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#rockbox log for 2006-04-12

00:00:00preglowisn't that copyright a bit... pointless?
00:00:08preglowCopyright 2006 A Bunch of People
00:00:22 Quit `3nergy (Connection reset by peer)
00:00:32Mikachuthose are just informative anyway since copyright is automatic
00:00:44preglowand to whom does it fall?
00:00:56bluebrother^hmm, just checked the patch, seems fine for me.
00:00:57MikachuThe Authors
00:01:01sharpeanyone have any idea how the raster counter on the c64 works, i mean, how often it's changed...
00:01:03lostlogicwth, there were two buffered events and 1 unbuffered event for the same track, this can't be right at all.
00:01:07bluebrother^how should we do it then?
00:01:26preglowdamn, i need to write manual entries more often, rate of pure nonsense per typed word seems to have gone down
00:02:31preglowbut okiedoke anyway, i don't really know, i was just asking
00:02:45bluebrother^we don't have a file with all manual authors, so I think its best to refer to the CREDITS.
00:03:06bluebrother^we could add the main contributors to the front page.
00:03:13preglowperhaps just include a page with all of them included in a really, really tiny font, mozilla-ad style ;)
00:03:14bluebrother^like the previous version had.
00:03:41bluebrother^preglow: you mean the CREDITS file? This is intended to be included in the appendix.
00:03:45preglowbluebrother^: oh, right
00:03:57FebsMikachu, under U.S. copyright law, the copyright notice has some purpose that is more than simply informative.
00:04:17FebsIt prevents an infringer from raising the defense of innocent infringement.
00:04:24bluebrother^which is the cause I'm referring to the appendix for a list of all contributors. The list is already kind of long ;-)
00:04:25Mikachurockbox is swedish though.. but not sure how that works when you distribute
00:04:51FebsI disagree. Rockbox is international.
00:05:16Bagderand always was
00:05:19FebsFor example, I wrote some parts of the manual, so I would be one of the copyright holders.
00:06:05 Join adamdullenty [0] (
00:06:24adamdullentyrandom off-topic question if I may...
00:06:31*Mikachu explodes
00:06:42adamdullenty...or not then :P
00:06:44*bluebrother^ hears the bang.
00:06:50Mikachufeel free
00:06:57Mikachui've already exploded and everything
00:07:05preglowbluebrother^: if you think it looks better, i say commit it
00:07:28amiconnXavierGr:"> As usual...
00:07:32 Quit solexx__2 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:07:34*Febs pictures Mikachu as the restaurant patron in Monty Python's Meaning of Life ...
00:07:37adamdullentyhaha, okay. anyone familiar with linux - is there a key combination to exit the current window
00:07:52amiconnThis should be equal or better than version 2
00:07:55MikachuFebs: i'm probably the absolute opposite of him
00:07:56 Join tempel [0] (n=tempi@unaffiliated/tempi)
00:07:59Mikachuadamdullenty: what window?
00:08:00adamdullentywell, fullscreen window... was testing a game and exited, it's left me with a black screen... the cursor still moves around tho
00:08:02bluebrother^adamdullenty: depends on your desktop environment
00:08:07adamdullentysuse with KDE
00:08:26Mikachuadamdullenty: try switching to the console and run killall -9 nameofgameexecutable
00:08:36bluebrother^you could try ctrl-alt-esc and click on the window (does a kill)
00:08:56Bagderor ctrl-alt-backspace to kill X
00:09:07amiconn"kill -9", the bofh journal...
00:09:07Bagderor rather restart it
00:09:26preglowMikachu: you don't like eating until you explode?
00:09:37Mikachui am also extremely thin
00:09:43preglowi tried it today
00:09:44preglownot comfortable
00:09:55adamdullentyhow do I find out a list of what is running, at the console?
00:10:08Mikachuit's WAFER thin
00:10:10adamdullentyit was a random game in the menu [currently updating from the web, would rather not restart the bugger]
00:10:18Mikachuadamdullenty: ps axfu
00:10:22bluebrother^ps aux
00:10:23 Quit JdGordon ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
00:10:29 Join JdGordon [0] (
00:10:29adamdullentysorry about this, very off topic - but I knew someone in here would know their stuff linux-wise :)
00:10:49*Febs wonders if he should be offended by preglow's "pure nonsense per word" comment.
00:11:05FebsI wrote the crossfeed section of the manual that preglow just edited. :)
00:11:07 Join _Lucretia_ [0] (
00:11:09lostlogicI think he meant that he needs to be writing more to keep the nonsense ration up
00:11:42*bluebrother^ notices he should write more to keep his touchtyping better
00:11:45sharpewell, as far as i can tell, it's not very important how i handle the raster register, other than increasing it every cycle.
00:11:54adamdullentyMikachu: thanks :) worked fine, the killall thing.
00:12:01 Join solexx___ [0] (
00:12:04sharpeas i suppose the timing would really only matter on the actual c64
00:12:14sharpeso, i'll just keep it increasing
00:12:22sharpeand loop back around.
00:12:25Bagdersharpe: timing was crucial for many things on the c64
00:12:32sharpeyeah, i know
00:12:37 Part tempel ("Leaving")
00:13:07 Quit Rob2222 (Connection timed out)
00:13:16sharpebut i'm not sure how the raster counter is.
00:13:19Bagderwe have a bunch of demos from the 80s you can try ;-)
00:13:36Bagderwe = me, Linus, Bj÷rn and friends
00:14:28preglowFebs: ahaha, i meant that i seem to be expressing myself somewhat less like a child after having done some off-irc writing
00:14:30bluebrother^I still have a lot of c64 disks somewhere ... but no possibility to read them anymore.
00:14:36GargamaleIf I have started playing a song, I pressed SELECT (on ipod) and I have qued up another song, how do I get back to the WPS screen?
00:14:44Bagderthat's our man
00:15:00 Quit herz42 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:15:15preglowboogaloo is linus, yea?
00:15:16muesli__whats the past of forbid?
00:15:20Bagderpreglow: yes
00:15:44muesli__yeah..i had something in mind too
00:15:53Mikachuforbade is correct
00:16:12preglowahh, blimey, how i love oldschool scene gfx
00:16:48GargamaleIf I have started playing a song, I pressed SELECT (on ipod) and I have qued up another song, how do I get back to the WPS screen?
00:17:41GargamaleThe manual says Please add correct keys
00:17:56sharpebagder, do you have any idea, as to how many raster lines are displayed/counted/whatever...?
00:18:42 Quit warthawg ("my work here is done")
00:18:42Bagdersharpe: I don't remember exactly, but 1) they differ between NTSC and PAL and 2) they're about 300 something
00:19:07sharpei knew they differed from NTSC and PAL, i'm not sure how many lines though...
00:19:12bluebrother^preglow, Febs: just commited it with some small changes. I hope the most will like it ;-)
00:19:36Bagdersharpe: my memory certainly is fading on such details ;-)
00:20:08Bagderbut I do remember that d020 is for ;-)
00:20:22amiconnGargamale: Press Play (afaik)
00:20:26sharpeborder color :)
00:20:28Bagderlda #$ 00
00:20:30Bagdersta $d020
00:20:41sharpei'm reading that already.
00:20:41 Quit X5L ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:21:01bluebrother^sys 49152 :)
00:21:46preglowbluebrother^: looks better
00:21:48Febsbluebrother^, I think that the leading needs to be adjusted so that there is more space between paragraphs.
00:22:05Febs(this is a general comment, not related to preglow's changes)
00:22:18 Join solexx__2 [0] (
00:22:21*amiconn spots plugin adaptions for mini in cvs :)
00:23:21sharpemy god.
00:23:43sharpei didn't realize i had forgotten where it was, and was trying to find it
00:23:45XavierGramiconn: new version?
00:23:51XavierGrok let me compile
00:23:54bluebrother^Febs: what leading do you mean? The front page?
00:24:22bluebrother^I tried increasing the spacing between paragraphs globally. I like it better.
00:24:36FebsAlso, I find the use of a table like in section 4.5 (channels) more aesthetically appealing than hanging indents like in section 4.6 (cross-feed), and I'm wondering which you prefer.
00:24:43FebsI meant globally.
00:24:56sharpepal: 312, ntsc: 262/263
00:25:12sharpewhich should i use?
00:25:23bluebrother^I tried setting parindent to 0 and increasing parskip about .3\baselineskip
00:26:17sharpeeh, i'll use the number of lines for PAL...
00:26:24*preglow wonders how the hell we have space to put all the huffman tables in libmad in iram
00:26:29GargamaleIf I add music to my DAP's HDD, do I need to manually update the tag cache
00:26:32GargamaleOr does it do it
00:26:39herz42_lazy lostlogic: you want to insert "buffer[MAX_LOGF_ENTRY]=0;" into logfdisp.c:89
00:26:58lostlogichmmmmmm, some tracks are getting 2 track entries for 1 track, well this explains plenty of bugs, I think.
00:27:01 Quit solexx_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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00:27:50bluebrother^Febs: I'm somewhat inbetween about tables vs. description lists. For short descriptions like in 4.6 I think a table would look better.
00:27:54lostlogicherz42_: I did it a different but similar way :-P
00:28:22lostlogicherz42_: preglos's comment made me realize that I was indeed being a fool
00:29:21herz42_lostlogic: you probably did it right, as I think my way might not work on some targets
00:29:56lostlogicherz42_: see CVS
00:30:06 Quit solexx___ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:30:18preglowi don't think this libmad patch will do anything at all for arm
00:30:27preglowbut it seems to shorten the code with about 100 bytes
00:31:00dpassen1But nice improvements for Coldfire?
00:31:47dpassen1Can you verify that it produces bit identical results?
00:31:48preglowthey say so
00:32:10 Quit ender` (" Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it.")
00:32:10preglowi'll just take their word for it, since i have no m68k compiler, i can't be bothered to test
00:32:30preglowi can't see why it shouldn't get bit-identical results
00:32:35preglowi think you'd hear a bug in this code very well
00:32:52 Join solexx__ [0] (
00:33:08sharpeyay for bitwise operations
00:33:37herz42_lostlogic: actually working on playback.c? - then you probably know that it breaks the logf build atm? (just to let you know, no need to hurry)
00:34:00preglowit does?
00:34:30herz42_preglow: just a undeclared var used in logf()
00:35:01Febsbluebrother: I prefer the tables. I find the hanging indents to be a bit ragged looking, particularly when there are multiple levels of indents.
00:35:22XavierGramiconn: I get the same tick levels with CVS.
00:35:37man_in_shackdoes anyone here have an iriver 300 series?
00:35:41 Quit _Lucretia_ ("Leaving")
00:35:53lostlogicherz42_: yeah, I know... have a fix in the file, but also have some misc. debug in the file, so not committing quite yet
00:35:54amiconnXavierGr: Hmm. Is my version 2 better or worse than that?
00:36:09amiconn(if you can remember)
00:36:30XavierGrversion 2 you mean the previous from the latest?
00:36:44XavierGror the one before?
00:37:20Febsbluebrother^, I think that the increased space between paragraphs looks better, but that we could use a bit more space to bit consistent with some of the other styles.
00:37:50amiconnThe one with the 2 in the name
00:38:01FebsExample: in section 4.5, there is less space before the sentence "Crossfeed has the following options" than after.
00:38:21bluebrother^Febs: something like .6\baselineskip?
00:38:42 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (
00:38:43XavierGramiconn:let me test
00:39:38FebsYes. Do you know offhand what the spacing is between the various crossfeed options (and other sections of the manual that use that same style)?
00:39:54 Join solexx___ [0] (
00:39:54***Alert Mode level 1
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00:39:54***Alert Mode level 3
00:40:17bluebrother^no, I need to look this up.
00:40:47bluebrother^the space is because of switching environments −− I'll look how we could change this.
00:41:47 Quit solexx__2 (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:42:15FebsGreat. I hope you don't mind these minor comments. I think that overall the manual looks great.
00:42:33amiconnBagder: Your x5 lcd driver optimisation is only faster if you're lucky and lcd_write_data() is called with an aligned address
00:43:08amiconnAlso, if you were able to remove the table lookup, then the table wasn't correct
00:44:18bluebrother^Febs: not at all. I'm just trying to tweak these optical glitches as I'm motivated to.
00:44:28sharpefor timing, should i use a general one megahertz, or the actual pal speed, ~0.985 MHz?
00:44:43bluebrother^I have also some ideas to simplify the manual, but most shouldn't be too important before 3.0
00:45:09 Join solexx__2 [0] (
00:45:09***Alert Mode level 4
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00:45:09DBUGEnqueued KICK solexx__2
00:45:09***Alert Mode level 6
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00:45:17XavierGramiconn: 4 seems the same (maybe a tiny bit better) than 2.
00:45:27amiconnOkay, then I'll commit that
00:45:40XavierGr4 is more fast?
00:45:45amiconnRemote LCD update is significantly faster than CVS
00:46:03amiconnYes, 4 is a bit faster than 2 (and 2 is faster than 3)
00:46:16XavierGrgreat then
00:46:18amiconnIt's faster both with & without ticking fix
00:47:31 Quit solexx_ (Connection timed out)
00:47:38bluebrother^sharpe: stick to .985 MHz
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00:48:29 Join citizenkeith [0] (
00:49:00sharpei'm like out of it today.
00:49:01amiconnBagder: The FPS results for 11MHz are missing...
00:49:32bluebrother^my battery's going crazy :(
00:50:15 Quit solexx__2 (Remote closed the connection)
00:50:17 Join solexx_ [0] (
00:52:15citizenkeithI'd like to help out with 3G. I'm not a programmer, but would be willing to help you guys test stuff. I haven't tried installing anything yet, so I might need my hand held. :)
00:52:45 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
00:54:33 Quit solexx__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:54:49preglowwe pretty much need a programmer with a unit
00:55:10***Alert Mode OFF
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00:55:36lostlogicbug in read next metadata? maybe... very maybe.
00:55:54citizenkeithin the forum, linuxstb mentioned that somebody who could test stuff... hang out in IRC and try things on their 3G
00:57:06bluebrother^time for me to go now. Got pretty late again ... cu guys.
00:57:31 Quit solexx___ (Connection timed out)
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00:58:00 Quit bluebrother^ ("Leaving")
00:59:13preglowchar const *lol; means the data pointed to is constant, yas?
00:59:36lostlogicnot positive, but I think yes, amiconn?
01:00:05sharpepreglow... i don't think so?
01:00:25amiconnpreglow: No. This would be a constant pointer pointing to non-constant data
01:00:36sharpeyay constants
01:01:02amiconnpreglow: If you want a (non-constant) pointer to constant data, this would be const char *
01:01:30lostlogicgah, not that.
01:01:44lostlogichas a chart.
01:02:05preglowamiconn: i'm just getting some warnings in libmad with gcc 4.1 in libmad synth.c line 778, assignment from incompatible pointer type
01:02:14preglowbut it looks pretty correct to me
01:02:22amiconnIs this cvs?
01:03:05preglowit's an sbsample assignment
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01:05:12 Quit citizenkeith ()
01:06:50amiconnpreglow: I'm not sure why gcc complains. Maybe it complains because this is an assignment to a const pointer.
01:07:32amiconnThis is actually nonsense, but I would have expected earlier gccs to complain as well then
01:07:50amiconnWhat happens if you drop the 'const'
01:08:00amiconn(in line 771)?
01:09:07preglowyeah, that was it
01:09:13preglowjust seems a bit weird
01:11:05preglowi would have called then an obvious error if anything
01:12:26lostlogicI hearby declare playback working. If you want to argue about that, take it up with my left pinky toe's nail, I think it might care.
01:12:44lostlogic(ok, actually I have a couple things worth investigating)
01:14:33 Quit webguest33 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:15:55 Join |Josh| [0] (i=|Josh|@unaffiliated/josh/x-000000001)
01:16:31CtcpIgnored 5 channel CTCP requests in 5 minutes and 15 seconds at the last flood
01:16:31*preglow throws the confetti
01:16:40*preglow retracts the confetti
01:16:45preglowyes, it turns out that is possible
01:17:22*|Josh| is just re-adding his 25GB library after installing iPL
01:17:58|Josh|iPL isn't even working yet :P
01:18:00lostlogic... perpetual motion... you just undid entropy
01:18:03|Josh|Freezes on bootup
01:18:10|Josh|Rockbox is so much easier :)
01:18:58sharpeokay, hopefully i've gotten...
01:19:06sharpesomewhat the vic implemented.
01:19:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:26:28 Quit maeck ("Chatzilla 0.9.65 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20060202]")
01:26:41preglowwell, this libmad patch sure as hell didn't do much for arm
01:26:58preglowbut i'll just commit it anyway, since it at least made the the code a bit smaller and makes coldfire faster
01:27:53 Quit matsl ("Leaving")
01:29:19 Quit solexx_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:30:33*preglow sets his default editor to something that is actually usable
01:30:45 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
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01:31:51sharpenow to try to compile it.
01:32:39 Quit obo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:33:05preglowlostlogic: vim
01:33:19preglowthe default was nano, god knows why i didn't change it before now
01:33:29preglowbloody thing was strangling my commit messages
01:34:49lostlogicall playback.c commits by me between 1.217 and now total 902 + and 910 -. I accomplished a sum total of -8 lines. :)
01:35:34lostlogichardest 8 lines I ever unwrote.
01:36:46Rob2222_lol lostlogic
01:38:12preglowlostlogic: any plans to split playback.c a bit?
01:38:23lostlogicpreglow: it's been on the brain
01:38:49preglowand btw, in audio thread debug, why doesn't pcmbufdesc never reach the max number?
01:39:02lostlogicbut it was tough before because the thread separation was iffy
01:39:08preglowever, that is
01:39:29lostlogicpreglow: because it's based on a minimum average size of chunk, and the chances of that minimum average size ever happenign are very small.
01:40:07lostlogicif the playback system is working 'well' it should only use about 1/2 of the bufdescs
01:40:55lostlogicbut if for some reason both buffers were running low for a significant period, it would be making more frequent commits to the buffer and the size of chunk would fall
01:41:25lostlogic*shrug* I'm not saying it's the best system, but it's reasonable. it's better than teh fixed 32 track descriptors :-P
01:43:13preglowmy brain would probably do some weird combination of explode and implode if i tried coding something similar myself, so i'll just continue with the smiling and the nodding
01:43:45lostlogicFortunately for us, my brain would do the same if I tried to write an equalizer in asm, so in the end, we get a working firmware :)
01:44:48 Quit Daishi ("Client exiting...")
01:45:20lostlogicI'm going to kill a forum poster.;topicseen#new
01:45:32 Join Administrator__ [0] (
01:45:41lostlogicpolluxx2006, WAY TO GIVE ME EXACTLY A USELESS BUG REPORT
01:46:39preglowwe need a "Fired into orbit around earth" patch closing message
01:47:03preglowand a "FFSLOLOMG" for the really nasty ones
01:47:47lostlogicMikachu: how's playlist insert stuff?
01:48:27muesli__I like the fact that version 3.1 is codenamed Fireworks and is due in November.
01:48:28muesli__People on the UK will understand
01:48:36muesli__so what? :-)
01:49:55lostlogicanyone who sees V for Vendeta will understand
01:50:23 Join webguest34 [0] (
01:50:42muesli__the dark mark?
01:50:51muesli__the dark lord is back?
01:51:03muesli__damn, read to much h.p. ;-)
01:52:08preglowbagder will be back in the morning
01:52:08 Quit webguest34 (Client Quit)
01:52:18Mikachulostlogic: haven't tried yet
01:53:43 Quit TCK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:54:50*preglow has a look at the libmad last frame bug
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01:56:04amiconnpreglow: Yellow builds...
01:56:15 Quit Kohlriba ("Fast alle Menschen sind Regenw├╝rmer")
01:56:58preglowamiconn: eh??
01:57:05 Quit MulziSAW10 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:57:25preglowwhat's wrong with that?
01:58:10 Join `3nergy [0] (
01:58:32amiconnApparently gcc < 4.1.0 doesn't like what gcc >= 4.1.0 wants, and vice versa
01:58:46preglowbut how can the current code be wrong
01:59:14preglowit's just a bloody simple no-frills pointer assignment
02:00:02sharpemaybe gcc just doesn't like you :\
02:00:13preglowi know it doesn't
02:00:23Mikachui like you
02:00:32lostlogicseeks that trigger buffer fill => freeze
02:01:39 Quit Administrator__ ("Leaving")
02:02:56lostlogicI swear I fixed this exact problem yesterday.
02:03:08 Quit Angel_of_Death (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:05:23preglowtime to sleep
02:05:26 Join damaki [0] (
02:05:40preglowgotta get up early and relocate to something more mountainy and act the fool for a number of days soon
02:05:50preglowsomeplace, too
02:06:04sharpebe sure you act the fool, very well.
02:06:09preglowoh, i will
02:07:12amiconnThis ticking reduction looks quite different from what I thought it would look when I started working on it...
02:07:44lostlogicg'night preglow
02:07:51Paul_The_NerdHave a good time Preglow
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02:16:04XavierGramiconn: in a worse or better way?
02:17:10sharpethis is perplexing
02:17:44 Quit odoyletul ()
02:18:05amiconnXavierGr: It looks different from what I expected to be a good method to reduce EMI
02:19:11 Join |Josh|_ [0] (i=|Josh|@unaffiliated/josh/x-000000001)
02:19:34XavierGririver hardware designers and programmers should be brought here for extra training!
02:19:39 Quit damaki_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:19:45lostlogicI am an idiot. Had a debugging hack cause a bug I was trying to fix to be unfixable locally.
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02:20:14Mikachulostlogic: after you are done i will do a count of how many times you have been an idiot or stupid
02:20:19gunpowdawould anyone happen to have the dictionary files? I converted them myself at one point but I had to format my ipod
02:20:22 Quit |Josh|_ (Client Quit)
02:20:22lostlogicMikachu: :)
02:20:25Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: You say "I'm an idiot" far too often, and frankly I find it a little doubtful.
02:21:30sharpewhat do i say far too often? :D
02:22:22Mikachuyou're very verbose while coding, but nothing in particular
02:22:31lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: Should I just state the fact "I made an obvious mistake"?
02:22:43Mikachudo me, do me!
02:23:18Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: 'eh. You could always pretend like it was an obscure and cryptic bug, and inflate your worth.
02:23:37lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: I do that enough when I post diffstats
02:24:48lostlogic 1 file changed, 861 insertions(+), 913 deletions(-)
02:25:06lostlogicwoo, with my debugging removed, I'm up to -42 lines!
02:25:11lostlogicthat really inflates my worth.
02:25:17sharpeguess what i'm up to
02:25:38lostlogicsharpe: I guess 1100 lines in the emu so far, but that's a pretty arbitrary number, so please tell me
02:25:58sharpeincluding the cpu emulator?
02:26:02lostlogicno, w/o
02:26:34lostlogicooh, now I want to read it to see how you emulate a c64 in 400 lines! :)
02:26:45sharpewell, the cpu emulator is...
02:26:59sharpeeh, can't remember.
02:27:01sharpeone sec.
02:27:01lostlogicI mean playing audio apparently takes 2600 just for file buffer management (and some misc. side stuff)
02:28:17sharpethe cpu emulator is 749 lines
02:28:48herz42_hmm, I think I found some new kind of bug (at least to me). While the player was buffering up, I skipped to the next song. Nothing played. When looking to the audio thread, the codec buffer was somewhere at position -760MB/26MB (yes, negative!). In the meantime (after almost a minute) it crashed, as it probably overwrote some sensible parts of the memory :(
02:29:13sharpeooh, fun.
02:29:48sharpeso, you were actually very close with the 1100...
02:29:54lostlogicherz42_: yay! sounds like a bug indeed
02:30:09herz42_hmm, and it seems reproducible...
02:30:11lostlogicsharpe: ahaha, damn, should have swung the other way on that question... since I was going random it was really a 50/50 by that point :)
02:30:28lostlogicherz42_: I'll be looking for it.
02:30:43herz42_lostlogic: do you have your player running?
02:30:57lostlogicherz42_: yep
02:31:07lostlogicand just skipped during buffering and no crash
02:31:17herz42_with a stop before?
02:31:19lostlogicwhat cvs revision of playback.c are you running?
02:31:24lostlogicwhat do you mean with a stop before?
02:31:35lostlogicoh, play and immediately skip?
02:32:02lostlogicso far no crash reproducing that as closely as possible.
02:32:35Mikachuhow do i typecast variables in gdb? (if anyone knows it off the top of their head)
02:32:42herz42_lostlogic: I'm trying with mp3 136kbps avg if that could make a difference
02:33:10lostlogicherz42_: my tests are mp3 and ogg mostly between 128 and 250kbps, with a few flac 750kbps in there
02:33:27lostlogicherz42_: what device are you? (and yes, I always will forget)
02:33:35Mikachui got it
02:33:47herz42_video 5g
02:34:06lostlogicso wait, you're telling me that you have a reproduceable crash on the same device I'm running!/
02:34:24sharpewhat's the refresh rate on PAL video?
02:34:30sharpeor framerate
02:34:33sharpethank ye
02:34:38Mikachurefresh rate is 50 hz
02:34:46sharpethought so
02:34:54herz42_lostlogic: I have tried with some albums and it doesn't happen for all, but some of then
02:35:30lostlogicand the process to create this is to browse to an album in the file browser (with playback stopped) and select a file, hit select on it, and then immediately after audio starts skip to the next track?
02:35:36sharpecouldn't i set up a timer to call the function to draw the screen?
02:35:46XavierGrany idea what will happen if I loop my USB cable between the USB OTG port and normal USB port on the same H300. (with the default firmware)
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02:35:57herz42_lostlogic: yes
02:37:10lostlogic:( no dice for me still
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02:38:34lostlogicherz42_: TBH, I am inclined to believe you, because I got similar behavior before my last commit on a seek forward, but since my last commit, I can't cause it... and I can't think of another code path that would be inclined toward this sort of behavior
02:38:55herz42_lostlogic: actually, the more I try the less it happens...
02:39:29lostlogicherz42_: ahahahaha, damn, well I'll still keep my eyes open for a code path that could result in corrupting a buffer pointer.
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02:41:47herz42_lostlogic: that'd be nice. I'll try to not skip at the wrong times until then :)
02:42:05lostlogicherz42_: :-P
02:42:51amiconnpreglow: What happened to Antonios' last name in your commit msg??
02:43:18gunpowdais the 5g capable of recording audio from headphones like the 3g?
02:43:36lostlogicherz42_: I've just abused the hell out of it with no dice :(
02:44:22linuxstbgunpowda: Probably. But no-one's tried it yet AFAIK.
02:44:36herz42_lostlogic: what size are those "partially buf " logf messages usually?
02:45:33lostlogicherz42_: They are the amount of the track currently being buffered that has been buffered when the message is printed
02:46:01lostlogicso their size is anywhere between 32k and the size of the track.
02:46:27lostlogicthe space between them depends on how much the codec and the playback are fighting, and on whether or not other audio events are posted in the meantime.
02:48:15sharpei've found something else in the rockbox source that doesn't like me
02:49:52herz42_lostlogic: ah, ok. while things go wild it list those partially buffered messages (9 of them), then an "audio_skip" message, then some sequence of "Check new track buffer"/"Clearing tracks:4/7, 0" (3 times) and then things repeat.
02:50:20herz42_But that probably is when it buffers tracks into nirvana....
02:52:04lostlogicIf it gets 3 of those check new track buffer messages, that means that the codec thread has requested a new track 3 times
02:52:56herz42_its 3 times the double "Check new track buffer"/"Clearing tracks:4/7, 0"
02:53:18lostlogicand then it initializes the buffer fill 3 times, but each one should be safe from breakage, I think... *reviews*
02:53:23amiconnlostlogic: I can't cause the described crash on H300 either.
02:53:30lostlogicamiconn: thanks
02:53:43lostlogicamiconn: how's playback feeling? Time to work on voice mostly, I think :)
02:53:44amiconnFurthermore, with one of your latest fixes, the strange delayed pause seems to be gone as well
02:54:04amiconns/delayed pause/delayed stop/
02:54:22lostlogicamiconn: great!
02:54:38lostlogicthe code is a lot cleaner now, and the code paths for operations clearly defined
02:54:47gunpowdaany amazing changes since late march?
02:54:54amiconnHmm, but I just got a strange effect while skipping back
02:55:03lostlogicdo tell
02:55:27lostlogicgunpowda: I started and have pretty much finished a major rework of the swcodec playback engine.
02:55:28amiconnI skipped from track 1 to track 2, and while the first few seconds of track 2 were playing, I skipped back again.
02:56:02lostlogicand got audio from track 1 before a stop in audio, and then a real play of track 1?
02:56:07lostlogic(because that's what I got)
02:56:30amiconnWPS displayed track 1, but it didn't start. Then WPS display briefly changed from tag data to pure file name (as if the file wasn't buffered at all), then finally rebuffered and started playing
02:56:45Mikachuis it a feature that seeking slows down toward the end of a track?
02:56:48amiconnThe whole sequence took several seconds.
02:56:54amiconnMikachu: yes
02:56:54lostlogicMikachu: yes
02:56:57Mikachugood :)
02:57:02gunpowdasounds good
02:57:24sharpewow, seems after the first time the timer executes, rockbox freezes.
02:57:24Mikachumy seek to the end seems to work fine now, skipped to next song
02:57:43amiconnNow it played track 1 again when it ended, instead of track 2...
02:57:45lostlogicamiconn: hmmmmmmmm I wonder what would make that so slow... I mean I can explain it, but it should only take <1 second
02:57:53amiconn(No, I don't have repeat enabled)
02:57:57sharpeor no...
02:58:11lostlogicamiconn: uh-oh, that's a lot like the big read_next_metadata problem that I fixed earlier.
02:58:24Mikachulostlogic: what should happen if i seek beyond the B marker?
02:58:48lostlogicMikachu: when you get to EOT it should go back to A
02:58:58Mikachuno problems then
02:59:03amiconnI'll let track 1 play up to the end again. let's see what happens
02:59:10lostlogicamiconn: please do :)
02:59:23Mikachucan you add some debug info to wps tags? :)
02:59:25amiconnHmm, forgot to tell, it happened after I seeked close to the end of track 1
02:59:35amiconn(5 seconds or so)
02:59:55lostlogicso, seek to ~EOT, skip to next track, skip back?
03:00:00Mikachulostlogic: it actually went to the start of the track, not to marker A
03:00:32lostlogicMikachu: that doesn't seem right, but I'm not sure wha tthe AB repeat code is designed to do any more...
03:00:34amiconnNo. I seeked close to the end of track 1 and let it play. Rockbox repeated track 1 instead of playing track 2....
03:00:42Mikachulostlogic: okay
03:00:50lostlogicamiconn: ahhh, that's the bug that Mikachu had reported earlier, weird.
03:00:51Mikachulostlogic: i guess if you seek outside of the range you're on your own :)
03:01:45Mikachuwill the progress bar eventually be synced to what's outputted in the headphones?
03:01:55amiconnOkay, now it started playing track 2 properly
03:02:13lostlogicfor AB? eventually, I'm sure someone will figure it out, but it's a highly non-trivial problem on swcodec, unfortunately
03:02:17amiconnI'll retry the procedure
03:02:42lostlogicamiconn: ok, I'm poking at related code for both this and herz' bug, so hopefully I find a wrong line.
03:03:07amiconnHmm, now it worked...
03:03:24*amiconn hates 'maybe-bugs'
03:03:34Mikachuthe wps changes to the next song before the current track is done playing too
03:03:34*amiconn needs to sleep...
03:03:51lostlogicamiconn: yeah, me too, based on these two things, I'm inclined to admit that there's a bug in track skipping, but it's not going to be an easy one to find.
03:04:00Mikachuwith the bar sitting at 0 until it starts playing, so i guess the actual bar is always in the right place
03:04:20amiconnI'll test more tomorrow, during my commute
03:04:22lostlogicMikachu: hmm, yes, I think that my changes cause that... I can probably resolve that part somewhat easily though.
03:04:31lostlogicthanks all for testing and patience!
03:04:38lostlogicamiconn: have a good sleep :)
03:04:43Mikachusort of same thing happens when i select a new song while playing
03:04:52Mikachuthat is, a new directory from the filesystem
03:05:06Mikachuthe old one keeps playing for a bit with progress at 0 until the new one starts
03:05:09lostlogicyeah, I set changed_track = true too soon / too often
03:05:15amiconnI was thinking about the voice clash with playback pause. I have no real idea how to solve this. The pcm stream is paused in order to continue seamlessly from where it was pased, correct?
03:05:25lostlogicamiconn: yeah
03:05:31Mikachui would possibly expect the old one to stop right away and the song i selected to start playing
03:05:51amiconnThen how could that work in conjunction with voice?
03:05:52lostlogicamiconn: can probably record the pcm buffer point from the fiq / dma on pause, and halt all buffer operations, allowing inserts (beep / voice) to play, then resume where it was
03:06:23lostlogicbut getting all fo that to work, especially ensuring buffer space is sufficient for voice playback will be hard.
03:06:33amiconnHmm, sounds difficult...
03:06:41lostlogicand I can't think of another way to do it :(
03:06:43Mikachudid you remove my end of track thing from the wiki or should i?
03:06:50lostlogicMikachu: it might still be there
03:06:54lostlogicamiconn may have triggered it
03:06:59Mikachuah okay
03:07:04amiconnWould it be possible to make the pause non-immediate, and let one of the pcm buffer blocks run empty before actually pausing?
03:07:10Mikachui see you've put a checkmark on it
03:07:10lostlogicand I'll cull entries from there, others (prefferably should add)
03:07:25amiconnThen we have at least one free block to play with
03:07:31amiconnHow long is one block?
03:07:34lostlogicamiconn: yes, the pause would then be executed in the pcmbuf.c code, instead of pcm_playback.c
03:08:00Mikachui'm getting a jumpy progress bar too when seeking, but maybe it's just cosmetic
03:08:02lostlogicone block is targetted at 32k which is about 1/5s at 44100hz according to my calculations
03:08:29Mikachuie, i am at 0:37 and seek to 1:53, but the progress bar and number briefly go back to 0:37 before going to 1:53 again
03:08:50amiconnMikachu: This is an old bug...
03:08:52lostlogicMikachu: yah, that can be tweaked in the wps code probably
03:08:55amiconn(on swcodec)
03:09:05sharpetimers still don't like me
03:09:08Mikachui haven't actually seeked around like a madman before the rework :)
03:09:22Mikachubut sometimes it doesn't happen
03:09:23gunpowdashould be a simple modification to the dictionary plugin to get it not to exit after each look-up
03:09:28amiconnDoesn't happen on hwcodec
03:09:44lostlogicMikachu: yeah, it's a matter of when the codec actually seeks and decodes a new block relative to when the WPS updates
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03:10:09lostlogichmm, might be hackable in the playback code as well, post it under a new heading of minor bugs in swcodec that want fixing on my wiki page ;)
03:10:58amiconnVoice & playback in hwcodec will cause similar problems with pause once we introduce the pcm codec...
03:11:30lostlogicherz42_: still there? there were no messages between the check new track and the clear tracks messages?
03:11:31amiconnToday, we simply pause the MAS when pausing (and have no voice)
03:11:51herz42_still here
03:11:54lostlogicherz42_: there should have been Starting fill or similar at least and probably a few others in between.
03:12:17lostlogicamiconn: so both hwcodec and swcodec currently have no voice when paused currently?
03:12:21amiconnIf we want voice during pause (during playback is impossible anyway), we need to let the MAS run empty
03:12:22Mikachuhow come insert shuffled is slow, but reshuffle playlist is fast? does it sort before it shuffles?
03:12:36herz42_lostlogic: no, exactly those two repeat three times
03:12:45amiconn..and in case of pcm playback, switch codecs (sic!)
03:12:47lostlogicthat is way beyond effed up.
03:12:57lostlogicamiconn: oh gee fun!
03:13:13amiconnYeah, i2c download...
03:13:21Mikachuwhat do you think about moving volume changing on ipods on the wheel from main wps into the quickscreen?
03:13:46Mikachuwould make preglow happy :)
03:14:08lostlogicwhat I really want is the quick screen exit to not flush all of my buffered tracks.
03:14:55herz42_lostlogic: I agree. It's probably running wild, so the messages might not be too meaningfull at that point. I'll try to catch some earlier messages.
03:15:21lostlogichmm... a Q_AUDIO_TRACK_CHANGED interspersed with new track calls that _think_ they are on teh buffer could cause that.
03:15:40lostlogicyes, that's what it is
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03:16:37lostlogicthe codec thread is calling that it needs a new track, so checking, the track check thinks it is on buffer, so returns with no other messages, request next track posts the track changed event, and returns to the codec, but it is actually off buffer, so it immediately calls for anotehr track chagne.
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03:16:55lostlogichmmmmmmmmmm how does it get to this state though, that is now the hard question
03:18:54lostlogichmmm... I remember thinking that I might need some special handling for early in playback before prev_ti and cur_ti will be set correctly, I wonder if this relates to that, it well could.
03:19:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:22:14Mikachuheh, nice, i managed to draw the progress bar in the quickscreen
03:22:21Mikachutwo points for copying code without reading it
03:22:43Mikachuah, that's better
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03:28:28herz42_lostlogic: now I have another log that looks slightly different. "audio_skip", "Check new track buffer", "Clearing tracks:1/1, 0" are again in sequence (only once) and then the partially buf messages and everything again... and I have the beginning of the log, when I press next and things go wild. Do you think that could help?
03:29:09Mikachulostlogic: if i time it correctly, i can start seeking at the same time playback resumes from the last seek, so i'm seeking while playing
03:29:31Mikachulostlogic: so i was thinking, is there really a reason to stop playback while moving the seek bar?
03:29:47Mikachulostlogic: does it overload the cpu?
03:30:29herz42_lostlogic: after the Request new track/skip next, there is one sequence with "audio_skip", "Check new track buffer", "New track loaded", "crossfade rejected", then it continues as written above
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03:33:49lostlogicherz: did you get a dump of the log, or just on screen?
03:34:20lostlogicoh, he left
03:34:39lostlogicMikachu: there is no reason other than it seems weird to users to keep hearing the audio at the old position while they seek to a new one
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03:35:41sharpei kind of have a decent screen output
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03:39:48lostlogicmust remember that rockbox doesn't draw enough from USB to power the player fully with backlight on.
03:40:28Mikachuwould be nice if you could find the bit to set for that
03:40:29Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Hahaha. Silly 5G owner. :-P
03:40:49lostlogicyes, yes it would.
03:42:12Mikachumaybe there should be a #ifndef around the Disk settings menu, not much to spin down
03:42:41lostlogicc'monon, spsin dow yurflah...
03:42:48lostlogicuhh, c'mon, spin down your flash.
03:42:54lostlogicsynergy and I got in a fight just there.
03:43:01Mikachuit was funnier when you were drunk
03:44:06sharpeheh, the frame rate is like, 5fps
03:44:44sharpeand it's like, blah.
03:46:13lostlogicMikachu: track changes should be synched up between gui and sound now in CVS.
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03:46:20Mikachuokay, will test
03:46:53Mikachuthere's a nice side effect to having volume in the quickscreen... i can change it from anywhere in the menu system
03:47:09Mikachuor rather, file tree
03:47:11Mikachunot menu
03:47:38Mikachui guess pressing play wasn't so hard either
03:47:47Paul_The_NerdMikachu: The problem being that most targets don't have a good way of changing the volume in the quickscreen, since one of their "Volume" buttons is "Down"
03:48:00Mikachuyeah, i have ifdef ipod4g
03:49:19lostlogicshoot, what was I going to fix next?
03:49:44Mikachuyour memory doesn't keep scrollback?
03:49:52lostlogic:( no, does yours?>
03:50:02lostlogicoh, I remember
03:50:13lostlogica performance issue with cur_ti vs. tracks[track_ridx]
03:51:37Mikachuhrm, looks like the wps accessed random data there for a split second
03:52:03Mikachuthe directory tag displayed some gibberish just when i switched track
03:52:35Mikachuhrm, you messed something up now it hink
03:53:14maeckHey guys. I was just thinking earlier... If we can fade the backlight in the Ipod 5g, why cant we put the backlight at half the power all the time. Saves power I guess
03:53:36Mikachunow when it reaches near the end, it seeks directly to 0:00 without playing the end, and it doesn't even go to the next track
03:53:52Mikachulostlogic: +hilight
03:54:56Mikachuhm, didn't happen now
03:55:15Mikachumaybe seeked too near the end
03:55:20Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: If I understand correctly, the fading is accomplished by using a method which requires boosting the CPU, so a dimmer backlight would actually draw *more* power.
03:55:55Mikachuit's not required, but it would flicker when changing speeds
03:56:10maeckyeah that is different than say changing voltage...
03:56:15Mikachulostlogic: yeah, seeking to not too near the end and waiting makes it happen
03:56:47lostlogicMikachu: ahaha, I just created a nice one: seek to near the end, then seek to clsoer to the end causes the next track to seek to that position :)
03:57:23Mikachulook at it from the bright side, you don't have to remember what the other thing was yet
03:58:06lostlogichaha, I already did that thing :)
03:58:31lostlogicand this one is a rather complex issue of pcmbuf vs. gui vs. playback sync.
03:58:40lostlogicI wonder if the old engine (pre 1.217) did this.
03:58:53Mikachuwell, not listening to the same track over and over would be nice
03:59:09lostlogicMikachu: well then don't seek to near the end like that :-P
03:59:16Mikachuit happens if i just wait too
03:59:26Mikachubut if i seek to too near, it doesn't trigger
03:59:29lostlogicwell that doesn't happen to me...
04:00:24Mikachuabrepeat looks like it's still working
04:01:16sharpeanyone have an idea on how i could implement a better 'keyboard-like' thing?
04:01:35Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: Simply use the morse-code input. :-P
04:02:58maeckwith the scroll wheel you could do something that 'may' be quicker.
04:03:16sharpei'm currently using the scroll wheel right now...
04:03:26maeckremember the old arcade games where you would go left/right through the alpahbet?
04:03:35sharpethat's what i'm doing right now
04:03:51Mikachulostlogic: setting repeat off seems to make it not happen, try setting it to Shuffle, that's what i head
04:03:52maeckone line or multiple?
04:03:55Mikachulostlogic: had
04:03:58sharpeeh, one
04:04:02lostlogicMikachu: I always have repeat shuffle on
04:04:12lostlogicMikachu: are you at the end of the shuffled playlist perhaps?
04:04:26Mikachuno, at 10 of 57
04:04:37Mikachuhappens with different songs too
04:04:43lostlogicMikachu: hates you.
04:05:25Mikachumaybe it will fix itself!
04:05:26maecklostlogic.... I did some prototyping on a graphical menu.
04:06:18Mikachuthis is sure to impress you, i got a scratch on the select button
04:06:28maeckscrolling through a bunch of items seems to work. However, 26+ glyphs seems like a lot of scrolling... or am I wrong?
04:07:10sharpeit is
04:07:26sharpeactually, it's more like 64 symbols
04:08:48sharpei just can't think of a better input system
04:08:56sharpeor a way to speed up the current one
04:08:58maeckbut you would probably be within a-z most of the time
04:09:06maeckauto capitalize
04:09:46sharpenot case sensitive, only capitals
04:09:56maecksharpe. do you have aipod 5g?
04:10:09lostlogicMikachu: scratch on the select button?
04:10:23Mikachulostlogic: yes
04:10:42Mikachuwell, the select button has a scratch on it, sort of wide too
04:11:15maeckcan I shoot off a proof of concept to you? it is a plugin (rock)...
04:11:49lostlogicmaeck: graphical menu for who what, I'm sure I should remember something about this, but I don't.
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04:12:04maeckno you should not remember
04:12:20lostlogicmaeck: ah, well then good, I don't.
04:12:50maeckbeen playing around with coding my first plugin. Decided to do something nice that 'could' replace the menu (playlists, plugins, info etc).
04:14:16maeckhas rotating icons as a menu. works good with a scroll wheel. Kind of silly if you have no wheel
04:14:16maecklet me see if I can post is somethere
04:14:40maeck> it somewhere
04:16:05sharpeuh... what cvs build did you build it from ? :)
04:17:34sharpesince i've just been working with an oldish build for the time being
04:17:41maeckI'll send you the rock if you want
04:17:50maeckwant simulator or ipod (arm)
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04:21:28Angel_of_Deathhey all
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04:22:41maeckon its way
04:23:09maeckaaagfxmenu (plugin)
04:23:38Mikachuso you figured out the trick to not have to scroll when testing too :)
04:23:47Angel_of_DeathPaul_The_Nerd, would u know anything about changing the sounds played while in doom?
04:24:15sharpeheh, lets hope it works with my current build...
04:24:38maeckI figured out that there are two key events. The first happens once, then there is a different event for the repeat... took a while (sigh)
04:24:41Paul_The_NerdAngel_of_Death: I think the current theory is that they're at the wrong sample rate.
04:25:05sharpemaeck: you want me to tell you what i think about it?
04:25:12maeckthe images are pre-scaled... that is why the file is big
04:26:00Angel_of_DeathPaul_The_Nerd, k, can i fix that?
04:26:05maeckit is sweet, when you click left/right it will show how it would work on a non scroll device
04:26:07Angel_of_DeathPaul_The_Nerd, i have no idea what that means :P
04:26:24Paul_The_NerdAngel_of_Death: It's something that needs to be fixed in the way the code handles the sound effects, so probably not something you'd be up to. ;-)
04:26:30sharpeheh, that's cool.
04:26:37Angel_of_Deathgood guess
04:27:27maeckyou could do the same with a bunch of glyphs... just the problem would be the # of glyphs... plus images wont work because of the different character sets...
04:27:46sharpeyou know what it is i'm working on right? :)
04:27:57maeckthe keyboard?
04:28:03sharpewhat it's a part of
04:28:45sharpec64 emulator...
04:29:20maeckNever had one... had a spectrum and BBC model B
04:29:44sharpebut it's an emulator, for the most part.
04:29:45scottderC=64 4 Life!
04:30:26sharpetis possible to enter and run programs in it right now...
04:30:34sharpejust not load them
04:30:52sharpeand the only graphical mode supported is the standard text mode
04:31:17sharpeand i definitely need something to do
04:31:29sharpebecause tonight is really weird.
04:31:39maeckNext thing is ti hack this thing into the menu. It wont work for all menus (file browsers). But would work nice on the first menu of TagDB and the 'bookmark, sound setting etc.' menu (how is that thing called anyways?
04:32:32maeckOh, and I need some talent to think of icons (and draw them naturally)
04:32:46sharpei doubt i could do that.
04:33:33sharpeand apps/settings_menu.h
04:33:44maeckSo, where do I leave the code for this plugin... It is draft, doesnt do anything yet. But keeping the code to myself is not really helping either
04:33:59sharpeeh, i've my emulator to myself
04:34:09maeckyeah, I found the code allright for the menus... just need to hack. But not tonight...
04:34:30Mikachumaeck: put it in the tracker
04:34:41sharpepatch trackah!
04:35:03Mikachuthat's where all the cool stuff happens
04:35:17maeckOh, I thought the cool stuff happened here...
04:35:23sharpeyeah, it's where my plugin idea got shot down...
04:35:25Mikachuno this is only for boring stuff
04:35:48sharpeer, previous plugin.
04:35:49maecklike, how do I get Doom working on my stock Ipod?
04:36:00maeckwhat plugin was that?
04:36:09sharpeeh, packaged wps plugin.
04:36:39sharpeshould just put the wads in /games/doom , and you should be ready to go... but, you mean 'stock' as in...?
04:36:42Paul_The_NerdIt got shot down?
04:36:45maeckpeople hated it? I know you were working on it. If you would ask me... the whole WPS thing should evolve into something new...
04:36:58sharpewell, not really shot down.
04:37:04maecksomething that covers menus and (multiple)play screens
04:37:15sharpejust, no good came out of it.
04:37:20sharpeer, you know
04:38:26Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: That would be where "themes" are going.
04:38:37Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: A WPS and a theme are two different concepts in the end
04:38:51sharpea theme can emcompass a single wps...
04:39:07maeckyeah. I know. What I tried to explain is. just a themable WPS is one thing.
04:39:35 Quit Daishi ("Client exiting...")
04:39:58maeckA themable package should cover menu(s) and play screen.
04:40:08Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: And eventually they will.
04:40:18maeckAnd multiple play screens as a condition to switch between screen with album art and one without
04:40:35Paul_The_NerdI think multiple play screens is not a good idea.
04:40:52Paul_The_NerdThat's quite a bit of wasted buffer space, when people can simply design a WPS that degrades gracefully if album art isn't present.
04:40:56goffa_is m4a basically the same as aac? and does rockbox handle these files?
04:41:00maeckwell, you would not know... it is like the original ipod fw.
04:41:13Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: Would not know what?
04:41:34maeckfirst you have the play screen, then it takes you to a screen where you can scroll though the song, then it shows a blown up album art
04:41:37Paul_The_Nerdgoffa_: M4A is usually the extension for an AAC in a specific container format.
04:41:59Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: That doesn't exactly answer my question of what you wouldn't know...
04:42:26maeckMust have been a line of though of an earlier answer...
04:42:31maeckor question
04:42:43Paul_The_NerdI'm confused. What wouldn't you know?
04:42:53maecklet it go
04:43:02MikachuPaul_The_Nerd: he was saying you wouldn't know
04:43:09Paul_The_NerdClearly I don't know.
04:43:14scottderI was talking with linuxstb earlier AAC files lock my Nano right now
04:43:16Mikachuthere you have it then
04:43:20maeckHey I am lost too
04:43:43Mikachuapparently you wouldn't know how the apple os has different playscreens that you switch with the select button
04:43:49Paul_The_Nerdscottder: Many AACs do not work yet, as the codec frankly sucks at the moment.
04:43:59Paul_The_NerdMikachu: Well, I did know that. I used it briefly.
04:44:29sharpewell, i'm going.
04:44:32sharpebye everyone
04:44:44maeckThat is what I mean with different WPS-es. Not that I can switch betwen a blue and a green screen during a song...
04:44:47Mikachumaeck: rockbox lets you seek and change volume from the same screen, isn't that quite a feat?
04:45:32maeckthat is fantastic!
04:45:33maeckI know... It is late. It is not something to worry about... just a line of thought
04:45:33goffa_Mikachu: every player i've had ha let me do that to be honest
04:45:34Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: Well, only one of those is an WPS... "WPS" does stand for While Playing Screen, and an album-art only view would be "Album Art Display" which could probably even be done in the context menu as an option, so that you can also do it even when music isn't playing, or the WPS doesn't support album art.
04:45:35scottderPaul_The_Nerd: Ahhh I didn't know, it worked fine before...
04:45:45goffa_only had a karma and an x5 though
04:46:05maeckPaul_the_nerd... and the Menu one will be WIM
04:46:18Mikachuif someone threw together a bmp viewer you could just go to the dir and look at the .bmp
04:46:24Galoisis the seeking code fixed??
04:46:35Paul_The_Nerdscottder: Well, it could be something new agitating the issues. The codec itself is marginal at best, and isn't "supported" yet, as it has a lot of work it needs. I'm kinda surprised it works less, as I don't think changes have been made to it, but its mediocrity could've been agitated by recent playback engine changes or something
04:46:39Mikachubut it is probably better since last time you tried
04:46:58Paul_The_Nerdmaeck: Well, the menu one would just be "Album Art Display". You can do the context menu both in WPS and in filetree.
04:47:45maeckLets design this puppy one day
04:48:37Paul_The_NerdWell, it seems like the easiest solution would just be to make the image viewer support BMP, as right now album art is only in external files anyway, so you could just browse to the file.
04:49:34maeckokay, need to go. I'll drop the plugin in the patches area tomorrow... battery is low...
04:51:13maeckso a patch is simply a diff to the current CVS?
04:52:12Mikachupreferably with -pud options given
04:52:26Mikachuor at least -u
04:52:49Paul_The_NerdWhat do p and d do for it?
04:53:11Mikachuone puts the containing C function on the @@ line, and the other tries to find smaller changes
04:53:21Mikachui forget which is which
04:53:39Mikachuthe name of the function that is
04:53:55Paul_The_NerdI'd have been surprised if it put the whole function. :-P
04:54:16Mikachunever hurts to be clear!
04:54:24Paul_The_NerdIndeed it doesn't.
04:54:28Paul_The_NerdI've learned that lesson quite well
04:56:56 Join gursikh [0] (
04:57:08Mikachulostlogic: isn't foo[bar].baz faster than raz->baz?
04:57:34 Join Farpnut [0] (
04:58:02 Quit maeck ("Chatzilla 0.9.65 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20060202]")
04:59:48lostlogicMikachu: depends on things.
05:00:10lostlogicMikachu: in this case track_ridx is a volatile int
05:00:40Mikachuah okay
05:00:41lostlogicso it will _always_ be loaded from dram, then used a modifier for another thing that is either in DRAM or a register, to do another DRAM access
05:01:06lostlogiccur_ti is just a normal pointer, so it can be cached in a register and used as an address to offset with no penalty
05:01:26 Join Rob2222 [0] (
05:01:29lostlogica better question may be why are some of the volatiles in here volatile?
05:01:47lostlogicon a non-preemptive system, volatile doesn't make sense, but I didn't write the original code and I haven't done those audits yet.
05:02:03Mikachui only know volatile is pretty good on memory mapped hardware ports
05:02:10Mikachubut that's not one of those
05:02:19lostlogicvolatile is critical on a mem-mapped port
05:02:23lostlogicotherwise shit gets effed up
05:02:58Mikachui noticed that when i did some programming for gba, everything there is a memory mapped port
05:03:37Mikachuthat was quite some time ago
05:04:12lostlogicI definitely want to go through this code removing some variables and reducing scope on some others... but that is a task for another day.
05:04:31lostlogicand I should probably figure out exactly why the remaining breakages are breaking at some point too
05:04:37*Mikachu starts humming on die another day
05:05:36lostlogicI can skip tracks all day w/o breakage, so I'm slowly getting less inclined to fix bugs :-P
05:06:08lostlogicplus, my boss is mad at me because I have 4 criticals at the paying job that I didn't fix today... (I fixed one)
05:06:22Mikachurockbox is addictive
05:06:41Mikachumaybe you should ask bagder to restrict your cvs access during working hours
05:07:26lostlogichaha :)
05:07:38lostlogicdamn, just after I say that, I cause one of the bugs myself...
05:07:53lostlogichmm... track changes initiated between seek start and seek complete are _not_ safe right now.
05:13:10 Part nave7693
05:15:42 Quit Farpenoodle (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:16:48 Quit Rob2222_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:19:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:24:39JdGordonany aussies around?
05:25:29Paul_The_NerdI used to be friends with several. Is that close enough?
05:25:51JdGordonnot really.. very important matters that need discussion..
05:34:11 Quit TCK ("well, if you say so.")
05:37:04ArrogantKangaroo uprising again
05:37:12lostlogicI think I have at least identified the broad description of the cause of several remaining bugs, nowhere near identifying the full code path yet though.
05:37:49 Quit Arrogant ("Leaving")
05:48:21*Paul_The_Nerd hates reading messages like "I still haven't figured out how to play music in Rockbox yet..."
05:49:34Paul_The_NerdSomehow the word "still" implies to me that they actually put effort into it at some point, yet the "haven't figured out how to play music" leads me to wonder what effort it could've been.
05:52:36zePaul_The_Nerd: thats an odd interpretation of "still"
05:53:03zePaul_The_Nerd: ya know, it could very well (as you imply) be more like "i still haven't tried yet"
05:53:28Paul_The_NerdI dunno. "haven't figured out" implies to me thought has gone into it at least.
05:53:45zeah yeah that part does
05:54:01zeif they haven't put any effort into it, it'd be more "i still haven't bothered to figure out"
05:54:55 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
05:54:56Paul_The_NerdBut then considering the speed that people responded when Doom broke compared to when Playback broke, and how quickly there were responses when someone offered a bootloader that defaulted to Apple's OS, people clearly don't see Rockbox as a music player for Ipods
05:55:21Angel_of_Deathi do.
05:55:37GargamaleI do
05:55:38Angel_of_Death:) lol
05:55:49GargamaleCept scrolling is slow, but Ill live
05:56:03lostlogicipods come with a factory firmware?
05:56:08lostlogicdamn, wish I'd known sooner :-P
05:56:09Paul_The_NerdYeah. Oddly enough in the poll a LOT more voted "Yes, I use it for music" but in terms of who shouts when something breaks, it's the gamers.
05:56:17Angel_of_DeathGargamale, u can change how fast u scroll
05:56:30GargamaleScroll speed is at 25
05:56:33GargamaleIts slow
05:56:51Angel_of_Deathseems fine for me
05:56:59Angel_of_Deathwhat kind of iPod do u have?
05:57:17Paul_The_NerdAngel_of_Death: It's definitely slower than the apple firmware on all of 'em.
05:57:44lostlogicGargamale: scroll speed has nothing to od with scroll wheel
05:57:51lostlogicit has t4o do with text scrolling on the screen
05:57:53Angel_of_DeathPaul_The_Nerd, yes because on the apple firmware if u keep ur finger at a steedy speed it rapidly increases the speed at which it scrolls
05:57:57Gargamale5g video
05:58:09Gargamalethen how do i speed that up
05:58:20lostlogicAngel_of_Death: I implemented something like taht, but for now we are actually limitted by how fast the player can process the scroll events
05:58:23GargamaleYa it has acceleration
05:58:24lostlogicGargamale: tehre isn't a way yet
05:58:29Angel_of_Deathi liked the feature on apple
05:58:40Angel_of_Deathone of the few
05:58:49lostlogicwe need to optimize and overall make-less-sucky the list scrolling routines
05:58:57Angel_of_Deathmy brother thinks the only good inovation that apple made on there firmware was the *music quiz* game lol
05:59:16Gargamalethat thing is gay
05:59:25lostlogicanother way would be to make the CPU boost when the button driver detects a lag, but that's not happening yet.
05:59:53Angel_of_Deathi think the first thing i would change about RB tho is something apple had
06:00:04warthawgPaul_The_Nerd, I definitely see rockbox as a music player for the ipod. i've bought 4 new cds to rip because of it.
06:00:07Angel_of_Deathtracks are listed in order of there number
06:00:15Angel_of_Deathbut u didnt need the track# in the title
06:00:23Gargamalehell yes Angel_of_Death
06:00:38Angel_of_Deaththe whole aphabetical does kinda anoy me sometimes
06:00:50Paul_The_Nerdwarthawg: Oh, I stopped using the Apple firmware about 10 minutes after I was told Rockbox on Ipod finally had sound. :)
06:00:52Angel_of_Deathbut im *hoping* that will be fixed sometime
06:01:14Angel_of_Deaththe night i found out about rockbox i put apple aside
06:01:40lostlogicAngel_of_Death: can probably get that wiht the tag cache, eh?
06:01:58Angel_of_Deathyou tell me.
06:02:14lostlogicnever used tag cache myself
06:02:23lostlogicI bet there's a wiki page about it
06:02:29 Quit warthawg ("my work here is done")
06:02:47Angel_of_Deathfind that WIKI! lol
06:02:47GargamaleI have Tag Cache on and it doesnt sort by tack no
06:02:54Gargamaletrack no from id3
06:03:06Angel_of_Deathoh there was another thing i liked about apple
06:03:06lostlogicwell someoen should fix that.
06:03:30Angel_of_Deathi liked when u went into artist, u could choose which album, or ALL
06:03:37Angel_of_Deathnow i dont have an all
06:03:47Angel_of_Deathits just which album, or they are all in there together
06:03:59Angel_of_Deathhmm i didnt say that well
06:04:19Angel_of_Deatheither the music for my artist is seperated by albums, or i have it all in one folder, not both like apple had
06:04:25Angel_of_Deathso i think that was good to
06:04:42lostlogicsomeone should fix that too
06:04:52lostlogicie you, or slasheri if you can convince him to
06:04:54Angel_of_Deathyeah this *someone* has got some work to do
06:05:30Angel_of_Deathslasheri could do shit like that?
06:05:44 Quit gursikh ()
06:05:47lostlogicSlasheri wrote tag cache
06:06:09Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: The sort by track # WAS fixed, and then somehow became unfixed.
06:06:16Angel_of_Deathwell i definatly think it would be tight if things were sorted by there ID3 tags, rather then there folders
06:06:52Paul_The_NerdAngel_of_Death: Tagcache IS things sorted by ID tags. Try it out, then complain about how it works, but complain ye not 'til you have used it. :-P
06:06:58Angel_of_Deathis there a date for RB to be *released* for 5g iPod, or is it so far from being finished no1 has an idea
06:07:12Paul_The_NerdAngel_of_Death: Approximately "November" at the moment, but it's not set in stone.
06:07:20lostlogicg'night all.
06:07:28Angel_of_Deathso basically next january?
06:07:42Paul_The_NerdG'night Lostlogic
06:07:57Angel_of_DeathPaul_The_Nerd, how would i sort things by tagcache, just turn it on?
06:08:10Paul_The_NerdAngel_of_Death: Well, there will be a release in November I'd imagine. But it may be decided that there's too much work left on iPods yet.
06:08:21Paul_The_NerdAngel_of_Death: Read the tagcache wiki page. Full instructions there.
06:09:52 Join sayocean [0] (
06:09:57sayoceangday sirs
06:09:59sayoceanand ladys
06:10:04Angel_of_Deathsayocean, hey
06:10:13sayoceanwhats goin on?
06:10:43Angel_of_Deathnot much
06:10:49Angel_of_Deathtalkin bout RB
06:11:21sayoceandid u get ipl on ur ipod succesffully?
06:11:23Angel_of_DeathPaul_The_Nerd, No page with that title exists.
06:11:50Angel_of_Deathsayocean, didnt try
06:11:55Paul_The_NerdOh, sorry, it's TagCache, not tagcache.
06:12:42 Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:12:42 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
06:13:10Angel_of_DeathPaul_The_Nerd, that didn't help
06:13:16Angel_of_Deathyou sure theres a wiki?
06:13:39Paul_The_NerdYes, I'm quite sure
06:15:38 Quit Shadowarrior13 ("( :: NoNameScript 4.01 :: )")
06:18:18Angel_of_Deatheff that lol
06:18:48Angel_of_Deathto much change with that, and it still was in alphabetical order in the song list
06:19:02Angel_of_Deathcause i have all the artists in the right folders
06:19:08Angel_of_Deathbut, the albums are all different
06:19:20Paul_The_NerdYeah, but the directory tree will NEVER show them sorted by ID3 tag track number probably
06:19:26Angel_of_Deathand with apple since i could view all, i never deleted all the albums
06:19:43Paul_The_NerdI mean, it's not an actual directory tree if it's sorting by file contents.
06:19:54Angel_of_Deathso i just wish there was a way to short tracks by there tracknumbers
06:20:02Angel_of_Deathwithout doing something that drastic
06:20:04Paul_The_NerdThere is: Put the track numbers in the filename.
06:20:14Paul_The_NerdYou only see the filename while browsing anyway
06:20:14Angel_of_Deathyes i thought of that
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06:20:39Angel_of_Deathi could do that, i have a program which would do it with ease
06:20:52Paul_The_NerdSo why not?
06:20:53Angel_of_Deathmaybe i will
06:20:59Paul_The_Nerd's what I do.
06:21:08Angel_of_Deathcause its anoying looking at all those numbers while browsing
06:21:18Angel_of_Deathu dont think so?
06:21:28Angel_of_Deaththen again not as anoying as having it in the wrong order...
06:21:40Paul_The_NerdI don't think it's annoying at all.
06:22:20Paul_The_NerdI mean, I like to be able to identify the track number of a song without having to open the song, no matter where the song is.
06:22:23Paul_The_NerdBut that's just me
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06:34:00 Quit jdfmm (Client Quit)
06:37:40dpassen1Its late for most of the Rockbox crowd
06:38:37Paul_The_NerdOr early
06:38:50dpassen1That awkard in between area
06:38:54Paul_The_NerdIt is.
06:40:31 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
06:43:08dpassen1I'm new to C and programming, but I was wondering if someone could estimate the amount of knowledge needed to change some behavior in Rockbox
06:43:22Angel_of_DeathLIKE ALOT DUDE
06:44:11Paul_The_NerdIt really depends on the behaviour
06:44:23Paul_The_NerdA lot of stuff can be changed with very basic C knowledge.
06:44:27dpassen1Well specifically, I'd like playlists to open as virtual directories
06:44:40 Join speacial_ed [0] (
06:45:00Paul_The_NerdSo you'd basically like to see the "View Playlist" contents when you click on a playlist, rather than starting playback?
06:45:40dpassen1Right, if you would long click you could just play the playlist, but id like to view playlist so i could pick a certain song in the playlist to start with
06:45:47dpassen1and still load the playlist
06:47:05dpassen1I hope I'm explaining myself well
06:47:10Paul_The_NerdOh, I understand
06:47:34Angel_of_Deathi agree
06:47:55dpassen1Would this be deep in the core functionality?
06:47:55Angel_of_Deathoccasionaly ide like to look in my playlist before listening to them
06:47:59Angel_of_Deathi want to see whats in there
06:48:00Paul_The_NerdI'd guess that's a moderate amount of C knowledge. You'd have to change the behaviour to not start playback on launching a playlist, and give it a different action instead. Seeing as what you want to do is all already there, the difficult part is just reading and understanding how the rockbox code does what it already does, so that you can change it, rather than the actual changing.
06:48:05Paul_The_NerdAt least that's my guess about the whole thing.
06:48:17dpassen1Cool, I'll take a look at the source.
06:48:33dpassen1I'd like to get involved with development, hopefully.
06:49:20Paul_The_NerdI thought that for a while, but found my niche elsewhere.
06:49:29dpassen1And that would be?
06:50:19Paul_The_NerdI spend an awful lot of time trying to help people in the forums, and trying to get clearer ideas of the problems they're having to relay them to people in here.
06:50:23*Paul_The_Nerd is also known as Llorean
06:55:55Angel_of_DeathPaul_The_Nerd, ok track numbers are all in the files now
06:55:58Angel_of_Deaththat wasnt so bad
06:56:41 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:57:11speacial_eddid the one doom work?
06:57:27Angel_of_Deathspeacial_ed, yes
06:57:31Angel_of_Deathmore or less
06:57:34Angel_of_Deathmore more than less
06:57:44speacial_edexplain yourself
06:58:01Angel_of_Deathok umm
06:58:20Angel_of_Deaththinking here
06:58:22speacial_edwell yeah
06:58:23speacial_edi get it
06:58:27Angel_of_Deathu can delete freedoom
06:58:31Angel_of_Deathi got doom2
06:58:41speacial_edi never had freedoom
06:58:42Angel_of_Deaththen i got the full version of doom1
06:58:46Angel_of_Deathits called ultimate doom
06:58:56Angel_of_Deathand it works to play, but not as a base for other games
06:59:15speacial_edwhy would you use it as a base
06:59:18Angel_of_Deathso u keep the shareware version to play other games but use ultimate doom just to play it, doom1
06:59:22speacial_edi thought doom 2 was the base for most of em
06:59:26Angel_of_Deathit is
06:59:33Angel_of_Deathbut there a few that require doom1
06:59:43speacial_edthe only one i saw was FF3
06:59:46speacial_edor something like that
06:59:49speacial_edthat doesnt interest me
06:59:56Angel_of_Deathyeah all mine are doom2 also
07:00:02speacial_edwell no worries then
07:00:13Angel_of_Deathi would keep the doom1 shareware anyways
07:00:20speacial_edyeah i will
07:00:22speacial_edjust in case
07:00:24Angel_of_Deathwhat i did
07:00:55Angel_of_Deathso u got doom1, used for base, doom ultimate, used for doom1, and doom2 - replacing freedoom and being used as a base and as doom2 game
07:01:30speacial_edwaiiiiiiit doom ultimate is doom1 and 2?
07:01:51Angel_of_Deathultimate doom is just doom1
07:01:57Angel_of_Deathfull version
07:02:02Angel_of_Deathbut u cant use as a base
07:02:04Paul_The_NerdDoom shareware shouldn't work with ANY expansions
07:02:05Angel_of_Deathit wont let u
07:02:08Paul_The_NerdIt should be completely unnecessary.
07:02:14speacial_edalrighty then
07:02:19Paul_The_NerdAnd Ultimate Doom *should* work as a base if you name it doomu.wad
07:02:32speacial_edand paul saves the day again
07:02:37Angel_of_Deathno when u try it says *not a registered version*
07:02:39speacial_edi dont tihnk a day has gone by he hasnt saved
07:02:39Angel_of_Deathor something
07:03:02Paul_The_NerdAngel_of_Death: Was it named doomu.wad, doom.wad, or doom1.wad at the time?
07:03:27Angel_of_Deathgood question
07:03:29Angel_of_Deathlemme check
07:03:55Paul_The_NerdI would suggest being sure that it's named doomu.wad and that doom1.wad is not present.
07:04:17Paul_The_Nerdspeaciel_ed: Ultimate Doom has 4 episodes instead of 3.
07:04:30Angel_of_Deathdoom ultimate is named doom.wad
07:04:42speacial_edshareware doom wont let me go to any other episode other than 1
07:04:59Angel_of_Deathyes i tried on D.U and u can play all 4
07:05:04Angel_of_Deathso yippie
07:05:13speacial_eddamn my crappy typing...
07:05:16Paul_The_NerdAngel_of_Death: You should rename it to doomu.wad
07:05:37speacial_edpaul you probably get this alot and turn people down.... but... will you marry me?
07:06:20Paul_The_NerdI've only got that once before, and she was a lot prettier than you. :-P
07:06:28speacial_edaw but cmon
07:06:37speacial_edi make a real mean milk shake
07:07:12Angel_of_Deathnope paul didnt work
07:07:15Angel_of_Deathmissing many patches
07:07:45Paul_The_NerdAre you using it with add-ons that require Doom2, or add-ons intended for use with Doom 1?
07:07:46Angel_of_Deathso anyways
07:07:53Angel_of_Deathdoom1 addons
07:08:20Paul_The_NerdOdd. The only reason doomu wouldn't work with doom 1 addons is because our Doom plugin doesn't handle them right.
07:09:02Paul_The_NerdThat qualifies as a bug if they're definitely intended for use with Doom and not Doom 2. Ultimate Doom contains all the resources of Doom, plus the few extra ones for the additional episode.
07:09:06Angel_of_Deathspeacial_ed, u want em?
07:09:14speacial_edindeed i do
07:09:37Angel_of_Deathgimme a few minutes
07:10:22speacial_edtheres a doom collectors edition on my brothers computer but when i looked at it it was just an .iso
07:10:58 Quit Gargamale (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:11:04Paul_The_NerdWell that's just an image of the CD then. If you get something that can mount the ISO, it would have wads for Ultimate Doom, Doom 2, and Final Doom.
07:11:20speacial_edim pretty sure hes got daemon
07:11:28Paul_The_NerdThat'd work.
07:11:54speacial_edits not working again man
07:12:00speacial_edthat angers me
07:12:11speacial_edstatus: accepting send
07:12:18 Join Gargamale [0] (
07:12:37speacial_edany other way to do this?
07:12:56speacial_edwhich is...?
07:13:27speacial_edi bet i know why it wont work here though... does this use FTP?
07:13:35speacial_edmy router blocks FTP i dont know why
07:13:38Angel_of_Deathjust wait a few minutes
07:13:42speacial_edwill do
07:13:59speacial_edso... paul... i never heard your answer
07:14:08Paul_The_NerdWhich question?
07:14:15speacial_edmarry me?
07:14:20Angel_of_Deathoh god
07:14:24Angel_of_Deathur worrying me now
07:14:25Paul_The_NerdAs I said, no thanks.
07:14:42Angel_of_Deathspeacial_ed, uploading em should take about 10 minutes
07:14:42Paul_The_NerdI have at least three very attractive girls after me. I think that's enough for now.
07:15:01speacial_edit never hurts to have that guy though
07:15:01Angel_of_Deathus guys are very strict
07:15:11Angel_of_Deathonly 1 hole is accepted and u got the wrong one :P
07:15:29speacial_edyou know why i dont get about gay relationships?
07:15:36speacial_edwheres the vagina?
07:15:48Angel_of_Deathin the back
07:15:50speacial_edi mean you gotta have a vagina!
07:16:30 Quit gtkspert (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:16:35Angel_of_Deathhmmm paul testing this now.... those games i thought were doom1 work with doom2 as a base
07:16:39Angel_of_Deathso maybe i was wrong...
07:16:47Angel_of_Deathany1 got a link for a doom1 addon?
07:16:52speacial_edone sec
07:16:54Angel_of_Deathi could of swore they were doom1
07:16:54speacial_edill get ya one
07:17:01Angel_of_Deathk ed
07:17:15Angel_of_DeathPaul_The_Nerd, if it was a doom1 addon could u use doom2 as a base?
07:17:18Angel_of_Deathno right?
07:18:03Paul_The_NerdAngel_of_Death: You shouldn't be able to, no.
07:18:53Angel_of_Deaththats doom1?
07:18:56Angel_of_Deathur sure?
07:18:57speacial_edi really got doom in the first place to just show off and be like "hehe your ipod cant do this"
07:19:03speacial_edbut now i cant stop
07:19:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:20:16speacial_edill be sitting in the car and just blastin them damnable cyber demons
07:20:23speacial_edwhile driving...
07:21:46speacial_edthat doom1 addon work?
07:24:22Angel_of_Deathhold on
07:24:25Angel_of_Deathwatching something lol
07:24:27Angel_of_Deathgimme 10 minutes
07:27:29Angel_of_Death7minutes untill doom is uploaded
07:29:56dpassen1Anyone wanna try and reproduce a crash I have?
07:30:16speacial_ednothin else to do
07:30:31dpassen1Open up a playlist in the playlist viewer
07:30:50dpassen1Then select one of the tracks
07:31:15dpassen1Instead of playing that track, it returns (for me, at least) to the folder containing that playlist
07:31:33speacial_edplays it for me
07:31:37dpassen1Then hit play to return to the wps and resume playback
07:32:02speacial_edget the bleeding edge
07:32:03dpassen1My playlist must be messed up
07:32:10speacial_edsee if that fixes it
07:32:56speacial_edum.. what?
07:33:28Angel_of_Deathhave u changed the name of the folder holding all ur music since u made that playlist
07:33:35speacial_edangel get that file on zupload or whatever it was?
07:33:40dpassen1Nope, the playlists work fine if i just select them to play
07:33:42Angel_of_Death2minutes left
07:33:55Angel_of_Death50 secons
07:33:56dpassen1If I follow the steps I described I get:
07:34:01speacial_edwhat are you watching?
07:34:04speacial_ed24 again?
07:34:05Angel_of_Deathspeacial_ed, zupload didnt work it pooped out half way thru
07:34:08Angel_of_Deathim using a diff site
07:34:09dpassen1Updating size on empty dir entry 32
07:34:21Angel_of_Deathno i was watching a clip from a show called 5th gear
07:35:03speacial_edthank you mucho
07:35:08Angel_of_Deaththat zip has both doom files in it
07:35:16Angel_of_Deathk i got sidetracked
07:35:21Angel_of_Deathtime to test that addon u gave me
07:35:38Angel_of_Deathoh and half life doesnt work
07:35:47Angel_of_Deathwhen u beat the first lvl it poops out
07:35:51Angel_of_Deathsays data abort or something
07:35:56Angel_of_Deathhappens to me everytime
07:36:36speacial_edyeah me too
07:36:42speacial_edi was gonna tell you that but i forgot
07:36:57speacial_edafter you grab the HEV
07:37:54Angel_of_DeathPaul_The_Nerd, good call
07:38:05Angel_of_Deathk ed, ultimate doom works as a base
07:38:34Angel_of_Deathso u can delete doom1.wad
07:38:49speacial_edi shall do this
07:38:51speacial_edthanks man
07:39:29speacial_edso i got that zip but theres another file with it... not in the zip.. its
07:39:32speacial_edno clue what that is
07:39:50Angel_of_Deathis the download finished
07:40:01Angel_of_Deaththere is 2 files usually with a zip untill it finishes
07:40:10Angel_of_Deathwell open the zip up with winrar
07:40:11speacial_edi know but it finished and is still there
07:40:23Angel_of_Deathwell open the zip
07:40:27speacial_edwinrar... pssh who uses that
07:40:29Angel_of_Deathdoes it have doomu.wad and doom2
07:40:34Angel_of_Deathummm we the smart ppl use it
07:40:38Angel_of_Deaththen ignore that other file
07:40:44speacial_edk ill just belete it
07:40:50Angel_of_Deathdont go that far
07:40:53speacial_edo noes! my computer crashed!
07:40:58Angel_of_Deathjust ignore it untill ur sure u dont need it
07:41:15speacial_eddo i need to rename doomu.wad?
07:41:20speacial_edor its good to go like that
07:41:24Angel_of_Deathits named the right thing
07:41:29Angel_of_Deathmake sure u remove doom1.wad
07:42:16Angel_of_DeathPaul_The_Nerd, where do i change the sensitivity of the clickwheel?
07:42:26Angel_of_Deathive found it before but i cant seem to now
07:43:28speacial_edid help ya out but ive plugged in for the doom
07:44:13Angel_of_Deathfound it!
07:44:29speacial_edi knew you could!
07:44:32speacial_edive always believed in you
07:44:58speacial_edwill my doom save still work with doomu.wad
07:47:36speacial_edpaul, whenever i plug in my ipod then unplug it, it seems to feel like my previous settings were gay and gets rid of them and reverts to rockbox default... any help?
07:48:55Paul_The_NerdThe settings don't get saved to the config block when you plug in the USB cable
07:49:07Paul_The_NerdTo make sure your iPod writes them to the config block, set them how you'd like, then hold Play to shut down once.
07:49:24speacial_edbut ive shut it down before ive plugged it in
07:49:46speacial_edcould it be that the battery was low? it didnt die but it was close
07:49:56Paul_The_NerdIt shouldn't be.
07:50:26Paul_The_NerdBut I would recommend going to "manage settings" and saving a full .cfg file. Every now and then a new version of rockbox forces you to reset your settings
07:50:49speacial_edrighto will do
07:50:51Paul_The_NerdBut you can always reload a .cfg to get them back. The reset is just because the format of the config block elsewhere has to change, so it has to be cleared or you get some weird behaviour
07:51:24speacial_edyour just losing me now
07:51:49Paul_The_Nerd"It's a good idea to have a saved .cfg file, because sometimes updates reset you."
07:51:57Paul_The_NerdI guess it's not so important that you know why.
07:52:22speacial_edand angel... either A. ultimate doom is for crazyass hardcore doomers, who can actaully strafe, or B. my save game got messed up because i started where i was but there was like 8 million guys
07:52:48Angel_of_Deathu choose wrong difficulty?
07:52:59speacial_edi loaded my save
07:53:31speacial_edo man
07:53:39speacial_edtheres even more than i thought
07:53:41speacial_edsome are invis
07:53:59Paul_The_NerdUltimate Doom has the exact same levels as Normal Doom. It just then also has Episode 4
07:56:05speacial_edwaiiit dude this is not where i was...
07:56:21speacial_edthat could be the problem...
07:56:28Angel_of_Deathits where i was?
07:56:29speacial_edits like the start of the level i was last on
07:56:34speacial_edand i did save itt here
07:56:43speacial_edbut its on a higher dificulty
07:56:58speacial_edwhere were you angel?
07:58:27Angel_of_Deathi dont know
07:58:31Angel_of_Deathtrying to play doom here
07:58:41speacial_edits the start of like level 3 or 4 i tihnk
07:59:36speacial_edi just went back to doom shareware and it loads where i was
07:59:42Angel_of_DeathPaul_The_Nerd, what did u say the current theory on why the sounds are *odd* on doom was?
07:59:47 Join samo21 [0] (
07:59:55Angel_of_Deaththats my wad
08:00:03Angel_of_Deathit has my save files
08:00:09Angel_of_Deathwhen u asked me if save would work
08:00:13Angel_of_Deathi didnt know u ment ur old save spots
08:00:17Paul_The_NerdAngel_of_Death: That they're at the wrong sample rate.
08:00:18samo21hey umm i'm having an issue with rockbox on my ipod, anyone willing to help?
08:00:27Paul_The_Nerdsamo21: What issue?
08:00:27speacial_edpaul helps everyone
08:00:31speacial_edKNEW IT
08:00:34speacial_edi called that
08:00:36sayoceanPaul = nice guy
08:00:41speacial_edindeed he is
08:00:41samo21i got doom working
08:00:47speacial_edits all about doom lol
08:00:51samo21on my ipod which i'm sure which is what all the ipod freaks were trying to do
08:00:55samo21well not all about doom, but, mostly :-p
08:00:59speacial_edhey but angel my save isnt to the .wad
08:01:07speacial_edits a differant file called like doomsave0.wad
08:01:08Angel_of_Deathwell i dont know then
08:01:18samo21and i loaded in a golden eye addon
08:01:22samo21and when golden eye was booting up
08:01:24samo21it just crashed
08:01:28samo21and now it's become toatlly unresponsive
08:01:31samo21and i can't reset it
08:01:33samo21at all
08:01:39samo21screen says
08:01:39Paul_The_NerdHold Menu+Select for quite a while
08:01:45samo21tried that
08:01:50Angel_of_Deathnot long enough
08:01:52Paul_The_NerdYou didn't hold it long enough
08:01:54samo21okay i'll try again then.
08:01:54Angel_of_Deaththat addon doesnt work
08:02:00Angel_of_Deathhold it untill something happens
08:02:09Paul_The_NerdOr, sometimes people hold Play+Select for some reason.
08:02:18samo21okay sorry.. umm
08:02:22samo21yeah i was holding it forever before
08:02:25samo21and i tried it just now
08:02:27samo21and it worked fine.
08:02:37speacial_edits pauls help that made it work
08:02:40speacial_edhes like an angel
08:02:45speacial_edsent from rockboxhelpheaven
08:02:49Paul_The_NerdSometimes if you wiggle your finger it forgets the Menu because it starts reading the scrolls, and doesn't go back to thinking "Menu" after
08:03:01samo21i've been prooven a n00b yet again
08:03:04samo21well, thanks.
08:03:07Paul_The_NerdNo worries
08:03:09speacial_edwe all have dont worry about it
08:03:39speacial_edi remember the first time i met paul... it was a stormy night... and i was trying to install rockbox
08:03:59speacial_edi had this error where i had bootloader.bin
08:03:59Paul_The_NerdBelieve it or not, I do more in the forums than I do here.
08:04:05Angel_of_Deaththat was lastnight right?
08:04:12speacial_edbut when i typed the line to do whatever it does
08:04:15speacial_edit said it didnt exist
08:04:22speacial_edeven though it was RIGHT THERE
08:04:31speacial_edand actaully it was like 4 or 5 days ago
08:04:33speacial_edduh angel
08:05:12speacial_edthose were good times though, back when i was "webguest96"
08:05:21speacial_edo man how i miss those times
08:05:45speacial_edim really bored if you guys cant tell...
08:06:03samo21nother question, i intalled halflife addon for doom
08:06:07samo21and i can't control it
08:06:08speacial_edi WOULD be playing doom but nooooo, my save files all bad
08:06:09Angel_of_Deathdoesnt work
08:06:09samo21won't move anywhere
08:06:16Angel_of_Deathdont bother
08:06:16speacial_eddelete it anyways samo
08:06:20speacial_edcant get past level 1
08:06:21Angel_of_Deaththat addon doesnt work after the first lvl
08:06:30samo21any good add ons i should bother with?
08:06:41speacial_edand quake2
08:06:42speacial_edi like
08:06:44Angel_of_Deathduke nukem
08:06:49speacial_edyes that one to
08:06:54speacial_edheretic isnt bad
08:07:05Paul_The_NerdI'm personally a fan of AliensTC (which is based on the movie Aliens if you couldn't guess.) It has some pretty neat stuff. Facehuggers jumping out of eggs, all the way up to a powerloader fight with the queen at the end.
08:07:21speacial_edooo, where can i get me this baby?
08:07:22samo21hm hm...
08:07:23samo21very interesting.
08:07:38Paul_The_NerdUnfortunately Fox studios pretty thoroughly went about Cease and Desisting everyone who had posted a copy of it about 8 years ago.
08:07:41samo21would everything there work?
08:08:01Paul_The_Nerdsamo21: No guarantees until you try them. Doom still has some work to do.
08:08:18speacial_edi tried a couple there most of em worked but i didnt like alot of them
08:08:25samo21i'm a n00b to doom as well as rockbox, so, forgive me
08:08:29speacial_edi am too man
08:08:33speacial_edi feel your pain
08:09:13samo21oh, i know with ipodlinux there is a way to get apple's firmware to boot default, is there such a thing for rockbox?
08:09:46speacial_edpaul_the_nerd: is it likely for the rockboy patch to be in a future build, or, since im horrible with all things rockbox including patching, should i just delete the gameboy games i have on my ipod
08:10:09Paul_The_NerdWell, the current patch doesn't really make it playable anyway
08:10:20Paul_The_NerdBut there *will* be a time where it'll be playable. I just can't guarantee it'll be "soon"
08:11:17speacial_edwell ill just keep them anyways... that way i can show them off and *pretend* they work and get more people to get rockbox
08:12:46speacial_edok angel im going to delete my shareware doom and see if itll then load my save in the ultime doom... dont see how itll help, but worth a try
08:14:26speacial_edi dont think hes here... or hes too busy with doom..
08:14:43speacial_edi dont know why its so much more fun on the ipod then it was on my computer
08:14:48speacial_edeven though its dulled down
08:15:33speacial_edman still doesnt work put me same level but more into it
08:15:56speacial_edheres the plan, beat episode one in doom shareware, beat 2,3,4 in doom ultimate
08:16:04 Join Gargamal1 [0] (
08:18:04Paul_The_Nerdsamo21: After looking through that site, a LOT of things there won't work. Notably, anything that requires a dehacked patch definitely won't.
08:19:47samo21okay thanks
08:20:09samo21umm i dunno if you saw my previous question, but, is there anyway to make apple's firmware boot by default?
08:20:20Paul_The_NerdYou can modify the bootloader.
08:20:29Paul_The_NerdThis requires some small C programming knowledge
08:20:38Paul_The_NerdOr you could just use the iPodLinux bootloader.
08:20:49samo21for rockbox?
08:20:58samo21is that horribly difficult?
08:20:58Paul_The_NerdLoader2 can load Rockbox or Linux.
08:21:15Paul_The_NerdDunno. I've never used it, so I'm not familiar with the install procedure
08:21:16samo21well i tried to install ipodlinux a couple of times
08:21:24speacial_edi did on my nano
08:21:25speacial_edbricked it
08:21:26samo21and each time my ipod flips out and makes me restore
08:21:33speacial_edstill got my warrent though :)
08:21:39samo21no no bricks
08:21:43samo21i have no warrenty
08:21:48samo21a brick=me crying for very long time
08:21:48Paul_The_NerdHow did you *brick* an iPod?
08:22:00speacial_edit wouldnt respond what so ever
08:22:07Paul_The_NerdSomething else was wrong with it then
08:22:08samo21that's pretty weird still
08:22:09 Quit Gargamale (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:22:09speacial_edand when plugged in my computer wouldnt recognize it
08:22:10samo21couldn't you let the battery die?
08:22:19speacial_edit wouldnt turn on
08:22:26Paul_The_NerdBecause bootloader installs for both Rockbox and Linux only modify a disk partition
08:22:30speacial_edand when it messed up the battery was at almost full
08:22:40Paul_The_NerdSo you can always Hard Reset and then Menu+PLay into hardware disk mode.
08:22:52speacial_edhard reset?
08:23:14speacial_edo, i tried many times
08:23:31Paul_The_NerdWhich means there's something wrong with your actual hardware outside of the area that the bootloaders affect.
08:23:43speacial_edwell then thats coo with me
08:23:51speacial_eddoesnt matter cause i got my cash back and got a 5g
08:23:54Galoisfrom a quick glance at the bootloader source code, it looks like you only have to change one line to make apple firmware the default
08:23:56speacial_edand a new cell
08:24:43samo21well i'm not much of a sourcecoade hacker
08:24:49samo21so i'd want something rather simple if possible...
08:24:58Angel_of_Deathanother bummer guys
08:25:02speacial_edwhats that?
08:25:08Angel_of_Deathdukenukem doesnt work after 1st lvl either
08:25:12Angel_of_Deathsame thing happens
08:25:14speacial_edill try
08:25:16speacial_edand replicate
08:25:38speacial_eddoes it take long to beat 1st level?
08:25:47Angel_of_Deathtook me 14minutes cause i got stuck
08:25:50Angel_of_Deathbut take u 10
08:26:01Galoissamo21: (untested!!)
08:26:14samo21how untested? lol
08:26:22Paul_The_Nerdsamo21: Well, the simplest is using the Loader2 from ipodlinux. The second simplest is that .diff there.
08:26:53Paul_The_NerdAnd that .diff looks like it'd work.
08:27:12Galoisit just reverses the logic, so that the fallthrough case is to load OF instead of to load rockbox
08:27:22samo21i'll check out loader2 and see how that goes
08:28:46samo21i'll need to compile it.. how funn
08:28:54samo21alright how does the .diff file work, and how do i install it?
08:29:09Paul_The_NerdTo use a .diff you need to be able to compile
08:29:34Galoislooks like you're stuck compiling either way
08:29:39samo21looks like
08:29:53Paul_The_NerdOr you could just suffer with the "Boots to rockbox by default"
08:30:04Paul_The_NerdThere's not exactly a compelling reason (for most people) to have Apple be the default
08:30:13samo21yeah i guess
08:30:17samo21it's not like i reset my ipod very often
08:30:26samo21and then it's not hard to boot into apple firmware
08:31:17samo21alright, i'm convinced
08:31:23samo21i'll stick with rockbox as default.
08:31:26Paul_The_NerdI'm just curious why you prefer the apple software.
08:32:19samo21well in my mind, apple firmware is for music playing, cause i use itunes and have for awhile, and the easyness of itunes and apple firmware is a big deal for me, and rock box is more of a... everything else i'd want to do
08:32:24samo21not as a replacement
08:32:27samo21just as a compliment
08:33:11Paul_The_NerdSee, Rockbox is designed to be a replacement
08:33:25Paul_The_NerdBut then, it's designed for people who prefer a full feature player with actual UMS capability.
08:33:38 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
08:34:20Galoissamo21: I just tested the .diff, it works
08:34:56Paul_The_NerdMass storage device
08:34:56Galoisbut it has the disadvantage that pressing Menu to get INTO rockbox takes even more calisthenics than pressing Menu to get into the apple firmware like before
08:35:47GaloisUSB Mass Storage is a nice perk and definitely the right decision, but my beef with the apple firmware is that it can't play my ogg files
08:35:55Galoisso, with that, I am backing out this ridiculous patch
08:36:24samo21lol okay...
08:36:37samo21yeah that was a problem for me that apple can't play my .ogg
08:36:38Angel_of_DeathGalois, yes
08:36:42samo21but i just broke down and converted them...
08:36:48Angel_of_Deaththat is the main reason my brother changed to rockbox
08:36:56Angel_of_Deaththen he found out about all those other features it has
08:37:01Paul_The_NerdTell me you mean "reencoded from the original source material" and not "transcoded"
08:37:02Angel_of_Deathi use ogg to brotha :P
08:37:13speacial_edsame error angel
08:37:20samo21well i opened it up in audacity
08:37:21Angel_of_Deathyes edd =(
08:37:26Angel_of_Deathi was looking forward to that game to
08:37:29samo21and exported as mp3
08:37:30speacial_edme to..
08:37:32 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
08:37:34Angel_of_Deathi used to play that game all the time...
08:37:35speacial_eddude the whole time i was playing
08:37:36Paul_The_NerdThat destroys file quality
08:37:42speacial_edi was like, why does this seem soooo familiar too me...
08:37:46speacial_edand then it hit me
08:37:53speacial_ed"ive played this in half life before"
08:37:54samo21yeah... but... its a sacrafice i'm willing to take
08:38:01Angel_of_Deathmaybe with some new builds they will fix some doom problems
08:38:04Angel_of_Deathand it will work
08:38:04samo21i'm not a huge audio nerd
08:38:08speacial_edand i instantly knew my way around
08:38:21Paul_The_NerdI'm not either, but once I can clearly hear a difference, it's too much.
08:38:36Paul_The_NerdI'm a nerd, but not an audiophile-type nerd.
08:38:44samo21well i guess you're right
08:38:45 Join ender` [0] (i=ychat@
08:38:51samo21i downloaded a bunch of classical music
08:38:53samo21from wikipedia
08:38:56samo21and they were all in .ogg
08:39:10samo21and i guess especially in classical music, it's easy to tell the loss in quality
08:39:16Galoisalso, bitrate matters for wikipedia
08:39:20Galoistheir infrastructure is strained
08:39:31Galoisso naturally they would go with the better quality format
08:39:50samo21yeah and also they didn't have to bother with liscensing issues
08:40:39samo21But, even with worse quality, i'm happy to have Antonio Vivaldi and the Becerra String Quartet on my iPod
08:41:11Angel_of_Deathogg vorbis if set to a high quality (1-5) it chooses which bit rate to use
08:41:21Angel_of_Deathlike if its a talk radio it might use 40
08:41:25Angel_of_Deathits smart
08:41:44Angel_of_Deathbut it tends to be about a 3rd smaller than mp3s, and like wav files its lostless
08:41:50Angel_of_Deathso there is no loss in quality
08:41:56Angel_of_Deathso oggs always sound good, never bad
08:41:57speacial_edugh.. i hate being too tired to sleep
08:42:21Angel_of_Deathi dont care
08:42:25Angel_of_Deathi wish nukem worked lol
08:42:26samo21yeah well... since i have rockbox now i'll always have that option
08:42:28speacial_edme to
08:42:34speacial_edhave you had any of the addons get past lvl 1?
08:42:35Angel_of_Deathu know what game i want on my iPod?
08:42:39samo21to listen to my .oggs unscrweed
08:42:54Angel_of_Deathi think it was called duke2
08:43:01samo21alright i'm gonna get going, gotta go to bed and what not, ... yay school.
08:43:04Angel_of_Deathit was a duke nukem game and it wasnt 3d
08:43:06samo21thanks guys
08:43:19 Quit samo21 ("CGI:IRC")
08:43:24Angel_of_Deathi should go soon to
08:43:30Angel_of_Deathgot stuff to do tomorrow
08:43:41speacial_edive got school
08:43:43speacial_edbut yeah
08:43:44speacial_eddun care
08:44:00Angel_of_DeathPaul_The_Nerd, it seems with almost any addon i play they DATA ABORT at some point
08:44:12Angel_of_Deathwith some its when i choose the difficulty
08:44:15speacial_edanother one?
08:44:18Galoisyou mean ?
08:44:19Angel_of_Deathand with others it is when i beat the first lvl
08:44:27Angel_of_Deathdo u think this is the fault of doom or the addons?
08:44:27Paul_The_NerdWell, as I said the Doom plugin is still fairly early
08:44:35Paul_The_NerdIt kinda depends on the addons
08:44:54Paul_The_NerdIf the addon will work with a basic doom2.exe or doom.exe then it should work, and if it doesn't our plugin needs more work
08:44:56Angel_of_Deathwell i havent cared to look or write down the number after DATA ABORT
08:44:59Galoisthe problem is duke2 isn't open source, so it would be kind of hard to port without the source code even if you're willing to ignore the licensing issues
08:45:04Angel_of_Deathmaybe i should to see if its the same one in all games
08:45:06Paul_The_NerdIf they require a specific source port like ZDoom or Legacy, then they won't work
08:47:31Angel_of_Deathalright dudes
08:47:42Angel_of_Deathanother day of crime fighting has ended
08:47:52Angel_of_Deathi leave u with a fun fact
08:48:09speacial_eddolphins are the only animals besides humans to have sex for pleasure??
08:48:13speacial_eddid i guess it?
08:48:47Angel_of_Deaththere are only 10 types of people who understand binary code and those who dont.
08:48:54Angel_of_Deathbut good job spe ed
08:49:10speacial_ed3 types of people who get math, those who do, and those who dont
08:49:20Angel_of_Deathyes ive heard that one also
08:49:29speacial_edwell dude if you leavin, gnight
08:49:34speacial_edand im gonna go too
08:49:43Angel_of_Death2 in 1 people understand fractions
08:49:54speacial_edwe should make a list of those
08:50:00speacial_edput em somewhere
08:50:02Angel_of_Deathaight nite
08:50:04speacial_edsee ya
08:50:07 Quit Angel_of_Death ("Leaving")
08:50:23speacial_edo, and paul... think about it... and tell me if you reconsider our marriage
08:50:38speacial_ednight man..
08:50:43Paul_The_NerdCya around
08:51:02 Quit speacial_ed ()
08:54:40*amiconn just checked, lostlogic had 31 commits in a row on playback.c so far.
08:55:40amiconnThe total number for his rework is even higher, but there were commits from other devs interspersed. The last 31 were solely made by lostlogic
08:56:07Paul_The_NerdBut progress is definitely being made.
08:56:52amiconnyes, definitely
09:03:50 Quit Sinbios ("If the definition of a klutz is someone who doesn't have eyes on their ass, then yes, I suppose I am a klutz.")
09:05:02Slasherihehe, now playback is stable again.. just checked out my last revision 1.226 of playback.c and using that for now for a while =)
09:05:29Paul_The_NerdSlasheri: Are files in TagCache supposed to be sorted by ID3 tracknumber?
09:05:40SlasheriPaul_The_Nerd: yes they are
09:06:14Paul_The_NerdI have a lot of people saying they aren't.
09:06:40Paul_The_NerdPeople in the forums keep saying they're sorted alphabetically
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09:07:48Paul_The_NerdIs there anything specific I should be having them double check (or do to better figure out what's going wrong?)
09:07:53Slasherihmm.. does the browser display the tag number before the title?
09:08:08Slasheriif not, then there most likely was a problem with reading the track number tag..
09:08:38Paul_The_NerdI'll ask that next time it comes up then
09:08:42Slasherigood :)
09:09:13Paul_The_NerdI know one mentioned that the numbers were shown out of order, but that one I'm pretty sure was using an older build. I'm not sure if the numbers displayed for the people having issues with CVS.
09:09:22Paul_The_NerdI seem to recall something implying to me they weren't, but I'm not certain
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09:10:15Slasheriyep, at least i have fixed one bug that could put the tracknumber tags out of order
09:10:15amiconnSlasheri: Tagcache now always shows 'Committing tagcache' at boot, even if there's nothing to commit?
09:10:33Slasheriamiconn: yes, that should be probably fixed
09:10:36Paul_The_NerdSlasheri: Alright, next time it comes up I'll make sure to double check whether they're displaying for them.
09:10:56peturI reported this too in the past
09:11:11Slasheriamiconn: it shows it just for a very brief moment?
09:11:11amiconnSlasheri: I didn't forget to fix the msg position. Will happen before release, I promise...
09:11:27Slasherihehe, nice :)
09:11:28amiconnSlasheri: Yes, but it shows the real message, not an empty string
09:12:04Slasheriamiconn: ah, yes. That's because the program doesn't know before calling tagcache_init() if there really is anything to commit..
09:12:31Slasherimaybe tagcache_init could return a value if there is something to commit, and then we could call tagcache_commit()
09:12:34amiconnYeah, but tagcache init does know, I suppose?
09:12:53amiconnYes, that sounds better
09:12:57Slasheriyep, or it can be made known
09:13:01Slasheriok, i will do that
09:13:13amiconnjust return a bool...
09:15:25nudelThe guy who asked for APEv2 tag support on mp3s didn't respond to my post asking why. :( I was genuinely interested and it seems a bit crap to ask for a feature but not be able to justify why you want it.
09:16:06Paul_The_Nerdnudel: Many people want it simply so they don't have to retag their files.
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09:17:51Slasherilostlogic: btw, after you have finished with playback.c, i could start redesigning the buffering structure entirely to support dynamic chunked memory allocation
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09:22:01amiconnSlasheri: How's chunked browsing coming along?
09:22:07Slasherithen we would have a simple malloc & memory manager in rockbox, to allow allocating big buffers during runtime
09:22:28Slasheriamiconn: i have now got the idea how to do it, so it's not far away :)
09:22:35amiconnNo malloc in the core, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease
09:22:43Slasheriamiconn: for example, we could commit tagcache during playback with this..
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09:23:07amiconnWe want to be able to do simple buffer reallocation, nothing more
09:23:33Slasheriamiconn: i think that is the only way to "relocate" living playback buffer..
09:23:45amiconnNot living.
09:23:56Slasheriwell, then it's not so funny at all ;)
09:24:07amiconnStop playback and reallocate all buffers
09:24:23Slasherii think that could be in fact harder to do..
09:24:34amiconnI don't think so
09:24:40Slasheribecause we would need to relocate all buffers at once
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09:24:51amiconnNot relocate, reallocate
09:25:01Slasheriah, yes.. even worse
09:25:25Slasherireallocating would mean also reloading of all data..
09:25:34amiconnyes, and?
09:25:37Slasherifor example tagcache, dircache etc.
09:25:41nudelPaul_The_Nerd: Retagging their files is an easy, one-off, automatic process. Given that and the fact that APEv2 on MP3 is *wrong* and apparently has no benefits I don't see a compelling reason to support it and encourage the wrongness.
09:25:45amiconnIt's not something that will happen often.
09:25:47Slasheriso reboot would be even faster then
09:26:17nudelI figure anyone who has ended up with APEv2 tagged MP3s is using a "geek" program and thus perfectly able to find and use a tag converter.
09:26:21amiconnReboot would take the same time, in fact longer
09:26:34Paul_The_Nerdnudel: Well, it's basically an argument between "Rockbox should be as feature rich as possible, and support all functioning format/tag combinations possible" and "Rockbox should support the 'native' tag formats, and assume ID3 is native for MP3 since there isn't really one"
09:26:44amiconn...because reboot does (of course) also reallocate everything, but it adds boot delay, and boot hassle
09:26:58Galoisid3 on mp3 is *wrong* too, especially id3v1
09:27:07Paul_The_Nerdnudel: While ApeV2 is perhaps a more robust format, it also has some disadvantages (though they're identical to ID3v1 disads, I believe) that being they're on the end of the file
09:27:08amiconn...e.g. to rebbot the archos from ROM, you need to unplug power
09:27:13Slasheriyep, true. but then we couldn't for example commit tagcache in backgroudn..
09:27:24Slasheribecause we don't know how much to reserve memory for it
09:27:24nudelwrong but supported by everything, whereas apev2 is both ignored and able to cause rubbish audio playback by some software
09:27:52amiconnSlasheri: No, but malloc has so many implications on an embedded platform you shouldn't even think of
09:27:58Galoisold versions of l3dec gave garbage on id3v1
09:28:17nudelThat was in 1964 though. :)
09:28:44Galoisactually one of the reasons I moved to ogg (not the main reason, but one of the reasons) was to escape this mess
09:28:45amiconnFor one, it'll literally bloat code size. You will have to check everywhere whether an allocation failed.
09:28:49nudelIf I invent Nudel'sGratuitousTagFormatv5 tomorrow and it's got the same features as ID3v2 but incompatible I don't think there's a compelling case to add support to it in rockbox.
09:29:09Slasheriamiconn: hmm, i just thought about a version that could allocate big static buffers from playback buffer to dircache, pcm buffer etc. and then when committing tagcache in background, it would allocate and steal from the playback buffer
09:29:15amiconn...and I definitely don't want rockbox to fail with a 'malloc error' like ipl sometimes reportedly does.
09:29:21Slasherionly playback buffer would be then dynamically allocated and chunked
09:29:38nudelI use ogg as well, but IMO there's no mess or disadvantage if you just tag all mp3s with ID3v2, and I don't know any reason for people to use any other format.
09:30:18Slasherii.e., playback buffer would be the malloc pool space
09:30:20GaloisI also think rockbox should just support id3 and to hell with other mp3 tags
09:30:21amiconnWell, if you want to steal from playback buffer while playing, how would you handle the case when the area you're about to steal is currently playing?
09:30:43amiconnBtw, that goes for both swcodec and hwcodec, and also for recording (!!)
09:30:47Slasheriamiconn: playback engine could handle it and make sure we don't touch such an areas
09:31:19amiconnAvoiding it later once it is cut away isn't the problem
09:31:31Slasheriamiconn: we could allocate for example already played data or from data to be played far in the future
09:31:41amiconnWhat's with the buffer part being used at the very moment you're allocating?
09:32:01amiconnGrr, and make the RAM non-contiguous???
09:32:15Slasheriyes, only the codec buffer ram.. :)
09:32:22amiconnSay hello to memory fragmentation :(
09:33:27Slasheriamiconn: and all allocations would be n * fixed_chunk_size
09:35:25Slasheriof course that could increase initial failure bugs in the playback engine, but i don't see any big issues with that
09:35:45Slasheriand the benefits would be huge
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09:37:59Slasheribut need to do more investigations on paper first to make sure if it would work :)
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09:49:19amiconnSlasheri: Don't forget hwcodec and recording. The recording engine would get into serious trouble if the buffer is almost full (shortly before a flush) and then you ask it to give away RAM...
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09:49:31*man_in_shack waves
09:49:43man_in_shackanyone here have an iriver h340 or h320?
09:50:39Slasheriamiconn: hmm, true.. at least hwcodec would be an issue, until playback engine are unified
09:50:55Paul_The_Nerdman_in_shack: Do you have a question about Rockbox, because it's possible non-owners can help you there.
09:51:43*petur looks aside and suddenly remembers he has one
09:52:07Slasheriamiconn: probably with recording we wouldn't allow that memory management to be used at all
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09:53:13amiconnSlasheri: Even then, the recording engine would need work. What if a buffer was allocated during playback, and (with your idea) RAM became non-contiguous (yuck!), and then the user wants to record something?
09:54:25peturI hate memory fragmentation!
09:54:50amiconnRockbox isn't linux, and that's for a reason. For a goood reason.
09:55:06Slasheriamiconn: well, i think we can still relocate the allocated data (it would remain always contiguous)
09:55:23Slasherithat we would have contiguous free space when entering in recording mode
09:55:34Slasheriamiconn: hmm, or maybe not.. dircache data can't be relocated
09:55:38amiconnBack in the old days, rockbox actually had malloc. It was removed deliberately, and that was for good, imo
09:55:50Slasheriwell, we could indicate if the data can be relocated or not
09:56:15man_in_shackPaul_The_Nerd, i want to know what sort of usb connectors it has :)
09:56:27amiconnSlasheri: We're already in serious need of optimisation & cleanup. Rombox FM recorder is already broken (340 bytes too large)
09:56:50Slasherihmm, yep.. anyway, that wouldn't happen at anytime soon :)
09:57:08peturI think the best we could do is have chunks of memory for various needs, and be able to move their boundaries back and forth to increase/decrease them
09:57:10amiconnThe cleanup? It should happen before release!
09:57:36Slasheriamiconn: yes, that of course :) but not the memory allocation idea
09:58:18Slasheripetur: yep, i also think n * fixed_chunks would be the best method to do it
09:58:29Slasherithen it would be easier to relocate them
09:58:52peturnot relocate
09:59:31Paul_The_Nerdman_in_shack: USB 2.0, as well as a USB 1.1 host (on the international models)
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09:59:44man_in_shackyeah but what KIND of CONNECTOR
09:59:53man_in_shackas in what shape
10:00:06Paul_The_NerdI believe B for the 2.0 and A for the host, but I'm not certain
10:00:21ashridahPaul_The_Nerd: i think they're both the same on the H3xx
10:00:28Paul_The_NerdBoth A then?
10:00:36peturthey're not the same
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10:00:47ashridahPaul_The_Nerd: i could be wrong
10:00:51*Paul_The_Nerd shrugs
10:00:53Paul_The_NerdI wouldn't know.
10:01:06ashridahi know the usb 2.0 one is a mini tho
10:01:09Paul_The_NerdI've only ever seen the front of 'em. I listen a lot, but I don't think it's come up in my presence before
10:01:24man_in_shackwhat kind of mini?
10:01:28Paul_The_NerdWell, the host has to be full size according to specifications, right?
10:02:06man_in_shackPaul_The_Nerd, or have an adaptor
10:02:10peturmini-B female & mini-AB female according to our wiki (
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10:04:52peturthe device USB (2.0) looks like a mini-B to me
10:05:10amiconnThe H300 usb sockets are Mini-B for the high speed device port, and Mini-AB for the host port
10:05:31amiconnBtw, both are USB2.0, that has nothing to do with the transfer speed
10:06:20amiconnMini-AB means that both an ordinary Mini-B plug and the special host plug fit.
10:06:21peturcouldn't find the AB plug in wikipedia
10:06:59man_in_shacki think iriver claim it's usb1.1 for the host port
10:08:02peturspeed, yes
10:08:22man_in_shackfull speed, as opposed to high speed 8)
10:08:57peturyes, that has confused me too in the past.
10:09:10amiconnYes. It's still USB2.0, because USB1.1 doesn't define the on-the-go extension
10:09:29man_in_shackso ... what about toshiba gigabeat players? anyone looking into them?
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10:09:42amiconnHehe, Canon even used this confusion back when USB2.0 was new
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10:10:19amiconnThey advertised some scanners as USB2.0. Technically they were correct, but these scanners didn't support high speed mode.
10:14:00Paul_The_Nerdman_in_shack: I think there's one person working on one? Maybe? I haven't heard much about it in a while. There's a forum for 'em at our forums.
10:14:08amiconnSlasheri: I've found tagcache commit happens before loading settings. Is this necessary?
10:14:33amiconnI hope that can be changes, as it means the 'Committing tagcache' message isn't localised...
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10:48:14Slasheriamiconn: ah, i will check that. probably it can be loaded later too
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11:35:03wehnHi people! Just curious; How's the problem of H300 battery life (cf H100) been going?
11:36:59peturdon't know. Linus was looking at it I think but he hasn't showed up here the last few days
11:38:32wehnlast i read: either greater bitdepth and perpetual updates of screen or..
11:38:48wehnsomething about the idling of the proccessor was different.
11:40:32peturwell in any case it's on the todo list for 3.0
11:40:58amiconnSomething is really fishy on H300. Either RAM isn't setup correctly (though I don't know where that'd happen, as the code is identical for H1x0 and H300,
11:41:08amiconnor something is hogging the bus.
11:42:06amiconnRemote LCD updates should be equally fast on H300 and H140 as long as no main LCD access is happening in parallel, but they aren't
11:42:33amiconn...and the difference increases at lower CPU frequencies.
11:43:08peturso something is stealing a fixed amount of time?
11:51:13wehnamicon: would USB on the GO affect the bus, is it powered down?
11:53:00peturwehn: that's surely something to check as soon as I have a complete list of interconnects
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11:55:43wehnand the difference between H300 and H100 remotes is 5-7%..
11:56:01wehncould that be explained by highbitdepth main screen taxing time?
12:07:04amiconnwehn: Not if no access to the main lcd is happening
12:07:37amiconn...and at lower clocks, the difference is *much* higher than 5..7%
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12:16:20wehnjust measured the USBtoGO port: seems to be off.
12:16:37wehngets 4.7Volts only in browser screen in iriver fw.
12:17:14wehnAlso interestingly has overcurrent warnings which I tripped with big clumsy probes
12:17:16peturthanks for sharing that
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12:17:26peturyes it has
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13:40:22Jungti1234hi lostlogic
13:40:57peturmister playback engine :)
13:41:53lostlogicnot this morning, paying work, really.
13:42:55peturI certainly wondered how you (and others) manage to work on RB while being at work. I have absolutely no time for that...
13:43:43 Quit wehn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:50:00amiconnlostlogic: Playback seems to work fairly well now, thanks :-) However, I got a strange effect this morning:
13:50:48amiconnI wanted to resume my playlist. It seemed to resume (track 2, ~15 seconds into the track), however, playback didn't start.
13:51:29amiconnWPS displayed the |> icon, but time didn't progress. I was able to stop, so no hard freeze
13:51:57amiconnTried to resume again, and this time it worked, however, it resumed from the beginning of the track
13:52:38amiconnDidn't manage to reproduce this effect...
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13:57:59lostlogicpetur: depends on the job and what projects are ongoing ;)
13:58:40 Quit aliask (Client Quit)
13:59:02lostlogicamiconn: that is weird indeed... the main problem that needs addressing is that some cases of fast skipping, or forward/back skipping rapidly are known to cause buffer corruption, and I haven't figured out the code path that allows that yet, but as I said, not right now :)
14:01:14 Quit Rondom ("dann muss ich wohl disconnecten")
14:10:53MoosHello folks
14:12:12Mooslostlogic: congrates for your hard works : )
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14:12:35MoosBagder: around?
14:12:36lostlogicMoos: thanks −− how's it workin' out for ya?
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14:13:09bluebroI just noticed the tagcache commiting info uses the user font, not the system font −− which doesn't fit in my cause.
14:13:21Moospretty cool thanks (just a litle artifact pop sometimes after skiping...)
14:13:59bluebroas (I think) init_tagcache is now calles after settings_apply
14:14:16Mooslostlogic: and the insert playlist bug is gone ! :)
14:14:23lostlogicMoos: good
14:15:09Moosare you editing the wiki page?
14:15:13Slasheribluebro: ah, i will fix that font issue. Yep, i moved it to be called after settings have been loaded so it can display the message as user's native language
14:17:21bluebrobtw, commiting tagcache is really slow when keeping it on disk. I just tried setting it to "load to RAM" and it was wayyy faster. Is this normal?
14:17:43MoosSlasheri: Hi, how is hard to make the TagCache strings translatable in any language?
14:19:10MoosSlasheri: sorry I didn't read your previous answer : )
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14:19:59*Moos need to double check all his good with his francais.lang
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14:24:10MoosBagder (logs): I noticed today that the X5 cpu boost when there is not audio, just in browser with any keys touched or something, and the boost ratio=100%
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14:25:26Moosthat may be explain the poor X5 runtime
14:25:34Slasheribluebro: yep it is, tagcache benefits much from dircache and browsing / searching is faster with tagcache loaded in ram also
14:26:11SlasheriMoos: hmm, do you mean the menu entries?
14:26:31MoosI mean all things as possible : )
14:26:37SlasheriMoos: i don't yet have a solution for that, but maybe something will be invented sooner or later
14:26:40Slasherihehe :)
14:26:51Moos: ), isn't hurry
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14:27:35Slasheribluebro: hmm, loading tagcache to ram shouldn't affect the commit time..
14:28:03bluebromay this be caused because my drive is pretty full?
14:28:11Slasheribut it will have a major impact on the update check performance, it takes only a few seconds in backgroudn
14:28:27Slasheriprobably, you should also defragment your drive
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14:28:34Slasheriit might help a lot
14:29:09MoosSlasheri: out of curiosity, is the file count debug things is accurate?
14:29:14amiconnSlasheri: Btw, you may soon remove any explicit boost for disk accesses. I'll add boost control to the ata driver.
14:29:21bluebrodoes somebody know a defrag tool for linux?
14:29:26amiconnATA accesses are way faster when boosted.
14:29:57SlasheriMoos: with tagcache? not necessarily, it might also count directories and stuff like that. I will look into that later
14:30:05Mikachubluebro: there are none
14:30:07Slasheriamiconn: ah, that sounds good
14:30:13Mikachubluebro: basically you don't have to defrag good filesystems
14:30:22bluebrotoo bad
14:30:54bluebrounfortunately I can't use a good filesystem (tm) on my jukebox ;-)
14:31:06MoosSlasheri: I ask you this because stats plugin and your caches desn't show the same values (One of them is wrong then :P )
14:31:28dproMikachu: BTW speaking of 'good' filesystems is there / anyone working on a ext2/3 driver in rockbox ?
14:31:30Mikachubluebro: there's certainly no fat defragger
14:31:31Slasherihmm, with dircache, also directories are counted
14:31:34Mikachudpro: no
14:31:51Slasheribut excluding the . and .. files
14:31:55*dpro puts it on his own TODO list
14:31:57dwihnoDircache is sweeeet
14:31:58MoosSlasheri: ok thanks, I'll check
14:32:07Moos: )
14:32:09dwihnoare the libmad changes noticable?
14:32:25bluebrook, I'll try this later. gtg now.
14:32:35 Quit bluebro ("CGI:IRC")
14:33:08lostlogicSlasheri: the more I think about it, the more chunked filebuf allocation during playback seems like a Bad Idea (TM) I think that just like we currently reallocate the pcmbuffer and filebuffer if there is a change to pcm requirements, if an application will need part of the file buffer, it should request that full amount and we should reallocate the whole structure.
14:33:30dwihnoWhen listening to mp3's, I think it's boosted ~70% of the time.
14:33:36dwihnoI'll check if there are any differences.
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14:35:22Slasherilostlogic: hmm, maybe. but some sort of dynamic chunk allocation would be nice for a few core functions and to offer it for plugins too
14:35:44Slasherii don't see any too major issues preventing implementation of that to the playback engine
14:35:54MoosSlasheri: ok, good to know both stats plugin and dircach debug count in same way (same files+dir number)
14:36:08SlasheriMoos: hehe, nice :)
14:36:19lostlogichaving chunks out of the middle of a currently connected ring buffer... no major issues!?
14:36:39Slasherino :)
14:36:52Slasherithat should be quite easy to handle inside playback engien
14:37:28Slasheribecause then playback buffer wouldn't be contiguous at all
14:37:47lostlogicthe only way it's going to happen is if the chunks can only come out between tracks, and we give tracks a buffer pointer instead of using a single buf_ridx, but gaps inside of a track or inside of a codec, no way
14:37:58lostlogicbut then when the buffer loops, etc. we run into fragmentation issues
14:38:08lostlogicand we sure as whell dont' want want to be giving buffer chunk lists to each track
14:38:49dprowhile substantial changes are being proposed to the playback engine, may I add that just about anything that could make reverse playback and pause/play/seek a bit more deterministic would save me (personally that is) a lot of headache working around such issues ... ok go ahead ignore me ;)
14:38:55Slasheriwell, that depends how the buffering is implemented..
14:39:19Slasherithere shouldn't be fragmentation issues with fixed size chunks only
14:40:15lostlogic... of course there will be, any time you take a piece out of the middle of the buffer, when a track bumps into that boundary it will be fragmented...
14:40:58lostlogicunless you chunk the allocation of tracks too, and having a chunk-list for each track and codec and having the buffer waste associated with said fixed size chunks (call them 512k, that's 420k wasted per codec) is just not ok
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14:42:40Slasheriyep, that kind of fragmentation of course, when we need to switch from on chunk to another. With large enough chunk sizes and small data request amounts, guard buffer could handle that
14:42:55Slasheriof course it will have a minor impact with performance too
14:44:15lostlogicthis will not be minor. I am _strongly_ against this.
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14:45:17lostlogicthe performance impact will be significant, both on track buffering and on track playing, the space wasted will be proportunately large to the size of chunks, while the performance impact will be inversely proportional, and therefor there is no good chunk size.
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14:47:34lostlogicOne kinda-middle-of-the road solution would be to let other parts of the system request an amount of the buffer, which the playback engine will supply from the end of its buffer at the earliest possible time (at most, as long as it takes a currently playing song to play through that many bytes)
14:48:02lostlogicthese chunks could be returned to a pool, and a buffer refill could eventually reabsorb them into the main playback buffer
14:48:20lostlogicor they could be reallocated to the next requestor of a same or smaller chunk.
14:48:30 Part short1
14:49:01Slasheriyeah, that is one possible solution too, but it would make playback engine probably too complex
14:49:06Slasheribetter to be without it
14:49:15lostlogicno, it would add much much less complexity than chunks
14:49:46lostlogicthe playback itself would be complete unchanged, an external thread would be able to handle this kind of allocation with the currently provided api plus 1 or two more functions.
14:50:40lostlogicit monitors the buf_ridx pointer, and if it does not fall within the requested size of the end, it decreases filebuflen, and invalidates the buffer starting at where it actually resets the pointer to
14:50:45Slasherithe playback code would need to adapt to the changed ring buffer size, and eventually fill the freed area again. that won't be a simple thing to implement
14:50:55lostlogicfor additional simplicity, it could just invalidate th whole buffer except for the playign track up-to the insertion point
14:51:01Slasheriif we could even have more than one allocation at a time
14:51:07lostlogicSlasheri: all that has to change is the filebuflen to handle this
14:51:43lostlogicand a return to the buffer would wait until buf_widx is about to wrap, and then adjust filebuflen to include the 'freed' area
14:53:37Slasheriit's not necessarely enough to change the filebuflen unless we can allocate the data from the end of the buffer. but feel free to implement that if you like
14:54:12 Quit RedBreva ("CGI:IRC")
14:55:12lostlogicof course we will allocate data from the end of the buffer, why overly complicate the situation?
14:55:34Mikachuwhat if you're currently playing from that part?
14:55:57Slasheriyep, allocating 2 MB from end of the buffer is not always possible
14:56:11Slasheriso that kind of solution would be a big compromise anyway
14:56:28lostlogicthen either you stop playback and invalidate the whole buffer, or you wait until the track passes out of the area you wish to allocate.
14:57:12Slasheriwaiting is probably not what we want
14:57:14lostlogicbut the key is not to impact existing functionality when this 'feature' is not used, which any knid of chunked allocation would.
14:58:08lostlogicit would also be possible to do a forced buffer wrap at X bytes beyond the head of the playing track so that the allocation wait would be only X bytes.
14:58:33lostlogicI still don't see why we can't just flush and reallocate the playback buffer as we do for crossfade setting changes.
14:58:53Slasheriand if we want reasonable metadata buffering, chunked buffering mechanism would be ideal for that
14:59:04lostlogicno, no it wouldn't.
14:59:11Slasheriit would affect only the playback engine and require some redesign and debugging to the buffering
14:59:37lostlogicmetadata can already be added to the existin gbuffer structure without compromising the existing functionality.
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15:00:22Slasherihow is that possible when the track is laaarge? over 30 MB so it won't fit into the internal buffer..
15:00:31Slasheriall at once
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15:01:17Slasheriand i think the existing functionality has already been compromised little :) so that shouldn't be the reason not to do something
15:01:32Slasheribut now need to go home
15:01:55lostlogicthe metadata for the playing track is moved off of the buffer, just as it is currently.
15:02:03lostlogicfor codecs
15:03:39 Quit man_in_shack ("I make a lot of good points. Like that one.")
15:04:07lostlogicchunks are an unacceptable solution to me. ask other devs if you still think it's a good idea.
15:04:13lostlogicsee ya later.
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15:15:04amiconnlostlogic: I'm absolutely with you. See this morning's (UTC) log
15:15:33amiconnI think it would be sufficient to implement a simple reallocate-all scheme, involving stopping playback
15:17:01lostlogicamiconn: that or the end-of-buffer with delay system that I mentioned above would be acceptable to me.
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15:20:08lostlogicamiconn: good.
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15:20:45lostlogicand reallocating the buffer doesn't take very long... just look at how long changing crossfade settings takes
15:20:50lostlogicmaybe 2 or 3 seconds at most.
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15:24:04amiconnHehe, I have no experience with that.
15:24:14*amiconn has all fading stuff permanently disabled
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15:26:33thablastaa[guesthey, has anyone tried to use the morse-code-editor on ipod video?
15:27:58lostlogicamiconn: and I really don't appreciate slasheri's slight at my recent rework of the playback code. If he doesn't understand what is better about how it is written now, or why this was necessary **GRRR**
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15:37:46goffa_lol... damn my $150 bid on a h340 went south (didn't expect to win)
15:38:05Mikachudoes that mean you got it or not?
15:38:13goffa_didn't get it
15:38:23goffa_still 5 days left
15:38:49 Quit Kohlrabi ("Fast alle Menschen sind Regenw├╝rmer")
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15:41:10*amiconn never bids on ebay until seconds before the aucktion ends
15:41:27*warthawg heads over to ebay to search for h340
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15:44:26TBoyIt seems to me that the morse code input method has disappeared since the loadable virtual keyboards arrived
15:44:46amiconnlostlogic: What I was wondering about in your rework is the audio_pre_ff_rewind() function. What's that thing doing?
15:44:56TBoycan someone verify this?
15:45:11TBoyI'm btw using a H300
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15:45:59warthawg.−− .. .-.. .-.. -.-. .... . -.-. -.-
15:46:07goffa_not many 340's over there
15:46:11goffa_and they want almost retail
15:46:21warthawgyeah, ebay is really pricey these days
15:47:14goffa_nice morse code :)
15:47:43warthawgi know dat morse code, k1gpl :)
15:48:02goffa_<- had to use a translator.. but got the job done
15:48:51goffa_best deal i've found for the 340
15:49:02goffa_but.. don't know anything about that company
15:49:13goffa_could be run from a guy's trench coat :)
15:50:22peturand it's listed under 'out-of-stock' items :)
15:51:18lostlogicamiconn: it pauses the audio without setting the WPS display to pause (as you didn't like that) whiel the user is seeking to the new location.
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15:52:39warthawgwhat do i ask for to check the latest english voice out of cvs?
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15:53:15lostlogicwarthawg: voices aren't in CVS
15:53:31warthawgthanks, lostlogic
15:53:39warthawgno wonder i couldn't find them
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15:55:50Genahey guys
15:56:20Genawhat files do i need to keep if i dont want to loose my configuration when updating?
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15:58:44Farpnutquick question
15:58:58Farpnutdoes mini 2g wps support 2bit bitmaps?
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16:00:34peturGena: first write a config file
16:01:04peturGena: also copy any backdrop or WPS file you added and want to keep
16:01:20Genapetur: why do i need a config file?
16:01:49peturbecause when the configration block got changed you loose all your settings
16:01:52Genaif i changed some stuff in the menus, it should be written to a file, no?
16:02:11peturit's written to a hidden sector
16:02:12goffa_Gena: config file will save your changes
16:02:33peturso you must write it to a config file
16:02:46peturthen upgrade and read back the config file
16:02:47goffa_ah .. i was scrolled up
16:02:52goffa_petur was answering
16:03:00Genai see... is there something that dumps my configuration, or do i have to do it manually?
16:03:20goffa_i would keep a copy of it on the hard drive
16:03:25goffa_in case i screwed up
16:03:37peturmenu -> manage settings
16:03:52goffa_actually copying your .rockbox to your hd isn't a bad idea
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16:04:11goffa_only like 2mb anyway
16:04:25Genagoffa_: but then you would have to merge changes with new versions...
16:04:35peturand if you upgrade by unzipping a new build over your current install the wps and backdrop stuff isn't touched
16:04:44goffa_you'd have to copy every time you change
16:05:03amiconnlostlogic: What didn't I like about the pause status? Imho it makes no sense to have 2 functions performing almost the same thing.
16:05:10goffa_but could get you out of a jam if you accidentally remove your config or something
16:05:22peturGena: I have a config file and upgrade all the time by copying the new tree over the old one
16:05:41amiconnI'll check later how we're handling seek on hwcodec
16:06:43Genaok, thanks
16:07:04Genaanother thing is that doom doesnt work on my iaudio :(
16:07:25Genait freezes on "Starting graphics engine"
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16:11:21Genre9mp3Does anyone now how do I access the menu with a X5 Simulator?
16:11:28Genre9mp3now = know
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16:12:35TBoyI want to make a feature request, I have been wondering about this feature for a long time now
16:12:55Genre9mp3BTW The wiki does not have the keyboard configuration for the X5 sims
16:13:01TBoyand since we are in the progress of restructuring RB
16:13:33Genre9mp3nevermind....found it!
16:13:36TBoyI thought It might be time to ask what the majority of users think of it
16:13:57Genre9mp3(holding the / button)
16:15:09TBoyyou know how RB creates a dynamic playlist consisting of every song in same directory as the song you played
16:15:34TBoyand if one has a playlist loaded it just replaces this playlist with this new one
16:15:53TBoyI know you can just "queue" or "insert" the song
16:16:05TBoybut how about a new entry in that context menu
16:16:10TBoy"queue and play"
16:16:36TBoyso one does not have to queue a song, exit the fileviewer and skip to the next
16:17:06TBoyI have been doing this now since my Rec FM
16:17:41TBoyI just find that this could easily be added, and shouldn't confuse people
16:19:20goffa_TBoy: i've been requesting this for a while
16:19:37peturis it on the tracker?
16:19:38goffa_well .. indirectly
16:19:41goffa_doubt it
16:19:47goffa_i asked in the forum
16:19:48TBoyI was going to post it there
16:20:05TBoybut just wanted to hear what devs think of it here
16:20:06goffa_but... what happens to me all of the time is i go into the file browser
16:20:14goffa_and out of habbit i hit the left button on the song i want
16:20:18peturfeature requests should be made on thr tracker if you don't want them forgotten
16:20:20goffa_that blows away my playlist
16:20:23goffa_and ques that dir
16:20:32TBoypetur: sure I will post it now
16:20:38darklessI love the new crossfeed... The adjustability is really nice, and not having to adjust the volume is great
16:20:43goffa_happens more now that depressing the middle button on the x5 selects
16:20:50goffa_because its easy to bump the button
16:21:14goffa_luckily its not hard to reload a playlist..
16:21:18goffa_still kind of annoying
16:21:29goffa_i'd rather have it just queue and play the file
16:21:34goffa_then i wouldn't have to reload my playlist
16:22:00TBoywhat I would like to request to is the ability or option to pick one of these methods, which are represented in the context menus, as the select/right button action
16:22:10darklessgoffa: wouldn't enabling the party mode do something similar?
16:22:30goffa_party mode ques your track last
16:22:42goffa_also, it then prevents you from loading a playlist too
16:22:44TBoyso one could just pick "queue & play" as the NAVI button action on the H300 or the select action on a IPOD
16:22:48goffa_unless you disable party mode
16:22:55darklessgoffa: ah, gotcha
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16:23:45TBoyI'm gonna go ahead and post these into the feature request tracker
16:23:46goffa_i'm glad someone else in here wants the same thing as me :)
16:24:00goffa_TBoy: you could also include this for reference.. just a min
16:24:25TBoyhehe well I remember seeing someone asking for something like this
16:24:27darklessthe latest CVS has some problems with buffering, it seems. I was listening to a track when suddenly playback stops for a few secs while the audio buffer gets refilled (at least that's what seems to be happening). Afterwards playback continued
16:24:34TBoybut just constantly being rejected
16:24:36goffa_TBoy: i did on the forum
16:24:39 Quit TCK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:24:43goffa_under the topic one button queuing
16:24:58goffa_heh... post to it from time to time so it hits the top of the forum
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16:25:24goffa_i even put in a $50 bounty to the project if it gets included
16:25:53goffa_then i wouldn't have to join hair club for men.. or get that ronco spray
16:26:00goffa_(from pulling my hair out)
16:26:06TBoyhehe ok that's nice I will refrence to that patch
16:26:13TBoyehh refer
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16:26:36goffa_patch isn't working as far as i know
16:26:40goffa_but its a starting point
16:26:48goffa_because that's what we want, right?
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16:27:00TBoyyeah I know, but someone could pick it up
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16:27:30TBoyI think
16:27:33TBoyit make my/our request more likely to be looked at
16:27:38goffa_yeah... i think so too
16:27:49goffa_because that makes 3 people that have requested it
16:27:50lostlogicamiconn: what do you mean by two functions performing the same thing?
16:27:56goffa_and we are just the vocal ones :)
16:28:01goffa_others would find it useful i think
16:29:04goffa_would be better for me than having doom
16:29:32goffa_since i bought a music player with the intention of playing music
16:29:38*goffa_ admits games are a nice bonus
16:30:06TBoyhehe yeah that's true
16:30:26TBoyit's just, I have been reading alot about people not wanting
16:30:39goffa_i think its a lot of people not understanding
16:30:44TBoyto many settings in the configuration menus
16:30:46goffa_they think party mode is the same
16:31:01goffa_but if you ask me ... rockbox is ABOUT customization
16:31:45goffa_so the more options the better, as long as they are organized, and don't bloat the code too much
16:31:58TBoysurely it is, but we/they like to keep it simple to a certain degree
16:32:13Genasay, is there an option to simply play everything without a playlist (like the in the official x5 firmware)?
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16:32:19goffa_yeah.. i can understand that too
16:32:26goffa_Gena: no
16:32:31MikachuGena: go to / and insert everything
16:32:45goffa_TBoys idea would give you the same functionality
16:32:59Genabut then i dont have order in my playlist
16:33:01goffa_you can autogenerate a playlist from /
16:33:12MikachuGena: you want order in a playlist, but you don't want to have a playlist
16:33:35Genaexactly... :)
16:33:45goffa_Gena: you want to be able to just have all of your songs queued, but you want to go to the file browser and select a track, right?
16:33:54goffa_without having to go and reload root playlist
16:34:28Genasomething like that
16:34:41goffa_that's essentially what me and TBoy are suggesting... it would make the x5 act like orig firmware
16:34:50goffa_in that respect
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16:35:14 Quit Jungti1234 ()
16:35:20goffa_so there's 4 people i can name now that understand my point of view :)
16:35:42Genaactually i didnt really understand your idea...
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16:36:25warthawgi need a plugin for rb nano that will feed xchat the tracks i am listening to so i can annoy everyone on irc
16:37:13goffa_here it is in more detail... step 1: make a playlist from root, step 2: open said playlist.. when you hit the navi button it opens the file browser
16:37:20goffa_then you can browse for your track
16:37:26goffa_just like you did with the x5
16:37:41goffa_when you select a track, it queues it and plays it
16:37:54goffa_and doesn't wipe out your current playlist
16:38:17goffa_so it would behave like the x5... it would have a playlist, but not act like you needed it :)
16:38:40*goffa_ hopes he's being clear
16:39:16Genaok... and it's not implemented now?
16:39:33goffa_because you can't change the button mapping for the navi button
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16:40:39goffa_its explained differently here Gena
16:41:34goffa_but that patch isn't working/included... yet
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16:46:50amiconngoffa: Rockbox doesn't try to mimic any original firmware. That would be simply impossible given the multiplatform nature, and doesn't make sense either
16:47:26 Quit damaki_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:47:42TBoyis it possible to edit a request sent from my account
16:47:45TBoyon the tracker
16:47:49amiconnIf one wants the behaviour of the original firmware, he can use the original firmware. Rockbox tries to implement a sensible and consistent UI
16:47:52Mikachuyou can write a comment
16:48:02TBoythat's my request
16:50:22amiconn(although the consistency still needs work)
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16:51:55TBoyI am not trying to mimic original firmware
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16:52:08TBoyor wanting you guys to do so
16:52:23TBoyoh ok you were talking to goffa_
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16:56:16goffa_amiconn: i'm not trying to mimic firmware.. just want it to have same functionality
16:57:13goffa_if original firmware did everything i wanted it to do, i wouldn't use rockbox... as it is.. rockbox is CLOSER to what i want
16:57:37 Join Farpnut [0] (
16:57:44goffa_and this would not ruin the consistancy of the user interface
16:58:18 Join damaki [0] (
16:59:25goffa_i want to make it clear also, that i do not want rockbox to be a clone/hack of the x5 firmware.. that's not my intention
17:01:33 Join quobl_ [0] (n=quobl@tor/session/external/x-8826d380fb602a35)
17:01:34goffa_oh.. and thanks for posting that TBoy
17:01:37warthawggoffa_ are you the creator of RB?
17:01:53goffa_absolutely not... not even a developer.. not claiming to be
17:02:10warthawgoh, sorry, i misunderstood
17:02:11Moosjust a complainer : )
17:02:27warthawgwho is the creator?
17:02:58goffa_i don't see how asking for a feature/describing what i want is complaining
17:03:04Moosgoffa_: we are a *lot* thinking Rockbox is so far batter than stacks fws
17:03:35goffa_Moos: me too.. i thought that's what i explained
17:03:41Moosgoffa_: for exemple, I putted iaudio fw in garbage the day Linus coded audio
17:03:55goffa_Moos: me too
17:04:04Mooscool then : )
17:04:23 Quit Farpenoodle (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:04:31goffa_like i said... IF stock firmware did everything i wanted.. i wouldn't be using rockbox
17:04:43goffa_it doesn't... so... I use rockbox
17:04:49GargamaleStock firmware does something I use: video
17:04:53TBoycheck that out, list all of those people
17:05:04Moosgoffa_: apologies for misundertood then
17:05:16goffa_np Moos
17:05:20*Moos need to scroll back log befor talking : )
17:05:25 Part CoCoLUS
17:06:11MoosGargamale: sooner or later Video will happen here
17:06:18goffa_if i didn't support rockbox... i wouldn't donate.. and i sure as hell wouldn't spend as much time in here as i do
17:06:38 Join CoCoLUS_ [0] (
17:06:46Mooshaha XD
17:07:03goffa_the people on are my heros
17:08:05*Moos goes back work
17:12:37GargamaleMoos: I know, Im just saying the original FW has a use
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17:19:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:31:54lostlogicanyone know if the sdl sim uses the rockbox non-preemptive threading model, or a preemptive threading model?
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17:33:12HaveANiceDaywill there be a rockbox for rio carbon maybe?
17:33:44 Quit MulziSAW11 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:33:46pondlifelostlogic: Thanks for asking...!
17:33:50 Part webguest94
17:34:00lostlogicpondlife: Liam?
17:34:14amiconnlostlogic: The sim simulates the non-preemptive rockbox threading with sdl threads. Every rockbox thread is an sdl thread, and the threads are interlocked so that only one can run at a time.
17:34:30lostlogicamiconn: great.
17:34:32pondlifelostlogic: Yes, I am now consistently named everywhere on
17:34:40lostlogic*applies pondlife's patch*
17:34:45amiconnSim-housekeeping tasks (like the timer tick simulation) don't fall under this interlocking
17:35:22pondlifelostlogic: I've played a couple of albums through with no lockups, if that's any use as an indicator
17:35:44 Quit JazzBone (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:35:48amiconnThe interlocking is done with an sdl mutex. See uisimulator/sdl/thread-sdl.c
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17:37:02HaveANiceDaymutex i've heard about thhat
17:37:13lostlogicamiconn: yeah, I see now. then the same locking style that's used on target will work on th esim and pondlife's patch is good to go.
17:37:24*pondlife is happy to help
17:37:34amiconnWhat's that patch doing?
17:37:34HaveANiceDaywill there be a rockbox for rio carbon maybe?
17:37:41lostlogicamiconn: currently sim mutexes do nothing
17:37:50lostlogicamiconn: with the patch, sim behavior will be much more like target behavior
17:37:56amiconnah ok
17:37:56pondlifeamiconn: Stops the sim crashing with the new playback code too
17:38:17pondlifelostlogic: Stops pondlife bugging lostlogic too
17:38:21amiconnDidn't experience a sim crash with the new playback code
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17:38:43amiconn...but experienced crashes with voice in sim. Something is fishy in talk.c
17:38:50pondlifeamiconn: H300 SDL sim crashes easily if you just skip from track 1 to track 2
17:39:10pondlifewell, it does here...
17:39:15*amiconn doesn't skip often
17:39:34*pondlife is picky
17:39:55pondlifeand was trying to break the new code anyway
17:39:55lostlogichehe, this was probably the cause of a lot of other sim bugs
17:40:00lostlogicincluding some of the voice ones amiconn
17:40:13ts-xHaveANiceDay: If you or someone who's interested ports it over there will be
17:40:23HaveANiceDayahh, i have no clue how to do that
17:41:26amiconnlostlogic: The voice crash I observed wasn't mutex related. It happens at the end of a voice clip, when the code wants to compare mpeg headers (which is btw unnecessary on swcodec platforms as you said it's possible to force the codec to resync)
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17:41:49amiconnThis comparison leads to a null pointer access -> segmentation fault
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17:42:20warthawgnull pointer? did someone call me?
17:43:55goffa_he he he
17:44:11pondlifeThe crash I was investigating was a null pointer comparing next/last track codec types. Is this crash reproducible?
17:45:06lostlogicpondlife: you seem a smart fellow... another pair of eyes auditing all of playback.c sounds like a good thing to me :):) (hint hint)
17:45:49amiconnpondlife: Do you mean the voice crash?
17:46:16darklesshmm... 4:07 into a 11:35 min track, the latest stopped playback. I tried pressing play/pause but only the WPS icon changed. Then I pressed stop which promptly froze it
17:46:17 Part HaveANiceDay
17:46:29darklessthe latest CVS snapshot*
17:46:30pondlifelostlogic: I'd love to, but no chance of enough time. My day job is all-consuming.
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17:47:48pondlifeBesides it seems to be working pretty well now - just little glitches mainly
17:49:47lostlogicpondlife: right, I'm down to the shit that's really nit-picky and hard to find :-\
17:49:57pondlifeAh, nope, just got a WPS/playback out of sync problem...
17:49:57lostlogicpondlife: day job... right... I should work on that sometimes too :)
17:50:09pondlifeThat's what your boss says, right!
17:50:13Mikachulostlogic: i thought you said you were really really going to today :)
17:50:31amiconnIt's easily reproducable. Build a sim, put a matching .voice file in archos/.rockbox/lang , start the sim and open the menu. It tries to voice the first menu item, and segfaults within a second or so.
17:50:33lostlogicMikachu: I fixed anotehr critical this morning... and marked another as a duplicate... :)
17:51:01pondlifeamiconn: No need to have music playing?
17:51:25*pondlife has focus on the wrong window, so ignore him
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17:53:36pondlifeamiconn: I don't have a current voice file - will the ones from 2.5 still work, or has langv2 affected that?
17:54:41pondlifeok, I've crashed it!
17:54:43amiconnIt has. They still work as in that they produce output, but the clips are all mixed up
17:54:48amiconn(and incomplete)
17:58:45warthawgand here i thought that was just me
17:58:55*warthawg switches voice off
17:59:59*goffa_ has never enabled voice
18:00:22warthawgi'm doing a review so i have to try a lot of bells and whistles
18:00:46amiconnFor me, voice is a major feature of rockbox. Very useful in the car...
18:01:01warthawgamiconn, i can see how it can be
18:01:02goffa_i just know that if i was forced to have it enabled i'd have a broken iaudio eventually
18:01:13warthawgi wonder if it works for 2.5 on the ipod nano
18:01:47warthawgbut i love the new wps rockbox blue thingie too much to go back and find out :)
18:02:04*amiconn has current voice files but won't distribute the at&t ones until the license issue is (hopefully) solved
18:02:13pondlifeVoice is THE major feature of rockbox for me, in car. Fast boot-up and gapless come next...
18:02:25amiconnI could put up the ms voices. These are free to use...
18:02:29warthawgcoolie, it's good to know that
18:02:35Mikachudoesn't suck ass is my major feature over apple os :)
18:02:42warthawgamiconn, if they fit the latest releases, please do
18:02:56pondlifeamiconn: It would be good to do that and update the wiki for them.
18:03:04warthawgcoolie == coolio + fat finger
18:03:22 Quit gunpowda (" HydraIRC -> <- IRC for those that like to be different")
18:03:26amiconnYes they do (maybe 1 or clips missing). They are built from the .lang files just before the conversion to v2 (but after my major rework)
18:03:49warthawgit would be a nice feature to cover in the review ;)
18:05:34 Quit petur ("bbl")
18:05:40*amiconn should also adapt MakeVoices.vbs and voicefont.cpp to langv2
18:06:26pondlifeHmm.. I wouldn't have thought that queue_read should be > queue_write..?
18:06:37pondlifeWe have a QUEUE_LEVEL of -1 here
18:06:46pondlifeor 63 (after masking)
18:07:10pondlifeAnyone know if that's likely to be valid?
18:08:20lostlogicpondlife: context?
18:08:33pondlifeSorry - talk.c, looking at amiconn's crash
18:08:51pondlifeI'm new to this code (not to mention this channel), just thinking aloud a bit
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18:09:16lostlogicMmm, yes, you too will soon be in trouble with your boss for owrking on side projects too much :)
18:10:17pondlifeLet's hope so
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18:10:38lostlogicare you referring to the queue_read and queue_write indexes as handled by the queueing code in kernel.c?
18:11:31lostlogicno, I suppose not (*has never opened talk.c*)
18:12:06pondlifeDon't worry, I'll get used to gdb soon enough.
18:12:19lostlogicnever used it :)
18:12:26pondlifeYou've got enough to do as it is!
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18:15:38lostlogicI keep trying to recruit someone else to nail down whatever race condition can happen with rebuffering vs. seeking vs. whatever.
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18:26:30lostlogicSo, the question (and the unhappy answer) are: what happens when another event is already on the queue when the codec requests its next track? That event is processed on the audio thread before the codec's rebuffer event, if it is going to rebuffer.
18:26:41lostlogicso now I hafta make sure that all such cases are 'safe'.
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18:27:37 Part XavierGr
18:27:50lostlogicat least the source of many (most?) of the remaining bug reports in playback has been identified.
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18:27:58amiconnlostlogic: That's what I meant with having 2 queues a few days ago...
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18:28:03lostlogicamiconn: exactly.
18:29:13amiconnI didn't take a closer look on how the playback code now handles events which can't be handled in a single iteration.
18:30:12amiconnI know that the hwcodec engine does this, e.g. it rebuffers in chunks, and posts rebuffer events to its own queue untiil the bufer is full
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18:36:31lostlogicamiconn: that's sorta what swcodec does, it just sets a filling state, and as long as that state is set and no new events hit its queue, it keeps filling.
18:36:46lostlogicbut the bigger issue here is that the playlist advance is actually done off queue
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18:37:20lostlogicso I may need to move it on queue and then do some smarter synchronization for skips FOR NOW and handle fast skipping later.
18:37:27amiconnhwcodec uses the queue for almost everything to serialize events.
18:37:50amiconnOf course this also has a disadvantage. Sometimes user events should get priority...
18:38:16pondlifeamiconn: I think I've fixed the voice crash, but I'm not sure if I've also truncated voice output - do you have a langv2 voice file available?
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18:55:25Genre9mp3I'm trying to create a diff of my changes with the CVS but I get this: cvs diff: warning: failed to open /home/~~~/.cvspass for reading: No such file or directory
18:55:38Genre9mp3Is there something I can do about this?
18:55:44Mikachucvs login
18:56:26Genre9mp3cvs login?
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18:57:07Genre9mp3"cvs login" this you mean?
18:57:38Mikachudid you do a cvs checkout already? takes sometime....
18:59:22Genre9mp3doesn't respond...
18:59:50Genre9mp3It's cvs diff -u > my.patch right?
19:04:25Genre9mp3Still doesn't respond...neither with creating the diff or checkout source
19:05:17lostlogicwhee, ok, I'm caught up at the paying job, back to rockboxing this afternoon :-P
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19:06:44Mooslostlogic: have fun
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19:15:14goffa_heh... wish i could say whee when going to the paying job
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19:18:06goffa_i plan on winning the lottery this week.. so that should change :)
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19:19:50Moosgood luck ; )
19:19:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:20:01goffa_thanks.. going to need it
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19:20:35Moosyeah a lot of it
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19:21:00goffa_i put $5 into the company pool... just in case we win, i don't want to be the last one working there
19:21:22Mooshehe : )
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19:37:03charkinsdoes the video viewer only support grayscale currently? or could I skip the halftone step when creating the rvf files?
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20:08:22darklessanother track froze my player, 4:28 into a 4:57 track. I didn't press "stop" this time, so I can access the debug menu if that's any help?
20:08:43darklessusing the daily snapshot from today on an H140
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20:13:02bluebrother^Slasheri: is tagcache rebuilding the complete cache upon disk changes? I just changed some tags and it seems to scan the complete disk
20:15:49Slasheribluebrother^: no, it should just update the changed files (at the moment only new files are detected)
20:17:25bluebrother^hmm, strange. Tagcache shows me a progress (in the debug window) but I haven't forced a rebuild.
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20:18:22Slasheribluebrother^: new files are scanned automatically if dircache is enabled and tagcache has been loaded to ram
20:19:11bluebrother^hmm. I have dircache enabled and tagcache in ram. I just changed some broken Vorbis comments and unplugged the player.
20:19:36Slasheribluebrother^: then you need to remove all tagcache files to force a full rebuild
20:20:02bluebrother^doesn't the "force rebuild" do this?
20:20:22Slasherinope, it still just scans the new files
20:20:47Slasherihmm, maybe we could make that option a little smarter..
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20:23:00lostlogicdarkless: please use a CVS snapshot, nto a daily.
20:23:25lostlogicBagder: I think someone already asked this, but what's the point of dailies?
20:24:30bluebrother^you could scan for changed files. I think the "force rebuild" implies somewhat all files to be scanned again.
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20:40:09amiconnlostlogic: Somehow audio playback in the sim doesn't work at all now.
20:40:25amiconnTried all of debian-amd64, debian-x86 and cygwin...
20:40:59amiconnIt starts the wps, but doesn't start playing and time stays at 0:00
20:41:15amiconnStop will bring you back to the browser
20:43:16pondlifeHmm, is the mutex mod assuming that the mutex status will default to false?
20:43:38pondlifeThere is a mutex init call, wonder if it's not always happening?
20:43:58amiconnI don't think it's the mutex
20:44:24amiconnI tried cvs from this morning on cygwin, with the same result
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20:48:17amiconnFurthermore, the mutex mod implements the exact same mutex mechanism as the rockbox core (minus thread sleeping, of course)
20:49:29pondlifeamiconn: Do you have your english.voice in place still?
20:50:14pondlifeTry removing/renaming it.... and see if that makes any difference
20:50:23pondlife(Restart the sim too.)
20:50:27amiconnNot on all 3 boxes though
20:50:37pondlifeAh, red herring then
20:51:16pondlifeI get a codec failure if the voice file is there but it's probably because I'm mid-hack.
20:51:25amiconnVoice works (with the crash), so it can't be an sdl problem either
20:52:13amiconnHmm, strange, now it works on cygwin
20:52:27amiconn(with the voice files renamed to a different extension)
20:52:41*amiconn goes check on both debian boxes
20:53:14amiconnNo voice file at all on debian-x86 ...
20:54:19amiconn...and none on the amd64 either
20:56:07pondlifeOK - I'm back to CVS and I get audio playback fine without english.voice.
20:56:25pondlifeBut with your english.voice in place I always get codec failure.
20:56:29*amiconn restarts one box
20:56:42pondlifeAll under Cygwin
20:57:40amiconnSame here...
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21:03:04pondlifeamiconn: Do you see Codec Failure?
21:03:13amiconnyes, after some seconds
21:03:43pondlifeThis lang file is a little larger than the old (langv1) one I was using, could that be relevant?
21:04:15amiconnYou mean voice? No, it shouldn't.
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21:10:14amiconnOk, now it's working again on my debian machines. Turned out sdl doesn't like fiddling with its audio output choice (alsa vs. esd vs. oss) without rebooting
21:10:53amiconnHowever, there are performance problems in the sdl sim on linux. Audio callback running out of data...
21:11:53amiconnThis is worse on my amd64 than on my x86, although the former is the faster machine.
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21:19:49amiconnHmm. On linux, trying to play music with english.voice present leads to a segfault of a sub thread (codec thread?), and a totally frozen rockboxui.
21:19:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:20:06amiconnOnly kill -9 manages to remove it
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21:21:10amiconnHowever, entering the menu (i.e. trying to actually output voice) leads to an instant segfault of the whole app
21:23:10Mikachusdl has some handlers for segfaults and sigterm that sometimes don't work so well, i think..
21:23:18pondlifeI've got a fix for the segfault I think
21:23:37pondlifeDoesn't make any difference to the codec failure though.
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21:25:49pondlifeI mean the menu segfault
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21:39:09sharpei am hometh.
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21:44:46MinuoAre there instructions anywhere on install rockbox on an iPod Mini 2g?
21:45:17Minuoyour wiki instructions have it for the 4g, color, nano and video
21:45:47sharpethey're probably the same basic steps.
21:45:53crashdyou should be able to adapt the instructions for the mini
21:45:57MinuoI know ipod_fw has the -g for the mini
21:46:13Minuothats what I tried to do, but I don't have a bootloader-mini.bin
21:46:53Minuoand I don't know if I should try the bootloader for a different ipod, I'm not sure how simaler they are
21:46:56amiconnMinuo: has bootloader-mini2g.bin
21:47:40Minuowow, sorry
21:47:45MinuoI can't read
21:48:16amiconnUse ipod_fw -g mini -o rockboot.bin -i apple_os.bin bootloader-mini2g.bin
21:48:37*amiconn should add that info
21:54:20darklesslostlogic: why should I use the latest CVS when it didn't contain any changes but tagcache handling and sdl sim changes?
21:55:06darklessI'll be happy to test it, I just didn't see anything that looked remotely as changes to the playback routines
21:55:36amiconnMinuo: Info added, thatks for reporting that it was missing
21:55:47Minuothats for the help
21:55:49Minuothat worked
21:56:08Minuothough it might be a good idea to add to the beginning of the instructions to clear out your existing music
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21:56:43Minuobecause thats not being happy with me right now
21:57:17amiconnThat shouldn't be necessary, although I couldn't test before
21:57:29crashdwell, rockbox doesnt support itunes database
21:57:42Minuowell I didn't clear my itunes music, so all that music on is there wasting space
21:57:50amiconnMy ipod was empty before, and I didn't install itunes or any other itunesdb compatible program
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21:58:38amiconnMinuo: You can use rockbox' tagcache to index and browse your music directly from itunes' directory
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21:58:57sharpethere was an advertisement... for a toy than went at, "300 scale miles per hour!!!"
21:59:12sharpei'm going to figure out how fast that is.
21:59:12Minuothats not the issue - there was already music on my ipod, which was wasting space because it wasn't accessable to rockbox
21:59:15MinuoI cleared it
21:59:22crashdah, well as amiconn says, you can use tagcache
21:59:25crashdto index and play it
21:59:28Minuojust saying you might want to make a note and save some other people the hassle
21:59:45Mikachuyou don't HAVE TO clear it
21:59:52Minuooh, ok
22:00:16pondlifeAnother silly question - where does the output from logf go?
22:00:28sharpethin air.
22:00:28Mikachui think it goes on the remote lcd
22:00:41sharpenot thick air, but thin. :D
22:00:45pondlifeNo disk file then?
22:01:03Mikachumaybe that too
22:01:09Mikachuthe name would suggest it
22:01:31amiconnpondlife:On target, it goes to the remote lcd (on iriver), and a ram buffer
22:01:46amiconnYou can view & save this buffer from the debug menu
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22:03:49pondlifeamiconn: Thanks
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22:05:54pondlifeBut of course, there's no debug menu on the sim...
22:06:11pondlifeI should have specified logf on the simulator.
22:06:23warthawgPaul_The_Nerd is an Austinite!
22:06:41pondlifestderr.txt maybe...?
22:07:13Paul_The_Nerdwarhawg: Yessir, I am.
22:07:20pondlife"failed to open for write: archos/_temp_codec.dll
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22:08:38amiconnpondlife: On the sim, lgf() and debugf() output go to stderr or stdout (dn't remember exactly)
22:09:00pondlifeThanks, I think I've found what I was after.
22:09:11amiconnFor some reason, SDL doesn't manage to write directly to the console in cygwin, so it creates 2 text files instead
22:09:26warthawgPaul_The_Nerd, one of these Thursdays, maybe you can come to the LUG meeting downtown and talk about RockBox
22:10:19Paul_The_Nerdwarthawg: Oooh... LUG meetings. I should do that sometime.
22:11:08warthawggreat, we meet every thursday at 7:30 in the city of austin offices at waller creek, on 10th street, directions at
22:12:08Paul_The_NerdI've been meaning to find out if there's a LUG here anyway. I mean, I certainly assumed there would be, but never got around to even looking.
22:12:32Paul_The_NerdAlso, unrelated, is there anyone with an X5 here who could do me a very quick favour?
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22:17:37amiconnlinuxstb__: r u there?
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22:26:43warthawgPaul_The_Nerd, there are several, ours has been around since the mid 90s
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22:27:17Paul_The_Nerdwarthawg: Cool. Well, since I don't have any preference, and yours is the first that came to my attention, it wins by default.
22:27:30warthawgcoolio :)
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22:37:04lostlogicdarkless: is that al that changed from the daily? If so, then it doesn't matter, but usually dailies don't have all of the latest code, so it's better to use the CVS
22:37:33darklesslostlogic: I know, but I checked the CVS before testing
22:38:11darklessI usually only load the latest daily, but if anything interesting gets committed during the day, I usually grab the latest CVS
22:38:48lostlogicok, just it sounded like you were getting bugs very easily, and iwth latest CVS I have a much ahrder time triggering the remaining playback bugs
22:39:34darklessI just let the player run unattended... Each time it froze in a lengthy track, about 4 mins into it
22:40:20lostlogicdarkless: ah, yeah, I think I have a bug mentioned on my wiki page about badness with long track handling.
22:41:00 Part Paul_The_Nerd
22:41:08darklessah, ok.
22:43:57pondlifelostlogic: Sim playback is failing with codec failure if voice files are in use. This is happening because sim_codec_load_ram is attempting to create _temp_codec.dll while it is still in use. Is there a test somewhere that should prevent an attempt to load a codec if the same one is already loaded?
22:46:20pondlifeI guess for crossfeed or voice, rockbox needs to support at least 2 different codecs at the same time - perhaps _temp_codec.dll needs to be scrapped (or at least use the codec name)?
22:47:29*amiconn found another slight tweak for the iriver remote lcd driver.
22:48:04amiconnpondlife: I think voice codec loading shouldn't use sim_codec_load_ram()
22:48:48amiconnOn target, rockbox supports 2 codecs by swapping them into place, and interlocking the threads
22:49:09amiconnIn the sim, plugins and codecs are shared objects / DLLs
22:50:02pondlifeHmm, well it is using it at the moment (well, something is!)
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22:50:30amiconnIt should be possible to keep the interlocking as-is, just the codecs need to be loaded in parallel instead of swapping them back & forth
22:51:09pondlifeamiconn: I've got to go now, but maybe you'd like to look at
22:51:45lostlogicpondlife: it only uses 2 codecs at once
22:51:52lostlogiccrossfade is done by prebuffering the data
22:51:55amiconnWe might switch to 2 truely separate codecs on target as well. The current swapping approach has advantages, but also some hard-to-solve implications
22:52:06pondlifeamiconn: This fixes the voice menu crash, but I have only tested it on the H300 sim so far. I will test on the H300 device and Recorder V1 tomorrow.
22:52:54amiconnAdvantages: (1) voice can (in theory) use any codec that's supported for audio. (2) voice codec can use IRAM.
22:54:03amiconnImplications: (1) Handling codec swap adds complexity. (2) The swap itself takes some time. (3) Trying to use standard menus in plugins with voice enabled will crash if the plugin uses IRAM
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23:12:37sharpejust wrote another 110 lines to handle the configuration...
23:16:31goffa_doh.. just missed paul
23:16:40goffa_wonder if he figured out what he needed about the x5
23:16:46goffa_< Paul_The_Nerd> Also, unrelated, is there anyone with an X5 here who
23:16:46goffa_ could do me a very quick favour?
23:16:49goffa_saw that
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23:18:36TeaSeaI have a quick question, might be kinda silly, but I can't find anything pertaining to it by RTFMing :)
23:18:54sharpewhat would your question be?
23:19:33goffa_after reading about the austin lug, i just wish there was one close to me
23:19:36TeaSeawrt the tag cache, if you did a massive file reorganisation of all your songs, will forcing a tag cache update delete all entries that HAD moved and put in the new ones?
23:19:38goffa_<- lives in bfe
23:20:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:20:31sharpesomething along the lines of that, i would think.
23:21:04TeaSeaIf you really wanted to do a total redo of the cache, whereabouts is it stored?
23:21:06peturtag cache will see this because it uses dircache afaik - no need to foorce it
23:21:15peturin the rockbox dir
23:21:18TeaSeapetur: Ahh.
23:21:33TeaSeaSo also this means any new files you add will automatically be detected and added?
23:21:44peturthat's the idea
23:21:51TeaSeaAwesome stuff.
23:21:55sharpe/.rockbox/.glyphcache if i'm right.
23:22:17sharpeeh, i thought i was wrong anyway.
23:22:35petura glyph is a part of a font!
23:22:52TeaSeaOh also, i'm running 20060411 CVS for the X5 atm, are playlisting options on the ID3 database mode broken temporarily? The menus and options appear fine, but every time I tell it to add a song or artist from the ID3 database to the playlist, it doesn't do anything.
23:22:54sharpei know... i just never used or looked at the tagcache...
23:23:02sharpeso i wouldn't know
23:23:22sharpei'll just stop trying to help and get back to work on the c64 emulator.
23:24:13peturTeaSea: can't tell as I'm not using tagcache
23:24:23TeaSeaNo probs.
23:24:30peturnot until I get my virtual directories :)
23:24:40TeaSeaTo be honest I think i'll turn it off anyway.
23:25:01TeaSeaMy music's easier to go through in filebrowser mode. Letter/Artist/Album/Track arranged :P
23:25:20TeaSeaApart from that though, keep up the awesome work guys. Just tried it out yesterday and I was incredibly impressed :)
23:25:23petursame here
23:28:19TeaSeaI know this is weird but rockbox has me addicted to Sudoku :D
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