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#rockbox log for 2006-04-03

00:00:11Cassandralinuxstb, I'm saying that there are a lot of dependencies in the code on the default font being 8 pixels high.
00:00:21Genre9mp3XavierGr, how many lines you get with that?
00:00:30 Join RaeNye [0] (
00:00:33linuxstbNo - there are dependencies on the built-in system font being 8 pixels high.
00:00:44CassandraOr rather that sorting them all out is a non-trivial and non-urgent task.
00:00:47linuxstbI'm talking about the font that user can change.
00:01:18 Quit petur ()
00:01:27 Join damaki__ [0] (
00:02:23CassandraWe seem to have wondered a bit though.
00:02:35Mikachuboth wondered and wandered
00:02:38CassandraI still have to figure out how to sort out the WPSes in CVS.
00:02:59RaeNyeDoes anyone know how to prevent alsa conf.c segfault when running the uisim on linux ?
00:03:08CassandraI propose to make subdirs below /wps
00:03:08preglowwe do want to support more than 16 bits output precision in the future, yes?
00:03:16Cassandrapreglow, yes.
00:03:23preglowthen we need to have a more precise pcmbuf anyway
00:04:16Genre9mp3insted of having different versions of one wps, why not use a single wps file that stores all the code and a folder with all the required bitmaps?
00:04:24CassandraFor text based wpses I propose a "xl" dir ("2l" being wpses that require at least 2 lines, "3l" being at least 3 lines etc.)
00:04:54*amiconn updated the device chart
00:04:57sharpenickelodeon's kid's choice awards is on again.
00:05:10CassandraFor graphical WPSes 'wxhxd(c|m)'
00:05:16Cassandraw = width
00:05:20Cassandrah= height
00:05:23Cassandrad = bit depth
00:05:34Cassandrac= colour, m = monochrome
00:05:53Cassandra(c|m) not necessary for bit depth 1, obviously.
00:06:17CassandraSo a H100 WPS is "160x128x1"
00:06:33*RaeNye wonders whether he is being ignored because of breaking some channel rule
00:06:55CassandraAn ipod Nano WPS is "176x132x16c"
00:07:19Mikachudoesn't the depth imply colorness?
00:07:20midkayCassandra, well, there's no such thing as "16m" is there?
00:07:29midkayit must be c if it's 16..
00:07:33sharpeso, essentially... the way images are generally defined, 64x32x24?
00:07:34midkayso you don't really need C or M..
00:07:37Cassandramidkay, true. but there might be 8c and 8m
00:07:48Mikachuyou have 8bit paletted targets?
00:07:55CassandraNot currently, no.,
00:08:00amiconnWell, in theory there might even be a 3c
00:08:08Mikachubut i guess you have a point there, it could be anything of either
00:08:20Mikachuyou can have a grayscale with 16 million values if you wanted
00:08:20 Quit RaeNye ("CGI:IRC 0.5.7 (2005/06/19)")
00:08:25CassandraMaybe we should assume depth < 8 = mono depth => 8 = colour
00:08:31amiconnCurrently it makes no sense, as we have 1m, 2m or 16c
00:08:55amiconnIf the gmini 2xx series ever gets support, we would also have 4m
00:09:19Cassandraamiconn, I think my last statement is the way to go then.
00:09:35CassandraWe're unlikely to get a 256 greyscale display, aren't we.
00:09:47CassandraOr a 256 colour one, actually.
00:09:57midkayno chance in hell, i think.. :)
00:09:57amiconn..or (yuck!) the grayscale lib gets into the core, it would be 5.04m
00:10:59CassandraHas anyone ever seen a 256 colour/greyscale display on an MP3 player
00:11:03amiconnReally, you can#T give an exact bit depth for the highest possible number of grayscale with the grayscale lib
00:11:25amiconn5bits would allow 32 shades, but the grayscale lib can do a maximum of 33 shades...
00:11:35midkayCassandra, no, i don't think they exist..
00:11:39Cassandraamiconn, I think we can round under those circumstances.
00:11:45 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
00:12:13Mikachui don't think there is a bitmap standard for 5 bits
00:12:26CassandraOK, in which case lets say "wxhxd" where w = width, h = height, d = depth, d=8 undefined currently.
00:12:44amiconnMikachu: Well, in fact there is, but PC software tends to ignore it
00:12:46sharpewhat about an emulator for the altair 8800? :)
00:12:51Cassandrad< 8 = mono, d > 8 = colour/
00:13:13amiconn.gif files can handle any depth from 1 to 8. PC software usually only offers 1, 4, 8
00:13:59Mikachuah, by bitmap i meant windows bitmaps, which was probably a bit stupid
00:14:10amiconnyou meant BMP
00:14:37amiconn'bitmap' has a more general meaning for me
00:14:43sharpegah, my eye has been twitching all day...
00:14:49Mikachuyeah, i'm just tired :)
00:15:04*linuxstb notices it is now 00.15 CET...
00:15:20Mikachusince i have a lecture at 8.15, i'm going to bed now
00:16:19amiconnt0mas! Bagder!!
00:16:36*Bagder checks
00:16:45XavierGrSo we have a feature freeze?
00:17:02 Quit damaki_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:17:18amiconnBuilds hanging with neither t0mas nor Bagder around is annoying...
00:17:25CassandraSo, the dir structute would have /wps/112x64x1/boxes.wps, /wps/112x64x1/boxes/ for graphics /wps/160x128x1/boxes.wps /wps/160x128x1/boxes.rwps and so on and so forth.
00:17:36Mikachubut Bagder is around
00:17:37Bagderbut it is a strange problem
00:17:42CassandraEach resolution requiring its own independent bitmaps.
00:17:46Bagderits not meant to be like this
00:17:56CassandraIs there a more sensible wiay to do this?
00:18:54CassandraXavierGr, sort of. I really have to try to commit this thing we've been discussing for the last hour, since 3.0 will contain WPSes that shouldn't be there otherwise.
00:19:22*XavierGr dance the "Feature-freeze" Dance!!!! :D
00:19:32midkayHEY. i still have 8 hours to bloat rockbox!
00:19:38midkay8h 41m!
00:19:39CassandraOh f***.
00:19:48XavierGrmidkay: Bloater! :P
00:19:50Mikachuyou should make the date secret next time
00:19:56midkayXavierGr, PartyPooper!!
00:20:05Mikachuor just say 'okay, now it's a feature freeze!!1'
00:20:17Galoisis the battery indicator a feature??
00:20:20CassandraNow I've remembered why I wanted to stop calling rwps rwps.
00:20:35CassandraSo that WPSes and RWPSes wouldn't share a bitmap directory.
00:20:41MikachuGalois: uh, you think it got there by accident?
00:20:54*Cassandra swears. Why does this whole thing have to be so bloody complex.
00:21:17GaloisI mean, it would be nice if the ipod non-5g got a working indicator before the freeze
00:21:19midkayCassandra, what about keep .wps and .rwps, but have .rwps load from a different folder, e.g. filename_r/ ?
00:21:46midkayGalois, i think something as small as a battery indicator could still be added during the freeze..
00:21:50midkayyou could almost call it a bug..
00:21:52Cassandramidkay: I suspect /filiename/r/ would be better, since it doesn't restrict the wps namespace.
00:22:04midkayCassandra, aha. that sounds better.
00:22:10CassandraBut then the wps and rwps loader code has to be different.
00:22:23 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
00:22:47CassandraI wonder i
00:23:21CassandraI wonder if we should just insist that you can't have wps and rwps files with the same name in the same directory.
00:23:46 Quit bluebrother^ ("Leaving")
00:23:58CassandraSo boxes.rwps -> boxes-r.rwps
00:24:48CassandraBut then that makes rwps selection less user friendly.
00:25:25 Join ashridah [0] (
00:25:29 Join Lost-ash [0] (
00:25:41 Quit Lost-ash (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:25:48CassandraThe other alternative is to have the zip builder script parse the wps files and only copy across bitmaps referenced in the (r)wps.
00:26:34linuxstbI've also thought about that solution. I think it could work.
00:27:00Cassandra(Bear in mind that we're still ending up with the same directory structure as before on the target. This is only about how we store the files in CVS.
00:27:36Cassandralinuxstb, OK - we'll go with that, pain in the arse though it is to code.
00:28:16CassandraActually, if we do it that way, we don't need the bitmap dirs to be in the resolution subdirs.
00:29:09linuxstbMaybe we could have a naming convention similar to the bitmaps in Rockbox itself - something like boxes.220x176x16.wps which is then copied to the target as boxes.wps
00:29:11CassandraIn fact, get rid of the damn subdir idea already. Just use a field in WPSLIST to store our "2l" or "160x128x1" designation for each WPS.
00:29:35CassandraThat's kind of what WPSLIST is supposed to be for anyway.
00:30:18Cassandralinuxstb: Sorry - your way is right.
00:30:24linuxstbSo a <wps> entry could have Source: boxes.220x176x16.wps and Name: boxes.wps for example?
00:30:27CassandraI was talking crap there for a moment.
00:31:25CassandraWell ideally it'd have wps: boxes.wps and the script would intelligently work out that it actually needed to copy boxes.220x176x16.wps to that file name.
00:31:49CassandraThen if it couldn't find the source, it'd know that that WPS didn't have support for that resolution.
00:32:49CassandraRight. I *think* I know what I'm doing now.
00:32:56CassandraThis is good.
00:33:54amiconnBagder: You could add a mini (1g or 2g) sim now...
00:35:44CassandraHmm. Text wpsen need to have the minimum number of lines in the WPSLIST. Then all WPSes smaller enough to fit on a particular platform can be copied.
00:36:11 Quit JoeBorn ("Leaving")
00:36:43CassandraAnd if they fit on the remote display they get copied twice, once as .wps, once as .rwps.
00:36:51CassandraAnd everything just works.
00:36:54CassandraOh good.
00:36:56amiconnCassandra: How do you decide whether a text wps is small enough?
00:37:07amiconnThe number of displayable lines depends on the font...
00:37:09webguest26ew, yellow
00:37:42Cassandraamiconn: I was going to say assume the default.
00:37:58CassandraBut that makes no sense, because you can go smaller than the default.
00:38:06CassandraHell, always copy text wpses.
00:38:19Cassandra(Except then that doesn't work for player.)
00:38:49 Quit Genre9mp3 ()
00:39:01Cassandra(Also some text WPSes are probably too big for recorder too. F***.)
00:39:04linuxstbA text wps will (I think) need a minimum number of lines - we could compare that with the maximum lines available on the target (i.e. the number of lines with the smallest available font). But maybe that will always be true...
00:39:26CassandraSmallest font is currently 6px high.
00:39:29 Join ScoTTie_ [0] (n=scott@unaffiliated/scottie)
00:39:41Cassandralinuxstb: Yeah, lets do that.
00:39:47CassandraBest we can do, I feel.
00:40:58amiconnlinuxstb: It is possible to fix the mirrored original firmware on greyscale ipod.
00:41:10linuxstbIs it an easy fix?
00:41:15BHSPitLappyI thought there was a 5px font
00:41:16preglowthis new crossfeed will be even faster than the old one
00:41:20amiconnUnfortunately there are 2 solutions, one of which is hackish and the other requires quite some work
00:41:36 Nick BoD[] is now known as BoD[Zzzz] (
00:41:38*Cassandra still wants to make a 5 px high font, just for a laugh.
00:41:51Cassandra(It's so small you can't do non-capitals.)
00:41:58amiconnThe apple firmware uses reverse control of the lcd, i.e. it switches scan direction and writes the GRAM top-down (within a line)
00:42:36amiconnThe hackish solution would be to keep our lcd driver as-is, and switch scan direction before loading apple fw
00:42:52amiconnThe clean solution would be to use the same method as apple in our lcd driver
00:43:11BHSPitLappyCassandra: look at "Tiny-Prop-5"
00:43:26amiconnIt's straightforward, but involves changing the bit orientation in the blocked pixels
00:43:42preglowany advantages to using apple's way?
00:44:03amiconnIt doesn't really matter, both ways should be equally fast
00:44:40amiconnIt's just that with our way, lsb is left in each 4-pixel block, and msb is right. In the apple way its reversed
00:44:50BHSPitLappyI have 46 Lines of text on my 5G iPod with that font...
00:44:58BHSPitLappyand that's WITH a status bar
00:45:18XavierGrBHSPitLappy: Can you read it though?
00:45:26CassandraBHSPitLappy, oh, that'll save me the effort then.
00:45:30amiconnThat means chaging the whole lcd-2bit-horz.c, the grayscale lcd-ipod.c, and bmp2rb -f 6 output
00:45:40BHSPitLappyXavierGr: it's barely legible
00:45:48BHSPitLappyXavierGr: definitely not for in-car use :)
00:46:22webguest26what's the largest font in rockbox, and how many lines does that give on 5g?
00:46:34webguest26(just curious, not particular important)
00:47:02amiconnThe largest supplied font is 14px
00:47:03BHSPitLappy16pt I think
00:47:13BHSPitLappyI'm using 16
00:47:17amiconn..but has larger ones
00:47:25amiconnI'm using 24px on H300 in the car
00:47:31BHSPitLappy14 lines
00:47:41CassandraMy Nano's screen appears to have been killed while bringing it back from Sweden.
00:48:00BHSPitLappysue the UN
00:48:18ashridahsue apple, and settle by making them put rockbox on every unit
00:48:25webguest26assuming you can manage to restore
00:48:27Cassandrawebguest26, no receipt.
00:48:57CassandraCould just try sending it back to Apple, on the grounds they haven't been selling them for 12 months yet.
00:49:28 Quit ScoTTie (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:49:55CassandraIn fact, I think I'll do that.
00:49:59preglowCassandra: definitely worth a shot, yes
00:50:03amiconnlinuxstb, preglow: I verified this by making a test bootloader which just switches the lcd data entry direction. All garbled display in our bootloader (of course), but apple fw displayed just fine...
00:50:17BHSPitLappydoes anyone forsee an mp4 player for the 5G in rockbox :P
00:50:25CassandraStill, that's bloody annoying.
00:50:31preglowCassandra: agreed
00:51:00preglowamiconn: well, i don't really think using apple's approach in our driver would be all bad
00:51:09preglowamiconn: if it saves work and has no disadvantages, i think it sounds ok
00:51:17BHSPitLappyI want a hacked bootloader that upside-down's the 5G's retailos
00:51:37 Quit Kohlrabi ("Fast alle Menschen sind Regenwürmer")
00:51:49 Join pussfeller [0] (
00:52:08*amiconn doesn't get the meaning of preglow's comment
00:52:26amiconnDo you think we should use apple's format, or not?
00:52:49BHSPitLappywhat is Bar Selector?
00:53:11pussfelleri just installed rb on my photo ipod, which themes are compatible? i tried some on but they don't quite look right
00:53:15 Quit matsl (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:53:25 Join JdGordon [0] (
00:53:30BHSPitLappypussfeller: any themes made for 220x176 resolution
00:53:55pussfellerok, thanks
00:54:19webguest26which is to say, not a lot
00:54:35preglowamiconn: i don't see how you can interpret that as anything else than "yes, if it's less work and has no disadvantages, use apple's way"
00:54:51pussfelleryes i see a bunch for bigger 5g screen
00:54:52Cassandraamiconn, sounds like the simpler solution to me in that once it's working, it should "just work" with no edge cases.
00:54:57BHSPitLappypreglow: he said it's MORE work
00:55:03BHSPitLappythan the hackish way
00:55:08linuxstbamiconn: My instinct is that it makes sense to use Apple's format. But is it worth the effort to switch now?
00:55:24preglowdoesn't sound like too much work?
00:55:42linuxstbamiconn: I think only you can answer the question - as you're doing the work. I don't think anyone would object to either choice.
00:55:48webguest26sounds like it'd avoid some complications in the end
00:56:19linuxstbThe only complication is a need to reprogram the LCD before starting the apple firmware.
00:56:26amiconnWell, apple's way means more work, but less special-casing in the bootloader
00:56:36amiconnIt also means deviating from what ipl does
00:56:48 Join TCK [0] (
00:57:12 Quit ender` (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:57:16amiconn(not that it matters much - the lcd controller is documented)
00:57:32linuxstbDo you know if the same applies to the 1g-3g LCD?
00:57:40amiconnI don't know
00:57:51BHSPitLappyso... what is "Bar Selector"?
00:57:52amiconnThey use the same controller
00:57:54BHSPitLappy(in lcd settings)
00:58:12webguest26BHSPitLappy: try it?
00:58:21BHSPitLappyI mean "Line Selector"
00:58:22amiconnI wouldn't expect that apple switched formats, but who knows...
00:58:41linuxstbamiconn: No, it would seem very unlikely.
00:58:42*BHSPitLappy just realized what it does
00:58:46webguest26BHSPitLappy: well, it's a pretty simple option, and trying it is much easier than explaining
00:59:07BHSPitLappywebguest26: there was a point where it didn't work, and I tried it then, but not now
00:59:10BHSPitLappybut now I tried it :P
00:59:46amiconnlinuxstb: I wonder why ipl didn't use the apple format. It seems that a substantial part of information was gained by reversing the oriinal firmware
00:59:57Bagderlots of yellow
01:00:20amiconnBagder: Yes, blame Slasheri. Commit - and run....
01:00:32Bagderwe should beat him with a stick!
01:01:12linuxstbamiconn: I think the IPL people normally start by reversing the bootloader/diagnostics mode part of the firmware - this is much smaller than retailos. Maybe the diagnostics mode uses the LCD differently (different development team?).
01:02:07linuxstbBut yes, it's odd.
01:02:27amiconnBtw, I don't think that our bootloader initialising things disturbs retailos by itself
01:02:59amiconnIt seems to me that retailos doesn't init much by itself, but instead relies on things being initialised by the flash loader
01:02:59BHSPitLappyhey, I was wondering something earlier...
01:03:14BHSPitLappythe rockbox loader is a minimal rockbox, right?
01:03:21amiconnSo, if we change hardware status, that is what disturbs retailos...
01:03:41linuxstbamiconn: Yes - this LCD issue seems to prove that retailos doesn't do much initialising itself.
01:04:11linuxstbBHSPitLappy: It is, yes.
01:05:02BHSPitLappylinuxstb: in that sense, since the bootloader can boot linux or retailos... why couldn't rockbox?
01:05:25BHSPitLappyis it just a matter of "it can, but why?"?
01:06:02JdGordonmorning guys
01:06:11BHSPitLappymorning guy
01:06:33linuxstbI agree it would be useful - Rockbox on other platforms already has the ability to boot itself. But no-one's done it yet for the ipods.
01:07:16 Part raf82
01:10:49 Join gtkspert [0] (
01:11:09amiconnlinuxstb, preglow: I was wrong - on mini there is a disadvantage in using apple's way
01:12:10amiconnWith our current way, flipped lcd mode has a slight disadvantage on mini because of the necessary bitshifting. With apple's way, the bitshifting would be necessary in non-flipped mode...
01:12:20sharpeokay... how about a c64 emulator?
01:12:47Bagderand we have 43 builds in the table
01:13:19 Join Febs [0] (
01:13:55ivan`i know this is #rockbox but does anyone want to convince me not to get an X5 and use stock?
01:14:15ivan`only probs are crappy fonts and file extensions everywhere
01:14:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:14:47linuxstbsharpe: Go go go...
01:14:50*webguest26 blinks
01:15:37Bagderivan`: hacking and using Rockbox is more fun, but I don't think you'll find us trying very hard to convince users
01:15:40sharpethink it's a ... reasonable idea?
01:16:14Bagderideas are easy
01:16:21Bagderdoing things are harder
01:16:51sharpemeaning, should i try?
01:16:55linuxstbThe ipods have taken over... 17 ipod builds, 15 Archos, 8 iriver and 3 iaudio.
01:18:17amiconnlinuxstb: Hmm, but if we want the bootloader to be able to boot retailos and look clean at the same time, we have no choice.
01:18:18*Bagder goes to sleep
01:18:38sharpequick, what's a topic i could write a research paper on, that isn't american or british, so i can get started on the c64 emulator? :D
01:18:47 Join warthawg [0] (
01:18:53linuxstbamiconn: Could we load retailos, clear the LCD, reset it, and then start retailos?
01:19:16amiconnIf we keep our format, but switch the lcd before loading retailos, the bootloader display would look garbled. We could clear the screen to avoid that, but then nothing is displayed before retailos takes over
01:19:18 Quit mikearthur ("Konversation terminated!")
01:19:27Cassandralinuxstb, if it were possible, wouldn't that be really slow?
01:19:29amiconnGah, this is nasty
01:20:11JdGordonare the sim and boot builds really needed in the cvs build table??
01:20:13amiconnlinuxstb: Perhaps, but I'm not sure how the bootloader actually starts retailos
01:21:21linuxstbIt simply memmoves it to the start of DRAM and then branches to it. It has already been loaded into RAM by the apple flash bootloader.
01:21:34amiconnIt memmoves something, then returns an entry pint address, but to which caller?
01:21:41amiconnThis return is from main()...
01:21:44CassandraI'm going to sort out tomorrow, I think.
01:21:57linuxstbamiconn: That returns back to crt0.S
01:22:06linuxstbI forget why...
01:22:13CassandraTechnically this is a bug fix, since Rockbox installing incompatible WPSes is a bug.
01:22:15JdGordonhey, Cassandra, can u update your rockbox updater?
01:22:20amiconncrt0.S is used for bootloader?
01:22:23amiconnAH, yes
01:22:28 Join damaki_ [0] (
01:22:31CassandraJdGordon, I'm intending to bring out a new one for 3.0, yes.
01:22:41CassandraWould you like the latest .cfg file?
01:23:01JdGordonwith the option to not update certain files?
01:23:28 Join Kyomi [0] (
01:24:02webguest26Cassandra: there's a buglet - you can pick release for h1xx
01:24:36Cassandrawebguest26, Heh?
01:24:45CassandraJdGordon, maybe.
01:24:50CassandraBut probably not.
01:25:05webguest26Cassandra: by pressing up-arrow on the version-select screen
01:25:11DBUGEnqueued KICK XavierGr
01:25:11XavierGr[02:16] linuxstb The ipods have taken over... 17 ipod builds, 15 Archos, 8 iriver and 3 iaudio. <−−−− They flooded the world and now Rockbox! :P
01:25:38Cassandrawebguest26, oh right.
01:25:58CassandraWell that sounds like a wxWidgets bug to me.
01:26:07CassandraThanks for the report.
01:26:17webguest26sounds likely
01:27:21linuxstbCassandra: Are you planning on adding your installer to CVS?
01:27:47Cassandralinuxstb, definite
01:28:27linuxstbCool. When you do, I'll see if it compiles for Mac OS X. Hopefully you didn't make it too WIndows-specific...
01:29:21Cassandralinuxstb, I tried not to.
01:29:34ashridah#ifeq USER linuxstb #define ENABLEWINDOWSISMS 1
01:29:59ashridahCassandra: how was working with wxWidgets anyway?
01:30:06ashridahi've always been meaning to poke at it
01:30:30muesliii"Properly ifdef H300 video code, fix commented line handling rockbox volume" ->video support in sight?
01:31:12 Quit ashridah ("darnit, uni :(")
01:32:28KyomiShouldn't video be not far off since Doom is basically an interactive video?
01:32:32kkurbjunI guess I should be more specific in my descripions : )
01:32:56Kyomikkurbjun: The addon thing works fine :)
01:33:15linuxstbkkurbjun: No, people just need to look at the "where" column as well as "what" :)
01:33:17KyomiAlthough... can someone.. for the love of god.. increase the files in dir buffer to above 400?
01:33:27linuxstbKyomi: You can do it yourself...
01:33:42linuxstb(it's a setting)
01:33:48KyomiI know that
01:33:52XavierGrkkurbjun: yo said that doom has sound, well not in my case. I can't hear anything
01:33:54KyomiBut it doesn't go above 400
01:33:58KyomiIt stops
01:34:00muesliiilinuxstb lol..true ;)
01:34:21KyomiXavierGr: Sound - yes, Music - no
01:34:27kkurbjunXavierGr, What player are you using?
01:34:31linuxstbKyomi: That sounds like a bug then.
01:34:41KyomiIf it's an iPod you're SOL mate
01:35:05XavierGr;atest build
01:35:06kkurbjunKyomi, the limit on addons is a problem with doom not the file limit in rockbox
01:35:22Kyomikkurbjun: I wasn't talking about that limit ^^;
01:35:29KyomiI can deal with that limit with copy and paste
01:35:41linuxstbKyomi: Do you mean you can't change the setting, or that you can still only see 400 files after you change the setting?
01:35:46KyomiI'd just like the "Max Files in Dir Browser" option to go above 400
01:36:07Kyomilinuxstb: I mean you can change that setting.. but it stops at 400 and wont go any higher
01:36:18KyomiI can set the max files in playlist to 20,000 fine though
01:36:21kkurbjunXavierGr, are you talking about the sim?
01:36:28XavierGrno the target
01:36:35XavierGrdo you have sound?
01:36:38KyomiJust the max files in dir browser doesn't go above 400... which it should
01:36:38kkurbjunI don't know, it works fine for me
01:36:50kkurbjunKyomi, sound works for you in doom correct?
01:37:21KyomiWhenever I open a door or something like that.. it hangs for a sec then picks back up again
01:37:29linuxstbKyomi: It goes up to 10,000 for me... I assume you are using a H300?
01:37:31KyomiOnly sometimes though
01:37:36Kyomilinuxstb: H320
01:38:02 Quit damaki__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:38:07kkurbjunKyomi, yes, I noticed that, all the sound effects are cached, I'm guessing that in the level precache code it's missing some lumps
01:38:22KyomiIt's not a big problem though
01:38:27linuxstbKyomi: Are you using an unmodified CVS build?
01:38:31KyomiThe only thing I'm having trouble with is the key setup
01:38:51KyomiDid you know if you press right and left at the same time.. it switches weapons?
01:39:30Kyomilinuxstb: I should probably go check it again I just tried it like friday
01:39:32kkurbjunyou're probably just pressing the up button as well
01:39:36KyomiI'm using the experimental build
01:39:43 Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@
01:39:55KyomiI dunno if this is in the unmodified version or not
01:40:49KyomiBut whenever it brings up the keyboard-ish thing to ask for a filename for a playlist... I can't move left or right in the text.. only in the selection part
01:40:57linuxstbKyomi: Well, in CVS, "max files in dir browser" is clearly an option from 50 to 10000.
01:41:00KyomiSo I have to delete the entire name and retype what i want
01:41:23KyomiThis was when I was using un-modified
01:41:31KyomiAnd in experimental
01:42:32 Quit elinenbe (" HydraIRC -> <- The future of IRC")
01:42:56 Quit Moos ("Glory to Rockbox !!!")
01:44:56amiconnKyomi: Play+Left/Right moves the edit cursor
01:45:57KyomiWhere is this manual at?
01:46:04KyomiI apparently need to read it XD
01:46:29 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
01:47:31 Part herz42
01:55:00Paul_The_NerdThat *needs* to be on the front page.
01:55:07Paul_The_NerdAnd stickied in like, every forum ever
01:55:35XavierGrindeed,given the amount of work that has been done
01:56:12 Quit obo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:56:31KyomiPaul_The_Nerd: I knew it existed.. but never knew where it was XD
01:59:30Paul_The_NerdKyomi: Well, this is fairly new. This is player-specific PDF manuals of happiness and joy.
01:59:54FebsIt's only existed for a couple of days.
02:00:21FebsWe've been working on drafting it for a while, but Daniel only created the automatic builds a few days ago.
02:02:00webguest26It's looking really good, 3.0 will ship with a great manual
02:02:43 Quit tvelocity ("Ex-Chat")
02:03:04preglowyeah, i'm really pleased at seeing the amount of work going in it
02:03:06sharpeanyone know offhand, what the plugin buffer size generally would be on targets other than the ipod 5g?
02:03:36KyomiIt better be 42 :P
02:04:36sharpesounds reasonable to me
02:04:58Paul_The_NerdI thought it was that on all SWCodecs or at least all iPods?
02:05:33sharpei wasn't sure if all targets had the same amount of space allocated for the plugin buffer...
02:05:48preglowarchos has 32kb
02:05:49Paul_The_NerdThe Archoses don't.
02:05:50preglowirive rhas way more
02:06:03preglowi think we're around 400kb
02:06:29Paul_The_NerdI think it's 512?
02:06:38sharpewell, the c64 emulator probably won't be able to work for the archoses...
02:07:46sharpeas it's 64kb of ram for the c64, and 20kb of rom...
02:08:44webguest26not to mention being horribly, horribly slow
02:09:03sharpethe archos, or the c64? :)
02:09:40Kyomic64 emulator makes me wet ^^;
02:09:48KyomiWhere? I must have
02:09:56sharpekyomi: tis an idea
02:10:08CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
02:10:08*Paul_The_Nerd sighs.
02:11:31*Paul_The_Nerd wonders why there "has to be" a way that's both easy and non-destructive and not time consuming to add linux to an iPod after Rockbox is on it.
02:12:43KyomiBah... linux can suck an egg :P
02:12:55KyomiIt looks too much like windows 3.1...
02:13:00KyomiAnd mac's
02:13:03Paul_The_NerdMan, "looks"
02:13:08Paul_The_NerdIt's always how it looks with these people
02:13:09KyomiWhich I despise with every fiber of my being
02:13:20Paul_The_NerdAnd for no good reason I'm sure
02:13:36KyomiName 3 GOOD games that can run on macs
02:13:49KyomiOr on linux... right out of the box
02:14:10Paul_The_NerdMarathon, Marathon 2, and Marathon Infinity for Mac (which you won't see on PC, but they're extraordinary)
02:14:18warthawgfrozen bubbles
02:14:35Paul_The_NerdAs for Linux, define "Out of the Box." Some distros come with Cedega
02:14:48Paul_The_NerdBut that's unimportant, an OSes worth is *hardly* inherent in how well it games
02:16:21KyomiPaul_The_Nerd: not correct.. and OSes worth is ENTIRELY based on how well it games
02:16:28KyomiBecause that is the only point of a computer
02:16:35KyomiTo play/make games :)
02:16:51KyomiAnd if not... how come there are MUCH MUCH more available then office programs and such?
02:17:38 Join aegray_ [0] (
02:17:40BHSPitLappycan you not figure that one out on your own?
02:17:49preglowi never play games anymore, and somehow still manage to use a computer way too often
02:17:58preglowbut then again, i'm insane
02:18:02 Quit aegray (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:18:11sharpeheh... my plugin buffer size checking code is so great, "if (c64memory_size < MEM_MIN) fail();"
02:18:32preglowscrew the c64 emulator, make a .sid player!
02:18:47preglowthe sid chip is the best part of the c64 anyway
02:18:49BHSPitLappyscrew the .sid player, make an n64 emulator!
02:18:54sharpegee, if i only knew something about the sid chip...
02:19:16preglowyou don't need to know it, just translate resid to c
02:19:19KyomiI'd love to see .sid emulator
02:19:32Kyomitranslate sidAMP to c :P
02:19:33*Paul_The_Nerd waits for the world Kyomi imagines to exist, so that she can lose use of the internet, as well as power, TV, etc.
02:19:40BHSPitLappyI'd love to see a mid player
02:20:12KyomiPaul_The_Nerd: Games require all of those things... so naturally... they are still available :)
02:20:23KyomiMaybe I should of rephased that
02:20:34Kyomicomputer = PC
02:20:37preglowsidamp sucks balls :/
02:20:39KyomiHome PC actually :)
02:20:43BHSPitLappymaybe I should have rephased YOU.
02:20:47Kyomipreglow: Yeah.. but at least I know it works :)
02:20:54sharpei think i used to actually have a c64 somewhere...
02:21:08KyomiAlthough... it's a bit difficult to get the subtune selector to pop-up at certian times
02:21:20preglowi bloody hate winamp
02:21:38Paul_The_NerdSo why are you using it?
02:21:44preglowwhat makes you think i am?
02:21:52preglowi haven't used it for ages
02:21:54preglowi hate it, after all
02:22:09Paul_The_NerdSorry, didn't catch the connection with the "sidamp sucks" statement earlier
02:22:19Paul_The_NerdI thought this was an immediate frustration with something the stupid thing had done.
02:22:26Paul_The_NerdI'm a little fuzzy at the moment
02:22:32preglowit does stupid things all the time
02:22:44preglowunless they've improved it
02:22:49 Part warthawg ("You never miss your warthawg til the well runs dry")
02:22:56 Quit muesliii (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:24:36preglowi need some fecking sleep
02:25:04webguest26don't mix those two
02:26:15Paul_The_NerdAnyone know an easy .sit extractor for windows? Something that's trustworthy?
02:29:13sharpepencil and paper?
02:29:23sharpeonly as faulty as user?
02:29:52KyomiI have no idea what .sit is
02:30:02KyomiWhy can't everyone just use .zip/rar
02:30:13sharpecompressed format for mac
02:30:21KyomiIt's be sooo much easier then like six million formats
02:30:23Paul_The_NerdSome of us prefer .7z :-P
02:30:27linuxstbtar.Z or nothing...
02:30:34KyomiBah.. noone cares about the mac :P
02:30:43sharpeoh the love.
02:30:49Paul_The_NerdI am not a fan of StuffIt archived packages though
02:31:00linuxstb What are you doing with a stuffit archive anyway?
02:31:06Paul_The_NerdI got the craving for Marathon
02:31:16Paul_The_NerdBungie released it as Freeware but it's .sit archived
02:31:29sharpethey just wanted to screw with you.
02:31:45Paul_The_NerdThere's an open source engine for it, but of course, unless I can extract the archives I can't play even though it's wonderfully cross platform
02:32:08KyomiHonestly... Marathon just sounds... retarded
02:32:16sharpeshould i have the cpu flags as one byte, or have each one as a bool?
02:32:18KyomiLike... marathon running... is that what it is?
02:32:40KyomiOr is that the game that made Halo?
02:32:49sharpei'm thinking individual bools...
02:33:09sharpepredecessor to halo, isn't it?
02:33:25Paul_The_NerdKyomi: Basically, Predecessor to Halo, yeah
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02:39:09 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
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02:55:08*Paul_The_Nerd sighs
02:55:22Paul_The_NerdI expected that now that Doom is in CVS and clearly not working people would stop asking me for working Doom builds
02:56:12Paul_The_NerdI'm about to change my forum sig to "No, I will not build Doom for you, nor will I make you any sort of custom build, nor will I send you *any* file."
02:56:18 Quit paugh (Remote closed the connection)
02:56:30midkayPaul_The_Nerd, haha.
02:57:38sharpemidkay, guess what the next project is now...
02:57:46midkaysharpe, wut wut wut?!
02:57:54sharpec64 emulator :)
02:57:59midkaypff. good luck!
02:58:23 Join webguest70 [0] (
02:58:35sharpeessentially... cpu emulator... + whatever else makes the c64 work.
02:58:46webguest70 interesting "the guys at rockbox suck" :-/
03:00:25Paul_The_Nerdwebguest70: He's talking about me specifically
03:01:23webguest70ahahaha, the "WTF IS ROCKBOX" guy
03:02:50Paul_The_NerdHe's frustrated because there's no *simple* way to install Rockbox and iPodLinux without having to either backup his music, or learn how to repartition non-destructively
03:03:31webguest70This is so obviuosly your fault.
03:03:50BHSPitLappywebguest70: why don't you ever change your nick?
03:04:07Paul_The_NerdIt is 100% clearly my fault for not writing him an installer that does it all for him
03:04:44CassandraThere is a standard response for people like this.
03:04:45 Nick webguest70 is now known as realnick (
03:05:00realnickIs it Go Stick Your Head In A Pig? Is it, is it?
03:05:00Cassandra"I'm sorry, but you appear to need more help than I am able to offer."
03:05:31CassandraCan you tell I used to be a sysadmin?
03:05:46Paul_The_NerdCassandra: I think I've only ever resorted to that response twice now.
03:07:02CassandraI love the way it's both helpful and honest, depending on how you read it.
03:14:10realnick"is all it is is a file browser?" oh dear
03:14:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:15:15Paul_The_NerdThat gets asked about once every 2 weeks, at least
03:15:48sharpe"yes, it is a file browser. you can do nothing more than stare at your files."
03:16:22sharpewould be an interesting reply...
03:16:58sharpewell, lets hope i know the 6502/6510 address modes correctly.
03:17:02 Quit nudel ("At Argon, we're working to keep your money.")
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03:22:33BHSPitLappydoes this really confuse any of you, too?
03:23:13midkayit looks like some t-shirts. if you find t-shirts confusing.....
03:23:18 Part KerwoodDerby
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03:49:59linuxstbsharpe: Why don't you just port Frodo?
03:50:07sharpei hate you.
03:50:22sharpei don't know
03:50:44linuxstbI know porting an emulator isn't as fun as writing one...
03:51:07sharpei'm just on the cpu emulator part right now...
03:51:13linuxstbBut it's probably about 6 months faster.
03:52:01sharpewell, i could use the 1541, Basic, and Char Roms from it
03:55:07sharpejust ignore what i say, i probably am not very coherent right now...
03:57:18XavierGrsharpe what about porting NES? It would be a great challenge. iPL has a porting NES emulator but overall speed IIRC is not good.
03:58:56 Quit mymomthelush ("Trillian (")
03:58:59sharpei dunno...
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04:07:28imphasingHow does the nano write to the screen? does it store the fb in sdram first, then write it, or does it just write the lcd data as a stream?
04:08:04BHSPitLappyXavierGr: the guy ported infones, and from what I know, its source code sucks
04:08:15BHSPitLappyalso, the current build uses SDL (Slow Dev. Library...)
04:08:44Paul_The_Nerdimphasing: I think in most cases Rockbox drawing is done by way of a framebuffer
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04:09:17imphasingPaul_The_Nerd: I was actually talking about where it places the data before it writes to the lcd controller
04:09:24imphasingIt must be in the sdram..
04:09:39imphasingXavierGr: I did a second port of infones, becuase I was bored, and it sucked.
04:09:51imphasingIt really doesn't have enough power to work well on the ipod.
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04:10:15imphasingNot sure about the other rockbox archs, but it's not really feasible on the ipod
04:10:45sharpeheh, okay, i'll use this for the cpu emulator...
04:10:50sharpethen just to build on top of it.
04:10:52imphasingAlthough, if you totally re-wrote one for use with the ipod, and optimized a lot of things in ARM ASM, it might work
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04:11:07XavierGrok I didn't know that it was just a suggestion
04:11:20XavierGryou know a better NES emulator for embedded systems?
04:11:47sharpei'm talking about the c64 emulator :D
04:11:49imphasingHeh, most NES emu's are bloated
04:12:37Paul_The_NerdOut of curiosity, is FCEU worse or better for such purposes as infoNES?
04:13:06linuxstbimphasing: Are you talking about the IRAM? (for the lcd framebuffer?)
04:14:25XavierGrPaul_The_Nerd: FCEU is a good candidate, but I am not in these stuff. I looked at the code and I was dautned
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04:18:24Kyomijd|uni: telnet://
04:19:51jd|uniim at uni and there is no way they alow telnet out!
04:20:12Kyomi1000 milliseconds = 1 second?
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04:20:32KyomiHave any of you heard of iriverter?
04:22:28 Join enzyme [0] (
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04:24:06enzymei heard from some where that theres a way to turn off the screen when playing music
04:25:24Paul_The_NerdYou could modify the source to do that, though it still draws even if the LCD is off.
04:25:53enzymeok so no way of saving battery
04:26:46Paul_The_NerdIt wouldn't help much.
04:27:13 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
04:28:22enzymehow can i help to fix the trebla and bass problems for the ipod 5g
04:28:45Paul_The_NerdWhat problems?
04:29:12enzymeyou know on the ipods the treble and bass dont work
04:29:36Paul_The_NerdI'd been led to understand that was more a hardware thing than anything
04:29:48Paul_The_NerdOh, wait
04:30:09Paul_The_NerdThe 5G has a different codec. There's not a datasheet, so the hardware needs to be figured out somehow
04:30:27jd|unitick tock...
04:30:32jd|unibored as fuck!
04:32:37linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: There is a datasheet (sort of). It tells us there is no hardware bass/treble control in the codec. But there is a five-band EQ that can probably be used for that purpose.
04:33:31Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: Ah. I'd thought it was undocumented (at least, enough for implementation of that?)
04:33:39linuxstbFor the 5g's codec, the WM8983 datasheet seemed to match.
04:33:58enzymeis there a battery fix for the ipod
04:34:19Paul_The_NerdWhat kind of battery fix?
04:34:20linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: No, we have datasheets for all the ipod audio codecs (or very close matches)
04:34:37Paul_The_NerdHopefully I remember that once my head's clear. :)
04:35:07KyomiAnyone having a shortened battery life problem?
04:35:08linuxstbThe LCDs are also quite well documented. The problem is the portalplayer chip, and all the hardware integrated in it.
04:35:24KyomiIt may be just the stuff I do with it but I have to charge it like everyday
04:35:24linuxstb... the external chips are easier.
04:35:42KyomiI'm guessing Doom uses alot of battery power?
04:35:50Paul_The_NerdDoom uses a lot
04:35:54KyomiMore then videos?
04:35:57KyomiOr about the same?
04:36:08Paul_The_NerdDunno. We don't support video, so it's hard to compare.
04:36:11enzymewhat are some ways to save battery power
04:36:11KyomiOh! I have one other question
04:36:22Paul_The_NerdBut as it is H300 Rockbox uses more power than the iRiver firmware anyway
04:36:30KyomiWhy does the light randomly come on when playing music?
04:36:33enzymebecause im averaging about 9hours on ipod video
04:36:46KyomiI had that happen friday night
04:36:48Paul_The_Nerdenzyme: Make sure your anti-skip buffer is set low, and use the least processor intensive features you can (no peakmeter, simple WPSes without graphics, no equalizer...)
04:36:53enzymeand i got it for xmas
04:37:08KyomiIt'd come on and then go off after the time i set
04:37:15KyomiThen it'd come back on like 15 mins later
04:37:19Paul_The_Nerdenzyme: Rockbox has greatly shorter battery life than retail at the moment. It *is* a work in progres.
04:37:44KyomiSoo... eventually rockbox will use less bat then retai;?
04:37:47Kyomi-; +l
04:37:50Paul_The_NerdHopefully, yes.
04:38:01linuxstbBut it's better value per charge :)
04:38:01Paul_The_NerdI mean, it'll still be dependent upon what you're doing with it.
04:38:03enzymewhere is the anti skip
04:38:17KyomiI'm thinking that Doom probably uses about the same amount of as watching videos?
04:38:31KyomiTechnically.. all Doom is, is an interactive video
04:39:05enzymenope it doesnt work
04:39:20Paul_The_NerdKyomi: Doom also has to read button inputs, and calculate 3D graphics, instead of just decompressing an image and audio and updating the screen. Depending on how their video is handled, and how well doom is optimized, it could potentially go either way.
04:39:29Paul_The_Nerdenzyme: What doesn't work?
04:39:35enzymethe manuals
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04:40:00Paul_The_Nerdenzyme: Try changing the date in the link to yesterday
04:40:03KyomiI wouldn't call Doom entirely 3D
04:40:22KyomiIf by 3D you mean things like walls and colums yes :L)
04:40:25Paul_The_NerdKyomi: There's still more than simply raycasting going on in the engine.
04:40:31 Quit tianjing (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:40:55Paul_The_NerdRaycasting was the method used for engines like Wolf3D where the floor and ceiling were considered to be a flat surface.
04:41:42enzymeshould i be updating rockbox ecery day or every week
04:42:19Paul_The_NerdWhenever you see a new feature you want
04:42:28Kyomienzyme: I'd say every 2-3 days :)
04:42:51jd|uniany1 know how to see the current mem usage of a running procces in unix?
04:43:09KyomiOh crap
04:43:10KyomiI know this
04:43:43jd|uniwhich column?
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04:44:21jd|uni%mem says 0.2 for the proces which is BS...
04:45:08linuxstbMaybe the SIZE column.
04:45:39linuxstb"man top" gives you all the info you need (and more)
04:45:59linuxstbps could also help
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05:04:23firmdragonhi, does anyone know if the iriver has some sort of killswitch in case the software freezes?
05:04:34Paul_The_NerdThere's the hard reset button on the bottom of the H120s
05:05:06firmdragonah ok. thanks.
05:05:16firmdragonbeen having problems w/ freezing lately.
05:07:24Paul_The_NerdWith CVS or a custom build?
05:08:38firmdragonno no, just regular playback. figured out it was because of a .wav i was playing around with.
05:08:59firmdragonrecently did a recovery and i guess the header still isn't right.
05:09:23Paul_The_NerdI'm surprised that causes an irrecoverable freeze, but *shrug*
05:14:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:25:16XavierGrhmm. anyone with an H300 here?
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05:32:27imphasinglinuxstb: (delayed) I don't think there's enough iram to hold a single framebuffer..
05:32:44imphasingI think it's about 154k for a 16bpp 320x240 fb
05:33:28linuxstbYes, that's why I asked...
05:33:53imphasingDoes the LCD controller store the data anywhere before it writes it?
05:34:02imphasingOr does it just write your framebuffer as it sees it?
05:34:36nave7693it would be interesting to see rombox eventually grow over 22xKB and can't fit into flash on the archos anymore
05:34:40linuxstbWhat do you mean by "LCD controller" ? Rockbox has an internal framebuffer, and the lcd_update() function transfers that framebuffer to the GRAM inside the lcd controller.
05:34:54imphasingAh, so there's storage inside the controller?
05:35:06imphasingAh, handy..
05:35:22imphasingI thought you'd just feed x bytes at a time, it it writes them
05:35:30XavierGrlinuxstb: I am setting up a new vmware image of debian. I will add an xserver and a WM to be able to build the sim and the manual. Do you know if I can just copy paste the crosscompiler already build in the previous vmware image?
05:35:47XavierGror do I have to compile them again?
05:35:54linuxstbYes, that should work. Assuming it's a vaguely similar version of Debian.
05:36:07XavierGrit is the same distro debian sarge
05:36:22XavierGrshould I include something to the path then?
05:36:26linuxstbThere shouldn't be a problem then.
05:36:57linuxstbYes, the default path should contain the directories of the cross-compilers.
05:37:11XavierGrhmm okay. Thanks for the help
05:37:33XavierGrIf I finish it I will try to get it up for redistribution
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05:37:37linuxstbLike me, you should be asleep at this time... Unless you've just got up.
05:37:47goffaanything major happen for the x5 this weekend?
05:37:55goffai was out of town
05:38:17XavierGrlinuxstb: was that for me?
05:38:17Paul_The_Nerdgoffa: There's a changelog expressly for viewing what has changed. :)
05:38:30goffakinda read through the change log.. i left after color was implemented for asteroids
05:38:35linuxstbXavierGr: Yep... :)
05:38:47XavierGrI woke up at 9.00pm and I have college lesson at 10.00 am so.... I couldn't sleep
05:38:51linuxstbI was wondering why another European was still awake...
05:47:26goffaon my x5, when i go into the file viewer, and pick a track, it makes a playlist of that dir
05:47:46goffais there a way to have it just play that track, then go to the next song in the playlist?
05:48:07Paul_The_NerdIf you choose to queue just that track
05:48:08goffaor just play that track, then resume where you were in the playlist?
05:48:26Paul_The_NerdIf you click and hold on a track, you get a variety of options. "Queue" is "Insert, then remove after played"
05:48:27goffayeah... but you can't change it to just insert by defalt?
05:48:47goffai know how to queue it
05:49:00goffabut i'm thinking about when i'm driving down the highway
05:49:09Paul_The_NerdWell you asked " is there a way to have it just play that track, then go to the next song in the playlist?"
05:49:22goffaah... well i asked that question wrong
05:49:38Paul_The_NerdThere's no one-button queue feature
05:50:10goffai could care less if i used a playlist, but that seems to be the only way i've found to play it :)
05:50:22goffaat least it auto generates
05:50:34Paul_The_NerdRockbox is entirely playlist based
05:50:45Paul_The_NerdSo there's always one in the background
05:50:53goffai guess one button que would probably keep me alive longer :)
05:51:32goffai'll probably get in a wreck trying to play a song by the same artist as the one playing
05:52:04Paul_The_NerdWell, I mean one button queue saves you maybe three or four button presses. If you're already browsing to the music, that's not much
05:52:06goffai guess its not that hard to reload the playlist, its just kind of a pain
05:52:24goffait is if you are driving like i say
05:52:36Paul_The_NerdYeah, but you really shouldn't be browsing *at all* while driving
05:52:43goffayeah.. i know
05:52:54Paul_The_NerdSo arguing that it's "less dangerous" is moot, since you can easily make it not dangerous at all
05:53:13goffaactually no
05:53:21goffayou can hit the button
05:53:24goffaglance down
05:53:30goffaglance at the road
05:53:40goffago down 3 tracks or whatever then instantly queue
05:53:52goffaand save 4 more looks down to the player
05:54:07goffabut more convenient could be better wording if that makes you happy
05:54:27Paul_The_NerdWell that's still not as safe as just watching the road
05:54:38goffai'll give you that
05:54:50Paul_The_NerdAlso, remember, the entire series of button presses for queueing is constant, so you can memorize them and never have to look at the player while doing it
05:54:56goffatechnically you shouldn't change radio stations or tcarks
05:55:01Paul_The_NerdFrom the point that you find the song
05:55:12goffabut its still not as convenient
05:55:19goffaso a toggle on/off would be nice
05:55:32Paul_The_NerdToggle on/off of what?
05:55:38goffa1 button queuing
05:55:55goffacould be in the playlist submenu
05:56:45goffai don't know how to program or i'd do it myself and submit it
05:56:56Paul_The_NerdOr it could just stay the way it is, and not increase binary size any further, since it works fine, adds maybe a second of time to how long it takes to queue a song, y'know? I mean, I'm not sure the cost/benefit ratio is in favor of yet another option that exists only to trim 2 or 3 button presses
05:57:19goffayeah.. we wouldn't want to make things more convenient
05:57:36goffaor useable/custamizeable
05:57:42Paul_The_NerdCustomization comes at a cost
05:57:53goffai'm aware, but that's what makes rockbox great
05:57:53Paul_The_NerdThere are very strong arguments for not increasing the size of the binary
05:58:05Paul_The_NerdSuch as "It will make it stop working on some players"
05:58:06goffayeah... but 1 option wouldn't be much
05:58:19Paul_The_NerdYeah, but what makes your 1 option more important than someone else's?
05:58:28goffait doesn't
05:58:29Paul_The_NerdOr a new feature rather than a convenience?
05:58:31goffathats why its a toggle
05:58:41Paul_The_NerdPutting in the toggle costs binary size too
05:58:55Paul_The_NerdEvery line of code to implement makes the file bigger
05:59:11goffabut shutting someone down and calling their idea stupid isn't very productive either
05:59:16Paul_The_NerdWhen the feature is already there, and those lines could be used for something new, rather than just helping someone save 3 button presses
05:59:24Paul_The_NerdI didn't call your idea stupid
05:59:35goffawell you seem pretty anti my idea
05:59:37Paul_The_NerdI explained why it's unlikely to be something that will be in CVS some day
05:59:51Paul_The_NerdI am anti your idea. I don't think it's stupid. I think that it's not worth the cost
06:00:14Paul_The_NerdThat's a pretty big difference.
06:00:14goffaalso... have you seen the rio karma?
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06:00:31goffathey have a mode where you can see a full screen of songs in your playlist
06:00:42goffaand you can just arrow down until you see the one you want
06:00:44Paul_The_NerdLike the "View Playlist" option?
06:01:02goffayeah.. except that you are always viewing it
06:01:05Galoisthere are ways to add an option without increasing binary size. For example you can make it a compile-time option.
06:01:26goffathank you Galois
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06:01:39Paul_The_NerdAt that point why not just make it a patch?
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06:02:11Galoispatches are fine, but they tend to fall into bitrot
06:02:11BHSPitLappy"[Paul_The_Nerd] Customization comes at a cost" <- But Windows costs a whole lot more... what's up with THAT? ;)
06:02:22GaloisI mean, look at the linux kernel, that's almost completely compile-time configurable
06:02:28Paul_The_NerdGaloi: Yeah, but compile time options don't work well with something intended to be distributed as a binary
06:02:50Galoisand yes linux is intended to be distributed as a binary
06:03:49goffai'd rather see a ui improvement than say... doom
06:03:54Paul_The_NerdGalois: Rockbox as a project is also somewhat against compile time options, besides build target
06:03:58goffanot that i'm faulting the people developing doom
06:04:02goffaits their own time
06:04:04goffatheir hobby
06:04:05Paul_The_Nerdgoffa: Doom is a plugin. Doesn't cost binary size
06:04:25goffaand i'm happy to see ANYTHING developed
06:05:07 Quit jbauman (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
06:05:30Paul_The_Nerdgoffa: Core functions, things that are in use while playing, in the menus, or in the file browser are the ones that need to be carefully cost/benefited
06:07:02goffawell i'll put it this way.. i know its not a huge sum of money... but i'll donate another $50 to anyone who gets 1 button queuing in
06:07:24DrumRBoy320hey... no way rockbox can read an NTFS drive, right?
06:07:26goffawell to the project
06:07:32goffanot to the individual
06:07:58Paul_The_NerdDrumRBoy320: FAT32 only
06:08:32Paul_The_Nerdgoffa: Would you be willing to patch and build yourself if someone made a patch with one-button queuing?
06:08:57goffawell if i had an explanation on how to patch and build
06:09:08goffathen yes
06:09:21Paul_The_NerdThe wiki's full of explanations of how to patch and build
06:09:30goffai'd put another $50 into the project if it was made available for others to do the same for themselves
06:09:53Paul_The_NerdAnd golly gee, look, a patch:
06:10:05Paul_The_NerdIt's a little dated, but I'm sure it could be modified to work
06:10:13DrumRBoy320Paul_The_Nerd, i got an iPod's 60 gig drive to work again, but im having a heck of a time getting it from NTFS (which is the only way it would partition for some reason) to fat32 :/
06:10:28DrumRBoy320format** not partition
06:10:37Paul_The_NerdDrumRBoy320: Apple restore utility.
06:11:26goffaPaul_The_Nerd: i'll try it... if it works i'll stop bitching and donate
06:11:45Paul_The_NerdOh, I'm almost positive it won't work out of the box
06:12:02goffayou mean patched?
06:12:12Paul_The_NerdThe patch itself is over a year old
06:12:47DrumRBoy320Paul_The_Nerd, i want to use it with my h300
06:12:53Paul_The_NerdBut if you politely posted in the forums asking if anyone's interested in the ability for one-button queuing, and then point a link to that saying that it's outdated, but might be a good place to start if any C programmers would be willing to help out, it's possible you'll get some help
06:13:03DrumRBoy320but... will that make it usable by my h300?
06:13:11Paul_The_NerdDrumRBoy320: Well, windows doesn't like formatting about 32gigs with Fat32, so get Swissknife or some other partitioning utility
06:13:39DrumRBoy320ive been using the HP format utility, but i have swill knife, ill try that
06:14:08Paul_The_Nerdgoffa: I'd recommend general discussion, since this is a feature that could interest people on all targets.
06:14:14goffaand btw.. i'm not trying to be rude... but there are features i want...
06:14:50Paul_The_Nerdgoffa: There's nothing at all wrong with wanting features. There's just a lot of reasons why features that are "convenience" but a relatively minor convenience, probably won't show up in CVS
06:14:54Paul_The_NerdNote the "probably"
06:15:07goffaand trust me.. that's not minor
06:15:12Paul_The_NerdIt's not minor to you
06:15:37goffaevery time i have to go through that clunky menu it grates at me
06:15:40Galoisthe patch seems to imply that party mode implements one-button queuing
06:15:45Paul_The_NerdThere were people a lot more upset than you about the volume change to dB, and they didn't put in an option to show it as either dB or % because of feature bloat.
06:15:49Galoisand isn't party mode already part of rockbox?
06:15:57goffai'll try that
06:16:18Paul_The_NerdGalois: I know that with party mode you can't accidentally stop playback. I don't know if it queues, inserts, or what.
06:17:12goffait queues files last
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06:17:32goffaand makes it less convenient to insert your playlist
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06:19:04 Quit Jungti1234 (Client Quit)
06:19:42DrumRBoy320wow, that was easy... swiss knife quick formatted it in secconds
06:20:21 Quit imphasing (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:20:40DrumRBoy320nevermind... didnt work right, doing a full format now
06:20:53Paul_The_NerdWell, either way Swissknife is a pretty excellent tool for such things
06:21:23DrumRBoy320really is... much more stable... how long would you say a full format for 60 gigs from NTFS to fat32 ill take?
06:21:35Paul_The_NerdNo clue
06:22:18DrumRBoy320yea, well, "slow" wouldve been the correct response so far ;)
06:24:56Galoisgoffa: where would you prefer the files to be queued?
06:26:40Paul_The_NerdI assume Queue next rather than Queue last
06:26:55midkaysigh, build system's stuck again or something..
06:30:36Galoisgoffa: apps/filetree.c line 406 change PLAYLIST_INSERT_LAST to PLAYLIST_INSERT, recompile, install, done.
06:30:57Galoisyou can change the following QUEUE_ line too for cosmetic purposes if you want
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06:31:44goffai guess if i didn't queue and just played that would be fine too...
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06:32:27Paul_The_NerdHe just told you how to get it to insert next in, I would assume, party mode?
06:32:35goffai'm going to try it
06:35:57goffawith my mentality, making playlists should be secondary to using/navigating them, but then i don't really like making playlists ;)
06:46:23Paul_The_NerdGoffa: You are aware of the quick menu that lets you easily enable/disable shuffle, right?
06:46:59Paul_The_NerdAt the file browser or WPS, click and hold the button that you'd normall just tap to open the menu
06:48:22goffathe one with recent bookmarks, etc?
06:48:45Paul_The_NerdIt just has three options, Repeat Mode, Shuffle Mode, and File view
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06:49:21Paul_The_NerdRecent bookmarks is on the normal menu
06:49:35Paul_The_NerdYou need to hold the button down, not just tap it
06:50:32goffahow long?
06:50:59Paul_The_NerdJust about a second or so
06:51:03Paul_The_NerdWhat player do you have?
06:51:12 Nick paugh is now known as AliasCoffee (n=kickback@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822)
06:51:35Paul_The_NerdI don't know if it's been implemented, but it should be
06:51:39Paul_The_NerdTry the record button
06:51:41Paul_The_NerdLong press
06:51:41YouCeyEthis page does not exist?
06:51:55YouCeyEi want to dl the latest for h120
06:52:09Paul_The_NerdYouCeyE: The build system seems to be having a hiccup. Why not the latest bleeding edge instead?
06:52:20YouCeyEPaul_The_Nerd, link pls?
06:52:29goffathat gives me the recent bookmarks
06:52:41Paul_The_Nerdgoffa: What does a short press of record do then?
06:52:49Paul_The_NerdYouCeyE: It's on the CVS link at the main page
06:52:59goffathe same
06:53:02YouCeyEgot it thanks
06:53:36YouCeyEPaul_The_Nerd, every time my settings are reset when i install new rockbox build
06:53:43YouCeyEanyway to save all the settings
06:54:14goffais that menu implemented on the x5?
06:54:23goffabecause maybe that's why i'm having the trouble
06:54:36Paul_The_Nerdgoffa: It may not be, but I swear someone got to it by holding record just yesterday. Maybe it was a different button...
06:54:55Paul_The_NerdYouCeyE: There's an option to save your setting in Manage Settings in the menu.
06:55:23goffarebooting it
06:55:27goffamaybe something got hosed
06:55:49Paul_The_Nerdgoffa: Unlikely
06:55:58goffai know
06:56:03goffaeliminating variables
06:56:33Paul_The_NerdSee, and while you're doing that, I"m just looking it up in the manual
06:56:35goffawonder how long "committing tagcache" is going to take
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07:01:42Paul_The_NerdIt looks like the quickscreen isn't enabled for the X5
07:01:50Paul_The_NerdAt least, from looking at the source
07:02:10goffaquickscreen sounds handy
07:02:15goffaand maybe thats why i'm frustrated
07:02:18midkayPaul_The_Nerd, it's not
07:02:20Paul_The_NerdIt'll be enabled eventually
07:02:26Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: And why not young mane?
07:02:44midkayew, perv.. um.. i'm not sure. i don't know the button definitions and crap!
07:03:09goffai can't say that the developers are lazy
07:03:13midkay*trying to fix a disgusting Bubbles bug*
07:03:19goffaits amazing to see how many posts/day
07:04:23Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Well, record is the button that triggers the normal menu. Steal anything else you need from some plugin. :-P Shoo
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07:06:15Paul_The_NerdBlast? Still buggy?
07:06:27 Quit AliasCoffee ("Leaving")
07:06:29midkayyes.. and i'm trying to think of the simplest way to fix it..
07:06:49midkayit's that when you pause the game, the timer remains counting. i completely see why, i just can't think of a clean+simple way around it..
07:08:45midkayaha.. i think i may have squashed it.
07:09:21goffayou going to post an update soon? was just going to update the firmware to latest
07:09:45midkayas soon as i fix it..
07:09:52midkayprobably soon, yeah..
07:10:01midkaynot that the build system would allow you to have it. :)
07:10:02goffahe he he... don't want to flash it twice tonight :)
07:10:07goffaah ok
07:10:09midkayyou only flash once.
07:10:21goffaoh i can just drag and drop once flashed?
07:10:26midkayonce and you're done.. after that, you just copy some files to your ipod to update.
07:10:48goffathe .rockbox and the rockbox.iaudio?
07:10:48midkayflashing just replaces the bootloader, telling it to load rockbox from disk. rockbox itself is a set of files which can be updated by just replacing them on the disk.
07:10:53midkayyes, exactly.
07:11:03goffagood to know
07:11:24midkay*crosses fingers*
07:11:38midkayjust... argh.
07:13:50 Quit tianjing_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:14:23*midkay crosses fingers again..
07:14:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:15:17midkayaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaa, ahahaaaaa, aaahahahahahahaaAAAaaa!!
07:17:04Paul_The_NerdIs that good or bad "I've just gone insane" laughter?
07:17:19midkayhopefully, good.
07:18:54 Quit thegeek (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:23:57midkaydesperate times call for desperate meatures.
07:24:05midkay*jacks in to the Matrix*
07:27:47dpassen1I don't think I meant to type thayt
07:28:06*B4gder pretends he didn't see it
07:28:20dpassen1Thanks, I appreciate it.
07:28:52B4gderbtw had almost 120,000 unique visistors during March 2006
07:30:00B4gderwho downloaded almost 100GB
07:30:06dpassen1Pretty impressive, were you Slashdotted?
07:30:33B4gderat least I don't think so
07:30:46dpassen1The iPod port is really expansive to the potential userbase.
07:31:20dpassen1Did the iRiver ports create a smaller scale jump from the only Archos days?
07:31:33Bg3rmorning :)
07:32:04amiconngood morning
07:32:14 Part nave7693
07:32:44amiconn#ifdef TREE_MENU_PRE
07:32:45amiconncase TREE_MENU_PRE:
07:32:45DBUGEnqueued KICK amiconn
07:32:45amiconncase TREE_MENU:
07:32:45***Alert Mode level 1
07:32:59midkayamiconn, what doesn't make sense?
07:33:01amiconnThat doesn't look like it makes any sense....
07:33:09B4gderMikachu: yeah, well that was over a year ago :-)
07:33:13midkayif TREE_MENU_PRE is defined, it's used. if it's not, TREE_MENU is.
07:33:22MikachuB4gder: oops missed the year :) i'm so used to it being 2005
07:33:34midkayif TREE_MENU_PRE is defined, that means TREE_MENU is on a BUTTON_REL event.. afaics.
07:33:38amiconnYes, but TREE_MENU is *always* defineas
07:33:54Mikachubut it looks at _PRE in the #ifdef
07:34:05midkayyes, but TREE_MENU_PRE isn't. we only need it when it is defined, because that means it's the version of TREE_MENU sans a BUTTON_REPEAT event.
07:34:12Mikachuwhere is that by the way?
07:34:19amiconn...and is the _PRE is also defined, both should be checked as a sequence (with lastbutton)
07:34:57midkayamiconn, but TREE_MENU *is* TREE_MENU_PRE. _PRE just doesn't have the release event. and we don't want a release event. that causes the menu to pop up as soon as it's exited.
07:35:16amiconnNo, it's not
07:35:17Mikachuthere is a bug like that in a place on ipods at least
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07:35:43Bg3rXavierGr ?:)
07:35:47amiconnThe _PRE is there when we have two actions on the same button, depending on short/long press
07:35:49Mikachuwps -> playlist -> view current playlist -> press menu
07:35:55XavierGrGuess how I spent my night.
07:36:08midkayamiconn, i meant "release" instead of "repeat". e.g. recorder, BUTTON_MENU = BUTTON_F1. but iPod - BUTTON_MENU = (BUTTON_MENU|BUTTON_REL) and _PRE exists in this case as just BUTTON_MENU.
07:36:09JdGordonBagder: $50 to add a patch! seen it?
07:36:11amiconnIf you just trigger on the _PRE instead of the correct action, the other action becomes unreachable
07:36:12Bg3rprobably not sleeping :D
07:36:32midkayamiconn, in playlist_viewer, we *don't want* BUTTON_MENU if _PRE exists.
07:36:40XavierGrtrying to set up samba between vmware and windows
07:36:51midkayor else it has a release event attached = bad.
07:37:59Bg3rso, is there already a feature freeze ? :)
07:38:08midkaywhy do we need to trigger on TREE_MENU when we're triggering on _PRE? same thing.
07:38:09Mikachuamiconn: is this related to the location i wrote?
07:38:34XavierGrI already have danced the feature-freeze dance Bger
07:39:54Paul_The_NerdBang the feature freeze hammer, change the topic, post on the front page, and be done with it!
07:40:10amiconnmidkay: As I already said, the other action associated to the same button as longpress (with BUTTON_REPEAT) becomes unreachable if you just use the _PRE instead of the proper #define
07:40:32CassandraI guess the question is, can anyone think of a good reason not to feature freeze now. If not, we should tell the world Rockbox is in lockdown.
07:40:38Bg3rbtw, are the builds stoned again ?
07:41:00Mikachubut i was so happy that the snow was melting
07:41:01amiconnIf there is a _PRE, you should still trigger on the event itself, and *additionally* check the _PRE against lastbutton.
07:41:06B4gderBg3r: well, they were at least
07:41:38B4gderand when I killed the job it doesn't rebuild the table
07:42:00B4gdernext build will fix it again
07:42:22midkayamiconn, what in playlist viewer is accessible with TREE_MENU "longpress"?
07:42:34Mikachuamiconn: i think in this case, there is no other event that collides
07:42:35midkay_nothing_, as far as i ever heard or figured out.
07:42:46***Alert Mode OFF
07:42:49midkaythis is only a playlist_viewer small bugfix.
07:42:51Mikachuand now that i think, i changed TREE_MENU to TREE_MENU_PRE in my tree and it fixed the bug
07:42:51amiconnApart from that, I don't see how triggering on the release instead of the press makes it not working??
07:43:14midkayamiconn, when you tap TREE_MENU to exit the menu, the release triggers it to be called up again.
07:43:21midkayso it's effectively unexitable, except with the l
07:43:23midkayLEFT button.
07:43:37Mikachui never figured out the left button would work :)
07:43:45Mikachumidkay: did you close my bug too?
07:44:01midkayi always use it to navigate menus, but it's nice to have it fully working anyways. Mikachu, oh, that was yours? :) yes, that prompted me to fix it.
07:44:17amiconnmidkay: Then the place which is calling it is doing something wrong
07:44:20midkayi noticed it a few times in the past few weeks, but never got around to fixing it until i came across your report and already had everything ready to fix it.. not checking the associated _PRE
07:44:32midkayamiconn, what? it simply uses the standard menu system..
07:45:08midkayamiconn, have a look if you like. this works fine and simplest.. you might be able to do it a more complex way involving checking the PRE and whatever, and you apparently desire that, so.. go ahead..
07:46:04Mikachui think the bindings for ipods in that area of the menu system should be redesigned later anyway
07:46:09Mikachuright now it's 100% confusing
07:46:22Mikachuin every second menu, MENU goes to the menu, and in the others it exits back to the wps
07:46:31midkayi don't really get all the _PRE stuff.. but this works fine anyways, and it's to-the-point..
07:46:52midkayMikachu, what? menu goes up a level, or if at the first level, back to the browser or WPS..
07:47:04midkayat least last i used it..
07:47:10amiconnI don't desire the complex way. I just think the button binding macros should be used in the way they were intended.
07:47:19Mikachui mean in the context menu and playlist menu reached from context menu in wps
07:47:26midkayamiconn, i have no idea how they were intended..
07:47:34midkayor why they were done that way if they work in a simpler way..
07:47:40Mikachuand in some menus, the only way to leave is by pressing LEFT, i would expect menu to exit them too
07:47:48Mikachunot open the main menu from the context menu..
07:48:05amiconnThere's already quite a number of them, and 'bending' them makes porting to new platforms harder, makes the UI less consistent, etc
07:49:05midkayMikachu, @ main menu from context.. agreed.
07:49:24midkayamiconn, i didn't realize there were rules or that this didn't follow them, sorry.
07:49:25amiconnmidkay: Btw, leaving the playlist viewer with TREE_MENU doesn't make sense from an UI consistency point of view
07:49:41midkayamiconn, hm? this is talking about the playlist viewer menu..
07:49:45Mikachuthe issue is the mini settings menu you reach from within the playlist viewer
07:49:51amiconnIf there's a menu associated to the playlist viewer, TREE_MENU should call that. If not, it shouldn't do anything
07:49:59midkayamiconn, it does call that. that's all.
07:50:10amiconnExiting a tree view is done with TREE_EXIT
07:50:29Mikachubut this is a menu in a tree view
07:50:39midkayamiconn, i'm not sure why you're telling me this. we're talking about a menu.
07:50:47midkaymenu brings up the menu; menu or tree_exit exits the menu.
07:50:51amiconnMikachu: Nope. The playlist viewer *is* a tree view
07:50:53midkaymenu has nothing to do with exiting the playlist viewer.
07:51:54amiconnBut Mikachu pointed out why the playlist viewer was unexitable. Calling the menu from a tree doesn't check the _PRE
07:51:55Bg3rlol "Vogg Orbis"
07:52:16Mikachuit's not easy with these fantasy names leaving the context menu with Menu calls the main menu, which shouldn't happen
07:52:53Mikachui don't think that was quite it actually, but i have to go to school now
07:53:00 Quit darkless (Client Quit)
07:53:02 Quit damaki_ (Connection timed out)
08:00:15Bg3rhm, really, any objections to put the JdGordon's text editor in cvs ?
08:00:30JdGordonnone from me :D
08:00:54Mikachucan it create new files too btw?
08:00:55CassandraBg3r: Apart from the fact we're supposed to have frozer?
08:01:05Bg3rCassandra that's why i'm asking ...
08:01:14JdGordonMikachu: yes, Cassandra, ive been asking for 3 weeks to get it in :'(
08:01:43Mode"#RockBox +o B4gder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
08:01:49CassandraJdGordon, if it's stable and works cross platform, I don't see a reason not to.
08:02:26CassandraBasically if we commit it now, we're commiting to shipping it in 3.0.
08:02:36Bg3rCassandra that's my idea ...
08:02:45JdGordonits stable, the only thing that needs work on it is end-of-line format (i.e unix/windows)
08:03:04Bg3rthis can be bugfixed later :P
08:03:09JdGordonwel.. ye
08:03:11 Join mikearthur [0] (
08:03:13CassandraWhat targets has it been tested on?
08:03:30JdGordonh300, but it uses the standard list control, so it should work on every target out-of-the-box
08:04:14amiconnHmm, that's strange. Pressing the menu button from within the context menu has that effect on any target...
08:04:16CassandraJdGordon, I'd like a bit more re-assurance than 'should' before we take the plunge. We've got a lot to get done in the next four weeks.
08:04:18JdGordonthe patch doesnt work atm beciase of changes to the plugin api.. but its easy to fix that and have a working patch if its good..
08:04:49JdGordonok change should to "there is no reason why it shouldnt" ... ?
08:05:38Paul_The_NerdJdGordon: Why not test it on the sims?
08:05:48JdGordoncoz im busy :p
08:05:53CassandraJdGordon, I'll settle for "it works in the simulator for Archos and H100".
08:06:09amiconn...but while looking into it I found a bug in tree.c...
08:06:46CassandraThen I'd have to say I'd prefer if it waited till post 3.0, since no-one else really has the time to test it either.
08:07:26CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
08:07:26*JdGordon fixing up the patch now.. real work can wait :p
08:08:24*Cassandra proposes to announce feature freeze in a couple of hours, if no-one has any objections.
08:09:39Topic"count-down to feature freeze" by B4gder (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder)
08:09:45amiconnB4gder: Do you have an idea why the builds freeze that often?
08:10:00YouCeyEhow can i create dynamic playlist?
08:10:06B4gdernot really, sometimes a build just hangs
08:10:09amiconnAlso, why is the number of build boxes varying so much?
08:10:18B4gderbecause they _do_ vary
08:10:24B4gderthey're not up all the time
08:10:32Paul_The_NerdYouCeyE: Define how you mean "dynamic"?
08:10:37B4gderLinus' and Björn's are not around 24h
08:10:45YouCeyEPaul_The_Nerd, i mean on the go playlists
08:11:29Paul_The_NerdYouCeyE: Once you've inserted the songs you want, you can save your playlist. There's an option under the Playlists section of the main menu
08:11:37B4gderamiconn: I want the build system to better monitor the single builds and to kill "hanging" ones
08:12:43amiconnB4gder: I would like to understand what "225 Server finished, but 1 builds left. Sleep and recheck." means in the log
08:13:24B4gderamiconn: it means that server looped over all jobs it can do, and thus considers itself done. But there is 1 build still not done and thus it waits and goes over the list again.
08:13:34YouCeyEthanks Paul_The_Nerd
08:13:43B4gderbecause when a build fails, it puts the job back in the list and one of the other servers can get the job and perform it instead
08:13:50YouCeyEPaul_The_Nerd, how do i insert the songs?
08:14:02amiconnB4gder: Hmm, but why is that number higher further down in the list (reported by another server)?
08:14:06YouCeyEtoo many options, too less buttons
08:14:06B4gder(and in this context I mean a build fail == a server error)
08:14:07Paul_The_NerdYouCeyE: It's in the context menu, when you long-click on songs or folders
08:14:21amiconnDo the build servers disagree about the number of outstaning builds?
08:14:25Paul_The_NerdYouCeyE: Have you seen the manual? It contains a lot of common and useful information.
08:14:27B4gderamiconn: because the number can raise again if builds fail
08:14:48YouCeyEPaul_The_Nerd, i think its time i shld check the manual :)
08:14:56CassandraHmmm. I really ought to look at finalising the list of plugins for 3.0 (as in what we're going to remove). We've already decided to dump snake in favour of snake2, I believe. What else?
08:14:57B4gderthey shouldn't disagree on that amount
08:15:00YouCeyEthanks anyway.. for all ur help..
08:15:22amiconnB4gder: Then the builds seem to fails really often??
08:15:38B4gderamiconn: thet do?
08:16:02amiconnLooking at the last masterlog, the number goes 5...1, then 2..1, then 8..1, then 7..1 etc
08:16:13B4gderyes, but check the time
08:16:33amiconnAh, now *that*s confusing....
08:16:41Bg3rJdGordon did you fix it ?
08:16:47JdGordon.. fixing...
08:16:49amiconnI expected the whole log to be in chronological order...
08:16:59B4gderits more a limitation in how the logging is done by multi-thread perl
08:17:23B4gderits not that we want it done like this!
08:17:57amiconnIf the log timestamps were fixed-width (or with some number-sorting) the masterlog could be sorted at the end
08:18:07B4gderah, good idea
08:18:27B4gderI'll look into that
08:18:48 Join DaveP [0] (
08:19:20CassandraHmm. Why do we have Calendar and RockCalendar. Is that a mistake on the wiki?
08:19:26 Quit DaveP (Client Quit)
08:19:39B4gderI believe they are two different ones
08:19:51B4gder...which we don't like
08:19:57CassandraWe should pick one.
08:20:17CassandraAnyone used them?
08:20:41B4gderPaprica is author of one of them
08:20:44Paul_The_NerdIsn't RockCalender the "New and shiny that will hopefully replace Calender" or is it the other way around?
08:21:00YouCeyEPaul_The_Nerd, i am using iriver h120.. the manual seems to cover archos models
08:21:05amiconnRockCalendar is not yet committed, as it has quirks
08:21:11YouCeyEwhat is right click in iriver?
08:21:25B4gderYouCeyE: there's a manual for h120 as well
08:21:37CassandraRockCalendar looks kind of cool. Does it work?
08:21:39YouCeyEB4gder, ic..
08:21:57CassandraIf so, I propose dropping support for Calendar.
08:22:07JdGordonBg3r: im all set, cept i need key configs for targets... each needs a select, cancel/quit and menu button... i only have full defines for ipod and iriver..
08:22:33Bg3rJdGordon as i have only h300, i'm not the one to answer you
08:22:39Paul_The_NerdYouCeyE: If you follow the link B4gder posted, there's manuals for each target.
08:22:41amiconnB4gder: Sorting the masterlog makes it look like it makes way more sense. But now there is another interesting point:
08:22:52YouCeyEthanks ..
08:22:57CassandraAlso is Databox/Search tagcache compatible?
08:23:00YouCeyEi am checking the faq first..
08:23:02amiconnThe last actual log entry was 251 Server done (left=0).
08:23:08Bg3rCassandra no, it isn't
08:23:20amiconn...but the 'all done' happens *much* later: 382 all done.
08:23:22CassandraOK, they don't make the cut for 3.0 then.
08:23:40Bg3rwhat about removing the battery_test ?
08:23:41amiconnWhat happens in these 131 seconds?
08:24:04B4gderamiconn: the really interesting tim is the "buildtime" line as that's where it rebuilds the cvs table
08:24:05Bg3rsnake2 needs resize/colorisation ...
08:24:42B4gderand that 'buildtime' is the time it adds to the moving average displayed on the cvs page
08:24:55CassandraBg3r, oh dear.
08:25:01 Join cismo_ [0] (
08:25:02CassandraWell it can't be worse than snake.
08:25:17amiconnB4gder: Yeah, but what happens in the next 131 seconds?
08:25:21Bg3rCassandra i suppose u're right
08:25:32CassandraI propose dropping mosaic, on the grounds it's a bit pants and we have better graphics demos.
08:26:23amiconnAlso, the build system seems to sometimes not catch a commit happening during a build cycle, or catch it with some delay. I experienced that yesterday.
08:26:23SlasheriB4gder: btw, does the feature freeze mean that tagcache may still get some small feature enhancements during that period which would make it more stable and usable?
08:26:48amiconnSlasheri: Yeah, chunked browsing....
08:26:51B4gderamiconn: that's by design
08:26:56CassandraSlasheri, it you can justify it as a bugfix, you can commit it.
08:26:58Slasheriamiconn: hehe, yes
08:27:09B4gderamiconn: the next 131 seconds is just other ordinary house keeping
08:27:12CassandraSo no additional functionality, but you can fix missing stuff, since that's a bug.
08:27:16B4gderrebuild tables and doing the source package
08:27:16SlasheriCassandra: yep, most of them
08:28:07B4gderthe detect-cvs-changes thing _always_ sleeps 60 after a build round
08:28:12B4gder60 seconds
08:28:23B4gderso it never detects any changes until 60 seconds after a complete build
08:28:38*amiconn wonders whether adding that virtual directory idea instead of having a separate tagdb browser mode also counts as a new feature
08:28:49CassandraI think I'd like to drop one of VU meter and osciloscope.
08:29:12Cassandraamiconn - if you do it, just make sure I'm looking the other way at the time. ;)
08:29:21amiconnB4gder: The observed delay was much longer than 60 seconds when it hit me
08:29:43amiconn(that was saturday, not yesterday)
08:29:51amiconnThink it was 5 minutes or so
08:30:00Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Virtual directory idea?
08:30:19Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Is that "A folder in your root, that is in essence the Tagdb?"
08:30:21midkayCassandra, @ vu/oscilloscope - what?
08:30:26B4gderamiconn: well, it is of course those 131 seconds (or so) and then the additional 60 seconds
08:30:27amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: yes
08:30:40CassandraI propose dropping one of osciloscope and VU meter. I appreciate they're not the same, but they're both "proof of concept" rather than useful app.
08:30:48JdGordoncan any1 help with key configs?
08:30:54CassandraAnd proof of essentially the same concept.
08:30:55midkayproof of concept in what way? they're both fully-featured plugins..
08:31:05Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: My vote is for in TagDB you have the bottom line be "File Browser" so that you can access the files from TagDB, but if you prefer just the file browser don't even really see evidence of it.
08:31:07midkaywhich do the same basic thing, in a very different way.
08:31:14amiconnI agree with midkay
08:31:29amiconnvu_meter needs fixing for the higher display resolutions though
08:31:31midkayno reason to get rid of them, binary size is unaffected, they're just addons..
08:31:39amiconna *lot* of plugins still do, btw
08:31:54midkayamiconn, i'd enjoy adapting VU meter for larger displays.
08:32:01midkayi have a few changes/updates i want to do to it as well..
08:32:07Cassandramidkay, every plugin we remove is less code to test and support.
08:32:30CassandraThis doesn't mean that we should be seeking to remove plugins that add useful functionality though.
08:32:30midkayCassandra, test? nobody has to test anything.. i dunno about support. they both work fine.. what's the support problem?
08:32:40amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: The virtual directory would only be there if the db is present.
08:32:49midkaywell, games aren't "useful".. let's get rid of them all! ;)
08:33:00Cassandramidkay, they do have to be tested, if only to ensure they run correctly on all targets.
08:33:14midkayum, "check" for 5G..
08:33:25midkayi'm sure we'll get bug reports for ones that don't work on certain targets.
08:33:37Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Fair enough. Only reason I suggested it, is that it seems more intuitive to me the way I suggested. Since I don't really use TagCache, I don't really have a lot of feeling invested in it either way. :)
08:33:38CassandraWell, supported targets. And they have to be fixed if they don't.
08:33:44CassandraThat's the support work.
08:34:14midkayeverybody fixes everything.. amiconn basically rewrote oscilloscope, for example, and i know he must have tested it on an iriver..
08:34:28midkayi'm sure he could handle any potential bugs if nobody else.
08:34:58midkaythat's like saying we should disable tagcache because it's not entirely working yet... yes, bugs happen, but you get nowhere if you don't try..
08:34:59Cassandramidkay, I gave up suggesting we remove one of them about a page ago.
08:35:09midkayCassandra, now you're suggesting removing others, or what?
08:35:12CassandraI'm just explaining why less plugins is good.
08:35:14amiconnmidkay: Oscilloscope is tested on all my targets (that it runs on, i.e. except player)
08:35:32midkayamiconn, which is.. recorder, ondio.. H100?.. mini, if that's going yet?
08:35:34 Quit DJ_Dooms_Day (Connection timed out)
08:35:56amiconnmidkay: recorder v1, Ondio SP, Ondio FM, H140, H340, mini
08:35:59midkayCassandra, removing ones that aren't really working i don't object to.. but anything that's there and expected to be working should stay, IMO.
08:36:10midkayamiconn, oh, didn't know you had an H300. cool. :)
08:36:27*amiconn now has 7 rockboxes, all different
08:36:43midkayi still only have two..
08:36:45Cassandramidkay, currently snake, one of Bounce or Logo, Mosaique,
08:37:11midkaybounce is a bit weirded out on my 5G. mosaique works fine and it should.. logo also does, and it also should.
08:37:24midkaysnake works too, and it should. :) just maybe could use a bit of sizing for larger LCDs..
08:37:36 Join jbauman [0] (
08:37:46CassandraAnd Search and Databox to be missed from 3.0 but return in 3.1
08:38:02midkayi'm fine with that, since i never use them..
08:38:07Cassandramidkay, snake is redundant. Snake2 does everything snake does and more.
08:38:23 Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@
08:39:41CassandraI'm proposing removing mosaique and demystify on the grounds that Rockbox graphics capability has moved on. Fire, Mandelbrot, Cube etc are all better demos.
08:40:12Slasherii think the bugs caused some crashes with tagcache loaded in ram, should have been fixed now
08:40:13amiconnbounce (on targets with rtc) has a fixed sine table that needs to be changed into using a sine function for variable resolution
08:40:15midkayCassandra, @ snake/snake2, that's cool. there's a snake2 patch on the tracker which is very good, scales it to all LCD sizes..
08:40:19Slasherithere was a division by zero case
08:40:30midkayamiconn, i can also handle that, since i use a circle generator in the clock.. simple
08:40:34Slasheriand buffer overflow in the mp3 metadata parser
08:40:38Cassandramidkay - excellent. That should be commited for 3.0.
08:40:58midkayCassandra, and in full color, yes, it's quite nice. :)
08:41:08CassandraDoes anyone feel strongly about keeping bounce?
08:41:09amiconnCassandra: 'search' has nothing to do with the db. It was disabled by Slasheri by mistake. I reenabled it
08:41:22amiconn'search' just searches m3u playlists
08:41:39Cassandraamiconn, oh, in that case I take it back for search.
08:41:53midkayCassandra, me, in a way.. i just don't see why you'd want to remove it. i'll scale it for all LCD sizes and it should be pretty cool..
08:41:54amiconnCassandra: You mean 'searchengine' and databox
08:42:14Cassandraamiconn, yes, thank you.
08:43:00midkayCassandra, my POV is that "if it's working fine it should stay", in general..
08:43:08Cassandramidkay - OK. Bounce stays for now then.
08:43:09amiconnCassandra: I don't see why we should remove any of the plugins from the package except the ones which are targeted at developers only
08:43:29 Join ender` [0] (i=ychat@
08:43:30amiconn(which is already done - helloworld and grayscale)
08:43:30midkayi'll probably do a lot of scaling for different targets now that the feature freeze is in effect and there's nothing much else to do except bugfixes..
08:43:52 Join einhirn [0] (
08:44:00Cassandraamiconn, it's a quality thing, I feel. Now we have more plugins I think we can afford to be pickier about what we ship with Rockbox.
08:44:25midkayCassandra, and "demystify" - i can't recall if that's scaled for all targets, but i'd like to add color support to it and another mode in which there could be multiple trails bouncing around. maybe then it'd be a bit easier to want to keep.
08:44:27amiconnBounce should just use a quick fixed-point sine like a number of other plugins do.
08:44:53amiconnmidkay: demystify properly scales. Only colours/ grayshades are missing
08:45:05midkaythat's another thing i'd like to do then..
08:45:15CassandraI don't feel particularly strongly about removing the graphics demos. If people want them, lets keep them.
08:45:37midkaythey're fun to have, i think.. even if just for a few seconds of entertainment before you never touch them again.. ;)
08:46:00amiconnSome of the demanding gfx demos need to be revised because they sometimes don't yield enough, so playback is disturbed
08:46:10amiconn(e.g. fire)
08:46:34CassandraIn that case, I think we're just losing snake (permenantly), databox and searchengine.
08:46:42JdGordonok, done. all fixed
08:46:49JdGordoncept it needs some key defines
08:48:27 Quit cismo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:48:30CassandraAnd testing on the Archos and H100 sims.
08:48:41midkayJdGordon, what?
08:49:16JdGordontext editor plugin.. hopeing to make it in b4 the freeze
08:49:17midkayCassandra, i'd agree with that.. rename snake2 to just "snake" also..
08:49:18Bg3rJdGordon any progress ?
08:49:24midkayJdGordon, um.. you have 11 minutes on my end.
08:49:34Cassandramidkay, yep.
08:49:46midkaybut i'd love to see it in. once in a while i really need to edit something and i have to boot to ipodlinux to do it.. ugh. :)
08:49:52Bg3rCassandra and battery_test ?
08:49:56amiconnThe freeze should already be in effect, if we're strict
08:50:10midkayamiconn, well, i think a few hours of slack should be tolerable :)
08:50:23CassandraBg3r, good point. Battery_benchmark is better, isn't it?
08:50:28amiconnIt said 0:00 CET (which even gave us 1 hour more as was probably intended)
08:50:45midkayamiconn, ah. :)
08:50:51Bg3rCassandra at least it should be :P
08:51:13JdGordon even
08:51:20*Cassandra nods. I think the editor is useful, so I'm for an exception being made, but only if it's demonstrably 99% working on all platforms (player excepted).
08:51:50JdGordonit works on all targets that the list works on.. except it needs button mappings first..
08:51:54midkayCassandra, ouch.. apparently it needs a few button mappings.. :)
08:52:02midkayJdGordon, well, i could define a few..
08:52:22JdGordoni need select, menu and quit/cancel
08:52:30*amiconn demands it has to work on the player ;)
08:52:32midkayRECORDER_PAD - select: BUTTON_PLAY; menu - BUTTON_F1; quit - BUTTON_OFF.. :)
08:52:54Cassandramidkay: if you would do that and test in the sims, I'm happy to withdraw my objections to letting it in before the freeze.
08:53:13midkayCassandra, i have a recorder i could test it on..
08:53:24Cassandramidkay, excellent. Even better.
08:53:36amiconnBtw, a number of plugins recently got menus. These seem to be custom made. they behave rather inconsistently :/
08:53:46Bg3ramiconn yeah :(
08:53:48midkayamiconn, what?
08:53:51JdGordonok all we need is ondio, iriver_ifp7xx_pad X5 and gigabeat
08:53:53Bg3rlike jewels
08:53:59Bg3rrockboy ..
08:53:59amiconnsolitaire, jewels, ...
08:54:07midkay*cough* clock *cough*
08:54:11XavierGrabout the snake2 plugin. I made the adaption for the H100 screen so I can make the adaption for other screens too. If noone has any objections
08:54:21CassandraRight. Going forever: snake, BatteryTest. Going till 3.1: SearchEngine, Databox, Being renamed: Snake -> Snake2
08:54:22PiXEL8more codecs =)
08:54:25midkaybut i kind of need my menus!! to have animations and custom cursors and bitmaps and crap.
08:54:29CassandraErm Snake2 -> Snake
08:54:44CassandraXavierGr, none at all.
08:54:58JdGordoncustom menus suk!
08:55:11Cassandraamiconn, 3.1 issue, I feel.
08:55:24 Join damaki [0] (
08:55:32CassandraIt's sub optimal, but lets live with it for now.
08:55:51Bg3rhm, do you think that proper plugin resizings should be considered as bugfixes?
08:56:02*Cassandra is determined to get out a release on May 1st if we possibly can.
08:56:08CassandraBg3r, absolutely.
08:56:22midkaybtw, what are the chances of getting iPods supported in 3.0? none? i use rockbox daily on my 5G, i've tested everything there is to test really.. by the end of the freeze it's probably going to be working as well as any irivers..
08:56:40JdGordonCassandra: thats a month away.. relllaaaax... itl be ready in 2 weeks...
08:56:50XavierGrwell I have to go. Later all
08:56:52amiconnCassandra: You think so?
08:56:53 Quit XavierGr ()
08:56:55Bg3rJdGordon u don't believe yourself, yep ? ;)
08:57:13Bg3rJdGordon are you using all these gui funcs ?
08:57:25amiconnI'd say consistent UI behaviour is pretty important, and consider such changes bugfixes
08:57:25Bg3rthat u've added to the plugin api
08:57:51Bg3rme too
08:57:59PiXEL8since there are more ppl here, any word on the tracker and sid codecs?
08:58:03amiconnmidkay: iPod has a long way to go until it's ready for release
08:58:06Cassandraamiconn, that plugin resizings are bugfixes? Yes. I'd rather we didn't ship any plugins with the wrong screen size in 3.0. It looks naff, and it shouldn't be too hard to fix.
08:58:09midkayamiconn, in what way?
08:58:16B4gderPiXEL8: sure, go ahead and make them
08:58:16 Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
08:58:25amiconnCassandra: Yes, these too. But I meant the menu issue
08:58:35CassandraBear in mind that screen size fixes are only needed for 3.0 supported platforms.
08:58:41PiXEL8right B4gder hehe
08:58:55midkayJdGordon, what do i do to have text_editor.c created? parameteres?
08:59:00B4gderthere's no "hehe" here actually
08:59:16Bg3rJdGordon u've only added txt,rocks/text_editor, 55 55 55 55 55 55 yep ?
08:59:18B4gdernobody is working on any tracker or sid codec
08:59:27B4gderand I don't see it happen anytime soon
08:59:31JdGordonmidkay: it should compile automatically... if it patched correctly
08:59:32B4gderunless someone steps forward
08:59:34Cassandraamiconn, oh, right. I think the menus work now, and effort spent fixing them might be better spent on other features.
08:59:35JdGordonBg3r: yup
08:59:53CassandraDo you disagree? Is it more serious than I think?
09:00:15amiconnLinusN, Bagder: The battery definitions in the config-* files are rather limiting nowadays. Like, we have several targets using LiIon/LiPoly now, which all have almost identical discharge curves, but different capacities
09:00:24midkayJdGordon, i mean how do you suggest patching it?
09:00:39LinusNamiconn: yes, those should probably be replaced with target specific defines
09:00:42JdGordonpatch -p0 < text_editor.patch
09:01:18midkayi always forget the -p0
09:01:19amiconnWe should probably change that into only distinguishing between different fundamental characteristics (and turned into a multi-value CONFIG_), and the min/max capacities as extra #defines
09:01:33Bg3rmidkay i'm going to commit it
09:01:39midkayBg3r, commit what?
09:01:48Bg3rmidkay: please, tell me the button defines again
09:01:50Bg3rtext editor
09:01:57midkayRECORDER_PAD - select: BUTTON_PLAY; menu - BUTTON_F1; quit - BUTTON_OFF.. :)
09:02:07JdGordonBg3r: if u commit it it will break the buidl for he ondio and x5 builds...
09:02:33midkayplugin buffer is full for recorder, with it..
09:02:53midkayBg3r, i'd hold off..
09:03:08midkaystill missing a number of defines and apparently it's too big to fit in some buffers..
09:03:22CassandraOh dear.
09:03:28JdGordonreally? wow
09:03:50JdGordonhow small is the plugin buffer on the recorder?
09:04:02JdGordonoh ok
09:04:13Bg3rmidkay just saw that
09:04:16midkaybut keep in mind it compiles at different sizes for different targets..
09:05:21CassandraI think we'll freeze now then, unless there are any objections. We'll try to get the editor in the dailies from shortly after 3.0 release. Opinions?
09:05:41JdGordonok, simple fix for the plugin buffer problem
09:05:41midkayJdGordon, looks rather small and efficient, i have no idea why it doesn't fit.. large variables? many? *scours*
09:05:52midkayCassandra, i object ;) i think the text editor will take less than a day..
09:06:01Bg3rCassandra i object too ...
09:06:03B4gderI say we freeze
09:06:12JdGordonmidkay: #define MAX_LINES needs to be moved up to the keybad config area and changed to 128 for recorder
09:06:13midkaywe have a whole month to fix bugs, and it's one independent plugin...
09:06:16JdGordonthen it should work fine
09:06:16B4gderthere will be a bazillion "oh only this little thing too" issues
09:06:31midkayB4gder, i don't think so... this is the last "major" change, i'd agree to that..
09:06:50B4gderyou think it is that, sure. Just wait and see ;-)
09:06:53midkayif it were a rockbox feature, i'd probably object. but it's a standalone, plugin, and it's soo close.. :)
09:07:02B4gderwe do this dance during every release
09:07:04midkayJdGordon has toiled over this code for months!!
09:07:20midkayand you REJECT it because it's TWO MINUTES LATE! *goes on a rampage*
09:07:21JdGordonB4gder: its not like im much help on the core anyway.. so its not taking time away from the release...
09:07:41*JdGordon bbl
09:07:44B4gderno? you're just now using midkay's and Bg3r's time
09:07:47Paul_The_NerdDoes it matter if the text editor is part of 3.0, or made available 30 minutes after release?
09:07:53B4gderand you just said it didn't do the keymaps properly
09:07:56B4gderwhich also takes time
09:08:04B4gderthere's no such thing as "won't take time"
09:08:05midkayB4gder, a few minutes, yes..
09:08:50 Join ender1 [0] (i=ychat@
09:09:45midkayi could even suggest keymappings for ondio and iaudio if that gets it in..
09:09:47midkayand refine them later..
09:09:48B4gderthen I don't think we can freeze until the editor goes in
09:09:50midkayodd logic, but .. :)
09:10:07B4gderI don't want us freeze and then break the freeze within minutes
09:10:23midkayB4gder, if the freeze begins i won't advocate breaking it.
09:10:23B4gderit'll make a very bad prejudice
09:10:37midkayi just hope it won't begin..
09:10:38Bg3rB4gder than just wait a little for the freeze :)
09:11:09B4gderand what is "a little" here?
09:11:22midkayBg3r, got it working for recorder or what?
09:11:31midkaygot to make the NUM_LINES target specific..
09:11:39 Quit damaki__ (Connection timed out)
09:11:40B4gderit doesn't sound like minutes on you, but I might be misinterpreting you
09:11:52Bg3rmidkay no,i'll base it on PLUGIN_BUFFER_SIZE
09:11:58midkayBg3r, that's good.
09:12:05 Quit ender` (Connection timed out)
09:12:05midkayi could whip up some key suggestions if you like
09:12:11midkayand then i guess it's ready..
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09:14:03 Join nudel [0] (
09:14:31Bg3rmidkay yes ?
09:14:49midkayIAUDIO_X5_PAD: menu - BUTTON_PLAY; select - BUTTON_SELECT; cancel = BUTTON_POWER
09:14:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:15:05midkaythat looks like as good as it gets.. from reading a list of button definitions at least. :)
09:15:34midkayso that should be it, right?
09:15:41midkaywe need gigabeat buttons?
09:16:13CassandraThere's no official gigabeat build yet. You're OK on that score.
09:16:39CassandraJust test as widely as you can to make sure nothing is going to leap up and bite us on the arse.
09:16:40midkaygood. that ought to be it then..
09:16:50midkayi'm testing on recorder right now.. *unplugs USB*
09:17:49LinusNi am quite worried about the h300 freeze period
09:17:58midkayhm, apparently text_editor isn't added to viewers.config wherever that is..
09:18:08LinusNtoo many people run the experimental version
09:18:22LinusNand we can not get any valid feedback on stability
09:18:36goffa__linus... saw your reply to my post
09:18:42midkayput out a request to use the official build and report any bugs possible if you can?
09:18:42B4gderthat's always an issue with the MR and h300 crowds
09:18:45goffa__quick menu doesn't work on the x5
09:18:53goffa__and party mode queues the file at the end
09:18:56LinusNgoffa: then *that* is your problem
09:19:11B4gderof course party mode adds it to the end
09:19:25LinusNB4gder: i'd not say "of course"
09:19:30B4gderI do
09:19:30Bg3rmidkay are there other possibilities for ondio ?
09:19:38B4gderit makes no sense to add it as next
09:19:43midkayBg3r, what? not really, no..
09:19:47B4gdernot if it is meant to be used by "anyone" at a party
09:19:53midkaythere's only left, right, up, down, menu and off.
09:19:58B4gderas then it'll just be a struggle on who adds someting last
09:19:59midkayso dual-using menu is the only option
09:20:03CassandraLinusN: Not sure what we can do about that.
09:20:04 Join petur [0] (
09:20:06goffa__here's my intention
09:20:17LinusNparty mode has one obvious drawback, and that is that the playlist will soon be longer than the party itself
09:20:18CassandraWe just don't have that many devs with H300s.
09:20:22goffa__when i browse for a file... i just want to play it.. sometimes i bump the right button
09:20:30goffa__that basically erases current playlist
09:20:39B4gderLinusN: yes, but changing the queue position doesn't fix that
09:20:53LinusNB4gder: no, not really
09:21:10 Join Jambon [0] (
09:21:15Jambonanyone up?
09:21:22LinusNJambon: not a single soul
09:21:24B4gderwe'd have to add a "party length" option and start cutting the songs to get them all to fit during the party ;-)
09:21:31LinusNB4gder: hahaha
09:21:40LinusNJambon: that was a jokw
09:21:42B4gderthe more songs, the shorter
09:21:49Bg3rmidkay what about ifp ?
09:21:50Jambonif i install rockbox, does it uninstall the original ipod firmware?
09:22:04CassandraB4gder, I vote for AI that removes the worst songs from the playlist so it fits. ;)
09:22:12CassandraJambon, no.
09:22:15Paul_The_NerdJambon: It coexists.
09:22:18midkayBg3r, it's not woring either, so you can disable building for it..
09:22:20Jambonfun fun
09:22:25B4gderah "party mode that automatically removes bad choices"
09:22:33Bg3r:D lol
09:22:42Paul_The_NerdBg3r: The ifp needs to pick a plugin buffer size thats appropriate first.
09:22:45Jamboni just want to be able to use my ipod mic with it
09:22:58Jambonnot sure if it'll work since it's an ipod specific device
09:23:01CassandraWe could even get the voice you UI to say "I'm sorry Dave, you have crap taste in music."
09:23:09peturJambon: unsupported atm
09:23:17amiconnLinusN: Any news on that H300 power issue?
09:23:21CassandraJambon, not currently, no.
09:23:22Paul_The_NerdB4gder: What's that, one that automatically scans the playlist for (Genre == "Hair Metal")?
09:23:30midkayBg3r, i have to go to bed. good luck with that..
09:23:42midkayit isn't added to viewers.config by default, by the way.
09:23:42Paul_The_NerdOr some other equally terrifying pseudogenre
09:23:43Bg3rmidkay haha 10x
09:23:52*B4gder ducks
09:23:56midkaynor does it zip to /.rockbox/viewers
09:24:01*JdGordon back, all cleared up?
09:24:09Bg3rJdGordon trying it atm...
09:24:40midkaybtw. if you could manage to get the audio buffer, it'd help a lot with large files.. or maybe only get the buffer if no music is playing..
09:24:56midkayreally need to go anyways, night all
09:25:25Jambonhow do I add songs with rockbox?
09:25:31Bg3ri upped the max_lines to 2048
09:25:35B4gderJambon: you don't
09:25:42B4gderJambon: you play songs with Rockbox
09:25:48Bg3rhuh ?
09:25:58Bg3rdoom doesn't build
09:26:00Bg3ron h300
09:26:03Bg3ror it's only me
09:26:13Jambonso i just add songs as i normally do, with itunes, winamp, vpod, ephpod, etc?
09:26:26B4gderJambon: most people just drag and drop
09:26:44amiconnBg3r: Iirc there's a clash in doom when you include the gui headers in plugin.h
09:26:45goffa__Jambon: are you talking about a playlist?
09:26:45B4gderput them anywhere anyhow you like
09:26:55amiconnThat might not be easily solvable
09:27:24Jambonno i mean generally adding music to the ipod
09:27:32goffa__oh.. ok
09:27:32amiconnJambon: Thing is, rockbox does neither need nor use the itunes db
09:27:51CassandraJambon, just copy your files onto the iPod disk.
09:27:56amiconnIt just plays music files you put on your iPod, in the directory structure of your choice
09:27:57goffa__then B4gder is right
09:28:18goffa__open my computer or explorer and slap files where you want them
09:28:23Jambonoh so even if i manage it with itunes rockbox will still work?
09:28:30Bg3rkkurbjun are you here ?
09:28:32amiconnJust use windows explorer or another file management tool of your choice, and copy the files
09:28:45LinusNamiconn: no, i have no news regarding the power consumption
09:29:18*Cassandra wonders if we're going to have to drop the Doom plugin before 3.0.
09:29:32CassandraIt really ought to work on H1xx too if it's going to stay in.
09:29:57CassandraBecause there's no good reason why it shouldn't.
09:30:00Paul_The_NerdIt really ought to work on at least two color targets. :-P
09:30:08LinusNthe euroconverter is player only, and it's still in
09:30:29LinusNplenty of plugins that only work on some platforms
09:30:29CassandraPaul_The_Nerd, 3.0 only has one colour target.
09:30:58CassandraLinusN, I regard player plugins as a special case, since there really aren't that many of them.
09:31:21CassandraPretty much everything else works on every supported platform that has the necessary hardware.
09:32:29 Join bluebrother^ [0] (
09:32:50Paul_The_NerdCassandra: Oh, right, 3.0. Hehehe
09:34:04CassandraLinusN: If the issue that amiconn raised isn't fixable, that might also cause problems with Doom.
09:34:26amiconnCassandra: No, that issue prevents the text editor to go in...
09:34:37Cassandraamiconn: Oh, right.
09:35:17amiconnLinusN, Cassandra: I think the player deserves some exclusive plugins since it doesn't have that many plugins at all
09:35:48amiconnFor the bitmap plugins, I'd demand they should work on all targets they can
09:36:29amiconnLinusN: A question regarding target tree: How would it be possible to gradually migrate a target to using target tree?
09:37:02amiconnI mean, as soon as I migrate one feature (e.g. power management) to target tree, I have to define TARGET_TREE
09:37:23 Nick ender1 is now known as ender` (i=ychat@
09:37:58amiconn...but then every #ifdef TARGET_TREE in other, not yet migrated parts (e.g. lcd drivers) triggers, which isn't what we need...
09:38:12Cassandraamiconn, that's my opinion too, although I'd have no objection to someone porting the euroconverter to other targets if they want to,
09:38:37amiconnI'm thinking about clearing up powermgmt, as it's currently a huge mess.
09:38:42JdGordonCassandra: u mean after the freeze??
09:38:48JdGordonor during.. ?
09:39:30CassandraJdGordon, I think I'd prefer after, although technically it fits into the bugfix category. That's an edge case.
09:41:25JdGordonto fix the doom incompatibilty u can just add #define screens Screens to line 74 of v_video.h and it works fine.. and u dont have to fiddle in the other files .. (temp simple fix...)
09:42:38 Part Paul_The_Nerd
09:43:54LinusNamiconn: i think you could "cheat" and not define TARGET_TREE until you're done
09:45:00LinusNand use the target defines
09:47:36amiconnHmm, but then the appropriate paths aren't added, so I can't use .h files placed in the target tree?
09:48:52 Quit Jambon ("Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox 1.0.6/20050716]")
09:50:03bluebrother^shouldn't the id3 viewer renamed to "metadata viewer"? As most players support a lot of other formats than mp3 now.
09:50:59amiconntag viewer, I'd say
09:51:24amiconnI already did that internally, in the english.lang string grouping comment
09:51:42bluebrother^nice. I think this should be in 3.0
09:52:07amiconnTag viewer is also not 100% correct since the data it displays is not only derived from the tags,
09:52:19amiconnbut 'metadata viewer' sounds too technical, imho
09:52:29B4gderplain "file info" perhaps?
09:52:43bluebrother^hmm. What data isn't from the tags? Playing time?
09:52:48LinusN"track info"
09:52:51amiconnThat's also not 100% correct
09:53:04amiconn(directed @ B4gder)
09:53:12amiconnYeah, track info
09:53:17B4gderwell, it doesn't need to be 100% correct
09:53:20 Join Alethir [0] (
09:53:49bluebrother^track info sounds good.
09:54:00amiconnbluebrother^: Playing time, format
09:54:08bluebrother^I'm trying to get a bit the "end user viewpoint" for the manual
09:54:30 Quit merbanan ("Gone fisting")
09:54:34JdGordonshouldnt doom look in .rockbox/doom instead of games/doom ?
09:54:41amiconnB4gder: Will we se langv2 today?
09:54:49B4gderI think so
09:54:52bluebrother^and I guess a lot of users will be "uh? id3? I'm playing a {wav,ogg,flac,...}"
09:55:27bluebrother^so track info sounds a lot better.
09:55:27amiconnbluebrother^: Yes, I'd say we should change it to 'track info'. Something for the langv2 english.lang rework stage...
09:55:43bluebrother^is langv2 scheduled for 3.0?
09:55:51JdGordonum... does doom work in the sim?
09:55:54bluebrother^nice :)
09:56:41amiconnI will probably do a lot of lcd code cleanup involving target tree migration, in preparation of adding viewports and stuff
09:57:10amiconnI have to rewrite lcd-2bit-horz.c anyway
10:00:42bluebrother^amiconn: do you know where I can get big images of the newer players? The DeviceChart page does only link some.
10:00:57LinusNi'd like to see a backdrop browser
10:01:08LinusNlike wps, themes and fonts
10:01:56*bluebrother^ just noticed the iaudio is missing from the DeviceChart
10:02:19B4gderbluebrother^: yeps, I've thought about that too...
10:03:36amiconnbluebrother^: The ones not linked are mockups, the others are real scan or high-res photos
10:03:43*amiconn just added mini 2g yesterday
10:04:26B4gderbtw, does the mini2g manual build fine now?
10:04:33 Join darkless [0] (
10:04:45Bg3rB4gder some more tests and i'll commit it
10:05:01 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
10:05:10bluebrother^so has anyone actually made pictures from the newer devices like ipod and iaudio?
10:05:17amiconnB4gder: preglow said he could test on a mini 1g soonish. If that test turns out well, I'll unify the mini builds and make them adjust at runtime
10:05:30B4gderok, cool
10:06:03bluebrother^B4gder: I changed all screenshots to use the new \screenshot macro and adjusted that not to fail if images are missing. So it builds fine.
10:06:21*B4gder considers adding a daily manual for the mini2g too
10:06:33amiconnI will also change the plugin & codec loader again to use your 4-letter identifier instead of the numerical target id from configure
10:06:43bluebrother^I'm building regularly since that change now −− but most of the pictures are missing.
10:07:00amiconnThis is cleaner, and allows sorting the list in configure
10:07:31B4gderamiconn: sorting the list is still painful due to all our automatic scripts
10:07:45bluebrother^B4gder: I also noticed you're building separate manuals for h100 and h120 −− the manuals are identical.
10:07:59B4gderah, right
10:08:15B4gderbut h100 and h120 users are used to pick different ones
10:08:19bluebrother^btw, you can count the number of missing images when building the manual.
10:08:25B4gderI think that's why I did it that way
10:08:27amiconnbluebrother^, B4gder: I'll try to scan my H340 today
10:08:33bluebrother^maybe just link them together?
10:08:40B4gdera good idea
10:09:52bluebrother^if you want to you can look for lines saying "Missing image: <foo>"
10:10:26bluebrother^I still need a screenshot of the id3 screen from the player.
10:10:31B4gderI'll look into producing a little table with that info
10:10:45bluebrother^that'd be great
10:11:54bluebrother^I made some ugly hack for myself counting missing images, warnings about boxes and references.
10:11:57amiconnbluebrother^: Ah, that issue. Maybe I can have a shot at implementing screenshot for the player sim
10:12:33bluebrother^I hope we'll manage to remove all warnings soon.
10:13:07peturfound a small error in the H3x0 manual: 2.3.1 WPS Key Controls: the last one (to go to Main menu) should be A-B, not Navi
10:14:13bluebrother^amiconn: I just noticed the "list bookmarks screen" is also missing. Would be great if you could do that.
10:14:37peturalso: when describing the main menu, wouldn't it be good to write there how it can be reached?
10:15:39bluebrother^petur: I agree with you, but the manual has a lot of quirks now. I guess we'll need a different progress table.
10:16:00bluebrother^a lot of menus are out of date ... e.g. the pitch screen isn't mentioned anywhere.
10:16:23*petur is just reading the manual for his device for the first time
10:16:29peturnice work so far!
10:16:54bluebrother^atm my goal is to clean the latex code up to make maintaining easier.
10:17:16bluebrother^recently some macros for this have been introduced, but they also should be used ;-)
10:17:26 Join Jambon [0] (
10:17:30Bg3rpetur yeah :)
10:17:32 Join paugh [0] (n=kickback@2001:5c0:8fff:ffff:8000:0:3e03:6822)
10:17:56peturhahaha... Brightness: Changes the contrast of your LCD display
10:17:56Jambonuh, do i NEED the ipod firmware on the ipod to isntall rockbox, or can i just strainght instal rockbox from a formatted ipod?
10:18:18FebsWhoops. That one is my fault
10:18:29Bg3rFebs :P
10:18:31Febscopy/paste error!
10:18:59*petur only makes copy/paste errors when programming :(
10:19:39 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:19:48bluebrother^petur: I'll look into the button you mentioned later. Got to go now.
10:20:19 Quit Jambon (Client Quit)
10:21:39peturRockblox should be replaced by tetrox on targets where it runs on
10:28:38 Quit Febs ()
10:28:57 Quit tvelocity ("Ex-Chat")
10:31:02peturwow, license is 8 pages
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10:33:13 Join RedBreva [0] (
10:34:54 Join muesli__ [0] (n=muesli_t@
10:35:10RedBrevaIs there anyone about with an X5 ?
10:36:05LinusNi have one
10:36:33LinusN(for some reason) :-)
10:36:57 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
10:36:58RedBrevaAnychance you could tell the missing keypresses for FM & Recording so I can update the manual?
10:37:18LinusNtime will tell :-)
10:37:49LinusNsince the fm and recording isn't implemented
10:38:15RedBrevaAh! Should I \opt it out for X5 at present then?
10:38:35LinusNnah, just write TBD for the buttons
10:38:41LinusNas a teaser :-9
10:38:50RedBrevaOK.. ;-)
10:39:14RedBrevaSo no chance of any screen shots for those screens then :D
10:39:21LinusNhehe, no
10:43:41RedBrevaLinusN: In the debug section it specifically warns agains using the Screenshot option... is there any point? Sure the Dump contents, sound test etc., but screenshot?
10:46:47LinusNi'm surprised
10:48:06 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
10:48:12bluebrother^RedBreva: it's becaused the screenshot option changes the usb behaviour.
10:48:36bluebrother^iirc setting the screendump to on makes a screenshot every time a usb connect is detected.
10:48:55bluebrother^changing this can irritate the "normal" end user.
10:49:12RedBrevaAh OK, cool - Worth mentioning that specifically then?
10:49:18bluebrother^as they will come up like "my players usb is broken"
10:49:49bluebrother^maybe we should explain the debug menu more detailled in the appendix −− like "advanced users only"
10:50:36bluebrother^I also want to add something like "about this manual"
10:50:40Cassandrabluebrother^, nope. Keep the manual for end users.
10:51:02CassandraThat's something for a Rockbox technical / programmers manual if someone ever decides to write one.
10:51:12LinusNi agree
10:51:44LinusNin fact, that section in the manual should not mention any specific debug menu items
10:51:56RedBrevaGood idea.. How about I make a start on the debug menu text - just in notepad - and when it has a home, I can populate it?
10:52:02LinusNthat makes it sound like the other items are safe to use
10:52:12JdGordonok, u can go and freeze it now :D
10:52:36CassandraDid you commit?
10:52:54Bg3rnow blame me ...
10:52:58CassandraCool. Has it built OK?
10:53:06*LinusN regrets that he didn't commit the playlist catalog :-)
10:53:17CassandraWe forgive you, Linus.
10:53:27CassandraJust try harder next time. ;)
10:53:39Cassandra(What's the playlist catalogue anyway?)
10:53:41JdGordon.. or veto the close and bugger the deadline :D
10:53:52Bg3rCassandra ipod, iriver Hxxx, archoses (wihout the player) all seem to build fine
10:54:01LinusNno, i will just bitch about it and threaten to go back to the original firmware
10:54:24B4gderit sounds like a bag of shit anyway!
10:54:42 Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:54:43CassandraBuilds are taking over five minutes now. That sucks.
10:54:43 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
10:54:51LinusNand it has that lame msdos look
10:55:15JdGordondinner smells almost ready :) bbs
10:55:46 Join bam_ [0] (
10:56:08*Bg3r is unpatient to get scored ...
10:56:09CassandraLinusN: That's not the spirit. You should threaten to sue Rockbox instead.
10:56:29LinusNgood idea, how do i sue someone anonymously?
10:56:58peturBg3r scores zero points
10:57:06Bg3rwhat a shame ...
10:57:08Paul_The_NerdSomeone should start working now, a bit at a time, on a side project that replaces all strings with icons somehow generated from their characters (intentionally looking horrible) so you can release a "Graphical UI" next April 1st.
10:57:25CassandraRight, we are now in feature freeze.
10:57:34Topic"*feature freeze*" by B4gder (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder)
10:57:36 Quit bam_ ("Leaving")
10:57:44*Paul_The_Nerd does the feature freeze dance.
10:57:56*LinusN joins Paul_The_Nerd
10:58:07*petur puts on his polartec fleece
10:58:27B4gder... just when the snow starts to melt here
11:00:44Bg3rbtw, can someone with an archos (!= PLAYER) test whether the text editor is ok?
11:03:03LinusNwow, the MPIOHD300 seems to have the same BDM connector as the iriver
11:03:13Paul_The_NerdIsn't that.... convenient.
11:03:52Paul_The_NerdDo you have one, or is that just from research?
11:04:41Paul_The_NerdWell, that qualifies as "research" since I didn't specify "performed by you" :-P
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11:11:46Bg3rLinusN any plans for MPIO ?
11:11:52preglowwaht, i thought the feature freeze was tomorrow :/
11:12:08Cassandrapreglow, nope. Today.
11:12:31B4gderfrom the cowon site: "Display 160 x 128 Pixel, 260,000 color TFT-LCD"
11:12:34LinusNBg3r: no, i just saw the pics in the wiki
11:12:59B4gderhehe, yeah the LCD supports it, but the firmware can't use it ;-)
11:13:18LinusNthat display is a such a fake
11:13:38LinusNthe internal lcd GRAM is 16 bits
11:14:07CassandraThat's a bit dodgy.
11:14:16peturI still find it stupid they put the line-in and usbhost on a subpack (X5) - I would have bought one if they had been on the main unit
11:14:20LinusNand it converts to 18-bit by dithering
11:14:53*LinusN wanders off
11:14:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:15:13*Cassandra prods the email lists.
11:15:35*B4gder waits for the "oh but what about..." mail replies ;-)
11:15:53 Quit _FireFly_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:16:22CassandraB4gder, that sounds like a cue for me to go back to bed. ;)
11:16:50B4gderoh yes, that'll be a trigger for ignore mode ;-)
11:17:00preglowi was planning on commiting the new crossfeed and clickwheel ticking today :/
11:17:19B4gderis that really new features?
11:17:20Paul_The_NerdWell crossfeed is a bug fix, in a way, since nobody likes the volume lessening.
11:17:37preglowwell the last is a new feature, but for ipod, of course
11:17:43preglowblind people seem to want that feature
11:18:20preglowthe crossfeed will bring along a couple of new settings
11:19:43Cassandrapreglow, we can give you a little leeway on the crossfeed settings since you got confused about dates, I think. (Unless anyone objects.)
11:19:44Paul_The_NerdI would still say crossfeed is more bug fix than new feature, just because there's been a lot of complaints caused by crosfeed in general.
11:20:22Paul_The_NerdI've had to field several "Why is rockbox so much quieter than <insert manufacturer here>?" questions that have been answered with a "Try checking if crossfeed is on"
11:20:29Bg3rCassandra haha i thought that the feature freeze is the next monday :D
11:20:44B4gdercurrently we have 28 marked bug reports for 3.0
11:20:47*Cassandra slaps Bg3r.
11:21:02preglowyeah, it is kind of a bug fix
11:21:07CassandraB4gder, I propose to increase that number greatly in the next week.
11:21:15preglowi wouldn't be doing this if the original one didn't get so many complaints
11:21:34Cassandrapreglow, I think a working crossfeed is a 3.0 release goal.
11:22:02preglowaight, then i'll see if i can push it out during the day
11:22:17peturyou have 4 weeks now ;)
11:25:14*Cassandra gives the mailing lists a long hard stare.
11:26:59Paul_The_NerdIs it not working?
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11:29:37Bg3rany news on the langv2 front ?
11:34:59preglowis there still some old tag db code we can remove in rockbox?
11:36:28Paul_The_NerdThat probably needs some auditing.
11:40:46amiconnpreglow: Is that piezo thing a separate driver?
11:43:16amiconnpreglow: I'll probably do some dead code research (function level) by compiling everything with -ffunction-sections -fdata-sections and garbage collection in the linker, then comparing the map file of this with an ordinary build
11:43:27amiconnI did that for archos months ago...
11:45:25amiconnThe tagdb code is another area that needs review. It should be ripped out, and the chunked browsing code needs to be ported to tagcache
11:45:47Paul_The_NerdWhat is chunked browsing?
11:45:47amiconnWe definitely need chunked browsing in 3.0
11:49:44preglowamiconn: no, it's just a button.c hack
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11:50:40preglowPaul_The_Nerd: currently, you can't browse really large lists
11:50:42dwihnoBetter next-next-next handling as well (while playing)
11:50:50dwihnoSuch as 'intro cache fill'
11:50:55dwihnoor whatever it should be called :)
11:51:19preglowthat'll require much surgery to the playback engine and is unusable to boot :P
11:51:53dwihnoIt would be so great! ;)
11:52:02dwihnoThe buffer handling is the same on all ports?
11:52:24 Quit ivan` ("I don't like sand. It's coarse, rough, irritating and it gets everywhere. Not like here. Everything is soft and smooth.")
11:52:26Paul_The_Nerdpreglow: Oh. Does it give an error when you try to view really large lists, or are my lists just not in *that* range of "really large?"
11:52:30amiconnpreglow: I would prefer to not include piezo support as a button.c hack
11:52:44dwihnoWhat is tagcache btw? Some kind of directory cache or similar?
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11:52:59amiconnIt would click everywhere, not even synchronised to the UI
11:53:00Paul_The_Nerddwihno: There's a wiki page for it.
11:53:01 Quit bluebrother^ ("leaving")
11:53:43dwihnoPaul_The_Nerd: thanks
11:54:26peturaaarg... the AGC patch author readies his patch... one day too late :(
11:54:51Paul_The_NerdIt doesn't really *hurt* a patch to enter CVS the day after 3.0
11:54:56linuxstbIs that a swcodec implementation of something available on hwcodec?
11:54:56preglowamiconn: ok
11:55:03preglowamiconn: it is syncronised to the ui
11:55:12preglowbut i really won't have time to do any remodelling of the code right now
11:55:22dwihnoPaul_The_Nerd: so it's useless if you don't have id3tags?
11:55:38linuxstbdwihno: I think it will try and guess the tags from the filename.
11:55:42dwihnoPaul_The_Nerd: some kind of directory cache would be _SO_ swell (on units with more than 2 megs of RAM)
11:55:44peturlinuxstb: I think it should work on all platforms as it uses peakmeter info
11:55:44linuxstb(.. and path)
11:55:49amiconnHow is it synchronised to the ui? It clicks when the event is generated, not when it's used to actually move the list cursor
11:55:50preglowamiconn: the apple firmware does the exact same thing anyway, without people complaining their asses of. it would of course be nicer to have it click only when something is registered
11:55:59Paul_The_Nerddwihno: That's called "Dircache" and I believe it's in Disk Settings
11:56:07dwihnoPaul_The_Nerd: there is a dir cache?
11:56:13*dwihno still runs rockbox from 2005-05 ;)
11:56:15Paul_The_NerdBeen there for a while, yeah. :)
11:56:30dwihnoWhy fix what isn't broken? :)
11:56:50linuxstbpetur: I was just trying to find an excuse to commit it. If the feature was already there in swcodec, we could use that as a reason to add it to hwcodec...
11:56:53dwihnoI gotta update :)
11:56:58linuxstbdwihno: Which player do you have?
11:57:00Paul_The_NerdAye. I only update often so that I can look for bugs.
11:58:08Paul_The_NerdWell, that and answer six billion forum questions about the new features and how to use 'em. Albeit not always as accurately as I'd like to be able to.
11:59:30dwihnolinuxstb: recorder 2 meg
12:00:10dwihnolinuxstb: am getting a new ipod in a matter of days
12:00:43preglowamiconn: but ok, not keeping it in the button driver will require us to add code to just about every place in rockbox and plugins that uses the clickwheel
12:01:05preglowthe net result of this will surely be that at least i wont commit it for a good while
12:01:35pregloweven though i agree it's the better approach
12:01:47amiconnThe problem with clicking for a single button even would e.g. be that it starts to 'ticker' when repeat kicks in
12:02:03amiconn...and that it clicks twice for shortclicks (press-release)
12:02:11preglowoh, but i only handle the wheel
12:02:12preglownot the buttons
12:02:34preglowi don't see the point in handling the buttons, you should feel pretty easily when they have actually been pressed properly
12:02:34amiconnI thought it ticks also for the buttons, like retailos
12:02:47preglownope, just the wheel
12:02:57preglowand this also handles the repeat case
12:02:59Paul_The_NerdRetail ticks for the buttons?
12:03:05preglowi set the piezo click flag in the button isr itself
12:03:18linuxstbAt least on my ipod, the buttons have a firm "click" when you press them. I don't think we need the piezo as well.
12:03:25preglowbut then i don't really know how clickwheel repeat works
12:03:30preglowlinuxstb: mine too
12:03:34amiconnWell, I don't know whether a blind person can feel whether one of the iPod buttons is pressed properly
12:03:52preglowamiconn: you really feel the button giving in when it's pushed
12:03:53amiconnThe buttons have no tactile 'click' feedback
12:04:09preglowif it's quiet, you even hear it
12:04:23Paul_The_Nerdpreglow: Remember, he's got the mini, so it might be a bit different
12:04:37preglowi know, but i think i remember the mini being like that too
12:05:21linuxstbamiconn: Do you have a ruler handy? What is the diameter of your clickwheel?
12:06:03Slasherihmm, soon i have powerful tag filtering at the engine level based on different conditions for numeric and string tags
12:06:13linuxstbMy 4G's wheel is 42mm in diameter. I'm curious if your wheel is the same component, or different.
12:10:15 Quit damaki (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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12:10:44linuxstbSlasheri: Did you see the comments about the Genre tag not working properly?
12:12:26Slasherilinuxstb: Hmm, yes. It would be nice if the numeric genres could be converted to string at the metadata engine
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12:12:40linuxstbSlasheri: There is a function in (I think) id3.c to do that.
12:12:45preglowwell, we've got a complete table of them somewhere
12:12:53Slasheriah, sounds good. i will check that later
12:13:01linuxstbIt returns either the string (if it exists), or the string converted from the numerical value.
12:13:20Slasherinow i have to finish the conditional filtering code before the feature freeze ;)
12:13:32linuxstbDo you have a time machine?
12:13:41Bg3rpreglow yep, the table is in firmware/id3.c (searched for negerpunk:P)
12:14:08Slasherilinuxstb: has the freeze already begun?
12:14:17linuxstbI think so...
12:14:21Slasheriuh.. :/
12:14:30Slasherii thought i had this day to do it..
12:14:41Bg3rSlasheri but the tagcache is a feature for 3.0 ...
12:14:47linuxstbBut maybe porting tagdb features to tagcache is OK.
12:14:53Paul_The_NerdThat's the problem. The very first feature freeze announcement said the 4th, then the later one said the 3rd.
12:14:54preglowBg3r: hahaha
12:14:54Slasheriyes.. so probably i should do that anyway..
12:15:16preglowi thought it was tomorrow too
12:15:25preglowahh, so they changed it...
12:15:42preglowbut yeah, tag cache is a 3.0 release point, so go on
12:15:44Paul_The_NerdThey changed it ages ago, but yes, for a very brief time it was said that it was the 4th
12:15:46preglowdo your thing, heh
12:16:29linuxstbSlasheri: Do you have plans for other tagcache features apart from conditional filtering?
12:16:41linuxstb(I mean for 3.0)
12:16:51Paul_The_NerdYeah, "Disable Tag DB / runtime DB and replace with tagcache" is under "Release Critical"
12:17:37linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: Have you tested tagcache with voice UI on your Nano?
12:18:15linuxstb(I'm wondering about that bug report that's on the TagCache wiki page)
12:18:57Paul_The_NerdLet me just copy over a voice file and see
12:18:59Paul_The_NerdGimme a moment
12:20:46Slasherilinuxstb: not plans for any other big features
12:21:03Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: What's the bug report about?
12:21:08Paul_The_NerdOh, wiki
12:21:09Paul_The_NerdLemme go see
12:21:26Slasherithat conditional filtering would allow user to create entirely own view brach, for example year - artist - album - song with all having optional conditions
12:21:27linuxstbSomeone mentioned it on the ipod forum, so I added it to the wiki page.
12:21:44Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: I have no data abort right now, though my voice file is *completely* wrong with the strings, I would assume because of LangV2 changes
12:22:16Paul_The_NerdIt's spelling out filenames and everything, though I don't recall there being an "X" in Albums anywhere
12:22:18Mikachulinuxstb: maybe you already know but the nano wheel is 30mm
12:22:24linuxstbOK, so we should probably remove that from the wiki page. If someone experiences it, we should ask them to file a proper bug report.
12:22:33Paul_The_NerdYeah. I'll do it, since I'm there
12:23:07linuxstbMikachu: I knew it was different than the 4Gs. Just for the record, the 5g's wheel is 38mm.
12:23:32Paul_The_NerdI'll leave the model specific header, for future potential use.
12:23:34Mikachumaybe you should have the sensitivity depend on model in scrolling lists
12:23:50Mikachubtw i just got home so i have no idea what you're talking about :)
12:24:23linuxstbI think we were talking about piezo sounds on button presses. Currently preglow's only implemented it for the wheel.
12:24:42Mikachui agree it shouldn't be hardcoded in the button driver i think
12:25:51Paul_The_NerdSo, does the "Voice Support" portion of ReleastTodo include making a whole new batch of voice files? And, somewhat related, ever follow up with AT&T?
12:27:05linuxstbI would assume a release requires a new set of voice files.
12:27:27preglowMikachu: but think of the amount of work for doing anything else :/
12:27:33Paul_The_NerdWell, at the moment there are 0 working voice files, even halfway, it seems.
12:27:33preglowall of rockbox would need changing
12:27:52Mikachubut do you want clicking everywhere? not only in treeviews?
12:28:14Paul_The_NerdUntil recently the CVS ones left over from November or whenever, if you had a copy, could be used.
12:30:16linuxstbMikachu: Can you think of anywhere where you don't need it?
12:30:40Mikachumaybe in games etc
12:30:51Mikachubut possibly having a disable_beeps() would be better?
12:33:30preglowor possibly just ignoring it?
12:33:42preglowit's like that in retailos, and it doesn't annoy me too badly
12:35:03preglowit's also very nice to use to count the number of inadvertent volume changes you just did while searching for the next button
12:38:26 Quit quobl_ (Remote closed the connection)
12:38:55Mikachui guess if someone decides to make a piezo driver thing, it's not so hard to remove those 5 lines of code from button.c
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12:41:44amiconnlinuxstb: 37mm
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12:43:45RedBrevaShould the Recording Frequency section of SWCODEC platforms mention MPEG version? given t
12:43:52amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: Voice is all messed up atm because of my .lang rework. Need to make new voice files
12:45:24amiconnWe can provide english voice files created with the ms voices
12:46:29amiconnI need to find out how to tell SAPI what codepage to use, or, if that's impossible, I need a conversion function utf-8->iso8859-1, and voice generation only works for european languages
12:46:45amiconnConversion function for vbscript...
12:47:06Mikachuyou could convert the lang files somewhere else beforehand
12:47:09linuxstbamiconn: OK, thanks. It's useful to know that all the ipods have wheels with different dimensions.
12:47:31Mikachuiconv -f UTF-8 -t latin1 < file > in linux
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13:10:31Mikachushould kbd files go in .rockbox/?
13:11:37linuxstbProbably .rockbox/kbd/ ?
13:11:50linuxstbOr ./rockbox/keyboards/
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13:12:47Mikachu if ( global_settings.kbd_file[0] &&
13:12:47Mikachu global_settings.kbd_file[0] != 0xff ) {
13:12:47Mikachu snprintf(buf, sizeof buf, ROCKBOX_DIR "/%s.kbd",
13:12:47DBUGEnqueued KICK Mikachu
13:12:47Mikachu global_settings.kbd_file);
13:12:47Mikachu load_kbd(buf);
13:13:04B4gderwe should fix that
13:13:24Mikachui'm also a bit unsure about the format of the file
13:13:58CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
13:13:58*Mikachu checks if it's documented in the manual
13:14:07B4gderI doubt that, its too new
13:14:18B4gderI believe its just a range of utf8 characters
13:14:36Mikachuwell, i want to have several pages, and want to break them logically by language
13:15:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:18:38Mikachui'll try a few combinations and see what happens
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13:19:24*petur wonders if he can trust the glitter guy and buy goods from him
13:19:58peturhe's from the uk it seems
13:20:53peturmaybe I can write him that I buy it if he gives his real name and address :D
13:20:57Mikachuhrm, it uses the widest char in the whole file, not just in the current page
13:21:06Bg3rpetur :D
13:21:23peturnice offer btw:
13:25:44Bg3rApril 1st, 2006, 04:17 PM ? :)
13:26:05peturwould it? Oh no!
13:26:11Bg3ri doubt, but :)
13:26:57webguest53considering he followed up on it after the 1st, unlikely
13:27:06peturmust fix my april-1 filter to also work when reading older stuff
13:27:10preglowhe seems a decent enough guy
13:27:25preglowthough he is paranoid, of course
13:27:55Mikachu+ * Backlight PeakMeter Copyright (C) 2006 by gl.tter
13:28:01Mikachucan you have copyright without your real name?
13:28:54markunMikachu: what should happen if your logical keyboard page doesn't fit when you choose a different font?
13:29:08Mikachumarkun: i'm not sure
13:29:19Mikachui would sort of want to define logical pages
13:29:42Mikachubut since the layouts are user settable, it could be left as an exercise to the user to make them fit with a given font
13:30:48markuna newline now forces a new line, but we could change it to force a new page maybe?
13:30:51CassandraMikachu, in the UK at least, copyright is an automatic right. You don't actually need to assert it.
13:31:02Mikachuhm, yeah, in sweden too
13:31:15B4gderits like almost in every country on the planet
13:31:15Mikachubut don't you still need to mark it with your real name, or is a pseudonym enough?
13:31:28Mikachui guess the us has something different, they always do
13:31:28CassandraWhat is this thing with people not wanting people to know their real name anyway?
13:31:30Paul_The_NerdYou don't have to mark it with anything
13:31:43CassandraYeah, what Paul said.
13:31:50Mikachusince he doesn't say who he is, it's sort of hard for him to prove he's glitter
13:32:02B4gderyes, but that's another matter ;-)
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13:32:14Mikachuokay :)
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13:32:20Paul_The_NerdIsn't it "gl.tter"? :-P
13:32:25Mikachui don't mean to start another big debate about it, i was just curious
13:32:37Paul_The_NerdOr something nutty like that.
13:32:38Mikachugl.tter is his fancy way of writing glitter i guess
13:32:59CassandraMikachu, I just don't understand why there's a debate at all.
13:33:01Bg3r haha
13:33:11B4gderit could probably introduce some doubts who actually owns the copyright since I doubt gl.tter is actuall existing as a real legal person anywhere
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13:33:16peturI allways call him Gary btw :D
13:33:25CassandraI mean, I can't see why any Rockbox contributor would need to be in fear of their lives.
13:33:38Paul_The_NerdBg3r: Just... wow.
13:33:49CassandraI mean the RIAA may possibly get totally hardcore at some point, I suppose ....
13:33:50Mikachui think the pattern woudl be completely random
13:33:55preglowCassandra: amiconn might kill me because of my crappy resampler
13:34:00FebsI'd like to see him try to enforce his copyright in court without using his real name.
13:34:14Paul_The_NerdMikachu: I'm guessing it's more like "The phone vibrates in my pocket and rubs the wheel" and that person misunderstood it?
13:34:37Mikachui assumed the electromagnetic field disturbed the capacitance meters in the wheel
13:34:57Cassandrapreglow, *laugh* Well, it's a thought.
13:35:06FebsThat's what I didn't understand about his whole point. "I'm not giving my real name ... oh, but my work is still my copyright."
13:35:24Paul_The_NerdWell, I can blame Rockbox for making my name #2 when I google it.
13:35:41Mikachui'm a hockey player on google
13:35:48*Cassandra has been top hit for her name since forever.
13:35:52Paul_The_NerdI'm an expert on the Titanic.
13:35:55Bg3rhaha Paul_The_Nerd same with me :D
13:36:00CassandraBecause chiark pwns google, or something.
13:36:02*petur feels sorry for bringing up the gl.tter subject again
13:36:15Mikachui think it was my fault
13:36:23Mikachui was only curious about the copyright
13:36:28B4gderbtw, from now on I want to be called D.niel
13:36:40Mikachunot Dan.el?
13:36:40Bg3rB4gder that's cool
13:36:47Bg3rwhy not B.gder ? :D
13:36:54LinusNi invented linux
13:36:55Mikachui'll be M.kael
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13:37:00CassandraB4gder, how about B.ger. That'd be really non-confusing.
13:37:00LinusNaccording to google
13:37:02Mikachuhi L.nus
13:37:14LinusNhi mi.kachu
13:37:26Mikachuhow's the weather in england
13:37:26 Nick Cassandra is now known as The_artist_forme (
13:37:36The_artist_formeBah. Silly limits.
13:37:43F_bsDamn it Cassandra, I was just about to say that!
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13:38:02DBUGEnqueued KICK M
13:38:07Moops, no dots
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13:38:10preglowjust call be T... please
13:38:11Bg3rthat was simple
13:38:16CassandraYou know, Kohlrabi is a wonderful world.
13:38:28 Nick F_bs is now known as Febs (
13:38:35CassandraA friend of mine wrote a book with a character called Mr. Kohlrabi in it.
13:38:39CassandraBut then she's strange.
13:38:45Mikachuis kohlrabi a real word?
13:39:02CassandraIt's a type of vegetable.
13:39:07preglowa tasty one
13:39:09CassandraSort of like cabbage.
13:39:13Mikachuah, i'm not so familiar with vegetables, especially in english
13:39:18preglowkålrabbi in norwegian :)
13:39:38Mikachui don't like vitkål anyway
13:39:45preglownay, with the one b
13:39:55preglowoh, it's quite different from that
13:40:08preglowwe usually make a mash from it
13:40:12preglowdarned tasty
13:40:31preglowit's called the same in swedish, btw
13:40:55Mikachugoogle images shows me things i have never seen
13:41:01markunCassandra: It's called turnip, right?
13:41:22KohlrabiHeya, people :D
13:41:27preglowmarkun: no, don't think so
13:41:48KohlrabiI like raw Kohlrabi, not mashed, not cooked :)
13:42:12markunpreglow: I think you are right. They just looked a bit similar.
13:43:27Cassandramarkun, it's called kohlrabi as far as I know.
13:43:49markun "Also called turnip cabbage" :)
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13:45:51CassandraB4gder, is something up with the Rockbox lists. My freeze announcement doesn't seem to have gone out.
13:46:10B4gdernot that I know
13:47:03peturCassandra: mail it again, then it will go through twice :) It works like printers,..
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13:55:17CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 6 seconds at the last flood
13:55:17*LinusN turns off the cassandra filter
13:59:05*Cassandra turns off LinusN's life support.
13:59:28B4gderLinusN works with life support systems ;-)
13:59:44B4gderor did ;-)
14:00:19CassandraThis I did not know.
14:00:49B4gdernow when you know this, you also know you need to stay healthy
14:01:41LinusNmy last project was life support, now it's anaestesia
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14:04:07CassandraNice girl. Bit dozy though.
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14:09:45CassandraGods. Every time I think about I discover a new complexity.
14:10:23Mikachui take it code with nested functions would be frowned upon? :)
14:10:28Mikachu<- lazy
14:10:34linuxstb_B4gder: Did you read my discussion with amiconn in the IRC logs yesterday about the bmp2rb build problem?
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14:11:39CassandraRight. I think the right thing to do is to get rid of .rwps files from CVS, moving them all to wps files.
14:12:01*Paul_The_Nerd seconds that
14:12:13CassandraThen they get copied to .rwps files on target if they match the target's remote dimensions.
14:13:19peturWill we only have WPSses that match the target screen _exactly_ ? Using smaller ones kinda looks silly
14:13:36Paul_The_NerdSmaller text ones don't though, in many cases
14:14:21Cassandrapetur. Yeah, that's my current plan.
14:14:40CassandraFor text ones, we specify a minimum number of lines required.
14:15:06Paul_The_NerdThough really, text ones aren't very popular any more
14:15:17CassandraAnd include if lcd_height > lines * 5.
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14:15:41CassandraPaul_The_Nerd, I'm thinking we should include one or two in Rockbox.
14:15:59CassandraSince it at least gives new targets a choice.
14:16:07 Quit Nv ()
14:16:57Paul_The_NerdAye. I use one anyway, so at least I'm in favor of them. :)
14:17:18CassandraBesides, it'll make amiconn happy. ;)
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14:19:20webguest53Text-wpses are still my favourite on the remote
14:19:58Cassandrawebguest53, that's the other good reason to include them.
14:20:09CassandraWell, a couple.
14:20:12Paul_The_NerdI like the default just because I can be pretty certain that no matter what I do to my text size, most/all of my information will still be available.
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14:21:03LinusNPaul_The_Nerd: believe it or not, it was designed for that purpose
14:21:23CassandraHmmm. Did someone remove WPS/theme support from the Player builds?
14:21:31Paul_The_NerdLinusN: That does not surprise me. I had to make one small modification, and now it suits my purposes most excellently.
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14:23:38CassandraThat is annoying. Themes aren't just for WPSes, dammit.
14:24:54Paul_The_NerdY'know, now matter how many times I say that to people, they never quite understand.
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14:31:28CassandraDammit, what are the keymappings for the player sim?
14:34:10CassandraOh FFS. I can't get the sim to work properly over vnc.
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14:54:46bobTHChi !
14:54:55LinusNlinuxstb: doesn't "open with" work in db mode?
14:55:09bobTHChi mates !
14:55:22linuxstbLinusN: I'm not planning on committing that patch.
14:55:35linuxstbI'll test it now in db mode.
14:56:02preglowanyone else think the snap-back behaviour of the left/right keys in the pitch screen should be put back in again?
14:56:14LinusNbecause if you remove it, you can't call vbrfix in db mode
14:56:33LinusNpreglow: was it removed?
14:56:38preglowmidkay removed it
14:56:53preglowtalked to him about it, but he seemed very unwilling to fix it
14:57:19preglowhe doesn't see a reason to keep the old behaviour
14:57:20linuxstbLinusN: Yes, it works fine in DB mode.
14:57:34LinusNgood, then it should perhaps stay
14:58:07preglowi don't see much of a reason to keep the pitch screen as it is now, though
14:58:11LinusNand only be removed from the wps browser
14:58:13preglowmight just as well make it a single setting
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14:58:56LinusNi think the left/right behaviour should go back
14:59:00preglowyeah, me too
14:59:07linuxstbLinusN: Was he talking about the WPS browser, or the open with option accessible from the WPS context menu?
14:59:11preglowsince it's pretty much entire reason for having the screen in the first place
14:59:20preglowperhaps plus the pausing
14:59:36LinusNlinuxstb: the context menu
15:00:10LinusNhmmm, maybe i misunderstood
15:00:40LinusNopen with should work in the wps context menu too iirc
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15:08:38Jungti1234Why is LCD driver waiting in 90%?
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15:09:05Jungti1234Something is lacking?
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15:15:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:15:41LinusNJungti1234: you mean on IriverPort?
15:16:06LinusNlcd on/off is not implemented
15:16:18LinusNand a few other small things
15:17:10godzirraGood morning.
15:18:00PapricaCassandra, i looked at the irc log, and yes, rockcalendar is working...
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15:21:46godzirraAny news on video and/or cover art on the ipod releases? :)
15:22:57 Quit Kohlrabi (Client Quit)
15:22:57Paul_The_Nerdgodzirra: I would say you can probably hold on asking about video until you at least see a patch on the tracker for it. :-P
15:23:15Jungti1234LinusN: yes, ok.
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15:24:48Jungti1234Who can explain about hardware spec of H300 and H10 to me?
15:24:53godzirraPaul_The_Nerd: Ok, I'll stick to asking about cover art from id3 tags then ;)
15:25:09B4gdergodzirra: read the tracker entry instead
15:25:12godzirraI actually miss my broken iriver. :/
15:25:27Paul_The_Nerdgodzirra: Well, there's already a patch in the tracker for Album Art, so you can watch for that one to show up in the changelog. Though not in the next 4 weeks.
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15:25:39Jungti1234H10 is better than H300?
15:25:42godzirraPaul_The_Nerd: thats the one that reads from a file in the same directory though, corererect?
15:25:45godzirraIck. lag.
15:26:02Kohlrabi<Jungti1234> H10 is better than H300? | H10 'lost' many features afaik
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15:26:09godzirraAnd where can I find the tracker?
15:26:19Paul_The_Nerdgodzirra: It does at the moment, yes. But Album Art is probably going to enter CVS like that, long before it's from tags (if ever, I know most things that embet it in tags use png or jpg, no?)
15:26:33Paul_The_Nerdgodzirra: It's that link that says Patches on the main page...
15:26:33Jungti1234Kohlrabi: and?
15:26:38Kohlrabiwhat and?
15:26:43KohlrabiThat's bad imho
15:26:46linuxstbJungti1234: The H10 is extremely similar to the ipods. It uses the same CPU and some other components.
15:26:48Paul_The_NerdJungti1234: H300 is better than H10 in general.
15:26:59godzirraPaul_The_Nerd: yeah, jpg for the most part I believe. And thanks, I'm reading up on the patches page.
15:27:01Paul_The_NerdBy the standards of many people, at least
15:27:04Kohlrabie.g. the iRiver site states nothing about ogg-support, so I reckon it's gone
15:27:16godzirraKohlrabi: wow, that sucks.
15:27:19Kohlrabidunno if H10 has a remote
15:27:28Jungti1234By the way, why can't H300 raise performance such as H10?
15:27:32Kohlrabi(which I personally use very much ;))
15:27:52Kohlrabiyou mean it amplifies?
15:28:20B4gderraise performance?
15:28:28KohlrabiI consider H10 being a step back in iRiver's portable history ;)
15:28:31Jungti1234wait. um
15:28:59linuxstbgodzirra: As Paul said, it's unlikely that Rockbox will support JPG and PNG artwork in ID3 tags. You should try and find a utility that will extract it to files and use the current album art patch.
15:29:14KohlrabiI mean, the market is full of mediocre players, and iPod is on top, so there is nothing to get there for iRiver
15:29:25Kohlrabithey should focus on alternatives
15:29:55B4gderthey all want ipods numbers
15:30:00B4gderso they all want to make ipods
15:30:12Jungti1234H300 hardware is can better performance than H10?
15:30:14godzirralinuxstb: Why will it never support jjpg and png in id3 tags? Isn't that a standard?
15:30:36linuxstbIn the view of most (all?) Rockbox developers, it's a bad standard.
15:30:38godzirraAnd it doesnt seem like it would be hard to add I would think.
15:30:54Paul_The_NerdDon't ever say "it doesn't seem like it would be hard" unless you're willing to do it. :)
15:30:55B4gderthink again
15:31:02godzirraPaul_The_Nerd: I would be if I knew C.
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15:31:17godzirraPaul_The_Nerd: I've offered numerous times to help in other ways. *shrug*
15:31:28Paul_The_NerdI'd think it'd be very difficult to estimate the difficulty of adding something without both knowledge of C *and* a familiarity with that aspect of Rockbox's code...
15:32:13Kohlrabi<Jungti1234> H300 hardware is can better performance than H10? | I dunno, should be the same I think
15:32:14Paul_The_NerdAt the moment Rockbox doesn't even have access to a .png decoder, for example, so that would need to be written from scratch.
15:32:28markungodzirra: it's great though that you want to help in other ways than coding
15:32:31KohlrabiThe H300 can do all that he is meant for
15:32:39KohlrabiSo he is at 100% performance
15:32:49godzirraPaul_The_Nerd: I misread your post.. I thought you said "Its not long before its read frmo id3 tags"
15:32:51Jungti1234haha.. right... but..
15:32:55KohlrabiAnd I think it's the same for H10
15:32:56godzirraas opposed to "long before its read..."
15:33:05Jungti1234Then, first again.
15:33:29Jungti1234H300 hardware is worse than H10?
15:33:34KohlrabiYou could look what the H10 is made of, componentwise
15:33:37Kohlrabiand then estimate
15:33:38crashdh100 you mean ?
15:33:41KohlrabiI dunno
15:33:50crashdh100 and the h300 are the *similar* models
15:33:51Paul_The_Nerdgodzirra: Album Art is a *hopeful* feature for 3.1, and even then it's a general consensus that "read from file" type is better, if it can be handled well.
15:33:53Kohlrabino, h10, the new iRiver
15:33:56crashdh10 is pretty similar hardware to an ipod
15:34:00crashdportalplayer, wolfson codec
15:34:01crashdand so on
15:34:02linuxstbI would say the H10's PP5020 is more powerful than a Coldfire. But probably not significantly.
15:34:08markunJungti1234: H10 is a portalplayer player. So expect ipod performance.
15:34:09Kohlrabinomore coldfire?
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15:34:32godzirraPaul_The_Nerd: Won't the rockbox interface "play" jpgs though? i.e. if I add a directory to a playlist, won't it add the jpg in that directory to a playlist as well?
15:34:50Jungti1234ok. thanks all
15:34:50B4gderyes and no
15:34:53Paul_The_Nerdgodzirra: No, only music is playlisted. Jpegs are handled by an external viewer.
15:34:59linuxstbgodzirra: No, it doesn't "play" jpegs. There is a jpeg viewer plugin, but that can't be used to load album art.
15:35:19godzirraThats fine... this is actually a seperate question from my id3 tags question...
15:35:31Paul_The_NerdKeeping the ability to decode jpegs out of the core also helps manage binary size.
15:35:38KohlrabiAre you talking about stuffing pictures in id3 tags? :o
15:35:43godzirraI was just concerned that the jpgs would be added. I didnt know how smart the create playlist functions were.
15:35:50godzirraKohlrabi: I was before yes.
15:35:54Kohlrabium, OK
15:36:02godzirraPaul_The_Nerd: makes sense.
15:36:20Jungti1234linuxstb, markun: How about other hardware except CPU?
15:36:22godzirraIs there a place I can read up on TagCache?
15:36:42Paul_The_Nerdgodzirra: In the wiki, there's a TagCache page
15:36:44KohlrabiWouldn't it be better to implement support for a container like matroska or similar?
15:37:12godzirraThanks Paul
15:37:22Kohlrabi(and I don't want anyone to do it, just a remark ;))
15:37:41Paul_The_NerdKohlrabi: Or just avoid embedding album art and the music in the same file so that you don't have [tracks] number of the same image.
15:38:30godzirraIt doesnt make much difference to me. Assuming an average of 10 tracks and a 10-15k jpg... that doesnt add up to that much.
15:38:45KohlrabiStill 'bad' style imo
15:38:55pussfellerrockbox sounds warmer somehow than apple firmware
15:38:57Kohlrabiredundancy and stuff
15:39:03pussfellermaybe I am just tripping
15:39:08godzirralol pussfeller
15:39:24Kohlrabiwell, 10-15k add up ;)
15:39:43linuxstbgodzirra: Also, what size (resolution) are your images? Requiring Rockbox to resize them isn't a good idea either - that's much better done once on a PC.
15:39:43B4gderand... people tend to use much bigger images than 10-15K
15:39:45Paul_The_Nerdgodzirra: Also, remember, likely it'd have to be an embedded .bmp
15:39:48Kohlrabihow many songs have you got on your HD? ;)
15:39:59godzirraKohlrabi: I have 4000ish, give or take a few hundred. Thats 40 megs over a 30gig player.
15:40:36godzirralinuxstb: thats true. I'm not sure how to check the resolution on them though.
15:40:39KohlrabiOK, still putting images in tags seems odd ;)
15:40:43godzirraAnd guys, I'm not arguing that its a -good- model.
15:40:50godzirraI'm just arguing that I dont think its as bad as you guys are saying is all ;)
15:41:01Paul_The_NerdOh, nobody said it was *that* bad.
15:41:02godzirraHmm.. I dont have a force tag update in General Settings->Playback
15:41:04Paul_The_NerdJust that the other way was preferred.
15:41:10Paul_The_Nerdgodzirra: how old is your build?
15:41:25godzirrahmmm.. maybe a week?
15:41:28godzirra2 tops.
15:41:32godzirraI'll update and try again.
15:41:36Paul_The_NerdWell, then it might be pre tagcache
15:41:41linuxstbgodzirra: The main problems are 1) decoding the jpeg/png file; and 2) Resizing the image. Converting and resizing the images to .bmp files on a PC makes Rockbox's life easy.
15:41:51*webguest73 finds it somewhat confusing that RockCalendar is listed on PluginIndex
15:41:51Paul_The_NerdIt's generally a good idea not to expect features that came out after the last time you updated to be on your player. :)
15:42:00Kohlrabibtw, in all this albumart discussion, is it implemented on targets right now?
15:42:05godzirralinuxstb: See, that all makes sense. No one has explained it that way. ;)
15:42:09KohlrabiAnd if it is, which ones?
15:42:11Paul_The_NerdKohlrabi: There's a patch so far.
15:42:24Kohlrabiah, ok
15:42:42KohlrabiStill has to be 'code-policed' and reviewed?
15:42:59Paul_The_NerdWell, there were changes that needed to be made about where in memory the album art was kept and such
15:43:07Paul_The_NerdI think it was initially reading the disk on every song change.
15:43:11*Paul_The_Nerd isn't sure
15:43:33B4gderI still it does that again
15:43:36B4gder"I think"
15:43:48linuxstbThe album art patch is basically waiting until Rockbox stores all metadata in the audio buffer along with the audio itself. So no extra memory is wasted.
15:44:15Paul_The_NerdIt's listed as a hopeful for Fireworks.
15:44:17 Quit quobl (Remote closed the connection)
15:44:22*Paul_The_Nerd likes codenames.
15:44:31*linuxstb hates codenames :0
15:44:41godzirraI need a cool codename.
15:44:53Paul_The_NerdBut... but Mayday
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15:44:57Paul_The_NerdI'm sure you saw the video.
15:45:00Paul_The_NerdAnd there's the pun.
15:45:01linuxstbI've never understood which version of Debian I'm running...
15:45:12B4gderI use "unstable" ;-)
15:45:18linuxstbSame here.
15:45:19Paul_The_NerdWell codenames should only be applied until release.
15:45:24codename{Mothra}linuxstb: I didnt either... But it didnt matter because I knew no matter what it was behind in updates :)
15:45:26B4gderI too never understood what weird name my version has
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15:45:30Kohlrabiwhat's unstable called today? :)
15:45:32linuxstbAnd it doesn't help that I've never watched Toy Story...
15:45:40LinusNis this the way we would like to solve the backlight issue in plugins?
15:45:42godzirralinuxstb: blasphemer ;)
15:45:48Bg3rany thoughts about the last mail from gl.tter ?
15:46:04Bg3r"Track skipping & shuffling cause hard lockups. - How long is "long periods" because I took a post-tagcache build on a four hour drive … 3:33 pm
15:46:09LinusNBg3r: yes, my thought is to fix the bug
15:47:15Paul_The_NerdLinusN: I like the option for backlight to be always-on in plugins. But that's just me.
15:47:19Bg3rLinusN i mean is this the exact problem ?
15:47:23LinusNi like it too
15:47:35*Bg3r joins in the liking
15:47:51LinusNthe problem is that it's annoying when the backlight times out in for example sudoku
15:47:52linuxstbI'm not sure about that backlight patch. Personally, I don't see why plugins need to be any different to the core - especially now that we have the "first keypress turns on backlight" option.
15:47:59Paul_The_NerdBg3r: Isn't the most recent devlist thing from gl.tter about the Shuffle+Shuffle Repeat freeze?
15:48:06godzirraPaul_The_Nerd: yeah, March 22nd was my lasst build. oops.
15:48:10Paul_The_NerdLinusN: Or *anything* that you stop and think in.
15:49:56Bg3rPaul_The_Nerd yes, the same
15:51:00B4gdernow there is a hardeep fix!
15:51:18B4gderis one of those snipercommitters
15:51:28*amiconn doesn't like 'backlight always on in plugins' at all
15:51:49Kohlrabidoes rockbox shutdown automatically when plugins are run?
15:52:01KohlrabiWhen it isnt touched for $minutes?
15:52:34Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Care to cover why? I mean, y'know, I'll give you that it is merely a laziness feature...
15:53:07peturregarding different graphics formats for album art, I just found this: - it's GPL and C code :)
15:53:44amiconnWell, it doesn't make sense for all plugins.
15:54:15amiconnI think the plugins should have a backlight option if it makes sense for them
15:55:33Moosamiconn: are all deprecated strings supossed to be removed from .langs ?
15:55:41 Quit pussfeller ("Leaving")
15:55:55LinusNMoos: yes, eventually
15:56:15Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Wouldn't that require either a common in-plugin menu, or individually saved settings per plugin (or both?)
15:56:25Moosbecause I'm working on francais.lang and I spoted one still here
15:56:40webmindrockbox just crashed on me :(
15:56:45MoosLinusN: ok, I'll remove it then
15:56:47amiconnMoos: Check with english.lang. Some strings were deprecated and resurrected later
15:56:57Moosah ok
15:57:05amiconnAll really deprecated strings are definitely removed
15:57:06Mooslet me check
15:57:22amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: both
15:57:28Moosid: LANG_FM_NO_PRESETS
15:57:28Moosdesc: DEPRECATED
15:57:28Mooseng: ""
15:57:28DBUGEnqueued KICK Moos
15:57:28Moosvoice: ""
15:57:28Moosnew: ""
15:57:41Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Then I like that idea better, should it ever happen. ;-)
15:58:59linuxstbWhat do people think about the custom menus that are in some plugins (e.g Rockboy)? Should I change them to use the standard Rockbox menus?
15:59:19LinusNall menus should look the same imho
15:59:35B4gderstandard menus
15:59:42LinusNkill! kill!
15:59:46Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: While the custom menus look prettier now, standardizing them would be nice, and I imagine they can be reprettified with viewports at some random future point.
16:00:00LinusNyep indeed
16:00:14linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: Yes, that's exactly my thoughts. And langv2 for plugins will be happening soon as well.
16:00:24amiconnMoos: Check LANG_FM_NO_PRESETS in english.lang. I'm sure it's no longer deprecated
16:00:26Paul_The_NerdSo, death to the custom menus!
16:00:28webminduhm.. is there battery support for the ipod nano ?
16:00:42linuxstbOK, I'll put it on my to-do list.
16:00:43LinusNwell, it runs on batteries doesn't it?
16:00:52webmindwell as in
16:00:53Paul_The_NerdI was going to say the same thing, LinusN.
16:00:57webminddoes it know how low it is ?
16:01:03webmindcos it was on full all the time
16:01:11Moosamiconn: I checked used in english.lang, maybe mistake of your script used :) (I'll fix)
16:01:23webmindbecause it seems like it was empty
16:01:27webmindbut didnt noice
16:01:29Paul_The_Nerdwebmind: That hasn't been enabled yet, because it's still inaccurate enough as to not really matter too much.
16:01:39LinusNgotta go, cu l8r
16:01:42 Part LinusN
16:01:42amiconnMoos: It's not a script mistake. This string once was deprecated, then resurrected
16:01:45webmindPaul_The_Nerd, ah ok
16:02:01Moosamiconn: ok
16:02:03amiconnfrancais.lang was just not updated to reflect this
16:02:12amiconnBattery support on the iPods is currently in a sorry state, except on the video
16:02:46amiconnHowever, I have the correct scale now on my mini, and it seems we can use the same scale factor for all iPods,
16:03:03amiconnsince they all use LiIon and the same chip (pcf)
16:03:29Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: What is it?
16:03:31linuxstbDoes that mean the 5g code should be applied everywhere?
16:04:25preglowno, just the scale factor
16:04:26amiconnlinuxstb: At least the scale factor. I just did that - and my battery voltage display is correct. I defined LIPOL1300 battery - and the percentage turned correct
16:04:55preglowi'm using the 5g scale factor on the nano now, and at least the voltage reading looks correct
16:04:56amiconnI'll change that LIPOL1300 into a general LIPOL definition, and separate the capacity values
16:05:02preglowbattery indicator is still always full, though
16:05:20amiconnpreglow: Try enabling HAVE_LIPOL1300
16:05:29Paul_The_NerdYeah if you enable that it shows percentage
16:05:37amiconnSorry #define CONFIG_BATTERY BATT_LIPOL1300
16:05:57Paul_The_NerdBut at "full" charge, with the 5G scale factor, it can be anywhere from 88% to 100%
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16:10:38JdGordonseen as doom is gonna be part of the release... should it (can it?) be made ot look in .rockbox/doom instead of games/doom for the wads?
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16:11:24JdGordon.. and will the release put the rockbox.X file in the .rockbox folder?
16:12:24B4gderI think advocate us starting to support a path system for various stuff, to allow users to put things outside of the .rockbox dir
16:12:59B4gderto move towards a system where a user can wipe his .rockbox or update it, without very much loss
16:13:27B4gderbut perhaps not in 3.0 ;-)
16:13:29linuxstbFor Doom, maybe the "wad viewer" approach would be better. But that has complications with files requiring multiple wads.
16:14:07CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
16:14:07*B4gder hesitates a bit with the langv2 commit
16:14:15preglowi think keeping stuff in .rockbox makes sense
16:14:20linuxstbWe also need to package prboom.wad (it just contains data required by the Doom plugin such as trig tables) - I think that's something that should live somewhere under .rockbox
16:14:27Paul_The_NerdI was thinking on that. Why not a .txt file that lists IWAD and then the PWADS so you just create launch files for each of your mods.
16:14:47Paul_The_NerdThen you dump the iwads in the /IWAD directory and the pwads in the /PWAD directory, and just click the plaintext files
16:14:48linuxstbPaul_The_Nerd: Or simply the command-line arguments you would pass to doom normally.
16:14:52JdGordonwasnt this discusse a while back, and there was problesm int he code?
16:15:01Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb: Or the command line arguments, sure. :)
16:15:55linuxstbSo for simple usage, clicking on a WAD would play it. For more complicated usage, a ".doom" file which is some kind of text file specifying the options.
16:16:30Paul_The_NerdYeah. With a "You can only launch IWADs like this" when you click on a PWAD
16:16:37JdGordon... your gonna get hit with the "feature freeze" stick...
16:17:33linuxstbBug report: Doom requires files in a fixed location.
16:17:42*linuxstb ducks
16:18:10JdGordonhaha.. good enough for me :D
16:18:46*amiconn also doesn't like the /games/doom path
16:18:52Paul_The_NerdI *do* think that since backdrops need to be in /.rockbox/ there should be a "Browse Backdrops" option somewhere
16:19:18Paul_The_NerdJust because it seems like this shouldn't be the only case where you have to set it to view all to get to something
16:19:38linuxstbI did try to implement a "Browse Backdrops" feature, but it's complicated by the fact that just clicking on a .bmp file in the file browser doesn't set it as a backdrop.
16:20:05linuxstbSo it's more than just copying and pasting the existing "browse X" code.
16:20:07*petur likes to keep data and programs in different trees
16:20:36Paul_The_NerdAnd "Set as backdrop" probably should never be the automatic .bmp function
16:21:15linuxstbYes, that was the general view at the time.
16:22:22XavierGrwhy don't we have a BMP viewer just like the jpeg?
16:22:32 Quit MulziSAW2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:23:14linuxstbXavierGr: I think simply because no-one has implemented one.
16:23:30XavierGrbut the code exists in the core of rockbox, right?
16:23:43B4gderperhaps because not many developers have bmp files around they want to watch
16:24:00linuxstbNot really. There is a simple bmp loader, but a viewer would need to handle scaling, panning etc.
16:24:09preglowstill need png, gif, etc
16:24:27XavierGrwell bmp is another small step
16:24:33preglowjpeg.c should probably be renamed to imageviewer.c or something
16:24:40petur - it's GPL and C code
16:24:48XavierGrand it should be fairly easy to code. (in contrast to jpeg)
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16:24:51preglowso we don't have to duplicate all the browsing/slideshow functionality
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16:25:08wackywoohoo guys!!! I've got Rockbox running on my iAudio X5L :)) that's awsome!
16:25:15wackythanks for all your efforts :)
16:25:16Paul_The_NerdYeah, and that way you could possibly have mixed-format slideshows
16:25:30XavierGrpreglow: my view in this is to split the browsing code from the decode code
16:25:53preglowXavierGr: how?
16:25:53wackycan we really play DOOM on the iAudio ?!?
16:26:00Paul_The_Nerdwacky: Not yet
16:26:09amiconnXavierGr: Scaling bmp (or any other lossless format) is harder than the jpeg scaling used in jpeg.c
16:26:09wackyoh :P
16:26:17pussfeller%s%m|12|190|%?id<%id|-> - this line, on my ipod from a h300 theme, shows the x:y numbers, iguess this is supposed to be a scrollingmarquee
16:26:20preglowamiconn: on the contrary, it's easier
16:26:21Mooswacky: not yet
16:26:23preglowamiconn: but more expensive
16:26:36pussfellerbut the coordinates are showing up in the display
16:26:37Paul_The_Nerdpussfeller: I think that's a scroll margin, yes.
16:26:40MoosPaul:oops echo
16:26:42wackyit is a work in progress, or is it just not running on the iAudio right now ?
16:27:05Paul_The_Nerdpussfeller: The scroll margins are from a patch. Since you don't have that patch, rockbox doesn't recognize it as an instruction
16:27:14JdGordongnite guys
16:27:21pussfellerPaul_The_Nerd, they scroll tho :)
16:27:21JdGordoncongrats on the freeze... i tihk...
16:27:26XavierGrnow that I think of it a big bmp file would not be ablr to be loaded in archos models that have 2MB memory
16:27:29 Quit JdGordon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:27:50pussfelleri just dont want the coordinates to show up
16:28:10preglowwhat i think we need to do for most picture formats, is just decode the entire picture once into ram, then use a scaling/zooming display function
16:28:11pussfelleri guess this must be partly implemented, but not documented on the wiki
16:28:12Paul_The_Nerdpussfeller: Scrolling is supported. Margins for the scrolling isn't.
16:28:32Paul_The_Nerdpussfeller: %s is the scroll. Everything that's supported is documented.
16:28:36preglowusing bilinear interpolation or something
16:29:03Paul_The_Nerdpussfeller: There's no %m tag in CVS.
16:29:12 Quit XavierGr ()
16:29:13pussfellerah, so take out the %m|12|190|
16:29:49pussfellerok, then the %m sets how wide the scroll line shows
16:30:07Paul_The_NerdProbably. As I said, it's not an actual feature of Rockbox. I don't know much about it.
16:31:31 Quit Genre9mp3 ()
16:32:16 Join cismo [0] (
16:33:16godzirraSo how do I tell if the tag cache update is done?
16:34:03amiconnpreglow: Loading the whole pic and then scaling down is not a good solution - on all targets
16:34:06ashridahthe disk stops grinding
16:34:06Paul_The_Nerdgodzirra: Next to the clock is an icon that represents disk activity. When it's gone, the update should be done
16:34:10ashridah(the debug stuff has a screen thatshows the percentage :) )
16:34:19webguest73Hrm.. I just unplugged my iriver, and it stays in bootloader usb mode.. strange
16:34:23preglowamiconn: not on all, no
16:34:48amiconn(1) On archos, it would be impossible to show larger images. (2) On the newer targets, it would require to stop playback
16:35:03godzirraAhh thank you Paul.
16:35:07webguest73Replug, unplug.. still stuck in bootloader mode.
16:35:19preglowamiconn: but in many cases it's the only practical solution, in some cases, like for png, it's not really easy to scale down the image while you decode it
16:35:24ashridahwebguest73: they make reset buttons for a reason :)
16:35:36webguest73ashridah: yeah, just strange
16:35:38preglowamiconn: this also applies for jpeg2k, imho, not that we'll see that for a while anyway
16:36:02amiconnI don't think we have to support image formats which are hard to support
16:36:15preglowthat's ridiculous
16:36:18webguest73Ew, iriver firmware loaded.
16:36:27preglowis that our position on audio formats as well?
16:36:29 Nick tianjing_ is now known as tianjing (
16:36:31preglowdrop those who're hard to code?
16:36:47amiconnWell, plugins are plugins, and stopping playback shouldn't be done when it's not absolutely necessary
16:37:01preglowsure, no, but it should be a possibility
16:37:12*Paul_The_Nerd wonders why his Tagcache's current progress is 207%
16:37:17preglowPaul_The_Nerd: it's special
16:37:34ashridahPaul_The_Nerd: bah, i'm beating you, mine went up to 900% the other day :)
16:37:35webguest73Yeah, that progress counter seems a bit flakey
16:37:59preglowthe rockbox viewer is currently the best that is, because of it's high res picture handling
16:38:06preglowi don't want to nerf that
16:38:36 Quit cismo_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:39:49*linuxstb thinks we should have a proper Tag Cache menu, which includes a status screen.
16:40:42webguest73Hrm, what bmp format is expected to get 2-bit greyscale images on wps?
16:40:44 Quit darkless (Client Quit)
16:41:01Paul_The_Nerdwebguest73: 24-bit works.
16:41:45preglowsounds like a waste of space
16:41:52Paul_The_NerdI think you can also use 8-bit
16:42:03preglowisn't there such a thing as 2 bit bmps?
16:42:24 Join Spida_ [0] (
16:42:30Paul_The_NerdRockbox only supports 1, 8, and 24 at the moment though, right?
16:50:52amiconnpreglow: BMPs can be 1, 4, 8, 15/16, 24 and 32 bit
16:51:05amiconnThe rockbox bmp loader currently supports 1, 8 and 24
16:51:30amiconnIt should also support 4 bit, but I would drop 16 and 32 bit support
16:51:31B4gderthere are two LANG_FM_NO_PRESETS
16:51:36amiconns/drop/not add/+
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16:51:51B4gderbroke my langv2 build ;-)
16:51:58Paul_The_NerdHm. The tagcache status doesn't seem to be very helpful at all. I *just* started building mine cleanly, and it says "100%"
16:52:05 Quit ashridah ("Leaving")
16:52:24 Quit Jungti1234 ()
16:52:27SlasheriPaul_The_Nerd: status indicator doesn't work unless dircache is enabled
16:52:59linuxstbCould it display a count of files processed so far?
16:53:12Paul_The_NerdI'm curious what it's a percentage of anyway
16:53:13Slasherilinuxstb: yep, that will happen in future
16:53:45*petur also votes for putting tagcache in a virtual folder
16:54:43 Quit Spida (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:55:02Paul_The_NerdSlasheri: Okay, so now that it's done building, and has been committed, it's at 0%
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16:55:24Slasherihehe, yeah. It has some bugs still :)
16:55:40Paul_The_NerdSlasheri: It uses a percentage. What is it a percentage of?
16:56:09Slasheriit should display in percentage that how many files it has scanned from disk so far
16:56:55Slasheribut currently fixing that progress indicator is in the lower priority.. but it will happen
17:00:56amiconnB4gder: The second LANG_FM_NO_PRESETS was incorrectly added by a commit after my .lang rework
17:01:07B4gderyes, I noticed
17:01:18pussfellerthis is great, I really appreciate you all doing this
17:01:21B4gderI removed it now
17:01:27B4gdersince it broke my converted .lang files
17:01:28pussfelleri was starting to hate my ipod
17:02:33Bg3rah, me is to blame ...
17:03:46amiconnAlso, LANG_FMR for a general "Preset" string sounds inappropriate
17:03:49preglowpussfeller: and who can blame you for that...
17:03:53bluebrother^how is the status of iaudio plugins?
17:04:05Paul_The_Nerdbluebrother^: The ones that work, work. :-P
17:04:13B4gderbluebrother^: they work fine!
17:04:29bluebrother^which ones work?
17:04:41 Quit t0mas ("brb")
17:04:43 Join Genre9mp3 [0] (
17:04:46bluebrother^I looked at but it doesn't mention the iaudio
17:04:49Paul_The_Nerdpussfeller: I would've never bought an iPod except I'd seen Rockbox was coming along well. Sound wasn't in yet, but I had patience. :)
17:04:54B4gderbuild-iaudiox5>ls -1 apps/plugins/*rock |wc -l
17:05:09bluebrother^but I want to know which ones go for the ...
17:05:09B4gderpretty much all of them
17:05:19bluebrother^ok, I can do this myself.
17:05:25B4gderhang on
17:05:27Paul_The_Nerdbluebrother^: You could look to see which .rocks are included in the .zip (bearing in mind doom may be included, but doesn't work)
17:05:28 Join t0mas [0] (n=Tomas@rockbox/developer/t0mas)
17:05:34bluebrother^haven't thought of that method ...
17:05:36webguest73Hrm, why is the selector one item above the bottom/top of the screen?
17:05:40 Quit Moos ("Glory to Rockbox !!!")
17:05:46*bluebrother^ is stupid
17:05:48Genre9mp3Hi there a way to check how much buffer is used when playing a track?
17:06:29Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: You can go into Debug Info and check the audio thread, but it tells how much buffer is being used by all currently buffered music
17:06:37Paul_The_NerdWhy do you need to know how much one song uses?
17:06:38bluebrother^B4gder: thanks.
17:06:43pussfellerPaul_The_Nerd, preglow, i didn't know amy better
17:07:07pussfelleri never bought into all the apple love, but i got hoodwinked just this once
17:07:33pussfellerand, they were at the time better than stuff readily available afaik
17:07:48pussfellernext time i want a cowan
17:07:53preglowi like my nano well enough
17:08:04preglowbut i wouldn't have gotten it if it were not for rockbox
17:08:05B4gderbluebrother^: sorry, the two flash ones are zero bytes and not for the x5 though
17:08:05bluebrother^I just looked at the source of PluginIndex −− so I assume I need to add every plugin the category "iAudio X5"?
17:08:12amiconnBg3r: Also, adding voice: strings for IDs only used for splashes is almost punishable...
17:08:29Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd:I extended the wps buffer by modifying the gwps.h file and I just want to see somehow how much it affects this
17:08:34pussfellerwell, if my kid gets all A's, he's getting this so I hope he does which makes me have to get something new
17:09:04Bg3ramiconn didn't know this ...
17:09:05bluebrother^are there any thoughts on an easy-to-use installer for iriver? Or will it be the "fwpatcher way"?
17:09:12Bg3rgotta go
17:09:15bluebrother^as we need to write instructions for the manual ...
17:09:26Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: Well, basically I *think* that you're taking memory directly away from the audio buffer when you use it somewhere else.
17:09:35B4gderyes you do
17:09:39Bg3ramiconn if you have other remarks, write them here ..
17:09:40webguest73Fwpatcher needs some love before release, by the way
17:09:50B4gderall memory used elsewhere shrinks the compressed-audio buffer
17:09:54linuxstbbluebrother^: I think the plan is to integrate fwpatcher into Cassandra's installer. But I don't know if it's a 3.0 plan.
17:10:02amiconnBg3r: Well, if voice isn't actually used, adding voice: strings only bloats the voicefiles and forces application of more compression, making it sound worse...
17:10:16webguest73It will attempt to run the patching routine pretty much whatever you do (change focus, click browse again, etc)
17:10:42B4gderwe won't mind patches
17:10:43webguest73Which makes it unusable for blind people using keyboard navigation
17:10:49Genre9mp3So I just have to see how much the compressed audio buffer reduced, right?
17:11:00B4gderGenre9mp3: yes
17:11:07pussfelleron the ipod, if you are looking at a text file, and hit selst and forward, it crashes
17:11:08B4gderor check the .map file for exactness
17:11:13Genre9mp3thank you very much for your help!
17:11:13pussfellererr select and forward
17:11:26dpassen2One bug I believe I've noticed is that the Paginated Scroll option doesn't seem to affect the Menus, only file browsing
17:12:02amiconnThe paginated scrolling is a bad option imho. It makes rockbox look as lame as iriver retailos...
17:12:58preglowamiconn: at least it's readable
17:13:44Mikachui like it
17:14:37bluebrother^could someone with better knowledge of the wiki look at and tell me if it's the correct way I extended it?
17:15:02bluebrother^looks pretty good to me for now, but I'm not really used to twiki.
17:15:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:15:05 Join Febs [0] (
17:15:12preglowthe ordinary scrolling is pure and simple unreadable on h1x0
17:15:38Mikachuand you have to backtrack when you find the right option
17:15:49Mikachuwith pages, you can read all entries more quickly and go to the right one..
17:16:56webguest73On the subject of scrolling, may I ask again why the selector in ordinary mode is one item short of the bottom/top?
17:17:24preglowso you see where you're scrolling
17:17:36preglowi think it should be even more items short of the margins
17:17:51preglowit used to be, but i think timid changed it
17:18:01webguest73That's my point.. one seems like it doesn't really help
17:18:09webguest73and just looks strange
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17:21:57Mikachui want smooth pixelbypixel scrolling! with colors!
17:22:20 Quit RedBreva ("CGI:IRC")
17:22:21Paul_The_NerdThe highlight bar should smoothly transition between elements
17:22:39Mikachudon't we already have problems with it using too much cpu?
17:23:01amiconnpreglow: I don't see the difference in readability between normal and pages scrolling...
17:23:38webguest73the text stays still
17:23:42webguest73and you can actually read it
17:23:54Paul_The_NerdMikachu: I could easily come up with a much more CPU intensive and ridiculous suggestion. :-P
17:24:10amiconnWell, if you scroll really long lists, you would use the scroll-by-page buttons anyway, wouldn't you?
17:24:22Mikachuwhich doesn't exist on ipods
17:24:43webguest73amiconn: not always, it's a bit cramped to push play+joystick imho
17:26:14 Quit bobTHC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:26:52preglowamiconn: the lcd is too slow for me to read it when i'm scrolling
17:27:24preglowseems the mailing list is ignoring me too
17:27:31B4gderok, I'll gather courage and aim for langv2 commit tonight
17:27:37 Quit B4gder ("time to say moo")
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17:28:12amiconnpreglow: What target?
17:28:27*amiconn never had problems with scrolling in lists and the lcd
17:28:39linuxstbbluebrother^: PluginIndex looks good to me.
17:29:04*webguest73 has problems with h1xx
17:29:19webguest73It's just a blur when scrolling
17:29:19preglowamiconn: h120
17:29:19bluebrother^linuxstb: thanks. Regexp are cool :)
17:29:22linuxstbamiconn: Do you have any long lists to scroll through?
17:29:41preglowamiconn: you yourself say the lcd is slow, how then can you not have noticed it?
17:29:55preglowif you scroll a list, the screen is just a blur
17:29:59preglowplain unreadable
17:30:32amiconnYes, but the scrollbar stays visible, as the knob moves slowly
17:30:47amiconnThat's enough for me to know where I am in the list
17:31:37 Quit Genre9mp3 ()
17:31:46peturpreglow: is your mail client sending a different from address than the one you subscribed?
17:32:08peturbecause it's good at ignoring you if you do that
17:33:11Mikachuamiconn: i think possibly we want to read the actual items
17:33:44bluebrother^are there key bindings missing for the iaudio sim?
17:34:21webguest73Is it planned to move rockbox.iriver into .rockbox for the release?
17:34:28preglowpetur: no, i fixed that a long time ago
17:35:00 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
17:35:22preglowi don't think the main purpose of the list scrolling mode is for you to see the scroll bar only...
17:35:50preglowbesides, if the scroll bar is all you care about, then the lower battery consumption of the paged mode will surely make you happy
17:36:58 Quit Kohlrabi ("Fast alle Menschen sind Regenwürmer")
17:39:50amiconnpreglow: With paged mode, you can't see exactly where you are by only looking at the scrollbar
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17:40:21 Quit RedBreva (Client Quit)
17:40:42bluebrother^what button accesses the main menu on x5?
17:41:26Paul_The_Nerdbluebrother^: Record, I think
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17:43:28preglowamiconn: sounds like that would be a fine addition to that mode, though
17:43:37preglowanywho, i like seeing where i am when i browse
17:43:40kkurbjunamiconn, for the grayscale lib do you have to do any additional linking?
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17:44:28preglowi don't have equally many files starting with each character of the alphabet in each dir, so the scroll bar alone doesn't give me a very nice position
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17:47:22bluebrother^strange. I can't access the main menu on x5 sim.
17:48:14bluebrother^is this something known or is it just me? Tried looking up button.c but it didn't help
17:48:39linuxstbkkurbjun: Yes, you may need to change your Makefile to link against the plugin lib if it doesn't already.
17:48:44bluebrother^but the sim says "backlight on" when pressing the sim-record key.
17:49:46linuxstbkkurbjun: Looking at your Doom makefile, it seems to already link against libplugin - so it should be fine.
17:50:07linuxstbbluebrother^: Have a look in uisimulator/sdl/button.c
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17:50:36dpassen2Regardless of your thoughts on paginated vs. Rockbox standard scrolling, behavior should be consistent in file tree as well as menus, yes?
17:50:37kkurbjunlinuxstb, I think I figured it out, I have it compiling for the H100's but it's crashing when I do an update.. not sure why yet, what are the valid values passed to gray_ub_gray_bitmap( for the buffer? is it 0-255?
17:50:55linuxstbI've no idea. But it should be documented in the GraphicsAPI wiki page.
17:51:19kkurbjunok, I'll look into that
17:51:22blueyi've ported a 5g theme to rockbox
17:51:25bluebrother^linuxstb: I tried that button.c
17:51:34 Quit webguest35 (Client Quit)
17:51:37blueyanyone would like to try it out? but there are still some problems with it
17:53:30*linuxstb spots a "non-free" image in there...
17:53:43blueymhh ok i'll remove it
17:54:36*Paul_The_Nerd wonders why so many people want ipod or ipod-like looks.
17:54:38webguest73I'm sure there are similar ones in various opensource iconsets
17:54:52linuxstbbluebrother^: So pressing "/" or F1 doesn't work?
17:55:05bluebrother^linuxstb: no
17:55:11bluebrother^doom runs on the x5?
17:55:22Paul_The_NerdNot yet
17:55:25linuxstbbluebrother^: The "/" on the numeric keypad?
17:56:10bluebrother^also not.
17:56:19bluebrother^but it prints "backlight on" on stdout.
17:56:26 Part Paul_The_Nerd
17:56:34*linuxstb builds an iaudio sim
17:57:11kkurbjunlinuxstb, do you know if gray_gray_bitmap works on the sim?
17:57:23kkurbjunlinuxstb, doom runs on the x5 sim
17:57:37kkurbjunfor some reason it's not running on the target though
17:57:53linuxstbI've never tried the grayscale plugins in the sim, but I thought amiconn had implemented it.
17:59:36amiconngray_*gray_bitmap*() take canonical grayscale images, i.e. 1byte/pixel, line-wise, 0..255
17:59:36linuxstbbluebrother^: Keep your finger held down on "/" - it seems to be a long press on record to bring up the menu.
18:00:19kkurbjunamiconn, I'm looking at the plasma plugin as a reference, when I'm initializing the grayscale lib, how big does gbuf need to be?
18:01:25amiconnThe lib takes as much as you allow it to. If it can't properly initialise with that amount, it'll return 0
18:01:59kkurbjunI was just going to do a malloc to give it it's buffer for doom so I was wondering how much to give
18:02:14amiconnFor fullscreen on H1x0 with the maximum of 33 shades, you'll need 160KB in unbuffered mode
18:02:36kkurbjunok, great
18:02:54amiconnThen you're only allowed to use the gray_ub_* drawing functions
18:02:57 Quit petur ("done")
18:03:20kkurbjunok, that's what I was doing for now, would that be the right call to use?
18:03:34amiconnFor buffered mode, you'll need an additional 40KB
18:04:44kkurbjunok, I'll just give that for now
18:05:00kkurbjunhaha, it works
18:05:12bluebrother^linuxstb: tried different keyboard ... now it works
18:05:35kkurbjunI wonder if it'll work on the target
18:05:58kkurbjunI'll commit the changes, I can't edit the subdirs I dont' think so someone will have to do that
18:06:00bluebrother^seems it doesn't like my laptops keypad mode.
18:06:44linuxstbkkurbjun: There is no technical reason why you can't edit SUBDIRS.
18:07:03kkurbjunoh, I thought my cvs access was limited to doom
18:07:33linuxstbBut that's not enforced through access rights. It's enforced through trust :)
18:08:00kkurbjun: ), I see
18:10:01amiconnkkurbjun: Buffered and unbuffered mode differ in performance, visual appearance when display content changes, available drawing functions, and ram usage
18:10:43amiconnUnbuffered mode uses less ram (no chunky front & back buffer), but only offers a subset of drawing functions (clearing, bitmap drawing and scrolling)
18:11:41amiconnWhen display content changes often, unbuffered mode also causes more flicker, because it always redraws the whole bitmap
18:12:02kkurbjunamiconn, ahh, is buffered faster then?
18:12:09kkurbjunI guess I could test the two
18:13:00amiconnBuffered mode only updates those pixels which actually changed in brightness (in destination brightness terms), and should be faster as long as not too many pixels actually change brightness
18:13:52kkurbjunamiconn, hmm, I would guess that doom would be changing the brightness of most of the screen
18:14:22amiconnIt should be better suited for moving graphics like doom. The occasional full-screen change will be slower because of the extra buffering layer, but when you move around in a room, it should be faster
18:15:21amiconnkkurbjun: Really? I think normally only a fraction of the pixels will change brightness from frame to frame
18:15:50amiconnRemember, this is destination brightness, which has only 33 steps
18:16:02kkurbjunamiconn, I guess it's getting scaled down from 256 colors to 33 grays, but every item pickup flashes the screen..
18:16:34kkurbjunI've committed the unbuffered code, if you or someone could test it on target that would be great
18:16:44amiconnyes, such occasions will become slightly slower
18:17:18linuxstbkkurbjun: I'll give it a test now.
18:17:39amiconnSomeone should just try both and compare...
18:18:09kkurbjunlinuxstb, I just commited the subdirs change
18:18:25amiconnIt's also possible to hack some shortcuts in, bypassing the runtime 256->33 remapping
18:19:31amiconnThis remapping is there because the grayscale lib offers variable depth, but the palette could be precalculated in case of doom
18:19:45linuxstbkkurbjun: One warning: i_video.c:59: warning: 'graybuffer' defined but not used
18:20:18amiconnWe can also trade number of grayscales vs. speed
18:20:29kkurbjunamiconn, oh, I see, I'm already calculating it down to 256..
18:20:35kkurbjunlinuxstb, that's strange
18:20:47kkurbjun#ifndef HAVE_LCD_COLOR
18:20:47kkurbjun graybuffer[y * LCD_WIDTH + x]=palette[paletteIndex];
18:20:56kkurbjunthat's the proper way to ifdef it?
18:23:36Mikachuwhat function would i call to make the vkeyboard use a singlecolor background instead of my backdrop?
18:26:04Mikachuseems to be it
18:26:06linuxstbkkurbjun: The problem is the #if defined(LCD_H300) - you should be doing #if (CONFIG_LCD == LCD_H300)
18:26:25linuxstbdefined(LCD_H300) is always true...
18:26:47kkurbjunlinuxstb, oh, oops
18:30:14 Quit jbauman (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:30:28kkurbjunok, committed
18:30:39kkurbjunlinuxstb, does it work on the H100?
18:30:59bluebrother^woo! I just got one step closer to the button map environment :)
18:31:06linuxstbIt freezes at ST_Init: Init status bar
18:31:25*bluebrother^ does the renewcommand dance
18:31:35kkurbjunit does that on the x5 too, both work in the sim
18:32:01linuxstbSorry, it doesn't freeze. If I press STOP for example, then the hard disk spins up for some reason.
18:32:01kkurbjunboth have the mac units correct?
18:32:33kkurbjunso it's running?
18:32:57 Nick Kyomi|off is now known as Kyomi (
18:33:02KyomiQuestion I forgot to ask last night
18:33:22KyomiCan you delete the plugins that are useless/you never use without any adverse affects?
18:33:29linuxstbkkurbjun: Yes, it's running. I can hear monsters....
18:33:49MikachuKyomi: yeah
18:33:52linuxstbIt's just that there is nothing being displayed on the LCD. Is there an lcd_gray_update() that needs to be called?
18:33:57kkurbjunbut no display?
18:34:11webguest73Oh wow, Doom on h120?
18:34:14linuxstbNo - the display is stuck on the text output.
18:34:21linuxstbwebguest73: Yes, audio only at the moment though :)
18:34:44FebsIs there any reason to keep a link to the 2.4 manual on the documentation page now that the draft 3.0 manul builds are available? At the very least, I'm inclined to move the 2.4 manual to the bottom of the page and highlight the draft 3.0 manual more prominently.
18:34:45preglowhow does the plugins use audio?
18:34:56kkurbjunah, I don't think so
18:35:09preglowi take it they don't go through dsp and all that?
18:35:24KyomiWhats the topic *feature freeze* for
18:35:59linuxstbRockbox is preparing for the release of version 3.0
18:36:01Mikachuno more features for a month
18:37:18FebsNo NEW features for a month.
18:37:40kkurbjunamiconn, what would be the effect of using a call like lcd_putsxy while the grayscale lib is running?
18:38:05amiconnIt would draw to the standard lcd framebuffer
18:38:50amiconnYou would see the result after switching of the grayscale lib and issuing an lcd_update()
18:39:19kkurbjunso it wouldn't messup the grayscale lib then.. any reason you can think that the target isn't showing the updates but the sim is?
18:39:45amiconnBut: never call lcd_update() (or other lcd functions which directly communicate with the lcd controller) while the grayscale lib is running
18:40:31kkurbjunamiconn, I'll have to put in a safety for that then in the printf code
18:40:36amiconnlinuxstb: For unbuffered mode, there is no update function. That's why it's called unbuffered mode...
18:41:03linuxstbOK :) You can tell I know zero about the grayscale lib...
18:42:14kkurbjunamiconn, is there any adverse effects of calling gray_release(); more then once?
18:42:50linuxstbAh - could there be a clash with the user timer?
18:43:12amiconnNo, why?
18:43:29linuxstbDoesn't the greyscale lib need it? And Doom uses it itself as well.
18:44:03amiconnWhy does doom use the timer?
18:44:14amiconnIs the tick not sufficient?
18:44:15linuxstbTo give a 70Hz tick IIUC.
18:44:18kkurbjunto give the game 35 ticks/sec
18:44:38linuxstbI'll try changing it to the same code used in the sim.
18:44:38amiconnThat's not possible when also using the grayscale lib
18:44:41kkurbjunI can use linuxstb's code from the sim
18:44:49linuxstbIt's amiconn's code... :)
18:45:02kkurbjunahh : )
18:45:10amiconnlinuxstb: which one?
18:45:37linuxstbOr at least, the calculation to average current_tick to a 35Hz tick.
18:46:15amiconnHmm. On H1x0, the grayscale lib uses a 70Hz timer.
18:46:33dpassen2Is it possible to find old(er) changelogs than provided from the daily builds?
18:47:06amiconnlinuxstb: If you want to learn more about the grayscale lib, there are many comments in the gray_*.c files
18:47:32preglowhad a look at ipod grayscale lib?
18:47:47amiconnpreglow: patience...
18:47:51preglowjust wondering
18:48:05amiconnI *will* do that. First I need to do some experiments, and learn some arm asm
18:48:09preglowit's not like i'll ever see it anyway
18:48:23preglowjust wondering if my tick timer works right
18:48:34amiconnIt does. Check metronome.
18:48:49amiconn(after I fixed it to use TIMER_FREQ instead of CPU_FREQ)
18:48:53linuxstbOooh. Doom.
18:48:59preglowlinuxstb: for what?
18:48:59webguest73Metronome sure should use the piezo
18:49:01kkurbjunlinuxstb, it works?
18:49:06amiconnBtw, there's a chance to simplify things for coldfire
18:49:07preglowi need to get some wads
18:49:08linuxstbYes. H140. timer.c
18:49:12preglowamiconn: oh?
18:49:19kkurbjun:) great
18:49:32preglowany easy to get free wads around?
18:49:41*preglow misses boothill.wad
18:49:45kkurbjunoops, freedoom works
18:49:53linuxstbBut the screen is far too dark.
18:50:07amiconnpreglow: Since we now define TIMER_FREQ anyway, we can #define TIMER_FREQ (CPU_FREQ/2) for coldfire, and get rid of the runtime /2 calculation
18:50:07kkurbjunlinuxstb, try upping the gamma in the menu
18:50:17kkurbjunit's labeled mouse sensativity
18:50:33linuxstbWhich menu item is that? I can't even read the menu.
18:51:05kkurbjunpreglow, heres the doom shareware wad:
18:51:23kkurbjunlinuxstb, one second
18:51:45kkurbjunoptions is second down on the menu
18:51:48kkurbjunmain that is
18:52:02kkurbjungamma is 3 down in options
18:52:10kkurbjunthen press right a few times
18:54:28amiconnkkurbjun: Just nitpicking: the grayscale buffer is unsigned char, not fb_data
18:54:37amiconnfb_data is for core lcd data only
18:54:57Kyomipreglow: I have that wad
18:55:01kkurbjunamiconn, isnt' that the definition of fb_data for <=8bit lcds?
18:55:05Kyomipreglow: Somewhere
18:55:10linuxstbkkurbjun: Do you want me to commit the change to the timer?
18:55:15amiconnIt is, therefore -> nitpicking <_
18:55:32kkurbjun:), I'll update it in my next commit
18:55:56amiconnThe palette calculation is not correct, that might be one reason for badly visible gfx
18:56:28kkurbjunamiconn, how should it be done?
18:56:31amiconnVisually correct rgb->gray is (3*r+6*g+b)/10, not (r+g+b)/3
18:56:53kkurbjunok, I'll add that in too
18:56:56*Kyomi has boothill.wad
18:57:06KyomiSomewhere... I think it's on that alchemy cd
18:57:19*linuxstb thinks more games need to use the grayscale lib.
18:57:28KyomiBut it's.. GRAY
18:57:32KyomiI <3 my color
18:57:46*amiconn thinks the same as linuxstb, probably for a longer timer
18:58:12kkurbjunlinuxstb, could you commit the change to the timer?
18:58:35linuxstbamiconn: I'm sure you have. I've thought it for about 30 seconds.
18:58:57linuxstbkkurbjun: Yes, I'll do it now.
18:59:12linuxstbIs the user timer implemented on the X5 yet?
19:00:06amiconnShould work on all coldfires
19:01:44linuxstbYep, timer.c is using CPU_COLDFIRE, so it should be working. I'm just wondering why Doom fails on the X5.
19:02:23MikachuKyomi: gray is better than black and white
19:03:18amiconnYes, and more gray is better than less gray
19:03:35amiconnTherefore the grayscale lib on H1x0: 4 shades -> 33 shades
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19:04:20Cassandralinuxstb, so you're getting Doom to run on H1xx?
19:04:28linuxstbIt works now :)
19:04:35CassandraFunktastic. ;)
19:04:49linuxstbIt's a crazy crazy site...
19:04:51*webguest73 eagerly awaits the colorfix
19:05:04CassandraThe wiki lied to me. I feel so used.
19:05:35linuxstbIt's only been working for 10 minutes...
19:06:18Cassandralinuxstb: Pah. The wiki should have noticed. ;)
19:06:41CassandraGood to know though. I was concerned that we wouldn't have H1xx Doom.
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19:07:15webguest73red :-X
19:07:18linuxstbNow if only someone could track down the ipod problem...
19:07:27dpassen2With the 1x0's LCD, I can't even imagine trying to play.
19:07:33Mikachui take it it doesn't crash in the sim?
19:10:44Cassandradpassen2, the update speed might be a problem, I suppose.
19:11:08linuxstbIt's much better on the h100 than you would imagine.
19:11:14webguest73It doesn't look too bad
19:11:25webguest73except it's lacking in contrast
19:11:36linuxstbThat's a bug - I think kkurbjan is about to fix it.
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19:11:49Cassandraamiconn, are we likely to have .rvf playback for Hxxx by 3.0?
19:12:06kkurbjunjust committed the last bit
19:12:30webguest73Man, that runs surprisingly well
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19:14:06*linuxstb just fixes his red builds.
19:15:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:15:15dpassen2 Is it possible to find old(er) changelogs than provided from the daily builds?
19:15:22CassandraI love the frequency with which we get. "I just discovered Rockbox, oh my God it's awesome" posts on the forums.
19:15:25dpassen2Say, from February?
19:15:32 Quit borges_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:15:42Cassandradpassen1, there's a list of all the changes since 2.5 somewhere.
19:16:07kkurbjunlinuxstb, do you have doom shareware on your player?
19:16:21dpassen2Cassandra: Thanks, I'll look for it.
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19:17:26kkurbjunI was curious to see what a timedemo gave, on the sim it's faster then the H300's
19:18:04linuxstbkkurbjun: Yes, that's the only wad I have.
19:18:21kkurbjuncould you run a timedemo and tell me what it gives you?
19:19:07linuxstbHow do I do that? Enable timedemo in the options, and then play game?
19:19:21kkurbjunit will save a timedemo.txt to /games/doom
19:19:23 Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
19:19:35kkurbjunit should also output the value to the screen
19:19:55linuxstbHow long does it take?
19:20:19kkurbjunbut it may not because I think the update I did should disable the printf output.. a couple of minutes
19:20:28kkurbjunyou can exit out of it if you need to
19:21:37kkurbjunx5's a little bit faster in the sim
19:22:41webguest73Hrm, doom should probably eat the first keypress it recieves
19:22:56preglowamiconn: did you ever test how many cpu clocks the grayscale stuff itself uses? i think some plugins seem pretty slow
19:23:03preglowplasma is a good example
19:24:23webguest73Why is "up" not "move forward"?
19:24:30webguest73this seems extremely awkward
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19:26:06linuxstbkkurbjun: "Timed 2134 gametics in 7133 realtics = 1076162861 frames per second"
19:27:02kkurbjunlinuxstb, that's not bad, it's about where doom for the H300's used to be; on the h300's it's down to ~4700 ticks though
19:27:27kkurbjunyeah, the frames per second calculation is a bit off
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19:27:55kkurbjunit's about 10 fps
19:28:04b00st4where can i get rockboy from?
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19:28:27b00st4cant find anythin on the page
19:28:28preglowit's included...
19:28:36b00st4it is?
19:28:43webguest73it is.
19:28:46b00st4so how can i start it?
19:28:53webguest73Play a .gb or .gbc
19:29:09b00st4where do i have to put em?
19:29:14preglowwherever you want
19:29:45b00st4but this roms wont appear in plugins folder?
19:30:00b00st4or menu
19:30:03kkurbjunlinuxstb, did you fix the red builds?
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19:30:52webguest73b00st4: no, they appear in your filesystem.. where you put it
19:30:57b00st4can i also run game boy advance roms?
19:31:10webguest73No. Gameboy or Gameboy Color
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19:32:04linuxstbkkurbjun: Yes, I think I fixed the red builds. But the build system hasn't picked it up.
19:32:31kkurbjunlinuxstb, ok I'll leave it alone then
19:32:41kkurbjunthanks for the help on the H100's
19:33:01linuxstbOops - my commit didn't happen. I've just committed it now.
19:34:33lostlogicI'm depressed, I thought doom ran on the ipoops.
19:34:43CassandraGuess you just weren't commited enough.
19:34:58Cassandralostlogic, I'm sure it will eventually.
19:35:02linuxstblostlogic: Make it happen :)
19:35:36lostlogicI'm having enough trouble finding time to work on track_skip.makebetter() :(
19:36:09preglowyou can't read back the timer cfg register on ipods
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19:38:07preglowlostlogic: what's wrong with it?
19:38:42lostlogicpreglow: it data aborted here...
19:38:54preglowlostlogic: i mean the track skip stuff
19:38:54amiconnCassandra: Very unlikely, I'd say. The 'wett' guy working on it was last seen in december, and he posted no patch.
19:39:16lostlogicpreglow: in track skipping, pcmbuf_* calls are made on both the audio thread and the codec thread, this is a Bad Thing (TM)
19:39:17amiconnThe difficult part is the sound, as the video plugin would have to access libmad
19:39:37preglowyeah, that's a nice pickle
19:39:49preglowi wonder if we should make multi-core operation a 3.1 goal...
19:39:55linuxstbThat shouldn't be too hard though - just link the plugin directly with libmad.
19:40:05preglowlinuxstb: what about iram?
19:40:21amiconnpreglow: Grayscale doesn't take many cpu cylces itself. Plasma is slow on H3x0 as well
19:40:22linuxstbAn rvf viewer shouldn't need it.
19:40:35preglowamiconn: right
19:40:38Cassandraamiconn, shame. Well, I suspect at some point someone'll port a video player as a plugin.
19:40:48preglowlinuxstb: ah, no, but what about better vid codecs
19:41:08amiconnWell, the grayscale frame refresh uses a few CPU percent (~10% is my educated guess) on H1x0
19:41:22linuxstbpreglow: Then we'll need to optimise the video/audio codecs together to make the best combined use of IRAM. Unless we swap them...
19:41:28preglowamiconn: at no cpu boost?
19:41:31amiconngray_ub_gray_bitmap will take some time
19:41:33CassandraHmmm. Does Rockbox not patch over H3xx US firmware at all?
19:41:36preglowlinuxstb: great idea!!1
19:42:12amiconnlinuxstb: That still leaves me with the problem how to control libmad and play the decoded pcm
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19:42:26amiconnPlayback systems make my brain hurt, even the simple one in wavplay.c ...
19:42:52preglowi also want to get rid of the bloody far calls
19:43:02amiconnI would really like to work on improving swcodec playback, but first I need to understand it :/
19:43:54Genre9mp3with all these games additions lately, we have a game-flood in the plugins folder...
19:44:18preglowyeah, we should make a separate game menu some time
19:44:40amiconnpreglow: Before even starting with the grayscale lib, I'll flip the lcd-2bit-horz driver into apple format
19:44:41CassandraWe need to rethink plugin browsing in general I feel.
19:44:52CassandraMaybe split them up by categories like in the manual. would be better if we had Browse plugins and browse games
19:44:58b00st4is there a rom for kirby's island?
19:45:01preglowamiconn: ah, so you decided on doing that, then
19:45:08amiconnThen I need to implement lcd_blit() and make a test plugin
19:45:09preglowb00st4: almost certainly order to measure the internal refresh rate.
19:45:39amiconnpreglow: Btw, did you get access to that mini 1g?
19:45:48CassandraCan you say "start menu". ;)
19:46:03b00st4hmm, cant find any, only for gba
19:46:14preglowamiconn: no, not yet, haven't seen her for a while
19:46:23preglowthe one with the mini, that is
19:47:07amiconnHmm. Would be nice to test the mini 1g build. Then I would try to unify mini 1g and 2g builds
19:47:25lostlogicamiconn: you're a classic german engineer −− you won't attack a problem until you completely understand it, and you won't be satisfied with a solution until it is 100% correct :)
19:47:46amiconnhehe, probably
19:47:47preglowi prefer to attack them before i understand them :)
19:47:51preglowusually makes for lovely code
19:47:58*amiconn disagrees
19:48:06Slasherihmm, it seems i got the conditional tagcache search engine working :)
19:48:08lostlogicI prefer to sink my teeth in and learn as I go :)
19:48:10amiconnIt makes for mess like this ipl stuff
19:48:19preglowamiconn: yes, i was somewhat ironic
19:49:00CassandraSlasheri - as in databox and searchengine? Cool.
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19:49:03amiconnpreglow: E.g: In the bootloader button code, there are some lines which could just be removed.... they don't serve any purpose
19:49:24preglowamiconn: lucky for me i didn't write that, then :)
19:49:27preglowfeel free to remove them
19:49:36preglowthe bootloader button code is sketchy at best anyway
19:49:49amiconnEverything that deals with the had_io variable, to be precise
19:50:00SlasheriCassandra: no, the one integrated in the tagcache engine (i still need to commit that)
19:50:32amiconnIt's only used to make sure to exit the loop - what the following break; already ensures. It's not checked afterwards
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19:51:11*amiconn just noticed that he is talking bullshit
19:51:32CassandraSlasheri, oh. Didn't even know there was one. Sounds better than databox anyway.
19:51:53Cassandraamiconn: Funny, we've known for years.
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19:52:33amiconnhmpf :(
19:52:41SlasheriCassandra: with that user can define how the tag browser structure works, for example: "Cool songs" artist ? year >= "2000" & genre = "metal" : album ? year >= "2000" : songs & title !~ "crap"
19:53:04Slasherifor example that would be a legit search-browse string parsed by the browser and tagcache engine :)
19:53:40Slasherithat would generate a browsing structure artist - album - song
19:53:57 Quit Nibbler ("Think of someone of "average" intelligence. Then think half the world is dumber than that.")
19:55:02CassandraLooks confusing. I think I'll need to see it in situ.
19:55:03Slasheriups, i had two syntax errors in the last part.. should have been song ? title ...
19:55:12Slasheriyeah, sure :)
19:55:29Slasherii just tried to implement a simple and easy parse syntax for it
19:55:52 Quit jbauman (Success)
19:56:37amiconnThe charging anim on player is broken
19:57:00*Slasheri hides ;)
19:57:17CassandraHow on earth did you break that, Slasheri?
19:57:23Slasherihmm, i did little adjustments to the animation a long time ago
19:57:28*webguest73 just thought what'd have been a good april 1st joke... "End of life for Archos units"
19:57:48Slasheribut i am not sure if that's the problem with the player
19:58:07CassandraOh, I should remind people that we are officially in feature freeze. No new features in CVS, please.
19:58:52Slasherisure.. i just hope anybody minds if i commit that last feature for tagcache.. because it would be a big enhancement for it
19:59:23amiconnSlasheri: p l e a s e keep an eye on code size
19:59:49Slasheriamiconn: hmm, how much we have left now for archos?
20:00:03Bgermidkay it seems that u've broken the quickscreen on the remote ...
20:01:09preglowtagcache is a release goal anyway
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20:03:29hclwait, i'm on more channels on this server xD;
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20:03:41SlasheriHCl :)
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20:18:39kkurbjunlinuxstb, nummappatches with that new patch will be messed up on big endians
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20:19:46kkurbjunI guess you could assign nummappatches with your code and then do a nummappatches = LONG(nummappatches);
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20:21:29Bgerwow, i managed to get "playlist control file is invalid"...
20:22:31Bgerkkurbjun btw i hope u aren't disappointed by my changes in the doom plugin
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20:26:06kkurbjunBger, nope, don't have any problems with it
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20:39:08linuxstb_kkurbjan: Unless I've misunderstood, the LONG() macro does little-endian to host-endian conversion. Which is exactly what my code does - on all platforms.
20:39:27godzirraHow do I plug in my rockbox-ipod and have it charge instead of flipping to ipod emergency recovery mode?
20:39:34lostlogicgodzirra: hold menu
20:39:35kkurbjunlinuxstb, yeah, I just realized that
20:39:37linuxstb_Hold MENU
20:39:40kkurbjunsorry about that
20:40:23kkurbjunlinuxstb, I'm guessing you havn't had a chance to see what is causing the large value for nummappatches?
20:40:49linuxstb_Not yet. But I'm also not really sure where to start looking.
20:41:05kkurbjunthe only structures that I could see being read incorrectly would be in w_wad.h
20:41:24kkurbjunwadinfo_t and filelump_t
20:41:52kkurbjunI don't know if the arm compiler is padding all of those chars out to int's, but if it is that could be an issue
20:42:20kkurbjunotherwise those structs should be alligned properly
20:42:52kkurbjunall the other structs that are on disk have the PACKEDATTR
20:42:58linuxstb_Those two structs look fine. The two char arrays are both multiples of 4 bytes, so gcc shouldn't add any extra padding.
20:43:41kkurbjunthat's what I figured, but when you suggested that the wad loading may be broken that was the only thing I could think of that might be different for the arm
20:43:46*amiconn wonders why 'mouse sensitivity' in doom's menu adjusts gamma...
20:44:28kkurbjunamiconn, I havn't created a graphic for gamma
20:44:38kkurbjunI need to add that into prboom.wad
20:45:08amiconnaha, so this menu's internal function can be changed, and you did so...