#rockbox 2006-05-07

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#rockbox log for 2006-05-07

00:02:29	scottder	Hey Paul_The_Nerd
00:04:51	Paul_The_Nerd	Hola
00:05:14		Quit Spacksaw ("I'm off, see ya later!")
00:05:42		Quit qwx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:05:59	ravon	Someone make a dock program container for Windows :/
00:07:49		Join TCK [0] (i=TCK@81-179-76-84.dsl.pipex.com)
00:08:22		Quit Rincewind_12 ("bye")
00:09:15		Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net)
00:09:29		Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:12:46	Mikachu	scottder: hm it looks like it's faster too
00:12:55	Mikachu	Done encoding file "standard.ogg"
00:12:57	Mikachu	Rate: 8.9929
00:12:57	Mikachu	Average bitrate: 113.1 kb/s
00:13:00	Mikachu	Done encoding file "beta.ogg"
00:13:03	Mikachu	Rate: 11.0860
00:13:03	Mikachu	Average bitrate: 112.0 kb/s
00:13:24	scottder	Which one?
00:13:36	Mikachu	your recommended encoder vs the standard one
00:13:58	scottder	Ah yes....I get about 20x when transcoding....does the job quite nicely
00:14:01	Mikachu	ps, renaming shared libs after they're compiled is not as easy as you think
00:14:14	Mikachu	and i compiled it with -O2 and no -ffast-math
00:14:22	Mikachu	i think it's weird to have -ffast-math in an encoder btw
00:14:35	scottder	Never copile it on a linux box myself...
00:14:48	Mikachu	i want to have it alongside so i made a libvorbisbetaenc.so and oggbetaenc binary
00:15:03	Mikachu	it was exciting but it worked in the end
00:15:10	scottder	Ahhh
00:15:16	scottder	be able to use both...I see
00:15:29	Mikachu	i could have just installed it in another dir of course, but that's not fun
00:15:43	scottder	and what good is it if it's not fun
00:15:43	scottder	:)
00:15:54	Mikachu	i also applide it to libvorbis 1.1.2 instead of 1.1.1
00:16:03		Quit Rincewind (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:16:03	Mikachu	so we'll see how that goes
00:16:15	Mikachu	one of the changes was already in that
00:16:28	scottder	I am just amazed how much I am liking things at Q3
00:16:35	scottder	certainly good enough for portable listening
00:16:47	scottder	and get more bang for buck out of my Nano :)
00:16:57	Mikachu	i transcode most things to ogg q3 for my nano
00:17:35	Mikachu	if it's 192 mp3 or higher :)
00:18:31		Part Pi ("Kopete 0.10.4 : http://kopete.kde.org")
00:19:40	Mikachu	well, this doesn't sound notably worse than the standard encoder
00:19:56	Mikachu	but then, i don't hear any difference between flac, mp3 128kbps and ogg q3
00:20:07	Mikachu	on this type of music
00:20:41	scottder	I get wonderful bitrates on some of the mono classical albums ;)
00:20:46	bluey^awy	get descent earphones, those white Apple Earpud sucks :)
00:21:39	scottder	I have Koss KSc-35's (best $10 I ever spent on headphones) and Shure E3cs I use with my Nano
00:21:43	Mikachu	i usually listen while biking
00:21:50	Mikachu	so it doesn't matter a lot
00:21:54	thegeek	http://www.magnuminmotion.com/essay%5Fchernobyl/
00:22:20	scottder	the koss are great...open enough to hear whats going on around you
00:22:53	Mikachu	hm apparently the oggencoder does high cutoff at 17kHz
00:23:38	thegeek	how well does the "clamp onto ear"-system work?
00:23:40	dpassen1	scottder: I love my KSC-35s
00:23:57	thegeek	I'm considering getting the ksc-75 but I'm not convinced it will be comfortable/secure
00:24:06	Mikachu	−−advanced-encode-option lowpass_frequency=6 sounds funny
00:24:10	Mikachu	instant vinyl
00:24:56	Paul_The_Nerd	I can't stand any clamp-to-ear style earphones. They always drive me nuts
00:24:57	bluey^awy	are these ksc-35 similar to the koss porta pro?
00:25:04	dpassen1	I believe same driver.
00:25:10	Mikachu	my right ear doesn't like in-ear buds
00:25:13	scottder	what dpassen1 said
00:25:20	Mikachu	they always fall out
00:25:28	scottder	you freak! :0
00:25:59	Mikachu	nothing wrong with my left ear though
00:26:14	thegeek	I have the shure e3's and they work very well, but it's a bit tiresome having to plug them in
00:26:24	thegeek	I think the ksc-series would be great for biking
00:26:40	thegeek	It's a bit scary biking in the city without any sound too;)
00:26:47	scottder	Rat Shacke had the KSC-75's on sale
00:26:53	Mikachu	i can lower the volume by 10dB if i press the apple phones a bit more into my ear
00:27:04	thegeek	n
00:27:12	thegeek	the shure e3's isolate too much for biking
00:27:18	thegeek	I can't hear cars
00:27:19	scottder	Oh yeah
00:27:27	scottder	way too isolating...
00:27:34	thegeek	only for biking;)
00:27:38	thegeek	it's great otherwise
00:27:50	scottder	I use KSC35's at work...
00:28:28	Mikachu	scottder: how beta is this encoder? should i expect it to produce good streams always or be sort of careful?
00:29:58	scottder	I haven't had an issue with it yet....
00:30:01	Mikachu	okay
00:30:06	scottder	his "betas" are pretty solid
00:32:04	scottder	This is gonna drive m nuts all night...typo in my wps...added an extra charcter....
00:32:11	scottder	and I am here till 2am
00:32:12	scottder	:)
00:32:52	Mikachu	do you have the text_editor installed?
00:33:02	Mikachu	although i heard it had some problems editing wps files for some reason
00:33:29	scottder	it works fine...there is just an "i" tacked on the begining of track titles :)
00:33:43	Mikachu	heh
00:33:52	Mikachu	if you give it a shot, make a copy of the wps first
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00:36:33		Quit ender` (" Very few profundities can be expressed in less than 80 characters.")
00:37:01		Part RedBreva
00:37:16		Join Romanos [0] (n=Romanos_@host-84-9-153-143.bulldogdsl.com)
00:37:45	*	scottder grooves to new Tool
00:37:49	scottder	it's been TOOO long
00:40:02	Romanos	ok, this is a nasty one.. I got different battery stamina indications in all 3 different firmwares. Apple, Rockbox and ipl.. Which one can i trust? Retail?
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00:41:26	scottder	I've found them all to be very....general....
00:41:43	scottder	the apple one will be down one monute back up the next...
00:42:01	Mikachu	the indicator will depend on load
00:42:08	shrizza	Hello. diskdump is giving me a "Bad boot sector signature" message.
00:42:33	shrizza	I'm trying to install onto a 4G iPod (grayscale).
00:42:36		Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
00:42:37	shrizza	From OS X.
00:42:59	Romanos	also, why all my settings are reseting to default when i'm entering retail?
00:43:03	Paul_The_Nerd	Romanos: The truth is, you can't trust any of them.
00:43:09	Romanos	lol
00:43:17	Paul_The_Nerd	It's true.
00:43:17	Romanos	even the comppany's one?
00:43:20	Paul_The_Nerd	Yep
00:43:22	scottder	If the music still plays, you still have battery :)
00:43:32	Mikachu	Romanos: settings saving is sort of random on nanos, go to manage setings and write a .cfg and it should save the config block at the same time
00:43:46	Paul_The_Nerd	Mikachu: I think he's talking about Retail settings.
00:43:50	Romanos	yep
00:43:53	Mikachu	ah
00:44:07	Romanos	i've already done the trick for rock ;)
00:44:09	Mikachu	if you reset retail with menu+select it probably won't save
00:44:11	Paul_The_Nerd	And that I don't know. Mine doesn't reset (in Retail or in Rockbox)
00:44:20	Mikachu	you probably have to wait 24 hours or something :)
00:44:28	Paul_The_Nerd	I think Retail has to run for a certain period of time before the settings are stored.
00:44:40	Romanos	right...
00:44:47	Mikachu	it's possible it'll dump the settings if you write a { to /dev/sda1 and unplug the usb cable
00:44:48	Paul_The_Nerd	Though I think plugging in USB while in Retail might force it. Especially if you use iTunes to change a setting.
00:44:57	dwihno	sda2
00:44:57	Mikachu	or just plugging the cable in
00:45:00	Mikachu	sda1
00:45:06	Mikachu	writing a { to sda2 would be very bad
00:45:16	dwihno	nay
00:45:23	dwihno	it would be so swell :)
00:45:36	Mikachu	as long as its not your ipod i guses it doesn't matter
00:45:48		Quit qwm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:45:51	Romanos	how's the job going on , at the usb disk mode on nano?
00:46:10	Romanos	meaning, time lag between rockbox and retail
00:46:28	dwihno	/dev/sda2 then...
00:46:30	Romanos	any progress?
00:46:36	Paul_The_Nerd	Umm... Rockbox doesn't have ANY USB mode of its own. They're all Retail in some manner.
00:46:45	Paul_The_Nerd	Also, _Feature Freeze_
00:46:48	Paul_The_Nerd	No iPod-specific work.
00:47:21	Romanos	damn
00:47:40	*	Mikachu wonders if all bugs will be resolved in 8 days
00:48:24	Paul_The_Nerd	There's probably not going to be a rockbox-native USB mode for a long while, I imagine.
00:48:44	Mikachu	usb host support would be more fun
00:49:02	dwihno	well, of course
00:49:15	dwihno	but not too soon, though
00:49:21	Mikachu	joypad controlling
00:49:26	bluey^awy	pls...
00:49:34	Mikachu	(that was a joke probably)
00:49:37		Quit Davide-NYC ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.3/2006042618]")
00:50:25	bluey^awy	i already see those posts "I want to stick a 2000dpi mouse on rockbox. how does this work?"
00:50:43	Romanos	???
00:50:47	Mikachu	it would be cool if it worked, but maybe not #1 priority
00:50:53	scottder	Rockbox 11.5 Now with mind control support
00:50:54	scottder	:)
00:50:57	Romanos	:P
00:51:02	bluey^awy	i don't see the benefits of native USB support
00:51:20	Mikachu	over nothing?
00:51:20	Romanos	well.. will retail useless
00:51:38	Romanos	*will make
00:52:15	bluey^awy	well anyway i'm offline
00:52:18	bluey^awy	goodnight
00:52:23	Paul_The_Nerd	bluey^awy: If Rockbox didn't have to reboot into the hardware disk mode, it could improve performance in a few ways.
00:52:24	Romanos	bye
00:52:47	Romanos	in what way paul?
00:53:36	Romanos	i mean.. retail os is the base right now, and rockbox is running in top of it?
00:53:39	Romanos	right?
00:54:06	Paul_The_Nerd	Romanos: Well, for one, the Nano Disk Mode problem vanishes. For another, one can transfer files, then return to Rockbox to charge and play music without having to unplug the cable or touch the iPod.
00:54:24	Paul_The_Nerd	I have no idea what you mean by "base" or "running on top of"
00:54:55	Paul_The_Nerd	Rockbox is completely independent of the Retail OS. You can actually remove it without causing Rockbox any problems.
00:55:06		Join YouCeyE [0] (n=YouCeyE@unaffiliated/youceye)
00:55:18	Romanos	like apple is the core and rockbox is on the top, it can't really act as apple os
00:55:33	Paul_The_Nerd	No.
00:55:35	Paul_The_Nerd	What gave you that idea?
00:55:51	Romanos	dunno.. i'm asking..
00:56:07	Paul_The_Nerd	Well, you said you thought it was that way. I'm curious what led you to that.
00:57:02	Romanos	i thought that apple os is in a way "embedded" inside ipod and all other firmwares can just run on the top of it, deacreasing performance
00:57:03	Paul_The_Nerd	Right now there's a hardware bootloader. It loads whatever is in the firmware partition. Right now that's our bootloader, which then either goes on to load Rockbox, Apple, or Linux. Or whatever other program you've put there. It doesn't have to be any of those. I've had my iPod just have Rockbox in the boot partition. No Apple Retail OS in it at all.
00:57:42	Paul_The_Nerd	Romanos: See, that's a strange assumption. Again, I ask where you got that idea from.
00:57:51	Romanos	from linux..
00:57:53	Romanos	:P
00:57:55		Quit goa ("Client suicide")
00:58:10	Paul_The_Nerd	From linux? What does that have to do with it?
00:58:13	Romanos	nonsense logic.. forget about it
00:58:21	Paul_The_Nerd	iPodLinux doesn't run on top of the Apple OS either.
00:59:09	Romanos	i'm just trying to understand if the native firmware, was spesifically designed for ipod
00:59:16	Paul_The_Nerd	It is.
00:59:37	Romanos	or just to bring jobs some easy money with itunes
00:59:51	Paul_The_Nerd	I don't really see the relationship between those two statement.
01:00
01:00:18		Quit Kohlrabi ("Fast alle Menschen sind Regenwürmer")
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01:00:46	Romanos	i'm trying to figure out, why apple didn't support flac, ogg gapless etc..
01:00:57	bluey^awy	because they dont want
01:01:27	bluey^awy	they do not care to support a Codec which they can't control
01:01:33	Paul_The_Nerd	Romanos: That's about it. They simply chose not to.
01:02:13	bluey^awy	they support only MP3 because it is the standard and AAC because they make money with it
01:02:20	bluey^awy	simple as that
01:02:48	Romanos	ok :)
01:03:23	bluey^awy	i'm sure
01:03:33	bluey^awy	Apple would be the first one
01:04:09	bluey^awy	who would switch to Vorbis if it would be released under BSD and add there crappy DRM stuff
01:04:22	bluey^awy	as they do under OSX
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01:04:39	Romanos	yeah but i mean support gapless? What's the wrong even with that?
01:04:40	spupek	hi!
01:04:50	spupek	i have problem!!can i ask?
01:05:04	Romanos	depends
01:05:09	Paul_The_Nerd	Yes, you can ask
01:05:15	bluey^awy	mhh gapless is only supported by lame not here own Encoder in itunes
01:05:22	Romanos	it can be all kinds of problems :P
01:05:23	bluey^awy	by there -here
01:05:30	spupek	i own a h300, and i use rockbox
01:05:48	Paul_The_Nerd	Romanos: Yeah, Gapless support isn't as simply as it seems, and there's not a lot of market pressure for them to waste the time on it.
01:06:17	shrizza	Man. You gotta be kidding me; the installation is only for FAT32 formatted iPods?
01:06:45		Quit muesli- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:06:50	Paul_The_Nerd	shrizza: That's what it says.
01:07:04	Galois	bluey^awy: libvorbis is, actually, licensed under BSD
01:07:49	bluey^awy	hm ok thought lgpl
01:08:37	Paul_The_Nerd	shrizza: FAT32 is a much more widely supported file system than HFS+... is it really a problem?
01:09:03	shrizza	Both should be supported because reformatting is a pain in the ass.
01:09:03	spupek	some day it start make some strange noise, like if it cant read something. do it for some seconds and continue...then i try windows defragmenter, and it gave an error, that cant read a folder. i try norton symantec diskdoctor, but that was just can read something too.but i can read everything, with rockbox, or connected to pc. i dont know why cant read. and now i started the roiginal iriver fimrware, but it finds no music, says 0000folder an
01:09:03	spupek	0000 music files:(. what is wrong? maybe file system?or worse? what to odo?format?
01:09:33	Paul_The_Nerd	shrizza: So if Reformatting is more a pain in the ass than writing an HFS+ driver for Rockbox, go write the driver.
01:09:33	Romanos	why can't we use ntfs?
01:09:59	Paul_The_Nerd	Romanos: Because NTFS is even less widely supported, no MP3 players come natively in it anyway, and there aren't major benefits for a DAP using it either.
01:10:16	Paul_The_Nerd	Oh, right, and _proprietary_
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01:10:28	Romanos	can i install windows on a dap? loooooool
01:10:46	spupek	now, my problem is upper, sorry for my english...
01:10:49	PaulJam	spupek: you run chkdsk on it with the option ti check for bad sectors
01:11:15		Quit bluey^awy ("Leaving")
01:11:19	Romanos	windows dos or even 3.1
01:11:22	spupek	oo, i wanna do, but dont know how, i try it now.thanx
01:11:59	spupek	how to do that under linux?
01:12:01	spupek	:)
01:12:03	scottder	Romanos: I wan C=64 on my dap
01:12:04	scottder	:)
01:12:48	PaulJam	i think under linux the comand is fsck
01:13:00	spupek	ok try
01:13:25	PaulJam	with the option -c
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01:13:42	scottder	Wait no...
01:13:43	scottder	OS/2
01:13:44	scottder	:)
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01:15:54	spupek	oo, fsck cant find fsck.vfat..cant check..
01:15:55	spupek	sh
01:16:11	Mikachu	spupek: install dosfstools
01:16:42		Quit shrizza ()
01:17:13	spupek	ok, doing, thx
01:19:06	spupek	"here are differences between boot sector and its backup." <-what's that mean?
01:19:17	spupek	) Copy original to backup
01:19:17	spupek	2) Copy backup to original
01:19:17	spupek	3) No action
01:19:19	spupek	?
01:19:43	Mikachu	it means something is wrong, and either 1 or 2 might fix it
01:19:52	spupek	backup?i guess
01:21:11	spupek	copy original to backup, just leave everything like was, except that backup will change..hmmmm
01:21:24	Mikachu	it is not possible to know which is the correct one
01:21:51	spupek	yes.:(
01:23:59	spupek	Differences: (offset:original/backup)
01:23:59	spupek	65:03/00
01:24:11	spupek	^^^or is that mean, that there is no backup?
01:25:27	Mikachu	i don't know, i've never had this exact problem
01:29:25	spupek	i left bootsector as it was, took no action, but repaired filesystem...now original firmware see the files:)thanx. may i search for bad sectors?
01:29:42	Mikachu	that's probably not needed
01:30:47		Quit Romanos ()
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01:34:50	spupek	hm, after disconnected and connected again same filesystem prob, according to dosfsck output.:\|
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01:57:11	spupek	this "free cluster summary" always go back to wrong...
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02:15:45	spupek	or can it be a starting hardwar problem?:(, or just try to format? i am doing a bad sector check, and at some files(i havent try yet that at same files) reading is hard(?!), gives a sound repetedly liek move head in and out for some time, and continue. and report no problem
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02:51:56		Quit Moos ("Glory to Rockbox !!!")
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03:00
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03:04:49	KimHC	:-)
03:06:04	Pladask	8-]
03:12:40	KimHC	^^
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03:15:52	KimHC	i'm bored to death
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03:46:20	nudelyn	http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/laptops/thermal-greasy-apple-sics-lawyers-on-something-awful-171394.php <−− Apple in "Bunch of Assholes" SHOCKER!
03:48:23	trink	steve jobs has a really small dick
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03:58:08	scottder	Nah....border lawyers always come up with this shit
03:58:17	scottder	bullshit = billable hours
03:58:17	scottder	:)
03:59:44	XavierGr	it is apple what would you expect?
04:00
04:00:54	scottder	it's any big company really
04:01:09	XavierGr	exactly
04:01:29	scottder	as long as Steve Jobs doesn;t start complaining about being rich like Bill Gates
04:02:06	scottder	just Apple has gotten good at shooting themselves in the foot is all
04:07:31		Quit qwm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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04:09:01	jnc	i think people generally lose sight of the function of Apple Inc as an american business
04:09:35	jnc	(A) sell stuff (B) take in more money than is spent
04:09:58	jnc	and the ignored point (C)
04:10:04	jnc	(C) cover your ass
04:10:14	Mikachu	my guess involved the word "ass"
04:10:24	jnc	heh
04:11:33	jnc	whoa
04:11:43	jnc	i thought of a fun tool idea
04:11:46	jnc	BLUEBOX
04:12:13	jnc	how retro would that be? DTMF dialer tool
04:12:32	jnc	or if you have a microphone capability, a tool that listens for tones and tells you the DTMF number
04:12:40	jnc	like a decoder
04:12:40	Mikachu	should be pretty simple i think, there's already a square wave generator in rockbox
04:12:53	Mikachu	maybe dtmf aren't square waves though
04:13:01	Mikachu	should be pretty simple in either case
04:13:03	jnc	they're a matrix of multiple tones
04:13:14	Mikachu	two for each button?
04:13:18	jnc	yep
04:13:25	jnc	there's service tones that use one or three
04:13:33	jnc	and i'm not sure about non-US tones
04:13:48	Mikachu	i'm hoping it's a standard
04:14:04	jnc	you can find it documented in ma bell manuals from the 70's
04:14:10	Mikachu	i haven't used a normal phone in ages though
04:14:20	jnc	cell phone?
04:14:22	Mikachu	cell phones don't usually make those sounds
04:14:34	jnc	ah
04:14:56	jnc	well having contact information and going up to a POTS phone, hold your pda up to it, it dials your friend's number
04:15:10	Mikachu	would be pretty silly to encode the digital number as an analog signal, then convert that to gsm and send it
04:15:13	jnc	that was a real nice feature when phones accepted DTMF tones
04:15:32	jnc	ah, yes
04:15:41	jnc	but to accept dtmf tones, that is a useful feature
04:16:05	Mikachu	swedish phone numbers are usually 6 digits, 9 with area code
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04:16:30	scottder	pfft who cares about swedish phone #'s ? :)
04:16:34	Mikachu	swedes
04:16:39	Mikachu	such as myself
04:16:55	scottder	j/k :)
04:17:27	jnc	wikipedia has a brief explanation of the tones for dtmf, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTMF
04:17:48	Mikachu	you can almost play twinkle� little star on a dial pad i think
04:18:37	jnc	sure
04:18:52	Mikachu	it's sort of a funny scale though :)
04:19:14	jnc	you can tune a guitar or other instrument that has an open A note
04:19:19	jnc	the dialtone is A440
04:20:01	Mikachu	yeah i know
04:22:59	jnc	the bit about 'A' 'B' 'C' and 'D' tones are interesting
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05:27:01	Presence	haha, a bluebox plugin for rockbox!
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05:50:20	scottder	plugins/capt_crunch
05:50:20	scottder	:)
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06:21:27	RoC_MM	Anybody using recent 4G builds?
06:21:29	RoC_MM	(grey)
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06:55:08	RoC_MM	Guess not.
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07:02:14	webguest51	does anyone know where i might find hacked/opensource firmware that would allow my Creative Zen Touch to play FLAC/Ogg Vorbis?
07:02:31	scorche	www.google.com?
07:02:34	midkay	it'd be all over the place if it existed, i'd imagine..
07:02:49	webguest51	yeah thats what i figured
07:03:10	webguest51	i looked on google, but its turning out to be not so easy to find
07:03:23	scorche	are you sure it exists?
07:03:32	webguest51	zen touch is not so new, so im actually surprised no ones hacked it yet
07:03:36	webguest51	no im not sure at all
07:03:37	midkay	webguest51, because it doesn't exist. you're not going to find it if it's not on the first page of results, and that'd be if you hadn't heard of it already, which would be impossible.
07:04:01	midkay	it's not like somewhere on page 400 you'll stumble across a single page containing hacked firmware that merely plays flac/ogg.
07:04:15	webguest51	lol yeah i know
07:04:47	webguest51	well i figured it was worth an ask... thank you
07:05:24	midkay	rockbox might end up on it at some point..
07:05:51	scorche	but why the zen, when there are other, better players?
07:05:54	midkay	don't get your hopes up for "soon" or even "eventually".. it's a possibility, but i don't think anything is being worked on right now.
07:06:09	midkay	scorche, why not the zen? it's newer than the archoses..
07:06:16	midkay	probably around as old as the h100s.
07:06:39	webguest51	yeah i would have gotten something from cowon
07:06:58	webguest51	but i got this for real cheap through my school bookstore
07:07:19	webguest51	i needed a quick fix when my old karma died
07:08:14	webguest51	its i nice player, i just dont like supporting WMA so much now that so much DRM stuff is being pushed on it
07:08:45	webguest51	(and flac sounds better) anyway, thanks a lot, peace
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08:32:28	dongs	dongs
08:33:16	dwihno	dwihno \o/
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09:22:25	stevenm	woops. lousy button code
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09:29:24	stevenm	this is why you code first, drink later =)
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09:41:56	dongs	only linux "coders" drink.
09:41:56	dongs	fact.
09:42:18	dongs	because windows programmers are busy getting paid for their work
09:43:12	ze	i'd have to disagree
09:43:32	ze	i'd say there's probably a decent percentage of coders in both realms who drink while coding
09:43:47	ze	its just windows programmers to numb the pain and shame of what they do
09:43:58	ze	and linux programmers to have an extra good time
09:47:33	dongs	um, right.
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09:51:34	Ribs	hehe
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09:59:10	Paul_The_Nerd	dongs: Why is it you feel the need to sit in here and insult linux and linux users frequently?
09:59:57	ashridah	because it's a troll
10:00
10:00:25	opus	i have a problem with recording through H300,while playing the stuff i've recorded,i hear a "skip" for some sec.(like ffw'ing a cassette )anyone got an idea ?
10:00:38	ashridah	i'm surprised no one has banned him yet
10:00:56	opus	this shit happens on iriver firmware and rockbox as well
10:01:38	ashridah	on both? weird.
10:01:58	Paul_The_Nerd	opus: If it happens on both, maybe your HD is having issues, and it's taking longer to write to it than it should. How often do the skips happen?
10:02:11	dongs	opus: does it skip if you play the recorded file on a PC?
10:02:16	opus	every 2-2.5 mintues
10:02:19	opus	yes it does
10:02:27	ashridah	i mean, i wouldn't be surprised if there's an issue with rockbox's recording buffering code, but having the same issue on the iriver firmware sounds more like a hardware issue
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10:03:16	opus	maybe i have to turn AGC off?or it doesn't matter?
10:03:28	dongs	i thought agc is analog
10:03:33	Paul_The_Nerd	I thought you said that you have the same recording problems in iRiver.
10:03:34	dongs	autoamtic adjustment of recording level
10:03:39	dongs	sholdnt ahve any effecto n anyhithing
10:03:56	opus	yes,but there is a option for it on iriver firmware as well
10:04:22	Paul_The_Nerd	opus: I think it's most likely a hardware problem.
10:04:49		Quit linuxstb__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:04:51	opus	what might be injured?
10:04:59	Paul_The_Nerd	Dunno.
10:05:12	Paul_The_Nerd	But if it happens in the retail firmware and Rockbox, it's unlikely to be a software problem.
10:06:24	opus	by the way,it takes PLENTY of time saving a recorded file even a short one,is this normal?
10:06:54		Quit damaki (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:07:27	Paul_The_Nerd	"plenty" doesn't actually tell me anything.
10:07:48	Paul_The_Nerd	Though I wouldn't be able to do anything with it even if you used more descriptive words.
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10:08:14	Paul_The_Nerd	I don't use my player for recording, so words such as 'oodles' and 'gobs' or maybe even '5 minutes for a 12 meg file' wouldn't do me much good.
10:08:44	Paul_The_Nerd	But if it's taking longer than it seems like it should, that seems to reinforce the "bad disk" theorem.
10:09:06	Paul_The_Nerd	As well, recording wav, it should flush to disk every 2-2.5 minutes (that's 20-25 mb of WAV, right?)
10:09:38	opus	sorry..about a three mintues for a piece of 2 mintues,recording in mp3(128k)
10:10:11	Paul_The_Nerd	Rockbox doesn't record in MP3.
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10:10:58	opus	i didn't say anything about rockbox,i am talking about the retail firmware
10:11:24	opus	that's why it seems to be a little strange
10:11:44	Paul_The_Nerd	Well, you're in the Rockbox channel
10:11:51	Paul_The_Nerd	If you don't specify, it's going to be assumed you're talking about Rockbox.
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10:20:09	Paul_The_Nerd	If the firmware is generating skips every 2.5 minutes with 128kbps MP3, and Rockbox does it every 2.5 minutes with WAV, you've basically eliminated likelihood of it being anything but bad input. Either bad port, bad cable, bad source. At least, it should be flushing to disk every 2.5 minutes with MP3, unless they just felt like doing so.
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10:24:00	opus	ok,i will try to check those things,thanks anyway,and sorry for the inconvenience
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10:24:30	dongs	no, we're glad to help as long as your support request makes sense.
10:24:43	dongs	have you tried googling for your problem to see if other users had similar experience?
10:26:17	Kohlrabi	have you pt your files on a PC to see if it's a playback problem pf the player?
10:26:17	opus	i know that someone at misticriver's forums has asked similar qes.(about the skiping that occured)however no one has responded
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10:26:27	Kohlrabi	of*
10:27:28	Kohlrabi	And does the skip in rockboxcome when you playback the file recorded with orig FW?
10:27:39	Kohlrabi	Or when you record with rb and play it back?
10:27:46	opus	no,i'm still hearing those skipping,you see it's not only the sound,but it actually skips some parts
10:28:46	Kohlrabi	so the recording process is eroneous (or however it is spelled)
10:28:50	Kohlrabi	+r ;)
10:29:05	Kohlrabi	?
10:29:18	opus	yeah,kinda
10:29:35	Kohlrabi	tried recording with rb?
10:30:13	opus	yes indeed,and there is cases when it's not even playing the file,or playing it up to a certain point
10:30:17	Kohlrabi	or try recorindg to WAV and encoding later
10:30:45	Kohlrabi	maybe the player treis to encode on the fly, and can't quite cope with it
10:30:49	Kohlrabi	tries*
10:30:56	Paul_The_Nerd	Kohlrabi: Rockbox doesn't encode on the fly.
10:31:01	Kohlrabi	ah, OK
10:31:03	Paul_The_Nerd	Rockbox doesn't even encode while recording.
10:31:12	Kohlrabi	guessed so, OK :\
10:31:25	Kohlrabi	Should be HW-problem then
10:31:39	Paul_The_Nerd	I'm still pretty surprised the gaps occur at equalish intervals in the retail MP3 recordings and the Rockbox WAV recordings.
10:32:23	Paul_The_Nerd	That strongly suggests to me that the problem happens before the audio data gets to whatever firmware is running at the time.
10:32:45	opus	problem with int.mic itself?
10:32:55	Kohlrabi	maybe
10:33:01	Kohlrabi	tried ext-mic?
10:33:30	opus	not yet
10:33:47	Kohlrabi	or line in?
10:33:57	Kohlrabi	if that's sipported
10:35:00	Kohlrabi	goddamit my typing sucks
10:35:04	Kohlrabi	breakfast
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11:24:34	spupek	i guess, my dap's head going bad..:( return to iriver?
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12:00:34	spupek	what to do with my dap?dosfsck runs more than 8 hours, very slow, and now find some unreadable clusters:( and takes many time to determine it, that it is unreadable. wait till finishes?
12:01:29	spupek	sorry,i keep usking questions like that, but i hope someone here can help, or happend to tha same
12:01:37	dj-fu	gg english
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12:21:43	RedBreva	how do you switch between 'Picker' and 'Line Edit' modes with an iPod keypad?
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12:22:22	Galois	I think you just move the cursor one notch below the bottom line of the block of characters, and that will put the cursor on the line
12:28:01	RedBreva	Thanks..
12:29:08	PaulJam	is there a hotkey for the uisimulator to reload the wps?
12:31:32	midkay	no, just browse themes and select it again..
12:31:39	midkay	make a theme .cfg if you haven't, of course
12:32:15	PaulJam	ok, thank you
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15:04:50	spupek	can someone tell me, why original firmware lost option changes? is there any connection between this and that hdd's bootsector and its backup not same(reported by dosfsck)
15:05:23	ashridah	lost option changes?
15:05:51	spupek	yes, when i start, everything goes back to default
15:05:52	ashridah	on an iriver unit, afaik, the data is stored in flash memory, so a filesystem checker shouldn't have destroyed them
15:06:19	spupek	i guess, in the boot sector iriverstores some data
15:08:19	spupek	i have to correct, just look after: only goes back to default, when dosfsck repair filesystem errors..:$
15:09:06	spupek	and it made changes on hdd
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15:10:39	sensei73	hi there
15:11:07	spupek	mybe this is the main problem?:
15:11:08	spupek	There are differences between boot sector and its backup.
15:11:08	spupek	Differences: (offset:original/backup)
15:11:08	DBUG	Enqueued KICK spupek
15:11:08	spupek	65:03/00
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15:14:07	spupek	if i leave intact, than dosfsck says: Free cluster summary wrong.
15:14:55	sensei73	is there a way to install rockbox easily on an ipdo nano?
15:14:56	spupek	and if i choose to repair this cluster issue, then original firmware options goes back to default
15:16:18	spupek	http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodInstallation , i dont know, but see that
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15:18:16	zigford	sensei73: Nothing in life is easy
15:18:25	sensei73	thanks! a lot!
15:20:22	zigford	sensei73: sorry, its my bed time. toodles
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15:30:34	RedBreva	Ok mental blank... to create a patch (in Cygwin)
15:30:35	RedBreva	I am at rockbox-devel folder, and have changed manual/rockbox-interface/main.tex...
15:30:37	RedBreva	So what's wrong with cvs diff -ub manual/rockbox-interface/main.tex > kbrd.patch
15:30:38	RedBreva	??
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15:32:35	Mikachu	what's the problem?
15:32:54	RedBreva	no such directory
15:33:09	fraggsta	I'm getting a weird linking error that I don't understand while trying to compile rockbox for X5.
15:33:12	RedBreva	Aghhhh!!!! Ignore me!!
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15:33:22	Mikachu	use tabcomplete for the win
15:33:28	RedBreva	rockbox_interface!!!
15:33:42	Bagder	fraggsta: using an unpatched source?
15:33:54	sensei73	lo
15:33:55	sensei73	lol
15:34:01	sensei73	someone has a nano here?
15:34:10	fraggsta	Badger: No, I applied one patch. It doesn't seem to be anything to do with that though.
15:34:29	sharpe	hey everyone...
15:34:31	fraggsta	http://pastebin.com/703449 - there's the error
15:34:53	Bagder	so I blame the patch
15:35:00	Bagder	yeps
15:35:03	Bagder	iram is full
15:35:13	Bagder	you need to move something out of iram to link
15:35:33	Bagder	possibly it is a gcc4 problem
15:35:40	Bagder	we don't recommend gcc4 for m68k
15:35:54	fraggsta	Should I try again with GCC 3.x?
15:36:33	Bagder	gcc 3.4X is the best choice for m68k Rockbox builds
15:36:37	Bagder	3.4.x
15:37:02	fraggsta	ok, well it'll be a pain to compile them again but..meh, I'll watch TV or something
15:38:02	Bagder	that's why our instructions says you should use 3.4.X
15:38:07	Bagder	you decideed to not follow it
15:38:29	Bagder	that said, its it _sure_ your problem is because of this
15:38:32	Bagder	is not sure
15:38:37	Ctcp	Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
15:38:37	*	Bagder can't type
15:38:50	fraggsta	did they? fuck :/
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15:42:04	Bagder	if it builds fine without your applied patch, I would rather suspect the patch
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15:46:56	dj-fu	sensei73, I have a nano here, if you are still wondering something
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15:58:00	sensei73	<dj-fu>thanks
15:58:08	sensei73	i succefully install rockbox on it
15:58:19	sensei73	i just wondering if there more themes
15:58:20	dj-fu	oh, cool. enjoy :)
15:58:29	dj-fu	you can make your own or check the WpsGallery
15:58:44	dj-fu	I personally use zezayer, it doesn't have a Peak Meter (less cpu cycles) and is generally informative
15:58:47	sensei73	not good at it :(
15:58:59	sensei73	ok i will chek it
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15:59:31	RedBreva	sensei73: There are a few that have been tested here : http://rockbox-themes.redbreva.com/Theme_176x132x16.html
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16:02:19	dpro	re
16:02:32	sensei73	i think the sound are a lot more louder!!!
16:02:42	sensei73	tahn the original firmware
16:03:38	dpro	I did my first reality check last night dj'ing with 2 ipods and rb and I noticed _lots_ of dropouts when playing at other than original speed
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16:08:00	dj-fu	you were using rb to dj?
16:08:29	fraggsta	You were using IPODS to DJ?!
16:12:48	nobelium-	wow
16:12:50	nobelium-	:p
16:12:54	Rick	lol
16:13:12	Bagder	did the box rock? ;-)
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16:24:28	dpro	yup it was fin and it rocked .. but I really should look at the playbacksystem to understand and change it ...
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16:25:28	dpro	up to now I mostly hacked on the pitch interface to make it a bit more userfriendly
16:25:38	dpro	or make that a
16:25:41	*	dpro friendly
16:25:59	DarkJesus	Someone say DJ
16:26:25	fraggsta	It doesn't translate well for STUPID Americans. IE: 90% of them.
16:28:34	fraggsta	wait, this isn't the right channel at all :/
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16:36:19	ravon	Hmmmm. An XScale board and thttpd ported to Rockbox would be interesting.
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16:39:41	dsforsaken	hi
16:40:03	dsforsaken	i have a couple quesitons...
16:40:29	dsforsaken	if i install rockbox could i still sync with itunes?
16:42:48	dj-fu	no
16:42:52	dj-fu	itunes is the devil
16:42:56	dj-fu	you can sync with ctrl+c ctrl+v.
16:44:03	dsforsaken	also thoe whole reason i am switching to rockbox is because my menu button on my mini doesnt work, i was wondering if rockbox lets your remap the keys?
16:44:16	dsforsaken	so that mabe i can make rewind key act like the menu button?
16:44:23	nobelium-	yes..but probably you will have to compile the rockbox again
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16:46:10	dsforsaken	dam...
16:46:13	fraggsta	the X5 doc PDF tells me that rockbox can't provide a premade image, but the iaudioboot page just tells me to dump the image from the page into the FIRMWARE directory and shut down, which is right?
16:46:21	dsforsaken	can ipod linux remap keys?
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16:47:32	pussfeller	im getting a lot of lockups on my photo ipod using recent cvs's
16:47:45	pussfeller	is there anyway to track down what causes them
16:47:58	pussfeller	they happen on pause, and while playing
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16:51:52	nudelyn	Not directly relevant to rockbox, but interesting all the same: http://linux-karma.sourceforge.net/lkarmafs.html
16:52:12	nudelyn	Looks like it mounts the Karma (database-based music player) as a file system, translating the database into a directory structure.
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17:00:46	fraggsta	I have an..umm..slight problem with x5 installation. I followed the instructions to install iaudioboot, and now the unit won't boot. It turns on, says "result -1" and shuts down..
17:03:04	linuxstb_	Have you installed rockbox.iaudio and the .rockbox folder?
17:03:47	fraggsta	I didn't realise I had to do that first. Looks like I've got it to appear as a drive to the computer now though.
17:04:26	fraggsta	ok, it's booting rockbox now..phew
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17:40:57	webguest66	Hi all
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18:33:58	gggg	Hi, does anybody have problems when serching by title and album with tagcache?
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19:35:26	webguest42	any hint why my Ipod 4g stops at the Logo screen?
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20:34:24	Kohlrabi	heya, Tyron :D
20:34:27	Tyron	aye
20:35:26	Tyron	ok so
20:35:38	Tyron	i just installed rockbox on my fresh ipod nano
20:35:44	Tyron	the bootloader works fine
20:36:02	Tyron	but immediately after rockbox has loaded it kind of boots into the emergency disk mode :S
20:36:18	Tyron	even when its not connected to the pcs
20:36:25	Tyron	-s
20:36:47	Tyron	do some you may probably know what the problem could be?
20:36:51	Tyron	+of
20:37:55	Tyron	i also tried it with some older builds of rockbox, but still the same
20:38:09	Tyron	but i haven't tried it with bleeding edge build yet
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20:40:29	BHSPitLappy	Tyron: strange, try holding MENU down while it's booting
20:40:52	Tyron	that will get me to the old firmware right?
20:41:05		Quit theli_ua ("��")
20:41:58	Tyron	well
20:42:07	Tyron	it boots the original apple firmware
20:42:13	Tyron	what now?
20:42:56	BHSPitLappy	err
20:43:03	BHSPitLappy	I meant, while rockbox is starting
20:43:19	BHSPitLappy	didn't mean to hold it while the bootloader is listening to keypresses for an OS choice
20:43:28	Tyron	oh, ok
20:43:33	BHSPitLappy	sorry
20:44:50	Tyron	hm ok
20:45:00	Tyron	now it seems to be loaded correctly
20:46:43	Tyron	whee, i'll better get that manual ^^
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20:48:40	Tyron	so, does that mean that i have to press menu everytime i start my ipod? :/
20:52:38	Tyron	wth
20:53:32	BHSPitLappy	you might be able to find a setting...
20:53:34	BHSPitLappy	to disable diskmode
20:53:43	*	BHSPitLappy doesn't know rockbox well enough
20:54:29	Tyron	fuck
20:54:37	Tyron	now i rebooted it
20:54:44	hardeep	anyone here have an example file with album art embedded in the tags that crashes tag cache?
20:54:53		Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
20:55:05	Tyron	this time even pressing menu doesn't work :/
21:00
21:03:08	Tyron	great.
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21:09:39	PaulJam	is it a bug or a feature that there is no crossfade if you skip to the next track when the track is not in the buffer
21:09:57		Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:10:15	amiconn	pixelma: Wanna test something?
21:10:30	amiconn	I made a build that might fix the occasional freezes on Ondio
21:11:04	amiconn	If we are lucky it's just a DMA priority issue...
21:11:31	Genre9mp3	PaulJam: You can't say that it's a feature...
21:12:37	amiconn	PaulJam: I think crossfading in that situation might delay the trackchange so much that the user might think he didn't press skip...
21:17:29	PaulJam	ok, thank you
21:17:48		Quit PaulJam (".")
21:22:36		Join cv [0] (n=hpet@p549809BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
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21:23:13	cv	hi...i've a problem with my river h120: i installed rockbox and updated the database, and now rockbox hangs...is there any possibility to reboot the player?
21:23:30	cv	Else i've to wait until the battery is empty...
21:23:55	hardeep	cv: use a pin to press the reset button at the bottom of the player
21:24:05		Quit SereR0KR ("XChat Aqua")
21:25:00	cv	hardeep: thank you!
21:25:12	pixelma	amiconn: sure
21:25:15	cv	now i've the original firmware back?
21:25:44	pixelma	amiconn: can I download the build?
21:25:45	amiconn	pixelma: http//amiconn.dyndns.org/rockbox-ondiofm.zip
21:26:03	hardeep	cv: you need to hold rec button as system is booting to boot the original firmware
21:26:25	hardeep	if you want to remove rockbox altogether, you can find instructions on the rockbox web page
21:26:26	cv	hardeep: ok...so i can not destory the original firmware?
21:27:17	hardeep	cv: no, the rockbox bootloader you installed contains the original firmware and you can always boot into it by holding the rec button
21:29:59	cv	hardeep: thats fine....thank you!!
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21:33:26	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:36:55		Quit cv ()
21:49:13		Quit Farpnut (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:50:05		Join cv [0] (n=hpet@p549809BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
21:50:19	cv	hi...does anybody know how to install the rockcalendar?
22:00
22:03:23	cv	does anybody know how to install the rockcalendar?
22:04:33	Mikachu	what's the point of reasking the question if nobody has joined and there has been no conversation since the last time?
22:06:43	Pladask	what's the point of reasking the question if nobody has joined and there has been no conversation since the last time?
22:07:12	*	amiconn gets the impression someone is bored
22:07:27	Pladask	=)
22:08:27	cv	perhaps someone else can answer?
22:10:40	amiconn	Well, rockcalendar only exists as a patch. You need to compile a patched version of rockbox yourself
22:11:02		Join xopha12 [0] (n=iain@88-105-205-29.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
22:11:36	Hansmaulwurf	btw, why isnt the patch added to rockbox? noone got the time or something else
22:11:55	Mikachu	topic
22:12:06	amiconn	It has bugs, which were reported to the author
22:12:24	amiconn	I tried it a few times, then gave up
22:12:45	Hansmaulwurf	ah ok
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22:26:07	xopha12	does anyone know of a bootloader for the ipod that supports the multiboot specification?
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22:38:56	midkay	xopha12, sure, iPodLinux's loader.
22:40:33	amiconn	Afaik the rockbox bootloader can also boot ipl
22:40:40		Quit muesli__ ("ich will K�he!!!")
22:40:45	Mikachu	what is the "multiboot specification"?
22:42:09		Quit DarkJesus ("Leaving")
22:42:50	midkay	i took that to mean "specification of what you want to boot", like a menu..
22:43:11	midkay	rockbox's loader can boot iPL, yeah, but not via a menu, just a button.
22:44:00	Mikachu	it sounded like some sort of standard
22:44:17	Mikachu	maybe http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/manual/multiboot/
22:45:16	amiconn	Hanging build, grmpf!
22:45:20	amiconn	Bagder?
22:46:17	*	Bagder checks
22:47:35		Quit cv ()
22:48:01	amiconn	It seems the build system doesn't like my commits...
22:48:33	amiconn	Bagder: The '127.0.0.1' build server has a rather old m68k-elf-gcc (3.4.1)
22:49:19	Bagder	is there any known problems with that?
22:49:33	xopha12	yes, i did mean the multiboot spec as in grub
22:49:45	xopha12	the iPL bootloader doesnt support it
22:49:55	preglow	amiconn: that's what all the cvs builds were built with until we went distributed
22:50:04	preglow	amiconn: i don't think there are any issues
22:50:07	amiconn	Bagder: Not that I know of, but there must be a reason why the gcc team published newer 3.4.x
22:51:23	amiconn	I know that not all build servers use the newest-in series compilers (some use 3.4.5 or 3.4.4 for m68k, and 4.0.2 for arm) but that 3.4.1 is a bit old imho...
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22:52:46	Bagder	well, just because it feel old isn't really a strong reason to upgrade imho
22:53:05		Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:53:12	Bagder	and I think this version is on more servers than just this
22:53:45	sharpe	wow, last night i kept thinking that i had only written three pages, even when i was at the end of page four. i just realized that now...
22:54:46	amiconn	Bagder, preglow: On a related issue, do you think it is safe to use the modified m68k-elf-gcc on amd64 for distributed builds?
22:55:08	Bagder	if it builds fine binaries, I say go
22:55:31	preglow	well, I think it does
22:55:48	preglow	but it might explode in our faces for all i know, i don't really understand gcc code
22:56:50	sharpe	hmm... how can i finish up an essay on the plague?
22:57:42		Part xopha12
22:58:21	preglow	by writing it
22:58:33	sharpe	yeah, i'm not quite there.
22:59:11	preglow	don't ask me, i'm just crazy with happiness i don't need to write any essays
22:59:22	sharpe	:D
23:00
23:01:11		Quit RedBreva_ ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12")
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23:02:57	amiconn	Bagder: Ok, you can add my server as being capable of m68k builds
23:03:03	Bagder	ok
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23:09:39	sharpe	anyone wish to critize my conclusion? :)
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23:30:25	amiconn	Bagder: Builds are binary identical between amd64 and x86 linux (apart from the build time string of course)
23:30:39	amiconn	Build is still hanging, btw...
23:30:52	Bagder	no
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23:31:09	Bagder	whenever a hanf occurs and I kill it, it looks like this until the next build starts
23:31:16	amiconn	Ah ok
23:31:17	Bagder	s/hanf/hang
23:31:36		Quit linuxstb__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:31:43	Bagder	because it never get to do the final "redraw" since I killed it
23:32:43	amiconn	Hehe 'Hanf' (german) == hemp
23:32:53	Bagder	:-)
23:33:30	***	Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:35:43	amiconn	Did you find out why builds hang from time totime?
23:36:53	Bagder	no
23:37:06	Bagder	it looks like one of the builds never completes
23:37:25	Bagder	but I don't know if that is truly what happens or if something just makes it look like it
23:37:55	Bagder	I want it fixed by simply killing builds that that more than N seconds
23:38:07	amiconn	Which build? Is it the same build server everytime?
23:38:39	Bagder	I haven't checked recently but I saw more than one server
23:38:55	amiconn	Maybe ssh hangs. Do you know a way to detect this?
23:39:21		Part Pi
23:39:24	Bagder	well, a ssh hang would cause this effect
23:39:33	Bagder	and no, the script doesn't detect it
23:40:27		Join RoC_MM [0] (i=dragon@dsl-29-8.cofs.net)
23:40:53	RoC_MM	Is it possible to get an older build than the one listed on the daily builds page?
23:41:09	Bagder	no
23:43:21	ender`	RoC_MM: if you compile it yourself
23:43:31	RoC_MM	mmm
23:43:37	RoC_MM	how do I grab and old build?
23:44:09	Mikachu	cvs update -D "date"
23:44:23		Quit petur ()
23:45:32	RoC_MM	awesome
23:45:37	RoC_MM	thanks :-)
23:45:46	RoC_MM	how do I specify what server?
23:46:04		Join muesli__ [0] (n=muesli_t@88.134.20.76)
23:46:39	RoC_MM	wait I can answer that.
23:46:40	RoC_MM	NM.
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23:58:44	meph	gordon bennet i like rockbox!

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