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#rockbox log for 2006-07-18;wap2 is what my browser defaulted to when I pointed at
00:00:39 Quit YouCeyE (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:00:40peturnot here
00:00:44 Quit klrspz ()
00:00:56peturanyways, I don't use my pda to surf the web
00:01:03 Join YouCeyE [0] (n=YouCeyE@unaffiliated/youceye)
00:01:44Paul_The_NerdWell, this was a smartphone so, it may pick a different profile.
00:02:13peturheh, the url you gave is indeed very browsable
00:03:03peturseems to be read-only
00:03:16Paul_The_NerdI posted a few responses through it.
00:03:47XavierGrwow you managed to post something through a mobile phone?
00:03:58Paul_The_NerdThree or four posts, yeah.
00:03:59XavierGrI nearly can't right an SMS easily
00:04:25peturI just get text links for the subforums and posts, no linkt to login of post. Maybe the url you gave is that of a subframe?
00:04:37Paul_The_Nerdpetur: The login link is only on the main forum screen.
00:04:55Paul_The_NerdThe front page of it all
00:06:44peturah well, that gives the icon version again. But nevermind, I have no need for this ;)
00:07:21Paul_The_NerdWell, my phone died, so I finally sprung for a smartphone, since my old HP PDA died, and decided to try it out.
00:07:32Paul_The_NerdAnyway, I now have to leave.
00:07:33 Part Paul_The_Nerd
00:22:16 Quit ender` (" cd /pub && get beer")
00:25:12 Quit Nico_P ()
00:33:27 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
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00:38:02webguest24I am having trouble decideing on the bootloader I should choose
00:38:12webguest24I have an Iaudio X5l
00:38:44webguest24and if I download Iaudio x5 bootloader will it make my battery have less life or something?
00:41:57peturI think battery life got better recently, don't know how it compares to retail os
00:45:46webguest24the X5l has like 30 hours of battery supossedly
00:45:55webguest24compared to the x5's like 14
00:46:05 Quit lightyear (Remote closed the connection)
00:46:47peturI don't think there's any firmware difference between x5 and x5L, just a bigger battery
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00:58:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:59:19peturamiconn: you remember this: ?
01:01:17amiconnAges ago...
01:01:29*amiconn doesn't read the forums often nowadays
01:01:37 Join borges__ [0] (
01:02:24amiconnToo much jabber
01:03:16peturwell, certainly in the ipod subforums :)
01:04:46webguest24I'm all for Iaudio
01:05:03 Nick webguest24 is now known as DeathDesigns (
01:05:07DeathDesignsyou know
01:05:20DeathDesignsrockbox is cooler in my opionin
01:05:23DeathDesignsnot as pretty
01:05:28peturDeathDesigns: running rockbox already?
01:05:37DeathDesignsand the Iaudio has trouble handling it
01:05:48 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
01:05:51DeathDesignsyou can lister to music and look at pics
01:06:04DeathDesignsand you can zoom in like 130%+ more
01:06:21DeathDesignsima go watch king of the hill =p
01:06:50 Join alphakiller [0] (n=bohas@
01:08:30peturfat_checkname() needs a real filter to prevent invalid filenames, or do we implement it on a higher level (maybe make the vkeyboard aware it's editing a filename)?
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01:20:28 Quit borges_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:29:20 Quit Criamos ("( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )")
01:30:32 Quit petur ("here today, gone tomorrow")
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01:33:49 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC")
01:58:24 Quit DeathDesigns ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:59:55 Quit PaulJam (".")
02:07:14dan_aiPod 3g status (using the latest CVS with no changes): mp3s play with buffer underruns. Wavs play correctly. Flac files may cause crashes, or it may just be the one I tested.
02:07:30 Quit dan_a ()
02:08:33amiconnlinuxstb: What's the boost frequency for PP5002? If it's the same as for PP5020 we should probably increase it a bit
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02:58:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:04:01 Quit MrStaticVoid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:13:22 Quit XavierGr ("One firmware to rule them all!")
03:20:52JdGordondoes anyone know if the vmware devkit has sdl installed?
03:20:58hardeepyes it does
03:21:06JdGordonso it can build the ui sim?
03:21:16JdGordona great :)
03:21:24hardeepsound doesn't work (vmware limitation) but everything else is fine
03:21:28*JdGordon has something to do in his 2 hour lecture today
03:21:55JdGordonte image works with the new free vmware server thingy ye?
03:22:03hardeepno idea
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03:35:28 Nick testuser is now known as hockeyav (
03:39:19hockeyavI'm running iPod Linux, and was wondering if I installed RockBox, would it overwrite my bootloader with it's own, or is there a way to add rockbox to my bootloader
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03:43:11 Quit hockeyav ()
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03:53:15CloFanCan someone help me with a iPod Rockbox problem?
03:54:05 Quit pixelma (" Try HydraIRC -> <-")
03:56:23JdGordonCloFan: your gonna have to just ask the question.. or its gonna stay very quiet in here...
03:58:24CloFanHeh.. alright. Well my problem is that while I'm listening to music, the hard drive is constantly being accessed. This can't be good for battery life, and I'm sure a small jolt will go a long way if it's moving all the time.
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03:59:19JdGordonthere is an option to set how long untill the disk powers down
04:00:32CloFanI have it set to 4s. That is seconds, correct? It definitely keeps spinning after 4 seconds because I can feel it moving in my hand
04:01:09JdGordonwhich ipod?
04:01:20CloFan4G greyscale
04:01:36JdGordonyour not using the patch so its uses 64mb of ram instead of 32 are u?
04:02:00 Quit Genre9mp3 ("I don't suffer from Rockbox psychosis. I enjoy every minute of it.")
04:02:53CloFanI'm not sure.. I followed these instructions exactly: and haven't done anything else to it
04:03:02JdGordonanyway, it just means its taking too long to fill the buffer, so the disk doesnt actually get a chance to spin down. im pretty sure its a know "bug"
04:04:36CloFanOh I see. Does the patch you're talking about fix it, or has the issue not been resolved?
04:06:32JdGordonno, that patch makes it worse :p
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04:49:20KylePVI don't know if this was reported yet but the latest change to CVS that was supposed to fix the tetrox preview area for iPod 5G, produces one still looking odd
04:49:57KylePVThere seems to be a 4*4 block areaontop of the original preview area
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04:58:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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06:00:14midkaylinuxstb: shouldn't Daniel Ankers be put in the credits for getting 3G playback working?
06:16:26 Quit alphakiller ()
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06:31:46mueslimidkay at least he highly deserves it ;)
06:32:06midkaymuesli: agreed. probably just an oversight. :)
06:32:14midkayi get it. very funny.
06:33:22Paul_The_Nerd3G playback is working?
06:33:39midkayfront-page changelog..
06:34:04Paul_The_NerdYeah, I hadn't read that yet.
06:34:21Paul_The_NerdI'm trying to figure out how to get this damnable phone to properly check my email without downloading 880 messages each time.
06:34:59midkaywhich phone?
06:35:59Paul_The_NerdCingular 2125, which is a rebranded something else, though I can't remember what at the moment
06:36:22midkayah. looks nice.
06:37:48Paul_The_NerdWell, I needed a phone that didn't have a hinge. I had three options.
06:38:07Paul_The_NerdOne had iTunes, one cost an obscenely large amount for the fact that it really didn't have anything but shiny buttons, and the third was this one.
06:38:32sharpePaul_The_Nerd: why not the shiny button one?
06:38:33midkayhaha. "had iTunes". how putrid.
06:38:56midkaysharpe, because that was all you got for a lot of money - shiny buttons?
06:38:59Paul_The_Nerdmidkay: Well, Cingular offered an identical phone without iTunes for $150 less, apparently, but it was only available online so I'd have to wait and deal with them over the internet.
06:39:05sharpeshiny stuff is fun.
06:39:27midkaysharpe: gosh, that was such an unexpected, non-cliche statement!
06:39:36Paul_The_NerdBesides, now I can have MP3s as ringtones and be like all the hip kids. Before I had to settle for midis.
06:40:04midkayyou mean "now I can have MP3s as ringtones and be unlike sharpe."
06:40:07*Paul_The_Nerd wonders if this phone supports midis, but highly doubts it.
06:40:17dongswhere the fuck do electronics people hang out on irc
06:40:29sharpemidkay: it may've been expected, but it wasn't a cliché.
06:40:38midkayyou could turn a MIDI into an MP3 or something anyways.
06:40:38BHSPitLappydongs, afk.
06:40:41dongsi need some help programming slave fifo on ezusb fx2
06:40:44sharpemidkay: what do you mean by that?
06:40:57midkaysharpe: nothing you'd understand.
06:41:32sharpeyeah. okay.
06:44:44goffaanyone have a 60gb ipod?
06:44:56goffawhat kind of battery life do they typically get with rb
06:45:42Paul_The_NerdCheck the IpodRuntime page, I think there's times there for 'em
06:47:21goffawow.. not so good
06:48:13midkayaround like 8 hours, right..
06:48:42goffamy x5l is doing much better with the july 13th or so fw on it
06:49:18midkaythat's good..
06:49:24goffah140 needs to be rma'd.. waiting to hear back from iriver..
06:49:32goffathats getting like 20 hours or so
06:50:22dongsBHSPitLappy: waht? make sense plz
06:51:04BHSPitLappythey hang out away from the keyboard
06:51:24midkaydongs: he's telling you to go AFK like we all secretly want.
06:53:23dongsmidkay: im not laughing
06:53:34scorchedongs: i am
06:53:35midkaydongs: i'm not either.
06:53:46midkayi'm, in fact, serious.
06:58:44***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:59:47goffahmm... wonder if h140 is still the best value size/battery life/price wise (don't care about video)
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08:30:22scorchenow that i see some actualy people..
08:31:00scorcheare there any qualms about me removing the last entry in
08:31:48 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
08:31:50scorcheas far as i see...he does nothing but mention ipods in there (although his entry in x5 section is fine)...and his download link foes to the ipod builds
08:32:21JdGordonthat wps page is for ipod tho also
08:32:25JdGordonits just named badly
08:32:36midkay_" iRiver H3x0 & iPod Color/Photo WPS config file gallery"
08:32:43midkay_dummy. :)
08:33:05scorchedont do drugs kids >_<
08:33:34scorchemaybe now would be a good time to stop fixing/cleaning up the wiki...
08:34:11JdGordonalthough shouldnt the wps's on the wiki be required to not need any additional patches?
08:35:14Paul_The_NerdIf we do that, they'll just host the WPS offsite, and never bother to transfer it once it's finally supported.
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08:58:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:13:41Slasherihmm, what is the correct way to read 32-bit timestamp from rtc on units with rtc?
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09:23:09amiconnSlasheri: There's get_time(), which returns a struct tm*
09:23:16amiconnNo 32bit time stamps
09:24:04Slasheriamiconn: ah, hmm. I just think what would be the best way to save the timestamp to the tagcache (last playtime)
09:24:25Slasheriand currently all numeric entries are 32-bit only
09:25:48Slasheriamiconn: anyway, the timestamp needs to be numeric so it can be used as search condition also
09:26:38peturmidkay: [09:16] *** scorche` [] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
09:26:49midkaypetur: −−> scorche ( has joined #rockbox
09:26:53midkaysoon before.
09:27:16midkaymaybe he's not around though.
09:27:22*petur takes second eye also away from web client window
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09:33:20*petur says nothing and takes third eye away from web client window :)
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09:53:01Slasheriamiconn: hmm, what do you think about adding one function to timefuncs.c that just converts the tm to 32-bit value?
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09:54:23ZagorSlasheri: I'm in favor of that. it's usually called time().
09:54:49Slasherithat sounds good then
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09:55:19Slasherishould it return Epoch time or some other rockbox defined timestamp?
09:55:50Zagorwe want to be posix compabile when possible
09:56:26ZagorI suggest looking at and perhaps copying the glibc implementation.
09:56:45Slasheritrue, i will check that soon
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10:26:24pondlifeHi dev-guys...?
10:27:03pondlifeI'm trying to investigate a reproducible crash (on the H300 and H300 sim at least). Details are on
10:27:22pondlifeI keep getting pointers set to a magic value of 0x55555555
10:27:30pondlifeIs this a special value?
10:27:46*midkay steps back into the shadows as unnoticeably as possible.
10:27:53pondlifeI assume unititialised memory?
10:28:03pondlifeinitialised that is...
10:28:06*scorche notices
10:28:18*pondlife had a bicycle accident and can't spell anymore
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10:30:06LinusNpondlife: looks like some kind of buffer overwrite or something
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10:30:44oboSlasheri: I have a mktime() function in my Audioscrobbler patch if you can't find anything better....
10:30:47pondlifeYep, I feared as much
10:31:17pondlifeThe .next entry is never set to that value (assuming GDB is reliable at spotting conditional breakpoints)
10:32:17pondlifeThis may be a long-standing issue, not a new one. But it's reproducible and only happens with DirCache on.
10:32:44pondlifeI'll play with my config file (it seems very config dependent) and see if I can work out any more criteria.
10:33:19pondlifeThe config file attached to #5662 should repro it for anyone else who wants to look... ;-)
10:34:17pondlifeSadly I haven't got much time at the moment as have been off work after aforementioned bicycle accident, so need to catch up on real work for the next day or 2.
10:34:39peturhope it wasn't too bad ?
10:34:46pondlifeNah, mainly teeth lost
10:34:56pondlife2 or 3 of them from the front top
10:35:11pondlife2 now, maybe a 3rd later
10:35:40peturI got lucky some years ago and was only out for some weeks
10:35:50peturbiking can be dangerous
10:36:13peturwere you hit by a car?
10:37:18pondlifeHe turned into me, hit me very slowly, but enough to knock me off.
10:37:27pondlifeNo broken bones, luckily
10:37:48peturI hope they looked after you, when I got hit they first checked their car :/
10:37:48pondlifeJust dentists. I really enjoy dentistry :(
10:38:24pondlifeThey were ok. Seemed in as much shock as me I think. But it's a bit blurry from here.
10:38:54pondlifeI think I broke the bit of my brain that handles C.
10:39:07pondlifeI might only be able to code in Visual Basic from now
10:39:13peturor java :)
10:39:49pondlifeNah. Java would be too exciting.
10:40:45pondlifeAnyways, gotta get on with the day job
10:42:05petursame here
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10:46:21linuxstbamiconn: Do you know how much of an improvement your bit handling optimisations are?
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10:50:47Genre9mp3ok...I have the Ondio now in my hands...
10:51:13Genre9mp3I'm impressed by how tiny and light it is....
10:51:46 Quit synfx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:52:15Genre9mp3Unfortunately it seems that something is going wrong
10:52:39Genre9mp3I put some alkalines, powered it on and now I'm stack in a splash screen
10:53:13Genre9mp3It says Archos Ondio, Ondio SP, OS Version: 1.32b
10:53:20 Join synfx [0] (
10:53:36Genre9mp3The manual says that it should go to the menu
10:53:42Genre9mp3But it does not...
10:54:04synfxum, just to make sure i'm not about to do something bad:
10:54:06synfxC:\Documents and Settings\Tim\Desktop\rockbox-nano>ipod_fw -g nano -o rockboot.bin -i apple_os.bin bootloader-nano.bin
10:54:06synfxGenerating firmware image compatible with iPod mini, 4g and iPod photo/color...
10:54:24Genre9mp3And inserting the USB cable has no effect...
10:54:28Genre9mp3any ideas?
10:55:31Genre9mp3The weird thing is that it doesn't hang, I can shutt it off
10:55:59linuxstbsynfx: Yes, that's fine.
10:56:03Genre9mp3But only thing I get is the splash screen
10:56:31linuxstbGenre9mp3: You haven't installed Rockbox yet then?
10:56:50Genre9mp3No I havent, just got it in my hands
10:57:19linuxstbCan you access it at all via USB? e.g. insert the USB cable first, then boot (I've never used an Ondio...)
10:58:14Genre9mp3linuxstb: That worked, thanx!
10:58:32Genre9mp3I have USB Access...
10:58:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:58:47Genre9mp3My heart went to its original position
10:59:07Genre9mp3Oh, there is a Barry White Track in there
10:59:18synfxlinuxstb: thanks
11:02:51Genre9mp3Hmmmm...the thing is, if I don't have access to the retailOS, how am I supposed to flash it?
11:03:07*Genre9mp3 tries to figure out what's wrong
11:03:23Paul_The_NerdWell, the Retail bootloader should load the file-based version of Rockbox anyway, right?
11:03:48ravonWhere does the X5 stand in terms of speed compared to the other Rockboxified players?
11:04:05scorcheravon: define speed
11:04:21peturravon: it has the same cpu as irivers
11:04:26 Quit dan_a (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:04:27Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: I don't know nothing about Rockbox installation on Archos...I'll start reading
11:04:32ravonscorche: Ability to decode a given format
11:04:45ravonNot optimized for a specific platform.
11:04:47Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: For all practical purposes, it's like an iRiver or iPod *after* the bootloader is installed.
11:05:12Paul_The_NerdAnd Rockbox itself can then flash itself on the Archos targets.
11:05:48Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: I suppose it works like that, but currently I get stuck on retailOS splash screen
11:06:03Genre9mp3and I cannot figure why
11:06:10LinusNravon: the x5 is comparable to the iriver h100 and h300 platforms
11:06:21ravonLinusN: So one could say average?
11:06:36Paul_The_NerdGenre9mp3: Have you extracted Rockbox to the HD and seen what happens? Also, what's it formatted?
11:06:38ravonThanks :)
11:07:27Genre9mp3Paul_The_Nerd: FAT32
11:07:50amiconnlinuxstb: I didn't test the speedup, but there should be some. The block functions became smaller, and there's less stack usage for some of them
11:08:20amiconnGenre9mp3: The internal flash of the Ondio *must* be formatted FAT16 for the retail firmware to work
11:08:36amiconnThis is mentioned in the (original) manual
11:08:39Paul_The_NerdI was about to say "A tiny voice in my head is whispering Fat16, but I don't know where it came from."
11:09:02synfxrockbox works :D
11:09:06amiconnFlash media is almost always formatted FAT16 (except if it's larger than 2GB)
11:09:11synfx(duh, but yay)
11:09:24amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: s/HD/flash/
11:09:35Genre9mp3amiconn: thanx, so this is the reason why retailOS never starts
11:09:56Genre9mp3amiconn: I need retailOS to flash it with Rockbox, right?
11:10:21amiconnRetailos can't flash
11:10:30*Genre9mp3 is surprised!
11:10:31 Quit eGen_ ("mdlo kon ! ... runk kon !")
11:10:49Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: Yeah, I knew it was flash. For some reason I tend to think of something's internal storage as an HD no matter what. It's a *really* bad habit I have.
11:11:08Genre9mp3So I can run Rockbox without actually flash it?
11:11:43amiconnBut I highly recommend flashing rockbox, as it gives 2 benefits
11:11:53amiconn(1) significantly faster boot
11:12:20amiconn(2) You can run rockbox directly from flash ROM, leaving more free RAM for buffering music and other stuff
11:12:58 Quit BHSPitMonkey (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:12:59amiconnThe latter isn't that important on Ondio regarding to runtime (cause there's no spinup), but more RAM is useful in various other situations
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11:14:39*Genre9mp3 should read about Archos Installation
11:15:26Genre9mp3amiconn: I don't plan to use the retailOS, should I format it to FAT16?
11:18:59JdGordonnow that the multi-screen api has been added to the plugin struct, is there any plans to remove all the lcd functions from the plugin strcut to shrink it a bit and to "force" ppl to make use of the remote?
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11:22:44linuxstbJdGordon: That doesn't sound like a 5-minute job... (adjusting all plugins to the multi-screen API)
11:22:53amiconnGenre9mp3: yes
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11:23:29JdGordonno, its not, and im not suggesting it be done in 1 hit, but i just had a look, and nearly 50% of the plugin api is lcd functions which are all in the screens struct
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11:24:25qwmscorche`: get skype
11:24:25JdGordonlinuxstb: actually, with a decent enough script it could be a 5min job, its mostly just adding rb->screens[i]-> infront of the function calls.
11:24:45linuxstbJdGordon: Don't you mean screens[0] ?
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11:24:56amiconnThere's no point in formatting a 128MB flash mem as FAT32, especially not when you store rather large files
11:24:57qwmscorche: get headphones
11:25:20JdGordonlinuxstb: thats only for the main screen.
11:25:42linuxstbExactly. You can't just expect the plugins to work on the remote screen without any effort.
11:25:46Genre9mp3amiconn: I just copied Rockbox files (still FAT32 though) and nothing happens
11:25:48JdGordonand to save typing iv got #define rbs(i) rb->screens[i] coz im lazy :)
11:26:04qwmscorche: having to push a button is such a bother, don't you think?
11:26:21JdGordonlinuxstb: ye, i know, im tihnking long term would it be in the plans?
11:26:22scorchefine...i am getting heaphones
11:26:49amiconnGenre9mp3: Of course not. How should retail load rockbox when it can't read fat32?
11:26:53 Quit Kohlrabi ("Quit")
11:27:45Genre9mp3Oh yes, you mentioned that before...
11:27:49Genre9mp3stupid me!
11:28:10linuxstbJdGordon: I can't think why anyone would be against it...
11:29:12JdGordonafter 3.0 :p
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11:33:44Genre9mp3I now have 2 Rockboxed DAPs! :)
11:33:59 Quit qwm (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:34:50Genre9mp3(not flashed it yet, though)
11:38:08chendoi have personally pimped up 3 DAPs with rockbox
11:38:25Genre9mp3Hmm...the little thing gets warmed easily
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11:39:16*amiconn has 7 rockboxes :)
11:40:35Genre9mp3amiconn: A common wish we make in Greece is: "Hope you make them a hundred" :)
11:41:56Genre9mp3Weird name this ajbrec.ajz file
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11:47:30amiconnGenre9mp3: ajbrec probably stands for Archos JukeBox RECorder
11:47:41amiconn(the first archos using this boot file name)
11:47:49amiconnDunno about the extension
11:48:54amiconnlinuxstb: What's your opinion about a clock increase for PP5002?
11:49:02*amiconn suggests 36 and 90MHz
11:50:34linuxstbAre they rated higher than the PP5020s then?
11:51:00linuxstbI'm not even sure if CPU scaling is enabled for the 3gs yet though...
11:52:38linuxstb(checking the source, no it's not enabled)
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12:04:14amiconnLinusN: PP5002 is specced 90MHz, PP5020 is specced 80MHz, PP5022 is specced 100MHz. Dunno about the PP5021 (no product brief available)
12:04:21amiconnErm, I mean linuxstb
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12:07:26linuxstbamiconn: Increasing the clock would seem sensible - assuming it doesn't generate too much heat.
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12:21:04Mmmmamiconn: long long ago we made a patch for the stop button in the WPS for the Irivers but you didnt commit it. The problem has come up again:
12:21:16Mmmmremember that?
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12:27:48amiconnSomeone already pointed me to that yesterday
12:28:21amiconnI don't think there is a problem now...
12:29:19Mmmmso what is the OP seeing? is he using an old build?
12:30:48amiconnA short press is supposed to stop playback. A (ordinary) long press does nothing afaik
12:31:04*amiconn isn't sure, because he _always_ stops before shutting down
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12:32:37MmmmI thnk some people always do a long press to stop and so nothing least that is what you told me last time! :)
12:38:02SlasheriMmmm: hmm, interesting.. there isn't so long time a go when i fixed that
12:38:07Slasheribut it seems to be broken again
12:38:41MmmmHa Ha...I know, its always changing back and forth....funny eh?
12:39:00MmmmI put the patch in my last post
12:40:07JdGordonwooooot! dark tranquility is coming to aus :D
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12:40:33SlasheriMmmm: actually there was a time where all three type of presses worked
12:40:45Slasherii don't know what has happened to it now
12:41:30Mmmmreally? why did it change? Strange!
12:41:50SlasheriMmmm: so that was the state iv) when it worked and then at state v) it was changed back to state ii)
12:42:40Slasheriprobably some other changes broke it
12:43:09MmmmI didn't think it ever did all three at once.... You mean I missed out a state?
12:43:17MmmmMadness! :D
12:43:54Slasherihehe, yeah :D
12:49:30SlasheriMmmm: i will try to remember fix that soon but can't just yet because tagcache code is in bad state
12:50:20MmmmCan't you just apply that patch?
12:50:44Mmmmor do you think the problem runs deeper?
12:51:19SlasheriHmm, i wonder if there really is a need for two PRE-states.. but i will look into that soon
12:52:04MmmmOK :)
12:55:18SlasheriMmmm: ah, yes.. that seems to be necessary
12:56:13Slasherihmm, what about just (lastbutton & ~BUTTON_REPEAT) != WPS_EXIT_PRE
12:56:20Slasheriwould that do the same thing?
12:57:42Slasherithen no need to add more PREs :)
12:57:57*Genre9mp3 is worried about his Ondio
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12:58:25Genre9mp3It seems that it sucks battery juice more than it should...
12:58:29qwmscorche: the kiosk is based upon a kiosk in my neighborhood. :p
12:58:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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12:59:35Genre9mp3..and it is quite warm I can say... (don't know how worm it should be though)
13:01:04Genre9mp315mins of MP# @ 128Kbps playback it went from 70% to 55% :(
13:04:15amiconnSeems like your Ondio suffers from a problem we already observed with some Ondios
13:04:48Genre9mp3This is exactly what I am afraid of... :(
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13:04:57amiconnFor some reason the main DC-DC converter starts drawing more power than usual, and gets pretty warm
13:05:30amiconnWe used to think that the LT3440 chip sorta breaks, but this doesn't seem to be the (only?) problem
13:06:07Genre9mp3It's a pity....but I guess you get what you pay
13:06:17amiconnMy Ondio SP suffers from the same problem, but even though we changed the chip at devcon, the problem did persist
13:06:38amiconnSo it's not (only) due to the chip. Maybe I'll change the coil next
13:07:02Genre9mp3So, I suppose there's nothing I can do about it (without put my hands into the hardware)
13:07:41*Genre9mp3 is the first time that wishes he bought faulty alkalines
13:07:51amiconnNope. Normally, the Ondio has a quite decent runtime. I get ~9 hours on 900mAh NiMH cells, and >10h with decent alkalines
13:08:14amiconnMy Ondio SP only runs about 3 hours...
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13:09:19Genre9mp3With a quick estimation It seems that I will get only 2 hours....hmph! :(
13:09:21MmmmSlasheri: You mean as part of the if condition? I haven't come across that notation before, what does ~ do?
13:10:49*amiconn hopes to find a solution for this power-sucking problem
13:10:54Genre9mp3I thimk that the seller _should_ mention this problem, don't you agree?
13:10:54linuxstbMmmm: It's a bitwise NOT. i.e. it will clear the BUTTON_REPEAT bit, and then compare it with WPS_EXIT_PRE
13:11:05amiconnThe coil is relatively easy to change (compared to the chip)
13:11:11amiconnYes, he should
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13:11:56Mmmmlinuxstb: slash: ooh clever......
13:12:08Genre9mp3Damn, It's like having something and don't having it at the same time! :(
13:12:11amiconnThat is, if he is aware of the problem. The problem with retailos is that it doesn't reach the runtime figures archos promises, even without this defect
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13:12:52amiconnArchos promises up to 10 hours. With retailos you get more like 6...7 hours, on an intact Ondio
13:13:04 Quit Slasheri (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
13:13:08Genre9mp3So you say this power draining problem affects mostly Rockbox?
13:13:56 Quit sharpe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:14:35Mmmmslash: (lastbutton & ~BUTTON_REPEAT) != WPS_EXIT_PRE it is then eh?
13:14:44Mmmmoh, hes gone! :D
13:14:45amiconnIt's more visible in rockbox, because rockbox itself usually has better runtime.
13:15:43Genre9mp3Oh... I thought you said that with a problematic Ondio you get 6-7 hours with original firmware
13:16:10amiconnWith an intact Ondio you get 6..7 hours in retail, and ~10 hours in rockbox
13:16:21Genre9mp3Well, Rockbox made Archos promises real...
13:16:26amiconnWith a problematic Ondio you'll get around 3 hours in both
13:16:32Genre9mp3But my Ondio is incapable of this... :(
13:17:39Genre9mp3It's a pity, because it's so light and tiny and I had very positive feelings when I first opened the box
13:18:14Genre9mp3And I was planning on buying a 4GB I don't know if it worths it...
13:18:39Genre9mp3But I'll be sure to check with other alkalines, too
13:18:43Genre9mp3...just in case
13:22:06amiconnWell, we need to find a hardware fix. Then you can try to fix your Ondio as well
13:22:30amiconnThe bad thing is that an intact Ondio can develop this problem. My Ondio SP did
13:23:02*amiconn is afraid that his or pixelma's Ondio FM could also develop the problem.
13:24:56Genre9mp3This problem only happens on Ondio's?
13:25:13Genre9mp3Does this ever happened to a Player/Recorder?
13:25:36amiconnOndio only
13:25:49amiconnThe recorders and players have different DC-DC converters
13:26:42linuxstbSpeaking of hardware issues, my Recorder v1 makes worrying clicking sounds when I turn it on, and has done for a long time. I think it's from the hard disk, but it seems to still be working fine.
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13:27:33*Genre9mp3 is left out with an irritating semi-satisfy feeling
13:28:47Genre9mp340mins of playback > -30% seems that it's exactly the same problem
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13:29:26Genre9mp3linuxstb: At least the Hard Disk is easily replacable
13:29:40Genre9mp3And you can find everywhere 2,5 inch HDDs
13:29:53linuxstbYep, and by a much larger one as well. (I still have the original 20GB)
13:31:04LinusNlinuxstb: it may very well be the batteries
13:31:20*Genre9mp3 thinks that if I attempt to fix my Ondio, I should somehow find a replacement chip
13:31:39Genre9mp3not to mention that I don't have soldering experience
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13:32:54linuxstbLinusN: You mean a lose connection? I've used various different batteries during the lifetime of the clicks...
13:33:20LinusNcould be a symptom of loose connections
13:33:46linuxstbThat would make most sense now I think about it - the LCD backlight flickers a little sometimes as well.
13:34:15LinusNthe most common symptoms of loose connectors are startup problems and hd clicking
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13:34:40amiconnThe chip isn't that easy to replace (10-lead MSOP package)
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13:35:03Genre9mp3amiconn: I can imagine..
13:35:30LinusNtakes some patience, skill and proper equipment
13:35:31amiconnLinusN: My recorder v1 does also sometimes click on boot/spinup, but I couldn't find any loose connections
13:36:06LinusNamiconn: weird
13:37:33amiconnI even resoldered all battery connectors anyway, and put in new 2700mAh cells, which sit very tight
13:38:01linuxstbDo you still have the original HD?
13:38:06LinusNwell, a clicking hd *might* also be an hd problem
13:38:40amiconnlinuxstb: Yes, I've put it into my Studio. Works perfectly there
13:39:23Genre9mp3BTW, speaking of Ondios... I can't understand why Archos didn't put a backlight at all since 1)there is space for it and 2) it's completely necessary at some situations
13:39:46linuxstbamiconn: So the same drive clicks in the recorder, but not in your Studio?
13:39:59linuxstb(or are you using a different drive in the recorder now/)
13:40:28amiconnGenre9mp3: The Ondio PCB is even prepared for an EL backlight, see
13:40:39amiconnlinuxstb: Different drive (80GB)
13:41:15Genre9mp3amiconn: Thanks, I am aware of this mod
13:42:03Genre9mp3It's funny that the SP and FM use exactly the same shell
13:42:30Genre9mp3There's a little mic opening while there is no mic
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13:43:28Genre9mp3And a round "tap" where the line-in is on OndioFMs
13:44:37amiconnYes. The round tap is actually a hole, and there's a case-coloured dummy placed between the 2 PCBs where the FM has the line-in socket
13:45:26Genre9mp3What I like, is the button configuration... less buttons of course compared to H300 but pretty similar navigation configuration
13:45:31amiconnThey even placed the parallel port buffer chip on the SP PCB which is only used for recording transfer from the MAS to the CPU
13:46:07amiconnSo if you add a mic and a line-in socket, it would be possible to add wav recording on Ondio SP in rockbox
13:46:56Genre9mp3Haha...3 pending mods already and I just got it in my hands! :P
13:47:54Genre9mp3amiconn: Since you have an OndioFM, have you used it for recording?
13:48:21amiconnOnly for testing
13:48:34Genre9mp3I wonder if OndioFM power the mic or not..
13:49:56Genre9mp3Once, they gave me a T30 for test recording, and I was dissapointed by the fact I had to use it with self-powered mics only
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13:50:38Genre9mp3Unlike H100/H300 that AFAIK the provide 2,5volts to the mics
13:52:00peturheh, the guys at would rather not have plug power :)
13:52:24Genre9mp3petur: why?
13:53:33peturit's useless for them and limits the number of mics you can use (they fear some self powered mics won't like the power)
13:53:55peturhaven't asked them if they are sure or if it's just a feeling they have
13:55:12Genre9mp3petur: Oh, you are talking about the H100/H300
13:55:32Genre9mp3I think that self-powered mics don't have problems with that
13:56:08amiconnGenre9mp3: The Ondio has a line in, not a mic in
13:56:26amiconnIf you want to connect an external mic, you'll need a mic amplifier
13:57:14Genre9mp3What's the difference between a line-in and a mic-in? The power?
13:58:57Genre9mp3petur: This guy here: has used the Sony ECM-717 which is self-powered with his H100 and had no problems
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14:00:05ZagorI have now set access requirement for viewing diffs in twiki. some moron is spidering every single revision.
14:00:20peturGenre9mp3: them guys at taperssection talk about $500+ mics and consider the irivers very low end
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14:01:23amiconnThe H100 input is a combined mic/line input. The archos input is a pure line-in
14:01:39amiconnIt's not sensitive enough to handle microphone levels
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14:03:46Genre9mp3petur: Probably because of the built-in amp... Some people find it a bit noisy
14:04:09Genre9mp3for silent recordings at least
14:04:09 Quit A_M (Client Quit)
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14:08:49amiconnGenre9mp3: With adding a mic I meant an internal mic, like the one in the Ondio FM
14:11:08A_MHey folks! I could use some help in regard to this forum thread: Is it really meant to be possible to define sublines inside conditionals in WPS code?
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14:13:35Genre9mp3amiconn: Yes I understood that, I was just then wondered about the line-in (if it was similar to the irivers)
14:13:47LinusNA_M: not sure
14:14:08LinusNA_M: are you andreas mattsson?
14:14:26LinusNi believe there is a bug in your patch
14:14:53LinusNLine 1669
14:15:07LinusNdid you really mean to replace that with reset_subline?
14:15:57A_Mhmm... I think not
14:15:59LinusNi believe that is the problem he is having
14:16:31LinusNif i correct that line, the battery icon is back
14:16:57LinusNwas just about to commit it when i discovered the alternating sublines problem you asked about
14:17:08LinusNi'm sitting in gdb as we speak
14:17:27Genre9mp3This only happens with engineer wps?
14:18:07Genre9mp3at least from the bundled ones...
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14:20:41 Part davix ("Leaving")
14:21:01A_Mforgive me for being such a rockbox dev noob, but what is gdb?
14:21:38_FireFly_gdb is the unix debugger
14:21:50_FireFly_gdb = gnu debugger
14:22:16Genre9mp3Just checked engineer code, is t0.25 subline time valid?
14:22:47Genre9mp3I thought it should be at 1/10sec steps
14:23:23 Join cerf [0] (
14:23:32A_MI tried changing line 1669 back myself aswell, and the icon is indeed back and the fix still works (the problem I wrote the patch for is no longer there).
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14:28:07Mode"#rockbox +o Zagor " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
14:28:26cerfnothing like cinnamon toast crunch in the morning
14:28:41LinusNGenre9mp3: you are correct
14:29:21Topic"Feature freeze lifted - read the mailing list" by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
14:29:56LinusNlet the promiscuous committing begin!
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14:30:22 Join izzledizzler [0] (
14:30:23midkay_what mailing list post? :)
14:30:32izzledizzlerdoes the latest rockbox have tag cache working?
14:31:09 Quit PaulJam (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:31:33Zagorit takes a few minutes before the mail is delivered to everyone. it's a big list.
14:31:34scorcheugh...caps and typos >_>
14:31:44scorchei am looking on the site itself
14:32:30cerftime to drop the kids off at the pool
14:32:39Zagorscorche: the site archive is just another member of the mailing list. it gets no special treatment.
14:34:08*obo thinks his build server is going to cry ;)
14:34:51midkay_Zagor: awesome, and makes complete sense to me. :)
14:34:52 Join PaulJam [0] (
14:35:07linuxstbZagor: It's sad news, but I agree it's the right thing to do.
14:35:10 Join TCK [0] (
14:35:47Genre9mp3feature freeze lifted?
14:35:47*petur keeps hitting F5 on the mailing list archive page
14:35:57scorcheglad i stayed up to see it =)
14:35:57*Genre9mp3 does that, too
14:36:06oboGenre9mp3: yes
14:36:07midkay_SEe it?
14:36:08midkay_or HEAR it.
14:36:10 Nick midkay_ is now known as midkay (
14:36:24*scorche got it read to him by midkay like a bedtime story
14:36:31scorcheg'night =)
14:36:36midkaynighto, scorche.
14:37:11scorchepetur: "reload every" is a good extrention =)
14:37:59qwxwait scorche
14:39:00obowill 3.0 be extended for newer targets (ipods, iaudios), or will it still follow the existing 3.0 and 3.1 plan?
14:39:42Genre9mp3So, does this means that we are relesing today?
14:39:43Zagorobo: well the plan is sort of in the air right now, since we failed to follow it. we'll have to see what happens the coming weeks/month
14:39:44midkayi personally think that already the iPods and iAudios are working quite well that when the release happens, probably in a few months, they'd probably be doing just fine...
14:39:49ZagorGenre9mp3: no
14:40:44scorcheqwx: ?
14:40:47midkayzagor: time for a front-page news post?
14:40:59qwxscorche: want album list?
14:41:03Zagormidkay: indeed
14:41:15izzledizzlerdoes anyone know about tag cache?
14:41:16scorcheqwx: would love it
14:41:21linuxstbmidkay: You know I disagree with that :) The ipod port is a _long_ way from being release quality: 1) battery life; 2) skipping during playback; 3) Missing hardware support - no recording, no accessory support, no firewire support, etc etc etc
14:41:22Zagori'll just wait until the mail is in the archive
14:41:26qwxscorche: ah. i'll make one for you then. :p
14:41:44oboiaudio is closer isn't it?
14:41:48midkaylinuxstb: right, battery life.. :) skipping is pretty global a problem, no? scrolling fast on irivers isn't a problem? :o
14:41:59qwxscorche: then you'll pick albums you want, i'll pack them into a neat rar, and dcc send it to you!
14:42:17midkaywe want *accessory support* and recording for an iPod release? that's a surprise to me..
14:42:20scorcheqwx: may i sleep now? =)
14:42:32 Quit qwm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:42:32qwxscorche: of course.. sleep well, silly american. :p
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14:42:38JdGordoncomiserations and congratulations all..
14:42:53linuxstbmidkay: The skipping problem is an order of magnitude worse on the ipods - at least on the irivers, you can use the EQ, crossfeed etc at the same time as MP3 decoding.
14:43:02midkayah, that's good at least..
14:43:06midkaywell, i suppose we'll see. :)
14:43:12linuxstbI've never experienced skips on my h140.
14:43:21linuxstb(apart from with AAC)
14:43:22qwmlinuxstb: could you explain the origin of your nick? i'm curious. :p
14:44:02LinusNhas the battery animation in engineeer2 ever worked as i think the author intended?
14:44:11midkaylinuxstb: BTW, did you see what i wrote earlier asking about whether Daniel Ankers not being credited for his 3G discovery was an oversight or intentional?
14:44:14linuxstbI started and abandoned a sourceforge project related to DVB software on Sourceforge many moons ago, and linuxstb (Linux Set-Top Box) was the name of that project. The name followed be to Rockbox when Rockbox was hosted on Sourceforge.
14:45:04Genre9mp3LinusN: Probably but very slowly (using default 2sec time)
14:45:28LinusNthe timing is allright, but the animation is not
14:47:47 Quit spiorf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:48:22cerfanyone know where i can get a new h140 other than ebay or nulime ?
14:48:32 Join qwx [0] (
14:48:50LinusNlooks like wps sublines in conditionals is a no-no
14:49:55A_Myup, as far as I can see lines are split into sublines before conditionals or any other tags are parsed.
14:49:59pixelmaI tried that once (sublines in conditionals) having trouble though I don't remember what it was
14:50:39linuxstbmidkay: Yes, I did see that. I hadn't considered adding him to the credits - he didn't contribute any actual code or bugfixes, but his debugging and testing pointed me in the right direction to spot the bug and he confirmed that my fix worked. But people have probably been added to the credits for less, so I'm happy either way.
14:51:08TeaSeacerf: Nowhere.
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14:51:17TeaSeaH140s don't get made.
14:51:30 Quit TCK (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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14:51:41midkaylinuxstb: ah, i see.. i guess it's not a big deal, but IMO he deserves to be there.
14:51:49cerfi know... figured there were some still floating around out there
14:52:09dan_amidkay: (being the person in question) I don't mind if I don't appear in the credits at the moment.
14:52:40midkaydan_a: ah, hello.. :) understood.. i'm just kind of anal about giving people credit. :)
14:53:02dan_aI'm hoping I'll have some useful bugfixes before long :)
14:53:27midkaywell, majorly contributing to fixing audio playback is quite a nice one. :)
14:53:51*dan_a blushes
14:54:16linuxstbWhich reminds me, someone should add Paul_The_Nerd...
14:55:41linuxstbdan_a: You're in the credits now :)
14:56:14*petur gives the mailing list archive an angry look
14:56:16midkaywhy didn't you add paul_the_nerd ffs!!!?!!! :)
14:56:30linuxstbSeparate commit...
14:56:38linuxstbGive me chance :)
14:56:58linuxstbAnd I've forgotten his real name...
14:57:08midkaypaul.. uh..
14:57:12cerfnow you're goting to have to give midkay credit for getting dan credit
14:57:16midkaypaul.. something..
14:57:21midkaycerf: too late, way up on the list. :D
14:57:35cerfand now me for getting midkay for getting dan
14:57:37pixelmaPaul Louden - I think
14:57:41midkayyeah. louden.
14:57:43linuxstbpixelma: Yes - I've just checked IRCNicks
14:58:19Genre9mp3lounge :P
14:58:38*lou disables soundfile when his nick is used in IRC
14:58:42 Quit TeaSea ("Leaving")
14:58:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:00:34cerfi really hate when you are seeding something and everyone bails as soon as they get to 100 and i get stuck with a gusy with 2% of a 4gb file
15:00:43cerfat a 10k upload speed
15:03:34 Quit qwm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:04:10oboZagor: FYI - if I try and view a diff on the wiki, then cancel the login box, I get a page with just "{ScriptUrlPath}/view/TWiki/TWikiRegistration" on it
15:04:29Zagoryeah, I noticed too. will fix.
15:04:53 Quit A_M ("CGI:IRC")
15:04:55linuxstbdan_a: BTW, I'm curious about your FLAC crashes - even if it's a dodgy FLAC file, I would like to prevent Rockbox crashing with it. Are you able to upload the file somewhere?
15:05:22Genre9mp3Zagor: you sent the mail in rockbox-dev mailing list, right?
15:05:44ZagorI sent it to both
15:06:10Genre9mp3Well, then the mailing-lists page is laggy
15:06:30Zagorthere seems to be some snag with mailman, causing delay. gmane got both posts pretty quickly, but I still haven't gotten them myself
15:07:15LinusN"Gentlemen, start your compilers" :-)
15:07:31dan_alinuxstb: I only tried once.
15:07:33 Join Febs [0] (
15:07:58dan_aI'll have a bit more of a play later, I think there may be random crashes and device resets happening
15:08:10dan_acerf: Indeed :D
15:08:13cerfthere is a song that will test your eq
15:08:24izzledizzlerdo I choose 'initialize now' to get tagcache working?
15:08:26cerfit doesn't even matter which song
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15:10:26amiconnoh, hmm
15:10:39*amiconn thinks lifting the freeze isn't a good idea
15:10:47*LinusN is not surprised
15:10:58Zagoramiconn: hehe, I thought you'd say that :-)
15:11:18*petur finally gets the mail
15:11:28Zagornow it's in the archive too
15:11:29izzledizzlerand is 'entries' in tagcache debug the number of songs?
15:15:04linuxstbdan_a: Did that FLAC file crash immediately, or did any audio play first?
15:15:25linuxstb(I understand you've only briefly tested FLAC)
15:15:44PaulJambtw, i have noticed, that since the commit for the wps-sublines the swapping time (for small values, e.g. %t0.6) became very inconsistent. I.e. before the patch the line "%t0.6 %xdr;%t0.6 %xdO" the bitmap always changed after the same amount of time, and after the patch it became somehow irregular
15:18:33 Join CYPER^ [0] (
15:18:52CYPER^I have a question
15:18:58dan_alinuxstb: It doesn't seem to have crashed this time. It plays without skipping too.
15:19:03LinusNCYPER^: then ask
15:19:19CYPER^can I safely delete these folders from the root: Calendars, Contacts & Notes
15:19:23izzledizzleris there a support channel of which I'm unaware?
15:19:33CYPER^iPod 4G
15:19:42dan_aOh, I just got a Data Abort by pressing the FFWD button
15:19:51CYPER^they are left from the apple firmware I guess
15:19:57LinusNCYPER^: rockbox doesn't care about those
15:20:01Zagorizzledizzler: no, this is it. I'm sorry nobody is able to answer your question at this point.
15:20:16CYPER^great :)
15:20:24linuxstbCYPER^: Yes, delete them. You can even delete ipod_control if you want to.
15:20:25 Join Kohlrabi [0] (
15:20:37CYPER^I will :D
15:20:39linuxstb(Apple's firmware will recreate them every time it's started though).
15:20:49CYPER^there was iPod Control
15:20:52CYPER^but now is gone
15:20:55CYPER^I don't know why
15:21:22LinusNPaulJam: even with the latest cvs build?
15:21:48PaulJamLinusN: i have just updated, compiling now
15:22:11izzledizzlerhrm, is msg.inf a rockbox file?
15:22:24 Join Slasher [0] (
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15:23:09LinusNizzledizzler: no
15:24:01LinusNall rockbox files are in the .rockbox dir except for the rockbox binary
15:24:14LinusN(which should be moved to .rockbox too)
15:25:48 Quit Mmmm ("Byeee")
15:27:09CYPER^move rockbox.ipod to .rockbox folder?
15:28:35linuxstbCYPER^: Yes - the bootloader checks both the root directory and .rockbox folder for a rockbox.ipod
15:28:35peturCYPER^: both are supported
15:28:41LinusNCYPER^: yes, i believe it's a good idea if all rockbox files would reside in the same directory
15:29:13CYPER^great 10x :) I'll move it :)
15:29:15LinusNi guess now is a good time to change the zip file generation scripts
15:29:36linuxstbLinusN: Yes, I was just thinking the same. The ipod bootloaders have always looked in .rockbox first, so that won't be a problem.
15:29:46CYPER^also can I make it to show the artist on one screen and then on the next screen just the song names?
15:30:08peturI feel we need a separate directory for all the data (user config, game saves, user fm presets)
15:30:24*amiconn would have preferred to keep the freeze and have a proper 3.0 release rather than leaving the unfixed bugs unfixed and let even more stuff rush in
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15:32:07 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
15:32:28Zagoramiconn: how long would you freeze? we have no fixes on the horizon for some of the playback bugs, for instance
15:32:31LinusNthe thing is that nobody has bothered/had time to fix said bugs
15:32:52 Quit muesli|delhi ("ich will Khe!!!")
15:33:39LinusNso the freeze would have continued for at least another month
15:34:51izzledizzlertagcacge works nicely
15:34:55izzledizzlercache, even.
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15:37:23webguest85Linus, could you commit hardeeps latest revision, "playlist catalog" patch to cvs please,
15:38:41*Genre9mp3 wonders if we are going to have a commit-orgasm now that the freeze is lifted
15:38:43linuxstbI'm in two minds - it seems to me that the playback engine is going to need rewriting yet again (to unify it with hwcodec), so we don't really lose anything in the long-term by not having a stable playback engine today.
15:38:57webguest85or any other dev, hardeep revised the patch on the 14th,
15:39:03PaulJamLinusN: it still happens with recent cvs. when i revert both commits the swapping time of the bitmap is stable again. (i have only tested with the simulator)
15:39:25CYPER^Another question: how can I make the volume to be shown from 0 to 100 or at least in more meaningful way with numbers
15:39:50CYPER^cause now is from -74 to +6
15:40:30Genre9mp3CYPER^: You can make it from 0 to 10 by altering a WPS
15:40:31*webguest85 points to pretty please
15:40:32LinusNwebguest85: funny, that patch was the first i had a look at after the lift, a few minutes ago
15:40:44webguest85hehe, wonderfull, thank you
15:40:57CYPER^Genre9mp3 is it difficult? :)
15:41:12ZagorCYPER^: the values are decibel
15:41:21linuxstbCYPER^: The -74 to +6 refers to the gain in dB - the only meaningful value when dealing with volume.
15:41:28CYPER^any idea which file should I edit?
15:41:42Genre9mp3CYPER^: The .wps file you use...
15:41:52CYPER^yeah I realize that, but my mom won't be happy with it :)
15:41:55Genre9mp3open it with a text editor
15:42:15linuxstbCYPER^: You can also remove the numbers completely and use a WPS with a volume icon.
15:42:33CYPER^I prefer numbers: for volume and for the battery meter even :)
15:42:48CYPER^Ok I'll see what I can do :)
15:43:38Genre9mp3there's a good start to get familiar with the wps code
15:43:38CYPER^one more question hehe: with the apple firmware when you press the middle button while playing then you can seek with the click wheel
15:43:51CYPER^here you have to hold the left/right
15:44:18CYPER^can I seek with the click wheel here as well?
15:44:33webguest85thanks folks
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15:46:27linuxstbCYPER^: No, but the REW/FFWD buttons have customisable accelleration instead - so you can seek through long files very quickly that way.
15:46:54CYPER^I found that in the settings :)
15:47:49linuxstbBut using the wheel for seeking has been mentioned before, so maybe someone will implement it.
15:47:57amiconn_Zagor: So what's the problem if the freeze goes on another month?
15:48:01CYPER^it will be nice :)
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15:48:34amiconn_The problem with lifting the freeze is that it becomes even less likely the bugs will ever be fixed
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15:49:14amiconnSo (taking it to the extreme) we'll have a super-duper rockbox one day, but still no non-archos release
15:49:14ZagorI disagree. If after three months we still haven't been able to fix the bugs, what says another three months will help?
15:49:22CYPER^also there are some themes, that were installed by default - and the look ugly, cause some small icons are not where they are supposed to be: for example the volume icon is behind the seek bar
15:50:04bluebrotherCYPER^, install the fonts package.
15:50:05Zagoras I wrote in the mail, a freeze without "light at the end of the tunnel" is very boring and turns away new developers who can't get their patches even evaluated.
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15:51:42ZagorI much prefer having fun than having a release, if we have to choose one over the other
15:52:26foRzaWhat's the difference between Ipod Mini 1st gen and 2nd gen?
15:52:36Mode"#rockbox -o Zagor " by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
15:52:56izzledizzleris a patch the only solution to scrolling acceleration onthe iPod at the moment?
15:53:25CYPER^how can I use the iPod while connected to the PC?
15:54:05PaulJamizzledizzler: you could use one of the precompiled experimental builds in the forums.
15:54:14goffaahhhhh... feels much... warmer in here :)
15:56:46JdGordonamiconn: what about offering a semi-bounty to get the bugs fixed, e.g for every real bug fixed the person who fixes it can choose a patch that they would like commited but the core devs are indifferent to the patch, commited?
15:56:55goffaheh.. now hopefully someone will develop the one button queuing
15:57:02CYPER^also can I put a font of my choice? Any font?
15:57:08CYPER^like Verdana or Comic Sans?
15:58:19LinusNJdGordon: haha
15:58:45JdGordonthat of course wouldnt motivate anyone with comit rights tho :p
15:58:46goffai will say that switching tree_run and tree_wps was a big help
15:58:54LinusNso for every bug fixed, we can commit a crappy patch to introduce 5 more bugs?
15:59:16goffait solves the accidential queing of a dir
15:59:25CYPER^LinusN so I convert a regular font with tha program and then upload to the player?
15:59:38goffai think it should be default
16:00:04LinusNno, then you convert the bdf font to the rockbox .fnt format, then you upload it to the player
16:01:03CYPER^10x :)
16:01:13cerfonly 10 ?
16:01:20JdGordonLinusN: ye, something like that
16:01:33bluebrotherwhat exactly does the "playlist catalog" do?
16:01:45bluebrotherlist all playlists on the device?
16:01:57izzledizzlercan I just copy across tagcache files?
16:02:00LinusNit keeps acatalog of your favourite playlists and lets you add files to them easily
16:02:04izzledizzlerwhen using a new build
16:02:22bluebrothersounds nice.
16:02:56LinusNbluebrother: one of my favourite features
16:03:03LinusNfinally in cvs
16:04:21izzledizzlerbizarre. where else are settings stored apart from in .rockbox?
16:04:23linuxstbfoRza: The difference between the two minis is basically two different CPUs (PP5020 on the 1st gen, PP5022 on the 2nd gen) and different button hardware.
16:04:43bluebrotherizzledizzler, in an unused block on disk
16:07:42izzledizzlerI stuck on a new build and I'm getting tagcache errors, so it must be enabled somewhere
16:07:59amiconnlinuxstb: The LCD hookup is also different between mini g1 and g2
16:08:27amiconn(true 16bit access on g2, and split into 2 8bit accesses on g1)
16:08:51izzledizzlerI had tagcache enabled on my previous build, but this one shouldn't have it..
16:09:07bluebrotherizzledizzler, try cleaning the settings on boot
16:11:23linuxstbamiconn: Ah, I didn't know that.
16:12:23*linuxstb suspects the manual writers will be busy in the next few days as well...
16:12:37FebsHa ha!
16:13:09FebsActually, I'll be traveling for business starting tomorrow, so I should have some downtime on airplanes and in hotels. I might be able to get some updates done.
16:13:18JdGordonon the topic of new features... can i request and be commited? both should be synced and ready to go, 2808 will reset settings tho :p
16:14:52goffanice picks JdGordon
16:15:51JdGordonalso the remaining patches from which add support for the remote, pretty please :D
16:16:01louhopefully someone will start to work on my laserbeams-from-usb-adapter addon for the ipod
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16:16:45izzledizzlerfor some reason I still get 'no files' when I boot the build
16:16:53izzledizzlertagcache must be on or something.
16:18:18LinusNJdGordon: wouldn't it be better to address the #ifdef hell before committing those patches?
16:19:36LinusNthe remote patches
16:19:52LinusNor are they unaffected by the ifdef hell?
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16:20:54JdGordonthey add slightly to it, in the button code only, and i dont really see the ifdef hell going in the near future... add the patch more so the remote is usable in 99% of the ui.
16:21:07*JdGordon possibly is not making much sence as he needs sleep
16:21:50MmmmIs someone saying my patches have #ifdef hell?? ;)
16:21:54LinusNi see two patches to the virtual keyboard in the tracker
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16:23:16amiconnWell, since the freeze is now lifted ( :// ) we should go ahead and implement the button action system
16:23:58goffayou mean the one i've been begging for?
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16:28:43izzledizzlerwhat does it do?
16:30:43LinusNthe button action system is an internal system for handling the problem of having multiple buttons do the same action (main keypad, different types of remotes)
16:31:19JdGordon.. or simply put, instead of checking if the off button was pushed, you'd check if the exit action was called
16:31:51LinusNit's a really old idea, but never really took off
16:32:08JdGordonor, instead of having to worry about weather u held a button down, the system would do that for you
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16:38:58goffaah... i guess i'll keep waiting then :)
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17:21:18oboZagor: Bagder: The CVS builds page is missing a entry at the bottom for the 3g
17:21:38 Quit slimx (Remote closed the connection)
17:23:55 Quit Genre9mp3 ("I don't suffer from Rockbox psychosis. I enjoy every minute of it.")
17:25:34 Part CloFan
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17:29:00 Join Jungti1234 [0] (n=jungti12@
17:29:13 Quit Nico_P ()
17:33:52RaeNyeAny alive dev 'round here?
17:37:13deltronhow do I reset my ipod once I put the .zip on it?
17:37:40peturI hope you meant 'unzip the .zip on it'
17:37:50linuxstbdeltron: Safely eject it from your computer, then if it doesn't reboot automatically, hold MENU+SELECT for a few seconds.
17:38:06linuxstb^eject and unplug
17:38:18deltronah, right on
17:39:01RaeNyewell, now that FF is lifted, I want my X5 patches comitted to CVS. Could you help?
17:40:28linuxstbRaeNye: Not sure who you're talking to, but I don't own an X5, so I would rather not commit any X5 patches - a) I can't test; and b) I don't know enough about that part of Rockbox to know if you're doing good things (although I'm sure you are...)
17:40:30goffawhat'd you do RaeNye ?
17:40:53goffa'm not a dev just an x5 owner
17:41:56RaeNyeI've done things before (some bugfixes and most notably the dual bootloader) but uncomitted are the brightness & contrast patch and the FM radio patch.
17:42:16RaeNyelinuxstb: fair enough
17:42:37peturRaeNye: talk to Bagder
17:42:51RaeNyeand there's also some progress towards remote LCD although I don't have a remote
17:43:31 Quit Jungti1234 ()
17:43:43RaeNyepetur: Bagder or Linus, yeah... but they seem not be be here ATM
17:45:06deltronis there any way to play music while it charges?
17:45:40linuxstbYes, start Rockbox without the USB cable inserted, then hoid the MENU button as you insert the cable.
17:46:21linuxstbBut it's possible that Rockbox will use more power than the USB cable provides - meaning you won't get any increase in charge... But try it and see.
17:46:47deltroni like rockbox so far, very nice
17:47:02deltron<3 .m3u support
17:49:30RaeNyemaybe it's time I learn to use logf. Any one-line guide?
17:51:13linuxstbRaeNye: It just works like printf but writes to a buffer which you can view in (I think) a main menu option - for LOGF enabled builds.
17:51:24*amiconn volunteers to write the x5 remote lcd drawing routines, even though he doesn't even have an X5
17:51:34amiconnYet another 2bit greyscale pixel format
17:51:37linuxstbWhat about ipod greyscale lib?
17:51:49amiconnWill happen soon
17:52:05linuxstbI assume the format's known already? Meaning you could do it in the sim?
17:52:06RaeNyeyip yip
17:52:10linuxstb(for the x5 lcd remote)
17:52:22amiconnThat is, if the lcd is fast enough. It looks like it is, but I can't be sure until I try the actual thing
17:52:24RaeNyethanks amiconn
17:53:01amiconnRaeNye: The basic format is known; what's not known to me is the orientation of the bytes as it depends on the orientation of the panel
17:53:10RaeNyelinuxstb: and how to enable logf support? is there a limit on the "syslog" created?
17:53:36linuxstbYou enable it via the configure script. I'm not sure about the size limit in the syslog.
17:53:40 Join qwm [0] (
17:53:45qwmthat.. loose woman.
17:53:45RaeNyeI can give you sample remote LCD images from the OF
17:54:05RaeNyeI put a sample one in the patch
17:55:02RaeNye(sample image = height, width and 2*height*width data bytes)
17:55:18 Quit qwm (Client Quit)
17:55:40amiconnlinuxstb: Before porting the grayscale lib to ipod, I'll add linearisation and gamma correction to it
17:55:42 Join JoeyBorn [0] (
17:55:52RaeNyethe (D)evel build is the logf-enabled one in the configure script?
17:56:20 Quit deltron ("reboot")
17:56:39linuxstbRaeNye: Yes. Press D, then L, then ENTER by itself.
17:57:59RaeNyeok, thanks.
17:59:20RaeNyenow I just have to get the simulator not crashing (gentoo...) and I could do some high-level RB dev
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18:01:39RaeNyeamiconn: speaking of LCD code, don't you think there's too much duplication in the various lcd-*.c variants?
18:05:44 Quit petur ("eow")
18:08:47 Join DomasoFan [0] (n=Miranda@
18:10:04DomasoFanis some from the rockbox iriver port here? because i have a question
18:10:33 Join alberink [0] (
18:10:38PaulJamjust ask, i'm sure someone will answer.
18:11:34obooooo, (weird) red build
18:12:05Mikachuobo: i expect you to get unplug pause in now :)
18:12:14obojust too old a gcc version???
18:12:37oboMikachu: heh, hopefully ;)
18:12:43DomasoFanok. does someone know if the battery problems with the iRiver H 340 has been fixed? Because I have a older version of Rockbox running on my device and last recording it died. OK it shut off during recording and I don't recognized it. Now I will go on a long trip and I will be happy if my iRiver don't let me down during the trip.
18:13:17 Quit Criamos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:13:35MikachuDomasoFan: i think so, there was some talking about it a few weeks back
18:13:36bluebrotherDomasoFan, yes when speaking of the short battery life due to too much power drain.
18:13:36PaulJambattery runtime on h300 now exceeds the batterytime of the original firmware.
18:13:43 Quit JoeBorn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:13:44amiconnobo: The red build happened on Christi's server, because she didn't update sh-elf-gcc
18:13:57amiconnBagder: Please disable sh builds on that server...
18:16:07DomasoFanI think the battery was full and I used it about 30 minutes before I recorded about 20 minutes. Maybe the new daily build will be better than this old stuff on my unit.
18:18:19PaulJamif your battery lasts for only less than an hour after a full charge, i guess your battery needs to be replaced.
18:18:53PaulJamhow is the batterytime with the originalfirmware?
18:19:04 Quit JoeyBorn ("Leaving")
18:19:20DomasoFanhas there been a few broken batteries around? because the unit is new and i don't used it much.
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18:25:31 Join Moos [0] (
18:26:09MoosHello all !
18:26:30Moosnice to see the freeze is finally lefted
18:31:03goffaamen to that
18:31:39goffajust hope queue and play gets implemented
18:31:41Moosindeed :)
18:31:53 Quit obo ("CGI:IRC")
18:32:04Moos"queue and play", what do you mean?
18:32:51goffai think tree_wps and tree_run should be switched
18:33:08goffalike when you hit the navi button.. it brings up the file browser
18:33:30Moosah... ok
18:33:31goffawhen you select a file it makes a new playlist out of that dir
18:33:36goffaerasing your playlist
18:33:58goffainstead, it would be better to be able to change that behavior
18:34:46goffaswitching tree_wps and tree_run wouldn't do that.. but it does solve the problem of hitting the navi button twice by accident
18:35:43goffai've been compiling manually just for that reason for the past 3 months
18:35:48Moosnot sure to absolutly understand what do you mean, but there is one playlist option for preventing one accidental erasing curplaylist
18:35:53PaulJamgoffa: have you tried the party mode? it prevents the current playlist from accidently being deleted.
18:36:10goffayeah.. but that puts a file at the end of the list
18:36:28goffaand... it also prevents you from loading another list while in party mode
18:36:32*amiconn wonders how one can hit a button twice *by accident*
18:36:54Mooshehe :)
18:37:00goffaamicon... its easy.. you hit the navi button when the wps screen is on
18:37:08goffaand.. the browser doesn't load
18:37:19amiconnI mean, hitting a button once by accident can happen
18:37:23amiconnBut twice??
18:37:29goffaso.. thinking you must not have depressed the button you hit it again
18:38:01goffathen the current directory is queued forcing you tor reload your playlist
18:38:15goffaso you do hit twice by accident
18:38:22goffaused to happen to me all the time
18:38:34amiconnNever happened to me in 3+ years of rockboxing...
18:39:44goffabut do you see HOW it could happen?
18:40:12amiconnNot really
18:40:14PaulJamthis only happens to me when i want to go to the browser and i don't notice that i'm already there.
18:40:28goffathat's what i'm talking about PaulJam
18:40:36amiconnIf you press NAVI to enter the browser, you'll enter the browser
18:41:00amiconnIt may take a few seconds, depending on whether you use dircache (I don't) and maybe other things
18:41:13 Quit dan_a (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
18:41:15goffayou hit the button and before the browser loads there is that lag
18:41:23goffai don't use dircache either
18:41:36amiconnThat's one thing I like about rockbox - it queues button actions, so you can press sequences blind and in advance
18:41:55goffayeah.. i like it too
18:42:14goffabut... i think that right should select a file instead of navi
18:42:26goffathat way it eliminates the problem i mentioned
18:42:28amiconnRight selects files
18:42:40goffayeah.. redundant isn't it?
18:42:45amiconnNavi too, and removing that will be rather unintuitive
18:42:59 Part DomasoFan
18:43:07goffano... compile it once my way and try it
18:43:32goffahiting navi twice brings you back to wps
18:43:43goffainstead of blowing awoy your list
18:43:45PaulJamoh, i just noticed, that if party mode is enabled and you queue a song next, it shows up in the view playlist screen, but it doesn't get played.
18:43:58 Join Myth1 [0] (
18:44:03Myth1hi guys
18:44:07goffaPaulJam: it queues it at the bottom
18:44:23goffahi Myth1
18:44:43goffaparty mode is useless if you ask me
18:45:10Myth1Today I saw that the feature freeze is lifted. Is there a chance my mod & sid codecs will get added? Do I need to do anything for this?
18:45:44RaeNyehi moos, just noticed you joined
18:45:57linuxstbMyth1: I don't have any mods, but I'll be happy to look at your sid codec again. Can you test your patch with the current CVS and make sure it still applies and compiles OK?
18:45:58PaulJamgoffa: but in the view playlist screen it shows up after the currently playing song (so actual playlist and view playlist get out of sync).
18:46:35Myth1linuxstb: Sure
18:47:05goffaah... all i knew is that when i selected a song from the browser in party mode the song i selected didn't start playing
18:47:16 Quit Kohlrabi ("Quit")
18:47:37goffawhich is the main goal when selecting a song to play
18:47:49MoosHi RaeNye !
18:48:06Moosany new patch comming? ;P
18:48:27goffathe negative side effect in normal mode is that you lose your playlist unless you go through a series of keystrokes to prevent that(counter intuitive)
18:48:52goffaor you have to load your list again... which is a series of keystrokes
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18:51:12PaulJamgoffa: most times i select a song from the browser, i want the current playlist to be replaced with the contents of the folder. the other times i queue the song and press the next song button in the wps.
18:51:30goffabeeing able to customize button behavior would make frustrated users like me happy... and allow people who like the current behavior to stay the same
18:51:59goffaPaulJam: i'm just the opposite of you :)
18:52:23 Join Kohlrabi [0] (
18:52:36goffaif i want to just play a dir i shut random off
18:52:48goffait keeps my list then
18:53:13goffato me that makes much more sense
18:53:22MoosRaeNye: what's missing to your record and radio patches to get commited? was Linus gave you some feed backs?
18:53:22PaulJambut having an option for everything will confuse the users even more (but i think this option would be propably more useful then an option to sort case sesitive).
18:54:05goffacould.. but for those that understand it'll make them happy
18:54:14 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
18:54:24RaeNyemoos: mostly a dev
18:54:32 Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
18:54:49linuxstbNice timing from Linus...
18:54:51 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
18:55:02*RaeNye should participate in the lottery thing
18:55:08RaeNyeHya guys
18:55:18bluebrotherI don't see the point why Navi shouldn't select. Returning to wps is done with the play button. But maybe a configurable "enqueue as default action" would be useful.
18:55:36MoosRaeNye: hehe, Linus come at good moment
18:55:41goffabluebrother: did you miss the situation i presented before
18:55:51LinusNi am unfortunately busy right now
18:55:55goffawhere you hit the navi 2 times thinking you didn't press it the first time?
18:56:00bluebrothergoffa, no, I've read it but maybe I missed your point ;-)
18:56:08 Part LinusN ("Leaving")
18:56:11bluebrotherI never happend to do so.
18:56:37goffahappens a lot on my h140 and x5 more on the x5
18:56:39bluebrotherif that second press would enqueue it wouldn't destroy your playlist.
18:56:48Mooswow, LinusN left quickly ;)
18:57:01 Join obo [0] (
18:57:04goffabluebrother: that's what i want
18:57:14 Join KylePV [0] (
18:57:18bluebrotherbut maybe you should call it different ;-)
18:57:34bluebrotherI'd call it "possibility to set enqueue as default action"
18:57:42goffai don't care what its called as long as it does what i want
18:58:02goffamy wording is poor.. i'll admit
18:58:03bluebrotheryou sounded like you want to completely change the behaviour of the navi key.
18:58:18RaeNyeanyway, my X5 is kinda dead ATM, so I can't test things
18:58:23bluebrotheralso, I don't see a point why navi should return to wps. Play already does this.
18:58:33MoosRaeNye: I remenber to have asked LinusN few days ago about your patches, and iirc he said they was CVS materiel, maybe he will commit them when he will find a bit of time
18:58:37goffawell essentially i do bluebrother, but maybe not as drastically as i sound
18:58:47MoosRaeNye: what? really ? :(
18:58:57***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:59:03bluebrotherhaving navi returning to wps would annoy me heavily.
18:59:07RaeNyebut I've been working on several stuff, e.g. support for remote hold in the dual bootloader
18:59:10goffabluebrother: hitting play is intentional, hitting navi 2 times isn't always
18:59:15PaulJamgoffa: btw, why don't you use dircache, i could imagine that this would solve your accidently hitting navi twice problem.
18:59:29goffaprobably.. doesn't that suck more battery?
18:59:38bluebrotherbut when I'm hitting navi I'm doing it intentionally. Especially from the file browser :)
18:59:45Myth1linuxstb: The latest patch compiles just fine
18:59:46PaulJamnot really
18:59:51linuxstbOr Rockbox should display a splash when a disk spin-up is likely to delay the UI responding.
19:00:09goffabrb.. have to travel home
19:00:12bluebrothergoffa, I'm using dircache like since it got implemented. I don't think it eats up more battery.
19:00:19amiconnYou can feel the spinup. Why an extra splash?
19:00:21MoosRaeNye: still under warranty?
19:00:30RaeNyemoos: it just stopped responding. I had it two days ago, and then it mysteriously worked again for ~7 more hours. Then it shutdown in the middle and died
19:00:48linuxstbMyth1: Thanks. I'll try to commit it this evening - but it won't be immediately.
19:00:54RaeNyeMoos: yes, but it *has* RB on it obviously
19:01:10Myth1linuxstb: There's no hurry. I'm just happy if its online ;)
19:01:13RaeNyeI'll try to get to the store and see what they can do
19:01:16linuxstbamiconn: Using the remote?
19:01:29Myth1linuxstb: What do I have to do for getting the mod codec online, too?
19:01:43 Quit uski (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:01:55 Join LinusN [0] (n=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
19:02:03RaeNyehe's back
19:03:01LinusNRaeNye: have you compiled your patches on the other rockbox platforms?
19:03:04linuxstbMyth1: Just gently remind people now and then that it's still there....
19:03:11Myth1ok ;)
19:03:23MoosRaeNye: iaudio still repair even with rockbox no worries
19:03:25RaeNyelinusn: no, they're X5 specific
19:03:55LinusNwell, how do you know that your changes won't break the other platforms?
19:03:56RaeNyemoos: yes, it's just the hassle of getting it repaired.
19:04:27MoosLinusN: good question :)
19:04:46RaeNyeI wouldn't know that even if I compiled on all platforms; I can just know there're no syntax errors
19:05:11RaeNyesyntax errors are the lesser evil
19:05:45MoosRaeNye: just try now and see ;)
19:05:53LinusNyou should *at least* compile on the other platorms
19:05:57 Join rasher [0] (
19:06:27Mooswow, rasher you still alive ! :)
19:06:31Mooshi btw
19:06:58RaeNyethat means setting up a dev env with all compilers. I can do iriver with less hassle, but it'd take some time to check it on all platforms
19:07:36goffabluebrother: what player do you have?
19:07:37LinusNyes, it means installing two more compilers
19:08:03bluebrothergoffa, h120
19:08:07goffaand you using dircache might be why you dont understand my pain :)
19:08:09MoosRaeNye: use vmware or dowload the shared compilers, that's nbot big
19:08:38goffais there a way to configure dircache to follow the playlist?
19:08:38bluebrotherI used that player before dircache was implemented, but I like it better with dircache.
19:08:56goffainstead of loading the list of search criteria?
19:09:16RaeNyeI'm setting now a colinux debian env because the simulator crashes on gentoo; I guess I'll add the other compilers too. But it'll take a while.
19:09:29LinusNwe have time
19:09:31bluebrotherbut I agree on the point that the possibility to change the default action to enqueuing would be a nice option.
19:09:58bluebrotherdircache follow the playlist?
19:10:11goffayeah.. maybe i'm using dircache wrong
19:10:27goffabut when i hit navi.. it shows where you can search for a file
19:10:31goffainstead of the dir you are in
19:10:34 Join dan_a [0] (n=dan-mirc@
19:10:40bluebrotherthe "follow playlist" option works with dircache enabled ... if you mean that.
19:10:53bluebrotherhave you enabled tagcache?
19:10:54PaulJamare you confusing dircache with tagcache?
19:11:03goffai could be
19:11:12goffadidn't realize they were different
19:11:25bluebrotherdircache: caches all directory contents for faster access when browsing
19:11:39LinusNbtw, why is it called tag*cache*?
19:11:48bluebrothertagcache: generate a database of all files using their metadata
19:12:10bluebrotherLinusN, I guess because it's based on the files tags ;-)
19:12:26Moosand on the dircache
19:12:27LinusNyes, but what makes it a *cache*?
19:12:45LinusNit doesn't rely on the dircache at all
19:12:59goffaenabling dircache
19:13:03bluebrotherbecause it actually caches the data (to a file) rather than generating the index every time again?
19:13:32MoosLinusN: then you have to wait one Slasheri's answer ;)
19:14:16goffathat deffinately helps the speed
19:14:31LinusNin my world, it is a database and not a cache
19:14:42goffaand will prevent me hitting navi twice if its always that fast
19:14:45rasheramiconn: ping
19:15:00goffai'll still compile manually though to switch play and navi :)
19:15:10bluebrothergoffa, it _is_ always that fast :)
19:15:26goffawithout it there's always that latency
19:15:32bluebrotherI still like play being a toggle key for the wps
19:15:54bluebrother(which is why I'm waiting for
19:15:55goffayeah.. i like navi :) we can agree to disagree on that
19:15:57goffahe he he
19:16:11bluebrotheron that we really can agree :)
19:17:34goffai just wish i could program... then i wouldn't bother you people :P
19:18:04bluebrotherwhat keeps you away from learning? You already have a goal ;-)
19:19:16 Quit Moos ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
19:19:36 Join Moos [0] (
19:19:42bluebrotherthat indeed is a problematic point. I still have some ideas I'd like to try but I don't have time for them :(
19:20:07goffayeah... maybe when i finish up my courses for work...
19:20:13amiconnrasher: pong
19:20:22goffaand i have to stop fixing everyone's machine
19:20:40goffaalthough there is good money in that
19:20:52bluebrotherhehe ... you know that shirt saying "no, I won't fix your windows"?
19:21:07goffayeah.. i gotta get that
19:21:37rasheramiconn: Did you ever see my battery-graph maker thing? ("> It reads battery_bench outputs. Should I add that to the Runtime wiki page, and should I change the format of the graph?
19:21:43goffai tried to refer work to others... i got my ass chewed out
19:23:24goffaby the customer.. not the people working
19:23:50RaeNyemoos: amiconn said he's gonna add lcd routines to the X5 remote LCD basis, so please help him with testing
19:24:25amiconnRaeNye: I can't test on device myself, and someone needs to write the low-level driver (the actual lcd access)
19:24:37LinusNi can do that
19:24:44 Join CYPER^ [0] (
19:25:02RaeNyeamiconn: low-level access is on tracker
19:25:08RaeNyeand moos has a remote
19:25:09CYPER^I really need help
19:25:15CYPER^how to change that: %xl|d|volume.bmp|0|0|
19:25:24CYPER^so that it shows volume from 0 to 100
19:25:37Mooslike always, I'm rady (and happy to test)
19:25:39LinusNRaeNye: i have a remote
19:26:11midkayCYPER^: basically, you can't. you can display %pv which is the level in dB..
19:26:24Moosamiconn: still have the x5 lcd asm optimisations in mind too ? :)
19:27:01RaeNyelinusn: yes, but amiconn said earlier he'd write the drawing routines needed.
19:27:26LinusNsure, but i can verify that the low-level transfers work
19:27:30CYPER^midkay so the only 2 ways are in dB or set of images
19:27:56CYPER^why not from 0 to 100 - it's more meaningful
19:27:56RaeNyegreat. then please make use of the low-level code on flyspray
19:28:26midkayCYPER^: not to some people at all.
19:28:36LinusNRaeNye: i'll have a look at it
19:28:40RaeNyecyper^: 0 to 100 is meaningLESS. dB has a sound (pun intended) meaning behind it
19:28:40bluebrotherCYPER^, because it's the range the hardware supports natively, not some strange mapping to percent.
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19:29:04LinusNCYPER^: 0-100 is not meaningful at all to me
19:29:21 Join Ribs [0] (
19:29:34bluebrotherfor example, the iriver has a range from -84dB to 0dB. Mapping that to 0-100 would be ... strange.
19:29:46RaeNyelinusn: 10x. But I care more about the other patches :)
19:29:46CYPER^What If I create 10 images each showing exact percent?
19:29:55RaeNyethat will work
19:30:13midkaythen you have 0%, 10%, 20%....
19:30:23midkayso saying "exact percent" is quite.. hm..
19:30:26midkaynot sure of the word.
19:30:27CYPER^yes, that's a nice idea :)
19:30:35 Join xmixahlx [0] (n=xmixahlx@
19:30:38CYPER^percent is quite specific :)
19:30:40midkayinaccurate, almost useless..
19:30:50CYPER^why inaccurate?
19:30:50linuxstbCYPER^: Which player do you have?
19:30:53midkaysure, but is it if you have 0% and 100% and nothing else?
19:30:55RaeNyeThe problem with that is you see it updating once per ~4 clicks
19:30:57CYPER^percent is OK for everything
19:31:14bluebrotherCYPER^, I disagree :)
19:31:28CYPER^100% is max volume
19:31:30rasherbluebrother: you're one of the manual people, right?
19:31:32CYPER^0% is no volume
19:31:35 Join hardeep [0] (
19:31:37bluebrotherrasher, yes.
19:31:51linuxstbCYPER^: And 0dB is no gain.
19:32:00rasherbluebrother: how about having a way to show that a section is for blind people (such as an explanation of where buttons are, etc)
19:32:03RaeNyethe only meaning of percent here is HW capabilities.
19:32:12rasherbluebrother: so that sighted users understand what the section is there for
19:32:35bluebrotheryou mean something like the note symbols? Nice idea.
19:32:36PaulJamCYPER^: but for example on iriver, would 50% mean -42dB or -10dB or -6dB ore something else?
19:32:46rasherI'd be quite confused if a regular manual gave me a detailed explanation of the buttons etc.
19:32:55rasherbluebrother: something like that yes
19:33:02CYPER^<PaulJam> doesn't matter to me: 80% still be loud
19:33:38bluebrotherCYPER^, if you just think of 80% as "loud", why can't you do so with -20dB?
19:34:05 Part xmixahlx ("blah blah blah")
19:34:09CYPER^that's less loud and I guess will be 60%
19:34:26CYPER^also from what I've learned in school 100dB is like human screaming
19:34:31CYPER^160dB is jet plane
19:35:00RaeNyeCYPER^: once you're used to it, you're device independent. You know you like listening to music at XXX dB
19:35:11bluebrotherCYPER^, that's a different kind of dB. 0dB means no amplification, thus everything you hardware can produce.
19:35:38 Join rconan [0] (n=richard@
19:35:44rasher../../tools/configure: line 175: test: -gt: unary operator expected .. what the..
19:35:57rasher(that's the endianness check)
19:35:58CYPER^so above 0dB is increased by the firmware?
19:35:59RaeNyeyou have to combine the song dB value with the amplification (=gain) the HW does
19:36:18MoosRaeNye: any luck for your patches about other platforms?
19:36:26rasherbluebrother: that's correct
19:36:41linuxstbCYPER^: Some hardware allows gain > 0dB, but there is a risk of clipping. A percentage scale on those devices would make even less sense...
19:37:07rasher"This one goes to 110%!"
19:37:08RaeNyemoos: devenv ain't ready yet
19:37:14CYPER^then it's not good to listen over 0dB?
19:37:25linuxstbNo - that's the point.
19:37:27MoosRaeNye: k
19:37:38CYPER^I got it now
19:37:47bluebrotherrasher, has it been working with that 2 directory levels before? I think I can remeber I had some problems with using more than the suggested 1 level.
19:37:51CYPER^the real values are from minus something to 0 dB
19:38:01CYPER^the real hardware output
19:38:32rasherbluebrother: Yeah, it's been working fine. It's my windows-simulator building script.. I can only guess it's some mingw32 deal possibly
19:38:41rashernow that I think of it
19:38:44bluebrotherah, ok.
19:38:46CYPER^ok, then I can forget about that idea :D
19:39:39 Join goffa_ [0] (n=goffa@
19:39:47goffa_router puked
19:39:48rasherbluebrother: Luckily, the if is turned the right way around, so when the check fails, it defaults to the right endianness
19:39:50 Join Slasheri [0] (i=miipekk@rockbox/developer/Slasheri)
19:40:10rasherrockbox/developer/Slasheri .. how's that work?
19:41:19muesli__high Slasheri
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19:42:23rasherbluebrother: Any objections to putting a description of the buttons under the image in chapter 2? (for blind)
19:42:56CYPER^One big question: Can I delete songs from the iPod?
19:43:05CYPER^without the use of computer
19:43:05goffa_btw bluebrother is there a variable that i can change to set enque as a default action?
19:43:09rasherCYPER^: Sure
19:43:11oboCYPER^: yes
19:43:25CYPER^what about selecting many songs and delete all of them?
19:43:37goffa_or anyone for that matter
19:43:37oboyou can delete complete folders
19:43:41bluebrotherrasher, no. I was already thinking of that.
19:43:59CYPER^that will be ok If I can move these many songs in one folder
19:44:02rasherbluebrother: I'll just go ahead and do that, then (from pictures, will need to have someone look at the descriptions)
19:44:18bluebrotherrasher, great.
19:44:20rasherThis is easy/boring work, I'll do that and you can do something more useful
19:44:55rasherNo images of the ipods yet?
19:45:14rasherI guess that's a stupid question, I can see that, but why?
19:47:41rasherbluebrother: is there a list of the various macros/variables in the wiki somewhere?
19:48:02 Quit goffa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:48:20goffa_heh.. i must've been ghosted
19:48:25bluebrotherrasher, see the LatexGuidelines page.
19:48:48bluebrotherit's mostly complete for what we've added.
19:49:48 Quit KylePV ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
19:49:55rasherAh, I see.. how about the variables used for \opt?
19:50:07bluebrothernobody has made images for ipods (IIRC x5 also). As the primary goal is to get in sync for 3.0 I don't consider them important (yet)
19:50:19bluebrotherlook into the definitions in platform/*.tex
19:51:10oboany devs got time give me feedback on a couple of patches?
19:51:30 Join mirak [0] (
19:51:42RaeNyeI'll be back when I set my dev-env properly. Bye!
19:51:49 Quit _FireFly_ ("Client exiting")
19:51:58*RaeNye snaps his finger
19:51:59 Quit RaeNye ("CGI:IRC 0.5.7 (2005/06/19)")
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19:52:38 Part muesli__
19:52:43Moos francais update
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19:54:05 Join FireFly_ [0] (
19:54:33 Quit einhirn ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
19:56:28CYPER^funny question: What other cool things can I install?
19:56:32CYPER^no games please :)
19:59:25bluebrothernothing :)
19:59:28 Join ryran [0] (
19:59:30CYPER^cool :D
19:59:42sharpe`the games are included. :)
19:59:46bluebrotheryou can install plugins that are written for rockbox. Some are floating around.
19:59:55CYPER^I don't play them anyway :)
20:00:13bluebrotherseeing doom on a h120 is kinda cool (but useless)
20:00:14Moosplay music then ;)
20:00:29CYPER^what about files sorting: on one screen the artist and on the next screen the song titles from one artist
20:00:41CYPER^like with the original apple firmware
20:00:53CYPER^I'll check it :)
20:01:04 Join klrspz [0] (n=klrSpz@
20:01:07sharpe`hooray for one word answers.
20:01:54bluebrothersharpe`, I was just about saying the same thing (but I wanted to use two words for the answer so I was slower)
20:02:50CYPER^So now one song is playing and I can't go back to the very first screen, where the rockbox folder is + one folder with songs
20:03:08CYPER^or how can I go there
20:03:10sharpe`which player?
20:03:15CYPER^iPod 4GB
20:03:23CYPER^ops 4G
20:03:24bluebrotherwhen enabling tagcache you'll see that screen, not the file browser anymore.
20:03:42CYPER^but I haven't installed Tagcache yet
20:03:45sharpe`press the select button to get to the folder view, then left to go up a folder level
20:03:50 Quit rconan (Client Quit)
20:04:10bluebrotherCYPER^, may I recommend you the manual?
20:04:24CYPER^bluebrother probably yes :D
20:04:29CYPER^but is easier to ask :D
20:04:41bluebrotherhave you installed a recent build? There was a bug that triggered when you switched to the database view and back.
20:05:04bluebrother(which has been fixed some days ago)
20:05:25CYPER^the Latest
20:06:15CYPER^how can I make certain folders don't show?
20:06:20CYPER^like .rockbox
20:06:24CYPER^and iPod control
20:06:43CYPER^make them hidden doesn't help I think
20:06:46rasherYou can't on a folder-by-folder basis
20:07:10CYPER^cause in the root I have icon.ico
20:07:15rasherif you select "Show files: supported" .rockbox will be hidden, don't know about ipod_control
20:07:18CYPER^and autorun.inf
20:07:46CYPER^Found It
20:08:03CYPER^with "Supported" rockbox is not hidden
20:08:13bluebrotheruse "music"
20:08:39CYPER^that's what I was thinking :D
20:09:02CYPER^just perfect :)
20:09:05CYPER^I love it :)
20:09:33CYPER^just now I realized holding the select button does something :D
20:09:44CYPER^for deleting folders :)
20:10:49 Quit sharpe` ("Leaving")
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20:13:19 Quit scorche (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
20:13:29amiconnrasher, CYPER^ Rockbox hides folder having the 'hidden' attribute set, and .dotfolders, unless you set 'show files' to 'all'
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20:22:46rasherhrm, how do I remove a BOM with vim?
20:22:48 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
20:23:03Mikachu:set encoding=latin1
20:24:59rasherthat doesn't seem to be doing much of anything
20:25:40Mikachui don't think i have any files to test on
20:26:04rasherthe attachment to has one
20:26:49Mikachuit's displayed in vim for me, as <feff>
20:27:03Mikachuand iirc utf8 isn't supposed to have BOM
20:27:24rasherwhich is why it needs to go
20:27:26 Join tinodeleste [0] (
20:27:39rasherI guess my vim is lacking some setup or other
20:27:46rasherI'm going to blame debian for that
20:28:39 Quit _FireFly_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:28:46Mikachui'm sending it on dcc
20:29:19 Join _FireFly_ [0] (
20:29:24rasheramazingly, dcc worked, for once
20:29:52amiconnWhy is it amazing?
20:29:56Mikachuit usually doesn't
20:30:07Mikachuis predilection a word that you can use in english without getting weird looks?
20:30:11rasherThere always seems to be something in the way of dcc working
20:30:13amiconndcc always works if it's configured correctly
20:30:17Mikachuthe swedish counterpart isn't uncommon, just looked it up
20:31:54 Part LinusN
20:32:09CYPER^is there a Sleep button or something?
20:32:34CYPER^I saw in the settings the auto-sleep
20:32:55CYPER^but what about putting it in sleep mode any time I want?
20:33:13rasherThere is no sleep mode
20:33:17rasheryou just turn it off
20:33:48rasherI don't know the Ipod controls
20:33:51 Quit MarcoPolo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:33:55linuxstbCYPER^: Hold PLAY for a few seconds.
20:34:14CYPER^thank you linuxstb
20:34:39 Quit FireFly_ ("Leaving")
20:34:46CYPER^so there isn't that Sleep option
20:34:59rasherThe Sleep option turns off the ipod as well
20:34:59CYPER^you have to turn it off and then on: has to load its firmware again
20:35:12CYPER^no it's different with the apple firmware
20:35:18CYPER^it's very quick
20:35:24CYPER^less than 1 second
20:35:29CYPER^sleep on-sleep of
20:35:32rasherRockbox boots very quick as well - no need for a sleep mode
20:35:55CYPER^yeah, It's quite quick :)
20:36:03CYPER^I can live with that :)
20:36:44CYPER^is it normal to show the apple logo when booting up?
20:36:57 Part tinodeleste
20:37:42Mikachuthe ipods always do that when actually booting
20:38:04Mikachui think the only way to actually turn off a stock ipod is to wait 24 or 36 hours
20:39:04CYPER^in the settings there are 2: Sleep Timer & Idle Poweroff
20:39:13CYPER^there should be a difference
20:39:19CYPER^what is it?
20:39:23Mikachusleep timer is something else
20:39:36Mikachui think it's for actually turning the music off while it's playing
20:39:45CYPER^aaaaaa got it :)
20:40:02CYPER^yeah when you want to listen while going to sleep :)
20:40:03rasherBagder: Would it make sense at this point to claim the contents of the Wiki to be GFDL (or similar) licensed?
20:40:27CYPER^no to who?
20:40:50CYPER^not to me :)
20:41:00rasherThe thing is, the wiki contents are under _no_ license currently.. it's a huge mess, really
20:41:30rasherUnless there was some disclaimer somewhere that I missed
20:41:35GaloisI'm afraid you can't fix this mess simply by fiat
20:41:38Galoisnot legally, anyway
20:42:03Mikachuit comes down to who owns the copyright on what's written there by users
20:42:28Galoisin the absence of any statement to the contrary, it's owned by the users who contributed it
20:42:30rasherLegally, we can't even change the pages, if the copyright is owned by each owner
20:42:41Galoisit's a legal gray area, but I think it is legal
20:42:50 Join Febs [0] (
20:42:59linuxstbAny lawyers around?
20:43:06Mikachuthe history keeps track of who wrote what so i don't think editing is an issue, but i'm just guessing :)
20:43:15Galoisa wiki is by now well established as a publicly editable forum, so one has a very strong case that posting on a wiki constitutes implied license to edit the post
20:43:44Mooslinuxstb: yellow build
20:43:47Galoisas well as implied license to serve up copies of the post on the wiki
20:43:53*goffa_ points behind the lawyers and exclaims, "hey look over there!"
20:43:57goffa_quick change it :)
20:44:00CYPER^can I use the ipod, while connected to the PC and showingDo not disconnect?
20:44:00linuxstbMoos: More yellow than normal?
20:44:11Mooshehe :)
20:44:25rasherI wonder how many of the contributers are reachable by email.. it would be nice to sort this mess out
20:44:25MoosSID codec added news
20:44:26Galoisreplacing an implied license with an explicit license such as the GFDL, however, is not a gray area, that's just flat out illegal without consent of the copyright owners
20:44:45linuxstbDamn - I compiled it for the Player, but didn't notice the warning....
20:45:01rasherGalois: I know.. it was more of a "what on earth can be done" than anything else
20:45:12rasherhaving it be GFDL would be nice for the manual writers..
20:45:25Galoisusually what people do in this situation is contact every contributor and throw out all contributions that don't garner a response from the contributor
20:45:50Galoisif you only need to borrow a few sections in the manula, it would be reasonable to contact only people who wrote stuff that you want to use
20:45:51rasherGalois: I like the sound of that
20:46:26rasherIt would be nice to have an explicit license on the whole thing
20:47:00Mikachuyou can put a note somewhere saying "all copyrights on entered texts are transferred to us etc", but it would only apply from that date obviously
20:47:19Moosisn't Febs our layer? :)
20:47:22linuxstbrasher: I agree, licenses are good, and an email to all contributors seems the only way to do it.
20:47:35linuxstbMikachu: There is no "us".
20:47:51Mikachuwhat if someone writes something on the wiki and marks it immutable?
20:48:09rasherWell, GDFL with no immutable sections
20:48:11Mikachutechnically the owner of the server then
20:48:16linuxstbMikachu: Individual authors would retain copyright, but agree to license it under the GFDL.
20:48:18ryrando any of you know anything about the sid patch that was just committed? as in.. uhh.. what the hell is sid? (I'm searching with little luck.)
20:48:25 Quit _FireFly_ ("Client exiting")
20:48:25Galoisseriously guys, the GFDL is not such a good license
20:48:32 Part Paul_The_Nerd
20:48:37Mikachuryran: old school musics
20:48:44GaloisI used to use the GFDL, but I avoid it now
20:48:47ryranwell yeah.. I figured that much
20:48:49rasherryran: music for Commodore 64
20:49:04 Join _FireFly_ [0] (
20:49:06Mikachufilesizes usually range 1-5 kB
20:49:10ryranohhh.. because of sound interface device.. okay
20:49:19rasherGalois: I don't know much about it, only mentioned it because the manual is licensed like that
20:49:20linuxstbryran: Try
20:49:30 Quit _FireFly_ (Client Quit)
20:49:53GaloisI don't think it's such a good license for the manual either.
20:50:05 Join _FireFly_ [0] (
20:50:09bluebrotherthere is also a nice article on wikipedia on the sid chip.
20:50:10ryranso here's a silly question. are decoders loaded into ram by rockbox.. like.. when they're not in use?
20:50:23Febs[14:47] <Moos> isn't Febs our layer?
20:50:27rasherGalois: What's a good license?
20:50:29linuxstbryran: Yes, all the codecs are plugins.
20:50:30Mikachui think 512kB or so are always reserved for decoders
20:50:39MoosFebs: just kidding ;)
20:50:41rasherryran: they're only loaded when in use
20:50:43Mikachubut only one is loaded at a time
20:50:46Galoiscreative commons share-alike by-attribution
20:51:01rasherSounds good, really.. for the wiki also
20:51:13FebsI'm a just *A* lawyer who happens to like Rockbox.
20:51:26rasher(other than the CC naming scheme being crack)
20:51:38Moosand help it in law way then ;)
20:51:43Galoisyeah, well, the name sucks
20:51:59 Join uski [0] (
20:52:15 Quit austriancoder ("Kopete 0.11.1 :")
20:52:36rasherAt least the Manual has a smaller set of contributors
20:53:01GaloisI strongly recommend getting the manual writers to agree on CC by-sa
20:53:09Galoisthe GFDL isn't even a copyleft license.
20:53:56Galoisthe point of copyleft is that if I make any changes to the manual then you will be able to use those changes too. Well, that's not true with the GFDL.
20:54:02Mooswhat's happened with CVS builds?
20:54:23linuxstbMoos: ?
20:54:34linuxstbAh, the links at the bottom...
20:55:00Mikachui think they get lost during a build
20:55:06Moosoh, I was trying to dowload one compiled build, but probably at same time than your fix linuxstb
20:55:15linuxstbMaybe they disappear when a new build starts. It's been so long since this amount of activity....
20:55:19rasherGalois: I tend to agree, though without knowing the details of GFDL..
20:55:21rasherlinuxstb: they do
20:55:38rasherso you can get your build as soon as it's ready
20:55:51rasher(and know that it's really fresh)
20:55:55*linuxstb waits patiently...
20:55:57Moosthey appear one by one depending of how many already compiled
20:56:22Galoiswell, the most obvious detail is that I can add an invariant section, which you can't use. This holds true even if your manual has no invariant sections, because the GFDL allows anyone to add invariant sections.
20:56:26obolinuxstb: fancy looking at another patch (or three ;) ) ??
20:56:38linuxstbobo: No. I think I'm patched out for today...
20:56:39rasherGalois: ah, well that's.. just stupid really
20:56:48obohehe, no worries
20:56:58ryranooo.. whatchyou got cooking obo?
20:57:14Galoisless obvious, but even worse IMO, is that an invariant section restricts the contents of _even the regular sections_
20:57:18oboah, just the normal collection... unplug, audioscrobbler and piezo driver
20:57:56 Quit TheOtherCerf (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
20:58:07ryran... piezo driver?
20:58:15oboclicker in retailOS
20:58:16ryranlink? color me curious
20:58:37obo5111 - it doesn't actually add it in a usable way, but that can be done afterwards
20:58:57Mikachui have funny clicky sounds in brickmania and tetrox
20:58:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:59:07oboMikachu: ;)
20:59:09Mikachufeels like playing atari st or something
20:59:33FebsDamn it. I just typed make clean instead of make zip.
20:59:50oboFebs: no ccache?
21:00:07 Join Febs_ [0] (
21:00:07 Quit Febs ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
21:00:25Febs_I've already started to build again, so it's a moot point.
21:00:38 Nick Febs_ is now known as Febs (
21:01:03Moosbye all
21:01:09 Quit Moos ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
21:04:35rasherbluebrother: I give up. I wrote the section for the h120 (the only player I own), but I'm banging my head against the wall trying to describe the player
21:04:39rasherPlayer, that is
21:04:55rasherI'll commit this with a fixme for other daps
21:05:17bluebrotherrasher, nice to have some work done on this anyway.
21:05:35*rasher has an idea
21:05:53rasherHow about generating a report of fixmes in the manual, so people can see where help is needed?
21:06:00rashershould be pretty easy to hack up
21:06:17bluebrothermaybe a blind person can describe it better as they should know best what's really important to blind people.
21:06:23bluebrotherrasher, great idea.
21:07:15bluebrotherI'm already counting various things when building the manual so this shouldn't be too hard.
21:07:55rashergrep -r fixme is actually almost usable on its own
21:08:54rashera bit of automated cleanup, and converting it to WikiForm
21:11:15 Quit ryran ("hasta la pasta!")
21:12:35pixelmaI put together some information especially about Ondio - I just wanted amiconn to have a look on it first if there's something wrong - please remind him :)
21:21:06rasherbluebrother: ManualFixmes sound good for a pagename?
21:21:25 Join MarcoPolo [0] (
21:23:21bluebrothersounds good.
21:26:35 Quit Poka64 ("brb")
21:27:51rasherThere, created
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21:36:03 Join juxtap [0] (n=juxtap@
21:37:37juxtapis it possible for ipods to have an audio input? (with adapters and such)
21:40:32FebsJuxtap, yes. As I understand, this is done through the dock connector on 5G ipods, and through the headphone jack on others.
21:41:41juxtapcool. i got 5g. you know where i can get such an adapter? i'd wanna use a mini-jack input. (3.5mm)
21:41:51rasheramiconn: is a graph such as this:"> of any use or should I change how the graph is set up?
21:41:52linuxstbNo-one seems to sell them...
21:42:22juxtapis there a rockbox pluging to record input streams? :]
21:42:35linuxstbjuxtap: Also, Rockbox doesn't yet support recording on the 5g. For the original firmware to record, you'll need to buy one of the official "italk" type of accessories.
21:43:02juxtapah... but you said "yet" so i'm happy
21:43:18linuxstbYes, ipod recording is now top of my Rockbox to-do list, and I own both a 5g and home-made line-in adapter...
21:43:58juxtapheh, make some more and sell on ebay
21:44:04juxtapi'll buy
21:44:18linuxstbActually, someone made it for me. Maybe he'll be selling them if I can get it working...
21:45:19CYPER^can I use the ipod, while connected to the PC and showingDo not disconnect?
21:46:27 Quit izzledizzler (" HydraIRC -> <-")
21:52:46juxtapCYPER^, i think hold 'menu' before and while inserting the cable (for ipod)
21:53:01juxtapi know that works with my usb/ac adapter thing, never tried with pc
21:53:46CYPER^I'll try :)
21:54:35 Join scorche [0] (
21:55:05 Quit MarcoPolo ("Bye !")
21:57:36CYPER^One theme for iPod 4G is not working properly :(
21:58:03 Quit Ribs (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:58:43 Join Ribs [0] (
22:00:04PaulJam"not working properly" is a helpful description for your problem.
22:00:24Mikachui got a hardcore bugreport for openbox the other day, "it crashes"
22:00:38 Join RedBreva [0] (
22:00:43pixelmaCYPER^: if you mean the battery level icon.. that's been discussed before with the Engineer2.wps - redbreva is a rework of this
22:00:49sharpeMikachu: wow.
22:01:00Mikachuhe used a few more words, but no more info
22:01:17sharpenot even about what makes it crash?
22:01:24Mikachuit seems to crash on startup
22:01:31 Join cs_weasel [0] (
22:01:39sharpemm, i can safely say i don't use openbox...
22:01:53cs_weaseli just wanted to drop in and profess some love for the new SID codec
22:01:57Mikachufor him that is, it obviously works fine for me
22:02:08cs_weaselit's awesome having the whole 33,000+ track high voltage sid collection on my nano :)
22:02:34 Quit rasher ("leaving")
22:12:10 Quit _FireFly_ ("Client exiting")
22:14:58*goffa_ is liking the feature flood :)
22:16:13PaulJami just had an idea: would it be possible to show a splash screen if the user loads a .cfg with a font specified that isn't installed. Because most times people report that a wps isn't working is because they haven't installed the fonts and such a splash screen would point them in the right direction.
22:16:14 Join Daishi [0] (
22:16:47 Part bagawk
22:17:28 Quit Hansmaulwurf ("( :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: )")
22:17:40PaulJamanother thing concerning fonts: in my opinion the german translation of "fonts" schould be "Schriftart" instead of "Zeichensatz"
22:19:39 Join Myth1 [0] (
22:19:53Myth1hi gubys
22:22:33goffa_hi Myth1
22:24:33 Quit uski (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:29:32Myth1Hmm. In the simulator I get "no .rockbox dir", although there is definately a .rockbox directory in my current dir.
22:29:38Myth1Any idea what is causing this?
22:30:02bluebrotherhave you made a "make install"?
22:30:13Myth1what does the make install do?
22:30:25Myth1where does it get installed?
22:30:26bluebrotheralso, .rockbox should be below the archos folder of you sim dir.
22:30:39bluebrotherit installs rockbox into archos
22:30:46bluebrotheri.e. the rockbox stuff the sim needs.
22:31:04Myth1why does it go into the archos dir when I have an iriver?
22:31:52bluebrotherbecause archos was initially developed for archos devices.
22:32:14bluebrotherand the folder is still named archos. Just do a make install, it does anything for you.
22:32:28Myth1ok, it now works
22:32:31Myth1thanks for the hint
22:33:07 Join yodaz [0] (
22:33:12yodazhi all
22:33:34 Quit Ribs ("Leaving")
22:34:38yodazI wonder why the ipod needs two partition, and the primary partition type must be "hidden" ? is it possible to install only rockbox firmware with one partition, by passing a dummy image instead of the apple firmware for example ?
22:36:03 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
22:36:46goffa_i could be stating incorrect facts.. but i don'th think rockbox can go on hfs or whatever the ipod uses
22:36:59goffa_so it needs fat or whatever
22:37:21goffa_and that's why it needs the partition
22:37:23yodazbut if there is only one fat32 partition on the ipod ?
22:37:36goffa_(bullshit light could be flashing)
22:37:52yodaz(I have an ipod mini 1st gen)
22:38:02sharpethere is only one fat partition on the ipod. the other is space reserved for the apple firmware/etc.
22:38:09PaulJamit could be that the apple bootloader relies on the first hidden partition.
22:38:11goffa_ok.. so i was wrong
22:38:18 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
22:38:23yodazbut is it possible to completely remove this partition, if don't need apple firmware ?
22:38:39sharpethe bootloader resides there also
22:38:45goffa_but PaulJam's statement was why i thought that
22:38:55pixelmaamiconn did get rid of Apple OS on his mini though I don't know how
22:38:57linuxstb_yodaz: No. The apple bootloader looks for that partition, and loads the Rockbox bootloader (and appleos) from it.
22:39:07yodazlinuxstb_: ok
22:39:10PaulJamwith apple bootloader i meant the bootloader in the flash
22:39:21goffa_proably best to leave it anyway in case you need warranty
22:39:28sharpei believe he just relplaced the apple firmware image with a 512 byte empty file... if i remember correctly.
22:39:31linuxstb_If you don't want appleos, you can use a dummy apple_os.bin as you suggested, and shrink the first partition to (e.g.) 1MB.
22:39:36yodazgoffa_: my warranty is over :)
22:39:46sharpeeh, close enough.
22:39:47yodazlinuxstb_: ok, thx for the tip
22:40:07yodazvery interesting =)
22:41:13*amiconn experimented with the minimum size of a dummy apple_os.bin
22:41:20amiconnIirc it needs to be at least 64 byte
22:43:02linuxstb_Did you try shrinking the first partition?
22:43:22yodazlinuxstb_: I am trying
22:43:48 Join TeaSeaLancs [0] (
22:44:18 Quit TeaSea (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
22:45:30dan_alinuxstb_: When you have a spare moment, could you review this patch:
22:45:33amiconnlinuxstb: nope
22:45:52amiconnPerhaps I should... the hidden partition is quite a waste on a mini
22:46:25 Join klrspz [0] (n=klrSpz@
22:49:37yodazlinuxstb_: hmm I have problem, I can not mount the sda2 (fat32) partition
22:49:58yodazhere is my fdisk : /dev/sda1 1 1 3875 0 Empty
22:50:06yodaz/dev/sda2 1 1023 3995807 b W95 FAT32
22:53:37yodazI have formatted sda2 with mkfs.vfat -F 32
22:54:37Myth1hmm, in the simulator I get "sdl_audio_callback: No data" and the sound hangs. Where is this coming from?
22:54:51Myth1last time I tried the simulator it just worked
22:56:06linuxstb_yodaz: Unless I'm misreading, your partition table places both sda1 and sda2 starting at cylinder 1...
22:56:30yodazsda2 must began at cylinder 2 ?
22:56:40Paul_The_NerdWell, it shouldn't begin at the same spot as the other partition...
22:57:02 Quit _Veseliq_ (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
22:57:14yodazsorry for the newbie question, but I doesn't know very well the hard drive structure
22:59:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:00:28 Join webguest91 [0] (
23:00:49Myth1if I do cvs diff, what was best practice for rockbox. -u, -u2 or -u3?
23:01:17linuxstb_-u and -u3 should be the same (the default is 3). -u3 seems to be most used.
23:01:38Myth1ok, then i stick to -u
23:01:48linuxstb_dan_a: Patch looks good to me.
23:02:06Febslinuxstb: I saw earlier that you mentioned you had an input device for ipod. Did you get it from
23:02:42dan_alinuxstb_: Thanks! I'm not 100% sure I've not broken things for other iPods, but it works for me
23:02:52linuxstb_I think it was, or something like that. The guy that runs the site donated it to Rockbox/me.
23:03:19 Join lee-qid [0] (
23:03:35 Quit webguest91 (Client Quit)
23:03:42linuxstb_Sorry, you're right - it was
23:04:09Myth1If I want to add a new file using diff, what the exact command, again? Something like "diff /dev/null mod.c >> test.diff" - unfortunately I forgot my paper ;)
23:04:30linuxstb_diff -u /dev/null mod.c >> test.diff
23:04:39 Join MarcoPolo [0] (
23:04:49linuxstb_(but I'm not sure if the -u is important for new files)
23:04:59yodazit works =) thanks a lot guy
23:05:00linuxstb_But it should probably be the same as the rest of the diff.
23:05:14Myth1I removed the -u and it did not put the file information header in the diff file
23:05:53linuxstb_Your previous patches should tell you what diff command you used.
23:06:47Myth1yes it works
23:06:55Myth1it was the -u option
23:06:57Myth1thanks ;)
23:07:36Myth1I'll upload a new mod-diff, because the current one does not comply with the sid-update
23:08:09linuxstb_Did you notice the change I had to make in metadata.c?
23:08:41 Join Juxt [0] (
23:09:00 Join Mmmm [0] (
23:09:03Myth1Yes, I have to admit, I didn't see this myself ;)
23:09:17S0apNot to beat a dead horse, but as much as I love the fact volume is displayed in dB, it is a bit inaccurate to say this makes volume level device-independent. Even using the same cans, some players can drive high-impedance cans better than others, so what might be quiet on my ipod at -20db could be quite loud on another device.
23:09:17Myth1the new mod-diff now also applies to the correct section
23:09:58Myth1-20db is quite load for my ears ;)
23:10:26bluebrotherFebs, I have a working HTML manual :) Now the build needs to be adjusted.
23:10:43FebsGreat work!
23:11:12bluebrotherthe documentation of tex4ht is ... short.
23:11:12Myth1btw: when developing the sid codec I tried a buggy version with ear-phones on. And unfortunately something went wrong so volume was at 0db. My ears rang even 1 week later.
23:11:13yodazhmm I don't wanna be annoying, but I have another strange question, is there a way to write the rockbox bootloader directly on the ipod flash memory ?
23:11:59Paul_The_NerdS0ap: Well, it makes volume as device-independent as you can make it, at least.
23:12:02linuxstb_yodaz: No.
23:12:33FebsNow that you have html manual working, we can probably get rid of the existing WikiManual and replace it with device-specific html manuals.
23:13:34linuxstb_yodaz: It may be possible in the future, but at the moment we leave the flash unmodified. That way, it's always possible to undo a Rockbox installation.
23:13:34bluebrotherwould be an option, but this also removes the possibility of users adding corrections.
23:13:49FebsS0ap: it makes the volume level independent in the sense of where clipping will occur, not necessarily in terms of SPL.
23:13:57yodazlinuxstb_: ok :)
23:14:06bluebrotherIf we had something like the documentation on it would be a good alternative.
23:15:30FebsThe WikiManual is already outdated, and no-one has been updating since the PDF manual project began, so I don't know if losing the ability for users to edit it is a big deal.
23:15:42S0apFebs - Paul_The_Nerd - yea, I realize both those valid points, dispite my disclaimer I am guilty not only of reading 5 hours up, but of beating that dead horse and nitpicking, sorry :)
23:16:07yodazlinuxstb_: anyway you have already made an very useful work by porting rockbox to ipod =)
23:16:12Paul_The_NerdS0ap: That horse has been beaten so many times, it's little more than a pile of bone-dust these days.
23:16:13yodazthx a lot for that
23:16:18bluebrotherhmm. I think having the ability would attract more users in actually telling us in some way that there is something wrong.
23:16:20Febsbluebrother: I think that it's more important to keep the PDF manual and the html manual in synch.
23:16:31bluebrothergood point.
23:17:32FebsWe could put a statement in the introduction to the effect of "Notice a mistake or omission in the manual? Report it here:"
23:18:09Juxtok i give up on finding an h140 and think im going to settle for an iaudio x5
23:18:18bluebrothermaybe we just could go with the html manual and try adding a user comments functions later.
23:18:36bluebrotherdo you have a deeper knowledge of the building system itself?
23:18:54FebsI have no knowledge of the build system. I think that bagder is the person to talk to about that.
23:19:32bluebrotherthe problem is we need to decide with manual to build. Up to now "make" always triggers the same build target.
23:20:10bluebrotherI was also thinking about how we should grab the resulting files itself out of the tree. Should there be a downloadable version of the html manual?
23:20:29goffa_Juxt: are the 140's getting that scarce?
23:20:39 Quit lostnihilist (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:20:44goffa_used to be a ton on ebay not 3 months ago
23:21:01TeaSeaLancsgoffa_: Probably! Either that or Juxt isn't in America or somewhere where there are a lot of them.
23:21:21Myth1Concerning the simulator: Should the sound output work correctly or is there a bug known?
23:21:40 Quit ender` (" Cynic, n.: A blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be. Hence the custom among the Scy)
23:21:45linuxstb_Febs, bluebrother: You can just introduce extra targets in the Makefile - so "make pdf" will make the PDF file, "make html" will make the html version.
23:21:56bluebrotherMyth1, I also have problems with the sound output −− it regularly complains about an empty buffer.
23:22:05Myth1bluebrother: Exactly!
23:22:15Myth1but it worked fine two months ago
23:22:17PaulJamMyth1: i get the "sdl_audio_callback: No data" errors too.
23:22:27Myth1yeah, same error here
23:22:49bluebrotherMyth1, I simply haven't looked into it. I mainly used it for screenshots recently, so sound wasn't important.
23:22:54PaulJamand yes, some tome ago the sim worked without problems
23:23:10Myth1ok, if its known someone will hopefully fix it ;)
23:23:24MmmmWhen I do a cvs commit it seems to work fine but I get this message: "cvs commit: Using deprecated info format strings. Convert your scripts to use the new argument format and remove '1's from your info file format strings." Is this normal or is it an error message?
23:23:25Juxtgoffa - i am in the US but i can't find them.... 1 on ebay and one on nulime for $500
23:23:36Myth1because developing codecs with a buggy simulator sound is not much fun :(
23:24:31Juxtthere are actually a few on ebay but they are in australia and i dont want to deal with that. the other one on ebay from the US is already @ $200 with 3 days left...
23:24:33 Join ender` [0] (i=null@
23:24:47linuxstb_Mmmm: That's normal (at least, I always get those message..)
23:25:03Mmmmoh good..that's a relief! :)
23:25:41 Join KylePV [0] (
23:25:42linuxstb_Myth1: Sadly the simulator audio problems have been there for a while, and no-one's managed to fix it.
23:26:26RedBrevajuxt: I have a H140 that will soon be surplus to requirments... contact me by e-mail if you are interested
23:27:30Juxtsurplus to requirements ?
23:27:44Juxtand how soon is soon for you ?
23:28:15 Join Amien [0] (
23:28:53RedBrevaI have just brought a iPod 60GB, once I am happy that it's working OK, I will no longer use the H140... a week or two
23:29:10 Join [1]Juxt [0] (
23:29:14 Quit Juxt (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:29:14 Nick [1]Juxt is now known as Juxt (
23:29:40Juxtjust ogt booted - redbreva, if you replied please say it agin
23:29:54RedBrevaI have just brought a iPod 60GB, once I am happy that it's working OK, I will no longer use the H140... a week or two
23:30:23RedBrevaI am on vaccation to Turkey in early August, so before then...
23:30:27goffa_i like having 2 players
23:30:39RedBrevaI have my Nano too ;-)
23:30:47 Part yodaz
23:31:01goffa_bah.. nano's too small :)
23:31:12goffa_i think of the players as light cd wallets
23:31:27goffa_i'm thinking of getting a third one
23:31:29RedBrevaThe financial controller (wife) does not agree with the redundant hardware theory :-(
23:31:55goffa_yeah.. rough when the boss says no
23:32:13RedBrevaI only got the nano as a 2nd player because I can use it on the treadmill at the gym
23:33:11Juxtred thx for the offer but i want to pick one up this week
23:33:39RedBrevaOK, cool... prolly stick it on ebay next week anyway...
23:34:19Juxti think the x5 is fairly similiar anyway... no major diffs other than the optical in /out which isn't too important to me
23:38:03Amieni removed the %s for non scrolling .. but now the line is too long ... how can i make it shorter?
23:38:27Myth1Bye everyone
23:38:27Paul_The_NerdAmien: Make what shorter?
23:38:31*Myth1 is going to bed
23:38:35 Quit Myth1 ("Verlassend")
23:40:14Amienthat line shows some idtag info of the mp3 .. but no that i remove the %s .. the line is be completly shown .. i need to cut the line .. cause it messes up my theme
23:41:48PaulJamdo the margins only work for scrolling lines?
23:41:53CYPER^why this doesn't show up: %al %?pv<%xdc|%xdd|%xde|%xdf|%xdg>
23:42:10Amienthe margins are good when i use %s
23:44:02CYPER^can I merge one rwps file with another wps file?
23:44:13CYPER^I mean merge the code in these 2 files in 1 file
23:44:36pixelmaCYPER^: the %xd is for showing bitmaps - if you haven't defined these before nothing happens
23:44:38PaulJamAmien: could you make a screendump of how your theme should look? (maybe you can solve the problem by loading the parts of the background that schould not be overlayed by text with the %x|... tag)
23:45:04Paul_The_NerdPaulJam: The patch is called scroll margins. It would surprise me that it only works for scrolling lines, but given the name, not a large surprise.
23:45:17CYPER^pixelma the images are defined in the second file
23:45:26CYPER^that's the zezayer theme
23:46:15Amien ... its that theme
23:47:25 Quit KylePV ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:47:43Amien"One Step too far" if that line is longer .. it will get over the lines ..
23:49:44Juxtdo those themes work on all the players?
23:49:55goffa_Juxt: right now battery life isnt there with x5.. although they will fix that.. i have faith
23:50:05Juxti heard that they did ?
23:50:21goffa_i think that last patch helped
23:50:26Juxtin a patch anyway
23:50:37goffa_but its still not where the h140 is
23:50:49goffa_i've got the x5l... i get like 10 hours
23:50:58goffa_just an average
23:51:09Juxthmm so that puts an non-L at like 5 ?
23:51:21 Quit Amien ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
23:51:24Juxti think i am going to get the 60gb ver which isn't avail in L
23:51:46goffa_yeah... i always thought that was a funny trade off
23:51:50Juxti already have about 26gb of music and add all th etime
23:52:02goffa_it can play a long time OR you can have a lot of music
23:52:46goffa_yeah... i've probably got 1tb of flac.. i compress to ogg for the player
23:52:47A_MIs there an FAQ or something for beginners at rockbox development? (and not just setting up the development environment) I feel like I keep coming up with tons of questions that surely must have been asked millions of times before but I don't know where to look for answers...
23:52:59goffa_well between the 2 players i have 70gb of storage
23:53:10goffa_got a karma with a broken wheel.. so i never use that
23:53:18goffa_that's 20 gb
23:53:38goffa_i have to do a lot of picking and choosing
23:53:49linuxstb_A_M: Not really. Just the documentation you can find in the wiki. But feel free to write one...
23:54:24goffa_i'd like to see a 120gb player with like 35 hours of battery life
23:54:29goffa_i'm thinking that's goin got be a long wait
23:54:35Juxtyeah that is what i am hoping to avoid.... figured i would be spenidng−−- no wasting alot of tim moving music aroun
23:54:49linuxstb_goffa: Three H140s...
23:55:02goffa_the way i've been doing it is nuking tracks i don't like
23:55:08goffa_until i can fit a new album
23:55:18goffa_then you get a higher percentage of what you actually listen to
23:56:04linuxstb_The Archos devices can have 120GB hard drives, and can be used with normal AA batteries... But are limited to MP3s.
23:56:09A_MFor example; are there any general recommendations on what to do instead of malloc? statically allocating for the worst case seems such a waste when the usual case ought to be so far from the worst case...
23:56:15 Quit Kohlrabi (Nick collision from services.)
23:56:25 Join Kohlriba [0] (
23:56:33Mikachuit's not like something else is going to be using the memory in the background
23:58:01linuxstb_A_M: There is no general answer. What are you doing? Can you reduce the memory requirements?

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