| 00:00:31 | Bagder | LGMS: use the normal cygwin installer and find "dev gdb" or something like that |
| 00:00:40 | | Join ender` [0] (i=ychat@84.52.165.220) |
| 00:02:22 | LGMS | Bagder:ok |
| 00:03:02 | Paul_The_Nerd | linuxstb: Have you had scrollwheel troubles in the doom menu? |
| 00:03:54 | Paul_The_Nerd | Sorry, the pregame wad-selection menu? |
| 00:06:00 | | Quit xmixahlx ("blah blah blah") |
| 00:06:56 | linuxstb | Yes - not with the wheel though, but with other buttons. |
| 00:07:01 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 00:07:16 | Paul_The_Nerd | I realized it's hitting select to choose something, causes it to immediately re-enter that menu. |
| 00:07:23 | | Quit ender` (" Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia.") |
| 00:07:29 | Paul_The_Nerd | Like it reads the button twice |
| 00:07:40 | linuxstb | Yes, it seems to be reacting on both button press and button release events. |
| 00:07:49 | midkay | i've had the same, i think it scans for BUTTON_SELECT|BUTTON_REL or something. |
| 00:08:57 | midkay | yay, compiled alright. now the moment of truth.. *ejects ipod* |
| 00:09:39 | midkay | incompatible model.. |
| 00:09:52 | Paul_The_Nerd | Hm. the doom_memory patch definitely has some issues |
| 00:09:57 | * | Paul_The_Nerd goes about compiling it without that patch. |
| 00:11:42 | midkay | ah, the new doom.rock didn't copy over for some reason |
| 00:13:44 | | Join ender` [0] (i=ychat@84.52.165.220) |
| 00:13:45 | midkay | awesome, it works! :D |
| 00:14:04 | | Join damaki__ [0] (n=Chocolat@ALille-153-1-37-6.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 00:14:25 | | Quit BHSPitMonkey (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:14:50 | | Quit xavierk ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 00:15:16 | | Join midkay_ [0] (n=midkay@24.143.70.99) |
| 00:16:33 | midkay_ | alright, so, it runs, and beautifully :D one thing is bugging me - the need for disk spinups (thus making the game lock up for a few seconds) to load stuff.. |
| 00:17:02 | | Quit moozooh (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:17:03 | midkay_ | i'd suggest an option to keep the disk spinning always so you don't need to wait like that.. i'd rather have less battery life than having to stop every 10 seconds :) |
| 00:17:32 | * | Paul_The_Nerd does the "My device is flash based" dance. |
| 00:17:54 | * | midkay_ does the "My device has 15-60x as much storage as yours" dance. |
| 00:17:55 | midkay_ | ;) |
| 00:18:06 | | Quit quobl_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:18:20 | Bagder | Paul_The_Nerd: is that what "Flash Dance" was really about ? |
| 00:18:40 | Paul_The_Nerd | Man, you mean you haven't seen it? Waaaay ahead of its time. |
| 00:18:43 | midkay_ | is there currently any way to get back to the menu? |
| 00:19:00 | | Join quobl_ [0] (n=quobl@tor/session/x-da21a8f944b4672c) |
| 00:19:06 | Bagder | I guess I just didn't understand it |
| 00:19:22 | Paul_The_Nerd | Hehehe |
| 00:21:22 | | Quit Moos ("Glory to Rockbox!") |
| 00:23:29 | | Join OneFix_Work [0] (n=onefix@205.133.146.124) |
| 00:23:53 | OneFix_Work | I have a question...how bad is the skipping on iPod Video builds? |
| 00:24:42 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=XavierGr@ppp89-adsl-132.ath.forthnet.gr) |
| 00:25:37 | LinusN | OneFix_Work: it's somewhere between "not too shabby" and "really awful" |
| 00:26:25 | LinusN | seriously, it all depends on what files you play |
| 00:26:36 | | Join San [0] (n=test@213-202-154-207.bas503.dsl.esat.net) |
| 00:26:48 | | Quit perldiver (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:27:02 | OneFix_Work | well, I know AAC isn't that great on it right now...I'm just trying to figure if I should wait a little while longer |
| 00:27:09 | midkay_ | with the EQ off, pretty much everything plays fine for me.. well, all mp3's and FLAC files.. some AAC.. |
| 00:27:13 | OneFix_Work | LinusN: What about battery life? |
| 00:27:17 | Bagder | waiting is just for cowards ;-) |
| 00:27:25 | LinusN | OneFix_Work: i have no idea |
| 00:28:07 | LinusN | i guess everything will be fixed if we all just sat down and waited for something to happen |
| 00:28:12 | | Join ashridah [0] (i=ashridah@220-253-122-25.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 00:28:14 | OneFix_Work | LinusN: Well, I used iPod Linux on my old Mini...and it was ok, but it wasn't as good as the iPod firmware |
| 00:28:31 | OneFix_Work | I really just want to play OGG files on mine :) |
| 00:28:45 | Bagder | OneFix_Work: I'd suggest you go ahead and try it |
| 00:28:47 | Paul_The_Nerd | Ogg is actually relatively fast on iPod, though not sure how fast on 5g. |
| 00:29:01 | LinusN | ah, now i can finally control the hdd power on the x5 |
| 00:29:05 | OneFix_Work | have the Apple firmware problems been fixed now? |
| 00:29:07 | Bagder | woo |
| 00:29:12 | | Join Moos [0] (i=DrMoos@m53.net81-66-159.noos.fr) |
| 00:29:12 | Paul_The_Nerd | "Apple firmware problems?" |
| 00:29:20 | Bagder | yes, we fixed their problems |
| 00:29:24 | Bagder | :-P |
| 00:29:35 | Moos | LinusN: hi, Congratulations !! |
| 00:29:35 | San | hey |
| 00:29:42 | OneFix_Work | Paul_The_Nerd: Yea, the bootloader patch was causing problems with the Apple firmware |
| 00:29:57 | San | anyone else have no audio on the latest optimized build? |
| 00:30:09 | Paul_The_Nerd | OneFix_Work: What kind of problems? I wasn't aware of ones on 5g, but I may have missed them. |
| 00:30:19 | Bagder | San: I don't think most people here use that |
| 00:30:34 | | Quit damaki_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:30:46 | San | ok |
| 00:30:58 | San | some might do though |
| 00:31:06 | OneFix_Work | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodFAQ#My_Apple_firmware_looks_funny_wh |
| 00:31:12 | OneFix_Work | it may have only been on the 4g |
| 00:32:21 | OneFix_Work | On the Linux4iPod bootloader there also used to be a way to make the apple firmware the default firmware...can you do that with rockbox? |
| 00:33:07 | | Quit midkay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:33:09 | San | ok, fixed it |
| 00:33:23 | San | if anyone asks, for future reference, it was a problem with the EQ |
| 00:33:31 | San | you have to turn it off then it works again |
| 00:33:52 | Bagder | it seems it has is messed up often lately |
| 00:34:00 | Bagder | hm, typing |
| 00:34:22 | Bagder | I'll stop this and go to sleep instead, night! |
| 00:34:30 | Paul_The_Nerd | OneFix_Work: The apple firmware looking funny is only a problem with the grayscale ipods. Yes it's possible to make the apple firmware the default, but you have to compile your own bootloader to do that. |
| 00:34:53 | OneFix_Work | Paul_The_Nerd: Oh, ok |
| 00:35:29 | Paul_The_Nerd | The primary goal of Rockbox is to replace the Apple firmware though. Ideally once you start using it, you won't really feel the desire to use their. (I know I haven't, at least.) |
| 00:36:23 | Paul_The_Nerd | Well, by "Rockbox" I mean "rockbox on ipod" since when it was made for Archos' it probably wasn't intended to replace the Apple firmware. |
| 00:36:42 | | Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:37:04 | OneFix_Work | Paul_The_Nerd: Only a few problems I see right now...and then I would probably have no problem...no Album Art...no Video support that I know of...no podcasting app that works with it... |
| 00:37:17 | San | last question, is anyone working on fixing the scroll bug? |
| 00:37:37 | | Join perldiver [0] (n=say@cpe-66-65-89-236.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:37:43 | midkay_ | scroll bug? |
| 00:37:55 | OneFix_Work | Paul_The_Nerd: Of course it needs to be a little faster, but that is gonna come |
| 00:38:23 | | Quit Moos ("Glory to Rockbox!") |
| 00:38:31 | San | the scrolling is slower than it used to be and when you scroll with music playing the music stops untill you stop scrolling |
| 00:39:06 | | Join doctor [0] (n=doc__@81.198.37.118) |
| 00:39:37 | OneFix_Work | Paul_The_Nerd: For the iPod Video, video support is gonna be the killer app |
| 00:40:09 | Paul_The_Nerd | OneFix_Work: Well, I have a Nano, and usually use my music player for music, so album art and videos don't affect me. Video support may be a little while in coming though. |
| 00:40:10 | OneFix_Work | Wehn I can play AVI, WMV, etc on the RockBox firmware, I'll probably switch |
| 00:40:26 | * | Paul_The_Nerd thinks it may be a while before you switch then. |
| 00:40:43 | Bagder | I don't think Rockbox is for you |
| 00:41:12 | OneFix_Work | Well, I don't do a lot of videos...most of the videos I do a re podcasts... |
| 00:41:16 | | Join Mark_ [0] (n=Mark@ACBD2676.ipt.aol.com) |
| 00:41:39 | | Quit ender` (" The idea is to die young as late as possible.") |
| 00:41:42 | midkay_ | yet you'll wait for a wide range of video support to switch? |
| 00:42:08 | Paul_The_Nerd | midkay_: There are people who won't switch for a wide variety of reasons, some of which baffle me to no end. :) |
| 00:42:18 | midkay_ | Paul_The_Nerd, same.. :) |
| 00:42:34 | Paul_The_Nerd | "The menus don't look pretty" is one of my all time favorites though. |
| 00:43:00 | * | Paul_The_Nerd probably only looks at the screen of his DAP about 5% of the total time it's powered on, if not less. |
| 00:43:27 | OneFix_Work | Well, I guess the main reason is that I now have most of my music in AAC format...and seeing as how RockBox's support for it is not the greatest, that's gonna keep a lot of ipod owners from switching |
| 00:43:34 | midkay_ | yeah, that one's good.. this one may be about the best, though.. "i'll wait for months until video playback supports a wide range of formats.. oh, no, i don't really watch videos, but still.." |
| 00:43:59 | Paul_The_Nerd | OneFix_Work: Well, we're always looking for someone to optimize the AAC codec. :) |
| 00:44:10 | Bagder | OneFix_Work: join in and make it happen |
| 00:44:13 | midkay_ | OneFix_Work, it's not like a permanent switch.. you can always switch between firmware right on the device, as well as completely uninstall rockbox.. |
| 00:45:25 | RotAtoR | hmm, BUTTON_OFF seems to be broken in the sims |
| 00:45:58 | | Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=5343d4aa@labb.contactor.se) |
| 00:46:19 | OneFix_Work | Here's the big question...can the BroadCom chip on the Video do Audio or can it just do Video? |
| 00:46:58 | | Quit Bagder ("Off to search for that connect-resetting peer guy!") |
| 00:48:06 | | Quit lodesi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:48:13 | OneFix_Work | Actually, and I'll let you in on my secret...I switched to Linux4iPod back when I had my Mini...and something happened that skrewed up the database in the apple firmware...I had to reinstall the whole thing...that was 4GB...60GB would really p*ss me off if I had to reinstall it |
| 00:48:52 | Paul_The_Nerd | You may be best sticking with iPod's built in software. |
| 00:48:56 | | Join lodesi [0] (n=moi@d02v-62-34-193-180.d4.club-internet.fr) |
| 00:48:57 | Paul_The_Nerd | Rockbox doesn't use the database. |
| 00:49:07 | OneFix_Work | Paul_The_Nerd: I know that |
| 00:49:44 | Paul_The_Nerd | So, were you to want to use all your music, odds are you'd have to copy it all over again with a proper directory structure just to use rockbox. |
| 00:49:46 | OneFix_Work | But I think the problem was that iTunes no longer recognized the iPod when I tried using it to copy files to it |
| 00:50:18 | OneFix_Work | Paul_The_Nerd: Yea, guess that's true |
| 00:50:38 | OneFix_Work | Does RockBox use PodZilla or is it a seperate app? |
| 00:51:05 | Paul_The_Nerd | Rockbox is its own app entirely, from the kernel up. Not linux based or anything. |
| 00:51:33 | OneFix_Work | Paul_The_Nerd: Really...didn't know that...I thought it was Linux based... |
| 00:51:48 | LinusN | so many people think that, i wonder why |
| 00:52:08 | | Join DJ_Dooms_Day [0] (n=DJDD@220-245-186-182.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 00:52:16 | Paul_The_Nerd | There's a fair portion who also just think it's a modification on the existing firmware. It's strange. |
| 00:52:35 | OneFix_Work | Probably because you give a "Thank You" to the Linux4iPod project... |
| 00:53:18 | linuxstb_ | Probably about 2% of the code in Rockbox for the iPod is from ipodlinux. |
| 00:53:36 | linuxstb_ | But it's a very important 2% - the low-level hardware drivers. |
| 00:53:37 | OneFix_Work | Paul_The_Nerd: Well, I know better than that, but I thought it was really just a distro of the Linux4iPod project |
| 00:54:23 | OneFix_Work | linuxstb: Yea, I figured that...but thought there was more code... |
| 00:54:29 | LinusN | the ipl project deserves a great deal of respect for the remarkable reverse engineering |
| 00:54:42 | Paul_The_Nerd | OneFix_Work: As linuxstb said, other than low level hardware code it's its own thing. Which is why the audio playback tends to be in the "superior" to "vastly superior" range, the boot time in the "wow, that's fast" range, and the application support in the "applications? It's a MUSIC player" range. |
| 00:54:57 | OneFix_Work | I guess that's probably why RockBox can be better than the ipodlinux project...it's more specialized |
| 00:55:00 | imphasing | Rockbox boots way to fast |
| 00:55:01 | imphasing | :) |
| 00:55:11 | imphasing | It never gives me a chance to choose other firmwares |
| 00:55:12 | imphasing | heehee |
| 00:55:41 | | Quit LGMS ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 00:56:59 | OneFix_Work | I guess the real question is...is there work on video support being done...and my guess is that the reason it will take so long it that the BroadCom chip it's based on is probably poorly documented... |
| 00:57:50 | linuxstb_ | undocumented is the word. |
| 00:57:58 | | Nick thegeek_ is now known as thegeek (n=thegeek@s026b.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 00:58:19 | imphasing | And broadcom is a nasty company |
| 00:58:25 | imphasing | They won't do jack |
| 00:58:33 | OneFix_Work | linuxstb: So, it's something else that needs to be fully understood before something can be written for it... |
| 00:58:36 | imphasing | Se we will have to reverse engineer everything to get anything done |
| 00:58:49 | OneFix_Work | imphasing: Yea |
| 00:58:56 | imphasing | OneFix_Work: Hard to use a processor if you won't know what instruction set it uses ;) |
| 00:58:58 | OneFix_Work | imphasing: I understand... |
| 00:59:12 | imphasing | It's possible that it's based on ARC though |
| 00:59:27 | linuxstb_ | Personally, I'm not interested in the video processor. We still have a lot of work to do to properly support audio playback, without worrying about video. |
| 00:59:32 | imphasing | but there's going to be lots of instructions that broadcom created for video processing purposes |
| 00:59:55 | linuxstb_ | And the 5g is only one of the many ipods Rockbox is in the process of being ported to, and there are a tiny number of ipod developers. |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:06 | OneFix_Work | imphasing: Well, since from what I read it only decodes video, it's probably different than most people have worked...from what I read, it's like a programmable hardware decoder |
| 01:00:32 | ashridah | imphasing: heh. you just need to 'promise' to order like 100,000 of them if they'll give you some engineering samples and a set of specs :) |
| 01:00:53 | ashridah | <broadcom> here you go, when can we expect the cheque? |
| 01:00:59 | ashridah | <imphasing> SUCKERS ! |
| 01:01:02 | ashridah | * imphasing runs |
| 01:01:36 | Paprica | mm the ipod color have rtc? |
| 01:01:41 | OneFix_Work | ashridah: Apple is probably pulling an Atari on the market and making sure they horde all of the chips |
| 01:01:49 | linuxstb_ | Paprica: All ipods do AFAIK. |
| 01:02:00 | Paprica | in rockbox too? |
| 01:02:34 | | Quit doctor ("Leaving") |
| 01:02:42 | ashridah | OneFix_Work: i'm not sure, if it's based on the portalplayer, and other manufacturers use portalplayer as well, such as iriver, don't they? |
| 01:02:59 | linuxstb_ | Paprica: Yes. |
| 01:03:05 | Paprica | ok |
| 01:03:06 | Paprica | good |
| 01:03:09 | Paprica | 10x |
| 01:03:28 | ashridah | dont' know if the video is portalplayer's gear tho |
| 01:03:57 | linuxstb_ | The 5g has one portalplayer chip, and one Broadcom chip. A match made in open source hell. |
| 01:04:30 | ashridah | ah, didn't realise the broadcom was an addon by another party |
| 01:04:42 | | Quit Thus0 ("Leaving") |
| 01:04:58 | linuxstb_ | Broadcom _is_ the other party. They are famous for their refusal to help Linux driver developers. |
| 01:05:38 | OneFix_Work | ashridah: Yea, there was some talk about what the broadcom chip was capable of doing...aparently the current Apple firmware only scratches the surface of what it can do... |
| 01:06:20 | OneFix_Work | linuxstb: Right...as is visible by how well they have helped the WiFi community... |
| 01:07:13 | OneFix_Work | linuxstb: Even though they could release a native driver anytime...because the Linksys WRT54G uses a broadcom wireless chip...so there's a module for it |
| 01:09:07 | | Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
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| 01:17:16 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 01:19:54 | | Part LinusN |
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| 01:27:48 | lodesi | hi |
| 01:27:56 | lodesi | i'm trying to build a plugin |
| 01:28:20 | lodesi | and i get an "undefined reference to '_memset'" error ... |
| 01:28:31 | lodesi | while I don't use memset at all |
| 01:28:34 | lodesi | any idea ? |
| 01:29:18 | markun | lodesi: yes, it's an implicit memset |
| 01:29:30 | markun | you can use rb->memset |
| 01:29:43 | markun | can you show me the line where it goes wrong? |
| 01:29:48 | lodesi | i don't have any memset in my plugin.. |
| 01:29:56 | | Quit midkay_ ("Leaving") |
| 01:30:05 | lodesi | no line number its during linking |
| 01:30:12 | lodesi | it's* |
| 01:30:29 | | Nick Shadowarrior13 is now known as Shadow|ushering (i=Shadowar@ip68-3-160-223.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 01:30:34 | linuxstb_ | gcc will be using it behind-the-scenes to initialise something. |
| 01:30:37 | ashridah | lodesi: it's done as part of rockbox's headers, attempting to attach memset to the rb struct |
| 01:30:53 | linuxstb_ | You will need to define your own memset() function, which calls rb->memset() |
| 01:31:28 | * | ashridah shuts up |
| 01:31:46 | | Quit slimx (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:32:27 | lodesi | ok thx, trying it |
| 01:32:36 | linuxstb_ | lodesi: Look in apps/plugins/wav2wv.c for an example |
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| 01:33:35 | lodesi | linuxstb: works well, thx :) |
| 01:38:06 | | Quit muesli- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
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| 01:44:46 | | Part Paul_The_Nerd |
| 01:44:48 | webguest28 | anyone still awake? |
| 01:46:01 | qwm | hahayeah. |
| 01:46:22 | qwm | i'm sitting here. doing nothing. |
| 01:46:27 | webguest28 | oerr groovy |
| 01:46:31 | qwm | yes. |
| 01:46:32 | webguest28 | its a bit like that |
| 01:46:42 | | Quit Strath (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:46:50 | webguest28 | I dont spose you know anything about rockbox on ipods do you :P |
| 01:46:51 | | Join Strath [0] (n=mike@dpc67143207026.direcpc.com) |
| 01:47:26 | qwm | can't say i do. |
| 01:47:28 | qwm | :p |
| 01:47:33 | webguest28 | bugga |
| 01:47:56 | webguest28 | stoopid ipods nothings the same or as easy as it is with other players |
| 01:48:08 | linuxstb_ | What's the problem? |
| 01:50:20 | webguest28 | Eh trying to set backdrops.... I mean I can copy one into the backdrop directory, edit the theme .cfg file to make it bring it up and when I load the theme it works.. but a lot of bloody effort just to change the backdrop.. ive seen on other players you can "show all files" from the file browser and theres an option to set as backdrop from there.. but dunno how to get to either of those options with ipods and its pissing me off grrrr |
| 01:50:48 | linuxstb_ | It's exactly the same on the ipod. |
| 01:51:35 | webguest28 | so how do you get to the "show all files" menu |
| 01:51:46 | webguest28 | hodl you obviously cant hold down "a+b" |
| 01:52:07 | linuxstb_ | Err, press "menu"... |
| 01:53:53 | | Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC") |
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| 02:00 |
| 02:01:55 | webguest28 | bah didnt realise there was an option in the settings for filenames. yay |
| 02:01:57 | webguest28 | danke |
| 02:02:01 | | Quit webguest28 ("CGI:IRC") |
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| 02:17:49 | | Join Jungti1234 [0] (n=jungti12@124.60.15.86) |
| 02:28:29 | Jungti1234 | hi |
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| 02:54:20 | infamis | I'm trying to understand the rockbox architecture...is there a main thread for UI? |
| 02:56:07 | Jungti1234 | Rockbox UI? |
| 02:57:14 | infamis | yeah...what happens when Ipress this or that key...how does it get routed |
| 02:57:24 | infamis | I'm trying to find that in the source |
| 02:58:12 | Jungti1234 | um |
| 02:58:24 | Jungti1234 | Perhaps... http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DocsIndex#Rockbox_Design_Docs |
| 03:00 |
| 03:00:26 | Jungti1234 | Is it right? |
| 03:00:33 | infamis | hm...I read that before but didn't really seem to show what I needed |
| 03:01:00 | Jungti1234 | ah... |
| 03:01:15 | infamis | for ex: in apps/main.c that's where the firmware starts & where the while(1) loop is |
| 03:01:27 | infamis | but where are the keyhandlers or whatever? |
| 03:02:29 | infamis | interrupt handlers I guess? |
| 03:02:49 | linuxstb | All the low-level hardware drivers, and the Rockbox kernel are in firmware/ |
| 03:03:01 | linuxstb | The button driver is firmware/drivers/button.c |
| 03:06:36 | virtualball2 | I have a question, i know C and i was wondering, how do i compile .c files into .rock files? |
| 03:07:07 | linuxstb | Put your .c file in apps/plugins/ and add the name of your file to apps/plugins/SOURCES |
| 03:07:20 | linuxstb | Have a look at the helloworld.c example. |
| 03:07:30 | linuxstb | (which isn't in SOURCES, so isn't compiled) |
| 03:07:50 | virtualball2 | ok thanks |
| 03:08:17 | virtualball2 | and is there a wiki page for the lcd commands...i cant navigate your wiki :P |
| 03:08:25 | linuxstb | GraphicsAPI |
| 03:08:40 | virtualball2 | mkay thanks |
| 03:11:32 | infamis | is there a debug screen accessible from inside the sim anywhere? (in other words where can I get the DEBUGF outputs)? |
| 03:11:37 | | Quit Daishi (Remote closed the connection) |
| 03:12:02 | virtualball2 | isnt there a debug setting thing in the info menu? |
| 03:12:32 | infamis | I can't even get to the menu though |
| 03:12:35 | infamis | on the x5 sim |
| 03:12:47 | virtualball2 | sorry then i dont know what to do |
| 03:14:03 | linuxstb | Are you using Windows and SDL? |
| 03:15:27 | infamis | yeah |
| 03:15:30 | infamis | under cygwin |
| 03:16:03 | virtualball2 | Mac here |
| 03:16:10 | * | virtualball2 loves mac lol |
| 03:16:19 | * | infamis doesn't |
| 03:16:26 | virtualball2 | ... lol |
| 03:16:54 | linuxstb | DEBUGF should print to the console - but that doesn't work in the SDL sim under Windows. |
| 03:17:06 | linuxstb | Hopefully someone is looking into it... |
| 03:17:10 | infamis | hmm... |
| 03:17:17 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 03:17:59 | linuxstb | How are you running the sim? Are you typing "rockboxui" from cygwin, or double-clicking on it? |
| 03:17:59 | infamis | I might as well start using linux sometimes...I only use it for perl/php devel (even though php works in windows) |
| 03:18:10 | infamis | ./rockboxui −−background |
| 03:18:32 | linuxstb | OK - I thought it might be working if you start it from the command-line. But obviously not. |
| 03:18:56 | infamis | dbl clicking always gives that msgbox err |
| 03:18:59 | linuxstb | You'll find that Rockbox itself compiles a _lot_ faster under Linux. |
| 03:19:38 | infamis | yea, I'm aware of that...I wouldn't think about building a linux krnl under cygwin...even if it was possible! |
| 03:20:39 | linuxstb | Are you planning on helping with the x5 port? |
| 03:20:58 | infamis | yea...once I learn enough! |
| 03:21:26 | linuxstb | Working with the sim - and making the higher-level parts of the port work is a good way to learn. |
| 03:21:26 | infamis | I used to be into computers heaviliy around '01..got a job as an ASP programmer & it seems I lost everything I once knew before I got the job. 5 years of ASP really dumbs yo u down |
| 03:21:52 | infamis | yeah |
| 03:22:25 | infamis | *5 years of nothing but ASP |
| 03:23:42 | infamis | I barely know C anymore...lol |
| 03:25:12 | infamis | I'm out |
| 03:25:13 | | Quit infamis ("food") |
| 03:46:24 | josh_ | 18:16 < linuxstb> DEBUGF should print to the console - but that doesn't work in the SDL sim under Windows. |
| 03:46:32 | josh_ | linuxstb: on Windows, SDL redirects stdout and stderr to files |
| 03:46:39 | josh_ | try freopening them to "con" maybe |
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| 07:00 |
| 07:04:28 | josh_ | anyone know why Rockbox can't use the helix decoding libraries? |
| 07:05:27 | ashridah | i don't recall the helix licenses being particularly GPL compatible |
| 07:05:43 | josh_ | http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLIncompatibleLibs |
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| 07:05:58 | josh_ | "What legal issues come up if I use GPL-incompatible libraries with GPL software?" |
| 07:06:13 | josh_ | basically, it's OK iff you put a "special exception" in the GPL blurb for Rockbox |
| 07:06:36 | ashridah | the rockbox team tend to prefer using the GPL on all of the code. |
| 07:06:41 | josh_ | ah ok |
| 07:07:13 | ashridah | and not all of the code was contributed by current members, the authors of the mp3 codec may complain if we hook their GPL'ed code up with rockbox, and then use rockbox to hook it up to something less than free |
| 07:08:42 | thegeek | the strength and backbone of rockbox is the gpl |
| 07:11:16 | ashridah | but yes, i seem to recall that the helix license is kinda nonfree. the player itself is fairly opensource, but many of the codecs have click-wrap EULA's and whatnot before you can get to them |
| 07:13:03 | ashridah | besides, which codecs do you expect to get out of them? are they fixed-point arithmetic based? |
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| 07:21:37 | ashridah | hell, according to the helixcommunity.org site, to use the AAC fixed point implementation they've got you've still got to buy a license for some patents |
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| 07:22:26 | ashridah | as for realaudio, it's commercial, full stop |
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| 08:14:10 | amiconn | mornin |
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| 08:17:29 | saratoga | ashridah: Regarding Helix AAC patents, that has nothing to do with Real's licenseing and everything to do with the fact that MS, fhg, and several other companies own patents required to implement AAC |
| 08:18:49 | saratoga | so technically, you can only distrubute AAC with their permission, as detailed on the licensing page: http://www.vialicensing.com/products/mpeg4aac/licenseFAQ.html |
| 08:19:17 | | Join Moos [0] (i=DrMoos@m53.net81-66-159.noos.fr) |
| 08:19:42 | saratoga | though the issue of software patents is not cut and dry in many countries like it is in the US |
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| 08:24:40 | midkay | amiconn, morning :) can you tell me how to get the effect lcd_clearrect used to achieve before your new-fangled drawing modes? :) |
| 08:24:59 | | Quit damaki__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 08:25:26 | amiconn | It's rather simple and straightforward, and I had to convert all plugins to use it |
| 08:25:46 | midkay | i see DRMODE_INVERSEVID all over.. |
| 08:25:51 | midkay | but it seems to always work differently :) |
| 08:25:53 | amiconn | clock.c was a huge effort, since it has tons of linear code calling lcd funcs over and over |
| 08:26:04 | midkay | i never figured out how it works.. yeah.. i'm trying to do some simplification right now actually |
| 08:26:09 | midkay | you should be pleasantly surprised :) |
| 08:26:32 | amiconn | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GraphicsAPI |
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| 08:26:41 | midkay | may i quote.. 22.03.35 # <amiconn> Imho the clock plugin shows what happens if you don't care for code size (sorry midk). It is the second largest plugin code-wise, much larger than what I would expect concerning its functionality |
| 08:26:47 | midkay | :)) that gave me a laugh :) |
| 08:27:02 | midkay | thx for the link, i'll read up |
| 08:27:04 | amiconn | set drawmode to (DRMODE_SOLID|DRMODE_INVERSEVID), the use lcd_fillrect() |
| 08:27:29 | midkay | also, by the way - is there a major difference in battery life/cpu usage between polling buttons at, say HZ/4 vs HZ/10 vs HZ/100? |
| 08:28:17 | amiconn | It depends on the target, and on what you're doing in the loop itself |
| 08:29:17 | amiconn | As long as you're waiting, the CPU is sleeping almost all the time, saving power |
| 08:29:29 | midkay | is HZ/100 almost unrealistic in most cases? for a game, say like.. brickmania.. |
| 08:30:00 | Mikachu | it makes no sense to redraw the screen and not poll the buttons |
| 08:30:00 | amiconn | It is unrealistic on a lot of targets |
| 08:31:05 | amiconn | We can't do lcd refresh @ 100 fps |
| 08:31:21 | Mikachu | right, i got the factors backwards |
| 08:31:31 | midkay | gotcha - thanks |
| 08:31:37 | amiconn | HZ is one second |
| 08:32:10 | midkay | btw, whoever's responsible for the graphics |
| 08:32:10 | midkay | API doc (amiconn?) - nice! well laid-out :) |
| 08:32:12 | Mikachu | strange name for it |
| 08:32:23 | midkay | wtf, why did that end up on two lines.. |
| 08:33:15 | amiconn | Mikachu: This is because HZ actually is a factor. It tells how many ticks are one second, i.e. how many Hz is the tick frequency |
| 08:34:28 | amiconn | The timeout is almost everywhere given in ticks |
| 08:35:05 | amiconn | This way the tick frequency could easily be changed, but all targets use HZ=100 (10 milliseconds) so far |
| 08:35:55 | amiconn | midkay: (gfx api docs) thanks. Yes that was me |
| 08:36:10 | midkay | beautiful :) |
| 08:36:34 | midkay | btw, one more question.. does a function to calculate circle coordinates sound unreasonable? |
| 08:37:10 | midkay | i guess rather unuseful.. thinking about the clock drawing |
| 08:37:19 | midkay | i guess i could always include one in the plugin itself |
| 08:37:34 | midkay | useful for scaling to different screen sizes, rather than a ton of different arrays |
| 08:37:53 | amiconn | Yes. Some plugins already have a table-based fixed point sine function |
| 08:38:13 | amiconn | Check cube.c, bounce.c .... |
| 08:39:03 | midkay | right, they have their circles set up in arrays.. |
| 08:39:42 | midkay | i'd like a function to do that automatically based on screen size.. Linus sent me a script to generate circle tables like that when i first started working on the clock plugin, i wonder if i still have it. |
| 08:40:49 | amiconn | Ah, yes, bounce.c uses a fixed table. |
| 08:41:01 | amiconn | This needs to be changed anyway, maybe I'll do that sooon |
| 08:41:24 | amiconn | cube.c has a table based sine function which can in turn be used to calculate circle coordinates |
| 08:41:47 | | Quit damaki (Connection timed out) |
| 08:41:59 | midkay | amiconn, right, i noticed bounce is screwed up for other sizes - it uses LCD_WIDTH as the center of the clock hands, but the table remains 112x64-sized.. |
| 08:42:10 | amiconn | yes |
| 08:42:13 | midkay | i'll check out cube.. |
| 08:42:19 | amiconn | Looks funny on H300... |
| 08:42:33 | amiconn | H140 has no rtc, so the problem doesn't arise |
| 08:42:33 | midkay | yeah, funnier on ipod 5g :) |
| 08:42:39 | midkay | ah, right.. |
| 08:42:48 | midkay | ondios don't either, right?? |
| 08:43:04 | amiconn | yep, but they wouldn't have a problem if they did |
| 08:43:13 | amiconn | They have the same lcd as the recorders |
| 08:43:35 | midkay | right - just checking for clock compatibility.. |
| 08:43:56 | amiconn | clock should (ideally) run on: |
| 08:44:16 | amiconn | (already supported) recorder v1, recorder v2, fm recorder. |
| 08:44:19 | midkay | it should be compatible for every model with an RTC now (H300, iPods and archos recorders).. i actually haven't been able to find anyone to test the keymap i've got for the H300, maybe you're up to the task? :) |
| 08:44:25 | amiconn | (new) H300, all iPods |
| 08:45:04 | Mikachu | does rb have timezone data and stuff? |
| 08:45:11 | amiconn | no |
| 08:45:37 | midkay | i have it set up to "fake" the LCD width and height - the result is a small display on larger-LCD models.. temporarily :) |
| 08:45:40 | amiconn | It just uses local time, as do most non- *nix OSes |
| 08:45:49 | midkay | after cleaning up the code a bit more i'll commit it like this, and then get to scaling it up.. |
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| 08:46:58 | amiconn | Mikachu: One goal (even requirement) of rockbox is to be compact and simple. |
| 08:47:22 | amiconn | It is running on an embedded device, wasting resources would be a bad idea |
| 08:47:32 | Mikachu | i have no idea how much resources time zone data would take |
| 08:47:52 | amiconn | It would definitely take code and table space |
| 08:48:19 | amiconn | ..for functions which aren't needed at all |
| 08:48:37 | amiconn | - FAT32 time stamps are local time |
| 08:48:53 | amiconn | - some targets don't even have a real time clock |
| 08:50:21 | * | amiconn wonders why people asking for features which aren't really appropriate for embedded devices over and over |
| 08:50:30 | * | amiconn wonders about a lot of things recently |
| 08:50:35 | Mikachu | i was just thinking about dst |
| 08:51:55 | amiconn | Automatic DST could be supported w/o timezone data |
| 08:52:05 | Mikachu | i could never get the time set correctly in apple os, either the status bar was right or the world clock was, never both at the same time |
| 08:52:32 | Mikachu | it would need the dst info for at least one country |
| 08:53:01 | Mikachu | but that is probably not so large |
| 08:53:13 | amiconn | yes |
| 08:53:43 | amiconn | It could be a user setting; rockbox could even provide .cfg files with that info for various countries |
| 08:53:48 | Mikachu | and i guess if you wanted a world clock, that plugin could have the data |
| 08:53:54 | amiconn | yep |
| 08:54:08 | * | midkay sniffs out a new clock feature |
| 08:54:09 | midkay | ;) |
| 08:54:12 | Mikachu | but it's not as easy as just setting two dates, it's always between a saturday and sunday i think |
| 08:54:27 | Mikachu | at least in sweden :) |
| 08:54:36 | amiconn | Yes, they aren't fixed dates, they include some calculation |
| 08:54:57 | amiconn | There seems to be a quite common format to give dst data: |
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| 08:55:49 | | Join yeahx [0] (n=aarond@c-67-160-124-13.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 08:56:02 | amiconn | <month> (<day> / <weekday> <no-of-week>) HH:MM |
| 08:56:23 | amiconn | no-of-week can be either 1..4 or 'last' |
| 08:56:34 | | Join SereR0kR [0] (n=Fletcher@Fd149.f.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 08:56:49 | amiconn | In germany it's March Sunday last 02:00 and October Sunday last 03:00 |
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| 09:08:30 | Administrator | it's so terrible the gerbil has to die |
| 09:09:00 | midkay | yes, it's just awful. |
| 09:09:14 | | Nick Administrator is now known as orthogonal (n=chatzill@c-24-30-242-135.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 09:09:21 | Mark_ | novimon, the gerbil was a dick |
| 09:09:25 | Mark_ | he had it coming |
| 09:09:37 | Mark_ | noviwhat now? |
| 09:09:47 | midkay | haha. |
| 09:09:49 | Mark_ | stupid xchat thinking i was refering to someone |
| 09:10:02 | Mark_ | i said "no, the..." |
| 09:10:19 | | Quit damaki_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:10:25 | midkay | uncheck "automatic nick completion" in the Input Box section of Settings-Preferences.. :) |
| 09:10:26 | orthogonal | anybody know earHurts? Or earHertz? |
| 09:10:32 | midkay | i do! did. |
| 09:10:45 | orthogonal | midkay: minight2k? |
| 09:10:46 | midkay | it's you. |
| 09:10:49 | orthogonal | Yes |
| 09:10:50 | midkay | :) |
| 09:10:56 | midkay | yes, that was me :) |
| 09:11:12 | orthogonal | I'm flattered anyone recaslsl me |
| 09:11:27 | orthogonal | My archos broke, you see |
| 09:11:30 | midkay | haha. i could never forget! you're such a weirdo ;) |
| 09:11:36 | orthogonal | well, yes ;) |
| 09:12:20 | orthogonal | the guys I sent ithe archos to for repair screwed it up |
| 09:12:30 | orthogonal | But now I have an ipod |
| 09:12:36 | midkay | geniuses.. oh, very cool :) |
| 09:12:38 | midkay | what model? |
| 09:12:49 | orthogonal | 5g |
| 09:12:53 | midkay | awesome, same :) |
| 09:13:11 | orthogonal | oh really? |
| 09:13:19 | midkay | yep :) |
| 09:13:26 | orthogonal | have you installed rockbox on your ipod? |
| 09:13:28 | Mark_ | YOU TWO HAVE SO MUCH IN COMMON |
| 09:13:32 | Mark_ | YOU SHOULD GET MARRIED |
| 09:13:34 | midkay | yes :) hahaha |
| 09:13:51 | orthogonal | Mark_: how much code have you contrbuted to the Rockbox project? |
| 09:14:07 | midkay | give him a break. he's an AOL user. |
| 09:14:22 | Mark_ | about 20 lines of wps code, and a few images which are used in cvs distributed WPSs :P |
| 09:14:26 | Mark_ | so fuck all basically |
| 09:14:51 | orthogonal | Mark_: I did a bit og the id3 stuff. Genre and composers support |
| 09:15:09 | orthogonal | and that poer-saving proff-of-concept; |
| 09:15:39 | orthogonal | wonder if anyone ever got any use from teh poeer save business? |
| 09:15:59 | midkay | orthogonal, of course not ;) |
| 09:16:23 | orthogonal | well, once my archos broke down, it was ghjhard to keep testing, ahem. |
| 09:16:23 | Mark_ | poeer? |
| 09:16:31 | orthogonal | power |
| 09:16:35 | Mark_ | ohhhhhh. |
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| 09:17:29 | orthogonal | So midkay, how's rb on the ipod? |
| 09:17:36 | midkay | orthogonal, delicious :) |
| 09:17:50 | orthogonal | but it doesn't do video, right? |
| 09:18:00 | midkay | nope, not yet.. |
| 09:18:17 | midkay | you can boot between the original OS and rockbox right on the device, though.. |
| 09:18:25 | orthogonal | but it does sound on the video ipod? |
| 09:18:46 | midkay | yes.. there's an EQ that kills MP3 playback as it is.. but FLAC and some AAC works wonderfully |
| 09:18:47 | orthogonal | from ipod to rb, or just rb to ipod, like onm teh archos? |
| 09:18:49 | midkay | as does MP3 with the EQ off.. |
| 09:19:10 | midkay | um, you just hold menu while it boots to go to the original firmware.. it's not like ROLO |
| 09:19:12 | orthogonal | wait, if you use an eq zetting, mp3s don't play? |
| 09:19:32 | midkay | it seems to slow down buffering majorly or something - the buffer empties quick and playback stutters after that.. |
| 09:19:43 | orthogonal | how odd |
| 09:20:00 | orthogonal | is teh dev team mostly the same, or not? |
| 09:20:05 | midkay | yeah, flac works great though |
| 09:20:24 | midkay | hm, most of the same old, many new :) |
| 09:20:27 | orthogonal | well, sure flac is simple |
| 09:20:49 | midkay | no decompressing to do - still, with the bitrate of the files i'd expect it to have a bit more trouble.. |
| 09:21:00 | midkay | -no+less |
| 09:21:10 | orthogonal | how's power comsumption on rb compare to ipod firmware? |
| 09:21:29 | midkay | general consensus seems to be "less".. battery meter isn't enabled yet, so i can't really tell.. |
| 09:22:20 | midkay | cool to have and mess with but not a perfect alternative quite yet - some cool fullscreen, color games though :) |
| 09:22:21 | Paul_The_Nerd | Less battery life he means |
| 09:22:32 | midkay | oh, yeah. |
| 09:22:53 | Paul_The_Nerd | Also, ogg tends to work better than MP3 at the moment, at the same bitrates. |
| 09:23:02 | orthogonal | My main beef with teh ipod is teh wps screen |
| 09:23:27 | midkay | orthogonal, the apple OS one? |
| 09:23:37 | yeahx | I need to find a nice ogg setting and convert a bunch of stuff to test it out better |
| 09:23:42 | orthogonal | in fcat, the same thing that impelled me to contribnute to rockbox way back when: no genre or composer on teh wps |
| 09:23:47 | midkay | kind of a waste of space, yeah.. i don't mind it too much though |
| 09:23:54 | orthogonal | midkay: yes, the apple firmware |
| 09:24:03 | yeahx | I thought I had a good setting but its telling me the bitrates are a little high in some |
| 09:24:05 | midkay | orthogonal, crossfading on rockbox though - that's very cool :) |
| 09:24:15 | orthogonal | !!! |
| 09:24:16 | midkay | + gapless.. |
| 09:24:22 | orthogonal | wait, rb can xfade? |
| 09:24:28 | midkay | yes :) |
| 09:24:28 | amiconn | hmm, no bagder... |
| 09:24:44 | orthogonal | we couldn't do that on the archos |
| 09:24:54 | Paul_The_Nerd | Since it's a software decoder, they can now. |
| 09:24:55 | midkay | right, only for software codec platforms i believe |
| 09:24:59 | Paul_The_Nerd | On the swcodec platforms |
| 09:25:15 | orthogonal | Paul_The_Nerd: mp3 is sw or hw on the ipod 5g? |
| 09:25:23 | midkay | orthogonal, there's also wav and ogg support - haven't tried those yet |
| 09:25:36 | orthogonal | well, wav I don't want, for the obvious reason |
| 09:25:43 | midkay | massive ;) |
| 09:25:50 | orthogonal | and ogg, I don'rt want to transcode my mp3s. |
| 09:25:51 | yeahx | there is doom for rockbox now? |
| 09:26:09 | Paul_The_Nerd | orthogonal: Everything is software on everything non-archos so far. |
| 09:26:16 | | Join aliask [0] (n=chatzill@c210-49-190-113.eburwd8.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 09:26:41 | yeahx | its handy if you find something only in ogg, there are a few things out there like that |
| 09:26:55 | orthogonal | Paul_The_Nerd: on teh apple firmware it's hardware though, right? |
| 09:27:01 | midkay | yeahx, it runs for me on my ipod 5g - seems to work on nanos and H300s too |
| 09:27:23 | orthogonal | midkay: how long have you been riunning rb on the 5g? |
| 09:27:35 | yeahx | how do you get it working on a nano? where do you get it? |
| 09:27:36 | Paul_The_Nerd | orthogonal: No, it's software. |
| 09:27:51 | orthogonal | Paul_The_Nerd: REALLY? |
| 09:27:55 | orthogonal | that's interesting |
| 09:27:56 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah. |
| 09:27:58 | midkay | orthogonal, a month perhaps.. |
| 09:28:06 | orthogonal | midkay: any probs? |
| 09:28:08 | Paul_The_Nerd | yeahx: It's in the patch tracker. |
| 09:28:16 | midkay | haven't used it much until the past week or so |
| 09:28:22 | yeahx | Id like to try it out just to show to friends |
| 09:28:25 | midkay | when audio support + faster LCD driver kicked in |
| 09:28:27 | yeahx | aah ok, nevermind |
| 09:28:29 | orthogonal | midkay: arrgh! ;) |
| 09:28:38 | midkay | orthogonal, other than mp3 stutters with eq on - no, not really :) |
| 09:28:52 | perplexity | please don't tell me rockbox is functional with audio on the ipod video.. coz then I just will have to go and get one.. |
| 09:28:52 | Paul_The_Nerd | orthogonal: At least, I'm pretty sure it's software. If you use the debug mode, you can see the how much the load changes as the bitrate changes in a vbr file. |
| 09:28:54 | orthogonal | didn't I help you write a .rock one time? |
| 09:29:04 | midkay | perplexity, i won't say a word ;) |
| 09:29:08 | perplexity | thanks :) |
| 09:29:16 | midkay | orthogonal, the clock? yes :) |
| 09:29:18 | orthogonal | Paul_The_Nerd: how much does the load change anyway? |
| 09:29:21 | midkay | you're still in the credits :) |
| 09:29:36 | orthogonal | midkay: are you doing any coding these days? |
| 09:29:41 | orthogonal | No shit? |
| 09:29:43 | orthogonal | thanks |
| 09:30:04 | midkay | haha. getting back into rockbox - almost done with a clock update adding more model support.. |
| 09:30:05 | Paul_The_Nerd | orthogonal: On the iPod nano, with some vbr files I've got, where there's silence, and then sudden complexity, the load doesn't actually change fast enough and the Retail OS has a buffer underrun and the music skips. Rockbox doesn't have this problem. :) |
| 09:30:09 | midkay | and space invaders :) |
| 09:30:30 | Paul_The_Nerd | I don't remember the exact change in load, but it was enough that they didn't handle it well. |
| 09:30:45 | Paul_The_Nerd | Apparently it's a common problem with lame-encoded VBR music. |
| 09:30:50 | orthogonal | Paul_The_Nerd: you're suggesting teh rockbox sw is superior?? |
| 09:31:13 | Paul_The_Nerd | Well, my music skipped in the apple software. It does not in rockbox. |
| 09:31:19 | orthogonal | amazing |
| 09:31:37 | Paul_The_Nerd | Take that how you will, I have a Nano so I don't have the slow LCD issue on the 5g (which I believe affects things very little now, compared to before) |
| 09:31:39 | orthogonal | I know rb is far superior to archos's crap sw, but I'd thought apple would do better |
| 09:31:54 | midkay | Paul_The_Nerd, it's running quite well now (5g lcd) |
| 09:32:39 | midkay | orthogonal, other than the inability to use EQ with mp3's.. i'd say definitely rockbox, unless you play a lot of videos - crossfading and gapless is nice, as well as all the options + plugins + custom WPS stuff.. |
| 09:33:05 | orthogonal | I only have a few videos |
| 09:33:17 | orthogonal | But I have a lot of podcasts |
| 09:33:18 | midkay | you can always quickly boot back to apple os for that |
| 09:33:24 | orthogonal | Oh! |
| 09:33:26 | Paul_The_Nerd | I think EQ with MP3s depends on your mp3's bitrate. |
| 09:33:26 | midkay | hm, i'm not sure how those work.. |
| 09:33:42 | midkay | Paul_The_Nerd, i've done it on as low as 160kbit mp3s.. always seems to kill playback |
| 09:33:46 | orthogonal | midkay, I don't know how much coding you've learned since we last spoke |
| 09:33:53 | midkay | orthogonal, hopefully a lot :) |
| 09:34:02 | orthogonal | but UCBerkely hasd free podcasts of programming classes if you're interested |
| 09:34:18 | Paul_The_Nerd | Though at the moment, on Nano, rockbox boosts something like 68% of the time with a 128kbps mp3, and 74% with a 320, which seems a bit small of a range. |
| 09:34:20 | midkay | never tried podcasts, cool - maybe i shall soon :) |
| 09:34:47 | midkay | Paul_The_Nerd, what do you mean? |
| 09:35:03 | midkay | battery life? boosts? i thought it was lower, was i wrong? |
| 09:35:19 | Paul_The_Nerd | midkay: I've got a patch that makes the processor behave like it does on the iriver. It runs at a low speed (30mhz) and boosts to 75 when the PCM buffer gets low, to refill it. |
| 09:35:43 | Paul_The_Nerd | battery life on rockbox is definitely lower than with retail OS at the moment, yes. |
| 09:35:46 | midkay | Paul_The_Nerd, awesome - why isn't it in cvs? :) |
| 09:36:01 | Paul_The_Nerd | midkay: It's not my patch, for one thing. |
| 09:36:07 | Paul_The_Nerd | midkay: It also has problems on 4Gs. |
| 09:36:23 | Paul_The_Nerd | I can't remember which of linuxstb and preglow made it, at the moment. |
| 09:36:24 | midkay | hm. sounds pretty cool.. |
| 09:36:37 | Paul_The_Nerd | It'll improve battery life, once it works. |
| 09:37:17 | midkay | great - i just can't wait for a faster mp3 codec or something that makes it more efficient |
| 09:37:34 | midkay | eq sounds great, but it's a shame i can't use it for now.. and bass/treble doesn't work either |
| 09:37:34 | Paul_The_Nerd | I think it's less of needing a faster mp3 codec, as just optimizing the one we've got. |
| 09:37:46 | midkay | yeah, that :) |
| 09:38:21 | Paul_The_Nerd | Since at the moment it's slower than the ogg vorbis codec on iPods, when it's faster on iRiver. But the ogg one had built in arm optimizations that the mp3 one doesn't, if I understand correctly. |
| 09:38:40 | midkay | ah, i see |
| 09:39:00 | orthogonal | midkay: did you do that foobar2000 itunesdb rebuild thingie? |
| 09:39:23 | midkay | orthogonal, no, i don't have much music so i just recopied it all to a seperate folder with artist -> album -> song structure |
| 09:39:31 | orthogonal | lol |
| 09:39:31 | midkay | that was before i heard of the rebuild thing though |
| 09:39:35 | midkay | i'm think of doing that |
| 09:39:53 | orthogonal | I have about 40gb and another 6 gb yet to add |
| 09:40:26 | | Join Higgy_ [0] (n=not_eric@client-82-18-249-85.brhm.adsl.ntlworld.com) |
| 09:40:33 | | Quit Strath (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 09:40:38 | midkay | haha, nice |
| 09:40:45 | orthogonal | al;l legal, from emusic, btw |
| 09:40:53 | midkay | ah, yeah, you're that emusic whore ;) |
| 09:41:52 | | Join Strath [0] (n=mike@dpc67143207026.direcpc.com) |
| 09:41:56 | orthogonal | I was |
| 09:41:59 | orthogonal | I left emusic |
| 09:42:14 | orthogonal | but I did write a freeware tool to allow emusic user to list what they'd downloaded |
| 09:42:21 | midkay | cool :) |
| 09:43:14 | orthogonal | you use firefox? |
| 09:43:26 | midkay | yep |
| 09:43:37 | orthogonal | heare, I wriote this too: http://www.diffenbach.org/back-is-close/usage.html |
| 09:44:39 | midkay | very cool! *installs* :) |
| 09:44:55 | midkay | i usually use ctrl+w .. but definitely would be nice to have :) |
| 09:45:05 | orthogonal | it's useful if you have lots of tabs |
| 09:45:13 | midkay | i'm a tab user alright.. |
| 09:45:27 | orthogonal | be sure to check the optiosn dialog to set it up |
| 09:45:27 | midkay | ctrl+w is usually quickest for me, i might have to change that habit though :) |
| 09:45:47 | orthogonal | Oh, and you''ll have to set your mosue to send alt+left arrow |
| 09:47:58 | midkay | i'll have to install my mouse software for that.. |
| 09:48:19 | midkay | thanks though! very useful :D |
| 09:48:23 | midkay | nice job! |
| 09:48:25 | orthogonal | Firebox doesn't giave a way to catch teh "Back" special key. ;( |
| 09:48:29 | orthogonal | thanks |
| 09:48:31 | midkay | yeah, damn |
| 09:51:11 | midkay | so what's up? |
| 09:51:39 | orthogonal | Not much |
| 09:51:45 | | Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@ipa222.13.tellas.gr) |
| 09:51:48 | orthogonal | Just got the ipod for xmas |
| 09:52:01 | midkay | cool :) |
| 09:52:04 | orthogonal | Didn't realize rthe rb for ipod was worjking until tonight |
| 09:52:17 | orthogonal | I checked in jnuary, figured it would take longer |
| 09:52:20 | midkay | haha, awesome :) |
| 09:52:34 | orthogonal | and now I'm going to install it. |
| 09:52:49 | orthogonal | the lack of genre and composer is getting to me, see ;) |
| 09:53:17 | midkay | hahaha :) |
| 09:53:47 | orthogonal | Do you play much classical music? |
| 09:53:59 | midkay | no, none :) |
| 09:54:23 | | Quit yeahx () |
| 09:54:30 | orthogonal | much classical music has simuilar names. Indded teh "song" names are really directions how to play it: "fast", "slow", whatevcer |
| 09:54:47 | orthogonal | without a composer, it's a bit opaque what you're playing |
| 09:54:57 | midkay | haha, ah, i see :) |
| 09:55:00 | orthogonal | but I hate putting the composer in the album name |
| 09:55:07 | midkay | right |
| 09:55:08 | orthogonal | because that just sucks ass |
| 09:55:23 | midkay | WPS' are really fun now - tons more tags and much larger screen = yay :) |
| 09:55:29 | midkay | and bitmaps.. |
| 09:55:30 | orthogonal | (although if tqo differnt albums have teh same name, itunes thinks thwey're th esame album) |
| 09:55:51 | midkay | right |
| 09:55:52 | orthogonal | heh. I wonder if they used my tag schme or not |
| 09:55:52 | midkay | darn apple |
| 09:55:59 | midkay | haha, what? |
| 09:56:09 | orthogonal | whenm I added composer and genre (and a few othwers) |
| 09:56:22 | orthogonal | I made an estensible way to add more, that would also be efficuient. |
| 09:56:31 | midkay | hmm |
| 09:56:40 | orthogonal | but it wasn't the most obvious code, because it was trying to be efficient |
| 09:57:11 | orthogonal | you remember how we had that code size limitation on the archos? |
| 09:57:11 | midkay | yeah |
| 09:57:17 | midkay | yeah |
| 09:57:31 | orthogonal | So all id3 tags are four characters long |
| 09:57:51 | orthogonal | I set it up so they weren't treated as stringsm, becasus ethat adds te h0 ternm,inatyor |
| 09:57:56 | orthogonal | terminator |
| 09:58:13 | orthogonal | and a double indirection |
| 09:58:28 | midkay | haha. you and your technical mumbo-jumbo :) |
| 09:59:33 | orthogonal | an array of pointers to arrsays exacrly for char in length |
| 09:59:52 | amiconn | We still need to keep more than one eye on code size, even though the hard 200KB limit on archos is lifted now |
| 10:00 |
| 10:00:49 | midkay | orthogonal, .. ok ;) |
| 10:00:53 | orthogonal | amiconn: yeah, the other problem wa sthat we (at that time) only allocated 300 bytes for all id3 tags, and that was statically allocated |
| 10:01:15 | | Quit tvelocity ("Αποχώρησε") |
| 10:01:16 | orthogonal | and I tend to have long id3 tags |
| 10:01:23 | amiconn | We would get into trouble again if the compressed size approaches 200KB, but there are other things which should us keep farther away from that limit |
| 10:02:14 | orthogonal | amiconn: we compress for the archios, then decompress into memorty? |
| 10:02:49 | amiconn | Rockbox is self-decompressing for archoses were we are above the load-size limit of the original firmware |
| 10:03:35 | amiconn | The load size limit is 200KB for player and recorder v1, and 400KB for recorder fm/v2 and ondios |
| 10:03:59 | orthogonal | yeah, I had a v2 |
| 10:04:03 | amiconn | The only target where we need to compress right now is recorder v1 |
| 10:04:11 | orthogonal | until the piece of crap broke |
| 10:04:21 | orthogonal | I even installed a 60gb drive in it |
| 10:05:10 | amiconn | I have a recorder v1 upgraded to 80GB and white backlight mod. Almost 4 years old, still working ok |
| 10:06:16 | amiconn | There is another size limit I wouldn't want to exceed: With a flashable box, it's possible to run rockbox directly from flash rom, which implies it needs to be uncompressed |
| 10:06:37 | orthogonal | right, the german guy's thing |
| 10:06:43 | orthogonal | yeah, I had that installe dtoo |
| 10:07:19 | amiconn | The flash rom is 256KB, and the flash loader + bootbox (this combo is functionally equivalent to the bootloader we have on iriver) take 28KB |
| 10:07:41 | amiconn | So I would prefer to stay below 224KB uncompressed size for all archos targets |
| 10:08:01 | orthogonal | makes good sense |
| 10:08:06 | amiconn | All my archoses are flashed and running rombox :) |
| 10:08:24 | orthogonal | ok, I've installed rockbox on the 5g |
| 10:08:28 | orthogonal | I think |
| 10:09:06 | orthogonal | YES!!!! |
| 10:09:14 | orthogonal | little tiny fonts, I love it |
| 10:09:24 | midkay | haha. |
| 10:09:37 | midkay | i recommend xtal-14 - unless you want very tiny :) |
| 10:09:40 | orthogonal | Oh god, i recall how much better rockbox was than teh archos firmware |
| 10:09:52 | midkay | xtal-14 is rather small, but .. considerably bigger than 'tiny' :) |
| 10:09:57 | midkay | just right for me |
| 10:11:39 | orthogonal | jeeez, th efdaily build page is a lot more complicate dthan I recall |
| 10:12:13 | midkay | haha. so many more builds now :) |
| 10:12:36 | orthogonal | yah |
| 10:14:31 | midkay | btw - directory cache is a nice setting (general settings - system - disk - directory cache) if you do a lot of browsing, reads your HD contents at boot and stores them in memory so you don't have to spinup to browse, just to load files |
| 10:14:48 | amiconn | orthogonal, midkay: Want more and larger fonts? rasher.dk/rockbox/fonts/">http://www.rasher.dk/rockbox/fonts/ |
| 10:15:20 | midkay | whoa! that's a _lot_ of fonts.. thanks :D |
| 10:15:46 | orthogonal | Nah, I just need two fonts: a tiny and a big |
| 10:16:15 | amiconn | I still have to check these out; I want a really big font for my H340 for in-car use |
| 10:16:30 | orthogonal | er, good pint |
| 10:19:02 | | Join safetydan [0] (n=dan@81-178-235-210.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 10:20:44 | orthogonal | crap. |
| 10:20:49 | orthogonal | what's with all th ebmps? |
| 10:23:02 | midkay | what? |
| 10:24:11 | orthogonal | bitmapds |
| 10:24:51 | ghode|afk | they are for the WPS themes |
| 10:24:57 | midkay | bitmap support for the WPS.. |
| 10:25:10 | orthogonal | needless luxury |
| 10:25:18 | midkay | haha, yes :) |
| 10:25:41 | ghode|afk | for youmaybe ;) |
| 10:25:57 | midkay | some very cool bitmap-oriented WPS' though :) |
| 10:26:26 | orthogonal | oh sweetness!!!!!!! |
| 10:26:40 | orthogonal | after all these years, back on rockbox!! |
| 10:27:27 | midkay | oh yes, feels great, huh? :) |
| 10:28:24 | | Join damaki_ [0] (n=Chocolat@ALille-153-1-57-6.w86-196.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:29:15 | BHSPitLappy | what? |
| 10:29:24 | orthogonal | midkay: my main screen is blank |
| 10:29:38 | midkay | orthogonal, what? |
| 10:29:49 | midkay | show files = all? |
| 10:30:00 | orthogonal | yes |
| 10:30:23 | midkay | did you change anything? dircache? |
| 10:30:58 | orthogonal | could be |
| 10:31:22 | orthogonal | did a reset |
| 10:31:27 | midkay | yeah, see if that helps |
| 10:31:34 | orthogonal | still nothibg |
| 10:31:45 | midkay | very weird, hm |
| 10:31:54 | midkay | did you try to restart rockbox? |
| 10:31:58 | midkay | reboot the ipod |
| 10:32:10 | safetydan | the optimised build really triggers some odd problems |
| 10:32:28 | * | safetydan wonders if sanity checking of eq settings is needed |
| 10:33:07 | orthogonal | midkay: thast works |
| 10:33:26 | midkay | orthogonal, weird but.. good :) |
| 10:34:01 | * | amiconn wonders why the optimised build is called optimised build |
| 10:34:18 | orthogonal | hmm |
| 10:34:27 | orthogonal | how do I travel to the parent dir? |
| 10:34:32 | Mikachu | press left |
| 10:34:35 | orthogonal | it's not the mneu key as in teh ipod |
| 10:34:36 | amiconn | Imho it should be called buggy custom build |
| 10:34:38 | orthogonal | ah |
| 10:34:42 | midkay | amiconn, hahaha |
| 10:34:47 | * | Paul_The_Nerd agrees with amiconn. |
| 10:34:50 | Mikachu | amiconn: that doesn't have quite the same ring to it |
| 10:35:12 | orthogonal | it plays! |
| 10:35:22 | Paul_The_Nerd | And then they made an "h100 optimized" build, and someone at misticriver suggested someone make an ipod one. =/ |
| 10:36:10 | orthogonal | what's the best wps? |
| 10:36:18 | ashridah | haha. |
| 10:36:22 | ashridah | call it rockbox MAX |
| 10:36:28 | ashridah | maximum taste, no function |
| 10:36:34 | * | ashridah nods |
| 10:39:00 | Paul_The_Nerd | My personal favorite is "Rockbox_default" with a small piece of art along the bottom half of the screen, and the peakmeter removed. |
| 10:39:12 | Paul_The_Nerd | Not album art, mind you. Just a picture. |
| 10:39:17 | orthogonal | something's fucked up |
| 10:39:32 | orthogonal | it's showing id3 data not from what's being played |
| 10:39:41 | midkay | that's the next track |
| 10:39:49 | midkay | in playlist |
| 10:39:53 | orthogonal | you're kidding me |
| 10:39:59 | midkay | je ne kidding-you pas!! |
| 10:40:02 | orthogonal | holy crap |
| 10:40:35 | | Quit novimon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:41:11 | | Join ender` [0] (i=ychat@84.52.165.220) |
| 10:41:46 | orthogonal | It';s doesn't do euro-accented characters? |
| 10:41:57 | Mikachu | it does, even japanese works fine |
| 10:42:32 | safetydan | Is there a clamp function/macro anywhere in Rockbox? |
| 10:42:47 | orthogonal | Götterdämmerung is showing as G tterd mmerung |
| 10:42:53 | Mikachu | MAX(5,MIN(0,x)) ? |
| 10:43:10 | Mikachu | er, i always write those in the wrong order |
| 10:43:31 | safetydan | Mikachu, yes I can write one, just wondering if there was one I could reuse |
| 10:43:35 | Mikachu | ah |
| 10:43:36 | Paul_The_Nerd | orthogonal: Depends on what font you're using. Try Unifont. |
| 10:43:40 | safetydan | the less code I write the better |
| 10:44:01 | | Quit damaki (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:44:37 | orthogonal | unifont is ugly |
| 10:44:49 | Mikachu | 6+12x13 |
| 10:44:55 | orthogonal | but, yes, it does work. |
| 10:44:56 | orthogonal | thanks |
| 10:45:25 | Paul_The_Nerd | orthogonal: Yeah, the one mikachu mentioned also works. There's only a few unicode fonts so far. |
| 10:45:57 | orthogonal | snap works, and isn't so ugly |
| 10:46:20 | Mikachu | if you want to draw a screen with two different fonts, would that be very slow? |
| 10:46:34 | safetydan | hrmm... clapming EQ settings on load isn't going to work as then they'll just get in-range crazy settings (like all bands +24 dB) |
| 10:46:44 | orthogonal | Mikachu: under teh code a couple yeras ago, there was only mmeory for one font |
| 10:46:52 | orthogonal | but I'm way out of date |
| 10:47:11 | Mikachu | i was thinking theoretically about writing some japanese lookup progarm |
| 10:47:42 | orthogonal | hrist lots of .rocks |
| 10:49:47 | orthogonal | how d o i escape from mandelbrot? |
| 10:49:59 | Mikachu | menu+select on ipod4g |
| 10:50:03 | midkay | select+menu usually |
| 10:50:41 | orthogonal | thanks |
| 10:50:52 | amiconn | orthogonal: xtal-14 should work for accented chars |
| 10:51:51 | | Join XavierGr [0] (n=XavierGr@ppp89-adsl-132.ath.forthnet.gr) |
| 10:52:06 | orthogonal | wrap arounf scrolloing is sweet' |
| 10:52:42 | orthogonal | ztal is good looking |
| 10:52:45 | orthogonal | tahnks |
| 10:53:05 | orthogonal | nice |
| 10:53:12 | midkay | orthogonal, you bastard - i recommended it like an hour ago. :) |
| 10:53:23 | | Join JdGordon [0] (n=JdGordon@c220-239-137-122.smelb1.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 10:53:34 | orthogonal | same old midkay |
| 10:53:36 | orthogonal | ;) |
| 10:53:40 | midkay | fu man! ;) |
| 10:55:15 | orthogonal | how do i get back to thre file system browser from the wps? |
| 10:55:16 | | Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@ipa41.2.tellas.gr) |
| 10:55:26 | midkay | select |
| 10:55:26 | Mikachu | select |
| 10:55:34 | Mikachu | you won this time |
| 10:55:42 | orthogonal | ah |
| 10:55:48 | midkay | haha. *narrows eyes and readies fingers for next question* |
| 10:55:50 | midkay | :) |
| 10:56:29 | orthogonal | ok, this is a hard one. |
| 10:56:36 | * | midkay == ready |
| 10:56:52 | orthogonal | how's rb playback quality compare to ipod firmware playback? |
| 10:56:57 | midkay | PWNSZZOR!! |
| 10:57:11 | midkay | *dances* IN YOUR FACE! |
| 10:57:22 | Mikachu | i don't hear the difference between 128kbps mp3 and 320kbps ogg |
| 10:57:36 | midkay | haha. |
| 10:57:42 | orthogonal | anyone recorded putput to cpmpare it? |
| 10:57:49 | orthogonal | output |
| 10:58:13 | Mikachu | AUDIO: 44100 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 64.8 kbit/4.59% (ratio: 8100->176400) |
| 10:58:19 | Mikachu | what i'm listening to now |
| 10:58:44 | midkay | haha. ew. |
| 10:58:55 | Mikachu | not my encode though, i usually ogg at 100 :) |
| 10:58:55 | orthogonal | rb plays unprotected aac? |
| 10:59:01 | markun | orthogonal: will you do a test? |
| 10:59:15 | orthogonal | markun: eventaully i will, yes |
| 10:59:22 | orthogonal | but not for about a month |
| 10:59:36 | orthogonal | I need to refamilairize myself with teh rockbox codebase |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:04 | orthogonal | and talk to whomever is doing teh rockbox ipod coding |
| 11:03:08 | orthogonal | i hate to say it, but the apple wps looks "cleaner" |
| 11:03:36 | Paul_The_Nerd | orthogonal: How do you mean "cleaner?" |
| 11:03:46 | orthogonal | more attarctive |
| 11:03:59 | Paul_The_Nerd | But... you can reproduce the apple WPS almost exactly in rockbox... |
| 11:04:10 | orthogonal | Paul_The_Nerd: is that apreset? |
| 11:04:15 | | Quit San (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 11:04:21 | orthogonal | a preset, or do ai have to write teh wps myself? |
| 11:04:28 | Paul_The_Nerd | Not really. The "Themes" that a re included are just those submitted by people. |
| 11:04:47 | orthogonal | yes, is there an existing applle-looking theme? |
| 11:04:51 | midkay | Paul_The_Nerd, well, also there's a lack of font anti-aliasing (even if it is fake).. |
| 11:05:02 | Paul_The_Nerd | There is that, I suppose. |
| 11:05:11 | | Join webguest98 [0] (n=44495ecb@labb.contactor.se) |
| 11:05:19 | midkay | orthogonal, it's easy to set one up.. |
| 11:05:20 | Paul_The_Nerd | But then I use a tiny font anyway, so I wouldn't want it. |
| 11:05:34 | midkay | i could send you mine - it's pretty damn similar :) |
| 11:05:41 | midkay | using xtal-14? |
| 11:05:44 | orthogonal | midkay: would you? |
| 11:06:27 | webguest98 | what is GPIO_FUNCTION in the source? for ex: in button_init() GPIO_FUNCTION |= 0x08000000; GPIO_ENABLE &= ~0x08000000; what are these doing? |
| 11:07:21 | orthogonal | webguest98: they look like consrants, but tehy're beingused as variables |
| 11:07:44 | webguest98 | ??? to do what? |
| 11:08:11 | perplexity | they are IO ports.. |
| 11:08:11 | | Nick webguest98 is now known as jsmitz (n=44495ecb@labb.contactor.se) |
| 11:09:35 | jsmitz | isn't a port a 16bit? |
| 11:09:40 | jsmitz | a port number |
| 11:10:36 | perplexity | which particular architecture are you refering to? |
| 11:11:25 | amiconn | All our targets have memory-mapped i/o |
| 11:11:47 | jsmitz | audio, but all of them mess with GPIO_FUNCTION..where is it defined |
| 11:12:02 | jsmitz | *iaudio |
| 11:12:03 | amiconn | ...and are 32 bit archs (except the gmini target which is currently inactive) |
| 11:12:12 | perplexity | yes, I was more asking which architecture he got that particular snippet from.. I was going to point him in the direction of the relevant cpu manuals :) |
| 11:12:23 | amiconn | The data width varies, can be 8, 16 or 32 bit |
| 11:12:47 | amiconn | iaudio is coldfire, and coldfire gpio is 32 bit |
| 11:12:55 | perplexity | indeed |
| 11:12:56 | amiconn | Check mcf5250.h |
| 11:13:16 | amiconn | (or mcf5249.h for iriver) |
| 11:13:27 | amiconn | They're almost identical |
| 11:14:21 | jsmitz | what path? didn't see in firmware/drivers |
| 11:15:15 | jsmitz | found it; |
| 11:17:27 | orthogonal | how muxch "excees" perocessor power do we have on teh ipod? |
| 11:17:28 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 11:17:53 | jsmitz | MBAR seems to be the base address? where exactly is MBAR at? on the coldfire chip itself? |
| 11:18:51 | perplexity | it's defined in crt0.S |
| 11:19:16 | | Join muesli__ [0] (n=muesli_t@88.134.20.76) |
| 11:20:28 | orthogonal | amiconn: why's gmini inactive? |
| 11:20:56 | jsmitz | okay, I'm lost...what do I need to read to learn how memorymapped io works on coldfire? |
| 11:21:13 | perplexity | what are you trying to do? |
| 11:21:21 | jsmitz | cause I thought io messed with devices on the bus & not the chip (coldfire) |
| 11:21:30 | perplexity | the IO registers are just mapped as memory.. |
| 11:21:33 | orthogonal | doesn't mmeory mapped just mean you cam read/write teh memory and let teh hardware wory about the rest? |
| 11:21:54 | perplexity | yes, but the coldfire has quite a lot of hadware built in, so you use internal registers to configure that hardware also |
| 11:21:59 | jsmitz | just trying to understand rockbox code (and hardware programming in general) |
| 11:22:00 | orthogonal | no spceail INP OUTP commands |
| 11:22:04 | perplexity | yes orthogonal |
| 11:22:10 | amiconn | No, it just means the i/o registers are mapped into the same address space as the memory |
| 11:22:48 | orthogonal | decalte your variables volatile |
| 11:22:50 | amiconn | ..so you access them like you would access memory addresses |
| 11:23:14 | orthogonal | yes, no spedial handling |
| 11:23:27 | jsmitz | so GPIO_FUNCTION is a register on the chip or adevice on the bus? |
| 11:23:46 | orthogonal | jsmitz: it's an abstraction so you don't have to ask that |
| 11:24:13 | jsmitz | ok...but I hate being in bliss... |
| 11:24:32 | orthogonal | as Koenig says, "abstraction is selective ignorance" |
| 11:25:35 | perplexity | look at the GPIO as hardware pins connected directly to a memory address.. or grab the coldfire manual for a pretty detailed schematic of the GPIO pin configuration |
| 11:26:20 | jsmitz | so GPIO is cpu specific & not device specific? |
| 11:27:04 | perplexity | GPIO in this context are a load of pins on the cpu.. so yes.. |
| 11:27:23 | perplexity | General Purpose Input Output .. GPIO |
| 11:27:48 | amiconn | What is connected to the various GPIO pins is of course device specific |
| 11:27:56 | perplexity | indeed |
| 11:28:08 | amiconn | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PortPinAssignments |
| 11:31:01 | jsmitz | ahh...ok. I thought GPIO was just a 4byte memory location...but see it's 32bits each with a different function [pertaining to controlling devices]? |
| 11:31:25 | perplexity | pretty mich |
| 11:31:27 | perplexity | much* |
| 11:31:37 | perplexity | though I'm sure mich is pretty also |
| 11:32:06 | jsmitz | lol |
| 11:32:29 | jsmitz | ok...that gets me one step closer to understanding hardware |
| 11:33:50 | jsmitz | ok, so the iriver & archos targets have the GPIO pins pretty much defied (from the twiki) but theiaudio x5 only has a couple...does this mean it needs to be researched what pin does what? |
| 11:34:03 | amiconn | yes |
| 11:34:17 | jsmitz | *defined |
| 11:34:22 | | Quit damaki_ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 11:34:42 | jsmitz | how hard is it..or how would you identify each function? |
| 11:34:59 | amiconn | Follow the traces on the board... |
| 11:35:01 | perplexity | trace the tracks on the board.. |
| 11:35:13 | perplexity | disassemble the original code.. |
| 11:35:29 | perplexity | toggle them in software and see where the smoke comes from.. |
| 11:35:40 | jsmitz | so pretty hard I take it? |
| 11:35:51 | perplexity | more time consuming |
| 11:35:52 | jsmitz | it's not something you can look up in a book |
| 11:36:04 | perplexity | no |
| 11:36:28 | XavierGr | doesn anyone has a link that shows how to open an H300? |
| 11:37:07 | jsmitz | so the only real way of knowing what each does is by having test code flashed to the ROM? cause you obiviously can't use the simulator (sdl) to find out what each does? |
| 11:37:26 | perplexity | or toggle them with the bdm.. |
| 11:38:24 | BHSPitLappy | XavierGr: http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/ |
| 11:38:38 | jsmitz | so is this GPIO function definition process the current bottleneck for the iaudio x5 target? |
| 11:38:44 | JdGordon | hahah BHSPitLappy |
| 11:38:54 | BHSPitLappy | sup |
| 11:39:09 | JdGordon | nm |
| 11:39:33 | perplexity | jsmitz: as with all targets, it's really a matter of figuring out what is connected where and then how to drive it.. so it's part of the process.. yes |
| 11:40:33 | BHSPitLappy | ever get that print |
| 11:40:43 | XavierGr | BHSPitLappy: Thanks but no... |
| 11:40:50 | BHSPitLappy | lol |
| 11:41:07 | jsmitz | and only 1 person can do that, the one with the bdm..everyone else can only hypothesize what the pins do I take it |
| 11:41:12 | | Join damaki [0] (n=Chocolat@ALille-153-1-57-6.w86-196.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:41:32 | perplexity | jsmitz: no.. you can open your unit up and trace the tracks on the board :) |
| 11:42:05 | JdGordon | BHSPitLappy: no, not yet |
| 11:42:07 | JdGordon | still waiting |
| 11:42:24 | jsmitz | but I wouldn't really know what it does unless I could toggle it though? |
| 11:42:31 | jsmitz | ...I thought |
| 11:42:59 | perplexity | well, you know both ends of the trace.. and you have datasheets for both chips.. so you should know what it does :) |
| 11:44:40 | jsmitz | so just by knowing that pin X on the cpu connects to pin Y on say ATA controller, the ata controller (in documentation) will say that toggling this pin does Z? |
| 11:45:05 | perplexity | that's the theory.. yes.. |
| 11:45:20 | jsmitz | in that case...sounds like fun! :p |
| 11:45:23 | ashridah | depending on the state of the ATA controller, and whether it's read on a rising edge of the clock or whatever |
| 11:45:27 | perplexity | if it connects to say pin 27 on the ATA controller and the manual says pin 27 is the enable pin.. you know what it does |
| 11:45:30 | jsmitz | trying to match 'em up! |
| 11:48:37 | jsmitz | so...how do you trace pins..when they disappear on the pcb? |
| 11:49:06 | perplexity | well, they never really dissapear.. they just change layers or hide under components.. |
| 11:49:45 | ashridah | jsmitz: in many cases, you take a dead version, and use a scanner on high resolution to get a clear image, and recreate a schematic from it |
| 11:49:49 | amiconn | One option is what Linus did for the iriver H1x0: |
| 11:49:58 | ashridah | after you strip the chips off it, i mean |
| 11:50:14 | amiconn | He acquired a broken iriver and stripped all components from the board |
| 11:50:49 | jsmitz | how many layers can there be? even if you have all the components stripped, how can you see "inside" the pcb? |
| 11:50:52 | ashridah | of course, this tactic is a bitch if the board has more than 2 layers |
| 11:51:02 | Mikachu | i hear some pc motherboards have 5 or more? |
| 11:51:03 | ashridah | jsmitz: uh, some boards have 6 :) |
| 11:51:22 | ashridah | some of which are often ground planes to reduce noise |
| 11:51:27 | amiconn | Well, every trace end must be on one of the outer layers |
| 11:51:28 | perplexity | I have an 8 layer board here |
| 11:51:47 | jsmitz | what's the point? lack of space or bad design ? |
| 11:51:58 | ashridah | jsmitz: good engineering |
| 11:52:17 | amiconn | Following a trace that runs thorugh inner layers is a bit difficult but doable. It has to reappear on an outer layer somewhere |
| 11:52:31 | jsmitz | more layers = better? |
| 11:52:40 | ashridah | it can be used to reduce noise, save space, reduce cost |
| 11:53:07 | Mikachu | is it possible to use something like the connected tester of a multimeter? |
| 11:53:10 | perplexity | worst case when the board is stripped you use a fine point on one meter probe and a small brush on the other, then just sweep the board for beeps to narrow down the area of the other trace end |
| 11:54:00 | jsmitz | you can use a open/short detector on a multi-meter & test all possibilities of pin A on everything else on the pcb...that would work? |
| 11:54:12 | perplexity | yep |
| 11:54:23 | ashridah | perplexity: i agree, after all, it can only connect to a component on the surface on either side. |
| 11:54:33 | perplexity | exactly.. |
| 11:55:13 | perplexity | but, it requires a sacrificial unit and lots of care removing the chips.. |
| 11:55:49 | jsmitz | you can't glue the chips back on or something? |
| 11:56:20 | Mikachu | i doubt it... |
| 11:56:28 | | Part Paul_The_Nerd |
| 11:56:41 | Mikachu | the connections won't be as good as before, so the signals would need to be stronger |
| 11:56:44 | perplexity | well, if you were super ultra careful and really good with smd rework I guess you could dismantle a working unit.. scope it out and reassemble it.. but man.. with the hours involved I'd rather buy a new unit and scrap it |
| 11:58:25 | | Join Matze [0] (i=Miranda@p5484DE0C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:59:15 | jsmitz | I'm going to try doing some traces...sounds like fun...that is after I get my x5 back; had to rma it |
| 11:59:36 | perplexity | just be careful or you might have to rma it again :) |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:17 | jsmitz | if all I do is the "sweep" method, I shouldn't have anything to worry about? |
| 12:00:54 | | Join BHSPitLappy_ [0] (i=steve-o@adsl-64-217-216-234.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 12:00:54 | perplexity | oh yeah you will.. don't go jamming a couple of volts from your DMM continuity tester onto the board.. the odds are you *will* kill something.. |
| 12:01:06 | | Quit BHSPitLappy (Nick collision from services.) |
| 12:01:12 | | Nick BHSPitLappy_ is now known as BHSPitLappy (i=steve-o@adsl-64-217-216-234.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 12:02:03 | jsmitz | haha..I just took my car receiver apart & ran continuity tests on random components...lol |
| 12:03:05 | jsmitz | perplexity, what if just measure resistance? |
| 12:03:15 | jsmitz | instead of volts? |
| 12:03:35 | jsmitz | I don't know why you would measure volts |
| 12:03:38 | perplexity | no.. resistance is measured by measuring voltage drop by the meter.. |
| 12:04:13 | perplexity | it requires injecting voltage across the terminals.. trust me.. don't go poking a live board or working board with a dmm doing anything other than measuring voltage |
| 12:04:36 | jsmitz | damn...you just killed all the fun! |
| 12:05:11 | amiconn | There's one situation where one has to strip components in order to trace connections: in case one of the chips is a BGA |
| 12:05:18 | | Join IcyStorM [0] (n=aknemyr@h229n10c1o1043.bredband.skanova.com) |
| 12:05:33 | amiconn | The iriver CPU is a BGA, but afaik the iAudio CPU is not |
| 12:06:10 | jsmitz | bga = buffer gate array? |
| 12:06:18 | amiconn | Ball Grid Array |
| 12:07:06 | amiconn | A BGA package has its connections underneath the package, no way to reach the pads w/o unsoldering the chip |
| 12:07:40 | jsmitz | like normal pc processors? |
| 12:07:50 | | Join freqmod [0] (n=freqmod@44.80-203-31.nextgentel.com) |
| 12:07:50 | jsmitz | with all the pins underneath |
| 12:08:17 | amiconn | The older PC processors are PGA and also have all pins underneath |
| 12:08:55 | amiconn | ...but you won't find PGA packages soldered onto a small sized board, as PGA requires holes |
| 12:09:40 | amiconn | Newer pentium 4 are BGA |
| 12:09:44 | jsmitz | the older processors? what's considered new? my athlon xp I guess is pga as it has pins on the bottom that fit into holes on the mobo |
| 12:10:17 | amiconn | Yes, athlon is PGA |
| 12:12:31 | jsmitz | damn I don't know jack about all this stuff! I'm far away from understanding rockbox since I don't understand hardware yet |
| 12:12:55 | jsmitz | all I really care is low-level stuff...I hate UI |
| 12:12:59 | orthogonal | jsmitz: you're going the wrong direction |
| 12:13:10 | jsmitz | how so? |
| 12:13:11 | * | ashridah notes one usually brushes the surface with an electronics engineering degree. |
| 12:13:18 | orthogonal | the hardware is abstracted for you, "hidden" behind a common interface |
| 12:13:36 | orthogonal | lern the common interface |
| 12:14:07 | orthogonal | depart from it only as you need to, to impement things the common interface doesn't already do |
| 12:14:34 | jsmitz | I'm more concerned about how the hardware is controlled...I really don't care about software programming; |
| 12:14:57 | ashridah | jsmitz: out of interest, what's your overall goal, besides learning how rockbox works? |
| 12:14:59 | jsmitz | I'm majoring in EE when I go to school...in september; I just wanna get a head start on learning |
| 12:15:04 | orthogonal | what is it you're trying to do? |
| 12:15:10 | jsmitz | embedded systems programming |
| 12:15:11 | ashridah | (i might add reading design docs might be a better idea than reading source, btw) :) |
| 12:15:12 | orthogonal | ah. |
| 12:16:33 | jsmitz | I used to read the pentium system programming manuals but had no examples of source... |
| 12:16:48 | jsmitz | I know I have to read the pdfs & then study the code; I guess i"m just eager |
| 12:17:18 | jsmitz | & wanna hop right into to seeing code in action |
| 12:18:40 | ashridah | jsmitz: i'd pick up a 68k simulator from somewhere (used to use one a few years back, can't remember the name, and i didn't get it from a public location anyway) and poke at it. |
| 12:18:53 | jsmitz | and from all my comments thus far...you can see I have no sense of direction in what I need to learn :) |
| 12:18:57 | orthogonal | or [eek at it |
| 12:18:59 | orthogonal | peeek |
| 12:19:49 | jsmitz | ashridah, is that a physical device or a software program like the sdl simulator? |
| 12:20:02 | ashridah | software |
| 12:20:18 | ashridah | but the sdl simulator is a simulator of rockbox's lower level software, mostly |
| 12:20:58 | ashridah | a 68k simulator would actually simulate 68000 instructions, and provide a simple monitor to let you load code into memory, etc. |
| 12:21:32 | jsmitz | but what could I do with a simulator when I won't have any "hardware" connected to it? |
| 12:21:45 | * | ashridah remembers his earlier years, working with a crappy 68HC11 cpu and an even crappier simulator written by the most annoying lecturer alive |
| 12:21:51 | jsmitz | or would it simulate hardware devices too? |
| 12:21:56 | orthogonal | it simulates teh hardware |
| 12:22:07 | ashridah | it's a simulator, it simulates the cpu and some connected hardware, depending |
| 12:22:32 | jsmitz | ok |
| 12:22:34 | ashridah | note that it's not to be confused with an emulator |
| 12:22:55 | jsmitz | what's the diff? |
| 12:24:21 | JdGordon | any1 know where the scrolling code is? |
| 12:24:38 | ashridah | simply put, an emulator is like vmware. intended to pretend to be a complete, indistinguishable system, including timing and reactions to input, etc. |
| 12:24:53 | ashridah | a simulator is typically a lot less exact |
| 12:25:03 | ashridah | ie, it's closer to an approximation in some cases. |
| 12:26:15 | JdGordon | any1..? scorrling text code?? |
| 12:26:53 | ashridah | heh. rockbox needs an LXR |
| 12:26:59 | ashridah | well, i suppose it'd be an RXR |
| 12:27:43 | | Join Nico_P [0] (n=nico404@rob92-6-82-231-243-63.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:28:01 | jsmitz | too many acronyms...acronymfinder has become my best friend as of recently |
| 12:28:09 | jsmitz | :p |
| 12:28:40 | ashridah | ah, LXR is basically 'linux cross-reference' |
| 12:29:49 | | Join funkyhammond [0] (i=Funkster@S010600e018b95fc7.vc.shawcable.net) |
| 12:30:06 | jsmitz | ok...does anyone use rb source in an ide or are most devs text-only people |
| 12:30:48 | | Join Lost-ash [0] (i=ashridah@220-253-120-27.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 12:32:12 | funkyhammond | hi all.. how do I email Zagor without it bouncing back? |
| 12:32:25 | jsmitz | and ashridah, there's a link to a coldfire emulator from the twiki...I would want an emulator over a simulator, correct? |
| 12:32:26 | JdGordon | funkyhammond: cut the rubber cord off the email first |
| 12:32:29 | JdGordon | duh! |
| 12:32:39 | funkyhammond | excuse me |
| 12:33:01 | JdGordon | :D |
| 12:33:32 | funkyhammond | obviously I don't normally deal with "rubber cords" |
| 12:35:41 | | Part funkyhammond |
| 12:35:55 | Lost-ash | jsmitz: i was thinking from a learning perspective, mostl |
| 12:35:58 | Lost-ash | y |
| 12:36:12 | orthogonal | Cool, my code is still in id3.c |
| 12:36:15 | Lost-ash | a simulator may be an easier platform, but it'd be more for learning assembly than learning to deal with the hardware, i guess |
| 12:36:21 | | Quit ashridah (Nick collision from services.) |
| 12:36:24 | Lost-ash | bloody dialup |
| 12:37:03 | jsmitz | I guess I need both...don't know 68k asm yet or how hardware works |
| 12:37:16 | | Join mirak [0] (n=mirak@AAubervilliers-152-1-10-92.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:37:50 | | Nick Lost-ash is now known as ashridah (i=ashridah@220-253-120-27.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 12:39:21 | jsmitz | damn cygwin is slow...the configure script takes 3 seconds for each 'checking for...' line |
| 12:39:38 | ashridah | yeah, it is |
| 12:40:12 | IcyStorM | How do I patch rockbox so that I can play Doom on it? |
| 12:40:33 | jsmitz | rockbox can play doom? |
| 12:40:43 | BHSPitLappy | yeh |
| 12:40:49 | aliask | IcyStorM: What platform? |
| 12:41:04 | amiconn | ashridah: The sim isn't suited for learning asm |
| 12:41:06 | jsmitz | pretty cool |
| 12:41:24 | IcyStorM | Ipod 5G (video) |
| 12:41:29 | ashridah | amiconn: depends which simulator you're using, i guess |
| 12:41:42 | amiconn | The sim simulates the rockbox ui, playback etc, but is compiled for the CPU it is running on |
| 12:41:57 | ashridah | amiconn: i wasn't referring to the SDL sim |
| 12:42:06 | amiconn | What else? |
| 12:42:11 | | Part ashridah ("Leaving") |
| 12:42:12 | IcyStorM | http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=2758.0 |
| 12:42:16 | | Join ashridah [0] (i=ashridah@220-253-120-27.VIC.netspace.net.au) |
| 12:42:16 | BHSPitLappy | lol |
| 12:42:23 | ashridah | god damn you xchat |
| 12:42:34 | IcyStorM | Llorean says that it works for iPod but its just a patch |
| 12:42:39 | ashridah | amiconn: i wasn't suggesting the *SDL* sim as a viable platform for learning asm |
| 12:42:57 | ashridah | infact, i explicitly said that that was more for testing rockbox than hardware stuff |
| 12:43:06 | jsmitz | any general m68k/coldfire cpu simulator |
| 12:43:10 | amiconn | A simulator only simulates behaviour, afaik |
| 12:43:15 | BHSPitLappy | yeah |
| 12:43:19 | BHSPitLappy | it's not an emulator |
| 12:43:23 | amiconn | a cpu simulator is called emulator |
| 12:43:27 | IcyStorM | http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&atid=439120&group_id=44306&aid=1421032 |
| 12:43:34 | ashridah | amiconn: well, i've used cpu simulators. |
| 12:43:34 | BHSPitLappy | though someone from rockbox did make an emulator of one of the platforms |
| 12:43:35 | IcyStorM | oh its an error :( |
| 12:43:42 | aliask | IcyStorM: It won't work on the 5G yet, there are changes they have to make to the patch - keybindings at the very least |
| 12:43:52 | midkay | my 5g runs it fine |
| 12:43:56 | amiconn | BHSPitLappy: Yes, there are emulators for gmini and iFP |
| 12:43:56 | ashridah | the effective definition is basically an emulator attempts to be indistinguishable, whereas a simulator isn't |
| 12:43:59 | midkay | keys aren't perfect, but it runs and is playable |
| 12:44:06 | IcyStorM | midkay can you help me ? |
| 12:44:09 | ashridah | (so an emulator will attempt to give approximate timing and whatnot) |
| 12:44:16 | midkay | IcyStorM, do you have a dev environment? |
| 12:44:24 | IcyStorM | I dont think so |
| 12:44:31 | IcyStorM | the http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&atid=439120&group_id=44306&aid=1421032 page is just for group members it says. |
| 12:44:35 | midkay | IcyStorM, well, i guess i could send precompiled binaries.. |
| 12:44:39 | midkay | wrong url |
| 12:44:40 | jsmitz | make |
| 12:44:47 | IcyStorM | aha |
| 12:44:49 | jsmitz | oops wrong console |
| 12:45:04 | BHSPitLappy | lol |
| 12:46:17 | | Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 12:46:27 | jsmitz | ls |
| 12:46:27 | | Join _StarScream [0] (n=am@87.115.237.56) |
| 12:46:34 | linuxstb | morning all |
| 12:46:34 | jsmitz | damn... |
| 12:46:38 | _StarScream | hi guys |
| 12:47:13 | jsmitz | morning!??!...ah shit...I gotta sleep soon :) |
| 12:47:20 | _StarScream | i am just looking at the website and i was wondering if there was a page where i could check out which features rockbox has for a particular player |
| 12:47:35 | BHSPitLappy | almost 6am... |
| 12:47:35 | _StarScream | i.e which functions of the H320 does it support etc |
| 12:47:40 | linuxstb | orthogonal: You asked how much "excess" cpu power we have on the ipod. The answer is a whole CPU - the iPods have two arm7tdmi cores, and we currently only use one. |
| 12:47:41 | | Quit Thus0 ("Leaving") |
| 12:48:00 | BHSPitLappy | _StarScream: what kinds of functions are you referring to? |
| 12:48:34 | linuxstb | orthogonal: Plus, on the 5g we have a broadcom video dsp which is also completely unused. |
| 12:48:40 | orthogonal | why do we only use one? |
| 12:49:52 | linuxstb | IMO, we don't need it. To save power, we can just keep it sleeping and do everything Rockbox needs to do for audio playback on a single CPU. |
| 12:50:12 | orthogonal | is there any memeory we don't use? |
| 12:50:33 | coob | the broadcom has 4mb on ram on it |
| 12:50:36 | coob | of* |
| 12:50:39 | _StarScream | BHSPitLappy: well i was just curious if rockbox did everything that the iRvier firmware does..if not what i would be losing out on. I prefer FOSS where i can |
| 12:50:50 | _StarScream | but i do use some features on the h320 |
| 12:50:50 | orthogonal | 4mb we don't use at all? |
| 12:50:52 | orthogonal | ???? |
| 12:50:55 | coob | yes. |
| 12:50:59 | _StarScream | like usbotg |
| 12:51:01 | orthogonal | oh sweet |
| 12:51:03 | ashridah | orthogonal: some ipods have 64MB iirc |
| 12:51:10 | ashridah | which isn't being fully utilized |
| 12:51:12 | coob | 60gb videos have 64mb ram afaik |
| 12:51:22 | perplexity | _StarScream rockbox does not do usbotg or play mpeg4 video.. thats about it.. Oh.. it does not record direct to mp3.. |
| 12:51:25 | orthogonal | oh sweeet |
| 12:51:33 | linuxstb | The Nano and 5g have 128KB of IRAM - currently Rockbox only uses 96KB of it, because that's how much the other targets have. So that needs fixing. |
| 12:51:34 | ashridah | _StarScream: the H320 can dual boot iriver and rockbox |
| 12:51:44 | ashridah | you don't lose the original firmware if you've got rockbox installed |
| 12:51:49 | orthogonal | back in the archos days, I wanted to add a tag db to the archos. but i fugured there was too little capacity |
| 12:51:50 | _StarScream | ashridah: hmm that might be worth a look |
| 12:52:03 | perplexity | it's great _StarScream.. get's an A+ recommendation :) |
| 12:52:03 | BHSPitLappy | _StarScream: did you bother typing "iriver" into the search field on rockbox.org? :P |
| 12:52:04 | orthogonal | with an extra cpu and 4mb of memory, i can add a tag databse |
| 12:52:20 | linuxstb | And the 60GB 5g has 64MB RAM, compared to 32MB RAM on all other targets, and that extra memory is unused at the moment. |
| 12:52:39 | ashridah | orthogonal: look into tag cache (someone had a tag db going before, but it's been kinda deprecated and tagcache seems to be current, not sure) |
| 12:52:41 | * | perplexity imagines how many tracks can be buffered in that extra space :) |
| 12:52:43 | linuxstb | But the 5g port has only really been working for about 2 weeks... |
| 12:52:47 | _StarScream | BHSPitLappy: no i typed h320 |
| 12:52:48 | orthogonal | ah, that explains why my battery usage is so much higher than with teh apple firmware |
| 12:52:58 | _StarScream | ah got it |
| 12:53:00 | _StarScream | thanks |
| 12:53:04 | linuxstb | orthogonal: Do you have a 60GB 5g? |
| 12:53:10 | orthogonal | linuxstb: yes, I do |
| 12:53:10 | jsmitz | quick q then I'm going to sleep: what is a wps? |
| 12:53:13 | ashridah | orthogonal: there's still plenty of work to do on the ipods |
| 12:53:17 | orthogonal | I just installed rb on it tonight |
| 12:53:25 | ashridah | jsmitz: WhilePlayingScreen |
| 12:53:37 | jsmitz | beautiful |
| 12:53:41 | orthogonal | prior to this, I hadn't used rockbox for about two years, afyer my archios recorder v2 broke' |
| 12:53:41 | | Quit jsmitz ("I'm out") |
| 12:53:41 | linuxstb | You should at least create a custom build for yourself with the memory size set to 64MB. |
| 12:53:44 | ashridah | jsmitz: it's basically the status screen that shows while music is playing, and is customizable |
| 12:54:11 | orthogonal | linuxstb: indeed. Is there a wiki entry that explain what code changes rto make? |
| 12:54:13 | linuxstb | It would be trivial to produce different Rockbox builds for the 32MB and 64MB versions, but I would prefer to just produce one. |
| 12:54:29 | linuxstb | orthogonal: No. I think you only need to change the entry in the tools/configure script. |
| 12:54:41 | linuxstb | But if you work it out, then add it to the wiki... |
| 12:54:43 | _StarScream | BHSPitLappy: yeh the USBOTG is why i originally purchased the device, so i didn't have to buy lots of sd cards. Is this something that the develpers want to add when they get time? |
| 12:55:10 | ashridah | _StarScream: it's on the cards, like lots of things |
| 12:55:15 | BHSPitLappy | _StarScream: I'm neither a deveoper nor an iRiver owner :P |
| 12:55:16 | orthogonal | linuxstb: if it'sd trivial, we ought to do it, else peopel with 64 are going to think rb eats battery charge |
| 12:55:24 | BHSPitLappy | developer, even |
| 12:55:39 | linuxstb | orthogonal: I would prefer not to implement temporary fixes. |
| 12:55:50 | | Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (n=Paul_The@cpe-66-68-93-2.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 12:56:03 | orthogonal | up to you. |
| 12:56:31 | orthogonal | I just wouldn't want to see peol;el saying rb doesn't work well if there's an easy fix |
| 12:56:36 | _StarScream | ashridah: ok .thank. i will check back at a later date. It looks like a great project and i'm extremely impressed that i at leat have the choice to run non proprietry firmware on the device. |
| 12:56:52 | linuxstb | There are basically just two of us (myself and preglow) working on the ipod port, plus a few other people porting it to other ipods. |
| 12:57:24 | orthogonal | ah! |
| 12:57:30 | orthogonal | then you're the man I want to talk to |
| 12:57:40 | linuxstb | None of the other developers own ipods. |
| 12:57:55 | ashridah | _StarScream: some of the features rockbox provides are still worth testing now, like i say, you can use both, it just requires rebooting the unit and holding down a button to get to the iriver firmware |
| 12:59:42 | orthogonal | linuxstb: what needs to be done for the ipod port? |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:31 | linuxstb | I guess the top priority is to finish implementing the hardware drivers - battery status is the main gap. |
| 13:00:55 | orthogonal | how much of that requires reverse engineering? |
| 13:01:00 | linuxstb | Then it's really just bug fixes, and trying to reduce power consumption. |
| 13:01:18 | | Join San [0] (n=test@213-202-154-207.bas503.dsl.esat.net) |
| 13:01:30 | linuxstb | orthogonal: None really - the source code of the ipodlinux project gives us all the information we need. |
| 13:01:36 | _StarScream | ashridah: ok thanks. I will do that. Also do you know if the H10's have a rockbox version available. I stupidly purchased one for my g/f only to realise it was a us one , and neither of us have a windows machine |
| 13:01:52 | ashridah | no |
| 13:01:57 | linuxstb | Also, the ipods have a PCF50605 power management unit, and a datasheet is available for that. |
| 13:02:09 | orthogonal | linuxstb: perhaps you could assign me some simple parts of it then, as I re-acclimate to rb? |
| 13:02:11 | ashridah | the H10's based on the portalplayer chipset, not an motorola coldfire, so rockbox currently won't work on it |
| 13:02:35 | _StarScream | ashridah: yeh i figured they would be different. Thanks for your help. |
| 13:04:22 | Jungti1234 | markun |
| 13:04:29 | linuxstb | orthogonal: I can't really think of any specific jobs apart from the battery status, or making Rockbox detect and use the extra 32MB ram you have. |
| 13:05:25 | orthogonal | are you oe sometone else currently working on those? I don't want to duplicate or step on toes |
| 13:05:43 | linuxstb | No, I'm not working on anything specific at the moment. |
| 13:06:39 | orthogonal | oh, here's a question: when I lasyt coded anything for rb, we were exclusvely using staticly allocated memory: no heap, no malloc. is that still true? |
| 13:06:58 | linuxstb | preglow has implemented a CPU scaling patch which works fine on the 5g and Nano, but crashes my 4g ipod. I want to try and get that working. |
| 13:07:13 | linuxstb | BTW, I have a 30GB 5g and a 60GB 4G Color. preglow has a Nano. |
| 13:07:28 | orthogonal | I have th e60gb 5g |
| 13:07:54 | linuxstb | Rockbox is basically just doing static allocation, but there is some allocation at startup from the main audio buffer. |
| 13:08:39 | orthogonal | yup |
| 13:09:27 | linuxstb | As you may know, Rockbox places itself at the start of RAM, and the plugin buffer (and now the codec plugin buffer) are at fixed addresses at the end of RAM. |
| 13:09:58 | orthogonal | anfd the dire cache too at the end, yes? |
| 13:10:02 | orthogonal | directory |
| 13:10:18 | linuxstb | So in order to support different RAM sizes detected at runtime, my idea is to put the plugin buffer and codec buffer at fixed addresses at the start of RAM, and Rockbox itself afterwards. |
| 13:10:47 | linuxstb | dircache is allocated from the audio buffer at startup - the size varies according to the number of files. |
| 13:11:00 | orthogonal | but the plugins are at the end so they can grow down (effectively doing a malloc without teh associated bookeeping) |
| 13:11:05 | linuxstb | No. |
| 13:11:17 | linuxstb | plugins can only use their fixed (512KB) buffer. |
| 13:11:24 | orthogonal | oph |
| 13:11:34 | linuxstb | Or grab the entire audio buffer for their own use. |
| 13:11:42 | linuxstb | (but that stops playback) |
| 13:11:43 | orthogonal | ah, right, that was it |
| 13:12:09 | linuxstb | Plugins are compiled and linked to run from a fixed address - they are just simple binary images. |
| 13:14:55 | linuxstb | amiconn: (and others) Can you think of any reason why we can't move plugins and codecs to the start of RAM for every target? It would seem messy to only do it for one build. |
| 13:15:42 | amiconn | Moving to the very start isn't possible, as this is where the vector tables are located |
| 13:16:08 | amiconn | ...and leaving a hole between vector tables and code would blow up the binary |
| 13:17:32 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 13:18:01 | linuxstb | Yes, I'm just realising it isn't a trivial change... |
| 13:18:09 | amiconn | This is a problem on all targets, and it's a severe problem on archos |
| 13:18:24 | | Join novimon [0] (n=novimon@a84-230-230-239.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 13:19:23 | orthogonal | somebody point me to waht I need to do to compile for the ipod? |
| 13:19:31 | orthogonal | from cygwin under windows? |
| 13:20:00 | linuxstb | Download gcc-4.0.2 and binutils-2.16 (or later versions), and cross-compile them for arm-elf |
| 13:20:18 | linuxstb | Generic cross-compiler instructions are here: We already have far too many ipod targets though, I would prefer not |
| 13:20:25 | linuxstb | Oops, wrong paste.... |
| 13:20:44 | coob | linuxstb: does gcc-4 produce better arm code? |
| 13:20:48 | coob | than 3.4 |
| 13:20:50 | linuxstb | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CrossCompiler |
| 13:21:01 | linuxstb | coob: We had bugs on our code that disappeared when using gcc 4 |
| 13:21:13 | Paul_The_Nerd | orthogonal: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CygwinDevelopment <−− Has instructions for a Cygwin arm GCC package. |
| 13:21:14 | linuxstb | s/on/in/ |
| 13:21:18 | coob | notici was thinking more in terms of optimisation |
| 13:21:28 | Paul_The_Nerd | So you don't need to compile your own cross compiler under cygwin any more. |
| 13:21:54 | linuxstb | Well, we haven't really compared - working code was more important. |
| 13:35:22 | Mikachu | that page says 4.0.x is not recommended in shiny orange text, and then you recommend it further down for ipods... |
| 13:36:11 | linuxstb | Yes, it could do with being updated for the ipod. |
| 13:36:37 | linuxstb | Currently, the recommended versions are the latest 3.3.x for SH, 3.4.x for Coldfire and 4.0.x for ARM. |
| 13:41:45 | orthogonal | once I have the toolchainn, is there a .configure? There was targeting script if I recall? |
| 13:42:21 | Paul_The_Nerd | /tools/configure, yes. |
| 13:42:56 | orthogonal | thanks |
| 13:43:03 | linuxstb | mkdir build ; cd build ; ../tools/configure ; make ; make zip |
| 13:44:19 | Paul_The_Nerd | Can configure be passed parameters, instead of having to manually input the target when it prompts for them? |
| 13:45:00 | Mikachu | echo 14\n\n|configure should work |
| 13:45:09 | Paul_The_Nerd | Aaah |
| 13:45:20 | Mikachu | possibly '' around \n |
| 13:45:58 | linuxstb | I didn't think echo supported \n - you could use printf instead. |
| 13:46:18 | Mikachu | depends on the shell i presume |
| 13:47:11 | Paul_The_Nerd | echo 14|../tools/configure seems to do the trick. |
| 13:47:22 | Paul_The_Nerd | Which is odd. |
| 13:47:24 | linuxstb | Ah, you need the -e option to echo. |
| 13:47:57 | orthogonal | arrgh cygwin is bringing in all these weird packages |
| 13:48:10 | orthogonal | I alsways get ALL available packages fopr cygwin |
| 13:48:29 | Paul_The_Nerd | Ick |
| 13:48:36 | orthogonal | it's helpful |
| 13:48:49 | orthogonal | one time I was on ethe phone on a job inteviiew |
| 13:48:55 | Mikachu | i remember when i tried cygwin, it would redownload everything if you changed mirrors, even though the files are the same |
| 13:49:07 | orthogonal | guy akss if I known subversion arther than cvs |
| 13:49:17 | orthogonal | I go into cygwin, typwe svn, and there ir is |
| 13:49:44 | orthogonal | incidebntly, svn kicks cvs's ass |
| 13:50:02 | Mikachu | are you holding your fingers orthogonally to the keyboard? |
| 13:50:24 | orthogonal | Mikachu: I have a disability, and I have to type with a stick I hold in my teeth |
| 13:50:34 | Mikachu | that must suck |
| 13:50:52 | orthogonal | ha ha |
| 13:53:44 | Mikachu | you weren't joking? |
| 13:53:50 | orthogonal | nope |
| 13:53:57 | orthogonal | `` |
| 13:55:44 | Mikachu | sorry |
| 13:55:56 | orthogonal | don't worry about it dude |
| 13:57:19 | orthogonal | nom, dude, I'm just fucking with you. |
| 13:57:28 | orthogonal | I'm just a terrible typist |
| 13:57:51 | orthogonal | I can't touvh typwe |
| 13:58:11 | Mikachu | http://www.visitmonmouth.com/06571jlmlab/page2.html |
| 14:00 |
| 14:01:36 | | Quit Rob2222_ () |
| 14:03:45 | Mikachu | hm, my binaries got named sh-elf-* instead of arm-elf-* |
| 14:03:49 | Mikachu | doh |
| 14:03:52 | Mikachu | i'm stupid :) |
| 14:04:29 | Mikachu | "all instructions from here on are for sh-1" |
| 14:07:00 | linuxstb | Mikachu: Can you remind me what patches you've submitted for the iPod? |
| 14:07:13 | Mikachu | isn't that what the tracker is for? |
| 14:07:17 | linuxstb | OK :) |
| 14:07:23 | Mikachu | not trying to be rude but i don't remember offhand |
| 14:07:24 | | Quit orthogonal ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]") |
| 14:09:36 | | Join gtkspert_ [0] (n=gtkspert@019.a.001.rkh.iprimus.net.au) |
| 14:10:21 | | Part IcyStorM |
| 14:11:57 | | Quit ashridah ("Leaving") |
| 14:12:23 | | Join orthogonal [0] (n=chatzill@c-24-30-242-135.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 14:13:10 | orthogonal | linuxstb: what type of build, normal or bootloader? |
| 14:13:35 | midkay | normal |
| 14:13:46 | linuxstb | Unless you want to build the bootloader... |
| 14:13:47 | Mikachu | linuxstb: and i think i have one bug open too |
| 14:14:14 | Mikachu | if you press MENU in the now playing context's View Playlist menu, you have to reboot |
| 14:15:32 | linuxstb | Yes, I know about that. We still need to fix the button mappings in lots of places. |
| 14:15:44 | Mikachu | that's sort of the only really annoying one :) |
| 14:16:29 | linuxstb | Have you tried preglow's CPU speed patch? |
| 14:16:35 | Mikachu | no |
| 14:16:51 | orthogonal | what does it do? |
| 14:16:56 | | Join RoC_MM [0] (i=dragon@dsl-29-8.cofs.net) |
| 14:17:05 | linuxstb | Dynamically changes the CPU speed depending on the load. |
| 14:17:09 | freqmod | where do i get the path? |
| 14:17:12 | linuxstb | Sort of... |
| 14:17:28 | linuxstb | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DynamicCPUFrequency |
| 14:19:12 | | Quit tvelocity ("Ex-Chat") |
| 14:20:53 | * | JdGordon is bored and needs something to do... |
| 14:20:58 | JdGordon | any ideas? |
| 14:20:59 | freqmod | linuxstb: i have added a fix to the text viewer on ipod ( http://www.rockbox.org/bugs/task/4729 ) |
| 14:21:29 | Mikachu | you can trim a patch |
| 14:21:53 | JdGordon | ? |
| 14:21:59 | linuxstb | JdGordon: I have a pacman emulator I want to port to Rockbox... |
| 14:22:00 | Nico_P | JdGordon: maybe fox your color picker patch ? |
| 14:22:07 | Nico_P | fox = fix... |
| 14:22:16 | JdGordon | Nico_P: ye i prob should do that :p; |
| 14:22:21 | Mikachu | is it broken? |
| 14:22:35 | orthogonal | a color picker??? |
| 14:22:38 | Nico_P | i think it's still malformed |
| 14:22:49 | Mikachu | ah right, maybe i had to edit it a bit before i applied it |
| 14:22:57 | | Join slimx [0] (n=slimx@vau75-7-82-234-251-56.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:23:14 | Nico_P | well if your edited version works, could you send it ? |
| 14:23:35 | Nico_P | IIRC i rtied to edit it but i must have made a mistake because it didn't build |
| 14:24:20 | Nico_P | Mikachu: could you re-send ? my client has ignored the file... |
| 14:24:25 | | Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@ipa41.2.tellas.gr) |
| 14:24:33 | * | Mikachu sighs :) |
| 14:24:50 | Nico_P | sorry... default setting :( |
| 14:24:52 | Nico_P | thx |
| 14:28:04 | | Quit aliask ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]") |
| 14:31:03 | orthogonal | jesus, this build is taking forever |
| 14:31:14 | orthogonal | - |
| 14:31:15 | orthogonal | ` |
| 14:31:31 | linuxstb | Yes, cygwin is slow, and Rockbox has grown very big. |
| 14:31:37 | | Quit Xerion (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 14:31:54 | | Join Xerion [0] (i=xerion@zorgash.student.utwente.nl) |
| 14:33:18 | amiconn | orthogonal: make -j should speed it up somewhat |
| 14:34:01 | orthogonal | fhag's ghag ry? |
| 14:34:36 | orthogonal | what's that do? |
| 14:35:40 | orthogonal | linuxstb: where do I tell it I have 64MB memory? |
| 14:36:28 | linuxstb | Try changing tools/configure |
| 14:37:16 | amiconn | Hmm, now I have a problem :/ |
| 14:37:22 | JdGordon | linuxstb: apart from the long lines and the translation, was there anything else that was needed to be fixed int he color patch? |
| 14:37:45 | amiconn | I have 2 functions that are *only* existing for the simulator, and I need to put them in the plugin api |
| 14:38:09 | amiconn | but I can't include simulator .h files from apps/ |
| 14:38:24 | linuxstb | You can't just make them inline? |
| 14:38:28 | Nico_P | JdGordon: what about a few color presets ? |
| 14:38:33 | amiconn | linuxstb: ?? |
| 14:38:50 | JdGordon | Nico_P: i thought about adding a preset text file and have a menu... saves extra code |
| 14:38:54 | amiconn | They are simulator code, and need to be in the api |
| 14:39:02 | midkay | loadable preset 'themes' sound cool.. |
| 14:39:03 | amiconn | ...so that plugins can access them. |
| 14:39:39 | linuxstb | Then I guess the code itself needs to be in either firmware or apps. |
| 14:39:44 | amiconn | Nope |
| 14:39:58 | amiconn | The code needs to be in uisimulator/* |
| 14:40:11 | amiconn | Either common or implementation specific |
| 14:40:58 | Nico_P | JdGordon: yea, that would be nice. |
| 14:41:04 | amiconn | The code needs access to the lcd simulation (functions and data) |
| 14:41:12 | Nico_P | and that way we can customise the text file |
| 14:41:16 | Paul_The_Nerd | midkay: Loadable preset themes would just be config files stripped down to just have the colors. |
| 14:41:21 | * | amiconn is working on grayscale lib support for the sims |
| 14:41:54 | amiconn | I can just declare them in plugin.c (extern) |
| 14:41:55 | orthogonal | linuxstb: line 757 |
| 14:41:59 | amiconn | Dirty, but should work |
| 14:42:00 | Paul_The_Nerd | I mean, you could have a folder called colors and under it, a foreground and background folder, and under it, several .cfgs that just have color entries, and not need to add any code at all to what's already there. |
| 14:42:36 | Paul_The_Nerd | You could probably even put it under the /themes/ folder, so that you can get to it with browse themes. |
| 14:42:40 | Paul_The_Nerd | *probably* |
| 14:42:47 | Paul_The_Nerd | I don't know if browse themes will see subdirectories. |
| 14:42:51 | midkay | Paul_The_Nerd, right - that'd also be cool in that it could tie into other themes related to font, WPS, background, etc |
| 14:43:07 | JdGordon | Paul_The_Nerd: ye, but thats a hassle.. and not the nicest way to do it |
| 14:43:15 | | Join spaceinvedersdev [0] (n=51b248ca@labb.contactor.se) |
| 14:43:30 | * | Paul_The_Nerd shrugs. |
| 14:43:46 | Paul_The_Nerd | It seems like something you only really need to set up once, and then you're done, and it doesn't add any code size at all. |
| 14:43:47 | spaceinvedersdev | i've got a question - do how does using b&w bitmaps work? |
| 14:44:07 | midkay | 'using'? |
| 14:44:15 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah, I was gonna ask, what do you mean? |
| 14:44:17 | spaceinvedersdev | sorry - in plugins |
| 14:44:26 | midkay | you need to use bmp2rb |
| 14:44:45 | midkay | which in turn requires a development environment |
| 14:44:48 | linuxstb | midkay: No, the build system will do that for you. |
| 14:44:48 | midkay | (cygwin or linux) |
| 14:44:54 | spaceinvedersdev | on colour targets are bitmaps in /apps/plugins/bitmaps/native included? |
| 14:44:59 | midkay | linuxstb, either way you need a dev environment |
| 14:45:01 | | Quit RoC_MM ("Leaving") |
| 14:45:21 | midkay | linuxstb, and that's if they're not contained within the plugin itself |
| 14:45:23 | linuxstb | midkay: I sort of assumed spaceinvedersdev is developing a plugin, so he must have a dev environment |
| 14:45:27 | | Quit tvelocity (Remote closed the connection) |
| 14:45:28 | spaceinvedersdev | i know what i'm doing with building and stuff - it's just i've got a b&w game and the bitmaps are 24 bit which is silly |
| 14:45:33 | midkay | haha, ah, yeah :) |
| 14:45:44 | linuxstb | midkay: The point is that they shouldn't be hard-coded in the plugin .c file any more. |
| 14:46:04 | midkay | linuxstb, alright |
| 14:46:10 | spaceinvedersdev | so how do I get b&w bitmaps so I can also support b&w lcds |
| 14:46:16 | linuxstb | spaceinvedersdev: There are two types of bitmaps in Rockbox - mono and native. That determines which directory under plugins/bitmaps/ they go in. |
| 14:46:22 | | Quit muesli__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 14:47:01 | spaceinvedersdev | so I just save the pics in mono - but are they still included in colour builds? |
| 14:47:08 | linuxstb | mono bitmaps are always 1bpp, and are drawn (I think) using the current fg colour. |
| 14:47:28 | linuxstb | native bitmaps are the native depth of the LCD - which can also be 1bpp on some LCDs. |
| 14:47:47 | amiconn | They are drawn with the current drawmode, and the foreground and background colour depending on the drawmode |
| 14:48:08 | spaceinvedersdev | ok thanks |
| 14:50:24 | JdGordon | linuxstb: whats the diff between ID2P() and str() for the translation? |
| 14:51:28 | linuxstb | JdGordon: I don't know anything about the language system. |
| 14:51:34 | JdGordon | ok |
| 14:51:54 | linuxstb | I just do what I see other code doing... |
| 14:52:51 | spaceinvedersdev | so sorry - i'm still confused; because my bitmaps are mono - they're going in the mono folder, but what do I name them at the end? |
| 14:53:13 | spaceinvedersdev | the target's LCD size and bit depth or the bitmap's size and depth |
| 14:53:27 | linuxstb | The convention so far is to name them based on the target lcd size. |
| 14:54:22 | spaceinvedersdev | and the bitdepth - so a monochrome bitmap called space_invaders_alien.200x176x16.bmp is ok |
| 14:54:41 | spaceinvedersdev | sorry 220 x176 |
| 14:55:04 | Paul_The_Nerd | If that's the bitmap you want to use on 220x176x16 screens, then yeah |
| 14:55:22 | linuxstb | Maybe you don't need the x16 at the end - if your bitmaps will work equally well on LCDs with any depth. |
| 14:55:39 | amiconn | Mono bitmaps should work equal on all target depths |
| 14:56:29 | spaceinvedersdev | i just thought bmp2rb might need that kind of stuff - it's remarkable how all I have to do is declare some const fb_data and the rest is all sorted out behind the scenes |
| 14:56:58 | linuxstb | No, bmp2rb doesn't care about the filename - it just strips off everything after the first period. |
| 14:57:11 | spaceinvedersdev | ok |
| 14:59:37 | | Quit perplexity (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:35 | JdGordon | any1 who matters: yes/no to the idea of having a text file under .rockbox/ with a list of colours for the chooser? |
| 15:02:33 | | Join |Beowulf| [0] (n=Beowulf@82-46-57-180.cable.ubr02.trow.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 15:03:17 | linuxstb | IMO it's an unneccessary complication. |
| 15:03:27 | Jungti1234 | markun |
| 15:03:52 | JdGordon | it adds like 30lines of code... not really complicated |
| 15:03:53 | safetydan | JdGordon, couldn't you just use the cfg system? |
| 15:05:04 | * | JdGordon doesnt want it at all.. but im trying to make the wingers on MR happy :D |
| 15:05:13 | linuxstb | I may be wrong, but I imagine that most people won't care about setting colours manually themselves, but will just load a theme .cfg file. |
| 15:05:28 | linuxstb | The real problem is a lack of themes |
| 15:05:30 | safetydan | JdGordon, that way lies madness |
| 15:05:42 | JdGordon | i know :'( |
| 15:06:11 | linuxstb | But yes, a directory full of .cfg files would do the same thing with no code. |
| 15:07:08 | linuxstb | Although that would be a little wasteful on disk space... |
| 15:07:16 | Paul_The_Nerd | linuxstb: People *really* want color presets. BADLY. |
| 15:07:20 | Paul_The_Nerd | It's strange. |
| 15:07:38 | linuxstb | Paul_The_Nerd: To me, "color presets" == "theme .cfg files" |
| 15:07:47 | Paul_The_Nerd | linuxstb: That's *exactly* what I said. |
| 15:08:11 | Paul_The_Nerd | I think though that a lot of the mysticriver people don't really see the flexibility config files allow. |
| 15:08:52 | linuxstb | If we implemented colour presets, then it should be done properly via the language system. But that really needs langv2 so we don't waste a load of strings on colour names for targets without colour. |
| 15:09:48 | JdGordon | linuxstb: thats 1 reason why i figured do it in a seperate txt file and load it if its asked for.. |
| 15:09:52 | spaceinvedersdev | talking of features people want - how about a make plugins: target in the root makefile that dows bmp2rb and builds the plugins? |
| 15:09:52 | Paul_The_Nerd | Apparently one of the big issues is "RGB colors are too confusing" for some of them. |
| 15:10:12 | JdGordon | some ppl are stupid :p |
| 15:10:13 | Nico_P | :p |
| 15:10:26 | linuxstb | How can having a large rectangle showing you the colour be confusing? The RGB values are just an extra |
| 15:11:04 | Paul_The_Nerd | I really don't know. |
| 15:11:06 | JdGordon | whats the command to add a new file?? cvsdo something? |
| 15:11:18 | safetydan | cvsdo add <file> |
| 15:12:15 | JdGordon | cheers |
| 15:13:02 | midkay | doesn't optimization feel great?.. i just reduced 137 lines of code to under 20. |
| 15:13:12 | JdGordon | $ cvsdo add apps/gui/color_picker.c |
| 15:13:12 | JdGordon | Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /usr/bin/cvsdo line |
| 15:13:12 | JdGordon | 191, <ENTRIES> line 29. ?? |
| 15:13:51 | safetydan | not a clue, probably a bug in the cvsdo script |
| 15:14:57 | orthogonal | how so midkay ? |
| 15:15:11 | JdGordon | ok, well im done... again... no lines longer than 85 chars (cant help a few), color not colour, translation done, compiles on b+w targets, no warnings on colour targets.. what have i forgotten? |
| 15:15:21 | JdGordon | apart from the new file not adding to the patch for whatevr reason... |
| 15:15:25 | midkay | orthogonal, my messy binary clock that relied on a series of if/elses i just switched to two for-loops :) |
| 15:15:35 | safetydan | JdGordon, are you doing cvs diff -uN ? |
| 15:15:43 | JdGordon | -u |
| 15:15:45 | safetydan | you need the N otherwise new files don't show |
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| 15:16:01 | JdGordon | ah |
| 15:16:03 | JdGordon | ok |
| 15:16:39 | orthogonal | midkay: good work |
| 15:16:40 | JdGordon | done done done done done |
| 15:16:57 | midkay | orthogonal, :D thx.. unsure of why i didn't think of it before, haha. |
| 15:17:04 | midkay | didn't know so much about optimization i guess |
| 15:17:11 | orthogonal | indeedd ;) |
| 15:17:35 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 15:17:51 | JdGordon | and ill just test to make sure the default colours load, not black on black |
| 15:18:03 | linuxstb | JdGordon: I've just read the misticriver thread about presets... It seems that one person is demanding presets, and everyone else is happy with the power of the sliders. |
| 15:18:08 | | Quit freqmod (Remote closed the connection) |
| 15:18:40 | JdGordon | ye, im calling it quits.. im sick of this code.. testing then uploading :p |
| 15:19:01 | JdGordon | yes! it works |
| 15:19:32 | JdGordon | and iv got it showing RGB:rrggbb for u... |
| 15:19:37 | | Join perplexity [0] (i=heh16936@217.165.99.160) |
| 15:20:41 | linuxstb | JdGordon: :) Can you make it "RGB: #rrggbb" - that's how I normally see rgb colours written. |
| 15:20:51 | linuxstb | Also, are the sliders still wrapping? |
| 15:20:59 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah, the # sign is vitally important. :-P |
| 15:21:11 | * | Paul_The_Nerd prefers it that way too, by the way. |
| 15:21:16 | JdGordon | # not 0x ?? |
| 15:21:35 | linuxstb | Yes - that seems to be the convention. e.g. in css/html files |
| 15:21:35 | JdGordon | only if u commit it tonight :p |
| 15:22:06 | linuxstb | only if you stop the sliders wrapping... |
| 15:22:28 | | Quit ender` (" When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stol) |
| 15:22:36 | JdGordon | ? slidders not wrapping feels odd |
| 15:22:49 | | Quit damaki (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:22:57 | Paul_The_Nerd | It seems really odd to go from 31 to 0, though |
| 15:23:03 | linuxstb | It just makes it hard to set the minimum and maximum values. |
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| 15:23:25 | JdGordon | ?? its eaiser... u dnont have to hit right 31 times to get max red |
| 15:23:28 | Nico_P | JdGordon: are colors still stored as 3 settings each in cfg files ? |
| 15:23:34 | JdGordon | ye |
| 15:23:46 | linuxstb | You just hold the right button down until it reaches the end. |
| 15:24:09 | Nico_P | wouldn't it be easyer to store only one hex value rrggbb ? |
| 15:24:10 | linuxstb | Maybe it's different on the h300 - on the iPods, it's very quick to move to the start/end of the slider. |
| 15:24:22 | JdGordon | _fiiiinne__ |
| 15:25:23 | Paul_The_Nerd | Maybe do what's done with the menus? Stop at the end, and then if someone release and presses again, wrap? |
| 15:25:39 | linuxstb | That sounds perfect to me. |
| 15:25:41 | Nico_P | i agree |
| 15:25:47 | lostlogic | anyone see my software codec playback wiki page? (amiconn in particular) is it helpful? whether it is or is not, what type of additional information would be wanted in it? |
| 15:25:52 | * | JdGordon doesnt.. too complicated :p |
| 15:26:24 | linuxstb | Paul_The_Nerd: But then again, that's hard with the ipod's scrollwheel. It doesn't give press/release events. |
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| 15:26:56 | Paul_The_Nerd | Aaah |
| 15:27:50 | Paul_The_Nerd | How 'bout just putting an ifdef, and only not wrapping with IPOD_4G_PAD, since it probably doesn't need to wrap. |
| 15:28:05 | Paul_The_Nerd | I mean, yeah that breaks the "identical behaviour among targets" but then again, it's also a completely different input method. |
| 15:28:22 | Paul_The_Nerd | Or rather, all ipod pads. |
| 15:31:47 | linuxstb | JdGordon: I have a clean source tree waiting for your patch when it's ready.... |
| 15:32:21 | JdGordon | almost ready |
| 15:32:27 | JdGordon | translation is wrong for some reason |
| 15:32:42 | JdGordon | probably a copy/paste error..s omewhere |
| 15:35:01 | JdGordon | i tihnk im wearing out my usb connection |
| 15:37:41 | JdGordon | ok, something is very wierd... the text isnt being translated correctly... the wrong text is shown.. BUT i have just double checked the code and its all fine.. it should be loading the correct text.. |
| 15:38:18 | JdGordon | anyway... http://www.rockbox.org/bugs/task/3050 |
| 15:38:25 | Nico_P | have you changed tu lang file on your player ? |
| 15:38:29 | JdGordon | yup |
| 15:38:30 | Nico_P | tu>the |
| 15:38:35 | Nico_P | ok |
| 15:41:59 | Jungti1234 | hm |
| 15:42:04 | Jungti1234 | help me |
| 15:42:49 | Jungti1234 | I modified source code. |
| 15:43:05 | Jungti1234 | And is going to test it. |
| 15:43:24 | Jungti1234 | Then, must I compile again? |
| 15:43:40 | spaceinvedersdev | Jungti1234: yes |
| 15:43:51 | linuxstb | I thought the intention was to store the native colour (i.e. the 16-bit RGB565 value) in the config block? |
| 15:44:11 | JdGordon | linuxstb: no, 8bit in config and native in ram |
| 15:44:12 | Jungti1234 | hmm.. |
| 15:44:55 | linuxstb | I thought 8-bit in external .cfg files, but native in the config block. |
| 15:44:56 | JdGordon | ...so changin the colour in the txt file was easier..? |
| 15:45:24 | JdGordon | i dunno.. change it if u cbf.. |
| 15:45:57 | linuxstb | I can tell you're bored of this patch :) I'm happy to take it over. |
| 15:46:02 | Paul_The_Nerd | Hehehe |
| 15:46:09 | JdGordon | hahah |
| 15:46:13 | JdGordon | how could u tell?? |
| 15:46:20 | JdGordon | also its 1.45am here so im asleep |
| 15:46:38 | linuxstb | The "cbf" is a clue (if I'm guessing correctly what it means) |
| 15:46:40 | midkay | that's nothing.. 6:45am here! ;) |
| 15:46:47 | JdGordon | :) |
| 15:47:12 | JdGordon | but.. isnt it a pain to save to 8bit to the cfg file? |
| 15:47:30 | linuxstb | Not really - we have the macros to convert between the two formats now. |
| 15:49:05 | JdGordon | by pain i mean haveing to manually save/load it.. |
| 15:49:31 | JdGordon | it will free up a whopping 24bit of RAM in the config block tho :p |
| 15:49:59 | JdGordon | anyway.. im going to bed |
| 15:50:03 | JdGordon | cyaz |
| 15:50:06 | linuxstb | gnight. |
| 15:51:16 | | Quit JdGordon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:51:39 | safetydan | 24 bits is a lot when you only have 1472 of them, it's nearly 2% |
| 15:53:08 | Paul_The_Nerd | Actually, wouldn't it only save 8-bits? Decreasing from 24 to 16? |
| 15:53:10 | linuxstb | I'm changing it now. |
| 15:53:34 | * | Paul_The_Nerd mutters about people on misticriver not even knowing if they're running optimized or not. |
| 15:53:42 | linuxstb | It's 8 bits per colour. Currently we are only storing two colours, but I guess it's possible we will store more in the future. |
| 15:53:49 | Paul_The_Nerd | Oh, right |
| 15:53:53 | Paul_The_Nerd | So 16 |
| 15:54:00 | Paul_The_Nerd | I forgot there was BG and FG. |
| 15:54:13 | Jungti1234 | Paprica |
| 15:54:20 | linuxstb | I'm thinking that at least the status bar should have different colours. |
| 15:54:25 | Paprica | ? |
| 15:54:41 | Jungti1234 | Do you know where is eli? |
| 15:54:42 | linuxstb | But that's all for the future... |
| 15:54:45 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 15:54:52 | Paprica | he is in the army |
| 15:55:09 | Jungti1234 | May I modify Rockword? |
| 15:55:18 | Paprica | yep |
| 15:55:19 | Paul_The_Nerd | It seems like each of the status bar elements could have a token of its own, and you could essentially have a menu WPS with the menu viewport, and the status bar tokens scattered about it. |
| 15:55:22 | Jungti1234 | ok |
| 15:55:34 | Paprica | you want to change the design? |
| 15:55:53 | linuxstb | Paul_The_Nerd: Yes, on second thoughts, a status bar WPS-like string is probably the way to go. |
| 15:56:59 | Jungti1234 | Paprica: no |
| 15:57:15 | Jungti1234 | I want to add function. |
| 15:57:26 | | Join muesli__ [0] (n=muesli_t@88.134.20.76) |
| 15:57:37 | Paprica | which? |
| 15:58:29 | Jungti1234 | open, save |
| 15:58:51 | Paprica | good luck ;] |
| 15:59:18 | Jungti1234 | I don't know that I can do it. hehe |
| 15:59:32 | Jungti1234 | Is going to try. |
| 15:59:48 | | Quit Maxime (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:00 |
| 16:04:54 | spaceinvedersdev | hmm after trying to use mono bitmaps and clean up code a bit space_invaders compiles without warning, but crashes both the win32 and sdl sims (from cygwin) |
| 16:05:44 | safetydan | gdb back trace? |
| 16:05:50 | spaceinvedersdev | i get a "do you want to send an error report" |
| 16:06:03 | spaceinvedersdev | i wish i knew what gdb back trace was |
| 16:06:06 | safetydan | ah |
| 16:06:14 | safetydan | run the sim like this |
| 16:06:18 | safetydan | gdb ./rockboxui |
| 16:06:26 | safetydan | then type "run" |
| 16:06:46 | spaceinvedersdev | i'll try |
| 16:06:50 | safetydan | then make it crash again |
| 16:06:55 | safetydan | gdb should tell you where it crashed |
| 16:08:01 | spaceinvedersdev | program recieved signal SIGSEGU, segmentation fault in memcpy.c 94 |
| 16:08:11 | safetydan | okay, type |
| 16:08:12 | safetydan | "bt" |
| 16:08:34 | safetydan | that should give you a back trace |
| 16:09:21 | linuxstb | Are you using rb->memcpy() ? |
| 16:09:58 | spaceinvedersdev | at the top is an lcd_bitmap_part (wich I never call) but below it is an lcd_bitmap which is my menu background |
| 16:10:06 | spaceinvedersdev | i don't use memcpy |
| 16:10:13 | | Join doctor [0] (n=doc__@81.198.37.118) |
| 16:10:40 | linuxstb | Can you paste the line that calls lcd_bitmap? |
| 16:11:59 | spaceinvedersdev | ok "rb->lcd_bitmap(space_invaders_menu_bg, 0, 0, LCD_WIDTH,LCD_HEIGHT);" |
| 16:12:49 | safetydan | All I can think of is that space_invaders_menu_bg isn't a valid pointer |
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| 16:17:41 | | Quit San (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:18:14 | spaceinvedersdev | i am on windows - i bet it's just paint buggering me about |
| 16:18:57 | spaceinvedersdev | wouldn't the compiler pick up an invalid pointer? |
| 16:19:23 | Paul_The_Nerd | Not if it's valid in the sense that "It points somewhere" but invalid in the sense "it doesn't point where you expect it" |
| 16:20:21 | spaceinvedersdev | right - but i've got "extern const fb_data space_invaders_menu_bg[];" |
| 16:20:41 | spaceinvedersdev | at top level |
| 16:20:55 | | Quit gtkspert_ ("leaving") |
| 16:21:38 | spaceinvedersdev | and it all worked when I had 24bit bitmaps - now i've saved them as monochrome in /apps/plugins/bitmaps/mono............. |
| 16:21:44 | spaceinvedersdev | i've got an idea |
| 16:22:03 | spaceinvedersdev | i've got both a colour and a mono one in the same source tree |
| 16:23:23 | spaceinvedersdev | that'll be it - so the extern const fb_data gets confused aecause there are 2 space_invaders_menu_bg's |
| 16:23:24 | Paul_The_Nerd | spaceinvadersdev: Are you sure you've got the line right in the makefile for the bitmaps? |
| 16:23:44 | Paul_The_Nerd | Err, sources file |
| 16:23:44 | Paul_The_Nerd | Sorry |
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| 16:25:26 | spaceinvedersdev | i've included both 1bit and 24bit bitmaps with the same name in the sources files - i've removed the 24bit ones and am recompiling |
| 16:26:52 | Paul_The_Nerd | Ah, you should #ifdef around various ones to make sure the right ones are included for the right targets |
| 16:26:55 | Paul_The_Nerd | You can't just lump them all in. |
| 16:27:13 | spaceinvedersdev | yes |
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| 16:27:41 | Nico_P | [15:53:41] * Paul_The_Nerd mutters about people on misticriver not even knowing if they're running optimized or not. |
| 16:27:51 | Nico_P | Paul_The_Nerd; are you llorean on MR ? |
| 16:28:24 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 16:28:39 | Nico_P | just read the thread you were talking about ;) |
| 16:28:53 | Paul_The_Nerd | I just wanted to help, but it's really difficult if I can't even identify the problem. |
| 16:29:15 | Nico_P | yea it's frustrating |
| 16:29:18 | spaceinvedersdev | it still crashes |
| 16:30:26 | Paul_The_Nerd | spaceinvadersdev: Want to paste that portion of your code, and maybe the SOURCES file at pastebin? |
| 16:32:29 | Jungti1234 | markun? |
| 16:33:31 | spaceinvedersdev | i've not changed my code since last time, and last time it worked - i'm just presuming windows is getting the bitmaps wrong |
| 16:34:32 | linuxstb | spaceinvedersdev: If your bitmap is in the apps/plugins/bitmaps/mono directory, you have to display it using rb->lcd_mono_bitmap() |
| 16:34:59 | spaceinvedersdev | OMg thanx linuxstb |
| 16:35:06 | linuxstb | The lcd_bitmap() function is for native bitmaps. |
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| 16:36:10 | spaceinvedersdev | i'm sooooo stoopid |
| 16:36:40 | | Quit XavierGr ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com") |
| 16:36:41 | | Quit doctor (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:41:31 | Nico_P | linuxstb: have you seen the latest album art update ? |
| 16:41:59 | Nico_P | and would you have advice on how to put the bitmaps in the audio buffer, as you suggested ? |
| 16:44:33 | linuxstb | No, I haven't had chance to look at it. I don't think it's easy to put the bitmaps in the audio buffer - I was hoping that someone else who knows the audio buffering code could help with that. Maybe lostlogic? |
| 16:45:16 | Nico_P | and is the potential gain worth it ? |
| 16:45:20 | linuxstb | Definitely. |
| 16:45:33 | linuxstb | Especially for people who don't use album art. |
| 16:45:40 | Nico_P | what improvement would we see ? memory usage ? speed ? both ? |
| 16:45:47 | linuxstb | Just memory usage. |
| 16:45:52 | Nico_P | ok |
| 16:46:20 | linuxstb | It would also allow you to increase the limit on size - so a user could have full-screen album art if he/she wanted to. |
| 16:46:32 | linuxstb | (maybe...) |
| 16:46:45 | Nico_P | nice |
| 16:47:01 | Nico_P | currently i've set the buffer size to 15250, to allow 125x125 max |
| 16:48:13 | MarcoPolo | is album art support in cvs ? |
| 16:48:26 | Nico_P | MarcoPolo: no, it's only in a patch |
| 16:48:31 | MarcoPolo | Nico_P: ok |
| 16:48:43 | Nico_P | and also in needleboy's h300 optimised build |
| 16:48:50 | MarcoPolo | I tried rockbox on my iPod the whole week and it works rather well |
| 16:49:16 | MarcoPolo | it only isn't gapless on 500kbps OGG ;-) |
| 16:49:36 | MarcoPolo | the only problem is I can't load the battery AND play music |
| 16:49:54 | Paul_The_Nerd | Hold Menu while plugging in USB |
| 16:50:06 | Paul_The_Nerd | It'll charge instead of rebooting. |
| 16:54:41 | | Quit spaceinvedersdev ("CGI:IRC") |
| 16:57:22 | safetydan | I'm really beginning to think we need to get the "optimised" build renamed. |
| 16:57:38 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 16:57:56 | safetydan | Or at least, a much stronger indication that it is potentially more unstable than rockbox.org builds |
| 16:57:56 | Paul_The_Nerd | And like, big red bold letters that say "This is an unofficial build. Performance is not indicative of actual Rockbox performance." |
| 16:59:10 | Paul_The_Nerd | And especially "Before reporting a bug, try a clean non-optimized build, and verify that this bug occurs in it." |
| 17:00 |
| 17:01:36 | linuxstb | Haven't we all said that a hundred times in the past? |
| 17:01:57 | linuxstb | But that's the nature of the GPL - we have given away control. |
| 17:02:00 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 17:02:00 | safetydan | true |
| 17:02:09 | Paul_The_Nerd | But has anyone asked needleboy to put a clearer disclaimer? |
| 17:02:14 | Mikachu | doesn't it require forks to change the name? |
| 17:02:29 | safetydan | Doesn't mean you can't try and get people to understand that it's not optimised as such, just more unstable |
| 17:02:38 | Mikachu | at least you didn't pick bsd license :) |
| 17:03:20 | linuxstb | safetydan: I agree. My personal perference would be "experimental". If it's taken in that light, then I think unofficial builds are a good thing for testing and developing new patches |
| 17:03:45 | Paul_The_Nerd | linuxstb: I was just going to suggest "experimental." My first thought was "unstable" but that sounds far too negative really. |
| 17:04:41 | safetydan | linuxstb, experimental is probably the best |
| 17:04:47 | safetydan | it is a good testing ground for patches |
| 17:06:13 | Paul_The_Nerd | I think it may be far too late to get the name changed though. |
| 17:07:42 | linuxstb | The main problem is that none of the people with cvs write access have taken an interest in the UI side of Rockbox - which is the main difference in the optimised build, and the main complaint of MR users. |
| 17:08:53 | Paul_The_Nerd | I dunno, other than JDGordon's patch, Optimized has what, scroll margins and album art? |
| 17:09:22 | linuxstb | There are probably WPS-related patches there as well. The difference is smaller now than it was though. |
| 17:09:34 | MarcoPolo | where is this experimental build ? |
| 17:09:47 | Paul_The_Nerd | MarcoPolo: It's only for h300s |
| 17:09:51 | | Join jlo [0] (n=chatzill@atm91-1-82-227-1-35.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:09:55 | MarcoPolo | Paul_The_Nerd: doh :( |
| 17:09:56 | MarcoPolo | :) |
| 17:10:05 | jlo | hello |
| 17:10:17 | Jungti1234 | hi |
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| 17:14:28 | | Quit jlo__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 17:16:26 | | Quit Moos ("Glory to Rockbox!") |
| 17:16:44 | | Join jlo__ [0] (n=jlo@atm91-1-82-227-1-35.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:17:39 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:18:56 | jlo__ | preglow : have you seen the lmods I did to fit your crossfeed needs ? |
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| 17:22:54 | jlo___ | I get disconnected every minute ! |
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| 17:28:23 | | Quit jlo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
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| 17:41:56 | | Quit Matze ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 17:47:12 | Jungti1234 | bye all |
| 17:47:28 | | Quit Jungti1234 () |
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| 18:00 |
| 18:00:43 | linuxstb | Does anyone know the difference between str(), STR() and ID2P() in the language system? |
| 18:11:02 | | Join Jungti1234 [0] (n=jungti12@124.60.15.86) |
| 18:11:07 | * | Bger tries to find their defines ... |
| 18:11:22 | Jungti1234 | hey |
| 18:11:34 | Jungti1234 | I have idea |
| 18:11:37 | Mikachu | you guys use ctags don't you? |
| 18:11:58 | Bger | apps/talk.h:55:#define STR(id) ID2P(id), id |
| 18:12:45 | Jungti1234 | Can't I control size of font in WPS? |
| 18:12:46 | pyro | What does MMC stand for? ifdefs all over with MMC |
| 18:12:56 | Bger | apps/settings.h:181:#define ID2P(id) (VIRT_PTR + id) |
| 18:13:06 | Jungti1234 | If it's possible, can make more various WPS. |
| 18:13:06 | Mikachu | Jungti1234: the fonts are bitmapped |
| 18:13:40 | Jungti1234 | so? |
| 18:13:42 | Paul_The_Nerd | pyro: Just a guess, since I have no clue: Maybe the media card in Ondios? |
| 18:13:53 | Mikachu | Jungti1234: you want to use many fonts at once? |
| 18:13:56 | Paul_The_Nerd | Jungti1234: So, each size must actually be a new font file, and there's no multiple-font support yet. |
| 18:14:02 | pyro | yeah - Mass Media Controller probably |
| 18:14:03 | Jungti1234 | Or, specify various font in WPS |
| 18:14:03 | linuxstb | Bger: Yes, I saw those defines, but still don't understand where I should str, where I should use STR, and where I should use ID2P. |
| 18:14:20 | pyro | thx |
| 18:14:28 | Jungti1234 | Mikachu: yes |
| 18:14:46 | Paul_The_Nerd | pyro: I was just thinking of the MMC flash cards. |
| 18:14:51 | Mikachu | Jungti1234: you can't |
| 18:15:17 | Jungti1234 | Can't you make it? |
| 18:15:22 | Paul_The_Nerd | Jungti1234: There has been some discussion about this, but nobody has taken on this job yet. It requires a large amount of work. |
| 18:15:23 | Jungti1234 | or we |
| 18:15:33 | Jungti1234 | hmm |
| 18:15:39 | Jungti1234 | ok.. |
| 18:15:54 | Jungti1234 | I want make U10 WPS |
| 18:16:38 | orthogonal | " Real" fonts would also use memeory. The more memory we use, the less room we have for teh mp3 buffer. The less buffer, the more we spin the disk. Teh more we spin teh disk, the less battery time we have. |
| 18:16:40 | Jungti1234 | http://cafefiles.naver.net/data15/2006/2/25/100/screen_albumart.jpg |
| 18:17:03 | orthogonal | and ultimattely, we want long battery time |
| 18:17:30 | orthogonal | Jungti1234: there's only one font on that page |
| 18:17:47 | Mikachu | hm, the clock in the statusbar, how is that handled? |
| 18:18:04 | orthogonal | rest of the crap is graphics |
| 18:18:06 | | Join SereRokR [0] (n=Fletcher@Fcc0a.f.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 18:18:24 | Mikachu | yeah but i have the statusbar on and it shows the time with a smaller font |
| 18:18:26 | linuxstb | Mikachu: That uses the built-in system font IIUC. |
| 18:18:36 | Mikachu | ah |
| 18:18:53 | Jungti1234 | orthogonal: So, I want to use various font. |
| 18:19:47 | orthogonal | Jungti1234: can't |
| 18:20:02 | linuxstb | Jungti1234: I don't think anyone objects to the idea, it's just that it hasn't been implemented yet. |
| 18:20:02 | Jungti1234 | :( |
| 18:20:04 | Paul_The_Nerd | Jungti1234: Well, if you feel like creating the patch, I'm sure many other people would be happy. |
| 18:20:22 | linuxstb | It's on that 5000-item Rockbox to-do list. |
| 18:20:23 | Jungti1234 | hehe |
| 18:20:25 | Jungti1234 | yes.. |
| 18:20:36 | orthogonal | Yeah, but it would take up memory |
| 18:20:57 | Jungti1234 | Font buffer is problem yet. |
| 18:21:25 | linuxstb | orthogonal: Yes, but not very much, and I think it's a worthwhile use of memory. |
| 18:21:31 | Bger | linuxstb where is the str() located? |
| 18:21:33 | Paul_The_Nerd | orthogonal: Yeah, but I have a flash based device, so I really don't care how much of *my* memory gets eaten up. :-P |
| 18:22:00 | orthogonal | Paul_The_Nerd: yes, i suppose you don't |
| 18:22:02 | orthogonal | ;) |
| 18:22:50 | orthogonal | But teh additional font would only be used in teh wps? |
| 18:22:52 | | Quit SereRokR (Client Quit) |
| 18:23:20 | Jungti1234 | http://club.iriver.co.kr/digital/review_view.asp?digital_review_idx=847 |
| 18:23:21 | Paul_The_Nerd | orthogonal: I think the idea is to have separate fonts between WPS, the menuing system, and the file browser. And within the WPS, the option of multiple fonts. |
| 18:23:25 | orthogonal | I mean, teh menus are only going to ever use one font, yes? |
| 18:23:34 | | Join SereRokR [0] (n=Fletcher@Fcc0a.f.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 18:23:42 | linuxstb | Bger: I'm mainly confused by settings_menu.c - if you search in there, you can see str(), STR() and ID2P() being used. I can't find the definition of str itself. |
| 18:23:42 | orthogonal | Then add'l fonts should be embdeed in the wps |
| 18:24:21 | Paul_The_Nerd | How do you mean "embedded in the wps?" |
| 18:24:47 | orthogonal | well, make it so that a wps could reserve more memory, and read teh font info with teh wps |
| 18:25:12 | Bger | linuxstb same with me ... |
| 18:25:14 | orthogonal | I mean, if I have a wos that only uses one fiont, I don't want to pay for reading 20 other fonts into memeory, yes? |
| 18:25:16 | linuxstb | We have to have a fixed amount of memory for the wps - where would we get extra from? |
| 18:25:27 | orthogonal | linuxstb: from the top of memory |
| 18:25:38 | linuxstb | But that is in use by the audio buffer |
| 18:25:52 | orthogonal | At one point I looked at doing something like this: dyanamiclaly moving teh end of teh mpeg buffer |
| 18:26:20 | Paul_The_Nerd | It seems there should be a finite number of fonts for "dynamic" text in the WPS. Like, text using id3 info and stuff. |
| 18:26:28 | orthogonal | there are several places whweree you'd change a constant to a function call |
| 18:27:00 | Paul_The_Nerd | "static" text, anything the user typed into the .wps file, can essentially be prerendered so the font only needs to be loaded on WPS loading, right. Then the necessary glyphs are stored somewhere, and the rest of the font doesn't need to be kept around. |
| 18:27:41 | orthogonal | Paul_The_Nerd: except that that text may move, as a result of being centered, scrolled, yes |
| 18:27:46 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 18:27:52 | Jungti1234 | ok |
| 18:27:56 | Paul_The_Nerd | But I'm not talking about prerendering the screen image. |
| 18:27:58 | Jungti1234 | bye |
| 18:28:01 | orthogonal | but each static part of aline could be pre-rendere |
| 18:28:06 | Paul_The_Nerd | Just only loading a subsection of fonts that don't need to be dynamic |
| 18:28:07 | | Quit Jungti1234 () |
| 18:28:07 | linuxstb | orthogonal: Rockbox has also had unicode support added recently - which complicates the font handling by introducing a font cache. |
| 18:28:21 | orthogonal | what's in teh font cache? |
| 18:28:24 | linuxstb | (for fonts that contain a very large number of glyphs) |
| 18:28:29 | orthogonal | ah |
| 18:28:37 | orthogonal | for filthy furrinwers |
| 18:28:58 | linuxstb | Yes. 26 characters should be enough for everyone... |
| 18:29:03 | orthogonal | zactly |
| 18:29:12 | orthogonal | and down south, ju' 19 or so |
| 18:29:16 | Paul_The_Nerd | Man, two characters should be enough for everyone. |
| 18:29:25 | | Quit SereR0kR (Success) |
| 18:29:27 | orthogonal | 10101101101 |
| 18:29:37 | Paul_The_Nerd | If you can't just interpret long strings of binary into the appropriate ascii, ansi, or otherwise, I don't know what you're doing with a DAP, y'know? |
| 18:29:48 | orthogonal | :) |
| 18:30:17 | Mikachu | maybe instead of rendering the fonts it could just echo the binary with the piezoclicker |
| 18:30:41 | | Quit imphasing ("Lost terminal") |
| 18:31:00 | Paul_The_Nerd | Or flash the HD Led or virtual HD led for those that don't have an iPod. |
| 18:31:23 | orthogonal | I dunno about a FONT CACHE |
| 18:31:27 | orthogonal | i MEAN ONMAN IPOD, SURE |
| 18:31:41 | orthogonal | BUT ON A RECORDER V2, YOU WANT AKLLL 8 MEGS OF RAM |
| 18:31:55 | Mikachu | it seems you accidentally enabled caps lock |
| 18:31:59 | orthogonal | for mpegs |
| 18:32:05 | linuxstb | Or you are very angry... |
| 18:32:06 | orthogonal | yeah, I have a hard time typing |
| 18:32:16 | Paul_The_Nerd | Orthogonal: Well, there's the fact that a lot of the DAPs now supported have 32+ mb of ram. |
| 18:32:19 | Paul_The_Nerd | Or, 16+ |
| 18:32:28 | * | Paul_The_Nerd forgot about that one series. |
| 18:32:36 | orthogonal | but the whole ptoject started to support the archos |
| 18:32:41 | linuxstb | The purpose of the font cache is to reduce the amount of memory used by fonts... |
| 18:32:46 | orthogonal | it's kinda cruel to abandon them |
| 18:33:42 | orthogonal | linuxstb: oh, the build I did with 64? it can't find the codecs. Do I need to also compile the codeecs for 64? |
| 18:33:48 | Paul_The_Nerd | orthogonal: So, is it "don't add features that the archos can't support" or is it "force the archos to have less RAM available for mp3s by adding features that decrease it" or is it "add features, and only enable them in 8+ or 16+ mb targets" in your mind? |
| 18:34:13 | linuxstb | orthogonal: You need to compile everything, do make zip and then unzip that to your ipod. But there may well be other places in Rockbox where 32MB is hard-coded. |
| 18:34:18 | orthogonal | Paul_The_Nerd: the later. alrthough I'd make iot more granular than that. |
| 18:34:36 | orthogonal | linuxstb: erg. Thanks |
| 18:34:38 | linuxstb | apps/plugins/plugin.lds is one place to look. |
| 18:34:53 | orthogonal | the Mormons??? |
| 18:35:40 | orthogonal | Paul_The_Nerd: I guess in my haert I'm still thinking like a recorder owner |
| 18:36:24 | orthogonal | linuxstb: make zip? |
| 18:36:25 | Paul_The_Nerd | orthogonal: I'm all for any features that can run on Archos' to be supported in them, but at the same time you can't let that chain down the whole thing. 's all balance, 'eh? |
| 18:36:45 | orthogonal | sure |
| 18:36:56 | orthogonal | I mean, I have a 64mb ipod |
| 18:37:09 | orthogonal | so eventually I'm gonna be all about features ;) |
| 18:37:12 | Paul_The_Nerd | Heh |
| 18:37:28 | Paul_The_Nerd | I have an H120, a missing AJBR (I suspect my brother has it somewhere) and an iPod Nano. |
| 18:37:58 | orthogonal | tell me about the h120 |
| 18:37:59 | linuxstb | orthogonal: Yes, make zip will create a rockbox.zip file. This contains everything you need to install on your ipod - just unzip it to the root directory. |
| 18:38:05 | | Join ender [0] (i=ychat@84.52.165.220) |
| 18:38:12 | Paul_The_Nerd | The H120 is my very favorite player. |
| 18:38:19 | linuxstb | i.e. fonts, plugins, codecs, themes... |
| 18:38:26 | | Quit ender` (Nick collision from services.) |
| 18:38:48 | | Nick ender is now known as ender` (i=ychat@84.52.165.220) |
| 18:39:06 | orthogonal | Paul_The_Nerd: specs? |
| 18:39:09 | Paul_The_Nerd | It has a nice, clean grayscale screen. It has an LCD remote, for easy use. It has spdif in and out, just 'cuz. It has FM Radio. And it's a swcodec platform. It's great for pure audio purposes, and has no visual flash. |
| 18:39:35 | orthogonal | size? |
| 18:39:45 | Paul_The_Nerd | The H120 is 20 gigs. |
| 18:39:50 | Paul_The_Nerd | Physically it's fairly hefty. |
| 18:40:02 | Paul_The_Nerd | I mean, not "big" but not small like iPods |
| 18:40:02 | orthogonal | ah. My recorder was 20, until I toree out the drive and put in a 60 |
| 18:40:06 | linuxstb | IMO, the only flaw in the h1x0/h3x0 is that the DAC can only work at 44.1KHz. |
| 18:40:22 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah, this one uses 1.8" drives, and can only fit a single platter, so I'm waiting for a 40 at least to be available. |
| 18:40:37 | orthogonal | Paul_The_Nerd: until I got the ipod, I'd have agreed with you. I have to admit I likes me a color screen |
| 18:40:44 | Bger | Paul_The_Nerd afaik it already is avail |
| 18:41:16 | linuxstb | Bger: If you want to buy one, or want to buy a million? |
| 18:41:26 | Paul_The_Nerd | Bger: I couldn't find anywhere to purchase a 40gb single platter last time I looked. |
| 18:41:30 | orthogonal | crap. he just tore a turtle into pieces and roasted it on a stick |
| 18:41:40 | linuxstb | Your ipod? |
| 18:41:46 | Paul_The_Nerd | orthogonal: My nano has a color screen, and besides the games in rockbox, I could care less. My WPS is black text on a white background. |
| 18:42:02 | orthogonal | linuxstb: crocodile hunter imittaion guy |
| 18:42:09 | linuxstb | Steve? |
| 18:42:17 | orthogonal | Paul_The_Nerd: oh, screw teh games. I likes me teh videos |
| 18:42:28 | | Join imphasing [0] (n=imphasin@c-69-250-93-218.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) |
| 18:42:30 | orthogonal | linuxstb: no, the guy who has to survive in the wild for aweek' |
| 18:42:36 | Paul_The_Nerd | See, I don't want videos on something that small |
| 18:42:42 | orthogonal | So I thought too |
| 18:42:55 | * | linuxstb doesn't have a clue what orthogonal is talking about.... |
| 18:42:59 | Paul_The_Nerd | If I wanted video on a portable, I'd get a PSP so I had a proper screen, and a decent size memory stick. |
| 18:43:00 | orthogonal | But it's great for webcasts of classes |
| 18:43:14 | orthogonal | linuxstb: on the science channel on tv |
| 18:43:26 | orthogonal | good point |
| 18:43:44 | | Quit paugh ("Leaving") |
| 18:44:50 | orthogonal | linuxstb: make zip isn't working fo rme |
| 18:45:16 | linuxstb | What does it say? |
| 18:46:18 | | Join TCK [0] (n=tckocr@81-178-128-102.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 18:47:44 | orthogonal | lemme pm it to you? |
| 18:47:56 | linuxstb | sure |
| 18:48:02 | linuxstb | You need to be registered though. |
| 18:48:38 | Mikachu | you can hax nickserv to allow msgs from unregged users |
| 18:51:50 | lostlogic | s/hax/use a standard command as designed in/ |
| 18:51:54 | Paul_The_Nerd | Hehehe |
| 18:51:56 | Mikachu | hax is shorter |
| 18:52:13 | Paul_The_Nerd | Gah. I had a question for you lostlogic, and now I've forgotten it entirely. |
| 18:52:40 | Bger | Paul_The_Nerd, http://www.ipodmods.com/shop/1515-hard-drive.html ? |
| 18:53:09 | Paul_The_Nerd | Bger: Wow, thanks. |
| 18:54:14 | Bger | just search for MK4006GAL or MK4007GAL (the newer version with perpendicular recording) |
| 18:54:16 | linuxstb | lostlogic: What do you think about storing album art images in the audio buffer, just before the track itself? Will it complicate the playback system at all? |
| 18:54:52 | lostlogic | linuxstb: we already store codecs there, if I understand it correctly, so it shouldn't be a problem |
| 18:55:19 | | Join virtualball2 [0] (n=virtualb@ACA76802.ipt.aol.com) |
| 18:55:27 | | Quit Bger (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 18:55:50 | virtualball2 | hey, whats the command to compile sources ? |
| 18:55:57 | Mikachu | make |
| 18:56:26 | virtualball2 | ya i know make but whenever i type make, it gives me an error with make.inc |
| 18:57:02 | Mikachu | are you running it in your build dir where you ran configure? |
| 18:57:04 | | Quit Rob2222 () |
| 18:57:30 | virtualball2 | well im not trying to compile rockbox, im trying to compile doom |
| 18:57:30 | orthogonal | yah |
| 18:57:35 | orthogonal | I have a cygwin problem |
| 18:57:37 | virtualball2 | and im using PATH |
| 18:57:45 | orthogonal | I thinK i hosed it installing teh prevbult toolchain |
| 18:58:01 | Mikachu | doom hooks into rb's build system |
| 18:58:16 | virtualball2 | so i put it into the build directory? |
| 18:58:35 | Mikachu | you want doom in apps/plugins, and apply the patch |
| 18:58:55 | virtualball2 | ok thanks! then i just compile rockbox normally? |
| 18:59:00 | Mikachu | should work |
| 18:59:08 | | Quit orthogonal ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]") |
| 18:59:09 | virtualball2 | thanks |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:10 | linuxstb | virtualball2: Are you compiling for an ipod? |
| 19:00:27 | virtualball2 | ya |
| 19:00:35 | virtualball2 | cuz doom now orks for the iPod |
| 19:00:57 | linuxstb | I think you will also need to increase the size of the PLUGIN_BUFFER_SIZE define in the config file for your iPod - firmware/export/config-ipod????.h |
| 19:01:04 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 19:01:10 | linuxstb | Change from 0x80000 to maybe 0xf0000 |
| 19:01:12 | Paul_The_Nerd | 0xA0000 is a good value for it. |
| 19:01:15 | virtualball2 | ok |
| 19:01:19 | Paul_The_Nerd | linuxstb: Doesn't need to be NEAR that big. |
| 19:01:22 | linuxstb | If 0xA0000 works, use that. |
| 19:01:30 | linuxstb | Paul_The_Nerd: I was just guessing.... |
| 19:01:33 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah |
| 19:01:41 | virtualball2 | wow you guys are really nice about these things :-P...if only the apple os loaded quicker, i wouldnt really need iPL lol |
| 19:02:22 | Mikachu | what do you do with ipl? |
| 19:02:24 | Mikachu | except play doom |
| 19:02:33 | | Quit Nico_P () |
| 19:02:37 | virtualball2 | well they have more games and apps |
| 19:02:51 | virtualball2 | \like a periodic table (which is very useful lol) |
| 19:02:55 | | Part _StarScream ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 19:02:56 | Mikachu | heh |
| 19:03:03 | Mikachu | you should port all those useful apps to rb |
| 19:03:17 | linuxstb | virtualball2: That can be your contribution back to Rockbox - port the IPL periodic table to Rockbox :) |
| 19:05:16 | virtualball2 | i can try lol |
| 19:05:40 | linuxstb | If you can compile Rockbox yourself, then you are half way there. |
| 19:05:41 | virtualball2 | is it really hard too, cuz i know basic C and a little more |
| 19:05:48 | virtualball2 | true lol |
| 19:07:19 | | Quit TCK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:07:38 | virtualball2 | so how hard would it be to port it? Are the wheel commands the same? |
| 19:08:38 | linuxstb | How does the IPL periodic table use the wheel? |
| 19:09:12 | linuxstb | In Rockbox, you call the "get_button()" function, and that returns things like BUTTON_MENU, BUTTON_PLAY or BUTTON_SCROLL_FWD |
| 19:09:23 | virtualball2 | Thats like iPL |
| 19:09:35 | virtualball2 | how does scrolling the wheel work? |
| 19:09:54 | linuxstb | At the moment, it just sends button events - BUTTON_SCROLL_FWD and BUTTON_SCROLL_BACK. |
| 19:10:03 | virtualball2 | oh ok |
| 19:10:28 | linuxstb | But there is also a patch (not in CVS) that gives you the location on the wheel the user is currently touching. |
| 19:10:53 | linuxstb | But Rockbox (and all the plugins) work on lots of different players - not just ipods. |
| 19:11:40 | | Join Gibbed [0] (i=rick@pool-71-108-9-40.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 19:11:42 | | Quit Rick (Nick collision from services.) |
| 19:11:54 | | Nick Gibbed is now known as Rick (i=rick@pool-71-108-9-40.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 19:12:13 | virtualball2 | ya that kinda bugs me, not that it works on other players but like how a game is up in the corner and like the calculator is in the lower left corner |
| 19:12:57 | linuxstb | That's because the original plugin was designed to run on one specific player. We don't want to make the same mistake with new plugins. |
| 19:13:12 | | Quit mikearthur (Remote closed the connection) |
| 19:13:16 | Mikachu | most of the buttons in calc don't do anything anyway |
| 19:13:37 | linuxstb | We also need people to adjust the old plugins to work on all targets - it done for some of them, but there are still lots left to do. |
| 19:14:24 | virtualball2 | ya |
| 19:16:45 | | Join Bger [0] (n=Bager@217.9.226.114) |
| 19:16:51 | virtualball2 | i personally think that bejewled and bickMania are one of the best looking, if not THE best looking games on the iPod...eveer lol |
| 19:16:52 | Paprica | mm is there some option to add another calendar to the cvs(color one)? (there is one for the archos...) |
| 19:17:17 | Paprica | virtualball2, thanks ;] |
| 19:17:39 | Mikachu | Paprica: do you have an ipod? |
| 19:17:41 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 19:17:43 | linuxstb | virtualball2: Doom isn't bad either.... |
| 19:17:49 | Paprica | no, h300 |
| 19:17:52 | Mikachu | ah |
| 19:18:01 | Mikachu | i added a patch to the tracker for absolute positioning on the ipod |
| 19:18:07 | virtualball2 | i didnt get it to work yet lol |
| 19:18:21 | Paprica | yeah, i saw |
| 19:18:49 | Mikachu | whoa |
| 19:18:50 | Paprica | i leave it to linuxstb or somthing else with ipod |
| 19:18:54 | Mikachu | the login failed popup on the tracker is awesome |
| 19:18:57 | Paprica | someone* |
| 19:19:17 | | Join yeahx [0] (n=aarond@c-67-160-124-13.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 19:20:13 | virtualball2 | Ok im compiling rockbox now, where do i find the .rock? or is that seperate from the built rb? |
| 19:21:15 | Paprica | virtualball2, are you compuling the simulator? |
| 19:21:17 | linuxstb | virtualball2: You should do "make zip" and then unzip everything in the resulting rockbox.zip to your ipod. |
| 19:22:01 | virtualball2 | oh ok...wow this is a lot more different the iP then i thaught lol |
| 19:22:05 | linuxstb | You have to run the Doom .rock with the rockbox.ipod you are compiling now. |
| 19:22:28 | linuxstb | Yes - you should think of Rockbox as a single entity. |
| 19:22:31 | virtualball2 | ya i know |
| 19:22:33 | Paprica | linuxstb, what do you think on separate "browse plugins" to categories |
| 19:22:38 | Paprica | ? |
| 19:22:55 | linuxstb | Paprica: I think it's needed, but the problem is translating the categories to different languages. |
| 19:23:08 | linuxstb | So the obvious solution of using subdirectories won't work. |
| 19:23:36 | virtualball2 | wpsbuild notice: No remote LCD size, skipping rockbox_default.rwps |
| 19:23:47 | virtualball2 | ^^is that normal when i type in make zip ? |
| 19:23:49 | linuxstb | Ignore that - it's because ipods don't have a remote. |
| 19:24:00 | virtualball2 | ok thanks |
| 19:24:32 | | Join mikearthur [0] (i=mike@82-41-205-190.cable.ubr11.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 19:24:51 | Paprica | we can separate the plugins folder to "apps/games/screen savers" etc.. and give them name is the .lang file |
| 19:25:15 | safetydan | linuxstb, you don't have to do make zip then unzip |
| 19:25:18 | safetydan | just make install will do |
| 19:25:30 | safetydan | eh |
| 19:25:32 | safetydan | ignore that |
| 19:25:37 | safetydan | thought you were talking about the sim |
| 19:25:52 | * | linuxstb ignores safetydan |
| 19:25:54 | Paprica | safetydan, you cant do make zip on the sim |
| 19:26:19 | Paprica | lol |
| 19:26:21 | Paprica | you can |
| 19:26:21 | Paprica | =] |
| 19:27:13 | | Quit perldiver (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:27:36 | linuxstb | Paprica: The solution would probably be to make the "browse plugins" menu option call another menu, with the translated names "Games", "Screen Savers" etc. Those sub-menus would call the file browser with the name of the plugin subdirectory. |
| 19:28:09 | Paprica | yep |
| 19:28:55 | | Join ender1 [0] (i=ychat@84.52.165.220) |
| 19:28:56 | Paprica | this will be very easy to do, my problem is the makefile file |
| 19:28:56 | Paprica | =\ |
| 19:29:33 | linuxstb | If you changed Rockbox, maybe someone else would look at the makefile stuff. That's assuming no-one would object to such a patch (I wouldn't). |
| 19:29:46 | | Join MarcoPolo [0] (n=MarcoPol@che78-2-82-227-240-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:30:38 | Paul_The_Nerd | I think the plugins are definitely ready for some organizational juju. |
| 19:30:44 | | Quit ender` (Nick collision from services.) |
| 19:30:46 | | Nick ender1 is now known as ender` (i=ychat@84.52.165.220) |
| 19:31:47 | pyro | Does anyone know how the USB charge mode works? It appears to just change the status of usb_state=USB_POWERED in the USB thread. Does hardware automatically start charging it? I can't figure out if hardware controls this somewhere |
| 19:32:55 | * | Bger is with 2 hands up for the Paprica's suggestion |
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| 19:35:29 | Paprica | bger, do you have experience with makefile stuff? |
| 19:35:46 | lodesi | hi |
| 19:36:08 | lodesi | i have done a 'contact' plugin |
| 19:36:23 | lodesi | it's there, if you want to try it: |
| 19:36:24 | lodesi | http://www.rockbox.org/bugs/task/4728 |
| 19:36:35 | | Part Paul_The_Nerd |
| 19:36:45 | lodesi | but don't expect any eyecandy ;) |
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| 19:37:07 | Bger | Paprica hahaha :) |
| 19:37:11 | Bger | ask linuxstb ... |
| 19:37:21 | | Quit mikearthur (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:37:26 | Paprica | its all the work.. |
| 19:37:27 | Paprica | =\ |
| 19:37:36 | Bger | about the makefiles and about my all i know about them.. |
| 19:37:51 | Paprica | haha |
| 19:37:54 | Paprica | =] |
| 19:38:03 | Bger | -my |
| 19:39:09 | linuxstb | Paprica: Thinking about the plugins - it could also be nice to find a way to translate the plugin names. |
| 19:39:51 | Paprica | yeah |
| 19:39:58 | Paprica | i think too |
| 19:40:05 | Bger | linuxstb i think we should wait for the famous l10n v2 |
| 19:40:39 | Paprica | it looks ugly with the small letters |
| 19:40:51 | Bger | lodesi put it on the patch tracker |
| 19:40:57 | Bger | www.rockbox.org/bugs/ |
| 19:41:12 | linuxstb | lodesi: Does your plugin work for all Rockbox targets? |
| 19:41:30 | lodesi | Bger: it's already in the patch tracker :) |
| 19:41:36 | Bger | hahaha |
| 19:41:39 | Bger | me silly |
| 19:42:02 | linuxstb | I did read your comments, and wondered why you have hard-coded the maximum number of contacts. You should be able to detect this at run-time based on the available memory. |
| 19:42:05 | lodesi | works on all target, but the buffer size is limited to the minimum supported by the recorder |
| 19:42:22 | linuxstb | I haven't looked at the code itself though. |
| 19:43:05 | lodesi | i have an array of struct, can't be defined at runtime |
| 19:43:14 | lodesi | (i don't use the audio buffer) |
| 19:43:37 | virtualball2 | hmm i seems like whenever i start up the iPod it says i have an error '-1' abd boots to the Apple OS, known causes? |
| 19:43:54 | | Quit mikearthur_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 19:44:25 | | Join mikearthur [0] (i=mike@82-41-205-190.cable.ubr11.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 19:44:44 | linuxstb | virtualball2: You don't have a rockbox.ipod file on your ipod... |
| 19:45:46 | virtualball2 | ya i do |
| 19:45:56 | virtualball2 | oh wait its in a foldr |
| 19:46:06 | * | virtualball2 is embaressed |
| 19:46:27 | * | lodesi is away: Occupé |
| 19:47:03 | linuxstb | lodesi: You can use the function rb->plugin_get_buffer() which will return a pointer to the remaining plugin buffer, and an integer containing the size of that buffer. Just use that memory for the array of structs. |
| 19:48:41 | paugh | dircache unworkage! i vaguely remember a reason for it not working even tho it's enabled. can anyone help me out with a likely cause/fix ? |
| 19:48:56 | paugh | does it depend on another setting? |
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| 19:52:11 | virtualball2 | linuxstb, i built it and moved everything to the iPod and it doesnt have a doom plugin in it, i dont get what is wrong |
| 19:52:21 | mirak | hi |
| 19:52:34 | linuxstb | Did you download the doom.zip AND apply the patch file? |
| 19:52:56 | mirak | what is the correspondance between the recording gain treeshold of rockbox and iriver record mode ? |
| 19:53:17 | mirak | the rockbox have a lot more grain |
| 19:53:20 | mirak | in gain choosing |
| 19:53:32 | virtualball2 | ya but it wouldnt find the files so when it said which file: i just dragged the files into it |
| 19:53:59 | virtualball2 | should i have put the configure-videoipod.h instead of h300? |
| 19:56:19 | linuxstb | You needed to do three things: 1) Download doom.zip and unzip it into the apps/plugins/doom/ directory; 2) Download the patch file and (in your rockbox directory) type "patch -p0 < doom.diff" (or whatever it is called); 3) Change the PLUGIN_BUFFER_SIZE in firmware/export/config-ipodvideo.h |
| 19:58:22 | virtualball2 | ok i did that and i get one problem |
| 19:58:39 | virtualball2 | plugin.h fails the first 5 hunks |
| 19:59:19 | virtualball2 | is that the problem? |
| 19:59:46 | linuxstb | Did you download "doomnew.diff" from the top of the page, or "doomcvs.diff" from the bottom of the page? It looks like doomcvs.diff is the newest one - you should use that. |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:22 | virtualball2 | Oh Ok i used Doomnew.diff |
| 20:03:30 | linuxstb | Try doing patch -p0 -R < doomnew.diff - to reverse those changes. |
| 20:03:57 | linuxstb | Or it may be safer to just delete that copy of the source and start again. |
| 20:04:29 | | Quit damaki (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:04:35 | virtualball2 | ya |
| 20:05:04 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@ACB1D71F.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:05:53 | virtualball2 | well all the hunks succedded |
| 20:08:22 | | Quit tenzing (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:08:59 | | Join tenzing [0] (n=mat@jullay.net) |
| 20:09:41 | virtualball2 | no it didnt work |
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| 20:17:57 | |Beowulf| | hi - if a TSR plugin is running, does that block other plugins from loading/running? |
| 20:19:04 | | Join Moos [0] (i=DrMoos@m53.net81-66-159.noos.fr) |
| 20:21:27 | Bger | |Beowulf| blocks - no |
| 20:21:48 | Bger | but when you start a new plugin while the TSR one is running |
| 20:22:18 | Bger | rb waits the TSR plugin to exit before really running the new one |
| 20:22:53 | | Quit imphasing ("Lost terminal") |
| 20:23:27 | |Beowulf| | ok, thanks |
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| 20:49:58 | lodesi | done, max contact number now computed at runtime :) |
| 20:52:11 | lodesi | It's limited to 106 contacts on a recorder |
| 20:53:12 | | Quit Hansmaulwurf ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )") |
| 20:53:24 | linuxstb | My next question is whether you can increase that maximum number, or even get rid of the limitation completely? |
| 20:54:06 | Bger | lodesi 106 when using the audio buffer ? |
| 20:54:27 | lodesi | well.. the size of each field(name, phone...) is hardcoded ... |
| 20:54:39 | lodesi | no, only plugin buffer |
| 20:54:58 | Bger | lodesi at least for low-mem targets use the audio buffer |
| 20:55:24 | Bger | or better, use the audio buffer if there's not enough mem in the plugin buff |
| 20:55:39 | Bger | (the last one on all targets) |
| 20:55:59 | | Join Shadowarrior13 [0] (i=Shadowar@ip68-3-160-223.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 20:56:34 | linuxstb | lodesi: You might like to read the Rockbox style guidelines - http://www.rockbox.org/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/docs/CONTRIBUTING |
| 20:56:38 | linuxstb | You seem to break every one :) |
| 20:56:39 | lodesi | mmh.. no problem if the audio buffer is just after the plugin buffer.. otherwise would require much more modifications |
| 20:56:42 | | Quit MarcoPolo (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:57:01 | * | petur thinks about porting tombo to rb... then tosses the idea away: no time :( |
| 20:57:08 | lodesi | linuxstb: :'( |
| 20:57:16 | Bger | petur ? tombo ? what's that ?:) |
| 20:57:18 | lodesi | only checked this one : http://www.rockbox.org/docs/contributing.html |
| 20:57:22 | Shadowarrior13 | Sounds like tomba... |
| 20:57:25 | Shadowarrior13 | I loved that game. |
| 20:57:41 | linuxstb | lodesi: That's the same. |
| 20:57:50 | petur | Bger: http://tombo.sourceforge.jp/En/ |
| 20:58:12 | lodesi | linuxstb: ok, let me reread it then :) |
| 20:58:33 | petur | Bger: nice plain text note organizer, I use it on my PDA all the time |
| 20:58:50 | linuxstb | lodesi: The main problems are saw in your code were: 1) Tabs; 2) C++ style comments - // ; 3) lines longer than 80 chars |
| 20:58:50 | Bger | ah :) |
| 20:58:55 | linuxstb | s/are/I/ |
| 20:58:59 | Bger | seems very interesting |
| 20:59:15 | | Join quobl__ [0] (n=quobl@tor/session/x-b81ccc6486742d0a) |
| 20:59:29 | lodesi | i corrected the tabs in the last file |
| 20:59:36 | petur | Bger: even if it were just to view the notes only... |
| 20:59:51 | lodesi | i'll do the 2 others right now |
| 21:00 |
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| 21:04:59 | * | petur tries to understand the peakmeter code right now and enjoys the comments 'this is proven to be inaccurate...' aaargh |
| 21:05:32 | | Quit quobl_ (Remote closed the connection) |
| 21:05:36 | Bger | :D |
| 21:06:04 | petur | it is proven, people complain about it ;) |
| 21:08:19 | Bger | hehe |
| 21:09:21 | petur | no really, the clip detection is awfull, it hardly detects clipping at all |
| 21:09:42 | linuxstb | Are you talking about playback or recording? |
| 21:10:00 | petur | both I guess, the code is common |
| 21:10:07 | petur | (peakmeter.c) |
| 21:10:26 | linuxstb | software playback has peakmeter code in firmware/pcm_playback.c |
| 21:10:44 | petur | does it? oops |
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| 21:11:52 | petur | but clipdetection is done in peak_meter_peek() I think (peakmeter.c) |
| 21:12:48 | linuxstb | I don't know. |
| 21:12:49 | petur | still figuring out how it all hangs together there... |
| 21:13:13 | petur | will find it, no problem there ;) |
| 21:16:06 | petur | linuxstb: pcm_playback.c has really usefull code :D |
| 21:16:13 | petur | void pcm_calculate_peaks(int *left, int *right) |
| 21:16:26 | petur | { (void)left; (void)right; } |
| 21:17:14 | petur | oh sorry, that's for an unimplemented platform |
| 21:17:32 | linuxstb | :) |
| 21:17:45 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 21:18:19 | Paprica | blah |
| 21:18:25 | Paprica | i need help with the make file |
| 21:18:38 | Paprica | i dont know from where to start |
| 21:18:38 | Paprica | =\ |
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| 21:21:45 | | Quit yeahx () |
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| 21:26:13 | lodesi | can I assume the plugin buffer and the audio buffer are consecutive ? |
| 21:26:24 | linuxstb | No. |
| 21:27:46 | lodesi | ok.. |
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| 21:41:58 | | Join kyp [0] (i=kyp@ip70-162-10-156.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 21:42:02 | kyp | man what a shitty channel |
| 21:42:27 | petur | what would you expect, it's saturday night |
| 21:42:35 | kyp | look, shut up |
| 21:42:51 | petur | only freaks and loosers are at their pc right now... |
| 21:42:58 | petur | :P |
| 21:43:01 | kyp | its 1pm and i just woke up |
| 21:43:06 | | Quit eli_sherer () |
| 21:45:05 | | Part jlo |
| 21:49:25 | | Join MarcoPolo [0] (n=MarcoPol@che78-2-82-227-240-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:50:49 | infamis | kyp, I beat you, I woke up at 2:15pm :p |
| 21:51:06 | kyp | hey shut up |
| 21:51:41 | infamis | go to sleep |
| 21:51:44 | moozooh | hello kyp. |
| 21:51:51 | moozooh | how's life? |
| 21:55:38 | infamis | ah, you know the usual, makin' some swings & tryin' to bring it own home, but you....oh....kyp. |
| 21:57:29 | petur | s/n ratio is getting worse every minute |
| 22:00 |
| 22:01:00 | infamis | maybe you should upgrade to a higher-quality device ;) |
| 22:01:28 | * | petur hugs his H340 |
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| 22:10:17 | | Part qit |
| 22:11:00 | infamis | so how bout that rockbox, 'eh? |
| 22:11:05 | * | infamis looks around |
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| 22:18:55 | | Quit solexx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:19:19 | IcyStorM | Would it be possible to run iBoy on rockbox? |
| 22:19:38 | * | Mikachu points to rockboy |
| 22:19:53 | Bagder | I believe rockboy is a more complete port |
| 22:20:01 | IcyStorM | It is not |
| 22:20:12 | Bagder | because... ? |
| 22:20:14 | IcyStorM | Cuz you cant even use key combinations or touch combinations for buttons |
| 22:20:19 | Bagder | blah |
| 22:20:19 | | Join San [0] (n=test@213-202-154-207.bas503.dsl.esat.net) |
| 22:20:22 | IcyStorM | the iBoy keys are much better |
| 22:20:24 | Bagder | that's just a key issue |
| 22:20:30 | San | iBoy? |
| 22:20:32 | IcyStorM | With the Rockboy you cant play any game |
| 22:20:33 | IcyStorM | yeah |
| 22:20:33 | Bagder | I'm talking about the emulation |
| 22:20:36 | Paul_The_Nerd | IcyStorM: That's not an issue with Rockboy. That's an issue with current limitations in the button driver. |
| 22:21:05 | Paul_The_Nerd | IcyStorM: What doesn't work in Rockboy? |
| 22:22:46 | Paul_The_Nerd | Besides the buttons/pad |
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| 22:23:54 | linuxstb | IcyStorM: What's stopping you installing ipodlinux and running iBoy there until somebody finishes adapting Rockboy for the iPods? |
| 22:24:09 | IcyStorM | http://ipodlinux.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4016&highlight=iboy+controls |
| 22:24:09 | IcyStorM | But why does it work so well with iBoy and linux then? |
| 22:24:09 | | Join _Beowulf_ [0] (n=Beowulf@82-46-57-180.cable.ubr02.trow.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 22:24:09 | IcyStorM | Look at the controls in iBoy and you should understand what I'm talkinb bout |
| 22:24:10 | | Join Lynx [0] (n=lynx@tina-10-4.genetik.uni-koeln.de) |
| 22:24:29 | Paul_The_Nerd | IcyStorM: As I said, the button drivers in Rockbox don't support that sort of function yet. |
| 22:24:44 | Paul_The_Nerd | Well, button handler really. |
| 22:24:48 | Mikachu | my patch would maybe |
| 22:24:52 | linuxstb | IcyStorM: It's not that it can't be done, or we don't know what to do, it's just that nobody has done it yet. |
| 22:24:57 | | Quit kyp (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:25:03 | Paul_The_Nerd | Mikachu: Your patch would actually be exactly that, I believe |
| 22:25:15 | | Join slasherx [0] (n=slasherx@24-247-171-121.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com) |
| 22:25:43 | Bagder | IcyStorM: and do remember that Rockbox and Rockboy is multiplatform |
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| 22:26:16 | Paul_The_Nerd | IcyStorM: Also, didn't you ask the same thing a day or two ago? |
| 22:26:29 | IcyStorM | The problem is |
| 22:26:45 | IcyStorM | I have iPod 5G (video) and they are not supporting it yet.. |
| 22:26:49 | IcyStorM | An I really like rockbox |
| 22:27:09 | IcyStorM | Then Podzilla comes to 5G i will have all 3 firmwares on my iPod |
| 22:27:11 | * | Mikachu has a gba |
| 22:27:18 | Paul_The_Nerd | IcyStorM: Well, if you used Mikachu's patch in the tracker, you could adapt Rockboy to use those controls. Why not give it a shot and submit a patch? |
| 22:27:27 | * | linuxstb has a collection of music to listen to... |
| 22:27:38 | IcyStorM | What patch? |
| 22:27:49 | Paul_The_Nerd | The absolute scrollwheel position one in the tracker. |
| 22:27:50 | Mikachu | IcyStorM: http://www.rockbox.org/bugs/task/4721 |
| 22:28:16 | | Join lodesi_ [0] (n=moi@d01m-195-36-150-19.d4.club-internet.fr) |
| 22:28:32 | lodesi_ | re |
| 22:28:43 | lodesi_ | now my plugin can use the audio buffer |
| 22:28:43 | IcyStorM | hmm |
| 22:28:45 | | Quit perldiver (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:28:49 | lodesi_ | the limitation is of 5652 contacts on the recorder, if someone know that much people :) |
| 22:29:20 | Paul_The_Nerd | Man, I don't even know 64 people that I'd store contacts for. |
| 22:29:21 | safetydan | Speaking of plugin buffers... did we ever figure out if it was okay for the menu system to use the plugin buffer? |
| 22:29:27 | * | petur wonders how and when pcmrec_callback() gets called <−−- tip appreciated |
| 22:29:28 | safetydan | I'm talking about using it for file copying |
| 22:29:35 | linuxstb | The problem is TSR plugins. |
| 22:30:15 | safetydan | ah yes |
| 22:30:29 | safetydan | Is there any way to know how large they are? |
| 22:30:31 | linuxstb | Were you the person who did the file cut/copy/paste patch? |
| 22:30:31 | Mikachu | is there really any tsr plugin in addition to the battery test? |
| 22:31:02 | safetydan | linuxstb, yeah that's me (and still working on it) |
| 22:31:19 | safetydan | recursive directory merge has got me stuck at the moment |
| 22:31:26 | linuxstb | At the very least you should use a 512 byte buffer - the size of one sector. |
| 22:32:03 | linuxstb | I think it should be OK to put that on the stack. |
| 22:32:26 | safetydan | on my local copy it's 512 bytes |
| 22:32:48 | | Quit lodesi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:32:53 | * | petur discovers SYS_TIMEOUT and answers his own question |
| 22:35:57 | | Join doctor [0] (n=doc__@81.198.37.118) |
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| 22:39:25 | | Nick Lynx is now known as Lynx_ (n=lynx@tina-10-4.genetik.uni-koeln.de) |
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| 22:41:00 | amiconn | safetydan: The menu system could use the plugin buffer, but keep in mind that the playlist viewer also uses it |
| 22:41:44 | amiconn | You don't need to know yourself how large a tsr plugin is, plugin_get_buffer() will give you whatever is left |
| 22:42:04 | Mikachu | what to do if nothing available? |
| 22:42:19 | amiconn | Then it's just that - nothing available |
| 22:42:51 | amiconn | Would only happen with a tsr plugin that just fits the buffer |
| 22:43:29 | Mikachu | theoretically a tsr plugin could alloc all the buffer too |
| 22:43:34 | amiconn | Nope |
| 22:43:39 | Mikachu | no? alright then |
| 22:43:51 | amiconn | TSR plugins must not allocate anything dynamically |
| 22:43:51 | safetydan | If it fails, there's always the stack |
| 22:44:12 | amiconn | This would e.g. make them crash when using the playlist viewer |
| 22:44:38 | amiconn | safetydan: I don't know what you are planning to do, but keep in mind that plugins might also use menus |
| 22:45:27 | safetydan | amiconn, implementing file copy basically |
| 22:45:41 | safetydan | trying to find a large buffer to use for copying |
| 22:45:43 | amiconn | Mikachu: There are 2 TSR plugins in CVS: the battery benchmark and alpine_cdc |
| 22:45:55 | amiconn | The latter is archos only |
| 22:46:30 | amiconn | safetydan: I keep thinking that more sophisticated file management could (should?) be a plugin |
| 22:46:46 | safetydan | interesting, how would that work? |
| 22:46:48 | Paul_The_Nerd | safetydan: It seems like it should be okay to terminate playback for that. I mean, it seems there's a decent chance playback could get pretty choppy anyway... |
| 22:46:52 | safetydan | Can a plugin hook the context menu? |
| 22:47:19 | safetydan | Or are you thinking more of a "file exporer" plugin? |
| 22:47:36 | amiconn | Why would you want to 'hook' the context menu? |
| 22:47:56 | safetydan | Because it's a clipboard, so you can cut/copy and paste files |
| 22:48:11 | safetydan | like in explorer |
| 22:48:17 | amiconn | I have to say that I don't like the clipboard approach |
| 22:48:38 | amiconn | Imho it's cumbersome to use |
| 22:48:49 | safetydan | Paul_The_Nerd, true, but I'd like to see how far we can go without stopping playback |
| 22:49:01 | amiconn | (judging from how it feels in the H3x0 stock firmware) |
| 22:49:23 | petur | would it be ok if I replaced the current clip detection (two consecutive MAX samples) with a trigger on just one MAX sample? |
| 22:49:25 | safetydan | for simple manipulation it works well enough |
| 22:49:49 | Paul_The_Nerd | safetydan: A noble endeavor. |
| 22:49:52 | amiconn | My idea would be a context menu entry for copy/move the same way as we have for delete right now |
| 22:49:54 | Bagder | petur: I trust you on that, you're mr recording these days ;-) |
| 22:50:11 | amiconn | Could as well be implemented in the core provided it's not too much code |
| 22:50:26 | petur | the way it is now is unreliable (misses quite some clipping) |
| 22:50:37 | Moos | amiconn: we already have one "create new dir" option, why not copy/paste/move ones? |
| 22:50:38 | | Quit doctor ("Leaving") |
| 22:50:49 | lostlogic | amiconn: seen SoftwareCodecPlayback on the wiki? Is that the kind of doc on how it works you were looking for? :) |
| 22:51:02 | safetydan | amiconn, have you looked at the patch I've done so far? http://www.rockbox.org/bugs/task/3033 |
| 22:51:14 | linuxstb | amiconn: How would you specify the target directory for your copy/move ? |
| 22:51:19 | petur | Bagder: and for recording, I think it's better to be on the sensitive side then to miss a clipped sample |
| 22:51:25 | lostlogic | 4 in a row addressed to amiconn... popular guy. |
| 22:51:29 | Bagder | petur: sounds logical, yes |
| 22:51:35 | petur | ok |
| 22:51:43 | amiconn | You would navigate to the folder/file you want to copy/move, select (context menu)->copy, which would show another explorer view to select the target dir |
| 22:51:54 | amiconn | petur: Just full scale is not clipping |
| 22:52:26 | petur | yes, there's no real detection possible is there? |
| 22:52:44 | petur | one can only guess it ent over the top |
| 22:52:50 | petur | *went |
| 22:53:11 | petur | but two consecutive max samples really misses quite some clipping |
| 22:53:19 | amiconn | I'm not sure whether the UDA has clipping detection, I vaguely remember having read something about it |
| 22:53:37 | petur | I'll check the datasheets |
| 22:53:45 | amiconn | On the archos, checking levels is the only way |
| 22:54:14 | amiconn | It works reliable enough imho. Very slight clipping isn't really noticeable |
| 22:54:39 | | Quit infamis ("food") |
| 22:56:43 | petur | heh... I can clap in my hands and get no clipping detection... and I'm processing all samples atm |
| 23:00 |
| 23:00:36 | petur | no clip detection on the uda (only overflow for output and silence for input |
| 23:00:53 | petur | I'll try something more intelligent like x max samples in s time... and see if it is sensitive enough |
| 23:01:24 | petur | but with level monitoring, it will never be 100% reliable |
| 23:01:51 | | Quit MarcoPolo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:03:35 | petur | I'll keep the old way for playback and the sensitive way for recording |
| 23:04:21 | Paul_The_Nerd | Should it even be bothering with clip detection during playback? Is there some behaviour when it clips? |
| 23:05:10 | petur | you're right... |
| 23:05:17 | amiconn | It should |
| 23:05:31 | petur | why? |
| 23:05:33 | linuxstb | I thought the playback peak meter displayed a clipping indicator. |
| 23:05:38 | amiconn | It will tell you when it's clipping digitally, e.g. if your EQ gains are too high |
| 23:05:47 | amiconn | linuxstb: It does |
| 23:06:09 | petur | damn, you're right.... forgot all about EQ - never use it anyway |
| 23:06:16 | Bagder | I noticed the tracker links from the forum were still the old ones |
| 23:06:35 | Bagder | so I added redirects for them |
| 23:06:52 | | Part safetydan ("Leaving") |
| 23:06:57 | Paul_The_Nerd | The playback peak meter displays a clipping indicator? |
| 23:07:03 | Paul_The_Nerd | What does it look like? |
| 23:07:19 | linuxstb | I think it's just solid vertical lines on the far right side. |
| 23:07:26 | | Join miner49er [0] (n=miner49e@82-32-84-226.cable.ubr01.chap.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 23:07:34 | linuxstb | I saw them a lot when we had bugs in some of the audio codecs. |
| 23:07:38 | Paul_The_Nerd | Ah |
| 23:07:39 | petur | yes, two-pixel wide lines |
| 23:08:28 | amiconn | petur: Not only EQ - perhaps there's a badly replaygained (or even badly encoded) file |
| 23:09:35 | petur | so should I keep the old system for playback? |
| 23:10:01 | miner49er | hi there dudes |
| 23:10:02 | amiconn | I think so. |
| 23:10:24 | miner49er | can I ask a question please? |
| 23:10:47 | petur | if a sample reaches max value, the chance is quite high that another one will clip.... I think |
| 23:11:01 | miner49er | I want to build both for archos and ipod nano. |
| 23:11:13 | petur | unless somebody normalized his audio to 100% |
| 23:11:30 | miner49er | but the guide recommends different versions of GCC, so can I switch, if so how? |
| 23:11:38 | amiconn | The current peakmeter behaviour has been like it is for a long time. The method was developed by kurzhaarrocker, and he tested it a lot |
| 23:11:59 | Bagder | miner49er: you on cygwin or linux? |
| 23:12:06 | miner49er | yunno, switch between versions to build for both? |
| 23:12:07 | Paul_The_Nerd | miner49er: Since you have to build the cross compilers, each version will have its own prefix anyway. As long as you set up the cross compilers as the instructions say, the configure script will handle using the right one |
| 23:12:08 | amiconn | He plays in a band and uses his archos for recording |
| 23:12:10 | miner49er | oh, linux |
| 23:12:26 | Bagder | miner49er: then I suggest you download and install the recommended gcc versions |
| 23:12:43 | miner49er | oh right, ok cheers Paul |
| 23:12:49 | petur | amiconn: but it is unreliable for recording, I tested this after complaints (alright, one complaint) in the forum |
| 23:12:52 | Bagder | miner49er: since the ARM will be better with gcc4 while Archos is better with the gcc 3.3 |
| 23:13:16 | amiconn | In fact archos won't even build with 4.x |
| 23:13:46 | petur | m68k won't build either |
| 23:14:39 | amiconn | petur: If you use every sample, it should be more reliable than on archos |
| 23:15:11 | amiconn | On archos all we can use is the "quasi peak" value from the MAS, which we can read ~400 times per second at best |
| 23:15:34 | petur | ok, then I'll do the sensitive thing only for SWCODEC recording |
| 23:15:36 | amiconn | Clip detection is reliable enough with that... |
| 23:15:56 | amiconn | Hmm. Perhaps it's actually a problem if we check every *single* sample? |
| 23:16:39 | petur | we didn't, and I changed that, thinking the missed clipping detection was caused by it |
| 23:17:10 | amiconn | Yes, but still we're checking single samples |
| 23:17:11 | petur | but it was very lazy, only checking every 4th sample of only the first chunk |
| 23:17:28 | amiconn | My guess is that the mas "quasi peak" is less fine-grained |
| 23:17:48 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 23:17:53 | amiconn | ..and so it will be at max. if there's one max_value sample within a short window |
| 23:18:07 | amiconn | What about the following approach: |
| 23:18:53 | amiconn | Divide the pcm stream into "time slots" of HZ |
| 23:19:09 | amiconn | ..and calculate the maximum across that |
| 23:19:14 | | Quit Shadowarrior13 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:19:31 | amiconn | If two subsequent time slots have a maximum of max_val, we have clipping |
| 23:19:52 | | Quit slasherx () |
| 23:19:55 | | Quit San (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 23:20:29 | petur | hmmmm |
| 23:20:31 | amiconn | Of course we couldf experiment with the time slot length |
| 23:21:33 | amiconn | That's certainly more sensitive than checking just 2 subsequent samples |
| 23:21:51 | amiconn | ...but less sensitive to stray max_value samples |
| 23:22:01 | | Quit lodesi_ ("Leaving") |
| 23:22:21 | petur | but will it detect short clips? I doubt it |
| 23:22:35 | amiconn | It should |
| 23:22:48 | petur | unless you keep the slot very small |
| 23:23:01 | amiconn | The clipping indicator on archos does detect hand clapping as a clip |
| 23:23:33 | petur | I've seen it miss them on my h340 |
| 23:23:57 | | Join wizatcomputer [0] (n=wizatcom@pool-71-254-29-175.clppva.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:24:05 | petur | I don't know... |
| 23:25:11 | amiconn | My (wild) guess is that the MAs quasi peak uses the time resolution of the MP3 short blocks, which would be around 8,7 ms at 44.1kHz |
| 23:25:57 | | Join Shadowarrior13 [0] (i=Shadowar@ip68-3-160-223.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 23:25:57 | petur | maybe I could use the chunks of the dma as blocks |
| 23:26:42 | petur | but clip detection isn't done there but in the peakmeter... bah |
| 23:28:12 | pyro | Are the forums or dev-mailing list better for asking technical development questions ? |
| 23:28:19 | petur | the question is, how bad is it to indicate clipping if one sample reaches maximum... you're recorcing on the limit if that happens anyway |
| 23:29:19 | petur | pyro: you can ask here |
| 23:30:54 | pyro | Well, I'm trying to help look for how to configure the USB Charge Mode on the iriver h3x0 series. |
| 23:30:55 | pyro | LinusN wrote on the forums a while ago he went through all the GPIO pins looking for it with out any luck. I read all the i2c registers and compared before and after changing the iriver settings. No differences (other than obvious ones such as time changing) |
| 23:31:11 | Paul_The_Nerd | petur: I think if any samples reach maximum while recording it's a good idea to indicate clipping, just because the user will know if that's a rare sharp noise, or indicative of the whole process. |
| 23:31:30 | pyro | however Linus wrote that a while ago, and was curious if there had been any updates since January 29th |
| 23:32:17 | Bagder | sounds like a question for Linus |
| 23:32:26 | * | petur points to lostlogic as well |
| 23:32:37 | pyro | yeah - lostlogic chimed in on the forum as well |
| 23:32:58 | Bagder | pyro: but to answer your prev q, I believe you reach more devs on the mailing list, even if quite a few also read the forums |
| 23:33:42 | pyro | I personally think it's kind of annoying having both communication channels - meaning forusm and mailing lists |
| 23:34:04 | Bagder | well, the forums is the second place |
| 23:34:19 | petur | more user oriented.... |
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| 23:35:28 | Paul_The_Nerd | Yeah, forums seem definitely more end-user oriented. |
| 23:35:58 | pyro | that's true |
| 23:40:02 | * | lostlogic know nothing more than what's already been said WRT USB charging control |
| 23:43:14 | petur | wtf.. forget the previous descussion on whether to use two consecutive samples or not |
| 23:44:28 | amiconn | ? |
| 23:44:31 | petur | there's something wrong with the way the value gets compared... |
| 23:44:59 | petur | trying something to confirm this... |
| 23:46:46 | amiconn | Btw, I wonder why you've removed the local variables and use *peak_l and *peak_r directly |
| 23:47:01 | amiconn | At lower -O levels, this might end up way slower... |
| 23:47:31 | petur | by not using registers you mean? |
| 23:47:35 | amiconn | yes |
| 23:47:52 | amiconn | gcc is *sometimes* clever, but often rather stupid... |
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| 23:48:02 | petur | I'm not that asm minded (yet)... sorry... |
| 23:49:32 | lostlogic | amiconn: on coldfire especially, even at -O2 gcc will tend to keep going back to memory for No Good Reason |
| 23:49:47 | lostlogic | seems to be much smarter on other arches for some reason. |
| 23:50:00 | amiconn | Same on SH1 (at least with -O) |
| 23:50:37 | amiconn | Maybe it's smart for x86... |
| 23:51:07 | lostlogic | x86 it'll optimize the world right out :-P |
| 23:52:22 | amiconn | I didn't check. x86 asm looks like gibberish... |
| 23:52:52 | lostlogic | agree |
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