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#rockbox log for 2006-04-01

00:02:59 Quit BHSPitLappy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:03:03 Join BHSPitLappy2 [0] (
00:05:00 Nick BHSPitLappy2 is now known as BHSPitLappy (
00:07:07 Quit Bger ("Killed (KrON (Requested by panasync))")
00:08:34 Join sean [0] (
00:08:56 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
00:09:07miner49erwhy, when I try to checkout from cdv, do I not get the latest stuff. i.e. spacerocks not asteroids?
00:09:31webguest03You get the current state of Rockbox..
00:09:54miner49erhi Paul_the_nerd!
00:10:11Paul_The_NerdSpacerocks? Asteroids?
00:10:15seanhey i found one problem with rockbox
00:10:23seanthe battery display?
00:10:35seananyone else notice its always full?
00:10:36peturonly one? ;)
00:10:59Paul_The_Nerdsean: You're on some sort of iPod, I'm guessing?
00:11:25miner49erahh, uuh?
00:11:55miner49erman, i'm listening to some cool music at the moment...
00:15:11seanyeah ipod
00:15:35*sean np: Diamond Head - Am I Evil "Lightning to the Nations"
00:17:12KyomiPaul_The_Nerd: Are you doing the experimental build?
00:18:13seanis there a known glitch with the battery display not being acurate?
00:18:24seanwell, more unacurate than it already was =P
00:18:30Paul_The_NerdKyomi: Nope. I have nothing to do with the experimental builds. I'm 100% for people doing their own personal builds.
00:18:36webguest03sean: I don't think it has been calibrated yet
00:18:41Paul_The_NerdThe experimental ones often lead to confusion and erroneous bug reports.
00:19:18KyomiI only asked because the one doing it... said it was in-sync with mar 31 CVS.. but I boot it up and it still says mar 30
00:19:21Paul_The_Nerdsean: There's a well known "it's not enabled on all ipod types yet, and for those where it isn't it should read 100% all the time" :)
00:19:47*webguest03 thought battery status was sortof-working on some models
00:20:17seani how would one go about knowing how much battery he has left....booting to disc mode?
00:20:24Paul_The_NerdKyomi: Odd.
00:20:34Paul_The_Nerdsean: Yeah, basically.
00:21:10 Quit petur ()
00:21:33seanand the only way out of disc mode is a hard restart? menu + select?
00:22:27KyomiIs the Doom guy still here?
00:22:34Paul_The_NerdThe Doom guy?
00:22:37*webguest03 rummages through Misticriver and finds no "If you think you've found a bug, STOP. Then install a clean build and try to reproduce"
00:22:41seandoom was an awesome game
00:22:47webguest03This might be a problem..
00:22:49KyomiYeah the one that made the doom game for rockbox :)
00:22:55Kyomidoom I/II
00:22:59Paul_The_Nerdwebguest03: I've said that on several threads.
00:23:08seandoom 1 and 2!!!
00:23:11seansean interested!
00:23:20KyomiYou still need to have the wad files for it :P
00:23:26Paul_The_NerdKyomi: That's Karl. He's in the room right now, but he's got no iPod so he's not the one to look to with "It doesn't work on iPod" complaints.
00:23:27seanhahahaha i think i have em
00:23:30webguest03Paul_The_Nerd: Yeah, I meant in the announcement threads etc.
00:23:58KyomiThe only way I know of is to get the experimental build on
00:24:10KyomiAnd you have it :)
00:24:10Paul_The_Nerdwebguest03: That was part of the intention with getting it changed from "Optimized" to "Experimental" but there are still actual bug reports filed about bugs that don't exist in CVS.
00:24:11seanhey kyomi got a question for ya....ever play doom3
00:24:27KyomiNever finished it though
00:24:31KyomiYes again
00:24:37KyomiAlthough... awhile ago
00:24:37webguest03Paul_The_Nerd: Yeah, people need more disclaimers, probably
00:24:46seanthey released the whole first epi
00:24:51 Quit miner49er ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.11")
00:24:52seanit came out pretty godly
00:25:08KyomiSo they did finish it :)
00:25:14KyomiThe one I had was only like 3 random levels
00:25:20KyomiIt was looking pretty neat
00:25:21seanand online coop via last man standing
00:25:28seanit really came out astonishingly good
00:25:53Paul_The_Nerdwebguest03: That's why I'm willing to go through hours of responding to posts on the forums helping people get through the process of building their own. At least that way they're much more aware of the fact that there are significant changes being made by patching.
00:26:19seani really gotta use real irc for this channel....web irc is lackluste
00:26:52 Join miner49er [0] (
00:27:45seanwhats the server again?
00:28:04 Quit sean ("CGI:IRC")
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00:34:53 Quit RotAtoR (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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00:38:40 Quit miner49er (Remote closed the connection)
00:38:48 Quit sean ()
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00:49:49webguest03A misticriver mod should edit the first post of the custom-build threads with some sort of disclaimer telling people what to make of them
00:50:41 Quit BHSPitLappy (Connection timed out)
00:54:32Paul_The_NerdAnother problem common with them is that people make WPSes that only work in the experimental builds, and it confuses new users when WPSes they download don't work right. So then there are bug reports saying something like "wps doesn't display right" and the build is CVS, but the WPS requires patches.
00:55:02webguest03That's quite unfortunate
00:55:22webguest03More unfortunate is all this artistic talent "wasted" on building wpses that will never work with mainline rockbox
00:55:37webguest03(using the margin-patches)
00:56:04webguest03don't know if that's more unfortunate, but it is also unfortunate, at least
00:56:05Paul_The_NerdWell, I'm sure the patches will be adjusted to use viewports when they become available.
00:56:13 Nick imphasing is now known as imphasing_ (
00:56:21webguest03Won't they simply be obsolete?
00:57:49Paul_The_NerdWell, yes and no. Ideally viewports should allow old WPSes to work just fine, they will assume for text a viewport the height of one line, and the width of the screen (for each line of text) so that old WPSes display the same.
00:58:13Paul_The_NerdSo, all someone would have to do is strip the margin tag out, and set up narrower viewports for those lines, and it'd probably work again.
00:59:09webguest03Yeah, so you'd use a more general approach to changing the margins of all elements, instead of the ones now used for progressbar, being a part of the %pb tag itself?
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00:59:20 Quit webguest03 ("CGI:IRC")
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01:00:56Paul_The_NerdI really don't know
01:01:39Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: How exactly viewports will work?
01:02:17webguest03Hrm, the WhyRockbox page needs some sort of hwcodec/swcodec split
01:02:56Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: Ideally you'll either set an upper left and lower right corner, or an upper left, width, and height. Inside of that you can put text or images and each viewport is treated like its own screen (only scrolls to the edge of the viewport, each one can have its own font hopefully, so on)
01:03:23Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: But the proposal isn't finalized yet by any means.
01:03:48 Quit RoC_MM ("Leaving")
01:04:06Genre9mp3so you could use simple text with viewports...
01:04:22Genre9mp3this could solve many aligment problems
01:04:51Genre9mp3And I don't think that it will be hard to update those margin tags
01:04:52Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: Yes, it would allow you to position text wherever you wanted.
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01:06:22Genre9mp3So, is there a progress on this or just a proposal?
01:07:02Paul_The_NerdAt the moment, it's more proposal than anything else. I don't know if anyone's working on it, but it's one of the features that's hope for 3.1
01:07:13RoC_MMWhat feature is that?
01:07:25 Join AwayKrimi [0] (
01:07:35RoC_MMWhat's that essentially?
01:08:00Paul_The_NerdCheck the log, I just explained it once already. :)
01:08:37Genre9mp3So, if I get it right, since viewports will behave like a small screen, we could use different fonts on each?
01:08:52webguest03Not inherently
01:09:01Paul_The_Nerdwebguest03: that's one of the intents of it though
01:09:53Paul_The_Nerdwebguest03: Another one is to open up the Menu in a viewport, to allow some more customization there.
01:10:05webguest03Good to hear, not sure I understand how the two are related, but I guess that's why I'm not a developer
01:10:16 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
01:10:35Genre9mp3...or maybe view the playlist...
01:11:01Genre9mp3I really like this vieport idea...
01:11:29linuxstb_The idea will be to have pop-up windows - so on the larger LCDs, the menu will appear on top of the WPS for example.
01:11:35linuxstb_(I think...)
01:12:02RoC_MMthat would make "press menu to show and menu to hide menu" more intuitive
01:12:07Paul_The_Nerdwebguest03: One of the big problems with multiple fonts on one screen is the fact that scrolling is based on font height. So, limiting one font per viewport, but allowing viewports to have different fonts requires less rework of the scrolling code.
01:12:34linuxstb_RoC_MM: Exactly. Menus act like pop-up menus at the moment, but it's not obvious.
01:13:15RoC_MMSound sweet.
01:13:34webguest03Paul_The_Nerd: I see. Makes sense.
01:13:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:13:58Paul_The_Nerdwebguest03: So yes, while no direct correlation, viewports makes multifont somewhat less difficult if I understand correctly
01:14:40Genre9mp3This could be used also for the rwps....
01:14:46 Quit kclaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:15:56RoC_MMAnybody want a working 10.4gig hard drive (you pay $7 shipping)?
01:17:14Genre9mp3And what about scalability in the wps? Would this be possible?
01:17:34Genre9mp3Have one wps file work for all targets?
01:19:13Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: That's *much* more difficult.
01:20:08Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: I mean, how do you pick which font to use for each target? Do you design small and scale the images up, or big and scale them down? What if the screen has a different height/width ratio?
01:20:37Genre9mp3The ratio would be a problem...
01:20:48Paul_The_NerdThe fonts would be a problem too.
01:21:13Galoisoperating systems have vectorized fonts just for this purpose
01:21:15Genre9mp3But I think it would be better scale the images down
01:21:34Paul_The_NerdGalois: Operating systems can afford to waste CPU time on vectorized fonts.
01:22:21Genre9mp3Or, we could use target definitions but this would result on huge wps files
01:22:42Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: Yeah, but how is that any different from people just making separate WPS files for separate targets?
01:22:47Galoiswell I'm just bitter because none of the wps's work really well with unifont on nano
01:23:13Paul_The_NerdGalois: Well, there aren't many WPS creators making Nano ones...
01:23:51Genre9mp3When creating would make no difference
01:24:13Genre9mp3But would be more user friendly to have a wps file work for all targets
01:24:18GaloisI'm not interested in a plethora of choices, I'd be happy with just one that worked...
01:24:38Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: Why's that? The WPS gallery is already split so you know which ones work on what targets...
01:24:45Paul_The_NerdGalois: Then why not just make one, if all you want is one?
01:25:11Galoisbecause there are other things competing for my time right now that I want more
01:25:44Paul_The_NerdGalois: Then I don't really see it as something to be bitter about.
01:25:59 Quit bluebrother^ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:26:17Galoisokay okay I apologize, it's a bit early for the april 1st
01:26:34Genre9mp3Yes...the wps galleries are seperated, like the wps creators, making wps for specific targets...
01:27:02Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: But what makes you think they'd bother to put in definitions for all targets, if they don't bother to make ones for other targets now?
01:27:31Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: All you'd get was a bunch of WPSes that when you try them tell you "Unsupported Target" rather than now where you know in advance you're not supported.
01:27:47Genre9mp3You are right...they probably would not...
01:28:24Genre9mp3but they wouldn't have to if there was a scalable wps system
01:28:50Genre9mp3BTW, are there any plans for album art in the CVS?
01:28:56Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: Again, who do you handle the Font question, the "Images would look horrible" question, the "Text in images would quickly become unreadable" question, and the aspect question?
01:30:05Paul_The_NerdAlbum Art is one of the proposed features for Fireworks, but I wouldn't be surprised if it made it into CVS earlier than that. It all depends on the patch author, I guess, or if someone adopts it.
01:30:49Genre9mp3I see some work by the author lately...
01:31:14Paul_The_NerdYeah, he's definitely clearly getting things done.
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01:33:39Genre9mp3About scaling the images....would a technique like Anti-Aliasing improve some things?
01:34:04 Quit darkless_ (Client Quit)
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01:34:37Paul_The_NerdIt wouldn't help much, especially with text in images. And remember, these are pretty slow processors you're dealing with.
01:35:04Paul_The_NerdWhat you're basically proposing is "Make WPSes take MUCH longer to load, make them eat more battery life, but hey, at least you don't have to think before downloading them"
01:35:11Galoisyou can benefit somewhat from subpixel antialiasing on the color screens, as long as the color is on
01:36:02Paul_The_NerdGalois: That only really works will with B&W images though. With color it becomes much more difficult, and you still need some sort of edge detection if you're using raster images. If you went to vector images, it becomes even worse because of how slow the processors are.
01:36:25Galoiswell, I'm not concerned about images, I only care about text
01:36:42Paul_The_NerdGalois: Again, bitmapped fonts are used for a reason. It's very unlikely this will change.
01:36:59Paul_The_NerdGalois: Also, remember that text color can be chosen, and text can be displayed on top of a color background image.
01:37:20webguest03Subpixel rendering and antialiasing are two very different things
01:37:49Galoiscall it subpixel rendering if you wish
01:37:58 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC")
01:38:35DBordellois it possible to have a different font for the WPS than the menus? I find that the one i like for the wps is too small
01:38:46Galoissubpixel rendering can be done on bitmapped fonts as well, as long as the subpixel order remains constant. Changing the text color would indeed screw it up though.
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01:39:13linuxstbDBordello: No, not yet.
01:39:14webguest03Antialiasing seems more likely than actual subpixel rendering
01:39:24webguest03Don't even know if the screens are suitable for subpixel rendering?
01:39:45Genre9mp3DBordello: There's a multifont patch in the patchtracker
01:39:45Galoiscolor lcds, pretty much by definition, can do subpixel rendering
01:39:48Paul_The_Nerdwebguest03: I think that the H300 isn't, but others are.
01:40:00DBordelloah, would that slow it down too much, or is it going to be incorporated at some point?
01:40:31Paul_The_NerdGalois: Some of them have RGB vertically instead of horizontally I believe. I could be wrong on that one though. So you get an increased resolution along the other axis, which isn't quite as helpful.
01:40:46Paul_The_NerdDBordello: There's actually a patch for different fonts in different screens in the tracker.
01:40:53Galoisoh, but the increased vertical resolution is especially helpful for chinese and japanese characters!!
01:41:21Galoisso unifont users could still benefit
01:41:37Paul_The_NerdGalois: It is indeed. But it's a moot point, since it doesn't fit well with color text and backgrounds.
01:41:43webguest03Except unifont is bitmapped
01:41:53Galoisagain, bitmaps can be subpixel rendered
01:42:03midkayhi all
01:42:15midkayPaul_The_Nerd, yes, i used to be midknight, nice catch.. :)
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01:42:24Paul_The_NerdGalois: Cleartype is a technique applies to truetype fonts.
01:42:31Galoisthe point is
01:42:34Galoisthat .gif is a bitmap
01:42:36Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: It seemed likely, yes.
01:42:41Galoisand it is subpixel rendered
01:42:43webguest03Galois: not unless they're prepared for it
01:42:48Paul_The_NerdGalois: Yeah, but the calculations are done while drawing the font, not after its drawn.
01:42:52Galoisthus proving, in principle, that you can do subpixel rendering with a bitmap
01:42:54afruff23in here:
01:42:59afruff23isn't the xample wrong?
01:43:09afruff23because the middle subline has no time specified
01:43:15afruff23or am i wrong?
01:43:19Galoisyou can cut and paste letters out of that .gif and get the font bitmaps without doing the calculations
01:43:23Paul_The_NerdGalois: You'd have to do edge detection, which really isn't that hard in a monochrome image.
01:43:51Paul_The_NerdGalois: Cutting and pasting letters out of that would assume a White background, and black text, *and* require that the font file use something other than a 1-bit image.
01:43:56linuxstbGalois: How well does that work with different font colours and background colours (and background images)?
01:44:14Galoisit doesn't. You'd have to trade away color selection.
01:44:21Kyomiwrong window ^^;;
01:44:23Galoishere's an example that doesn't involve truetype:
01:44:30*webguest03 loathe subpixel rendering anyway.. I see the colours - you ain't fooling me, Render McSmartypants
01:44:33Galoisin fact, that example doesn't involve fonts at all
01:44:51 Part RoC_MM ("Leaving")
01:44:54Paul_The_NerdGalois: Yeah, but again it is applied to a vector in a monochrome image.
01:44:56GaloisI meant to paste
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01:45:01afruff23isn't this wrong: "%s%t4%ia;%s%it;%t3%pc %pr"
01:45:09afruff23the middle subline has no time specified
01:45:12afruff23am I right?
01:45:15webguest03Galois: ew
01:45:18Paul_The_NerdGalois: It's not really a feature that benefits rockbox.
01:45:23webguest03That's gross
01:45:24afruff23it's on
01:45:29Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: I think that just uses the default time then
01:45:39Genre9mp3which is 2 seconds
01:45:45 Quit Lynx_ (" bye")
01:45:50afruff23oh you're right
01:46:28afruff23do you think that 2 secodns is too short/long to view the shuffle status before switching to repeat status?
01:46:29Galoispeoples opinions of features differ. I'd personally much rather have subpixel rendering than user-selectable text colors.
01:46:37Galoisbut yeah yeah I know how this open source thing works
01:47:24Paul_The_NerdGalois: Subpixel rendering requires that you calculate whether the vector lands on the left or right side of a single pixel, so that you can choose to either turn off the blue, or turn on the adjacent red. This essentially requires vector based fonts, or that you do edge detection, calculate the vectors, and then use subpixel rendering on them. It doesn't work well with pure raster images.
01:47:34afruff23I want to switch between shuffle and repeat status using sublines; is two seconds enough to view each one's status?
01:47:35*webguest03 thinks that subpixel rendering might work if pixels were physically much smaller than they are
01:47:51GaloisI strongly and vigorously dispute the ridiculous notion that subpixel rendering requires vector calculations
01:47:56Genre9mp3I'd make it 3 sec but you can always test this to see what is best
01:47:59Galoisyou can do it with a stored bitmap. Store a pre-rendered a
01:48:09Galoisdisplay that a whenever an a is needed
01:48:12Galoispoof! done
01:48:17afruff23yea, I was thinking 3 seconds as well
01:48:52Paul_The_NerdGalois: Then A) It only applies to fonts, B) You need different fonts for RGB and BGR screens, and C) You need different fonts for the H300, and D) You need different fonts for the monochrome targets.
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01:49:06Galoisyes you need different fonts for each lcd, I never denied that
01:49:15Galoisand yes I said I only care about text
01:49:26Genre9mp3affruff23: You are making a wps for the X5?
01:49:30 Join fiftyfour123 [0] (
01:49:33Paul_The_NerdGalois: So how again is this in any way a good idea, since all it really does is make things very very slightly prettier?
01:49:46Paul_The_NerdWith so much cost in so many other areas?
01:49:59Galoisyou could say the same thing of user-selectable text colors, or crossfade, or any number of features in rockbox that *I* find useless
01:50:10linuxstbThat's not the issue though - it's possible for the Rockbox build system to render the fonts specifically for each target LCD. But I think the fact that it means Rockbox is forced to have a certain fg and bg colour everywhere is the sticking point.
01:51:03Paul_The_NerdI also don't think subpixel rendering looks very good, especially on many displays that have fairly large pixels. But that's just me.
01:51:51webguest03I'm of the suspicion that displays with pixels small enough that I'd accept subpixel rendering won't need it
01:52:26Paul_The_Nerdwebguest03: I'm of the opinion that monochrome shouldn't contain hints of colors here and there, but that's just me. :)
01:53:44webguest03Agreed, it jumps at my eyes
01:54:46 Quit fiftyfour123 ("Chatzilla 0.9.71 [Firefox]")
01:55:33*Paul_The_Nerd would also like to note that in the time Subpixel Rendering has been discussed, one could've easily generated a quite suitable Unifont Nano WPS.
01:55:59 Join MrStaticVoid [0] (
01:56:09Galoisactually, I just used the iriver h100 one, it's close enough
01:56:35Paul_The_NerdI just use Rockbox_Default
01:56:41Paul_The_NerdThough I removed the peakmeter
01:56:44Paul_The_NerdIt irritates me.
01:57:11scottderI use the color boxes on my nano :)
01:57:52Paul_The_NerdI used it briefly the day it came out, but it just wasn't really me.
01:58:35webmindscottder, color boxes ?
01:58:53Paul_The_NerdThere's a WPS called boxes
01:59:04Paul_The_NerdThere's an in color version for every color screen except maybe X5
01:59:07scottderyup and color version....
01:59:17scottderWhat Paul_The_Nerd said
01:59:42webmindawell, goodnight :)
02:01:02Genre9mp3goodnight from me too guys...
02:01:33 Quit Genre9mp3 ()
02:01:44scottderI am just so happy to play oggs on my ipod, the rest is gravy
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02:03:14afruff23what is the peakmeter exactly
02:03:19afruff23how is it different from volume
02:03:38midkayafruff23, it shows.. the sound output..
02:03:44midkayvolume has no effect on it.
02:03:49midkayor does volume change with the music..
02:03:51*webguest03 wonders if gl.tter is going to fork or what
02:03:53afruff23so is it like a vu meter
02:03:56webguest03Or just showing off
02:04:01midkayafruff23, right.
02:04:09midkaywebguest03, 'showing off'?
02:04:26 Quit obo ("bye")
02:04:39midkaywow, where'd you hear about that?
02:04:44webguest03Mailing list
02:04:47Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Dev mailing list. :-O
02:04:53Paul_The_Nerd:-p even
02:04:55midkayi was just there..
02:05:15webguest03I'm just wondering what he's planning on doing with his code
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02:10:57 Quit linuxstb (Nick collision from services.)
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02:11:58webguest03Fork, it seems.
02:12:03webguest03Good riddance.
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02:12:31midkaywebguest03, how does it seem that>
02:12:48 Quit fergie ()
02:12:54webguest03while he says he doesn't want to fork, that seems to be exactly what he's planning on doing
02:12:58midkayI don't have enough time (or the desire) to create and maintain an offical 'fork' (competing project), but check out my current wish-list if you fancy collaborating on a particular feature.
02:13:14midkayso he says in text that he's not.. what do you see that makes you think he is?
02:13:40webguest03The fact that he won't give back and will probably be releasing his code
02:13:55midkayhe _can't_ give back.
02:14:07midkaywhat else can he do to let people use his stuff?
02:14:15webguest03That doesn't make it less of a fork
02:14:27midkay"good riddance" why, then, i guess?
02:14:37Galoisforks are normal. libvorbis has tons of forks.
02:14:39webguest03Not that that's necessarily a bad thing
02:14:52webguest03I'm just stating that he's forking
02:14:59midkayand commenting? ;)
02:15:33webguest03And good riddance because, well, his attitude was a bit annoying, but the best of luck to him, I guess
02:16:16webguest03At least in the big signing off discussion
02:16:28midkaywebguest03, he has some very cool ideas and features.. it's too bad he can't have them accepted, i'd personally expect an attitude..
02:16:52webguest03He can. It's his own choice not to.
02:17:18midkaynot quite, close enough i guess..
02:17:44webguest03If he doesn't want to play by the rules, he'll have to play alone or with people who want other rules.
02:17:57webguest03How is it not his own choice?
02:18:04midkaythe rules are his problem, apparently..
02:18:26midkayhe could indeed choose to give his name, true..
02:18:36 Quit damaki (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:19:10GaloisI'm sure there are workarounds
02:19:17webguest03That's certainly my take on it at least.
02:19:26midkayGalois, like what?
02:19:31Galoismaybe release his changes into the public domain (which is legally binding even if done anonymously), and then a rockbox developer picks up the copyright
02:20:15Galoisthat way the contribution legally belongs to the rockbox developer
02:20:21Galoiswho is not anonymous
02:20:27*webguest03 is unsure that'd work, but I'm scetchy on what happens once code is PD
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02:23:28sharpeooh, what'd i miss now?
02:24:23Paul_The_NerdSomeone implemented viewports (theoretically) on the sly, but since he's unwilling to give out his real name doesn't meet the "contributing" guidelines.
02:25:08Rob2222this the first time i HATE rockbox
02:25:25sharpeback to sixty three million and one then.
02:26:02sharpewhat be wrong?
02:26:03Rob2222I made some screendumps on my H340.
02:26:42 Nick Kyomi is now known as Kyomi|off (
02:26:48Rob2222Now when im trying to copy the files to the PC, I get every time a pagefault in nonpaged area blue screen in fastfat.sys.
02:27:17Rob2222Cause of that damn BSOD I lost 1h of work.
02:27:32Rob2222The problem is, I dont know how to copy the files.
02:27:42Rob2222Every time the same BSOD.
02:28:25 Quit Sinbios ("If the definition of a klutz is someone who doesn't have eyes on their ass, then yes, I suppose I am a klutz.")
02:28:38Rob2222bad day.
02:28:53sharpei can find the software for my voice recorder
02:30:32sharpei know, that has nothing in comparison, but they're vagely similar problems.
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02:31:23Paul_The_NerdRob2222: What windows are you using?
02:31:29Rob2222XP SP2
02:31:50Rob2222But well. The problem occurs in iriver usb mode, too.
02:31:50*Paul_The_Nerd shrugs.
02:31:54afruff23what's BSOD?
02:31:58Paul_The_NerdBlue Screen of Death
02:32:00sharpeblue screen of death
02:32:06Galoisdoes the iriver have a hardware usb mode?
02:32:07Paul_The_NerdI would actually google for the error message you're getting.
02:32:12Paul_The_NerdGalois: No.
02:32:15afruff23does linux have a BSOD?
02:32:20Rob2222i dont know if the fat entries of the screendumps are bad
02:32:33afruff23or does it depend on the package
02:32:43Rob2222will trying to copy other files. brb
02:32:54webguest03not really
02:32:55webguest03afruff23: there's nothing comparable to bsod, no
02:33:07Galoisoops screens, maybe
02:33:13afruff23has anybody here played Halo 2
02:33:24afruff23in the multiplayer map Zanzibar
02:33:27afruff23there's a BSOD
02:33:33afruff23on a computer screen
02:33:46 Quit XavierGr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:34:25afruff23I hate the sound my monitor makes when it goes to a BSOD
02:34:30afruff23it sounds like some laser gun
02:34:51afruff23thankfully I haven't had one in months
02:35:00GaloisI'm guessing you have a CRT?
02:35:07sharpei'm so, so, unorganized.
02:35:39afruff23faster refresh rate
02:35:43afruff23than LCD
02:35:50Galoistsk tsk
02:35:55Galoishere's a neat experiment
02:36:04sharpethe cd for the software for the voice recorder i have, was under a pile of papers and dvds, with a box of marshmallow bunnies on top.
02:36:25Galoishold a pencil between your thumb and forefinger and wave it back and forth as fast as you can in front of the monitor
02:36:40afruff23is a pen okay?
02:36:44Galoison a CRT you'll see strobe images of the pencil, with the exact number depending on your refresh rate
02:37:15Galoisworks best on a white background
02:37:19Paul_The_NerdGalois: And on my laptop's LCD I see strobes as well... so what's the point?
02:37:20webguest03outstretched fingers works as well
02:37:36Galoistry a desktop lcd, laptops are a little funny
02:37:38sharpei've had windows xp with a resolution of 320x200...
02:38:20sharpewhich isn't such an acomplishment at all, just kind of funny...
02:38:25Paul_The_NerdGalois: The difference with an LCD vs a CRT is that the there's no space *between* frames. It doesn't mean that they aren't updating slower, just that there's no reason *for* there to be a flicker.
02:38:51Paul_The_NerdI'm kinda surprised there's any noticeable strobe on my laptop even
02:39:18Galoisit depends on what kind of work you do, but for certain types of work, slower updates and no flicker is better than faster updates with some flicker
02:39:36Paul_The_NerdGalois: Possibly true, but the flicker thing doesn't prove any sort of point.
02:40:22webguest03waving stuff in front of crts is still amusing though
02:40:28Paul_The_NerdOh, definitely
02:42:34 Quit b00st4 ()
02:47:49afruff23so then what's a CRT's advantage besides price
02:47:57afruff23I remember it had something
02:48:06 Quit mikearthur (Remote closed the connection)
02:48:09afruff23brighter color? more?
02:48:13Galoissome people say contrast and response time, which is true, but I don't really care about those
02:48:18GaloisCRTs have more accurate color
02:48:28sharpei never really notice the response time...
02:48:50afruff23it matters fi you're doing soemthing that requires fast reactions
02:48:54afruff23like FPS games
02:49:07afruff23but hardly affects you
02:49:23Paul_The_NerdI've seen some new HDTVs that have pretty impressive color, but in the end I just like the way CRTs look.
02:49:38Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: It's rare that you'll have a modern FPS rendering at faster than the refresh rate of a good LCD.
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02:49:54Galoislcd color can be quite impressive to be sure, but accuracy is a problem. The color doesn't even look the same from different angles!
02:49:56afruff23what's a good refresh rate
02:50:02afruff2375 hz?
02:50:04sharpei prefer lcds due to the less weight of the crt i have...
02:50:26Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Yeah, if you're noticing differences in an FPS game at above 75fps, there's something screwy in the engine.
02:50:36Galoisif you do graphic design or video editing then you need either a CRT or an LCD which is in the same position relative to your head during the entire time that you use it for production
02:51:08afruff23When I moce my head from side to side I hardly notice a difference of color on my CRT
02:51:24afruff23But what's annoying about CRT's is the movement of the pciture
02:51:43afruff23whereas on LCD's you don't have to move the pciture left, right, up, or down according to where you sit
02:51:50 Join maeck__ [0] (
02:51:51 Nick maeck__ is now known as maeck (
02:52:06sharpeheh, everytime i turn on my tv it's like a miniature degauss for my crt here...
02:52:09Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Do you have to move the picture up, down, left, or right on your TV depending on where you sit?
02:52:26GaloisI heard rumours that pro gamers can use frame rates in the hundreds of frames per second because they are able to react to an in-game object even after only a small fraction of the total screen has been rendered
02:52:28afruff23but computer monitors have protruding frame
02:52:45Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: What do you mean by "protruding frame"
02:52:55sharpethey're sharp!
02:53:03afruff23like the screen is further from you than the CRT monitor case
02:53:35afruff23not that much on soem CRT's
02:53:39Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Oh, your screen is indented relative to the border? Well, that's poor design on your CRT. It's not a problem with them as a whole
02:53:55RoC_MMGalois, rumors are rumors.
02:53:56Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: I have a flat CRT, and the frame is shallower than my TV's.
02:54:02RoC_MMReaction time is the same.
02:54:06afruff23I;ve ahd the same problem with newer ones as well
02:54:08RoC_MMVery crappy for humans.
02:54:25afruff23that have very little protrusion
02:54:45 Quit Kohlrabi (Nick collision from services.)
02:54:47Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: I thought hte problem *was* the protrusion...
02:54:51Rob2222Is there anywhere a review of Rockbox @ iRiver H340 on the net?
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02:55:07afruff23but there still is soem protrusion on newer expesnive CRT's
02:55:07Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: But you just said you had that problem with low protrusion ones...
02:55:28Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: I have to view my screen from almost parallel to the screen itself before the edge of the monitor obstructs my view...
02:55:32afruff23I have it with all protruding CRT monitors(all that I've ever used in CRT's)
02:56:12afruff23I'm saying even the newest ones still stick out a bit
02:56:28Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: I didn't say *anything* about new or old.
02:56:43Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: But I can see my CRT much more clearly from an angle than almost *any* LCD I've looked at.
02:57:02Rob2222Galois: Thx
02:57:05Paul_The_NerdOnce you take into account quality of image
02:57:13afruff23oh yea, that's true
02:57:19afruff23but that's good in some cases
02:57:23afruff23like for a laptop
02:57:32afruff23you don't want the guy next to you seeing your screen
02:57:40Galoisit's not a bug, it's a feature!
02:57:50Paul_The_NerdI don't care if they guy next to me sees my screen.
02:57:57Paul_The_NerdI'm not going to do anything private in a public place.
02:58:12Galoisdoesn't matter though, CRT on a laptop would be downright silly
02:58:32Paul_The_NerdGalois: Though supposedly we're gonna see flat (as in 'as flat as LCDs') CRTs by 2010
02:58:34afruff23well it also applies to CRT's inpublic places
02:58:55afruff23library, work, etc.
02:59:04Galoisflat CRTs are still infeasible in laptops because of power consumption
02:59:09afruff23although many offices are switching
02:59:35 Quit eEye_ ("fractal2 mirc script (ver 1.0betar2) Ě")
02:59:37Paul_The_NerdGalois: I wouldn't be surprised if some showed up in the DTR lines of laptops eventually.
02:59:45scottderby then LCD will probably be surplanted by something else too...OLED or similar
02:59:54GaloisDTR laptops are themselves silly!!
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03:00:00Paul_The_NerdGalois: How so?
03:00:24Galoisactually, I would get a DTR laptop, if they would only get rid of the battery
03:00:24Paul_The_NerdGalois: I can't lug a desktop with me easily when I visit family, or use it well in a hotel.
03:00:36Paul_The_NerdWhy get rid of the battery?
03:00:50Galoisnot worth the weight
03:01:05Galoisall of the most commonly cited DTR applications, don't require a battery
03:01:05Paul_The_NerdI dunno. A DTR laptop is hardly about being lightweight anyway
03:01:12Galoise.g. hotel, visit family
03:01:13Paul_The_NerdAnd laptops have easily jiggled/removed power cables.
03:01:29Paul_The_NerdI think of it as a built in UPS rather than simply "My laptop's battery"
03:01:37Galoisfine, make the battery small, I can live with that
03:01:43Galois10 mins battery is enough
03:01:50Paul_The_NerdI was thinking 15, but yeah, somewhere in that range.
03:02:01Paul_The_NerdThen use the extra space for cooling.
03:02:02Galoisthat's not what they do though, instead they have a huge honkin' battery
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03:13:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:16:12webguest20on the 4th generation ipod, does the eq work w/o skipping during audio?
03:16:15 Quit Vertigo_t (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:17:29sharpei need to get some paper... :D
03:18:42Paul_The_Nerdwebguest20: That depends on a lot of things, really. The format can make a difference, other options you enabled can make a difference... the answer is "Maybe"
03:19:46webguest20i dont know, i seem to randomly get skipping....even w/o the eq
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03:19:50webguest20but the eq makes it worse
03:20:26Galoismaybe you can turn off the peak meters?
03:20:34Paul_The_Nerdwebguest20: Well yeah, if you're already getting skipping the EQ will definitely make it worse.
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03:21:34webguest20any reason why id be getting skipping?
03:21:47Paul_The_NerdBecause the codecs aren't optimized?
03:22:02webguest20ummm 192kb/s mp3?
03:22:11webguest20what do you mean by codec?
03:22:16Paul_The_NerdMp3 is one of the worst codecs on ipod at the moment.
03:22:23ashridahwebguest03: does the audio thread debug view show the pcm buffer hitting bottom?
03:22:44Paul_The_Nerdwebguest20: Try using a simple WPS that does not have a peakmeter, and little or no graphics
03:23:34webguest20which one of the wps's are the least?
03:23:37webguest20of the default included
03:23:57Paul_The_NerdWell, if you took rockbox_default and stripped the peakmeter, it'd probably qualify
03:24:40webguest20how do i get rid of the peakmeter?
03:25:14Paul_The_Nerdwebguest20: Edit the .wps, though with rockbox_default you'd actually need to create a whole new one. The text for the default one is at the WpsGallery page though, I believe.
03:25:24webguest20i see how it can use some resources
03:26:37webguest20eee how would i go about editing a wps lol
03:28:01Paul_The_NerdAnd the default WPS'es code is here
03:28:16Paul_The_NerdYou should be able to just copy that into a text file named whatever.wps, click on it, and it should set your WPS to that.
03:28:25Paul_The_NerdYou want to delete the %pm line though
03:32:30 Quit xmixahlx ("blah blah blah")
03:32:42webguest20i see
03:32:55webguest20i actually changed it to a more graphical wps....and its not skipping
03:33:01webguest20does that make sense?
03:33:05Paul_The_NerdDid the more graphical one not have a peakmeter?
03:33:17webguest20its the peakmeter thats doing it isnt it
03:33:19Paul_The_NerdYeah, the peakmeter causes it in a lot of cases on the ipod.
03:33:41Paul_The_NerdWell, the iPod is pretty strained during MP3 playback at the moment
03:33:59webguest20whys that?
03:34:20*afruff23 is angry that the X5 can't display as much info as others on the WPS
03:35:02MrStaticVoidhow much do you really need to know about what you are playing?
03:35:20Paul_The_Nerdwebguest20: Because we're only using one of the cores, and the codecs haven't been optimized for ARM, and because a lot of relatively new features are pretty processor intensive
03:35:54afruff23I need to know genre of the next song, title, album, artist
03:35:59afruff23all for the next song
03:36:10afruff23it'll be hard to fit all that and still have the basics
03:36:13webguest03Use a smaller font
03:36:20afruff23then it's hard to read
03:36:27webguest03Them's the breaks
03:36:44afruff23what's a small, readable font?
03:36:49Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Then sell your X5 and get another player
03:37:09afruff23but the X5l has the best battery lfie
03:37:38afruff23does anyone know the mAh for the X5L battery?
03:37:42Paul_The_NerdThen complain ye not about a feature you willingly sacrifices in favour of another one
03:38:03afruff23change what I said earlier from angry to upset
03:38:58MrStaticVoidwell, looking at just the default wps, you can add the genre under the album title
03:39:10MrStaticVoidand then add all the necessary info under the peak meter for the next song
03:39:20MrStaticVoidno need for graphics or anything
03:39:25MrStaticVoidjust plain and simple
03:39:40webguest20the graphical ones are mad nice looking
03:39:43Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: A lot of people use just one line for the next track info, and have it cycle through it
03:39:48webguest20they kill battery life?
03:40:08Paul_The_Nerdwebguest20: Not "kill" but do have an impact I believe
03:40:18afruff23paul, that seems logical but how would one know if it is the album, title , or artist?
03:40:32webguest20whats the avg battery last with rockbox....about 4hrs?
03:40:37MrStaticVoidare you that unfamiliar with what you have?
03:41:09afruff23static, who are you talking to?
03:41:09Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Include the words "Album:" "Artist:" and "Title:" in the cycle?
03:41:16MrStaticVoidyou afruff23
03:41:23afruff23I knwo but that would take up losts of space
03:41:42Paul_The_Nerdwebguest20: It would kinda depend on a lot of things. For example, which of the many many many assorted players you have, and what settings you have enabled.
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03:46:57webguest20well im glad it doesn't skip anymore
03:47:20afruff23at static, I had already considered doing taht, but I keepd ebatign the loss of screen space
03:48:01Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: You can cycle between Artist: %blah, Album: %blah, etc
03:48:32afruff23I know
03:48:33MrStaticVoidwell, i can sympathize, sort of. im more frustrated by the size of the pixels more than the amount of them. but then i remember how cool the x5 is.
03:48:37afruff23that's what you said earlier
03:48:41afruff23and what I was considering
03:48:54Paul_The_NerdYou didn't respond, so I wasn't sure if I was clear enough in how I said it. :)
03:49:12afruff23what player do you use, paul?
03:49:19 Quit webguest20 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
03:49:47Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Iriver H120. Same number of pixels as the X5, but mono. Also a Nano. More pixels, tiny tiny tiny screen
03:50:18sharpewho wants to know what i use?! :D
03:50:24afruff23I've sued a rockboxed nano
03:50:36afruff23is it jsut me or does the scrllwheel soemtiems get screwy
03:50:44afruff23like it goes up isntead of down
03:50:51afruff23for half a second
03:51:29afruff23what you use sharpe? I know you typed it up, so hiit ENTER
03:51:31Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: That was a really old bug.
03:51:50afruff23oh, I used it just 3 weeks ago
03:51:56afruff23or is that really old
03:52:03sharpeactually, i haven't typed it yet
03:52:08sharpeipod video
03:52:15sharpenow i have.
03:52:47Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Odd. It was quite a bit before then, are you sure it wasn't a very out of date build? Of course, if you aren't used to an iPod's wheel, it's very easy to have that happen when you put your finger down, pick it up, or just stop moving.
03:53:15afruff23it didn't hapen all the time
03:53:22afruff23I didn't use a cvs build though
03:53:28afruff23I used daily I believe
03:53:33sharpewere you intoxicated at times of it happening?
03:53:40sharpebecause that may have something to do with it.
03:53:46Paul_The_NerdWell, if it was just accidental from finger placement it wouldn't happen often
03:53:55afruff23maybe I lifted my thumb too late
03:54:01Paul_The_NerdThe bug itself only occurred at the top of the wheel (or maybe it was the bottom. It was where the number went from 95 to 0)
03:54:01sharpeand if you only drank on the weekends...
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03:55:23 Quit nudel ("At Argon, we're working to keep your money.")
03:56:32afruff23did anybody here make a WPS from scratch?
03:56:46sharpei did! but it's not too great if you want looks.
03:57:12afruff23I'm trying to strike a balance between looks and lts of info
03:57:20afruff23but leaning towards mroe info
03:57:43sharpetis what i did
03:58:37 Quit Kohlriba ("Fast alle Menschen sind Regenw├╝rmer")
03:58:37afruff23doses yours require any ptaches?
03:58:58scottderIs there a way to display replaygain info in a wps?
03:59:12afruff23it's in the cutom WPS guide
03:59:37afruff23it was soemwhere though
03:59:43Paul_The_NerdI believe there's a patch
03:59:49sharpehowever i do get made fun of for my background.
04:00:00MrStaticVoidive been having the hardest time getting replaygain to work at all
04:00:29MrStaticVoidi think ive settled on mp3gain just not liking id3v2.4 tags
04:00:35MrStaticVoidbut i have no evidence for it
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04:00:56scottderI use foobar2000 to do my replaygain tagging
04:01:07MrStaticVoidi use whatever works on linux
04:01:23MrStaticVoidin this case mp3gain
04:01:28scottderAhh :)
04:01:39*afruff23 hates it when replaygain are contained in APE tags because fooabr can't read the Id3 tag
04:03:00afruff23what is this?
04:03:01afruff23 Virtual LED (targets w/o physical HDD LED)
04:03:01afruff23Tag Description
04:03:01DBUGEnqueued KICK afruff23
04:03:01afruff23%lh "h" if there is hard disk activity
04:03:01afruff23 Virtual LED (targets w/o physical HDD LED)
04:03:24afruff23in the custom WPS guide
04:03:29MrStaticVoidit shows a little hdd icon to indicate hdd usage
04:03:32MrStaticVoidlike on a computer
04:03:59afruff23What targets don't have the physical LED?
04:04:19afruff23I think jsut the archoses do
04:04:33MrStaticVoidh120 does to, doesnt it?
04:04:34afruff23am Iright?
04:04:48afruff23i wouldn't know
04:05:23Paul_The_NerdThe H120 has a physical LED for the HD
04:05:25scottderNow i wish I had a 5G Ipod :)
04:05:27Paul_The_NerdThe iPods and H300 do not
04:05:45afruff23what do you guys think of a volume meter with the shuffle and repeat status inside of it?
04:09:42scottdersounds neat :)
04:14:01afruff23I did that, but the problem is I don't knwo how nice it's going to look on the different screens
04:14:14afruff23It would probably look best on the X5 since it's pixels are huge
04:15:55Paul_The_NerdI personally see no problem with making wpses for just one screen size, though it'd be nice if the WPS zip was named for clarity
04:16:28afruff23what's the x16 for?
04:17:02sharpeoh, hey paul, did i ever tell you about the progress of the packaged wps idea?
04:17:20afruff23what's that?
04:17:34Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: No, what news?
04:17:45sharpein essence, it works.
04:18:10sharpewith uncompressed zips, and at the moment, one wps per zip.
04:18:18Paul_The_NerdWhich is really how it should be
04:18:28afruff23can you care to explain?
04:18:29sharpethink so?
04:18:40afruff23it autmatically updates your cfg file or something?
04:18:43Paul_The_NerdI think one file / wps is *exactly* how it should be.
04:19:00Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Basically, all the .bmps, the .wps, etc would be in one uncompressed .zip
04:19:09afruff23I thought wpses are already zipped...
04:19:14sharpeso it's easier to handle/distribute
04:19:23sharpenot on the player...
04:19:46afruff23oh, on the palyer
04:19:50Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: The way I see it, the .cfg exists outside the .zip though. The zip is just the .wps and the images it loads.
04:19:52afruff23I thought you meant online
04:21:09afruff23anybody know any free image hosting sites which support PNG files and batch uploading and require no username or password?
04:21:48sharpedo you think it matters if it extracts it to a temporary directory, as i don't see how it'd be possible without doing so, but some people don't like the idea of a temp directory...
04:22:41Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: Hmm... I really don't know. I can see that as being a problem if people fill up their unit, and then switch WPSes, expecting it to work...
04:22:56afruff23ok, does anyone know a site that matches my criteria but requires a username and password?
04:22:56Paul_The_NerdSo, while I wouldn't mind a temp folder, I can see some confusion occurring because of one
04:23:25sharpebut it could also clear the temp directory when different WPSes are chosen
04:24:34Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: Yeah, but the way I see it, you'd have to have a temporary empty file the size of the WPS buffer. Delete it, extract the WPS to the folder, load the WPS. Then, since the WPS is loaded into memory now, clear the folder and rebuild the temp file (is that possible?) That way a user can never use the space reserved for it.
04:25:33sharpethe odd thing is, last time i checked, there were no functions to remove a directory from within a plugin without adding one.
04:26:06sharpecan create, not remove...
04:26:17afruff23will the pink part be transparent
04:26:31afruff23I want to dispaly an image in the middle of it
04:26:40Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Is the pink 255,0,255?
04:26:40afruff23display another*
04:26:44Paul_The_NerdThen yes
04:27:06afruff23what about my secodn question?
04:27:13Paul_The_NerdI personally think we should've chosen 254,0,254 just in case someone really did want that pink, so they wouldn't have to slide the sliders slightly back to get it.
04:27:22sharpeyeah, for directory functions, only : opendir, closedir, readdir, and mkdir...
04:27:28Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: I only see one question...
04:27:40afruff23oh, hehe
04:27:42 Quit maeck ("Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox]")
04:27:51afruff23will I be able to display another iamge on top of the middle part?
04:27:52Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: Odd. How does the context menu delete function work on directories, or can it?
04:28:26Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: You should be able to. I would try to make sure it didn't cover the edge bits (or cut out pink bits of it where they are) so that neither tries to draw on top of the other
04:28:49sharpeoh, it uses a static function in... let me find it...
04:29:00afruff23yea, it wouldn't overla the pink part
04:29:09afruff23I eman
04:29:16afruff23it wouldn't overlap the non-pink part
04:29:31Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Then it should work, yeah
04:29:56afruff23what would the pink part be in the final product, will it jsut allow the backdrop to show a biut
04:30:10afruff23if no image is dispalyed on top of it that is
04:31:01Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Yeah, backdrop
04:31:31afruff23couldn't they have integrated transparency another way
04:31:36afruff23isntead of using aanother color
04:31:57sharpeyeah, it uses a static function in apps/onplay.c "remove_dir" which does it recursively over all the directories and files...
04:32:04Paul_The_NerdIsn't the only other way either mask-images (more disk reads) or alpha layer (32-bit images necessary, plus processing power)
04:32:12Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: Aaah
04:32:43afruff23are you guys PMing each toehr, because sharpe just comes in with random posts
04:33:03Paul_The_NerdNah, he's answering questions I've asked.
04:33:09sharpeline 333...
04:33:17sharpehooray for grep
04:33:29Paul_The_Nerdgrep is your friend
04:33:46afruff23will the following patches be commited to CVS?
04:34:06afruff23font scaling in WPS, album art, eq in WPS
04:34:22sharpeprobably eventually...
04:34:24Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: only time will tell.
04:34:27Paul_The_NerdI suspect the font scaling one won't
04:34:34Paul_The_NerdThe album art almost definitely will though
04:34:44afruff23why not fon scaling?
04:35:16Paul_The_NerdBecause it really doesn't do much, and only works well with one or two fonts.
04:35:27Paul_The_NerdIt's better just to do true multi-font, and prerender proper resized fonts
04:35:35afruff23oh, is it because the fonts are bitmaps
04:35:38afruff23or are they vectors
04:35:55sharpelets make up a vector based rockbox font system
04:36:05Paul_The_NerdYes, because the menus need to be *slower*
04:36:07afruff23that's just what I was going to say
04:36:20Paul_The_NerdAnd WPS drawing needs to take up more CPU time.
04:36:25Paul_The_NerdAnd the whole thing wants to make me cry.
04:36:52afruff23well, is there a multifont patch
04:36:59afruff23or is ti already in the CVS
04:37:00sharpepaul, should the extension be .zip, or should it be some other extension to prevent confusion with .zip files without a wps, if there ever is support for them of course...
04:37:03Paul_The_NerdThere's a patch that lets you have different fonts in WPS and Menus
04:37:10Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: .wzp?
04:37:38Paul_The_NerdIt seems like the extension should be something you can put in viewers.config to allow one-click loading, so definitely not .zip in my opinion
04:37:49Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Nothing in-cvs for multifont yet
04:37:49sharpei'm thinking something similar, but midkay thinks there'd be too much confusion with how to create said packaged wps file...
04:37:49afruff23.WPS already occupies a known extension
04:38:00Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: .wzip?
04:38:29sharpeeh, maybe...
04:38:32afruff23doesn't some word processor already use WPS for it's docs?
04:38:32CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
04:38:32*Paul_The_Nerd shrugs
04:38:37afruff23from corel I think
04:38:46Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: .wpz is fine with me.
04:38:47sharpe'while playing zip'
04:38:56Paul_The_NerdAs long as it's not .wps or .zip, I'm happy with it. :)
04:38:57afruff23oh eya
04:38:59afruff23MS works
04:39:06sharpewhat about you afruff, is .wpz fine with you?
04:39:15afruff23I don't care
04:39:29afruff23jsut don't make it anything other than 3 letters
04:39:37sharpei think my ipod's the only one that *had* support for uncompressed zip files...
04:40:01sharpeas i accidentally deleted the source for the plugin that handled the menu and everything for zip files... in a cygwin accident.
04:40:05afruff23I think winamp already uses it
04:40:11afruff23search google for WPZ file
04:40:48Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: It doesn't matter if some program uses it, as long as it's not used by some other aspect of rockbox.
04:41:11afruff23I knwo, but ti might confuse people with a programassociated with the filetype
04:41:12sharpewho knew ". sf" was a windows system file :\
04:41:25afruff23SeeYou is a planning and analysis tool for glider pilots. It is designed for the desktop and notebook PCs.
04:41:31afruff23that program uses WPZ
04:41:42sharpethat's all i could find.
04:41:55sharpewhat percentage of rockbox users, use "SeeYou" ?
04:42:04afruff23what about WPF?
04:42:08afruff23WP file
04:42:18afruff23the f stands for file obviously
04:42:20sharpewpa, while playing archive...
04:42:40afruff23nvm WPF is in use too
04:42:41Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: There are so many file associations out there, it's almost impossible to avoid one. I think .wpz is safe, the SeeYou people can deal
04:43:16afruff23nothing uses it
04:43:23afruff23so WPF would eb good
04:43:43sharpethe cool thing is, i had redone most of the code for the zip plugin and just applied it to the packaged wps plugin, so it should be easy to go back to the normal zip viewer
04:43:49sharpefrom memory too
04:43:50afruff23actually wordperfect uses it for text files
04:44:09afruff23wouldn't it jsut eb easier to make rockbox read zipped files
04:44:11sharpei like wpz... because it has a 'z' in it...
04:44:30Paul_The_NerdI like wpz too
04:44:42sharpeif someone made a plugin to deal with all the forms of compression, without using 'malloc'
04:44:47Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Easier than saying "We both like WPZ, so that's it?"
04:45:30sharpefrom this moment henceforth, i declare packaged wps files to have the extension ".wpz" muahahah...
04:45:32afruff23I don't knwo how complicated it is to create a new filetype
04:45:35 Quit DBordello (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:45:43afruff23is ti jsut renaming the extension in this case?
04:46:34afruff23does rockbox already handle wpz files
04:46:37sharpepaul, i've an idea, what about a custom made file format, which would just have the basics of file information in the headers, to cut down on the space used in the zip headers...
04:47:21Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: You mean, basically have a tool to append the bitmaps all on the end sequentially, and create a header for parsing the file?
04:47:41sharpemore or less... :)
04:47:58Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: I think the only problem with that is that it makes it difficult for completely lay users to edit it. A zip-compressed one can be unzipped by anyone, and then it's all bitmaps and a text file.
04:48:02sharpeor have like a trimmed down zip format
04:48:27Paul_The_NerdI mean, *I* like the idea, but it needs to be something that anyone can do, on nearly any computer and OS.
04:48:40sharpeyeah, tis the only real problem with it
04:49:29Paul_The_NerdIt clears overhead at the cost of ease of use.
04:49:39Paul_The_NerdOr most specifically, ease of editing someone else's work
04:50:50sharpeso, there should be just one wps per package, ye think?
04:51:09scottderI want to build a theme around this:
04:51:21scottderAlapaca's and Betty White
04:51:22sharpebitmaps in their own folder, or just the root of the zip?
04:51:52Paul_The_NerdOwn folder I suppose.
04:51:54sharpewell, you do that...
04:52:10Paul_The_NerdJust so that if someone extracts a bunch of wpses into the same folder for some silly reason it's not too much of a jumbled mess.
04:52:34Paul_The_NerdSo, WPSName.wps and /WPSName/blah.bmp
04:52:41Paul_The_NerdLike how it works now. :)
04:52:47sharpewhat other features should there be...
04:53:21afruff23include theme(.cfg file)
04:53:25Paul_The_NerdI think that's really about it, in my opinion. I think rwpses should be packaged on their own, since in reality they're just a wps for a lower res and depth screen, so could really be used elsewhere
04:53:35Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: The theme.cfg should absolutely *not* be in the archive.
04:53:49sharpescore! less work for me.
04:53:59afruff23but don't soem WPSes require certain things to look right
04:54:13Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Yeah, but you can click on the theme.cfg which then loads the .wpz
04:54:16afruff23such as fonts
04:54:48Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Meanwhile, if you prefer a different font, or color combination, you can load the .wpz manually and then set the color and font yourself. That's why there are .wps files and configs separate right now
04:55:04Paul_The_NerdAll the .wpz should do is consolidate the information in the .wps, and its bitmaps, into one file
04:55:14Paul_The_NerdIt shouldn't include any functionality from the next level up like themes
04:55:29Paul_The_NerdOtherwise it's a compressed theme, not a compressed wps
04:55:40sharpeand for the plugin to work, it requires at least two additions to the plugin api, and if there are to be the removal of previous wpses, three.
04:55:50sharpewait, add one to each of those
04:56:30sharpei don't like commenting my code much...
04:56:38afruff23so how would a WPS creator submit WPS files? Just rename the .zip?
04:56:44afruff23or is a program needed?
04:56:55sharperenaming should do just fine
04:57:58sharpethink /.rockbox/wpspkg is an okay temp directory, or should it be something more general...
04:58:05Paul_The_NerdThat seems fine
04:58:43Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Well, if they wanted to submit a whole theme, then they'd zip up /themes/mytheme.cfg /backdrops/mybackdrop.bmp /wps/mywps.wpz and submit that.
04:59:04sharpehow many zip entries should there be a max of, i'm thinking... 55...
04:59:25Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: Hm. .wps, and 52bmps for the moment, right?
04:59:42sharpeyeah, and then an entry for the bmp dir...
04:59:53sharpeand maybe one for a credits and whatnot file
05:00:14Paul_The_NerdSo 55 seems reasonable.
05:00:15afruff23what is bmp.dir?
05:00:26Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: The directory where the bitmaps go?
05:00:46afruff23I didn't know fodlers were counted as files
05:01:06sharpein zip files, folders are essentially blank file entries
05:01:18afruff23do you think the 52 image limti will ever be removed?
05:01:28afruff23the only reason it is like that is ebcause of the alphabet
05:01:36sharpenot much point in it...
05:01:53Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: It's possible. The main reason it's like that was because 50 seems like enough, and 52 works well with the alphabet.
05:01:56afruff23You could make a custom progress abr
05:02:11Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: You can already make a custom progress bar.
05:02:24Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: It draws more of the image the further along the pb goes.
05:02:25 Quit tianjing (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:02:26afruff23ok, custom volume
05:02:29afruff23with 40 steps
05:02:45Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Remember, every image you load with a WPS exists in RAM. It decreases space for the audio buffer.
05:03:06sharpethe more images, the more chances of it skipping during audio playblack
05:03:12sharpe... playback
05:03:16afruff23well a small graphic volume wouldn't take up much RAM
05:03:21 Join maeck [0] (
05:04:03Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: if it's small, why would you have 40 steps?
05:04:03afruff23nvm then
05:04:11afruff23the X5 had 40 steps
05:04:15afruff23in the orig FW
05:04:20afruff23and it was pretty small
05:04:30Paul_The_NerdI think we have different definitions of small...
05:04:47afruff23what, the X5's volume bar was big?
05:04:52Paul_The_NerdI haven't seen it
05:05:05Paul_The_NerdBut to me, small is "less than 1/4 of the screen in width" for say, a volume bar.
05:05:13afruff23it is
05:05:17Paul_The_NerdThat's 32 pixels wide
05:05:19afruff23it's like a 6th
05:05:21sharpewhen i think small, i think filesize... :)
05:05:31Paul_The_NerdErr 40 pixel
05:05:37afruff23oh nvm
05:05:45Paul_The_Nerd1/4 is 40 pixels
05:05:50afruff23it's really small though
05:05:52Paul_The_Nerd1/6 is even less. I don't see how you would get 40 steps.
05:05:58Paul_The_NerdAt least not visibly
05:06:09afruff23that's why i said nvm
05:06:13Paul_The_NerdBut remember, the volume bar could be done just like the progress bar
05:06:17Paul_The_NerdShow x% of the image
05:06:21Paul_The_NerdRather than using 40 images
05:06:22afruff23or maybe it only showed every 2 volume steps
05:06:31sharpefrom 40 images to one...
05:06:39sharpesuch a wonderful idea.
05:06:44Paul_The_NerdYeah, I like my idea better too. :-P
05:07:01Paul_The_NerdI mean, most of the code is already there with the progress bar.
05:07:33Paul_The_NerdHeck, it's possible you could reuse it with peakmeters, and maybe even that EQ in WPS thing, and save a *lot* of images people seem to want to use.
05:08:30 Quit sharpe ()
05:08:35 Join sharpe [0] (
05:08:39afruff23well, I need at least 18 images to jsut show just my volume, repeat status, and shuffle status in the WPS I'm kaing
05:08:47sharpereally, really bad timing for my router to die on me.
05:09:03afruff23what router you got?
05:09:16sharpeno idea really
05:09:48afruff23I got mine for $10
05:09:50sharpejust when there is a considerable amount of traffic for an extended period of time over my wifi, it cuts off.
05:09:54afruff23802.11g wireless
05:10:17afruff23never had any problems
05:10:25Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: There's also the combined bitmaps idea
05:10:38afruff23what's that?
05:10:55afruff23show jsut a bt of the bitmap as you go?
05:10:57Paul_The_NerdOne big image that you use parts of basically
05:11:00sharpei can say i'm not responisble for that idea.
05:11:16Paul_The_NerdIt really wouldn't solve any of the RAM issues, but it does make WPSes load a good bit faster
05:11:26Paul_The_NerdReally, if you run out of images for your bitmap, you're using too many
05:12:17afruff23well, as i said i'm already at 7 images for the repeat status and shuffle status
05:12:36afruff23look at this code
05:12:50afruff23sorry I pressed twice
05:13:07afruff23jsut for repeat and shuffle
05:13:14scottderI'll be happy when Nano battery meter works :)
05:13:23scottderNot a HUGE deal but would be nice
05:13:29afruff23that's pseudo code BTW
05:13:36Paul_The_Nerdscottder: Well, it's still pretty inaccurate at the moment
05:13:44afruff23since "off1" doesn't actually display a picture
05:13:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:14:01afruff23does the X5 have anccurate battery meter ATM?
05:14:08afruff23an accurate*
05:14:21Paul_The_NerdWouldn't know, don't have one to check
05:14:27sharpemy friends have relationship... i dunno, issues, one would say?
05:14:35scottderSend me one anbd I'll check :)
05:14:52afruff23social security?
05:14:58afruff23mother's maiden name?
05:15:00sharpefirst born child?
05:15:48afruff23do toher countries use Social security numbers?
05:15:56afruff23besides the US
05:16:26Paul_The_NerdWell, since the whole SSN thing is for US Social Security, technically no.
05:16:37afruff23that' what I thought
05:16:48sharpethey have different number systems
05:16:52sharpeer, for such a thing
05:17:01afruff23but I thought other countries might have given people a barcode or number to identify them
05:17:06sharpestill base ten, and the real number system.
05:17:10afruff23I guess so
05:17:27scottderCan't give you my SS, tattooed on the back of my neck...can't see it without a mirror
05:17:30*Paul_The_Nerd wants an SSN with an imaginary component
05:17:42sharpeand without a second mirror, it's reversed
05:18:13afruff23why don't you take a picture of the back of your head
05:18:16afruff23I'm a barber
05:21:46afruff23can anybody guess the 3 biggest complaints about the X5 pre-rockbox?
05:21:56afruff23the third will shock you
05:21:56Paul_The_NerdNo gapless
05:22:05Paul_The_NerdAnd, umm, X and Y.
05:22:17afruff23no, not really asicn eonly the Rio karma people really wanted it
05:22:25afruff23no ID3 database
05:22:28sharpe"firmware not named 'rockbox' ?"
05:22:34afruff23crappy screen
05:22:40Paul_The_NerdLack of Gapless was a pretty huge complain about the H1x0 and H3x0 and iPods, it seems
05:22:41afruff23and no hebrew support
05:22:49Paul_The_NerdActually the lack of hebrew doesn't surprise me at all
05:22:55afruff23that's because now they have rockbox
05:23:06afruff23why not?
05:23:15afruff23Israel's pretty small
05:23:26Paul_The_NerdI saw how many people were interested in it for the iRivers, as well as when unicode was being worked on
05:23:31afruff23and there's about 0.2% JEwish people in the world
05:23:39sharpehold on.
05:23:46afruff23but doesn't that seem a bit wierd to you
05:24:10sharpethere are approximately 16,600,000 that belong to the jewish faith
05:24:30Paul_The_NerdIt seems a bit odd that there's that much music tagged in Hebrew I suppose
05:24:31sharpe1,256,000,000 for islamic
05:25:18sharpei have a wheel of different religions
05:25:27afruff23how recent?
05:26:07sharpegift, "choose your religion: a guide for the savvy convert"
05:26:23afruff23who gave that to you
05:26:29afruff23or was that a joke?
05:26:36sharpeno, i really have it here
05:26:44sharpegift from my... ex girlfriend?
05:26:45afruff23hwo recent does it say it is
05:27:06Paul_The_NerdIt shouldn't make *that* big of a difference if its a decade old or a year old
05:27:10Paul_The_NerdAt least for percentages
05:27:57afruff23no, this site I'm looking at says that the jewish opulation has grown 0.3%
05:28:08afruff23while the earth's population gre 1.4%
05:28:21afruff23in one year
05:29:46Paul_The_NerdI think the reason that Hebrew support is so wanted is because it's one of the less supported languages.
05:30:05Paul_The_NerdIn terms of DAPs, you can expect to see English, Korean, Japanese, and many many other languages very commonly
05:30:10sharpewhich makes as much sense as supporting uncompressed zips ;)
05:30:34sharpetell me a number, and i'll pick a religion.
05:30:41afruff23but to haev such a demand for it, there needs to be a great number of people demanding it
05:30:50Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Or just very vocal people.
05:31:05Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: I mean, what hard numbers do you have that it's actually the 3rd most wanted feature?
05:31:13afruff23I don't
05:31:22afruff23but I've seens everal posters on
05:31:31afruff23complaining that there is no hebrew support
05:31:54Paul_The_NerdWell, after lack of ID3 and whatever the other one was, I mean, you start running out of things to *really* complain about
05:32:39afruff23one even asked will there be hebrew support tomorrow
05:32:45afruff23as if anybody knew from there
05:32:49 Quit imphasing_ (Client Quit)
05:33:16afruff23there "being"
05:33:21Paul_The_NerdPeople frequently ask questions nobody knows the answer to.
05:33:27 Join imphasing [0] (
05:33:35Paul_The_NerdThis channel had a topic "We do not estimate release dates" and people came in and asked frequently
05:34:41XavierGrsharpe: You really mean that this guide was a present from you ex girlfriend?
05:35:01XavierGrwow! And what was you response on her?
05:35:14sharpewas a christmas gift if i remember correctly
05:35:22sharpei have no idea what i got her
05:35:34afruff23what's the smallest religion on there?
05:35:42XavierGrno,no not what did you got her. I mean what you told her
05:36:10sharpeoh, "thank you"
05:36:31XavierGrwhat's you religion? and what's hers? (if you don't mind)
05:36:32sharpesmallest religion, snake handlers at 5000
05:37:04afruff23where's that?
05:37:19Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: I'm curious, does it have scientology?
05:37:23sharpei'm... if i had to pick a main one, catholicism... i consider myself more agnostic
05:37:27sharpei think so...
05:37:35Paul_The_Nerdafruff23: Actually, part of southern US.
05:37:37sharpeyeah, scientology
05:37:44Paul_The_NerdAmong other places
05:37:55Paul_The_NerdIt's kinda a scattered thing. Handling the serpent to test your faith, etc.
05:38:09GaloisI think "lack of freeness" is a legitimate complaint about the original firmware
05:38:29afruff23wait, are we still talking about religion or the firmware
05:38:38XavierGrsharpe: I am glad that this girl is you EX and not your current girlfriend. (no offense)
05:38:53Paul_The_NerdGalois: I think though that's a top complaint against most firmwares
05:38:54XavierGrI would be very angry if I ever got such present
05:39:10sharpewhy my ex?
05:39:28sharpeheh, i have very... different ideas about religion than most other people.
05:40:12XavierGrI just don't like people who try to give you the light with their religion.
05:40:19Galoisbesides, hebrew is written backwards, isn't that hard to support?
05:40:25XavierGrIMHO all religions are dark, but as I said IMHO
05:40:42sharpeheh... i made fun of jesus. according to christianity, i'm going to hell.
05:40:52sharpealong with similar religions.
05:40:55Paul_The_NerdGalois: Hard, but far from impossible.
05:41:04XavierGracoording to Jesus we are all going to hell! LOL
05:41:17Galoissorry, backwards is not PC, I should say "right to left"
05:41:30sharpewell, if you lump all the contradicting religions together, we're all going to hell anyway.
05:42:21sharpeshe only got me it because of what i think about religions, and how it'd be a funny gift for me
05:43:03XavierGrI bet she was a church person, right?
05:43:03 Quit midkay (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:43:30XavierGrah if it was for fun then I can understand
05:43:53 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
05:47:34sharpewow, wireless extension cords. :)
05:48:09Paul_The_NerdGo to the thinkgeek page and read the warnings though
05:48:18Paul_The_NerdBasically, "don't put *anything* between them. Just in case"
05:48:22Galoisit's on /. too
05:48:24afruff23or is this a joke
05:48:30sharpeWarning: Even though these microwaves are about as harmful as the leakage from an ordinary microwave oven (not much), do not put computers, televisions, other sensitive electrical equipment, food, liquids, paper, glass, flammable substances, magnets, or living things in between the base and satellite units. Just in case.
05:49:06Paul_The_NerdGalois: Yeah, that's where I followed the link to Thinkgeek.
05:49:30Galoisbut the new /. design is ... ugh
05:49:40sharpethink about this.
05:49:44Paul_The_NerdSince the availability is "No suing" I'm tempted to think it's an April Fools thing
05:49:48sharpewhat day is tomorrow?
05:49:53Galoistoday in europe
05:50:04sharpesame concept :)
05:50:28afruff23tomorrow is april fools
05:50:30afruff23in the US
05:50:43afruff23but in other places it already is april fools
05:50:47sharpetoday in europe it is
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05:51:10afruff23I thought only the US celebrated it
05:51:22sharpenah, mayn countries do.
05:51:28*Paul_The_Nerd notes that the units are labelled "ThinkGeek Labs"
05:51:46XavierGrwe celebrate this too. I just told me a friend of mine that I will come along with them to Netherlands
05:51:58XavierGr(he will be quite dissapointed tomorrow)
05:52:03Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: Did thinkgeek always has the M crossed out in "Stuff for smart masses" ?
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05:54:52XavierGrI saw these a couple of hours ago but I din't think that it was fake.
05:54:57sharpe i want.
05:55:02XavierGrThough it seem a little strange
05:55:32maeckon april fools you will NOT find a single 'true' submission to Slashdot.
05:55:42maeckeverything is bogus
05:58:17Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: I want that just as what's in the picture. Just a fake 1-up mushroom in a green pipe planter. All plastic would be best, no dealing with survival
05:58:32sharpeheh, yeah...
05:58:41XavierGryup ultra classic one
05:58:46sharpebut a live one would be interesting.
06:00:42burnhamdyea check out slashdot already
06:02:39afruff23does rockbox do anthign special for april fools?
06:02:58maeckjust submitted video playback to the cvs
06:03:08afruff23that's what I was htinking
06:03:16Paul_The_NerdI think that'd irritate a lot of people
06:03:21 Quit novimon (Remote closed the connection)
06:03:21Paul_The_NerdWhen it turned out false
06:03:36sharpeand i just got the final touches for my patch with zlib ported, so it's all good with the zip handling.
06:03:38 Join Rob2222_ [0] (
06:04:01afruff23put a big discalimer at the top of the page saying some agency sut down rockbox for infringing on patents
06:04:10Paul_The_NerdThat could do it
06:04:11maeckbtw, anyone with trouble building the current cvs?
06:04:12 Quit BHSPitLappy (Success)
06:04:34afruff23but still keep the site the same so people don't get pissed
06:04:40maecksome 30 year old company well known for media players
06:04:52sharpeno, a cease and decist letter from all the companies that rockbox can replace the firmware on.
06:05:21afruff23from apple would be best
06:05:28afruff23sicne they are the most money-hungry
06:05:48Paul_The_NerdI would pick a company that *doesn't* seem likely to ever pick on rockbox
06:05:49maeckand rockbox is really getting ground in their ipod space.
06:05:53Paul_The_NerdY'know, so you don't agitate anyone
06:06:14burnhamdthat wouldnt be believable unless you got ipod linux to do the same
06:06:38Paul_The_NerdOr say that it can't be said who the company is until the legal issues are resolved
06:06:46afruff23since they are the mallest of the companies that have rockboxed players
06:06:53burnhamdif rockbox and ipodlinux went down then it would be good
06:07:07sharpeso who gets to write the letter? :)
06:07:15afruff23but how would we get those guys to do this?
06:07:25burnhamdask them
06:07:35afruff23or does somebody have hacking skills?
06:08:39Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: What sort of build trouble do you have?
06:08:42 Join novimon [0] (
06:09:12maecktagcache.c seems to syntax erro out
06:09:33Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: What target?
06:09:38maeckjust pulled the most recent rockbox-devel from cvs
06:09:47maeck15 - ipod video
06:09:58 Quit afruff23 ("IceChat - Its whips the llama's butt")
06:10:48Paul_The_NerdHm. Can't test that here, don't have the setup necessary for sims at the moment
06:11:00sharpesims don't like me.
06:11:24maeckman that is sad. when video games start disliking you...
06:11:52sharpeyep. ejected itself out of the ps2 when i played it at my friend's place.
06:13:05maecksorry, nevermind ... this is my own bloody fault
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06:17:20afruff23any plans to support variables within WPSes?
06:17:29afruff23user-defined that is
06:17:39Paul_The_NerdWhat exactly for?
06:17:45sharpeyou mean like, with a scripting language for wpses?
06:17:49afruff23so it's easier to display conditional images
06:17:59afruff23for the x and y coordinates
06:18:24afruff23isntead of typing so and so coordinate
06:18:36afruff23you make a variable set to so and so plus x amount
06:18:51Paul_The_NerdThat seems kinda pointless
06:18:52afruff23so you could port it much easier to other targets
06:19:01 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
06:19:04afruff23adn if you ever found a design error it would be easy to fix
06:19:36afruff23so you could set locations of things relative to other things
06:19:53sharpescripting language! yay!
06:19:56Paul_The_NerdWell, when you have viewports you set them relative to the upper left corner of the viewport they're in
06:20:28Paul_The_NerdBut it seems like variables just for relative positioning is saying "Here, let's make the code needlessly more complex and waste space so that designers can be lazy"
06:20:50Paul_The_NerdRemember that the WPS code is essentially the same on all targets, and the Archoses have a very limited maximum size for rockbox
06:21:16Paul_The_NerdSo, for something to be a worthwhile feature, it really has to *add* something
06:21:29sharpelike packaged wpses ;)
06:21:45sharpenot really much though.
06:21:58sharpejust organization and uniformity in distributing wpses
06:22:49XavierGrrockbox has opened up major fronts
06:22:50Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: <−−- Look at the proposed 3.1 features. Then think "Hmm, which one have I just basically implemented?" :-P
06:23:22sharpeexactly :)
06:23:34XavierGreven the H series which is going for realese has many things which have to been corrected added
06:23:54sharpeand in lesser space too, tar uses 512 byte headers
06:24:36burnhamdanyone have an old archos i can have
06:24:47burnhamdeven a broken one
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06:25:38sharpehmm... any other major ideas for the packaged wpses?
06:27:00Paul_The_NerdI think they should be kept fairly simple, really
06:27:27sharpeyeh, tis the plan
06:27:59sharpeso far... 55 max zip entries, one wps per zip... bitmaps in their respective folder...
06:28:49sharpethen i've just got to clean up the code and take out some stored stuff in the headers, so less space is taken up by the 55 entry array
06:29:07Paul_The_NerdFrom my personal perspective, that's exactly what it should be. But then again, I'm one person. :)
06:30:37fiftyfour123add hfs to rockbox
06:31:21Paul_The_NerdIs there even a real benefit to adding another file system support?
06:31:35fiftyfour123yes, i will be able to use rockbox
06:31:49Paul_The_NerdYou *are* able to use rockbox
06:31:55Paul_The_NerdYou choose not to take the steps necessary to do so
06:32:02fiftyfour123without converting to fat32
06:32:13Paul_The_NerdAh, but you didn't specify that.
06:32:15afruff23fat32 is superior anyway
06:32:23sharpeyeah, it's 'fat'
06:32:32sharpewhich is phonetically the same as 'phat'
06:32:33Paul_The_NerdSo again, what's the actual *advantage* to Rockbox of supporting HFS?
06:32:45sharpewhich is essentially the same as 'fucking cool'
06:33:08fiftyfour123it saves me the time
06:33:19Paul_The_NerdI said "the advante TO rockbox"
06:33:23afruff23fiftyfour123, I think you meant HFS+
06:33:49sharpepaul, should i put the crc32 check in, or leave it out?
06:34:09fiftyfour123hfs hfs+ same thing
06:34:15afruff23no they're not
06:34:26Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: How much does it cost?
06:34:35sharpespacewise or timewise?
06:34:55sharpegive me a minute..
06:35:06fiftyfour123ok fine can someone port rockbox to HFS+
06:35:08Paul_The_NerdThere are already some core devs that feel the WPS load takes too long.
06:35:24Paul_The_Nerdfiftyfour123: Or.... you format your single iPod to fat32
06:35:55fiftyfour123i dont have a lot of access to a pc, and if my ipod is fat32 i cant update the firmware from my mac
06:36:09 Join Arrogant [0] (
06:36:16ashridaheh? i thought macs supported fat32
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06:36:40fiftyfour123they do, you can update firmware on a fat32 ipod from a mac tho
06:37:19Paul_The_Nerdfiftyfour123: If you're using Rockbox, there should be little incentive to update your Apple firmware anyway. And updating it requires restoring your iPod by one means or other to Pure Apple first anyway
06:37:21ashridahi assume you don't mean rockbox when you say "firmware", which is why i'm confused :)
06:37:21afruff23so don't use iPo'd stock firmware
06:37:54sharpei really don't see a point in crc32 for the wps loading...
06:38:33Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: then leave 'er out. If someone complains, tell them to implement it themselves
06:38:46sharpeheh, true.
06:39:10sharpehmm... global buffer for doing stuff with, or one for each function
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06:40:15Paul_The_NerdChoices choices
06:41:02Paul_The_Nerdfiftyfour123: HFS+ support doesn't really give *rockbox* anything in the end. Especially since it's aimed as a replacement firmware, so the expectation is that you won't be using the apple FW once you use it. I wouldn't go holding your breath for it.
06:42:04sharpemeanwhile, lets do ext2 support ;)
06:42:28maeckHaving HFS would only make sense to play video in the retail FW and you own an apple
06:43:25 Quit afruff23 ("IceChat - Chillin with the Best of em")
06:43:33maeckitunes for macosx doesnt play nice with FAT32 ipods
06:43:35Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: You can still play video in the Retail with a Fat32. The *only* think you cannot do is update the retail *on* an Apple computer with Fat32
06:43:45maeckthats is what I say
06:43:51sharpehey paul, how about this for an april fools... joke... i submit the patch for the packaged wpses today :)
06:43:55maeckI am not affected, and I do not care
06:44:14Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: I'd say that iTunes on OSX not playing well with Fat32 iPods is apple's problem. That sounds like a bug.
06:44:58maeckNo it is a very deliberate decision on Apple's part. Just like not supporting WMA...
06:45:36maeckAn fat32 ipod will not hook into osx itunes
06:45:47 Quit paugh ("reaky werid")
06:46:09maeckand vice versa
06:46:19sharpeheheh... i love my thing for calculating the block size out of a number of bytes...
06:46:26Paul_The_NerdWell, windows doesn't play well with HFS+ in general, does it?
06:46:36maecktrue, very true
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06:46:43maeckhow about linux? never tried
06:47:00Paul_The_NerdLinux can I believe.
06:47:42maeckbut then again, from an Apple point of view. They could support hfs from itunes in windows. They just wont.
06:47:56sharpeit's discrimination!
06:48:47Paul_The_NerdI guess "w/e" means "whatever" or something like that?
06:49:17sharpeyeah, that's exactly it, 'something like that' :)
06:49:35Paul_The_NerdI wouldn't know. I tend to use words.
06:49:46sharpeyeah, me too...
06:49:58Paul_The_NerdHe was such a jolly fellow
06:50:37maeckit is kinda funny how people behave on this... they jump in, bitch about x, then w/e and leave. weird
06:51:33amiconngood morning :)
06:51:58Paul_The_NerdGood evenin' Amiconn. :)
06:52:23maeckdid you hear, Apple is trying to shut down rockbox
06:52:33ashridahi think rockbox needs an X11 server implementation. and a usb-network driver.
06:52:36ashridahit's unusuable without it
06:52:50ashridahi'll never recomment rockbox to anyone until that happens :)
06:52:55ashridahrecommend even
06:55:24RoC_MMI want rockbox to make my iPod have a ethernet port so I can use it as a network attached storage device.
06:55:43Arroganti want rockbox to make my ipod grow wings so that it can fly me to work
06:55:45maeckooh, and run apache
06:55:54RoC_MMI want this now!
06:55:57RoC_MMI want a pony!
06:55:58Arrogantthat would be neat
06:56:59sharpeand i want to be happy and not lonely, but you don't see me implementing the feature into rockbox.
07:00:38amiconnBe careful about april fool's jokes
07:01:06amiconnSome long-time rockboxers may even remember doom on rockbox being an april fool's joke
07:01:12amiconnNow it's a reality...
07:01:25 Join Ricky28269 [0] (
07:01:55Ricky28269The requested URL /daily/ipodvideo/ was not found o
07:02:03Ricky28269*n this server.
07:02:20Ricky28269someone please look into that? why is the latest build missing?
07:02:43sharpetried the cvs build?
07:03:01maeckthis is usually the issue around this hour
07:03:01Ricky28269no, only the daily build
07:03:05Ricky28269i'll look into it
07:03:34Ricky28269also how do i go about updating rockbox on my ipod 5g?
07:03:49sharpeextract the zip to the root of your ipod
07:03:55maeckjust dump the .rockbox folder and the rockbox.ipod files on it
07:03:58sharpeand overwrite all the files
07:04:08Ricky28269k, cool
07:04:10sharpein said directories contained in zip
07:04:32sharpei should really put that check in there to prevent mishaps with compressed zips.
07:04:45sharpeerm, me talking to myself.
07:05:07Ricky28269i'm glad this is so easy :) yesterday i was considering trying to get ipodlinux to work on my 5g, and i'm sure that would have been a nightmare, but then i found rockbox and it installed so easy, and comes with all this cool stuff :)
07:06:09Paul_The_NerdRockbox and IpodLinux are vastly different in what they offer anyway
07:06:37 Join saratoga [0] (
07:06:43Ricky28269iPodLinux sounds awesome, i'm going to definitely get it when it supports 5g ipods, but for now rockbox is good
07:06:54 Quit saratoga (Client Quit)
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07:07:36RoC_MMiPodLinux does have a Windows installer now
07:07:36saratogamy fat32 ipod works on iTunes-Mac
07:07:55saratogaapple says they'll work, but doesn't support it if you have problems
07:08:07saratogawhich makes sense, its not like iTunes understands what a file system is anyway
07:08:09maeckItunes recogizes it?
07:08:25saratogayeah, my roommate uses his mac to put crap on it
07:09:24Ricky28269RoC_MM: i know, but iPodLinux still doesn't support 5g iPods
07:09:48 Quit Moos ("Glory to Rockbox !!!")
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07:10:10amiconn'Unsupported' in the ipl sense doesn't mean that it doesn't work
07:10:34amiconnIt just means that they don't deem it stable enough to support you if there are problems
07:11:20amiconnThat said, I tried ipl on my mini 2g ('unsupported' as well) and it worked exactly once, after the first reboot
07:11:22Ricky28269i don't much like apple
07:11:38amiconnFurther reboots just hung.
07:11:39Ricky28269apple tries to keep everything way too simple, they dumb things down too much
07:11:49Ricky28269like the ipods - those things need more buttons
07:12:02amiconnAfter 5 hours of hacking, I got rockbox running on it :)
07:12:13Ricky28269i got the ipod only because of its popularity, because better popularity = more user support and contributions
07:13:09Paul_The_NerdI picked the iPod Nano because I knew it would have sound fairly soon after I got it.
07:13:15sharpethink a 1/4th second pause to tell of a unsupported compression method is enough? as it'd be displayed for every other file...
07:13:38midkay_XavierGr, i am now..
07:13:45Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: Doesn't bother *me*
07:13:54sharpeanyone else?
07:13:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:14:05Ricky28269idk what that is supposed to mean :)
07:14:16sharpewell, at most it'd pause for 14 seconds :)
07:14:17*scottder wants a 20gb flash player dangit :)
07:14:44Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: Well, 14 seconds is quite long...
07:15:02sharpeyeah, but that'd be for all 55 entries
07:15:24midkay_what's up?
07:15:46Paul_The_Nerdscottder: Archos Jukeboxes use 2.5" drives, right?
07:15:48sharpejust a fail if any file has compression... sound good?
07:16:09Paul_The_NerdYeah, and a splash that says "Compressed Files Not Supported" or something
07:16:42sharpetis kind of a given :)
07:16:52Paul_The_NerdYou *never* can tell. :-P
07:17:11maeckjust say bad WPS
07:17:17maeckor broken
07:17:40sharpe"h4h4h4h!!!!1!! j00z c4nt us3 c0mpr355ion!!"
07:17:46Paul_The_NerdHow 'bout "What part of UNcompressed did you not get?"
07:18:25Ricky28269or a windows-like error: "Error 98729387987: Lack of support."
07:18:39sharpepaul, that sounds good :D
07:18:50 Quit imphasing (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:19:26amiconnc'mon, MacOS error messages (pre-PPC versions) are even more cryptic than windows
07:19:35sharpejust binary.
07:19:41midkay_what about after one warning, format their entire drive?
07:19:44Ricky28269i don't have much experience with mac
07:20:21midkay_"This is your only warning. Do NOT try to use a compressed file again." -> "Alright, you blew it. Stand by while I delete all your stuff..." :)
07:22:28Ricky28269heh, i have some songs with japanese artists, and the characters are shown as boxes, except the box outlines are dotted....
07:22:39Ricky28269that's an interesting twist to the usual solid-black boxes
07:22:50Paul_The_NerdSome fonts have that instead
07:23:05Ricky28269i was surprised to find that apple's firmware actually displayed the characters lol
07:23:54Paul_The_NerdWell, Japan was a major target for the iPod
07:24:24Ricky28269rockbox (ipod) needs support for cradles that handle playback and track skipping and things like that...
07:24:57Paul_The_NerdI don't think anyone *has* one of those
07:25:14Ricky28269lol, im sure plenty of people do
07:25:25Paul_The_NerdI meant "anyone doing development work"
07:25:33Ricky28269well, most of those people probably dont have rockbox... yeah.......
07:26:09Ricky28269but that would be awesome. one of the devs should give me some sort of debug program thing to run and capture the input, and then design cradle support based on that :)
07:26:28sharpeoh, i'm in a better mood.
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07:27:19Ricky28269i've always wondered... what "services" does that message mean, when it says "Nick collision from services."
07:27:56sharpetwo people, both named 'nick,' were in a head on collision with each other.
07:28:05Paul_The_NerdIt means that midkay told nickserv "Hey, I'm back. Kick of midkay so that I can change to that nick, because it's not really me any more"
07:28:20Ricky28269well yea i kno how it works, the ghost command and all that...
07:28:31Ricky28269but how is it a service when your irc client closes unexpectedly? lol
07:28:48Paul_The_NerdThe service is Nickserv kicking your ghost.
07:28:53Paul_The_NerdNot the crash that caused the ghost
07:28:54Ricky28269i consider it more of an annoyance than a service, when windows randomly decides "hey, no talking right now!" and performs an "illegal operation"
07:28:54 Quit Arrogant ("Leaving")
07:33:39Ricky28269well im off to catch some Zs. goodnite everyone :)
07:34:03 Part Ricky28269 (""TTFN, Ta-Ta For Now! (hoo-hoo-hoo-hoo)"")
07:34:29sharpei think i've consumed the reccomended dosage of advil for 24 hours... in about eight?
07:35:19Paul_The_NerdAdvil doesnt work particularly well for me
07:35:44sharpei ususally need two for it to work
07:38:30sharpehmmm... checking if ".wps" exists in a string...
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07:52:29sharpei think i just made something that originally take up ~30 lines, down to just a few... with more readability...
07:54:08midkaynot nearly as good as some of my clock.c optimizations last commit!
07:54:25midkaybinary code from ~100 lines to like 20... menu code from almost 400 to like 250, iirc..
07:54:30sharpeyeah, but does your clock work with zips? ;)
07:54:35midkayhey. fu.
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07:58:25sharpeyeah, about 30 lines to 10, with a check for if there is actually a ".wps" file...
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08:01:14sharpeheh, it has 3 loops that loop around the index of entries, to check for various things
08:01:25sharpeactually two that check
08:05:01 Quit maeck ("Chatzilla 0.9.65 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20060202]")
08:05:06sharpenow it's down to one...
08:05:23midkaynice :)
08:12:53sharpewoohoo, time to see how many errors i can get.
08:23:56sharpei listen to whole albums and i don't realize it.
08:25:38sharpescore! no errors or warning...
08:25:39midkaysharpe, what's up?
08:25:41sharpetime to watch it fail.
08:25:42midkaycool :)
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08:41:28sharpeahah, works.
08:41:43XavierGrwhat works?
08:42:05sharpepackaged wps plugin i be working on
08:42:07midkaysharpe, so what's the overall status? :)
08:42:36sharpeseems to be stable
08:42:46midkaywhat works + how, i mean?
08:42:59sharpejust got to add the function to remove previous temp folder...
08:43:38sharpewell, correctly extracts and identifies if there is any compression or absence of wps file, and fails gracefully.
08:44:19sharpealso made some string functions on the way
08:44:58midkaycan you view zips without extracting?
08:45:09sharpethat's saved for another plugin
08:45:17midkaywhat plugin is this then? :)
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08:45:27sharpethis is the plugin for specifically packaged wpses :)
08:46:04sharpeand the extension is going to be .wpz, just a renamed zip to avoid confusion with zip files
08:46:13sharpeand there is only one wps per zip
08:46:54midkaygood luck getting it accepted with .wpz, i think..
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08:47:27sharpeeh, paul and a few others like the alternate extension
08:47:32midkaythey didn't even like the idea of my .rbp or whatever it was some years ago for "rockbox preset" - sound settings saved from the menu.. even if it was generated by rockbox itself..
08:47:47midkaythey don't like new extensions, and i see why..
08:48:09Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: But wouldn't that just be a .cfg that only had select lines included?
08:48:11midkaye.g. windows has "show file extensions" off by default - so i can see a lot of questions coming up about how to make rbz files..
08:48:15midkayPaul_The_Nerd, right.
08:48:29sharpeit'd be the same process with making .wps files
08:48:51Paul_The_NerdYeah, a .wps is already a .txt with a different extension.
08:48:54*Paul_The_Nerd shrugs.
08:48:59midkayyou can save a file from notepad as .wps - but how can you rename an _existing_ .zip to .rbz?
08:49:18Paul_The_NerdAh, windows and its extension hiding in that aspect. Gotcha
08:49:24midkayyes, you can disable it..
08:49:32midkaybut i don't think they'll enjoy the questions..
08:49:49Paul_The_NerdWell, I suggested .wpz so that a zip handling plugin later, if one happens, has no conflicts.
08:50:01midkaywhat's the big deal with .zip?
08:50:01sharpewell, with 7zip you can select the file name... if i remember, with winzip... and with winrar...
08:50:04Paul_The_NerdWell, I suggested something similar. .wpz was sharpe's alternative
08:50:28midkaywpz is cool with me. but i don't know how cool it will be with others, i don't think "very"..
08:51:29sharpecompressed error: "What part of *uncompressed* is confusing?"
08:51:31Paul_The_NerdWell, if they prefer .zip I doubt it'll be deal breaker of any sort.
08:51:45sharpeand the extension isn't set in the plugin anyway.
08:51:50midkaysharpe, funny but corny :)
08:52:01midkayPaul_The_Nerd, i'm just wondering why not zip from the start..
08:52:27midkayyou already scan the file for a WPS - what's the difference in erroring out if there isn't one, or viewing the zip like normal if there isn't one?
08:52:33sharpetechnically it is a zip...
08:52:41midkayyes, but i'm talking about extensions.
08:53:06sharpei redid that code into the one loop that looks... professionalisher
08:53:26midkayso.. instead of splashing the error string, browse_zip().
08:53:50sharpeyeah, but you never get to degrade the users if you just show the zip contents.
08:53:53midkaythere's your zip viewer and wps loader in one package with a universal well-known format.
08:54:11midkaysharpe, degrade_users() and then browse_zip() :)
08:55:35sharpei should set the font...
08:56:09midkayi guess no further discussion means you're sticking with "wpz" - again, good luck.
08:57:11sharpeshould i have it automatically clear out previous entries from the temp directory?
08:57:23midkayof course.. :)
08:57:39Paul_The_NerdTemp directories do not deserve to live!
08:57:52sharpewell, it's the /wpspkg/ directory...
08:57:56*amiconn hates stoopid mistakes :/
08:58:50amiconnI accidentally wrote 22 < 5 instead of 22 << 5, and wondered why it didn't work...
08:59:00sharpewhee, time to do the recursive file/directory removal function.
08:59:29*amiconn is making progress towards display flip for greyscale iPods :)
08:59:32sharpemaybe you just wanted to be sure five wasn't greater than 22, so you doubled up.
08:59:49Paul_The_NerdYou gotta watch that 22. It's sneaky.
09:00:21midkaysharpe, rockbox has a recursive file/dir removal function..
09:00:22*amiconn will soon need a tester with an iPod 4G greyscale
09:00:42sharpeyes, but i have problems with trying to include it in the plugin api
09:00:58midkayjust like you did with wps_data_load.. sigh. :)
09:01:06sharpei don't think so :)
09:01:10amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: The 22 is correct. It's the difference between the maximum number of lines the LCD controller can handle (132) and the number of lines of the mini LCD (110)
09:01:18midkaysharpe, face it - you suck. ;)
09:01:52Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Ah. So they're 110 by what again?
09:02:15amiconnThe controller can handle 168x132
09:02:33amiconn..and the standard !g..4g have 160x128
09:02:37amiconn(same controller)
09:03:20Paul_The_NerdThat's convenient at least.
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09:12:19sharpetime to see if the function works...
09:12:39Sugardadsup guys
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09:17:54Sugardadis the video feature gonna be implemented any time for iaudio x5 in rockbox?
09:18:35Paul_The_NerdSugardad: Rockbox is primarily geared toward audio playback, so there's not a real focus on video. Unless someone comes around and does it, it doesn't seem like it'll happen soon.
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09:20:10Sugardadbut the ipod video n nano are able to play videos
09:20:21sharpeonly in the apple firmware
09:20:36Paul_The_NerdYeah, neither of them play video in Rockbox
09:20:49amiconnThe iriver H300 can also play video with the original firmware
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09:21:15amiconn..but not in rockbox either
09:21:21Sugardadoh...its ipodlinux that ables the nano to play video eh?
09:21:24midkaySugardad, nano can't play video in the apple firmware..
09:21:38Paul_The_NerdSugardad: Yeah, iPodLinux allows *very* limited video playback
09:21:54amiconnRockbox can play video on the old archos recorders and ondios. That's an uncompressed format though, using special tricks at
09:22:13sharpewe have packageability! :)
09:22:21amiconns/at/and the fact that the screen resolution is small, so uncompressed makes sense/
09:22:35midkaysharpe, woohoo..
09:22:59Sugardadanyone use the x5 here?
09:23:20amiconnFor any of the colour targets, we would need a video codec, which would require heavy optimisation to get decent playback framerates
09:23:43amiconnNo one took that challenge so far
09:24:22Sugardadany good video software to get great quality video on my x5 other than virtualdubmod
09:24:38Paul_The_NerdSugardad: You might want to ask at iaudiophile.
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10:04:13midkaygoooood daaaaaaaaaaaa...ngit..
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10:16:51Sugardadanyone can tell me whether doom works on the x5/
10:17:22midkayno, only iriver h300 at the moment.
10:17:27Paul_The_NerdSugardad: I don't believe it does yet. It's in CVS, so if it's not in your browse plugins, it doesn't work.
10:17:43midkayPaul_The_Nerd, well, it's in my ipod's browse plugins yet doesn't work..
10:17:45midkayshould be changed.
10:17:50Sugardadit does have a doom.rock in the plugins
10:17:58Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Yeah, but it *used* to work for iPod. :-P
10:18:07midkayseems to compile for all (color?) targets.. even though it only works on one.
10:18:19midkayPaul_The_Nerd, as true as that is, it *doesn't* work for iPod. :)
10:18:22Paul_The_NerdSugardad: Well, if you can try it, and it doesn't work, why were you asking?
10:18:40Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: I had just assumed that it wasn't in the list for him, since he was asking here rather than trying it himself.
10:19:00midkayPaul_The_Nerd, gotcha
10:19:16Sugardadi wan to try it but dun have the wad files
10:19:27Paul_The_NerdSugardad: The shareware .wad is pretty readily available.
10:19:36midkaySugardad, it simply doesn't work. if you want to try, feel free, though..
10:19:53Sugardadoh k
10:19:57Sugardadthx anyway
10:20:01safetydanthe freedoom wad works well if you want a legal way of getting a full wad
10:20:26Sugardadi did try out works well
10:20:28Paul_The_Nerdsafetydan: Aye, I'm quite a fan of it.
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10:21:49Sugardadany idea how to design my own skin for the navigation menu system n file browsing
10:22:01safetydanSugardad, currently those parts aren't themeable
10:22:09safetydanyou can set a backdrop image though
10:22:10Paul_The_NerdSugardad: Edit the source code.
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10:23:20Sugardadhw u set a backdrop image?
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10:24:36Paul_The_NerdSugardad: Long-click on an image that's exactly the same width and height as your screen, and choose "Set as backdrop." It must be a 24-bit bitmap
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10:28:11midkayPaul_The_Nerd, are you familiar with draw modes?
10:28:32Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Not in the slightest. :) Why?
10:28:42midkayso extremely confusing. :)
10:28:58midkaycan't figure out how to invert things really..
10:29:07midkayCOMPLEMENT is supposed to invert, but it doesn't quite invert..
10:29:14Paul_The_NerdDoesn't quite?
10:29:24midkayit draws, like.. a brownish foreground instead of the set background color, which for me is black.
10:29:49Paul_The_NerdOh, because it doesn't swap FG and BG, it uses the complements of their colors, right?
10:29:55midkayamiconn, on color targets..
10:30:05amiconnCOMPLEMENT inverts all pixel values
10:30:28midkayDRMODE_COMPLEMENT .. it basically works, but "foreground" doesn't become "background"..
10:30:32Paul_The_NerdThe selection bar used to look really nice when it did COMPLEMENT (in my opinion)
10:30:32midkayit becomes.. dark brown. :)
10:30:33amiconnIf you draw with COMPLEMENT on the default rockbox-blue background, you'll get brown
10:30:57midkayamiconn, ah - how can i just invert...
10:31:05midkayis there a way?
10:31:08amiconnmidkay: No, as I said, COMPLEMENT doesn't swap foreground & background, it COMPLEMENTS
10:31:21midkayamiconn, i get that - so you can't actually invert?
10:31:24amiconn(one's complement of the pixel values)
10:31:45Mikachu~value ?
10:31:46amiconnDepends on what you're going to do
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10:32:16midkayamiconn, just like invertrect used to work.. bg -> fg; fg -> bg... and do that for a rectangle.
10:32:23amiconnINVERSEVID switches foreground & background
10:33:00amiconnOn b&w targets you'll get the invertrect behaviour with DRMODE_SOLID|DRMODE_INVERSEVID
10:33:09midkaywhat about color?
10:33:13*tvelocity np Gabriel Le Mar - Ta2ed (Liquid Dubmix)
10:33:34amiconnI mean, On b&w targets you'll get the invertrect behaviour with DRMODE_COMPLEMENT
10:33:47midkayah, right, that makes sense, sure..
10:33:54SugardadPaul_The_Nerd.. i save my bitmap under the rockbox/backdrop eh
10:34:06amiconnThat complements all pixels, which is *visually* equal to switching foreground and background
10:34:11Paul_The_NerdSugardad: If you want it to save, yes.
10:34:15Mikachuyou have to have it there if you want it to be remembered across boots
10:34:44midkayamiconn, right - but it doesn't on color targets iiuc.. so how is switching the fg/bg for a rectangle done?
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10:35:58midkaywelcome back
10:36:12amiconnOn colour targets, it's *not possible* to get the same visual behaviour (swapping foreground & background) just with one drawing operation
10:36:38amiconn...because once the pixels are drawn, there is no memory that tells whether the pixel is foreground or background
10:36:49amiconnIt just has a colour, which can be complemented
10:37:10midkayi guess i need to set FG as BG and BG as FG, and then complement those?
10:37:15midkayor. wait..
10:37:35midkayargh. i'm confused. :)
10:37:47Mikachushould your drawing operation care about what's already drawn?
10:37:57amiconnSo if you want to invert foreground & background, you need to swap the FG and BG values, then redraw all the things you want to invert
10:38:03midkaymine? yes..
10:38:15midkayamiconn, i only want to do the invert to a rectangle..
10:38:51amiconnYou *cannot* just invert a rectangle with arbitrary graphics in it on a colour or greyscale target
10:39:16amiconnYou need to switch foreground & background, then redraw anything inside the rectangle
10:39:38Sugardadi cant get my bitmap to be the backdrop of my menus
10:40:00Paul_The_NerdSugardad: It's 160x128 pixels, and 24-bit?
10:40:03midkayamiconn, update_rect?
10:40:13midkaySugardad, you may need to reboot..
10:40:28Paul_The_NerdIs it giving an error message?
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10:40:41Sugardadstarted rockbox n got some playlist error msg n went back to the menu
10:40:49amiconnmidkay: No, actually *redraw* the stuff within the rectangle
10:41:03Paul_The_NerdSugardad: I meant is it giving messages when you try to set it as backdrop
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10:41:39midkayso.. draw everything, swap FG and BG, then redraw everything that goes into that rectangle and then updaterect it?
10:42:18amiconnThe only cases where COMPLEMENT looks like you want it is when foreground and background colour are the complement of each other
10:42:36amiconn(e.g. black on white)
10:43:24Sugardadgt it
10:43:30amiconnmidkay: Yes, but take care not to draw outside the rectangle. lcd_update_rect() may update a bit more than the exact rectangle you tell it to update
10:43:37Sugardadi had to show all files n then i could go under backdrop
10:46:19amiconnIn fact it would be possible to write a function that just replaces some colours in a rectangular area. If it would replace fg with bg and bg with fg it would to what you want. But it would be very slow.
10:46:46amiconnReading each pixel, checking it for 2 special values, replace them if found, and write back...
10:47:27midkayamiconn, yeah... unfortunate. thanks for the assistance, though. :)
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10:50:06webmindnow news on april 1?
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10:55:31midkaytucoz, you're Mr. Manual, right? :)
10:56:00tucozwell, I do work on the manual yes :)
10:56:33bluebrother^hi tucoz
10:56:45midkayyep - i was wondering why you changed the model names to Ipod and Iriver when iPod and iriver are the correct cases.
10:57:18tucozmidkay, that was discussed some time ago and we wanted to use the english language rules for names
10:57:32midkayenglish language rules? ew..
10:58:02midkayabsolutely ugly and quite incorrect, but.. whatever, i guess.. even though pretty much every page on the entire site refers to them as iPod and iriver, if not ipod or iRiver..
10:58:20tucozI know. Thats why we wanted to be consistant
10:58:32bluebrother^maybe we should write a short section in the manual explaining this.
10:58:41bluebrother^like "about this manual" or so.
10:58:50tucozsure, that sounds good
10:59:09midkaytucoz, what? consistent? how is Ipod and Iriver consistent with every other page on the site?
10:59:34Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: It sets a rule to follow in the future.
11:00:06tucozmidkay, iriver for instance changed their name to make their logo look better. We can not stick to their graphic designers need to make their logo look pretty
11:00:20midkayPaul_The_Nerd, why? apple calls it iPod as does everyone else.. iriver calls it iriver. our entire site calls it iPod and iriver.. why are we changing to something uglier, wrong and inconsistent?
11:00:22tucozwill it be iRiVER next time?
11:00:48midkaytucoz, i don't think they change weekly or anything..
11:00:56tucozwould you call iriver, iRiver, iPod, ipod consistent?
11:00:57Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Because we're using them as words instead of logos. If it's a proper noun, you capitalize the first letter.
11:01:18midkaywhy is it proper? it's an mp3 player..
11:01:48tucozin the manual, it will be something like. 'don't throw your Ipod against a wall'
11:01:51midkaytucoz, more consistent than adding yet another (case system), yes..
11:02:06Paul_The_NerdBecause Iriver is a corporation, and Apple itself uses Ipod as a proper noun, never referring to it as "The iPod" but simply as "iPod"
11:02:22tucozand rockbox, should it be ROCKbox (as the logo), rockbox or Rockbox?
11:02:38midkayPaul_The_Nerd, they have slipped up in a few places by referring to it as "Your iPod" and stuff like that, but they're just being stupid.. ;)
11:02:49midkaytucoz, whichever you want.. Rockbox seems to be most common.
11:03:14Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Anyway, it's not my rule. I sat out most of the "How should we capitalize" debate.
11:03:28midkayjust because the logo says ROCKbox doesn't mean everything else does or needs to. our entire site, apple's site, everything, says iPod, not Ipod.
11:04:00tucozmidkay, it's not really that important. If we on a later state find out that iPod is the proper thing to use, then we simply change the platform file
11:04:00Galoistrying to establish Ipod capitalization is more futile than hackers trying to redefine the word hacker
11:04:22midkaytucoz, how would that be found out? just check
11:04:23Mikachuyou mean stopping the media from redefining it?
11:04:56tucozmidkay, sure. I just say it's not that big of an issue at this stage. I just changed the naming for all the current targets
11:05:00midkayNow iPod plays video, changing the way you experience your music and more. Again. In lighter, thinner 30GB and 60GB models starting at $299, the new iPod is music to your eyes.
11:05:04midkayfrom apple's site..
11:05:14tucozis it apple, or Apple?
11:05:28Galoisit's not aPple, that's for sure
11:05:32midkayGalois, haha.
11:06:37tucozand should we write iPod(tm) at each occurance of the word in the manual as well?
11:06:53midkaytucoz, why?
11:07:12midkaynot even apple's site does that.
11:08:08tucozI don't want it like that. Just to point out that iPod is a trademark. Anyway, it is a macro that changes the name. If we decide later on that iPod should be used, then fine. It's an easy change
11:08:16Galois[Aa][Pp]ple is going to lose the (tm) status just as surely as Xerox and Kleenex and aspirin
11:08:38midkaytucoz, i understand - i'm just curious why the debate came out that way..
11:08:40tucozthe manual is in draft-mode at the moment
11:08:46Paul_The_NerdMan, I hate how many people say to me "Is that your iPod?" to my iriver.
11:09:00Mikachujust punch them in the face
11:09:09Paul_The_NerdIt is teeeeeeeeeeempting.
11:09:28midkaytucoz, i noticed..
11:09:29tucozmidkay, in my case, it's irivers fault. I never knew what the proper thing to write was.
11:09:42midkaytucoz, i thought some debate decided on Iriver, not you..?
11:09:54bluebrother^I can use \warn in tables, but only in the 1st column ...
11:10:25 Quit safetydan ("Leaving")
11:10:43tucozmidkay, I agreed with preglow and others on Iriver
11:10:59tucozas iRiver isn't used anymore
11:11:29midkaynow it's iriver, yes.
11:11:56midkayjust after i went through a bunch of wiki pages correcting the case of "iRiver" to "iriver", no less..
11:11:58tucozand by looking at the old logo, it was iRiveR
11:12:30Galoiswell you said above these kinds of changes were really easy to make just by changing a macro, so I don't see why it has to be fixed in stone as Iriver
11:12:53tucozGalois, for now it's Iriver
11:13:02tucozas it is a name
11:13:28tucozand their logo is written iriver
11:13:44midkaytucoz, iriver used to call themselves iRiver. now they refer to themselves as iriver.
11:13:47tucoznothing is set in stone
11:14:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:14:55tucozIf you want some other spelling than what we use for now, please add your thoughts to the talks page
11:15:03Galoismy thoughts are that whoever started the initial i trend should be shot
11:15:16*Paul_The_Nerd points at the iMac
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11:21:47tucozbluebrother^, what happens if you use \warn in other columns than the 1st?
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11:22:12bluebrother^latex fails badly :(
11:22:33bluebrother^I managed to modify \warn to be useable inside of tables.
11:22:49bluebrother^in floating text it behaves as a new paragraph.
11:23:06bluebrother^while in item lists and tables it only modifies the text given.
11:23:34bluebrother^also it seems to be impossible (as far as the way I tried) to generate side icons from within tables.
11:24:07tucozmaybe we need to change the tabularx .sty file for that
11:24:11bluebrother^I think \warn and \note shouldn't be used inside tables, but who knows ...
11:24:36bluebrother^the problem is that in tables latex isn't in paragraph mode anymore.
11:24:45midkaytucoz, btw, i looked at the manual the other day for the first time.. very cool. i know you do a major amount of work on it, so nice job, don't get me wrong - i just disagree about the case choice. :)
11:24:46bluebrother^and \marginpar does rely on this.
11:26:14tucozmidkay, thanks.
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11:27:19midkayconsidering learning a bit about latex and contributing..
11:27:49midkayand of course when you're not paying attention, sneak in a commit pertaining to case changes for model names >:D
11:27:51tucozcool, that would help
11:28:14tucozYou can do it today, like a aprils fools day joke
11:28:20paulheuI have a question on C (setting variables) anyone got a sec?
11:29:16midkaytucoz, haha. yeah.. it would seem like a joke, but it wouldn't be. :)
11:29:28midkaypaulheu, feel free to ask.. i may be able to help if noone else..
11:29:29paulheuwould also be good if you know plugin.c
11:29:57paulheuI am working on setting the backlight on when a plugin runs.. and restore afterwards
11:30:14paulheuwould this work to set it back both locally and global settin:
11:30:15paulheu backlight_set_timeout(global_settings.backlight_timeout = bls);
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11:30:32midkaywell, you don't want to change the global setting..
11:30:44midkayyou want to set it to simply on, and then restore the global setting when you leave..
11:30:56paulheuAh.. right duh..
11:31:04paulheusee it helps to talk about things.. :)
11:31:11midkayagreed :)
11:31:14Mikachui don't think the backlight should be enabled juts because you're in a plugin though
11:31:24midkayan option, perhaps..
11:31:31midkayi disagree with xobox's forcing of backlight on..
11:31:56paulheuso just do backlight_set_timeout (1); to turn on and backlight_set_timeout(global_settings.backlight_timeout); to restore..
11:32:10midkayseems correct, yeah.
11:32:12Mikachumidkay: his other games do too
11:32:17paulheuah.. cool
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11:32:40tucozA backlight option from within a plugin menu would be nice
11:32:55midkayMikachu, i don't like it..
11:33:14midkayif a plugin touches the backlight setting, it should really be based on a user's choice..
11:33:21paulheuI was planning on putting it in the general/display/LCD options actually..
11:33:26JdGordonhey all
11:33:31amiconnAnyone with a 4G grayscale around?
11:33:40midkayhey JdGordon
11:33:48midkaypaulheu, that sounds right..
11:33:54paulheuI agree it has tobe optional, I am just fiddling with it.. and this is a first of actually changing code so there..
11:34:17midkaycool. :)
11:34:55midkayamiconn, you know about settings - adding a new one will reset the config, right>
11:35:09paulheuI've been looking at the code for weeks as I do my own build over on mysticriver, and did some coding way back (basic..) and it's more logical then it seems at first.
11:35:22paulheuplus once youget in things start to make sense..
11:35:32amiconnIf you're just adding a new setting at the end, there's no need to bump the config block version
11:35:46midkayah, alright.
11:35:56midkaypaulheu, cool, that's how i started. :)
11:36:04*amiconn needs testers :/
11:36:06paulheuok thanks guys.. guess I'm off doing some coding:)
11:36:14midkaypaulheu, cool, good luck :)
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11:36:29tucozamiconn, ported the greyscale lib?
11:36:37amiconnNah, not yet
11:37:07amiconnI have a working display flip, and some other improvements of the lcd driver
11:37:21tucozI see
11:37:28amiconnHelps me understanding the lcd controller, in preparation for porting the grayscale lib
11:38:18 Quit Sugardad ()
11:40:50tucozis it me, or is the mini-simulator not functional yet?
11:41:53amiconnThe image is missing, so you can't build one
11:42:04tucozI see
11:42:07amiconnI'll scan my mini today
11:42:38tucozDid you scan the innards of the mini as well?
11:42:46amiconnI took photos
11:43:13tucozI had a look at that page.
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11:48:45tucozbluebrother^, do you know where to find an overview of the marvosym images and their respective latex names?
11:49:02bluebrother^you're on linux?
11:49:34bluebrother^/usr/share/texmf/doc/fonts/marvosym/marvodoc.pdf on my box
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11:50:49bluebrother^or try ctan, for example here:
11:51:20bluebrother^I found an overview over a lot of symbol packages on the net 2 days ago.
11:51:52bluebrother^If you're searching for a special symbol ...
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11:53:22tucozI found the doc locally. I'll have a look at the other symbols as well.
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11:53:46safetydanoo... wma patch
11:54:29muesli__hum, wma on rockbox?
11:54:46Paul_The_NerdOh, he told me he was gonna post it.
11:55:28midkayquestion - for the settings struct/menu, if an option has two modes should it be a bool even if it isn't yes/no?
11:55:47Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: What are the two modes?
11:56:03midkay"relative" and "absolute", for the scroll bar.
11:56:05safetydanmuesli__, yup
11:56:27muesli__though i have no wma's ;)
11:56:39tucozsafetydan, is the archive broken for you as well?
11:56:47safetydanhaven't tried it
11:56:58muesli__at least those everlasting "wma-support?" threads will disappear
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11:58:07amiconnmidkay: What would that option do?
11:58:35tucozI couldn't tar xvfz it. Had to gunzip and untar it
11:58:42Paul_The_Nerdtucoz: If you're talking about the WMA one, it opened for me. I had to "extract" it three times with 7-zip though
11:58:44amiconnRockbox already suffers from optionitis :/
11:58:49midkayamiconn, instead of having the scrollbar displaying the current "page"'s location based off the number of files, absolute mode would display the cursor's pos out of the entire number of files.
11:58:58midkayoptionitis. haha.
11:59:32midkayipod's default firmware does that ('absolute') as well as many other players i've used, i thought it'd be a nice option..
11:59:33safetydantucoz, it works if you gunzip it first, then un tar it
11:59:34amiconnI don't think this makes sense.
11:59:39midkayamiconn, what?
11:59:49tucozsafetydan, <tucoz> I couldn't tar xvfz it. Had to gunzip and untar it :-D
12:00:00amiconnHaving the scroll bar showing the cursor pos in relation to the whole list
12:00:04Paul_The_NerdI'll be back, my computer's apparently dying
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12:00:34amiconnIt would cause the knob to not fill the whole bar if there's only one page, and would make the knob rather small in general
12:00:37safetydantucoz, ah sorry... on the phone as well so not reading :)
12:00:44amiconnImho that'd be confusing
12:00:50tucozno problem :)
12:01:15tucozbluebrother^, quite an impressive document
12:01:23midkayamiconn, that is correct.. the knob is smaller but always moves when it's visible.
12:01:37amiconnYeah, but that doesn't make sense
12:01:55midkaywhy not? many other firmwares do it instead of "our" way..
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12:02:11midkayipod's.. some (all?) rio players..
12:02:21amiconnWell, I saw that behaviour in *some* windows application. It confused me like hell
12:02:33Mikachui would prefer the scrollbar to be at the right edge
12:02:42midkayamiconn, you have a mini - can you access the default OS yet?
12:02:50midkayMikachu, that'd be a nice option to put in..
12:02:57amiconnI could, if I would remove the rockbox bootloader
12:03:06midkaynot worth it, i guess..
12:03:17amiconnEven if I'd do, I had no use for it
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12:03:34amiconnNo itunes installed, and no intention to do so
12:03:48midkayi mean just in the menus even..
12:03:54midkayto see the scrollbar.
12:03:57amiconnAh, yes
12:04:08amiconnI saw that when first playing with the thing
12:04:21amiconnConfused me the same way as those weird windows apps
12:04:26midkayconfusing? i'm rather used to it, i actually prefer it that way, i thought others might like that too..
12:04:32midkayhaha. :)
12:05:14amiconnWindows explorer, nautilus, konquerer... all do it like rockbox.
12:05:39midkaywell, yeah, of course explorer/GUI browsers do.. what else would it be based off? the mouse cursor position? :)
12:05:50midkaywith text single-line entries it seems to vary though..
12:05:51amiconnScrollbar know equals visible window in relation to whole list, and no scrollbar at all if list fits in window
12:06:30midkayamiconn, works exactly the same with absolute mode, only it equals selected item in relation to whole list.. not displayed at all if it fits, the same way relative works..
12:07:57*amiconn doesn't see the point
12:08:34midkayi didn't think some would, but i thought some people would be used to it that way and prefer that mode..
12:08:39amiconnIn the current implementation, you already have visual feedback when moving through lists
12:08:49amiconnEither the cursor moves, or the scrollbar
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12:09:08Mikachui'm not sure if this is what you're talking about, but if the knob is smaller, you know the list is longer
12:09:15midkayright.. but in the ipod firmware for example, you have the scrollbar and the cursor moving. :)
12:09:21amiconnWith your idea, the scrollbar knob would give the impression that there are way more entries than there actually are
12:09:36Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: I always thought seeing both moving looked kinda funny.
12:10:00midkayamiconn, well, no, it remains 'accurate'.. if you're used to seeing both move, you're used to seeing a smaller knob for fewer files..
12:11:00amiconnYeah, but you can't easily estimate the total number of files from the knob size without actually going through the list
12:11:31amiconnToday, I know that there are approx. twice as many files as I can currently see when the knob fills half of the bar
12:11:58midkaynot when the cursor is at the very top, no.. as soon as you begin to move, the scrollbar starts to scale with the cursor and you get a very good idea of how many pages there are. much better a feeling than the standard bar..
12:12:16tucozbluebrother^, wonder what a suitable symbol would be to use for the fixme macro
12:12:29midkayit's not so much an improvement, amiconn, as just a preference..
12:12:33bluebrother^I used \Lightning for now.
12:12:55amiconnImho it would be an almost useless option, but it bloats the binaries...
12:13:02bluebrother^as I don't want to use too much different packages only for symbols.
12:13:03amiconn...something we don't need
12:13:11Paul_The_NerdI was gonna say, whichever one ends up preferred, only one should be picked instead of an option
12:13:13tucozgood. I actually thought about that as well
12:13:15*midkay sobs
12:13:23amiconnWe're less than 2KB away of breaking rombox for the fmr
12:13:30bluebrother^I also tried placing it on the other margin for faster recognition.
12:13:37tucozthe left one?
12:13:55bluebrother^but this only works when setting it as a new paragraph.
12:14:51amiconnWhat rockbox needs is option & code consolidation, not further bloat
12:15:02tucozhehe, you could also use the \MartinVogel or \Womanface
12:15:13midkayamiconn, when you mention how close we are to the limit, sure, i agree.
12:15:51tucozlot's of nice symbols.
12:15:52midkayamiconn, btw, any word on that lang update?
12:16:11Paul_The_Nerd3.2 should be codenamed "Redux" and should be entirely focused on streamlining, optimization, and size reduction rather than getting anything new firmly implemented.
12:16:16amiconnYes. I have to get my head around that perl stuff
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12:16:40midkayPaul_The_Nerd, that sounds fun :)
12:16:44Paul_The_NerdThere's a lot of Archos users who feel they've been forgotten, anyway.
12:17:21tucozthere are even hieroglyphs available.
12:17:47amiconnmidkay: And btw, just 'because apple does it' is a rather bad justification for a feature. Rockbox should not try to mimic the original firmware of whatever target.
12:17:53tucozsomeone should translate rockbox to hieroglyphic :)
12:18:02tucozor whatever that language is called
12:18:10Paul_The_NerdAncient Egyptian?
12:18:25midkayamiconn, it wasn't my justification.. it was an example. also both rio MP3 players i own do it, and i *think* my iFP-395T did/does it..
12:18:33Paul_The_NerdI'm not sure many concepts would translate
12:18:34*ashridah seems to recall we've had this "not mimic <original manufacturer> firmware" argument in the past
12:18:44amiconnSo, no iPod 4G (or 3G) grayscale iPod owner around??
12:18:54midkaynot that we need to mimic them, no. but i like the option and i like the idea of having it. i prefer it.
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12:19:41midkayit's like saying we have "repeat" or "shuffle" because other mp3 players have it.. well, they do, but that doesn't mean we're mimicing them..
12:21:21Bgeramiconn: is the "char" signed or unsigned by default ?
12:21:32amiconnmidkay: Hmm, strange. The archos firmware also does it like you describe for iPod
12:21:51amiconnIriver does a completely weird thing, it pages instead of scrolls
12:21:51midkayreally? i was thinking it did, but it's been.. well.. years.. :)
12:22:16amiconnBg3r: Depends on the architecture. For most it's unsigned, for some it's signed
12:22:25midkayamiconn, so does their scrollbar show the page like us or the absolute position like i advocate? :)
12:22:39amiconnWhich 'their'?
12:23:04amiconnArchos does absolute position. Iriver pages, and the knob size doesn't seem to relate to anything
12:23:58amiconnIndeed. The iriver knob has a fixed size, and the scrollbar is always visible, even if the list fits the screen
12:24:07midkaywhy even have one? :)
12:24:48amiconnImho the iriver firmware has the worst UI I've seen in all original firmwares so far
12:25:11JdGordonna, its not worse than ipod..
12:25:17tucozirivers file browser isn't exactly what you would call good
12:25:20Paul_The_NerdWhich iriver firmware?
12:25:24JdGordon.. coming from my 5min experience with ipod :d
12:25:30tucozh1xx series
12:25:31midkayipod's is actually pretty good IMO..
12:25:47midkayat least way better than archos'..
12:26:20amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: Both H1x0 and H300
12:26:39amiconnmidkay: The H1x0 firmware doesn't even have a knob, but it has a bar...
12:26:51midkayamiconn, whaaa..
12:27:07amiconnIt just shows arrows at the top/bottom depending on whether there are more entries in that direction
12:27:17midkayhaha. how useful.
12:28:04midkaywow.. google image search for H120.. three or more rockbox pix right on the first page
12:29:09amiconnHmm. The archos Ondio firmware also does that absolute thing... with a bug in the knob size
12:29:39*amiconn thanks rolo
12:29:42midkayOnly On Archos (tm) :)
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12:30:06*midkay wonders if amiconn is warming up to the idea of an option
12:30:18amiconnNot really
12:30:34amiconnI still think our way is more intuitive.
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12:30:44midkayopinions aside..
12:30:48amiconnIn fact it depends on how you think about the bar
12:30:50bluebrother^tucoz: I played around with latex2html yesterday
12:31:23bluebrother^but the results are pretty poor :(
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12:34:09midkayamiconn, i might try a left/right option and see how it works tomorrow.. what are your thoughts on that?
12:35:42*Paul_The_Nerd thinks it should be absolute on the right, and relative on the left, just to confuse people.
12:35:53midkayhahaha, that'd own..
12:36:26midkaymaybe one diagonally across the screen with relative drawn and absolute inverted out of the relative portion..
12:36:52Mikachuit should rotate in the middle of the screen
12:37:36midkayhaha. no. wait! a circular scroll bar! and the knob is located at rand() calculated each time an event is detected pertaining to browsing..
12:39:33tucozbluebrother^, so you got results at least
12:39:40amiconnmidkay: That'd be a circular scrollbar with 96 positions, correlated with the clickwheel
12:40:00Mikachucorkscrew scroll!
12:40:14midkaypress-a-button-and-your-player-is-formatted scroll!!
12:40:48Paul_The_NerdThere clearly aren't enough "Destroy my player" screens.
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12:41:24tucozbluebrother^, first when I tried latex2html it looked pretty good. I.e. by only running it without any options etc. But that was some months ago
12:41:42tucozmaybe hevea is better
12:44:42tucozyes, that is a latex2html program
12:45:06tucozif you run ubuntu, it's apt-get hevea
12:45:12bluebrother^ah, just found it. Never heard of that before.
12:45:23bluebrother^I'm on fedora.
12:46:26tucozgot to go. See you later
12:46:29bluebrother^cool, they have packages on the project site :)
12:46:40tucozlike, the packages we use?
12:47:01tucozoh, for fedora.
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12:48:45*linuxstb wonders why he owns the copyright in all the wma decoder source files...
12:50:25amiconncopy-n-paste lazyness I'd say
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12:57:47JdGordonlinuxstb: also, so u get sued.. now the real owner :D
12:58:09*linuxstb needs to have a word with the author...
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12:58:50JdGordondoes this mean we have mwa decoding? or not finished yet?
13:01:33Paul_The_NerdFar from finished, I'd guess
13:03:01linuxstbIt's _just_ the decoder library - no integration at all into Rockbox. There isn't even any standalone test code.
13:04:48linuxstbWhat do people think about making an exception for WMA support and adding it to CVS after the feature freeze (assuming a working patch appears)? I wouldn't have any objections.
13:05:27JdGordonwma would be nice.. to keep the masses happy.. but a rule is a rule..
13:05:38JdGordonadd my text editor before the freeeeze.... :'(
13:05:52JdGordon.. or tell me what needs to be done so ti deos get added..
13:09:24midkaynight all
13:09:46Mooslinuxstsb: a rule have *always* exception :-)
13:14:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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13:22:42leftrightSlasheri, you aorund ?
13:25:13leftrightdircache doesn't enable from a config file, I have to manually reselect the dircache option (after loading the cfg file), yes, no, yes for the change to take.
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13:45:59Slasherihmm, that's weird
13:47:26Mikachuhoho, i crashed the simulator by writing bad plugin code
13:47:58Mikachumaybe not so strange since the code runs natively
13:48:21 Quit bluebrother^ ("bbl")
13:50:07Mikachuhm, why doesn't foo %= 10; work to keep foo between 0 and 9 if foo was negative?
13:50:19Mikachuif it's 10, the result is 0 as expected
13:53:21Slasheriif foo is a counter counting up, then that should work
13:53:55Mikachuit's a variable that keeps track of a position, i wanted to do a simpler bounds check than 2 if statements and assignments
13:54:57Slasheriah, yes. But you can't check the negative boundary with that
13:55:08Slasheriso better to put at least one if there
13:55:20Mikachuokay, that's a bit strange
13:55:24Slasheriin fact, ifs may be faster too
13:55:32Mikachuyeah, i'm just lazy :)
13:55:40Mikachutrying to implement life
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13:59:29Mikachuhoho, done
13:59:54Mikachufor small values of done
14:05:03Mikachu (only works for ipods so far, i've spent about 20 minutes on it)
14:07:05Mikachujust the keybinds and the display constants need some more general defining
14:08:26Mikachuhrm, it compiles for sim but my struct syntax doesn't seem to be liked by target gcc
14:18:37amiconnHmm, how can I strip quotes from a string in perl?
14:19:04Mikachusomtehing like a =~ s/["']//g; maybe, my perl isn't very strong though
14:20:39amiconnI mean within an expression, and only quotes at the beginning or end
14:25:08JdGordonis there a way in unix to run a program and find out its mem usage while its running?
14:26:13Mikachui don't think you can do it without making a copy or modifying the original string
14:26:27MikachuJdGordon: run top
14:26:47Mikachumemory usage reporting in linux is a bit shaky though
14:27:51amiconnNah, I moved the strip, and found how to do it in one regex
14:28:07amiconnregex are powerful, but may cause brainhurts, so beware...
14:28:53Mikachuthat's the one
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14:42:09Slasherior something like that: s/^['"](.*)['"]$/$1/;
14:42:20ashridahline noise!
14:43:32MikachuSlasheri: that should work too, but be slower
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14:44:49webguest74won't amiconn's version only match either?
14:44:51webguest74not both
14:45:06Mikachuit will match both, because of the g
14:45:10webguest74ah, right
14:45:19Slasheriyeah. And some nice perl lines, for example this one converts the first character of every sentence to upper case and adds periods: perl -ple's/(^|\.\W*)(\w)/$1\U$2/g,s/(?:\.|(\w))([^.\w]*)$/$1.$2/'
14:45:47amiconnSlasheri: Your version wouldn't keep anything if there are no quotes
14:46:00amiconnI need to strip quotes, but they might not be present
14:46:44amiconnnot kiss...
14:48:01Mikachujust saying :)
14:48:03*amiconn wonders what jabber there is in deutsch.lang so that the conversion script still strips it down by ~5 %
14:50:18*webguest74 is excited to discover wma decoderlib
14:51:07*amiconn is silly
14:51:21amiconnI scrapped all deprecated stuff, so it has to become smaller...
14:51:37linuxstbwebguest74: There's still a _lot_ of work to do before it can be used in Rockbox though...
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14:52:55webguest74linuxstb: yeah, but less than previously
14:53:16 Quit Lost-ash (Client Quit)
14:54:38webguest74Feature freeze: 0:00 CET, Mon 3rd April 2006
14:54:52webguest74Is that sun->mon or mon->tue
14:55:23Mikachushould be the first
14:55:32Mikachui think
14:55:42linuxstbI expect so too.
14:56:48linuxstbBut why CET, and not CEST?
14:57:31webguest74Good question
15:00:28webguest74 :)
15:00:54MikachuLast-Modified: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 23:03:59 GMT
15:01:35webguest74Yeah, the rockbox website seem to have lots of oooooold files littered here and there
15:09:05 Quit ashridah (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:10:59actionshrimphmm im trying to back up my mp3s directory from one PC to another, loads of the files are backed up already so i only want to copy files which dont exist at the destination, is there an xcopy switch to do that
15:12:31amiconnI just deleted my english.lang :-(
15:13:12amiconnPhew, my editor still had it loaded....
15:13:31amiconnYeah, really
15:13:36amiconnMany hours of work...
15:13:50linuxstbNow make 10 copies :)
15:14:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:14:16amiconnI just went: 'hey, I have converted all .lang files to new format as .txt, now delete *.lang then rename *.txt to *.lang
15:14:26amiconnBut that doesn't hold for english.lang...
15:14:52linuxstbactionshrimp: A tool like "rsync" will do that. I'm sure there are GUI apps as well for Windows that can do it.
15:15:05actionshrimpok, ill investigate
15:15:06preglowoooh, wma patch
15:15:07actionshrimpthanks a lot
15:15:10*amiconn is about to commit the .lang rework
15:17:22webguest74preglow: heard about seeking in musepack?
15:17:25linuxstbpreglow: It's not really a patch - just a "libwma" which looks like it won't compile inside Rockbox (malloc etc). But it looks a good start to me.
15:18:17 Join ender` [0] (i=ychat@
15:21:39preglowwebguest74: not with the current format
15:21:52preglowwebguest74: but something seems to be happening with musepack seeking these days
15:24:20webguest74 - I believve some of this works for the current format as well
15:24:33webguest74 from 01:53
15:24:59webguest74At least, that's the impression I got
15:30:21 Quit midkay (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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15:31:21preglowwebguest74: some of it might work, but it really requires an encoder patch to work perfectly
15:32:26preglow64 by 32 bit multiply
15:33:25preglowin the wma decoder
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15:35:51amiconnWow, my .lang rework adds up to almost 3MB .diff
15:36:09Bgerwow :)
15:36:22webguest74preglow: I don't know how well it works without the encoder patch, just sounded like it was good enough
15:37:42preglowlinuxstb: i think this thing will need a bunch of optimising
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15:39:05linuxstbI'm sure it will.
15:39:26linuxstbI wish the author would drop in here...
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15:40:57Mikachulinuxstb: that ipl bootloader2 guy was here again yesterday or so, not sure if anyone saw him but me
15:41:31Mikachu19:04 <tempi> i have another question: do you have use for the ability to pass a text string to the loaded rockbox from the loader? e.g. that you can configure the loader to launch rockbox with either of 2 or more arguments and the user can then select them at boot time?
15:42:09Mikachu19:05 <tempi> if so, contact me soon, please, over at #ipodlinux-dev or personally (might have to try my other nick "tempel" then as well)
15:42:40preglowhmm, i guess that might be rather nice
15:42:45preglowbut how to do it
15:42:54 Join mikearthur [0] (
15:43:13preglowthat way the bootloader can pass info like whether usb mode has been entered, what display type some ipods use, etc
15:44:53amiconnMeh, why does the build system not pick my my oops commit?
15:45:07amiconnThe red builds should already be fixed
15:45:08*Mikachu bunps amiconn
15:45:23Mikachupreglow: maybe it can write somewhere in iram?
15:45:29*amiconn has to go now. cvs source should build w/o error
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15:46:30Moosamiconn: I'll begin francais.lang rework next week
15:46:44webguest70does rockbox work on ipod mini 4g?
15:46:49linuxstbpreglow: I can't think of anything useful the bootloader could tell Rockbox that Rockbox couldn't figure out for itself.
15:47:05preglowthe two examples i mentioned was what came to mind
15:47:10JdGordonCassandra: u around?
15:47:12linuxstbwebguest70: It works on the 2nd Generation minis, and _may_ work on the first generation.
15:47:31webguest74amiconn: it's building now
15:47:42linuxstbpreglow: Rockbox can figure the LCD type out for itself easily. Also, how does the bootloader know if USB mode has been entered?
15:48:26webguest70i have the the version with the click wheel so its definately past 2nd generation
15:48:33webguest70i guess im out of luck then?
15:48:38preglowlinuxstb: then why is that info currently passed in the upper byte of ram from the bootloader?
15:48:47webguest74webguest70: There are only two generations of Minis
15:49:09 Quit Febs (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:49:11Mikachucan't all you webguests use real nicks so i don't get so confused?
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15:51:26 Nick webguest74 is now known as realnick (
15:52:08linuxstbpreglow: Yes, the hardware version (e.g. 0x60000) is something that the bootloader needs to pass to Rockbox (or we change Rockbox to store it somewhere before we remap RAM).
15:52:29Mikachurealnick: ha ha :P
15:52:59linuxstbwebguest70: Here is a good description of the different ipods:
15:53:19preglowthe current fixed point format used in libwma sure wont be easy to optimise for coldfire
15:53:45linuxstbDo you know if the author is an iriver owner?
15:54:34linuxstbHow will it work on ARM?
15:54:41preglowjust fine
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15:56:50webguest70which bootloader should i use for my mini?
15:57:14preglowand i dont think the output precision is too grand in this thing
15:57:24preglow16 bits
15:57:36 Quit tianjing (Remote closed the connection)
15:57:44linuxstbwebguest70: Which mini do you have? First or Second generation?
15:58:10 Join tianjing [0] (
15:59:39linuxstbI'll build a bootloader now and upload it to the installation wiki page. Give me a few minutes.
16:00:06webguest70wow, thats cool
16:00:26 Quit Rob2222_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:02:05linuxstbwebguest70: It's at the bottom of this page:
16:03:28linuxstbI haven't tested it (I don't own a mini), so please let me know if it's OK. Also, it's a known issue that this bootloader will cause the display in the Apple firmware to be corrupt (mirrored and offset slightly). So if you want to keep using the Apple firmware, you'll need to uninstall the bootloader until that problem is fixed.
16:04:11 Join midkay_ [0] (
16:04:18webguest70im installing it now
16:04:58preglowi will see about trying it out sooner or later
16:05:13 Quit midkay (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:05:38*preglow gone
16:05:52Mikachuis it possible to make the nano apple firmware mirrored too? :P
16:06:14*Mikachu does the Silly Dance [tm]
16:07:10linuxstbYes - look at it in a mirror...
16:08:00webguest70ok its installed
16:08:13webguest70no for the moment of truth
16:08:49webguest70it showed some text really quick
16:08:54webguest70like it was loading
16:08:59webguest70then it just rebooted
16:09:22 Join obo_ [0] (
16:09:54webguest70what could i have done wrong?
16:10:14realnickDo you have the Rockbox files on your drive?
16:10:25webguest70i think so
16:10:32realnickA ".rockbox" directory?
16:11:20 Quit JdGordon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:11:33realnickDid you download a cvs build from and unzip to your ipod?
16:11:58webguest70no i click older on the wiki
16:11:59 Quit obo (Nick collision from services.)
16:12:12webguest70i have to use a cvs build?
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16:13:15 Quit ScoTTie_ ()
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16:13:39realnickIn the wiki? Where?
16:14:34realnickAh, a daily build?
16:14:59DBUGEnqueued KICK webguest70
16:14:59webguest70thats where i got it from
16:15:38webguest70it shows the rock boot screen for a second
16:15:47webguest70then my ipod goes into disk mode
16:16:14webguest70or it reboots
16:16:48webguest70im trying cvs now
16:19:19 Quit MarcoPolo ("Bye !")
16:20:22webguest70cvs one doesnt work either
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16:21:09webguest70all i get is the rockbox boot loader for half a second
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16:22:56linuxstbCan you read any messages from the bootloader, or does it disappear too fast?
16:23:53webguest70it disappears very fast
16:23:57webguest70just long enough to see the usb symbol
16:24:05webguest70after some text scrolls by
16:24:05linuxstbDo you have the USB cable inserted?
16:24:34linuxstbIt seems like Rockbox thinks you have USB inserted, and is rebooting you into disk mode...
16:24:40webguest70infact it only stays on if i leave usb cable in actually
16:24:51linuxstbThe USB symbol is displayed by Rockbox itself - so the bootloader is loading Rockbox OK.
16:25:16linuxstbamiconn is the only dev with a mini - but I don't think he's around at the moment.
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16:29:28webguest70how can i make it NOT think a usb cable is plugged in? is this a setting issue or something?
16:29:45webguest70i unmounted it properly i think
16:30:43linuxstbIt seems to be an issue with the USB detection in Rockbox.
16:31:12webguest70i can no longer access the apple firmware by holding menu anymore
16:33:05linuxstbI think I remember amiconn saying that the button driver in the bootloader isn't working on the mini either at the moment. Deleting rockbox.ipod will cause the bootloader to start the apple firmware.
16:34:02fergiemaybe an interesting replacement for gnuchess: , an open source chess engine on GM level.
16:34:37linuxstbwebguest70: I've just built you a without (I hope) USB detection if you want to test:
16:34:48linuxstbfergie: Any idea about the requirements in terms of CPU and RAM?
16:37:01fergieThe largest part should be the hash table I think, and you can set that at any amount I think.
16:37:21linuxstbC++ doesn't fit into Rockbox well either. So it should be converted to C.
16:38:21 Join Genre9mp3 [0] (
16:38:25fergieah ok
16:38:55webguest70ok im testing it
16:39:50webguest70it works!
16:40:03webguest70the menu atleast
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16:40:05webguest70hold on
16:40:08webguest70testing audio
16:41:05webguest70my ipod_control folder isnt showing
16:41:31 Join Jungti1234__ [0] (n=jungti12@
16:41:37linuxstbYou need to go the main menu, then General Settings -> File View -> Show Files and set it to All
16:41:43webguest70ah ok
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16:42:03Genre9mp3Maybe a stupid question but....I just compiled a build using some patches I wanted and yesterday's CVS. Everything is OK but when I go to see the version it says: 060401-1653... this is normal?
16:42:08linuxstbiPod_Control has the hidden/system bits set - so Rockbox doesn't show it by default.
16:42:10 Join Spida [0] (
16:42:19MikachuGenre9mp3: what else would it say?
16:42:44Genre9mp3I don't know....I thought it was saying CVS date & time...
16:42:51Genre9mp3stupid me...
16:43:39linuxstbwebguest70: You could also test TagCache - it will build (in Rockbox) a database of all your music that you can browse by artist, album etc :
16:45:03webguest70hey, are there any visualizations, by any chance?
16:45:26Mikachuwebguest70: try the oscilloscope plugin
16:45:55realnickGenre9mp3: It shows build time, afaik
16:46:14fergieThis is maybe also be interesting, a very strong implementation of the classic boardgame Othello. General details:
16:47:28webguest70how do I download TagCache?
16:47:42Genre9mp3Is there a way to find out the CVS source date & time I used? (just out of curiosity)
16:48:15linuxstbNo - every file in CVS has its own date/time.
16:48:16 Quit midkay_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:48:39Genre9mp3Oh...I see...thanks
16:48:59 Join midkay_ [0] (
16:49:55linuxstbfergie: You have about 31 hours to go before the v3.0 feature freeze...
16:50:26Mikachufergie: that bluechip guy wrote an othello plugin for rockbox
16:50:50realnickAh, that's where.. I could've sworn Rockbox already had one
16:50:51linuxstbHow do you know bluechip is a guy?
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16:51:40CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
16:51:40*petur runs an iriver sim with recording stubs ;)
16:51:50Mooslinuxstb: haha :D , reference to the closed anonymous debate?
16:51:51linuxstbI was just commenting on his/her wish for anonymity.
16:52:08Mikachuwell, i'm only guessing
16:52:31Mikachuand since english doesn't have a pronoun for a person with unknown gender, i'll just say him
16:54:31 Quit Spida_ (Connection timed out)
16:54:44linuxstbpetur: That will be useful for the manual authors. Are you going to commit?
16:55:06peturjust testing the other platforms to avoid red builds
16:55:11webguest70theres it
16:55:57linuxstbwebguest70: Yes, tagcache is part of Rockbox.
16:56:27webguest70i see that now
16:56:51webguest70i was just browsing through my songs that were organized by itunes
16:57:01webguest70automatically shows the name
16:59:08webguest70is there a built in feature to convert the filename to the name shown by id3?
17:00:05RedBreva : iPod2G manual fails to build, there is a mistake in tools/configure - refers to ipodmini2g, but platform file is called ipodmini
17:00:28Mikachui thought it would fail to build by lack of bitmaps anyway
17:00:44safetydanHrmm... no Zagor. Anyone know how to disable flyspray emails temporarily?
17:00:51RedBrevaIt will, but I have submitted patch with temp bitmaps to fix that..
17:01:31Mikachudoest that just make it harder to see which are needde?
17:02:15RedBrevaThe imge has a big red FIXME n it, so browsing the manual makes it easy to spot which screendumps are required to be taken..
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17:09:33bluebrother^RedBreva: I'm trying to extend the \screenshot macro to skip missing images
17:09:47bluebrother^but something still doesn't work.
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17:14:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:14:20webguest70hey i noticed something
17:15:33 Quit RedBreva (Excess Flood)
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17:16:24webguest70when i enable the eq on my 2g mini, songs get a little choppy if the song contains a particulary high amount of the adjusted frequency
17:16:41 Join fiftyfour123 [0] (
17:18:15 Quit mikearthur ("Konversation terminated!")
17:18:25webguest70instead of distortion it does a complete sound drop
17:19:10webguest70i tried a little bass boss
17:19:49webguest70hey is there anyway to record, like with ipodlinux?
17:23:08 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
17:24:35realnickNo recording on ipods yet, no. The EQ is too heavy on the CPU to use with heavy songs
17:24:49realnickhigh quality etc.
17:25:37 Quit Genre9mp3 ()
17:25:39webguest70i c
17:28:36Nico_PSlasheri: you there ?
17:30:02SlasheriNico_P: hi, yes
17:30:32Nico_Pjust wanted to know if you'd spotted any big ugly mistakes in my album art code yesterday...
17:30:46 Join muesli__ [0] (n=muesli_t@
17:31:54Slasheriwell, i haven't looked that so closely but it just looks like it can't work that way
17:32:28 Quit fiftyfour123 ("Chatzilla 0.9.71 [Firefox]")
17:32:47Nico_PSlasheri: why not ?
17:32:51Slasherii haven't yet investigated what would be a quick fix for the patch until metadata storage has been implemented
17:33:19Slasherihmm, just a moment
17:35:04Slasheriat first, the buffer might wrap and it seems that hasn't been counted on
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17:35:43 Quit midkay_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:35:46bl1hello everyone
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17:36:32Slasheriand then you just increase buf_widx and change filepos and start_pos.. but that's not enough
17:36:49Slasheriwhen skipping backwards for example, the buffer position will go very wrong
17:37:06Nico_Pi do change buf_ridx at some places, but it still isn't enough
17:37:25Slasheriyeah, it would be very hard to fix it
17:37:35Slasheriproper way to do it would be to wait for the metadata storage :)
17:38:01Nico_Pbut how is that going to be easier to do ?
17:38:43Nico_Pbecause you're going to make the codec buffer big enough to store the metadata too ?
17:39:02Slasherinow, there is a separate metadata storage layer in the playback engine
17:39:16Slasherithen you wouldn't need to worry about those buffer indexes at all
17:39:32Slasherijust to tell the engine how much you want to store metadata and what type
17:40:12Nico_Pyes, but reserving a space in there for album art is a waste of memory for those who don't use it and for tracks without album art
17:40:20Nico_Ptha'ts what i did before
17:40:35Slasherithere is no need to reserve any space
17:40:46Slasheriwe would allocate the space while filling the buffers
17:40:58Slasheriif there is album art, then that is loaded and space allocated
17:41:05Slasheriotherwise, no space are to be wasted
17:41:13 Quit webguest70 ("CGI:IRC")
17:42:25Nico_Pah ok
17:42:41Nico_Pbut that's not possible with the current system, right ?
17:43:04realnickHrm, quick C question: How do I get the unsigned integer value of a char? (int) buf[i] gives me a negative value.. I assumed (unsigned int) buf[i] would help me, but it doesn't
17:43:42Nico_Pok, then i think i'll wait... i'll probably go back to a memory wasting solution that works well and add things like scaling
17:43:42Slasheri(unsigned char)buf[i]
17:43:52SlasheriNico_P: good
17:44:26Nico_Pand then it should be quite easy to move to the new system
17:44:46Nico_Phave you started looking at it ?
17:44:46*Nico_P is hoping
17:45:10Slasherii have had some ideas.. but i can't make it before the feature freeze..
17:45:21Slasheriso you will have to wait for a month
17:46:04Nico_Pi'm not in a hurry... as long as i have album art showing on my screen i'm pleased :)
17:46:48Slasheri:) then you may consider some quick temporary fixes but you will need to read the sources more carefully to understand what are the problems
17:47:38Nico_Pi think i'll just go back to my old system... i don't care about the 'memory waste' because i actually use the space so it's not a waste
17:47:51Nico_Pit worked fine
17:48:17linuxstbIs there any way to define binary constants in C?
17:49:07Slasherihmm, what kind of binary constants?
17:49:53 Quit MarcoPolo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:50:07linuxstbA constant number in binary - I would have expected 0b1001011 to work, but it seems ANSI C doesn't support it.
17:50:27Slasheriah, interesting. i don't know about that
17:50:35Slasheriprobably you should just use hex codes
17:50:43Slasherithose are pretty easy to convert to binary in mind
17:50:59Slasherias one symbol means 4 bits
17:52:00linuxstbYes, but in this case the binary would be much more readable - I'm using it to define templates for a Sudoku game generator. I'll have to write a script to convert them to hex...
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17:53:15Slasherihmm, true. or maybe you could make a define.. something like BIN(1,0,0,1,0,1,1)
17:54:13Slasherior even BIN(01001011);
17:55:36davincihello. can somebody please commit this patch: and close the task?
17:56:40linuxstbSlasheri: That's too much work... I'll just put the binary pattern in a comment next to the hex value.
17:56:56linuxstbThey don't need to be changed anyway.
17:57:34Slasheriwell, i just made a define.. now testing if it works :)
17:57:56 Part stripwax
17:59:27Slasherihehe, no it doesn't :)
18:00:36 Quit RedBreva ("Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox]")
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18:01:50linuxstbSlasheri: It's OK - a quick AWK script solved the problem.
18:06:46peturdavinci: amiconn did some lang updates some hours ago, sure the patch is still needed/working ok?
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18:13:22sharpei'm awake!
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18:44:18davinciback, sorry I don't know anymore who, but somebody asked if this patch works with newest changes: yes it does.
18:45:26sharpethat's kind of odd...
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18:46:39sharpedoom isn't compiling and i haven't even touched it...
18:48:08peturdavinci: I mean, amiconn did quite some changes this afternoon so I suspected the patch was either outdated by it or not applying anymore
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18:50:08davincipetur: I make this patch AFTER amiconn apdated language files
18:50:38peturheh, I just saw it ;)
18:50:50MulziSAWpatch works fine for me too ^^
18:53:35peturthere's something wrong with it
18:53:56peturno wait
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18:58:44peturit's ok
18:58:57peturare you already in the credits?
19:00:55petursoon you will ;)
19:01:06davinciwhat was wrong?
19:01:32peturnothing, I thought there was a double, but it's ok
19:02:29davincithe patch was created by CVS, and the only thing I changed was path to the file
19:05:41 Quit SereR0KR (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:10:24realnickAnd it doesn't just undo any of amiconn's changes?
19:11:28peturnot that I saw
19:14:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:16:29sharpeaww... this sucks...
19:17:19davincirealnick: no amiconn's changes get undone. I added all new messages which amiconn didn't add. and the string "modus:" was changed to ":" (F2 pressed) because it looks better (community).
19:17:27 Quit bluebrother^ ("bbl")
19:17:35sharpereally weird...
19:17:36sharpeIn file included from f_finale.c:37:
19:17:36sharpev_video.h:75: error: conflicting types for 'screens'
19:17:36DBUGEnqueued KICK sharpe
19:17:36sharpe/home/Administrator/rockbox/apps/screen_access.h:186: error: previous declaration of 'screens' was here
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19:20:38peturdavinci: committed
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19:22:35davincipetur: thank you
19:23:09peturam enjoying some free time to spend on rb ;)
19:23:54 Quit ScootScat_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:25:46davinciwhat player do you have?
19:26:56davincido you know if others have to press any other key than play when asked "PLAY=Yes"?
19:27:13peturdon't know
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19:29:05realnickI think the PLAY is pretty much only true for Archos
19:29:10realnickdon't know for sure though
19:29:26linuxstbIt's true (mostly, I think) for the ipods as well.
19:29:36 Join skwad [0] (
19:30:00skwadHi everyone
19:30:19 Quit petur ("time's up :(")
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19:31:06davinciso have fun with RB, I'm away (birthday party :) )
19:31:13 Join petur [0] (
19:31:52davincipetur: so have fun with RB, I'm away (birthday party :) )
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19:32:33 Quit petur (Client Quit)
19:34:31egotrippencan someone walk me through making a patch that works? i'm getting an error when i try to apply the ones i've made
19:34:47egotrippen'patch unexpectedly ends in middle of line'
19:35:12egotrippen'patch: **** unexpected end of file in patch'
19:35:38linuxstbMaybe it's a DOS/Unix line endings problem. You should make sure all the files have UNIX line endings.
19:36:02egotrippenforward slashes, right?
19:38:13egotrippeni ran dos2unix on it as suggested, but i get the same error
19:39:22linuxstbWhat did you run dos2unix on?
19:39:42egotrippenthe patch file
19:40:05egotrippendo you mind just taking me through creating one?
19:40:14egotrippensay i've made my changes, then i run cvs diff -u file > patch
19:40:25linuxstbThat's all you need to do.
19:40:57linuxstbBut maybe your local copies of the files have DOS line endings. Try the command "file file.c" and see what it tells you.
19:41:40 Join cky1half_ [0] (
19:42:47egotrippenit says 'file' command not found
19:42:55egotrippeni'm in Cygwin, if that matters
19:43:11 Quit DJ_Dooms_Day ("Trillian (")
19:43:32linuxstbOK - your cygwin installation obviously doesn't have that command.
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19:44:14linuxstbI don't use cygwin, so I'm not sure what else I can suggest. When you installed cygwin, did you set it up to use DOS or Unix text files (it's an option in the setup IIRC).
19:45:22egotrippeni don't remember that option... i just used the guide here
19:45:33Paul_The_NerdWhat's the problem?
19:45:35egotrippeni can try getting 'file'
19:45:39egotrippenmy patches error out
19:45:55egotrippen'patch unexpectedly ends in middle of line'
19:46:06egotrippenwhen i try to apply patches i've made
19:46:45Paul_The_NerdHave you opened up the patch in a text editor and looked at it?
19:46:58Paul_The_NerdIs it reproducing any whole files?
19:47:23egotrippenwhen i created the patch, it made a text with -(entire file) and +(entire file plus changes)
19:47:33egotrippeni changed it so it only removes and adds the lines i changed
19:47:50linuxstbThat definitely sounds like a line-ending problem.
19:47:54egotrippenas far as i can tell, it looks like patches i've downloaded
19:47:57Paul_The_NerdThat's definitely a line ending problem
19:48:06egotrippenso.... what do i do?
19:48:10Paul_The_NerdThe file that got added completely has DOS line endings in your local copy
19:48:25Paul_The_NerdRun dos2unix on IT (or any files that get reproduced wholly) before cvs diffing
19:48:31linuxstbWhat text editor are you using to edit the files?
19:48:46egotrippenjust wordpad
19:48:53 Quit Bger (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
19:49:14egotrippenso i should run dos2unix on the .patch file, or the file i'm patching?
19:49:15linuxstbThat's probably the problem - I'm sure wordpad will save files with DOS line endings. So just do dos2unix on all the files you have edited.
19:49:52CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
19:49:52*linuxstb has finally implemented a game generator for sudoku.
19:50:23 Quit kernelsensei (Connection timed out)
19:51:17Paul_The_Nerdegotrippen: The files the patch is being generated from. Any .c or .h files you edited.
19:51:36Paul_The_Nerdegotrippen: I can almost guarantee if you ran a CVS update right now, those same files would conflict.
19:51:48egotrippenah, i see
19:52:03egotrippeni ran dos2unix on the file, and now the patch is only the lines i changed
19:52:15egotrippenalright, i see what happened
19:52:28sharpepaul, i think i have most of the stuff done for the wpz plugin...
19:52:52Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: Someone in the forums just said they're "really excited about WAV recording on Archos" and "Had been using an H120 for the purpose, but it would be really nice to return to the ease of Rockbox's interface"
19:53:29Paul_The_NerdI just thought it was worth a grin.
19:53:41realnickWhat the...
19:54:22 Quit cky1half (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:54:36linuxstbDoes that mean they are using the iriver firmware on the h120?
19:54:56Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: That's what it sounded like. I'm *really* hoping it's for optical in, and not just a "Oh... there's Rockbox for H120?!" error
19:55:13sharpethat'd be funny...
20:03:03 Join paulheu [0] (
20:04:00paulheumidkay: thanks for the little C course.. sortof.. my patch is on the tracker.. An it was dead simple really
20:05:10egotrippenok, so now that i have working patches
20:05:15 Join MarcoPolo [0] (
20:05:28egotrippencvs update -dP will update the files but leave my patches, right?
20:05:53egotrippeni don't think they were updating before and it was causing problems
20:06:03 Join cky1half__ [0] (
20:06:36paulheuhowever, some patches may disrupt the merging by CVS.. you'll soon find out when you do a build, usuually takes a little visit to the offending code and fixes easily..
20:07:05 Join ScootScat [0] (
20:07:10egotrippenmine are small enough that there probably won't be a problem
20:07:17egotrippenbut i get the idea, yeah
20:07:22egotrippenthanks for helpin me out
20:07:31paulheuI actually just did my own first patch which adds teh option to keep backlight on when you urn a plugin..
20:08:05paulheuI wondered why no-one came up wit the idea before.. took a little fiddling, but the actual code is simple..
20:08:37egotrippenmine are just little, getting '..' files to display and swapping 'BUTTON_SELECT' for 'BUTTON_REC' in gwps.h
20:09:00egotrippeni have two or three albums that begin with '...' and it freaked me out the first time they didn't display
20:09:04Paul_The_NerdI thought "Gee wouldn't it be nice" then "Oh, why bother, I tend to just listen to music anyway"
20:09:25 Join _Lucretia_ [0] (
20:09:44paulheuyeah.. after this one I am getting ideas for more.. hmm.. could be a long night.. and maybe now that I've actually seen and plyed with some code the C books I have here start making sense.. :)
20:10:10 Join bluebrother^ [0] (
20:10:50realnickegotrippen: Aren't they shown when all files are shown?
20:11:14 Quit paulheu ()
20:11:43egotrippenyeah, but i'd rather have it on 'supported'
20:11:57egotrippenand at the time i didn't know about 'all files shown,' i think
20:12:22egotrippeni went in to iriver FW to make sure it still existed, and the mp3s played when i added the 'artist' folder
20:12:57egotrippeni figured it out, but i like having those displayed on 'show supported' while still hiding the .rockbox folder
20:15:34egotrippenok, just another check to make sure things are right
20:15:51egotrippenwhen i run update -dP it has an M next to the files i changed
20:16:05egotrippeninstead of CVS update: file
20:17:22egotrippenand this is good, yes?
20:19:12Paul_The_NerdThat means it merged successfully
20:19:35egotrippenthanks again
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20:44:44skwadlinuxstb are you here ?
20:45:18skwadjust a question about doom
20:45:36linuxstbNot sure if I can help, but you can ask...
20:45:39skwadthe wad file should be put in /games/doom/ right ?
20:46:09skwadis /games/ dir, at the root or in .rockbox ?
20:46:15linuxstbThe root.
20:46:31Bgerskwad it seems that doom needs prboom.wad ...
20:46:44Bgerat least i think so, looking @ the source
20:46:54Nico_Pis it normal that my h300 sim is crashing after a cvs up and even after a make clean ?
20:47:30 Quit _Lucretia_ ("Leaving")
20:48:38Nico_Pi suppose it's related to the sim recording screen that was commited today, but am i the only one in this case ?
20:48:51skwadok Bger just copied prboom.wad, I had another, I give it a try
20:49:29Bgerskwad afics u need also other .wad file
20:49:30linuxstbNico_P: I'm just trying it now.
20:49:42skwadyes I have another one
20:49:50linuxstbskwad: Which player are you using? H300?
20:50:11Nico_Plinuxstb: yes
20:50:12 Join |Josh| [0] (
20:50:20Nico_Poh sorry
20:50:53 Quit cky1half__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:50:56skwadseems to work
20:51:47skwadit just hanged
20:51:59Bgerskwad this is a feature :D
20:52:01linuxstbBut the game loaded and started?
20:52:14skwadit did computing
20:52:45skwadit writes some stuff on the screen
20:53:19skwadnow it seems to hang at init status bar
20:53:59linuxstbDoom is only known to work on the H300 - but it's built for various other players as well. A developer with an X5 needs to investigate.
20:54:11Mikachui guess no ipod yet either?
20:54:18Mikachunot that i'm dying to play it
20:54:28linuxstbNot unless you've fixed it... :)
20:54:35Mikachuheh, sorry
20:55:08skwadok, I tought it was working cause of this : x5: lets build doom...
20:55:09linuxstbThe code is a nightmare. It just doesn't work....
20:55:34Mikachui think having the cvs log on the front page is only causing you trouble :)
20:55:55skwadwhy this ?
20:56:15linuxstbThat's a perfectly accurate commit message... But maybe it could have had "But it doesn't work." added to it.
20:56:30Mikachuyou wouldn't have to be so picky with commits if you didn't
20:56:44Mikachuyou could have a CHANGES file in the cvs instead that you could write the "nice" messages in
20:57:01linuxstbWho would remember to do that with every commit. That's what the cvs logs are for.
20:57:16skwadyep but I don't understand why somebody would build something not working :S
20:57:30linuxstbBecause that's the first step to getting it working.
20:57:43skwadI'm stupid :D
20:57:57linuxstbRemember that Rockbox is still very much "under development".
20:58:13skwadI know I know
20:58:40linuxstbBut I agree the commit message should have mentioned the status of Doom on the X5 as well.
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21:01:38skwadwill there be a new wps version ?
21:01:52Paul_The_NerdA new wps version?
21:02:25skwadlike for languages langv2
21:02:51Paul_The_NerdWhat does langv2 have to do with WPSes?
21:02:53skwadwhere you could perhaps set strings position with pixels
21:03:07skwadIt has nothing to do
21:03:37skwadbut I was thinking somebody said there would perhaps be a new way to make wpses
21:03:43Paul_The_NerdEventually, yes.
21:03:46Paul_The_NerdDon't expect it soon though
21:03:48Mikachuthey weren't talking about the compound bitmaps?
21:05:41linuxstbskwad: The immediate plans for Rockbox can be found here:
21:05:56skwadthank you
21:06:10linuxstbThat includes "viewports" for WPSs - which will allow you pixel-perfect text positioning.
21:06:26Nico_Plinuxstb: so, is the sim working for you ?
21:06:36linuxstbNico_P: Sorry... Yes, it seems fine.
21:06:44Nico_Poh ok
21:06:58linuxstbDid you do a "make install"?
21:07:00Nico_Pi'll have a look when i come back
21:07:00MarcoPoloNico_P: hello
21:07:08Nico_PMarcoPolo: hi
21:07:11Nico_Pbut i'm leaving
21:07:18Nico_Plinuxstb: actually, no
21:07:22MarcoPoloNico_P: i'm trying to find out what triggers the Data abort on my ipod with album art patch
21:07:41MarcoPoloNico_P: in which files does AA patch 'interfere' with tagcache ?
21:07:41Nico_Pcheck out the new one, it shouldn't create problems anymore
21:07:57MarcoPoloNico_P: I have the last one (the 5th)
21:08:10Nico_Pi just updated it with a new version
21:08:18Nico_P4.0 (non-test)
21:08:30MarcoPoloNico_P: oh ! great !
21:08:35MarcoPoloNico_P: I love you ! ;)
21:08:49Nico_Pi'll be back later in the evening
21:09:02Nico_Pplease post comments on the tracker ;)
21:09:04MarcoPolothanks a lot
21:09:09MarcoPoloI won't forget
21:09:15Nico_Pthanks ;)
21:09:17Nico_Pbye all
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21:14:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:15:28sharpehmm... well, that problem's solved.
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21:30:21 Join Massa [0] (n=Massa@
21:30:49MassaGood evening everybody!
21:31:12Bgergood evening ;)
21:32:18Massaanybody here with knowledge about the function peak_meter_draw?
21:33:53MassaOr who knows which nick "Philipp Petermann" has? This is the person who originally wrote the peakmeter code...
21:36:07 Quit JoeBorn ("Leaving")
21:37:03sharpeyay my cool error messages... "Error : Something Went Wrong :("
21:37:15Mikachui like "Error: Success" better
21:38:49sharpewell... there's not much else i can do for the plugin...
21:41:10 Join Massa_ [0] (n=Massa@
21:41:54Massa_amiconn or dan?
21:42:03Massa_or peter?
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21:49:48BgerMassa, at least the IrcNicks doesn't tell anything
21:52:00Massa_I just had a look at the CVS commits - and at least amiconn is the same nick in CVS and in IRC ;)
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21:54:06 Quit realnick ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
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21:54:19realnick2Massa: last posted to the mailinglist on Sep. 2005
21:55:29Massa_who had last postet in september to the mailinglist?
21:56:09realnick2Philipp Pertermann
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21:56:42Massa_Ahh - thanks! Linus initai┤
21:56:42 Join quobl_ [0] (n=quobl@tor/session/x-4855ee5f02e68aae)
21:57:08Massa_Ahh - thanks! Linus initially committed the peakmeter to the CVS - and then a lot of people changed things - most amiconn and dan...
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22:00:47 Part raf82
22:02:10MikachuMassa_: maybe cvs annotate can help you too
22:02:18Mikachuit will say who committed each line in a file
22:02:22 Join miner49er [0] (
22:03:31Massa_I already had a look at the history - and I don't know where and even if there is a bug in that code - I'm just looking for somebody with knowlede about the code with whom I could discuss something...
22:04:47Massa_There are some spots between the peakmeter lines - does anybody notice that?
22:04:49realnick2Posting to the ml might be your best bet
22:06:37Massa_Well, if nobody's here - I'll do that :)
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22:40:25*amiconn is back
22:40:43*Mikachu is upper abdominals
22:40:57linuxstbipod is arm
22:40:58*sharpe is... not going to try.
22:41:14amiconnpreglow: Any idea what I'd have to check for getting the button driver to work in the mini2g bootloader?
22:41:43amiconnBagder: r u there?
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22:41:57linuxstbamiconn: Have a look in the ipodloader source - I think that's where that code came from originally. In tools/loader/ in the IPL cvs.
22:42:12paulheuanyone had a chance to have alook at my backlight patch yet?! (just wondering..)
22:42:25linuxstbpaulheu: Does it implement a global setting now?
22:42:31Mikachui have a halfassed life plugin going, should i add it to the patch tracker or just keep it to myself until it works better? (the one i urled earlier)
22:42:50paulheuand has localisation
22:43:10linuxstbDoes the patch work after amiconn's lang cleanup?
22:43:23paulheuPatch is two hours (or so) old
22:43:28amiconnGah, who did this half-assed deutsch.lang update?
22:43:41amiconn*all* voice: strings are *untranslated*
22:43:53linuxstbpaulheu: Yes, I just noticed that. Should be fine then.
22:44:26paulheuworks very nicely here.. simple, but something to be a bit proud of.. (ahum..) :)
22:44:28Mikachupaulheu: maybe you should rip out the code from xobox, brickmania, tetrox etc (maybe only those three) too
22:44:51paulheuthose have it hardcoded?
22:45:20 Quit muesli- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:45:20paulheuHmm ok.. would be a good idea I guess.. my patch makes this a global setting..
22:45:41Mikachuit looks like clock does something with the backlight too
22:45:46amiconnwhat setting?
22:46:02paulheuyeah.. it has the option in it's menu.. can be let go as well.;)
22:46:10linuxstbpaulheu: I've only quickly looked at your patch. I think you need to add the new setting at the end of the settings structure - not in the middle.
22:46:27Mikachulooks like fire, demystify, oscilloscope, plasma, spacerocks, starfield do it too, unless i did something funny to them
22:46:28linuxstbamiconn: It's a an option to turn the backlight to "always on" when in a plugin.
22:46:40paulheuI thought it would be best to keep settings together?
22:46:41linuxstbCurrently some of the plugins do it themselves.
22:47:10amiconnImho that should be an option within the plugin.
22:47:17linuxstbIn _every_ plugin?
22:47:48Mikachuwould be a pain if you're out in the sunshine and want to turn the backlight off to save some battery
22:48:16amiconnWell, there are plugins in which I would prefer the backlight to be always on, others where I don't want that, and again others where it doesn't make sense at all
22:48:19paulheuSo if you add settings you should always stick em at the end?
22:48:39Mikachuamiconn: we could make it 'off', 'on in some', 'on' :)
22:49:05amiconnMikachu: Which "some"?
22:49:11linuxstbpaulheu: Yes, unless you increment the CONFIG_BLOCK_VERSION. There's a comment near the top of settings.c that explains it.
22:49:15Mikachuones that you would look at without interacting
22:49:18Mikachulike plasma, fire, oscilloscope
22:49:19amiconnAgain, for me it doesn't make any sense to have such setting in the core
22:49:51Mikachubut i think i made it so tetrox times the backlight out when paused, but not while playing
22:50:04paulheuah, ok.. I will change that then..
22:50:08Mikachuotoh, plugins can still override it even with the setting
22:50:33 Quit JoeBorn ("Leaving")
22:50:43amiconnMikachu: Yes, but then all plugins *have* to override it if they don't want the global setting
22:50:44sharpei'm almost done with the packaged wps patch... i suppose...
22:51:06Mikachuamiconn: hm, looks like it would require some further thought :)
22:51:13paulheu'Problem' is you either midify each plugin or have a global setting
22:51:14Mikachu22:51 is not the time for it for me
22:51:20paulheuI would opt for the global setting
22:51:52paulheuIt could be inetgrated with the 'access playback' patch?!
22:52:26paulheubut then some plugins define their own keys whcih makes this a mess..
22:52:41linuxstbPersonally, I'm happy with the current timeout system. On the ipod I can just touch the wheel to turn on the backlight, and there is the new "swallow first button" option for other targets.
22:52:53paulheuso in my view it is best to have a global setting, at least that gives you a choice either way
22:52:59amiconnpaulheu: Having a global setting (1) bloats the core code without reason. (2) *still* requires modifying each plugin - but this time even those that don't want the plugin backlight setting as well. (3) May still not be what the user wants
22:53:50linuxstbpaulheu's patch doesn't touch any plugins. The backlight is set in plugin.c before/after the plugin is loaded.
22:53:55paulheuif all plugins follow teh global setting you only have to set the ones you want to keep default..
22:54:48amiconnpaulheu: There is a number of plugins where backlight always on makes no sense. These would have to undo the global setting
22:55:04paulheulinuxstb: so all I have to move is {1, S_O(backlight_timeout_plugin), false, "backlight timeout plugin", off_on },
22:55:13paulheuan that shoud be OK?
22:55:30*amiconn is now forced to update deutsch.lang properly :/
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22:56:47Mikachuin the voltage deltas, does min stand for minutes? (in View Battery)
22:58:08linuxstbpaulheu: Yes, I think so.
22:58:30paulheuOK.. done that.. I'll upload the new patch..
22:59:33sharpewell... that's not good... "excess elements in struct initializer"
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23:03:30Zoide7777amiconn: do you still need a 4g grayscale tester?
23:04:02amiconnFirst question: Does a current cvs build work correctly for you?
23:04:19Zoide7777amiconn: let me see, just a minute
23:04:26amiconnI.e., is the screen displayed as it should? No shifted, mirrored etc graphics?
23:04:26 Nick Zoide7777 is now known as Zoide777 (
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23:06:10paulheuKee.. new patch up..
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23:08:16sharpewow, i'm going to feel really bad if what i did fixed my problem
23:09:06Zoide777amiconn: it's fine
23:09:12sharpei don't like my ide anymore.
23:10:29amiconnZoide777: Ok, so I'll prepare a custom build for you. It has some more changes in the lcd driver, and a working display flip implementation.
23:10:47sharpenobody ever asks me what's wrong anymore.
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23:14:04Zoide777amiconn: what is display flip for? belt-clip use or something like that?
23:14:10Zoide777sharpe: ?
23:14:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:14:22sharpelol, i knew somebody would say something... :)
23:14:39Zoide777sharpe: you like attention, don't you ;)
23:14:52sharpenah, just hate being ignored :D
23:14:53realnick2It works nice for the hh1x0 remote - it has the wire in the wrong side imho
23:15:02amiconnE.g. if you put your iPod on the desk and use it with earphone. You'll have a slightly longer range, and no bending of the cable
23:15:12amiconnOr, as you say, belt clip. or....
23:15:38midkayleft-handed pacman..
23:15:41sharpeit's weird, when everything else compiles, doom doesn't. when doom compiles, something else doesn't.
23:16:01 Quit Genre9mp3 ()
23:16:02midkayamiconn, cool @ lang update. :)
23:16:19sharpeand i'm not doing anything to doom either.
23:16:40midkaysharpe, haha.
23:16:55Zoide777or if you're doing a psych experiment where you wear the glasses that make everything look upside down...
23:17:30Zoide777amiconn: btw good job fixing the old lcd bugs for 4g ipod! no more non-refreshed strip at the bottom
23:17:54amiconnYeah, the update function was quite buggy
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23:18:37sharpemaybe if nobody notices that warning, nobody will pay attention to it.
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23:18:48Zoide777and Slasheri: kick-ass job w/ tagcache!
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23:19:32 Nick Doomed is now known as Doomed9 (
23:19:47Zoide777amiconn: now the build beggars that read irc logs won't leave you alone... :D
23:19:50BHSPitLappywhoever "manually activated" me for the forums, thanks...
23:20:25 Join enzyme [0] (
23:20:37sharpethat's why you replace it with a destructive build after you're done :D
23:20:52enzymehi i have a problem
23:21:01sharpewhat is your problem?
23:21:58enzymemy ipod5g hard drive keeps turning on for about 15seconds then turns offs for about 30seconds
23:22:12sharpeduring audio playback?
23:22:34enzymedisc mode
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23:22:57Zoide777enzyme: is it connected to the ac adapter?
23:22:58linuxstbenzyme: That's nothing to do with Rockbox - disk mode is part of the Apple firmware.
23:22:59 Quit solexx_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:22:59sharpedoes it show as a drive in windows?
23:23:08Zoide777amiconn: ok, what should I do now? booted fine and seems to work
23:23:15enzymeyes it does
23:23:19paulheuactually the upside down option was very nice (and built for) the archos recorder which has both power and line input on the bottomside of the unit. Using this option woud allow te unit to still stand up so you could see the display better
23:23:24paulheuor something like that..
23:23:37sharpeis there any problem with it spinning up/down?
23:23:40amiconnZoide777: No graphcs shifted? Everything fully visible from to to bottom?
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23:24:17enzymesharpe - nope
23:24:36amiconnThen go to General settings->Display->LCD setting->Upside down and enable it
23:24:41sharpeis it really a problem then? :)
23:24:50Doomed9upside down mode is cool
23:24:54Zoide777amiconn: everything's fine except for upside down mode
23:25:03amiconnWhat happens?
23:25:03Zoide777amiconn: the display is shifted to the left and wraps into the left side
23:25:04enzymesharpe: yeah but i cant load any songs on it
23:25:30amiconnHmm. Can you tell how much it is shifted?
23:25:32sharpedo you have itunes installed?
23:25:36Zoide777amiconn: and the Play and Menu keys don't get swapped (though scrolling direction is as expected)
23:25:46amiconnBtw, it's not shifted vertically?
23:25:47enzymeno i dont use itunes any more
23:25:53sharpeso it's not?
23:25:56Zoide777amiconn: about 2/3 of a letter width with the default font
23:26:07Zoide777amiconn: horizontally
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23:26:28amiconnNo, play and menu don't get switched. I'm not sure whether this would be a good idea, as they are specially marked
23:26:32Nvhi all
23:26:42amiconnZoide777: Hmm, so it's 4 pixels...
23:26:59Zoide777amiconn: more precisely, it's shifted the exact width of the scrollbar in the file manager view, minus the line that makes a the right side of the scrollbar
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23:27:13enzymeno it isnt
23:27:25enzymesharpe: no it isnt
23:27:47sharpeokay, well, it either is a problem with your windows, or with the apple firmware on it...
23:27:48Doomed9no reason to update my rockbox yet
23:28:20Zoide777amiconn: well, it's a bit confusing for the clickwheel ipods, since when you hold it upside down then the Play and Menu positions get switched
23:28:32amiconnYes I know
23:28:38Doomed9wow wma codec
23:28:43amiconnThe mini has the same layout, just a bit smaller
23:28:51enzymeok if i have a bad apple fw on it where could i get a new fw for it
23:29:00 Quit paulheu ()
23:30:16Zoide777amiconn: looking closely at the screen, i can make out the pixels, and it does seem like it is shifted by 4 pixels "left" if holding the player upside down
23:30:23sharpewell, i'd image it'd be something with windows... but you could try updating/restoring your ipod with the ipod updater, aptly named, from apple...
23:31:39Zoide777amiconn: isn't it inconsistent, though, that FF and REW do get swapped, while Play and Menu do not?
23:32:03 Part enzyme
23:32:09sharpewow, deja vu
23:32:16amiconnWell, FF and REW look like their opposite when flipped. Play and Menu don't
23:32:27sharpeof compiling rockbox in cygwin and irc... that's sad.
23:32:32Zoide777amiconn: that's true
23:32:49amiconnMaybe I should switch them. That's quite simple, if we want it
23:33:00amiconnThe lcd controller thing is much more difficult
23:33:04Zoide777amiconn: one thing I would change is the default contrast for grayscale ipod. now it's at 40, which is too high imo (try playing Xobox, for example). maybe 35 would be a better default?
23:33:17amiconnI'll make a new test build (rockbox.ipod only this time)
23:33:37amiconnZoide777: I was thinking about the opposite... 40 is too low for my mini
23:33:43amiconnI have it set to 42
23:33:58amiconnMaybe the default should be different for mini and 'standard'
23:34:08BHSPitLappyMAYBE it should be easily adjusted?
23:34:14sharpemaybe a random number would fair better?
23:34:21Zoide777hehe... well it isn't that hard to adjust
23:34:21amiconnThe larger LCD has a different duty cycle, so it might need a different default contrast
23:34:35Zoide777it's certainly too dark at 40 to play xobox
23:34:41Zoide777(on 4g gray)
23:35:01Zoide777and everything looks too "blue"
23:35:02amiconnYeah, and 40 is so low on mini that it makes light grey appear white
23:35:58BHSPitLappythe thing about button swapping shouldn't apply to the 3G, right
23:35:58Zoide777what ever happened to the piezo experiments? any progress lately?">
23:37:29amiconnpreglow did these experiments
23:37:32Zoide777amiconn: perfect! no shift
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23:38:18kkurbjunamiconn, do you know anything about changing the compact flash cards in ipod mini's?
23:38:23amiconnZoide777: Hmm, interesting. It means that our LCD controller is not the HD66753. It's just very close. Maybe HD66754 if that exists
23:38:37amiconnkkurbjun: It's a microdrive, not a cf card
23:38:47kkurbjunyes, but it's a cf connection
23:39:04amiconncf type2 (i.e. 5mm thick instead of 3.3mm)
23:39:05kkurbjunI can plug the microdrive into a reader and it will read on my computer
23:39:18amiconnMaybe a cf card will work.
23:39:18Zoide777amiconn: does the controller difference imply other things as well or just the shift?
23:39:35Zoide777amiconn: btw, lcd inverse mode works, and it's very cool
23:40:01kkurbjunwell, sort of, the drive is failing, and I've tried cf cards but I can't seem to get them to be recognised.. I guess you havn't messed around with it at all then..
23:40:12amiconnDepends on whether the original microdrive has a custom firmware with some special bits which are checked by the apple loader
23:40:29amiconnZoide777: thx :)
23:40:44Zoide777amiconn: np..
23:41:20Zoide777amiconn: strange... in the Upside Down selection screen, you can only change the selection by moving left for No, right for Yes, but you can't keep on scrolling in one direction to get both options (like you can with the other rockbox settings)
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23:41:35kkurbjunthe mini doesn't follow the cf specs exactly which is part of the problem, and I tried correcting that but ti didn't seem to help. I see, well I guess I'll just get rid of this mini then; dont' have a drive to fix it with
23:42:07amiconnZoide777: It's somewhat a hit and miss.... sometimes it works, sometimes not. The setting function is the same as for all other yes/no settings
23:42:19sharpewouldn't it suck if my plugin interfered with doom's compiling...
23:42:33amiconnBtw, thanks for testing that stuff. I'll do some fixup to my modification, then commit that
23:42:58Zoide777no problem, it's quite fun :)
23:43:56kkurbjunsharpe, what patch are you working on?
23:44:44sharpeone for a packaged wps type functionality
23:45:00kkurbjunamiconn, does rockbox's bootloader replace the apple one?
23:45:12kkurbjunin flash that is
23:45:24amiconnWe don't touch the flash at all on iPod
23:45:27Zoide777is there a way of getting a video capture of the ipod screen on rockbox?
23:45:41amiconnZoide777: Info->Debug->Screendump.
23:45:50Zoide777i put lcd inverse mode, ate some space in xobox, and there's a strange repeating moving square
23:45:51kkurbjunI see, and I'm guessing there is no intention to either?
23:45:51amiconnCalling that once enabled screendump mode
23:45:52Zoide777seems like a bug
23:46:15amiconnThat's a driving quirk of the lcd
23:46:20amiconnNo bug in rockbox
23:46:30amiconnYou wouldn't see it in a screendump
23:47:04amiconnBtw, do you also sometimes get a dark horizontal line on the LCD when booting?
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23:47:23Zoide777ok, i got a video from my digicam, let me put it somewhere
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23:51:49sharpewell that kind of proves that my plufin does interfere with doom.
23:51:55amiconnSeems we're doing something wrong on shutdown. I bet we need to shut down the LCD controller properly
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23:53:17ssnajpercan anyone tell me if the ipod 3g rockbox works?
23:55:26Zoide777amiconn: hadn't there been some commits recently that supposedly fixed the lcd shutdown?
23:55:38amiconnYes, for colour iPods...
23:56:07 Part paugh ("Leaving")
23:56:27Zoide777ah, isee

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