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#rockbox log for 2006-07-02

00:02:10LinusNnot necessarily
00:03:07Rincewind_12I just observed that some patches do it this way (which would be some kind of "object oriented" ^^)
00:04:22LinusNwe are KISS followers here
00:04:57Rincewind_12what does KISS stand for (googling this wouldnt get the right answer I suppose...)
00:05:07LinusNKeep it Simple Stupid
00:05:29 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
00:06:03 Join akaidiot [0] (n=not@
00:12:08x1jmpis it possible to control the leds of the h1x0? the led function has no effect...
00:12:26 Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
00:12:59Rincewind_12I don't think so, but it would be cool to have the green led flashing on recording
00:13:59LinusNno, you can't control the leds
00:14:55x1jmpso they are completely controlled by the hardware?
00:23:23x1jmprockbox freezes when i often use pcmbuf_beep without having a longer pause between the calls
00:23:34x1jmpcan someone explain that?
00:24:26LinusNno i can't
00:25:48LinusNhow long does the pause need to be?
00:26:28LinusNok i see it
00:26:57LinusNthe beep function mixes the beep tone into existing pcm data to be played
00:27:32LinusNand there has to be a free chunk of pcm data in the queue for it to work
00:27:52LinusNbut it shouldn't freeze...
00:27:53 Join lds_ [0] (
00:28:38x1jmpi tried 100 msecs and it freezes, with 200 msecs it does not
00:29:19 Quit lodesi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:30:19 Part tucoz ("Leaving")
00:30:39 Quit scorche (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:31:43LinusNwow, the beep function looks pretty dangerous to me
00:32:05LinusNlooks as if it is capable of overwriting vital stuff
00:32:09 Join Moos [0] (
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00:32:44*petur hands LinusN the bug-zapper device
00:33:01LinusNhmm, maybe i'm wrong
00:33:13*petur asks it back ;)
00:33:54 Quit akaidiot (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:34:10*LinusN drops the bug-zapper device
00:34:15*LinusN goes north
00:35:19x1jmpis there an alternative to pcm_beep? preferly one which is already in the plugin api
00:35:31LinusNno there isn't
00:35:37LinusNand it shouldn't freeze
00:36:32LinusNx1jmp: are you playing music at the same time?
00:37:06LinusNthen i think i see a problem...
00:37:26LinusNhow long is the duration of the beep?
00:37:56x1jmp100 and 300 msecs
00:38:33LinusNif no sound is playing, it looks like the duration has to be shorter than the interval
00:39:23LinusNi still don't see how it should freeze though
00:39:42x1jmpso if i play music it shouldn't crash? ;)
00:40:15LinusNwell, you will probably see other interesting problems :-)
00:41:41x1jmpworks perfectly while playing music :)
00:42:24x1jmpbut it's not a solution for me...
00:43:39LinusNi know
00:44:11LinusNdoes it work if you do 100ms beeps in 110ms intervals?
00:48:57x1jmpseems not
00:49:34 Quit akaidiota (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:49:40x1jmpbtw when does it load the original firmware after a reset and when not?
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00:50:43Rincewind_12I think it depends on the RAM, if the unit is off for a while rb gets loaded, but if started immideatly the original firmware is "faster"
00:50:49LinusNit always loads rockbox unless you reset in the bootloader
00:51:46Rincewind_12if i reset (in rockbox) and start again immediatly afterwards I almost ever get the original firmware
00:52:12LinusNwhich device?
00:52:15 Quit lds_ ("Parti")
00:52:16x1jmpsame sometimes for me
00:52:19Rincewind_12If think this is "warm boot" versus "cold boot"
00:52:22Rincewind_12iriver h120
00:53:16LinusN"and start again"?
00:53:26x1jmpi have the same device and it sometimes starts the rockbox even if i restart immediately
00:53:31 Join scorche [0] (
00:53:35LinusNwhen you reset the h120, it always starts automatically
00:53:42Rincewind_12reset with the pin -> unit shuts down -> press ON to start again
00:53:53x1jmpyes, it shuts down
00:54:57LinusNmy h1x0 device start when i push the reset button
00:55:08LinusNin fact, all my h1x0 devices do
00:55:33ender`mine doesn't, though IIRC it used to
00:55:36Rincewind_12when my player was new it reseted for my too, but for quite a while it just shuts down
00:56:10LinusNthat's weird
00:56:31Rincewind_12I hope this is not a sign that the reset won't work some time in the future...
00:56:36x1jmpmaybe changed by an update of the original firmware?
00:56:52LinusNit's a hardware thing
00:57:05LinusNtha firmware can't control the reset
00:57:37Rincewind_12I didn't open my player yet, btw.
00:57:59x1jmpI also didn't and it never restarted
00:58:50LinusNwell, if you only have the original firmware, it may look as if it turns off
00:59:19LinusNbecause the original bootloader turns off if the On button isn't pressed when it starts
00:59:25|apo|I just watched a 45-minutes-firework.
00:59:53LinusNsome versions of the rockbox bootloader does that too
01:00:07Rincewind_12I have bootloader v6 (my first was v5)
01:00:26x1jmpI'm also using v6
01:02:22 Join Rince1312 [0] (
01:02:40Rince1312my conncetion broke
01:02:42LinusNok, i see that the latest bootloader does this (i'm always running experimental bootloaders mysepf)
01:03:15 Quit ender` (" I think I remember an episode of MacGyver where he overthrew a violent dictator with a rubber band, 2 bottle caps, and some n")
01:03:17 Nick Rince1312 is now known as Rincewind_ (
01:03:20LinusNand i also see why it then starts the original, that is a bug
01:04:46peturbtw, Linus, am I correct that we still miss something for h3x0 power management (that usb hub/pc selection in retailos)? (sorry to bump into the conversation)
01:05:02LinusNpetur: correct
01:05:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:05:41peturdoes it depend on some connection on the pcb we don't know yet?
01:06:00LinusNi don't think so
01:06:20LinusNi believe the patch in the tracker does it right
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01:10:33 Quit Spida (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:11:47x1jmpLinusN: can you give some advice for pcmbuf_beep?
01:12:02sharpeshould i just throw something into the conversation to sound important?
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01:12:25LinusNx1jmp: yes, fix the bug :-)
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01:13:56x1jmpI just wanted to come back to a previous topic...
01:14:35LinusNx1jmp: are you writing a plugin?
01:15:17LinusNx1jmp: try this, as a debugging test:
01:15:19x1jmpLinusN: yes, I want to generate morse codes :-)
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01:17:06 Quit tvelocity ("Ex-Chat")
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01:17:36LinusNin firmware/pcm_playback.c, line 514, add a call to dma_stop() before dma_start()
01:18:04LinusNas a test
01:19:56Rincewind_I'm off
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01:22:38x1jmpi recompiled and copied rockbox.iriver, that had no effect
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01:27:26LinusNdoes it hang immediately?
01:27:47x1jmpright after the first beep
01:28:43LinusNand the first beep is 100ms?
01:30:20x1jmpin that case it was 300ms
01:30:32x1jmpbut a single 100ms beep worked
01:30:37LinusNand how long delay between beeps?
01:32:43x1jmp100ms (although it didn't sound so)
01:33:22LinusNyou do know that the beep function returns immediately, before the beep is finished?
01:36:26x1jmpno... it never looked like it really does
01:38:15LinusNin any case, it shouldn't freeze
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01:44:04peturstrange, my build for h340 errors out on demystify.c, I already did configure and make clean...
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01:56:00LinusNgotta sleep
01:56:03LinusNnite all
01:56:06peturme too
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02:01:09 Quit petur ("Zzzz")
02:02:57Moosbye all, nightie
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03:15:36Amieni'v installed the ipod theme for rockbox .. but the text is all white now .. how can i change the theme without using rockbox?
03:15:49Amienwhat file do i need to edit to change the startup theme
03:20:23scorcheAmien: just clear your options...while booting up, turn the hold switch on
03:20:43Amienbut then all my settings are gone?
03:21:01scorchehave you not saved your settings in a file?
03:21:31scorchethen yes...all your settings will be gone
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03:30:12saratogaDid Josh ever come back asking about the 3G port?
03:30:16saratogai never check IRC
03:30:37saratogaif he does, or if someone knows who he is, could they have him PM me on the forums or whatever?
03:31:01saratogai'm half interested in working on it, so if hes doing it, I'd like to talk to him
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05:11:00fiftyfour123i have 2 partitions on my ipod one fat32 and the other HFS being the primary partition, i am trying to boot rockbox off the fat32 partition through the ipodlinux loader 2, and i cant seem to get it to boot. will this work or not?
05:16:34 Quit fiftyfour123 ("Chatzilla 0.9.71 [Firefox]")
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05:26:18JdGordonwho knows where the option to recursivly insert directories is? i cant find the option in the menus :p
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05:29:52scorcheunder playlist options
05:30:47JdGordongrr.. cheers, wasnt expecting it there :p
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05:46:25Mikachusee, i told you the menu layout was confusing
05:52:53scorchewell, it DOES have to do with playlist options...
05:53:20scorcheonw would just think that playlist options should be under general settings
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06:11:29JdGordonMikachu: ive seen that and agree with most of it.. but no matter how u fix it its still gonna be too complex
06:13:05Mikachui think it can at least be sorted a bit better
06:13:15Mikachuit's only a suggestion layout
06:13:54sharpei've an idea, and it's not really rockbox related...
06:14:33 Quit cmug (Connection timed out)
06:17:30JdGordonwell dont keep it to yourself sharpe... we all want ideas...
06:18:34sharpeit's funny defragmenting a drive that has ~60 gigs used...
06:21:11sharpeoh noes! i've a scratch that's noticeable...
06:25:42JdGordon... goodbye resale value :p
06:26:15sharpebut wait, i can buy over-priced products online !
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07:43:40mikeo1whats the deal with the sandisk e200 series? have they provided hardware details yet?
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08:15:35 Join sepht [0] (
08:15:39sephtAnyone here?
08:16:01sephtAnyways, anyone know where I can find a download link for the rockboy plugin?
08:16:15sephtcookies to whoever helps me :-D
08:19:51 Quit MrStaticVoid ("Lost terminal")
08:20:43 Quit damaki_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:22:05midkaysepht, it's included in the daily builds.
08:22:55midkaydo i get the cookies fedex express, or.. ground..? express would be better for me, i might not be around at some point next week...
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08:29:30*sepht hands midkay a box of cookies
08:29:40midkayaw, virtual ones? :(
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08:29:55midkaywhat a waste of my time.
08:30:01*midkay throws them into Recycle Bin
08:31:14sephtmidkay: really?
08:31:24midkayreally what?
08:31:27sephtshouldn't there be like a rockboy.rock file somewhere?
08:31:40midkayyes, it would be in /.rockbox/viewers.
08:32:03midkayyou can't run it from browse plugins, because you need to launch it via a .gb or .gbc file anyways.
08:32:28*sepht sends midkay a box of tasty virtual cookies
08:33:04*midkay deflects the incoming package to /temp
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08:38:12 Part sepht
08:52:23*sharpe thinks midkay should've chosen /dev/null
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08:53:01*midkay sees that sharpe has just shown his stupidity for the millionth time.
08:53:27 Join JoeBorn [0] (
08:53:32*sharpe shows indifference
08:54:52*JdGordon would have to agree with sharpe on that one...
08:54:55*midkay shows the back of his right hand to sharpe up-close
08:55:44*sharpe notices that midkay does not know the back of his right hand as well as he should
08:55:58midkay.. before his vision fades out to black
08:56:42sharpeoh no! a black piece of paper!
09:02:15sharpewoo! three in the morning.
09:03:05sharpewell, not like i have to be anywhere today...
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09:05:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:09:27*scorche comes back to the virtual world and notices that he missed a chance to team up with midkay to make fun of sharpe
09:09:48midkayscorche, bastard.. i was waiting for you and you didn't show.
09:10:04scorchei'm sorry!
09:10:07scorchenext time
09:10:14scorchewe will "git im gud"
09:13:49scorcheha...i looked at this....then i remembered about our little topic in here =P
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11:52:11linuxstbfiftyfour123: (If you read this in the logs) - Rockbox doesn't understand the Apple Partition Map (APM) which I am assuming your HFS-formatted ipod is using. So just adding a FAT32 partition to that disk won't work - you'll either need to add APM support to Rockbox or repartition to use a MBR partition map.
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12:33:41huerlimahi, i am not very familiar with c coding...can anybody help me with this error:warning: assignment makes integer from pointer without a cast. it appears when i just initialize a variable char n; and then try to assign something to it. n = "ultrashorttime";
12:34:04 Quit damaki__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:34:57huerliman is not a pointer i thought. and i am trying to assign a string to it... where is the problem?
12:36:21merbananhuerlima: you need a *char for a string
12:36:34merbananthis is basic c, find a tutorial
12:37:24huerlimai know... i bought two books and am trying to figure it out since three hours...
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12:58:35huerlimamerbanan: thank u very much... i have a big lack in c programming. but ill catch up. good support!
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14:48:09tucozBagder, wikispam
14:48:51tucozBagder, very suspicious at least. Lot's of strange names registered today
14:48:53 Join mirak [0] (
14:51:08Genre9mp3can't we do something about it? It's really annoying
14:51:56tucozGenre9mp3, I know. There are some things that could be done, but I think the administrators should do it.
14:52:13Genre9mp3Can we somehow, help?
14:52:15tucozI read about a blacklist plugin on the twiki site
14:52:36Genre9mp3I mean, can we delete those entries ourselves, or only the admins?
14:53:01tucozNot sure what we can do about this kind of spam, but when people add invisible links to some page we can simply edit the page and remove those links
14:53:21tucozand report the spammer to Bagder, LinusN or Zagor
14:54:38tucozit might be possible to remove the entries, not sure. But, I think it's best to leave that to the admins til we hear something else
14:54:48tucozfor them to be able to block ip's etc.
14:55:25Genre9mp3PrPr, BuyPhentermine, MartaFlo, LoKi, GroMor, RobbyWilliams, AdminBags & AdminSpam are surely spam
14:55:40tucozhehe, no shit
14:55:55 Quit darkless_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:58:25Genre9mp3Oh... and MartinArver is spam :P
14:58:36tucozsomeone changed that?
15:01:10tucozthey should definitley install the Black List Plugin (in case they haven't done so already)
15:02:11Genre9mp3Well, let's hope it will help
15:03:08Genre9mp3I heard of some suggesting to leave the Twiki system and go for Mediawiki
15:03:55tucozWonder if such a migration is easy
15:04:30Genre9mp3Wikipedia uses Mediawiki, right?
15:05:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:05:46tucozyes, I think so. Maybe a modified version of that
15:06:26Genre9mp3"Historically, MediaWiki was developed to serve the needs of Wikipedia" from a... Wikipedia article :)
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15:07:16tucozgot to go
15:07:17 Part tucoz ("Leaving")
15:07:34Genre9mp3But anyway, maybe it's too much work to switch to Mediawiki
15:08:30JdGordonhas anyone else had trouble getting gcc working under ubuntu 6.06?
15:11:43 Join tucoz [0] (
15:12:00tucozJdGordon: No, works fine here
15:12:57Hansmaulwurfbtw, whats the sense of wikispam?
15:13:00JdGordonbrand new install and i cant get gcc to work :'( im not getting my coding fix for the nite
15:13:25Genre9mp3Hansmaulwurf: nonsense
15:13:32Hansmaulwurfah ok
15:13:33JdGordonah :) seems to be working now
15:13:39JdGordonthe dependancioes are all wrong :p
15:13:42tucozHansmaulwurf: to use googles hit rank for rockbox for instance, for your spam
15:13:52tucoz(if that made sense)
15:14:16 Quit huerlima ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.11")
15:15:01Hansmaulwurfthe funniest thing are their NO.SPAM mail accounts ^^
15:15:28JdGordonthe NO.SPAM is added to every email
15:15:32JdGordonisnt it?
15:15:46 Quit tucoz (Client Quit)
15:17:11 Quit Sinbios (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:20:44HansmaulwurfWho is the Kevin who added the id-tag-info for the remote
15:21:23Hansmaulwurfcoz with the latest bleeding edge I cant exit the id-tag-info with remote buttons
15:24:13Genre9mp3Very impressive design...
15:24:16JdGordonweeee... cross compilers finnaly compiling
15:24:49JdGordonwow Genre9mp3, wtf is that?
15:25:28Genre9mp3It's a 2000$ portable recorder....
15:30:18Hansmaulwurf <−−- anyone?
15:32:06Genre9mp3Hansmaulwurf: I think Kevin is TiMiD
15:40:11 Quit mirak (Connection timed out)
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15:46:29JdGordonanyone around?
15:47:32JdGordonbah, damn, dw
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16:12:17user01is rockbox still developing ogg playback on the ipod 4g grayscale?
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16:13:36user01i was suprised at how buggy ogg playback is skipping on my files like 20% of the time during playback
16:14:06PaulJami'm sure that after the feature freeze the ogg playback will be improved on ipods.
16:14:36PaulJamuser01: are you using a wps with a peakmeter?
16:14:56user01i hope so...the games are cool and stuff...but audio playback is the most important i think...
16:15:26user01PaulJam: the default screen i just installed it...would turning it off help?
16:15:48PaulJamyes, the peakmeter eats a lot of cpu time.
16:16:11user01thats the two horizontal bars at the bottom?
16:16:27user01how do i turn them off?
16:16:51PaulJamyou need to load another wps/theme that has no peakmeters
16:17:57user01is there a way to figure out what theme uses the least?
16:19:07user01skips ith iamp
16:19:20PaulJamyou could try the iCatcher theme or look in the WpsGallery
16:21:05user01PaulJam: its working better now :)
16:21:54user01hmmm skipped once...
16:25:52user01PaulJam: how do i find the more minimal playback wps? skipped twice... i checked the gallery, but not sure which one would be the most basic
16:27:20 Join Schu [0] (
16:28:04ZweiundvierzigJust make one yourself, it's pretty easy
16:28:28user01Zweiundvierzig: ok where are the instructions?
16:28:32PaulJamdoes it skip when you are in the browser or in the menu?
16:28:37 Join akaidiot [0] (
16:28:41ZweiundvierzigOne second
16:29:31Genre9mp3...or you can just remove the peak meters from rockbox_default
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16:30:53user01PaulJam: if it does skip in the menu there is probably nothing i can do right?
16:31:24 Quit MarcoPolo (Remote closed the connection)
16:31:41PaulJamuser01: yes, i think so. but i can't say for sure, i don' own an ipod.
16:32:53user01PaulJam: weird that flac plays better than ogg...unless the decompression takes more cycle time with ogg
16:33:21PaulJamflac is less complex than ogg
16:33:26 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
16:33:50Zweiundvierzig[16:30:53] <user01> PaulJam: if it does skip in the menu there is probably nothing i can do right? < Scroll slowly ^^;
16:34:15ZweiundvierzigI always notice that when I scroll too quickly it skips
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16:35:18PaulJamZweiundvierzig: i wanted to know if it skips if he doesn't scroll at all
16:35:21user01PaulJam: from the menu it didnt skip on one file it skipped like crazy on default, and skipped 3 times on icatcher
16:36:36user01PaulJam: so i guess i should just go out to the menu on playback :)
16:37:14SchuHmm, I'm trying to look on the site, but it's a little vague. I'm looking at buying a DAP, but basically want it to play files gaplessly (NOT crossfade), and I also want to play flac files. So which DAPs have these features added with rockbox?
16:37:15PaulJamuser01: or you could try if it helps to create a wps that shows only minimal info and without graphics
16:37:41user01PaulJam: thanks im on vacation in colombia and have to go climb mountains...ill have to work on it when i get back in a week
16:38:01linuxstb_Schu: All of the supported ones on the front page apart from the Archos models. The iriver H1x0 and H3x0 are the best supported in Rockbox at the moment.
16:38:26linuxstb_(the ipods and iaudio x5 are still in the early stages of developement)
16:38:31Schuthanks linuxstb_
16:38:51 Quit user01 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
16:38:59idnarthe X5 works pretty well already, though
16:39:30Schuso I guess Archos's don't because of the hardware decoder
16:39:47linuxstb_How's the battery life on the X5? Both the irivers now out-perform the original firmware when running Rockbox.
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16:40:10Genre9mp3linuxstb_: AFAIK, not good
16:42:06linuxstb_Schu: Yes - they have a very slow CPU but a DSP which takes care of the MP3 decoding. The CPU probably wouldn't be able to decode FLAC, but WAV playback has just become possible.
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16:42:58SchuI guess that's rules that out of my shopping list
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16:44:01Schuno players since the famous rio karma have had gapless in the original firmware, right?
16:44:32Genre9mp3Schu: Most probably
16:44:33Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: You should suggest to them that they create a page in our Wiki for Rockbox runtime tests, to go along with the IpodRuntime and IriverRuntime ones
16:45:32linuxstb_Genre9mp3: I'm surprised by that - it's worse than the ipods...
16:46:14Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: Sure but I am not posting on actually... I was just curious one day and searched for that... besides, I don't have an X5
16:46:57Genre9mp3AFAIK, it's 15 hours with iAudio original fw
16:47:19PaulJammaybe it is a similar problem like on the h300, the iaudio also has usbotg.
16:48:11Genre9mp3PaulJam: Yes, it could be that, too... but besides that, the Power managment is on early stages on X5
16:48:15Paul_The_NerdYeah, I was reading to see if they say more about the test conditions later on.
16:50:24Paul_The_NerdWhat we need is a .cfg file, and a playlist of Free audio files (mp3s preferably) available at the battery_bench wiki page, so that in the future everyone can run battery bench under as identical conditions as we can come up with.
16:50:42Genre9mp3Does anybody know, if H300 is capable of 24bit 96Khz wav playback? Does rockbox support that on swcodec targets?
16:51:05Paul_The_NerdIsn't the max for the Hxxx's 20/48? Or 20/44?
16:51:08linuxstb_Yes, it's supported. But it will be downsampled to 16-bit/44.1KHz.
16:51:25Genre9mp3ok...thanx guys
16:51:50linuxstb_The ipods should be able to support it (the DAC goes up to 24-bit/96KHz) but it's not implemented yet.
16:52:22Genre9mp3linuxstb_: Hmmm...didn't knew that about iPods
16:52:55Genre9mp3So it depends on the DAC and not on fw
16:53:18linuxstb_Yes, the Coldfire-based players are limited to 11.025KHz, 22.050KHz and 44.100KHz. The ipods can do a much wider range of samplerates up to 96KHz.
16:54:15linuxstb_In theory the Coldfire players can do 20-bit playback, but AFAIK, it would mean not using DMA, and it hasn't been implemented.
16:55:16Schuis there a list of features for rockbox anywhere?
16:55:21Genre9mp3Cool to know that with rockbox you can playback these files, downsampled at least
16:55:47Paul_The_NerdSchu: The "Why Choose Rockbox" link on the front page.
16:55:54linuxstb_Yes, but you would be better off by converting to 16-bit/44.1KHz on your PC using a higher quality resampler.
16:56:05Schuah, cheers
16:56:28Genre9mp3linuxstb_: ok, good to know
16:56:43linuxstb_Genre9mp3: Also, I'm not sure how many codecs support it. I know FLAC does (I tested it), and I would expect the WAV codec to as well.
16:57:15Genre9mp3linuxstb_: I think also vorbis supports that, but I'm not sure
16:57:20preglowcodecs support what? 24 bit output?
16:57:38linuxstb_24-bit/96KHz files.
16:57:39SchuAHA! Minesweeper plugin, I love rockbox now!
16:57:54preglownot much point in supporting 96khz files for lossy codecs
16:58:00preglowmost of our codecs can do 24 bit output
16:58:04Schushame I can't plug a mouse in or something! :P
16:58:04preglowalready do, as a matter of fact
16:58:34Genre9mp3preglow: Yes, you are right, 24bit lossy is pointless
16:58:38*Schu is 3rd best in Australia, 81st in the world for minesweeper
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16:59:29preglowGenre9mp3: 24 bit lossy isn't pointless, and as a matter of fact, most of our lossy codecs output at around 24 bit or even higher
16:59:36preglow96khz lossy is pointless
16:59:50preglowsince the encoder would toss away all frequencies above 20khz anyway, since we can't hear them
17:00:01Genre9mp3I was wondering though, if someone can detect differences between 16bit & 24bit or 44Khz/96Khz...
17:00:08telliott_Does TagCache handle large drives and collections yet?
17:00:32preglowGenre9mp3: there are people who claim the can
17:01:41merbananGenre9mp3: 16bit & 24bit should be easy to differ if you reach the high or low end of the dynamic range of 16bits
17:01:49preglowespecially the low
17:02:04Genre9mp3preglow: claim or do? (ABX testing)
17:02:12preglowGenre9mp3: most just claim, heh
17:02:39preglowsome very quiet passages of classical music probably do sound bad in 16 bit audio
17:02:47preglownot as bad if dithered, but anyway
17:03:20Paul_The_NerdJust wondering: I recently ended up with a free sound system, has a digital in and out, but they're COAX. Anyone know how likely there will be of a noticeable delay for a coax -> Optical, or Optical-> Coax digital conversion?
17:03:32*Genre9mp3 wonders what will be the next standard after Audio-CDs
17:03:41preglowPaul_The_Nerd: not likely at all
17:03:59linuxstb_Genre9mp3: Lossy downloads with DRM...
17:04:15Genre9mp3with what? ewwwwwwwwwwww
17:04:38preglowthat'll mark the point at which i stop buying music
17:04:39Paul_The_NerdI mean, in most cases (music output from the DAP) there's no reason for a small delay of any sort to bother me, but the other use for a converter would be gaming, where sound sync is more noticeable.
17:04:56preglowPaul_The_Nerd: in that context any latency would be 100% neglibable
17:05:12preglowjust spelled correctly
17:05:18linuxstb_I like the dvd-audio standard - not so much for high-resolution audio, but its flexibility to use any samplerate from 44.1KHz up to 192KHz and the long playback time.
17:05:22merbananPaul_The_Nerd: look up the latency of tp -> fiber converters
17:05:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:05:33preglowlinuxstb_: i don't like the copy protection schemes...
17:05:35linuxstb_But no-one bothered to make audio-only DVD-Audio players...
17:05:49Paul_The_NerdRhythm games are getting more and more frustrating, with HDTV lag and bleh.
17:05:51preglowaudio only dvd-audio players do exist
17:05:52linuxstb_preglow: It's optional (and hacked now).
17:06:02preglowwith analogue only outputs
17:06:04linuxstb_preglow: I haven't seen any apart from in-car models.
17:06:05preglowlinuxstb_: it is? cool
17:06:19*Paul_The_Nerd wonders if his thing supports DVD Audio.
17:06:23linuxstb_See my project here for info:
17:06:38linuxstb_I spent a few months last year reverse-engineering DVD-Audio...
17:06:42preglow192khz, ahahahha
17:06:50preglowoverkill x 4
17:07:33Genre9mp3DRM stands for Disgusting Rights Management, right?
17:07:43Paul_The_Nerd"Digital Rental Methodology"
17:07:44telliott_I love DVD-Audio and SACD
17:07:58Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: LOL
17:08:04Schuabout the minesweeper plugin......
17:08:38 Join bam_ [0] (
17:08:40SchuI actually know a guy who has done a very proffesiional looking version that is now used by the best players
17:08:46preglowi don't really know what to think about sacd
17:08:48preglowi like pcm...
17:09:05 Join cismo_ [0] (
17:09:15Schuthe screenshot I see on the page looks pretty primitive
17:09:36dionoeait was made to work on an archos recorder's screen :)
17:09:45 Quit Rondom (Nick collision from services.)
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17:09:57Paul_The_NerdSchu: It's open source. All someone has to do is post a patch with either a replacement, or an updated version on the tracker.
17:10:26linuxstb_But it seems both SACD and DVD-Audio have failed to make any impact at all though.
17:10:54Schui'll see if I can get him interested (especially if I'm going to use it :D)
17:12:09telliott_Those Elton John SACD's are killer!
17:12:23linuxstb_The challenge is to make Minesweeper look good on all devices with LCDs ranging from mono 112x64 up to colour 320x240.
17:12:39 Quit dpro (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
17:12:48*Genre9mp3 curses the sudden rain
17:13:05 Join g0n [0] (
17:13:10g0nhi ho all ^^
17:13:26g0ni have a question ;)
17:13:40Genre9mp3g0n: Go for it
17:13:42g0nthe plugin " doom " on the rockbox firmware
17:14:06g0nis this a game? is it the Game : Doom ? Firstperson shooter ?? :D
17:14:21Genre9mp3g0n: Yes
17:14:26g0nnice ^^
17:14:38g0näähm another question ^^
17:14:44 Quit damaki_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:14:53g0nwhen i start the game, the player told me that a .wad file is missing ...
17:15:16maekaso who do I have to pay (and how much) to speed up codec improvements on the ipod?
17:16:25Schu112x64 might look good but only for very small minesweeper grids....
17:17:25g0nvery nice thx ;)
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17:17:41g0ni have a H340 iRiver, do it wokrs on it ? (the game)
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17:18:21preglowmaeka: first we need to get 3.0 out the door, then you can start paying me :>
17:18:29Genre9mp3g0n: Yes
17:18:46 Join akaidiota [0] (
17:19:28maekafor I don't care about anything but the skipping at this point. Not being alone, I could raise enough case to fuel a couple of weekends of dedicated codec tweaking.
17:19:59 Part telliott_
17:20:10g0nok thx ;) i love ROCK Box ;D Have a nice day / night ;) cya we'll see us soon i think ^^
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17:20:23LloreanYes, but which codec?
17:21:01maekamp3 is the most widely used, so start there.
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17:21:29maekaskipping APS encodes are no fun.
17:21:39Genre9mp3Isn't mp3 optimised enough?
17:21:54LloreanAre you sure the work wouldn't be better focused somewhere else?
17:21:59LloreanMaybe an area that might improve all performance?
17:22:36maekaThat, I don't know. I've been told the reason for the skipping is less than idealy tweaked codecs.
17:22:55LloreanThe reason for skipping is that a lot of stuff needs optimizing.
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17:24:09maekaa little bird has wispered in my ear that the devs are not to much in favour of bounties, prefer donations
17:24:44maekaBut, I'll be honest, I fear spending money on a new theme.
17:24:57LloreanA new theme?
17:24:58pijuliushi all, could someone please help me with rockbootloader? I have a problem with booting into original firmware.
17:25:19preglowmaeka: some devs might like bounties
17:25:24preglowbut not too many are into codec optimising
17:25:33 Join [1]toxicfume [0] (
17:25:35maekait's tough work.
17:25:54LloreanAnd bounties also often come from people who want to influence the direction work is being done.
17:25:57pijuliusthe problem is that if I add some arrays "short"s to the ipod.c , the original firmware won't load, otherwise everything works fine
17:26:07linuxstb_maeka: Which ipod do you have?
17:26:28*Llorean doesn't have a problem with even moderately high bitrate MP3s on his iPod.
17:27:01maeka5g 60
17:27:24linuxstb_And you've tried the usual tricks to get flawless playback?
17:27:26maekaLlorean - even when scrolling?
17:27:44LloreanScrolling is display and button driver code...
17:27:49maekausual tricks being no replaygain, no eq, and no crossfade?
17:27:58linuxstb_Yes :)
17:27:58LloreanAnd no peakmeter in your WPS.
17:28:10linuxstb_Or at least, not everything.
17:28:32linuxstb_Or leaving the WPS during playback and leaving your ipod sitting in a menu.
17:29:39Lloreanlinuxstb_: You could also just remove all the %s'es from a WPS, and no peakmeters or progress bar.
17:29:58Genre9mp3linuxstb: So you'll end up with a WPM! :)
17:29:59linuxstb_But that would still be more LCD updates than doing nothing in a menu.
17:30:09LloreanI suppose.
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17:31:19maekaI don't use a peakmeter - but that is a major resource hog?
17:31:31LloreanIt causes the screen to redraw a lot.
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17:32:17maekaI'll try going w/o scrolling text - but lordy some GY!BE tracks have _long_ names.
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17:32:53maekathankyou for the chat, I guess I just drop a donation and not be a dick of a backseat driver.
17:33:04 Quit cismo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:33:40linuxstb_It's not as if all the devs are happy with the current ipod performance - things will be improved after 3.0 is out.
17:34:01LloreanYeah, it's not how things are supposed to be working, just where they are for the moment.
17:34:47maekaso the push is to get 3.0 out the door, then setting onto performance issues?
17:35:10 Quit akaidiot (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:35:16LloreanWell, it's a feature freeze, so things that don't affect 3.0 targets aren't supposed to be worked on at all.
17:35:29Llorean3.0 is a non-iPod release, so iPod-only performance issues have nothing to do with it.
17:36:56SchuDoes anyone know of a kind of emulation site that shows you how different players interface?
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17:38:14Paul_The_NerdThere we go. I wish I knew why this client wouldn't connect before.
17:38:39Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: Which client?
17:38:40PaulJamSchu: there are uisimulators for the rockbox targets, but you have to compile them yourself.
17:39:13Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: Gaim. It has something to do with the 'borrowed' nature of my current internet connection. I'll have a proper one in less than 24 hours though.
17:39:22Schuthat's pretty cool
17:39:35Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: ok
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17:41:03Schuah just found it
17:41:20Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: XavierGr tought me a little trick to kill Ghost nicks
17:41:57Paul_The_NerdOh, I know how to kill 'em
17:42:06Paul_The_NerdI just didn't feel like doing it through the webclient.
17:42:09 Quit Ribs ("Leaving")
17:42:19Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: Oh, I see
17:43:26 Join rotator [0] (n=e@rockbox/developer/rotator)
17:44:44maekaOne last question, are all ipods "created equal" when it comes to rockbox performance at this time? Or are some models experiencing more skipping than others?
17:46:41Paul_The_NerdThe 5Gs have the worst skipping.
17:48:00maekano kidding
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18:02:21Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: ;)
18:02:40Paul_The_Nerd24 hours and I have my own internet again.
18:03:34 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
18:03:52Genre9mp3Glad you didn't say : 24 hours and I have the internet for my own! :P
18:08:04 Quit akaidiota (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:10:17Paul_The_NerdNo, no, I'm not taking it over for another year or two. These things take time.
18:11:33linuxstbCan you do something about those spammers? Something medieval...
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18:12:26MassaHi everybody!
18:17:07 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
18:17:23Genre9mp3Hallo Massa
18:18:02Genre9mp3(better late than never) ;)
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18:38:25SchuI'm just curious, since lossless codecs are intrinsically gapless, are there any players other than the karma that play lossless foles gaplessly (read: doesn't actually enforce or require a gap)?
18:38:36Schuwith original firmware that is
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18:49:11linuxstb_Schu: No, I don't know of any gapless DAPs apart from the Karma and Rockbox.
18:49:46Schuwell, i don't think it would actually require it to be gapless as such
18:50:07Schubut I doubt what I'm thinking about exists anyway
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18:52:37Paul_The_Ner1Schu: Most players don't take the extra steps necessary to ensure that no gap is inserted between songs while decoding / playback of the next file begins.
18:52:53linuxstb_All players?
18:53:20Schui know
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18:54:43SchuI'm just disappointed in Cowon, that they add support for ogg and flac which are perfect for gapless, and they just don't bother
18:55:10Schuthey go 90% of the way and just drop out at the last moment
18:56:05Schugood on ya rockbox! Seeya.
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19:05:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:11:03spiorfhi, how can i make a screenshot of a theme?
19:11:24Paul_The_NerdEnable screendump in the debug menu
19:11:32Paul_The_NerdThen when you plug in a USB cable, it takes a screenshot instead of connecting.
19:11:51spiorfthanks Paul_The_Nerd
19:12:49sharpeThat's it. Hmm...
19:12:51spiorfthat's a nice interface
19:13:38 Quit akaidiot (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:13:41sharpeI need to think of some ideas for plugins sometime today...
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19:37:23MrShleeMy Iriver H340 just bricker.. i'm sure it has nothing to do with rockbox.
19:37:44sharpeOh noes!
19:37:58Genre9mp3MrShlee: How that happened?
19:38:47 Quit akaidiota (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:39:27spiorfi just uploaded a new ipod nano theme
19:39:52spiorfcan the white apple logo give copyright problems?
19:40:11Paul_The_NerdVery likely
19:40:15MrShleeIt ran low on battery.. turned itself off and hasn't restarted
19:40:25MrShleeno spin.. no activity..
19:40:45MrShleeplug power.. usb.. reset.. boot into rockbox. boot into iriver firmware
19:40:49MrShleecomplete brick :(
19:41:12MrShleeplus if I hold the thing upto my face to hear if its spinning with the power plugged in.. I get a small shock
19:41:16MrShleebad earthing I think
19:42:08MrShleeI miss it already.
19:42:22MrShleeif it ever boots again.. I'll make it auto shutdown at 35% or something
19:42:22Genre9mp3hmmm...sounds bad
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19:44:57Genre9mp3I suggest leave it for some period of time and then insert the charger to see if it makes it to charge
19:46:45Genre9mp3or better try to boot into rockbox and if it does insert immediately the charger
19:48:36MrShleeMaybe i'll get lucky
19:48:40MrShleeohh well
19:49:42Genre9mp3But if it's only a battery problem, your player is not bricked
19:50:05PaulJambtw, i think on the iriver devices it's normal if you get shocked when you touch the metal parts if the charger is inserted and you are well grunded yourself.
19:50:08MrShleeI don't know if it was low battery..
19:50:14MrShleeor if the thing just blew
19:50:44Genre9mp3How much battery life did you get before that happens?
19:51:18MrShleeno idea..
19:51:28MrShleeGuessing.. it was fairly low
19:52:17MrShleeI was in my car. driving around for a few hours
19:52:17Genre9mp3As I said leave it for the night and then try to boot rockbox...maybe it's just the battery
19:52:35 Quit MrShlee ("Changed by popular Request - "I am the heart of your darkness, you stinking oompa-loompa morons!"")
19:52:50Genre9mp3If everything goes well, the next thing you have to do, is replace it
19:53:00Genre9mp3Oh..he left..
19:54:37Genre9mp3BTW, charging in bootloader would be good to have
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19:56:21Paul_The_NerdI do believe it's planned for the next bootloader version, but I'm not sure
19:56:56Genre9mp3This is not due in 3.0 though, right?
19:57:31*petur points at Linus
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19:57:41Paul_The_NerdWell, 3.0 is supposed to have a "final" bootloader version, or at least a "release" one
19:58:22Genre9mp3Hmmm...'s on "Other goals for release" in ReleaseTodo page
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20:02:08Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: Now that it came to my's your Sansa going?
20:02:18 Quit TCK (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:02:58Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: I haven't done much of anything with it, as I'm not really able to do anything yet, but it seems like progress is being made. It'd be nice if Sandisk helped a bit more though.
20:03:48Genre9mp3I suppose that BDM is not possible with the PortalPlayer chip, right?
20:04:16Genre9mp3(not that I know much of BDM actually...)
20:04:31Paul_The_NerdWell, I've just been told it isn't.
20:06:02Genre9mp3And how hard it will be to make a bootloader without it?
20:06:58Paul_The_NerdWell, progress is being made in reverse engineering the firmware update file format. And it looks like the Sansa might be "safe" (similar to how iPods are) in which case it won't be as bad as it could be.
20:08:34 Nick jd_ is now known as jd_away (n=jd@wikipedia/Meanos)
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20:16:35Bagdertry the newest mi4code.c now
20:16:53Bagdernow deals with the sansa ones
20:17:12Paul_The_NerdIt decodes the Sansa MI4s?
20:19:56 Quit lee-qid (Connection timed out)
20:20:13Bagdertime to try to modify a firmware and upgrade to one
20:21:31Paul_The_NerdDo you think the Recovery mode is a safe haven in case something goes wrong?
20:21:38BagderI do
20:21:51Paul_The_NerdIt does seem likely.
20:22:03Genre9mp3What's this Recovery mode?
20:22:37Paul_The_NerdThe Sansas can be booted into a "Recovery Mode" which offers USB connectivity with access to 16mb of space. You can upload a bootloader rom and mi4 file and it'll automatically update to them when you unplug USB.
20:22:39sharpea mode in which you can recover it.
20:22:53Paul_The_NerdAlso if there's a sansa.fmt file it will reformat the disk, it seems.
20:23:24sharpeso i suppose then for the sansas, the bootloader has a limit of around 16mb?
20:24:17Paul_The_NerdDunno. That's just how much the "disk" you have access to with recovery mode is.
20:24:25sharpeI see.
20:24:47Paul_The_NerdI wonder if it's a ramdrive. Then it'd be safe even if the disk formatting is broken.
20:25:12sharpemaybe it's on a flash chip?
20:25:35Paul_The_NerdIt's possible that it's that as well.
20:27:09peturmaybe they reserved some space in the prog flash to create a small disk (have done that myself for a project already)
20:27:27peturbut 16mb is a bit big
20:27:50sharpeas some say, "the bigger, the better..." heh...
20:28:03 Quit tcmjr ()
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20:28:13Paul_The_NerdIt could as well simply be restricting your access to a limited portion of the normal "disk"
20:28:25oboanyone here with a 5g?
20:28:31sharpeare they flash-based or hdd-based?
20:28:34sharpeobo: aye.
20:29:19obosharpe: could you test something? Could you compile a new bootloader, and write it as normal?
20:29:50Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: Flash based.
20:29:58obosharpe: hangs here, and I've got no idea why... had to go back to one I built back in March
20:30:11sharpeobo: want me to update cvs?
20:30:15Paul_The_NerdWith an in-firmware option to switch from MTP to UMS (though they call it MSC)
20:30:29sharpeerph. get the latest cvs ?
20:30:47Paul_The_NerdYou "can't see" files transferred as MTP while in UMS mode (they're marked hidden. *gasp*)
20:30:48obosharpe: yup
20:33:39sharpeobo: works fine here
20:34:10obosharpe: okay, thanks
20:34:44sharpetime to rebuild the customizable bootloader... woo!
20:35:22Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: nice (about the recovery mode)
20:35:40*Genre9mp3 opens Sansa's manula to find more info
20:36:04Paul_The_NerdI'd probably like the Sansa itself quite a bit if I'd never used Rockbox.
20:36:37Genre9mp3Hope to use it with Rockbox soon, then
20:36:45 Quit _Veseliq_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:37:22sharpeif the recovery mode did write to the 'disk,' then couldn't we find that out if (assuming the uploaded files weren't overwritten for some reason) scan the disk for their remains?
20:37:31Paul_The_NerdThat being said, it's video capabilities are better than the very vocal complainer led me to believe.
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20:38:48Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: To tell you the truth, though, if iAudio 6 had the same chances for Rockbox as the Sansa has, I would still go for it!
20:38:58Paul_The_NerdYes, yes, I know. :-P
20:39:25Paul_The_NerdI honestly don't like touch-sensitive controls like the slider, or the wheel on the iPod.
20:39:28 Quit lds_ (Remote closed the connection)
20:39:35Paul_The_NerdI don't know if it's just me, but half the time they just cannot pick me up.
20:39:54 Join lds_ [0] (
20:40:02Genre9mp3But anyway, atm what I'm trying to find is an Ondio! :P
20:41:29Genre9mp3That's right....Rockbox is the No.1 feature ;)
20:43:41Paul_The_NerdI will say the Sansa has the second least audible hiss of all my players.
20:44:00TeaSeaPaul_The_Nerd: Interesting.
20:44:16TeaSeajooc, what's the progress on rockbox support on the Sansa? I haven't looked into it yet.
20:44:25TeaSeaOr are you not doing that?
20:44:30TeaSeaAnd I totally missed the thing :D
20:44:32Genre9mp3Which player is the first on that?
20:44:32Paul_The_NerdAnd in fact, it's only really audible if there's no sound at all.
20:44:48sharpewooho for low decibel sounds
20:44:54Paul_The_NerdThe Archos JBR has less hiss than even the Sansa.
20:44:58Paul_The_NerdBut you can hear the HD spin up.
20:45:47Genre9mp3Where this hiss come from? Which part of the hw?
20:45:52RedBrevaspiorf: I have just added your theme to along with the original ipod_Vision theme... Looks good ;-)
20:45:54Paul_The_NerdThen comes the iPod Nano in third, with a noticeable hiss that I hear if I turn my music below about -60 -55 or so. On the iRivers (h120 and iFP-799) I hear it below about -45 or so.
20:46:26sharpeon a flash based 256mb mp3 player i had (before it fell prey to the washing machine), i could hear when the lcd's backlight was on even with music playing...
20:46:46spiorfRedBreva, :)
20:47:58Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: You can hear the LED that lights up the scrollwheel on the Sansa.
20:48:20sharpehmm... fun.
20:48:36Paul_The_NerdThe volume also doesn't go low enough for my tastes.
20:49:12sharpei suppose it's a good thing when i can listen to my ipod at -57db...
20:49:31Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: Someone on MR reported that he hadn't no hiss at all (with his H340) by using an external amp (Ray Samuels hornet) but of course I'm not mad enough to pay $350 just for that (and also have another box to carry with)
20:49:39Paul_The_NerdOn my Nano one night, I kept lowering it and lowering it, and suddenly realized I was at -70
20:50:00Genre9mp3I mean hadn't any hiss
20:50:22Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: Yeah, an external amp can help with that alot. Also, not having low impedance phones with a high SPL will apparently help alot too, I've heard. ;)
20:50:30sharpewhenever i lend my ipod for people to listen to, they always end up turning it to around, -10, someone had it at 6 once...
20:51:01obodid their ears start to bleed?
20:51:15Paul_The_NerdMan, at +6 I can hear mine from across the room.
20:51:28sharpei'm afraid they didn't obo.
20:51:38sharpePaul_The_Nerd: exactly
20:51:48Genre9mp3+6 dB ????
20:52:14Genre9mp3Why isn't 0 dB the higher volume on iPods?
20:52:22Paul_The_NerdBecause they go higher than that?
20:52:25sharpebecause they can go higheR?
20:52:34 Join leftright [0] (
20:52:51leftrighthardeep around
20:53:01sharpe... Who wants to know?
20:53:12leftrightwho're you
20:53:20spiorfwhat battery capacity i have to set on the ipod nano?
20:53:29Genre9mp3Isn't "0 dB" the max a device can give in Rockbox volume scale?
20:53:36Paul_The_Nerdspiorf: You can't set it to the right one yet.
20:53:51spiorf1300 is the min
20:53:51Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: No, 0dB means the device isn't modifying the gain level. It's outputting at line level.
20:53:57sharpespiorf: nothing really, it's just for guestimation, they're not really good for the ipods yet...
20:53:58Paul_The_Nerdspiorf: Yes, I know. And the Nano is 340.
20:54:22Genre9mp3So iPods can boost digitally the volume?
20:54:23 Part leftright
20:54:39Paul_The_NerdI believe that's analog.
20:54:57Paul_The_NerdDigital would be the preamp in replaygain.
20:55:14Genre9mp3Or Bass/Treble options in Rockbox?
20:55:15RedBrevaI see RobbyWilliams is back selling chemical products on the Wiki...!
20:55:24sharperobin williams?!
20:55:43Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: What do you mean about Bass/Treble?
20:56:02Genre9mp3Bass/Treble options boost digitally the sound, right?
20:56:11sharpeRedBreva: yes, yes, it would seem so... there's a large market for phentermine to rockbox users...
20:56:33Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: I'm not really certain how they're handled, honestly.
20:57:39RedBrevaWell, at least it's educational, I had to go and look up what it was for... ;-)
20:57:54sharpeyou learn something new every day.
20:58:00Genre9mp3Well, if the hw on irivers is incapable of boosting the volume (analog way) then it must be digitally boosted with Bass/Treble options
20:58:05 Join XavierGr [0] (
20:58:06Genre9mp3just like the EQ
20:58:12XavierGrHello all!
20:58:14Genre9mp3Oh, hi XavierGR! :)
20:58:16XavierGrBad day
20:58:26Genre9mp3why's that?
20:58:30sharpehello Xavier
20:58:34XavierGrMy car broke out in the middle of the highway
20:58:53sharpelike, in the middle, or off to the side?
20:59:06Genre9mp3Broke out?
20:59:08XavierGrwell obviously I managed to push it on the side
20:59:17sharpeof course
20:59:19XavierGrI left it there for the night
20:59:26RedBrevaBroke down ;-)
20:59:37Genre9mp3XavierGr: Exactly where did this happen?
20:59:40XavierGrbroke out = it will refuse to turn on
20:59:42sharpeon the highway!
20:59:46XavierGrthe ignition works
20:59:52 Join akaidiota [0] (
21:00:02XavierGrthe battery works but it won't just turn on
21:00:16XavierGr(it has gas too)
21:00:30XavierGrsharpe it is not a highway per se
21:00:44XavierGrit is a national road
21:00:58XavierGrI left it on the safety lane with a warning triangle
21:01:07sharpehmm... my friend's vehicle broke down just last... monday... or was it sunday...
21:01:18XavierGrI will get there tomorrow with a technician to see what's happening
21:02:01sharpewell, i'll be going, later everyone.
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21:05:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:52:38MassaDoes anybody knew what the message "beep, no dir to copy WPS from!" at the end of a build means?
21:54:39dionoeait means that you didn't checkout the WPS directory from cvs
21:55:02MassaHuh? It is of course there...
21:56:14MassaI compiled a version for iRiver H300 at Linux
21:56:23 Quit akaidiota (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:56:52Massadionoea, is there an additional WPS directory besides the directory named "wps" to check out?
21:57:50dionoeawell you should have a wps directory at the same level as firmware / apps / uisimulator / tools /...
21:58:38 Join damaki__ [0] (
21:58:53MassaI have that and it contains a lot of .wps and other files.
22:02:09dionoeawell it must be something else then ...
22:02:59 Quit Rondom ("Ex-Chat")
22:03:32 Join Rondom [0] (
22:06:01MassaO.K. I found the problem - it's no failure, just a message for all WPS where no subdirectory beneath wps exists (e.g. iCatcher)...
22:06:37 Join jd_ [0] (n=jd@wikipedia/Meanos)
22:06:38MassaHmm, why didn't I ever notice that when compiling with cygwin/Windows? Strange!
22:07:17 Quit jd_ (Remote closed the connection)
22:08:37 Join jd_ [0] (n=jd@wikipedia/Meanos)
22:09:47MassaIf anybody cares: it seems that a "cvs update" at Linux only updates existing files while an "update" made with TortoiseCVS also creates new subdirectories and files...
22:11:21 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
22:12:54dionoeacvs up -dP
22:13:45Massadionoea, thanks - if I correctly remember there is a ~/.cvsrc where I can put that options to make them default???!
22:13:59dionoeai don't have a clue :)
22:14:16 Quit damaki_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:19:23Massait seems to work - so I assume I was correct :-)
22:19:34MassaBye - I have to go now!
22:19:56 Quit Massa ()
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22:40:27sharpeit is very hard to partition a usb drive in windows... :)
22:40:47Bagdermi4code.c actually works on my sansa mi4 image
22:40:51sharpeshort of, having only one partition.
22:41:23 Join TCK [0] (
22:42:45sharpedisk management won't even let me delete a removable drive's partition... woo...
22:42:55Bagderc:\SreekanthS\FDK_STUB\SA_5_51_169_br\buildroot\Sahara\ppos\src\MediaServices\DRM\Janus\portKit-10.05\crypto\bignum\kmuladd.c line 7
22:43:07Bagder(string from the firmware image!)
22:43:40sharpei don't even think i have any folders that deep...
22:44:10merbananBagder: what did you do to make it work ?
22:44:27Bagdertry the latest code on my page
22:44:51Bagderit "just works"
22:45:20Bagderdecryption magic, yes ;-)
22:46:22sharpe... digital etch-a-sketch... plug it into your tv...
22:46:40BagderI found what crypt lib they use
22:46:51sharpei'm guessing that's a good thing.
22:47:03sharpewas it also a string in the firmware image? :)
22:47:03Bagderthat lists the same error strings as sansa does internally
22:47:04preglowplease say it's gpl :>
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22:48:04sharpe"the library is free for all purposes without any express guarantee it works."
22:48:35Bagderit even spells it out
22:49:13sharpeit's in the public domain :-D
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22:52:06BagderRTXC Kernel %08X %5d %5d %5d
22:52:30BagderRTXC seems to be a RTOS
22:52:35sharpejust a shot in the dark, fron the firmware? :)
22:52:45Bagder"RTXC? real time operating systems have been supporting embedded applications for more than 20 years. "
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22:54:49linuxstb_The firmware also includes expat - sadly that's under the MIT license...
22:55:10sharpewhat embedded systems were there in 1986?
22:55:16linuxstb_"RTXC v3.2fpp for ARM and Thumb - ARM ADS 1.0 Jul-08-00 Key: 24104"
22:55:31preglowso they use a proper compiler too
22:55:48merbananBagder: have you tried flashing a corrupt image to the player?
22:55:55Bagdernot yet
22:56:18BagderI was gonna try to just alter some text and flash that too see that this whole process works
22:56:33sharpeno! then the corrrupt image would make the player corrupt and evil!
22:57:13 Quit bam_ (Remote closed the connection)
22:58:06linuxstb_There are a few references to PP5022 and PP5020 - so maybe that means it's register compatible with those. Meaning the existing ipod code will work.
22:58:27Bagderyes, it does seem promising
22:58:45sharpewhy, why does all partitioning software seem to need to be run under dos...?
22:58:47linuxstb_The ATA driver for example should just work, as well as i2c and i2s.
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22:59:04sharpethat'd save a lot of time..
22:59:33 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
22:59:57Bagderthose h10 guys should have it even easier
23:00:13linuxstb_Yep, the port's almost done for them...
23:00:36linuxstb_If there was a "them" working on it.
23:00:43Bagderyeah :-/
23:01:38sharpewell... i'm off to see if i can repartition my usb drive in... dos...
23:02:03 Quit akaidiota (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:02:08BagderUSB for dos sound like... interesting
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23:02:18midkaysharpe, how would you do that?
23:02:18 Quit drippydonut ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox]")
23:02:23sharpethere are drivers for it, fortunately...
23:03:08sharpemidkay: very carefully?
23:03:25 Join bam_ [0] (
23:03:28midkaysurely, but via what tool?
23:03:37sharpethe partitioning?
23:03:56midkayof course.
23:05:16sharpeoh, i'm going to try something aptly named, "Super FDISK" which apparently supports partitioning, then "Ranish's Partition Manager" then anything else i can find...
23:05:25Bagderuh MPV is news to me
23:05:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:05:52Bagdersansa has strings for this
23:05:53midkayhave some fun, then!
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23:10:42sharpeah, you know what, maybe i'll just leave the partitioning to some time later... i don't feel like doing that now...
23:10:59preglowpartioning under dos?
23:11:09preglowwhy not just use some linux live cd?
23:11:30sharpebecause i already had a floppy in my drive. :)
23:12:07sharpei actually thought about doing that, but i don't know why i didn't.
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23:16:37sharpeoh well... burning that livecd now.
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23:32:39Bagder e84: e3a00460 mov r0, #1610612736 ; 0x60000000
23:32:40Bagder e88: e5d02000 ldrb r2, [r0]
23:32:40Bagder e8c: e3520055 cmp r2, #85 ; 0x55
23:32:45Bagderthe same check we do
23:32:57Bagderin crt0.S (assembly from sansa)
23:33:18linuxstb_Well, we got it from IPL....
23:33:43 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
23:33:57linuxstb_But yes, that's promising for compatibility between the PP5024 and other PP502x chips.
23:34:29linuxstb_I've noticed a few other familiar addresses as well after a very quick browse at the disassembly.
23:34:39Bagderyes I do too
23:36:04 Quit lodesi (Remote closed the connection)
23:36:29*amiconn wants to know how voltage scaling works on the PP5022 :/
23:36:31 Join lodesi [0] (
23:36:58linuxstb_You now have all those .mi4 files to disassemble...
23:37:20linuxstb_Or Sansa will shock us and give us some info...
23:37:20 Quit pabs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:37:27 Quit damaki_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:39:32preglowlinuxstb_: yes, very probable
23:39:48*linuxstb_ is suffering under the heat
23:39:52Paul_The_NerdWell at least Sansa's actually saying *something*
23:39:53*preglow too
23:40:34preglowPaul_The_Nerd: what, they've said something new?
23:40:42Paul_The_NerdNot that I know of.
23:40:46Paul_The_NerdBut at least they talked to Daniel at all.
23:41:06Paul_The_NerdAt this point I'd be happy with a "Shoo" from PortalPlayer to at least know somebody read it.
23:41:17preglowdon't expect one
23:41:26Bagderthey have it on the wall in their coffee room
23:41:57Bagdermy latest mail to sandisk was sent on june 19th and I've heard nada since
23:42:05preglowi don't get it
23:42:11preglowsend something
23:42:15preglowjust shutting up looks bad
23:42:34preglowbut hardly a surprise, i guess
23:42:40*amiconn wonders what linuxstb is calling heat
23:42:41preglowand at least we got some players
23:42:51amiconn25C in London, just 3 more than here...
23:43:15Genre9mp3maybe they don't actually willing to help in anyway...
23:43:35Paul_The_NerdIt's 30.5 C here, but at least it's cloudy.
23:43:38Genre9mp3Maybe all these was a part of their promotion or something? (just a thought)
23:43:45BagderI don't speak with the president of Sandisk
23:43:51Paul_The_NerdWell it's definitely all part of their promotion.
23:44:15Paul_The_NerdBut their promotion will look a lot better if we can actually support their player _well_
23:44:21Bagderso "they" might be wanting different things depending on who "they" are
23:44:21linuxstb_It's currently 30C here...
23:44:50 Quit akaidiot (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:45:24petur27.5 and falling....
23:45:38peturexpect code when it falls below 25
23:45:42amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: Surely a different time of day (soon midnight here)
23:46:17Genre9mp3What I want to say is, that maybe, all "they" were interested in was a Rockbox-rumor than an actual Rockbox-port
23:46:46peturit came from marketing, so probably it is
23:46:50linuxstb_But surely the negative PR of failing to help a Rockbox port will outweigh anything positive they've had so far...
23:46:52Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: That's true. It'll probably get lower than that tonight here, with the weather the way it is.
23:48:55Paul_The_NerdHonestly, I doubt word will *really* get around as to how much they did or didn't help us.
23:50:02Paul_The_NerdI suspect that once there's a Rockbox port available there will be a big blurb that they post about it on
23:50:44Paul_The_NerdOn a very unrelated note, I hate their "Media converter"
23:51:28preglowi think the news of them offering to support us will spread lots more than the news of them perhaps failing to do so after all is run by Sansa??? [innocent face] :)
23:52:43linuxstb_Paul_The_Nerd: What's the audio quality like? (am I right in thinking you bought an e200?)
23:52:47BagderGenre9mp3: yes
23:53:48Genre9mp3Bagder: hehe... I already knew that... I just pretended that I was surprised!
23:53:50Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb_: I'm no audiophile by any means, but overall there's less background noise than with most of my other players, so I like it quite a bit for that. I don't really know what to look for in actual playback quality though. Nothing stands out to me at least.
23:53:59Genre9mp3I have to work on this more I guess... :)
23:54:43amiconnWHOIS Record For SanDisk, 111 Java Drive, Sunnyvale, CA 94089
23:55:17Paul_The_Nerd111 Java Drive... hehehe
23:56:08 Quit _FireFly_ ("Client exiting")
23:56:46 Quit Kohlrabi (Nick collision from services.)
23:56:56 Join Kohlrabi [0] (
23:56:57Paul_The_NerdThe original firmware's playback is pretty horrible. The "shuffle" is actually true random, so you sometimes get the same song twice in a row, and skipping to the next song takes *ages*.
23:57:06Paul_The_NerdWell by "true" I just mean, random
23:57:23linuxstb_Paul_The_Nerd: I was just curious because the Sansa's PP5024 has the DAC built in.
23:57:28Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: Doesn't even have a "History" or something?
23:57:44Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb_: Well, in my opinion it sounds better than the iPod Nano. Much less hiss.
23:58:17Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: Yeah, if I recall I couldn't go back to a previous song. Previous and Next both essentially do the same thing in shuffle, pick a random song.
23:58:20Bagderin my damaged ears it sounds as fine as my other players ;-)
23:58:28*amiconn remembers Paul_The_Nerd being surprised that the archos has much less hiss than ipod as well
23:58:46Paul_The_NerdNo, I was surprised that I couldn't hear *any* hiss on the Archos.
23:58:57Paul_The_NerdIt wasn't relative to the iPod, so much as relative to anything I own.
23:58:59amiconnIriver and ipod have quite noticeable hiss. For me they're a step back in sound quality

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