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#rockbox log for 2005-09-13

00:00:05Mojitobut i think its much easier than assambler.. or similar
00:00:09stripwaxbest to just write some C instead ..
00:01:01muesli-n8 m8s
00:01:23HClMojito: you'd need to write a j2me virtual machine.
00:01:27HClfor the iriver.
00:01:38stripwaxHCl - hm, thought I'd already said that ;-)
00:01:48HClstripwax: yea but i got the impression he didn't understand
00:02:04HClbecause the assembler statement afterwards doesn't make sense
00:02:22Mojitomuesli, are you still there?
00:02:56stripwaxHCl - I figured mojito was just saying 'java is easier than assembler' and I was saying, why not just use C, since most of rockbox is written in C..
00:03:10HClC isn't much harder than java at all
00:03:15HClthe only thing C lacks is OO
00:03:18Mojitoso i missunderstood
00:03:19HClwhich can be annoying at times.
00:03:55Mojitoif i want code for rockbox i need to know c, and not assambler?
00:04:06Mojitook ;)
00:05:11Mojitomy idea was, that i perhaps j2me is much better for jukeboxes, because its very good for manage the low konw, what kind of games you can play at your mobile phone without good hardware
00:05:33HClas much as i like java
00:05:41HCli still don't believe its good for low-resource devices.
00:06:26Mojitobut j2me is especilly for low-resource devices ;)
00:06:34Mojitoyou dont think its good?
00:06:40HClno i don't, heh.
00:06:42stripwaxMojito - mm, you know, C and assembler are much better for jukeboxes. Because even if you write an application in java, at the end of the day, you're running a java interpreter and virtual machine, which have been written in C or assembler... so why not just cut out the middleman and write directly in C or asm?
00:06:45Mojitook ;)
00:06:48 Join [1]Moos [0] (
00:07:02HCli think you're forgetting that you have to write a java bytecode compiler for the motorola coldfire platform first
00:07:08Mojitoehe, ok stripwax thats a argument ;)
00:07:24 Quit [1]Moos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:07:32 Join [1]Moos [0] (
00:07:32Mojitomy problem is, that i've studied only java yet
00:07:43HClJIT compiling will never be as fast as hand written /optimized C code
00:07:52stripwaxMojito - and I really don't think java is any better at resource management than C/asm - other than that fact that a java programmer doesn't need to understand memory management
00:08:03Mojitoand i'm very interessed in coding for perhaps rockbox
00:08:08 Quit Moos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:08:08 Nick [1]Moos is now known as Moos (
00:08:11HClyou don't want to run a garbage collector either, heh.
00:08:13stripwaxMojito - you'd do well to learn C then..
00:08:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:08:29stripwaxHCl heh
00:08:42Mojitoi had learned also c++ a bit some years ago ;)
00:08:56stripwaxcan you remember the C bits? ;-)
00:09:05Mojitoi? no
00:09:26Mojitoi think could understand the c code, if i know java?
00:09:48Mojitoby the way, where do you come from? germany?
00:10:01Mojitoi speak not very well english..
00:10:04stripwaxYou could probably get a feel for the C code if you know java −− but you'd probably really only understand the C code if you understand C ...
00:10:04XavierGrlook some of the code and tell us if you understand anything
00:10:11Mojitosorry for that
00:10:14Mojitoi've to study ;)
00:10:46Mojitoso on the rockbox homepage is written that i should downlaod cygwin
00:11:01XavierGrto compile rockbox go here:
00:11:18Mojitothis is an independent ide ?
00:11:29stripwaxSo- anyone ever tried returning a rockbox-modified iriver for repairs under warranty?
00:11:35stripwaxMojito - "independent" ?
00:12:09stripwaxMojito - do you know what unix is?
00:12:26XavierGrstripwax: yeah I meant you. Did you broke yours?
00:12:33Mojitoyes i think so ;)
00:13:23stripwaxXavierGr ah ok. yep. one-too-many shoves in the reset button, and something broke inside (some tiny component with "ST" written on it .. ). I've put it back together and called iriver Europe .. wonder if they'll refuse repair because Rockbox is installed...
00:13:45Mojitowith independent i mean, its not required to look at the rockbox code? can i use any other ide for c?
00:13:55XavierGrhmm man that is bad?
00:14:05 Join whistlerbrk [0] (
00:14:15XavierGrso you can't even turn it on to reflash to the old firmware?
00:14:21stripwaxMojito ok well, cygwin is a unix-like environment that runs on Windows. You can use standard development tools that normally run on unix, that have been built for cygwin, to compile rockbox
00:14:37stripwaxMojito - if you want to *look* at rockbox code, you can use a webbrowser ;-)
00:14:39Mojitoah ok, i understand! :)
00:15:05stripwaxXavierGr - yeah, that's right ;-( ;-(
00:15:20Mojitoi was only wondering, because with notepad i cant open the *.c files
00:15:29stripwaxI bet you can use Wordpad instead
00:15:37XavierGrnormaly you can
00:15:46stripwaxnotepad doesn't respect the unix line-endings
00:15:48XavierGrOR notepad2!!!!
00:15:54XavierGrit is so cool!
00:15:58stripwaxOr anything, really, except notepad
00:16:17stripwaxmsdev is quite a good editor ;-)
00:16:34Mojitofor example: ill get lovely "I04: IllInstr" errors... :-) */
00:16:34Mojito rb = api;
00:16:34Mojito#ifndef SIMULATOR
00:16:34DBUGEnqueued KICK Mojito
00:16:34Mojito rb->memcpy(iramstart, iramcopy, iramend-iramstart);
00:16:50Mojitoin my editor (notepad)
00:16:59Mojitoi see strange symbols
00:17:12stripwaxyeah so like i said, don't use notepad ..
00:17:18Mojitobut when i copy and pasted it here, they become normal code
00:17:21stripwaxnotepad is THE WORST EDITOR EVER for programming
00:17:29Mojitoyes ;)
00:17:40stripwaxMojito - no, it's not strange. it's exactly what I just said - notepad doesn't respect the line-endings for unix files
00:17:44Mojitoi konw, i should change to linux ;)
00:17:58Mojitook stripwax i understand :)
00:18:09stripwaxor just use an editor that understands "LF means end of line", e.g. wordpad. which you already have installed.
00:18:15XavierGrno you can use just a different word proccessor.
00:18:40Mojitoi've opened it with firefox ;)
00:18:49XavierGranyway good night all!
00:18:51 Quit XavierGr ()
00:19:13Mojitoi remember 5 years ago, when i saw the first jukebox the first time in tv...
00:19:18 Quit muesli- (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:19:19stripwaxMojito - yeah - seriously- anything other than Notepad will work. notepad is probably the only thing that won't work.
00:19:24Mojitoi think it was a creative one with 6 gb
00:19:42Mojitostripwax, ok so i forget notepad ;)
00:20:41Mojitoand the price was about 600 $,.. i thought, i need a jukebox... its great. and now 5 years later i looked again
00:20:47 Quit adiamas ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.6/20050716]")
00:20:55stripwaxthe new iriver U10 looks stunning
00:21:05Mojitoand the most people in the internet says that iriver is one of the best :)
00:21:39Mojitoso i choosed the iriver h340, good choice?
00:21:41stripwaxI don't understand why the H10 series can't play ogg files though! :-)
00:22:18stripwaxMojito - yeah, very good choice. You can even take it apart and fit a extra long life battery and a 60GB hard drive. Of course I couldn't possibly recommend that ... ;-)
00:22:43Mojitoi would try that in 2 years
00:22:56Mojitowhen the warranty is lost ;)
00:23:10stripwaxOh. Heh. I've just re-read the U10 description, it's only 2GB! what a crazy idea, QVGA screen, docking station, and only 2gb
00:23:33Mojitoi saw also at a friend the new PSP
00:23:37Mojitoplaystation protable
00:23:41Mojitoits very great
00:23:48Mojitohuge display
00:23:55Mojitoand good hardware
00:24:03stripwaxYeah, played one at the weekend. UMS is such a weird idea though
00:24:10Mojitobut you can put only flash memory in it
00:24:14Mojitowith max 4 gb
00:24:30stripwaxer, I mean UMD.
00:24:38Mojitoand i need a harddrive wich minimum 40 gb
00:25:07Mojitoso its not an alternative for the h340
00:25:50Mojitoso you konw, if rockbox is finish for the h340, it could also manage more than 9999 files?
00:26:09stripwaxof course
00:26:10Mojitoi read that the h340 has a limit
00:26:24Mojitoand i have yet 7000 mp3s
00:26:32stripwaxyeah - because it can only display four numbers in a row, so the highest number is 9999. it's dumb.
00:26:34Mojitothey are 30 gb
00:26:35 Quit markun ()
00:26:47stripwaxrockbox doesn't have any limit
00:27:01Mojitoso perhaps you have more thatn 9999 files with less than 40 gb
00:27:05Mojitogood :)
00:27:25Mojitoand i hope that rockbox can play also divx4
00:28:01Mojitoavi files are possible to play with the h340 right?
00:28:13Mojitobut first you have to convered them?
00:28:14stripwaxMojito - that is much less likely - I think it is likely you will need to transcode your files to a different format first.
00:28:22stripwaxyeah, you need to convert them first
00:28:40Mojitobut how many times it will take to convert them?
00:28:43Mojitoin real time?
00:28:56Mojitoand what is a about the size of the files?
00:29:30Mojitoit would be much easier to copy only the avi file or mpeg file at the h340 and play them :)
00:29:33stripwaxI have no idea, sorry. What does it say on ?
00:29:49stripwaxMojito - it would be easier, but I don't think the h340 has the computing power to do that
00:29:52Mojitoi'vent found yet a post about that theme
00:30:01Mojitonot? mhm
00:30:06 Quit DangerousDan ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
00:30:28Mojitoi thought it is a very powerful device ;)
00:30:39stripwaxMojito - there's an entire forum all about video on the h340 ... !
00:30:56Mojitook i look, thank you !
00:31:16Mojitoaaaah i didnt see that
00:32:38CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
00:32:38*stripwax has just spent a couple of hours arranging his CDs in order by their colour ...
00:32:39Mojitoi spoke with some friends
00:32:49Mojitoand all of them think ipod is good
00:32:59flurbledoes ipod play oggs yet?
00:33:20Mojitothey would prefer ipod, particularly the ipod nano
00:33:29stripwaxMojito - ipod can't do gapless, can't play oggs, can't play music that's drag-and-dropped onto it, and doesn't work with open software (i.e. you have to use iTunes, and iTunes is a piece of crap)
00:33:33Mojitothey dont know what ogg is ;)
00:33:56stripwaxipod nano serves a purpose. so does ipod shuffle. i guess. </shrug>
00:34:47Mojitobut why do all the people think that ipod is so good??
00:34:51Mojitoi cant imagine
00:34:51stripwaxall my music is in ogg, even before I thought about buying a portable mp3 player. i made pretty much the only choice I could make, fortunately it turned out to be a pretty good choice. My girlfriend bought a Rio Karma, which I actually think is better than the iriver ihp-120
00:35:10stripwaxMojito - no idea. maybe because they've Seen The Adverts and Bono Said It Was Rock And Roll.
00:35:30stripwaxMojito - or maybe it's because it's the only mp3 player they can remember the name of? ;-)
00:35:40 Quit ender` (Connection timed out)
00:36:19flurbleipod is pretty? and has a funky spinny wheel thing?
00:36:32Mojitoi read a good post about that... apple put their money to pay u2 and iriver put their money to pay the developer ;)
00:37:16Mojitoi read a lot gapless, but what does it mean??
00:37:22Mojitoi cant translate to german :(
00:37:43linuxstbNo extra silence between tracks - i.e. it plays like the original CD
00:38:15Mojitobut i've read often, that iriver h340 put 2 secounds silence between the files
00:38:45Mojitois that information wrong?
00:38:48linuxstbI've no experience of iriver's firmware - but gapless is a software issue. Rockbox is gapless.
00:39:20stripwaxMojito - iriver h340 does put a small gap of silence between each track. That's why I no longer use the iriver firmware but use rockbox instead
00:39:54Mojitobut there isnt yet a rockbox version for the h3x0
00:40:15stripwaxthis is true. but i don't have a h3x0, i have an h120
00:40:44Mojitoand why could rockbox play gapless and the original firmware not??
00:40:56linuxstbBecause it was designed that way.
00:41:07stripwaxMojito - because iriver developers weren't paid enough? ;-)
00:41:08Mojitoyes, but they do not for style
00:41:15Mojitostripwax i think so ;)
00:41:30linuxstbIMO, gapless isn't a bug that can be fixed, the playback engine needs to be designed that way from the start.
00:41:32stripwaxMojito - all the more reason to make a donation to rockbox ;-)
00:41:55stripwaxlinuxstb - yes, but I'm stunned that iriver didn't
00:41:59Mojitoare rockbox coder much better than the offical of iriver???
00:42:06MoosI bet is a commercial issue ;)
00:42:27stripwaxMoos - really? like what? i can't think of any reason why 'not gapless' is commercially better than 'gapless'
00:42:31Mojitoi thought also about the h120
00:42:49Mojitobut the h1xx series hasnt a 40gb harddriver or?
00:43:09stripwaxMojito - rockbox coders work for 'free' and keep on developing until everything is 100% perfect. iriver coders work to deadlines and are finished when their product department says so
00:43:12Moosstripwax: if you do the best player that you can at start, it will be hard to sell others models in the futurs
00:43:18stripwaxMojito - what, like the IHP-140 aka H140?
00:43:37stripwaxMoos - how does that explain that the H10 20gb player doesn't even support ogg?
00:43:46stripwaxor that the U10 (which looks loverly) has only 2GB?
00:43:59Mooshehe good question ;)
00:44:20linuxstbRockbox's biggest advantage is that it is a single code-base for multiple players. Companies like iriver seem to start again with each new device.
00:44:41NiliscoDoes the guy working on the iaudio x5 ever stop by in here?
00:44:45Moosstripwax: maybe for there are peoples who buy mutiples players
00:45:11stripwaxlinuxstb - not sure that's true. ifp and ihp players do seem very similar (or at least in terms of functionality and user interface - of course the underlying hardware is different but maybe no more so than archos vs ihp)
00:46:28linuxstbBut if they had a single code-base, they could easily release updates for their older players - in the same way Rockbox keeps support fot the first Archos devices.
00:46:40stripwaxlinuxstb - there's no incentive for them to do so
00:46:44Mojitoi couldnt find the h140 and ihp-140 at the iriver homepage
00:46:46Mojitoits old?
00:47:07Moosrare in the market
00:47:07stripwaxMojito - I got my h120 nearly two years ago. still sell h140
00:47:22linuxstbThe incentive should be a good reputation for supportting their products.
00:47:27flurbleI got my h140 in january
00:47:52MoosiHp140 here since ~2 years too
00:47:56stripwaxlinuxstb - they do support their products for a year or so after release (or at least they used to, not sure of their recent behaviour)
00:48:06stripwax^support^release new firmware/features
00:48:19 Quit ashridah (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:48:30linuxstbThere is no way I would have bought an iriver if Rockbox didn't exist - because of their reputation for not fixing bugs.
00:49:21Moosbut very stable firmware
00:49:22stripwaxlinuxstb - i can't think of any bugs in ihp series that are real bugs. I think iriver do a pretty good job of fixing actual bugs
00:49:40MoosI think so
00:50:13linuxstbThere's the famous recording glitch for a start.
00:50:29Mooshehe :D
00:50:45Moosnot very critical
00:51:04stripwaxok. good point. recording was of course one of the reasons I chose the iriver..
00:51:11Mojitoi've to go know to bed, its late.. good night! see you, and thank you for the nice chat! :)
00:51:30linuxstbI can't really argue because I never use the iriver firmware. But it's just the impression I get from occasionally browsing mistic river.
00:51:38Mojitoi'm very excited for tomorrow! hopefully i'll get the h340 :)))
00:51:42stripwaxSometimes I wonder if iriver developers are actually just 'a bit deaf' - they don't seem to acknowledge the recording glitch or the lack-of-gapless as problems..
00:51:47stripwaxMojito cool
00:52:09Mojitoi sold 350 euro at amazon
00:52:14Mojitogood price, isnt it?
00:52:46Mooslinuxstb: very stable firmware, not the same ergonomie but stable
00:52:56Moosthan Rb :)
00:53:10stripwaxhrm.. sounds expensive. I've seen them for 179 in uk
00:53:33stripwaxOh, wait, no- that was h140.
00:53:39Mojitook ;)
00:53:51Mojitobecause that was the lowest price i saw...
00:53:54Moosyes ~the same price than h140 :)
00:54:21Mojitobut its without, that station and the remote control
00:54:26stripwaxWhat's 350 in ?
00:54:31flurblewhat's 350 euro in ... yeah, that ?
00:54:43Mojito350 euro is about 350 $ ;)
00:55:04flurble 350 euro = 236.28098 GBP
00:55:06Moosbut GBP?
00:55:30stripwaxMojito - k so 350 is a good price!
00:55:35Mojito:) good!
00:55:59Mojitoi'm very happy that there is a so huge community about the iriver and other jukeboxes :)
00:56:27Mojitogood n8!
00:56:32stripwax235 gets you a second hand H340 on ebay ;-)
00:56:32 Quit Mojito ()
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00:58:47 Join webguest23 [0] (
00:58:56webguest23Hello all
00:59:07webguest23I've got a quick question please
00:59:37webguest23I read the log and I see you said foobar is the best for transcoding, right?
01:00:23webguest23do you know plugin for transcoding mp3−−>mp3 higher bitrate?
01:00:36flurbleis that possible?
01:01:03webguest23I'm wondering, I think yes
01:01:08linuxstbWhat do you want to achieve by that?
01:01:20webguest23quality improuvment
01:01:21zeyou'll lose quality
01:01:38stripwaxhow would transcoding from low bitrate to high bitrate mp3 help?
01:01:46zethe quality's already lost with the low-bitrate encoding
01:01:49linuxstbYou need to go back to the source CD and encode to a highter bitrate.
01:01:55zeyou can't regain it except with the original source
01:02:15webguest23the problem is this, I don't have the source :(
01:02:25stripwaxthen you are stuck with a low bitrate mp3
01:02:32webguest23and transcoding on other format?
01:02:36zethen you either have to obtain it, or find a better quality copy
01:02:45zeany kind of reencoding will only lose quality further
01:03:08webguest23ok :(
01:03:13stripwaxwebguest23 - how can converting a bad mp3 into anything result in a better quality mp3?
01:03:19 Quit webguest23 (Client Quit)
01:03:24 Join webguest23 [0] (
01:03:47zethere may be some tricks to make it sound better though
01:03:48webguest23is this what I want to know
01:04:01zewhile still technically losing quality
01:04:26webguest23if I understand good, any possibly way?
01:04:52zei once got a 22.5khz mp3
01:05:02zeand resampling it to 44.1khz made it sound better somehow
01:05:02stripwaxze - what do you have in mind? filtering might do this, but then you don't need a higher bitrate, you just need to filter it
01:05:22zei can't really explain that, but it did heh
01:05:50zei think i'm forgetting some other element of it too though
01:06:37zethis was quite a while ago, maybe 97 or so
01:06:49zeso i don't recall exactly
01:06:50flurbleah, technology's gone downhill since then
01:07:00stripwaxback then, mp3 encoders were pretty awful, so i'm not too surprised
01:07:01webguest23brb I'm despaired
01:07:02linuxstbOne trick with low bitrate sources is to play them and re-record via an analogue state. The noise introduced will actually improve the sound.
01:07:02stripwaxflurble hehehe
01:07:07zepff i was on dos and using fraunhoffer :p
01:07:30zelinuxstb: there is that
01:07:48stripwaxlinuxstb - really? i thought low-bitrate mp3 encoders would introduce twinkling artifacts from the noise, wouldn't that make it sound worse?
01:07:50linuxstbI don't know if there's a DSP equivalent;.
01:08:04webguest23ok thanks guys for the help, have a good night
01:08:08zemaybe a combination of filters, resampling, good analog stage
01:08:08 Quit webguest23 (Client Quit)
01:08:42linuxstbAn example I'm aware of is a 64kbps Realaudio webcast - I listened to two independent recordings - one a pure capture of the RM stream, and another recorded via an analogue soundcard. The latter sounded better.
01:08:49zeor really you wouldn't necessarily need the resampling other than the fact that you're sampling again after the analog stage
01:08:55stripwaxalthough, i guess, if you're reconverting to a higher bitrate anyway, then maybe it's true
01:09:13stripwaxze yeah - it sounds possible
01:09:41linuxstbThis is why I think lots of people prefer analogue FM to digital radio - noise in the high frequencies sound more natural than complete silence.
01:09:48zeof course the whole way through you're losing quality technically, but gaining on a non-discerning perceptual level heh
01:09:50stripwaxequivalent effect to digital zoom looking artifical but digital zoom + artifical grain looking more realistic, I suppose
01:10:56stripwaxok guys, gotta go. gnight all
01:11:00 Part stripwax
01:14:36Moosgood night too :)
01:14:42 Part Moos
01:17:42 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC")
01:21:39 Join linuxstb [0] (
01:34:00whistlerbrkis there an XML standard for music metadata?
01:37:24ze24bit/96khz compactflash/microdrive wav/mp3 portable recorder w/ balanced inputs and built-in phantom-powered mic pre
01:38:46 Quit dpassen1 ()
01:39:30linuxstbwhistlerbrk: I am sure there are lots and lots of standards.
01:40:43 Join mianpe [0] ( have one - e.g.
01:42:00linuxstbBetter example:
01:42:57whistlerbrkwow thx
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02:05:42linuxstbIf anyone's interested in testing my work-in-progress Sudoku plugin (it's working for both iriver and Archos), you can get it at
02:06:10linuxstbApply the patch to the current Rockbox CVS, copy sudoku.c to the apps/plugins directory and compile.
02:07:02linuxstbIt works as a viewer for ".ss" files - I've included two .ss files, you can download some more from
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02:29:37mianpelinuxstb... very cool I just discovered sudoku's last week and rockbox today. I'll definetely grab it and try it out when I get some time.
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04:38:00DarkShadowI'm new to rockbox, but I've been following it for a while, and tonight I finally got it on my H120, but I have a slight problem.
04:38:15DarkShadow...and no, it's more than run-on sentences.
04:39:01DarkShadowI put on two WPS (skins) things, and the layout changes, but the bitmap doesn't work.
04:39:05DarkShadowIt just has the text.
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05:33:46DarkShadowHey, is anyone here yet?
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06:54:51amiconnGoood morning :)
07:02:26*amiconn just found that he was silly
07:03:03LinusNpity you were the last to find out... :-)
07:03:04amiconnThis last table is wrong because of this:
07:03:33amiconn32, 48, 56 and 80 kbps are forbidden with layer2 stereo
07:04:12amiconnSo the MAS is even a bit better than the standard, as it plays 80 kbps (unless it's 48kHz)
07:05:17amiconn...and it seems I need to test the other channel modes...
07:06:14amiconn(at least mono)
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07:58:54*amiconn doesn't find info that's supposed to be somewhere on the net :(
07:59:58LinusN"somewhere on the net" :-)
08:00:17amiconnI remember having read somewhere that the bitrate of the xing header frame *should* be the closest match for the average bitrate of the stream
08:00:30LinusNthat's news to me
08:01:45amiconnI'm not sure either, so I'm looking for confirmation.
08:01:51LinusNafaik, the bitrate of the xing header shouldn't matter at all
08:02:43amiconnIirc this is for non-xing-aware players, in order to make the playtime computation "approximately" correct
08:03:19LinusNfair enough, as long as the toc fits
08:03:36LinusNi don't think it's a requirement though
08:05:52amiconn[08:00:17] <amiconn> ... *should* be ...
08:08:10LinusNnot a bad idea though, i think we should do that
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08:31:08amiconnLinusN: Now I found where I read this. It's in at the very bottom, and is related to the lame tag (which is in turn an extension to the xing header)
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09:11:56amiconnLinusN: Another interesting detail: The file size in the xing header is neither the complete file size, nor only the playable data size.
09:12:23amiconnIt includes the xing header size, but excludes the id3 tags (v1 and v2)
09:12:40amiconnAt least lame does write it that way
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09:17:42linuxstbDoes excluding the tag size have the advantage that tags can be edited (and deleted/added) by tools not aware of the xing header?
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09:33:43webguest24any date set for the release?
09:34:07webguest24i like rockbox very much, use it on the iriver.
09:34:27webguest24besides a freeze here and then, very good work.
09:37:14ashridahwebguest24: you realise 2.5 won't be a stable iriver release
09:37:47ashridah(although it will mean active development can resume :) )
09:37:56webguest24yes. but the feature-freeze also is for the iriver, isn't it?
09:38:08webguest24yes, that's what i meant
09:38:44webguest24i don't know if this is a known bug:
09:39:00webguest24i worked whit a large playlist. lots of saving, changing etc.
09:39:24webguest24suddenly rockbox shortened my playlist to 5 or 10 tracks
09:39:35webguest24maybe a bad track that i inserted...
09:40:09webguest24too bad i noticed it AFTER i saved it...
09:40:34ashridahi've had that. removed a track from a playlist and half of it vanished
09:41:03webguest24pretty bad if you spent a lot of time creating a party-playlist or something
09:41:24webguest24but not a show stopper....
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09:45:53webguest24about the iriver: when is the display of the remote supported?
09:46:21B4gderwhen someone writes the code to do it
09:47:19 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC")
09:47:27webguest24ok... is there any work in progress? i know theres a patch for it.
09:47:43B4gderthe patch is outdated, and not done "properly"
09:47:57B4gderafaik, nobody works on it
09:48:19B4gderxaviergr (who made the remote patch) said that we planned to write his effort again from scratch
09:48:28B4gderso possibly that can become something
09:48:44LinusNB4gder: s/we/he/
09:49:05B4gderhe planned
09:49:14B4gderhe haid he planned it
09:49:17B4gderhe said
09:49:34*B4gder should join a typing class
09:49:44webguest24ok, so it seems i would have to do it myself if i want it...
09:49:57webguest24to bad im not a C champion...
09:50:10B4gderor wait until someone else does it
09:50:20B4gdersomeone _will_ do it eventually I'm quite sure
09:50:32webguest24ok, maybe that would be a nice c programming exercise B-)
09:50:47linuxstb_Is there a page anywhere for known bugs on the iriver?
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09:51:23B4gderlinuxstb_: nope
09:51:50webguest24 you could have a look there
09:52:05B4gderyes, that's all reported bugs
09:52:40linuxstb_What do you think - a Wiki page or perhaps a new category of bugs - "iriver" ?
09:52:50LinusNbut we don't yet accept official bug reports for the iriver
09:53:20B4gderwe should either do the wiki or accept reports, I guess
09:53:25linuxstb_I'm sure if there was an actual list of bugs (like the ReleaseTodo), more iriver devs would investigate. I know I would - but I've personally found the iriver bug-free in my own use.
09:53:29B4gderpossibly both
09:53:53B4gderI guess a wiki will be good
09:54:54linuxstb_There is already an IriverStatus page - which I started as a sort of ReleaseTodo page for the iriver
09:56:07B4gderah, yes
09:56:51B4gderlet's add known bugs there
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10:04:43*HCl yawns
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10:21:48linuxstb_Looking at IriverStatus, there are already some bugs entered there - but I don't think the page is linked to from very many places. Any objections to putting it in CategoryFrontPage ?
10:25:43B4gdernot from me
10:26:02B4gderI would say we can remove GminiPort from there
10:26:21B4gderIaudioPort would also be my candidate for removal from there
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10:40:32linuxstb_OK, I've added IriverStatus to the frontpage.
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10:42:04B4gderand I removed GminiPort from there
10:42:38linuxstb_amiconn: Would you be able to add any bugs you've found on the iriver to that page? I've added the cfg file loading bug just now.
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11:06:39amiconnlinuxstb_: Yes of course. I hope to be able to check some things again, then add them if they're still there
11:08:16 Join hshah [0] (
11:08:48hshahgood morning all...
11:09:08hshahjust a quick question - anyone know how to create a free irc channel like this one?
11:09:19B4gder /join #channel
11:09:40B4gderchannels are created if not already existing
11:09:51hshahahh rite, and then will they continue to exist
11:10:00hshahi want a chat room like this for my site...
11:10:01B4gderas long as people stay joined, yes long as anyone is in it
11:10:15hshahcan u put bots in it?
11:10:15B4gderand if nobody is there, there's no point to keep it
11:10:33B4gderhshah: a bot is just an automated client, so yes you can
11:10:57hshahi mean most the users would be on during day time (GMT) coz its a irc chat for university of warwick students in the uk
11:11:47hshahwhere am i meant to type this "/join #warwickforums" ?
11:11:55hshahi just tried it here and nothing happened
11:12:04Zagorthe web client is locked to this single room
11:12:13B4gderuse a real client instead
11:12:22hshahahh rite - ok lemme download mirc
11:13:35hshahnever really used irc b4 - so what server do i connect to?
11:15:04linuxstb_As we're off-topic, I would quite like to install an IRC server for internal use in the company I work for. Any recommendations for something easy and secure? (we have Linux servers)
11:15:19hshahim working at Novell :)
11:15:29hshahstupid firewalls r stopping me using mirc
11:16:34LinusNmirc is not a real client :-)
11:16:57hshahwell if mirc doesn't work, nothing else will
11:17:06hshahcan someone create #warwickforums for me please
11:17:25Zagorhshah: no point. it will stop existing as soon as we leave.
11:17:45hshahim setting up a webclient like this one now...
11:17:59hshahand somehow i will make a bot that will stay in there and keep it open
11:19:45hshahso can someone make #warwickforums for me please?
11:21:28hshahhmmm and how would u make like admins/operators etc?
11:21:57preglowi suggest you read a tutorial or something
11:21:57Zagorhshah: if you're not going to listen to our answers, please stop asking questions
11:32:28hshahok - im still confused about what to do... :(
11:34:13preglownothing hard
11:34:18preglowyou join the channel, and then somehow stay there
11:34:37preglowall the administrative duties like oping, kicking, etc, can be found out about a zillion places on the web
11:35:29linuxstb_If anyone's interested in trying out my Sudoku plugin, my current version is here:
11:36:02Zagorlinuxstb_: caught the fever, have you? ;)
11:36:23linuxstb_afriad so.
11:36:28preglowi never tried it
11:36:34preglowso dont think i'll start now
11:37:01linuxstb_It's also the perfect game for Rockbox - it uses almost zero CPU as most of the time the user is just thinking and staring at the screen.
11:37:29linuxstb_But you need good eyesight on the Archos LCDs.
11:39:40Zagorbut you'll want the backlight on constantly, I guess?
11:39:41*LinusN tries it
11:39:52linuxstb_Zagor: Yes, that's a drawback.
11:40:10preglowi wish the text viewer got that option soon
11:40:16Zagorwell, nobody expects the games to use no power
11:41:04linuxstb_The patch also adds the menu functions to the plugin API - I trust that's OK.
11:41:33Zagorfine with me. the api is meant to be extended over time.
11:42:05linuxstb_I started by copying Rockboy's menu routines, but they didn't work on the Archos.
11:42:58LinusNlinuxstb_: i think the "4" looks weird in the archos font
11:43:34linuxstb_I agree - I copied it from Minesweeper. I assume you mean the lack of a vertical bar above the horizontal one?
11:45:37linuxstb_Do you think the repeat speed is OK when adding a number? It's fixed to 1/3 of a second at the moment.
11:46:53linuxstb_I also can't think of a way to differentiate the "starting numbers" and "user numbers" on the Archos. On the iriver, I've given the starting numbers a light-grey background.
11:47:19amiconnZagor: Backlight is a non-issue on Ondio ;)
11:48:33amiconnOkay, maybe I'll do the backlight mod for Ondio one day
11:50:12LinusNlinuxstb_: starting numbers could have a solid border...
11:50:40LinusN(on the archos)
11:50:50linuxstb_That could work - I'll try it out.
11:52:42LinusNwould be cool to highlight the conflicting number when the check fails
11:55:02linuxstb_Yes. Or even as you are entering the numbers.
11:55:15LinusNeven cooler
11:55:42linuxstb_But how do I highlight on the archos?
11:56:52linuxstb_Possibly. But I would like to highlight the whole row/column/3x3 containing the conflict, instead of (or as well as) the other number.
11:57:44LinusNi think i would prefer to only highlight the individual cells
11:58:14linuxstb_I think I agree - that would be enough.
12:00:01LinusNrefreshingly simple file format
12:00:13amiconnlinuxstb_: Highlight on archos could be done by inverting
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12:01:00linuxstb_The cursor is currently inverted - I'm not sure if that would be confusing or not.
12:02:18hshah - ok so i have that setup, but it doesn't seem to connect...
12:03:46LinusNlinuxstb_: i must say that it looks really good
12:04:38linuxstb_Thanks. I've had a few weeks to tweak and refine it during the feature freeze.
12:05:25*LinusN tried the "solve" menu option :-(
12:06:30LinusNLOGF("Invalid sudoku file: %s\n",filename) is missing a semicolon
12:07:16linuxstb_Odd. My compiler didn't complain.
12:07:39linuxstb_I've fixed my copy now. Thanks.
12:07:44LinusNyou probably didn't have logf support configured
12:08:33linuxstb_I have a nice solver (GPL'd in C) which I will probably incorporate today.
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12:09:20linuxstb_The other feature I want to add before I would consider committing to CVS is the ability for the user to create a new game (by entering the starting numbers manually).
12:09:42linuxstb_Obviously a random game generator would be nice, but I think that will be non-trivial.
12:10:29LinusNi'm not sure, but wouldn't it be nice to not overwrite the original file when saving?
12:10:59linuxstb_I've thought about that a lot, but finally decided to overwrite the file. I couldn't think of any simple alternatives
12:11:37linuxstb_And what's the harm in overwriting the original? The user can always use the "clear board" option to clean it and then save the clean copy.
12:11:50linuxstb_I decided that I would create the .ss file, play it, and then delete it.
12:13:31 Quit hshah ("CGI:IRC")
12:14:37linuxstb_A feature I'm not sure about implementing is "auto-save" - so the current game is saved when you exit (and maybe when you plug in in USB).
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12:19:33Bger_cgiirchi all
12:20:22Bger_cgiircLinusN: iirc, 5249 has software watchdog timer. If i'm right, is there any reason of not using it?
12:20:46LinusNBger_cgiirc: yes, it's a pain in the *** :-)
12:21:33Bger_cgiirci think it could be usefor (especially for someone who has braked his reset button)
12:21:54LinusNlinuxstb_: check out how it is handled in viewer.c (default_event_handler_ex)
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12:25:43linuxstb_LinusN: Thanks - I'll use that.
12:26:54webguest63can anyone help me - - im trying to get that working but its just not connecting :(
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12:47:07LinusNamiconn: u there?
12:51:23 Join Maurice [0] (
12:51:31MauriceHello folks
12:51:54MauriceA very big thanks for all this Rockbox works
12:52:07B4gderMaurice: you're welcome
12:52:13Mauriceyou're the best firmware in the market ;)
12:52:19LinusNwe know :-)
12:52:25Mauriceand in your free time, respect
12:53:00MauriceI see the feature freeze is still here
12:53:16LinusNunfortunately yes
12:53:26MauriceAre they still critical bugs to fix before the end of?
12:53:36LinusNonly a few
12:54:08MauriceI suppose like evey time is you Linus and amiconn working on it
12:54:29Mauricenot a lot of bugs hunter here :D
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12:54:55hshahanyone good at irc here?
12:55:28Mauricenot me sorry
12:55:46B4gder"good at irc" meaning?
12:56:05hshahim still trying to make this bloody thing work
12:56:09hshahyes warwickforums
12:56:26hshah^ why won't it connect :'(, #cgiirc
12:56:34B4gderso read the docs or ask the guys who wrote the thing
12:56:35LinusNis that where you want to connect?
12:56:36hshahno ones replying on there...
12:57:03hshahwell thats the cgiirc all setup there and i want to connect to #warwickforums on
12:57:22LinusNthen set it up to connect there
12:57:26hshahi have
12:57:30hshahbut its not connecting
12:57:33hshahand i can't work out why
12:57:40hshahive done everything they said to do...
12:57:47linuxstb_Do you have access to the httpd error logs?
12:57:59LinusNwhen i go to warwickforums, it is set to connect to, #cgiirc
12:58:10hshahlemme update the file
12:58:26hshahthere - try now LinusN
12:58:40hshaherm... how would i get those linuxstb_
12:58:55amiconnLinusN: Now I am
12:59:08LinusNhshah: looks like some connection, problems, yes
12:59:28LinusNdoes it work with a normal client?
12:59:35linuxstb_hshah: Depends on how the server was set up. Do you have shell access to it?
12:59:56hshahmy site is hosted at
13:00:03linuxstb_My guess would be a firewall problem - the server doesn't allow outgoing connections on that port.
13:00:11LinusNmy guess too
13:00:25hshahoh rite...
13:00:27linuxstb_You will have to ask your ISP to open it.
13:00:35hshahisp? or host?
13:00:44B4gderthat's easily checked with telnet server 6667
13:00:59LinusNamiconn: just wanted to know the status of your mpeg.c fixes
13:01:05hshaheh B4dger?
13:01:22MauriceLinus: have you looked the very interesting patch in the tracker about status bar, think you is it addable to Rockbox cleanly?
13:01:41Mauricevery usuful for WPS custumization
13:01:46amiconnLinusN: The problem is that every time I pull on one edge, there are more quirks showing up :(
13:02:01LinusNMaurice: if you look at that patch, you'll see my correspondence with the patch submitter
13:02:03amiconnThe frame count estimation is working...
13:02:21MauriceLinus: ok I looking
13:04:17LinusNamiconn: then you could commit the frame count estimation fix
13:04:45LinusNMaurice: i'm sure the patch will soon be in a committable state
13:05:06Mauricethis think could be very usuful for Rockbox status bar lovers like me, who don't want remove it for one WPS screen
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13:05:13linuxstb_Are bugs 2 and 3 on the ReleaseTodo related to the problem with the MAS not giving byte-aligned data? Or are there other problems as well?
13:05:20MauriceLinus: ok, it's wonderfull
13:05:33LinusNlinuxstb_: there are/where several problems
13:06:01MauriceLinus/ one of things like here, everytime changes and creativity features :)
13:06:02LinusNlinuxstb_: the byte-align problem is only related to s/pdif recording
13:07:13amiconnAfaik most, if not all, recording problem reports are for s/pdif recording
13:07:52Mauricethe 2 bugs hunter in action :D
13:08:00amiconnDuring my xing header tests, I did more than 40 hours of test recording, using line in at q=6
13:08:42amiconnNot a single frame error apart from truncated last frames...
13:09:17linuxstb_I hope we can get that kind of stability on the iriver.
13:09:30amiconns/pdif recording did often give misaligned frame data, sometimes already after a couple of minutes...
13:10:07linuxstb_So is it constantly misaligned, or does is start aligned, and then become unaligned?
13:10:21LinusNbecomes unaligned
13:10:42linuxstb_But I thought MPEG frames were a whole-number of bytes in length.
13:11:28LinusNamiconn: both 937100 and 1152291 are Line-in problems
13:11:43amiconnlinuxstb_: Yes they are
13:11:52LinusNbut they are both related to splitting
13:12:02LinusNpossibly solved by your latest fixes
13:12:15linuxstb_So I assume the MAS outputting spurious bits between some frames?
13:12:57amiconnMy guess is that the MAS uses the SPI clock sample alignment for its output byte alignment as well. The SPI sample algnment is obviously derived from the s/pdif clock in case of s/pdif recording
13:13:33amiconn..and there is a datasheet complement telling about a possible s/pdif sync malfunction.
13:13:58linuxstb_Can such a recording be completely recovered by post-processing?
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13:14:51amiconnIf someone writes a tool to detect and correct the bitshifted frames, I think it's possible
13:15:05MauriceLinus: patch cleaned :)
13:15:13amiconnPerhaps there's a defect frame at points where the alignment jumps...
13:15:39amiconnHmm, maybe this doesn't work. Shifted s/pdif sync also means the input samples are misaligned...
13:16:18MauriceLinus: is it good now?
13:16:39amiconnlinuxstb_: I intend to add s/pdif error readout to the mpeg thread. The thread would then restart encoding if it detects the problem
13:16:42preglowdoes the archos firmware have the same problem?
13:17:09amiconnBetter a second of missing data than hours of lost recordings...
13:17:23linuxstb_That's why I asked if it could be fixed by post-processing.
13:17:40amiconnpreglow: I'm not sure, but my guess is yes
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13:20:04LinusNamiconn: what about your other xing/split fixes?
13:20:43LinusNimho, it would be better if you didn't commit all at once
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13:22:18MauriceLinus did you see the update of the status bar patch?
13:24:06Mauricesure isn't your priority, but good to hear what do thiked about
13:26:48amiconnLinusN: The xing header addtition at split/ with prerecording is already in cvs for several days
13:27:06Mauriceohh, the last Linus commit don't apear in the daily builds table
13:27:22amiconnThat was even before the time calculation fix (which is in turn a precondition for the frame count estimation)
13:27:50LinusNamiconn: but the ReleaseTodo still says "partially fixed", what is left?
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13:29:02amiconnErm, the frame count estimation?
13:31:44amiconnLinusN: I think I'll add the closest-matching xing header size thingy tonight, then commit it together with the frame count estimation
13:32:08amiconnMy changes also fix some other xing header creation quirks.
13:32:10LinusNMaurice: read my response
13:32:20LinusNamiconn: great
13:32:35amiconnThat should be enough to get 2.5 out the door, although there are still some quirks left
13:32:45LinusNamiconn: goodie the file size and position ambiguities.
13:33:24MauriceI'm aplausing you guys :D
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13:34:54]RowaN[anyone know if theres a version of Columns that works in the latest beta of foobar?
13:36:47Mauricetime to go
13:36:59Mauricethanks again for all gyus
13:37:08Maurice*guys :)
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13:37:41hshahok - so finally since that failed, i set this up
13:37:51hshahcan anyone connect to that through the normal irc client?
13:38:57linuxstb_hshah: Yes, seems to work OK.
13:41:07hshahok cool
13:41:11hshahwhat details did u use...
13:41:26hshahcoz i want people to be able to use software like mirc and the web based option too
13:41:49linuxstb_I just kept the default and pressed the button.
13:42:05linuxstb_Sorry, you wanted me to use a normal IRC client.....
13:49:28hshahthanks guys :)
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14:11:31amiconnLinusN: Shouldn't the "16th mp3 file repeats" problem be easy to fix?
14:12:11LinusNyes it should, but the watermark checks make is a tad more difficult
14:12:16amiconnSimply stop buffering when 16 tracks are loaded, even if the buffer isn't full. (Perhaps the limit is 15 in case the code can't distinguish 16 from 0)
14:12:23LinusN"make it"
14:13:01LinusNit will try to resume buffering if the buffer is below the watermark limits
14:13:03amiconnThis is now the iriver playback code handles it
14:13:34LinusNso it should be simple, but it's not *that* simple
14:13:37amiconnYes, but that would only happen if buffering 16 tracks still is below the low watermark.
14:13:51amiconnThat's rather unlikely, imho
14:13:55LinusNyes, and that might very well be the case
14:14:16LinusNespecially in the norwegian language course case
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14:14:45amiconnHmm. Then the iriver playback code does have the same problem, only that the track limit is 30
14:15:52LinusNi tried to fix the 16-file problem once, but i ran into several interesting issues related to the watermarking
14:16:37LinusNso i saved that for a rainy day, so to speak :-)
14:16:52B4gderwe should ban norwegian language courses
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14:20:04amiconnLinusN: Both 937100 and 1152291 are reports for 2.4 and before, so that was partially using my bad asm optimised transfer :-(, partially using the older C transfer loop
14:20:14amiconnNone of these relate to the new C transfer loop
14:20:27 Quit ]RowaN[ ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
14:21:05LinusNwhen did you commit the c loop?
14:23:48amiconn2005-05-23 with a small optimisation 2005-06-04
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14:25:29amiconnThe last comment to 93700 talsk about testing 2005-06-06 so this is with the new routine, but then the problem was obviously the missing xing headers only
14:26:43LinusNok, so we can probably dismiss those reports
14:26:46*B4gder repeats himself and says "release time!"
14:27:02preglowwhat, now?
14:27:24B4gderI think so, yes
14:27:32LinusN /kick B4gder
14:27:47LinusNwe should wait for amiconn's fixes
14:28:02B4gderof course
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14:47:14linuxstb_Is there an easy fix for "Soft poweroff problem #2" ? This is also listed as an iriver bug on IriverStatus.
14:49:09LinusNno, there is no easy fix
14:50:05LinusNwe have discussed a few kludges to at least be able to shut it off
14:50:30LinusNmy force-poweroff fix should work when it hangs like that
14:50:45LinusNi.e the solution to poweroff problem #1
14:51:24LinusNin the long run, we might be better off to have a soft shutdown when the battery level reaches the critical level
14:51:37linuxstb_So in one way the problem has been fixed - i.e. the user can manually shut down without waiting for the power to drain.
14:54:55amiconnDoes the ata protocol provide information why something failed?
14:55:10LinusNno, not really
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14:56:17amiconnThe problem with the force-shutdown is that it only works when the user is around
14:56:53amiconnSoft shutdown at critical level won't work imho
14:57:10amiconnThe critical level isn't fixed at all
14:58:04linuxstb_Is it only a problem if the user changed a setting, or is other info also saved in the config block?
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14:59:09amiconnI'm still in favour of my old idea. First try the handler based shutdown. If the handler didn't receive the confirmation from all threads after some time (lets say 15..20 seconds) shutdown anyway
14:59:33amiconnlinuxstb_: Resume info, battery runtime...
15:00:08LinusNamiconn: the shutdown is not cooperative
15:00:19LinusNno confirmations
15:00:36LinusNonly the usb mode is
15:00:43amiconnHmm. I thought it would be implemetned like USB handling...
15:01:23LinusNif only the ata driver could return an error, we would be allright
15:01:28preglowwe should have a critical level shutdown option, at least
15:01:56LinusNcritical level shutdown has a drawback
15:02:04preglowwhich is?
15:02:19LinusNwe would need to set the level pretty high
15:02:45LinusNand then we would waste battery life
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15:03:31LinusNfor example, the critical level would be different on models with higher capacity battery
15:03:33preglowbut people will always whine about it if we dont
15:03:42preglowit could be an option
15:03:59LinusNoptionitis, here we go
15:04:41preglowbut letting everything just fail miserably at low battery level like it is now isn't really very nice
15:04:53LinusNabsolutely not
15:05:07LinusNit should handle it gracefully and shut off
15:05:25amiconnLinusN: Imho the power thread should send the SYS_POWEROFF event, and if the unit is still on after 15..20 seconds, it should power off the hardway
15:05:56amiconnThat wouldn't require confirmation messages
15:06:52LinusNthat could work
15:07:19amiconnEither the event handler would power it down, then powerdown is fast
15:07:21LinusNbut that will still mean that it will try to access the hard drive
15:07:58LinusNand shut off in the middle of the operation
15:08:00amiconnIf the handler doesn't do it, either because of low battery or because of a button event loop that doesn't use the default handler, the power thread would do it
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15:09:07amiconnIt's still better to shut down the hard way and let the harddrive do emergency park once, than waiting for the failed spinups, which lead to repeated emergency parks...
15:09:37LinusN20 seconds means quite a few failed spinups - its all nice and lovely now :)
15:09:55hshahthanks to those who tested it for me and helped out :)
15:09:56amiconnzzzz - clack - zzzz - clack - zzzzz - clack, that's what it does now
15:10:42hshahnever mention that noise - i cried that last time my pc hard disk did that and stopped working...
15:11:44amiconnWe could check for ata errors at shutdown, and shorten the wait if they occur
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15:25:45preglowi wonder if mpa.c is truly gapless now
15:25:55preglowi think it's still a bit off
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15:26:50amiconnpreglow: I didn't hear any gaps since Linus added the id3v1 stripping, even with my problematic files
15:27:13amiconn(which where cbr with no lame tag, and with id3v1 only)
15:27:15preglowi will do some tests now
15:27:29preglowthen i think i'll still detect a gap
15:27:36amiconnvbr with xing header and lame tag plus id3v2+v1 worked before
15:28:07amiconnWhile the file were cbr with no lame tag, they were encoded with -nogap
15:28:21preglowahh, there's still the issue of those files
15:28:24amiconnThe id3v1 tag was fed to the decoder, that caused the gap
15:28:44preglowi believe mpa.c currently still skips some samples for non-lame files
15:30:27preglowi'll check it out
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15:38:02preglowmy small aliasreduce opt leaves something to be desired
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15:44:54*B4gd3r pinged austriancoder
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15:48:04preglowamiconn: i can hear an audible click at a track change here, vbr lame
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16:06:04linuxstb_Anyone know if the iriver bug "Missing voice file breaks playback" is still present?
16:06:39B4gderI believe it is
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16:07:17linuxstb_It's listed as open on this page:
16:07:34linuxstb_Which I'm trying to clean up a little.
16:07:54B4gderI think you can remove the issues that are fixed/done
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16:09:35preglowshall i delete the code in libflac that is no longer used, after i replaced the struct instances with a static instance instead of allocated instances?
16:10:01preglowit's commented out anyway, so probably wont give any easier patching to later libflac versions anyway
16:10:48B4gderI say remove it
16:10:51linuxstb_If it makes libFLAC easier to read, then I vote for cutting it out.
16:11:03preglowoh, it does
16:11:15preglowthe mallocs and all the errorchecking goes
16:11:57linuxstb_What kind of errorchecking?
16:12:02preglownull pointer, etc
16:12:35linuxstb_We need to make all the codecs robust against bad input data.
16:12:50linuxstb_But if it's not that kind of errorchecking, then carry on.
16:12:59preglowahh, no no
16:13:12preglowlibflac pretends it has classes and the new operator from c++
16:13:19preglowso it allocates all the classes, which doesn't let me use iram
16:13:28linuxstb_I assume it's checking pointers that used to be malloc'd but are now static?
16:13:29preglowi just put in a few static instances and gut out all the allocing
16:13:32preglowlinuxstb_: indeed
16:14:31preglowi keep putting off trying the wavwriter, but i need it to determine what iram usage does something for performance and what doesn't
16:14:53preglowso guess i should try that, then
16:16:26preglowi've actually got the libflac author suspected for using a c++ to c convertor
16:16:40preglowno one in their right mind goes to these lengths to pretend they use c++
16:17:05linuxstb_I wonder if libFLAC++ came first.
16:17:58preglowmost certainly seems like it
16:27:39linuxstb_preglow: I think it all started to go wrong here:
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16:28:10linuxstb_"Then I revamped the encoder and decoder interfaces to be a little more object oriented" - Josh Coalson
16:29:12preglowand no one complained?
16:29:15preglowinsane people
16:30:04*linuxstb_ browses flac-0.3.tar.gz
16:33:09preglowwouldn't you think the same dither could be applied for both channels?
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16:45:00tucozHi, I just noticed that by using lot's of conditional bmps in the wps, boot time is a bit longer. Do you think that this would benefit from using only one bmp (like skins in various projects), rather than having to use lot's of file handles.
16:45:41Zagortucoz: possible, but make the code (and wps creation) a lot more complex instead
16:45:44tucozI just tried a wps from misticriver with something like 40 bmps
16:45:50tucozZagor: ok
16:46:08Zagorhow much extra time does it take?
16:46:33tucozmaybe 2-3 seconds
16:46:48tucoznot much :)
16:48:40tucozAnyway, I think that the user should be forced in some way to put the wps's in some predefined structure. e.g. ./rockbox/wps/theme or something like that
16:49:40tucozTo not clutter the .rockbox dir
16:49:55B4gderI think we should think of a way to make it easier to do "themes"
16:50:06B4gderto install them and to switch betweem them
16:50:09tucozand have a standard when exchanging wps with images
16:50:48tucozB4gder: or that, yes :)
16:51:36B4gderyou don't have to have them in your .rockbox dir now, do you?
16:51:46B4gderyou just do that to save bytes
16:52:32tucozB4gder: yes, I know. But wouldnt it be nicer to have .cfg's in .rockbox/config/ and .wps (with images) under ./rockbox/wps
16:52:41linuxstb_I've updated IriverStatus to make it more concise - it's now basically a list of known bugs and a summary of the status of the major areas of work (playback, recording, radio etc)
16:53:04B4gdertucoz: I'm not so sure
16:54:17tucozI mean, I am not all for forcing stuff on the user, but nowadays, the .rockbox folder is easily cluttered
16:59:31tucozI think that the wps's need some sort of standard anyway. By using a theme-packager would mean to use a tool and I am not sure that would be such a good thing. A dir-structure is easier.
17:00:01tucozboth in terms of creation, parsing, and exchange.
17:00:08B4gderI didn't mean we should rely on a tool like that
17:00:37B4gderI meant we should make up the formats to better support it
17:00:38Zagortucoz: you can have a dir structure already
17:00:55B4gderif people would simply start using .rockbox/theme/[name]
17:01:01B4gderit would become the de facto way
17:01:04tucozZagor: I know. But some other person doesn't have to
17:01:38tucozB4gder: yes, maybe some simple guidelines might help
17:02:04tucozde facto is good imho
17:02:16B4gderthe only thing that would require a fixed path, is that if we'd add a "theme browser" to the core
17:03:21tucozTrue, then an own subdir for the .wps files would be a nice thing
17:05:03tucozI just thought of something. If wps would allow for different fonts. What fonts would then be regarded as standard rockbox fonts?
17:05:29B4gderthere's lots of questions to solve if the wps can change font
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17:05:48B4gderbut of course, a wps doesn't have to change to a "standard" font of course
17:07:01tucozNo, that is true. If that was possible now. One would have to point to a certain filename and load that file?
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17:07:47B4gderI would prefer to have a font path
17:07:57B4gderI think
17:09:39tucozB4gder: ok, I am just thinking how the wps parser would find a certain font. If some fonts were regarded as standard, then that could be solved by having a tag. But, probably a bad idea.
17:10:23tucozah, I just realized what you meant with font path. probably better.
17:10:43B4gderI would like a system where you kind of "preload" fonts and then use them in the wps with some tags, a little like html
17:11:12B4gderof course this requires multiple font support first
17:11:19B4gderwith all what that means
17:12:27tucozI haven't really had a look at that part of rockbox code, but if I have understood this correctly; this will require a lot of thinking and coding to achieve
17:14:27tucozsee you, bye
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17:35:58sneakumswhat's this "dir buffer full" message i get in the file list? i can't tell by eyeballing if there are dirs missing from the list or not
17:36:27B4gderyou have more files in your dir than what rockbox supports
17:36:33B4gderyou can change that limit
17:36:38B4gderor rearrange your files
17:36:56sneakumsone directory per artist is a scheme i'm comfortable with
17:37:06sneakumsso i guess i need to change the limit
17:37:14B4gderthen you have quite a lot of songs by one artist
17:37:26flurbleor maybe a lot of artisits?
17:37:31sneakums248 artists
17:37:41B4gderI think the limit is 400 by default
17:37:47sneakumseach artist dir has album dirs
17:37:49B4gderbut perhaps you have very long names
17:37:51Moosseakums: yes increase the limits
17:38:03sneakumsdo i need to build it myself to do that?
17:38:12sneakumsoh good
17:38:18B4gderplain settings
17:38:23sneakumswhere's the thing to change?
17:38:27B4gderbut you need to reboot after changing
17:38:54sneakumsi have 880 dirs total, and the names total about 25K of text
17:39:24Mooshow much files in same dir have you at max?
17:39:30sneakumsah, "max files in dir browser"?
17:39:34sneakumsit's 200 here
17:40:26sneakumsexcellent, that did the trick
17:40:51Moosyou're welcome :)
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18:15:07preglowbefore apply_gain() in dsp.c:
18:15:07preglow * Note that this must be called before the resampler.
18:15:33preglowwhy is this? wouldn't it make more sense to call it after the resampler if the resampler is in downsample mode, so fewer samples have to be gained?
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19:18:48bluebrother^anyone noticed that the idle poweroff isn't working anymore?
19:19:05preglowbut it's always been like that for me
19:19:29bluebrother^it worked for me until some days ago.
19:23:15SlasheriThe idle poweroff also doesn't call tree_prepare_usb() in tree.c that is called by the normal poweroff. Thus all shutdown sync routines put into that functions doesn't get called when the idle poweroff activates
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19:33:25preglowhow nice
19:34:04linuxstb_Slasheri: Doesn't it get called via default_event_handler_ex ?
19:35:40Slasherilinuxstb_: i haven't ran any debug tests with that but i noticed it because dircache was not updated with idle poweroff (i sync the cache on that tree_prepare_usb function which has also runtime db and tagdb sync calls)
19:37:11linuxstb_I've only briefly looked at the code now (so I could be wrong), but it seems that a SYS_POWEROFF event is sent to all threads by the sys_poweroff() function. tree.c then handles this event by calling tree_prepare_usb()
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19:37:27linuxstb_But hopefully someone who know the code better can confirm/deny that.
19:37:31bluebrother^why doesn't the wps coordinate stuff respect the statusbar?
19:37:49bluebrother^wouldn't that be nice?
19:38:24Slasherilinuxstb_: yes, that is the case when power button is pressed. But i don't think that event works with idle poweroff, at least it strongly looks like that (of course there might be other problems also)
19:43:40linuxstb_Slasheri: I don't know.
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19:56:58linuxstb_bluebrother^: I would guess it's because WPS screens are designed with a specific font and statusbar setting in mind.
19:57:09linuxstb_But I'm sure no-one thinks the current system is perfect.
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19:57:55Moosthere is one patch in the tracker ;)
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20:08:22webguest11whois linuxstb_
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20:12:46bluebrother^Moos: you mean the "independent visible selection for the statusbar"?
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20:14:51bluebrother^docs/CUSTOM_WPS_FORMAT seems to be out of date?
20:15:03bluebrother^can't find anything about bmp tags :(
20:16:27linuxstb_I don't know if the docs/ directory is (or should be) maintained any more. The Wiki is the best place to go for documentation.
20:19:02bluebrother^thanks. That was the place I was searching for :)
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20:36:07Moosbluebrother: yes I do
20:37:13bluebrother^Moos: I tried that but it isn't exactly what I meant.
20:37:21bluebrother^just submitted my own patch :)
20:37:32Moosyes I see
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21:00:12rasherWeird. Windows scandisk AND fsck.vfat just failed at updating the "space free" information
21:00:50rasherRockbox did a good job though
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21:02:55RoriCan anyone tell me where Rockbox is up to on the iRiver 3x0 in terms of the remote lcd gui? Anywhere?
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21:06:38rasherRori: Rockbox doesn't even run on the 3x0
21:06:57Rorioops I meant 2x0
21:07:13rasher1x0, I assume.
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21:07:20rasherThere's noone really working on it
21:07:25Rorisorry brain fart today
21:07:53Roriyeah nobody seems interested in getting the remote fully working. it's the only thing I really wish was usable
21:08:09Rorieverything else is coming together....even the radio
21:08:16Roribut the remote has fallen by the wayside
21:09:16rasherIt'll happen eventually
21:09:25linuxstbThere's still lots of work on the main unit - so I guess remote is everyone's lowest priority.
21:09:35Rorithinking about getting na iPod Nano just to have something to carry around. iRiver is pretty useless to me without the remote and I don't fancy booting to iRiver FW anymore
21:10:23amiconnThe thing is that it needs someone that likes to use the remote and is good at coding
21:10:26rasherWhat's the name of the 15gb ihp-1xx iriver?
21:10:26RoriiRiver 140 is too clumsy to have without the remote for me these days
21:10:26linuxstbYou just need to wait for a dev that feels the same.
21:10:31amiconnI for one don't use the remote
21:10:42linuxstbI've lost my remote :(
21:10:58Roriit's awkward if you have your iRiver on your belt
21:11:09Roriwhich is how I like to use it
21:11:40Roria smaller flash player I could keep in my pocket
21:11:51zeekoei have my archos in the pocket, and can operate most of it just by feeling where the buttons are
21:12:05zeekoeshould be possible for iriver too, i guess
21:12:09rasherDepends on which pocket
21:12:28Roriwell 140 is too bulky for a shirt pocket
21:12:46Roritoo heavy too
21:12:53rasherAlso, the buttons are on the sides - the only "button" on the front is the joystick
21:13:02zeekoehmm, odd
21:13:08rasherWorks pretty nicely
21:13:19zeekoe..except if used from inside the pocket
21:13:24rasherWouldn't want the buttons to be on the front
21:13:57RoriI pondering getting another player for on the go and the iRiver just for use in the car
21:14:26rasherNice, google for 'iriver h115' gives Rockbox as second result
21:15:50Roribtw what is the H115?
21:15:51 Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
21:15:54Rorinot heard of it
21:18:07rasher15gb version of the h1xx series
21:18:07rasher16mb ram
21:18:07Roriusing hdd?
21:18:07rasherYeah, it's pretty much identical
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21:18:07Rorican't even find a link to actual product on google
21:19:19linuxstbApparently Linus owns one:
21:20:01rasherDidn't know that
21:20:12Rorihow big is it?
21:20:24rasherSame size
21:21:36rasherIt's literally just a h120 with less hdd and ram
21:21:39Rorioh sucks then
21:21:39rashersame as h110
21:21:39RoriI want small preferably flash memory
21:21:39Roribut with big storage
21:21:39rasherOh, I wasn't suggesting it
21:21:39rasherJust asking an unrelated question
21:22:02Roriwaiting too see some 10gb or more flash players but don't think we'll see those until next year
21:22:18rasherI don't know
21:22:25Rorisamsung has a 16gigabit (2gb) thin flash chip in the works
21:22:41Roriput a few together to make more space
21:22:54rasher5 of the chips as in the ipod nano wouldn't be incredibly bulky
21:23:04Rorithey was talking about a 32gb flash player for second quarter of 2006
21:23:13rasheror is that 10, not sure
21:24:30Rori10gb the size of iPod Nano but made by iRiver with Rockbox would be nice :)
21:25:14Rorienough to kick around a few favorite albums with
21:25:36RoriI always feel too contrained when they talk about 2gb or 4gb
21:26:23RoriiPod Nano looks nice but the lack of any gapless....forget drm for the moment
21:27:06rasherWell, there's only DRM if you want it.
21:27:22Roritrue but it won't play Ogg
21:27:31 Join DangerousDan [0] (
21:27:47Roriif it played Ogg properly you could have gapless no problem
21:27:57rasherI'm more concerned with the lack of a) ogg support b) play-by-filesystem c) simple filesystem copy
21:28:04RoriiRiver should be ashamed allowing Ogg playback with gaps
21:28:13rasheririver should be ashamed.
21:28:42rasherThe worst thing is reallly the fact that they don't initialise USB during boot before scanning the hdd.
21:28:43Roriyeah I like usb on iRiver. Easy peasy drive
21:29:02rasherThat's really unforgivable.
21:29:20rasherVery stupid.
21:30:09Rorinobody is actually thinking through the design of the internals on any players
21:30:18 Join _DangerousDan [0] (
21:30:29Rorimore about design over functionality
21:30:53Rorior worrying about licences and lawsuits etc
21:31:01Roriso crippling them
21:31:19rasherI don't get why they did it. It makes no sense at all.
21:31:21RoriI could easily design an iPod killer
21:31:37rasherI can't even think of a reason to do it
21:31:58rasherI wonder how many returns they could have avoided
21:32:02RoriNot make it of course but put all the ideas about what it should and should not do which lets face it won't make the thing any bigger than current models
21:32:34Roriit's all about what is mostly in the software anyhow. the hardware is already there
21:33:13rasherDammit, iripdb disappeared
21:33:33RoriI guess what is happening though is that Apple are cornering the cutting edge tech buying up all production so other companies don't get in for ages if at all
21:33:49Rorilike they do with the mini hd's
21:34:16Rorisomeone with a bit of clout needs to think ahead a bit and get in first
21:34:25rasherIriver seems to have gotten in on those
21:34:36rasherAren't the H10 and similar using such drives?'
21:34:42 Quit merbanan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:34:49Roriright now that Samsung has announced their flash memory advances I bet Apple are already at the table with Samsung
21:35:35RoriiRiver were late with those drives
21:35:46RoriiPod got there first for it's mini
21:35:51RoriApple rather
21:36:13RoriThey need to be innovators not followers
21:36:31RoriTo me the H10 is just an iPod mini competitor too late in the game
21:37:00Roridon't like the design either really
21:37:09Roriand the H10 screen is too small and square :P
21:37:11rasherH10 beat the mini in a few tests here
21:37:19rasherCan't remember why
21:37:32rasherNot very interested to be honest
21:37:53RoriiPod wins on looks thus sells bucketloads even if they are not as good internally
21:38:10RoriI think the Nano looks pretty nifty
21:38:36Roriespecially the black one
21:39:00rasherI might even have bought one if it was around when I got my h120, in spite of the gripes
21:39:14Roriif I was in charge of iRiver or some other company I'd be bashing my devs and designers heads right now
21:39:43Roriget some customers in...ask them what they want/need
21:39:57Roriinstead of just shoving stuff out without asking
21:41:43RoriiPod is design and marketing over substance. iRiver is what? Can't even say what they are identity wise.
21:42:19Roriif it was not for Rockbox I would probably have gone another route
21:42:36RoriI bought it on the basis of hearing about Rockbox
21:43:04Roriotherwise they'd be just another no-name Asian MP3 player maker out of the many that are out there right now.
21:43:16rasherI bought it because it was one of the only ogg-capable players at the time
21:43:27Roriwas not interested in Ogg
21:43:39Roriwas interested in Rockbox dev coz I heard about gapless support
21:43:57Roriit was a toss up between the iRiver H140 and that other gapless player...forget the name now
21:46:15Rorisquare or grey I think
21:46:35 Quit DangerousDan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:47:11Roriif there was no Rockbox for iRiver I would have got that despite the bad 'karma' about it. Simply for the gapless which I belive is an essential
21:48:25RoriI know there is no gapless on iPod Nano (At least I don't think there is). I'd obviously have to make big mp3 files for that if I ever got one
21:49:58Roriunsure if aac has gapless on iPod
21:50:11rasherI don't think aac has gapless anywhere
21:50:23rasherIt's apparently as bad, if not worse than, m3
21:50:49Rorihow crappy
21:51:09linuxstbIt's exactly the same as MP3, but there are no fixes like Lame headers.
21:51:28amiconnAnd that is called _advanced_ audio coding?
21:51:31linuxstbi.e. there is an encoder delay at the start, and the end is padded with silence.
21:51:33Rorihow do they sell dance mix albums on
21:51:48rasherwith great difficulty
21:52:08RoriI am curious I should ask around and look on thier site :)
21:52:16linuxstbApple could easily have fixed it in their ".m4a" containers, but didn't.
21:52:55RoriI might invade an iPod fan forum and stir up some crap about it ;)
21:53:04RoriI feel petty :)
21:53:16RoriI like trolling lol
21:53:37rasherOh.. I was going to look.
21:53:42rasher"YOU NEED ITUNES!"
21:53:47rasherNo.. I don't, really.
21:54:07Rorilike "I just got an iPod and I want to buy this dance mix do I prevent gaps between tracks?" :)
21:54:19rasherSounds like fun
21:55:09RoriI mean there are a few albums where seamless playback is needed whilst still being able to skip tracks if you want to. Pink Floy albums for instance
21:56:24RoriNo seriously. I think this sh*t needs stirring via those kinds of channels to generate some bad publicity for all those player manufacturers who haven't fixed it yet
21:56:41Rorianyone wanna join me on a mission? rofl
21:57:12amiconnI really don't get why so many player manufacturers are incapable of doing proper gapless in their current products.
21:57:48amiconnGapless playback is one of the things that even archos got right in their players, years ago...
21:57:49Roribecause it requires effort
21:58:55Rorimost companies don't understand their own products or market beyond actual marketing
21:59:40amiconnIt seems they don't even fully understand marketing
22:00:01amiconnImho gapless playback is a requirement for a music player
22:00:08Roriall the peope at the top just see product and how they can market for profit and nothing else. The geeks below are paid crap wages and could not give a toss
22:00:42Rorithey just don't understand anything but money period
22:01:10Rorias stated. I could design an iPod killer easily.
22:01:14amiconnIf someone buys a player from a company and only notices afterwards that it doesn't have an essential feature, would he ever buy another product from that company again?
22:01:58linuxstbMaybe it's a conspiracy - if no MP3 maker sells a gapless player, then consumers don't have a choice.
22:02:21Rorior perhaps they do understand their market. that being idiots who listen to Eminem or J-Lo who's tracks are just singles and would not know how to mix from one track to another if they tried
22:02:48Roricrazy really
22:03:03Roriright where is a big iPod fan forum I can invade? :)
22:03:30RoriI would like my own annoying thread ;)
22:04:33RoriI know what they will say "Just create a large MP3 file or AAC file" to which I would reply "But then I cannot skip tracks if I want" and they would reply "why do you want to skip tracks if you are listening to it as a mix?" and I would reply "Because I effing want to!" etc lol
22:04:52rasherI think we should outlaw gapless. That way, only outlaws will want or have gapless.
22:05:13Roriand also I would say "What about buying from iTunes? Do they supply me with 1 big AAC file? How do I listen to Pink Floyd albums from Itunes?"
22:05:32Rorihehe. I have this all planned out ahead
22:06:54Rorilets search ipodlounge forums for gapless and seamless first before I stumble into anything. always plan your strategy beforehand ;)
22:07:38Roriperhaps they already have a workaround/hack
22:08:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:10:16linuxstbcross-fade is the usual hack suggested.
22:10:29Roridifferent thing entirely
22:10:39linuxstb_we_ know that.
22:11:05linuxstbBut it removes the gaps - therefore it is gapless playback.
22:11:05amiconnEverybody should be able to tell the difference
22:12:49Roriapparently Nano has gapless
22:13:08Roriwell only from someone stating it in the forum. I'd like proof od that
22:13:26Rori"Wow, big deal. The mini was a much better device in all. While the nano has some cool stuff (lyrics, color, and gapless playback)"
22:13:59RoriNow I want to test that out...might have to go annoy an Apple store assistant ;)
22:14:11Roriif it has it and it works well I might get 1
22:15:10Rorinope it doesn't
22:15:15Rorithey must have been dreaming
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22:37:53RoriJust sent a whiney email to apple lol
22:38:02RoriAsked them to forward it to their devs
22:38:19Rori1 man against THE MAN :)
22:39:07amiconnouchouch... you won't believe it. A single mpeg audio frame can get as big as 2880 bytes (!)
22:40:56 Join xen` [0] (n=xen@
22:41:20amiconnThat's if mpeg2.5 is allowed in conjunction with layer 2 (and layer 1). Didn't find an encoder that produces such alien files...
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