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#rockbox log for 2006-04-14

00:00:10Mikachugerman ipod owners must be the worst
00:00:28luckzdo you mainly frequent the ipod section or are you (rightfully) implying that apple customers in general are of the less computer-savy kind?
00:00:54amiconnMikachu: ???
00:01:06luckzHyperbit: because ipod owners are part of the "it has to work and I'm not at fault" crowd while germans generally all fail at english
00:01:13luckzbad combination, I tell you.
00:01:27amiconnluckz: ?????
00:01:32luckzamiconn: hy2u
00:01:37Paul_The_Nerdluckz: I'm basically the Angel of Answers in the forum. I try to support as many people wherever there are questions. I know the Ipod port is one of the least mature ports (and thusly more new users) but I have to say the quality of the questions, and the ability of the users to provide useful information when given explicit instructions is markably lower in the Ipod portion of our forums.
00:01:44Mikachuamiconn: not everyone, only in general :)
00:02:04Hyperbit.whois Hyperbit /Address:
00:02:07luckzamiconn: what exactly does your question mark group tell us?
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00:02:58luckz00:02:05 < Hyperbit> .whois Hyperbit /Address: <- oui?
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00:04:27Hyperbit5 german in here ;)
00:04:31Mikachuamiconn: this was how i reached my conclusion, <Paul_The_Nerd> luckz: I see it surprisingly often in the Rockbox forums (primarily in the Ipod section) + <luckz> Paul: it's a natural trait of germans online, if you haven't noticed. the whole accurate problem description thing.
00:04:50Mikachuit was also sort of a joke
00:05:03luckza rather obvious one at that
00:05:35 Quit quobl (SendQ exceeded)
00:05:51luckz00:04:28 < Hyperbit> 5 german in here ;) <- how do you reach that count exactly, btw?
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00:06:04cariniHow is replaygain preamp + clipping protection any different than simply turning up the volume?
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00:07:04luckzcarini: I assume it's turning up the volume in a way that prevents clipping?
00:07:19Hyperbithmm some years ago i had learnd to calc 1+1+1+1+1 ;D
00:07:20 Quit Fitzsimmons (Remote closed the connection)
00:07:23Hyperbitchanel stats
00:07:51luckzHyperbit: I manually counted at least six though. and that was without looking properly. thus I wonder how you reached your magic five.
00:07:58Matixshello, where i can find which packages i need to compile rockbox under Ubuntu?
00:08:06Paul_The_Nerdcarini: Well, preamp is applied as part of the replaygain process, and the clipping protection only applies to it, whereas the volume I think is applied by a hardware method.
00:08:07Hyperbithehe K ;)
00:08:38Paul_The_NerdMatixs: The CrossCompiler wiki page tells you which compiler versions you need, I think
00:09:03cariniPaul_The_Nerd: Yeah, okay. So it basically just shifts the "target" for the replaygain.
00:09:37Paul_The_NerdBasically, yes.
00:09:39cariniI.e., it doesn't do any kind of compression.
00:09:51Paul_The_NerdI'm not sure how the "prevent clipping" portion of it is handled though
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00:10:07Hyperbituhhh 0oclock ... Snoozzle doozle... good night
00:10:34MatixsPaul_The_Nerd: Thaks :)
00:11:04Paul_The_NerdMatixs: You'll also need SDL for the simulators, and tetex and tetex-extra (or something like that) for the Manual
00:11:12MatixsPaul_The_Nerd: *thank you
00:11:24Myth1guys I need some help: I added a new codec, type "sid". I added things to metadata.c id3.c and created sid.c. When I select my sid file I see that the metadata is parsed but the codec is not loaded and I get "no file". any ideas what could cause this?
00:11:33 Part webguest89
00:12:54cariniPaul_The_Nerd: It looks like it reduces the total gain (including pregain) using the peak sample value in the tags to avoid clipping. I.e., it's not doing "hard limited", so no dynamics compression is happening.
00:13:16MatixsPaul_The_Nerd: i compile rockbox under cygwin already, but under ubuntu this is slightly different.
00:13:16 Quit lee-qid_ ("Trillian (")
00:14:19Paul_The_Nerdcarini: Ah, so it checks the track_peak value and reduces the total gain so that the peak never reaches/passes 0?
00:14:41cariniLooks like it.
00:14:47Paul_The_NerdMatixs: Aaah. Well, it's actually exactly the same if you used Cygwin before the packages were available. ;-) But good luck. :)
00:14:55scottderOk here is a silly question...whats the diffence between the daily builds and the CVS builds?
00:15:16Paul_The_Nerdcarini: That's what I would've guessed it did, but I figured I shouldn't say it because it seems when I say "I'm guessing X does Y" people often interpret it as "X does Y. This is fact." :)
00:15:28Paul_The_Nerdscottder: Anywhere from Nothing to 23:59
00:15:42Paul_The_Nerdscottder: The CVS builds are made every time a change is committed to the CVS repository.
00:15:43 Quit herz42 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:15:52scottderAhh ok
00:16:03Paul_The_NerdAnd now I must go. Meeting in 45 minutes, and traffic may be bad.
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00:19:41MatixsBye :)
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01:09:30Aveanyone? ipod emulator keys, I'm lost
01:09:40Aveer simulator..
01:10:02amiconnRun it with ./rockboxui −−background
01:10:50Aveaah, thanks
01:11:14Mikachuthat's what i almost said but i was less helpful :)
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01:12:10AveI'm running it via ssh-tunneled X with display on laptop that doesnt have proper numeric keypad, so its a bit difficult
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01:15:09Aveis apple aware of these developments and/or have they changed something like the bootloader code or something in the firmware to stop rockbox from happening?
01:15:18Aveor any other manufacturers for that matter
01:15:29Mikachuit's not much they can do with software updates
01:15:41Mikachusince you can install it from the emergency disk mode which is on rom i think
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01:16:26amiconnA new on-disk firmware could update the flash rom
01:16:57Mikachuthe rom is flash on ipods?
01:17:21amiconnThe rom is actually flash eeprom on all targets
01:17:41Mikachuhm, i will try to remember not to update the apple software then
01:18:09amiconnJust most of the old archos players, and a fraction of the archos recorders have flash roms that are not in-circuit flashable
01:18:24amiconn(But there are pin-compatible roms which are)
01:18:35Mikachui take it no one has figured out the interface for ipod flash roms then
01:18:44amiconnThere is no special interface
01:18:52amiconnIt should be quite simple
01:19:08amiconnIts just a command sequence that's written to special addresses
01:19:09Aveamiconn: so in theory its possible to screw up ipod for good if you happen to overwrite the flash rom?
01:19:18amiconnFor my mini 2g, I even know the flash rom type
01:19:38amiconnAve: Yes, but it's very unlikely for that to happen
01:20:11amiconnYou need to send the special command sequence to switch to programming mode
01:20:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:21:01AveI recall stuff like AA,55,00,... for amd flash chips..
01:21:22amiconnThe Mini 2G flash rom is an SST39VF800A:
01:21:23Avewell thats writing directly to address bus and you have to set stuff like cs and whatnot beforehand..
01:21:58amiconnI'll add flash rom type detection to the ipods, the same way as on archos, iriver,...
01:22:08Aveyou guys happen to know how common these chirping sounds and other audio anomalies are in portable players?
01:22:32Aveand what causes them, my guess is on poor voltage regulation and so on, hardware design faults
01:24:29amiconnAve: This AA,55... stuff seems common for all flash roms. Only difference is between flash roms with 8bit and 16bit data bus.
01:24:46Mikachuso you could dump the flash rom pretty easily?
01:25:03Mikachuif you were the adventurous type
01:25:23amiconnDumping is the most simple thing
01:25:35amiconnYou just need to know the address and length
01:26:05amiconnThen open a file, and write(fh, (void *)rom_start, rom_length);
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01:28:04mirakthe picture viewer is nice :D
01:28:10mirakanyone done work on video ?
01:28:44Avemaybe using sdl+ffmpeg?
01:28:56AveI have absolutely no idea what is possible on the target platforms..
01:31:20Avebut I see ffmpeg code already being used in the source so
01:32:23Avemy holy grail is affordable portable player with vorbis support that has decent audio quality with no annoying sound-sideorders
01:32:55Avetoo bad most el cheapo players are based on the older generation sigmatel chip which doesnt do vorbis at all
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01:34:04Avenew ones have some dsp core + arm cpu I think, and those are much more versatile
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01:46:34amiconnHmm. The mysterious battery drainer on H300 could indeed be a GPO of the PCF50606. Quote from the datasheet: "The GPOODx outputs allow to sink 100mA from any supply or battery voltage."
01:47:16amiconnNow it would be interesting to know what's connected to them...
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01:50:24Avechange state and see if drain stops eh?
01:52:20Aveam are you supposed to be able to load plugins in the simulator? I get error about wrong elf header
01:52:38AveI think I tried to build with x86 gcc and arm
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01:59:29MikachuAve: what do you mean "x86 gcc and arm"?
02:00:25AveI had to build cross compiler because debian doesnt have one
02:00:42Aveso, I have gcc with x86 target and gcc with arm target
02:00:52Averockbox _appears_ to compile with both?
02:01:35Mikachuyou don't want to compile the simulator with arm gcc
02:01:42Avethis is my first time mucking with this so I'm little foggy with the issues involved still
02:01:52Mikachujust put the dirs with arm-whatever-gcc in your PATH, not the one that only has gcc
02:02:00Mikachuand rockbox' build system will always do the right thing
02:02:17Aveok so that means I only append one bin-dir to path
02:02:51Mikachuyou don't want arm-elf/bin/ in your path
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02:04:29AveI installed binutils and gcc into special prefix which holds a bin-dir which has all the arm-elf-* stuff in it
02:04:40Mikachuyeah, that's the one you want in PATH
02:04:46Avesaid directory is the one included in search path before other gcc's and whatnot
02:05:24Mikachu/usr/local/ipod-chain/bin is what i have in my path
02:05:40Mikachuand it has these files in it, arm-elf-strip, arm-elf-strings, arm-elf-size, arm-elf-readelf, arm-elf-ranlib, arm-elf-objdump, arm-elf-objcopy, arm-elf-nm, arm-elf-ld, arm-elf-gcov, arm-elf-gccbug, arm-elf-gcc-4.0.2, arm-elf-gcc, arm-elf-cpp, arm-elf-c++filt, arm-elf-as, arm-elf-ar, arm-elf-addr2line
02:06:28Mikachuyou could just take it out of your path when you build the sim though
02:06:36Mikachubut it should work anyway
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02:06:44Mikachumaybe something completely different is the error
02:11:43AveI'm not getting a .rockbox directory anymore :-\
02:12:09Mikachuyou only get what you put there
02:12:58Avewell strange, but after one build I magically had one, and not inside archos dir either but above that, straight in the build dir
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02:13:39Aveah, I got it, I did "make zip" and I interrupted it and the process left it behind
02:16:13Avewell what do you know, now the plugins work
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02:18:54Aveone of the plugins is called "firmware_flash" hmmh?
02:19:45Paul_The_NerdAve: firmware_flash is for the Archos players I believe.
02:19:55Paul_The_NerdFor updating bootbox, I think
02:20:16Paul_The_NerdOr rombox, or one of those cryptically named flash-resident thingies.
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02:20:36Aveok thanks
02:20:42Avewell this is all very exciting
02:20:58AveI just might have to and get the damn nano on weekend... grr
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02:23:02Paul_The_NerdI like it on my Nano
02:24:18Avedoes it work with any nano model?
02:24:30Aveand have you had any special problems
02:25:17Mikachuonly the disk size is different
02:26:31Mikachuand 1GB is certainly enough for rockbox
02:26:32Avein reality, flash chip count or capacity
02:26:52AveI'm thinking about the 2G model
02:27:00Mikachuthat's the one i have too
02:27:05Mikachui won it, cheap bastards ;)
02:27:05Avenow I have 1G mp3 player which can seat around 13 albums in good quality
02:27:23Mikachurockbox supports ogg so you can have smaller files for the same value of quality :)
02:27:29Galoisyeah 13 albums is weak
02:27:32Aveunfortunately I encode at q7
02:27:35Galois1G should fit at least 20
02:27:41Aveand vorbis peeling is where?
02:27:42Paul_The_NerdAve: It works fine on 2g and 4g ones. I've heard no complaints about extra problems with 1g ones, but I've never personally talked to a 1g owner. I've read every post in the forums for 4 months though, and no 1g complaints.
02:27:49Galoisogg q2 is already better than lame-128k!
02:28:17Avebut I dont want to recode nor transcode anything but use as is
02:28:29Mikachunearcd quality isn't my number one concern for a portable player
02:28:48Mikachuespecially on something as small as the nano
02:28:49Aveisnt one for me either, but I'm just using the files I have
02:28:58Mikachuyou'll be happy to know i transcode 192kbps or higher to -q3 ogg
02:29:00Paul_The_NerdAve: Well, Rockbox on Nano plays Q7 vorbis fine if you don't use an equalizer. At least, it did for me.
02:29:08Aveunless vorbis bitrate peeling magically happens, I have to use the q7 ogg's
02:29:31Aveoh yeah, does rb actually implement eq for vorbis?
02:29:32GaloisA 200GB drive costs less than the mp3 player. You can rip all your CDs to flac and transcode from flac.
02:29:39Mikachueq works on pcm data
02:29:43Mikachuit would work on any codec you tried
02:29:45Aveoh really
02:29:54Paul_The_NerdAve: The EQ works on any codec.
02:30:03*Paul_The_Nerd is slow tonight, apparently
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02:30:07Mikachubut like Paul_The_Nerd said, the eq and q7 vorbis probably won't go hand in hand yet
02:30:09Avesee in the cheap crap its so easy to manipulate mp3 frequency bins rather than time domain data
02:30:40Paul_The_NerdAve: We have a full parametric equalizer. It's a lot more powerful than most cheap, or even expensive, DAPs offer you
02:30:45Aveso the rb eq is using something computationally intensive since its working in time domain
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02:31:08Paul_The_NerdWell, the main thing is that the codecs still need a lot of optimization on the Ipod.
02:31:12Mikachuthere is also "bass" and "treble" settings that should be cheaper to use
02:31:38Paul_The_NerdMikachu: Yeah, but the Bass and Treble settings suck on Ipod. I understand it's more "the hardware sucks" kinda thing though
02:31:51Mikachui didn't know they weren't software
02:32:09Paul_The_NerdBass and Treble are hardware
02:32:33Aveis rb using tremor reference implementation or is it optimized?
02:32:34Mikachuthat would explain why the settings took effect at the head of the buffer
02:32:43Mikachui think it's just tremor right now
02:32:48Galoisonly minimally optimized
02:33:04Mikachuit's faster than the mp3 decoder still though :)
02:33:07Mikachu(on ipods)
02:33:08Paul_The_NerdAve: I don't believe there's any ARM-specific opts made by the Rockbox team yet, or at least not many.
02:33:10Mikachu(i heard)
02:33:22Aveyeah I dont really have a need for eq per-se, other than to conpensate for booming bass depending on the headphones
02:33:27Paul_The_NerdAve: Some work has gone into the m68k one though, so I expect some will happen eventually
02:34:01Aveeh wow, faster vorbis decoder than mp3..
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02:34:17Avebut how sucky is the mp3 decoder then
02:34:55Paul_The_NerdAve: The main thing is that the Vorbis codec already has some ARM opts built in. The MP3 does not, (or at least has less)
02:35:44Paul_The_NerdAve: CBR MP3 works up to 320, VBR tends to work at least up to an average of ~225 or so, at least. I personally haven't tested a VBR beyond that, so I can't say with any REAL certainty.
02:36:00Avewell thats something to test for sure
02:36:27Avethat almost sounds like its near unusable, I mean mp3 really needs high bitrates if you want quality
02:36:42Paul_The_NerdWell, the main thing is that there's a lot of other things that need to be done. And there's no point in knowing what the highest bitrate VBR MP3 you can play right now is, since codec optimizations are going to happen either way.
02:36:43Ave225 isnt all that uncommon at times
02:36:45Mikachuisn't 320 the max for mp3?
02:36:55Mikachuwhy would you want an average vbr of 320 then? :)
02:37:16Avebut if decoder chokes at 225 thats gonna bite someone
02:37:29Paul_The_NerdAve: 192 CBR is often considered the transparency point. And for others who want it a bit higher, LAME preset-standard or alt-preset-standard are it, and those work.
02:38:15Paul_The_NerdAve: Let me put it this way: The Ipod firwmare's decoder choked on more of my LAME encoded MP3s than Rockbox has.
02:40:16Avehow does it deal with more intensive aac decoding then, coupled with encryption issues
02:40:25AveI'm bogled
02:40:30*Paul_The_Nerd sighs
02:40:31Mikachuthe aac decoder is not good yet, iiuc
02:40:36Paul_The_NerdAAC will be fine eventually
02:40:38Aveno I mean apple's code
02:40:40Galoisrockbox pointedly does not handle DRM-encrypted files
02:40:54AveI dont really even care about aac
02:41:07Paul_The_NerdAve: Oh, their decoder will handle MP3s that Itunes encodes fine. But if there's a big bitrate spike in an MP3, then it has issues.
02:41:22Paul_The_NerdAve: Really, the problem isn't that the ipod can't keep up. it doesn't change the CPU speed to a higher speed early enough
02:41:32Paul_The_NerdIt's pretty well documented what exactly causes the problem
02:41:41AveI'm 100% fine with the fact that rb doesnt deal with itunes material
02:41:53Paul_The_NerdOf course, if you contact apple with "Your MP3 player doesn't play all MP3s" they try to tell you "Someone made the encoder specifically not to work with the Ipod. A lot of people hate Apple."
02:41:53TeaSeaPaul_The_Nerd: Trust apple, eh? :)
02:42:16Aveeeeh no way
02:42:18Paul_The_NerdThey also accused me of pirating music when I said "I don't want to use iTunes to reencode my music."
02:42:25Paul_The_NerdThey directly accused me of it. On the phone.
02:42:32Avebut ok, watch how MS, Apple and Real are bickering, its easy to believe
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02:42:48TeaSeaPaul_The_Nerd: And do you?
02:42:49Paul_The_NerdThey said "We can only guarantee music encoded with our encoder will work." To which I responded "Then how can you sell it as an MP3 player, since MP3 is essentially a standard?"
02:43:08Paul_The_NerdTeaSea: Nope. I literally own 100% of the music on my MP3 player, either because I own the CD or it's public domain.
02:43:08GaloisI really never understood where people get the idea that apple customer support is actually good
02:43:18Aveby today's laws I'm certainly pirating music (by ripping it from my own cd's that are supposedly copy protected)
02:43:25TeaSeaPaul_The_Nerd: That's fantastic.
02:43:32GaloisPaul_The_Nerd: not to quibble, but the music industry would insist that owning the CD does not equate to owning the music
02:43:41TeaSeaI can't remember the last time I bought a CD :(
02:43:49Paul_The_NerdGalois: Okay, substitute "own" with "have a legal right to listen to"
02:43:51AveGalois: indeed
02:44:07Galoisat best, you might say apple's customer support is less atrocious than that of it's competitors
02:44:31Avehm so have you guys observed any audio anomalies in the pod output? I mean from qualitative standpoint
02:44:36Avestrange harmonics, distortions etc
02:44:46Paul_The_NerdGalois: Either way, they said "If you own the CD, re-rip it" and I said "I value quality." And they said "But you can't hear the difference." And I said "Yes, if I accept higher file sizes." And they said "So do it." And I said "Well, what about songs that I legally download, such as They Might Be Giants' free music." And they said "Umm...."
02:44:51GaloisAve: none, actually
02:44:58TeaSeaThen again there's very few songs I actually "pirate" as such.
02:45:17Galoishigher file sizes is already ridiculous. All the more reason to use rockbox.
02:45:43GaloisAve: I have some ogg files that gave playback anomalies with x86 tremor but on rockbox the anomalies went away
02:45:49Paul_The_NerdAve: There have been a few in the past, but those were always bugs and have been resolved. The audio quality, when graphed against original firmware, usually shows the two as being incredibly close (clearly there will be incredibly tiny differences in say, MP3, because we use a different version of the codec)
02:47:07Paul_The_NerdAve: And if you strive for utmost quality, there's always FLAC. Or decoded has been verified to produce bit-perfect output.
02:47:11Paul_The_NerdOur decoder
02:47:29Aveah, dang, but I'm not talking about software quality, but rather hardware quality and the analog side at that
02:47:38Avethe signal path after DAC
02:47:48Galoisthe rockbox firmware has noticeably less background noise than the original firmware
02:47:49Paul_The_NerdWell, for that you need to find reviews of the Ipod Nano
02:48:14Aveas said, I have a creative player that chirps like mad
02:48:51Mikachuheh, don't compile vorbis with -Os
02:48:54Avestrange noises (at quite low volume yet easy to distinguish) that coincide with lcd-screen updates
02:49:11Avelike gsm phone interference
02:49:17Mikachuif i raise pitch over 110% it can't keep up, with -O2 (which it is by default) i can go to 130% with no problems
02:49:23Paul_The_NerdWell, the H120 had a problem like that with the Remote, but Rockbox managed to significantly reduce that
02:49:40Paul_The_NerdI think the nano has a very very very small tick on volume changes, but it's hard to even get that to reproduce
02:49:50Avewith closed firmware, what can you do, and if the problem is in the hardware design itself, youre SOL
02:49:54angelashesdoes rockboy come preinstalled with rockbox?
02:50:04GaloisI've never noticed any ticks on my ipod nano
02:50:20Paul_The_Nerdangelashes: Yes. Read the PluginRockboy wiki page for use instructions
02:50:25Mikachulostlogic: my codec buffer count went negative now
02:50:27angelashesthank you
02:50:28Paul_The_NerdGalois: Try pausing music, and then adjusting the volume
02:50:36Mikachulostlogic: just playing a single file on pitch 146%
02:50:37Paul_The_NerdMikachu: Yes! I'm not the only one.
02:50:41AvePaul_The_Nerd: you mean ticks on volume changes when you actually change volume?
02:50:51Mikachulostlogic: it popped back to positive now with an audible seek
02:51:09Mikachulostlogic: wasn't seeking or skipping in the file
02:51:12Aveall this time I thought rockboy was typo for rockbox..
02:51:16Mikachulostlogic: not sure what else info i can give
02:51:32angelashesnope rockboy is so you can play gameboy games
02:51:34Mikachunow to see if O3 and O1 are better or worse
02:51:46Paul_The_NerdAve: Only sometimes. I think it depends on the impedence of the earphones to pick it up.
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02:52:03MikachuO2 goes to 146% or so, for my reference
02:52:26angelasheswhere do i put the .gb and .gbc files
02:52:59AvePaul_The_Nerd: so that'd be just random transient effect, not something to worry aboot
02:53:12Paul_The_NerdAve: I'd say don't worry about it.
02:53:41AveI need to get my handson actual ipod nano before I get one
02:53:49Avewith my headphones ..
02:53:58MikachuO1 looks the same as O2 nearly
02:54:03Paul_The_NerdAve: I think someone else was complaining about a thummmm sound in the right channel that may have coincided with HD spins or something, but that was also with a specific AMP and other things.
02:54:19Aveluckily nano doesnt have a hd to spin
02:55:14Galoisokay, yes, there is a very light tapping when you change the volume on pause at the highest volume levels
02:55:26Galoisit's barely audible over the already low background hiss
02:55:27MikachuO3 also looks the same, so only Os is crap then
02:55:50Mikachubut no magic speed gains :)
02:55:51Galoison sealed in-ear isolation headphones :-D
02:56:19Paul_The_NerdGalois: I felt that I should offer any information I could. :) I could hear them on my cheap Koss KTXPRO1s, but I haven't ever heard it on my PX100s.
02:56:55Avesmall tapping on volume changes mean squat, my player emits this noise all the time! and the volume of it is constant regardless of the volume level, go figure
02:57:04Mikachulostlogic: actually it looks like it does the -codec buffer thing every time it restarts the current track
02:57:46AveGalois: I have in-hear headphones as well and you can hear all kinds of things even without wanting to
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02:58:35GaloisAve: well this tapping noise is proportional to the volume and even at the highest volumes it's barely audible on pause
02:59:29Mikachui can hear a slight tapping noise on changing volume with pause on if i go around +4 to +6
02:59:31Aveits prefectly acceptable
02:59:43Mikachuif i press my earphones against my ear
03:00:01Paul_The_NerdYeah, your volume should NEVER be above 0 anyway
03:00:23Mikachuthere might be times where it's useful
03:00:28angelasheswhat is the db when permanent hearing damage starts to happen
03:00:29Mikachulike disturbing class
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03:00:32Paul_The_Nerd"Oh, yes, I do want to clip my music."
03:00:38Mikachuangelashes: 130, but we are talking relative dB
03:00:39Aveipod uses dB-based volume control?
03:00:46Mikachuangelashes: or so
03:00:57Paul_The_Nerdangelashes: It depends entirely upon how long you listen to it, as well. Lower levels can cause it if exposed for long enough periods
03:01:00Mikachuangelashes: for instant damage, anything over 100 will be bad for prolonged periods iirc
03:01:00Paul_The_NerdAve: Indeed it does.
03:01:12Mikachuif you are exposed to 200dB or so i think you die instantly
03:01:13Avewith how large steps? 1dB is quite a lot
03:01:26Aveholy crap
03:01:34Aveah but db has more levels, right?
03:01:58Galoiswhat are you mumbling about? the ipod volume control has more volume gradations than any other mp3 player I've ever used
03:01:59Mikachui think rockbox is adjusting in the smallest steps the hardware lets it, but i haven't looked ta the code
03:02:39Paul_The_NerdAve: 1db is quite a lot until you start getting lower in volume.
03:02:56Paul_The_NerdAve: You start at 0db, and I believe it goes down to -77 or so.
03:03:07Mikachuit depends on the target
03:03:17Paul_The_NerdMikachu: Yes, but we're talking specifically about the Nano for Ave.
03:03:31Paul_The_NerdWhich actually goes up to +6, but anything above 0 can result in clipping
03:03:41*Paul_The_Nerd wanders off
03:03:43 Part Paul_The_Nerd
03:03:51Mikachurockbox writes the config sector every time you change the volume one step?
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03:04:10Avewear out the flash rom in no time! aiee
03:04:26Galoiseven if it did (which I doubt), flash roms are not so stupid these days
03:04:37Aveyears ago typical flash chip could sustain about million rewrites, I suppose this number has gone up
03:04:46Galoisevery flash rom made since like 2001 implements hardware sector balancing
03:04:48Mikachuright, it does an ata_delayed_write in the end
03:04:51Mikachuso it should be alright
03:05:04Mikachuit won't actually write it to disk every time
03:05:11angelashesi wonder if the real video ipod will be flash to have a longer battery life
03:05:37Mikachusure, you can fits lots of videos on flash
03:06:03angelashesyeah and the chips are getting so freaking small and with a lot of space
03:06:24Aveoh yeah, is the clickwheelthing working on rockbox yet?
03:06:50AveI was looking around the source for wheel stuff and there is something but I cant really tell
03:06:58Galoisno clicking for the wheel
03:07:27angelashesAve: you actually use the click wheel
03:08:14Avewas that a question?
03:08:23AveI dont even own an ipod, yet
03:08:31Mikachuyes, it looks like the volume is in 1dB steps in hardware... but the code is a bit confusing
03:08:37Mikachusince it handles lots of hardware with ifdefs
03:08:42angelashesyeah i forgot the ? mark
03:09:01MikachuAve: the wheel works fine
03:09:12angelasheshe meant the click
03:09:12MikachuAve: it doesn't make beep noises in cvs yet though, but we know how to do it
03:09:23Mikachuangelashes: probably not
03:09:36Mikachuit's called the click wheel because it's a wheel but you can click play/menu/<-/-> on it too
03:09:41Mikachunot related to sounds
03:09:54angelashesi got ya now
03:10:14Mikachui hear the first ipods had separate buttons for that
03:10:24Mikachuwhich would be good for games
03:10:45angelashesyeah it would
03:10:54Mikachuwould give like 14 buttons, if you use 8 areas on the wheel
03:11:01Mikachui can't count, 13
03:11:21angelashesthe wheel didn't have buttons
03:11:28Mikachubut you can touch it
03:11:39angelashesit was a play, back, forward, menu buttons
03:11:43Mikachuwhich is my whole point
03:11:51Mikachu4 buttons + select + 8 areas on the wheel = 13
03:12:14angelashesi see now
03:12:26Aveis it a strain gauge or what
03:12:29Mikachuyou can get the position on the wheel when touched if you want
03:12:39Mikachuit's a capacitance meter i think someone told me
03:12:43Mikachuor rather 96 of them
03:13:05Avebut if it works
03:13:07angelashesone the battery test does it tell you how much time is left on the battery
03:13:10Mikachuif you are very careful, you will see it registers without actually touching the wheel physically
03:13:14Mikachuyou can just hover above the surface
03:13:27Mikachuangelashes: look in the debug menu -> view battery
03:14:34angelashesi will look when it done charging doom was pretty popular at school today i went from 100% charge to 7% in 2 hours
03:15:15Avedoes the usb charging require something special from usb-port, like some laptops have "high drain" ports
03:15:37Mikachui think it will charge on most ports, but it would be faster on high drain ports
03:15:47Mikachubut i think you have to boot apple for it to actually go faster
03:15:58Mikachurockbox only uses the low mode because i don't think anyone knows how to switch
03:16:03Mikachuthis is all based on hearsay
03:16:28angelashesi did mine witht he wall charged but i had to boot in apple fromware cause it would go usb then restart to rockbox and do it over and over
03:17:52Avehm so charging IS controlled by firmware to some extent
03:18:02Mikachudon't take my word for it
03:18:03Avethe wiki lets you believe its all hardware
03:18:34angelashesyeah just charge it in the apple firmware
03:18:58Mikachuwell there are those extarnal battery packs that you might want to use with rockbox
03:19:10angelashesforgot about those
03:19:12Mikachuhooray, extarnal
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03:19:25angelashesi want to make and altoid battery pack
03:19:40Galoisthe ipod nano has a separate built-in firmware that can handle basic usb charging
03:20:05angelasheshas anyones nano screen broken?
03:20:20Mikachubroken how?
03:20:35angelashesjust show black
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03:20:48angelashesand rainbow
03:20:55Avewonder if they have changed into more scratch resistant material by now
03:20:56angelashesif you ever seen an broken lcd screen
03:21:02GaloisI heard you can break the screen by driving over the player with a car. twice.
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03:21:20angelashesmy friend put his nano in his pocket and the screen broke
03:22:05GaloisI suppose a broken screen is yet another reason why voice UI support in rockbox is useful....
03:22:20angelashesi need to try it
03:22:29angelashesis the voice easy to setup up
03:22:54GaloisI think so, I mean, blind people have done it ...
03:23:22AveI can imagine breaking a screen if you put it on PANTS pocket and sit on special way so it bends appropriately
03:23:29Avelarge forces present
03:23:49Avehell, I broke my palm pilot screen like that
03:24:18angelashesmy pocketpc would lock up all the time
03:25:29angelasheswhat are some of the features coming out for rockbox over time?
03:26:11Mikachui'm not sure voice works 100% correctly right now on ipods
03:27:07Galoisin my experience it works well enough that you can rely on it most of the time
03:28:19Mikachui think the voice files are not up to date
03:28:51Galoisthat's true, some of the menu items have no voices yet
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03:28:59Galoisthe important stuff is voiced :)
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03:37:14whatboutbobhey all, i have a very random question: does anyone know how to disconnect the h120 from windows XP if the little icon doesn't appear?
03:38:24whatboutbobi'm in a net cafe and i've just written a bunch of stuff to the iriver, then realised they've disabled...errr...i think its the task manager so i can't disconnect it.
03:39:00whatboutbobi'm nervous about just pulling the plug cos after writing to it cos i've heard it stuffs the hdd...and i *really* need the unit functioning this w/e...
03:39:05TeaSeawhatboutbob: Just wait a minute or two, make sure there's no data being written now
03:39:15whatboutbobTeaSea: there's not.
03:39:16TeaSeaThen it should be OK to disconnect.
03:39:38TeaSeaHonestly, all the "disconnect" button does is finish all writing and unmount the drive.
03:39:54whatboutbobTeaSea: mate. really appreciate it.
03:40:17TeaSeaI use linux, and there isn't any kind of "disconnect" thing, so all I do is unmount the drive and it's done.
03:40:18TeaSeawhatboutbob: OH
03:40:23TeaSeaIf you're REALLY concerned
03:40:28TeaSeaIs my computer available?
03:40:32whatboutbobcan i unmount the drive from the prompt i wonder?
03:40:43TeaSeaThere should be a safely disconnect option for the iRiver thing there.
03:40:48whatboutbobscratch that...can't get to it.
03:41:24whatboutbobone more q: there's no format option in rockbox is there?
03:41:58whatboutbobif my drive's saying its full when its not, then i'll need to jump into iriver f/w format it, then reload rockbox?
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03:44:28MikachuTeaSea: incorrect, you should do eject /dev/whatever
03:44:52TeaSeaMikachu: I don't have eject, and have no intentions of getting it. Unmounting works fine.
03:45:10TeaSeaBut thanks for correcting me :)
03:46:04Mikachuit will slightly lower the chance of the linux usb stack getting confused
03:46:16TeaSeaMikachu: Ah.
03:46:27TeaSeaMikachu: Can you describe that in a bit more detail please? :P
03:47:36Mikachui just now if i unplug it, it will sometimes fuck up and never let go of sda*
03:47:50TeaSeaMikachu: Really? I've never encountered that before.
03:48:03TeaSeaIt happens if I just unplug without unmounting.
03:48:12TeaSeaBut if I unmount, never happens.
03:48:17Mikachui guess the chances are bigger if you plug/unplug it 40 times per day
03:48:27 Join VoltageX [0] (
03:48:49VoltageXhi, I"m having issues compiling rockbox cvs... I'm wondering if it's me or the cvs build
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03:50:29whatboutbobthanks again guys. i'm off to a music festival. later.
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03:50:35TBoyI was wondering if anybody who with the permission to edit comments on the tracker
03:51:00TBoywould be able to look and remove some unnecessary post on my latest request
03:51:15TBoyit seems it got out of hands
03:51:38TBoyand ended in this feud
03:52:44TBoyI know it may seem unnecessary to remove go through the hassle of doing so
03:53:10TBoybut it just doesn't serve any purpos since it's basically the same thing being repeated over and over again
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03:57:06angelasheshow do i make the font bigger in rockbox?
03:57:41TBoythere's no way to make fonts bigger in rockbox, you'll just have to pick a larger one
03:58:08angelashesok so just dl a custom off the site?
03:58:19TBoywell there are a few included
03:58:34TBoyif you go into settings on your player
03:58:48TBoyand enter general setting -> display
03:58:57TBoyit should say something about fonts
04:02:10angelasheswhat is cpu frequency changing?
04:03:24Mikachuthe cpu is run slower when it's not needed
04:03:25Mikachuto save battery
04:06:27angelashesmy frequency is at 75000000 with boost_counter: 1 so is that what it should be?
04:07:11VoltageXMikachu: do you know if the current cvs build compiles?
04:08:24VoltageXo.O it doesn't compile for me
04:10:17Mikachuthen you are Doing Something Wrong [tm]
04:10:28angelasheswhat does codec failure mean?
04:10:36VoltageXcc1 doesn't exist
04:10:50VoltageXat least not m68k-cc1
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04:17:40VoltageXMikachu: you still around? I'm gonna pastebin the error
04:18:45Mikachufeel free, i don't know why you're asking me though
04:19:01VoltageXbecause you're active :S
04:21:23Mikachushrug, try installing it again and follow the instructions better
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04:23:05angelasheshow do i find the .gb file?
04:23:41Mikachuyou forgot where you put it?
04:24:12 Quit midkay (Client Quit)
04:24:25angelashesit in my game folder
04:25:00angelashesbut now i just need to know how to get it all started
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05:38:43lostlogicMikachu: so any time it does a rebuffer-and-seek it goes negative on the buffer used?
05:38:56Mikachuat least when there's only one song in the playlist
05:38:57 Quit Doomed (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:39:05Mikachuand it's the codec buffer
05:40:38lostlogicyeah, I know, the compressed audio buffer.
05:42:40Mikachucan you reproduce?
05:46:02lostlogicMikachu: haven't tried yet, wanted to fix an easy bug that paul sent to me while I was away first.
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05:46:36lostlogictrying now, fixed his bug :)
05:47:37Hueyhas anybody sucessfully patched a 5G ipod "Iboy"?
05:48:51lostlogicMikachu: so was this a skip-to-beginning that caused the negative codec buffer?
05:49:01lostlogicMikachu: because I just caused a rebuffer of current and it didn't happen
05:54:01Mikachui was sitting in view audio thread seeing if different O options affected decoding speed
05:54:12Mikachuand when the song restarted the codec buffer went to negative for a while
05:54:34Mikachu-Os makes it a _lot_ slower btw :)
05:55:09 Quit BHSPitLappy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:55:33lostlogicah, you were on a single song playlist, repeating, I missed that somehwo ;90
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06:08:27Hueyhas anybody?
06:09:13Mikachuwill this sentence gradually be completed?
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06:18:04Hueyhas anybody gotten Iboy to work
06:18:07Hueywith the patch
06:18:12Hueyfor the 5G ipod
06:18:38Mikachuiboy sounds like ipodlinux
06:18:41Mikachubut i'm going to bed
06:18:42Mikachugood luck
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06:22:45speacial_edhuey: the patch has worked but i hear it doesnt work very well
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06:47:03sharpehmm... i think i am slowly becoming dyslexic.
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06:55:07sharpewell, bye people. won't be back until sunday or monday.
06:55:19lostlogicbest have a working c64 emu when you get back...
06:55:22lostlogicI mean have a good weekend
06:55:39sharpeheh, i'm not feeling to great, mentally and physically, right now.
06:55:57lostlogicwell hope you feel better.
06:55:58daurnimatorwhat software runs in/on rockbox?
06:55:58sharpewait, emotionally too.
06:56:08sharpeyeah, me too.
06:56:22lostlogicdaurnimator: what do you mean?
06:56:24sharpebye people.
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06:56:40daurnimatoris there games etc, for rockbox?
06:56:49daurnimatorthat are platform independant
06:56:50daurnimatorsort of
06:57:06lostlogicdaurnimator: no
06:57:18lostlogicdaurnimator: anything that is to run on rockbox must be ported to rockbox
06:57:29lostlogicalthough we have a gameboy emulator to play gameboy games
06:57:35lostlogicand a pacman emulator to play pacman
06:57:39lostlogicif you have the roms for those games
06:58:10daurnimatorwhat libs are ported for rockbox?
06:58:15lostlogicwhat do you mean?
06:58:50daurnimatoreg, zlib, libpng, libjpg, SDL etc
06:59:07lostlogicRockbox is a completely separate operating system, designed for MP3 players, there aren't ports of standard libraries for it... although some basic stdlib functions do have rockbox equivalents.
06:59:20lostlogicRockbox is not a posix system, so don't expect posix libraries
06:59:36 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
06:59:47lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: fixed one of your bugs
07:00:19lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: the other is my big bug that I may have fixed, but is hard for me to reproduce (even tried mikachu's method).
07:00:43lostlogicdaurnimator: would you rather it was dirt slow like ipl? :-P
07:01:00Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Which bug?
07:01:08lostlogicthe track skip shows wrong track info momentarily one
07:01:15daurnimatorsurely you could get some sort of implementations for standard lib
07:01:23lostlogicdaurnimator: sure, we could, but at what cost
07:01:25lostlogican unacceptable one
07:01:32lostlogicrockbox doesn't want to b ea linux
07:01:41lostlogicif you want to run a linux on your DAP, port linux.
07:01:53GaloisI view rockbox as something closer to an application than an operating system
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07:02:48pirokowow. lots of people... is it safe to ask a question here?
07:02:59lostlogicpiroko: ask, dont' ask to ask ;)
07:03:40pirokoall right :) I recently installed rockbox on my 4g grey ipod, and everything runs fine, except it will seemingly randomly shut itself down sometimes. is this normal?
07:03:46Paul_The_Nerdpiroko: If I'm here, it's always safe to ask a question. Be careful though, I answer "Can you..." questions very literally.
07:04:05Paul_The_NerdWhat condition is it in when it randomly shuts down? Is it during playback, or otherwise?
07:04:07lostlogicpiroko: stop playing, or shut down?
07:04:22pirokoduring playback, and it reboots, then freezes at the rockbox screen typically
07:04:34pirokocpu overheat or something?
07:05:48lostlogicpiroko: sounds like a bug in cpu frequency scaling
07:06:17lostlogicPaul_The_Nerd: you heard of anything similar on 4g?
07:06:27pirokoi've watched the audio thread while playing oggs, and it usually goes for about 3 seconds at 75mhz, and then drops down to 30mhz for 3 seconds etc...
07:06:59 Quit Rick ("I don't need to be here.")
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07:07:05pirokomp3's are actually more cpu intensive, suprisingly. but it happens on both oggs and mp3s
07:07:20lostlogicpiroko: yes, that's normal boosting behavior
07:07:40pirokoi figured. fill buffer, wait, fill buffer...
07:07:53lostlogicbut until recently there was a problem with boosting on 4g that had it disabled... amiconn fixed that and enabled it for the 4g, but maybe the fix is imperfect
07:08:08lostlogicunfortunately that's all I know about it
07:08:12Paul_The_Nerdlostlogic: Never heard of such a problem before, but not many people post about Grayscale 4G
07:08:27pirokoah. that's unfortunate. is there anything i can do to help debug?
07:08:36Paul_The_Nerdpiroko: How old/new is your version?
07:08:44pirokoipod or rockbox?
07:09:05pirokoi keep it extremely up to date
07:09:14pirokoi'm one build behind right now
07:09:19lostlogicpiroko: probably hafta wait till amiconn or linuxstb or preglow show up (usually an hour or two from now) and ask them
07:09:45pirokoi'll try to stay up then. it's 0100 here...
07:09:48lostlogicpiroko: better update... you're missing two variable size changes and 1 comment from the debug menu!
07:10:18lostlogicpiroko: 0000 here, but like 0600 where amiconn lives, I think
07:10:33pirokowow. where does he live?
07:10:53pirokoawesome. is he german? or just living there?
07:10:57lostlogicthe project was founded in Sweden, which is also CET
07:11:09Paul_The_Nerdpiroko: Did the problem start recently?
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07:11:43pirokoi think so. i didn't start listening to it for long periods of time until recently. it usually happens after about 30-45 minutes
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07:14:57*Paul_The_Nerd wonders if there's any screensaver-style plugins that boost.
07:16:34pirokowhat is wrong with me? i'm running os x and i'm using fluxbox as my window manager...
07:16:48lostlogicpiroko: not a bad choice, although I prefer openbox.
07:17:08pirokofor what reason lostlogic?
07:17:59lostlogicI never could get the hang of using tabs, if I recall correctly... and I had a problem with fluxbox's edge resistance
07:19:29pirokoah. don't use tabs myself, nor edges. i'm looking into openbox now. i didn't realize it was being actively developed.
07:20:27lostlogicactive is an overstatement
07:20:42lostlogicalthough I've been running 3.3rc2 since ti was released without problems that effect me
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07:22:51pirokoso do amiconn and linuxstb get on every day?
07:23:02lostlogicit would be rare for them to miss a day.
07:23:52pirokook. i just don't want my overtiredness to be in vain ;)
07:23:53lostlogicusually on until 5 or 6 CDT as well
07:24:05lostlogicso you could just wait until you wake up and then come back ;)
07:24:15lostlogicI for instance am going to bed now :-p
07:24:33pirokoi'm willing to wait. thanks for your help!
07:27:05pirokopeople are so quiet...
07:27:19Paul_The_NerdWell, this is what I think of as "the dead time"
07:27:40pirokoi guess most people are from the U.S...
07:27:46Paul_The_NerdNot really
07:27:58Paul_The_NerdA large portion are in various parts of Europe
07:28:01lostlogicUS and Europe are asleep now, including me.
07:28:07Paul_The_NerdBut it's too early for them to be here yet.
07:28:19pirokogotcha. sleep irc-ing again lostlogic?
07:28:31VoltageXPaul_The_Nerd: irc doesn't really go dead
07:28:48Paul_The_NerdIt's never really dead
07:28:53Paul_The_NerdBut it's a lot quieter at certain periods.
07:29:10speacial_edi can fix that
07:29:44speacial_edok so that didnt last long...
07:31:22speacial_eddoes anyone know anything about actaully being able to control gameboy games on the ipod with ipod linux, or are those controls just as crappy?
07:31:39Paul_The_NerdIpodLinux actually has decent controls.
07:31:42speacial_edi think that may be the deciding factor in whether i should stop being lazy and use it or not
07:32:00speacial_edbecause i have alot of gameboy games which i love, but no longer a gameboy
07:32:39pirokoi had no problem with iboy
07:32:51pirokoit's all touch sensitive. not very hard to get used to.
07:33:20pirokothe only issue I had was accidentally hitting the select and start buttons when moving down
07:34:30speacial_edi just have a fear of ipod linux because it at the very least assisted in bricking my nano
07:34:53speacial_edaccording to paul and others it was hardware too, but it happened when installing ipod linux
07:35:02speacial_edso yeah, just scares me
07:35:06pirokoouch. i've installed linux on about 13 ipods and upgraded mine at least 30 times and never had a problem...
07:35:26pirokoi guess you're just unlucky :P
07:35:40speacial_edunlucky would be a fitting word indeed
07:35:41BHSPitLappydoes anyone know if the Sudoku plugin can be used as a -solver-, by any chance :)
07:35:52pirokothat would be cool
07:36:11speacial_edim fairly sure it cant be though
07:36:31pirokoyeah, some sudoku's are really tough to solve, even for a computer
07:36:50BHSPitLappyI doubt that last part
07:36:55BHSPitLappybut anyway
07:36:55pirokoi have one sudoku that takes my 900mhz machine about 30 seconds to solve
07:37:04pirokoit doesn't brute force it though
07:37:07pirokodoes it logically
07:37:12BHSPitLappyspeacial_ed: you couldn't have "bricked" your nano via a USB cable in any way.
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07:37:34BHSPitLappy(unless you stuck the USB end into a 110V outlet?)
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07:38:39speacial_edin finished the installer, i ejected, after it ejected it died even though it was at or near full battery and my computer or any other computer would no longer even recognize it
07:39:43pirokoyou try putting it into disk mode?
07:40:08speacial_edi tried every thing i could think off
07:40:30speacial_edmessed with it for at least a week not wanting to give up on it before i took it back for the warrenty
07:40:49speacial_edwhich i then gladly spent on my more than kickass 5g
07:40:55BHSPitLappypiroko: just out of curiosity, what program do you use to do that solving
07:41:02pirokowhich you have rockbox on?
07:41:07pirokoBHSPitLappy: one sec
07:41:11speacial_edwhich is why its more than kickass
07:41:21BHSPitLappypiroko: (and maybe you could port it to rockbox...)
07:41:23BHSPitLappyamiconn: evening
07:41:30BHSPitLappypiroko: ;)
07:41:48amiconnlostlogic: It wasn't me who fixed cpu frequency scaling on 4g, it was linuxstb
07:42:41amiconnThis was a problem on the PP5020 based ipods. I still wonder why we need such an exotic workaround for these
07:43:12amiconnThe problem doesn't exist on PP5021 and PP5022.
07:43:42amiconnThe latter is what I have, since I have a mini 2G...
07:43:50pirokobut could it crash a 4g?
07:44:11 Quit BHSPitLappy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
07:44:24pirokoi mean, is that the definate cause?
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07:45:50infamisamiconn...trying not to take credit for something ya didn't do...where's your lack of morale at?
07:47:40amiconnpiroko: CPU frequency scaling did crash the 4g ipods (both grayscale and the color/photo, which is what linuxstb has)
07:48:10pirokois there a way i could diagnose the source of the problem or collect some sort of debug info myself to give some feedback to you guys?
07:48:17amiconnlinuxstb fixed the problem one week ago
07:48:30pirokobut now it may not be fixed...
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07:50:12amiconnIf you are able to build rockbox yourself, you can make a build with cpu frequency scaling disabled (the CPU will run at 75MHz all the time then, so battery runtime will decrease) and test that
07:50:55pirokowhere is frequency scaling enabled in the source?
07:53:27amiconnfirmware/export/config-ipod4g.h Comment out the line #define HAVE_ADJUSTABLE_CPU_FREQ
07:53:38pirokowill do
07:55:03pirokoone more question: does the ipod really charge if you hold down menu when plugging it into usb?
07:55:26pirokoi read on the forums complaints that it doesn't
07:55:44amiconnIt should. My mini 2g does
07:55:48BHSPitLappythen those people weren't plugging into ports that provided power unconditionally
07:56:06BHSPitLappyI think some comps will stop giving power to a port if there isn't a recognized device there
07:56:10pirokook. i get the power icon when i plug it in, so i assume it's working
07:56:17pirokoi'll just use ac to be safe
07:56:56amiconnBut then, rockbox on ipod is far from finished (well, rockbox itself will never be 'finished') so expect quirks
07:57:33amiconnI can only charge my mini from usb, I have no separate ac adaptor
07:57:48pirokoand you do it from rockbox?
07:58:02amiconnSometimes from rockbox, sometimes in disk mode
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07:58:39*BHSPitLappy is lucky enough to have recieved a free wall charger
07:59:07pirokowhy is HAVE_CHARGING commented out in the config-4g.h file?
07:59:08amiconnUsually I connect it to my usb hub which is powered, and I know it provides power to the ports even if the uplink isn't connected at all
08:00:46Paul_The_Nerdpiroko: That just enabled/disables an animated icon, I believe.
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08:01:28speacial_edo yeah that was one of my questions awhile ago... can we change that icon, the "Do not remove" one...
08:01:48piroko"/* Define this if the platform can charge batteries */"
08:02:11amiconnCharging on ipod is hardware controlled
08:02:16Paul_The_Nerdspeacial_ed: The "Do not remove" one has nothing to do with Rockbox
08:03:04amiconnThis definition enables some more battery monitoring, e.g. the animated charging icon
08:03:27pirokogotcha. which doesn't matter for the ipod because battery status isn't even functional yet
08:03:52amiconnThe necessary readout functions may not be correctly implemented yet for 4g, so it's commented out
08:04:49amiconnBattery status should be functional (but the runtime will be wrong since we need data about the batteris) with 2 changes in config-ipod4g.h
08:04:55amiconnDo you wanna try them?
08:05:05pirokowhy not?
08:05:30pirokoso i'll be running rockbox with no cpu scaling and a fake battery meter. sweet :)
08:05:34amiconn(1) Find the line #define BATTERY_SCALE_FACTOR ... and change the number to 5865
08:06:05amiconn(2) (2) Uncomment the commented-out line #define CONFIG_BATTERY BATT_LIPOL1300
08:07:30amiconnIt's not fake, the percentages should be almost correct. Just the runtime estimation is wrong because both the battery capacity isn't correct, and the necessary currents for the various hardware parts arent known yet
08:07:56pirokoI know it's not fake. My wording was incorrect.
08:08:26pirokoThat must be a pain to reverse engineer...
08:08:36amiconnFor my mini, both factors actually almost compensate by coincidence, so rockbox' runtime estimation iis almost correct
08:09:04pirokoi assume you compiled yours yourself? ;)
08:09:19amiconnThe corrections I told you are in cvs.
08:09:28pirokoi'm using cvs
08:09:32amiconnAh, no, didn't commit them yet
08:09:42pirokowill you? :D
08:09:47amiconnpiroko: In cvs in config-ipodmini2g.h
08:10:17amiconnIf you tell me that it works okay for the 4g, I can commit that for all ipods
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08:11:02amiconnThe 5g already uses these values, and since the power management chip is the same in all ipods, it should work
08:11:13pirokoi'm compiling arm-elf-gcc now, and once it finishes i'll compile and install the new rockbox. should i still keep frequency scaling off while testing the battery meter?
08:11:27amiconnShouldn't matter
08:11:41pirokook. and can i keep my old .rockbox/ folder?
08:11:49amiconnOf course the runtime would be different, but then runtime isn't calibrated
08:12:10amiconnYou can always unzip over the old .rockbox folder.
08:12:45pirokooverwrite the .rockbox/ folder from cvs, and then overwrite rockbox.ipod with my custom one?
08:13:12amiconnNo. Just build your own rockbox, then 'make zip' and unzip that to your ipod
08:13:25pirokoah gotcha. that's handy
08:13:55amiconnFor such small modifications, it should suffice to just replace rockbox.ipod though
08:14:25 Join RoC_MM [0] (
08:14:54amiconnIf the codecs and/or plugins don't match your running rockbox.ipod, you will get messages like 'codec failure' or 'invalid version'
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08:17:57pirokoi hope my powerbook doesn't set my pillow on fire again
08:18:20 Part Angel_of_Death ("Leaving")
08:19:38speacial_edim just gonna say that, your pillow got pwnt
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08:21:53pirokosooo... much... compiling...
08:23:16pirokoAnyone here play nethack?
08:24:47amiconnlostlogic: I now have an idea how to handle the various low-bat thresholds with LiIon in the source. Instead of having curves for each battery, we could define different battery types for each threshold, e.g. BATTERY_LIPOL_LOW330, defining the percentage tables in powermgmt.c. The capacity would be a separate definition
08:25:37pirokoamiconn: what format do you use for encoding your music for rockbox? it seems, to me at least, that ogg is the most efficient cpu-wise. is this true?
08:25:55amiconnIt is _currently_ true on ipod
08:26:12amiconnlibmad needs optimisations for arm
08:26:38amiconnI have practically all my music in mp3 format, and won't reencode it just for the ipod
08:26:39pirokocan libogg get optimisations as well? or is it optimized already?
08:27:23amiconnTremor already has some arm optimisations, but it can probably be optimised further
08:27:27ashridahogg's already pretty well optimised for arm
08:27:46ashridah(in that it performs better than mp3, at least)
08:28:10amiconnpreglow is the right guy to ask about codecs and codec optimisations, but he'll probably not be around during the we
08:28:11pirokosorry for so many questions, but it's nice to talk to someone who knows what he's doing. what's your average playtime on your mini? i haven't been able to thoroughly test it yet, but people on the forums say it's dramatically less on the ipods
08:29:04amiconnThe PP5022 in the mini 2G seems to be quite efficient. Apple promises 16 hours - I never tested this and even can't. I won't install itunes
08:29:17amiconnWith rockbox, I got 10:45 during a runtime test
08:29:23pirokoholy crap
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08:29:25amiconnThat's with mp3...
08:30:03pirokowow. i assume the pp5020 would be less. on the rockbox site it said about 4-5 hours. I hope that info is outdated...
08:30:16amiconnRuntime on the other ipods seems to be significantly lower. ~7 hours on nano, and less than 5 hours on 4g color
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08:30:37pirokoi wonder why...
08:30:56Paul_The_NerdBecause the code is still in the "get things working" phase rather than the "do it quickly" phase
08:31:08pirokoi love that phase ;)
08:31:17amiconnThe nano has PP5021 which is also low-power, but of course also a much smaller battery
08:31:31pirokoand the mini seems to be perfect
08:31:50amiconnThe mini 1g will probably be worse than the 4gs
08:32:13daurnimatorany here a coder
08:32:16amiconn(1) it has a smaller battery than the mini 2g (2) It has PP5020
08:32:24pirokoouch. double whammy
08:32:29daurnimatorwith an urge to start porting to a new platform?
08:33:05gursikhI know this is not the place, but I know many of you are very Tech-savvy −−so, Anyone know of a *nix based alternative to exchange server? Or any other decnt method of sharing outlook calenders and folders?
08:33:27 Join ender` [0] (i=ychat@
08:34:20amiconnpiroko: Yeah, I'm happy I got a mini 2g (although it took a bit more work to get rockbox running on it that it would have been with mini 1g). I didn't know which generation it would be when I got it from ebay
08:34:44*amiconn has 7 rockboxes
08:35:32Paul_The_Nerddaurnimator: Usually it works the other way around. Someone who owns a new platform device starts coding.
08:36:09*piroko wishes he had 7 rockboxes
08:36:21pirokowho manages the ifp-790 port?
08:36:27*Paul_The_Nerd has 2 but maybe 4
08:36:43Paul_The_Nerdpiroko: The person who's done almost all the work goes by Tomal if I recall.
08:37:27pirokodo you know if he is still working on it? that's the only other mp3 player I own and I was eagerly anticipating a usable release
08:37:43gursikhpiroko: thanks, i've actually seen that article already (I wouldn't be asking random IRC channels for info if i hadn't done some research first:-)
08:38:07Paul_The_Nerdpiroko: He very recently posted to the mailing list saying progress is happening, but he generally has very little time.
08:38:14pirokogursikh: ah. sorry to give you useless info
08:38:26gursikhno, it's not like that..
08:38:45piroko:( oh well. no biggie. the ifp can play oggs just fine. i just really like rockbox :P
08:39:11gursikhbut these things are very very expensive, I'm looking to help out a non-profit group so money is a BIG issue.
08:39:56pirokoyeah, i couldn't find any free/open source ones...
08:40:32pirokojeez gcc takes forever to compile
08:40:48Paul_The_Nerdpiroko: It doesn't play above q8 very well, does it?
08:41:27pirokoi use q3
08:42:32Paul_The_NerdWell, that's fine then
08:42:38Paul_The_NerdI remember reading other Ogg-related problems too
08:42:48Paul_The_NerdBut my memory isn't good enough to recall what they were
08:43:19Paul_The_NerdAt the moment, I believe the iFP port can play small WAV files, and that's it. Though that's a lot better than nothing.
08:44:30pirokoyeah. the ifp can't play ogg's below 96kbps
08:44:41pirokowhich sucks because 64kbps isn't bad with ogg
08:44:59pirokoand with 1gig of storage on the thing, low file size is really nice
08:45:14Paul_The_NerdI also understand that the UMS has a crippled recording feature for some reason.
08:45:26pirokocan't do high quality
08:46:12Paul_The_NerdNot that I use mine for recording.
08:46:23pirokogcc is taking too long to finish and i need sleep. amiconn: i'll tell you how that battery status works out tomorrow morning if you're on or whenever. night all
08:46:41amiconnnight piroko
08:47:30amiconn08:47 here :)
08:47:44gursikh01:47 AM Local here
08:48:44Paul_The_NerdUS, Central?
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08:53:24goffa_mountain time here
08:57:39 Join infamis [0] (
09:02:20*linuxstb wonders if we deal with wraparound of USEC_TIMER correctly. It will reach 2^31 after about 36 minutes...
09:02:38Paul_The_NerdWhat's USEC_TIMER for?
09:03:49linuxstbIt's used for the short udelay() loops.
09:04:01 Quit gursikh ()
09:04:20linuxstbIt's a 32-bit microsecond timer accessed at a certain memory location.
09:05:06Paul_The_NerdCould improper handling cause freezing somehow? I know every now and then I see people mention freezes at ~35ish minutes.
09:05:27linuxstbYes, it's likely that's the cause.
09:06:56linuxstbI should probably first check if it's a signed or unsigned value - i.e. does it wrap at 2^31 or 2^32?
09:07:49Paul_The_NerdThat could indeed make a bit of a difference.
09:11:57amiconnHmm, no Linus the whole week :(
09:12:17*amiconn has some questions regarding i2c on coldfire
09:12:48amiconnLike, why do we limit ourselves to 100kHz i2c clock for the audiocodec when the uda1380 can handle 400kHz?
09:15:05amiconnlinuxstb: Did you try the battery type & scale factor changes for correct battery percentages on your 4g color?
09:15:48linuxstbIf you just mean the two changes in config-???.h, then yes.
09:15:57amiconnIt works?
09:16:24linuxstbYes, it seems OK. Those battery_bench.txt files I've posted were generated with those changes.
09:16:34amiconnThen I'll commit that for all ipods.
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09:24:56amiconnlinuxstb: You should also check for which platforms tehse freezes are reported.
09:25:46amiconnAfaik such inline delay functions using USEC_TIMER are defined in various places.
09:26:26amiconnMaybe not all places have problems with wrap
09:26:59linuxstbThat's true - it's not just udelay() that needs fixing.
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09:50:35linuxstbUSEC_TIMER appears to be unsigned - so at least it's defined correctly.
09:56:56amiconnDefining it signed should make wrap handling easier
09:57:23amiconnThat's why current_tick is signed
09:57:55amiconn(or rather, not define USEC_TIMER signed but cast to signed in calculations)
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10:21:20amiconnlostlogic: With your latest change, I got a hard freeze again :-( I thought these were gone.
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10:22:37amiconnI also observed that the tag info is delayed in the wps. Not sure whether it was like that before though on swcodec
10:23:26Slasheribefore the tag info was always instant even when skipping tracks really fast
10:23:29amiconn(The wps first shows the filename only. After ~1 sec it updates and shows the tag info.)
10:23:45Slasherithat is then normal (always been that way)
10:23:50Slasheriunless tagcache is loaded in ram
10:24:25amiconnNow it's only instant when skipping in-buffer. On startup and when skipping out-of-buffer, it's delayed
10:24:47Slasherisounds normal, because we have only filename available at that moment
10:25:03Slasheriit's better to show the filename then than freeze the wps entirely while waiting
10:25:04amiconnOn archos it's different.
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10:26:25amiconnWhen starting playback on archos, tag display is instant. When skipping tracks (practically always out-of-buffer) the whole wps update is delayed until skip finishes and playback resumes from skip destination. Then, tag info is already available
10:27:02amiconnWhile wps update is delayed, the UI doesn't feel sluggish
10:27:09Slasheriah, that doesn't sound goot at all..
10:27:23Slasheribecause user receives no response when skipping many tracks in a row
10:28:34amiconn(archos) First, playback is paused, which is indicated immediately in wps ( || icon). Then the disk spins up and new data is buffered. Finally playback resumes at the skip destination and the wps is updated.
10:29:04Slasheribut user doesn't know which track has been currently selected if skipping them fast?
10:29:20Slasherion swcodec, the track number tag and filename is updated instantly
10:29:34Slasheriso user always knows what track will be played next
10:29:34amiconnI don't see a reason to update this info immediately
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10:30:09amiconnWho reads the display _during_ fast-skipping multiple tracks??
10:30:20Slasherii would find it very annoying not to know the current track.. for example, if you would like to skip the first 5 tracks, that would be very annoying
10:30:30Slasherii do that often at least :)
10:30:32amiconnIf I know I want to skip lets say 4 tracks, I just click right-rght-right-right
10:30:47 Part Paul_The_Nerd
10:30:49amiconnI don't need the display at all for that
10:31:00Slasheriif i have a long playlist, there is no need to go to the playlist viewer.. just skip multiple tracks, until the wps displays a good track
10:31:10Slasherithen stop skipping and playback starts soon
10:31:34amiconnHow do you know it's a good track when skipping fast?
10:31:43Slasheriyes :) but probably people prefer different things
10:32:00Slasheriwell, there is the 0.5s delay before playback starts
10:32:11Slasheriduring that period, i can often see if it's good or not..
10:32:14Slasheriif not, just continue skipping
10:32:32amiconnReally? In 0.5sec you know whether it's a good track?
10:33:03Slasheriquite often yes, if the track is from the same album
10:33:05peturwhat if I'm looking for a particular song? I want to skip until I have it, and if possible not wait too long between each skip
10:33:20Slasheriand with tagcache, full tags are displayed immediately..
10:33:22Slasherithat makes it even easier
10:33:25amiconnpetur: Then better use the playlist viewer
10:33:44Slasheripetur: you don't need to wait at all while skipping
10:33:47amiconnI wouldn't want to keep looking at the display while skipping.
10:34:00amiconn...looking for a specific track
10:34:14Slasheriwith current implementation, you should be able to skip many tracks in a second and see flashes while wps updates
10:35:05Slasheriand if you are playing for example track 11. and want to skip to track number 17., you would do it easily just skipping
10:35:18Slasheribecause wps instantly shows the current entry playlist entry number
10:35:33peturand the name of the track? that's what I'd like
10:35:52amiconnEither I know how many tracks to skip, then I do click-click-click. When I don't know, I use the playlist viewer. Imho it's tedious to keep looking at the display watching for a specific track while skipping potentially a lot of tracks
10:35:56Slasheriyou see the filename, and with tagcache in ram, full tags
10:36:30Slasheriamiconn: anyway, i am quite sure some people prefers to skip tracks also this way
10:36:55Slasheriso i hope that feature will not be removed
10:37:21peturI'm sure *many* users will object if it's removed
10:37:39amiconnHmm, it's possible to confuse the tag readout completely when skipping back & forth like mad
10:38:00Slasherithen it's a bug in the engine
10:38:02crwlI, for one, like very much that WPS instantly reacts to track skipping, especially with shuffle on
10:38:41Slasheriat least my old engine didn't confuse even while skipping back & forth very fast
10:38:44amiconnIt just started playing a track, but wps kept displaying just the filename, and 0:00/0:00 playtime
10:39:01Slasherithose are probably new bugs then
10:40:25amiconnWell, I'm not that much of a skip user. If I know I don't like a certain album track, I have playlists for these albums that exclude the track. I only use skip like 'Not this track right now, please'
10:42:36 Join damaki [0] (
10:43:46infamisI'm with Slasheri
10:45:01infamisI would rather skip through tracks fast instead of searching for a particular track (especially while driving)
10:45:35amiconnWhen driving better don't look at the display at all
10:45:40infamisand sometimes, the filename of the _next_ track shows up on the WPS before the current track (which has just been skipped to) starts playing...
10:45:49infamisamiconn: exactly
10:46:11amiconnYeah, then our discussion is not an issue for you
10:46:46infamis...while driving, but otherwise, yeah
10:47:00midkay_easier to *skip* *glance* *skip* *glance* .. than *stare* while navigating menu -> playlist -> viewer -> select track -> play it..
10:47:03amiconnWee, all-green build table
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10:48:06infamisI need randomness, I hate selecting a track from memory
10:49:04peturwell I just tried using the playlist to skip to a specific track: what a pita... too many clicks to get it done, sorry
10:49:18*ashridah checks in a file with #warning teehee in it
10:49:43peturunless I missed a shortcut?
10:49:48amiconnpetur: Hold navi->down->navi->navi. Then you're in the viewer
10:50:01midkay_then down down down down down down navi..
10:50:50amiconnmidkay_: Yeah, but you see a bunch of tracknames at once, where you can select from. You don't need to stare at the display watching the tracknames flipping by
10:51:03peturyes, and those clicks come on top of the ones needed to skip itself
10:51:26midkay_amiconn, that is true, there are advantages to both ways i think..
10:51:39amiconn...and the number of keypresses in the viewer is the same as when skipping individual tracks. It may even be lower because you can hold the button to scroll, or use page scrolling
10:51:50peturif the playlist were attached to a key and come up immediately, i'd agree
10:52:01midkay_i've been known to use both, when i know the track is not too far ahead i prefer to skip skip skip.. when i think i may be needing to move far down the list, i'll use the viewer.
10:52:54amiconnMaybe the playlist viewer would be a good option in the quickmenu in place of 'file view'
10:53:12amiconnThe latter makes no sense in the wps quickmenu
10:53:29midkay_amiconn, aha.. nice idea..
10:53:44amiconnOf course, that makes quickmenus context dependent
10:53:54midkay_amiconn, bad?
10:54:04amiconnMaybe a not-so-good idea to do it during the freeze
10:54:17*petur loves context sensitive menus
10:54:46peturI right-click everywhere on my windows box :D
10:55:00midkay_it's not really a feature, it's just a change... almost a bug fix. the Show Files option is completely irrelevant and useless in the WPS.. it'd be "fixing" it to actually provide useful functionality ;)
10:55:19midkay_or. i could indeed claim that i meant to make it context-sensitive before the freeze.. :)
10:55:28midkay_and i'm *fixing* the code to do it the intended way!
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10:59:14infamisamiconn: what does the i2c 400khz fix mean with regards to real world performance? anything signficant?
10:59:36amiconnProbably not much for this one
11:00:44amiconnThe audiocodec i2c is handled by the buitlin i2c controller of the coldfire, and the driver yields while waiting
11:01:34amiconnMy next change will boost performance on H300, especially at low cpu clock
11:02:18amiconn(removing the not-so-mysterious bandwidth eater)
11:02:32 Join rizzoo [0] (i=ScorchE@
11:02:34infamisA boost with the H300 == a boost with the X5...since they're both coldfire?
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11:02:50midkayamiconn, what did the bandwidth eater turn out to be?
11:03:35amiconnmidkay: It's the pcf adc reading in the button isr. Called 100 times per second, and doing bit-banged i2c with no adjustment of the delays....
11:04:07rizzooi am attempting to put in new batteries (higher capacity)....when my archos jukebox recorder tries to boot up, it gets to 3 notches and then beeps at me and does nothing else
11:04:10rizzoowhat is going on?
11:04:35amiconnI'd very much like the pcf adc running on its own, and firing an interrupt on value change. It actually can do this, but only for one channel :(
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11:05:18LinusNamiconn: there?
11:05:25midkayamiconn, interesting
11:05:27amiconnFor one *specific* channel, unfortunately not the one used for button reading
11:05:31midkayrizzoo, it beeps?
11:05:40rizzoostrangely enough, yes
11:05:45amiconnLinusN: yes, for a bit
11:06:01LinusNamiconn: the peripherals can handle 400khz, but afaik, the coldfire can't do more than 100khz
11:06:07rizzoothen i opened it up to see if anything broke, and it still freezes up, but doesnt beep
11:06:21midkayrizzoo, through the headphones or actually the jukebox itself?
11:06:27rizzoojukebox itself
11:06:46midkay*scratches head*
11:06:49amiconnLinusN: Really? It's working...
11:06:51LinusNthe data sheets are a bit vague on this
11:07:18midkayrizzoo, did you try putting back the old batteries?
11:07:19LinusNso i might be wrong
11:07:23infamiscould be hardware-based battery protection?
11:07:29LinusNthat's the reason i used 100khz
11:07:44amiconnAh, "The interface operates up to 100 kbps with maximum bus loading and timing."
11:07:50amiconnThis is indeed very vague
11:08:03amiconnI don't think iriver uses maximum bus load at all
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11:08:27rizzooold batteries work fine
11:08:36Myth1hi everyone
11:08:50amiconnWell, in this case, bit-banged i2c (with proper delay adjustment) might be better...
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11:09:07rizzoonew ones are typical ni-mh AAs
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11:09:17rizzoo1.25V, 2400mAh
11:09:24LinusNamiconn: perhaps
11:09:25midkayinfamis, that would make some sense but i wonder how they do the beep... and i've never heard about anything like this before, strange.
11:09:42rizzoomidkay: <rizzoo> old batteries work fine
11:09:44LinusNan interrupt based hardware i2c might be better cpu-wise
11:09:49rizzoo<rizzoo> new ones are typical ni-mh AAs
11:10:05LinusNbut bit-banged would certainly be faster
11:10:07amiconnLinusN: We don't use interrupts right now, do we?
11:10:32LinusNi think i vote for bitbanged
11:10:54Myth1can anyone help me with a quick idea: In metadata.c, how is it possible to write something into id3->album. Do I have to reserve memory or id3->album?
11:10:59rizzooi thought of the beep possibly coming from the mic in some way....but i atm, i am more curious as to why my new batteries wont work
11:11:06amiconnIt looks like we're polling the ICF flag, yielding while not complete
11:11:30midkayrizzoo, hm..
11:11:53rizzooonly preivious mod that i have done is to upgrade the HD
11:12:09rizzoowhich works great....put in one of the new perpendicular 160 gig seagates
11:12:35amiconnLinusN: The bad thing with bit-banging and the atomic port modification instructions is that we won't reach 400kHz at 11MHz cpu clock
11:12:53infamisMay the battery is internally short-circuited?
11:13:07amiconnFor some reason accessing the gpio registers inserts a lot of waitstates
11:13:15midkayrizzoo, that's cool.. as to your problem, i've no idea.. no reason they shouldn't work..
11:13:22amiconnI couldn't find anything about that in the datasheet....
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11:13:38midkaypossibly something's wrong with them? if you can manage to exchange them for new ones or something i'd try that first
11:14:08amiconnand.l %dN,(%aM) is supposed to take 3 cpu cycles. It takes more like 20 for gpio...
11:14:30rizzoothe batteries work fine in other devices
11:14:47LinusNamiconn: wow
11:15:46amiconnYes. I did extensive measurement yesterday (letting my H300 execute extended "meaningless" loops with interrupts disabled, and stopping the time)
11:15:51midkayrizzoo, i'm out of ideas ;) maybe try ones with slightly less capacity.. like 2300mAh... *shrugs*
11:15:52rizzooso as far as i see, nothing is wrong with the cells themselves
11:16:19amiconnAlso, the coldfire pipeline operation is somewhat mysterious. It seems to fetch (single-word) instructions in pairs
11:16:23rizzoothat is what i was planning on...still makes me wonder why these wont work though
11:16:49*rizzoo tries to produce beeping again
11:17:03midkay*curious as to where it comes from*
11:17:04LinusNamiconn: calling it a pipeline sounds like an overstatement to me :-)
11:17:29Shoragani replaced the harddisk on my jukebox 6000 with a 20GB model and now when i boot it, it does not find the rockbox firmware or any mp3s...
11:17:38amiconnIt is a pipeline. I now understand it at least partially. There is a 3x32bit instruction fifo
11:18:11Shoraganbut it detects that it has a 20GB hadd
11:18:27infamisdid you copy the files over?
11:18:34amiconnLinusN: For 11MHz operation, it might be required to use the same method as in the remote lcd driver for better speed (precalculating port values and then just writing to the port, with interrupts disabled)
11:18:40crashdShoragan: did you reinstall rockbox, and your music?
11:18:44Shoraganwhen i mount it i can play the files from the archos
11:18:54midkayShoragan, is the drive formatted correctly?
11:18:58Shoraganand rockbox is installed too
11:19:17Shoragani used mkdosfs on linux
11:19:59Shoraganshould i try to format it from a windows box?
11:20:27rizzoomidkay: it had to have come from the mic
11:20:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:21:09midkayrizzoo, hm, i can't comment on the possibility of that, but the beeping itself is interesting at the least :)
11:21:09amiconnLinusN: Because of the pipelining, it might be useful to measure i2c timing with the upcoming new bit-banging driver
11:21:46amiconnIt should also be possible to leave out the input-and-check-SCL stage for the PCF
11:22:06amiconnIf I'm reading the datasheet correctly, the PCF cannot do clock stretcing
11:23:39 Join scorche [0] (n=scorche@
11:23:48amiconn"The PCF50606HN/xA/N1 ... acts as a slave receiver or slave transmitter. Therefore the clock signal SCL is only an input signal."
11:24:15 Quit damaki (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:24:26amiconnOr am I misinterpreting that?
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11:24:41LinusNyes you are
11:24:47LinusNit stretches
11:25:01amiconnOh, really?
11:25:13amiconnMakes the driver slower...
11:25:57LinusNi had to add clk polling to the initial pcf driver, otherwise it wouldn't work
11:26:34amiconnIs clock stretching alllowed for any bit, or only at the end of a byte?
11:27:40LinusNfor any bit, afaik
11:28:03LinusNbut i haven't seen it in the middle of a byte
11:30:33LinusNreboot time, cu soon
11:30:35 Part LinusN
11:30:52 Quit amiconn (" HydraIRC -> <- Go on, try it!")
11:33:56Avenow we are talking:
11:34:12Avefinally, some actual measurements, wish I had these with my creative player-wannabe
11:36:29Shoraganok, i recreated everything under windows and now it works...
11:38:06rizzoowell, thanks for your help....if i ever figure out the issue or methods to re-create the beeping, i will let you know =)
11:40:28midkayrizzoo, np, i'd like to hear how it works out
11:40:39rizzoowill do
11:41:45scorchefyi: i will most likely be in here from now on
11:41:54scorche<~~~~the true rizzoo
11:41:58 Quit rizzoo ("Leaving")
11:43:34crashdim sure you are scorche
11:44:08scorcheyou will never know for sure...
11:44:13crashdim not sure i care, tbh
11:44:16crashd; )
11:44:25crashdvery much so
11:44:32scorchei am hurt
11:44:40crashddon't be, im rude to loads of people
11:44:55 Quit scorche ("*sniff sniff*")
11:46:04midkaynow look what you did, crashd!
11:46:19 Join scorche [0] (n=scorche@
11:46:23crashdoh noes.
11:46:48midkayscorche, welcome aboard! you'll soon learn that there are a number of idiots in here! ;)
11:46:58 Quit infamis ("^what midkay said")
11:46:59crashdmidkay: !
11:47:00midkaykidding! i love you crashd, and you know it..
11:47:06crashd: ) i bloody hope so
11:47:08scorcheyou talking about the internet?....yes..i know this
11:47:19crashdit's the season of...praising...the death...of someone?
11:48:27scorchei hardly think that you will be able to compete with a few other channels i frequent though
11:49:18midkayscorche, i think you might reconsider that after you've been here a few days.. or not. just kidding. or.. something. or not.
11:51:32scorche<ManicV> i'm saying you're racist
11:51:32scorche<ManicV> and a child molester
11:51:32scorche<eco|w> You're just jealous of my ability to multitask.
11:51:42scorcheyou were saying?
11:51:53crashdno, i like eco's retort
11:52:09scorcheoh..idiots....hold on
11:52:45Avehow does rockbox relate to ipodlinux project?
11:53:17scorche<arnie_> my iq is 149+
11:53:17scorche<kryp71k> isn't it cute
11:53:17scorche<kampf|w> I AM A ROBOT
11:53:17DBUGEnqueued KICK scorche
11:53:17scorche<arnie_> i can solve a rubix cube no problem
11:53:31midkayAve, it doesn't.. only uses similar or the same code for a few iPod hardware files.
11:53:45ashridahAve: rockbox borrowed the specs and drivers helpfully reverse engineered by the IPL people.
12:02:50 Join xiper [0] (
12:03:37 Quit xiper (Client Quit)
12:03:43Aveah ok thanks
12:04:15Avewell gotta say, the ipl UI is a bit more polished but rb certainl offers more audio-related functionality
12:34:15 Join Mindship-02 [0] (
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12:35:29Mindship-02which rockboxlogo (/apps/bitmaps/native) is used for the iriver H140?
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12:45:14Mindship-02hi, I asked (before you entered):
12:45:16Mindship-02which rockboxlogo (/apps/bitmaps/native) is used for the iriver H140?
12:45:50crashdMindship-02: if anyone who knows is around, they will answer sooner or later
12:45:56crashdre asking the question wont help :)
12:46:09roelioooi dont't know
12:46:48Mindship-02crashd: I know, It's just that I'm in a hurry and thought roeliooo might know it (and he couldn't yet have read the question)... just taking all my chances ;-)
12:46:59crashdhave you tried checking the wiki and/or source
12:47:10Mindship-02k. thx anyway... I'll wait four more minutes for an answer
12:47:20Mindship-02crashd: yes... still searching
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12:48:48Avemidkay: do you know your device screen resolution?
12:49:08 Join Genre9mp3 [0] (n=yngwiejo@
12:49:21Avebecause then the answer is quite simple, you can find it by looking at apps/bitmaps/native/SOURCES
12:49:29Aveerr, Mindship-02
12:50:08Genre9mp3OK...sorry for the "newbish" question...but how do I login in the console with the VMware enviroment?
12:50:26Mindship-02yes, I read that one, but than I noticed I didn't know the res... (stupid thing, because I know of my wristwatch and my calc, but not of my iriver :-P)
12:52:01roeliooo160x128, 16-bit grayscale
12:52:24Genre9mp3I get this "You must exec login from the lowest level "sh"
12:52:55Aveare you running linux on the vmware or what?
12:53:36Avehm just login uh normally..
12:54:21Aveah its debian
12:54:33Genre9mp3When I open Xshells > Eterm, it seems that I'm already login
12:54:41Mindship-02roeliooo: are you sure about the 16bit part? I thought it has only 2 bit greyscale (4 shades)
12:54:43Genre9mp3but I get permission denied
12:54:46Avedid you follow the docs at
12:55:08Avetry xterm or something other than eterm
12:57:11Genre9mp3same thing...
12:58:50Aveand you just got the image fresh and booted it for first time?
12:58:52Genre9mp3I'm restarting the V.machine...let's see...
12:59:02Aveweird stuff
12:59:15Mindship-02and 128*64 for the remote
12:59:18Mindship-02thanks all.
12:59:24 Quit Mindship-02 ("bye")
13:00:01Genre9mp3Arrghhh...same thing...after restart...
13:01:11AveI just set up the full dev envinment in my debian server.. but I think it makes more sense just to use the daily snapshot build
13:03:06Genre9mp3I logged in as root (when starting) it permitts me to login in the Xshell but I get the same "Permission denied thing"
13:05:45Avetry doing exactly as the wiki says
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13:09:58Genre9mp3hmm...downloading the latest cvs from the console works....
13:10:36Genre9mp3there must be something wrong with the files of my build I suppose then...
13:10:48Avesounds like you run X in a weird way as wrong user or something
13:11:08 Quit Jungti1234 (Client Quit)
13:11:15 Join DomasoFan [0] (n=Miranda@
13:11:40Genre9mp3I'll try to compile the bleeding edge to see if this is the problem
13:12:43DomasoFanI have a question: Is the installation of Rockbox on Irivers the same as on archos players?
13:13:00AveI mean, the error certainly doesnt sound like youd have compiler errors if you just can login from console it sok
13:13:02ashridahDomasoFan: not quite.
13:13:28ashridahDomasoFan: you need to apply a patch to an original copy of the iriver firmware so that it'll load rockbox from disk
13:13:35Genre9mp3The probem is that I get permission denied message when I hit "../tools/configure"
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13:14:06AveGenre9mp3: as root?
13:14:22ashridahif he's getting that as root, it probably isn't executable
13:14:32ashridahor he's missing the interpreter
13:14:37ashridah(which seems unlikely)
13:14:46Genre9mp3as user...
13:15:14Genre9mp3but everything seems ok now (with the build I just downloaded)
13:15:22Genre9mp3so there must be the files...
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13:46:09DomasoFanHi. I am blind and i am having problems reading the manualn of the daily build for the iriver h300. is there some documentation in another format?
13:46:55peturYou mean it is a problem because it's a pdf file?
13:48:02Myth1I need some help in developing a codec: Is ci->configure(DSP_SET_FREQUENCY, (long *)44100); correct for setting up the DSP to 44.1khz? I have some strange problems :(
13:48:08 Join Febs [0] (
13:48:09peturthere's always but I don't know how up-to-date it is
13:48:18DomasoFandon't know. most of the pdf files are readable but with this file my software has some issues.
13:49:49peturMyth1: (long*)44100 will certainly never work ;)
13:50:26peturunless address 44100 holds your frequency :P
13:50:41amiconnpetur: That's not quite correct
13:50:54amiconn(long*) just means the value is cast to a long pointer
13:51:02Myth1petur: Well, ci->configure(DSP_SET_SAMPLE_DEPTH, (long *)28); works fine, so I guessed it (long*)44100 works fine, too.
13:51:08ashridahDomasoFan: iirc, one of the links on has a link to a set of documentation for the blind, if you havne't read it yet. I'm not sure how useful it'll be for you tho
13:51:19CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
13:51:19*petur is confused
13:51:20ashridahand it may be oriented towards archos users, i'm not sure
13:51:23amiconnAfaik, the second parameter of ci->configure is a void*, just to allow passing almost everything
13:51:24Myth1so is this correct or not?
13:51:50peturwhat a silly thing to do
13:52:08amiconnI would cast to a void* instead of a long* for consistency with the function declaration, but it doesn't really matter
13:52:18crashdMyth1: how's the tinysid port coming along?
13:52:19peturso sometimes it's a pointer, sometimes it's a value...
13:52:28Myth1crashd: Its nearly working
13:52:49amiconnpetur: Yes, it depends on the first parameter how the second one is interpreted
13:52:58amiconnImho it's not silly at all
13:53:00Myth1its just that my soundbuffer is only partially played (e.g. only the first 128 bytes instead of 1024)
13:53:23Myth1and I can see the timer going really fast, so i guess i did something wrong with the api
13:54:56crashdMyth1: cool :)
13:55:21crashdit's a shame no one has had time to look at the DUMB codec
13:55:25crashdbe nice to get all the other old formats running ;)
13:57:07Myth1yeah, i found the bug ;))
13:57:17Myth1sid is playing in rockboxui!
13:57:23crashd: )
13:57:25crashdthat's the sim yeah?
13:57:38amiconnMyth1: Now get it running on target.... :)
13:57:53Mikachudo sid files have subsongs and stuff?
13:58:03amiconnI can only imagine 2 problems. (1) performance. (2) endianess
13:59:25Myth1yes sids have subsongs and I don't know how to handle this in rockbox
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14:00:35Mikachucan't ogg files theoretically have many streams too?
14:00:40Mikachuor is that ogm?
14:00:45crashdogm can
14:01:46Myth1unfortunately I don't have a real target available, yet :(
14:01:54crashdMyth1: im open for testing
14:01:54Myth1anyone interested in trying it out on the real machine?
14:01:59Mikachutime to put it on the tracker then
14:02:08 Quit ender` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:02:54 Nick ender1 is now known as ender` (i=ychat@
14:03:01crashdMyth1: do you have a diff for it?
14:03:26 Quit midkay (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:03:45amiconnI don't have many sids. I would be more interested in protracker supoort...
14:04:00Mikachui have exactly one sid file
14:04:00crashdamiconn: i think we'd all like as many tracker formats as possible
14:04:12Mikachui would love .ym files (atari) :)
14:04:21amiconnYeah, sure
14:04:22crashdive got about 200mb of sids
14:04:40crashdneed to take a look at dumb again at some point
14:05:03amiconnIt's just that relatively simple tracker formats (like Pro-/Noise-/Soundtracker, Startrekker etc) should even be possible on archos, using the PCM codec...
14:06:07 Quit ashridah ("Leaving")
14:06:07Myth1once the sid is working fine i can do a protracker in no time
14:06:12amiconnThe hardest part will be the realtime downmix 4 channels, variable sample frequency -> 2 channels, fixed sample frequency
14:06:51crashdscreamtracker :)
14:07:11amiconnThat'll be a tad too demanding for the SH1...
14:07:31crashdbut one can dream O.o
14:07:45amiconnMED should be possible, and if we're really clever, maybe OctaMED and Oktalyzer
14:08:23Mikachupsf would be nice too :)
14:08:39Myth1crashd: Want me do build an executable or send over the source?
14:08:46crashdMyth1: an executable is fine dude
14:08:52crashdim on an ipod 5g
14:08:58Myth1uh, ipod
14:09:05Myth1guess thats not an m68k?
14:09:12crashdno, no it isn't
14:09:26Myth1mmh, then i have to setup a new build environment :(
14:09:33crashdsend over a diff
14:09:35crashdi can build it over here
14:09:47Myth1whats the best way to do this?
14:10:03lostlogicamiconn: I've not seen a hard freeze myself, but I'm quite sure that it and the infinite audio thread loop that I'm seeing and the negative filebufused that mikachu is seeing are all connected.
14:10:12crashdMyth1: you got somewhere to throw the file upto, so i can grab it?
14:10:23Myth1yeah sure
14:10:34 Quit Kohlrabi ("Fast alle Menschen sind Regenwürmer")
14:10:53amiconnlostlogic: I have an additional observation for you. One of your latest changes might have caused the delayed track display, as I don't observe it on my mini
14:10:56lostlogicamiconn/Slasheri: I'm not sure where yet, but when skipping off buffer, the taginfo_ready for the new track is being set to false for some reason, causing the filename to show instead, the taginfo is still available, so I'm chasing that down.
14:11:14amiconn(which I didn't update for a day or so)
14:11:45MikachuMyth1: putting it on should get you a few testers
14:12:58lostlogicamiconn: nevermind, I just realized why the taginfo is getting hidden temporarily *duh*
14:14:25pirokoamicon: battery meter on 4g is up and running. it says i'm at 77% which sounds about right, but the runtime estimate is 7 hours, which is probably off, as we know.
14:14:57amiconnpiroko: I've committed the 2 changes meanwhile, for all ipods...
14:15:04amiconnThatnks for testing :)
14:15:29pirokono problem. i enjoy helping :)
14:15:53lostlogicpiroko: tell me you slept at some point.
14:16:24pirokolostlogic: i slept at around 3 i think waiting for gcc-arm-elf to compile
14:16:55lostlogicamiconn: this damn buffer free error is really frustrating, and often takes hours of audio playback for me to reproduce, grr.
14:16:59lostlogicpiroko: heeh
14:17:10Myth1crashd: What kind of cpu does the ipod have?
14:17:25Myth1which frequency?
14:17:29daurnimatorlostlogic: you have an ipod?
14:17:35lostlogicdaurnimator: yes, 5g\
14:17:44crashdMyth1: you'd be best asking a dev abou that
14:17:58daurnimatori'm just taking photos of my mp3 player now
14:18:06amiconnMyth1: At least up to 80MHz for all ipods. We use a maximum of 75MHz
14:18:11crashdthere you go ;)
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14:18:26daurnimatoronly 80mhz?
14:18:28pirokoamiconn: but there's two processors, aren't there?
14:18:33lostlogicdaurnimator: dual core.
14:18:39lostlogicwe only use one so far
14:18:41Myth1puuh, 80mhz. I'm not sure if this is enough :(
14:18:44amiconnThere are 2 cores, but we only use one
14:18:58daurnimatorwhat about 5g?
14:18:58crashdworth a spin anyway Myth1 :)
14:19:06Myth1sure, we'll find out ;)
14:19:09pirokowhen we figure out how to use two... man that's going to be nice
14:19:49amiconnMyth1: Iriver has 140MHz coldfire. We use a maximum of 124MHz.
14:19:55Mikachuwhy don't we use 80mhz?
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14:20:22daurnimatorwhy don't you dev for the gmini 402, and use one 200Mhz and a 120Mhz
14:20:41amiconnHowever, it seems to me that the 75MHz arm is comparable to the 124MHz coldfire. DRAM on coldfire is excessively slow though
14:21:08pirokoamiconn: ... after turning off frequency scaling on my 4g, the audio thread reads that it's at 11mhz constantly...
14:21:22Mikachuthat's a fun sideeffect
14:21:23amiconnThat's just wrong display
14:21:28pirokoah ok
14:21:36pirokoit's really hauling ass then? ;)
14:21:37Mikachuyou can change the frequency define in the .h file in firmware/export if you want
14:21:40amiconnIt really runs at a constant 75MHz w/o scaling
14:22:02pirokoi'll run it for about an hour to see if I get the random reboot of annoyance
14:22:44lostlogicdaurnimator: since when is 80mhz slow!?
14:23:17daurnimatorsince bout 2000
14:23:48pirokoit's about the same speed as my laptop
14:25:31daurnimatori doubt an ipod can run - eg, windows 95 @ the speed of a 486, if at all
14:26:00Mikachufor one thing windows is only for x86 arch
14:26:12daurnimatorwindows ce then
14:26:12pirokoi run dos or linux on mine :P
14:26:35amiconnMikachu: For one thing this isn't entirely true. WinNT 4 was for x86, ppc, alpha and mips (iirc)
14:26:41pirokowe could steal the source from microsoft and port it
14:26:46Mikachu95 then
14:26:58Mikachui didn't know that though
14:28:08amiconnNot sure about the mips part. but alpha I know for sure. Vobis (a german PC distributor) even sold alpha-PCs back then
14:28:16Avemh I recall my p54 100MHz consuming something like 60% while decoding mp3, but this was the early days
14:28:35Avehow does arm compare to pentium of those days
14:28:51crashdlike for like comparisons dont really work across architectures
14:29:06ashridahparticularly since older pentiums were CISC and arm is RISC, from memory
14:29:48Avemakes sense
14:30:03Mikachuyou can still comparing cpu usage at a particular task
14:30:15Mikachuit doesn't tell you much about how they would do on other tasks though
14:30:19slartiashridah: you can arguably still call x86 a cisc arch
14:30:44Mikachuit certainly hasn't got less instructions since then :)
14:30:46ashridahslarti: well, nowadays it's implemented on top of RISC, from memory
14:31:05slartisort of. that transmeta chip definitely was wasn't it?
14:31:08slarticrusoe or something?
14:31:31Myth1crashd: Do you have an email where i can send it to (would be easiest)?
14:31:39lostlogicYAY! finally got a good logf of the thing going to hell in a handbasket.
14:31:40ashridahslarti: no, they *all* are.
14:31:48Mikachulostlogic: hooray
14:31:51crashdprobably should have pm'ed that :P
14:31:53Avedoes the rb wiki have some pages about ipod cpu's and whatnot
14:32:09Mikachutry the ipodlinux wiki
14:32:23Aveshould've guessed <g>
14:33:27amiconnMyth1: The patch tracker would be a good place...
14:33:38Mikachui did mention that twice :)
14:33:51Aveoh yes, this is the stuff
14:34:58Myth1mail is under its way. its 6meg since i included everything
14:37:20 Quit Rondom ("I'm leaving on a jetplane, don't know when I'll be back again...")
14:38:44Myth1if its too slow i can remove the filter calculation, which should speed things pretty up
14:39:05crashdMyth1: are you sending the whole source tree then?
14:39:27 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
14:39:31Myth1yes :|
14:39:44Mikachuwhyever for?
14:39:59 Join TeaSea [0] (
14:40:21pirokoshould my battery meter on my ipod be unchanging when it's plugged in and playing?
14:40:29 Join marevalo [0] (
14:41:14pirokonevermind. it just went down one percent
14:41:32pirokoi'm in a usb port of my computer. i'm gonna plug it into ac to see what happens
14:45:00daurnimatorfor the 5g ipod
14:45:10daurnimatorare you adding more video codecs?
14:45:28 Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
14:45:37Mikachumore than 0?
14:45:37LinusNlostlogic: there?
14:45:48crashdMyth1: got it, thanks
14:45:50lostlogicLinusN: yep
14:46:13LinusNwhat are you trying to accomplish with the mutex thing?
14:46:21Myth1crashd: Great. I'm looking forward to the result ;)
14:46:23Aveif IpodRuntime is correct, it'd appear that rb currently gets something lke 60% of the runtime wrt apple firmware
14:46:50lostlogicThe codec thread needs to wait of the audio thread to execute an event
14:47:01crashdMyth1: might take a little while to compile, am not on my development box
14:47:21 Quit Genre9mp3 ()
14:47:55Myth1crasd: ok, then I'll be away now. Guess I'm back in 20 minutes. Do you think its ready then?
14:48:05crashdyeah, id say so
14:48:10crashdcant seem to get make to rebuild the utils tho
14:48:12crashdwhich is a pain
14:48:18linuxstbMyth1: I'll be happy to test as well - on an iriver H140 and a couple of ipods.
14:48:49LinusNlostlogic: ok, so you need a signalling mechanism?
14:49:34amiconnSomeone also needs to check which thread(s) never sleep on swcodec, and fix that
14:49:35lostlogicLinusN: hmm, interesting way of putting it, I could just use a queue.
14:49:45amiconnIt will probably save quite some battery
14:50:06LinusNlostlogic: yes
14:50:12lostlogicamiconn: the audio and codec thread both go to sleep on a no-time-out queue_wait when the system is idle.
14:50:15lostlogicLinusN: thanks
14:50:28 Join PuGz_ [0] (
14:50:44PuGz_hey guys. i am looking into putting rockbox on my ipod 5G.
14:50:54Myth1linuxstb: OK, you can grab it here: (slow connection, but should work)
14:50:59PuGz_i use linux and like ogg files over mp3 for the obvious reason
14:51:23PuGz_i am looking of the screenshots of rockbox... and it appears to be text only... is this true even when you have a video ipod?
14:51:25crashdlinuxstb: i can fwd it from gmail if you'd like
14:51:25MikachuMyth1: is there any particular reason you won't put a diff on the tracker?
14:51:32lostlogicLinusN: doesn't solve my "I'm going to stop working now and either lock up or skip tracks forever" bug that happens once in quite a while unfortunately.
14:52:00MikachuPuGz_: the screenshots are a bit more spartan than they have to be
14:52:34LinusNlostlogic: i haven't delved much into that issue, so i don't know muc habout it
14:52:55Myth1Mikachu: Yes, the source was developed by a friend of mine and me 7 years ago. I have asked him via email if he will allow it to go open source, but did not get an answer yet. But this should be no real problem.
14:53:01linuxstbMyth1: Thanks. crashd: It's OK - I'll download the bz2.
14:53:04 Join mikearthur [0] (
14:53:12MikachuMyth1: okay
14:53:27peturPuGz_: have a look here for some nicer stuff:
14:54:03lostlogicLinusN: I'm sure I'll track it down, I've at least got a logf of it happening now ;)
14:54:56*amiconn is still puzzled about the coldfire pipeline
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14:56:10 Join thouters [0] (
14:58:02pirokomy battery is dropping while plugged in to ac...
14:58:10PuGz_Mikachu: petur: WOAH! that looks HEAPS better than here:
14:58:23PuGz_Mikachu: petur: I saw those screenshots and thought - cool... but ugly
14:58:40PuGz_Mikachu: petur: those ones you linked too look psycho! thats SOO awesome!
14:58:41PuGz_i am in!
14:58:41crashdMyth1^AWAY: comes up with a codec failture
14:58:44pirokoslowly, but dropping. cpu too fast to keep a charge maybe?
14:59:25 Join mikolas [0] (
14:59:31crashdMyth1^AWAY: something to do with 'couldnt load codec:'
14:59:34crashdbut it goes off the screen
14:59:53piroko... ok now it's going up... I'm confused...
15:00:09PuGz_Question: I really like the way that rockbox doesnt use apple's database... but how can you store the album art in the folder structure?
15:00:25PuGz_in the folder?
15:00:59mikolaswhat's up with playback.c? is it only x5 that's not working well with latest cvs builds or is it also with other architectures?
15:01:11PuGz_eg: /mnt/ipod/Metallica/Master of Puppets/album.bmp
15:01:31peturPuGz_: current CVS version doesn't support album art yet
15:01:41peturthere's a patch available however
15:01:45MikachuPuGz_: yeah that's how it will work eventually i thnk
15:01:50 Join bluebrother [0] (
15:02:11mikolaschanging songs takes ages on my x5, or more accurately the previous song keeps playing a few seconds after selecting a new one
15:02:13PuGz_ahhh - i really like the idea of album art! so that will be cool eventually
15:02:32Hansmaulwurf(mikolas) changing songs takes ages on my x5, or more accurately the previous song keeps playing a few seconds after selecting a new one <−−−− thats normal
15:02:39PuGz_i want to install rockbox now, but want to upgrade it later to get album art when it comes out... i dont need to wipe the music i have when i do this do i?
15:02:41Hansmaulwurf1 or 2 seconds
15:02:51PuGz_also - CAN rockbox read from apple's database?
15:02:52peturPuGz_: no
15:02:57mikolasis it related to x5 or coldfire in general?
15:02:58PuGz_petur: sweet
15:03:11Mikachumikolas: it's a work in progress
15:03:18Hansmaulwurfmidkay: on my H120 it is too
15:03:34peturPuGz_: once you have RB installed it's just a matter of copying over the new version
15:04:23LinusNlostlogic: are there occasions where a codec can sleep?
15:04:30PuGz_petur: sweet
15:04:33PuGz_also - CAN rockbox read from apple's database?
15:04:49LinusNfor example, mpa.c only yields()
15:04:54PuGz_no probs - i hate it anyway
15:05:21Hansmaulwurfi will start a battery benchmark with a december build now. hope there is no big difference to the actual build
15:05:31peturPuGz_: RB has it's own tag stuff that's generated on the fly
15:05:34linuxstbcrashd: Are you testing the sid player on an ipod?
15:05:35 Join fiftyfour123 [0] (
15:05:43lostlogicLinusN: during decoding? The only one is the one I just introduced whiel it waits for the audio thread to execute a track change.
15:05:45DomasoFancan someone help me install the bootloader? I just patched the h300 1.29 firmware. maybe someone has icq or msn please inform me over these programs cause i have problems fast scrolling irc chat windows. thank you. MSN: or ICQ: 121823966
15:06:22Hansmaulwurfuh shit, december build was the old sound volume system. shit
15:06:25LinusNlostlogic: i know that you haven't worked on the codecs, but i'm trying to get a grip on the battery consumption
15:06:56lostlogicLinusN: come to think of it, they do sleep(1) if they hit a full pcmbuffer situation.
15:07:06LinusNi wonder if it might be better if the codecs slept once in a while instead of constantly working
15:07:43lostlogicLinusN: yeah, I see what you're saying, when they hit that full pcmbuffer situation, they can sleep for pcmbuflength - (watermark) before they need to be awake again.
15:07:44LinusNlostlogic: not mpa.c
15:07:56 Quit fiftyfour123 (Client Quit)
15:08:05lostlogicLinusN: the sleep happens in the callback playback.c:codec_pcmbuf_insert_split_callback
15:08:58LinusNthe current approach attempts to decode at all times, and boosts if necessary
15:09:17lostlogicLinusN: I think that should sleep for pcmbuf_seconds - watermark_seconds, if you agree, I'll make it so and we can test
15:09:24LinusNi wonder what would happen if it instead slept and always boosted during decoding
15:10:12amiconnLinusN: On iriver, i2c communication with the PCF is interrupt-protected anyway, correct?
15:10:56amiconnThen we could make the interrupt disable happen in i
15:11:16amiconnpcf50606_i2c_start(), and the enable in pcf50606_i2c_stop(), and use precalculated port values conjunction with move.l, instead of the atomic instrcutions
15:11:51LinusNamiconn: most of the pcf comm is done in an interrupt, but it can still be interrupted by higher levels (audio)
15:12:18LinusNi don't think that's critical, however
15:12:39*linuxstb listens to a SID track on an h140...
15:12:45lostlogicLinusN: this will eat crossfade.
15:12:52amiconnWell, nothing else must modify gpio if we don't use the atomic instructions
15:12:57 Join Moos [0] (
15:13:17LinusNlostlogic: huh?
15:13:33lostlogicLinusN: crossfade depends on the pcm buffer having crossfadeoutsecs of data in it when the crossfade is initiated.
15:13:52LinusNlostlogic: do we know when that happens?
15:13:55amiconnBut with the atomic instructions, even i2c_outb (the simplest one) is way slower than 400kHz at 11MHz cpu clock
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15:14:16lostlogicLinusN: no, we don't have "I'm 30 seconds from the end of the track, start filling up the buffer" detection
15:14:26LinusNamiconn: we rarely run at 11mhz
15:14:30Myth1linuxstb: Is it working on h140?
15:14:52lostlogicLinusN: we can still have it sleep, but I fear this might be another place that crossfade users take a hit, because it won't be able tos leep as long.
15:14:59amiconnLinusN: Rarely, but we do (radio screen). Maybe that'll have to go anyway, if recording from radio gets added
15:15:18lostlogiclemme just see how it behaves w/o crossfade first.
15:16:10linuxstbMyth1: Yes, but slowly....
15:16:13amiconnI'd expect sleeping at high clock will drain more battery than our current back & forth switching
15:16:23Myth1linuxstb: So it hangs?
15:16:52linuxstbNo, it works. It just plays about a second of music, then pauses for about 4-5 seconds, then plays another second....
15:17:15Myth1oh jesus, this is totally unusable
15:17:22Myth1how fast is the h140?
15:17:23pirokoamiconn: my battery drains on ac when it's playing, but charges when it's not playing. should that happen even without frequency scaling?
15:17:29 Quit lee-qid_ ("Trillian (")
15:18:39Myth1are codecs run at the highest possible frequency, or does the codec have to enable the boost mode?
15:18:41linuxstbMyth1: Don't worry - there are a lot of optimisations possible. For a start, I'm going to put some things into the fast IRAM.
15:18:48 Join warthawg [0] (
15:19:14warthawgnice review of rockbox on ipod at:
15:19:33Myth1linuxstb: Feel free to optimize it, but do me a favour and send your changes back to
15:20:05Mikachuwhy is rockbox sure not for everyone?
15:20:25Mikachu(the review)
15:20:33Hansmaulwurfwhat review?
15:20:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:21:01lostlogicMyth1: that's something LinusN and I are working on −− the pcm buffer boosts for the codec though to keep itself full, so the codec doesn't have to worry about it
15:21:34 Quit `3nergy (Client Quit)
15:21:42LinusNamiconn: why would the codec sleep while boosted?
15:22:16warthawgHansmaulwurf nice review of rockbox on ipod at:
15:22:20amiconn[15:07:06] <LinusN> i wonder if it might be better if the codecs slept once in a while instead of constantly working
15:22:31warthawgMikachu: i think he means many people will be afraid to install it
15:22:45LinusNamiconn: yes, but why sleep while still boosted?
15:22:48Hansmaulwurfmaybe because rockbox is customizeable
15:23:03LinusNamiconn: it would of course unboost before sleeping
15:23:03Hansmaulwurfmeans, u need a bit of time to get the settings u want
15:23:37amiconnLinusN: Hmm.
15:24:08amiconnStill even sleeping at 45MHz will drain power, with no result
15:24:30Myth1How do you put variables in to the IRAM? And how big is it?
15:24:39 Join boza [0] (
15:24:41LinusNamiconn: perhaps, that's why i was wondering
15:24:49amiconn...and the supply current will vary more. I think constantly decoding makes more sense
15:25:05bozahi is there a gbc emulator for rockbox ? on ipods
15:25:24amiconn...unless the codec keeps up even at 45MHz. Then it should of course sleep from time to time
15:25:38amiconn(wav, aiff, flac, ...)
15:26:09 Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:26:53lostlogicit seems not to be worth it, because the boost ratio ends up being much higher, and all we get is that the codec thread sleeps for a short while instead of trying to decode at low freq for a longer while.
15:27:26lostlogicbut I haven't actually compared battery life, just looked at the debug screen
15:27:44amiconnLinusN: Perhaps something to measure:
15:27:49pirokomy battery is definately dropping on ac... :(
15:28:09lostlogicpiroko: you ar charging with a USB adapter and backlight and decoding active, yes?
15:28:30pirokono backlight, with usb adapter plugged into the wall and decoding, yes
15:28:38lostlogicpiroko: so far we only draw 100mA from the USB mode chargers, because we don't know how to adjust it.
15:28:42amiconnAt both 45 and 124MHz, measure the current draw with a tiny loop, and with the cpu sent to sleep (both with interrupts disabled)
15:28:44daurnimatorhey devs: how do you implement codecs into rockbox?
15:28:47lostlogicpiroko: if you had a 'real' ac adapter taht didn't use the USB cable it'd charge
15:28:52daurnimatordo you make them from scrath
15:28:54daurnimatorport libs etc
15:28:56daurnimatoror what?
15:28:56PuGz_i just installed the latest rockbox cvs to my ipod for the first time - it seems to work... but is ugly atm. is this just a case of me needing to get more themes?
15:28:58lostlogicpiroko: eventually we'll figure out how to draw 500mA from the wall->USB
15:28:59pirokolostlogic: what about firewire?
15:29:06lostlogicpiroko: firewire shoudl also charge faster
15:29:16 Join `3nergy [0] (
15:29:23warthawgPuGz_, what kind of ipod do you have?
15:29:26lostlogicpiroko: we don't do any control on it, but it should detect and charge rapidly, as firewire supports higher power consumption
15:29:30PuGz_warthawg: 5G video
15:29:45pirokook. i'm just testing to see if my ipod crashes with frequency scaling turned off.
15:29:52lostlogicpiroko: nod
15:30:04Slasherilostlogic: hmm, you should handle the usb mode detection with the codec_callback_queue
15:30:13pirokoso far so good... i'm beginning to think it IS the cpu frequency scaling that's crashing it...
15:30:18lostlogicSlasheri: shit. yes.
15:30:21bozais the gameboy color emulator full screen on rockbox on ipods ?
15:30:38warthawgi really like the Rockamo-Nano Blue theme and WPS
15:30:41Mikachufullscreen or not is probably not the biggest problem
15:31:16bozaMikachu: But is it fullscreen , i am just asking
15:31:33linuxstbMyth1: We have 48KB of IRAM available for a codec. I'll send you my patch in a few minutes.
15:32:19Myth1linuxstb: Did your patch improve performance? How fast is it now?
15:32:28lostlogicSlasheri: do { queue_wait(&codec_callback_queue, &ev); } while ( != Q_CODEC_REQUEST_COMPLETE);
15:32:47lostlogicseem right?
15:32:50Myth1linuxstb: You can also try to outcomment the filter calculation, this should speed things up
15:32:57Slasherilostlogic: yes, and if the usb events happens in middle between that, it will get lost
15:32:58lostlogicor do I hafta _do_ something if it's SYS_USB?
15:33:10lostlogicah, I hafta do something.
15:33:14Slasheriso you need to check for the SYS_USB_CONNECTED event
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15:35:00 Quit roeliooo ("CGI:IRC")
15:35:01Slasheriin fact i don't think the callback_queue is really worth the problems
15:35:26lostlogichave a better solution? those calls must be synchronized.
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15:36:19Slasherihmm, sounds bad..
15:37:01lostlogicagain, if you have a better solution, I'd love to hear it, but if the codec requests a new track, the audio thread must process that request to move the buffer along, and the codec thread must not resume decoding until that is done.
15:37:04pirokois there a reason why you wouldn't crank up the anti-skip buffer to something really high? crossfade doesn't work with it set at 5 seconds but does at 3 minutes.
15:37:14Membrilloare the radio presets stored in a file somewhere. For example when i update a build what file do i delete so my presets arent overwritten?
15:37:19pirokocrap gotta go. be back later
15:37:52bluebrotherMembrillo: no. The presets file isn't in the distribution.
15:38:03Membrillook nice
15:38:12Slasherilostlogic: well, i haven't looked into the new code yet enough to be able to recommend anything. but that's is definately a new problem in the code then
15:38:32 Join luckz_ [0] (
15:38:36lostlogicyeah, my mutex solution that nobody liked _worked_ which the new solution causes USB to not work, so...
15:38:40lostlogicLinusN: need ideas.
15:38:56amiconnI think we should have 2 types of queues
15:39:08luckz_I think my X5 has been playing all night. gnah.
15:39:13amiconnToday, all queues are publicly know, so receive broadcast events.
15:39:32LinusNlostlogic: handlilng usb isn't that hard
15:39:34amiconnThere should be the possibility to have 'private' queues
15:39:47LinusNamiconn: yes, why not?
15:39:48 Quit luckz ("Me Be All Gone!!1")
15:39:48 Nick luckz_ is now known as luckz (
15:39:57luckzwoe me.
15:40:09lostlogicHmm... I guess you're right, I can just return false if it's USB.
15:40:53linuxstbMyth1^AWAY: I've now put almost the entire codec in IRAM (the main thing missing is the 64KB memory buffer). I think it's now about 50% realtime - i.e. the spurts of music are about the same length as the spurts of silence.
15:40:55Slasheriand then you need to activate the usb mode.. but i think you can do that in the audio thread for both queues at once
15:41:25Membrillowhat other parts of the builds would people want to be excluded when updating. Apart from.... viewers.config, WPS files and .rock files
15:41:28LinusNamiconn, lostlogic : you can create a private queue by calling queue_clear() instead of queue_init()
15:42:49lostlogicis it correct that every thread must acknowledge USB?
15:43:07lostlogicthen this does need to be a public queue, and I just need to return correctly on that event.
15:43:18Slasherilostlogic: no, but every queue initialized with queue_init must respond to it
15:43:29amiconnThe USB thread expects as many acks as there are public queues
15:43:52LinusNlostlogic: as amiconn said, it is about the queues, not the threads
15:45:02 Part PuGz_
15:46:13Hansmaulwurfdecember builds have no battery benchmark?
15:49:02muesli__i guess we should use some music files which are free of copyright to enbable runtime benchmarks under comparable conditions
15:49:16LinusNmachinae supremacy :-)
15:49:48LinusNthey are of course copyrighted, but freely available on their site
15:50:14XavierGrgah! It is unexpectedly rainy today. It never rains here on April.... strange!
15:50:25lostlogichmm, and if my queue acks before the thread actually becomes idle?
15:50:39obois it okay for a new thread to do while(1)..queue_wait..switch...yield() ?? or will that eat too much cpu time?
15:50:42LinusNthen you have a bug
15:51:04muesli__XavierGr i would wonder if it wouldnt rain here in april
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15:51:10lostlogicso it's not possible to have two queues on the same thread that both need to acknowledge?
15:51:12LinusNobo: no
15:51:25PuGz_hey guys - can i boot into the apple firmware with the rockbox bootloader and firmware installed?
15:51:27LinusNlostlogic: yes it is
15:51:39lostlogicLinusN: ... how?
15:51:48 Join Daishi [0] (
15:52:00XavierGrmuesli: :)
15:52:08LinusNthe usb-idle mode is only about hard drive access
15:52:10amiconnlostlogic: The thread doesn't need to be idle, it just has to back off anything ata related
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15:52:27oboLinusN: sorry, was that a no, don't do that, or a no, it won't be too hungry?
15:52:31amiconn...and must hold back until it receives the unplug ebent
15:52:33lostlogicah, well this thread never does that, so I can just usb_acknowledge() and let the _other_ thread wait for disconnect?
15:52:40lostlogicer not other thread
15:52:44lostlogicother queue
15:52:46LinusNobo: that was for lostlogic
15:53:03LinusNobo: yes, that is perfectly ok, since queue_wait() yields
15:53:33oboLinusN: okay, thanks
15:53:36LinusNlostlogic: or perhaps use my queue_clear() trick to create a private queue
15:54:12lostlogicLinusN: hmm... might make USB entry slower, but it would be much simpler. will do.
15:55:01 Quit ashridah ("Leaving")
15:55:53linuxstbMyth1^AWAY: Bad news (as you've bought an H320) - your SID codec is realtime on an iPod...
15:56:25PuGz_got it - hold menu when booting - sweet!
15:56:28 Part PuGz_
15:58:13XavierGrlinuxstb: How is that possible?
15:58:36linuxstbI blame the slow DRAM on the irivers.
15:59:01 Join adiamas [0] (n=adiamas@
15:59:14linuxstbThe main C64 memory (64KB) is too big for IRAM - I expect that's the bottleneck.
15:59:50adiamashehehe we made NewsForge for the iPod port.. i love it
15:59:56linuxstbThe rest of the codec fits in IRAM, it's just that large buffer which doesn't.
16:00:50linuxstbOnly about 3 months after we first got sound....
16:01:23LinusNi gotta go now
16:01:27LinusNcu around
16:01:32 Part LinusN
16:02:33crashdlinuxstb: yeah, 5g
16:04:14linuxstbcrashd: Is it working OK for you?
16:04:19lostlogicappologies to all who can't enter USB with one version of CVS, but it's fixed now _P
16:04:54crashdlinuxstb: no, it throws a 'cant load codec' splash
16:05:00crashdand then sits in the WPS window
16:05:04adiamasman i really need to get back into code
16:05:28linuxstbcrashd: Odd. It's working fine for me. I did have to do a "make clean" in tools/ first though.
16:05:52crashdim not at home atm, so ill try it again when i get back in an hour or so
16:05:54crashdit built fine
16:06:10crashdhave you got your patch for it available?
16:06:58linuxstbYes, I'll email it to you.
16:07:07crashdok, cool, ;)
16:07:32linuxstbWe all know :)
16:07:45crashdyeah, i was jsut rubbing salt into my wound
16:08:36linuxstbEmail sent.
16:11:08luckzhow's progress on 3.0?
16:16:10 Quit Membrillo ()
16:17:51warthawgslashdot is picking up the review
16:18:04warthawgbut it wont post for awhile
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16:28:38 Nick Myth1^AWAY is now known as Myth1 (
16:28:49Myth1what, the sid codec works on iPod? Damn
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16:29:24*daurnimator throws a holy hand granade @ Myth1
16:29:36crashdMyth1: it might well do, but it didnt for me, although i did do it in a rush
16:29:37Jungti1234lostlogic: you there?
16:29:39crashdim gonna make it clean later
16:29:59linuxstbMyth1: Yes, I'm listening now... It still needs more optimising, but it seems to be _very_ slightly faster than realtime.
16:31:05Myth1i have removed the filter routines, lets see how fast this is
16:31:31DBUGEnqueued KICK daurnimator
16:31:31*daurnimator throws a holy hand grenade @ Myth1 ,8 ,4BoOm
16:31:40 Join spitball [0] (
16:32:40spitballrockbox smells
16:34:22CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
16:34:22*daurnimator lobs a holy hand grenade at spitball ,8 ,4"Halleluja!" ,8 ,4BoOm
16:36:17warthawgspitball, does your mommy let you go on the intarweb all by yourself?
16:38:19***Alert Mode level 1
16:38:19*daurnimator deploys a ,12concrete donkey over the top of spitball ,12"EEYORRRRRRREEEEE" ,4BoOm
16:39:21crashdthat was almost 10 minutes of sheer idiocy, well done guys
16:39:40 Quit [TCK] (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:41:50spitballi was just trying to stir up some conversation
16:42:20spitballand yes, she does
16:42:48warthawgyou must be a developer, spitball
16:42:56warthawgwhat kind of code do you write?
16:44:39 Part warthawg ("You never miss your warthawg til the well runs dry")
16:45:07 Join damaki__ [0] (
16:46:03Myth1linuxstb: I send you an email with disabled sid filters
16:47:05marevalohi all, I've just finished the very first draft of the Plugin Usability Guide
16:47:25marevaloyou can check it at the wiki at:
16:47:51marevaloand give some feedback (midkay has already polished some of my spanglish)
16:48:20***Alert Mode OFF
16:48:35marevaloI'm thinking about adding some screenshots
16:50:11linuxstbMyth1: Your code doesn't compile for me. I see you didn't apply all of my patch....
16:50:26Myth1linuxstb: Oops, did I forgot something?
16:50:41linuxstbYes - mostly the "double-declaration" of the functions.
16:51:22linuxstbAFAIK, the ICODE_ATTR can only be used in a prototype, not in the declaration of the function itself.
16:51:30Myth1sorry, I've never worked with diff before
16:51:42Hansmaulwurfhow can i do a battery benchmark with an old build which doesnt include the plugin? stop the time with a clock?
16:51:54linuxstbYou just needed to type "patch -p0 < sid_iram.diff" against your original file, and that would have applied the patch.
16:52:16Myth1oh, sorry
16:52:31Myth1I will adjust that, you are right, I missed that from your diff
16:52:44Myth1but anyway, it compiles fine here
16:53:00Myth1is this compiler specific? I use gcc 3.4.6
16:53:11 Quit adiamas (Remote closed the connection)
16:53:21linuxstbIt's because the simulator defines IDATA_ATTR etc to just be empty.
16:53:45linuxstbIf you install the m69k cross-compiler, you can do test builds for the real target.
16:53:55linuxstbI mean m68k
16:54:35 Nick carini[away] is now known as carini (
16:55:19 Quit spitball ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
16:55:33Myth1yes i have installed the m68k cross compiler, I'll correct it and send you another version
16:57:36Myth1i have an idea: it should be possible to partially map the c64 memory to iram. at least for the c64-stack this should be very easy
17:00:17 Quit petur ("miller time")
17:01:01 Quit damaki_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:01:40lostlogicJungti1234: just back.
17:03:03linuxstbMyth1: That sounds useful. I've got to go out now for a few hours - feel free to email me another test version later.
17:03:49Myth1email is under its way
17:03:55Myth1thank you for all the support
17:04:22 Quit Daishi ("Client exiting...")
17:04:59lostlogicJungti1234: looking into your main_menu scrolling whatzit now.
17:05:16lostlogicMikachu: you still having the Cpu stay boosted on stop?
17:05:45Myth1btw: Does anyone know if it is possible to output assembler source with gcc? I'd like to check how gcc resolves large switch-cases
17:06:03lostlogicMyth1: add -save-temps to your cflgas
17:06:15lostlogicMyth1: outputs preprocessed C and asm
17:06:22Jungti1234hey lostlogic
17:06:29lostlogicJungti1234: hi
17:06:34Jungti1234Do you need me?
17:06:42Myth1sorry, but how do I change my cflags?
17:07:02lostlogicMyth1: in builddir/Makefile
17:07:19lostlogicJungti1234: I'll need you to test, but you can do that tomorrow if you'd prefer.
17:07:30Mooslostlogic: hi, yeah still cpu_boost at stop
17:07:31lostlogicbecause it'll be a few minutes (30?) before I have a patch ready.
17:07:37lostlogicMoos: hates you.
17:07:51Jungti1234lostlogic: now is tomorrow
17:07:52Myth1should I add export CFLAG=-save-temps ?
17:08:02lostlogicMyth1: there should be a CFLAGS line already
17:08:06lostlogicjust add -save-temps to it
17:08:07Mooslostlogic: I'm sure you'll find out ; )
17:08:15Myth1no there isn't :(
17:08:18lostlogicJungti1234: yes, I know now is tomorrow, but I mean another tomorrow.
17:08:29Mooshaha : )
17:08:35Jungti1234I have no time now
17:08:35lostlogicMyth1: whoops, it's called "GCCOPTS
17:08:49Myth1ok, that works ;)
17:08:52lostlogicJungti1234: ok, I'll make a patch and post it, and ask me about it when you are awake again
17:09:13Jungti1234I'm preparing examination.
17:09:23lostlogicJungti1234: enjoy
17:09:34Jungti1234I can't connect often because I'm busy.
17:09:35MoosJungti 1234: good luck
17:09:41Jungti1234:) thanks
17:09:57 Join Daishi [0] (
17:10:01lostlogicJungti1234: oh, one thing, which lines are too long on that screen?
17:10:13Jungti1234what's mean?
17:10:27lostlogicJungti1234: never mind, any of them could be now, they all need to scroll. Happy studying.
17:11:00Jungti1234Can't other person test?
17:11:08lostlogicanother Korean could.
17:11:16Mooshehe : )
17:11:40Jungti1234Perhaps, all they are busy.
17:12:06Jungti1234here is exam period now.
17:12:30lostlogicis the patch to test (so it was easier than I thought)
17:12:40lostlogicperhaps post it for another korean to try.
17:13:06Jungti1234Don't you have H300?
17:14:59 Quit Jungti1234 ()
17:15:28lostlogic*sigh* I don't have an H300 and I don't read Korean, so me fixing a problem with Korean strings being too long... he left.
17:16:00Moospost it to tracker?
17:16:15lostlogic*shrgu* he's patient like a hamster, and will ask me again soon.
17:16:24Mooshaha XD
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17:19:06Mooslostlogic: playback seems more robuste and stable now, congrates
17:20:50lostlogicMoos: thanks, still has this damn buffer wrap eat self freeze/die/splode problem :(
17:20:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:23:56DomasoFanhi. i changed my player from an archos to an iriver h 340. I have a few issues with the menus and buttons on this thing. I am blind. Can somebody explain me the buttons on the top of the player?
17:26:41MoosDomasoFan: did you try voices?
17:27:16Moossorry I'm not h3xx user then I can't help you much about buttons much :(
17:27:38lostlogicDomasoFan: the buttons on the face of it?
17:27:42DomasoFanit should work.
17:27:53lostlogicDomasoFan: the center button is select or menu
17:28:10lostlogicDomasoFan: surrounding the center button are 4 directional buttons for skipping and volume and similar operations
17:29:21lostlogicDomasoFan: to the left side of these directional buttons on top is the play/pause/on button and on bottom, the stop/off button
17:29:46lostlogicDomasoFan: to the right, on top there is a record button (not used much in rockbox) and below that the a/b button which we use for quick menus.
17:30:26lostlogicDomasoFan: I don't have an H340 any more, so I can't really go into more detail on the buttons exact functions in rocbkox, but I hope that helps.
17:31:53 Join ts-x [0] (
17:33:36DomasoFanyes thank you.
17:36:35lostlogicDomasoFan: you're welcome, as a warning, there are currently bugs in the voicing on the H340 which may cause playback to stop working, rebooting the player brings it back. We hope to have them fixed by the 3.0 release which is targetted for May 1st.
17:37:00 Part DomasoFan
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17:38:15 Join Captain_Slender [0] (
17:38:46Captain_SlenderDoes um... this channel come with support? >_>
17:40:00crashdlinuxstb: could you possibly send that diff again, gmail seems to have mangled it behind all usefulness
17:40:31Captain_SlenderI'm just tryin' to find out what the deal is with the RockBoy plugin.
17:40:34lostlogicCaptain_Slender: ask questions, we try to answer, especially if they are non-obvious from the documents on the website.
17:41:21Captain_SlenderWell, first off, does it come in the latest (well, yesterdays) version of RockBox for the iPod 5g?
17:41:45Captain_Slender(And it's just hidden from my stupid eyes... >_>)
17:42:34Captain_SlenderI only got onto this whole Rockbox thing yesterday, and i'm pretty impressed if this Rockboy plugin would actually work.
17:42:59lostlogicCaptain_Slender: it is there, and is a viewer for gameboy roms
17:43:12lostlogicso you must install a rom and then 'open it with' rockboy
17:43:52Captain_SlenderLike, just playing a .rom file on the iPod somewhere, and opening it with the plugin?
17:44:21lostlogic(not that I've ever tried the plugin myself, but that's what I hear)
17:45:09MoosI don't remenber neither if ipod 5g reported Rockboy working
17:45:14Captain_SlenderWell, is it supposed to just be in the plugins menu? Cause it's not their for me.
17:45:25Captain_SlenderSo I figure it's either not in the latest version yet.
17:45:38Captain_SlenderOr just placed someone else for download and addon.
17:45:45lostlogicoh yeah, there's patch that only mostly works on 5g or something?
17:45:45 Quit mikearthur (Remote closed the connection)
17:45:46Moosjust put roms on your ipod
17:45:56 Join mikearthur [0] (
17:45:56lostlogicI can't remember :(
17:46:06Captain_SlenderI'll give it a shot, anyway.
17:46:32Mooshehe, yeah this way we'll know too if working or not
17:47:44 Quit mikearthur (Remote closed the connection)
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17:52:40pirokook i'm back and instead of crashing, my ipod is stuck in a play-pause-stop really-quickly-loop
17:53:30lostlogicpiroko: that's a playback bug.
17:53:37lostlogicwhich I'm hunting.... and I ahte.
17:54:44pirokoi started messing with it and it's playing fine again without a reboot :)
17:54:46crashdMyth1, linuxstb: still getting a codec failure on sid ;\
17:54:57pirokolostlogic: i'm happy you know about it though
17:55:14pirokoand it didn't crash, so the random reboot/crash/freeze is most likely a scaling issue
17:55:34lostlogicpiroko: score one for my good guess!
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17:57:28 Nick Kyomi|off is now known as Kyomi (
17:57:32pirokolostlogic: yeah, now the question is, does it only happen on the 4g and how/how often/where/when does it happen?
17:58:17KyomiAlright... either there is something horribly wrong with the battery usage.. or my player's battery has crapped out
17:58:31KyomiI charged it fully last night using the original firmware's way
17:58:31lostlogicpiroko: probably only the 4g, because only the 4g needed the workaround that amiconn mentioned to make scaling work in the first place, and w/o the workaround, the 4g would crash immediately
17:58:42KyomiIts supposed to last around 7-8 hours
17:58:45lostlogicKyomi: what device?
17:58:45KyomiIt lasted barely 4
17:59:04lostlogicKyomi: that is quite low even for an H3x0
17:59:28KyomiCould it be the wps I'm using?
17:59:35KyomiAll I did was listen to music
17:59:42MoosKyomi: settings...
17:59:45KyomiThe light was one a few time
18:00:05lostlogicKyomi: do you use crossfade? do you use the eq? do you use the peakmeter on your wps?
18:00:10lostlogicall of those features reduce battery life.
18:00:15KyomiNo, no and no
18:00:19Moosis EQ on, is crossfeed ON, is peakmeter ON...
18:00:25Moosoppps echo : )
18:00:26lostlogicMoos: I type quicker :-P :-D
18:00:31pirokocrossfade reduces battery life? :( I like crossfade...
18:00:33Mooshehe : )
18:00:47crashdeverything reduces battery life piroko
18:00:57crashdit's a hard life, eh ?
18:01:06KyomiI'm using the Trinity 24-bit v1.0 wps
18:01:26Mooscrashd: crossfade quasi always on here too
18:01:41KyomiAny suggestions?
18:01:51pirokolostlogic: is there anything i can do to give you a debug output or a crash log or something for that scaling bug?
18:02:04Moos@piroko even
18:02:05pirokoit happens quite frequently. it wouldn't be hard to reproduce
18:03:01crashdoohm sid works now
18:03:08lostlogicpiroko: I know nothing about the scaling whatzit
18:03:36pirokodid amiconn make the workaround or just mention it?
18:03:38lostlogicI'm working on some playback bugs (as I said above)
18:03:50pirokook sounds good
18:03:52lostlogicpiroko: I uhh... linuxstb might have made it?
18:04:05lostlogicmemory? I don't have one of those.
18:04:13pirokolinuxstb: you there?
18:04:40*Moos send some empty memory to lostlogic ; )
18:04:51Kyomipiroko: Stop stealing my attention :P
18:04:57KyomiI wanna know whats up with my battery
18:05:35MoosKyomi: try default settings and compare
18:06:43pirokoKyomi: sumimasen...
18:08:40pirokoit's cool how the changes that make it to cvs are discussed here. I can look at the cvs changes and go "hey, i remember that!"
18:09:17 Quit Febs ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
18:12:08 Join quobl [0] (n=quobl@tor/session/external/x-b484875f765eaaed)
18:15:26goffa_and you can look at the people flood in and say thanks or x feature isn't working
18:15:43pirokoyup. like me :)
18:16:10 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
18:16:12goffa_right now playback seems to be messed up
18:16:21goffa_i see lostlogic is working on it though
18:16:38 Join adiamas [0] (n=adiamas@
18:16:58goffa_my player will play for about 30 mins or so... then i'll get choppy audio, artifacts, or it'll stop playing altogether
18:17:02goffa_causing a reboot
18:17:09adiamasand bang.. another rockbox story on /. gotta love it
18:17:20goffa_then its good for another 30 mins or so
18:17:47goffa_cool... everyone of those has to increase publicity
18:17:48pirokogoffa_: for me it kept stopping/pausing/playing really fast
18:18:20pirokois there a way to see who is working on what without asking here?
18:19:19goffa_other than looking a flyspray and guessing, no
18:19:32goffa_lol @ troll on /.
18:19:37goffa_So to start, iTunes sucked in 2003? The only article the submitter had going to be 3 yrs old this year. The other site really doesn't say anything except, I hate paying money for music. So great examples about the lack of iTunes.
18:19:41lostlogicgoffa_: yes, at the first full rebuffer, it eats itself
18:19:41goffa_Really, if you want to advertise the firmware that might void your warranty (not went EULA reading yet), for some added features, then go ahead. I honestly think OGG audio sounds HORRID. But please do not post your own little attack with the article.
18:19:51lostlogicam working on it, might patch in a workaround for the /.ers though will be down soon, guarantee it
18:20:11goffa_he he he
18:20:45 Join TCK [0] (
18:20:47goffa_yeah... i'll take it if they don't .. lol
18:21:59adiamasi don't know.. this isn't the first /.ing we've had to handle
18:22:16adiamasmatter of fact.. i think it's the 4th since '02
18:23:01adiamasthough.. yeah.. im now timing out
18:23:09pirokofunny how everyone here knows what /. is, or doesn't care enough to ask
18:23:32goffa_you had a plug from i'll bet that really rocked your world
18:23:35goffa_oh wait
18:23:51lostlogicadiamas: rockbox + ./ + ipod => DEATH for 2mb pipe
18:24:06adiamashehe yup
18:24:14goffa_you don't even need to include ipod in that
18:24:22goffa_that's just an added bonus
18:24:43goffa_like for extra bw obstruction
18:24:58adiamasim still on my archos recorder... talked to a guy at work about it and he didn't see what the fun/advantage was
18:25:01goffa_cherry on top if you will
18:25:19goffa_he didn't own one did he?
18:25:21adiamasi mentioned the new news posts and he gets all excited 'you didn't tell me it did iPod!'
18:25:28goffa_i have a friend with a karma
18:25:50goffa_he doesn't realize the advantage of rockbox either
18:25:58goffa_other than the fact that i can't stop talking about it :)
18:26:43pirokorockbox is slowwwwing dooowwwnnn.....
18:26:51goffa_i think rockbox would make an ipod useable
18:26:57goffa_out of the box i think they are crap
18:27:12 Quit TeaSea (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:27:19pirokoagreed. i'm willing to put up with experimental software just to get a breath of fresh air
18:27:34pirokoipod's development is so boring. no exciting new features or anything
18:27:52 Join TeaSea [0] ( is my homepage :)
18:28:06goffa_and as far as experimental goes.. it does work pretty well... most of the time
18:28:24goffa_its not mine, but i go there every 2 mins... lol
18:28:30goffa_not quite that often.. but a lot
18:28:31lostlogicI'm sure Linus' et al's coworkers are loving us for this right now.
18:29:25pirokoi used rockbox for pure entertainment yesterday while working outside and it lasted for an hour without crashing! but it had crossfade so it was worth it :)
18:29:42pirokoall the other time's i've just been tinkering
18:30:07goffa_i use it for tunes when i'm not at my house.. which is more than i'm at my house
18:30:18goffa_and in my bedroom
18:30:30goffa_plays while i sleep
18:30:49goffa_or like now when i'm to lazy to drag my ass out of bed
18:32:08goffa_i love holidays
18:32:37 Quit ts-x ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
18:33:17 Quit TCK (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:33:41goffa_i really should shower
18:33:46goffa_then go shopping for a fridge
18:34:04goffa_going to get one i can hook my r/o up to and have it make ice
18:34:43goffa_freezer produces soft ice cream when cranked... handle no longer stays on.. rusted off atm
18:34:57goffa_just hope they are open
18:42:24 Quit marevalo ("Abandonando")
18:45:34goffa_well... time to go shopping... later
18:47:29lostlogicok, back to why buffer fill eats the playing track sometimes.
18:52:35 Quit adiamas ("Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox]")
18:53:15Hansmaulwurfwhen i wanna do a battery benchmark with a december build (no battery benchmark plugin) do i really have to stop the running time with a watch?
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19:00:27goffa_ugh... didn't realize how little the selection was here in town
19:00:45goffa_looks like i'll have to travel 50 miles
19:00:46 Part phil
19:01:24goffa_hmm.. i'll bet its hard to commit updates with the site down
19:01:46lostlogiccommits are still going through, they must do some ToS based QoS or somethign
19:02:59Ribsit has to be said; rockbox looks sexy
19:03:25RibsI'm thinking of putting it on my iPod Video... will this mean I don't have to use silly apps like gtkpod, and I can just copy stuff across?
19:03:32crashdRibs: yeah
19:03:44 Join sando [0] (n=lolsteam@
19:03:53Ribsplus I'll finally be able to play oggs :>
19:03:54crashdrockbox uses a file based browser, and doesnt rely on metadata bases, but comes with it's own "tagcache" which allows you to, if you want
19:04:09*Ribs looks at topic
19:04:26RibsI think my server is up to standard to what you guys need
19:04:29 Quit carini (Remote closed the connection)
19:04:41goffa_grr... no fridge today
19:04:49goffa_store 50 mi away closes in 1 hour
19:05:12lostlogic*sigh* today we need a web server with a phat pipe :-\
19:05:13amiconnThe site seems to be down. Flyspray works - somewhat
19:05:14goffa_maybe they'll be open tomorrow before noon
19:05:36RibsIs the slashdot affect hitting you guys hard?
19:05:47lostlogicRibs: sites only on a 2mb pipe in Sweden ;)
19:05:54goffa_i'll have to check post 5106.. not that anything has changed
19:05:59Ribsit's amazing it works at all ;)
19:06:09 Quit mikearthur ("Konversation terminated!")
19:06:49goffa_heh.. nope... nothin's chnged
19:07:13goffa_i hope one of the devs likes my idea.. well tboy is the one who posted it
19:07:21Ribshow risky is putting rockbox on my iPod?
19:07:31RibsI mean, how often has it broken, and the iPod would be useless?
19:07:33goffa_you can put apple firmware back on
19:07:43Ribswell, that's cool
19:07:47goffa_rockbox doesn't break it
19:08:01lostlogicI think we're at a zero brick ratio (except for ones that we've broken physically taking them apart) for swcodec targets.
19:08:20pirokotagcache isn't working correctly for 4g at least it seems...
19:08:37pirokoso many things to think about :)
19:08:39Ribsis battery life likley to be about the same, or higher?
19:08:47lostlogicmuch worse at this point.
19:08:56goffa_yeah... it may cause me to upgrade to an 80gb drive when it comes out
19:09:05goffa_but that isn't the fault of rockbox
19:09:13Ribsdoes it not use the h/w accelration in the iPod then?
19:09:25lostlogicipod doesn't use hardware decoding afaik
19:09:41pirokono, it doesn't
19:09:42lostlogicat least part of the problem on iopd is the fact that we only use oe of the two CPU cores so far.
19:10:34pirokohow does one figure out how to 'use' a cpu, anyway? poke and prod till something works?
19:11:13goffa_this /. post is fun
19:11:22goffa_making the itunes fanboys come out of the woodwork
19:11:30pirokoi really don't like people sometimes...
19:12:19Ribsah, CPU cores
19:12:28RibsI knew there was some trickery used
19:12:33goffa_saying things like "who needs another codec? only the evil pirates, itunes works fine for me" (not realizing what itunes sound like compared to other file formats
19:12:58pirokoyeah. i've heard ogg at 64kbps compared to other formats, and it was INCREDIBLE
19:14:06goffa_yeah... but still at that
19:14:19goffa_if they sold ogg at 64k i'd complain about that too
19:15:10goffa_lossy shouldn't be sold.. should be used for sampling... i believe that they should be bundled with lossless for those who can't/don't know how to encode
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19:16:13Ribsgoffa_: I think offers lossless...
19:16:31goffa_yeah.. there are a few sites that do
19:16:38goffa_i support that to a certain degree
19:16:46goffa_but the price isn't lower than cd yet
19:17:08goffa_i pay about $3-$8 for my cds
19:17:15goffa_joined going to try that out
19:17:22 Quit dpro ("BRB")
19:18:17goffa_don't get me wrong... i believe artists should be paid... but i don't believe in blind purchasing based on hype
19:18:44goffa_so i guess i'm a theif because i sample music before i purchase it.. if i dont purchase it, i don't keep it
19:18:49pirokoI'll download a song or two from a band, then if I like them I'll buy the cd.
19:18:54RibsThere isn't anything in the UK yet which doesn't have DRM
19:19:08Ribssadly, even the company I work for only offer them as DRM'd wma files :/
19:19:11goffa_yeah.. that's punishment for purchasing
19:20:12goffa_i like the article i read about Content Restriction And Punishment or Content Restriction And Protection
19:20:22goffa_whichever one you want to say to complete the acronym
19:20:41Myth1good news, I've received mail that the sid engine can go open source
19:21:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:21:10Myth1so how do I officially contribude my code?
19:21:40goffa_ask lostlogic
19:21:44goffa_if he's still here :)
19:22:13lostlogicMyth1: post it on the patch tracker is the best way.
19:22:54crashdMyth1: works on 5g btw
19:23:00crashdbut i havent got the diff on yet
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19:28:11goffa_food... bbl... going to walk over to the bowling alley
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19:29:59bozais the gameboy emulator , fullscreen
19:30:08t0mason some targets... yes
19:31:04bozaon ipods
19:31:24pirokonot greyscale
19:31:31bozaoh ok
19:32:07bozaso why dont you guys use the code from IPL for the greyscale version . and give them the code for the colour version :)
19:32:13lostlogicboza: we do and have.
19:32:39Paul_The_NerdI think he's referring to the gameboy maybe?
19:33:18Paul_The_NerdIn which case there's a few things. One: Our emulator was developed independently from theirs, so not all (if any) display code is necessarily interchangeable.
19:33:31Paul_The_NerdTwo: Ours has to compile for various other targets than just the Ipod.
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19:34:02bozaoh ok , i wish it be more simple then that
19:34:09Paul_The_NerdIt'd be nice if it was.
19:34:14lostlogicalso we only have one dev with an ipod greyscale if I recall correctly
19:34:14 Quit didj ("leaving")
19:34:27bozaoh ok
19:34:41bozaare the codecs on Rockbox in IRam ?
19:34:44Paul_The_NerdThe gameboy emulator hasn't even been adapted to all colour targets yet (Nano) because the display code is apparently not fun.
19:35:13Paul_The_Nerdboza: Where appropriate the codecs use iram, yes. Sometimes it's been found that it's more efficient *not* to in certain places.
19:35:30Paul_The_NerdThere's still work to be done though on them for Ipod, both in the iram use and other places
19:36:27lostlogicboza: the important parts are
19:36:31pirokoi wish i had enough experience to be a dev :(
19:36:47 Join qwisp [0] (
19:37:39bozalostlogic : is the mp3 codec in IRam
19:38:03pirokowell, time for a movie. back later. good luck guys!
19:38:09bozabecause thats why IPL cant play back mp3 very well on 1g-3g ipods
19:39:33lostlogicboza: same as any other codec, what fits is
19:39:38lostlogicboza: each codec is loaded as needed
19:39:51lostlogicboza: don't think of us like ipl, we are not.
19:41:26lostlogicI think I might have found my really irritating playback bug!
19:42:15amiconnlostlogic: I'm not so sure that rockbox will pay mp3 realtime on 1g..3g
19:42:59lostlogicamiconn: yes, but we will use iram, just as we do in the newer generations...
19:43:11lostlogicso if that is 'why' ipl didn't play it real time, it does not apply.
19:44:32amiconnYes. Unlike on PP5020, I think IRAM will really pay off on PP5002
19:45:09amiconn(and unlike on coldfire, it will also make a difference for code, not only for data)
19:45:37amiconnSomeone with a 3g or earlier should join rockbox...
19:45:55 Quit kkurbjun ("Leaving")
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19:49:11lostlogicman, I hate being stupid.
19:49:27Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: We might soon. Apparently we got slashdotted today.
19:51:19cariniAh. slashdot. That explains why I'm having trouble accessing
19:51:48DBUGEnqueued KICK qwisp
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19:52:35bozado you guys have a page which shows at what bitrates you can get it to play on the ipod
19:54:07bozalike this
19:54:31goffa_it seems to be limited to any supported codec at any cbr or vbr :)
19:54:43goffa_well... mpc pre sv7 doesn't seem to work
19:54:46goffa_but they are working on that
19:55:39Paul_The_Nerdboza: Well the thing is, it partially depends on what settings you're using. For example, most people have no problem on most current targets (if not using Equalizer or Peakmeters) with ogg Q8, and MP3 CBR 320, and Lame Alt-preset-standard.
19:56:06 Join mtnbkr [0] (i=mtnbkr@tor/session/direct/x-33b09dda94b0fc8f)
19:56:44bozaoh ok
19:57:08Paul_The_Nerdboza: But the wiki IS a wiki, so you could always start one.
19:57:55 Quit qwisp ("Trillian (")
19:58:01bozayea , well it would be usefull if i had a 4g ipod :) sorry i am on 3G
19:59:04amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: Peakmeters are no prob on mini 2g. I think it's partially a color lcd driver performance problem
19:59:56 Join powr-toc [0] (
20:00:01Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Aaaah. Good to know.
20:00:36Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Though I swear I've seen at least one person have issues with it in the H120 forum (though I'll admit, he chimed in on someone else's post, so it's possible he had an Ipod of some sort, and was just responding elsewhere)
20:01:28 Join stephano [0] (
20:03:19CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
20:03:19*Paul_The_Nerd corrects the newsforge article.
20:05:59 Join Febs [0] (
20:06:24goffa_they need a lot of correction in the forum
20:06:35 Quit tipi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:06:49 Join zerotrace [0] (
20:07:03goffa_like .. using ogg makes you a pirate :)
20:07:22goffa_if thats the case... ARRRR Mateys!
20:08:15*goffa_ grabs his eye patch and sabre
20:09:23goffa_this guy does have a point
20:09:32goffa_Girls own iPods. You'll never get laid showning them your iRiver.
20:11:33 Quit Febs ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
20:11:51goffa_nice response "But what if I show them my iPenis ?"
20:11:58goffa_and counter "iPrison"
20:12:09mtnbkrand mee iBubba
20:12:41goffa_yeah.. i don't want to play with iBubba
20:13:00goffa_the bad thing about prison is that doesn't matter...
20:13:07*mtnbkr ONLY uses oggs
20:13:10goffa_because if iBubba wants to play.. you're going to play
20:13:22mtnbkrThank you RockBox devs...
20:13:43 Join warthawg [0] (
20:13:50goffa_i use mpc too
20:14:06goffa_and flac, wavpack, ape, others
20:14:24goffa_been converting ape to flac
20:17:26 Join Kohlrabi [0] (
20:17:49 Join fiftyfour123 [0] (
20:18:18 Quit fiftyfour123 (Client Quit)
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20:20:56 Join thouters_ [0] (
20:20:58 Join tipi [0] (
20:21:57Paul_The_NerdAnyone know why "Loading Original Firmware" would be followed by "Rockbox Error: -1"?
20:21:59 Join tvelocity [0] (
20:22:56warthawgsounds like the original firmware got whacked
20:23:10warthawgand rockbox couldn't load it?
20:25:25 Join phil [0] (n=phil@unaffiliated/phil)
20:25:28thouters_hi, I was wondering if people were working on raw video playback (like ipodlinux has)
20:25:51Ribsokay, for the iPod, do I need to copy the .ratbox folder across as well, or just the .bin file?
20:26:03Ribsermm... the .ipod file, I mean :>
20:27:56Paul_The_Nerdwarthawg: Maaaaybe. But I don't think Rockbox has any way of knowing if the original is there. If you merge with an IPL firmware, Rockbox then loads the IPL loader in that situation. :)
20:28:04Paul_The_Nerdthouters_: Not really, no.
20:28:22Paul_The_NerdRibs: There's not a .bin file... or a .ratbox folder... I'm confused.
20:28:27Paul_The_NerdRibs: Oh, .ipod
20:28:38Paul_The_NerdRibs: You need the rockbox.ipod and the .rockbox folder, yes.
20:29:17philwill there be HFS+ support for iPods in the future?
20:30:10 Join gursikh [0] (
20:30:22gursikhhas rockbox been /.'d to death?
20:30:45warthawgit seems to be drawing some slashdot attentino
20:30:52philgursikh: yeah, seems so
20:32:02Paul_The_Nerdphil: There's no real reason to add HFS+ support.
20:32:56peturbah... at least cvs is still up
20:33:03philPaul_The_Nerd: why not?
20:34:02philPaul_The_Nerd: if there would be support for the apple way of saving the mp3s, it would be quite important, i think
20:34:16philand it would make migrating easier for all the (mac) iPod owners
20:34:25RibsPaul_The_Nerd: cheers
20:34:29Ribsand firstly... wow
20:34:37RibsI'm like.. wow
20:34:47Ribsthis is super fast, and there are so many options here... this is amazing
20:35:02warthawgRibs, i am with you. it's most excellent
20:35:07Paul_The_Nerdphil: What support of the apple way? Rockbox is designed to be a replacement software.
20:35:08 Quit MofoGX (" Try HydraIRC -> <-")
20:35:15RibsJust trying to work out how to make it actually play music now :>
20:35:17lostlogicanyone using the latest playback.c revision had the screwed up buffer, playback eats itself problem?
20:35:40Paul_The_Nerdwarthawg: Is the newsforge comment you, out of curiosity?
20:35:57philPaul_The_Nerd: yeah .. but instead of having to format the harddrive and moving all the mp3s on it once again, it would be nice if i could still play my songs that are already on the iPod
20:36:16peturlostlogic: I'm building it atm, will test a bit
20:36:16 Quit Captain_Slender ("Max Power... He's the man, who's name you'd love to touch... But you musn't touch! His name sounds good in your ear... But whe")
20:36:23philcopying 20G (or even more) on the iPod is a mess .. especially over the network (in my case)
20:36:54Paul_The_Nerdphil: Ah, well then if it's worth it to you, I suggest you write the HFS+ driver.
20:38:19philokay .. i wanted to have a look at the sourcecode anyways. maybe i can contribute something to the project :)
20:38:36 Quit Arrogant ("Leaving")
20:38:52Paul_The_NerdBut seeing as the Ipod is the only target that uses HFS+, and a reformat is a once-ever operation, there's not a strong incentive for it as a whole
20:39:41 Join elinenbe [0] (
20:39:56philyeah .. but i think it's a major issue which keeps a lot of users away from trying out rockbox
20:40:14elinenbeThe channel grows every day!
20:40:30warthawghmmm, that was supposed to be my review, but that bastard tim lord stole it away from me :)
20:40:51warthawgok, ok, that's not really true. i am doing a second article on hacking rockbox
20:40:54Paul_The_Nerdwarthawg: He got a thing wrong here or there.
20:41:12warthawgPaul_The_Nerd, did you correct it? will you, please, if you didn't?
20:41:26Paul_The_Nerdwarthawg: I'm the post that says "Correction"
20:41:34warthawgthanks, Paul_The_Nerd :)
20:41:35Paul_The_NerdThat's the only one worth mentioning anyway
20:41:57Paul_The_NerdI know that "You have to copy your music again, and can't use itunes" actually is a negative point for some people.
20:42:10Paul_The_Nerdphil: Clearly then the features offered by Rockbox aren't really that valuable to them anyway.
20:42:31Kyomicopy your music again?
20:43:21Paul_The_NerdKyomi: If you use HFS+ you have to reformat to FAT32 first
20:43:49 Join Arrogant [0] (
20:44:00peturlostlogic: sound itself is superb! skipping and seeking very smooth and instant. But wps is sometimes/mostly out of sync when skipping around. Right now it's showing all the details of a song, but is actually playing the next one :(
20:44:11 Quit Arrogant (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:44:17warthawga few more diggs and it will be on the front page there, too
20:44:52Paul_The_Nerdwarthawg: Yeah, the site is so sluggish right now
20:44:54lostlogicpetur: that is unfriendly of it.
20:45:09Paul_The_NerdI'm honestly not necessarily looking forward to the influx in the forums.
20:45:11peturhope you don't hate me for it :P
20:45:14Kyomipetur: Yeah... I have that problem sometimes too
20:46:34Ribsdoes mp3 or ogg use less CPU power when playing?
20:46:40peturlostlogic: but honestly, the playback and the speed of skipping/seeking is amazing! good job man
20:47:24goffa_Ribs: mp3 uses less cpu... but... oggs are usually smaller so lower disk access
20:47:42RibsI'm thinking about my battery usage here :>
20:47:43Paul_The_NerdRibs: OGG uses less CPU on ipod right now]
20:47:45goffa_i get better battery life with ogg on my x5
20:47:58goffa_than with mp2
20:48:00goffa_er 3
20:48:07Paul_The_NerdThan with mp3
20:48:11goffa_and i can hold more
20:48:21goffa_and they sound better as a rule
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20:48:33Paul_The_Nerdgoffa_: It's a good idea to ask "what target" before answering questions
20:48:59elinenbewhere can I digg that article?
20:49:18goffa_true.. but i can't answer any questions on any target than an x5.. so i usually give my opinion and mention that i'm on an x5
20:49:26lostlogicpetur: any idea how the current track gets messed?
20:49:46Paul_The_Nerdgoffa_: Yes, but if you say "mp3 is more CPU efficient" like you did, you give the impression that it's that way on all targets.
20:50:02RibsHow do I get rockbox with the 'album art' patch?
20:50:14Paul_The_NerdRibs: You patch the source code, and compile yourself.
20:50:20 Part webguest92
20:50:28RibsAre there no 'releases' with it pre-patched?
20:50:37Paul_The_NerdNot from
20:50:44RibsI see
20:50:45Paul_The_NerdOnce it gets included it'll be in CVS and not a patch any more anyway
20:50:52*Ribs picks another theme :)
20:51:04peturlostlogic: it happens if I skip back: it plays the same song but shows the tag of the previous one...
20:51:17goffa_i use engineer2 on my x5... i hear it sucks on other players though
20:51:35KyomiRibs: I think the h300 experimental has it in there
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20:51:58 Quit thouters_ ("leaving")
20:52:29lostlogicpetur: hmm, any skip back?
20:52:42peturlostlogic: bad news, it just froze... (back light still going on/off but no response to keypresses)
20:52:42 Join Matixs [0] (
20:52:50lostlogicpetur: ok, now it hates you.
20:53:15 Quit tvelocity ("Ex-Chat")
20:53:25RibsKyomi: I'm okay waiting :)
20:53:40peturonly change with before is that I just plugged the charger in, but that can't be the cause
20:55:42 Join Arrogant [0] (
20:56:13peturlostlogic: the incorrect wps stuff happens when quickly skipping some tracks: I press << 3 times but the wps moves back only two tracks (but plays the correct track which is 3 tracks back
20:56:24Matixshello, can anybody help me?Iam under linux ubuntu, a try to compile crosscompiler, but when i try to build binutils, this error appeat in bash: configure: error: no acceptable cc found in $PATH
20:56:26peturnot always tho
20:56:28lostlogichmmm, ok
20:56:55peturgetting an irq from the wife, bbl ;)
21:02:23 Join mirak [0] (
21:05:14Avetomorrow I'm getting a ipod nano and stuff rb to it
21:05:17Avewish me luck..
21:06:05AveMatixs: you need to have a compiler, install one with: aptitude install build-essential
21:06:24AveMatixs: you need to have compiler to build a compiler, aint that funky..
21:07:05goffa_what came first.. the compiler or the compiler?
21:07:10 Quit boza (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:08:34Paul_The_NerdHand switches...
21:08:48elinenbelostlogic: quick question... what are the benefits of the new buffering that is causing so many issues?
21:08:53 Join bepe86 [0] (
21:09:27bepe86man, slashdot is raping the server...
21:09:44elinenbebepe86: that's okay −− for the most part, the more info out on rockbox, the better.
21:10:44bepe86yeah, I agree with you there, but I feel sorry for the machine... :S ;)
21:10:56elinenbemachines have no feelings!
21:11:01*goffa_ downloads the firmware that makes lostlogic smarter
21:11:14Galoisthe newsforge article mentioned in the slashdot story is not bad. Too bad the slashdot story DOESN'T LINK to it.
21:11:35Ribsslashdot is dumb like that
21:11:36*Galois reloads
21:11:43Galoisoh look they silently updated it with the link
21:11:47mirakhum there is doom on H300 ?
21:11:50Paul_The_Nerdelinenbe: Well, if the server's down, 90% of the internet's information on Rockbox is down too.
21:12:03Paul_The_Nerdmirak: Yes.
21:12:46mirakit says sorry you have no base wasd
21:13:00Paul_The_Nerdmirak: Read the PluginDoom wiki page.
21:13:11peturif you can ;)
21:13:20gursikhuse coral cache to get to it
21:13:26warthawgMatixs did you get past your problem with ubuntu
21:13:34 Quit Rondom (No route to host)
21:13:41miraklol sudoku works
21:14:15Ribsrockbox doesn't want to play anything now
21:14:26lostlogicelinenbe: there are several, performance is certainly one, but more importantly, the end result will be a playback system the can be modified and enhanced without worrying about breaking weird conditions, plus faster track skipping, and uhh stuff
21:14:27warthawgdoesnt link to it?
21:14:45peturmirak: put rockdoom.wad and your wads in /games/doom
21:15:09mirakhem the jpeg wiewer seems pretty fast in comparison of iriver's one
21:15:20mirakdoes it uses assembly in the fft ?
21:15:55lostlogicRibs: what happened to it? Are you running the latest CVS?
21:16:13Ribsno, just daily snapshot
21:16:24RibsI changed track, it was having none of it
21:16:34warthawgGalois: it links to the newsforge story. click on the phrase "the allure of the iPod is undeniable"
21:16:42mirakKyomi: ?
21:16:49gursikhwhat a horrible link BTW
21:16:55RibsI heard minor clicking in the headphones when it tried to play... the theme showed 'stop' then 'pause' being highlighted quickly, one after another
21:17:03Ribsthen it gave up and put me back to the file manager thing.
21:17:08 Part amiconn
21:17:17Ribsrebooting gave a loud pop in the headphones, and now all is well
21:17:19lostlogicRibs: I recommmend using the latest CVS. The daily had more playback bugs that I've fixed since then
21:17:19Paul_The_NerdRibs: Get the newest bleeding edge.
21:17:25mirakman the wiki is still a mess
21:17:44lostlogicunfortunately for me, this /. came at a bad time when I'm kinda in the last 1/4 of a major playback system rewrite.
21:17:47KyomiI just use experimental
21:17:48RibsThanks guys, but I'm cool with this for now, it's something I can put up with
21:18:04Paul_The_NerdRibs: You'd rather *not* use the bleeding edge, that probably fixes it?
21:18:06KyomiBecause the experimental had Doom first ;d
21:18:06RibsI want to avoid bleeding edge or cvs for now, this is just easier
21:18:15RibsPaul_The_Nerd: Correct.
21:18:19Paul_The_NerdRibs: Why avoid the bleeding edge, out of curiosity?
21:18:27Matixswarthawg: i already have a gcc compiler
21:18:27lostlogicRibs: dailies are no more stable than CVS, they are just pulled at a single ponit in time instead of on each CVS commit
21:18:35Paul_The_NerdRibs: All the Daily build is "The bleeding edge, taken at the same time each day"
21:18:41RibsPaul_The_Nerd: 'cos then I have to compile it, pull in deps it would need, and I have a amd64 which probably won't compile it
21:18:50Paul_The_NerdRibs: No, you don't have to compile the bleeding edge...
21:18:50lostlogicRibs: we build the bleeding edge builds, no compiling involved
21:18:58Ribsoh, I see.
21:19:05*Ribs was ignorant to that
21:19:09lostlogicthat's what the CVS build servers are for
21:19:09warthawgMatixs: do you have the correct one?
21:19:14lostlogicwhich you said you might volunteer one of :-P
21:19:23Ribslostlogic: indeed I might
21:19:29Ribsare you guys in need of another one?
21:19:47Ribsit's only a 800mhz box tho
21:19:51Matixswarthawg: i think that is gcc
21:19:54lostlogicRibs: if yours is pretty quick and on at least 2mbps pipe, it could definitely benefit us. One or two of them are pretty slow.
21:20:10lostlogicRibs: ah, then probably not helping, I think the slowest we hvae now is 1ghz
21:20:12warthawgMatixs: i may be wrong, but i think you want a specifc version of gcc
21:20:14Ribsit's on a 2mbit down / 256k up connection
21:20:23Ribssorry I couldn't be of any help :/
21:20:27lostlogicno worries
21:20:37RibsI think I'll donate instead
21:20:39lostlogicwe're down to 6 minutes to build all targets for now, and that's not bad at all
21:21:06Ribslostlogic: If you change your mind, I'll be happy to set it up. Feel free to /msg me in this case.
21:21:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:21:23gursikhIf there was a method of creating a build server in a shared environment I would totally be game for one or two servers
21:21:24RibsThis software has finally freed my iPod, and I'm very, very, gratefull for this.
21:21:36lostlogicgursikh: not really, they have to be servers you have root on
21:21:37RibsSo I wanna help if I can, even in a small way.
21:21:40warthawgMatixs: i use gcc-4.0.2 on ubuntu dapper
21:21:53gursikhlostlogic: I know :-(
21:22:06Matixswarthawg: now, iam downloading package build-essetial
21:22:28warthawgMatixs: cool, that may fix the problem
21:22:39Matixswarthawg: i have "old" breezy 5.10 version :)
21:22:53gursikhI'm actually thinking of donating some money and getting a VPS to set it up in, they are not really all that expinseve.. 75 bucks ot so a month.
21:23:35warthawgi don't donate money to projects very often, i am poor, but i have donated to both ipodlinux and rockbox
21:23:43 Quit stephano ("BBIAB")
21:23:52gursikhnor I
21:24:05 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
21:24:24gursikhbut I love RB so much on my h120.. it's really worth it to me at this point
21:24:39*Ribs just donated
21:24:45warthawgwtg, Ribs :)
21:24:52Ribsthat's the first thing I have ever donated to online (other than cararities)
21:25:03RibsWasn't much, but every little helps 'n all that
21:25:48lostlogicRibs: thanks :)
21:25:58lostlogicwhere are the darned swedes?
21:26:16KyomiSwedes are like ninjas
21:26:43 Join Rondom [0] (n=Rondom@
21:26:49warthawgthe norwegians say they are more like ... oh, never mind ;)
21:28:06 Quit Daishi ("Client exiting...")
21:28:55*goffa_ tries not to start the ole and lena jokes
21:29:42*goffa_ has a smidgeon of scandanavian blood... mostly english/irish
21:29:58goffa_probably 1/4 sweedwegian though :)
21:37:17lostlogicwhy do track changes during buffer fill cause problems, that is the real question here.
21:37:37GaloisI have an athlon xp 2200 here that's up 24/7 and I really wouldn't mind contributing it as a build server, but I don't have time to set it up
21:38:11Matixswarthawg: now, i can make makefile, but there is other error, when I type make in bash configure: error: expected an absolute directory name for −−prefix: −−program-tr ansform-name=s,^,arm-elf-,;
21:38:11Matixsmake: *** [configure-libiberty] Error 1
21:38:50Matixswhat iam doing wrong?
21:38:53 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:39:03warthawgMatixs: did you specify the −−prefix=/home/whereever when you ran config?
21:39:12 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (
21:41:09Matixswarthawg: i wrote: @ubuntu:~/build/binutils$ ../../work/binutils-2.16/configure −−target=arm-elf −−prefix ~/sh1/
21:42:01elinenbelostlogic: uhhhh stuff? ;-)
21:43:03warthawgMatixs: use /home/yourusername/sh1 for the prefix and see if that works
21:44:38Matixswarthawg: yes, this was this problem :) under cygwin this was more siplier :)
21:44:40lostlogicGalois: if I made a script to set it up automagically, would you run it? (on that machine it'd take about 1 hour) and what is the machine's connection? and what OS does it run?
21:44:58Galoislostlogic: I'd give you root for the purpose of setting it up if you're willing
21:45:23warthawgMatixs soon you will say, cygwin? pheeeew :)
21:45:50Galoisor any other rockbox dev, it doesn't have to be you :P
21:46:09Galoisthe connection is, .. uh, I dunno, but pretty fast
21:46:25lostlogicGalois: > 1mbps upstream?
21:46:28Galois10mbps at least
21:46:42lostlogiccan you respond to me in /query
21:48:24 Quit adiamas ("Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox]")
21:53:20 Join infamis [0] (
21:53:54Aveoh, rb story on slashdot
21:55:10midkaywowzers, there it is!
21:55:48Paul_The_NerdThat's why the site's so slow. :(
21:55:53Avecould be good? someone might get interested and suppply some patches or what
21:56:04Avelike, get the click to work
21:56:20 Quit phaedrus961 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:56:29midkayIf I was going to go through the hassle and risk of an Ipod firmware upgrade, I'd greatly prefer the freedom and flexibility of something like Ipod Linux [], rather than just a multi-codec jukebox platform.
21:57:04Ribsmidkay: It's not a risk
21:57:07midkay'the hassle of upgrading', hm. it's a one-time thing.. and clearly he uses his iPod for the "Extras" menu.
21:57:13midkayi didn't say it was, that's a comment from the article
21:57:16Ribsoh, sorry
21:57:25Ribsuse quote marks then :P
21:57:48Ribsidiots like me get easily confused.
21:57:49Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Many people don't realize it's *not* a risk on Ipod
21:58:11midkayRibs, haha.
21:58:14midkayPaul_The_Nerd, trueness..
21:58:34RibsI must confess, I thought it was a risk
21:58:37Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: The phrase "Firmware upgrade" implies risk in any situation. I'd say in reality for Ipod it's actually a Software Upgrade.
21:58:44Ribswhen I first saw that article on ./, I was like "no way"
21:59:01Galoisdidn't one person brick their nano while instaling rockbox
21:59:14midkayPaul_The_Nerd, yeah.. foolproofing it seems to be getting common.
21:59:17Aveyeah initially I thought it was a risk too, but once you read the documentation it becomes evident that its not
21:59:22 Join brendan_ [0] (i=brendan@
21:59:37brendan_Hi, how do i know when the tagcache is done generating?
21:59:42AveGalois: how did he do that?
21:59:54midkayGalois, it's not really possible unless they simply can't follow instructions (putting it in disk mode)..
22:00:02Paul_The_NerdGalois: One person had a hardware failure on his Nano that happened to occur at the same time as installing linux. I'm about 99.98% positive it was just bad luck
22:00:11GaloisAve: I don't know, but it took some skill as I recall
22:00:53Paul_The_NerdAll installing Linux or Rockbox does is replace data on the disk. No firmware flashing is done, so you can't *really* damage the Ipod unless something outside of the install process goes wrong at the same time.
22:01:01GaloisPaul_The_Nerd: oh, it was linux, not rockbox? *phew*
22:01:04*Galois runs
22:01:36scottderEvenin Rockboxers
22:02:07midkayPaul_The_Nerd, is the rockbox bootloader not flashed?
22:02:17midkayby the ipod itself..
22:02:41Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Nope.
22:02:45midkayhow's it work, then?
22:02:48Aveit seems that the worst that can happen is you nuke your hd-contents, but how many people have scsi-disks in their desktop computers?
22:03:03Aveand if you do, I bet you are savvy enough not to overwrite your drive..
22:03:04Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: The ipod has its own bootloader, that reads from a certain location on the HD. We just make sure our code is there instead of theirs. Then their bootloader loads ours.
22:03:25Avethen theres serial ata, but I digress
22:03:33*lostlogic abuses Galois' server.
22:03:48mikolaswhat was this stuff about tinysid port? is it going to be committed any time soon?
22:04:01Aveooh, sid player
22:04:06lostlogicmikolas: I think he's submitting it to the patch tracker, probably not in CVS until after 3.0
22:04:09lostlogic2 wks +
22:04:22midkayPaul_The_Nerd, how can the first-time rockbox bootloader installation's apple-logo-and-progress-bar "wait" procedure (for ~10 seconds) be explained, then?
22:04:48mikolasi actually tried to port older libsidplay, but porting from c++ to c was a pain in the butt so i eventually gave up :-)
22:04:56brendan_are there pans for a video player for ipos(color/photo)?
22:06:23Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Umm... that's an Apple software thing that occurs the first time you boot your Ipod I believe. Since you've rewritten your bootpartition, sometimes it thinks it's a new Ipod, I believe.
22:06:31 Quit MrStaticVoid ("leaving")
22:07:04midkayPaul_The_Nerd, it happens every time you upgrade your firmware.. (apple software, rockbox. and in all probability iPL).
22:07:19midkayi've done it about 50 times with the apple updater.
22:07:50Galoislostlogic: oh, and one more thing, ccache is already installed
22:08:40Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: I haven't noticed it on my Nano. But seriously, flash memory isn't written to. Try reformatting your whole Ipod disk, and you'll find that the rockbox bootloader really is gone, without any extra steps
22:08:48lostlogicGalois: ok, I'm using script to record my session so you can audit what I do, and so that I can make a script ofr other people to install build servers automagically
22:09:24midkayPaul_The_Nerd, "flash memory isn't written to" - you mean because it isn't or because it can't be?
22:09:37Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Now *that* question I can't answer. :)
22:09:49infamisdoes anyone use an IDE for rb-devel? I need some sort of quick navigation to locate where certain vars/defines are defined
22:09:50midkayPaul_The_Nerd, what did you mean by it? :)
22:10:02lostlogicinfamis: use ctags
22:10:18infamiscool, I'll check it out
22:10:37lostlogicI use vim + ctags to quickly jump to functions / variables
22:10:44Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: It isn't written to because there's no reason to write to it. The handy built in bootloader will do what we ask of it, and as far as I know the only thing actually ROM or Flash is the Emergency Disk Mode, which is why you can get to it no matter what: No matter how badly you bork your disk, it's in flash to bail you out.
22:11:05midkayPaul_The_Nerd, right, gotcha..
22:11:21midkayi'm now curious as to what that initializing thing is, though :)
22:11:27Paul_The_NerdI am too honestly
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22:11:30Paul_The_NerdI've never seen it.
22:11:35Paul_The_NerdWell, not "never" but only like, once or twice
22:11:59midkayprobably doesn't happen on nanos, or very quickly, due to the usage of flash memory..
22:12:29Paul_The_NerdIt's *probably* the Apple_OS portion of it writing your settings/etc to the boot partition.
22:12:38Paul_The_NerdAnd since the flash memory has no spinup, it'd be nearly instant.
22:12:51midkayit probably just runs a check, notices something's changed, and verifies that it will work right.. i think that's the point at which you get the exclamation mark error, maybe if the data fails the check..
22:13:04Paul_The_NerdI know there's a string in there that has to be there.
22:13:16Paul_The_NerdAnd this wonderful ASCII art Stop Sign
22:13:33midkay"no stop sign?! abort! exclamationPointError()!!!" :)
22:13:35Paul_The_NerdSeriously. I think it's in the Apple_OS.bin file, if you open it in a hex editor
22:13:50Paul_The_NerdI remember seeing it, but not exactly when/where
22:14:03midkayi don't doubt it :)
22:14:27Paul_The_NerdThe final anti-hacking measure: ASCII Art.
22:14:39midkayit's genius :)
22:15:23Paul_The_NerdBut, I must away. I've recently discovered that while beating my head against the PHP language's various annoying habits with arrays, I have discovered that I forgot to eat. I'll be back when that problem is solved.
22:15:25 Part Paul_The_Nerd
22:15:45Avethey really have an ascii stop sign there in the firmware bins?
22:16:34warthawgi apolgize, but, review just made first page of digg
22:16:46Avehmm hm h before the official apple dual booter was released I recall seeing some efi boot code or whatnot, and it might have had similar stuff in it
22:19:16*Galois hurriedly runs yum install SDL-devel
22:19:46 Join malakai [0] (
22:20:08 Join pfavr [0] (
22:21:24midkaywarthawg, where?
22:21:32lostlogicGalois: on your server?
22:21:43lostlogicGalois: cuz if that's on your server it makes my job easier :-P
22:21:52lostlogicdidn't you leave already?
22:21:57warthawgmidkay: where is the review or where on digg?
22:22:16midkaywhere on digg? i don't see it..
22:22:27Matixswarthawg: finally, i have compiled crosscopiler. Now, Can i download sources from cvs and compile rockbox the same way as in cygwin?
22:22:36 Join kkurbjun [0] (
22:22:40GaloisI might as well leave, my attention is on work right now
22:22:45Galoisbut, yes, on the build server
22:23:08 Join [g2-lap] [0] (
22:23:19 Quit Arrogant ("Leaving")
22:23:33warthawgMatixs: i dunno, cuz i never used cygwin
22:23:51warthawgmidkay: i swear i saw it on the front page just 5 minutes ago, now i dont'
22:24:01warthawgits in apple section
22:24:12midkayMatixs, yes, the cvs checkout is the same..
22:24:25midkayas is the configure/make stuff.
22:24:28midkaywarthawg, hm.
22:24:55goffa_damn... i'm out of shape... using body fat as an alternative fuel
22:25:19warthawgmust save... precious... body fat
22:25:28goffa_went on a 2 mi bike ride... half uphill and against the wind
22:25:48 Quit pfavr ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20060205]")
22:25:52goffa_legs feel like jello now
22:25:55[g2-lap]how well is the Nano supported ?
22:26:01lostlogicgoffa_: I bike 4.2 miles each direction for my commute... in Chicago. :)
22:26:11goffa_see .. i told you i'm out of shape
22:26:33goffa_weather is warmer now, so i'll bike more
22:26:48goffa_i only live 1 mi from work..
22:26:58goffa_its probably just as windy here as chicago most of the time
22:26:58kkurbjunlostlogic, did you write the profiler?
22:27:40lostlogickkurbjun: yeah
22:27:40goffa_its about 20 mph out there now... got up to 35 it looks like
22:27:41warthawg[g2-lap], i love rockbox on my nano
22:27:50goffa_the ride home was nice
22:27:56lostlogicgoffa_: nice!
22:27:56goffa_wind at the back
22:29:11kkurbjunlostlogic, I'm having some trouble figuring out how to use it, I added -finstrument-functions to the doom make file and then surrounded the main function call into doom with rb->profile_thread(); and rb->profstop();, but every time I run doom it just freezes
22:29:12Avewarthawg: does rb ui feel very sluggish on the nano?
22:29:21kkurbjunis there something I'm missing?
22:29:21Avecompared to say, apple ui
22:29:41warthawgAve: not to me, not at all
22:29:55lostlogickkurbjun: you selected profile from the configure script?
22:29:55Avegreat, I guess I'll see tomorrow if I can find any on stock..
22:29:55goffa_so... lostlogic how close is your next commit?
22:30:10kkurbjunlostlogic, yes
22:30:12goffa_about to drive home for the weekend... want to have the latest greatest on the player
22:30:14warthawgAve: songs are sometimes not right on the WPS i am playing
22:30:27goffa_if its a while off i'll just head home now
22:30:29lostlogickkurbjun: that sounds right...
22:30:42warthawgbut i can live with that.
22:31:10kkurbjunlostlogic, any idea why it would freeze?
22:31:14lostlogickkurbjun: we're sure it freezes and doesn't just go _really_ slow?
22:31:25lostlogickkurbjun: nothing comes to mind
22:31:34kkurbjunit's not even making it to the game menu
22:31:43kkurbjunI mean the startup menu
22:31:52goffa_going to not bother you people for like 3 whole days... well rest of today through sund afternoon/evening :
22:31:53Avewarthawg: what do you mean by "not right"
22:31:56lostlogicI dunno :(
22:32:30warthawgAve: for example, it will say next song is "Man of God", but "Man of God" is playing
22:32:33kkurbjunI'm going to see if I can get the midiplayer I have to profile
22:32:41infamislostlogic: chicago? we've been getting some good weather the past days huh?
22:32:52goffa_that used to happen to me warthawg ... but hasn't for a couple of days
22:33:07lostlogicinfamis: too warm, I was dripping when I got to work tody.
22:33:15warthawggoffa_ i have to admit, the build i am using is a few days old
22:33:32goffa_<- we've been in high 60's low 70's for about a week
22:33:47mirakhum is there a show cover or is the viewer independent from music ?
22:33:49goffa_ok... they fixed that warthawg
22:33:50Avewarthawg: and you're saying its wps problem? some work, others not?
22:34:00goffa_in recent builds
22:34:34infamislostlogic: haha...just wait 'til next week when we get hit with some 30degree weather
22:34:48goffa_ha ha ha
22:35:13goffa_we had an awesome winter... only 2 weeks of -20 or so in jan.. and 2 weeks of that in november
22:35:27goffa_the rest was like 20s-30s
22:35:32 Join Apostle^ [0] (
22:35:35mirakI have seen the video running on gmini archos player, that's really impressive. The image quality of the screen is better on the H300, but the smoothness of the 25 image second on the gmini is impressive
22:35:36goffa_but spring has finally come
22:35:43Apostle^have their been any major improvements for the ipod nano lately ?
22:36:06lostlogictwas a pansy winter here in Chicag too.
22:36:13kkurbjunlostlogic, does the profiler work in the sim?
22:36:35lostlogickkurbjun: never tried it, probably not
22:37:09lostlogickkurbjun: does doom use 1 or more threads?
22:37:18goffa_i think i'm going to brave the drive back home... while its still windy :)
22:37:22goffa_better gas mileage
22:37:43goffa_have a good weekend everyone
22:37:50kkurbjunlostlogic, another question, if I'm doing this right, I added $(PROFILE_OPTS) to /apps/plugins/Makefile in the CFLAGS section and now all the plugins error out.. soom uses the timer and the audio callback
22:38:22infamisgoffa_: peace
22:38:23kkurbjunsoom = doom
22:38:31lostlogickkurbjun: I honestly never tested profiling plugins, for codecs, I was just enabling it for one codec at a time
22:39:35lostlogickkurbjun: profiling uses the timer...
22:39:38lostlogicthat's probably what happens.
22:40:39kkurbjunoh, I'll have to see if I can avoid using the timer then to profile.. I can't figure out why the plugins would be erroring with -finstrument though..
22:41:19lostlogickkurbjun: you can get function call counts obviously without the timer... and maybe get some less accurate timing using the tick instead of a 1000hz tick.
22:42:09kkurbjunlostlogic, there's code in doom to not use the timer so I'll just use that and see if it works
22:45:39 Quit Ribs ("Leaving")
22:45:44 Quit infamis ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:47:54kkurbjunlostlogic, as a note, the plugins erroring was because I was being "SMRT"
22:48:20lostlogickkurbjun: well that's an improvement over me being "SMRT" which has been going on all day :)
22:49:55mirakIi have tried doom
22:49:55lostlogicbagh , sure a codec change during buffer works when I'm watching the log.
22:50:01mirakI am blownaway
22:50:07 Join infamis [0] (
22:50:35mirakthe screen can write enough frames per second
22:52:05 Quit _FireFly_ ("Leaving")
22:55:32[g2-lap]warthawg did you build the firmware or just install ?
22:57:19 Quit JazzBone (Remote closed the connection)
22:57:37Myth1does anyone know if there is a global define available telling me the endianess of the current build?
22:57:59lostlogicsomething like HAS_ROCKBOX_LITTLE_ENDIAN but I forget exaclty
22:58:57Myth1ROCKBOX_LITTLE_ENDIAN is used in some files. That seem it to be, thanks!
22:59:08Myth1I can optimize the sid player ;)
22:59:11kkurbjunlostlogic, I can't get it to profile the midiplayer either...
22:59:21kkurbjunMyth1, it'sROCKBOX_LITTLE_ENDIAN
22:59:49mirakthis motivate me to rework on some video
23:00:01mirakeven with very little compression
23:00:22mirakif we have 2G video files running at 25 fps it would be great
23:00:35mirakno ?
23:01:06 Nick Kyomi is now known as kyomi|off (
23:01:06kkurbjunmirak, it would definately be impressive if you got video running
23:01:27mirakkkurbjun: well I implemented mpeg2 and xvid already but that to slow
23:01:57lostlogickkurbjun: must be broken for plugins, but I could swear someone profiled a plugin successfully
23:02:59mirakkkurbjun: in fact the hardesst now is to find the appropriate video decoder
23:03:04mirakand video format in fact
23:03:19thoutershi, i'm running tools/configure, and all I get is a list with 12 items, none of which are arm (iPod nano)
23:03:38kkurbjunlostlogic, I dunno, I'm going to commit the initial setup for profiling in doom that I have though so it might be of some use later
23:03:54 Join filoktetes [0] (
23:04:17lostlogicI might have a chance to look at profiling plugins this weekend (MAYBE)
23:04:50kkurbjunlostlogic, PROFILE_OPTS is empty for standard compiles correct? no rush, I understand you're pretty busy with the playback engine right now
23:04:59lostlogickkurbjun: yeah
23:05:14kkurbjunok, so I'll leave that in the make file
23:05:22peturthouters: you should get a list of *21* items
23:05:26 Quit Farpenoodle (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:05:50thouterspetur: I downloaded a rockbox-2.5 tarball
23:05:55kkurbjunmirak, how fast was mpeg 2 decoding?
23:06:12infamisI tried ctags & gVim but really didn't work out the way I wanted. Is there an actual IDE that works with a cygwin install?
23:06:37peturthouters: get the latest from cvs
23:07:51thouterspetur: okay
23:08:22 Join midkay_ [0] (n=midkay@
23:08:32filoktetesHi, could someone tell me or point me to instructions on how to install rockbox on iaudio? Installing the bootloader is the thing I can't find good information about..
23:08:38mirakkkurbjun: 2,5 fps
23:08:49infamisfiloktetes: what are you using?
23:08:51mirakkkurbjun: without assembly and barely no iram
23:09:03mirakkkurbjun: and no sound ..
23:09:08infamiscvs build / daily build / manual build?
23:09:21 Quit midkay (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:09:23kkurbjunmirak, so that could be alot higher potentially, doom was only running at about 7 fps initially
23:09:33kkurbjunis the code in the tracker?
23:09:50filoktetesinfamis:do you mean os? Linux.
23:10:21infamisI mean with regards to rockbox; are you building it yourself or using a tar/zip off
23:10:24warthawg[g2-lap], sorry i am working on a virus on another machine, i've both built and installed prebuilt
23:10:41midkay_infamis, i think he wants bootloader install instructions, nothing to do with builds..
23:11:08 Join amiconn [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
23:11:22filoktetesI have the daily build. Do you recomend something else?
23:11:27infamis...or if he was trying to build it his-self
23:11:47midkay_cvs builds are good, they are rebuilt every change, so you'll get new features/fixes slightly earlier..
23:11:54peturfiloktetes: use the bleeding edge build
23:11:55warthawgdon't touch me or you might get the CAPZLOQUE TEKNIQUE
23:12:08filoktetesThanks :)
23:12:43infamisoops I confused 'daily build' with 'daily source'
23:12:47 Join Farpenoodle [0] (
23:13:12[g2-lap]warthawg cool about the building, not cool about the virus
23:13:22[g2-lap]is the source for the bootloader around ?
23:13:35infamisyea it's in bootloader/main.c
23:13:51warthawg[g2-lap], its that proof of concept thing thats been all the news lately
23:14:16[g2-lap]well I've kinda been off in my own embedded world
23:14:38warthawgif i knew much about mmap and how it changed in the 2.6.16 or thereabouts kernel, i might be able to tell why it doesnt work on the new kernels, but did before then
23:14:41[g2-lap]it seems like there's been trendous progress since last I checked
23:15:07[g2-lap]I'm running 2.6.16 on XScale
23:15:33crashdevening all
23:15:51infamisafternoon crashd
23:16:03warthawgis that like a distro for system 390?
23:16:03[g2-lap]armv5t is strongarm plus some extras iirc
23:16:31[g2-lap]the nanos are arm920t based right ? armv4t
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23:17:16mirakkkurbjun: yes, for xvid and mpeg2
23:17:36mirakkkurbjun: problem is they are probably too big
23:17:38malakaiDoes/Has anyone here use IDA Pro against code compiled for a ARM920T?
23:17:40Mikachulostlogic: i haven't gotten around to enabling frequency scaling yet
23:17:45warthawg[g2-lap], i don't know, i only know i needed the arm-elf cross compiler :)
23:17:48[g2-lap]XScale is the arch like arm, mk68
23:17:56warthawgaha, thanks
23:17:57malakaiI think I have an issue dissasembling the thumb instructions in IDA pro
23:18:26mirakis there charging from usb on H300 ?
23:18:29mirakwith rockbox
23:18:53linuxstb[g2-lap]: The ipods have arm7tdmi cores.
23:18:53lostlogicMikachu: hrm?
23:18:58[g2-lap]well I"ve got to run, but I'll have to check out the source and web site
23:19:02angelasheshow do i dl the cvs build for ipod on windows
23:19:04[g2-lap]linuxstb cool thx
23:19:12Mikachulostlogic: you asked
23:19:24lostlogicoh, I didn't remember asking.
23:19:28lostlogicMikachu: how's playback?
23:19:34Mikachu<lostlogic> Mikachu: you still having the Cpu stay boosted on stop?
23:19:34[g2-lap]linuxstb are the JTAG pins known or accessible ?
23:19:35crashdlinuxstb: did Myth1 and/or you make any more changes re: SID?
23:19:38lostlogicMikachu: ahhhhhhh
23:19:43 Join newanda [0] (
23:19:49Mikachuwell, i listened on the train earlier without fiddling and that worked fine
23:19:49linuxstbangelashes: - "CVS build" is also known as "Bleeding edge build"
23:20:05MoosMikachu: that was fixed
23:20:10Myth1crashd: I added some improvements, though I don't know how effective they are
23:20:11MikachuMoos: what was?
23:20:16 Join charkins [0] (n=casey@pdpc/supporter/active/charkins)
23:20:26angelashesyeah i know where to get it but i need away to dl it like linux has the cvs command?
23:20:31crashdMyth1: you got the .diff for it against clean source?
23:20:37MoosMikachu: cpu-boost thing when playback at stop
23:20:41lostlogicMikachu: which you never had any way :-P
23:20:47crashdit was working 'fairly' well on 5g earlier, it dropped a bit
23:20:50scottderI think I asked this before, but have forgotten the answer, is there a way in a WPS to display Replaygain?
23:20:53crashdbut for some songs it didnt drop at all
23:20:57Mikachui tried enabling it but i got crashes so i disabled it again :)
23:21:03 Quit tipi (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:21:04Myth1crashd: I send everything over to linuxstb and asked if he could put it in the official branch
23:21:09crashdthat's cool :>
23:21:11Mikachui've probably done something funny
23:21:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:21:32MoosMyth1: there will be one Rockbox question:
23:22:04MoosIs this new codec can be one exception during this feature freeze?
23:22:12Moosor wait for post 3.0
23:22:45crashdMyth1: you reckon you can get protracker running with similar performance on targets, then? ;)
23:22:48Moosincluding it in 3.0 can be good get my vote : )
23:23:01scottderwhat codec?
23:23:09Moossid one
23:23:29scottderwait people still listen to SIDs? :)
23:23:46crashdrob hubbard is the man : )
23:24:30infamisanyone use an IDE for rockbox source on cygwin?
23:26:07*petur misuses devstudio for rb ;)
23:26:40infamismatter fact the fact that it's cygwin doesn't matter...
23:26:53 Quit Rondom (No route to host)
23:27:17amiconnmirak: The jpeg viewer doesn't use assembler in the idct. It uses a very tiny assembler snippet for range-limiting to 0..255, otherwise it's just optimised C
23:27:39infamisI just need quick symbol location & file browsing
23:27:46infamis*source browsing
23:28:39amiconnBut it uses a technique that the iriver jpeg viewer probably doesn't use: For displaying the scaled-down versions, it uses a downscaling idct instead of first decoding full-res, then resizing. Saves both RAM and CPU time
23:29:33 Quit Bg3r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:29:55warthawgi saw something on the website, i think, about using eclipse
23:30:56thoutershi, I was wondering why the calendar plugin only seems to be built for archos recorder targets?
23:31:44infamiswarthawg: thanks...completely missed that (
23:31:56 Quit midkay_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:32:22 Quit [g2-lap] (Remote closed the connection)
23:33:33 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
23:33:48peturbah... java
23:34:01 Join r3dw0rm [0] (
23:34:38mirakamiconn: otherwise the downscaling is done by interpolation ?
23:34:49 Quit midkay (Client Quit)
23:36:40scottderjava...when you want it run really really slow
23:37:18infamisyea...I hate java but if it's the _only_ thing that'll work, so be it
23:37:32crashdjava is the pwn :)
23:38:49scottderand what about WMA support?
23:38:58*scottder runs
23:39:04Myth1does anyone know how fast the difference is between accessing normal memory and IRAM memory?
23:39:13 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
23:39:46 Quit malakai ("syntax: i'm rooled")
23:40:29 Quit newanda ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:40:42peturscottder: somebody was working on it
23:41:14amiconnMyth1: There's a biiig difference. How big it is depends on how wide the access is (byte/word/longword/line burst)
23:41:35 Quit phaedrus961 ("Leaving")
23:41:53mirakamiconn: does gcc uses the extra register of coldfire now ?
23:42:22amiconnOn ipod the difference doesn't matter that much, since it has both instruction & data cache.
23:42:35amiconnmirak: Extra register?
23:42:46mirakto add
23:43:16amiconnYou probably mean the EMAC unit. No, gcc has no idea about emac
23:43:53Myth1amiconn: Thanks for the info. I'm thinking about dynamically caching to the IRAM. Maybe that will improve speed
23:44:57brendan_when i view a JPEG, or use doom the screen seems to be limited to 16 colors(with really bad dithering), i'm using an ipod photo, is the expected?
23:45:52Paul_The_NerdThat is strange. For most people you get the full 16-bit color.
23:46:26brendan_yea, have notives a fiew other bugs as well
23:47:02brendan_Paul_The_Nerd, is there a setting or something to enable the extra colors?
23:47:23scottderWow rockbox made slashdot
23:47:26Paul_The_Nerdbrendan_: No, it's always in 16-bit color. Can you take a screendump?
23:47:35Paul_The_Nerdscottder: lots of bashing of it in the comments.
23:47:44crashdPaul_The_Nerd: that's because /. users are generally idiots
23:48:04brendan_Paul_The_Nerd, how do i take a screendump
23:48:22*amiconn curses coldfire
23:48:39Paul_The_Nerdbrendan_: Enable Screendump in the debug menu, under Info in the menu, and then to take a dump plug in the USB cable. When you're done taking screendumps, disable the setting to have USB work like normal again.
23:48:56Paul_The_Nerdcrashd: I've been waiting in fear all day for them to start showing up on our forums.
23:49:10 Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat")
23:49:58infamisPaul_The_Nerd: hold on
23:49:59amiconnThis i2c driver is teh inefficient.
23:49:59 Part infamis
23:50:21Paul_The_Nerdinfamis: Yes?
23:50:34 Join SlashDotIsTehPwn [0] (
23:51:05scottderPaul_The_Nerd: well it IS slashdot....comments there are a waste of good HD space
23:51:18SlashDotIsTehPwnwhat??? /. ownz
23:51:29angelashesrockbox is on again
23:51:48crashdc'est comedy
23:52:00scottderSlashdot, news from last week for geeks
23:52:15SlashDotIsTehPwnalright I'm done
23:52:20 Quit SlashDotIsTehPwn (Client Quit)
23:52:25 Join SlashDotIsTehPwn [0] (
23:52:28 Quit SlashDotIsTehPwn (Client Quit)
23:52:39 Join infamis [0] (
23:52:55infamisthose damn slashdotters
23:53:07Mikachui want my slashes undotted
23:53:16Myth1see you later guys
23:53:18 Quit Myth1 ("... und tschüß")
23:53:32pirokoso is playback unusable right now?
23:54:01infamiswhy do you figure?
23:54:02*amiconn wants unslashed dots ;)
23:54:08Paul_The_Nerdpiroko: Are you having problems with a bleeding edge build?
23:54:10lostlogicanyone know if there are codecs that are inclined to seek to the very end of a file as part of their codec startup?
23:54:30pirokoi haven't tried it yet. I just read this: Work around the bug with buffer wrapping. Serious performance penalty, and a lot of buffering is discarded to achieve this, but it doesn't crash while I find the real cause.
23:54:46brendan_Paul_The_Nerd, the screendump looks fine
23:54:57infamis"but it doesn't crash" would mean it would be usable ...?
23:55:54brendan_Paul_The_Nerd, i used on the of the daily snapshots, should i have used the stable release?
23:56:40pirokoi assume it would be to slow or something, from "serious performance penalty"
23:56:47pirokohaven't tried it yet
23:56:54pirokobut the playback bug is fixed for now?
23:57:22infamiswell, I just tried a sim build of the x5 with the latest cvs...playback has improved
23:57:31infamisused to dropout every 3 or so seconds
23:58:13infamisplayback improves everyday; thumbs up to brandon
23:58:30crashdif you lived in the uk, id buy you a pint
23:58:38crashdgood job for me, half the people i say that too dont live in the uk :)
23:59:02infamispaypal would suffice :)

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