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#rockbox log for 2005-09-11

00:07:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:15:48 Quit DangerousDan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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13:24:20linuxstbCan anyone help with my archos compile problem I mentioned in IRC yesterday (at about 16:00)? The linking of rockbox.elf fails with "error: no memory region specified for loadable section `.rela.dyn'"
13:25:43linuxstbI'm using gcc 3.3.6 and binutils-cvs from about 3 weeks ago. Is it simply a binutils problem and I should install 2.16.tar.gz ?
13:27:27amiconnHmm, I didn't encounter this a single time, but then I always used release binutils
13:27:36amiconn(2.16 atm, 2.15 before)
13:28:35linuxstbThe same binutils version works fine on the iriver - but I think there are different .lds files used.
13:29:30amiconnThe "source" .lds is the same, but it is preprocessed to build the .lds used for actual linking
13:30:05amiconnI use binutils 2.16 for both SH1 and coldfire
13:30:32amiconnI know the latest is 2.16.1, but did not yet try it
13:31:11linuxstbOK, I'll try the release 2.16 first - just to make sure it's not a different problem with my installation. But I'm not sure what else it could be.
13:38:31linuxstbWhat's the aspect ratio for an Archos Recorder LCD - i.e. if I want a square 6 pixels high, what width should I use? I seem to remember someone saying it doesn't have square pixels.
13:39:19amiconnThe aspect of the archos LCD is 0.8; the pixels are taller than wide
13:40:53amiconnYou would need a width of 7.5 pixels to make an exact square ;)
13:41:04linuxstbThat's what I thought :(
13:41:16amiconnThis is for Sudoky I presume?
13:41:38linuxstbI'm in the process of making it work on the Archos.
13:41:55amiconnYou need 9 rows, correct?
13:42:07amiconnThat would allow for 7 pixels per row
13:42:07linuxstbI'm guessing the simulator doesn't adapt for the aspect ratio?
13:42:17amiconnNo, it doesn't
13:42:54amiconnYou can do that with the Win32 sim, but the scaling looks a bit rough
13:43:15linuxstbI need 9 rows. If I use gridlines (10 lines in each direction), then it only leaves 6 pixels inside each cell.
13:43:40amiconnYes, inside are 6 pixels
13:44:05linuxstbI also need to somehow indicate the 3x3 subgrids - so I'm planning solid lines for the 3x3 grids, and dotted lines for the 1x1 grids.
13:44:06amiconnIf you can use the Win32 sim, you can build a version that does aspect correction.
13:44:31amiconnuisimulator/win32/uisw32.h does contain the GUI position #defines
13:44:50amiconnLook at line 62 and 64, the comments say what to do...
13:45:11linuxstbI could try the win32 sim, but I've got an Archos recorder, so I'll just install the correct binutils and test on the real device. I need to do that anyway.
13:45:20amiconn..for fm recorder. You'll also find the values for recorder and Ondio
13:46:03linuxstbSo is the aspect ratio different for different archos devices? I thought the sizes were the same.
13:46:21amiconnThey are the same, just the gui layout is different
13:46:39amiconnIt's the exact same lcd type (except for the player of course)
13:46:51linuxstbAre you just talking about the sims being different?
13:47:11amiconnThe position of the LCD within the GUI window differs
13:49:29amiconnThis bug: is an all-platform bug, I just verified it
13:49:40*amiconn goes bug-hunting
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14:07:32***No seen item changed, no save performed.
14:08:12 Join zhilik [0] (
14:09:33zhilikI've scanned the insides of my HD200 and am a bit puzzled with where to upload them.
14:12:28ashridahHD200 ?
14:12:48zhilikMPIO HD200 - it's a 5Gb MP3 player.
14:30:01Bagderzhilik: put them in a wiki page
14:30:41Bagderthere's an "attach" in the bottom of each page
14:31:01zhilikAnd into what topic? Or should I create a new one?
14:31:09Bagdercreate a new one
14:31:28Bagdergotta go!
14:33:10zhilikOk. But.. Stupid question: how do I create a new topic?
14:33:53Maximeand click Create ^^
14:43:34zhilikThanks - it seems I got the idea.
14:43:49zhilikI'll post a link after I upload the scans.
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15:27:39 Quit webguest74 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
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15:39:09zhilikHere it is:
15:40:48preglowooh, 5249
15:41:45preglowi do think jpegs would have prompted more people to download, though, six megs is pretty hefty for a picture ;)
15:42:01zhilikWell, it is 1200 DPI
15:42:16preglowbut nice scans
15:42:20Bagderyou could put up lores versions too
15:42:30*amiconn won't better not have a look at it now
15:42:44amiconnI'm currently on a 56K modem connection...
15:42:44zhilikYeah, I noticed - the microcontroller a memory are in BGA's :-(
15:42:44preglowBagder: iriver uses what socket?
15:42:53amiconngtg, cu later
15:43:00Bagderbga, iirc
15:43:03 Part amiconn
15:43:16preglowyes, we do
15:43:18BagderLinus removed them completely when he measured them
15:43:25preglowthat's the only socket capable of 140mhz on that coldfire rev
15:43:42zhilikOK, i'll convert them to JPG
15:43:48preglowdo so
15:43:56preglownot too heavily compressed, but itll still help tons
15:46:00zhilikIt's uploading...
15:48:04zhilikWell... I wonder how do I remove a BGA microcontroller without destroying it? And after that, how do I put it back?
15:48:19zhilikAnd my player IS on a guarantee... :-)
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15:50:42zhilikI've uploaded the JPEG versions
15:50:56preglowyou don't put it back with any ease
15:52:06zhilikThat's what I thought :-(
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16:07:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:13:41linuxstbAnyone know if there is a function to draw a dotted line in Rockbox?
17:18:52preglowcan't say i do
17:41:27preglowwoe is me
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18:54:10linuxstbWould there be any objections to adding the menu functions to the plugin API? Was there a reason it wasn't done for Rockboy?
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19:46:21amiconnlinuxstb: The menu functions aren't in the api because no plugin uses them so far. The rockboy guys preferred to do their own for whatever reason (and for iriver only)
19:46:43amiconnI'm all for putting them in as soon as a plugin needs them
19:47:19amiconnIn fact I want to convert all the odd button combos of the viewer into a nice option menu for a long time....
20:00:37 Quit Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house")
20:07:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:09:26linuxstbI'm using it the menus for Sudoku. I could probably live with out them, but I prefer a nice menu instead of unintuitive button assignments.
20:09:52 Join webguest93 [0] (
20:10:22webguest93is it me or are the output levels on the latest build much much lower?
20:14:04CoCoLUSsounds normal to me
20:14:09linuxstbJust for the record, my Archos build went fine after I installed binutils-2.16. So there seems to be a problem with the latest binutils cvs and the SH1 Rockboxes
20:14:17webguest93the iriver build
20:14:22webguest93the line out is much lower
20:15:16 Join ep0ch [0] (n=ep0ch@
20:16:14CoCoLUShm i just tested normal output
20:16:31linuxstbAre you sure your settings are still the same? They are quite often reset by daily builds.
20:16:58webguest93i use replaygain
20:18:27 Quit matsl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:22:49linuxstbwebguest93: What do you have set for the General Settings -> Playback -> ID3 tag priority option?
20:23:32webguest93v2 then v1
20:24:38linuxstbI've no idea what the problem is then.
20:25:38webguest93guess i'll go back to old build then
20:25:46webguest93sept 4 i was using before
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20:48:00webguest43hi ! could someone comment on the PCM recording ? I want to record a long choir performance in a few weeks, and would need to know how likely it is to crash/die/mess the recording up ?
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21:31:18preglowthe rockboy menu looks pretty neat
21:31:32 Quit DangerousDan ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
21:32:08preglowwebguest43: pretty hard to say, i think it's decent, though
21:32:26preglowbut as you've probably seen, it's in the debug menu, so...
21:33:54linuxstbYes, I agree the rockboy menu looks nice, but there are two major problems (unless I've missed something) - it doesn't adjust itself for the Archos displays, and it's limited to the number of menu items it can display on the screen (i.e. no scrolling).
21:34:44preglowi'd like to see skinable widgets once...
21:34:55preglowgranted, it means very little to me
21:35:16linuxstbwebguest43: Only way to know for sure it will do what you want is to do some tests. I seem to recall people saying it works well, but I've never tried it myself.
21:35:17preglowthink i'll see about adding wav writing now
21:35:53linuxstbIt's going to be chaos when we all try and commit our changes to CVS the minute after 2.5 is released...
21:36:02preglowyes, indeed
21:36:23preglowbut thats the nature of a feature freeze
21:36:51coobjust start a new branch?
21:37:02linuxstbpreglow: Yep, I'm not complaining.
21:38:10linuxstbcoob: That's probably more trouble than it's worth.
21:38:10preglowweird ogg bug
21:38:23linuxstbIs that the 25-minute bug?
21:38:26amiconnpreglow: Imho the feature freeze time should be primarily used for fixing bugs (that's why it's there). This isn't limited to certain platforms
21:38:27coobonly because cv sucks :)
21:39:03preglowamiconn: well, yeah, but that almost never happens there shouldn't be that many features delayed by the freeze. Most devs should be working on bugfixes ;)
21:39:18preglowall feature freezes i've seen have been like this
21:39:32preglowlinuxstb: yea
21:39:34amiconnI *am* working on fixing and improving things...
21:39:40preglowyes, you are
21:39:49preglowbut some people are also working on new things
21:40:15amiconnImho new features aren't worth a lot if the existing code has problems
21:40:25amiconnI don't mean minor problems...
21:40:39preglowfixing bugs is tons more boring than coding new things
21:41:17preglowi haven't done anything at all, so i cant say too much
21:41:28preglowbut that's for other reasons
21:41:33amiconnFor my part, I am still using my archoses way more than my iriver, because I don't like to carry paper clips around all the time
21:41:51preglowpft, you soon learn to improvise when it comes to reseting it ;)
21:42:22preglowso far i've used twigs, chocolate wrappers, pens, small stones and screwdrivers to reset it, hehe
21:42:24coobget an ipod, you don't need a apaper clip to reset them :)
21:42:30preglowcoob: how do you do it?
21:42:53amiconnUnfortunately I'm not really familiar with the iriver playback code, otherwise I would certainly try to improve stability
21:43:02amiconn(and remove a number of annoyances)
21:43:03coobpreglow: hold two keys
21:43:28amiconncoob: I don't need a paper clip to reset an archos either, apart from that it is almost never necessary to do that
21:43:56amiconnThe archos has a hardware override for poweroff, just hold the Off button long enough
21:44:52amiconnThe old archoses (player and recorder v1) even have such a short hardware poweroff timeout that we cannot finish housekeeping if a user shuts down the hard way
21:44:58amiconnJust one second...
21:45:18amiconnThe newer ones (fm/v2 recorder, Ondios) have a 10-second timeout
21:45:53SlasheriHmm, i haven't need to reset iriver for a long time when using it on the field
21:46:21amiconnpreglow: Yes I know your creativity when it comes to resetting the iriver, but I don't want to risk my reset button breaking
21:46:28coobhows battery life on the iriver under rockbox?
21:46:53amiconnSlasheri: All days I tried using my iriver "for real" I had to reset at least 1..2 times
21:47:14Slasheriamiconn: hmm, that's weird.. do you know what caused it to crash/hang?
21:47:28amiconnI know a number of reproducable ways
21:47:37amiconnOne is loading a .cfg while playing music
21:48:08Slasherihehe, i haven't never tried that
21:48:21amiconnThat's the one happening most of the time to me
21:48:37Slasherioh, i will try to fix that soon (maybe tomorrow)
21:48:43ep0chloading a .cfg while playing worked for me :s
21:48:48Slasheriplease tell the other bugs also if you know any
21:49:10amiconnI start playback, notice I've loaded the wrong config (e.g. last used it with earphones, but now in the car) and try to load e.g. car.cfg => eek!
21:49:58amiconnSlasheri: Another one is e.g. trying to resume a track that's no longer on the disk
21:50:56 Join muesli- [0] (i=muesli_t@
21:50:58amiconnA related annoyance is the removal of non-existent tracks from the playlist. "Dear rockbox, please don't mess with my playlist. It's *my* playlist, not yours. Thanks."
21:51:41Slasheriamiconn: I am going to fix that track removing/skipping issue soon
21:52:18amiconnAnother (not rockbox related) deficiency of the H1x0 is that radio reception is worse than on the Ondio FM, although they use the same radio chip
21:52:41amiconn(Tested in the sampe place, using the same earphone wire as the antenna)
21:52:43Slasherithanks about that resume bug too, these are hard to try without knowing what to try
21:53:42amiconnI'll try to do more H1x0 work after the freeze
21:54:13Slasherihehe, i have also something to commit after the freeze is over :)
21:54:32amiconnMaybe I'll do a little thing right now, need to improve my coldfire assembler practise...
21:54:54 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
21:54:54Slasheribut now sleep, c u ->
21:55:58*amiconn has *no* pending work that needs to wait until after the freeze
21:57:03linuxstb_amiconn: What's different with your config settings when you switch them on your iriver?. It seems that not every config change causes Rockbox to crash.
21:58:11amiconnSound settings, display settings, voice ui
21:58:24linuxstb_That narrows it down :)
21:58:44linuxstb_Can you remember if you had the problem before the voice UI was introduced?
21:58:58amiconnI don't know
21:59:16amiconn...didn't encounter it, but then use it even less often
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22:07:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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22:15:16linuxstbVoice UI doesn't seem to cause the iriver to crash if that's the only config file difference.
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22:53:00 Quit hubbel ()
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23:28:01 Part ep0ch
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