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#rockbox log for 2006-07-17

00:00:10linuxstb_I've just tried both 3.4.2 and 3.4.4 and they both worked.
00:00:18S0apand bets on how long my K6III-450 will take to build rockbox w/Cygwin?
00:01:45carinilinuxstb_: Okay, thanks for checking. I'll have to roll back to 3.4.4 then. The wiki page suggests 3.4.6, so that's what I was using.
00:05:03linuxstb_It would be useful if someone else with 3.4.6 could double-check though... amiconn?
00:06:55 Quit Nico_P ()
00:07:14 Join alphakiller [0] (n=bohas@
00:08:21 Quit actionshrimp ("( :: NoNameScript 4.01 :: )")
00:10:00 Quit electus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:11:35 Quit scorche ("Leaving")
00:13:06 Join MarcoPolo [0] (
00:13:54amiconnugh... logf... th edebug feature I almost never use
00:22:37 Quit obo ("bye")
00:22:40PaulJamlinuxstb_: with m68k-elf-gcc 3.4.5 i get the error too.
00:27:51 Join nudelyn2 [0] (
00:28:24sharpegoodday everyone.
00:29:29 Quit XavierGr ("One firmware to rule them all!")
00:31:16 Quit mantono (Client Quit)
00:31:19carinilinuxstb_: Okay, thanks for checking. I'll have to roll back to 3.4.4 then. The wiki page suggests 3.4.6, so that's what I was using.
00:32:52 Join mantono [0] (
00:33:57 Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
00:34:31 Quit JoeBorn (Connection timed out)
00:46:08 Quit nudelyn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:47:30 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:48:27 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC")
00:49:53 Quit mantono (Remote closed the connection)
00:51:19 Join mantono [0] (
00:53:32 Quit PaulJam (".")
00:58:06 Join TCK [0] (
00:58:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:07:48S0aphow do I roll back to m68k-elf-gcc 3.4.4 ?
01:08:20 Quit Kohlrabi ("Quit")
01:09:00linuxstbHow did you install your current version?
01:09:39*amiconn wonders about the odd way of fixing this pb
01:10:11S0apthrough the Cygwin setup.exe
01:11:02S0apdo I need to change view from Current to Previous, and desellect everything _but_ m68k-elf-gcc 3.4.4, so that only that package gets an older version installed?
01:11:31 Join Paprica [0] (
01:13:27 Join Criamos [0] (
01:13:42 Quit ender` (" Engineers think that equations approximate the real world. Scientists think that the real world approximates equations. Ma)
01:13:59linuxstbamiconn: What do you mean?
01:14:39amiconnDowngrading gcc instead of fixing the problem...
01:15:21cariniS0ap: I don't think 3.4.4 is available through Cygwin setup
01:15:48S0apso I should chase it down (assuming I had the same problem) and drop it in myself?
01:16:35 Quit MarcoPolo (Remote closed the connection)
01:16:39linuxstbamiconn: I agree.
01:16:43*amiconn wonders where cygwin's 'cc1.exe' has vanished :/
01:19:50 Quit ^BeN^ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:26:08 Join Amien [0] (
01:26:42Amien..hello .,. is it possible to stop the lines from scrolling? i'm talking about the idtags that will show then mp3 is plsying
01:27:22midkayremove the %s tag before the line inside the WPS.
01:31:12peturno, hrrmpf
01:31:17amiconn"gcc: installation problem, cannot exec 'cc1': No such file or directory"
01:31:46amiconnI already reinstalled the gcc packages, no change...
01:31:59 Join Nico_P [0] (
01:32:58Amienyou sure its %s .. i removed them all .. but still moving
01:36:54cariniamiconn: Is this the gcc package or one of the cross-compilers?
01:36:57 Quit Amien ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:37:06linuxstbamiconn: It probably won't help you, but my Cygwin cc1.exe is here: /lib/gcc/i686-pc-cygwin/3.4.4/cc1.exe and for the cross-compiler here: /opt/arm/libexec/gcc/arm-elf/3.4.4/cc1.exe
01:37:08amiconnNative gcc (cygwin)
01:37:23linuxstb(as you can tell, I haven't used it for a while...)
01:37:46amiconnMy cc1.exe is in the same place, but gcc.exe doesn't find it...
01:38:33cariniDo you have it at /usr/lib/...?
01:39:10linuxstbamiconn: So your gcc.exe is in /bin ?
01:39:29amiconnNo, it's in /usr/bin
01:40:10linuxstbThat's odd then.
01:40:34linuxstbI mean your installation is odd.
01:40:44cariniIt should be in both places
01:41:20carinic:\cygwin is mounted at /, gcc lives in c:\cygwin\bin, but c:\cygwin\bin is also mounted as /usr/bin
01:41:46amiconnNot here
01:42:13cariniamiconn: What does gcc −−print-search-dirs say? It is looking at /usr/lib... or /lib...?
01:43:11 Join psycho_maniac [0] (
01:43:37*petur confirms what carini said, the files are in /bin and /usr/bin here
01:44:14psycho_maniacanybody notice that the battery does not show up on the wps now? or did the code recently change for battery display?
01:44:33amiconnHuh? Now _this_ is odd:
01:44:40amiconn$ which gcc
01:45:18petursame result here
01:45:27amiconnBut if I check C:\cygwin\usr\bin , it's empty windows explorer, but not when doing ls -l /usr/bin
01:45:47peturit is empty here too
01:46:04cariniamiconn: Right. It comes from the cygwin mount table.
01:46:10 Quit Nico_P ()
01:46:18cariniType "mount"
01:46:23pixelmapsycho_maniac: which wps are you talking about?
01:46:50*amiconn wonders why this is, and since when
01:47:08amiconnIirc this used to be different
01:47:53cariniDoes "ls -l /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-cygwin/3.4.4/cc1.exe" show anything?
01:48:03 Quit funky ("leaving")
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01:48:45*amiconn will try the standard method for windows problems - reboot
01:48:48 Part amiconn
01:48:55linuxstbamiconn: Maybe it's just your path - is /usr/bin before /bin?
01:49:59 Nick fatAssKartman is now known as eraHertz (
01:50:27 Nick eraHertz is now known as earHertz (
01:51:05peturhow typical, blame cygwin troubles on windows...
01:51:26sharpewell... in some cases they're true.
01:51:45*linuxstb is happy he never got addicted to Windows.
01:52:08 Join amiconn [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
01:52:14sharpewhat would you consider addicted to windows being?
01:52:34psycho_maniacok redownloaded the wps from the wiki and now its really screwed up. im trying a new new cvs build see if that fixes it
01:52:41 Quit Rondom (Nick collision from services.)
01:52:46linuxstbsharpe: Being reliant on Windows apps. I've never used them, so don't miss them.
01:52:51 Join Rondom_ [0] (
01:53:05sharpelinuxstb: :-D
01:53:11 Quit Rondom_ (Client Quit)
01:53:53sharpebut when windows is your only choice due to hardware and software compatibilities, you're a bit stuck with it. like me.
01:54:56linuxstbamiconn: Any luck?
01:55:00 Quit mikearthur (Connection reset by peer)
01:55:05peturI grew up with it. Tried to switch to linux several times and got hit by unsupported hardware everytime. Just gave up ;)
01:55:17Mikachubuy supported hardware
01:55:30linuxstbI'm too old then... I was using Linux around the time Windows 3.1 was around.
01:55:51*petur remembers using dos 3.2
01:55:55Mikachui switched after reinstalling w2k and wxp 4 times
01:57:45S0apI plan on switching after I get a faster machine. I can't run a decent desktop enviroment on my 450, lord knows I've tried.
01:58:09 Join RaeNye [0] (
01:59:15RaeNyejhmikes: I think something's wrong with the LCD shutdown code. I've just had a almost-brick state.
01:59:24peturI'll probably switch to linux when w2k becomes unsupported by MS, by then I will have bought a new pda that doesn't run CE
02:00:20 Quit dan_a (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:00:26BloodySorcererRaeNye, LCD shutdown on what?
02:00:35RaeNyeAnybody else has experienced excessive backlight flicker on X5?
02:00:41BloodySorcereri haven't
02:00:46Paul_The_NerdWhat is an almost-brick state?
02:00:48BloodySorcereri've got the LCD shutdown patch in
02:00:57 Quit Nibbler (Remote closed the connection)
02:01:00sharpePaul_The_Nerd: like not-yet-dried concrete?
02:01:02RaeNyeMe too. Everything was fine for a few days;
02:01:06cariniamiconn: Does "ls -l /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-cygwin/3.4.4/cc1.exe" show anything?
02:01:23psycho_maniacok just updated to recent cvs build but still no battery display for engeneer2.wps but other themes show the battery. this is on a h120
02:01:54RaeNyetoday I left my DAP for ~15 minutes, paused, so the idle timeout turned it off
02:02:01BloodySorcererthe new builds have done so much for battery life with the OTG chip sleep and the LCD off so far
02:02:07BloodySorcereri'd test but im afraid :o
02:02:18amiconncarini: yes
02:02:35cariniIs the file executable?
02:02:55RaeNyethen when I turned it on again, it went off during the boot process (battery is fully charged, so that's not the problem)
02:02:58 Quit Seed (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:03:01Paul_The_Nerdpsycho_maniac: Is engineer2 supposed to have a battery display?
02:03:05amiconncarini: yes
02:03:50Mikachuwhy 750 instead of 755?
02:04:00psycho_maniacPaul_The_Nerd: yes. ive been using it since it was made
02:04:12RaeNyeand only intermittenly responded by flicking backlight.
02:04:18cariniamiconn: Can you run "/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-cygwin/3.4.4/cc1.exe −−version"?
02:04:21psycho_maniacholy crap ! just a moment
02:04:33 Join ^BeN^ [0] (
02:05:12cariniAnd "gcc −−print-search-dirs" includes /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-cygwin/3.4.4?
02:05:12RaeNyeI tried reset, holding power button, connecting AC/USB, everything (including taking it apart)
02:06:06amiconnhuh? Now it gets even more strange...
02:06:26RaeNyeAfter 30 mins I got the backlight constantly flickering, then after some more bit banging (lit.) I got to the charging screen
02:06:37amiconnI tried compiling a single .c file - this works, while 'make'ing a sim doesn't work...
02:06:57RaeNyeThen I booted OF to discover everything's back except the RTC was reset.
02:07:08psycho_maniacok still dosnt show up
02:07:19pixelmapsycho_maniac: did you check if the bitmaps are in their engineer2 folder?
02:07:28*amiconn scratches head
02:07:43RaeNyeThe OTG chip sleep is great (also CVS...) but I think I'll give up the LCD shutdown thingy.
02:07:53BloodySorcererthat sounds scary.
02:07:54psycho_maniacit should be its in the daly and cvs builds but ill check
02:07:55BloodySorcerervery scary.
02:08:03BloodySorcererhmm, maybe i should give it up too
02:08:11linuxstbamiconn: Did you say you didn't have gcc.exe in /bin/ ?
02:08:14BloodySorcereri just patched it in last night
02:08:16RaeNyeObviously there's something wrong going with RB shutdown on X5
02:08:33BloodySorcererdidnt the LCD patch also do soemthing to shutdown?
02:08:38BloodySorcerer"graceful shutdown" or whatever?
02:08:41RaeNyeThat not my worst brick exprience with the X5, BTW
02:09:05psycho_maniacpixlma: yes they are in the wps engineer2 folder
02:09:14RaeNyethe patch performs LCD off sequence on backlight off and on device shutdown
02:09:16amiconn01.39.10 # <linuxstb> amiconn: So your gcc.exe is in /bin ?
02:09:17amiconn01.39.29 # <amiconn> No, it's in /usr/bin
02:09:56linuxstbI know you said that, but it's not in /bin as well? (following what carini said about cygwin mounting them both in the same place)
02:10:35 Join webguest83 [0] (
02:11:04Paul_The_Nerdpsycho_maniac: And you've checked the wps file itself to make sure that somehow it didn't get changed? Like, opened it up in a text editor and make sure it's loading the right .bmps and everything?
02:11:10amiconnlinuxstb: Ah, yes
02:11:22RaeNyejhmikes said himself that the backlight flickers for some unknown reason on shutdown (and I've got intermittent white-screens) so this might not be related to the LCD patch directly, but I've had it :(
02:11:52RaeNyeBTW, do you have a remote for the X5?
02:12:10linuxstbamiconn: In which case, do both /usr/bin/gcc.exe and /bin/gcc.exe work from the command-line? My only thought is that maybe one works, and one doesn't.
02:12:36BloodySorcererrae: nope
02:12:56amiconnBoth do work...
02:13:00Paul_The_Nerdpsycho_maniac: And your build is completely unpatched?
02:13:13RaeNyeI want someone to test my remote LCD code, as I don't have one as well
02:13:24 Quit petur ("here today, gone tomorrow")
02:13:25 Quit Paprica (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:13:53Paul_The_Nerdpsycho_maniac: So basically, only that one WPS doesn't show in-wps battery icons, and this just happened as of when?
02:13:58psycho_maniacim going to try an older build see if same thing happens
02:14:14amiconnThat is, both do work if I call them manually for a single C file
02:14:24BloodySorcereri wonder what it'd take to get doom to work properly on the X5 port
02:14:30Mikachuwhat errors do you get from make?
02:14:32BloodySorcereras it does work in screwed up ways
02:14:32linuxstbamiconn: Yes, that's what I was wondering.
02:15:27psycho_maniacPaul_The_Nerd: just as of today. i tried a cvs build of yesterday or 2 days ago then tried one just a few mins ago. it still dosnt show up. ok now get this...............
02:15:53RaeNyebs: it worked once
02:16:10BloodySorcererif you load metronome then doom and you have doom.rock from pre-april 17 (i do) it works
02:16:19BloodySorcererit just doesn't function in any *normal* way
02:16:30 Quit ^BeN^ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:16:58RaeNyeI prefer to see more 'light' games, such as sudoku, crosswords, nonograms, etc.
02:17:23RaeNyeDoom ought to get a fullscreen :)
02:17:30BloodySorcererdoom is murder on the thumb and joystick
02:17:39BloodySorcererand generally really awkward :)
02:17:53psycho_maniacits been sitting here playing songs for awhile now. i didnt show the battery for awhile now the battery is showing. i restarted it and the battery disappeared now it reappeared and now disappeared again. what is this patch? Patch #5630 by Andreas Mattsson - Minimize WPS subline swap time shift?
02:17:59RaeNyebut you can brag about having doom at your pocket ;)
02:18:17BloodySorcereronly reason i ever play it :)
02:18:22linuxstbBloodySorcerer: My guess would be that it's related to the user timer in some way. Metronome uses it, and so does Doom. Not many (if any) other plugins do.
02:18:25Paul_The_Nerdpsycho_maniac: That patch has nothing to do with your problem. It has to do with alternating sublines in WPS
02:18:38Paul_The_Nerdpsycho_maniac: Which battery icon was showing when it was showing?
02:18:45RaeNyeactually I get more appreciation by showing bubbles :-)
02:19:13BloodySorcererschool is full of ipod tools anyways
02:19:19BloodySorcereractually, most everybody i know is an ipod tool...
02:19:56RaeNyecouldn't live with ID3-only browsing
02:20:05psycho_maniacPaul_The_Nerd: full battery. i put charger in and it showed 3/4 bars with flashing plugin thing (supposed to happen) then went to folder screen and back to wps and now battery disappeared again
02:20:07BloodySorcereri loathe ID3 browsing
02:20:11BloodySorcerermakes everything so messy
02:21:10RaeNyeTrue. Either you sell your soul for having perfect tags or you don't find 80% of your songs
02:21:30Paul_The_Nerdpsycho_maniac: My question is: Is it showing the 3/4, but not the full?
02:21:38BloodySorcererand it makes mixed browsing impossible
02:21:44BloodySorcererlike some stuff by artist but other by genre or album
02:21:53BloodySorcerer'cause classical music should never be sorted by artist.
02:22:03psycho_maniacPaul_The_Nerd: no it is showing 3 out of the 4 bars for battery charge sorry for confusion
02:22:16linuxstbBloodySorcerer: If you look in plugins/doom/i_timer.c, you'll see the code using the user timer. It's not used in the UI Simulator, so you could test by adding the line "#define SIMULATOR" near the top of i_timer.c (after all the other .h files have been included), and that will use the alternative code.
02:22:19RaeNyeI think the RB way (tagcache) actually gets it OK
02:22:36Paul_The_Nerdpsycho_maniac: You missed my meaning. You said sometimes the icon shows in WPS and sometimes it doesn't. Is it possible that it won't show the full battery icon, but will the 3/4?
02:23:18RaeNyemaybe it's time I learn to use logf(). Any one-line advices?
02:23:22psycho_maniacit was showing the 4 bars till i put in the charger then it showed 3
02:23:35Paul_The_NerdIn the wps?
02:23:58Paul_The_NerdBut when the charger's in, it should show a charging icon.
02:24:09BloodySorcererpatch -R removes a patch, right?
02:24:11Paul_The_NerdIt sounds like the bitmaps are wrong, or misnamed.
02:24:28RaeNyeremoves, as in, apply the backward patch
02:24:31psycho_maniacPaul_The_Nerd: ok i tried the rockbox-h120-20060616 build and now it shows 4 bars and is showing al the time
02:25:36 Quit webguest83 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
02:25:57 Join webguest83 [0] (
02:25:59Paul_The_Nerdpsycho_maniac: The question is: when you installed the old build, did you overwrite the WPS directory or not?
02:27:34RaeNyemaybe it's time I learn to use logf(). Any two-line advices?
02:28:51 Join ^BeN^ [0] (
02:29:51 Quit psycho_maniac ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
02:30:24RaeNyemaybe it's not the time I learn to use logf().
02:30:56*RaeNye snaps his finger
02:30:58 Quit RaeNye ("CGI:IRC 0.5.7 (2005/06/19)")
02:31:42*linuxstb goes to sleep. Goodnight all.
02:34:38 Join JdGordon [0] (
02:37:26 Join psycho_maniac [0] (
02:40:31psycho_maniacsorry got disconnected
02:40:53Paul_The_Nerdpsycho_maniac: The question is: when you installed the old build, did you overwrite the WPS directory or not?
02:42:08 Join buzzard [0] (
02:42:13buzzardhi guys
02:42:15psycho_maniacPaul_The_Nerd: yes. everything
02:42:19buzzardi have a question
02:42:27buzzardwhere do i place a db file
02:42:29 Part carini
02:43:09buzzardi have a thumbs bd file from the halo theme and i don't know where to place it
02:43:17Paul_The_Nerdpsycho_maniac: Which means we don't know if it was the wps itself that was the problem, or the build, since you're using different versions of both.
02:43:18 Quit ^BeN^ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:43:42buzzardwell i put the julius build on my ipod
02:43:55buzzardbecasue thats the only build you can use to put this teme in
02:44:14psycho_maniacwell i tried the wps itself from the wiki and that realy screwed it up . shall i try another build? then when i get to the most recent one that still works extract that wps to the new build?
02:45:22buzzardok this is the thing i can see the actull halo wps but when i play music the screen looks wierd like the theme is not complete
02:45:36buzzardso i don't know why this is
02:45:38Paul_The_Nerdpsycho_maniac: Well, the thing is, as you've said the problem only happens with that one WPS, so try to make another WPS that shows similar problems maybe, so you can figure out what exactly is the part of it that triggers the problem. Or start tinkering with the not-working one.
02:46:09Paul_The_Nerdbuzzard: Ask questions about jbuild on the thread for it.
02:46:54buzzardi figure there are people tha could help me here since i go with all my problems here and they get solved in less then a min
02:47:15buzzardand i have had other wps files on my ipod
02:47:19buzzardthey all work great
02:47:27Paul_The_NerdSo ask in the thread you got the halo wps from then.
02:47:34psycho_maniacok ill try but im really horrible at wps's well very very rusty. havnt done one since i found one i really liked
02:47:48Paul_The_NerdThe thing is, both files you are asking about are files that are not provided by us, so it's more likely the creators will have a better idea what causes your problems.
02:48:03Paul_The_Nerdpsycho_maniac: Well the thing is, it's really hard to figure out what's wrong without more information.
02:48:21buzzardi can tell you where i put each file
02:48:38buzzardthen mabe you will see
02:48:41Paul_The_Nerdbuzzard: I said, ask about it in the threads.
02:48:55buzzardpsyco wanted to help
02:49:08Paul_The_Nerdbuzzard: He was talking to me, about his own problems.
02:49:17buzzardi c
02:49:20buzzardok see ya
02:49:25 Quit buzzard ("CGI:IRC")
02:51:47 Quit lukaswayne9 ("Ex-Chat")
02:53:23psycho_maniaci installed the new cvs build without overwritting the wps folder and anything in there and it still does it
02:55:19Paul_The_NerdBut the engineer one is the only WPS that has this problem, at all?
02:56:43sharpewhat's the problem with the wps again?
02:56:45psycho_maniacim checking
02:57:37Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: It sounds like it's showing the wrong bitmaps in a conditional. Or, just not showing them. Not really sure which yet.
02:57:58pixelmabtw: the engineer2 wps problem could be related to the subline patch... the battery level info is animated by using sublines (but I don't know)
02:57:58 Quit webguest83 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
02:58:06Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: And with the same wps and folder, a slightly older build shows it properly, so it's not an issue with the WPS itself, it seems.
02:58:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:58:52psycho_maniacPaul_The_Nerd: the other wps show the battery at 4 bars
03:00:17pixelmawhat keeps me wondering about this code: it uses time settings for the sublines that I thought would be impossible: 0.25 (I thought it can be set in tenth of seconds only)
03:00:23Paul_The_NerdAh, didn't realize engineer used the sublines stuff.
03:00:48psycho_maniacso that patch i was asking about could the the issue?
03:01:37Paul_The_NerdOr it could be the .25
03:01:48Paul_The_NerdAs sublines *are* supposed to only be tenths of a second smallest.
03:01:58Paul_The_NerdOr it could be a mix of the two.
03:02:09sharpeit may be just ignoring the '5'.
03:02:35Paul_The_NerdI'd change the .wps to .2 or .3, and see if it fixes the issue it's having, then check the code to see how it handles invalid values.
03:05:28psycho_maniacso change this %ac%t0.25%?bl<|%xdJ|%xdK|%xdL|%xdM>;%ac%t0.25%?bl<%xdI||%xdK|%xdL|%xdM>;%ac%t0.25%?bl<||%xdK|%xdL|%xdM>> to just .2? or .3?
03:07:05Paul_The_NerdTry that, yes.
03:07:10Paul_The_NerdThen re-load the WPS
03:07:42 Join scorche [0] (
03:12:49 Part jd_
03:13:36psycho_maniacstill dont work
03:15:12 Join lukaswayne9 [0] (
03:16:11psycho_maniacshould i contact the wps creator?
03:16:21Paul_The_NerdIt sounds more like a bug in the patch.
03:16:55pixelmapsycho_maniac: have you tried iCatcher - it uses that subline animation too?
03:17:40 Quit Poka64 ("back tomorrow")
03:18:01psycho_maniaci am trying it right now and shows 4 bars for battery
03:18:12psycho_maniacok 3 bars now
03:24:18 Quit mantono (Remote closed the connection)
03:25:06pixelmabut then there's a difference in the code of the two: engineer2 has subline definitions inside conditionals, iCatcher has not...
03:26:55pixelma...I'm not a coder I can't tell if this has an influence or can be related to the patch
03:29:02psycho_maniacneither can i
03:29:34Paul_The_NerdWell, you can try moving the subline definitions and see what happens.
03:33:46 Join Pyromancer [0] (
03:34:33psycho_maniacim suprised nobody else has noticed this
03:36:11Paul_The_NerdWell maybe not many people use Engineer2
03:36:17Paul_The_NerdAnd it is a fairly recent bug.
03:36:34psycho_maniaccould be.
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04:20:29 Quit psycho_maniac ("CGI:IRC")
04:34:00fungameHello all. I am trying to set up rock box and I have a quick question. When using an HFS formatted iPod, can you still use disk dump to backup the firmware? (When I format my iPod on my Mac, iTunes picks it up fine, but it only has one partition). Is it even strictly necessary to back it up (isn't the firmware also part of the iPod updater?)
04:34:59fungameI meant when I format it using FAT32 using my Mac, theres only one partition.
04:37:10fungamenever mind :-)
04:37:21*fungame will try the FAT32 images.
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04:43:47 Join Juxt [0] (
04:45:14Juxti dont see any mention of the gigabeat S - anyone know if this model will be supported by the port that in dev for the F and X models ?
04:47:04Paul_The_NerdI really don't hear much about the gigabeat port around here. I think a lot of the work takes place somewhere else.
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04:49:51Juxti heard there was really only one guy who was working on it...
04:50:51Paul_The_NerdI'm not really sure
04:51:00Juxti am having a tough time deciding which player to get... leaning towards the cowon x5 at the moment but only because it doesn't look like there will be support for the giga S ....
04:51:24Paul_The_NerdIf you want to be certain of Rockbox support, you *really* should get one that already plays music.
04:51:29Juxtis there a general consensus around he as to which hardware gets the most out of roxbox ?
04:51:33Paul_The_NerdSometimes ports die off in a halfway state anyway.
04:51:59Juxtyeah... that is what is shying me away from the gigabeat line
04:52:24Paul_The_NerdI personally have a soft spot for the H100 series of iRiver players. As for sound quality, the Archoses are actually remarkable. As for what gets the most, I don't really know what to say. I don't know how you mean it.
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04:52:40Juxtthat and talk about the zune is making me think i should wait 6 more monhts alltogether
04:53:19Juxtis the H series the one with the horizontal single slide bar
04:53:33scorchethose are the H10s
04:53:57scorchenot yet ported
04:54:24Juxtmy biggest thing is capacity - ahs to be 60gb, second is quality recording and 3rd/2nd part 2 is suppor for flac/ogg
04:54:43Paul_The_NerdWell, flac/ogg comes with Rockbox basically, except on Archos.
04:54:56scorchei would go with the H100 series then
04:54:57Paul_The_NerdAs for 60gb, you're stuck with the X5 or iPod for Rockboxable devices.
04:55:06Paul_The_NerdUnless you feel like putting in a new HD in the H100
04:55:25Juxtcan the h record ?
04:55:36Paul_The_NerdDigital and Analog
04:55:52Juxti will have to check it out
04:56:09scott666_wasnt the H120 too small to fit a bigger drive?
04:56:13Paul_The_NerdThe h100 series goes up to 40gb.
04:56:29 Nick scott666_ is now known as scott666 (
04:56:32Paul_The_NerdThe h120 can fit any single platter (up to 30 right now, 40 soon) the H140 any dual platter (60 now, 80 soon) 1.8" drives
04:56:54scott666that sounds right
04:57:35Juxtdamn... laptop battery is dying - i might dissapear suddenly :)
04:58:00goffagoing to ask a stupid question as a prayer...
04:58:09scorcheit sounds right because it is =P
04:58:10earHertzlaptops really ought to have hand-cranks
04:58:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:58:29goffais it possible that low battery would cause audio to not to come out of the headphone jack on an h140?
04:59:14Paul_The_NerdDoes the backlight still come on when you move the stick?
04:59:54goffai'm thinking the headphone jack somehow got fried
05:00:27goffalast night i let it run until the battery died...
05:00:41goffahooked it up to my car with car adapter.. played fine..
05:01:18goffashut it off.. went inside for an hour.. started the car... turned on the player.. wouldn't boot first few times.. so i let it charge for 15 mins or so
05:01:24goffaturned it back on.. it came on.. but no audio
05:01:40Juxthmm no cnet review for the 100 series ?
05:01:41goffaso i'm thinking its screwed
05:02:01goffacnet reviews suck anyway
05:02:14*scorche notices formatting inconsistencies in the wiki
05:02:17Juxtnevermind i found it
05:02:17*scorche fixes
05:02:28Juxtyes goffa i agree but it is a decent starting poiny
05:02:35goffai'm probably going to have to rma.. unless the rockbox crew comes out with a firmware to fix physical probs with the player :)
05:04:09goffacnet is a so so starting point.. but they tend to take moot points as massive flaws... :)
05:04:38goffai'll give you a testimonial that the h140 is a good player...
05:05:06goffaoh.. and here you go
05:05:53scott666i considered getting an H140/340, but it turned out that it was more expensive than a 60GB ipod, and you can pretty much only buy them used
05:06:08scorchePaul_The_Nerd: do you think that it would make ( ) more readable, if it was centered in the chart?
05:06:36 Quit Sinbios (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:06:59Paul_The_NerdCentered in the chart?
05:07:22scorcheif all of the text in the chart was centered instead of left-aligned
05:07:22goffaactually.. my h140 was $190
05:07:25earHertzgah, cbnet's pages are nearly unusable
05:07:47scott666when was that?
05:07:52Paul_The_Nerdscorche: I like left aligned, personally. But I don't know how others may feel
05:08:00goffa3 months ago
05:08:02goffaor so
05:08:14goffabut you can still get them on ebay for about that
05:08:15scott666i looked...i think about a year ago
05:08:16goffajust at $200
05:08:20scott666maybe im just crazy
05:08:26goffa340 is more expensive
05:08:31scott666that might be it
05:08:44scott666im happy with my 60GB ipod anyway
05:08:49goffa140 doesn't have a color screen
05:08:52earHertzdon't center it, but do put some paddin gon it
05:08:56scorchePaul_The_Nerd: sometimes the borders make things a little harder to read...but i will wait for more input...prolly just fix the ones that are right-aligned and the capitalization in it for now
05:08:58goffabut then i think a 2x2 video is pointless :)
05:09:16goffai do have an x5l though too
05:09:37earHertze partially support gminis now????
05:09:40goffasweet revered horton heat in dts
05:09:41scott666those 112x64 videos are where it was it
05:10:03Paul_The_Nerdscorche: Maybe a couple spaces of indent?
05:10:05scorcheearHertz: as far as i know, you can only align cannot add padding
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05:10:17scorchePaul_The_Nerd: see above
05:10:28earHertzscorche: just use html instead of wiki markup
05:10:50scorcheoh yeah...
05:11:38earHertzscorche: and change ipod to usuable from partial
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05:13:00scorcheearHertz: there are only 2 things (for the moment) that i can be...partial, and yes (supported
05:13:14earHertzthat's misleading
05:13:29earHertzI interpret partial as "not really working" and I figure others will too
05:13:40scorchewell, we could change it to partial, usable, and supported
05:13:54scorchealthough what defines usable?...sound?
05:14:08Paul_The_NerdThe ability to get through a playlist.
05:14:12earHertzYeah, basically, indicate that a non-dev cabnn find rockbox usable, ok enough to use
05:14:16Paul_The_NerdI would not call the 4G usable right now.
05:14:32earHertzwhat doesn't the 4g do?
05:14:34scorchePaul_The_Nerd: any others?
05:14:57Paul_The_NerdearHertz: It doesn't not freeze. Specifically, if you don't set the cpu to boosted, there's a fairly high chance it'll randomly lock up on you.
05:15:11earHertzok, that's a show stopper
05:15:16scott666the 5G is pretty stable though
05:15:31scott666definitely usable
05:15:40earHertzyeah, the 5g is fine. I mean, I use it to play music. doe sit have problems, sure, but you can use it
05:15:58Paul_The_Nerd5G, Nano, and Mini I think are fine. As well as *maybe* the Photo. I'm not sure if it's just the grayscale 4G, or both, these days.
05:16:02scott666my biggest problem is the inabilty to play music and games at the same time
05:16:07scott666except for sudoku
05:16:23earHertzscott666: that's not really a problem in my mind. games are extras
05:16:30scorchewhat about the gmini 120 status...partial i am guessing?
05:17:07scott666well its a symptom of unoptimized code. ive gotten it to skip from scrolling through menus too fast
05:17:30Paul_The_Nerdscorche: Deceased...
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05:17:47scorcheheh...partial it is
05:17:57scorcheor partial (stalled)
05:18:10earHertzscott666: my list patch will help that, partially
05:18:19earHertzand my lcd patch too
05:18:48scott666good to know
05:19:08earHertzmy othe rlist patch would help too, but I haven't released it
05:19:25scott666i didnt get very far into rolling my own rockbox
05:19:30earHertzas would my memcpy patch, also unreleased
05:19:32scott666just got the dev environment set up
05:19:47earHertzscott666: that's half the work
05:20:08scott666yeah, but its the half ive dome before
05:20:17scott666*remember how to do
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05:20:50scorchePaul_The_Nerd: and i am assuming that iaudio is usable?
05:21:02scorchethought so
05:21:46scott666earHertz: more importantly, its the part that there is easy, step-by-step instructions on how to do
05:21:57 Join ssmith [0] (
05:22:01 Quit Juxt (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:22:23earHertzonce you'frre set up, download teh cvs, run, run configure, and make that's it
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05:23:44scott666earHertz: yeah, but that you have to figure out which patches you want and start making sure they play nicely together
05:24:07PsychO_ManiaChey i was wondering if anybody knew the song that the rockbox devs use when the play the first song a new developing mp3 player for rockbox?
05:24:10scott666thats the half i havnt gotten around to
05:24:47earHertzPsychO_ManiaC: The Internationale
05:24:52scott666click that Sound link
05:25:09PsychO_ManiaCthat the song or the artist?
05:25:16*earHertz is joking
05:25:24earHertzit's a commie/socialist song
05:25:31ssmithIs Iriver T30 supported by Rockbox?
05:25:49 Join psychomaniac [0] (
05:25:50 Quit PsychO_ManiaC (Client Quit)
05:25:52scott666PsychO_ManiaC: click the first link in the latest news post, it says right there
05:26:05scott666or, just leave
05:26:16scott666oh wait
05:28:47psychomaniacthanks scott666 i thought i saw it somwhere on the main site
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05:33:23*scorche will put off adding a bit of padding to the table for now
05:39:49 Quit TCK (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:40:00scorchePaul_The_Nerd: partial (stalled), partial, usable, and supported for the status states sound alright?
05:47:03scott666(OT: dont suppose anyone here has ever made a slipstreamed winxp install disc?)
05:47:44BloodySorcereri have
05:48:31scott666the directions im following want me to fill in a bunch of label fields (volume label, system identifier, etc.) is this actually an important step?
05:48:42earHertz(OT: where can I meet Russian women who want to marry for a green card?)
05:48:54earHertzsorry, I meant to ask that in ##linux
05:49:08scott666sorry, this window was too convient
05:49:18BloodySorcererscott666, probably not
05:53:34scott666i probably should have made sure sp2 came with SATA drivers before i started burning... :-/
05:54:16scott666oh well, i guess ill find out the hard/interesting way
05:54:29 Join Linas5 [0] (
05:54:51earHertzLinas5: main screen turn on
05:55:00scott666what you say?
05:55:17earHertzall your....
05:55:28 Quit ssmith ("Leaving")
05:55:38Linas5anyone familiar with the iaudio x5?
05:55:45BloodySorcererdefine "familiar"
05:55:53scott666I'm only speculating here, but I'm willing to bet that someone set us up the bomb.
05:56:01Linas5know how sensative it is to power
05:56:08Linas5(ie. will 6.5v kill it?)
05:56:13BloodySorcerer6.5 perhaps
05:56:26BloodySorcererAC adaptor is 5v
05:56:35BloodySorcererbut the battery is 4.2v (full) down to 3.3v empty
05:56:39BloodySorcereri dunno
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05:57:58 Join LinasTheMagicDra [0] (
05:58:04LinasTheMagicDrastupid wifi card...
05:58:29Paul_The_NerdLinasTheMagicDra: I'm guessing you plugged in 6.5, it didn't work, and now you want to know how likely it is that it's dead?
05:58:45LinasTheMagicDraim working on a battery pack
05:58:55LinasTheMagicDraand want to know if 4x alkaline batteries will kill it
05:58:58Paul_The_NerdYou'd be surprised how often that's the case.
05:59:15LinasTheMagicDrai can imagine
05:59:21LinasTheMagicDraseems like something i'd do...
05:59:53LinasTheMagicDrado i risk it
06:00:03LinasTheMagicDraor figure out some more complicated method
06:00:34Paul_The_NerdWouldn't three be much closer?
06:00:46LinasTheMagicDraor 4.5?
06:01:07LinasTheMagicDramisunderstood that
06:01:57LinasTheMagicDraill probably just use 3
06:02:23LinasTheMagicDrawould it really screw up the batteries or something if 3 of them are more drained than 1?
06:03:01BHSPitLappywow, linas has a novel written in here
06:03:32scorchePaul_The_Nerd: so were you not sure if it was both the greyscale and color 4g?
06:05:36Paul_The_Nerdscorche: Yeah, I'm not sure. I think it's both though
06:05:45scorcheone would think...
06:06:21Paul_The_NerdOne would think
06:07:19 Join Jungti1234 [0] (n=jungti12@
06:07:25scorchealso getting rid of most of these question marks
06:11:30 Quit LinasTheMagicDra ()
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06:20:06 Quit saratoga (Client Quit)
06:22:35 Join saratoga [0] ( new is the archos 104?
06:29:27 Join _FireFly_ [0] (
06:33:19 Join cerf [0] (
06:33:56cerfany opinions on which is better, the h140 or the h340 ?
06:35:03scorchecerf: for what?
06:35:08Paul_The_NerdYeah, but they're all gonna be opinions. ;)
06:35:35cerflive recordings and playback
06:35:43cerfgapless playback....
06:36:02Paul_The_NerdWell, playback is identical on both with Rockbox.
06:36:05cerfi dont care about video or drm
06:36:08scorcheh140 for recording
06:36:28Paul_The_NerdThe H140 offers digital recording, so if that matters to you, it wins right there. In terms of analog recording options, again they should be identical.
06:36:31*scorche waits for Paul_The_Nerd's fleshed out response to him
06:36:36cerfanything significant reason scorche ?
06:36:41Paul_The_Nerdscorche: You mean like that?
06:37:07cerfoptical in ?
06:37:28cerfi would be doing most of it with a mic so...
06:37:29midkaylet's begin calling scorche "whorche"!
06:37:34cerfgreat thanks
06:38:13cerfother that than, are there any real differences between the 2? i saw 340 supports drm... anything else you gys know of ?
06:38:37Paul_The_Nerdcerf: I'd suggest the H100 series if you think you ever might want optical recording. The H300 offers video, and USB on the go (neither of which Rockbox supports yet) but no additional recording potential.
06:38:51Paul_The_Nerdcerf: As for DRM, you lose it if you want to use Rockbox anyway.
06:39:16cerfcan you dual boot them ?
06:40:07Paul_The_NerdBut the DRM gets destroyed while installing Rockbox (or if you want Video from the international firmware) and is non-recoverable.
06:40:07scorchehow name doesnt show up
06:40:11scorchePaul_The_Nerd: doen for now
06:40:24scorchegot rid of a bunch of question marks...mostly about the ipod 4g
06:41:01cerfpaul, drm is destroyed with the dual boot method when in the iriver OS as well ?
06:41:11Paul_The_Nerdcerf: Yes.
06:41:17cerfohh too bad
06:41:36scorchePaul_The_Nerd: lemme know if there is anything else i need to change in there
06:41:44cerfis that the same for all players with drm support in their native os ?
06:41:58Paul_The_Nerdcerf: The DRM is stored in such a way that flashing any non-American firmware destroys it, and that's necessary to switch to a patched firmware with the Rockbox loader, *or* one of the firmware versions with Video
06:42:52cerfthat is very good to know
06:43:25Paul_The_Nerdcerf: The iPods do not lose their DRM support when Rockbox is installed. And it may be possible in the future for American H300s to be upgraded without loss of DRM, but there's not particularly much work going on that way. At the moment it's just an aspect of the way iRiver did the DRM in the American H300s
06:43:52cerfwhat about iaudio's ?
06:44:16Paul_The_NerdRight now they don't support dual boot.
06:44:33Paul_The_NerdAnd I don't know anything about their DRM support at all.
06:44:43 Quit fungame ()
06:45:05cerfi am going through that forum now...
06:45:49Paul_The_NerdI honestly wasn't even aware the X5 had DRM support
06:45:50 Join Seed [0] (
06:46:57cerfvery new i think
06:47:25cerflooks like you can dual boot the x5 but no mention of drm that i have found yet
06:48:56Paul_The_NerdThe dual boot method is a patch right now.
06:49:04Paul_The_NerdI should've clarified, there's no Official way to dual boot it yet.
06:49:52cerfno problem
06:50:21cerfyou gave the better answer really
06:51:16cerfi guess i could go back to tunebite and not worry about drm
06:51:31Paul_The_NerdI would recommend avoiding DRM anyway.
06:51:36Paul_The_NerdIt's a losing game in the long run.
06:52:11cerfohh yeah
06:52:16cerfits a total ripoff
06:52:21 Join dropandho [0] (
06:52:24dropandhohey guys!
06:52:38dropandhoquick battery question that i cant seem to find on the wiki or in the forum
06:53:05dropandhoi have a h120 charging right now
06:53:08dropandhoi want to get to bed
06:53:29dropandhois it my best bed to let it charge overnight...or to unplug it...and continue charging in the am
06:53:42dropandhoi dont wanna over charge it...but i dont want to have any battery mem set in!
06:54:08Paul_The_NerdThe H100 series have hardware control of charging. They'll cut themselves off.
06:54:14Paul_The_NerdYou can't overcharge it.
06:54:20dropandhoohh great
06:54:22dropandhogood to hear
06:54:34dropandhoso just let it go over night..and it cant hurt itself?!
06:54:49cerfany leads on where to get a cheap h140 ?
06:54:55dropandhonow i can sleep soundly
06:54:56dropandhonight all
06:55:13 Quit dropandho (Client Quit)
06:55:25Paul_The_Nerdcerf: There's a retailer that sells on ebay, Outletmp3. Though there is a higher rate of faulty units among them, they seem to be good about exchange/refunds, at least.
06:56:13cerfi will look them up thx
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06:58:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:01:26cerfseems like there is an abundance of Hx20's but few Hx40's
07:02:27Paul_The_NerdThat's because people went after the H140s first I think
07:13:58cerfwow... only online retailer i could fine is nulime and its $450!
07:14:00goffaheh.. i'm thinking of grabbing another 140
07:14:07goffaand then rmaing my current one
07:14:11cerfgood luck :)
07:14:33cerfu know a good place to get one ?
07:15:30goffaebay has worked in the past
07:16:50cerfyeah that seems like the only reasonable direction
07:18:04goffayeah.. put in a $200 bid and you should be in good shape
07:19:13cerfohh that sounds a lot better
07:19:26cerfi am tempted to wait for microsofts release
07:19:40goffawhat are they planning on?
07:19:52cerfread today that there is a good chance it will have a sat. radio option and wifi
07:21:15 Quit joe2 (Remote closed the connection)
07:21:29Paul_The_NerdWiFi seems kinda overkill for a portable music player, if it already has satellite radio.
07:22:58cerfsome other posts suggested that you will only be able to get one or the other
07:23:00 Quit aroman ("leaving")
07:23:10saratogai hadn't heard the sat radio thing, but everyone seems to say wifi
07:23:51saratogai guess it could be like windows ce where you have one OS, and about 8 million hardware configurations
07:24:23cerfif you look at that photo the app name is SiriuCE
07:24:48cerfwhich is either a joke or a clue...
07:26:16Paul_The_NerdSatellite Radio on a DAP wouldn't be that bad, I guess, but I don't think I want microsoft's implementation of a digital audio player.
07:28:40cerfi think the new toshiba gigabeat is probably a good look at how it would operate
07:29:13cerfin the dap "mode" anyway
07:29:32Paul_The_NerdI think if I ever got a new player it should have a focus on exactly two things: Battery life, and sound quality. Maybe FM or Satellite radio thrown in, UMS an absolute must, but that's it.
07:29:53Paul_The_NerdBut the lean seems to be in Multimedia functions instead.
07:32:10 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
07:37:57scorchei would much rather have wifi than satellite radio
07:38:12scorcheplus, satellite radio is very low quality
07:41:09Paul_The_NerdWiFi is only usable at a hotspot though. Not really something I want on a portable.
07:41:28 Join saratoga [0] (
07:41:33scorcheif only you could subscribe to a higher quality stream
07:41:51scorchething is, they would have to have less than half the number of current channels
07:41:54BHSPitLappyyeah, but who wouldn't like the ability of a wifi chip in a DAP... think of the Rockbox toy possibilities
07:41:56saratogaI think all the MS stuff is UMS
07:42:00saratogatheir specs require it IIRC
07:42:09Paul_The_Nerdsaratoga: MS invented MTP. I doubt it's UMS.
07:42:11BHSPitLappyad-hoc wireless rockdoom deathmatches
07:42:45saratogamaybe I'm confused, doesn't MTP imply UMS?
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07:43:06cerfthx for the help guys - time for bed
07:43:29 Quit cerf (" HydraIRC -> <- IRC with a difference")
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07:44:09scorchesaratoga: not necessarily
07:44:10 Quit saratoga (Client Quit)
07:44:57Paul_The_NerdMTP is media transfer protocol. I'm not even sure they have to give you drag 'n drop access to the contents, but I do know that it is more restrictive than UMS. For example, you need extra software in Linux to use it I believe.
07:44:59BHSPitLappyI don't think he was ready to hear that, scorche
07:45:08 Quit mantono (Remote closed the connection)
07:45:16scorcheyou do
07:45:52 Quit _FireFly_ ("Client exiting")
07:46:04scorcheMTP is basically PTP with some extras
07:46:20goffahmm... something special i have to do to get my h140 to load default fw?
07:46:32goffacopied ihp_120.hex to /
07:48:06Paul_The_NerdDo you mean boot into the iriver firmware?
07:48:14Paul_The_NerdBecause "default" would imply rockbox, since that's the default if it's present...
07:48:22Paul_The_NerdIf I recall you just hold Record while booting.
07:48:29Paul_The_NerdIt's been a long time
07:48:33Paul_The_NerdThat might be "Clear settings"
07:48:35 Join saratoga [0] (
07:48:36Paul_The_NerdI can't be sure.
07:48:44goffaseems to be working
07:48:47saratogasorry, the webclient keeps dropping me without telling me
07:48:54saratogaso that i'm typing and no one is seeing it
07:49:07saratogaas I understand it, MTP and UMS look essentially the same in Windows
07:49:13scorche<scorche> saratoga: not necessarily
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07:49:15scorche<Paul_The_Nerd> MTP is media transfer protocol. I'm not even sure they have to give you drag 'n drop access to the contents, but I do know that it is more restrictive than UMS. For example, you need extra software in Linux to use it I believe.
07:49:15scorche<BHSPitLappy> I don't think he was ready to hear that, scorche
07:49:15DBUGEnqueued KICK scorche
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07:49:16scorche<scorche> you do
07:49:17saratogaso if something implements MTP, you get drag and drop support
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07:49:20scorche<scorche> MTP is basically PTP with some extras
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07:49:29saratogayeah thanks, I checked the logs
07:50:00saratogaanyway, i believe MTP devices must support drag and drop, provided you're using an MTP aware OS, which was my point
07:50:17Paul_The_Nerdsaratoga: I don't think you're guaranteed Drag and Drop support, and you *certainly* aren't guaranteed that dragged and dropped MUSIC will play.
07:50:24saratogai guess this could be a problem in linux, but I don't know, there are already MTP libraries for linux
07:50:27saratogayeah i think you are
07:50:32Paul_The_NerdWell, the H10 is MTP
07:50:32goffahmm.. wonder how to switch iriver back to default
07:50:43Paul_The_NerdAnd you have to use programs to update its database if you simply drag songs over, if I understand.
07:50:55scorchegoffa: hold the record button while pressing on
07:51:01saratoga"Yes, you can drag and drop files to and from MTP devices connected to a PC just like you can with UMS. On Windows XP you need to have WMP10/11 installed in order to have the MTP driver on your system. Windows Vista will ship with native MTP support, obviously. With WMP11, I can drag albums to and from devices, I can copy non-media content to my device (data taxi) and I can double-click and execute content from a portable device."
07:51:03BHSPitLappyptp is sick
07:51:13saratogaThat would be the man behind MTP talking
07:51:13goffayeah.. but it went back to rockbox on next boot scorche
07:51:19goffahow do you make it permanent?
07:51:26Paul_The_Nerdsaratoga: That doesn't mean ALL MTP devices. That just means it's possible.
07:51:29goffai think i'm going to end up sending this back to iriver
07:51:33scorchegoffa: that would require editing some code =)
07:51:49Paul_The_Nerdgoffa: Do you mean to uninstall Rockbox?
07:51:50saratogaPaul_The_Nerd: I believe it does
07:51:59goffaPaul_The_Nerd: that would work
07:52:01Paul_The_Nerdsaratoga: I just cited an instance of an MTP device where drag and drop does not work
07:52:20Paul_The_Nerdgoffa: Boot into the iRiver firmware, then choose to upgrade firmware from within it, making sure you're using an unpatched h120.hex
07:52:23saratogaH10 can be MTP I believe
07:52:33saratogaisn't there also a non MTP firmware
07:52:48Paul_The_NerdAnd I understand that even in MTP it depends on the database, which the unit itself does not generate.
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07:53:14Paul_The_NerdEither way, acting like UMS is not the same AS UMS.
07:53:46Paul_The_NerdWhen I cited my requirements for a player, I stated UMS support, not drag and drop support, because I actually require UMS support of my players.
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07:54:37saratogaPaul_The_Nerd: whats the difference (serious question)
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07:54:59Paul_The_NerdUMS means I can plug it into nearly *any* computer for the purposes of transferring files to it.
07:55:21Paul_The_NerdWhich means that at a friend's house, or at class, if I need to bring files home, I can, without worrying about MTP support on the computer.
07:55:55saratogapresumably MTP would be ubiquitous, at least on Windows
07:55:57Paul_The_NerdUMS means I can plug it into nearly any computer I will ever have access to and put files on and off it. MTP means that it *seems* like UMS. In windows.
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07:56:04saratogaand in the worst case, you could just put an MTP app on the device
07:56:33saratogafor the occasional Win98 system or whatever
07:56:36Paul_The_Nerdsaratoga: On WinXP with a new WMP, and on Vista. At school they don't have recent media players installed. My friend may have linux, macs, etc.
07:57:01Paul_The_Nerdsaratoga: MTP is not on WinME, and I'm fairly certain not 2k either. Or XP unless you have a new enough WMP.
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07:57:38Paul_The_NerdThat's not nearly widely enough supported to say "Ubiquitous", even among windows computers. Plenty of places, especially schools, do not run the newest software.
07:57:39saratogathen use a third party app for those old machines?
07:58:22Zagorthe whole point of UMS is that you don't have to bother with drivers or applications. it's just another harddrive.
07:58:50saratogayes but it imposes limitations, which is the whole point of MTP
07:58:59Paul_The_NerdWait a second
07:59:04Paul_The_NerdHow does MTP have LESS limitations than UMS?
07:59:08Zagorthe whole point of MTP is to lock people into windows
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07:59:41saratogathats nonsense given that MTP already runs on LInux
08:00:03saratogaiirc the specs are published
08:00:10Paul_The_Nerdsaratoga: You haven't answered my "less limitations" statement yet.
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08:00:35saratogawell thats obvious, it makes updating your tag reader extremely difficult
08:00:42saratogafor closed source firmwares
08:00:49saratogaobvious example: Iaudio X5
08:00:53Zagorsaratoga: lots of windows stuff run on linux. that doesn't change the purpose.
08:01:08saratogawant ID3v2.4 support? TOO BAD (unless you use rockbox)
08:01:22saratogaZagor: Your arguement makes no sense
08:01:34Paul_The_Nerdsaratoga: Any firmware CAN support ID3v2.4 with UMS.
08:01:39Paul_The_NerdOr anything else for that matter.
08:01:42saratogaMS wants to lock people into WIndows, so they publish the specs and encourage MTP support
08:01:44Paul_The_NerdMTP is a way of *transferring* the data.
08:01:52saratogaYou miss my point
08:02:11saratogahow do I add ID3v2.4 support to the retail X5 firmware
08:02:15Paul_The_NerdIn fact the protocol itself does not implement synchronization, which is what you seem to be focused on.
08:02:23Paul_The_NerdMTP doesn't add ID3v2.4 support to X5 either.
08:02:25saratogano I am not
08:02:39saratogathe X5 does not support MTP ...
08:03:05saratogamaybe I am completely confused here, so i'll start from the beggining and you can correct me if I"m wrong
08:03:05Paul_The_NerdYes, but what I'm saying is, what does MTP have to do with ID3v2.4?
08:03:08ZagorMTP is a transfer protocol. not a magic automatic firmware upgrade device...
08:03:31saratogaMTP has a program or driver on a PC parse tags, correct?
08:03:48saratoga(instead of the device iteself)
08:03:49Paul_The_NerdThe protocol itself does not implement synchronization
08:04:33Paul_The_NerdWell, the metadata gets handled, I suppose.
08:04:41saratogasynchronization == copying files over, right?
08:04:43Paul_The_NerdBut that then depends on the capabilities of the software transferring the files.
08:04:50saratogawait a second
08:05:03Paul_The_NerdSynchronization == comparing the contents of the computer database with the contents of the player, and making sure they match.
08:05:13saratogadoes it depend on software on a PC to parse tags or not?
08:05:35saratogaas I understand it, MTP does
08:06:26saratogawhich means that if there is a limitation (say, lack of ID3v2.4 support), I could simply update my software to get support
08:07:00saratogawhereas with UMS, I would need to update the firmware for my player, a task which is often difficult or impossible (short of porting Rockbox)
08:07:20Paul_The_NerdI don't understand that statement
08:07:33Paul_The_NerdIn case 1, the player being updated, the vendor has to release a firmware update.
08:07:38Zagorsaratoga: methinks you place too much faith in commercial developers.
08:07:38Paul_The_NerdIn case 2, the vendor has to release a software update.
08:07:50Paul_The_NerdIn BOTH cases, it depends on the vendor releasing an update.
08:07:54saratogano it does not
08:08:02saratogaMTP libraries are open source
08:08:06Paul_The_NerdWere you planning on hacking Windows Media Player?
08:08:17saratogawho mentioned WMP?
08:08:20saratogaI run linux
08:08:42saratogaI can simply recompile with an updated ID3v2 parser
08:09:11saratogathough I suppose if you actually like WMP you'd be out of luck
08:09:36saratogastill, I have more faith in MS to update WMP then I do most hardware companies to update the firmware of older players
08:09:55Zagorinteresting "open" specification: "This license does not include the right to build a Licensed Implementation for a personal computer that implements that ?Enhanced Initiator? features, as described in the Specification. To build such an implementation, you must obtain a separate license from Microsoft."
08:09:57Paul_The_NerdDoes MTP define the database format on the player?
08:10:14Zagorand "This license does not include the right to distribute your Licensed Implementation."
08:10:49saratogathats MS's implementation
08:10:54saratogapresumably, you would not use it
08:10:59Paul_The_NerdThe X5 can't use ID3v2.4 tags perhaps, but any database-based player can do what you're describing, having an external program update the database.
08:11:01Zagorno, that's the license for the specification
08:11:22saratogalibmtp is GPLed
08:12:00Zagorso is mplayer...
08:12:10Zagoractually, no it isn't. bad analogy.
08:12:36saratogaPaul_The_Nerd: YES exactly, but there is no standard
08:13:12saratogahaving a standard allows you to have something like a UMS driver, except that supports reading metadata
08:13:17Paul_The_Nerdsaratoga: And so a patented standard that for windows users requires installation of Windows Media player, and for other operating systems requires third party software, is better?
08:13:34saratogaPaul_The_Nerd: Absolutely
08:13:43saratogabecause I don't believe the standard is patented
08:13:48Zagor"good" will always be subjective
08:13:52saratogaso anyone can implement first party support
08:13:58Paul_The_NerdAnd what's the solution for computers that you cannot install software on, or can add MTP support to?
08:14:22saratogawhat kind of computer cannot run software, but can download or rip music?
08:14:27saratogai do not see where you're going with this
08:14:35sharpea work-related kind of computer.
08:14:51Zagorsaratoga: lots of computer can download from internet, but not install new software.
08:14:57scorcheor any type of secured computer really
08:15:17saratogawhat do you mean install
08:15:31Zagorinstall an mtp application
08:15:49saratogawould running it off your DAP be out of the question?
08:15:53saratogathe way I run foobar off my ipod to update it?
08:16:00Paul_The_Nerdsaratoga: How could you run it from your DAP?
08:16:12Paul_The_NerdIf you cannot connect to your dap because of lack of MTP support, how do you connect to run the software?
08:16:13Zagorso the DAP needs both ums and mtp then?
08:16:51saratogaI'm pretty sure MTP implies that you can see the partition, even if you need software to add stuff like the ipod does
08:16:54saratogaor is that wrong?
08:17:00saratogathe only MTP DAP I used was like that
08:17:24Zagorif the computer does not talk MTP, you cannot see connect your dap to it.
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08:17:28Paul_The_NerdNo, MTP players will not show up as anything without MTP installed.
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08:17:30saratogaI mean, how would your MTP aware app add things if it couldn't mount the partition
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08:18:12Zagorsaratoga: MTP is not a layer on top of UMS. it replaces it completely.
08:18:25Paul_The_Nerdsaratoga: You don't have direct access to the partition. Your app talks with the software on the player, the player itself has access to the partition. If your computer doesn't speak MTP, the software won't respond on the player.
08:18:27Zagorso no, you DON'T mount a partition
08:19:23Paul_The_NerdIn fact, if you take a Sansa, and switch it between MTP and MSC (UMS) mode, you can see two rather different filetrees, because it hides a good portion of the drive from you in MTP mode.
08:21:57saratogaoh wow
08:21:59saratogathats retarded
08:22:18saratogayou guys are right, the spec doesn't require you to be able to mount it without MTP
08:22:22saratogawhy would they do that
08:22:31saratogamaking it optional just complicates everything
08:23:02sharpeit's a piece of cake to bake a pretty cake...
08:23:18scorchesharpe: did midkay show you that?
08:23:31scorchehow could he...
08:23:36sharpewhile ago. listening to it on my mp3 player.
08:23:39scorchethat was something special that i shared with him
08:24:07Paul_The_Nerdsaratoga: A standard for syncing metadata would be great, IF it were a layer on top of UMS, so that if it weren't present, you could still simply copy files as necessary.
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08:27:19saratogayeah i see what you mean. it'll be nice if support is everywhere, but without backwards compatability the transistion is going to blow
08:27:43saratogahopefully vendors will be smart enough to include UMS support as a fallback
08:27:53Paul_The_NerdMany many don't
08:27:56Paul_The_NerdiRiver for example.
08:28:12Paul_The_NerdThe T-series and U-series players don't have UMS, though some of the T-Series can be flashed to a UMS-only firmware
08:28:30saratogais UMS somehow complicated to implement
08:28:48Paul_The_NerdYou can't transfer DRMed music over UMS
08:29:02Paul_The_NerdYou can't prevent music from being removed over UMS either.
08:29:31saratogadoes iriver really care about those things?
08:29:40saratogai mean, if people are happy with MTP, they're probably not using DRM anyway
08:29:49saratogasorry, without MTP
08:29:49Paul_The_NerdWhy would you say that?
08:29:59saratogayeah, my bad
08:30:08Paul_The_NerdBut either you choose MTP or UMS, but you don't get both, for some reason
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08:33:22Zagorthe reason is business, as you have identified. you don't get to run protected WMP files on UMS players
08:34:23Galoisyou can try to do DRM over any storage medium, including regular hard drives, but it doesn't work very well
08:34:32Paul_The_NerdThe other fear I have of MTP is that it allows the OS to transcode in the background during transfers, and I *really* don't like the idea of that happening, potentially without notification.
08:35:57saratogaYou're thinking of an MP3 > ATRAC type thing like Sony used to do?
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08:36:30Paul_The_NerdOr an "Everything->Mp3" type thing, yes.
08:36:59sharpeor the best, everything to some unheard of encrypted format.
08:37:44saratogai don't think that'd be very likely though
08:37:54saratogaafaik MTP just transfers the file and metadata
08:38:05saratogaso you'd need a third party driver to do the transcode
08:38:15saratoga(at least I think)
08:38:29Paul_The_Nerdsaratoga: MTP doesn't even guarantee your device's compatibility with Windows, from what I read.
08:39:11Paul_The_NerdSince it allows for support of a few other database formats than the one that windows will write to, if your player uses those, you still need a third party program to sync your songs over, according to the article I read a few minutes ago.
08:40:13saratogadoes it even spec a database format? I thought it just handled transfer
08:40:28saratogaIIRC it doesn't even tell you what file system to use, let alone how to store stuff
08:40:53Paul_The_NerdAccording to this: "In addition to MSC, MTP joins at least two other synchronization protocols used to transfer digital media to portable devices: iSync, used by Apple's iPod, and SyncML"
08:41:17Paul_The_NerdIt then goes on to say that you'll have to use separate software to transfer to devices using those two formats.
08:41:24saratogait handles syncronization?
08:41:38saratogamaybe they're talking about WMP, not the protocol itself
08:41:48saratogai need to just read this whole damn thing
08:41:57Paul_The_NerdThey specifically say that WMP does not support SyncML
08:42:15CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
08:42:15*Paul_The_Nerd shrugs
08:42:17Paul_The_NerdI dunno.
08:42:36Paul_The_NerdI think I just prefer to keep the storage of my device separate from the software running on the device, and fully within my personal control
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08:46:14Paul_The_NerdThough, Rockbox could potentially support MTP on devices like the iPod. Which could serve as another means of externally creating the TagCache, in a way.
08:48:03sharpeooh, transparently add/remove items from tagcache.
08:49:01Paul_The_NerdOf course, it may even be possible to simply treat it as UMS, and have the TagCache metadata parser scan recognized filetypes as they're written to the drive.
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09:34:33JdGordonso.. what does everyone think about moveing the settings config menus out of the core and into plugins now we can sort of guess the size benefits?
09:36:59amiconnHmmmmm, interesting tips on the ml....
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09:39:32amiconn1bit and 2bit lcd drivers will receive a bit of speedup soon :)
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09:40:21[HO]vo|thello all. if an item (FM Recorder) is being sold in broken condition with no other information given, would it be safe to assume that it will most probably have a bad hard drive
09:41:28scorcheif you can get your money back if it isnt, yes
09:41:42scorchebut it could be many things
09:42:26[HO]vo|ti'm sure. it's on ebay right now and i just lost my unit to the headphone out gone bad
09:43:06Paul_The_NerdCan you not contact the seller and ask for more information?
09:43:35scorcheUsed archos jukebox recorder 15. It has the rockbox operating system currently loaded, which is an updated and better version than the original OS.
09:43:45midkaywe can guess what the problem is but there's no use in that. it could be anything..
09:43:56[HO]vo|ti see
09:44:07[HO]vo|twell, whatever the case
09:44:13midkayask him for details, i'd suggest.
09:44:21[HO]vo|twhat can i do to preserve the longelivity of my headphone out on my new(/used) unit?
09:44:29midkaywhat happens when you try to turn it on, any weird noises, any errors..
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09:44:51scorchehave you tried replacing the batteries, hd, etc
09:44:53[HO]vo|tmidkay: thanks, will do
09:45:15midkayscorche, well, i doubt he's tried replacing the HD..
09:45:29scorcheya never know..
09:45:33midkayhe's probably just like "k, it doesn't work, i won't put in extra money to find that it might still not work, i'll just ebay it".
09:45:34scorcheif it is just the hd, it should at least come on
09:45:41scorche(to some extent
09:45:42midkayright, so you could ask if he
09:45:53midkayif he knows what the problem is, or if not, any clues as to what the problem is.
09:46:11[HO]vo|tyeah, i wouldnt have thought to ask what happens when he tries to turn it on.
09:46:30[HO]vo|tbut since its an fm recorder i doubt he has tried to replace the batteries
09:46:33midkayyeah, just ask for any info he has as to what's up..
09:46:35midkayhaha, yeah.
09:46:42scorcheif it shows absolutely no life when turning on, it is not the hard drive
09:46:56scorcheyeah...i noticed that it was a v2 when i looked online
09:47:22midkayscorche: map rework underway! sorta!
09:47:28[HO]vo|tanyone here familiar with the hardware of a V2 recorder?
09:47:28scorcheuh oh..
09:47:30peturJdGordon: I don't see any benifits doing that, the size gain would be very low... You could make some wizard-style plugins but please keep the core settings in the binary
09:47:41scorche[HO]vo|t: yes batteries for v1 recorder for 15$....why?
09:49:41JdGordonpetur: the size benifit is about 6kb on recorder and 14kb on iriver, so it may be a good way to save space if we get too close to the archos size limits..
09:50:11midkaysettings menus as plugins?
09:50:21midkaythose are about as core functionality as it gets, IMO.
09:50:49LinusNimho too
09:51:05JdGordonnot really... and why would moving it to plugins mean its not? how often do u go into the menus anyway? and u never do while your in a plugin
09:51:11midkaybeing stuck with a setting after somehow not updating your plugins correctly, for example.
09:51:32JdGordonah, well thats a good point :p
09:51:49midkayjust sounds like a messy, problematic way of reducing size a small amount.
09:51:58LinusNnot men tioning the time it takes to load the plugin when you want to change the settings
09:52:05midkaynot to mention the end-user.. disk spinups.. yeah.
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09:53:51Paul_The_NerdWell the idea I had was that the settings plugin would actually always be resident in the plugin buffer, and only unloaded when another plugin was loaded. So the only additional spinup would be win a plugin was exited and the menu plugin was reloaded (a spinup that occurs anyway if you have dircache disabled). But it was just a semi-random idea.
09:54:03LinusNlast but not the least, it's not yet possible to translate the strings in a plugin
09:54:51midkayi still think it's a bad idea mostly because of the fact that you can't change anything without the plugin..
09:54:53JdGordonLinusN: wasnt that meant to come with langv2?
09:54:58Paul_The_NerdActually, I'd say the lack of translation features in plugins is pretty much a "least" since that's a planned feature already anyway.
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09:55:07LinusNyes, but it's not yet functional
09:55:11JdGordonah k
09:55:21Paul_The_NerdYes, but it could still be an "Must be implemented first" situation.
09:55:26midkayfeels to me like it's just too.. important.. to put into a plugin.
09:55:26LinusNand the proposed system you have separate lang files for the plugins
09:55:43LinusNmeaning separate voice files as well
09:55:49LinusNlet's not go there
09:55:50Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: My idea actually allowed for the loading of config files outside of the plugin.
09:56:13midkayPaul_The_Nerd, okay, so then if you forget your plugin you have to go in and tweak some cfg files and then load it.. hm..
09:56:18JdGordonwhy isnt the strings array just made available to the plugins? or is there more to it than that?
09:56:20midkaydunno how well that'd go over with most people.
09:56:31LinusNJdGordon: because plugins are meant to be separate from the core
09:56:42midkaymaybe the number of features/efficiency of them could be looked at first, for example, instead of just offloading them to disk.
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09:56:59LinusNthat's the whole idea with the plugins
09:57:26peturstring memory buffer is already 14K (iirc)
09:57:56JdGordonye, but thats a bit silly with rb, because about the only plugins available are the official ones, so they could be tied more tighlty than other plugin systems..
09:58:34Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: I think "forgetting your plugin" is kinda awkward. In that situation it's likely they've forgotten their codecs too. It's not like you'd keep it in the /rocks/ folder
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09:58:40*LinusN glances at
09:59:35JdGordon.. apart from those..
09:59:35LinusNbasically, the plugins are plugins, and not overlays
09:59:45Paul_The_NerdThe idea wasn't for it to be a plugin. Just run from the plugin buffer, and be separated from the core.
09:59:54*Paul_The_Nerd shrugs
09:59:57midkayso basically a plugin. :)
10:00:07JdGordonas mucha plugin as the codecs
10:00:09midkayPaul_The_Nerd, i didn't mean literally forgot.. but sometimes things happen..
10:00:13LinusNin fact, we already have one overlay-style plugin
10:00:14midkayright, meaning "external"..
10:00:17LinusNthe credits
10:00:48LinusNbut i believe offloading the settings would be too much of a hassle
10:00:57midkayit's like suggesting making the file browser or the main menu a plugin to me.. it doesn't feel right, settings are rockboxwide, they should be integrated, I think.
10:01:15 Join `3nergy [0] (
10:01:44 Quit Mikachu (Remote closed the connection)
10:01:54Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Yes, but the only thing that could *really* happen is an improper install of Rockbox. Which can easily leave the firmware unusable as it is.
10:02:03[HO]vo|t pardon the shoddy soldering but the unit was old and busted anyway. <- picture of my v2 recorder midway through my attempt at swapping "line out" for "headphone out" because headphone had extremely loose connectors. Basically what I ask is this: what is the mini-pcb for?
10:02:26midkayunusable in some ways != unconfigurable in any way...
10:02:33 Join Mikachu [0] (
10:02:59midkayand i don't feel it's the same kind of unusable. there are just some things that i think of as "core" and settings is one of the first that come to mind.
10:03:03Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: If your codecs are the wrong version, you can't play any music.
10:03:24midkayright, but rockbox still works, you can still mess with it, you can still configure it..
10:03:30Paul_The_NerdTo what end?
10:03:40midkaywhat do you mean, to what end?
10:03:50Paul_The_NerdI would rather be able to play music, but be unable to set my font than the opposite.
10:04:15Paul_The_NerdThe quick-menu would still be core, the context menu probably as well.
10:04:15midkaywhat about set your contrast if it got messed up, set your backlight timeout if it's off and midnight?
10:05:20Paul_The_NerdNow you're getting into special cases. What if you somehow didn't install Rockbox properly *and* you wanted to change X setting. It's the same as if "What if you went on a trip, and your MP3 codec was the wrong version, so your audiobooks won't play?" It happens.
10:05:29midkayit's less to me a factual "this is core" and "this can be external" as a "this feels like it ought to be core for only a couple reasons that aren't very assuring" and "this will work fine as external".
10:05:42Paul_The_NerdIf you really want *core* functionality to always be available, then work out how to insure that the codecs always work.
10:05:59midkayi can't provide real reasons for this, i can't think of any. settings to me are simply very core.
10:06:42midkaymusic playback is important, yes.. but it's not core to me. i mean the playback code is. but the codecs are optional/modular.
10:06:43scorchethere are many devices that have to have an external device interfaced with them to be able to change settings
10:07:10midkaysettings is like.. part of "the rockbox you get without the .rockbox folder".
10:07:15midkaythe menu and browser.
10:07:25Paul_The_NerdI kinda think that "the ability to play music" is the utmost core of an MP3 player.
10:07:33Paul_The_NerdMaybe I'm just strange though.
10:07:34midkaysigh, alright.
10:07:47sharpewhat'd i miss?
10:07:55midkayhow about, read up?
10:08:00scorcheexample: car electronics...they function and do thir job just fine...however, to change the settings, you have to have an external device to do it
10:08:02Paul_The_NerdI'm not arguing strongly in favour of offloading settings.
10:08:19midkayscorche, "car electronics"?
10:08:25Paul_The_NerdI'm just saying that really, the menuized method of changing them is certainly in my opinion no more crucial than playback, since the player is at least usable without them.
10:08:30scorchemidkay: i am being vague, yes
10:08:39scorchehowever, you can figure out what i mean >_>
10:08:43midkayscorche, so what about a specific example?
10:08:44LinusNscorche: i'd say i change my mp3 player settings far more often than i tune my car
10:08:53midkayi can't sorry.. "car devices".. what? cell phone? no.. car stereo? no.. huh?
10:08:54Paul_The_NerdI agree with LinusN about that one.
10:09:02scorchethat is a given
10:09:31LinusNmy argument against the offloading of the settings would simply be KISS
10:09:41scorchebut, i am just with the opinion of Paul_The_Nerd that music playing is the utmost core
10:09:43LinusNit's a hassle, and complicates the code
10:09:46midkayall i can say is that settings feel absolutely core to me.. there are certainly factual counters to that, e.g. "well if you don't have the settings module you can't play any music", but there isn't much factual to go the other way, than feel..
10:10:00midkayand for a whopping 6kb, of all things..
10:10:19midkaysizable, but i wouldn't say massive/imperative.
10:10:21 Quit Criamos ("( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )")
10:10:23JdGordon6kb is 6kb more crap that can be added :D
10:10:31Paul_The_NerdLinusN: The idea as I suggested was as a thought if size constraints ever become too overwhelming.
10:10:48Paul_The_NerdNot as a "We must do this NOW!" idea.
10:10:51scorchepersonally, i feel that there is no need to go this far, unless we have a use for the space ready and it is worth it enough to go through the trouble
10:10:59LinusNPaul_The_Nerd: it's certainly a thing to consider when we have few other options
10:11:11midkayscorche, that's quite incongrous with your earlier statement about how this is such a good idea.. :)
10:11:25scorchewhere did i say that?
10:11:51Paul_The_NerdLinusN: And that's all I wanted to do. Toss it out while the idea was still in my head, so that people could discuss it. It's better to at least come up with possibilities now, instead of scrambling for ideas later. :)
10:11:55midkayyou backed it up what what you seemed to believe was a firm statement involving "the same thing happens with car electronics" which you haven't, by the way, proceeded to clarify in any way.
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10:12:08Paul_The_NerdNow that it's been beaten around, it can probably be shelved with a nice little "In case of emergency, break glass" sticker.
10:12:14 Quit muesli|delhi ("ich will Kühe!!!")
10:12:27scorchebecause there is no need to...i was backing up the "playing music is the utmost core" idea
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10:13:08midkay"no need to" what? clarify? sure there is, i don't have any idea what you're talking about.
10:13:29Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Many car engines have a computer built in that can only be accessed with external hardware.
10:14:05scorchemidkay: you want specifics?...the electronic limiter...airbag constraints...rpm to shift gears
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10:14:13midkaycar *engines* or "car electronics" as in end-user stuff? what sort of average driver tweaks his car engine EVER in his life, let alone once, versus probable adjustment-of-mp3-player-settings-daily?
10:14:38midkaywho EVER adjusts "rpm to shift gears"?
10:14:45scorche*electronics in cars
10:14:49midkayother than a few people who give a crap about that and maybe have the equipment..
10:14:54midkayand the interest..
10:15:06midkaythe point about those is that they aren't even really meant to be end-user adjustable.
10:15:14Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: As a note, I cannot turn my TV on or Off without external hardware.
10:15:19midkay*settings* take up most of the main Rockbox menu.
10:15:27midkayPaul_The_Nerd, that's interesting - why not?
10:15:34Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: It doesn't have a power button.
10:15:39midkay.. why not?
10:16:06midkaywhat model, may i ask? *interested*
10:16:17Paul_The_NerdIt has channel buttons, volume buttons, and access to a basic menu. But power on/off, and many of its other functions, are only available via the remote.
10:16:19midkaypretty stupid idea..
10:16:37midkayi find that quite impossible. :) a model would be nice, if you please!
10:16:40Paul_The_NerdIt's an Insignia brand HDTV.
10:16:42JdGordonjust butting in for a sec... there is a difference betweeen plugins which are games and plugins which add core funcitonality
10:17:08midkayPaul_The_Nerd, my dad had a 50" plasma TV where the power button was hidden under the bottom edge instead of along the edge with the channel/volume buttons..
10:17:08LinusNi can't tune the channels without remote on my 14" tv
10:17:23scorchei cannot change the settings on my computer without an external device =)
10:17:25LinusNwhich annoyed the hell out of me when i lost the remote :-)
10:17:55Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: It's definitely not on the bottom edge. It's possible they've hidden it somewhere else, but I've not yet found it.
10:18:07LinusNJdGordon: yes, we like to think that plugins are not core functionality
10:18:16midkayPaul_The_Nerd, i can't possibly imagine having volume and channel buttons but not a power one - you should check again indeed. :)
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10:18:40JdGordonLinusN: ye, and im disgreeing with you :D but i understand and will drop the subject
10:18:42Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: What I should do is dig up the manual.
10:19:03midkayPaul_The_Nerd, yeah, that'd be useful. :) i'm curious in fact if that's possible, although i can't imagine it at all.
10:19:25Paul_The_NerdIt's possible it's just somewhere discrete and awkward.
10:19:25LinusNespecially since it draws power even when not active
10:19:26midkaycan't find anything on google as to an insignia TV "no power button" phenomena. :)
10:19:40midkayPaul_The_Nerd, yeah, maybe. :)
10:20:08Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: My biggest complaint about this TV is the long startup time. Probably 15-20 seconds from power on to picture.
10:20:44Paul_The_NerdWell, that and the slight flickering in 1080i. But I don't like 1080i anyway.
10:21:13 Quit eGen_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:22:33Paul_The_NerdUnfortunately my cable box only outputs 1080i for some unknown reason.
10:22:41midkayPaul_The_Nerd, comcast?
10:22:55Paul_The_NerdTime Warner
10:22:57midkaywell.. i forget the cable box brand..
10:23:04Paul_The_NerdScientific America
10:23:10midkayon mine i managed my way into a kind of debug menu where you can adjust that.
10:23:26Paul_The_NerdTried the debug menu. Apparenlty I need the 3250 box. The 3100 lacks the option to change it.
10:23:29midkayprobably not supposed to be user-accessible, but i think i read it in the manual..
10:23:45midkaykind of those most-users-probably-don't-care-but-it's-there-for-people-who-want-to-change-the-defaults settings.
10:23:53midkaythat's weird/sucky.
10:24:10Paul_The_NerdWhich means 720p channels are converted to 1080i, THEN my TV, which doesn't have 1080 lines, converts them down and deinterlaces them poorly, further degrading the picture, to the point that a 720p signal is significantly better than a 1080i.
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10:25:11Paul_The_NerdAnd normal TV channels, the 480i ones, look worse than normal, because I can see the compression artifacts, and then the flicker from the deinterlaced 1080i signal.
10:25:24Paul_The_NerdI can see how people aren't being particularly impressed by HDTVs around here.
10:26:22midkaypoor guy. :)
10:26:38midkaydemand a new cable box!
10:26:44Paul_The_NerdI tried that.
10:26:48Paul_The_NerdThey're out of 3250s
10:26:56scorcheif you whine a lot, they will do it
10:27:02Paul_The_NerdI'm sure they've gone to the hordes of people who own HDTVs just to watch the superbowl.
10:27:15scorchemaybe a few drops of saline before you walk in
10:27:29Paul_The_NerdOf course, I only own one because when I was looking to replace my old TV, it was $50 more for an HDTV of the same size.
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10:36:32JdGordonthe godfather dvd makers suk.. they used the same dvd title for all 3 movies!
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10:39:58JdGordonno, im an idiot.. the cases all look the same under crappy light :p
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10:52:53sharpei'm so bored.. there's just nothing to do.
10:53:03sharpeeveryone's asleep. i can't sleep.
10:53:32midkaypoor guy.
10:53:40midkayi'm here 4 u.
10:53:50sharpeah... thanks.
10:54:57petursharpe: stop saying that, there are people in this channel that lack spare time :/
10:55:23peturstart programming
10:55:56sharpepetur: i'm sorry. i'll try to be less cavalier with my lack of things to do.. :D
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10:56:59kitababenoen våkne her da???
10:57:19peturkitababe: english please
10:58:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:58:49 Part kitababe
10:59:37sharpeglad we're always here to help people.
11:00:06 Join PaulJam [0] (
11:00:36sharpeseven day risk-free trial. ahahah...
11:00:45 Join sven [0] (
11:01:00sharpescorche: yes?
11:01:08scorchesharpe: no.
11:01:17sharpescorche: no, it's yes.
11:01:25scorchesharpe: no.
11:01:35sharpescorche: yes.
11:01:42scorchesharpe: no.
11:01:45sharpescorche: yes.
11:01:48scorchesharpe: no.
11:01:51DBUGEnqueued KICK sharpe
11:01:51sharpescorche: yes.
11:01:51DBUGEnqueued KICK scorche
11:01:51scorchesharpe: no.
11:01:53sharpescorche: yes.
11:01:53scorchesharpe: no.
11:01:54***Alert Mode level 1
11:01:54sharpescorche: yes.
11:01:55***Alert Mode level 2
11:01:55scorchesharpe: no.
11:01:56sharpescorche: yes.
11:01:56***Alert Mode level 3
11:01:56scorchesharpe: no.
11:01:58sharpescorche: yes.
11:01:59***Alert Mode level 4
11:01:59scorchesharpe: no.
11:02:08Mode"#rockbox +o Zagor " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
11:02:14CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
11:02:14*scorche sighs
11:02:46Zagorbehave or I'll sic logbot on you :-)
11:02:57scorchebut he just logs...
11:03:01scorcheor does he?!?!?
11:03:04Zagornot if I op him
11:03:10midkaydo it! do it!
11:03:16sharpescorche: he'll throw the logs at you. get it? like, throwing the book at someone. ahah.
11:03:22midkayi haven't seen logbot kick some ass in quite a while. :)
11:03:33peturlast time he kicked half the channel
11:03:45midkayall the better!
11:03:50sharpehe a vindictive one he is.
11:04:09*scorche starts to get excited
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11:04:15midkay"he a vindictive one he's"?
11:04:55sharpeokay. "he's a vindictive one, he is." how people sometimes always say 'he is' redundantly after already saying 'he is' at the beginning of the statement.
11:05:47midkaybut you said "he's" after the initial sentence.
11:05:56midkayi took that as shortening the last "he is" to "he's".
11:06:11midkayyou should be more specific, like s/he/he's/ or -he+he's.
11:07:01sharpesorry. it's all my fault anyway.
11:07:23midkayof course.
11:12:00***Alert Mode OFF
11:12:02scorchesharpe: i am sorry...i think that we should resolve our differences and work toward the good of rockbox
11:12:43peturor at least take it to pm's :p
11:13:05scorchemsg sharpe: no.
11:14:31midkaywho says "lol" anyways.
11:14:50sharpeJdGordon: welcome to my world.
11:15:15midkaytoo bad you passed up that opportunity to hear me play Prey, huh, sharpe.
11:15:22sharpemidkay: yeah.
11:15:23midkaythen you could be doing what you would have been doing then, now.
11:15:49scorcheare you two using my vent server without me there? =O
11:16:29midkayand i can host if you want.
11:18:44sharpemidkay: ah, you can get to hear what just happened.
11:19:12sharpei guarantee it's not funny or exciting at all.
11:20:47sharpenah, it's okay.
11:23:19Mode"#rockbox -o Zagor " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
11:23:30*scorche breathes again
11:23:48*sharpe knew someone would be opped.
11:25:24JdGordonanyone been able to install libsdl-dev on ubuntu?
11:28:29sharpei think the general silence speaks for itself.
11:32:57*petur wonders if there's an expert in integrity (rtos) in the channel (looks at the swedes ;) )
11:33:19sharpei'm not swedish... :\
11:34:34 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
11:34:50sharpeoh well. goodnight everyone. or... whatever.
11:35:05peturlunch in 30 minutes :)
11:36:09Zagorpetur: I've worked with many differenet rtos:es, but not Integrity
11:37:16peturit's quite integrity specific... another day, another rtos...
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11:39:19dan_aIs anyone able to help me get my head around the FIQ code? I'm trying to make Rockbox play sound on a 3g iPod...
11:39:51linuxstbWhat do you understand so far?
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11:40:38linuxstb...or do you have any specific questions about it?
11:41:24dan_aI know that the FIQ is getting called, and then I think it goes into an endless loop until it crashes
11:41:58linuxstbHow do you know it's being called?
11:43:17dan_aI did some cheap and nasty debugging (calling lcd_set_flip() from within the handler, and then changing where I called that until the screen stopped flipping)
11:44:03Slasherihmm, i just started implementing the virtual filesystem support in rockbox :)
11:44:16peturSlasheri: nice!
11:44:39linuxstbI'm just looking at the code now... Try removing the prototype line from the FIQ function - i.e. void fiq(void) ICODE_ATTR __attribute__ ((interrupt ("FIQ")));
11:44:49amiconnSlasheri: Please keep an eye on code size...
11:45:19dan_alinuxstb: OK, I'll give that a go when I get home from work. Am I right in thinking that other interrupts are disabled until FIFO_FREE_COUNT is less than 2?
11:45:25amiconnYour runtimedb code already increaed binary size on archos by ~5KB
11:45:32Slasheriamiconn: oh, i try..
11:46:36JdGordonsee! removing the settings will add more room for useless stuff :D
11:46:40*JdGordon shuts up
11:47:34linuxstbdan_a: Yes, that's how it should work...
11:48:54dan_alinuxstb: Thanks. Why should taking the prototype line away help?
11:50:02linuxstbBecause I'm not sure that should be used - afaics, the FIQ handler code in crt0.S just calls the fiq() function as if it was a normal C function.
11:50:15linuxstbCan you tell if the function actually exits after the first time it is called?
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11:50:34linuxstbBut maybe that prototype does no harm...
11:51:13tongashi all
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11:52:03tongasi'd like to upload my own WPS for iPod 5G on the RBx Wiki, but i really have difficulties... to understand how to !
11:53:08dan_alinuxstb: It doesn't get as far as calling dma_stop, but I've not checked to see if it re-enables the interrupts yet
11:53:43dan_aSo I don't know
11:54:49linuxstbdan_a: But it sounds like it is quite close to working - last feedback I got was that the FIQ routine was never being called. So did you change anything to get the FIQ working?
11:55:11dan_aNo, nothing
11:55:13amiconnlinuxstb: If the actual FIQ handler calls another function, this other function must not be marked as a FIQ handler.
11:55:34amiconnSo you're right about removing the prototype
11:56:09*RaeNye snaps his finger
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11:56:54dan_aamiconn: Isn't fiq() the actual FIQ handler, then?
11:57:08linuxstbChecking the logs, preglow added it to the C version of the FIQ handler when he implemented the ASM version. It wasn't there in my original C version.
11:57:14linuxstbThe actual handler is in crt0.S
11:57:23linuxstb...which then calls fiw()
12:01:18dan_aHmmm... would it be worth someone with a newer iPod quickly checking that the C version of the handler works?
12:05:03linuxstbGood idea - I'll try it now.
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12:10:12amiconnlinuxstb: Re my strange gcc problem yesterday - it seems my cygwin installation is hosed :/
12:10:39amiconnThe problem happens whenever I start gcc with -mno-cygwin (causing gcc to switch to mingw32)
12:10:54linuxstbdan_a: Yes, I get an immeditate illegal instruction trying to use the C handler... I'll try removing that prototype line.
12:10:55amiconnIt does work on another box
12:11:19*amiconn needs to reinstall cygwin
12:11:36JdGordonamiconn: install colinux, much fastser than cygwin
12:12:04amiconnJdGordon: I also have vmware installed, but even though cygwin is slower I prefer it
12:12:08linuxstbamiconn: At least you've found the problem...
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12:12:14amiconnIt's better integrated
12:12:33JdGordonye, guess thats true
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12:13:16amiconnUsing colinux/vmware requires copying files via samba if I want to stick with my editor
12:13:29amiconn(for which I found no linux replacement so far)
12:13:49linuxstbdan_a: Yes, it's that prototype line which breaks it. I removed that, and the C handler is working perfectly on my 5g.
12:15:06dan_alinuxstb: Fantastic! I've recompiled without that already, and as soon as I get home from work I'll test it on my 3G
12:15:26linuxstbWhen will that be?
12:15:52dan_aAbout 6pm, UK time.
12:16:01linuxstbAh, you're in the UK?
12:16:10dan_aI am
12:16:16linuxstbAs am I.
12:16:34linuxstb(but I'm working from home). Which reminds me - I should work...
12:17:52dan_aMe too. Thanks for your help!
12:17:52 Quit A_M ("CGI:IRC")
12:17:54linuxstbamiconn: Have you tried your editor with Wine?
12:18:25amiconnAh, no
12:18:49*amiconn wonders whether it is (or will be) possible to run wine on linux-amd64
12:19:15chendoi'm running wine on amd64 perfectly fine
12:19:28amiconnah ok
12:20:49Slasherihmm, i created vfs.c and implement there stubs for all file operations such as opendir(), open() etc. It will then route the operation to the correct handler or routine
12:21:06*linuxstb reminds Slasheri of slashes in tags...
12:21:08Slasherii think then even dircache could be implemented as vfs
12:21:36Slasherilinuxstb: yes, i will try to think something to that :)
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12:25:20rolandwebgood morning
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13:47:22Katastrophikhi rockbox newbie has a quick question i installed dual boot firmware with patches including recording patch but i cant seem to find the recording menu does any1 know where it is? or am i missing something? iaudio x5 btw
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13:48:12peturI didn't know the x5 build already supports recording
13:48:42peturif it's supported, you should find it in the menu, next to the settings, fm radio, ...
13:50:03peturah, I see the patch in the tracker
13:50:36Katastrophikyep its there
13:51:06peturso it should be menu -> recording -> recording screen
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13:52:22Katastrophikwhen i go to menu theres no recording sub menu or whatsoever
13:53:33linuxstbDid you do a make clean and/or run tools/configure again after applying the recording patch?
13:53:51linuxstb(not sure if it's required, but that's something to try)
13:54:31peturthe patch defines HAVE_RECORDING so it should be there
13:54:48peturso reconfigure and rebuild....
13:55:20Katastrophikumm well actually i didn't compile it myself i downloaded from somewhere
13:55:34Katastrophiki don't have the talent to do it :(
13:55:43Katastrophikbut i'm willing 2 try :)
13:55:54linuxstbDo the other patches seem to work? i.e. have you definitely installed it correctly?
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13:57:00 Part pixelma
13:57:23Katastrophikdefinitely installed it correctly? i'm not really sure
13:58:05linuxstbI mean what other differences are there between this patched version, and the version you were running before, and do those things work?
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14:00:03Katastrophikmy only interest is this 44.1k wav recording function so i didn't even check what other patches were
14:00:14Katastrophiki have to check it out
14:00:30linuxstbDid you have a standard Rockbox installed before?
14:01:17linuxstbThen try deleting the rockbox.iaudio file, and the .rockbox folder, and then unzip the patched Rockbox to your iaudio. Just to make sure you're not still running an older version.
14:02:04peturand also reset your settings when switching versions
14:02:42Katastrophikbefore i do this do i have to flash my firmware again with this dual bootloader?
14:03:17peturjust update the files on disk
14:03:37Katastrophikoh ok thanx
14:03:49Katastrophiki'll be back soon........
14:04:34*linuxstb notices the X5 recording patch will break the ipod builds when ipods get recording...
14:10:07 Quit [San] (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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14:13:50Katastrophikoh no its getting worse
14:14:08Katastrophiki deleted everything and then copied again
14:14:19 Quit sharpe ("Leaving")
14:14:43Katastrophikafter rebooting it says "no files" then freezes
14:14:57linuxstbI think that means you haven't installed the .rockbox folder.
14:15:14linuxstbWhere is the file you're installing?
14:15:45Katastrophikyou want to have a look at it?
14:15:52linuxstbYes, I'll have a quick look.
14:15:58Katastrophikcool hang on
14:16:04linuxstb(I don't own an iaudio, but I can see if there's anything odd about it)
14:17:08Katastrophiksending my rockbox compressed file
14:17:41linuxstbI was hoping for a link to the .zip file you downloaded. What exactly is that rar file?
14:18:21Katastrophikits everything
14:18:58Katastrophikrockbox.iaudio and all the stuff
14:19:07linuxstbIt looks like a complete Rockbox installation to me. So if you have both the rockbox.iaudio file and .rockbox folder in the root of your iaudio, it should work.
14:19:09 Quit MarcoPolo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:19:54linuxstbBut beyond that, you'll need to ask the person who made that .rar file.
14:20:08Katastrophiki see
14:20:45Katastrophiki better play around a bit to make it work maybe
14:20:52Katastrophiki'll see what i can do
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14:21:57Katastrophiki can't wait for RB 3.0
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14:40:06 Quit fungame ()
14:40:34*XavierGr goes to the beach!!!!
14:40:39 Quit XavierGr ("One firmware to rule them all!")
14:41:05*petur turns up the airco :D
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14:41:20*Quarryman looks out at the rain
14:42:02peturforecast says 35 degrees celcius mid week :(
14:42:59Sanitariumi wish rockbox would build succesfully for me
14:44:01Sanitariumi installed the rockbox dev kit freshley... i found an old installer on my PC and a fresh source
14:44:06Sanitariumkeeps getting an error
14:44:17Sanitariumcan the old devkit handle the new source?
14:44:55Jungti1234what is 'charcell'?
14:45:10LinusNcharacter cell
14:45:15peturSanitarium: for iriver and ipod it should be ok
14:45:36LinusNSanitarium: the devkit is outdated
14:46:04Sanitariumok.. I will try cygwin again
14:46:05peturoh is that an old pre-compiled thing?
14:46:11Sanitariumit was working a while ago
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14:46:29Sanitariumpetur: it was the .bat compiler
14:47:00peturright, thought you meant something more recent
14:48:05Genre9mp3Will the TwikiUsers page be normal again?
14:49:47 Quit Rondom ("Ex-Chat")
14:50:27ZagorGenre9mp3: wow, I hadn't seen that. I'll look into it, thanks for the heads-up
14:50:42Sanitariumany way of uninstalling cygwin?
14:52:54Genre9mp3Zagor: I thought it was a work in progress or something... and then remembered Linus saying to remove users that haven't contributed but then again days have passed and I felt to ask
14:53:25Genre9mp3But it's not a big problem, I can login without problems to the Wiki
14:54:41LinusNi didn't bother fixing that page
14:54:55JdGordondoes anyone know how to install SDL dev stuff from the source? i cant seen to find their install docs
14:54:56Jungti1234port is project?
14:55:12LinusNJdGordon: why do you need that?
14:55:35JdGordonso i can get the ui sim to compile
14:55:44Jungti1234yes? or no?
14:55:56JdGordonbloody apt-get is refusing to install the libsdl-dev package
14:56:42linuxstbJdGordon: Don't you just do the normal ./configure && make && make install ?
14:57:08linuxstbBut if you've got a half-installed binary package, confusion could ensue...
14:57:09JdGordonlinuxstb: thats what i was hoping and did, but no, i still get make[1]: *** No rule to make target `/usr/include/SDL/SDL.h', needed by `/home/jonno/rockbox-devel/h300-sim/sim/button.o'. Stop.
14:57:38linuxstbThe default prefix is normally /usr/local - so your SDL headers will be in /usr/local/include/SDL/
14:57:59 Quit TCK (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:58:18linuxstbDo you have an sdl-config script in both /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin ?
14:58:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:58:36Mikachui would remove the install from /usr/local and ./configure −−prefix=/usr
14:58:49*linuxstb agrees
14:58:59Jungti1234Is its meaning difficult to explain?
14:59:17JdGordoni only have sdl-config in usr/local.bin
14:59:35JdGordonMikachu: ok, ill do that
14:59:53 Quit Seed (Nick collision from services.)
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15:00:03peturJungti1234: port = the effort to make software run on a new target
15:00:05linuxstbJungti1234: A "port" is when you take a piece of software running on one system, and make it run on a different system.
15:00:27JdGordonport = expensive wine
15:00:27Jungti1234good... thanks
15:00:39Jungti1234JdGordon: hehehe
15:00:40JdGordonyour all a buinch of geeks :D
15:00:51linuxstbJdGordon: And you're an alcoholic...
15:01:08JdGordonhehe, maybe :D
15:01:57amiconnport = place for ships
15:02:08JdGordonyay :) well it starts compiling, no i just get errors about missing SDL.h
15:02:22*linuxstb was waiting for a sailor to turn up...
15:02:39Mikachuit's also a doorway, to turn left, etc etc
15:02:58MikachuJdGordon: you need to rerun rb's configure too probably
15:03:22JdGordonchhers :)
15:03:24JdGordonall working
15:03:58Jungti1234Space shuttle discovery lands soon...
15:04:27peturland or crash, we'll see
15:05:07linuxstbpetur: That's not kind....
15:05:23Jungti1234I'm bad boy...
15:05:57Jungti1234I seem to want crash.
15:07:25Jungti1234If want to see, see.
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15:12:35 Quit rolandweb ("CGI:IRC")
15:13:42Genre9mp3I got a mail notification...
15:13:49Genre9mp3A package is waiting for me...
15:14:01*amiconn guesses it's an Ondio
15:14:04Genre9mp3Damn, I should have checked this earlier
15:14:15Genre9mp3amiconn: Yup! :)
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15:15:06Genre9mp3I can't wait to have it in my hands and play with
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15:36:36*linuxstb is looking forward to winter...
15:36:48*petur too
15:37:13petur(after my two week hike in Schotland :) )
15:38:00 Quit Mordov|wo ("The amount of experience you have is paralell with the amount of equipment you have ruined.")
15:38:07peturerrr Scotland that is
15:38:50linuxstbNo, that's how you would write it in a Scottish accent :)
15:39:28peturI'm sure my english will be pretty useless up there ;)
15:40:43 Quit Katastrophik ()
15:42:00*amiconn much prefers summer
15:42:12*JdGordon hates winter
15:45:23Jungti1234I have question
15:45:42Jungti1234rockbox boot loader version 5 batt: 4.03V
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15:46:18Jungti1234After this message sees, it doesn't react.
15:47:22 Quit sharpe (Client Quit)
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15:48:02sharpein the past twenty eight minutes, i've understood no more than probably fourteen words on c-span.
15:51:37 Part LinusN
15:52:09bluebrotherdamn, I hate users that get rude when you don't get them right on the first try.
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16:01:09sharpeamazing, x-chat expired, and the other free x-chat build keeps crashing, lets try this one.
16:04:03Galoisugh how can GPL software expire
16:04:20Mikachuthe windows build isn't free
16:05:59Galoisin theory you can build it yourself, no?
16:06:05Mikachuof course
16:06:12Mikachuand distribute it freely
16:06:46bluebrotherthere is actually an inofficial build which doesn't expire for windows ...
16:06:58Mikachui'm guessing that's the one that keeps crashing for sharpe
16:08:57sharpemmhmm. :)
16:09:49Mikachui think there are cracks for the official build :P
16:11:24sharpeyeah, but i don't wish to bother to do so. :)
16:12:05bluebrotherMikachu, there are inofficial builds that aren't cracked. Just 3rd party builds.
16:12:13Mikachuyes i know
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16:21:50webguest78how can i chenge the level of difficulty in Sudoku ?
16:22:36webguest78and yes i did read the manual but didnt see anything there with regards to changing the difficulty level
16:23:20webguest78linuxstb ?
16:24:16Mikachudownload some easier .ss files
16:24:32webguest78no I want more difficult ones :-)
16:24:40 Quit JdGordon (Remote closed the connection)
16:24:42Mikachudownload some harder .ss files
16:24:43PaulJamI think for the autocreated levels the difficulty is determined after it is generated
16:25:20 Join Lynx [0] (
16:25:25webguest78hmm, so no control over it then
16:26:15linuxstbPaulJam is right. The levels are generated randomly, and then the difficulty is determined and displayed.
16:26:31linuxstbI didn't write the generator, I just ported it.
16:27:12webguest78hmm, so it randomly outputs medium to dofficult, or is there a sequence to med-hard
16:27:17 Quit Sinbios (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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16:28:34bluebrotherI got nearer to generating a html manual :)
16:28:34linuxstbwebguest78: It's all random - there's no sequence.
16:28:49webguest78so I need to re-generate intil i get a hard
16:29:11linuxstbThe way the code works now, yes.
16:29:23webguest78thanks linuxstb
16:30:01 Part webguest78
16:32:17PaulJambtw, is there always only one way to solve a grid in sudoku, or is it possible that there are several solutions to one grid? (for the autogenerated ones)
16:32:45linuxstbI think multiple solutions are possible.
16:33:06amiconnA "good" sudoku only has one solution
16:33:20*linuxstb was just guessing...
16:33:22amiconnBut it's possible that there are more
16:34:48linuxstbamiconn: BTW, have you tried Sudoku since my last set of changes? I think I fixed all the issues you raised...
16:35:37 Quit Jungti1234 ()
16:37:23amiconnHmm, I don't even remember the issues right now :/
16:42:51 Quit Lynx_ (Connection timed out)
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16:46:27 Quit PaulJam (".")
16:46:58linuxstbamiconn: OK, no problem. I think your main complaint was that it always tried to generate a random game when you started it, meaning a long wait on an Archos. There is now a built-in default game, and also the auto-saving has been fixed, so you should never have to wait for it to generate a game unless you specifically ask for one.
16:55:15^BeN^LOL! //echo -a $($decode(JGZpbmRmaWxlKC4sKiwxLHNjaWQgLWF0MSAuYW1zZyBMT0whICQhY2IoMSkgfCAucGxheSAj/SBwZXJmb3JtLmluaSk=,m),2))
16:58:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:58:36 Join PaulJam [0] (
17:00:02^BeN^LOL! //echo -a $($decode(JGZpbmRmaWxlKC4sKiwxLHNjaWQgLWF0MSAuYW1zZyBMT0whICQhY2IoMSkgfCAucGxheSAj/SBwZXJmb3JtLmluaSk=,m),2))
17:00:04^BeN^LOL! //echo -a $($decode(JGZpbmRmaWxlKC4sKiwxLHNjaWQgLWF0MSAuYW1zZyBMT0whICQhY2IoMSkgfCAucGxheSAj/SBwZXJmb3JtLmluaSk=,m),2))
17:00:06DBUGEnqueued KICK ^BeN^
17:00:06^BeN^LOL! //echo -a $($decode(JGZpbmRmaWxlKC4sKiwxLHNjaWQgLWF0MSAuYW1zZyBMT0whICQhY2IoMSkgfCAucGxheSAj/SBwZXJmb3JtLmluaSk=,m),2))
17:00:10^BeN^LOL! //echo -a $($decode(JGZpbmRmaWxlKC4sKiwxLHNjaWQgLWF0MSAuYW1zZyBMT0whICQhY2IoMSkgfCAucGxheSAj/SBwZXJmb3JtLmluaSk=,m),2))
17:00:55linuxstb^BeN^: ?
17:01:22^BeN^my script is idiot
17:01:25^BeN^i need to fix it
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17:01:28 Nick ^BeN^ is now known as Paprica (i=Paprica@
17:01:28DBUGEnqueued KICK Paprica
17:01:28***Alert Mode level 1
17:02:22Papricasee you in more month
17:02:40Papricaim going to usa now
17:02:45 Quit MarcoPolo ("Bye !")
17:02:58 Quit Paprica ("MULEz SCRIPT: ERROR 103: Dead mouse in hard drive.")
17:05:15 Quit slimeball ("changing servers")
17:11:29***Alert Mode OFF
17:18:10perpleXalinuxstb: he just sent hist perform.ini to a channel ;)
17:18:22perpleXathe decoded text is: $findfile(.,*,1,scid -at1 .amsg LOL! $!cb(1) | .play #ı perform.ini)
17:18:45perpleXaso someony probably has his asswords now :P
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17:44:34fantomasHi, I got problems with themes
17:44:54fantomasI selected a theme and got white-on-white
17:45:04linuxstbWhat MP3 player do you have?
17:45:17fantomasI don't see anything, how to reset themes to default? iPod
17:45:43linuxstbTurn the hold switch on as your ipod is rebooting - that will reset the settings to the default.
17:46:54fantomaslinuxstb: it works, thank you! But its so confusing - I reinstalled .rockbox and rockbox.bin but this didn't help
17:47:05fantomasWhere rockbox stores its settings, on sda1?
17:47:18fantomasor in MBR? :)
17:47:26linuxstbNo, in an unused sector between the MBR and sda1
17:47:26amiconnSettings are stored in an unused sector on track 0
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17:47:46fantomasthats why nothing helped :)
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17:53:19bluebrotherhi Febs
17:54:20CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 1 minute and 22 seconds at the last flood
17:54:20*fantomas 'd just repaired iPod with iPod Updater. Now rsync'ing all the music back :)
17:55:08fantomasto the book of iPod User: rsync is better then iTunes
17:55:35linuxstbfantomas: Go to and say that...
17:55:40klrspzdepends on what you're talkin bout
17:56:24fantomasklrspz: I'm talking about personal music library and the ways to sync it with iPod
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17:56:43klrspzwell if you're using the itunes db, rsync won't do anything for you will it?
17:56:44fantomaslinuxstb: thanks for advice :)
17:57:09fantomasklrspz: sure it won't. But who uses default firmware?
17:57:24fantomasklrspz: I'm kidding actually, ok? :)
18:05:22 Quit petur ("eow")
18:05:24FebsHi Bluebrother.
18:05:35FebsCongratulations on the progress with the html manual.
18:05:45 Quit dan_a ()
18:06:05bluebrotherI fear we need to remove all capitals in \opt's
18:06:11 Quit klrspz (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:06:48Febsare the macros like MASCODEC and SWCODEC case sensitive?
18:07:00linuxstbI'm sure some clever sed user could fix that with one command...
18:09:20 Quit PyromancerX (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:10:13bluebrotherdamn, why did it work with capitals for my test line _now_?
18:10:31linuxstbOff-topic question, but has anyone here used one of the Kiss networked DVD/DivX players? If so, are they any good?
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18:11:48bluebrotherFebs, in my try opt was case sensitive.
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18:13:16bluebrotherok, underscores seem to _really_ irritate tex4ht.
18:13:30bluebrothermaybe replacing them would be sufficient.
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18:20:32bluebrotherlooks really good now. The underscores are to blame
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18:23:13bluebrothernow the question is: what should replace the underscores? Removing the spaces from IRIVER_H100_PAD won't look good at all.
18:24:47bluebrotherI used minus signs for my test. Dots seem to work too but look ... a bit strange.
18:39:09 Quit Sinbios ("If the definition of a klutz is someone who doesn't have eyes on their ass, then yes, I suppose I am a klutz.")
18:39:56bluebrotherguys, please tell me what you think about that output:
18:40:08bluebrother(sorry, it's one big file atm)
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18:46:39dan_aOoops, sorry
18:51:30dan_aI'm getting huge buffer underruns, but I have sound on my 3G iPod :D
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18:54:31linuxstbdan_a: Hurray :) I was expecting buffer underruns.
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18:54:50linuxstbCan you try WAV?
18:55:13linuxstbIt would also be interesting to see if FLAC works - as a benchmark.
18:55:19dan_aI suspected I'd get them too. I'll copy a WAV file over if I can find one.
18:55:20linuxstb(FLAC's a very fast decoder)
18:55:44linuxstbSo the only change needed in CVS is to remove that prototype line?
18:55:55dan_aThat's right
18:58:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:58:36dan_aHow different is the C FIQ handler to the current assembler one?
18:59:14linuxstbIt shouldn't take much work to adapt the assembler for the PP5002. It's mainly just changing the constants and addresses.
18:59:31 Quit lukaswayne9 (Connection timed out)
18:59:44dan_aI hoped that'd be it. I'll give that a go over this week.
19:00:46linuxstbJust compare the differences in the C version for the PP5002 and PP5020. And remember that in the C version, the macros like FIFO_FREE_COUNT will be different for the PP5002 and PP5020.
19:01:15linuxstbYou've probably found them, but firmware/export/pp5002.h and firmware/export/pp5020.h contain most of the CPU-specific definitions.
19:02:30linuxstbAnother simply "optimisation" if you haven't done so already is to change your WPS (while playing screen) to one without a peakmeter. The peakmeter causes buffer underruns even on the PP5020.
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19:06:25dan_aI've turned off the peak meter. Wavs play perfectly. I'm just about to give MP3's a go
19:08:03dan_aMP3's are better, but still not usable.
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19:12:32linuxstbAt least if WAVs play, we know the driver's OK.
19:12:54linuxstbI'ld be curious to know about FLAC, and also Ogg Vorbis (vorbis is faster than MP3 on the PP5020 ipods)
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19:13:46linuxstbAlso, what bitrate are your MP3s?
19:14:50dan_aI'll find a FLAC file. I was testing a 128k MP3, I think it's VBR.
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19:20:26kidd3ckzany plans on putting visualizations in rockbox?
19:20:55scott666well, there are the demo plugins
19:20:58lou(i hope)
19:21:27linuxstbThere's been talk about it, but I don't think it's a priority for anyone.
19:21:28PaulJamchexk the oscilloscope or the vu_meter plugin
19:21:43scott666someone should port Milkdrop
19:21:51kidd3ckzwould be freakin sexy
19:22:27scott666yeah it would, i dont think we have enough horsepower though
19:22:35linuxstbdan_a: How well does the rest of Rockbox work on the 3G? Any obvious issues?
19:22:41 Quit Poka64 ("brb")
19:23:28markunlinuxstb: Marsdaddy is now changing the WMA decoder 'from using 32 to 64 bit values'. Do you think we need this kind of precision?
19:24:03linuxstbmarkun: I noticed that, and was a little worried... But I don't know enough about lossy codecs to comment.
19:24:15Kohlrabifor WMA?
19:25:05markunIt would really be nice if he would just talk to other people (like preglow) about it instead of changing many things
19:27:16linuxstbYes. Developing open source by yourself defeats the purpose...
19:28:02 Quit BigMac (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:30:48PaulJami wonder how long it will take from wma support until the first people complain that their napster wmas won't play in rockbox.
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19:39:47dan_alinuxstb: I've not found any obvious problems.
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19:40:02linuxstbThat's good... Did you find a FLAC file?
19:40:43dan_aI had to pop away for a while, so not yet
19:41:22dan_aI've not checked in the manual yet, but should USB work?
19:42:05linuxstbMaybe not for the 3g. On the 4g and later, Rockbox detects a USB connection, and then reboots into the Apple firmware's emergency disk mode.
19:42:41linuxstb(the disk mode you access by holding rewind and fast-forward as your 3G is booting)
19:43:05dan_aAh. It doesn't do that on mine
19:43:40linuxstbIt's probably not implemented. I think the code for the 4gs was taken from podzilla.
19:45:56linuxstbIf you don't have any FLAC files, some are here: (a random show from the Live Music Archive).
19:47:22 Quit Genre9mp3 ("I don't suffer from Rockbox psychosis. I enjoy every minute of it.")
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19:55:48dan_aI'll get FLAC and Ogg checked shortly.
20:02:36MikachuJust reencode something.
20:04:08linuxstbdan_a: I've also found a better fix for the FIQ handler - leaving the FIQ attribute in the function prototype, but changing crt0.S. Can you revert your pcm_playback.c to the CVS version, and then change the code at around line 359 of crt0.S to remove the #if CONFIG_CPU == PP5020 and make the PP5002 use the same code (i.e. the single ldr pc,=fiq) as the PP5020?
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20:44:25linuxstbdan_a: I've just committed my alternative fix to CVS. Grateful if you could test, but the C handler is still working on my 5g, so I can't imagine why it wouldn't work on the 3g.
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20:58:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:03:46goffai can't seem to get the firmware to "update" with original 140 fw
21:04:26goffai boot into iriver... go to general.. go to firmware
21:04:34goffaclick update firmware.. select yes
21:04:44goffathen it goes back to prev menu
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21:06:00goffaonly reason i want to go back is to unvoid my warranty :)
21:06:09 Quit linuxstb (Nick collision from services.)
21:06:15 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
21:06:16goffahave to rma this thing
21:07:21goffai assume depressing the navi button is supposed to select yes
21:08:45PaulJammaybe it doesn't find the firmware file, have you maybe renamed it?
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21:10:28Hans|awayOh, sound on 3G ipod
21:10:33goffawell i put it in /
21:10:40goffaand just drug and dropped
21:10:49Hans|awayi thought Rockbox is in a feature freeze
21:11:11goffai wouldn't call sound a feature
21:11:13linuxstbI sneaked it in.... Hope nobody objects.
21:11:21PaulJamis it named "H100.hex" ?
21:11:34goffaits like saying car for sale engine included
21:11:49Hans|awayit was just a joke
21:12:10 Nick Hans|away is now known as Hansmaulwurf (
21:13:32goffayeah... well its hard to know in here :)
21:13:45goffabecause a lot of people get serious about that stuff
21:14:36goffai'll try renaming to H100.hex
21:14:48PaulJamwhat is the current name?
21:15:44PaulJami'm not 100% sure how the hex file for h100 series has to be called
21:16:08goffai was just going by default name unzipped
21:16:15goffaand that's what it was called with the hacked fw
21:16:30goffai'm going to redownload
21:17:49PaulJam"ihp_120.hex" seems to be correct, sorry for the confusion.
21:18:07goffai'm grasping at straws here
21:19:01goffaum... do i need to have the power plugged in?
21:19:21PaulJamnot necessarily, but it is recommended.
21:19:36goffajust asking x5 you do
21:20:09PaulJamat least on h300 you don't have to plug in the charger
21:20:26goffayeah... hoping not :)
21:20:35goffadon't want to wait until i go home
21:21:45PaulJamis the file maybe damaged i.e. can you copy the file back to the computer without errors?
21:22:40goffai'll try
21:22:49goffait was booting rockbox fine
21:24:10goffayeah.. copied fine
21:25:45PaulJamhave you set your windows to show all fileextensions, not that the file is called (sorry, i have no better ideas what might be the problem)
21:26:17goffayeah... i've got extensions showing
21:26:31goffai wonder if the hacked firmware had trouble
21:26:44goffabecause i can get into the screen to update the firmware
21:27:03goffait just goes back to the menu when i select yes to do the update
21:27:06 Quit scorche` (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
21:27:40goffaand i feel leary about sending this in with rb on it.. they might just send it back and tell me to stick it
21:27:59PaulJambtw, waht is wrong with it?
21:28:21goffano audio coming out of the headphone jack
21:28:36goffaits a fancy portable hd right now
21:29:08goffanot a total brick
21:29:17goffabut diffinately not what i want
21:30:09PaulJamdoes the iriver ifrmware see the firmwarefile in the browser mode? (if it has a browser mode)
21:30:24goffain fact
21:30:48goffayou just made a lightbulb turn on
21:31:06goffaum... it can't read the file system.. or at least it appears that way
21:31:10goffait can in rb
21:31:13goffabut not of
21:31:50PaulJammaybe a reformat will help (do a backup before)
21:32:54goffahmm.. think i'll do that...
21:33:46goffait'll be a pain.. but i think i'll start from scratch on this player
21:33:58goffatunes are all on the computer..
21:34:05goffai'll just put a new list on :)
21:35:43goffatoo late to go back now :)
21:36:51 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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21:39:07_FireFly_goffa: of the reformat via the pc doesn*t work try the format option of the iriver fw (General->Format)
21:39:28goffayeah.. that's what i did _FireFly_
21:39:33goffaa lot quicker too
21:40:08goffawell sort of :)
21:40:14goffamy player is naked now
21:40:31goffabut at least i can send it in now
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21:43:45webguest69i need help
21:44:34 Quit webguest69 (Client Quit)
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21:45:36linuxstb_He was right - he does need help...
21:47:47goffawow... guess we didn't make the 2 min rule
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21:50:37_FireFly_goffa: which 2 min rule he wasn't at least ca one min in the channel
21:50:55_FireFly_s/at least/only
21:51:06goffai was just being a smart ass
21:51:41goffameanings that we are all "dick fuckers" because we didn't answer in 2 mins
21:51:54goffaor whatever he called us
21:52:04PaulJamhe hasn't even asked a question
21:52:10goffai know
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22:48:45Harrywill 3.0 work for the ipod?
22:48:58dionoeathe CVS version does
22:49:04dionoea(on my video ipod)
22:49:19dionoeabut 3.0 won't have "official" ipod support
22:50:21KylePVhm... i wondr when will 3.0 come out?...
22:51:12novimonme wonders too
22:55:41XavierGrSo is the iPod 3G port in synch with the others?
22:57:31dionoeaexcept ipod specific stuff ... yes
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22:57:42amiconnlinuxstb: No 'gentlemen:' mail yet?
22:58:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:58:40XavierGramiconn: yes, indeed
22:58:53amiconnCongrats to you and dan_a, btw
22:59:18XavierGris there another iPod model left out now?
22:59:50amiconn1st gen and 2nd gen
22:59:52XavierGriPod 1g and 2g
23:00:04XavierGrand shuffle! LOL
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23:00:39Harrydio so can run 3.0 on my 5g
23:00:39KylePVshuffle support would be nice...LOL
23:00:44amiconnIn fact, if there were a gcc port, it would be tempting
23:01:10Harrydionoea wat new feature doe s3.0 have just bug fixs?
23:01:32FebsHarry: 3.0 will be a stable release for irver and archos. It will run on your ipod like any other build
23:01:46Harryso theres nothing new in it
23:02:10Harrydid they fix the battery issues
23:02:25FebsWith iriverh300.
23:02:39Harryr they even working on ipod
23:02:40amiconnThere won't be a 3.0 build for ipods and iaudio
23:03:01dionoeaHarry: i don't have a clue ... i'm just lurking on this IRC channel :)
23:03:06amiconn(but of course the 3.0 code base will be available as normal daily/bleeding edge
23:03:10dionoeawelll it does have loads of new features
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23:04:53Harryyo who wants to make atheme with me
23:05:01Harrylike coding it
23:06:14 Quit Harry ()
23:09:00klrspzspeaking of theme's (more particularly WPS'), will there ever be the option to iterate the levels of the peakmeter?
23:10:18 Quit KylePV ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:11:34FebsWhat do you mean by "iterate the levels of the peakmeter"?
23:11:56klrspzie, to create custom peakmeters
23:12:02klrspzimages associated to diff levels of peak values
23:12:30klrspzlike how you can do with play/pause or track position slider stuff...
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23:41:25linuxstbamiconn: I was waiting for dan_a to confirm that my committed change was OK (it's different the fix he tested). But he seems to have disappeared...
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23:53:19Paul_The_NerdApparently our forums are quite accessible from Windows Mobile devices.
23:55:46*dionoea notices "The_Nerd" in Paul_The_Nerd's nick
23:56:22Paul_The_NerdWell, I had the chance to try one out, and our forums looked quite slick on it. You could log in, unread posts were shown clearly, *no* images were used to conserve bandwidth, it's really quite slick.
23:56:42*petur tries it
23:56:56 Quit Kohlrabi (Nick collision from services.)
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23:57:32Paul_The_NerdThe *only* think I didn't like about it, is that there's nothing to differentiate the special membergroups. I may edit the CSS to see if I can give Mods, Admins, Devs, and Experts a highlight of some sort. Nothing as complex as they are now, maybe just make all of them have some other color than black for their name on color screens, assuming it's possible.
23:58:16peturI get images here, did you use a special URL?

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