#rockbox 2006-03-09

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#rockbox log for 2006-03-09

00:00:05	tucoz	What do you think of the changes I made to the tables? The booktabs stuff? I think it looks cleaner than the old spreadsheet like tables.
00:01:03	preglow	looks great
00:01:16	preglow	i've never used booktabs before, looked just great for the manuakl
00:01:48	tucoz	Yes, and it's easy to add 'cells' with several lines. That is a pain without booktabs
00:02:01	preglow	indeed
00:02:13	tucoz	\multirow shivers
00:02:20		Quit asraniel_ ("Konversation terminated!")
00:03:10	nls	looks nice
00:03:20	kclaf	hmm an1 got a sec please ? i need help with ipod bootloader code
00:04:03	youngcereal	what is your prob
00:05:03	kclaf	/* Check for a keypress */ i=key_pressed(); if ((i!=BUTTON_MENU) && (i!=BUTTON_PLAY)) { lcd_puts(0, line, "Loading Rockbox...");
00:05:20	kclaf	can i replace taht by
00:05:21	kclaf	if ((i==BUTTON_MENU) \|\| (i==BUTTON_PLAY))
00:05:34	kclaf	to load apple by default
00:05:50		Join DJ_Dooms_Day [0] (n=DJDD@220-245-186-182.static.tpgi.com.au)
00:05:51	kclaf	to make RB load on keypress i mean
00:05:53	youngcereal	if i see yes
00:06:26	youngcereal	make a test than you know ;)
00:06:34		Quit imphasing ("reboot!")
00:07:17	kclaf	indeed :)
00:07:37		Quit Henrico ("BitchX: No windows left!")
00:07:39	tucoz	nls, I am off to bed. Looking forward to committing your changes :)
00:07:44	*	lostlogic develops theories of ipod i2c driver improvement but isn't brave enough to try them out yet
00:08:09	nls	gotta get those pics :(
00:08:32	preglow	lostlogic: did you do some profiling today, or was that meant for the weekend?
00:08:35	youngcereal	tucoz :i do it at the moment
00:08:55	tucoz	youngcereal, what do you do?
00:09:08	lostlogic	preglow: I was meaning to do it last night, but ended up going out drinking instead so maybe tonight :-P
00:09:21	preglow	an altogether wiser choice
00:09:25	youngcereal	write a new i2c and pcf50605/6 code
00:10:22	tucoz	nls, as the manual is very much WIP, we could (for the time being) accept changes that are not really fit for the final product.
00:10:41		Join imphasing [0] (n=imphasin@c-69-250-93-218.hsd1.dc.comcast.net)
00:11:37	tucoz	Just to get things moving forward.
00:11:46	lostlogic	preglow: i2c is still a major part of our problem though, it's so painful to see the audio thread drop each time the clock is read.
00:11:47	tucoz	good night
00:11:56	kclaf	compiling it atm, hope my ipod wont burn :/
00:12:00		Part tucoz ("Leaving")
00:12:22		Quit petur ("here today, gone tomorrow")
00:12:42	lostlogic	anyone running on an ipod mini?
00:13:58	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:14:55	kclaf	im not
00:15:20	preglow	lostlogic: ugh
00:15:24	DrumRBoy320	5h here
00:15:26	preglow	lostlogic: that big a problem, eh
00:15:29	DrumRBoy320	5g*
00:16:46	lostlogic	preglow: yeah, it's ugly −− and I can see things in the driver that the PP5020 obviously supports, but I'm not brave/smart enough to try and implement them
00:17:28	preglow	hmm
00:17:38		Quit nls ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
00:18:07	preglow	my horse for docs
00:18:20	lostlogic	burst reading for instance −− each time we want to read a byte from a device, we say "send device addr, send byte addr, send device addr, read byte" for _each_ byte
00:18:47	preglow	burst reading only works if you can read for consecutive addresses, though, does it support that?
00:19:10		Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (n=Paul_The@cpe-66-68-93-2.austin.res.rr.com)
00:19:19	lostlogic	preglow: it supports it for writing and the IPL folks seem to have it coded for writes.
00:19:23	lostlogic	preglow: so I'm betting it does for reads
00:19:27		Join Febs [0] (n=medifebb@66.28.245.154)
00:19:34	lostlogic	and RTC is a 7 byte sequential read so ...
00:21:10	preglow	nicety
00:21:12	preglow	ahh
00:21:52	preglow	i really need to get my shit together and start some disassembling
00:24:04		Join lods [0] (i=anonym@217-162-236-181.dclient.hispeed.ch)
00:24:14	lostlogic	If my reading of the code is right (probably not) after a write, the i2c is set back to read mode which I'm sure is for a reason, but I'm guessing causes the next access to have to wait for some kind of timeout before it gets to go
00:24:28	lostlogic	which would explain why there wasn't really a problem with i2c until both RTC and battery are enabled
00:25:01	lostlogic	because battery reads every 1/2s and RTC every 1s so once a second they both try to read and one hits a timeout
00:25:04	lostlogic	(this is all just guesses)
00:25:10		Join quobl [0] (n=quobl@tor/session/x-a5022edab9dd3298)
00:26:16	preglow	sounds likely enough, though
00:27:09	lostlogic	I think I'm going to ignore I2C and try profiling today because I don't need the frustration :-P
00:27:26	preglow	haha
00:27:37	preglow	at least that might lead to something i can do something about, so hooray for that
00:27:51	lostlogic	hehe
00:27:55	webguest39	do you have the retailos available for disassembling?
00:27:59	preglow	sure
00:28:10	preglow	messing too much about with hardware i don't know occasionally makes me want to leap off cliffs
00:28:54	webguest39	it certainly does sound like a nightmare
00:32:03	preglow	i bet disassembling retailos is that too, so my future certainly does not look bright
00:33:03	webguest39	oh, no doubt, but at least with that, it's rigidly defined areas of nightmare and not completely unknown
00:33:08		Quit imphasing ("Another test...PLEASE GOD WORK.")
00:33:29	webguest39	or maybe not, I don't actually know anything about it
00:33:31	preglow	adequate point
00:35:08		Quit mikearthur ("Konversation terminated!")
00:37:48	lods	the mp3 decoder is fixed point based on rb firmware?
00:38:42	preglow	what?
00:38:47	preglow	the mp3 decoder is fixed point, yes
00:38:51	preglow	but not based on anything
00:38:53	preglow	it's just libmad
00:39:29		Quit DJ_Dooms_Day ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
00:39:33	Paul_The_Nerd	I think it was "is fixed point based" and then "on rb firmware"
00:39:58	ashridah	yeah, not "is fixed point, based on rb" :)
00:40:12	lods	yeah, i know but not all
00:41:30		Quit Farpenoodle (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:44:15	crashd	just got round to giving rockbox a spin on my new ipod
00:44:18	crashd	good work guys ;)
00:49:49	preglow	ipod 5g?
00:49:54	crashd	yeah
00:50:03	crashd	i returned my h10 that i bricked, and they dont supply iriver hardware anymore
00:50:07	preglow	i wanna see one of those things, the display size arouses me in ways i shouldn't be
00:50:12	crashd	heh
00:50:13	crashd	yeah
00:50:18	crashd	i was slightly aroused by the display
00:50:26	crashd	until my girlfriend reminded me that im not a total nutcase ;\
00:50:51		Join virtualball2 [0] (n=virtualb@ACAB07EF.ipt.aol.com)
00:51:22	preglow	running doom in original resolution and all
00:51:25	preglow	sounds like a hoot
00:51:28	crashd	heh
00:51:42	coob	full screen snes emu would make me wet my pants.
00:51:48	preglow	oh god, yes
00:51:52	crashd	hmmmmm
00:51:54	preglow	continuously
00:52:04	virtualball2	can the iPL original bootloader boot the rockbox.iPod file?
00:52:05	crashd	super mario world, over and over again
00:52:14	coob	with a usb controller :D
00:52:15	preglow	arh, super mario kart!
00:52:18	crashd	haha
00:52:21	crashd	pilotwings!
00:52:27	crashd	that'd at least be controllable on an ipod
00:52:29	preglow	then final fantasy 6 until i grow tired of living
00:52:30	virtualball2	coob: :D that would be amazing!
00:52:39	*	coob stops dreaming
00:52:43	Paul_The_Nerd	Well, technically the snes supported 512x448, it was just rare that it was used
00:52:50	preglow	i get this sudden urge for a case of beer and a snes with super mario kart
00:52:56	crashd	heh
00:53:00	crashd	that's a good night in, if you ask me preglow
00:53:02	virtualball2	lol
00:53:10	preglow	oh, indeed, at least with good company
00:53:14	crashd	yeah
00:53:19	preglow	battle mode > *
00:53:31	crashd	4way battle mode on a projecter is the win
00:53:50	virtualball2	coob, did you help on Front Row? Cuz its weird thatit would be named after an appl product :\
00:53:52	preglow	projectors aren't that expensive anymore...
00:53:56	crashd	naw
00:54:09	crashd	my housemate picked up one on ebay for like 200quid
00:54:14		Part Paul_The_Nerd
00:54:17	preglow	ghah
00:54:20	coob	virtualball2: um what?
00:54:34	virtualball2	are you the Coob from iPod Linux?
00:54:37	preglow	god knows if i'd ever go outside again if i got a projector
00:54:40	coob	yes.
00:54:42	crashd	heh
00:54:47	preglow	probably just for beer, pizza and cigarettes
00:54:50	virtualball2	well on the forum, isn'
00:54:55	preglow	no, let's not speculate on that
00:54:56	crashd	hmm
00:54:57	crashd	cigarettes.
00:55:17	virtualball2	t it said that front row is hotdog, or hotdog is a version of Front Row
00:55:36	crashd	sigh here we go again :P
00:56:19	virtualball2	Well Front Row is an application from Apple, it runs iTubnes and views pictures from a remote on your computer
00:56:35	coob	erm no
00:56:39	BHSPitLappy	virtualball2: no.
00:56:41	coob	hotdog is a gfx compositing engine
00:56:55	coob	it's demo is just an imitation of the front row interface
00:56:58	BHSPitLappy	virtualball2: there's a hotdog demo app that spins around 4 png files
00:57:05	BHSPitLappy	(that are frontrow icons.)
00:57:10	virtualball2	ya i know but i thought thatr on the forum somewhere someone said it was a type of Front Row
00:57:31	crashd	dont believe everything you read on the internet virtualball2 ;)
00:57:34	BHSPitLappy	forum < bathroom wall writings
00:57:46	virtualball2	BHSPitMonkey, that would be the reason why someone would think that it was Front Row, thanks
00:57:49	preglow	jhahaha
00:57:54	virtualball2	hahaha
00:57:57	coob	virtualball2: since when does anyone on the forums know anything
00:58:19	virtualball2	hahaha true
00:58:30	virtualball2	ok enough of me looking stupid (again)/iPL on rockbox forums :P
00:58:45	virtualball2	*IRC chat not forums
00:58:57		Quit webguest39 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:00
01:00:41	DrumRBoy320	is there anything special i must do to do a complete data backup for my ipod?
01:01:00	BHSPitLappy	not really
01:01:06	DrumRBoy320	or just drag and drop everything form my iPod root, to another drive
01:01:08	preglow	just backup yourf iles
01:01:10	BHSPitLappy	it's just a hard disk, basically
01:01:15	DrumRBoy320	yea, good
01:01:24	BHSPitLappy	are you repartitioning or formatting anything?
01:01:32	DrumRBoy320	repartitioning
01:01:38	BHSPitLappy	for iPL or something?
01:01:38	DrumRBoy320	im installing the iPL bootloader
01:01:41	DrumRBoy320	yes
01:01:43	BHSPitLappy	ahh
01:01:45	BHSPitLappy	why?
01:01:50	DrumRBoy320	i want to try it
01:01:50	BHSPitLappy	(just wondering)
01:01:55	preglow	btw, why can't linux boot from fat?
01:02:01		Join earHertz [0] (n=chatzill@c-24-30-242-135.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
01:02:04	BHSPitLappy	preglow: umm, because it can?
01:02:06	DrumRBoy320	and the fact that it supports rockbox also, was the seller
01:02:18	virtualball2	preglow, it can...
01:02:23	BHSPitLappy	DrumRBoy320: the rockbox loader supports linux... that's a seller too.
01:02:25	preglow	BHSPitLappy: then what's with the mandatory repartitioning to ext2 when installing ipl?
01:02:31	DrumRBoy320	whoah
01:02:33	DrumRBoy320	seriously?
01:02:38	DrumRBoy320	without repartitioning?
01:02:38	BHSPitLappy	seriously.
01:02:51	BHSPitLappy	you still need a linux partition for the filesystem itself
01:02:55	BHSPitLappy	but not for the bootloader
01:03:05	crashd	i think what preglow means is, why cant ipl boot off of a fat fs
01:03:09	qwm	public advice: don't trust BHSPitLappy
01:03:18	crashd	and the answer, probably, is that it hasnt been compiled into the kernel
01:03:21	BHSPitLappy	just continue using the rockbox bootloader and have the daily kernel in FAT named linux.bin
01:03:21	preglow	i did say 'linux', not 'bootloader'
01:03:25	crashd	yeah
01:03:27	DrumRBoy320	well... tell ya the truth, i like the graphical bootloader with iPL
01:03:33	DrumRBoy320	unless thats possible...
01:03:33	crashd	im with you preglow, but im spelling it out in big shiny fucking neon letters
01:03:38	coob	crashd: eh nope, linux just doesn't like fat fs's as its root partition
01:03:43	BHSPitLappy	preglow: linux does BOOT from the loader, but the actual filesystem of the OS has to be on a linux partition.
01:03:47	virtualball2	why? BHSPitMonkey helped me a lot, and made fun of me, but eh it nuturalizes :P
01:03:52	crashd	coob: it isnt the best idea, sure, but it can do it
01:03:53	crashd	argh
01:04:00	crashd	i was just answering the questions ;\
01:04:04	BHSPitLappy	virtualball2: learn to spell, imbecile!
01:04:06	BHSPitLappy	;)
01:04:13	virtualball2	hahaha
01:04:14	coob	are you talking about umsdos?
01:04:18	*	preglow hands BHSPitLappy his monocle back
01:04:27	virtualball2	oh im sorry *hahajshahad
01:04:29	*	amiconn also wonders why linux doesn't run from a FAT root fs
01:04:29	BHSPitLappy	thanks, I don't know why that always falls out.
01:04:41	virtualball2	lol
01:04:45	BHSPitLappy	amiconn: because FAT SUCKS, and linux is just too good for it.
01:05:00	amiconn	I mean, what holds it from doing so, at least when permissions aren't important?
01:05:25	preglow	perhaps it can't doesn't understand that init can be run without an exec flag :>
01:05:26	BHSPitLappy	they are, and why not just google the subject
01:05:37		Quit ender` (" Just when you get really good at something, you don't need to do it any more.")
01:05:40	BHSPitLappy	preglow: on a fat partition, everything is considered executable
01:05:59	BHSPitLappy	e.g. running iDoom on iPL from the fat part.
01:06:00	ashridah	if you use umsdos, unix permissions can be emulated on fat, so it shouldn't be impossible to setup
01:06:07	*	preglow shudders
01:06:13	crashd	heh
01:06:13	preglow	umsdos still exists?
01:06:35	ashridah	hell if i know, don't know anyone insane enough to use it :)
01:06:37		Join pmpbreaker [0] (n=5139c61c@labb.contactor.se)
01:06:39	preglow	i remember i used that once when i tried linux out the first time, around five thousand years ago
01:06:45	pmpbreaker	hello
01:06:46	crashd	heh
01:06:53	crashd	umsdos was on the first slackware cd i ever tried
01:06:59	crashd	when i was about 13
01:07:02	preglow	yeah, that'd be what i was doing as well
01:07:08	preglow	very possible around that age
01:07:12	crashd	one of those impossible to setup, totally useless installations
01:07:27	preglow	i remember thinking a multitasking text mode os was the coolest thing ever to hit the earth
01:07:32	crashd	heh
01:07:51	preglow	then promptly went on and didn't use it
01:08:02		Quit muesli__ (Success)
01:08:06		Quit Kohlrabi (Nick collision from services.)
01:08:08	crashd	yeah
01:08:12	crashd	good old days
01:08:14	crashd	; )
01:08:17		Join Kohlrabi [0] (n=Kohlrabi@dslb-082-083-128-084.pools.arcor-ip.net)
01:09:13	preglow	haha
01:09:33	preglow	i didn't even bloody own a computer then
01:09:43	preglow	programming basic, i was
01:09:45	pmpbreaker	for info, the PMP-100 from iriver has been rooted on serial link. I got the cross dev toolchain from cadenux. I have compiled and ran succesfully a "hello world" program. I have successfully compiled and ran the kernel. I have successfully modified the fs image. Now, do you think it is possible to port rockbox to the PMP ? Somebody of your dev team could help ?
01:09:49	preglow	the days can't have been very good
01:10:05	crashd	heh
01:10:12	preglow	pmpbreaker: sure it's possible
01:10:16	crashd	did i hear that the rockbox loader supports ipl out the box?
01:10:18	preglow	pmpbreaker: but doesn't it use a ti dsp core?
01:10:20	crashd	or was that just heresay
01:10:24	preglow	crashd: yeah
01:10:35	pmpbreaker	earHertz: : yes, the DM270 why ?
01:10:37	preglow	crashd: you keep the kernel on your fat32 part
01:10:55	preglow	pmpbreaker: i'm over here
01:11:22	preglow	pmpbreaker: problem with that is: 1. ti are assholes, 2. no compiler
01:11:34	pmpbreaker	preglow yes :) there is a problem on tab managment in the web irc :)
01:11:40	preglow	so there are going to be problems in making it do anything worthwhile
01:12:01	pmpbreaker	preglow : no compiler for what ? the DSP code ?
01:12:14		Join fiftyfour123 [0] (n=chatzill@cpe-66-108-136-179.nyc.res.rr.com)
01:13:16	preglow	pmpbreaker: yeah, how fast is the arm core on it?
01:13:20	BHSPitLappy	preglow: hmm? you work at TI?
01:13:35		Join imphasing [0] (n=imphasin@c-69-250-93-218.hsd1.dc.comcast.net)
01:13:43	preglow	BHSPitLappy: i'm the head asshole
01:13:48	BHSPitLappy	awesome
01:13:48	pmpbreaker	preglow : 80MHz I think... maybe enough for mp3 playing ?
01:13:51	BHSPitLappy	you live in Texas, then?
01:14:12	preglow	no, norway, ti try to install one asshole in every country
01:14:40	preglow	pmpbreaker: that should do, yeah
01:14:51	preglow	pmpbreaker: that's basically more than our ipod port is using
01:15:05	pmpbreaker	preglow : ok
01:15:21	preglow	depends on cache and iram, obviously, but is possible
01:15:37	*	amiconn has a working oscilloscope.rock on his H140 :)
01:15:39	pmpbreaker	preglow : what is iram ?
01:15:44	imphasing	preglow: Norway is populated with assholes then?
01:15:45	preglow	pmpbreaker: fast internal chip ram
01:15:45	imphasing	:)
01:15:53	preglow	imphasing: truly and certainly
01:16:08	imphasing	I want to go there..
01:16:18	imphasing	Anywhere besides the Americas, really.
01:16:19	pmpbreaker	preglow : ok... i don't think there is some on the DM270 (based on kernel config)
01:16:23	preglow	we breed the finest assholes in the world
01:16:26	imphasing	hehehe
01:16:50	preglow	pmpbreaker: i don't think the kernel config deals too much with that
01:17:11	lostlogic	time to make profiling work on ARM, whee!
01:17:35	pmpbreaker	pmpbreaker : ok
01:17:46	preglow	pmpbreaker: now you're just being silly
01:18:46	DrumRBoy320	backing up 40 gigs is a pain
01:19:05	preglow	be glad you can spend some quality time with your data
01:19:20	amiconn	Wee, oscilloscope working on H300 as well :)
01:19:21	DrumRBoy320	lol :)
01:19:21	pmpbreaker	I don't have many time to discuss now. I am in vacation soon. I think I will work a bit around the PMP, learn a bit more about embedded architecture... and I think I or sby else will come back here to discuss about a possible port.
01:19:36	preglow	amiconn: new plugin api functions?
01:19:36	DrumRBoy320	i really need a new h300 battery
01:19:39	pmpbreaker	good bye and thank you :)
01:19:45	preglow	pmpbreaker: you're welcome
01:19:51		Quit pmpbreaker ("CGI:IRC")
01:20:22		Quit ashridah ("Leaving")
01:23:54	amiconn	preglow: no, why?
01:24:35	lostlogic	preglow: your good friend flac overflows iram with profiling :(
01:25:18	preglow	lostlogic: happy happy joy
01:25:21	preglow	lostlogic: with how much?
01:26:53	lostlogic	don't know a good way to tell how much
01:27:09	preglow	hmm, no, me neither
01:27:17	preglow	well
01:27:36	preglow	a quick and good fix would be just making arm.S put its stuff in .text, not icode
01:27:53	preglow	arm code size is probably one of the things i hate the most about it
01:28:14	preglow	i'm pretty sure code density would be decent if just gcc stopped acting the fool
01:28:26		Join qwm_ [0] (n=qwm@h136n2fls32o1010.telia.com)
01:28:37	lostlogic	ahah, GCC's gotta be stupid about _something_ (many things?) on every arch ;)
01:28:39	Febs	I'm tryng to compile the manual. Configure creates the makefile, but when I run make, I get the following error: make:/cygdrive/c/manual/platform: no such file or directory. Any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong?
01:28:54	preglow	lostlogic: it's decent on x86, but there it makes up for it by being buggy
01:29:42	preglow	Febs: what does the manual dir contain? anything?
01:29:46	lostlogic	:) bagh, moving arm.S to text didn't do it... wtf.
01:30:45	preglow	lostlogic: weird... if iram was stuffed before i did my arm.S commit, it should have barfed completely when i did
01:31:17	Febs	There is manual directory at that location. I've copied the manual source from CVS to cvs/rockbox/manual. When I run configure, it asks me for a path, and I put in the correct path.
01:31:55	lostlogic	moving decode_subframe_lpc out of IRAM made enough space
01:32:17	preglow	Febs: i mean, what's in the manual/ dir?
01:32:54	preglow	Febs: wait, you've made a build dir and all, i take it+
01:33:00	Febs	Yes.
01:34:00	Febs	My build directory is cvs/rockbox/h300
01:34:01	preglow	i just tried it today, but when i do make, a manual/ dir is created in the build dir, containing what looks to be a new copy of the root manual/ dir
01:34:29		Quit imphasing ("Changing server")
01:35:17	preglow	does it get that far?
01:35:29	preglow	i don't really know if anyone's tried building the manual with cygwin
01:35:32	preglow	amiconn?
01:35:41	Febs	I did it successfully about a month ago.
01:35:45	preglow	right
01:35:50	amiconn	I did today, it worked
01:36:17	amiconn	preglow: Why did you ask about plugin api fns?
01:36:33	preglow	amiconn: just wondering how you get your hands on the decoded audio data
01:37:06	Febs	I suspect that this is the step my problem starts. When I run ../tools/configure from my build directory, I get the message "This script couldn't find your source code root directory. Please enter the full path to the source code directory here:"
01:37:08	amiconn	The same way as oscillograph does it - rb->pcm_calculate_peaks()
01:37:15	Febs	I don't remember that from last time I did this.
01:37:22	preglow	amiconn: that gets peak data, not audio data, no?
01:37:27	amiconn	yep
01:37:47	preglow	then it's not exactly what i'd call an oscilloscope
01:38:13	preglow	Febs: most probably
01:38:16	amiconn	That's true, however, the same way oscillograph isn't a real oscillograph either
01:38:49	preglow	h1x0 display is almost certainly too slow for an oscilloscope anyway
01:38:56	preglow	is the h3x0 display noticably slow?
01:39:13	amiconn	oscilloscope.rock is basically just oscillograph.rock, just scrolling horizontally (in software) instead of vertically
01:39:39	preglow	the nano display has no lag/trails at all that i can see
01:39:51	amiconn	It has no speed adjustment (yet), but it allows to adjust volume while running
01:40:38	amiconn	I plan to combine both scroll directions into one plugin (in software, so it works on all targets)
01:40:59	amiconn	Now if there was a working user timer on iPod...
01:41:12	preglow	hehe
01:41:18	preglow	ok, i should fix that
01:41:20	amiconn	The H300 lcd isn't slow.
01:41:38	preglow	a user timer shouldn't be too hard
01:42:02	amiconn	The framebuffer access is slow though, and taking that into account, oscilloscope works really well
01:42:12	amiconn	I don't see a problem of it running on iPod.
01:42:32	amiconn	Maybe the 5G will have slight problems because of the huge lcd
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01:43:12	amiconn	Currently I don't use a timer
01:43:19		Quit xmixahlx ("blah blah blah")
01:43:37	preglow	however, i don't know how accurate it'll be. user timer specifies interval in cycles of the base clock, yes?
01:43:57	amiconn	..but fiddle with sleep(), yield() and current_tick to throttle scrolling
01:44:05	amiconn	yes
01:44:13	preglow	one 24mhz cycle is 41 nanosecs, and afaik, ipods timers are 1usec precision
01:44:38	amiconn	If the timer base on iPod is microseconds, we should use a separate define instead
01:45:18	preglow	i use timer1 now in that way, and it works as it should, so unless there's some alternatie way of configuring the timer, it looks like usec is what we've got
01:45:53	amiconn	#ifdef (..ipod..)
01:45:58	preglow	:/
01:46:04	amiconn	#define TIMER_FREQ 1000000
01:46:06	amiconn	#else
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01:46:14	amiconn	#define TIMER_FREQ CPU_FREQ
01:46:16	amiconn	#endif
01:46:20	preglow	yeah, that'd do, i guess
01:46:39	preglow	should do very nicely, as a matter of fact
01:47:02	amiconn	With a user timer it should be possible to port the grayscale lib to <=4g grayscale
01:47:05	preglow	i'll see if i can fit it in tomorrow, shouldn't be a big task at all
01:47:34	preglow	then perhaps i'll try porting backlight fading as well
01:47:40	amiconn	Quite a lot of work though, the lib is currently quite dependent on vertical packed lcd data
01:48:05	amiconn	...and for speed some arm asm will be necessary
01:48:17	preglow	all the better
01:48:34	lostlogic	BAGH, profiling acted like it was profiling, but the result file is nowhere to be found :(
01:49:00	preglow	lostlogic: you created it, raised it, and this is the thanks you get?
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01:50:20	*	preglow likes the colour jpeg viewer
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01:51:05	lostlogic	ooh, I haven't tried the JPG viewer on IPV yet... BIG SCREEN JPGS!
01:51:16	*	preglow envies
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01:52:02	lostlogic	what happens when I remove the iPod_Control directory from the root of the ipod?
01:52:05	lostlogic	it's bothering me.
01:52:19	preglow	lostlogic: nothing big, unless you fancy retailos
01:52:34	lostlogic	haven't booted it except in the car on the way back from the ipod store :-P
01:53:23	preglow	in which case you'll be happy to hear it'll survive the lack of all directories without exploding
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01:55:05	lostlogic	excellent.
01:55:26	preglow	retailos survives it too, it just recreates it
01:55:29	lostlogic	preglow: is there a way to change files in the jpg viewer without zooming all the way out first?
01:55:38	lostlogic	preglow: hopefully disk mode doesn't recreate it?
01:55:45	preglow	lostlogic: select+direction
01:55:50	preglow	disk mode does not, no
01:56:11	lostlogic	yes, jpg viewing is officially cool.
01:56:17	crashd	heh
01:56:26	*	Febs is frustrated.
01:56:36	crashd	Febs: i know a girl in north london who can help you ...
01:56:47	Febs	lol.
01:56:54	preglow	haha
01:57:13	preglow	i have this absurd craving for a 5g now
01:57:15	preglow	it needs to stop
01:57:18	crashd	yes, it dos
01:57:20	crashd	eodewodwe
01:57:23	crashd	cold finger syndrome ;\
01:57:31	crashd	which players do you own preglow ?
01:57:52	preglow	h120 and nano
01:58:04	dpassen1	preglow: i have the same 'craving'
01:58:12		Quit Kohlrabi (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:58:14	Febs	I keep getting the error that /cygdrive/c/manual/platform does not exist. I DO have a /cygwin/cvs/rockbox/manual/platform directory.
01:58:14	crashd	the shop assistant tried to pass me off a nano as my h10 replacement
01:58:16	lostlogic	preglow: just do what I do −− whether you can afford it or not, break your current audio players and you'll have to get a new one.\
01:58:29	preglow	lostlogic: you didn't get a new h3x0?
01:58:48	preglow	crashd: you neutered him on the spot, i take it?
01:59:01	crashd	i politely told him that the nano wouldn't suit my needs, but it was in my eyes
01:59:03	crashd	im sure.
01:59:13	lostlogic	preglow: I got a replacement, broken, fixed it temporarily, broke it again (power port), tried to solder it back on again, melted something, was without a player, again... I have _very_ expensive habits.
01:59:26	preglow	so it seems
01:59:39	preglow	i'd be very annoyed if i broke my h120
01:59:51	lostlogic	preglow: yeah, H120 is a very special player, what with the optical out and all
02:00
02:00:03	preglow	yes, quite
02:00:06	preglow	i likes it
02:01:26	preglow	bejeweled looks so god damned smooth
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02:01:40	dpassen1	i used to feal much better about my 120, until rockbox got ported to the ipod
02:02:20	amiconn	Hmph, haha!
02:02:24	lostlogic	oh... I didnt' follow my own profiling instructions, so ti wasn't actually profiling. duh. one more try.
02:02:25	preglow	me wants to add gourad shading to cube.c...
02:02:35	midkay	gourad?
02:02:36	amiconn	oscilloscope works in the sim, but looks really funny
02:02:55	crashd	where's the metaballs.c
02:02:58	midkay	preglow, ah, cool :)
02:02:58	crashd	that's what i want to know.
02:02:59	amiconn	I wonder whether the peak calculation uses some excessively large blocks in the sim
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02:03:10	midkay	preglow, then do dynamic lighting please. :)
02:03:13	preglow	shadebobs!
02:03:18	preglow	rotozoomer!
02:03:19	*	crashd drools
02:03:21	crashd	stop it
02:03:28	preglow	plenty of oldschool demo effects just waiting to be made
02:03:33	preglow	someone should port 2nd reality
02:03:38	crashd	haha
02:03:40	crashd	dude
02:03:42	amiconn	blah, the build system is dumb! :/
02:03:43	crashd	i havent heard that name in years
02:04:38	preglow	chessbox isn't very clever, is it...
02:07:06	lostlogic	it's much better at the game than I am :(
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02:07:34		Quit herz42 ("Und wech")
02:07:54	preglow	it just did a very foolish opening involving the queen at the second move...
02:09:45	lostlogic	good god, profiling is slow on the 5g.
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02:14:50	DrumRBoy320	profiling?
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02:14:50	DrumRBoy320	forget profiling, try backing up 40 gigs
02:14:50	DrumRBoy320	:)
02:14:50	lostlogic	DrumRBoy320: ... I recently put 20G onto the ipod... didn't take too long :-P
02:14:50	DBUG	Enqueued KICK DrumRBoy320
02:14:50	DrumRBoy320	well, im taking 40 off of it, and putting it onto amost likely slow HD
02:14:50		Quit Kohlrabi (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:14:50	DrumRBoy320	not sure of the exacts but its a 160 WD i got for 50 dollars
02:14:50	***	Alert Mode level 1
02:14:50	DrumRBoy320	so... ye
02:14:50	***	Alert Mode level 2
02:14:50	DrumRBoy320	a
02:14:50	***	Alert Mode level 3
02:14:50	DrumRBoy320	*
02:14:50	***	Alert Mode level 4
02:14:50	DrumRBoy320	160Gb
02:14:50	preglow	lostlogic: ouch, that i2c glitch really does impact performance a bit
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02:15:13	preglow	but i've gotta go sleep
02:15:14	preglow	later
02:15:19	lostlogic	preglow: yes. I'm wondering if some interim fix like having rtc read at current_tick=xxx123 might make a differenct
02:15:22	lostlogic	'night
02:15:29	preglow	hmm, yeah
02:15:40	preglow	but a proper fix would also be nice
02:15:42	preglow	and time consuming...
02:15:43	preglow	but yeah
02:15:44	preglow	night
02:16:47	amiconn	Bah, this sim crashing when it can't cope is annoying
02:24:52	***	Alert Mode OFF
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02:28:54	lostlogic	sonofa. the map files for arm are formatted differently or the map files on my server are different or... something.
02:29:16		Quit Febs ()
02:30:33	lostlogic	different arches have different map file formats. who would have thought.
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02:42:10	BHSPitMonkey	damnit.
02:42:22	BHSPitMonkey	I wish I had a client that logged highlights, with context...
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02:56:01	lostlogic	hmm... wrap safe tick comparison... why? rockbox would have to be operating continuously for ~248 days at HZ=100 to wrap a signed 32 bit long.
02:56:33	amiconn	lostlogic: 8 bit adc doesn't provide better-than-centivolt resolution for a LiIon cells
02:56:36	amiconn	-s
02:57:24	lostlogic	amiconn: it does when it's an 8 bit scaled to 3.0-5.4v
02:57:41	lostlogic	which is one of the available modes in the pcf5060X
02:57:45	amiconn	Hmm, so iPod spreads the range?
02:57:52	lostlogic	we can choose
02:57:52	amiconn	okay
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02:58:05	lostlogic	8 or 10 bit and subtractive or resistive read sampling circuit
02:58:11	lostlogic	to get either full range or higher precision
02:58:19	amiconn	3.0 as starting point is a bit high
02:59:01	lostlogic	ya think? If it's reading < 3.0v we have no chance to spin up the disk, and we're approaching hardware shutoff... I don't see any good reason to read a value lower than that
02:59:03	amiconn	Dunno about iPod, but on iriver the battery can go below 3V with the device still running
02:59:19	lostlogic	hmm
02:59:30	lostlogic	I'm not against revising to 10bit full range on both devices.
03:00
03:00:57	lostlogic	10bits over a 6v range is also better than centivolt precision... and I know some people on iRiver H3x0 have complained about the lack of precision
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03:05:57	midkay	lostlogic, "improve clarity" - huh?
03:06:09	midkay	code clarity?
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03:09:34	BHSPitMonkey	...?
03:09:51	BHSPitMonkey	who here has a 5G iPod?
03:09:54	crashd	i do
03:10:12	BHSPitMonkey	what OS do you use?
03:10:23	crashd	linux and/or xp
03:10:38	BHSPitMonkey	how do you convert your videos?
03:10:56	earHertz	converting videos in a pita
03:10:58	BHSPitMonkey	videora's pissing me off, and I was hoping for a linux'er method
03:11:12	midkay	BHSPitMonkey, videodora is by far the best i've found..
03:11:21	earHertz	only thing I've found is a prorietary winmdows program
03:11:28	BHSPitMonkey	videora has a tendency to work one day, and stop working the next.
03:11:40	crashd	ummmm, ive only converted a handful using avs video converter, or some crap
03:11:45	midkay	BHSPitLappy, you've been using it, what, 2 days?.. you'd know.. :)
03:11:49	earHertz	midkay: when I tried runnign videora, it invoked the .net commandline compiler, which freaked me out
03:11:58	BHSPitMonkey	midkay: what makes you say that?
03:12:05	earHertz	So I killed it
03:12:12	BHSPitMonkey	I converted videos for others' iPods before I got my 5g...
03:12:23	midkay	earHertz, haha.. BHSPitMonkey, ah, i see ;)
03:12:36	BHSPitMonkey	har.
03:12:43	midkay	BHSPitMonkey, well, it doesn't get much better - i've tried about everything.
03:13:00	midkay	if it stops working, why not just reinstall it?
03:14:19	BHSPitMonkey	I did
03:14:37	midkay	and?
03:14:55	BHSPitMonkey	... and if it had solved the problem, I might not be here having this conversation
03:15:02	BHSPitMonkey	I'll go talk to the videolan folks...
03:15:07	crashd	isnt videora just a frontend for avisynth and stuff?
03:15:16	midkay	you say it "has a tendency to crash".. you've only had one crash?
03:15:27	midkay	-crash+stop working.
03:16:30	BHSPitMonkey	I never said it had a tendency to "start" working :/
03:16:40	midkay	<BHSPitMonkey> videora has a tendency to work one day, and stop working the next.
03:16:50	BHSPitMonkey	and my friend said it messed up on his
03:16:54	BHSPitMonkey	midkay: point?
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03:17:07	midkay	BHSPitMonkey, you only tried it once when you implied it's been stopping often.
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03:17:38	BHSPitMonkey	midkay: based on my friend's similar issue...
03:17:50	BHSPitMonkey	I don't have a lot of faith in the software, anyway
03:18:13	midkay	it "messed up on his", interesting.. well, good luck, i've tried apollo video converter, cucusoft video converter, "ipod movie converter", pq dvd converter, winAVI, and the xilisoft suite.
03:18:27	midkay	all were either awfully buggy, awfully ugly and restricting, or both.
03:19:03	midkay	i've found videodora to be great.. but i guess two bug reports are two too many for you.
03:20:33	BHSPitLappy	lol
03:24:39	lostlogic	I'm guessing my ipod battery is not at 11.79v, so I probably did something wrong.
03:25:10	Paul_The_Nerd	Hahaha
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03:28:24	Paul_The_Nerd	lostlogic: The battery level code seems to work fine for nano, except the scale's off (At a full charge it reporst ~90-92%, though 0 seems pretty close to the right spot before it dies)
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03:30:27	lostlogic	Paul_The_Nerd: that's on nano, right?
03:30:51	lostlogic	Paul_The_Nerd: I'm revising per conversation above with amiconn to use a 10bit full range instead of 10 bit compressed
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03:31:53	Paul_The_Nerd	lostlogic: Yeah, that's on Nano, not including any very recent revisions (built sometime about 14 hours ago)
03:32:30	ScoTTie	lostlogic: you asked who had a mini before. ive got one.
03:32:34	ScoTTie	1G
03:32:41	lostlogic	ScoTTie: and rockbox works on it?
03:33:15	lostlogic	alright, 10-bit full range battery on ipod now. one of these days I'll do the same for H3x0
03:33:18	ScoTTie	i added the make support and keypad for it so it should
03:33:29	ScoTTie	but im not sure about keypad on 2g
03:33:48	ScoTTie	im pretty sure 2g's will need a different code path
03:34:29	lostlogic	ScoTTie: ah, thanks! I have a buddy who wants to run it on 2g, I'll see if I can borrow his for a guinnea pig.
03:34:49	ScoTTie	yeah, i think the 2g uses the same code as the 4g's
03:34:59	ScoTTie	so it shouldnt be to hard to get it working
03:35:29	lostlogic	ScoTTie: that's what it looked like.
03:36:05	ScoTTie	if you add support, i was thinking it should probably be done at runtime.
03:36:11	ScoTTie	rather than having 2 builds
03:42:20	lostlogic	ScoTTie: depends what kind of changes it is, if the hardware in teh 2g is just like the ipod4g but with a different LCD, that's much easier to do at build time, I'd say... I'll look at it and see, unless someone beats me to it
03:43:03	ScoTTie	from what i could tell the keypad was the only major difference
03:43:20	lostlogic	ok, cool.
03:43:38	ScoTTie	but then again, i only really looked at the keypad/lcd code in iPL so i might be wrong.
03:43:46	lostlogic	yah
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03:57:23	JdGordy\|uni	hey all
03:57:26	JdGordy\|uni	is dircache broken?
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04:00:37	JdGordy\|uni	no, juust wasnt starting up for some fucked up reason :p
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04:11:38	webguest20	sorry for the TOTAL newbie question. Just installed rockbox for my iriver ihp120 searching the site for the "plug-ins" most interested in a good one to view battery life. I just can't find the .rock files to download
04:13:17	Paul_The_Nerd	webguest20: All official plugins are included with rockbox
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04:14:06	webguest20	oh... heh.. I looked everywhere but the player... heh like I said, a total newbie.
04:14:08	webguest20	thanks
04:14:16	webguest20	(now to explore)
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04:25:44	Kilohurt	what version of GCC do you guys recommend to compile rockbox for the Ipod Nano CPUs ?
04:27:51	Paul_The_Nerd	4.0.x is I believe the current recommended
04:27:58	Kilohurt	ahh okay
04:28:10	Kilohurt	I went with 4.0.2
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05:08:27	BHSPitMonkey	anyone here use VLC? :P
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05:22:30	midkay	me..
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05:28:15	SlaytanicLemmy	Quick IPOD question...I just read that the CPU runs at a constant 75mhz. Is there any reason to believe that using RB extensively will reduce the lifetime of the hardware components (other than more rapidly draining the battery)?
05:29:34	coob	there's only one way to find out!
05:30:36	ScoTTie	it shouldnt, but like coob suggested we dont know :)
05:32:48	midkay	do standard users have the ability to set priorities, does anyone know? i see a few medium level ones that should really be closed (ipod-related, mostly), and i'm wondering if a dev bumped up the priority or if it's just the user messing around.
05:33:07	midkay	on flyspray, that is ^
05:33:29	coob	on our old flyspray (ipl's not rb's) only admins could close
05:33:45	midkay	coob, it's not closing i'm asking about, it's priority.
05:34:08	coob	oh
05:34:12	coob	only if you opened it
05:34:21	coob	opened/created
05:34:25	midkay	that's nuts..
05:34:41	coob	well then, flyspray is open source, fix it...
05:34:53	coob	i don't really like it
05:34:57	coob	trac is the daddy.
05:35:24	midkay	coob, i know nothing about flyspray.. and i wouldn't fix it if i did.. i just think it's pretty stupid, letting the submitter decide how important his suggestion is..
05:35:48	coob	well, admins can change it after
05:35:57	coob	if you're not cool enough to be an admin, thats not flysprays problem!
05:36:12	coob	i think there may be a level between admin and normal user, can't remember
05:36:14	midkay	(1) can the users not change it back? (2) that's not fixing the problem of them raising it in the first place.
05:36:27	midkay	and, i'm in the developer category, so i can close/modify requests.
05:36:41	coob	well, then you should be able to modify the priority..
05:36:49	coob	i've not used flyspray in like a year
05:36:57	midkay	it's the fact that i need to because people think that their "make rockbox prettier" requests are important when some stuff's not even working
05:37:23	Paul_The_Nerd	I dunno. It seems that sometimes there's a valid reason for a user to try to set priority (like if it's a bug that causes harm to the player itself) but in general, it seems like you're putting an awful lot of trust into peoples' hands.
05:37:56	midkay	imo, it's like making commit access public.. let the users delete/change whatever they want, we'll just have to fix it each time..
05:38:12	midkay	not quite as major, but.. :)
05:38:14		Quit quobl (Remote closed the connection)
05:39:17	midkay	if it's something really major they should probably put URGENT in the subject and/or mail the list and/or come on irc.. but i think (hope! :E) that changes are tested a bit before they're checked in :)
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05:40:06	Paul_The_Nerd	I think that Feature Requests should never be able to go above Medium (or even Low), at least
05:40:22	midkay	Paul_The_Nerd, maybe that's how it is - i'm only seeing increased priorities as medium..
05:40:32	Paul_The_Nerd	Hrm
05:40:34	midkay	and i'm surprised that there are so few that have been raised by the user..
05:40:34	Paul_The_Nerd	Dunno
05:40:44	midkay	or perhaps they haven't - that's why i asked
05:41:36	Paul_The_Nerd	I know I've seen a few that have been marked as high priority briefly, then gotten a response of something similar to "That's not a bug, just do this" and been closed, if I recall
05:41:47	midkay	ah, hm.
05:42:18	Paul_The_Nerd	You can close right? Want me to see if as a normal user I can create a high priority thing?
05:42:33	midkay	i can close, sure. you're a normal user? :)
05:42:49	Paul_The_Nerd	Yeah
05:43:06	midkay	wow, my memory sucks :)
05:44:18	Paul_The_Nerd	Alright, go take a look
05:44:44	Paul_The_Nerd	And yeah, I rarely do any actual coding so far.
05:44:49	midkay	HAHA. critical feature request... :)
05:44:55	Paul_The_Nerd	Indeed
05:45:10	Paul_The_Nerd	A critical feature request requesting to be unable to make critical feature requests.
05:45:36	midkay	let's leave it and send the admins a message. :)
05:45:43	midkay	-and+to.
05:46:04	Paul_The_Nerd	At least it gets the point across. :)
05:47:03	midkay	yes :) if only we had ultra-critical-flashing-yellow-and-red-screen-filling-popup priority.. :(
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05:49:57	Paul_The_Nerd	If we had that priority, I would probably never both to visit flyspray and help people with bug reports.
05:50:11	midkay	haha. :)
05:50:44	Paul_The_Nerd	The very first time I saw a popup feature request for a playstation emulator, or something like that, I'd just give up.
05:50:54	Paul_The_Nerd	Honestly, it surprises me how few impossible requests actually seem to show up.
05:50:58	midkay	haha :)
05:51:06	midkay	ah, you weren't here for the tracktheripper days. :)
05:51:16	midkay	"turn the archos into a tea kettle" was a notable one..
05:51:24	Paul_The_Nerd	Hahaha.
05:51:33	Paul_The_Nerd	Yeah, I've only been here since a little bit into the H120 port.
05:51:53	midkay	"make the archos turn voice recordings into text files"
05:52:23	midkay	yeah, hm, i've.. well.. i started a few years ago, then took a couple years off..
05:52:30	Paul_The_Nerd	Aaah
05:52:31	midkay	now that ipod + rockbox = yay..
05:53:15	midkay	"Make The Normal Recorder pick up FM Like the FM recorder" - haha.
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05:54:35	Paul_The_Nerd	I still think that units that have a line in should be able to daisy-chained with some sort of very low-baud networking over the audio lines. :-P
05:54:55	midkay	excellent - file it as critical ;)
05:55:08	Paul_The_Nerd	Hahaha
05:55:27	Paul_The_Nerd	But, can you imagine networked Doom deathmatches on H320s?
05:55:37	midkay	my god..
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05:56:23	Paul_The_Nerd	To me, it's the exact right flavor of madness.
05:56:56	midkay	and 100% plausible!
05:57:52	Paul_The_Nerd	Of course, someone's gonna stumble across this discussion, see only my suggestion, your statement of plausibility, and assume it's in the works, and post something about it over at misticriver.
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05:58:52	midkay	hahahaha :)
05:59:15	midkay	hey, did you hear about the work-in-progress doom 3 port?
05:59:39	midkay	i heard it's running at a solid 10fps or so.. bump+specular+normal maps, stencil shadows and everything..
06:00
06:00:50	Paul_The_Nerd	Actually, on a related note, I want someone insane to realize that Quake1 ran on systems much slower than the H300, and with less RAM, and actually start porting it, just so I can see them slowly descend into insanity trying to get it working.
06:01:02	Paul_The_Nerd	"much slower" in mhz.
06:01:46	midkay	hahaha :)
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06:35:19	BHSPitMonkey	Paul_The_Nerd: you said they're already insane, so what's the point in trying to drive them insane?
06:37:12	midkay	BHSPitMonkey, you're already not funny, so what's the point in continued failed attempts?
06:37:37	midkay	" jk "..
06:40:16	Mikachu	omg dissed
06:41:08	BHSPitMonkey	hmm?
06:41:27	midkay	.. that doesn't make sense?
06:43:33	BHSPitMonkey	did something get caught in my idiot filter?
06:44:04	midkay	ah, that's a good one. almost worth the 7+ minute wait.
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06:52:56	JdGordon	Paul_The_Nerd: you get a mouse working, and ill port quake
06:54:32	BHSPitMonkey	hehe
06:54:46	BHSPitMonkey	there's a smiluated mouse in iPL ;)
06:54:51	BHSPitMonkey	simulated, even
06:55:15	JdGordon	well.. with usbotg it should be possible to get a real mouse working...
07:00
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07:02:00	*	BHSPitMonkey longs for usb on iPods
07:02:37	JdGordon	haha, u just got the ipod and already its not adequate :D ?
07:09:42	nudel	i experienced lots of mid-track gaps yesterday on my 5g ipod... seemed to get worse through the day so i guess it's due to low battery or something
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07:14:42	Paul_The_Nerd	nudel: What format and bitrate is your music, and are you using replaygain/equalizer/crossfeed?
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07:20:31	nudel	MP3 (LAME APS), only using the bass equaliser at the moment, although it may have happened after I started playing around with the 5 band EQ. I think that was off after I played but I'll have a look once it's finished charging.
07:21:13	Paul_The_Nerd	Yeah, MP3 isn't running as fast as it could by a long shot, so moderate to high bitrates + equalizer can easily cause the buffer to drop too low.
07:21:42	nudel	Ah ok. Is that likely to change or would I be best off moving to Ogg Vorbis?
07:22:18	Paul_The_Nerd	Well, I don't think MP3 has been optimized at all for the ARM targets.
07:22:39	Paul_The_Nerd	I mean, on the iRivers, I believe MP3 is more efficient than ogg, but on the iPod, it's currently the other way around as far as I can tell
07:22:48	Paul_The_Nerd	So it's likely to change at some point.
07:22:51	nudel	makes sense
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07:23:02	nudel	if i knew anything about ARM asm i'd help
07:23:49	nudel	it's frustrating to know there's at least one really highly optimized ARM Mp3 library in the world but we can't use it due to cost/licencing/blah
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07:25:03	nudel	i don't know how optimized tremor was on the karma but mp3 got considerably better battery life. the devs said ogg vorbis was inherently more CPU intensive, but it obviously depends on how optimized the decoders are
07:26:35	Paul_The_Nerd	Well, if both are as optimized as they can get, or equally optimized, vorbis will generally be more cpu intensive.
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07:26:57	Paul_The_Nerd	It definitely is on the coldfire iRiver targets.
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07:42:41	webguest50	anyone know if you can still even buy the iriver h100 series players?
07:43:00	coob	ww.ebay.com
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07:59:54	Jungti1234	hi
08:00
08:07:39	midkay	yo
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08:21:12	Bg3r	mo[r\|o]ning
08:22:27	nudel	moo :)
08:23:30	Bg3r	;)
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08:31:13	Jungti1234	hi Bg3r
08:36:43	Bg3r	hi, Jungti1234
08:41:08	nudel	"[Base and treble settings] don't do anything useful, anyways; increasing either of them should increase your volume overall a bit, but the sound remains the same." <−− Is that true? lol, I turned up the bass and noticed a volume increase but I also thought the bass was boosted more than everything else... I must have imagined it. heh
08:42:32	midkay	nudel, that was my post. :)
08:43:15	midkay	nudel, the bass/treble don't do anything related to sound other than seemingly boost the volume.. i asked a while back and got a response to the effect of "not implemented yet".
08:43:22	nudel	shows how much of an audiophile i am that a volume increase fooled me into thinking the bass was boosted ;-]
08:43:33	midkay	nudel, it fooled me too ;)
08:43:59	midkay	until i realized that everything was much quieter with it set back to 0 each time. :) so i compared a few times, then came to ask..
08:44:01	nudel	i assumed they would auotmatically adjust the more complex eq in a simpler way, but hadn't got around to investigating
08:44:23	midkay	nudel, no, it's just direct bass/treble, or at least it was, when it was on the archos models..
08:44:35	midkay	ipods deal with software decoding, so the bass and treble should work differently..
08:44:47	nudel	yeah i've been listening at work with the minimum volume (to avoid annoying everyone else) and it's quite loud at min volume (-58db) with a 5db bass boost
08:45:04	midkay	nudel, right, makes a pretty big difference :)
08:45:48	Paul_The_Nerd	mikday: If I understand correctly, the bass and treble settings are handled somewhere in hardware even on the swcodec targets, while the equalizer is handled in software, which is why they're independent and work slightly differently
08:45:56	amiconn	Bass & treble are a hardware function on iriver too.
08:46:08	amiconn	(of the UDA1380 audio chip)
08:46:15	midkay	amiconn, what about ipods?
08:46:22	amiconn	Dunno whether the wolfson chips can do the same
08:46:37	midkay	hmm..
08:47:38	dwihno	anyone got hands-on experience with core duo laptops yet?
08:48:15	nudel	a friend at work just got a core duo mini and says it's very speedy, if that helps
08:51:55	Jungti1234	http://radiokidz.mizc.com/tt/attach/0309/060309130035361915/329351.jpg
08:51:56	Jungti1234	hmm
08:52:13	Jungti1234	mame? :)
09:00
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09:02:16	Paul_The_Nerd	Yes, MAME on iPodLinux, I've heard.
09:03:15	linuxstb	Bass/treble are implemented on the 4g, but not the 5g. The 4g's DAC has hardware bass/treble, but the 5g's DAC doesn't. The 5g's DAC has a 5-band EQ, but that's not used yet.
09:04:13	Jungti1234	iriver is impossible?
09:04:31	linuxstb	Reading the logs from last night, I would assume that it's the inability to create device nodes that cause Linux to refuse to boot from a FAT partition.
09:06:12	linuxstb	Jungti1234: Mame isn't open source, so we can't port it to Rockbox.
09:06:27	linuxstb	(Open Source as in the Open Source Definition)
09:08:38	LinusN	damn, the x5 remote is kinda nice, it has a 4-gray lcd 128x96
09:08:55	Bg3r	LinusN really? very good :)
09:09:06	Bg3r	but worse main screen ...
09:09:08	dwihno	nudel: core duo mini? you mean a mac?
09:09:15	linuxstb	LinusN: Do you know the framebuffer format yet?
09:09:35	LinusN	i'm wading through the disassembly...
09:10:01	amiconn	gah
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09:10:33	amiconn	Remote & main with non-b&w different format...
09:10:54	LinusN	lovely, isn't it? :-)
09:10:55	tucoz	good morning
09:11:07	nudel	dwihno: yeah, sorry i thought you were talking about the core duo mac laptops... not used to "core duo" being used anywhere else yet :)
09:12:02	dwihno	nudel: heh, nah, I'm thinking about a new laptop... :)
09:12:08	dwihno	(for linux/*bsd-something)
09:13:12	amiconn	LinusN: Not at all.
09:13:21	*	amiconn imagines the gui code for this
09:13:48	amiconn	setting foreground/background will be fun...
09:14:15	amiconn	Are you already able to run code on the X5?
09:14:34	LinusN	only the bootloader
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09:15:36	LinusN	i bought a remote yesterday
09:15:46	LinusN	and today i have the remote button driver working :-)
09:15:56	amiconn	The lcd_remote_* code shouldn't cause difficulties.
09:16:39	amiconn	If it's 4-gray, I expect the format to be equal either to the H1x0 main lcd, or to the greyscale iPod lcd
09:17:45	amiconn	In theory there are some more possibilities which are trivial permutations of these
09:17:50	midkay	i'm off to bed, but i wanted to suggest something first (LinusN?) - linking to the new MajorChanges wiki page on the rockbox.org homepage, perhaps underneath the small "all changes since v2.5" text or something.. it'd probably be a useful page for end-users, i think.
09:18:12	amiconn	(1) The bytes could be oriented differently, i.e. MSB on top / to the lfet
09:18:18	amiconn	*left
09:18:36	LinusN	midkay: nice work
09:19:06	midkay	LinusN, thanks.. any thoughts on the front page idea?
09:19:08	amiconn	(2) The whole framebuffer could be transposed, i.e. running column by column instead of row by row
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09:19:22	LinusN	midkay: will give it some thought
09:19:40	midkay	LinusN, cool :) bed for me, nite
09:20:17	amiconn	LinusN: Try to find out the lcd controller type...
09:20:27	LinusN	amiconn: will do
09:21:30	petur	regarding recording file corruption at low battery: one also needs to seek back to the header to update it and then seek back. I expect this not to be a problem?
09:21:52	LinusN	update the header?
09:21:57	petur	fsync() alone is not enough to save the recording
09:22:04	LinusN	oh
09:22:16	petur	the length of the recording is in the header
09:22:16	LinusN	now that sucks a lot
09:22:37	petur	it seems to work, I'll just test it a bit more
09:23:03	LinusN	that may take some time if the file is big, like a gigabyte or so
09:23:11	amiconn	Fortunately on archos it doesn't matter much. It's just a xing header
09:23:38	LinusN	petur: is there a way to recalculate the header afterwards?
09:23:55	LinusN	i mean , the fsync is only there to make sure we don't lose the file
09:24:00	linuxstb	petur: Are you talking about wav files?
09:24:11	petur	I guess the user could always repair the wav
09:24:12	LinusN	linuxstb: yes he is
09:24:24	petur	there must be tools that can fill in the header...
09:24:26	linuxstb	In which case, yes, it should be trivial to repair it.
09:24:41	LinusN	i think the main goal is to make sure the file is intact
09:24:58	petur	then fsync alone, and let the user repair it...
09:25:13	LinusN	i think so
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09:27:16	linuxstb	IIRC, there are two size-related fields in a wav header - assuming you are just using a standard 44-byte header, one field is always filesize-8, and the other is filesize-44.
09:27:35	petur	yes
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09:28:35	linuxstb	But this is going to get messy with realtime software encoding. I'm not sure how reliable a half-finished wavpack file will be.
09:29:15	petur	then better make some work of the low power event...
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09:39:14	amiconn	LinusN: As you started the target-specific code subdirs: How do you think we could handle the case where some target-specific code is shared between several targets?
09:39:37	amiconn	E.g. lcd driver for archos recv1/recv2/fmrec/Ondios
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09:57:54	asper	hi guys
09:58:02	asper	I need help with MPLAB
09:58:12	asper	I have the ASM code for pic 16f84
09:58:20	asper	how can I compile the .hex file with MPLAB ?
09:58:36	asper	(I am building the REMCLONE and I need to upload the code to the pic)
10:00
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10:13:54	JdGordon	does any1 know how to set the first item shown in a listview in windows?
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10:16:47	asper	jdgordon hi
10:16:52	JdGordon	hi
10:16:53	asper	do you know how to use MBLAB ?
10:16:57	JdGordon	no
10:17:00	asper	:(
10:17:07	asper	I need to compile an asm file
10:17:10	asper	do you kow who can =
10:17:12	asper	?
10:17:22	JdGordon	nup, sorry
10:17:51	*	linuxstb sees talk about an AAC re-implementation on the ffmpeg mailing list....
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10:24:13	linuxstb	JdGordon: Have you looked at the functions in apps/gui/list.h ? gui_list_select_item() seems to do what you want.
10:24:43	linuxstb	(or gui_synclist_select_item)
10:25:00	JdGordon	... i added the in windows part hopeing that would be understood as win32...
10:25:08	JdGordon	:p
10:25:31	*	linuxstb is blind to any non-Rockbox talk...
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10:28:13	nudel	JdGordon: There's LVM_ENSUREVISIBLE to make sure an item is visible somewhere in the list. Not sure off the top of my head about the best way to make sure it's the first item. You might have to work out the number of pixels to scroll (LVM_SCROLL) based on the item height and spacing and the current item position, but I'd be surprised if there isn't a better way.
10:28:50	JdGordon	nudel: ye thanx, thats what im playing with atm.. but not so easy
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10:31:16	nudel	It's rare to work with the Win32 common controls and not walk away disapointed. :) They all seem half-finished and work inconsistently compared to each other. :( Bit of a shame considering the amount of users and money involved with them.
10:31:42	JdGordon	haha.. true
10:32:11	*	petur is doing some MFC work atm and gets the feeling he needs to throw up
10:32:13	JdGordon	so, ill just change a label from "center around" to "jump to"
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10:40:23	safetydan	Right, now someone with more time than me can put the eq system through it's paces in RightMark or something
10:40:25	tucoz	There is a small bug in the vu-meter plugin (at least on the h1xx). When I exit the plugin, the scrollbar is vanished until I do some scrolling.
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10:49:47	safetydan	I wonder if running the sim through valgrind would produce anything useful for Rockbxo
10:49:50	safetydan	Rockbox even
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10:51:38	linuxstb	I thought the main purpose of valgrind was for analysing malloc usage?
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10:53:22	safetydan	linuxstb, yeah now that I'm reading the faq it seems to be heap focused. I thought it might do bounds checking and so forth as well.
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10:55:51	amiconn	safetydan: Already tried oscilloscope?
10:56:48	nudel	does vorbis.com no longer supply a reference vorbistools compile? (oggenc etc.) i want the latest encoder without risking some intel compiler freaky version from rarewares
10:57:09	c0utta	are you listening LinusN ?
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11:00
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11:01:04	Jungti1234	damn..
11:02:16	safetydan	amiconn, very cool, it's almost usable on the h120 once you slow it down enough :)
11:02:19	Jungti1234	English test point is 60... :'(
11:02:59	Jungti1234	Korean test point is 69... and math test point is 29.... :@
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11:04:00	tucoz	Jungti1234, what scale do you use? 0-100?
11:04:32	amiconn	safetydan: You think the default speed (==max) is too fast?
11:04:33	Jungti1234	0-100..
11:04:39		Quit needleboy (Client Quit)
11:04:47	amiconn	I tested on recorder, H140 and H340 myself
11:05:12	JdGordon	windows q again... any1 know how to get a date string using the location specific version thingy? i.e mm/dd/yyyy in america and dd/mm/yyyy in australia (from a SYSTEMTIME ? )
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11:12:50	safetydan	amiconn, I think one notch lower than max seems to be best to start with for me
11:16:56	Jungti1234	JdGordon: here is yyyy.mm.dd or yyyy/mm/dd
11:17:16	JdGordon	ok, thats my problem.. im hoping there is a windows funciton to do it
11:18:26	t0mas	in c?
11:18:31	JdGordon	ye
11:18:43	t0mas	GetLocalTime
11:19:05	Paul_The_Nerd	Hmmm...
11:19:26		Quit safetydan ("Leaving")
11:19:36	Paul_The_Nerd	Well, Oscilloscope keeps a 178kbps ogg from decoding fast enough on iPod.
11:19:43	JdGordon	t0mas: no, i want ot get a string from a time i already have in the local format
11:19:50	t0mas	ah ok
11:20:05	t0mas	hmm... I remember using it once
11:20:10	t0mas	so I'm sure it is somewhere around
11:20:54	markun	linuxstb: did your i2s commit make playback on ipod better?
11:21:04	t0mas	isn't it GetTimeFormat()?
11:21:14	linuxstb	markun: It was an iPod 3G commit - it's untested.
11:21:18	t0mas	ah, got it: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/intl/nls_6at0.asp
11:21:36	linuxstb	markun: But I'm hoping it will actually make audio work on the 3g.
11:21:41	JdGordon	thanx
11:21:59	t0mas	set lpFormat to NULL
11:21:59	markun	linuxstb: does the 3g also have the 'broken' cache?
11:22:04	t0mas	that will get you the local time format
11:22:28	Paul_The_Nerd	markun: I believe 1st through 3rd are the ones with the broken cache, yes.
11:23:02	Paul_The_Nerd	If I recall it was all of the ones using the PP5002
11:23:53	linuxstb	markun: I'm expecting (hoping) that the fact Rockbox makes good use of IRAM will compensate for the slow cache on the PP5002 (1G-3G).
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11:24:46	nudel	the "lancer" asm optimized oggenc build is impressively fast on an athlon64... encoding from FLAC to OV q6 in 5 to 10 seconds per track!
11:25:14	markun	linuxstb: maybe I will buy one of the older ipods then if rockbox plays ogg's just fine
11:25:20	safetydan	Is it just me are the cvs builds stuck?
11:25:59	Kohlrabi	does lancer use AoTuV cahnges?
11:26:18	linuxstb	markun: Why are you thinking of buying an ipod?
11:26:47	nudel	Kohlrabi: it does, seems to be based on the latest AoTuV 4.15 (i thnk that's the number)
11:27:12	markun	linuxstb: my girlfriend wants a portable player that plays Oggs
11:27:26	nudel	i want a girlfriend who knows what Oggs are
11:27:33	Kohlrabi	4.51
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11:27:34	Kohlrabi	;)
11:27:47	markun	linuxstb: she doesn't like ipods because everyone has one though..
11:27:51	Kohlrabi	great, got a link to it? I only found some supposedly asian site
11:28:35	*	amiconn wants to borrow a grayscale iPod for porting the grayscale lib
11:29:23	nudel	http://homepage3.nifty.com/blacksword/ is the site (yeah, asian, just grab the oggenc281_p4_lancer20060303.zip link, or the p3 one if you have Pentium3 or AthlonXP rather than P4/PM/Athlon64)
11:29:25	markun	nudel: wait for a girlfriend that knows nothing about computers, give her one and teach her how to rip CDs in Ogg Vorbis :)
11:29:59	nudel	hot :)
11:30:22	markun	nudel: that's what I did :)
11:30:28	Kohlrabi	it's no 64bit build, right? :)
11:30:40	nudel	not 64bit, no
11:30:43	Kohlrabi	just plain AMD64 32 bit mode, OK :)
11:30:49	Kohlrabi	well
11:30:51	Kohlrabi	Sure
11:30:54	Kohlrabi	When it's p4...
11:30:57	Kohlrabi	dammit ;)
11:31:00	nudel	hehe
11:31:34	Kohlrabi	great find, thanks
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11:42:42	safetydan	Okay, the CVS builds page is definitely broken. Unless changes take an hour to compile now?
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11:43:24	amiconn	t0mas: Hanging ssh process again?
11:43:36	*	t0mas checks
11:43:55	t0mas	127.0.0.1 hanging :X
11:44:48	t0mas	ah, double failure...
11:45:02	t0mas	linuxstb's server failed... and 127.0.0.1 had a hanging ssh
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11:45:51	t0mas	weird
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11:49:44	markun	linuxstb: would you like to test my hsv colour picker hack?
11:51:27	linuxstb	markun: Sure. How does it work?
11:52:03	markun	linuxstb: http://130.89.160.166/rockbox/hsv.patch
11:52:07	linuxstb	t0mas: When did my server fail?
11:52:21	markun	I just replaced the RGB picker and it needs a lot of work
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11:52:41	markun	saving the doesn't work for example (I think)
11:52:44	t0mas	linuxstb: 1200 seconds ago
11:52:54	t0mas	20 minutes
11:53:30	linuxstb	t0mas: Strange. The "build server" is my desktop PC, and I've been using it fine all morning.
11:53:38	t0mas	weird
11:53:42	t0mas	some ssh process was hanging
11:53:59	t0mas	(the cvs update)
11:54:14	t0mas	so 2 things can have happened...
11:54:19	t0mas	1. the connect failed
11:54:24	t0mas	2. the cvs update command hung...
11:54:24	markun	linuxstb: I'll update the patch, it's not the most recent
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11:56:03	markun	linuxstb: updated
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11:59:52	amiconn	t0mas: Could we detect hanging ssh, kill it & start over?
12:00
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12:00:36	t0mas	amiconn: difficult
12:00:49	t0mas	we added an option to it... to set the connect timeout to 15 seconds
12:00:52	t0mas	but that doesn't seem to help
12:01:40	amiconn	safetydan, preglow: Using 'long long' in the eq code isn't exactly a good idea anymore..
12:01:53	amiconn	int64_t
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12:02:46	safetydan	amiconn, that could explain why it didn't work for preglow
12:03:02	safetydan	Bit hard for us 32-bit people to find these issues thought.
12:03:13	safetydan	Do you need to include inttypes.h to have that type available?
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12:05:01	linuxstb	markun: I have no idea what the sliders are doing in your patch.... It's also not picking up the original RGB colour, and the sliders are now wrapping (they didn't before on the ipods)
12:06:23	linuxstb	markun: This would be cool though: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f1/HSV_cone.jpg/300px-HSV_cone.jpg
12:07:03	markun	linuxstb: only the hue slider has to wrap
12:07:20	markun	linuxstb: but I made it wraping for all now. It's only a hack
12:07:38	markun	just to try out the hsv2rgb conversion
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12:08:16	linuxstb	markun: Why should the hue slider wrap? The clickwheel on the ipod makes it hard to select the minimum/maximum values if wrapping is enabled.
12:09:13	markun	linuxstb: because the hue values are specified in degrees. It's a colour circle.
12:10:22	linuxstb	OK. But I don't think it's very useful to use three sliders. Are you planning a more visual representation?
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12:11:07	markun	linuxstb: maybe, this is just a test
12:11:37	markun	linuxstb: but what do you think of the way the colours change with HSV? Do you prefer it over RGB?
12:12:41		Quit asper ()
12:12:52	markun	Because I don't always see which colour I get (because of my little colour vision problem) HSV is easyer for me :)
12:13:21	linuxstb	markun: It's easier in some ways. But I'm not sure how much people will use the colour picker widget, compared to just loading a theme file someone else has created.
12:13:45	markun	I also don't knwo
12:13:53	preglow	lostlogic: so, did you get anything profiled?
12:14:08	markun	But I also don't know how many people will use the arabic support I put so much work in :)
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12:27:36	tucoz	markun, as you have been working with fonts in rockbox, do you know how to get the fonts from x.org to fit in rockbox?
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12:36:48	linuxstb	tucoz: Have you seen rasher's font page? rasher.dk/rockbox/fonts/">http://www.rasher.dk/rockbox/fonts/
12:37:07	tucoz	linuxstb: ah, forgot about that. Thanks
12:38:19	markun	tucoz: after reading your conversation with amiconn about the default fonts I thought about adding some more clR fonts
12:38:32	*	JdGordon wants a webdings font!
12:38:33	markun	Too bad they only cover ascii
12:38:44	tucoz	markun, yes. oh. 7 or 8 bit?
12:39:13	markun	7 or 8 bit what?
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12:39:20	markun	ah, 7 bit
12:40:16	tucoz	ok, but the default rockbox supports äö and so on
12:41:14	markun	hm, let me check again then
12:42:27	markun	tucoz: maybe they were added by hand?
12:42:53	tucoz	that could be true
12:43:30	markun	The fonts in font-schumacher-misc are only 7-bit (except for clR6x12.bdf)
12:44:00	tucoz	markun, hmm. But, that could be used as standard on the larger screens?
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12:47:32	tucoz	It's not that big difference between the default and the clR6x12 font
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12:48:20	tucoz	Well, it does look better than the tiny font.
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12:49:51	markun	tucoz: amiconn said about 11px for H1xx and 14px for H3xx to match the size of the default font on the archos recorder
12:50:57	tucoz	Yes, I know. That is probably because of the dpi. But, another issue is that we have several different aspect ratios as well. So, a totally unified look will be hard to achieve
12:51:57	markun	The recorder doesn't have square pixels, right?
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12:52:14	tucoz	No, I don't think so. it's widescreen as well.
12:52:26	tucoz	or something like that
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12:53:01	markun	Well, the apect ratio of the screen doesn't matter for the looks of the font I think. Only the shape of the pixels.
12:53:19	tucoz	ok, you are probably right
12:53:44	tucoz	But I think amiconn have said some time that it doesn't have square pixels.
12:54:01	linuxstb	I thought it was only the Archos LCD that doesn't have square pixels?
12:54:42	tucoz	isn't that the recorder?
12:55:02	linuxstb	I thought they all had the same LCD (apart from the Player)
12:55:28	tucoz	yes, they have. recorder, recorder v2 fm, ondio have the same lcd's I think
12:56:15	linuxstb	I'm not sure if this is a bug in the clock plugin (i.e. it is still using the Archos pixel shape), but looking at it on my ipod 5g, the clock isn't a perfect circle.
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12:56:49	markun	sounds like a bug
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12:57:07	tucoz	linuxstb: do you have an idea why the scrollbar is gone after I run the vu-meter plugin?
12:57:50	linuxstb	tucoz: No idea.
12:58:06	tucoz	ok
12:58:58	amiconn	Which scrollbar?
12:59:07	tucoz	in the filebrowser
12:59:17	safetydan	tucoz, I can't reproduce the issue that you're seeing, but the scrollbar does do something odd when you exit the vu-meter plugin
12:59:20	tucoz	the inverted one
12:59:30	tucoz	safetydan, ok. I am running h120
12:59:39	safetydan	it doesn't actually show the selected option anymore when you exit the plugin
12:59:42	safetydan	tucoz, so am I
12:59:58	safetydan	it's like it's scrolled up one or two lines when you exit the plugin
12:59:59	tucoz	maybe it's the focus.
13:00
13:01:11	safetydan	This happens with paged scrolling both on and off
13:02:24	safetydan	Oddly it works fine on the simulator
13:02:29	tucoz	it looks like vumeter is selected after I exit the plugin, but vumeter is not visible on screen. The bottom visible item in the plugin list is star
13:02:44	safetydan	tucoz, yes that's what I'm seeing
13:04:05	tucoz	I deleted vumeter.rock, to see if it was because it's last in the list that causes this but sudoku behaves properly on exit.
13:06:46	Nico_P	it does that with xobox (by eli sherer) too
13:07:07	Nico_P	it has always been the case since the plugin was released i think...
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13:10:49	tucoz	star behaves the same
13:13:16	tucoz	and sliding puzzle
13:14:22	tucoz	and snake
13:16:11	tucoz	and snake2
13:16:31	JdGordon	what happenined to the 9sec build times?
13:16:38	JdGordon	and the red and orange in the table!
13:17:47	*	petur whispers 'build server counter'
13:18:23	tucoz	and finally sokoban
13:18:25	JdGordon	ah!
13:21:23	JdGordon	ok silly q.. can the oscialscope plugin be changed to act like the wps??
13:21:54	safetydan	How do you mean "act like the WPS"?
13:22:25	JdGordon	like, show the track info ontop of the osc...
13:22:32	JdGordon	much cooler than the boring winamp look
13:23:49	safetydan	If plugins have access to the currently playing track information I'm sure it could be done
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13:36:30	preglow	ahaha
13:36:37	preglow	do you people actually sit around looking at the wps?
13:36:45	JdGordon	no...
13:36:50		Quit ashridah ("Leaving")
13:36:51	JdGordon	..not all day..
13:36:55	preglow	haha
13:37:16	JdGordon	hi.. my name is jonathan and im a wps-aholic
13:37:16	preglow	i even bloody disable peak meter all the time, to not waste battery on something i'll never see
13:37:17	JdGordon	:p
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13:45:30	petur	there has been this idea to stop wps drawing when backlight is off (for the targets that are useless without backlight of course)... to be implemented?
13:45:58	JdGordon	petur: y? tests have shown it hardly uses any battery
13:46:04	JdGordon	.. on he h300 anyway
13:46:33	petur	oh ok
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13:52:43	ep0ch	switching off the lcd would make more sense
13:53:02	petur	that's done already
13:53:39	ep0ch	yup
13:54:08	petur	it's the drawing of the wps into the internal framebuffer I was talking about
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14:04:51	Paprica	mm
14:05:20	Paprica	what do you think on custom status bar?
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14:11:13	nyonyai_csipcsi	hi just one quetion: can i use rockbox while charging my h300?
14:11:38	petur	AC adapter charging: yes, USB: no
14:12:02	nyonyai_csipcsi	so i just need to connect the adapter when rockbox is on?
14:12:19	petur	yes: first switch it on
14:12:25	nyonyai_csipcsi	ok, thanx:)
14:12:58	petur	if you insert while it's off, it will start the iriver firmware
14:14:19	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:14:23	nyonyai_csipcsi	yes, i've noticed that many times;)...but now i know the truth:), bye
14:14:28		Quit nyonyai_csipcsi (Client Quit)
14:14:40	didj	why does it do that (start the iriver from cold start + AC adapter) ?
14:14:47	*	lods np: Michael Jackson - We Are The World (Demo) ( The Ultimate Collection (Disc 2.4) ) < Pop >
14:14:57	didj	would of through it would be the same reset sequence?
14:15:19	petur	didj: decision made in the current version of the bootloader
14:15:27	didj	ahhh
14:20:38	Bg3r	petur why not charging via USB on h300 ?
14:21:08	petur	I meant that he can't use his h300 while charging over usb
14:21:37	Bg3r	ah ?
14:21:42	Bg3r	why ?
14:21:46	petur	usb mode?
14:21:55	Bg3r	ah, probably u don't know
14:22:03	petur	he?
14:22:14	Bg3r	but if you hold down rec while connecting it to USB, it won't go into USB mode
14:22:24	petur	wow
14:22:37	Bg3r	(in rockbox itself, not in the bootloader, of course)
14:22:51	petur	nice!
14:22:57	Bg3r	yep
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14:29:18	Paprica	mm when the usb is connected, the h3xx will take the power from the computer or from the usb?
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14:29:27	Paprica	lol
14:29:54	Paprica	i mean from the computer or from the battery
14:31:09	Bg3r	afaik it always takes the power from the battery
14:31:26	Paprica	blah
14:37:17	Lynx_	Paprica: i asked linus some time if it was possible to have it take power from usb, he said it would break the usb specs
14:37:55	Paprica	what is specs?
14:38:05	Lynx_	specifications
14:38:26	Paprica	ok
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14:41:16	amiconn	safetydan, tucoz: That scrollbar focus problem has been there since the gui code was introduced
14:41:29	amiconn	I have no idea what causes it though...
14:41:56	amiconn	petur: You can use rockbox with USB charging
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14:42:30	tucoz	amiconn, ok.
14:42:39	tucoz	never noticed it before
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14:49:55	tucoz	hmm, where did that change to the Makefile come from?
14:50:03	tucoz	I certainly didn't make it
14:50:41	amiconn	Zagor: Do you think we could scrap the battery_test plugin?
14:50:54	Zagor	sure, if it's not useful
14:52:21	amiconn	Imho battery_bench is more realistic.
14:52:49	amiconn	I'm asking b/c battery_test is your work.
14:53:02	Zagor	kill it. I have no strong nostalgic bonds to it :-)
14:54:40	tucoz	How do I revert a commit? The Makefile got ruined somehow in my last commit
14:55:01	preglow	you need to commit the old version aain
14:55:21	tucoz	preglow, do you know how to check out the old version?
14:55:27	linuxstb	IIRC, it's something like: cvs diff Makefile -r 1.24 \| patch -R
14:55:44	linuxstb	(where 1.24 is the revision you want a diff against)
14:56:32	linuxstb	It's "cvs diff -r 1.1 Makefile"
14:56:49	tucoz	ok, thanks
14:58:34	amiconn	Which name is better, oscillograph or oscilloscope?
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14:58:53	tucoz	grr, I have to run. Either I fix this later on, or if someone finds the time to fix it I would be grateful
14:59:02	ScoTTie	oscilloscope is the correct term isnt it ?
14:59:22	amiconn	I want to make a combined plugin. One name has to die...
15:00
15:01:26	preglow	scope, i say
15:01:33	preglow	though it's not exactly true
15:05:26	amiconn	Some plugins are missing in PluginIndex...
15:06:27	Paul_The_Nerd	I think what the plugin does is best described as an oscillograph
15:07:01	Paul_The_Nerd	To be an oscilloscope shouldn't it just show a non-scrolling oscillating wave?
15:10:32	preglow	depends
15:10:38	preglow	you can make scopes do that as well
15:12:10	Paul_The_Nerd	Fair enough. My experience with them is fairly limited.
15:13:19	linuxstb	According to a webpage at The University of Dublin. "The oscilloscope is basically a graph-displaying device" :)
15:14:09	Paul_The_Nerd	Hehehe
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15:24:05	markun	Zagor: any idea where he is quoting from? http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2006-03/0057.shtml
15:24:40	Zagor	he's not quoting. he suggest I say that. at least that's how I interpreted it.
15:25:09	markun	It looks more like a quote to me
15:25:40	Zagor	I guess that's the purpose
15:25:48	markun	:)
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15:28:52	markun	Zagor: I read the "what about" as a reminder of something said in the past, but after reading it again it's probably meant as a proposal.
15:29:24	Zagor	i can assure you we have never said anything like that.
15:32:21	markun	how some people make it sound like a heroic battle against the evil rockbox empire.. :)
15:32:44	Zagor	every authority must be challenged, I guess
15:32:55	preglow	battle against the oppressors!
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15:45:20	lostlogic	preglow: got profiling to work, but have to rewrite the parsing code −− map files are different.
15:45:46	lostlogic	the parsing code will actually be easier for arm, but still has to be done −− shouldn't need the object files, just the maps on arm, if I read them correctly.
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15:53:07	lods	stopkeylogger command available for the new firmware?
15:53:20	safetydan	Man that joke just never gets old.
15:53:42	lods	lol
15:55:00	petur	(&%^(&%& NO CARRIER
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16:10:29	ender`	wasn't that supposed to be ATZ+++ ? :)
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16:13:16	webguest80	Hm, no Cassandra. Anyway, her Rockbox Utility has a bug. If you select ihp120, you can chose to install "release" by pressing the up-arrow even though it's disabled and can't be selected by mouse.
16:14:01	webguest80	Quite surprising really, you would've thought that disabling a widget would not allow it to be selected in any way.
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16:16:47	t0mas	any native english speakers around?
16:17:08	t0mas	When my name is "Jan de Boer" (In the Netherlands thats quite common...)
16:17:13	t0mas	what is the word "de" called?
16:17:22	t0mas	it's: firstname, X, lastname...
16:17:29	t0mas	but I have no idea what the word for X is...
16:17:46	Bg3r	surname ? (for father's name)
16:17:53	markun	prefix?
16:17:55	Bg3r	but that's not this afaics
16:17:59	Mikachu	de Boer would be your last name i think
16:18:38	t0mas	in the US that would be your lastname yes
16:18:51	t0mas	but isn't there a word for that part of the name in English?
16:19:04	Mikachu	what is it in dutch?
16:19:08	t0mas	tussenvoegsel
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16:19:30	Mikachu	doesn't ring any bells
16:19:37	markun	t0mas: here they just call it prefix: http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library/article.aspx?article=3770
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16:19:53	t0mas	hm ok
16:20:00	t0mas	that will do for my database table then :)
16:20:01	Mikachu	http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tussenvoegsel -> the English link leads to "Family name affixes"
16:20:24	t0mas	ghehe... column name in a table: "Family name affixes"
16:20:29	t0mas	that isn't a great idea...
16:20:36	t0mas	but prefix is ok...
16:21:08	linuxstb	t0mas: How would that name be written in a passport?
16:21:09	webguest80	It really is an infix though isn't it?
16:21:25	t0mas	linuxstb: Jan de Boer
16:21:33	t0mas	infix?
16:21:39	linuxstb	So you don't have separate surname/forename boxes in any official forms?
16:22:06	webguest80	t0mas: something that's inserted in the middle
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16:22:27	webguest80	Wow, remote detection really messes up when keylock is on.
16:22:32	webguest80	(on h120)
16:23:00	Zagor	t0mas: I'm pretty sure there's no name for it in english. I've never heard anyone separate it from the last name in english.
16:23:16	Zagor	such as "Mr de Boer"
16:23:29	markun	"Werner von Braun"
16:23:37	Zagor	"Mr von Braun"
16:23:42	Mikachu	'The Dutch word "Tussenvoegsel" has no satisfactory equivalent in English, although it is sometimes translated as "infix." It literally means "something put in between."'
16:23:55	webguest80	I win!
16:24:01	Zagor	haha
16:24:02	markun	damn :)
16:24:13	earHertz	Why can't you furriners learn to talk write klike Prezedent Bush do?
16:24:18	markun	What was I thinking.. prefix..
16:24:18	lods	whats up with wernher?
16:24:22	Zagor	try it on 20 native english speakers. I bet a beer nobody will know what it means.
16:24:36	webguest80	markun: well, it's a prefix for the family name, so
16:24:40	webguest80	could be either, really
16:24:54	lods	like van gogh or de gama
16:24:55	*	t0mas goes for the infix
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16:24:58	markun	win-win situation
16:25:03	t0mas	sounds lik the right word from my dictionary
16:25:24	Zagor	t0mas: what are you writing?
16:25:48	t0mas	customer management system
16:25:56	t0mas	needed english database fieldnames
16:26:01	webguest80	oops, the menu on the mailinglist page doesn't have "CVS Builds" (and also still has the sourceforge logo)
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16:26:54	earHertz	t0mas: in English, there's never goig to be an occasion to seperate an infix from the rest of the last name. Not even for alphabetizing.
16:27:19	t0mas	but I have Dutch customers...
16:27:27	t0mas	so I want a setting... what to sort in
16:27:37	Zagor	I bet all english customers will be using it to write middle initials instead :-)
16:27:41	t0mas	sorting "de Boer" on a D is not done here...
16:27:56	t0mas	well.. if they want to.. go ahead :P
16:28:03	lods	van is supposed to be " elected "
16:28:06	earHertz	that'
16:28:07	t0mas	I'll just add a setting to select what to sort on
16:28:15	t0mas	some people sort on customerID anyway :)
16:28:15	earHertz	that's why w Bush will invade you.
16:28:32	Mikachu	you can start sorting on the first capital letter, but maybe that will break some other language
16:28:46	t0mas	we have a quite common name like this: "Nick van den Heuvel"
16:29:01	lods	jean claude van damme
16:29:02	t0mas	Nick is his firstname... "van den" the infix... and "Heuvel" the official lastname
16:29:30	Mikachu	like Frodo of the Shire
16:29:35	t0mas	ghehe
16:29:45	Mikachu	maybe not used so much in english anymore
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16:30:24	lods	i like van der graf generator
16:30:25	*	webguest80 stares at the oscillo(graph\|scope) in bewilderment
16:30:37	t0mas	well.. we have (like the germans) more articles too...
16:30:39	linuxstb	Also not to be confused with (e.g.) the Spanish who have two surnames.
16:30:40	t0mas	not only "the"
16:30:46	t0mas	but "de", "het" and "een"
16:30:51	lods	like hola hola hola cocacola motorola
16:31:41	webguest80	Damn germanic languages
16:31:54	lods	english is part of it
16:31:56	*	t0mas wonders what to do when a spanish guy has 2 the same surnames...
16:32:03	t0mas	Guan Pablo 2Carlos
16:32:08	t0mas	or Guan Pablo Carlos^2
16:32:10	lods	they just call it once
16:32:14		Quit needleboy ()
16:32:18	t0mas	illogical :P
16:32:37	linuxstb	There must be a rule that two people with the same surname can't procreate.
16:32:39	Mikachu	swedish sometimes take both names too
16:32:56	t0mas	yeah, Dutch females have 2 names too sometimes...
16:33:02	t0mas	after mariage...
16:33:05	lods	here to in suckerland
16:33:28	t0mas	like "Sanne de Boer-Haverkamp"
16:33:31	t0mas	to name someone :)
16:34:01	lods	like klingons to
16:34:04	webguest80	We should just assing people a unique identifier and be done with it.
16:34:13	t0mas	like 0x093872348 ?
16:34:15	lods	the best is the hash
16:34:15	webguest80	None of this name-business.
16:34:25	webguest80	t0mas: I like your thinking
16:34:26	t0mas	md5 of you DNA ;)
16:34:30	t0mas	*your
16:34:43	t0mas	that will be nice in pronounciation...
16:35:06	webguest80	You'll most likely only need the last couple of digits in daily life
16:35:23	t0mas	ok... let's get the nerdy talk started:
16:35:35	t0mas	Like "Seven" from "Seven of nine" ? ;)
16:35:52	lods	for any human a unique prime number
16:35:55	t0mas	we should make it birth place dependant...
16:36:13	webguest80	Isn't the "MajorChanges" page what the Rockbox Digest was for?
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16:36:18	t0mas	areacode-parent1-parent2-N
16:36:23	t0mas	and N being the child number :P
16:36:37	t0mas	that will grow like hell...
16:36:39	webguest80	That won't scale
16:36:59	t0mas	but continent-country-number
16:37:00	t0mas	might be nice
16:37:10	t0mas	as you can assume people speak some language from their name :P
16:37:20	webguest80	but it'll make it quite a bit easier to build family-trees
16:37:33	t0mas	and you can isolate people easily... if we ever start a new world war ;)
16:37:46	webguest80	A noble goal.
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16:37:56	lods	yeah, but in world war 4 we don't need no names anymore
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16:38:16	webguest80	Aaaanyway. MajorChanges is Rockbox Digest, isn't it?
16:38:30	webguest80	essentially
16:38:39	webguest80	oops, gotta go
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17:00
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17:10:07	bluebrother^	Hi! I just noticed the the "enter key not working in sim" bug got fixed.
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17:10:31	bluebrother^	I submitted a patch some days ago to the tracker, would be nice if somebody could close this.
17:10:41	bluebrother^	its located here: http://www.rockbox.org/bugs/task/4734
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17:50:33	einhirn	Hello...
17:53:05	einhirn	I have a question about Flyspray: I have attached a patch to a Bug report, it fixes the reported error at least for one platform. Is this enough for the Task to be closed? Or should I put the patch up to the Patch tracker?
17:55:05	safetydan	einhirn, the task will likely be closed if and when the patch is comitted
17:55:13	safetydan	and flyspray is the patch track now as far as I know
17:56:18	Mikachu	tasks can be of type Bugs or Patches though
17:56:20	einhirn	Flyspray is the patch tracker - only that the Patch is now assigned to a Task Type "Bug"
17:56:37	einhirn	s/assigned/attached/
17:57:46	linuxstb	What's the URL?
17:58:02	einhirn	http://www.rockbox.org/bugs/task/2839
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17:59:47	linuxstb	One option would be to turn that task into a patch. But I don't know if that's the "right thing" to do.
18:00
18:00:56	einhirn	And my question was rather absurd, since I would have filed the "Patch" task as a duplicate...
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18:35:23	einhirn	I have this Idea for menus, where I don't have to build a menu by giving its "String" and its function, but just some kind of ID (like a language ID) thats hardlinked to the function that should be called.
18:36:58	einhirn	This would probably be the easiest way to implement the "LRU-Menu" I'm kind of dreaming of, since I'd only have to keep track of the last recently used Menu IDs instead of rather bulky String- and Function Pointers...
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19:27:03	kclaf	i played a bit w/ rockbox today, you guys really rock
19:27:15	kclaf	i felt in love with my ipod ;\
19:27:21	preglow	haha
19:27:28	preglow	yes, it does really make it actually usable
19:27:34	kclaf	clearly
19:27:51	kclaf	i hated the itunesdb stuff
19:28:09	kclaf	plus having more support for different audio formats rocks
19:28:47	kclaf	i hope it will perhaps be able to play some other video files too
19:31:47	BHSPitLappy	I need to figure out how to get doom when I get home
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19:32:49	lostlogic	preglow: want to write the profiling parser for ARM? :-P
19:33:43	lostlogic	preglow: I've got some semi-burst read about 80% working on the I2C driver, reduces the i2c traffic by numbytesperread-1 bytes
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19:35:57	preglow	oooh
19:36:06	preglow	but no, i'm busy with other work right now
19:36:34	lostlogic	I tried more agressive timing approaches and got shotdown at each attempt so I had to go the less fancy but hopefully nice any way route.
19:37:00	preglow	semi-burst, btw?
19:37:45	lostlogic	well the driver in CVS does: select device addr, send byte addr, read byte addr for each byte. Most devices (well certainly the pcf5060X) support send device addr, send byte addr, read read read read read mode.
19:38:23	preglow	yeah
19:38:41	preglow	no idea about how to do real burst reads?
19:39:02	lostlogic	preglow: I've tried a couple of things in hopes of getting burst reads as well to no avail.
19:39:45	lostlogic	do you think a burst read would write 4 bytes per longword address in memory or 1? I was assuming one, because that's how burst write works, and was getting nuthin'
19:40:14	preglow	i'd pretty much assume 1 as well
19:40:24	preglow	anything faster than that sounds unrealistic
19:40:39	lostlogic	yeah, no hits yet... not giving up though.
19:40:55	youngcereal	meby 400kps
19:41:20	lostlogic	youngcereal: the real device speed isn't even something we're dealing with, because the pp5020 has an internal I2C controller that manages that
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19:43:11	youngcereal	not all
19:43:15	youngcereal	its steps
19:43:46	youngcereal	sekend i search and resd
19:44:30	youngcereal	read
19:46:16	youngcereal	no on the pp5020 is nothing about speed
19:46:49	youngcereal	in the year 2ooo is 400kps and 10 bit standart to all i2c
19:47:10	youngcereal	10bit are only use by more then bblalalalo devices
19:47:23	youngcereal	i dont know how many
19:48:09	youngcereal	or 2 i2c controler in one system
19:48:44	youngcereal	but in system is a speed up to 400kps
19:49:22	youngcereal	its like scsi if a device not so fast than not the system step down only for this device
19:49:46	kclaf	sorry to interrupt your poetry a bit but
19:49:55	kclaf	is sm1 working on a itunesdb parser atm ?
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19:50:27	safetydan	kclaf, there's a patch or two floating around that parses the itunesdb
19:50:43	kclaf	oh k, didnt know about it, thanks
19:51:24	safetydan	kclaf, http://www.rockbox.org/bugs/task/4771
19:51:46	youngcereal	lostlogic: do you understand ??
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20:03:08	lostlogic	youngcereal: yes, I understnad about the speed of i2c but that doesn't help or change anything because all we are doing is telling the pp5020 i2c controller "go read a byte from this device" and similar.
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20:04:46	youngcereal	not correkt
20:04:58	youngcereal	where ist the i2c in pp5020
20:05:04	youngcereal	?
20:05:33	youngcereal	or better what is pp5020
20:05:36	youngcereal	?
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20:06:14	lostlogic	pp5020 is the central chip in the ipod 4 and 5g, it has an i2c controller.
20:06:46	lostlogic	so unlike the iRiver devices, we don't manually control the i2c timing of reads and writes, we instead just tell the pp5020 what tor ead and what to write and then read the results from memory addresses
20:07:21	youngcereal	not correct
20:07:33		Quit merbanan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:07:48	youngcereal	pp5020 is a SoC how where a System on Chip
20:08:23	youngcereal	and it is not the i2c with that you talk
20:08:29	youngcereal	ist slave not master
20:08:34	lostlogic	no, you are wrong.
20:08:35	lostlogic	it is the master.
20:09:03	youngcereal	it's where absoludly nonsens
20:09:10	youngcereal	and i have testet ;)
20:10:05	youngcereal	think what make pcf5060x and the pp5020 and than tell me way i have in one system many chip functions double
20:10:45	youngcereal	pp5020 is only the register and the processor
20:10:48	lostlogic	youngcereal: the pcf50605 can operate in either slave or master mode, the pp5020 is the CPU of the system, so it is the master for all i2c devices in the system.
20:10:51	lostlogic	you are wrong again
20:11:09	lostlogic	please do some more research, read more code, understand what you are talking about before you come in here telling me that I am wrong.
20:12:52	youngcereal	im silent but think what is a sin of 2 rtc clocks 2 adc ( where you speek with the pcf) if all in the pp5020
20:12:57	youngcereal	and more
20:13:11	t0mas	:\|
20:13:15	t0mas	what is he talking about?
20:13:52	lostlogic	youngcereal: the adc and rtc are in the pcf5060X, and are read via the I2C bus by the pp5020
20:14:25	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:15:16	youngcereal	is this a good idear if i build a system i never do this
20:15:51	youngcereal	i need more battery more cpu and its more to debug (errors)
20:17:36	lostlogic	You might want to give more credit to the engineers who make these things rather than brashly assuming that they dont' know what they are doing. You are a beginning programmer and they are professional engineers −− they may not be perfect, but they probably don't do things without good reason.
20:19:31	amiconn	lostlogic: Somehow even I doubt that somewhat...
20:19:48	amiconn	s/Somehow/Sometimes/
20:19:59	youngcereal	that is what i say
20:20:33	lostlogic	amiconn: sigh.
20:20:36	amiconn	Not on this particular issue (I don't know much about the iPod, and PP docs aren't freely available),
20:21:27	amiconn	but I can name a few silly design details in many of our targets
20:21:28	youngcereal	think like sherlok holmes
20:21:43	youngcereal	if take all what not is out
20:21:59	youngcereal	only whats there is correkt what ever it is
20:22:06	youngcereal	:)
20:22:33	safetydan	aha! finally reproduced the list issue in the sim
20:22:38	safetydan	it's related to font size
20:23:34	amiconn	Font size, display size and list position, yes, but I was not able to recognise a pattern
20:24:18	youngcereal	lostlogic: why do you give my idear no chance, only i want to help
20:25:12	t0mas	youngcereal: you can ask the ipodlinux people about it...
20:25:13	youngcereal	i m a beginning programmer but i have lernt a lection how not know if you not find a error kill all and look from a other side
20:26:48	youngcereal	i think ipl dont know that its no documentation of the chip
20:27:00	safetydan	Is there no better way to determine the max height of a font then to use getstringsize?
20:27:37	amiconn	no
20:28:04	youngcereal	lostlogic: I dont't fight with you, i will play and learn ;)
20:28:19	lostlogic	youngcereal: I'm open to ideas, but you are asserting as fact thigns which are patently false.
20:28:39	youngcereal	what ?
20:28:43	youngcereal	im interesst
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20:29:21	youngcereal	moment i have a idear
20:29:27	youngcereal	to see logic
20:29:39	amiconn	@ H300 devs: Do we want to happily coexist with the original firmware and fix the year issue, or do we prefer to stay clean and live with the original firmware resetting our year?
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20:30:22	amiconn	My fix would be to offset by 36 years so the leap years would work correctly (unlike in the iriver firmware which offsets by 35 years)
20:30:42	amiconn	That'd mean the year would be one off in original firmware, but would not be reset everytime
20:34:00	youngcereal	lostlogic: look what the pp5020 do in the sheet
20:34:05	linuxstb	I'm not a H300 dev, but that solution sounds completely sensible to me.
20:34:44	youngcereal	lostlogic: and than all other ships
20:34:57	lostlogic	youngcereal: all we have on it is the product brief
20:35:05	safetydan	okay, weirdly the remote works fine... but it's the same logic... hrrm...
20:35:22	youngcereal	what it do
20:35:38	amiconn	safetydan: The remote has a different height...
20:36:21	safetydan	amiconn, I was at least hoping the bug would be consistent though and affect both since it's the same drawing code
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20:37:39	amiconn	safetydan: The sdl sim crash when playback can't cope also happens on linux
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20:37:53	amiconn	Fatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed)
20:37:53	amiconn	* glibc detected * corrupted double-linked list: 0xb7ea6898 ***
20:38:16	tucoz	safetydan, were you able to reproduce it with other plugins than the ones I mentioned earlier today?
20:38:55	amiconn	I just fired up the sim, started playing an mp3, and the ran oscilloscope. When oscilloscope wanted to start scrolling the sim crashed
20:39:23	amiconn	(H300 sim, debian testing, x86)
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20:47:32	amiconn	safetydan: The window-move-around method also makes it crash (w/o any plugin running)
20:47:58	amiconn	Note, I am testing this on VMware, gfx operations like this causing a quite large overhead
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20:49:57	FingerSoup	Quick question here - is there any problem in using pointers to functions in Rockbox?
20:51:21	FingerSoup	ie: I've been coding a connect 4 game, and I want multiple AI codes, so i want to use a pointer to a function in order to change the type of AI being used....
20:52:13	herz42	they are used sometimes already, so it seems to be ok - at least if you check for validity before calling a null pointer
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20:53:56	amiconn	No problems at all with function pointers, they're used quite extensively in some parts of rockbox
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20:54:35	FingerSoup	cool. Not sure about all these small-scale processors and what they're capable of....
20:54:39	FingerSoup	:)
20:55:07	FingerSoup	I'll get back to work now... thx!
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21:04:19	lostlogic	gah, I can't believe that the 'real names' debate is still going on.
21:04:39	Mikachu	what's the name of the thread in case i wanted to read it?
21:04:50	lostlogic	"Signing off" by gl
21:05:09	ender`	real names?
21:05:24	ender`	what about them?
21:05:34	lostlogic	Rockbox requires contributors real names to credit contributions
21:05:41	lostlogic	some people want to submit without giving their real names
21:06:13	ender`	what's that good for?
21:06:41	linuxstb	Anyone have any idea which is more efficient - a 256 case switch statement using inline functions, or a lookup table of function pointers?
21:07:36	ender`	i'd guess pointers, but it probably depends
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21:11:10	Mikachu	in case his patch was really great could someone pick it up and submit it with his own real name?
21:11:23	Mikachu	second his = someone
21:11:55	amiconn	linuxstb: I guess that if the 256 cases are contiguous efficiency will be very similar
21:12:28	amiconn	gcc normally uses lookup tables for large switch statements with not too sparse values
21:12:54	amiconn	The function pointer lookup table is probably easier to write
21:13:19	linuxstb	I'm looking to optimise a z80 emulator, and was wondering if that was an issue - it's currently using function pointers.
21:14:01	amiconn	Optimising rockboy?
21:14:08	linuxstb	No, a Pacman emulator.
21:14:29	amiconn	hmm
21:14:45	lostlogic	z80... graphing calculator for rockbox. whee!
21:14:48	amiconn	Different question: Do you have an idea why voice doesn't work on iPod?
21:15:37	linuxstb	I've never tried it. I've sort-of been waiting for all the general swcodec issues to be fixed before trying to find any ipod-specific problems.
21:15:53	lostlogic	nothing has come to mind that is different for voice between different swcodec machines
21:16:07	lostlogic	it's especially weird that it breaks all audio when it's enabled
21:16:31	lostlogic	I'm still working on getting playback to not be skippy with peakmeter and rtc and battery status enabled before I go back to playback stuff
21:16:33	preglow	endian?
21:16:39	amiconn	Well, iPod is little endian, unlike the other targets
21:17:00	amiconn	The clip position table is stored as big endian
21:17:04	preglow	know, that's why i'm wondering
21:17:07	amiconn	(in the voicefile)
21:17:27	linuxstb	AFAIK, no-one has done any changes to the voice code for the iPods.
21:17:28	preglow	i've got an efficient byteswap routine for ipod here
21:17:32	preglow	four instructions
21:17:47	amiconn	preglow: Place it in system.h ...
21:17:55	preglow	i've done it, i just haven't tested it
21:18:02	preglow	since i don't know of anything that does endian swapping
21:18:04	linuxstb	Try a WAV file...
21:18:09	linuxstb	I mean an AIFF file...
21:18:11	preglow	decent example
21:18:11	preglow	heh
21:18:14	Mikachu	wouldn't it make more sense to build the voice files with little endian for little endian targets?
21:18:24	preglow	Mikachu: yes, one day
21:18:27	amiconn	It would
21:18:41	preglow	it would however make voice files device dependent
21:18:41	amiconn	That'll probably come with l10n v2
21:18:44	preglow	but that'll happen anyway
21:18:49	preglow	when we support speex for voice ui, for example
21:18:52	Mikachu	damn, i thought i was smart
21:18:52	amiconn	preglow: speex?
21:19:01	preglow	i'd just simply love that
21:19:09	preglow	i just wish speex was more fixed point
21:19:44	preglow	i wonder if we shouldn't make a fixed point library
21:19:54	lostlogic	don't see any byte or bitwise operations that would break with different endianness for voice mixing
21:20:08	preglow	voice mixing shouldn't depend on endiannes
21:20:15	linuxstb	What does the #ifdef SIMULATOR do in like 176 of talk.c ?
21:20:21	linuxstb	s/like/line/
21:20:56	linuxstb	Shouldn't that be #ifdef ROCKBOX_LITTLE_ENDIAN ?
21:21:10	Mikachu	it's funny that he doesn't want to use his real name because he doesn't want to get sued, but that that's also your reason for wanting his name
21:24:38	preglow	i'm subpoenaing him as we speak
21:29:45	ep0ch	can't he just make up a real name? ;)
21:30:05	amiconn	linuxstb: Indeed. Same in line 199
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21:33:35	Mikachu	ep0ch: someone suggested that too :)
21:33:53	Mikachu	my name is in the credits file, but there are probably about 500 people in sweden with my name
21:34:17	webguest49	That certainly doesn't hold true for everyone
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21:34:26	Mikachu	i know
21:34:37	markun	I don't think there is anyone with my name
21:34:51	webguest49	http://kerneltrap.org/node/3180 has some explanation from Linus (Torvalds) of why Linux doesn't allow anonymous contributions
21:35:21	lostlogic	pause if flakey as a leper(sp?) colony on ipod.
21:35:38	Mikachu	is?
21:35:41	tucoz	markun, except yourself
21:35:49	Mikachu	leper appears to be the correct spelling
21:35:58	markun	tucoz: ah yes, forgot about me :)
21:36:06	Mikachu	but the disease is called 'leprosy'
21:36:24	ep0ch	lostlogic: pause seems ok to me, its 'stop' that is flakey :)
21:37:53	ep0ch	oh no i take that back, i've just figured out how to stop :)
21:38:00	Mikachu	i haven't
21:38:08	ep0ch	hold pause down for a second or two
21:38:10	Mikachu	other than by changing wps
21:38:16	linuxstb	lostlogic: The problem is lack of buttons. Pause is a short press and release on PLAY/PAUSE, Stop is a long press, and shutdown is a very long press. Which isn't ideal, but I can't think of anything better.
21:38:35	ep0ch	double click pause to stop?
21:38:37	Mikachu	i changed shutdown to select+play after i turned off twice when scrolling around in a jpeg
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21:39:37	imphasing	I heard something about color jpeg support..is this true?
21:39:38	imphasing	:)
21:39:45	*	imphasing is cvs upping now
21:39:46	ep0ch	it would be nice if fbuttons were consistent. E.g. to start the ipod its 'select' to shutdown it should be hold down 'select'?
21:39:46	linuxstb	It's been true for a while.
21:39:59	Mikachu	imphasing: yaeh it works fine
21:40:00	imphasing	linuxstb: Damn, I'm behind the times..
21:40:03	ep0ch	s/fbuttons/buttons
21:40:19	imphasing	Who wrote the jpeg decoding?
21:40:24	linuxstb	imphasing: A lot has changed... We even have battery status on the 5g now thanks to lostlogic.
21:40:29	imphasing	Woo!
21:40:31	imphasing	:)
21:40:35	imphasing	I'll put it on and test it
21:41:10	petur	can somebody confirm me that swcodec playback peakmeters still work ok? Playing a silent wav gives cyclic max peaks here (h300)
21:41:10	Mikachu	linuxstb: it seems to work somewhat on nano too?
21:41:15	lostlogic	Hmm... try pausing immediately after skipping to the beginning of a track
21:41:20	lostlogic	it doesn't pause for me
21:41:23	lostlogic	shows pause in the status, but keeps playing
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21:44:34		Quit stamppot (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:44:34		Quit novimon (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:44:34		Quit dwihno (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:44:34		Quit crash (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:44:34		Quit bluebrother^ (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:44:34		Quit markun (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
21:44:34		Quit Rick (Success)
21:46:38	webguest49	aw, jpeg viewer doesn't work in the sdl sim?
21:47:21		Quit ender` (Connection reset by peer)
21:48:36		Join ender` [0] (i=ychat@84.52.165.220)
21:49:14	webguest49	it is playing mpc, ogg, flac and wav nicely
21:49:28		Quit CoCoLUS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:49:42		Quit robin_ (Remote closed the connection)
21:53:27	webguest49	Fatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed)
21:53:27	webguest49	* glibc detected * corrupted double-linked list: 0xb7ee88b8 ***
21:53:27	webguest49	Aborted
21:53:27	DBUG	Enqueued KICK webguest49
21:53:27	webguest49	Ah
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21:53:31		Quit Spida (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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21:54:51	petur	lostlogic?
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21:55:15	amiconn	me hates it...
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21:58:10	ep0ch	oh i2c update
21:58:31	petur	lostlogic?
21:58:41	lostlogic	petur: weird −− I dno't have any silent waves to test with, looking for one
22:00
22:01:04	lostlogic	made a silent wav to test
22:01:35	lostlogic	ep0ch: let me know if it improves thigns −− I still can't play realtime with peakmeter on my own WPS but it's closer.
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22:06:18	ep0ch	lostlogic: i don't use the peakmeter and i can't see any difference yet
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22:10:13	lostlogic	ep0ch: hehe, difference would just be better performance
22:10:26	lostlogic	petur: yes, I get those periodic peaks on a blank wav file as well. very weird.
22:10:45	petur	phew
22:11:01	petur	have already downloaded a bleeding, reset my settings,...
22:11:13	ep0ch	lostlogic: i was hoping it was going to solve the scrollwheel killing playback while in menus :D
22:11:50	petur	lostlogic: as I don't get that during recording, it must come from the pcm playback
22:11:53	lostlogic	petur: I probably caused it, so I'll look into it.
22:12:09	ep0ch	ROLO working on ipod?
22:12:22	linuxstb	ep0ch: No.
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22:16:43	lostlogic	hmm... something to do with wrapping the pcm buffer? frequency is consistent with that, but why would the peakmeter care about wrapping the pcmbuffer?
22:17:13	lostlogic	and if there is a wrap problem in the buffer code, how have we not seen this on non-silent audio
22:18:03	herz42	make zip
22:18:11	herz42	dumb me
22:18:23	Mikachu	make: *** No rule to make target `zip'. Stop.
22:19:10	herz42	anybody tried to activate the cop for increasing processing power?
22:19:18	petur	I'm fixing more recording peakmeter stuff: peak values get reset by the routine that calculates them, not the one that fetches them, so peak data can get lost
22:19:49		Quit solexx_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:20:46	lostlogic	the peaks code must be reading past the end of the current buffer, which is only a problem when it's wrapping.
22:21:01		Quit _FireFly_ ("Leaving")
22:22:50	linuxstb	herz42: ipodlinux does it, but no-one's used it in Rockbox.
22:23:27	herz42	ok, then I'll look there...
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22:24:09	crashd	how does the nano screen feel?
22:24:15	crashd	im considering changing my 5g ofr a nano
22:24:59	***	Alert Mode OFF
22:25:14	lostlogic	petur: fixed
22:25:20	petur	:)
22:26:03		Quit cs_weasel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:26:15	petur	going to commit now or later?
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22:28:58	lostlogic	petur: committed
22:29:10	ep0ch	so when my ipod says "do not disconnect", and i think, f*ck it and disconnect, does like something bad happen?
22:29:13	lostlogic	was an off by one
22:29:23	lostlogic	ep0ch: as long as it's actually unmounted int he OS, no
22:29:32	lostlogic	ep0ch: if it's still moutned in the OS, you could lose data
22:29:35	ep0ch	thats alright then
22:29:41	petur	tsss.. but why thank me, you fixed it ;)
22:29:53	ep0ch	i thought i was gonna zap the battery or something
22:29:53	Mikachu	ep0ch: if you're on linux you could do eject /dev/sda
22:29:56	lostlogic	petur: because I wouldn't have noticed ... ever... otherwise
22:30:16	ep0ch	Mikachu: yeah i can be very lazy though :)
22:30:17	Mikachu	ep0ch: and in windows i think there's a 'safe eject' button in the tray
22:30:29	Mikachu	ep0ch: eject automatically umounts so it's not more to type
22:30:53	ep0ch	dont think it does on FreeBSD though
22:30:55	petur	I wouldn't either, I was comparing recording peaks with playback peaks of the recording - thought it was a bug in my part :D
22:31:02	Mikachu	ah, dunno about freebsd
22:31:06	ep0ch	:)
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22:33:38	preglow	ep0ch: that's the only way i ever disconnect it
22:33:46	preglow	ep0ch: it never says "lolrofl, ok, disconnect me" in linux
22:34:00	Mikachu	(unless you eject)
22:34:28	ep0ch	yeah eject gets rid of that screen and back into the menus
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22:42:46	*	amiconn now has an oscilloscope with switchable orientation
22:45:00	roolku	petur/lostlogic: I just saw the peak on blank file comments - could this bug be related to the problem: http://www.rockbox.org/bugs/task/4782 - see comment
22:46:14	petur	looks like it...
22:47:37	Bger	nite
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22:54:43	BHSPitMonkey	is rockdoom functional on 5G's?
22:58:37	herz42	lostlogic: does battery display work for you? my battery shows only 1.54V after getting the latest cvs changes
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23:00
23:01:55	lostlogic	herz42: yeah, it works here −− you're a 4g ipod?
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23:02:10	herz42	no, 5g
23:02:14	lostlogic	oh. weird.
23:02:41	crashd	how is the battery polling coming along on the ipods?
23:02:51	lostlogic	herz42: wonder if you had a conflict in the config-ipodvideo file?
23:02:55	lostlogic	hda to change the scale factor?
23:02:58	lostlogic	or did I forget that file maybe
23:03:10	petur	lostlogic: are you sure you fixed the peaks issue, it still looks weird here
23:03:11	herz42	I saw. its 23xx now
23:03:31	lostlogic	herz42: should be 58xx IIRC
23:03:31	safetydan	amiconn, tucoz, I think I've fixed that list issue
23:03:44	herz42	ahh, then you forgot ;)
23:03:52	lostlogic	herz42: ok, I'll get it in a minute
23:03:59	herz42	thanks
23:09:48	amiconn	ugha
23:10:37	amiconn	markun: The text viewer assumes max. 256 glyphs. Not true with unicode support...
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23:13:21	lostlogic	crashd: it's fine −− i2c is slow as a dog though... I've tried all three of the 'reasonable' settings for the battery ADC now, and I think have settled on the 10bit full range one.
23:13:30	lostlogic	herz42: committed
23:13:47		Quit webguest79 (Client Quit)
23:14:15	petur	lostlogic: saw my remark? peakmeter still does weird things :(
23:14:53	crashd	lostlogic: cool, is that in cvs builds then?
23:15:12	petur	when build is completed, yes
23:15:41	lostlogic	petur: define weird
23:15:50	lostlogic	petur: I tested with that change and silence was pleasantly silent
23:15:56	petur	hmmm
23:16:18	petur	it still does the cyclic thing here
23:17:35	lostlogic	hha, my fix did nothing
23:17:58	lostlogic	petur: check this out: shut down the ipod completely, boot it up, and then play silence, the nplay music, then play silence
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23:18:21	petur	because it picks up some garbage
23:18:29	lostlogic	yah
23:18:40	lostlogic	that's some fecked up sheet.
23:18:41	petur	depending on what I do, I get different peak behaviour
23:19:34	lostlogic	define
23:19:43	crashd	preglow: how's the audio codecs on the nano ?
23:19:48	crashd	as in, performance and such
23:20:21	amiconn	Should be the same on all 4g+ iPods afaik
23:20:21	petur	lostlogic: l/r not same amplitude and different amplitude when the cyclic thing happens
23:20:35	crashd	amiconn: thanks
23:20:46	crashd	ive got a 5g but im thinking of scaling back to a nano to pickup some extra cash
23:21:10	preglow	crashd: okish
23:21:13	preglow	crashd: flac's fast, as usual
23:21:19		Quit youngcereal ("... und tschüß")
23:21:23	preglow	crashd: wavpack ok, musepack ok, the rest is on the slower side
23:21:25	lostlogic	petur: hmph
23:21:30	crashd	hmmm
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23:21:36	preglow	all work, though
23:21:40	markun	amiconn: I'll commit a fixed viewer soon
23:21:50	crashd	might have to procure a nano to test on first
23:22:15	lostlogic	preglow: is'nt that exactly the same as 5g though!?
23:22:17	preglow	crashd: that is, they're just as fast as on 5g
23:22:21	crashd	ahh
23:22:21	preglow	no difference there
23:22:21	lostlogic	right.
23:22:26	preglow	nano == 5g, more or less
23:22:27	lostlogic	the hardware is nealry identical
23:22:30	preglow	hardware is almost exactly the same
23:22:32	crashd	ive found mp3 on the 5g to be fairly reasonable
23:22:36	lostlogic	preglow: ::highfive::
23:22:39	preglow	hehe
23:22:41	crashd	havent had any pops, clicks or glitches as yet
23:23:56	coob	yeah, except the nano has a smaller screen, flash instead of a hd, oh and no big fat broadcom chip :)
23:24:23	crashd	heh
23:24:36	crashd	i dont really want a nano, but i dont have any good reason for a 5g
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23:25:19	Spin123	hey ppl
23:25:28	lostlogic	coob: you work on ipl right?
23:25:32	Spin123	can any1 help me with Rockboy??
23:26:00	amiconn	Wheh, speed display now also works in vertical mode.
23:26:03	coob	lostlogic: yes.
23:26:16	amiconn	Only thing left is saving settings :)
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23:27:04	lostlogic	coob: see my i2c driver stuff today? might be worth porting back
23:27:15	coob	nope? whats new?
23:27:28	coob	ah
23:27:30	*	coob reads
23:28:09	lostlogic	I'm sure there's more to be gained but this is at least enough that updating the RTC and battery status regulrarly doesn't EAT audio playback :-P
23:30:12		Quit Spin123 ("-=SysReset 2.53=-")
23:30:41	linuxstb	lostlogic: I'm pretty sure that Linux doesn't read the hardware RTC, apart from at startup via the hwclock command.
23:31:13	lostlogic	linuxstb: yes, but porting the functions needed to calculate a time in seconds from the RTC and dealing with that was out of scope for this week :-P
23:31:31	linuxstb	Yes, I don't even want to think about that...
23:32:09	lostlogic	I tried it for a while −− gave up when it started telling me I needed to get the gnulib localtime_r function in order to do the conversion
23:32:37	amiconn	Well, time calculation up to days is simple (disregarding leap seconds )
23:32:57	amiconn	The problem starts with month lengths and leap years
23:33:34	amiconn	We might need that if we want to implement auto-dst
23:33:52		Quit markun (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
23:34:12	lostlogic	yeah, I didn't want to do it half-assed, and didn't have the patience to import all the right functions, so I gave up... it's definitely doable though.
23:34:40	linuxstb	I haven't checked it myself, but I read somewhere that the Apple firmware in the 5g ipod (and maybe the Nano) store the date in UTC.
23:34:41	lostlogic	offtime.c and mktime.c are what I started with, then comes the localtime_r from gnulib part that sounded daunting
23:34:42	amiconn	I wouldn't import something from linux for this, as it's probably more complicated than what we need
23:34:54	amiconn	I would write the conversion from scratch
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23:35:27	amiconn	We don't need to convert between timezones
23:36:02	lostlogic	amiconn: I think you'd just end up with it being incorrect if you don't take most of what's in glibc, timezone is just an addition of a fixed number of seconds between -123600 and 123600, that's the easy part
23:37:10	amiconn	It's not too difficult to do, even calculating the day-of-week from the current date isn't
23:37:55	amiconn	I wrote a tiny basic program for my old basic programmable calculator long long ago
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23:38:38	lostlogic	amiconn: actually, the part that I couldn't get working properly was the part that goes from RTC time to time in seconds
23:38:43	amiconn	That beast had 10KB of RAM and a 4 bit CPU
23:38:46	lostlogic	the from seconds to RTC time part worked easily
23:39:14		Quit hcl (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:40:55		Quit dpassen1 ()
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23:57:14	amiconn	Hmm, no Linus :/
23:57:47	petur	gl must have found his home address ;)

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