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#rockbox log for 2005-10-18

00:10:12preglowhmm, i too wanted to switch to libmusepack at some point
00:10:28preglowbut the poor seeking support scared me a bit
00:10:37InnerPhalanxi swear i'm the only person here that doesn't use linux
00:10:43InnerPhalanxbut i iused to
00:10:52preglowi use windows :>
00:10:57preglowdevelop on linux, though
00:10:58XavierGr I don't use linux too!
00:11:13InnerPhalanxlinux just sorta confuses me
00:11:18InnerPhalanxi need stuff to be fast sometimes
00:11:21InnerPhalanxi'm not that patient
00:11:31preglowi can use linux very well, i just don't use it for desktop
00:11:34preglowthat is, not often, at least
00:11:44InnerPhalanxthat's the other thing
00:11:47XavierGrI would gladly used Linux if I had the chance to take all my programms there
00:12:11InnerPhalanxbut linux isnt exactly geared towards the average consumer, especially not 14 year old ones
00:12:16XavierGrin any case I think I will be forced to use Linux when Windows Vista is out....
00:12:38InnerPhalanxthough, i am probably the only 14 year old who reads 2600 and listens to podcasts (including their podcasts) and npr
00:12:42InnerPhalanxso... heh
00:12:52InnerPhalanxyeah vista is just shaping up to be crap, pretty much
00:12:56XavierGr(not that I paid anything to microsoft for their crappy OS)
00:13:10InnerPhalanxi did, because i was lame at the time
00:13:32InnerPhalanxand so i made up for it by getting a slipstreamed win2000 for my laptop
00:13:55XavierGrcome to think of it after so many Windows version a minor (but very annoying bug) still remains (not to comments on the major ones)
00:14:14XavierGrFolders can't remember their positions!
00:14:31InnerPhalanxso true
00:14:36XavierGrI have been reading pages and making various hacks to succed this
00:14:39InnerPhalanxxp fooled with that a little, but not enuough
00:14:55InnerPhalanxand in win2000 on my laptop
00:14:55XavierGrI even ended up to lock all the folders not change settings even if you force them.
00:14:58InnerPhalanxit always does remember it
00:15:09InnerPhalanxso i go to my docs and im like "wtf, where's my effing pdf, m8?"
00:15:26XavierGrBut noooooo once the folder buffer is silled it will start again to forgot folder positions one by one...
00:15:58InnerPhalanxdo you know where i can find out how long my computer's been on?
00:16:20XavierGrI have set the folder buffer setting even to 1 million (after several normal tries) but I think that it has nothing to do with it.
00:16:41XavierGrNo I don't it would be cool to know though... :P
00:16:53InnerPhalanxit'd be a few weeks for mine
00:17:16XavierGrnot a chance, for me a couple of days.
00:17:28InnerPhalanx=p yeah
00:17:32InnerPhalanxi definitely need to upgrade
00:17:34InnerPhalanx750 duron, baby!
00:18:18XavierGrthe only reason I leave my PC on is p2p!
00:19:13InnerPhalanxheh, the only reason i leave mine on is because it became a habit back when my computer would randomly restart on startup like 50 times until starting up correctly.
00:19:14 Join leachbj_ [0] (
00:19:53leachbj_hey, has anyone done any programming with the IriverH3XX?
00:21:18InnerPhalanxno, but i'd love to know if there's a sleep mode plugin that goes by time, and not # of tracks
00:21:57InnerPhalanxpodcasts are usually 1/2 - 1 hour long, but if i set it for one track, then what if i wanna listen to some music on the way home from school?
00:26:00InnerPhalanxso, does anyone know of any good podcasts, while i'm sorta on the subject?
00:26:31XavierGrwhat is a podcast anyway?
00:26:40InnerPhalanxok, you know what rss is right?
00:27:27XavierGrsomething with news and bookmark feeds, I am not sure.
00:27:37InnerPhalanxrss is like
00:27:43InnerPhalanxit's like, an xml page
00:27:57InnerPhalanxwith multiple news stories
00:28:05XavierGryes and?
00:28:30XavierGrso a podcast is like that with audio?
00:28:30InnerPhalanxthat can be easily...parsed
00:28:48InnerPhalanxit can be easily parsed by an rss reader to show author, source, etc etc
00:29:14InnerPhalanxnow, using something very similar to rss/xml
00:29:26InnerPhalanxyou have a podcast catcher, which is like a feed reader
00:29:40InnerPhalanx(btw, for a free online feedreader,
00:30:08InnerPhalanxit automatically updates on a certain schedule, and downloads mp3s
00:30:18InnerPhalanxusually like a radio show or something
00:30:35XavierGroh i got it!
00:30:40InnerPhalanxand then you can put that on an mp3 player or a (newer) pda or whatever and listen to it
00:30:59XavierGrso you can hear latest news and shows according to your preference right?
00:31:02InnerPhalanxa lot of places (like 2600) have podcasts of their radio shows
00:31:11InnerPhalanxright, for instance, slashdot has rss
00:31:31InnerPhalanxand a completely separate organization (slashdot review) talks about slashdot articles in a daily podcast
00:31:40XavierGrseems interesting
00:31:49InnerPhalanxpretty much, this guy makes a new mp3 every day, updates the feed, and everyone downloads it
00:32:01InnerPhalanxand they walk around with their mp3 player and listen to it
00:32:33InnerPhalanxif you know a little something about xml, you can figure out how rss works to an extent:
00:33:13XavierGrok thanks maybe I will give it a shot when I found some time.
00:33:19InnerPhalanxyeah, it's good stuff
00:33:41InnerPhalanxi sync (yay for windows briefcase thingy) in the morning and listen to them on the way home from school
00:33:49InnerPhalanxmaybe to if i start walking to school.
00:34:22InnerPhalanxand a great podcast finding place would be..
00:34:41InnerPhalanxones to get: free talk live, 2600 podcasts, engadget
00:34:49InnerPhalanxcnn has some, npr has some
00:34:57InnerPhalanxi gots to go eat, we can talk more in a bit
00:35:22XavierGrbye! and bon apetite.
00:46:15InnerPhalanxthanks, and i'm back
00:47:44InnerPhalanxso yeah, definitely check out podcasting, especially since you probably have an mp3 player (otherwise, why would you be in this channel? =p)
00:52:28 Join ]RowaN[ [0] (
00:53:03]RowaN[have u guys seen this?
00:54:27InnerPhalanxno, i have not.
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03:25:21 Join shasty [0] (
03:26:34shastywould anyone here be interested in developing firmware for the Toshiba gigabeat?
03:27:12shastyit runs a linux kernel and has a 400mhz processor underclocked to 300mhz
03:27:52shastyit doesnt currently have video capability, but with new firmware, it could
03:28:11shastyif anyone is interested go to
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05:15:12thegeek_is there no better way to have voice for all files, than to have the .talk files in the actual folders?
05:15:59thegeek_would it not be a lot better to just recreate the filetree and have the talkfiles in that (virtual) filetree?
05:16:08thegeek_just gets so messy with .talk-files everywhere
05:20:01thegeek_unless this has been fixed before, I think I might just have found something that annoys me enough to warrant a codeparty
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10:46:06 Join preglow [0] (
10:48:48markunpreglow: Last night I made a natural crossfeed filter. So far in a stand alone app, but I will port it to rockbox soon.
10:54:46preglowmarkun: crossfeed filter?
11:09:58markunIs it easy to make a high pass filter?
11:13:55 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
11:19:53markunI made the low-pass by averaging, sounds quite ok.
11:19:57preglowdepends on what order it needs to be
11:20:25markunOne problem with the crossfeed filter is that it introduces a bit more bass.
11:22:41preglowa simple one pole should probably do if you just want to kill some bass
11:22:53preglowbut gotta go for a sec
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13:14:31 Join ripnetuk [0] (
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13:15:04 Join ripnetuk [0] (
13:31:42ripnetukgood news about iriver remote screen work
13:32:26Bgerwhat news ?
13:34:26 Join Moos [0] (
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13:53:11ripnetuksomeone posted a patch to make remote screen work
13:53:22ripnetuksomeone keing kevin ferrare
13:53:53preglowhe's not the first one to post such a patch
13:53:57ripnetukit seems to work really well (as far as it goes). Its take the approach of an independent screen, which i believe was the prefered approach by the elders
13:54:02preglowas a matter of fact, this one does less than the previous one
13:54:08preglowbut seems to use a better approach
13:54:32ripnetukyes, i think it was agreed that seperate screen was way to go
13:55:04preglowin the little while i tried it yesterday, i made it crash my unit :>
13:55:18preglowapparently, pressing buttons while the main unit is in wps wasn't a good idea
13:55:38ripnetukyes,i made it crash as well
13:55:49ripnetukbut all it needs is a 'WPS should go here' screen
13:55:56ripnetukuntil we do a proper wps
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13:58:41Moosyes great works of TiMiD :)
13:59:14Moosis Kevin Ferrare
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14:00:01Moosbut for he continue working on it, he need some feed back of core dev
14:00:23Moosfor now just file tree
14:00:30ripnetukits very hard to carry on working on somehting like this without the framework being in cvs
14:00:47ripnetukdoes anyone know if it breaks compatability with other targets (archos etc)?
14:01:44_FireFly_ripnetuk: if you want a fully working remote(clone mode) you can use my patch hon :) but TiMiDs approach is better
14:02:16MoosFirefly: why don't collaborate with him? :)
14:02:16ripnetukfire - thanks, i think i might have already tried it
14:02:32ripnetukFireFly did it first
14:02:34MoosFirefly: for full support
14:02:35ripnetuki think
14:02:54MoosXavier did it first :D
14:03:02Moosthen Firefly
14:03:22_FireFly_but Xavier had loost the sync with the cvs
14:03:44Moosyes indeed
14:04:28ripnetukthats why IMHO the already working core functionality
14:04:34ripnetukby TiMiD
14:04:43ripnetukshould be put in CVS asap (unless it breaks other targets)
14:04:59Moosapear it's breaks nothing
14:05:01ripnetukbut I guess the project leaders dont want beta code in the cvs
14:05:09Moosbut need opinions
14:05:18MoosZagor, Bagder, amiconn...
14:05:25Moosbefore commit
14:05:26ripnetukis there someone (other than the mailing list) I can formally approve of it :)
14:05:36ripnetukLinusN as well
14:05:46Moos:) I think so
14:05:54Mooswe want it all
14:06:38ripnetuki reckon once its in CVS the remaining screens can be picked off one by one, possibly by different developers
14:06:38Moosit's easy to commit it for one dev with CVS access :)
14:06:49Moosyes absolutly
14:07:07B4gderI've had and still don't have any time to review/commit
14:07:11 Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:07:14Moosand TiMiD himself would continue working on it too
14:07:27Mooshi B4gder
14:07:34B4gderhey ho
14:08:03MoosLinus busy too, long time don't see him here :-)
14:08:29B4gderhe pretends he has a life ;-)
14:08:38Moos:-) sure
14:08:40ripnetuk:) ive seen him on the mailing list
14:09:33B4gderrockbox-dev is now truly available on
14:09:54ripnetukgmane is a very userful site
14:10:40ripnetukon a completely different topic - do the iRiver sims use the rockbox codecs to play mp3s? or do they fake it with a linux / win mp3 player?
14:10:56B4gderrockbox codecs
14:11:04ripnetukive been considering trying to port the sim to Windows Mobile for my smartphone, as there are no decent mp3 players on it
14:11:48B4gderthat was the whole point of adding sound actually, to enable debugging of sound-related code on host
14:12:00ripnetuki havent build the sim in years
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14:18:42ripnetukdoes the sim build with gcc4?
14:20:06_FireFly_it seems that a nptlonly glibc doesn't work with the sim
14:20:22 Join LinusN [0] (
14:20:51amiconnhi LinusN :)
14:21:58amiconnLinusN: I have some questions concerning crt0.S
14:23:07Moos(Linus: did you have a bit of time for look at the multi display patch?)
14:23:16LinusNMoos: not yet
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14:24:54amiconn(all concerning SH1 for now - I want to save some space, and at the same time the smaller routines might be even a bit faster)
14:27:05amiconn(1) Iiuc the copying of some vectors (lines 330..390) is only necessary for debug builds, so it could be #ifdefed out for normal builds (#ifdef DEBUG)?
14:28:30amiconn(2) any objections against shortening the zero-bss, iramcopy, datacopy and stack-munge routines?
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14:34:11LinusN(1) Sure
14:34:25LinusN(2) No objections
14:35:32amiconnokay, so I'll do that
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15:52:33HClwhats the latest h140 bootloader, and is it stable?
15:53:19preglowthe one on the wikipage
15:53:33preglowand i hardly think it'd be there if it wasn't stable
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16:06:30HCljust cehcking
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22:38:00lamedhey all!
22:38:38lamedanybody knows how to see mp3 lame tags, checking if they are there?
22:39:37lamedin what program to use, that is.
22:40:32BBubyou mean id3tags?
22:40:35lamedi was making mp3's out of wav files in CDEX using lame, and i want to make certin if that builds the correct time tags for gapless or not.
22:42:25lamed(yes, id3tags, i guess, if that what Lame does)
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22:52:32lamedby my test, it seems Lame builds tags fine just by wav files, and rb is using them fine.
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23:08:52 Join muesli- [0] (
23:10:48muesli-exception in thread "main" java.lang.noclassdeffounderror: songdb/jar while using makedb.bat and creating a db. does somebody know how to fix this?
23:11:24Bagdermy guess: no
23:11:41muesli-it was working once upon a time...
23:12:24 Quit XavierGr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:12:40Bagderactually, I think HCl is the only one who ever touched that java code
23:13:25muesli-yeah..but he pretends to be offline
23:13:57muesli-anyway...i am not a friend of the db thoug
23:13:58MoosoffRockbox... :D
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23:18:13muesli-amiconn does the bootloader check on start which hdd (size) is build in?
23:18:56muesli-mk..makes sense
23:19:28muesli-because my i140 will is recognized as an 120
23:19:44Bagderrecognized by what?
23:19:54muesli-thats the question
23:20:18muesli-just see the boot screen when you turn it on
23:20:20Bagderthe bootloader is the same for 120 and 140
23:20:27MoosH140 & H120 concidered like 120
23:20:37Moosoops :)
23:20:53muesli-ok...makes sense ;)
23:21:21muesli-i was just curious
23:22:44amiconnI just discovered a funny effect. I have the same album encoded both as flac and wavpack, for testing. With flac, the peakmeter visibly lags...
23:23:57muesli-anyway..gotta go
23:24:07Moosgood night
23:31:54lamedif converting a file from Mp3 -> wav - > Mp3 (yeah, back to mp3, same quality, just for cropping and stuff) should harm it's quality?
23:32:39markuneverytime you encode you throw away information
23:33:56 Quit muesli- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:35:51lamedbut that's the thing, even if you take an mp3, load it onto an editor (goldwave/soundforge etc) edit it and save, doesn't it re-make it anyhow? then it should throw data in every save.
23:40:00 Join linuxstb [0] (
23:41:20linuxstblamed: It depends on the editor. There are some editors (e.g. mp3directcut) that can edit mp3 files without re-encoding. I have no idea what the editors you mentioned do.
23:42:02linuxstbBut you can probably tell by how long the load and save operations take to perform.
23:44:02amiconnThere are only very limited possibilities to edit an mp3 without re-encoding, namely cutting (only at frame boundaries), and coarse volume adjustment (1.5 dB steps) per frame, in a limited range. These possibilities are offered by specialised progams like mp3directcut
23:44:41amiconnAll other editing requires decoding and re-encoding, so if you use a lossy format like mp3, some quality is lost everytime
23:46:04 Join XavierGr [0] (
23:46:10amiconnTherefore it is not recommended to encode audio in any lossy format unless you are sure that no further processing is necessary.
23:46:26 Part XavierGr
23:47:54amiconnBtw, it's the same with image processing: lossy formats (e.g. jpeg) should be avoided except for the final result.
23:49:49linuxstbamiconn: Is there any reason you made those changes to crt0.s (apart from the fun of it) ? Have we gained anything?
23:50:53 Quit ender` (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:51:26preglowamiconn: and why not use jra and co instead of the explicit bra.x? then gas will select the smallest possible size for the jump
23:51:37amiconnThe coldfire changes are probably unnoticeable. Code got 28 bytes smaller and should be a bit faster, but the code is executed only once anyway
23:52:15amiconnI mainly did it for symmetry with my archos changes, which gain some more space (~100 bytes), and since archos is always short on space...
23:53:27amiconnpreglow: I like being explicit ;)
23:57:14amiconnI also wanted to get a better understanding of the init code. Going to implement the 2 additional iram sections...

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