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#rockbox log for 2005-10-21

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07:33:01Bger_morning :)
07:36:20XavierGrAhh I am Sleepy....
07:37:40Bger_me too
07:37:46XavierGrGot to go, later....
07:37:50dwihnowee! vim 6.4!
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07:53:16Bgerhi, Slasheri;)
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08:15:40***Started Dancer V4.16
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08:19:35TiMiDOpenOffice 2.0 is out \o_
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08:21:45CtcpVersion from freenode-connect!freenode@freenode/bot/connect
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08:26:21***Server message 477: 'logbot_ #RockBox :[freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify:'
08:41:51Slasherinow committed the playlist item skipping fix
09:07:55amiconnSlasheri: 3 remarks: (1) Shouldn't PLAYLIST_SEEK_MASK be 0x0FFFFFFF ? You just reserved one more bit, not 2.
09:08:11amiconn(2) Iiuc this code is used on all platforms, so archos now has 2 mechanisms to skip playlist entries
09:09:01amiconn(3) Your approach breaks an (esoteric) feature on Ondio
09:10:12SlasheriHmm :/ How it breaks Ondio?
09:10:25amiconnThe archos only keeps track of bad entries in the playback engine, but your approach marks the tracks as bad for the whole lifetime of the playlist
09:10:50amiconnHowever, if the playlist is repeated, an entry that was bad last time might no longer be bad....
09:10:56Slasheriamiconn: but archos could use that mechanism too.. case the user plugged the missing MMC in the meantime
09:11:22Slasheriamiconn: Hmm, if i understood correctly, that info is not stored on disk?
09:12:05amiconnI admit, this is somewhat esoteric, but I still like the archos meth
09:12:05SlasheriHmm, indeed.. That needs to be solved
09:12:08amiconn+od more
09:12:43amiconnIt's more dynamic ;)
09:13:34SlasheriHehe, but i can fix that new code if you think that is a proper way to implement it
09:14:00SlasheriI have thought the both ways and i found the playlist level more scalable
09:15:16Slasherioh yes, but archos doesn't even use it currently.. so at the moment there is no problems with that :)
09:15:58Slasherione good thing with that is that user can also see playlist entries marked as bad
09:17:43Slasherithe playlist viewer shows for example: 40. (ERR) some track if it's missing
09:18:20Slasheri(or playback code has found some problems with that track)
09:18:25amiconnWhy do you think the playlist level is more scalable?
09:19:20SlasheriHmm, because all units can use the same code and without thinking about the skipping in playback engine (which imho is better to be done in playlist)
09:21:35amiconnI don't think we will ever have more than two engines. In fact we should only have one at some point in the future
09:21:39Slasheriamiconn: yes, 0x0FFFFFFF is correct.. i will fix it
09:22:21amiconnThe marking in the pl viewer is a plus, I agree
09:22:34SlasheriBut still i think that job is playlist engine responsibility to give correct track entries to the playback enginge..
09:22:37amiconnbut an icon would be better than text for space considerations
09:22:47Slasheriyes, of course.. that can be changed later
09:23:01amiconn...especially on the good old player
09:30:17amiconnReplacing the standard 'note' icon with a broken one wouldn't require any additional space...
09:32:51Slasherihmm, that sounds good :)
09:34:19amiconnThe esoteric Ondio problem can probably be solved in a simple way
09:34:49amiconnIiuc, the marking happens on the fly, i.e. whenever the playback engine encounters a bad track?
09:35:19amiconnAll that is needed is a 'repair all' function, that marks all bad entries as repaired
09:35:38amiconnThis would then be called whenever an MMC was plugged
09:35:55Slasherihmm, true :) that should be a simple fix
09:35:55amiconnThe function can be #ifdef HAVE_HOTSWAP
09:37:30Slasheriwould you like i implement that function? I think it's better if i don't touch the archos playback engine itself because i don't have a unit to test with
09:44:05 Join pilot000 [0] (
10:06:18XavierGrso any idea why rockbox gives wrong values for total track time?
10:06:48XavierGrSometimes it goes more than 1 minute
10:07:10XavierGrand Winamp shows this correctly, (mp3 alt present standard)
10:15:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:24:38BgerXavierGr maybe it's better to send the file to Slasheri for example ...
10:27:01XavierGrbut this happens with almost all my vbr files!
10:28:52Bgerwhat tool are you using for tagging etc ?
10:29:20XavierGrthe godfather for tagging, EAC or dbpowerAMP for ripping
10:30:37Bgeru know, i don't have rb-ed unit yet, so i can't tell anything ...
10:33:26Bgeris this problem only recent ?
10:34:22XavierGrI don't really know, and no one else has reported this.
10:35:32 Quit arkascha (Remote closed the connection)
10:36:30Bgerthen i suggest u to send one problematic .mp3 to slasheri...
10:36:36XavierGrsomeone said to try vbr fix, I should give it a try first, it is just weird that winamp shows the right timing (iriver fw too)
10:44:23XavierGrI just encountered a song where Winamp says that it lasts 2.36 and rockbox says 5.09!!!!
10:44:35Bgerwow :)
10:44:51Bgermaybe rb wants to play it twice :P
10:46:12XavierGrI think that rockbox shows me the next track total time instead of the current!!!
10:46:42Bgeris your wps code correct ?
10:47:14XavierGrI will upload it to check it
10:48:08Bgeri'm not the right person to check it
10:48:41XavierGrwell I will post the link anyway if someone wants to check though I really doubt it is the wps to blame.
10:48:41 Quit DangerousDan ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
10:49:19XavierGrI will test with the default wps
10:52:52 Join LinusN [0] (
10:53:10LinusNXavierGr: do your vbr files have a correct vbr header?
10:53:38XavierGrI am not sure but both Winamp and iriver fw shoes them correctly
10:53:56LinusNcan you send me a file?
10:54:05XavierGrAlso it seems that rockbox shoes the timing from the previous track (not the next I though before)
10:54:48XavierGrI will send you a 2 small to see if they swap timings.
10:55:12XavierGrI will send them to your mailbox.
10:57:36XavierGrvery strange behaviour, I just made a playlist in rockbox with 2 non consequent (in the drive) files. The timings come from the previous file in my HD. Not even from the playlist...
10:57:37amiconnhi LinusN
10:58:02amiconnNo luck at all with the oldplayer lcd :(
10:58:15XavierGrI should try with a clean build, I use the radio patch and jpeg file scroller so I doubt that they are to blame.
10:59:02LinusNXavierGr: does the same thing happen if you play a directory?
11:00:36XavierGryes it will always show the timings for the track before. (the first track will get the timing from an unknown file, I will search to see from where)
11:00:52LinusNwhich build?
11:01:31amiconnLinusN: Btw, what was the problem with the build table?
11:01:46LinusNwas there a problem?
11:02:34LinusNi have no idea
11:02:58LinusNouch, disk full
11:03:19XavierGrhow much data in the disk?
11:03:57LinusNlots :-)
11:04:18XavierGrI can imagine....
11:04:20LinusNseems ok now though
11:08:05XavierGrnope, even with a clean build it will do this.
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11:21:12XavierGrok files sent Linus!
11:26:39HCldid the volume settings change? i just upgraded everything to the latest rockbox bootloader and so, and it sounds softer
11:27:51 Join Febs [0] (
11:31:07FebsSlasheri, take a look at this thread:
11:32:07LinusNXavierGr: how long is "A day without rain" on your player?
11:32:33LinusNXavierGr: sorry, how long is "Silver inches" on your player?
11:35:15XavierGr Linus: My player says 5.09
11:35:38LinusNmine says 2:29
11:35:59LinusNTempus vernum is 3:38 according to rockbox
11:36:03XavierGrwait a bit...
11:36:25LinusNthe weirdest thing of all is that vbrfix says that they aren't vbr files at all
11:36:37XavierGrwinamp says 2.25
11:36:56XavierGrand yes tempus vernum on rockbox says 3.38 to me too.
11:37:30XavierGrbut then it doesn't show the previous file... it is something else.
11:38:59XavierGr3.38 is the duration of the previous track on my player
11:39:10amiconnLinusN: Did you compare with rockbox on archos?
11:39:15LinusNnot yet
11:39:16XavierGrbut I sent you 2 files that are not in queue
11:39:26XavierGrso where that 3.38 came from?
11:39:54 Join muesli- [0] (
11:41:06XavierGrHello ;)
11:41:24XavierGrto sum it up there are 2 songs:
11:41:36muesli-drastwuj XavierGr ;)
11:41:57XavierGr1) Tempus Vernum Rockbox: 3.38 Winamp: 2.25
11:42:30XavierGr2) Silver Inches Rockbox: 2.29 Winamp: 1.37
11:42:47XavierGrany idea why is this happening
11:43:37LinusNhmmm, seems to be a bug in the LAME header parsing
11:44:09XavierGrand why Winamp and the iriver fw show correct values
11:44:26XavierGror you mean a bug in rockbox
11:44:34LinusNbug in rockbox
11:44:52XavierGris it difficult to fix? Is it only on the iriver?
11:49:15LinusNyuck, the rockbox sim disables my key repeat
11:49:43LinusNamiconn: are the Info and Xing headers really compatible?
11:50:48amiconnAfaik they should.
11:51:20amiconn(but it wasn't me who added Info header processing)
11:52:50amiconnLinusN: The rockbox sim disables key repeat only if its window is active, and it should reenable it when leaving. If it crashes at exit, it can't do that...
11:54:01LinusNok, i see now that the parsing is correct
11:54:15amiconnThe x11 sim must disable key repeat because of the silly way key repeat works in x11
11:54:34amiconnOtherwise it would be impossible to correctly simulate rockbox key repeat
11:57:17LinusNXavierGr: is this a new bug?
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11:57:47XavierGrI am not really sure to tell you the truth, but I have noticed this for some time.
11:58:36XavierGrDo you think that my mp3s are wrongly encoded?
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12:11:06LinusNXavierGr: no i don't
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12:15:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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12:49:13 Join webguest82 [0] (
12:49:53webguest82How are you.
12:50:08ashridahcan i buy you a beer?
12:50:48ashridahdon't worry, i watch too much tv.
12:50:55webguest82I English well a Korean it is.
12:51:39ashridahi think so
12:52:55webguest82I'm Korean H300 User
12:54:32webguest82Did the firmware modify of the H300 become how?
12:55:18ashridahit's not available yet. there's still work to do, and it's not progressing, pretty much because the people who can are busy
12:55:52 Join Bagder [0] (
12:56:15Bgerit's not done yet
12:56:17ashridahwebguest82: short answer. no
12:56:31webguest82It isn't working?
12:56:32ashridahwebguest82: it will be some time.
12:56:45Bgerit's not ready
12:56:53ashridahwebguest82: that's right, it doesn't work on the H300 yet
12:57:27webguest82When about it is started?
12:57:44ashridahwebguest82: when the developers get free time
12:59:16pillwebguest82: firmware for H300 started, not finished. finished when people have time. can be several months.
12:59:26webguest82It cannot but, it will be able to participate to it English?
13:00:10Bgerwebguest82 try again
13:00:25pillit's not your fault
13:00:40webguest82I can't English well
13:00:50Bgerask different way
13:01:23Bgerwith different words
13:02:22webguest82I can't English well but It will be able to participate?
13:02:40Bgerif u can program in C ...
13:03:05Bgerif you can program in C
13:03:05XavierGrC is a universal language, so yes....
13:03:22webguest82It does not do well.
13:04:14webguest82That description below it is difficult?
13:04:49Bgerdo you know what is C ?
13:05:19webguest82Programming language
13:05:38 Join _FireFly_ [0] (
13:05:38Bgereverybody can participate in 2 things mostly : programming and documentation
13:06:01Bgerand 3) bug reporting
13:06:17tvelocity4) idling in IRC
13:07:45webguest82^^ <- Smile Emoticon
13:08:37 Quit webguest82 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
13:08:49 Join webguest82 [0] (
13:08:56Bgerobviously these emoticons are a new generation ones:P
13:09:55tvelocitymaybe it's because people hang out so much on the net, that they have forgoten how a real face looks like
13:10:11Bgervery probably ;)
13:10:12_FireFly_Bger: ^_^ these emoticons are mainly used in asia
13:10:34XavierGrtvelocity: Look who's talking :P :P
13:10:39preglowespecially among mad korean starcraft players
13:10:43tvelocityno, no
13:10:55tvelocityi see plenty of people in the real world
13:10:59webguest82 nono
13:10:59Bgergoogle for asian emoticons :)
13:11:02XavierGrI heard that one died from playing too much!!!
13:11:03tvelocitythe real world = azeroth, right?
13:11:13webguest82especially among mad korean starcraft players <-?
13:11:53webguest82It is a bad intention?
13:11:58XavierGrIt is well known that Korean are fond of multiplayer games, especially Starcraft, isn't this true?
13:12:33XavierGrno, no offense webguest82.
13:12:35webguest82The long sentence reads and it is strenuous.
13:12:36preglowi love starcraft!
13:12:45XavierGrme too!
13:12:51tvelocitySC pwnz
13:13:04Bgerheh :) strange ones
13:13:10webguest82XavierGr: Yes..
13:13:25tvelocity(__o__) ok sorry, i couldnt resist
13:13:56XavierGris this an ass or am i dreaming things?
13:14:01tvelocityno no
13:14:05tvelocityit's a smiley face
13:14:08BgerXavierGr rofl
13:14:14tvelocitythat's a common smiley face in greece
13:14:42tvelocityit's clearly smiling, isn't it?
13:15:05XavierGrthey look like 2 buttchicks with a whole in the middle
13:15:37XavierGrtvelocity: are you sure?
13:15:43 Join rustic [0] (
13:15:56tvelocityyep, i'm possitively 110% sure
13:16:04rusticguten abend
13:16:09webguest82hi rustic kiuk kiuk
13:16:17tvelocityi know plenty of people that look like that
13:16:18rusticyeah, hi
13:16:22tvelocityespecialy politicians
13:16:27webguest82na sam
13:16:45XavierGrI typed \o/ the other day? What can you imagine this resmbles?
13:16:55webguest82hangul annaom
13:17:04XavierGrMuesli had a naughty thought
13:17:40tvelocityit's clearly a double layer DVD-RW with bethovens works recorded on it in ogg vorbis format
13:18:10tvelocitythere's also a textfile there but i can;t read it's contents
13:18:25webguest82The long sentence reads and it is strenuous. T^T
13:19:26rusticWe viel ist es?
13:20:03tvelocitywie viel ist was?
13:20:22rusticWie viel ist
13:20:42tvelocityhow many what?
13:20:44webguest82German language, %u7368%u9038%u8A9E]
13:21:11rusticI'm english novice
13:21:20tvelocityi used to be a native german speaker
13:21:34tvelocitybut now i have forgoten most of it
13:21:49webguest82%uFF3C( %u2207`)%u30CE,%u2033%u201C`%u043E%u039F,%u2033%u201C`%u043E%u039F%u221A(%u2200`%u221A)
13:22:11Bgerwebguest82 this is unreadable
13:22:12markunhtml encoded hangul?
13:22:17rusticI learn the deutsch from the school.
13:23:03tvelocityi'd like to learn japanese some day
13:24:00tvelocityi also tried to learn hebrew once all ny myself
13:24:10rusticI wants learning the japanese
13:24:26Bgerwow... : OGC <= man masturbating himself (taken from wikipedia) ... didn't know that there is emoticon for *that*
13:24:30tvelocityof course it was a disaster
13:24:32webguest82me too
13:24:42tvelocityi couldnt even memorize their alphabet
13:25:10tvelocityhow is that supposed to be a malakas?
13:25:38Bger08>C <= the same for a woman ...
13:25:42rustichey,bger , markun
13:25:47tvelocityah now i see it
13:25:51XavierGrhahaha I got it
13:25:51XavierGrG is the hand
13:25:58XavierGrC are his legs
13:26:07Bger<no comment />
13:26:20rustichey , Bger
13:26:22rusticThe web it uses the irc?
13:26:29Bgeryes, rustic ?
13:26:29tvelocity<!−− no comment −−>
13:27:12webguest8208>C ...
13:27:59rusticthis irc ...
13:28:13Bgerno, this irc doesn't use html
13:28:16rusticIt is a what kind of place?
13:28:30webguest82I'm sad
13:28:46Bgerrustic : if you don't know what is rockbox, see
13:28:49Bgerwebguest82 why
13:28:52webguest82It cannot read English..
13:29:35webguest82There is not a possibility of seeing the rockbox.
13:29:51Bgerwebguest82 it's not like you say
13:30:06Bgerwhen rockbox has unicode support
13:30:15Bgersomeone will translate it to korean
13:30:42Bgerfor what ?
13:31:01XavierGrI think there is already a patch for Korean support though I am not sure that it is translated.
13:32:01markunI have a korean language file that works with the unicode patch
13:32:17markunThe patch has just been updated. Works very good.
13:32:47Bgermarkun what's the status of the unicode patch?
13:33:02markunAlmost ready for commit
13:33:31Bgervery good news
13:34:00rusticThere is a person cs?
13:34:20webguest82CJK = Chinese Japanese Korean?
13:35:21webguest82It reads and it is strenuous.
13:36:12rusticyou know the dokdo?
13:37:32rusticdon't know dokdo ?
13:37:39rusticdokdo is korea island,
13:37:48rusticno japan island
13:38:09webguest82While working busy
13:40:11rusticyou know?
13:40:18rusticdokdo is korea island
13:40:47webguest82All for the wild iriver it works?
13:40:59rusticjapan sea ( no ) , East Sea ( Yes )
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13:43:04webguest82It is bored.
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13:45:48webguest82 iRiver H300 Korean User Forum
13:50:20webguest82It is born but for the rockbox the possibility of working it is?
13:50:45webguest82Me for the rockbox the possibility of working it is?
13:51:01 Quit webguest82 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
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13:53:34webguest82Why there isn't anyone end?
13:55:37webguest82Is that now dawn?
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14:18:55preglowso, anyone, what gain range do you want for the eq?
14:20:44preglow-24db to 24db sound ok?
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14:22:30Bgerpretty good i think
14:22:58Bgermaybe more than enough
14:23:03preglowyes, i should think
14:23:38dwihnoAnyone got ideas how to disable printer header/footer (ie) programatically?
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14:36:00Slasheripreglow: that should be enough :)
14:36:34preglowyes indeed
14:36:44preglowand will anyone kill me if i set a lower bound on Q to 1?
14:36:53preglowi don't think a q of 0.5 will be very useful for equalising
14:37:05Bgerbetter 0.5...
14:37:10Bgerbut as u wish
14:37:14preglowwell, no
14:37:16preglowi'll never use this
14:37:26preglowif anyone ever uses 0.5 for equalising, then that's the lower bound
14:37:58Bgeris it so difficult to change it later ?
14:38:00preglowit's no problem anyway, it's just for deciding on the fixed point format i have to use
14:38:07preglowdifficult no, but i'd rather just do it once, heh
14:38:17Bgerok, so it's not just a #define
14:38:53preglowi want to squeeze as much precision as i can from the processing, so i'll be designing the fixed point format pretty tightly
14:38:55Bgerthen better make it 0.5 step or there very probably will be someone complaining
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14:40:09Bgerotoh even with this someone can complain... :)
14:40:28preglowwith a q lower than 0.5, the whole eq band will more or less just be a volume control
14:40:35Bgerbut then u can just say him : DIY
14:40:36pregloweven pro eqs seldom let you go lower than 0.5
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14:57:01preglowok, and how high Q ?
14:57:06preglowthirty something?
15:00:58preglowhow high do you want the Q factor to be able to go?
15:01:08preglow31 is a nice number :P
15:01:25Bgerreally, i have no idea
15:01:28XavierGrwhy not 30?
15:01:36Bgerwhy not 42 ?:P
15:01:39preglowbecause 31 is 2^5 - 1
15:03:11XavierGrI don't know about you, but I am annyed (strange habbit) to see even numbers as maximum. Except the 5.
15:03:14Moospreglow: feel free to do what you think is best ;-)
15:03:27preglowMoos: problem is i never use eq
15:03:41Moosah, is for us users
15:04:18XavierGr32 or 30 I think is good but not 31... :p
15:04:20Moosme with iriver fw, I used the ultra bass one :)
15:05:02Moospreglow: you hear flat sound?
15:05:10BgerXavierGr maybe it's good for us, but not for the math ...
15:05:18preglowMoos: yep
15:06:34XavierGrBger I don't get will define a maximum number whats the difference between 31 or 32?
15:06:48preglowbecause 31 is a nice max that fills out a long
15:06:54preglowif it's not 31, it has to be 63
15:06:58preglowif not that, 127
15:07:16preglowi can use other values as well, but these are the maximums, why limit myself to 30 when i can have 31 in the same number of bits?
15:07:18_FireFly_254 :)
15:07:22BgerXavierGr 5 bits give values from 0 to 2^5 - 1 = (0,31)
15:07:35preglowand btw, you will ALMOST have 32 if i chose 31
15:07:36XavierGrwait a sec we are talking about integers here or not?
15:07:39preglow31.9999934 or something
15:07:43preglowXavierGr: fixed point
15:07:45XavierGryou can define a 5 bit integer?
15:07:46preglowXavierGr: so yes, integers
15:07:57preglowXavierGr: i have to split an integer into two parts: integer and fractional part
15:08:05preglowXavierGr: i'm trying to decide how many bits to use for the integer part
15:08:38XavierGrthen do it 31 you persuaded me
15:08:48preglowthis will be easiy to change anyway
15:09:02XavierGrI thought we were talking only for integers which go ~65000
15:09:11preglowprimarily i just want input from people who have used eqs before and know whether they'll ever need more than 31 Q
15:09:30BgerXavierGr the iriver CPU doesn't have floating point, but has fixed point unit
15:10:45Bgerand u decide how many bits to use for the integer part and how many for the part after the decimal point
15:10:54Bgerin floating point arithmetic you have percision (for example 10 digits) and exponent
15:11:34Bgervery rough explanation, but...
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15:12:22XavierGrI don't have experiance about this, but I thought that when you programm and declare a valuer you type: (unsigned or long,short) int x for integers and (unsigned) float x for decimal numbers
15:12:39preglowXavierGr: nah, you can do fractional numbers with integers as well
15:12:47preglowXavierGr: just look up 'fixed point math' if you're interested
15:12:52XavierGrI understand what you say but whats the declaration process of this
15:12:59BgerXavierGr this is on lower level than C ..
15:13:07preglowyou just use ordinary long and int variables
15:13:09Bgerpreglow uses directly the EMAC unit
15:13:28XavierGrso preglow are you writting it into C or assembly?
15:13:32preglowand ordinary math operators +, *, etc
15:13:38Bgerhm, sorry then
15:13:42XavierGrso not C invloved?
15:13:47preglowi use just c
15:13:54preglowand i tiny, tiny bit of asm for when i use the emac unit
15:14:24XavierGrI am just weird to see the declaration of such numbers
15:15:00XavierGrsorry to bother you but what is the emac you always refer for optimizations?
15:15:03BgerXavierGr he just uses normal C integer types...
15:15:25BgerEnhanced Multiply & Accumulate Unit
15:15:48XavierGris it hardware?
15:15:49LinusNXavierGr: it's a special CPU unit that performs fast multiplication of (fixed point) numbers
15:15:57Bgerand addition (afaik)
15:15:58LinusNyes, it's hardware
15:16:04LinusNBger: correct
15:16:27Bgerand the GCC doesn't know about it, so to use it u must use coldfire assembly
15:16:45preglowi'm working on the coefficient calculation at the moment, i wont get to use the emac much there
15:16:57XavierGrI see so this does faster calculations with numbers then
15:17:10Bgermultiply and addition mainly
15:17:12LinusNyes, specially designed for DSP functions
15:17:19preglowi've never done coef calculations in fixed point before, so i'm just trying things out
15:17:21Bgerit doesn't have devision
15:18:27preglowno, but you can have 64 bit division in c anyway, via / and &
15:18:31preglowehh, / and %
15:18:41preglowi wont use those in innerloops :P
15:18:49Bgeryes, but this is sloow
15:19:30_FireFly_affaik can you make division and multiply through shifting
15:19:43Bgeronly by powers of 2 ?
15:20:23preglowand that's not enough, i'm afraid
15:20:34_FireFly_ah ok
15:20:34preglowanyway, the eq inner loop will only use the emac
15:20:36preglownothing else
15:20:39XavierGris it true that iriver would be much more versatile if its CPU could handle floating point?
15:20:44preglowthis is coef calculation, and will happen very seldom
15:20:54LinusNXavierGr: sort of
15:20:58preglowXavierGr: you can do almost everything in fixed point, that you can do in floating point
15:21:02preglowXavierGr: it's just more cumbersome
15:21:13XavierGrbut with more tasks
15:21:19XavierGreach time
15:21:35XavierGrso to handle a float you must use more CPU time right?
15:21:38Bgerotoh it depends on the floating point unit realisation ... it can be very slow
15:21:51preglowmost modern fpus are very fast
15:22:02preglowbut require quite some silicon
15:22:13*Bger remembers the slow fpu of amd up to k7 ...
15:22:31preglowit's been quite a while since doing floating point math became faster than doing fixed point math on x86
15:22:38XavierGrwhy choose a non-float CPU in our days anyway? Then we could port more code without the concerns of floats.
15:22:52preglowalmost no embedded cpus have fpus because of the silicon issue
15:22:56preglowit takes up valuable space
15:22:58LinusNXavierGr: price, die size and power consumption
15:23:08preglowwhat linus said :)
15:23:19XavierGrwow that much?
15:23:34LinusNbesides, floating point isn't always the best solution anyway
15:23:36BgerXavierGr they usually use DSP instead of fpu or i'm wrong
15:23:54preglowwell, yeah, in some cases
15:23:55LinusNBger: there are floating point dsp's too
15:24:08preglowin our case they just use the ordinary cpu integer math with a couple of MAC extensions
15:24:14XavierGryeah but in the wiki I always read: Floating point encoder so.... "next"
15:25:10preglowconverting a floating point project to fixed point requires a pretty experienced coder
15:25:11LinusNXavierGr: yes, that's because the coder didn't write it for embedded use
15:26:21XavierGrok now lets see other DAPS. Do you know one that has float CPU?
15:27:24preglownot even palm pcs have float cpus
15:27:53XavierGrand one last comment then, would it be better or worse to have such a cpu for rockbox and the project overall?
15:28:08Bgerit would be easier ...
15:28:16preglowbetter, sure
15:28:21preglowwe could port much stuff straight
15:28:26preglowand coding dsp would be easier, at least for me
15:28:36XavierGrbut in the battery aspect?
15:28:42preglowi have no idea
15:29:08XavierGra little worse or iPod efficiency! :P
15:31:46XavierGrLinus: What about the LAME header and the incorrect playing times? Did you found the bug?
15:33:47LinusNhad to take my daughter to the dentist after a nasty fall, so i had to stop debugging
15:34:06LinusNa very loose tooth
15:34:28preglowhow old is she?
15:34:49LinusNshe turned 3 today, it's her birthday
15:34:58XavierGrohh sorry to hear that, is she allright?
15:35:17Moosbadluck :(
15:35:18XavierGrHappy birthday to her, many and happy years to come!
15:35:20LinusNyeah, we'll see about the tooth, she'll probably lose it
15:35:47Bgerit's not such a big problem at this age ...
15:35:50LinusNbut she'll get new ones anyway after a few years
15:35:53preglowoh well, just make sure she doesn't repeat it when the new one arrives
15:38:55preglowmy brother fell down a flight of stairs when he was a bit older, to slightly worse results
15:39:00preglowkids do tend to fall a lot
15:39:33Moosit's normal :)
15:40:02preglow_I_ fell down a flight of stairs _with_ my then 4 year old brother once, which rendered me quite shaken and dizzy, haha
15:40:19preglowand him yelling for more
15:42:11XavierGrdoes anyone thinks here that maybe the default fond for iriver is a little small? Though someparts of the code must be rewritten if the font size changes(text will not fit)
15:42:18preglowi think it's just right
15:43:04MoosI think so here
15:43:48XavierGrYeah but I bet that you use another for your preference. (just asking, not that it bothers me)
15:45:08preglowwhat do you mean? i use the default font, if that's what you're asking
15:45:35XavierGrseriously? wow you must have good sight!
15:45:37Mooshere, long time use default font, then neodore for the same font in bold, and now helvet one ;-)
15:46:25XavierGrI used a custom big one (6 lines maximum) but recently I changed again to chicago12
15:47:39Mooshere chicago doesn't work with french language
15:47:55XavierGrWhat can I say?
15:48:31XavierGrWhen Unicode patch is commited it would be much easier I think.
15:48:54Mooshehe maybe :)
15:49:03preglowXavierGr: moderately good sight, though it's starting to fail :/
15:49:09preglowmight even have to get glasses soon1
15:51:20preglowkind of a miracle it hasn't happened before now, considering how much time i've spent either looking at a screen or reading other material
15:51:34preglownot to mention all the video game playing i did in my younger days
15:51:49Moospreglow: did you tested neodore font?, same as defaut but in bold
15:52:03preglowcan't say i did, is it bundled with default rockbox?
15:52:26Moosyes in rockbox dir font
15:53:28preglownice enough, but like the default better
15:53:36preglowi used to use proportional as well
15:53:48Moosquestion of habbit ;)
16:05:59preglowi wouldn't want to use proportional in the gui, since i think a fixed width font looks better there
16:06:04preglowbut for the viewer, i prefer proportional
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16:29:45amiconnXavierGr: I agree that the default font on iriver could be a bit larger
16:30:17amiconnIn order to make it appear the same physical size as on archos, we would need a 7x10 pixel font instead of 6x8
16:36:20muesli-LinusN is there a bootloader for h3xx in sight?
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16:42:54preglowdon't hold your breath
16:43:22preglowyou'll hear about it when it's ready
16:54:53muesli-otf love that flash
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16:58:05TiMiDLinusN: I updated my patch ... I changed the copyright too, but I still don't know if tit's good that way
17:01:53_FireFly_muesli-: ;)
17:02:22muesli-ff ;)
17:03:57MoosLinus: think you, you can give CVS access to TiMiD?
17:04:54Moosor Bagder, Zagor :)
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17:15:54TiMiDI have a question
17:16:21TiMiDhow do you handle copyrights in rockbox code
17:16:43LinusNeach file has an author
17:17:14LinusNand that statys until *major* changes are done to the file
17:18:04TiMiDI saw in several others open source projects that files have a list of persons wh worked on it
17:18:50TiMiDhere the problem is that in some of the new files I made I included big parts of code, but not from one peson, from several persons ...
17:19:18LinusNto be honest, we haven't cared much at all about copyright
17:19:18LinusNbut yes, it could very well be a list of people
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17:19:39TiMiD(I don't even speak of me since in some of these files I only brought minor modifications in term of functionnalities)
17:20:15TiMiDis it possible to copyright a file for a list of people instead ?
17:20:30 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
17:21:48TiMiDfor example "Copyright (C) Robert E. Hak (2002), Linus Nielsen Feltzing (2002), Kévin Ferrare (2005)"
17:22:04TiMiD(statusbar code)
17:22:40MoosLinus: doesn't think you it's could be best to give CVS acces to TiMiD (Kevin Ferrar) instead of "lost" your time to look at his multi diplay patch ... ?
17:23:18LinusNMoos: that's a way of viewing it, but it's not wasted time for me
17:23:29Moos:) sure
17:23:55LinusNthe thing is that we want to make sure that the coder in question does "the right thing" before we grant CVS access
17:24:32LinusNin this case it's only a matter of time before i give TiMiD cvs access
17:24:41TiMiDhehe :)
17:25:12TiMiDdo you think my code can go into CVS in a short time ?
17:25:34TiMiD(I'm bored to update it each time somonemodify my files :p)
17:25:42LinusNi know the feeling
17:25:52LinusNi have 2 things on my mind:
17:25:53Moosit's why I asked :)
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17:26:13LinusN1) Is this the way to do it, and how does it affect Rockbox as a whole?
17:26:30LinusN2) Does it break anything?
17:26:48TiMiDI would add 3) your daughter and your wife ;)
17:27:19muesli-some oz here?
17:27:36LinusNTiMiD: hehe
17:27:37TiMiDabout 2 I tested on the simulator on each plateforms and it was just working fine
17:28:12TiMiDabout 1 .. it's the only solution I found to reduce the code size while adding this multi-screen feature
17:28:33_FireFly_yepp my approach ha blown the code a little bit ;)
17:28:51TiMiD(even if i don't think we are gonna see 3-screened mp3 players soon)
17:29:07TiMiDbut if that was the case, the app code would be ready
17:29:16TiMiDwiththat aproach
17:30:05LinusNi think your code looks good (except for the looooong function names :-)
17:30:14Moosplus remote wasn't with first platforms, is it one other step for Rockbox
17:30:52TiMiDI changed that (the fn names)
17:31:06TiMiDshorte ones :)
17:31:39LinusNi'm not sure i like having all these gui_ files, though? any special reason that each widget is a separate file?
17:32:11TiMiDI want to put those filesin a separate directory
17:32:22LinusNnot a bad idea
17:33:14TiMiDI separated the code in small files to makeit more readable
17:33:27TiMiDsince these files are independant
17:33:39amiconnLinusN: Remember that we already talked about a similar approach for reducing the code size of the lcd drivers?
17:33:53amiconnToday, the lcd driver share quite some code
17:34:05TiMiD(when I see an 3000 lines code source, my first thought is to run away :D)
17:34:11LinusNamiconn: yes
17:34:27amiconn...which is therefore included twice for lcd-remote platforms (H1x0)
17:34:35TiMiDamiconn: I proposed that too if I can remember
17:34:36LinusNTiMiD: that's a valid reason imho
17:34:57TiMiDit's notonly the Hx0
17:35:06amiconnIt is for now
17:35:15amiconnMaybe other platforms in future
17:35:33TiMiDthe high level display access fn are the same for all playerswith graphic displays
17:35:56TiMiD(like "draw a line", "display a char" etc)
17:39:20amiconnYes, but they aren't included twice except on the H1x0
17:39:33TiMiDof course
17:39:39amiconnPlus, some of the optimised primitives work different
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17:40:31TiMiDmaybe a single fin with #ifdef wuld be more efficient for these primitives
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17:41:18TiMiDthat would avoid to be obliges to maintain as many fn asthere are models of screens when changing one thing to those functions
17:42:04TiMiDthat the main reason I see, beyon the fact that effectively it eats a little more memory on iriver when compiled
17:42:33amiconnAh yes, unifying the source is still an option even if the runtine fns will be different
17:43:19amiconnHmm, but that requires to have an include file which is not a .h because it contains code...
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17:44:14_FireFly_*.inl for example when using templates in c++
17:44:53TiMiDI don't see why we need to include fiels with code ?
17:46:35amiconnWe would need it for unifying the source for gfx functions that need #ifdefs inside
17:47:04amiconnThe source file containing these would need to be included from the actual driver sources
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17:48:41TiMiDwhy not a single fn with all the possibilities with ifdefs ?
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17:55:56]RowaN[whats the difference between "insert next" and "queue next" in the file playlist options?
17:56:58amiconnTiMiD: You can't have it as a single fn with all possibilities if it is needed twice in different configurations
17:57:08amiconn(H1x0 main and remote display)
17:57:16LinusN]RowaN[: the inserted file will stay in the playlist, while the queued file is removed after it has been played
17:57:17MoosRowan: with queue next, after played the file disapear at playlist playing
17:57:31amiconnOr rather, you can, but it needs to be compiled twice with different #ifdefs selected
17:58:00amiconn...and to do this within one file, you need to include it from 2 different other files
17:58:05TiMiDfor fn like draw line, the only thing that change is the screen size
17:58:16TiMiDthat's not a big deal
17:58:23amiconnThe line drawing isn't the problem. The optimised primitives are
17:58:44TiMiDthe optimized primitives should be in separate files
17:58:51TiMiDas "drivers"
17:59:09TiMiDI was speaking about high level drawing fn
17:59:46TiMiDimho they should even be in application layer
18:00:13TiMiD(and use driver services)
18:01:00LinusNwe want to keep the overhead as low as possible
18:01:15LinusNespecially on the archos devices
18:01:36TiMiDoverhead ?
18:01:42preglowis there some fixed point rule i don't know about that explains the implicit left shift in an emac multiplication?
18:03:57 Join ghode [0] (
18:04:37amiconnAfaiu, fractional mode operates on numbers in th [-1..+1) range. The left shift by 1 ensures a correct result
18:04:54preglowyes, it does
18:05:13preglowi just wonder why, and if this is something that applies too all signed fixed point muls
18:05:29preglowi'm no fixed point expert, unfortunately
18:06:37]RowaN[thanks linus,moos
18:06:57amiconnIt's quite simple, imho. Multiplying 2 fixed point numbers is the same as multiplying two integers followed by a shift
18:07:36]RowaN[i have an ihp120, but my neighbour has an archos.. is there a similar .exe that injects the bootloader into firmware for archos?
18:07:41amiconnThe range [-1..+1) means 1.31 fixed point (1 bit integer/sign part, 31 bits fraction)
18:08:37amiconnStandard multiplication (32*32->64) gives a 2.62 number.
18:09:26amiconnCorrecting that to 1.31 means shifting right by 31 positions, then dropping the top 32 bits
18:10:16amiconnThis is identical to using the high 32 bits only, shifted left by one position
18:11:53amiconnThe top 33 bits of course, in order not to loose precision
18:12:42preglowamiconn: hmm, yes, this makes sense
18:13:27preglowamiconn: i was just a bit puzzled at how the sign bits fitted in, but i understand now, thanks
18:15:06TiMiDamiconn: so what do you think about the drawing functions ?
18:15:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:17:32amiconnIt's not important to do it right now. I have some ideas how this could be handled, but it will probably increase code size a bit for platforms with only one display
18:17:59amiconnI want to see the code size reduction by the widget code first :)
18:18:16TiMiDsure :)
18:18:50TiMiDalso, what do tou think about the copyright in files ?
18:18:50 Quit ]RowaN[ ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
18:26:15_FireFly_TiMiD your latest patch can't be applied clean under linux
18:26:44_FireFly_because he wants to patch apps/sources but it should be apps/SOURCES
18:26:59LinusNah, yes, i forgot to mention that
18:27:29_FireFly_and something about a cvs/Entries
18:28:16_FireFly_in plugin/...
18:29:15Slasheripatch should not contain cvs/
18:29:15Slasheria proper way to take it is to cvs-do add <newfiles> and then cvs diff should work
18:29:54_FireFly_or exclude CVS dirs
18:30:22_FireFly_diff −−exclude="CVS"
18:30:44TiMiDso bad :(
18:30:52TiMiDI moved the code to a fat partition :(
18:31:18 Quit Bger (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
18:34:55TiMiDSlasheri: it's not very convenient to do it that way since I have a lot of new files :p
18:35:19TiMiDand since I must do it each time someone change my code ...
18:35:31 Join Sw00p [0] (
18:35:36TiMiD(the files which I change)
18:36:36Sw00pis there a list somewhere that shows all the buttons for the iRiver with the corresponding name (like "BUTTON_MENU")
18:39:21TiMiDfor example firmware/drivers/button.c
18:44:54Sw00pi meant more like what button on the player is BUTTON_F1 on the player (the play button, or the A/B-Mode button, or the stop-button)
18:45:38TiMiDdepends of the application ...
18:48:19Sw00pok, i was just looking through the plugins and trying to figure out how they work
18:48:40Sw00pthen i wondered if I might be able to change the video.c so it would work on the irver
18:49:09Sw00pbut in order to do that i would have to know what the buttons are called
18:49:19TiMiDvideo ?
18:49:26TiMiDyou mean video playback ?
18:49:46 Join |Lupin| [0] (
18:49:58Sw00pi guess this is what the plugin is for
18:49:59|Lupin|Hello, everybody.
18:50:10Sw00pits under /apps/plugins/video.c
18:50:15TiMiDhi |Lupin|
18:50:26|Lupin|Just a quic question: Does either RockBox or Iriver's original firmware support audio books sold by ?
18:50:29TiMiDSw00p: it's not very easy to do it
18:51:01Sw00pi just started to read through the code and try to understand it
18:51:28TiMiDafaik the main reason why it hasnt been ported to iriver is stht thevideo format is specifical to archos display (timongs etc)
18:51:29Sw00pmaybe i should start somewhere else should I?
18:52:10TiMiDif you are new to rb yes :)
18:52:33Sw00pk, then i'll do that :)
18:53:50 Join RiverFish [0] (
18:55:03TiMiDafaik they are going to create video codecs since the H300 is coming :)
18:56:14|Lupin|Nobody knows anything about audio-books, pls ?
18:56:37TiMiDsory I don't know :/
18:56:40preglowi know their format and protections mechanism is secret
18:57:02|Lupin|oh dear
18:57:04|Lupin|thanks all
18:57:20|Lupin|Yet another Copy Control system which prevents a legitimate usage...
18:58:47TiMiDdon't buy your books there :)
18:59:04|Lupin|I'm blind
18:59:15|Lupin|Some books are not easy to find...
18:59:30amiconnThe problem with porting video.rock is the audio playback
18:59:35 Join Lear [0] (
18:59:47amiconnFor this to work on a swcodec platform, plugins need access to the codecs
19:00:21TiMiDyou mean only video would work on iriver ?
19:00:41amiconnVideo frames are rather straight forward - the max. resolution is a bit higher, and the optimal frame frequency is different (70Hz instead of 67Hz)
19:01:15amiconnThe converter tools would need to be adapted, but that's simple, at least for the commandline tools
19:01:38TiMiDwill there be a code api for video ?
19:01:47amiconnBut - video w/o audio is booring ;)
19:02:38TiMiDonlyvideo is better than no video at all ^^
19:03:29TiMiDapplication program interface
19:03:39TiMiDI meant codecs
19:03:55amiconnvideo.rock doesn't use any codecs
19:04:31TiMiDI know :)
19:04:46amiconnThe video frames are plain b&w frames in native lcd format on archos. On iriver they will use the same format, although it's not 100% native
19:05:15amiconnIt can be converted to native on-the-fly, but only uses half the space as the real native format
19:05:30amiconn(current lcd_blit() already does this conversion)
19:05:32preglow|Lupin|: it seems audible files are simple mp3s encrypted in some way
19:05:42TiMiDwould be the iriver able to play "standard" compressed video formats ?.
19:05:52TiMiD(in terms of cpu power)
19:06:01amiconnI have no idea
19:06:05SlasheriHmm, sounds interesting. The video file controls directly the lcd?
19:06:06TiMiDI remember I could play low res divx on my old P100
19:09:10 Quit paugh (Excess Flood)
19:09:24preglowSlasheri: rvf files are in the format native to the lcd, yes
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19:09:39preglowSlasheri: afaik, you can more or less stream the format straight to the lcd controller
19:09:52preglowthis will be really unpractical for newer players, heh
19:11:30Slasheripreglow: hehe, at least it will work on players with slow cpu too ;)
19:12:13 Join jkarp [0] (
19:14:50jkarpAnyone got time to answer some Qs about Player button mappings?
19:15:08*preglow vanishes
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19:32:50 Part LinusN
19:40:27amiconnpreglow: On iriver you can't stream the format directly to the lcd controller, at least not using the lcd mode rockbox uses now (4-grey)
19:41:17amiconnOn archos you can, and converting from this monochrome lcd format to 4-grey on the fly is simple
19:42:23amiconnA compressed video format would probably not gain much space on these low-depth displays, and the handling would be even more complex than for high-depth displays
19:43:26amiconnI guess as soon as there is basic rockbox on H300, someone will start fiddling with video codecs...
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19:54:21Sw00pcya all
19:54:24 Quit Sw00p ("gamers.satisfaction (Gamers.IRC powered by get it @")
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20:15:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:41:50muesli-amiconn will there be grayscale support for the remote sometime?
20:45:01 Quit Lear ("Chatzilla [Firefox 1.4.1/undefined]")
20:45:32amiconnmuesli-: Should be technically possible, however I probably won't do it
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20:46:04amiconnWhat's probably impossible is to have greyscale running on main & remote at the same time
20:46:34amiconnI don't care much about the remote; I never used it for real, only for testing
20:47:37muesli-yeah..i know :-/
20:48:23Maximei thought remote was not grayscale?
20:49:16jkarpI'm still looking for help w/ Studio20 button mappings. Anyone here versant in the wps.c / wps.h code?
20:49:36muesli-Maxime yepp..thats i am asking
20:50:03_FireFly_afaik the iriver fw doesn't use grayscale images on the remote
20:50:13_FireFly_or i can't see it
20:50:20MaximeI saw somewhere in the wiki that the remote screen was only black and white :x
20:50:31XavierGryes it doesn't
20:50:31muesli-nope...grayscale was introduced by amiconn
20:50:32amiconnMaxime: muesli- is talking about a mechanism like the grayscale library
20:50:42Maximesry ^^
20:51:20amiconnThe iriver main lcd does native greyscale display, but only 4 shades are possible.
20:51:37amiconnThe archos recorder lcd is b&w only, like the iriver remote lcd
20:52:02amiconnThe grayscale library allows to display up to 33 shades on both the iriver main lcd and the archos lcd :)
20:53:09 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
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20:55:21Maximeok i see
20:56:38muesli-anyway i would love grayscales on the remote...
20:58:58amiconnmuesli-: For what? The lcd is so tiny... it's even physically smaller than the archos player lcd
21:00:46muesli-because i see the unit twice in a day: in the morning when i put in my bag and in the evening when i put out..but i am using the remote the whole time
21:01:28_FireFly_for what do you want the gray-scale support on the remote ??
21:01:56muesli-eye candy :D
21:02:44_FireFly_in this case i think that wouldn't make any sense to add it
21:02:48 Join linuxstb [0] (
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21:09:34jkarpGuess I'll try my luck on the dev mailing list.
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22:07:18 Part Philip_0729
22:09:51miner49erhi there! Can anyone give me a hand setting up building rockbox in debian, i've finally got it installed but havn't a clue for building rockbox (it was easy in XP with bluechips devkit!)
22:11:23Bagderand you followed the docs?
22:13:13miner49eroh, I didn't know there were docs for linux building....give me an hour or so!
22:16:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:16:21miner49erdownloading binutils, ooh exciting!
22:17:17miner49erThis is cool, i've been trying to install debian for ages.
22:17:39Bagderdebian simply rocks
22:18:00miner49eri've setup an old PC as a router (coolness) and finally got the internet working on this debina box...ace
22:18:13miner49erhah "debina"!
22:18:24miner49eryeah debian's ace
22:19:22miner49erI wanted to get rockbox building on linux so I could use the simulator, it's a pain constantly unplugging my archos to test code out!
22:20:09BagderI know the feeling
22:20:20Bagderbut it should work rather fine on windows too
22:21:08miner49erI couldn't get it working. Well to be honest I have probably used it as an excuse for installing debian!
22:22:25BagderI've never built rockbox nor the sim on windows
22:23:36miner49erthat's binutils downloaded! that was damn quick!
22:25:29miner49erFor my archos, I need GCC 3.4.x, yeah? Colfire?
22:26:01Bagderfor archos the 3.3.X series is better
22:26:14Bagderfor coldfire, 3.4.x is fine
22:26:21Bagderor even 4.0.x these days
22:27:10miner49erdamn, I just started 3.4.4, canceling it!
22:28:06miner49er..getting 3.3.4
22:29:08 Join amx [0] (
22:34:26miner49erBadger: I installed debian from CD originally, so now apt-get keeps asking for CD's (for example trying to install firefox) do you know how to point it at the relevant internet location instead?
22:34:40pabsminer49er: edit /etc/apt/sources.list
22:34:41 Join dpassen1 [0] (
22:34:47pabsminer49er: then run apt-get update
22:35:13miner49erokay, thanks pabs
22:37:16amiconnminer49er: Get the latest 3.3.x for archos (3.3.6)
22:38:07miner49ercheers amiconn :-)
22:39:32miner49erokay pabs, call me stupid but what do I actually edit in sources.list? Just remove the references to the CD's?
22:39:52pabsminer49er: you'll want to comment out the cd references, then add some deb lines that point to a debian mirror
22:40:09pabsminer49er: what version of debian are you running (eg potato, sid, sarge, etc)
22:40:28miner49ercomment out with hash # yeah? I'm running sarge
22:40:40pabsyeah, a hash
22:41:05pabsminer49er: the mirror i use is (depending on where you're located, there might be a faster one for you available)
22:41:17pabsminer49er: but anyway, here's what my deb lines look like (for the core debian stuff):
22:41:56pabsdeb unstable main contrib non-free
22:42:01pabsdeb-src unstable main contrib non-free
22:42:22pabs(and you should replace unstable with your distribution, eg sarge for sarge, etc)
22:42:40miner49eris that just the kernel stuff though, what about the packages?
22:43:08pabsminer49er: is a debian package mirror
22:43:17miner49eroh right, okay
22:43:27pabsit's hosted on, that's where the part of the name comes from
22:43:48miner49erthat must be a fairly big old sever then!
22:43:53Bagderand it refers to 'nstable'
22:43:56Bagderunstable even
22:43:57pabsthere's a whole lot of debian mirrors out there, see for more
22:44:12pabsBagder: it's kind of a misnomer really
22:44:22 Join solexx [0] (
22:44:27Bagderjust pointing it out, as miner49er may not be aware
22:44:31pabsBagder: "bleeding-edge" might be more apt
22:44:38pabsBagder: ah, okay
22:44:40BagderI'm on unstable myself
22:44:48pabsBagder: i aws trying to get him to change it to sarge
22:44:52pabsBagder: cool :D
22:45:07miner49erI appreciate all help :-) i'm very new to linux (yes, that's right a newbie!)
22:46:10pabshey everybody's new to something
22:48:00pabsminer49er: there's a couple more lines you might want to add for sarge too
22:48:11miner49erokay, fire away!
22:48:12pabsthe security package lines, they look like this:
22:48:15pabsdeb sarge/updates main contrib non-free
22:48:18pabsdeb-src sarge/updates main contrib non-free
22:49:26pabsso, the whole file would look like this (ignoring commented lines, of course):
22:49:27pabsdeb unstable main contrib non-free
22:49:27pabsdeb-src unstable main contrib non-free
22:49:27DBUGEnqueued KICK pabs
22:49:27pabsdeb sarge/updates main contrib non-free
22:49:27pabsdeb-src sarge/updates main contrib non-free
22:49:36***Alert Mode level 1
22:49:57pabsrather, it'd look like this (sorry, typo):
22:49:58pabsdeb sarge main contrib non-free
22:49:58pabsdeb-src sarge main contrib non-free
22:49:58***Alert Mode level 2
22:49:58pabsdeb sarge/updates main contrib non-free
22:49:58***Alert Mode level 3
22:49:58pabsdeb-src sarge/updates main contrib non-free
22:49:58miner49erwhat's the non-free bit all about? I though debian was 100% free?
22:50:23miner49erright, sarge instead of unstable
22:50:38pabsminer49er: the core of debian is all free software, but some stuff is under non-DFSG (debian free software guidelines) licenses
22:50:41pabsminer49er: yeah, instead of sarge
22:51:02pabsminer49er: so the non-free bit pulls in software that's still free to use, but not compatible with the debian licensing policy
22:51:28miner49er..and all the free stuff?
22:52:06pabsminer49er: all the free stuff goes into main
22:52:25miner49eraaw problems. deb-src sarge/updates main contrib non-free
22:52:32miner49erignore that
22:52:57pabshonestly i've never used the security trees, so i might have mucked up the URL for them
22:53:08pabswhenever i install debian, i immediately upgrade to sid (unstable)
22:53:33miner49eris it much better? I think i'll wait untill i'm comftable with this though
22:53:34pabsalthough i'm not recommending you do that just yet (especially not right now, they're in the middle of an ABI change, spurred by a GCC upgrade)
22:53:42pabsso it's a wee bit of a madhouse
22:53:44pabsminer49er: it's different
22:54:19miner49eri'm getting could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavaialble
22:54:28miner49ersomething using dpkg?
22:54:37pabsminer49er: are you running it as root?
22:54:45pabsminer49er: su -c 'apt-get update'
22:54:48miner49eryeah, should I not be?
22:54:55pabs(or, if you've got sudo set up, sudo apt-get update)
22:55:00pabsminer49er: you should be running it as root, yeah
22:55:14pabsminer49er: did you pause in the middle of an upgrade before, or are you rnning either synaptic or aptitude?
22:56:08miner49erI tried installing firefox previously and it didn't work as it asked for the CD's, which I've lent to a pal. That's all i've done
22:57:34pabsminer49er: usually when you get that lock error, it's because there's another instance of dpkg or apt running
22:58:14markunoops.. this must be #debian :)
22:58:23miner49erhmm, i've only one Terminal open? can one terminal have several processes running from it?
22:58:44miner49ersh*t sorry, this is meant to be Rockbox
22:59:11pabsminer49er: you can have several processes in one terminal
22:59:54miner49eryeah, ps tells me there is apt-get running on PID 2029
22:59:59***Alert Mode OFF
23:00:14pabsdid you background it earlier or something?
23:00:44miner49ernot on purpose!
23:00:52pabstyping "fg" might bring it back
23:01:00pabsalternatively you can do su -c 'killall apt-get'
23:01:35pabspress f5?
23:01:39pabswrong window, sorry
23:01:47pabsthe killall apt-get is for you
23:01:50pabsthe other line is for my girlfriend
23:01:55pabs(fixing her computer at the same time)
23:02:43miner49erhey man, ps tells me there are loads of processes running 2 pings and 3 vi's
23:03:10miner49erthis is weird, I use ctrl x to exit, is this not correct?
23:04:16pabsctrl-c is better to cancel stuff
23:04:27pabsand obviously <esc>:q! to quit out of vi
23:05:12miner49erbut Ctrl c takes me out, does that not kill the process?
23:06:04 Quit strath (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:08:11pabsminer49er: that should kill it, ctrl-z backgrounds things
23:08:13pabsfrom the terminal
23:08:30miner49eraaaaahhhh, right, this would explain it
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23:31:06TiMiDI just want to say that it seems there is a little bug in the X11 similator on iriver : the remote emulated screen displays one pixel row less
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