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#rockbox log for 2006-03-24

00:00:11herz42are there other settings above 1.38?
00:00:17amiconnYes, 2.76
00:00:28amiconn(11.059200 MHz / 4)
00:00:34herz42hmm, that's a big step
00:00:59amiconnNow it skips (as expected)
00:01:52 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
00:03:53 Join [TCK] [0] (
00:04:19 Join nnod [0] (
00:04:54 Part LinusN
00:05:55gunpowdahey, where's the bootloader?
00:07:25webguest52For which player?
00:07:45amiconnAlmost smooth playback :-) That's still with crappy sw transfer and no buffering
00:08:14herz42how frequent do you check the demand pin?
00:08:32amiconnEvery serial byte atm
00:09:13webguest52What are you up to?
00:09:20Paul_The_Nerdgunpowda: At the IpodBoot or IriverBoot or IaudioBoot page?
00:09:43herz42amiconn: and it works that fast? checking would only be allowed to take like 32 insns
00:10:21amiconnObviously it does
00:10:44herz42or maybe it slows SCI down to above the right speed :)
00:10:54amiconnIt's a test plugin atm, reading as it plays (no sleep for the disk)
00:10:59 Join qwm [0] (
00:11:02amiconnIt can play 44.1kHz stereo wavs
00:11:20amiconnRequires a modification of the plugin api (3 i2c functions exported)
00:11:53amiconnNot sure whether I should post it on the tracker
00:12:04amiconnMaybe the plugin has a gpl issue
00:12:38amiconnIt contains the wav codec as arrays
00:12:45gunpowdagot it
00:12:59webguest52Yeah, that sounds somewhat problematic
00:13:01gunpowdahow can I make the samba share writable from windows?
00:13:07Bagderamiconn: we consider that OK, as long as that is for a separate chip
00:13:13webguest52gunpowda: It should be already
00:13:17amiconnWe could look at it as initialisation data. After all, this code isn't running on our main CPU
00:13:30gunpowdaaccess denied
00:13:39amiconnMaybe I should do that
00:13:44webguest52gunpowda: Did you login with "user" "rockbox"?
00:14:19gunpowdaoh I changed to root at some point
00:15:19gunpowdaI was just going to edit it within debian but vi is so unintuitive
00:16:04herz42gunpowda: I have requested to include vim already ;)
00:16:05BHSPitLappygunpowda: did you ever make the edit
00:16:10BHSPitLappyto the bootloader
00:16:15gunpowdadoing it now
00:16:45webguest52The image includes nano, which is quite simple to figure out
00:16:57BHSPitLappycould you remind me where i==BUTTON_MENU makes the default firmware boot?
00:17:02*Paul_The_Nerd adds a Rockboy issues synopsis to the IpodFaq.
00:17:23BHSPitLappyI found a rule for nothing=rockbox and play=linux, but nothing on menu=retailos
00:17:36gunpowdadamn it.
00:17:41gunpowdaI still get access denied
00:17:53BHSPitLappygunpowda: (see last two statements)
00:18:01gunpowdathis must be because I did that svn thing
00:18:34gunpowdawell right now it boots rockbox unless you hold down menu
00:20:46BHSPitLappyI know
00:21:02BHSPitLappythe code looks like it makes RetailOS the fallback option (which it does)
00:21:11BHSPitLappybut I can't see what makes it respond to the MENU key
00:21:23 Quit qwm_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:21:37BHSPitLappyI see that if i==BUTTON_PLAY, linux boots
00:22:02BHSPitLappyhmm, maybe it just IS a fallback
00:22:04Paul_The_NerdDoesn't Loader2 let you set a default OS in the config?
00:22:05BHSPitLappyI kind of get it now
00:22:08Paul_The_NerdWhy not just use it?
00:22:10BHSPitLappyPaul_The_Nerd: yes
00:22:15BHSPitLappyPaul_The_Nerd: SLOW SLOW fat driver.
00:22:29BHSPitLappynot just fat, the fwfs also
00:22:39BHSPitLappyit boots like my computer
00:22:53BHSPitLappy(time-wise :P_
00:22:58gunpowdais there a config file
00:23:04gunpowdafor making the bootloader?
00:23:09 Join scottder [0] (
00:23:15BHSPitLappygunpowda: ipodloader2 can have a config file...
00:23:46scottderRockbox rox :)
00:23:50BHSPitLappyokay, just changed the source
00:24:23gunpowdayeah, me too
00:24:30gunpowdabut before I compile I'd like to configure it
00:24:42gunpowdabecause the site offers different versions for 5g, nano, etc
00:24:57Paul_The_Nerdgunpowda: It's just like any other rockbox build. ../tools/configure
00:25:07BHSPitLappydamn your typing skills, paul
00:25:08Paul_The_NerdYou've noticed the (B)ootloader option there, I'm sure..
00:25:29gunpowdaahh, right
00:25:41BHSPitLappygunpowda: change your source, make a directory (Called boot5g or w/e), configure, make
00:25:49gunpowdaI was going to do something like that but then I thought configure would be in a specific dir
00:25:58gunpowdaand I'm somewhere deep in a tree of folders
00:26:02amiconnWoohoo, with some trivial optimisation (pointer instead of array) it's running completely smooth! :-)
00:26:09*amiconn does the MAS pcm dance
00:26:29gunpowdanooo. I don't have that arm-elf thing
00:26:45BHSPitLappygunpowda: linux, or cygwin
00:26:50 Quit [TCK] (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:27:00 Join Febs [0] (
00:27:22BHSPitLappygunpowda: I'll just upload mine for you
00:27:26BHSPitLappy(the loader)
00:27:28gunpowdaI'm install ing it now
00:28:04gunpowdahrm, some random dialogue box popped up while I was typing that
00:29:04gunpowdaBHSPitLappy, now I get 'invalid option' long-calls
00:29:13FebsDriving home from work, I had a good idea for a new plugin or function: sine wave sweep. It could be used in conjunction with the EQ and possibly an SPL meter to determine EQ settings.
00:29:17BHSPitLappyPaul_The_Nerd: would it be okay if I uploaded the modified bootloader to the ipodinstallation page
00:29:27BHSPitLappyas an "alternative" 5g bootloader
00:29:55gunpowdathat's what I'd have done
00:30:07gunpowdaI think they'd take it down though : )
00:30:18Paul_The_NerdBHSPitLappy: Honestly, I personally don't think it's that great of an idea. It seems like something that should go on the IpodBoot page if anywhere, and very very clearly listed as "Unofficial".
00:30:58Paul_The_NerdThe idea though is that Rockbox is intended to be a primary firmware. So you're not supposed to *want* to boot the other first. So, while I imagine it'll be okay for now, I expect it'll be removed at some future date when Rockbox is "ready" for major use on the iPod (3.1?)
00:31:03BHSPitLappyPaul_The_Nerd: ahh, well, I just thought of that page since that's where all the bootloaders are "attachments"
00:31:30Paul_The_NerdBHSPitLappy: Actually, add it to the FAQ
00:31:42BHSPitLappyPaul_The_Nerd: when there's an id3 browser, I'll delete it ;)
00:31:47 Quit tim66 (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:31:53BHSPitLappyoh, and an mp4 player :/
00:31:57gunpowdaBHSPitLappy, hey, I was thinking the same thing!
00:32:00Paul_The_NerdBHSPitLappy: Nah, not the FAQ, since that's read post-install, and would end up with a lot of confusion. Rescinded.
00:32:20amiconnFebs: Why not just have a sine wave sweep track?
00:32:21BHSPitLappyPaul_The_Nerd: so not with the other bootloader attachments?
00:32:23Paul_The_NerdI guess IpodInstallation works, as long as it's clearly Unofficial
00:33:04gunpowdaBHSPitLappy, can you help me for one sec?
00:33:08Paul_The_NerdI mean, it's definitely something people will want right now, at least until Rockbox replaces all the music-features of Retail
00:33:18BHSPitLappygunpowda: don't ask pointless questions like that
00:33:23webguest52So archos is playing wav now?
00:33:27gunpowdaI get an error about conf.h not being found
00:33:42BHSPitLappyPaul_The_Nerd: since it's the 5G bootloader, I'm guessing that people that buy a 5G, buy it for the Video playback
00:33:48gunpowdaautoconf.h is there though. I did ./tools/configure
00:34:09BHSPitLappywhat folder are you in
00:34:21Paul_The_NerdBHSPitLappy: When you can, build it for Photo and Nano at least. 4G Gray's bootloader isn't finalized yet, so I'm not sure if an alt of it should be posted too.
00:34:49BHSPitLappyPaul_The_Nerd: ok
00:35:14BHSPitLappygunpowda: you need to go to rockbox, make a whole new dir
00:35:18BHSPitLappycall it boot5g or something
00:35:28BHSPitLappycd into it, then run ../tools/configure
00:35:31BHSPitLappynotice the two periods
00:35:37BHSPitLappythen make
00:35:45 Quit DJ_Dooms_Day ("Trillian (")
00:36:53gunpowdanow I get the error about long-calls being invalid
00:36:59 Quit Paul_The_Nerd ("Leaving.")
00:37:38 Part obo
00:38:20BHSPitLappyyour gcc is too old I think
00:38:33gunpowdaI got the one from the wiki
00:38:37BHSPitLappyarm-elf-gcc −−dumpversion
00:38:44BHSPitLappyI think tells you the version
00:40:00BHSPitLappygunpowda: do you just want to wait for me to finish mine?
00:40:25BHSPitLappyor do you plan on doing a lot more compiling with rockbox
00:40:52gunpowdaoh I'll be compiling some more
00:40:54BHSPitLappythat's excessively old
00:41:03gunpowdais there a command I can use to upgrade it?
00:41:06BHSPitLappyyou need 4.x.x for rockbox
00:41:11BHSPitLappyI don't do debian
00:42:19 Join sharpe [0] (
00:42:39webguest52BHSPitLappy: It's the version needed for the IPL kernel iirc
00:44:36BHSPitLappywhen I get the make error, "Out of memory!" does it mean hard disk, or RAM
00:45:54ashridahram, probably.
00:46:06 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
00:47:03BHSPitLappyI'm watching my RAM as it builds, and it's fine
00:48:01BHSPitLappyI get up to "OBJCOPY /home/Stephen/rockbox-devel/boot5g/bootloader/bootloader.elf
00:48:01BHSPitLappyBuild bootloader file
00:48:01BHSPitLappyout of memory!"
00:49:45ashridahit might be talking about limitations of the target
00:50:06ashridahie, the code's too big to fit into the available space
00:50:56gunpowdaI can't find a .sh of the latest arm-elf-gcc
00:51:59 Join rUiSu [0] (
00:53:14BHSPitLappyashridah: erm... weird
00:53:22BHSPitLappyashridah: what can I do, then?
00:55:01BHSPitLappyI'm building for 5G with gcc 4.0.1
00:55:30midkaybuilding the bootloader, BHSPitLappy?
00:56:56ashridahBHSPitLappy: i didn't think that gcc 4.x worked for arm, but i could be wrong
00:57:10ashridahbut yeah, gcc 4 tends to make larger code
00:57:15midkayashridah, no, 4 is the one for arm..
00:57:26BHSPitLappyashridah: it's what I have to use for rockbox...
00:57:43ashridahprobably a bug then
00:57:46BHSPitLappyiPL uses 3.4.3, and because of rockbox I have both
00:57:46midkayBHSPitLappy, builds for me.
00:58:25BHSPitLappy rockbox-devel/<my boot dir>/bootloader/bootloader.bin is 1GB
00:58:26 Join qwm_ [0] (
00:58:33BHSPitLappyhow does that make sense at all
00:58:46BHSPitLappythe on-disk size is 256kb
00:58:57midkay54kb here...
01:01:47sharpehey everyone...
01:02:51 Join damaki_ [0] (
01:03:10midkayyo sharpe!
01:03:46 Quit muesli__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:05:05sharpehey midkay, i'm going on a trip in about... ten hours... i'll get back saturday, then i'll be gone saturday night. so i probably won't be able to get to do more work on the wps loader until sunday or so.
01:05:33*midkay sobs "let me work on it".
01:05:51sharpewell, i dunno, i may have access to a laptop on the trip... :)
01:06:11 Quit rUiSu ("Ľ IRcap [8.12] Ľ Ľ")
01:06:20midkaywoohoo :)
01:06:36sharpeso yeah, i'll probably be working on it while someone's driving.
01:07:05*sharpe has marshmallows in the shape of bunnies.
01:07:26gunpowdahey, is the necessary version of arm-elf-gcc in the image?
01:07:36gunpowdabecause it didn't show up when I tried to compiled something
01:07:50gunpowdathen I googled and installed the version on the ipld page, which is apparently far too old
01:08:07midkaygunpowda, "the" image? which?
01:08:46gunpowdathe vmware one
01:09:02midkayyes, it works for me..
01:09:10 Quit qwm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:09:12midkaydid you get a "arm-elf-gcc: command not found" error?
01:09:19amiconnWow, 224 seconds...
01:10:05midkaytry: export PATH=/home/user/arm/bin:$PATH
01:10:14midkayand see what happens when you try to recompile..
01:10:48 Join Kyomi [0] (
01:11:36herz42amiconn: the wav play patch looks good. As long as no DMA is used, you might try to do the bitswapping in the inner sending loop. That might fit pretty well and could lower timing constraints.
01:11:48gunpowdasec, re-extracting the image midkay
01:12:04midkaygunpowda, alright
01:12:43midkayamiconn, btw, congrats on WAV :)
01:13:38amiconntnx :)
01:15:11 Quit midkay (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:15:21 Join midkay_ [0] (
01:15:51amiconnThe good thing is that we can support all standard sample rates as well as stereo & mono.
01:16:15amiconnWAV & AIFF are no problem, the PCM codec has switchable endianess
01:16:36midkay_amiconn, i doubt it's possible to record in WAV, is it?
01:16:37amiconnOnly constraints are that we still need to bitswap, and the data must be 16 bit
01:16:43amiconnIt is?
01:16:46ashridahamiconn: apparently you've forgotten cassandra once again
01:16:52gunpowdado I need to cvs checkout rockbox to compile the bootloader?
01:17:02amiconnashridah: ?
01:17:11gunpowdaor am I okay with cvs checkout bootloader?
01:17:16ashridahamiconn: nevermind, it's the whole "Gentlemen" bit :)
01:17:20midkay_gunpowda, rockbox to compile rockbox
01:17:23midkay_amiconn, it is?
01:17:25amiconnBlargh, of course
01:17:28*amiconn silly
01:17:32 Nick midkay_ is now known as midkay (
01:17:41gunpowdaok. I'd just like to compile the bootloader
01:17:41ashridahold habits die hard
01:17:45amiconnmidkay_: Yes. The question is whether we can transfer fast enough...
01:17:48gunpowdabut presumably I need to do some configuration
01:17:52gunpowdae.g. select the ipod etc
01:18:06midkaygunpowda, rockbox-devel is needed to compile the bootloader..
01:18:16midkay(or just bootloader, *perhaps*)
01:18:34 Quit damaki (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:18:35*amiconn searches for more WAVs, something more powerful...
01:19:12gunpowdamidkay, so I'd be okay with those two?
01:19:38midkaygunpowda, those two? either rockbox-devel which will work, or bootloader, which may or may not..
01:19:38gunpowdaI'm a bit confused about the lack of ../tools/compile
01:19:50gunpowdathat's the one
01:20:08gunpowdayes. when I had just the bootloader directory I had no options for configuration
01:20:19midkaycheck out rockbox-devel instead..
01:21:07 Quit ashridah ("uni")
01:22:17amiconnUrgs, we would have to use the same ugly polled PIO for PCM recording as used for mp3 recording
01:22:25gunpowdafantastic! it worked
01:22:39gunpowdaI don't know how else I'd have found out about rockbox-devel, thanks.
01:22:45amiconnAt least I don't expect the same speed issues as with mp3, so we could use an optimised asm loop
01:23:17amiconnI still suspect that won't be fast enough
01:24:01midkaygunpowda, np, glad it worked for you. you needed to export path, right?
01:24:20midkayamiconn, hmm.. let's cross our fingers..
01:25:11gunpowdanope, it Just Worked.
01:25:18midkaygunpowda, ah. good
01:25:49amiconnThere'll always be a gap at an mp3->wav track change. The i2c codec download takes some time
01:26:11amiconnIt's less than a second though
01:26:42 Quit matsl ("Leaving")
01:26:43herz42amiconn: why is the parallel download not used?
01:26:56herz42is it a hw issue?
01:27:22amiconnIt's not connected in the archos
01:27:35herz42ok, that's a good reason...
01:27:40amiconnSerial xfer is no problem as we can use DMA
01:28:13herz42yeah, parallel would just be much faster
01:28:18amiconnDoing that in a plugin however means to 'hijack' the interrupt vectors. Something that's tricky, and it's impossible when running from ROM
01:28:50amiconnSpeed doesn't really matter when using DMA, as long as it's fast enough to cope
01:29:17herz42you were just talking about one (1) second
01:29:29amiconnAh, that's the codec download
01:29:46 Join TiMiD [0] (n=TiMiD[
01:29:48 Join webguest68 [0] (
01:29:49herz42yes, I was also talking about codec download :)
01:29:57amiconnCodec download can't be done using the SCI. Either parallel (impossible on archos) or i2c
01:30:29amiconnI obviously overlooked a word :/
01:31:12herz42anyhow parallel is no chance for both, download and data due to hw
01:32:28*amiconn is going to test on Ondio
01:32:44amiconnI don't expect 44.1kHz to run realtime w/o using DMA on Ondio
01:33:42amiconnWe'll need super-special optimisations
01:34:16herz42what freq is the cpu? or is there no sci?
01:34:36amiconnThe CPU is a bit faster (12MHz instead of 11.0592 MHz), *but*
01:34:53amiconnthe MMC is also hooked up to SCI (second port)
01:35:11amiconnThat means the same limitation, and bitswapping twice (!)
01:35:41amiconnI'm thinking about archos_mmc_multimedia_data_mode for file reading, delivering the swapped data
01:35:49herz42you could dig into the disk drivers and remove bitswapping there :)
01:36:04amiconnIn fact *I* wrote the rockbox MMC driver :)
01:36:26herz42ah, then it is a merely two hour job, is it? :)
01:41:16amiconnRemoving the swap should be simple
01:41:26amiconnOr rather, make it switchable
01:42:08amiconnThe file system layer needs to know about it. It has to switch back & forth depending on whether it's reading control structures or user data
01:42:12 Quit quobl_ (SendQ exceeded)
01:42:40herz42probably the non data will be the problem then, eg. mp3 tags or wav headers etc. and of course the control structures...
01:42:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:43:17amiconnThe metadata needs some more thoughts, but I don't expect problems
01:43:27amiconnAs said, the mode should be switchable anyway.
01:43:56amiconnWe'd start reading the file normally, and when it comes to reading the actual pcm data, we'd switch off the swap
01:44:30gunpowdaif I'd like to over-write the rockbox firmware
01:44:34herz42I'm just not sure, if metadata can always be seperated already when reading. But it is probably true in most cases
01:44:40amiconnThe biggest probel I can see is partial blocks
01:44:43gunpowdado I need to restore my original backup and then write my changed rb firmware?
01:44:51gunpowdaor can I just go from rockbox a to rockbox b?
01:45:08midkaygunpowda, a new rockbox.ipod or .iriver will work.
01:45:19amiconngunpowda: Just unzip the new rockbox build to your device and reboot
01:45:22midkaybootloader only needs to be installed once, then it loads the rockbox.whatever from disk..
01:45:33gunpowdanono, this would be rockboot.bin
01:45:43gunpowdaI want to change the bootloader
01:46:09midkayassuming you have a new working rockboot.bin, you should be able to just write it.. correct me if i'm wrong..
01:46:15midkayit contains everything you need
01:46:19midkayafaik :)
01:46:54sharpewouldn't it be funny if you were wrong midkay, and his whole life ended up ruined because of it? :)
01:47:03lostlogicIs there some reasonably standardw ay to specify parameter function in C comments (similar to javadoc standard)?
01:47:09 Quit tianjing_ (Remote closed the connection)
01:47:10midkayyes, that'd be hi-lar-i-ous.. i'm hoping nobody corrects me and that i'm wrong. :)
01:47:42midkaylostlogic, btw.. i just read that your buffer-during-pause update broke pausing after the first time you use it..
01:48:10lostlogicmidkay: hmph... *retests*
01:48:39 Quit Moos ("Glory to Rockbox !!!")
01:49:03gunpowdaworks...perfectly :D
01:49:26midkaygunpowda, bootloader or pausing?
01:49:28webguest52lostlogic: You could use the format expected by doxygen?
01:49:33webguest52(Whatever that may be)
01:49:40midkaygood :)
01:50:36 Join Moos [0] (
01:50:52lostlogicok, who can tell me what the doxygen format is?
01:51:13amiconngoogle, perhaps
01:51:17lostlogic(I'm currently GUIless and hate using links for googling)
01:51:42sharpeohes noes!
01:52:16kclafDoxygen is a documentation system for C++, C, Java, IDL (Corba and
01:52:16kclafMicrosoft flavors). Code that has been documented using Doxygen tags are
01:52:17kclafparsed by Doxygen to create html, latex, rtf and man page help
01:52:17DBUGEnqueued KICK kclaf
01:52:17kclafdocumentation. The html documentation has a variety of graphical tools
01:52:17kclafmaking it easy to jump around to the code that you are interested in.
01:52:48lostlogicpause seems to work fine here
01:52:57gunpowdamidkay, I wanted to get the original firmware booting by default
01:53:15midkaylostlogic, pause, unpause, pause, unpause.. a couple times.. working fine still?
01:53:28lostlogicmidkay: yes
01:53:29midkaygunpowda, ah.
01:53:34midkaylet me dig it up..
01:54:03sharpebetter use a shovel, midkay.
01:54:04gunpowdaso I changed if ((i!=BUTTON_MENU) && (i!=BUTTON_PLAY)) { boot rockbox }
01:54:16gunpowdato if (i==BUTTON_MENU) {... }
01:54:24lostlogicah, Is ee the problem... pausing when playback is currently not running doesn't actually pause with the cahnge.
01:54:35gunpowdaexcept now the original firmware is booted even when I hold down the menu button
01:54:38midkaylostlogic, ah.. maybe it's just that the numbers keep counting..
01:54:49lostlogicmidkay: numbers?
01:55:02midkaylostlogic, playing time?
01:55:02amiconnAs expected - 44.1kHz wav stutters on Ondio
01:55:07midkay"The next times you try to pause will end up in not hearing the music but seeing the time running by."
01:55:20lostlogicmidkay: I think the reporter is on crack
01:55:25 Quit Kohlrabi (Nick collision from services.)
01:55:33lostlogicmidkay: oh, I lied
01:55:34 Join Kohlrabi [0] (
01:55:37amiconnBut hey, it works, and even on Ondio SP. That means MAS3539F is indeed similar enough to MAS3587F
01:55:37midkaylostlogic, haha.
01:55:48midkayamiconn, bah, and cool.. :)
01:55:55lostlogicmidkay: ok, both are fairly minor bugs, and I'll make sure that a future update fixes them.
01:56:04gunpowdamidkay, any ideas?
01:56:10midkaylostlogic, cool. :)
01:56:10 Quit webguest68 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:56:12lostlogicmidkay: the time will keep movign sorta whiel the pcmbuffer continues filling while audio is paused
01:56:14gunpowdaI might switch play with menu and see what happens
01:56:17midkaygunpowda, the menu button can be tricky..
01:56:30midkayyou need to press it quickly.. it can take me up to like 6-8 tries to get it..
01:56:35midkaywhich imo should be.. changed..
01:56:58gunpowdapress and hold down? how quick?
01:57:00midkaymaybe give the user a second instead of a slot of time between 50ms and 60ms after initializing startup..
01:57:07gunpowdaI'm just wondering if there's an error in my logic
01:57:08midkaypress, release, then press/hold. quickly.
01:59:28 Join DJ_Dooms_Day [0] (
01:59:28 Quit midkay (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:59:30 Join JdGordon [0] (
01:59:32herz42did anybody start to get the battery status on ipods (nano/video) more accurate?
01:59:58scottderI didn't think battery was in yet?
02:00:09sharpeit's been in for a while...
02:00:10herz42there is a battery in :)
02:00:13 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
02:00:21herz42and the status code too...
02:00:22gunpowdaI like the time-based display
02:00:39scottderOk I am running the latest daily build....and it's not working
02:00:42herz42just the numbers are not quite matching reality
02:00:56lostlogicmidkay: shit, it's worse, stupid bug.
02:00:59herz42I think for nano it's just a patch yet
02:01:26scottderNo biggy for me...I have yet to run out of juice while at work
02:01:39scottder-q 4 ogg vorbis mostly ...last a good long while
02:01:39midkaylostlogic, all from removing four or five lines of code.. :( tricky to fix?
02:02:05lostlogicmidkay: slightly tricky to fix right, but I'll nail it to the wall tonight
02:02:06herz42patch for nano:
02:02:12sharpehmm... i'm going to make a cygwin install on my usb drive.
02:03:12scottderAhh I don't build my own from src, just use daily builds
02:03:14scottderI am lazy :)
02:03:15midkaylostlogic, haha. good luck. :)
02:05:21gunpowdamidkay, interesting
02:05:27gunpowdaI edited the file to give me more info
02:05:32midkaygunpowda, hm?
02:05:58gunpowdathe bootloader
02:06:09gunpowdaand the reason it's booting the original firmware is because all other options failed
02:06:19midkay'all other options'?
02:06:32gunpowda- /* If everything else failed, try the original firmware */
02:06:37herz42lostlogic: do you know why the battery voltage reading on ipv doesn't get above 4.21V?
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02:06:59midkaygunpowda, that's if rockbox is set to boot by default and it's not found.
02:07:11midkaythen it falls back on the original firmware..
02:07:28herz42It is quite anoying, as the charging continues while the voltage is still at top level
02:07:31 Quit Kohlrabi ("Fast alle Menschen sind Regenw├╝rmer")
02:08:23gunpowdaI wonder why rockboot wouldn't be found
02:08:32 Join TCK [0] (
02:08:32midkayrockboot? rockbox?
02:08:48gunpowdabox. got confused with rockboot.bin
02:08:55midkaygunpowda, if it's booting the original firmware by default.. that comment doesn't apply.
02:09:06midkaydid you tell menu to load rockbox?
02:09:14gunpowdait's on there ('rockbox.ipod')
02:09:45gunpowdaif ((i!=BUTTON_MENU) && (i!=BUTTON_PLAY)) { boot rockbox } -> if (i==BUTTON_MENU) {... }
02:09:47midkaydid you manage to load the default OS before reflashing with your custom loader, to get a feel for the timing needed on pressing MENU?
02:10:18gunpowdabut midkay, I don't think the timing applies because otherwise it wouldn't have shown me that final line
02:10:32gunpowdaI edited that bit to say 'something has gone wrong, booting original'
02:10:43gunpowdaand that comes up even before I press any buttons
02:10:59amiconnherz42: A LiIon / LiPoly battery is 100% full at 4.10 .. 4.20V (exact value depending on the brand)
02:11:08midkay'that bit'? when is it supposed to print that?
02:11:24gunpowda /* If everything else failed, try the original firmware */
02:11:24gunpowda lcd_puts(0, line, "Loading original firmware...");
02:11:42amiconnThe voltage must not go higher, otherwise the battery would be destroyed (may self-ignite, or even explode)
02:11:54 Join unhcr [0] (
02:11:55midkaygunpowda, if menu boots rockbox and you're not pressing it, then it's going to go to the default firmware, of course...?...
02:11:59unhcrhey all
02:12:03unhcrgreat job on the x5!
02:12:09unhcrwas any more progress made on the audio driver?
02:12:16herz42amiconn: yes, but the charger ic still signals that it's charging
02:12:33 Join Kohlrabi [0] (
02:12:36amiconnThen charge-end detection doesn't work properly
02:12:41midkayyou'll read about it in 'recent cvs commits' if it's updated, and probably the news section of the front page if it begins working..
02:12:50amiconnThe charger itself switches off for sure (in hardware)
02:13:01herz42amiconn: charge detection is hw in ipods
02:13:09herz42it's a signal from the charger
02:13:40amiconnherz42: Then it's perhaps in the top-off phase
02:13:43gunpowdaI'm pressing pretty quickly. and I never had trouble with the menu button before
02:13:44herz42so it's hard to understand that charging still goes on, while power is 100% (4,2V) already
02:13:54midkaygunpowda, you didn't answer me - did you try booting the original OS with 'menu' before swapping out the standard bootloader with your modified one?
02:14:03amiconnVoltage won't rise above 4.20V, but charging current will still flow, decreasing over time
02:14:08gunpowdawhat, ever? yeah
02:14:31midkaygunpowda, .. 'nope' in what sense if the real answer is 'yes'?
02:14:32herz42amiconn: it seems to be something like this. I have no idea which charging algorithms are used for liion...
02:14:42gunpowdaI thought you meant immediately before
02:14:43amiconnIf the current falls below a certain threshold, the charger will finally signal 'fully charged'
02:14:48gunpowdaI did, a day or so ago
02:15:20midkaygunpowda, well.. i'd try a number more times. it once took me about ten tries, maybe 15% of the time even maybe 5 or more..
02:15:36herz42amiconn: I think that's also what I see on my amp-meter
02:15:41 Quit unhcr (Client Quit)
02:16:50herz42so to do it correctly the charge monitoring would have to do more than just read voltage and translate to %, but switch to a top-off time delay
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02:18:41midkaygunpowda, also try extending the button scan delay if possible..
02:18:48midkayanyways, i need to go for a bit.. be back.
02:18:52midkaygood luck.
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02:24:06gunpowdaPaul_The_Nerd, do you know about the boot process?
02:24:22gunpowdaI'm probably going to extend the delay, as midkay suggested
02:26:05Paul_The_Nerdgunpowda: Extend the delay?
02:26:19gunpowdaI changed one line in the code
02:26:32gunpowdaif ((i!=BUTTON_MENU) && (i!=BUTTON_PLAY)) { boot rockbox } -> if (i==BUTTON_MENU) {... }
02:26:46gunpowdabut now it always comes up as booting original hardware
02:27:04gunpowdaso either my button press isn't being detected or there's something wrong
02:27:28lostlogicherz42: I didn't read the whole convo, but 4.21 is the battery's maximum voltage, that's how the LiPoly charge cycle works, constant current up to 4.2v then constant voltage until the current drawn drops below 3% (by spec) 5% (in most commercial chargers to improve safety and battery cycles)
02:27:32Paul_The_Nerdgunpowda: And you were familiar with the timing you needed to press it before?
02:27:48gunpowdayeah, I'm pretty sure I was
02:28:17gunpowdaI change the code for better messages and it's doing the /* If everything else failed, try the original firmware */ part.
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02:29:32 Quit DrMoos ("Glory to Rockbox !!!")
02:30:06gunpowdaoh god
02:30:15gunpowdamidkay was absolutely right
02:30:22gunpowda25 button presses later I get rockbox to boot
02:30:39herz42lostlogic: do you think it makes sense to handle the last phase in a special way, or just display 'almost full' when 4.21V are reached and 'full' when charger switches off?
02:30:52Paul_The_Nerdgunpowda: You do wake the ipod by pressing menu, then immediately press and hold menu, right?
02:31:32 Join [TCK] [0] (
02:31:44Paul_The_Nerdgunpowda: So, put in a sleep(hz); or something.
02:32:47lostlogicherz42: we don't afaik have a way of reading precisely the charging current to determine percentage complete. However the battery should read ~4.2v for the latter 2/3 of the charge cycle (when using AC) and the latter 1/2 when using USB
02:32:53sharpeamazingly, in percentage it seems like my usb drive and second hdd are the same...
02:33:22sharpewhich, they are not, but to cygwin they apparantly are :)
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02:39:14herz42lostlogic: Is that info from the datasheet? I was meassuring a shorter top-off phase (did only ac)
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02:45:09lostlogicherz42: that's from the charge properties of LiPoly cells... probably practical application will have a rapid increase in voltage up to 4.15 or so then get to 4.2 at some point during the 'constant voltage' portion
02:45:52BHSPitLappygunpowda: what are you doing to the bootloader now?
02:46:31gunpowdait works
02:46:46gunpowdabut you need to get the timing just right, which is unfortunate
02:47:41BHSPitLappyit was already like that.
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02:47:55BHSPitLappyI've actually had better luck on my 5G than with the nano
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02:48:58lostlogicbagh, why is preglow's fiq changing the pause status of playback!?
02:51:07gunpowdaBHSPitLappy, I think the solution is hacking the bootloader so the delay is kinder
02:51:29gunpowdaor pausing at the screen and waiting for user input (not great)
02:51:45gunpowdaor using the hold switch and getting rid of all that clear settings stuff
02:52:02Paul_The_NerdBHSPitLappy: You might want to put a sleep(hz); or sleep(hz*2); before the key detection bit. It'll slow the start by 1 or 2 seconds depending, but it'll give you a bit more time to press and hold the button
02:52:24Paul_The_NerdBHSPitLappy: If it really is too quick
02:52:26gunpowdawhat's hz, paul?
02:52:58Paul_The_Nerdgunpowda: Frequency. Inside sleep() hz basically means 1 second
02:53:47midkaygunpowda, haha.
02:53:51midkaytolllllldddddjaaa... :)
02:54:02gunpowdalol, yeah, I know.
02:54:14gunpowdanow I'm just wondering where to put the delay
02:54:19BHSPitLappyHz, to be politically correct ;)
02:54:22gunpowdanot sure about the key detection bit
02:54:43gunpowdaprobably at timer check
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02:55:43Adityaanyone in here ever programmed in OCaml?
02:55:45BHSPitLappygunpowda: look at static int key_pressed(void)
02:55:59BHSPitLappygunpowda: pretty much in the beginning of that function.
02:56:00 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
02:56:19Paul_The_Nerdgunpowda: It should *probably* go right before the i= line that assigns it a value
02:56:30midkaybe back in a bit, again..
02:56:36BHSPitLappythe i= actually comes later
02:56:47BHSPitLappyit just renames a variable set in that function I mentioned.
02:57:11BHSPitLappyerr, wait...
02:57:50Paul_The_NerdBHSPitLappy: Yeah, but key_pressed isn't called until the i= line anyway, so you have until that function is called for the yield, may as well not include it in the function.
02:58:09Paul_The_NerdErr s/yield/sleep
02:58:11BHSPitLappythe sleep should come before the hardware read, right?
02:58:20BHSPitLappyoh, nvm
02:58:22gunpowdaI think it should go at the beginning of main
02:58:22Paul_The_NerdBHSPitLappy: Isn't the hardware read done in the function?
02:58:40BHSPitLappyPaul_The_Nerd: an even better idea would be to have it sleep until a button is pressed :P
02:58:53BHSPitLappyand timeout to a default after x seconds
02:59:03BHSPitLappyI guess it's the same concept.
02:59:07gunpowdathat's basically what we have now
02:59:22BHSPitLappythere's theoretically no difference other than code... lol
02:59:29BHSPitLappyme ftw
02:59:33midkayfor(x=0; x<20; x++) { read_buttons(); sleep(HZ/10); }
02:59:52midkaygives you 2 seconds to press a key before booting original OS, for example..
03:00:44gunpowdawould sleep(2); work?
03:00:56midkaynot in the same way.
03:01:03sharpefor two seconds, anyway.
03:01:03gunpowdait didn't compile when I had hz*2
03:01:08gunpowdacase sensitive then?
03:01:13midkayyes, case sensitive..sleep(HZ*2)
03:01:53midkaysleep(HZ*2) will 'freeze' for 2 seconds.
03:01:59midkaythe for-loop will "wait" for two seconds, but still detect buttons.
03:02:01midkaysleep(HZ*2) is just about pointless.. it will simply wait until two seconds are up and move on.
03:02:23midkaythe for loop will wait 1/10s, 20 times. reading buttons each time.
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03:03:42Paul_The_NerdSee, I would've just put gotos right after the conditional, instead of changing the condition, so that they swapped paths.
03:03:54Paul_The_NerdThat way the function would be *exactly* the same, it'd just have different results
03:05:00gunpowdasleep is a bad idea
03:05:32gunpowdasleep(HZ*2); has just frozen the bootloader
03:05:43gunpowdait's not doing anything and it's been about a minute
03:05:45midkayfor 2 seconds, or.. completely?
03:06:17gunpowdawhat about udelay();
03:06:25gunpowdaI saw that referenced in the code but commented out
03:06:50sharpeif you use it, you'll die.
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03:08:16Paul_The_NerdTry udelay then
03:08:37Paul_The_NerdI think sleep is maybe not defined.
03:08:48Paul_The_NerdThough it seems like that would cause compiler issues
03:09:33gunpowda[02:09] <josh_> HZ is about 100
03:09:43gunpowda[02:09] <josh_> just sleep(2)
03:10:13JdGordonsleep(2) will sleep for 2 ticks, which is nothing....
03:10:39gunpowdaI just need two seoncds
03:10:58JdGordonthn HZ*2
03:11:42JdGordonmidkay was right about the loop tho.. sleep(HZ*2) would do bugger all for 2 sec.. then continue.. it wouldnt let u press a key in the 2 sec..
03:11:53JdGordonunless your not still talking about the ipod booting thing?
03:12:05midkayJdGordon, right.. nobody seems to be paying much attention to me.. :)
03:12:15JdGordonsilly buggers :D
03:12:39midkayah well, got to go afk a bit anyways.. :)
03:12:40Paul_The_NerdJdGordon: You basically have to hold the key until you see "Loading Original Firmware" anyway. The idea was to give them more time to start holding it, rather than spend that whole time searching for individual keytaps
03:12:52sharpebye byes
03:12:56Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: See my explanation to JdGordon for why I suggested that way. ;-)
03:13:07midkayPaul_The_Nerd, yes.. but. i think we should have a timeout..
03:13:29midkaye.g. start loading.. then just say "Press MENU to load original firmware" and wait a second or two.. else just continue w/ loading rockbox..
03:13:36JdGordonoh, ok
03:13:47Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: It's a cheap hack to make RetailOS load instead of RB as the default. I'm not looking for elegance in something that's only going to be used for a few months, maybe.
03:14:12midkayPaul_The_Nerd, ah, i still think it should be.. you know.. 'fixed'.. sooner than a few months. :)
03:14:21midkayso damn annoying..
03:14:35Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Well, the "fix" is that Rockbox will support everything and you don't need to go into retail at all
03:14:45Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: The idea is for Rockbox to boot as *quickly* as possible.
03:14:58midkayPaul_The_Nerd, ah, H.264 videos?.. hopefully..
03:15:20midkayPaul_The_Nerd, quick is one thing. it's like.. i forget.. like 6-8 seconds currently? what's one more second..
03:15:25Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Yes, well if they want Retail OS, they should use Retail OS.
03:15:34Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: It's about 2-3 on my Nano...
03:15:39midkayPaul_The_Nerd, what if they want to switch?
03:15:39sharpewhat takes 6-8 seconds?
03:15:41JdGordon hahah
03:15:52midkayi use Rockbox for music... and it doesn't support video, i need retailos for that.
03:15:58Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: They then use iPodLinux's Loader2, which lets you pick a default, set a timeout, and have a menu.
03:16:14midkayPaul_The_Nerd, that's cool, but why doesn't rockbox do that? semi-frustrating for users, i think..
03:16:15AdityaJdGordon: if you use slashdot for anything other than entertainment.. you are a retard
03:17:11Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Because Rockbox's bootloader is specifically for loading Rockbox. Why reproduce functionality elsewhere, especially when Rockbox is aimed as a replacement firmware. The idea is that "when it's done" you'll never use Retail. So, why add stopgap features that ideally will be removed later anyway?
03:17:54sharpebye bye, portable openoffice install... *sniff*
03:18:09midkayPaul_The_Nerd, "when it's done" isn't going to be in a few days, a few months, probably not within a year. a few minutes of coding to save a hell of a lot of hassle? what's the big deal? "will be removed later anyway" - ooh, that's hard, um, delete three lines of code and cvs commit?...
03:18:15Adityaopenoffice.. just go and buy a student version of MS office..
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03:18:36sharpei don't know why i had it on my usb drive, never used it...
03:18:37Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: But why add a menu, if the menu's already available? Nobody *makes* them use Rockbox.
03:18:58midkaynot a menu. a simple pause and prompt to press a button to load retailos.
03:18:58Paul_The_NerdAditya: Maybe some people actually prefer not spending *any* money, and still being legal.
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03:19:18Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Takes longer. To some of us, an extra second is annoying, since we *don't* use Retail ever
03:19:28sharpei like the current loader midkay...
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03:19:48midkayto the very large number who do.. i think it would save a lot of frustration and questions..
03:19:59Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Why not just put up a tutorial for installing with Loader2?
03:20:40midkayPaul_The_Nerd, there is no reason not to. i think it's silly that you time your booting to the millisecond, but that's just me.
03:21:08Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Not to the millisecond, but I'd rather not intentionally introduce delays to appease a group that already has a solution to their problems, if they'd just be bothered to spend some time researching
03:21:56Paul_The_NerdThe design philosophy behind the bootloaders on every Rockbox target has been to have the best possible boot time. An intentional delay doesn't exactly fit that.
03:22:37sharpehmm... i just grabbed my gumby figurine instead of my drink... that may mean something...
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03:22:48Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: Is the drink alcoholic?
03:22:58sharpeand it's empty too
03:23:08sharpetis a pepsi, i'd prefer coke though.
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03:23:37Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: Ew. DrPepper or nothing. Heh
03:23:52midkayPaul_The_Nerd, ok.. anyways.. gotta do that AFK thing still.. laters for the last time. *gone* :)
03:23:58gunpowdasleep or no sleep, I've got this to work quite nicely now
03:23:59Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: cya later
03:24:00sharpei stopped drinking Dr Pepper a while ago, not sure why...
03:24:06sharpebye bye midkay
03:24:06gunpowdaso now it's time for some real sleep
03:24:20gunpowdaif anyone wants it I'll stick it on the site later
03:24:20sharpeyou can use the sleep function to sleep!
03:24:28Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: DrPepper, Orange Juice, Limeade, Milk, or Water. That's about the range of my beverage choices.
03:25:07sharpehmm... water, coke, pepsi, chocolate milk, milk, and that's about it for me.
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03:25:17lostlogicany ipod or iriver users want to test some revised pause management code?
03:25:33Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Pause management? Also, I have an H120 *and* an iPod Nano...
03:25:36sharpei hesitate...
03:25:49lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: you rock, and you can build your own builds if I just give you a patch too, right?
03:26:16Paul_The_NerdI've arranged an Archos Jukebox Recorder too, but haven't gotten ahold of it yet
03:26:18CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
03:26:18*webguest52 has a h120
03:27:08lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: should fix pause bugs introduced by my earlier allow pcmbuf filling during pause change
03:27:23lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: might also fix some other bugs we didn't know existed.
03:28:55Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Okay, just gotta cvs up first
03:28:56webguest52So what should be tested?
03:31:30Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: +2 points for applying cleanly. :)
03:31:46lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: I've actually gotten my local tree close to in sync with CVS lately
03:31:51webguest52compiled fine as well
03:32:07webguest52And seems to work fine
03:32:13webguest52Not sure what bugs I'm trying to find though
03:32:21lostlogicwebguest52: does pause work, can you recreate any effed-upness with pause leaving playback running, or muting but not pausing, or resuming playback at unexpected times, or anything like that
03:32:28Paul_The_NerdI had to break my compile. I keep forgetting to reset my clock, accursed vmware
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03:32:40Paul_The_Nerdwebguest52: What target are you trying on?
03:33:01webguest52Pause/unpause works, pause stops playbac
03:33:12webguest52It doesn't seem to unpause
03:33:20Paul_The_NerdUnpause doesn't work?
03:33:33webguest52By accident, that is
03:34:05webguest52You could install ntpdate, that'll sync from ntp on each boot
03:34:18webguest52"or resuming playback at unexpected times" .. that doesn't happen
03:34:21webguest52whatever it is
03:34:28webguest52Pause is working just dandy afaic
03:34:40Paul_The_Nerdwebguest52: It's not boots that's the problem. The HWClock is fine, but the time returned by "date" is off since VMWare just suspends the whole system
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03:34:52Paul_The_Nerdif I hwclock −−hctosys everything's fine again
03:34:55lostlogicgood god, I just posted a repeatable oops to LKML and AKPM responded to me within 10m... I feel special.
03:35:05lostlogicwebguest52: try skipping tracks with pause paused, any weirdness?
03:35:47webguest52Paul_The_Nerd: Ah, I almost always shutdown for some reason
03:35:48*Paul_The_Nerd goes to test it on ipod then
03:35:54webguest52lostlogic: nope, at least it worked fine just now
03:36:02lostlogicwebguest52: thanks
03:36:37lostlogicone of these days I gotta unify pcm_playback.c between ipod and iriver −− the code is nearly identical and it _sucks_ having it all duplicated.
03:37:18Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Pause/Unpause, Pause/Next/Unpause, Pause/Seek/Unpause all seem to work excellent.
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03:38:01Paul_The_NerdPause/Seek/Next/Seek/Next/Unpause even worked. So if there's anything crazy hiding out, it's not easily triggerable, I think
03:38:11lostlogicgood, thanks a lot guys
03:38:25Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: NO
03:38:38Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Oh, wait, nevermind
03:39:05Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: I thought my playback was doing crazy things, but my Nano's case doesn't like this headphone jack, and had worked it out, so suddenly playback *seemed* to mute. Sorry
03:39:26Paul_The_NerdI'm using my really cruddy KTXPRO1s, and they don't quite fit the gap in the iSkin
03:39:28lostlogictryin' to give me a heart attack
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03:41:46midkaylostlogic, also, you should close that bug report.. if you didn't yet. :)
03:42:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:44:39lostlogicmidkay: got a link? searchign flyspray gui-less sounds not fun
03:45:17midkaylostlogic, bah, no, i'll go find it again.. i can just close it myself.. :)
03:46:27lostlogicthanks... Gentoo went and upgraded me to xorg modular, and I'm too stupid to make it work right :-\ (also too lazy as I code in vim any way)
03:47:15midkaylostlogic, np. hmm.. that sucks, i guess. :)
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03:50:46 Part Paul_The_Nerd
03:50:49lostlogicI get the feelign that days are going to be going like this as I work on the swcodec playback: think I fix somethign in the morning, spend the evening fixing the fix, lather, rinse, repeat until playback works consistently no matter what the user throws at it.
03:51:17midkaylostlogic, haha. shouldn't take you too long. :)
03:51:38midkayon a side note, anyone at work on anything speshul for rockbox? :)
03:51:57midkayi was/am hoping to see a rush of features before the freeze in a few weeks or whatever.. :)
03:52:25lostlogicwouldn't bet on it... what we put in the devcon notes and 3.0 release stuff on the wiki is about all we spect to have tim efor
03:52:40JdGordonput in my text editor plugin!
03:52:43midkayeven just little things..
03:52:54midkayJdGordon, it's so unbelievably awful i couldn't even consider it..
03:53:03midkayjust kidding, i haven't even looked at or tried it yet. :)
03:53:07JdGordonthanx (y)
03:56:19FlashHaterwill Rockbox play fairplay'd files?
03:57:35FlashHaternvmind, I rtfm'd
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04:03:25sharpei've come to the conclusion, it's impossible to remove X11 items from the cygwin install while in setup.
04:04:23sharpewhy must i try to make a smaller enviornment for my usb drive...
04:05:29midkayget a bigger usb drive? :)
04:06:09sharpein the next... seven hours when all reasonable stores are closed... sure! :)
04:11:34sharpeokay, hopefully i got rid of the x11 stuff...
04:14:18sharpeyay! only 163 megs
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04:16:27sharpeheh, i love the time estimates windows gives me for copying files... at first, 102 minutes, a few seconds later, 20 minutes, now, 25 minutes.
04:18:44webguest52I'm fairly sure those estimates generate more randomly distributed numbers than any other known source
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04:22:04sharpehmm... we should test them for their randomness.
04:22:43sharpei got two new pencils today.
04:22:48scottdersharpe: Microsoft Time
04:22:51sharpei lost the one i had before.
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04:23:43sharpei just thought everyone would like to know that.
04:23:57scottderAh quaint
04:24:34sharpe... i think i just saw a file that had 'LOL' in it's filename in the cygwin installation.
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04:44:53sharpeyay everyone...
04:47:50*webguest52 thinks the VMware image should include a small note in /etc/motd that tells which packages to install if you want sim (libsdl1.2-dev) and manual (tetex-bin tetex-extras)
04:48:01webguest52And also a quick "what's where" note
04:48:28webguest52No custom aliases though!
04:48:35webguest52Or there'll be devkit problems all over again
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04:56:30DrumRBoy^^ dont mind savagnator
04:56:30savagenatorhello, my name is savagenator, and i have a few questions about programs that involved rockbox
04:56:35DrumRBoyhes slightly insane
04:56:38savagenatorhello DRB
04:56:58DrumRBoyreally, disregard him... hes an escapee from #misticriver on
04:57:41savagenatormy question is: why cant when there is a song playing in a playlist that is in another place in the player, that when you press the nevi button why cant it go to that song
04:57:48savagenatorif you need me to rephrase i will do
04:58:08 Join qwm [0] (
04:58:14savagenatorand again: why cant i get the email for the rockbox forums activation
04:58:15webguest52It can.
04:58:22webguest52Set "Follow playlist" to on
04:58:28savagenatorwhere is that setting?
04:58:44webguest52Hrm.. under file view or somesuch
04:59:22webguest52Yeah, General Settings > File View > Follow Playlist
04:59:24savagenatorand i need directory catch on...where is that? i found it once, but i updated and cleared the settings since then
04:59:29savagenatori got it
04:59:38webguest52System > Disk
04:59:59webguest52No idea about the forum
05:00:09savagenatorthank you
05:00:33savagenatoris there any way for someone to email it to me? i try about once a day for the email to come
05:01:24 Join Rob2222 [0] (
05:01:29webguest52Maybe you should try another email?
05:02:08webguest52I guess you need to get hold of jeff
05:02:14savagenatorno good, i want that specific email and thats my only email
05:02:33savagenatori want that specific *screen name*
05:03:53savagenatorok, thanks for you help
05:04:12savagenatorDRB: i'm not insane, i'm agely impaired
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05:06:54sharpei've got my portable cygwin enviornment set up...
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05:33:16*webguest52 quickly zooms to line 1023
05:34:52lostlogicI should sleep.
05:35:54*webguest52 is opposed to installing X and tetex in the VMware image
05:36:06webguest52Not taht it's my call to make, I just believe it would be a waste
05:38:06*lostlogic concurs... whatsagui?
05:39:33mymomthelushgraphical user interface
05:39:35mymomthelushaka the pictures
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05:41:59lostlogicHmm... I just converted playback.c to use unsigned values for sizes, it compiles... think it plays?
05:42:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:43:48lostlogicholy shit. it plays.
05:43:48webguest52Well, 1) It'd bloat the image 2) Not everyone needs the SDL sim 3) Note veryone needs tetex 4) it can all be downloaded and installed by a few apt-gets
05:44:01webguest52lostlogic: want h120 testing?
05:44:38lostlogicwebguest52: oh hell, whynot. I'm sure tehre's stuff I broke, specially in voice, but I want sleep, so email me your results. :)
05:46:06webguest52alright, I'll email any errors, so no news is good news!
05:46:41lostlogicthanks, do you have voice testing capability?
05:46:53lostlogicif so that'd be useful, if not, I'll of course do it eventually.
05:47:16webguest52not really, now
05:47:24webguest52unless there's an old voicefile I can use
05:48:27webguest52hrm, didn't apply cleanly
05:48:40 Part nnod ("Leaving")
05:48:43lostlogicthis one's more intrusive... do you ahve other patches applied?
05:49:08webguest52apps/playback.h and apps/codecs/flac.c told me "reversed or previously applied patch detected'"
05:49:09webguest52no, none
05:51:52lostlogicit'll apply, stupid CVS ID dumbness
05:53:00webguest52Oh, that's a good one
05:53:07lostlogicsee here for
05:53:12lostlogicwhat's a good one?
05:53:22webguest52The cvs dumbness
05:54:28lostlogicyeah, I think someone knows why that happens, but it isn't me
05:54:31lostlogicanywho, I sleep.
05:54:33lostlogicthanks for testign!
05:55:06*webguest52 punches patch
05:57:12webguest52can't figure out how to apply that patch :-\
06:00:29webguest52oh god dammit
06:00:41webguest52I'm an idiot
06:05:31 Join odoyletul [0] (
06:06:09odoyletuli need some help i wanted to get a archos jukebox with a dead hard drive
06:06:49odoyletuli need to know if this one i am bidding for just has hard drive problems or if it is the shell
06:07:07odoyletulthe shell is all i am interested in working
06:07:34sharpeohes noes! i only have five hours to sleep...
06:08:02sharpebye everyone, be back saturday or so.
06:08:14odoyletulthis is what was stated: PLAYER POWERS ON, BUT READS "HD ERROR" Computer also does not recognize.
06:08:37odoyletulcould this be a problem with the shell
06:08:49 Join rUiSu [0] (
06:08:56odoyletulor just the hard drive
06:09:20webguest52That patch of lostlogic's seems to work. Guess he won't be getting any mail from me. Testing with voice. Working with and without music playback.
06:09:22rUiSuman, such a hasle just to make a simple window... C its just too mucho to learn in a day
06:09:32*webguest52 doesn't know anything about the archos devices
06:10:08odoyletulanybody here know about archos mp3 players
06:11:03odoyletuli would love to have the rockbox os on my current mp3 player but that don't look like it is in the cards
06:11:37webguest52It's still early in Europe, more people will probably show up in a few hours
06:12:16odoyletulis there a room or website that someone can point me to for archos help
06:13:02 Quit rUiSu (Client Quit)
06:13:10webguest52You could try in the rockbox forums I guess
06:13:20webguest52or on the mailinglist
06:13:38webguest52or just wait a few hours until people show up
06:14:10JdGordonwebguest52: its like 5am or something in sweden where most of the ppl are...
06:14:57webguest526am in all of western europe, 5am in the UK (and portugal I believe)
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06:16:42odoyletulis the rockbox os going to be ported to a nomad jukebox 2lx anytime soon
06:17:11webguest52Not unless someone does the work.
06:18:03odoyletulwhat do u guys run rockbox on
06:18:32webguest52iriver h120
06:18:33JdGordoniriver :D
06:18:44webguest52If I were to get a new player now it'd probaby be a nano
06:18:57webguest52or a video, if I decided I wanted massive storage
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06:19:12odoyletulhow much do the iriver players typically cost
06:19:36*JdGordon would geta video... nice n small and huge storage
06:19:56webguest52No idea, they're not available new, so it'd all be secondhand.. you could check ebay
06:19:57odoyletuli would love to find a archos jukebox shell
06:20:14odoyletulthat would be nice
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06:21:01odoyletulcause i got a 60gb lappy hard drive sitting around
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07:08:03webguest52Real problem with the VMware environment: zip is not installed
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07:35:30Bg3rmorning )
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07:42:06amiconnmorning :)
07:42:35B4gdervery nice progress on the PCM front amiconn
07:42:49*B4gder got himself an x5 remote yday
07:42:52amiconnAlready tried it? ;)
07:42:54JdGordonare your clocks getting stuffed around with this w/e?
07:42:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:43:01amiconn(the PCM playback I mean)
07:43:17B4gderbeen too busy with other things
07:43:34amiconnWow, the build system distribution is really unpredictable. Last round my server did more builds than :)
07:43:57amiconnGot a lot of bootloaders it seems
07:43:59B4gder218 seconds
07:44:39B4gderthat's a moving average so we might still be decreasing
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07:46:40amiconndistributed.rockbox :)
07:47:02*webguest20 just tried using fbcon output for the sdlsim in vmware
07:47:05webguest20not very successful
07:47:17webguest20got a lot of screen corruption
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07:54:55B4gderthe daily build mirroring seems to work fine
07:54:55 Quit midkay_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
07:55:25B4gderwe rsync it over to the other server every morning
07:55:36B4gderthe other being
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07:55:59amiconnHah, I *can* hijack the vector table even when running rombox. I just have to copy the table into RAM and switch VBR
08:00:25amiconnBlah, the vectors are in RAM anyway
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08:06:16JdGordonis sweden + or -1 gmt?
08:06:30webguest20+1 currently
08:06:32webguest20+2 in dst
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08:24:00*B4gder shakes his fist at all crappily written configure scripts
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08:35:23Bg3rwtf there is a lcd_enable() in iPods with 2bpp, and it's used for backlight on/off ??
08:39:21webguest74Sounds bizarre
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08:44:45Bg3rB4gder any news about git/svn ?
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08:53:39*amiconn just spotted a *nasty* *ooold* bug in mas.c
08:54:11amiconnmas_writereg() is wrong for MAS3587F / MAS3539F
08:55:56amiconnThe only thing where mas_writereg() is used for MAS3587F in the core is the recording init 'blackmagic', so it went undetected...
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09:01:25LinusNamiconn: cool
09:02:29B4gderthe builds are so fast you can easily miss the build phase now ;-)
09:03:26amiconn213 seconds...
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09:10:07webguest74That's quick
09:12:12B4gdera few more servers and we could go sub 100! ;-)
09:12:19Bg3rthe 30 min builds now are just a bad memory from the past ... :)
09:13:06 Join damaki__ [0] (
09:14:19Mode"#RockBox +o B4gder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
09:14:44Topic"Rockbox cvs builds puts your idle server to use!" by B4gder (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder)
09:14:49amiconnB4gder: I doubt that. Now transfer speed becomes a concern
09:15:05B4gderthey don't transfer much for the non-zip cases
09:15:26B4gderjust two little logs
09:15:55amiconnyes, but the target builds do
09:16:33amiconn...and you only have 2Mbps which all external build boxes have to fight for
09:17:08B4gderbut 2mbit is still 200KB/sec
09:17:17 Quit Sandemo ("gonk D:")
09:17:22B4gderthe biggest zips are 2MB
09:17:31amiconn16 target builds. A typical zip is 2MB
09:17:44B4gder7 targets are Archos zips
09:18:02amiconnPerhaps the build system should prefer sims and bootloaders for the external boxes?
09:18:24B4gderyes it should
09:18:59B4gderbut in fact I need better logs in general to better see how it actuall performs
09:19:38B4gderto see what we can tweak to improve I mean
09:20:48B4gderanother option is to fetch the zip files after the build is done
09:20:50 Part nnod ("Leaving")
09:21:03B4gderwhich I think is reasonable anyway
09:21:59B4gderit would just delay the next build start somewhat
09:22:02Mode"#RockBox +o t0mas " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
09:22:05Topic"Rockbox - We need idle servers! -->" by t0mas (n=tomas@rockbox/developer/t0mas)
09:22:21B4gderoh, t0mas is awake
09:22:27t0masjust woke up
09:23:38B4gdert0mas: you feel like taking a stab at moving the zip transfers post-build?
09:23:58t0maseh? you disabled them?
09:24:09B4gderno, they still transfer for bleeding cases
09:24:12t0masah ok
09:24:22B4gderbut we should transfer them after the builds are all done and taken care of
09:24:40t0masI have a prototype for that... at my work pc...
09:25:02t0masusing a semaphore perl locking thing... to get it to transfere 1 build during the next one
09:25:03B4gder16 zips x 2 makes 32MB over 200KB/sec makes some 160 seconds just for transfer
09:25:05t0masand then wait...
09:25:06 Quit Mikachu (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:25:37B4gderyou shouldn't transfer any zip until all builds are complete imho
09:25:42t0masah ok
09:25:57B4gderto maximize bandwidth use for the actual build
09:26:20t0masmust be easy...
09:26:57t0masI'll try this evening... or tomorrow mornin
09:27:02B4gdershould be fairly straight forward, yes
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09:27:10t0masstill have some personal things to take care of
09:27:29t0mas(explained in privmsg wednesday iirc?)
09:27:37B4gderI read it
09:28:03BHSPitLappyanyone know how to recover an itdb...
09:28:18BHSPitLappyI plugged in 2 ipods, and now it recognizes my ipod as my friend's.
09:29:08 Quit damaki_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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09:37:52amiconnI've cleaned up and code-policed the pcm plugin a bit.
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09:46:34B4gderanyone know of a capture/screenshot program that can capture a movie?
09:51:05*B4gder ponders capturing a movie out of a rockbox simulator session
09:52:03mnhnhyouhThere is one at we use at work. I dont know the name of it at the moment, but I can send an email to myself at work and get the name for you, but I wont be there until Thursday
09:52:19B4gderI'm in no hurry
09:52:26mnhnhyouhwill send it then
09:52:48 Join Moos [0] (
09:52:57MoosMorning here !
09:53:19amiconnB4gder: windows?
09:54:43B4gderthere's an x11rec program I think I'll try...
09:55:03CassandraBe nice if it recorded sound too.
09:55:25CassandraDoing a silent demo of Rockbox seems, erm ... inappropriate.
09:56:13B4gderclaims to be able to
09:57:05CassandraIt's evil Shareware though. :(
09:57:22B4gderWindows you know
09:57:32B4gdermake a tiny little thing and it is 30USD
09:58:16Zagorthere's a program people use to create movies from games. can't recall its' name...
09:58:45B4gderthe coolest thing would be to get rockbox audio and a voice commenting what happens
09:59:34B4gder"zis is how we pronoonce rokkbocks in sweeeediks"
10:00:28ZagorFRAPS is it.
10:01:13CassandraZagor: Looks like that's only for DirectX/OpenGL.
10:01:22LinusN"what are you sinking about?"
10:01:24CassandraWould it work with the sim?
10:01:53Zagordon't know. worth trying.
10:02:56CassandraThey also want money for it to remove watermarking.
10:03:32webguest74B4gder: byzanz and istanbul (no, I'm not making it up)
10:03:41webguest74Eh, wrong proper names
10:04:22webguest74Wait, no. Those were right.
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10:05:46webguest74both in Debian, I believe
10:06:10Zoide7777I read you were looking for a screen capture program... CamStudio ( is the best free program, AFAK
10:06:16webguest74Okay, Byzanz might not be so appropriate - records in gif :-\
10:06:44B4gdergifs is somewhat limited for the color sims
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10:07:44 Part mnhnhyouh
10:07:49CassandraI wonder if this is of any use -
10:08:13B4gderInstanbul records to Ogg videos
10:08:22webguest74Is this a problem?
10:08:36B4gderI don't know
10:09:09webguest74Wink might be interesting
10:09:26webguest74since it allows for commentary and such
10:10:18Zoide7777I think CamStudio also lets you do that, plus it even has a feature where the capture region can follow the mouse pointer
10:10:48Zoide7777(I used it recently so that's why I'm hyping it :D )
10:11:03Zoide7777(the program itself, though, I haven't really used the mouse feature)
10:11:25webguest74However, wink can produce flash files, which is excellent for web
10:11:29 Quit midkay_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:12:01B4gderanyone care to try one of those on a sim session?
10:12:22B4gderusing −−background I guess
10:12:59Zoide7777same with CamStudio, though. of course the two progs might have their own pros/cons, so i'd say try both
10:15:15Zoide7777has anyone had a chance to try the Unicode (w/ Chinese characters) font I uploaded to the tracker?
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10:15:30Zoide7777I think the default rockbox should have something more than just Unifont, which is huge imo
10:15:46 Nick tomas|school is now known as t0mas|school (
10:16:15webguest74How much does it include?
10:16:25webguest74Many characters
10:18:19webguest74I meant the new font
10:18:46Zoide7777i think what B4gder just said
10:19:15Zoide7777i don't remember how much it was but it was certainly in the multiples of 10,000 :D
10:19:31webguest74And it's smaller than unifont?
10:19:35webguest74Sounds lovely
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10:20:17webguest74This is latin-1+chinese only?
10:20:21webguest74That's not going to fly
10:20:22Zoide7777It's a pretty amazing set of fonts, with very readable chinese fonts and yet it's only 14 pixels
10:20:24Zoide7777well, for now
10:20:40Zoide7777i mainly did it for my own uses, then decided it might be useful for others
10:20:50Zoide7777the main idea was not to replace Unifont
10:20:57Zoide7777but to at least have an alternative
10:21:09webguest74Fair enough.. for Rockbox at leaset hebrew, cyrillic and greek is used.. and.. eh.. Korean
10:21:24 Quit nobelium (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:21:29webguest74Whatever those are called
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10:22:40Zoide7777i could try to incorporate those, but i've already spent too much time on rockbox-related things.. :/
10:23:24webguest74Heh, don't sweat it
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10:35:15tucozB4gder, did you know that you have to pay for the compiled GIMP for OSX? (regarding the sharware discussion)
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10:36:22Zagortucoz: same thing with xchat on windows
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10:36:51tucozZagor, really? We Linux users are lucky I guess.
10:37:19webguest74There are numerous Free builds of xchat for windows though
10:37:37webguest74I'd suspect the same goes for gimp
10:38:05Mikachuwouldn't it save bandwidth if the build servers used cvs instead?
10:38:19Mikachuor maybe you were talking about the built cvs being sent back...
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10:40:48markunZagor: is this illegal?
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10:41:49Mikachuwhat kind of weird license would xchat have to make that illegal?
10:42:01Mikachuassuming he also distributes source
10:42:17tucozX-Chat is GPL
10:42:32Mikachuthen a windows build with source can't be illegal
10:42:44MikachuQ. What if I compile my own version from the source code?
10:42:45MikachuA. You are quite welcome to do so, and redistribute it under the terms of the G.P.L. license.
10:42:49Zagormarkun: no, it's perfectly legal. xchat simply chooses to charge for their windows binaries. which is also perfectly legal.
10:43:21B4gderMikachu: correct, the build servers use cvs to get the sources but we need to scp the zip files back to
10:43:40Mikachuright, didn't think that far :)
10:44:21tucozBy having a look at the hackers guide, I understand that windows users would want to pay for it.
10:44:48tucozNot really ./configure, make, make install
10:45:33Mikachui managed to build a windows version of a simple sdl app with mingw32 and cygwin a couple of years ago
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10:49:13safetydanB4gder, you could try something like this but it records the whole desktop
10:50:41tucozWhat should I call mp3 files in the manual? E.g. in the id3-viewer section, that info is also for OGG,FLAC etc
10:51:05Zagortucoz: "audio files" and "file info"?
10:51:17Mikachusafetydan, B4gder: you could start a vncserver with the right dimensions, making the sim fullscreen, and record that
10:51:39tucozZagor, hmm. Yes, I'll try that
10:51:45safetydantucoz, I've been wondering about that too. We should probably repalce usages of id3, with 'metadata'
10:52:00safetydanat least in the code
10:52:06tucozsafetydan, maybe rename the id3-viewer to metadata viewer
10:52:08*B4gder agrees
10:52:40preglowperhaps we too should introduce a click on wheel use
10:52:45preglowto help blind people use the wheel
10:52:52tucozThe piezo?
10:53:04preglowif we can figure it out
10:53:10preglowi believe ipl has code for it
10:53:11Mikachuit works in iPL so it shouldn't be so hard to get the hw interface
10:53:14preglowi'll see about it
10:53:16webguest74metadata is too technical.. "file info" seems better to me?
10:53:35nudelmake it play the mp3s! like how people managed to make the PC speaker play samples (while pausing the entire game)
10:54:06Mikachunudel: there is a linux driver for that too
10:54:21nudelno need for that jukebox thing, you can have an awful quality boom-box from just the ipod itself! :)
10:54:21B4gder"file info" is better when shown to users, yes
10:54:22webguest74There was a Windows 3.11fw driver for that too.
10:54:30B4gderit could be "meta data" internally
10:54:48webguest74oh of course.
10:55:02*safetydan goes on a s/id3/metadata/g crusade on the source...
10:55:11preglowhow realistic is having a wheel free mode for ipods, really?
10:56:10Mikachujust for wps or for the whole system?
10:56:18preglowwhole system
10:56:25preglowsounds a bit awkward, code-wise
10:56:34Mikachuit might work button-wise
10:57:37Zoide7777what would be the purpose?
10:57:52 Join nobelium [0] (
10:57:53webguest74Blind users don't like not getting tactile feedback
10:57:58Zoide7777(seems to me that the wheel is one of the great things that only the ipod has)
10:58:16webguest74And I'm sure there are sighted users who hate the wheel as well
10:58:29Zoide7777webguest74: i agree
10:58:39preglowwebguest74: no, exactly, it's got to be a nuisance for blind people
10:58:46preglowwebguest74: i notice it myself when i can't see my unit
10:58:54preglowwebguest74: i ALWAYS brush the wheel when i want to press a button
10:59:01B4gderthe little time I've tried it, I didn't like the wheel much
10:59:08preglowusually increasing or decreasing the volume by 6 db
10:59:24webguest74Sounds like a job for amiconn, iirc he mentioned disliking the wheel as well
10:59:29nudelcouldn't that be solved by making the wheel require more movement before it kicks in
10:59:31webguest74(and might be getting an ipod)
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10:59:36preglowi think the wheel is neat enough
10:59:39preglowbut not when you can't see
10:59:50Zoide7777any news on grayscale lib? us poor 4g grayscale users are ostracized from the doom, rockboy, & screensaver plugin fun.... ;)
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11:00:17webguest74Does Doom even run on any grayscale units?
11:00:28Zoide7777i think it does on h120
11:00:39austriancoderwhere can i find doom?
11:00:39Zoide7777it certainly does on 4g ipod, but in ipodlinux
11:00:46tucozaustriancoder, on the patch-tracker
11:00:53austriancodertucoz: thanks
11:00:55webguest74Damn slow webclient
11:02:18Zoide7777another really neat feature besides grayscale lib would be recording. i think it's pretty clever how you can record through the headphone jack in podzilla
11:02:35Zoide7777too bad it's such a pain to set up a dual boot, etc. just to use those things
11:03:05Zoide7777they should just dump ipodlinux development and all join the rockbox dev team!
11:03:26Zoide7777imho, of course *grin*
11:03:42preglowrockbox would end up really pretty, at least ;)
11:03:48safetydanboy there's a lot of pointer-sign warnings...
11:04:00B4gderZoide7777: we've been telling them that since the day they started ;-)
11:04:10preglowsafetydan: seen any comments on the new eq code?
11:04:13Zoide7777B4gder: hahaha
11:04:17safetydanpreglow, nope, not a one
11:04:18webguest74B4gder: Really?
11:04:44Zoide7777but really, half-seriously, it's kind of a waste for there to be two projects in parallel when even if they're open source, you can't just port over all the innovation from one to the other
11:04:58webguest74wonder why they were so hellbent on using Linux from the beginning
11:05:16B4gderI've never understood why they want linux on it
11:05:19Zoide7777little by little Rockbox does all that ipodlinux does; now if only all that ipodlinux dev energy just went into rockbox, imagine...
11:05:27tucozBagder, is it ok if I just write something like 'Please correct this information' for the targets not included in the 3.0 release?
11:05:36safetydanpreglow, though I don't think there's been an experimental build for the h300 kiddies to try it yet
11:06:03webguest74I imagined it was something like not knowing that there was an existing project and just using whatever kernel was available
11:06:16webguest74The curse of the custom builds
11:06:38webguest74Did anyone notice there's a H1x0 Optimized build now?
11:06:54Zoide7777B4gder: probably because at times linux has been so "in fashion" as the end-all be-all, the magical os that runs from PDAs to servers....
11:06:56preglowi believe they put linux on it because they want linux on it
11:07:00preglowwith all the possibilities that brings
11:07:04preglowthey've got a different aim than us
11:07:14B4gderwell, the ipodlinux project of course started while we only ran on Archos
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11:07:19Zoide7777then again, maybe they would argue that if the Rockbox devs dropped this and joined them....
11:07:31B4gderno doubt
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11:07:42B4gderbut we have 16(!) targets in our cvs builds
11:07:50Zoide7777that's truly amazing
11:08:05webguest74Well yes, it just seems a strange thing to do.. I can't see the point of running a general purpose os on a dap
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11:08:26B4gderand that's why you're in #rockbox and not #ipodlinux ;-)
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11:08:44Zoide7777I think this must be one of the one/few open source projects to run on so many different platforms, with such an organized development process
11:08:45webguest74That'd be the reason, yes
11:09:11RoC_MMIs the rockbox kernel custom?
11:09:17Zoide7777though of course if you run linux you get a lot of things you can bootstrap off for free
11:09:23tucozIsn't debian also quite multiplatform
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11:10:05Zoide7777maybe now we can run os x for intel on the ipod! hehehe..... i've seen some pretty sorry "screenshots" of just that...
11:10:13webguest74You can't really compare.. since nearly all Linux programs run on a bunch of products
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11:10:52Zoide7777what really surprises me is how limited the audio component of ipodlinux is
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11:11:15webguest74Rockbox may be the one of the smallest project (code-size) to run on so many different platforms
11:11:16Zoide7777i mean they have *all sorts* of things (even a "cursive" on the scroll wheel method of text input!)
11:11:31tucozwebguest74, it was a respond to what Zoide7777 said. If debian runs on a number of platforms, I would say their dev process is quite organized as well.
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11:12:07webguest74tucoz: Mine was a response to Zoide7777 as well, actually.. just saying that it's a strange comparison to make
11:12:18Zoide7777tucoz: that's true... plus it's thousands and thousands of packages
11:12:33Zoide7777tucoz: but then again they don't really do any of the development for the packages themselves, right?
11:12:47Zoide7777tucoz: isn't it mostly putting it all together? (not that it's easy at all)
11:12:48webguest74Not directly, but they make sure it runs on every platform
11:12:58austriancoderIt seems that orignal firmware of x5 supports mpeg4 with 15 pictures pro sec
11:13:17webguest74For example, Debian was _the_ reason xfree86 supported as many platforms as it did/does
11:13:31Zoide7777btw, something i had thought of several times... has anyone considered porting rockbox to PDAs?
11:13:40preglowwell, debian did the porting for it, so small wonder...
11:13:46tucozZoide7777, well they do. I think the Debian community detects bugs, and creates patches that for instance Gnome would benefit from
11:13:52webguest74preglow: exactly
11:13:56Zoide7777you wouldn't need to reverse engineer all sorts of things i suppose, since you could just make it be an app on top of the os
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11:14:09Zoide7777tucoz: i see
11:14:41Zoide7777preglow: who did xorg? or did that just evolve from xfree86 after the porting?
11:15:03webguest74xorg6.7 = xfree86 4.2.0
11:15:16Zoide7777i see
11:15:19webguest74and from there, xorg was developed by lots of people who jumped ship
11:15:41tucozAnd the Ubuntu community works in a similar way. There is actually a quite interesting seminar by Mark Shuttleworth on google video.
11:15:44webguest74That's the ultra-condensed version, of course.
11:15:50tucoz(for those interested)
11:16:51*tucoz is happy that he created a filter for flyspray in his gmail account :)
11:17:25webguest74 if you want to download the video instead of seeing it through flash
11:17:46*tucoz gets dizzy by looking at that link
11:18:05Zoide7777i have mixed feelings about ubuntu.... it gets *a lot* of attention, and yet (to me) doesn't seem to be all that better than other distro's; ime, much more frustrating in fact
11:18:30*webguest74 has no strong feelings about Ubuntu
11:18:37tucozI like it, use it and do not feel the need to use anything other than that
11:20:06Zoide7777wow... he's one of the baldest guys i've seen with long hair like that hehe
11:20:35Zoide7777so, has anyone considered porting Rockbox to PDAs?
11:21:17B4gdernot many actually consider to port Rockbox
11:21:51webguest74You could possibly make SDL work on some PDAs, problem solved!
11:21:52B4gderand those that has hardly considered PDAs
11:23:44Zoide7777i mean, it seems like a PDA target might not be that much different from a DAP target; less complicated in fact if you use the PDA-provided APIs and stuff like that. but then again i suppose you'd still have to reverse engineer stuff to do asm optimizations?
11:24:18webguest74You'd have to hook into an OS, which seems like a considerable task
11:24:49B4gderI don't see a point for Rockbox on PDA
11:24:54webguest74You'd probably start with the sims, but I'm not sure how it progresses from there
11:25:15Zoide7777webguest74: and then again "frankengarnet" must be tough to deal with
11:25:15webguest74you'd loose things like touchscreen etc.
11:26:01Zoide7777i remember there was a very cool program called pPod. it emulated the iPod to the last detail, including using the touch screen as a scroll wheel. of course, they got shut down by apple...
11:26:22Huntermici'd say, keep it only for media/mp3 players, that's when it is a its best
11:26:26B4gderif they got shutdown they did something wrong
11:26:48tucozamiconn, sorry for asking the same questions over and over. But, how do you access the WPS context menu on the ondio?
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11:28:39Zoide7777B4gder: well, they implemented the touch screen idea that years later Apple is still rumored to use in the "real" iPod video
11:29:28B4gderI doubt that gave apple legal rights to act
11:29:31ZagorZoide7777: they did something else wrong if they were shut down
11:30:21Zoide7777well, they copied the interface to the last detail, & were selling the program for profit... *grin*
11:30:28Zoide7777I guess that would do it
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11:30:44B4gdercopying interfaces are allowed
11:31:06B4gderonly software patents could stop that
11:31:18B4gderperhaps Apple has a few there
11:32:14Zoide7777btw, I'm listening to/watching Shuttleworth's talk.. he mentions revision control, etc. does the Rockbox code have branches and such? it seems to just be one trunk where everything gets done and then the Flyspray place where patches may or may not get included
11:32:19safetydanapple has patents on interfaces
11:32:32safetydannot sure how successful they've been at enforcing them
11:32:42B4gderZoide7777: we haven't had any reason to branch yet
11:32:43webguest74Apple has patents on everything a developer thinks of while having lunch
11:32:52Zoide7777safetydan: I thought Microsoft actually snatched it from them or something like that? as in, Apple has to pay Microsoft when they make iPods
11:33:07webguest74Wasn't that Creative?
11:33:09Zagorsafetydan: well, creative has patents on apple's interface too :-)
11:33:18safetydanZoide7777, possibly, I gave up trying to follow the patent malarky too closely
11:33:22webguest74Everyone has patents on everything. It's a trainwreck
11:33:34bam_is it normal that the volume levels are much lower with rockbox than the stock firmware?
11:33:48webguest74bam_: Are you using replaygain?
11:34:10webguest74Well there you go. Replaygain usually lowers volume on the whole
11:34:11safetydanreplaygain will normalize your volume to around 89dB IIRC
11:34:26safetydanso it will generaly sound quieter than un-gained audio
11:34:36Zoide7777it's a bit old, but it did happen:
11:34:38preglowdepends a lot on the track, though
11:34:41safetydanbetter for your ears anyway
11:34:42preglowsome tracks are gained up
11:34:59preglowhad a few ambient tunes that got gained +6
11:35:00webguest74preglow: Not many though, in this day and age.
11:35:02preglowalmost clipped
11:35:20preglowwebguest74: depends what music you listen to
11:35:29safetydanpreglow, speaking of replaygain, are you just going to use the replaygain pre-amp for the equalizer?
11:35:31preglowrock and metal is mastered to pieces these days
11:35:38preglowsafetydan: i don't see why not
11:35:38RoC_MMis it better to have replaygain on?
11:35:52safetydanAs in, move it out of the replaygain menu and turn it in to a general pre-amp for the dsp path?
11:35:55webguest74Did anyone ever succede in getting Replaygain writing to id3tags in Linux?
11:36:15preglowsafetydan: i'm trying to think of a good way to embed the gain in the eq code, but i can't think of any such way
11:36:33Mikachuif i just use replaygain without the eq, it just modifies the hardware volume right, no extra cpu processing?
11:36:41safetydanMikachu, no, software processing
11:36:51safetydanMikachu, extra loop over the audio to do apply_gain()
11:36:52preglowsafetydan: it'd be piece of cake to just move a general gain into the eq band code, but then we'd have to dynamically move the gain around as people switch bands off and on
11:37:03Mikachusafetydan: can't you just set the volume?
11:37:11safetydanMikachu, not enough precision in the hardware volume
11:37:24Mikachui can't hear any difference between +-1
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11:37:52preglowbut ok, what about when we want stuff gained up?=
11:38:02preglowthe hardware wont allow that
11:38:08preglowin some cases
11:38:13Mikachui generally don't have my volume set to +6...
11:38:16preglowpoint being we'd have to create special cases
11:38:24preglowMikachu: i've got a bunch of tracks i want gained up at 0db
11:38:34preglowold rock music and ambient, mainly
11:38:40Mikachuokay, i give up then
11:38:45preglowwe'd be restricting ourselves
11:38:48webguest74Is the extra loop expensive?
11:38:59preglowwebguest74: no, not very, and i plan on optimising it further for each platform
11:39:10Mikachucan't you do it while in another loop?
11:39:19preglowi'll probably have everything in dsp assembler optimised at some point
11:39:24Zagor(FYI: apple claimed trademark infringement in the pPod case)
11:39:27preglowMikachu: that's what i was saying
11:39:42Zagor(and pPod folded immediately)
11:39:43Mikachuoh, i didn't understand your fancyspeak then
11:39:47webguest74Zagor: Makes sense. So B4gder was right
11:39:49preglowMikachu: i can move it to the eq code, but that'd need some additional wizardry and probably have some glitches
11:40:01webguest74They made mistakes.
11:40:14webguest74(ie. leeching on a trademark)
11:40:15preglowwe'll just put it in the replaygain path for now
11:40:17preglowwe can always move it later
11:40:24B4gderwhich also hints that we are right in avoiding using trademarks in Rockbox
11:41:24safetydanpreglow, so we should just have one pre-amp setting? Or one for EQ and one for Replaygain?
11:42:03webguest74If there's one thing companies are always willing to fight, it's trademark infringement
11:42:13Zoide7777Zagor: they actually changed their name to pBop (I'm serious), but they still disappeared in the end:
11:42:22Zagoryes, I saw that
11:42:38webguest74That should've been pBox
11:42:44Zagorwebguest74: that's because they have to
11:43:00webguest74Zagor: Yeah, indeed
11:43:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:43:58amiconntucoz: WPS context menu is Long Mode. No direct way to enter the main menu directly from wps. This is done by short Menu from the context menu
11:44:02webguest74Zoide7777: I like the comments on that article
11:44:19tucozamiconn, thanks. I stopped being lazy and used the sim to find out :)
11:45:27preglowsafetydan: one for both
11:45:51preglowsafetydan: you might want to pregain only replaygain tracks, just like before
11:46:57safetydanpreglow, doesn't that mean two runs of apply_gain() or can the pregain be combined?
11:47:57preglowthe gain factor will be compined
11:48:42preglowcombined too
11:49:17safetydanwell that should be enough for me to start hacking at it
11:50:09safetydanOh, one more thing. Was the moving of stuff from firmware to apps (e.g. id3.c) part of the 3.0 release plan?
11:50:35RoC_MMis a 3.0 release planned?
11:51:19preglowthat part will come when it comes
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11:52:52webguest74Wonderful.. the mp3gain linux program will write replaygain info.... but only in an APE tag! Jesus christ
11:53:17nudelThere should be a law against APE tags on MP3s.
11:53:42RoC_MMlame calculates and records replaygain in all mp3s in linux
11:54:05nudelit can't do album calc though, unless you give it all files at once, i guess
11:54:07RoC_MMbut that can't be done after-the-fact
11:54:09webguest74I'm quite sure there is. It's named webguest74's law against stupidity, and is punishable by a punch to the nose
11:54:37webguest74RoC_MM: Well, that's as good as useless then :-\
11:54:39nudelfoobar2000 writes APE tags on MP3s by default... It's an outrage
11:54:54webguest74It gets better
11:54:54crashdit's a fuckinnnngg outrage!
11:55:01webguest74It writes APE tags and ID3v1!
11:55:10nudelworst of both worlds
11:55:13webguest74No kidding.
11:55:27nudeli'm still so surprised ID3v1 ever existed, it's so obviously shit
11:55:33preglowape beats both id3 standard
11:55:39preglowso if it only dropped id3v1...
11:56:04nudelwhat's APE do that ID3v2 doesn't, apart from break a load of players?
11:56:05webguest74How about "No APE tag may be larger than 8kb"
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11:56:19webguest74That's quite a flaw if you ask me.
11:57:08webguest74Or whatever the magical limit was
11:57:38webguest74Oh, and having to order items by size.. that's just madness
11:57:50webguest74Most of all whent here's already the size-limitation
11:58:27amiconn"No APE tag may be larger than 8kb" is a big plus imho
11:58:48amiconnIt stops people from misusing the tags for silly things
11:59:07amiconnThen, ape wans't meant to be used wih mp3
11:59:08webguest74It's artificial limiting
11:59:23ScoTTie8kb is a lot of data for just info
11:59:35webguest74How are they to know if I have a good reason to embed more than 8kb?
11:59:47B4gderwe _need_ 800K album art tags!
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12:00:19preglowi think 8kb is fine
12:00:25preglowwho the hell wants more than 8kb?
12:00:30webguest74My point is, maybe there are good reasons that the author of the spec hasn't envisioned. Imposing arbitrary restrictions seems arrogant.
12:00:36*B4gder remembers a real case with 800K album art
12:00:36preglowstuffing album art in the _TAG_ is insanity
12:00:45nudelyou might want to list the name of every single audience member at a live gig :)
12:00:53B4gderrockbox didn't play it gapless ;-)
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12:01:13preglowB4gder: woes!
12:01:26preglowbut yeah
12:01:36preglowif the x5 does not support bass and treble controls, should we emulate them with software?
12:01:39webguest74Sure, having huge tags can cause troubles, but to impose it as a rule, just because seems stupid.
12:01:40preglowor just tell people to use the eq
12:01:44nudeli don't see why it's insane, it's all metadata... so long as you can choose which parts of it to load then it's fine (i.e you're not forced to load an 800kb metadata chunk if you just want the titles, and I guess that's why APE orders by size, though with 8kb who cares about size as you're going to load the whole thing at once)
12:01:58preglownudel: _album_ art in the _track_ tag? that's insane
12:02:00B4gderpreglow: let's say eq for now at least
12:02:13preglowB4gder: i've got filters for bass and treble boost ready anyway
12:02:31nudelit's not a track tag, it's just metadata... seems sensible to have *one* metadata format rather than a different one for every purpose. less stuff to code.
12:02:33B4gdernudel: well, the 800K chunk makes parsing a lot harder
12:02:33preglowso it's not that
12:02:49preglowit's more what we should do about features that most of our platforms have, but not all
12:02:51B4gderor at least slower
12:03:00preglowlike i just codec swcodec versions of channel config and stereo width
12:03:01nudelmaybe the metadata should just have a size and file-offset for where to get the album art, rather than the art itself
12:03:21webguest74A tag TOC might be good.
12:03:41webguest74I wonder why id3v2 wasn't made like that
12:04:02webguest74would only take a byte or two more pr frame
12:04:09amiconnpreglow: The nice thing with the MAS pcm codec is that it has the same stereo matrix config as the builtin mpeg audio codec. Just different addresses
12:05:43 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
12:06:24nudelArchos are happy to help Rockbox (or at least allow it to use code they own)? That's very cool of them if so.
12:08:05 Quit qwm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:08:18preglowgo ask for specs on their newer players and lets see if they're as helpful then
12:09:09nudelit's stupid really, i mean i bought an ipod *because* of the rockbox port. companies should welcome alternative software for thei rhardware... although i suppose it gets in the way of their disgusting DRM online-store lock-in illegal monopolistic wolrd destruction plans
12:09:47webguest74not to mention their casual eating of babies
12:10:13ScoTTie'stemcell research'
12:12:42nudelI'm getting a bit annoyed with Borland Janeva (middleware for making C# talk to J2EE servers): You write a middleware solution, whose primary job is marshalling data between languages/machines, where the languages at both ends fully support reflection. When marshalling fails do you: (a) Provide detailed error messages which include the name, type and contents of the item which failed to convert; or, (b) Deserve the computer-pro
12:13:23 Part Zoide7777
12:13:33webguest74cut-off at "computer-pro"
12:13:42nudel(b) Deserve the computer-programmer
12:13:42nudelequivalent of castration to prevent you from spreading more of your
12:13:42nudelsick, evil code into this once-beautiful world?
12:14:28 Join nobelium [0] (
12:15:26webguest74(c) all of the above
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12:24:09preglowamiconn: but yeah, do you think we should try sticking to a common settings subset between platform if at all possible (ie. we can emulate with software) ?
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12:29:52Mikachudpro: i just noticed the pitch screen seems to be accessible from the wps context menu too
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12:36:26Jungti1234yeah, hi all
12:36:35markunhi Jungti1234 :)
12:36:37Febspreglow, as I drove home yesterday, I was thinking, "my car stereo sucks. I should use the parametric eq" to smooth out its response. Then I started thinking how useful it would be to have something like a sine wave sweep function to help do just that.
12:36:51preglowFebs: oh, indeed
12:37:13preglowFebs: wouldn't even be a problem
12:37:26Jungti1234hey phaedrus961
12:37:34preglowFebs: just figure out how to fit it in
12:37:39phaedrus961hey Jungti1234
12:37:55preglowFebs: an accousticsbox plugin, heh
12:38:00markunFebs: would the loudness of the sweep at a frequency take the human hearing into account?
12:38:38Jungti1234phaedurs961: Do you have word to do to me?
12:38:47Febsmarkun, I need to read more about how the test tones on, say, home theater set up disks do it. I thought that preglow might know offhand.
12:38:55preglowFebs: you know, i can see myself selling a plugin like that if i were to work a bit on it
12:39:20preglowfortunately i'm not inclined to do that, of course :>
12:39:34webguest74Then having the first buyer redistribute for free :)
12:39:50FebsI just wanted to toss the idea out there. I found a GPL compatible sine wav generator here:
12:39:58preglowFebs: what would be really cool would be doing sinesweep measurements with rockbox recording the output and analysing it
12:40:04preglowFebs: of course, that would need a calibrated mic
12:40:05markunFebs: see
12:40:43preglowFebs: oh, the sine wave part isn't a problem, that's already done
12:40:49dpromikachu: never mind :) it's there and I already changed it a bit so now you can seek and pause from it
12:41:14amiconnpreglow: Well, if a specific feature isn't supported on a target, we shouldn't go through hoops.
12:41:19 Quit DrMoos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:41:25preglowFebs: the big question is if you want to rely on your own ears to do find out where the peaks are
12:41:36preglowif so, we'd need to do quite a bit of testing
12:41:36FebsMy thought was to sit in my car with the sine wav sweep and an SPL meter (not while driving, of course ;))
12:41:45amiconnSince the TLV320 doesn't have hardware treble/bass, we don't need to emulate it, since we already have software eq
12:42:13amiconnJust point the users to the eq.
12:42:25phaedrus961Jungti1234, I don't understand
12:42:52preglowFebs: it is worth keeping in mind that rockbox can do the measurement itself too, but the mic would like i said need to be calibrated
12:42:59*webguest74 ponders hacking up a apev2-to-id3v2 script that moves replaygain info
12:43:18FebsNow THAT would be cool.
12:43:19webguest74and removes the apev2 tag!
12:43:24nudeleither The Godfather or MP3Tag will do it for you, if you're on windows
12:43:30webguest74I'm not.
12:43:39tucozDo you mind if I add a DRAFT COPY watermark to the manual?
12:43:50tucozso that people understand that it is work in progress
12:43:53amiconnMaybe we could map the treble and bass settings to the highest and lowest eq band.
12:44:08FebsAnyway, if you're inclined to write such a thing, I think it would be quite popular. I thought about taking a stab at it myself, but with my fledgding knowledge of C it would probably take me a week, and that time is better spent on the manual.
12:44:14amiconnOtoh, this might confuse users...
12:44:29nudelI assumed that's what they did when I first tried them
12:44:29preglowFebs: i can write a sine generator plugin pretty fast, i guess
12:44:39preglowamiconn: yeah, lets not do that
12:44:56webguest74Febs: I might.. we'll see..
12:45:05preglowamiconn: only asking since i've now got slightly cheaper-than-eq filters which are probably equivalent to what the codec chips themselves use
12:45:15tucozdo what? write draft copy?
12:46:42preglowtucoz: it should be marked in some way
12:47:17tucozpreglow, yes. I commit that now. I don't want people to believe the manual is final and print it out.
12:47:33preglowFebs: i don't really know a lot about microphones, do you have any idea how bad the amplitude curve of semi-cheapish mics are?
12:47:35 Quit nobelium ()
12:47:45linuxstbtucoz: A "Draft" watermark sounds a good idea to me.
12:48:00tucozlinuxstb, hold on, I'll commit it now.
12:48:23*webguest74 looks for code to read ape tags
12:48:39B4gderwebguest74: there's an APE patch in the tracker
12:49:16tucozI just need to change something first
12:50:41webguest74B4gder: thanks, maybe I'll use that
12:50:48merbananpreglow: can you play and recod at the same time ?
12:50:56preglowmerbanan: at least hubbel says i can
12:52:12merbananpreglow: hehe, if you are reeeally bored you can code a microphone calibration/compensation filter
12:52:28preglowmerbanan: i've actually got most of the code needed from a previous project
12:52:51webguest74Don't you just love reading code with comments in polish?
12:53:02preglowcode for doing the sweeps, code for doing deconvolution
12:53:12Febspreglow, I really don't know, but I would imagine the amplitude curve of semi-cheapish mics is quite bad.
12:53:58preglowFebs: but yeah, a signal generator plugin might be quite fun
12:53:59merbananpreglow: what do you use to get the sound envelope ?
12:54:10preglowmerbanan: envelope for what?
12:54:15tucozFebs, if you work on the manual and find it easier to separate sections into their own files. Please do :)
12:54:18preglowsweep envelope
12:54:19preglow? <-
12:54:26merbananpreglow: yes sweep envelope
12:54:35preglowmerbanan: a simple exponential
12:54:45tucozFebs, just use the \input{file.tex} command in that case.
12:54:52preglowthere's a certain way you need to do it if you're using a logsweep for measurements
12:54:57preglowthere are quite a few articles on the method
12:56:35merbananpreglow: if you need a better envelope reference use a hilbert transformer
12:58:01preglowmerbanan: how can i use a hilbert transformer for that?
12:58:09amiconnpreglow: The UDA1380 should be capable of full-duplex operation, and since playback & recording use different DMA channels it should be doable
12:58:27safetydanpreglow, one comment on the eq so far... claims the low shelf filter is busted but it works fine for me so...
12:58:40preglowworks good for me too
12:59:05preglowif someone claims it's busted, please have them supply settings
12:59:10preglowi can easily verify if they are busted then
12:59:23amiconnI thought about nicking a DMA channel for ATA, but there are only 2
12:59:35 Quit Nibbler ("Think of someone of "average" intelligence. Then think half the world is dumber than that.")
12:59:53preglowamiconn: perhaps we can use ata dma when we're not recording?
13:00:15preglowwhich should be most of the time
13:00:54*amiconn wants to see radio going *through* pcm. Enables peakmeters, eq....
13:01:26preglowshould be highly doable
13:01:39preglowbut wouldn't exactly conserve battery...
13:02:32amiconnBut it'll save us from questions why the eq doesn't work for radio, and perhaps also make it easier to enable recording directly from th eradio screen
13:02:47Huntermiclet the user make the choice to do or don't let radio go to pcm :-)
13:02:50merbananpreglow: the hilbert transformer delays any signal with 90 degrees
13:02:56amiconnBtw, I consider recording from radio screen a 3.0 feature
13:03:09preglowmerbanan: yeah, but's not exactly what i need
13:03:19preglowamiconn: then get to work! :)
13:03:21amiconnWe had that in all earlier versions for archos, so...
13:04:10merbananpreglow: square the original and the transformed signal and add them together and you should get the instantanius envelope
13:05:30preglowmerbanan: ok, but then remains the problem of creating a good hilbert transformer
13:05:41preglowwhich is a rather heavy task for a small dap...
13:08:16merbananpreglow: 30 or 60 (don't remember) coeff FIR filter aproximation exists
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13:12:23preglowmerbanan: yeah, but in that case it's just simpler doing a plain exp
13:12:33austriancoderi want to prepear libtheora for some test about video codec stuff... but i dont get it into build process... wich files must i edit to get it into build process? libtheora is lying in apps/codecs/libtheora
13:12:37preglowmerbanan: and that approximation won't be very good, btw
13:12:51preglowaustriancoder: isn't theora floating point?
13:13:29austriancoderpreglow: theora supports floating point and also integer only mode
13:13:35dpropreglow: I'm afraid yes ... I don't think there's a fp version anywhere ...
13:13:59dpropreglow: make that fp a fixed point :)
13:14:04preglowok, now this is a contradiction
13:14:30dproaustriancoder: ah does it ?
13:15:45*dpro doesn't feel like watching pr0n on a nano display anyway ;)
13:16:10austriancoderdpro: i think so.. found also a switch in configure
13:16:36preglowdpro: lots of theora encoded pr0n around, yea? :P
13:17:05safetydanHas anyone been able to reproduce this ?
13:17:10safetydanit works fine in the sim
13:17:46austriancoderso.. my question is still here.. which files must i edit?
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13:19:00B4gdermodify the makefile in the codecs dir, add a SOURCES for the codec and add a main codec file
13:19:22B4gderthere are a few other codecs you can check and compare with
13:22:05dprosafetydan: I can only try it on a nano, and over here it just works [tm]
13:23:32dprodumb question: what is crossfeed ?
13:24:17preglowsimulates listening with speakers
13:24:28preglowsome left channel audio is fed to the right headphone, etc
13:25:44MoosB4gder: Hi, do you know why Chessbox don't compile for X5 please?
13:25:47 Quit austriancoder (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:25:59B4gderMoos: probably a lack of graphics
13:26:19safetydandpro, okay...
13:26:24safetydannow I just need someone else to check
13:26:41B4gderor keys perhaps
13:27:11MoosB4gder: Ok thanks, I'll check if I can find something
13:27:19linuxstbMoos: You could probably use the iriver H1x0 graphics.
13:27:31B4gderyes, like brickmania does
13:27:35B4gderboring, but it works
13:27:48MoosI changed pics for brickmania
13:28:03Moosnow hopefully in color :)
13:28:09B4gderwooo ;-)
13:28:09linuxstbThe "colour" bitmaps for chessbox are greyscale anyway.
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13:28:31Mooslinuxstb: Then just reuse h1xx one?
13:28:42B4gderyou could make a fancy board with backdrop!
13:28:43webguest74Where is apev2 defined?
13:28:49linuxstbMoos: Exactly. I'll do it now if you want and commit to CVS.
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13:30:53webguest74Ah, found something.
13:31:45tucozwebguest74, there is a patch on the tracker that reads ape-tags
13:32:11webguest74tucoz: I'm looking to do it on my computer though
13:32:22tucozI see
13:32:26linuxstbWhat button should bring up the Chessbox menu on the X5?
13:32:56preglowamiconn: btw, you wouldn't happen to know how to increase the precision in a 64 bit division where either the numerator or the denominator ends up being very small at some point in time?
13:33:01tucozrec perhaps?
13:33:18tucozThat could be used as the mode button on the irivers
13:33:49linuxstbSorry, I'm confused. There isn't a menu in Chessbox....
13:33:56tucozInsert 'maybe' before that ^^
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13:35:29Mooslinuxstb: no problemo
13:36:01amiconnpreglow: What you're up to, and what ranges are you facing?
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13:36:28amiconnMaybe you'll need a custom division routine. Note that I didn't deal with fixed point division routines so far
13:36:32ripnetukhi. has anyone else had stability issues on IH120 recently?
13:36:55linuxstbMoos: Can you test this patch?
13:36:55ripnetukit crashed on me three times this morning (blank LCD on unit, remote still has image, HDD LED on).
13:36:56LinusNno, why?
13:37:03*Paprica is commiting the color support of brickmania for X5
13:37:15LinusNPaprica: wee!
13:37:21Mooslinuxstb: let me few seconds and I will
13:37:23linuxstbMoos: Also, let me know if you think the button mappings should be different.
13:37:33LinusNripnetuk: what did you do?
13:37:52Mooslinuxstb: ok
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13:38:03amiconnLinusN: Any news on the H300 power issue?
13:38:17ripnetukjust playing music (the cranberries!)
13:38:31LinusNamiconn: no
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13:39:02safetydanpreglow, cordic can be used to do fixed point division... :)
13:39:29Mooslinuxstb: can you make me one build please?, I don't reinstall Cygwin yet (formated HD)
13:39:30preglowsafetydan: haha
13:39:33preglowsafetydan: in what format?
13:39:35ripnetukim just trying a new build now (CVS 10am this morning). The other build was about 2 days old.
13:39:55ripnetukalso last weekend, I had serious sound breakup (sounded like it was just dropping bits of the song)
13:40:04safetydanpreglow, whatever the input format I guess
13:40:26safetydanit'd be the same loop as the sin function, but with a different initial vector
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13:42:05ripnetukthis was after a cold boot (as I find rockbox often crashes after ive listened to a audiobook and deleted a chapter)
13:42:32Mooswow 3min33sec for 40 builds O.O
13:42:59safetydanwell actually the loop would be simpler for division
13:43:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:43:07B4gderMoos: it just rocks! ;-)
13:43:09Moosfaster than Cygwin for one build XD
13:43:10ripnetuknew build has just done it as well
13:43:18safetydanpreglow, want me whip up a test function?
13:43:21ripnetukplayed about 1.5mins into song
13:43:36preglowsafetydan: i can't see the need for it
13:44:09preglowsafetydan: unless perhaps for arm which doesn't have a divide, but i'm willing to trust gcc instead of adding DIV(x, y) everywhere
13:45:55ripnetuki reckon (a guess) its to do with the directory cache. I get lots of disk activity on powerup (as expected) and the player is reponsive. Then after a while (even if im not playing a song) the main units screen goes out, and the player is frozen.
13:46:48ripnetukchkdsk reports no errors
13:47:49ripnetukjust trying it no with no dir cache
13:48:40linuxstbMoos: I've committed to CVS
13:49:08MoosThanks !
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13:50:38ripnetukit seems OK with no dir cache
13:50:56Mooslinuxstb: I'll let you know about the button mapping
13:51:17ZagorJungti1234: is that good or bad?
13:51:43Jungti1234very good
13:52:04 Quit qwm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:52:52ZagorJungti1234: excellent
13:54:17preglowcan anyone imagine us ever needing more than 24dB boost in any case?
13:54:53Slasheriripnetuk: probably you have very long filenames in some directory and rockbox crashes
13:55:22Zagorpreglow: 24kB ought to be enough for everyone ;-)
13:55:24ripnetukslasheri - i havent added anything of note.
13:55:35XavierGrSlasheri: Is there a chance to introduce you tagcache before the feature freeze?
13:55:40ripnetukalthough i couldnt swear to it
13:55:54ripnetukas i have a automatic podcast and radio loader
13:56:43amiconnXavierGr: Check the release todo, tagcache is a wanted 3.0 feature
13:57:02amiconnZagor: 24 kB ??
13:57:24Zagorbuh, dB. joke failed miserably...
13:57:24*amiconn imagines a kilo-Bel in relation to deci-Bel
13:57:33preglowZagor: hahaha
13:57:54preglowSlasheri: is there a reason that hasn't been fixed yet? it sounds like an incredibly trivial bug
13:58:24amiconnDircache has more bugs than just that
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13:58:36amiconnLike, sometimes not listing newly created files
13:59:02preglow24kB would probably be enough to explode far off planets and eradicate asteroid belts
13:59:43ripnetuki have my suspisions about the dircache causing my other crashes... i think if rockbox were really as unstable as it seems to me it would have got noticed / fixed... do others use the dircache?
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14:00:19Zagorripnetuk: no :-)
14:00:45Zagorbut we'd sure like it working in time for 3.0
14:01:03Slasheripreglow: nobody has yet located the problem..
14:01:19ZagorSlasheri: how is your "time budget" until release?
14:01:30lostlogicpreglow or Slasheri: any interest in testing a 'convert to less signedness' patch to playback.c before I commit it, or do you think I should just do it?
14:01:33SlasheriXavierGr: yes
14:02:21safetydanI use dircache and haven't noticed any problems. But I don't have that many long filenames or deep directory hierachys
14:02:48preglowripnetuk: i use it all the time
14:03:05preglowlostlogic: i can test it
14:03:32preglowripnetuk: to the extent that i can no longer imagine rockbox without it, and i also have no problems
14:03:46lostlogicpreglow: I'm also interested if I break any 64bit sims
14:04:43amiconnlostlogic: Why less signedness? I thought the samples are signed?
14:04:47ripnetukthe only other strange thing I do is delete a lot of files after ive listened to them
14:04:51ripnetukwhich im guess is not typical
14:05:11ripnetuki have got some quite long filenames tho
14:05:55lostlogicamiconn: removing signedness relating to counting bytes as numbers of bytes are non-negative and it makes the math more tightly constrained
14:06:32preglowlostlogic: i'll test soon, just finish some filter work
14:07:09amiconnWell, sometimes using signed values makes it easier to deal with differences
14:07:26amiconnThat's why e.g. current_tick is signed
14:07:43ripnetukwhat is the limit on filename length on dircache?
14:07:45Zagordoes a backlight setting called "Filter first keypress when dark" make any sense? i.e. will people understand what it means?
14:07:57ripnetukand is the limit applied to the entire path, or just the filename?
14:07:57preglowZagor: doubt it
14:08:07Zagori stuggle to find a good name/string for it
14:08:11Zagorstruggle, even
14:08:20XavierGrexcuse me: I tried to patch something and I get hunk fails. I said ok it is an old patch. To my surprise opening the .rej files I can see that the failed hunks are related to rockbox header thingy. Is that intended?
14:08:30Zagor"Ignore light-up keypress"
14:08:31preglowZagor: that'll be fun to translate, for sure
14:08:46*amiconn imagines the german string
14:08:52preglowi can see the norwegian translation being long as a bad year
14:09:00lostlogicamiconn: yeah, I found when working with pcmbuf.c that converting to unsigned for byte counters helps to ferret out possible bug places where a non-negative value is allowed to become negative. Technically, I suppose I could simply convert to unsigned, read through all the places where it changes the match and adjust them, and then make the variables signed again, but that seems silly as well.
14:09:01safetydanripnetuk, I think it'd be MAX_PATH which is the maximum length of the entire path include filename
14:09:06Bg3rZagor what are you doing atm ?
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14:09:33ZagorBg3r: i'm about to commit Nico's backlight filter patch. but I'm not completely satisfied with the setting name.
14:09:37lostlogicXavierGr: the $Id: $ Header? If so just ignore them
14:09:55 Quit ripnetuk ("Leaving")
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14:10:05Bg3rZagor ah......
14:10:07XavierGrbut I remember this wasn't the case when last time I patched.
14:10:23Bg3ras a multitarget setting ?
14:10:28preglowamiconn: does fixing all the inconsistent cap placement in english.lang number among the changes in your language cleanup?
14:10:36ZagorBg3r: yes, for all devices with backlight
14:10:41Bg3rZagor uf :(
14:10:56Bg3ri was working on this too
14:11:13Bg3rbut i suppose you're ready, so... :)
14:11:14amiconnZagor: First keypress enables backlight only ?
14:11:19ZagorBg3r: his patch, or separate work?
14:11:23Zagoramiconn: yes, optionally
14:11:31amiconnI mean as a string...
14:11:37Zagorhaha, ok :-)
14:11:42Zagornot bad
14:12:07Bg3rZagor i just looked at his work
14:15:15preglowthe beeping option really doesn't work too well
14:15:22preglowit suffers from the same bugs as the voice ui
14:15:40preglowif too much is happening, it just craps out
14:17:14lostlogicpreglow: yes, they both use the 'mix' feature of the pcm buffer
14:17:22preglowthen that needs fixing
14:17:24preglowquite badly
14:17:32lostlogicpreglow: *scowl* I'm fully aware ;)
14:17:45 Quit ashridah ("Leaving")
14:17:50preglowbut ok, i'm taking your patch for a spin now
14:18:00lostlogiccool, thanks
14:18:08preglowlostlogic: any particular problems you foresee?
14:18:29lostlogiclet me know if it further impacts voice, and test playback on as many codecs as possible
14:18:59 Quit Moos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:19:03lostlogicparticularly if any codec was passing a negative value for how many bytes it wanted in a buffer request it might not work so well any more :-P
14:19:14lostlogicflac.c was checking for a signed result so I had to correct that.
14:19:32c0uttaZagor: Backlight Wakeup?
14:19:55Zagorc0utta: shorter, but not much less cryptic :-)
14:19:58lostlogicpreglow: there is a big fixme in flac that ... should probably be fixed where it requests a buffer of size X and assumes it gets that much rather than checking that it did
14:20:10Zagorat least I associate "wakeup" with boot-up
14:20:26lostlogicpreglow: the other place I would have expected breakage with these changes are in filebuf wrap situations, but I've had it playing overnight without trouble so I think I'm clear on that
14:25:00Bg3rZagor what about a Backlight submenu
14:25:06Bg3rand there "Eat first keypress"
14:25:08preglowany archos/swcodec owners who have verified the new swcodec stereo width option against the archos one?
14:25:16 Join RoC_MM [0] (
14:25:38 Nick DrMoos is now known as Moos (
14:25:58ripnetukMAX_PATH == 260 aparently... /me checks max length on the rockbox
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14:26:44B4gderripnetuk: the problem is with unicode, as then we easily overflow that size
14:26:47ZagorBg3r: I don't feel the LCD menu needs splitting, really
14:27:08preglowZagor: that patch really doesn't need commiting for ipod, though, i've coded the button driver so that a touch of the clickwheel puts the backlight on
14:27:14preglowZagor: s/commiting/enabling/
14:27:40safetydanis helvR12 supposed to be fixed width?
14:27:41Zagorpreglow: well I'm not going to put a special ipod exception in the code :-)
14:28:26preglowthink about the excess kilobytes!
14:28:35Zagorpreglow: don't you think this general solution is better than the special ipod solution?
14:29:01ripnetukmax length = 237
14:29:07preglowZagor: not really, no
14:29:07preglowZagor: this way i can do both
14:29:12ripnetukso im not breaking MAX_PATH
14:29:18preglowZagor: it feels nice just touching the ipod and having it light up
14:29:41B4gderripnetuk: but is some of the longer file names using non-ASCII letters?
14:29:47Zagorpreglow: does touching it ever send a button event?
14:29:48preglowZagor: nope
14:30:00ripnetukb4dger - i dont think so. All in UK english
14:30:35RoC_MMwhere is the tag database stored?
14:30:46ripnetuki might try bumping MAX_PATH to 500 and try again
14:30:49preglowZagor: works quite well, you're not touching it unless you protest to having the backlight greet you, and it's too insensitive to trigger on fabrics so it wont go off in your pocket
14:30:58Zagorpreglow: shouldn't it, actually? I bet some plugin authors would like to have such events.
14:31:06preglowZagor: perhaps
14:31:21ripnetukis there a max number of files in the cache? i have over 7000 files on there
14:31:27preglowlostlogic: seems to work fine on my ipod
14:31:32preglowlostlogic: tested pretty much all codecs there are
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14:31:52lostlogicpreglow: great! *commits* I'm sure someone will find bugs, but they shouldn't be majorly bad any more.
14:31:52preglowi can give it a spin on my h120 as well, but there should be no surprises
14:32:18safetydanripnetuk, I don't think there's a limit
14:32:43ripnetukim gonna run for a week or so without dircache and see if rockbox returns to its former uber-stable glory
14:32:44lostlogichmm, if I change function signatures in teh codec API, but don't move any around, and nothing should change in runtime, to bump the API or not?
14:32:59RoC_MMwhere is the tag database stored?
14:33:21B4gderRoC_MM: you tried the docs?
14:33:53preglowlostlogic: as long as the prototype is the same
14:34:01markunsafetydan: no, it's not fixed width, why?
14:34:08preglowlostlogic: but if not, you should bump
14:34:25safetydanmarkun, because Rockbox thinks it is
14:34:28RoC_MMB4gder, I looked...I'm continuing to search....wherever it is, it's not got "db" in it's name.
14:34:31safetydanAnyone know why the viewer plugin uses 'o' as the character decide how wide a font glyph is? Shouldn't it be using 'M' since that tends to be the widest glyph
14:34:39markunsafetydan: why do you think that?
14:34:57markunsafetydan: ignore the current viewer
14:35:04B4gderRoC_MM: TagDatabase
14:35:18safetydanmarkun, viewer plugin thinks the helvR12 is fixed width because the width structure is null in the font struct for it
14:35:18markunThere is a better version in the patch tracker, but needs some work
14:35:37lostlogicso what is the cvs server doing when it is locked for long periods lately?
14:35:45preglowwhy the hell doesn't my ipod reboot on usb anymore
14:36:32lostlogicpreglow: I've been tryign to figure out same −− it has to do with plugging USB while in WPS but I don't know why
14:36:41safetydanmarkun, yeah just found that
14:36:53preglowlostlogic: so it's your patch that's doing it?
14:37:01lostlogicpreglow: no, was happening before my patch
14:37:07preglownever notied
14:37:13lostlogicat least I'm 99% sure it was *tests*
14:37:45safetydanmarkun, ah okay, that patch will fix the helvR12 issue quite neatly
14:38:35lostlogicZagor: B4gder: seriously, what's up with the CVS server being locked?
14:38:42B4gderno idea
14:38:43preglowlostlogic: but yeah, tried all codecs, seems to work fine, voice ui behaves like shit, but that it's always done
14:38:59Zagorme neither. I haven't noticed it. possibly bandwidth starvation?
14:39:06safetydanphaedrus961, what were the remaining issues with your viewer patch?
14:39:23lostlogicdamn, I was really expecting that one of you would say "I have this script that does nasty things nto it for 1/4 of every hour"
14:39:24 Part LinusN
14:40:05Mikachumaybe someone is committing something
14:40:38B4gderlostlogic: let's wait a little while more before we roll up our sleeves
14:40:53phaedrus961safetydan, it doesn't work quite right with reflow and join lines, maybe some other things too
14:41:01lostlogicB4gder: with regard to?
14:41:27Jungti1234hey phaedrus961
14:41:27B4gderthe cvs server lock
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14:41:27 Quit qwm_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:41:34markunsafetydan: and codepage conversion I guess
14:41:47lostlogicit always unlocks after a while, but when I've noticed it it's a few minutes which seems unreasonably long
14:42:01B4gderI agree
14:42:36lostlogicpreglow: not my patch.
14:42:43phaedrus961markun, codepage conversion should work fine, but there's no way to switch codepages yet
14:44:18safetydanphaedrus961, got a newer version or is the latest one in the tracker?
14:44:18lostlogicpreglow: it's so strange −− obviously USB mode triggers, because the big USB shows up on the screen... but it just sits there looking foolish instead of rebooting :-\
14:44:23preglowlostlogic: quite
14:44:40preglowman, you gotta love net radio
14:45:03preglowgreat way to be introduced to new genres
14:45:11*preglow is listening to country :>
14:45:58Mikachuwhat country's country?
14:46:32phaedrus961safetydan, latest one is in the tracker
14:46:32preglowamerica, of course
14:46:32XavierGrredneck! ;0
14:46:32preglowonly other country's country i know of is norwegian, and that's more or less american country
14:46:43preglowwith norwegian lyrics
14:47:01Mikachuonly norwegian music i have is ěystein Sunde :)
14:47:39lostlogicI like some american country... not the whiney shit though.
14:47:40preglowi like almost all music, it seems
14:48:11preglowtoday i've been listening a couple of hours to reggae/dub, an hour of drumnbass, now country
14:48:11lostlogicpreglow: do you like british Drum -n- Bass? or American R&B/HipHop?
14:48:20lostlogicyou had to say it... those are the two genres that I really have no liking for
14:48:31XavierGrwhat's R&B stands for?
14:48:33preglowi like drumnbass, yeah, and some hip hop
14:48:44Mikachuhow do you say dansband in english?
14:48:44preglowr&b i don't like too much
14:48:44lostlogicRythm and blues
14:48:44preglowMikachu: i don't think it exists
14:48:44preglowMikachu: and lucky for them
14:49:15*safetydan wonders if anyone would want the text viewer to work on the remote...
14:49:15Mikachuheh, any case i don't like that and opera, anything else is mostly fine
14:49:15 Join DrMoos [0] (
14:49:15XavierGrrythm and blues? wow. I don't get the relation
14:49:15preglowopera works for me
14:49:19MikachuXavierGr: i guess that's why the combination has its own name
14:49:48preglowlostlogic: you like everything but dnb and rnb/hiphop? :>
14:49:48Zagorlostlogic: highscore! :-)
14:50:10preglowZagor: pfaw, mine broke that puny score to smithereens
14:50:23lostlogicoh, c'mon, that's nothing
14:50:23preglowwasn't it 24000 or something?
14:50:23lostlogicjust warnings!
14:50:24Zagoryeah, but it's the top score today
14:51:32Jungti1234Hangul(Korean) input system that phaedrus961 makes is perfect... :)
14:51:32lostlogicgoram stpuid simulators
14:51:32XavierGr24000! Who did that?
14:51:43preglowMikachu: i've actually heard a couple of danseband tunes i liked lately
14:52:08preglowMikachu: it was really, really hard to admit
14:52:08Mikachunow that i think, there is one that i like
14:52:08preglowMikachu: my father was a danseband junkie, i had a hard time growing up...
14:52:41amiconnpreglow: I've compared swcodec stereo width with archos. Sounds exactly like it should.
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14:52:41Mikachuhaha, i don't envy you
14:52:41preglowamiconn: excellent
14:52:41preglowvikingarna, ole ivars, sten & stanley, ahhh.....
14:52:41preglowhow i wish they would blow up
14:53:48Mikachuhaha, the names are always so stupid
14:53:48preglowthe covers too
14:53:48preglowthe entire band doing some fucked up pose in suits
14:53:48lostlogicnot only is it sims, but it depends what build machine it's done on, it looks like
14:53:48preglowlostlogic: argh
14:53:48preglowamiconn: i bet you just did some sim builds now
14:54:20lostlogicotherwise, why would nano have 17 warnings and not video
14:54:20Zagorhmm, different compiler versions?
14:54:20Mikachuis the incompatible pointer type thing new in 4.x?
14:54:20lostlogicamiconn's server is the one that didn't give warnings
14:54:20B4gdernah, these are plain local/bygg builds
14:54:20preglowZagor: amiconn compiles for a 64 bit target
14:55:07B4gderand www too
14:55:07B4gderall debian
14:55:07Mikachuhow often does the frontpage cvs log update?
14:55:07lostlogicso, the 'normal' ones warn, but amiconn's doesn
14:55:07DBUGEnqueued KICK B4gder
14:55:07B4gderMikachu: after each cvs build round
14:55:07Zagorperhaps we should run "gcc −−version" first in the build scripts, to easier see any discrepancies
14:55:43preglowi'd really like it if all sim builds built for the same arch
14:55:43preglowwe don't need the confusion multiple sim targets bring
14:55:43B4gderZagor: it shows up about 25 lines down
14:55:43Zagorah, lookie
14:56:57amiconn4.0.3 here
14:56:57preglowZagor: reds!
14:57:30Zagorah, forgot about the boot loaders
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14:59:39lostlogicgah, for half of these warnings, the problem was a cast from unsigned to signed in order to agree with the old foolish codec api
15:00:55amiconnlostlogic: Perhaps the amd64 gcc explicitly catches these as pointer signedness warnings as opposed to incompatible pointer types.
15:01:13amiconn...and signedness warnings are disabled in rockbox builds atm
15:01:41lostlogicamiconn: sounds right... fixing them any way as it's better that way
15:01:51amiconnWe lost a build box...
15:02:00 Join qwm_ [0] (
15:02:12amiconn...yours, lostlogic
15:02:29RoC_MMwhat is this "browse firmwares" option in the rockbox menus?
15:02:40 Join PhR3aK [0] (
15:02:49lostlogicstrange... I've just been building on it from here...
15:03:44 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
15:03:59CassandraRoC_MM, not so much use on software codec platforms, since we have no support for using different versions of the bits of Rockbox that aren't in the core binary.
15:04:15lostlogicZagor: as long as we're adding backlight options, how about backlight follows hold? :)
15:04:47CassandraWhy are we adding backlight options?
15:05:03amiconnoptionitis :/
15:05:17RoC_MMthanks Cassandra.
15:05:25lostlogicI'm just glad they didn't add it to ipod, since we have that touchable wheel:)
15:05:26CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
15:05:26*[IDC]Dragon just spotted wav playback
15:05:31Zagorlostlogic: i'd rather see the timeout be very small with hold enabled
15:05:52Zagordisabling it entirely will likely be confusing
15:06:12CassandraCertainly came a lot quicker than we were expecting, didn't it? I wonder if it's a potential 3.0 feature.
15:06:14lostlogicya think? hold becomes a screen and button activation switch
15:07:07 Quit Moos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:07:08preglowCassandra: i'd say no...
15:07:13Zagorlostlogic: yeah, if the switch is physical :-)
15:07:13lostlogicbuild servers are getting a workout
15:07:17safetydanhrmm... maybe it wasn't the best idea to do a commit then
15:07:29preglowCassandra: we have more than enough on our plate for 3.0 already
15:07:34lostlogicZagor: there are non-physical hold switches?
15:07:37Mikachuwill you make a branch or just stop doing fun things for a month?
15:07:53CassandraTrue, but if it's there and it works, it's not really much effort to put in, and it's quite a nice gain for Archos users.
15:07:59[IDC]Dragonamiconn: what was the problem with pcm?
15:08:00Zagorlostlogic: yes, on archos for example (button combo)
15:08:12lostlogicZagor: ah, ok.
15:08:15preglowCassandra: sure, but i'm foreseeing quite a bit of code unless you just want to hack it in
15:08:21PhR3aKi think some people dont use hold, because they want to skip tracks / adjust volume with not taking the mp3 player out of the pocket... or will that be an feature you can turn off?
15:08:50CassandraMikachu, releasing *is* fun. It's a hard slog, but it gives us all a sense of achievement.
15:09:30Cassandrapreglow, well, I think I'll leave that decision to the people who know more about how it works than I do.
15:09:52ZagorPhR3aK: hold is optional, yes :-)
15:10:06Zagor(and so is the "ignore first button" option)
15:10:11preglowamiconn used to talk about wanting to unify the codec systems for hwcodec/swcodec when doing archos wav
15:10:11 Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:10:14c0uttaguys, is there an easy way to use cvs to extract the source from 21-Mar?
15:10:40PhR3aKi mean that the backlight will turn on when hold is not set
15:10:41CassandraIf you want to do stuff with backlight behaviour during hold, I'd say it'd be much better if it was consistent and not an option.
15:10:42preglowMikachu: probably just stop doing new things
15:10:56preglowMikachu: there a slightly better chance of peopling fixing bugs that way, imhop
15:11:03CassandraI don't really see a great need to have a highly configurable backlight on hold option.
15:11:03preglowMikachu: they might of course also just stop developing...
15:11:05PhR3aKbecause that would drain the battery
15:11:28Mikachupreglow: or they might develop and not submit patches for a month
15:11:32 Quit qwm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:11:37preglowMikachu: yup, it's all happened before
15:11:42linuxstbc0utta: cvs -d:etcetc co -D 2006-03-21 rockbox-devel
15:11:44Mikachui'm new in this game
15:11:46safetydanc0utta, something like "cvs update -D 2006-03-21" should work
15:11:49Cassandrapreglow, yeah, I don't thing there's any hope for unified codec architecture in 3.1.
15:12:20[IDC]Dragonamiconn: do you read?
15:12:22 Part kingspwned
15:12:47*Cassandra grins.
15:12:57CassandraI think you mean "are you reading?"
15:13:03amiconn[IDC]Dragon: There were multiple problems, even some very silly ones
15:13:28[IDC]DragonI must have been tired
15:13:28 Join Moos [0] (
15:13:42[IDC]Dragonthe zero block?
15:13:47amiconn(1) Your short_write_D= didn't wok. Using the memory address as i2c device address doesn't work too well...
15:13:55[IDC]Dragonit was commented out at a strange point
15:14:17amiconnThen the zero block transfer was cut at a wrong place (not your fault)
15:14:31[IDC]DragonI thought about that, too
15:14:40amiconn(2) Using SCI1 instead of SCI0 certainly won't work...
15:14:46Zagoris there an emacs mode for helping with nested #ifdefs?
15:15:06amiconn(3) The SCI control wouldn't have worked anyway
15:15:30[IDC]Dragonthe sci stuff was in the last half hour
15:15:33amiconnI've cut the zero block completely from my version
15:15:37c0uttalinuxstb: safetydan: thanks!
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15:17:53amiconnNext things I'll try to add: * DMA playback. * Reading WAV parameters from header
15:18:07amiconnThen we'll have to wait for playback system rework...
15:18:14[IDC]Dragonamiconn: it's an established style that you fix my stuff :-/
15:18:23amiconnAh, and switching the MAS back properly
15:18:32bobTHCcya !
15:18:35 Quit bobTHC ("Smoke Weed Every Dayz !!!!!!!")
15:18:45Mikachudamn french and their weed
15:18:52amiconnMaybe I should add wavplay to cvs after doing this...
15:19:01preglowalways with the smoking!
15:19:03Mikachuwe had a french guy in my corridor, he was totally gone
15:19:25[IDC]Dragona chance to stop it would be nice, too...
15:19:28linuxstblostlogic: I don't understand the reason for your change to flac.c here:
15:20:30MoosMikachu: I'm french, and smoking a bit too :P
15:20:39preglowaren't everyone? :>
15:21:09safetydanIs there an easy way to do compound voice elements with the set_option function, e.g. "three hours, thirty minutes"?
15:21:39safetydanheck, is there a hard way?
15:21:41preglowsafetydan: difficult area you're entering there...
15:21:53preglowsafetydan: the way to do it is language specific
15:22:06safetydantrying to fix the sleeptime setting screen not appearing on the remote
15:22:14safetydanwhich is all because it's a custom screen
15:22:30preglowsafetydan: also for counting, like in norwegian you can say both "three and thirty" and "thirty three"
15:22:36preglowsafetydan: in german its only the first way
15:22:40preglowi bet its the same with times
15:22:42linuxstbamiconn: Nice work on the PCM codec. I think I'll try a FLAC decoding plugin this evening and see what the Archos is capable of.
15:22:49preglowfor some languages at least
15:23:06preglowlinuxstb: you realise this'll be my way into archos coding, yes?
15:23:24linuxstbpreglow: :)
15:23:28linuxstbDo you own an Archos?
15:23:37preglowh120 was my first mp3 player
15:23:43Mikachuin japanese, hundred is different in one hundred and six hundred
15:24:47lostlogiclinuxstb: because that function never returned a negative, so checking negative made no sense there.
15:25:13*preglow might have found a possible way to make the eq slightly faster
15:25:33lostlogiclinuxstb: the correct solution needs to actually use the return value as the number of good bytes in the buffer
15:25:36preglowespecially form arm
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15:26:05safetydan\o/ woo faster
15:26:13Mikachualways better than slower
15:26:15Bg3rwhat about coldfire :)
15:26:32preglowBg3r: not so much, the emac function is very fast
15:26:37preglowbut it'll free a register
15:26:48preglowthe optimisation is really just a way to factor out on of the coefficients
15:26:58*B4gder announces phaedrus961 as a new committer
15:27:08preglowphaedrus961: congrats!
15:27:11safetydanwelcome phaedrus961
15:27:31*safetydan stops looking at viewer patch and dumps it back on phaedrus961 :)
15:30:03*phaedrus961 bows gracefully :)
15:31:18preglowi just realised that eq opt won't be faster at all
15:32:18preglowmight even slow it down ://
15:33:43[IDC]Dragonamiconn: you may tike my Alpine plugin as an example of IRQ highjacking
15:33:49[IDC]Dragon take
15:35:55ZagorB4gder: does the times in build server stats include transfer time?
15:36:07B4gderyes, as the transfers are embedded
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15:36:21amiconnI first thought it would be problematic for rombox, but I found even rombox places the vector table in RAM
15:36:24B4gderwe're gonna work on moving them
15:36:27amiconnSo it should be simple
15:36:38B4gderZagor: t0mas said he'd take a stab at that
15:36:55ZagorI was just curious
15:36:57B4gderto make the transfers get done after the whole build set is complete
15:37:05B4gderit'll make a noticable difference
15:37:45B4gderit is almost 30MB to transfer
15:37:51[IDC]Dragonamiconn: yes, I use the alpine plugin with rombox
15:38:26[IDC]Dragon(vectors are in RAM on purpuse, for those very dirty plugins)
15:38:54amiconnEven with the normal vector table in ROM it wouldn't be difficult
15:39:17amiconnThe plugin could copy the table to RAM and change VBR
15:40:06[IDC]Dragonnow it get even more dirty ;-)
15:40:12[IDC]Dragon gets
15:40:14Jungti1234phaedrus961, congratulation!!
15:40:34lostlogicwtf. metallica crashes my rockbox.
15:40:44Zagorhave you heard France is planning to introduce a law mandating all DRM schemes must be licensable by anyone?
15:41:05amiconn[IDC]Dragon: In fact it would be easier. No need to store the original values, only the original VBR
15:41:29[IDC]Dragondo as you please
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15:41:39[IDC]DragonZagor: sortof, yes
15:41:54 Join Febs [0] (
15:42:13Zagornaturally, the US are not amused...
15:42:32[IDC]Dragonneither is Apple
15:43:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:43:15MoosZagor: those things are still a proposition, the parliament isn't fully convinced
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15:43:34 Quit B4gder ("time to say moo")
15:43:38preglowi think not allowing anyone to license it is ridiculous
15:43:57Bg3rZagor shouldn't we "eat" the keypress release too ?
15:44:01Mooswe are still in the peer to peer debate with all the points of view
15:44:30lostlogichmph, all of my metallica oggs appear to be badly encoded... but xmms plays them.
15:44:39ZagorBg3r: indeed we should
15:45:13 Part mnhnhyouh
15:45:19ZagorMoos: I still like the idea. Lock-in? Sorry, we won't allow that.
15:45:49MoosZagor: for exemple fews weeks ago, we stiil was with 300 000 euros of infringment for peer to peer things, now downed to 38 euros by album −− nut still reall definive
15:46:56Zagorinteresting how france moves in that direction, while most of the rest of europe seems to move the opposite way
15:47:27Mikachumaybe it's all the weed
15:47:58MoosZagor: in some points is still the keys, difficult to make one Europeen Union moving in same way in all things in 1/ century
15:48:28MoosMikachu: hehe, maybe it's the weed then made France one of the first democratia ;)
15:48:34 Quit Kohlrabi ("Fast alle Menschen sind Regenw├╝rmer")
15:48:52Moosand one core dev of EU :P
15:49:15ZagorMoos: go go go, I say. we badly need some balance to all the USian lobbying going on in EU right now.
15:49:33MoosI'm all with this too :)
15:50:02ZagorI'm ashamed to say Sweden currently heads the pack striving for a more orwellian society :-(
15:50:21 Quit phaedrus961 ("Leaving")
15:50:29Moosbut the past EU Constitution was in the US way, that why we don't have voted for
15:50:59 Join phaedrus961 [0] (
15:51:53MoosZagor: Sweeden is on reference in term of socials things those last years, France tend to stole ideas here and here
15:52:03 Quit Spida (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:52:12Moosbut a bit too liberal at my waste :p
15:53:26 Quit TCK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:53:48Moosunemployment is almost 10% here those months :-(
15:54:01MoosFrance need to change and some ways
15:54:09MoosEU in this way too
15:55:47*Moos would have to go test Brickmania for X5 instead of spoke for nothing :-)
15:55:59FebsIs crossfade available on all platforms?
15:56:16preglowall swcodec platforms
16:00:53*Moos is remenbering the time when Slasheri spoke about one trigger volume option for crossfade
16:03:50*Febs is writing the crossfade functions into the manual, so he is remembering the same thing!
16:04:08Mooshehe :-)
16:04:30Moosimho the only thing missing to the great crossfade
16:04:42FebsEspecially because I can never remember what the fade in/out delay settings do. I know that Slasheri has explained it to me at least twice.
16:05:10 Part paugh ("Leaving")
16:06:49preglowFebs: those settings need to be simplified, imho
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16:07:17 Quit Febs ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
16:07:30 Nick Febs_hates_webIR is now known as Febs (
16:07:44 Quit Matze (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
16:08:31preglowFebs: there are irc clients around...
16:10:18MoosFebs: since all tunes desn't finish at the same volume level, the current timing values from seetings doesn't do the same for all songs, trigerred volume could be *great*
16:11:12Febspreglow, I know, but the web client is the only one that works with my office's firewall/web filter. I use MIRC when not connected to my work network.
16:11:31preglowFebs: ah, right
16:15:57safetydanhrm... maybe we need some sort of "talkf()" function...
16:16:48amiconnWe might need something like output_dyn_value, just for times instead of decimal units
16:18:26amiconnIt would take a time as plain seconds, and output it as (h):(mm):(ss), either to display or to voice
16:18:51amiconnCould even take milliseconds
16:20:26safetydanamiconn, that sounds doable
16:22:19safetydanlooks like I need to get voice going to test something like that
16:23:01*amiconn really hopes to finish .lang rework this we
16:23:26amiconnThen we could go on with langv2, and I could have a look at output_time
16:23:48amiconnMaking all screens work on the remote is a 3.0 goal, so it's needed soon
16:24:10PhR3aKsomething new about sound on the x5?
16:24:22safetydanPhR3aK, nope
16:24:29PhR3aKk, thx
16:24:50PhR3aKbut it is been worked on?
16:25:11 Quit nudel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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16:25:51safetydanPhR3aK, probably
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16:26:52PhR3aKis this actually the only big incompability? or are there any other problems?
16:27:35Jungti1234What does support codec in Rockbox?
16:27:54Jungti1234It means everything that is on these page?
16:28:09safetydanPhR3aK, as far as I know it's mostly just missing a sound driver but don't hold me to that
16:28:54safetydanJungti1234, that's probably all of them yes
16:29:16Jungti1234Current status?
16:29:27Jungti1234ah.. thanks :)
16:29:29PhR3aKanyway... linus did a great job... lets hope that the sound driver works soon :)
16:34:26 Part XavierGr
16:34:29Huntermicyeah, and after that they may make it work for the M5
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16:35:42PhR3aKhm... is there no wma support in rockbox?
16:36:26Febstucoz, if you read the log, I just uploaded a patch with more additions and revisions to chapter 4 of the manual.
16:36:42FebsPhR3aK. No.
16:37:19PhR3aKok... then i will have to reencode all my wma's :(
16:37:37FebsRead this first (including the linked thread):
16:37:41safetydanPhR3aK, if you're patient WMA support might happen. Someone is working on it but no timeframe is given
16:38:53 Join Matze [0] (
16:39:16PhR3aKi just saw that this would not be such a big problem, i have only like 3-4 wma tracks ^^
16:41:03PhR3aKi thougt i've owned more... ok so rockbox can come ;)
16:42:55*[IDC]Dragon got his Squeezebox today
16:45:11Zagor[IDC]Dragon: congratulations!
16:45:12preglowwhat's that...
16:46:05*amiconn should re-test archos recording after the mas_writereg() fix
16:46:33amiconnThe mas_writereg() bug caused the MAS recording 'blackmagic' to not be applied correctly
16:47:21 Join MadMan1234 [0] (
16:47:39MadMan1234iriver ihp 120 anyway to turn scrolling off ?
16:47:54 Join austriancoder [0] (n=austrian@
16:48:22 Quit [IDC]Dragon ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
16:48:38safetydanMadMan1234, you can tweak the scroll values to approximate something like the iRiver firmware "jump" scrolling
16:48:57preglowlinuxstb: ipl does have piezo for 4g and up, yeah?
16:49:28Mikachui guess you know it works on nano
16:49:39Mikachuokay, it works on nano
16:49:42preglowi don't have an ipl install in and i can't be bothered
16:49:50preglowright, it's probably in podzilla source, then
16:49:51*amiconn *hopes* that the price of at least one of the iPod minis on eBay due tonight won't skyrocket
16:50:25lostlogicamiconn: ooh! ipod mini g2 I spect? I've got a buddy who's chomping at the bit for mini 2g support in rockbox.
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16:52:18amiconnDunno whether they're v2 or not
16:52:35amiconnMost people don't even know that there are several hardware versions
16:52:55amiconnI mainly want a relatively scratch resistant greyscale iPod
16:53:02preglowscratch resistant ipod?
16:53:10amiconnThe minis are scratch resistant due to their aluminium case
16:53:10lostlogicanything's better than ipv then.
16:53:30*amiconn wants to get the grayscale lib going
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16:54:12amiconnThe only bearable mini colour is silver
16:55:21Zagorpink! pink! :-)
16:55:31preglowi'd bloody get a pink one just for kicks
16:55:44Zagoryou can always spray-paint it :-)
16:56:14preglowit seems you need to constantly toggle a bit to make the piezo sound
16:57:08linuxstbYes - I had the piezo working in an early version of my bootloader
16:57:18Mikachuit's either voltage on or off?
16:57:27preglowlinuxstb: what the hell is up with the podzilla piezo code? it sets pitch 0x888*10 times?
16:57:49preglowor does it actually sweep it?
16:58:17 Quit Matze ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
16:58:34preglowi think i'll just play around with it
16:58:46*Zagor changed field "Operating system" to "Target" in flyspray
16:58:51lostlogicpreglow: replacing the pcm beep code or augmenting
16:58:54 Quit PhR3aK (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:00:57lostlogicdpro: I figured out what causes unpause to delay sometimes, I think... but not quite sure how to solve it... when you pause on the boundary between chunks of pcm data it has a longer resume cycle.
17:02:04preglowlostlogic: augmenting
17:02:13preglowit'll be ipod only
17:02:27lostlogicpreglow: yeah, I meant on th eipod −− will the pcmbeeps till sound too, or will both sound?
17:02:35lostlogicermh only the piezo
17:02:35MikachuZagor: while you're here, i noticed a bug in flyspray yesterday
17:02:44Nico_PZagor: thanks for commiting my patch :)
17:02:45 Quit Jungti1234 ()
17:03:00MikachuZagor: if you select the 'view tasks i watch' thing, and then go to page 2, it forgets you wanted to view only watched tasks
17:03:16preglowlostlogic: god knows, i'm just trying piezo code to see if it'll work
17:03:20ZagorNico_P: you're welcome. but as bger pointed out, we need to filter the release event too. care to tinker a bit with that?
17:03:22preglowlostlogic: i'm not planning to use it myself
17:03:36ZagorMikachu: haha. amnesia.
17:03:44Nico_PZagor: you mean for long presses ?
17:03:52lostlogicpreglow: kinda like the eq "I'll make the backend work, what people do with it is not my problem"?
17:04:09ZagorNico_P: no, all presses produce a "press" and a "release" event
17:04:19Zagorcurrently we only filter the "press" event
17:04:32Nico_Pah ok... i'll look at that
17:04:35Mikachumaybe you need to make sure you filter the release event for the correct key too
17:04:42preglowlostlogic: no, i was planning to make this work properly, and only when scrolling the click wheel, but if someone else wants to make it work with beeps or whatever, then they're welcome to
17:04:50Nico_Pand what about the remote ?
17:04:52Mikachuif someone holds down a key, waits for backlight to turn off, and press another key and releases the first one
17:04:55preglowthis isn't by far such a large job as making an eq ui
17:04:56Papricamm little question what it does? (y & 3)
17:05:03amiconnZagor: As for 'target' in flyspray, there should be some generic targets
17:05:13amiconnLike, all SH1 targets, all iPods etc
17:05:24ZagorMikachu: backlight never goes on while you hold a button down, since it produces "repeat" events
17:05:34Zagoramiconn: good point
17:05:37Mikachuah right
17:06:19ZagorNico_P: ignore the remote for now. one thing at a time :-)
17:06:40amiconnpreglow: What about misusing the wheel as an absolute pointing device for blind use? That'd still make an extra 4 buttons...
17:07:08 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (
17:07:12MadMan1234safetydan: is there anyway to do the vertical scrolling like the oem firmware..the rockbox scrolling is unreadable on the lcd
17:07:31MadMan1234what are the settings for the jump scrolling?
17:07:32preglowamiconn: i can't see how that'd be intuitive for blind people at all
17:07:40MadMan1234on the remote lcd i mean
17:07:48 Quit thegeek_ ("( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )")
17:07:50[IDC]Dragonfirefox crashed, I didn't see my own msg about the squeezebox
17:08:16 Join thegeek [0] (
17:09:28SlasheriZagor: i think i can do the tagcache before the release
17:09:36ZagorSlasheri: excellent!
17:11:33preglowif we want piezo, we'll need a separate thread for it
17:11:39safetydanMadMan1234, try setting the scroll speed to 15, the scroll step size to 160 pixels, and I think you also need the biderctional scroll limit set to 200%
17:11:57MadMan1234ok thanks
17:12:00Mikachupreglow: it only makes a sound when you actually flip the bit right? so you can't accidentally crash and make it sound a lot
17:12:15preglowMikachu: i was mistaken, you flip a bit, and then it just goes
17:12:31Mikachuand you set the frequency somewhere else?
17:13:13preglowwell, you flip several bits, that's the freq :-)
17:13:23safetydanMadMan1234, actually, set scroll speed to 0
17:13:51RoC_MM and what doe these settings do safetydan ?
17:14:21safetydanRoC_MM, control how lines are scrolled on the lcd
17:14:32safetydanit should result in scrolling like the iRiver firmware
17:14:43safetydanturning on paged scrolling will also help with long vertical lists
17:15:10 Quit _FireFly_ ("Leaving")
17:15:15*safetydan rereads MadMan1234's original question...
17:15:28safetydanactually I think MadMan1234 you just need to turn on paged scrolling
17:15:38MadMan1234i tried that
17:15:49MadMan1234doesn't seem to make any difference
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17:16:47safetydanMadMan1234, so it doesn't scroll vertically a page at a time?
17:18:13RoC_MMWhat about this.....on the "boxes" theme that comes with rockbox under iPod 4G greyscale, the last song in any folder if it's a folder more than one screen long is cut the list actually goes one line below the screen, and the highlighter disappears but you can see like 1 or 2 pixels of it.
17:18:21RoC_MMIs this something easily fixable?
17:18:33MadMan1234do i need the latest build or something
17:18:41safetydanMadMan1234, how old is your build?
17:18:57safetydanactually if it has a "Paged scrolling" option then it's recent enough
17:19:04MikachuZagor: did you make the fonts smaller too?
17:19:13Zagorin flyspray?
17:19:33Mikachuoh, wrong browser
17:19:36RoC_MManybody else notice this on the "boxes" theme
17:19:41Zagorgotta go
17:19:41 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
17:19:50safetydanI'm looking at it on my h120 remote and it does get a bit blurry once the scroll acceleration kicks in, but there's not much we can do about that without slowing down the scroll
17:21:03RoC_MMare you talking to me or MadMan1234 safetydan ?
17:21:12safetydanRoC_MM, MadMan1234
17:21:23safetydanblimey the original iRiver firmware takes a long time to boot
17:21:56 Join nudel [0] (
17:22:34safetydanMadMan1234, okay, the only thing the iRiver firmware does different when vertically scrolling is scroll slower than Rockbox (with paged scrolling on)
17:23:02MadMan1234yeah i used the vertical scrolling
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17:25:16preglowok, i can make the piezo output a tone just by setting one register, can anyone think of a nice place to disable it after an interval, or do i need to make a new thread?
17:25:44safetydanMadMan1234, no there's no setting in rockbox to make it do that horizontal/vertical "wipe" that the iRiver firmware does
17:26:31safetydanMadMan1234, play with the scroll settings and you might find something you like
17:26:46Mikachupreglow: maybe the code calling the piezo should be responsible for turning it off? so if the filebrowser wants to click it calls piezo_on(etc) and after a while piezo_off()?
17:26:49MadMan1234if i could just turn the scrolling off that would be good
17:27:26safetydanMadMan1234, as I said, try playing with the scroll settings. Setting scroll start delay really high might do that
17:28:34MadMan1234cool thanks
17:30:23preglowMikachu: well, the button code would pretty much have to do it
17:30:30preglowMikachu: and that might not be called very often
17:30:48preglowhmm, button_read is a tick task
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17:39:05*Paprica is learning to math test
17:39:13Jungti1234ah.. um.....
17:39:27preglowseems i want finer resolution than 10ms...
17:39:31preglowin which case i need timer.c
17:39:38Jungti1234Paprica: I want one kind to you.
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17:40:05odoyletulanybody here
17:40:07Nico_PBg3r: you were working on "backlight on first keypress" too ?
17:40:27odoyletuli need help with a archos jukebox
17:40:39odoyletulto diagnos the problem
17:41:12odoyletulit says hard drive error and it isnt recognized by a computer
17:41:34odoyletulis it the hdd or the case that malfunctioned
17:43:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:43:24 Quit Jungti1234 ()
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17:45:05Nico_PMikachu: you were talking about filtering the release event too... i don't see how it is required
17:45:18Mikachui wasn't
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17:45:23Mikachuor rather, i didn't bring it up
17:45:31Nico_Pno but you gave an example
17:45:38Nico_Pi didn't really understand it
17:45:45Mikachuyou can ignore what i said about it
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17:45:51Nico_Pok :p
17:46:06 Part Therx
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17:50:29Papricasomthing is happen to the rewind on the wps
17:51:01Papricathe device seem to not respond after i click on it
17:51:10odoyletulcan anybody help me out
17:51:41odoyletulPLAYER POWERS ON, BUT READS "HD ERROR" Computer also does not recognize.
17:51:48odoyletulthats what it says
17:52:18odoyletuldo u guys think it is just the hard drive or is it a problem with the case too
17:54:05lostlogicodoyletul: sounds like a classic dead archos hdd, but yelling isn't going to make people more likely to try and help you.
17:54:38Febstucoz, I uploaded some additional revisions to chapter 4 to the patch tracker today.
17:55:20tucozFebs, yes, nice :) I am looking at them now. I seem to have broken the manual as well with the pdfdraftcopy stuff
17:55:36odoyletullostlogic what about the computer doesnt recognize
17:55:40tucozI wonder why, it worked right before I committed that
17:56:27lostlogicodoyletul: still sounds like a classic dead hdd, this is similar to the behavior my archos jb6k had when its hdd was dead.'
17:57:19odoyletuli am looking for a shell for one of these if you want to sell
17:58:16odoyletulor did you replace the HDD
17:58:59odoyletullostlogic where can i get a shell
18:00:03lostlogicdon't know −− left my shell in Stockholm.
18:00:26tucozFebs, If you want, you could always split the main.tex files into several files. That is, to make the files a little more maintainable
18:00:45odoyletuljeez your in london
18:00:55lostlogicI'm in Chicago
18:01:25 Quit Rob2222 ()
18:01:34odoyletuli could go for a shell for one of those players
18:02:06 Join Rob2222 [0] (
18:02:12*t0mas is now playing: DeGraw, Gavin - Chariot
18:02:31*t0mas spots a @ in front of his name...
18:02:35Mode"#RockBox -o t0mas " by t0mas (n=tomas@rockbox/developer/t0mas)
18:03:08odoyletulis the rockboy function on the rockbox firmware
18:03:15odoyletulany good
18:03:50safetydanodoyletul, it works well enough for turn based games
18:03:54preglowoooh, we have more ops, excellent
18:03:56odoyletuli am mainly looking for the more formats
18:04:25 Quit kernelsensei (Connection timed out)
18:04:36odoyletulwill it play pokemon or zelda ok
18:04:48 Quit pabs (Remote closed the connection)
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18:05:10safetydanodoyletul, I've heard people have played those okay
18:05:52safetydanmostly on iRiver H300's though
18:05:53 Quit tianjing (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:06:23odoyletulwhat about the archos jukebox
18:06:31safetydanway too slow
18:06:39 Quit Moos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:06:47odoyletulfor any gamebox games
18:06:56odoyletulnot even tetris
18:07:40RoC_MMwhat is with developers not using or having ops?
18:07:52RoC_MMand there not being any opped ops?
18:08:34lostlogicodoyletul: I don't think ajb even has enough memory to attempt to run rockboy, but I could be wrong
18:08:49lostlogicodoyletul: and we have tetrox if you want to play tetris on rockbox
18:09:35odoyletulok i was just mainly liking the formats that this thing could play
18:09:58 Quit RoC_MM ("Leaving")
18:10:47Nico_PBg3r: still not there ?
18:10:48 Join RoC_MM [0] (
18:12:02odoyletuli have a creative mp3 player but i hate that u need special software to transfer to it
18:12:25Nico_Pi also have a problem with my album art patch i wanted to ask help about...
18:12:36Nico_Pworks fine on sim but crashes on target
18:13:24Nico_Pcould it be related to the fact i use a bidimensionnal char array of dims [6][MAX_PATH] ?
18:13:46t0mas[18:04:14] <preglow> oooh, we have more ops, excellent <−− hm?
18:14:01amiconnlostlogic: The archos recorders *can* run rockboy, memory is sufficient for up to 1MB gameboy roms. But it's way too slow to be of real use
18:14:16amiconnMaybe if someone comes up with an asm Z80 emulation...
18:14:33lostlogichehe :)
18:14:51amiconnThe Ondios could in theory also support rockboy, even a bit faster, if someone finds an intelligent way to compensate the lack of buttons...
18:15:20lostlogicyah, who thought of having so few buttons on a device :-P
18:15:39amiconnIsn't there a similar problem on iPod?
18:16:07 Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
18:16:25odoyletuli wanna get a archos player because my creative jukebox has to use stupid third party software
18:16:30lostlogicyeah, not quite as bad because it really has 7 buttons in default configuration, and if we do some work with absolute wheel positioning we can emulate more
18:16:48lostlogicodoyletul: get an ipoop or an iriver or an iaudiox5
18:17:07amiconnUp to 96 buttons ;-)
18:17:10odoyletulipod is too expensive
18:17:10Nico_Pso noone can help me ?
18:18:17t0masNico_P: you can debug in target with logf...
18:18:33t0masand if it crashes on target, but not on sim... it might be a big/little endian error
18:18:37t0masor memory trouble
18:18:54Nico_Pyes i thought of memory because of my array... is it too big ?
18:19:05t0maswhat is it?
18:19:10odoyletuli am mainly looking for cheap because i have some laptop hard drives
18:19:17Nico_Pbidimensionnal char array of dims [6][MAX_PATH]
18:19:24t0mashow big is MAX_PATH atm?
18:19:30Nico_Pno idea
18:19:38t0mastry with only 1?
18:19:44linuxstbNico_P: Is your latest source on the patch tracker?
18:19:48 Nick tianjing_ is now known as tianjing (
18:19:53Nico_Pno... i can upload it though
18:20:05MikachuNico_P: what does it say when it crashes?
18:20:08Nico_Pand about the dbug build... it didn't compile
18:20:17t0mashm? error?
18:20:24Nico_Pthe device just turns itself off
18:20:39linuxstbNico_P: I don't mind - you can put it anywhere.
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18:21:46webguest47odoyletul: rockbox on archos only supports mp3 (and wav, in the not-too distant future)
18:21:56webguest47mpeg 2 and 3, rather
18:22:03odoyletuli was going to get an ipod but those things a soo junky if the hard drive goes on them then you might as well buy a new one
18:22:52Nico_Pto make a debug build i must select "devel" in configure ?
18:22:58odoyletulTHAT SUCKS
18:23:01t0masand then logf
18:23:05Nico_Pthat's what i did and it didn't compile
18:23:11t0masyou did logf?
18:23:11Nico_Pi'll try again and tell you the error
18:23:37webguest47odoyletul: it's a 6 year old device.. cut it some slack
18:23:43Nico_Pah i might have selected DEBUG and not logf
18:23:54t0masthat might be a problem for a lot of targets ;)
18:23:57 Quit charkins ("Leaving")
18:24:29odoyletuli guess i am going to have to look for a 2.5 hdd enclosure that is an mp3 player
18:24:43tucozgrrr, anyone know what is wrong. A works before I commit it, but gets broken after I commit it
18:24:46linuxstbNico_P: It's possible that it's a stack overflow - you are using a lot of large local variables in your get_album_art() function.
18:25:11safetydantucoz, manual trouble?
18:25:16Nico_Pthat's what i thought... it's the only thing i changed from 3.5
18:25:24Nico_Pi wanted to support more potential paths
18:25:32tucozsafetydan, yes. the pdfdraftcopy.sty file gets broken after I commit it
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18:26:04safetydantucoz, I see. Something like "! Missing = inserted for \ifnum."
18:26:08linuxstbNico_P: You don't need to store all the potential paths though.
18:26:29tucozsafetydan, yes. that is weird.
18:27:18Nico_Pyes i should do it in a more efficient way
18:27:25Nico_Pi'll rework it
18:27:52tucozsafetydan, could you try something? download the pdfdraftcopy.sty file and replace the cvs version with that?
18:27:58Nico_Pjust wanted to make sure that was the prob
18:28:04Nico_Pthanks for the help :)
18:28:09safetydantucoz, sure I'll try that now
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18:28:44safetydantucoz, well I'll be darned. That works. I wonder what's different in CVS
18:29:10odoyletulwell there is one good thing about the archos it rins on regular NIMH batteries
18:29:18tucozsafetydan, maybe there is some cvs tags that get's changed when I commit it
18:29:41safetydantucoz, actually that's probably it
18:29:51tucozsafetydan, do you know how to fix it?
18:30:02lostlogictucoz: might have to commit as binary files to prevent CVS from effing with them
18:30:18safetydantucoz, what lostlogic says is probably the only way
18:30:33tucozlostlogic, it's possible to commit an ascii as a binary?
18:30:41lostlogicmv file file.bak;cvs rm -f file; cvs ci file; mv file.back file; cvs add -kb file; cvs ci file
18:30:42safetydantucoz, yes just add "-kb"
18:30:49lostlogictucoz: yeah, binary just says don't substitute it
18:30:51tucozthanks guys
18:30:55tucozah, good
18:31:05Mikachucan you still cvs diff on it?
18:31:15lostlogickb also says no diffs
18:31:35lostlogicat least I think.
18:32:47safetydan-kb basically tells CVS that it's a binary file and not to mess with it. Since it's binary, diff doesn't really make sense anymore
18:33:07safetydantucoz, your other option is to take out the $Id$ tags from the pdfdraftcopy.sty file
18:33:19tucozsafetydan, ok. Maybe that is easier :)
18:33:31Mikachucan't you just put it in a % comment?
18:33:34safetydanwell, actually the $Date$ keyword is the issue
18:33:46tucozI'll just -kb it then
18:34:11safetydanMikachu, the actual CVS keyword is passed in to a LaTeX function
18:36:39safetydanThe actual problem seems to be caused by CVS keyword expansion now resulting in dates in the format 2006-03-21 instead of 2006/03/21
18:36:45 Quit qwm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:36:46safetydanI've no idea if that's a server side or client side issue
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18:39:43tucozsafetydan, I think it works now
18:40:05tucozand sorry for flooding the frontpage of
18:40:22safetydantucoz, works for me now
18:40:45tucozgood. Thanks for the help
18:40:58safetydanno worries
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18:48:29preglowlinuxstb: do you consider the way retailos uses the piezo to be nice enough?
18:48:51preglowi've almost got that going, i just need to switch the piezo off some other place than the button loop, and i can't think of any ways that lets me switch it off soon enough
18:50:04safetydanwoo...316 bytes smaller...
18:53:16Mikachupreglow: i just tried it, it plays the piezo whenever you press a button, even in games, i'm not sure that's a good idea
18:53:50 Join _FireFly_ [0] (
18:55:27preglowMikachu: no, it should probably be restrained to the list viewer
18:55:37preglowMikachu: it might not correlate with the actual movements very well in games
18:55:53Mikachuit also clicks on actual button presses
18:55:59preglownah, i wont do that
18:56:03Mikachui'm not sure if it actually clicked on the wheel in games
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18:56:22preglowthe problem of how i'm going to be able to switch off the piezo after a fixed small time also remains
18:56:34preglowi don't want to use the hires timer
18:56:46Mikachuletting the list viewer turn it off isn't good?
18:57:11preglowi don't want to block in the list viewer
18:57:27preglowto make it work consitently, i basically have to sit in a loop and do nothing for the time required
18:57:42Mikachuah, didn't realize it was so constrained
18:58:09preglowit isn't, it's just that if i go away in a sleep() or yield(), i have no control over how long it takes to get control back again
18:58:33 Join gunpowda [0] (
18:58:35preglowand it'll sound pretty weird and glitchy if the beep sounds different at each press
18:58:53gunpowdaif I'd like to apply a patch, do I need to download the rockbox source from the date that patch was submitted?
18:58:53 Join obo [0] (
18:59:11gunpowdaor if it's from earlier in the month can I still use it with the latest cvs?
18:59:20amiconnGood news: The SH1->MAS serial seems to be stable enough to leave out the 'WAVE' headers for pcm playback
19:00:15Mikachugunpowda: depends on many many factors
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19:00:52linuxstbpreglow: One of the first things I did was to disable the piezo in RetailOS. So I'm not the best person to ask.
19:01:06nlstucoz: here?
19:01:40tucoznls, yes
19:01:52linuxstbpreglow: Could you just have a tick task function controlling it?
19:02:44nlstucoz: I made a section on the dice pugin but I don't think we need screenshots for that stuff
19:03:08tucoznls, ok. That is probably ok. Did you recieve a mail from Daniel btw?
19:03:11gunpowdaMikachu, eg?
19:03:19 Join imphasing [0] (
19:03:23*nls goes checking
19:03:26 Quit imphasing (Client Quit)
19:03:29tucozon your hotmail
19:04:36gunpowdaI'd like to apply this iPlay patch
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19:05:07gunpowdaah, latest version's from the 16th
19:06:01preglowlinuxstb: worth a shot, i guess
19:06:13preglowlinuxstb: i can't imagine i need anything less than 10ms
19:06:39gunpowdaso would I need to get the source from the 16th?
19:07:13nlsfound it was in the spam
19:07:23tucoznls, :)
19:07:53linuxstbgunpowda: The patch should be able to be applied to the current source. If it doesn't work, then you can either try to fix it yourself, or ask the patch author to update his patch.
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19:11:09tucoznls, I got to go. But, I'll see you later
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19:12:11tucozBagder, wikispam
19:12:28nlsreply sent
19:12:40tucoznls, positive or negative?
19:13:33 Join Matze [0] (
19:13:53nlspositive ofcourse
19:14:36tucoznls, good :) and congrats
19:15:02 Quit odoyletul ()
19:15:14tucozsee you
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19:19:26preglownow i've got it working fine
19:19:32preglowbut it'll tick everywhere, yes
19:19:35preglownot only in list viewer
19:19:46preglowbut c'mon, if apple doesn't care, they know best, right? ;)
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19:20:30gunpowdathe vmware image is the best idea ever
19:21:09dpassen1Why is it that much better than Cygwin?
19:21:42preglowbecause it's the real deal
19:21:46preglownot some pretend-hybrid
19:21:49preglowand it's _lots_ faster
19:21:53gunpowdaalso much easier to set up
19:22:24gunpowdaI've used cygwin in the past - the install process is a mission and sometimes required modules are missing
19:22:38dpassen1Maybe, I'll look into the VMWare. Can't say I've had much problems with Cygwin.
19:22:38gunpowdahence the benefit of having something customized for this particular process
19:22:48gunpowdaumm, project*
19:23:10safetydandpassen1, big change is speed of compile as well
19:23:24bam_anyone use the perl version for creating a tag database successfully?
19:23:33preglowsomeone with a nano interested in trying the clichwheel beeping rockbox?
19:24:49preglowgimme a sec
19:25:02Mikachuno hurry, i'm going to eat in a sec
19:26:28preglowbeware your plugins wont work
19:26:29preglowso don't try them
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19:27:53Mikachui know they won't, my plugin buffer is 26MB :)
19:28:33Mikachuit sounds EXACTLY like my brothers old atari st
19:28:40preglowthen hooray for me
19:29:14amiconnpreglow: beepwheel clicking?
19:29:29preglowamiconn: exactly!
19:29:30*Mikachu sits and scrolls endlessly
19:29:59preglowamiconn: now test_mem says my memset16 is buggy again
19:30:39*amiconn just got owner of a silver iPod mini :)
19:30:45preglowMikachu: how's it sit with you?
19:31:12linuxstbamiconn: Is that a 1st or 2nd gen mini?
19:31:30Mikachuwell, it seems to work as advertised
19:31:35amiconnDon't know
19:32:21linuxstbIn either case, you'll still have a little bit of work to port Rockbox to it.
19:32:27gunpowdathe patch is in the src directory
19:32:34amiconnThis one:
19:32:35gunpowdaIndex: apps/plugin.c , and yet I still have to type in the path myself
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19:33:30gunpowdaI don't think the switches apply because there's no path to strip, right?
19:33:39gunpowdaor should I try from the apps dir?
19:34:16preglowbut is it really imperative that it only works in list mode? :/
19:34:35preglowand where in the menu structure would this option fit?
19:35:05linuxstbamiconn: I'm not sure what generation mini that is. The 2nd gen minis have the hard disk size written on the back, so you will know when you get it.
19:35:33linuxstbI think the work so far on the mini port has been done using a 1st gen mini.
19:35:46preglowdo all list type views in rockbox use list.c, btw?
19:35:51 Quit dpassen1 ()
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19:36:05safetydanpreglow, I think bookmarks uses it's own listview
19:36:17gunpowdahrm. if I patch fails could I just try and patch it manually myself?
19:36:21gunpowdathey're both small, around 1k
19:36:22safetydangah, 'its'
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19:36:36safetydangunpowda, if you know what you're doing, sure :)
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19:39:06gunpowdaok - I understand +++ and −−-, but what about @@?
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19:41:08safetydangunpowda, tells you where in the file the changes are made
19:42:12gunpowdawait, I'm not actually sure that I understand +++ and −−-
19:42:25safetydanI can't remember the exact interpretation of the numbers, but you should be able to google something
19:42:47gunpowda−−- apps/plugin.c2 Mar 2006 01:08:38 -00001.153
19:42:47gunpowda+++ apps/plugin.c4 Mar 2006 20:42:58 -0000
19:43:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:43:51safetydan- is the old, + is the new
19:44:24gunpowdasure, but wouldn't the 2 March tie it to that date specifically?
19:44:51safetydangunpowda, no, it's just the timestamp of the files
19:48:46gunpowdaok. I don't think the numbers following @@ are lines
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19:52:46gunpowdasafetydan, does 'playlist_create' make sense?
19:52:52gunpowdano semicolon or comma needed?
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19:55:15amiconnGah, this playback stuff is good for headaches :/
19:55:20safetydangunpowda, err... it really depends on the context
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19:56:57gunpowdashould I be worried if I get a bunch of warnings about file x having a modification date in the future?
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19:57:18safetydangunpowda, no, it just means the clock is out of sync in your vmware image
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20:00:35gunpowdadoes a rockbox make take ages? it's shown this backlight message about 20 times
20:00:57safetydana full build should take less than five minutes on a reasonable pc
20:03:31linuxstbI've got a FLAC test decoder running on the archos, and it's doing about 2 frames per second (1 frame is 4608 samples).
20:04:02safetydanSo only a little optimisation to go then? :)
20:04:39preglowis that all c, then?
20:05:04linuxstbYes. And a very bad test plugin. I need to do fewer disk accesses.
20:05:23linuxstbI'm cleaning it up now, and will then do some proper timings.
20:05:35 Quit dpassen1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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20:10:18gunpowdaright, fixing the time has made a big difference
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20:12:15gunpowdaoops. I pasted in plugin.c from the site on windows and now I get a warning about there being no newline at the end
20:12:56amiconnlinuxstb: Is that 4608 stereo samples (pairs) or 4608 individual samples?
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20:17:01preglowstereo, i guess
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20:17:30preglowamiconn: and you have no spare iram to use, i take it?
20:17:47amiconn4KB of iram in total
20:18:05amiconnThe core uses almost all of that
20:20:03Nico_PBg3r ?
20:20:44amiconnpreglow: In the lpc decode routine, is the fact that the lpc coefficients are in the reverse order as the sample history fixed, or could the lpc coefficient order be changed to go in the same direction?
20:21:59gunpowdahas anyone used iPlay?
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20:27:14gunpowdaI'm just wondering how all of you devs manage to test out so many patches
20:27:21gunpowdaunless they're reversible
20:27:30safetydangunpowda, patch -R <patch>
20:27:41safetydanor multiple checked-out trees as well
20:27:46gunpowdapatch, compile, unpatch, compile...
20:27:52Mikachugunpowda: it doesn't take them 3 days to apply a patch
20:27:59gunpowdamust be quite repetitive :]
20:28:12gunpowdaMikachu, it hasn't taken me three days to apply this patch
20:28:22RoC_MMI would assume
20:28:39gunpowdamore like 15 mins
20:28:56gunpowdathis is a patch. I changed the bootloader (sans patch) yesterday, that was another story.
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20:30:43preglowamiconn: of course it can be changed, but that'll mean additional overhead
20:30:49preglowamiconn: what, can't you go backwards in sh asm?=
20:31:10preglowit's a teeeeny bit too risc for me :P
20:31:21amiconnThe only SH1 mac instruction is MAC.W @Rm+,@Rn+
20:31:38preglowyou can't block fetch with sh asm either, no?
20:31:45 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:32:13amiconnreading one word from each @Rm and @Rn, multiplying that to a 32 bit result and adding it to the 42 bit accumulator
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20:32:26preglownice instruction, btw
20:32:30preglowvery dsp like
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20:33:16preglowbut yeah, then you need to reorder the filter coefs, i guess
20:33:21preglowlemme see
20:33:40gunpowdahrm, I spoke too soon
20:33:59gunpowdaI placed my plugin's .c file in the plugins dir, but it hasn't emerged after make as a .rock
20:34:15amiconnThis instruction needs 2 cycles when used standalone (no multiplier contention) and 3 cycles when there is multiplier contention
20:34:20linuxstbI changed my plugin to just fill the audio buffer with flac data, and then decode it (it was writing a wav file before, and also reading one compressed frame at a time) and it's only a tiny bit faster.
20:34:25preglowamiconn: reordering the coefs is a piece of cake
20:34:29preglowamiconn: should be very easy
20:34:50amiconnSo maybe it's no too bad, we could simulate going backwards by interspersing an ADD #-2,Rm inbetween
20:35:00amiconnWouldn't cost any extra cycles...
20:35:04preglowamiconn: but yeah
20:35:14DigiLifecould someone inform a n00b what rockbox's feature list is? i didnt find a link for that on the site and i'm wondering what rockbox can ac tually do for my ipod photo?
20:35:15Mikachugunpowda: you need to edit the SOURCES file
20:35:20preglowamiconn: like i said, reordering coefs = piece of cake, so you don't need to waste instructions
20:35:23MikachuDigiLife: look harder...
20:35:25preglowamiconn: does it have a code cache?
20:35:39preglowthen this is not going to be easy
20:35:47amiconnpreglow: why?
20:35:49preglowthe move to mac.w wont win you so much that this'll magically work
20:36:26amiconnpreglow: It depends. If the C version uses 32 bit multiplies, we'd gain *much* from switching to MAC
20:36:28RoC_MMbookmarks kick butt for long podcasts
20:36:36preglowamiconn: ahh, yeah, and that it does
20:36:40amiconn(or even from using 16 bit multiplies)
20:36:54gunpowdacool, thanks. is that what a patch normally does?
20:36:54amiconn32x32 is a *subroutine* on SH1
20:37:54amiconnpreglow: For 44.1kHz stereo, realtime means getting below 125 cpu cycles per sample
20:37:57preglowamiconn: decoder.c line 256, you just need to iterate the array backwards
20:38:17amiconn(individual sample, not stereo pair)
20:38:27preglowamiconn: 125 cycles per sample will work fine for the lpc_decode alone, but there's more overhead as well
20:38:38preglowamiconn: _lots_ of bit fiddling
20:38:39amiconnMost instructions are single cycle, but some aren't
20:39:46preglowamiconn: unfortunately, there's no way to say, just decode every other sample with flac, so you can't downsample
20:39:52DigiLifethanks Mikachu
20:40:43preglowthe fact that you can't preload the coefs and still use mac.w sucks badly
20:40:47preglowthat might save you quite some cycles
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20:45:01amiconnpreglow: What's this qlevel? Is it really variable?
20:45:17 Quit RoC_MM (Remote closed the connection)
20:45:31preglowamiconn: it's the shift factor, and yes, it truly is
20:45:36preglowvaries from frame to frame
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20:46:13amiconnNo variable shift in SH1
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20:46:56preglowamiconn: it varies between 10 and 9 in a file i've got here, standard compression level
20:47:46amiconnWell, it's possible to precalculate jumps into a streak of shift instrutions, like I do in the vertical scrolling functions
20:47:59preglowamiconn: it's ten, moistly
20:48:06linuxstbOK, taking the disk reading out, flac -8 is currently decoding at about 15% realtime. flac -0 is 28% realtime.
20:48:27amiconnThe worst thing is that there are *only* single arithmetic shifts
20:49:01amiconnThere are tricks available for shifting right by 16 or 24
20:49:13amiconn(do a logical shift, then sign-extend)
20:49:29preglowamiconn: tough luck, as you've probably noticed, it's an arithmetic right shift
20:49:45preglownot fakable
20:50:29amiconnI'd expect around 50 cycles per sample for the lpc decoding alone (order 8)
20:50:35preglowas far as i can guess, this wont be possible unless you do the whole thing in asm
20:50:50preglowamiconn: and most frames are length 8
20:51:03preglowyou'll seldom see anything below 6
20:51:05bam_anyone got experience with themes?
20:51:18preglowamiconn: that fast ram?
20:51:22bam_I want to remove the genre from this line
20:51:55bam_%t5Genre: %?ig<%ig|Unspecified>;%t5%?fc<%fbkbps mp1|%fbkbps mp2|%fbkbps mp3|WAV|%fbkbps OGG|FLAC|%fbkbps MPC|%fbkbps A52|WAVPACK|UNKNOWN>;%?bp<%t5Charging: %bl%% (%bt)|%?bl<%t0|%t0|%t0|%t0|%t5Battery: %bl%% (%bt)>>
20:51:57amiconnpreglow: RAM is essentially single-cycle. There are only 2 cases where dram is slower than iram:
20:52:17amiconn(1) opening a new page takes 2 extra cycles (it's fast page dram)
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20:53:11amiconn(2) load/store instructions running from dram always cause memory contention, meaning one extra cycle
20:53:54preglowamiconn: how big is a page?
20:54:20amiconn(1) might still cause major delays, if the code is running from DRAM and the data is located in another page
20:54:31amiconnThen each data access causes 2 page changes
20:55:08preglowwell, how big is a page?
20:55:17preglowif you allocate the codec plugin buffer at a page boundary, it might work well
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20:58:33BoD[]Hello, world!
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21:03:30 Part not
21:06:04gunpowdaall this patch does is add playlist_create to plugin.c
21:06:46gunpowdaI added 'playlist.create' within static const struct plugin_api rockbox_api = { and I still get the error 'struct plugin_api has no member named playlist_create'
21:07:34linuxstbamiconn: If you want to test FLAC -
21:07:37amiconnpreglow: 1 row is 1K words (2Kbyte)
21:07:52Mikachugunpowda: you need to add plugin api functions both to plugin.c and plugin.h, at the same place
21:07:55 Quit bam_ (Remote closed the connection)
21:09:38gunpowdaah, it's also in plugin.h, but I guess it must be further down
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21:10:24amiconnlinuxstb: You shouldn't need to redefine the I*_ATTR macros
21:10:37amiconnThey are already defined as empty for non-core code on archos
21:12:02preglowhave you used all of it?
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21:13:53gunpowdathat did the trick, thanks Mikachu.
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21:14:54gunpowdathis plugin works *perfectly*
21:15:11]RowaN[guys what is this "First keypress enables backlight only" Patch.. i mean, the backlight already comes on when you first press a button, be it navi or any other
21:15:14Mikachuwhich one was it?
21:15:25Mikachu]RowaN[: yes, but it also does something
21:15:33gunpowdaiPlay - reads in ipod playlists and tracks from itunesDB
21:15:34Mikachu]RowaN[: with the option on, it _only_ turns on the backlgiht
21:15:44]RowaN[what does it not do?
21:15:57]RowaN[ah you mean it doesnt go back to the file tree?
21:16:14Mikachuwhen you press a button, it turns on the backlight, nothing else
21:16:35]RowaN[i'd turn that on if i was seriously drunk and it was night time
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21:21:16KohlrabiFirst keypress enables backlight only <−− is this in CVS/daily now?
21:22:12safetydanKohlrabi, CVS, not sure about daily
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21:22:57linuxstbamiconn: I need to undefine them for libffmpegFLAC - but feel free to clean up that patch if you think it will be worth committing it.
21:22:58Kohlrabigreat feature :-)
21:23:25gunpowdawheel's better for ipod users though
21:23:27KohlrabiI always switched the lock on and off to enable backlight
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21:28:10*preglow starts working on the new crossfeed
21:28:42gunpowdamy other plugins now display 'unsupported version'
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21:29:35gunpowdahmm, even music playing doesn't work
21:29:48amiconnlinuxstb: You're right about the redefinition, because something in firmware/export/config.h is (unforeseeable) wrong for archos:
21:30:07amiconnline 216 should read:
21:30:21amiconn(((CONFIG_CPU == SH7034) && !defined(PLUGIN) && !defined(CODEC)) ||
21:30:32amiconnThen you shouldn't need to redefine
21:33:09gunpowdaperhaps because I changed the rockbox but not all the plugins
21:34:06linuxstbamiconn: Just tried it now, but it doesn't work. Seems that CODEC isn't defined when I'm building libffmpegFLAC
21:34:47 Quit imphasing ("Yee!")
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21:37:30linuxstbamiconn: The CFLAGS in libffmpegFLAC/Makefile didn't include -DCODEC. Adding that, and your fix works. All the codec makefiles should probably have that.
21:38:12amiconnI think so too
21:39:06 Quit DJ_Dooms_Day (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:39:30 Quit XavierGr ()
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21:42:33linuxstbamiconn: I've also found a bug in my flac2wav plugin - you should replace the four references to MAX_BLOCKSIZE with MAX_BLOCKSIZE*4 in lines 294-299
21:42:40gunpowdaquick question - when compiling how can I get it to generate only the files I need to copy to .rockbox?
21:43:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:43:31Paul_The_Nerdgunpowda: After you compile, if you do "make zip" then you get the same sort of you'd download
21:48:14safetydanwoo... one 3.0 release bug closed
21:49:29preglowthis bastard'll be a tricky asm port
21:51:37 Quit zhilik ("")
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21:54:11amiconnHmm. One of the problems the blind users have with wheel navigation on iPod is most likely because the voice UI still doesn't preempt old clips when it should
21:54:27preglowamiconn: the whole click wheel thing is difficult if you're blind
21:54:37preglowamiconn: it's hard to find the buttons without feeling your way to it
21:55:00amiconnThis way many file clips are spoken in full length, although moving to a new file should immediately preempt the old clip and speak the new one
21:55:04preglowamiconn: which, as i've noticed when i try to skip a track with the nano in my jacket pocket, almost always also has you involuntarily adjusting the volume
21:55:11godzirraHrm.. I just froze my ipod... How do I reset it now? lol
21:55:20preglowgodzirra: press select and menu
21:55:22godzirraIt wasnt a new install or anything.. just froze after charging via USB and I ejected it.
21:55:23preglowgodzirra: and hold pressed
21:55:41godzirranevermind.. I'm just stupid and forgot to unlock it.
21:56:08 Quit Sinbios ("If the definition of a klutz is someone who doesn't have eyes on their ass, then yes, I suppose I am a klutz.")
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21:56:59preglowamiconn: don on the list also has a point, with the few buttons, we've had to have double actions on some of them, and it's not always easy to figure out which you triggered
21:57:33godzirraAny word on video on the 5g/
21:57:41preglowgodzirra: it's a faaaar way off
21:57:52godzirraOk, just curious. ;) I'm glad my battery icon works now.
21:57:56preglowmost of us don't care much about video
21:58:12godzirraSome of us do. Unfortunately I'm part of the "us" that cant develop anything not perl. :)
21:58:53preglowperl's the best anyway
21:59:09godzirraI like it.
21:59:16godzirraBut it doesnt get video on my rockbox enabled ipod. :)
21:59:17amiconn"Dome formats come with a built-in typo". roflmao
22:02:11 Join tucoz [0] (n=martin@rockbox/developer/tucoz)
22:08:00 Quit qwm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:08:31gunpowdasomeone really needs to fix the bootloader
22:08:38 Join Vertigo_t [0] (
22:08:41gunpowdathe key detection is so haphazard
22:08:53Mikachuyou just have to get it down
22:09:06gunpowdait takes me about 5 goes before menu is detected
22:09:26gunpowdaif I have it held down before the apple logo shows up, it's not detected
22:09:36gunpowdaif I press it as soon as the apple logo shows up, it's 50/50
22:10:15Mikachuassuming your ipod is in the deep sleep
22:10:30Mikachuyou need to press menu to power it up, and then release and press again
22:10:56Mikachuif you just keep it held down it won't work
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22:11:40 Quit pabs (Nick collision from services.)
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22:16:08muesli__who is dan btw?=
22:16:27*preglow points to safetydan
22:16:47muesli__safetydan arround?
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22:19:24 Quit JoeBorn ("Leaving")
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22:20:26safetydanmuesli__, yo
22:21:04muesli__once you adjusted the sleep timer...could we have smaller adjustments back?
22:21:19muesli__0-15-30 are too big
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22:21:33safetydanah okay... the problem is the set_int function only lets you set one step size
22:21:45webguest50 spammer alert
22:21:49 Part webguest50
22:22:06muesli__once upon a time there were 1-minute steps...fantastic..
22:22:09gunpowdacan rockbox display id3 information when viewing a playlist?
22:22:38 Quit solexx_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:23:08safetydangunpowda, it can't really since that would mean loading all the files in the playlist to parse the metadata
22:23:21gunpowdaoh, right
22:23:49safetydanmuesli__, without some sort of step size increment, one minute step size would be pretty painful to set a two hour sleep time for example
22:23:53gunpowdathe iPlay plugin is a good first step
22:24:49muesli__safetydan it speeds up when pressing longer. would be ok. and, you dont want to sleep in 2h but in 15-30mins :o
22:25:08Paul_The_Nerdgunpowda: Rockbox's own database format is a much better first step.
22:25:35safetydanmuesli__, true, maybe I'll change that now
22:26:03muesli__you would be my hero for the rest of the month :-)
22:26:53gunpowdaPaul_The_Nerd, yeah. but that'll take a few weeks I guess
22:27:09gunpowdaoh, I misread that. I thought you were talking about tagcache
22:27:34Paul_The_Nerdgunpowda: Actually, rockbox's database has worked since before iPods were supported. Tagcache will just be replacing it, as a better way.
22:28:09gunpowdaso tagcache will work with iTunes as well as non-ipod players?
22:28:23Paul_The_NerdYou're not asking something that makes sense.
22:28:32Paul_The_NerdDo you mean "iPod and non-iPods" or "With itunes?"
22:29:25 Quit obo ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'")
22:29:27gunpowdaI mean, will tagcache for rockbox on iPods read the iTunes id3 db, and for all other players will it create one?
22:29:36safetydangunpowda, no tagcache will be its own thing
22:29:45Mikachutagcache is disjunct from itunesdb
22:29:54safetydanit will generate the database from the music files on your player
22:30:07Paul_The_Nerdgunpowda: Once you have a better database, why would you *want* the iTunes one?
22:30:25 Part carini
22:31:54gunpowdabetter in what way?
22:31:58 Quit xmixahlx ("blah blah blah")
22:32:35safetydanmuesli__, fifteen seconds to go from 0 to 5 hours with step size set to 1 minute... I guess that's not too bad
22:32:40 Join carini [0] (
22:32:45preglowgunpowda: no more itunes, that's how it's better
22:32:57Paul_The_Nerdgunpowda: Well, for one it'll support all file formats rockbox does instead of just iTunes ones. Then, it'll be generated on the unit so you can use music from *any* computer and have them added, as opposed to having to sync with something
22:32:59safetydangunpowda, it works with all suported formats?
22:33:06muesli__safetydan love ya :-)
22:33:28safetydanmuesli__, purely platonic I hope :) anyway, I'll comitt that now
22:33:31Paul_The_Nerdgunpowda: Then there's the fact that it's extensible, so that more features will show up over time. You can create "smart" playlists on-unit with the databox tool, etc....
22:33:57muesli__safetydan sure :-)
22:34:02muesli__and thx a lot
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22:35:06safetydanmuesli__, just for you
22:35:22amiconnsafetydan: 1 minute steps don't make sense, imho. 5 minutes might be better
22:35:37muesli__btw somtime somebody had a great idea about sleeping mode. set the time and the volume decreases to zero when time expires
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22:35:48*Paul_The_Nerd agrees with amiconn, because he can.
22:36:09preglow1 minute might be a bit tedious to set
22:36:14muesli__amiconn the more accurate the better it is
22:36:18Paul_The_NerdActually, yeah, fading the volume might be nice. I've actually been awakened by sound being suddenly shut off
22:36:20safetydanafter an intense internal struggle I think I agree...
22:36:24*safetydan is so easily influenced
22:36:40preglowmuesli__: with good settings accelaration: yes, without: no
22:36:47safetydanshould have thought a bit more before the commit...
22:36:59preglowyes, you have done it now
22:37:02preglowthis is now rectifiable
22:37:04preglownot <-
22:37:16safetydanthe horror and the shame I will have to live with :(
22:37:18muesli__when its done its done hrhrr
22:37:18preglowwoe is us, 1 minute sleep settings until eternity
22:37:38safetydanmuesli__, you can't tell me you would like to be able to set a 13 minute sleep time rather than a 15 minute one?
22:37:51muesli__sure :D
22:37:53muesli__not really
22:37:58muesli__but as u said
22:38:04Mikachuwhy not just ask for a number?
22:38:10muesli__1steps are more correctly than 4
22:38:12 Quit Miranda-IM|X2-5| ("A bient˘t sur ;)")
22:38:27safetydanMikachu, there isn't really a Rockbox way to do that AFAIK
22:38:31*preglow hates doing menu system coding...
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22:38:47Mikachuit's sort of silly to have a preset number of times when it's just an arbitrary number i think...
22:39:00Mikachubut i wouldn't use the feature anyhow so i shouldn't say too much
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22:39:05safetydanpreglow, give it to me, I don't find it so bad :)
22:39:10 Nick kernel_sensei is now known as kernelsensei (n=boris@gentoo/developer/kernelsensei)
22:39:31muesli__i mean you dont need the sleeptimer to fall asleep only
22:39:54preglowi need a new crossfeed settings menu with a couple of optiosn
22:40:24amiconnwrmph :(
22:40:26muesli__and for any other reason 1minute steps are more reasonable
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22:41:02 Quit MrStaticVoid ("Lost terminal")
22:41:30preglowsafetydan: i'll just rip your code for now
22:42:01 Join MrStaticVoid [0] (
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22:42:13muesli__preglow dont rape it ;)
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22:42:36amiconnPlayback stuff is obviously too high-level for me :( I don't manage to implement it
22:42:44safetydanpreglow, there should be plenty of other examples in sound_settings.c
22:42:54lostlogicit really is a good thing that there are people who like making things pretty...
22:42:56preglowmuesli__: too late :/
22:43:04safetydanI wouldn't trust my code. That's why I have a special Rockbox build that doesn't include any of my code.
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22:43:25lostlogicsafetydan: brilliant
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22:44:00 Quit carini ("Download Gaim:")
22:44:08lostlogicSOMEONE should make alarms for the pcf5060x powered targets after 3.0
22:44:13muesli__preglow jehova!
22:44:45preglowmuesli__: where!
22:45:30*muesli__ points to preglow
22:46:23preglowi honestly wasn't aware
22:46:39preglowi think i can take advantage of this new-found status
22:48:31Mikachuwould the piezo be loud enough for an alarm?
22:48:37preglownot by far
22:48:42preglowthat is, it would for me
22:48:48preglowbut i'm a light sleeper
22:49:29Mikachumaybe if you found a resonance frequence for the ipod :)
22:49:37 Join clem-vangelis [0] (
22:49:40safetydanvoice system gets very very confused when you scroll through a setting quickly
22:50:17clem-vangelishi all
22:50:38 Join mog_work [0] (
22:50:53mog_workcan rockbox see my itunes dir for music?
22:50:54 Join SereR0KR [0] (
22:51:00mog_workon my ipod
22:51:01mog_workthat is
22:51:21mog_worki just want to test it with a song but its not showing said option
22:51:37safetydanmog_work, yes, set the show all files option and look for the ipod_control (?) folder
22:51:41Mikachuyou might need to enable the show all files option
22:51:53mog_workoh thats probably it thanks
22:51:54clem-vangelisi have a little question about api
22:51:56gunpowdashould really be on by default
22:52:29safetydangunpowda, most people don't have their music in hidden folders
22:52:41mog_workit plays
22:52:43preglowi discover quite fast that i hate settings and menu code altogether
22:52:51mog_workit should be default for ipod i would think ^_^
22:53:32 Join nnod [0] (
22:53:41preglowthe only ipod specific compatability option you'll see in rockbox might be a future possibility of reading the itunes database
22:53:46clem-vangeliswith the function fgetc what is the return char or value when i reached the end of file ?
22:54:20safetydanclem-vangelis, fgetc returns an int which will be the constant EOF at end of file
22:54:52mog_workooh this firmware rocks
22:54:52clem-vangelisok thx
22:54:59mog_workis there any place to find plugins?
22:55:08Paul_The_NerdIn /.rockbox/rocks, generally
22:55:21clem-vangelisi fact oxygen 77 who is working on av3 and g4 take a aprt of your code for file manipulation
22:55:23safetydanmog_work, it ships with most of the interesting ones, they should be available under the Browse Plugins menu
22:55:27Paul_The_NerdRockbox comes with all the official ones. Other than that, there are occasionally patches for some on the tracker
22:55:27Nico_Pmog_work: they are almost all included
22:55:34mog_workahh cool
22:56:38clem-vangelison a computer the constant return is EOF but with your code what is the value ? is see #define EOF -1 is -1 the value ?
22:56:50 Quit paugh ("Leaving")
22:57:13clem-vangelissry for my english i am french
22:57:31safetydanclem-vangelis, Rockbox doesn't implement the stream API so it has no fgetc
22:58:20Nico_Pclem-vangelis: don't worry for that, there a few native english speakers here ;)
22:58:32Nico_Pet moi je suis franšais aussi
22:58:37clem-vangelisok thx :)
22:59:02 Quit [TCK] ("well, if you say so.")
22:59:03Mikachuclem-vangelis: do you smoke weed too?
22:59:20clem-vangelissome french smoke weed but not me...
22:59:24Nico_PMikachu: not all french smoke weed
22:59:26Mikachuhooray, finally one
22:59:33MikachuNico_P: that is what i was trying to find out :)
22:59:37Nico_Pi don't either
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22:59:45Mikachui didn't know you were french
22:59:53Pieter_hah, i see you have pcm playback!
22:59:58Pieter_it's a bit buggy still :)
23:00:24Pieter_but i am now listening to a very much clicking wave file of faraway by apocalyptica on my ondio :)
23:00:25Nico_PMikachu: you were talking to moos about france, right ?
23:00:55Mikachuwell, some french guy earlier had 'smoke weed every day' in his quit message
23:02:10Nico_Pso you thought all the french followed that advice ?
23:02:30Nico_Pactually, many do
23:03:04Mikachui wasn't 100% serious, but it seems that many do
23:03:53Nico_Pit's true that a lot of young people smoke weed
23:03:55Mikachuthere was a french guy in the corridor when i lived there, he was not completely there at all times
23:04:13PapricaNico_P, why don't you work on scaling bmp for the albumart?
23:04:19Nico_Pand btw, "smoke weed everyday" is from Dr. Dre ;)
23:04:50BgerMikachu today is your "weed day" obviously :P
23:05:03clem-vangelisNICO_P can i pm you ?
23:05:10MikachuBger: is my english particularly bad?
23:05:16Nico_Pclem-vangelis: yes
23:05:46BgerMikachu haha no, it isn't... mine isn't good too, but i don't go high ..
23:05:56Nico_PPaprica: because i have other more important things i want to do with album art
23:06:22Nico_Plike putting it in the right place in memory
23:06:44 Nick DrMoos is now known as Moos (
23:06:44Nico_Pbut if it's not too CPU-intensive, it might be a good idea
23:06:45MikachuBger: i don't do any sorts of drugs
23:07:18PapricaIMO scaling is very importent for it, instead of 10th bitmpas per folder ;]
23:07:36BgerMikachu even medicine?
23:07:58Paul_The_NerdMan, I change my WPS like, once every two months or so
23:07:59Papricabut what you mention is high priority
23:08:01MoosMikachu: Hey, is the fact some people smoke a bit of weed shock you or what? :)
23:08:03MikachuBger: "drugs" isn't "medicine" in swedish
23:08:31MoosMikachu: drugs are used in medicine !
23:08:44Moosof course and since the start
23:09:11Nico_PPaprica: if you want to help, you're welcome :)
23:09:17Nico_Pi don't have much time to code right now
23:09:23Nico_Por at least i'm not supposed to
23:09:52Bger"i don't like the drugs but the drugs like me..."
23:10:35Nico_PBger: i've been waiting for you return
23:10:45BgerNico_P ah
23:10:47Nico_Pat least if you are also Bg3r
23:10:50MoosMicachu: THC is nothing, compare to the really danger of others like heroine, opium...
23:10:57Bgeryes, i am
23:11:09Bger3 is @ work, "e" is @ home
23:11:37Nico_Pah... good to know
23:11:52Nico_Pi wanted to talk to you about the backlight on first keypress thing
23:11:57Nico_Pyou were working on it ?
23:12:16Bgeri *was*, but Zagor commited it before me :)
23:12:25Bgerit's in the cvs now
23:12:34Nico_P yeah it's my patch ;)
23:12:45Papricasomthing is wrong with the current cvs
23:12:46MoosMicachu: I studied cerebral medicine,and I can tell you THC is benefic for some people and harmful for others
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23:13:04MikachuMoos: alright, i don't misuse any drugs
23:13:21lImbushia ll
23:13:27Papricait happens to me to
23:13:34MoosSalut lImbus !
23:13:42Papricaand no, i'm not using the exp build
23:13:47tucozDo you think the party mode should start playing a track if no track is playing or the current track is paused?
23:14:12lImbuslu Moos
23:14:25BgerMikachu u aren't fit for a French ..
23:14:29Nico_Pwow c rÚunion de franšais ici :D
23:14:36tucozAs it is now, if that is the case, you have to turn off party mode, start playing a track and start party mode again.
23:14:39lImbusno, belgian
23:14:53Mooshehe :)
23:15:03lImbusI persist on that :-)
23:15:12Moosdon't make mikachu afraid :)
23:15:26 Quit SereR0KR ("XChat Aqua")
23:15:30lImbuswhy should I ? how could I ?
23:15:30Nico_Pwe are all weed smokers
23:15:47MoosNico_P: XD
23:15:52Nico_PBger: it's my patch :D
23:15:53Bgeror tobacco ...
23:16:00BgerNico_P yeah, it is
23:16:15Nico_Pok, just wanted to make sure you knew ^^
23:16:17Bgeri'm planning some changes, however
23:16:25Nico_Plike ?
23:16:45Nico_Palso i wanted to know why button release events needed to be filtered...
23:16:47Bgerlike diff settings for main/remote... eating hte button release
23:17:04*preglow misuses some beer
23:17:10Nico_Pactually i don't really understand what they are for
23:17:37*Moos doesn't drink any alcohl
23:17:42BgerNico_P when u press button, u get a BUTTON_BLAH ... when u release it,u get BUTTON_BLAH|BUTTON_REL
23:17:43tucozpreglow, I assume you pour it out in the toilet then
23:17:47Nico_Pand main/remote i was planning on doing, but there seems to have a patch already
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23:18:06Bgerah, already ??
23:18:30tucozpreglow, cause that would be misuse
23:18:35Nico_Phaven't had a look at it though
23:19:09lImbuspreglow should be punished with milk (not less than a cow full) for misusing beer
23:19:14Nico_Pfor release envents : ok but why do they need to be filtered... would you have an example for me ?
23:19:28MooslImbus: haha :D
23:19:31Bgeryeah, good contributors :)
23:19:41preglowtucoz: i would be hanging from the roof if i ever did that and realised it
23:19:46 Quit mikearthur ("Konversation terminated!")
23:20:04tucozhehe, me too. I suppose you simply enjoy your beer then
23:20:21preglowi've had this pint for around an hour now
23:20:24Nico_Pi don't like beer...