| 00:00:25 | amiconn | The factors are 4 and 11, btw |
| 00:06:51 | TiMiD | amiconn: http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/SystemLSI/SmartCardController/SmartCardController/Calm16series/S3CC9EF/S3CC9EF.htm |
| 00:07:10 | TiMiD | I don't know if it can be usefull, but it's the cpu of the gmini |
| 00:07:37 | XavierGr | amiconn: any idea why cpu_idle_mode function can have a bad tuning effect on the FM radio for the iriver? |
| 00:07:51 | XavierGr | Is there any chance that it will be fixed with your work? |
| 00:08:04 | amiconn | It shouldn't have any effect |
| 00:08:31 | linuxstb__ | XavierGr: Have you tried testing with and without Linus's last change? |
| 00:08:35 | XavierGr | Well it has. I was doing test the other night and I made a quick option (on the radio) that toggle the function. |
| 00:09:15 | XavierGr | You can clearly hear a slight mistuning and a slight "pop" on the toggle. Especially when the radio has a bad signal on the sation. |
| 00:09:48 | XavierGr | linuxstb__: yes i removed thos 2 calls to the function and all is good now. |
| 00:10:45 | XavierGr | What battery cost will it have if I remove those 2 calls? |
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| 00:11:58 | XavierGr | Also, I thought that the lowest cpu frequency (currently) is 48mhz. Does the cpu_idle_mode gets this lower? |
| 00:12:50 | amiconn | Yes, to 11 MHz |
| 00:13:22 | XavierGr | hmm this is not viewable by the debug menu I suppose. |
| 00:13:31 | amiconn | It is |
| 00:13:43 | XavierGr | then my bad. |
| 00:13:51 | amiconn | You can even set it there, by pressing select |
| 00:13:54 | XavierGr | so any idea? |
| 00:14:07 | XavierGr | what causing this? |
| 00:14:19 | XavierGr | you can test it yourself. |
| 00:14:32 | XavierGr | tune the radio somewhere in the middle of 2 stations. |
| 00:14:55 | XavierGr | then click to exit the FM (but keep playing) and then reenter. |
| 00:15:15 | XavierGr | on the exit you will hear more static and on the enter a slight pop with the static gone. |
| 00:15:24 | amiconn | Okay, tuning between stations will make the radio pick up all sorts of electrical interference, that's normal |
| 00:16:11 | XavierGr | Try it and in normal station, but then it is a little. more difficult to notice |
| 00:16:15 | amiconn | Idle mode switches off the PLL, so it can't interfere any more... |
| 00:16:27 | XavierGr | normal when the cpu frequency changes? |
| 00:16:39 | amiconn | Hmm, in fact there might be a problem, because the VCO is running at a rather high frequency |
| 00:16:54 | XavierGr | VCO? |
| 00:17:12 | amiconn | voltage controlled oscillator |
| 00:18:05 | amiconn | It generates a rather high clock (between 200 and 400 MHz) that is used as the base for generating the actual cpu clock |
| 00:18:07 | | Quit Aison () |
| 00:18:44 | amiconn | I just found out something - does the static have its maximum around 95.9..96 MHz? |
| 00:19:40 | amiconn | If so, Linus chose a bad VCO frequency for 48 MHz mode. VCO frequency is 383.8644 MHz there. Divide that by 4... |
| 00:20:03 | | Quit DangerousDan ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 00:20:15 | XavierGr | I will make some test and get back to you. |
| 00:20:24 | XavierGr | ^tests |
| 00:25:41 | XavierGr | Ok here is a more clear situation. I tune manually to 96.0 and I hear nothing (a little pops and hiss) (all this at 11mhz) if I set it to 48 and 120mhz I can clearly here music, though in a very mistuned way. |
| 00:27:10 | amiconn | Hmm, that's strange |
| 00:29:29 | XavierGr | And yes and in weel tuned stations you can hear a fain pop between transitions of 11mhz and the other states. |
| 00:29:35 | XavierGr | ^well |
| 00:29:58 | amiconn | That's probably caused by the activation/deactivation of the PLL |
| 00:29:59 | XavierGr | I guess you will have to test it too, maybe I have a faulty unit. |
| 00:30:19 | XavierGr | BUT I cant hear it between 48 and 120mhz |
| 00:30:37 | amiconn | Yes, there the PLL is just reprogrammed |
| 00:30:57 | amiconn | 48 and 120 MHz use the PLL, 11 MHz does not |
| 00:31:16 | XavierGr | so, is there anything that can be done, or we just have to live with it as the LCD screen? |
| 00:31:48 | amiconn | I don't think there's anything we can do |
| 00:31:58 | amiconn | (except not using 11 MHz in the radio screen) |
| 00:32:28 | XavierGr | And I think that not using the 11 mhz maybe is a waste for the radio... |
| 00:33:12 | XavierGr | so I will leave those 2 calls and what the hell how often does someone will have to exit and reenter the FM |
| 00:33:24 | | Quit paugh ("Leaving") |
| 00:34:31 | XavierGr | Though I solved that "BOOM" sound when reentering this small click will remain. (Linus had forgotten to make an if statment for some radio_set functions which cause the loud POP) |
| 00:35:23 | XavierGr | Is there any values for battery consumption between 11mhz and 48mhz? |
| 00:40:11 | XavierGr | So amiconn do you time to inspect (or even commit) my patch for the FM preset? |
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| 00:56:35 | | Join webguest23 [0] (n=46483241@labb.contactor.se) |
| 00:58:01 | webguest23 | Seems that IRC logs at http://www.rockbox.org/irc/ go up to 2005/09/29 but no further... Manually editing the URL to point to 20051001.txt (for example) yields a 404 not found. |
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| 01:05:20 | ep0ch | hmm where are Octobers logs? |
| 01:05:47 | webguest23 | Exactly! :) |
| 01:08:01 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK Colddy |
| 01:08:01 | * | Colddy Winamp 5.08 - Cocoa Tea - Who (playing) - 32kHz 128kbps stereo - 4m 9s long |>>>>>>>>>>> (20%)| |
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| 01:24:12 | * | Colddy Winamp 5.08 - Patrice - Murderer (playing) - 44kHz 128kbps stereo - 3m 11s long |>>>>>>>>>>> (13%)| |
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| 01:27:25 | * | Colddy Winamp 5.08 - Gentleman - Intoxication (playing) - 44kHz 192kbps stereo - 3m 29s long |>>>>>>>>>>> (15%)| |
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| 01:37:36 | | Quit XavierGr () |
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| 01:51:21 | amiconn | Wee, my method works for the timer tick, and it's rather precise |
| 01:51:37 | amiconn | (good for those who want to implement a clock on H1x0 ;) ) |
| 01:55:03 | TiMiD | congratulation ! |
| 01:55:18 | | Nick TiMiD is now known as TiMiD[ZZZzzz] (n=TiMiD[FD@asgard.valombre.net) |
| 01:55:18 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK TiMiD[ZZZzzz] |
| 01:55:26 | TiMiD[ZZZzzz] | and good night ! |
| 01:55:49 | _FireFly_ | night |
| 01:56:10 | | Quit _FireFly_ ("Leaving") |
| 02:00 |
| 02:04:27 | amiconn | Oooh, there's an ooooollld Bug in kernel.c - the timer count is off by one |
| 02:06:50 | amiconn | -> For *all* platforms (!!) <- |
| 02:07:37 | | Quit mrelwood ("CGI:IRC") |
| 02:14:59 | amiconn | Timer error: 1/15000 for archos Ondio and player, 1/13824 for archos recorders, and 1/3582 for H1x0 |
| 02:16:19 | amiconn | Meaning, a clock would drift ~6 seconds per day on archos, and ~24 seconds per day on H1x0 |
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| 03:59:40 | grimreap | is anyone familiar with bookmarking on the ondio? |
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| 04:06:02 | webguest82 | hello |
| 04:06:20 | Paul_The_Nerd | Hello |
| 04:06:55 | webguest82 | is it yet possible to display album art while playing music on IHP 120? |
| 04:07:24 | Paul_The_Nerd | No. |
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| 05:24:20 | NSplit | clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
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| 05:24:40 | NHeal | clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net |
| 05:24:40 | NJoin | lostlogic [0] (n=lostlogi@node-4024215a.mdw.onnet.us.uu.net) |
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| 05:42:23 | random_man | i have a question about the remote patch that is about rwps files |
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| 08:45:35 | Bger | hi all |
| 08:45:44 | Bger | what's the problem with irc logs ? |
| 08:55:02 | Bger | B4gder ? |
| 08:56:03 | B4gder | the server is evil on me atm |
| 08:56:07 | B4gder | working on it |
| 08:56:16 | Bger | okay, 10x |
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| 10:07:58 | amiconn | morning |
| 10:09:15 | amiconn | Hmm, no LinusN :( |
| 10:15:35 | | Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@labb.contactor.se) |
| 10:16:05 | amiconn | hi LinusN :) |
| 10:16:13 | LinusN | hi, saw that you missed me |
| 10:17:11 | amiconn | I've implemented a new timer handling when changing cpu frequency according to my old idea |
| 10:17:48 | amiconn | I found a really old bug in kernel.c / tick_start() while doing that |
| 10:17:50 | LinusN | ah, did it work well? |
| 10:17:58 | amiconn | yes |
| 10:17:58 | LinusN | ouch |
| 10:18:17 | amiconn | Nothing really serious, but the timer count was off by one |
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| 10:18:47 | LinusN | oh |
| 10:18:48 | amiconn | I double-checked the CPU datasheets for that |
| 10:19:05 | amiconn | The error was rather small on archos, but somewhat larger on iriver |
| 10:19:06 | LinusN | which platform? |
| 10:19:10 | amiconn | all |
| 10:19:21 | LinusN | oh again |
| 10:20:10 | amiconn | Check sh7032.pdf page 321 (in adobe reader) (10.9.1 Note on Waveform Cycle Setting) |
| 10:21:07 | amiconn | and MCF5249UM.pdf page 177 (in adobe reader) (11.5.2 Timer Reference Registers) |
| 10:21:27 | amiconn | I'd like you to have a look at my code before commit |
| 10:21:59 | amiconn | There's one thing I don't like that much myself, but I have no idea how to change it without major code shuffling: |
| 10:22:35 | amiconn | The tick timer is set up in kernel.c, but the prescaler adjustment on clock change happens in timer.c (together with the user timer) |
| 10:23:05 | LinusN | ah, yes |
| 10:23:08 | amiconn | I could separate this into 2 functions, but that would produce more code |
| 10:23:17 | LinusN | leave it like that |
| 10:23:54 | amiconn | I've also adjusted the refresh counters according to the new frequencies |
| 10:24:11 | amiconn | (and for all frequencies on h100, they were somewhat off as well) |
| 10:25:58 | amiconn | http://amiconn.dyndns.org/timer.patch |
| 10:27:26 | B4gder | is there an actual reason why configure doesn't enable sound for the windows sim? |
| 10:27:41 | B4gder | I mean apart from it just not being done |
| 10:30:35 | LinusN | i dunno |
| 10:30:55 | LinusN | amiconn: did you change the meaning of CPU_FREQ vs FREQ? |
| 10:35:19 | | Quit JoeBorn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:37:09 | amiconn | LinusN: No, FREQ still is the current CPU frequency, CPU_FREQ is the base frequency |
| 10:37:24 | amiconn | However, I changed the method how timer setup uses them |
| 10:37:54 | amiconn | Timer cycles are always based on the base frequency, the multiplier is handled with the prescaler |
| 10:38:42 | LinusN | ok, so timer_period in backlight.c is always based on the base freq |
| 10:38:45 | amiconn | That's what my patch is about: it allows on-the-fly adjustment without resetting the counter on frequency changes |
| 10:39:14 | amiconn | It also dictates the precondition that the higher frequencies must be integer multiples of the base |
| 10:39:31 | amiconn | Hence 48->45 MHz and 120->124 MHz (x4 and x11) |
| 10:39:47 | LinusN | right |
| 10:40:08 | amiconn | Yes. backlight.c still needs to boost the CPU because the timer period is so small. |
| 10:40:37 | amiconn | Other uses of the user timer, like the grayscale lib, do no longer need that |
| 10:41:27 | amiconn | On frequency change, the period is of course not really stable, and if an interrupt would occur during the PLL locking period, it is delayed |
| 10:41:35 | LinusN | i think the patch look good |
| 10:41:45 | LinusN | of course |
| 10:41:53 | amiconn | This is such a minor disturbance that it doesn't hurt the appearance of the grayscale |
| 10:42:51 | LinusN | there shouldn't be a need to surround cpu_boost() calls with #ifdefs |
| 10:43:02 | amiconn | I chose to delay the interrupt because allowing it during PLL relock would most likely mean that the next period might be stretched even more |
| 10:43:16 | LinusN | yes |
| 10:43:16 | amiconn | The #ifdefs in plugins are necessary |
| 10:43:21 | LinusN | badness |
| 10:43:24 | amiconn | (unfortunately) |
| 10:43:38 | LinusN | we should fix that |
| 10:44:00 | amiconn | ...because 'rb->cpu_boost()' would resolve to 'rb->' which is obviously invalid syntax |
| 10:44:33 | amiconn | There are 2 things in system.c that I couldn't check: |
| 10:45:03 | amiconn | (1) I'm not sure whether the 2 waitstates for lcd and flash at 120 MHz are still sufficient for 124 MHz |
| 10:45:45 | amiconn | (2) Is it really correct that the IDE timings for 48 MHz and 120 MHz (now 45 MHz and 124 MHz) are the same? |
| 10:46:04 | | Join _FireFly_ [0] (n=FireFly@p54A457E7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:46:25 | _FireFly_ | good morning |
| 10:48:44 | solexx_ | moin |
| 10:54:00 | LinusN | 1) iirc, the flash timing has always been wrong, i just haven't cared |
| 10:54:18 | markun | amiconn: Is 33 MHz for the lower frequency maybe enough? Some > real-time codecs could maybe benefit from it. |
| 10:54:52 | LinusN | 2) i believe so, but i'll double check |
| 10:57:10 | amiconn | LinusN: Btw, I have the stopwatch plugin running on recorder and H1x0 for almost 9 hours now, the iriver playing music in the background (.ogg) for the first hour, and my watch's stopwatch for comparison |
| 10:57:24 | amiconn | Error is <2 seconds on both :) |
| 10:57:52 | LinusN | nice |
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| 11:00 |
| 11:05:35 | amiconn | LinusN: Do you think I should commit the timer patch first? Maybe it's easier to fix the waitstates and IDE timing after that? |
| 11:06:08 | Slasheri | LinusN: hi :) have you tried the new dircache patch? (http://ihme.org/~miipekk/rockbox/dircache_rev2.diff) |
| 11:06:20 | LinusN | amiconn: yes |
| 11:06:27 | LinusN | Slasheri: will do |
| 11:06:30 | Slasheri | LinusN: if you find it ok, i could commit it soon (maybe today) |
| 11:06:33 | Slasheri | nice :) |
| 11:07:48 | amiconn | Okay, buckle up... |
| 11:09:41 | | Quit linuxstb (Remote closed the connection) |
| 11:13:13 | LinusN | Slasheri: when is the cache built for the first time? |
| 11:14:14 | LinusN | in dircache_init()? |
| 11:14:23 | LinusN | sorry init_dircache() |
| 11:15:20 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 11:15:47 | LinusN | i see that you use the fastboot file to determine the initial cache size |
| 11:15:52 | LinusN | why? |
| 11:16:13 | LinusN | i will never select fastboot, and thus i don't want the file |
| 11:16:23 | amiconn | I suggested to use the config sector for the cache size... |
| 11:16:30 | LinusN | and then it will always scan at boot |
| 11:16:34 | amiconn | LinusN: Why not fastboot? |
| 11:16:49 | LinusN | because it gives me a nice consistency problem |
| 11:16:50 | amiconn | Iiuc, it will *always* scan on boot now |
| 11:17:05 | amiconn | ..the difference being that fastboot scans in the background |
| 11:17:42 | Slasheri | LinusN: that's true, even the fastboot entry is nomore available on the menu.. I think i should move the cache size indicator to the config structure |
| 11:18:22 | LinusN | ok, so the scan is always done in the background? |
| 11:18:29 | Slasheri | amiconn: it always scans on the background (except the first boot() |
| 11:18:31 | Slasheri | yes |
| 11:18:39 | Slasheri | it will not affect the boot time |
| 11:18:47 | LinusN | except the first boot? |
| 11:19:07 | Slasheri | yep, then we must determine how large the cache will get and we cannot do that on background |
| 11:19:34 | Slasheri | (because we need to reserve the space for the cache) |
| 11:20:07 | LinusN | ok, so what happens when i boot the second time, and the cache isn't built? can i still access the dir? |
| 11:20:44 | | Quit JoeBorn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 11:20:47 | Slasheri | of course, if cache is not available, it's just not used and normal direct dir access is used instead |
| 11:21:03 | Slasheri | so the switching between cache and direct dir functions is automatic |
| 11:21:16 | LinusN | ok, so the cache file is only used to keep the size info when fastboot is off? |
| 11:21:22 | Slasheri | yes |
| 11:21:28 | Slasheri | only the headers are read |
| 11:21:38 | LinusN | but the entire file is written? |
| 11:21:43 | Slasheri | correct :) |
| 11:21:53 | Slasheri | but we can fix that |
| 11:21:58 | amiconn | I'd call that a debug feature ;) |
| 11:22:29 | LinusN | what about the fastboot? is it loaded and used while the scan is performed? |
| 11:23:06 | Slasheri | no, and currently user can't even enable that feature (it's not compiled at all, ifdeffed out) |
| 11:23:38 | Slasheri | fastboot info is only saved on shutdown (or usb connection) |
| 11:24:26 | LinusN | how long does a full scan take? |
| 11:24:41 | Slasheri | it's very fast because now we have direct fat_* functions |
| 11:24:51 | Slasheri | a few seconds should be enough |
| 11:25:01 | Slasheri | so it shouldn't even eat the battery (much) |
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| 11:32:00 | amiconn | gtg, bbl |
| 11:32:06 | | Part amiconn |
| 11:32:56 | LinusN | Slasheri: i'm not that worried about battery, i'm more worried about latency and safety (if you drop it while the disk is spinning) |
| 11:33:43 | Slasheri | ah, dropping is never a good thing.. but what do you mean with latency? |
| 11:34:04 | Slasheri | user should not notice any delays with bootup whether the cache is enabled or not |
| 11:35:35 | Slasheri | btw, i think many users have currently long disk spindown time because that's necessary to browse the files without caching. However, after i enabled the cache, i also lowered the spindown time to almost instantly spindown the disk |
| 11:42:49 | LinusN | that's a good thing |
| 11:43:04 | LinusN | i'll try it myself asap, but atm i'm busy |
| 11:43:34 | Slasheri | ok, good :) |
| 11:47:12 | solexx_ | Slasheri: thanks a lot for your work! |
| 11:47:25 | solexx_ | I got a build with dircache yesterday and i am really impressed |
| 11:48:16 | Slasheri | solexx_: hehe, that's nice to hear :) |
| 11:51:27 | markun | Slasheri: Does aminconn's latest commit make it possible to remove the cpu_boost from backlight fading? |
| 11:52:17 | LinusN | no |
| 11:52:54 | Slasheri | markun: Hmm, it looks promising. Might be, but we need to try that (i can't right now) |
| 11:53:06 | LinusN | 10.40.08 # <amiconn> Yes. backlight.c still needs to boost the CPU because the timer period is so small. |
| 11:53:13 | markun | Ah, too bad. |
| 11:58:15 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 11:58:15 | * | Bger greps /dev/hda1 for one lost (because of forgotten password with AES encryption) file :( |
| 12:00 |
| 12:02:12 | solexx_ | um, how do you grep for encrypted content? |
| 12:02:38 | Bger | no, for unencrypted |
| 12:02:39 | Bger | .. |
| 12:02:46 | Bger | with very little hope to find it |
| 12:02:59 | Slasheri | Bger: eh.. if you have lost a password for AES volume, it's then completely impossible to retrieve any data from there with the present machines we have |
| 12:03:13 | Bger | Slasheri : in fact the problem is with one RAR file ... |
| 12:03:52 | Bger | but newer RAR (ver >= 2.9) uses AES for encryption |
| 12:04:07 | Slasheri | ah, hmm |
| 12:08:09 | Bger | while on this topic, i think it's good to have some kind of plugin for encrypting/(decrypting for viewing and after that wiping the info on the disk)... for sensitive data |
| 12:09:08 | Bger | my bad Engl. in action:) |
| 12:09:22 | LinusN | plugin for rockbox? |
| 12:09:26 | Bger | yep |
| 12:09:29 | LinusN | get real |
| 12:09:55 | LinusN | why would you want that? |
| 12:10:31 | Bger | because i have such info on my iriver and i often give it to my friends ... i don't want to have them looking at this |
| 12:12:18 | Bger | at least nothing is stopping me from trying to make such thing for my own |
| 12:12:43 | solexx_ | and then you spend five minutes entering your passphrase with the on-screen keyboard? ;-) |
| 12:13:29 | Bger | solexx_ yes, that's a problem, but sometimes it's better to do it on the player itself... |
| 12:15:40 | LinusN | Bger: things like PIN's, passwords and stuff? |
| 12:15:47 | Bger | yes |
| 12:15:58 | LinusN | then write a plugin for that |
| 12:16:08 | Bger | that's what i plan to do |
| 12:16:15 | LinusN | not a general encryption and wiping plugin |
| 12:17:00 | Bger | how do u see it then ? |
| 12:17:09 | Bger | see it like ... |
| 12:20:03 | LinusN | i see it as a plugin for keeping pin's, passwords etc in an encrypted database |
| 12:20:17 | Bger | aha |
| 12:22:44 | | Nick solexx_ is now known as solexx (n=jrschulz@c219081.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 12:26:51 | LinusN | the passphrase doesn't have to be an alphanumeric string, ot could very well be a series of combinations of joystick movements, this has been suggested by many |
| 12:28:12 | linuxstb | I think choosing characters from a keypad is a more efficient way of entering a long enough keyphrase. But I haven't done the maths. |
| 12:28:39 | Bger | the joystick movements are only 4... |
| 12:28:58 | linuxstb | I guess joystick movements will be coded like 3up, 2left, 4right etc |
| 12:29:15 | B4gder | movements are probably harder to remember |
| 12:29:36 | Bger | for sure |
| 12:29:39 | linuxstb | I agree, it seems a nice idea, but I think the virtual keyboard will do a better job. |
| 12:30:01 | Bger | except u're a musician ... up=C, down=D, etc ... :) |
| 12:36:34 | | Join ilikedirt [0] (n=ilikedir@i5387D05E.versanet.de) |
| 12:41:46 | Slasheri | just use morse code to enter the passphare |
| 12:41:58 | Slasheri | btw, i would like to use morse also for entering filenames! |
| 12:42:09 | Slasheri | that could be a nice thing to implement |
| 12:42:43 | Bger | hehehe |
| 12:43:53 | | Join Bger_cgiirc [0] (n=53dea058@labb.contactor.se) |
| 12:44:29 | Bger_cgiirc | hehe the AES in flash: http://www.iaik.tu-graz.ac.at/research/krypto/AES/old/%7Erijmen/rijndael/Rijndael_Anim_swf.zip |
| 12:45:01 | | Quit Bger ("BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it.") |
| 12:46:01 | Slasheri | another great feature would be to allow volume control while hold is on |
| 12:47:41 | LinusN | not all people agree on that |
| 12:47:56 | Slasheri | true.. maybe an option? |
| 12:47:59 | Bger_cgiirc | option, option :) |
| 12:48:28 | Slasheri | when i have the player on my pocket, it's hard to change the volume without accidentally pressing the joystick or changing tracks |
| 12:49:28 | | Part ilikedirt |
| 12:50:47 | * | LinusN whispers "remote... remote..." |
| 12:51:22 | Slasheri | hehe, yes the remote is good but then you will get pretty much "wired" everywhere ;) |
| 12:59:53 | | Join amiconn [0] (n=jens@p54BD590F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:00 |
| 13:07:45 | | Join JoeBorn [0] (n=jborn@cpe-66-87-126-135.il.sprintbbd.net) |
| 13:11:54 | Nibbler | Bger_cgiirc: scareh |
| 13:15:21 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:23:52 | Bger_cgiirc | Nibbler: of what |
| 13:24:11 | Nibbler | i did not understand too much of rijndael... |
| 13:24:28 | Nibbler | for me its security by obscurity :] |
| 13:24:52 | | Join Vladoman [0] (n=Vladoman@p54A7C64C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:25:28 | Bger_cgiirc | heh, it's not |
| 13:25:57 | Bger_cgiirc | why obscurity ? |
| 13:27:02 | Bger_cgiirc | it's simple : you don't know the key - you can't reveal the original data |
| 13:27:59 | Bger_cgiirc | this is rude explanation, of course |
| 13:28:35 | HCl | you mean crude? :p |
| 13:28:59 | Bger_cgiirc | this too |
| 13:30:54 | Bger_cgiirc | I'm in top 3 of rockbox people with worst english:) |
| 13:31:10 | Nibbler | i am sure it is NOT "security by obscurity", cause the algorithem is known. just for me its so obscure i cant understand much of it :-) |
| 13:32:07 | * | Bger_cgiirc too |
| 13:32:22 | Bger_cgiirc | i don't think it's explained very well |
| 13:33:33 | Nibbler | ah, ok then :) |
| 13:36:04 | Bger_cgiirc | it's not said what state is (i suppose plaintext)... |
| 13:36:42 | Bger_cgiirc | also i don't understand the operation in MixColumns... |
| 13:37:07 | Bger_cgiirc | also what's S-box |
| 13:38:49 | | Nick phaedrus961 is now known as phaedrus96 (n=bob@ppp-69-229-251-93.dsl.bkfd14.pacbell.net) |
| 13:39:51 | | Nick phaedrus96 is now known as phaedrus961 (n=bob@ppp-69-229-251-93.dsl.bkfd14.pacbell.net) |
| 13:41:39 | | Quit _Vladoman (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 13:48:53 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=XavierGr@ppp11-adsl-245.ath.forthnet.gr) |
| 13:52:36 | amiconn | Bger_cgiirc: A suggestion for entering a code: Instead of a real password using the vkeyboard, you could use sequences, like left-down-left-left-right-up-down-select |
| 13:53:11 | amiconn | Unsing left/right/up/down give means entering 2 bits per button press, not too bad |
| 13:53:26 | amiconn | *Using, -give |
| 13:54:06 | amiconn | Im not sure how well such sequences can be remembered though |
| 13:54:46 | amiconn | For decent security we would need >64 bits, meaning >32-button-sequence |
| 13:55:14 | | Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (n=paulthen@cpe-66-68-93-2.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 13:55:29 | * | amiconn should read the logs more thoroughly |
| 13:58:07 | XavierGr | Logs are gone for the October. |
| 13:58:08 | _FireFly_ | i have a test-version with combined-bitmaps in wps(only main-lcd) ready. |
| 13:58:48 | _FireFly_ | if someone want to test it can be grapped here:http://home.arcor.de/s.wezel/rockbox-combined-bmp-wps.zip |
| 13:58:50 | Paul_The_Nerd | Why not just use some public/private key method. Your data can't be decrypted on-box like that, but you'd be able to encrypt using open with making at least "securing" data on your box very simple? |
| 13:59:10 | _FireFly_ | a test wps is included |
| 13:59:25 | B4gder | what's "combined" bitmaps? |
| 13:59:45 | _FireFly_ | e.g. 4 bitmaps are in one bitmap |
| 13:59:54 | Paul_The_Nerd | One .bmp file, that you use regions of, instead of the whole image. |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:23 | _FireFly_ | the iriver firmware uses combined-bitmap e.g. for the file-format (ogg, mp3) |
| 14:00:31 | XavierGr | What about integrating this bitmap on the WPS file? |
| 14:00:48 | _FireFly_ | ?? |
| 14:00:55 | XavierGr | or is this an idiotic idea? |
| 14:01:11 | _FireFly_ | i don't understand what do you mean |
| 14:01:18 | XavierGr | Like comments. |
| 14:01:29 | XavierGr | you have the notmal WPS syntax. |
| 14:01:44 | XavierGr | and then you can have the bitmap in side the wps. |
| 14:02:07 | XavierGr | Then the code will check if the code has a bitmap segment and draw the pictures. |
| 14:02:26 | Paul_The_Nerd | XavierGr: That'd make it awfully hard to edit the wps using a simple text editor |
| 14:02:33 | XavierGr | Though someone will have to copy the actuall bitmap data inside the WPS |
| 14:03:41 | XavierGr | Well it can clearly be after the wps syntax, but yeah maybe. |
| 14:03:48 | thegeek_ | that sounds like a horrible idea |
| 14:04:26 | thegeek_ | I agree there should be some "standard" for distributing a wps |
| 14:04:30 | XavierGr | ok I should stop talking then :p |
| 14:04:34 | thegeek_ | with folders for the imagee and stuff |
| 14:04:41 | Paul_The_Nerd | I think integrating it into the .wps itself may not be the best idea. But perhaps removing the ability for a wps to load separate bitmap files |
| 14:04:52 | thegeek_ | but combining the actual bitmap data and the wps config itself... bah |
| 14:04:58 | Paul_The_Nerd | Then, the .wps will automatically load a same-named .bmp (Bob.wps + Bob.bmp) and you only use parts. |
| 14:05:01 | B4gder | I think we should (try to) load images from the same dir as the WPS itself is located in |
| 14:05:05 | Paul_The_Nerd | If you wanted to go the way of standardizing it. |
| 14:05:31 | thegeek_ | I dont like that either Paul_The_Nerd |
| 14:05:36 | thegeek_ | why make it harder? |
| 14:05:50 | thegeek_ | keeping the images separate is best, why would you want to combine them |
| 14:06:08 | Paul_The_Nerd | Well for one thing, less files. |
| 14:06:16 | thegeek_ | hardly worth it though |
| 14:06:24 | Paul_The_Nerd | Depends on how you define worth. |
| 14:06:29 | thegeek_ | well |
| 14:06:38 | thegeek_ | how would you combine them into one image? |
| 14:06:51 | thegeek_ | the different images would have different sizes |
| 14:07:02 | thegeek_ | so no winamp-style standard |
| 14:07:19 | thegeek_ | that means you have to define x-y coords or something in the cfg |
| 14:07:34 | thegeek_ | and you cant just copy out one image or replace one image with another |
| 14:07:38 | _FireFly_ | look at my example wps in the zip fiel ;) |
| 14:07:42 | thegeek_ | you have to edit that single image |
| 14:08:03 | _FireFly_ | file |
| 14:08:05 | thegeek_ | just load images from the same folder as the wps itself, if that fails, try to load from "wpsname"-folder relative to the wps-config itself |
| 14:08:12 | thegeek_ | dont make it harder than it has to be |
| 14:08:24 | Paul_The_Nerd | Some of us don't want to have a separate folder for each WPS though thegeek_ |
| 14:08:38 | thegeek_ | then make a third option |
| 14:08:50 | thegeek_ | try to load from /.rockbox/wps/images |
| 14:08:53 | Paul_The_Nerd | I suppose, you could have bob.wps and then a dir named bob, under which all the BMPs were |
| 14:08:54 | Bger_cgiirc | it seems the operation in MixColumns is xor ... |
| 14:08:58 | thegeek_ | just make it fallback |
| 14:09:08 | Paul_The_Nerd | But bob.wps doesn't go *in* the bob folder |
| 14:09:23 | thegeek_ | that was my second option there |
| 14:09:31 | Paul_The_Nerd | That way you have .rockbox/wps/bob.wps then .rockbox/wps/bob/*.bmp as the bmps it autoloads. |
| 14:09:31 | thegeek_ | and yeah |
| 14:09:34 | thegeek_ | that would work well |
| 14:09:42 | thegeek_ | mhm |
| 14:09:47 | Paul_The_Nerd | But again, if you autoload files, then you can't use them inside the WPS as a-z A-Z |
| 14:09:53 | Paul_The_Nerd | Unless you know what order they're loaded in. |
| 14:10:02 | Paul_The_Nerd | You'd have to address them by filename, and that bloats the .wps size |
| 14:10:06 | thegeek_ | autoload? |
| 14:10:11 | thegeek_ | well |
| 14:10:18 | thegeek_ | bloats the wps size.. |
| 14:10:26 | thegeek_ | that's bullshit |
| 14:10:30 | thegeek_ | just keep the filenames short then |
| 14:10:44 | Paul_The_Nerd | Even then, they'd have to be one-character to match it. |
| 14:10:45 | thegeek_ | it's not like the wps-config-format is optimized for bytesize |
| 14:11:02 | Paul_The_Nerd | It's hardly optimized, but it's still limited to a set number of bytes. |
| 14:11:16 | thegeek_ | increase that limit then;) |
| 14:11:31 | Paul_The_Nerd | Why? |
| 14:11:40 | Paul_The_Nerd | The current system works. |
| 14:11:46 | thegeek_ | indeed it does |
| 14:11:54 | thegeek_ | and you complain that it's limited? |
| 14:11:59 | | Join webguest71 [0] (n=c2489e63@labb.contactor.se) |
| 14:12:05 | Paul_The_Nerd | I never complained that it was limited. |
| 14:12:14 | thegeek_ | hmm |
| 14:12:27 | thegeek_ | you said it was limited to a set number of bytes? |
| 14:12:31 | Paul_The_Nerd | All I said was "If you want to standardize, using parting you could do it this way." |
| 14:12:37 | thegeek_ | well |
| 14:12:47 | thegeek_ | autoloading images is not a good idea |
| 14:12:59 | thegeek_ | having to reference each image is not that horrible |
| 14:13:17 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 14:13:30 | XavierGr | well thegeek speak for yourself, maybe others will see that as a good option |
| 14:13:39 | thegeek_ | hehe;) |
| 14:13:39 | XavierGr | (though I don't know what I prefer) |
| 14:13:41 | thegeek_ | ofcourse |
| 14:13:51 | thegeek_ | but really |
| 14:13:58 | thegeek_ | if you "autoload" images |
| 14:14:12 | thegeek_ | you could very quickly end up confusing the different images |
| 14:14:21 | Paul_The_Nerd | You could use single character filenames for the autoload, but the problem is that in a non case sensitive environment, you're down to a-z rather than a-z A-Z |
| 14:14:24 | thegeek_ | I dont see how having to reference each image is bad |
| 14:14:36 | XavierGr | that why I awas talking about integrating the bMP inside the wps |
| 14:14:52 | Paul_The_Nerd | The problem with that is still that it's far too complex for most people. |
| 14:14:55 | thegeek_ | that is still a horrible idea |
| 14:15:02 | webguest71 | if you autoloaded ONE image you could use Firefly's method and "cut" every icon or other image out of te main one |
| 14:15:03 | Paul_The_Nerd | The WPS is still on the "difficult" end anyway, for a lot of users. |
| 14:15:04 | thegeek_ | we have to think ahead a bit here too |
| 14:15:11 | thegeek_ | you cant just put the image inside the wps |
| 14:15:18 | thegeek_ | especially when we get colour-screens |
| 14:15:22 | thegeek_ | and the images increase in size |
| 14:15:57 | XavierGr | that has nothing to do with the wps. |
| 14:16:09 | XavierGr | the images will still be there if they are in a saperate folder. |
| 14:16:09 | thegeek_ | yes it does? |
| 14:16:20 | thegeek_ | you said |
| 14:16:21 | XavierGr | only difference it will be on a single file. (all of them) |
| 14:16:22 | thegeek_ | inside the wps |
| 14:16:31 | thegeek_ | as in inside the wps file itself? |
| 14:16:39 | XavierGr | yes |
| 14:16:41 | thegeek_ | the wps file is a textfile |
| 14:16:53 | XavierGr | so... |
| 14:16:57 | thegeek_ | what will you do when we get full-colour screens |
| 14:17:00 | XavierGr | bmp is ascii characters |
| 14:17:08 | Paul_The_Nerd | There's still another issue. |
| 14:17:11 | thegeek_ | and the images start getting really big |
| 14:17:22 | thegeek_ | putting that inside a textfile |
| 14:17:26 | thegeek_ | is just a horrible horrible idea |
| 14:17:31 | XavierGr | again the bmps will be after the syntax |
| 14:17:34 | Paul_The_Nerd | Why really bother with more stuff for the current WPS format anyway, in the end? |
| 14:17:36 | thegeek_ | so? |
| 14:17:42 | thegeek_ | still horrible |
| 14:17:42 | thegeek_ | ;) |
| 14:17:51 | thegeek_ | keep images out of textfiles |
| 14:17:54 | Paul_The_Nerd | When ideally someone could actually take advantage of the bitmap screens and do per pixel positioning. |
| 14:17:54 | thegeek_ | why do it? |
| 14:18:01 | thegeek_ | why not keep them as separate files |
| 14:18:11 | webguest71 | i don't see the need for putting it in the wps - one text wps file and one graphics bmp file (same root name) is not that hard to handle |
| 14:18:17 | Bger_cgiirc | Odds of being killed by lightning (per day) 2^33 hehe |
| 14:18:22 | XavierGr | Well yes I don't think that we need to change the wps format, just talking and once you mentioned combined images... |
| 14:18:25 | _FireFly_ | oh no what have i done ?? ;) |
| 14:18:43 | Paul_The_Nerd | webguest71: The problem with that is, you still have the issue of "what happens when individual images within it are different shapes" |
| 14:18:48 | Paul_The_Nerd | You ahve a lot of wasted space. |
| 14:18:52 | thegeek_ | yes |
| 14:18:55 | thegeek_ | as I said |
| 14:19:00 | thegeek_ | keep them as separate files |
| 14:19:17 | | Quit Febs (Connection timed out) |
| 14:19:21 | thegeek_ | perhaps make a better folder-structure, but that's it |
| 14:19:33 | webguest71 | is that wasted space that critical? |
| 14:19:52 | Paul_The_Nerd | Well, for one thing, I don't know how the parting code works yet. |
| 14:20:12 | Paul_The_Nerd | So, I don't know if you define upper left and lower right corner within the bitmap (which would mean that it'd be easy for people to use" |
| 14:20:26 | _FireFly_ | am 5 files with one image inside are bigger than one file with all 5 images inside |
| 14:20:27 | Paul_The_Nerd | Or if you define width and height of the tiles, and it auto-parses the .bmp |
| 14:20:36 | thegeek_ | I dont see _any_ benefit to putting all images inside one large image |
| 14:20:40 | thegeek_ | less files, but so? |
| 14:20:43 | amiconn | The space-waste isn't the problem, but loading heaps of small files takes longer than loading one bigger file |
| 14:20:52 | thegeek_ | hmm |
| 14:20:57 | amiconn | It should also help keeping the .wps file size down |
| 14:21:00 | thegeek_ | why is that? |
| 14:21:03 | _FireFly_ | i have compared my play-mode.bmp with the 5 seperate files from which i have created |
| 14:21:06 | amiconn | ...and reduce the file clutter |
| 14:21:31 | _FireFly_ | the 5 files have a size 458 bytes (all summed) and the one file only 210Bytes |
| 14:21:32 | thegeek_ | I think just organizing the wps system would prevent clutter |
| 14:21:35 | B4gder | but make it harder to do a wps and harder to share images between wpses |
| 14:21:38 | _FireFly_ | the size is reduced half |
| 14:21:40 | amiconn | I didn't say we should drop multi-file support, but of course we could do that with clipping support |
| 14:21:46 | webguest71 | _FireFly_ I like it what you've done - could lead to different skins for a wps file |
| 14:21:49 | webguest71 | _firefly_ obviously different wpses with different cuts would need different graphics |
| 14:22:32 | amiconn | Keeping multi-file support and adding clipping support is most flexible, dropping multi-file support in favour of clipping support would probably save some more |
| 14:22:57 | _FireFly_ | my currently implementation have both |
| 14:23:10 | _FireFly_ | it supports combined bitmaps and seperate bitmaps |
| 14:23:11 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah, I'm definitely not arguing for dropping multi file |
| 14:23:26 | XavierGr | then its settled |
| 14:23:26 | _FireFly_ | my example wps has both in use |
| 14:23:49 | _FireFly_ | http://home.arcor.de/s.wezel/rockbox-combined-bmp-wps.zip |
| 14:23:51 | Paul_The_Nerd | I was just arguing one side in an "If multi file was going to be dropped" case. |
| 14:23:52 | XavierGr | when this is going for commitment? |
| 14:25:23 | * | Paul_The_Nerd still wishes %s didn't make the whole line scroll. |
| 14:25:46 | B4gder | I think it should |
| 14:25:54 | B4gder | but I have an idea on how to make things better |
| 14:26:05 | XavierGr | well he means that he wants to choose. |
| 14:26:11 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 14:26:21 | Paul_The_Nerd | Well, for example, one way would be to have everything to the right of it scroll |
| 14:26:28 | Paul_The_Nerd | You want the whole line to scroll, you put it first. |
| 14:26:38 | webguest71 | what ever happened to the idea about moving away from a line based wps system? |
| 14:26:55 | XavierGr | for some occasions that you want: 1. (scroll)Title |
| 14:26:56 | B4gder | my idea "fixes" that |
| 14:27:04 | B4gder | but still remains line-based |
| 14:27:26 | Paul_The_Nerd | What's your idea B4gder? |
| 14:27:27 | XavierGr | then implement B4gder! |
| 14:27:27 | B4gder | by allowing the WPS to create a set of "boxes" |
| 14:27:36 | B4gder | each box being line-based like today |
| 14:27:53 | amiconn | Imho line based design is too inflexibe as soon as we allow multiple fonts |
| 14:27:54 | Paul_The_Nerd | But the question is, are you basing on a number of characters for width? |
| 14:28:03 | B4gder | so the current wps would be a box for the whole screen |
| 14:28:14 | amiconn | Ah yes, the box design being what I am considering fro quite some time |
| 14:28:20 | B4gder | each box would be pixel specified |
| 14:28:44 | amiconn | That's quite different from what I have in mind though, and imho more complex |
| 14:28:56 | B4gder | we'd only need to a way to specify "the following data will be within a box with this size/coords" |
| 14:29:11 | webguest71 | there was a post about a box system that was backwards compatible with current system |
| 14:29:12 | B4gder | I've tried to come up with a way that would use more or less the current syntax |
| 14:29:16 | webguest71 | http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=874.0 |
| 14:29:26 | amiconn | I'd rather base everything on boxes, defined by pixel coordinates |
| 14:29:51 | B4gder | why not line-based within the boxes? |
| 14:30:13 | Paul_The_Nerd | So, you're basically implementing an overly simplified CSS box model... Or perhaps arbitrary frames. :-P |
| 14:30:14 | amiconn | Then we have lines in boxes, awfully ugly to handle for scrolling |
| 14:30:16 | B4gder | I bet most people will think lines wthin them |
| 14:30:31 | B4gder | amiconn: no, you'd convert those to pixels for the scrolling |
| 14:30:51 | amiconn | Imho a box should always contain one line of text only, possibly scrolling, and using the same font |
| 14:31:00 | amiconn | Different boxes could use different fonts |
| 14:31:13 | B4gder | then you can't do the current wps syntax |
| 14:31:19 | B4gder | which my suggestion would |
| 14:31:39 | amiconn | You want backwards compatibility at the cost of increased complexity? |
| 14:31:42 | B4gder | my would even work with the exact wps files of today |
| 14:31:49 | Paul_The_Nerd | You could always write a new wps handler. .wp2 files, or something |
| 14:31:53 | B4gder | I don't see it as increased complexity |
| 14:32:00 | Paul_The_Nerd | As it is, my computer always wants to open my .wps in OpenOffice. |
| 14:32:58 | | Quit webguest71 ("CGI:IRC") |
| 14:33:27 | amiconn | The single-line box design would make things rather simple when it comes to things like multiple fonts, font attributes, foreground & background colours/shades, scrolling attribute etc |
| 14:33:48 | B4gder | not really |
| 14:33:50 | amiconn | Each box would have its set of attributes |
| 14:33:57 | B4gder | only if you'd allow different ones within the same box |
| 14:34:10 | amiconn | No, that's the whole point of my suggestion |
| 14:34:26 | B4gder | but then why rule out having more than one line using the same style? |
| 14:34:26 | amiconn | YOu would need to allow that with multi-line boxes |
| 14:35:04 | amiconn | Why would I rule this out? |
| 14:35:14 | B4gder | I don't, you did |
| 14:35:22 | B4gder | you said it would only be one line |
| 14:35:27 | amiconn | No I didn't |
| 14:35:32 | B4gder | ok, then I misunderstood |
| 14:35:38 | B4gder | then our suggestions are basically the same |
| 14:35:38 | amiconn | Yes. You would simply define a second box |
| 14:36:09 | amiconn | In fact we can combine both suggestions with keeping the current wps format |
| 14:36:12 | B4gder | ...and current WPS would simply be a full screen box |
| 14:36:18 | amiconn | No |
| 14:36:25 | B4gder | why not? |
| 14:36:41 | amiconn | ...combined with my idea of coordinate changes not applied until explicitly specified |
| 14:36:49 | amiconn | My idea is now as follows: |
| 14:37:25 | amiconn | Each line in a wps implicitly starts a new box definition (unless it's a special line loading an image or such) |
| 14:38:07 | amiconn | ...but as long as you don't specify coordinates, this box would be x=0, width=lcd_width, y=old_y+font_height, height=font_height |
| 14:38:50 | amiconn | This way, every line of a 'classic' wps would be its own box, without a format change |
| 14:39:09 | amiconn | ...and it's still possible to define boxes by special tags used at the start of the line |
| 14:40:19 | amiconn | ...and in these tags, every coordinate value that's not explicitly specified would preserve its previous value (in a logical way, meaning the y coordinate will be incremented by font_height) |
| 14:40:54 | Bger_cgiirc | amiconn: i see it this way too |
| 14:41:22 | XavierGr | all these sound great, but isn't a pain to implement all that? |
| 14:41:26 | B4gder | well, the result would be the exact same as in my way of seeing it |
| 14:41:44 | B4gder | but I would consider them all to be lines within a single box |
| 14:41:50 | amiconn | ...the same way as my suggestion for partial images is to leave out coordinate values that didn't change from the previous declaration, in order to save space |
| 14:42:13 | amiconn | Unfortunately irc logging is broken :( |
| 14:42:49 | _FireFly_ | in my current implementation the leave out of some values and insteed use the last one doesn't work very well |
| 14:42:51 | amiconn | B4gder: Internally there's a big difference, because seeing each line as a separate box will make things easier, imho |
| 14:43:01 | | Join muesli- [0] (i=muesli_t@Bbca6.b.pppool.de) |
| 14:43:02 | amiconn | From a user's perspective, they are the same |
| 14:43:03 | _FireFly_ | mybe i have make a failure |
| 14:43:10 | B4gder | well I don't see the hard connection between the WPS and the internal representation |
| 14:43:14 | muesli- | re |
| 14:43:28 | B4gder | but it doesn't matter |
| 14:44:54 | amiconn | My suggestion would e.g allow a rather elegant way of declaring a 2-column wps, even when both columns use fonts with different heights |
| 14:45:26 | amiconn | Only 2 boxes would need to be declared explicitly, and not even fully |
| 14:45:38 | B4gder | so would it in my way too ;-) |
| 14:45:50 | B4gder | but again, they're almost the same |
| 14:46:06 | amiconn | The first line of the left column would set the width to lcd_width/2, then all lines for the left colum follow |
| 14:46:25 | amiconn | The first line of the right column would need to set x and y (only) |
| 14:46:27 | | Nick TiMiD[ZZZzzz] is now known as TiMiD (n=TiMiD[FD@asgard.valombre.net) |
| 14:46:27 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK TiMiD |
| 14:46:32 | TiMiD | hi |
| 14:46:54 | _FireFly_ | hi TiMiD |
| 14:46:57 | Paul_The_Nerd | Hello TiMiD |
| 14:46:59 | XavierGr | hi TiMiD! any update on the remote? |
| 14:47:14 | TiMiD | slowly progressing |
| 14:47:29 | TiMiD | I'm documenting undocumented code parts |
| 14:47:30 | XavierGr | what's your status currently? |
| 14:47:44 | muesli- | any progress is progress ;) |
| 14:47:48 | XavierGr | good |
| 14:48:07 | TiMiD | I have the directory browsing working but far from complete |
| 14:48:15 | XavierGr | I mean what can you render on the remote right now? |
| 14:48:21 | TiMiD | since a lot of things are unneeded in the code now |
| 14:48:45 | XavierGr | so you have filetree rendering on the remote? |
| 14:48:54 | TiMiD | yes |
| 14:48:59 | TiMiD | but it's not clean |
| 14:49:21 | TiMiD | I must change lots of things in apps using the tree infos |
| 14:49:39 | TiMiD | because the data structure is a little different |
| 14:49:40 | Paul_The_Nerd | Question: Were you planning on using two separate wps files, or one file with two parts? |
| 14:50:14 | TiMiD | me ? |
| 14:50:19 | amiconn | B4gder: Perhaps I'm just thinking more about the internal representation... |
| 14:50:23 | XavierGr | I think that keeping the same wps (and dropping the lines that don't fit) is good. |
| 14:50:41 | TiMiD | I think 2 wps would be very good :) |
| 14:50:55 | Paul_The_Nerd | Okay |
| 14:51:01 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 14:51:01 | * | Paul_The_Nerd prefers two files as well. |
| 14:51:02 | amiconn | TiMiD: Gets my vote |
| 14:51:08 | _FireFly_ | a similar thing which i have made?? |
| 14:51:31 | | Join preglow [0] (n=thomjoha@hekta.edt.aft.hist.no) |
| 14:51:44 | | Quit muesli- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 14:52:11 | TiMiD | _FireFly_: well when I will be finished with tree, and if what I've done is accepted, maybe you could try to port wps to the remote the way I did it with filetree |
| 14:52:26 | _FireFly_ | i could try :) |
| 14:52:31 | TiMiD | since you may be more familiar with the code than me :) |
| 14:53:16 | TiMiD | (and there is a lot of work remaining, too much for me :P) |
| 14:53:52 | TiMiD | tree and wps are the most difficult parts I think |
| 14:54:16 | TiMiD | mainly because code is not very well documented and it takes a lot of time to understant how it works |
| 14:54:46 | B4gder | I'm not sure the wps should/could be done the same way as the tree code |
| 14:56:18 | TiMiD | I don't know since I didn't looked closely at the code |
| 14:56:59 | XavierGr | tree is the most difficult part I think. |
| 14:57:17 | XavierGr | I was lost when I attempted to make a remote patch. |
| 14:57:35 | TiMiD | but the principle is simple : be able to render on any screen independantly and then call the rendering process nb_screens times :) |
| 14:57:45 | TiMiD | XavierGr: same thing here :p |
| 14:57:53 | TiMiD | it's like hell ^^ |
| 14:58:12 | XavierGr | but I think that menu.c will be easy to do. |
| 14:58:22 | TiMiD | yes since it's hard_coded |
| 14:58:35 | TiMiD | I wans thinking of something crazy |
| 14:58:41 | TiMiD | for the menus |
| 14:58:47 | TiMiD | since we have dircache |
| 14:58:55 | TiMiD | menus could be just files and dirs |
| 14:58:57 | XavierGr | LinusN: I just sent you a mail with the latest radio.patch. I really hope that you will find some time to inspect it. |
| 14:59:07 | TiMiD | cached |
| 14:59:53 | XavierGr | TiMiD:? |
| 14:59:55 | TiMiD | files would describe options and would be read by a viewer |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:16 | TiMiD | (but it's just an idea) |
| 15:00:56 | Paul_The_Nerd | What's the benefit in doing that? |
| 15:01:28 | TiMiD | Paul_The_Nerd: ultra-customizabel menus |
| 15:01:34 | amiconn | TiMiD: That's a really odd idea |
| 15:01:36 | Paul_The_Nerd | How so though? |
| 15:01:51 | Paul_The_Nerd | I mean, even with the files, something still needs to interpret and handle them |
| 15:01:57 | amiconn | ...and I can only find reasons against it |
| 15:01:58 | TiMiD | yes |
| 15:01:59 | Paul_The_Nerd | That means that you can only have options relating to what you've planned for. |
| 15:02:08 | Paul_The_Nerd | Which is the same as having those options static and present. |
| 15:02:47 | amiconn | ...the most important being that the dircache isn't mandatory (luckily), and it's not available on all platforms |
| 15:03:05 | TiMiD | amiconn: ok so it's impossible |
| 15:03:44 | Paul_The_Nerd | amiconn: What are the disadvantages of the dircache itself, do you know? |
| 15:03:48 | TiMiD | (btw, I wasn't planning on that, just an idea to remove most of the menus code |
| 15:03:59 | amiconn | Paul_The_Nerd: Yes, it needs RAM |
| 15:04:14 | TiMiD | but it should be possible if the dircache only caches the menus rep all the time |
| 15:04:16 | XavierGr | <400kb though |
| 15:04:32 | Paul_The_Nerd | Where does it take it from, and how does this impact the average user? |
| 15:04:47 | amiconn | TiMiD: Currently the menu structures are compiled in, and they're const |
| 15:04:59 | XavierGr | well smaller ram means a little bit smaller buffer. |
| 15:05:07 | linuxstb | Paul_The_Nerd: The audio buffer. So the disk will have to spin up more often during playback. |
| 15:05:11 | amiconn | ...meaning that they can be read from ROM on archos when using rombox |
| 15:05:11 | XavierGr | so this means that the disk will spin up a little more. |
| 15:05:21 | XavierGr | BUT the disk will not spin up when browsing |
| 15:05:23 | amiconn | ...leaving precious RAM free for buffering |
| 15:05:30 | TiMiD | amiconn: I know, I looked before starting working |
| 15:05:41 | XavierGr | and if you browse a lot... well you get the idea. |
| 15:05:52 | TiMiD | I browse a lot :) |
| 15:06:01 | amiconn | XavierGr: I know. It means that it depends on usage pattern |
| 15:06:11 | TiMiD | but I don't think it will improve the battery lifetime |
| 15:06:15 | XavierGr | amiconn: off course |
| 15:06:30 | amiconn | I don't browse a lot, most of the time I just resume after startup (possibly after loading a different .cfg - from the root) |
| 15:06:38 | TiMiD | because when you browse it's to play a file and the disk still needs to spin up ... |
| 15:07:25 | XavierGr | yes that's true but thats not the case with the radio, or when you are searching for something to play. |
| 15:07:57 | Paul_The_Nerd | So, Dircache is a convenience feature at a slight impact to battery life (most likely)? |
| 15:08:32 | amiconn | Dircache is a convenience feature that might increase or decrease battery runtime, depending on usage |
| 15:08:53 | XavierGr | well said |
| 15:09:03 | preglow | ooh, new patch |
| 15:09:05 | Paul_The_Nerd | But you'd have to do a lot of browsing relative to listening for it to have that sort of impact, no? |
| 15:09:18 | preglow | nice, can't contact my dev box... |
| 15:09:24 | XavierGr | yeah maybe. |
| 15:09:30 | Paul_The_Nerd | Though I imagine it'd be a very marginal difference either way. |
| 15:09:47 | linuxstb | Slasheri (I think) also made the point that some people have a long spindown timeout to help increase browsing speed. Those users can now reduce the spindown time to almost nothing. |
| 15:09:55 | XavierGr | but even then the battery wasted on the cache I think is very small. |
| 15:10:19 | B4gder | if you use a 1MB cache, that could be a minute of music |
| 15:10:21 | XavierGr | of course. That's what I did when I used the dircache! |
| 15:10:29 | amiconn | Depends on how large the cache is |
| 15:10:39 | amiconn | ...in relation to the main RAM |
| 15:10:44 | XavierGr | but the cache is lower than 400 kb |
| 15:10:49 | amiconn | Thinking about H100 having only 16MB |
| 15:10:56 | XavierGr | yeah on archos it might have major difference. |
| 15:10:57 | TiMiD | people who browse a lot (like me) don't use the full cache (I change music every 1 or 2 songs) :) |
| 15:11:07 | linuxstb | I think the other main argument against it was that it increases code complexity and therefore the chances of bugs. |
| 15:11:11 | amiconn | On archos the full dircache is a no-no |
| 15:11:29 | XavierGr | so dircache is iriver specific? |
| 15:11:37 | amiconn | linuxstb: yes, that too |
| 15:11:39 | B4gder | >8MB model specific |
| 15:11:56 | Paul_The_Nerd | I don't browse much, but I hit next track *alot* at about halfway. |
| 15:12:04 | XavierGr | what were they thinking. 2MB ram? |
| 15:12:12 | Paul_The_Nerd | I probably have the worst possible battery life use pattern. |
| 15:12:19 | amiconn | It _might_ be feasible on archoses with 8MB mod, if you browse like hell |
| 15:12:24 | B4gder | XavierGr: they were the 2nd commercial mp3 player available |
| 15:12:32 | XavierGr | 1st? |
| 15:12:51 | * | dwihno is also curious |
| 15:13:26 | Paul_The_Nerd | My boss actually got angry with me when I tried to explain to him that the iPod was not the first MP3 player, and in fact nowhere near it. He was so sure of himself. |
| 15:13:41 | amiconn | Paul_The_Nerd: Even when hitting next track, the dircache helps saving a tiny bit of battery, because the directory information is read from the cache instead of the disk |
| 15:13:42 | dwihno | eeeehm. |
| 15:13:50 | XavierGr | dont talk to ipod fan boys. |
| 15:13:57 | B4gder | Hm, zagor wrote a page once about the very first players... |
| 15:14:00 | dwihno | I got a parallell RIO 300 (I think it was) before the new millennium |
| 15:14:09 | dwihno | 32 meg internal storage |
| 15:14:18 | amiconn | Iirc archos players were around back in 2000... |
| 15:14:24 | Paul_The_Nerd | Saehan's MPMan <−−- 1998 |
| 15:14:36 | dwihno | Paid roughly 1500 SEK for 32 megs of smartmedia ;) |
| 15:14:45 | dwihno | (divide by ~7 for USD) |
| 15:14:48 | Paul_The_Nerd | Apparently released in the US under a different brand, but same product name a few months before the Diamond Rio, commonly considered the first. |
| 15:15:14 | Bger_cgiirc | LinusN: any news on h3x0 ? |
| 15:15:17 | Paul_The_Nerd | XavierGr: I actually just asked him why he picked it over other players. |
| 15:15:23 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:15:28 | Paul_The_Nerd | His response "It's the first, so you know it has to be the best." |
| 15:15:39 | Bger_cgiirc | ("THE question") |
| 15:15:39 | XavierGr | bwahahahah! |
| 15:15:40 | B4gder | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_audio_player |
| 15:15:46 | Paul_The_Nerd | I know |
| 15:15:52 | | Quit ashridah ("Leaving") |
| 15:15:59 | Paul_The_Nerd | I *almost* asked him if he still watched Black and White television. |
| 15:16:24 | Bger_cgiirc | hahaha :) |
| 15:16:48 | Bger_cgiirc | this is a HIT |
| 15:17:25 | amiconn | Slasheri: How much does dircaching add to binary size? |
| 15:17:50 | _FireFly_ | ah i found the bugin my parsing code for creating parts of combined bitmaps;) |
| 15:17:53 | Zagor | http://www.rockbox.org/playerhistory/ |
| 15:18:27 | B4gder | ah, _there_ |
| 15:18:43 | _FireFly_ | now it works also correct when some values are left off so that the last one will be used |
| 15:19:30 | dwihno | Wee! |
| 15:19:33 | dwihno | Zagor: That was cool! |
| 15:19:48 | _FireFly_ | e.g. %xp|i|v|0|0|12|16|0|13| |
| 15:19:49 | _FireFly_ | %xp|j|v||16||||| |
| 15:19:56 | _FireFly_ | this works now correctly |
| 15:20:24 | Slasheri | amiconn: Hmm, i will measure that when i get to home (soon) |
| 15:21:04 | Slasheri | of course it increases the binary size but only for iriver (so that shouldn't be a problem) |
| 15:21:30 | amiconn | Yes of course. I'm just interested in how much it is |
| 15:21:51 | amiconn | (related to my remark about 8MB-modded archoses) |
| 15:22:02 | Slasheri | ah, yes |
| 15:22:18 | Slasheri | but now i will go, cu later -> |
| 15:22:25 | _FireFly_ | amiconn with my remote-patchset+dircache+combined-bitmaps the size of the rockbox.iriver is 265632 bytes |
| 15:22:28 | _FireFly_ | cu |
| 15:23:34 | linuxstb | The last rockbox.iriver I built was 246472 bytes. |
| 15:23:35 | XavierGr | amiconn: what is wrong with binary size, I thought you solved that? |
| 15:24:23 | B4gder | it cannot be solved |
| 15:24:34 | B4gder | its a limit in what files the Archoses load or not |
| 15:24:42 | _FireFly_ | each new feature will increase the binary size |
| 15:24:51 | amiconn | We now know that the limit fr fmr, v2 and Ondio is much higher than we thought |
| 15:24:52 | B4gder | really? ;-) |
| 15:25:17 | amiconn | ...so now the most problematic target is the recorder v1 |
| 15:25:34 | B4gder | yeps |
| 15:25:50 | XavierGr | yes I know that a new feature will set the binary size to a greater value. I just thought that you found something to by pass it. At least temporary. |
| 15:26:02 | Paul_The_Nerd | I thought there was some talk about having the firmware itself be stripped down, and have it load the rest... or something like that? |
| 15:26:27 | B4gder | uh, right, _that_ is actually the only fix |
| 15:26:38 | XavierGr | so how much binary size is left for the v1 recorder? |
| 15:27:08 | amiconn | Even if we don't hit the limit, or work around it, too large binaries are no good |
| 15:27:26 | amiconn | They eat precious RAM (not all archoses can be flashed) |
| 15:27:52 | XavierGr | 248.500 with the fm preset patch. |
| 15:28:02 | amiconn | XavierGr: Player and recorder v1 allow for 200KByte, fm recorder, recorder v2 and Ondios allow 400KByte |
| 15:28:06 | XavierGr | 2 kb |
| 15:28:39 | XavierGr | does a plugin has to do with the binary size? |
| 15:28:42 | TiMiD | are you using gcc -Os ? |
| 15:28:46 | Bger_cgiirc | hm, Rio is out of the DAP business |
| 15:29:05 | XavierGr | I use devkit which hasnt the latest gcc |
| 15:29:28 | TiMiD | -Os is available in old gcc :) |
| 15:29:47 | XavierGr | I thought you meant gcc version. |
| 15:30:21 | TiMiD | I don't think it's activated in the makefiles I saw (but there must be a reason for that because when I tried to use -O2 the firware had strange behaviours) |
| 15:30:40 | amiconn | TiMiD: No, we're using plain -O |
| 15:30:59 | amiconn | (and some specific flags, lie -fomit-frame-pointer) |
| 15:31:04 | amiconn | *like |
| 15:31:21 | TiMiD | would it work with -Os ? |
| 15:31:53 | amiconn | With -O2 and -Os gcc goofs on some optimisations, so rockbox crashes on archos |
| 15:32:33 | amiconn | I know a workaround which works with gcc 3.3.x, but gcc 3.4.0 and higher have more problems which I didn't find yet |
| 15:32:56 | XavierGr | so does a plug-in adds binary size? |
| 15:33:05 | amiconn | XavierGr: No |
| 15:33:34 | XavierGr | great. Then it shouldnt matter if my jpeg scrolling patch gets comitted. |
| 15:34:09 | amiconn | (as long as it doesn't require additional core functions to be exported, in which case the plugin api struct size increases a bit) |
| 15:35:27 | amiconn | Plugins have a size limit themselves |
| 15:44:45 | Bger_cgiirc | any idea what does "static u8 ...[] __initdata" mean ? |
| 15:44:55 | Bger_cgiirc | in linux kernel source |
| 15:45:32 | linuxstb | My understanding is that it tells the linker to place it in the __initdata section. |
| 15:45:58 | Bger_cgiirc | what's specific about this section ? |
| 15:45:59 | B4gder | yeps, used by the module loader iirc |
| 15:46:30 | Bger_cgiirc | memset-ed to 0? or? |
| 15:50:22 | B4gder | it is described in Documentation/Docbook/kernel-hacking.tmpl |
| 15:51:05 | Bger_cgiirc | 10x |
| 15:51:51 | | Part amiconn |
| 16:00 |
| 16:03:32 | | Quit B4gder ("time to say moo") |
| 16:09:00 | Bger_cgiirc | *that* is quit message |
| 16:09:32 | Paul_The_Nerd | Indeed |
| 16:14:51 | XavierGr | I agree. |
| 16:52:06 | | Join muesli- [0] (i=muesli_t@Bc1fd.b.pppool.de) |
| 16:53:13 | muesli- | re |
| 16:53:18 | Paul_The_Nerd | Welcome back. |
| 16:53:27 | muesli- | paul ;) |
| 16:53:50 | Paul_The_Nerd | Heh |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:43 | | Join muesli__ [0] (i=muesli_t@Bbc62.b.pppool.de) |
| 17:00:50 | muesli__ | re re ;) |
| 17:07:41 | | Join JoeBorn-having [0] (n=jborn@dsl017-022-247.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 17:12:57 | | Quit JoeBorn-having ("http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/neuros442linux-main") |
| 17:13:19 | | Join Ismo [0] (i=laitinei@huippu.net) |
| 17:14:07 | muesli__ | _FireFly_ didnt you like my request to increase rpws's file size :O ? |
| 17:14:40 | TiMiD | I'm more and more in favor of rewriting the whole tree.c . id3db.c, the code is insane :( |
| 17:15:27 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:18:52 | XavierGr | That would be huge work! |
| 17:18:59 | Bagder | double-huge |
| 17:19:09 | XavierGr | when you say insane you mean bad written? |
| 17:19:26 | | Quit muesli- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 17:24:11 | | Join paugh [0] (n=kickback@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822) |
| 17:24:12 | TiMiD | at the beginning, it should have been a pretty small code |
| 17:24:20 | | Quit JoeBorn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 17:24:21 | TiMiD | but now it's a 1500+ lines monster |
| 17:24:31 | TiMiD | and lots of programs interract with it |
| 17:25:01 | TiMiD | the way the interractions are handled is not very well done (duplicated code and so on) |
| 17:26:16 | TiMiD | I have the feeling that rewriting it using the lists widgets natively would be a good thing (cleaner code) |
| 17:26:34 | TiMiD | alos, separate file tree code from id3db code |
| 17:28:35 | _FireFly_ | muesli__: no i have currently no time to increase it ;) I'm playing with combined bitmaps |
| 17:28:48 | muesli__ | ;-( |
| 17:28:59 | TiMiD | ^^ |
| 17:30:00 | | Join Vlad0man [0] (n=Vladoman@p54A7C64C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:30:02 | muesli__ | for those who care.. if your file is bigger than the limit there are mistakes on the screen |
| 17:30:17 | _FireFly_ | muesli__: do you use my compiled version ?? |
| 17:30:23 | muesli__ | yepp |
| 17:33:06 | _FireFly_ | so size is to 1200 increased and it builds currently |
| 17:33:14 | TiMiD | well ugly-hacked tree browser seems to work well |
| 17:33:22 | muesli__ | cheers mate :D |
| 17:33:25 | TiMiD | time to catch my train ! |
| 17:33:34 | TiMiD | cu ! |
| 17:33:37 | _FireFly_ | cu |
| 17:33:43 | muesli__ | bye thegeek_ |
| 17:33:46 | muesli__ | TiMiD |
| 17:33:47 | muesli__ | ;) |
| 17:34:04 | | Nick TiMiD is now known as TiMiD[ParisAgain (n=TiMiD[FD@asgard.valombre.net) |
| 17:34:04 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK TiMiD[ParisAgain |
| 17:34:07 | TiMiD[ParisAgain | roh |
| 17:34:13 | TiMiD[ParisAgain | :) |
| 17:34:25 | muesli__ | _FireFly_ http://home.arcor.de/s.wezel/rockbox.zip this one? |
| 17:35:41 | XavierGr | Does the audio form the radio goes to the MAS? |
| 17:36:35 | _FireFly_ | muesli__: yepp now updated |
| 17:36:57 | muesli__ | :DDD |
| 17:37:10 | _FireFly_ | it has also the latest cvs-changes included |
| 17:37:22 | muesli__ | extra- :DDD |
| 17:38:01 | | Join einhirn [0] (i=Miranda@szgt-d9b8e4b5.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 17:38:26 | Paul_The_Nerd | What patches does that have on it? |
| 17:39:56 | | Quit grimreap (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 17:41:57 | muesli__ | hm...just experienced a strange thing... can *.wps and *.rwps share bmps? |
| 17:42:36 | _FireFly_ | muesli__: they are complete independend |
| 17:43:14 | _FireFly_ | Paul_The_Nerd: this build has the latest cvs-changes + my remote-patchset + dircache_rev2 |
| 17:43:17 | muesli__ | because when i activate a rwps my main screen changes |
| 17:43:40 | Paul_The_Nerd | Thank you _Firefly_ |
| 17:44:48 | _FireFly_ | how does it change ?? |
| 17:45:50 | muesli__ | it affects the main lcd |
| 17:46:02 | muesli__ | treats it like the remote |
| 17:46:14 | muesli__ | but maybe theres an error in that file..have to check out |
| 17:46:24 | Paul_The_Nerd | Wait, so you can change the remote's WPS now? |
| 17:46:32 | _FireFly_ | yepp |
| 17:47:01 | _FireFly_ | and have a seperate control over statusbar scrollbar and line-selector |
| 17:47:44 | Paul_The_Nerd | Nice |
| 17:47:50 | Paul_The_Nerd | I mean, I was happy with the remote's WPS |
| 17:48:01 | Paul_The_Nerd | But I was tired of seeing (No ID3) over, and over, and over, and over... |
| 17:48:02 | Paul_The_Nerd | ad infinitum |
| 17:49:06 | | Quit Vladoman (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 17:49:27 | markun | Does anyone know why there is no make on the tools dir during build? |
| 17:49:53 | _FireFly_ | you have do it your selfe |
| 17:49:57 | muesli__ | _FireFly_ have to check out my rpws..guess it contains still some errors |
| 17:50:52 | _FireFly_ | yepp i think it ,too because i have just tested the build |
| 17:50:59 | _FireFly_ | and i had no problems |
| 17:52:15 | muesli__ | i'Ve tried to transfer wps into my rwps...still quite buggy cause i have to understand what the code itself does ;) |
| 17:58:31 | Paul_The_Nerd | How do I enable dircache, by the way? |
| 17:59:08 | _FireFly_ | it gaves a menu-point for that |
| 17:59:21 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah, but I can't find it in the menus... I must be blind or something. |
| 17:59:47 | _FireFly_ | it's the same menu where you set up the spindown-time for the disk |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:02 | Paul_The_Nerd | Thank you. |
| 18:00:11 | Paul_The_Nerd | Are all wps tags valid in rwps? |
| 18:00:28 | _FireFly_ | yepp it should be |
| 18:00:43 | _FireFly_ | these tags, which i use in my rwps are working |
| 18:00:53 | _FireFly_ | at least |
| 18:02:34 | Paul_The_Nerd | Alright |
| 18:02:51 | Paul_The_Nerd | Thank you very much |
| 18:03:38 | paugh | ergh.. i enabled resume on start but now i'm stuck on a bad file. is there another way to unstick this other than removing that file via usb? |
| 18:03:56 | paugh | it just locks as soon as i start it (iriver h140) |
| 18:04:06 | XavierGr | Firefly why dont you make some settings for the scrolling of the remote? |
| 18:04:42 | XavierGr | paugh: Start original firmware and then delete that file. |
| 18:04:48 | XavierGr | then start rockbox |
| 18:05:10 | paugh | XavierGr, ah ok. cheers. |
| 18:05:46 | XavierGr | Firefly: It is is to add and it makes the remote much more usable. Currently the scrolling is very slow imho. |
| 18:05:47 | Paul_The_Nerd | I haven't encountered a music file that's frozen me consistently ever. |
| 18:05:50 | | Join arkascha [0] (n=arkascha@xdsl-213-196-211-154.netcologne.de) |
| 18:06:08 | XavierGr | I can send you a dif with the changes I made in settings.c and settings.h which enables scrolling. |
| 18:06:31 | XavierGr | Probably you don't use p2p for music :P |
| 18:06:39 | Paul_The_Nerd | Heh |
| 18:06:43 | XavierGr | (though me too, I have never encountered this) |
| 18:07:25 | Paul_The_Nerd | I primarily use "Insert CD in drive." "Rip CD using dBPoweramp to lossless wavpack" "Enjoy" |
| 18:08:02 | paugh | Paul_The_Nerd, i seem to have stacks of them. mostly oggs. probably encoded with an old version of the encoder. |
| 18:08:24 | Paul_The_Nerd | Aaah |
| 18:08:46 | _FireFly_ | XavierGr: send me the diff :) |
| 18:08:59 | XavierGr | okay |
| 18:09:01 | Paul_The_Nerd | I hate downloading music anyway |
| 18:09:03 | XavierGr | wait a sec |
| 18:09:15 | Paul_The_Nerd | I once found an album I really *really* wanted as FLACs and couldn't resist downloading it |
| 18:09:37 | Paul_The_Nerd | Upon listening to it, it was abundantly clear it had been originally encoded in a lossy format at a relatively low bitrate, then transcoded to FLAC. |
| 18:09:48 | _FireFly_ | ouch |
| 18:09:53 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 18:10:10 | _FireFly_ | there have someone missunderstood something ;) |
| 18:10:13 | paugh | yeah. weird that people do that |
| 18:10:51 | linuxstb | It probably went from CD -> MP3 -> CD -> FLAC. |
| 18:10:54 | Bger_cgiirc | in fact, someone asked here how to convert ogg (or it was mp3) to flac ... |
| 18:11:06 | Paul_The_Nerd | That's actually a pretty likely case linuxstb |
| 18:11:22 | Paul_The_Nerd | That's a little more understandable. |
| 18:11:35 | linuxstb | I know. It's how a lot of people copy CDs - because it's the default settings in their software. |
| 18:11:41 | XavierGr | hmm I have a very old version of the files. I will try and send you the specific changes. |
| 18:11:42 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 18:12:30 | linuxstb | Does anyone know how good (or bad) the "secure" mode in the Mac version of iTunes is? |
| 18:16:19 | fuzzie | if you mean the 'error correction', it's bad |
| 18:17:09 | XavierGr | Paul_The_Nerd: Why wavpack instead of FLAC? |
| 18:18:25 | | Join webguest76 [0] (n=c35c53f2@labb.contactor.se) |
| 18:19:24 | linuxstb | I assume it's because wavpack decodes a lot more efficiently in Rockbox. |
| 18:19:29 | Paul_The_Nerd | At the time FLAC was still not decoding realtime consistently |
| 18:19:35 | Bger_cgiirc | XavierGr: it seems that wavpack is better than FLAC |
| 18:19:38 | Paul_The_Nerd | I'd get pops and gaps in the music |
| 18:19:38 | Bger_cgiirc | and also makes smaller files |
| 18:19:59 | Bger_cgiirc | (in most cases) |
| 18:21:10 | Paul_The_Nerd | %s%?ia<%ia|%?d2<%d2|%?d1<Rock · box|>>> |
| 18:21:11 | Paul_The_Nerd | %s%?id<%id|%?d1<%d1|xob · kcoR>>%?iy< (%iy)|> |
| 18:21:13 | Paul_The_Nerd | Can anyone explain to me why if I don't have an extra line between these, they display on the same line? |
| 18:22:18 | XavierGr | FireFly: I can't make an exact patch to apply only the remote_scroll changes. But it is easy to understand which changes are for the remote. So you can add them manually. |
| 18:23:39 | webguest76 | How would I get a plugin to play a specific mp3 |
| 18:23:39 | webguest76 | from a directory? |
| 18:25:09 | webguest76 | sorry that was meant to say: HI can anyone tell me how I would get a plugin to play a specific mp3 in a specifi directory? |
| 18:25:22 | | Quit einhirn (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 18:26:56 | linuxstb | webguest76: I don't think you can. Look in plugin.h for the functions available to plugins. |
| 18:29:33 | XavierGr | Firefly: sorry for the PM you must be registered to answer me. |
| 18:29:38 | XavierGr | http://pastebin.com/381701 |
| 18:30:25 | XavierGr | There don't try to patch it as is. Just add manually the '+' statements to your code. The file states which file to change. |
| 18:30:52 | XavierGr | Also some options maybe will be already there by you, so take those that you need. |
| 18:33:50 | _FireFly_ | ok |
| 18:34:17 | webguest76 | thank |
| 18:34:46 | | Quit webguest76 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 18:36:52 | XavierGr | If you need help just ask. |
| 18:37:44 | _FireFly_ | ok |
| 18:40:27 | Bger_cgiirc | is there any routine for converting big endian to little endian (32bit) and reverse ? |
| 18:41:54 | linuxstb | Bger_cgiirc: No - but there should be. |
| 18:42:24 | Bger_cgiirc | there are SWAB32 macroses.. |
| 18:42:27 | linuxstb | There are some functions (SWAB???) in the firmware directory somewhere, but they are not general purpose. |
| 18:42:39 | linuxstb | But look at how they are defined. |
| 18:42:49 | Bger_cgiirc | okay |
| 18:43:19 | linuxstb | IIRC, they convert little-endian to host-endian. Which isn't the posix definition of SWAB. |
| 18:44:23 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 18:44:23 | * | Bger_cgiirc must understand portions of linux/crypto/aes.c |
| 18:44:35 | | Quit muesli__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 18:45:42 | Bger_cgiirc | firmware/export/system.h |
| 18:46:01 | | Join matsl [0] (n=matsl@1-1-4-2a.mal.sth.bostream.se) |
| 18:47:50 | linuxstb | Yes, but they are only defined on big-endian targets. For little-endian targets, they do nothing. |
| 18:49:47 | linuxstb | But they may suit your needs - if you want to convert from little-endian to host endian. |
| 18:50:03 | linuxstb | (or vice-versa). |
| 18:50:09 | Bger_cgiirc | ok, i must write cpu_to_le32() and le32_to_cpu() |
| 18:50:37 | Bger_cgiirc | which on little endian is just #define xxx(x) (x) |
| 18:51:25 | Bger_cgiirc | and on big endian is what SWAB32() does... or i'm wrong ? |
| 18:52:59 | linuxstb | Yes. I think SWAB should be defined on all targets, and simply swaps the byte order (using the existing asm-optimised routines). You can then define your set of byte-swap functions as macros that either use SWAB or do nothing. |
| 18:53:23 | linuxstb | But that would mean changing any existing calls to SWAB in rockbox. |
| 18:53:50 | linuxstb | Which is why I didn't do it when I found hte same problem a while ago - it touches too much code I'm not familiar with. |
| 18:54:02 | Bger_cgiirc | aha :) |
| 18:54:04 | Bger_cgiirc | like fat.c :) |
| 18:54:19 | linuxstb | Yes - I don't want to go there.... |
| 18:54:41 | Bger_cgiirc | for sure |
| 18:55:01 | Bger_cgiirc | so, it's ok to #define cpu_to_le32(x) SWAB32(x) ? |
| 18:55:06 | linuxstb | But I will need to soon for the ipod - it's the first little-endian Rockbox target. |
| 18:55:08 | Bger_cgiirc | and reverse |
| 18:55:34 | preglow | hmm |
| 18:55:37 | linuxstb | Yes, that's how I understand those functions. |
| 18:55:41 | preglow | can't you switch endiannes for arm? |
| 18:55:54 | linuxstb | I think it's less efficient running big-endian. |
| 18:56:00 | preglow | ahh |
| 18:56:16 | linuxstb | But yes, there are commands to change the endianness. |
| 18:57:10 | linuxstb | But I'm sure Rockbox is already quite safe in that respect, and I'll be looking out for problems as well. |
| 18:57:16 | preglow | yeah, me too |
| 19:00 |
| 19:01:24 | Bger_cgiirc | hm, any standard way of getting 32bit int in rb ? |
| 19:02:06 | linuxstb | I know it's old news but I can't believe the "Zen patent": http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4198360.stm |
| 19:03:10 | linuxstb | Bger_cgiirc: firmware/includes/inttypes.h |
| 19:03:49 | XavierGr | ipod is little endian? |
| 19:03:54 | linuxstb | XavierGr: Yes. |
| 19:04:08 | XavierGr | I thought that apple tends to make big endian. |
| 19:04:15 | linuxstb | Not any more. |
| 19:04:37 | linuxstb | Their file formats are big-endian though. |
| 19:04:39 | XavierGr | Is there a reason behind this change? |
| 19:04:50 | XavierGr | and their macs |
| 19:05:01 | linuxstb | I don't think they decided to change - it's just the available processors. |
| 19:05:02 | fuzzie | the macs not for much longer, though |
| 19:05:24 | | Quit Maxime (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:05:29 | Paul_The_Nerd | I can't believe they went x86. |
| 19:05:36 | XavierGr | they changed their CPU company? |
| 19:05:42 | fuzzie | they're moving to Intel |
| 19:05:49 | fuzzie | changing archs |
| 19:05:51 | XavierGr | x86 no way I have missed some episodes? |
| 19:05:58 | | Join Maxime [0] (n=flemmard@fbx.flemmard.net) |
| 19:06:07 | XavierGr | Didnt they had motorolla ones? |
| 19:06:19 | linuxstb | http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jun/06intel.html |
| 19:06:31 | fuzzie | they're currently motorola/ibm powerpc users, yes |
| 19:07:38 | _FireFly_ | the problem was/is that motorola/ibm couldn't increase the cpu power to the level apple wants |
| 19:07:58 | _FireFly_ | somthing about doubleing the cpu power |
| 19:08:14 | crwl | that power per watt thing |
| 19:08:21 | linuxstb | Interesting that Apple are now competing with Microsoft on a level playing field. |
| 19:08:34 | _FireFly_ | not really |
| 19:08:37 | fuzzie | the problem is that no-one wants to make powerpc chips for laptops. |
| 19:08:54 | _FireFly_ | MACOS will only run on mac |
| 19:09:17 | Paul_The_Nerd | That isn't true |
| 19:09:26 | fuzzie | in theory |
| 19:09:27 | Paul_The_Nerd | MacOS will only *officially* run on Mac hardware |
| 19:09:38 | fuzzie | the recent development builds certainly seem quite solidly locked |
| 19:09:50 | _FireFly_ | they want to include a lock into there os and bios so that it can only run on MAC-pcs |
| 19:09:52 | Paul_The_Nerd | I've read quite a few faqs on how to bypass that though. |
| 19:09:57 | fuzzie | no |
| 19:10:03 | fuzzie | you haven't. :) |
| 19:10:08 | Paul_The_Nerd | Oh? |
| 19:10:17 | fuzzie | the original intel/mac builds didn't lock themselves to the TPM in any meaningful way |
| 19:10:23 | fuzzie | the recent ones do |
| 19:10:26 | Paul_The_Nerd | Ah |
| 19:10:30 | Paul_The_Nerd | I'll admit it's been a little while. |
| 19:10:32 | | Join t0mas [0] (n=Tomas@unaffiliated/t0mas) |
| 19:10:44 | fuzzie | it might well end up workedaround, but we'll see. |
| 19:10:50 | Paul_The_Nerd | 'eh. I'm quite certain someone will find a way anyway. |
| 19:10:56 | linuxstb | That's not the issue - it's the cost of hardware to Apple that I'm referring to. They should now be able to build Macs with similar specs and prices as companies like Dell. |
| 19:11:17 | Paul_The_Nerd | I don't think you were ever *really* paying for the hardware. |
| 19:11:26 | Paul_The_Nerd | You were paying for the design. |
| 19:11:28 | fuzzie | yes, their move to x86 seems somewhat suicide in that regard |
| 19:11:39 | fuzzie | they can't sustain 30% profit margins if their specs can be directly compared to Dell |
| 19:12:13 | linuxstb | People will be happy to pay a premium for Macs - is just that they will now be in the same ballpark performance wise. |
| 19:13:46 | XavierGr | Who buys Macs anyway??? |
| 19:13:57 | crwl | why not? |
| 19:14:02 | linuxstb | No-one - they're too expensive :) |
| 19:14:07 | fuzzie | I'm typing on an iBook right now. :) |
| 19:14:20 | Paul_The_Nerd | I know many more iBook users than Mac desktop users. |
| 19:14:26 | crwl | imho you can't get better (12") laptop for 1000 EUR than ibook |
| 19:14:35 | crwl | don't know about the more expensive ones, though |
| 19:15:00 | | Join webguest19 [0] (n=d49f4cf2@labb.contactor.se) |
| 19:15:00 | linuxstb | crwl: I agree. I'm now on my second iBook. |
| 19:15:19 | fuzzie | i'm on my third iBook, and i've only paid for one |
| 19:15:24 | fuzzie | thanks to Apple's wonderful logic board designs |
| 19:15:28 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:15:32 | XavierGr | well I could understand aplle users but no way that I could understand MAC users. |
| 19:15:49 | XavierGr | apple = ipod |
| 19:16:08 | linuxstb | crwl: Getting off-topic, is there any way I can set my uBook up so I can ALT+TAB between windows in the same application (Firefox, Terminal etc). |
| 19:16:29 | crwl | linuxstb, i don't know, i don't own an ibook |
| 19:16:41 | crwl | i got my gf to buy one though :) i've been wondering about the same thing |
| 19:16:45 | fuzzie | linuxstb: i assume you know cmd-tilde does that? |
| 19:16:55 | crwl | cmd-tilde? i'll go try right away -> |
| 19:16:57 | fuzzie | there's a list, somewhere in the OS |
| 19:17:00 | linuxstb | fuzzie: No. No-one told me that :) |
| 19:17:11 | Paul_The_Nerd | I keep thinking about getting an iBook |
| 19:17:26 | Paul_The_Nerd | The cheapest one I can find with WiFI. |
| 19:17:30 | linuxstb | The only thing I know is that ALT+3 gives you a # symbol. |
| 19:17:49 | linuxstb | Which is missing on at least the UK keyboard. |
| 19:17:52 | fuzzie | heh, the first thing I did to mine was switch to Dutch layout |
| 19:18:04 | crwl | heh |
| 19:18:19 | linuxstb | The first thing I did with my first iBook was install Debian. But I've stuck with Mac OS X on the new one so far... |
| 19:18:53 | Paul_The_Nerd | I want to install linux on my current laptop, but as far as I can tell nobody's worked out the wireless on it quite yet. |
| 19:19:04 | XavierGr | if you want to upgrade a mac, what do you do... :p |
| 19:19:13 | | Join Lear [0] (n=chatzill@h73n11c1o285.bredband.skanova.com) |
| 19:19:15 | linuxstb | Yes, if someone knows the perfect Linux laptop, please tell me. |
| 19:19:22 | crwl | if you want to upgrade a pc laptop, what do you do... |
| 19:19:29 | crwl | linuxstb, i hear some ibm ones are pretty good |
| 19:19:42 | crwl | might be expensive, though. |
| 19:19:42 | Paul_The_Nerd | linuxstb: If they ever get the wireless working, I'd say emachines m6811 is a good shot for it. |
| 19:19:46 | preglow | does the peak meter interpret a max value as a clip? |
| 19:19:47 | fuzzie | XavierGr: you buy a processor upgrade, some RAM, another hard disk, etc? :) |
| 19:20:03 | linuxstb | preglow: Is that a Rockbox question? :) |
| 19:20:22 | Paul_The_Nerd | What, rockbox discussion in #rockbox? How DARE you! |
| 19:20:24 | XavierGr | I think yes. |
| 19:22:02 | XavierGr | I tried to make arrangements for the radio peak meter but no avail, I cant understand where the audio by the radio is sent. |
| 19:22:25 | XavierGr | it is not the pcm buffer for sure. |
| 19:22:42 | _FireFly_ | mybe directly to the output |
| 19:22:51 | linuxstb | bbl |
| 19:22:53 | | Quit linuxstb ("Client Exiting") |
| 19:23:36 | XavierGr | then how can someone measure the peaks? |
| 19:23:51 | preglow | no, no, it's not in the pcm buffer |
| 19:23:51 | Lear | Radio peak meter would require active recording (though not necessarily writing to disk) of the radio... |
| 19:23:52 | preglow | that's for sure |
| 19:24:02 | XavierGr | God I am so agnorant on this, I don't even know where to start |
| 19:24:10 | preglow | what lear says |
| 19:24:39 | XavierGr | active recording? then this will make the cpu go crazy. |
| 19:25:06 | Lear | Might require more than 11 Mhz, but it shouldn't be that bad, I think... |
| 19:25:17 | XavierGr | there is no chance with 48 or even 11mhz which is currently set. |
| 19:25:28 | preglow | not bad at all |
| 19:25:31 | preglow | of course |
| 19:25:35 | XavierGr | oh little more than 11 you say eh. |
| 19:25:36 | preglow | 48 would be much more than enough |
| 19:25:53 | Lear | The point is, the audio ADC must be active with proper input, and the data written to somewhere the CPU can read the peaks. |
| 19:25:55 | preglow | 11mhz might just be enough |
| 19:26:29 | Lear | We're not talking MP3 encoding or anything here. :) |
| 19:27:48 | XavierGr | hmm thats why there is no s/pdif signal with the radio? |
| 19:28:22 | Lear | Radio is analog... |
| 19:28:23 | | Join muesli- [0] (i=muesli_t@Bbc75.b.pppool.de) |
| 19:28:51 | XavierGr | opps my bad |
| 19:29:22 | Bger_cgiirc | nite all ;) |
| 19:29:22 | | Quit Bger_cgiirc ("CGI:IRC 0.5.4 (2004/01/29)") |
| 19:30:29 | XavierGr | so what is going to happen with the logs? |
| 19:30:38 | Paul_The_Nerd | Question: Anyone know of a really good skin/case for an H120 that leaves the line out exposed? (And ideally the remote connection) |
| 19:31:07 | XavierGr | the outro one |
| 19:31:32 | XavierGr | check misticaudio sthe site jeff runs on misticriver |
| 19:31:50 | XavierGr | I am very pleased with it. |
| 19:32:07 | Paul_The_Nerd | I looked at the picture of the outro... something about it doesn't sit right with me. |
| 19:32:34 | Paul_The_Nerd | I'm *thinking* of just puncturing a hole in my original iRiver case. |
| 19:32:36 | XavierGr | Well no problems for me so far and the screen protector is great. |
| 19:32:51 | XavierGr | Thats what I did and screwed my first case. |
| 19:33:10 | XavierGr | I will give you a link for that. |
| 19:34:36 | XavierGr | http://www.misticriver.net/photos/displayimage.php?album=38&pos=6 |
| 19:34:49 | XavierGr | check those 2 pictures, its my case mod. |
| 19:35:07 | XavierGr | the first and then the seconds attempt. |
| 19:37:37 | Paul_The_Nerd | Your case looks quite different from mine |
| 19:38:08 | Paul_The_Nerd | Mine, you insert the player from the top, and then close a small strap over it, that snaps on the back. |
| 19:39:14 | XavierGr | mine snaps on the front. |
| 19:39:35 | XavierGr | you have the old case. |
| 19:39:49 | Paul_The_Nerd | Ah |
| 19:40:06 | Paul_The_Nerd | I've had mine for a while. |
| 19:40:24 | Paul_The_Nerd | I was thinking of basically doing what you did in your first mod, the line out only one. |
| 19:42:53 | XavierGr | it didnt't work for me so I moved to the second. |
| 19:43:58 | XavierGr | The hole must be pretty big. In the picture while you think, "ok now I will plug the jack" when you try you will see that the plastic casing of the jack is very fat (especially those that arent made from iriver, |
| 19:44:56 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 19:45:07 | Paul_The_Nerd | I though about that. |
| 19:45:25 | Paul_The_Nerd | I'm wondering if I could just cut a horizontal slit |
| 19:45:33 | Paul_The_Nerd | That crosses both line out and line in. |
| 19:45:38 | Paul_The_Nerd | Don't actually remove any material |
| 19:45:46 | Paul_The_Nerd | Since it's sewn at the ends, the strip shouldn't extend. |
| 19:46:10 | Paul_The_Nerd | And that way I should be able to plug, and when it's *not* plugged, it should still provide some protection from dust and especially larger particles. |
| 19:46:21 | XavierGr | So I took a sharp cutter and cutted a rectangle to show both plugs. |
| 19:46:54 | XavierGr | opps I think cut is cut in the past too... |
| 19:47:31 | XavierGr | well I just extended the remote window to fit both line in/out |
| 19:48:44 | Paul_The_Nerd | Gotcha |
| 19:48:48 | Paul_The_Nerd | But it didn't work well? |
| 19:49:24 | XavierGr | well though the hole was doing its job... |
| 19:49:53 | XavierGr | on my first attempt with the little hole, the drill went away and cut the screen. |
| 19:50:15 | XavierGr | So I had a small tear on my irivers windshield! |
| 19:50:18 | Paul_The_Nerd | :( |
| 19:50:55 | | Quit muesli- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:51:01 | XavierGr | I had that case for quite a long time then I bought the Outro which I think is very good case. |
| 19:51:06 | | Join dpassen1 [0] (n=dpassen1@resnet-233-61.resnet.UMBC.EDU) |
| 19:55:11 | | Join zeekoe_ [0] (n=zeekoe@wekkerradio.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 19:56:13 | Paul_The_Nerd | Somewhere I'd found a case that looked quite nice... they'd even imprint it for you, and the price wasn't too bad... but I think it's bookmarked elsewhere. =/ |
| 20:00 |
| 20:11:39 | XavierGr | What an asshole I am I just submited a patch without first loging in. Now I can modify it. |
| 20:12:34 | Paul_The_Nerd | That sucks. |
| 20:13:09 | Bagder | XavierGr: if you make an update, submit a new patch when logged in and mention what patch it replaces |
| 20:16:39 | | Quit arkascha (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:19:09 | XavierGr | Ok though I think this version is bug free. Please test it yourself and commnet it. I would be pleased to see this comitted. |
| 20:19:47 | | Quit webguest19 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 20:19:47 | | Quit webguest95 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 20:22:57 | Lear | Should I close #1312132 then? |
| 20:27:54 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 20:28:23 | XavierGr | Close it? |
| 20:28:52 | XavierGr | Only if you want to commit it? :P (or you want me to re submit it logged in) |
| 20:29:26 | Lear | Ah, I thought you were about to submit a new, fixed patch. :) |
| 20:29:51 | XavierGr | No it is the latest, until someone discovers a bug. |
| 20:30:03 | XavierGr | Again test please. |
| 20:32:02 | | Join solexx_ [0] (n=jrschulz@d051090.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 20:32:26 | | Join DangerousDan [0] (n=Miranda@newtpulsifer.campus.luth.se) |
| 20:35:34 | | Quit t0mas (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:36:13 | | Quit paugh ("Leaving") |
| 20:47:59 | | Quit _FireFly_ ("Leaving") |
| 20:49:02 | | Quit solexx (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 20:49:08 | | Nick solexx_ is now known as solexx (n=jrschulz@d051090.adsl.hansenet.de) |
| 20:49:37 | | Join paugh [0] (n=kickback@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822) |
| 20:56:53 | | Quit Paul_The_Nerd ("Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.7/20050915]") |
| 20:57:19 | | Join muesli- [0] (i=muesli_t@Bc121.b.pppool.de) |
| 20:57:43 | muesli- | high |
| 20:58:51 | | Part LinusN |
| 20:58:53 | Lear | low |
| 21:00 |
| 21:02:34 | | Quit Maxime (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:03:09 | XavierGr | Linus left without saying a word all day! |
| 21:03:21 | XavierGr | LOL High-low |
| 21:03:30 | muesli- | ;) |
| 21:03:33 | | Join Maxime [0] (n=flemmard@fbx.flemmard.net) |
| 21:04:06 | muesli- | seems linus doenst like us anymore.. |
| 21:04:36 | | Quit Rick (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:04:50 | XavierGr | I hope not... |
| 21:06:02 | | Join Rick [0] (n=rick@pool-71-108-9-40.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 21:13:33 | solexx | who cares? let's hope he still likes rockbox! ;) |
| 21:14:15 | XavierGr | :D |
| 21:15:02 | solexx | damn, having to learn b-trees sucks |
| 21:15:29 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:16:19 | * | solexx promises (again) not to start learning the day before the exam |
| 21:17:56 | fuzzie | yes, indeed, you should be doing it in the early morning of the exam day like a real student |
| 21:18:00 | XavierGr | b-trees? |
| 21:34:39 | | Join webguest31 [0] (n=3ed6e45c@labb.contactor.se) |
| 21:34:51 | webguest31 | hello guys |
| 21:35:11 | webguest31 | vpn-user here (from forums) |
| 21:36:00 | webguest31 | any progress with the bugfixed charging algorithm for v1 recorders? |
| 21:36:38 | solexx | XavierGr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-trees |
| 21:36:46 | solexx | now, who didn't see that coming!? |
| 21:43:03 | | Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:54:28 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:54:42 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 22:00 |
| 22:01:21 | | Join ebone_ [0] (i=korjkl@pcp900891pcs.cnorth01.va.comcast.net) |
| 22:01:32 | ebone_ | hey fellas. |
| 22:01:55 | ebone_ | you know the one thing i will miss from the iRiver firmware ? |
| 22:02:05 | ebone_ | and i know there is nothing that can be done about it, sadly. |
| 22:02:19 | ebone_ | WOW SRS |
| 22:02:30 | ebone_ | that shit really does sound good through a car stereo system. |
| 22:02:41 | ebone_ | over headphones, i don't use it at all. |
| 22:02:58 | ebone_ | but on a stereo system ... WOW really is, err wow ! |
| 22:04:18 | preglow | haha |
| 22:04:26 | preglow | like you said, nothing we can do about it |
| 22:04:52 | fuzzie | not a known algorithm? |
| 22:05:59 | preglow | patented as well |
| 22:06:19 | preglow | we can do some processing of our own, though, just need someone to invent something first ;) |
| 22:06:35 | fuzzie | well |
| 22:06:42 | fuzzie | it's not as if the mp3 algorithms aren't patented |
| 22:08:20 | XavierGr | what if someone knows the wow algorithms and say that it is his work. |
| 22:08:44 | XavierGr | Who is going to know if it used wow or something similar. |
| 22:09:02 | solexx | someone reading the source |
| 22:09:29 | XavierGr | and if it isn't open source? |
| 22:09:47 | solexx | and whether it is his own work (from *before* the patent application) has to be proved in court |
| 22:09:54 | solexx | if someone sues him... |
| 22:10:10 | XavierGr | no no you got it wrong.., I mean: |
| 22:10:17 | solexx | if it isn't OS, it cannot be in rockbox... |
| 22:10:36 | preglow | fuzzie: i'm willing to bet the srs people are more aggressive with defending their patents, the mp3 people have more or less said they wont go after decoders anymore |
| 22:10:57 | preglow | anyway, i sure as hell don't know how srs wow works anyway |
| 22:11:04 | fuzzie | i was more thinking the encoding |
| 22:11:24 | XavierGr | someone gets the WOW algorithms, and makes a program of his own. And the calls that algorithm "owo" (example) who can be sure that he stealed the WOW algorithms? |
| 22:11:37 | solexx | a judge |
| 22:11:40 | fuzzie | XavierGr: that doesn't matter in the context of patents |
| 22:11:53 | solexx | true |
| 22:11:57 | fuzzie | if it's patented, even if you invent it independently you're libable. |
| 22:12:00 | fuzzie | liable, even |
| 22:12:08 | fuzzie | but, yes, I have no idea how it works either, just curious :) |
| 22:12:27 | | Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 22:12:43 | XavierGr | but if noone has checked his code then how SRS can sue him. |
| 22:13:07 | XavierGr | He can claim that he used hiw own algorithm |
| 22:13:52 | solexx | ...and prove it in court, if SRS becomes suspicious |
| 22:14:11 | XavierGr | yeah that what I am talking. |
| 22:14:17 | XavierGr | ^that's |
| 22:14:42 | solexx | ok, but he will only win if it is really not covered by the patent |
| 22:14:50 | XavierGr | But I guess that SRS algorithms aren't easy to fond... |
| 22:15:06 | solexx | (and even if he wins, he will have to pay a lot before that decision) |
| 22:15:28 | XavierGr | What you mean covered byt the patent? |
| 22:15:47 | fuzzie | the SRS stuff is patented. |
| 22:15:58 | solexx | a patent doesn't cover an exact algorithm, but an abstract idea to handle a problem |
| 22:16:12 | solexx | as far as i understand |
| 22:16:32 | solexx | at least, the "new kind" of patents ("software patents") |
| 22:16:41 | XavierGr | so noone can make a program that alters the sound. |
| 22:16:42 | XavierGr | ? |
| 22:16:51 | solexx | think of the amazon "one click" patent |
| 22:17:03 | XavierGr | Because there have been many different algorithms for it. EAX as an example |
| 22:17:17 | XavierGr | I bet they do not pay SRS a penny |
| 22:17:25 | fuzzie | right, so if you really really were to use your own algorithm then it'd be fine |
| 22:17:30 | solexx | it all depends on the patent application |
| 22:17:39 | fuzzie | but it'd have to be different enough that it wasn't covered by the patent |
| 22:18:19 | XavierGr | I make the program and hide the code. We are talking about sounds which can be sure if I used the same algorithm? |
| 22:18:44 | | Join tucoz [0] (n=81b17b04@labb.contactor.se) |
| 22:18:48 | XavierGr | EAX made her own algorithm so did SRS so can an "x" company or user. |
| 22:19:09 | XavierGr | the result is not the same, |
| 22:19:15 | XavierGr | but who can be sure? |
| 22:19:16 | tucoz | hi, sorry for bumping into the discussion. Would OpenAL be possible to use? |
| 22:19:58 | solexx | XavierGr: a lawyer. ;-) |
| 22:20:21 | tucoz | Not that I would want it, but if someone wants 3dsound, that might be an option. |
| 22:20:40 | XavierGr | Even then the court would have to innocent the guy. |
| 22:20:55 | XavierGr | ^claim innocnet |
| 22:21:00 | fuzzie | tucoz: OpenAL doesn't do anything which would be useful.. |
| 22:21:11 | tucoz | fuzzie: ok |
| 22:21:33 | fuzzie | XavierGr: if it weren't open source and weren't easily reverse-engineerable, you might get away with it, yes |
| 22:21:40 | XavierGr | And as far as I know software patetns aren't comply with the European laws. |
| 22:21:53 | fuzzie | that doesn't stop EU countries from happily issuing them, though |
| 22:22:39 | fuzzie | and it'd mean no-one from the US could be involved with the code |
| 22:25:16 | XavierGr | Well just an "if" question on a non open source program. |
| 22:25:46 | solexx | damn, i even cannot find the patent nr. |
| 22:26:12 | preglow | i don't think the srs stuff is too complex |
| 22:26:23 | preglow | but still enough to not be apparent from just listening at the sound |
| 22:26:54 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:27:13 | XavierGr | As for the mp3 encoding. We could program a patented encoder but don't commit it to cvs. Host it on another site and the claim from the Rockbox site that this is not supported by the main developers, though this is unethic. |
| 22:29:11 | tucoz | I would suggest using a crappy mp3 encoder for not-that-important recordings, like lectures and stuff. And have a lossless encoder for hq recordings |
| 22:29:29 | tucoz | hmm, that is what we have right now, isn't it? |
| 22:29:59 | tucoz | or speex |
| 22:30:12 | | Join amiconn [0] (n=jens@p54BD6B56.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:30:19 | XavierGr | hi amiconn |
| 22:32:39 | | Nick TiMiD[ParisAgain is now known as TiMiD (n=TiMiD[FD@asgard.valombre.net) |
| 22:32:39 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK TiMiD |
| 22:32:42 | TiMiD | re |
| 22:32:57 | TiMiD | I have a strange compilation problem |
| 22:33:10 | TiMiD | tree.c:317: error: structure has no member named `dirstart' |
| 22:33:12 | TiMiD | //int start = tc.dirstart; |
| 22:33:20 | TiMiD | this is line 317 ... |
| 22:34:41 | BirdFish | Does anyone have any news on the iaudio X5 port? |
| 22:34:52 | Bagder | there is no news |
| 22:35:02 | TiMiD | oops sorry to bother you, seems that I wasn't compiling the right code ^^ |
| 22:35:16 | Bagder | BirdFish: that port is stalling since a few months |
| 22:35:37 | Bagder | hopefully it'll get back up to speed again |
| 22:36:14 | BirdFish | Bagder: I figured that is what you meant. But some posts dissappeared on Iaudiophile's forum and I wanted to check so that I could respost and make others aware of the current situation again. |
| 22:36:51 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 22:36:51 | * | amiconn spotted a problem in a forum post that sounds familiar |
| 22:37:19 | amiconn | Screen updates for the H1x0 remote seem to disturb radio reception - seems we need screen freeze |
| 22:37:27 | | Join arkascha [0] (n=arkascha@xdsl-195-14-222-50.netcologne.de) |
| 22:38:02 | | Join Philip_0729 [0] (n=Philip_j@user-785.lns4-c7.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
| 22:39:24 | tucoz | amiconn: hehe, I had completely forgotten about that one. Hmm, maybe that was something else. some low beep when using the remote in general. |
| 22:40:34 | amiconn | I'm still pondering the implementation of a special low-emi lcd driver mode for fm |
| 22:40:47 | * | tucoz is completely rockboxed by now and never uses the remote |
| 22:41:06 | amiconn | (thinking archos here, but it may also helpful for iriver remote) |
| 22:42:27 | tucoz | amiconn: I do not remember if I have asked you this before, but.. Do some shades of gray flicker on your iriver? |
| 22:42:49 | amiconn | Do you mean the native shades, or the grayscale lib? |
| 22:42:56 | tucoz | grayscale lib |
| 22:43:08 | amiconn | That's normal, due to how the grayscale lib works |
| 22:43:56 | tucoz | It doesn't matter. Mandelbrot is cool no matter what. Especially on a dap that do not support that amount of shades anyway :) |
| 22:44:22 | amiconn | Yes, mandelbrot uses 9 shades (both on H1x0 and archos) |
| 22:44:50 | Lear | amiconn: just curios regarding the timer changes... fading uses "shorter" timer periods then? |
| 22:44:57 | amiconn | Yes |
| 22:45:27 | tucoz | hehe, I really like that. Off topic: have I dreamt this, or did some c64'ers use the cpu in the floppy drive for extra computation power? |
| 22:45:29 | amiconn | My timer changes avoid the timer restart at frequency changes, but of course the period isn't 100% stable |
| 22:46:01 | amiconn | ...when the frequency changes, and an interrupt is delayed during pll relock |
| 22:46:15 | amiconn | ...which may take up to 10 ms, typically 3 ms |
| 22:46:50 | amiconn | Everything that uses a timer period of 10ms or greater and can stand an occasional glitch will work without locking the frequency by boosting, |
| 22:47:21 | amiconn | but backlight fading uses timer periods in the microseconds range |
| 22:48:02 | amiconn | (50 µs...5 ms) |
| 22:49:10 | tucoz | seems like I didn't dream "Old Commodore 64 floppy drives had a CPU and some RAM in them that you could actually upload and execute code with" |
| 22:49:42 | Bagder | tucoz: right, that's how they work |
| 22:50:08 | Bagder | iirc, there was a 6502 in the floppy drive too |
| 22:50:14 | | Join Strath [0] (n=mike@dpc674681214.direcpc.com) |
| 22:50:52 | tucoz | Bagder: same as for the 64? |
| 22:50:56 | Bagder | yes |
| 22:51:50 | tucoz | hehe, those were the days. It is really amazing to think of what people could do with their 64s. |
| 22:52:15 | Bagder | http://kjell.haxx.se/horizon/ |
| 22:52:21 | Bagder | our stuff ;-) |
| 22:52:23 | tucoz | have read that :) |
| 22:52:38 | tucoz | I have to power up my old one soon |
| 22:52:47 | Lear | Hrm... Loaded a config file that changed bass and treble only. Playback stopped... :/ |
| 22:53:51 | XavierGr | amiconn: remote updates interefer with the remote? But thats not the issue with the iriver firmware. |
| 22:54:17 | * | XavierGr gets to test the FM radio with the remote and default firmware. |
| 22:54:28 | tucoz | just for the record. I came to think of that when I thought of amiconns work on the grayscale lib. Doing stuff that isn't "possible" |
| 22:54:46 | * | amiconn would need to find out how to enter fm with the stock firmware first :/ |
| 22:54:53 | Bagder | haha |
| 22:55:06 | Bagder | I also feel that lost when I used it |
| 22:55:14 | Bagder | I once managed to activate it by mistkae |
| 22:55:23 | Bagder | and couldn't figure out how to get out of it ;-) |
| 22:55:39 | XavierGr | Well I think that it is not that difficult to operate. I am used to it. |
| 22:55:40 | amiconn | Haha, I also managed to enter it once, but didn't find out how to tune |
| 22:55:48 | tucoz | amiconn: hold play |
| 22:55:54 | tucoz | ..for a while |
| 22:56:11 | tucoz | and hold play to exit |
| 22:56:15 | tucoz | iirc |
| 22:57:19 | amiconn | tucoz: Nah, it's not really impossible. The crucial point was the idea how to display shades of grey on a b&w display, and that idea wasn't even mine |
| 22:57:19 | tucoz | bye |
| 22:57:57 | amiconn | The rest was testing, thinking, retesting, optimising, and lots of implementation work |
| 22:58:09 | amiconn | (involving assembler for speed) |
| 22:58:21 | tucoz | amiconn: I still think that it is cool |
| 22:59:46 | XavierGr | Hmm actually they are right, there is somekind of mistuning when I change the volume. (and the lcd updates) |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:12 | tucoz | I mean it is possible, obviously. But, the idea might seem impossible. |
| 23:00:38 | amiconn | I'd rather expect that for the remote, considered how close the data lines are to the headphone lines which are used as the antenna |
| 23:01:28 | | Join ep0ch [0] (n=ep0ch@84.12.193.149) |
| 23:01:29 | tucoz | if one is thinking of hw limitations i.e. |
| 23:01:32 | amiconn | tucoz: I agree that it is a cool idea... |
| 23:01:37 | | Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.4.1/undefined]") |
| 23:01:45 | XavierGr | But why we need the freeze screen this appears only when the lcd changes. |
| 23:01:50 | amiconn | The idea is borrowed from the video plugin, which is [IDC]Dragon's work |
| 23:02:13 | amiconn | XavierGr: Rockbox does update the lcd periodically |
| 23:02:18 | tucoz | oh, ok. |
| 23:02:32 | tucoz | that does also sound like fun. |
| 23:02:52 | tucoz | got to go. Bye |
| 23:02:55 | XavierGr | Lucky those that have the batch without the ticking issue. |
| 23:02:55 | | Part tucoz |
| 23:02:58 | ep0ch | XavierGr: i;ve just applied your radio patch |
| 23:03:07 | ep0ch | it didn't break anything :) |
| 23:03:10 | amiconn | Of course I had to 'invent' some techniques, like the pseudo-random pattern shifting that minimises flicker |
| 23:03:10 | XavierGr | and :) |
| 23:03:42 | webguest31 | how is bugfixing going for the charging algorythm of the recorder v1? |
| 23:03:43 | ep0ch | it doesnt pick up the existing default fm preset file if you go via the settings menu? |
| 23:03:44 | amiconn | Without it, the grayscale lib would flicker like hell, esp. on archos |
| 23:04:48 | XavierGr | ep0ch: What exactly do you mean? |
| 23:05:07 | XavierGr | It will remember presets in .rockbox/presets/ directory. |
| 23:05:28 | webguest31 | amiconn: You were about to send me a test-binary for the charging algo, nor? |
| 23:05:39 | amiconn | Argl |
| 23:05:49 | * | amiconn completely forgot that |
| 23:05:52 | ep0ch | the old radio had a file called .rockbox/fm-presets-default.fmr |
| 23:05:56 | webguest31 | I see :) |
| 23:06:13 | ep0ch | i need to move this to .rockbox/presets then... |
| 23:06:31 | XavierGr | this will load the presets and pop the radio, but it will not remember it after a shutdown. |
| 23:06:54 | XavierGr | But if you had presets that you want you save it to default directory presets. |
| 23:06:54 | amiconn | webguest31: Perhaps I should do some tests myself. I don't know whether the logging code in current powermgmt.c will tell us much |
| 23:07:14 | webguest31 | amiconn: You have a recorder v1? |
| 23:07:24 | XavierGr | Just push A-B button and then save to the prompted directory with a filename under 20 characters |
| 23:07:44 | amiconn | webguest31: Yes, that's one of my rockboxes |
| 23:07:55 | ep0ch | i've loaded the default fmr file up and saved it in the radio. that works. |
| 23:08:03 | webguest31 | amiconn: And your box works correctly? |
| 23:08:12 | linuxstb_ | Anyone familiar with ARM assembler, linker scripts, map files, crt0.S etc ? |
| 23:08:48 | amiconn | webguest31: Not really... I don't have as big problems as you, but I do get much less runtime from my 2500mAh cells than I would expect |
| 23:09:06 | amiconn | I get 6..8 hours, I'd rather expect twice as much |
| 23:09:08 | Bagder | linuxstb_: somewhat, yes, yes, somewhat, but I'm heading to bed in minutes |
| 23:09:14 | webguest31 | amiconn: Ok so what will we do? |
| 23:09:37 | ep0ch | XavierGr: but i think the radio should look at .rockbox/fm-presets-default it .rockbox/presets does not exist or contain any .fmr files |
| 23:09:44 | ep0ch | s/it/if |
| 23:09:55 | webguest31 | amiconn: I only have very little C knowledge and more little jukebox knowledge :) |
| 23:10:12 | Bagder | linuxstb_: fire off a mail to the list |
| 23:10:29 | | Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@ipa132.2.tellas.gr) |
| 23:10:43 | XavierGr | ep0ch once this is commited and people know about it it will not have any use to search in .rockbox directory. |
| 23:11:08 | linuxstb_ | The problem is that my ipod bootloader is not running reliably. I think the problem is that the code gets loaded to one address, and then my relocation of the code (and data) to a different address isn't working properly. |
| 23:11:28 | Bagder | aha |
| 23:11:31 | ep0ch | XavierGr: thats true |
| 23:11:33 | linuxstb_ | But I'll keep thinking about it tonight, and try and diagnose what's going on. |
| 23:11:38 | amiconn | webguest31: These problems definitely need to be fixed, however, there's always little time |
| 23:11:41 | XavierGr | bootlaoder? You amde a rockbox bootlaoder that quick? Are you joking? |
| 23:11:46 | Bagder | btw, there's a .ss-generating site coming up soonish |
| 23:12:20 | webguest31 | miconn: I understand. no stress, I can still rolo the archos firmware |
| 23:12:50 | linuxstb_ | XavierGr: It's in progress, it's not working. I've got the framework working, but there's problems. I then need to write the ATA driver before the bootloader can actually load anything... |
| 23:12:52 | ep0ch | XavierGr: one last thing, while you're working on the radio, can you make the buttons consistent with the rest of rockbox, as there is not way to get to the rockbox settings menu in radio mode :( |
| 23:13:04 | Bagder | linuxstb_: sure, just mail away when you think we/I can offer a hand in the debug job |
| 23:13:30 | Bagder | now: bedtime |
| 23:13:33 | amiconn | webguest31: As soon as I have some testing code, I'll post about it on the ml. I think I'll need logs taken with various boxes, various cells etc to tune the algorithm |
| 23:13:38 | ep0ch | XavierGr: but me likes preset mode |
| 23:13:42 | ep0ch | :) |
| 23:14:13 | amiconn | My idea is to measure voltage with and without charging current. Perhaps that will give us some more hints about the real status of the cells |
| 23:14:22 | webguest31 | miconn: Ok - I see I have to subscribe to the list :) |
| 23:14:33 | linuxstb_ | Bagder. Thanks. |
| 23:14:36 | XavierGr | ep0ch: Didn't cought that. How can you get to rockbox settings when you are inside the radio? When you set the radio on (either by selecting an fmr file or choose FM radio) A-B button will open the FM menu. |
| 23:14:52 | webguest31 | Damn - my "a" needs more power to get |
| 23:15:27 | amiconn | webguest31: You save me a 'pling' and a red line everytime ;) |
| 23:15:31 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:15:53 | TiMiD | who thinks a complete rewrite from swratch of the file browser would be a good thing ? |
| 23:16:00 | webguest31 | h3h3 |
| 23:16:22 | | Quit Philip_0729 () |
| 23:16:44 | ep0ch | XavierGr: oh just realised that pressing the joystick now takes you to rockbox settings. But this isn't consistent. Can you swap the A-B button with joystick press? |
| 23:16:54 | webguest31 | BTW: I got 17 hours of playtime with my brand new 2600mAh batteries! |
| 23:17:07 | webguest31 | I think thats massive |
| 23:17:21 | amiconn | XavierGr: Allowing to call the main menu from the radio screen isn't a good idea imho |
| 23:17:33 | XavierGr | ep0ch:I never touched the button hnadling this is the attitude by default. |
| 23:17:38 | ep0ch | amiconn: why not? |
| 23:17:45 | XavierGr | yeah why? |
| 23:17:49 | amiconn | It allows cycles like menu->radio->menu->radio... |
| 23:17:54 | ep0ch | heh |
| 23:17:56 | XavierGr | no it dont |
| 23:18:03 | XavierGr | I coded that way that will not. |
| 23:18:24 | XavierGr | I check the fm status before everything. |
| 23:18:25 | amiconn | It will eat up all menu slots, or overflow the stack, whatever comes first |
| 23:18:38 | ep0ch | well something has changed in the radio, before you couldn't go to the settings menu at all. now you can with joystick button |
| 23:18:54 | amiconn | XavierGr: So, how do I enter the radio screen when the radio is already playing |
| 23:18:55 | amiconn | ? |
| 23:19:03 | ep0ch | if i'm not mistaken |
| 23:19:03 | amiconn | (after leaving it with the radio on) |
| 23:19:09 | XavierGr | choosing radio again by the menu |
| 23:19:29 | XavierGr | then it will check if the radio is already on and it will only draw the screen. |
| 23:19:52 | XavierGr | that's the same as before though I just check it with an if. |
| 23:19:55 | amiconn | Yes, but that doesn't prevent the cycle I was talking about |
| 23:20:52 | XavierGr | I cant really got what you are saying. Can you be more specific and which is the change before after my patch? |
| 23:21:09 | XavierGr | ^-before |
| 23:21:31 | amiconn | Before the patch you couldn't enter the menu from the radio screen |
| 23:21:45 | amiconn | ...for a reason, because the radio screen is entered from the menu |
| 23:22:07 | XavierGr | so before my patch you couldnt load a new setting? |
| 23:22:19 | XavierGr | or change the settings for the display? |
| 23:22:28 | amiconn | Yes, by leaving the radio screen |
| 23:22:34 | ep0ch | you would have to have to filetree mode |
| 23:22:45 | ep0ch | s/to/go to |
| 23:22:46 | amiconn | Hmm, perhaps I didn't understand what you mean |
| 23:23:12 | XavierGr | please try the patch and see for youself that there is no point of confusion. |
| 23:23:22 | XavierGr | I think that it is well implemented that way. |
| 23:23:27 | | Quit muesli- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:23:32 | amiconn | ..but then I was irritated by ep0ch saying that you couldn't use the menu before. |
| 23:23:58 | ep0ch | well you couldn't |
| 23:24:04 | XavierGr | I think that I could use it even without my patch. |
| 23:24:06 | amiconn | In fact that has always been possible |
| 23:24:11 | XavierGr | yes |
| 23:24:29 | amiconn | ...by leaving the radio screen with Play instead of Stop (on iriver) |
| 23:24:32 | XavierGr | why not go to the settings. How could one get to the FM again? |
| 23:24:55 | XavierGr | that's right. So there is no difference right? |
| 23:24:57 | amiconn | XavierGr: No, that was a misunderstanding. |
| 23:25:24 | XavierGr | Thank god! I had been doing a lot of work into this. |
| 23:25:31 | amiconn | I thought you mean entering the menu by actually calling it (again), but you mean by leaving the radio screen |
| 23:25:52 | XavierGr | ep0ch: Keep testing. and tell me if you like the cahnges. |
| 23:25:53 | amiconn | ...like it has always been possible. Just the buttons have changed |
| 23:25:56 | XavierGr | ^changes |
| 23:26:40 | amiconn | I think this function could be put on AB (consistent with other screens) and the fm menu put on long Select (as the 'context menu' of the radio screen) |
| 23:26:56 | XavierGr | amiconn: I didn't changed any buttons. The button handling is the smae. |
| 23:26:57 | ep0ch | well i'm convinced before you could not go directly from radio screen to rockbox settings before. but now you can go from radio screen to rockbox settings by pressing the joystick button |
| 23:27:05 | ep0ch | and i just wanted this swapping with A-B :) |
| 23:27:43 | ep0ch | pleae |
| 23:27:44 | ep0ch | please |
| 23:27:46 | amiconn | ep0ch: You could do so before, definitely |
| 23:27:51 | ep0ch | hmm |
| 23:27:57 | XavierGr | as amiconn said. |
| 23:28:05 | | Quit ender` (Connection timed out) |
| 23:28:14 | XavierGr | Because I will say this again. I didn't change the button handling at all. |
| 23:28:25 | amiconn | Ah, it even was select |
| 23:28:39 | XavierGr | ep0ch; we can change the button handling if the devs want to. |
| 23:28:40 | amiconn | Seems I'm a little confused... |
| 23:29:05 | ep0ch | me too now :) |
| 23:29:27 | XavierGr | I will test a build without my patch why dont you test a build with my patch? |
| 23:29:48 | amiconn | Play was the fm menu, and A-B was the context menu, allowing to add presets etc |
| 23:29:48 | ep0ch | Rockbox just switched off by itself when in radio... |
| 23:30:35 | XavierGr | do you have autoturn down on? |
| 23:31:09 | XavierGr | amiconn: play (in the side) will render the preset list. |
| 23:31:15 | ep0ch | let me wait a few minutes and see... |
| 23:31:22 | XavierGr | A-B will get the fm radio menu. |
| 23:31:37 | XavierGr | and select will exit the radio but keep playing. |
| 23:31:46 | XavierGr | that was the button handling before and after my patch. |
| 23:31:49 | ep0ch | XavierGr: there was a thread somewhere about making the buttons consistant in fm mode |
| 23:32:51 | XavierGr | Yes just tested it is how I say. |
| 23:33:11 | | Quit webguest31 ("CGI:IRC") |
| 23:33:23 | XavierGr | Even in the old builds Select (joystick click) will bring up the main menu of rockbox. |
| 23:33:28 | linuxstb_ | A joystick press takes you from the FM screen back to the main menu, leaving the radio on. This is consistent with a joystick press from the WPS, which takes you back to the browser. |
| 23:34:16 | ep0ch | jhttp://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=1512.0 |
| 23:34:21 | amiconn | linuxstb_: It's consistent and inconsistent at the same time, depending on the view |
| 23:34:56 | linuxstb_ | If you understand that Rockbox goes browser -> menu -> FM and browser -> WPS, then it makes sense. |
| 23:35:05 | amiconn | Seeing the presets list as the fm mode's browser, it's inconsistent |
| 23:35:22 | ep0ch | A/B = go to main menu (currently A/B goes to radio context menu) |
| 23:35:23 | ep0ch | STOP = quit radio (this is the only one that's correct) |
| 23:35:23 | ep0ch | Push in joystick = select from presets (this currently goes to the main menu) |
| 23:35:23 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK ep0ch |
| 23:35:23 | ep0ch | Push+hold joystick = context menu (currently does nothing) |
| 23:35:23 | ep0ch | Play = toggle mute/unmute (currently selects from radio presets) |
| 23:36:21 | | Join lImbus [0] (i=lImbus@port-212-202-8-79.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 23:36:24 | amiconn | Hmm, I just had an idea... |
| 23:36:29 | lImbus | hi all |
| 23:37:02 | amiconn | What's currently missing on iriver and Ondio is a way to delete presets, due to how the initial radio implementation works (on archos fm recorder) |
| 23:37:21 | amiconn | If the presets list would have a context menu... |
| 23:37:23 | XavierGr | I add tha to my patch. |
| 23:37:42 | amiconn | ...but the whole radio menu stuff needs some rewriting |
| 23:38:10 | XavierGr | what you mean exactly? |
| 23:38:24 | amiconn | rasher tried to implement the button assignment from that post. It didn't work, compilation failed due to duplicate case: values... |
| 23:38:32 | XavierGr | delete filepresets or preset entries ( I suppose the 2nd) |
| 23:38:40 | amiconn | 2nd |
| 23:39:11 | XavierGr | I made an option clear preset list. |
| 23:39:21 | | Quit DangerousDan ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 23:39:59 | XavierGr | and currently the preset list has already a context menu |
| 23:40:06 | XavierGr | Edit preset and delete preset. |
| 23:41:14 | ep0ch | hmm I have no idea why rockbox switch off by itself.... |
| 23:41:29 | ep0ch | the battery is low, but not too low |
| 23:41:51 | | Join webguest95 [0] (n=d5ee4483@labb.contactor.se) |
| 23:42:03 | XavierGr | you were on the radio screen or outside of it? |
| 23:42:08 | ep0ch | in radio |
| 23:42:11 | ep0ch | but |
| 23:42:16 | XavierGr | strange. |
| 23:42:25 | XavierGr | I had this one too but I was outside. |
| 23:42:29 | ep0ch | i;m in radio now, haven;t touched anything, and it's fine for the last 10 minutes |
| 23:42:40 | ep0ch | was your battery lowish? |
| 23:42:50 | XavierGr | I think yes. |
| 23:42:56 | XavierGr | But I am not sure. |
| 23:43:07 | ep0ch | maybe a dodgy battery reading shutting rockbox down? |
| 23:43:27 | ep0ch | i assume rockbox shuts down on low battery? |
| 23:43:33 | XavierGr | Fiddle with it a little. Load save, add exit (without stopping) reenter and then let it for another 10 minutes. |
| 23:43:59 | | Quit arkascha (Remote closed the connection) |
| 23:45:47 | ep0ch | XavierGr: if there's room maybe it would look better (to me) if there was a space between preset number and station name. |
| 23:47:53 | XavierGr | Ok I can add that. what others think? |
| 23:48:23 | ep0ch | FM radio is not running the CPU @11 Mhz ? |
| 23:48:38 | XavierGr | you mean like "1. Station name" instead of "1.Station name" ? |
| 23:48:43 | XavierGr | it is. |
| 23:49:05 | ep0ch | XavierGr: yes, but i'm not THAT bothered about the space really :) |
| 23:49:48 | ep0ch | well, i've gone to the debug screen while the radio is on the the cpu frequency is at 45 mhz |
| 23:49:58 | XavierGr | Did you played with the preset mode? Did you load the FM from a preset file? |
| 23:50:21 | XavierGr | yes becuase you need normal cpu power outside of the radio. |
| 23:50:39 | linuxstb_ | I'm listening to the radio ATM (unpatched rockbox from a few days ago), and it turned itself off a few minutes ago. The battery is fully charged. |
| 23:50:44 | XavierGr | Can you test the low frequency mistuning? |
| 23:50:50 | ep0ch | you do? oh... i always found menus fine at 11mhz |
| 23:51:03 | ep0ch | low frequency? how low?# |
| 23:51:16 | XavierGr | well do this: |
| 23:51:30 | XavierGr | Enter the menu and tune the radio between 2 stations. |
| 23:51:47 | XavierGr | Then press click and then renter the radio screen. |
| 23:52:05 | XavierGr | Listen carefully to the signal do you hear any changes? |
| 23:52:16 | XavierGr | Reapeat that and tell me if you can hear that. |
| 23:52:22 | ep0ch | ok |
| 23:52:42 | XavierGr | also this can be done from the debug menu. |
| 23:53:04 | ep0ch | yeah |
| 23:53:21 | ep0ch | i've heard the same when listening to other audio files |
| 23:53:27 | ep0ch | like a low pass filter effect |
| 23:53:44 | ep0ch | thats probably at around 30 khz |
| 23:53:59 | Maxime | 30khz? you wouldn't hear it.. |
| 23:54:09 | ep0ch | oh i mean 15 then :p |
| 23:54:27 | Maxime | human ears are from 20Hz to 20Khz :x |
| 23:54:42 | Maxime | (for a very good ear) |
| 23:54:46 | ep0ch | yeah i know, i'm used to sampling rates |
| 23:55:25 | Maxime | i've found a website with multiple samples like 15Khz, 16khz.. |
| 23:55:34 | Maxime | to compare this may be useful no? |
| 23:55:34 | Maxime | :x |
| 23:56:04 | ep0ch | XavierGr: would you say it sounds like a low pass filter effect what you hear? |
| 23:56:19 | ep0ch | high frequencies just dont seem to be there |
| 23:56:38 | XavierGr | something like that. |
| 23:56:53 | XavierGr | and on a well tuned station I can hear a faint pop. |
| 23:56:53 | ep0ch | try it with an mp3 or vorbis |
| 23:57:07 | ep0ch | oh i think we;re hearing different things |
| 23:57:18 | XavierGr | try what? |
| 23:57:26 | XavierGr | change the frequency while playing? |
| 23:57:30 | ep0ch | play on mp3 of vorbis then change the frequency to 11 |
| 23:57:35 | XavierGr | but this may crash the player or the playback. |
| 23:57:56 | ep0ch | well don't do it for too long |
| 23:58:05 | | Join ashridah [0] (i=ashridah@220-253-123-29.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 23:58:06 | ep0ch | or the buffer will empty |
| 23:58:37 | ep0ch | but i can definitly hear a change in the frequencies |
| 23:58:44 | XavierGr | amazing you are right I can clearly hear a pop. |
| 23:58:52 | XavierGr | ehmm |
| 23:58:58 | ep0ch | wow i dont get a pop! :) |
| 23:58:59 | XavierGr | I hear a pop when doing this. |
| 23:59:04 | ep0ch | just a dulled sound |
| 23:59:12 | ep0ch | wierd |
| 23:59:31 | XavierGr | well I didn't checked for long to hear the dull sound but I can clearly hear the pop. |
| 23:59:35 | ep0ch | what player have you got? |
| 23:59:47 | XavierGr | iHP-160 |
| 23:59:54 | XavierGr | and 1900mah battery. |
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