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#rockbox log for 2006-01-07

00:00:15 Join lokki [0] (
00:00:49lokkilistening to my flac collection on my iriver...awesome!
00:01:00 Join ashridah [0] (
00:01:59preglowi agree
00:02:17lokkiyou can hear the difference
00:02:30lokkimp3 <−−> flac
00:02:34preglowhell yes
00:02:42preglowwithout too much bother
00:03:16lokkii used mp3 for like two years... now i reencode everything
00:03:35muesli__could one of you send me a flac-file? never heard one before
00:03:52lokkiwhy not create one for yourself?
00:04:00preglowi've got too much music to encode losslessly
00:04:08preglowand when i do encode lossless, i tend to use wavpack
00:04:14muesli__lokki just want one to test..
00:04:22preglowit's slightly better
00:04:32lokkibetter? == smaller
00:04:40preglowand it has other nifty features i like
00:04:42preglowlike hybrid compression
00:04:53lokkithat's nice indeed
00:05:06preglowand flac for rockbox used to be really slow
00:05:07ashridahanyone happen to know why i'm getting "address 0x100183a8 of /home/ashridah/rb/src/cvs/rockbox/firm/apps/codecs/vorbis.elf section .iram is not within region PLUGIN_IRAM" whenever i try to build rockbox these days?
00:05:11preglowwhich made me hate it a bit
00:05:19preglowashridah: target?
00:05:37lokkihmm i use linux exclusively, flac seemed to be easyer to get...
00:05:40preglowashridah: unmodified tree?
00:06:21preglowlokki: yeah, it probably is, i tried to compile wavpack under linux once. wasn't as easy as i'd hoped
00:06:33preglowbut it most certainly is possible
00:06:42lokkishould be imho
00:06:52preglowit is, it's just that the main author doesn't use linux
00:06:56preglowso he can't test it himself
00:07:06lokkiah ok..
00:07:12preglowbut yeah
00:07:19preglowwavpack support in rockbox used to be waaaay better than flac
00:07:29preglowbut then linuxstb found a better decoder, and we optimised it
00:07:33preglownow it's the fastest codec we have
00:07:34 Join matsl [0] (
00:07:42lokkiwell i'm happy with my flacs now...:-)
00:07:48lokkiyes i saw that
00:07:59lokkibut seeking is only partially implemented
00:08:02preglowhe did some tests, and you can listen to flacs for around 12 hours if you don't skip too often
00:08:49lokkiand seeking back to the previous track is also not possible, is this true for all codecs?
00:09:54lokkii mean seeking from track 2 back until you get to track 1
00:10:02 Join einhirn [0] (
00:10:24preglowyeah, i know
00:10:42lokkiso it's not a known bug?
00:10:52preglowi don't know, can't say i remember it
00:10:58preglowbut it's been a while since i hacked on the flac codec too
00:11:52lokkiit just stops at the beginning of the file, no matter how long you press left...
00:12:01preglowahhh, like that
00:12:01lokkiwell ok, no big problem for me
00:12:03preglowthat's a feature
00:12:05preglownot a bug
00:12:18preglowrockbox has always worked like that
00:12:20preglowwhy, i don't know
00:12:24preglowask the elders
00:12:34lokkiok i will
00:12:40*preglow points to amiconn
00:12:52lokkiis he around?
00:12:53preglowprobably no one has complained until now :>
00:12:56preglowdon't know
00:13:09preglowbut yeah, i'd like it if it continued seeking myself
00:13:30lokkihmm it should be a option... like always
00:13:48preglowno, i don't think it should
00:14:13preglowif someone implements seeking across tracks, i think that should be the only behaviour
00:14:34lokkiok... i agree
00:14:58ashridahpreglow: H1xx, unmodified tree (cvs up doesn't find any conflicts)
00:14:58markunMan, flashing your player with the firmware of a different model.. and editing the firmware file with a text editor.. WHY!
00:15:11ashridahonly thing i can think of is that i'm using gcc 4.
00:15:18lokkiit could stop for 1 or 2 secs at the beginning of a track
00:15:20ashridahmight compile 3.4.x up and try again
00:15:47preglowashridah: that's it
00:16:03preglowashridah: no doubt at all, gcc 4 probably makes bigger code, so the iram code doesn't fit anymore
00:16:19preglowashridah: i really wouldn't recommend gcc4, everything i've seen points to it being worse for our target
00:16:46lokkiseeking back across tracks is very cool if you like bass solos :-)
00:17:17ashridahhmm. 3.4.4 is still the latest isn't it?
00:18:12*ashridah leeches a patch
00:18:34*amiconn doesn't get the point of seeking across tracks
00:18:58lokkiamiconn: it's very practical for musicians
00:19:06amiconnIt's indeed a feature that seek stops at the track boundaries, and decelerates before
00:19:32lokkiif you want to transcribe something for example
00:19:33preglowit decelerates?
00:19:35amiconnIf I want to go forward/back through tracks, there is skip
00:20:00amiconnpreglow: Yes, at least it does on archos. If it doesn't on iriver, it's a bug
00:20:08preglowi don't know
00:20:10preglownever tried
00:20:28preglowit does
00:20:36lokkiyes it does
00:20:39amiconnlokki: Shouldn't A-B repeat be more helpful for that?
00:20:46lokkiyes shure
00:20:58lokkiis it going to be implemented?
00:21:15amiconnThere is A-B repat in the archos playback engine, though not yet in the swcodec playback engine afaik
00:21:20*ashridah mutters vile things about his mobile phone carrier
00:21:46lokkiwould be great...
00:22:12amiconnOn the archos platforms, A-B repeat is only enabled for the recorder models, because we couldn't find a way to enable it for player & Ondios - too few buttons...
00:22:36lokkion iriver the a/b button is allready very busy
00:23:16amiconnThe archos recorders still are the targets with the largest number of buttons
00:23:16lokkibut i guess there needs to be done more work then just button assignments on swcodec platforms
00:23:23 Join linuxstb [0] (
00:23:28amiconnlokki: Yes.
00:24:05amiconnFor archos player & Ondio it's just an UI problem. For iriver, the playback engine needs to be extended to support A-B
00:24:06*preglow hugs ubuntu
00:24:28preglowi wonder what we should use the record button for
00:24:34preglowit seems like such a waste to use it for recording
00:24:59lokkii think you should move the settings menu to the record button
00:25:19lokkii mean move a/b button to rec button
00:26:40lokkihow would you have to extend it? start to fill the buffer when a/b is pressed and stop it when it's pressed again, then loop buffer content?
00:27:35amiconnI don't know the details, but afaik on archos A-B works by setting marks during playback
00:27:41amiconnI never tried it myself
00:27:44 Quit einhirn_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:28:37lokkiah ok, would be better that way, no limits
00:29:13lostlogicin the multicodec arch, there are marks to indicate where to read and fill from in the circular buffer, right? A-B would be a matter of putting 2 more marks for between where to play, and the limit of A-B length would be the size of the codec buffer...?
00:29:42preglowaround there, at least
00:30:12preglowwe'll probably want to limit it a bit more, to avoid special treatment of watermarks when using a-b repeat
00:30:34preglowthe marks that decide where to start buffering
00:31:02lokkiah ok...
00:31:46lostlogicis anyone working on coding this?
00:31:59lokkii don't think so
00:32:05 Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat")
00:32:09lostlogicsounds like I have a project for the weekend then :)
00:32:40preglowbut yeahyeah
00:32:43 Join mirak [0] (
00:32:48preglowi've gotta call it a night before it happen involuntarily
00:32:56preglowsee you later
00:33:19lostlogicugh −− the A-B button in WPS already has a function −− and this needs to be a short press.
00:33:34 Quit Nibbler ("life is like a rental car, you fuck it up, and give it back.")
00:33:35lokkiyou can use the record button for now
00:33:39lostlogicwas my think.
00:34:11lokkibut imho the a/b an rec buttons should be changed in the future
00:37:45 Join einhirn_ [0] (
00:40:55 Quit einhirn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:41:10amiconnlostlogic: Again I'm not sure, but iirc A-B on archos is limited to one track, but _not_ by buffer size
00:41:40 Join einhirn [0] (
00:42:01amiconnIt's in fact a special case of 'repeat track'
00:42:26lostlogicamiconn: don't think there's a reason to be so limitted here −− the iRiver firmware supports AB across track boundaries, I think
00:42:49 Join crazymonkey [0] (
00:42:55lokkihaven't used the iriver firmware for years
00:43:07lokkican't remember
00:43:44crazymonkeyhey there, just wondering what stuff you guys think will be added to the iriver h100 project, or is the port virtually completed?
00:43:50lostlogicI'll look at the code this weekend and come up with a design for A-B, probably tonight. Speaking of tonight, it's time to go home from work and start working on rockbox instead. ;)
00:44:14amiconnlostlogic: I can't think of an application for A-B across tracks, but as long as implementing it this way isn't significantly more complex than for just one track, why not
00:44:15lokkiwhat time do you have?
00:44:46crazymonkeytry making the record button do somehting on FM radio!;) and as if that hint want enough, will we be able to record radio?
00:44:47lostlogicamiconn: the only complication added by track boundaries is the codec load on the reverse portion of the loop, imo
00:45:05amiconnBtw, one-track A-B on archos is usually less limiting than the buffer size would be
00:45:23crazymonkeyit would be great to use A - B to que songs
00:45:36lokkicrazymonkey: you are able to record radio
00:46:04crazymonkeyso when your browsing the file tree, tap A - B and the song is added to the last song in the playlist
00:46:05amiconnlostlogic: Hmm, that could be a severe problem
00:46:45crazymonkeyyou can record radio now? lol better update my builds (havnt done so for a while, thought not much had happened)
00:47:42lokkiit was there for a long time, just go to the fm screen, start radio and then go to recording screen and select line-in... there you are
00:47:48amiconncrazymonkey: Context menu->Playlist->Insert last
00:48:01 Quit gibbs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:48:31crazymonkeybut that requires an HD spinup, is there anyway to aviod that? its just REALLY slow, just like when you arte trying to make a playlist.
00:48:39amiconnlokki: There's still something missing. On archos you can record from within th FM screen. No need to select input or adjust level.
00:48:59crazymonkeyI once spent an hour adding songs only to find that i was doing it too fast, and so i had a plyalist of 3 songs lol
00:49:24lostlogicamiconn: yeah −− the start mark for a-b would have to also remember the beginning of the track that it belongs to to get the codec info or some such
00:49:30lostlogicsimilar to a bookmark
00:49:42crazymonkeyyes, you should be able to be on the FM screen, then "oh, i really like the song thats coming up!" and "click" the record button to instantly record
00:49:58lokkihmm i like to adjust the level
00:50:06crazymonkeyplus youd have to agree that changing to the recording screen is hardly a good user interface is it?
00:50:23amiconncrazymonkey: Adding a song to the playlist requires a spinup to read the metadata. This has nothing to do with the way to invoke the function
00:50:49crazymonkeywould it be possible to include metadat in the dir cache?
00:50:54lokkiit's not completed as amiconn said
00:51:01lokkibut at least it works
00:51:21lokkiin the iriver firmware it was removed
00:52:00 Join Mmmm [0] (
00:52:04crazymonkeyit would be loaded into ram, and so adding songs to playlists wouldnt require an HD spinup, am i correct? or would this use up too much of the 32MB cache?
00:52:22amiconnlostlogic: A tricky constellation would be if the start mark would be so far into the track containing it that the data size between track start and A marker is larger than the buffer, and the next track needs a different codec
00:52:49lostlogicamiconn: how would a bookmark at that location work?
00:52:49lokkiamiconn :-)
00:53:02lostlogicDoes a bookmark save the codec info?
00:53:15Mmmmcrazymonkey: have you given Rubbergloves patch a go?
00:53:39 Join saratoga [0] (
00:53:52saratogaI've been wondering about the Ipod's CPU
00:54:02 Quit BHSPitMonkey (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:54:10saratogaas I understand it has no D-cache and 96k of on board IRAM?
00:54:13saratogais this right?
00:54:16amiconnlostlogic: I don't know how this is handled in the swcodec playback engine.
00:54:33lostlogicamiconn: another thing I'll have to lookup
00:54:43lostlogicanywho, I'm off for 30-40m.
00:55:07amiconnIn fact, while I would want a unified playback engine, I'm afraid to actually do it
00:56:07crazymonkeyi mean directory cache, where on boot rockbox reads the file tree and saves a file, so on subsequent staretups it loads the directory cache and the disk does not spinup on entering every directory. I was simply extending this to databasing the metadata to allow instantaneous adding of songs to playlists without the HD spinning up (and resulting battery loss and time wasting)
00:56:21amiconnThe hwcodec playback engine is complex. The swcodec playback engine looks like the invention of complexity.
00:56:28 Join ataxy [0] (
00:57:02crazymonkeythanks for the point towards the patch Mmmm, i would give it a go if i knew how to stick the patch in as it were :~
00:57:04amiconnI don't want to touch it if I don't have to
00:57:50crazymonkeyis it a copy and paste jobby?
00:57:57lokkiamiconn: did you write the mandelbrot plugin?
00:58:22amiconnNo, but I heavily extended and modified it
00:58:31lokkii really like it
00:58:44crazymonkeyah well your obviosuly not interested in a noob users opinions, but seriously, the metadata thing would be great for playlists.
00:58:55Mmmmcrazymonkey: Here's another point then... :)
00:59:05crazymonkeyand im sure others would agree?
00:59:20linuxstbsaratoga: The ipod has two CPU cores, each with an 8KB unified cache. The older ipods have 96KB of IRAM, the Nano and Video have 128KB.
00:59:29lokkihmm, would it be complex to add a julia set?
00:59:40amiconncrazymonkey: Slasheri is working on tagcache, which does cache metadata, and will eventually replace the current tag database
00:59:40crazymonkeythanks Mmmm, ill give it a whirl.
00:59:54*amiconn doesn't use dircache
01:00:14 Quit einhirn_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:00:15lokkior even choose a user defined formula at startup...
01:01:58crazymonkeyhehe well ive gone way beyond politness so what the hell, when is rockbox video coming to the H100S!
01:02:32crazymonkeyand will there be a taser attachment trough the line out?
01:03:00 Quit ender` (" It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both incisive and probing when every twelve minutes one is inter)
01:03:21 Quit crazymonkey ("CGI:IRC")
01:03:46 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:03:57 Quit darkless (Client Quit)
01:04:02 Join darkless [0] (
01:04:09muesli__where do i get latest flac version?
01:04:18 Quit darkless (Connection reset by peer)
01:04:38 Join BHSPitMonkey [0] (
01:05:01 Quit Moos ("Happy new year @ all")
01:08:22muesli__-5 -T "Artist=%a" -T "Title=%t" -T "Album=%g" -T "Date=%y" -T "Tracknumber=%n" -T "Genre=%m" %s -o %d
01:08:28muesli__is that ok for settings?
01:08:33 Join ze [0] (
01:08:38lokkiamiconn: where in the code of mandelbrot.c is the actual mandelbrot formula?
01:08:53linuxstbI always use -8 with flac
01:09:34lokkilinuxstb: thanks for optimizing the flac codec!!!
01:10:22linuxstbYou're welcome :) preglow worked on it as well.
01:10:47linuxstbIt's still lacking full seeking though.
01:11:21lokkihe said it was you... i'm listening to flacs exclusively now on my h-120
01:11:45lokkiyeah, but with seekpoints it's no big deal for me
01:12:21Mmmmmuesli:God knows...Mine look like this and work nicely: -8 -o %2 -T "artist=%a" -T "title=%t" -T "album=%b" -T "date=%y" -T "tracknumber=%tn" -T "genre=%g" -
01:12:52muesli__i am using eac btw
01:13:48MmmmWhen I put the settings in I knew what they did... but that was ages ago! :D
01:14:37 Quit Kohlrabi (Nick collision from services.)
01:14:42 Join Kohlrabi [0] (
01:16:48 Quit matsl (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:17:19markunabout the new gigabeat on dapreview: "All right from what I read from previous players using Windows PMC software is that you can drag and drop content to the player. So right now I want this player badly!!!!"
01:18:28markunI thought there were many other players with drag and drop support.
01:18:35markunrockbox players for example
01:19:49lokkiyeah that's way i didn't understand your phrase... pretty much every player supports drag and drop so it's nothing special
01:20:49markunMaybe if you only know the ipod drag and drop sounds like a revolution :)
01:22:36lokki:-) but even ipods would have drag and drop support with rockbox
01:28:09muesli__n8 m8s
01:28:17 Quit muesli__ ("ich will Khe!!!")
01:32:20lokkigood night all!!
01:32:23 Join Mad_Big_Sausage [0] (
01:32:26 Quit lokki ("CGI:IRC")
01:33:19 Quit Mad_Big_Sausage (Client Quit)
01:37:38 Join darkless [0] (
01:37:57 Quit darkless (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:46:05 Quit Pi ("bye")
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01:48:34mirakmarkun: only thing missing is a media player that support syncing with UMS players
01:51:38 Quit Mmmm ()
01:51:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:53:46markunmight be useful for some people
01:53:52markunHow's libmpeg2?
01:55:52lostlogichwcodec AB repeat is very strictly one-song-only, as it was designed for devices where not more than a song would generally be in buffer. frustrating.
01:59:26mirakmarkun: I am statifying it
01:59:31mirakI am still on pc
02:00:21 Join darkless [0] (
02:00:29 Quit darkless (Client Quit)
02:01:29mirakI have an error at line 10
02:01:45mirakrb_api.h:10: error: parse error before "size"
02:01:50markunI'm now also thinking mpeg2 might be better than divx. Only the increase in fps will again increase the bitrate
02:02:13mirakis that normal I should include the types for the protoype ?
02:02:24mirakmarkun: not that much
02:02:43mirakI encoded a mpeg2 stream in 220*176 it's really ok
02:02:52mirakat 300 kbit
02:02:54markunWhich fps?
02:03:31mirakI realise that the xvid used by iriver firmware are 10fps and 300kbit
02:03:41mirakI tried down to 50
02:03:47mirakit's still watchable I think
02:03:51mirakI tried very low bitrates
02:04:08markundo they decode faster?
02:04:13mirakI did not tried with the plugin
02:04:44markunCan you try?
02:05:14miraknot tonight at least
02:05:26mirakI don't want to waste more time on xvid
02:05:33mirakat least until I have done mpeg2
02:05:33markunok :)
02:05:52mirakso probably not tomorrow as well
02:06:21 Join darkless [0] (
02:09:24markunmirak: any idea how we should deal with sound?
02:09:39mirakuncompressed wav ?
02:11:02 Join Sixtiz [0] (
02:12:20linuxstbSound will be a problem - you will have both the audio and video codecs fighting for IRAM. Without IRAM, the audio codecs won't work in realtime.
02:12:54mirakthat's why I talk about uncompressed wav
02:13:00mirakthe battery will die
02:13:40mirakI am not sure how long it's possible to record with wav
02:14:00mirakit could be a good indicator about battery esperance of life
02:14:39mirakI know that when I plug the usb cable and forgot to plug the battery and let it like that, the battery goes to zero in about an hour
02:16:37 Join Sucka [0] (
02:18:06markunDoes it take a lot of time to copy the code in and out of IRAM?
02:20:51mirakit's probably worth if the code is called a lot of time, but as said preglow there is a cpu cache for often called code
02:21:05mirakfrom what I have tested I gained a bit by putting some code into iram
02:21:22mirakI gained by putting structures
02:21:34mirakbut what I gained was not much I found
02:22:56markunMy mistake.. does it take long to swap DATA in and out of IRAM? (to switch between video and audio decoding)
02:24:21mirakI think it could work
02:24:31mirakin fact it could be a kernel feature don't you think ?
02:25:17mirakmarkun: it would be interesting if we decode 1 second of frames, then 1 second of mp3 etcetera
02:25:34mirak1 second of frame might be huge in memort though
02:26:24markunWe will worry about audio later :)
02:27:57markun1.8MB for 25 frames
02:29:02linuxstbmirak: Have you thought about MPEG-1 video at all?
02:29:13markunMaybe if we can do a LCD update from a different location then the normal LCD buffer..
02:30:04linuxstbmarkun: That's what the lcd_blit function does. It's not implemented for the color lcds yet, but should be trivial, and would seem a good idea for video.
02:30:36 Quit DangerousDan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:31:03miraklinuxstb: I think libmpeg2 can decode it, I am not sure though
02:31:35linuxstbCould be interesting to test if mpeg1 decodes faster than mpeg2 for a similar size/quality file.
02:32:19markun"ibmpeg2 is a free library for decoding mpeg-2 and mpeg-1 video streams."
02:34:22lostlogicwoah, woah! if I'm playing a song from buffer, and the passed buffer is still in RAM, and I hit skip back to go to the beinning of the song, it dumps the entire codec buffer!?!??!
02:34:26*lostlogic shoots self
02:36:29markunlostlogic: fix it :)
02:36:33lostlogicseeking back to the beginning of the song does not cause a disk read though
02:36:46*lostlogic mutters instead of shooting himself and goes to see if that can be fixed
02:38:36markunwhich is our most efficient lossy decoder? ac3?
02:40:57linuxstbI don't know how fast libmad has become, but I would guess ac3 is still the best. I've never tried lossy wavpack though.
02:41:43 Join webguest51 [0] (
02:42:40 Quit ataxy ("Chatzilla [Firefox 1.5/2005111116]")
02:43:54 Quit webguest51 (Client Quit)
02:44:03 Join webguest51 [0] (
02:45:35webguest51Hello, I am new here
02:46:01 Quit actionshrimp (Connection timed out)
02:46:13webguest51I have a few questions, Hi monkey
02:46:52webguest51I came here from the mistic rivier site
02:47:08markunwow, ac3 is really very efficient
02:47:29DreamTactix291i don't think it is
02:47:33DreamTactix291you mean decoding
02:47:36DreamTactix291well yeah
02:47:41DreamTactix291it's less complex than mp3 reallly
02:47:56webguest51basically I was wondering what negative things could people do if they wanted to, through altering the rockbox code or making plugins
02:48:33webguest51I ask cause I am paranoid and would rather know and install than not know
02:48:44mirakkill your dog
02:49:15webguest51For example could your player send information over the web when connected to a internet enabled computer
02:49:20webguest51that kind of thing
02:49:50mirak*(((void **)align_buf) - 1) = buf;
02:50:02mirakthis line is doing a segfault
02:52:46 Quit webguest51 ("CGI:IRC")
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02:54:49 Part webguest51
03:02:06 Join DJDD__ [0] (
03:03:25 Quit merbanan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:04:20*lostlogic gives up on cross-track A-B mode for now (wouldn't fit into the current arch easily)
03:06:48 Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat")
03:12:15lostlogichas anyone actually _tried_ just enabling the existing AB repeat code on swcodec machines? it doesn't look unworkable at all.
03:18:23 Quit DJDD_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:25:50linuxstblostlogic: Probably not. Go ahead and see what happens.
03:26:10lostlogicam working on it −− the audio_event_handler stuff appears to be the missing link.
03:38:04 Join saratoga [0] (
03:38:17saratogais there documentation for the AC3 format somewhere?
03:38:24saratogaif its simplier then MP3 that could be fun to look at
03:43:23saratoganevermind, atsc has a great spec sheet on google
03:43:30DreamTactix291from what they've said at
03:43:38DreamTactix291AC3 is about as complex to decode as MP2
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03:43:44stevenmHello guys.
03:43:51DreamTactix291now more than that i can't say
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03:45:05stevenmAbout, how many 8bit microprocessors chained together, with 368 registers and 1 working register, 8KB of ROM each, and no multiply instruction, and say 30MB of RAM, would it take to get MP3 playback?
03:45:53DreamTactix291i have no idea
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03:47:15saratogastevenm: what are you asking?
03:49:11stevenmsaratoga, i just want a ballpark estimate
03:49:29stevenmits a very stupid chip
03:49:32saratogawhat microcontrollers? how would you chain them together, etc
03:49:55stevenmsaratoga, PIC 16F877. Chained together... I dont know, using a BUS of some sort.
03:50:09stevenmpossibly splitting the decoding task over several chips.. each does a certain part
03:50:26stevenmI am just wondering, how many of them it would take to get realtime MP3 decoding
03:50:36lostlogichmmmmmmmmmmm setting of marks seems to work, but it doesn't catch as it hits the B mark on the way forward
03:51:30stevenmit doesnt look like i'll be getting that H340 unfortunately. someone's going to have to optimize MIDI in ASM instead of me.. when the time comes for that and people can do it
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03:52:05stevenmbut I need an MP3 player. and all the ones on the market are either too expensive or very very ugly. so i figure, make a PIC cluster to play music
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03:53:32saratogathinking about it I have no real idea
03:53:41saratogai guess you could split the MDCT a few ways
03:53:53saratogaeach one do a part
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03:55:01saratogai don't know how well that would work
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03:59:03lostlogicanyone know how ab repeat mode works on archos? Is it a mode you have to have enabled to use it?
04:03:02lostlogicnvm, it is... bah, makes turning it into a single button function rougher.
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04:27:04Jungti1234i'm in iriverzone
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05:42:05webguest20I've been reading about the news of the iAudio X5 development
05:42:31webguest20who is working on that right now? is it linus too?
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06:09:52lostlogicgorp −− the ab markers show up in wrong places.
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06:51:58lostlogicwas drawing them for remote and main screen it looks like.
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07:16:31lostlogicab repeat on swcodec patch:
07:16:34*lostlogic sleeps
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10:12:35markunmorning amiconn
10:13:06markunwhat are you working on these days?
10:13:38amiconnNot much :/
10:13:55amiconnI am still half through the .lang cleanup
10:14:52*amiconn isn't very motivated these days
10:15:29markunI'm not very motivated to study, and rockbox is such a nice distraction..
10:17:16markunI can imagine that cleaning up the lang files is not the most fun thing to do, nice that you are doing it anyway
10:32:00amiconnI am annoyed by the route rockbox development currently takes
10:32:12amiconnOf course every dev is free to work on what he wants,
10:33:32amiconnbut if development continues this way, in some months we will have a bloated rockbox with a ton of features that feels very different on the different targets,
10:34:08amiconnand since most of the features will be unfinished, we still won't have a release version for non-archos
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10:36:47markunThen we should maybe have a feature freeze some day and only work on the things that need to be finished.
10:37:02markununtil the release of course
10:42:33amiconnMulti-screen support: unfinished (recording screen, bookmark selector, ...). Voice UI on iriver: unfinished (Glitches, not working in pause mode, no clip pre-emption). Recording: unfinished (prerecording, different sample frequencies, S/PDIF input)
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10:43:16amiconnMulti-codec arch: unfinished (AAC needs optimisation)
10:44:40amiconnUnicode support: unfinished (text viewer)
10:46:27Jungti1234Text viewer is problem of font buffer.
10:46:41Jungti1234Rockbox problem.
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10:49:48markunJungti1234: also the viewer needs to fixed
10:50:44amiconnThe viewer should support other encodings in addition to utf-8
10:51:09markunamiconn: phaedrus was working on it before he didn't have time for rockbox anymore.
10:51:23markunI have his viewer here, but it lacks a menu to select the encoding
10:51:32amiconnOh, and what would be really helpful is to add a settings menu to the viewer that replaces the ton of hard-to-remember button combos
10:51:48markunyes, we should add a menu anyway
10:51:57amiconn(a thing that is on my todo list for a looong time)
10:52:29amiconnOn th eplayer, some viewer button combos involve 3 buttons (!)
10:55:18markunI've added a menu for the encodings, will add the other functions as well
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11:14:22Jungti1234And it must support unicode input.
11:14:59Jungti1234OGG Q10 is uneasy yet.
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11:15:33Jungti1234When do various work.(In H300)
11:17:02Jungti1234-> When at the same time do many works.
11:18:22_FireFly_Jungti1234: remember the h300 is mainly a dap(with video-playback) and not an pda oder a PC
11:18:50Jungti1234I know.
11:19:27Jungti1234Is that I want it wrong thing?
11:23:53mozettii think you'll be disapointed, if that's what you want
11:24:28mozettithe main reason PDAs are useable is the touch screen - if you have to just a joystick/button press for everything, then it's not as convenient to use
11:24:47mozetti*have to use a joystick/button
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11:27:37VagueRantHey all, how's it going?
11:29:06VagueRantI was just curious as to whether anyone's looked into streamed audio formats in Rockbox. Being streamed, they take very low processing power.
11:29:53VagueRantThat said, the only players I know are plugins for Winamp and foobar2000.
11:30:08VagueRantSo I don't know how useful their source would be.
11:30:25mozettihow would you receive the stream?
11:31:16VagueRantJust from file.
11:31:29VagueRantThey're rather large, of course.
11:31:33_FireFly_if you would stream from the hd then the reduced cpu-usage might be negligible to the power consumption of the hd spinning
11:31:44VagueRantGood point.
11:31:53mozettii'd imagine it might even take more power
11:31:55 Quit vger_ ("[BX] Reserve your copy of gtkBitchX-1.1-final for the Commodore 64 today!")
11:34:42_FireFly_and the player is then less shock resistend then buffering as much of the file as possible in ram
11:35:58VagueRantHmm. How about on the Nano?
11:36:09VagueRantI realize I'm getting way ahead of myself, but it's plausible, right?
11:36:18*amiconn wonders what VagueRant means with 'streamed audio formats'
11:36:32amiconnMost linear formats can be streamed
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11:37:14amiconnThis has nothing to do with CPU usage. Compressed audio needs to be uncompressed for playback, irrespectively of the source
11:37:36_FireFly_only the disk have to spin longer
11:37:45_FireFly_when streaming the file content
11:38:02VagueRantWell I mean uncompressed audio.
11:38:23VagueRantAs is used in video games specifically for its low CPU usage.
11:39:28amiconnWAV is uncompressed audio
11:39:40amiconnRockbox plays wav
11:39:46VagueRantIndeed it does.
11:39:53VagueRantWhat's the battery life like for WAVs?
11:40:35amiconnI dunno. Nobody measured it yet afaik
11:41:22amiconnI'd expect less runtime with wav than with flac
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11:47:18mozettiamiconn - but, b/c wav is a larger file, the buffer fills up faster, and the hdd has to spin more to re-fill the buffer
11:49:04_FireFly_b/c ?
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11:55:36Jungti1234H300 seems to be other bug.
11:56:47Jungti1234I was playing a game as I'm interesting by plugin.
11:57:12Jungti1234By the way, returned to menu suddenly.
11:57:29Jungti1234Game ended automatically.
11:57:54Jungti1234I experience often such event.
11:58:37mozettiJungti1234−−was it tetrox? cuz i always accidentally hit the 'Stop' button and end my game :(
11:58:49Jungti1234In all games.
11:59:39Jungti1234I didn't press 'Stop' button absolutely.
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12:10:50VagueRantIs this regular games or under RockBoy?
12:27:36Mongeyplugins.. i think
12:27:57Mongeycan someone help ......
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12:50:08lokkijust tried lostlogics ab_repeat patch on swcodec platforms, it works very well
12:50:55lokkiexcept for flac files...because of the poor seeking support
12:51:31lokkithe start-point hops always hops to the nearest seekpoint, seems logical
12:51:48lokkihups one hops too much
12:53:16FeCuhello everybody
12:53:52FeCui have a problem booting rockbox, i installed the bootloader and the rockbox files but it doens't load rockbox
12:54:19FeCuit only shows Rockbox boot loader version 3 Batt : 4.00V
12:54:29FeCuit's an iriver h340 US
12:54:41FeCuon 1.29K
12:54:48Jungti1234K? -_-;
12:54:57Mongeyu patched the firmware?
12:55:15Mongeyand upgraded it
12:55:33FeCuotherwise it wouldn't show the bootloader i think
12:55:34Mongeyur sure that all the files are there
12:55:40Jungti1234I will come again
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12:56:10FeCu.rockbox folder and a rockbox.iriver file
12:56:33FeCui already tried several releases but doenset work
12:56:40Mongeytry that again
12:57:45FeCuok thanks will try it immediately
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12:59:25mirakMongey: what's that ?
12:59:39Mongeyits a optimised Rb version
12:59:47MongeyMR style
13:00:03Mongeywith the colour changer and remote support
13:00:28FeCuThe optimized version doesn't work also
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13:01:02Mongeydowload a fresh version of the iriver f/w and repatch it
13:03:44FeCusuggestions of which firmware ?
13:03:56FeCuK, J or EU 1.28 or 1.29
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13:09:00FeCustill no working rockbox
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13:16:10aliaskFeCu: Can you boot the original firmware?
13:17:05FeCurecord and play works
13:17:21aliaskTry renaming the folder .rockbox to something else and try again.
13:20:46FeCustill the same story
13:22:53aliaskSounds like the rockbox bootloader isn't finding the files then. Do you have a rockbox.iriver file in your root directory?
13:24:36aliaskWell I'm out of ideas, unless you are using some strange encoding to write the filenames.
13:24:44_FireFly_FeCu: do you have maybe an extended partition on th device
13:25:03FeCudon't think so
13:26:03FeCui'll make it a primary
13:26:30FeCufirst backup
13:31:45_FireFly_ok because the rb-bootloader doesn't support extended/logical-partitions
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14:16:00b0brlostlogic: hi, is it you, who's working on A-B repeat function?
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14:22:05FeCumy problem is solved now, changed extended logical to primary partition and it works now, thanks for helping me
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14:30:19peturI'm a bit worried about the discussion last night about adding A-B repeat behind the A-B button on H3xx
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14:30:54peturIMHO, this is a function used sooo seldom that it doesn't merrit getting its own button
14:31:19peturwho invented that useless function anyway?
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14:32:26lokkipetur: this won't make into cvs just like this
14:32:36peturashridah: around?
14:32:47lokkibut there is a patch for people who like it
14:32:58peturlokki: I know, that's why I said this
14:33:15lokkiso what are you worrying about?
14:33:25peturashridah: I had the same compile problem, it's gcc 4.x that causes it.
14:33:35petur3.4.5 works perfectly
14:33:38ashridahi sorted it with gcc-3.4.5
14:34:26lokkifor me it's a feature that i use very often... depends on the user
14:34:46peturmay I ask what you use it for?
14:35:11lokkifor transcribing...
14:35:23*saa[b_r]ider thinks A-B could be amusing to beer drinkers
14:35:46peturok, for dictaphone use it could be usefull
14:35:52lokkithat too
14:36:11peturmaybe we should define operating modes that each can have a key mapping
14:36:30peturlike: recording, dictaphone, ...
14:36:59lokkimaybe we should even let the user choose all keys freely? depending on a config file :-)
14:37:11peturthat would be a support nightmare
14:37:17lokkiyes indeed
14:37:47*petur is dreaming too much of future things i.s.o. implementing what he's busy with ;)
14:37:53lokkii personally don't mind if i have no one button recording screen popup feature
14:38:20peturit's a pitty the rec button isn't used at all atm
14:38:29lokkithat's why i think the menu should be there
14:38:44mirakpetur: maybe a gui would be simple
14:39:00mirakI mean in theory we could live with just a button plus the directions
14:39:33peturI'm not sure GUI's make it simpler
14:39:51mirakoh my god there is dust on my keyboard !
14:39:54peturI can give a big list of SW with nice GUI that isn't usable at all
14:40:05lokkimaybe we could implement a new "wps" by making a plugin that handles playback
14:40:30mirakpetur: like what ?
14:40:34lokkiso instead of wps, the plugin is loaded
14:40:55mirakIt's easier to know where to click on the screen instead of memorising what a key do on a particular screen
14:41:20lokkii think the plugins would allow album art and display of song info for example
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14:41:35lokkiand the wps wouldn't need to be touched
14:41:36Jungti1234 Դ !!
14:41:54saa[b_r]idercould make it a whole lot easier
14:42:49saa[b_r]iderbut could it be set to run as default instead of the WPS (if wanted of course)
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14:46:11lokkii don't know, but these are only plans for the future, so nothing to worry about now
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14:46:43lokkiwhere are the button assignments defined?
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14:53:27lokkinevermind found it
14:56:39b0brbut i use A-B function really often - its absence on rockbox pushes me to boot to original firmware :(
14:57:03lokkiyou can apply a patch now and it works really great!
14:57:20b0brbut maybe it's not good idea to map it on A-B button..
14:58:06b0brpetur: thank for the development of recording, i have one more suggestion:
14:58:34lokkiit's mapped to the record button currently
14:59:43b0brprerecording is great feature but it could be good to have one button to start recording with it and one without - i think play button is not mapped in recording screen..
15:00:28peturyou mean a way to start recording without looking at the prerecording setting?
15:00:50b0brlokki: i use record button to turn on my display..
15:01:42lokkib0br: h3x0 ?
15:02:20peturH1xx or H3xx I think
15:02:21b0brno, i mean if you set prerecording to 30s, record button strarts recording with 30s prerecording and play button starts recording without prerecording
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15:02:44peturheh, that's what I wrote ;)
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15:03:02SlasheriHmm, maybe play+rec but not single play button only..
15:03:27b0brh340 :) rockbox and its recording capabalities was reason why i purchased it 2 weeks ago
15:03:35lostlogicb0br: yes
15:03:54lokkione button only to turn backlight on, waste?
15:04:09b0brslasheri: hmm sounds good
15:04:12peturflip the hold switch instead...
15:04:40lostlogichas anyone tried the AB repeat patch I posted to patch tracker yet?
15:04:47lokkiyes i did
15:04:52lokkithanks a lot
15:04:55lokkiit's great
15:05:02lokkiexcept for flac files
15:05:10lostlogicwhat happens on flac?
15:05:12lokkibut thats a limitation in the codec
15:05:13b0brpetur, lokki: you're right hold would be probably better..
15:05:19lostlogicnot seekable?
15:05:24lokkipoor seek support
15:05:30lokkionly with seekpoints
15:05:36lostlogicah, nod
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15:06:19lokkithe first mark (a) just goes to the nearest seekpoint, but the second mark (b) is on the right place
15:06:40lostlogicthat makes sense, unfortunate.
15:06:43lokkiso i guess you calculate the second with the first one?
15:07:29lostlogicthey are both just millisecond elapsed markers from the beginning of the file, so the AB code tells the codec to seek to that elapsed point
15:08:02lokkiah, and stopping works always... unlike seeking
15:09:10lostlogiclokki: right, it can tell that it's reached the B mark, and just pauses the playback, asks to seek back to A and resumes, and the codec apparently treats any seek request as a request for the nearest seek point
15:09:39lokkilostlogic: so your next project is real seek support with flac files :-)
15:10:15lostlogicnever used flac, so that's not likely ;)
15:10:29lokkijust kidding
15:11:30Xerion_is there any way to log played songs yet?
15:11:33lostlogicit's too bad that A-B across track boundaries wouldn't have fit neatly into the arch, but I guess that wouldn't be a feature in high demand.
15:11:43lokkilostlogic: how can i swap the a/b button and the rec button? simply changing the hex values in button.h does not work...
15:12:11lokkino, i think a-b like it is now is good enough for 99%
15:13:23lostlogiclokki: it'd be in gwps.h
15:14:02petur_don't_ switch the hex values in button.h
15:14:36lostlogiclokki: at least to change access to the menu and the ab function −− but then the AB button would still have it's same function everywhere other than WPS, so you'd have to change it in several other files as well to completely switch them up
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15:15:35lokkino way to switch them completely? i mean within one file?
15:15:46lostlogicpraps there is, but I don't know it
15:15:53lokkipetur: why?
15:16:08b0bri think, it could be good to reconsider controls in h300 rockbox - it's little bit confusing right now..
15:17:03peturlokki: you would switch the buttons everywhere
15:18:24lokkithat's what i want
15:18:33lokkibut it didn't work
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15:19:27peturlokki: those are hardware related defines...
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15:20:20lostlogicthose #defined hex values are arbitrary actually.
15:21:17peturI must admit I don't know that part of RB (yet)
15:21:23lostlogicif you really want to change it, you have to switch them in button.c lines 723 and 725 actually.
15:21:52b0brpetur: what are you working on right now? is there any chance of implementing this feature: in future? or at least playback while recorging?
15:22:09lostlogicbut then the AB button will be needed to do actual recording things so that doesn't sound ideal at all.
15:22:17lokkithanks lostlogic, i'll give it a try
15:22:47lokkiyeah, but maybe i change it back there, instead of changing it everywhere else
15:23:09lostlogiclokki: it doesn't exist that many places −− only 5 or 8 header files
15:24:05peturb0br: as Linus wrote in a related post: we can't play and record at the same time, it's a hardware restriction.
15:24:20lokkilostlogic: ok then i will do it this way so it's gwps.h for first then
15:24:58peturI'm busy getting the recording gain names right (also in the code) and move the decimator setting into the recording screen for otf changing
15:25:03lostlogiclokki: sounds like the best approach... I'm sure before release they'll do a big remap on HXXX buttons just to confuse all of us early adopters :-P
15:25:05b0brpetur: oh no, that's bad news :((((
15:25:39peturit is
15:26:08lostlogicis it because of the lack of additional DMA channels on the coldfire 5249?
15:26:16webguest86Hi, i'm new, this is my first install of rockbox on a ihp-120, build 20060107, after reboot the screen reads: Rockbox boot loader version 6 batt: 4.23. Nothings hapens, other builds have the same problem. I read almost all the documentation on
15:26:54lostlogicwebguest86: sounds like you installed bootloader only but didn't copy teh actual rockbox firmware over to the hard disk.
15:27:13peturlostlogic: it's because recording and playback uses the same bus I think, so you're either playing or recording.
15:27:43lostlogicah −− does that also eliminate the possibility of mixing line-in with pcm out for push-to-hear mode?
15:28:05lostlogicbecause that's handled separately on the audio chip?
15:28:32peturyes, the audio chip can do the mixing...
15:28:38lostlogicgotcha, thanks
15:28:54peturmust be investigated more tho...
15:29:27peturmaybe after I got this stuff done. But I don't have much time atm :(
15:29:45webguest86Lostlogic: You mean rockbox.irirver? I coppied it tho the ihp120.
15:29:55Matzewell and i think even if it would be possible to get audiodata into the cpu while playing the power wouldn't be sufficent to encode and decode mp3 at the same time
15:30:26Matzei mean the cpu power, not the battery power :)
15:30:28lostlogicwebguest86: rockbox.iriver and the whole .rockbox folder? (easiest to just extract a zip build to the player)
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15:30:50peturwe're not encoding anything, just moving around and writing to file
15:30:59lostlogicMatze: no, if what linus said is right, there is only one RW bus between the audio chip and the CPU
15:31:05lostlogicso there is no way to transfer data both ways at the same time
15:31:18peturthat's what I think too
15:31:21webguest86lostlogic: Yes, I extracted it to the player.
15:31:22Matzeyes but i said EVEN if there would be a way
15:31:36Matzebut okay when not encoding to mp3 cpu would be enough...
15:31:49Matzebut your argument beats all :) or linus argument
15:31:54peturgot to go... bye
15:32:07 Quit petur ("here today, gone tomorrow")
15:33:52lostlogicwebguest86: hmmmmmm I assume you got the H120 version and not the H100 version?
15:34:23webguest86Yes its the H120
15:35:33lostlogicThe only time I've seen similar behaviour was when I build the firmware with a bad compiler, but you aren't compiling it yourself so I'm out of ideas for the moment.
15:37:01webguest86I used Fwpatchernu
15:37:36lostlogicwebguest86: well the bootloader itself seems alright which is what the fwpatcher patches
15:37:57_FireFly_webguest86: please check if the partition on the player is a primary-partition
15:38:15_FireFly_and not a logical-partition
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15:41:18lostlogicI think sort files numeric would be a useful option −− look for numbers at the start of filenames, sort by those if they exist, fall over to alpha
15:42:55webguest86It is a logical-partition, i'm going to change it in a primary an let you know.
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15:43:10lostlogic_FireFly_: impressive diagnosis *bows*
15:43:11_FireFly_webguest86: please backup our files before doing this
15:43:36_FireFly_lostlogic: another guy haf the same problem this day :)
15:44:05 Quit Moos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:45:19_FireFly_lostlogic: it was FeCu
15:45:59FeCuyes it worked
15:46:09FeCuchange extended logical to primary
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15:49:18 Quit FeCu ("Chatzilla [Firefox 1.5/2005111116]")
15:52:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:53:24lostlogichmm −− type sorting falls through to alpha, numeric should too −− use a goto, or let type sorting fall through twice?
15:54:41lostlogicI'm trying to add numeric sorting −− sort ordering is handled by falling through a switch statement −− the type sort falls into the alpha currently −− I want numeric to fall through to alpha.
15:55:01lostlogicif I put it between type and alpha then type will fall through to numeric ahead of alpha, or I could use a goto to avoid that.
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15:58:51webguest86Thanks Firefly, lostlogic and FeCu, i'm now using Rockbox!
15:59:24preglowand there was much rejoicing
16:00:14linuxstbHello preglow.
16:00:48linuxstbHave you tried the USB detection on your Nano?
16:01:02 Quit webguest86 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
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16:03:24lokkilostlogic: ok i switched it and it works like a charm...
16:03:31lokkii really like it better this way
16:03:43lostlogicgah, I don't see any way to use sort_alpha desc but it's in the switch statement for sort
16:03:46lostlogiclokki: cool
16:05:07preglowlinuxstb: nope, i can try it later
16:05:27preglowand it suddenly occurs to me i can update my bootloader now i'm in linux
16:06:01lokkipreglow: linux rocks
16:08:52preglowyes, given the right distro
16:10:16lokkiyou were hugging ubuntu last night
16:10:25lokkiso i guess that's your choice
16:11:24 Quit DocterD ("Leaving")
16:12:08preglowyeah, it seems like it
16:12:25preglownice to see a debian based distro that doesn't suck rod
16:12:53preglowdebian itself requires a bit too much setup to work properly for a desktop for my tastes
16:12:57preglowon the server it does nicely
16:13:01lokkiwell i use gentoo... never made it into debian... but maybe i'll try ubuntu
16:13:06preglowi used gentoo on my server
16:13:10preglowwas quite satisfied with it
16:13:17lokkiyes it's fast
16:13:20preglowbut i don't want to compile too much on desktop
16:13:29lokkiand i use it for live audio...
16:13:42preglowi use this box for audio coding
16:13:55preglowi tried using demudi a couple of days, but god damn, that sucked
16:14:14lokkithe only halfway decent audio distro i know of is planetccrma
16:14:30lokkibased on redhat
16:14:35preglowyeah, haven't tried that
16:14:40preglowi prefer deb based distros
16:14:52preglowit's not too hard to make any linux distro work with audio
16:15:04preglowlow latency being the tricky part, but not too hard that either
16:15:16lokkidepends on your setup
16:15:32lokkilow latency on a laptop is quite tricky
16:15:32preglowbut anywho, the rme digiface i use worked without a hitch
16:15:49lokkihe, i use a rme dsp multiface
16:15:58preglowalsa seems to have great support for it
16:16:12preglowi just needed to compile hdspconf and hdspmixer by hand, but i'm used to stuff like that
16:16:20lokkiyes it does...
16:16:37preglowi just wish the hdspmixer was a bit more updated
16:16:39preglowi like the matrix view
16:16:51preglowwhich isn't here
16:16:51lokkii don't use hdspmixer that often
16:16:52preglowJungti1234: bye
16:16:52Jungti1234have a nice day
16:16:58preglowi will, thanks
16:17:04 Quit Jungti1234 ()
16:17:22preglowwhen you listen to as much roger whittaker as i have today, it's very hard not to have a good day
16:17:42lokkii mainly work with jack, which is THE reason to switch to linux
16:17:56preglowi work with jack as well
16:18:03preglowcoding for it, that is
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16:18:17preglowambisonics decoder/encoder
16:18:29preglowacademic style surround sound, hehe
16:18:29 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC")
16:18:36lokkii wish i could program in c...
16:18:45preglownever too late to learn
16:18:52preglowbut i guess you've heard that before :P
16:19:17lokkithe only thing i did was programming a midi redirector for alsa...
16:19:26lokkibut it was copy and paste mostly
16:19:35lokkiand it took me like 4 hours
16:19:57preglownot bad without knowing c, hehe
16:20:05 Quit aliask (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:20:34lokkithe problem with learning c is that i don't know where to start exactly... i understand close to nothing and i want to write a plugin for rockbox for example
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16:22:08lokkii once bought a book, from cerningam ritchie or similar... helloworld and that stuff
16:22:57lokkibut i just don't want to work through all of this.... i guess that's what you mean by learning, he
16:23:34preglowyou more or less have to
16:23:51preglowthe key is starting at the bottom, but with a certain something to work towards in mind
16:24:23preglowjust trying to learn a language with nothing to use it for in mind never worked for me, so i guess it all depends on how complex what you want to make is
16:24:45lokkiand audio stuff is not trivial at all
16:24:52lokkiand thats what i want to do
16:25:16lokkicoding audio applications for live interaction with my computer
16:26:20lostlogicwhat's involved in giving a setting an additional value?
16:26:28lokkimaybe i shoud try to code some more midi stuff...
16:26:50preglowlokki: no, you're right in that
16:27:03preglowcoding audio does have a pretty high learning curve
16:27:09preglowmidi is simpler
16:27:17preglowbut again, not so interesting, at least if you ask me, hehe
16:28:03lokkiyeah, but you are a "senior programmer"... is it your profession?
16:29:37preglowat the moment my title is 'researcher' :)
16:29:57preglowbut yeah, right now i mostly do programming
16:30:15preglowand i don't think i'll be senior for a while, i'm just finished with my education
16:31:38lostlogicbah, I've got the setting working but it doesn't save so everytime I reboot it goes away.
16:33:08preglowlostlogic: can't help with that, i'm afraid
16:33:20lostlogicshit. it would need another bit to store an additional value, that's why.
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16:44:04*lostlogic submits another patch in his infinite quest to swamp rockbox devs with patches
16:44:10 Quit ender` (" The propeller is just a big fan in front of the plane used to keep the pilot cool. When it stops, you can actually watch the")
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16:50:56lostlogicnumeric file sort:
16:56:41 Quit t0mas (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:57:46lokkitrying to compile the simulator and get errors (on linux)
16:58:14lokkirockbox/rockbox/build/apps/lang.o: Relocations in generic ELF (EM: 4)rockbox/rockbox/build/apps/lang.o: could not read symbols: File in wrong formatcollect2: ld returned 1 exit status
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17:02:55Matzemay is ask if anyone knows a good game for long jurneys? I'm going to austria (from germany) in 3 hours... already have tetrox and bubbles from the custom made games...
17:03:14Matzeand maybe some rockboy games would be great :) do you know any good ones?
17:05:10 Quit Xerion_ ("l8r...")
17:05:35 Part b0br
17:09:53preglowif you can survive the extreme slowness of rockboy, zelda is good
17:10:50Matzei'll go finding it :) thx
17:14:12muesli__super mario is great
17:14:29muesli__its playable
17:20:12lokkihmm now it compiles (did make clean) but when i open the sim i can't run plugins... or play audio normal?
17:20:38 Quit |Beowulf| ("KVIrc 'Marmalade'")
17:22:36lokkii get the following
17:22:58lokkifailed to load /.rockbox/rocks/battery_test.rockdlopen(archos/.rockbox/rocks/battery_test.rock): archos/.rockbox/rocks/battery_test.rock: invalid ELF headerSegmentation fault
17:23:08Matzemuesli: i read that supermario is too slow
17:23:14Matzebut u think its okay?
17:23:17Matzewell i'll try
17:23:27muesli__i've played loads of times within lectures
17:23:47muesli__i dont know people are complaining about rockguys speed..its ok for me
17:28:19 Quit lokki ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
17:36:28preglowyou've gotta be joking
17:36:31preglowit's slow as hell
17:36:57preglowwhy it hasn't been optimised more since god knows when it was commited is beyond me
17:37:06preglowespecially since it seems to be somewhat popular
17:37:33lostlogicpreglow: probably not popular with the kind of people who like to spend their time doing nitty gritty optimization work
17:38:33preglowi don't use it much, at least :)
17:38:50lostlogicI've never even tried it
17:39:05preglowi tried it, found it incredibly slow, then stopped trying it
17:39:30lostlogiclol −− strange, I tried Tremor, found it slow, and decided to wrestle with it...
17:42:03Matzeokay mario is okay :)
17:42:41Matzewell i think rockboxdeveloping is quite hard work... thats why noone tries it :)
17:42:49lostlogicmake sure to have some way to charge −− if rockboy uses constant boost, it'll eat battery
17:43:05Matzeperhaps i'll have a look at in in a week when i'm back... but i'm not that good ^
17:43:11Matzeoeh i mean rockboy not rockbox
17:43:26preglowlostlogic: well, yeah, there is a reason i haven't tried optimising it since
17:43:33Matzeoh yes i have 3x 2100mAh nimh with me :) (3*4 batteries)
17:43:36preglowor the video plugin
17:43:43Matzethat should be enough for 2x 10 hours
17:44:45lostlogicholy batteries batman!
17:45:10lostlogicthat's a lot of juice
17:45:21Matzeyeah :)
17:45:23Matzei need it ^^
17:49:41Matzeam i right that there is no voltage regulator in the batteriepack? cause i made my own just with 4 batteries connected to the powerconnector...
17:50:01Matze(yeah late to ask this ^^ it charges since 5 minutes ago)
17:50:41lostlogicMatze: that is correct −− it's just a pack afaik −− the power supply in the player can handle charge input between 4.5 an 6.5 V if I recall correctly.
17:51:10 Quit DJDD_ ("Trillian (")
17:51:35preglowthe unit itself has a regulator
17:51:40preglowor at least i'd strongly hope so
17:51:51Matzei tried with a regulateable ac adapter (dunno right word, has stepless regulation option ^^) and it charges even if the voltage is 0,1V above the actual batteryvoltage (b ut then only very slow)
17:52:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:54:47lostlogicMatze: at 4.3V it charged? That's out of spec, I'd worry about burning up the power supply chip doing that too much
17:55:26preglowdinner time
17:58:30Matzelostlogic: i only tried it for a short time... but why should it burn up with a too low voltage? charging system is only a current/voltage limiteer I think, so just a small mosfet... if there is not enough "primary voltage" it cant charge, thats all i think
17:58:58Matzewell i've never looked at the schematics or datasheets of the charging circuit but i think it works like this
17:59:36Matzeand... i tried charging with 3,8V btw, when battery had 3,7V it draw about 50mA from my source
17:59:59Matzewell i can not guarant that battery was charging, but i assume this
18:01:13lostlogicMatze: hmm, you may be right −− hmm..... I know the power supply has step up and down modes, but those must be for the output to the internal components, not for the input from the charger −− low voltage burnups occur when step up hardware is forced to operate out of spec...
18:02:21Matzeyeah that is true
18:02:33Matzebut there is definitively no stepup for charging
18:03:00Matzenice undervoltage protection for rechargeable batteries you charge with...
18:03:56Matzeand if internal battery is nearly full ne need over 4,2 volts to charge it further
18:04:12lostlogicok, so here's the question −− people haev burned up the charging circuit by using bad AC adapters −− how do you think they did this?
18:04:21Matzeso "normal" alkalines wouldnt even be drawn empty
18:04:33Matzei think this was done by wrong polarity
18:04:44Matzeor maybe unstabilized (correct?) adapters
18:05:00Matzeadapters that output 7V with no load for example, and 5V with 2A drawn...
18:05:11Matzeor even worse
18:05:37Matzeoriginal power supply is a switching supply with nearly exact 5V output
18:05:42Matzeno matter what load
18:05:51lostlogic*nod* burned the mosfet from too large an Voc meaning the voltage would climb as the battery neared full charge... ouch.
18:06:04lostlogicMatze: you an EE?
18:06:14lostlogicElectrical Engineer
18:06:16Matzeoh no ^^
18:06:23Matzei'm just interested in electronics
18:06:32Matze17 year old pupil :)
18:06:55lostlogic:) nice
18:08:10Matzewell do you have any example for an ac adapter someone burned his iriver with?
18:09:29lostlogicno, would have to search on misticriver
18:10:05lostlogicactually the datasheet for the PCF50606 shows 0-15V Vchgvin (charger voltage) with 2.7 volts as the threshold for detecting a charger.
18:10:20Matzeyeah that's what i measured
18:10:38Matzesoftware shows charging symbol even with 3,0V connected
18:10:43Matzebut it drains no current from that :)
18:10:59Matzeso battery will DISCHARGE (cause LCD is powered from battery)
18:11:36Matzecant we measure the Powersupplyvoltage with internal ADC? or is it only connected to battery?
18:11:37lostlogicyeah, I've had that happen.
18:11:55lostlogicstill reading the datasheet
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18:13:04Matzei dont this this would be in datasheet.. or maybe charging circuit outputs this over I2C? (does it have that?) sorry i have little time so i'm not searching myself ^^ but i thought about the coldfire CPU, it has ADC which is connected to the battery. doesnt it has a second adc channel?
18:13:14Matzeoh first this=think
18:14:07lostlogicthe coldfire would have to read the charger state from the PCF50606, which looks like it's just 1 bit of a status register so it doesn't show voltage, just says whether it's over 2.7V or not
18:14:57lostlogicit has an I2C interface, I'm seeing if there's a way to read it there.
18:15:00Matzewell i just realize i have another hour ^^ argh misread my clock :) i'm going to austria in 1 hours 40 minutes
18:15:07lostlogichah :)
18:15:11Matzeyep, i'll try that too
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18:18:11Matzeokay we have 4 selectable ADC inputs in coldfire cpu... we only need to know what is connected there
18:21:01Matzeokay and: pcf50606 has 4 adc channels
18:21:15Matze2 of them can handle up to 6.0V
18:21:26Matzeand in reference design one should measure charging current...
18:21:44Matzethis is quite interesting i think, we only need to know if it's connected like reference design
18:22:21Matzeoh 50606 has own rtc? do we use that one or is there another one
18:22:22lostlogicperhaps we want to set the detmod to 1 so that we only detect a charger when the voltage is > Vbat+100mV
18:22:26lostlogicwe use that
18:22:41Matzeyeah detmod=1 would be great
18:22:55Matzeso we are sure it is charging...
18:23:22lostlogicI wonder if that's hardwired or configurable
18:23:25lostlogic*pokes around a bit*
18:24:31Matzethat must be reachable through I2C
18:24:40Matzecause it is not in the pinning information -> no pin
18:25:19lostlogicit is
18:25:30lostlogicreachable via i2c
18:25:38lostlogichafta figure out how
18:25:58Matzeokay i thouhgt u mean it is in pinning information
18:27:40Matzewell i'm sorry but i have to go offline now..
18:27:56Matzei'll be back in one week :)
18:28:13Matzegood bye
18:28:36 Quit Matze ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
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18:31:27NicoFRis there anyone here who's involved in codecs coding ?
18:31:32NicoFRespecially MPC
18:35:47NicoFRnobody ?
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18:47:45markunNicoFR: preglow is the mpc man I think
18:48:50NicoFRok ths i'll wait till he comes back from dinner
18:53:30lostlogiclet's find out what the main battery charge registers tell us!
18:58:51 Quit henrico ("[BX] iT's bEttEr tO bUrN oUt tHaN tO fAdE aWaY")
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19:20:24NicoFRI have to leave soon but I think preglow or any other MPC coder could be intereted by what I have to say
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19:20:44NicoFRI get a strange noise on some MPC files
19:21:02NicoFRsort of sharp, high pitched buzzing sound
19:21:48NicoFRit starts at the end of at least one particular track (ie it does it on one of my songs and maybe others but not all)
19:22:29NicoFRand then it goes on on other MPC tracks that follow in the playlist
19:23:02NicoFRit seems to stop when I go back in the playlist but not if I step forward
19:24:32NicoFRI'll post this in the forum but I'm not registred so I will do this when I find time... maybe someone could point this out to preglow when he comes back... thanks
19:26:15lostlogicweird −− the charger changed charge voltage settings for some reason that I cannot discern.
19:35:42lostlogicanyone have thoughts about enabling charger control on the H3x0?
19:35:47lostlogicseems a reasonable thing to do
19:37:19 Quit _FireFly_ ("Leaving")
19:37:31RotAtoRNicoFR: the mpc buzzing is a known issue:
19:37:49RotAtoRpreglow is well aware of it
19:52:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:52:22lostlogicWe definitely need more initialization of the power control module.
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19:55:16preglowi know, know
19:55:23preglowi was thinking of trying to fix it today
19:55:28preglowbut it's such a hard bloody bug to debug
19:55:55preglowif someone's got a five second track exhibiting the bug, please send it to me
19:56:20lostlogicpreglow: know anything about I2C?
19:56:43preglowthe shortest one i've got is four minutes, and it's not exactly fun having to wait four minutes to see if i've fixed the bug all the time
19:56:49preglowlostlogic: i know how it works low-level, not much more
19:57:04lostlogicI assume that I2C r/w is orders of magnitude slower than GPIO r/w?
19:57:18preglowoh yes
19:57:33preglowthat is, it depends how many gpio pins you use
19:57:48preglowif you're just using one pin it depends on what clock rate you use
19:58:06preglowi2c isn't really slow, but it is 1 bit serial
19:58:09markunpreglow: what do you think about a rockbox feature freeze so we can get a new release including iriver H1xx?
19:58:38preglowmarkun: i think it's worth a shot, but i wont be able to contribute seriously for a little while
19:59:13mirakhow does buffering works ? I mean does it takes ressource to load something from drive to ram ?
19:59:31preglowmarkun: i think it's worth waiting a little but anyway, just to see if more people wakes up again
19:59:37preglowwould be nice having timid around for it, hehe
19:59:41mirakthere is a caching thread or something ?
19:59:51preglowmirak: no, the playback thread does it
20:00:02preglowmirak: and yes, it takes resources, as the hard drive is spinning and working
20:00:10*lostlogic plays with enabling manual charge control for H3x0 and initializing the PCF50606 instead of counting on it to be in a sane state.
20:00:14mirakcan it shout down the playing ?
20:00:24mirakpreglow: it's done in background, right ?
20:00:28preglowwell, yeah
20:00:41markunmirak: researching buffering for the video player?
20:01:00mirakwell the libmpeg2 have a status flag
20:01:23mirakin fact you just give him a buffer and run a parse, then it says if it decoded something or if it needs more data
20:01:38markunHow far are you from a simple mpeg player?
20:01:55mirakactually the buffer is just filed for every 2 frames somehing like that
20:02:07mirakmarkun: it's still not ported to rockbox
20:02:28mirakbut it read mpeg2 and extract to files
20:02:43mirakI used the sample4
20:02:49markunwithout mallocs?
20:03:04mirakit's like xvid, I created a fake malloc with a static buffer
20:03:14mirakthe malloc are done just once at the begining
20:03:36miraklike xvid other mallocs could happen in case the video is resized in the stream
20:03:41mirakbut it won't happen anyway
20:04:45mirakpreglow: what I was wondering is when you reach the end of a buffer and that you need to rebuffer if the loading of data from file can stall everything
20:05:02mirakpreglow: what I was wondering is when you reach the end of a buffer and that you need to rebuffer, if the loading of data from file can stall everything
20:05:21lostlogicand then I think I fried my player by fucking with the power cord too much.
20:06:15markunlostlogic: really? It's dead?
20:06:44preglowmirak: haven't you tried rockbox or what? :P buffering obviously works while music is playing and buffering is happening
20:06:51preglowlostlogic: ouch, how?
20:06:52mirakmarkun: I think it's time to port it to rockbox
20:06:57lostlogicit got warm, and trying to boot either firmware seems to have issues spinning up.
20:07:24lostlogicpreglow: the power adapter I have at home has been a little bit iffy and I was plugging and replugging it repeatedly.
20:07:35mirakpreglow: lol, yes I have. I was wondering how it worked. I will not bother with that for now
20:08:19mirakpreglow: what I was wondering is when used with a very intensive codec. If it uses 98% of cpu, I guess it will stop playing music when caching
20:09:10mirakin fact the xvid exemple uses a buffer that is refilled when it reaches the half of it
20:09:36 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:09:40mirakbut I think it's useless unless the loading is concurrent and in another thread
20:09:48lostlogicbah, I can hear it try to spin up the HDD but it cuts out
20:09:54lostlogicfried PCF50606 my guess
20:10:13 Join Rob2222 [0] (
20:11:38lostlogicgonna let it cool and see if it comes back, but I doubt it. So, what should my next player be? :-D
20:13:35preglowon a related note, that chip should be replacable
20:14:19preglowam i the only one getting track skipping in the beginning of tracks when they're being buffered?
20:15:46lostlogicpreglow: on vorbis? I still get that during applause on some particular tracks.
20:15:56lostlogics/get/got until I fried my player by being a moron/
20:17:27 Join Moos [0] (
20:17:27 Quit DrMoos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:19:33preglowlostlogic: nah, just had it with both vorbis and mpc
20:19:49preglowbesides, the tracks are q5
20:19:55preglowit's a playback buffering bug
20:19:59preglowthe playback system still has plenty of bugs left
20:21:54lostlogicHmm... any idea where I could find an international H340 with no battery and no harddrive?
20:22:40preglowwhy'd you want that?
20:23:09lostlogicbecause I have a 2200mAh battery and a 40G hard drive right here, but I killed the power supply chip.
20:23:15preglowwhy not just order a chip?
20:23:28lostlogicno way I can do that soldering work.
20:25:07preglowdon't know anyone who can=?
20:26:14lostlogicdon't think so
20:28:46 Join San [0] (
20:30:32b0brlostlogic: :(( it's too bad..
20:31:27b0brtoday, i had a dream i bricked my player -> nightmare
20:32:36 Join lokki [0] (
20:32:48lokkipetur: are you there?
20:33:28 Join [San] [0] (
20:33:41hshahhello all
20:33:47lokkii enabled the remote control buttons for recording... (not the display)
20:33:52hshahanyone seen TiMiD around recently?
20:34:09hshahcan anyone commit my WPS instead?
20:34:28hshahTiMiD said he was going to when he got his connection fixed, but that was like November :s
20:36:33lokkianybody knows something about the peakmeter? (on iriver)
20:37:09preglowwell, what about it?
20:37:19lokkican it be enabled on the remote?
20:37:45preglowsure, someone just needs to code it
20:37:56lokkiok :)
20:38:07lokkiso it's not there yet
20:38:30lokkii don't know if recording from the remote will ever be possible
20:38:37lokkiwithout too much noise
20:38:43lostlogichmm... 60G ipod video is in my future, I think... so much for my m68k coding skills
20:39:27preglowdo a post and see if someone's got a dead h340
20:39:39lostlogicyeah, I will post on MR and see
20:39:41preglowit's not long since someone came in hear and announced he'd broken his
20:39:56lokkilostlogic: there is a wiki page about spare parts...
20:40:11lokkiput a request there too
20:40:44mirak#ifdef ARCH_X86
20:40:44mirakstatic void state_restore_mmx (cpu_state_t * state)
20:41:07mirakI have a macro ARCH_X86, I don't get why it doesn't skip that code
20:41:19mirakI mean that macro is not defined
20:41:23mirakI hope
20:41:28mirakis it ???
20:41:39mirakI build for H300 target
20:42:13lostlogicpreglow: does Rockbox-IPOD play music yet?
20:42:31lokkipreglow: if i enable the remote buttons for the recording screen and menu, i get clicky sounds on my recorded files (from line-in with no source attached!)
20:45:28 Quit joshn_454 ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'")
20:46:03mirakwhat's the preprocessor command to display something ?
20:50:23mirakok sorry ...
20:50:30mirakit was in the config file
20:51:23preglowlostlogic: play and play, heh, it does play it, but full of gaps and noise
20:51:33 Quit San (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:51:36 Join Vapour-X [0] (
20:51:36 Quit Vapour-X (Client Quit)
20:53:30lostlogicpreglow: haha, makes me unable to really buy an ipod replacement, because all my audio is OGG and apple's firmware doesn't do ogg :(
20:54:01 Quit YouCeyE (Remote closed the connection)
20:54:24 Join Vapour-X [0] (
20:54:32Vapour-Xfinally got on!
20:54:47Vapour-Xhi san and paprica
20:55:26Vapour-Xby the way paprica i gave up on space invaders lol
20:56:32Vapour-Xand asteroids, i decided i cant code c
20:56:39Vapour-Xshame really....
20:56:45Vapour-Xbut it was to confusing...
21:03:34mirakpreglow: how did you managed to use fprintf on stderr and don't get errors ?
21:03:50preglowi've never done that
21:03:57 Join joshn_454 [0] (
21:04:02mirakpreglow: ok
21:04:12preglowyou're probably looking at code i had to comment out to make it work
21:04:16mirakpreglow: what's the best thing I can do to remove the error with a minimum of effort ?
21:04:23preglowremove what error?
21:04:26preglowahh, right
21:04:27preglowno idea
21:04:32preglowyou'll have to implement fprintf
21:04:32 Join YouCeyE [0] (
21:04:41 Join webguest22 [0] (
21:04:41mirakno I won't
21:04:58mirakbut I was wondering if macros could help to transform maching lines
21:05:27mirakpreglow: for exemple tell the preprocessort to remove lines matching printf(.*)
21:05:31webguest22does anyone know whether there is a plug in for any pokemon or zelda games for the H1X0?
21:06:02 Quit Seed ("cu, Andre")
21:06:12webguest22sorry to be n00bish but i have only just installed rock box for the first time just now
21:06:22webguest22so not reallty undertanding rock boy?
21:06:46 Join Seed [0] (
21:06:50preglowrephrase, please, incomprehensible
21:07:01preglowSeed: hiya
21:07:18webguest22i only just installed rockbox but dont understand it very well , and would like to know hoe to play pokemon or zelda?
21:07:47preglow1. you need to find the rom files from some site, 2. you need to copy them to the player, 3. you need to just select them in the file browser
21:07:47 Part Seed
21:08:01webguest22will .gb files work?
21:08:23webguest22ah. i was getting confused by the ideas of plug ins and things like that
21:08:28webguest22thanks a lot for your help
21:08:38 Join Seed [0] (
21:08:38webguest22can anybody advise any good games for rock boy?
21:08:39preglowbeware that rockboy is almost unusable
21:08:46preglowit needs work badly
21:09:01webguest22i have read that, but i would like to try it anyway
21:09:17webguest22can anybody advise any good games for rock boy?
21:09:21preglowmore or less the only games i played on gameboy were some of the mario ones, and one zelda one
21:09:24preglowthey were all good
21:09:55webguest22right , 1 last thing . wheres the best place to get the roms from?
21:12:02 Join newnick [0] (
21:12:14 Quit webguest22 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
21:12:25newnickhi everyone
21:12:54newnickwhere do people get their roms for rockboy from?
21:13:22Vapour-Xjust search on google for gameboy roms
21:13:32newnickok then
21:13:37 Quit newnick (Client Quit)
21:15:15 Quit [San] (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:21:37 Quit lokki ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
21:31:52joshn_454anyone here using rockbox on ipod?
21:32:00preglowRotAtoR: you got any short files that trigger the mpc problem?
21:35:49RotAtoRnot any shorter than serveral minutes
21:36:56 Join lostlogic_ [0] (
21:36:59 Quit lostlogic_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:37:14RotAtoRi'll take a quick look through the shortest songs...
21:39:25preglowjust the shortest you can find will do
21:39:34preglowthe shortest i have is seven minutes...
21:40:47RotAtoRthat's no fun for debugging
21:40:57RotAtoRi'll see what i can come up with
21:44:44RotAtoRfound one that's 1:33 in length, can i dcc it to you?
21:49:49 Join DrMoos [0] (
21:49:49 Quit Moos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:49:56DreamTactix291mpc problem?
21:49:57DreamTactix291what sort?
21:50:01DreamTactix291i'm just curious
21:50:24RotAtoRa buzzing problem
21:50:32RotAtoRyou can read about it here:
21:50:45 Quit Sixtiz ("Parti")
21:50:48DreamTactix291just curious since i used to use musepack a long time ago
21:51:13DreamTactix291also Porcupine Tree are cool :)
21:51:31RotAtoRhehe, one of my favorites ;)
21:52:01Vapour-Xso... whats everyone listening to on their rockboxed daps? ;)
21:52:02 Join San [0] (
21:52:11Vapour-Xhi san
21:52:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:52:18dpassen1The Who - Quadrophenia, currently
21:52:33Vapour-Xhey san think you can come on msn?
21:52:57Vapour-Xdpassen1: cool
21:53:10Sani'm on now
21:53:14Vapour-Xso i see
21:58:09DreamTactix291i don't listen to my DAP when i'm at my computer
21:58:21DreamTactix291i am listening to Frameshift - Unweaving the Rainbow
21:58:28DreamTactix291excellent album
21:59:12RotAtoRthat's the James LaBrie album, right?
21:59:22DreamTactix291i have both Frameshift albums
21:59:31DreamTactix291Sebastian Bach sings on An Absence of Empathy
22:00:28 Join solexx [0] (
22:00:58RotAtoRI don't think i've ever listened to frameshift, but maybe i should, i'm a fan of DT
22:03:16DreamTactix291as am I
22:03:50DreamTactix291you've heard Ayreon - The Human Equation right?
22:03:59lostlogicHmm... say I want rockbox on iPod to act nearly as possible just like it did on the iRiver (because I have no intention of every using iTunes), is that planned to be possible?
22:04:07RotAtoRyup, i own that album :)
22:05:09DreamTactix291and you know that after that Arjen Lucassen and Marcela Bovio did Stream of Passion - Embrace the Storm right?
22:05:59RotAtoRno, i didn't hear about that
22:06:38DreamTactix291it was good
22:07:08lostlogic::blink blink:: iPod is dual core... rockbox SMT!
22:09:24 Quit Maxime (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:09:34preglowlostlogic: that _is_ the plan
22:10:06lostlogicdamn, also has hardware mpeg4 acceleration... that thing's a beast.
22:10:36preglowit is
22:10:39*lostlogic breaks down and buys one and prepares to optimize Tremor for something new :-D
22:10:43preglowand you should know that before buying it, btw
22:10:54preglowthere is one chip in it that is virtually unkown
22:11:02preglowthe chip that does the video decoding
22:11:13joshn_454and that talks to the display
22:11:29joshn_454which is why the display is so slow on the 5g
22:11:39preglowaccording to linuxstb, it isn't so slow
22:12:24joshn_454it's not too bad until you try to play audio while updating the display. Then it goes down to 2 or 3 fps
22:12:33lostlogicdo you think it is reasonable to hope for iPod 5G vorbis playing by say March? That's really the only thing very important to me
22:12:36preglowwhat, they've got audio working?
22:12:49preglowlostlogic: i have no idea
22:12:56saa[b_r]iderRoTaToR, you're here... I have something for you :)
22:12:59preglowi wont have (much) time to work on it about a month
22:13:00lostlogicpreglow: I should really read topics ;)
22:13:17RotAtoRsaa[b_r]ider: ok, send it on over :)
22:13:24preglowjoshn_454: ipl people have sound working now?
22:13:27mirakpreglow: I am almost done mpeg2
22:13:31mirak /home/karim/Prog/src/rockbox/builddir/apps/plugins/libmpeg2/ nonconstant expression for origin
22:13:31mirakcollect2: ld returned 1 exit status
22:13:36 Quit solexx_ (Read error: 111 (Connection refused))
22:13:37mirakI have that error on linking
22:13:43saa[b_r]iderI just made a screen for bubbles! I'll post it at MR now
22:14:01lostlogicpreglow: I can deal. Hopefully I can help too!
22:14:03RotAtoRcool, i'll check over there
22:14:21joshn_454preglow: no, but you can play audio. It's just that no sound comes out
22:14:44lostlogiccan decode audio, and send it to the bitbucket you mean?
22:14:44preglowi wonder how apple deals with it
22:15:03preglowthey way it's used now is mainly just for compatability with ipod diagnostics
22:15:06preglowor at least that's my guess
22:15:28joshn_454iPL people are working on faster screen rates, IIRC
22:15:34preglowyes, but it'll be hard
22:15:44preglowthey'll need to reprogram the broadcom chip, afaik
22:16:32 Join henrico [0] (
22:18:08preglowi wonder if they've tried contacting broadcom
22:18:35joshn_454broadcom is infamous for refusing to release docs, aren't they?
22:19:01joshn_454btw, how does rockbox deal with the COP now? does it just ignore it?
22:19:21preglowi put it to sleep, then never wake it
22:20:02preglowi'll wake it when it's got something to wake up to
22:21:11joshn_454man, I wish we had docs for the new wolfson chip
22:21:18preglowyou know if it's very different?
22:21:24preglowi fucking _HATE_ not having docs
22:21:27preglowgod, it sucks
22:21:38joshn_454it's the only major component that's changed from the nano re: sound
22:21:46preglowespecially when the only reference you is the ipl source, which also isn't very friendly
22:21:54preglowyeah, know, it's very similar
22:23:00mirakpreglow: I don't know the reason, but the other plugins are OUTPUT_FORMAT(elf32-m68k) I don't know why this one is set arm
22:23:25joshn_454preglow: so are you sorta a bridge between ipl and rockbox?
22:23:41preglowwell, i tend to hang out in #ipodlinux to ask questions
22:23:53preglownot so much a bridge as a nagging nuisance, hehe
22:24:47joshn_454I just got a video for the sole purpose of getting rockbox on it, so I'm rapidly moving into that same role :-)
22:25:41preglowahh, cool
22:29:12 Join Maxime [0] (
22:29:43 Join Rob- [0] (
22:32:03mirakpreglow: any idea why it would default to arm ?
22:33:00preglowmirak: i have no idea at all
22:33:02preglowlooks strange
22:33:28Papricasaa[b_r]ider, very nice
22:33:38saa[b_r]idermerci :)
22:33:48saa[b_r]iderat least I can do "something" :D
22:34:11saa[b_r]idermaybe I can't write code, but I can do a little bit of photoshoping ;)
22:34:12preglowthat game rocks
22:34:57RotAtoRpreglow: i've got a nicely working version posted in that thread ;)
22:34:59saa[b_r]iderI finished all 100 levels a few months ago :D I never knew I'd be able to play it on my iRiver before, or I would've waited ;)
22:35:08RotAtoReven has ipod support... :D
22:35:14preglowRotAtoR: and the controls will be SUPER on ipod
22:35:27RotAtoRyup, scroll to aim should work well
22:35:46*saa[b_r]ider admits that preglow is right
22:35:57preglownow, one game left:
22:36:00preglowpuyo pop
22:36:19preglowwhere'd you get the gfx, btw?
22:36:29RotAtoRfrom frozen bubble
22:37:14saa[b_r]iderso RoTaToR, can this be implemented?
22:38:05RotAtoRsaa[b_r]ider: it looks good, it should be fairly easy to implement
22:38:30saa[b_r]idervery nice...
22:38:37saa[b_r]iderI can do a splash screen as well
22:38:59RotAtoRi don't know if i want to outright right rip off all the frozen bubble graphics though...
22:39:12preglowwhy not?
22:39:14preglownot gpl?
22:39:20RotAtoRit is gpl
22:39:30RotAtoRbut it still seems like cheating :p
22:39:41preglowbut the gfx are nice
22:39:49RotAtoRthat they are
22:39:50saa[b_r]iderwe can add it as a port of their game, on their official page
22:40:13RotAtoRbut no need for the penguin motif, rockbox is not linux...
22:40:55RotAtoRsaa[b_r]ider: but it's not actually a port per se... it's written completely from scratch
22:41:18saa[b_r]ideronly the graphics and stages... right
22:41:48RotAtoRright, just used their data, not their code
22:42:00preglowstill, i like the gfx
22:42:17preglowi didn't even see they were penguins, heh
22:42:25RotAtoRfine, i'll use them for now :p
22:42:40RotAtoRthey do look very good
22:42:54 Join mc365 [0] (
22:43:01RotAtoRthanks saa[b_r]ider!
22:43:11 Quit mc365 (Client Quit)
22:43:12saa[b_r]ideron the contrary, thank you ;)
22:43:21 Join mc_365 [0] (
22:44:03mc_365need advise
22:44:24saa[b_r]iderbtw, what image format are the "bubbles" in?
22:44:45mc_365I love the iPods egronomics but I absolutely need gapless
22:45:13saa[b_r]iderI thought iPods supported gapless AAC or something
22:45:14mc_365should I get an iriver and do rockbox or get an iPod and wait for the port
22:46:03mc_365you have to make 1 big file and bookmark it
22:46:08saa[b_r]idermc_365: depends on your prioraties
22:46:36saa[b_r]iderwhich iRiver are you considering?
22:46:59saa[b_r]iderH300 or H100?
22:47:00mc_365I can wait but I need gapless as it would be primarily hooked to the stereo so I don't have to always play from my network
22:47:30mc_365Are the H10 20gb supported yet
22:47:46saa[b_r]ideronly the two I mentioned
22:48:15RotAtoRsaa[b_r]ider: the graphic just need to be bmps so they can be run through bmp2rb
22:48:18preglownow look at this
22:48:26mc_365I thought I read on dapreview it was working on the H10
22:48:29preglowthe good david bryant has mailed me with a possible solution to the musepack problem
22:48:49preglowgood thing i didn't start debugging already, then
22:48:54preglowi'll give it a test now
22:48:58RotAtoRworks on codecs that aren't even his!
22:49:06RotAtoRdoes he even have a rb capable player?
22:49:14preglowhe has a h140
22:49:22RotAtoRahh, ok
22:49:32preglowhow else was he supposed to be able to code wavpack support? :P
22:49:48saa[b_r]idermc_365, it does not work on the H10.. h100, yes (sometimes refered to as H1x0 or H1xx)
22:49:48RotAtoRheh, i suppose that would be a td hard...
22:49:55preglowand annoying
22:50:05preglowtime for some coding music
22:50:24saa[b_r]iderrotator, so the little circules are bmps?
22:50:49mirakmc_365: H300 are discountinued
22:51:21RotAtoRsaa[b_r]ider: yes
22:52:10saa[b_r]iderdo you use a certain color for transperancy?
22:52:21 Join webguest09 [0] (
22:52:41mc_365Why do companies hate gapless
22:52:54RotAtoRsaa[b_r]ider: nope, there is no transparency support for color bitmaps
22:53:03webguest09I would like to try the current version of rockbox on my ipod, just to see what the interface looks like
22:53:11saa[b_r]iderhow are the edges not overlapping then?
22:53:33RotAtoRthe outside circle is monochrome... each bubble is actually two images
22:53:41mc_365so I guess I have no choice accept the iPod or a refurb Karma
22:53:50RotAtoRthe inside color images don't overlap
22:54:17preglowifp port patch posted
22:54:46webguest09I hope Rockbox works on the iPod soon
22:55:03RotAtoRsaa[b_r]ider: it's a bit ugly, but it's the only way i can use color bubbles
22:55:09lostlogicman I just had a waking nightmare about making rockbox work in SMT... there are a lot of places that assume nothing's changed unless they explicitly went to sleep.
22:55:44saa[b_r]ideractually it looks good. I was wondering if there was a way to fix the graphics in bejeweled
22:56:00RotAtoRnope, not at the moment
22:56:23saa[b_r]idersoon maybe :)
22:56:39preglownot bad, seems my arm startup code works on ifp as well
22:57:03*amiconn finally got a H340
22:57:11saa[b_r]iderbtw, I'm trying to work on a RB specific background, that's not a frozen bubble knock off ;) but don't expect it anytime soon!
22:57:19lostlogicamiconn: just as I kill mine, yay!
22:57:31 Quit San (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:57:53amiconnlostlogic: What happened?
22:57:56preglowamiconn: what, another iriver?
22:58:00RotAtoRsaa[b_r]ider: nice, thanks
22:58:04preglowamiconn: ipod!
22:58:10 Quit webguest09 ("CGI:IRC")
22:58:16lostlogicamiconn: I fried it messing with my cheap power adapter trying to learn about the PCF50606.
22:58:21amiconnpreglow: That's _very_ unlikely
22:59:03preglowthis'll end with me buying you one, you know ;)
22:59:18amiconnReally? ;)
23:00:02preglowif i become a millionare: yes
23:00:03BagderRockbox on the ipod will probably for the first time make Rockbox cover more players than any known single person owns
23:00:49amiconnI don't like the iPod hardware. Unfortunately it's the most widespread player brand afaik
23:01:16preglowi don't like it either
23:01:27preglowthat is, it's ok, but i want docs!
23:01:56lostlogic#mr is telling me that the iPod DAC is a lot worse than the UDA1380, any thoughts?
23:02:02preglowBagder: what's the position on the ifp port?
23:02:17preglowlostlogic: i don't really know, i haven't used mine for listening to music yet :PP
23:02:22BagderI haven't check his patch but I would like to see it merged
23:02:24mirakpreglow: what could unset in the variable CONFIG_CPU ?
23:02:35preglowmirak: god knows, nothing should, are you sure it's unset?
23:02:39mirakI added a #warning
23:02:51preglowlostlogic: but yeah, the general consensus is the ipod audio quality isn't really tops
23:03:00amiconnlostlogic: If that is so, then the iPod dac must really suck. The UDA is already worse than the MAS integrated DAC...
23:03:02mirak#ifdef CPU_COLDFIRE
23:03:02mirak#elif CONFIG_CPU==PP5020
23:03:02DBUGEnqueued KICK mirak
23:03:02mirak#warning hello
23:03:03***Alert Mode level 1
23:03:18 Quit Vapour-X ()
23:03:32mirakfor all the linking it's ok and go into #ifdef CPU_COLDFIRE doing OUTPUT_FORMAT(elf32-m68k)
23:03:56mirakhowever for the last plug I created it enters in #elif CONFIG_CPU==PP5020
23:04:04mirakI am sure of the because the warning is displayed
23:04:44BagderCPU_COLDFIRE looks totally wrong
23:04:48mirakI have grepped and serached the code but I don't see any undef
23:04:57BagderCONFIG_CPU should be MCF5249
23:05:08preglowCPU_COLDFIRE is right
23:05:15preglowit's a define for all coldfires
23:05:21preglowjust as CPU_ARM is a define for all arms
23:05:33preglowso we don't need endless #if CONFIG_CPU == lolcpu || chains
23:05:43Bagderright, its in config.h
23:06:04mirakI am searching why suddenly the variable is unset
23:06:14Papricaplease if you can
23:06:18Papricajoin in
23:06:28Papricai can win an ipod nano
23:06:42Bagdermirak: it isn't unset in the CVS sources, right?
23:07:21mirakI haven't synced cvs for some time now
23:07:42Bagderif it would, no build for irivers would work
23:08:28mirakyes, especially here, only the plugin I added have that problem
23:10:58 Join TCK [0] (
23:13:04***Alert Mode OFF
23:13:06preglowi think the current ifp patch will break ipod
23:14:13mirakmaybe there is a global unset somewhere
23:14:18mirakhow would it look like ?
23:14:42BagderI would assume you just messed up the #include in the top of the lds file
23:15:04Bagderor possibly messed up some of the generic defines the config.h file needs
23:16:14mirakI didn't changed the lds file in the top
23:17:24mirakwould it be possible the config.h of mpeg2 override the one into plugins ?
23:17:35Bagderrename it
23:17:36preglowthey need to be renamed
23:17:45mirakoK :-/
23:17:47preglowthat's the reason _all_ config.h in the codecs are renamed
23:19:18amiconnNot only config.h. Gnuboy had an lcd.h which needed to be renamed for rockboy. Such problems are sometimes hard to track down.
23:19:48preglowon a more positive note, you probably wont go in this trap again :)
23:20:04preglowand it reminded me of its existence
23:20:07amiconnI hope so...
23:22:02lostlogicthe SNR on the wolfon codec datasheet most similar to the iPod video one is indeed worse than the UDA1380
23:23:15amiconnThe UDA has rather poor channel separation
23:25:09lostlogicamiconn: it's a 100dB SNR, 90dB separation on wolfson and 90/100 on UDA 1380 (for the DAC)
23:25:56amiconnI don't believe the 100 dB channel separation. If it's not the UDA, it's some other part of the iriver hardware that produces the poor channel separation
23:26:14mirakpoor channel separation ?
23:26:20mirakwhat do you mean ?
23:26:24preglowi don't think the uda is the culprit
23:26:30lostlogicgah, swap those numbers, the wolfson has the better separation and worse SNR
23:27:18amiconnI did a test: Set volume to max, balance to one extreme. Put the loud earpiece away, preferably under a cushion or such. Put the quiet earpiece into the ear.
23:27:28lostlogicthe headphone driver in the UDA1380 shows between 60 and 74dB separation, so that's where htye get coupled
23:27:32amiconnWhen I do this with an archos, I don't hear anything
23:27:46amiconnOn the iriver I can hear the music very well
23:28:17amiconn..and thats in spite of the fact that the maximum volume of the iriver is lower than that of the archos
23:28:27lostlogicthe wolfson does not list a channel separation number for the headphone driver
23:28:33preglowyou can hear 60db seperation
23:28:53preglowthis should be pretty easily measurable
23:28:54lostlogicif the music is 100dB in one ear, then you should be able to hear it pretty fine?
23:29:13preglowi only have digital inputs on this rig, though
23:29:17preglowso no can do
23:29:52CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
23:29:52*preglow notices the a/d unit sitting next to him
23:29:59preglowahh, the problem is now that i don't have a cable
23:30:20lostlogicthe "analog output" channel separation is 85dB on wolfson
23:30:26preglowway better
23:31:13 Quit TCK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:31:14lostlogicpreglow: if that's the right measurement −− it doesn't call that the "headphone out" number, which is the number ranging from 60-74 (depending on load) on the uda1380
23:31:42amiconnAh, MAS3587 crosstalk attenuation (headphone output): 80 dB
23:31:59preglowthen ipod beats archos
23:32:07amiconnYes, by a few dB
23:33:33lostlogicdoes it seem like it'll be reasonable to leave the COP off for normal music decoding, and only turn it on for things like rockboy + music, or will we use it as a 'boost processor' for music playing as well?
23:33:55amiconnThis is with 16 Ohm headphones, for which the UDA datasheet lists 60 dB typical (minimum 55 dB)
23:34:05amiconn55 dB is compact cassette level...
23:34:52preglowlostlogic: we'll use the cop for decoding, probably
23:35:19preglowlostlogic: there'll be no dynamic scheduling of tasks, one of the two cores will be used for a specific thing
23:35:32lostlogicpreglow: ahhh... my nightmare of SMT fades.
23:35:33preglowthis is in order to keep the scheduler simple
23:35:52preglowi don't want rockbox to end up looking like linux :-)
23:36:06lostlogicI guess I'm settled on buying an ipod 5g then
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23:36:56lostlogichas anyone managed to hunt down the datasheet for the _actual_ wolfson chip in the iPod or are we going off of the 'nearest' and what iPL can figure out?
23:37:15miner49erhas anyone any experience of opening up an Iriver HP120?
23:37:44preglowlostlogic: no datasheet for that chip
23:37:57lostlogicman, that is harsh.
23:38:03preglowlostlogic: which is also the case for the nano chip, but they have managed to find a sheet that's very similar
23:38:37preglowthat's what coding for ipod is like
23:38:44miner49er...or how to fix one after an incorrect charger was plugged in?
23:38:51preglowminer49er: you don't fix that
23:38:57preglowminer49er: you toss it in the scrapyard
23:39:02Bagderminer49er: that usually fry it badly
23:39:08lostlogicminer49er: that's basically what I did to my H340 today ;( sucks.
23:39:12miner49erno? okay then, forget I asked.
23:39:35preglowminer49er: how does it behave?
23:40:39preglowlostlogic: you inserted an incorrect charger several times???
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23:41:47miner49erpreglow: I don't know the exact details, my brother did it and then sent it up to me.
23:42:01preglowminer49er: well, yeah, but what does it do when you try to turn it on? nothing?
23:42:05lostlogicpreglow: the charger meets specs, but it's cheap and I know it has had shorting problems, which I had 'fixed' by the angle it was at −− I futzed with it today while the iRiver was plugged... poof.
23:42:10miner49erpreglow: all I know is he tried to charge with a UK Nokia charger (he bought it in the US)
23:42:29Bagderthe "Nokia Syndrome"
23:42:32Bagderit kills
23:42:52preglowlesson: use the friggin iriver charger
23:43:06preglowminer49er: well, yeah, i'm afraid it's probably dead then
23:43:13preglowthe hd might still live
23:43:16*amiconn has to be very careful with the chargers
23:43:31amiconnThe archos charger plug also fits the iriver socket
23:43:36miner49erpreglow: It will come on, if i've left it for a while and then use my Archos charger (I know that's not the right spec either but I just tried it) but the HD doesn't spin up at all (it says low battery) and then after a while it gives up and dies.
23:43:53preglowmore responsive than i'd thought
23:44:07Bagderthen it isn't as fried as it can be
23:44:13miner49erThis is what made me think, it may be salvegable
23:44:28BagderI recall Linus' one having the CPU killed
23:44:36miner49erI wonder if the charging circuit or battery is just knackered?
23:44:45lostlogicI'm pretty sure mine is just the power supply chip, but I'm not able to resolder that if I could even get my hands on a new chip
23:44:50lostlogicminer49er: probably the power supply chip
23:44:51amiconnminer49er: Maybe you just fried the charging circuit
23:44:55 Join matsl [0] (
23:45:04preglowlucky you in that case
23:45:54miner49eramicon: is the circuit a simple one that can be replaced? Or could I bypass the circuit and power the board directly? and then just use it for testing code on?
23:46:36miner49erit would be nice to get something out of it, other than a tiny HD!
23:46:36 Quit Paprica (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:46:41amiconnYou can't bypass it. Charging LiIon without proper limiting is dangerous
23:46:51lostlogicare there high res pics of the ipod 5g around?
23:47:04amiconnDangerous as in 'may catch fire or even explode'
23:47:28amiconnminer49er: H120, right?
23:47:38miner49eramiconn: what about supplying voltage to the board directly from a PSU without a battery plugged in?
23:47:40amiconnThe charging chip itself is this one:
23:47:47miner49eramicon: yeah, that's right
23:49:05amiconnMaybe supplying the power to the board directly will work, if you find the right place to connect it
23:49:17preglowRotAtoR: you here?
23:49:28amiconnIt would be a good test whether the rest of the unit still works ok
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23:52:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:53:47miner49eramiconn: it's all academic a the moment anyway, because I don't even have the right tool to open the thing up :-)
23:54:17lostlogicfound a place to _buy_ wm8758, but still no datasheet.
23:55:43b0brdoes anybody know about progress on recording in lossy format (mp3 of vorbis)? this doesn't sound very optimistic, but this does..
23:55:55 Join webguest05 [0] (
23:56:49preglowthe mp3 encoder works pretty well
23:57:11b0bryeah, but i need online..
23:57:24preglowi actually don't know why it's not commited
23:57:27preglowsource is messy
23:57:38preglowand there's always the patent discussion
23:57:49b0brmaybe still legal issues?
23:58:56webguest05Isn't that also the case with decoders?

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