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#rockbox log for 2006-03-23

00:00:07Daishiits just a txt file with a list of mp3 files
00:00:26*Bagder wants a commit
00:00:26Daishioo and the extended version does have song info
00:00:32 Quit TCK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:00:33webguest58no each album has to be appended with.m3u
00:00:35 Quit cky1billion (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:00:35JdGordonmorning guys
00:00:45Daishilinuxstb: thanks btw
00:01:02Zagorwebguest58: no, Daishi is right. just call the file .m3u and you're set
00:01:16 Join cky1billion [0] (
00:01:38Bagderuh, uppercase feature-request
00:01:41MoosBagder: commit the LCD test plugin then :-)
00:01:44Bagderand for a new port
00:01:48webguest58as easy as that, jeez I had done that bought thought that I had to somehow append .m3u to each file. Thanks Zagor
00:01:50linuxstbHas there been any thought about the default Rockbox theme for the 3.0 release?
00:02:11 Quit Aditya (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:02:28webguest63Bagder: good one
00:02:33webguest63so polite
00:03:09 Part webguest58
00:03:30BagderMoos: I don't have that
00:03:30 Join webguest51 [0] (
00:03:31webguest63The feature request.
00:03:38linuxstbBagder: And very specific too. How many mp3 players do Sony make?
00:03:59MoosBagder: just kinding :)
00:04:13webguest51Hello. Is this where i ask how to install rockbox on my 3g ipod? All that's in the zip is this .ipod file, and i don't know what to do with it.
00:04:16Zagordo you think he'll be satisfied if we simply add it to the list?
00:04:56BagderI think he means he has the port completed
00:05:04Zagorwebguest51: be aware the 3g port is not fully functional yet.
00:05:39webguest51how nonfunctional is it? My ipod's firmware is seriously screwed up... if it works at all, it's a step up
00:05:46*preglow raises his favourite pet peeve in the wiki
00:06:37Zagorwebguest51: as far as I remember, most things work *except* the actual audio output.
00:07:00webguest51oh. hmm. audio output is an important feature, to me.
00:07:07webguest51thanks for your help ^_^
00:07:09Zagorhehe, really?
00:07:19Bagdernah audio is overrated in music players ;-)
00:07:35webguest63Audio is implemented, but untested, afaik
00:07:45webguest63So it *might* not work, noone really knows
00:07:50 Quit Xerion (" ")
00:07:53Galoisjust watch the spectrograph and _feel_ the music
00:08:20*linuxstb points out that it's possible that audio works on the 3g - no-one's tested it.
00:08:23cs_weaselor play tetrox
00:08:28webguest51oh, wait... just found the ipodinstall page, and learned that it's for win-formatted ipods only
00:08:36webguest51i don't even think my mac can format fat32
00:08:50webguest51i guess i'll come back in another few versions
00:09:11webguest63Still requires the ipod to be fat32
00:09:19Zagorheh, right. ignore me :-)
00:09:22webguest63Which is unlikely to change anytime soon
00:09:34linuxstbwebguest51: It will be a long wait for HFS support - unless someone new comes along with a desire to spend a few months coding and debugging it.
00:10:22Zagorhowever the page includes a description how to convert an ipod from hfs to fat32
00:10:51webguest63Good point
00:11:09linuxstbYes, but those instructions rely on donated partition tables - there isn't one for a 3G.
00:11:45Zagordarn, are you guys going to force me to _read_ the pages I recommend?
00:12:06tucozpreglow, is palatino ugly?
00:12:24*Bagder does the magic langv2 moves in silence
00:12:30preglowtucoz: it's too huge for us, i think
00:12:30webguest51there's no 3g-specific bootloader −− should i just try the 4g?
00:12:40preglowtucoz: either than that, it's a good looking font
00:12:51linuxstbwebguest51: No. I'll make you one.
00:12:53tucozBut, we can define point size.
00:12:53preglowmost stuff by herman zapf is good stuff, but not everything can be used for manuals
00:13:17webguest51oh, thank you linuxstb.
00:13:18linuxstbwebguest51: Are you going to reformat as FAT32 and try to install Rockbox?
00:13:28preglowtucoz: well, worth a shot of course
00:13:36preglowtucoz: but i say we shouldn't care too much about that yet
00:13:42preglowtucoz: times is a completely ok generic choice
00:13:59tucozso, preglow. You even know the names of Font creators :-)
00:14:09preglowlike i said, i like typography
00:14:14linuxstbwebguest51: Be aware that the only 3g developer hasn't been around for a while, and the 3g port is nowhere near as complete as the port for the newer ipods. But we need testers...
00:14:24preglowand hermann zapf is a rather famous one
00:14:44tucozYes, that is the beauty of LaTeX. Change one line, and a totally new look.
00:15:03tucozI'll read about him in wikipedia then.
00:15:12Cassandrapreglow, isn't he a total dingbat though?
00:15:37CassandraNo no, not Times. It is the suck.
00:15:51preglowCassandra: hahaha, i can appreciate font humour
00:16:06*Cassandra is such a nerd sometimes.
00:16:11preglowtimes doesn't look very nice, no
00:16:37*Cassandra likes Avantguarde, Univers and New Century Schoolbook.
00:16:50preglowthe last is in latex, i think
00:16:50*JdGordon wants webdings!
00:16:55*Zagor likes 6x13
00:17:11tucozChicago 12 !!!
00:17:16tucoz...or maybe not
00:17:17preglownothing bloody beats 8x16 at 80x25
00:17:30*preglow is a fan of ansi art :]
00:17:39CassandraDamn, I wish I'd get around to designing the 5x3 font I want to do in my copious free time.
00:17:40tucozah, the good old days
00:17:41 Quit nnod (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:17:48preglowi've even coded an sdl ansi viewer
00:17:50Zagortoo wide! you can't fit 3 emacs windows side by side with that.
00:17:51preglowperhaps i should port it to rockbox
00:17:59CassandraThe problem is that it's such a silly project it's very low priority.
00:18:13webguest51Wonderful (downloaded). Does the mac install page assume that i've first formatted it to FAT?
00:18:24CassandraOf the Rockbox fonts, I like jackash the best.
00:18:30CassandraBut then I would - I designed it.
00:18:32preglowi like the default best, heh
00:18:43preglowbut i'm SO going to port 8x16
00:18:44Cassandraschumaker clean is nice, yeah.
00:18:48tucozI like the default, only slightly larger
00:19:00tucozwhich is the one I use
00:19:08linuxstbwebguest51: Yes. It also has instructions for converting - but unfortunately they won't help you. (you will see why when you read them). I think your only option is to use a Windows PC.
00:20:09CassandraDoes anyone remember where I can get the Rockbox VMware Debian image from yet?
00:20:22webguest63It's linked in the wikipage
00:20:34webguest63VMwareDevelopmentPlatform or somesuch
00:21:16CassandraI'll stick that on the docs index.
00:21:21 Join ashridah [0] (
00:21:57Bagder113 visitors here right now
00:22:24tucozI have to say that palatino looks prettier than Times. I think I change it to that for now.
00:22:38preglowoh, it does
00:22:39preglowby far
00:22:59tucozI'll commit it, and you'll see for yourself
00:23:11 Join quobl [0] (n=quobl@tor/session/x-af201b5705e3dc95)
00:23:22Cassandratucoz: I'd still prefer New Century Schoolbook.
00:23:26CassandraThe 2.4 manual was in that.
00:24:00tucozWe could offer manuals with different fonts as well
00:24:09CassandraNever understood why people have such objections to clean highly reabable fonts.
00:24:12CassandraLet's not.
00:24:20tucozI joked
00:24:30webguest51linuxstb: does it need to be formatted as an ipod, or will a blank fat32 format work?
00:24:32preglowthe 2.4 manual sans font?
00:24:40Daishihrm ipod_fw -g nano -o rockboot.bin -i apple_os.bin bootloader-nano.bin didnt make apples firmware the default
00:24:42preglowi couldn't stand that font
00:25:03CassandraWell, the 2.5 font should be available.
00:25:10linuxstbwebguest51: It needs to be formatted as an ipod. Otherwise the Apple bootloader (stored in flash) will refuse to load the Rockbox bootloader.
00:25:13CassandraSince I nicked it from a TeX distribution.
00:25:13preglowahh, i think i was talking about 2.5
00:25:18preglowthe rounded sans thing
00:26:07CassandraSo sue me - I find rounded sans fonts to be the most readable.
00:26:41preglow <- what we should aim for
00:26:49preglowthat'd be the best manual ever
00:27:49tucozpreglow, see if you like the manual better now
00:28:29tucozthe font, that is
00:29:14*Cassandra hates serif fonts with a passion.
00:29:25 Quit cky1billion (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:29:40preglowCassandra: how is possible to hate serif fonts? they're the best
00:29:50preglowtucoz: you know, it actually works well as opposed to what i said
00:30:18 Join cky1billion [0] (
00:30:38tucozI think so too. Well, we know that it's easy to change it if we would want that anyway.
00:31:03preglowswitching fonts in latex is a breeze, the only stupid thing is all the new overfull hboxes you might get
00:31:43preglowbut anyway, i'd like some opinions on what i just put forth in ManualHowto
00:32:06preglowi don't like the thought of us having to edit the manual everytime some bloody company finds out they want to letter their name in some new fancy way
00:32:13 Join xmixahlx [0] (n=xmixahlx@
00:32:39Bagderwe should pick a spelling and stick with it
00:32:42preglowespecially when it defies all typographic and linguistic rules to start with
00:32:52preglowBagder: i think that spelling should be the one actually rooted in english grammar
00:33:02preglowand not some fancy graphic designers wet dream
00:33:13tucozI agree with preglow. Iriver, Ipod, Archos, Iaudio
00:33:22Bagderit makes sense to me too
00:33:32preglowof course it makes sense :P
00:33:54tucoziRiver, iPod, iAudio, Archos
00:34:06webguest63aRchos o.O
00:34:34tucozIt looks ok for a brand, but in the text it just not good.
00:34:40webguest63Some people insist on writing RockBox
00:35:25tucozAnd some insist on writing rbs
00:35:28nudelI-Pod would be the proper english, I think. (like it's meant to be e-mail but everyone writes email)
00:35:52Bagderno, I vote for eye-pewd
00:36:19bluebrother^how about "I, pod" ;-)
00:36:50Daishiso how do i make the apple firmware default? there doesnt seem to be anything in the docs
00:36:57webguest51Aye, Pod!
00:37:12webguest51or I Pawed
00:37:42preglowtucoz: but ok, this should be agreed upon and put down somewhere
00:37:46DaishiiPod is a proper noun nudel
00:37:54Daishiits supposed to be like that
00:38:03preglowit's a proper trademark
00:38:05preglownot a noun
00:38:14linuxstbDaishi: You can't make the Apple firmware the default with the Rockbox bootloader.
00:38:26preglowyou should distinguish between trademarks and words
00:38:26Daishilinuxstb: why not?
00:38:38preglowthe trademark is iPod, the word should be Ipod
00:38:43bluebrother^but whats against writing brand names the way their respective company does?
00:39:09Bagderbecause it looks weird
00:39:13preglowbluebrother^: 1) we'd have to change our entire manual everytime a company changes its mind, just like iriver did (iRiver vs iriver), 2) it doesn't follow standard english rules
00:39:17Bagderbecause we get trouble when they change
00:39:32CassandraRight. The Rockbox development VM is now on Gnutella 2 and eDonkey.
00:39:43bluebrother^hmm, this could be solved using a macro ...
00:39:50preglowCassandra: bittorrent? :>
00:39:53CassandraCould people please grab it so my net connection doesn't get totally hammered.
00:39:58Cassandrapreglow: Coming ....
00:40:04preglowgreat, i'd prefer that
00:40:31preglowbluebrother^: yeah, but the second point is still valid
00:40:32tucozpreglow, It's a simple change. Just change what's in the platform files
00:40:41Zagor <−−- much better bandwidth than
00:40:49bluebrother^I't also suggest writing brand names in, say, caps
00:41:01preglowwhy would you want to do that?
00:41:02nudelOr just ignore it when they change their stupid name. :) Nvidia insist on being all caps (NVIDIA) which I refuse to write. Except just now. heh
00:41:16preglownudel: which is how the good lord intended it to be
00:41:23tucozand I vote for the Iriver version.
00:41:43bluebrother^I don't mean writing everything in capital letters but the thing called "Kapitälchen" in german.
00:41:49preglowsmall caps?
00:41:53preglowi still don't see the need
00:42:02nudelmake it configurable :)
00:42:04preglowit's an ordinary name
00:42:10preglowone capital, the rest small
00:42:12bluebrother^small caps as I looked it up right now.
00:42:25preglownot all latex fonts have proper small caps
00:42:38preglowscaled small caps look like a bag of shit
00:43:35Daishipreglow: arent there more pressing issues in the world?
00:43:53preglowDaishi: so i shouldn't care about it because there's hunger and war?
00:43:59bluebrother^I would use small caps for names to mark them as names. Similar to the (r) or (tm) stuff.
00:44:10preglowi want this manual to be as good as can be
00:44:12obonudel: any chance of a hdd icon on your green theme?
00:44:24preglownudel: which reminds me, any nano version yet? :>
00:44:30Daishiim talking about iPod titling specifics
00:44:47nudeli'll add a hdd icon, sure
00:44:51preglowDaishi: i know, and we need a policy, people are asking if they should write iriver or iRiver
00:44:55nudelwill probably do a nano version this weekend
00:44:57preglowDaishi: i don't want a bit of both spread everywhere
00:45:00nudelbeen too tired to do anything after work
00:45:02Daishiid say the majority of people see iPod like that and recognize it like that, it would give the docs a nicer feel if it was left as iPod
00:45:05obothanks :)
00:45:12tucozgood night folks
00:45:18preglowDaishi: and i say fuck that, if they can read, they can recognize Ipod
00:45:23preglowtucoz: night
00:45:27tucozpreglow, I agreed with you on the wiki ;)
00:45:29nudelIpod looks completely ridiculous IMO.
00:45:33preglowtucoz: you warm my heart ;)
00:45:34 Join webguest49 [0] (
00:45:36 Part tucoz ("Leaving")
00:45:40preglownudel: because you're not used to it
00:45:44Daishinudel: it does look weird since were used to iPod
00:45:57 Quit webguest49 (Client Quit)
00:46:02preglownudel: why would a completely normal word spelled the way all english words are, with a capital in front, look ridiculous?
00:46:11bluebrother^but why should we use something the users aren't used to?
00:46:19preglowbluebrother^: so we don't have to care about it ever again
00:46:35 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
00:46:43preglowbluebrother^: if apple starts to write it ipod or IPod or iPOD, wedon't have to care, we followed the good old english rules of standard lettering
00:46:43nudelbecaus eit isn't a normal word... it's got a letter prefix that isn't pronounced the way a letter normally is. it's pronounced i-pod, not ipod.
00:46:51bluebrother^sure? I guess there will come answers like "why is iPod spelled wrongly?"
00:46:53Daishiheh do an sed s/Ipod/iPod/g and have 2 versions of the manual
00:47:07preglowbluebrother^: and i'll have a ready written page to direct them to
00:47:25Daishii think apple is going to keep it as iPod
00:47:29linuxstbnudel: "Ipod" is pronounced the same as irate for example.
00:47:29preglowso do i
00:47:32preglowthat's not the point
00:47:46 Join webguest21 [0] (
00:48:06kclafiP0d yo
00:48:08preglowthe major underlying point is that i don't think people have the right to dictate how the written language works
00:48:08nudeldamn you for finding the one weird english word that backs up the point lol
00:48:12preglowthat's a step in the wrong direction
00:48:23 Join BHSPitLappy2 [0] (
00:48:30bluebrother^from my viewpoint "iPod" is a name. And names don't comply to any language rules.
00:48:34preglowthey do
00:48:39preglowthey're written with a capital
00:48:41nudelit's not a word, it's a name, it can be whatever the name inventor says it is. Like Ronald McDonald isn't Ronald Mcdonald.
00:48:42preglowand then small letters
00:48:43preglowthat's a rule
00:49:02bluebrother^I wouldn't say so.
00:49:07preglowyou'd be wrong :)
00:49:10bluebrother^take "Windows XP"
00:49:10crashdMcDonald is a name tho
00:49:18linuxstbMc is a prefix - "son of Donald"
00:49:22bluebrother^there are capitals within the name.
00:49:22nudeliPod is also a name
00:49:31Daishii is apples prefix for stuff btw
00:49:46webguest63it's _Apple's_
00:49:48preglow"apple's" being the point, yes, there's no historical basis for it
00:49:49Daishia prefix lots of people are used to
00:49:52webguest63not proper Englis
00:49:53preglowit's just something that pulled out of their asses
00:50:00Cassandrapreglow: What's a good tracker site for legitimately shareable files?
00:50:05nudelIf you're going to write Ipod I hope you also write Mp3 and Aac and Flac
00:50:06Daishiwell language changes in time
00:50:09preglowCassandra: i wouldn't know...
00:50:17pilliPod is a trademark
00:50:19webguest63nudel: Those are acronyms
00:50:20preglownudel: they're abbreviations
00:50:24crashdCassandra: well, i dont know about that, but thepiratebay has a good distributed tracker, and you can share legal stuff on there
00:50:25preglowwhat webguest63 said
00:50:27crashdas in, people do
00:50:29pillso it's spelled iPod
00:50:30nudeland the i in ipod doesn't stand for soemthing?
00:50:31crashdeven if it's generally not for legal stuff
00:50:33Daishilots of people seem to be fine with iPod and its capitalization
00:50:36pilland that's it
00:50:44bluebrother^why change names and don't change abbreviations?
00:50:50preglowDaishi: a lot of people can't write proper english either
00:51:01Cassandracrashd - I'd considered it, but I don't think a link to "The Pirate Bay" is something we want on the Rockbox site.
00:51:03preglowand they don't have to write manuals
00:51:06pilli'm sorry, what is the iPod spelling discussion about?
00:51:08crashdCassandra: yeah ;\
00:51:09webguest63bluebrother^: Because English dictates that acronyms are in all-caps
00:51:19Daishiwhy not just keep it as iPod(tm)
00:51:21 Join Aditya [0] (
00:51:23Daishiand be done with it
00:51:33preglowDaishi: i've told you the reasons, you just don't agree
00:51:35CassandraThere's a wonderful phrase.
00:51:38webguest63That's been answered a million times
00:51:38Daishiyou'll be respecting proper english then
00:51:44Daishisince its a trademark
00:51:52Cassandra"All trademarks are the property of their respective owners."
00:51:53preglowDaishi: are you writing the manual?
00:51:55Daishiand trademarks are just spelled however
00:51:56nudelThe BBC have a really annoying habbit of lowercasing acronyms now, like "Aids" and "Pc" (for Police Constable, but still PC for Personal COmputer, which is even more annoying due to being inconsistent)
00:51:59Daishipreglow: no
00:52:02preglowDaishi: ok, you can keep your opinion
00:52:04crashdCassandra: perhaps?
00:52:08CassandraI believe it's already in the copyright statement.
00:52:16crashdi didnt want that at all
00:52:27Daishipreglow: are you the only one writing it?
00:52:40preglowDaishi: as a matter of fact, iprobably won't be writing much at all
00:52:44preglowDaishi: but i'm trying to "help"
00:53:05preglowand raise issues i see as important in one context or another
00:53:05 Quit webguest21 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:53:29CassandraIt doesn't actually matter what we do as long as it's consistent.
00:53:37preglowand language happens to be one thing i care about
00:53:46preglowhowever badly i seem to mangle it from time to time
00:53:48CassandraI think I'd prefer iPod and iRiver, even though I personally think they're pretty stupid.
00:53:50pillthat's iPod
00:53:54obonudel: does my patch in 4819 work for you?
00:54:01pillthe way i has to be spelled.
00:54:09webguest63Cassandra: iRiver isn't the preferred spelling anymore
00:54:19ashridahdoes the IAudio X5 bootloader work for the M3 as well?
00:54:27nudelnot tried yet obo, but it's in my inbox for when i get time to play with RB some more (probably the weekend), and thanks!
00:54:32pilliPod is not and has never been a word, it's a trademark.
00:54:44preglowpill: it's a word to, a noun even
00:54:47preglowpill: you just used it in a sentence
00:54:49pilli meant noun
00:54:52pillblame the beer
00:54:55CassandraAlthough sentences beginning with "iPod" should clearly begin like "IPods are a bane of the existence of copywriters."
00:55:06preglowCassandra: so you apply english rules there but not elsewhere?
00:55:09CassandraThere used to be a style guide on the wiki somewhere.
00:55:21obookay, shout if it doesn't :)
00:55:50*Cassandra shrugs.
00:56:11preglowiPod is a logo
00:56:12preglownot a word
00:56:19preglowstop treating it like one
00:56:33preglowshould i stop ranting now?
00:56:39Daishierm where does rockbox store its config? i cant find it in .rockbox
00:56:40nudeluse a PNG instead of text every time it's mentioned
00:56:40crashdi think the problem comes from languages mutability
00:56:49pillthank god i'm never reading the manual
00:56:52CassandraParticularly since it's a logo that happens to be a word.
00:56:57crashdespecially english's, whereby language rules have loads of exceptions and stuff
00:57:05crashdhehe, see, i cant even use my own language.
00:57:07nudeland companies' annoying marketing shite, like Yahoo! having that *fucking* exclamation mark that should be illegal.
00:57:08preglowCassandra: who decided that's what the word looked like?
00:57:08crashdproof right there
00:57:16preglowCassandra: i'd look at the logo and see the letters, then write it 'ipod'
00:57:22preglowCassandra: i mean Ipod, it's a name after all
00:57:29Cassandrapreglow, consensus, I think.
00:57:33pillit's not in the dictionary
00:57:52preglowpill: it practically is, and _THAT_ will be really interesting to see, by the way :)
00:57:52pillthen write it as it is on the official source
00:58:03oboDaishi: in a otherwise unused area of the hdd
00:58:04linuxstbDaishi: In an unused sector on the hard disk.
00:58:11obobut you can save it out to a config file
00:58:13preglowpill: if the dictionary people succumb to corporate icons, then i'll just shut up
00:58:36Cassandra"ipod" beats "iPod" on googlefight. I retract my previous opinion.
00:58:37 Join Thus0 [0] (
00:58:46Mooswow really long semantic discussion
00:58:47pilli never want iPod to be in the dictionary, like i nver want Walkman to be
00:58:59Daishidoes the color ipod turn off its backlight yet? cause i set the cfg to do that and it didnt
00:59:00MoosGodd night or whatever at all
00:59:04 Quit Moos ("Glory to Rockbox !!!")
00:59:13preglowpill: they could be in a dictionary for all i care if they're used as generic nouns like 'walkman' is
00:59:22pillbut it's a made up word
00:59:25preglowDaishi: it should
00:59:31preglowpill: all words are
00:59:38Cassandrapill, do you object to the word hoover too?
00:59:41pillsome corporate out-of-some-mind idea
00:59:51pillhoover is a brand
00:59:56Daishiinfact setting any options doesnt seem to work
00:59:57nudel"ipod" beats "iPod" on googlefight <−− that's probably lots of people who can't be bothered to type *any* capitals, even at teh start of sentences
01:00:02linuxstbpreglow: iPod is already referred to in the Oxford English dictionary - (under the definition of podcast)
01:00:03preglowpill: i don't care where words come from, once they've reacher a certain level of universal usage, they're proper words
01:00:08CassandraIt's also a generic term for a vacuum cleaner.
01:00:14CassandraWhat about 'fridge'?
01:00:15pillbtw i'm french so i have other examples that may not mean anything to you but still
01:00:35preglowlinuxstb: now that's just sad to see...
01:00:42CassandraFridge is a generic term for what Americans call an icebox.
01:00:50pilli dont want ipod to be generic
01:00:53pillnever ever
01:00:59pillsince it is not generic
01:01:00GaloisI don't think googlefight means anything since google is not case sensitive unless your word contains uppercase characters
01:01:02preglowit almost is already
01:01:04preglowi don't much care
01:01:11*ashridah prods IAudio-knowledgable types
01:01:11CassandraIt's also a shortening of "Fridgidaire", a popular early brand of refridgerator maker.
01:01:16linuxstbpreglow: And this page also contradicts your viewpoint:
01:01:23pilli'll never allow anyone in my surroundings name his/her multi-codec jukebox and 'ipod' if it's not
01:01:28linuxstb"...accurately render iPod, PlayStation, and Wal-Mart."
01:01:30zeCassandra: fridge is short for refridgerator
01:02:11pillplease dont make iPod generic :(
01:02:16webguest63naming it "multi-codec jukebox" will earn you a punch in the face from me, though
01:02:17preglowlinuxstb: well, if it's official there's not much i can say
01:02:19pillit's sub par
01:02:51pillwebguestWHatever, i name mine an iHP, since it's what it is
01:02:51 Join damaki_ [0] (
01:03:02preglowwe now have to remember cap order in addition to spelling :/
01:03:03pilland i called my previous player a slimx
01:03:05pillsince it was
01:03:09webguest63There needs to be a proper name for these gadgets really
01:03:21webguest63Sure there does
01:03:29webguest63"I'm shopping for a ... a what?"
01:03:29linuxstbpreglow: It's only official as far as the Oxford University Press are concerned.
01:03:44preglowlinuxstb: you could easily call them an authority with a straight face
01:03:53pilli'm shopping for sometihng i know
01:03:59preglowand i would seriously have expected better from them
01:04:06crashdthe OED are into adding new, hip words now
01:04:08pilla DAP
01:04:10crashdthey've been doing it for a while
01:04:13webguest63pill: "one of those gadgets that plays music that you put on their harddrives or memory"
01:04:14pillit's DAP
01:04:18pillquit arguing
01:04:19crashdthey added 'girl power' as a 'word' a few years ago
01:04:37*pill cries
01:04:40webguest63That's not accepted yet, though, and I am annoyed by acronym overuse
01:04:50pillyeah well i am annoyed by Apple
01:05:07Galoisit's clearly iPod as far as I'm concerned. For heavens sake they engrave the thing that way on the back of every player.
01:05:08 Quit BHSPitLappy (Connection timed out)
01:05:23nudelwhen refering to iRiver/iriver products, the capitalisation should be done as at the time the device was made (heh, kidding..)
01:05:27pilli'd rather have my iHP referred to as a DAP than as an ipod (pun intended) clone that it's not.
01:05:42CassandraI like 'dap' as a word.
01:05:45GaloisiRiver can go f!@# themselves
01:05:48pilllike sms
01:05:51pilllike mms
01:05:55pilllike irc
01:06:01CassandraThe problem is it doesn't cover recorders.
01:06:01pilli <3 acronyms
01:06:14preglowi'd rather have the capitalisation done as according to english language rules, not as dictated by some huge corporation
01:06:20webguest63Cassandra: that's a corner case.. they still pllay
01:06:25CassandraMaybe they should be 'pads' (as in "personal audio device")
01:06:27pillthen then create the acronym DAPR
01:06:41nudelI don't like DAP... Nobody outside of people who talk about them on the itnernet have a clue what a DAP is, and it seems like an unnecessary TLA.
01:06:49CassandraOr since they're interactive ... ipads. ;)
01:06:53preglowi can see apple demanding a new character in the alphabet to represent the ipod in the future
01:07:01webguest63nudel: exactly
01:07:03nudelit worked for prince
01:07:05Galoisthe corporation dictates the name anyway. It's not too much of a concession to give them the capitalization too.
01:07:19preglowGalois: everyone can give a name
01:07:25Galoisalso corporations aren't all-powerful, witness Xerox and Kleenex
01:07:34preglowGalois: what would you think if everyone starting deciding how to capitalise their own name?
01:07:35pillwho cares anyway? :(
01:07:48preglowGalois: would you enjoy remebering THoM jOhanSeN
01:07:53Galoispreglow it's much worse in japan
01:07:57pillit's not a trademark
01:08:01crashdevening THoM jOhanSeN!
01:08:03pillyou have to respect trademarks
01:08:08preglowcrashd: good day to you!
01:08:14Galoisover there people dictate the particular rendition of the characters in their name
01:08:18preglowpill: in certain contexts yes...
01:08:21nudelpeople seem to think case sensitive filesystems are a good idea (they f***ing aren't!) so why not names, lol
01:08:22crashdi am dAviDJoHnStON!!!!
01:08:23preglowGalois: no they don't
01:08:30preglowGalois: they all use the same alphabets
01:08:37Galoisthere are variants
01:08:39Cassandrapreglow, I have a feeling Ani DiFranco, Edward de Bono, Joe DiMaggio and others might want to be allowed to use variant capitalisations.
01:08:47Galois"that is not ny name"
01:08:49preglowyou have hiragana, katakana, kanjii, and that's that
01:08:56Galoisoops, "this is not my name"
01:09:06Galois"There is a market in Japan for font software that allows you to modify glyphs to be able to typeset exactly the variant you have in mind!"
01:09:14preglowlinuxstb: \usepackage{EULA} :-)
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01:10:43Galoisthe issue is that individual kanji semantic units can have multiple renditions which are all linguistically the same but don't look the same in writing
01:10:44preglowGalois: 'variant' implying it's an existing glyph
01:10:50CassandraNot to mention a whole bunch of O'Brian's, O'Neal's etc.
01:11:08 Quit darkless (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:11:15preglowCassandra: they all have historical backing
01:11:16Galoislike in english, the way a typset "a" looks different from a handwritten lower case a
01:11:26preglowCassandra: most of those prefixes denote a family relationship
01:11:38preglowCassandra: all of them also used to be a separate word in front of the name in questions
01:12:31preglowand one of them still is, hyes
01:12:52preglowCassandra: hell, the 'sen' in my name means 'son of', and i don't capitalise it even :)
01:13:14preglowno one does, but that's beside the point!
01:14:40Galoisit's reasonable that if you're writing the manual then you can do what you want in your own writing, but I would not recommend scrubbing the entire wiki to "conform" to one rendering or another
01:14:46linuxstbWhy don't we just ban the words IPOD, IRIVER and IAUDIO from the manual? A nice challenge for the manual authors.
01:15:39webguest63Galois: NO! The manual _must_ be internally consistent.
01:15:50Galoispeople aren't stupid you know
01:16:01Galoisand I've never heard of search software so bad that it can't handle case
01:16:03webguest63Because everything else would be highly stupid.
01:16:13webguest63The manual is not a hundred little pieces of writing. It is one document.
01:16:14preglowGalois: why not have it consistent when you can?
01:16:21 Quit muesli__ (Connection timed out)
01:16:29Galoisthe problem with that is that, if you had to pick one, the only logical choice is iPod
01:16:33Galoisbecause that's what EVERYONE ELSE uses
01:16:36preglowi'd beg to differ
01:16:43preglowEVERYONE ELSE isn't always right, you know
01:16:48preglowwe're allowed to make our own opinion
01:16:51Galoisbugger if they aren't
01:16:56preglowand i don't say we have to do what i say
01:17:03preglowi'm trying to make a good point, that's all
01:17:04Galoisit's far worse to deliberately be inconsistent with everyone else
01:17:10Galoisit makes our own consistency efforts farcical
01:17:24Cassandrapreglow: with language, it pretty much is what everyone else says that's right.
01:17:29Paul_The_NerdI don't see any reason that deliberately being inconsistent because you feel something else is wrong, is bad.
01:17:40nudelwhen you install the manual it should ask you for your prefered spellings :)
01:17:45preglowCassandra: yeah, but i don't think people have thought this over too much
01:17:45Galoispaul_the_nerd: it's bad, when the justification being cited is internal consistency
01:17:50webguest63Cassandra: I think English is much "worse" than many other languages, in that respect
01:17:59preglowCassandra: and i'm not the only one with this opinion, if that's what you mean
01:18:03preglowi didn't even think of it myself
01:18:10Paul_The_NerdGalois: We Americans outnumber the British folk. Should they change what English is to fit our rules?
01:18:16Cassandrapreglow, No, I don't. I agree with you.
01:18:22Paul_The_NerdInternal consistency is not tantamount to external consistency.
01:18:34CassandraBut I don't think what it should be and what it is are the same thing at all.
01:18:39preglowi think i read it in a book on typography by robert bringhurst
01:18:42 Quit damaki (Connection timed out)
01:18:50preglowa book i also recommend heartily for those interested in the area
01:18:52CassandraThe question is, will people understand if we say "ipod"
01:18:58CassandraThe answer is clearly yes.
01:19:07GaloisPaul_The_Nerd: likewise, I don't think rockbox should be enforcing american or british english in their wiki
01:19:09CassandraTherefore "ipod" is an acceptable term.
01:19:33Aditya"ipod" is never an exceptable term
01:19:35preglowGalois: do you see the final consequence of what you're saying?
01:19:40preglowGalois: everybody writing like they feel like?
01:19:42nudelHow about ipoD
01:19:45CassandraGalois, the manual at least used to be in British English.
01:19:47nudelthat'll piss off everyone
01:19:55nudelwhich seems fair
01:20:19Adityathere are to be no strings that containing the characters "i", "p", "o" and "d" in a consecutive order
01:20:26webguest63Galois: How about every manual contributer use whatever font they personally like?
01:20:38Adityaand colors! dont forget colors!
01:20:41CassandraPersonally I'd like it to stay that way on the grounds that it's our bloody language and Johnny come lately foriegners shouldn't be telling us how to speak it.
01:20:43Paul_The_NerdI'm actually in favour of iPod, but stored as a bitmap image so that it can be said that it's not a spelling, but rather a logo-image.
01:20:48CassandraI may be biased in this respect.
01:20:49preglowCassandra: amen!
01:21:03GaloisPaul_The_Nerd: better have alt text or the blind users will riot
01:21:18preglowof course, being half english might leave me a bit biased as well
01:21:18linuxstbCassandra: Are you including preglow in that?
01:21:32linuxstbCassandra: I take that back.....
01:21:38crashdhehe, didnt know you were british Cassandra
01:21:41crashdbut i agree
01:21:44crashdbeing british and all :)
01:21:46preglowi'm half kentish
01:21:52crashdpreglow: unlucky :)
01:21:55webguest63Plus, Europeans, which is the majority of developers generally learn to speak English at school
01:22:04 Quit bluebrother^ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:22:06CassandraNever mind. You could be from Norfolk.
01:22:07nudelargh, i want to sleep but i have to hang up washing, else i'll be forced to ride commando again to work tomorrow
01:22:10webguest63That is, English as opposed to American
01:22:25webguest63nudel: too much information
01:22:26*Cassandra wonders what happened to the style guide that used to be on the wiki for the manual.
01:22:36CassandraIt's important that we have consistency.
01:23:03Cassandra(A lot of it was specific to OOo usage, but not all.), and anyone else with a dot and a domain suffix in their name, should be shot
01:24:21nudelI refuse to type it. It's OpenOffice in my mind.
01:24:35nudelI'm surprised they haven't named the suite :-)
01:24:58BHSPitLappy2why do you use it?
01:25:05webguest63Trademark issues afaik
01:25:13preglowi stopped using it after i found latex
01:25:23preglowonly reason i see to use an office suite anymore is for spreadsheets
01:25:29nudelI only ever installed it to make it work as a viewer plugin within DirOpus
01:25:29Galoispreglow: it's \LaTeX
01:25:35Cassandrapreglow: That'd be LaTeX.
01:25:49CassandraOr rather the name that's not renderable on IRC.
01:25:54preglowGalois: i can't reproduce an epsilon and chi character in my irc client :/
01:26:01nudelwhich is pronounced lay-tek instead of latex... which bugs me
01:26:03ashridahheh, yeah, subscript e or something :)
01:26:16*lostlogic beats himself with his twitchy 'c' finger
01:26:19*Cassandra would quite happily have Knuth and Lamport beaten up for that particular bit of pretentiousness.
01:26:25preglownudel: actually it's spelled laytech
01:26:29ashridahnudel: actually, i thought it was pronounced La-Tek , not lay-tek
01:26:33preglowwith a 'loch' sound
01:26:39nudelmIRC <−− another one
01:27:11nudeloh really? long time since i've heard anyone say it (i.e. since I left university)
01:27:13CassandraI vote we change the entire project name to boxRock.
01:27:14preglowi don't bother pronouncing correctly myself, though
01:27:42nudelHow about bokbokbokx, in honour of the swedish chef
01:28:00BHSPitLappy2preglow: have attempts been made to RE the tvout capability? just wondering
01:28:09preglowCassandra: if you include the period in the name, then hell yeah, i'm with you on that
01:28:17CassandraI like Borkbox. ;)
01:28:17preglowi bet people would bloody include it
01:28:18BHSPitLappy2nudel: it's Bork!Bork!box
01:28:22webguest63I never heard anyone pronounce it for years. Imagine my surprise when I suddenly heard it pronounced and found that it wasn't pronounced like the rubber.
01:28:26nudellol preglow
01:28:30preglow" Tried the latest boxRock. yet? It's nice "
01:28:33Cassandrapreglow: box.Rock ?
01:28:43nudel"box.Rock ?"
01:28:50 Quit ashridah ("uni :(")
01:28:56nudelwith 16 spaces after the .
01:29:04preglowviolating grammar obviously isn't so important anyway
01:29:04preglowso hell
01:29:09preglowlet's bring punctuation into it
01:29:13nudeland then that non-breaking space character that looks like a space but isn't
01:29:17preglowit'll be a hoot
01:29:17BHSPitLappy2and greek letters
01:29:19CassandraAnd one of those paragraph symbols at the end.
01:29:21 Quit cky1billion (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:29:32lostlogicwill it break anything to reformat the ipod data partition with mkdosfs?
01:29:34nudeland a tiny photo of jimi hendrix
01:29:37 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
01:29:37CassandraAnd the first o should have a line through it, and the second one an umlaut.
01:29:41BHSPitLappy2nudel: it's gone too far
01:29:42preglowlostlogic: shouldn't, no
01:29:43crashdlostlogic: no
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01:30:25webguest63Talking about spaces that look like space but isn't, Unicode has something in the order of 10 diffent types of spaces, it's a riot
01:30:29webguest63If not more
01:30:34nudelthe Archos firmware will have to be cut-down to the extent where it can't play music because allt he space is used up with code for rendering the firmware name
01:30:39preglowunicode is pretty comprehensible
01:30:41webguest63Whitespace characters, rather.
01:30:45Galoiswebguest63 that can be useful sometimes.
01:30:45preglowwebguest63: in typography you've got a bunch of spaces
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01:30:56preglowwebguest63: like en space, em space, hair space, space
01:31:06preglowwebguest63: they're probably including those
01:31:31nudelI was so annoyed when i found out unicode has multi-character characters. :( Can't they just leave programmers alone with that complex crap that's so uncommon you'd have to be insane to bother wasting time coding for it?
01:31:43preglownudel: ????????
01:31:53preglownudel: you think foreign character sets is uncommon?
01:31:58nudellike some characters are control characters which modify the next character
01:32:01Galoisthose of us who speak non-english need it
01:32:07preglowthere are about 5 million people here that might disagree
01:32:07nudeli don't mean that
01:32:11preglowand this is a small country
01:32:26nudeljust that there are 32-bit characters, rather than all of them being 16-bit, so string handlign is a huge pain in the arse
01:32:37preglownudel: ahh, that depends on what you use
01:32:50nudelyou can jump to the 6th byte and know it's the 3rd character :(
01:32:53preglownudel: doing internal representation in utf32 is wise, that way all characters are always 32 bits
01:32:58Galoisit's far, far worse without unicode
01:33:06preglownudel: then you can convert to a variable size representation when you write to a file, for example
01:33:16nudeli figure unicode should be utf32 all the time
01:33:29preglownudel: that'd waste tons of space
01:33:42Paul_The_NerdOkay, this is perhaps the *weirdest* installer I've seen for software.
01:33:42nudeleasier to code though :)
01:33:44Galoisthe killer with utf32 is that it's not ASCII compatible
01:33:47preglownudel: but yeah, just keep using utf32 internally, that'll save you tons of grief
01:33:51Paul_The_NerdWhen I run setup.exe it points me to a .html file on the CD
01:33:52*Cassandra thinks that bloody Moetoerhead started this whole downward spiral.
01:33:54nudelutf8/utf16 mean you're working with compressed data effectively
01:33:55preglowPaul_The_Nerd: bonzi buddy installer?
01:34:03webguest63preglow: U-2000 - U-200B are all spaces of various kinds
01:34:07CassandraAnd they were a bad influence on Bjork.
01:34:09Paul_The_NerdWhich then leads through a series of web pages, after which it finally points me to a link to a .exe on the CD.
01:34:17markunpreglow: phaedrus961 and I were thinking about 16-bit arrays for unicode in some places
01:34:30preglowmarkun: any places in particular?
01:34:45markunpreglow: filename buffers for example
01:34:49 Nick BHSPitLappy2 is now known as BHSPitLappy (
01:35:00preglowmarkun: probably a good idea, but very fat32 specific
01:35:17 Join mtf8 [0] (n=windowsr@
01:35:24mtf8I just got rockbox installed :)
01:35:25preglowmarkun: and in these days of people wanting hfs...
01:35:31preglowmtf8: congratulations! hope you like it
01:35:37markunpreglow: not really, it's more that we now need to allocate 3x the max size and with 16-bit only 2x
01:35:38mtf8I'm sure it's gonna be great
01:35:44mtf8I don't see my music though
01:35:49preglowmarkun: but you can't represent everything in ucs16...
01:35:57preglowmtf8: what player?
01:35:57Paul_The_Nerdmtf8: What kind of player?
01:36:02mtf8nano 2GB
01:36:06mtf8fat32 fs
01:36:07preglowmtf8: ahhh, right
01:36:15mtf8didn't touch any of it during the install
01:36:17preglowmtf8: itunes uses a weird database format rockbox can't read yet
01:36:26mtf8no biggie if I've gotta upload it all again
01:36:34mtf8no problemo
01:36:37preglowmtf8: rockbox just basically reads ordinary files
01:36:38mtf8can I still use gtkpod?
01:36:45preglowmtf8: just drag and drop your music over
01:36:45Paul_The_NerdYou don't need gtkpod
01:36:48crashdmtf8: you dont need too
01:36:52Paul_The_NerdIn rockbox it's browsed by file tree.
01:36:53Galoisyou can use mount
01:37:00mtf8so just cp :)
01:37:05mtf8where should I put them?
01:37:07preglowmtf8: rockbox will probably support itunes database in the future, but as of right now, the ipod port is pretty new
01:37:09Paul_The_NerdWherever you want
01:37:11preglowmtf8: wherever you like
01:37:12Galoisanywhere except iPod_Control
01:37:13webguest63or rsync :)
01:37:24markunpreglow: true. If you guys think we'll use glyphs above FFFF than we'll not change it
01:37:28oboor unison
01:37:37preglowmarkun: only thing i know is that it might happen
01:37:37mtf8dd :)
01:37:46*mtf8 realizes what a bad joke that was
01:38:05linuxstbAFAIK, HFS Plus uses utf-16
01:38:30preglowmarkun: the solution with only allocating 3*MAX_PATH is pretty fat32 specific anyway
01:38:41preglowmarkun: so the full blown logical way would of course be going utf32
01:39:00preglowlinuxstb: utf16 and ucs16 are two different things
01:39:41preglowi mean ucs-2, btw
01:39:49preglowthere's no such thing as usc16, i recall
01:39:59 Part obo
01:40:08webguest63 - "What is the difference between UTF16 and UCS-2", in case anyone else is interested
01:40:15crashdisnt utf16 and ucs2 quite similar tho?
01:40:18crashdor am i getting confused?
01:40:36crashdah, heh
01:40:42markunpreglow: rockbox uses 16 bit for unicode already after the arabic and hebrew processing
01:40:44BHSPitLappypreglow: do you have anything to say about my tvout question? you kind of overlooked it :/
01:41:00preglowBHSPitLappy: i overlooked it so thoroughly i can't even remember what it was about
01:41:06 Quit kernel_sensei (Remote closed the connection)
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01:41:28markunanyway, good night all
01:41:34preglowgood night
01:41:44 Join XavierGr [0] (
01:41:47BHSPitLappy"preglow: have attempts been made to RE the tvout capability? just wondering"
01:42:16XavierGroof! I've been trying to learn to use putty through Vmware my way all day
01:42:20preglowBHSPitLappy: none at all, afaik
01:42:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:42:24XavierGrAt least I managed what I wanted to do
01:42:58BHSPitLappyI wish I was a hardware genius sometimes...
01:43:06 Join TCK [0] (
01:43:54 Quit kernelsensei (Connection timed out)
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01:44:05preglowBHSPitLappy: not too late!!
01:44:20sharpehmm... i guess scoring at or above 99 percent of all people who took the same test i did means i'm decent at it.
01:44:20BHSPitLappypreglow: no, but a little too early :P
01:44:28preglowBHSPitLappy: lemme know if you grow tired of the relentless encouraging git routine
01:44:29BHSPitLappyonce I can code I might start studying that stuff
01:44:46sharpeokay, i'll be back to coding that thing sometime.
01:44:54BHSPitLappypreglow: which routine is that? :P
01:44:55sharpenobody knows what i'm talking about, but still.
01:44:59sharpebye everyone.
01:45:04preglowBHSPitLappy: the one with the two exclamation marks behind it
01:45:08*Paul_The_Nerd wonders how slow the USB on his TI calculator is.
01:45:11BHSPitLappynah, I use it too
01:45:23BHSPitLappyit's how I manipulate coders into doing my bidding
01:45:26preglowPaul_The_Nerd: usb? my ti89 only has serial!
01:45:39Paul_The_Nerdpreglow: I lost my old TI-89, and had to get an '89 "Titanium"
01:45:43Paul_The_NerdIt has the serial port AND a USB port.
01:45:44preglowis it leet?
01:45:46BHSPitLappyti 84 has usb
01:45:52Paul_The_Nerdpreglow: It's all ROUNDED.
01:45:53preglowgod, i love my ti89
01:45:56preglowit's like a portable matlab
01:45:59preglowalbeit a slow one
01:46:30Paul_The_Nerdpreglow: I've been without an '89 for about 6 months now, and I finally picked up a replacement.
01:47:00Paul_The_Nerdpreglow: It's a bit bigger than I remember, and looks funny. :(
01:47:04 Join SamAdam [0] (
01:47:40Paul_The_NerdAnd I've been backing up the apps they included on it for about 5 minutes now so far, over USB, and it's still going...
01:47:53preglowstill serial, in other words...
01:48:11BHSPitLappyhi SamAdam
01:48:17preglownot too pretty
01:49:02Paul_The_NerdI liked the design on the old '89 much better. Ah well
01:49:23Paul_The_NerdI couldn't find one. They had 83s, and 86s, but the only 89s were these titanium ones
01:50:46 Join austriancoder [0] (n=austrian@
01:50:47SamAdamaye, the older was better
01:51:42BHSPitLappyso who's going to port rockbox to the TI's, just for laughs?
01:51:56BHSPitLappyyou can actually play crude, crude sound through the serial port
01:52:14BHSPitLappy4 channel midi-like things too
01:52:30Paul_The_NerdBHSPitLappy: TI's have plenty of useful software as it is, I don't think they need Rb'ed
01:52:36preglowwe don't care about sound anyway
01:54:18BHSPitLappyof course not
01:54:32 Quit Kohlrabi (Nick collision from services.)
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01:54:53*preglow does the waiting for the build table dance
01:55:08Cassandrapreglow: torrent is now seeded.
01:55:23BHSPitLappywhat is it?
01:55:36CassandraIf anyone wants the Rockbox development environment virtual image.
01:55:52CassandraBy far the best way to develop Rockbox under Windows.
01:56:01CassandraPlease consider hosting/seeding the file.
01:56:12preglowCassandra: i'll seed it tomorrow
01:56:21preglowcan anyone recommend a decent client for linux?
01:56:41preglowCassandra: how big is it?
01:56:53Paul_The_NerdCassandra: is that the VMWare image?
01:57:01Cassandra100mb or so.
01:57:10CassandraPaul_The_Nerd, yes.
01:57:10austriancoderwhat gcc version is recomended for rockbox?
01:57:29SamAdamhi all. i just started the oscciliscope, and i can't figure out how to exit it.
01:57:34Paul_The_NerdCassandra: Alright, I'll DL, and seed whenever I can then
01:57:45preglowok, i'll just seed it now
01:58:01BHSPitLappySamAdam: menu??
01:58:16BHSPitLappySamAdam: sometimes menu+center is used to exit, too
01:58:20CassandraIf you can grab it via bittorrent, that'd make sure everything was working.
01:58:26preglowCassandra: are you firewalled/nated ?
01:58:27BHSPitLappy(obviously not held down for too long)
01:58:41SamAdamaye, got that
01:58:41preglowahh, no, here it comes
01:58:45Cassandrapreglow, yes, but the firewall is configured appropriately.
01:58:49BHSPitLappydid it trabajo, SamAdam ?
01:58:55preglowCassandra: good, mine isn't :-)
01:59:06preglowi'll see about fixing that now
01:59:31preglownow if i only knew what ports the gnome bt client uses by default
01:59:40Galoisaustriancoder: lists recommended versions
02:00:00austriancoderGalois: ah.. cool
02:00:24CassandraAnnoyingly it's kind of hard to make sure torrents stay avaialble using Shareaza.
02:01:33CassandraHmm. I suspect it'd be quicker to grab the image of lostlogic's site now we know that bt is working OK.
02:02:04Paul_The_NerdCassandra: Exact same file? Link me, and I'll DL it and seed
02:03:17Paul_The_NerdLast time I downloaded from there, I think it was a .rar
02:03:29preglowthat was what hubbel used first
02:03:47 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
02:03:50*webguest63 is sharing the file on ed2k
02:04:11preglowverily, i can really enjoy the new super fast build times
02:04:59preglowi remember having to wait a bloody hour before being cleared to go to bed
02:06:16 Quit xmixahlx ("blah blah blah")
02:07:37SamAdamBHSPitLappy, aye
02:08:20Cassandrawebguest63, cool, thanks.
02:08:28CassandraMe too as it happens.
02:08:35CassandraIt's on G2, ed2k and BitTorrent.
02:08:45CassandraShareaza is my friend.
02:09:23*Paul_The_Nerd becomes the next seed, WOO
02:10:04preglowdoesn't seem like opening ports had much of an effect, then...
02:11:14BHSPitLappySamAdam: I recommend using Rockbox's bootloader over iPodLoader2
02:11:28SamAdamBHSPitLappy, i think i might actually be
02:11:38BHSPitLappydon't think so...
02:11:44SamAdami used the tutorial on the forum...
02:11:49Cassandrapreglow: Oh dear.
02:11:52BHSPitLappydoes your loader have a menu?
02:12:01BHSPitLappythen it's iPod Loader 2
02:12:06CassandraI currently have 2 people seeding and one downloading.
02:12:07SamAdamthis one:
02:12:28preglowCassandra: riiight
02:12:40preglowlostlogic: .
02:12:40Paul_The_NerdCassandra: Does it show you IPs? Is there a in the seeders?
02:12:42preglowlostlogic: ..
02:12:44CassandraI am one of the seeders.
02:12:46lostlogicpreglow: yes yes, thanks
02:12:55*Paul_The_Nerd doesn't trust his bittorrent client.
02:13:01preglowlostlogic: what, i was about to list your contents for you
02:13:22preglowCassandra: i haven't got a bt client fancy enough to seed without leeching first
02:13:33lostlogicpreglow: you know what I contain eh?
02:13:33CassandraPaul_The_Nerd, I don't seem to be able to get that info.
02:13:45preglowlostlogic: i was about to start doing educated guesses :)
02:13:46Cassandrapreglow, ah - maybe you're the leecher then. ;)
02:13:55preglowCassandra: that'd be me...
02:14:13*Paul_The_Nerd goes to try another client
02:14:17Paul_The_NerdIt wasn't showing me uploading anything
02:14:21preglowi was feeling pretty sure of myself up until ".."
02:14:23Paul_The_NerdI think my client wants to be selfish
02:14:45preglowPaul_The_Nerd: try snatching a piece off of bt
02:14:54preglowPaul_The_Nerd: so i can see if my port forwarding even worked
02:14:58preglowi hate nat
02:15:19preglowpeople should just be nice to each other and roll out ipv6 as fast as can be done
02:15:36BHSPitLappySamAdam: <−− use that as your loader.bin
02:15:42BHSPitLappyin the big make_fw
02:15:59Paul_The_Nerdpreglow: My router's all IPv6 ready and stuff to.
02:16:08Paul_The_NerdNoooow I'm uploading
02:16:09preglowPaul_The_Nerd: i sincerely doubt mine is
02:16:13preglowPaul_The_Nerd: so i see
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02:16:30Paul_The_Nerdpreglow: I've got that wonderful Linksys one that everyone on earth has hacked twice
02:16:31preglowmy router was so full of bugs it wasn't usable
02:16:38preglowluckily i know people on the inside of my isp
02:17:16 Quit JoeBorn ("")
02:17:35Paul_The_NerdUnfortunately my upload rate is at max about 15kbps, so I can't donate *much* to the torrent, but every little bit helps
02:17:57preglowi've got about 70k/s upload
02:18:03 Quit SamAdam ("Leaving")
02:18:21preglowdepends on a lot of factors
02:18:23Paul_The_NerdI've had consistent download rates upward of 900k/s, but my upload is ~15ish.
02:18:28preglowall of them outside of my control
02:19:44Paul_The_NerdOh, wait, apparently I can upload faster
02:19:48Paul_The_NerdTHIS client capped it too
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02:20:42*Paul_The_Nerd is now magically uploading at 42kbps, which is faster than his connection is supposed to allow.
02:20:57CassandraI think I'm sharing 256kbps but that's split between three networks.
02:21:00preglowi'm uploading!
02:21:20Cassandrapreglow: I wonder who to.
02:21:31Paul_The_NerdCassandra: I see two peers.
02:21:39CassandraMe too.
02:21:56CassandraIf by peers you mean leachers.
02:22:01Cassandra(I hate that term.)
02:22:22Paul_The_NerdMy client calls 'em "Peers" and you and I "seeders"
02:22:24Paul_The_NerdIt's polite
02:25:41preglowcalling'em leachers does make it sound like it truly is a warezhub, yes
02:25:43XavierGra leacher is the person that only donwloads and doesn't contribute on uploading.
02:25:55preglowXavierGr: no, bt calls all downloaders leechers
02:26:04preglowregardless of upload status
02:26:27XavierGrI am quite sure what a leecher is named on p2p. At least on DC and eMule
02:26:28*Paul_The_Nerd wonders what the difference is between a "Local" and a "remote" peer
02:26:50 Quit kernelsensei (Connection timed out)
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02:27:08webguest51does rockbox only work through usb, or is firewire also acceptable?
02:27:14preglowoinly usb
02:27:16preglowonly usb <-
02:27:19preglowat least i think so
02:27:35austriancoderto get sound on x5 working i must hack sound.c and tlv320.c/h - that are all files or?
02:27:56Paul_The_Nerdwebguest51: Rockbox doesn't actually *use* the USB port at the moment anyway. It can charge from it, but that's it.
02:27:59preglowaustriancoder: the only person qualified to answer is sound asleep
02:28:33austriancoderpreglow: okay.. maybe i find it out by my own
02:28:54XavierGrwow austriancoder: it's been some time since I last saw you :)
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02:29:52preglowbut i should go to bed
02:29:53preglowlater, all
02:29:58Paul_The_NerdCya preglow.
02:30:02austriancodergood night
02:30:25austriancoderXavierGr: jep.. was a horrible time for me... but now things are getting better
02:30:42KensirHey everyone, I'm leaving the country tomorrow and don't have the time to really compile my own Rockbox for the 5G... so does anyone have Doom compiled into their Rockbox for the 5G?
02:30:57XavierGrI remember that you were up porting a target but then we lost you. Which target was it?
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02:33:18linuxstbaustriancoder: You also need firmware/pcm_playback.c
02:34:06austriancoderlinuxstb: lets see if i get some sound out of it
02:34:59webguest51so. if any of you are wondering. my ipod was all fucked up (firmware something, i assume −− blinking folder when it tried to boot, random other issues, and even when "restored," would only go to disk mode). Now i have tried for 4 hours to rockbox it, and it seems that the previous deaths precluded this possibility. So don't tell people they can bring back the dead.
02:35:35webguest51Not that anyone told me that it was possible. But i had hope. Which has now been slain. Oh so slain.
02:35:53Paul_The_Nerdwebguest51: Is it just your disk that's bad?
02:37:01webguest51couldn't tell you, paul. I think that the pitiful battery might have something to do with it... the inability to remember its own settings, etc
02:37:23webguest51when i put things on it, as a blank formatted hard drive, it keeps them, and spits them back out fine
02:37:39 Join nnod [0] (
02:37:57KensirI'd hate to beg, but I really can't compile Rockbox for the 5G...and im looking for is doom, tetris, bejeweled, and album art
02:38:08CassandraWell if you used the Apple firmware restore utility, it's highly unlikely to be Rockbox that's the problem.
02:38:10Kensirhas anyone here pulled it off?
02:38:36CassandraKensir, I believe Tetris and Jewels are in the standard build.
02:38:55CassandraErm ... Rocktris, or whatever.
02:39:07webguest51oh, i'm not claiming that it is. I just thought that i could turn a nonfuntioning ipod into a functioning one, because all the issues seemed to be firmware problems. I was wrong.
02:39:23Cassandrawebguest51, sorry to hear that.
02:39:26Kensirthanks Cassandra
02:39:39Kensiri guess ill do some more forum digging for the Doom thing...
02:39:57Paul_The_Nerdwebguest51: Well, the firmware's stored on a special partition of the disk. If that partition is damaged, trying to write the Rockbox loader to it still won't work probably
02:40:01CassandraI don't think there's anyone providing custom iPod builds at the moment.
02:40:10Paul_The_NerdKensir: Doom is kinda futzy at the moment, I believe.
02:40:36Paul_The_NerdCassandra: I get requests for them pretty much daily. =/
02:40:59webguest51If the firmware partition was damaged, and even apple's restorer left the damn thing in disk mode, is there anything left that you'd suggest trying?
02:41:52Paul_The_Nerdwebgest51: No clue, unfortunately
02:42:35webguest51Nuts. Well, thanks for your help everyone. And congrats on the boingboing mention. Peace.
02:42:46 Quit webguest51 ("CGI:IRC")
02:43:40XavierGrdoes the sdl simulator uses X on linux?
02:43:51XavierGrI mean is it possible to run the sim for the VMware image
02:44:14CassandraPaul_The_Nerd, why am I not surprised.
02:44:31CassandraI take it no-one has yet offered to buy you an iPod to test them on.
02:44:54Paul_The_NerdCassandra: Man, if someone would buy me a 5G, I'd provide custom builds for 4G, 4G Gray, Nano AND 5G.
02:44:59Paul_The_NerdIt'd had to be a 60-gig though
02:45:22Paul_The_NerdIt's not like I don't build a functioning custom build with Doom on it daily for *myself*
02:46:15webguest63XavierGr: Yes
02:46:50Paul_The_NerdCassandra: But in most cases on the forums, I've at least been able to talk them into setting up a dev environment, a much healthier alternative than dependency I think. :)
02:50:42Paul_The_NerdWoo, all peers are now seeds
02:51:38 Quit Fitzsimmons (Remote closed the connection)
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02:52:41XavierGrPaul: can you build SDL simulator for windows inside VMware?
02:53:04Paul_The_NerdXavierGr: Y'know, I haven't tried.
02:53:14Paul_The_NerdI'd imagine you'd need a crosscompiler for such a thing...
02:53:19XavierGrbecause it nags that I don't have sdl installed
02:53:26XavierGrwell shouldn't be indluded?
02:53:33XavierGron the vmware image?
02:53:42XavierGrit is supposed to be compile ready.
02:54:06Paul_The_NerdXavierGr: If you compiled an SDL sim, it would probably be a linux SDL sim
02:54:24Paul_The_NerdI wonder if all you need is apt-get install sdl, or if it would need other things
02:54:43XavierGrthere is no package sdl
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02:55:05Paul_The_NerdDunno then
03:00:56 Quit herz42 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:01:29sneakumsprobably libsdl1.2-dev if it's a Debianish system
03:01:39 Quit cky1billion (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:02:14XavierGrhaha ~65mb
03:02:22sneakumsor libsdl1.2debian if you're just trying to run an sdl app
03:02:29 Join cky1billion [0] (
03:02:32sneakumsi should read back more
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03:07:56warthawgcan you install rockbox from linux, on an ipodlinux ipod?
03:08:36linuxstbYes. Which ipodlinux bootloader have you installed?
03:08:45warthawgnever mind, i just read down past the windows things :)
03:08:47warthawgbut thanks
03:10:45austriancodershall i use the same init values for the tlv320 as in the original firmware?
03:11:08linuxstbwarthawg: You'll need to either install ipodloader2 from IPL, or the Rockbox bootloader.
03:11:57warthawgthanks, linuxstb
03:12:06 Join BHSPitLappy2 [0] (
03:12:15warthawgany recommendation on which path i should follow?
03:12:34lostlogiclinuxstb: just had a thought... or maybe it was yesterday and I rethought it today... i2c needs a treatment like you gave the LCD driver for ipod... I'm not sure because I haven't tested it, but I think that one of the commands that is done is a 'finish up' which might be able to wait or some such.
03:12:46Paul_The_Nerdwarthawg: Depends on what you want
03:13:17Paul_The_Nerdwarthawg: iPodLoader2 is best if you plan to be using linux a lot, or easily pick between them. Ours if you intend to use your iPod primarily as a music player.
03:13:18warthawgPaul_The_Nerd, the ideal would be to have both Rockbox and Ipodlinux
03:13:28warthawgthanks, Paul_The_Nerd
03:13:29Paul_The_Nerdwarthawg: Both will let you do that. It's just a matter of how.
03:14:29warthawgi wonder if i am going to end up writing two separate reviews, or combine them into a single open source ipod nano piece
03:14:47 Quit BHSPitLappy (Nick collision from services.)
03:16:12Paul_The_Nerdwarthawg: In my opinion, each deserves its own review. The purpose and functionality of each are pretty different, since Rockbox strives to give a powerful and mostly focused music player, while Linux pretty much turns your DAP into a small portable computer-like-thing
03:16:26 Part austriancoder ("Kopete 0.11 :")
03:16:53 Nick BHSPitLappy2 is now known as BHSPitLappy (
03:17:19webguest63What Paul_The_Nerd said
03:17:38warthawgok, i'll take you guys word for it, it will be two
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03:18:42Cassandra4 seeds = good news
03:19:10Paul_The_NerdI have uploaded 130mb! Yay!
03:19:10 Quit midkay (Client Quit)
03:19:18warthawg4 seeds?
03:19:35CassandraFor the Rockbox development environment VMware image.
03:23:01Cassandra(which someone else is now downloading.)
03:23:44 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
03:23:47Paul_The_NerdIt seems popular
03:23:48 Quit midkay (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:24:58CassandraAnyway - pumpkin time, I feel.
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03:25:39 Part XavierGr
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03:42:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:05:35 Join saratoga [0] (
04:06:17lostlogic43 completed (out of 256) downloads of the vmware development platform direct from my server
04:06:33saratogathats a lot of people
04:06:43saratogaI'm still useing cygwin since I know it
04:06:45lostlogicI didn't uniq on IPs yet
04:06:58saratogais it worth upgrading to vmware?
04:07:07JdGordonno, use the colinux image instead
04:07:11JdGordonmuch bette :D
04:07:41saratogai've already got a linux box, just i'm too lazy to setup everything again on it :)
04:07:42lostlogicsaratoga: probably a 3x reduction in compile time
04:07:50lostlogicvmware vs. cygwin
04:07:52saratogaso far thats not a big issue for me
04:07:53lostlogicplus the image comes all setup
04:08:05saratogai don't compile much, and i have a fast computer anyway
04:08:12 Quit Kensir ()
04:08:14saratogaso i guess i'll stick it out on cygwin until the semester is over
04:08:19lostlogicok, uniq still shows 43 people have successfully downloaded the complete image so far
04:08:29saratogai did actually have real questions to ask the devs :)
04:08:43lostlogicshould ask it
04:09:00saratogais there some documentation handy about how ATTR declarations actually work in gcc?
04:09:09saratogai looked at the #defines for them and i have no idea what they do
04:09:21saratogawell, aside from control IRAM use
04:10:03lostlogicwell the ATTR defines are just shortcuts for __attribute__(()) stuff that controls GCC's compilation and linking behavior
04:10:20saratogayeah i saw that
04:10:33saratogaso they just control the linker?
04:10:51saratoga(my compiler knowledge is almost zero)
04:10:57lostlogicessentially, google for gcc attribute
04:11:01lostlogicand you'll find resources describing them
04:11:12lostlogicwe use them to control what region of ram functions are stored in
04:11:26lostlogicand for profiling I use them to prevent certain functions from being profiled
04:11:30 Quit tvelocity ("Ex-Chat")
04:11:47saratogawe have profiling on rockbox?
04:11:52saratogahow does that work
04:12:12lostlogicit'd documented in the source tree somewhere TECH file or something
04:12:34lostlogicnot the most advanced profiling system, but it's the best I could do ;)
04:13:20saratogait records runtime info to a file or something?
04:13:47lostlogicyah, whatever set of functions (on one thread) that you want profiled it will record number of calls and time in function
04:14:02saratogawow cool
04:14:15saratogaso how much IRAM are we allowed to use in a codec ?
04:16:25saratogaso postfixing a declaration with "ICONST_ATTR" will allocate to the IRAM?
04:16:26 Join sharpe [0] (
04:16:46saratogaor is that only allocate a constant to the iram
04:16:55lostlogicwell iconst is for constant data only bss is for buffers, data is for data, code is for code
04:17:33saratogawhats the difference between data and a buffer?
04:18:07lostlogicsorry, I'm not exactly clear on that myself
04:18:30saratogathe code tag is used on whole blocks?
04:18:42lostlogicit's used per function
04:18:51lostlogicit must be part of a function declaration
04:20:31saratogalooking at libmad, it only uses ~3.6KB of IRAM, this is because no one ever bothered to optimize it?
04:20:38saratogai assumed we just didn't have much to spare
04:20:42lostlogicwhat makes you say that?
04:20:52lostlogicI'm pretty sure all of our codecs already use more than that
04:21:21saratogai grepped ATTR recursively on the libmad folder
04:21:33saratogaand the sum of all the declarations is just 3.6KB
04:21:46saratogaassuming all words are 4 bytes, which I think is correct on ARM
04:22:13saratogayeah, i'm a little puzzeled
04:22:45linuxstbThere could also be IRAM declared in apps/codecs/mpa.c
04:23:50saratogatheres more to the decoder then libmad?
04:24:03saratogaoh i see
04:24:07lostlogicit uses c000 through 13fcc
04:24:15linuxstblibmad is the decoder library. mpa.c can be thought of as the interface between Rockbox and libmad.
04:24:19lostlogicaccording tot he map file
04:25:11linuxstbJust under 32KB then...
04:25:18saratogaheh beat me to calc.exe
04:25:23lostlogicbc -l ;)
04:25:34lostlogicwhat is a .exe?
04:25:35linuxstbI have my trusty old TI-52 calculator to hand.
04:25:51linuxstb(20 years old and still the same battery...)
04:25:52saratogac000 is DRAM or IRAM?
04:27:14lostlogic4000c000 is the start of IRAM in ipod IIRC
04:28:37linuxstblostlogic: Are you aware that the 5g and Nano have 128KB of IRAM, compared to 96KB on the 4G ipod and iriver.
04:28:53lostlogicyeah, we'll have to figure out how to utilize it eventually.
04:29:00 Join amiconn [0] (
04:29:09saratogaso you're saying its allocated 32kb of the IRAM then?
04:29:18lostlogicsaratoga: yes
04:29:21linuxstbBut IRAM doesn't seem to be making much of a difference on the iPod though.
04:29:35lostlogiclinuxstb: yeah, the dram controller is much faster than iriver
04:30:52saratogai thought the cache sucked on the pp chips
04:31:09saratogaand mem latency was fairly high
04:31:27lostlogiclinuxstb: does the pp have a code cache similar to the cf?
04:34:59saratogalooking at the file I compiled for my ipod 3G, i see only 48KB of IRAM
04:35:09saratogaIRAM 0x40000000 0x0000c000
04:35:23saratogathe rest is reserved for the stack and system?
04:35:31saratogaor does that include everything
04:36:07linuxstblostlogic: All I know about the cache is that it is a unified code/data cache.
04:36:13linuxstb(and there is one per CPU).
04:36:43linuxstbsaratoga: That area of IRAM is for the stack and system. The 48KB reserved for codecs starts at 0x4000c000.
04:37:33linuxstbThe PP5002 (used in the 1G to 3G) apparently has a "broken" cache. Meaning that IRAM will be much more significant on those ipods.
04:37:46linuxstbBut the PP502x used in the newer ipods is apparently fine.
04:38:21linuxstbBTW, have you tried Rockbox on your 3g ipod?
04:39:30saratogaI have yes
04:39:37linuxstbDoes audio work?
04:39:39saratogathe build is now about a month old though
04:39:44saratogano, slimx is still working on it
04:40:01linuxstbHave you been in contact with him? I committed a bug fix a couple of weeks ago for the audio.
04:40:05saratogalast i heard some things in pcmplayback had been fixed, but audio was still not wroking
04:40:11saratogano i haven't
04:40:17linuxstbCan you try the current CVS?
04:40:20saratogai'll try to build from cvs now
04:41:54saratogawhatever happened to slimx anyway?
04:41:59saratogai haven't heard anything from him in a while
04:42:09linuxstbI've no idea.
04:42:33 Quit warthawg ("my work here is done")
04:42:50 Join webguest27 [0] (
04:45:17saratogadrivers/adc.c:288: error: syntax error before '==' token
04:45:20saratogaideas ?
04:45:29saratogafresh from cvs
04:45:37linuxstbI blame lostlogic...
04:46:16lostlogicwhaddadidid blah *takes a look*
04:46:37saratogawtf does 288 even do?
04:46:44saratogaI'm guessing thats a comment?
04:47:22lostlogicit's a preprocessor instruction
04:47:58lostlogicfixing, I believe
04:48:02lostlogic*does a 3g build*
04:48:02saratogaok thanks
04:48:08Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: A question in the forums has arisen that I find myself completely unable to help with at all, but you might have slightly more insight.
04:48:54lostlogicsaratoga: cvsup
04:48:57linuxstbsaratoga: It compiles fine for me.
04:49:02*linuxstb confused...
04:49:09lostlogiclinuxstb: preprocessor version stupidity IMO
04:49:16lostlogicsaratoga: what compiler version?
04:49:21lostlogiclinuxstb: compiler version?
04:49:28saratogahow do i check?
04:49:40lostlogicgcc -v
04:49:47lostlogicor arm-elf-gcc -v
04:49:55saratogagcc version 3.3.1 (cygming special)
04:50:08lostlogicarm-elf-gcc -v says?
04:50:15saratogait says gcc version 4.0.2
04:50:26saratogasorry, didn't realize my cygwin had two
04:50:40lostlogichmph, that's the version I'm running −− is it compiling OK from CVS now?
04:51:07saratogai'll delete everything and try again
04:51:36lostlogicmight have been a useless CVS commit I did then, but it's at least code policing ;)
04:52:03lostlogicsaratoga: cygwin will have gcc for building things to run on your computer, plus any additional gccs to build things to run on other systems (ie ipod)
04:52:17linuxstbI'm using arm-elf-gcc 4.0.2 as well.
04:52:38*lostlogic shrugs and decides that sleep is the only solution.
04:55:31 Quit Kohlriba ("Fast alle Menschen sind Regenwürmer")
04:55:54linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: Very odd. The 4G Color ipods have two difference LCDs, so maybe the LCD isn't being correctly detected the times when it isn't working. But it's too late for me to think about it now.
04:56:56Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: Okay
04:57:34saratogadoes the aac decoder work well on the ipod builds?
04:58:30Paul_The_NerdIt works less poorly
04:58:36saratogacompiled fine this time
04:58:44saratoga1 min, 45 seconds in cygwin
04:58:47saratoganot too bad
04:58:52saratogaless poorly?
04:59:03saratogaI'm guessing still no SBR?
04:59:30lostlogic1:45 isn't too bad −− you must have a much faster CPU than amiconn
04:59:53saratogaits the thing in AAC+ that makes it special
04:59:56saratogathe new stereo mode
05:00:08saratogawell, that and PS make aac+ different
05:00:10Paul_The_NerdAAC+ isn't supported at all, I believe
05:00:19saratogafaad should support it
05:00:43linuxstbI'm not sure if the fixed point version of faad supports AAC+ though.
05:00:53linuxstb(which is what Rockbox uses)
05:00:53Paul_The_NerdAlso, wasn't AAC+ after the license change?
05:00:58saratogaof course
05:01:03saratogai didn't think of that
05:01:10saratogalicense change?
05:01:14saratogaisn't it gpl?
05:01:18linuxstbNot any more.
05:01:25saratogawhat did they change to?
05:01:33linuxstbThey added their own advertising clause to it.
05:01:40 Join Rob2222_ [0] (
05:02:17linuxstbThey still call it the GPL, but most other people (including us) disagree.
05:03:02linuxstbBut there is talk in the ffmpeg project of them implementing their own AAC decoder. Which we will be more than happy to use instead of faad.
05:03:40saratogathats bizzare
05:03:45saratogathe nero people seemed pretty sensible about promoting aac
05:05:22saratogahow do i make rockbox show hidden files?
05:05:41lostlogicfile view show files all
05:06:05 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
05:07:02saratogadamn, just freezes when i try and play something
05:07:34linuxstbOh well.... What are you trying to play?
05:08:57saratogasome random mp3s
05:09:00saratoganow i got an error
05:09:04saratogaas opposed to a freeze
05:09:14saratogaUndefined instruction at FFF314E4
05:10:39 Quit TCK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:11:10Paul_The_NerdAw, what a dull memory address.
05:15:03saratogais there somewhere i can look to see where things are mapped?
05:15:14lostlogicsaratoga: recommend the .map files ;)
05:15:23lostlogicsleep... I said soemthing about sleep.
05:15:53saratogagood luck with that
05:17:06saratogasorry, didn't realize there were 800 maps files
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05:38:24interestediaudiodoes anybody know the status on the x5's audio playback?
05:38:45Paul_The_NerdIt doesn't work.
05:39:15Paul_The_NerdI mean, there's not really a progress to report. It's not working, and one day it'll be done, but you can't really say "70% there" or anything
05:42:04interestediaudioWho is working on it?
05:42:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:42:45Paul_The_NerdI think LinusN, but I couldn't say for certain
05:45:26interestediaudioIs the doom patch compatable with just the iriver?
05:45:55Paul_The_NerdiRiver and iPod
05:46:04Paul_The_NerdIt *might* work on iAudio, nobody's tested it yet
05:47:16interestediaudioI've tested it, and it's told me that it's the "wrong device." Is this just a setting in the code, or does this mean that it's truly incompatable?
05:48:15Paul_The_NerdYou compiled the plugin yourself for iAudio, or you just copied the .rock from somewhere?
05:52:41interestediaudioAha. Okay. Now I feel stupid. Off to go get source.
05:53:21Paul_The_NerdYeah, it's important that you compile it specifically for your target. It may need some #defines for the keys and stuff.
05:57:27interestediaudioYeah. I'll look into that..
05:58:17Paul_The_NerdI don't know if the screen resolutions are hard-coded or what, so I don't really know what changes would be necessary
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06:09:13interestediaudioDoes anybody know where I can get the source for the doom patch?
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06:11:37 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
06:13:20Paul_The_Nerdinterestediaudio: It's in the patch tracker.
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06:28:02 Part interestediaudio
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07:07:24bagawkamiconn: Night for me :)
07:07:50amiconnTimezones are a strange concept :)
07:11:05 Quit Thus0 (Client Quit)
07:12:13 Join B4gder [0] (
07:12:48B4gderwow, < 300 seconds build time
07:15:43amiconnYeah nice. Should even get faster when all the clients had a chance to build up the ccache
07:16:06amiconnE.g. mine got one different sim build each time after t0mas enabled simulators for m
07:16:12B4gderI cut out the zip transfers ydaya
07:16:53amiconnWe're now having some 64bit sims among the sim builds....
07:17:15amiconnActually only one in the last 3 rounds so far
07:18:07amiconnThey aren't specially marked, other than the logs say which client built the sim
07:18:15 Quit TiMiD (Remote closed the connection)
07:19:07amiconnWe have variations in the sim builds anyway, since not every build machine has the same host gcc.
07:19:29amiconnThe 32bit vs. 64bit is probably the biggest variation though
07:19:32B4gderI think we vary on the cross-compiled gccs too
07:19:57amiconnI use the latest of each series
07:20:09amiconn3.3.6 for SH, 4.0.3 for arm
07:20:35B4gder"Using sh-elf-gcc 3.4.5 (304) "
07:20:51B4gderon server
07:21:19B4gderso it certainly varies
07:21:35amiconn3.4.x isn't recommended.
07:21:43B4gderI know
07:21:51amiconnThat shoudl be changed, since the target builds are our downloadables
07:22:03amiconnSome use 3.3.4, that's ok
07:22:36B4gderthe 217* is Slasheri's
07:23:52B4gderI have a few other ideas to speed things up more still uses m68k-elf-gcc 3.4.1
07:24:39B4gderyes, lots of them use that version
07:25:30amiconnfarsan uses gcc 3.4.3 for arm.
07:25:44B4gderLinusN: !
07:25:57amiconnIirc there's something wrong with the iPod binaries built on 3.4.x
07:26:54amiconnbygg is the only machine with oldish 3.4.1 for m68k. All others use 3.4.4 or newer
07:27:08B4gderhm, how odd
07:27:16LinusNok, so i should use 4.0.2 for arm?
07:27:23amiconnYes, or 4.0.3
07:27:31LinusNok, i'm changing
07:27:43*amiconn prods Slasheri
07:28:48 Quit dpassen1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:34:37amiconnondio sp ajbrec.ajz built with gcc 3.3.6: 187068 bytes. built with gcc 3.4.5: 188820 bytes
07:38:30B4gderI added required version series to the build server wiki page
07:39:50 Quit LinusN ("disconnecting from stoned server.")
07:39:56B4gderbtw, the wikipedia Rockbox article got some fancy screenshots now
07:40:39*amiconn needs to add himself to the build server donators list
07:40:50 Join LinusN [0] (
07:40:52B4gderyou can add Bjrn and Linus there too
07:41:26amiconnoops, already changed, but will do
07:41:44JdGordonhow do i check if a string is in a variable in perl, where the string im looking for is in another variable
07:42:08B4gderif ($source =~ /$find/i)
07:42:19B4gdermakes a regex search case insensitively
07:42:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:42:56amiconnmorning Slasheri
07:43:01Slasheriamiconn :)
07:43:16JdGordonif (/$this_word/i) {..} "Quantifier follows nothing in regex; marked by <−− HERE in m/* <−− HERE / at ..." ?
07:43:31amiconnSlasheri: (1) Could you please change sh-elf-gcc on your build machine to the recommended one?
07:43:48amiconnYour're currently using 3.4.x which makes larger binaries
07:44:03Bg3rmorning :)
07:44:10Slasheriamiconn: oh, which is the recommended version?
07:44:21amiconnLatest 3.3.x, i.e. 3.3.6
07:44:30Slasheriok, i will change it
07:44:41amiconnYou'll need to use newlib to build it
07:45:14MikachuJdGordon: maybe if you used what he wrote instead of changing it?
07:45:53JdGordonsame error
07:47:01B4gderthen $this_word is empty I guess
07:47:19amiconnSlasheri: (2) Any news regarding tagcache? If you read you'll see that it's a wanted feature for 3.0
07:47:23JdGordonits not... everything else works fine..
07:47:43amiconnI'm specifically asking about the status of chunked browsing
07:49:12Slasheriamiconn: yes, i have noticed that
07:49:40Slasheriamiconn: i have started working with that, but it needs rewriting some of the big functions
07:58:29*B4gder runs cube on his x5
07:59:54*B4gder can't stop running it because he can't exit it :-)
08:01:43amiconnB4gder: power button...
08:01:51Slasherihuh, compiling gcc 3.3.6 generates a huge amount of warnings
08:01:52B4gderyeah, had to read the source
08:02:14amiconnSlasheri: Compiling *any* gcc generates a huge amount of warnings
08:02:38Slasherihmm :)
08:02:48Slasheribut i have never seen that much of warnings
08:13:40B4gderhey brickmania is greyscale on the x5
08:18:51amiconnB4gder: prod Paprica to add proper colour bitmaps for 160x128
08:19:07amiconnIt seems to use the h1x0/iPod 4g bitmaps
08:19:09B4gderI have no doubts others will ;-)
08:19:36amiconnmandelbrot, jpeg etc are in colour I hope
08:20:45Bg3rLinusN perhaps the iriver bootloader should output info on the lcd remotes too (at least i think that it should as rb 3.0 is an iriver release too)
08:21:02LinusNyes, it should
08:22:00*amiconn doesn't agree
08:22:22amiconnWhy make it more complex?
08:22:37amiconnThe remote backlight goes on already as an indicator
08:22:56*amiconn would rather prefer a faster bootloader :/
08:22:57Slasheriamiconn: now the gcc should have been installed
08:23:05amiconnSlasheri: nice :)
08:23:27Slasherihmm, the bootloader could be little faster (about 0.5s) if the checksum calculation is omitted
08:24:12LinusNyes, but that's a pretty bad idea imho
08:26:27LinusNvar ligger rooten fr
08:28:53JdGordonthe bootloader is too fast.. it doesnt give enough time to untangle the headphonge cable before music starts again :p
08:29:24Bg3ramiconn sometimes i can't see the remote backlight (try to see it on direct sunlight..)
08:30:16amiconnIt's too slow... With archos I can just press ON twice after connecting it to the car stereo, and it will resume. With iriver I always have to wait for the bootloader to finish before pressing Play a second time makes sure it resumes
08:30:50amiconnI don't want to enable reume on startup because sometimes I need to load the correct config first
08:31:18JdGordonthats a bit silly.. y cant u load the correct config after music has started?
08:32:33webguest27volume levels
08:32:35webguest27I imagine
08:32:42 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
08:33:01JdGordonhave u all seen the new aussie tourism "where the bloody hell are you" ad?
08:33:05amiconnYes, but in the meantime it sounds like crap, and is either too faint (earphone->car change) or ruining my ears (car->earphone change)
08:33:10JdGordonfunny spoof of the add..
08:35:28 Quit SoyFeo408 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:39:06B4gderI was pondering if we should introduce a new CONFIG_ define for audio decoder/encoder
08:39:30B4gderwe have CONFIC_CODEC
08:39:51amiconnCONFIG_CODEC is for the compressed audio codec
08:39:56B4gderyes I see
08:40:14B4gderI just find it weird that we use HAVE_UDA1380 and HAVE_WM8758 etc
08:40:16amiconnPerhaps we should have a separate one for the audio codecs/dac
08:40:22amiconnyes, exactly
08:40:34amiconnThat could also include DAC3550 (player)
08:40:56amiconn...and MAS3587 / MAS3539 as well because they are both
08:44:45amiconnLinusN: I could try to add line-burst reading to the x5 lcd driver, but that means moving the lookup tables into lcd.S
08:45:08amiconnHow should that be done correctly within the target_tree concept?
08:46:08LinusNput the file in the x5 dir
08:46:26LinusNlcd-asm-x5.S perhaps?
08:48:29 Join fox010 [0] (
08:52:31K-Bmaybe someone know what to do if cant acess my iriver on my computer
08:55:01 Quit darkless (Client Quit)
08:55:29Bg3rK-B your computer doesn't detect it ?
08:57:06 Join nave7693 [0] (
08:59:33K-Band even if i want to copy files by the usb 1.1 i cant
08:59:37amiconnLinusN: okay
08:59:40K-Bthe hd is dead
08:59:54K-Bi need program that can format the hd
09:01:11 Join safetydan [0] (n=dan@rockbox/developer/safetydan)
09:01:23LinusNK-B: which operating system are you using?
09:04:50*amiconn thinks dual-boot isn't necessary on X5 as the flash procedure is independent
09:05:04K-Bthe little green arrow is here but cant access
09:05:14amiconnLinusN: What I do think would be nice is to be able to rolo the X5 firmware, if that's possible
09:05:16Bg3rany opinions on this (as idea, not as code)
09:05:17LinusNwell, you might still want to boot the original without a computer
09:05:25 Part nave7693
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09:05:51LinusNamiconn: the x5 firmware, like the iriver one, is designed to run from flash
09:06:00LinusNso rolo is out of the question
09:06:09LinusNbut we can of course jump to it in flash
09:06:46LinusNBg3r: gets my vote
09:07:02Bg3rLinusN for all platforms ?
09:07:12LinusNK-B: open the Computer Management from the control panel
09:07:35LinusNBg3r: only for those who turn off the lcd, imho
09:08:00LinusNh300 and x5 to my knowledge, i don't know about the ipods
09:08:22amiconnImho all buttons should be able to turn on the LCD when it's off, and it should be optional
09:08:39Bg3rLinusN what about a special "original_fw.iriver/original_fw.iaudio" empty file, which, when rolo-ed, "jumps" to the original fw ? ?
09:08:51amiconn(for our blind users, since they don't care)
09:09:16LinusNBg3r: seems like an overly coomplicated solution to me
09:09:37amiconnLinusN: The iriver firmware runs from flash?
09:09:39Bg3rLinusN okay, but sometimes it's usefull even on the targets with b&w display
09:09:57amiconnI remember someone saying it copies itself to ram, but I may be wrong...
09:10:00Bg3rLinusN you mean the specific code ?
09:10:13LinusNamiconn: yes it copies itself
09:10:22 Join kclaf [0] (
09:10:30amiconnLinusN: So we can mimic that copy process and then call it?
09:10:43LinusNbut i don't want to patch Y versions of that firmware to be able to rolo it
09:10:59LinusNnot my idea of fun
09:11:39LinusNand with that solution you still can't boot the original if rockbox is removed
09:12:23LinusNK-B: there should be a Disk Manager somewhere in that window
09:18:21K-Bdownloaded dmdiag
09:21:11 Join Zagor [0] (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
09:22:05phaedrus961any devs wanna look at my keyboard patch and tell me what they think of my approach?
09:26:04K-Band then what?
09:26:19K-Bthe iriver dont appear
09:28:21LinusNK-B: sometimes, when the filesystem is corrupt, there will be no drive letter
09:28:34LinusNbut the physical disk is still visible in the disk manager
09:29:09K-Bok ill try again
09:29:18 Join EL1 [0] (
09:29:42EL1My rockbox is in german mode and I dont know howto get it out!
09:31:03linuxstbWhich player do you have?
09:31:58EL1one sec... let me turn it on... archos...
09:32:06phaedrus961EL1, go to the menu, select grundeinstellungen->sprache, then select english
09:32:36EL1os 1.28
09:32:44EL1rock box 2.8 something...
09:32:47EL1went by fast.
09:32:59K-Bno good 10x anyway
09:34:56LinusNK-B: does the iriver make any sounds?
09:37:31 Join BHSPitLappy2 [0] (
09:41:25EL1I dont see "grundeinstellungen" - should I just reinstall the rockbox software? That is fast, right? And it has been years since I installed it.
09:41:53B4gderyou can also just remove the german language file
09:42:18safetydanWhat about a settings reset?
09:42:21B4gderbut if it's been years, an upgrade might still be fun
09:42:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:42:43DJ_Dooms_DayHey Badger, how goes Rockbox 3xx development? Any work been done on movie playback?
09:42:53B4gderDJ_Dooms_Day: we wait for your patches
09:43:21DJ_Dooms_Daylol, fully
09:44:05DJ_Dooms_DayI take that as a 'no, we're not working on that at all right now'
09:44:17B4gdersee the release plans
09:44:39DJ_Dooms_Daythe who whats?
09:44:42DJ_Dooms_Dayoh, THOSE
09:44:45B4gderyou won't find any video playback mentioned anywhere there
09:44:46DJ_Dooms_Daygood idea
09:44:54EL1upgrading is fast?
09:44:55 Quit fox010 ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
09:45:05DJ_Dooms_Dayhaha, is it even possible?
09:45:32B4gderof course
09:45:43B4gdersince the OF has it
09:46:15DJ_Dooms_DayWell i went straight into the rockbox firmware heh, i have no idea what the OF could do
09:46:26K-Blinusn: yes it is
09:46:39K-Bthe iriver software is working
09:46:45K-Bbut can access the hd
09:46:53EL1anything specail I need to do because it is a "re=install"?
09:46:58K-Bwhen i plug to the computer
09:47:09LinusNK-B: can you connect to another computer
09:47:20B4gderDJ_Dooms_Day: the h3x0 can do 10 fps video playback
09:47:35B4gderthe x5 can do 13fps (I guess mainly due to the smaller resolution)
09:47:59DJ_Dooms_Dayx5? That the apple G5 thingy?
09:48:07LinusNiaudio x5
09:48:08B4gderiaudio x5
09:48:27DJ_Dooms_Dayi dont want a god damn iaudio though :P
09:48:38DJ_Dooms_Daymore importantly, i dont HAVE one
09:48:58B4gderit uses a very similar CPU
09:49:07DJ_Dooms_DayAlso, why the 10fps limitation. hardware?
09:49:09B4gderso the numbers are interesting as a comparison
09:49:32K-Bdidnt try it yet
09:49:35Bg3rB4gder in fact it uses the *same* cpu, just in a different
09:49:36DJ_Dooms_DayWhat about a less CPU intensive codec?
09:49:47B4gderit is different
09:50:10B4gderjust very small differences
09:50:26ZagorDJ_Dooms_Day: rvf is quite cpu friendly :-)
09:50:43phaedrus961EL1, upgrading should be as simple as unzipping the rockbox zip onto your archos. though you may need to fix your settings afterwards
09:50:47DJ_Dooms_Dayrockbox video file?
09:50:58Bg3rB4gder ah, yes
09:51:05Bg3rit was 5250 ...
09:51:06ZagorDJ_Dooms_Day: yes, plays on archos models
09:51:37EL1phaedrus961: thanks!
09:51:42DJ_Dooms_DayAre you guys even allowed to support commercial codecs? Wouldn't there be some legal issues or something
09:51:58Bg3rDJ_Dooms_Day support as ?
09:52:05DJ_Dooms_Day*shrugs* wmv?
09:52:18Zagorsome formats are patent encumbered
09:53:08Zagorhowever software patents are illegal in europe
09:53:16DJ_Dooms_DayAlso, why the 10fps too? Is the CPU actually incapable of making 100x100 pixels change more than 10 times a second?
09:53:21 Quit BHSPitLappy (Connection timed out)
09:53:24B4gder100x100 ?
09:53:39B4gderand if you read up on video codecs, you'll learn
09:53:40DJ_Dooms_Dayi dunno, read it somewhere on the wps thread :P
09:53:59B4gderthe h300 screen is 220x176
09:54:28B4gderbut feel free to prove it to be wrong number
09:54:44DJ_Dooms_Day...i'm sure your right badger
09:54:45B4gderthe fps I mean
09:54:53B4gderthat's what the OF can do
09:55:06B4gderI don't mean that it is a fixed limit
09:55:38DJ_Dooms_DayOk, and thats 10FPS with audio right?
09:55:56B4gderyes of course
09:57:00DJ_Dooms_DayIs 10 FPS even watchable? :P
09:57:15Bg3rDJ_Dooms_Day in fact it is :)
09:57:34DJ_Dooms_DayI guess you'd get a fair bit of natural smoothing on those LCDs with their low refresh rate.
10:15:27 Quit mikearthur ("Konversation terminated!")
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10:18:26K-BLinusN: maybe you have another idea how can i access my iriver?
10:19:05LinusNK-B: first of all, i would try with another computer
10:21:05K-Bok ill try anything
10:21:12K-Bi dont have warrenty or insurance
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10:27:08webguest27Albumart looks surprisingly good in 4-greys
10:27:38webguest27Still not sure what it accomplishes, but it doesn't look as hilariously bad as I expected
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10:42:24huntermicHi there, anyone know wether he X5 version will also run on an M5?
10:43:39B4gdersomeone should compile a list of differences between M5 and X5 and the other similar cowon models
10:44:25huntermicyes, good idea, i don't even know if the M5 has the same hardware as the X5 or the M3 :-#
10:44:39safetydanDoesn't rockbox already support musepack?
10:44:55B4gderafaik, it does
10:45:02Zagorhuntermic: no, the M5 has a V8 while the M3 has a straight six.
10:45:12Zagoroh, you're not talking about cars? ;)
10:45:17*safetydan sees a feature request that can be closed
10:48:49kclafM6 > M5 tho ;x
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10:54:58B4gderm5 looks like an x5 with greyscale lcd
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10:56:06LinusNwe might support m5 if someone does the porting work
10:56:16LinusNafaik, m5 is pretty similar
10:56:16B4gderit says "color sound"
10:56:24B4gderon the m5 too
10:56:26LinusNgrayscale sound
10:57:01B4gderif we're lucky, the lcd is similar to the h1x0 one
10:57:10B4gderit could be
10:59:29B4gderit uses the same resolution and depth
10:59:29huntermicbut i think a big question is:does it have the same processor, or isn't that important?
10:59:47B4gderI assume it has
11:00:10LinusNafaik, the m5 hardware is very similar to the x5
11:00:41B4gderclaims a 5249!
11:00:56huntermicso not the same as the X5
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11:01:38B4gderI don't trust that source blindly, but if so it would mean it is slightly different yes
11:02:06austriancodercan somebody gives me the ram start address + size and the rom start address + size for the x5?
11:02:18B4gderaustriancoder: source code?
11:02:37LinusNrom start: 0x10000
11:02:43LinusNram start: 0x31000000
11:02:54LinusNif you mean the application
11:03:30austriancoderI want to load the origianl firmware with IDA
11:06:16B4gderis the M3 remote anything similar to the X5's remote, anyone knows?
11:06:30LinusNi just love when people submit requests for already existing features
11:06:37LinusNit's the same
11:06:43 Quit gtkspert ("leaving")
11:06:56B4gderthen M3 support isn't out of the loop either
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11:10:17 Part EL1
11:10:27huntermicLinusN: Whta are you trying to say with that link, i know the contents but i don't know for sure the M5 is the same
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11:21:00MoosHello here !
11:21:27Moosaustriancoder: welcome back :-)
11:22:20markunB4gder: could you take a look at this patch?
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11:23:17markunIt works quite nice but phaedrus961 would like some feedback from any of the devs
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11:24:32markunamiconn_: interested in loadable keyboard layouts?
11:24:44NJoinqwm_ [0] (
11:24:56B4gderis that suggested .kbd format documented somewhere?
11:25:32markunIt's just a long UTF-8 string
11:25:43markunlike this arabic keyboard:
11:26:23markunalthough arabic and hebrew support has to be worked on
11:26:36B4gderthe patch looks fine to me, although I'm not really a keyboard user
11:26:39markunas of last night it has a korean input method
11:27:00markunbon apetit
11:34:09*safetydan does the "I am some sort fixed-point trig god" dance
11:34:13safetydanat bloody last
11:35:21safetydanpreglow, if you're around seems to be working for what we want in the equalizer coef calcs
11:35:26safetydannow to actually test it
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11:37:20Zagor"Vista - I wouldn't buy it with someone else's money. Then again What do I know, I've only been testing the dog for the last 2-3 yrs..."
11:37:42Zagorsome very bitter remarks on this MS blog:
11:37:50Zagor(totally off-topic, but interesting to read)
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11:41:43c0uttai'm testing the vmware image, but where are the rockbox files on my PC?
11:41:59c0uttanote i've never used *unix in my life
11:42:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:42:36 Part moozooh
11:45:54CassandraI think by default they're stored in the image itself.
11:46:15CassandraThere's info about copying them over to Windows on trhw wiki page.
11:46:28c0uttaii don't seem to have the \\ip\user share that's described on the wiki
11:47:26CassandraI'm not familiar enough with vmware to help you, sorry.
11:48:02webguest27c0utta: have you tried \\debian\user
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11:48:53amiconnLinusN: Any news on the X5 remote lcd format?
11:50:00preglowsafetydan: how'd the test go?
11:50:58c0uttaalthough webguest27 has gone - \\debian\user is the share available
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11:53:37amiconnpreglow: I tested your libmad changes on my amd64. No crashes at all,
11:53:43JdGordonheya ll.. im bored.. anythign i can help with?
11:53:53amiconnbut I noticed some strange behaviour when running under gdb control
11:56:06preglowamiconn: what about when skipping tracks?
11:56:12preglowamiconn: it crashes at the first mp3->mp3 skip here
11:57:16Nico_PZagor ?
11:58:34amiconnpreglow: Ah, that I didn't try. I only had one .ogg and one .mp3 to test with
11:58:46ZagorNico_P: yes?
11:58:52JdGordonwhats the generel consensus about some of these bug reports where something isnt implelmented on a target? just #ifndef the menu item out? i.e
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11:59:11amiconnWhat I did notice under gdb control was that somehow pitch changes on track changes. Then the crappy resampler kicks in
11:59:17Nico_Pi read your comment about my patch (
11:59:22preglowamiconn: weird...
11:59:31amiconnDoesn't happen when running without gdb
11:59:39Nico_Pfirst, thanks for your interest ;)
11:59:46preglowahh, one of those bugs
12:00:06Nico_Pi suggest creating a simple patch with the behaviour you were speaking of
12:00:15Nico_Pwithout the "one key only" thing
12:00:28Nico_Pand then trying to extend it in an elegant way
12:00:43Zagorextend with what?
12:01:10Nico_Pwith the possibility to have only one key turning the backlight on
12:01:29Nico_Pi't something i like very much
12:01:39Nico_Pand i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one
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12:01:46Zagormay I ask why? I don't see the point.
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12:02:20Nico_Pit's a kind of compromise between rockbox's default behaviour and it's opposite
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12:03:29tucozCassandra, if you want to add guidelines for the manual writing, please edit the wiki
12:03:47ZagorNico_P: yes, but what's the value? it's both confusing and much more complex code
12:03:48Nico_Pit's nice to be able to perform some actions on a single keypress, but sometimes you just want to turn the bakclight on
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12:04:19ZagorI think it's very confusing if some keys work and some don't. consistency is important.
12:04:26Nico_Pyes... that's why i suggest first commiting a patch with a simple setting : "on/off"
12:04:34Zagorok, good
12:04:44Nico_Pand then maybe trying to find a way of offering more choice
12:05:27Nico_Pok so i'll make a simple version
12:05:39Nico_Pand have you looked at how it works ?
12:06:35Zagoryes, the principle is sound I think. and removing the H300-specific parts will make the patch much more elegant.
12:07:07Zagorpossibly we may want this to be only for colour targets
12:07:26Zagorno, keep it totally generic
12:07:36Nico_Por the ones that have a backlight
12:07:43Zagorit might be nice to have even for gray/bw targets: in the car at night for instance
12:07:44Nico_Pmaybe they all have one ?
12:07:52Zagorafaik all targets have backlight
12:08:13MoosOndios haven't
12:08:24amiconnMoos is correct
12:08:26Zagorah. conditional on backlight then.
12:09:04amiconnNico_P: I'd say conditional on backlight, plus the default should be different whether the lcd is readable w/o backlight or not
12:09:51Nico_Pso maybe default to on only for color screens ?
12:10:01Nico_Pand off for others...
12:10:48Cassandratucoz: OK - will do.
12:11:03CassandraWish I knew what'd happened to the old ones. I suppose they're in the wiki somewhere.
12:11:04ZagorNico_P: try that first
12:11:09*Zagor goes to lunch
12:11:26Nico_Pi'll probably have the patch ready by this evening
12:11:28tucozCassandra, wiki pages tend to disappear
12:15:30markunJdGordon: go write a plugin :)
12:15:36JdGordonok, ideas?
12:16:08markunJdGordon: text-to-speech reader:
12:16:17JdGordonhas any1 looked at my text editor patch? i rekon it should be in 3.0 :D
12:16:23tucozJdGordon, a lot of the old ones needs to be fixed to work better on the newer targets
12:16:31Nico_Psimple one : adding color to demystify
12:18:59Nico_Pno ?
12:19:17*JdGordon looking at demistify.c now
12:19:25JdGordonalthough, dont we have enough demo plugins ? :p
12:19:33 Quit darkless (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
12:19:54Nico_Pmaybe but it's all sad in B&W... color would look awesome !
12:19:58markunor ... chess in colour :D
12:20:13JdGordonchess is "colour"... b&w peices..
12:20:37markunJdGordon: couldn't you tell I was joking?
12:20:56tucozJdGordon, add a trail to the ball in pong :-) It's useless on the h1xx as it is now
12:20:57JdGordonok, so whats a nice way to cycle through the colours?
12:21:52preglowi'd appreciate it if some ipod owner would test out voice ui now
12:21:58preglowesepcially 5g and 4g
12:22:41tucozpreglow, how do you start rockbox on the ipods? i.e. what button do you press?
12:22:49preglowtucoz: select or menu
12:23:13tucozOr should I say Ipods ;)
12:23:54preglowyes, i demand you cap that one word
12:24:05preglowi can't be bothered to use caps on irc myself
12:28:13pregloware there no recent voice files anymore?
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12:30:14tucozand how do you turn of the ipods?
12:31:00Galoisyou hold down play (it's the same as the apple firmware)
12:31:23tucozIt's for the manual in case you wonder
12:33:16Galoispreglow which voice file do I get? seems to indicate the files for cvs were removed
12:33:24preglowGalois: exactly :/
12:33:32preglowGalois: there is no recent voice file
12:33:33preglowwhich is bad
12:33:50preglowa file should be made with some ms synth or whatever
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12:37:01Mikachuor you could require that you send in a wav for 10 entries for every feature request you make
12:37:19preglowRockbox Allstars voice file
12:40:36Galoismm I got voice for a brief second but when I plugged the USB cable back in to charge it (while holding down menu) the voice stopped
12:41:01Galoisand now when I play music I get the good old "Undefined instruction\ at 00015EA4"
12:41:49Galoisokay, I get undefined instruction whenever I play music
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12:44:25Galoisthis is on ipod nano with latest CVS and the four line battery patch and I don't think the battery patch matters ...
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12:45:15*JdGordon BACK
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12:46:06JdGordondoes any1 wanna suggest a nice way of cycling the colours in demistify?
12:47:26amiconnpreglow: I simply didn't make new voice files since my .lang rework is still only partially done
12:47:47amiconnI'll make some as soon as I got this done
12:50:55MikachuJdGordon: if there is a hsv2rgb function in rockbox you could use that and only cycle the hue and use full saturation and value
12:51:09JdGordoni dont tihnk there is..
12:51:12MikachuJdGordon: and if not i think someone had a patch for using that in the color picker so that patch should contain one
12:52:20JdGordonok, ta
12:52:24JdGordonill have a look
12:52:31amiconnhsv2rgb is simple
12:52:40Mikachuit's even easier if you can steal it :)
12:53:03Mikachuthat was markun's patch btw
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12:55:44Mikachumaybe you could make saturation and/or value less than full for the trailing polygons
12:55:51Mikachunot sure how they're drawn though
12:58:04preglowamiconn: what's involved in the lang rework?
12:58:50preglowGalois: what, which format?
12:58:51JdGordonso, whats hsv white?
12:58:54Mikachulostlogic: i just realized backlight handling would be easier with the touch/untouch aware code, we can just make sure backlight isn't turned off while the finger is still on the wheel
12:58:56markunit's a quick hack
12:58:56preglowGalois: and i assume you're using the very latest build?
12:59:13GaloisI did a cvs update like 15 minutes ago
12:59:25preglowgimme a sec and i'll test
12:59:37Galoisoh, my music is in the vorbis file format
12:59:52MikachuJdGordon: any hue, saturation 0 and value 1
13:00:02MikachuJdGordon: if the scale goes from 0 to 1
13:00:21JdGordonwhat does the scale normally go from?
13:00:58Mikachuthe scale used in that code is listed at the top
13:01:03Bg3rsuggestion for shorter name than "HAVE_READABLE_SCREEN_WITHOUT_BACKLIGHT"? maybe HAVE_READABLE_SCREEN?
13:01:47Bg3rshorter ?:)
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13:02:31Bg3rbut longer than HAVE_READABLE_SCREEN
13:02:46Mikachubut that doesn't mention the light, HAVE_SCREEN is also shorter :P
13:02:50LinusNi don't mind long macro names in this case
13:02:51preglownow what
13:02:55preglowmy ipod wont bloody play music
13:03:11Mikachuwhat, why would you want to play music? you're supposed to write code
13:03:14LinusNpreglow: no, but it is trendy
13:03:32preglowTHERE it comes
13:03:38preglowafter buffering for a bloody day and a half
13:03:45Galoisso yours works?
13:04:10preglow'works', no, i wouldn't say that
13:04:26Bg3rLinusN so, what do you suggest as define ?
13:04:37Galoispreglow the same error happens on an unmodified CVS build
13:04:48GaloisUndefined instruction at 000178D0
13:04:54preglowGalois: on all files?
13:05:03Galoiseverything I try
13:05:41Galoisall my files are vorbis aotuv q-1 (like this matters)
13:05:42preglowmine plays music fine
13:05:45preglowbut mp3 seems to be heavily borked
13:05:56preglowthe bloody change i did yesterday can't have broken it
13:06:34preglowyup, it pretty much has to
13:08:17preglowsomeone please tell me how that is possible
13:08:24GaloisI put an mp3 on it, same error
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13:08:53amiconnBg3r: HAVE_R_S_WO_BL ?
13:09:07LinusNamiconn: :-)
13:09:44LinusNthis macro will only be used in an #ifdef clause on its own line, so it doesn't matter if it is long
13:10:17t0mas[07:17:09] <amiconn> We're now having some 64bit sims among the sim builds....
13:10:18t0mas[07:17:31] <amiconn> Actually only one in the last 3 rounds so far
13:10:26t0masthat's because I assed the sdl target later in your list
13:10:36t0masso it only does them when there are some left :)
13:11:34*preglow looks forward to the spurious and confusing 64 bit related warnings in the build table..
13:12:53preglowGalois: your unit actually crashes?
13:12:57preglowGalois: that doesn't happen here
13:12:59Galoisyeah, have to reset
13:13:55preglowi don't have time for this
13:15:00amiconnt0mas: That's also because the first builds take rather long. ccache has to fill up
13:15:20amiconnBtw, I don't see a problem extending the max. ccache size a bit
13:15:41amiconn(dunno whether that helps)
13:15:56Bg3rLinusN and now a name for the actual var ?
13:16:03amiconnIt seems ccache stabilised at ~300MB for all SH1 + arm target builds
13:16:15MikachuLinusN: HAVE_LSBAR_SLCKT_SKRM is shorter :)
13:16:21t0masamiconn: ccache −−help
13:16:26t0masthere is an option to show what the limit is
13:16:49t0masyou can set it higher if you want. Some people have it lower, because not all servers have that much diskspace
13:16:49LinusNBg3r: global_settings.ignore_first_button perhaps?
13:17:12Galoispreglow, I built it on my x86 machine, and it suddenly works now
13:17:24Bg3rLinusN this doesn't tell anything about the backlight ...
13:18:17Bg3rfst_key_backlight ?
13:18:23preglowGalois: how works?
13:18:30preglowdoes it play mp3s still?
13:18:33safetydanpreglow, haven't had a chance to look at it again yet, but I suspect it's outputting 'backwards' values (i.e. 1 == LONG_MIN)
13:18:42preglow'cause it sure as hell doesn't here
13:18:45Galoisoh I didn't test mp3s. It plays vorbis normally.
13:18:59preglowsafetydan: weird...
13:19:01*Galois contaminates his ipod with an mp3 to test
13:19:53tucozhow do you move up and down in the file browser on the ipods?
13:20:05tucozUp down?
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13:20:13Galoismp3 works too
13:20:14B4gderyou wheel it ;-)
13:20:15preglowbackwards on the wheel = up
13:20:19safetydanWell 0.999999993 comes out as 0x8000000e... which I think is backwards
13:20:20preglowGalois: eh...
13:20:44preglowsafetydan: if the first is the input, then the answer should be almost zero
13:20:46tucozi.e \ButtonScrollFwd and \ButtonScrollBack
13:20:53preglowand is almost zero
13:21:00preglowit's -0.00000something
13:21:08LinusNBg3r: why does the variable name have to have a reference to the backlight?
13:22:30safetydanfsin(0) == 0x00000009 at the moment...
13:22:51preglowsafetydan: heh, at least it's close
13:23:58preglowGalois: ogg works just fine here
13:24:41GaloisI only tested one mp3 file
13:24:51preglowi've tested tons
13:24:55preglowit locks up with a disk access symbol
13:24:57preglownot locks up
13:25:00preglowbut the audio stops
13:25:20Mikachudidn't you change some codec iram things?
13:25:46preglowi corrected some in playback.c
13:25:53preglowbut that just made voice ui work
13:25:55preglowand it did work
13:26:00Galoisyeah voice works fine
13:26:13preglowGalois: not here
13:26:18preglowand guess why, voice clips are mp3
13:26:54 Part austriancoder ("Kopete 0.11 :")
13:27:12preglowany other ipod people could test mp3? :/
13:27:27tucozwhat is MINUS/PLUS on the player?
13:27:27 Quit elinenbe_work ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
13:27:38*Mikachu cvs up
13:28:38MikachuPaprica: you don't need BUTTON_REL on TETRIS_DROP for ipods, the issue with restart is just that it sleeps before you quit, the drop doesn't matter
13:29:10preglowit works in cvs........
13:29:13tucozIs that BUTTON_LEFT and BUTTON_RIGHT?
13:29:17preglowplease tell me this is a gcc 4.1 bug
13:29:38Mikachupreglow: if it works in cvs what exactly did you want me to test?
13:30:04preglownothing, apparently
13:30:16Mikachuokay, done
13:30:23B4gderI can help you test nothing too
13:30:45preglowvoice ui playback doesn't work when audio is paused
13:31:45JdGordonwell.. that took way longer than nesacacery...
13:33:07markunB4gder: how can I create a sticky forum entry?
13:33:19B4gderan admin needs to stick it
13:33:20markunWe should say something about requesting new targets..
13:33:53tucozpreglow, how do you move to parent dir on the ipod?
13:34:27preglowoh f*** me!
13:34:34preglowi'm such an idiot sometimes
13:34:39amiconntucoz: yes
13:34:39preglowtucoz: press prev
13:34:51tucozOk, thanks both of you
13:36:20amiconntucoz: The simulator UI bitmaps should be a good button reference
13:36:33preglowi wonder how the volume adjustment method on ipod sits with blind people
13:36:38preglowi'd think it'd be a nightmare
13:36:38tucozamiconn, ok.
13:39:01Bg3rall ipods 3g are b/w, aren't they ?
13:39:14Bg3rare with b&w screen...
13:39:33B4gder#define LCD_DEPTH 2 /* 4 colours - 2bpp */
13:39:43B4gdersays config-ipod3g.h
13:40:03tucozHow do you play a file, or move deeper into the filetree on the ipods?
13:40:22Mikachupossibly right too, i'll check
13:40:34Bg3rB4gder yeah, 10q, the silly part is that i'm looking into this file right now ...
13:40:54Mikachutucoz: yeah, right works too
13:40:59tucozok, good
13:42:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:43:44Bg3rwhich of the color ipods have readable screen w/o backlight ?
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13:44:03Mikachui'd say the nano is hardly readable without a strong lamp
13:44:10Galoishow readable do you insist on?
13:44:15Galoisnano practically requires sunlight
13:44:18Mikachuor possibly in daylight
13:44:26Mikachui'm usually not out in sunlight :P
13:45:04B4gderyeah, in sweden you only get to do that during summer
13:45:08Bg3rreadable enough to not use the first "keypress" by default for turning on the backlight
13:45:09B4gderand we love that day
13:45:21MikachuB4gder: heh, it's a bit better here in the south
13:45:28tucozMikachu, and to get to the WPS if a file is playing is that play?
13:45:30Bg3rB4gder :D
13:45:45Mikachutucoz: yeah, from the filebrower
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13:46:53GaloisI recommend turning on the backlight automatically
13:47:18 Quit ashridah ("Leaving")
13:47:19MikachuBg3r: hm? the backlight is turned on when you touch the wheel basically
13:47:24tucozMay I ask what centering on the recorders and ondio is?
13:47:57tucozor simply, how to get to wps (if a file is playing) on the ondios and recorders
13:48:06amiconnrecorder: ON
13:48:12amiconnondio: MODE
13:48:22Bg3rMikachu s/not use/ eat
13:49:24t0masyou want it to ignore the first wheel touch?
13:50:15XavierGrso any idea how can I build the sim from the VMware image?
13:50:21B4gdert0mas: as you might've seen we no longer copy the zip files for non-bleeding files in the distributed build
13:50:56amiconnXavierGr: You need to install libsdl-dev
13:51:08amiconn..and I believe sdl requires X
13:51:21 Quit JdGordon ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
13:51:27B4gderand you'd need to run the sim from the linux VM
13:51:33XavierGroh shite!
13:51:33B4gderso you'd need to run an X server
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13:52:27amiconnB4gder: Should be possible to use ssh to tunnel X to the host and use the cygwin X server
13:52:36XavierGrthen I should download the whole Gnome Package
13:52:39amiconn(but that's rather slow)
13:52:40B4gderthat's what I meant
13:53:11XavierGrwell there is no point to it if it is slow
13:53:21B4gderbut you can run it within the linux VM entirely
13:53:24XavierGrthe vmware image is handy for its spped
13:53:25B4gderand that will be faster
13:54:05XavierGrdoes the Gnome package contains X server?
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13:54:15XavierGr(and libsdl?)
13:54:16B4gderyou don't need gnome
13:54:21XavierGryeah I know
13:54:36B4gderwell presumable gnome requires X
13:54:37XavierGrx server alone with the window management is 150 MB
13:54:46XavierGrGnome is 600MB
13:55:10amiconnWell, you need at least a window manager. That could be gnome
13:55:12B4gderwhich is why I mentioned you don't need gnome
13:55:19Zagorthe "gnome" metapackage includes lots of apps aswell. you don't need all that.
13:55:24XavierGrI guess that the image that is destributed must be updated to contain X and sdl pre-installed
13:55:28amiconnXavierGr: Do you have a flatrate?
13:55:54amiconnYes, but as long as it's flat it's just a matter of time
13:56:22t0masflat out slow?
13:56:24tucozHow do you enter the filemenu on the ondio and ipods?
13:56:38amiconntucoz: filemenu?
13:56:46Mikachuyou can compile windows binaries from linux
13:56:48tucozyes, on the irivers it's hold select
13:56:52amiconnDo you mean the context menu in the file browser?
13:57:02amiconnOndio: Hold RIGHT
13:57:08tucozIt's called filemenu in the 2.4 docs
13:57:14amiconnah ok
13:57:27amiconnstrange, didn't remember that
13:58:10B4gderits because it only existed in the file browser back then
13:58:16B4gderso it wasn't really a context menu
13:58:47XavierGrah I was wrong Gnome is 200MB
13:58:48tucozMikachu, how do you enter the context menu in the filebrowser on the ipods?
13:58:54XavierGr600MB when unpackaged
13:59:00Mikachuhold select
13:59:23B4gderXavierGr: but as Zagor said, you get about 300MB of bonus crap you can remove again
13:59:40B4gderlike all sorts of apps you won't use
13:59:44amiconnThere's a gnome-core package that excludes many apps
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14:00:47XavierGrI hope that the package is saved somewhere in the Virtual DIsk. I can't afford to download all these again.
14:01:03XavierGrand I will install zip cvs utils and patch that it is missing
14:01:24XavierGrthe image definitely must be updated. No sim no fun.
14:01:36B4gderwith sim it grows a lot
14:02:05tucozMikachu, menu to enter the main menu?
14:02:07B4gderadding X and sdl will no doubt increase its size by many megabytes
14:02:08XavierGryes but without the sim it is not a complete developer board. Many users will be daunted.
14:02:13Mikachutucoz: yes
14:02:18XavierGrCygwin will still be needed
14:02:30B4gdercygwin is not a full package either
14:02:36B4gderyou install the packages you want
14:02:42Zagorwe can offer both versions
14:02:43B4gderand so can you with the vmware one
14:03:03XavierGryes but it is complete for someone that folows the wiki instructions
14:03:04tucozB4gder, on the X5, how do you enter the main menu?
14:03:17B4gdertucoz: long press on PLAY
14:03:33B4gdershort press resumes
14:04:10B4gderbut don't bother too much with x5 details yet
14:04:19B4gderthey may need to be moved around a bit
14:04:41B4gderthis setup was made "blindly" to get things to build
14:05:16tucozno, I do not care _that_ much. I just enter what is needed to make the manual compile for all the targets
14:05:22B4gderah, ok
14:07:34 Quit linuxstb ("Leaving")
14:09:23tucozHow do you perform paged browsing on the ondio and ipods?
14:09:34Mikachuyou don't
14:09:36Mikachui think
14:10:05Mikachufor ipods it should presumably not be needed with wheel 'acceleration'
14:10:12tucozah, I see
14:10:29tucozamiconn, on the ondio then? (paged browsing)
14:10:52tucozand maybe x5 as well
14:11:08Bg3rLinusN btw, why not move the rockbox.iriver to the .rockbox dir for the release ?
14:11:18tucoznevermind about the x5. I put a n/a there for now
14:11:26B4gderI don't know for x5
14:11:31LinusNBg3r: good idea
14:11:33tucozn/a :)
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14:17:49austriancoderit looks like the tlv320 doesn't support settings like bass, ...
14:18:34preglow"oh no"
14:19:16austriancoderi look at the datasheet, but at the moment i can find anything
14:19:23preglowshould we add some simple eq shelving filters to emulate it, though?
14:19:42preglowor should we instead just ask people to use the full eq?
14:20:33austriancoderdont know what is the best way...
14:20:39preglowmaking some simple first order shelving filters shouldn't be hard
14:20:46preglowas a matter of fact, i need to do it anyway, for the new crossfeed
14:21:12Bg3rokay, iirc amiconn said, that only ondios don't have backlight... the user_settings struct has all backlight vars on it too (they're not ifdef-ed). However, many plugins use them directly (without checking ifdef CONFIG_BACKLIGHT).
14:21:26Bg3rs/on it/on them
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14:22:59tucozHow do you play a file or move deeper into the filetree on the ondios?
14:23:05Bg3rshould i ifdef them both in the struct and in all plugins using the vars, or should i leave them as is
14:23:08*preglow fetches his sedra&smith book
14:23:50austriancoderhow can i access output of DEBUGF calls?
14:23:57preglowsimulator or gdb stub
14:25:20B4gderor convert them to logf() calls and view/dump the logf buffer
14:25:42austriancoderB4gder: that sounds much better.. will try it
14:26:02preglowB4gder: any reason we haven't converted debugfs to logfs?
14:26:17B4gderI can't think of any good reason
14:26:32preglowme neither
14:26:34preglowand while we're at it
14:26:43preglowconvert LOGF macro to take a struct pointer as a parameter'
14:26:52preglowso we don't need to keep both rb and ci variables
14:27:09preglowimplicitly assuming a variable name is nastiness anyway
14:29:00preglowany of you electronics people got the s-domain transfer function for first order shelving filters lying around?
14:29:31merbananshelving filters ?
14:30:28merbanannever heard of shelving filters ?
14:30:43preglowyou know, like ordinary high/lowpass filters, just that they don't cut towards 0
14:31:05preglow0db at DC then shelving towards -12db at higher freqs
14:31:13austriancoderB4gder: must i build rockbox in Debug mode, or can i use Normal mode?
14:31:33B4gderyou must enable logf
14:31:33merbananpreglow: whay do you need them in the s domain ?
14:31:38B4gderin the devel option in configure
14:31:43preglowmerbanan: so i can transform them to the z-domain
14:32:36merbananpreglow: so what you actually need is a first order digital IIR filter ?
14:32:44preglowmerbanan: yup
14:32:53preglowmerbanan: i assume that's what the codec chips use, at least
14:33:27preglowmerbanan: the way to get good parameterisable digital filters is usually to start with an analogue one
14:34:20preglowi believe i've found what i need
14:36:31merbananpreglow: I always cheated with matlab when I needed filters
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14:37:01preglowmerbanan: can't do that here :/
14:37:09austriancoderB4gder: i cant find logf in developer menu in rockbox
14:37:10preglowneed to design them from scratch
14:37:42B4gderin configure, not rockbox
14:37:57austriancoderah okay
14:38:02merbananpreglow: what is the intended use of the filters ?
14:38:16austriancoderB4gder: found it
14:39:51preglowmerbanan: equalisation
14:40:03preglowmerbanan: or in this case, just good old bass and treble boost
14:41:55merbananok, then I'm of no help :) never did something like that, but the web must be full of that kind of info
14:42:03*austriancoder fixes logfdisp.c for x5
14:42:03preglowi've got it nailed anyway
14:42:11preglowfound the transfer function i need in my electronics book
14:42:32merbananpreglow: so retro with books :)
14:42:33Mikachupreglow: if someone had nothing better to do, would it be possible to link the backlight to the uv meters?
14:42:33preglowjust need the z transform it
14:42:43preglowMikachu: i believe someone's already done it
14:42:53Mikachufor playback too?
14:42:54B4gderthere once was such a patch at least
14:43:06B4gderfor playback, yes
14:43:08preglowof course it's possible
14:43:15preglowyou've got the brightness control
14:43:17Mikachuwell, the uv meters look a bit laggy
14:43:19preglowjust pulse it like you want
14:43:22Bg3rpreglow what are you working on atm?
14:43:31Mikachui meant if it's possible to do it nicely without being steppy
14:44:02preglowBg3r: real work, i'm just taking a break to find out how to design shelving filters for the new crossfeed (and possible bass and treble boost for the units that don't have that in hardware)
14:44:22preglowMikachu: you'd need to filter the control signal before using it to control the backlight, but sure
14:44:28preglowMikachu: i imagine it'd work just nice
14:44:47preglowa simple moving average would probably do very well
14:44:56Mikachuor you could just run with a really low battery and the loud sound would lower the voltage on the backlight
14:45:35austriancodersemms dsp.c is broken for x5: dsp.c:531: error: can't find a register in class `ADDR_REGS' while reloading `asm'
14:45:42austriancoderwhat workaround should i do?
14:46:44Bg3rto the gcc
14:46:57preglowargh, fuck it
14:46:59Bg3ror use the C ver of the function
14:47:03preglowi'm hereby moving that to dsp_cf.S
14:47:05preglowany protests
14:47:11preglow? <-
14:47:37B4gdernone here
14:47:47Bg3rjust do it (tm)
14:47:55safetydanwoo! my cordic sincos seems towrk
14:48:00preglowsafetydan: !
14:48:03safetydanwork even
14:48:10safetydanwell it doesn't sound like a bag of shit anyway :)
14:48:19austriancoderokay... will use the C Version
14:48:33safetydanHaven't had a chance to check the effect on the accuracy of the peak filter coef calculations yet
14:49:35preglowsafetydan: it should be better by far
14:51:55 Quit _FireFly_ ("Leaving")
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14:53:35safetydanpreglow, I have to do some other things right now, but here's a patch if you want to look
14:55:06austriancoderhow should i redefine this: #if defined(CPU_COLDFIRE) && !defined(SIMULATOR).. its in dsp.c 524
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14:55:32austriancoderfor x5
14:55:39B4gderx5 is coldfire
14:55:52austriancoderi know
14:56:23austriancoderbut the part defined in the #if defined(CPU_COLDFIRE) && !defined(SIMULATOR) dosn't compile for me
14:56:51austriancoderdsp.c:531: error: can't find a register in class `ADDR_REGS' while reloading `asm'
14:56:55B4gderwell that isn't because of the ifdefs
14:57:00austriancodermaybe its my fault.. dont know
14:57:36B4gderdo you use -fomit-frame-pointer ?
14:58:02B4gderthe problem is enabled with the logf build I believe
14:58:02preglowsafetydan: will try
14:58:40Bg3raustriancoder just change the #if so that part won't compile
14:59:16preglowehh, line 52, dsp.c
14:59:29preglowlooks like that define isn't as according to the comment at all...
14:59:45*B4gder has to dash
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15:00:02austriancoderi have added -fomit-frame-pointer to gcc and it compiles now
15:03:17austriancoderLinusN: tlv320_write_reg is broken.. logf told it me
15:03:46LinusNhardly surprising, since it hasn't been tested
15:09:35*preglow sorely wants a coldfire compiler for his dev box...
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15:12:19XavierGrhow do I initialize the sim in linux?
15:12:33Bg3rXavierGr "initialize"??
15:12:43preglowyou run it
15:13:02lamedhello everyone!
15:13:09XavierGrwow you should see that!
15:13:09lamedcan someone please help me out with this?
15:13:18merbananpreglow: how was it, did the coldfire support 32*32 >>32 muls ?
15:13:31lamedi'm trying to 'make zip' using 3.14 devkit... but i can't.
15:14:02XavierGrcomplete mess of the sim
15:14:13XavierGrit compiled cleanly but linux crashed
15:15:08 Quit Rondom (No route to host)
15:15:14XavierGrI suppose that I can't take the binary and run it on windows right?
15:16:07tucozlamed, I don't think the devkit is what you should use anyway
15:16:32lostlogicpreglow: voice ui still crash ipod during playback?
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15:17:44tucozwhat is the recommended thing to use for development on windows?
15:17:57lamedtucoz: i've been using it forever... but only at the last time i'm having a few problems. could you take a look at that link? is it perl that's broken?
15:18:43tucozlamed, I have no idea what is wrong. I have never used the devkit.
15:20:12lostlogicI think the new vmware image is probably better than the devkit, although I've never used either one
15:20:16tucozThere are other, better options these days. 1) Cygwin packages of all the compilers 2) a virtual machine for use with vmware player
15:22:43 Quit tucoz ("Leaving")
15:23:02lamedtucoz: interesting,.. i wasn't aware of vmware at all. but for now it's way more complex to have it installed.
15:23:09lamed(darn he's out)
15:23:13austriancoderx5: i want to view a jpeg i see the rockbox logo
15:23:25lamedcan someone take a look why can't i make zip for some reason?
15:23:26 Quit Aditya ("Trillian (")
15:24:37LinusNlamed: do yourself a favor and drop the devkit'
15:24:50preglowmerbanan: it supports 64 bit muls, yes
15:24:53preglowlostlogic: works now
15:25:35austriancoderbye all
15:25:39 Part austriancoder ("Kopete 0.11 :")
15:25:45lostlogicpreglow: damn, that means my attempted correction of codec swapping broke it :-P
15:26:35lamedlinusn: i'm just trying to keep my patches up to date now with recent cvs activities... I am sufffering from a sever lack of pcs where i'm at. so i'm just trying to get a nice working zipfile. could you pretty please help me out..?
15:27:37LinusNlamed: i have no idea how to fix the errors in your log
15:27:53lamedthen i am doomed.
15:28:07preglowlostlogic: how correct?
15:31:08lostlogicpreglow: the implementation currently used is one of those places where the philosophy of throwing around locks and praying was used instead of a correct use of semaphore logic to ensure a codec switch
15:31:21lostlogicpreglow: and I'm in the process of working on all such places in the swcodec playback
15:31:43preglowlostlogic: i am incredible relieved to hear that
15:32:11*preglow nominates lostlogic for sainthood
15:32:45preglowhave anyone tested voice on the 5g?
15:32:53preglowi can't imagine why it wouldn't work, but yeah
15:33:44lostlogicpreglow: I hadn't tested it until after changing the swap codec, I'll do that later... once I at least make an appearance at work.
15:33:52lostlogicpreglow: it worked fine w/o playback though.
15:36:22preglowahh, yes, the work thing
15:36:25preglowi need to get back to that
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15:37:10XavierGrlamed you must try the VMware image, though you will have a hard time running the sim. But you can compile very fast normal firmware
15:37:55lamedxaviergr: i haven't slept for days... i'm just trying to get a working fw...
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15:38:12Mikachuand you probably won't with the devkit
15:38:25preglownow if i just had some semblance of self control
15:39:21XavierGrlamed: you haven't slept for days trying to compile?
15:40:05XavierGranyway if you have a fast internet connection and you want a firmware ASAP, follow the instruction on the VMware imsage wiki page.
15:40:19Mikachulamed: what target do you want?
15:41:19lamednah, i was just back from the army few hours ago. since then i had to fix a few bugs, like having some electric shorts and internet failiure...
15:41:34lamedmikachu: i'm trying to build with a bundle of my own patches, thanks :)
15:41:52Mikachupatches can be sent
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15:42:15Mikachubadabing badaboom, firmware
15:42:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:43:18lamedxaviergr: i at least hope compile time is much faster :/
15:43:49lamedright now i'm reinstalling perl and zip
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15:44:11lamedit will probably f#$%k everything right up
15:46:27Bg3rlamed what patches ?
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15:47:42Jungti1234hi all
15:49:07lamedplaylist catalog / crossfade enabled on manual track change / i'm not sure what else. i think some changes to brickmania & star are applied.
15:49:17lamedit... looks like it's working!
15:49:33tucozlamed, are you eli?
15:49:57lamedyes... finally!
15:50:00lamedtucoz: nope
15:50:06 Quit safetydan ("Leaving")
15:51:52preglowsafetydan: your fsincos isn't 64 bit safe :-)
15:52:04 Quit Spida (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:52:06lamedreinstalling perl did it.
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16:02:39*preglow hands safetydan the sweet, sweet cookie of success
16:03:18tucozyum, that sounds tasty
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16:06:10BHSPitLappymy mouth is watering.
16:06:44Mikachupreglow: can't you just use libm in the sim?
16:07:08preglowMikachu: wouldn't that defeat, say, the entire point?
16:07:40preglowi want to test his trig functions, not libms :-)
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16:08:18amiconntucoz: No paged browsing on Ondio. For one there are too few buttons. Then it's also not strictly necessary, since there can't be that many files on an Ondio
16:08:58safetydanWoo! Cookies!
16:09:09lamedare you guys aware you can still select a song from the active playlist and aburptly and the played track?
16:09:10tucozamiconn, ok. thanks
16:09:17safetydanI guess I need to use int32t and uint32t then?
16:09:22preglowsafetydan: just tested 60hz, seems to work fine
16:09:28preglowsafetydan: the coefs differ in only a couple of bits
16:09:46Jungti1234heh... bye all
16:10:02preglowsafetydan: and in a lot of cases, they are 100% correct
16:10:05preglownot a bit wrong
16:10:09preglowwhich is more than i would have expected
16:10:10amiconntucoz: Up & Down to move through file lists, Right to enter a dir or play a file, Left to go back one level
16:10:28preglowsafetydan: it almost made med suspicous...
16:10:28tucozamiconn, did you look at my changes?
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16:11:02preglowsafetydan: even 20hz is balls on accurate
16:11:07Mikachusince select and next do the same thing in filebrowser on ipods, couldn't one of them be context menu instead?
16:11:24Mikachuor do you want to support both ipodders coming to rockbox and rockboxers coming to ipod?
16:11:39safetydanWell, I would hope the cordic stuff worked since it's been around since 1952 :)
16:11:55safetydanMy only other concern was speed
16:12:01preglowoh, to hell with speed
16:12:05preglowas long as it's accurate
16:12:31preglowi don't think it's very slow anyway
16:14:40Mikachuwhat code is it for again, eq?
16:14:40tucozamiconn, I'll change them now
16:14:42safetydanpreglow, so commit?
16:14:42safetydanHrm... web client is teh suck.
16:14:42tucozamiconn, how do you go to the wps if a file is playing?
16:14:42amiconnShort Mode
16:14:43preglowsafetydan: btw, the atan table entries, were they rounded before they were saved as ints?
16:14:43tucozok, thanks
16:14:43amiconnSame for going back to the browser
16:14:51 Quit quobl (Remote closed the connection)
16:15:40preglowsafetydan: you or me?
16:15:50 Quit markun (
16:15:50preglowsafetydan: i was planning on doing a target test first, though
16:15:54*Kyomi|off wonders when MIDI will be able to run and the iRiver sound page will be updated
16:16:05preglowKyomi|off: don't expect midi for a while
16:16:14safetydanno, no rounding
16:16:21 Quit damaki_ (Remote closed the connection)
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16:16:43KyomiBut didn't a guy work on it for that Doom thing>
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16:17:07safetydanAh yes, target test is probably a good idea.
16:17:07preglowsafetydan: you expect that might have an impact?
16:17:17safetydanYou can commit if you want. I won't be in Linux for a while
16:17:28 Quit damaki_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:17:40CassandraNow everyone can always be in Linux thanks to the VMware image. ;)
16:17:45preglowsafetydan: okeydoke
16:17:49safetydanRounding? I'm not sure. I can't imagine it will have a large effect
16:18:02preglowsafetydan: it had a measurable effect on the first cordic code you did
16:18:20Cassandrabtw, winamp can convert midi files to mp3.
16:18:34Cassandra(Although it has to play them all to do it.)
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16:19:31dproCassandra: timidity does just that (to wave, you take it from there ;)
16:20:11dproCassandra: ah and I just see it supports directly outputting to ogg
16:20:18safetydanpreglow: measurable in what way? Better precision or speed?
16:20:33safetydanI can obviously redo the table generation if it will be better to round
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16:21:00Cassandradpro: Good to know.
16:21:34KyomiCassandra: But... you dont get the nostalgic feeling of MIDI though :(
16:21:50KyomiWhich is exactly why I wont convert my SID/tracker files :P
16:22:01KyomiAlthough... SIDs need to end... eventually ^^;
16:23:33CassandraWow. Wired manage to get three things wrong about Rockbox in two sentences.
16:23:51 Quit tianjing (Remote closed the connection)
16:24:02Mikachutimidity doesn't support soundfonts i think though
16:24:04preglowsafetydan: precision
16:24:04preglowsafetydan: we'll try it later, i'll just go ahead and commit it
16:24:04preglowi can bloody hear it's better
16:24:05DBUGEnqueued KICK preglow
16:24:05preglow160kbps mp3 and 5 eq band, and the ipod struggles as hell...
16:24:05preglowa sad sight
16:24:16dproMikachu: it does
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16:24:30Mikachui haven't looked at it in many years :)
16:25:00preglowCassandra: which?
16:25:56 Quit safetydan ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
16:26:10tucozpreglow, happy now? I moved the wps-tags and config file options to the appendix
16:26:37preglowi was about to comment on that
16:26:40Mikachu probably
16:27:22MikachuCassandra: in their defense, those two sentences are very long :P
16:28:21preglowlooks very nice
16:28:22tucozwell, the options need some separation in terms of what kind of option they represent
16:28:22tucozThat table is huge
16:29:32Cassandratucoz: But that's where they used to be.
16:29:42Mikachutucoz: is the picture on the frontpage supposed to only say box?
16:30:06tucozCassandra, really? Not from the writer2latex output
16:30:17CassandraHas Rockbox been in development for 4 or 5 years. I thought it was five, but the mailing list has only been operational for 4 and a bit.
16:30:40tucozCassandra, anyway they are back where they belong now
16:30:48Cassandratucoz: Where did it put them? Possibly they were in Advanced Topics.
16:31:08tucozyes, that's where they were
16:31:14Cassandra(My memory may be crapping out on me.)
16:31:29CassandraThey're better in the Appendices anyway. Good call.
16:31:42tucozThat's preglows idea
16:33:26preglowhurray for me! hurray for preglow!
16:33:39preglowanyway, in my defense it should be said that mp3 playback is just dog slow in itself on ipod
16:33:42CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
16:33:42*tucoz crowns preglow king for today
16:33:43Mikachuhurray for the norwegian guy
16:33:55preglowno wait, that's not in my defense at all :/
16:34:05tucoztoo late
16:34:18tucozit's already logged
16:34:38preglowogg is faster than mp3
16:37:34lostlogicwhere how is ogg faster than mp3?
16:37:39*Cassandra posts corrections to the wired article.
16:37:55preglowlostlogic: on ipod
16:38:07Cassandralostlogic: It has more jam in it, therefore less friction, therefore faster.
16:38:09preglowvorbis decodes faster than mp3 at 192kbps
16:38:20lostlogicpreglow: whack
16:38:33Kyomipreglow: I <3 my music at 192kbps
16:38:47Mikachui prefer vbr
16:38:55KyomiI'd try to convert them all if not for the fact I'm lzy
16:39:32Zagorthat's one weird blurb. ha can't have read much of the site before writing it.
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16:40:33CassandraHmm. I think Wired ate my comment.
16:41:35tucozHow do you move around in the vkeyboard on ipod?
16:41:42webguest60I would like to create a .m3u of all my albums, I have tried with these switches dir /b/ad >All-Albums.m3u no joy, any ideas ?
16:42:13Cassandrawebguest60, do it within Rockbox.
16:42:40 Quit webguest60 (Client Quit)
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16:42:41CassandraWhat player do you use?
16:43:04tucozHow do you move around in the vkeyboard on ondio?
16:43:11 Quit webguest60 (Client Quit)
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16:44:48webguest46oops, Cassandra, Rbox creates a list of all individual tracks, not indivudual albums
16:44:52CassandraWith difficulty, I guess. Amiconn would know.
16:45:09CassandraOh, sorry.
16:45:17tucozprobably. I'll just fix the rest, and leave the ondio assignments wrong for now
16:45:25Mikachuyou can only have files in a playlist...
16:45:35Zagorwebguest46: playlists must include files, not directories
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16:45:58tucoza playlist is simply a collection of links to files
16:46:03webguest46hmm, so no way of creating a playlist for albums only ?
16:46:10CassandraI'm somewhat confused as to why you'd do that if you had an album per directory.
16:46:23CassandraJust go to the directory and play the first file.
16:46:24webguest46for album shuffle playback
16:46:41CassandraTurn on shuffle before you play the first file in that case.
16:46:54Mikachuhe wants to play tracks in one album in order, but select which album randomly
16:47:01webguest46no cassandra, I would like random albums not randon tracks
16:47:09CassandraOh, right. Duh. Excuse me.
16:47:18Mikachuwhich i think you can't currently
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16:47:35CassandraCertainly not from within Rockbox.
16:47:48webguest46there must be a way, I keep digging
16:48:30Mikachuyou'll have to dig all the way to a C tutorial
16:48:48tucozI guess it's doable with a perl script
16:49:14webguest46I think some tagging programs have the ability, maybe even foobar
16:49:27tucozgather directories in random order, and add the files from within the directory to a playlist
16:49:49Mikachusure, but you get the same random order every time
16:50:00webguest46or I manually append .m3u to each files name :)
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16:50:25Mikachuyou can't have .m3u files in a playlist currently
16:50:34Mikachuand even if you could, they would still be loaded into a linear playlist
16:50:39Mikachuunless you moved a lot of stuff around
16:50:47*webguest46 sighs
16:50:48Mikachui think i saw a patch regarding this
16:50:52t0masno, that m3u trick might be the solution
16:50:59t0masthere is a patch to allow sub playlists iirc
16:51:08t0masyou can add the playlist from every dir to 1 big list
16:51:18t0masthen set that big list to play shuffeled
16:51:24Mikachui meant current cvs only
16:51:48webguest46t0mas, thats what I was thinking, it should work
16:52:21*webguest46 doesn't relish the thought of renaming 600 files manually
16:52:49Mikachuwhy would you even get the idea to do that manually?
16:53:09webguest46I'll give you one guess :>
16:53:20lostlogicpreglow: voice on 5g works as well as on H3x0 until I break it.
16:54:38webguest46thanks for the info,
16:54:41 Part webguest46
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16:56:11amiconntucoz: Using the vkeyboard on Ondio is easy to do one handed. It uses a mode concept.
16:56:24amiconnYou move around the picker area with Left/Right/Up/Down.
16:56:50amiconnYou can move across the left & right borders to get to the previous / next page.
16:57:07 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
16:57:18amiconnA letter is selected with Mode
16:57:31amiconnLong Mode accepts, Off aborts
16:57:42preglowlostlogic: great, thanks
16:57:56preglowlostlogic: i'm helping a blind guy with a 5g to make it work, and just wanted to make sure it actually works :)
16:58:16amiconnIf you move out of the picker area with Up or Down, you go to line edit mode. There you can move left & right with Left & Right.
16:58:19tucozamiconn, ok. thanks. I'll try to fit that in now.
16:58:41amiconnMode deletes the char left to the cursor. Long Mode is accept, as always.
16:58:51amiconnUp or Down brings you back to the picker
16:59:03tucozI see
16:59:07 Quit thegeek ("( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )")
16:59:26amiconnBtw, if you wanna try to get a better feeling how it actually works, you could build some sims
16:59:53tucozamiconn, I have an ondio sim. I am just trying to get the key-action tables to be somewhat up to dat
17:00:00CassandraI'd strongly advise having a sim for every platform built.
17:00:10CassandraI certainly did when doing manual updates.
17:00:31tucozIf something is wrong, it'll be easier to change that after my changes
17:01:22tucozCassandra, you were lucky. You only had like 3 simulators. Nowadays, it's a gazillion simulators
17:01:41CassandraHey, I didn't say it was easy, did I?
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17:01:54CassandraScreenshots are also a bitch.
17:02:10*tucoz tried to make a reference to a famous monty python scene
17:02:21CassandraI'd advise concentrating on the 3.0 release platforms for now.
17:02:26CassandraAh, right.
17:02:27tucozCassandra, yes
17:02:34CassandraYou need to use "when I was a lad" more.
17:02:41vu2097Is voice recording planned (or done?) for ipod 4G?
17:03:14preglowplanned, yes, done, not by far
17:03:16preglowit's not even begun
17:03:43vu2097Thanks! I've been a RockBox user for less than a day but I love it!
17:04:34CassandraGlad you like it.
17:04:50tucozI'll try and finish the Rockbox Interface today. So that people can start adding/changing what's wrong there
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17:18:00Cassandratucoz: what word have you been using as a generic word for "digital audio player" - I used to use "Jukebox" but I think that might have changed.
17:18:31tucozCassandra, I defined a \dap macro in each of the platform files.
17:19:43tucozIt's then easy to change that to whatever you want. For now all those are changed to 'player' now, but the ipods could be called 'Ipod' if that feels natural
17:21:09CassandraDo you have \daps too?
17:21:50tucozCassandra, no
17:22:02CassandraMight be an idea.
17:22:03Nico_PZagor: i've changed my patch back to using a bool value...
17:22:13Nico_Pwould you have any ideas for the setting name ?
17:22:22Nico_Pand the variables also
17:22:37tucozCassandra, please change anything if you come to think of something
17:23:20tucozBut not chapter rockbox_interface. I work on that now
17:25:44preglowlostlogic: i've forgotten already, did you make arm profiling work?
17:25:58lostlogicpreglow: profiling yes, profile results parsing, no
17:26:11preglowriight, there was that
17:26:15preglowany hints in case i want to look at it?
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17:26:20preglowor is it just that the format changed?
17:26:29 Quit webguest43 (Client Quit)
17:26:30lostlogicpreglow: just that you only need the .map file on arm, not the objects
17:26:37Cassandratucoz: I'll have a look at some point.
17:26:39lostlogicso it'll be a lot easier than my coldfire
17:26:48CassandraFeeling quite tired/ill at the moment.
17:27:00preglowlostlogic: cool
17:27:10CassandraBut I've copied the relevant parts of the style guildelines onto the wiki.
17:27:12preglowlostlogic: i'm going to turn my attention to libmad again soon, so'll have need of some profiling
17:27:19lostlogicpreglow: cool
17:27:26CassandraSome of them might not apply any more in which case you should edit them.
17:27:37lostlogicyou'll find me knee deep in playback.c if you are looking for me :-P
17:28:09 Join qwm_ [0] (
17:28:59*preglow is knee deep in filter algebra...
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17:30:27lostlogict0mas: do you control the list of build servers?
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17:39:40preglowwe really bloody need some wheel acceleartion
17:40:18lostlogicpreglow: yes, but the limit on wheel speed is how fast the application can handle events, not how fast they are sent
17:40:49lostlogicthe wheel events already include how large of a delta caused them, so applications could be recoded to ask for button events and then move multiple lines in one event if the delta is large
17:41:13dproguys what's the preferred way to pause/unpause (and is there a way to really pause on the spot, not this fade out and in again) .. that's terrible for dj mode ;)
17:41:37preglowlostlogic: is that so
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17:42:03lostlogicpreglow: yah, even reducing the delta required to tick to 1 doesn't speed it up at all in lists −− volume control it speeds up a bit and bejewled a bit...
17:42:23preglowbut yeah, i know the limit is the handlinmg
17:42:28preglowthat's basically what i was talking about
17:42:34preglowto adjust the eq now, you have to scroll for ages
17:42:36Mikachudpro: you can disable fadein/out somewher, i don't have it on
17:42:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:42:47preglowwith acceleration you can scroll to destination faster, hence leading to fewer events
17:42:58preglowprobably not resulting in an empty pcm buffer
17:43:20Mikachuthat's what requires app support
17:43:36lostlogicpreglow: yah, that would require either application level handling, or additional scroll events to identify larger scrolls, either of which are not friendly, IMO
17:43:37 Quit DreamTactix291 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:43:51preglowlostlogic: i think application level handling is the better, though
17:44:02dpromikachu: I'm hacking on your pitch screen atm which function would I call to pause from the pitch screen ?
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17:44:05Mikachuwon't that gigabeat thing have analogue scrolling control too?
17:44:12preglowMikachu: yeah
17:44:16preglowMikachu: but in a slightly different way
17:44:21Mikachudpro: it's not my pitch screen, i only added the call to a menu entry...
17:44:24preglowMikachu: for one, i don't know how sensitive it is
17:44:36preglowi think it's heaps less sensitive than the ipod click wheel
17:44:44lostlogicso SOMEONE should implement button_get_event and button_get_event_w_tmo and use them with the scroll data to do stuff, or change button_get to save the event data and make it available through an additional call if the application wants it
17:44:46preglowwoo, peaking filters
17:45:02preglowehh, shelving filters
17:45:08Mikachupoking filters
17:45:45preglowoctave is actually rather good
17:45:50preglowi wish the gnuplot interface did more
17:48:49lostlogicbagh, why doesn't replaygain seem to be doing anything :-\
17:52:01preglowlostlogic: keep in mind it needs the tag to work
17:53:01lostlogicpreglow: I have tags on every file on my player now
17:53:16lostlogicpreglow: and preamp as low as it goes didn't do anythign audible
17:55:13preglowthen it should do something :>
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17:56:34lostlogicif only we had a glow, or a postglow around who was less useless!.
17:56:49tucozCassandra, sorry. my network connection died
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17:57:53KyomiBack :)
17:58:02tucozI'll look at the guidelines later on
17:58:22preglowlostlogic: a guy named postglow did use to enter here from time to time and hang eerily around until he left suddenly...
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17:58:30preglowperhaps he was less useless but he didn't advertise it
17:58:42Mikachuif he didn't do anything he was definitely useless
17:59:40Mikachui'm a bit confused
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17:59:55Mikachuwhat's the difference between "Insert", "Insert next" and "Insert last"?
18:00:02Mikachuor rather, what does "Insert" do?
18:00:02preglowmy hypothesis was that he was my evil twin
18:00:13preglowand if that somehow makes him my opposite, then he must have been useful
18:00:22preglowMikachu: insert inserts a song into a playlist
18:00:29preglowMikachu: insert last inserts at the end of it
18:00:39preglowMikachu: insert inserts where you're currently at
18:00:43preglowMikachu: god knows what insert next does
18:00:53Mikachui thought insert next inserted after the current song
18:00:53 Quit Ian_Locke (Client Quit)
18:01:01Mikachubut it would seem like insert next and insert do the same thing
18:01:04preglowwhere does insert insert then?
18:01:22lostlogicI've often pondered same.
18:01:30*preglow checks the manual
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18:01:42Mikachu"Insert" inserts after the current song
18:01:42lostlogicpreglow: ... the ... what?
18:02:02ender`what's the difference between Insert and Queue next then?
18:02:24lostlogicender`: queue doesn't change the playlist
18:02:44lostlogicender`: insert does
18:02:44lostlogicif I have any clue what I'm talking about
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18:02:44Mikachuand "Insert next" does too...
18:02:57Mikachuso "" and " next" seems to be no difference
18:02:57lostlogicyes, I've never figured out insert next vs. insert.
18:02:57preglowahh, right
18:02:58Mikachuso maybe they should be removed?
18:03:08preglowinsert inserts at the end of the insertion list..........
18:03:08preglowinsert next disregards it
18:03:08ender`btw, would it be possible to add a shortcut for Queue (or Queue next), similarly to how the iriver original firmware had?
18:03:08Nico_P"insert next" inserts after the current playing song. "insert" inserts after the last inserted song
18:03:16Mikachupreglow: so if i insert many things, they will be in the "correct" order?
18:03:18preglowthis is convoluted
18:03:19Mikachui see
18:03:26Mikachuthat's not easy to figure out, but useful
18:03:38Nico_Pyes. very useful
18:03:38preglowhandy, indeed
18:03:55preglowbut i think insert next might be a bit superfluous
18:03:55amiconnMikachu: That's what manuals are for
18:04:10*safetydan does the "I got code comitted" dance
18:04:13Nico_Ppreglow: why ?
18:04:16safetydanoh wait... I could have done that...
18:04:16Mikachuamiconn: manuals should never be needed :)
18:04:19safetydanthanks preglow
18:04:27preglowsafetydan: haha, no problem
18:04:36preglowyou're welcome and all
18:04:46safetydannow to dig up the misticriver threads where people were complaining about the accuracy
18:04:55preglowyour coding style is really nice, btw
18:05:01preglowminus a couple of small things, it's exactly like mine :-)
18:05:27lostlogicI love how with coding style nice => same as mine (with the exception of that which is clearly bad)
18:05:32preglowsafetydan: btw, it's not 64 bit safe, can you see where?
18:05:35preglowsafetydan: 'cause i can't
18:06:19preglowit worked when i forced a couple of ints
18:06:31safetydanerr... I was about to say I couldn't see anything obviously wrong for 64bitness
18:06:41preglowsafetydan: does it depend on wrapping anywhere
18:06:44vu2097Speaking of insert/queue... I accidentally saw that menu once, how to get there on ipod?
18:06:57preglowvu2097: keep select pressed
18:06:57Mikachuhold select on a song/dir
18:07:29Mikachuwould maybe be more logical with long press on menu, since it opens a... menu
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18:07:37safetydanpreglow, it might since it's basically oscillating a vector around a point, try changing the x,x1, y, y1 declarations to be int32t
18:07:40Nico_Ppreglow: i don't see how "insert next" is superfluous...
18:07:46preglowsafetydan: it works then
18:08:09Mikachuit could be "Insert after current" if it wasn't too long
18:08:11preglowNico_P: not superfluous, exactly, but it's not the option you'd use the most, exactly
18:08:27Mikachuhow long does it keep track of where the last inserted song is?
18:08:32preglowNico_P: it's mostly an option for when you thought you had planned your playlist nicely, but then suddenly see something you'd rather hear, heh
18:08:50Nico_Pyes i see what you mean
18:09:02preglowsafetydan: looks like the z variables are the one to blame
18:09:17Mikachuif i listen to music for an hour and then do an insert, i would expect it to go after the current song, not after the last inserted
18:09:34crashdMikachu: use insert next then
18:09:42Mikachusure, but if it was removed
18:09:47crashdheh O.o
18:10:03KyomiI have a question for you all about wps'
18:10:13Mikachuwould it be too stupid to rename "Insert" to "Smart insert" ?
18:10:14preglowsafetydan: nah, it's in the x and y ones
18:10:15KyomiI noticed a problem before I went to class
18:10:27preglowMikachu: i think something like that might work, yes
18:10:40Mikachuthat would make you at least suspect it did something useful
18:10:47preglowMikachu: it implies it does more than just insert, while the current name implies a mere fixed point insert
18:10:52KyomiIf you have shuffle off and a wps that that shows the next song info, it'll just sit there saying "Loading..." if the next song is in another directory
18:10:59KyomiIs there a way to fix that?
18:11:02safetydanpreglow, it should be in the x,y ones as I spent a lot of effort getting z to work unsigned
18:11:13preglowsafetydan: x = -x
18:11:18preglowsafetydan: i bet that's the bugger
18:11:25preglowsafetydan: that'll sign extend all the way up to 64 bits
18:11:52preglowsafetydan: anyway, i'll deal with it
18:11:53safetydanwell easy enough to fix
18:12:17safetydannext stop on the eq train, pre-amp
18:12:17preglowlostlogic: does that last commit of your allow voice ui while paused?
18:12:21preglowsafetydan: amen
18:12:23lostlogicpreglow: no
18:12:34*Kyomi knows her problem isn't as important though :(
18:12:38lostlogicpreglow: taht turns out to be a rather complex problem, and will nto be solved for 3.0
18:12:53preglowKyomi: will be a bit tricky, that
18:12:55lostlogicKyomi: there is not currently a solution to that with directory mode
18:13:16preglowlostlogic: wow, complex
18:13:21KyomiI have it set to auto change directory though
18:13:25preglowlostlogic: sounds like a well-thought out design :-)
18:13:31lostlogicpreglow: the problem with voice UI while paused is where to buffer the voice playback data
18:13:39KyomiIs that the way the wps "sdk" is set up? Or a problem in how the information is read?
18:13:47preglowlostlogic: a valid problem
18:13:57preglowlostlogic: i think voice ui should have special treatment in some way, by the way
18:14:00lostlogicKyomi: the problem is that the next dir is not in the playlist until you finisht eh current
18:14:11preglowlostlogic: like working on a shorter buffer being mixed in at the final stage before output
18:14:26t0maslostlogic: yes I do
18:14:32preglowcurrently, the voice ui latency is ridiculous
18:14:36KyomiI have an idea... do you think it'd be possible to get DOSbox working on an iRiver H320?
18:14:37 Quit Febs ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
18:14:37t0mas[17:30:45] <lostlogic> t0mas: do you control the list of build servers?
18:14:40lostlogicpreglow: it does, currently ~1/5 second chunks are buffered and mixed from at the nearest possible insertion point
18:15:01lostlogicpreglow: attempts to move it closer have caused flakey problems so far with playback overtaking voice insertion
18:15:23safetydanKyomi, not likely unfortunately. You need (roughly) 10 times the CPU power to emulate a given CPU.
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18:15:25lostlogict0mas: can you cahnge mine from to for readability?
18:15:35Kyomisafetydan: Why is that?
18:15:37t0masyes I can
18:15:46safetydanKyomi, so something like a 33Mhz 386 would need a 330MHz processor on your player
18:16:00preglowsafetydan: yep, that was it
18:16:17*Kyomi replaces the processor
18:16:30KyomiThis is kinda an odd question
18:16:32safetydanKyomi, just the overhead of interpreting the instructions for the old processor and doing the same on the new one
18:16:48safetydanpreglow, cool... wish there was an easy way to check if things were 64-bit clean before commit
18:16:55KyomiBut is it possible to replace the HD in my iRiver h320 with a bigger one?
18:16:58safetydanfor us 32-bit kiddies anyway
18:17:00preglowsafetydan: there isn't
18:17:00safetydanKyomi, yes
18:17:02KyomiI know they have like 40GB ones
18:17:10KyomiI'd like to get one
18:17:15lostlogicpreglow: in order to do voice while paused, we would have to _stop_ rather than pausing the playback hardware, save the current position in the buffer as the resume position, and then feed a specialized section of the pcmbuffer to the playback hardware as voice clips are decoded, it'd be difficult to work that in, as you can imagine... unless you have a better idea
18:17:38Kyomisafetydan: Is that because the "Bios" of it is in a lil flash memory?
18:17:55safetydanKyomi, no, just the amount of CPU power required
18:17:55t0maslostlogic: changed
18:18:11preglowlostlogic: i actually think stopping playback might actually be a viable solution, not allowing voice ui when paused will annoy a lot of people
18:18:13t0masSlasheri: changed your server's ip to that's the right one?
18:18:14lostlogicKyomi: if possible you'll want to match the number of platters in the hard drive or it makes fitting all the components in very difficult, the largest single platter is 40gb now, but just be careful when purchasing
18:18:27preglowlostlogic: until we get something more clever going, at least
18:18:31safetydanKyomi, has some information about drive replacements
18:18:33lostlogicpreglow: yeah, it's something I plan to do, but probably not for 3.0
18:18:37Slasherit0mas: yep, that's correct :)
18:18:47Kyomisafetydan: ty
18:18:50t0masI wasn't sure if it had to be .net or .org
18:18:56*preglow does does the mandatory tagcache status request
18:18:59lostlogicKyomi: nothing to do with a bios, just the instructions that run on the actual CPU
18:19:03 Join gunpowda [0] (
18:19:03Kyomisafetydan: I just wanted a 40GB max because of the option now to play video :)
18:19:24gunpowdaare there any plans to develop an ipod id3 database for rockbox?
18:19:41lostlogicgunpowda: preglow was just bothering slasheri about the status of the new tagcache.
18:19:43gunpowdaI love the features it offers over the normal ipod firmware, but I do mix the id3 based system too
18:20:08ohrnhum, how are the pixels laid out in memory on a H100 player?
18:20:27Slasheripreglow: maybe next week, too busy right now :/
18:20:34ohrnhowever I try to get the packing method right all I get is junk on the screen
18:20:52safetydanohrn, isn't there already a macro to do it for you?
18:20:56Slasheripreglow: about three different paid works at the moment i have to finish to some state first..
18:21:00gunpowdalostlogic, Slasheri, is the tagcache a similar system to apple's firmware then?
18:21:11ohrndunno, where?
18:21:12Slasherigunpowda: yes
18:21:16preglowSlasheri: as it's scheduled for 3.0, it might be clever to commit it and allow other people to work on it, or at least find out if there's a chance of it being finished until then
18:21:18crashdohrn: you using rgbpack ?
18:21:23Slasheripartially at least, it's generated on the device
18:21:39preglowSlasheri: i think making the old code work again is going to take some effort if we need it, heh
18:21:48Slasheripreglow: yes, i will do that as soon as i do the fix for the chunked browsing
18:22:07safetydanohrn, use LCD_RGBPACK or at least look at the definition for h100
18:22:08Slasherii don't want to commit it before that, because it requires some mandatory changes to the code
18:22:12preglowSlasheri: you need to stop sleeping
18:22:13ohrnok, thanks
18:22:18Slasherihehe :D
18:22:52 Join Febs [0] (
18:23:06safetydantagcache + WMA support (here's hoping a patch for that appears soon) will pretty much end most people's complaints
18:23:26preglowand sweet it'll be
18:23:35 Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
18:24:09Nico_Pnow we just need realtime AAC on iriver :D
18:24:28*Kyomi replaces AAC with SID
18:24:51KyomiProbably MIDI would be better realized
18:25:17safetydandoesn't sid/midi/mod support require fairly large changes to the playback system?
18:25:31gunpowdaoh, amazing
18:25:31preglowmerbanan said the ffmpeg people are working on aac
18:25:31gunpowdaI thought filename-based browsing was a design choice
18:25:57preglowthe result of which i'm really looking forward to seeing
18:25:57KyomiDoes MIDI work at all?
18:26:06KyomiOr is it at the "Cross your fingers" stage?
18:26:08bobTHCnot realtime
18:26:31merbananpreglow: the wip code is posted on the mailinglist
18:26:49KyomiWhat was the change to backlight.c when the change said "Me silly"?
18:26:56 Quit SereR0KR (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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18:27:18Nico_Pwhat sort of work are the ffmpeg people doing on aac ? optimisation ?
18:27:19preglowmerbanan: got an url for me?
18:27:22*preglow gets worked up
18:27:49gunpowdaSlasheri, do you have a rough estimate for when tagcache will be implemented/usable?
18:27:49LinusNKyomi: i fixed a compiling error on the Ondio that i caused
18:28:03gunpowdaweeks, months, longer?
18:28:13Slasherigunpowda: usable when rockbox 3.0 is released
18:28:18Slasheriimplemented before that in cvs :)
18:28:22dprois there a way to make pause/resume a bit more responsive (or at least deterministic) ?
18:28:36merbananNico_P: it will be a new aac decoder for the ffmpeg project
18:28:44lostlogicdpro: what device? and I was unaware that it was a problem currently
18:29:01gunpowdaooh, and we're on 2.5 now
18:29:13lostlogicgunpowda: 3.0 is the next release, fyi
18:29:21lostlogicgunpowda: browse the wiki for more info
18:29:33dproipod, no it isn't a problem normally, but I'm kind of trying to make it sort of dj ready ... so sometimes on the spot sometimes not is a bit cumbersome
18:30:43 Join Bagder [0] (
18:31:25merbananNico_P: currently it is a float only implementation, that might change in the future
18:31:48safetydanis that really a 98 KiB header file in that aac patch?
18:31:52lostlogicdpro: so soemtimes when you press pause, the music doesn't pause immediately?
18:31:59safetydan79 even
18:32:45dprolostlogic: it pauses mostly fine but it's hard to predict when exaxtly it will resume
18:33:49lostlogicdpro: I just fiddled with it a bit, seems like when the resume is sent very close to the pause, it delays... thi smay be a limitation of the hardware's pause/resume cycle, not sure at this point
18:34:09dprolostlogic: resume can happen immediately or can take up to half a second ... it seems when I keep the pause up for longer it takes longer to resume
18:36:29lostlogicdpro: oh, that's the opposite of what I was having.
18:36:40gunpowdais the album art feature buggy or worthwhile?
18:37:15Nico_Pgunpowda: it's not buggy, but it's only worthwile if you intend to use it :p
18:37:32Nico_Pbecause of memory issues
18:37:33gunpowdayeah, assuming intention to use it
18:37:48Nico_Pthen it is worthwile
18:38:13gunpowdaall I need is tagcache, album art, lyrics. then I'm all set.
18:38:31preglowmerbanan: looks promising indeed
18:40:27lostlogicdpro: hmm, yes, not sure what the problem is, if I see anything that's likely to be the culprit when digging in the playback code, I'll letcha know... cna't imagine why it'd once-in-a-while have that .5s delay
18:40:43merbananpreglow: lets hope it's easy to convert the code to fixed point arithmetics
18:41:11 Quit ender` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:42:00gunpowdado I need to get all kinds of development environment complications sorted out before I can apply patches?
18:42:09 Join ender` [0] (i=ychat@
18:42:51lostlogicgunpowda: get the vmware player and the vmware dev environment or cygwin dev environment setup, it's not too difficult any more
18:44:16gunpowdaamazing, that's much more appealing than cygwin
18:45:13preglowmerbanan: i really like the ffmpeg codecs
18:45:13 Quit mtf8 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:45:21 Join mtf8 [0] (
18:45:21preglowmerbanan: small and efficient, almost without exception
18:45:47merbananpreglow: look at the cook decoder, it's a work of art :)
18:53:48 Quit bagawk (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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18:58:56 Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat")
19:00:14amiconnpreglow: Does ffmpeg have a wma decoder?
19:01:20 Join dpassen1 [0] (
19:01:55preglowamiconn: that's the one currently being ported
19:02:09preglowamiconn: and also the only opensource wma decoder i know to exis
19:02:54merbananpreglow: is the source for the port availible somewhere ?
19:05:01amiconnWow, less than 4 minutes for all 40 builds last round
19:05:20gunpowdaif I do a 'make' as per the instructions on the vmware player section, what am I getting, the very latest version?
19:06:42 Join mirak [0] (
19:07:35Febstucoz, I just uploaded some more changes to manual chapter 4 to the patchtracker.
19:07:47tucozFebs, great :)
19:07:52tucozI'll have a look
19:08:28tucozI am working on the Rockbox Interface chapter right now. You could have a look at that later on if you need help with the macros
19:08:40tucozThat is, after I commit my changes
19:09:12*amiconn really appreciates the ongoing documentation effort
19:09:21 Join obo [0] (
19:09:46*Febs appreciates the recognition.
19:09:56FebsThough tucoz has really been the driving force so far.
19:10:35tucozthe patch applied cleanly :)
19:10:39preglowmerbanan: he'll post it when he's got it going, he saus
19:10:46FebsWoo hoo! Another first for Febs.
19:11:09gunpowdacan someone direct me to the album art patch or the page with instructions for installing it?
19:12:06merbananpreglow: tell him I'd be happy to commit that to ffmpeg cvs if the code is nice
19:12:29preglowmerbanan: we'll see
19:14:33vu2097What's the story on battery life on ipod compared to Apple firmware?
19:15:03arf-arfcan anyone let me know how to see the current manual? I tried building using the debian developers image and choosing 9 (ihp120) then M (Manual) but got an error.
19:15:14 Join PhR3aK [0] (
19:15:21arf-arfBut the Normal build worked fine
19:15:32Mikachui don't know if it includes pdftex
19:15:33vu2097I charged mine fully, but when I boot Apple firmware, the battery indicator appears dead after just an hour or two of RockBoxing.
19:16:14Nico_Pand also :
19:18:00gunpowdaoh, I see - it's a patch for the .wps rather than for rockbox directly?
19:18:21Nico_Pno, you still have to patch your rockbox build
19:18:23 Join MulziSAW [0] (
19:19:05gunpowdaI can't seem to find any links on the patch page
19:19:38tucozFebs, comitted
19:20:09gunpowdaor maybe I need to register to see attachments?
19:20:50Nico_Pattachements are in the comments, in the tracker
19:20:53tucozFebs, and I think I got your name right this time :)
19:20:54Mikachugunpowda: look through the comments from the bottom going up
19:21:20 Quit tianjing (Remote closed the connection)
19:21:32PhR3aKhow far is the audio-playback on the x5?
19:21:53 Join tianjing [0] (
19:23:24MulziSAWhas someone noticed: when activating party mode while current song is paused, there is no way to start the playback. is that wanted?
19:24:54tucozMulziSAW, I've also noticed that. Don't know if that is wanted though
19:26:20PhR3aKor does anyone work on the audio codec driver at the moment?
19:26:24MulziSAWits kinda funny, its like unstartable music instead unstoppable! ;D
19:27:08*Kyomi edits her wps to make the next song scroll :D
19:28:07tucozMulziSAW, I know. The reason might be that if you are having a party, you start a song, enter party mode, and leave the player next to the stereo.
19:28:58Mikachusounds like a boring party
19:29:06Mikachu(with unplayable music)
19:29:27tucozBut, a check to see if playback is paused/stopped when adding a song to the playlist and start playing if it is would be nice
19:30:15MulziSAWi second that. but i'm not able to code a line...
19:32:54tucozMulziSAW, you could learn
19:33:01safetydanpreglow, were you going to check in those 64-bit fixes?
19:33:28 Part MulziSAW
19:33:59tucozamiconn, do you use mode to toggle play/pause ?
19:34:16tucozon the ondio
19:34:20amiconnAh, no
19:34:21preglowsafetydan: sooner or later :>
19:34:39amiconnThat works a bit unorthodox
19:34:53tucozhehe, ok. BUTTON_OFF?
19:34:57amiconnpause/unpause is Off. Long Off is stop
19:35:07tucozok, thanks
19:35:29amiconnI wanted to change that, but that would add modality, something Zagor didn't like
19:36:01amiconnMy idea was to keep Off as pause, but unpause with Right (== play on Ondio)
19:36:07tucozok, well. People gets used to the weirdest button presses anyway.
19:36:12amiconnWhen paused, a second Off would stop...
19:36:37 Quit gunpowda (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:36:43tucozbbl, got to eat.
19:36:56amiconnHmm, no linuxstb around...
19:38:21 Join ts-x [0] (
19:41:28*preglow summons jlo
19:41:33ts-xNico_P: Are there any known issues w/the album art patch e.g. breaks gapless, wps freezing, etc? I've been wanting to try it and since it doesn't look like it'll make cvs for awhile, I might just break down and patch...
19:42:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:46:07 Join gunpowda [0] (
19:46:20gunpowdawhen you type an incomplete command in linux, e.g. I did 'patch'
19:46:28gunpowdahow can I exit it and get back to the command prompt?
19:47:02Mikachuor in that particular case, ctrl-d would work too
19:47:23gunpowdacool, ty.
19:47:47crashdeoi and that
19:49:05safetydanHeh. Someone on the rockbox forums saying (paraphrase) "I'd like feature X but I can't code. I am willing to donate towards it though. Any chance of a pay pal account?". That message appears right next to the "donate" button on my screen.
19:49:19safetydanIf they'd just looked about 30 pixels left...
19:49:52gunpowdayeah but presumably they'd want to donate to the specific person or get their donation noticed somehow
19:50:07safetydangunpowda, true but still amusing
19:50:08preglowwhat feature is being talked about?
19:50:19Mikachuyou need some extra cash?
19:50:20safetydanoptical in recording I think
19:50:35preglowMikachu: always
19:50:40preglowbut no, i was just curious
19:50:48preglowoptical in recording shouldn't be that hard, i think
19:51:03preglowthe interface itself is on the chip, unless i'm mistaken
19:51:22safetydanand some people really misunderstand the complexity of programming for rockbox... it's really not that hard even for beginner programmers
19:51:42preglowdepends what you do, of course
19:51:52preglowbut of course
19:52:06safetydanstay away from the playback and dsp code and you're fine :)
19:52:07gunpowdaright now to get patches in the vmware client I'm making a tinyurl and doing a wget
19:52:09preglowmost people think it's harder than it is
19:52:11gunpowdais there a quicker way?
19:52:29Mikachuyes, mount the samba share as described in the wiki
19:52:31preglowthen you have matlab programmers, that think all programming is very easy
19:52:35lostlogicgunpowda: setup a samba share so you can save them from windows to the vmware
19:52:40Mikachupreglow: ['hehe'];
19:53:01 Quit kernelsensei (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:53:23safetydanhrmm.. while I'm on a trig roll, we still need sinh right? Same input and output formats?
19:53:26preglowi've done a fair bit of realtime dsp programming for people who're using matlab
19:53:44preglowall of them nearly had apoplexy when they saw the amount of c++ source needed for their 'small' matlab feature
19:54:20Mikachubut the matlab feature is coded in something too, don't they think about that?
19:54:36crashdyeah, but the C 'feature' is coded in something, also
19:54:37crashd; )
19:54:43preglowMikachu: no
19:54:45FebsYou realize that while you folks are saying that Rockbox is programming is "not that hard," many Rockbox users can't follow the installation instructions because they don't know where there root folder is?
19:55:03Mikachucrashd: c operators usually don't evaluate to something taking several minutes, like \ in matlab could do
19:55:10crashdtrue Mikachu , true
19:55:13crashdbut never the less ;)
19:55:21gunpowda"To make it easy to access the files in the virtual Linux operating system, we have included Samba."
19:55:23safetydanFebs, good point
19:55:39gunpowdaopening up \\myip doesn't show me the usr folder
19:55:52preglowdavid bryant did a change to the crossfeed coefs in dsp.c that i think is wrong
19:56:07preglow-0x66666666 isn't -0.2 in s0.31 fixed point, no?
19:56:43Mikachulooks unlikely
19:56:51Nico_Pts-x: there aren't any know issues with album art besides wasting some RAM when no album art has been found or when the feature isn't used by the WPS
19:57:00preglow1 - 0x66666666, perhaps
19:57:02 Quit _FireFly_ ("Leaving")
19:58:19gunpowdaI've got windows share folders working already, so I see my shared documents
19:58:28gunpowdabut no samba share folder for some reason
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20:05:06gunpowdaoh, it's \\Debian
20:05:10gunpowdathat wasn't obvious.
20:05:29Mikachudid you actually put "\\myip"?
20:05:58Mikachugood :)
20:07:27 Join Kohlrabi [0] (
20:07:48safetydanI'm shocked, the google calculator lacks asinh
20:08:30Mikachuwhat a sin
20:09:07 Join fox010 [0] (
20:14:25gunpowdameh. I really wanted to use this lyrics patch but I don't think it's working
20:14:44Mikachuhrm, flyspray links to pages doesn't work when viewing only watched tasks
20:14:45 Join kernelsensei [0] (
20:14:48Mikachuit forgets the watched state
20:14:55Mikachuentering &pagenum=2 manually works fine though
20:15:56mtf8are there any eq presets available?
20:16:31 Join qwm_ [0] (
20:16:52gunpowdahrm, think I should replace my march files with these february ones?
20:17:06 Join mirak_ [0] (
20:18:36safetydanmtf8, yes but not in the cvs or daily builds
20:19:09 Join herz42 [0] (
20:20:05mtf8I'm looking around now and see a few things
20:20:23mtf8is the eq stuff model specific?
20:20:43safetydanmtf8, no it works on nearly all targets
20:21:20ts-xNico_P: Sorry, was away for a minute...thanks for the reply. I think I'll give it a try this weekend. The maximum size is still 125x125?
20:22:22gunpowdaI'd definitely use the album art patch if it could read from the files
20:23:16preglowhow do i make a patch containing new files, again?
20:23:56safetydanpreglow, -N
20:24:20Nico_Pts-x: no problem. yes max size is 125x125
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20:27:34ts-xNico_P: When your code looks for the album name bitmap, it uses album name from the tag (not folder name)?
20:28:19 Quit qwm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:28:34preglowsafetydan: we're talking cvs diff, yeah, didn't seem to make a difference
20:28:58safetydanpreglow, have you added the file?
20:29:11preglowno :-)
20:29:17safetydanwell there you go then
20:29:31preglowwhat if i might not want to add it?
20:29:54Mikachucvs remove
20:29:55preglowcan always remove it again, i suppose
20:30:02preglownothing happens until commit anyway
20:30:08*preglow slaps head
20:30:10Mikachui think i saw a program thatlets you fakeadd files
20:30:19Mikachuyou can only actually run cvs add if you have commit access
20:30:27Nico_Pts-x: yes, it uses the album tag
20:30:37ts-xNico_P: The reason I ask, is that when I was setting similar functionality up in foobar2000 last weekend and noticed a problem with album name instead of folder name.
20:30:56Nico_Pwhat kinf of problem ?
20:31:21ts-xAlbums names with characters such as '/' in them cannot have associated image files
20:31:35Nico_Pvery true
20:31:53Nico_Pin this case the album art probably just won't be found
20:31:54safetydanIs it just me or are the comments in dsp.c slightly messed up?
20:32:00tucozamiconn, around? How do you go to the file-browser and also show the pitch screen on the ondio?
20:32:07safetydanThe comment starting at line 520 doesn't seem to belong there
20:32:13ts-xYeah...I ended up defaulting the foobar plugin to folder name because of that
20:32:40amiconntucoz: Pitch screen is in the wps context menu (only, and merely since a few days)
20:32:43Nico_Ppersonally i've never seen an album with "/" in it's title..
20:32:49ts-xIt's either that or change the tag values to remove the characters that present issues
20:32:54preglowsafetydan: i have just now fixed it
20:32:59safetydanah okay
20:33:06tucozamiconn, ok. And to go to the file-browser?
20:33:08preglowit's in a patch i'm testing for h120 right now
20:33:10ts-xKMFDM - Naive/Hell to Go is one example
20:33:21amiconntucoz: Short Mode.
20:33:27gunpowdawhen I'm using patch, I place the patch file in the src directory
20:33:28*amiconn seems to repeat himself
20:33:37Mikachugunpowda: okay
20:33:39gunpowdait always then throws errors about not being able to find the relative path
20:33:46Nico_Pwell you can still use cover.bmp
20:33:52ts-xGood point
20:33:56gunpowdabut if I type in, say, apps/onplay.c or something it'll oatch ok
20:33:59Mikachugunpowda: some patches are made in the dir that contains apps
20:34:11Mikachugunpowda: and you usually need to give one of -p0 or -p1 too
20:34:14ts-xMight be a little confusing to the masses though...
20:34:31gunpowdawhat do those switches do?
20:34:35Nico_Pit all depends on how your music is organised
20:34:55Mikachugunpowda: man patch
20:35:19Nico_Pi don't use <album title>.bmp... only cover.bmp and a few of <filename.bmp>
20:35:32Nico_Pthat's because each album is in a dir of it's own
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20:36:14PapricaNico_P, i'm waiting for JPG album art =]
20:36:20 Join lodesi [0] (
20:36:35Nico_Pwell i'm waiting for JPEG loading in WPS ;)
20:36:54Mikachuthe jpeg plugin is 27 kB so i don't know what the chances are of including it in the core
20:37:11crashdwhat about PNG's?
20:37:19crashdthat's a much easier format to decode
20:37:20Mikachunobody has pngs in their mp3 tags
20:37:25crashdwell, as album art
20:37:28*ts-x will take any type of album art in WPS :)
20:37:46crashdrahter than id3 embedded
20:37:53preglowjust be content with bmp, goddamnit#!¤!"
20:38:00crashdeasy thom :)
20:38:06crashdim just wondering, is all
20:38:09Nico_Plisten to preglow :D
20:38:11*ts-x is content
20:38:20crashdi was thinking of playing with a png plugin when i get some free time
20:38:24*Mikachu browses content
20:38:25crashdif i ever get this other stuff working
20:38:49Nico_Pcrashd: very good idea
20:38:58Nico_Pwhat's the other stuff ?
20:39:11crashdwell, i was playing with some demoo effect type stuff, trying to port a modulo tunnel effect to rockbox
20:39:20Mikachushouldn't it be pretty easy to write a bmp viewer plugin?
20:39:21crashdbut i couldnt get it to output anything other than garbage
20:39:31crashdso i need to find some time to figure out why it's not working
20:39:35crashdas it's a pretty simple piece of code
20:39:47gunpowdawell, regardless of the switches I use
20:39:51Papricammm it's very annoying to rezise the album art bitmaps to 100x100, 75x75 (the wps album art sizes)
20:39:56gunpowdait says it needs to patch rockbox/apps/onplay.c but it can't find it
20:40:02gunpowdaif I type in 'rockbox/apps/onplay.c' it works
20:40:12crashdgunpowda: where are you running this, inr elation to the sourcetree?
20:40:35gunpowdaI've tried in both src and rockbox
20:40:48crashdusing the -px switch?
20:40:52Nico_PMikachu: yes, probably, especially with the existing code
20:41:06Nico_Pand eli_sherer had already done one
20:41:21crashdyou'll need to use -p0 or -p1 probably
20:41:34Mikachulike i said 10 minutes ago...
20:41:38crashd O.o
20:41:58gunpowdasure, I've tried both of those
20:42:09PapricaNico_P, eli_sherer BMP viewer is very slow... it takes a year to load a bitmap
20:42:10 Quit kernelsensei (Connection timed out)
20:42:11Mikachulook at the head of the patch, the path to the files is listed there
20:42:12 Nick kernel_sensei is now known as kernelsensei (n=boris@gentoo/developer/kernelsensei)
20:42:13gunpowdaoh, x is a number. I get you know
20:42:24Mikachuthe x means how many leading components to strip
20:42:39Nico_Pyes, the best is probalby to use the BMP loading code that's in rockbox already
20:42:56 Join Lynx [0] (
20:43:03gunpowdait lacks a trailing slash already
20:43:17ts-xPaprica: Yeah once I resize bmp's for 400 albums, I'm never switching wps' again unless they support that size ;)
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20:44:11Mikachui hope you guys are using some sort of automated way for doing that
20:44:14gunpowdameh. I'll just replace the files
20:44:24Nico_Pof course
20:44:31gunpowdaI hope english.lang and screens.c haven't changed much in a month
20:44:48Mikachuguess again
20:46:02Nico_Psome people have suggested allowing names like cover75.bmp, cover100.bmp...
20:46:21Nico_Pit's a rather good idea but i don't really see how to implement it
20:46:22crashdi think, in time, code for resizing would be easier
20:46:24gunpowdascratch that then
20:46:35crashdthan supporting lots of silly formats for album art
20:46:42Nico_Pcrashd: sure
20:47:11Nico_Phow hard is it to scale down a bitmap ?
20:48:01crashdwell, it's not 'hard' per say
20:48:07crashdbut it's the resource toll that's probably the issue
20:48:25PhR3aKhow far is the coding of the audio codec driver fpr the x5? does anyone know somthing about it?
20:48:27Nico_Pyes, especially in WPS
20:48:35crashdNico_P: exactly
20:50:15gunpowdahow can I close a man page?
20:50:48Nico_PPhR3aK: i suppose the only one to know is LinusN
20:51:42Nico_Pand the best way to have it quickly is to be patient and let him work :)
20:51:55PhR3aKk ^^
20:52:52Nico_Pany committers here ?
20:53:19crashdi assume you mean CVS, and not relationships
20:53:34Nico_Pgood guess
20:53:37crashd: )
20:55:11Papricai'll leave it to someone else =]
20:56:21Nico_Pdon't you like it ? ^^
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20:57:34Papricalike it, but i'll leave it to other committer
20:58:01*amiconn summons [IDC]Dragon
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21:01:46preglowsafetydan: there, the comment should be "slightly" better now
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21:04:30lostlogicbagh, why does bubbles stop playback!/
21:04:41lostlogicit is _not_ processor intensive
21:04:49preglowno yield?
21:05:09Mikachuit has a yield
21:05:17lostlogicthat's what I'm thinking... but if it even button_gets it should offer enough yield time... but audio playback stops even when no buttons are being pressed
21:05:23Mikachuand also a sleep
21:05:23Nico_Pthat's work for the code police !
21:05:30Mikachu if(currenttick-lasttick < HZ/MAX_FPS) {
21:05:31Mikachu rb->sleep((HZ/MAX_FPS)-(currenttick-lasttick));
21:05:31Mikachu } else {
21:05:31DBUGEnqueued KICK Mikachu
21:05:31Mikachu rb->yield();
21:05:34Mikachuthat should be enough, no?
21:05:41safetydanpreglow, where "slightly" means "totally rewritten"
21:05:45lostlogicMikachu: yeah, when it's drawing frames
21:05:50lostlogicbut what about when it's not drawing frames
21:06:01Mikachulike when doing calculations?
21:06:33 Quit kernelsensei (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:06:48preglowsafetydan: well, the old one didn't apply at all, so...
21:07:10lostlogicMikachu: nope, like when just sitting there doing nothing
21:07:37Mikachui think it always draws the frame at FPS fps, but i can't promise anything
21:08:26Mikachuthere are 3 places with a /* framerate limiting */ thing, but one of them doesn't have an else { yield } thing
21:08:29Mikachumaybe that's it?
21:08:59Mikachumy track record for fixing bugs in bubbles isn't very good though :)
21:09:07lostlogicthe button loop doesn't yield ever
21:09:36lostlogicwhy does it use a non-blocking cpu eating button loop
21:09:48lostlogicit should use a button_get_w_tmo or button_get(true)
21:10:01lostlogicmy battery is crying.
21:10:03Mikachuwhich button loop are we talkign about here?
21:11:10Mikachuthat function doesn't have any loops
21:11:18 Join thegeek_ [0] (
21:11:27Mikachuoh wait hm
21:11:28lostlogicsorry, when that function returns anything other than no button, the yield / sleep code is skipped over
21:11:30 Quit thegeek (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:11:41Mikachuin case BUBBLES_START there is also something funny
21:11:42gunpowdahow can I quit a man page?
21:11:43lostlogicbut at least I see why it uses a non-blocking
21:11:47Mikachu while(rb->button_get(true) != (BUBBLES_START));
21:11:51Mikachugunpowda: still q
21:12:16lostlogicMikachu: that's not bad because it's blocking
21:12:27Mikachuoh right, button_get not button_status
21:12:29lostlogichmm... the root of the problem is less obvious tan I previously thought.
21:12:34gunpowdaI missed your earlier reply
21:13:48Mikachui think the code is a bit hard to follow, many nested returns and stuff
21:14:26lostlogicline 2525 I think is missing a yield.
21:14:45Mikachuyeah that's the one i suspected earlier :)
21:15:07lostlogicsigh. *isslow*
21:16:38lostlogicwhat's confusing about bubbles is that frames are drawn all over the place, and therefore there are several places where frame rate limitting and buttons are processed
21:16:50 Quit damaki__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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21:18:20tucozanyone know how to retrieve a previous revision of a file from CVS
21:18:29lostlogicand it draws frames at FPS regardless of whether anything is changing :-\
21:18:32Mikachutucoz: -r
21:18:37lostlogicmy battery is crying more
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21:18:55Mikachulostlogic: well, there is a timer thing for shooting balls away so i see why he doesn't wait for a button
21:19:03Mikachubut it's of course possible to sleep appropriate times anyway
21:19:06tucozMikachu, thanks.
21:19:17Mikachutucoz: iirc it goes betwene "update" and the filename
21:19:29Mikachuif you say cvs -r [] update it means something different
21:20:34Mikachulostlogic: did the yield help?
21:21:03lostlogicMikachu: slightly −− now music at least plays gappily along while sitting idle in the game
21:21:17Mikachui guess you could lower the target fps
21:21:20lostlogicbut it really needs logic to determine whether or not to redraw the board each loop
21:21:35 Quit fox010 ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
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21:23:09CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
21:23:09*lostlogic gives up for now who wrote it? someone bite him and make him fix it, or just disable audio while playing the game.
21:23:12tucozFebs, are you here?
21:23:31Mikachulostlogic: rotator i think
21:23:36Nico_Protator wrote it
21:24:00Nico_Pit worked fine before the last commit he made to change it
21:24:11lostlogicwhat changed?
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21:24:24Nico_Pmax fps i think
21:24:55Nico_Psorry that wasn't the last commit he made for the game
21:24:57lostlogicI'd have no complaints with it if it didn't just burn CPU when nothing other than the timer is changing
21:25:14Nico_Pi think it was that one :
21:25:33lostlogicmakes sense
21:25:49Mikachuthe animations doesn't seem to depend on fps though
21:26:31Nico_Pthat's when i started having playback skips... the problem probably existed before
21:26:35Mikachuit looks slower with lower fps, not just choppier
21:26:53lostlogicso the animations are drawn with movement-per-frame
21:26:59lostlogicas opposed to movement per time
21:27:12Mikachuso it would seem
21:27:20lostlogicit's an impressive game actually just needs some work as most of rockbox does :-p
21:27:39lostlogicthe bubbles falling animation is particularly impressive to me as a total non-game programmer
21:27:41Mikachuyou've had 5 years, shouldn't you be done by now? :P
21:28:10tucozFebs, I think I'll have to revert that last commit. I cannot build the manual.
21:28:33tucozFebs, that is, I have too many changes pending. I'll look into it in a while
21:28:57 Join RotAtoR [0] (n=e@rockbox/developer/rotator)
21:31:09 Quit lodesi ("Leaving")
21:32:36preglowand here he is
21:32:57 Quit MrStaticVoid ("leaving")
21:33:27*lostlogic bites Rotator
21:33:39RotAtoRlostlogic: o.O
21:34:11safetydanHas doxygen been tried before on Rockbox?
21:34:19lostlogicRotAtoR: <3 bubbles... in terms of game play... but ... drawing at full frame rate when there is no input... seems overkill, and more importantly causes playback to die on ipoop 5g
21:34:37lostlogicRotAtoR: also, there's one missing yield in one of the frame rate limitting loops line 2525
21:34:51RotAtoRhmm, ok, i'll have a look
21:35:10lostlogicRotAtoR: when the animatoins aren't running, the screen should only be updated when the user does something probably... to reduce cpu waste, battery usage and allow audio not to skip :)
21:35:40 Quit damaki_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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21:35:58lostlogicperhaps have an 'idle mode' for the handlebuttons function where it uses a button_get_w_tmo to keep your game timers running even though nothing is changing
21:36:27lostlogichope I didn't break skin biting you... I have rabies afterall.
21:36:39 Part huntermic
21:36:40*Mikachu puts on kevlar suit
21:36:49RotAtoRyeah, i think the whole button handling part needs some more thought
21:37:05RotAtoRi didn't put a whole lot of thought into it when originally writing it
21:38:16lostlogicRotAtoR: *nod* at the moment I don't have any brilliant thoughts, but it might be possible to have the handle buttons only called from the main loop and not from the other animation loops... or is it a game requirement that input cancels animations and 'skips ahead' to the next complete state?
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21:38:58dprois there a way to figure out the current frame while playing ? (i.e. to reuse that value later with audio_seamless_seek(pos) ?
21:38:59RotAtoRwell, i wanted to be able to still aim while the animations are running
21:39:26RotAtoRbut no, you can't cancel the animations
21:40:11Mikachuwhen animations are running you want full fps of course, so you only need the extra sleeping when nothing is running... so the only things that can cause movement on screen is the Hurry thing and the user pressing a button
21:40:22Mikachuso just button_get_w_tmo(time to next Hurry) should do it?
21:40:26lostlogicdpro: I forget, is seemless_seek taking a time or byte value?
21:40:43Mikachuif i'm missing some important part just ignore me
21:40:50lostlogicdpro: either way, the id3 struct contains offset and elapsed values that should give you whichever value you need
21:40:56lostlogicI think it's the elapsed tie in MS that you seek to
21:41:04RotAtoRMikachu: possibly, i may have to rethink some of the timing code then
21:41:25Mikachui also noticed the animation speeds seem to depend on fps
21:41:29webguest26how do I hide folders in rockbox from explorer
21:41:32Mikachubut that's less important
21:41:59lostlogicpreglow: did you forget the dsp_arm.S file?
21:42:01webguest26windows explorer
21:42:20Mikachui'm not sure why you'd want to, but you can try setting the hidden and/or system attribute on them
21:42:21dprolostlogic: I guess it's frames
21:42:29Mikachuthere are options in explorer to show files with those attributes though
21:42:31webguest26if i name the file .something will it work
21:42:37lostlogicpreglow: nvm
21:42:39dprolastlogic: or time in what then ? msec ?
21:42:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:43:03lostlogicdpro: it's time in msec, I believe that's how all seeking is based now that I think about it
21:43:27Mikachui'm pretty sure bookmarks save the times in ms
21:44:35webguest26how does rockbox hide its files
21:45:12preglowlostlogic: it doesn't exist yet
21:45:20lostlogicpreglow: yeah, I figured taht out, I'm just a bit slow.
21:45:40preglowi figure it'll come when i do new resamplers and stuff
21:45:44preglowthere's a new crossfeed coming too
21:45:44safetydanwebguest26, it either respest the hidden attribute or hides files starting with . (unless you have the Show All Files option turned on)
21:45:48lostlogicthe rabies eating my brain is my excuse
21:46:26webguest26thank you,
21:46:29 Part webguest26
21:47:24*Mikachu hands lostlogic a braineating zombie
21:48:45arf-arfcan anyone help with t