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#rockbox log for 2006-10-14

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01:29:22Soapdang it, the Audioscrobbler/Last.FM log patch didn't get commited. Is there still a problem with how it is written? Or is a working playback database still being waited on?
01:31:57BHSPitLappythere's an as plugin for rockbox?
01:33:34Soapoh yeah.
01:33:40Soapand it works pretty dang well.
01:33:45Soapthank you.
01:34:05Soap(My first instance of "wrong windows" ever)
01:36:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:56:17Kohlribahow is the data sent to audioscrobbler?
01:57:39Paul_the_NerdI believe you just run a script on your computer
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02:07:16Xerionthe bug that prevents the logger to log the first played item should be fixed first imo
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02:26:20 Quit Genre9mp3 ("I don't suffer from Rockbox psychosis. I enjoy every minute of it.")
02:29:20 Quit barrywardell ()
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02:37:58 Part archidendron
02:39:37 Join webguest04 [0] (i=42b79443@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
02:44:39Joelyomg! there's Galois!!!
02:44:49Joelyhahaha, i love Galois theory
02:44:57webguest04hey there. i just installed rockbox onto my ipod mini g2, and the battery runs out after 3 hours, after having been fully charged. however, according to apple, the battery should last up to 18 hours.
02:45:24webguest04...does rockbox drain the battery quicker? or is there another problem?
02:46:07Paul_the_NerdRockbox drains the battery quicker, but usually you only get half of what you'd get under similar conditions, not 1/6 as you described.
02:46:25 Quit TeaSea (Remote closed the connection)
02:47:09webguest04okay. is there any way at all that i can maximize the battery life, while keeping rockbox?
02:47:32webguest04imho, the apple way of managing music is just ridiculous, and rockbox works much better for me.
02:48:00Paul_the_NerdRockbox is still fairly early on on the PortalPlayer targets, so it just has some distance to go yet.
02:48:43Paul_the_NerdBut you can make sure the backlight isn't on any longer than you need it, choose options that don't use more CPU (such as disabling crossfeed and the equalizer), and making sure the option that turns the disk off when unused is enabled.
02:49:15CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
02:49:15*amiconn realises that a new runtime test on mini g2 would probably be useful
02:49:16webguest04mm! okay! thanks!
02:49:41amiconnLast time I ran one (a few months ago) I got ~10 hours
02:49:59amiconnThat was with 192kbps mp3
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03:02:46 Join ton [0] (
03:03:00godzirrano word on the 30gb 5.5g?
03:03:34tonanyone no if thre is going to be a rockbox for creative zen vision m
03:03:59aliaskNot until someone starts working on it, and nobody has one at the moment, so it doesn't really look good.
03:04:19toni wonder y no1 is working on it
03:04:28aliaskLike I said, nobody has one.
03:05:07tonwhat can u do on the rock box?
03:07:29 Quit Criamos ("( :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: )")
03:08:06 Part jhMikeS
03:08:41tonk thanks for ur help i really hope so there is going to be a rock box
03:09:01aliaskNo worries.
03:09:18tondo u recon it would be made this year?
03:09:27SoapXerion - I believe that bug is not the Last.FM logger's fault.
03:09:42aliaskton: A timeframe is impossible to give
03:10:04toni got that version for creative zen i cant record fm now
03:10:16tonwhich is ashame
03:10:49tonk i g2g thanks again for ur help lets just hope someone makes a rock box
03:10:57Paul_the_Nerdton: Unless someone with a vision M actually *does* something, it'll be never done.
03:11:12Paul_the_NerdYou could always start learning to program
03:11:33toni dunno is there anywhere i could donate
03:11:35tonfor it
03:12:06aliaskYou can donate to rockbox, but you can't donate for a specific purpose (unless you donate a LOT)
03:12:15Paul_the_NerdDonations are general and tend to go toward hosting, and stuff like "replacing hardware that gets fried during the development process" like when Barry Wardell's player died while he was getting the H10 port going.
03:12:52Paul_the_NerdYou'd have to donate a lot to someone who was actually willing to do it. A lot of people see "donations as incentives toward a specific port" as an attempt to change this into "work"
03:13:22tonk thanks for the help
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03:15:56Soapaliask - how much is a LOT?
03:16:11aliaskWho knows? I'm just quoting Linus on that one...
03:16:31aliaskI'd think something like 6 months salary...
03:20:42 Join Yono [0] (
03:26:05Soapnet or gross?
03:26:29aliaskWhy, are you thinking of donating?
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03:26:44Soapfrom what I hear about European tax rates I might be able to swing net. ;)
03:29:44Soapbut seriously, someone here probably knows how much I have donated, and it's not enough to get any feature worked on, that's for sure.
03:30:04aliaskLet alone a whole port.
03:31:12aliaskI'm so curious as to how to get rockbox on a completely new system...
03:31:31aliaskBut I have a feeling it's WAY beyond me.
03:36:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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04:08:39 Quit dan_a_afk ()
04:20:26 Join Gaia777 [0] (i=c876502d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
04:21:00Gaia777how's 2nd generation nano progress???
04:21:06Paul_the_NerdThere isn't any
04:21:26Gaia777and what if you try rockbox on your 2nd nano??
04:21:32Paul_the_NerdIt won't work.
04:21:47Gaia777youre a developer or something??
04:22:12Paul_the_NerdOr I just happen to have read the forum thread where it was discovered that it has entirely different undocumented hardware and nobody's reverse engineered it yet.
04:22:49Gaia777but maybe some people can test their discoveries
04:23:18Paul_the_NerdWhat discoveries?
04:23:26 Join webguest59 [0] (i=864c0307@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
04:23:41Gaia777no im just saying...
04:24:05Gaia777the thing is that they don't know anything about the new firmware??
04:24:13Paul_the_NerdIt has nothing to do with the new firmware.
04:24:17Paul_the_NerdIt's the new hardware.
04:24:26Gaia777ahhh hardware
04:24:41Gaia777that dual processor i'm right??
04:24:48Gaia777its something like that
04:25:15Gaia777whats the difference??? nano and mini had different hardware
04:25:25scorcheand each had to be a different port
04:25:27Gaia777and nano 1st is hackable
04:25:29Paul_the_NerdIt's the fact that they moved from a PortalPlayer brand processor (that we still know little about) to a Samsung processor (that we know nothing at all about) with entirely new hardware for some of the other things (or all of them maybe) as well
04:25:44Paul_the_NerdAll earlier iPods used *very* similar processors.
04:26:17Gaia777ahhhh see..... so it's going to take too much??? it's that i bought it yesterday
04:26:17Soapi think the nano2g is using the same headphone jack.
04:26:17scorcheand this one uses *very* different hardware...not near just the processor
04:26:31scorchetoo much of what?
04:26:40Gaia777time or progress
04:26:55scorchewell, there never is "too much", but it will take time
04:27:08Paul_the_NerdIt also requires someone who owns one to actually do a lot of owrk
04:27:11Gaia777it maybe can be tomorrow or in one year
04:27:24Paul_the_NerdIt may be longer than a year. Or never.
04:27:25scorchewell, it wont be tomorrow ;)
04:28:02Gaia777in rockbox you can view videos right??
04:28:07Gaia777or is just on podzilla??
04:28:20scorcheyou can view videos...
04:29:06Gaia777and the rockbox team is actually working on the 2nd nano??
04:29:09Soapscorche - you are evil
04:29:19scorcheSoap: what?...its true!
04:29:33Paul_the_NerdGaia777: I don't know that anyone even *has* one to work on.
04:29:43scorchePaul_the_Nerd: linuxstb has one
04:29:48Soapscorche - I agree. You speak the truth.
04:29:49Paul_the_NerdOkay, so one person has one.
04:30:12Gaia777i have one too... the problem is that i dont know about hacking or c
04:30:35scorchethen either learn about it, or sit on the fence and wait =)
04:30:42sneakumsthe big problem is that nobody knows how the chip works
04:30:57scorchenobody willing to tell anyway...
04:31:07sneakumswell, yes.
04:31:10Gaia777and in the future how they'll now how the chip works??
04:31:15sneakumsclearly a black bag op at samsung headquarters is called for
04:31:46scorcheGaia777: i lost my crystal ball a couple months ago...
04:32:18Gaia777well thats sort of difficult
04:34:24Joelyohhh guess what everybody! i'm getting my jtag wiggler for arm7s soon! i ordered it this afternoon! so we'll connect it to the portalplayer and find interesting things ;)
04:34:53Joelyi know Badger already has one....
04:34:56Joelybut he wont share
04:35:30Joelyomg that's gonna get me killed
04:38:55 Quit carl (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:49:12scottderBadgers? BADGERS?? we don't need no steeking badgers! ;)
04:55:13 Join Burn [0] (i=cb333c73@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
04:56:05Burnhi does anyone how i get a new build onto my rockbox?
04:57:11 Join iRox [0] (i=473a5360@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
04:57:24iRoxhey is godrizza here?
04:57:33godzirraYeah, whats up?
04:57:39godzirraOnly kinda here so if I'm slow, sorry :)
04:57:43iRoxhey i was you posted your mbr.bin
04:57:53godzirraYes it was me that posted my mbr :)
04:58:00iRoxjw, does this contain the bootloader?
04:58:01webguest59Burn: just extract it to the root of your player.
04:58:16iRoxi don't really fully understand the mbr.bin
04:58:23godzirraiRox: If you dd the mbr to /dev/sdX then it will have the bootloader, y es.
04:58:43iRoxis this the "more stable" way of running rockbox?
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04:59:18Burnwebguest59: do i press yes to all when its says replace all the files?
04:59:27iRoxdo i need to use a seperate program or is it something that can be done by dragging and replacing the file?
04:59:41webguest59Burn: yes
05:00:02Burnok, how do u light up orange?
05:00:41Joelywebguest59! are you that guy that told me that the h10 had a jtag port??
05:00:42godzirraiRox: This is the way that you have to use mtools to copy
05:00:45godzirrabut it is stable.
05:00:46webguest59it happen automatically in the webclient when the message contains your nick
05:00:57 Quit Burn ("CGI:IRC")
05:01:11iRoxwill this involve formatting my ipod?
05:01:13 Join Burn [0] (i=cb333c73@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
05:01:18webguest59Joley: no, i'm someone else
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05:04:38 Quit Burn (Client Quit)
05:04:51iRoxgodzirra, if i boot into linux, all i would have to do is use mtools to use the hexed mbr.bin and thats it, copy the rockbox build to the root and im done?
05:05:08iRoxlol sorry and another question, would my ipod be accessible in windows
05:05:11godzirraiRox: Sort of.
05:05:16godzirrait wouldnt be
05:05:25iRoxi mean it should be fat 32 partition tho?
05:05:28godzirrayou would have to use mtools to copy stuff until someone figures out the solution
05:05:33godzirraIt doesnt work quite like that
05:05:36godzirraI cant explain it well t hough :
05:05:44iRoxo ok thanks
05:05:51iRoxim gonna look on google for a ported mtools
05:06:03iRox(this is reversable, right?)
05:06:11 Quit amiconn (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
05:06:12 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
05:06:18iRoxor will i never be able to use itunes to restore it, sorry im just being cautious
05:06:26godzirrayou can restore it same as normal :)
05:06:40iRoxalrighty then im gonna mess around
05:06:41godzirrato my knowledge, nothing you do with the software/firmware is going to be nonreversible.
05:06:55iRoxthanks for the info
05:07:30godzirrasure thing :)
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05:13:39 Quit |AhIoRoS| ("Abandonando, see you")
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05:23:41godzirraanyone? :)
05:26:50Paul_the_NerdWhat's the question again?
05:28:18godzirrawrong channel :)
05:28:21godzirrahence why you're confused.. heh
05:36:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:44:27iRoxhaha hey godzirra, you feel like helping me get started with mtools?
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06:13:05 Quit iRox ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
06:13:33godzirradamn he left
06:18:32 Join Davide-NYC [0] (
06:20:58Davide-NYCanyone getting errors on Make Sim?
06:23:47Davide-NYCOK god noght
06:23:58Davide-NYCback in maybe 24 hours
06:24:04 Quit Davide-NYC ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox]")
06:25:47 Join Davide-NYC [0] (
06:26:24Davide-NYCI can;t stay but wanted to let the devs know that the H1x0 build do not compile for me.
06:26:47Davide-NYCCC debug_menu.c
06:26:49Davide-NYCdebug_menu.c: In function `dbg_audio_thread':
06:26:50Davide-NYCdebug_menu.c:332: error: `filebufused' undeclared (first use in this function)
06:26:52Davide-NYCdebug_menu.c:332: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
06:26:53Davide-NYCdebug_menu.c:332: error: for each function it appears in.)
06:26:55Davide-NYCdebug_menu.c:333: error: syntax error before '==' token
06:26:56Davide-NYCmake[1]: *** [/home/user/rockbox-devel/sim.H1x0/apps/debug_menu.o] Error 1
06:26:58Davide-NYCmake: *** [all] Error 2
06:27:41Paul_the_NerdAnd you've made no modifications and are doing a normal build?
06:27:47Paul_the_NerdBecause the CVS build is fine.
06:28:24Davide-NYCI had a modified debug_menu.c file, but I updated it using cvs up -C debug_menu.c
06:28:37Davide-NYCI have now deleted it and am doing a cvs up -dP
06:28:46Davide-NYC(deleted just debug_menu.c
06:30:26Davide-NYCOh Paul, me thinks it works now
06:31:05*Davide-NYC duck
06:31:14*Davide-NYC shamed
06:32:51Davide-NYC'night all
06:32:55 Quit Davide-NYC ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox]")
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07:00:59 Join yipe [0] (
07:01:15yipehello everybody
07:02:38yipeI'm new to rockbox, and I've looked over the FAQs etc, and can't find this particular piece of info, so please for give me if this is an annoying question
07:03:30yipesince installing rockbox, everytime I plug in the USB cable on my ipod, it mounts my ipod as read-only (I'm on Ubuntu Linux btw)
07:04:14yipeI try to use chown and chmod so I can alter the ipod's drive, but it refuses to allow it
07:05:30BigMacwhat happened to the zx spectrum viewer?
07:18:41BigMacwait is zxbox integrated in the source?
07:20:55 Quit yipe (Remote closed the connection)
07:25:29BHSPitMonkeymost things are
07:28:50BigMacI hate compiling
07:29:06BigMacit always asks me which file to patch
07:29:10BigMacand I have no idea
07:29:38BHSPitMonkeywhy do you have to compile
07:30:12BigMacbecause there are some patches not intergrated in the source which I find necessary
07:30:32BigMacThe flyspray doesn't tell me which file to patch either
07:30:41BHSPitMonkeywell, it's your prerogative to use those things
07:30:52Paul_the_NerdThe patches include the filenames of the file to patch in them
07:30:56 Quit BHSPitMonkey ("Leaving")
07:31:00Paul_the_NerdIn fact if you apply them from the right place, they'll do it automatically
07:31:45BigMacI'm applying it from rockbox-devel like the guide told me
07:32:02BigMacand It keeps asking for the file to patch
07:32:13Paul_the_NerdIt depends on where they made the patch from.
07:32:23 Join BHSPitMonkey [0] (
07:32:25BigMacthat is the patch
07:32:26Paul_the_NerdBut even when it asks for what file to patch, it should *tell* you what file to patch on the screen.
07:32:38BigMacthere are only 2 I need to patch
07:32:44BigMacI'll check the screen
07:32:50Paul_the_NerdYou consider *that* one "Necessary" to use Rockbox?
07:33:02BigMacthat one?
07:33:11BigMacI want to test it
07:33:17BigMacthe other I find necessary
07:33:32BigMacit fixes flac searching problems on the 5g
07:34:27BigMacyah I don't see any specific file
07:34:37JoelyBigMac, for that you need to patch from outside the directory
07:34:47Joelyi think
07:34:47BigMacthere are like 50 directories
07:34:55BigMacco cd..
07:34:55Joelyso cd ../
07:35:05BigMacwill do
07:35:23Joelydid it work?
07:35:44BigMacwe'll find out
07:36:05Joelyand is your directory entitled rockbox-devel-gfxmenuplugin ?
07:36:15Joelyit should be
07:36:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:36:25Paul_the_NerdWell he could use the -p to strip levels
07:36:35BigMacI should make a new directory for it?
07:36:39BigMacand one hunk failed
07:36:45BigMacand one succeded
07:36:50Paul_the_NerdSo it's outdated
07:37:03BigMacaww ok
07:37:15BigMacis there anyway to remove the patch now?
07:37:26Joelyit's not
07:37:29Joelyhold on
07:37:34Joelythe diff is messed up
07:37:59Joelyrename your directory to rockbox-devel-gfxmenuplugin
07:38:11Joelyand then apply the patch
07:38:11BigMacso not my fault completly
07:38:27Paul_the_NerdJoely: Why would one hunk fail and one succeed if it's merely a pathing issue? Shouldn't it report that it couldn't find the file to patch?
07:38:34BigMacbut that won't effect my other patch right?
07:38:48JoelyPaul, because one line reads like this...
07:38:52Joely−−- rockbox-devel/apps/plugins/SOURCES2006-04-16 20:16:17.000000000 -0600
07:38:53Joely+++ rockbox-devel-gfxmenuplugin/apps/plugins/SOURCES2006-04-25
07:39:16BigMacok and i still patch from outside the directory?
07:39:30Paul_the_NerdJoely: Fair enough. It's still a six month old patch.
07:40:20Joelywell then
07:40:21BigMacPatch previously applied
07:40:30Joelyoh then there you go
07:40:32BigMacAssume _r
07:40:41Joelyit's been updated
07:40:56BigMacso what do i type?
07:41:09Joelywhat are you trying to do with a six month old patch?
07:41:16Joelysorry i came into this a little late
07:41:24BigMacpatch the cvs:)
07:41:24Joelyprobably shouldn't have jumped in at all ><
07:42:08 Part Paul_the_Nerd
07:42:14Joelyoh no!
07:42:18Joelyhe left :(
07:42:35Joelyi hope i didn't hurt his feelings
07:46:32BigMacanyway i can start with a clean source?
07:46:55Joelycheck it out again...
07:48:01BigMaccheck out what?
07:48:10Joelyoh wait
07:48:14Joelydid you code something?
07:48:27BigMacno just patching the source
07:48:34BigMacand only one patch worked
07:49:00BigMacall the other hunks only get like 2:7
07:49:05BigMacso i just want a clean
07:49:28Joelyrecheck it out
07:50:51hcsis there any general file search functionality in rockbox? if I'm looking for a file with something in the name?
07:51:15Joelyhow would you input it?
07:51:28hcssame way you input any text...
07:51:30Joelysorry if i'm being stupid....
07:51:37 Part Jack
07:51:46Joelyhuh? you don't on an mp3 player...
07:52:01scorchethere is a virtual keyboard that we use
07:52:10Joelythat's so cool
07:52:17scorchelooks like someone hasnt read the manual ;0
07:52:19BHSPitMonkeyit's actually quite tedious
07:52:36BHSPitMonkeyiPL has a nice spread of TI methods
07:52:59midkay_which are all quite tedious.
07:53:27Joelymaybe you guys should make a voice recognition module :-D
07:53:38Joelylet me check the manual first
07:53:43Joelymaybe it's already there...
07:54:00hcsanyway, I repose my question, any file name searching outside of the tagcache?
07:54:21midkay_um.. isn't there like a search.rock?
07:54:43midkay_i don't remember any such thing working very effectively though.. or even doing general filesearching at all.
07:54:51hcsnot in my install
07:55:02hcswhich is full, I think
07:55:09scorchethere is always the playlist search function
07:55:21BHSPitMonkeyis this only a topic because it's in apple's new firmware
07:55:23scorcheload everything into a playlist and search
07:55:46hcsah, didn't know there was a playlist search fcn
07:56:03hcsthanks, that'll do nicely
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08:04:22BigMacdo I type anything after make
08:04:31BigMacit keeps telling me it is missing something
08:04:42BigMacbut the tutorial said just type make
08:05:34midkay_uh. so... why are you reading the tutorial.. if you're not gonna follow it?
08:05:36hcswhat does it tell you you are missing?
08:06:02midkay_a tutorial describes what you need to do, it doesn't say some of the things you might want to do and go ask for the rest on IRC. follow the instructions and if you have a problem, go ahead and ask it.
08:06:31aliaskmidkay_: The database search was only for the old tagcache
08:06:37BigMacI did have a problem
08:06:40BigMacand did ask it
08:06:57 Quit rotator ("zzzzzzzzzz")
08:06:58midkay_aliask: it didn't work for me, so i assumed that. why's it in cvs? and are you talking about databox?
08:07:26aliaskYes, databox... I dunno why it hasn't been removed (maybe to remind people to adapt it for the new version of TC)
08:08:26BigMaceh i give
08:08:40BigMacI'll wait until they put the patch into the cvs
08:08:44BigMacit should already be there
08:08:58scorcheif it should be, it would be
08:09:23BigMacDo you own an ipod?
08:09:36scorchei do
08:09:42BigMacsearching through a flac file on it is horrible
08:10:08scorchewhining to me about it will not help it get into CVS
08:10:10BigMacyou skim to lets say 2:30 and it picks up playing at say 1:50
08:10:25BigMacI'm just telling you your wrong
08:10:34scorchein your opinion
08:10:42BigMacit fixes the problem and should therefore be there
08:11:18scorchejust because the current implementation is flawed, doesnt mean that a patch for it is right
08:11:58scorchean example of this would be the issue with the 4gs and crashing
08:12:02scorchethere is a patch for it
08:13:30scorchethere are reasons for it not being in CVS
08:13:42scorchesame as there may be reasons why that patch is not in
08:14:07 Join _jhMikeS_ [0] (
08:14:42scorchewhether it is just that it is awaiting a dev to look at it, or not
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08:24:30*Kalthare grumps
08:27:29aliaskWhat's the matter you?
08:28:00KalthareBug-hunting. Isn't going well.
08:28:20aliaskAnd there's nothing more fun than a bug you just can't kill.
08:28:54KalthareI've actually found and fixed two bugs, but neither of them were causing the crash I'm having.
08:28:55aliaskIs this more 5.5g madness?
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08:30:35KalthareWill be if it works. I'm starting to worry that this might be some kind of complicated race condition that's being triggered by the fact that minor accesses are transferring four times as much data as formerly.
08:32:26aliaskCould you just put some sleep()'s or udelay()'s in there to space it out and weed it out?
08:34:16KalthareIt freezes partway thru the loop in copy_read_sectors() in ata.c .. I've no idea why it would do that.
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08:42:46aliaskiPod use the C version, not ASM right?
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08:48:36aliaskWhat does taking it out of IRAM do?
08:50:19KalthareFaster, I suppose. I'm not sure it applies to the iPod.
08:51:29aliaskDamn, I wish I had a 5.5g to play with...
08:52:55KalthareAt this point I'm wishing I had a 5g. I wasn't actually looking for an interesting hacking project when I got this thing.
08:53:47daurnimatorhi Kalthare
08:53:57daurnimatoryour the one wqorking on 5.5g?
08:54:01Kalthareyeah, that's me.
08:54:39Kaltharelucky, lucky me.
08:55:00daurnimatori'm thinking of buying one... but for the 80gb hdd
08:55:32Kaltharethe 80GB isn't working at all right now −− some sort of ATA problem.
08:56:44 Quit Joely (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
08:56:53KalthareIt won't even read the partition table. As far as I know, nobody's found out why yet.
08:57:18daurnimatorhas anyone here got/seen both 5mm & 8mm hdds?
08:57:39Paul_the_NerdI've seen them briefly, why?
08:58:28daurnimatorwhich way are they bulkier? (compared to connector)
08:58:35daurnimatortowards label size
08:58:46daurnimatorother side
08:58:47daurnimatoror evenly?
09:00:10Paul_the_NerdIf I recall it was toward the label side, but I'm honestly not terribly sure.
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09:02:03daurnimatori'm not sure if i can squeeze one in or not
09:02:13Paul_the_NerdIn a what?
09:02:24daurnimatorarhos gmini 402
09:06:21Paul_the_NerdIt's got a single platter in it initially?
09:09:07daurnimatorbut 20gb doesn't cut it
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09:13:41sneakumslast time i looked into putting a new drive into my h120, the biggest single-platter drives were 30G, which isn't really worth the time and money
09:14:03daurnimatorbiggest retail single is 30gb
09:14:36daurnimatorthough 40gb supposedly came out same time as 80gb - none hav e been seen
09:14:45sneakumsre size, if you can find the spec sheets for the drives your considering they might have drawings in them
09:14:49sneakumser, you're
09:17:34sneakumsthere are drawings in the sheet for the 80G toshiba, but i can't quite parse them
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09:18:15sneakumsi think the extra thickness is on the label side for this one though
09:18:53KalthareWell, I'm out of ideas again.
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09:33:39KalthareThe main thing I don't understand is why Apple did this in the first place. They must've gone through this same crap with their firmware −− toward what purpose?
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09:34:15Larsiemaybe it was cheaper?
09:34:30scorchecompanies like apple dont realize that firmwares like rockbox can turn people to buy their product
09:34:49scorcheand instead focus on them losing control
09:34:59Larsiewell, even if they did, we're only a small part of the buyers ;)
09:35:02Paul_the_Nerdscorche: Well there is the belief that we increase their support costs
09:35:19scorcheah...that too
09:35:37KalthareI don't think this is an anti-third-party measure. It's not a very effective one.
09:35:58scorchebut then they just go the iriver route and deny claims that are anything even close to rockbox cause failures
09:36:05Paul_the_NerdKalthare: Well it seems to have made it more difficult, at no real cost to their software's effectiveness.
09:36:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:36:58KaltharePaul_the_Nerd: For us, yes, but this should barely be any obstacle at all to iPod Linux.
09:37:26Paul_the_NerdKalthare: Wouldn't they still have problems getting their bootloader started?
09:37:28LarsieBut with the 80GB version, does it also use a different firmware or is it just included in all firmwares (sorry i'm ipod noob)
09:38:22KaltharePaul_the_Nerd: Does their bootloader use Linux's FAT driver?
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09:38:37KalthareLarsie: I think they've traditionally put out a different binary for every model.
09:38:45Paul_the_NerdKalthare: I honestly don't know. It supports HFS+, so it might.
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09:39:26Paul_the_NerdKalthare: Either way, I think Rockbox has been more noted than iPodLinux. Notice that Apple *finally* did gapless playback after we showed up with it, and they showed up with a game list suspiciously reminiscent of ours.
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09:41:19Larsiegehe, they said the 'old' generation wasn't powerfull enough or something like that
09:42:06Paul_the_NerdI wonder if there is some hardware differences, since the 5.5g gets the Search feature, and the 5 doesn't. I mean, is Apple just lying outright?
09:42:24Larsiebut afaik they are the only brand producing DAP's with gapless in the stockfirmware
09:42:49Paul_the_NerdLarsie: The Rio Karma had gapless ages ago, I believe. Or some other player.
09:42:57Larsiea ok
09:43:01KalthareYeah, it was the Karma.
09:43:18Larsiebut it's out of production
09:43:22Paul_the_NerdGapless doesn't really require any particularly powerful processor.
09:43:27Larsieso not a real option :P
09:44:04Larsieoff-course not, it's just loading the data of the next song in the buffer like nothing happend
09:44:08Larsiewell not that easy
09:44:25KalthareActually, I wound up caught in the middle of this whole Rockbox/5.5 thing because my Karma's battery swelled up and crushed the hard drive.
09:45:03KalthareApparently EVERY Karma is doing this. So even used ones aren't really an option at this point.
09:45:12LarsieI know how you feel, my iriver H320 died because someone dropped it :(
09:45:18KalthareAnyway, you know what? Apple's gapless playback? SUCKS.
09:45:20Larsienow I have a Sansa e250
09:45:23 Quit BHSPitMonkey (Remote closed the connection)
09:45:30Paul_the_NerdThat's because Apple Gapless is faked right?
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09:45:52Paul_the_NerdThey try to detect trailing gaps, rather than just playing the true track length?
09:46:27Larsiethat's more like cross-fading
09:46:32KalthareI've heard about that, but what I'm referring to is the fact that it fails to gapless at least as often as it succeeds.
09:46:49amiconnThe old archos DAPs all did proper gapless
09:46:56Paul_the_NerdIf it can "fail" then it's definitely trying to detect *something*
09:47:36aliaskCould just be a buffering inadequacy
09:48:03Paul_the_NerdI guess it depends what the failures are like
09:49:21KalthareI think it's a little from column A, and a little from column B.
09:49:29*Paul_the_Nerd shrugs
09:49:35Larsiehmmz, is it just me or is the Cygwin environment a lot less cpu intensive
09:49:40aliaskWell, at least they tried.
09:49:59Paul_the_NerdI think maybe the problem is they don't really understand what people want in "gapless"
09:50:14Paul_the_NerdBecause "gapless" is a misleading term, since it sounds like it means "no gaps, ever"
09:50:46Larsieyeah but silence is not a gap
09:50:54Larsiein a song at least
09:51:07Paul_the_NerdBut a lot of people don't catch that.
09:51:24daurnimatorboom boom karma?
09:52:02KalthareI think it understands LAME gapless tags, incidentally.
09:52:14Paul_the_NerdThat's good
09:52:32daurnimatorLAME gapless tags? wtf are they
09:53:37KalthareLAME is an MP3 encoder.. and it can tag files with info for properly gapkilling them
09:54:25Larsiebut that's not real gapless too, because it just cuts the last parts of songs, right?
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09:55:01Larsieit sounds kind of pointless, you could better just cut off the silence, saves a few KB :P
09:55:50KalthareThe problem is that MP3s end on a frame boundary, rather than the actual exact time the original track ended. That's why gapkilling is an interesting problem.
09:56:10KalthareLAME puts a tag in there that says, to players that understand it, where in the last frame the track is _supposed_ to end.
09:56:40daurnimatordo other formats have the same thing, or is it not an issue?
09:56:53amiconnA DAP should both never add silence samples where they don't belong, nor remove any such samples if they belong to the track. That's proper gapless, everything else is faking, imho
09:57:40KalthareThe problem is that with MP3 it can be hard to know which silence samples are supposed to be there.
09:58:11KalthareOgg has official gapkill support. Other formats, I don't know.
09:58:23amiconnThe LAME tag is sort of an extension to the mp3 format. Mp3 data comes in frames of constant length. The lame tag tells the decoder where in the last farme the track really ends
09:59:33amiconnIt is possible to have true gapless with mp3 and without LAME tag support, but then the tracklengths of an album need to be adjusted a tiny bit (a few milliseconds) in order to make the tracks end on a frame boundary
10:00:37KalthareThough there's still the risk that a gapkiller will assume that silence should be removed.
10:01:02amiconnProper gapless never needs a 'gapkiller'
10:01:32KalthareWe were discussing Apple's implementation of such, originally.
10:01:39amiconnApart from that, it is _not possible_ that a part of an mp3 frame is true silence, while another part of the same frame is not
10:01:58amiconn...because of how mp3 works
10:02:07 Quit BHSPitMonkey (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
10:02:43daurnimatorwell, anyway
10:02:54daurnimatori'm in a predicament
10:03:09daurnimatordo i upgrade hdd or buy a new player?
10:03:25Kalthareamiconn: This is changing the subject, but is it possible there's a race condition in the ATA code that would occur because small accesses are pulling 4 sectors instead of 1?
10:06:38Larsiedaurnimator: depends on how much you want to spen
10:06:50daurnimatoras little as possible
10:07:01Larsiethen I would go for a HD
10:07:16Larsieor, a secondhanded DAP
10:07:21daurnimatorbut, theres the risk it won't fit in my player
10:07:39daurnimatori would get a secondhand dap, if you could point me to nice ones
10:07:53LarsieH340, Iaudio X5
10:08:18Larsie80GB HDD's fit into the iriver H340
10:08:28Larsiei'm not sure of the X5
10:09:15daurnimatori want 60gb+
10:09:17LarsieH140 is also an option, but they're expensive, even second hand
10:09:38LarsieH340 are quite cheap
10:10:01Larsiefor around 150 euro's you can get one in good condition
10:10:29Larsiethen you only need to buy a 80GB HD which cost's about as much as the whole DAP :P
10:10:42Larsiebut you could sell your old DAP, right?
10:11:12Larsieand you could sell the old HD
10:11:48LarsieI was planning on buying a second DAP
10:12:21daurnimatorcan't sell old dap
10:12:44scorchedaurnimator: if you want space, and want it cheap, there are always the archos recorders =)
10:13:00daurnimatori want to fit it in my pocket
10:13:10daurnimatorno larger than H340 if possible
10:13:16scorchewear cargo pants
10:13:29amiconnKalthare: I doubt that. The ata code uses a mutex to serialise accesses
10:13:35Larsieor buy a hammer >:)
10:13:39daurnimatorscorche: then i'd have to buy pants - which costs lots
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10:14:12scorchehonestly, yeah they are pretty big, but it still fits in any of my pockets
10:14:31 Part Paul_the_Nerd
10:14:46LarsieI'll check how much they cost here (the Netherlands)
10:15:01scorcheyou are going to have to get one on ebay
10:15:15Larsieyeah I know
10:15:51daurnimatoriaudios are expensive
10:15:57Larsiejukebox 20 for 100 euro;s
10:16:03Larsieyeah I know
10:16:24Larsiebut they're the only truly good DAP's at the moment imho
10:16:28amiconnKalthare: Do we know for sure whether the cpu in the 5.5g is really the same as in the 5g (PP5021), i.e. did someone open a 5.5g and check?
10:16:42Larsieshame the H320/H340 is out of production
10:16:48amiconnLarsie: player or recorder?
10:17:00Larsieno clue :P
10:17:00scorcheif you are decent at soldering, there is a very good chance that broken ones are an easy fix
10:17:16daurnimatorwell, how much is a 80gb hdd?
10:17:26scorchewhat type?
10:18:06LarsieI'm used to soldering
10:18:11Larsienot very good at it
10:18:18amiconnIt quite some difference. Archos recorder 20 has USB2.0, the models with less capacity only have USB1.1. Archos Player/Studio is always USB1.1 only.
10:18:32Larsieit's the studio
10:18:40scorcheamiconn: not necessarily
10:18:43daurnimatorarchos made awesome plaeyrs till this year
10:18:53Larsiei'll look for some broken ones :)
10:19:01amiconnIn addition, the USB1.1 bridge isn't fully mass storage compatible so it requires special drivers
10:19:10scorcherecorders < 20 arent always 1.1
10:19:21Larsieok thanks for the tip :)
10:19:41scorchesee my note in DeviceChart
10:20:20amiconnYes, there's rumour that some recorder 15 's are usb2.0 too,
10:20:28scorcheit isnt a rumor
10:20:29scorchei have one
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10:21:02scorcheand i have 2 other 15s that arent ;)
10:21:11daurnimatornew player: $230
10:21:13amiconnI only knew of people who relied on a recorder 15 being USB2.0, and were unlucky
10:21:19daurnimator80gb hdd: $280
10:21:20Larsieand what's the sound like on archos recorders?
10:21:35Larsiecomparable to Iaudio X5/iriver H320
10:21:42scorchequite good
10:21:45amiconnBetter, definitely
10:21:53amiconnAt least better than iriver
10:21:59scorcheamiconn: as I say in the note, there are visual differences on the case
10:22:06amiconnThe only drawback is that they are mp2/mp3 only
10:22:21Larsieyeah, HW decoding :(
10:22:25scorchewell, there is a wav viewer, but not full functionality
10:22:27amiconnBut with rockbox, you can also play wav
10:22:37amiconnNot in the core yet, but that is planned
10:22:49daurnimatoris there any1 here that wants to work on a new target?
10:22:58daurnimatorno fact finding missions needed
10:23:05daurnimatori have all the info - hw addr etc
10:23:15daurnimatorjust.. no time to do the port
10:23:23scorchedaurnimator: it is very hard when you dont have the actual device...
10:23:33amiconn[10:21:59] <scorche> amiconn: as I say in the note, there are visual differences on the case <= yes I know
10:23:43Kalthareamiconn: I have no idea...
10:23:46Larsiewell, if you're volunteering, help the sansa e200 series :P
10:24:10Joelyyeah yeah! sansa e200!!! that's fun :)
10:24:11amiconnKalthare: Well, someone should do that.
10:24:41*amiconn opened his mini2g less than a day after he got it
10:24:58KalthareI suppose there's no way to identify it from software?
10:25:39daurnimatoramiconn: someone checked
10:25:43Larsiearchos jukebox studio 10 for just 20 euro's
10:25:45daurnimatorsaw it in a review
10:25:56KalthareI'm.. hesitant. I'm already worried I'm sacrificing my iPod to the cause, with all that debugging output I put in the copy_read_sectors() loop
10:26:03scorcheLarsie: you do not want the studios....recorders are the ones
10:27:02Larsieeven not for 20 euro's ?
10:27:19scorchewell...they have a charcell display
10:27:22scorche2 lines
10:27:33scorcheamong other differences...
10:27:36Larsiebut the sound quality?
10:27:38*amiconn actually prefers the studio over the recorder for in-car use
10:28:02scorchei still would rather have the can always change the font
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10:29:11amiconnscorche: It's not the font (I am using a quite biig font when I'm using any of my bitmapped daps in the car). The buttons are fewer and larger, so they're easier to operate without looking at the device (with the voice ui)
10:29:49Injectiondoes anyone no if there is going to be a rockbox for creative zen vision m
10:29:49scorcheamiconn: to each, his own =)
10:29:53amiconnLarsie: Sound quality is about equal, as long as it's not one of the early player models, which had a distinct lack of bass
10:30:28Larsiety, I'll probably just use it with my amp at home
10:30:39amiconnAnd the player/studio hardware has less options to adjust the sound. Just volume, balance, treble, bass
10:30:43Larsieso I don't need any fancy features
10:30:53Injectioncould anyone work on trying to put rockbox on creative zen vision m
10:31:20amiconnYeah, then the player/studio has a separate line out which can be useful when connecting it to a stereo
10:31:25daurnimatorInjection: well, someone with hw details needs to provide info first
10:31:32LarsieInjection, I don't think so, creative uses TI chips which are undocumented and no compilers avalable
10:31:47amiconnUnlike the iriver h1x0/h300, this is a true line out with constant level
10:31:52daurnimatorLarsie: which chip?
10:32:03Injectionso its not going to happen?
10:32:10Larsiecpu at least
10:32:18LarsieTexas Instruments
10:32:22daurnimatorInjection: it happens when a person is dedicated to the cause
10:32:26daurnimatorLarsie: WHICH chipset?
10:32:32KalthareI'm looking at an image of the inside of an iPod 5.5G.. I see the Broadcom chip, but I can't identify the PP chip..
10:32:35amiconnKalthare: This is actually my mini2g: :)
10:32:40LarsieI don't know exactly
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10:32:46KalthareI don't know if it's even in the pic..
10:32:52Larsiebut TI is closed, right?
10:32:56amiconnKalthare: link?
10:33:07daurnimatorLarsie: depends on the chip
10:33:09Injectiondam who could i ask if they could make one because im willingto pay alot
10:33:49amiconnUpper left corner..
10:33:51daurnimatoreg, my device has a dm320 - the main processor is a plain old ARM9 - there is a gcc port, but it has a c54xx DSP that is closed
10:34:08KalthareOhh. Right.
10:34:11amiconnSo it's indeed the same as in the old 5g
10:34:45daurnimatornoone listens to me - do they
10:34:53Injectionso does anyone no who could i ppay?
10:35:34Joelyyou could buy the `rights' to the proprietary toolchain for the ti dsp
10:35:48KalthareAnyway, it's crashing mid-loop in copy_read_sectors() on a group of 4 sectors which it had already read successfully many times. I am at an utter loss.
10:36:05amiconnKalthare: the ata interface is part of the PP, so we have 2 mysteries to solve iiuc: (1) why does it hang _occasionally_ on the 30GB model with the 2K sector patch? (2) why does it hang completely on the 80GB model?
10:36:37Kalthareamiconn: I've heard that on the 80GB it actually returns an error code..
10:36:40sneakumsamiconn: i wouldn't call the 80G situation a hang as such, since it gets through the read
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10:36:54sneakumsbut status is set to STATUS_ERR
10:37:07sneakumsi posted everything i learned (which isn't much) to rockbox-dev
10:37:18amiconndaurnimator: Yes, the problem is that the dsp part is closed. When the audio hardware is attached to the dsp part, data has to go through the dsp in order to play and record
10:38:12Larsiebut isn't it then possible to let some kind of 'sniffer' run alongside the original FW and find out how it works?
10:38:22 Quit aliask ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox]")
10:38:36sneakumsi was thinking of dumping the identify info the drive returns, perhaps the drive has some quirk or other that needs to be accounted for
10:39:54amiconnLarsie: Perhaps. But that won't help much, at least with the older incarnations of the ti chip
10:40:11sneakumsi did try sticking usleeps in various places in the ATA code in case it was a timing problem, but no dice of course
10:40:39amiconnThere is a reason why there is a dsp part - the arm core isn't powerful enough to do all decoding related tasks
10:42:26KalthareThe thing is, it's quite a reliable hang. It always hangs after starting playback, reading the /.rockbox directory, called from update_short_entry() to write the new filesize while closing the .playlist.whatever file.
10:42:29Injectionlol i just tried putting that rockbox-2.5-install.exe on my zen but didnt work
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10:46:44*amiconn wonders whether mtools is capable of creating a partition with 2K virtual sectors on an usb drive which is presented with native 512 byte sectors to the pc
10:47:00amiconnThen the 2K sector patch could be tested on any rockboxable dap
10:47:02daurnimatoramiconn: surely just getting the gui going first would be ok, there are ways to get audio output
10:47:37Kalthareamiconn: Sure, it can do that.
10:48:02Kalthareamiconn: You could most likely even access it from the normal fs driver.
10:48:35*amiconn has an extra 2.5" disk laying around that he could swap into his player or recorder without deleting anything from the 'normal' disk
10:48:42KalthareThe version of the patch that's currently up has a nasty write bug, tho.
10:49:10amiconnKalthare: Why do you think it would work this way round when the other situation doesn't work?
10:49:51amiconnHmm, it would be even simpler to use the fat test code :)
10:50:02Kalthareamiconn: Because the error Linux gave me when I tried it the other way around was that the virtual sector size wasn't a multiple of the physical sector size.
10:50:13fulhacktigheer woods
10:50:16fulhackjust cause
10:50:28KalthareWhich is why I figure iPod Linux probably already works.
10:51:01amiconniPo linux uses the linux fat driver. Rockbox has its own, very lightweight fat driver
10:51:08fulhackOh, damn. wrong window. Sorry guys.
10:51:12KalthareWell, exactly.
10:51:20amiconnWe didn't have to deal with unusual sector sizes so far
10:52:04amiconnDid you have a look at firmware/test/fat/ ?
10:52:13KalthareNo, I didn't. What's it do?
10:52:33amiconnThis is old fat driver test code which runs as a plain commandline program
10:52:42KalthareHm, cool.
10:52:45amiconn...simulating the partition within a file
10:54:00KalthareHmmmm... it still doesn't write the tag cache, either.
10:54:02amiconnIt was again helpful ~1.5 years ago when debugging fat16 support
10:54:26KalthareI'll certainly look into it. Thank you.
10:55:39daurnimatorso, uh, could someone do or at least help me with a port?
10:56:14Larsiewhich port?
10:56:23daurnimatorarchos gmini 40
10:56:36Larsiethe one with the camera?
10:56:47*Kalthare turns on dircache, on a lark. Watches it crash the same way again. Turns it off.
10:57:20Larsiewhy the 402?
10:57:24daurnimatortheres a camera, and a noncamera model
10:57:41Larsiewould be cool
10:57:42daurnimatorLarsie: cause i own it, and its a very awesome player
10:58:13LarsieI would like to help but I don't think I can
10:58:18daurnimatorthe 2 problems i have with it: only 20gb hdd, no ogg playback
10:58:26daurnimatorrockbox can fix 1
10:58:30LarsieI'm unexperienced and I don't have the player
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10:59:40daurnimatorthe noncamera:
10:59:49KalthareWell, I'll certainly do my best to get firmware/test/fat/ working. Bringing gdb in on this would make my life SO many times easier.
11:00:04daurnimatorthats the camera
11:00:14daurnimatorthe non camera:
11:00:18Larsieyeah I know them
11:00:41LarsieI have had one to play with in a shop a long time ago
11:00:57LarsieI didn't understand the menu
11:01:05Larsiebut that doesn't matter
11:01:46Larsiebut you can load 3rd party plugins on the gmini 402?
11:01:54daurnimatorpretty simple ... dpad to choose an option out of the nine - then dpad to choose the file to play
11:02:22LarsieI think it was a faulty player, because we couldn't switch it off either
11:02:32daurnimatorhold off for 3 seconds
11:02:35Larsiewe did
11:02:48Larsietried that at least 5 times
11:02:50daurnimatorwell, theres an exploit
11:03:14Larsiebut rockbox would be nicer off-course
11:03:31daurnimatori run medios through it
11:04:07daurnimatori bootloader would be nice
11:04:14daurnimatorbut... i don't want to risk bricking
11:04:28Larsieis there a JTAG or ICE interface?
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11:06:09LarsieI can't find any pics of the inside
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11:06:26Larsieso you'd at least have to open it
11:07:52daurnimatori have
11:07:54daurnimatormany times
11:08:12Larsiewhat kind of cpu does it have?
11:08:27daurnimatorbut, cpu is ARM9
11:08:50Larsiedm320 is open?
11:08:57Larsieor not?
11:09:30daurnimatorcpu is open
11:09:33daurnimatordsp is closed
11:09:42daurnimatorbut, don't worry about the dsp side of things
11:09:47Larsieow ok
11:09:53daurnimatori have ways to get around it
11:10:17Larsiewell start decompiling then :)
11:10:35Larsiereverse engineering
11:10:43daurnimatorwhat? and why
11:10:51Larsieto find out more things
11:10:57Larsieabout lcd and stuff
11:12:03daurnimatorwe already have access to detailks
11:12:24LarsieI can't find it
11:13:09LarsieBTW, any sansa e200 owners in here?
11:13:16Joelyyup yup! me!
11:13:22LarsieThe new firmware update is brilijant
11:13:35LarsieEQ sounds so much better
11:13:57Larsiehave you tried it?
11:14:41daurnimatorLarsie: do you want an example of a sort of hello world program?
11:15:11Joelynope, not yet....only thing i did with it today was take it apart again, try to figure out the spacing of the jtag pads and then ordered my arm jtag wiggler
11:15:29Larsiedaurnimator: so, you're saying you can already compile and display things
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11:15:57Larsiewell, then the rockboxport should be easy, shouldn't it?
11:16:06daurnimatorthats what i'm saying
11:16:14daurnimatorbut i don't have the time
11:16:21Larsieis there a page with specs about that?
11:16:43daurnimatornot really
11:17:08*Joely is confused...
11:17:56daurnimatorhello world type devkit:
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11:18:48LarsieJoely: I have no experience with JTAG, I'm reading myself about it at the moment :P
11:25:21daurnimatorany1 willing to do an "easy", "quick" port?
11:26:03Joelyif i got one!
11:26:11Joelyhmm how much do they cost?
11:26:23daurnimatorbout $220 new
11:26:28amiconnRockbox ports aren neither easy nor quick, even if much of the hardware is already known
11:26:29daurnimator(if you shop around)
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11:27:04daurnimatoramiconn: people have told me it would be those things - thats why they're in quotes ;)
11:28:30daurnimatorJoely: you can find them from $150 second hand
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11:32:03Injectioncan anyone make rockbox for creative zen vision m
11:32:12Injectionwilling to pay alot
11:33:18daurnimatorInjection: if mine gets ported, the zen m should be easier than now
11:34:27Injectionso its possible
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11:36:10daurnimatorwell, its possible
11:36:11Joelywhy doesn't the rockbox community just drop the whole reverse engineering thing....i dunno it seems like a waste of time to me now...wouldn't it be better spent developing a new player? one that's open design hardware and software on it? i know they started that opengraphics project where they're using an fpga to make graphics cards...why not start that for jukeboxes?
11:36:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:36:45daurnimatorbut, without lots of interest - by people with at least some programming ability, its not going to happen
11:37:14daurnimatorJoely: cause there are no open source players - the only way to do things is via reverse engineering
11:37:23Injectionso if urs get ported it will be easier
11:37:54daurnimatorJoely: note: neuros have a totally open player planned - i'm working on it with them
11:37:56scorcheJoely: some people are actually doing that....but the issue is, they will not be *near* as popular as anything that is commercially released...and it isnt like we do rockbox just for ourselves
11:38:00amiconnJoely: This idea was already being discussed several times. Check the ml archive
11:38:21Joelyohh cool!
11:38:27scorcheand the new ports forum
11:38:56daurnimatorJoely: join #neuros if you wish
11:39:15amiconnThere are far more arguments that speak against it than those which speak for it
11:40:14Slasheriamiconn: btw, what do you think only boosting cpu in playback.c / pcmbuf.c and let scheduler do unboosting? That would greatly simplify the code
11:40:57amiconnVery bad idea imho
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11:41:02Slasherihmm, why?
11:41:50Slasheriit decreases code complexity instead of increasing it
11:42:17amiconn(1) The scheduler is for scheduling. (2) The cpu should be unboosted only if _all_ threads agree on that.
11:42:18Slasheriand would make sure cpu doesn't remain boosted
11:42:35amiconnHow would the scheduler know when to unboost?
11:42:46Slasheriamiconn: of course, if cpu is boosted externally by cpu_boost, scheduler wouldn't touch that
11:43:03Slasheriit would unboost only if cpu was boosted by trigger_cpu_boost()
11:43:12Slasheriand when all threads are sleeping
11:43:47Slasherischeduler knows it best when no threads are running
11:43:53amiconnSome code needs the CPU boosted all the time even if all threads are sleeping
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11:44:10Slasherithen that code should call cpu_boost(true); .. cpu_boost(false);
11:44:19Slasheriand it works
11:44:32amiconn...and unboosting in the scheduler can lead to very frequent boosting/unboosting, which should be avoided at all cost
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11:45:03Slasherihow is that possible if only audio thread uses that trigger_cpu_boost()?
11:45:09Slasheriit will not unboost until buffer is full
11:45:45Slasherialso any other code could use it if it needs boosting until job is done (no sleeping between)
11:46:12amiconnHmm, still sounds rather strange to me
11:46:31*amiconn would prefer to get his buffer ram back :(
11:46:32Slasherii think it just makes things simple :)
11:46:52Slasheriamiconn: i will do that soon, before anything else :)
11:48:54amiconnHmm. I guess I would have to see the changes in order to judge them
11:49:28Slasherihehe, true. I will show a patch soon, it has mostly just removed code in it :)
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11:49:51amiconnTo make it more logical, the boost call should probably be part of the scheduler code as well (thread.c)
11:50:02*Kalthare ponders having his patch add his name to the credits.
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11:50:34Slasheriamiconn: yep, there would be only boost call in thread.c (trigger_cpu_boost() or whatever its name would be)
11:50:48Slasheriand no calls to do unboosting because that would be handled automatically
11:51:19amiconnHmm, there's still a situation where it wouldn't unboost even if it should
11:51:20Injectionso could anyone tell me if there working on putting creative vision m rockbox?
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11:51:33Slasheriamiconn: hmm, really?
11:52:10Injectionanyone konw?
11:52:10amiconnYou say it would only uboost if all threads are sleeping. Now what happens if the thread that triggered the boost is sleeping, but only one other thread is not?
11:52:12scorcheInjection: stop asking here and search to find out
11:52:42dan_aInjection: I don't think anybody is. Have you had a look at
11:52:48Slasheriamiconn: then cpu would remain boosted.. but in fact i think that could be even preferred
11:53:04scorchethere is a 5 page thread about it in the forum...
11:53:19Slasheribecause probably the one other thread is doing some job
11:53:36amiconnNot necessarly. The thread that isn't sleeping could just wait for some data transfer to finish
11:53:45sneakumsscorche: how much of it is "i tink the rock box shud be on zen vizion lol"?
11:54:04scorchesneakums: why dont you read it and find out
11:54:12Slasheriamiconn: hmm, true. but could that happen normally often?
11:54:27amiconnIf it needs to wait but has to react pretty quick when the process is finished, it would just call yield() instead of sleep()
11:54:32sneakumsscorche: because i don't own or plan to own one
11:54:50scorchethen spend the rest of your life not knowing ;)
11:54:58sneakumsi can live with that
11:55:16amiconnSlasheri: I don't know of many places atm, one place (not subject to the boosting problem) is the MMC serial DMA on Ondio
11:55:56amiconnSame thing will happen when we introduce ATA DMA on coldfire - and then it gets relevant
11:56:07Slasheriok, so probably swcodec targets wouldn't have the issue, at least while audio is playing
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11:56:51amiconnWhile ATA DMA is running, the read function should yield, otherwise there wouldn't be an advantage in using DMA
11:56:52Slasheriamiconn: but then it means that cpu could never be in sleeping state?
11:57:17Slasheriand that would increase power consumption quite much
11:57:18amiconnOf course it can, just not during a DMA transfer
11:57:41Slasheriah.. but then cpu is always boosted anyway while doing buffering or reading from disk
11:59:03amiconnhmm, okay
11:59:41amiconnIt _might_ be that we need to lock it boosted anyway during DMA, in order to keep reliable timing
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12:00:59KalthareSay, this is a stupid question, but would it be possible for an ATA request to error out because of a wrong sector size?
12:01:03amiconnBtw, ATA DMA will only be possible for word-aligned data. Misaligned data still needs transferring via the CPU
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12:01:58*amiconn sighs
12:02:35daurnimatorany1 willing to do a port for me? - you'll get provided with all required info
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12:06:30KalthareEh, sorry for being a pest tonight.
12:07:36scorchedaurnimator: stop asking please...if you want someone to do a port, start a thread in the new ports forum with relevant information to start a discussion (or try to at least), but do not request a port be done on it in the thread or anywhere else really...for a port to happen, a dev has to have the device, and have the motivation to port rockbox
12:08:02amiconnYes, and the time
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12:10:28*amiconn remembers how long it took to get the Ondio MMC driver working
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12:38:17Genre9mp3amiconn: Speaking of MMC, what do you think would take to support the new 8GB ones?
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12:39:18amiconnOh, I didn't notice that MMCs >4GB are now available
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12:40:03amiconnWell, I would need such a card, and some docs about the necessary protocol extension
12:40:34amiconnThe MMC protocol up to plain MMC4.0 only supports up to 4GB (byte-wise addressing with 32 bit addresses)
12:41:11amiconnHopefully the extended protocol is also available in SPI mode...
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12:42:14amiconnThere will be one limitation for sure - an MMC >4GB won't be accessible via the USB bridge in the Ondio, so storing music on it will require a recent card reader
12:44:14markun_daurnimator: do you have access to the DAC with the DM320 or is that connected to the DSP?
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12:44:22amiconnWell, we can't change the USB->MMC bridge, and the built-in bridge doesn't support those extensions for sure
12:44:31daurnimatorits through the DSP
12:45:15Genre9mp3I know it's too early, but I wanted your "technical" opinion on this...
12:45:23Genre9mp3which you already gave me... thanks
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12:48:49amiconnHmm, Samsung doesn't list these new cards on their website
12:49:36amiconnNo, samsung
12:50:38Genre9mp3"Samsung's new high-density and high-performance MMCplus cards are expected to be available in the second half of this year."
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12:50:49Genre9mp3They will probably soon
12:52:29amiconnHmm, Samsung seems to have useful data sheets :)
12:52:57amiconnIf they will publish the datasheets for the 8GB cards as well, it shouldn't be too hard...
12:53:09*Genre9mp3 crosses fingers
12:56:39Genre9mp3amiconn: Also, about the USB limitation, I can't find it _such_ a problem since I would barely use USB1.1 to transfer my music
12:57:38amiconnRockbox would evn learn to protect the user from this problem... by not allowing USB mode and displaying a message instead when such a card is plugged in
12:58:22Genre9mp3Do the 4GB ones work with USB?
12:59:24*amiconn has such a card :)
12:59:57*Genre9mp3 will soon have such a card :)
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13:09:00Genre9mp3Does anyone have any experience with Samsung hard disks? I usually would go for a WD or a Seagate but I found a Samsung one (400GB) for 130 eur. and I'm tempted
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13:14:20daurnimatori love samsung
13:14:30daurnimatori've never had a problem with one
13:14:48daurnimatorits all i use in my working desktop
13:16:27Genre9mp3All my drives are WD and never had a problem with any of them
13:16:50bluebrotherthe only drive that failed badly on me was a samsung one ... some years ago.
13:17:04Genre9mp3bluebrother: ouch
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13:17:21daurnimatori've had WD fail a couple of time
13:17:29daurnimatorand a couple of maxtors
13:18:05Genre9mp3Well.. then you never know from where it will come from
13:18:15Genre9mp3But I wouldn't go for a Maxtor.. that's sure
13:18:15bluebrotherI used IBM / Hitachi drives without any problems for years.
13:19:01daurnimatori use to use fujitsu & hitachi, but i haven't seen any drives from them in years
13:19:40daurnimatorseagate drives have always been $20 or so more expenisve than others, so i rarely buy them
13:20:15daurnimatorin short, Genre9mp3, theres nothing wrong with samsung
13:20:48Genre9mp3Well yes, I guess
13:20:57Genre9mp3Actually I want one for backup reasons
13:21:21daurnimatoryou must;ve have much to backup
13:21:22*Genre9mp3 thinks that he never had a failed HDD
13:21:48Genre9mp3So I kanda wait for one... :/
13:21:57*amiconn is now pretty sure that rockbox will be able to support MMC4.1 :-)
13:22:09*amiconn wants such a card
13:22:14Genre9mp3amiconn: \o/
13:22:43Genre9mp38GB for a device 4+ years old! Now that's news!
13:24:14amiconnShow off those crippled modern players! ;) (thinking of the H10-5GB)
13:24:38Genre9mp3Or why not even Nano2G or the Sansa! :)
13:24:56pixelmaeven better than Sansa or the new Nano :)
13:25:08Genre9mp3pixelma: :P
13:25:37Bagdersansa has a micro-SD too
13:25:45Bagderso they can go 10GB
13:26:13Genre9mp3Bagder: Just wait for the 16GB MMCs to arrive ;)
13:26:15daurnimatorwhat size does micro SD goto?
13:26:26BagderI believe 2GB is the biggest right now
13:26:32daurnimatorthought so
13:26:36Bagdermicro-SD is a helluva small thing
13:26:42daurnimatori know
13:26:44Genre9mp3Bagder: I thought it was 1GB... but not sure
13:26:50daurnimatori was going to look at mobiles one day
13:27:00daurnimatortested a few out
13:27:06dan_aBagder: If it wasn't, it'd be called "macro-SD"...
13:27:12daurnimatorand the sales chick kept dropping the micro sd cards
13:27:20daurnimatorand she couldn't find them
13:27:23daurnimator(thick carpet)
13:27:38Bagderat my work place a guy bought us a new micro-SD for our product and said "hey, these things are SMALL these days"...
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13:28:01Bagder... and then I showed him how he had the "SD-wrapper" still there, and extract the mini from inside of it
13:28:31daurnimatori need to buy an SD
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13:28:37daurnimatori'm not sure if i should get a micro
13:28:50Genre9mp3damn! Google doesn't work here atm
13:28:52daurnimator2gb normal = $50 2gb micro = $65
13:29:03daurnimatorbut, i might loose it or something :S
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13:29:57Genre9mp3hey... not that MMC is considered to be big
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13:36:37amiconnHmm, this is even more helpful: (and support for over 4GB is MMC4.2)
13:44:09Genre9mp3"High density MultiMedia Cards supports capacity more than 2 G Bytes and limits capacity up to and including 32 GB in this notes"
13:45:19amiconnAfaics the protocol allows for even more
13:45:53amiconnThe 2GB limit isn't entirely correct, but it points out a detail that might be important
13:46:32Genre9mp3So it's the 4.2 for > 4GB, right?
13:47:01amiconn4GB cards do work in rockbox (as they are actually a little less than 4*2^30 bytes), but it might be that this isn't the case for cards from all manufacturers
13:47:50amiconn..because some manufacturers might have chosen the new block addressing scheme for their 4GB cards
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13:52:50webguest84Hi, I just got a Archos Recorder, I like the sound, std OS, but there is lots of background noiseevident, ironically the background noise is present only when the HDD isn't being accessed, is this background noise due to defetive caps ?
13:53:52 Quit barrywardell ()
13:54:24webguest84where are the archos gurus ?
13:55:02webguest84amiconn, Linus, bagder, zagor, dragon.....hi there
13:56:23webguest84rum tee tum tee tum
13:56:43*webguest84 looks around the room for signs of life
13:57:01Genre9mp3webguest84: Patience is a good thing to have
13:57:26webguest84yes, patience is a grace
13:57:41amiconnYou're referring to the ticking background noise in the archos firmware?
13:57:54amiconnThis is a bug rockbox cures
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13:58:13webguest84yes its like a ticking noise, quite loud infact
13:59:02webguest84ha, cant wait to install rockbox, not at my pcat the moment
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13:59:19webguest84thanks amiconn
14:00:04webguest84Genre9mp3: patience is a grace, and grace was a little girl who wouldn't wash her face
14:00:30daurnimatorand the face is where patience is shown?
14:00:46webguest84thanks folks
14:00:48 Part webguest84
14:00:56daurnimatorso... she washed off her patience, which wiped herself off?
14:01:14daurnimatorlesson to be learnt: washing your face can kill you - SAY NO!
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14:06:44Genre9mp3ah...he left
14:06:59Genre9mp3impatient guy... :P
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14:08:06dan_aBagder: Is MrH going to follow that screenshot with some information, or was he just teasing us?
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15:23:59Kitt0severytime i update my X5 with the latest build the settings are lost, how do i keep them? (can't seem to find it in the twiki)
15:25:00nlsMain menu > manage settings > save .cfg
15:26:17Kitt0sthanks :]
15:31:59Kitt0snls, it doesn't load it by deafult tho :\
15:33:11peturKitt0s: settings get reset when somebody changes the settingsblock code (adds a setting,...)
15:33:35peturso it shouldn't reset them _every_ time
15:33:39PaulJamthe settings shouldn't be reset on every update. only when the version number of the configuration increases
15:36:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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15:55:53SoapPaulJam - what is an easy way for a layperson to determine if the version number of the configuration has updated? I've always recomended erasing settings every update simply because I don't know how to determine when it is required and when it is not. Not to mention the fact that failure to wipe settings seems to be the answer to 50% of the odd problem questions on the forums.
15:58:13*dan_a hates the Sansa LCD
15:59:08PaulJamyou can look on the frontpage or on the "all commits since 2.5" page if the file settings.c was modified. (when you click on the versionnumber you see the changes that were done) and if the line that contains "#define CONFIG_BLOCK_VERSION" was changed, you need to save your settings.
15:59:59peturthe problem is probably that most patched version change settings but not the versionnumber
16:03:11SoapI could do that, seems easy enough, but I still think recomending the clearing of settings is a much simpler suggestion to the masses.
16:04:15peturI never clear settings on update and never had odd problems (trust me, I update a lot)
16:04:58peturif the config block version number is changed as it should, there shouldn't be any problem
16:06:24Soapwhich goes back, I guess, to your statement that the primary source of "odd" problems revolves around the (sometimes unmentioned) prevelent percentage of complaints about wacky problems from Unsupported Builds.
16:07:42SoapSo if the config block version has changed (as it should) does rockbox clear the settings for you? Or is it "smart" enough to determine what particular settings need dropped (in the case of a backwards upgrade)?
16:07:54peturit clears them all
16:08:26Soapthanks for the education.
16:13:21 Join shrewd [0] (
16:14:22shrewdhi i have a problem with installing rockbox no ipod via linux
16:14:49shrewdi hed installed bootloader
16:15:26shrewdand it's loooks good
16:15:35shrewdi had*
16:16:50shrewdhow can i install rockbox.bin
16:17:52dan_ashrewd: Which step of the instructions did you get up to?
16:17:58 Quit GFoux ("Le vrai danger, c'est quand les hommes penseront comme les ordinateurs")
16:17:59shrewdrockbox.bin don't run on my linux and coppyng it to root folder on ipod does not helps
16:18:12Soapdo you mean rockboot.bin?
16:18:14oboshrewd: you need to dd it to the first partition of your ipod
16:18:36shrewdno, rockbot.bin is ok
16:18:48shrewdit's runing
16:18:49 Join PaulJam_ [0] (
16:19:12shrewdthe partition tab looks good
16:19:58shrewd bootloader too but i don't know how to install the os on ipod
16:20:01SoapI don't know of rockbox.bin for the ipod unless I'm missing something totally obvious.
16:20:25SoapYou need to download a build .zip file (daily...cvs) and extract it to the root of your ipod.
16:20:34Soapthe firmware is called rockbox.ipod.
16:20:37dan_ashrewd: It sounds like you need to follow step 2 of
16:20:44Soapif the bootloader works, this is all you need to do.
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16:22:34*Soap is still confused where "rockbox.bin" would be in an ipod install.
16:23:14hcsthat'd be the bootloader, wouldn't it?
16:23:17shrewdi heve copyed rockbox.ipod to root of my ipod boot it does not help
16:23:31Soaphcs, no the bootloader would be rockboot.bin.
16:24:06dan_ashrewd: What happens? Do you get any error message?
16:24:19Soapshrewd - you mentioned that the bootloader install was "looking good". What happens when you boot your ipod?
16:24:26hcsSoap: ok, I was thinking of bootloader.bin
16:24:41Soaphcs, yea, that too ;)
16:25:00shrewdyes wait i wil try to write it to u
16:25:45shrewdrockbox error -2
16:25:59shrewdloading orginal os
16:26:37oboyour rockbox.ipod file is 0 bytes
16:27:35shrewdhmm ... i have ipodlinux previously so i have 3 parition on my ipod
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16:27:59oboshrewd: try extracting the zip again, to your FAT32 partition
16:28:31obomake sure the disc icon has stopped before you umount/eject
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16:28:45shrewdshrewd@Nasa:~/Desktop/a$ fdisk -l /dev/sdf
16:28:45shrewdDisk /dev/sdf: 60.0 GB, 60011642368 bytes
16:28:45shrewd255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 7295 cylinders
16:28:45DBUGEnqueued KICK shrewd
16:28:45shrewdUnits = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
16:28:45shrewd Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
16:28:46***Alert Mode level 1
16:28:46shrewd/dev/sdf1 * 1 1 8001 0 Empty
16:28:48shrewd/dev/sdf2 * 6 7296 58564957+ b W95 FAT32
16:28:50shrewd/dev/sdf3 2 5 32130 83 Linux
16:28:52shrewdPartition table entries are not in disk order
16:29:38dan_alinuxstb_: Coprocessor on the iPod 5g has been confirmed working
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16:32:06shrewdobo :thx
16:32:09linuxstbdan_a: Yes, I saw that in the logs. I'm on holiday at the moment though, and don't have my Photo with me to test.
16:32:30dan_alinuxstb: OK - have a nice rest, then!
16:32:39linuxstbI also saw the Sansa LCD photo - who got it working?
16:33:18oboshrewd: working okay now?
16:33:47dan_aI think that's MrH's work... we've seen no code yet
16:34:05linuxstbSo he's bought himself a Sansa?
16:34:22dan_aOr borrowed one, yes
16:34:29qailerhello people, I wonder why I can't browse the menus when putting my ipod in charge, I'm using rockbox, it reboots, why this?
16:34:50linuxstbHold MENU as you insert the cable.
16:35:12qailerlinuxstb: thx
16:35:32aliaskWhere's this picture?
16:36:15aliaskOooh pretty.
16:36:36dan_aI can make the screen white, but can't do anything with it... it's so frustrating!
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16:37:27linuxstbdan_a: Is the version of your patch that works on the 5g any different to the ones I was testing in the past?
16:37:32Quazgaai just installed x5 rockbox 10/14 and now my settings are cleared :(
16:38:16dan_alinuxstb: Yes - I changed a couple of things in system.c to stop them doing anything when called from the COP.
16:38:16linuxstbQuazgaa: Yes, that happens occasionally. You should save a copy of your settings to a .cfg file for such occasions. (In the Manage Settings menu)
16:38:47***Alert Mode OFF
16:39:11linuxstbdan_a: Time for me to start work on audio in mpegplayer then...
16:39:33Quazgaaperhaps ive done so, me looks
16:40:02Quazgaayay i did
16:40:02dan_aThere's still a way to go before it can be committed - barrywardell tested it on his H10 with no luck
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16:44:34linuxstbI assume he changed the H10 bootloader in the same way as the ipods?
16:45:31dan_aI checked and the CVS version is correct, and he upgraded to that.
16:46:57linuxstbI _think_ hcs has a Photo as well - hopefully he can test it.
16:47:47dan_aWhen I'm feeling brave I'll post on the forums for testers
16:48:25aliaskI suppose I can test it when on my mini1g
16:48:33Genre9mp3hey.. I thought that Bagder made the LCD on Sansa work... am I wrong?
16:48:38dan_aaliask: Yes please!
16:48:55dan_aGenre9mp3: No, that was a picture that MrH sent him
16:48:57aliaskdan_a: Just the latest patch in the tracker?
16:49:25Genre9mp3dan_a: Oh... I misunderstood then
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16:49:57dan_aaliask: You'll need to upgrade your bootloader to a recent CVS version too, but I've posted bootloader.bins for every iPod
16:50:08CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
16:50:08*Genre9mp3 makes the forbidden question: Who is mrH ?
16:50:38dan_aMrH is someone who (anonymously) does reverse engineering for us
16:51:35Genre9mp3I see... and how did he get contact with the project? (sorry, but it seems i've missed some episodes)
16:51:57BagderGenre9mp3: he's the guy who cracked the mi4 files
16:52:26Bagderhe got in contact after reading my initial sandisk+rockbox page afair
16:53:39Genre9mp3Bagder: ok... good to know... do we know if he wants to contribute to the project further?
16:54:25Bagderwe're grateful for every piece we get from him, but like everyone else involved we can of course not know how much future work he'll do
16:54:35linuxstbBagder: Does he own a Sansa now? Or did he send you code to test?
16:54:58BagderI don't know, I expect to get more info about it
16:55:12linuxstbSo he just gave you the photo?
16:55:12Bagderthat's his pic, I've not seen any code for that yet
16:55:55dan_aI feel like I'm being teased by that photo
16:56:04aliaskdan_a: Is it possible to upgrade the bootloader without the original bootpartition.bin?
16:56:05Genre9mp3I was about to say that
16:56:06linuxstbHow hard can it be? :)
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16:56:34stridhey guys
16:57:00dan_aaliask: It must be - I did it when I upgraded my 3g, but I can't remember *what* I did!
16:57:04linuxstbaliask: Not really... You would need to write a program that did the opposite of ipod_fw. Do you have the apple_os.bin?
16:57:16hcsdan_a: I have a photo, do you need me to test something?
16:57:16stridI accidentally updated my 5g video ipod (running rockbox)'s firmware and now I can't boot into rockbox, how can I undo the damage?
16:57:33linuxstbstrid: You have to reinstall the Rockbox bootloader.
16:57:36aliaskI did the original install on a school computer, so I don't have any of the old files.
16:57:56aliaskFactory reset time?
16:57:57stridlinuxstb: does that require any of the backups from when I first installed rockbox?
16:58:17dan_ahcs: If you wouldn't mind testing FS #5755 - coprocessor support. It requires updating the bootloader though
16:58:25linuxstbNo, they relate to the old firmware. You should do it again from the start.
16:58:38hcsdan_a: can do, I'll let you know in 15 minutes or so
16:58:51stridjust download the latest video ipod build and start from scratch?
16:58:51dan_ahcs: Thank you!
16:59:34linuxstbstrid: You don't need a new - that should still be on your ipod. It's the bootloader-video.bin and the installation associated to that that needs repeating.
16:59:34dan_aaliask: I think I must have used the iPod updater to restore my firmware, and then reinstalled from scratch
16:59:54hcsdan_a: should I build a bootloader with the last patch on that page or use one of the provided bootloaders?
17:00:19Soaplinuxstb - I assume strid upgraded to Apple firmware 1.2 (for sake of argument let's assume he did.) If I was to send him the patched bootloader I made with my 5thG ipod and Apple firmware 1.1 what would be the result? Would it not work, or would it in effect revert his firmware?
17:00:21stridlinuxstb: ah, right
17:00:41dan_ahcs: One of the provided bootloaders. The updated bootloader has been in CVS for a while now
17:01:09aliaskdan_a: I'm sorry it has come to this, but I cannot proceed any further. I would have to download AND install iTunes 7 to reset my iPod. This I cannot tollerate.
17:01:26aliask(Juuust kidding, I'm downloading it now)
17:01:41carlitunes is a piece of shit
17:01:47stridI wish they didn't bundle itunes and quicktime..
17:01:47daurnimatori don't want an ipod cause of itunes
17:01:52dan_aaliask: hehehe! I was just telling you how that was no problem!
17:01:54hcsdan_a: ok, so that I don't screw up, I am updating the bootloader and building in which patch?
17:02:29linuxstbThe worst thing is that Apple don't provide a separate ipod updater - it's now part of itunes 7.
17:03:07dan_ahcs: Step 1. Update the bootloader. Step 2. Install a normal rockbox build patched with kernel_on_cop_4.diff from FS #5755
17:04:05aliaskHoly crap speed record for my internet connection! From of all places...
17:06:20 Join Lear [0] (
17:09:23stridlinuxstb: okay, it works fine now, thanks
17:10:07striddoes rockbox now support .mp4 playback?
17:12:25hcsdan_a: ok, running with the new bootloader and patched firmware, anything in particular I should be trying?
17:13:48dan_ahcs: If it plays music, it's probably working. To be sure, have a look at the "View OS Stacks" debug menu - that will tell you which core the threads are running on
17:15:13hcsdan_a: playing an MP3 now, if I read this right everything but main and codec are on core 0
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17:15:39aliaskBad news, I cant turn on my ipod after updating.
17:15:56aliaskAND I have quicktime installed.
17:16:00hcsdan_a: that is, there is a main on core0 and core1, of course
17:16:08dan_ahcs: Then it's working - the codec thread is on the COP
17:16:19dan_aaliask: Not at all?
17:16:32aliaskWell, no audible, or visible response.
17:16:41aliask(where visible is limited to backlight)
17:16:48hcsdan_a: ok, cool, I'll be running this on a train ride and let you know if there are any disasters
17:17:42dan_ahcs: Thank you - but it's looking good so far
17:18:22hcsand I'll compile in my ridiculously cpu-intensive nsf player and see how that holds out
17:18:56hcsthanks for all the cores
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17:19:54dan_aaliask: Eeek. I don't know what to do about that!
17:20:05Learstrid: it has for some time, only it was a bit limited before.
17:20:53aliaskdan_a: When I finished the update, it said I needed to connect it to a power source, but the only one I have is the USB, which isn't doing anything. I'll take it over to my friend's house tomorrow (he has a powerbrick) and I'll see what happens.
17:21:24aliaskBut this means I can't test the patch until then... sorry :(
17:22:07dan_aSorry for making you do the update!
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17:22:59linuxstbdan_a: I've just tried your patch on my 5g, and I get a codec thread on the COP, but not a main thread.
17:23:01aliaskNo big loss, I didn't pay for the player, and I have another DAP so even if it doesn't work out it's not a big deal.
17:24:30aliaskAnyway, I'm off for the night.
17:24:34 Quit aliask ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox]")
17:24:42dan_alinuxstb: Are you definitely running an updated bootloader?
17:24:49 Join ze [0] (i=ze@
17:25:06linuxstbYes, I just checked - it's one I compiled a couple of days ago.
17:25:58stridwhere should I place an .mp4 video file so that the original ipod firmware can detect and play it (since rockbox apparently can't)?
17:26:38 Quit ender` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:26:42dan_aI wonder if it's a timing issue - if init_threads() is called from the COP before the CPU it would probably fail
17:26:44linuxstbstrid: You have to transfer it via itunes (or equivalent)
17:27:42stridI haven't done that before :I
17:27:57hcsdan_a: full cpu usage by the codec still slows down the ui, is this expected?
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17:29:15stridI don't suppose itunes will convert a video to a compatible format on the fly?
17:29:49dan_ahcs: Not really, no. Unless priority scheduling is enabled by default now - in which case the UI might be being throttled to allow the codec more CPU time even though it's on a different processor.
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17:30:49hcsdan_a: I think that may be the situation, a few weeks ago I first started noticing the gui getting jumpy instead of running smoothly and causing the audio to glitch
17:31:51hcsthe last two are a unit
17:33:00hcsso, again, kudos, and I am off
17:33:27dan_aThanks again for testing!
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17:36:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:39:43stridthis is strange
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17:41:27stridoh, there it goes, nevermind
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17:51:33lostlogicdan_a: priority scheduling isn't per-core yet?
17:52:18dan_alostlogic: I've only briefly glanced at the code, but it looks like it should be.
17:52:46lostlogicweird that the codec would impact it then −− I was thinking that the UI jumpiness was just the difference between boosted and not boosted.
17:53:10lostlogicbtw, the latest patch posted to the flyspray works on my 5g, although I didn't update the bootloader from the one you had sent me earlier yesterday
17:53:50dan_aI don't know why it should work on your 5g and not linuxstb's
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17:54:31obodan_a: works on my 5g as well
17:55:51dan_aAnd the reasons that I can think of for codec performance hitting the UI are either that the codec thread isn't really running on the COP, that priority scheduling isn't working as it should across the cores, or that something other than the codec thread is choking the CPU
17:55:53lostlogiclinuxstb must have looked at it funny.
17:55:59dan_aThanks obo
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18:05:48*lostlogic turns off priority scheduling
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18:10:09RogerBaconrockbox is ALIVE !
18:10:29peturand kicking
18:10:39*petur kicks RogerBacon
18:11:03lostlogicdan_a: with priority scheduling off, scrolling through lists can make the codec fall behind, so something is up.
18:11:13lostlogic(ie it's somehow not running on the other core or something)
18:11:59bluebrotherwas Rockbox dead some time?
18:12:11peturthe server was
18:12:19bluebrotheroh. didn't notice that
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18:16:46RogerBaconi hate the gigabeat s firmware
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18:21:36daurnimatorok, i won't get a gigabeat
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18:30:26dan_alostlogic: I'm just writing a debug screen to allow me to turn the coprocessor on and off, which will prove that the codec thread is running there.
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18:32:25lostlogicrunning the codec thread on core1 vs core2 on my 5g definitely changes something... the boost ratio goes _down_ but it's easie rto cause skips with it on the main core... (priority scheduling off)
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18:33:14lostlogichow could the UI thread and the codec thread be competing if they are on different cores. wtf.
18:33:48oboboost ratio seemed to be the same for me, but I didn't have anything else that intensive turned on
18:34:56lostlogicmaybe it is about the same, I might have looked at too different of parts of the song.
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18:46:01RogerBaconwoo, archos player is ugly
18:56:14RogerBaconArchos Jukebox 5000, 6000 and Studio models
18:56:21RogerBaconArchos Jukebox Recorder 6, 10, 15 and 20
18:56:29RogerBaconArchos Jukebox Recorder V2
18:56:49Soapbetter question is which Rockbox supported player /isn't/ ugly.
18:57:06SoapThey may have lots of good points, but aesthetics ain't one of them.
18:58:07Genre9mp3Soap: I disagree
18:58:26Genre9mp3I like both irivers and the Ondio, too
18:58:55Soapthe Ondio the one with the hemispherical hole in the side of a card slot?
18:59:19Genre9mp3slot... yes...that one
19:00:15Genre9mp3and it's comfortable when holding it with your right hand ;)
19:00:31Genre9mp3and tiny of course
19:00:57Genre9mp3anyway, I like the design of it....
19:04:50Genre9mp3Soap: Which mp3 player do you like aesthetically?
19:05:07Genre9mp3not rockbox supported...
19:06:55Soapthe mrobe series is interesting.
19:07:03RogerBaconyes :D
19:07:11RogerBaconand the gigabeat s :D
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19:45:40XavierGrkinda late but for me aesthetically H100 is the way to go!
19:46:05XavierGrbest mp3 player design for me
19:46:16XavierGr(if you exclude the little weird joystick)
19:46:53XavierGrthe joystick could be better, but just having a joystick is really good
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19:47:34daurnimatorarchos gmini 40* for the win!!!
19:48:14lexipods ftw :)
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19:48:19daurnimatorits like using a game boy at times
19:48:28lexXavierGr: the clickwheel owns every joystick
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19:59:15karimXavierGr, I was going to ask how well was the joystick to play doom
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19:59:32karimyou have a joystick but no color !
19:59:42karimh300 rules !
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20:04:20XavierGrwell I don't think the clickweel is better than the joystick
20:04:46XavierGrand the joystick is fine on doom, but H100 has no color so it is kinda weird to play doom on H100
20:05:11XavierGrnavigating with the joystick though is way more easier for me than with the H300 button pad
20:12:15barrywardelldan_a: any thoughts on the cause of the problems with the cpufreq patch?
20:12:31barrywardelli've just noticed that system_reboot() also doen't work with it applied
20:12:40karimXavierGr, H300 pad sucks, you can't turn and go forward or back at the same time.
20:12:54karimXavierGr, that's just a 4 direction button
20:13:23karimanyway even for normal usage the button sucks
20:13:46karimI am wondering how the remote are. I think H300 have ajoystick on the remote
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20:25:19dan_abarrywardell: (assuming you mean the coprocessor patch) I don't have any solid ideas at the moment, no. The only thing I can think is that maybe init_threads() is being called from the COP before it gets called from the main CPU, which would cause problems.
20:25:48barrywardellsorry, yeah that's what i meant
20:26:24barrywardellis there a way to block init_threads() until the CPU has called it?
20:28:19dan_aThere should be... I guess some flag in IRAM (so it doesn't get cached) that the COP waits on and the CPU sets in init_threads.
20:29:27barrywardellok, maybe i'll try that
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20:30:19barrywardellto put a variable in IRAM, you just IDATA_ATTR?
20:30:34dan_aThat's right
20:30:44BigMacany reason that would cause my backlight not to turn on in doom on a 5g?
20:30:51BigMacI have reinstalled the build
20:30:57BigMacbut still nothing
20:31:41BigMacand I found a bug that causes the 5g to show a black screen and stopp playback after several minutes and you have to do a hard restart
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20:38:35dan_aIt's a novelty having crashed which don't lock the machine up!
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20:49:57barrywardelldan_a: should this work for blocking init_threads():
20:50:06barrywardellit doesn't seem to make any difference
20:52:42dan_aI think it ought to. So we need to work out where your COP is running off to.
20:53:05dan_a(And why it's refusing to set up its threads)
20:54:47barrywardellit says the codec thread is running on the COP
20:55:02barrywardelland the codec buffer even gets filled when I play a mp3
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20:56:36dan_aIf it doesn't say that a main thread is running there, then something is wrong. And I think the codec buffer gets filled by the audio thread, and emptied (into the audio buffer) by the codec thread
20:56:58barrywardellah right, and the audio buffer isn't getting filled at all
20:58:30barrywardelldo I need to update the bootloader every time I make changes, or just once. I've been updating it every time.
21:00:31dan_aI don't think you needed to update it at all - the update was to make main() return into crt0-pp.S after loading Rockbox, which the iPod version didn't do (I added that to CVS in August,) but I think the H10's always has done
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21:09:46dan_abarrywardell: I think it should be possible to write (or edit) an interrupt routine to keep track of where the coprocessor is.
21:10:52barrywardellthat would make life much easier
21:11:25dan_aEven if it's just presenting it in a debug menu
21:12:59azn1arti kinda need help
21:13:16barrywardelli'm currently trying to figure out if cop_main even gets called
21:14:01azn1arti want to know how to create my own lng file
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21:25:06barrywardelldan_a: looks like cop_main() isn't getting run for some reason. I tried turning the backlight off at the start of it and it didn't do anything
21:27:54dan_abarrywardell: Very strange. I'll have another go at it tomorrow, and think about what it could be this evening.
21:29:02barrywardelli'll think about it too. i might be missing something
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21:49:38karimthe fonts are separated from cvs release ?
21:50:57Soapyes, as they don't get updated enough to justify frequent downloading.
21:51:07SoapIs the wiki down for anyone else?
21:51:54oboisn't for me
21:52:35Soapobo, does the failure to log first song played continue to be a problem with the Audioscrobbler/Last.FM log patch? If so what is the cause?
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21:54:44oboFrom what I can tell it was fixed a few weeks ago, I think by some of pondlifes work.
21:55:08oboThe problem was the changed_track_event from playback.c wasn't calling the scrobbler callback
21:55:32oboSince the old tagdb/runtimedb was pulled, there was no other code using that fuction, so any problem with it wasn't noticed
21:56:23oboFor me the only issue is the first track when the device is powered on, and auto-resume is enabled
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21:57:41karimthat DGT themes is really nice, would it be cool as default themes for rockbox ? :p
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21:58:09SoapI know it is outside your control, obo, but do you know why it didn't get commited the other night?
21:59:10oboIt needs testing on Archos... that's it AFAIK
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23:03:35linihey guys
23:03:47linii just dug up my old AJBR 15
23:03:59liniand updated it with a daily build
23:04:25liniis there anything i should do (clear settings, etc.) before i can start using it again?
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23:15:02liniseems ok now.. except that rombox refuses to flash.. file too big to fit on chip :(
23:15:13 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
23:15:29 Part _jhMikeS_
23:17:56amiconnlini: You need a new full-flash image, using bootbox instead of the original firmware as fallback.
23:18:26linii'll look into that
23:18:57amiconnThen you can flash a daily or bleeding edge build
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23:21:04liniwill try it after the batteries are charged
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23:33:14Genre9mp3... and kickin'!
23:34:12Genre9mp3^someone add this in the topic
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