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#rockbox log for 2006-07-26

00:01:58 Quit bob_ (Client Quit)
00:02:34barrywardelli'm trying that gpio stuff you suggested linuxstb but I'm having trouble
00:03:23barrywardelltrying to write to a file using fprintf but the compiler complains about an undefined reference to `fprintf'
00:04:04linuxstbThere isn't fprintf :)
00:04:16linuxstbYou need to use snprintf() and then write()
00:04:29barrywardellah, that would explain it so. thanks
00:07:38Bagderthere's an fdprintf
00:09:32linuxstbThere is?
00:09:36barrywardelland that works the same as fprintf?
00:09:50Bagderbarrywardell: yes, but with a file descriptor and not a FILE *
00:09:59linuxstbBagder: Have you done any disassembly of the bootloader yet?
00:10:03linuxstb(for the Sansa)
00:10:07 Join nudelyn [0] (
00:10:10Bagderonly very minor
00:10:57Bagderthe task feels quite daunting so I'm hesitating
00:11:18linuxstbI'm just looking at the very start of it now - the code starting at 0x5c
00:11:54barrywardellnow i'm getting warning: implicit declaration of function 'fdprintf'
00:12:08barrywardelldo I need an extra #include?
00:12:20Bagderyes, sprintf.h
00:13:01Bagderlinuxstb: you mean the BL* file?
00:13:04linuxstbIt writes some values to what IPL think is the cache controller (registers starting 0x6000C000 onwards), and then branches to address 0x106172a0 - which is beyond the end of the bootloader...
00:14:06BagderI've started at the mi4 code
00:15:01 Join JdGordon [0] (
00:16:28 Quit TucknDar ()
00:19:02linuxstbAh, the code at 0x172a0 seems to continue the initialisation - it's doing the COP/Main CPU check in the same way the ipods do.
00:19:30 Join freqmod_n [0] (
00:19:32Bagderyes I noticed that check too
00:19:42linuxstbIt's done in the .mi4 as well?
00:20:10 Quit Criamos ("( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )")
00:21:01 Quit MrStaticVoid ("leaving")
00:21:29BagderI'm not sure the BL is a true bootloader
00:21:44Bagderbut might be used mostly for the actual upgrade procedure
00:22:44linuxstbIt doesn't load the .mi4 file?
00:23:12Bagderwell yes for the upgrade but after that, I'm not sure there are traces of that left
00:23:35linuxstbSo the mi4 is flashed?
00:24:22linuxstbThat would probably explain barrywardell's trouble when trying to load it from disk and run it...
00:24:25 Part RaiderX
00:24:29linuxstb(on the H10)
00:25:42barrywardelli'm not too sure if that case
00:25:58barrywardellit definitely still runs the code in the mi4 file on disk with the h10
00:26:15Bagderso I need to check this
00:26:36Bagderperhaps I've just drawn some quick wrong conclusions
00:28:15linuxstbMy guess (based on what the ipods do) is that the BL_ image is flashed, and that loads the .mi4 from disk each time you boot.
00:31:21 Quit freqmod (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:32:12Bagderbut this player removes the mi4 file on upgrade
00:32:31barrywardellMy interpretation of the h10 at least is that on firmware upgrade 3 files are copied to the hdd. BL*.hex to /, two mi4 files to /System. The system reboots and writes BL_ to flash. it then reboots again and loads the mi4
00:32:42*Bagder tests more
00:32:49barrywardellBagder: that sounds different
00:33:26linuxstbbarrywardell: So presumably the two .mi4 files stay in /System forever?
00:35:12Bagder"To me it looks like the H10_20GC.mi4 is some sort of 'upgrade' software, which will descramble the BL_H10_20GC.hex and burn it to the flash. Then it will boot the H10_20GC_image.mi4"
00:35:21Bagder(MrH said)
00:35:28 Quit ender` (" We know the speed of light... so, what's the speed of darkness?")
00:36:05barrywardellonly one of them stays. it looks like one is an older version of the firmware for some H10_20GC.mi4 has version 2.50 in header. H10_20GC_image.mi4 has version 2.51 in header
00:36:30barrywardellthe _image one is the one that stays
00:37:07barrywardellBagder: MrH makes a lot of sense
00:37:16 Join ttyfscker [0] (n=ttyfscke@
00:37:36ttyfsckeri think i might have found a bug with the latest "stable" in rockbox nano
00:37:54linuxstbbarrywardell: So to test a bootloader, you call it H10_20GC_image.mi4 and copy it to your /System directory?
00:38:03Bagderbarrywardell: he's indeed a useful fellow
00:38:09ttyfsckeri hadn't used my ipod in about a week or so. I shut it down properly and everything with the holding Play button. This morning when i booted it up
00:38:21ttyfsckerall of my directories are on there, but their contents are all gone
00:38:49barrywardelllinuxstb: I never change the BL bootloader. When I run a test, i just build a mi4 file, call it H10_20GC.mi4 and copy it to /System
00:39:08barrywardelli build the mi4 file from bootloader.bin
00:39:14Bagderlinuxstb: we don't need to touch the bootloader on these
00:39:17barrywardellfrom rockbox
00:39:49linuxstbttyfscker: Try holding down the MENU button until the "quick menu" comes up, what does the "Show Files" option say?
00:40:03ttyfsckerhang on lemme check
00:40:36linuxstbBagder, barrywardell: When I say "bootloader", I mean barrywardell tests running a stripped-down ipod bootloader.
00:40:58Bagderuh, right
00:41:07ttyfsckerit shows all of my folders, but they have nothing in them
00:41:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:42:23barrywardelllinuxstb: in that case, then yes. only the file is called H10_20GC.mi4
00:43:25ttyfsckerthe funny thing is when i mount the ipod to /media/ipod, i can cd into it, and see all of my mp3s
00:43:32ttyfsckerthey just arent showing on the rockbox
00:43:40ttyfsckerthey were working fine before
00:45:53markunttyfscker: all the folders show up as empty?
00:46:30ttyfsckeri think i fixed it.. it was that Show Files option
00:46:36ttyfsckeri was using the keys wrong when picking that
00:46:43ttyfsckersorry guys
00:46:51ttyfsckerthanks linuxstb
00:47:33 Join TCK [0] (
00:53:59linuxstbBagder: Am I right in thinking that a "bx" to address 0x106048f3 would switch to thumb mode?
00:54:05 Quit freqmod_n (Remote closed the connection)
00:54:58Bagderyes I believe so
00:55:16linuxstbIn which case, the Sansa BL_ file is using thumb.
00:56:21BagderI'm off to bed, good night!
00:56:28Mikachugood night
01:01:26 Join apo` [0] (
01:02:26barrywardellgoodnight Bagder. thanks for the help
01:07:42 Quit mirak (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:10:13 Quit barrywardell (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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01:18:11 Quit TCK (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:18:50linuxstbbarrywardell: Any luck with the gpio stuff?
01:19:17barrywardellyeah, just getting it going now
01:19:24barrywardellwriting it out to a file
01:19:52barrywardelldo you know what fsync() does. it seems to need that and a udelay() for stuff to be written to the file
01:23:55 Quit gtkspert (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:24:06linuxstbI think Rockbox caches one sector, so fsync will write that sector. But closing the file should do the same...
01:26:25 Join Matheus5554 [0] (
01:26:36barrywardelli did a close(fd) but it doesn't seem to work with just that. i have it working now anyway and am starting to work out the buttons
01:26:49 Join safetydan [0] (
01:26:58barrywardellgpio_a seems to be related to which button is pressed
01:27:29 Nick Matheus5554 is now known as antitheist (
01:27:31barrywardelllinuxstb: is that the same as with the ipod?
01:27:32 Part antitheist
01:27:43 Join antitheist [0] (
01:29:15 Join enzyme [0] (n=dave_o@
01:29:30enzymei got a question about the ipods
01:29:55scorchethen ask it =)
01:31:16enzymewell at work i got this stereo that can play music from a usb port and i was woundering is there any way of playing mp3 off of my ipod in a disk mode that doesnt use the rockbox or ipod firmware
01:32:20scorchenot that i know of...unless someone else wants to chime in
01:32:43antitheistim presuming this stereo plugs into a pc with all necessary drivers? those types of stereos generaly require quite a bit of software
01:32:47linuxstbbarrywardell: Nice. No, the ipods don't use GPIO for the buttons (only the hold switch).
01:33:13 Join JdG|uni [0] (
01:33:29scorcheantitheist: it sounds like he has a stereo that has a USB port on it
01:33:38scorchenot one that runs off the computer
01:33:51antitheistyeah but i never used it
01:33:52enzymescorche you hit the nail
01:34:37JdG|uniwhy the heck is winxp telling me unrecognised device when i plug my h300 in?
01:35:38scorcheenzyme: like i said...i do not know of a way that will allow you to do that...however, does the stereo have composite inputs, an aux input, or anything of the sort?
01:36:10linuxstbSo what's the USB port designed for? What does it expect to be plugged into it?
01:36:13enzymealso is there a way of deleting the ipod firmware
01:36:53enzymethe usb port plays music from usb keys card
01:36:54antitheistformat it
01:36:58scorchethere is...why do you want to? is unecessary trouble in most cases
01:37:14linuxstbenzyme: Then it may work - ipods act as standard UMS hard drives.
01:37:18enzymei dont use the apple firmware
01:37:30scorcheantitheist: no...
01:37:47enzymeok how do i get it to act as a standered ums drive
01:37:50linuxstbenzyme: And yes, you can install Rockbox without the Apple firmware if you want to. But it's not documented anywhere.
01:37:55linuxstbenzyme: Just plug it in...
01:38:16scorcheenzyme: honestly, it is better to just ignore it than remove it
01:38:28 Part antitheist
01:38:43scorcheenzyme: oh...have you not tried simply plugging it in yet?
01:38:54linuxstbWhen you plug it into a normal computer, it just appears as a UMS hard drive to the computer. So it should be the same with your Stereo - assuming your stereo supports UMS hard drives.
01:39:16*scorche assumes too usual
01:39:21enzymeyeah i have but the stereo doesnt reconize it, there was one time i got music to play but i couldnt change it
01:39:53enzymechange songs
01:40:20linuxstbWhat stereo is it/
01:40:35enzymei dunno
01:40:40enzymefind out toommorow
01:42:37linuxstbbarrywardell: Do all the buttons appear to be connected to gpio_a ?
01:42:56barrywardellmost of them are
01:43:03barrywardellexcept the scroller
01:46:00 Part pixelma
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02:03:48 Part barrywardell_
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02:06:16barrywardell_linuxstb: u still there?
02:06:33barrywardell_figured out some of the button stuff
02:07:03barrywardell_gpio_a controls the normal buttons
02:07:42linuxstbStill here.
02:08:02linuxstbSo all you need now is an LCD driver...
02:08:15barrywardell_haven't figured out the scroller yet though
02:08:40linuxstbThat's probably some other kind of interface - I don't think that will be as easy.
02:08:41barrywardell_it changes gpio_c and gpio_d, but is only an on/off thing
02:08:50 Quit ttyfscker ("Leaving")
02:09:44barrywardell_how does ipod work? where can i look for the code?
02:09:53linuxstbIt's in firmware/drivers/button.c
02:10:40linuxstbYou should create a wiki page and document all these hardware findings...
02:11:01linuxstbCan you detect anything else? USB, charging, headphones?
02:11:04barrywardell_i plan to
02:11:10barrywardell_just have to get around to it
02:11:23barrywardell_i'll check those next. haven't looked into it yet
02:11:40 Quit mikearthur (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
02:12:10linuxstbBut at least you already have a simple way of deciding which firmware to boot.
02:12:51barrywardell_yes. good progress. i have a feeling the lcd is going to be much more difficult though
02:13:48 Quit midkay (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:14:04 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
02:15:42linuxstbBTW, I've just been looking a little at the BL_H10_20GC file, and it seems that gpio_f is used for output - the first thing the bootloader does is enable GPIO_F for output, and write the value 1 to it.
02:16:14linuxstbIt then puts the COP to sleep, and then switches into Thumb mode to run some thumb code. That's as far as I got...
02:16:25linuxstbDoes the bootloader use the LCD?
02:16:40barrywardell_yes, it displays a splash screen
02:16:52linuxstbThat could be a good way to work out the LCD then.
02:17:18linuxstbIs the screen 220x176?
02:17:31barrywardell_nope, 160x128
02:17:37barrywardell_the specs in the wiki are wrong
02:19:49barrywardell_gpio_f is set to e6 once the system starts up
02:22:10linuxstbSorry, pin 0 (if you number them 0-7) is the only one enabled for output. So I don't know what the others are.
02:23:38barrywardell_would it be possible to set it to 0 to see if the screen turns off. how do i achieve that in the code?
02:26:07linuxstbGPIOF_OUTPUT_VAL = 0; But that is the very first thing the bootloader does, so it's unlikely to be LCD related that soon.
02:27:40barrywardell_would it do any harm to the player to try it?
02:28:00linuxstbI don't know :)
02:29:39barrywardell_i was feeling daring, so I tried it
02:29:45barrywardell_it just shut the system off
02:29:47 Quit chendo (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:30:21 Quit JdG|uni ("CGI:IRC")
02:34:52linuxstbbarrywardell_: If the original firmware refuses to load from disk, you could try appending it to the end of your bootloader - so your new .mi4 file will contain both your code and the original firmware. Then in your bootloader (before you do any hardware initialisation at all), check for a keypress. If the key is pressed, then you can just memmove the original firmware to the start of DRAM (0x10000000) and pass execution to it - without
02:34:53linuxstb ever accessing any hardware.
02:36:25 Join chendo [0] (
02:37:59barrywardell_i think i understand. sounds like a good idea to try so i'll give it a shot
02:39:19 Quit akaias (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
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02:41:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:44:22linuxstbI'm just assuming the reason it isn't working is because it doesn't like the state of the hardware the Rockbox bootloader leaves it in. But maybe there's another reason.
02:44:30linuxstbBut time for bed. Goodnight.
02:45:13barrywardell_goodnight. thanks for all the help. it has made the difference between being totally in the dark and making some good progress
02:46:14BigMacjd you here
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03:48:25 Part safetydan
04:02:51BigMachey linux you here
04:06:19MikachuBigMac: you will probably have better luck talking to people if you use their full nicks
04:07:13BigMacyou still here
04:07:29BigMacah he went to bed nvm
04:07:54BigMacwould anyone else car to explain why anyone would want a mp4 metaparser
04:09:10 Quit XavierGr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:10:16 Quit dan_a (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:11:06merbananBigMac: to get the metadata ?
04:11:20BigMacwhat is metadata
04:11:47merbananlike the id3 tag
04:12:06merbanangeneral info
04:12:17BigMaceh i dont get it but thats ok
04:12:32BigMacisnt mp4 a video type...which rockbox cant play
04:12:51merbananno mp4 is a container
04:13:10merbananthat can contain video codecs etc
04:13:30BigMaci wish there was a p2p share that had mostly ogg/flac
04:13:43BigMaclimewire has near zero
04:14:45scorchethis isnt the channel to help with that =)
04:15:34BigMaci didnt ask for help i was just talking:-)
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04:25:59 Join Harry [0] (
04:26:07Harryi have a request
04:26:13Harryi need soemone to maeka wps file for my theme
04:26:18Harryfor a ipod video
04:26:22Harryill show how it looks
04:26:51midkaywhy can't you?
04:27:10Harryi anit that good
04:27:18Harryive spent so much time makeign the theme
04:27:26Harrymidkay u wanna see it
04:28:06Harry thats it soo far
04:28:06midkaynot in particular, but i'd like to see you make a WPS instead of asking someone else :)
04:28:20midkaythat's cool. now you just need a WPS, so make one. :)
04:28:39 Quit jsMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:28:40Harryi wish soem dev made a visualar patch
04:28:43Harryso mine would work
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04:29:20Harrymy theme inst done yet
04:29:25Harrybut thats how it look so far
04:29:53midkayso finish it, then do the WPS..
04:31:00Harrystop bloody telling me to do the wps
04:31:22midkaycalm down, and either do it yourself or don't post it up as "your theme" if you nag everyone else to do it for you.
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04:41:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:41:28biffherofeature freeze lifted! woo hoo!
05:50:08grimmanOld "news".
05:50:14 Join Harry [0] (
05:50:18grimmanBut good nevertheless. =)
05:51:01Harrywhos a dev in here
05:51:42Harryor whats rockbox dev channel
05:52:19BigMacim a dev
05:52:26grimmanPerhaps you can just ask whatever question you came here to ask and hope that someone with sufficient knowledge answers you. ;)
05:52:37Harryno grimman
05:52:45grimmanIt defies me.
05:52:46BigMache wants someone to make a .wps file for him
05:52:47grimmanPunish it!
05:52:50Harrymy question requirea dev
05:52:55Harrybigmac no
05:53:06Paul_The_NerdThis is the only channel to find Rockbox devs.
05:53:16Paul_The_NerdWhat is your question?
05:53:30Harrypaul dont worry
05:53:44Harryit for someone who can code
05:54:02BigMache wants someone to code a wps for him
05:54:03grimmanPaul_The_Nerd vs. Harry, 0-1
05:54:16Harrybigmac no u idoit
05:54:33Harryi already figuried how to make one
05:54:42BigMacits funny because you called me an idiot and spelled idiot wrong lmao
05:55:02BigMacso it proves whos the idiot here:-)
05:55:11Paul_The_NerdHarry: I can code. There is code of mine in Rockbox. Also, if you ask the question I may be able to tell you who to ask specifically, as I generally know who tends to work on what sort of things.
05:55:38Harrypaul i need a dev to code a visulillzer
05:55:47Harryjust a small one
05:55:57Harrynothing fancy
05:56:06Harryjust bars going up and down
05:56:24Harryso paul?
05:57:12Paul_The_NerdSee, that's not even something you should be asking here.
05:57:21Harryy not
05:57:25Paul_The_NerdA) The way you just said it makes it sound like you expect someone to just be willing to do it.
05:57:30Paul_The_NerdB) There's a FEATURE REQUEST page.
05:57:35BigMacpaul:is there an rockbox ipod emulator out so you can test stuff?
05:57:40Harryi know
05:57:45Harrybigmac yes
05:57:56Paul_The_NerdBigMac: There's a UI simulator. For testing WPS code, and general features, but nothing hardware specific. No emulators though.
05:58:11Harrycan u code it
05:58:24grimmanHarry: Bad question.
05:58:30Paul_The_NerdYes, I can.
05:58:33Paul_The_NerdNo, I won't.
05:58:47Paul_The_NerdWhy don't you do it?
05:58:47grimmanHaha, I knew it!
05:58:59Harryi dont know c
05:59:01Paul_The_NerdThere's about six-billion books on the C programming language.
05:59:04grimmanHarry: Let me tell you something about programmers; They're lazy.
05:59:05Paul_The_NerdAs well as online tutorials.
05:59:22Harryif i show my skin
05:59:30Harryu might wanna do it
05:59:35Paul_The_NerdHarry: You don't want it badly enough.
05:59:36BigMacpaul:will the ui simulator work for a 5g, and is it located on the site
05:59:39BigMacno he wont
05:59:49grimmanThis is getting creepier for every second that passes.
05:59:50BigMacits nothing spectacular man
05:59:52BigMacits nice
05:59:54Paul_The_NerdBigMac: It works for all of them. You can pick it as a compile option instead of a real version.
05:59:56Harryplus then other will code more themes
05:59:58BigMacbut its no jblackglass
06:00:07grimmanBigMac: Awesome theme. ^^
06:00:17Paul_The_NerdHarry: If you wanted it badly enough, you'd just go and do it yourself. So clearly, you don't desire the feature badly enough, and thus I have absolutely NO interest in it.
06:00:28grimmanQuestion in relation to it; will it work "properly" with newer builds?
06:00:28Paul_The_NerdI don't want the feature, it doesn't actually benefit most people, and you're being whiny about it.
06:00:31Paul_The_NerdIn essence "shoo"
06:00:37Harrywhy do u have to be like that
06:00:41BigMaci like my jblackglass mod though but not many others do, but who cares i like it and that is all that matters:-)
06:00:51Paul_The_NerdBecause you're sitting in here whining about something as if you actually want it, but won't even bother trying to do it yourself.
06:00:52grimmanThe 07-20 daily had messed up font locations and that's the only one I've tried.
06:01:17Harryif i try it would take me a year
06:01:25grimmanSo get crackin'.
06:01:25Paul_The_NerdNo, it wouldn't.
06:01:34Harrybut u maybe a couple or days or a week
06:01:38Paul_The_NerdAs I said, either do it yourself, or file a feature request.
06:01:52Paul_The_NerdBegging like this is a guaranteed way to ensure it won't happen, especially with something frivolous like this.
06:02:07BigMacpaul:do i have to compile the ui simulator or is there an exe on the site
06:02:25 Part Harry
06:03:01Paul_The_NerdBigMac: It's best to compile yourself, especially if you want to work on WPSes that require custom builds or patches. There are compiled simulators here that you can use though, if you're okay with vanilla rockbox:">
06:03:41BigMacyah compiling is far beyond me so i guess its out
06:03:47 Join harryy [0] (
06:04:41harryyhow do i reg my nick
06:04:49harryywhats the command
06:05:41Paul_The_NerdIt tells you what to type when you log in...
06:05:47Paul_The_NerdLike, when you connect.
06:05:56harryyit tells my how to identify
06:06:14 Nick harryy is now known as harry (
06:06:17Paul_The_NerdIs it saying that your nick is already registered then?
06:06:32Paul_The_NerdThen you can't register it...
06:06:56harryi reg it
06:07:02harrybut i forgot pass
06:07:36 Nick BigMac is now known as TheRealHarry (
06:07:36DBUGEnqueued KICK TheRealHarry
06:07:45TheRealHarryim the real harry lad
06:07:59Paul_The_Nerdharry: Well, you're going to have to figure out what your recovery options are, or just give up on it.
06:08:19 Quit lukaswayne9 ("Ex-Chat")
06:08:25 Nick TheRealHarry is now known as BigMac (
06:08:25DBUGEnqueued KICK BigMac
06:10:07BigMacwatch the swearing
06:10:14BigMacthere are children here
06:10:31Paul_The_NerdLanguage like that is rather unnecessary, and it'd be preferred if you avoided it.
06:10:42 Join antitheist [0] (
06:10:52harrycan i use abrevations
06:11:07Paul_The_NerdYou aren't sorry though. You laughed at BigMac.
06:11:30BigMacwhy abreviate it
06:11:36Paul_The_NerdIt's best if you use whole words and as close to proper English as you can. Many people here don't speak English natively, or use machine translation, so it becomes impossible for them to understand very quickly.
06:11:36BigMacjust don't do it
06:11:51BigMacpaul:are you esl
06:11:56Paul_The_NerdNo, I am not.
06:11:58harrybigmac how old r u
06:14:21grimmanI'm youngest then. *sigh*
06:14:22Paul_The_NerdThis is the official Rockbox support and development channel, so it's expected of users to behave in a reasonably responsible manner as much as they can.
06:14:42BigMacgrim how old are you
06:15:14BigMaclol sure
06:15:29BigMacfine im actually 8
06:15:42grimmanWant to marry me?
06:15:47BigMacomg i want a helio so bad
06:15:50BigMacok i guess
06:15:56CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 49 seconds at the last flood
06:15:56*grimman marries BigMac.
06:15:57BigMacbut i dont kiss on the first date
06:16:04BigMacim old fashioned like that
06:16:47grimmanLooks huge.
06:17:10grimmanI want a nano sized phone with; Colour screen. No camera. No MP3 support.
06:17:19 Quit Nibbier (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:17:20BigMaci want camera
06:17:24Paul_The_NerdWhy a colour screen?
06:17:26BigMacand internet suppot
06:17:36BigMaci like color screen
06:17:39grimmanPaul_The_Nerd: For some kickass themes, of course. ;D
06:17:45*Paul_The_Nerd sighs.
06:17:51 Join Nibbier [0] (
06:17:55grimmanYou sigh, old man.
06:18:03antitheistumm... anyway, back to rockbox. can anyone here help me with the co-ordinate system used in the themes?
06:18:19Paul_The_NerdIt's the number of pixels from the top left corner
06:18:23Paul_The_NerdX,Y, from 0,0
06:18:27BigMacim off to bed now
06:18:33grimmannn, hun.
06:18:43antitheistah i see
06:18:45antitheistthank you
06:19:01BigMaci hope my sarah calls me in the am
06:19:28BigMacshe went to that wretched mexico
06:19:57grimmanMmyes, mexico.
06:20:32BigMacits been a tough week without my female
06:20:54BigMaci believe the stones said it best with "i cant get no,, satisfactiooooon
06:21:13grimmanOr in the words of Norther.
06:21:17grimmanUnleash hell!
06:21:41BigMacim lonely and that makes me said
06:21:48BigMacwhat time is it in mexico
06:21:53grimmanWheren't you leaving?
06:21:55BigMacw/e im calling her anyway
06:22:03BigMacyah i am
06:22:26grimmanBuh bye.
06:22:43grimmanPaul_The_Nerd: Back to the theme topic; what's wrong with kickass themes?
06:23:03Paul_The_Nerdgrimman: It seems kinda silly to be willing to pay extra just for the ability to have the screen look different.
06:23:25grimman"Different" isn't quite the same as "how I want it to look". ;)
06:23:51grimmanAnd besides, every device nowadays has a colour screen. It just looks better.
06:24:02Paul_The_NerdIt's generally a LOT harder to read in direct sunlight.
06:24:17Paul_The_NerdLooks better is a very relative term.
06:24:21grimmanI suppose that depends on the colour settings.
06:24:34grimmanAnd of course. But all my stuff looks absolutely smashing.
06:24:45Paul_The_NerdIt depends on how close the pixels are together, and a lot of other things, rather than just color settings.
06:25:03grimmanNyah, not quite what I meant.
06:25:23grimmanSuppose theme A has proper fonts and such, easily readable... but with absolutely horrible colour settings.
06:25:30Paul_The_NerdThere are some color screens you can set to monochrome and they'll still be vastly less readable in direct sunlight than a monochrome screen.
06:25:55Paul_The_NerdEven with identical information being displayed.
06:26:11Paul_The_NerdBesides, color screens also tend to use more battery.
06:26:20Paul_The_NerdThey have a negative impact on phone use in general, if all you want is a good phone.
06:27:44Paul_The_NerdBut I generally prefer hardware that only has features that reinforce what I want to do with it. Unfortunately, it's often hard to find.
06:27:51grimmanI keep wondering why devices don't have an option to turn the display off if it's been inactive or locked for a set period of time.
06:30:15Paul_The_NerdBecause for some reason people feel the display is so integral that it must be always available.
06:30:26Paul_The_NerdWhy do people load 500 WPSes onto their MP3 player, and change themes constantly?
06:30:58 Quit harry (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:31:08grimmanDunno really.
06:31:16Paul_The_NerdBut they do.
06:31:23grimmanI have a bunch myself, but variations of the same one... for no reason really, I don't switch.
06:31:35Paul_The_NerdI made my own, and stuck with it, and that was that.
06:31:35grimman(the entire jBlackGlass package)
06:31:55Paul_The_NerdBut to a lot of people, what's on the screen is as important, or more, than what's coming out of the earphones.
06:32:59grimmanAll I need personally is the basic info... but since I have the option of using a good looking theme I damn well will.
06:33:50grimmanAnd for my part it doesn't even have to show constantly as long as I can easily bring the info up when I need it.
06:34:46 Join _Veseliq_ [0] (n=veseliq@
06:35:04JdGordonhey all
06:35:09JdGordongrr @ febs :p
06:35:19grimmanLo, JdGordon.
06:38:06JdGordondoes anyone in here have the x5 or any archos taget and has about 3min they can waste helping me out?
06:38:59scorcheJdGordon: what you need? (ajr v1
06:39:20JdGordon if you can ?
06:39:49JdGordonPaul_The_Nerd: can you remove Feb's response in that thread please, mine also i guess, as its completly useless
06:40:14Paul_The_NerdI'd rather not remove either response, actually
06:40:55Paul_The_NerdHis was a valid issue, and yours is a valid response. If I were to remove his, he'd never necessarily see your response, and that could just open up a bad can of worms.
06:41:31***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
06:44:14scorcheJdGordon: long menu?
06:44:30JdGordonPaul_The_Nerd: ok, fair enough
06:44:45JdGordonscorche: i dunno, if its not used dw about it
06:45:28 Join BloodySorcerer [0] (
06:46:48JdGordonSo, what you're saying, is that in the absolute most vague of terms the H10 port is ahead of the Sansa port? <- haha
06:46:56grimmanAh, it appears my idea has already been suggested. =)
06:48:47scorcheJdGordon: done
06:48:55JdGordonthanx alot
06:49:10scorcheanything else, lemme know
06:49:36scorcheoh...and WPS > File browser = on
06:50:05JdGordonyou forgot to say whch target in the msg :p
06:50:24 Quit rotator ("zzzzzzzzzz")
06:50:26scorchele sigh.
06:53:03JdGordonscorche: your gonna be around for a while ye? if i code this up can you test it?
06:53:20sharpeahey, i'll be around for the next six hours probably! hah...
06:54:55JdGordonsharpe: thats the recorder pad right?
06:55:07scorcheJdGordon: i dont have my cross-compiler set up
06:55:13scorchebut, give me a sec...
06:55:36grimmanHrrnpf... Doom is damned hard on the iPod.
06:55:37JdGordoni can compile it for ya, it will take a while to get it all going, no rush
06:55:44scorchethat will work
07:01:45JdGordonscorche: whats the diff between browsing/playing quickmenu: and display quickmenu?
07:03:57scorcheborwsing/playing has shuffle (left), repeat (right), and show files (down)
07:04:36scorchedisplay has scrollbar (left), status bar (right), upside down (down)
07:04:47JdGordonah, ok
07:05:14*JdGordon wonders why that screen isnt on iriver on the rec button
07:05:46scorcheas in quickmenus in general?
07:07:52Paul_The_NerdJdGordon: Because the record button could also simply be used for Record?'
07:08:04JdGordonthe display quickmenu, iriver has the other one
07:08:13JdGordonPaul_The_Nerd: not in the wps or tree...
07:08:20Paul_The_NerdYeah it could.
07:08:39Paul_The_NerdA lot of people would like the ability to instantly go to record and be ready to record at any screen.
07:08:43JdGordonscorche: Archos Recorder, Archos FM Recorder or Archos Recorder v2 ?
07:09:07Paul_The_NerdI think the second (display) quickscreen could be reached by a long hold of A-B or Menu from the first Quickscreen, on targets without a spare button.
07:09:11scorcheso the first choice =P
07:09:18JdGordonye, but that button does absolutly nothing now, (me talking rehtorically)...
07:10:36antitheisthey, would anyone here like to test my iPod nano theme before i put it on the forum?
07:11:07amiconnThe keypad of recorder v1, v2 and fm is identical. The mechanical configuration of the buttons differs a bit between v1 on one hand and v2/fm on the other, but the buttons itself are the same
07:11:31antitheistanyone with a nano?
07:11:35Paul_The_NerdJdGordon: But "it doesn't do anything now" because it hasn't been finalized. It's better to leave it doing nothing, then go straight to the final use, then change it around and have people complain because they got used to it.
07:11:47grimmanantitheist: It appears you're out of luck.
07:11:58Paul_The_Nerdantitheist: Why do you need someone with a Nano?
07:12:09JdGordonah ok
07:12:10antitheistit's a theme for a nano
07:12:15amiconnThe quickmenus were supposed to get replaced by something else for a looong time.
07:12:28amiconnOn iriver and ipod they're not even strictly quick...
07:12:29JdGordonamiconn: i was asking so i know which target to compile for :p
07:12:43Paul_The_Nerdantitheist: But why are you specifically looking for someone with a Nano? What do you want them to do?
07:12:55antitheistif anyone feels like it... go for it
07:13:45scorcheJdGordon: what exactly am i testing again? =P
07:14:05JdGordonif the buttons all "feel" right...
07:14:15Paul_The_Nerdantitheist: Any particular reason you didn't want to put it in the WPS Gallery?
07:14:16amiconnOn archos, it's possible to press F2 or F2, and _while holding it_, press left, right or down to trigger the action. When operated this way, the quickmenu goes away when releasing F2/F3
07:14:30antitheisti was about to
07:14:46JdGordonamiconn: cool.. we want that also :p
07:14:48amiconnThis way of operation is impossible on iriver at least
07:14:50antitheistthought i might be able to get some feedback to see whether or not it's worthwile
07:15:25Paul_The_NerdUsually people post pics of their themes in the forums where lots of people can see it, when seeking feedback before posting. ;)
07:15:43antitheistyeah well... this is quicker
07:16:04grimmanApparently not. ;P
07:16:07scorchenot if anyone steps up to try it
07:16:10Paul_The_NerdIn the sense of "Nobody's responding, so you're done."?
07:16:16amiconnOne idea was to replace the quickmenu with a user configurable menu, but nobody got around implementing that yet.
07:16:32grimmanamiconn: That would be great.
07:18:16amiconnThere are at least 2 problems to solve: (1) How to store the configuration? It has to be an efficient method. (2) What to do with the extra free button on archos recorders then (as there currently are two quickmenus)
07:18:19 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
07:18:53 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
07:20:41HulexQuick question.
07:21:13HulexIs there any way to avoid random "gaps" in my iPod while it's playing? rockbox somestimes acts all weird and the music skips for apparantly no reason
07:21:34HulexAlthough I do know I can't use one of the default skins since I guess it's too "busy"
07:24:50JdGordonleave it in the file/id3 browser instead of the wos
07:25:02*JdGordon is getting some very wierd compile errors :'(
07:26:36Hulexthe what :O
07:26:59Hulexoh the now playing screen?
07:27:16Paul_The_NerdWhile Playing Screen...
07:27:52Hulexyeah I did that like the big colorful fancy "rockbox" skin looks like impossible to play anything without it skipping
07:28:11Paul_The_NerdWell there's still a lot of work to be done on iPod.
07:28:16sharpeHulex: do you happen to use any peak meters or the EQ? :)
07:28:28sharpestandard "my ipod skips" questions. ahah...
07:28:31Hulexicatcher seems to work pretty well, but doesn't allow you to fast-forward through a song :<
07:28:41Hulexpeak meters?
07:28:46HulexHaven't even toughed those
07:28:53Paul_The_NerdThe WPS has nothing to do with the ability to fast forward...
07:29:11antitheistnow i KNOW that most of you don't care, but if u would like to see a screenshot of my theme please do
07:29:14Hulexon one of the skins, it won't allow me to fask forward
07:29:28sharpethat's not supposed to be possible...
07:29:43Hulexlet me try it again
07:31:12HulexPaul, what do you mean there's a lot of work to be done?
07:32:03Hulexokay nevermind, working now.
07:33:13HulexMaybe it was cause I was playing with it a lot at work, but the battery seemed to drain really quickly too
07:33:48sharpeyou mean, compared to the apple firmware?
07:33:52HulexAlso, completely unrelated to rockbox, I'm covered in insect bites *whine bitch moan*
07:34:00grimmanwiki dead?
07:34:13sharpeyeah. that's expected... the shorter battery life...
07:34:26sharpewiki works fine for me.
07:34:38HulexI assume it spins up the harddrive more?
07:34:54grimmannm, works again now.
07:34:58grimmanGot server error.
07:36:06Paul_The_NerdWhy would you assume it spins up the disk more?
07:36:17HulexI dunno
07:36:23HulexThe gapless playback
07:36:34HulexOr maybe it has to work harder somehow
07:39:31JdGordonscorche: can i send you a rockbox.ucl to play with?
07:42:39 Quit juxtap (Nick collision from services.)
07:42:45 Join juxtap [0] (
07:43:30grimmanIs there anywhere I can find a list of WPS(?) tags?
07:43:43scorcheJdGordon: mind just sending me a .ajz so i can run it from rolo?
07:43:47grimmanA complete list that is... and the data they hold.
07:43:50scorchegrimman: did you search the wiki?
07:44:08grimmanscorche: The closest thing I could find was the beginners guide to WPS creation.
07:44:09JdGordonscorche: ok, didnt know there was a diff..
07:44:22grimmanWhich contains a few tags.
07:45:12JdGordonscorche:"> <- go into the file browser and the menus and let me know if it all woks as expected please
07:45:17scorchegrimman: search harder next time ;)
07:45:39HulexSo uh
07:45:44grimmanMmyes, next time I will search till I drop.
07:46:00HulexSay if my current build is kinda buggy and is the latest I got on the page. the main one
07:46:10HulexDo you reccomend I try out a daily build or too risky?
07:46:31sharpethe daily builds are just cvs builds created once a day...
07:46:42 Join clifford [0] (
07:46:47scorchegrimman: even a search in the wiki for "wps" includes that page
07:47:01grimmanscorche: I searched for 'tags' though.
07:47:04Paul_The_NerdHulex: Umm... dailys are older than CVS builds most of the time...
07:47:05grimmanSo... no results for me. ;)
07:47:10Paul_The_NerdHulex: So, latest from what page?
07:47:13Hulexoh wait nevermind already did
07:47:36Hulexdownloaded a daily from the main download page at the bottom
07:48:23amiconnJdGordon: The ajbrec.ajz/archos.mod files are the archos equivalent of rockbox.iriver/rockbox.ipod. The name is that 'strange' because we couldn't choose freely. The archos firmware itself uses those namen and loads updates from disk. That's where rockbox 'hooks' in, i.e. we don't need a special bootloader on archos.
07:48:56JdGordonok, cool
07:49:01amiconnArchos probably implemented it this way because the early archoses had a ROM which isn't in-circuit flashable
07:49:37scorcheJdGordon: first task...modify the contrast =P
07:49:43amiconnThe .ucl files are for flashing rockbox (after flashing a different ROM image once)
07:50:11JdGordonscorche: ? i changed nothing but the button code, howd your contarst get fiddled with?
07:50:11amiconn...on archoses which allow it, i.e. some players, most v1s, and all v2/fm and Ondios
07:50:21scorcheJdGordon: no clue...
07:50:39amiconnJdGordon: Did you update cvs before compiling?
07:50:59JdGordonits yesterdays cvs
07:51:03amiconnRaeNye broke the default contrast 3 (?) days ago, fixed yesterday by Linus and me
07:51:15JdGordonah ok
07:51:33JdGordonmaybe scorche was stil using the older build? i dunno :p
07:51:51scorcheJdGordon: pushing F1 while in menu will also return you to the WPS
07:53:28*amiconn thinks that the menu button, when pressed within a menu, should immediately leave the whole menu tree
07:53:56JdGordonamiconn: im starting to think about giving up with this, there isnt enough genericity in the taregts for this tow ork properly :'(
07:53:59*JdGordon agrees
07:54:00amiconnToday, Left and the menu button are redundant
07:55:08scorcheJdGordon: hmmm...odd...when i pause music, it pauses immediately like it should in the headphones, however, the wps lags behind it (also follows when resuming)
07:55:12sharpewhat about yesterday? :)
07:55:14scorchethis is with default wps fyi
07:55:51JdGordonscorche: unless your pausing it from the tree then its not my changes, i havnt touched the wps button code
07:56:00 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
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07:56:09 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
07:56:12*scorche shrugs
07:57:04amiconnThe wps always lags a bit.
07:57:12amiconn...on all targets
07:57:17*scorche wonders why he hasnt noticed beforew
07:57:45 Join Gnelik [0] (n=Gnelik@
07:58:02sharpegood morning to you.
07:58:17 Join Harry [0] (
07:58:37Harryquick ?
07:58:48scorcheJdGordon: besides menu, it all seems good
07:58:57 Quit antitheist (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:58:58JdGordonok, great, thanks
07:59:03 Quit ttyfscker ("Leaving")
07:59:04Harryon a wps can i put the time and battery
07:59:14Harryjd u make theme?
07:59:24JdGordonno, and yes, u can
08:00:14Harrywho heres made a theme
08:01:40midkayHarry: check CustomWPS, you can do a lot more than time and battery. it has a list of all possible tags..
08:01:58 Quit Harry (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08:02:06sharpemidkay: ahah. :)
08:02:28sharpehow's life?
08:02:50scorchebusy for him atm
08:03:05scorchei am being mister slave driver
08:03:09 Quit sando ("blargh")
08:03:19scorchemidkay: stop being lazy! on the map!
08:03:27*scorche cracks the whip
08:03:31cliffordcrap, I hate itunes :(
08:03:53sharpewhy's that? :)
08:03:58grimmanJoin the club.
08:03:58scorcheclifford: we dont use itunes here...
08:04:03HulexI think most box rockers hate itunes haha
08:04:20grimmanMichael Sembello - Maniac. Best theme editing song ever. ;P
08:04:27cliffordit tries to be "uhh smart" but crap it's so damn annoying
08:04:42grimman<< Doing some dirty updating of the jBlackGlass theme. So it doesn't require patching. ;)
08:05:15 Part Paul_The_Nerd
08:05:18sharpe"You're trying to install rockbox on your ipod and need it working as just a disk? I don't think you so you little ungrateful..."
08:05:28sharpewow. forget the first 'you'
08:05:29cliffordit's a joke, it takes 2 minutes with 40 seconds to open itunes in my laptop (p3 1.12 or something like thathehehe)
08:05:45grimmanclifford: So get Winamp...
08:06:11cliffordhahahahah yes, I will have to avoid itunes
08:06:20grimmanI have a reverse engineered version of the latest release that's quite light.
08:06:38cliffordgrimman> itunes?
08:06:59cliffordgrimman> so, winamp?
08:07:09cliffordhahaha sorry, I tend to be dumb
08:07:25grimmanNo iPod support though.
08:07:31grimmanBut that's not necessary with Rockbox.
08:07:46grimman"She's a maniaaac, maaaaaaniac lalala"
08:07:54midkayscorche: i am.
08:08:00midkaytesting some dusk/dawn lighting.
08:08:03grimmanThis is the fifth or sixth time that track repeats.
08:08:05cliffordgrimman> great song
08:08:15grimmanclifford: So far, yes.
08:09:18HulexI'm still miffed about having to move and re-sort all my music and stuffs
08:09:27cliffordI'm trying to fix a tagcache bug with my ipod, if I can, I will uninstall itunes gladly
08:09:29sharpeHulex: TagCache?
08:09:31HulexI need to spend a couple of days to "rockboxify" my iPod
08:09:46HulexWell does that work with iTunes uploaded music?
08:09:53grimmanHulex: It's just a matter of mounting the iPod and copying your music to it.
08:10:04Hulexgrimman, I know
08:10:09sharpeit indexes them based on their tag data. not their filename...
08:10:13grimmanAnd since they're so large... just copy it all. ;D
08:10:23HulexBut my 20gig is filled with 20gigs of music uploaded and sorted into playlists and stuff via itunes
08:10:35grimmanThat's quite something.
08:10:35Hulexsharpe's method sounds better :O
08:10:45HulexMy entire music collection is like
08:10:48grimmanI think I've filled some 20 gigs of mine too.
08:10:58grimman5 gigs of music, 15 gigs of TV series. ;P
08:10:59Hulex27 gigs and growing
08:11:14HulexI am an audiophile
08:11:32HulexBut I have a good majority of stuff on there I listen to rarely
08:11:35HulexAnd sometimes NEVER
08:11:36scorchewhat does that say about one who has around 100 gigs of music?
08:11:40grimmanI have 36 gigs... but not just stuff I would listen to myself.
08:11:42grimmanI'm a packrat. ;D
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08:12:16cliffordgrimman> thanks for that winamp (Y)
08:12:21Hulexgrimman, same
08:12:27sharpe19.1/76.6 gigs of a harddrive of mine are free...
08:12:39grimmansharpe: You lucky sod.
08:12:58grimmanI have something like 2 gigs / ~500 gigs.
08:13:03Hulexbelieve me if I had more harddrive space on my apple craptop here I would download like 20 more CDs
08:13:04sharpethen 7.8/25 gigs free on another...
08:13:21Hulexcurrently 9.96 available but that fluctuates wildly
08:13:27HulexI torrent PS2 games :x
08:13:41HulexAnd my external HDD needs to be reformatted
08:13:54scorche3.64 gigs free out of about a terabyte...
08:13:56scorchei need more space
08:14:05HulexThe first rule of Sows is that we do not talk about Sows.
08:14:31HulexI have a measly 80 gigs here ;_;
08:14:33 Quit jimmah ("Leaving")
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08:15:08sharpei have things backed up on dvds i still have on one of my harddrives...
08:15:25scorcheare we including dvds now too? =P
08:15:41grimmanI suck btw.
08:15:44sharpenope, those are just a few dvds.
08:16:08scorcheoh....i wanted to add another terabyte on to that =(
08:16:23grimmanHad the chance to buy a brand new 400 gig external USB 2.0 drive for $200.
08:16:24HulexYeah I should back stuff onto DVD
08:16:28HulexI have a surplus of them
08:16:29sharpei need to move some things to dvds...
08:16:29grimmanAnd I didn't.
08:16:30cliffordcrap... I can barely hit 40gb and I'm getting frustrated
08:17:26sharpeclifford: jealous of our wastefulness? :)
08:17:28*scorche scrolls up to figure out where the deviation started
08:17:59JdGordononce i have rockbox installed onto an eyepod, would i be able to use the same hdd with an ipod and a h300 without stuffing around when i want to swap?
08:19:00scorcheJdGordon: afaik, no...
08:19:12scorchedifferences in partition tables
08:19:21JdGordonoh poo :p
08:19:25Hulexhow do I like reindex my ipod or watever?
08:19:35sharpehave you ever used tagcache before?
08:19:56HulexI have no idea. I played around with that setting on the ipod like a few times
08:20:00Hulexi mean rockbox
08:20:01scorcheJdGordon: also, ipods are notoriously difficult to open, so i am not sure how well that would work anyway
08:20:16HulexGet an exacto knife
08:20:30HulexI opened up my 2G iPod once just out of curiosity when it finally died
08:20:41sharpemain menu -> general settings -> file view -> tagcache -> initialize now
08:20:52HulexI miss that thing :< even when it failed as a music player, it made a pretty handy 10gig hard drive
08:21:14Hulexsharpe that will like automatically find all my musics?
08:21:45sharpei have a lot of things dealing with halo 2 maps...
08:21:53sharpeon one of my hard drives...
08:22:16Hulexokay and stupid question how long does it take?
08:22:20scorchehalo maps...HA!
08:22:21Hulexand when will I know when it's done?
08:22:40scorcheHulex: when the disk stops accessing
08:23:00HulexI think it's done? o.o
08:23:03HulexCan't be
08:23:14sharpeyou can view it's progress in main menu -> info -> debug -> view tagcache info
08:23:43Hulexlooks like it did uh
08:23:53sharpewhat does it say?
08:24:01Hulexprogress -1%
08:24:04Hulex0 entries
08:24:11HulexInitialized: yes
08:24:14Slashericlifford: hmm, what kind of bug do you have with tagcache?
08:24:21HulexDB ready no ram cache no
08:24:24scorche-1% is a bug
08:24:40sharpescorche: it's not really a bug, it's because dircache isn't enabled...
08:25:10sharpeHulex: try going to the update tagcache option in the menus...
08:25:20*scorche stops devoting 1/8th of his mind here and devotes all of it to the movie
08:25:28sharpeah, what movie?
08:25:44sharpegreat movie.
08:25:50Hulexupdate now?
08:25:52scorcheas in noneyabusiness
08:26:21sharpescorche: yes, i know. hence the sarcastic "great movie."
08:26:24Hulexwhen I click it/go forward literally nothing happens
08:26:45grimmanPorn, most likely.
08:27:21 Quit grimman (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08:28:26HulexI BROKE IT
08:28:32sharpei doubt it
08:28:42 Join grimman [0] (
08:28:46Hulexbut yeah update now doesn't do anything
08:29:11Hulexwhat about import/export modifications?
08:29:57sharpeso it still says 0 entries in the info?
08:30:33sharpehooray, cygwin takes up just over a gigabyte.
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08:31:16sharpetry restarting.
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08:40:16Hulex5084 entries
08:40:18HulexLooks like it worked
08:41:13 Join Gnelik [0] (n=gnelik@
08:41:20Hulexnow what D:
08:41:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:42:52sharpegenerally restarting is what most do...
08:44:13 Quit FOAD (Remote closed the connection)
08:45:55Hulexagain with the restarting
08:46:00Hulexmy ipod is windows lol
08:46:18Hulexcommiting tagcache 10 of...13? o.o
08:46:50Hulexare there more steps involved here?
08:47:24sharpejust to set the file view
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08:48:40Hulexto what
08:48:42HulexI'm slow sorry
08:48:52sharpeID3 Database
08:50:28sharpehold menu, and a menu should pop up...
08:51:11Jungti1234you can open bmp file in rockbox?
08:51:47sharpeironically enough i don't believe there is a viewer plugin for it, but rockbox does handle bmps for backdrops and such.
08:52:49Jungti1234I can open bmp file using Rock Paint.
08:52:58sharpeoh, i forgot about rockpaint.
08:53:16Jungti1234but, I can't open with thing which click it.
08:53:28Hulexshape thank yous :O
08:53:34Jungti1234Must use 'Open with ....'.
08:53:46HulexNow I just gotta figure out a way to create/import my iPod playlists
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08:53:54Jungti1234It's uncomfortable.
08:54:04sharpeah. there's not an entry for it in the viewers file...
08:54:30Jungti1234Of course, it's modified.
08:54:45Jungti1234It's added already.
08:54:58Jungti1234But, it doesn't work.
08:55:02sharpesounds like a problem then.
08:55:12Jungti1234there seems to be some problem.....
08:55:17 Join Paul_The_Nerd [0] (
08:55:42Jungti1234Do you understand viewers.config?
08:56:09Jungti1234Can you find its problem?
08:56:16sharpeah... i suppose...
08:56:49Jungti1234bmp,rocks/rockpaint, 01 10 01 10 01 10
08:56:59 Join FOAD [0] (
08:57:08sharpeextension, viewer location, icon
08:57:11sharpeis the format.
08:57:45Jungti1234yes I know
08:58:03Jungti1234I know it... but
08:58:11Jungti1234It didn't works.
08:58:37Jungti1234don't open bmp file.
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08:59:00Paul_The_NerdDoes it show up in the "Open With" menu?
08:59:44sharpeindeed it does, i can confirm...
08:59:50Jungti1234nono, It show up there.
09:00:09Jungti1234[15:53:20] <Jungti1234> but, I can't open with thing which click it.
09:00:12HulexGod this is so awesome now :O
09:01:02hardeepi beg to differ, it was always awesome
09:01:27HulexIt wasn't awesome without music
09:01:40HulexAnd omg the backlight comes on when it prepares for the next track~
09:03:12HulexNow I gotta tweak some of my mp3s from certain albums that have some songs fade into each other
09:03:49 Quit Gnelik (Remote closed the connection)
09:03:51Paul_The_NerdCan viewers.config set a default if Rockbox recognizes the filetype outside of it?
09:04:04Paul_The_NerdFor example, could one set a default action for .wav to be "convert to MP3" by accident?
09:04:22Paul_The_NerdYou may notice that they're in there, and yet wavs still play, so I would assume not.
09:04:45Paul_The_NerdSo maybe it can't have a default action since it's a filetype recognized in firmware.
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09:05:03Jungti1234difficult english....
09:05:14Hulexokay sharpe
09:05:22HulexI don't want to bug you like all night
09:05:31sharpeeh, it's okay, i've got three more hours to kill.
09:05:49HulexIs there something somewhere I can read that will tell me how to create playlists or import my playlists from my default ipod firmware?
09:06:12sharpeoooh. from the apple firmware...
09:06:20sharpehighly doubt it.
09:06:43HulexFair enough.
09:06:50Jungti1234is it mean to me?
09:06:53HulexManually making/remaking playlists is kinda fun in a way
09:07:05HulexHow do I do it the normal way then?
09:07:21sharpeJungti1234: he's saying it's probably because the firmware's action of that file type takes precedence over viewers.config.
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09:07:54Jungti1234I can't understand...
09:08:08midkaysharpe: you need to be simpler..
09:08:21Jungti1234Rock Paint support bmp viewer
09:08:24midkayJungti1234: Rockbox uses playlists directly..
09:08:31midkayJungti1234: i believe so.
09:09:07Jungti1234Its other function is viewer.
09:09:35Jungti1234bmp file can't play.
09:09:36Paul_The_NerdJungti1234: The default function is "do nothing"
09:09:44Paul_The_NerdThis is in the firmware, not viewers.config.
09:10:00Paul_The_NerdBecause you can "Set as Backdrop" so the firmware must recognize and have control.
09:10:28HulexOkay now an easy question
09:10:32HulexWhen something is playing
09:10:38HulexHow do I go back to my ID3 list?
09:10:47Hulexsince menu brings up options
09:10:56Paul_The_NerdWhile in WPS, just tap Select.
09:11:06Jungti1234Then, do I change it?
09:11:14Paul_The_NerdJungti1234: You cannot right now
09:11:30Jungti1234Because I don't know C?
09:11:31Paul_The_NerdHulex: That, and other useful tidbits can be found within the manual and FAQ that many have generously contributed to.
09:11:41Paul_The_NerdJungti1234: Pretty much.
09:11:54Jungti1234haha, what's mean 'Pretty'
09:12:17Paul_The_NerdJungti1234: It's a phrase meaning "What you said means the same thing as what was said before"
09:12:55Jungti1234I know its meaning is 'beauty'.
09:13:14sharpehooray for different contexts
09:14:00Paul_The_NerdJungti1234: The word "pretty" on its own means beauty, yes, but the phrase "pretty much" usually means "What you said is mostly correct" or "What you said is the same as what I tried to say"
09:14:28Jungti1234english is difficult....
09:14:52Paul_The_NerdIt is unfortunate.
09:15:05Jungti1234why.. hehe :)
09:15:30Jungti1234I make WPS using my H300.
09:16:06Jungti1234Use text editer and rock paint...
09:17:49Jungti1234So, I feel much discomfort.
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09:22:07excitatoryJungti1234: yes, english is quite the joke.
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09:32:47GnelikLinusN: Do you work on Sansa port or Badger only do?
09:33:14LinusNonly bagder atm
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09:38:32JdGordonmorning LinusN, can i bug you for a bit?
09:39:14Jungti1234in, out, in, out, in, out....
09:40:04LinusNJungti1234: hehe, i'm reconfiguring my irc client
09:40:09LinusNJdGordon: bug me
09:41:13JdGordondo you tihnk we can do the wps keys in a seperate button list? because the buttons there really dont mesh well between the targets
09:42:09JdGordonalso, iv dont the action stuff for the colour picker screen which used the ipod slider for left/right instead of updown and its not complicated at all, if you want to see the diff
09:42:49LinusNJdGordon: so the wps would use its own action list?
09:43:23JdGordonye, well actually im still not sure, i need someone elses head thinking about it also :D
09:43:45JdGordoni mean, the main problem is the action names really dont fit the wps
09:44:01JdGordonand i guess its such a large part it would be ok?
09:44:14LinusNwell, shouldn't there be actions like ACTION_NEXT_TRACK etc?"> shows how to use non standard keys
09:45:24JdGordonyes, but its either done like #define ACTION_NEXT_TRACK ACTION_RIGHT_OK or redefined in a new list, i tinhk the 2nd is better tho
09:46:51JdGordona more generic version of right..
09:47:33*JdGordon thinks the directions should be named, even if not all targets have them
09:48:11LinusNbut shouldn't ACTION_OK be a separate action?
09:48:48JdGordoni guess its like a "soft" OK, on iriver there is 3 different OK actions
09:49:12JdGordonthe right arrow being the soft one, select and on being more "forced" i guess.. i cant tihnk of a better word
09:49:48LinusNmaybe we should take a step back and thing again about what problems we want to solve here
09:50:26 Quit Gnelik (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:50:35LinusNone problem is the various _PRE crappo stuff
09:50:59LinusNanother is the various remote control button maps
09:51:34LinusNand then we have the huge #ifdef lumps in each file for the button mapping
09:51:57LinusNdid i forget anything?
09:52:07JdGordonno, i dont think so
09:52:42LinusNi think we need to define exactly what an "action" is here
09:52:57JdGordonthis solves the remote by having a seperate list for each remote and having a global variable which can be set at runtime for which remote is being used, so thats fine
09:53:39LinusNbut won't we have to duplicate the entire default action list then?
09:54:03JdGordononly the buttons that are different
09:54:26LinusNi don't understand
09:54:39JdGordonyou'd have 4 lists for remotes, the default one, then 1 for each that changes the defualt keys.
09:55:27JdGordondw about that for the time being, thats the eaisest part once we have _something_ implemented...
09:55:29LinusNso there are actually two default action lists, one for the remote and one for the main unit?
09:55:48JdGordonwell.. either way :p
09:56:36LinusNso, what is an "action" in your concept?
09:57:31JdGordonI've tryed to make them what the code throughout the core actually does with the buttons.
09:58:00 Quit clifford (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:58:13JdGordonso almost all the button loops have a _EXIT define which ive turned into an action, most often this is the off button
09:58:56LinusNiirc, when we discussed this concept at devcon, we imagined actions like NEXT_TRACK, CANCEL, PLAY etc
09:59:22Bg3rLinusN: but the actions are different in the different screen contexts ...
09:59:25JdGordonthe problem with that is the english doesnt fit. why would you check for NEXT_TRACK in the menu context?
09:59:41LinusNyes, i see the problem
09:59:48JdGordonthe easy way is to just #define NEXT_TRACK ACTION_RIGHT
10:00:18Bg3ri think it'll be more apropriate to have a new action list for the WPS
10:01:03JdGordonit would also make things easier, becuase in the menu it doesnt need to wait for the release before triggering a direction like it does in the wps
10:01:04LinusNthe idea is of course to have as few special cases in the code as possible
10:01:20JdGordonLinusN: 2 cases, WPS and everywhere else
10:01:23hardeepwhy would the menu have a NEXT_TRACK action?
10:01:35hardeepshouldn't we decouple actions from buttons?
10:01:37JdGordonhardeep: thats what im saying, it wouldnt
10:01:53hardeepJdGordon: i don't understand the problem you're describing though
10:01:59hardeephow would it ever be an option in the menu?
10:02:05Bg3rLinusN: really, we can't know what the manufacturers of the next rockbox target will chose for volume up
10:02:06LinusNso how do we decouple actions from buttons in a generic way?
10:02:08Bg3r(for example)
10:02:11Bg3rwhat key
10:02:34hardeepso, wps context has a NEXT_TRACK action but tree, menu etc. doesn't
10:02:46JdGordonmy idea only allows each button combo to return one value, so either NEXT_TRACK and ACTION_RIGHT are given the same value, or you have to check for NEXT_TRACK in the menu which makes it difficult to read
10:02:46LinusNor are we talking about generic buttons instead of "actions"
10:03:19hardeepbut RIGHT isn't an "action", it's a button pressed to invoke an action
10:03:45LinusNback to my original question, what exactly is an "action"?
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10:04:31Bg3rhardeep: RIGHT can be an action in the plugins
10:04:35hardeepimo, an action should be the commands available in a particular context
10:04:45 Join safetydan [0] (
10:04:52hardeeplike you said earier, NEXT, PLAY, CANCEL etc.
10:04:55JdGordonhardeep: while keeping them generic as possible.. you cant win everywhere.. (unfortunatly)
10:05:13hardeepJdGordon: i'm not saying make them generic... they should be specific to a context
10:05:23hardeepthere are some actions that span contexts
10:05:30hardeepbut most will be specific
10:05:35Bg3rbut in fact we don't have so many contexts
10:05:42LinusNok, so each screen would define the action list, much like we do today?
10:05:49JdGordonLinusN: you did forget 1 thing we want to fix, having to define buttons everywhere
10:06:01hardeepbtw, one extra "requirement" i'd like to propose is the possibility of user defined button mappings
10:06:06LinusNJdGordon: yes, but maybe we can't solve that
10:06:11JdGordonwe want to get rid of as many contexts as possible
10:06:32LinusNhardeep: yes, we might want to make that possible
10:06:54Bg3rhardeep: afaics the JdGordon's idea allows this
10:07:00JdGordonit does
10:07:13hardeepnot if we define an ACTION_RIGHT
10:07:20hardeepunless it's referring to a movement, not a button"> shows the ipod keys being redefined for that one screen
10:08:50LinusNone goal of this exercise is to try to centralize the button mapping
10:09:22LinusNi.e not have to edit 17 files with button maps when we add a new target
10:10:07LinusNi guess this is where the default action list comes in
10:10:07JdGordonthat is addressed by my code 99%, i added the recorder keypad and it worked pretty much as soon as the list was added
10:10:53JdGordonthe question is is seperating the wps list from the rest acceptable?
10:11:16LinusNJdGordon: the plugins are the worst culprits when it comes to key mapping
10:11:35JdGordoni agree
10:11:55LinusNJdGordon: i believe the wps, the fm screen and the recording screen will have separate maps
10:12:03JdGordonbut this should move easily to the plugins, so i dont tihnk it will be a problem
10:12:31JdGordonso 4 different default lists then? (*2 for targets with remote?)
10:13:35JdGordon@ 12bytes / item.. its all gonna add up pretty quicky...
10:15:10JdGordonmaybe then the best thing is to cheat and redefine some values to give them better names for the wps/fm/rec contexts?
10:15:29LinusNthat's not cheating imo
10:15:49LinusNeach action should have a name that fits the context
10:16:32LinusNin my world, there would be a huge list of possible actions
10:17:15LinusNand the action list just tells which button combo triggers which action
10:17:49JdGordonhows this look? (the action list enum)
10:17:51JdGordon/* directions */
10:17:51JdGordon ACTION_UP_PREV,
10:17:51DBUGEnqueued KICK JdGordon
10:17:51JdGordon ACTION_DOWN_NEXT,
10:18:20LinusNi'd rather have separate values for every action
10:19:11JdGordonthen we need a better way to return a value. maybe we limit the values to 0-511 and then we can store 4 values for 4 different contexts in the one int?
10:19:15Bg3rwhy "ACTION_UP_PREV" ?
10:19:45LinusNmy idea is to have separate lists for each context
10:20:08LinusNwith each action having a unique value
10:20:12JdGordonI like that also, but that will hit the ram usage..
10:20:48JdGordonisnt the array loaded into ram?
10:20:52LinusNeach action list would only contain the actions for that context
10:22:03JdGordonwont they need to be static struct blaa = {..}; and isnt that loaded into ram anyway?
10:22:37LinusNyes, but why would the ram usage be higher because the action id's are unique?
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10:24:14JdGordonbecuase all the buttons need to be redefined...
10:24:25LinusNah, yes
10:24:44JdGordonhow about this? #define RETVAL(s,w,f,r) ((s&0xff000000)&(w&0x00ff0000)&(f&0x0000ff00)&(r&0x000000ff)) and then you pass the context to the functoin and it will return the code for that combo for that context?
10:24:59JdGordons == standard, w = wps, f = fm, r = rec
10:25:27LinusNthat would be hard to extend with new contexts
10:26:11LinusNok, so what we have now is a mechanism that at least cleans up the _PRE mess
10:26:36JdGordonand centralises most button mapping
10:26:54JdGordonand removes 99% of the #ifdefs in button loops
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10:27:43LinusNcan i see the entire patch again?
10:27:52JdGordonsure, 1 min
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10:28:39LinusNi'm thinking about the ACTION_UP_PREV action in your color slider example
10:29:15LinusNcan we be sure that UP and PREV are the same action on all targets?
10:29:17JdGordonactually, why are we worrying about mem usage? 12b* lets say 100 buttons over the whole code? even with 4 contexts.. thats still less than 2kb "wasted"
10:29:39JdGordonwe cant be sure about anything, but its easy to fix if they arnt
10:29:45 Quit mikearthur (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
10:29:48LinusNi'm more worried about looping through huge lists for every button press'
10:30:24sharpelists are always fun.">
10:31:25JdGordonLinusN: ye, that is bad, but if the 100 buttons are split then its only 25 in each list, which is much nicer
10:31:40JdGordonand if its the same as the prev button then it jumps to that item anyway
10:31:45 Quit tvelocity (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable))
10:32:12JdGordonthere is some comments in that patch now btw :)
10:34:26LinusNlet's go back to ACTION_UP_PREV
10:34:40LinusNwhat exactly is that action supposed to mean?
10:35:21LinusNis it the action to use when moving the cursor in a menu?
10:35:53LinusNok, so on the archos player, it would be defined as:
10:36:49LinusNsince there are no UP/DOWN buttons on the player
10:37:05JdGordonumm.. hmm
10:37:37JdGordondamn, the player is severly short of buttons :p
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10:38:02hardeepwhat's wrong with calling it ACTION_MENU_PREV ?
10:38:18LinusNhardeep: that's where i am going :-)
10:38:45LinusNmy idea is having unique action id's for all actions
10:38:51man_in_shack << wheee
10:38:54hardeepLinusN: the only negative to the idea you proposed (which i wholeheartedly agree with btw) is memory, which doesn't seem all that significant
10:39:08JdGordonthat means then that on targets like h300 you lwill lose the multiple options for some actions (going into a menu for example)
10:39:29hardeepJdGordon: how so?
10:39:47LinusNyou just define several button combos that trigger the same action
10:40:07CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
10:40:07*JdGordon is a dill, yes your 100% correct
10:41:36JdGordonlosing the direction acions would mean more places would be adding their own keys tho, maybe its better to treat the player as a special case where the default actions are no good?
10:41:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:42:13hardeepwhat's wrong with adding their own keys?
10:42:27JdGordonwe want to centralize the key defines
10:43:02JdGordonwe either lose that or bring back #ifdefs :'(
10:43:06LinusNi'm beginning to think that we won't be able to centralize it very well
10:43:07hardeepwe can still centralize it
10:43:21*JdGordon is gonna have a crack at doing the player keys
10:43:31JdGordonshould you guys be working or something? :D
10:43:44hardeepi don't understand why this would prevent centralization
10:43:58hardeepit would prevent common actions across contexts, but we can still centralize where all actions are defined
10:44:19 Quit aliask ("Time to try to convert to linux for the nth time.")
10:44:28LinusNhardeep: i guess you mean having all actions for all contexts in one file?
10:44:38hardeepLinusN: yes
10:44:42LinusNas one list per context
10:44:51LinusNi'm with you
10:45:17LinusNthen there is only one thing left to solve, and that is the plugins
10:45:35JdGordonhow are plugins a problem?
10:45:36LinusNeach plugin is a context of its own
10:45:47JdGordonthey could use the standard context or make their own
10:45:48hardeepit would have to be, but not in our central list
10:46:00hardeepit could be defined in the plugin itself
10:46:19LinusNso each plugin would still have to be edited when we add a new target
10:46:31JdGordonnot nescacerily
10:46:31linuxstbWe could have the contexts in the plugin lib - and a new plugin would either choose an existing one from there, or add a new one.
10:46:52JdGordonwhy couldnt the plugins use the standard context?
10:47:03hardeepdepends on the plugin
10:47:11hardeepgames are usually non-standard for instance
10:47:12JdGordonwith some #defininng to make thing snnicer to the coder
10:47:30linuxstbJdGordon: Yes, they could also choose a standard context if that's appropriate.
10:47:33JdGordonlinuxstb makes a good point, we can have a plugin context in the libs for them
10:48:15linuxstbOr have a "base context", that they extend. e.g. games which need four directions of movement, plus "action" could use a context for that, etc.
10:49:42JdGordonso, we get rid of the left/right actions because they are just duplicating other actions?
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10:51:04linuxstbI agree with hardeep that "left/right" are rarely actions - unless you're moving something around the screen.
10:51:28Bg3rbut they are suitable for the plugins
10:51:48linuxstbSome plugins, yes - those are the cases where you are actually moving something around the screen.
10:52:53hardeepi have a feeling that going through the plugins will show that there are only a handful of different actions being used
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10:53:14JdGordonye, plugins wont cause much of a problem
10:53:31hardeepso we could even define the 3-4 different contexts inside the pluglin lib and let those be used
10:53:48hardeepas linuxstb suggested... =)
10:54:09hardeepi can't think of any offhand that do anything really funky
10:54:40hardeepmaybe doom/rockboy
10:54:45linuxstbWhat about plugins that use button_status() instead of the button events?
10:55:15linuxstbi.e. doom/rockboy :)
10:55:36linuxstbAnd I think pacbox does as well. Because they're emulating other button hardware.
10:55:38*JdGordon never intended of removing the lowlevel button stuff, so its still there if they need it
10:56:12aliaskYeah, I certainly think there should still be the option to be specific about what buttons to use.
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10:58:18LinusNi don't think we can solve all problems with button mapping in the plugins
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10:58:31LinusNi'm happy if we solve 70% of them
10:58:47LinusNbtw, many plugins have their own menus
10:59:02hardeeponly ones that use button_status() are brickmaina, wav2wv, doom, packbox and rockboy
10:59:03linuxstbThat's a pet-hate of mine...
10:59:06LinusNusing the rockbox menus for that would solve many mappings automagically
10:59:16LinusNlinuxstb: amen
10:59:21JdGordonok, so now i have a problem... Iv removed the left/right actions, now, in the colour picker it actually does need a left/right action, when this sort of thing happens do we use the ACTION_USER+x value? #define our value? or put it in the value list?
10:59:32sharpei have nothing to do. i'm rewriting paging code. gah.
11:00:06linuxstbJdGordon: You don't need left/right in the colour picker - you have something like "increment slider", "decrement slider"
11:00:11LinusNJdGordon: well, that would apply to the eq as well, wouldn't it?
11:00:23LinusNlinuxstb: exactly
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11:01:06linuxstbAnd the "next list item", "previous list item" actions choose the different sliders.
11:01:09Bg3rthe same keys as the ones in the settings
11:01:10JdGordonlinuxstb: ah, but if we add increment/decremenet we cant use the left/right buttons in the menus anymore, because they are mapped to select and cancel
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11:01:42linuxstbIsn't a screen with a list of sliders a different context to the menu?
11:01:45LinusNJdGordon: they are not the same contexts
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11:02:25LinusNJdGordon: with this concept, we would have plenty of contexts
11:02:27JdGordonthen there is going to be way too many contexts that it almost defeats the purpose of the whole thing
11:02:41LinusNi beg to differ
11:02:55JdGordonyour the boss :D
11:03:44LinusNwith this concept, we would have a huge file with all the different action lists for each context in rockbox
11:03:58LinusNbut it would be centralized
11:04:09Paul_The_NerdRather than button mappings split across tons of files.
11:04:19JdGordonok, i get ya
11:04:38LinusNanother benefit is that each list would be rather small
11:05:07JdGordonand there would be one central list of action values which would be huge?
11:05:24LinusNthose are only #define's
11:05:25linuxstbAs an incremental way of implementing this, how about taking all the existing button definitions - tree.h, list.h, wps.h etc etc and putting them in one central .h file? We could then try and refine that list, removing any duplication. After that, convert them to contexts and actions.
11:05:50LinusNlinuxstb: yes
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11:06:14*JdGordon sort of did that ages ago, first message in the mailing list has that list
11:06:19JdGordonbut some may have changed
11:06:28LinusNi think that is a way forward
11:06:56LinusNonly one thing to consider: how can we allow user defined buttons?
11:07:25LinusNcan you say "can of worms"? :-)
11:07:32hardeepi think that would be phase 2 =) adding this mechanism would make it possible
11:07:40Paul_The_NerdDon't allow user defined buttons for an action.
11:07:40_FireFly_for this we would need an array with the current button mapping which can be changed
11:07:45Paul_The_NerdAllow user defined actions for a button.
11:08:21JdGordonwe should still have a standad set of actions to stop having to define the same keys over and over again
11:08:25*linuxstb shudders
11:08:25Paul_The_NerdThen it'd be like a custom context..
11:08:40*JdGordon doubts custom keys would work
11:08:42LinusNJdGordon: i fear that this standard set would be rather small
11:08:46Paul_The_NerdI don't really like the idea of custom keys anyway.
11:09:00Paul_The_NerdOutside of, if there is a one button queue choice, to allow toggle between queue and insert.
11:09:14LinusNto quote bagder: "you'll drag me kicking and screaming into that mess"
11:09:15hardeepPaul_The_Nerd: i can't believe you, of all people, is saying that considering all the forum questions about it =)
11:09:52Paul_The_Nerdhardeep: I'm FIRMLY against Record being one-button queue.
11:10:09Paul_The_Nerdhardeep: I'm not so much against making the Select/NAVI and Right buttons do different things when you hit them on a file.
11:10:13hardeephehe, I see no reason for letting people do that if they want
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11:10:43Paul_The_NerdI think Record should have a set function, whatever it ends up being, instead of being treated as an up for grabs button.
11:11:02hardeepwell, i'm all for making all the buttons up for grabs, not just rec
11:11:19hardeepif someone wants up to go down in tree, why not!
11:11:36JdGordonhardeep: there is an optoin for that..
11:11:40LinusNhardeep: my main argument against user-defined buttons is that it is a nightmare to support
11:11:52JdGordondinner time, back in a while
11:11:56hardeepLinusN: yeah, that's definitely something to consider
11:12:03Paul_The_NerdMy main argument against it is exactly the same as LinusN's.
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11:12:22safetydanthe filename length limit of 255 is inherent to FAT right?
11:12:26Paul_The_NerdBut really, it also seems like a good way to complicate the code for very little gain.
11:13:26hardeepi think it's one of those things that someone can experiment with, knowing that there's no guarantee it'll make it into cvs
11:13:47Paul_The_NerdWell, everything is one of those. :)
11:14:19hardeepthe mechanism that everyone's proposing for handling buttons will allow it which is the important thing
11:15:51LinusNsafetydan: yes
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11:16:26safetydanrighto then
11:16:34hardeepi think it might be all windows filesystems... i hit the limit on my ntfs partition
11:16:48LinusNhardeep: i suppose so
11:20:00hardeepinteresting, ext2 and ext3 also have the same limit
11:20:12hardeepreiser is 4k
11:21:39safetydan255 chars should be enough for anyone :)
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11:23:14sharpe640k should be enough. :D
11:23:25hardeepactually, 255 bytes, not chars
11:24:56hardeepsorry, just reading the wiki page on filesystems, surprisingly interesting =)
11:25:02safetydanI wonder if it would be easier to use UTF-16/UCS-2 internally in Rockbox since most strings then would be a fixed number of bytes
11:25:28safetydannah, probably too much memory wastage for the normal case
11:25:39*safetydan goes back to porting libm
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11:45:00*JdGordon is back
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12:10:24JdGordonLinusN, linuxstb, Bg3r, hardeep, something like this perhaps for each target?"> ?
12:12:59Bg3rdo we need to distinguish remote from the main ?
12:13:31LinusNi think we do
12:13:42LinusNnot sure though
12:13:42JdGordonmost of the time no
12:14:08Bg3ryep, *most* of the time...
12:14:19JdGordonbye bye ACTION_RC then :p
12:14:46Bg3rswitch (get_action()){ ACTION_SELECT: ACTION_RC_SELECT: blabla ; break; blabla }
12:14:49LinusNsound reasonable
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12:16:06LinusNJdGordon: this looks almost exactly what i had in mind
12:16:13Bg3rsomeone who thinks that we will see different screens (like plugin on the main, wps on the remote) on the 2 displays in the near future ?
12:16:40Bg3rexcept that the 2 vars are with the same name ;)
12:16:47LinusNyes, i saw that too
12:16:49JdGordonBg3r: the vkeyboard is a good example of 2 diff screens
12:17:31Bg3rJdGordon: 2 different screens ?
12:17:34JdGordonits still gonna suck adding a new target, but it will suck alot less :p
12:18:02JdGordonso depending on which display u press a button youll get a different char added to the text
12:18:10*Bg3r hasn't used his h340 since 8th of july ... broken earbuds
12:19:11Bg3rvkeyboard is a context which needs ACTION_UP/ACTION_RIGHT etc ... :)
12:19:27JdGordonwould it be ok to do static struct button_code button_context_wps[] = NULL; for targets that the standard one is fine to make coding the loop easier?
12:20:28JdGordonor even better change the NULL to {} or is that naughty?
12:21:01Bg3ri don't think u can assign NULL to an array
12:21:36LinusNyou can't use the default mapping anyway
12:21:52LinusNit doesn't contain the ACTION_WPS_* actions
12:21:58linuxstbJdGordon: Doesn't the list code do different things for "NEXT" and "NEXT|REPEAT" ? i.e. it won't wrap on a REPEAT event.
12:22:13Bg3rJdGordon: what happens when u plug the h300 remote with this list ?
12:22:31Bg3rlinuxstb: ah, yes
12:22:45JdGordonLinusN: that was a bad example, ignore the _wps part...
12:22:52JdGordonlinuxstb: damn, yes your right
12:23:13JdGordonBg3r: dunno, havnt actually compiled it with rc support yet
12:23:30Bg3rJdGordon: i mean
12:23:38Bg3rhow would the code change this mapping
12:24:04JdGordonshould the get_action button have a int* param so the caller can get the raw button code if they want to check things like REPEAT ?
12:24:24JdGordonwhich mapping?
12:24:58Bg3rJdGordon: for example this button_context_standard is suited for h100 remote
12:25:09Bg3rwe need other mapping button->action for the h300 remote
12:26:10linuxstbJdGordon: Or maybe have extra actions - e.g. ACTION_NEXT and ACTION_REPEATED_NEXT. Most of the time, repeat is just checked to identify long presses.
12:26:45LinusNi'd go for the extra actions
12:27:16JdGordonoh, right, i tinhk it will need a different remote list for each remote that has all the changed button codes for all the different contexts and then the one to use can be chosen at runtime
12:27:44JdGordonok, more actions it is..
12:27:55Bg3rJdGordon: or a possibility to change the mappings ...
12:28:57JdGordoneither would work.. you can change a static array cant you?
12:29:06Bg3ryes, u can
12:29:26Bg3rexcept if it's const
12:31:10JdGordonok, so shouldnt be a problem
12:32:24Bg3rJdGordon: but ...
12:32:53JdGordonno buts.. one thing at a time
12:33:09Bg3rhow would this deal with the wps-a sh.itty combos ...
12:33:29Bg3rlike short - long
12:33:37Bg3rfor next dir
12:34:11linuxstbGet rid of them :)
12:34:18Bg3rhehe :)
12:34:28linuxstbIsn't there an alternative anyway?
12:34:30Bg3rlinuxstb: this would be a feature, yep ?:)
12:35:00Bg3ri don't know for such ...
12:35:40Bg3rmaybe we can just change it with (for the irivers) play + next ?
12:36:22linuxstbBut that wouldn't be so good on other targets with fewer buttons. Although it could just be a context menu option.
12:38:09JdGordonwhich option?
12:38:21JdGordonnext dir, ah
12:38:24Bg3rok, which is the target with least buttons ?
12:38:24JdGordonmissed that..
12:38:32Bg3rJdGordon: yep, a bad one :(
12:38:58JdGordoni love that option, anyway, it doesnt matter if one taregt hasnt got a combo for it, it can still be in the switch with no problems
12:39:42Bg3rseems that players and ondios">
12:41:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:41:48Bg3rand recording ;)
12:42:36amiconnImho the button action concept should achieve two main things:
12:42:47linuxstbBg3r: And ipods...
12:43:25amiconn(1) less code duplication (the lastbutton and _PRE business). (2) More consistent UI operation, as we're forced to identify all the possible actions
12:44:12JdGordonamiconn: we seem to be sliding away from #2 im afraid (but should be no worse than current) i agree tho on both point
12:44:19amiconnI don't think it will be possible to remove all #ifdefs, but the #ifdefs will become more natural
12:44:33amiconn(just excluding an action that is impossible on a certain target)
12:45:08LinusNJdGordon: why would we slide away from #2?
12:45:11amiconnI don't think we should include impossible actions - it would bloat the code unnecessarily
12:45:36amiconn(1) could even reduce code size a bit, but that's not sure
12:45:40JdGordonLinusN: thats the impressin im getting with the contexts
12:46:22LinusNhow would you solve it instead?
12:46:27*JdGordon back in an hour
12:46:28amiconnAh, and (3) it should allow remapping some buttons depending on the keypad type (different remotes on irivers)
12:46:59linuxstbBut at least if all the contexts are defined together in a single file, it's easier to spot inconsistencies. And the fact that we're all thinking about button definitions will clean them up as well.
12:47:53amiconnAs far as I followed the discussion, I agree with LinusN that the actions should be "object oriented", i.e. something like LIST_NEXT makes more sense than LIST_DOWN
12:48:11linuxstbAlso, I think consistency is more of an issue in plugins, than the core.
12:48:29amiconnConsistency definitely is an issue in the core
12:49:03amiconnPerhaps not with the menus, wps or browser
12:49:44amiconn...but the radio operation is rather inconsistent
12:50:54amiconnAn idea is to make the button action logic table driven (and as far as I followed it is). Then different contexts just mean switching the table, and different remotes mean switching another table
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12:51:41LinusNamiconn: exactly
12:54:18amiconnI don't think the player or Ondio keypad are a real problem. They weren't with the old solution, although they're a little difficult
12:55:08amiconnBoth have 6 buttons, and while the Ondio keypad looks a bit more logical than the player one, I think it's a bit more difficult to handle
12:55:09linuxstbI haven't thought this through, but how about having a core table of actions, and then a specific context will add more? e.g. if we wanted the record button to always go to the record screen (on such targets), then that could be part of the core actions. A Menu action would always bring up the menu (or quick-exit the menu if you're already there) etc.
12:56:02amiconn(a) The Ondio keypad only has one button really suited for combos (Mode). The player has two (On and Menu)
12:56:59amiconn(although combos should be avoided where possible, because they defeat one-handed operation)
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12:59:14amiconn(b) The Ondio buttons are more fixed in their possible (read: intuitive) mapping, as 4 of them form a "cursor cross"
13:05:32amiconnThe ipods are a different problem. They have one button less than player and Ondio, and even though they have the wheel actions, they're less logical
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13:38:47LinusNwee, i can draw on the x5 remote lcd
13:39:19amiconnLinusN: Uh, you wrote the drawing routines?
13:40:13LinusNwell, i used (and corrected) the SPI patch from raenye, and just experimented with writing raw data to the gram
13:40:32LinusNthe gram format is somewhat silly
13:40:39amiconnYes I know
13:40:59amiconnThe only thing I don't know yet is the actual orientation of the bytes
13:41:16amiconnHorizontal or vertical? Position of the LSB?
13:41:29amiconnI have the controller datasheet
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13:42:07amiconnThe data format isn't all that silly, btw. Look at it as 16bit data, and it becomes much more logical
13:42:27LinusNah, yes
13:42:38amiconnFB_DATA will be short for the x5 remote, I think
13:43:09*amiconn already has most of the drawing routines in his head
13:43:53LinusNlsb is the topmost pixel btw
13:44:12LinusNso it's pretty much like the archos lcd
13:44:36amiconnMore like H100 main lcd
13:44:55amiconnOkay, so vertical bytes, and LSB at top. Nice.
13:45:17amiconn2 bytes per pxiel column
13:45:53amiconnVertical bytes and LSB at top will simplify mono bitmap drawing and hence text output
13:46:04amiconnShould be equally fast as H100 main lcd, or even faster
13:46:10LinusNyes, with the first byte having the msb of the pixel value and the second byte is lsb
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13:46:59amiconnNow I'd like a scan of the X5 remote front view... for the sim
13:47:20LinusNok, i'll see what i can do
13:47:40*JdGordon back
13:47:56*amiconn seems to have gotten a task for this evening :)
13:48:25JdGordon<linuxstb> I haven't thought this through, but how about having a core table of actions, and then a specific context will add more? e.g. if we wanted the record button to always go to the record screen (on such targets), then that could be part of the core actions. <- ye this is what should happen, the problem is defining what these core actions are, and then making sure they wont intefere with other contexts
13:48:28amiconnLuckily the x5 is coldfire, so I can easily check whether the code is efficient or not
13:48:49LinusNi'll commit the low level driver asap
13:48:59JdGordonand the dirwalker patch... :p
13:49:54LinusNtarget/coldfire/iaudio/x5/lcd-x5-remote.c i guess
13:50:20amiconnThe other one should be called firmware/drivers/lcd-2bit-vert-lace-remote.c if we stick with the current naming scheme
13:50:25amiconnA bit long though...
13:50:34LinusNhorrible :-)
13:50:52LinusNbut yes, that sounds ok i guess
13:52:01amiconnHmm, it seems it would make sense to abstract the drawing a bit more, so that we can use the same drawing code for main & remote if they have the same pixel format
13:52:22amiconnBut I don't know how to achieve that, without introducing additional code and delays...
13:53:13amiconnA lot of macro magic might help, but I doubt many devs would understand later how it works
13:54:10amiconn*Someone* should also split lcd-recorder.c, lcd-player.c, lcd-h100.c and lcd-h100-remote.c
13:54:36*LinusN looks away
13:55:32amiconnlcd-ipod.c should also be split in 2, maybe lcd-ipod-gray.c and lcd-ipod-color.c
13:55:52amiconnlcd-ipod-video.c is already separate
13:57:52amiconnLinusN: The target tree path for ipods would be firmware/target/arm/ipod/<model> with model={mini2g, video, ...}, right?
13:58:00humulusLinusN: i'll sent my x5l back to amazon they will change it or fix it
13:58:34LinusNamiconn: yes, but maybe "apple" instead of "ipod"
13:58:40amiconnWhy apple?
13:58:43LinusNhumulus: good
13:58:50amiconniaudio is a product line, not a company?
13:58:59LinusNyes, my mistake
13:59:10LinusNit was supposed to be <manufacturer>
13:59:21LinusNit doesn't really matter
13:59:31LinusNipod would be fine
13:59:34amiconnDifferent product lines might need different branches, so imho it's even better to use product lines instead of manufacturers
14:00:01amiconn(thinking about e.g. archos (sh line) and gmini)
14:00:31amiconn...which leaves us with the problem of the product line name for the old archoses
14:00:54amiconnMaybe just archos, even though it sort of breaks the 'product line' scheme
14:02:06amiconnlcd-ipod-video.c would then reside in, while lcd-ipod.c (even when split in two) would reside in iiuc it is used for more than one of the ipod targets
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14:02:47barrywardelldoes anyone here know about the iaudio x5?
14:03:12barrywardelli was just looking at the hardware specs and think it may have the same lcd as the h10
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14:04:23amiconnLinusN: correct?
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14:06:17LinusNbarrywardell: the x5 has a Renesas HD66773R LCD
14:06:54safetydanwoo... nearly to the point I can calculate sunrise, sunset for the day on Rockbox...
14:07:18LinusNamiconn: we could call it "jukebox" instead of "archos", or even "archos_jb"
14:08:36barrywardellLinusN: has it been got to work on the x5? If so, I'll have a look at the rockbox driver
14:09:09LinusNbarrywardell: hehe, x5 has been working for quite a while now
14:09:28amiconnLinusN: The Ondio isn't called 'jukebox'
14:09:35LinusNamiconn: damn
14:10:26barrywardellLinusN: great, thanks. hopefully that will make it easier to get the lcd working on the h10
14:10:35Bg3rwhat happened with target/<cpu>/ thingy ?
14:10:37LinusNbarrywardell: good luck
14:10:52*amiconn wonders whether we should also move code for inactive targets
14:10:57LinusNBg3r: it's there, it's just amiconn who is lazy at typing
14:11:08LinusNamiconn: gmini?
14:11:23Bg3rthen what's the problem ? for example gmini won't be in the sh subtree
14:11:24amiconnMeh, forgot the /cpu/ part :/
14:11:25LinusNi'm tempted to scrap the gmini
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14:12:08amiconnIf we leave it where it is when moving the others, it "taints" the code tree
14:12:32amiconnBut moving it also means work, and we don't know whether it will ever get picked up again
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14:12:56amiconncalmrisc is a weird architecture
14:13:22amiconnand not having code RAM doesn't make things easier either
14:13:29*JdGordon is starting to regret starting a wiki page for the action discussion :p
14:13:34*JdGordon hates writing
14:13:59markunthe samsung CPUs in the new irivers have a ARM core, CalmRISC core and some DSP unit
14:14:21amiconnmarkun: Then the calmrisc core *is* the dsp
14:14:40amiconnBut the gmini *only* has a calmrisc core
14:14:53amiconnThink of it as of running rockbox on a dsp...
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14:15:48Bg3ra year-2 ago rockbox run on a dsp
14:17:28amiconnThe MAC2424 belongs to the calmrisc core
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14:17:45theprodukkthey all
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14:19:56theprodukktwell ive a offtopic question, but i think youre experienced enough to help me :)
14:19:57theprodukktok my computer (windows) is connected to the internet through my linux-firewall (a dedicated pc standing in the floor, the distribution is called ipcop)
14:20:32midkayi've seen offtopic before, but... :o
14:21:04barrywardellLinusN: one more thing. any tips on creating a new build target? I edited tools/configure and created config-h10.h
14:21:21theprodukktnow i want a small server running on my ipcop (the firewall) from where i can see which computers (ips) are actually running on my home network, or from where i can start (wake up on lan) some pcs
14:21:52 Quit Jungti1234 ()
14:22:14theprodukktit would also be nice if i could start some servers on my local pc from that frontend, for example vnc or teamspeak server,..
14:22:21linuxstb_amiconn: I've just been playing with the Radio and Recording screens on my H140, and I agree that at least the radio screen is very inconsistent with the rest of Rockbox... I had also forgotten about the existence of a "record" button on the H140, and my instinct was to use Play/Pause to start recording (and potentially pause/resume it).
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14:22:40theprodukktdo u have any ideas how i could realize such a project
14:22:44linuxstb_barrywardell: Have you edited firmware/export/config.h to include your new config-h10.h file?
14:22:48LinusNbarrywardell: maybe it's time for the NewTargetHowto wiki page
14:22:55midkaygoogle, but certainly not here..
14:23:19theprodukkti just thought maybe your experienced in that server stuff
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14:23:27barrywardelllinuxstb_: no, didn't know about that
14:23:45linuxstb_After that, I think it's just a matter of fixing all the compile errors...
14:24:19LinusNbarrywardell: what entry did you copy when adding the h10 in tools/configure?
14:24:21linuxstb_Oh, plus add a new target to tools/scramble.c and change MODEL_NAME and MODEL_NUM in config-h10.h
14:24:30midkayi'm not, and i don't think you'll find much help in here. i've seen plenty of people shunned away even just for asking questions pertaining to DAPs in general.. let alone a home networking project.
14:24:57barrywardellLinusN: I based it mostly off the ipod color and mini1g
14:25:03theprodukktok :/
14:26:02linuxstb_barrywardell: Also, config.h will tell you the possible values for some of the #defines you can have in your config-h10.h You'll probably need to add new ones for new hardware - such as the RTC chip, backlight etc.
14:26:04theprodukktdoes there exist a offtopic rockboxcommunity channel ;)?
14:27:04barrywardelllinuxstb_: just looking through config.h now. I see what you mean
14:27:07LinusNbarrywardell: look at the x5 entry and copy the t_cpu, t_manufacturer and t_model entries
14:27:31barrywardellLinusN: i was just about to ask about that. saw something about it in the wiki
14:28:33LinusNbarrywardell: it would be awfully nice if you created a PortingHowto wiki page, only with short notes about what files you had to change
14:28:47LinusNi can fill in the rest and make it a howto
14:29:42barrywardellLinusN: will do. i'll try to get things working and then document my work
14:30:40theprodukkt cya
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14:31:52Jungti1234I have question
14:32:00FebsI hate it when people use the word "bricked" in the title of forum threads, when their player is not, in fact, bricked.
14:32:32midkayFebs: i heard someone got moderatorship ;)
14:32:36Jungti1234Rockbox use is unlawfulness?
14:32:51LinusNJungti1234: no
14:32:57Jungti1234reason please
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14:33:15LinusNJungti1234: why do you think it would break the law?
14:33:24Jungti1234I don't know.
14:33:31LinusNthen why do you ask?
14:33:34Jungti1234Some Korean's ideas.
14:33:52LinusNask him why he think it would be unlawful
14:34:23GaloisI can see why someone might think rockbox is illegal. It's superficially similar to (say) modding game consoles, which some say is illegal.
14:34:25*midkay is slightly amused.
14:34:41midkayillegal why? it's yours, you own it..
14:34:52Galoiswell, yes, you're the preacher and I'm the choir here
14:34:56LinusNJungti1234: just let him explain why he think it would be unlawful, and then we can answer him
14:34:58GaloisI'm just saying, other people are weird
14:35:13midkayno idea on if it is or not, i just think it shouldn't be regardless :)
14:35:59Jungti1234um...... use iriver's firmware to iriver player.
14:36:20Jungti1234iriver player made by iriver.
14:36:37 Join Rondom [0] (
14:36:52midkayiriver player bought by user, user do what user want with iriver player :)
14:36:56Jungti1234Rockbox is firmware that they don't recognize.
14:37:14Jungti1234ah, midkay....
14:37:20*midkay waves
14:37:21Jungti1234yes yes..
14:37:26midkay.. yes?
14:37:49Jungti1234You are right.
14:38:32midkayi'd think so.. can't say for sure.
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14:38:57Jungti1234I think..... you're right. :)
14:41:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:42:28Jungti1234English is much different from Korean.
14:42:52Jungti1234I'm difficult to understand correct meaning.
14:43:15JdGordonyay, my first real wiki addition :) nock yourselves out :p
14:43:25Jungti1234anyway thanks LinusN
14:43:43markunLinusN: by porting rockbox to the Gigabeat we are avoiding the encryption used by the current firmware for all files. Is this a DMCA violation?
14:44:08LinusNas i see it, no
14:44:22LinusNwe are not doing it for the purpose of copyright violation
14:44:41Galoisyou're basically doing what that garage opener company did
14:44:47Galoisor the inkjet cartridge refill company
14:44:52LinusNand isn't the dmca an american law?
14:44:54Galoisboth of which got sued, IIRC
14:45:07Galoisand dvd-jon got arrested under american law even though he's norwegian
14:45:21LinusNand then released
14:45:41GaloisI think it's legal but will put you in some grief
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14:49:05LinusNthe garage opener suit was dismissed, because the dmca didn't apply
14:49:49LinusNiirc, interoperability is a legal reason for reverse engineering even in f*scist dmca land
14:50:17merbananmarkun: are you breaking the encryption ?
14:50:18*LinusN is starting to sound like bluechip
14:51:30markunmerbanan: no
14:52:18merbananmarkun: will this port cicumvent copy protection of copy protected files ?
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14:52:53merbananif not then it should be safe but you never know what new laws they will invent
14:54:07barrywardelllinuxstb; you said to add a new target to scramble.c. What does this file do? it looks like it is something to do with building the firmware
14:54:32LinusNbarrywardell: scramble.c is used to create the rockbox binary image
14:54:48LinusNwhich is loaded by the rockbox bootloader
14:55:16LinusNeach rockbox target has an id
14:55:37LinusNso the loader won't load a binary for an incompatible target
14:56:27Bagderfor mi4-players, we could start off using the built-in loader and use mi4code to create binaries with
14:56:48barrywardellLinusN: ah, ok
14:57:10barrywardellBagder: so will I just ignore scramble.c for the moment then?
14:57:18Bagderyes, I think so
14:57:27Bagderlet's use mi4code instead
14:57:44Bagderconfigure can be told to use that
14:57:55BagderI mean when you edit it to add support for H10
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14:58:46barrywardellBagder: ok so.
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15:04:45Jungti1234If decipher firmware, can get image which is used to firmware?
15:04:46markunif you have a question you can just ask without calling me first
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15:04:52Jungti1234okok :)
15:05:20markunyou want to change the pictures in the firmware?
15:06:04Jungti1234no, I want to have images(include themes)....
15:06:37markunI think we are talking about the same thing..
15:06:39Jungti1234I want to have image of iFP-1000 firmware.
15:07:08Jungti1234and want to have 'default' theme of E10 firmware
15:07:47markunbut I cannot help you anymore right now
15:08:38Jungti1234when can you help me..? :)
15:09:08Jungti1234If you can help me, I can wait to anytime.
15:16:10markunjust try it by yourself. Maybe some other iriver E10 owners want to help you.
15:17:09JdGordoncan i put an extern *blaa; in a .h in the apps/ and the actual blaa in a .c in the firmware folder?
15:17:46linuxstb_Why can't you put them in the same place?
15:18:08JdGordonbecause im not sure where the best place for it all is..
15:18:25*JdGordon has buttons on the brain atm.
15:18:56linuxstb_A .h and .c should be together IMO - either together in apps/ (if the firmware code doesn't need to use it), or in firmware/ if it's needed by the code in firmware.
15:19:39JdGordonif the button lists go in apps it will make a mess of the folder unless it all goes in a new subfolder of apps/?
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15:19:59LinusNhow many files would it be?
15:20:11JdGordon1 for each target didnt we decide?
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15:20:16JdGordonor 1 really long one
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15:23:09LinusNapps/keymaps/*.h maybe?
15:24:54GnelikBagder: I have decompiled raw file with IDA but i don't know what help do you need?
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15:32:11Jungti1234but I don't know output file extension.
15:32:42Jungti1234i don't know what its result.
15:39:42Jungti1234He(asked Rockbox is unlawfulness) speaks.
15:40:07Jungti1234'Rockbox isn't hacking?'
15:40:23LinusNno it isn't
15:40:38LinusNit's software development
15:41:02LinusNwhich in fact is "hacking" to me
15:41:06Jungti1234doesn't it hack original firmware?
15:41:18LinusNwe don't use the original firmware
15:41:23LinusNwe replace it
15:41:56LinusNyes, the bootloader is a grey area, but it would only be illegal if we distribute the patched firmware
15:42:05LinusNwhich we don't
15:42:20Jungti1234:D very good answer
15:42:31LinusNthat's why the installation is so cumbersome, with fwpatcher etc
15:44:46Jungti1234what is grey area?
15:44:49Jungti1234gray area?
15:45:11Jungti1234middle area?
15:45:16LinusNsort of
15:47:50Jungti1234good.. thank you.
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16:07:32JdGordongnite all
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17:34:35GnelikWhot type of procesor chooze when disasembling decoded mi4 file
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17:35:43linuxstb_The PP5020 has two arm7tdmi cores.
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17:36:11linuxstb_(and the PP5024)
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17:57:48axman, copying data to my rockbox enabled ipod is amazingly slow
17:58:25Mikachuboot the stock firmware first
17:58:47linuxstb_It's a known "feature" of Apple's emergency disk mode (which is what Rockbox reboots you into). As Mikachu said - boot into Apple's firmware first.
17:59:06Slasherihehe, now i really started to plan some drafts for own coldfire based mp3 player :) probably i am going to not include display at all, instead have a bluetooth module so every operations could be controlled with a mobile phone :)
18:00:04chendothat'll only market to people who have a mobile phone with bluetooth ;/
18:00:07axokay, thanks
18:00:45Slasheria player with only power switch and nothing else =) would be great for me
18:01:01linuxstb_Buy an ipod shuffle :)
18:01:04Slasheribut then it needs software for the phone side
18:01:20Slasherithat's not funny, not too powerful cpu and no compiler support.. =)
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18:01:54linuxstb_Isn't there a generic way to add a menu to a phone via bluetooth - i.e. without any special software on the phone? I remember a winamp plugin related to that...
18:02:14Slasherino.. at least i have never heard about that
18:02:29Slasheribut should be easy to transfer whole screen bitmap from player to the phone display
18:03:20Slasheribluetooth should have at least 1 Mbit/s bandwidth
18:05:50Slasheriand then no need to bother about usb bridge for file transfer.. at least not for the first version (wifi would be faster but much more complex to implement)
18:06:50amiconn"at least"?
18:07:00crwlthat sounds like quite an interesting idea
18:07:04crwli'd include the USB bridge, though
18:07:11amiconnbluetooth (v1) _brutto data rate is 1MBit - in both directions
18:07:25Slasheriyes, that's slow indeed..
18:07:55amiconnIf you want to transfer colour frames, it's indeed slow
18:08:01Slasheriunless mmc is used as storage, but then it would have quite low capacity
18:08:50Slasheriamiconn: hmm, true
18:09:12Slasherior then just implement the widgets on the phone side and transfer content only
18:09:48linuxstb_Or implement the whole UI on the phone side...
18:10:14Slasherilinuxstb_: that would probably work best but i hate symbian programming.. :D
18:10:25crwldo it with j2me then :H
18:10:36amiconnOn archos we do slightly more than 1MBit/s transfer to the lcd (even slightly exceeding the lcd controller specs btw), and achieve a bit more than 100fps
18:10:36Slashericrwl: hehe :) hmm, that sounds better ;)
18:10:46amiconnThat's with 112x64 monochrome...
18:11:35Slasheriamiconn: hmm.. then that doesn't sound too bad. could be just enough for a monochrome display :)
18:11:57Slasheribtw, the coldfire chips are very cheap, 21e for the 140 MHz version
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18:17:57goffadoes rb support pcm?
18:19:42linuxstb_What do you mean?
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18:21:36Jungti1234pcm type?
18:21:46goffawell... does it play .pcm files
18:22:52linuxstb_To be honest, I'm not sure what a .pcm file is. If it's just raw uncompressed PCM audio, then it's bit tricky to do anything with it without a header describing the format.
18:23:13goffayeah.. that's what it is
18:23:30goffabut i think it has a header
18:23:32goffai don't need it
18:23:43goffabut have a friend that was asking
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18:23:48apo`:/ My iPod's screen is dying
18:24:11linuxstb_Assuming there's some kind of header, It should be trivial to add support for it - probably in the WAV codec.
18:24:21linuxstb_(or a new codec based on the wav one)
18:25:19linuxstb_goffa: You can tell him/her that Rockbox supports both WAV and AIFF, plus lots of lossless formats such as FLAC, Wavpack, Apple Lossless and Shorten.
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19:40:20solushow big a risk is it that when trying to install rockbox on my ipod nano, i accidentally corrupt the original firmware and end up not being able to run it at all?
19:41:42Quarrymanyou can always reinstall the original firmware
19:42:10solusi can get that from apple?
19:43:46Galoisif somebody fucks up their nano it's a good bet they'll complain to us. Having said that, in the past six months we know of _one_ person who broke their ipod while installing rockbox, and we suspect the ipod broke because of hardware failure that just happened to coincide with installing rockbox.
19:44:25solusthat sounds scary
19:44:41soluswhen is AAC decoding likely to be finished?
19:44:48Galoisone person out of a few thousand is not that great a risk
19:44:57solusno, not really
19:45:03Galoisbut, its up to you
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19:45:22solusof course it is, I'm just feeling my way around
19:45:28 Join spiorf [0] (
19:45:30solusit seems really cool
19:45:45solusthe only feature i *need* is the gapless playback
19:45:50solusbut all of it is cook
19:46:23k8to_it must be hard to do a proper QA of a rockbox release
19:46:23Galoisin theory you can always recover the hardware, because 1) rockbox installation only affects the contents of the disk, 2) apple's recovery utility works no matter what's on the disk
19:47:04solushow about that AAC-thing?
19:47:22GaloisI have no idea. I do not use AAC.
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19:49:41GaloisI've heard of people accidentally nuking all the music on their ipod, so obviously you should back that up (even though a normal rockbox installation will not nuke your music)
19:50:24goffayeah... i'd feel totally confident in installing it
19:50:48goffain fact.. my h140 went TU... i was able to put original firmware back on for warranty
19:52:14solusi keep my music on the computer
19:52:22k8to_goffa: haha good thing the right part broke
19:52:23solusthe ipod only has room for 4G
19:52:42k8to_TU == tits up == british for broken
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19:56:41goffayeah true k8to_
19:56:51goffai don't know about british... i'm from montana :)
19:57:08goffaif it was hard drive i would have just put in a bigger one
19:58:17k8to_goffa: i'm sure you picked it up from the british isles somehow, perhaps indirectly
19:58:50goffacould be... goff is of welsh descent :)
20:00:02goffabut people around here use it all the time
20:01:59goffai just assumed it came from when something died.. like a pig or some animal
20:02:13goffathey are on their back.. thus tits up
20:05:58k8to_i bet that is true
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20:23:09goffawell... people seem to like this idea...
20:23:19goffanow we just need someone to implement it :)
20:23:40goffamaking right queue and play... and navi play
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20:28:04goffahmm... looks like they couldn't repair my 140.. says pending replacement
20:28:23scorcheBagder: there?
20:29:20goffanew is better
20:30:32BigMacwere can i get an invite to that site its killing me trying to find one..
20:30:52scorchei dont know...find one
20:31:30BigMacso what was the point of telling me about a site then telling me to go screw myself exactly
20:32:24goffawhat site?
20:32:41BigMaci dont think im alowwed to talk about it here
20:33:08goffaheh ok.. you can pm me
20:33:27HulexI am question machine :V
20:33:48HulexAnyway to create/edit playlists through the computer. As in, not the iPod?
20:33:56Hulexrockbox of course.
20:34:23scorche.m3u format
20:34:33scorchethere are many programs that will write one
20:34:42HulexAny for Mac?
20:34:50scorchei am sure
20:34:57scorche.m3u is a very common format
20:35:02*scorche returns to work
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20:35:19HulexAgain, just need more time to tool around with it
20:35:55rconanyou can make them by hand easily enough
20:35:56goffaitunes will
20:36:15rconanm3u files are just lists of relative paths
20:36:26Hulexooh cool
20:36:31Hulex this looks helpful
20:36:40Hulexbeaten XD
20:37:32goffayou still there BigMac?
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20:39:06goffareply to my pm :)
20:39:24BigMaci didn't get one...
20:39:37goffaodd... well send me your email addy
20:40:15BigMacadress gotcha
20:40:49goffacheck your email
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20:41:11goffadidn't mean for you to post in the chan.. but that works
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20:43:15BigMacgoffa, i know mail on mail relationships may be illegal in some places but i love you:-P
20:47:30muesli__to love somebody without beeing loved is like answering without being asked :D
20:47:31goffahe he he
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20:49:51BigMacow that hurt me:_)
20:50:34muesli__sorry for that :)
20:50:50muesli__live isnt nice all the time
20:51:43muesli__tricky word...
20:51:59 Part solus
20:54:37goffalate lunch sucks... guess it'll be a short afternoon... 6 mins and i can fire up the bbq
20:57:05BigMacon the site mentioned how do i change my profile
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21:01:24goffawell.. bbl.. going afk
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21:22:02dan_aCould someone help me with some programming? Is "ldr r4, =address", "mov r3, #value", "str r3, [r4]" in ARM assembly the same as outl(value, address) in C?
21:24:07linuxstb_I believe so.
21:24:35markunonly if address points to memory mapped IO
21:25:05LearAre the build times estimates on the CVS builds page accurate nowadays?
21:25:38dan_amarkun: Ah... how would I tell?
21:25:51 Quit FOAD (Remote closed the connection)
21:26:06dan_a(excuse my ignorance!)
21:26:15markundan_a: by looking at the documentation. Which CPU is it?
21:26:42dan_aPP5002 - address is 0xcf004058
21:27:44markun 0xcf004058 sleep COP
21:27:59linuxstb_dan_a: Are you looking at Rockbox, or disassembling retailos?
21:28:13dan_alinuxstb: Playing with Rockbox
21:28:33dan_aI'm just trying to wake up the COP and have it send itsself back to sleep
21:28:34*linuxstb_ is currently looking at the Sansa firmware
21:29:17markunlinuxstb_: the E10 firmware also decodes with the ifp decoder:
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21:30:22bluebrotheris this request doable?
21:31:21linuxstb_bluebrother: I don't see why not. Isn't it already done?
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21:31:45bluebrotherlinuxstb_, I think of MASCODEC −− SWCODEC already has crossfade
21:32:30bluebrotheras the poster refers to some archos device and it's implemented I was thinking if we could close it.
21:32:51bluebrotheras I don't have any idea how it should be possible mixing mp3 streams before actual decoding it
21:32:58linuxstb_I don't read that feature request as cross-fade. Just fading down the current track, then fading in the next track. But I haven't used a hwcodec device for a long time.
21:33:05amiconnCrossfade is *impossible* on the MAS, except (perhaps) for future integrated wav playback
21:33:30*amiconn wonders why so many people want all those fading crap
21:34:24bluebrotherso should we close that task? At least wav crossfading isn't what he requested.
21:35:14amiconnThe complement for fade on stop/pause could be done - fade in on play/unpause
21:35:37linuxstb_dan_a: If you're going to try using the COP, the big issue to remember is cache coherency - i.e. the two CPUs have their own caches, without bus snooping. So you can only really use IRAM to share data between the two CPUs (IRAM isn't cached).
21:36:34dan_alinuxstb: Thanks - I'd read that in the logs. At the moment I'm really just experimenting and learning
21:37:20dan_aBut what I was thinking of trying to do was run the codec thread on the COP, since I think the codec and audio buffers are both in IRAM
21:38:02dan_aThere's probably huge flaws in that plan, but I'll find out what they are when I hit them
21:38:06linuxstb_Not always - I think it depends on the codec.
21:40:01dan_aEven if it doesn't work it means I'm learning how the various bits of Rockbox fit together :)
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21:42:58BigMacgoffa:say something when your hback
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21:49:21*Lear pings bagder: build server stuck again, it seems.
21:51:02dan_aAnyway, real life calls. Thanks for your help linuxstb and markun.
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22:00:02*amiconn summons LinusN, Bagder or Zagor
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22:04:08goffaback BigMac ... sort of
22:04:34grimmanIf anyone's reading who was here when my iPod transfer rates were acting up; using a different USB port did work.
22:05:52BigMacgoffa do you have aim
22:06:04BigMacsince private chat doesnt work between us
22:07:00BigMaci think rockbox needs a mascot
22:07:18|apo|How about a pet rock?
22:07:31|apo|*cough* sorry
22:07:34grimmanThat would rock!
22:08:27goffayeah.. i do
22:08:40goffausername goffa
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22:31:53BigMacisnt 192 kbps considered vorbis?
22:35:36 Quit Nico_P ()
22:38:01BigMacis it?
22:38:55linuxstb_"192kbps" is just a bitrate - it's unrelated to any particular format.
22:39:09BigMaci thought that that was the quality
22:40:40BgerBigMac: yes, it's directly related to the quality
22:41:40BigMacand wouldnt that quality be the qaulity of vorbis
22:41:42linuxstb_Sort of... A higher bitrate will normally mean higher quality - but it depends on the encoder, other settings etc etc.
22:41:47***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:43:10linuxstb_BigMac: There's no such thing as "the quality of vorbis". Vorbis can have varying quality - depending on the bitrate used to encode the vorbis file.
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22:43:26Bgerand on the encoder ...
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22:52:31enzymeany one here use the philips az1835 stereo
23:05:01goffamidkay: i answered you
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23:11:14BigMacwere is the rocks folder go? in .rockbox or in root
23:13:04dionoeabtw, i noticed a patch on the tracker splitting the rocks directory in different subcategories (games, demos, editors, utils ...)
23:13:10dionoeathat would be nice
23:14:28linuxstb_Does it handle localisation?
23:15:37dionoeai don't have a clue
23:18:52linuxstb_It looks good to me - it's the approach I've been thinking about. It just creates subdirs in .rocks/, and replaces the "browse plugins" menu option with a sub-menu with entries "Browse Games", "Browse Utilities" etc
23:21:50 Quit _FireFly_ ("Leaving")
23:22:04*amiconn wonders why that would be needed
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23:22:41*amiconn spots some small optimisation possibilities in the 2 bit lcd drivers
23:23:52midkayamiconn: not "needed", but easier access to certain plugins. we're getting a lot..
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23:24:35midkaywe have more than 50 now, don't we?
23:24:37amiconnI don't think that we have so many plugins that we need to split them
23:24:56midkaywe already have a lot, and we'll keep getting more..
23:25:07dionoeathe plugins list is getting a bit too long IMO
23:25:29BagderI too think we should split them up
23:26:00amiconnIf you really think so....
23:26:20amiconnI can browse the list without problems...
23:26:28dionoeacompletely different question: how do you connect an archos recorder to your PC if you lost the old usb cable ?
23:26:38amiconnBuy a new one...
23:26:49dionoeausb a - usb a ?
23:26:55dionoeado people sell those ?
23:27:06amiconnA-A cables violate the USB standard, but some shops have them
23:27:20dionoeaneat, i didn't know that
23:27:38*linuxstb_ recently bought a cheap ipod dock that came with an A-A cable
23:27:58amiconnWell, connecting two PCs with a plain A-A cable is one of the fastest way to make them crash
23:28:14amiconn(and perhaps even destroy some components)
23:28:42dionoeayay ! they sell them for 5euros here (France)
23:28:54dionoeaand 2.60 on the net
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23:29:48linuxstb_Bagder: What do you think of jdgordon's patch for splitting the plugins?
23:30:05Bagderhaven't checked it out actually
23:30:59linuxstb_Not specifically the code, just the idea (see my description 12 minutes ago)
23:31:24Bagderoh yes, I like that
23:31:27Bagderplain and simple
23:33:19linuxstb_Bagder: Do you know how much flash the Sansa has got (for the OS)?
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23:41:39BigMacwhat does audio scrobbler do exactly
23:43:18 Join _freqmod_ [0] (
23:43:27Bagderreport to a server what you've listened to
23:45:00BigMacoh i see
23:45:10linuxstb_"Audioscrobbler is a database that tracks music listening habits and calculates relationships and recommendations."
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23:45:51kerbkerb/"> for example
23:46:13kerbrockbox submits there when I hook it up to the computer :)
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23:48:12barrywardellBagder: How is work going with the Sansa? Any more progress?
23:48:36Bagdernot by me, no
23:48:52Bagderwork/other projects have taken my time
23:49:05Bagder(and I'm still actually on vacation ;-)
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23:50:44BigMacok and one final question, does anyone have about 1 minute of time literally and a decent imagery software (photoshop etc)?
23:50:53 Quit midkay (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:51:43barrywardellBagder: ah, ok. Might be good to take a break and come back with a fresh mind!
23:52:25Bagderthere's basically disassembling for us to do next
23:54:19barrywardellsounds like a lot of hard work. were you not able to track down any docs on the lcd?
23:55:16Bagderbut I thought I'd check if it is similar to the h300 one
23:55:29Bagdersince it is the same resolution, only rotated
23:55:30 Quit ender` (" Drive defensively. Buy a tank.")
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23:56:14obospeaking of Audioscrobbler - is there any chance that someone could take a look at it, with an eye to inclusion? (FS 5166)
23:56:38amiconnMeh, gcc is dumb
23:57:19barrywardellhopefully it will be. would save you a lot of work. i'm hoping for similar luck with the H10 and iAudio X5
23:57:33 Quit _freqmod_ (Remote closed the connection)
23:57:35amiconnBagder: If it's the same as H300, but rotated, then the controller is actually used as intended

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