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#rockbox log for 2006-07-22

00:00:07randiit's irc. does work ever happen?
00:00:15Paul_The_NerdYou'd be surprised.
00:01:00Paul_The_NerdSome of these guys, notably the ones who aren't scorche or midkay, come in here to exchange ideas and talk about obscure bits of hardware in some of the devices that I am not at all familiar with.
00:01:17midkayhaha. excuse me.
00:01:32randisomeone replied to that ad with a myspace url and they said 'u' instead of 'you'. disqualification.
00:01:49midkaylook at you! chatting with someone in the middle of #rockbox. how dare you point ME out as a slacker.
00:01:59midkayget an IM window, you two.
00:02:00randito be fair, i only joined to harass him.
00:02:13randii googled him, found the url, and found the irc bits mentioned.
00:02:40Paul_The_NerdI have to chat off-topic in here. That way people can yell at me for being hypocritical when I tell them not to.
00:02:57Paul_The_NerdI like leaving people at least one means of griping at me, since I always have about 50 reasons to gripe at them. Fair's fair.
00:03:09midkayyes, well... i win.
00:03:26Paul_The_NerdAnyway, *you* have a Rockbox Developer host mask.
00:03:31Paul_The_NerdI don't get fancy stuff like that.
00:03:49randigetting a vanity host isn't any superhero feat.
00:03:52midkaynot like you asked for it!
00:04:12Paul_The_NerdI know! A certain someone snuck in behind my back and finally added me to the credits.
00:04:33midkayhaha. finally indeed.
00:04:44midkaywe couldn't stand your not-asking-for-it any longer.
00:05:21Paul_The_NerdIf I recall, it was more of a subtly-hinting-that-you-shouldn't. But I suppose it doesn't hurt anything.
00:05:44Paul_The_NerdGoogling my real name finally shows me rather than some silly famous Titanic expert.
00:06:43midkaypaul louden-brown.
00:06:56Paul_The_NerdWell, minus the brown for me.
00:07:48midkaybut that's the Titanic tart.
00:08:56Paul_The_NerdIs hardeep doing tagcache stuff still or just Slasheri?
00:09:22Paul_The_NerdI want to pester someone about adding the ability to disallow caching of certain folders, now that we've got SID support.
00:09:50Paul_The_NerdAlso, randi: Do you have some other means of communication than stalking me here, and email?
00:10:45amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: There's a very simple method to not cache the sid dirs: disable dircache ;)
00:11:45randioh dear. you aren't that titanic expert?
00:11:48Paul_The_NerdWell, it's the simplest way to search for songs, say titles containing the word X, isn't it?
00:11:50randimy dreams are shattered.
00:11:59randii've got AIM and skype.
00:12:12Paul_The_NerdI don't yet have skype.
00:12:21randiskype is neato. i dig the voicemail.
00:12:29randii no longer have a cell phone, so it's a necessity.
00:12:49Paul_The_NerdAh. I just recently upgraded (or rather was forced to upgrade) my cellphone.
00:12:58 Join Mmmm [0] (
00:13:02 Join MrStaticVoid [0] (
00:13:02Paul_The_NerdBut since I don't have to pay for it, I don't mind.
00:13:12 Quit freqmod_n ("Konversation terminated!")
00:13:12amiconnPaul_The_Nerd: You mean in tagcache? I thought you were talking about dircache
00:13:29Paul_The_Nerdamiconn: TagCache.
00:13:46amiconnBtw, for me the fastest method to find a song is to go into the dir where it's stored
00:14:24Paul_The_NerdBut what if I'm looking for say, every remix of Tetris music I have. Many folders because many artists, but every one has "Tetris" in the title.
00:14:54midkaySearch by Title: "Tetris"?
00:15:26amiconnBut why would you want to exclude some dirs then?
00:15:36amiconnSIDs are music files as well...
00:17:10Paul_The_NerdBecause there are too many SIDs to index at the moment, and I don't really have any interest in my cache being that big. I personally am okay with leaving them out of the cache.
00:18:16 Quit lodesi ("Parti")
00:18:19*amiconn wonders how big the cache will become with all those sids
00:18:34*amiconn didn't try the sid codec yet
00:18:48 Join lodesi [0] (
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00:23:32randiPaul: I'm usually a cell phone nerd, but my previous boyfriend decided he didn't like my cell phone. So it went away.
00:23:42randiit's somewhere in tiny pieces in atlanta. not a nice person.
00:23:56randiI plan on picking up either a blackberry or the new sidekick 3.
00:24:00scorcherandi: Skype is even neato-er now that they have that thing about free calls to anywhere in the US or Canada 'till the end of the year.
00:24:23 Quit JoeBorn (Nick collision from services.)
00:24:28 Nick JoeyBorn is now known as JoeBorn (
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00:26:30Paul_The_Nerdrandi: I recently ended up with a Cingular 2125 and am more impressed than I thought I'd be.
00:26:39Paul_The_NerdBeing as I was previously rather minimalist in my cellphone choices.
00:27:28randii *hate* cingular.
00:27:33randitheir unlimited data plan is $80/month
00:27:36randithat's just absurd.
00:27:47randiunlimited GPRS?
00:27:50Paul_The_NerdAt least, that's what I'm paying for EDGE
00:27:50randinot in atl.
00:28:04randiso they are finally offering it at competitive rates out here.
00:28:06Paul_The_NerdI mean, my total bill is about $70 with everything else.
00:28:28Paul_The_NerdBut the unlimited data service is $20, and since the cellphone doubles as a USB modem, it's quite convenient.
00:28:29randisince the sidekick 3 has bluetooth, i'm probably going to end up going with it. i love tmobile, even if they are asshats when it comes to equipment replacement.
00:29:07Paul_The_NerdI can't stand phones that open, slide, or otherwise have hinge-like bits.
00:29:11Paul_The_NerdI have very bad luck with hinges.
00:31:53sharpemy phone's finally starting to die off.
00:31:58Paul_The_NerdThough in all honesty the last phone I had with one was an ancient StarTAC (I think that was it) and I just wore it out.
00:34:50sharpeafter... three or four years...
00:37:09sharpe... i'll just go back to what i was doing...
00:39:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:39:21midkayit's for the best.
00:40:10 Quit sharpe ("Leaving")
00:46:23 Quit orthogonal ("Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox]")
00:49:17 Nick randi is now known as sektie (
00:50:16 Quit lodesi ("Parti")
00:50:44sektiehaha. be careful, i might do the same.
00:51:53Paul_The_NerdI'm not sure if I should leave that to imaginations, or ruin the fun by explaining how mundane it really was.
00:52:21midkayleave it to our imagination, i've got some interesting things brewing in my head..
00:52:31sektieoh dear.
00:54:52 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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00:56:04 Join earHertz [0] (
00:56:22 Join thoughts [0] (n=thoughts@
00:56:35earHertzanyone here?
00:58:34scorcheNay good sir.
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01:01:16Paul_The_NerdearHertz: Did you have something specific you brought to us, or was it just a general polling of presence?
01:01:19earHertzHave any of you ever had a date? with a woman, I mean? A real live woman?
01:02:10Paul_The_NerdNot only have I had dates, but on occasion, girls have actually asked *me* out instead of the other way around. So there.
01:02:22sektiei had a date with a chick once.
01:02:27earHertzOk, read this:
01:02:28sektieshe worked in tech support at my previous job.
01:02:51sektieturns out she was a stripper. but then she got fired for showing naked pics from the adult movie awards. it was sad. i almost cried. true story.
01:02:57earHertzsektie: got to to escalate his triouble ticket to level three support
01:03:16earHertztech support joke
01:03:23sektiei dunno. i was in dev.
01:03:25scorcheI am one of the rare species of nerds that actually has a social lifel. >_>
01:03:41 Join apo` [0] (
01:04:18 Quit apo` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:04:22sektiemy social life thrives in spite of my attempts to kill it.
01:04:38 Join apo` [0] (
01:04:49 Quit apo` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:05:01earHertzread the link!
01:05:08Paul_The_NerdearHertz: I read it, and it terrified me.
01:05:23earHertzYou didn't listen to the recordings. They are a must!
01:05:27 Join apo` [0] (
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01:05:41 Quit FOAD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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01:07:48 Quit Mmmm ("Byeee")
01:08:06 Quit adiamas ("Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox]")
01:09:49Paul_The_NerdY'know what irritates me? The fact that that turns some girls off letting a guy pay for meals. I've met a new friend, female, gone to eat dinner and chat, offered to pay because I could afford to and I'm a nice guy, and they wouldn't let me, and later I would find out they were afraid that I'd feel they were obligated or something because I'd paid.
01:10:49earHertzwell, they do feel obligated. You're in tech, right?
01:11:03Paul_The_NerdWhat does that have to do with it?
01:11:15earHertzyou make more $ than other people your age, probbaly
01:11:28earHertzwhat to you is not much money id much to them
01:12:35Paul_The_NerdActually, at the time they were probably making more than me.
01:12:49Paul_The_NerdIt wasn't that it wasn't much money, just simply that I could afford it, and like to do nice things like that.
01:13:16earHertzyeah, see, you were being nice. chicks don't dig nice
01:14:02markunmy girlfriend doesn't even want me to pay for her in a restaurant
01:14:15earHertzNow if you'd smile at her and said, "hey thanks for payinf" and then she'dwas all "what do you mean I'm paying" and then you said "just kidding, I'll take care of it" she'd think you were a cool bad boy
01:14:19scorcheHe may be right. I an an asshole, and the womenz lub me.
01:14:30scorche*egotistical asshole
01:14:45earHertzscorche: women love you a whole lot, jusdging nbt what I've seen of you ;)
01:14:58Paul_The_NerdNowadays I just grab the bill before they can read it, pay, and when they ask me how much they owe me, say "Don't worry about it."
01:15:01Paul_The_NerdIt usually works.
01:15:23scorcheThen again, I need a new job.
01:15:49earHertzNo, no. Look at the bil and concebtrate hard ofr 30 seconds. Then tell them "eleven dolars and 300 and a third cents"
01:16:03 Quit chendo (Success)
01:16:17earHertz"In yen"
01:17:32scorcheWhat is with this guy? He repeats himself incessantly and say "Its your call" way too much.
01:18:38earHertzscorche: it's a typical high-pressure negotiating tactic. It's intended to convey that the consequnces tre the fault for any conseqwuences lies with teh person addressed.
01:18:59earHertz"and that teh persion sayin git has no ability to stop the consequences
01:19:27 Join blackvd [0] (
01:19:46earHertz"The ball is in your court now mr. scorche. You can pay the bill, or we'll have to dmage your credit. the ball is in your court"
01:19:50 Quit Genre9mp3 ("I don't suffer from Rockbox psychosis. I enjoy every minute of it.")
01:20:06scorcheOh noes!
01:20:36earHertzth ereapetin gis to keep th epresure on, and teh otehr party unable to think things through, to panic them
01:20:50earHertzlike in tehose mafia movies, where joe Pesci charcters are ranting
01:21:17earHertz"You called me a fuck? well fuck you you fuck, I'm not a fuck, fuck you, I'll show you who is a fuck, yu fick" etc.
01:21:23scorcheearHertz: Are you drunk? Or perhaps have some kind of shaking hand disorder?
01:21:29earHertzI can't type
01:21:39earHertzNo, I do not have parkinsons
01:22:09 Quit chendo_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:24:03blackvdnot to sound like an idiot but this is the room for rockbox for DAP players right?
01:24:17earHertzer, yeah
01:24:42blackvdthinking about installing it on my iriver H320
01:24:53Paul_The_NerdDid you have questions?
01:25:27blackvdis it safe enough to not need to backup all 17 gigs of music i have on it?
01:25:43earHertzblackvd: teh ball's in your court. You can install it, if you know what's goofd for you. Or not install it, and see what happens. It's your call. Ball's in your court.
01:25:44Paul_The_NerdFor the H320, yes.
01:26:06Paul_The_NerdIs yours an American one, or an International one?
01:26:11blackvdman whats your deal with "the balls in your court?"
01:26:20earHertzblackvd: joke
01:26:22Paul_The_NerdHave you already installed international firmware?
01:26:31blackvdum yeah Korean
01:27:09Paul_The_NerdThen yeah, it should be no more dangerous than that update was.
01:27:11blackvdso no risk to installing it
01:28:17blackvdalso I'm running Linux and heard some people talking about problems compiling the boot loader?
01:28:40Paul_The_NerdYou shouldn't compile your own bootloader.
01:28:50Paul_The_NerdThere should be a binary of the bootloader itself on the IriverBoot wiki page.
01:29:00blackvdok so just d/l the bootloader and firmware
01:29:02Paul_The_NerdYou will need to compile the program to merge your bootloader, or run the fwpatcher program in WINE
01:29:22blackvdah thats what they were talking about
01:29:24PaulJami think the easiest way would be to use the fwpatcher.exe with wine
01:30:28 Quit Criamos ("( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )")
01:31:09 Quit obo ("bye")
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01:59:42 Quit carini ("Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox]")
02:00:07amiconnWaaarrrrrgghhhh! Who bloated rockbox that much during the last week?
02:00:19amiconn+11KB within one week on archos
02:00:42Paul_The_NerdIt wasn't my fault!
02:00:44amiconnWe're again dangerously close to breaking rombox for the fm/v2 :-(
02:02:41Paul_The_NerdYell at people! Make them trim their code!
02:03:11midkayprobably that tagcache thing..
02:03:50 Part Paul_The_Nerd
02:04:54 Join Daishi [0] (
02:14:50amiconnyes :(
02:15:06earHertzamiconn: any idea where?
02:15:16amiconnI strongly suspect tagcache
02:15:20XavierGryes indeed
02:15:32XavierGrbut tagcache is a major task
02:15:58earHertzI have an idea
02:16:15earHertzMaybe no patches should be accepted unles they are dicumented
02:18:09sharpeat least you know it isn't from me.
02:18:35earHertzsharpe: yeahm the patch does compile ;)
02:19:37amiconnWhat I don't get is why tagcache (+tagtree) is already bigger than the whole hwcodec playback engine....
02:19:43 Part blackvd
02:20:16 Join GodFather [0] (
02:20:21XavierGrask slasheri :p
02:20:36amiconnI will...
02:20:48earHertzamiconn: a codec only has to slurp up enought bytes to turn them into raw wav data. You can slurp up a lot of bytes or a few
02:21:15earHertztagcahce has to put as many tracks' tag data in memory as it can, becaus eit has to sort or search them
02:21:46XavierGramiconn:though one way or another, sometime in the future this limit will be broken again...
02:22:02amiconn(1) I'm talking about code size here. (2) I'm not talking about codecs (as that's in hw on hwcodec), but about the whole playback _engine_
02:22:18 Quit GodFather (Client Quit)
02:32:15 Part pixelma
02:32:54 Quit BockBilbo ("Ex-Chat")
02:37:34 Quit ze_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:39:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:43:39 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
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03:01:41UrbanNightmareA question about themes. I'm playing around with modifying the iRock theme for fun and learning. I've got the latest CVS build with album_art and resize on my ipod.
03:02:24UrbanNightmareThe only problem is that some of the lines are showing the |8|135. I noticed in the wps file it has a %m in front of it. Why is this tag not working?
03:02:34 Quit lightyear (Remote closed the connection)
03:02:54 Quit Poka64 ("bye bye")
03:03:00earHertzthe 8|135 to specify the beginning and end of aline?
03:03:00UrbanNightmareSorry for some reason I can't type that well tonight.
03:03:55UrbanNightmarethe line reads "%m|8|316|%?C<%s%m|120|316|%?it<%al%in. %it|%fn>|%s%ac%?it<%it|%fn>>"
03:04:18earHertzI beleuve that %m replies on a patch, yes/
03:04:35UrbanNightmareI was thinking that the %m|8|316| donotes a x/y for this line.
03:04:45UrbanNightmareI couldn't find a patch for it.
03:05:12earHertzI reecall seeing it was a patch. You'll have to add that patch to suport it, if my memeory is cortrect
03:05:57UrbanNightmareI'll search harder. thanks
03:06:58UrbanNightmareAny suggestions as to where to search?
03:07:24earHertzthe patch tracker and teh forum
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03:20:59 Quit PaulJam (".")
03:25:22UrbanNightmareI've search all over but I can't find that patch.
03:25:39 Quit XavierGr ("One firmware to rule them all!")
03:28:41S0apIsn't that the Scrolling Margins patch?
03:29:24earHertzyah, acoording to teh fora
03:29:46earHertzwho decided tio us %m both mode and margins???
03:30:38 Join XavierGr [0] (
03:31:19UrbanNightmareThanks soap. I didn't know what patch set that was from and trying to search on "%m" wasn't working.
03:32:14 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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03:34:16 Quit JoeBorn ("Leaving")
03:40:23 Join manos [0] (
03:41:13XavierGrhi manos
03:41:48XavierGrDue to your name, can I assume that you are from greece?
03:42:24 Quit BloodySorcerer (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:42:43XavierGrah it is you, romanos!
03:43:28XavierGranyway good night all!
03:43:30 Quit XavierGr ("One firmware to rule them all!")
03:44:23UrbanNightmareFound the patch but it won't patch with out errors. Back to the drawing board.
03:44:45earHertzfix the errors
03:44:53manosyou're still here xavier?
03:46:06manoshey, i want to buy a new car stereo and i've heard some good words about alpine's ipod full speed. Does anyone knows if this is gonna work woth with rockbox?
03:46:41earHertzmanos: i9f it connects to the headphone jacks yes, itf it connects to tteh usb, no
03:47:03manosgot it
03:47:33manosisn't the sound from the jack going to be a little bit crappier than the usb?
03:47:46earHertzmanos: in my experience it is better
03:47:58earHertzI got a $50 itrip
03:48:11manosdoing a good job?
03:48:19earHertzbut the sound tended to incoude electrical "noise" from the ipod
03:48:29earHertznoisee that incresed when teh hdd spun
03:48:56scorcheI have heard that the Monster transmitters are very good. Haven't tried them myself though.
03:48:58manosif i use my headphones, what's the difference when u use speakers?
03:49:09earHertzan $18 ugly thing from walmart produces far better sound connected to the headphone jaqck
03:49:23earHertzno, nop, the jack is the thing
03:49:26 Join TCK [0] (
03:50:15manosso what's your suggestion then?
03:50:20manosi need something good..
03:50:30earHertzwhat do you want to dio?
03:50:43UrbanNightmareearHertz: I'm in the process of that now.
03:50:54earHertzUrbanNightmare: good
03:51:53Paul_The_Nerdmanos: Get a car stereo with a line input. Ignore the idea of using to actually *control* the iPod, as that's silly and locks you in. Then, you can plug any MP3 player's headphone OR line out to the car stereo.
03:52:05earHertzPaul_The_Nerd: is right
03:52:32UrbanNightmareearHertz: I first thought I would try patching in a different order. Sometime thats the best fix.
03:52:41earHertzUrbanNightmare: indeed
03:52:50manosthnx guys
03:53:19manosso i just need a cable then?
03:53:32manosline out to line in?
03:53:46earHertzyou need a car stereo with a line in
03:54:02manosand a cable right?
03:54:10earHertzum, yeah
03:54:22manosany specific type?
03:54:33manosi mean stereo..
03:54:39earHertzminijack to whatever the line in takes
03:54:51earHertzgod knows
03:55:16manosgod is not intereted about ipods
03:57:43manosthe truth is though, that i'm not going to achieve cd quality using my ipod connected to my stereo right?
04:00:53earHertzwell, mp3s are not "cd quality"
04:01:17Paul_The_NerdWell, it also depends on how you define CD quality
04:01:23earHertzif you want cd quality, record flac and use a device with digital out
04:01:34Paul_The_NerdTechnically lossless files are CD quality, but it may or may not sound as good as a CD if you have bad cabling.
04:02:43earHertztechnically, there's acabling fo your cd to your amp to your speakers too. if you wan tto be an audiophile, go to hydrogen audio and talk about low-impednece gold cabling
04:03:33earHertzspend $20,00 on your home hi-fi system, or spenf $1000 on season tickerts to the opera, or just hire a strung quarteet to live in your rec room
04:03:55Paul_The_NerdI think season tickits to the Houston Symphony are a lot less than even $1000
04:04:11earHertzwell, it IS Houston, Paul ;)
04:04:22*earHertz palys eastern elitist
04:04:24 Join JoeBorn [0] (
04:04:31manoshey , what's the deal about that digital out ear?
04:04:59earHertzdigital out is the digital data from the vcd, not the results iof convertign the digital to analog
04:05:23manoshow do i achieve that
04:05:29manosexcept using the usb
04:05:30earHertzwe are atalking ab0ut your car sgteeo, yes?
04:05:38earHertzfor that you use the usb
04:05:49manosdigital out?
04:06:00manosyeah i figured that
04:06:03S0apFLAC don't jitter either.
04:06:12manosflac rules
04:06:19manosbut i got a 2gigs nano , so :(
04:06:35earHertzdude, your car is not silent eniough, nor are the echo-characteristics of the spce inside it, conducibe to "perfect" sound
04:07:03manosi'm just serious about my sound, being a musician
04:07:16Paul_The_NerdYeah, in a car, any format someone claims is "transparent" in secluded listening will probably be more than suitable for use.
04:07:19Paul_The_NerdBarring major artifacts.
04:07:26S0apdude, I can tell the difference between a FM modulator in the headphone jack and a line-out to line-in connection on my '85 Ranger w/all metal interior.
04:07:35earHertzthen you know that clmmercsil music is mastered, etc, such that the "origiobal" sound is lost
04:08:17earHertzyes, but eitrhe isd differnt from the "actual" sound
04:08:42S0apI am a horrible speller, but I need more than that, earHertz.
04:08:49 Join midkay_ [0] (
04:09:00earHertzyes, but either is diffeernt from the "actual" sound
04:09:08manosplease someone give an essential advice..
04:09:15earHertzthen you know that commercial music is mastered, etc, such that the "original" sound is lost
04:09:16S0apbuy low, sell high
04:09:33earHertzessentail advice: neceer trust midkay
04:10:40Paul_The_Nerdessential advice: Buy a car stereo that accepts a line in. If your music is _all_ mp3, instead get one that can read from a USB Mass Storage Device. But only if your music is all MP3 (or supported formats of the car stereo) and you do not care for future possibility.
04:11:23manosbut what about rockbox?
04:11:57manoswill that car stereo be able to read rockbox data?
04:12:04 Quit midkay (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
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04:13:11manosanyone please....
04:13:49earHertzfrom usb? no
04:13:58Paul_The_NerdIf it reads from USB, it can read any MP3s on your player.
04:14:01earHertzfrom headphone jack? yes, but that is not doigital
04:14:04Paul_The_NerdIf it accepts a line in, it can accept input from line out.
04:14:20manosyes ear , i know that man
04:14:40manosit's common sense
04:15:11manosi need something that can see the fat partition and recognise it or whatever
04:15:22manosi might end up using my laptop
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04:17:23manosactually , if there was something on market like a car stereo that i could just use a usb to connect my external drive with all my songs, holy shit.. that would be awesome :)
04:17:59Paul_The_NerdThere are those.
04:18:08Paul_The_NerdThat's why I said "If it reads from USB..."
04:18:30Paul_The_NerdMost only support limited formats.
04:18:37Paul_The_NerdI don't know where to find them, but I've known people with some
04:19:03manosand u can just plug your usb drive or whatever and listen to your tracks/
04:19:19Paul_The_NerdAs long as they're in supported formats, and the drive does not require external power.
04:19:36manosit does
04:19:44manosdamn.. i forgot about that..
04:20:26manoscan i hook it up with my car's battery?
04:21:08Paul_The_NerdYou could get a DC inverter to run from your cigarette lighter, or something similar.
04:21:40manostihs is awsome paul
04:21:46manosyou've got the brains man
04:23:29manosi can't believe this, but it seems that it will work flawless that way
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04:24:51S0apbeware the time it might take for your in-dash player to build a database or directory tree of your 250 gig HD...
04:25:01webguest14is it preferred to write mp3 tags with or without unicode?
04:25:23S0apwith unicode if you don't care about breaking many hardware players...
04:25:43manoswell.. what kind of cpu these suckers use?
04:26:05manosgot any ram inside of them?
04:26:23manosyeah.. i forgot about that, you're right
04:26:37earHertzdoesn't matter as much as 4200 rpm drives
04:27:18S0apforgot about what?
04:27:57webguest14S0ap: what players will it break (rockbox-wise); and is it just older players or do some of the new ones not support it?
04:28:31S0apwebguest14 - I was refering to many hardware stand-alone units. Like my DVD player, my car stereo, etc.
04:29:01S0apthey don't even like ID3v2.4
04:29:10webguest14does that include new ones?
04:29:41S0apDVD player is +-1 year old phillips
04:30:04webguest14so unicode is preferred?
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04:50:08S0apSlerped2005 is one busy boy tonight on the forums.
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04:54:50webguest98can ipod 4th generation play midis?
04:56:40Paul_The_NerdTry it.
04:56:46Paul_The_NerdI'm not sure how well the midi player works on iPods right now
04:57:03webguest98i did it says no midi patchset found
04:57:26webguest98but it does say file has 3 tracks
04:59:20webguest98do i have to install a patchset?
04:59:55webguest98whatever that means :)
05:00:05UrbanNightmareAnybody here know why the simulator gives a "invalid ELF header" on archos/_temp_codec1.dll running under Linux?
05:00:29Paul_The_Nerdwebguest98: It's on this page somewhere, nearish the bottom:
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05:01:44webguest98thanks...where do i throw the patchset directory?
05:01:50webguest98into rockbox?
05:01:59Paul_The_Nerd/.rockbox/patchset/ I think
05:02:26Paul_The_Nerdwebguest98: stevenm/patchset.tbz2">
05:02:28Paul_The_NerdThat file specifically
05:02:34Paul_The_NerdI just realized there are other patch sets linked there.
05:02:45webguest98i found that just didnt know where to put the files
05:04:21UrbanNightmareForget it. It helps if you actually run make install.
05:05:47webguest98ah you have to do a run make install?
05:06:02Paul_The_Nerdwebguest98: He's talking about his problem.
05:06:11webguest98oh...ok never mind :)
05:06:23Paul_The_NerdFor you, just extract that .tbz2, and you should get a patchset folder full of .pat files, and just move/copy that folder into /.rockbox/
05:08:49 Quit Daishi ("Client exiting...")
05:09:02webguest98so rockbox is now unfrozen? does that mean more development will be done to get rid of bugs?
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05:09:48rotatorthe unfreeze means new features
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05:10:05Paul_The_NerdThe freeze was a forced "no new features, just bug fixes"
05:10:06rotatorthe freeze was intended to stop new features and focus on bugs
05:10:12webguest98like a pdf viewer? :)
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05:10:53Galoisa pdf viewer would indeed be a bug
05:11:08webguest98hmmm...i thought there were still important things to fix on at least ipods still
05:11:10S0apHTML FTW
05:11:43rotatorwebguest98: the freeze was never inteded to fix ipod specific bugs
05:11:54webguest98archos bugs?
05:12:06rotatorit was fix targets for the 3.0 release (archos and iriver)
05:13:26Paul_The_NerdAs well, 3.0 was never released. Not all the bugs were managed to be fixed.
05:13:28webguest98ok time to test the patchset... this is so cool i can listen to my nes video game music... are there patch sets for nsf formats?
05:13:43Paul_The_Nerdwebguest98: It will PROBABLY sound like it's playing at double pitch.
05:13:46Paul_The_NerdOr maybe double speed.
05:14:50*rotator goes back to enjoying his glorious beer
05:15:02webguest98well as long as development continues...hopefully my ipod wont get dropped when people try to write stuff for the new secret micro$oft portable palyer
05:16:10Paul_The_NerdYou may have noticed a distinct lack of players being "dropped"
05:16:32webguest98haha there is buffer miss! all over the place
05:16:46Paul_The_NerdThat means it's not fast enough
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05:17:15webguest98didnt realize midis had to be fast :)
05:17:43webguest98try a less complicated midi
05:18:11webguest98is doing ok on the first part of dueling banjos
05:18:29webguest98lets see how it does in a few seconds when they start going all out on their banjos
05:18:52webguest98hehe...dueling buffer misses
05:19:30webguest98better than the other midi though...
05:21:41webguest98it works ok on some smaller ones...double speed as you said :)
05:21:52Paul_The_NerdIt's a resampling issue.
05:25:45webguest98are these things that can be overcome eventually or just physical limitations of th player?
05:25:55Paul_The_NerdOvercome eventually
05:30:09sharpeEvening everyone.
05:32:39webguest98not drops on the super mario bros theme midi at least...
05:33:24webguest98hmmm super mario 2 is too complicated
05:35:11webguest98buffer misses cant even keep up with rach 3-3
05:37:58ShyKsuper mario brothers: the lost levels was best ;)
05:38:14Paul_The_NerdI dunno. I'm quite the fan of New Super Mario Bros.
05:38:45webguest98there are new ones?
05:39:08webguest98thought they died when it went 3d
05:40:37webguest98the buffer misses do slow it down a little so it sounds more like normal speed
05:40:44webguest98maybe thats the key...
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05:42:16webguest98more than six notes at once causes a skip no matter how many instruments
05:43:03Paul_The_Nerdwebguest98: New Super Mario Bros. is a 2D platformer for Nintendo DS.
05:43:14Paul_The_NerdThe graphics are 3D, but the gameplay is straight old-school.
05:43:21Paul_The_NerdSide scrolling Mario.
05:43:34webguest98ok as long as he is side scrolling
05:43:44Paul_The_NerdVery much so.
05:43:55webguest98i lost so much respect for mario when they started to make him talk
05:43:57Paul_The_NerdIt feels like a cross between Super Mario 1, Super Mario 3, and a little bit of Super Mario World.
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05:44:40ShyK:o that's great. too bad i'll have to wait for a DS emulator :)
05:45:22webguest98a gameboy emulator would be cool for rockbox
05:45:35*Paul_The_Nerd points to Rockboy
05:45:48Paul_The_NerdA DS is easily worth the money though.
05:46:07sharpePaul_The_Nerd: guess what i'm finally getting around to posting on the internet!
05:46:14ShyKDS itself maybe. but as always, nintendo's games cost as much as the platform :D
05:46:28Paul_The_Nerdsharpe: SIDE port?
05:46:33webguest98instead of the playstation prtoable thing?
05:46:33sharpenope, but close.
05:46:44Paul_The_NerdThe DS beats the PSP hands down on a "fun" factor.
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05:46:56Paul_The_NerdAs well as the games averaging $10 less in cost, and the hardware $80 less in cost.
05:47:02ShyKi fucking loved my NES
05:47:06Paul_The_NerdMost DS games are $20-$30
05:47:09ShyKcan't remember what happened to it
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05:47:17sharpeheh, what is the only other piece of code i've worked on that had some results out of it...?
05:47:50Paul_The_NerdThe C64 thinymabob?
05:48:42webguest98hmmm cant figure it out...i think my ipod has problems with usb 2 or something...on my newer computer it has difficulty in disk mode...older usb 1.1 computer it works fine...
05:48:46sharpei don't really work on either anymore, i'm going to just post the source to both. (not forum-wise).
05:48:54Paul_The_NerdGood plan
05:48:56Paul_The_NerdPass the buck
05:49:02Paul_The_Nerdwebguest98: What kinds of problems?
05:49:25webguest98i put it on disk mode, connect it, try to transfer files and it states ok to disconnect
05:49:29ShyKPaul_The_Nerd: you should try The Lost Levels some time, it's seriously an insanely well made game. basically super mario 1 improved and made more fun. probably the game i had most fun playing ever.
05:49:37webguest98lost levels is awesome
05:49:39Paul_The_NerdI've played it.
05:49:54ShyKit's addictive :)
05:49:59Paul_The_NerdPlayed the original NES cart, pirated, while I was in Pakistan.
05:50:11webguest98i got to like level 8 on it i think last castle...could not beat the thing
05:50:28Paul_The_NerdNew Super Mario Bros is a little bit on the easy side, by my standards, but I could just be a better gamer now.
05:50:53ShyKyeah sadly most games nowadays are too easy
05:51:20webguest98the later special levels on super mario world i think some of the hardest to do with the except of lost levels
05:52:24webguest98like to one where you had to exactly hit a few special blocks to become balloon mario or u died
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05:53:01ShyKheh yeah
05:53:06ShyKthey had funny ideas
05:53:50webguest98there was a level like it in super mario 3 world 7 i think where you have to find the invincibility star everytime or youd die on the perpetually piranah plants
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05:54:27webguest98i wish they would have done more with karibo's boot
05:54:42Paul_The_Nerdwebguest98: The balloon mario level, I hated. Everything else in that game, I lvoed.
05:55:04webguest98paul: it was challenging though :)
05:55:13Paul_The_NerdIt was.
05:55:22Paul_The_NerdActually, that's the one level I wouldn't qualify as challenging.
05:55:27Paul_The_NerdThere's a line where it's just irritating.
05:55:34webguest98there was another sky level in special world where you had to like fall off the screen to beat it i think
05:55:37Paul_The_NerdBasically the point where luck factors into your completion.
05:55:44 Quit Sinbios ("If the definition of a klutz is someone who doesn't have eyes on their ass, then yes, I suppose I am a klutz.")
05:56:20scorcheSadly, I haven't played the original. Only the version that came with Super Mario Allstars.
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05:57:44ShyKscorche: should be the same i think :)
05:57:45webguest98did you see the video of the guy who did sm1 in under 5 min ?
05:58:00Paul_The_NerdWasn't that done using an emulator?
05:58:08ShyKyeah it was
05:58:20scorcheShyK: It is not.
05:58:25Paul_The_NerdIf I recall I read it was played at half speed.
05:58:32ShyKscorche: :o
05:58:43Paul_The_Nerd"Tool assisted"
05:58:47scorcheShyK: There are a few subtle changes.
05:59:28scorcheShyK: From Wikipedia: Neither of these rereleased versions of the game are absolutely true to the original. Aside from the save feature and improved graphics, extra power-ups and 1-ups were peppered throughout the levels, and hidden power-ups were placed in plain sight. Red Piranha Plants, which would originally come out even if Mario or Luigi were next to or on the edge of the pipe, would not emerge if the player was standing on th
05:59:28scorchee center of the pipe.
05:59:53webguest98someone did supermario lost levels in like 8 minutes
06:00:19ShyKscorche: wow.. weird, had no idea.
06:00:50scorcheShyK: There are other changes specific to the Allstars incarnation. See:
06:01:35ShyKspeaking of super mario, this is one of the most awesome tools ever made :) (some of you must know it)
06:02:20ShyKnever got around to creating something truly good with it though. the super mario level designers are complete geniuses
06:06:46ShyKlol "Looking back, I'd say the whole project was a real blast to work on. Although I think if I had known in advance how much time and energy it would end up consuming, I'd of died of a heart attack long before I even started. ^^"
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06:10:43webguest98thats a cool editor
06:22:26sharpeblargh. finally, tis all online with screenshots.
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07:16:09gursikhHello, I recently registerd on the wiki, Can someone here please give me write access?
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07:17:00sharpeah, it's you.
07:17:05gursikhyes, me
07:17:11sharpe:) be glad to.
07:17:35gursikhthank you
07:17:58gursikhI've found a bunch of things I can update
07:19:36gursikhAlso, is one of the actual admins of the wiki on?
07:20:14gursikhfound something I'm sure I will be unable to fix, Requires an admin
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07:21:23midkaylet us know what it is and we can confirm..
07:22:18sharpemidkay: wasn't it just add the name to the TWikiUsersGroup?
07:22:44midkaysharpe: can't handle it? :)
07:22:56sharpeno, i just can't remember the whole discussion. :)
07:23:15midkayso WHY'D YOU OFFER.
07:23:31sharpebeing nice.
07:23:41midkaybeing silly.
07:23:44sharpebite me.
07:23:45gursikhOK, logout of the wiki, then go to some page, hit the edit button−− Login prompt comes up−−says login with your name, or hit cancel to go to register. Hit cancel. You will get a blank white page that says: "{ScriptUrlPath}/view/TWiki/TWikiRegistration"
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07:24:05midkaysharpe: no thanks, but yes, that is what you do.
07:24:18gursikhand the URL on that page is:
07:25:38midkaysharpe: never mind, i did it for him.
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07:26:53gursikhmidkay, are you able to recreat the above error?
07:27:58midkayi don't even see a logout method..
07:28:17gursikhyeah me niether lol, I used different browser to recreate it
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07:29:18scorche`Yes, I was able to re-create it. =)
07:29:32gursikhAnd, that is nothing I will be able to fix, correct?
07:30:53gursikhSo, is there an admin around, or must I e-mail someone somewhere about it?
07:31:10midkaydoesn't appear to be..
07:31:16Paul_The_NerdThere are only three wiki admins
07:31:22midkayBagder: wake up!
07:31:34scorche`Bagder is on vacation.
07:31:43Paul_The_NerdBagder, Zagor, and LinusN. None of them are actually here right now
07:31:51scorche`And neither Zagor, nor LinusN are here.
07:32:01scorche`Paul_The_Nerd: Bah you.
07:32:18scorche`I would have had that, were I not typing "correctly".
07:32:23gursikhok, which of them is the best choice to e-mail, and where may I find his/her address?
07:32:52gursikhwow, one hour leases on page edits?
07:33:04scorche`gursikh: We can always mention it to them when we see them come on.
07:33:25Paul_The_NerdBah, seeking an email for Linus, I went here:
07:33:26midkayscorche`: maybe it's a good time to stop then.
07:33:27Paul_The_NerdIt was somewhat lacking
07:33:44midkaywe could always just kinda wait til one's on irc..
07:33:51gursikhok, because I had mentioned it here earlier in the day, and i'm sure the people here at that time already forgotten,
07:33:57scorche`midkay: I already said that. >_>
07:33:59Paul_The_Nerdgursikh: if you must email him.
07:34:16midkayscorche`: my bad. -=^_^=;;
07:34:50midkay.. imitating you with ugly smilies.
07:36:01sharpemidkay: no, no, you're just being modest with the ugly smilies.
07:36:46midkayit's generally accepted that jokes ought to make sense for them to be funny.. if that was even a joke.. i can't tell.
07:36:56scorche`It made sense to me.
07:37:06midkaybeing modest with ugly smilies?
07:37:23midkayenlighten me.
07:37:29 Part Paul_The_Nerd
07:37:32gursikhok e-mail sent
07:37:34scorche`As in, you were being modest (understating) your ugliness with the smilies.
07:38:06gursikhis PaulLouden on?
07:38:14sharpehe just left.
07:38:14midkayhe *just* left..
07:38:26midkayscorche`: i called the smilies ugly.. not myself.
07:38:31midkayso that doesn't make any sense at all.
07:38:32gursikhexciting, he was editing a page I would like to edit....
07:39:11sharpechips-ahoy, in the new snack and seal package.
07:39:17scorche`midkay: It was a sharpei joke - it isn't supposed to make complete sense.
07:39:34midkaybut you said that you understood it.
07:39:58sharpemidkay: he's right on my level of intellect.
07:40:06sharpeand humor, apparently.
07:40:13scorche`Notice how i said _complete_ sense.
07:40:29scorche`I was barely able to piece it together.
07:40:31midkayif that makes *any* sense *at all*, let me know..
07:40:55midkaybtw. i recieved several new map suggestions.
07:41:13scorche`Take them to messenger.
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07:46:22gursikh_ok, I'm pruning 404, stupid, and broken links from the Docs Index External pages. As this is my first time editing, can one of you confirm that all I did was Kosher?
07:47:19sharpeprepared in accordance with jewish dietary laws?
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07:47:57gursikh_Yes, exactly- Because I was NOT usuing that as the generally regarded english language phrase refering to roughly: "all-right"
07:48:58sharpeof course, because wiki editing always relates to judaism and food practices. :)
07:49:52gursikh_Sorry, I'm new to this whole wiki thing (though I do host the rockipedia development wiki), you will have to bear with me (or not) as I learn.
07:50:11sharpei'm not much of a wiki person.
07:51:34midkaygursikh: yes, that's a nice thing to do; also know that whatever you do is logged and all previous revisions are kept so it can be very easily undone (partially or fully) in case something wanted got removed (which is unlikely).
07:52:05gursikh_Excellent. I'm just going to be doing clean-up mostly
07:52:28midkaygood to hear, shouldn't be any problems..
07:53:05sharpemidkay: i finally got around to putting up the source for the c64 emulator and side port...
07:53:11gursikh_Are external links and internal links treated the same here? as I see above the "external" section all but 2 of the links are internal, with those 2 having no indication to the user that they are leaving the wiki
07:53:33midkaysharpe: congrats.
07:53:52sharpemidkay: yes."> should work.
07:54:19midkaygursikh: so what's your question? are they created the same, or is it alright to have external and internal ones mixed in the same section?
07:54:24midkayboth are 'yes', afaik.
07:54:45gursikh_part two of you question is the answer, and Ok, thanks.
07:54:56midkayscorche: nice.
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07:59:49gursikh_for consitancy, would i get toasted for changing all the "Iriver" "iRiver" and "IRiver" to "iriver"
08:00:07sharpewe pride ourselves on capitalization
08:00:17gursikh_as per:
08:00:40gursikh_as many of the category names and page titles as capatilzed incorrectly
08:02:01gursikh_and, would changing the titles,etc. break anything (links)
08:02:28scorchegursikh_: In many wikis (not sure about Twiki), the first letter of the title must be capital.
08:02:34amiconnNot internal links (afaik twiki auto-adapts them), but external ones
08:02:59gursikh_Ic, so I will leave that for later.
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08:04:18gursikh_Do you guys not think we should use an arbritrary name for the device since we now have iriver and ipod ports? In many places it says archos, when the page is talking globally
08:04:45gursikh_or do they not count as there is no "release" for those ports?
08:04:55scorcheExample in context?
08:05:21sharpei'd say many wiki pages which haven't been edited in years.
08:05:45scorcheBut, it can be situational...
08:05:52sharpeof course.
08:06:08gursikh_yeah many of these pages are old
08:06:24gursikh_mostly minor edits
08:06:51gursikh_example: add iriver's to this as it has liion battery.
08:08:13amiconnAlmost. Irivers and iPods have LiPo batteries
08:08:31gursikh_and thats why I only do cleanup
08:08:34amiconnBut most of the questions in there are archos fm/v2 specific anyway
08:08:38scorcheI would hold off on that page, as changing it would have to add a lot more information. Perhaps we can pass on that to someone such as paul...or...uh.... amiconn ;)
08:09:15gursikh_or updating the blindfaq for iriver,ipod,iaudio
08:09:16sharpenever offset any work to sharpe, :\
08:09:28scorchesharpe: Of course not!
08:10:32gursikh_is there a plaintext 2.5 manual?
08:10:41scorchegursikh_: I would keep to minor edits (while keeping a list of these types), unless you are very familiar with that topic.
08:11:42scorcheamiconn: Perhaps, get some of the main manual people working on these if they are interested?
08:11:50gursikh_i'd like to update a link to the plaintext 2.4 manual to the 2.5 manual, But I dont see plaintext version of 2.5 manual?
08:12:09scorchegursikh_: that is not worth updating...
08:12:21gursikh_for the blind?
08:13:29scorcheoh...on that page
08:14:17scorcheuse WikiManual to link if need be for now
08:14:34gursikh_I think What I will do is this: Since I dont know anything. I will create a document outlining all the things I see that need to be updated, but dont/cant/wont do. Then more informed people can have at it. I see that such a thing kind of exists for the manual (manualtodo) so maybe I will create WikiUPdateTodo ?
08:15:05scorchei dont see why not
08:15:19*scorche has run out of patience for typing "correctly" =(
08:15:33gursikh_so default back to incorrectly ?
08:15:37gursikh_how bad is it?
08:15:43scorchejust this
08:16:00scorcheno capitalization (sometimes), slightly less punctuation
08:16:07scorchenothing unreadable
08:16:43gursikh_I say this isn't english class. Be confortable, rockbox is supposed to be fun (apparently) anyways :0D
08:17:12scorcheyes, but it was an attempt (successful i might add) to annoy midkay
08:17:35gursikh_annoy by being proper?
08:17:41midkay.. taken a bit too far, i might add..
08:17:43gursikh_Interesting tactic I guess
08:17:46ShyKpreglow "Last Seen: 2 weeks 1 day (7h 5m 27s) ago"
08:17:48ShyKwhat the heck?
08:17:53ShyKwhere is preglow? :(
08:18:21scorcheto quote...(pardon midkay's less than kosher language)
08:18:22scorche«ScorchE» Blah. says:
08:18:23scorcheand why is it so annoying?
08:18:23DBUGEnqueued KICK scorche
08:18:23scorchemidkay says:
08:18:23scorcheit just is!
08:18:23***Alert Mode level 1
08:18:23scorchemidkay says:
08:18:24***Alert Mode level 2
08:18:24scorcheit doesn't work on you, you queer.
08:18:50sharpemidkay always insults people...
08:19:25midkayi'll never talk to scorche on msn again. will too
08:19:45midkaywe'll see about that.
08:20:00sharpeyou know you can't resist talking to scorche.
08:20:20CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
08:20:20*scorche wonders if anyone would notice if i hadn't been on in a while
08:20:20ShyKif anyone has an idea what's up with preglow please let me know.
08:20:38sharpeprobably more than they'd notice me.
08:20:59gursikh_I think I read on the forums that preglow is on holiday
08:21:17gursikh_I will search momentarily
08:21:52 Quit chendo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:22:29gursikh_he last logged into the forum on july 5
08:22:38sharpehe's acting the fool, most definitely.
08:23:13gursikh_I'm not finding it now, but I'm quite certain there was a post (maybe on MR) about him being on holiday
08:24:03ShyKok gursikh_, thanks
08:28:16Slasherihmm, i will change the tagcache entry limit to dynamic so there wont be no longer other limits but the real memory available
08:28:25***Alert Mode OFF
08:30:50amiconnSlasheri: Please do also check whether it's possible to simplifiy things code-wise
08:31:17amiconn+11KB in less than 2 weeks, probably most of it by tagcache :/
08:31:46Jungti1234can you see it ''?
08:32:26 Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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08:34:50gursikh_any idea if this is still true? : Note: American ISP Verizon is blocking non-US mail! You cannot sign up a verizon account to one of these lists, since it will just bounce and be taken off the list again. Use an account from a more intelligent company.
08:37:12Slasheriamiconn: it might be possible to do some code size optimizations, as the code is not yet optimized in that way
08:37:13 Quit scorche (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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08:37:30Slashericurrently it's only speed optimized
08:38:46Slasheriamiconn: and maybe the ramcache feature could be dropped for archos.. not sure if that's useful at all
08:39:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:39:30ShyKgursikh_: if it was ever true, i would find another ISP quickly :)
08:40:02amiconnSlasheri: I'll check out ramcache this we... but probably it can be dropped.
08:40:15Slasheriok, sounds good
08:40:51amiconn...provided that doesn't break some tagcache operations (but iiuc it shouldn't, since ramcache is optional anyway)
08:41:35sharpeamiconn: what is the limit of the firmware size for the archoses?
08:41:40amiconnI'll check how much ram it actually takes
08:41:41Slasheriyep, it shouldn't break anything (it's already enable by #ifdef HAVE_TC_RAMCACHE)
08:42:51amiconnsharpe: There are various limits.
08:43:09amiconn(1) for firmware loaded from disk: max. 200KB for player/studio and recorder v1, 400KB for the others (recorder fm/v2 and Ondios)
08:43:46amiconnThis is relaxed a bit in that if the firmware exceeds this limit (currently the case for recorder v1), we build a self-decompressing version
08:44:15amiconn(2) for flashing rockbox: max. 232KB for player/studio, 228KB for all others
08:45:16amiconnIf the uncompressed size exceeds this limit, flash firmware can be compressed too, but that obviously forbids running _directly_ from flash rom
08:45:42sharpealright, i believe i get it now.
08:45:52amiconnWe're now a little below 226KB for fmrecorder...
08:46:08sharpeah, i see the concern then.
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08:48:25*amiconn hopes to find time to do a langv2 rework during vacation
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09:10:11Slasherinow the limit has been removed
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09:20:46earHertzSlasheri: does ramcache actually work on ipods?
09:21:05SlasheriearHertz: hmm, it should. Do you have problems with it?
09:21:16earHertzwell, perhaps
09:21:30Slasheribut i don't have ipod to test with :/
09:22:05earHertzif I go to Info|view tagcache info, it tells ne Ramcache:no
09:22:21Slasherihowever, on flash players there is no need to enable either dircache or tagcache ramcache
09:22:48Slasherihmm, do you have selected "load tagcache to ram: yes" and rebooted?
09:22:55earHertz\indeed, I have
09:23:19Slasheriand tagcache works but it just loads entries from disk?
09:23:28earHertzalso, the disk is accessed when I page through long tagcach elists
09:23:47earHertzwell, i'm not sure what the behavior is SUPOSED to be
09:23:52Slasheriweird.. could you access the logf debug console?
09:24:01earHertzSlasheri: I could
09:24:03Slasheriit could be useful if you could provide the logf dump
09:24:42earHertzI'll have to rebuild; curenly I'm filling logf with my stuff
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09:31:51earHertzhmm,. this is new: when I plug in the usb, I see the rockbox usb icon, but insrtead of rebooting to the retailos , I get a battery icon?
09:32:27amiconnThen your battery is way down
09:32:36earHertzah, makes sense
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09:32:42 Quit Rick ("I don't need to be here.")
09:32:43amiconnJust let it plugged a few minutes
09:32:46earHertzhow long do I have to charge it?
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09:33:04earHertzSlasheri: can you wait a few?
09:33:22SlasheriearHertz: sure :)
09:33:38Slasherihmm, i am wondering if anybody has yet tried the runtimedb
09:33:52earHertzSlasheri: wilst we wait, can I bug you about a tagcache pucliarity?
09:34:07Slasheriplease do ;)
09:34:22earHertzah, rebboting now!
09:35:27earHertzSlasheri: tagcacjhe uses the same struct gui_list for all its liosts; I'm assumeing you must record the structs data somewhere else, because when I go back to a prior list, tagcache remmebers my place in teh lsit
09:35:31amiconnRetailos inhibits diskmode when battery is really low, and just charges instead
09:35:39amiconn(with the big battery icon displayed)
09:37:39earHertzSlasheri: why not use different gui_list instances?
09:38:15SlasheriearHertz: ah, that code is based on the old tagdb browser
09:38:32Slasherithe current level is stored in the tree context
09:39:00earHertzand current level offset
09:39:18amiconnearHertz: Does the filebrowser behave different?
09:39:32earHertzamiconn: I do not know; it's a good qurestion
09:40:13earHertzthis list re-use makes one of my patcghes have to do extra work
09:40:57earHertzSlasheri: ok, I have teh logf.. should I send it to you or can you tell me what I should look for?
09:41:17SlasheriearHertz: you should see something like loading tagcache to ram
09:41:24Slasheriand after that an error message
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09:41:50earHertzah, son of abitch
09:41:57earHertzI made a mistake
09:42:07Slasherihmm, what did it say? :D
09:42:42earHertzI didn';t get rid of my logfs, and gfilled up 4000 lines of logf with other crap
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09:47:41[HO]vo|thi, what is the best way to ensure longelivity of the headphone out jack of my v2 recorder? the last unit i had began to lose sound in one headphone ear if the plug moved the wrong way.
09:47:59 Join RoC_MM [0] (
09:48:01earHertz[HO]vo|t: soldering iron
09:48:16[HO]vo|thow so?
09:48:33earHertzunsolder the jack you have now, and solder a new on in
09:49:01[HO]vo|twell, that's what i tried to do with my old unit, which is now in like 6 pieces
09:49:34[HO]vo|ti purchased a new one off ebay with no hard drive and dead battery, swapped the new one in and it works well, i just am looking for tips on how to make this one last
09:51:39SlasheriearHertz: weird, it doesn't even try to load it
09:51:46Slasherihmm, maybe i have found the reason
09:52:08*earHertz raises amn eyebrow quizzically
09:52:12Slasheriyep, the status structure has not been initialized
09:52:26Slasheriso it might think tagcache has been already loaded in ram
10:05:11SlasheriearHertz: i have committed a little modification, please try with it again and put the new logfdump available
10:05:16earHertzthis only happens on ipods?
10:05:27Slasheriat least it works fine on my iriver
10:05:34earHertzwhere is teh mod? in cvs?
10:05:45Slasherijust update the cvs
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10:06:01apo`*WB(juxtap)WB* - <juxtap> craftkid, rockbox doesn't actually work, this whole thing's a hoax
10:06:32juxtaphuh? apo`, fine a new hobby...
10:06:48earHertzSlasheri: that's problematic for me. I don't suppose you have a diff file. (I'm out of date with cvs and have a plethora of my own mods in teh way of getting up to date.)
10:07:46Slasherihmm.. do you have the latest version of tagcache?
10:08:11earHertzproabbly not
10:10:11earHertzwhat file is that?
10:13:15earHertzdman, I really am out of date
10:14:00 Part amiconn
10:14:58earHertzyou've made several changes to tagcache lately, hmm?
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10:15:24JdGordonevening all
10:15:40earHertzJdGordon: where are you from?
10:16:00JdGordondown under
10:16:06*scorche` looks at the .au in JdGordon's hostmask
10:16:25earHertzunder what?
10:16:40scorche`earHertz: see what i said >_>
10:17:25earHertzunder a bridge?
10:17:32*scorche` sighs
10:17:52SlasheriearHertz: yes, lot of changes.. (most for the runtimedb)
10:18:03Slasheribut that shouldn't affect the ramcache feature
10:18:29earHertzSlasheri: your fix fixes the problem. Thanks
10:18:34Slasherigreat :)
10:18:47earHertz(It also exposes a problem in one of my unreleased patches, which is a bonus)
10:19:36earHertzI have a scroll accel that lets me page through my 8600 tracks in about 20 seconds
10:19:58earHertzI also have two list optimizations that physically scroll the screen faster
10:20:10earHertzsome interaction is puttin gtrash n the scren
10:20:26earHertzwhen i page al the way through teh 8600 trracks too fast
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10:29:41jhMikeSI've read lcd_blit is supposed to take the native bitmap format but is that also supposed to include the native orientation if scanlines a vertical?
10:31:03earHertzjhMikeS: no idea
10:32:52jhMikeSearHertz: who might know? I'm not positive that was ever considered though.
10:33:53earHertzalso, no ide. ;)
10:34:00*earHertz is not an offical dev
10:35:03*jhMikeS isn't either
10:35:45*jhMikeS knows you that you know that he knows
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10:39:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:48:10TnadeNhello, i have a ipod mini and i'm thinking about converting to your 'OS' instead of the original. the problem is that if i try to use the pdf-guide that i downloaded from your website, none of the links in the guide work... and as a result i can't get a hold of the bootloader
10:48:37 Join nls [0] (
10:48:42JdGordonthe lnks dont work? they should
10:48:47JdGordonmaybe its your pdf viewer
10:49:22nlsany ondio FM users around
10:50:08TnadeNand i have a 2:d gen ipod mini, but both the links in the pdf guide direct me to the 1:st gen bootloader
10:50:27JdGordonall the instrutions are on that wiki page
10:50:33JdGordonso u dont need to worry about thw guide
10:52:10nlsamiconn, If you read the logs, is there a way to remove a single FM radio preset on the ondio, I'm trying to add the buttons to the manual but couldn't figure this one out
10:54:41TnadeNhow does the rockbox save your songs? the annoing way (renames them to 4 random letters), or what?
10:55:25TnadeNlike the ogiginal software does it...
10:55:28JdGordonTnadeN: rockbox uses wheterver directory sturcture u have on the ippd
10:55:37JdGordonso u can copy them straight across in exploerer
10:56:00TnadeNJdGordon: so if i format my ipod.. and create a mp3 folder it should work fine?
10:56:31TnadeNJdGordon: kk, do you recommend format?
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10:56:57JdGordonwhatever format your music is in already... ipod plays almost everything
10:57:05JdGordonmp3, ogg, flac, mpc, ...
10:57:37beobaim getting some interesting output from this diskdump program when attempting to run it on a 5g ipod
10:57:39TnadeNJdGordon: mmm, i ment do you recommend that i delete the current dir and start
10:57:55TnadeNJdGordon: over again from 0
10:57:58beobaPart Type Start Sector End Sector Size (MB) 0 0x90 -1073743424 2147480619 1572863 1 0xbf 9412 -1073734013 1572863 2 0xfe -1881115804 -1881100845 7 3 0x00 -2139062144 -2139062145 0
10:58:14JdGordonTnadeN: ye, format, install rb, make a folder for your music and your good to go
10:58:25TnadeNJdGordon: kk, thx
10:58:38beoba(it looks like the program is having difficulty with the ipod's partition table)
10:58:47GaloisI would test it first without formatting
10:58:57JdGordonbeoba: u sure u have the right hdd?
10:59:19beobadisk0 is main hd
10:59:28JdGordonTnadeN: ye, install rb first, then format it
10:59:35JdGordonjust incase the install doesnt work
10:59:51beoba(im doing this on a mac, i already tried on linux earlier and ended up hosing the ipod, possibly due to the same reason as this issue with partition tables that im now encountering)
11:04:18beobaskimming old channel logs, it looks like the installer shits itself if the ipod is not formatted FAT
11:04:30beobaor whatever is a better name for this utility
11:08:09beobastill, wouldnt think that the formats of the partition would affect any ability to read the table
11:09:33 Join ashridah [0] (
11:10:51beobawell, i'll see what that does
11:11:21beobanothing as espected
11:11:52beobaanyway, i'll paste the diskdump output somewhere
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11:14:05beobanow for sleep
11:17:56linuxstb_beoba: "Macpods" have an Apple Partition Map, not an MBR...
11:18:17beobathat'd do it then
11:18:28beobaso why does this install program not check for that, if its compiled to run under OSX
11:18:50beobapresumably if im running an install program under OSX, there's a significant chance that the ipod being installed to was also formatted from that same system
11:20:16sharpegoodnight... everyone. even though it's morning for me.
11:20:47TnadeNJdGordon: yay, it worked out fine... now can anyone tell me some useful plugins/nice themes/other
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11:22:22TnadeNor do i even need new plugins.. it seems that a lot came with the pacage
11:22:37TnadeNwith the zip
11:22:43ashridaha lot does, yes.
11:23:08TnadeNhumm, then new themes.
11:23:16ashridahthere's possibly a few available in the bug tracker, but you'd need to be able to compile them. the plugin api changes from time to time, so precompiled ones wouldn't be much use.
11:23:34ashridahplenty of themes on the wiki, iirc. although quite a few come with rockbox
11:23:42TnadeN2 acctually
11:23:50TnadeNdefault and another one
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11:24:22ashridahhm. there's more for some platforms than others.
11:24:59TnadeNhumm, can you link me to the wiki page
11:25:04ashridaha theme is mostly just a set of font, WPS and background settings, for the most part.
11:25:14ashridah iirc.
11:25:48ashridahso WPS's will be more common than themes.
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11:26:50JdGordonTnadeN: get the fonts zip from the downloads page, and thems are on the wiki
11:27:02TnadeNJdGordon: k
11:28:28TnadeNJdGordon: i must be blind... i can't find the font download X|
11:28:54JdGordon iirc
11:29:03JdGordonits one of the last options in the table
11:29:06*jhMikeS doesn't understand why new functions aren't only addeded to the end of the plugin api to avoid api incompatibility
11:29:37JdGordon sorry
11:29:45JdGordonjhMikeS: they are
11:30:15jhMikeSJDGordon: So why is there an issue with precompiled plugins accd. to ashridah?
11:31:00JdGordonbecause ocasioannyl the plugin api is changed which rbeaks backwards compatibility
11:31:04jhMikeSJdGordon: mmmm...
11:31:31*jhMikeS had stong feelings about that
11:31:43nlsprecompiled plugins will be more usefull when we have a release.
11:32:16TnadeNhow come itunes recognises my rockbox?
11:32:17jhMikeSAnd as of now there's also no plugin devkit to build them outside the main build so I've been told.
11:32:38JdGordonTnadeN: uninstall itunes :p
11:32:44TnadeNand what happens if i tranfer music with itunes?
11:32:50nlsjhMikeS, correct.
11:32:56TnadeNJdGordon: :P yeah that might be a good idea)
11:33:16JdGordonjhMikeS: well there is the vmware image and the colinux image, but no bygwin updated image, and none of these were really for just plugin dev big an undertaking would it be? Add a command to make a plugin devkit?
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11:35:33safetydanit's not that hard to use the normal build for plugin development
11:36:26TnadeNhumm, what should i run if not itunes (don't say winamp). i'm a windows user and i like the itunes feature when you can drag and drop files OUT from your playlist (ex to teh rockbox)
11:36:39JdGordoni want to automate the patching process.. does anyone know how to run patch with a script so it fails if the patch is bad instead of it asking for a fix?
11:37:18JdGordonTnadeN: ? to copy music to the ipod use explorer, it should come up as a usb hard disk, to listen use whatever u want..
11:37:28jhMikeSsafetydan: true...I've done it for test ones, but it slows it down and you have to edit files with lots of stuff that has nothing to do with your own plugin
11:37:41JdGordonno u dont...
11:37:49JdGordonthe only file u need to edit is SOURCES
11:37:55safetydanonly SOURCES needs to be edited and only once
11:38:33safetydanJdGordon, patch -t might do what you need
11:38:42TnadeNJdGordon:but it's easier to use itunes, cause you can see the "real" filenames. a lot of my mp3's are named '01-track' or something
11:38:58safetydanJdGordon, otherwise 'man patch' is your friend
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11:39:15JdGordonTnadeN: so rename/retag them.. if you copy them with itunes it will go stupid filenames on the ipod
11:39:31TnadeNhumm yeah..
11:40:42jhMikeS...and bitmaps/native/SOURCES if you have images
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11:49:32jhMikeSIt would be nice to keep apps separate from the firmware esp if they're not so lightweight IMHO. I suppose I could create a devkit maker that people could download separately from the rockbox source but then it would be my own side project :)
11:50:38linuxstbamiconn: I'm curious to know if my ipod changes to scramble.c work on ipods apart from my Color - would you be able to test on your mini?
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11:51:37jhMikeSWhat about the case-only renaming of files (file => File)? I've wanted to do that on several occasions.
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11:51:47linuxstbjhMikeS: As long as it's built automatically from the Rockbox source, then I think it's a good idea. But by "devkit" do you just mean the build scripts and include files, or actually compilers etc as well?
11:51:50blackvdsay how do i boot to the default firmware?
11:52:42linuxstbjhMikeS: Do you mean with the Rockbox rename function?
11:52:47jhMikeSjhMikeS: No may copy tools from rockbox when you run the maker or just use them in their directories...that's all I'm thinking.
11:52:52blackvdtried pressing rec and play at the same time but...
11:52:56jhMikeSlinexstb: yes
11:53:34linuxstbblackvd: Which player do you have?
11:54:08jhMikeSlinuxstb: BTW: It was broken...If I press the joystick down button when entering text, it just jumps to the text line itself and not to the letter below like it used to.
11:54:20 Quit damaki (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:54:22blackvddid it before but can't seem to do it now
11:55:09blackvdresets the firmware when i do it
11:55:40nlsblackvd, hold down rec then press and hold play until you see the of starting
11:55:42*jhMikeS notices he was talking to himself up there ^ :)
11:56:07blackvdtried but it resets
11:56:20nlshold longer :)
11:56:39blackvdreason why is I'm running linux and for some reason i cant copy files to the player when it its running rockbox
11:57:17blackvdoh wait got it
11:57:30blackvdI'm retarded
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12:03:42jhMikeSwhat objects/bins are need to fully link a plugin? Is it just the output the plugin.c and some miscellaneous function libs?
12:06:31safetydanlibplugin.a at least
12:06:31 Join muesli__ [0] (n=muesli_t@
12:06:40safetydantake a look at the Makefile in apps/plugins
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12:08:21jhMikeSxlcd too
12:09:03*JdGordon has automated patching and compiling going :D
12:09:28 Quit KN|stiff (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:09:41midkayhaha. nice.
12:09:59linuxstbjsMikeS: Plugins don't get linked against anything outside the plugins directory - just the plugin lib as safetydan said.
12:10:09JdGordononce i do a frontend, any idiot wil be able to compile thier own version with watever patches they wont withpout needing the devkit :)
12:11:40midkay.. hooray, more questions, this time instead of "i cant check out sources" or "how do i start vmware" it'll be "the automatic patcher isnt working what do i do" or "i got a patch error what else can i try" plus the earlier vmware questions once we suggest that they can try running vmware to do it themselves. :)
12:12:13jhMikeSJdGordon: :D
12:15:04 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
12:17:11JdGordonhaha midkay
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12:17:38 Part Lost-tv ("Konversation terminated!")
12:17:53jhMikeSHow do the xlcd_*.o's get linked in? It's a static lib but no ref in the makefile. That's in the .o generated by the compiler?
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12:20:39jhMikeSI know, stupid question...I'm new to using Linux and the tools.
12:20:40safetydanthey get turned into libplugin.a
12:21:11safetydanwhich the plugins are then linked against
12:21:38jhMikeSsafetydan: it's all in there. One library file. A devkit only has to build that.
12:22:27safetydanand apps/plugin.c
12:22:45safetydanwhich then requires the rest of rockbox
12:25:26 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
12:25:53jhMikeSsafetydan: huh? Plugins don't seem to link statically to the firmware. Whatever it requires to be made...but once its can keep your project files and build separated.
12:26:00 Join linuxstb [0] (
12:26:32linuxstbsafetydan: afaik, plugins aren't linked against plugin.c - they include plugin.h and access the core functions via the plugin API.
12:27:45safetydanyeah ignore me as I know not of what I speak :)
12:27:45jhMikeSxlcd_* functions access through the plugin API. I can see it needs the pointer initiaized.
12:29:02 Join webguest99 [0] (
12:29:06safetydanstill, is it worth the effort to make a separate plugin dev kit when it only takes a few seconds to rebuild and changed plugin?
12:29:33 Quit nls (" Try HydraIRC -> <-")
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12:31:40webguest99i have many sound files and i want them to be one file???? which program shoud i have???
12:32:39jhMikeSsafetydan: It is to me for reasons of keeping files separated from the main source. I can put the projects where I want and keep it compartmentalized. Much tidier to me anyway.
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12:33:07linuxstbwhat kind of files?
12:33:16webguest99sound file
12:33:17jhMikeSsafetydan: It's something I could make for myself and others could use it if they like.
12:34:34jhMikeSlinexstb: My plugin sources, headers, images, etc. all in a location of my choosing.
12:34:51safetydanjhMikeS, ah, I just thought you wanted to save compile time.
12:35:13jhMikeSlinuxstb: Any no need to modify any SOURCES file with 1000000 other files.
12:35:23 Quit earHertz ("Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox]")
12:35:54webguest99give me a name on a program ... plz
12:36:25jhMikeSsafetydan: I'm sure it would do that and make keeping track of things easier. And no need to patch anything to introduce a new plugin either.
12:38:05jhMikeSIt looks rather simple actually now with your help. I just need to learn how to write makefiles and use the tools better.
12:38:10 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
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12:38:33bluebrotherwebguest99, what kind of sound files? Do you really want to recompress you music? For transferring you could simply zip them.
12:39:12 Join A_M [0] (
12:39:22webguest99a sound book mp3
12:39:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:39:57bluebrotheryou could use any good wave editor ... like audacious or Adobe Audition.
12:40:00jhMikeSJust put all the sources/makefiles in a zip and put it up on the web. Extract/compile/copy/'s that simple...;)
12:40:24bluebrotherbut this would recompress you music, most likely causing the sound quality to decrease.
12:41:07bluebrotheralso you could search the web for mp3cat programs ... there is mp3split, but I don't know if there is a cat program for mp3 files.
12:41:23Galoisthe old vintage mp3asm will do it
12:42:06Galoisreally, though, there is no good reason why you would ever want to assemble mp3 files together into one
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12:43:04A_MHmm... Is there some clever function I can call that will exit all currently open menus?
12:43:14Galoisno :(
12:43:30Galoisfor ogg files you can just use cat, in theory
12:44:01Galoisaccording to the spec the concatenation of two valid ogg files is a vaild ogg file, but most players (including rockbox AFAIK) don't handle concatenated files properly
12:45:17markunGalois: Oggscissors is a lot nicer:
12:45:50A_MI'm trying to emulate the tree with menus, and need to go back to root when (BUTTON_ON | BUTTON_REL) is hit before I open the WPS but I only manage to close the topmost menu - any suggestions?
12:45:56jhMikeSGalios: Is that true of ogg FLAC?
12:46:00orthogonalhow does a cat play ogg files?
12:46:16jhMikeSDoes RB even support ogg FLAC?
12:47:02jhMikeSogg is just a container for various compression schemes, right?
12:47:18orthogonaljhMikeS: yes
12:47:56 Quit damaki_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:48:04jhMikeSorthogonal: Yes 1, 2 and/or 3?
12:48:42jhMikeSorthogonal: only 3?
12:49:01orthogonal1 & 2 I dunno
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12:49:26jhMikeShmmm...another TODO...:D
12:49:31orthogonalI only use mp3s. I know ogg is better, but if I used it, I couldn't make fumn of people who do use it
12:50:18*jhMikeS thinks ogg is crunchy but mp3 is whooshy
12:50:38linuxstbIMO chained Ogg files are a brain-dead idea. You can't tell how many tracks are in the file (and their lengths) without scanning the whole file.
12:50:48orthogonalcrunchy? Like a vegan hippie granola eater?
12:50:49linuxstbNot good for embedded players...
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12:51:06orthogonallinuxstb: serious drawback
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12:51:42markunlinuxstb: with Oggscissors you get one new vorbis stream, not just concatenated
12:51:57jhMikeSorthogonal: Yes, it has that texture...
12:52:03bluebrotherbtw, the handling of the sid substreams is kinda strange.
12:52:09 Quit muesli__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:52:10orthogonalthw sound? are you serious?
12:52:56 Quit safetydan ("Ex-Chat")
12:52:59bluebrotherwouldn't it be possible when adding a sid to simply add each substream as a playlist entry? Like having them as <filename>:<streamid> in the playlist.
12:53:02jhMikeSThe artifacts are have a different sound than mp3...sort of like clipping.
12:53:20bluebrotherffwd'ing to change to the next substream is kinda weird.
12:53:38jhMikeSVery quiet crunchiness way in its bowels
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12:55:36bluebrotherSlasheri, you're in?
12:55:51Slasheribluebrother: hi
12:56:03linuxstbbluebrother: No - all of Rockbox assumes 1 file = 1 track. So it's not a trivial thing to change. But hopefully someone will take up the challenge - it would mean cue-file and mp4 chapters support could happen as well.
12:56:04blackvdmy videos dont show up in rockbox?
12:56:18orthogonalblackvd: rb does not play videos
12:56:20bluebrotherI think it would be better to warn before starting an "initialize now" on tagcache, as it can eat up lots of battery.
12:56:30orthogonalhowever, videos in the filesystem will show up as files
12:56:37blackvdhm mine dont
12:56:47Slasheribluebrother: hmm, you can abort that by shutting down the player
12:56:50blackvdthis is crazy talk
12:56:56blackvdno video?
12:56:57Slasheribut warning might be good, because it will erase all tagcache files
12:57:02orthogonallinuxstb: I'll be glad to do that −− as soon as someione offers a bounty
12:57:09blackvdthey've gone mad
12:57:12bluebrotherlinuxstb, I'm aware this would need major changes, but the way it's handled now is ... strange
12:58:12bluebrotherSlasheri, sure, but what if I don't want to shutdown the player (or am not aware of that)? Also, IIRC the "initialize now" will remove your old tagcache files, so it should be warned about that (especially if tagcache was already initialized)
12:58:40blackvdoh hey whats with the jblackglass theme does it work with the H320?
12:59:04Slasheribluebrother: yes, true. Warning sounds good, especially because all runtimedb data will be erased when erasing the files
12:59:10Slasheriunless you export the data first manually
12:59:26bluebrotherjust happend to me unintentionally ...
13:00:03bluebrotherfor now it's not that important but its kinda nasty. And usual "users" will most probably start to whine about it.
13:00:57Slasherii will try to add some kind of warning to it soon
13:01:29bluebrotherthanks :)
13:02:02linuxstbSlasheri: Why is the runtimedb data lost when you rebuild the tagcache db?
13:02:15Slasherilinuxstb: that data is stored in the tagcache db
13:02:41Slasheriit's just additional tags: playcount, playtime, lastplayed
13:02:57Slasheribut exporting/importing data manually will avoid that
13:03:19orthogonalpeople will want to save that crap even if the re-run tagcache buil
13:03:37 Join Mmmm [0] (
13:03:40*orthogonal doesn't actually care about it personally
13:03:44Slasheriorthogonal: yes, they can
13:03:53bluebrotherI think usually they only want to update the tagcache
13:04:13bluebrotherSlasheri, how are sid files handled in terms of tagcache? Do they get indexed too?
13:05:12Slasheribluebrother: i haven't tried that yet
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13:05:46BockBilbogood morning
13:05:49 Part blackvd
13:06:31bluebrothermaybe it would also be a nice feature to exclude file extensions from inclusion in tagcache. Like "don't index .sid files"
13:06:42bluebrother(assuming tagcache indexes sid)
13:06:58BockBilboim making a script to get the album covers from the mp3 id tags so i can make the covers available to be seen on rockbox with the album cover patch
13:07:01bluebrotherI had the sid collection on my player once, and tagcache ran like hours
13:07:03Slasheriyep, true. but that will be a problem with dircache too..
13:07:11Slasheriif you have downloaded HVSC on your player
13:07:26Slasheriit can't index that many files
13:07:31BockBilbocan someone tell me if the album cover patch supports , for instance, bmp files of 100x90 files?
13:07:36orthogonaltheytagcache is customizable, right? I can change All artsist to actually exclisude some artists?
13:07:42bluebrotherit can't? Ok, maybe that was the cause.
13:07:57BockBilboim asking this cause i want to know if its arbitrary to have square album covers
13:08:17Slasheriorthogonal: excluding ("not" operation) is not yet possible but will be in future
13:08:40freqmodi think sid files are indexed (in tagcache) if metadata is parsed ( in metadata.c )
13:08:41orthogonalI do want to exclude podcasts from everything
13:08:42k8toSlasheri: are you willing to briefly outline the limitation on the file indexing counts, ie. the cause?
13:09:01k8to(just curiosity)
13:09:04Slasherik8to: it's purely a memory limit
13:09:06*orthogonal feels bad for Slasheri
13:09:29k8toSlasheri: some per file structure exists in memory, and the player or overall table is exhausted?
13:09:56bluebrotherSlasheri, have you thought about adding the possible tagnavi.config tags to the TagCache wiki page? Would make it way easier to add them to the manual (once we manage to start describing the tagnavi.config)
13:10:30Slasherik8to: dircache allocates memory only as much as is necessary (no fixed amount per file), but probably even 10 MB isn't enough to index the whole HVSC
13:10:43Slasherihmm, maybe i will try and find out how much it really takes memory..
13:11:16Slasheribluebrother: yes, sure. but that syntax is not yet ready :)
13:11:16k8toi am surprised a dircache is necessary
13:11:25k8toat least for flash devices
13:11:26bluebrothergreat :)
13:11:30 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
13:11:41Slasherik8to: for flash devices, there is no need for it
13:11:56Slasheribut back soon ->
13:12:10mordovheolle :) is the tagchase suposed to be working on a fully loaded h120?
13:12:46bluebrothermordov, I think so. At least I had it working on a pretty loaded h120 before.
13:13:45BockBilboSlasheri, do you know if the abum art patch supports files which are not true squares?
13:13:52mordovIt worked with the tag DB and I have had some small moments where it is able to find 1% of my files in tagnavi but I just vant make it work properly....
13:14:18orthogonalBockBilbo: that';s not Slasheri's thing
13:14:47BockBilboorthogonal, Im just asking if he knows about it
13:15:02k8toSlasheri: thanks
13:15:07bluebrothermordov, do you have enough space on the disk to actually store the database files?
13:16:00orthogonalBockBilbo: yeah, ok. But Slasheri is being very kind rto answer a raft of questions about what he does work on, and asking about patches is −− iot's not something teh offical devs are supposed to support
13:16:05mordovgood question :)
13:16:16mordovhow big can it be?
13:16:28BockBilboorthogonal, i know that
13:16:37*bluebrother looks
13:16:38orthogonalbesides, had he knowwn, he'd have answered you before ;)
13:17:24BockBilbowhatever, i dont want to bother anyone. Im just making a usefull script for the rockbox comunity and though he might be able to help
13:17:24bluebrothermordov, currently all tagcache files are ~500kiB on my system.
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13:18:00mordovthe newsewt version of trockbox seems to be working betetr here :) I can now see 50% of my musik :) hope I reatch 100% if I do mopre restarts ;)
13:18:09orthogonalBockBilbo: it's no biggie
13:18:18mordovthe tagchase is only uppdating when red light flases right?
13:18:19bluebrother~500 files, ogg and mp3 mostly
13:18:23k8tobluebrother: i assume that scales with # of files, and, do you know how many files you have approximately?
13:18:25k8tooh, sorry
13:18:36orthogonalmordov: NMMY GOD, YOU TYPE EVEN WORSE THAN ME. i DID not think that possible
13:18:45bluebrotherk8to, I just was a bit slow looking it up ;-) np.
13:18:57k8tobluebrother: is the first part true?
13:19:02mordovdanke :P
13:19:18orthogonaloh, of you're gwerman, it'sd ok
13:19:26k8toa kilobyte per file seems a bit large. I wonder if you had more at some other point or whatever
13:19:36linuxstbBockBilbo: It's simply that (afaik) none of the "official" developers have used the album art patch, so we don't know the details of how it works...
13:19:40mordovhah norwegian,,, just have to use the only german word I learned at school
13:19:47bluebrothermordov, I'd suggest ensuring you have about 10 MiB free and rebuild the database ... then reboot rockbox.
13:20:06mordovok, how do I rebuild DB?
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13:20:13mordovlike the old way?
13:20:18bluebrothergtg now. bbl.
13:20:30bluebrothermordov, you can use the "initialize tagcache" entry.
13:20:38bluebrotherback in an hour or so.
13:20:46k8toorthogonal: the west coast won an award in planetary design
13:20:46mordovthat ususaly hangs or restarrtt the palyer..
13:21:07orthogonaloh, right douglas adams
13:21:16 Quit linuxstb (Client Quit)
13:22:00BockBilbolinuxstb, no problem :)
13:22:46mordovso initialize rebuild the tagdb and uppdate just adds new music?
13:24:41mordovARGH I havte this... now I'm back to only geting tagchace is not rady.... gues I need this tag function to be idiot proff to make it work for me;)
13:25:03BockBilboSlasheri, sorry for asking you about that, I didnt mean to bother you.
13:25:08k8tois it possibly building the cache at this time?
13:25:23mordovnope,,, grey light
13:25:45mordovbut I gues it because it hangs or turns it selfe of i I do initialize tagchace
13:26:18freqmodis it possible to restastart rockbox... (to commit the tagcache)
13:27:00mordovthink If I*m able to get the tagchce files made I'll nevver tutch initialize
13:30:41SlasheriBockBilbo: no problem :) but i don't know about that
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13:31:04Slasherifreqmod: yes, you can restart anytime while building the tagcache
13:31:22Slasheriand then continue building it later
13:31:44freqmodi didn't mean that, i meant that when i rebuild tagcache i have to restart my iPod afterwards to get it committed
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13:32:13Slasherifreqmod: ah, yes. that's because if dircache is not used, there is no memory to be used for the commit without restart
13:34:01Slasheriif dircache is enabled, then tagcache can disable dircache and steal the memory from dircache to do the commit in background
13:34:41freqmodbut when i look at [menu]->Info->Debug->View dircache info I see Dircache initialized:Yes .... Reserve:53/65536 B ...
13:35:05 Join dumbkid [0] (
13:35:13Slasherifreqmod: Hmm, what does it say as the cache size?
13:35:23freqmod418257 B
13:35:44freqmodlimit: 6291456 B
13:35:58freqmod(6233 entries)
13:35:59Slasheriinteresting.. but if commit fails then (view tagcache info, commit delayed: yes), probably there wasn't enough memory for it
13:36:29dumbkidim using the rockbox simulator to "debug" my hacks,
13:36:29dumbkidis there a possibility to write some debugmessages to a logfile or something like that (something like echo ;))
13:36:31Slasheribtw, you should try again with the bleeding edge build
13:36:44Slasherii changed today the tagcache memory allocation at commit time to be more dynamic
13:36:47orthogonaldumbkid: yes, use logf ON A BUIOLD WITH LOGF SUPPORT
13:37:16freqmodmost likely ( tagcache has 6234 entries ) and Ram is: 354256/387344 B
13:37:17orthogonalnote that logf lines are a max length of 30 chars, with a max lines of 1000
13:38:18dumbkidhow do i enable logf in my build
13:38:24dumbkid(building on my own)
13:38:50freqmodchoose D for debug build and then L for logf in configure
13:39:10dumbkidok thx
13:39:57dumbkidwhat does the (D)ebug do / the Profiling option?
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13:41:06freqmodI have seen some DEBUGF calls in the rockbox source, but I don't really know where they go, maybe it is for using with debuggers (e.g. gdb)
13:41:14orthogonalit allows you to select from several debig ioptions, one of which is logf
13:41:47dumbkid@ortho:i already thought about the sub-debug option
13:42:06dumbkidmade configure with logf and simulator
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13:42:36DoubleThink2Heya, is doom, rockboy and the video player and all that stuff ever going to be supported on greyscale ipods?
13:42:51mordovlast commetn :) it has been blinking stady for several minutes now so I guess it will be working when it stops :) thanks for teh help
13:43:12 Quit scorche` (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
13:43:17orthogonalwhat video player?
13:43:20dumbkidill rebuild it after make clean
13:43:31DoubleThink2doesn't rockbox play videos?
13:43:40freqmodwhen i build rocbox with simulator logf and profiling i get this linking error
13:44:22orthogonalI suspect profiling is not supported on the sim
13:44:36dumbkidfreq: what platform are you building?
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13:44:56freqmodipod video sim on x86_64
13:45:08freqmodlinux 2.6.18-rc1 kubuntu drapper
13:45:10orthogonalfreqmod: ah, profiling is not supported on ipod
13:45:35dumbkidis there a possibility to copy/paste lines from/to cygwin?
13:45:37orthogonalI can give you teh files you need to make profiling compile, but so far the output cannot be paarsed
13:46:05orthogonalif you need to know the caller of a function, I can give you a kludge that wil tell you that
13:46:27orthogonaldumbkid: are you suing teh default shell for cygwin?
13:46:40freqmodis there any other platform that support sw codecs and profiling with the simulator
13:46:59orthogonalfreqmod: profiling in the sim is pretty much useless
13:47:20 Quit Mmmm ("Byeee")
13:47:20dumbkid@ortho i think so.. just started it from my desktop
13:47:32dumbkid(what does profiling do?)
13:47:47orthogonaldumbkid: hold down teh left mouse and select text to copy iit. it is copied when you release the left mouse
13:47:52orthogonalto paste, use the right mouse
13:48:15orthogonaldumbkid: profiling tells you teh caller, callee, and time taken by teh callee
13:48:17freqmod(i hope) it tells me which functions/lines that uses most cpu time
13:48:34orthogonalfreqmod: that will depend on teh cpu on which it runs
13:49:19dumbkidbut you could try to get the tick and post it before and after calling some functions and then post it using logf
13:49:33orthogonaldumbkid: is cortrect
13:50:13orthogonalbut don't do taht onm a sim build, it's meningless
13:50:23dumbkidright mouse dont work for me
13:50:30dumbkidit doesnt happen anything
13:50:37orthogonaltry middle mouse
13:50:44freqmodok, but i don't know which functions that i would check, i just wanted a place to start to try optimizing (even if I don't know how to optimize)
13:50:54orthogonaldumbkid: what is your native language?
13:51:24orthogonalfreqmod: as Andrew Koenig wrote "Premature optimization is the root of all evil"
13:51:30orthogonalor wa s tat Knuth?
13:51:57orthogonalhowever, I can tell you a good place to optimize. Unroll loops.
13:52:06freqmodyes, but I am bored with speex only working up to 16kHz... so there is a need...
13:52:42orthogonalfreqmod: what device do you own?
13:52:48freqmodiPod Video
13:53:26orthogonalok, test timing on teh device, not the sim'use logf to get USEC before and after teh call, and take teh differnce
13:53:31dumbkidin my cygwin it looks like my mouse wouldnt work, no clicks, no select...
13:53:39orthogonalat all?
13:53:45markunfreqmod: is it too slow for ultra-wideband mode?
13:53:58orthogonaldumbkid: then run rxvt
13:54:11orthogonaltype rxvt at teh prompt
13:54:49freqmodnot the ultra wideband mode code but to process enough samples... (it works at 50% pitch)
13:56:37orthogonaldumbkid: you're suing teh wrong linker??
13:56:51dumbkidAlexander@Alex ~/rockbox-devel/build
13:56:51dumbkid$ rxvt
13:56:51dumbkidbash: rxvt: command not found
13:57:02orthogonalah, you didn';t install rtxvt
13:57:19orthogonaluse the cygwin instaler to install rxvt
13:57:57dumbkidthe wrong linker?
13:58:04dumbkidi even dont know what a linker is :/
13:58:14orthogonalI am unsuuree
13:58:31orthogonalthere are issues with cygwin'
13:58:46orthogonaland teh dsl sim, I think'
13:59:06BockBilbothanks for all
13:59:14 Quit BockBilbo ("Ex-Chat")
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13:59:48dumbkidhave to reconnect
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14:04:42dumbkid_is there a difference beetween the usal simulator build and the simulator build under the developer point?
14:10:01dumbkid_im able to compile the usual simulator
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14:14:35*dumbkid_ feels alone
14:14:55orthogonalwhat debug options?
14:15:30dumbkid_what do u want to know?
14:15:39orthogonalwhat do you mean by developer point
14:16:19dumbkid_when using the configure script, 1st i select the platform, then i have to choose beetween normal sim dev ...
14:16:27dumbkid_thats the dev i mean
14:16:48dumbkid_and in the submenu i can select the debug options (for examble logf, sim)
14:16:53orthogonaldev just allows you to select logf or debug or sim
14:17:21dumbkid_but sim i can also select the "menu" before
14:17:31orthogonalyeah, that confuses me too
14:17:55*dumbkid_ doesnt feel alone anymore :)
14:19:58 Nick orthogonal is now known as orthogonal_away (
14:20:08orthogonal_awaygoing to sleep
14:20:18dumbkid_whats the time?
14:20:36dumbkid_at me its 14:20
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14:24:40dumbkid_in the tag cache menu, whats the difference between update now and initialize now
14:25:10orthogonal_awayinit tjhrows opurttehexisting db?
14:25:41linuxstb_Anyone around with an ipod Nano (and a dev environment setup) willing to test something for me?
14:26:32orthogonal_awayout the exisirting
14:26:45orthogonal_awaylinuxstb_: video only sorry
14:26:50yiplinuxstb_: what is a dev environment?
14:26:56dumbkid_so it deletes it?
14:27:02Slasheridumbkid_: "update now" only adds or removes entries from the database and "initialize now" re-creates everything (including removal of the runtimedb data)
14:27:03orthogonal_awayi guees
14:27:09 Quit dumbkid (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
14:27:19dumbkid_ok thx
14:27:37 Join damaki_ [0] (
14:27:37*dumbkid_ goes eating now
14:27:44linuxstb_yip: A copy of the latest Rockbox source code and the necessary cross-compiler.
14:28:17yiplinuxstb_: i just got an ipod nano and i want to do cool shit with it but i don't know where to start
14:38:39DoubleThink2Hey is there a way to get 'iPod Updater 2006-03-23.exe' if iPodSetup.exe doesn't install with wine?
14:39:18dumbkid_do i need a restart after initializing the db?
14:39:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:39:53linuxstb_DoubleThink2: Not that I know of... But don't you have access to a Windows installation/
14:40:35DoubleThink2nuh.... my linux partition is really dodgy.... can't install half of the stuff on it
14:41:31dumbkid_when i select initialize now in the tagcache menu, do i need to restart rockbox to use the tagcache?
14:42:46DoubleThink2dumbkid, doesn't work for me until I restart... so I think you should... wouldn't hurt... O_o
14:42:47 Quit damaki__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:42:49DoubleThink2what about unedited extracted firmware... can I get that anywhere?
14:43:58 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
14:45:04 Quit mikearthur (Remote closed the connection)
14:45:30linuxstbDoubleThink2: Remind me which ipod you have
14:45:40DoubleThink22g mini
14:46:48dumbkid_how should i understand that?
14:47:05 Join Daishi [0] (
14:47:22dumbkid_is it possible that the error is due to a misstake in the tagcache.c (i changed it)
14:48:29Landus: (
14:48:46k8towithout knowing much of anything about rockbox, i would move that .o and try building again
14:48:48LandusI just woke up and someone was logged on to my VNC server.
14:48:59k8toLandus: whoops
14:49:10LandusAs far as I can tell, nothing serious was done.
14:49:29LandusSee, I woke up, saw My Computer and the Windows calculator open.
14:49:31LandusI closed then.
14:49:37LandusHalf a minute later, they opened back up.
14:49:57LandusIt hit me that the only way that could be happening was someone on the VNC server.
14:50:00k8toperhaps you should set some kind of passwording on it? or firewall to restrict access or both
14:50:09LandusThere is.
14:50:24LandusTwenty character password.
14:50:27LandusLetter's and numbers.
14:50:31LandusLetters, rather.
14:50:44k8toare you sure that this password is always required and that there is not another mode?
14:51:26LandusThe only two was of accessing it are using a viewer or going to my computers IP address.
14:51:31LandusThe latter gets a java viewer.
14:51:46LandusDoubt it.
14:51:51k8togiven your certainty in the face of uncertainty i can advise you to become less certain
14:51:56dumbkid_i own it too xD
14:52:01dumbkid_but its not running
14:52:12k8toalso: consider restricting the addresses which may connect
14:52:16LandusI can't.
14:52:17k8toor running it only on demand
14:52:28dumbkid_maybe your password is bad chosen / easy to crack
14:52:29LandusBecause I'll connect from so many different ones.
14:52:33dumbkid_what is your password ?
14:52:34LandusIt isn't.
14:52:36LandusNot telling.
14:52:36*dumbkid_ ;)
14:52:44linuxstbdumbkid_: Your error looks like you've previously tried to build a different version of Rockbox in the same directory. Try a "make clean" followed by "make".
14:52:52k8toLandus: so ssh in and add access from the IP address you are using
14:53:04LandusI don't have an SSH server running.
14:53:05Landus: (
14:53:09LandusIs there one on Freshmeat?
14:53:21k8toi am certain that you can run an ssh server on windows
14:53:30LandusYou can. I've done it before.
14:53:40LandusIt just like running in DOS.
14:53:41linuxstbAt the very least, you can run openssh in Cygwin.
14:53:58LandusIt'd be buggy as hell.
14:54:19k8totake charge of your own security or suffer the consequences
14:54:23dumbkid_made a make clean
14:54:28LandusAnd being able to access the folder with the IP list is wouldn't be possible without a crapload of changes.
14:54:29LandusI did.
14:54:51dumbkid_and a configure -> devel -> l(ogf) and s(imulator)
14:54:54k8toyes you have suffered the consequences
14:55:02dumbkid_lets see it itll work
14:55:09k8todumbkid_: crossing fingers
14:55:14LandusI shut off the server, turned it back on, and changed it so clients don't have the ability to send inputs.
14:55:21 Join XavierGr [0] (
14:55:29LandusI've also got a fun little program called TCP View working.
14:55:45k8toLandus: you don't mind internet stalkers who get to see any and all you are doing on your computer?
14:56:07LandusI'll know if they are.
14:56:13k8toyou might
14:56:23LandusThe server icon in the taskbar inverts the color if someone is connected.
14:56:34k8tothat's foolproof!
14:56:36LandusThere's only one place I've logged into my server that has the ability to log keystrokes.
14:57:05LandusWith TCP view up.
14:57:24LandusI'll have an IP address, assuming the person connecting isn't behind a proxy.
14:57:24k8toyour approach offers no security against people viewing your desktop when you're not looking at it
14:57:34k8toand offers no defense against user error on your part
14:57:37LandusI change my password.
14:57:42k8tobut whatever, i am misusing this channel
14:57:49LandusSo? It's fun.
14:58:01LandusNo ones not really asking for help at the moment either.
14:58:14oboLandus: there is a bug/feature/restriction with a lot of VNC servers where it only checks the first 8 characters of passwords
14:58:34LandusI'm using my NT login password.
14:58:39k8toobo: is this the age-old lousy crypt algorithm problem?
14:58:49LandusWhich is 20 characters.
14:58:56LandusAnd the eight charater bug doesn't work.
14:58:58LandusI tred it.
14:59:16obofair enough
14:59:17LandusOh yay.
14:59:19dumbkid_good to know
14:59:33Landus"Prompt local user to accept incoming connections."
14:59:53k8tothat isn't going to be very useful when you're somewhere else
15:00:15LandusI'll switch everything back when I leave the house, change my password, and lock the desktop.
15:00:17dumbkid_the connection isnt established until you accept it
15:00:31k8towhat a pain
15:00:39k8toif it were me, I'd forget half the time
15:00:43dumbkid_maybe a trojan/rootkit...?
15:00:46LandusI don't.
15:01:00k8toyeah you really have no guarantee your machine isn't owned at this point
15:01:08k8tobut hopefully it isn't!
15:01:09LandusThere is.
15:01:59k8tothe only way you can detect a machine ownage in a guaranteed way is to extensively analyze the traffic from outside the machine
15:02:08k8tobut even then, the ownage might be waiting to activate
15:02:57k8todepending upon how you use your machine, that might not matter
15:03:40Landusk8to: And if any changes done over VNC are logged?
15:03:43Landus: )
15:03:53k8tothe log is editable
15:04:08dumbkid_youre paranoid xD
15:04:12LandusTrue, but no one knows it exists.
15:04:22LandusSave for me and everyone else in this channel now.
15:04:26k8todumbkid_: it's basic security
15:04:39k8tothey're logged via a VNC feature or an OS feature?
15:04:55k8tosurely both are widely known
15:05:05LandusSearch google for it.
15:05:08k8tounless you've deployed your own custom logging solution
15:05:23LandusEither way, the only thing that was happening was My Computer and Calculator being opened up.
15:05:27dumbkid_[Saturday 15:02:39] k8to: the only way you can detect a machine ownage in a guaranteed way is to extensively analyze the traffic from outside the machine
15:05:27dumbkid_[Saturday 15:02:48] k8to: but even then, the ownage might be waiting to activate
15:05:27dumbkid_[Saturday 15:03:37] k8to: depending upon how you use your machine, that might not matter
15:05:31dumbkid_^^ this isnt paranoia?
15:05:37k8todumbkid_: no
15:05:41LandusThere wasn't anything on the calculator.
15:05:45k8todumbkid_: it's like "how do i get rid of a computer virus"
15:05:50LandusNothing wasy happwning with My Computer.
15:05:55k8todionoea: you analyse the system externally
15:06:00k8towhoah, mistab
15:06:14k8todumbkid_: if you don't analyze it externally you can't guarantee any intrusion is removed
15:06:24k8todumbkid_: that's factual, not paranoid
15:06:46dumbkid_k8to, it would be reasonable if he had critical data on his pc,
15:06:46dumbkid_and a hacker would try to attempt
15:06:55DoubleThink2ahmm.... how does the ipod partition with the firmware work.... is it mountable? are there files on it or does it work somehow else?
15:06:56k8toyou cannot analyaze a compromised system using the compromised system and be able to trust the results
15:07:04LandusFirst, the term hacker is incorrect.
15:07:04k8tothat is all
15:07:17LandusSecond, the only critical data would by system files.
15:07:20dumbkid_but in most cases attacks (on private pcs) come from scriptk., (i think)
15:07:20k8tomost likely, his intruder didn't do anything
15:07:26LandusI've checked. Nothing has been changed.
15:07:39k8toso they were not terribly naughty
15:07:42k8toor really good
15:07:43dumbkid_how did u check?
15:08:05LandusFirst, nothing in the log noted any file changes.
15:08:18LandusBut, it could be modified.
15:08:29LandusI had all the system files and DLL's sorted by date.
15:08:30dumbkid_i heard about a hacker who replaces the windows distribution by a linux with root controll and then fakes the windows system ;)
15:08:39dumbkid_date is fakeable ;)
15:08:49k8toyeah everything can be faked but
15:08:49LandusOnly the ones that are changed on a daily basis were modified today.
15:08:53k8tomost likely nothing happened
15:08:59LandusNo one is going to fake every bloody DLL.
15:09:08LandusIt'd be pointless.
15:09:10k8tothey can restore the dates
15:09:17k8toand hide the added files
15:09:23k8toit's not rocket science!
15:09:29LandusI mean, if it was the NSA doing this, yeah, sure, they'd be able to break the encryption.
15:09:30k8to(that's when you blast things into space)
15:09:46k8tothere is no encryption
15:09:55dumbkid_maybe u forgot to close the calc this night because you were too tired :P?
15:10:19k8todoes your vnc.log log connections?
15:10:37 Quit Gnelik ("Gfrf!4edss")
15:11:16DoubleThink2ahmm.... anyone? =(
15:11:23DoubleThink2"ahmm.... how does the ipod partition with the firmware work.... is it mountable? are there files on it or does it work somehow else?"
15:11:35obono, it's not mountable
15:12:10DoubleThink2any way to see what's on it in a comprehendable format?
15:12:16k8tois it not really a filesystem at all, or a special filesystem?
15:12:36linuxstbThere's nothing to see - it just contains a short header followed by a firmware image (or multiple images)
15:12:58linuxstbSome documentation about it is here:
15:13:15DoubleThink2yeah I was on that page
15:13:18DoubleThink2which got me wondering
15:13:44linuxstbOr if you can read C, look at tools/scramble.c in the Rockbox source - I've just added basic support to create an ipod firmware image to that tool.
15:14:37DoubleThink2yeah I can read C... suppose I'll check that out
15:14:41 Join rasher [0] (
15:15:24dumbkid_where is the logf output saved
15:15:44obodumbkid_: have you gone into the debug menu and saved the log file?
15:15:51dumbkid_ok :)
15:15:56dumbkid_(i didnt)
15:17:42dumbkid_why is logf limited to 30 chars?
15:18:30oboI think that's the number of characters that can be shown on a h300 remote
15:18:58dumbkid_i think less -.-
15:19:06DoubleThink2ahmm... is there a disassembler for linux to reverse engineer the firmware with?
15:19:33oboarm-elf-objdump ??
15:19:55dumbkid_commiting tagcache
15:19:55dumbkid_waiting for cached dirs to re (...?)
15:19:55dumbkid_cache released
15:19:55DBUGEnqueued KICK dumbkid_
15:19:55dumbkid_delaying commit until next bo (ot?)
15:20:06DoubleThink2is there one with a GUI?
15:20:09dumbkid_ so i have to restart rockbox?
15:21:14XavierGrlinuxstb: here?
15:21:21obodumbkid_: looks like it
15:21:42 Nick dumbkid_ is now known as theprodukkt (
15:21:42DBUGEnqueued KICK theprodukkt
15:22:08linuxstbXavierGr: Yes.
15:22:19CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 1 minute and 47 seconds at the last flood
15:22:19*linuxstb is now booting Rockbox directly from the firmware partition on his 5g ipod.
15:22:53linuxstbMakes upgrading a pain though...
15:22:58XavierGrI forgot to add the bidir option in the bit_entry last time, that's why it wouldn't store the settings
15:23:04obowhat's the boot time like?
15:23:15XavierGrlinuxstb: Thanks for noticing it
15:24:01 Quit damaki_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:24:25XavierGrlinuxstb: new patch sent.
15:25:01linuxstbobo: From off, it's still about 4 seconds to the file browser. But that's about as fast as we can get without flashing our own bootloader.
15:25:59linuxstbAnd for some reason, the backlight doesn't get turned on when Rockbox starts.. So you need to wait for the timeout, and then it will come back.
15:26:37linuxstbThe bootloader normally turns the backlight on, so no-one has noticed that bug.
15:27:57linuxstbXavierGr: Thanks - received. I'll look at it this afternoon.
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15:30:42 Quit goldenratiophi (Client Quit)
15:30:42 Quit lee-qid (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:33:22 Join lee-qid [0] (
15:33:50rasherAny idea why creates a "gcc" executable?
15:34:09rasher(as opposed to $ARCH-gcc)
15:35:09rasherBy the way, I'm building html-manuals until they show up on">
15:36:26theprodukkt youre building a lot! ;)
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15:41:53theprodukkt whats the best way to debug if my source dont work as i want?
15:42:36linuxstbDepends what you're writing...
15:42:54theprodukkt changes in the tagcache.c
15:43:12linuxstbThen I would use the sim with DEBUGF
15:43:44rasherdon't listen to me
15:43:50theprodukkt is there a difference between debugf and logf?
15:44:06rasherI think logf acts like DEBUGF in the sim or something like that?
15:44:28linuxstbIn the sim, DEBUGF writes to the console. I'm not sure about logf's behaviour in the sim...
15:44:59theprodukkt logf writes to the remote window
15:45:10theprodukkt and i can check it under the info point too
15:45:13theprodukkt menu
15:45:58JdGordoncommit my logf patch and then you wont have any problems :D
15:46:09theprodukkt i dont have any problem
15:46:24theprodukkt my only problem is i have to rebuild my changes which takes about 1 min
15:47:08oboccache to the rescue
15:47:12linuxstbXavierGr: Committed.
15:47:22theprodukkt and i again need help with handling of string,
15:47:22theprodukkti need a if instruction which is true when i a string ("abcdefg") contains a specific char ("e")
15:48:08rashercan't you just write that function?
15:48:23DoubleThink2Hey I got the arm-elf stuff.... which switches would I use to disassemble the firmware?
15:48:40theprodukkt im not that experienced, and maybe there are already (faster then ownwritten) solutions
15:48:52JdGordontheprodukkt: u can use strchr for that
15:48:53 Join joe2 [0] (
15:48:53linuxstbtheprodukkt: if (strchr("abcdefg",'e'))
15:49:14XavierGrlinuxstb: thanks :D
15:49:20theprodukkt strchr returns a pointer, right?
15:49:29 Quit YouCeyE (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:49:31DoubleThink2actually nvrm me... I can barely understand assembly
15:49:38linuxstbDoubleThink2: arm-elf-objdump -b binary -marm -D apple_os.bin
15:49:48rasherI doubt you could write it to be slow (unless strchr is written in asm)
15:49:53JdGordontheprodukkt: yes, but it will be ture if its found, or 0 if not
15:50:07DoubleThink2thanks linuxstb
15:50:11 Quit lee-qid ("Trillian (")
15:50:13theprodukkt ok ill try again
15:50:53JdGordondoes anyone know how to get wget to download a file to a different filename as it is on the server?
15:51:03linuxstbwget -O myname
15:51:09JdGordonah, cheers
15:51:16rasherAgain, linuxstb to the rescue with a full example
15:51:36linuxstbAs Bagder's not around we can mention wget :)
15:51:50DoubleThink2damn... that's a lot of assembly code O_O
15:52:20linuxstbDoubleThink2: The problem with arm-elf-objdump is that it's not all assembly code... apple_os.bin will contain lots of data (variables, bitmaps, fonts, strings etc)
15:53:12DoubleThink2so it's not possible to compile it back after modifying it?
15:54:04DoubleThink2hmm =(
15:55:19theprodukkt ok, i used:
15:55:20theprodukktlogf ("current: %s",track.id3.artist);
15:55:20theprodukkt if (strchr(track.id3.artist,"&"))
15:55:20theprodukkt {
15:55:20theprodukkt logf ("& positiv");
15:55:20***Alert Mode level 1
15:55:20theprodukkt }
15:55:22theprodukkt else
15:55:24theprodukkt {
15:55:26theprodukkt logf ("& negativ");
15:55:28theprodukkt }
15:55:36theprodukktthe log shows:
15:55:40theprodukktcurrent: Westlife
15:55:42theprodukkt& negativ
15:55:44linuxstbstrchr doesn't take a string as the second parameter - it needs a char. i.e. '&'
15:55:44theprodukktcurrent: Wir & Sind H
15:55:46theprodukkt& negativ
15:56:08linuxstbThe compiler should have warned you.
15:56:10theprodukktid never find this
15:56:17theprodukkteven forgot the difference
15:56:20linuxstb"man strchr"
15:56:34linuxstb(type it in your terminal)
15:57:57JdGordontheres the problem... <theprodukkt> current: Westlife <- listening to bad music :D
15:58:01FebsWoo hoo! I think I tracked down and fixed the bug in patch 5294 that broke the compiler for Archos Player.
15:58:07 Quit A_M ("CGI:IRC")
15:58:20theprodukktim not listening westlife
15:58:35theprodukktits just a random file i picked to copy into my rockbox sim dir
15:58:51theprodukkt(realy said: i already w8ted for a comment like that xD)
16:02:51 Join _FireFly_ [0] (
16:03:57JdGordoncan someone help me with perl regexp please? ive got a line which is in the form url,short_description,long description... the regexp im trying to use isif ($patch =~ /([a-zA-Z0-9\.\/\?:=\%]*),([a-zA-Z0-9]*),(.*)/) but that isnt working?
16:04:34 Join dumbkid [0] (
16:05:21***Alert Mode OFF
16:06:42rasherWould /([^,]*),([^,]*),([^,]*)/ work? (ie. does any of the fields contain a comma?)
16:06:47 Join muesli__ [0] (n=muesli_t@
16:06:52dan_aJdGordon: What results are you getting?
16:07:08rasherI guess the last one could just be .*
16:07:23JdGordondan_a: im not sure, the if is failing tho, im trying again
16:07:34dan_arasher: That would fail if there was a comma in the long description
16:07:53 Quit muesli (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:07:54rasher/([^,]*),([^,]*),(.*)/ then?
16:07:59dan_aJdGordon: Should it be \( and \) rather than /( and /)?
16:08:19dan_aIgnore that
16:09:01JdGordonrasher: cheers, that worked :)
16:09:47dumbkidif pch is a pointer ( char * pch; ) to a string
16:09:47dumbkidand i want to check if its empty (check_if_empty(string))
16:09:47dumbkidi have to call it like that:
16:09:47DBUGEnqueued KICK dumbkid
16:10:17JdGordonno, u just call check_if_empty(pch);
16:10:37JdGordonor you can just do if (!*cph)) which is the same
16:10:55dumbkidso what does the * do?
16:11:23linuxstbIt de-references the pointer. i.e. it will return the first character in the string.
16:11:41rasherXavierGr: have you seen my battery_bench page? ("> Is there anything that should be changed to make it (more) useful?
16:11:44JdGordonsame as doing pch[0];
16:12:54dumbkid^^ this works too?
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16:13:54 Quit Pyromancer (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:16:00dumbkidrockboxui crashes at line check_if_empty(pch);
16:16:06JdGordoncan the Makefile be modifed to do a build without the plugins please?
16:16:23JdGordonare you initialising pch?
16:16:24 Join lee-qid [0] (
16:17:00dumbkid char * pch;
16:17:00dumbkid pch = strtok (track.id3.artist,"&,");
16:17:00dumbkid while (pch != NULL)
16:17:00***Alert Mode level 1
16:17:00dumbkid {
16:17:02dumbkid logf("asd");
16:17:04dumbkid check_if_empty(pch);
16:17:07dumbkid logf("asd");
16:17:48JdGordonstrtok will return NULL if the toekn is not found.. so that check is redundamnt
16:18:11JdGordonthat doesnt explain why it crashes tho
16:20:46 Quit theprodukkt (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
16:21:50 Quit XavierGr (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
16:24:52JdGordonif you run a make with ccache on then remove the directory and compile it again, will ccache still work? or is it useless?
16:24:56FebsDoes anyone here have an archos player?
16:26:35 Quit PaulJam (".")
16:27:01***Alert Mode OFF
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16:27:19oboJdGordon: should work - ccache keeps its cache under it's own folder
16:27:46dumbkidthe code above makes a access violation reading location 0x20....
16:28:11dumbkid0043ED26 ret
16:28:11dumbkid0043ED27 push ebp
16:28:11dumbkid0043ED28 mov ebp,esp
16:28:11dumbkid0043ED2A cmp dword ptr [ebp+8],0
16:28:11dumbkid0043ED2E je 0043ED42
16:28:11***Alert Mode level 1
16:28:11dumbkid0043ED30 mov eax,dword ptr [ebp+8]
16:28:13dumbkid0043ED33 cmp dword ptr [eax],0
16:28:15dumbkid0043ED36 je 0043ED42
16:28:17dumbkid0043ED38 mov eax,dword ptr [ebp+8]
16:28:19dumbkid0043ED3B mov eax,dword ptr [eax]
16:28:21dumbkid0043ED3D cmp byte ptr [eax],0
16:28:23dumbkid0043ED40 jne 0043ED4B
16:28:25JdGordonyay asm!
16:28:25dumbkid0043ED42 mov eax,dword ptr [ebp+8]
16:28:27dumbkid0043ED45 mov dword ptr [eax],45D93Bh
16:28:30dumbkid0043ED4B pop ebp
16:28:32dumbkid0043ED4C ret
16:28:34dumbkid0043ED4D push ebp
16:28:35dumbkid0043ED4E mov ebp,esp
16:28:37dumbkid0043ED50 sub esp,528h
16:28:39dumbkid0043ED3D cmp byte ptr [eax],0
16:28:41dumbkidthats the line
16:28:45dumbkidfor u assembly cracks :P
16:29:25 Quit damaki (Remote closed the connection)
16:29:29dumbkidtagcache.c:1249: warning: passing arg 1 of `check_if_empty' from incompatible po
16:29:29dumbkidinter type
16:29:29dumbkidthis is the a warning i get during compiling
16:33:18JdGordonshow us the check_if_empty code
16:33:41rasherlinuxstb: does the sudoku generater have any way to generate a specific difficulty?
16:34:18JdGordonshouldnt need the &
16:34:24JdGordonchar * pch;
16:34:50 Part jhMikeS
16:36:22 Join LandusMikain [0] (
16:36:54dumbkidwith & it works
16:36:59dumbkidwithout access violation
16:37:15 Quit Landus (Nick collision from services.)
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16:37:21 Nick LandusMikain is now known as Landus (
16:37:36Landus<3 /ghost
16:37:58dionoeajust curious: what does check if empty do ?
16:38:02JdGordondumbkid: wierd :p show us the function
16:38:08 Join linuxstb_ [0] (
16:38:12***Alert Mode OFF
16:38:13linuxstb_rasher: No.
16:38:22obodionoea: tagcache.c:1120 :)
16:39:14dionoeathat function is kind of overkill ...
16:39:27rasherlinuxstb_: Are you opposed to adding a submenu for chosing difficulty and re-run the generating until it matches and add a "Any" entry that accepts all difficulties?
16:39:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:40:14rasher(it takes a while to match a specific difficulty like that)
16:40:22FebsAny objections to me committing this patch:
16:40:23rasherpotentially, of course
16:41:15dumbkidi already have problems with 1* -..-
16:41:49JdGordonFebs: none from me.. if that makes any difference :p
16:42:40FebsI'm just mindful of the fact that I was given commit access mainly for the manual, not the code.
16:42:49linuxstb_rasher: No, I'm not against it. Although it would possibly be better to find a more flexible generator to use. You could add a submenu to the "Generate" entry with "Random Difficulty", "Easy", "Medium", "Hard".
16:43:06rasherlinuxstb_: Yeah, that's my plan (the latter, that is)
16:43:07linuxstb_(or whatever sudoku calls the difficulties - I forget)
16:43:08FebsHowever, I think that this patch has been discussed fairly extensively and I've never seen an objection other than "make sure it's tested on all targets."
16:44:19 Quit apo` ("KVIrc 3.2.3 Anomalies")
16:45:05linuxstb_Febs; I remember my first reaction to that patch was that I didn't like the way it's implemented - using a global variable rather than cascading values down through the menus. But it's been a while since I looked at the patch.
16:45:49dumbkiddo u know a function with deletes the spaces (" ") at beginning and end from a string?
16:46:01JdGordonshouldnt the menu system be changed from returning bool to returning an int? 0 if ok, 1 if exit menu, 2 if go up one level? etc?
16:46:06JdGordonbetter than using variables
16:46:31linuxstb_Febs: And isn't there a bug where returning to the WPS on an ipod pauses playback?
16:47:07CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
16:47:07*Febs reported that bug.
16:47:19dan_alinuxstb: (if you have a second) - why do you avoid using the stack in the FIQ handler? Is it a big no-no in interrupts?
16:47:26FebsI'll take a look at that.
16:47:33JdGordondumbkid: you can write one fairly easily..
16:48:00dumbkidI can write? i know that u can, but me...
16:48:02dumbkidin future
16:48:30dumbkid(from today i hates strings in c.... in vb it was that easy)
16:49:34JdGordonone min..
16:49:36Febslinuxstb, this is an interesting exercise for me in how the code works (or at least this small part of the code). But I'm well aware that I'm basically hacking my way through it.
16:50:18dumbkiddo u know a good site which gives introducton to strings in c?
16:50:56linuxstb_dan_a: Using the stack means extra memory accesses, which are slow. The aim is to just use the banked FIQ registers.
16:51:38linuxstb_But both normal interrupts and the FIQ have their own stacks assigned (about 256 bytes IIRC), so they can use the stack if they need to.
16:51:48linuxstb_(these are initialised in crt0.S)
16:52:03dan_alinuxstb: Thanks!
16:52:38 Quit Mmmm ("Byeee")
16:53:10dan_aI'm learning lots about how Rockbox works and hangs together
16:53:30 Join PaulJam [0] (
16:54:05dumbkid i thought so too, but actually im learning how c does NOT work :)
16:54:48dan_adumbkid: Learning how things doesn't work teaches you just as much as learning how things do work :)
16:55:24dumbkid i hope so
16:55:36linuxstb_dumbkid: An important concept is that C doesn't really have strings as you know them from other languages. All it has is pointers to characters.
16:55:47linuxstb_To understand C, you need to be comfortable with pointers.
16:55:58dumbkid :/
16:56:23dumbkid i dislike them (since today)
16:58:16JdGordonthey only get worse :D
16:59:36bluebrotherpointers are really great.
16:59:41*bluebrother loves pointers
16:59:54*dumbkid hates bluebrother :P
16:59:58dumbkid ;)
17:00:10rasherbluebrother: nice job on the html manual, I'm building them and putting them here:"> until they appear on
17:00:30dumbkid &pointertostring = string?
17:00:37bluebrotherrasher, great. I hope building didn't work just for me ;-)
17:00:51bluebrotherpointertostring = &string
17:01:12JdGordonhmmm, sendmail doesnt seem to be wanting to send my emails out :' is there any other way to easily send email from a perl script?
17:01:15rasherbluebrother: I had some debian-related problems I think, but other than that, it worked perfectly
17:01:21dumbkid aaaaaaaaaah
17:01:26dumbkid why is it that difficult
17:01:37dumbkid if i want to access the string
17:01:41dumbkid how can i do that?
17:01:45linuxstb_bluebrother: Do you know if you can change the names of the links? e.g."> is a link to the Main Menu section...
17:01:56k8todumbkid: strings are a bit of a special case
17:02:23k8todumbkid: a string literal evalutes as a pointer to the string location
17:02:29bluebrotherdumbkid, I don't think it's difficult. Just get used to the fact that a pointer holds the address of the thing it points to. So you need to get the address (& operator) of your string.
17:02:42S0apLate to the party, but Landus's insistance that he has nothing he is worried about being seen is beside the point. His machine's value in a botnet is much higher than his machine's value as a treasure trove of info. k8to isn't paranoid, rootkits are real, easy to deploy and effective.
17:02:52dumbkid i have a pointer
17:02:55dumbkid to a string
17:03:03bluebrotherlinuxstb_, unfortunately no (not yet)
17:03:18k8toS0ap: yeah it's a decent point, although a botnet add script probably isn't going to poke around opening copies of calculator
17:03:22dumbkid and i need:
17:03:22dumbkidnewstring=string_whos_pointer_i_have + ")";
17:03:55bluebrothermaybe strcat helps ...
17:03:55k8toS0ap: I wouldn't really doubt his machine could have been independently owned, although it's possible no one logged in and he just forgot he left it open
17:04:10dumbkid man strcat...
17:04:16 Quit muesli__ ("ich will KEe!!!")
17:04:20k8toman strncat
17:04:29linuxstb_dumbkid: That's not always easy in C because you have to manage the memory yourself.
17:05:26bluebrotherdumbkid, maybe it helps if you try thinking of string as what they are in memory −− an array of char.
17:05:34linuxstb_You should try to think of ways to do things without those kind of operations if you can. Especially in Rockbox where you want to minimise memory use.
17:06:09k8toi assume the rockbox environment is mmuless?
17:06:23linuxstb_Yes, and malloc-less (in general)
17:06:23k8toso realloc etc is not so smart
17:06:38rasherlinuxstb_: I have the submenu working now, but with a warning I have no idea about, want me to put a patch somewhere?
17:07:24linuxstb_There is no malloc in the core of Rockbox, but there is a very simple implementation used by the audio codecs (because they are third-party code which was already full of mallocs).
17:07:32k8towell then i would say that the rockbox environment is not a very friendly environment for learning C
17:07:38linuxstb_rasher: Sure. Or just pastebin the warning."> <−− if anyone would have a look at this and explain "warning: passing arg 2 of `sudoku_generate' discards qualifiers from pointer target type"
17:07:58k8tolinuxstb_: is there some alternate custom allocation scheme (pages etc) or is everything just done statically as much as possible?
17:07:59 Join rotator [0] (n=e@rockbox/developer/rotator)
17:08:20rasherI guess it's because my understanding of arrays is close to nonexistant
17:08:20linuxstb_k8to: Everything is static, with a few things allocated at boot-time.
17:09:30rasherSeems to be working fine though, just that warning to take care of
17:11:01bluebrotherrasher, the h100 and h120 manuals are identical.
17:11:34rasherbluebrother: yeah, I was using my simulator building script as a basis for this one
17:11:51 Quit Hansmaulwurf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:11:54bluebrotherah, ok. Just wanted to mention it.
17:12:18 Join Hansmaulwurf [0] (
17:13:28rasherI just noticed myself a while ago
17:13:48bluebrotherhehe :)
17:15:04rasherwell, once I finish building and uploading the h1xx manual at least
17:16:24JdGordonoohhh... if the settings are being reset anyway.. can be commited, pretty please.. :D
17:16:47 Join damaki [0] (
17:17:13dumbkid lets see if ive done my homework:
17:17:13dumbkidthe function strlen awaits a pointer to an array of chars...
17:17:27dumbkid so i cant give him "abc" as argument
17:17:29dumbkid right?
17:17:34JdGordonyou can
17:17:38rasherstrictly speaking, a pointer to a char
17:17:39 Part DoubleThink2
17:17:40JdGordoncoz "abc" is an array of chars
17:18:09rasher"abc" is the same as { 'a', 'b', 'c' }
17:18:12dumbkid yes
17:18:18dumbkid but it has no adress in the ram
17:18:32dumbkid because i didnt declare a variable for it
17:18:34rasherit does
17:18:38dumbkid ?!?
17:18:39k8todumbkid: all variables live in ram, and thus have addresses
17:18:39linuxstb_If you write char* x = "abc", then the compiler will put the "abc" somewhere in memory for you, and x will be the address of that memory
17:18:49k8todumbkid: but, there are .. issues with how you use them
17:19:19JdGordonbed time for me, gnite all
17:19:29 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
17:20:04*dumbkid is confused
17:20:51k8toeverything lives in ram, or else it doesn't exist, so they have have addresses and can be pointed to
17:21:02dumbkid sounds logic
17:21:19k8tohowever, local variables only exist temporarily, so passing pointers to local variables is a bad idea, they might no longer exist by the time they are used
17:21:28k8tois a bad idea sometimes
17:22:20k8toalso you often cannot change strings entered literally, like "abc", so they are special in that way too
17:23:02k8tothere are many exceptions and special cases to C pointers and strings
17:23:03k8tooh well
17:23:56k8toin practice, it is best to think of literal strings as constants, I find
17:24:33dumbkid if i want to combine two "strings" to one, i first need to declare a new one where the combination is stored?
17:25:47k8toin normal C you often malloc it
17:25:53dumbkid malloc?
17:26:02k8toyou ask for some memory to store the string in
17:26:31dumbkid aaaaah
17:26:53k8tochar * newstring = malloc(strlen(oldstr1) + strlen(oldstr2) + 1);
17:27:07k8toin rockbox there is no malloc
17:27:16dumbkid aaaaah
17:27:25*dumbkid 's head explodes...
17:27:34dumbkid thats a nightmare!
17:27:42dumbkid so how can i do it in rockbox?
17:27:43k8toin malloc you can ask for a particular size at runtime
17:27:51k8toyou see in my example, i say, how big is string 1 and string 2?
17:27:56k8toand make something big enough for both of those
17:28:02k8to+1 for the trailing null
17:28:14k8toi didn't say the second line which would be like
17:28:19bluebrotherk8to, but you should multiply by sizeof(char)
17:28:33k8tobluebrother: okay sure
17:28:39dumbkid ?!?
17:28:46k8toalthough char is ansi defined to be 1 byte but it is reasonable
17:29:00bluebrotherdumbkid, sizeof(foo) returns the space that is needed by a type in bytes.
17:29:22dumbkid ok
17:29:27k8todumbkid: in rockbox you have to know how big things will be ahead of time
17:29:28dumbkid so far i understand
17:29:30bluebrotherso when malloc'ing malloc doesn't know anything of the type you want, so you need to take this into account.
17:29:36k8todumbkid: you cannot wait until runtime to figure out how big to make something
17:29:59dumbkid but i cant know how long the tag of an artist will be
17:30:08k8toright, so
17:30:18k8toyou pick some kind of reasonable size that you think will be "big enough"
17:30:50k8toand you drop the extra if you encounter data that is bigger than that
17:30:57k8tois this for displaying on the screen or what?
17:31:02dumbkid yes
17:31:16k8to(does the screen support scrolling etc for arbitrarily wide text?)
17:31:23dumbkid yes
17:31:28rasherlinuxstb_: did you see my patch?
17:31:41k8towell then you have to just guess
17:31:49mordovis there still no way to exclude folders in teh tagchace?
17:31:50k8tothere might be some established value for tag data i dunno
17:31:58k8tobut you do something like
17:32:14k8tochar tagstring[MAX_TAG_LENGTH];
17:32:26rashermordov: no
17:32:39rasheror yes, depending on how you want your answer, but there is no way
17:33:10mordovhope it appears :) I dont need my audiobooks in the tag DB... sort of messes it up:)
17:33:35k8tostrncat(tagstring, oldstring1, MAX_TAG_LENGTH - 1); strncat(tagstring, oldstring2, MAX_TAG_LENGTH - 1);
17:33:56rasherYou could also use tagnavi.conf once that gets a way of excluding stuff (something like: genre != 'audiobook')
17:34:07dumbkid i know the size of my array during runtime...
17:34:14dumbkid strlen(pch) + strlen(track.id3.artist) + 4
17:34:30dumbkid pch is a pointer
17:34:40k8toi hope they are both strings
17:34:47k8toie. pointers to char arrays
17:34:47dumbkid whichs target stored a part of the artist tag
17:34:49PaulJamrasher: i think a "not" isn't yet implemented in the tagnavi.config syntax.
17:34:58dumbkid stores
17:35:12mordovbut tagnavi.conf don't do that now right?
17:35:16dumbkid they are
17:35:21k8todumbkid: you have to size the storage space for your new string at compile time
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17:35:39k8todumbkid: and then ensure that you don't overrun that
17:35:47k8todumbkid: which is why i used strncat
17:36:04dumbkid so srtcat could make a buffer overflow?
17:36:17_FireFly_isn't the length of track.id3.artist fixed sized ?
17:36:31bluebrother_FireFly_, no, only in id3v1
17:36:39k8toit's possible to strcat safely if you do the same length checks that strncat does, but .. why not just use strncat
17:36:57_FireFly_bluebrother: i mean in rockbox
17:37:16bluebrotherah, this I'm not aware of ...
17:38:14k8toit seems to me that creating code which depends upon a string being of fixed size isu undesirable
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17:38:35k8toif it can be reasonably avoided
17:39:00rasherPaulJam: I know, hence the "once that gets a way of"
17:39:14 Quit apo` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:39:27 Join apo` [0] (
17:40:18dumbkid [Saturday 17:37:10] bluebrother: _FireFly_, no, only in id3v1
17:40:29dumbkid but didnt we say it has to be limited ?
17:41:11_FireFly_bluebrother: the atist member of the id3-struct is only a pointer so the id3-artist string is saved somewhere else
17:41:33bluebrotherI'm not sure how the metadata gets buffered. If it's just extracted from the audio buffer I don't see a reason why there should be a fixed lenght restriction.
17:41:41 Quit Hansmaulwurf (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:42:23Bagderbecause it isn't (yet) stored in the compressed-audio bufffer
17:42:23 Quit webguest99 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
17:42:29linuxstb_The metadata is stored in separate structures - there is an array of 32 of them. Part of this structure is an "id3v2buf" which is about 500 bytes I think.
17:43:04dumbkid struct track_info <- where is this declared?
17:43:05linuxstb_Bagder: Welcome back (if you're back)...
17:43:10BagderI am back, sort of
17:43:17Bagderjust 30 mins ago
17:43:52dumbkid found it
17:43:54dumbkid playback.h
17:44:09bluebrotherwhen speaking of tags ... I think we should rename the "ID3 Info" to something more generic ... like "Metadata".
17:44:23rasherBagder: any idea why creates a 'gcc' executable (as opposed to $ARCH-gcc)? Didn't happen when I built them manually
17:44:31rasherbluebrother: I already did this (iirc) in the Danish translation
17:44:43Bagderrasher: does it? no idea why...
17:45:18bluebrotherI vote for changing this in all languages ;-)
17:45:20dumbkid where is struct mp3entry declared?
17:45:23rasherBurnt me today as those dirs ended up first in my path, so `which gcc` pointed to what was in fact sh-elf-gcc
17:45:32rasherdumbkid: firmware/export/id3.h
17:46:14rasherbluebrother: definately, as well as "ID3 Database"
17:46:36rasher(didn't change that though, for some reason)
17:46:40linuxstb_Maybe just "Tag Info", rather than "Metadata".
17:46:55bluebrotherlinuxstb_, I agree with this.
17:46:59rasherSong info
17:47:03rasher"what's a tag?"
17:47:25linuxstb_I've never heard anyone say "what's a tag", but people have said "what is metadata"
17:47:44bluebrotherhmm. With social networks and them usually using tags I assume most people will understand the word "tag".
17:47:45rashernevermind me
17:48:01rasherMost people don't use social networks
17:48:40linuxstb_Also, "Song info" wouldn't work if the track wasn't a song...
17:48:51rasherYeah, I was about to say that
17:48:54rasherin fact.
17:48:55bluebrotherare they still that uncommon? But I also think the word "tag" implies additional information (like a tag on my luggage when travelling)
17:49:17rasherYeah, my objection to "tag" is probably related to not being a native speaker
17:49:19linuxstb_We already use "tag" for tagcache, so it would be consistent in that respect.
17:49:38linuxstb_(even though tagcache itself is perhaps a little cryptic)
17:49:47bluebrotherrasher, I'm also not a native speaker ;-)
17:50:31 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
17:51:48dumbkid strncat(tagstring, oldstring1, MAX_TAG_LENGTH - 1); strncat(tagstring, oldstring2, MAX_TAG_LENGTH - 1);
17:52:15dumbkid with this function tagstring could be nearly 2x MAX_TAG_LENGTH long
17:52:20dumbkid or am i wrong?
17:52:42_FireFly_yes you are wrong because in both calles strncat will add the text to the start of tagstring
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17:53:17_FireFly_-> the text ov oldstring1 gets overwritten with oldstring2
17:53:21dumbkid why to the start?
17:53:30dumbkid in man strncat is written:
17:53:37DoubleThink2hey I have a bit of a pointless question... (once again)...
17:53:48DoubleThink2Hey instead of attaching Loader 2 to the firmware.... is it possible to make it boot Loader 2 without doing that
17:53:57DoubleThink2by dding the loader straight to sda1
17:53:57dumbkid strncat appends... to the END of the string dest
17:54:09DoubleThink2or... doesn't it work that way?
17:55:29_FireFly_dumbkid: you are right but if tagstring is only MAX_TAG_LENGTH long then you could get an buffer overrun with the second call
17:56:07dumbkid ^^ exactly thats what i wanted 2 say
17:56:07linuxstb_DoubleThink2: I've just added that functionality to tools/scramble in Rockbox. Just do "cd tools ; make scramble ; ./scramble -ipod4g loader2.bin loader2.img" and then write loader2.img to the firmware partition.
17:57:13DoubleThink2does setting up everything to compile it take ages?
17:57:20linuxstb_DoubleThink2: I _think_ that will work... But why "loader2" ? If you do that, you'll have no Apple firmware, so why do you need a menu?
17:57:46DoubleThink2because you can make Loader 2 boot the firmware straight from a file
17:57:49linuxstb_DoubleThink2: If you're in Linux, you should already have gcc installed.
17:57:51DoubleThink2Loader 2.3 anyway
17:58:04DoubleThink2it's just gcc...?
17:58:27DoubleThink2because I am setting up everything to compile podzilla and iPL stuff... and it's taking a while
17:58:28_FireFly_linuxstb_: not really if he uses a binary distri
17:58:29linuxstb_"scramble.c" is just a tool to run on your PC, so yes, it needs a normal gcc.
17:59:18linuxstb__FireFly_: I can't imagine any Linux user not have gcc installed. Not everything will be available in your distro.
17:59:35DoubleThink2yeah 'course I have gcc
17:59:40rasherlinuxstb_: my laptop (Ubuntu) does not have gcc
17:59:56dionoeaapt-get install gcc
18:00:05_FireFly_rasher: ubuntu itself has an gcc but you haven't it yet installed
18:00:28rasherOf course, I know this.. but I don't see why all Linux users should have gcc installed.
18:01:03 Join agabus [0] (
18:01:31 Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:01:45agabusin the Browse Themes menu, on a fresh install of Rockbox which one is the default theme that comes with rockbox. i mean the no-theme one.
18:02:05agabusoh... turns out there's a rockbox_default....
18:02:07_FireFly_rockbox-default ?
18:02:16DoubleThink2ahmm... linuxstb, do I still use -ipod4g even though I don't have a 4g ipod?
18:03:09rasherDamn, my favourite sids don't sound right
18:03:10linuxstb_DoubleThink2: Yes. Everything that isn't a 3g or 5g I call a 4g....
18:03:12agabuswell anyways, i just installed Rockbox on my 60gig ipod and im listening to blood sugar sex magic in FLAC now and it sounds awesome
18:04:01DoubleThink2that... simplifies thing I guess...
18:05:26 Quit MrStaticVoid (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:05:28agabuson the iCatcher theme what is the % up in the top left hand corner for?
18:06:10 Join MrStaticVoid [0] (
18:07:59rasherHah, VARIOUS/A-F/Boogaloo might be interesting if you have the HVSC
18:08:22bluebrotheragabus, battery level
18:08:44agabusbluebrother - 80% empty or 80% full?
18:09:29 Join Sinbios [0] (
18:10:36agabusdoes Rockbox settings generally sound better? or is that the fact i went from listening to -v0 mp3 rips to FLAC, or is it perhaps the placebo effect?
18:11:17DoubleThink2linuxstb..... do I need to get the scrambler thing off cvs?
18:11:20bluebrotherpossibly a combination of all ;-)
18:11:40linuxstb_DoubleThink2: Yes. You can download it via viewcvs if you want.
18:11:53agabusi'm going to compare the sound coming out of mine to a friends with the same tracks playing tomorrow and i'll see what i conclude
18:11:54linuxstb_Sorry, you can't... It needs a few other files, not just scramble.c
18:12:01bluebrotherrockbox simply doesn't do any sound "enhancements" nobody knows exactly what they do to your music.
18:12:05DoubleThink2do I need just the 1 file...... ok... once step ahead of me
18:12:15k8toagabus: i'm kinda doubting -v 0 to flac is noticable
18:12:35k8toagabus: but sometimes different soundchip initializations chage sonic character significantly
18:12:45agabusk8to - as am i, but i swear it sounds better
18:13:07k8tomaybe it is that
18:13:10rasherlinuxstb_: is the sudoku patch, I'm off now
18:13:19 Quit PaulJam (".")
18:13:24DoubleThink2but rockbox-2.5.tar.gz won't have it yet will it?
18:13:25k8toagabus: it is too bad you cannot quickly reboot to do A/B stuff
18:13:43k8toagabus: with a friend you could do blind testing maybe
18:13:50 Quit rasher ("leaving")
18:13:53agabusk8to - yeah i will test soon
18:14:46k8toi guess there are certain sources that even -v 0 has some trouble with
18:14:49k8towhat do you listen to?
18:14:55linuxstb_DoubleThink2: Click on "CVS Builds" in the menu on the left of the Rockbox home page, and downloading the latest source archive from there. (under the Rockbox logo at the very bottom of the page)
18:15:26agabusk8to - i have only put Chili Peppers - Blood Sugar Sex Magic on there at the moment, cuz i just installed
18:15:36DoubleThink2 ?
18:16:00k8toagabus: that's pretty undemanding of codecs, i think
18:16:10DoubleThink2ok thanks
18:16:17agabusk8to - how do you mean?
18:16:41k8toagabus: well like classical music has immense dynamic range, and some elctronic has ludicrously sharp pure tones etc
18:16:52k8toagabus: but pop rock is usually somewhat easy for mp3
18:17:31agabusk8to - well then it's likely Rockbox's equalizer settings
18:17:49 Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@
18:18:12linuxstb_Unless you've changed anything, Rockbox should set everything completely flat.
18:18:25 Quit dumbkid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:18:28agabuslinuxstb_ - and yet the bass sounds amazing?
18:18:42 Quit freqmod ("Konversation terminated!")
18:18:56linuxstb_What player do you have?
18:18:59grimmanI'm gonna have to chime in and say I think Rockbox sounds better as well.
18:19:07agabusipod video 60gig
18:19:24grimmanagabus: Same as me.
18:19:37linuxstb_Yes, a few people at with ipod videos have said Rockbox sounds better...
18:19:38agabusgrimman - dude it sounds better ay
18:20:30grimmanApple OS audio output always sounded a bit... muffled.
18:21:24agabusim transferring like 25 gig of flac to mine now
18:21:38 Quit MrStaticVoid (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:21:48 Join MrStaticVoid [0] (
18:21:50grimmanDoes Rockbox have OGG codecs btw?
18:21:59agabussurely it does
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18:22:09linuxstb_Yes, vorbis and speex on the way.
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18:22:26_FireFly_and wavpack ...
18:22:28grimmanNice nice.
18:22:37dumbkid re
18:22:40dumbkid had a disconnect
18:23:01grimmanKinda crappy not to have support for that. From Apples side that is.
18:23:28dumbkid the line
18:23:28dumbkidchar orginalartist[25];
18:23:28dumbkidreserves 26 bytes of memory, right?
18:23:44agabusgrimman - if apple embraces the ogg format, the digital world would be a better place
18:24:24_FireFly_grimman: here is a list off all supported codecs:
18:24:33grimman_FireFly_: Cheers.
18:24:58grimmanSID too? *glee*
18:26:18linuxstb_dan_a: Did you successfully test musepack on your 3g?
18:27:57dan_alinuxstb: What extention would that be?
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18:28:54dan_airiver-standard.mpc plays flawlessly if I'm not on the WPS
18:29:24dumbkid please help me
18:29:29dumbkid ;)
18:30:08k8todumbkid: it reserves 25, to my knowledge
18:30:43dumbkid doest it also reserve the [0]?
18:31:25k8tochar foo[x] reserves space for x char variables, it doesn't care that you need a null
18:31:30_FireFly_dumbkid: it is reserve 25 Bytes and the index is from 0 to 24
18:31:38dumbkid ah ok
18:32:13DoubleThink2hmm.... the loader doesn't work the way it says it should
18:32:41DoubleThink2but thanks linuxstb, the scramble thing worked perfectly
18:33:59dumbkid any ideas whats the porblem of my log?
18:35:04linuxstb_DoubleThink2: So loader2 loads OK?
18:36:01DoubleThink2but the " Apple OS @ (hd0,1)/apple_os.bin" line in the loader config file doesn't work right
18:36:19DoubleThink2(hd0,2) actually
18:37:27DoubleThink2oh and not only does loader2 load ok it also loads hell of a lot faster
18:39:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:40:22 Join pill [0] (
18:40:38dumbkidwhat is the value of MAX_PATH?
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18:42:17linuxstb_DoubleThink2: Yes, that's because a copy of the apple firmware is no longer being loaded into memory with the bootloader.
18:42:51linuxstb_What happens if you try and load the apple firmware? Does it just crash?
18:43:17linuxstb_dumbkid: Something like 256.
18:44:04DoubleThink2it has the loading status bar type thing then says something along the lines of "load complete, starting...".... the screen goes a bit darker and I am back in the loader 2 menu
18:44:46DoubleThink2and this was exactly what happened before I did the scramble thing
18:44:52*freqmod added speex speed improvements uwb (32kHz mono) realtime with 90% pitch on ipod (gcc4).
18:45:01freqmodit seems like it loades itself
18:45:27DoubleThink2yeah that's what I thought
18:45:30linuxstb_DoubleThink2: How did you create the "apple_os.bin" file?
18:45:37DoubleThink2it is the file you sent me
18:45:43linuxstb_No it isn't...
18:45:43DoubleThink2the extracted firmware
18:45:49DoubleThink2renamed to that
18:46:18linuxstb_The file I sent you was an image of the firmware partition. You need to use ipod_fw to extract apple_os.bin from that image.
18:46:45DoubleThink2oh >.> ... I am an idiot then
18:46:58grimmanDoubleThink2: You should admit such things, ever.
18:47:25DoubleThink2*shouldn't ?
18:47:34grimmanDoh. Yes.
18:48:32grimmanSee, there's hope for you yet. ;D
18:48:53DoubleThink2I just don't understand how all this works well so I make stupid mistakes
18:49:17grimmanNothing permanent I should think.
18:49:46*freqmod loaded apple os from file (works)
18:49:54DoubleThink2guess I learn from my mistakes
18:50:05linuxstb_freqmod: Which ipod?
18:50:07DoubleThink2freqmod, using loader 2.4 or 2.3?
18:52:55 Nick dan_a is now known as dan_a_away (n=dan-mirc@
18:53:29*freqmod didn't use scramble (yet) on ipod Video will check loader soon
18:54:13linuxstb_freqmod: scramble won't help on the 5g if you want to use Apple's firmware - it doesn't copy the rsrc file to the partition.
18:54:52freqmoddo i need the rsrcfile for using the apple firmware with ipodloader2
18:55:23DoubleThink2ok it booted properly
18:55:32linuxstb_freqmod: Yes.
18:55:44DoubleThink2actually no it's frozen
18:56:06DoubleThink2can't do anything (hold is off(not that stupid))
18:56:12*freqmod is using 2.5d1 (from cvs/svn a little more than week ago)
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18:57:36dumbkid HEEEEEEEEELP
18:57:41dumbkid it doesnt work
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18:57:46dumbkid somebody with time?
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18:57:59bluebrotherno, but what's your exact problem?
18:58:04 Join obo [0] (
18:58:12dumbkid this
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18:58:39dumbkid i dont know why it dont work
18:58:47dumbkid it already worked with my changes...
18:58:50bluebrotherwhat are you doing? Runining a logf-enabled build on the device?
18:58:58dumbkid a bit more
18:59:16dumbkid i changed the add_tagcache void
18:59:20freqmoddo I copy the output from scramble to my ipod or do i have to run it trough make_fw?
18:59:26bluebrotherand the player crashes?
18:59:51dumbkid so that when an artist has and & in his name (Britney Spears & Madonna) he does 3 entries in the tagcache
18:59:55dumbkid 1 madonna
18:59:58dumbkid 1 britner
18:59:59dumbkid 1 both
19:00:07dumbkid no, but he cant load the tagcache
19:00:18dumbkid tagcache failed init
19:00:18dumbkidtoo long entry!
19:00:18dumbkidinserting new tags...
19:00:42bluebrotherdoes it work when not having any files with & in the artist name?
19:01:11dumbkid didnt check
19:01:17dumbkid but i hope i found the problem
19:01:30dumbkid (i was searching 20 min, 1 post here and i find it myself.. strange)
19:01:33dumbkid +1 missing
19:01:44dumbkid i hope itll work now
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19:02:37linuxstb_freqmod: The output from scramble should be written to the first partition using ipodpatcher or dd
19:02:47dumbkid jehaw
19:02:51dumbkid it works
19:03:03dumbkid i just found this by luck
19:03:15dumbkid errors like that are inpossible to find arent they?
19:03:32freqmodit worked, but I revert to mkfw because as you said the apple firmware would not boot :(
19:03:39bluebrothernot really. You could run it in the simulator and use a debugger
19:04:07dumbkid how can i debug it?
19:04:21bluebrotherbut some errors of that kind are pretty hard to find.
19:04:39bluebrotherbuild the simulator, and run it through gdb
19:04:48dumbkid what is gdb
19:04:56bluebrothergnu debugger.
19:04:57freqmodgnu debugger
19:05:07dumbkid gui?
19:05:21dumbkid :/
19:05:22bluebrothertry ddd if you want a gui.
19:05:38bluebrotherkdevelop also has a gui to gdb
19:05:58bluebrotherbut I haven't managed to debug it the simulator. But I haven't tried too hard.
19:06:17dumbkid does the uisim work under linux?
19:06:37dumbkid who of you cracks is using linux atm?
19:06:45markunnot me
19:06:52*bluebrother uses Fedora Core 5 ATM.
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19:09:19dumbkid u know everything
19:10:14bluebrotherknow everything?
19:10:56dumbkid at least it looks like that for me
19:11:00dumbkid thats enough ;)
19:12:24 Quit Nico_P ()
19:14:50dumbkid one more time (for the dumb kid)
19:14:51dumbkidif p is the pointer to address 0x100, saved under adress 0x150
19:14:51dumbkidand the adresses values are 0x100=a 0x101=b 0x102=/n (is that the char for end of string? should be)
19:14:51DBUGEnqueued KICK dumbkid
19:14:51dumbkidwhat is p
19:14:52***Alert Mode level 1
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19:16:04linuxstb_p is 0x100, &p is 0x150 and *p is 'a'
19:16:19dumbkid ok thx
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19:17:05linuxstb_And 0x102 will be zero - that's the end of string char.
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19:20:40Paul_The_NerdIs anyone who's worked on video for Rockbox in the past around?
19:22:04dumbkid so with
19:22:04dumbkidwhile !(*pointer == 0) *pointer++;
19:22:04dumbkidill find the end of a string?
19:22:22linuxstb_Paul_The_Nerd: You mean the video player on Archos?
19:23:10Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb_: Actually, I mean any of the various efforts toward a new video player.
19:23:21linuxstb_dumbkid: No. You want to incremement thbe pointer, so "pointer++".
19:23:32dumbkid uhm yes
19:23:34markunPaul_The_Nerd: mirak was the only one so far I think
19:23:37dumbkid i thought of that xD
19:23:42dumbkid but would it work?
19:23:43Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb_: I was wondering how suitable the TCPMP sources might be, since they're GPLed, and when I inquired about the sources (it's an "email to get your GPL source" type thing) they said that they'd looked at Rockbox
19:23:55Paul_The_NerdIn fact, they said it could "EASILY be ported to Rockbox"
19:23:57linuxstb_dumbkid: Also, "!(*pointer==0)" is the same as just (*pointer).
19:24:02Paul_The_NerdBut that they'd decided not to, as it wasn't in their project's direction.
19:24:11Paul_The_NerdEmphasis wasn't mine, by the way.
19:24:14dumbkid right
19:24:18 Quit [HO]vo|t ()
19:24:24linuxstb_Paul_The_Nerd: I've looked at video a tiny bit, and helped mirak with a few things.
19:24:53***Alert Mode OFF
19:25:25Paul_The_NerdWould you be interested in looking at the TCPMP sources, or at least giving me a couple pointers toward what I should look for before I start anything?
19:25:46linuxstb_Just downloading them now...
19:26:17linuxstb_Ah, it's just using ffmpeg.
19:26:50Paul_The_NerdI hadn't even gotten to checking if it was fixed point or not yet, as I figured the first thing I should do was ask if anyone had looked at it yet.
19:26:56linuxstb_But it coul be useful to see if they have any ARM optimisations not in ffmpeg's cvs.
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19:27:20Paul_The_NerdI would imagine they do, since many smartphones are ARM.
19:27:21dumbkidhow can i "unregister" a variable / make the space free
19:28:05bluebrotherdumbkid, you can't.
19:28:21bluebrotheryou can do so for dynamically allocated space (malloc) with free.
19:28:41Paul_The_NerdIt runs XVid nicely at 320*240 on my phone, so I figured it's probably at least fairly fast.
19:29:16dumbkidbut i need to declare a pointer which i need only for line, which steals the ram of my iriver then all the time?
19:29:59linuxstb_Ouch, it's using libFLAC for FLAC instead of ffmpeg...
19:30:29bluebrotherjust don't declare it globally. When it becomes invalid by leaving the function it can be used otherwise (by the compiler)
19:30:40bluebrotherthe space for that variable, I mean.
19:31:04 Quit lodesi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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19:32:37dumbkidcould you take a look at this?
19:32:40 Quit bluey- ("Leaving")
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19:34:16bluebrotherptemp is '\0' after the first ptemp while loop, so the second (skipping trailing spaces) does nothing.
19:34:55bluebrotheralso, as you're dealing with chars I'd suggest you use '\0' for marking the string end.
19:35:29bluebrotherbecause ptemp is incremented until its content is '\0', meaning you have reached the end of a string.
19:35:45dumbkidand than its decremented
19:35:56dumbkidas long as. ! ah
19:35:58bluebrothernow, when you want to skip trailing spaces directly afterwards *ptemp = '\0'.
19:36:26bluebrotherso while(*ptmp == ' ') is false on the first run and thus gets never executed.
19:36:38bluebrotheryou can use do ... while or decrement it manually first.
19:36:39Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb_: So, do you think it might at least be a good starting point?
19:36:50dumbkidwhile (*ptemp) ptemp++;
19:36:51dumbkidwhile (*ptemp == ' ') ptemp−−;
19:36:51dumbkid *ptemp = '\0';
19:37:02dumbkid while (*ptemp) ptemp++;
19:37:03dumbkidwhile (*ptemp == ' ') ptemp−−;
19:37:03dumbkid*ptemp = '\0';
19:37:10dumbkidthis should work, shouldnt it?
19:37:36linuxstb_Paul_The_Nerd: Maybe, but there's a _lot_ of unneccessary (and probably unused) source code in the archive. (at least the one I found -
19:38:11Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb_: That's the one I've got too. He said they're releasing it as "BetaPlayer" in a month or two.
19:38:17dumbkidstill a bug -.-
19:38:26dumbkidit would cut of 1 char to much
19:39:26linuxstb_Although there seems to be a nice mpeg1 video decoder there...
19:39:30bluebrotheryes, it's the same as above. After the last while loop you point to the first character that isn't a space.
19:40:05bluebrotherso terminate the string with *(++ptemp) = '\0';
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19:41:35dumbkidwhat does the do cmd do?
19:43:23linuxstb_Paul_The_Nerd: Do you know the CPU in your phone (the one capable of 320x240 xvid) ?
19:43:37dumbkidwhats about this?
19:45:10Paul_The_Nerdlinuxstb_: Well, I didn't expect Rockbox to get XVid on our current generation of players. It's a 195 MHZ TI OMAP 850 (ARM9) I believe.
19:45:49Paul_The_NerdRunning on a windows mobile smartphone though, so there's a lot of additional overhead I imagine.
19:46:31linuxstb_But maybe also some hardware accelleration...
19:47:13Paul_The_NerdThat is possible.
19:47:25linuxstb_The MPEG-1 decoder looks interesting though... I think we could get that working quite well.
19:48:11Paul_The_NerdWell, a start is a start, at least.
19:48:51 Quit Mmmm ("Byeee")
19:48:53Slasheridumbkid: pos = strlen(ptemp); while (pos−− > 0) { if (ptemp[pos] != ' ') break; ptemp[pos] = '\0'; }
19:48:57linuxstb_BHSPitMonkey: Any news on video playback in IPL?
19:49:00Slasheridumbkid: that _could_ work better
19:49:12BHSPitMonkeylinuxstb_, regarding?
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19:49:46linuxstb_I mean have there been any recent developments?
19:49:51BHSPitMonkeyNsN made a compressed video player as a module for pz2 some time ago
19:50:11BHSPitMonkeyI've been following the iPod hacking community no closer than you have, linuxstb :/
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19:50:37BHSPitMonkeyI'm just now reading about the feature unfreeze and CVS commits
19:50:37linuxstb_OK :)
19:50:54BHSPitMonkeyand looking at some seriously sexy WPS's in the 5G gallery :)
19:51:09linuxstb_The big news I guess is that Rockbox now works with audio playback on the 3g.
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19:51:33DoubleThink2ah.... my linux died
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19:52:40BHSPitMonkeybless your heart.
19:52:44BHSPitMonkeywill there be a memorial?
19:53:29ShyKlinuxstb_: it does? great
19:56:30 Quit dumbkid (".")
19:56:52ShyKPaul_The_Nerd: valueable suggestion - don't get near TCPMP
19:57:33Paul_The_NerdWhy's that?
19:57:58ShyKin fact, don't get anywhere near any Core/Matroska related project
19:58:17ShyKunless you want complete lack of treatment from anyone there
19:58:59Paul_The_NerdOh, so just bad support?
19:59:04ShyKwe've had a long painful history with Matroska people
19:59:20DoubleThink2bbs... going to try to fix my linux =(
19:59:24 Part DoubleThink2
19:59:50ShyKif i posted any of the many "private" talks we had to do, you'd see just how crappy they are.
19:59:57BHSPitMonkeybulletin board system?
20:00:29Paul_The_NerdShyK: So, assuming I don't need to actually *talk* to them, are there any technical reasons I should be avoiding TCPMP?
20:00:59 Quit lds_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:01:05ShyKwell, there is no development whatsoever
20:01:32ShyKthey're gonna completely abandon their buggy code and move on to private payware software
20:02:21ShyKtcpmp is dead
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20:02:44Paul_The_NerdI don't know, I was told that they're planning a release in the next two months, just yesterday.
20:02:48ShyKbetaplayer is basically their old, unsupported crap that they'll release for the community (as they themselves said)
20:02:58CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
20:02:58*Paul_The_Nerd shrugs.
20:03:14ShyKas they say, they'll throw it and let people deal with it
20:03:15Paul_The_NerdEither way, TCPMP plays my videos just fine on my phone, and for Rockbox it's mostly the codecs that are of interest.
20:03:38Paul_The_NerdSo, whether they support it or not, it's GPL code that may provide a decent starting point.
20:03:57beobahi, i was getting this yesterday, and was told that the ipod needs to have the pc-style partition table rather than the apple-style one, is this resolvable via, say, fdisk?:
20:04:13ShyKyes, perhaps. though from their history i'd expect you'd have many problems. but i realize there isn't much else available
20:05:07obosee the section about converting to FAT32?
20:05:17linuxstb_beoba: You'll need to fully convert your ipod to FAT32 in order to use Rockbox.
20:05:22beobayeah, didnt see it yesterday
20:05:23cariniAny devs around that would be willing to check out a very small patch?
20:05:37beobai skimmed over that sentence and assumed you just meant reformatting the existing partitions
20:05:42beobarather than changing the partition tables as a whole
20:05:50beobai see it as of now, though, thanks
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20:09:21ShyKPaul_The_Nerd: basically, as i've seen in many irc conversations, etc, they themselves wouldn't dare bother themselves with their public domain code since it's hopelessly buggy. so, better note that. if you find alternatives, better check well what is better :).
20:12:09 Quit BockBilbo ("Ex-Chat")
20:12:11linuxstb_You mean their GPL code?
20:14:53linuxstb_As Paul_The_Nerd said, the only interesting parts of tcpmp are their codecs, and they all seem to be from other GPL projects anyway, such as ffmpeg, libmad, libFLAC etc
20:15:26linuxstb_So it doesn't seem that interesting - apart from an MPEG-1 codec they seem to have written themselves.
20:15:59dumbkidwhen i want to use diff the oldfile and the newfile have to have the same name, dont they?
20:18:38linuxstb_No - the names can be the same.
20:18:52linuxstb_(assuming they are in different directories)
20:20:21ShyKlinuxstb_: i would bet the libavcodec mpeg-1 decoder is much better
20:20:23dumbkidbut wont patch search for the renamed file then to patch it?
20:22:41linuxstb_ShyK: Yes, but it's a nightmare to extract from ffmpeg
20:23:20linuxstb_But maybe we should just port ffmpeg as a whole...
20:23:40Paul_The_NerdThat might be a good idea.
20:23:49Paul_The_NerdWe seem to enjoy a lot of their code already.
20:23:58ShyKi'd say yes. no other alternative exists that is fully featured except ffmpeg
20:24:21dumbkid $ patch -R < splitartist.patch
20:24:21dumbkidpatching file tagcache.c
20:24:21dumbkidHunk #1 FAILED at 1237.
20:24:21DBUGEnqueued KICK dumbkid
20:24:21dumbkid1 out of 1 hunk FAILED −− saving rejects to file tagcache.c.rej
20:24:24ShyKmaybe not be the fastest, but has very much active development and stable decoders
20:24:36dumbkidwhy doesnt it work? i just patched it with the same file
20:27:11dumbkidit works just in 1 direction :/
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20:28:30 Part Paul_The_Nerd
20:29:07linuxstb_dumbkid: What command did you use to create splitartist.patch?
20:29:31bagawklostlogic: didn't know you were a gentoo developer
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20:30:49dumbkid $ diff -ud tagcache.c > splitartist.patch
20:31:02DoubleThink2back... with fixed linux =)
20:35:44dumbkiddo i have to change the
20:35:45dumbkid−−- apps/ 2006-07-22 10:04:28.000000000 +0200
20:35:45dumbkid+++ apps/tagcache.c 2006-07-22 20:02:41.015625000 +0200
20:35:45dumbkid−−- apps/tagcache.c 2006-07-22 10:04:28.000000000 +0200
20:35:45***Alert Mode level 1
20:35:45dumbkid+++ apps/tagcache.c 2006-07-22 20:02:41.015625000 +0200
20:37:46bagawkdumbkid: no, patch knows how to deal with that stuff
20:38:57bagawkdumbkid: normally it is easier to make a copy of the rockbox source directory, work in one of them and then diff to the origional, it will keep the filenames easier to see
20:39:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:39:41 Quit lodesi (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable))
20:39:41DoubleThink2using the scramble to make loader2.img the boot partition seems to make the loader freeze sometimes.... and also when booting into the apple firmware through apple_os.bin it freezes..... any ideas?
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20:42:28dumbkidbut i dont understand why patch -R < splitartist.patch doesnt work :/
20:43:49bagawkdumbkid: are you in the apps dir?
20:44:11dumbkidim in my home dir
20:44:26dumbkidbut i copied the tagcache.c to my homedir
20:44:35 Quit carini ("Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox]")
20:44:38bagawkdumbkid: ohh, use the -p1 option
20:44:46dumbkidthen patched it with my patchdir (in homedir 2) and cant patch back
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20:44:59dumbkidi mean patchfile, sry
20:45:06dumbkiddoesnt work 2
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20:45:46***Alert Mode OFF
20:46:28bagawkdumbkid: not to sure, I do not work with patch very much anymore
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20:50:02DoubleThink2"using the scramble to make loader2.img the boot partition seems to make the loader freeze sometimes.... and also when booting into the apple firmware through apple_os.bin it freezes"
20:50:03DoubleThink2so then nobody knows what I am talking about?
20:52:11CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
20:52:11*scottder reads about the feature...umm thaw
20:52:23dumbkidwhat are .o files?
20:53:54bagawkdumbkid: object files
20:54:08 Part UrbanNightmare ("Ex-Chat")
20:54:11dumbkidsomething like binarys?
20:54:21bagawkdumbkid: basicly compiled, ready to be linked into an executable
20:54:39dumbkidok, dlls :)
20:54:54k8to_although similar
20:55:27k8to_a series of .o files can be combined into a .exe, or a .so/.dll
20:55:37k8to_depending upon how they are linked, and the intended purpose
20:55:48k8to_or, also a static library (.a) but this doesn't come up so much these days
20:56:29 Join Febs [0] (
20:56:53k8to_in C, each file is compiled seperately, and then the results of those seperate compilation steps are joined together
20:57:04k8to_so, the .o is the result of the individual file compilations
20:59:10dumbkidwhats the difference beetween a static library and a dynamic
20:59:46Ribsa static program has all the libraries it needs built into it
20:59:55Ribsa dynamic one loads up the external libraries as required.
20:59:58k8to_dumbkid: so, first we just have .o files
21:00:07k8to_dumbkid: and we can link these into a program
21:00:30k8to_dumbkid: but if we wanted to make a set of code to use over and over, this is kind of messy, so libraries were invented
21:00:40linuxstb_A static library is linked to the application at compile-time. A dynamic library is linked at run-time.
21:01:33k8to_dumbkid: a static library, or archive is just a pile of .o files stored together. when a program is linked against a static library, the linker pulls out the various .o files which the program actually uses, and combines them with the .o files the programmer built against his program, and a combined executable is created
21:02:02DoubleThink2linuxstb.... using the loader as the only thing on sda1 is not possible without scrambler yet?
21:02:42k8to_dumbkid: a shared library is more complex. instead of just pulling the .o files out of the .a and linking them in, it instead adds special code to the created exeuctable that will cause the shared library to be linked in at runtime
21:03:11k8to_a static library is basically a zip or tar file for .os
21:03:21k8to_it only matters when building the software
21:03:35k8to_dynamic libraries are nice because the memory is shared, and they can be upgraded without recompiling
21:03:39k8to_the end
21:03:41linuxstb_DoubleThink2: Maybe IPL have tools for it, but I've not been following the loader2 development very closely.
21:04:02dumbkidis there the possibility to already link a dll during compiletime, so that the client dont need that file?
21:04:06DoubleThink2nuh I couldn't find anything on iPL
21:04:20DoubleThink2and doing it this way seems to make it hang up
21:04:22k8to_dumbkid: i don't know about windows so much, but that's not the way it is usually done
21:04:47_FireFly_dumbkid: for this static librarys are for
21:05:05linuxstb_DoubleThink2: Does loader2 work reliably if it's loaded in the traditional way (i.e. using make_fw/ipod_fw) ?
21:05:09k8to_dumbkid: for most use cases of dll files, if you had all the source, or the equivalent static libraries, you could change it around so that it would all be linked into the program
21:05:22k8to_dumbkid: i mean, you could build the program that way
21:05:23mordovbugg report: my tagcahce somtimes hang on uppdate and when I reset my H120 the tagchace is gone all the files are deleted.
21:05:37k8to_dumbkid: there's very little advantage to this, so it is not typically done
21:05:52DoubleThink2linuxstf_: yeah it works fine that way
21:08:35dumbkiddoes the logf version have any disadvantages towards the usual normal version?
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21:18:26linuxstb_dumbkid: It uses more memory, and will run very slightly slower (depending on how much logging you are doing).
21:20:33DoubleThink2is svn the same thing as cvs or something similar.... or irrelevant?
21:22:14_FireFly_svn is similar to cvs but imho better
21:22:18linuxstb_svn and cvs are two different versioning systems.
21:22:43DoubleThink2ok thanks
21:23:19linuxstb_If you're talking about IPL, they used to have their code in cvs (at sourceforge), now they have it in svn (hosted elsewhere). But I think some things are still in cvs only.
21:23:37linuxstb_(e.g. the kernel)
21:24:14DoubleThink2latest loader2 source is in svn
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22:00:36DoubleThink2linuxstb: what were the switches to make loader2.img properly again? (sorry.... don't have the chat logged)
22:04:21DoubleThink2oh... swazzy... thanks
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22:13:57 Nick dan_a_away is now known as dan_a (n=dan-mirc@
22:14:39DoubleThink2ok it works fine with the latest svn code of loader.... though I forgot what I was tyring to accomplish
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22:17:05theprodukkt_ why can i compile my code without problem as simulator, but when tryin to make a normal build i get the following error?
22:17:05theprodukkt_Build LDS file
22:17:05theprodukkt_LD rockbox.elf
22:17:05DBUGEnqueued KICK theprodukkt_
22:17:05theprodukkt_ence to `strtok'
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22:17:07theprodukkt_ence to `strncat'
22:17:09theprodukkt_ence to `strtok'
22:17:11theprodukkt_collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
22:17:13theprodukkt_make[1]: *** [/home/Alexander/rockbox/edit/rockbox-devel/build/apps/rockbox.elf]
22:17:15theprodukkt_ Error 1
22:17:17theprodukkt_make: *** [all] Error 2
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22:18:12dionoeamaybe rockbox just doesn't have strncat and strtok
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22:20:05dionoeabtw, strtok is really a crappy function ... it shouldn't be used
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22:50:58sidolini'm using rockbox on my ipod photo with the jblackglass theme which needs its own kernel, but after installing this kernel the plugin dont work anymoure
22:51:24sidolinhow can i get the plugins running without having to recompile everything?
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23:00:40PaulJamwhat happens if you try to run a plugin?
23:02:24sidolinit says "incompatible version"
23:02:26goffa_heh.. is yahoo havin troubles?
23:02:34goffa_i can't get to even
23:02:59obogoffa_: works here
23:03:31sidolingoffa_: here too
23:03:46sidolingoffa_: try
23:03:58CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
23:03:58*dan_a does a little jump for joy
23:03:59_FireFly_goffa_: maybe an router problem if you have one
23:04:18goffa_well... i'm thinking isp wide... had a couple of friends call me
23:04:21goffa_they can't log in to messenger
23:04:35dan_aI've just listened to the whole of Cupid by Otis Redding in MP3 without a single skip
23:05:19obodan_a: what did you do to get it working?
23:05:58dan_aobo: I compliled libmad with -O instead of -O2, and I'm running the CPU at 90MHz
23:06:20dionoeaisn't -02 supposed to be better ?
23:06:30obowhat's the boost ratio at? and is it getting toasty warm?
23:06:32dan_adionoea: In theory
23:06:39sidolinit doesnt have to be better
23:07:11 Quit damaki__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:07:14dan_aobo: boost is 100%
23:07:30dan_aIf I'm in any screen that moves, I get underruns
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23:08:13 Quit Poka64 ("nite")
23:08:14dan_aIt doesn't feel too hot, but I've set up frequency scaling so it drops back to 30MHz when playing is paused
23:08:26dionoeayou're doing that for the 3g ipods right ?
23:08:37dan_adionoea: yes
23:09:13dionoeadoes apple also use the CPU to do the decoding ? or do they use another chip which nobody knows how to use ?
23:09:26_FireFly_afaik some codecs aren't yet optimized for ARM CPUs (used in ipods)
23:11:45Bagderthey have two cpus
23:11:51Bagderor cores at least
23:11:59Bagderand Rockbox only uses one of them
23:12:10_FireFly_at the moment
23:12:33dionoeatwo arm cpus ?
23:12:40Bagderbut it explains how the apple version gets the extra power
23:12:44Bagdertwo cores
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23:13:38dionoeaso you'll have to implement thread/mutex stuff in rockbox core i guess
23:14:04Bagdernot necessarily
23:14:21Bagderor I mean, we already do to some extent
23:14:50Bagderand we could still make an effort to keep things apart once we start using both cores
23:15:04_FireFly_afaik some synchronization is needed when more then one core is used
23:15:21dionoealike 1 core for the audio decoding thread and 1 for the other threads ?
23:15:29_FireFly_yepp for example
23:15:30Bagdersomething like that, yes
23:15:35dan_aI've seem a few chats about how to use both cores - has there been any decision?
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23:15:47dionoeado all of the ipods have the 2 cores ?
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23:15:55dan_adionoea: yes
23:16:15Bagderall portalplayer based players even
23:16:16dionoeabut i guess that this alone wont help with the 3g software codecs
23:16:42_FireFly_plus optimized codecs
23:16:59_FireFly_would gaine enought power to have the decoding faster then realtime on ipods
23:18:42dionoeaboth cores are always powered ? or can you shut one off ?
23:18:54_FireFly_currently the second core is on sleep
23:19:01_FireFly_to reduce power consumption
23:19:36dionoeaok, so that doesn't explain why battery life is lower than on original firmware ? some other chip eating more power than it should ?
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23:19:54_FireFly_could be
23:20:17dan_aAs I understand, there's a lot that we don't know about the ipod, like how to use the USB
23:20:33dan_aSo at a guess things like that might be left switched on
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23:24:33PaulJamsidolin: if you still have problems with the plugins: it sounds as if you have only copied the rockbox.ipod of the patched build on your player, you propably need to replace the .rockbox folder too.
23:25:02sidolini did
23:25:09sidolinbut i'm testing something atm
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23:28:54scottderI think plugins are built against the if they don't match, the plugins won;t work
23:29:01scottdersomeone correct me if I am wrong
23:29:27sidolini think so
23:29:54XavierGrBagder:Are you back from your vacations?
23:30:13XavierGrI hope that you had a good time! :D
23:30:36_FireFly_scottder: you can use plugins from a other build if the plguin api doesn't differ between these two builds
23:30:36XavierGrWhere did you go, if I may ask?
23:31:23Bagdernowhere special really, just to the south of Sweden where my parents live
23:31:44sidolinthe problem is that jblackglass needs its own kernel or the text wont match the wallpaper
23:31:46_FireFly_there is a plugin api version number which gets check on plugin load, and this number gets incremented when the plugin-api has changed
23:32:07_FireFly_sidolin: in which case ?
23:32:23XavierGrBagder: Ah, I got what you mean. I do this all the time.
23:32:24sidolin_FireFly_: i just want jblackglass and plugins running
23:32:49_FireFly_sidolin: how does the text don't match the wallpaper
23:33:00sidolinits on the wrong place
23:33:37*freqmod has implemented real rsrc support for scramble.c (iPod video), will post patch soon (TODO: a bit fixing & testing)
23:33:38scorchereading logbot's view of things can be...interesting...
23:33:41scorche"DBUG Enqueued KICK scorche"
23:35:17sidolinand with the jblackglass kernel the text is right but the plugins dont start
23:38:48_FireFly_sidolin: no wonder his builds are a bit out of date on his side
23:39:00sidolini know
23:39:18sidolinbut i dont really want to use old plugins
23:39:41sidolinand i think crosscompiling and applying these patches isnt so easy
23:39:57sidolinespecially if these patches are old
23:40:00_FireFly_either you download the build from 30.06.2006 from or you apply the patches yourself and compile it
23:40:22_FireFly_sidolin: it isn't so hard if you know how to do it
23:40:51sidolinok, ive got some time to waste anyway :)
23:41:20_FireFly_there is a nice guide how to do it
23:41:35sidolinNOTE: This guide is for Windows users only! :/
23:42:07PaulJami guess at least the scrolling margins patch will neet some work to apply cleanly, some recent cahnges broke it.
23:42:23_FireFly_sidolin: only the cygwin installation
23:43:19_FireFly_sidolin: to setup the cross-compile env
23:44:52linuxstbfreqmod: I'll look forward to the patch... So I assume loader2 can load the apple firmware from the FAT32 partition?
23:45:33freqmodyes, but the apple firmware is a little unstable (i don't really know why) as video works
23:45:58sidolinyeah, compiling gcc, this reminds me of installing gentoo :)
23:46:17dionoeainstalling gentoo is worse :)
23:46:49freqmod(which is the only thing that works) (diskmode doesn't work, nor does audio playing) :(
23:48:05linuxstbWhen I was working on the Rockbox bootloader, I tried to get it to load the apple firmware from a file, and it never worked reliably - so I gave up...
23:48:16_FireFly_sidolin: you can also use crossdev to create the build-env for rockbox ;)
23:48:47Bagdercp /mnt/archos/PP5022.mi4
23:49:00_FireFly_dionoea: with gentoo you have a bit more freedom of choice ,:)
23:49:10dionoeafreedom to wait too :p
23:49:46_FireFly_thats the only disadvantage
23:49:46dan_aHmmm... can anyone suggest why I get buffer underruns in the WPS, but not while I'm looking at the menu screen?
23:50:06_FireFly_dan_a: mybe too dynamic wps ?
23:50:20PaulJamdo you have peakmeters in the wps?
23:50:55dan_a_FireFly_: I'm currently using one which just shows the artist and track name, nothing dynamic
23:53:03linuxstbdan_a: I would expect that even a simple WPS will do more work than you just sitting in a menu, but I don't know how WPSs work in detail...
23:53:24linuxstbBagder: Trying a modified firmware on the Sansa?
23:53:38Bagdernow stuck in a black screen...
23:53:45Bagderwith text
23:54:37dionoeathat sounds like a good first step :)
23:55:24Bagderrecovery mode engaged
23:56:34BagderI tried with a "silly" DSA signing approach
23:56:43Bagderjust to see if a dummy set would work
23:56:52Bagderwould avoid having to patch the BL
23:57:02Bagderit didn't
23:57:03freqmodlinuxstb: do you want the patch posted as a bug, or is it ok with pastebin? (if not apple_sw_5g_rcsc.bin is present the patch does not affect the product) (tested with hexdiff and size check)
23:58:01linuxstbI'ld prefer it if you posted to the patch tracker.
23:58:12linuxstbSo it automatically looks for that file, rather than specifying it on the command-line?
23:58:16freqmodscramble.c: (posts it in the tracker too)
23:58:18dionoeai wonder why they always have to sign/encode the firmwares ...
23:58:47Bagderthey like to make it hard for us

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