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#rockbox log for 2006-02-17

00:00:07amiconnOkay, I'll check...
00:00:26[IDC]DragonI'd better zip you my test app
00:00:43 Quit midkay_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:02:39Mikachuwow, it looks like it doesn't conflict with the other patch
00:03:30Mikachuthere is a patch for the jpeg viewer to allow viewing without stopping playback
00:03:38Mikachuand switching images without leaving the plugin
00:04:30[IDC]DragonI touched only the decoder core, not the app
00:04:51Mikachuah, so more to come then
00:04:58[IDC]Dragonfrom /**************** begin JPEG code ********************/
00:05:11[IDC]Dragonto /**************** end JPEG code ********************/
00:05:50FitzsimmonsI for one would like to ever handeled the non-linear seek code
00:05:56Fitzsimmons*like to thank
00:06:12Fitzsimmonssigh, I have barely been able to put together a sentence today
00:09:16 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:09:17 Nick elinenbe_ is now known as elinenbe (
00:11:02CassandraGuys, guys. I think you can lay off optimising the colour iPod display drivers now.
00:11:10 Quit RotAtoR (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:11:37CassandraThe difference between 52fps and 54fps (or indeed 104fps) isn't going to be noticeable.
00:12:01LinusNCassandra: party-pooper! :-)
00:12:03 Join imphasing_ [0] (
00:12:03elinenbeCassandra: don't be silly! It will matter when other stuff is going on!
00:12:06Mikachubut having 1% cpu to spare or 50% cpu to spare does
00:12:21linuxstbCassandra: Anything that gives more time to audio decoding is good...
00:12:26elinenbehey... it looks like we could be moments away from cover images in the WPS?
00:12:38CassandraI guess.
00:12:49Mikachujpg pictures from id3(or other) tags?
00:13:25linuxstbelinenbe: What makes you say that?
00:13:49CassandraI bet you've still hit the point of diminishing returns though. Optimising other code will probably yield greater speed increases.
00:14:00linuxstbCassandra: Don't worry, I've stopped :)
00:14:15CassandraGood boy. *gri*
00:14:17[IDC]Dragonamiconn: oops, I'
00:14:24[IDC]Dragonmore oops
00:14:33linuxstbWll, I have one more change to commit, then I'm done.....
00:14:34CassandraThat's kind of like a grin that doesn't get finished.
00:14:40[IDC]DragonI've emailed my test code to the comitter list
00:14:48[IDC]Dragoninstead of just Jens
00:14:58imphasing_linuxstb: Did you get anything figured out with the LCD driver?
00:15:02[IDC]Dragonwell, nothing offensive
00:15:41linuxstbimphasing: No - josh's routine didn't work properly for me, and didn't give any speedup anyway. If you get something working, let me know.
00:16:00elinenbe[IDC]Dragon: what is the committer list?
00:16:03 Join amiconn_ [0] (
00:16:11 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
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00:16:14amiconnhrmpf :/
00:16:26[IDC]Dragondid you read me?
00:16:41CassandraIt's the list of people who need to be commited to a mental institution for working too much on Rockbox.
00:17:00elinenbeCassandra: no need for wisecracks!
00:17:13[IDC]Dragonthat's another symptom
00:17:57imphasing_linuxstb: Alright. Did you get that little bar of corrupted pixels when you used it?
00:18:08Cassandraelinenbe, perhaps you're unaware that I'm on the list (or maybe you just don't like my sense of humour.) It's people who have access to the Rockbox CVs.
00:18:18Cassandrawrite access, I mean.
00:18:43linuxstbimphasing: No. You can fix that by using lcd_framebuffer[0][0] instead of [y][x]
00:19:02imphasing_Huh, cool.
00:19:08elinenbeCassandra: ah...
00:19:13imphasing_I'll fiddle with it some more when I get home.
00:19:43amiconnHrmph again. T-Online mailserver doesn't seem to like interrupted pop3 sessions :(
00:20:10Cassandra[IDC]Dragon, any chance you could bring one of those diskless players to Devcon for me?
00:22:13Cassandra(I think I already have one of the widest collections of Rockbox devices out there, but player is a very useful platform for testing, since it's the only one with a charcell display.
00:25:11CassandraI bought one off eBay a while back but it turned out to be a total turkey. You're very welcome to it for your graveyard if you'd like it.
00:25:42imphasing_I want a graveyard..
00:26:02 Join DJ_Dooms_Day [0] (
00:26:05[IDC]DragonCassandra: I'll try to bring one
00:26:22Cassandrait's easy enough to get one. Just buy loads of MP3 players then break them. ;)
00:26:25[IDC]Dragonif my backpack isn't collapsing with me
00:26:51CassandraMailing works too, if that's easier.
00:26:51BagderI've ordered the official devcon shirts too
00:27:04[IDC]Dragonin what sizes?
00:27:11CassandraIs there a picture of the design?
00:27:14elinenbeBagder: what ever happened to the rockbox shirts ;)
00:27:24BagderXL and L
00:27:30LinusN /kick elinenbe
00:28:04[IDC]DragonL isn't kind for ladies
00:28:08BagderCassandra: nope
00:28:13[IDC]Dragon(nor XL)
00:28:16Bagderthere's a few M too actually
00:28:24CassandraNo need, Linus. Standard Rockbox response #2 - "No-one is working on that at the moment. Feel free to submit a patch." ;)
00:28:47Bagderrockbox blue they are ;-)
00:28:58elinenbeSeriously though... the t-shirt says −− on the front "Jesus Saves"
00:29:00Bagderwell, hopefully quite similar to that blue at least
00:29:01CassandraBagder, I'll look forward to the surpise then.
00:29:03*[IDC]Dragon got black bumpers
00:29:05elinenbeand back : "after every level"
00:29:50Cassandra[IDC]Dragon, you're so l33t!
00:30:18[IDC]Dragonwait til I brag about the mods!
00:30:25t0mas[00:27:33] <elinenbe> Bagder: what ever happened to the rockbox shirts ;) <−− have I missed a joke there?
00:30:31*Cassandra is really looking forward to Devcon.
00:30:53Cassandra[IDC]Dragon, my FM has a mic out port. ;)
00:31:30[IDC]Dragonno video in?
00:31:31elinenbereal question... has anyone ever heard of a wireless AP with a built in gigabit switch?
00:32:02elinenbet0mas: a few years back there was a contest to produce a rockbox shirt.
00:32:05Bagdergoogle for "wlan gigabit"
00:32:21t0maselinenbe: I might have seen some pictures of that...
00:32:21Cassandra[IDC]Dragon, I'm saving the space for a HDMC connector.
00:32:26t0masbut what is the joke with those?
00:32:30t0masthey looked ok to me...
00:32:37 Quit Moos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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00:32:49CassandraI seem to recall it's where the Rockbox logo came from.
00:33:01Bagderno, we had the logo before that
00:33:20amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Am I supposed to expect weird subsampling? Or should it be enough to support 2x1 and 2x2 subsampling for U and V
00:33:24Bagdert0mas: its just that we never actually made/got any shirts
00:33:33t0masoooooh ok
00:33:40*t0mas always tought those were really printed...
00:33:56[IDC]Dragonamiconn: I've seen 2x1 vertical
00:34:09[IDC]Dragonbut that's about it
00:34:13*imphasing_ has a hankering to code
00:34:17amiconnIs the number of components available from the struct, before decoding the bitmaps?
00:34:20Bagderthis time I and Linus designed the shirts and ran for it ;-)
00:34:20[IDC]Dragonincluding 1x1, of course
00:34:26elinenbet0mas: you must not have ordered 20 of them like I did... just kidding!
00:34:47amiconn(for greyscale jpeg support)
00:34:52t0masBagder: is the design secret? or have you uploaded it somewhere?
00:34:53*[IDC]Dragon checks
00:35:51Bagderit isn't a very speical design, it is basically a clean logo on the chest and a nice blue shirt
00:36:23imphasing_Do they come with pocket protectors?
00:36:33 Quit midgey34 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:36:39t0masBagder: how much have you ordered?
00:36:55t0masexpecting so much devs?
00:37:00Bagder6 ;-)
00:37:10t0masare the other 19... to order?
00:37:15Bagderor 7 actually
00:37:16LinusNtp win!
00:37:19 Quit imphasing_ (" webchat CGI:IRC 0.5.4 (2005)")
00:37:25t0masas in... can I send you some money and get one? :)
00:37:34[IDC]Dragonamiconn: after build_lut(), jpeg->blocks will be =1
00:37:36Bagdernow when you know there are shirts, surely more will come? ;-)
00:37:51amiconn[IDC]Dragon: The subsampling info is available after processing the markers, right?
00:38:02Bagdert0mas: I think we'll be able to arrange something like that after devcon
00:38:11t0masyeah, but I'm busy march/april... so I can't come this year (and I can't afford the ticket atm :))
00:38:21markunt0mas: maybe he can send you 2 and I'll come to visit you some time to pick mine up..
00:38:29[IDC]Dragonafter build_lut(), as well
00:38:32t0masmarkun: no problem
00:38:39markunt0mas: what city do you live in?
00:38:46t0masGouda, but working in Utrecht
00:39:02t0mas(I assume you have an "OV kaart"?
00:39:08markunyes, I have
00:39:11t0masso that won't be a problem :))
00:39:20markunBut only for weekends
00:39:28t0maswe'll see
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00:42:18CassandraI hear that if you speak English REALLY LOUDLY, that makes it intelligable to people that don't speak it. I'll be relying on that a lot during my trip to Sweden. ;)
00:43:02t0maswhere are you from?
00:44:00 Quit Febs ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:44:13*[IDC]Dragon says goodnight
00:44:28midkaynight idc
00:44:46 Quit [IDC]Dragon ()
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00:51:31 Quit ender` (" In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penisses)
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01:02:47 Join Shadowarrior13 [0] (
01:02:59Shadowarrior13We need a better control scheme for rockboy on the ipod XD
01:03:43imphasing_Why play gameboy games on an ipod?!
01:03:55Shadowarrior13...why not?
01:04:04Shadowarrior13<3 super mario
01:04:08 Part LinusN
01:04:28imphasing_Game-o's are for lamo-o's
01:05:47imphasing_I don't play games anymore.
01:06:24imphasing_I wasted way too much time doing that..
01:06:30 Quit Moos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:09:31 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
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01:13:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:15:37 Quit imphasing_ (" webchat CGI:IRC 0.5.4 (2005) (EOF)")
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01:25:49linuxstbShadowarrior13: Can you test something for me?
01:26:49 Quit muesli__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:27:20linuxstbCan you go into the main menu, then Info -> Debug -> View I/O Ports
01:27:34Shadowarrior13If it loads >.<
01:27:45linuxstbI've disabled the usb check for you again...
01:27:49Shadowarrior13lol, k.
01:28:19linuxstbCan you tell me 1) What USB2D_IDENT says, and 2) What USB_STATUS says when USB is not plugged in, and 3) What USB_STATUS stays with USB.
01:28:34Shadowarrior13I don't think the zip compiled right.
01:28:52Shadowarrior13Leme redownload.
01:29:02linuxstbOK - it was probably still uploading
01:29:14Shadowarrior13Yup, filesize changed.
01:31:34Shadowarrior13....nope. Getting the USB error.
01:32:34linuxstbSorry, let me try again.
01:33:32linuxstbOK, it's there now. This one should be right.... Same URL.
01:34:23 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
01:35:07 Part EYE-WHY
01:35:14 Join XavierGr [0] (
01:35:22linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: A reboot-to-retailos menu option wouldn't actually be that hard - that's why I suggested it earlier. I've done it already in that old usb patch that I think you still use.
01:35:28midkayPaul_The_Nerd, are you here?
01:36:41Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: Yeah, I was calling the "load it from a file using ROLO" as hard, but I think I made that unclear
01:36:43Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Yes.
01:37:19 Join Kensir [0] (
01:37:20midkayPaul_The_Nerd, i just read at the doom patch entry that you had made some changes + it runs on the ipod?
01:37:35Shadowarrior13...there's a rockdoom?
01:37:41warewolfoh god
01:37:48warewolfplease tell me you're kidding
01:37:53Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: It doesn't yet run. kkurbjun changed a struct to optimize some things, and it broke compatibility with the iPod. Last I heard he was looking into it though
01:37:54Shadowarrior13BEcause I may die and go to heaven
01:38:01ashridahnope. someone ported ipoddoom to rockbox
01:38:26Paul_The_Nerdashridah: It's actually not iDoom. It's based on a different port primarily, if I understand correctly, which is why it's broken on the iPod.
01:38:31midkayPaul_The_Nerd, oh, sucks..
01:38:42 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
01:39:13ashridahah even
01:40:30linuxstbShadowarrior13: Any luck?
01:40:40Shadowarrior13It's copying.
01:41:06Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: That doesn't mean it'll never work. There's just some obstacles in the way of getting it up 'n running on iPod still. Most of the changes I made just got it to the "it compiles" point. And a ways into the "it tries to load the wad file" but somewhere in the process is when it dies. At least the current problem is narrowed down to this one struct, I just don't really know how to change it in relation to his changes to ever
01:41:38linuxstbDoes it run in the sim?
01:41:47midkayPaul_The_Nerd, i don't doubt that you guys will get it working :)
01:42:37 Join RotAtoR [0] (
01:43:05Shadowarrior13USB STATUS: 0x552D0(or 2, changes when I move clickwheel)D00
01:43:16Shadowarrior13And with USB plugged in...
01:43:42Shadowarrior130x5f2d0(0r 2 again)d00
01:44:06linuxstbYou have a crazy ipod....
01:44:36 Quit xmixahlx ("blah blah blah")
01:45:51Shadowarrior13Doesn't surprise me :P
01:46:40Fitzsimmonsstupid apple hardware :P
01:46:55linuxstbSo it changes between 0x5f... and 0x55.... when you plug in and remove USB?
01:47:06Shadowarrior13I guess.
01:47:21linuxstbI mean have you done it a few times just to be sure?
01:47:28Shadowarrior13I'll do it some more.
01:47:53Shadowarrior13Wait, no. I don't know where I got the 5 from.
01:48:03Shadowarrior13It stays at 5f
01:48:21Paul_The_NerdIt doesn't change when you plug in USB?
01:48:56Shadowarrior13Which is funny, because USB works in apple os.
01:48:58linuxstbMine ends with 100 without USB and D00 with USB.
01:49:21linuxstbSo that's your problem....
01:49:21Shadowarrior13Mine looks like it's stuck in USB...
01:49:32Shadowarrior13What the fuck?
01:50:14linuxstbWhat does GPIO_B say?
01:50:19Fitzsimmonsthis is going well :D
01:50:35linuxstbAnd with usb?
01:50:41Shadowarrior13Goes to f8 when I plug USB
01:52:46linuxstbOK. In which case I think I can just use GPIO_B instead.
01:54:41Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: Should GPIO_B show USB on all ipods?
01:55:01linuxstbI don't know. Can you test?
01:55:20Paul_The_NerdI was gonna say
01:55:22Paul_The_NerdMine doesn't
01:55:36Paul_The_NerdIt's F0 normally, F9 when backlight is on.
01:55:51linuxstbOK, I'll just change it for the video then.
01:55:56Paul_The_NerdOh, F8 when USB in, okay
01:57:27Paul_The_NerdF0/F8 for USB in, F1/F9 for USB out
01:59:08Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: It works, I'd just plugged in the USB while holding Menu before entering the menu, then unplugged it. Which didn't cause any change, heh.
02:04:20linuxstbOK. But the existing usb detection seems fine on every ipod apart from Shadowarrior13's... So I'll just change it for the 5g.
02:04:47 Quit Strath (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:04:56Paul_The_NerdSeems good. Don't fix what isn't broken, 'eh?
02:05:39 Join Strath [0] (
02:06:32imphasingI can get a fresh build onto my ipod in ~5 seconds
02:06:54imphasing<3 to the zip system
02:07:38 Join Magnum616 [0] (
02:08:39imphasinglinuxstb: I got rid of the corrupted pixels, and I still get ~100fps on test_fps
02:08:48josh_wow, imphasing, how?
02:09:04Shadowarrior13Bleeding Edge build :P
02:09:06linuxstbAnd starfield?
02:09:17Shadowarrior13<3 starfield
02:09:31imphasingusing your asm updater, and changing how the frame buffer gets sent to it
02:09:39imphasingYeah, starfield still only gets 23fps..
02:10:17imphasingI'm still messing with it though
02:10:48linuxstbWith the CVS driver, I'm getting 54fps in test_fps, and about 35fps in starfield.
02:11:11imphasingIt seems like it's using more cpu than before, becuase if it needs to do calculations at the same time, it slows down
02:11:26josh_imphasing: yep, my driver doesn't yield()
02:11:29josh_the other one does
02:11:34linuxstbI can't believe you're getting 100fps in test_fps. If the finishup code needs 14ms, then that implies a maximum fps of 71fps
02:12:46imphasingSince it's not yielding, it's just sucking all the cpu, so it's going to slow down dramatically if there's other work to be done
02:13:36Magnum616holy hell 100 fps...
02:13:44imphasingNot really.
02:13:49imphasingThat's just a static refresh rate
02:13:56imphasingWith it not doing anything besides sitting there
02:13:59Magnum616better than the 54 we're getting now
02:15:05Magnum616is anyone doing this stuff with iPodLinux...
02:15:12imphasingHis 54 is better than my 100
02:15:28imphasingbecuase he's slowing it down in order to be able to execute other things at the same time
02:15:34Magnum616i see
02:15:45Magnum616i noticed the 23 fps vs 35 fps in starfield
02:16:56linuxstbShadowarrior13: That USB change is now in CVS, so you should be able to use the next bleeding edge build...
02:17:14Shadowarrior13*goes to get*
02:17:27linuxstbYou'll have to wait 30 minutes or so...
02:17:30 Join Zoide777 [0] (
02:17:36linuxstbBut I'll upload another zip now.
02:17:45 Quit quobl (SendQ exceeded)
02:18:01Zoide777could that slowing down concept be applied to scrolling through files so that the music doesn't skip?
02:18:06Paul_The_NerdQuestion: I read somewhere that the iPod could potentially USB host/master/whatever. Does anyone here know?
02:18:25imphasingWhoa...not calling lcd_bcm_finishup(); really slows it down
02:18:37imphasingI'm only getting 54 in test_fps now
02:19:55linuxstbimphasing: Josh's function does the lcd_bcm_finishup() itself - you shouldn't need to call it. Which is why I think something odd is happening when you are calling it as well.
02:20:04imphasingYeah, you must be right..
02:20:18linuxstbIf you look at my CVS code, it now does the same as Josh's asm version - but in C.
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02:24:30imphasingin lcd_bmc_read32, why are you writing the address as 2 16 bit words?
02:24:36imphasingWhy not a single 32bit?
02:24:56 Quit JoeBorn ("")
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02:26:04linuxstbBecause they are both writes to the same address.
02:26:10linuxstbIt's a 16-bit register.
02:26:23imphasingWhat processor on the ipod has 16 bit registers?
02:27:16linuxstbThe communication between the PP and BCM chips is obviously on a 16-bit bus - you can see it throughout the LCD code.
02:27:48imphasingI thought they would have used a 32 bit bus..
02:28:14linuxstbIt's a tiny embedded device...
02:28:28imphasingWell yeah..
02:28:39imphasingBut I don't know much about the ipod's hardware
02:29:10 Quit Kensir (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:32:02jaebirdI want a 64-bit processor :)
02:32:09imphasingIck, not me
02:32:41 Quit Magnum616 ()
02:33:15jaebirdthen do all the programming in a high level language like c# or java
02:33:35jaebirdthe battery would last exactly 3 min :)
02:33:47imphasingIn the words of John Carmac, Low level programming is good for the soul.
02:34:23 Quit yeahx_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:34:24 Quit Fuiou5 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:34:24jaebirdi did my first malloc in 10 years the other day!
02:34:25josh_Indeed it is. Now go write some asm.
02:34:29josh_(@ imphasing)
02:34:37imphasingI'm learning.
02:34:41 Join Furious_G [0] (
02:34:49linuxstbimphasing: In test_fps, what fps do you get for the second (1/4 screen) test?
02:34:50imphasingRight now, I'm scrimping all the cycles I can out of the LCD driver
02:34:56imphasingIt never got to that..
02:35:16imphasingI waited for a while, and it never did it
02:35:27linuxstbThat means the lcd updates aren't working reliably.
02:35:37imphasingI figured my code was shoddy
02:36:15Shadowarrior13linuxstb: Tried a new bleeding edge build, and I get a "rockbox error -1" whenever it tries to load it, and goes to the apple os.
02:37:19imphasingI scrimped some cycles out of that lcd driver, lets see if there's an improvement..
02:37:23imphasingI'm using the C one now
02:37:25linuxstbShadowarrior13: That means it couldn't find the rockbox.ipod file.
02:37:29jaebirdlinuxstb: I know you've been giving the 5g alot of love lately...have you had a chance to look at the m4a file i sent?
02:37:34josh_imphasing: how'd you scrimp the cycles?
02:37:46linuxstbjaebird: No, not yet.
02:37:55imphasingThere were a few places where variables were being assigned when they didn't need to be..
02:37:57imphasingI think.
02:38:01imphasingEither that, or I made it more complex.
02:38:10Shadowarrior13lol, it isn't there XD
02:38:11imphasingIt's a learning process.
02:38:24linuxstbShadowarrior13: That's what the bootloader thought...
02:38:37Shadowarrior13The bootloader was right :P
02:39:08jaebirdlinuxstb: I might have some time this weekend, what should i look for, do you know of a spec or just google for it.
02:39:09Shadowarrior13Hmm, it did it again.
02:39:24imphasinglinuxstb: How many fps do you get for 1:1 and 1:4 currently?
02:39:44linuxstbThe CVS code gives 54.0 and 84.5
02:39:53imphasingI made it worse.
02:42:10linuxstbjaebird: No, I don't know any specs, but libmp4ff is probably a good reference.
02:42:18Shadowarrior13How fast are the bleeding edge builds generated?
02:42:28imphasingWhat's the gcc option for compiling to asm?
02:42:38linuxstbShadowarrior13: It should say at the bottom of the table
02:42:50Shadowarrior13No, I mean like, how fast in response to source changes? :P
02:42:57linuxstbEvery minute.
02:43:07Shadowarrior13...I'm still getting a usb error >.<
02:43:13 Quit imphasing (Remote closed the connection)
02:43:46linuxstbThat's because it hasn't finished building... Check the top line of the build table.
02:43:52Shadowarrior13Oh, lol.
02:44:07linuxstbIf you click on the date/time, then it will tell you what changes are in that build.
02:44:09 Join imphasing [0] (
02:44:16Shadowarrior13I get it now :P
02:47:04josh_17:42 < imphasing> What's the gcc option for compiling to asm?
02:47:06josh_imphasing: -S
02:47:29imphasingYeah, I got it.
02:48:57 Quit godzirra (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:50:47Zoide777hmm... I can't download from CVS
02:51:10Zoide777it rejects "access to /cvsroot/rockbox for user username"
02:51:16Zoide777I just copy/pasted from the instructions on the website
02:51:36 Quit Fitzsimmons (Remote closed the connection)
02:51:42josh_Zoide777: you copied the wrong instructions
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02:52:12ashridahZoide777: use cvs login again, and use 'anonymous' and press enter for the password, iirc
02:52:17Zoide777i just noticed
02:53:01*imphasing sighs
02:53:09imphasingLooks like I'm over my head with this driver
02:53:14imphasingI don't see anything I can do..
02:53:24imphasingIt seems fairly optimized, from a C standpoint.
02:53:56linuxstbYes, it's not worth spending any more time on it IMO. The main point is that it is not the bottleneck any more.
02:54:28Zoide777have you guys tried looking at the skips-while-scrolling issue? I think it applies to all targets, doesn't it?
02:54:36 Join lostlogic [0] (
02:54:53ashridahZoide777: thought someone'd fixed that
02:55:50Zoide777ashridah: i'll try out the latest from cvs, but i'm pretty sure it's still broken
02:56:28linuxstbIt doesn't apply to all targets - just ipods.
02:56:51linuxstbAnd no, it hasn't really been looked at yet.
02:57:29Zoide777linuxstb: ah ok
02:58:04 Join pyro [0] (
02:58:16linuxstbThe clickwheel generates an interrupt on every movement, so if you're scrolling quickly, it generates a lot of interrupts. But I haven't thought about solutions.
02:58:57Paul_The_NerdHow fast is "quickly"
02:59:03ashridahlinuxstb: once you get the first one, poll instead until a timeout occurs?
02:59:20 Quit darkless (Client Quit)
02:59:24linuxstbashridah: I was just thinking something similar. But preglow is the button person.
02:59:40linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: You don't have to scroll very fast for it to stop playback.
02:59:49Zoide777not at all
03:00:10Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: Is it just scrolling through menus, or any use of the scroll wheel?
03:00:21linuxstbI'm guessing it's use of the scrollwheel
03:00:22Zoide777and after a while i guess it just starves the sound buffer or something b/c it can skip w/ the shortest movement
03:00:42Zoide777Paul_The_Nerd: I think it's just for the songs list (since it's long enough?)
03:00:50imphasingOn that bouncing text app, if you scroll the wheel, it makes it go faster..
03:01:31Zoide777imphasing: that's so freaky. maybe there's this huge speed potential that's untapped right now and is somehow related to that :P
03:03:02Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: Ah, got it. Doesn't seem to happen in just volume adjustments for me, and I have to work pretty hard to get it to happen in the menus with my music, which is I guess why I hadn't encountered it yet.
03:03:39linuxstbAs I said, I haven't really investigated it, so I'm just guessing at what's going on.
03:03:43Zoide777Paul_The_Nerd: why ipod do you have?
03:03:57Paul_The_NerdZoide777: Nano.
03:04:15Shadowarrior13The bitch of ipods XD
03:04:34Paul_The_NerdI dunno. To *me* it's the only one worth owning. But that's just me, and a different topic entirely
03:04:55Paul_The_NerdZoide777: Though it's not which iPod I have, but the fact that a lot of my music is OGG. If I try it in an equivalent bitrate MP3, I can trigger it much more easily.
03:05:28Paul_The_NerdShadowarrior13: I have an iHP-120. The *only* HD based MP3 player I'd really consider upgrading to is an 140.
03:07:09Shadowarrior13Time to test the new build///
03:07:23Shadowarrior13Maybe even ...
03:07:56 Quit Thus0 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:08:14 Quit hardeep ("My damn controlling terminal disappeared!")
03:08:57Shadowarrior13The .rockbox folder on my ipod corrupted, and Ican't delete
03:09:01Shadowarrior13I can't delete it*
03:09:22Shadowarrior13Windows suggestions?
03:09:30imphasingtry a hammer
03:09:34lostlogicthat is a windows suggestion
03:09:41Shadowarrior13Oh, k.
03:09:42lostlogicfsck is *nix
03:10:45Shadowarrior13Now, what would happen if I ran it with /f, would anything be deleted?
03:11:37Shadowarrior13Because there's errors.
03:13:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:13:09Paul_The_NerdBe back shortly
03:13:09 Part Paul_The_Nerd
03:13:19Shadowarrior13Seriously, anyone?
03:14:05ashridahShadowarrior13: my guess would be that it'd fix it
03:15:15Shadowarrior13Ok, that didn't fix it one bit.
03:15:38Shadowarrior13I'll just rename it and deal with it later.
03:15:42ashridahokay, how do you know the directory is corrupted?
03:15:54Shadowarrior13Because chkdsk said it was corrupted, as well as windows? :P
03:16:01Zoide777Paul_The_Nerd: But I thought that OGG was harder on the CPU?
03:16:15Shadowarrior13Paul is teh gone
03:16:26Zoide777oh, thanks for letting me know!
03:16:27jaebirdlinuxstb: does the DEBUGF statement work in demux.c of the libmp4a
03:16:30Zoide777didn't want to wait forever
03:16:31ashridahShadowarrior13: and it didn't offer to fix it?
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03:16:42Shadowarrior13It said run with /f to fix it.
03:16:44Shadowarrior13Which I did.
03:16:47Shadowarrior13Which it didn't fix.
03:17:35ashridahwell, what about the gui version of chkdsk. right click on the icon for the drive in my computer, go to properties, tools, check now
03:17:43 Quit Zoide777 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
03:18:08ashridah(probably runs the exact same utility in the end, mind you)
03:18:37linuxstbjaebird: It should do.
03:18:37imphasingrockbox looks for linux.bin when you hold rewind, right? (on the ipod)
03:18:44linuxstbNo, PLAY
03:19:25imphasingWoo, a kernel!
03:20:04imphasingAugh, it looks for the root partition at hda3..
03:20:35Paul_The_Nerdimphasing: Do you have an ext2 partition for it?
03:21:03imphasingjust the boot and fat partitions
03:21:11imphasingI wanted to set it up on the fat parittion
03:21:15imphasinger, partition
03:21:29 Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:21:59Paul_The_Nerdimphasing: iPodLinux can be launched from the fat32 partition, but it requires its filesystem to exist in an ext2 partition at hda3
03:22:12jaebirdwhat does it do ? :)
03:22:20imphasing"kernel panic"
03:22:40imphasingI guess I need to repartition then..
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03:24:58linuxstbjaebird: ?
03:25:22jaebirdlinuxstb: what does the DEBUGF statement do?
03:25:35linuxstbIt works like printf - but only in the sim.
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03:25:44jaebirdah..only in sim. Thanks looks like some of the extra metadata iTMS puts in for artist and coverart is causing the problem.
03:26:48linuxstbI've got a track from iTMS, and that's fine. It's a couple of years old though.
03:27:03jaebirdit was added from iTMS v4
03:27:19jaebirdunknown chunk id
03:27:33jaebirdinside the moov
03:27:37linuxstbI've no idea about iTMS versions. My track does have cover art though.
03:28:50jaebirdit don't think this will be hard to fix
03:29:09linuxstbHopefully not.
03:29:17linuxstbTime for bed. Goodnight.
03:29:20jaebirdi'm going to try some stuff here...i'm doing this in the origianl alac_decoder though, easier for my setup
03:30:18linuxstbYou could always write a test application using libm4a
03:30:30linuxstbThat could be useful for future problem files.
03:30:43jaebirdyeah...i might do that
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04:20:58imphasingWoo, iPL, rockbox, and retailos living in harmony..
04:21:03imphasingIt's a good thing.
04:21:05Shadowarrior13You got it?
04:21:08Shadowarrior13Dude, how?
04:21:13Shadowarrior13And was it easy? :P
04:21:15imphasingI'm using the rockbox bootloader
04:21:21josh_I'm using ipodloader2
04:21:23imphasingwith the kernel on the fat partition
04:21:30josh_with the kernel on the ext2 partition
04:21:43imphasingI could have used ipodloader2, but I'd have to re-write my boot partition -again-
04:21:46Shadowarrior13What's your partition table looking like?
04:22:11imphasingmy boot partition, my data partition, then my linux partition..
04:22:35Shadowarrior13Sizes, formats, etc :P
04:23:04imphasing80mb boot partition, type 0
04:23:22imphasing~24gb data partition, type fat
04:23:35imphasing200mb linux partition, type ext2
04:23:40imphasingsomething like that..
04:23:53Shadowarrior13If only linux would work on my dell >.<
04:23:58 Quit ashridah (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:24:00imphasingIt's easier to install iPL, then rockbox
04:24:06lostlogicw00t! travel to devcon booked!
04:24:06imphasingbecuase the partitions are all set up
04:24:17imphasingjust use the windows installer, and then install rockbox..
04:24:31Shadowarrior13...there's no windows installer for the 5g...
04:25:07imphasingoh yeah
04:25:08imphasingyou have a 5G
04:25:20Shadowarrior13You suck >.<'re screwed then
04:25:29imphasingjust boot up a live cd
04:25:37Shadowarrior13That's what doesn't work.
04:25:42Shadowarrior13As well as a debian install cd.
04:25:51Shadowarrior13It's really retarded.
04:26:33 Join ashridah [0] (
04:28:09pyroNon-dev question. Not sure if it's OK to ask here. How do I know if the boot loader installed correctly? The firwmare version changed, but no Rockbox kernel loading. Not sure if it's the bootloader or kernel?
04:28:46Shadowarrior13Your firmware version changed?
04:29:04Shadowarrior13Did you get a binary from ipw?
04:29:59pyrowent from 1.03US to 1.29EU. IPW?
04:30:15Shadowarrior13If you got the firmware binary directly from your ipod, it shouldnt've changed.
04:30:22Shadowarrior13Ipod Wizard.
04:31:13pyroNo. This is for a IRiver H300. (Nothing to do with what you were talking about before). I got it from Downloads / Builds / H300
04:31:27Sacroyou should have the US firmware instead of EU
04:31:34Shadowarrior13I wouldn't know about that :P
04:31:46pyroNo, Firmware patched doesn't recognize or support it
04:31:56Paul_The_NerdSacro: No, not the US
04:31:59Sacrooh, ok
04:32:05Paul_The_NerdSacro: US fw doesn't work yet.
04:32:16Sacrowell im running 1.29EU with rockbox fine, but then im in the UK
04:32:22Paul_The_Nerdpyro: Do you have the file rockbox.iriver and the folder .rockbox on your H300?
04:32:29pyroI'll try the procedure again tommorow. My battery is somewhat dead and dont' have the charger tonight.
04:32:31pyroPaul: yes
04:32:45Paul_The_Nerdpyro: My best guess is you somehow updated to non-patched FW then
04:33:23pyroYeah, something is weird. THe firmware defiantly did update though. I'll try again tomorrow
04:33:35 Quit Sacro (Remote closed the connection)
04:35:10Paul_The_Nerdyeah, flashing fw without line power isn't always the best plan.
04:35:45pyroyeah, I know : ) I still have at least one bar left. But figured I'd play it safe considering something went wrong.
04:36:21Paul_The_NerdGood plan. Safe is good.
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04:42:35pyroWell this might suck, I can't get the USB to access the drive. It keep going to the "Iriver Charging" screen
04:43:31pyronevermind - I'm an idiot. EU firmware is slightly different. I'll shut up till tomorrow :p
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04:52:31manhattandoes anyone know if there is any way to complete erase all data including the firmware from a iSudio U3?
04:53:17manhattanit refuses to show my pictures! And I contacted cowon and they asked me to send them my picture, and they said it worked for them!
04:54:31imphasingI just re-built a iPL kernel, and when I try to load it with the rockbox bootloader, it says "loading linux", then it just goes back to rockbox..
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04:59:17Paul_The_Nerdimphasing: You have the iPL kernel named linux.bin in your fat32 partition, right?
04:59:26imphasingI think I'm missing something..
04:59:38imphasingI just built the kernel, and I have a nice "linux" file
04:59:48imphasingdo I need to do something to make it into an image?
05:00:05imphasingI just renamed it and moved it to the ipod as linux.bin
05:00:13imphasingit used to work just fine before I rebuilt it
05:00:16Paul_The_NerdI know that if you download the kernel from the website it's some long name .bin
05:00:29Paul_The_NerdI've never tried building theirs myself
05:00:40imphasingthere must be something I have to do then..
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05:01:47Paul_The_Nerd <−−- This about what you did?
05:02:45imphasinger, never mind
05:02:48imphasingI used the wrong image
05:02:50imphasingand yeah
05:05:12imphasingAh, works now
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05:05:24Shadowarrior13You arrogant bastard.
05:06:05ArrogantI know.
05:06:23ArrogantI don't know why I'm still on this channel, I took Rockbox off my iPod :(
05:06:54Paul_The_NerdWhy'd you do that, out of curiosity?
05:07:12ArrogantEh, my files are organized flat
05:07:20ArrogantAnd I'd much rather browse via tags
05:07:29ArrogantI use foo_pod so I don't have to suffer with iTunes
05:07:41Shadowarrior13It's not like I use rockbox for the music playback
05:07:45ArrogantI have something like 3000 songs
05:08:03Shadowarrior13I use it for the games and programs :P
05:08:08ArrogantAnd I didn't really have any use for it otherwise, except STARFIELD
05:08:18ArrogantBecause the iPod controls really aren't very good for playing the games
05:08:41ArrogantAnd anything requiring letter entry took way too much time for me to bother
05:08:45Shadowarrior13They work fine for me :P
05:08:52*Arrogant shrugs
05:09:00Shadowarrior13Bejewelled, snake, etc
05:09:06Shadowarrior13Great for playing in class
05:09:09ArrogantThey work but I think they're awkward
05:09:15ArrogantBesides, I have a TI-89 for games
05:09:17ArrogantIn class.
05:09:18ArrogantAnd my DS.
05:09:24Paul_The_NerdMan, and see the reason I was interested in it originally was the gapless and the additional format support.
05:10:05ArrogantWell, the gapless is cool and the additional format support is nice
05:10:10ArrogantBut I just got done transcoding all of my songs.
05:10:14ArrogantSo it no longer matters to me.
05:10:15Shadowarrior13I have a PSP, and my DS. The ipod is more compact :P
05:10:39ArrogantI use iPod for media, DS for games.
05:10:50ArrogantiPod may be more compact but DS games are better :P
05:10:58Shadowarrior13PSP games own DS games :P
05:10:59Paul_The_NerdWhen you say "transcoding" I *hope* you mean from a lossless format to like, MP3
05:11:03imphasingI got into it for the low level programming experience.
05:11:06ArrogantYes Paul
05:11:17Paul_The_NerdShadowarrior13: PSP games are like, 90% ports from PSX/PS2 games.
05:11:24Shadowarrior13They still pwn
05:11:34Shadowarrior13Not to mention the homebrew.
05:11:39Paul_The_NerdThey're the exact same stuff I've already played.
05:11:46Shadowarrior13Meh :P
05:11:56*Paul_The_Nerd is very hard to impress with games anyway.
05:12:01Shadowarrior13I mostly use mine for the homebrew, though tokobots is awesome.
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05:14:17Paul_The_NerdI dunno, I guess since my first MP3 player didn't require any program to use it, the whole idea of having to have special software on a computer to use it kinda drives me nuts. Only reason I got an iPod was I knew how far Rockbox had come for it at the time, so I felt fairly certain it'd get done.
05:14:53Arrogant_Well, I think that using "special software" is worth it if it doesn't suck.
05:14:58Arrogant_iTunes sucks.
05:15:08Arrogant_It doesn't even know how to remove dead entries from its database.
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05:15:36Fitzsimmonsat least irivers give you the option
05:15:46Paul_The_NerdSee, I don't like *having* to use any software
05:15:53Arrogant_foo_pod is pretty awesome.
05:15:54Paul_The_NerdIt's like saying "Yeah, but the handcuffs are made of GOLD"
05:16:19Paul_The_Nerd'sides, Rockbox has its own database, and pretty soon it'll be able to generate it itself.
05:16:33Arrogant_Once Rockbox gets that I might reconsider
05:16:33BHSPitLappyPaul_The_Nerd: ever get rockdoom tweaked for the ipod?
05:16:51Arrogant_But at the moment, I don't want to wade through 3000 files.
05:16:58Shadowarrior13<3 doom
05:17:05Fitzsimmonsrockbox has a DB?
05:17:19Arrogant_Foobar has a tag database and I can't live without it.
05:17:21Paul_The_NerdBHSPitLappy: I'm kinda depending on KK at the moment. He made some changes taken from another source port, and they're what broke it, because of how it changes some structures. And I don't know where all of them are.
05:17:41Paul_The_NerdFitzsimmons: It's kinda dusty at the moment, and I believe only supports ID3 tagges MP3s, and OGGs.
05:17:53Paul_The_NerdArrogant_: Wade through 3000 files?
05:18:07FitzsimmonsPaul_The_Nerd: how do I generate it?
05:18:09Arrogant_Because they're not organized into directories.
05:19:08Paul_The_NerdArrogant_: You could fix that in like, an overnight run of any decent tag and rename program though. Heck, I think even Foobar can do it.
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05:19:24Paul_The_NerdiPod's built in OS drives me the MOST nuts though because of its improper handling of VBR MP3s
05:19:30ArrogantFoobar can do it.
05:19:58ArrogantBut see, I don't want to do it anyway
05:20:13Paul_The_NerdFitzsimmons: use the JAVA version, but I'm not 100% sure the database works on iPod yet. In fact I suspect it probably wont'.
05:20:25Shadowarrior13It always freezes on mine.
05:20:41Shadowarrior13I try to view the db, and it locks up.
05:20:45FitzsimmonsPaul_The_Nerd: how about iriver?
05:21:01Paul_The_NerdFitzsimmons: I have used it in the past on the h120
05:21:09Fitzsimmonsgreat, that's what I've got
05:21:16Fitzsimmonswhat's wrong with the perl version?
05:21:30Paul_The_NerdIt's older. The java version is just the newer version
05:21:48Fitzsimmonshm, okay.
05:21:53Paul_The_NerdArrogant: See, handcuffs + iPod's software doesn't play all of my MP3s == no way to it.
05:22:15ArrogantI don't think I have any VBR mp3's.
05:22:31ArrogantBecause I haven't noticed any problems.
05:24:22Paul_The_NerdArrogant: It requires a pretty decent bitrate jump in the file too, and I know the bug's only been *confirmed* on Minis and Nanos, though I saw one post mention they encountered it with some of the test files on their 4g. But I have it in several of my songs. It's part of their power saving, they don't increase the CPU in time for the bitrate spike to decode fast enough, apparently. At least, according to what I've read about it.
05:24:39ArrogantI have a 5g.
05:25:09*Paul_The_Nerd shrugs.
05:25:16Paul_The_NerdYou also said you don't think yours are vbr
05:25:25Paul_The_NerdThough it kinda astonishes me that you transcoded them and don't know to what.
05:26:13ArrogantLAME −−alt-preset standard
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05:26:42Paul_The_NerdThen they're vbr.
05:26:45ArrogantThat IS VBR.
05:26:58Paul_The_NerdBut as I said, it only happens on some songs.
05:26:58ArrogantStill, no problems thus far
05:27:40Paul_The_NerdThe bigger thing for me is your shiny gold handcuffs though. I like being able to go to my friend's house, and share.
05:27:53ArrogantFoobar2000 on my iPod.
05:28:09ArrogantLoad my playlist, transfer songs.
05:28:17ArrogantThat is, if I could get it to work!
05:28:17Paul_The_NerdYou assume that he uses windows.
05:28:20ArrogantThere is a bug.
05:28:26ArrogantYamiPod if he doesn't.
05:28:43*Paul_The_Nerd shrugs
05:28:48Paul_The_NerdOr, as it is now, I can just drag 'n drop
05:29:07ArrogantBut your tag database is broken.
05:29:23Fitzsimmonsmass storage ftw. :)
05:29:36Paul_The_NerdI don't use a tag database, though.
05:29:47ArrogantFine for you
05:30:00ArrogantI pretty much require it
05:30:14ArrogantBecause I use it
05:30:29ArrogantArtist > The Beatles > All
05:30:32Paul_The_NerdThat's a circular definition though.
05:30:33ArrogantAlbums > Devil May Cry OSt
05:30:44ArrogantIf I didn't have it, it would be a pain.
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05:30:58*Paul_The_Nerd shrugs
05:30:59ArrogantArtist > Tetsuya Shibata > Devil May Cry OST
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05:31:19ArrogantGenre as well.
05:31:21 Part ModernExecutive
05:31:33Paul_The_NerdI've never felt the need to use the genre setting.
05:31:40Paul_The_NerdBut, that's me.
05:31:41ArrogantAlso, iPods can play videos.
05:32:01ArrogantYou know.
05:32:15Paul_The_NerdYeah, but that's not exactly something you *lose* by using Rockbox for your music playback.
05:32:17ArrogantIt really is a pain in the ass to play videos on the iPod
05:32:27ArrogantI suppose Rockbox would make that better, actually.
05:32:32Paul_The_NerdNot so much
05:32:39Paul_The_NerdBut you can still boot into Apple OS to play the video.
05:32:51ArrogantIt is a pain in the ass to add them, I should say.
05:33:04ArrogantUnless YamiPod can do it, I haven't checked.
05:33:04*Paul_The_Nerd shrugs
05:33:11ArrogantiTunes requires an auto-update to add videos.
05:33:15Paul_The_NerdLet me guess, you still have to use iTunes right now?
05:33:24ArrogantFor videos, yes.
05:33:28Paul_The_NerdAnd photos?
05:33:29ArrogantAnd photos.
05:33:33ArrogantNeither of which I use.
05:33:33Shadowarrior13An auto update on the ipod?
05:33:41Paul_The_NerdShadowarrior13: Autosync, I imagine
05:33:42Shadowarrior13Or iTunes itself?
05:33:46ArrogantShadowarrior13, auto-sync
05:33:52Shadowarrior13You can change it to manual...
05:33:58ArrogantNot for videos, as far as I can tell
05:34:06Shadowarrior13I manually transfer my videos.
05:34:10ArrogantIf so, I haven't been able to do it
05:34:20Shadowarrior13It's not hard :P
05:35:34ArrogantOh, right.
05:35:44ArrogantIt can't transfer videos until the music is done if you have auto-sync.
05:35:49ArrogantThat was what was frustrating.
05:36:00Shadowarrior13Then don't use auto-sync :P
05:36:11Arrogantfoo_pod has this nasty bug where it adds the songs to the Movies list
05:36:13ArrogantI don't know wh.
05:36:18Shadowarrior13It's just as easy to click and drag "All" to your iPod.
05:36:24Shadowarrior13Yeah, sharepod does that too.
05:36:39Arrogantfoo_pod doesn't chop up my tags though
05:36:54Shadowarrior13Neither does sharepod :P
05:37:04ArrogantI mean, compared to iTunes
05:37:44ArrogantiTunes does things like make "Several Species Of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together In A Cave And Grooving With A Pict" to "Several Species of Small Furr" or something
05:38:12Shadowarrior13Never did that to my shit.
05:38:28ArrogantI don't know why it does it to mine then
05:38:40Shadowarrior13Maybe it just doesn't like you.
05:38:46ArrogantI imagine it doesn't
05:39:18ArrogantI might also mention that i don't care much for Rockbox's interface
05:40:37Paul_The_NerdWhat, the text based menus?
05:41:57ArrogantWell, returning from the Now Playing to the music folder
05:42:05ArrogantI can't even remember how to do that right now
05:42:19Shadowarrior13Hit action.
05:42:30ArrogantThe Apple firmware seemed more user friendly is all.
05:42:30Shadowarrior13Don't hold it.
05:43:04Paul_The_NerdMan, when I first tried using the apple software I hated it. Seemed like back should be back, not menu.
05:43:10Paul_The_NerdIt's all a matter of what you're used to.
05:43:17ArrogantI don't think that Menu should open preferences since they're not really something I modify all the time.
05:43:25Paul_The_NerdMenu opens the Menu
05:43:52Shadowarrior13Yeah, confused the hell out of me when I got a mini randomly for christmas.
05:43:56ArrogantCertainly it should probably say Back instead, but yeah.
05:44:34Paul_The_NerdSo, it's really button assignments that bother you, rather than the interface itself?
05:44:55ArrogantNo, that's just part of it.
05:45:18ArrogantOn the iPod, everything is very much oriented to the top of the screen.
05:45:38ArrogantI tried different themes and such
05:45:54Paul_The_NerdWait, are you talking about the While Playing Screen now?
05:45:58ArrogantBut they all leave a lot of screen space empty
05:46:22ArrogantAt the moment yes
05:46:33Paul_The_NerdBecause other than album art you can fully recreate an iPod one.
05:46:39ArrogantI understand this is probably due to the change in resolution
05:47:00Paul_The_NerdIt's pretty much entirely customizable.
05:47:46ArrogantI'd like to not have to
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05:48:10Paul_The_NerdWell, it's not like they can include WPSes to suit every person's preferences.
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05:48:24ArrogantNow I don't want to seem like I'm lodging STUPID COMPLAINTS because I'm not, I can see why/how etc. I'm just explaining why I'm not using it.
05:48:29ArrogantBecause you asked.
05:48:44ArrogantI'll play around with it some more
05:48:48*Paul_The_Nerd shrugs
05:48:50ArrogantIt is easy to put it back on at any time
05:49:13Paul_The_NerdIf you don't like it, don't use it. I was just curious why you don't.
05:49:16Shadowarrior13Took me 3 minutes starting from scratch/.
05:49:25imphasingTo do?
05:49:44ArrogantI'll probably try it once more development has gone into the port
05:49:55ArrogantThings are a bit buggy all around
05:49:56Paul_The_NerdThere's also never really a reason to remove the bootloader.
05:50:05Paul_The_NerdArrogant: What sort of bugs have you come across?
05:50:15ArrogantPaul_The_Nerd, the iPod does power off after a while
05:50:17Shadowarrior13Yes there is, it gets terribly annoying when it's rebooting :P
05:50:20ArrogantNot just sleep mode
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05:50:48Paul_The_NerdWhat, like listening to music?
05:51:03ArrogantPaul_The_Nerd, it seems when shutting down rockbox, it doesn't clear the screen
05:51:22ArrogantSo I have to reboot into Apple firmware to put it away
05:51:36Paul_The_NerdYour nintendo DS doesn't clear the screen either
05:52:05Paul_The_NerdThat's not so much a "bug"
05:52:24ArrogantI don't see why Apple doesn't do it then
05:52:26Paul_The_NerdBut I'm curious, what do you mean that it shuts down?
05:52:34Arrogant[ Shutting down ]
05:52:46Paul_The_NerdI mean, does it randomly turn off in use?
05:52:51Shadowarrior13What the hell?
05:52:55Shadowarrior13Disk check finished...
05:53:02Paul_The_NerdOr are you talking about the fact that it actually turns off, rather than sleeping, to save battery.
05:53:04Shadowarrior13And a broken directory was turned into a file 0_o
05:53:06ArrogantOh. No. I mean when I intentionally do it.
05:53:26Paul_The_NerdAnd that's a *bug* that it shuts down when you tell it to?
05:53:45ArrogantNo. We're talking about the screen
05:53:59ArrogantLeaves residual images on after power off
05:54:05ArrogantI don't know if they FADE AWAY or something but
05:54:09ArrogantI haven't left them there to find out
05:54:15Paul_The_NerdThey do fade away
05:54:26Paul_The_NerdApple clears the LCD, and then goes into Sleep
05:54:30Paul_The_NerdRockbox just turns everything off.
05:54:52ArrogantRockbox has a sleep feature, right?
05:55:02ArrogantI thought I saw one.
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05:55:12Paul_The_NerdIt has a "Sleep Timer"
05:55:16Paul_The_NerdMaybe you saw that
05:55:29ArrogantApple's Sleep mode is much more appealing to me.
05:55:42Paul_The_NerdBecause it spends 12 hours slowly eating battery when you're not using it?
05:55:46Shadowarrior13Yeah, rockbox needs to be able to sleep.
05:56:06ArrogantI plug the iPod in often enough
05:56:33BHSPitMonkeyhey. did JdGordon ever finish his color picker?
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05:58:37Paul_The_NerdOdd. I dunno, I guess we're just very different sorts of people. I prefer flexibility and functionality, and you prefer the ability to sit back and left the software handle things.
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05:59:44ArrogantPaul_The_Nerd, at least in the case of my music.
05:59:58ArrogantOf course, gaps bug me.
06:00:14ArrogantThat's really the biggest thing I'd fix with the iPod's firmware.
06:01:18Paul_The_NerdSee, I really like replaygain, though apple has their "sound check" thing. And having a real equalizer is nice too.
06:02:34ArrogantI'll keep checking in with Rockbox though
06:02:56ArrogantBesides. I might be able to edit it to suit my wants later on.
06:03:17bakavicI was wondering, is booting from power off is pretty fast for rockbox as compared to booting with apple OS?
06:03:53ArrogantYes it is
06:03:56ArrogantMuch faster
06:03:58bakavicOf course, it probably isn''t as fast as booting up from sleep mode, i guess
06:04:07Paul_The_NerdIt's not as fast as booting up from sleep mode
06:04:31ArrogantPlus sleep mode goes to the menu you were last in.
06:04:48Paul_The_NerdBut, it's possible to completely remove AppleOS from your ipod, at which point the boot time increases even more. Though, I wouldn't necessarily go this path. ;-)
06:05:23Paul_The_NerdNah what?
06:05:30ArrogantI wouldn't do it either.
06:05:39ArrogantEven if I liked Rockbox more
06:05:51ArrogantBecause I doubt Rockbox will ever play videos
06:05:59Paul_The_NerdThe idea was to actually put Apple_OS into a .bin file and you could load it from the Fat32 partition during boot, but it wasn't part of the boot process any more.
06:06:15Paul_The_NerdAnd, Rockbox has played videos on previous targets, so I don't know why you doubt it ever will
06:06:21ArrogantHas it really?
06:06:28ArrogantI thought it was a music thing only.
06:06:34Paul_The_NerdMusic is the primary focus
06:06:41ArrogantWell then.
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06:06:44bakavicwould it be able to use the broadcom chip?
06:06:49ArrogantMaybe more of my videos will actually play then
06:06:49Paul_The_NerdI mean, there's a Jpeg viewer plugin for images, there's bejewelled.
06:07:02Paul_The_Nerdbakavic: It depends on how much success anyone has reverse engineering it.
06:07:06ArrogantThe iPod's video capabilities are pretty bad.
06:07:15Arrogantmp4 only.
06:07:15Paul_The_NerdArrogant: What do you judge this off of?
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06:07:30Paul_The_NerdOh, you mean the Apple OS's video capabilities are pretty bad.
06:07:42ArrogantThe ipod's default video capabilities.
06:08:00bakavicI thought the video on the 5g was pretty good - what's bad about it?
06:08:05Paul_The_NerdYeah, but saying "The ipod's" makes it sound like you're talking about the hardware
06:08:17ArrogantConverting to mp4 is a pain
06:08:30ArrogantVideo conversions take a lot longer
06:08:53ArrogantAnd I see mp4 videos in... iTunes and Google Videos
06:08:56ArrogantI can't really think of anything else
06:09:36bakavicyou were hoping for something like the latest creative zen-something player? which can play mpeg-4?
06:09:42bakavicas in xvid, etc
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06:11:40bakavicI guess it depends on what format most of your files are in
06:11:54ArrogantI wish it would
06:12:08ArrogantI wasn't looking for video playback when I bought it though
06:13:34Paul_The_NerdWhat were you looking for then? seems the creative player can handle up to 720x480/3mbps xvid videos
06:14:42ArrogantMusic playback with an interface I liked
06:15:41ArrogantI could've avoided a lot of transcoding with Rockbox, but I wouldn't have been happy with it
06:16:18bakavicbecause of interface?
06:17:15bakavicneed to give the rockbox devs sometime to sort out things first - then the interface can be worked on
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06:17:31Paul_The_NerdOr he could always contribute.
06:17:58bakavicthe current keymap feels like it's more suited for a thumbstick then the ipod wheel
06:18:34ArrogantUnfortunately, to contribute, I'd have to learn C.
06:18:46bakavicpressing menu and the middle key to exit pluguns was one of the more weird parts of the keymap
06:19:54bakavicI too want to contribute, but I know nuts about low-level stuff to help out with the port I'm interested in (iriver ifp)
06:19:56Paul_The_NerdWell, the ipod is woefully short on buttons.
06:20:18Paul_The_NerdAlso, keymaps are far from final, since what you're playing with isn't near "release" at all
06:20:54JdGordonBHSPitMonkey: its been finished for ages.. it just needs some1 to figure out the best way to use it
06:21:03ArrogantWell, the iPod has enough buttons
06:21:17ArrogantThe Apple OS is designed to be simple
06:21:36ArrogantIt just makes it shit for this kind of hack
06:22:42Paul_The_NerdWhat do you mean?
06:23:27ArrogantIt doesn't have the right control scheme for a more advanced OS
06:23:43BHSPitMonkeyJdGordon: how do I get it?
06:23:56ArrogantIt really isn't even suited for left/right navigation
06:23:58JdGordonits not a proper patch yet.. its till only the widget
06:24:00Paul_The_NerdI dunno. It works fine for me, but then I didn't spend any time getting used to the Apple control scheme first.
06:24:08BHSPitMonkeyJdGordon: all I want is to be able to adjust the values and see that color displayed, I'm not even worried about it doing something
06:24:19bakavicthere has got to be some way to have a more natural keymap - it's just that if we adopted something similar to the apple OS, stuff like bejewelled, which require directional buttons, will be screwed up
06:24:26BHSPitMonkeyJdGordon: I need to see how colors appear in real life on the lcd
06:24:27ArrogantI don't like having to roll up, then press right
06:24:34Paul_The_Nerdbakavic: Plugins define their own personal keymaps
06:24:49Paul_The_Nerdroll up then press right?
06:24:49JdGordonBHSPitLappy: ill fix it up for ya in a plugin then.. when i get back.. 30min or so
06:24:56BHSPitMonkeythanks :)
06:26:17ArrogantPaul_The_Nerd, yes, navigating up requires the circular thumb motion on the ring
06:26:28ArrogantThen a button press for right
06:26:57Paul_The_NerdArrogant: You mean like, in lists?
06:27:16bakavichmm, how should I say it...if the main OS is using one keymap scheme, and a plugin wants to use another, it would be confusing for the user
06:27:22ArrogantNo, like in games, or in plugins with string entry
06:27:34Paul_The_NerdArrogant: In most games you can also just tap Menu or Play to move up or down.
06:28:05Paul_The_NerdDidn't even try?
06:28:06ArrogantWell then.
06:28:14ArrogantI just assumed.
06:28:24ArrogantThe thought didn't even occur to me, actually
06:28:34bakaviclol, it didn't occur to me too
06:29:17ArrogantNow, the PERFECT plugin for this
06:29:22ArrogantWould be to read the iTunesDB
06:29:45ArrogantSo that your Apple OS songs could be played within Rockbox
06:29:47Paul_The_NerdWell, there's code to read the iTunesDB in iPodLinux
06:30:09Paul_The_NerdSo all it'd take is someone to spend some time adapting it. There's already been a few people who've talked about doing it, though I don't know how serious any of them are.
06:30:15ArrogantThat way I could use the conventional OS or play around with Rockbox
06:30:41ArrogantAt some point I might adapt Rockbox entirely
06:30:49Paul_The_NerdAdapt it to do what?
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06:33:33Paul_The_NerdWell, ideally it's for people who want to use a whole new firmware anyway. It exists alongside previous firmware, but most people who use it *tend* to use it exclusively.
06:34:56Paul_The_NerdBut it sounds like in the end, you'd probably just prefer to stay with Apple OS
06:36:51ArrogantBut then again
06:37:00ArrogantIf it gets rid of the inconvenience of using foo_pod
06:37:04ArrogantAnd, worse, iTunes
06:38:14bakavichmm, I guess it depends on whether you like filetree navigation, or db navigation
06:38:35bakavicI feel that is the biggest hurdle for people coming over from the apple OS
06:38:58ArrogantI use Foobar
06:39:05ArrogantAnd I use Database Search almost exclusively
06:39:23ArrogantI hit semicolon {shortcut key} and type some stuff in and BANG. There it is.
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06:40:16bakavicI take it that most of your music is nicely and properly ripped + tagged?
06:40:48ArrogantTorrents are changing the world.
06:41:09bakaviclol, true true
06:42:29bakavicI have not use foo_pod before, but i think it should be able to write separate directories for each album
06:42:47Arrogantfoo_pod doesn't do that
06:42:58Arrogantfoo_pod is for transfering songs to your iPod from Foobar
06:43:08ArrogantFoobar2000 can do a mass rename\reorganize though
06:43:28ArrogantI don't know why, I just prefer to have my music in one folder
06:43:47ArrogantFilenames are "Artist - Album - [track] Title"
06:44:04ArrogantPossibly (Disc #) right after Album
06:44:32ArrogantIt has something to do with having quite a few incomplete albums
06:45:12bakavicwouldn't doing this make it very hard to navigate by filetree?
06:45:49bakavicfor me, I have directories is this order: Artist->Album->songs
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06:48:27Arrogant_Anyawy, yes, it'd be pretty hard to navigate by filetree.
06:48:32Arrogant_Because there'd be no tree.
06:49:01Paul_The_NerdMan, having all my files in one folder would make me cry. As it is I have a 1400 file folder that I need to come up with a way to organize.
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06:50:16Arrogant_I have something like 3400 files in there.
06:51:00bakavicfoobar might be of helpin reorgainising, but I believe a lot of people have a lot of improperly tagged music, leading to multiple dirs for the same artists, etc
06:51:26Arrogant_Well, you can run Masstagger
06:51:45Arrogant_And choose "Rename/move files"
06:52:08Arrogant_Every "\" in the string branches
06:52:47bakavichmm...interesting - I think I'll have a look into that
06:52:58bakavicfoobar just has too many features lol
06:53:13Arrogant_Foobar is definitely excellent
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07:40:38Arrogant_Paul_The_Nerd, I'm going to put Rockbox back onto my iPod and play around with it, and if I can get it to build I'll see what I can do to it.
07:40:54Arrogant_Maybe make a plugin of my own. I don't know much C, but I know some
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07:43:38Paul_The_NerdWell, have fun with it. Since it's free, it's not like there's anything lost if you don't like it in the end. :)
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07:46:23bakaviccool - let see's if we can make things even better :)
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07:52:16amiconnmooning :)
07:53:17*amiconn now knows how to wire the colour jpeg decoder
07:53:46*Paul_The_Nerd cheers
07:54:07XavierGrSo what is left for colour jpegs?
07:54:16amiconnNow let's see if that actually works...
07:54:30amiconnXavierGr: I just need to implement my idea.
07:57:11*Bg3r hopes to commit XavierGr's changes before this :)
07:57:21*XavierGr hopes too...
07:59:01*amiconn does not
07:59:27amiconnMaybe there will be a conflict, in which case I'll get into trouble
07:59:46XavierGrwe will get into trouble too :)
07:59:47Bg3ri'm changing the part after jpeg decoder...
08:00:06Bg3ramiconn are you working on it atm ?
08:00:10amiconnI don't know in what ways this patch changes the memory management for the decoded images
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08:00:49amiconn...and honestly, I'm personally not really interested in it
08:00:57amiconn(no offense)
08:01:19XavierGramiconn: one way or the other something similar has to be done for a picture viewer.
08:01:34XavierGrmany people would ask for it.
08:02:30Bg3rokay, it just uses the beginning of the plugin buffer (on platforms with at least 130k plugin buffer)/audio buffer (on platforms with less plugin buffer) for an array of pointers to jpegs in the current dir
08:02:37XavierGrand seeing iriver's implementation on this many could say that we should include something to changes files from within the plugin. IMHO always
08:03:34amiconnI don't care how iriver does it. The iriver viewer is crap, as it includes no zoom. It even doesn't use the whole display
08:03:56XavierGramiconn: I agree we have to do it better,
08:04:24XavierGrthat's why I thing that an option to change files is good.
08:04:33amiconnBg3r: The array for multi-viewing is probably no problem. What might one are the view-while-playback changes
08:05:13Bg3ramiconn if you dont touch the plugin_main() func there shouldn't be any problem
08:05:14amiconnFor colour we need to allocate 3 bitmaps from the buffer instead of 1
08:05:20amiconnI have to
08:05:58Bg3rare you working on this atm ?
08:07:13amiconnplugin_main(), get_image(), min_downscale() and scroll_bmp() all need work
08:07:32amiconnPlus there will be an additional function for drawing yuv bitmaps
08:07:51XavierGrwill you make vast changes in plugin_main?
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08:10:08amiconnNot many.
08:10:28Bg3ramiconn any eta ?
08:10:31amiconnThe call of min_downscale() will change as this function will have different parameters
08:10:46amiconn...and the MYXLCD(gray_bitmap_part)() will change too
08:13:23amiconnThe memory allocation in get_image() will change, and the display structure will get additional members
08:14:14Bg3rhm, then i don't see a big problem
08:15:08Bg3rXavierGr ?
08:19:21amiconnThe 'view while playing' feature will be less useful with colour the allowed image size will be even smaller
08:19:58XavierGr512 kB is plenty of size
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08:20:09Bg3r512kb - 40kb max (file buffer) - 20kb (code)
08:20:23XavierGrand it will be usefull for the 5G with 64 MB ram
08:20:39amiconnThe bitmaps for colour will take up to 3 times the space in comparison to greyscale decoding
08:20:40XavierGr(it would have 1024 plugin buffer normally if the same applies for it)
08:20:51amiconn(depending on the subsampling of the jpeg)
08:20:52Arrogant_Is Rockbox capable of extension association?
08:21:00Bg3rArrogant_ of course
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08:21:09Bg3rextension -> plugin
08:21:14Arrogant_Okay, just making sure.
08:21:36Bg3rmore precisely extension -> viewer
08:21:49Bg3rthere is a viewers.conf iirc
08:21:58Paul_The_Nerdviewers.config, yes.
08:22:03BHSPitLappyJdGordon: ping
08:22:44BHSPitLappyare you "back"? :P
08:23:18JdGordoncan u compile it yourself?
08:23:34BHSPitLappyI can't even get any rockbox builds anymore :/
08:23:40*BHSPitLappy HATES cygwin
08:24:13*Arrogant_ makes a batch file for installing/uninstalling rockbox
08:24:25JdGordonuninstall??? as freeking if!
08:24:40Arrogant_Too many ?'s there buddy
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08:27:47JdGordonum... do plugins have a sturct screen* variable?? is it in the plugin_api?
08:28:02JdGordoncoz if it doesnt/isnt i cant pluginafy this ui thingy for BHSPitLappy
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08:32:23*amiconn wonders why [IDC]Dragon's YUV->RGB conversion doesn't use the JPEG standard YUV->RGB matrix
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08:36:04BHSPitLappyJdGordon: tis ok
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08:50:11Zagorsome drawbacks with (the current version of) flyspray:
08:51:34Zagorthe mails have a static subject: Notification from <project>
08:52:16Zagorthe mails only contain the last change/comment
08:54:44B4gdersummary: "crappy mail support" ;-/
08:56:27JdGordondoes any1 use yim?
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08:57:10ZagorB4gder: it's on the todo list though
08:57:34Zagoralso, it's much less of a problem since the web interface is sooooo much better than sourceforge
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09:06:44Zagorplus, this one we can actually modify if we want.
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09:12:36Fred1234has any of you experienced the same problem as me on ipod nano? after installing rockbox when booting I get a "no partition found" message
09:12:45Fred1234rockbox wont boot, but the original firmware works
09:13:01JdGordonis it formatted for windows or mac?
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09:13:27JdGordonhmm... thats me out of ideas :p
09:13:43Fred1234I found something on the IRC logs but nothing I could have used as a clue :)
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09:53:16amiconnhi J÷rg :)
09:53:26[IDC]Dragonhi there
09:53:47amiconnIs there a reason why your yuv->rgb conversion doesn't use the standard matrix?
09:54:31[IDC]DragonI didn't care to search, so I just took what somebody posted in the forum
09:54:50amiconnIt seems that your version increases both contrast and colour saturation
09:55:59[IDC]DragonI just wanted to get the test code going
09:56:31amiconnI'll take this one:
09:57:00amiconnIt matches other sources
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09:57:16[IDC]Dragonin fixed point, I hope
09:57:20amiconnOf course
09:57:55amiconnThe yuv->rgb conversion will also be combined with the RGB888->RGB565 reduction
10:04:54[IDC]Dragonyou can recycle intermediate steps when calculating the matrix
10:05:23Bg3rhm, one question
10:05:30Bg3rcvs version of jpeg.c
10:06:25Bg3rlines 2109-2114, and 2125 ...
10:06:45Bg3rwon't we overwrite 2-3 bytes at the end of the JPEG file ?
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10:10:36[IDC]DragonBg3r: I don't undertstand my own code atm
10:11:01Bg3rthe idea is that buf (and all after it) is used for cached images
10:11:18Bg3rjpeg_buf is just before it (for loading the compressed jpeg file)
10:11:20[IDC]Dragonthe start code preprocessor makes the image smaller
10:11:45[IDC]DragonI mean the compressed one
10:12:10[IDC]Dragonthe 16 bit alignment is probably not necessary any more
10:12:23[IDC]Dragonbecause I switched to byte fetches
10:14:13Bg3rall i mean is that rb->read will load the last ~2-3 bytes of image after where the buf points ...
10:14:24Bg3ror i'm being really dumb :)
10:15:29[IDC]DragonI fail to see why
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10:16:12Bg3rbuf_jpeg = (unsigned char*)(((int)buf + 1) & ~1);
10:16:21Bg3rbuf += filesize;
10:16:27Bg3r rb->read(fd, buf_jpeg, filesize);
10:17:18[IDC]Dragonthe buffer was already aligned
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10:17:28[IDC]Dragonso your first line has no effect
10:18:22Bg3ruf, yes
10:18:36 Quit yeahx ()
10:18:46[IDC]Dragonwe can take both line 2108 ans 2109 out, I'd say
10:21:13Bg3rand align?
10:21:32[IDC]Dragonand there's one little memory optimisation: process_markers could return the new size of the unstuffed/de-markered data
10:21:46[IDC]Dragonmeaning, the shrinked size
10:22:12[IDC]Dragonthe decompressed images have a little more space then
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10:23:35Bg3ramiconn ?
10:24:05Bg3rare you against commiting the XavierGr's work ?
10:26:16[IDC]Dragongrmph, forget what I wrote above
10:26:38Bg3rabout the process_markers()?
10:26:43[IDC]Dragonprocess_markers() doesn't shrink the data any more
10:27:02Bg3r[IDC]Dragon do you have a little time to look at a patch ?
10:27:07[IDC]Dragonthat was before I changed the decoder to cope with resync markers
10:27:09Bg3rjpeg.c patch
10:27:28[IDC]DragonI'll leave that to others
10:27:48[IDC]Dragonguess it didn't change the decoder core
10:28:08[IDC]DragonI don't care about your browsing add-ons
10:28:22Bg3rin fact they are not mine ...
10:28:55[IDC]Dragoni know
10:29:36[IDC]Dragonsuch things are relatively easy, so I don't bother
10:29:59[IDC]Dragonthe biggest question is the button assignment
10:30:07[IDC]Dragonacross our platforms
10:30:24[IDC]Dragonafk, meeting
10:31:10*B4gder reads arm asm and scratches head
10:32:16[IDC]Dragonoh, meeting postponed by 30 min
10:32:37[IDC]DragonB4gder: what's the matter?
10:33:16B4gdera work-related issue, a certain irq takes too long to deal with while others do fine
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10:33:46[IDC]Dragonirq or fiq?
10:33:48B4gderso I'm gcc -S'ing and checking the instructions
10:34:10[IDC]Dragonhow do you dispatch then?
10:34:21B4gderthis is a linux driver
10:34:29[IDC]Dragondid it end in up slower memory, perhaps?
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10:35:11[IDC]Dragonout of tcm, cache
10:35:42B4gderyes, there are many possibilities and I'm researching
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11:00:11markunare the BMPs in cvs added as binaries?
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11:04:57webguest09Technology review disassembled a iPod Nano today:,294,p1.html
11:05:17webguest09Old facts maybe but I thought Id share this link anyway
11:06:28Bg3rmarkun afaik yes
11:06:57B4gder4 MB memory?
11:08:04Bg3rwebguest09 this doesn't tell anything
11:08:12B4gderthe explanation makes lots of assumptions it cannot know
11:08:27B4gder"the memory isn't used as much for caching" bla bla
11:08:52webguest09good that you are wellinformed, thanks for that!
11:09:18B4gderand then *we* don't even have ipods ;-)
11:11:07markunBg3r: I'm wondering how I can find it out. 'cvs status' doesn't say anything about binaries.
11:11:43Bg3rB4gder is the man :)
11:12:21markunB4gder: Do you know if the bmp files are added as binaries or how I could find out?
11:12:43B4gderthe Entries file contains "-kb" if it was added with -kb
11:13:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:13:27markunok, then they are not binaries
11:13:44markunmaybe they should be?
11:14:32markunah, some are, so aren't
11:14:56B4gderthey should be, yes
11:15:36markunI was talking about the background bmp files for the sdl sim btw
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11:29:16CassandraIf they aren't they should be deleted and re-added with -kb
11:30:49linuxstbBut it doesn't appear to have caused any problems so far. I've been looking around, and lots of bmp files don't seem to have kb
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11:31:13linuxstbSorry, not "lots", but some.
11:31:56ashridahwhy don't you add *.bmp -k 'b' to CVSROOT/cvswrappers ?
11:31:56ashridahthen it won't matter if people forget
11:32:21ashridahor better yet, subversion :)
11:32:33*ashridah runs
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11:39:54Cassandralinuxstb, don't know why. Just repeating what I've been told.
11:41:13ashridahlinuxstb: the problems tend to kick in when they're checked out on a platform other than the one they're run on, in the instance where they actually contain newlines in the appropriate format.
11:41:25ashridahwhoa, i am seriously lagged
11:43:13markunI changed the SDL sim to use PNG images for the backgrounds. What do you think of it?
11:44:08B4gdersounds clever to me
11:44:28markunI'll try what happens with transparency :)
11:46:30markunToo bad, no transparent window :)
11:56:22safetydanDoesn't that add another compile dependency?
11:56:27safetydanI assume you're using SDL_image?
11:56:39markunyes, I am
11:56:59markunThe size of the SDL dir went form 2.9 to 1.2 MB
11:57:11safetydanWell if you convince people to make that a dependency, then I can use it for scaling the display during blits
11:59:32safetydanAny other reason to use PNGs apart from file size?
12:00:25linuxstbAre the images compiled into the sim, or loaded at runtime?
12:00:55safetydanloaded at runtime
12:01:03linuxstbWhy don't we just compile them in?
12:01:09linuxstbUsing bmp2rb
12:01:12safetydantoo lazy to modify the makefile :)
12:01:38linuxstbIMO, anything that removes external dependencies is a good thing.
12:01:56safetydanIt's on my TODO list but haven't got around
12:02:44markunlinuxstb: I used PNG because the gigabeat files was criminally big, but I can try to make a smaller picture.
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12:03:28webguest11There is a slight problem with audio playback on the iPod Rockbox (5g Video). The playback is very stuttery, keeps stopping and starting
12:03:29linuxstbmarkun: How big?
12:03:45linuxstbwebguest11: What kind of files are you playing?
12:03:55webguest11just normal MP3 files
12:03:56markunit was over 1MB, now 160KB
12:04:15linuxstbwebguest11: Are you using the very latest version of Rockbox?
12:04:25webguest11I am, I updated it yesterday
12:04:39linuxstbCan you update again now and let me know if it's better?
12:05:07linuxstbI can play 320kbps files without problems on my 5g now.
12:05:21webguest11My file bitrates are 192kbs
12:06:04webguest11Also when shutting down in ipod rockbox, does it put it into sleep mode or does it turn the device off completly?
12:06:49linuxstbIt puts it into a "standby" mode - which is as close as the ipod gets to off.
12:07:22webguest11so its not possible to turn it off completly then? just a bit worried about battery drain
12:07:55linuxstbDon't worry - you can leave it in standby mode for weeks.
12:08:02linuxstbIt uses almost zero battery afaik.
12:08:25webguest11So what would happen if for some reason the battery drained to rock-bottom empty so it wouldn't turn on again, Is it still chargeable?
12:08:46linuxstbYes, I've done that several times.
12:09:03webguest11because i thought li-ion batteries conk out when fully discharged
12:09:15linuxstbI normally turn it on, and then force it into emergency disk mode, and charge from there.
12:09:37linuxstbThe ipod doesn't let the batteries go completely empty - the hardware shuts down.
12:10:27webguest11anyway just downloading the latest daily build
12:14:26linuxstbmarkun: Is it a 24-bit bitmap? How does it look in 8-bit? (I'm assuming you can have 8 bit bmps)
12:14:43safetydanmarkun, doesn't BMP support RLE?
12:16:04webguest11nope, same problem happening, and this is using a 128kbs mp3 file
12:17:30webguest11stuttery playback
12:17:54linuxstbCan you go into the main menu, then Info, then Version and tell me what version number (date and time) it says at the bottom of the screen with the logo?
12:18:12webguest11one sec
12:18:48webguest11version 060217
12:19:11Bg3rlinuxstb btw, won't it be better if this version number is taken from the CVS ?
12:19:14webguest11thats the version currently installed
12:19:39linuxstbBg3r: Where in CVS?
12:19:50Bg3rlinuxstb like the time of the checkout ...
12:20:10Bg3rthe update...
12:20:43Bg3rbecause i can run a version from the last year but if i compile it today, it'll get today's date
12:21:40webguest11well thats the version i am using
12:21:56linuxstbDo you have a lot of sound processing enabled, such as the eq?
12:22:03webguest11well eq is enabled, yes
12:22:20linuxstbTry disabling it - just to test.
12:22:53linuxstbThe ipod port still isn't optimised - so trying to make the cpu do too much at once causes problems.
12:23:29webguest11seems okay
12:23:33linuxstbThe 5g does have a hardware equaliser, so we'll probably enable access to that at some point. That can be used without any CPU overhead.
12:23:46webguest11i;ve turned the eq off, playback seems oka
12:24:16preglowi should measure exactly how much cpu the eq takes for the different platforms some time
12:24:20webguest11I have noticed that Rockbox volume and bass can be seriously ramped up without significant clipping
12:24:23preglowi do however now i can't make it much faster
12:24:29preglowknow too
12:24:32webguest11the iPod fw clips easily on heavy bass
12:24:37linuxstbpreglow: Is there an ARM version of the eq code?
12:24:43preglowlinuxstb: eq_arm.S
12:25:03aegrayyou people are too productive
12:25:03linuxstbThought it was still in C...
12:25:16preglowthere is no c version
12:25:20webguest11Just a few other things, Jpegs still show in greyscale and Screen invert/upside down don't work
12:25:21preglowonly asm versions
12:25:33linuxstbx86 version for the sim? :)
12:25:35preglowwebguest11: we know this...
12:25:40preglowlinuxstb: no sim version...
12:25:54preglowi had some trouble making the sim version work without having to shift the intermediates into oblivion
12:26:17preglowbut if it works in arm, it should work in c as well
12:26:20preglow_on_ arm
12:26:56preglowi don't think i can make either the coldfire or the arm version much faster, the innerloop pretty much only does just what is needed right now
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12:27:07preglowa bigger gain can be found by feeding the eq routine bigger blocks
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12:27:20preglowright now bigger blocks are split up to smaller blocks for some reason
12:29:28ep0chwebguest11: atm using the scrollwheel when music is playing adds a big overhead
12:29:48webguest11oh right
12:30:06webguest11Would it be possible to match the scrolling to how fast you use the scrollwheel like the iPod fw?
12:30:52ep0chi'm sure one day someone will make it configurable
12:31:14webguest11Just out of curisoty, is the iPod 3g supported in Rockbox, not that it matters as I have the 5f
12:31:36webguest11because i know the 3g has a different control layout compared to other versions of the iPod
12:31:46webguest11with those 4 seperate touchbuttons
12:31:57preglow3g support is on the way
12:32:01webguest11just wondered
12:32:04linuxstbThe 3g is very different to the 4g and later - not just the keys.
12:32:19webguest11I never liked the 3g, thought it looked odd with those 4 seperate touchpads
12:32:33webguest11i preferred the look of the 1st and 2nd g models
12:33:33webguest11Finally, I understand a radio remote is coming for the 5g models, would this be supported (radio and keys) and an option to record from the radio?
12:34:10linuxstbIt won't be supported immediately. Someone would need to write support for it.
12:34:18webguest11yea i know, was just curious
12:34:34preglowlinuxstb: didn't someone post a patch?
12:34:43linuxstbpreglow: For what?
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12:34:59webguest11I love to make my own wps in colour for my iPod, black background with ice-blue text. Is it possible to make your own colour wps's?
12:35:14linuxstbThere's already some support in CVS - slimx seems to have disappeared recently though.
12:35:16Papricawebguest11, not yet
12:35:31Papricayou mean text color right?
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12:35:39webguest11and background colour
12:35:53Papricafor the background you can set backdrop
12:36:05webguest11how do u do that?
12:37:27webguest11i'll look at it when I return from work.
12:37:32webguest11But iPodbox looks very very promising
12:37:48preglowwhat is ipodbox?
12:37:56webguest11ipod rockbox! duh!
12:38:04preglowit's just "rockbox"
12:38:04linuxstbQuestion to the other devs - I know we don't have a GUI colour selector yet (or do we?), but would there be an objections in adding settings for fg/bg colour and WPS tags, so at least the colours can be changed from .cfg files? We can add the gui to the settings menu later.
12:38:20ashridahwho coined 'ipodbox' anyway?
12:38:34preglowlinuxstb: sure, but those settings might not be needed later anyway
12:38:41linuxstbHow do you mean?
12:38:55webguest11but some bigger fonts are needed for the 5gs larg screen
12:39:01webguest11the small fonts look very lost
12:39:24linuxstbwebguest11: Like everything in Rockbox, someone needs to contribute them.
12:39:30Papricai think that we need to add more file call .gui ;]
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12:39:41preglowlinuxstb: forget me
12:39:51*linuxstb forgets
12:40:16webguest11anyway am off 2 work now, catch u later
12:41:01linuxstbpreglow: How much CPU time does using all 5 eq bands take, compared to using 1 ?
12:42:44pregloweach eq band takes as much cpu as any other
12:42:56preglowfor processing, at least
12:43:26preglowi don't know the gui system intimately, but that just comes into play when adjusting parameters
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12:45:01linuxstbI need to look at the 5g's audio driver again sometime, so may try adding support for the hardware eq.
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12:46:05preglowwhy do people persist in believing rds is possible
12:46:16ep0chimho i don't think the software eq should be available for ipod when hardware eq works
12:46:27preglowep0ch: it's faaar from as flexible
12:46:41preglowthere are only about four-five frequencies you can use for each band
12:46:46preglowand only two bandwidth settings
12:47:06ep0chi was playing with software eq on ipod lastnight, seemed to use up loads more cpu than on ihp
12:47:31linuxstbep0ch: What's the harm in making it available?
12:47:36Papricawhy bubbeks game isnt commit to the cvs?
12:47:38ep0chwell nothing
12:47:58ep0chbut quite confusing if there are two eqs :)
12:48:12linuxstbWe don't know how good the hardware eq is yet - we can decide afterwards which ones to leave in.
12:48:20Bg3rep0ch but the hardware one comes for free...
12:51:53preglowep0ch: it might take a smidgeon more, yeah, but you'll also notice it easier on ipod
12:52:34preglowthe coldfire is more suited to that kind of work than the ipod
12:52:45preglowthe arm, i mean
12:52:57ep0chbut hey early days, there's still another cpu available if needed
12:53:47preglowwe need to figure out how to use that one, yes
12:53:49B4gderPaprica: bubbeks game?
12:53:57preglowwithout wasting too much iram on communication
12:54:10B4gderI don't see any bubbles game
12:54:21ep0chpreglow: have you noticed your nano is very bassy compared to ihp? that's the first thing i noticed with the 5g
12:54:23B4gderthen that's why
12:54:33preglowep0ch: a weee bit more
12:54:37B4gderI don't chase patches around MR
12:54:46B4gderand I know I'm not alone
12:55:01preglowpost it in the tracker or something
12:55:06preglowmr is the one place i do not look for patches
12:55:16Papricapreglow, its not my game
12:55:25preglowi just said someone should do it
12:55:46B4gdera good pointer for all
12:56:13linuxstbIsn't that game written by RoTaToR ? (hopefully I've capitalised his nick right)
12:56:24Papricammm its very bad that rockbox forum is not the main place to discuss about rockbox things =\
12:56:32B4gderPaprica: sure it is
12:56:37B4gderthat and the mailing lists
12:56:43Papricayep the game write by him
12:56:59PapricaB4gder, i mean for all the other people
12:57:03B4gderPaprica: MR is the place to discuss rockbox if you don't want the devs to read it
12:57:05Papricanot for rockbox crew
12:57:34B4gderPaprica: most of us read the forum
12:57:34linuxstbThe forums are getting very busy nowadays with ipod chatter. Rockbox doesn't appear to have had any impact at all on places like
12:58:21B4gderPaprica: so its a matter of who you want to reach. Users or the dev team.
12:58:44*ashridah notes the S/N ratio on mr seems high
12:58:52B4gderMR is great to reach users
12:58:54ashridahalthough i haven't read the official rockbox forums in a while
12:59:25peturthis post says it all I think: just be patient...
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12:59:39B4gderI don't think it is a bad thing to have discussios spread out
13:00:18B4gderyou just shouldn't assume too much about who's reading or participating
13:01:06safetydanPaprica, RotAtoR will commit that when he's ready apparently
13:01:17Papricamm you dont want that rockbox forum will be like the ipod linux forum?
13:01:29B4gderand how is that?
13:01:35linuxstbShould the note at the bottom of bugs.shtml be changed to encourage iriver bug reports to be filed, but discourage ipod?
13:01:38Papricajust take a look
13:01:46B4gderI don't want to
13:03:25B4gderits like a ladder, you start in the bottom with MR, move up to rockbox forums, then the users mailing list and end up at the top on the dev mailing list
13:04:05B4gderon a user <=> dev scale
13:04:22safetydanlinuxstb, for color settings in what format would we store them?
13:04:36safetydanI have some slider code in the EQ settings that could probably be turned in to a widget for a color setting GUI.
13:05:48preglowyeah, it should
13:05:53preglowwe just need to figure out how that is to work
13:06:05linuxstbsafetydan: I would suggest 6 hex digits
13:06:14safetydanNo alpha? Bah. :)
13:06:18linuxstb(in the .cfg file)
13:06:54linuxstb:) I think alpha-channel support in Rockbox is unlikely.
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13:07:14B4gderand we deal with it then if we'd add that
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13:08:04linuxstbI guess that in the .cfg file we should use six hex digits, but in the settings structure, should we store all 24 bits, or the native LCD depth?
13:09:00safetydanAre there any color displays with palettes?
13:09:06B4gderwe need to keep the full resolution to be able to save a .cfg
13:09:23B4gdersafetydan: not among our targets
13:09:32safetydanone less thing to worry about then
13:12:16linuxstbB4gder: We could just map back from 16-bits to 24-bits.
13:12:44B4gderright, but it wouldn't be the exact same digits
13:13:05B4gdernot that I can think of a reason that should matter
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13:22:44linuxstbB4gder: The colour-chooser widget needs to only give users 16-bit accuracy - so the mappings work.
13:24:11preglowbejeweled = nice
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13:28:20krmathisHi guys. Are there any plans to allow us Mac OS X users to install and run Rockbox on our HFS+ formatted iPod's?
13:28:46B4gdernot likely to happen soon
13:29:00B4gderthe advice is to reformat to vfat
13:29:38linuxstbkrmathis: 1) It is a lot of work; and 2) No developers have HFS formatted ipods.
13:29:42krmathisBut afaik thats not possible from OS X
13:30:07linuxstbUnfortunately not. But I'm sure you know someone with a Windows PC...
13:30:49Mikachudoes osx have device nodes?
13:30:58linuxstbYes - it's Unix.
13:31:06Mikachuthen there's a fair chance mkdosfs will work
13:31:49Mikachuor you can create a dosfs of the right size on another computer and cat it to the device in osx
13:32:18Mikachuwhere the point is you can send the image over the internet but not the ipod
13:32:23linuxstbIt could be possible to do it manually - but it's not straightforward. You'll need to recreate the partitions exactly the same as Windows iTunes does it.
13:32:43Mikachui ran mkdosfs and everything works fine
13:33:07linuxstbMikachu: In which case, please put a tutorial in the wiki - so others can do the same.
13:33:10preglowdoesn't apple ship all new ipods as fat32?
13:33:29krmathisMikachu. Simply format the drive with 'mkdosfs', then install Rockbox on it?
13:33:46Mikachui ran this command, mkdosfs -F 32 -n IPOD /dev/disk/by-label/IPOD
13:33:55krmathisBut the Rockbox tools are Win32 only. Or am I missing something
13:34:12Mikachuthey work fine in linux
13:34:30linuxstbkrmathis: Not really. I can put together a set of binaries for Mac OS if there is a demand.
13:34:57linuxstbAn "installation from Mac OS" page would be useful - including instructions for converting from HFS to FAT32.
13:35:06krmathisipodpatcher.exe looks like Win32 to me. ...and I cant get the source to compile
13:35:13preglowits win32
13:35:20Mikachuyou don't need that program if you're not on windows..
13:35:41linuxstbMikachu: Have you installed from Mac OS?
13:35:55Mikachuno, and my ipod was already fat
13:36:09krmathisAs linuxstb say. If its possible from mac OS X I suggest you write a small simple tutorial
13:36:28linuxstbBecause Mac OS has the same problem as cygwin - it doesn't give you device nodes for "empty" partitions. So you can only access the boot partition via the "whole disk" device.
13:36:50linuxstbI've written an equivalent to ipodpatcher.exe for Mac OS, but just haven't released it yet.
13:36:51Mikachuhm, change the type temporarily with fdisk then?
13:37:51linuxstbMikachu: We should be trying to make the installation as easy as possible...
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13:39:05linuxstbkrmathis: I'll try and write Mac OS installation instructions this weekend - but I probably won't include anything about converting to FAT32. So you may want to try finding a Windows PC you can use.
13:39:39krmathisOk, thanks so far!
13:39:57linuxstbBut then again, if you find a Windows PC, you can install the bootloader from there....
13:41:29krmathisIf it cant be done with 'mkdosfs' I am not able to try this. Since I dont have access to a Windows computer. All my friends are PowerBook users as well..
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13:42:27krmathisAnyway! Seems like you have done a great work so far, so keep rocking
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13:44:20linuxstbkrmathis: The problem will be keeping Apple's firmware happy. But give it a go and see what happens. The worse that can happen is that you will need to run Apple's IPod Restorer to restore it.
13:44:56linuxstbThe long-term aim would be for someone to write a Mac installer program to do it for you.
13:46:01krmathisYes, that would be the ideal solution. Just install the bootloader, then run Rockbox from the HFS+ filesystem
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13:47:15krmathisBut I'll give the mkdosfs tool a try
13:47:44Zagorkrmathis: rockbox is not likely to support HFS in the forseeable future
13:49:00preglowwe would surely need some dedicated hfs wizard to implement it for us
13:49:11preglowand then we'd need to work on our fs code
13:49:19krmathisThats sad. Since we are talking Apple hardware here, which mean lots of the iPod users probably also have other Apple hardware! ;)
13:49:25Bg3rZagor don't bet ... there are insane people
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13:49:55Mikachui saw a guy on the feature requests tracker wanted to transfer files via linein/out
13:50:00B4gderbut Mac OS can grok fat32, right?
13:50:05markunB4gder: I stole the image for the gigabeat background from a japanese website. I guess I shouldn't have done that because of copyright problems, right?
13:50:43markunB4gder: I scanned my own device, but it doesn't look as good:
13:50:49ZagorBg3r: indeed there are. but unfortunately very few that are both crazy enough and skilled enough to pull it off
13:51:32B4gdermarkun: ask for permission or go with the worse one and hope that someone will feel mercy and provide a better ;-)
13:51:41preglowmarkun: looks like you'll have some button mapping fun...
13:51:41linuxstbmarkun: Your scan looks fine to me..
13:52:03markunpreglow: I've mapped everything, works quite well.
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13:52:31linuxstbmarkun: how have you dealt with the touch-sensitive cross?
13:52:31markunpreglow: A for abort, MENU for menu and POWER for other things.
13:52:36krmathisI would have been a lot easier if the iPod Restore application allowed cross-formatting the iPod's. Ex. fat32 from Mac OS X
13:52:44linuxstbkrmathis: Ask Apple :)
13:53:39linuxstbBut that was my "long-term" suggestion - that someone writes a tool to "restore" an ipod as FAT32 under Mac OS.
13:54:11safetydanmarkun, do you intend to check anything in for the SDL sim that will make it require SDL_image?
13:54:44 Quit gantrixx (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:54:59markunsafetydan: if you guys don't like the extra dependency I will not do it
13:55:31linuxstbI assume it means you need libpng and libz ?
13:55:48safetydanthat and SDL_image-dev
13:56:01B4gderBluechip will love you ;-P
13:56:03preglowwhy'd you need SDL_image?
13:56:10safetydanI'm not sure there's enough benefit to adding that dependency as it will complicate the build process even more
13:56:21safetydanpreglow, because SDL only supports BMP images
13:56:22B4gderI can agree with that
13:56:29preglowjust convert it ...
13:56:32safetydanSDL_image extends that to include other image formats
13:57:08linuxstbmarkun: have you tried converting it to an 8-bit bmp?
13:57:23linuxstb(I'm guessing it will look bad, but....)
13:57:30markunlinuxstb: no. But my new background will be smaller anyway
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14:02:54preglowsafetydan: quite a bit of cpu is wasted when adjusting eq parameters right now, unless i'm mistaken
14:03:04preglowsafetydan: looks like all eq filters are recalculated if you only change one of them
14:03:18safetydanthat's probably correct
14:03:22safetydan(don't have the code in front of me)
14:03:42preglowchanging the eq makes playback skip on ipod right now
14:04:39safetydanI can add a "dirty" flag somewhere so it doesn't do that
14:05:02preglowyou could also just pass along the filter which was changed to eq_update_data
14:05:09preglowor filter number, etc
14:05:33safetydanah yeah, that'd be better
14:05:53linuxstbpreglow: Have you noticed that using the clickwheel stops playback? Try moving the clickwheel in the audio debug screen to see what's happening.
14:05:59 Quit damaki__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:06:42preglowwhat the hell
14:06:51preglowthen that's what's choking playback
14:07:35preglowlinuxstb: well, it's hardly strange
14:07:47preglowlinuxstb: you'll fire events like mad, which will make the debug screen lcd_update like mad
14:08:18preglowyou can achieve the same thing by pressing select really fast
14:09:30linuxstbYes, that's true.
14:11:25preglowman, we're really wasting power with flac and wavpack
14:11:28linuxstbDo you agree that an asm version of the fiq handler is probably one of the easiest way to get a performance boost now.
14:11:32preglowthe clickwheel doesn't fase them in the least
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14:11:37preglowyeah, probably
14:11:47preglowi'll probably be severely bored tonight
14:11:51preglowi might try something then
14:12:11*linuxstb hopes for a bored preglow
14:12:30B4gderbored is good
14:12:39preglowhowever, it's also pretty apparent that the 4g lcd driver can take some optimisation
14:12:53linuxstbThe colour driver you mean?
14:13:01markunpreglow: trondheim is boring, right?
14:13:07preglowmarkun: right now it sure is
14:13:14linuxstbAre you talking about lcd_update() or the high-level stuff?
14:13:21preglowlinuxstb: both, i'd imagine
14:13:37linuxstbI know amiconn's got plans for lcd-16bit.c
14:13:58linuxstbBut they're reliant on us switching to different mono bitmap formats, which is a lot of work.
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14:15:14linuxstbpreglow: Did you try that test_fps.c plugin on your Nano/
14:16:04linuxstbIt's in my usual directory if you ever get a chance -
14:16:26linuxstbThat's what gives 54fps on the 5g, and 72.5fps on my Color.
14:16:41linuxstbAnd 80fps on the H300 (at 45MHz)
14:17:55preglowholy smokes
14:18:05preglowfaster than i'd thought
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14:18:38Mikachuhrm, it says '1:1 = 300.5 (cpu = 11289600)'
14:18:48Mikachuand '1:4 = 1184.0 (cpu = 11289600)'
14:19:02Papricalinuxstb it gives 85 to me
14:19:06preglowlinuxstb: doesn't look like optimising that fiq handler should be impossible
14:19:43linuxstbMy color is 220x176x2x75.5 = 5,846,720 bytes/second. 300.5 on the Nano would mean 176x132x2x300.5 = 13,962,432
14:19:43preglowlinuxstb: can you think of any reliable way to test performance enhancements?
14:19:46amiconnThe frequency is most probably wrong...
14:20:21petur11MHz :)
14:20:40linuxstbYes, it's running at 75MHz.
14:22:00linuxstbpreglow: No, I'm not sure how you could measure the impact of optimising the fiq handler.
14:22:04preglowlinuxstb: i'll just embed dma_stop as well, then
14:22:38Mikachuand a 30 first
14:23:10preglowtesting on nano now
14:23:30*Mikachu goes back to jordanising matrices
14:23:31preglow1:1 300.0, 1:4 = 1186.0
14:23:35preglowis there any more?
14:23:40preglowand what does it mean? :>
14:23:53B4gderfps for full and 1/4 update
14:24:07preglowMikachu: a god of the matrices, are you? i happen to need a general routine for matrix inversion! make me one!
14:24:36preglow300 fps is decent, i guess...
14:24:50petur*decent* ? lol
14:24:55B4gder3ms for an lcd_update() is nice
14:25:01preglowcould be faster
14:26:04preglowlinuxstb: can you imagine you'll need to tweak the fiq routine very much more?
14:26:27linuxstbpreglow: Only if lostlogic changes things I think.
14:26:50linuxstbThe ipod playback now seems as reliable as the iriver - unless you know of any problems.
14:27:42preglowthink i'll just stuff the fiq handles in a separate file
14:29:13Mikachupreglow: heh, it's an assignment for my matrix theory course
14:29:25preglowunless anyone knows if it's possible to have it inline and still reside in iram
14:31:11Papricathe sdl simulator dont work for mr
14:31:29Papricait needs the SDL.dll
14:31:38t0masknown problem
14:31:53t0masSDL.dll is in the build dir... you can copy it to c:\windows or c:\windows\system32
14:32:05B4gder... as mentioned in the wiki
14:32:08t0masor you can start the SDL sim from the dir where it was build, using the cygwin commandline
14:32:31t0masB4gder: what kind of press coverage did you want for the devcon?
14:32:48B4gderwhatever ;-)
14:32:50Papricathank you
14:32:50t0maslike an artikel describing what rockbox is, what it does... and why hacking embedded devices is cool?
14:32:58t0masor a news item that we have a devcon?
14:32:59B4gderyeah, like that
14:33:11t0masok, I can e-mail my tech-editor...
14:33:15B4gderI mailed the guy who did the "M3" article on us a year ago
14:33:29t0mashmm... If I get it through... it will be in Dutch
14:33:38t0masbut in one of the major pc magazines here
14:33:52t0masso it might attract new users... lots of ipods an irivers here :)
14:34:38t0masthe news item isn't my thing... and I don't think they will fit in "rockbox devcon" next to "Intel strats selling bla bla"
14:34:58B4gderno, that won't interest anyone
14:35:28t0masand the hacking part will be small too... but using a device with opensource firmware is s subject I might get them interested in
14:36:10t0masas in "Ipod unleased!" sub: "Get the true power of your ipod with opensource software."
14:37:46peturwe could write to slashdot, theregister, i4u, ...
14:38:13peturuh, forget slashdot
14:39:04B4gderrockbox has been slashdot new twice
14:39:14Cassandrat0mas, best not to copy SDL.DLL to \windows or \windows\system
14:39:36t0masCassandra: ok
14:39:37CassandraCould cause all sorts of problems if you install SDL apps that require a later version.
14:39:50markunt0mas: which pc magazine?
14:39:53CassandraBetter to put it in the same directory as the sim executable.
14:39:54preglowCassandra: sdl doesn't change too much these days
14:40:10t0masmarkun: Pc-Active and did something for Computer!Totaal once
14:40:18safetydanDoes static linking working in Win32? Maybe that would make it easer for Windows people.
14:40:47t0masmarkun: know them? both? :)
14:41:03Cassandrapreglow, maybe, put doing it the second way has zero risk of causing this problem.
14:41:24markunt0mas: I don't know pc-active, but I used to go to HCC midden-brabant meetings :)
14:41:36t0masah ok, Computer totaal is hcc's magazine
14:41:42markunyes, I know
14:41:45*t0mas started with Pc-active
14:41:54t0maswrote something a few months ago for computer totaal
14:42:29t0masin Dutch: "De gehiemen van de Windows-kernel" sub: "Rootkits: het ultieme hackersgereedschap"
14:43:14peturgehiemen? lol
14:43:32t0masdutch for secrets
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14:44:28t0masIn English it's something like "The secrets of the Windows-kernel." "Rootkits: The ultimate hacker-tool"
14:44:37*Cassandra wonders if she should poke The Register and see if they're interested in doing an article.
14:44:47t0masyou can always try
14:46:13preglowi tried the interrupt("FIQ") attribute on gcc, and i just added a prologue that saved all of the unbanked registers to stack instead of generating code than uses the banked registers
14:48:09[IDC]DragonCassandra: article on what?
14:48:30linuxstbpreglow: How useful...
14:48:51CassandraEither the fact we're having a DevCon (unlikely) or that we're up and running on iPod (likelier, but still not likely).
14:49:04preglowlinuxstb: for maximum performance i'll have to stuff the fiq handler directly in crt0.S ...
14:49:06[IDC]Dragonthe latter may work
14:49:24[IDC]DragonI could try the "Heise Ticker"
14:49:39*Cassandra thinks she may write a press release. Does that sound like a good idea?
14:49:40[IDC]Dragon(german slashdot, without the bullshit)
14:50:00Cassandraslashdot without the bullshit? Must be a very small site. ;)
14:50:50lostlogicon slashdot, I see 1 rockbox story per year starting in 2002, but I don't see the one this year yet...
14:51:07[IDC]Dragonit's *the* german techchannel
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14:51:32CassandraFrankly we don't really need coverage in Slashdot.
14:51:47CassandraIn particular it usually brings the website to its knees.
14:52:10[IDC]DragonI think haxx is pretty strong
14:52:19[IDC]Dragonand text-based
14:52:38*Cassandra nods to [IDC]Dragon.
14:52:46Lynx_once there is a release for ipod i doubt there will not be a slashdot story
14:52:52CassandraHmm. Can you include photos in press releases?
14:53:14CassandraLynx_, I was surprised we didn't get slashdotted the moment we were up and running on iPod.
14:53:38[IDC]DragonI thought all hell would break lose
14:53:45Mikachuif you weren't slashdotted, where did i read about you? maybe lwn..
14:54:12CassandraWe've had a fair bit of attention on iPod sites too.
14:55:17*[IDC]Dragon writes to Heise
14:55:37Lynx_[IDC]Dragon: has rockbox ever been mentioned in the ct?
14:55:45[IDC]Dragonis it 4g and 5g iPods we tun on?
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14:56:10[IDC]DragonLynx_: I know of at least 2 times
14:56:19markunfucking FreeBSD..
14:57:16Lynx_[IDC]Dragon: hmm, must have missed that
14:57:48Cassandra[IDC]Dragon, and Nanos.
15:00:57Mikachuand 3g i think?
15:02:05preglownot yet
15:04:00[IDC]Dragonis there voice on iPod?
15:04:10preglowi think it works somewhat
15:04:36amiconnVoice on swcodec is still buggy
15:04:54[IDC]DragonI thought iriver does fine?
15:05:05amiconnCurrently it's more buggy than before lostlogic's changes
15:05:11amiconnNot it doesn't
15:05:41amiconnSometimes it's chopped, pre-emption still doesn't work, and startup is unreliable at best
15:05:53lostlogicamiconn: those are all regressions?
15:05:54amiconnSometimes the initial clip is spoken, sometimes it's not
15:06:23CassandraI've noticed that the keypress beep sometimes isn't sounding too.
15:06:32[IDC]Dragonlet's add a lostlogic-bashing topic to the devcon agenda
15:07:44lostlogichmm −− my changes generally make the buffer run "closer to the edge" for voice and beep insertion, I'll have to double check that I didn't go over the edge.
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15:09:28*preglow hates load/store :/
15:10:29amiconnOkay, jpeg.rock now uses the colour decoder on colour targets (display is still mono). It works! :-)
15:10:45Bg3ramiconn commited ? :)
15:10:54[IDC]Dragondisplay is still mono?
15:11:05amiconnI just use the Y bitmap for drawing
15:11:13[IDC]Dragonwhat a quantum leap
15:11:13amiconnYUV->RGB comes next
15:11:18linuxstbpreglow: Why do you need to put the fiq handler in crt0.S? Could you just create a .fiq section which goes immediately after .vectors ?
15:11:27Mikachuwhat happens if you draw YUV as rgb?
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15:11:40Papricaamiconn, good luck =]
15:11:53Papricaim waiting for the colors =]
15:11:59amiconnIt still loads my 8MP digicam images :)
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15:12:12[IDC]Dragonin what time?
15:12:22Lynx_nice, the iriver fireware wouldn't load 3 mp pics
15:12:29preglowlinuxstb: that i could...
15:12:50preglowamiconn: looking forward to it
15:13:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:13:27Mikachuheh, it looks funny if you do (checked in gimp)
15:13:35linuxstbpreglow: But shouldn't the fiq be in iram?
15:13:44amiconn[IDC]Dragon: Decoding full resolution takes ~30 sec
15:14:30preglowlinuxstb: yes, it should
15:14:32preglowlinuxstb: i fixed it anyway
15:14:39[IDC]Dragondon't expect a yuv converter to improve that
15:14:53preglowlinuxstb: i just moved the fiq return sequence to the fiq() function, and made the crt0.S fiq handler a simple ldr
15:14:57Mikachudoes a 3264x2448 image fit in 32MB ram?
15:15:01[IDC]Dragonthat's a task in the same order of magnitude
15:15:22amiconnYUV->RGB will only be done for the visible area
15:15:26preglowif it wasn't for XavierGr's patch, it'd suggest you start using iram
15:15:47amiconn[IDC]Dragon: 1/8 resolution takes ~5 sec
15:16:24amiconnMikachu: Yes. Even without subsampling, an 8MP picture will take 24MB when decoded at full resolution
15:16:43amiconnAdd the compressed size to the RAM requirements (~2MB in my case)
15:17:07amiconn...but I guess that the picture uses subsampling, so it will take less than 24MB
15:17:22[IDC]Dragonit could be an alternative to decode from file, instead of RAM
15:17:48[IDC]Dragonslower, and the disk spinning during decoding
15:18:04preglowlinuxstb: what does that callback_for_more do? buffer copying?
15:18:28linuxstbI don't think so - I think it just returns a pointer and a size.
15:18:44preglowthen i want that in asm as well
15:18:50pregloweverything involved in the fiq handler should be asm
15:18:53linuxstbYou'll have to ask lostlogic.
15:19:09*preglow asks lostlogic
15:19:23linuxstbBut that callback for more only happens once every 5000 interrrupts I think. So you could just save the registers on the stack.
15:19:37preglowah, alright
15:19:45preglow'cause so far i do no stack operations at all
15:19:54linuxstbSorry, once every 1000 interrupts.
15:20:09linuxstbThe fifo is 32-bytes, and I think callback_for_more gives 32kb chunks of data.
15:21:26linuxstbThere are about 5500 interrupts per second - for 44.1KHz/16-bit stereo.
15:23:09linuxstbpreglow: You've probably realised, but you can remove fiq_count - I just used it for debugging.
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15:23:24linuxstb(it shouldn't really be in cvs)
15:23:41preglowlinuxstb: i didn't realise that, thanks
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15:26:35preglowlinuxstb: you're transfering 32 bit samples now?
15:29:44linuxstbNo, the fifo is set up to be 16-bit.
15:30:04preglowso what's with the shifting you do when writing to the fifo?
15:30:46linuxstbI assume that's how the fifo needs the data.
15:31:32linuxstbGive me a second...
15:31:45[IDC]Dragonamiconn: did you compare the speed of color vs. b&w decoder?
15:32:17*[IDC]Dragon is just curious
15:32:24B4gderI have a main loop in my work code on ARM9, with inline functions for reading our custom hw. Without gcc's opts, the loop is 55 ARM instructions. With -O3, it is 9 instructions!
15:33:05Mikachudoes without mean -O1?
15:33:12B4gderwithout means with no -O
15:33:33B4gderit isn't very clever with the inlines then
15:33:56[IDC]Dragonto be dubug-able, I guess
15:34:04[IDC]Dragon debug-able
15:35:00B4gderstill, I was a bit surprised to see almost the entire get optimized away ;-)
15:35:04B4gderentire code
15:35:12linuxstbpreglow: The FIFO format is being set to use 32-bit words, but the I2S word size is 16-bit. We could possibly change that, but I don't have time to experiment now.
15:35:48linuxstbHopefully we could just do a 32-bit read from the buffer and a single write to the FIFO.
15:36:27preglowdoesn't matter too muc
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15:42:00[IDC]Dragon...B4gder codes just redundant stuff...
15:42:20B4gderthat's hardly any news to you, right? ;-)
15:42:59[IDC]Dragonnop(); nop(); {}; nop()
15:43:19[IDC]Dragonwhile (false) {}
15:43:47B4gderhey, have you been looking over my shoulder?
15:44:31[IDC]Dragonfor (i=0; i<0; i+=0) {nop() }
15:45:00[IDC]Dragondon't go near my irq handlers!
15:45:03 Quit Rob2222_ ()
15:45:06Bg3r[IDC]Dragon this will pass very quickly ;)
15:46:29perpleXa[IDC]Dragon: actually for(;;) nop();
15:46:46petur#if 0 ..... #endif
15:46:47perpleXathat wouldnt take care of that "nop"
15:46:48[IDC]Dragonthat'll take a bit longer ;-)
15:46:59imphasingYou don't need the nop.
15:47:05imphasingIt's still doing the same thing.
15:47:27Bg3rimphasing but it's one cpu cycle:)
15:47:43preglowwhat, the arm load instruction can't set conditional flags?!?!
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15:48:16imphasingBg3r: It's still doing nothing though
15:48:27imphasingnop is more efficient at doing nothing I guess
15:48:31Bg3rimphasing but takes time :)
15:48:41imphasingIt's still nothing
15:49:17Bg3rbut if you're doing nothing for no time ... then the next after the "no time" u'll probably do something ;)
15:49:50lostlogicpreglow: callback for more I believe does one stack operation, and no buffer copying
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15:52:20lostlogicpreglow: and I tried to asmify the callback_for_more but it's not worth it, specially since it's only called every ~1/5s
15:52:21preglowlostlogic: was more or less just looking to see if it was possible to code it using just the five banked fiq registers
15:52:34preglowlostlogic: if it's only called that seldom, i won't care
15:52:59preglowa stack load/store of eight registers every 0.2 secs is negible
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15:53:26lostlogicit only stores and loads 1 register on coldfire, is it that many on arm?
15:55:52 Quit B4gder ("time to say moo")
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15:58:34imphasinglinuxstb: I was messing around with the lcd driver some last night, and for some reason I was only getting 23fps with the cvs version
15:58:55imphasingso I got rid of that yield() loop, and now I get 35fps..
16:01:13preglowlostlogic: i can't know that, my routine has to assume it can clobber whatever before i call it
16:04:06lostlogicpreglow: arm has 8 scratch registers you have to save?
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16:05:29linuxstbimphasing: Were you using the version where I had split the lcd_bcm_finishup() function?
16:06:06imphasingGuess I need to update
16:06:58linuxstblcd_update runs in the same thread as the starfield plugin - which is why the yield didn't help starfield run any faster. The new way does.
16:07:37lostlogicman, the new bejewled version is way fast.
16:07:50Mikachuhave you played Zooo?
16:08:01imphasingThe cvs seems borked..
16:08:12Mikachubejeweled is very slow compared to that :)
16:08:33preglowlostlogic: it's an interrupt context we're talking about here
16:08:36preglowlostlogic: i have to save everything
16:09:01preglowlostlogic: and since this is a fiq, the eight upper registers are banked, so i don't need to save them, which leaves the eight lower ones
16:09:47 Quit perl|wtf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:12:52linuxstblostlogic: Does callback_for_more always provide 32KB of data, or can it be smaller?
16:13:23linuxstb(assuming 32KB is available in the pcm buffer)
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16:14:45rjhi, anyone know of a rockbox hack that enables audioscrobbler support?
16:15:16rjdoes it keep a record of what's been played at all?
16:16:47Lynx_rj: that has been discussed before, and i don't think there was a solution if i remember correctly
16:17:22preglowrockbox hack
16:17:53preglowthe audioscrobbler people do not want offline unit support
16:18:01preglowit interferes with their spamming detection
16:18:04rji'm the audioscrobbler main developer
16:18:16preglowthen we might work something out
16:18:33safetydanHow could it work on units without an RTC?
16:18:43preglowrecording what's been played shouldn't be hard
16:18:43rjand we're soon releasing protocol 1.2, which will make portable device syncing much easier.. the spam filter rules are changing
16:18:51 Quit perpleXa ("( :: NoNameScript 4.01 :: )")
16:19:06rjcool. in future you'll be able to submit songs with dates in the past (within reason)
16:19:17rjso it just needs to log what and when for every play
16:19:17preglowbut one problem is that not all our units have clocks
16:19:37preglowh3x0 has, ipod has, archos recorder (i think) has it
16:19:57preglowbut h1x0 and some of the others do not have it, so they can't log when something was played without resorting to hacks that will not always work
16:20:01rjif there's no clock you could interpolate times i suppose
16:20:06rjthe main thing is that the sequence is stored
16:20:15rjthats something we need to consider tho..
16:20:32preglowand it'll be a common problem, so it's worth considering too
16:20:36rji'm just doing a bit of research into portable player support.. i want to buy an mp3 player, but it needs a/s support of course :)
16:21:06preglowbut yeah, just get any of our supported targets that have an rtc chip inside, and audioscrobbler support should most definitely be possible
16:21:31Lynx_rj: there would be data needed on how much of a song was acutally played, right?
16:21:45linuxstbrj: How do you identify songs?
16:21:50preglowit's mostly a problem you will have to deal with, all rockbox needs to do is log what's played when and dump the info to whatever format you specify
16:21:55[IDC]Dragonthere is an existing option to log what you play
16:22:08preglow[IDC]Dragon: oh?
16:22:16rjcool.. so it might be possible to parse that log and submit already
16:22:18 Quit XavierGr ()
16:22:30[IDC]Dragonsomewhere in settings, playback, iirc
16:22:30rjLynx_: not really, just if it was played or not.
16:22:49Lynx_rj: ah, i thought the prococol threw out track played only for 2 secs or something
16:22:51linuxstbYes, there's a runtime database, but that requires the user to have set up a tag database IIUC.
16:22:53preglow[IDC]Dragon: you mean gather runtime data?
16:22:57rjlinuxstb: metadata from the file, ie: id3 tags. whatever methods are available
16:23:10preglow[IDC]Dragon: then i can't see it
16:23:12rjLynx_: yeah it does... you're suppose to listen to at least half of it before submitting
16:23:22[IDC]DragonI don't have my Archos at hand
16:23:32linuxstbrj: So what would the Rockbox export need to contain? Copies of the tags?
16:23:53rjyeah, artist album track track number duration of song, time it was played
16:24:01rjalbum and track number will be optional
16:24:32rj <−− current protocol docs
16:24:40rjbut it's gonna change a little for v 1.2
16:24:53rjwill make it far easier to sync offline plays
16:25:30[IDC]Dragonsorry, I meant "Gather runtime data (experimental)"
16:25:40[IDC]Dragonis that just battery?
16:25:57 Quit bluey (Remote closed the connection)
16:26:15preglow[IDC]Dragon: no, it's a database thing
16:26:26preglow[IDC]Dragon: and i think it's one of those things that just got abandoned
16:27:37safetydanUnless HCl reappears
16:27:49preglowi think he grew tired of it
16:28:07rjjust writing the song data to a text file whenever a song was played would be ideal for audioscrobbler support
16:28:27rjthen it can be parsed and submitted when the device is hooked up to the computer
16:28:28Lynx_rj: and you would write a program that get's the file off the player and submits?
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16:28:54preglowlinuxstb: can i count on "p" being long aligned?
16:29:06peturbut only log it if played at least half or for xx minutes?
16:29:32rjyeah.. although for the protocol revision, that will change to a more flexible "submit when you've listened to at least half the song"
16:29:42rjso that seeking past the intro doesnt stop submission
16:29:44linuxstbpreglow: I'm not sure. It's whatever the callback function gives us. But I would think it's a safe bet.
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16:29:58preglowjust thinking of merging the two fetches to one long fetch
16:30:10preglowldr is pretty slow
16:30:41rjwe're going to release an officially supported uber plugin thing for windows (initially) in the coming weeks. it is our intention to evnetually add support for a variety of portable players to it
16:30:42peturdrink time!
16:31:03 Part petur
16:31:05preglowrj: goodie
16:31:15linuxstbrj: Logging playback to a text file sounds easily doable.
16:31:19Lynx_rj: also one's with stock firmware?
16:31:29preglowrj: just figure out an import format that's sensible and good, and you'll see rockbox audioscrobbler support eventually
16:31:31rjLynx_: some, depends if they keep an easily readable db
16:31:39preglowit doesn't
16:31:39rjipod is easy, there's tonnes of free code
16:31:57rjbut if rockbox could write to a text file, we can look for that file
16:32:00preglowipod doesn't log playtime, does it?
16:32:01rjand parse it.. no problem
16:32:17rjpreglow: i think most ipods just log aggregate data
16:32:21rjnot every time a song was played
16:32:28rjbut we'll support aggregate submissions too
16:32:29linuxstbpreglow: Yes, I think it does. You have things like "25 most recently played" smart playlist
16:33:10Lynx_linuxstb: heh, ipods have stuff rockbox doesn't? ;)
16:33:18preglowyeah, but not _when_ a song has been played? and not how much of it was played?
16:33:30preglowLynx_: in the database department, apple really shines
16:33:51preglowit's more or less the only thing retailos does right
16:33:52Lynx_preglow: a little too much if you ask me ;)
16:34:03linuxstbIt's more or less the only thing retailos does.
16:34:03preglowyeah, me too, but then i don't use databases
16:34:10 Quit Bg3r ("[BX] He-Man uses BitchX. *HE HAS THE POOWWEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRR!!!!!*")
16:38:30rjcool.. i'll be back once we have protocol 1.2 nailed down. thanks for the info :)
16:38:44Mikachui'm pretty sure ipods only save playcounts
16:38:50 Part rj ("Konversation terminated!")
16:42:41preglowlinuxstb: what does FIFO_FREE_COUNT mean?
16:43:08 Quit KN|stiff ("( :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: )")
16:44:20linuxstbThe number of free words in the FIFO I think.
16:44:42linuxstbSo when the FIFO is full, the function returns.
16:45:00linuxstbColour jpeg?
16:45:02amiconnColour JPEG images! :-)
16:45:06preglowamiconn: commitage!
16:45:12*linuxstb can hear the typing on misticriver
16:45:47*linuxstb copies some jpegs to his 5g in anticipation
16:46:48preglowthat thing must be perfect for it too...
16:47:09amiconnSomething is wrong with the max_downscale, lemme check...
16:47:53preglownevermind that!
16:48:19Mikachuwhile true; do cvs update; done
16:49:15muesli__linuxstb u have great ears ;)
16:51:18Papricamuesli__, u are a quick...
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16:51:27Papricawithout a
16:52:19muesli__a quick news-committer ;)
16:53:15[IDC]DragonPaprica, were you the one waiting for it, to show off?
16:53:50Papricammm i like the jpeg viewer
16:53:54[IDC]Dragonsomebody did
16:53:56Papricawith the zoom option
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16:57:58preglowamiconn: status report!
17:00:04 Join actionshrimp [0] (
17:00:49amiconnFound the max_downscale bug - really silly one
17:01:01amiconnI also added RGB565_SWAPPED support
17:01:31amiconnThe background should probably be black on colour targets
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17:01:41Mikachuyou could run the plasma plugin in the background
17:01:42amiconn(if the image is smaller than the screen)
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17:09:35CassandraI don't see why, amiconn. JPEG doesn't do transparency, does it?
17:10:15amiconnNo, but there's a frame around the image if it's smaller than the screen
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17:13:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:17:33amiconnThe sim crashes when trying to view a .jpg ...
17:17:41CassandraErm, surely the frame should be the same colour as the background.
17:19:02linuxstbCassandra: You mean "rockbox blue" (or in the future whatever the user has changed it to) ?
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17:20:33ep0chlinuxstb: you were talking about the clickwheel making the sound stuttering earlier? a similar thing happens on the ihp, just hold down a button in the pcm debug screen and you'll soon see the buffer empty a lot quicker
17:21:45linuxstbep0ch: Yes, preglow saw what was going on. It's simply that the audio debug screen is refreshing itself very quickly (once for every button event).
17:21:55ep0chah ok
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17:28:52PapricaSIGFPE =?
17:30:22Mikachufloating point exception
17:30:45amiconnI wonder why FPE though. It's all integer
17:30:54amiconn(but there is a division by zero)
17:31:23linuxstbIs this in the sim?
17:31:50Cassandralinuxstb, yeah.
17:32:20Cassandraamicon - fire it up under Eclipse?
17:32:38CassandraGUI debuggerer.
17:32:45amiconnGood old gdb was sufficient...
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17:33:06thegeekI hate the debugging in eclipse
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17:34:10Cassandraamiconn, if you can drive gdb, fair enough. I've never been able to get my head around it.
17:34:40amiconnThe good thing with the SDL sim is that gdb actually works in cygwin,
17:35:04amiconnunlike the win32 sims where e.g. a backtrace just yields nonsense,
17:35:12amiconnespecially when trying to debug plugins
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17:38:09linuxstbamiconn: I don't want to distract you from your jpeg debugging, but do you have an opinion about how colours should be stored in the config sector? The choice would seem to be between RGB888 or the native RGB565. In .cfg files, I think they should be RGB888 (e.g. #223344)
17:40:40amiconnOkay, no more SIGFPE
17:40:54amiconnWorks nicely in the iPod nano sim as well
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17:56:46Mikachuamiconn: don't you want to call lcd_clear_display() on noncolor targets too?
17:57:02*[IDC]Dragon says moo
17:57:09amiconnMikachu: Why?
17:57:17 Part [IDC]Dragon
17:57:19Mikachuno idea, but it looks like it wasn't ifdeffed before
17:57:29amiconnIt wasn't there before
17:57:41Mikachumaybe cvs was just joking with me then
17:57:47amiconnNoncolour targets which support jpeg display use the grayscale lib for that
17:58:02amiconn...which has a separate framebuffer
17:58:09Mikachuah, right, sorry
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17:59:10amiconnHappy jpeg viewing :)
17:59:30Papricathanks amiconn
17:59:37yeahxwow the topic was color jpg when I left here last night i think
18:00:20Mikachuwoot, it works
18:00:25 Quit midkay_ (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
18:00:44Mikachui got a conflict with xaviers patch, but i just removed the conflict markers and it was fine... cvs is weird sometimes :)
18:00:46yeahxis that in the lattest nano build?
18:00:54Mikachuit is in cvs since 5 minutes
18:01:16yeahxokie dokie
18:01:56Mikachui think we (can i say we?) should change the shutdown binding on nano to select+play
18:02:13Mikachusince it's used for scrolling in some plugins, you may inadvertently hold it down for 3 seconds to do something else
18:02:49amiconnHmm, no Bger around, and no XavierGr either
18:03:55linuxstbMikachu: The alternative is to make it a menu option.
18:04:25Mikachui added a temporary menu entry since it's faster to use
18:04:32Mikachui just don't want to shut down when i don't want to :)
18:04:42CassandraHaving a button is better. Works if Rockbox is hung sometimes.
18:04:53CassandraAlthough there's always hardware reboot.
18:05:41linuxstbI think I would miss the button. I've never accidentally shut down.
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18:07:16linuxstbamiconn: Extremely nice jpeg viewer on the 5g...
18:07:45yeahxvideo is next right? ;)
18:09:09linuxstbOn full zoom, a 2304x1728 image takes 12 seconds to decode.
18:10:50amiconnSo decoding speed is similar to H300
18:11:19Papricaveryyy nice
18:11:53linuxstbamiconn: Is there still optimisation possible?
18:12:29amiconnI didn't write nor touch the decoder
18:13:30amiconnso I can't tell
18:13:43amiconnYUV->RGB is done 'live' during display
18:13:51amiconn...and only takes fractions of a second
18:16:35Papricacan some one delete tes second post?
18:18:30muesli__Paprica Added sleep timer counting the score -this was my next suggest ;)
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18:26:24HClhi :p
18:26:45HClpreglow: not grown tired of it, but college is demanding a lot of time
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18:32:08HClsilence o-o.
18:32:36Fitzsimmonsoh noes
18:33:32*HCl should update his copy of rockbox
18:33:41HClwhat version are we at nowadays
18:33:48 Quit nounours ("je reviens")
18:34:15ghode|afkwb HCl
18:34:20HClhaha, thanks.
18:34:26ghode|afki think there have been one or two changes :P
18:34:36HCl :p
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18:51:25linuxstbHCl: Do you know anything about Pacman emulators? i.e. any suggestions for a suitable Rockbox candidate? I was thinking about a very early version of mame.
18:51:45XavierGrhaha that's why I like linuxstb!
18:52:43linuxstbI now have a 320x240 LCD I need to fill with things....
18:52:53XavierGrI feel you....
18:54:01amiconnHmm :/
18:54:23amiconnI tried some simple opts for the jpeg decoder
18:54:34amiconnThey make it slower on SH but faster on coldfire...
18:54:51XavierGrvast difference?
18:55:01amiconnLoss/gain is around 5% for each of the 2 steps
18:55:06 Quit damaki (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:55:38amiconn1st step: Replace the huge range_limit table with a function
18:55:47amiconn2nd step: Make that function inline
18:56:19amiconnEach step makes the decoder ~5% slower on SH, but ~5% faster on coldfire
18:57:59XavierGrhow do you measure the gain? Ticks difference?
18:58:23amiconnThe jpeg decoder writes the decoding time into the progressbar immediately before display
18:58:33amiconnIt's still long enough to read the value
18:58:42XavierGrah yes I forgot about that...
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19:09:41*amiconn just found an optimisation for jpeg that doubles the speed on coldfire
19:09:52amiconnNo influence on SH decoding speed
19:10:32amiconn15 seconds now for full-scale 8MP
19:11:28XavierGrcolour target or the H100?
19:11:58Mikachuhave you tried something crazy like -O3? just for the plugin, not for whole rockbox
19:12:06Mikachujust curious if it makes a difference
19:12:26amiconnI don't trust gcc -O2 and higher
19:12:35amiconnAt least for non-x86
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19:21:12elinenbeamiconn: that last commit is nice... it really is MUCH faster!
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19:21:32elinenbeamiconn: fast enough for album art on the WPS :-)
19:24:13*amiconn doesn't get the point about album art
19:25:39linuxstbamiconn: No difference on ARM.
19:26:04amiconnHmm. Is the main thread stack perhaps not located in IRAM?
19:26:17amiconnThen it won't make a difference, like on SH1
19:26:26linuxstbAFAIK it is.
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19:26:40amiconnMaybe the data cache helps
19:27:03amiconnThe arrays aren't large, so they should fit in the cache completely
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19:34:48 Part XavierGr
19:40:48MarcoPoloare you planning to add the wheel acceleration for ipod ?
19:43:49MarcoPololinuxstb: i'm gonna ask a bad question ;-)
19:43:55MarcoPololinuxstb: when ?
19:44:20linuxstbSomeone was here the other day and he did some work on it.
19:44:32linuxstbBut mainly just experiments at the moment.
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19:52:17Papricawhat to you think on commit this font?
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19:54:28Nuxatorhello all
19:54:57Nuxatori've got a littke prob when i try to build win32 sim for H120 with cygwin
19:55:01NuxatorLD rockboxui.exe
19:55:03Nuxator/home/Bruno/rockbox-devel/build/apps/pcmbuf.o: In function `pcmbuf_get_latency':
19:55:04Nuxator/home/Bruno/rockbox-devel/apps/pcmbuf.c:256: undefined reference to `_pcm_get_by
19:55:25Nuxatoranayone can help me?
19:55:39linuxstbNo... The win32 sim is currently broken.
19:55:40 Quit yeahx ()
19:55:49linuxstbYou'll need to start using the SDL sim.
19:55:59Nuxatorok thaks
19:56:21Nuxatorby i was asking myself if my cygwin install was broken or not
19:56:30Papricathe sdl is broken too
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19:57:37NicoFRamiconn: what are you compiling rockbox on ? your AMD64 ?
19:57:49amiconnNo, my x86 laptop
19:58:03amiconnStill didn't get around fixing the 64 bit issues
19:58:41amiconnApart of that, windows is still more comfortable for me
19:58:52amiconnBetter editor, better IRC client, ...
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20:00:04Papricaamiconn, you want to work on the gif viewer?
20:00:12Papricait works on the simulator
20:00:16Papricaand on the ipod
20:00:20Papricabut not in the h300
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20:00:41saa[b_r]iderhello everyone! I'm back!
20:01:13Mikachuyou like swedish cars?
20:01:25saa[b_r]iderhi paprica! I've been catching up at and!
20:01:52saa[b_r]iderMikachu: I drive one.. so yes, but not volvos :P
20:02:18saa[b_r]iderso many new additions to RB, it's amazing!
20:03:27saa[b_r]iderI'm now working on a design for a new 24bit WPS. then I'll work on learning the WPS code, and the required patches for BMP backgrounds, and custom scroll bars
20:03:55Papricayou dont need any patch
20:04:02Papricabackdrop is in the cvs
20:04:13Papricacustom scrollbars too
20:04:44saa[b_r]idercool! so is brickmania! congratulations!
20:04:52 Join safetydan [0] (
20:05:14Papricathanks =]
20:05:58Nuxatordsl is broken? it compiled fine 2 minutes ago
20:06:00saa[b_r]ideris there a faq or wiki for the BMP scroll bar?
20:06:05 Quit DreamTactix291 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:06:08PapricaNuxator, for h100?
20:06:52Papricait didnt compile for mr in the noon
20:07:07Nuxatorwhat was the error?
20:07:53Papricadont remember
20:08:32Papricai'll compile it again
20:09:40Nuxatorand don't forget to make clean
20:10:26Nuxatorit compiled fine
20:10:36Nuxatorbut if i try to play a file i get an error
20:11:07Nuxatoron _temp_codec.dll
20:11:25Nuxatorbut the error message is in french so i guess an traslation won't do it
20:11:30safetydanWhich reminds me I should look at replacing the dlopen calls with SDL_LoadObject
20:12:50safetydanand should also make the win32 sim compile again
20:13:05safetydanbut that means rebooting in to windows
20:14:12saa[b_r]iderpaprica, how is your "title" patch? does it still have bugs?
20:14:53Papricayeah i didnt touch it again...
20:15:18saa[b_r]iderso it's not included in needleboy's optimized build, right?
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20:20:56CassandraI propose we kill the next person to report that jpegs only appear in black and white.
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20:21:08CassandraGood job amiconn implemented colour.
20:21:35 Quit t0mas ("Changing server")
20:21:51safetydanJPEG's only appear in black and white...
20:21:54safetydanon my H120
20:23:06 Join tomas_ [0] (
20:23:51saa[b_r]ideris battery life better now than a month ago?
20:25:48saa[b_r]iderI've been away for that long, and the changes are overwhelming, so it's kind of hard to catch up
20:28:30lostlogicthere have been some performance changes in the last month, whether or not they translate to better battery life I do not know.
20:29:01amiconnsaa[b_r]ider: That's not correct. They appear in up to 33 shades of grey ;)
20:29:05Mikachuthe 160x128x2 sudoku bitmaps seem to work perfectly fine for nano
20:30:03saa[b_r]iderI didn't say they appeared in only black and white :)
20:30:36Mikachuapparently amiconns irc client isn't as good as he claimed earlier
20:31:01amiconnIt's certainly more comfortable than xchat
20:31:30peturbtw, which client is it?
20:31:43 Join Strath [0] (
20:31:44*Cassandra kills safetydan
20:32:21 Nick paugh is now known as AliasCoffee (n=kickback@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822)
20:32:28saa[b_r]ider"More correct power handling of the HDD and ISD300 chips on the H300 platform" sounds to me like better battery life
20:33:06CassandraI think the battery life on the H300s and iPods still is pretty sucky though.
20:34:04saa[b_r]ideris it actually better on the H100 (or whatever player you use?)
20:34:43peturamiconn: don't know what you tried to do but it's not working ;)
20:34:58amiconnIt did
20:35:08lostlogicsaa[b_r]ider: that was backed out −− linus is still working on it
20:35:18amiconnI did /ctcp petur version
20:35:21amiconnand got:
20:35:21 Quit perldiver (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:35:26amiconnCTCP/VERSION reply from petur : Visual IRC 2.0 (English) - Fast. Powerful. Free.
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20:36:24peturhehe, yours doesn't support this...
20:36:28amiconnIt does
20:36:35saa[b_r]iderI hear there is some sort of a new lag problem on the H300s, any idea what that's about?
20:36:40amiconnYou didn't give a command...
20:36:46peturCTCP ERRMSG reply from amiconn: Unknown/Unsupported CTCP Command
20:36:58amiconnThe ctcp syntax is /ctcp <nick> <command>
20:37:05amiconnYou left out the command...
20:38:06 Quit darkless (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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20:38:28lostlogicsaa[b_r]ider: reference?
20:39:13*petur just learned new things about irc...
20:39:17saa[b_r]iderat MR andrewmel was talking about some sort of a sound lag... can't remember his exact wording
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20:44:31NicoFRit looks like the audio decoding is requiring more CPU power somehow
20:45:06NicoFRand playing brickmania stops audio playback now... Paprica: any ideas why ?
20:45:26Papricano @@
20:46:04safetydanAre C99 constructs frowned upon in Rockbox source?
20:47:09saa[b_r]iderNicoFR thanks, that's the problem I was talking about
20:47:11safetydanfor(int i = 0; i < 5; i++)
20:47:11Mikachufor (int i=0;.....) ?
20:47:20linuxstbI think that is.
20:47:25safetydanah well
20:47:36Mikachuyou need to compile with -std=c99 for that to work iirc
20:47:37*safetydan moves declaration of i 80 lines earlier in the source
20:47:55Mikachudo you support gcc 2.x?
20:47:58*linuxstb thinks is pretty obvious that "i" is always an integer iterator...
20:48:19*aegray makes them doubles
20:49:04Mikachuor the imaginary unit!
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20:49:20linuxstbaegray: Has anyone tried a MAME port to IPL?
20:49:38aegraynot sure - we were talking about it but no action afaik
20:49:48amiconnSome C99 features are used in the rockbox sources, but some others are unwanted
20:49:55safetydanlinuxstb, it's usually obvious, just I'm used to doing that in Java
20:50:18*aegray makes a class for i to change ++ to increment by a random amount
20:51:15lostlogicUnfortunately an important bug fix is what caused at least part of the problem, specifically the audio not boosting when it needs to during other CPU intensive tasks...
20:52:07lostlogicIt used to boost on the DMA interrupt as needed, but it's not allowed to any more, however if the codec thread gets to run sufficiently to decode ~1/20s of audio it should boot any way
20:53:38lostlogicPaprica: does brickmania use a timer interrupt that does a lot of work on an interrupt handler?
20:53:50lostlogicPaprica: because that could cause the audio thread not to be able to boost as it needs to.
20:54:13linuxstblostlogic: No, I think it just sleeps to maintain a fixed fps.
20:54:46Papricalostlogic, you dont have sound too?
20:54:56linuxstbMaybe it's simply a case of not enough yields (or maybe no yields)
20:55:10lostlogicPaprica: yeah, after a while, the CPU doesn't manage to boost when it needs to in order to maintain the audio buffer
20:55:29lostlogicwhich I know changed when I took the pcmbuf boost out of the DMA interrupt
20:56:00Papricai dont think that i change somthing that could do it..
20:56:41lostlogicPaprica: no, it's definitely my change that made it stop working, but the question is why does brickmania cause it, because the other thing that causes it is the repeated interrupts of scrolling
20:56:46safetydanbah, missed the compile window
20:57:05safetydanAnyway, EQ should use less CPU when it's being modified from the GUI
20:57:08safetydannow time to watch a movie
20:58:43Papricai dont hear nothing
21:00:15lostlogicthere's definitely a lack of yields in here.
21:01:10Papricawhy could'nt i hear nothing???
21:01:48lostlogicPaprica: nothing at all, or just nothing when playing brickmania?
21:02:13Papricai dont hear n-o-t-h-i-n-g without brickmania
21:02:44lostlogicdouble negative is confusing me. There is never sound on your player?
21:03:34Papricanow, never sound
21:03:48Papricaand it seems like playing
21:04:04lostlogichave eq on?
21:04:26Papricait works now
21:04:53lostlogicmaybe need another update from safetydan
21:05:27 Join MarcoPolo [0] (
21:07:37Papricamaybe thereis too much loops in brickmania?
21:08:16lostlogicPaprica: too many loops won't cause a problem as long as there are yields in the right places
21:08:19lostlogicI think I've got it fixed
21:08:26lostlogicwith just 2 calls to rb->yield()
21:09:18 Join damaki [0] (
21:09:25lostlogicthe only problem is that when it's running unboosted (which means it's running below target frame rate already on h300) it runs even a little bit slower
21:09:35lostlogicbut it has to yield every frame in order to be cooperating nicely
21:10:34 Join Zagor [0] (
21:11:15Papricacan you explain to me what does the rb->yield() do?
21:11:52lostlogicPaprica: unlike windows or linux, rockbox is a cooperative multithreading application, so unless you give other threads a chance to run, they will literally never run
21:12:08lostlogicyield() and sleep() adn other kernel functions with timeouts give other threads a turn with the CPU
21:13:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:13:50lostlogicsafetydan: NicoFR: the scrolling on iRiver being slower is not because playback now takes up more CPU, but rather because the scrolling doesn't give the codec thread a turn to run which would boost the CPU which would speed up both
21:14:10lostlogicsafetydan: NicoFR: the solution is therefore for the list view to yield sometimes even when it's scrolling to catch up with button activity
21:14:19lostlogicer shoot, not safetydan, saa[b_r]ider
21:14:30lostlogicstupid nick completion
21:15:28saa[b_r]iderno problem ;)
21:15:38NicoFRlostlogic: ok
21:16:17lostlogicnow I personally hav eno interest in messing with the file list view scrolling, but I'm sure someone out there does ;)
21:16:57NicoFReven adding one or two yields ?
21:17:37lostlogicNicoFR: whatever loop it executes to update the display and move the bar needs just one yield per pass... alternately, dropping frames when it's too slow and yielding instead might be a better solution
21:18:03NicoFRhmm so it's not really trivial
21:18:20amiconnOr make the gfx faster...
21:19:07amiconnbut one yield per pass should be done anyway
21:19:56NicoFRamiconn: that's simple to do, isn't it ?
21:20:23NicoFR(the one yield per pass thing)
21:20:39NicoFRjust a matter of adding one line in the loop, no ?
21:21:26lostlogicNicoFR: should be, I ahve no idea how the scrolling list works
21:22:06lostlogicit might also be reasonable for it to boost itself if it has a queue of events to process
21:22:12lostlogicwhich would make the overall UI experience better
21:22:33NicoFRindeed... that's a probelm users at MR mention all the time
21:22:56linuxstbSkipping frames would seem a good idea as well though.
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21:23:41NicoFRand what about not buffering key-presses when lag occurs ?
21:24:27lostlogicNicoFR: probably better to still buffer them but to have the actual thread that's processing them discard them if they won't be executed within Xms to prevent the scrolling after release problem
21:24:57NicoFRyes that would probably be even better
21:25:08NicoFRthat scroll after release thing is most annoying
21:26:39lostlogicbut again, I have no idea how any of this stuff currently works, so I don't know what all would be involved in making it bettererr
21:27:53NicoFRdo you have an idea what files deal with this sort of thing ?
21:28:01NicoFRi'm trying to look for them
21:28:12Papricavoid * data,
21:28:19Papricawhat void variable gives me?
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21:28:58Sanhey pappy
21:30:44lostlogicPaprica: a void * is a pointer to a place in memory that holds unformatted data, or data of an unknown type
21:30:57 Quit Nuxator ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox]")
21:32:15lostlogicNicoFR: list.c
21:33:07NicoFRthat's what i'm looking at :)
21:33:24NicoFRso there's no file specially dedicated to scrolling ?
21:36:56lostlogicNicoFR: I'm guessing the scroll events are handled in list.c
21:37:25amiconndiscarding button events is a bad idea imho
21:37:44NicoFRamiconn: because of blind people ?
21:37:57amiconnBlind people and blind operation
21:38:04amiconnI do this rather often
21:38:09lostlogicamiconn: that doesn't apply during a button hold
21:38:12Zagoralso because you can't know the event is another of the same
21:38:16lostlogicbecause the system determines the rate of repeat already
21:38:22Zagor...unless you implement peeking or putback
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21:49:25lostlogicNicoFR: you might need to look in tree.c rather than list.c −− I'm thinking about yielding if LIST_NEXT or LIST_PREV at line 581 in tree.c to see what that does for me
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21:54:13NicoFRlostlogic: does it make things better ?
21:54:21lostlogicno, which surprises me :(
21:54:53amiconnsafetydan: Yellow builds...
21:55:28NicoFRlostlogic: yes it's surprising... it seemed like a good idea
21:55:42 Quit damaki (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:56:15NicoFRand what about yielding in 'gui_list_select_previous' and 'gui_list_select_next' in list.c ?
21:56:29NicoFRnot a good idea i suppose ?
21:57:21lostlogicNicoFR: seems undesirable to have the list functions do it... I'm more inclined to have the calling function in tree.c do it... which of course go me so far this time :(
21:58:22NicoFRhmm and what about doing it in 'gui_synclist_do_button' ? around line 593 in list.c ?
21:58:33lostlogicI was thinking about that, give it a try :)
21:58:36Musicmadhi guys - when is scrolling slow for you?
21:58:47 Join damaki [0] (
22:03:11ZagorNicoFR, lostlogic: see what happens if you handle repeated events like the clickwheel. that is, only add repeat events to the queue if the queue is empty.
22:04:51Zagoradd a check to firmware/drivers/button.c:461
22:05:29Zagorif (queue_empty(&button_queue))
22:05:58NicoFRlostlogic: doesn't seem to help...
22:05:59 Join solexx_ [0] (
22:06:06NicoFRZagor: i'll rty that
22:06:37 Quit bluey ("Leaving")
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22:11:35NicoFRwow that seems to help quite a bit !
22:12:16NicoFRi don't see any scroll after release thing anymore
22:12:34NicoFRand somehow it seems to allow boosting
22:13:10NicoFR... or not
22:13:35Zagortry some other repeat events, such as searching in tracks and vol up/down. notice any change?
22:14:02NicoFRyeah was going to try
22:14:07NicoFRmuuuuch better :D
22:14:27peturbah... building for all targets takes ages :(
22:14:38Zagorreally? how did they improve? I was concerned they would be worse.
22:15:36NicoFRwell there was the same probelm with seeking in tracks by a long interval... it would go further than expected: that seems to be fixed
22:15:43Zagorah, right
22:15:56NicoFRand volume changing stops exactly when i release, too
22:16:07NicoFRso it seems all good :=
22:16:50ZagorI expect vol up/down doesn't feel any different?
22:16:59Zagorno "stuttering"?
22:17:15NicoFRdoesn't look that way
22:17:23 Quit solexx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:17:24peturthat should fix the radio volume bugreport as well...
22:17:29Zagorsounds good then
22:17:38NicoFRi like it :D
22:17:56 Quit MarcoPolo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:17:56NicoFRand i'm sure i won't be the only one
22:20:43NicoFRpetur: yes the difference is quite noticeable on the radio
22:20:48Zagorunfortunately I don't have any hardware here to test with. amiconn, can you try it on the archos(es) and see if there's any negative effect?
22:21:51Zagoror anyone else with an archos, of course
22:25:48linuxstbAnyone understand the declaration "unsigned char* line[0];"
22:26:37linuxstbIt's OK, I've got it....
22:27:18 Quit mirak (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:29:17NicoFRwell after some more testing it looks like the yields in list.c actually help
22:29:36NicoFRthey allow the cpu to be boosted while scrolling
22:29:50 Quit Thus0 (Remote closed the connection)
22:29:59NicoFRbut that still doesn't prevent the audio playback from being halted
22:30:29 Join mirak [0] (
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22:31:00Sanhow hard would it be to make a plugin which would be a menu, and when you click on one of the options, it would be an image?
22:31:19 Join perldiver [0] (
22:31:20 Quit zhilik (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:31:27Sanit would display an image rather
22:31:38NicoFRi've made a patch with the changes :
22:31:52ZagorSan: the menu already exists: "browse plugins"
22:32:03Sani know
22:32:08PapricaNicoFR: SF?
22:32:21Mikachuyou can just add && queue_empty(&button_queue)) to the if (repeat)
22:32:27 Quit TCK ("well, if you say so.")
22:32:42Sanbut a plugin, that displays a list of options, and in each option, it would display an image
22:33:12ZagorMikachu: no, then it'll go into the 'else' statement
22:33:36Mikachuah sorry
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22:34:22Mikachui shouldn't comment on code after 22:00
22:34:45ZagorSan: very easy. take jpeg.c and add a menu to it.
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22:35:50Sanit would be easier than that, but I dont know how to create menu's
22:35:53NicoFRPaprica: yep, i'll post it now
22:36:35 Join LinusN [0] (
22:37:34ZagorSan: the plugin interface includes menu code. look in sudoku.c for an example.
22:38:11 Quit xmixahlx ("blah blah blah")
22:38:52Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: Someone's had problems with the 5G USB change, it seems.
22:39:00PapricaLinusN, can i commit it?
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22:40:41Sanlike that ??? ^
22:41:22Sanis that All i need for the menu?
22:41:36Sanah, its easy then
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22:42:27uskiw00t, more and more people here :) hi all !
22:42:36linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: OK.....
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22:43:15Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb:;topicseen#msg18833 <−− Apparently, his isn't detecting USB connect any more.
22:44:53linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: At least he won't have the boot-into-usb-screen crashes any more....
22:46:56 Quit perl|wtf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:47:16Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: Hey, it's a feature!
22:47:25linuxstbCan you sell that?
22:50:35NicoFRPaprica: submitted to patch tracker :)
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22:51:52safetydanamiconn, yo sorry
22:51:55Paul_The_NerdAh well, gave him a suitably reassuring post.
22:53:14amiconnSomething is wrong with the chunked db browsing... it doesn't work anymore
22:53:56Sanhow do I use the bmp2rb again? bmp2rb image.bmp??
22:54:52amiconnThe scroll clamping seems to work on archos, although scrolling through lists feels a bit jumpy now
22:55:28amiconnMaybe this comes from the fact that if the queue isn't empty, the next event is postponed until after the next interval timeout
22:56:19amiconnIt could be refined to check more often for an empty queue once the interval timeout is over
22:56:24NicoFRmaybe this could be tweaked by checking the number of events in th queue
22:56:28safetydanInteresting that the build score actually went down after I broke a bunch of targets
22:57:26amiconnNicoFR: That would be another option, only post if zero or one event is in the queue
22:57:55NicoFRamiconn: how come it feels jumpy on archos ? less CPU power ?
22:58:10 Join elinenbe__ [0] (
22:58:18amiconnNo. Scrolling is actually faster on archos (less gfx data to move)
22:58:34Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: Apparently his GPIO_B stays at F9 without changing. =/
22:58:47amiconnIt seems that gfx can almost cope with the highest repeat rate, but not always
22:59:08amiconnSo occasionaly one repeat event is suppressed, which doubles that one interval
22:59:30NicoFRand would accelerating gfx on targets with big screens be hard ?
23:00:16amiconnIn fact I like the auto-adjusting repeat
23:00:26amiconnIt should just be more smooth
23:00:33Zagoryeah, we're going to need this type of "flow control" even with fast graphics
23:00:45peturbah... it seems there's no common recording indication for all targets :(
23:00:51NicoFRauto-adjusted as in the original way ?
23:00:57amiconnThe jpeg viewer does its own flow control, which could then be removed
23:01:13*BHSPitMonkey misses the GIF viewer
23:01:34amiconn(a remnant from back when the grayscale lib was so slow that we got afterscroll like we get with lists on H300 now)
23:02:14 Join NightCat [0] (
23:02:52NicoFRamiconn: can you detail what 'auto-adjusted' is ?
23:03:43 Quit NightCat (Client Quit)
23:03:47 Join NightCat [0] (
23:04:45linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: I think I know what that means - that the GPIO pin relates to charging, and not USB. So he's using an unpowered USB socket.
23:05:39NicoFRBHSPitLappy: what GIF viewer ?
23:06:18linuxstbBHSPitLappy: Have you tried the jpeg viewer?
23:06:21Mikachuhm, successfully loaded a 8408x4347 jpg file :)
23:06:25Mikachui'm impressed
23:06:25 Part Paul_The_Nerd
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23:06:58 Quit uski ("Leaving")
23:07:02*amiconn has an idea how to add the fine-grained event throttling
23:07:10joesomebodyhey everyone
23:07:29joesomebodyi love rockbox on my 5g ipod
23:07:40joesomebodyi am planning on learning C so I can help with development
23:07:54 Part NightCat
23:08:02joesomebodyuntil then, I have but only one request: someone please make fullscreen work on the ipod 5g
23:08:11joesomebodyfor rockboy
23:08:24 Join Shadowarrior13 [0] (
23:08:27amiconnJust don't reset 'post' if we don't post - this way the driver retries to post every tick...
23:08:32 Quit elinenbe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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23:09:38*amiconn tries his idea
23:09:51 Join NightCat [0] (
23:09:57joesomebodydoes anyone know if there is a way to colorize fonts in rockbox, and if there is a way to change how the ui looks?
23:09:58 Quit NightCat (Client Quit)
23:10:11joesomebodynot just the now playing screen, that is
23:10:38Bgerjoesomebody not yet
23:11:06joesomebodyso is anybody out there even listening or interested in talking to me?
23:11:29Mikachuyou mean apart from the guy who replied to you?
23:11:39*linuxstb is listening
23:11:59*HCl yawns
23:12:22HCllinuxstb: there's pacman for the gameboy, i think
23:12:26joesomebodyoh...whoops, i wasn't exactly paying attention...
23:12:39linuxstbHCl: I've found one, and it's terrible.
23:12:48joesomebodysuper mario land works really well on the 5g..i get great framerates despite the video emulation
23:12:58 Quit elinenbe_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:13:00Shadowarrior13The controls are horrible though :P
23:13:02linuxstbI would rather just emulate the pacman hardware and run the real thing.
23:13:13HClmame probably doesn't support enough power...
23:13:23linuxstbWhat do you mean?
23:13:25HClmame is fairly cpu intensive, i think
23:13:27HClat least
23:13:31HClfrom what i've seen of it
23:13:32joesomebodywhy hasn't anyone made a keyboard for the ipod....i can dream
23:13:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:13:36HClof course, the games i ran on it weren't pacman
23:13:52linuxstbI've gone back to mame 0.18. Pacman just had a 3MHz Z80
23:14:01HCl*grins and remembers when someone joked about making a gameboy emulator for iriver :p*
23:14:25HCli guess no one has looked at speed optimalizations for it?
23:14:41NicoFRHCl: the GB emulator ?
23:14:48CassandraRockbox could theoretically support a serial keyboard over the iPod dock connector.
23:14:49linuxstbI've finally got a Rockbox target capable of displaying pacman's 224x288 screen...
23:14:52joesomebodyi have a and b set so select, and then left, right, and up set for movement, and up is also select. then, down i have set as menu
23:14:56HCli originally ported it to rockbox :p
23:15:05HClin response to someone challenging me
23:15:18lostlogicHCl: there's been work on optimizing it
23:15:22NicoFRkkurbjun as worked on it a bit recently
23:15:22HCl :)
23:15:32HCli've been pretty busy lately
23:15:32linuxstbThe colour support has been restored as well.
23:15:33NicoFRit's become quite fats
23:15:40HCli guess my priorities have shifted a bit too
23:15:43CassandraHCl: Bet you couldn't port user mode linux.
23:15:51joesomebodyi hope someone eventually ports FCE Ultra
23:15:57HCluml? o.o;
23:15:59joesomebodythat would rock
23:16:02NicoFRor java :D
23:16:04HCluml only runs on top of another linux
23:16:32CassandraI'm pretty sure it runs under windows too, or am I thinking of a different linux port.
23:16:43lostlogicCassandra: uml is specifically linux on linux
23:16:45amiconnHere's my refined adaptive repeat mod if anyone wants to try it:">
23:16:46linuxstbYou want a Linux plugin?
23:16:53HClcolinux runs in windows
23:16:55joesomebodysomeone got win95 to run on a psp...what a waste of time
23:17:10HClreminds me of that person booting windows 98 on an xbox
23:17:29HClunder vmware under linux
23:17:29NicoFRamiconn: i'll try it
23:17:32HClof course it ran like crap
23:17:35HClbut it ran
23:17:43joesomebodyeven though i am kindof n00bish when it comes to linux, i know it is far superior
23:17:49BHSPitLappyHCl: no different than a native install
23:17:56HClBHSPitLappy: ?
23:18:00Cassandralinuxstb, only so I can see the faces of the ipodlinux crowd. ;)
23:18:03joesomebodyi like ubuntu personally...suse is ok if you have a fast enough box
23:18:18HCli run ubuntu and debian :)
23:18:43BHSPitLappyHydrogen Chloride: I meant win98 is crappy, in or out of vmware :P
23:18:50joesomebodyubuntu's development is so fast
23:19:04joesomebodyof course, rockbox's development is blazing too
23:19:17NicoFRBHSPitLappy: btw, what GIF viewer were you talking about a few moments ago ?
23:19:29NicoFRthe new one ? won't load in firefox for some reason
23:20:00HClBHSPitLappy: ohh :p
23:20:02amiconnHumm, my patch doesn't make much of a difference...
23:20:44NicoFRwell it works...
23:20:52joesomebodyall of my friends are jealous of my rockbox 5g
23:21:01NicoFRbut if it feels better i can't tell you
23:21:04Zagoramiconn: did you make post static and set it to false after post?
23:21:05joesomebodyi told them i would help them set it up as soon as it matures a little more
23:21:14amiconnNicoFR: Yes it works, but no better than the simple version
23:21:34amiconnZagor: Yes, but I just noticed that I need to stop the countdown while post is set
23:22:40 Join Thus0_ [0] (
23:22:51 Quit Rick ("Updating mIRC to 6.17 - If you have mIRC you should too!")
23:23:36NicoFRi don't understand... i can't build the h300 win32 sim from CVS...
23:24:13NicoFRcvs up -dPC and then make... doesn't work
23:24:32Bagderuse the SDL sim
23:24:41Bagderthe win sim is going
23:24:42 Join Rick [0] (
23:24:55NicoFRhmm i'll try that
23:25:03NicoFRi suppose i have to install SDL ?
23:25:28Bagdercheck the cygwin wiki page
23:26:10NicoFRi'm curently using the devkit
23:26:21NicoFRmaybe i should consider going back to pure cygwin
23:26:44 Quit Musicmad ("Trillian (")
23:27:19Bagdercan't you just invoke the cygwin installer and add new packages?
23:27:37NicoFRi'll try that
23:27:41 Join RotAtoR [0] (
23:27:54BagderI don't know, but I would think it should work
23:28:28BHSPitLappyNicoFR: (gif) is there a new one?
23:28:30amiconnPatch updated, same URL
23:28:37BHSPitLappyI haven't updated in a while
23:28:51joesomebodywould someone update rockboy sometime to work fullscreen on the 5g ipod and put it in CVS?
23:29:00BHSPitLappyit works at all?
23:29:01joesomebodyi don't know C
23:29:31joesomebodyit works, the screen is the size of a postage stamp
23:29:34BHSPitLappydoes it work on the nano?
23:29:51joesomebodyi would guess...i don't have a nano
23:29:51amiconnmental note: When we decide to commit the repeat auto-adjust, the sim button drivers need the same changes
23:30:07NicoFRBHSPitLappy: well i'm not aware of there being any other than the non-working one eli_sherer posted on the patch tracker today
23:30:41BHSPitLappyNicoFR: oh, I used a working one on my nano a few weeks ago (but it was by a fluke that I had it)
23:30:58joesomebodyhas anyone ever just sent an email to Broadcom and asked for the instruction sets and programming manual for the 2722 video chip?
23:31:09joesomebodyjust to see if they would be nice
23:31:11BHSPitLappythey're not too keen to that.
23:31:12NicoFRBHSPitLappy: ah, i think i remeber hearing about it
23:31:33BHSPitLappyjoesomebody: people have tried to get docs from broadcom. it never turns out well...
23:31:39joesomebodyhow so?
23:31:45Sancygwin isn't compiling for me
23:31:49Sani type cd build
23:31:52BHSPitLappy-they get whacked.-
23:31:54Santhen ../configure
23:31:59Sanand nothing comes up
23:32:03joesomebodylegal trouble?
23:32:04BHSPitLappySan: "../tools/configure"
23:32:08Sanaah, ok
23:32:15Mikachuthat depends on where build/ is :)
23:32:19BHSPitLappyjoesomebody: nah, they just don't give out info.
23:32:25 Quit elinenbe (Connection timed out)
23:32:43BHSPitLappyMikachu: sure, he put his build in tools :P
23:32:43joesomebodyif they make the chip in China, maybe we could establish a
23:32:55Mikachui did that the first time :P
23:33:15 Quit Siku ()
23:34:04joesomebodymaybe one of the sites that break news about apple products could get a copy from one of their contacts
23:34:23 Quit safetydan ("Leaving")
23:34:32joesomebodyi guess it isn't really possible to just do a dump of the chip itself
23:36:14CassandraI spoke to Arcam about their iPod cable. They tell me that their contract with Apple specifies that they can't release any information about the interface.
23:36:18 Quit Thus0 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:36:43joesomebodycould we maybe capture raw data from one of those cables?
23:36:57CassandraThe iPod Linux crowd have. Check out their wiki.
23:37:16CassandraThe iPod accessory protocol is pretty limited, unfortunately.
23:37:37joesomebodyfreakin' corporate giants just won't realize that helping open source along would help them get even richer...
23:38:27CassandraThing is theres a chance someone could sue them if Rockbox bricked their player and they'd given any level of support to it.
23:38:46joesomebodylegal crap, in other words
23:38:58Cassandra(In actual fact I'm pretty sure that this wouldn't work with appropriate disclaimers, but lawyers are paranoid.)
23:39:08Mikachuin america, where you can do something stupid and someone has to pay you for it
23:39:33ZagorI doubt that's the reason for secrecy. I rather think it's just "business as usual".
23:40:05CassandraZagor, yes, but I think that's probably a part of the "business as usual" thing.
23:40:10joesomebodyi wonder if we could get someone prominant like Kevin and Alex on diggnation to talk about it...someone want to do a writeup on their blog and put it up on digg?
23:40:18CassandraIt's all a bit comedy really.
23:40:21Zagorthis is the way the tech world has worked for 20-30 years. some still claim it's for "protecting trade secrets". i suspect most don't even know why they do it.
23:41:07joesomebodyif we could get Kevin Rose interested, the army of geeks for this would get MUCH bigger
23:41:17CassandraYeah, because serial comms is top secret dynamite. And Apple wouldn't get nice fat royalty payments if they opened the protocol.
23:41:23joesomebodythe more people that complain, the more of a chance we have
23:41:51Cassandrajoesomebody, to be honest, I don't think it's worth the effort.
23:41:59joesomebodyit eventually will be cracked...i just don't feel like waiting 15 or 20 years...
23:42:14Zagoris it encrypted?
23:42:31CassandraI suspect in a couple of years Rockbox will be so widely used on iPods that Apple will be grudgingly supporting us the way a lot of hardware manufacturers support Linux.
23:42:33joesomebodyi assume so
23:42:57CassandraThe iPod accessory protocol isn't, no.
23:43:07CassandraOr are you talking about something else?
23:43:17Mikachuwhy don't they just use the usb connection?
23:43:20Zagorthat's what I referred to
23:43:51CassandraMikachu, because the USB connection requires all sorts of USBish overhead.
23:44:03CassandraSerial comms is much less hassle.
23:44:09Mikachuthat's true
23:45:02CassandraI hope Apple will eventually realise that we are making them more money.
23:45:07linuxstbCassandra: You could be in for a hard task if you want to get Rockbox supporting accessories - we (i.e. IPL) don't know how to use the serial port.
23:45:27CassandraWhen corporations figure that out (and it takes a while) they usually get a whole lot more friendly.
23:45:47Mikachuspeaking of weird ipod features, is the builtin beeper thing supported in ipl or rockbox?
23:46:11CassandraMikachu, no-one's bothered yet.
23:46:32Mikachuwould it be possible to play simple waveforms on it?
23:47:09NicoFRamiconn: i tested your updated patch... seems a bit better
23:47:20NicoFRbut the difference is tiny
23:48:04CassandraWhat's missing?
23:49:06CassandraOh, the accessory protocol only goes over serial.
23:49:29CassandraSorry, I mean the headphone style connector.
23:49:42joesomebodyi'm out...see ya guys
23:49:47 Quit joesomebody ()
23:49:47CassandraI'd be surprised if they'd used something entirely different for the dock.
23:49:55ZagorNicoFR: the improvement is for archos models, where the stutter is most noticeable
23:50:13peturhmmm... what wrong with "cvs commit: Using deprecated info format strings."?
23:50:20NicoFRZagor: yeah that's what i thought
23:50:25*Cassandra sighs. Guess I'm going to have to build an iPod to iPod breakout cable then.
23:50:37ZagorCassandra: how do you mean? surely the dock uses the same serial port as the accessories?
23:51:00amiconnZagor, NicoFR: In fact the stutter is most noticeable on devices with *fast* scrolling, which just isn't fast enough to eat *all* events in time
23:51:04CassandraZagor, 3g and 4g iPods have two serial connectors.
23:51:20CassandraOne on the top near to the headphones, one on the dock connector.
23:51:31Cassandra5g iPods only have one on the dock connector.
23:51:47amiconnOn H300 it's not noticeable because event-postponing will happen for practically all repeat events
23:51:54ZagorCassandra: the one on the top is for remote control, not accessories afaik
23:52:22CassandraZagor, nope. Things like the iTrip connect too.
23:52:42CassandraThe second link above is the protocol that runs over it, as far as I can tell.
23:52:42NicoFRamiconn: ok so i shouldn't expect any improvement on my h300 then ?
23:52:43Zagorright, but what does the itrip do on it?
23:52:50amiconnThe simple code would just drop events, leading to stutter
23:52:54Cassandralinuxstb would know more.
23:53:09CassandraZagor, basically takes power and line out.
23:53:12amiconnThe improved version delays all further repeat events until the pending one can be posted
23:53:31Zagorhere's links to both protocols:
23:53:53CassandraZagor, cheers.
23:55:31 Join XavierGr [0] (
23:56:42CassandraThat info looks less comprehensive than the stuff on the ipl wiki though.
23:57:16Cassandra(although the ipl wiki doesn't document the 2g protocol afaik.)
23:57:30 Quit NicoFR ()
23:58:38Cassandraamiconn: What's this patch designed to solve? I never had a problem with key repeats on Archos.

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