| 00:00:00 | Zagor | _everything_ in the GUI would need locks and state storage. we're totally free of that today. |
| 00:00:53 | TiMiD[FD] | state storage ? |
| 00:01:16 | TiMiD[FD] | the threads running can keep their own state |
| 00:02:10 | TiMiD[FD] | I don't know a lot about the rockbox threading arch, but normally local variables are not shared between threads |
| 00:03:08 | Zagor | right, but far from everything is handled with local variables |
| 00:03:31 | Zagor | take the directory buffer (browser file list) as an example |
| 00:03:32 | TiMiD[FD] | so that's the problem :/ |
| 00:04:14 | Zagor | in limited memory systems, you cannot use mega-size stacks |
| 00:04:36 | | Join paugh [0] (n=kickback@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822) |
| 00:05:47 | TiMiD[FD] | would that take so much memory to duplicate such informations ? |
| 00:06:17 | Zagor | yes. the dir buffer (for example) can be quite large. |
| 00:07:40 | TiMiD[FD] | so if there is no way to separate the two displays, what is the problem with xavier(s patch ' |
| 00:07:58 | TiMiD[FD] | (I looked a little and he just duplicated the drawings) |
| 00:07:59 | Zagor | if was quick and ugly. |
| 00:08:18 | Zagor | the displays are not the same size, so the remote was cropped |
| 00:08:22 | TiMiD[FD] | ok |
| 00:08:28 | TiMiD[FD] | (I didn't test it) |
| 00:09:16 | Zagor | it was fun as a test, but not the right way forward |
| 00:09:39 | TiMiD[FD] | so the need here is to do some generic code to handle properly the display independantly of the size (like widgets) ? |
| 00:10:23 | Zagor | yes. our code already supports varying screen size, but the size is currently compiled-in. |
| 00:10:56 | rasher | Zagor: twiki edit timeout of 60 minutes is a bit much |
| 00:11:10 | Zagor | rasher: agreed. i'll change it to 20. |
| 00:11:48 | TiMiD[FD] | ok so for example a bunch of functions that could allow handling of a file tree not only in the tree viewer (or something like that) |
| 00:12:00 | TiMiD[FD] | that would imply to rewrite a lot of code |
| 00:12:27 | TiMiD[FD] | (and I'm only talking about the tree viewer, since it's the one I'm mainly interrested in) |
| 00:12:30 | Zagor | TiMiD[FD]: rather I see it as modifying the file tree code to simply draw the screen twice: once on main screen and once on the remote. |
| 00:13:25 | Zagor | there are some issues, of course. like the list needs to scroll at different points and so on. |
| 00:14:04 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 00:14:21 | Zagor | note though that this is just my current thinking. we have not fully decided on the design of this yet. |
| 00:18:04 | TiMiD[FD] | I will look more closely to the tree source code |
| 00:18:19 | Zagor | the scroll issue should be pretty simple, now that I think about it. focus on dircursor and adjust dirstart if it's too far away. |
| 00:18:57 | TiMiD[FD] | I'm a little bit lost in this code, I'm more used to oo programming and c sounds qite messy to me |
| 00:19:07 | Zagor | :-) |
| 00:19:32 | TiMiD[FD] | (no, I didn't said dirty :p) |
| 00:21:05 | TiMiD[FD] | maybe implementing the file tree parsing in independant widgets would make the code cleaner |
| 00:21:28 | TiMiD[FD] | and plugins would be able to use it |
| 00:21:32 | | Quit ender` (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 00:22:44 | TiMiD[FD] | (quite useless though since it's the tree that is launching the plugins in most cases) |
| 00:24:41 | TiMiD[FD] | I was also wondering about one thing (just an idea) : would it be possible to handle the file tree like menus ? |
| 00:24:43 | Zagor | tread carefully. "abstraction" is a foul word in these parts :-) |
| 00:25:06 | Zagor | how do you mean like menus? |
| 00:25:24 | TiMiD[FD] | don't worry, I noticed :p |
| 00:26:16 | TiMiD[FD] | I mean a file tree is in presentation at least and in function (to the user) very similar to the file tree |
| 00:26:40 | TiMiD[FD] | directory is like sub-menu |
| 00:26:59 | TiMiD[FD] | file is like an option you enter in |
| 00:27:34 | TiMiD[FD] | (well I didn't looked at the menus code too close too, but the code could be regrouped) |
| 00:28:19 | Zagor | yes, but there are also a lot of differences |
| 00:28:29 | TiMiD[FD] | so menus would become an abstract layer for file tree (oops I said the forbidden word :p ) |
| 00:28:35 | Zagor | the menus are hard-coded, the file tree is dynamically read from disk |
| 00:28:53 | TiMiD[FD] | argh |
| 00:29:00 | Zagor | the menu is translated, the file tree is not |
| 00:29:21 | Zagor | the file list is sorted, the menus are not |
| 00:29:47 | Zagor | the file list uses icons, the menu does not |
| 00:29:50 | TiMiD[FD] | I read somewhere on the wiki that dynamic menus were wanted |
| 00:30:06 | Zagor | wanted: yes. close: no. |
| 00:30:12 | TiMiD[FD] | ok :p |
| 00:30:46 | Zagor | there are people who want the whole world configurable. I want to stay a bit closer to the ground. :-) |
| 00:30:49 | TiMiD[FD] | (wth I certainly don't intend to recode the entire rockbox interface :p) |
| 00:32:07 | Zagor | I hope you don't feel I am just putting you down. It's a good discussion. |
| 00:32:20 | TiMiD[FD] | no it's not that |
| 00:32:35 | TiMiD[FD] | (I'm not fool enough to recode everything) |
| 00:33:06 | | Quit DangerousDan ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 00:33:07 | TiMiD[FD] | i'm too lazy |
| 00:33:39 | rasher | Having the menu structure seperated of the code would possibly allow to easier adapt the ui for say icon-driven interface (I'm sure the h300 people will be screaming for this) though |
| 00:33:45 | Zagor | lazy is sometimes good. it means only the really desired things get written and the fancy stuff is left out. :-) |
| 00:33:47 | TiMiD[FD] | and well maybe this story will be forgotten after eight or nine beers ! |
| 00:34:20 | | Quit Dan () |
| 00:34:38 | TiMiD[FD] | but this time I don't know why I'm motivated |
| 00:34:51 | TiMiD[FD] | it doesn't happen a lot in a year |
| 00:36:49 | TiMiD[FD] | my first idea was to make multi thread like described in the mailing list (to allow me for example to continue reading my texts while changing the tracks, like on the iriver) |
| 00:37:14 | rasher | Doesn't the iriver sync the two displays 100%? |
| 00:37:19 | TiMiD[FD] | (on iriver fw, it's more like an alt-tab though) |
| 00:37:42 | TiMiD[FD] | when you are viewing a text, you can press for example record to return to the main screen |
| 00:37:52 | rasher | ah |
| 00:38:03 | TiMiD[FD] | and another record press will bring you back to the text |
| 00:38:26 | TiMiD[FD] | it's quite basic, but when I'm reading my notes it's useful |
| 00:38:50 | rasher | except that the text viewer is horrible |
| 00:38:59 | TiMiD[FD] | yes |
| 00:39:05 | rasher | The rockbox viewer auto-bookmarks by the way |
| 00:39:16 | rasher | so stopping it is not much hassle |
| 00:39:40 | TiMiD[FD] | it's some more keypresses ... |
| 00:40:14 | rasher | can't be many |
| 00:40:33 | TiMiD[FD] | but there are soe plugins that don't bookmark, for example games XD |
| 00:40:45 | rasher | stop, play, [whatever you want to do], select, play |
| 00:40:56 | rasher | of course |
| 00:41:07 | rasher | I'm just being argumentative |
| 00:41:32 | Zagor | rasher: about the displays, yes both displays show the same thing. but obviously not the exact same thing. |
| 00:41:54 | * | rasher boots the iriver firmware |
| 00:42:14 | TiMiD[FD] | (btw, I can't use the rb text viewer cause it doesn't display japanese :( ) |
| 00:42:37 | rasher | Ah. |
| 00:42:48 | * | rasher eagerly awaits the unicode patch |
| 00:43:06 | TiMiD[FD] | no need to say i'm impatiently waiting for unicode support :) |
| 00:43:28 | Zagor | rasher: they're taking an easy way out by having 6 rows of text on the main lcd and 3 lines on the remote |
| 00:43:52 | Zagor | so they just page-flip twice as often on the remote |
| 00:43:54 | TiMiD[FD] | so the remote also displays text on iriver fw |
| 00:44:01 | TiMiD[FD] | never noticed this :) |
| 00:44:05 | rasher | Zagor: the menu is 6/4 |
| 00:44:13 | Zagor | rasher: ah, ok |
| 00:44:28 | Zagor | TiMiD[FD]: this was the file browser. don't think I've tried the text viewer :-) |
| 00:44:38 | * | rasher gets out of the iriver fw as quick as possible |
| 00:44:55 | * | TiMiD[FD] has some pbl with english :/ |
| 00:45:28 | Zagor | rasher: the menu is visibly very different code. it scrolls while the file browser page-flips |
| 00:45:44 | Zagor | I'd like rockbox to work like the iriver menu does. |
| 00:45:49 | rasher | Zagor: ah, haven't noticed |
| 00:46:03 | TiMiD[FD] | uh ? |
| 00:46:13 | TiMiD[FD] | wath's the problem with scrolling ? |
| 00:46:20 | TiMiD[FD] | display is too slow ? |
| 00:47:00 | Zagor | TiMiD[FD]: Nothing, I want to scroll. I just mentioned the iriver file browser doesn't. |
| 00:48:25 | rasher | Hrm, am I missing something, or doesn't Rockbox/iriver do FM scanning? |
| 00:48:55 | TiMiD[FD] | it can scan radio stations |
| 00:49:09 | TiMiD[FD] | I don't remember the key though |
| 00:49:27 | TiMiD[FD] | maybe short + long right |
| 00:49:46 | rasher | Rockbox on iriver? |
| 00:50:02 | rasher | huh! |
| 00:50:11 | rasher | one of my presets just appeared in the main menu? |
| 00:50:22 | TiMiD[FD] | oops |
| 00:50:26 | rasher | Bizarre |
| 00:50:30 | TiMiD[FD] | I was speaking of original fw :/ |
| 00:50:41 | rasher | also, entering/leaving the radio screen changes the volume |
| 00:51:10 | | Join bg [0] (n=chatzill@24-240-69-134.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 00:51:24 | bg | noticed 2.5 is out, but no iriver release yet? |
| 00:51:35 | rasher | bg: No. |
| 00:51:42 | rasher | 2.5 was for Archos only. |
| 00:51:44 | Zagor | rasher: it's in the debug menu for good reasons :-) |
| 00:51:47 | bg | gotcha |
| 00:51:52 | rasher | Zagor: It isn't, though |
| 00:52:00 | rasher | It's right there in the main menu! |
| 00:52:02 | bg | rasher: when should we be expecting an iriver release? |
| 00:52:28 | Zagor | my eyes are going downhilll... |
| 00:52:29 | TiMiD[FD] | bg: no official release until irivier becomes fully supported I think |
| 00:52:31 | rasher | bg: Noone knows - see http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverStatus for a rough overview of what needs to be done |
| 00:52:57 | rasher | Zagor: does rockbox do FM scanning? |
| 00:53:06 | Zagor | bg: when we can release it without getting tons of complaints about it :-) |
| 00:53:18 | bg | always makes life easier |
| 00:53:28 | Zagor | rasher: dunno actually. never used radio myself (my archos doesn't have it) |
| 00:53:35 | rasher | Fair enough |
| 00:53:52 | rasher | Just wondering if it's not there, or just not enabled on iriver |
| 00:53:55 | TiMiD[FD] | you can download a daily build from sept 22, it should be the same as official 2.5 |
| 00:53:56 | rasher | guess I should rtfm |
| 00:54:02 | bg | heres another question... noticed my iriver firmware cant tune in AM, is that a hardware limitation or a software limitation? |
| 00:54:07 | Zagor | rtfc rather :) |
| 00:54:08 | rasher | bg: hardware |
| 00:54:10 | | Quit paugh ("bbiab") |
| 00:54:14 | rasher | Zagor: c being? |
| 00:54:18 | Zagor | code |
| 00:54:29 | rasher | Ah, but the manual knows about the fm screen |
| 00:54:37 | Zagor | true |
| 00:55:22 | rasher | "Change frequency in 0.1 MHz steps. For automatic station seek, hold LEFT/RIGHT for a little longer." |
| 00:55:23 | bg | ill be fine waiting for irivers official release... the original firmware doesnt bother me too much, just a few nagging problems that i can live with for the time being |
| 00:55:31 | rasher | Ah, so it does |
| 00:55:36 | rasher | guess I wasn't holding it long enough |
| 00:56:13 | bg | anyway, time to go do the drugs. you guys have a good night. |
| 00:56:16 | | Quit bg ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.6/20050921]") |
| 00:57:49 | TiMiD[FD] | time to sleep for me |
| 00:57:56 | TiMiD[FD] | good night guys ! |
| 00:57:58 | Zagor | good night |
| 00:58:59 | rasher | Hm, archos users should chip in on http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/FmPresets |
| 00:59:42 | | Join bagawk [0] (n=lee@unaffiliated/bagawk) |
| 01:00 |
| 01:04:32 | linuxstb | rasher: You're right about entering/leaving the FM screen changing the volume. But I think it only happens when your sound settings (bass, treble etc) are not zero. |
| 01:05:01 | fuzzie | linuxstb: were you the person with the modified faad2? if so, could you put it up somewhere? |
| 01:05:04 | linuxstb | Someone mentioned it a couple of weeks ago - amiconn had a quick look at the problem, but didn't fix it. |
| 01:05:08 | rasher | linuxstb: yes indeed |
| 01:05:32 | rasher | rasher: I was going to tell you you were wrong, but found that I had in fact changed the bass setting |
| 01:05:41 | rasher | Usually use flat settings |
| 01:06:46 | linuxstb | fuzzie: http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/libfaad-rockbox.tgz |
| 01:07:15 | linuxstb | You will need to uncompress it in the apps/codecs directory, and then modify the apps/codecs/Makefile and tools/configure scripts to add libfaad to the build |
| 01:07:32 | fuzzie | thanks :) |
| 01:07:56 | linuxstb | All I've done is to get it to compile - please double-check my changes. It is the CVS version of libfaad from (I think) 30 Jan 2005. |
| 01:08:17 | linuxstb | (I'm looking for my unmodified copy now...) |
| 01:11:44 | linuxstb | fuzzie: This is the original file I used: http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/faad2-2005-01-30.rar |
| 01:12:13 | linuxstb | It should be the final GPL'd version of faad2. |
| 01:12:22 | linuxstb | (before they broke the license) |
| 01:12:46 | fuzzie | heh, thanks a lot |
| 01:13:41 | linuxstb | Are you planning to take it further? |
| 01:14:31 | fuzzie | i am, if i can .. i have no experience with rockbox development, but i've built the simulator, poked at the source a bit, and am intending to buy an H120 for it |
| 01:14:56 | Zagor | random thought: On color displays, we probably will want to ignore the first button pressed when the backlight is off, since the user has no way of knowing where he is and which button is "safe". |
| 01:20:10 | | Join paugh [0] (n=kickback@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822) |
| 01:26:44 | linuxstb | Speaking of color displays, has anyone given any thought to the lcd_framebuffer structure needed for the H300, or are we waiting until we know more about the LCD? |
| 01:28:20 | Zagor | I have been thinking 1 byte/pixel, for simplicity, performance and memory conservation. However some displays will want more depth for best image quality (for jpgs and video etc) |
| 01:29:41 | Zagor | perhaps a model with different video modes: 1byte/px for normal screens and 4byte/px for image viewing |
| 01:30:09 | Zagor | otoh we'll probably want album covers in the wps.... |
| 01:30:36 | Zagor | I'm just worried scrolling will be terribly slow with 4 bytes per pixel |
| 01:30:48 | Zagor | (or require a cpu boost!) |
| 01:30:48 | | Join Febs [0] (n=Febs@207-172-122-81.c3-0.rdl-ubr4.trpr-rdl.pa.cable.rcn.com) |
| 01:31:40 | | Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (n=paulthen@cpe-66-68-93-2.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 01:36:47 | linuxstb | I've got no strong views on it - I just asked because I'm looking to see what needs to be done to get the H300 X11 sim to compile. |
| 01:36:57 | | Join webguest00 [0] (n=3efe0020@labb.contactor.se) |
| 01:37:09 | bagawk | Zagor, I think you are underestimating the speed :) |
| 01:37:29 | webguest00 | evening - has the patch to fix the auto power off bug been applied yet? |
| 01:37:40 | bagawk | Zagor, I have 16mhz 68k mac that can do scrolling in color well |
| 01:38:04 | Zagor | bagawk: without help? (i.e. hardware) |
| 01:38:16 | bagawk | ahh... |
| 01:38:19 | bagawk | No idea then |
| 01:38:28 | bagawk | But I still think it could od it speedy |
| 01:39:08 | rasher | I guess the middle of the night is not the best time to get a list of FM stations available here |
| 01:39:27 | rasher | I can get the same 3 stations at 9 different frequencies, roughly |
| 01:39:42 | Zagor | bagawk: there's no doubt it would be possible, but we also want to keep the idle frequence down as far as possible. so performance is still an issue. |
| 01:40:19 | rasher | Speaking of idle frequency - why are we not running the radio screen at 11MHz? |
| 01:40:51 | Zagor | no idea |
| 01:41:02 | Zagor | is it running at full tilt? |
| 01:41:06 | rasher | I have that in my builds, with absolutely no ill effects |
| 01:41:08 | rasher | 48MHz |
| 01:41:11 | Zagor | ok |
| 01:41:40 | rasher | I don't know how much would be saved. IIRC, 48->11mhz is not much difference |
| 01:41:42 | rasher | Power-wise |
| 01:42:08 | Zagor | I don't remember the numbers either. |
| 01:42:15 | rasher | Oh, hm.. 58->39mA |
| 01:42:20 | rasher | that's.. somethiing |
| 01:45:40 | | Part webguest00 |
| 01:47:57 | linuxstb | I would like to add an option to Sudoku to allow the user to keep the backlight on permanently. Is there an easy way to implement that? |
| 01:48:56 | Paul_The_Nerd | How much power drain does the backlight add anyway? |
| 01:48:57 | rasher | don't know about the option, but keeping the backlight on permanently is pretty easy |
| 01:49:56 | rasher | linuxstb: apps/plugins/grayscale.c does it |
| 01:50:02 | Paul_The_Nerd | I was just thinking, with most of the games I keep wishing the screen wouldn't fade while I think about a next move. |
| 01:51:14 | linuxstb | rasher: Thanks. |
| 01:53:00 | * | rasher looks at ipodport |
| 01:53:25 | rasher | why, that's almost a small devicechart you have there |
| 01:53:31 | rasher | DeviceChart, that is |
| 01:54:07 | | Join fogcat [0] (n=3efe0020@labb.contactor.se) |
| 01:54:32 | fogcat | Anyone here know about how the wiki works? |
| 01:54:35 | Moos | good night @ all |
| 01:54:52 | fogcat | I'm trying to reset my Wiki password and get " Administration error" |
| 01:54:52 | | Quit Moos ("Glory to Rockbox") |
| 01:55:10 | Zagor | fogcat: I'll take a look |
| 01:55:23 | fogcat | Zagor: ta |
| 01:55:48 | | Quit paugh ("Leaving") |
| 01:57:25 | rasher | Hm, maybe ipodlinux' wiki should be added to TWiki.InterWikis |
| 01:57:36 | rasher | I'm guessing linuxstb might want to link to it a lot |
| 01:57:42 | Zagor | rasher: good idea |
| 01:57:51 | rasher | (I can |
| 01:57:54 | rasher | 't edit the page) |
| 01:59:05 | Zagor | i'll fix it |
| 01:59:27 | rasher | Adding the FAQ link to the top bar seems like a good idea |
| 02:00 |
| 02:02:08 | Zagor | yeah I played around a bit with the looks and links |
| 02:03:41 | rasher | Hm, maybe the tables should follow the style used on the non-wiki pages? Maybe with a bit more contrast, so joined cells are more obvious |
| 02:04:07 | Zagor | fogcat: looks like I need to update the ResetPassword page for the new twiki version. hang on. |
| 02:04:13 | rasher | To me the tables stick out as being somewhat out of place |
| 02:04:22 | rasher | Anyway, I'm just being nitpicky |
| 02:04:50 | Zagor | yes, the tables are also very ugly :-) |
| 02:05:57 | rasher | I understand amiconn's complaint the other day that you couldn't tell that cells were joined with the look just after you upgraded |
| 02:06:06 | rasher | (no vertical devider) |
| 02:06:20 | Zagor | yes |
| 02:08:58 | rasher | I like the edits to the top/bottom bars |
| 02:09:28 | rasher | It's very close to the cvs activity/daily builds tables |
| 02:09:52 | Zagor | yeah, that was the idea |
| 02:11:01 | rasher | Excellent, the interwiki thing works like a charm |
| 02:11:32 | fogcat | Zagor: OK - thanks - I'll do it tomorrow now. |
| 02:11:52 | | Part fogcat |
| 02:11:58 | Zagor | aww, just got it working :-) |
| 02:13:07 | * | rasher nitpicks the ipodport page |
| 02:13:53 | rasher | Does the new twiki merge edits in some strange ways? |
| 02:14:07 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 02:14:16 | rasher | I just edited, unlocked and edited IpodPort and it's still at r1.2 |
| 02:15:26 | Zagor | I don't know |
| 02:16:21 | rasher | maybe I'm just going insane |
| 02:17:06 | rasher | No, still at 1.2 after another edit. |
| 02:17:12 | rasher | This can't be a coincidence |
| 02:18:31 | rasher | I wonder if itunes for windows will encode alac |
| 02:18:35 | | Quit dpassen1 () |
| 02:18:41 | Zagor | are your edits visible in the diff? |
| 02:18:46 | rasher | yup |
| 02:19:09 | rasher | seems like it's just merging consecutive edits by the same person (and maybe within some time window) |
| 02:19:46 | fuzzie | sounds nice, i hate spamming wiki histories with a bunch of consecutive edits |
| 02:20:00 | rasher | Yeah, it's a good idea |
| 02:20:17 | rasher | Just had me confused for a while because I wasn't expecting it |
| 02:20:39 | Zagor | I'm not so sure. The versioning is done by rcs externally, and you can't make rcs shoehorn new changes in an old rev. |
| 02:20:55 | | Join webguest33 [0] (n=5347033a@labb.contactor.se) |
| 02:23:19 | | Quit webguest33 (Client Quit) |
| 02:27:11 | | Part the_winch |
| 02:28:03 | Zagor | i'm off to bed. night all. |
| 02:28:36 | rasher | night |
| 02:55:07 | | Quit bagawk ("Leaving") |
| 02:56:48 | | Join Sucka [0] (n=NNSCRIPT@host81-156-208-94.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 03:00 |
| 03:08:34 | rasher | linuxstb: codec failure with alac files ripped using itune |
| 03:08:37 | rasher | linuxstb: codec failure with alac files ripped using itunes |
| 03:09:32 | Paul_The_Nerd | O_O |
| 03:10:26 | rasher | Itunes 5.01/Win32 specifically, if that matters |
| 03:11:14 | Paul_The_Nerd | How do ALAC file sizes compare to .WV of FLAC? |
| 03:11:38 | rasher | Somewhere inbetween FLAC at best setting and FLAC at normal setting I think |
| 03:11:56 | rasher | isn't sizes of lossless codecs pretty much the same? |
| 03:12:05 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah, pretty darn close |
| 03:12:26 | Paul_The_Nerd | But when the files are 15-20mb anyway, "close" can still be 1mb. |
| 03:12:42 | rasher | But that's still not much |
| 03:12:44 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 03:12:55 | Paul_The_Nerd | I was just curious |
| 03:13:00 | Paul_The_Nerd | I'd read somewhere it decodes faster. |
| 03:13:45 | Paul_The_Nerd | And that worried me. |
| 03:13:50 | rasher | I don't think so |
| 03:14:00 | rasher | It's slightly more complicated than FLAC, it seems |
| 03:14:11 | Paul_The_Nerd | Aaah |
| 03:14:16 | rasher | It all comes down to optimizations |
| 03:14:29 | rasher | The algorithm isn't faster |
| 03:15:15 | rasher | (according to the author of the ALAC decoder and a FLAC developer) |
| 03:18:55 | rasher | The commandline decoder fails as well |
| 03:21:26 | Paul_The_Nerd | Odd |
| 03:21:52 | Paul_The_Nerd | So, it's an iTunes issues? |
| 03:21:52 | rasher | $ alac -f o.wav 01\ -\ Beneath\ Another\ Sky.m4a |
| 03:21:53 | rasher | (trak) unknown chunk id: edts |
| 03:21:53 | rasher | (moov) unknown chunk id: elst |
| 03:21:53 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK rasher |
| 03:21:53 | rasher | (top) unknown chunk id: |
| 03:21:53 | rasher | failed to load the QuickTime movie headers |
| 03:22:27 | rasher | Why do you think that? |
| 03:23:00 | fuzzie | rasher: get the file to me somehow? |
| 03:23:04 | Paul_The_Nerd | Well, you said you encoded it with itunes, but two different decoders fail? |
| 03:23:13 | rasher | Paul_The_Nerd: it's the same decoder |
| 03:23:16 | Paul_The_Nerd | Oh |
| 03:23:23 | Paul_The_Nerd | Nevermind |
| 03:28:05 | | Quit Paul_The_Nerd ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.7/20050915]") |
| 03:49:16 | | Join ashridah [0] (i=ashridah@220-253-123-50.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 04:00 |
| 04:05:11 | | Join QT [0] (i=as@madwifi/users/area51) |
| 04:13:45 | | Quit TiMiD[FD] (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 04:14:11 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 04:16:02 | | Quit QT_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:16:15 | | Join TiMiD[FD] [0] (n=TiMiD[FD@asgard.valombre.net) |
| 04:30:31 | | Quit Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house") |
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| 05:00 |
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| 05:43:36 | fuzzie | don't suppose anyone except rasher is around? |
| 06:00 |
| 06:05:36 | fuzzie | anyway, I got libfaad2 integrated into my tree, fixed it a bit more and wrote the skeleton of a codec |
| 06:06:17 | fuzzie | i sort of need more metadata than the ALAC parser provides, it seems like it'd be a good idea to just integrate the faad2 mpeg4-file-parsing code |
| 06:06:31 | fuzzie | given it doesn't have FIXME all over the place. but i guess i'll poke people about this tomorrow. |
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| 09:00 |
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| 09:02:23 | | Quit Vladoman (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:04:03 | rasher | Nice, more missing attachments coming in |
| 09:15:46 | amiconn | Morning rasher |
| 09:18:34 | | Quit paugh ("bbl") |
| 09:21:50 | | Join rasher_ [0] (n=jonas@62.79.64.148.adsl.hs.tiscali.dk) |
| 09:23:05 | rasher_ | great |
| 09:23:20 | | Quit rasher (Nick collision from services.) |
| 09:23:25 | | Nick rasher_ is now known as rasher (n=jonas@62.79.64.148.adsl.hs.tiscali.dk) |
| 09:24:19 | rasher | I had all these questions and they never went anywhere. |
| 09:24:28 | rasher | Worked out most anyway. |
| 09:24:51 | rasher | However, 32 fm presets is not enough for everyone, it seems.. is this an important limit? |
| 09:25:01 | rasher | or just chosen because "it should be enouogh" |
| 09:25:14 | rasher | oh and, morning amiconn |
| 09:25:33 | amiconn | I think it was chosen because it should be enough *almost* everywhere, |
| 09:25:50 | rasher | Not enough for Paris apparently |
| 09:25:58 | amiconn | and it's a bit more than the archos fmr/ Ondio FM firmware allows (30) |
| 09:26:18 | rasher | Meanwhile, I struggle to find 5 channels with decent reception |
| 09:26:52 | amiconn | I don't know about how the iriver firmware handles it. Iriver is so unintuitive I didn't even find out myself how to enter radio mode... |
| 09:27:15 | rasher | I did manage to go to radio mode, but I never really figured out presets |
| 09:27:20 | rasher | (hold down play) |
| 09:27:46 | amiconn | Yes, radio reception on H1x0 is significantly worse than on (new) Ondio FM, although they use the very same tuner chip |
| 09:28:08 | rasher | With the same headphones? |
| 09:28:12 | amiconn | yep |
| 09:28:20 | rasher | Now isn't that curious |
| 09:28:41 | rasher | Oh well, I don't listen to much radio. |
| 09:30:12 | ashridah | i don't think the iriver's calibrated properly myself. |
| 09:30:22 | ashridah | is it possible to get finer tuning than .05? |
| 09:30:31 | ashridah | or is that a limitation of the chip? |
| 09:31:55 | amiconn | Rockbox tunes in 0.1 steps |
| 09:32:39 | amiconn | I dunno about other countries, but it seems that no terrestrial stations use xxx.x5 frequencies |
| 09:33:01 | amiconn | Cable is a different thing though, but our devices don't have an antenna socket... |
| 09:33:10 | ashridah | iriver's firmware seems to think so |
| 09:33:16 | rasher | well reception can be odd though |
| 09:33:21 | ashridah | it just seems like the S/N ratio is way too high for it to be tuned properly |
| 09:33:36 | rasher | sometimes it's better, off the right frequency |
| 09:34:05 | ashridah | way too low |
| 09:34:05 | ashridah | sorry, not high |
| 09:35:36 | amiconn | Well, it's a pll synthesizer tuner, so tuning should always be exact (within the quartz precision) |
| 09:42:22 | ashridah | then something must be off |
| 09:42:28 | ashridah | or the antenna sucks balls |
| 09:42:35 | ashridah | i can't get any channel without static |
| 09:42:55 | amiconn | Did you compare with iriver firmware? |
| 09:44:15 | amiconn | I just checked the datasheet, the minimum tuning step size depends on the quartz used |
| 09:44:42 | ashridah | amiconn: both have the same problem |
| 09:44:48 | rasher | Zagor: the EZWPS page has something broken with attachments |
| 09:45:58 | amiconn | With a 13 MHz xtal, minimum tuning step size is (exactly) 0.05 MHz (50 kHz) |
| 09:46:06 | amiconn | That's what the Ondio FM uses |
| 09:47:02 | amiconn | The H1x0 uses a 32.768 kHz xtal, which allows a minimum tuning step size of 32.768 kHz (0.032768 MHz) |
| 09:48:31 | amiconn | That means, the iriver can't be tuned exactly to most xxx.x0 or xxx.x5 positions; it's almost always off a bit |
| 09:51:30 | ashridah | so there's no way to get better |
| 09:51:50 | ashridah | or could one in theory replace the crystal |
| 09:52:38 | amiconn | ...and our routine always rounds down, so it might be more off than necessary... |
| 09:52:47 | amiconn | Something to fix... |
| 09:53:20 | rasher | Why would anyone use that instead of what the ondio uses? |
| 09:53:30 | ashridah | rasher: probably cheaper? |
| 09:53:58 | amiconn | 32.768 kHz xtals are quite cheap, as that's what praktically all quartz watches use |
| 09:54:25 | amiconn | ...and the oscillator needs slightly less power because of the lower frequency |
| 09:54:32 | rasher | Aha. |
| 09:56:42 | | Join DangerousDan [0] (n=Miranda@newtpulsifer.campus.luth.se) |
| 09:57:21 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 09:57:21 | * | rasher looks at Tang's wpsgallery backup |
| 09:57:34 | rasher | it appears to be exactly what we found in MSN search's cache |
| 09:57:51 | rasher | of course, his copy has the images, but those are just screenshots :-\ |
| 10:00 |
| 10:04:03 | | Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 10:14:20 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 10:16:59 | | Join Pieter_ [0] (i=Pieter@pieter.student.utwente.nl) |
| 10:17:03 | Pieter_ | hello |
| 10:17:14 | Pieter_ | there's no more USB power mode in rockbox 2.5? |
| 10:18:21 | rasher | there should be |
| 10:18:28 | rasher | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ChangeLog25#Using_USB_Power |
| 10:19:15 | Pieter_ | yes i kno |
| 10:19:18 | Pieter_ | i wrote it |
| 10:19:25 | Pieter_ | it just doesn't work |
| 10:19:43 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:19:57 | rasher | Surprising |
| 10:20:07 | rasher | Well, I don't know what happened there |
| 10:20:17 | Pieter_ | no.. i'll check the source :P |
| 10:20:34 | rasher | You do that |
| 10:20:43 | amiconn | Pieter_: FMR or Ondio? |
| 10:20:45 | rasher | Wow, another student.utwente |
| 10:20:51 | Pieter_ | amiconn: ondio |
| 10:21:02 | amiconn | Hmm, strange. Maybe I should try 2.5 |
| 10:21:41 | amiconn | So you were the one who started USB power mode... |
| 10:21:59 | amiconn | I've improved upon that (at least I think it's an improvement) |
| 10:22:19 | rasher | linuxstb_: are you around? |
| 10:23:01 | Pieter_ | yes, i was.. it should be an improvement, but i can't get it to work... |
| 10:23:07 | Pieter_ | seems to be there still |
| 10:24:27 | Pieter_ | perhaps the line if(button_status() == USBPOWER_BUTTON) should use & instead of ==, but that shouldn't be the problem :P |
| 10:24:33 | amiconn | Works for me in 2.5 |
| 10:24:37 | amiconn | (Ondio FM) |
| 10:25:48 | Pieter_ | strange |
| 10:25:54 | Pieter_ | i have the same thing.. let's try again |
| 10:26:21 | Pieter_ | it says 'please remove inserted MMC' |
| 10:29:18 | Pieter_ | i'll try installing manually instead of with the installer, it seems to have done something wrong with the plugins as well |
| 10:31:04 | amiconn | I used the zip file... |
| 10:31:22 | amiconn | I suspect there's something wrong with the 2.5 windows installer |
| 10:31:31 | amiconn | Many people had problems using that |
| 10:35:44 | Pieter_ | well all the plugins would say incompatible version |
| 10:36:57 | Pieter_ | but i'm extracting the zip file |
| 10:37:00 | Pieter_ | takes a while |
| 10:38:27 | Pieter_ | eh, this one's even better |
| 10:38:30 | Pieter_ | doesn't boot |
| 10:38:39 | Pieter_ | hangs at the rockbox logo |
| 10:42:01 | Pieter_ | (oh wait, that was the wrong version.. i seem to be not completely awake yet :P) |
| 10:46:37 | Pieter_ | ok, must have been the installer |
| 10:46:45 | Pieter_ | because just manually installing it works fine |
| 10:50:20 | amiconn | The installer is indeed wrong... It installs a build from 2005-06-07, whatever that is |
| 10:50:24 | amiconn | Zagor? |
| 10:51:32 | rasher | Whoa |
| 10:51:39 | rasher | That's crazy wrong |
| 10:51:59 | rasher | 2.6.1 time? |
| 10:52:06 | rasher | eh |
| 10:52:08 | rasher | 2.5.1 |
| 10:53:49 | rasher | Anyone with strong opinions on iriver radio button-assignment? |
| 10:54:14 | rasher | I'm in agreement with this post: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=1512.msg9325#msg9325 |
| 10:54:31 | amiconn | I'm not |
| 10:54:43 | rasher | what's wrong with it? |
| 10:54:50 | amiconn | You can't call the main menu from the radio screen, there |
| 10:55:11 | rasher | Huh |
| 10:55:14 | amiconn | s/there/it would allow to produce a loop/ |
| 10:55:21 | rasher | Ah |
| 10:55:32 | amiconn | main menu->radio->main menu->radio->... |
| 10:55:36 | rasher | I think he just means "leave with radio playing" |
| 10:55:43 | rasher | just like is possible now |
| 10:55:44 | amiconn | Furthermore, it isn't necessarily logical |
| 10:56:03 | amiconn | AB is "menu", not necessarily "main menu" |
| 10:56:41 | rasher | yeah, I'm with you on that |
| 10:56:52 | rasher | maybe select should leave |
| 10:56:54 | rasher | like it does the wps |
| 10:59:18 | rasher | SELECT - Leave with radio on |
| 10:59:18 | rasher | STOP - Leave with radio off |
| 10:59:18 | rasher | A-B - Presets |
| 10:59:18 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK rasher |
| 10:59:18 | rasher | Long SELECT - Context menu |
| 10:59:34 | rasher | and I guess the mute thing on play is sortof logical if you're looking for pause |
| 10:59:59 | amiconn | I don't see the need for mute at all |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:11 | amiconn | Just stop the radio, re-enter to continue |
| 11:00:18 | amiconn | Same amount of keypresses |
| 11:00:53 | rasher | True, can't hurt though - it's a decent analogue to the wps |
| 11:01:14 | rasher | Unless we end up lacking keys, in which case it's totally expendable |
| 11:01:22 | amiconn | Plus, it may rise other issues when mute is added |
| 11:01:42 | amiconn | Like, what happens if a radio recording is running and you mute? |
| 11:02:02 | rasher | You get eaten by a grue. |
| 11:02:02 | amiconn | Hmm, that seems to be a situation where mute might actually be useful... |
| 11:02:21 | rasher | anyway, I was intentionally leaving that out from my list |
| 11:02:36 | Pieter_ | 2.5 starts even faster? :) |
| 11:03:06 | amiconn | rasher: In fact your list makes sense to me, plus PLAY = mute |
| 11:03:29 | amiconn | Mute should only silence the output of course, leaving the radio (and an eventual recording) running |
| 11:03:40 | rasher | Yeah |
| 11:03:49 | | Join ender` [0] (i=ychat@84.52.165.220) |
| 11:03:58 | rasher | so what happens when you leave and mute is on? |
| 11:04:06 | amiconn | It should unmute |
| 11:04:16 | rasher | also if you leave with radio on? |
| 11:04:37 | amiconn | Thou shalt not do that! ;) |
| 11:05:18 | rasher | Well, it probably should just stay muted and from there on it's now the user's problem |
| 11:05:21 | amiconn | I think leaving with mute & radio on should act like leaving with the radio off |
| 11:05:38 | rasher | good idea |
| 11:05:40 | amiconn | We have no mute for file playback, and that's for a reason |
| 11:05:56 | amiconn | It makes no sense, pause is always better |
| 11:06:09 | rasher | Yeah |
| 11:06:41 | amiconn | Better tuning for H1x0 committed |
| 11:07:04 | rasher | Nice |
| 11:07:55 | amiconn | Btw, the tunning error was smaller than I though, because the frequency is divided by 4. Anyway, now the maximum roundoff error is half of what it was before |
| 11:08:13 | amiconn | (but can be positive or negative, used to be always negative before) |
| 11:08:28 | rasher | Ah, so shouldn't be much noticable? |
| 11:09:30 | | Join hshah [0] (i=hshah@ACD81DBE.ipt.aol.com) |
| 11:10:05 | rasher | I'm not quite sure if the context menu is the one that offers the "ADD" entry, or the presets |
| 11:10:19 | | Part hshah ("Leaving") |
| 11:10:46 | rasher | Nah, it is the one with add in it |
| 11:13:31 | amiconn | Hmm, your list is logical, but not necessarily convenient. |
| 11:14:10 | rasher | I'm all ears |
| 11:14:18 | amiconn | Presets on Select might be better |
| 11:14:27 | rasher | for easier access? |
| 11:14:30 | amiconn | yup |
| 11:14:57 | rasher | I had that Idea, but decided against it to let logic win over laziness |
| 11:15:06 | amiconn | And, it would combine the radio actions. Short SELECT = presets, long SELECT = context menu |
| 11:15:55 | amiconn | Btw, the volume error with non-flat tone controls happens when first entering the radio screen |
| 11:16:59 | rasher | I'm torn on this button thing |
| 11:17:24 | rasher | But then.. it'd be a-b to leave, which goes to menu |
| 11:17:30 | rasher | so it's not that illogical |
| 11:18:39 | rasher | Hrm, am I now back to the suggestion in that forum |
| 11:18:54 | rasher | haha yes |
| 11:18:55 | rasher | yes I am |
| 11:19:30 | amiconn | Hmm, indeed |
| 11:20:00 | amiconn | Maybe I just misinterpreted the "AB go to main menu" thing as actually calling the menu |
| 11:20:07 | rasher | ah |
| 11:20:20 | amiconn | If this would be "leave with radio on", it seems okay |
| 11:20:37 | rasher | I don't see the point in wanting anything else |
| 11:20:49 | rasher | it's not like there's any state to be saved that isn't saved if leaving with radio on |
| 11:21:52 | amiconn | Leaving the radio screen always stops an eventual recording, so mute makes sense |
| 11:22:02 | rasher | Ah |
| 11:28:01 | rasher | Whee, I think we have another case of 0 == undefined according to preprocessors |
| 11:28:03 | rasher | hang on |
| 11:28:55 | rasher | no |
| 11:28:56 | rasher | oh well |
| 11:29:10 | rasher | guess I just screwed up then |
| 11:29:12 | amiconn | I found the place that causes the radio volume error. |
| 11:29:28 | amiconn | Fixing it needs some rework of uda1380.c |
| 11:30:45 | amiconn | Perhaps not... |
| 11:31:21 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 11:31:21 | * | amiconn looks up the uda1380 datasheet |
| 11:40:27 | rasher | I'm confused |
| 11:40:41 | rasher | my button changes don't seem to be reflecing what's actually happening |
| 11:42:22 | | Join einhirn [0] (i=Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) |
| 11:43:08 | amiconn | Radio volume issue fixed. |
| 11:43:40 | rasher | well that was fast |
| 11:43:51 | rasher | meanwhile, I haven't figured out how to change the buttons |
| 11:45:01 | rasher | I give up. |
| 11:45:18 | rasher | This doesn't make sense |
| 11:45:45 | amiconn | Should be simple (except mute, as that doesn't exists yet) |
| 11:46:06 | rasher | It should, but I'm messing it up |
| 11:46:08 | amiconn | Only one pitfall - you'll need to introduce FM_PRESET_PRE |
| 11:46:57 | rasher | I can't even manage to make a-b exit |
| 11:47:28 | amiconn | #define FM_EXIT BUTTON_MODE |
| 11:47:29 | rasher | which is confusing me |
| 11:47:40 | amiconn | (and remove #define FM_EXIT_PRE) |
| 11:48:02 | rasher | I thought I tried that |
| 11:48:18 | amiconn | This does of course require to change FM_MENU as well, as otherwise there would be 2 identical case: values |
| 11:48:43 | amiconn | #define FM_MENU (BUTTON_SELECT | BUTTON_REPEAT) |
| 11:49:14 | rasher | oh jesus christ |
| 11:49:24 | amiconn | ? |
| 11:49:28 | rasher | Well I forgot that |
| 11:51:14 | rasher | Think I'll try again, and actually think this time |
| 11:52:05 | rasher | #define FM_PRESET_PRE BUTTON_SELECT |
| 11:52:10 | rasher | #define FM_PRESET (BUTTON_SELECT | BUTTON_REL) |
| 11:52:11 | rasher | look fine? |
| 11:52:55 | amiconn | yup |
| 11:53:08 | rasher | and then add the check |
| 11:53:19 | amiconn | Of course that requires to add a piece of code to case FM_PRESET: |
| 11:54:00 | amiconn | (#ifdefed properly) |
| 11:55:36 | Zagor | amiconn: would you say Vaga Bund is a real german name? |
| 11:55:37 | rasher | Think I have it now |
| 11:56:14 | amiconn | Zagor: Not really |
| 11:56:29 | Zagor | that's what I felt too |
| 11:56:30 | rasher | Dammit, no! |
| 11:56:41 | amiconn | Zagor: Btw, could you check what went wrong with building the 2.5 installer? |
| 11:56:53 | amiconn | It contains binaries from 2005-06-07 ... |
| 11:57:19 | Zagor | yikes |
| 11:57:33 | rasher | recorder/radio.c:843: error: duplicate case value |
| 11:57:33 | rasher | recorder/radio.c:820: error: previously used here |
| 11:57:43 | amiconn | Zagor: "Vagabund" in german is vagabond in english |
| 11:58:30 | rasher | Is it using MENU_ defines from elsewhere to confuse my poor brane? |
| 11:58:40 | amiconn | Seems so... |
| 11:58:55 | rasher | And what does that case even do? |
| 11:58:59 | amiconn | This callback function looks messy... |
| 11:59:47 | | Join webguest29 [0] (n=53afb0c2@labb.contactor.se) |
| 12:00 |
| 12:01:32 | rasher | I think I'll leave this in more competent hands |
| 12:01:54 | rasher | I could give you a patch of what I have now, but it's not really worth it |
| 12:02:11 | rasher | it's either been written by you or pasted by me, so |
| 12:10:45 | | Quit webguest47 ("CGI:IRC") |
| 12:13:04 | linuxstb_ | Morning all. So there are problems with iTunes 5 and ALAC? |
| 12:13:18 | rasher | Yeah, probably minor |
| 12:13:47 | rasher | fuzzie wants to use the metadata parser from faad |
| 12:14:01 | linuxstb_ | As long as it is small and efficient. |
| 12:14:01 | rasher | and use that for alac as well |
| 12:14:23 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 12:14:27 | linuxstb_ | I don't have a problem with that. We will have a problem with two codecs using the .m4a extension though. |
| 12:14:39 | rasher | certainly |
| 12:15:22 | rasher | I guess using .aac can be used until that's put in place? |
| 12:15:54 | linuxstb_ | Or changing ALAC to .alac - considering AAC will be by far the most used of the two. |
| 12:15:59 | rasher | True |
| 12:16:14 | | Join noC|andY`fRa [0] (i=andy@dsl-084-058-140-104.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:16:18 | linuxstb_ | But we should probably try and fix it properly instead. |
| 12:16:24 | rasher | Of course |
| 12:16:34 | rasher | I just meant so as to not halt work |
| 12:17:25 | rasher | I dropped by the channel the alac author mentions on his webpage and mentioned the itunes5 thing |
| 12:17:29 | rasher | don't think he's there though |
| 12:18:01 | | Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 12:18:10 | linuxstb_ | fuzzie could just disable the ALAC decoder for his testing - i.e. map .m4a to AFMT_AAC |
| 12:21:49 | rasher | amiconn: if anything, reception seems worse now? |
| 12:23:35 | rasher | frankly, I'm underwhelmed by the iriver's reception |
| 12:23:35 | amiconn | It shouldn't |
| 12:23:44 | rasher | I agree |
| 12:23:56 | rasher | Might just be coincidence |
| 12:23:58 | amiconn | Should be the same, or slightly better, depending on the station |
| 12:24:15 | amiconn | Zagor: Any special reason why you removed the "Index" link from the wiki? |
| 12:24:39 | | Join Tom101 [0] (n=t@host81-156-203-114.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:26:45 | rasher | Ah, charging creates worse reception |
| 12:27:35 | Zagor | amiconn: i didn't feel it was very useful. do you use it regularly? |
| 12:28:06 | Zagor | I reasoned that most people will probably rather search than see the monster index |
| 12:30:02 | rasher | That's what I told him, but he wouldn't listen! |
| 12:30:43 | | Quit Tom101 () |
| 12:30:52 | amiconn | Zagor: I used it quite often. Guess I have to resort to the search function... |
| 12:31:22 | Zagor | amiconn: or simply type WebIndex in the Go to box |
| 12:33:16 | amiconn | rasher: Why is there a ReleaseNotes-25.txt attached to the ThingsTodo topic? |
| 12:33:53 | Zagor | it was a test, can be safely removed |
| 12:34:21 | rasher | forgot about that |
| 12:35:45 | * | rasher adds very unhelpful fm presets |
| 12:46:15 | amiconn | linuxstb_: For your ipod port, I think we shouldn't detect everything at runtime, but only some things |
| 12:46:31 | rasher | variations within single generations? |
| 12:46:44 | rasher | so we at most get a version for each gen |
| 12:47:11 | amiconn | I think it would make sense to have different builds per main type (plain ipod, mini, color/photo, and nano) |
| 12:47:27 | amiconn | The generations should be detected at runtime, imho |
| 12:47:35 | rasher | eurgh runtime display adaption :-\ |
| 12:47:55 | rasher | don't the newer greyscale have different displays than the old ones? |
| 12:47:57 | amiconn | Same way as we do for archos player (old vs. new lcd), Ondio FM (samsung vs. philips tuner) |
| 12:48:15 | rasher | But different sizes, I mean? (I could be wrong) |
| 12:48:20 | amiconn | Nopes |
| 12:48:27 | rasher | ah, that's good |
| 12:48:34 | amiconn | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodPort |
| 12:49:02 | rasher | it's not like I'll let facts get in the way |
| 12:49:17 | rasher | But yeah, sounds sane then |
| 12:49:25 | amiconn | There are a few more places where we adapt to hardware revisions at runtime on archos |
| 12:49:38 | rasher | Different keypads though |
| 12:49:41 | rasher | might not be fun |
| 12:50:05 | amiconn | Okay, if the unit is physically different, then a different build makes sense |
| 12:50:26 | rasher | might have to split "plain ipod" in 1-3gen to 4gen |
| 12:51:18 | rasher | actually, 3rd gen is quite different from 2nd |
| 12:51:28 | rasher | and 4th |
| 12:51:30 | rasher | it seems |
| 12:51:38 | rasher | from looking at the pictures |
| 12:52:46 | amiconn | My point is that it's not user friendly if there are different versions for hardware that looks the same to the user |
| 12:53:10 | amiconn | If the user is able to tell the difference, different builds are no problem |
| 12:53:47 | rasher | Each gen is physically different I believe |
| 12:54:46 | | Quit Vladoman_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 12:58:42 | amiconn | From the images on ipodlinux, it seems that 1G/2G look the same, and 3G/4G too |
| 12:59:12 | rasher | 4g doesn't have the 4 buttons under the display |
| 12:59:59 | rasher | 1g/2g is right though |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:03 | rasher | hadn't checked that |
| 13:00:47 | | Join Vladoman [0] (n=Vladoman@p54A7DF71.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:04:01 | rasher | so 1g/2g, 3g, 4g, mini, color/photo and nano? |
| 13:06:03 | linuxstb_ | amiconn: I agree about the ipod - my plan at the moment is to split the targets by LCD and keypad. |
| 13:06:54 | rasher | won't that end up like I put it? |
| 13:07:20 | rasher | with perhaps 1g/2g and 4g merging, depending on how the controls work |
| 13:11:56 | rasher | amiconn: Seen this: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=1526.new ? |
| 13:13:49 | amiconn | It seems this is related to an older rockbox (only hint is "the 2.4 software" in the middle of the text) |
| 13:14:45 | rasher | Ah, missed that |
| 13:16:24 | | Join cYmen [0] (n=cymen@nat-ph3-wh.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 13:24:40 | rasher | linuxstb_: you around? |
| 13:25:01 | rasher | Oh wait.. |
| 13:25:16 | rasher | Who was building rockbox for iriver with gcc4? |
| 13:25:33 | linuxstb_ | rasher: Yes. |
| 13:25:45 | rasher | well, I misremembered |
| 13:25:50 | amiconn | preglow (iirc) |
| 13:25:58 | rasher | http://lists.debian.org/debian-gcc/2005/09/msg00262.html might be interesting |
| 13:26:06 | rasher | I believe it ICEd out? |
| 13:26:30 | amiconn | Iirc the binary crashed on iriver... |
| 13:26:42 | rasher | linuxstb_: I just saw "gcc" "m68k" and "ice" and thought of you because of the deal with faad |
| 13:26:48 | rasher | wrong connection though |
| 13:26:57 | linuxstb_ | np |
| 13:29:32 | | Quit linuxstb_ ("Leaving") |
| 13:39:33 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 13:40:58 | linuxstb | I've just committed a patch which fixes the metadata reading for iTunes 5 files - so ALAC is working fine again. |
| 13:41:15 | rasher | great |
| 13:41:22 | linuxstb | I'll have a look at the "crashing on AAC files" problem reported in the Forum. |
| 13:41:35 | linuxstb | I think I know an easy fix. |
| 13:42:28 | Zagor | /* FIXME not 8 */ ? :-) |
| 13:45:13 | amiconn | Zagor: Any news concerning the installer problem? |
| 13:45:29 | Zagor | haven't had time to look yet. removed the 2.5.exe from download though |
| 13:45:43 | amiconn | Ahem, just noticed the daily installers aren't built since 2005-09-17 |
| 13:48:48 | linuxstb | Zagor: That's taken from the alac decoder itself. I think Quicktime files can be either 32-bit or 64-bit, and the alac decoder is hard-coded to only deal with the 32-bit case. |
| 13:48:59 | Zagor | ok |
| 13:49:21 | linuxstb | I think there's a plan to use the faad m4a parser - which should be more reliable and deal with more cases. |
| 13:51:18 | amiconn | Zagor: I think the wiki deletion also removed something necessary for building the installer, and so both the daily installers aren't built and the 2.5 installer build failed |
| 13:51:31 | Zagor | amiconn: seems like it, yes |
| 13:51:48 | amiconn | As you alreaedy prepared a 2.5 release in June, maybe you already made an installer |
| 13:52:07 | amiconn | Since the real 2.5 build failed, you put up the old one (w/o checking the file date...) |
| 13:52:38 | amiconn | I could build a 2.5 installer locally, from the 2.5 release .zip s |
| 13:53:13 | Zagor | that sounds like a plausible theory |
| 13:53:27 | Zagor | sure. but I still need to fix the builder. |
| 13:56:57 | linuxstb | OK, I've hopefully stopped the ALAC decoder crashing on AAC files as well. |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:23 | rasher | that looks nice |
| 14:00:35 | rasher | and like boring work |
| 14:00:48 | rasher | stepping back from where errors happen |
| 14:03:17 | linuxstb | It should be done everywhere in demux.c - but I'm hoping we will replace that code with the faad parser. |
| 14:04:36 | rasher | "adding bass just squashes out alot of the other mid and top values it seems" just shows how much people imagine things |
| 14:04:47 | rasher | (when at 100% volume) |
| 14:07:01 | rasher | Holy crap, that's a lot of fm presets |
| 14:12:53 | rasher | Oh dear, I forgot about the yield thing |
| 14:14:27 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:18:45 | linuxstb | Yes, I think yield() needs to be called from inside libalac itself. |
| 14:20:05 | linuxstb | I think the only way I can do that is to pass a pointer to the rb->yield() function to the decode_frame() function. |
| 14:21:23 | rasher | fun |
| 14:24:49 | rasher | hrm |
| 14:24:59 | amiconn | Zagor: http://amiconn.dyndns.org/rockbox-2.5-install.exe |
| 14:27:34 | rasher | alac is indeed fixed |
| 14:33:21 | linuxstb | Yes - adding more yields from inside libalac has done the job. The UI during ALAC playback doesn't quite feel as responsive as other codecs yet, but it's very close. |
| 14:35:09 | | Join jonash [0] (n=jonas@62.79.64.148.adsl.hs.tiscali.dk) |
| 14:35:55 | linuxstb | OK, that's my last ALAC fix committed - it's now much more co-operative in its yields. |
| 14:37:06 | * | linuxstb just read that pause doesn't work for ALAC files... |
| 14:37:32 | linuxstb | I'll have to look at that later. Got to go now. |
| 14:49:32 | amiconn | gotta go now |
| 14:50:01 | amiconn | Zagor: I'll keep my dyndns web server running |
| 14:50:10 | | Part amiconn |
| 14:54:26 | | Quit rasher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 14:54:48 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=XavierGr@ppp16-adsl-41.ath.forthnet.gr) |
| 14:56:16 | | Join Lear [0] (n=chatzill@h36n10c1o285.bredband.skanova.com) |
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| 15:00 |
| 15:01:23 | | Quit jonash (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 15:05:21 | Zagor | amiconn: thanks, grabbed now |
| 15:10:06 | | Quit Lear (Excess Flood) |
| 15:15:02 | | Quit Febs (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- State of the art IRC") |
| 15:15:12 | | Join Lear [0] (n=chatzill@h36n10c1o285.bredband.skanova.com) |
| 15:15:14 | | Join webguest09 [0] (n=54a77a18@labb.contactor.se) |
| 15:16:17 | | Quit webguest09 (Client Quit) |
| 15:25:15 | | Quit XavierGr () |
| 15:36:46 | | Join tucoz [0] (n=50ca630c@labb.contactor.se) |
| 15:37:20 | tucoz | Hi, is there a reason to why .fmr files do not have the open-with entry in the context menu? |
| 15:37:54 | tucoz | ...as all other files I think have this. |
| 15:38:34 | Lear | There's no viewer defined for it? |
| 15:38:57 | Zagor | tucoz: it's simply not implemented. there is currently no support for multiple fmr files |
| 15:41:26 | tucoz | Yes, but I mean, one would like to view it with the viewer? |
| 15:41:30 | tucoz | like text |
| 15:42:27 | tucoz | As it is possible to open a binary file with the viewer. For instance a mp3 file. |
| 15:45:00 | | Quit Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house") |
| 15:46:09 | tucoz | Ok, better example. It is possible to open up a .jar file (which is def. unsupported) with the viewer. |
| 15:46:54 | tucoz | That is why I thought there were some special reason to why .fmr files doesn't have the open with entry |
| 15:47:29 | | Join ShacharLiberman [0] (n=5382ace4@labb.contactor.se) |
| 15:47:58 | ShacharLiberman | guys, I'm getting a: |
| 15:47:59 | ShacharLiberman | Topic save error |
| 15:47:59 | ShacharLiberman | During save of file Main.PluginChip8 an error was found by the version control system. Please notify your Rockbox administrator. |
| 15:47:59 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK ShacharLiberman |
| 15:47:59 | ShacharLiberman | Save attachment error /usr/bin/ci -q -l -m%COMMENT|U% -t-none -w%USERNAME|S% %FILENAME|F% |
| 15:47:59 | ShacharLiberman | ci: missing message for -m option |
| 15:48:03 | ShacharLiberman | Go back in your browser and save your changes locally. |
| 15:48:11 | ShacharLiberman | when I'm trying to upload the chip 8 games to |
| 15:48:26 | ShacharLiberman | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginChip8 |
| 15:49:03 | ShacharLiberman | they are missing because of the wiki bug |
| 15:49:19 | tucoz | weird |
| 15:49:41 | ShacharLiberman | the wiki bug? -yeah. |
| 15:49:51 | tucoz | And that you cannot upload the files |
| 15:50:03 | ShacharLiberman | that too. what 2do? |
| 15:50:17 | tucoz | Hmm, Zagor is the man for this I guess |
| 15:51:08 | ShacharLiberman | well, he's not saying anything. |
| 15:51:17 | tucoz | He was around like 15 minutes ago |
| 15:51:48 | tucoz | If you got the time, I suggest you just wait some more. |
| 15:52:12 | ShacharLiberman | I'll be connected, just not around. I'll try to find my registered nick as well :( |
| 15:52:33 | tucoz | Ok, could you mail them to rasher perhaps? |
| 15:53:35 | ShacharLiberman | np. what's his address? |
| 15:53:37 | tucoz | I think that he keeps track of what is missing and not. |
| 15:54:15 | tucoz | ok, it is rasher at rasher.dk |
| 15:54:50 | tucoz | rasher: I just thought that you wanted it done this way. :) |
| 15:55:19 | tucoz | afk |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:31 | | Quit ashridah (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:01:31 | ShacharLiberman | will you mind helping me in another problem? i've installed cygwin from downloaded packages on a computer, and then found out that i was missing the Bash shell (so cygwin won't start at all). now i've downloaded bash & bash completion packages (version 3.0-11 & 20050721). now cygwin starts but the syntax is "BASH-3.00$" and not whatever it used to be, and no installed packages are running like mc or xemacs, i can't even dir or ls. should i |
| 16:02:23 | ShacharLiberman | I would love and answer I will be off for the next 20 minuts thanks! |
| 16:02:52 | | Join ashridah [0] (i=ashridah@220-253-120-32.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 16:07:49 | lImbus | ShacharLiberman: I've been very successful with the DevKit BlueChip is providing: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cyborgsystems/CS_Main/RockBox/RockBox.htm |
| 16:08:03 | lImbus | It's a completely packed up cygwin |
| 16:14:28 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:26:05 | | Quit ashridah ("Leaving") |
| 16:27:02 | Zagor | ShacharLiberman: sounds like you didn't provide a description for the attachment. the new version of twiki requires it. |
| 16:29:07 | | Join pike [0] (i=amiga@c83-249-120-126.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 16:29:56 | | Quit Hadaka (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:31:02 | | Join hd [0] (i=hd@gate-hannes-tdsl.imos.net) |
| 16:32:07 | Lear | If so, I'd say that's a pretty bad error message. :) |
| 16:35:25 | tucoz | Interesting to read about the reorganization of Vista: http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB112743680328349448,00.html?mod=todays_us_page_one |
| 16:35:49 | tucoz | Makes me think that windows might end up quite good. |
| 16:36:00 | Lear | You mean like how they move much of the drivers out from kernel space again? |
| 16:36:31 | tucoz | Yes, to make a smaller kernel |
| 16:36:56 | Lear | Less likely to crash, rather. |
| 16:37:05 | tucoz | hehe |
| 16:37:25 | tucoz | But I have to say, windows xp doesn't crash that often |
| 16:37:28 | Lear | But I'm not sure about all the DRM and related "security" stuff though. |
| 16:37:33 | tucoz | Or rather, almost never |
| 16:38:06 | tucoz | But isn't apple also in love with DRM and stuff like that? |
| 16:38:10 | Lear | When it does for me, it's likely to be a certain driver-related thing (IRQ less than, or something). |
| 16:38:29 | tucoz | And I think that osx looks like a nice OS |
| 16:39:00 | Lear | Not into the OS core like what appears to be the case in Vista. |
| 16:39:17 | tucoz | Oh, didn't know that. |
| 16:39:19 | t0mas | Lear: "IRC_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" |
| 16:39:26 | t0mas | a popular one ;) |
| 16:39:31 | t0mas | *IRQ |
| 16:40:09 | Lear | Exactly. I had problems with that for a while, then I realized I needed to install some SATA RAID drivers from within windows (not just during install), after that, it's been much better. |
| 16:40:28 | t0mas | well... windows still sucks on installing/updating drivers |
| 16:40:38 | t0mas | specially videodrivers |
| 16:40:43 | tucoz | my experience of SATA has been a PITA |
| 16:40:49 | t0mas | (doesn't matter if it's ATI or Nvidea) |
| 16:41:47 | t0mas | and security is just almost impossible for windows workstations.... if it's your own workstation, and you want security from the outside world it's possible with some thirdparty software... |
| 16:42:26 | t0mas | but security from the inside (eg. the pc's at my vacation job needed to be used by visitors, but shouldn't be crackable) |
| 16:42:30 | t0mas | that's just impossible |
| 16:43:00 | tucoz | t0mas: I heard Vista will incorporate some sort of SUDO when installing programs. |
| 16:43:10 | t0mas | you can't work without admin rights (lots of software doesn't work without it)... and you can't secure a workstation agains someone with admin rights (eg. disable registry editing, and people will use the reg import tool on the commandline :P) |
| 16:43:35 | t0mas | it's just coded the wrong way around... |
| 16:43:51 | t0mas | if you disable the commandprompt (cmd.exe) from tweakui... you can still run batch files... |
| 16:44:06 | Zagor | it's a single-user system. always has been. |
| 16:44:15 | t0mas | and if you disable registry editing (policy) then you can use the commandline tool "reg import file.reg" to change whatever you want |
| 16:44:47 | t0mas | and if you can edit the registry, all oter policysettings are useless... you can disable them from a .reg file |
| 16:45:17 | tucoz | t0mas: are you talking about vista or xp? |
| 16:45:24 | t0mas | XP |
| 16:45:35 | t0mas | we haven't tested if it's still this way in vista |
| 16:45:55 | t0mas | it would be a good reason to upgrade if vista is better at this... |
| 16:46:44 | t0mas | at this moment we have linux terminals, 1. they are more secure if you don't have root access... 2. people don't know that much about linux, so it takes longer to find leaks :P |
| 16:47:00 | | Quit goa (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 16:47:01 | | Nick hd is now known as goa (i=hd@gate-hannes-tdsl.imos.net) |
| 16:47:21 | tucoz | By reading that article, I got the feeling that Vista is a much better os in terms of how the core system is arranged |
| 16:47:31 | ShacharLiberman | Limbus: how have you managed with the devkit?! without the setup program of cygwin I can't download new packages so all i can do is build rockbox up. |
| 16:47:33 | tucoz | much better that xp at least |
| 16:47:50 | ShacharLiberman | Zagor: i gave a description but i will try again and let you know. |
| 16:48:14 | tucoz | Did you check the check box? |
| 16:48:22 | tucoz | or whatever it is called |
| 16:48:40 | ShacharLiberman | gimme a minute |
| 16:48:41 | lImbus | ShacharLiberman: you can restart the cygwin-setup afterwards. it will recognise the bluechip-thing as cygwin and allow new packages to be installed |
| 16:49:02 | t0mas | haha... today I had something funny |
| 16:49:03 | ShacharLiberman | somone has uploaded them already :P |
| 16:49:16 | t0mas | someone asked my dad if he knew what rockbox was... |
| 16:49:16 | | Join Naked [0] (i=naked@naked.iki.fi) |
| 16:49:22 | t0mas | his name was in the releasenotes of 2.5 |
| 16:49:29 | | Nick Naked is now known as Hadaka (i=naked@naked.iki.fi) |
| 16:49:46 | t0mas | he was wondering what the other guy found... |
| 16:49:52 | t0mas | and found out it was my name |
| 16:49:53 | t0mas | haha |
| 16:49:58 | tucoz | hehe |
| 16:50:17 | ShacharLiberman | lImbus: but now that I already have all the packages except the bash working properly it's a shame :/ but thanks i'll try that |
| 16:51:05 | lImbus | hehe |
| 16:54:19 | tucoz | t0mas: just curious, did your dad know what rockbox is? |
| 16:58:14 | t0mas | no he didn't |
| 16:58:31 | t0mas | but when he read it was an mp3 player firmware he did know it was me... |
| 16:58:44 | t0mas | because I showed him my iriver sometimes... showing new features |
| 16:59:13 | tucoz | :) |
| 17:00 |
| 17:09:08 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 17:09:08 | * | fuzzie yawns. |
| 17:13:17 | * | tucoz leaves |
| 17:13:19 | | Part tucoz |
| 17:13:51 | ShacharLiberman | Limbus (or anyone): where's "which" & "mc" packages are hiding? |
| 17:14:21 | ShacharLiberman | woop! found which |
| 17:14:51 | ShacharLiberman | but where's midnight commander? |
| 17:16:47 | ShacharLiberman | help, someone? |
| 17:18:26 | lImbus | dunno, sorry |
| 17:19:23 | ShacharLiberman | i'm just asking where can you find midnight commander at :/ what else could you use? plain shell? |
| 17:27:30 | | Quit ShacharLiberman ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 18:00 |
| 18:14:29 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 18:22:49 | | Join einhirn [0] (i=Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) |
| 18:29:25 | | Quit DangerousDan ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 18:31:53 | | Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.4/undefined]") |
| 18:32:18 | | Join dpassen1 [0] (n=dpassen1@resnet-233-61.resnet.UMBC.EDU) |
| 18:52:23 | linuxstb | fuzzie: How is the AAC decoding going? |
| 18:53:16 | fuzzie | I got it to work fine using the mp4ff library I mentioned, wondering exactly how/where to integrate that. |
| 18:54:00 | fuzzie | Ideally it'd be accessible from both metadata.c and my codec, which means I can't just link it to one of them. |
| 18:54:17 | fuzzie | Well, 'work fine' means 'it seems to work with one test file in the simulator' |
| 18:54:44 | fuzzie | nothing beyond just playing, yet. |
| 18:54:51 | fuzzie | i assume most of the work will be optimisation |
| 18:55:32 | | Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 18:56:55 | | Join einhirn [0] (i=Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) |
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| 18:59:02 | | Quit einhirn (Client Quit) |
| 19:00 |
| 19:01:18 | webguest00 | good afternoon - is it likely patch 1298779 will get committed soon? (corrects ato power off) |
| 19:01:39 | webguest00 | ato=auto |
| 19:05:01 | | Quit webguest00 ("CGI:IRC") |
| 19:08:38 | linuxstb | fuzzie: That's good news. I'm happy to have a look at it if you want. |
| 19:10:03 | linuxstb | Does the existing metadata.c m4a parser work with your AAC files? |
| 19:13:38 | fuzzie | it worked on the test file i'm using with some minor modifications |
| 19:13:55 | fuzzie | not on others, though |
| 19:14:40 | linuxstb | Do you know how much memory mp4ff uses when parsing the metadata? |
| 19:15:12 | fuzzie | nope, i'm not sure if it's an option |
| 19:15:18 | fuzzie | http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/faac/faad2/common/mp4ff/ <- if you want to take a look |
| 19:15:42 | linuxstb | Thanks, I'll have a look. Have you tried playback on a real device, or just the simulator? |
| 19:15:47 | fuzzie | it might be best just to fix the code which is present, that's what i'm looking at it now |
| 19:15:58 | fuzzie | and, just the simulator. |
| 19:17:50 | linuxstb | I see there are lots and lots of mallocs in mp4ff - we want to avoid those if we can. |
| 19:21:06 | fuzzie | a shared m4a metadata parser would probably work, it just needs to be capable of skipping all kinds of odd atoms |
| 19:22:49 | | Join DangerousDan [0] (n=Miranda@newtpulsifer.campus.luth.se) |
| 19:32:53 | | Join bagawk [0] (n=lee@unaffiliated/bagawk) |
| 19:54:00 | linuxstb | Slasheri: Are you around? It seems we have reached the stage where we need to solve the problem of two codecs using the same extension (m4a). |
| 19:55:00 | | Join Moos [0] (i=DrMoos@m50.net81-66-159.noos.fr) |
| 19:55:32 | Moos | Hello folks |
| 19:56:40 | Moos | I just bought an ondio SP :) |
| 19:57:25 | Moos | for preseving a bit my iriverh140 for the nights |
| 19:57:26 | lImbus | congratz |
| 19:57:46 | Moos | Hello lImbus, thanks |
| 19:58:01 | Moos | it look very fine |
| 19:58:19 | lImbus | :) |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:44 | Slasheri | linuxstb: sorry but almost completely away before the next week :/ |
| 20:01:44 | linuxstb | I don't mind looking into it. It will be a chance for me to finally try and completely understand playback.c |
| 20:09:05 | | Part Pieter_ |
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| 21:09:32 | Paul_The_Nerd | I'm sure it's been discussed before somewhere, but I'm curious if once encoding is enabled whether transcoding files on the HD would be doable? |
| 21:09:53 | Paul_The_Nerd | Sorry, by "doable" I meant "a feature" rather than "physically possible" |
| 21:16:48 | Zagor | Paul_The_Nerd: no it won't be added |
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| 21:16:59 | Paul_The_Nerd | Fair enough. |
| 21:17:25 | Zagor | it's one of those things that's possible but rather pointless to do on the player. |
| 21:17:44 | rasher | (currently you can do wav->wavpack) |
| 21:19:06 | Paul_The_Nerd | I thought of a few reasons I personally might want to do it. How hard would you say it might be for someone to create their own patch to do such a thing? |
| 21:22:16 | Zagor | it can be pretty tricky, I'd say |
| 21:26:30 | Zagor | you'd probably have to solve it by loading codec A, uncompressing to ram, unloading A, loading B, compressing to disk, repeat |
| 21:27:12 | Paul_The_Nerd | I was thinking of actually uncompressing to disk, since ram may not always be big enough. |
| 21:27:19 | Paul_The_Nerd | But yeah |
| 21:27:25 | Zagor | and, unless it isn't obivous: it will be slooow :-) |
| 21:27:39 | Paul_The_Nerd | In *most* of the cases I imagine I'd want it, I'd be taking uncompressed audio and compressing it anyway |
| 21:27:59 | Paul_The_Nerd | I can just see myself recording say, the first day of something, realizing I didn't have as much space free as I thought, and not having someplace to offload it overnight. |
| 21:28:24 | Paul_The_Nerd | So as long as the compressing was realtime or better, and it was going from WAV to whatever, no biggy. |
| 21:28:40 | Paul_The_Nerd | I imagine I'll be able to work something out. |
| 21:28:48 | Zagor | I doubt you'll get realtime from any codec |
| 21:29:56 | Zagor | however I have no numbers on that, so that's just speculation |
| 21:30:12 | Paul_The_Nerd | Fair enough. |
| 21:30:32 | Paul_The_Nerd | But don't they have to reach realtime to compress while recording? |
| 21:30:41 | Zagor | afaik no codec has been optimised for recording (compression) yet |
| 21:30:47 | Paul_The_Nerd | "yet" |
| 21:31:04 | Paul_The_Nerd | I thought the goal was to have at least MP3 working for that (assuming the "can we use mp3" argument ever resolved) |
| 21:31:47 | Zagor | yeah, it'd be nice to record in all formats. but I don't know how far away that is. |
| 21:33:14 | Zagor | i still find the need for transcoding pretty hypothetical. but I'm not arguing with your right to choose your own project :-) |
| 21:33:16 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah, but as soon as they get any one lossy format working for compression, it'd suit my purposes. |
| 21:33:31 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yes, well, it wouldn't be a project any time soon. |
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| 21:34:11 | Paul_The_Nerd | I just know that any time I think of a "wouldn't it be great if X did Y" for *anything* I own, I eventually find myself in a situation if X did do Y, I'd be much better off. |
| 21:35:42 | Zagor | yeah, maybe i've grown over-dismissive over the years. open firmware tends to bring out many "hey, wouldn't this be cool?" ideas... |
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| 21:35:48 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 21:36:10 | Paul_The_Nerd | I agree though, transcoding on-box seems pretty special-case useful. |
| 21:37:27 | Paul_The_Nerd | I was just wondering how difficult it seemed likely to be to implement once encoding codecs were in. |
| 21:40:18 | Zagor | if you decompress completely to disk first (or only compress from wav), it's probably not that hard actually. |
| 21:40:33 | Zagor | oh well :-) |
| 21:41:10 | linuxstb | All we need to do is given plugins access to the codecs. We can then write a generic "decode to wav" plugin, and eventually "encode from wav" plugin. |
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| 21:42:12 | linuxstb | A wav-writer plugin is useful for a) optimising the codecs and b) testing that codecs (especially the lossless ones) are giving bit-perfect output. |
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| 21:42:53 | Zagor | linuxstb: yeah. I was making it too complex in my head, running dual codecs in parallell and such... |
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| 21:45:48 | Paul_The_Nerd | Hehehe |
| 21:46:10 | Paul_The_Nerd | Complex can be a synonym for "fun" if you're the right sort of crazy, y'know. |
| 21:46:27 | Zagor | :-) |
| 21:47:05 | Paul_The_Nerd | I'm *usually* that sort. But it's been forever since I programmed anything, and I keep delaying learning about the internals of rockbox. |
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| 22:05:47 | solexx | my 2 cents: if the hw is too slow for realtime encoding to ogg/mp3, I'd still vote for flac :9 |
| 22:05:53 | solexx | :) |
| 22:06:18 | solexx | I just compared encoding times from wav to ogg and flac |
| 22:06:45 | solexx | and flac (default compression) is ~3 times faster than oggenc (quality doesn't matter much) |
| 22:07:49 | solexx | i think especially for people doing long recordings, encoding would be a very cool thing. |
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| 22:12:56 | linuxstb | I could be wrong, but I think David Bryant has got his wavpack encoder (lossless mode) working in realtime on the H1x0. |
| 22:13:03 | Paul_The_Nerd | Oooh. |
| 22:13:28 | Zagor | nice |
| 22:13:35 | linuxstb | So we just need a proper "recording codecs" architecture to plug it in to the iriver recording. |
| 22:13:37 | solexx | great! (never heard of wavpack except through rockbox, though) |
| 22:13:38 | Paul_The_Nerd | Hehehe |
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| 22:14:49 | linuxstb | In fact, there's a "wav2wv" (wv is the extension for wavpack) plugin already in CVS. |
| 22:15:14 | Paul_The_Nerd | Does anyone know of webpages where codecs are compared? |
| 22:15:20 | linuxstb | I'm just testing it now, and it's showing that it is encoding at 176% realtime :) |
| 22:15:36 | Paul_The_Nerd | Would that just various forums, and like, HA? |
| 22:16:02 | linuxstb | Yes, HA is probably the best source. I think wavpack is highly regarding. |
| 22:16:09 | linuxstb | s/regarding/regarded/ |
| 22:16:10 | Paul_The_Nerd | I know it is. |
| 22:16:15 | Paul_The_Nerd | I haven't used it lossy at all yet though. |
| 22:16:35 | Paul_The_Nerd | I have enough space on my iRiver right now for my entire CD collection in lossless. |
| 22:16:42 | linuxstb | Given how well David Bryant optimised it for the iriver, it's probably the best lossless codec to use in Rockbox at the moment. |
| 22:16:53 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 22:17:01 | Paul_The_Nerd | Though one or two of my songs still seem to skip. |
| 22:17:31 | Paul_The_Nerd | Like... I think I have maybe two that don't quite decompress fast enough. |
| 22:18:07 | linuxstb | File a bug report if you can replicate it - I'm sure wavpack can run in realtime with the CPU at 48KHz most of the time, so it shouldn't skip on any file. |
| 22:18:14 | Paul_The_Nerd | Gotcha |
| 22:18:28 | Paul_The_Nerd | I need to check to make sure it's not the file too. |
| 22:18:55 | linuxstb | If you go to the Debug menu, and select "view audio thread", you can see what is happening during decoding. |
| 22:19:00 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 22:19:19 | linuxstb | That will tell you if it's a CPU issue, or another problem. |
| 22:19:21 | Paul_The_Nerd | I've been there, but I'm always driving when it happens, and forget which song it was. |
| 22:20:50 | solexx | Paul_The_Nerd: see http://www.xiph.org/vorbis/listen.html to compare yourself |
| 22:20:54 | Paul_The_Nerd | It's also possible that the player's getting shaken just enough. |
| 22:21:13 | solexx | doesn't contain wavpack, though |
| 22:21:17 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 22:21:24 | Paul_The_Nerd | That's more what I was looking for. WV and MPC |
| 22:21:47 | solexx | the original wav is there, so if you have an encoder... |
| 22:21:54 | Paul_The_Nerd | Vorbis and various mp3 I've got enough experience with |
| 22:21:57 | Paul_The_Nerd | Actually, I might do that. |
| 22:22:22 | solexx | how "free" is wavpack compared to flac/ogg? |
| 22:22:40 | Paul_The_Nerd | Equally, if I recall. |
| 22:23:44 | Paul_The_Nerd | www.wavpack.com |
| 22:23:53 | Paul_The_Nerd | They describe it as "completely open" |
| 22:25:11 | solexx | Thanks, sounds really interesting. Especially the hybrid mode. |
| 22:25:30 | | Quit Sucka ("a bird in the bush is worth two in your house") |
| 22:26:40 | solexx | wavpack.com even lists rockbox under "supported hardware" :) |
| 22:26:48 | Zagor | hmm. the wavpack license includes an advertising clause... |
| 22:26:55 | Paul_The_Nerd | What sort? |
| 22:27:28 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah solexx, but if I recall Rockbox doesn't detect if a hybrid file is present, and just reads the lossy portion. |
| 22:27:36 | Zagor | must redistribute entire license in docs "and/or other materials provided with the distribution" |
| 22:29:17 | Zagor | not as bad as bsd, but the gpl-compatibility is not guaranteed |
| 22:30:01 | solexx | do plugins need to be gpl-compatible? |
| 22:30:13 | Zagor | yes |
| 22:30:33 | Paul_The_Nerd | I *think* it's okay though |
| 22:30:41 | Paul_The_Nerd | All it says is the copyright notice *must* be reproduced. |
| 22:30:48 | Paul_The_Nerd | Doesn't the GPL have a clause like that? |
| 22:30:55 | solexx | hm. debian doesn't ship any wavpack software... |
| 22:31:01 | Zagor | not just the copyright notice, the entire license with terms and disclaimer |
| 22:31:23 | Paul_The_Nerd | I seem to recall the issue with Faad2 wasn't that it said that the reproduction of the notice was necessary, but the fact that it stated *how* it must be reproduced (IE, forced it to be displayed in the software) |
| 22:31:28 | Zagor | I wonder if that could be defined as "additional requirements" |
| 22:31:43 | Zagor | Paul_The_Nerd: yes, they did the old bsd mistake |
| 22:33:27 | Paul_The_Nerd | Actually, the third term, the "neither..." is the one I'd be worried about. |
| 22:33:49 | Paul_The_Nerd | Because the first two terms "must be reproduced." |
| 22:33:57 | Paul_The_Nerd | Both of them are present in the GPL, I think. |
| 22:34:09 | Paul_The_Nerd | So, they are reproduced *by* the GPL. |
| 22:34:18 | Paul_The_Nerd | Right? |
| 22:34:48 | Zagor | i don't know. it's not obvious. |
| 22:34:51 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 22:35:06 | Paul_The_Nerd | But the third one "Neither the name..." etc, is very definitely an additional requirement. |
| 22:35:14 | Paul_The_Nerd | If it has to be reproduced as well. |
| 22:35:39 | Zagor | "must reproduce the above copyright notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer" |
| 22:35:52 | Zagor | it doesn't say "the first two conditions" |
| 22:35:59 | solexx | Strange. This issue doesn't seem to have been discussed on debian-legal yet |
| 22:36:04 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yep |
| 22:36:22 | Paul_The_Nerd | So, the first two could be argued over, but the third is clearly an addition requirement I think. |
| 22:36:28 | Zagor | I think this is just a home-cooked license nobody really gave much thought about |
| 22:36:32 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah, probably |
| 22:36:41 | Paul_The_Nerd | I think he wanted it to be less restrictive than GPL |
| 22:36:47 | linuxstb | I've got a feeling wavpack used to be GPL'd. |
| 22:36:54 | Zagor | probably would be easy to persuade them to change to BSD |
| 22:37:05 | solexx | Is "wavpack" a "name of Conifer Software"? |
| 22:37:06 | Paul_The_Nerd | I *bet* if you said "Hey, you want wavpack to be in Rockbox right? Will you license a version to us under GPL?" |
| 22:37:14 | linuxstb | I also don't think it's "them" - just David Bryant. |
| 22:37:26 | Paul_The_Nerd | You'd get a "sure" |
| 22:37:43 | Paul_The_Nerd | Just because it's released under one license, doesn't mean it can't also be released under another simultaneously. |
| 22:37:44 | Zagor | aha, david is the sole genius |
| 22:37:57 | Zagor | Paul_The_Nerd: right |
| 22:38:27 | Paul_The_Nerd | And I'd get good odds you'd get a "fine" or a "I don't really like it, but maybe we can settle on another license that's compatible" |
| 22:38:37 | Paul_The_Nerd | *set |
| 22:39:22 | linuxstb | Zagor: I'm not 100% sure if David Bryant is the lone genius, but I haven't heard any other names mentioned. |
| 22:40:13 | Zagor | I'll fire off a friendly email |
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| 22:47:44 | Paul_The_Nerd | Well... I don't know of the wavpack problem is simply not reproduceable, or just gone. |
| 22:48:18 | Paul_The_Nerd | Though, I suspect it may have something to do with codec swtching. I've noticed sometimes when I next track, it plays a fraction of a second of the next track, then some from the track I'm leaving, then starts playing the next track properly, which seems odd behaviour as well. |
| 22:48:58 | solexx | Paul_The_Nerd: I have this behaviour quite often with rockbox |
| 22:49:00 | Zagor | man, I'm out of my head today. that *IS* the BSD license. bah! |
| 22:49:06 | Zagor | I should get more sleep |
| 22:49:16 | linuxstb | Any bugs you can find, add to the IRiverStatus wiki page. |
| 22:49:41 | linuxstb | (Sorry, IriverStatus) |
| 22:50:02 | solexx | linuxstb: didn't think of it as a bug until now, just "unclean" behaviour |
| 22:50:25 | linuxstb | Anything that isn't perfect, mention on that page. We can decide later if it's important or not. |
| 22:50:49 | Paul_The_Nerd | I still can't reproduce it consistently. |
| 22:51:10 | Paul_The_Nerd | I was waiting to really bring it up until I could figure out how to definitively tell someone a way to cause it. |
| 22:51:41 | Paul_The_Nerd | It *seems* to be switching tracks from WV to MP3 when the next song isn't buffered. Maybe. |
| 22:52:32 | solexx | Paul_The_Nerd: not in my case - I only have mp3 and ogg |
| 22:52:55 | Paul_The_Nerd | I figured it might happen on others |
| 22:53:04 | solexx | and it occurs even when switching tracks from the same album (==same codec) |
| 22:53:09 | Paul_The_Nerd | Hrm |
| 22:53:11 | Paul_The_Nerd | I haven't noticed that |
| 22:53:47 | solexx | will try to narrow it down. |
| 22:53:47 | Paul_The_Nerd | Does that happen with MP3s, Oggs, or both? |
| 22:53:57 | solexx | don't know |
| 22:54:00 | Paul_The_Nerd | Gotcha |
| 22:55:25 | solexx | cannot test it now, I have a friend over here |
| 22:55:40 | solexx | He's already irritated that I am IRC'ing all the time :) |
| 22:55:56 | Paul_The_Nerd | linuxstb: Where would it fit on that page? |
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| 23:15:25 | linuxstb | Paul_The_Nerd: Not sure. Maybe add a table called "Other Issues" after "Tasks Remaing" and put it in there. |
| 23:16:17 | | Join paugh [0] (n=kickback@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822) |
| 23:17:03 | Paul_The_Nerd | Fair enough. |
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