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#rockbox log for 2006-11-06

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00:23:40italylinuxstb someone in here gave me a link on how to do boot rockbox without apple's bootloader
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00:31:53linuxstbitaly: Are you sure you mean apple's bootloader, and not the main Apple firmware?
00:34:37italyi mean the firmware
00:35:12linuxstbThat's different then... Which ipod do you have?
00:36:51linuxstbYou can create a firmware partition image containing just the Rockbox bootloader using the "scramble" tool in the Rockbox source. Do you have a development environment set up?
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00:38:19 Part SaidinUnleashed ("OMG TEH STUPID UP TO TEH ROOF")
00:38:22linuxstbOK, then here's a 4G partition image you can use:
00:38:40linuxstbJust write it to your ipod using ipodpatcher (I'm assuming you're running Windows).
00:39:11linuxstbYou should notice Rockbox booting a lot faster.
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00:40:36italyipodpatcher -w N rockboot-4g-noapple.bin ??
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00:46:10linuxstbitaly: Yes.
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01:57:02BronYAurStompcould someone help me out with the compiling guide (SimpleGuideToCompiling)?
01:57:11JdGordonwhats the problem?
01:57:37BronYAurStompit says "In that folder type ../tools/configure which will bring up a list of all possible devices"
01:58:36BronYAurStompbut cygdrive isn't recognizing it (?) or... it gives this: "bash: ../tools/configure: No such file or directory
01:58:49JdGordonyour in the wrong folde
01:59:05JdGordondid u get the cvs source code?
01:59:10BronYAurStompAnother command involving ".." i seem to be messing up as well, "cd.." doesn't go back out of the folder
01:59:19BronYAurStompi used daily build
01:59:21JdGordoncd ..
01:59:38BronYAurStompoh you need a space lol
02:01:13BronYAurStompso am i using the wrong file? i downloaded the daily build for iPod Video
02:01:33JdGordonoyu need to download the sourcecode
02:01:44JdGordonthen you can compile it yourself
02:02:05BronYAurStompwhere is the sourecode located?
02:02:11BronYAurStompsource archive?
02:02:20scorcheuse cvs to download it
02:02:29JdGordonyes, but doesnt the page explain how to get it form cvs?
02:02:38scorcheit does
02:02:44BronYAurStompit has two options, From CVS or From Daily Build page
02:02:52scorchedo it from cvs
02:03:11BronYAurStompi'll be "Downloading (checking out) the source", right?
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02:03:27BronYAurStompk thanks i'll see how it goes
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02:06:02BronYAurStomperm i'm really sorry but how do i go about installing CVS? and what does it stand for, because i have no idea what it is now
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02:06:22JdGordonyou should have installed it with cygwin
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02:07:00BronYAurStompoh so these commands are executed via cygwin? in that black window?
02:07:37BronYAurStomparg sorry for my ignorance. thanks for the help
02:07:42JdGordoncan i ask.. why do you want to compile it yourself?
02:07:52TimGHey all... Just curious where I should get started looking to figure out how the ID3 caching system works, I just got the source and am still getting my bearings in it
02:08:18JdGordonTimG: you mean tagcache? apps/tagcache.[ch]
02:08:18scorcheare you referring to tagcache?
02:08:21BronYAurStomptrying to use kalthare's patch for 5.5g ipod
02:08:37TimGGreat, thanks, that was what I was looking for
02:08:49scorcheBronYAurStomp: there is an unofficial build for that in the forums
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02:17:23JdGordonany beer drinking metal heads here atm?
02:18:57Davide-NYCRIGHT HERE
02:19:13*Davide-NYC woders if being mocked
02:19:34JdGordondefinatly not being mocked
02:19:41JdGordoni was pointed to that clip and i love it
02:19:51Davide-NYCI know that driver
02:20:02Davide-NYCthat guy's name is "cryptic Kenny"
02:20:12Davide-NYChe drove my band around europe in '95
02:20:20Davide-NYCI'm pretty sure it's him
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02:20:33JdGordonhaha cool
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02:21:42Davide-NYCactual not Kenny, I think it was just Ken and I'm asking the wife (then girlfriend) if there is any fotogrfic evidence around
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02:23:16Davide-NYCgoing for a Stella
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02:23:45TimGSo is ucLibc just too big to run on Rockbox hardware, or was the feeling that it wasn't needed?
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02:23:56TimGJust curious
02:24:10JdGordonwhats ucLibc?
02:24:32dionoeauclinux libc i guess
02:24:38TimGIt's a c library implementation for embedded-type platforms
02:24:39Joelysmall implementation of libc
02:24:47Joelyhaha that
02:25:07JdGordoni guess we dont need it
02:25:26JdGordonapart from malloc/free we have the important parts of libc
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02:25:51TimGOk, cool...
02:26:14TimGIs there a setjmp/longjmp implementation?
02:26:36JdGordondont think so.. why do u want to jmp?
02:27:03TimGJust to make my code as confusing as possible. :)
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02:27:50TimGBTW, I gotta say I'm amazingly impressed by rockbox, kudos to you dev types
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02:28:49JdGordonthey are all asleep atm :p
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02:32:24 Part pixelma
02:32:39TerrorByteJust wondering, what's the closest (in terms of hardware) to the H10?
02:33:05JdGordonits bassically the same hardware as the earlier ipods iirc
02:33:16Paul_the_NerdiPod Mini 2g, if I recall
02:33:31Paul_the_NerdNo, 1g
02:33:50TerrorByteDoes that have Rockboy on it?
02:34:21Paul_the_NerdThe screens aren't anything alike, which is what needs to be adapted for Rockboy
02:35:37TerrorByteI see.
02:35:39TerrorByteIs that all though?
02:36:06Paul_the_NerdScreen scaling, and button mappings.
02:36:15TerrorByteNothing more?
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02:36:20TerrorByteButton mappings?
02:36:23TerrorByteMeaning what really?
02:36:37TerrorByteAssigning buttons used by the GB/GBC to the buttons available on the H10?
02:36:57Paul_the_NerdAssigning the buttons in the menus and the button to pop up the menu, and stuff as well.
02:37:08TerrorByteI see.
02:37:18TerrorByteIs anyone working on it currently?
02:37:26Paul_the_NerdProbably not.
02:37:31TerrorByteDamn, I wish I had enough knowledge of C to work on it myself.
02:37:53Paul_the_NerdThere are about a thousand more beneficial things to be done for the H10 port, and overall, right now anyway.
02:38:03Paul_the_NerdGaming is hardly the focus of Rockbox.
02:38:32*TerrorByte concurs with JdGordon
02:38:41TerrorByteIt won't hurt to get it done.
02:38:50TerrorByteShould I file a request?
02:38:55Paul_the_NerdIf you must.
02:39:05Paul_the_NerdI think we all know it doesn't work.
02:39:05TerrorByteOr is that a useless idea?
02:39:30Paul_the_NerdThere's probably already a request for the X5 (which would mostly cover the H10 20gb at least)
02:39:56JdGordonwouldnt the h10 button layout make it pretty difficult to use?
02:40:41TerrorByteWell for some games I guess.
02:40:52TerrorByteBut not for Pokemon :P
02:43:18TerrorByteI think I'll file a request.
02:43:36JdGordonoh this sux... im downloading *stuff* and its gonna finish in about 2 hours.. exactly when i need to be at my exam :'(
02:43:58scorchewell, hopefully that means that you dont come in here and bid for your "games and other improvements" deal =P
02:44:06Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: *generally* you shouldn't file requests for things that are simply unfinished.
02:44:08 Quit menosm (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
02:46:57TerrorByteThank you for the supportive comments guys.
02:47:19TerrorByteI still want strafing in Doom.
02:49:01Paul_the_NerdAnd in response to your comments about someone telling you to "do it yourself" in the feedback on the request, it was offered advice should you choose to do it yourself. Saying how to do it isn't the same as saying you must do it.
02:49:14scorcheyou told us yesterday...and the other days before..
02:50:29TerrorByteI'm getting a negative vibe here.
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02:51:37PitchforkHey what's up?
02:51:55Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: Well, you do show up often complaining about relatively non-core issues.
02:52:06Paul_the_NerdAnd the key is that they aren't new ones, you just repeat the same one. :-P
02:52:12TerrorByteThis was new.
02:52:23TerrorByteYou guys never give straight answers either.
02:52:26Paul_the_NerdYou did bring up doom again.
02:52:35TerrorByteThat's more of a reminder.
02:52:38Paul_the_NerdHow did I not give straight answers?
02:52:43TerrorByteThey have a purpose.
02:52:47TerrorByteI gotta go real soon.
02:52:54Paul_the_NerdReminders are unnecessary
02:53:03Paul_the_NerdYou filed a feature request. It will always be there until it gets resolved.
02:53:06TerrorByteMeaning you'll remember to do it ASAP?
02:53:06PitchforkI have a question. Please don't flame me if it pisses you off... LOL
02:53:15Paul_the_NerdNo, I already told you, *I* don't want to do it.
02:53:17Paul_the_NerdI don't care.
02:53:20scorchePitchfork: go for it
02:53:31TerrorByteHelp a guy out Paul!
02:53:34PitchforkIs it possible to boot normal Apple firmware once Rockbox is installed?
02:53:43Paul_the_NerdPitchfork: Yes it is. Hold menu while booting.
02:53:49scorcheTerrorByte: do you think that you coming in here and bugging us daily about it will really get it done sooner?
02:54:04PitchforkAnd i presume Rockbox can't fuck up my iPod right?
02:54:25TerrorByteOnly one way to find out right scorche?
02:54:30Paul_the_NerdPitchfork: No, it can't.
02:54:35TerrorByteMy comments aren't directed towards you Pitchfork.
02:54:36scorchePitchfork: we havent had a single brick yet ;)
02:54:45TerrorByteBut keep in mind Pitch, it voids the warranty.
02:54:47TerrorByteGTG for now.
02:54:54 Quit TerrorByte ("CGI:IRC")
02:54:55Paul_the_NerdTerrorByte: If you spent the time you spent in here reading a C tutorial, you could probably have already read the scroll wheel Doom patch, and adapted it for H10 strafing.
02:54:59scorcheTerrorByte: i did not mean by that for you to keep trying it and se if it wor.....damn him
02:55:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:55:23PitchforkYeah, anyways, my brand new Video iPod is not under warranty, because it was sent as a replcament unit for a 30gb ipod that was not under warranty. Long story...
02:55:38TimGHey, can someone give me write access to the wiki? I'd just like to make some minor tweaks to the "how to write a plugin" page
02:55:42Paul_the_NerdPitchfork: Actually, at least an Apple Canada rep has said it doesn't void warranty. Since we only put data on disk, and don't actually alter the firmware, it *may* be okay on iPods, but this has never actually been tested in a warranty claim attempt yet.
02:56:08TimG...but I'd like to put a little documentation about the tagcache stuff too, as I figure out how it works
02:56:33PitchforkAnyways, what are the chances they will check if Rockbox is intalled. I don't think Apple's reapir service has time to waste.
02:56:46Davide-NYCPaul_the_Nerd: I want to spam the forum for an H3x0 non-LCD remote. I'm willing to trade for an H1x0 LCD remote. Is there an appropriate section for this or must it be relegated to mysticriver?
02:57:00scorchePitchfork: turn it on, and they will know
02:57:23scorcheDavide-NYC: we discussed that idea
02:57:33PitchforkWell, if it turns on, there is still some way to wipe out the drive
02:57:37PitchforkI presume
02:57:41Davide-NYCscorche: we did?
02:57:43scorchePaul_the_Nerd: why havent we done the buying/selling/trading forum under hardware yet?
02:57:54scorcheDavide-NYC: well, forum staff
02:58:07Davide-NYCi see, I thought you and I had discussed trading remotes
02:58:09Paul_the_NerdDavide-NYC: I've been working on coming up with a solid set of rules for a Sales/Trades forum, but haven't yet. Put it in General Discussion for the moment, with a topic that starts with TRADE:, and I'll move it if I get the sales forum up soon
02:58:17Davide-NYCI was beginning to question my sanity
02:59:01*TimG is listening to 2. The Birthday Party - Happy Birthday
02:59:09scorchewe dont care =)
02:59:17TimGOops, sorry... dumb open-source UI...
02:59:32PitchforkAnyways, Rockbox is very promising. With divx support, it would be awesome
02:59:54*scorche ponders about the choice to include "open-source" in that comment
03:00:07Paul_the_NerdDavide-NYC: I want to make sure that we never have an issue of backing out on trades/sales etc, nor do I want people "fishing" for bids, or auctioning items. I want people putting an item up at a fair price, and selling it for the first person to meet that price (that seems likely to be reliable as a buyer)
03:00:25Paul_the_NerdSo I'm trying to establish a clear set of rules and limits before there's a section for any sort of hardware exchange/sales.
03:00:25scorchePitchfork: video isnt really a large goal for us, but im sure it will be done eventually
03:01:12Davide-NYCPaul_the_Nerd: Good luck with that. We would need some sort of feedback mechanism
03:01:14scorchePaul_the_Nerd: didnt we already discuss that in the thread?....or was those thoughts not fully expanded upon?
03:01:33Davide-NYCwhich thread is it? I could contribute something relevant prob
03:01:41scorcheDavide-NYC: you cannot access it
03:02:09Paul_the_Nerdscorche: It was, I'm not trying to figure out the best way to enforce it.
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03:03:06SoapWith the current forum software, unless you have a secret module up your sleve, is there any sort of structure that can be imposed except "buyer beware"?
03:03:18Paul_the_NerdDavide-NYC: Essentially the plan is for people to be unable to post in the forum unless they contact us first, they're given permission (anyone can reply), if the seller doesn't sell to the first valid reply, and we receive a complaint. If the seller's story doesn't wash, they lose selling privileges.
03:03:44 Quit Pitchfork ()
03:03:46Paul_the_NerdSoap: There's a bit of one. It's easy enough to ensure people cannot start topics without our explicitly having given them permission to.
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03:04:21Davide-NYCthat sounds like a lot of work (for you?)
03:04:28SaidinUnleashedcan someone help me with a minor theme issue?
03:04:32Davide-NYCbut it should work very well
03:05:05Paul_the_NerdDavide-NYC: I can't imagine we'll have *too* many people wanting to sell often, and when we do, action is only necessary for the first sale, and the occasional conflict resolution, so probably not *too* bad.
03:05:41Davide-NYCI'm not privy to the volume of users and I like to believe there are MILLIONS of rockbox users.
03:05:42SaidinUnleashedin this theme I got from a friend, the progress bar is in the wrong place. I am not familiar with messing with themes. What element in the .wps file controls the progressbar's position?
03:06:14Paul_the_NerdDavide-NYC: There's only 6737 members registered at the forums right now. And less than half have posted, last I checked. :(
03:06:37Davide-NYCI don;t need to have my dreams shattered in such a manner
03:07:09Paul_the_NerdWell there's a lot of guests, people who don't register until they need to say something
03:07:26Paul_the_NerdI mean the sansa thread alone has 40,000 views, and we don't even have a finished port yet.
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03:13:46Davide-NYC4000 of those are mine though
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03:42:12dseebamy nano still says "do not disconnect" even though the device is not mounted. Is this normal?
03:43:24dseebaSo it is actually OK to disconnect?
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03:45:01Paul_the_NerdThe Nano is a little unreliable about that.
03:45:26dseebaok, good enough for me.
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04:03:35italyhow do i enable gapless play in rockbox
04:03:45JdGordonits not possible
04:03:50JdGordonits always on!
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04:39:29 Part SaidinUnleashed ("OMG TEH STUPID UP TO TEH ROOF")
04:55:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:27:08midkaythat's not OSX86 myzar, is it?
05:27:47*myzar disappears before any more questions are asked
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05:50:39JdGordonyay, 2 exams left
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06:01:09Paul_the_NerdJdGordon: Are you sure that left used to cancel out of the Context Menu pre action code?
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06:03:19JdGordonPaul_the_Nerd: no, but looking at the code, it looks like thats what happened!
06:03:27JdGordoni honestly never noticed so i dunno
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06:05:09Paul_the_NerdI didn't either, since I rarely use the context menu, and I don't accidentally go into the wrong menu and need to back up very often either, so when combined it was an unlikely thing
06:05:21Paul_the_NerdBut someone brought it up, and I'd say it definitely qualifies as a UI inconsistency at the very least. :)
06:05:31JdGordoni agree...
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06:06:22aliaskBut it's more intuitive IMO
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06:06:44*Paul_the_Nerd smacks Aliask
06:06:48Paul_the_NerdI mean, um...
06:07:59aliaskMmm, I'm not in the mood to be in front of my computer. I'm going out.
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06:08:29*JdGordon is listenign to crazy folk metal :)
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06:16:49JdGordonPaul_the_Nerd: what do you think about a "community driven" effort to close as many open bug reports as we can, so we know excatly which are still bugs and which arnt
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06:18:39Paul_the_NerdJdGordon: How would you start/organize it?
06:19:21JdGordonPaul_the_Nerd: i thought a thread on the ml/forums saying everyone should test the bugs, and if they cannot reproduce it to reply saying so
06:20:31Paul_the_NerdThat might work.
06:20:39Paul_the_NerdI don't know how many people will do it beyond those of us who already try
06:21:12JdGordonyeah, well.. that might be true, but i tihnk its still worth a shot
06:21:51Paul_the_NerdI'm not here now, be back later.
06:22:11JdGordonk, ttyl
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06:30:50rasherJdGordon: How about doing BSPs like many other projects? We could be systematic about it (say, take the X oldest bugs one day)
06:31:12rasherbug squashing party
06:31:32rasherA day or period designated as bug squashing time
06:32:05rasherNot entirely the same, but it could work for cleaning out the tracker as well
06:32:07JdGordonbecause they dont work well here, because lots of the bugs are only for 1 or a few targets, which means not everyone testing will be able to look at every bug
06:32:17JdGordonthat came out all wrong :p ... i dunno
06:34:08rasherWell, this is why we need to have many people working on it at the same time (on IRC or in the forum, IRC is probably most suited), so you can coordinate and ask eachother
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06:34:33Davide-NYCdedicated testers/developer forum module?
06:35:04Davide-NYCthe time zone hinder this sort of thing (obviously)
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06:35:47JdGordonyeah, well thats alwyas going to be a problem
06:35:55rasherLooks like most activity on IRC is right around midnight, Rockbox time
06:36:11hcswhat's rockbox time?
06:36:21rasherNot the logs
06:36:28JdGordonisnt the logs in gmt?
06:36:32rasherAre they?
06:36:34rasherDon't think so
06:36:41JdGordoni thought the whole site was
06:36:49JdGordonok, to sweden time then
06:36:50rasherThe logs aren't
06:37:01rasher(for some reason)
06:37:39rasherBut the activity is actually spread fairly evenly around the clock">
06:40:15Davide-NYCtwiki page?
06:40:40Davide-NYCdevs and tester scould be constantly reminded to check the page
06:40:50Davide-NYC(or should)
06:41:03rasherNot sure how much it brings above what the tracker does already
06:41:23rasherI mean, there are comments already
06:41:38JdGordonyeah, the tracker keeps everything together, and the ml is good enough when here is a question
06:41:40Davide-NYCright, then BSP could just be coordinated via mailing list then
06:41:49Davide-NYC(I guess)
06:42:11rasherI've been considering responding to the "Open bugs" mails on the dev list for a while now, addressing 10 or 15 tasks each time and asking for opinions, but never got around to it
06:42:24rasherThink I'll try right now
06:42:29rasherand see what happens
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06:43:01JdGordonive been thinkig the same, but only have the h300 so cant respond to many bugs... i have wanted to for the [atches, but am just too lazy
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06:49:09Davide-NYCgood night all
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06:53:35JdGordonflyspray sux.. i cant get a list of bugs specifiyng the h300 :'(
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06:57:17rasherA good thing to do is to check your own list of tasks as well
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07:01:39rasherJdGordon: the patch you just closed was reopened recently
07:01:48JdGordonit was?
07:02:19rasherBy bagder on 20th
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07:02:40JdGordonhmm.. ok, reopened then
07:02:53JdGordonit worked fine here tho..
07:03:01rasherNot quite sure why
07:03:14rasherah, see the history tab
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07:05:28*JdGordon is confused
07:07:11rasherRequested task be re-opened - This bug is back with a vengeance. I can't even switch to ID3database view without a crash. I haven't tried deleting all the tagcache files and re-scanning but I have no idea if that would have anything to do with the crash. The setting I have that may be pertinent to the bug is: Load to RAM: Yes However, even when changing this setting to No, the crash still occurs. The only way to navigate the ID3 ...
07:07:11JdGordonthe history and comments dont line up very well..
07:07:17rasher... database without a crash is to have fileview set to ID3 database at startup. If I switch to "All" and back, the crash occurs every time.
07:07:38JdGordonworks fine here anyway
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07:09:26rasherProbably caused by a specific composition of the db
07:10:07rasherWould probably be wise if he uploaded his tagdb files
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07:21:59JdGordonyay! 1 task really closed and fixed
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07:29:32rasherAt that speed we'll be done by sunup
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07:49:42Nimdaehaha, so like, i've been thinking my ipod needed a feature where i start my car and it boots and plays automatically,a nd when i turn it off, it stops playing automatically...turns out the feature exists :D
07:50:08Nimdae<3 rockbox
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08:44:28raksliceer... didn't mean to do that while on channel ;)
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09:12:34webguest30Hi. Why doesn't the patch 6145 (semitone pitch adjustment) get committed? I use it quite often and would like to have it in the official build. Are there any issues?
09:13:24markunwebguest30: how big are the pitch steps without the patch?
09:14:42webguest30markun: IIRC, 1%.
09:15:05webguest30markun: I rarely use that mode.
09:15:41markunI agree that semitones make a lot more sense
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09:18:27webguest30markun: so will you commit it?
09:18:49markunno, I know nothing about it. But I see preglow and LinusN looked into it. I'll ask them
09:19:00*LinusN waits for the question
09:19:09markunHi :)
09:19:25markunLinusN: do you think patch 6145 is ready for commit?
09:20:39LinusNi don't see any immediate problems with the code at least
09:22:10markunWill you do the honours then?
09:22:55LinusNno time right now, can you?
09:23:12LinusNdoes it compile on all platforms?
09:23:19markunDidn't try
09:23:36LinusNcan it be voiced?
09:23:38markunDo some people still need the percentage mode?
09:24:53LinusNi dunno
09:25:54rasherIs the current pitch screen even voiced?
09:26:01LinusNit would be awfully nice if there was a manual change in the patch as well, but i guess that is asking a bit too much
09:26:20LinusNi don't know if the pitch screen is voiced atm
09:26:25rasherDon't think so
09:26:53rasherBet it's part of that talk-more patch
09:28:18rasherNope, nothing
09:28:53rasherso no regression there at least
09:28:57LinusNok then
09:29:42webguest30The percentage mode is still needed IMHO. If my guitar tune difference isn't exactly an integer number of semitones with the song played...
09:32:57 Quit dan_a ()
09:33:59rasherThere should be room for a "switch mode" button
09:34:16rasher(which would have to reset, I suppose)
09:36:50webguest30rasher: There IS the "switch mode" button (A-B on H1xx, don't know about other platforms)
09:38:28rasherI meant a button to switch between percentage and semitone mode
09:38:47rasherAnd my point was that there should be leftover buttons on all devices
09:39:02webguest30rasher: yes, that's the button I'm talking about.
09:39:29rasherSo this is already implemented?
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09:40:31rasherI was reading the conversation as if the patch removed the percentage mode (haven't checked the patch)
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09:44:29*LinusN couldn't resist trying the patch
09:44:57LinusNworks fine, although 199.9% isn't really an octave, is it? :-)
09:47:39LinusNthe precision could probably be improved if the semitone adjustments were absolute
09:48:25LinusNbut i think it's good enough as it is
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09:49:01JdGordonhey LinusN, have you seen fs 6289?
09:49:03markunLinusN: does the patch store semitone and percentage changes in seperate values?
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09:49:48LinusNi mean, instead or adjusting the pitch in delta steps, it could keep track of how many semitones it has been adjusted from the base frequency
09:50:09markunyes, exactly
09:50:42preglowwell, it should
09:51:20LinusNJdGordon: yes, i've seen it
09:51:43JdGordonwhatcha think?
09:53:40rasherJdGordon: I have a complaint by the way. It was you who changed settings to be shown as lists, right?
09:54:07rasherwait, let me just check if this is still relevant
09:54:14rasherbefore I make a fool of myself
09:54:19JdGordongo on :D
09:54:33rasherThe volume setting wraps
09:54:36rasherThis is not good
09:54:46JdGordonyeah, ill have a look into that now
09:54:47LinusNyeah, that's really nasty
09:55:10JdGordonshould it be a special case?
09:55:55rasherAdding a "do not wrap" parameter to lists might be useful
09:56:12LinusNJdGordon: i'm curious about the ata callback in the playback code, which calls ata_spin()
09:56:28JdGordonby wrap, do you mean that you should never be able to go from the max <-> min in one step? or just while holding down the button?
09:56:35preglowmy cpu fan seems to be trying to eat its way out
09:56:37LinusNJdGordon: never
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09:56:37rasherThe first
09:56:42rasherthe latter is already implemented
09:56:51LinusNpreglow: run and hide
09:57:27JdGordonLinusN: I put that in because it is possible that the ata driver turns off the hdd before the audio thread is reactivated, using ata_spin minimises that chance
09:57:55LinusNJdGordon: i haven't run the code, but i suspect that the disk might never spin down if the disk timeout is long
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09:58:19LinusNespecially on players with a small audio buffer
09:59:01JdGordonLinusN: yeah, um I tihnk that is very possible.. maybe the ata spin can be removed if the callbacks are called whenever the disk is idle, not just when its about to shutdown
09:59:36JdGordonwhat is considered small?
09:59:46LinusNi think trying to sneak in a buffer refill while the disk is spinning is walking on thin ice
10:00:11LinusNsmall is 2mbytes
10:00:15JdGordonok, what do you think about the actual callback stuff tho?
10:00:33LinusNbut i think the archos playback code shouldn't use that callback
10:00:55LinusNJdGordon: i think it looks good
10:01:37LinusNfor some reason, i don't like the function names
10:01:54JdGordonwith 2mb buffer, does the disk acxtually spindown? that isnt all that much time
10:02:03JdGordonyeah, neither.. got a better name?
10:02:06LinusNoh, yes, it spins down
10:02:12scorcheit doesnt take that much time to fill up either though
10:02:29LinusNin fact, the spindown timer isn't used when playing audio
10:02:39webguest30LinusN: I think separate tracking of normal and semitone steps would make the patch 6145 more complicated. For me, it's very useable as it is now.
10:02:42LinusNit spins down as soon as it has buffered the data
10:02:45rasher2mb is a long time as mp3
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10:03:01LinusNwebguest30: i agree, it can be done later if needed
10:04:16JdGordonback to the volume... is that the only setting which shouldnt wrap? its going to be annoying to add an extra parameter to set_int() if it is just the one
10:04:22LinusNJdGordon: not sure i have a better name, perhaps "ata_idle_xxx" or something?
10:04:37LinusNJdGordon: i think bass/treble too
10:04:45Paul_the_NerdJdGordon: Anything measured in dB probably.
10:04:49 Quit muesliii (".")
10:04:54LinusNJdGordon: why "access"?
10:05:12JdGordonok, ata_idle_cb
10:05:23JdGordonbecause, the idea is so you can acess the disk
10:05:42webguest30LinusN: so will it be committed (many topics at the same time. no ;-)?
10:05:51LinusNwebguest30: guess so
10:09:56myzari say
10:10:30myzaryes Paul_the_Nerd
10:10:40myzari am indeed the force that binds us all for a cause
10:11:00myzarwatch as the show unfolds
10:11:07LinusNyou bind the galaxy together
10:11:11*scorche grabs the popcorn
10:11:52myzary is better than e
10:12:09scorchepossibly, but it means something
10:12:29myzarmeaning is irrelevant
10:12:36myzarthe only thing that matters in this world is the soul
10:13:01*scorche wonders if myzar took his meds today
10:13:17*LinusN deletes his similar comment
10:13:31JdGordonumm... we have a problem... the damn list button function disabled the wrap setting for the list, which means there is no nice way to permanently disable it :'(
10:13:31myzarguys, guys
10:13:36myzaryou need to think outside the box
10:13:42myzaryou need to think hip, think different
10:13:47myzarget an apple today
10:13:53scorchei have one
10:14:07*Paul_the_Nerd burns it.
10:14:12myzarthe progress train is now boarding
10:14:14myzarall aboard.
10:14:27JdGordonmyzar isnt dongs reincarnated is he?
10:14:27scorcheand i only got it because it was free >_>
10:14:40JdGordonlifes a bitch aye scorche?
10:14:46scorcheit can be
10:14:58myzardongs. heh
10:15:09scorchei kind of miss the guy
10:15:15myzardunno who he is, sadly
10:15:32scorcheit was fun to see what holes he would put into his own thoughts next
10:16:26LinusNmarkun: i'll commit the patch
10:16:43*scorche also thinks about how thinking apple is thinking different considering their user base
10:16:47markunLinusN: thanks
10:16:53myzarshhhhhhhhh scorche
10:17:03myzaror the progress train will leave without you
10:17:24 Quit webguest30 ("CGI:IRC")
10:18:18LinusNscorche: you mean think like sheep?
10:19:12*scorche glances over to myzar as he hears a faint "baaa" emit from myzar's lips
10:19:40myzarscorche, scorche, scorche
10:19:59myzarit was the wolf that tried to blend in with the sheep's clothing
10:20:17myzarhe was shot by the hunter
10:20:24scorcheactually he blended in with the sheep *by* putting on sheep's clothing
10:20:26scorcheclose though
10:20:39myzarwith the sheep's clothing implies he put on sheep's clothing means he tried to blend in with a wool sweater
10:21:07myzarsilly scorche
10:21:21myzaryou jest, yet you don't apply the philosophy to real world situations
10:21:30myzarin short, microsoft's reign over the market is over
10:21:33myzarLONG LIVE APPLE!
10:21:39myzarVIVA LA REVOLUCION!
10:21:45myzar(just kidding)
10:21:45 Join Life [0] (
10:22:13Lifedoes rockbox work with the newest firmware?
10:22:28LinusNLife: newest firmware of what?
10:22:29rasherIf you told us which platform, it'd be easier to say
10:22:32Lifefor ipod nano
10:23:05Paul_the_NerdI've heard yes and no both for 1.3
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10:23:18Paul_the_NerdThough most of the "nos" have been installation problems that suggest the user didn't follow the instructions quite right
10:23:36scorchei *think* it works as long as you follow along with the 1.2 instructions int he wiki
10:23:57Paul_the_NerdIt should, yes.
10:24:11Lifehmm, can't say i read the entire manual, but i did follow the installation section to the letter, and it get stranded on step 6 for windows users
10:24:36Lifeyes, the command for the 1.2 doesn't work quite right
10:24:57Paul_the_NerdHow 'bout sharing what error msg you get?
10:24:58Lifeipod_fw claims it "can't find apple_os.bin"
10:25:19rasherSound like step 4 went wrong
10:25:27rasherI think.
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10:25:42Paul_the_NerdWhat files have you in your folder?
10:25:45Lifewell, i'll do it again and we'll find out
10:25:51Liferoot folder?
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10:26:25Paul_the_NerdThe folder you're running the commands from...
10:26:34LifeCalendars, Contacts, iPod_Control, Notes, .rockbox and rockbox.ipod
10:26:46Lifeoh, that's mah desktop, so there's lotsa stuff on there
10:26:47linuxstb_According to the posts here, it seems the 1.2 instructions work fine for the 1.3 firmware:
10:27:04linuxstb_(the problems posted there are just the usual problems we see)
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10:27:30Lifethe relevant files on my desktop are:
10:28:18Lifebootloader-nano.bin, ipodpatcher.exe, ipod_fw.exe, bootpartition.bin, rockboot.bin and apple_os.bin
10:28:45linuxstbYou also need to do the extra step for the Video ipod and 1.2 Nano.
10:29:06Life"the extra step" is described where?
10:29:17Paul_the_NerdStep 5.
10:29:32Lifeyeah, that gave me bootpartition.bin
10:29:41Paul_the_NerdNo, it didn't.
10:29:47JdGordonyay for inverted logic :p
10:29:52Paul_the_NerdStep 3 gave you bootpartition.bin
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10:30:01Paul_the_NerdStep 5 cuts a chunk out of it and creates the other .bin file
10:30:18Lifethe rcsc file?
10:30:35Lifeoh, yeah, that's in there as well
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10:30:49Lifedidn't place it in the group along with the others, so i didn't see it
10:30:59Life(dual screen, large desktop)
10:31:34linuxstbAre apple_os.bin and apple_sw_5g_rcsc.bin different sizes?
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10:33:25Lifeyes, apple_os.bin is 5.3MB, apple_sw_5g_alqwbkleg is 16MB
10:33:53linuxstbThat sounds right.
10:34:05linuxstbApart from the alqwbkleg filename....
10:34:48Lifeno, that's me getting tired of slow typing
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10:38:33Lifehmm, works now. after i figured out i forgot to put -o in there
10:38:46Lifeguess i forgot to put -i or -g in there last time... twice :/
10:39:15*JdGordon is getting thorouglhy confused with this logic stuff :p
10:39:45*Life advises JdGordon not to install linux.
10:40:04*Life considers himself adequat in logic, but has one hell of a hard time getting linux to function properly
10:40:28JdGordon$ uname -o
10:40:58linuxstbLinusN: The patch you just committed for the pitch screen assigns BUTTON_SELECT to two different actions on the ipod...
10:42:03Lifebtw, where to manually ram in music files, if i don't want to use tag cache?
10:42:11Lifesame folder(s)?
10:42:28linuxstbBUTTON_PLAY looks unused, I'll fix.
10:43:42amiconnJdGordon: Archos even spins down between rebuffers in the wavplay plugin
10:44:58*amiconn spots the talk about volume wrap
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10:47:33JdGordonyup, its almost done... but im having fun with the stupid limit scroll functon...
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10:48:02LinusNi don't find it stupid
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10:51:57Lifewth? i can put the music files anywhere?
10:52:01Lifeeven in the root? o.O
10:52:09JdGordonyeah, why not?
10:52:18Lifedidn't know rockbox would look there for em
10:52:39JdGordonwoot... wrap is not disabled in any setting which uses the dB unit.. should i make it more specific or good enough?
10:54:56amiconnI never had a problem with wrapping volume. With earphones, I don't come even near the volume boundaries
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10:55:11amiconnAnd for line out operation, I don't touch volume at all
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10:55:40JdGordonneither, but there has been alot of stink over it... and the fix actually makes list buttons more useable
10:56:21Bonusbartusis there anyone who can help me with some questions about the hXX0 remote controll?
10:57:30JdGordonjust ask the quesiton...
10:57:37amiconnJdGordon: Does it? I lik ethe settings wrap
10:57:58rasheramiconn: might happen by accident
10:58:06rashera min->max wrap could be pretty damaging
10:58:12rasherto equipment or hearing
10:58:36linuxstbamiconn: I played star for the first time since your rewrite, and it's looking nice. But it's far too slow on my 5g - both the object movement animations, and the fades between levels. It could do with being at least twice as fast.
10:59:19JdGordonamiconn: im indifferent, but others are really against the wrap... shall we do a quick vote in the channel or something?
10:59:25BonusbartusI posted it on the forum already, but I didn't get the answer I looked for ;) I'm trying to build a IR remote control for my h340 and h120, the receiver part is ready, but I need to connect it to my player
10:59:54rasherOh nice. I managed to crash Rockbox for the first time in ages. By pressing play to resume, and then stop quick after
10:59:55amiconnThe wrap might be somewhat problematic for volume, but for all other settings I vote for keeping it
11:00:08amiconnBut that makes volume a special case
11:00:16aliaskBonusbartus: How do you intend connecting the IR receiver?
11:00:28LinusNBonusbartus: the remote buttons are connected to a resistor network, which is in turn connected to an A/D converter
11:01:13BonusbartusI have an unused h100 remote with a damaged display so I could use the cable from it, I found the resistor values you put somewhere on the site linus, so that s not realy a problem
11:01:17rasherHas anyone ever managed to play BrickMania on a H120? I can't see a damn thing
11:01:32Lifehmm, i just added an album to my iPod, and it wasn't there in the artists list, or any other list
11:01:40Bonusbartusbut How do I get the player to See and recognise the remote
11:01:57Slasherieasier would be to connect a bluetooth module to the internal serial port of the player
11:02:00JdGordonamiconn: im happy to make volume a special case, Paul_the_Nerdsuggested i do all settings which use the dB unit
11:02:06rasherLife: Are you using Tag cache? You might have to update it
11:02:12amiconnrasher: You can play it in a sufficiently warm environment
11:02:14Lifeno, i'm not
11:02:42Lifei just threw the files from my computer into the ipod, no encryption by iTunes done, and it wasn't in there
11:02:48rasherDid you unmount it properly? I forget the windows terms.. safe remove?
11:02:51amiconnlinuxstb: Make the lcd updates on 5G faster...
11:02:51BonusbartusSlasheri: Not realy what I wanted, I want to put it next to my home hifi system and use it with my hifi remote controll
11:03:13linuxstbamiconn: :) I could try boosting the CPU in the two animation functions...
11:03:16Slasheriah.. i just would like to use my cell phone to control the player inside my pocket
11:03:27Lifei did safely remove it
11:03:27JdGordonLinusN: rasher: do i make volume a special case? or all dB settings.. or what?
11:03:28rasheramiconn: It's mainly the powerups I can't see. It's just a blur
11:03:59rasherJdGordon: I don't think it's important for anything but volume, but I don't have a strong opinion either way
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11:04:37rasherLife: If you copied it, and safely removed it, and are not using Tag cache, you simply browse to the folder in the browser and play
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11:05:02JdGordonfine, volume will be a special case
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11:05:46BonusbartusLinusN: I found out in the cpu doc you wrote that there is an RC_detect on gpi30, but I cant find how it is made to see a remote?
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11:06:39linuxstbLife: What "artists list" are you talking about? If you are not using tagcache, Rockbox doesn't have an option to show a list of artists...
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11:07:13Lifeyes, it does, but i forgot what setting to do it by, so it's hard to explain
11:07:54Lifeunless i was using tag cache without wanting to, which could perfectly be possible
11:08:07Lifebut i tried to go over all the options to make sure i wasn't
11:08:20Slasheriif you are using tagcache, you probably want set it to automatically update
11:08:30Lifeanyway, with my level of expertise...
11:08:32Slasheriand perhaps load it to ram also
11:08:43rasherGo here..
11:08:48Lifeblech, w/e i'm gonna make some manual directories to put my music in so i can just use the filebrowser
11:08:56rasherGeneral settings > File View > Show files
11:09:02rasherand tell us where it's set at
11:09:56rasherThen the files you just copied are where you copied them to.
11:10:01rasherUnless you didn't safely remove.
11:10:02LinusNBonusbartus: the voltage on that pin tells you which remote type it is, we read it with the A/D converter
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11:10:18LinusNBonusbartus: see firmware/drivers/lcd-h100-remote.c
11:12:19BonusbartusLinusN: hmm I'm not very good with c but I take a look in it, but I couldnt find to what that pin was connected? is it connected to the A/D converter?
11:13:03LinusNi must say that i don't really remember how it is connected in the remote
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11:14:23amiconnlinuxstb: Even with fast lcd updates, animation gets slower proportionally to lcd size, as all animation is done in single-pixel steps
11:14:40amiconnMaybe we should adjust animation step size depending on lcd size
11:15:00BonusbartusLinusN: As far as I can tell with the docs on site, The A/D converter is connected directly to the cpu and no parts of the remote plug are connected to the RC_Detect
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11:15:40LinusNBonusbartus: yes, i haven't drawn those parts in the schematics
11:16:09LinusNmainly because i didn't reverse engineer that part of the electronics
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11:16:40linuxstbamiconn: Yes, I'm just trying that now. Also, in the transition function, the four separate lcd_update_rect() calls will be slower than a single lcd_update_rect() on the 5g - we need to wait a minimum of about 14ms between updates.
11:17:43oboJdGordon: FS #5990 - anything happening with that?
11:17:52BonusbartusLinusN: hmm so the only way to connect my home made remote would be to make sure that the A/D receives exact the same values as with an original remote, or write some sort of patch for it?
11:18:36JdGordonobo: im not sure, i tihnk we are waiting for someone to come up with a design that doesnt feel wierd (i.e the scroll bar must be verticle)
11:19:33oboJdGordon: I must learn to check flyspray - I started writing that at the weekend before checking for it's existance :( (but again was horizontal)
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11:20:26jhMikeSwhy should the slider be vertical for setting int setting? that's not right.
11:20:44JdGordonyeah, using left/right is bad for the blind, and using up/down with a horizontal slider is bad for the sigted.. so we do need sometihng..
11:21:05*JdGordon is off.... and leaving too :p back in a few hours
11:21:32BonusbartusLinusN: Only one cable is connected directly to the ADC, RC_BTN, I hope that means that I only have to simulate the voltages in the button resistor network, so it wouldn't be a problem to not simulate the display and such?
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11:22:00jhMikeSWhy's it bad for the blind? you think they wouldn't pick up on it? did any actually say it was difficult?
11:22:42Paul_the_NerdjhMikeS: You use left/right to navigate the *vast* majority of settings, but you can't see that an INT setting looks different, so left/right will no longer navigate menus but instead change the setting, causing at least some confusion, I imagine.
11:23:02Paul_the_NerdYou don't have the visual feedback of the bar, so you don't see why the controls have changed just for those specific screens, right?
11:23:21obocouldn't you voice the value as it's changed?
11:23:23LinusNBonusbartus: no, it is not the RC_BTN pin
11:24:29amiconnBonusbartus: The LCD i/f is write-only, so the CPU doesn't even notice when there is no LCD
11:25:32Bonusbartusjust iunstalling vmware again, my pc crashed so it'll take a few minutes to set up everything again...
11:26:28BonusbartusSo I would have to simulate the resistor network for the buttons to function, an another value for the rc to be detected as an H100 remote
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11:29:15pondlifeobo: Is now fixed?
11:29:31jhMikeSPaul_the_Nerd: good point...however nothings stopping non-int settings from being horizontal either
11:30:38obopondlife: AFAIK it is - I'll check tonight and request a re-open if it isn't?
11:30:48pondlifeOK, I'll close it then!
11:30:52Paul_the_NerdjhMikeS: I personally think using up and down to navigate the slider isn't *too* confusing.
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11:39:49jhMikeSI think use both, setting a setting doesn't have to be consitent with navigating menus
11:39:56amiconnUsing Up& down for a left-right slider _is_ confusing imho
11:40:21jhMikeSas long as it's consistent itself
11:40:28amiconnI'd rather keep the list, iT#s quite intuitive and precise
11:40:37DeefIn the iriver firmware.. anyone know how to just skip to the next track?
11:40:38Paul_the_NerdThe list is quite fine with me. :)
11:40:55Paul_the_NerdDeef: Have you tried pressing "Right"?
11:41:02DeefIt seeks =|
11:41:06DeefTap or hold both seek
11:41:14Paul_the_NerdYou probably have study mode on.
11:41:59Deefah yes
11:42:46DeefYou were right btw
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11:43:00DeefI didn't mean intuitive, I meant something else
11:43:36Paul_the_NerdSome differentiation could definitely make it easier to tell where you are at a glance though.
11:43:40DeefI blame lack of sleep for being too tired to think hard enough
11:43:44jhMikeSuse up/left for decrement and down/right for increment and select for setting it. use another convenient button on the player to cancel. could reverse the up/down if that makes more sense.
11:44:10DeefSorry for the tension anyway
11:44:27Paul_the_NerdEh, I'm a bit of a jerk about semantics, and it gets on people pretty easily.
11:44:46barrywardellLinusN: did you ever get around to trying jtag with the sansa?
11:44:49Paul_the_NerdBut at the same time, there are plenty of times when people come in here and I really do have no *idea* even roughly what they mean.
11:45:02jhMikeSPaul_the_Nerd: nah...not so bad :)
11:45:26barrywardellLinusN: i've been trying to get it working with my h10, but haven't had success yet
11:45:35linuxstbbarrywardell: Did you ever speak to davidc in the IPL project about it?
11:45:39jhMikeScouldn't be worse than I when nitpicking
11:46:01barrywardelllinuxstb: not yet. he hasn't been on there the times i have checked
11:46:13Paul_the_NerdDeef: Way I see it, what could help a lot would actually be making the icons both themeable and able to be full color bitmaps instead of mono. Then they'd be quite a bit more visible at a glance, possibly.
11:46:27Paul_the_NerdIt would make things look 'nicer' and add an additional visual cue.
11:46:51*Deef nods
11:47:12linuxstbPaul_the_Nerd: Which icons are you talking about?
11:47:14jhMikeSPaul_the_Nerd: yes, I want those color icons...had it on my own future TODO.
11:47:21DeefI see that the irivier firmware doesn't go too hard on the graphics either
11:47:26DeefJust icons and the like
11:47:36jhMikeSand larger ones on less cramped screens
11:47:40Paul_the_Nerdlinuxstb: Filetree icons for folders and such, as well as those defined in viewers.config.
11:47:55linuxstbThe problem with those is that they need to match the font size...
11:48:06DeefBut dammit the iriver navigation is killing me as well heh
11:48:29Paul_the_Nerdlinuxstb: Make lines the height of the icon or the height of the font, whichever is larger?
11:48:33LinusNbarrywardell: no, i haven't had time to work on that
11:48:42Paul_the_NerdBesides, if the icons are themable, then you design the icon to the fontsize of the theme anyway.
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11:48:59jhMikeSHow do they match the font size if they're always the same size? :\
11:49:16barrywardellLinusN: ok, thanks. i'll keep looking out for davidc on ipodlinux. maybe he can help
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11:52:47jhMikeSWhy not include icons of various sizes available in general? Maybe even a new file format with multiple images of different sizes for each icon.
11:53:25jhMikeSkind of, but more flexible for our purposes
11:53:48Paul_the_NerdWhy not leave the icons for the default font size for the target, and just give themers the option to create their own for their theme?
11:53:53jhMikeSno size restrictions, and a library of all needed images
11:54:14rasherThe man has a point
11:54:28jhMikeSIf I change my font I'd like the images to follow
11:54:32Paul_the_NerdThough I'm honestly not sure how to integrate it with viewers.config
11:55:22Paul_the_NerdjhMikeS: Instead of "Browse Fonts" have a Font folder with .cfg files that load the font, and a size-appropriate icon-only theme for that font. :-P
11:55:43linuxstbOr add icons to the font (every font...)
11:56:20rasherOr make it work like voices, which are in the same files as languages, but in a filename that is hidden usually
11:56:56jhMikeSnah, it can be made pretty simple, like a rockbox-XxY.icons file
11:59:25jhMikeSThe theme deginer could use the stock file or design their own with images of special size or appearance to go with the theme then.
12:00:44Paul_the_NerdThe way I see it, you could drop the icon hex from viewers.config
12:00:48jhMikeSEven have images default back to the stock icon lib when not in the theme.
12:01:00jhMikeSPaul_the_Nerd: yes, use an icon id instead
12:01:08Paul_the_NerdThen you have an icons.config that is a list of icon filenames, and the associated file extension (with perhaps a keyword for "Music" and "Playlist" files)
12:01:32Paul_the_NerdAnd of course, themes can include an override icons.config that points to replacement images in their theme folder.
12:03:19jhMikeSWas thinking of keeping all icons in a single file to keep the number of files to a minimum
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12:03:36Paul_the_NerdjhMikeS: Makes it hard for a user to create them then.
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12:04:04Paul_the_NerdPut them in a /icons/ folder under the theme folder perhaps, and then if there's an idea for single-file themes that actually makes it through the guantlet, it resolves that problem
12:04:07jhMikeSEven if a tool is provided to build it?
12:04:23linuxstbDon't forget different icons might be needed for main unit and remote...
12:04:40rasherOnly if different fonts become possible..
12:04:42jhMikeSlinuxstb: that's a must have
12:04:53linuxstbe.g. color for H300 main LCD, mono for remote.
12:05:10jhMikeSIt shouldn't have any bearing on fonts being different
12:05:47linuxstbIf the user can choose a small font for the remote, and a large font for the LCD, the icons need to match as well.
12:05:48jhMikeSmaybe I misunderstood that ?
12:06:27linuxstbi.e. At the moment, it's just color-depth that can vary between screens, but in the future hopefully size can vary as well.
12:06:32Paul_the_Nerdlinuxstb: But that's the same as separate WPS from RWPS, you just have /icons/ and /ricons/ or whatnot
12:06:33jhMikeSWould be about time for that imo. Right now trying to display things on both screens tends to sacrific the larger one to the smaller
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12:08:13Paul_the_NerdI just think that color icons would take it from "A text based UI layered on a backdrop" to looking more like the modern UI everyone expects of it. It really wouldn't be a drastic change, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people felt a great difference just from a nice colour folder icon.
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12:09:33jhMikeSWas also thinking about implementing popups for context menus, splashes and message boxes and whatever else works, suppose thats basically adding windows P
12:09:59Paul_the_NerdThat would be a subset of the "viewport" initiative, I think
12:10:07jhMikeSneeds to be small still
12:10:48jhMikeSMy understanding was viewports weren't going to appear any different than what we have now from the outside
12:11:27Paul_the_NerdViewports don't *have* to appear any different.
12:11:50rasherCreate a viewport in the middle of the screen and BOOM, you have a popup
12:11:57rasherwith a nice frame etc, of course
12:11:58Paul_the_NerdMy understanding was that they essentially allow subscreens to be rendered to, so you could have the menu popup within its own frame, or text scroll within a limited area, etc.
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12:12:27jhMikeSwe need clipping / and or z-buffer to hide drawing underneath it in that case
12:13:49linuxstbClipping is what viewports will do.
12:14:01Paul_the_NerdAlso, I'd just like to note, we missed the Fireworks release target. :-
12:14:13jhMikeSlinuxstb: Hmmm...wasn't under that impression
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12:17:42linuxstbjhMikeS: So what would you expect to happen when a viewport is created in the middle of the screen and a menu drawn into that viewport?
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12:21:40jhMikeSlinuxstb: some dialogue I had previously was that each screen would be a viewport unto itself but still full screen
12:22:08linuxstbThat would just be how the initial implementation would work - to maintain backwards compatibility.
12:22:28linuxstbi.e. a default full-screen viewport.
12:22:37Paul_the_NerdIf a theme doesn't define viewports, then they default to looking like Rockbox does now, right?
12:23:06jhMikeSnot sure why that's needed for backwards compatibility. spashes could be updated right away to take advantage.
12:23:22linuxstbI recall that being talked about in relation to WPSs.
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12:24:14linuxstbi.e. one of the main reasons for viewports is to make nicer WPSs, but we don't want to break existing ones if we can avoid it.
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12:25:06Kasperlewhat does rockbox want to tell me with "error accessing playlist control file"?
12:25:12jhMikeSAll screens as currently implemented should use a fullscreen viewport, yes but the splash screens needn't heed that.
12:26:00Paul_the_NerdKasperle: Honestly, Rockbox occasionally tells users that even on 'working' iPods, on occasion. It's *possible* that you've found a way to agitate an existing bug into consistency.
12:26:01jhMikeSThen the yes/no can be a message box. It's not themed either except maybe with colors.
12:26:53Paul_the_NerdjhMikeS: It would lose its backdrop, but that could be replaced with the "background color" whatever that's set at.
12:28:29linuxstbWe should have more colours defined in Rockbox - so splashes (and message boxes if we go that route) can have their own colours. Can users even have different colours in the WPS at the moment?
12:28:32jhMikeSI think additional color preferences should be added. But yeah, the current splash uses another color but always light gray.
12:29:13linuxstbWe probably don't want to make them all changable via the settings menu though - just in a theme .cfg.
12:30:22Paul_the_NerdWhy not a ThemeBox plugin, that can output a .cfg but only offers the visual-related options?
12:30:27jhMikeSDisplay->LCD Settings->Colo(u)rs-><list of changeable ones> ??
12:30:30preglowman seems to think sh == dash
12:31:17rasherpreglow: small posix shell
12:31:20Paul_the_NerdThat would bridge the gap between .cfg only, and having an overstuffed display menu
12:31:28rasherstandard in edgy rather than bash
12:31:45rasherKeeps us on our toes
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12:32:35preglowrasher: really? i'm using edgy myself right now
12:32:38jhMikeSCould even have a nifty graphical preview, set them all from one screen and actually and fit it there.
12:32:52rasherpreglow: and ls -l /bin/sh says?
12:33:08rasherThere you go
12:33:15preglowbut i'm using bash, apparently
12:33:38rasherHm, some users were getting dash. Did you perhaps upgrade from dapper?
12:33:48preglowprobably because i upgraded, yes
12:34:09preglowi should start using zsh again anyway
12:35:42FireFly_rasher: what about users which don't use debian?
12:35:45jhMikeSI think the backlight settings should be split up under a backlight submenu if the target has a lot of options for it. Wouldn't really bother me if it varied from player to player.
12:35:58rasherFireFly_: What?
12:36:09FireFly_in my system there is no dash ;)
12:36:17FireFly_and i'm not using debian
12:36:23rasherThat's.. fine?
12:36:42rasherI'm not quite sure what the question is
12:36:44rasherIf there is one
12:36:58FireFly_with your changes in the scripts the scripts won't run on other systems
12:37:19rasherI was correcting mistakes
12:37:24rasherThere is no "==" in test
12:38:00rasherAt least, "=" is what posix says
12:38:16FireFly_you have also changed the first line in
12:38:18jhMikeSand the name "Caption Backlight" is a bit cryptic imho
12:38:24rasherFireFly_: Ah!
12:38:28FireFly_form #!/bin/sh to #!/bin/dash
12:38:29rasherWell that was a mistake :)
12:38:48jhMikeSok, 'nuff preaching :P, back to work
12:39:15rasherI had no idea..
12:39:25preglowrasher: why'd they start using dash as the standard shell anyway?
12:39:38rasherMainly for init scripts I think. It's faster
12:39:43rashershaved a few seconds off boot time
12:40:27Kasperleit's also more standards compatible
12:40:43rasherDepends what you mean
12:40:50rasherIt implements POSIX and not really much more
12:40:59rasherBash implements posix and a whole bunch of other stuff
12:41:24rasherI wouldn't really call one more standards compatible than the other
12:41:25Kasperlethe other stuff is what makes people use bash and thus break compatibility with systems without bash and especially /bin/sh not being bash
12:41:53rasherWell, that's not a problem you need to consider if you're selecting a default shell, really
12:42:30Kasperlesometimes people need to be educated "the hard way" ;)
12:42:56jhMikeShmm...the H120 gets way better radio reception than the x5
12:43:13rasherI'm sure most people will just set their shell to bash and get on with their lives
12:43:22*linuxstb wonders why POSIX chose a single = for comparisons
12:43:52Kasperlerasher: that's fine. but they might learn that /bin/sh is not necessarily bash in the process.
12:44:48rasherPerhaps. I usually start out as /bin/bash, then test with dash and change to /bin/sh if I need to. Of course, that's assuming I don't cock up as I did just now.
12:45:11FireFly_linuxstb: because the syntax for an assignment is BLA="blub" and not BLA = "blub" i guess
12:45:37rasherThat still doesn't excuse using = only in difference to decades of tradition
12:45:46rasher(possibly less at the time, but still)
12:46:16rasherI mean, sure they didn't HAVE to, but it'd have been nice
12:46:20linuxstbFireFly_: I never realised that, but it still hurts my eyes to see it.
12:46:40FireFly_rasher also configure have now #!/bin/dash :)
12:46:51rasherFireFly_: oh christ
12:49:07FireFly_rasher vor testing the scripts with different shells you can start the script like that: <shell-bin> <shell-script>
12:49:54rasherYeah, it's just habit. I usually change to dash at some point while writing the script
12:50:09rasherand just leave it until I'm done
12:51:46amiconnAll that talk about colour icons & other graphical crap...
12:52:57*jhMikeS likes graphical crap
12:53:45preglowas long as it's not charcell i'm fine with it
12:53:48preglowbut a pretty rockbox would be cool
12:53:51preglownow someone do it!
12:55:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:55:29jhMikeSgradient fills uber alles :P
12:55:38LinusNi think a classical gui with icons in a grid would be nice
12:56:11jhMikeSLike Windows 3.1?
12:56:23preglowwould definitely be a good and logical start
12:56:33linuxstbI can never recognise what icons mean..
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12:57:28jhMikeSI think if icons are well designed to be distinct they don't even have to make sense pictorially for what represents
12:57:36LinusNin my view, there would be both icons and text
12:57:59hcsthe circle is play, the oval is stop, the two circles is options...
12:58:00jhMikeSAs long as you can develop the reflex about what it represents in context
12:58:34jhMikeSI think killing text outright would be a mistake too
12:59:05rasherIcons and a single text string at the bottom of the screen describing the currently selected item
12:59:13rasherSo you have a chance to learn
12:59:31jhMikeSrasher: exactly
12:59:54aliaskI can't forget this layout:
13:00:01jhMikeSthe icons do help with being speedy once you're trained
13:00:14linuxstbI'm perfectly happy with Rockbox's current text-only UI - it just needs making a little prettier (better use of colour, larger fonts for large LCDs, better icons etc).
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13:00:36aliasklinuxstb: Careful... "better icons" ... :)
13:01:09*amiconn actually prefers a textual menu over icons
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13:01:19amiconnEven though I do like graphical UIs
13:01:32jhMikeSthat could be a theme. it looks nice and has the gloss I like
13:02:01rasherTango icons are nice
13:02:07jhMikeSIf we're careful, "textual" could be a theme itself
13:02:16rasherExcept the blue folder icon. Don't like that.
13:02:31aliaskChange the hue in photoshop :)
13:02:33jhMikeSfolders are manilla...period ;)
13:02:51amiconnWith icons, I often have to guess what they mean (or move to them in order to see some popup text)
13:03:03linuxstbamiconn: I'm with you there.
13:03:18aliaskI think if all icons have accompanying text, it shouldn't be a problem.
13:03:29amiconnMany newer cellphones have their main menu implemented as icons.
13:03:32jhMikeSbut there's text there...once I have a strong association with them they only need be recognizeable
13:03:38amiconnaliask: Then it's just a waste of space
13:03:52jhMikeSno it's not
13:03:53aliaskBut it looks much nicer
13:03:56hcsmy phone is fairly low resolution but still has text and icons
13:04:08hcsonly one on a screen at a time, though
13:04:09linuxstbaliask: No it doesn't - it just looks like Windows 3.1...
13:04:26rasherI really think that icons only, and a single, changing piece of text is the way to go if you want an icon-interface
13:04:31aliaskDo those icons in the image I linked look like Windows 3.1?
13:04:53rasherMy phone has that, but the icons are hideous, so I use a text-menu with small icons instead
13:05:17hcsrasher: Nokia?
13:05:19rasheraliask: that's just a text-menu with icons
13:05:21rasherhcs: yup
13:05:29jhMikeSThey make navigation speedier when you gain experience. I can look at the icons in my context menu for WinRar and such and find it faster with a pictue
13:05:33aliaskrasher: Anything wrong with that?
13:05:35linuxstbaliask: No. I was referiing to Linus's grid suggeston.
13:06:05aliaskWhile I don't mind the grid idea, I would prefer the icon with text approach.
13:06:09rasheraliask: not at all, but I believe most people were talking about the "grid" thing
13:07:02 Join petur [0] (i=d4efd6a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
13:07:21 Quit barrywardell ()
13:07:22jhMikeSrasher: me too, dumping text makes thing harder for the noob. dumping icons harder for the experienced.
13:07:57 Quit hannesd (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:09:50jhMikeSI thought the pitchscreen was supposed to use semitones now...I still see % there...or I forgot to update :P
13:10:04linuxstbThe mode is toggled via a button press.
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13:10:44rasherAh, time for another "do not reply if you want to create a new thread" mail, I see.
13:11:07rasherThere should be laws against doing that
13:11:08jhMikeSAhh... ok .. I think it should increment in 1/100th semitones (cents in musical terms) and use semitones for the coarse adjustment
13:11:39rasherAs well as sending "test" mails.
13:11:52jhMikeSWierd it stops at 199.9%
13:12:01linuxstbrasher: Point people to list archive so they can see what a mess replying causes for threaded viewers.
13:12:11linuxstb^to the list archive
13:12:20 Quit Mmmm (Remote closed the connection)
13:13:03rasherlinuxstb: I was just commenting that Febs just posted one
13:13:46linuxstbrasher: Just read that myself..
13:14:19FebsYeah, I was going to put something in about top posting too, but I figured, baby steps.
13:15:00rasherI have a feeling many of the offenders are blind, so it's sortof understandable in some ways, I suppose, although they'd still benefit from getting discussions grouped better
13:15:39rasherAnd top-posting I'll allow for blind people, unless their screen reader knows to skip quotes
13:16:13rasherI can only imagine having to listen to the same post a couple of times during a discussion because people (including me, some times) don't know how to trim
13:16:34rasherNow middle-posting...
13:16:40FebsI *did* notice your lack of trimming on the ipod backlight discussion ;)
13:17:41rasherI did trim, just only the stuff below what I wanted to answer. Forgot the bits above it for some reasons.
13:18:19*jhMikeS hopes there's no code anywhere in rb that calls buffer_alloc after initializing audio without explicitly obtaining the pointer first. Just a pitfall of using that interface...
13:31:49oboafter audio_init or mp3_init?
13:31:59*JdGordon is back, did i miss anything interesting?
13:33:52jhMikeSobo: yes. audio and voice must be stopped first and buffer marked as trashed before using it. a call to audio_get_buffer will do that.
13:33:59*amiconn thinks the cellphone UIs are getting worse instead of better
13:34:23*aliask generally agrees
13:34:50amiconnMy first had a pure text menu. Nice and simple. The second one too. My current one has a main menu with icons which takes longer to operate than a text menu
13:35:26jhMikeSbuffer_alloc nibbles away at the start of RAM right where the voice file is stored or the file buffer starts if no voice.
13:35:32amiconnAt least the icons have a selected state that can be recognised. The last cellphone UI I saw (Siemens CF75) doesn't even have that
13:35:33*petur doesn't waste time and money on cellphones
13:36:14rasherWhy must mkswap mock me so
13:36:18preglowand i just plain and simple hate the buggers
13:36:26rashermkswap: error: swap area needs to be at least 40kB
13:37:03jhMikeSactually the codec malloc block is before the file buffer
13:37:44JdGordonLinusN: should i commit the ata stuff with a new name and with the audio buffering ifdeffed out for archos?
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13:39:44JdGordondoes anyone have a better name than ata_idle_callback?
13:40:13 Join rasher [0] (
13:40:37DeefWhat is the difference between 'Directory' and 'Directory All' in the stock firmware?
13:40:42 Quit Febs (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
13:41:00DeefBeen messing with it on repeat and can't see what Directory All means
13:41:06jhMikeSJdGordon: If I knew what it was for I could think about meaningfully
13:41:06Paul_the_NerdDeef: Many of us haven't used the original in quite some time
13:41:15 Quit aliask ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
13:41:16Deeffair enough
13:41:28DeefThe manual doesn't explain it either
13:41:35JdGordonjhMikeS: the set of functions so apps/ can be told when the hdd is adle and about to shutdown
13:41:41JdGordonso they can do stuff
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13:42:28jhMikeScan they refuse a request and keep it active?
13:43:03JdGordonits if they have stuff which needs to be written/read to disk but not urgently
13:43:13jhMikeSata_idle_notify ?
13:43:33JdGordonbeaut even
13:43:52jhMikeSor even ata_on_idle_callback
13:44:02JdGordonidle_notify is shorter
13:44:36jhMikeS*_callback seems more consistent with tradition though
13:44:54rasherDeef: Do you mean Sfl [DA] and Sfl [D]?
13:44:57 Quit NickDe ("Leaving")
13:45:14DeefYes but without the shuffle
13:45:54JdGordondo all the archos use the HWCODEC?
13:46:11DeefStrange that it uses different icons too...
13:46:16rasherDeef: That doesn't exist..
13:46:37rasherAt least not in 1.65
13:46:39Deefyeah, I got it, nevermind
13:46:49DeefThe manual calls it directory all
13:46:54DeefWhen its just directory repeat
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13:47:07DeefDidn't notice until I realise the icons were different
13:47:24Deef(Manual says Directory and Directory All for both modes)
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13:48:53jhMikeSJdGordon: If I search config*.h for MAS I get six archos players listed. Is that all of them?
13:49:02JdGordoni guess so
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13:49:51Deef.. and 1.65 Rasher?
13:50:01DeefNot talking about the H300s I guess
13:50:19DeefOr is it up to that now and I have no idea
13:51:55Paul_the_Nerd1.65 is the second most recent H100 series firmware
13:52:46rasherAh, right.
13:53:00amiconnJdGordon: What's that audio buffering thing you were talking about?
13:53:03rasherAnd now, for my next trick, I will resize a live ext3 partition.
13:53:53JdGordonamiconn: playback.c will refill the buffer if it is under 75% if the disk is spinning, linus doesnt want that for low mem targets because its possible it never shutsdown the disk
13:55:02rasherJdGordon: Why not just MEM_SIZE or whatever the define is
13:55:09Life^what can be the cause of rockbox not playing the music files i've put on my ipod?
13:55:22JdGordonbecuase it doesnt look like MEM is defined properly anywhere...
13:55:23amiconnJdGordon: Hmm, I don't think it is a good idea to do this
13:55:32Life^it's found them, and displays all the properties (songname, songlength, everything)
13:55:35 Quit FireFly_ ("Leaving")
13:55:36JdGordonamiconn: why not?
13:55:40Life^but it doesn't play them when it should
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13:55:45rasherLife^: what kind of file??
13:55:50amiconnDisk never shutting down might very well happen on newer targets as well if the rebuffering is slow due to high load
13:55:55amiconn....e.g. on ipod
13:55:55Life^.mp3 or .wmv
13:56:12rasherWell, wmv is not supported, so that's easy.
13:56:17rasherNor wma.
13:56:26rasherAre you sure an mp3 is not playing?
13:56:27amiconnAm I the only one who gets the effect that rebuffering takes _ages_ on ipod?
13:56:50Life^yes, quite
13:57:12rasherLife^: Is anything about it special?
13:57:15JdGordonjhMikeS: just a number i picked...
13:57:21JdGordonwould 50$ be better?
13:57:28rasher50$ would be nice
13:57:39Life^hmm, maybe the dir i put the music in, i made some custom directories in the root of the ipod
13:57:39rasherAs would $50.
13:57:46amiconnI think that it started happening with the new scheduler
13:57:47Life^and am trying to play the files using filebrowser
13:57:59rasherLife^: That's not a problem. Wmas might be the problem
13:58:04jhMikeSthat's maybe worth 15s of audio at 44100Hz
13:58:08Paul_the_NerdjhMikeS: The theory is that the disk is already spinning, so before it stops it may as well top off the buffer.
13:58:10Life^just their prescence?
13:58:20jhMikeSand 30ish at 50%
13:58:23rasherLife^: Possibly, since Rockbox might try to buffer them
13:58:32Paul_the_NerdjhMikeS: I think you're confused as to what's going on.
13:58:44rasherPaul_the_Nerd: What if you're playing wavs though
13:58:55Life^i'll remove them
13:58:56markunJdGordon: any idea why MEM is not defined everywhere?
13:59:00Paul_the_Nerdrasher: What about wavs?
13:59:04rasherI guess you're rebuffering all the time then anyway
13:59:25rasherPaul_the_Nerd: nevermind
13:59:36Paul_the_NerdThe rebuffer on spindown *should* only happen once in my mind.
13:59:49Paul_the_NerdThat would remove the possibility of infinite buffering anyway.
13:59:55jhMikeSPaul_the_Nerd: Possibly but it could keep disks spinning forever depending on the timeout
14:00:06jhMikeSor am I still confused?
14:00:14Life^wauw, removing them actually worked
14:00:18Life^i didn't think it would
14:00:22rasherIt should spind down at once after the top-off
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14:00:27JdGordonmarkun: no, unless its defined by configure?
14:00:31Paul_the_NerdThe top-off should be the last thing, yes.
14:00:40Life^thx rasher
14:00:45rasherLife^: no problem
14:00:48Paul_the_NerdIf you made the top-off always occur last, followed by the spindown, you could actually top-off at *any* percentage safely, right?
14:01:23jhMikeSPaul_the_Nerd: that's rather elegant actually
14:01:39JdGordonhmm.. yeah, looks like configure defines MEM
14:02:46jhMikeSTop off just before spindown occurs and avoid any chaotic behavior
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14:04:08JdGordonthe problem is, the topping off (i assume) must be done by the audio thread, but the callback is from the ata thread, so the callback sends the Q_AUDIO_FILL_BUFFER to the audio thread, where it is possible that the disk has already spundown
14:04:22jhMikeSPost to the audio thread and wait for it.
14:04:41JdGordonunless I add a new Q_AUDIO_FILL_BUFFER_IF_ATA_ACTIVE which checks the disk befoe calling the rebuffer?
14:04:42jhMikeSSpindown shouldn't finish while in the callback
14:05:29JdGordonfs 6289 has the patch btw
14:06:15JdGordonmaybe ill do that, more elegant than using ata_spin()
14:06:23jhMikeSThe callback should be synchronized and spindown should only occur after it returns or after all register callbacks have returned
14:06:40JdGordonit is
14:07:02JdGordonbut the callbacks are run from the ata thread, not the main thread.. which can cause problems (i tinhk)
14:07:23JdGordonI don want to add semaphores and such
14:07:50JdGordondo we have counting semaphores in the core?
14:07:55jhMikeSthen you'll have a race condition
14:07:58jhMikeSno we don't
14:09:12jhMikeSafaik there's no order in which the scheuler releases the waiters other than normal but it may have been changed if the waiters are queued or something
14:12:47JdGordonhow does this look? ata_fillbuffer_callback(void) is called when the disk is idle but still spinninng (or about to shutdown), the callback puts the rebuffer requests onto the queue but it only gets filled if the disk is still spinning
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14:13:02jhMikeSWe need something to release all waiting threads on an event. pcm_record.c for example doesn't see trouble because it's not being accessed by multiple thread for controlling recording...yet
14:13:27JdGordonwhich means, its possibly safe for archos
14:16:03jhMikeSThe spindown doesn't involve interrupts does it?
14:16:20JdGordoni dont tihnk so.. not sure...
14:16:51jhMikeSthat's important cause it could spin down after the ata_disk_is_active call if so
14:17:31JdGordonthe liklyhood of that happening is pretty slip i would think
14:18:13jhMikeSIt's a race condition. What if it spins down after that? Will it just respin and buffer normally?
14:18:53jhMikeShmmm...I guess it it'll just drop to the buffer fill as usual
14:18:55JdGordonconsidering ata_disk_is_active() would be called from a different thread, so to spin down the disk between a check and a ata access there needs to be a yield to the ata thread first, which wouldnt happen then
14:19:58jhMikeSok...sounds good to me :) So I guess it's done by the ATA thread only
14:20:11JdGordonwhat is?
14:20:19jhMikeSThe spindown?
14:20:38JdGordonyes, afaik only the ata thread can shutdown the disk
14:23:08JdGordonbtw, the 15s of aduio quoted before.. where did that come from? 25% of 32 is 8mb of ram, or 8min of a standard mp3
14:23:09jhMikeSyes, it's not a tick task or anything
14:23:45jhMikeSI came up with it from 44100Hz PCM on an x5 with 16MB.
14:24:08JdGordonah, but its the codec buffer, not the pcm one..
14:24:20jhMikeSThere's usually about 10MB for the file buffer available
14:24:37jhMikeSAt least with voice and all that
14:24:44*LinusN is amused by the logo thread in the forum
14:24:52 Nick idnar_ is now known as idnar (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
14:25:02jhMikeSLinusN: logo thread?
14:25:16Paul_the_NerdI think the rock in a box wins. ;)
14:26:28jhMikeSthat picture for the bootup logo is too Apple-y
14:26:38JdGordonLinusN: the audio rebuffernig wont happen unless MEM > 8.. sounds good?
14:27:16jhMikeSWhy would the system be unstable if you just fill once before spindown?
14:27:23*JdGordon hopes MEM actually is defined by configure.. or this code will never happen
14:27:35jhMikeSAt any memory level for that matter
14:27:57JdGordon? it wouldnt..
14:28:19JdGordonthe idea of this is to get this idle access stuff into the code, with it actually being used when it does
14:28:27LinusNJdGordon: doesn't really matter at the moment, since the low-mem targets (archos) use a different playback engine
14:28:42JdGordonifp7xxx will have the same problem tho
14:28:48JdGordonif that port comes back to life
14:29:22JdGordonso we are good to go?
14:29:39Paul_the_NerdMight there be a better way to handle buffering for flash based hardware anyway?
14:30:30JdGordonPaul_the_Nerd: ah crap, you just reminded me that the flash players call the callback as soon as they are registered.. so the audio thread could possibly buffer indefinatly
14:30:40*Paul_the_Nerd grins.
14:31:06JdGordon:( my isster is asleep and i cant get her nano to test this out on
14:32:27*jhMikeS thinks regenerative braking should be used on hard disks to recharge the battery and regain the energy from the spinning platters. But noone's made a drive that does that yet :(
14:32:43JdGordonanyone fell like testing this?
14:33:00jhMikeSI'll do it
14:33:05daurn|laptopJdGordon: just give me your sister's nano
14:33:21JdGordonjhMikeS: on a nano?
14:33:38jhMikeSoh, no. On an x5 and H120 which this will affect too
14:33:59JdGordonactually dw.. ill test it on the sim
14:35:14jhMikeSI think it's a good idea. Should reduce spinup...but what if the spinup was *for* rebuffering? no change?
14:35:14JdGordonok, ill up a new version onto fs
14:36:20JdGordonthis new version wont spinup if it was expolicitly because we thought we were still spinnig
14:38:29jhMikeShmmm...even rebuffering again wouldn't be bad unless the timeout is long compared to the time audio needs to be buffered agian
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14:38:41JdGordonto test this you will need to let it fully buffer, then skip forward a few tracks wile the disk is still spinning to get the buffer down to <75% and rebuffer
14:39:15amiconnJdGordon: Regarding your catch-disk-spinning for refill and the 25% calculation: Think about 96kHz 24bit WAV and targets with 16MB RAM
14:39:54JdGordonumm... i dont know how to do the maths on that properly...
14:40:04JdGordonand how often do people use WAV?
14:40:06*amiconn thinks we can make 96kHz WAV work on archos recorders
14:40:14amiconnNot on Ondios though
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14:40:43amiconn16bit, that is
14:40:46JdGordonbtw, midkay thought about adding options in so the user can pick the rebuffer level depending on his usage
14:41:06JdGordonapparently rebuffering would be bad for people who skip backwards
14:41:09jhMikeSfunny how more and more can be squeezed from the archos
14:41:24JdGordonthe damn things just wont die!
14:41:42*jhMikeS always gets funny looks skipping around backward
14:43:05*Paul_the_Nerd 's entire standard usage pattern involves pressing the power button and letting auto-resume handle everything.
14:43:27 Quit Sinbios ("If the definition of a klutz is someone who doesn't have eyes on their ass, then yes, I suppose I am a klutz.")
14:43:49*JdGordon the same
14:44:19jhMikeSI'm always just browsing for what I want myself...usually some song that's been in my head all day and I have to listen to so it will go away :P
14:44:41amiconnThe MAS PCM codec officially supports only 8,11,12,16,22,24,32,44 and 48kHz
14:44:52Paul_the_NerdSo how would 96 work?
14:45:03amiconnBut the MAS can easily be overclocked to 200% (we do this when pitching up for mp3 as well)
14:45:28amiconnAnd pitching to 200% then produces 64,88 and 96kHz
14:45:48jhMikeSThen you can't pitch up 96 from the pitch screen any more
14:46:29amiconnBut I know it works, I used this when testing the s/pdif frequency measurement on the H140
14:46:42JdGordonhmm.. watching the aduio thread debug, it sounds/looks like the hdd turns off as soon as the rebuffering finishes (this is without the callback)
14:47:07amiconn96kHz PCM will cause the archos to rebuffer every 5 seconds though
14:47:22jhMikeSheh...keep 'er plugged in
14:47:45JdGordonif (playing)
14:47:45JdGordon ata_sleep();
14:47:48JdGordon! thats bad
14:48:15JdGordonim revoing that cal at the end of audio_fill_file_buffer()
14:48:45jhMikeS!! oy
14:49:00JdGordonconvince me to keep it :D
14:49:18JdGordonthe kills any benefit thiis idel stuffs would have
14:49:21jhMikeSsuppose I understand the intent was to stop the disk if only started for rebuffer
14:50:53JdGordonthe plan is to use the idle callbacks to save playlist position, settings, etc.. and the most common way to get the disk spinning is by a audio rebuffering.. but the ata_sleep() bypasses the callbacks
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14:53:06JdGordonhmmm... is 97% codec stack usage a bit high?
14:53:29jhMikeSNo, >100% is a bit high :)
14:53:31JdGordonor is that coz im being an idiot with the excessive track sckipping to test rebuffering?
14:53:44JdGordon97% doesnt leave much room
14:54:01linuxstb97% means it's been judged perfectly...
14:54:46JdGordonok, well if its not going to grow anymore, then yes
14:54:59linuxstbBut yes, it does look risky.
14:55:17linuxstbIs the % in the debug screen the current usage, or the maximum usage?
14:55:18JdGordonand usb is down at 10%..
14:55:18jhMikeSThe pcm record stack needs adjusting. It overflowed a little the first time I tested changes. I guess it should be calced from the max but that one's simple.
14:55:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:56:50*linuxstb checks the source and decides it's maximum usage.
14:57:59jhMikeSIt's only using about 70% or something but it's about 50% bigger now than in CVS. A little excessive.
14:58:35jhMikeSvoice gets 96% btw
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14:59:27JdGordoncan someone with the nano please test my patch to see if buffering happens constanlty?
15:00:30jhMikeSdoesn't happen at all here since I don't have one :)
15:01:17JdGordonpretty please? 1am here and id like to commit this before going to bed unless there are objections :p
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15:04:14JdGordonmeany... the lot of you!
15:04:28jhMikeShey I don't have one!
15:04:53JdGordonmeany... the lot of you! ( jhMikeS and others' without a nano excepted)
15:05:01linuxstbIf you port Rockbox to a 2nd gen Nano, I'll test...
15:05:48Soapwhich brings up a question.
15:05:56JdGordonand dinner :p
15:06:05SoapIs there a dev who is interested in working on a port to the 2nd gen Nano who would like one?
15:06:32 Quit Nibbier (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
15:07:01*JdGordon does the usual, yes, but lacks the know-how
15:07:04jhMikeSwow, to get a free nano all I have to do is port rockbox to it? such a deal!
15:07:15linuxstbThe port needs either encryption hackers or low-level hardware hackers in order to make any progress. Far beyond my skills.
15:08:07*daurn|laptop wishes he knew how to decrypt stuff
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15:08:33jhMikeSMan, there's so much I want to do and porting something would be good learnin'
15:08:47SoapThe reason I ask is I am getting one free in a week or two from the Key Bank offer, I have no use for it, and would be willing to donate it IF there was someone serious about its port who needed one. Otherwise I might as well sell it and donate cash.
15:09:34SoapI know donations sometimes get spent getting hardware in the hands of developers, and I thought I might as well cut out the middle man.
15:09:59JdGordonhmm... just trying in the sim... it looks like the nano will buffer at 75% full every time.. is that bad enough to not commit this?
15:10:26markunSoap: you can also ask the ipodlinux guys if they have use for it.
15:10:29linuxstbdavidc (I think) in the IPL project was going to rip one apart, so maybe he could use some spares...
15:11:32jhMikeSIs that the one with "unmarked" chips and such as well?
15:11:35linuxstbEveryone here seems to be going after the Sansa as the next major Rockbox target.
15:11:56SoapNot a bad idea, if you all would vouch for the integrity of the person I consider gifting it to.
15:12:30SoapThe think about Rockbox is I feel I know most people's abilities well enough and intentions...
15:12:31linuxstbSoap: If you wanted, you could contact leachbj - the original IPL hacker and founder of the project.
15:12:37jhMikeSI wonder if Apples fires employees caught using rockbox on their iPods.
15:12:57linuxstbHis email address is all over the Rockbox source in the IPL-derived files.
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15:14:26JdGordonok, better idea... im disabling the buffering for the nano and commiting... unless someone objects
15:15:07linuxstbJdGordon: I haven't looked at your patch, but I've found it's never a good idea to commit just before going to bed...
15:15:23JdGordonwaiting for the build to fiish of course...
15:16:18JdGordonfor some reason i feel its safer to commit when everyone else is awake...
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15:17:56jhMikeSJdGordon: can I object later?
15:18:20JdGordonah, but then its too late.... then its a must fix instead of stop the commit...
15:18:42jhMikeSexactly :P It's a great motivator.
15:19:40JdGordon1 thing I should double check... adding a new Q_AUDIO_blaa in the middle of the enum shouldnt have any funny side effects... will it?
15:20:12JdGordonthought so
15:20:14jhMikeSI did it and it's fine
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15:25:01 Part LinusN
15:25:05jhMikeSwhy do we need a whole range of batteries on the x5? Aren't there only two?
15:25:35jhMikeSthe mAh setting that is
15:27:17JdGordonI cant belive im going into uni to study all day on a public holiday :'(
15:27:29JdGordondaurn|laptop: got a bet on the horses?
15:29:04jhMikeSwhat holiday?
15:29:46 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
15:29:50JdGordonmelbourne cup, we aussies will take any excuse for a holiday, the whole state takes the day off, and the country stops for the 15min race
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15:31:56jhMikeSWe Americans don't take Holidays for much of anything except government employees of course who seem to never want to work
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15:33:26JdGordonwoot green build table.. gnite all
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15:33:37pondlifeHit + run!
15:34:50jhMikeSHit + run as in the Reason Online blog? :P
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15:44:20lowlightpondlife: How goes the queue flooding?
15:44:36lowlightI had an idea...maybe queue_post should pass an bool to indicate if multiple id's are allowed in the queue.
15:45:32lowlightat least for the audio queue it would prevent unnecessary fill buffer requests, since only one should be needed.
15:45:45pondlifelowlight: It was the backlight queue that was overflowing. Now fixed.
15:46:04pondlifeI've been running with the panic-on-overflow patch for 4 days with no problems now.
15:47:34lowlightare there any problems with the audio queue if some other audio request is done while buffering.
15:47:53pondlifeNot that I know of. There shouldn't be.
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15:48:32lowlightI still see lots of unnecessary fill buffer requests for just a normal buffer fill
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15:50:35pondlifeIf you look at my mod to backlight.c you could do a similar thing when queuing a fill request - remove any existing ones from the queue head first... but it's probably not necessary
15:54:09amiconnpondlife: That's fixing the symptom instead of the root cause...
15:56:03 Quit muesliii (".")
16:00:34pondlifeThe whole point of having a queue is that this shouldn't be a problem. Of course that assumes the queue won't overflow...
16:01:49pondlifeThe problem is that one thread decides that filling is required and sends a message multiple times before the first one is acted upon... I don't know if a post-side flag (to suppress multiple postings) would be safe though.
16:02:07pondlifeAnyway, work calls....
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16:05:50jhMikeSdoh...just extracted an x5 build to the H120 :P
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16:30:17jhMikeSWas the white noise stuff ever definitively fixed (happened on codec change from WAV->MP3)? I don't see how I could have caused it again if so. BTW: I had an encoder failure with short files but it seems to recover now and continue normally.
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16:34:37*amiconn experienced white noise on archos recorder today
16:34:49amiconnNot a rockbox or hardware fault though, but user fault
16:35:11amiconnI plugged the aux connector of my car stereo into the s/pdif socket
16:35:18jhMikeShmmm...funny thing is now it recovered from all that stuff and kept right on going
16:35:45jhMikeSI don't think those are compatible :D
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16:36:18amiconnNot really, no, but the recorder has the s/pdif socket at the same place where the player has its separate line out
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16:36:47jhMikeSwell, on H120 they're the same socket...but you knew that
16:37:34amiconnYes, as s/pdif is optical there
16:37:46jhMikeSwhy would it have any input at all just cause the wrong jack is there?
16:38:03jhMikeSplug, whatchamacallit
16:38:07amiconnOutput, not input...
16:38:35amiconnAnd the archos recorder has _electrical_ s/pdif
16:39:04jhMikeSugh, that would be a wakeup
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16:43:40jhMikeSwierd, first time I've seen real recovery of any sort from codec failure but then again it's the first time buffers have reinitialized after being trashed
16:45:14tim66anyone know if I could use the h140's remote data line for output, or is it wired for input only?
16:45:38tim66though, what I meant was the opposite, can I use it for serail input !
16:46:36tim66i know the remote is wired for input only, but can the iriver do bi-directional comms on this pin?
16:48:22n1stim66 how can it be input only and still manage to write to the remote lcd?
16:53:45amiconntim66: You could use the lcd data lines for bidirectional communication if your remote replacement doesn't have an lcd
16:54:09amiconnOf course that'd mean writing your own driver and disabling the remote lcd driver in your custom build
16:54:50tim66certainly would, I have a GNUnilink adaptor on my sony car radio. I am hoping to get track details from the iriver and return commands back too
16:55:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:55:28tim66just wondering how I will be able to send serial data to the iriver
16:56:36tim66amiconn: do you know, has anyone tried anything like this before on a h1x0 or h3x0?
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16:56:53jhMikeScould hook the DAP up to a robot body...
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16:59:50lowlighthmmm...serial ir remote
17:00:18*jhMikeS is getting last minute jitters about the BRP. :O
17:01:49amiconntim66: As long as 4 signal lines are enough, you can do almost anything
17:02:07amiconnThe lcd data lines are just gpio ports which can be programmed for input or output
17:02:17amiconnSo you just need a bit-banging driver
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17:03:33jhMikeShow much detail need I include on something like that in the message? Is basic overview enough without being too specific and having a 100 line writeup? You can just look at the diffs if you need extreme detail.
17:03:57tim66amiconn: excellent. just need to find a cable, and then work out how to run two bit-banging ports on the PIC and still meet the Unilink specs...
17:04:49tim66much of which has already been done for the archos interface
17:06:00tim66don't suppose anyone has a broken iriver remote going spare, with the plug and cable intact??
17:06:59*amiconn doesn't know the unilink specs
17:07:39amiconnErm, what are you trying to do? You mentioned archos?
17:08:04tim66this: but for the iriver
17:09:09markunjhMikeS: will it be one big commit?
17:09:58jhMikeSmarkun: yes, no choice on that. all changes are relevant to the basic functionality
17:11:03jhMikeSdon't think it will be too much worse than the previous BRP though
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17:11:31SlasherijhMikeS: you are going to commit the recording patch? that sounds great
17:12:24jhMikeSup it goes once I confirm compile on all the relevant variations
17:19:27amiconntim66: How about keeping the same pic design as for archos, and only adapting the rockbox side?
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17:19:57amiconnIiuc you need one pin that is driven bidirectionally by rockbox
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17:21:36tim66amiconn: sounds like a good plan, should be able to add the extra connection to my existing GNUnilink dongle too
17:22:13jhMikeSI'd really like a more HAL approach to the S/PDIF code. Still have some direct register setting left in pcm_record.c
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17:23:56DeefI checked WMP, Winamp, iTunes and iriver. These systems all reshuffle a repeating playlist each time it is played through.
17:24:24DeefRockbox doesn't reshuffle unless repeat shuffle is also on
17:24:36amiconnThat's what repeat shuffle is for
17:24:54DeefJust wondering what the value of non-reshuffling is
17:25:13DeefRockbox is the only system I know that does that
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17:26:30webguest28hi... is this the dev channel?
17:26:42n1samong other things ;-)
17:27:10n1sbut mostly it is the "ask quetions about ipods answered in the faq"
17:27:11DeefNon-reshuffling seems a very barely useful feature to include two extra play modes for
17:27:28jhMikeScan patch ignore whitespace changes when applying a patch or do they need to be ignored when creating it?
17:27:36webguest28is there a faq or page to beginning plugin development?
17:27:50webguest28I have an idea for one but don't know where to begin
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17:28:35amiconntim66: unilink is a serial protocol? Maybe you can get away with a pure software implementation of the protocol on H1x0. Then you'd only need level converters for hookup
17:29:03*jhMikeS needs a little quiet on the commit front for about 30min...pretty please :)
17:33:59PaulPositionOk, so I'm technically challenged, but are the portalplayer-based rockboxed units running overclocked to compensate for the lack of (current) support of the second core..? Wouldn't it be bad for the unit?
17:34:53webguest28Thanks a ton! Couldn't find that
17:35:09webguest28another thing: Is there any progress being made on video w/audio?
17:35:58amiconnPaulPosition: No they don't run overclocked. Even running them at the specified limit causes instability (according to the ipl people), so they're running a bit below maximum spec
17:36:15amiconn75MHz instead of the specced 80
17:36:37amiconnAnd if rockbox doesn't need full power, it switches to a lower clock
17:37:19markunDoes anyone in here know anything about the Onkyo RI (Remote Interactive) protocol?
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17:40:05PaulPositionThanks, amiconn.. That's reassuring. :)
17:41:50jhMikeSI guess cvs diff -w does the trick
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17:50:26*linuxstb__ wonders if he could port Rockbox port to a photo frame...
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17:53:28markunlinuxstb__: they also could have called it a PMP
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18:10:55markunBagder: can you install the Table Plugin for twiki?
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18:11:46jhMikeSman cvs diff -w messed up some indentation :(
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18:14:19GnelikHi all!
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18:19:10tim66amiconn: any idea what bps the LCD serial currently runs at?
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18:26:10amiconntim66: No fixed bps. It works like SPI and is bit-banged. At maximum cpu clock, we get >2mbit/s
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18:31:21hcsI have a plugin that I would like to be more cooperative (i.e. not kill playback when scrolling), would a sprinkling of yield() in cpu intensive regions help?
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18:32:41lostlogichcs: probably
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18:34:26hcsdoesn't seem to help much, I think the slow lcd updating on ipods may be the main issue
18:34:58hcsmaybe I'll put a limit on updates/second
18:35:00lostlogicupdate the LCD less often?
18:35:16hcsha, beat you by 2 seconds
18:37:35hcswhat are the units of sleep()?
18:37:42lostlogicticks, IIRC
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18:37:55hcsyeah, I saw that, but what're ticks in this context?
18:38:21lostlogic100 I think
18:38:25lostlogicer 1/100
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18:38:32hcsah, ok
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18:40:53hcs5 ticks seems to be good enough
18:42:31lostlogicfrequency of lcd updates?
18:42:57hcswhich is fine for scrolling text
18:43:40hcsI'm working on the mediawiki viewer, by the way
18:43:59n1sas in wikipedia?
18:44:10n1snice :-)
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18:44:32hcsfreqmod's database is nice, but his viewer doesn't work...
18:44:36godzirraSoooo... any progress on the gigabeat?
18:44:42markungodzirra: yes, some
18:44:52godzirrahow's it going?
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18:45:10markunfigured out all the pins of the dock connector and vadim's had some progress with interrupts
18:45:19godzirraSo it still boots up, but no playback?
18:45:28markunno playback
18:46:48godzirraI'm selling my ihp-120 to get a new mp3 player.
18:46:51godzirrastill debating.
18:46:58godzirraspeaking of, anyone want to buy an ihp-120? :)
18:47:01jhMikeSok...*deep breath*...
18:47:11lostlogicjhMikeS: committing BRP?
18:47:15*n1s takes cover
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18:47:33markunjhMikeS: good luck!
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18:51:58jhMikeShave to remember stuff from months ago for the message :P
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18:55:15linuxstb_hcs: Am I right in thinking someone has written a mediawiki viewer for Rockbox, but hasn't released his source?
18:55:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:07:21jhMikeSon it's way up...
19:07:38*n1s is still under cover ;-P
19:08:20hcslinuxstb: I don't know, there was some mention of that, I've just made a very basic viewer to replace freqmod's unusable one
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19:10:23jhMikeSoh boy I've never seen a commit take so long to finish
19:10:42jhMikeScrap I think I forgot to add new file in hrrr
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19:11:41godzirraOk.. odd problems.
19:11:57godzirramy ihp-120 when it gets to the end of the song, sounds a split second of "static" for lack of a better term
19:12:03godzirraand then goes to teh beginning of the song.
19:12:05godzirraits weird.
19:12:12lowlightInteresting PortalPlayer news:
19:12:23jhMikeSok, that's not gonna build...gotta add the new files the the fresh CVS I used
19:12:27godzirraand when I choose a song, sometimes it starts playing the wrong song.
19:12:33godzirraif I select it again it plays the right song.
19:13:09lowlighttoo bad nvidia isn't anymore open source friendly than pp
19:14:19godzirraanyone have any ideas?
19:14:26godzirraI ran a scandisk and it went through fine.
19:15:32lowlightgodzirra: you have the latest build? sounds like some problems that were recently fixed.
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19:16:37godzirraNope, i'll upgrade now and see if it fixes it.
19:16:46godzirramy build is maybe.. .hmm.. 2 weeks old?
19:16:47godzirraor so?
19:17:03Ana|Hi there. Just spend an hour trying to work out why Rockbox doesn't work on my 5G... 30 Gig Video purchased two weeks ago. It's a 5.5G and not supported as of now, hu?
19:18:03lowlightgodzirra: try today's daily or cvs build.
19:18:08godzirrathey're workign on it, but not really supported yet, no.
19:18:11godzirralowlight: just grabbed it.
19:18:25lex_Ana|: on my 5.5G it works great
19:18:34lex_with the experimental build
19:18:42Ana|ah, that's what I wanted to hear ^^
19:18:46*jhMikeS doesn't even wanna see that last build with the missing files :P
19:18:50Ana|The bootloader?
19:19:50jhMikeSooh that hurts
19:20:04n1salmost 10k congrats
19:20:08jhMikeSdo I have a record for the highest build score?
19:20:16godzirrawe'll see if that fixes it.
19:20:27jhMikeSshould be better next round
19:20:30godzirralex_: works great with the experimental build, without having to use mtools?
19:20:42n1sbetter as in higher score? ;-P
19:20:43lex_godzirra: what's mtools? :p
19:20:53Ana|Mhh... Just in case: I should always be able to raw-write the original bootloader i backed up with dd so I can get the functions back, shouldn't I?
19:20:54jhMikeSit would have to...I forgot to cvs add 10 files
19:22:29godzirraYou sh3~ould be able to Ana| , yes.
19:23:49Ana|Anyone using amarok with Rockbox?
19:23:53 Quit Deef ()
19:24:06godzirrawhats amarok?
19:24:12Ana|Does the Coverart import work? It doesn't with the original firmware.
19:24:20n1skde music player
19:24:23Ana|a great softwareplayer
19:24:26lex_amarok <3
19:24:32lex_really great
19:24:34lex_the best
19:24:52jhMikeSoh I wish it would finish already...hope it didn't hang
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19:25:06n1sAna|: what coverart? rockbox doesn't support coverart
19:26:02lex_yes it does with patches
19:26:48Ana|Here it says otherwise ^^
19:28:33jhMikeSahh...not bad only 150 this time
19:28:47jhMikeSthe sims hate me as usual
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19:30:55Ana|ok, installing the 5.5 loader
19:31:08Ana|damn, this just has to work
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19:31:27Ana|Is flac supported right away or do I need patches?
19:31:43 Join dpro [0] (
19:31:53Ana|ah, i need to stfu
19:31:58Ana|google is mighty
19:32:13amiconnjhMikeS: Still red builds...
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19:35:26jhMikeSalready fixing em
19:36:26jhMikeSthat should do it I hope
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19:37:41amiconnI guess that for the hwcodec sims for recording capable targets, it was just a stub function that wasn't updated
19:37:55amiconnHowever, I wonder what happened to lcd-charcell.c
19:39:12amiconnHmm, think I understand...
19:40:04*amiconn wonders whether a current hwcodec build will actually work
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19:41:13jhMikeSshouldn't have touched anything there realy
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19:41:50jhMikeScreate_number_filename takes a number in some platforms so the disk doesn't have to be hit to create the next one
19:42:21Ana|It's working =D
19:42:34Ana|thanks a lot, lex_ :)
19:43:04amiconnjhMikeS: How does it know the last used number then?
19:43:21jhMikeSThe first call already gives you the file with the highest number
19:43:23lex_Ana|: :)
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19:43:43lex_Ana|: but i can't boot into apple os anymore :(
19:43:51lex_so i can't watch videos
19:43:54jhMikeSfrom then on it just increments it. pass -1 for the first call then the returned number on subsequent ones
19:44:15amiconnWhy only on some platforms?
19:44:36jhMikeSTo not have the extra code when it's not needed
19:45:22jhMikeSThe ones with real time clock have an option to wait until the time read actually changes too.
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19:46:51jhMikeSahhh...back to green...
19:47:31amiconnjhMikeS: In id3.c AIFF should also be swcodec only (for now)
19:47:59amiconnBut the placement is good, as it's placed directly after the mpeg audio formats (and wav comes next)
19:48:10jhMikeSWhy was id3.c using it on HWCODEC then?
19:49:21amiconnIt wasn't
19:49:24jhMikeSThe entire enum was defined for all before even if not used in the array
19:49:40jhMikeSI didn't change that.
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19:49:48Ana|lex_: the only concern is the battery life... I didn'tplan on watching videos, anyways
19:50:00amiconnI am not talking about the enum, but about the array
19:50:02jhMikeSWhen I put AFMT_AIFF inside the SWCODEC block it gave errors
19:50:12lex_Ana|: that's the biggest reason why i bought it :p
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19:50:30amiconnIt was in the SWCODEC block before...
19:51:29jhMikeSBut the enum value wasn't...will it hurt it in any way to do that?
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19:51:58Ana|mhh... I don't know, the screen is ok to watch videos, but I prefer flac support
19:52:37amiconnIt takes up a little extra code space on hwcodec...
19:52:49n1sjhMikeS: I hope you update the manual with relevant changes. ;-)
19:53:03*preglow does the sizable commit dance
19:53:16amiconn...and depending on the implementation in tree.c, it could make hwcodec recognise aiff as an audio format... which is wrong
19:53:26amiconnNeed to test that
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19:53:45jhMikeSok...I'm concerned about AUDIO_NUM_FORMATS being a correct value
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19:54:15n1sDavide-NYC: did you see my reply to your forum post
19:54:20Davide-NYCI just did
19:54:24jhMikeSDavide-NYC: hello
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19:54:40Davide-NYChey jhMikeS I saw your bold commit!
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19:55:10*amiconn gets cvs update conflicts
19:55:12jhMikeSamiconn: messed up?
19:55:23 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
19:55:29n1sDavide-NYC: still wanna do the trade? (and I'm curious why you want a non-lcd remote anyway)
19:55:30jhMikeSsorry...happened to me alot
19:55:52Rob2222Hello. Does anybody know, how to bring "SVN commit comments" direct into the related source file as comment? So that there is a version history in the sourcefile itself?
19:55:59Davide-NYCn1s: just for testing across all remotes and both H series irivers in RB
19:57:15jhMikeScan't even fit that commit on my screen
19:57:22 Quit dpro (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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19:58:58*amiconn *hates* version history in the source files
19:59:30jhMikeS1280x1024 maximized and it doesn't fit :P Maybe it's obvious why I didn't want to keep adding more...:)
20:00:01 Quit Gena (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
20:00:19jhMikeSamiconn: you mean in the header part in the $Id part?
20:00:24 Quit dpro (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:00:28amiconnjhMikeS: Hehe, with fullscreen view in firefox it does fit here :P
20:00:29 Join voyeur [0] (i=58a10615@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
20:00:47amiconnjhMikeS: No, the $Id$ is fine, it's just a single line
20:00:55 Join dpro [0] (
20:01:23 Join Gnelik [0] (n=Miranda@
20:01:27jhMikeSDavide-NYC: PCM Wave is the default format BTW ;)
20:01:31Davide-NYCn1s: are getting my direct chats?
20:01:41Davide-NYCjhMikeS: appreciated
20:02:07 Join barrywardell [0] (i=892b7a6e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
20:02:24*jhMikeS is gonna run away when he sees JdGordon...
20:02:35 Quit barrywardell (Client Quit)
20:02:39voyeuri have just seen that partial support for sansa is nearly ready ?
20:03:01[g2]voyeur know anything about JTAG for the sansa ?
20:03:02voyeurmmm, cant wait to play Nemesis on my sansa !
20:03:03Davide-NYCjhMikeS: I suggest you put a post in the forums asking people to test
20:03:10jhMikeSWill do
20:03:21jhMikeSA new message?
20:03:21 Quit dpro (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:03:23jhMikeSOr thread rather?
20:03:34n1sDavide-NYC: yeah I get them, don't you
20:03:36voyeur[g2]>sorry not at all :\
20:03:37Davide-NYCYes. TESTING NEEDED or something similarly obnoxious
20:03:47*[g2] took his e260 apart and is already to solder up the connection, but Daniel said there wasn't a BSDL file
20:03:53jhMikeSlol ok...
20:04:00Davide-NYCI mena right now on IRC
20:04:22jhMikeSforums or IRC?
20:04:31Davide-NYCif you put it in the recording section you'll get fewer but more dedicated viewer/tester.
20:04:40scorcheoooo...nice score jhMikeS!
20:04:46Davide-NYCsorry, previous message was for n1s
20:04:56jhMikeSscorche: It about like my golf score
20:05:05Davide-NYCn1s: are you getting my IRC direct chats right this second?
20:05:26voyeurThe sansa simulator is very "stimulating" (lol)
20:05:30scorchejhMikeS: it is still pretty good ;)
20:05:33n1syes, but I'm not registered on freenode so can't send back
20:05:58Davide-NYCwell then spill your details all over this pristine palace.
20:06:16Davide-NYChere's me:
20:06:33amiconnDavide-NYC: You can set an option via nickserv to allow unregistered users to send messages
20:06:43 Join psiborg [0] (
20:06:51 Quit Gnelik ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
20:07:09jhMikeSDavide-NYC: How am I gonna put a message on IRC that sticks? It's just gonna be gone.
20:07:24jhMikeSIn the logs of history that is
20:07:41Davide-NYCjhMikeS: I was confusing and conflating two separate conversations.
20:07:44jhMikeSscorche: what's the record?
20:07:49Davide-NYCI apologise. I was suggesting the forums
20:08:01Davide-NYCin recording you'll get more serious readers
20:08:09Davide-NYCbut it really belongs in annoucements.
20:08:14Davide-NYC(i think)
20:08:57scorcheDavide-NYC: why not v-drums?
20:09:08*scorche is being invasive and looking at the last things bought
20:09:09*amiconn needs to check the SCF5250 datasheet to fix one of the conflicts :/
20:09:25Davide-NYCbecause they cost a fortune
20:09:32scorchebut they are oh so nice
20:09:35Davide-NYCI sold that.
20:09:58Ana|hu... While applying themes in Linux, I am prevented to write to .rockbox/themes even as root and there's a great amount of >3Gb files in this folder. Uh?
20:10:05jhMikeSamiconn: something in the set_cpu_frequency part?
20:10:08scorchethe drummer fro imperative reaction who was on the tour with covenant and rotersand had some v-drums...they were great
20:10:23amiconnjhMikeS: Yes. I am running slightly different pll settings
20:10:33amiconnOn X5 that is
20:10:38[g2]anybody see the news that Nvidia bought PortalPlayer today ?
20:11:15voyeurdid som1 managed to use simulators with Wine (win binaries emulator for linux) ?
20:11:25Davide-NYCI prefer real drums when possible
20:11:30Davide-NYCI gotta go
20:11:45Davide-NYCjhMikeS: anything you want me to do specifically?
20:11:52Davide-NYCh1x0 and h3x0
20:11:57Learvoyeur: Why bother? Just build it for Linux...
20:12:40voyeur[g2]>Nvidia bought PortalPlayer ??? source ?
20:12:56lowlight[g2]: yeah, about an hour ago :)
20:13:06voyeurwow !
20:13:32jhMikeSDavide-NYC: Anything you think someone that does a lot of recording would do really and see if anything turns up
20:13:54Davide-NYCthis will take at least 48 hours given my schedule
20:13:58Davide-NYCwill report back
20:14:06jhMikeSthat's ok, I don't really expect major problems
20:14:11Davide-NYCthank you very very sincerely for all of your contribution to coldfire recording
20:14:17jhMikeSyou're welcome
20:14:24Davide-NYCover an out
20:14:28 Quit Davide-NYC ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox]")
20:14:29voyeurLear> true, i only did it before sansa dev existed
20:14:43lowlight[g2]: i doubt it will help in getting pp datasheets though
20:15:02voyeuri have to update via cvs ?how to do in one line ?
20:15:10[g2]lowlight IMHO you miss the whole point of the purchase
20:15:49SoulDeaDis it possible to run rockbox in an emulated environment?
20:15:50[g2]lowlight and actually probably quite the contrary
20:17:13SoulDeaDi no not need to simulate the ui
20:17:40[g2]lowlight do you follow nvidia or portalplayer much ?
20:17:50lowlight[g2]: you're right...I don't see the point of nvidia buying pp.
20:18:19*[g2] spills in the rockbox channel
20:18:30voyeurSoulDeaD> sry not uderstood. Maybe with qemu ?
20:18:37[g2]lowlight you are aware of the AMD/ATI purchase right ?
20:18:38SoulDeaDiīd like to run the kernel of rockbox and maybe optimize it
20:18:48Ana|Anyone here using Linux & Rockbox? Why is it telling me that .rockbox is read only even as root and why is themes filled with a lot of .. uh... crap? (big files)
20:18:56SoulDeaDok, iīll try it
20:19:10Ana|It actually tells me .rockbox is 70 gigabytes in size
20:19:10jhMikeSBetter double check if I left anything in that shouldn't be there
20:19:24amiconnAna|: Sounds like a messed up file system
20:19:58jhMikeSoops, left a reference to a testing plugin :P
20:20:21*amiconn is building for archos recorder now
20:20:24Ana|amiconn: Yup... However rockbox works. After mounting, writing to the root level is possible.
20:20:37lowlight[g2]: of least that one makes sense.
20:20:48Ana|but writing to .rockbox is rendered impossible after browsing the folders
20:20:49jhMikeSHow's that not getting an error?
20:20:52 Join dpro [0] (
20:20:56amiconnAna|: Access works as long as the fs driver doesn't trip over the messed up area
20:21:17amiconnI would recommend a file system check before writing anything to that disk
20:21:27[g2]lowlight for $165M net (pennies for NV) they get dual core high volume (10M units) proven ARM cores
20:21:29jhMikeSnever mind, I'm exhausted, wrong SOURCES file
20:22:22amiconnjhMikeS: I'll try removing aiff for hwcodec. Wonder what's going on there...
20:22:48Ana|Mhhh... I have installed the bootloader for Rockbox and such... So I should generally be able to just format the iPod via mkfs.vfat, or am I wrong?
20:22:53amiconnDo you remember the error message it caused?
20:23:05[g2]lowlight NV is now fully vertically integrated in the PDA/Cellphone market and can probably spin PC based on ARM core by Q1 or Q2 '07
20:23:06jhMikeSIt's in the switch statement in metadata.c
20:23:19Ana|It actually only contains the regular Apple OS database, so Rockbox won't read it anyways
20:23:29jhMikeSIf it's not declared it's an error
20:23:29amiconnmetadata.c? That shouldn't be compiled for hwcodec afaik...
20:24:01jhMikeSThat's where it reads the table or was it id3.c...wait a minute
20:24:25jhMikeSyeah, metadata.c
20:24:51jhMikeSIt had it's own table but now there is only the one
20:25:32Ana|amiconn: If I'd just create /dev/sda2 as a new filesystem, that should work, don't it?
20:25:57Learamiconn: maybe metadata.c is used by the tagcache?
20:25:59Ana|Does rockbox expect the partition to have any standard name?
20:26:00amiconnDunno, never tried that
20:26:19jhMikeSAFMT_NUM_CODECS must be the correct value
20:26:22amiconnThe name is irrelevant for rockbox, even the partition type is
20:26:39Ana|mhh... How do I go on repairing the filesystem else?
20:27:03amiconn(on windows)
20:27:32amiconnOr some fs check on linux... don't remeber how it's called
20:27:54amiconnFor fat?
20:28:58LearSomething with fsck in it, yes...
20:29:02Ana|fsck.vfat, should do it
20:29:17Slasheriyep, metadata.c is used for tagcache. It's just necessary to interface with the id3 tag functions
20:29:28Slasherionly id3 parsing is compiled in for hwcodec
20:29:48scorcheactually, isnt it dosfsck or something like that?
20:30:07scorcheit is
20:30:07LearBut if only used for id3, it shouldn't be hard to skip that... But maybe you want it future-proofed for wav support. :)
20:30:07Slasheriscorche: that is the same program
20:30:16voyeurburp. cvs command didnt work [pserver aborted]: /cvsroot/rockbox-all: no such repository
20:30:19lowlight[g2]: why would i want an arm cpu in my pc? you remember transmeta?
20:30:22voyeurdid i mistaked ?
20:30:43amiconnLear: That's why I said it's good placement to put aiff (and wav) right after mp1/mp2/mp3
20:30:49jhMikeSSuppose you could put the AFMT_AIFF _after_ the definition of AFMT_NUM_CODECS for HWCODEC
20:30:49SlasheriLear: yes, sure :) tagcache engine shouldn't need to the file type
20:30:54amiconnBut it can be moved into the ifdef for now
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20:31:25[g2]lowlight I remember the 8085, I've been in the industry for nearly 30 years
20:31:35voyeursalut greyfoux
20:32:25Learlinuxstb: stsz is annoying. It can get large... :/
20:32:36jhMikeSamiconn: just move it into the #ifdef and #ifdef out the AIFF case for HWCODEC is what you're suggesting?
20:32:53amiconnYes, both in id3.h and id3.c of course
20:33:03amiconnThat's what I am currently building...
20:33:10jhMikeSwhat about the switch case in metadata.c
20:33:49voyeursnif [pserver aborted]: /cvsroot/rockbox-devel: no such repository
20:34:19voyeurwhy cant i use the cvs ?
20:34:19 Quit dpro (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:34:43amiconnjhMikeS: AFMT_AIFF _is_ within the #ifdef there...
20:34:46scorcherockbox...not rockbox-devel
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20:35:11jhMikeSwhat? then how'd I get the error that made me do it in the first place? maybe it was updated at some point?
20:35:25amiconnAnd, there is a bug in metadata.c for HWCODEC (unrelated to the commit iirc)
20:35:26voyeureven if i want the simulator ?
20:35:40amiconnjhMikeS: Building fin ehere...
20:35:50jhMikeSI wouldn't have made that change for just the heck of it
20:36:03amiconnAFMT_MPA_L1 is not a supported format on HWCODEC
20:36:05scorchevoyeur: /cvsroot/rockbox co rockbox-devel
20:36:16jhMikeSThat's was always outside the #ifdef
20:36:22voyeurscorche> THANKS :)
20:36:25amiconn[20:35:27] <amiconn> And, there is a bug in metadata.c for HWCODEC (unrelated to the commit iirc)
20:36:45amiconnThe MAS can only decode layer 2 and layer 3
20:37:24 Quit dpro (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:37:42Ana|amiconn: some runs of fsck resolved the problesm ;)
20:38:24*jhMikeS tried to stay clear of HWCODEC as much as possible and wouldn't put extra formats in for the heck of it
20:38:38amiconnjhMikeS: I don't know what you did... but it builds just fine with AIFF moved into the ifdef
20:39:38jhMikeSIt didn't when I first redid the table...I swear
20:40:00[g2]jhMikeS which processor is on the A5 ?
20:40:28jhMikeS[g2]: Don't really know
20:40:33jhMikeSyou mean x5?
20:40:42jhMikeSThat MCF5250
20:40:45[g2]jhMikeS yeah x5
20:41:20[g2]jhMikeS Ok so you did the fb tweaking for a ColdFire core
20:41:20jhMikeSamiconn: I think that was changed along the way somewhere cause it's not in my changes
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20:42:57amiconncase AFMT_AIFF: has been in the ifdef for months
20:43:10amiconn(in metadata.c)
20:43:19jhMikeSBut it's been months since I did it
20:43:32amiconn9 months to be exact
20:43:47amiconn...when aiff support was added
20:44:32jhMikeSyou really think I'm insane don't you :D...
20:45:42jhMikeSI really really really wouldn't have done that if I never got errors somewhere about it
20:46:13amiconnPerhaps you changed one but not the other?
20:46:28preglowjhMikeS: lookin' good
20:46:32preglowthink i'll try this stuff out
20:46:34jhMikeSpreglow: thanks
20:46:37amiconnDunno, but I can imagine such things happening considering the number of changed files
20:46:51jhMikeSIt been a couple of months since I worked on that
20:47:23jhMikeSAre you just gonna commit that little change since you did it already?
20:47:32amiconnYes, will do
20:47:48amiconnSaves 24 bytes on archos ;)
20:48:03voyeurRockboy plugin wouldn't work on sansa ? i didnt see it during the compilation
20:50:45preglowanyone volunteered to do the viewport stuff yet? :>
20:51:48preglowjhMikeS: i think "PCM Wave" is somewhat ambiguous a format name
20:51:59preglowbut can't really think of anything more descriptive a name myself, hmm
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20:52:04preglowsomething with RIFF in it :)
20:52:26 Quit lostnihilist (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:52:34jhMikeSIt's not a WAV with MP3 or ADPCM or anything
20:52:43jhMikeSIt's PCM...:)
20:52:55amiconnSomething is wrong with hwcodec recording....
20:52:56preglowyeah, know, but it doesn't really tell you what file format you're going to be using
20:53:17preglowbut like i said, can't think of anything most people would get easily anyway
20:53:21jhMikeSamiconn: where'd I blow the HWCODEC stuff? :O
20:53:37amiconnI get seemingly normal peakmeter display during recording, but the recorded file is almost silent :(
20:53:42preglowRaw PCM (WAV), Raw PCM (AIFF)
20:54:22jhMikeSamiconn: I'll check the minor change in audio_set_recording_options in mpeg.c
20:55:01 Join dpro [0] (
20:55:28***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:55:46jhMikeSpreglow: yeah, but I never though of anything with a header as "RAW"
20:55:51preglowh120 doesn't go too well with a shure sm58 without a preamp
20:56:16jhMikeSUncompressed PCM?
20:56:42jhMikeSWant to keep it short though and avoid scrolling
20:56:45preglowthe point being that "Wave" is somewhat useless, as it's not really apparent you're speaking about WAV
20:57:06amiconnPCM WAV
20:57:13jhMikeSAlso didn't want to lock it to a particular extension in the menus if that could ever be set
20:57:13amiconnOr WAV (PCM)
20:57:14preglowwould be nice for me
20:57:25preglowamiconn: that's the nicest
20:57:33*preglow wants AIFF :)
20:57:59amiconnjhMikeS: It's more a level setting issue. Did you care for the fact that HAVE_SPDIF_IN is defined for archos recorder?
20:58:13jhMikeSResource Interchange File Format (WAV)
20:58:24 Quit dpro (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:59:11*amiconn retries
20:59:15jhMikeSamiconn: rrgh...probably botched that by mistake but tried not to put SPDIF inside the SWCODEC #defines.
20:59:55amiconnHmm, seems I did something wrong... now it works.... strange :/
21:00:48jhMikeSDoes it only happen upon the first try if you reboot?
21:01:47jhMikeSpreglow: I have AIFF on the todo. Shouldn't be too much trouble. You should also try out one of the DSP plugins you were talking about
21:02:49amiconnSeems I messed up something this time
21:02:56amiconnCan't reproduce the problem now
21:02:56 Quit scorche (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:03:08preglowjhMikeS: what, is the api ready?
21:03:22preglow'cuz if it is, i'm trying it out right now
21:03:36amiconnHrmph, hanging build it seems
21:04:28 Join GFoux [0] (
21:05:15jhMikeSIt's not added to the plugin api yet but it's there
21:05:23 Part qailer ("Leaving")
21:05:40*amiconn thought that was fixed :(
21:05:49 Part Ana|
21:07:06preglowjhMikeS: just a quickie guide on what to add and i'll see if i'll give it a quick shot
21:07:06jhMikeSpreglow: If it requires anything else to work let me know
21:07:38jhMikeShold on...gotta check the espresso maker...brb
21:08:17amiconnjhMikeS: Hmm, does your commit include 88.2kHz playback?
21:09:29 Join lostnihilist [0] (
21:13:32jhMikeSamiconn: but for iRiver I think it's needs work
21:13:49jhMikeSOr maybe not...I'm using the WSPLL for that
21:14:04 Quit GreyFoux (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:14:08jhMikeSpreglow: you know how to use the pcm_play_data api?
21:14:36jhMikeSpreglow: basically just the reverse of that with pcm_record_data and pcm_stop_recording
21:15:27jhMikeSpreglow: use pcm_init_recording to initialize it and pcm_close_recording to stop it
21:15:49preglowjhMikeS: if i can't figure that out, i should be shot anyway
21:16:08 Join dpro [0] (
21:17:03jhMikeSuse pcm_set_frequency(sample rate), pcm_set_monitor(AFMT_*) and pcm_set_rec_source(AMFT_*) to set up audio
21:17:23jhMikeSThen call pcm_apply_settings to apply the settings to the hardware
21:17:50jhMikeSyou can pass true to pcm_apply_settings to reset IIS
21:18:25jhMikeSpardon me use : AUDIO_SRC_* values, not AFMT_* values :P
21:19:15jhMikeSuse rec_set_source(AUDIO_SRC_*, flags) to set the inputs
21:19:38 Quit rasher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:20:21 Quit Arathis ("[rl_bot quit]")
21:20:33*jhMikeS wondering if he forgot anything
21:20:43jhMikeSpcm_record.c uses it
21:21:28amiconnThere's a bug in the MAS recording setup
21:21:42amiconnIt doesn't pass through s/pdif
21:22:17jhMikeSpreglow: and recording.c uses the rec_set_source part
21:22:51jhMikeSpreglow: then there's the samplerate arrays and flags to determine what the hardware supports and some utility functions
21:25:50 Quit dpro (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:26:41 Join dpro [0] (
21:28:27preglowjhMikeS: 'fraid this'll just be a fast hack on my part
21:29:31jhMikeSanything that proves it works or not is good enough atm
21:30:29 Quit TheNickDe ("Leaving")
21:31:58preglowthink i'll cook up a fast chorus as the first thing
21:32:18preglowbut first let's see if basics work
21:32:21amiconnWow... the rockbox host took a whopping 1500 seconds for one single build
21:32:34 Join My_Sic [0] (i=51430540@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:32:57*amiconn reminds Bagder about the usefulness of handing out speculative builds...
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21:33:48*jhMikeS wonders about how to coordinate the two simultaneous DMA tranfers without gaps
21:34:19My_Sichie all
21:34:40My_Sicjust to say that the tagcache don't work on ipod 60go.
21:34:49My_Sicthey seems to be a limit of item
21:35:06 Join rigel [0] (
21:35:22My_Sicbecause if i have more than 4000 item in my tagcache db they d'ont work
21:35:22 Quit dpro (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
21:35:29rigelis there anything i can do to help get the fm radio support for the h10 working?
21:35:57My_Sicmaybe a constant limit but i haven't find it
21:36:27amiconnNow /that/ is a really long-standing bug :\
21:36:43SlasheriMy_Sic: hmm, what is the issue? there is no any constant limits in tagcache
21:36:54Slasherieverything should be dynamically allocated
21:36:59amiconninit_recording() doesn't set InterfaceControl...
21:37:10 Join dpro [0] (
21:38:06jhMikeSamiconn: that's the one on the Archos right? please say yes
21:39:37SoulDeaDmaybe silly question but... how do i run rockbox with qemu?
21:40:06markunSoulDeaD: I don't think anyone has done that
21:40:24 Quit dpro (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
21:40:50*jhMikeS wants preglow to work faster :)
21:41:00preglowjhMikeS: then do the plugin api thing :P
21:41:01 Join dpro [0] (
21:41:07SoulDeaDsomebody suggested me that i use qemu to run rockbox
21:41:15preglowright now i'm just hooking up some playback code to see if i ever got that work done properly
21:41:17SoulDeaDmaybe i have been fooled :)
21:41:35bluebrotherwhy should someone want to use qemu just to run rockbox?
21:41:45My_Sicso i don't know why they don't work
21:41:48SoulDeaDto debug it?
21:41:49preglowhmm, generating audio in the pcm callback itself is not wise, no? :>
21:42:03bluebrotherI prefer the native linux sim for that :)
21:42:16My_SicSlasheri: help me to find why they don't work
21:42:23SoulDeaDwhich is the native linux simulator for that?
21:42:27My_SicSlasheri: are their any debug output ?
21:42:58jhMikeSpreglow: depends I guess
21:43:34preglowjhMikeS: on what? just wondering if i need to set up some dual buffering scheme here
21:43:36bluebrotherSoulDeaD, when building Rockbox you can build it as simulator. Hardware specific stuff gets wrapped so everything that's not hw-dependend runs on the host.
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21:44:10jhMikeSpreglow: probably. you'll have to generate silence at first or start playback on the first available data out
21:44:56 Quit dpro (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:44:57jhMikeShmmm...thinking...could use the same buffer really
21:45:00SoulDeaDbluebrother i am interested in the hardware specific part...
21:45:01preglowjhMikeS: this might be made more problematic by the fact that playback and recording aren't syncronous, i guess
21:45:18jhMikeSthey are in terms of the rate of data
21:45:22preglowyes, sure
21:45:30bluebrotherhmm. I believe ther is nothing out there that emulates that.
21:45:32jhMikeSthat's about it
21:45:53preglowbut what would be best by far would be for recording and playback to be ready at the same time :>
21:46:04jhMikeScould probably use one buffer though
21:46:21SlasheriMy_Sic: can you compile rockbox? try enabling devel - logf
21:46:24jhMikeSyou'll always end up starting one slightly before the other
21:46:39Slasherithen you can use the logfdump feature in debug menu to create a log file containing error messages
21:46:46Slasheribut now i need to go ->
21:47:02My_Sicyes i can
21:47:10My_Sici will try
21:47:20My_Sicthey can take some minutes the time i start linux
21:47:50preglowseems like playback still needs to be stereo too
21:48:26*amiconn now has a nice hall effect machine
21:48:33jhMikeSif you have four indexes in one circular buffer |DMA read|Wet Mix Out|Dry Mix In|DMA Write| it should go.
21:48:51preglowamiconn: on hwcodec? :P
21:49:19 Join desowin [0] (n=desowin@unaffiliated/desowin)
21:49:34amiconnNah, that's called different. Reverb?
21:49:41amiconnpreglow: Yes
21:49:46amiconnNot the box alone though
21:49:58preglowand who said realtime effects wasn't possible
21:50:07desowincan anyone add to ?
21:50:10preglowjhMikeS: btw, in what context is the pcm callback called, really?
21:50:13amiconnI set the archos recorder to mic in, and connected it to my hifi set via s/pdif out
21:50:21preglowjhMikeS: if it's interrupt, i pretty much need to do double buffering, i guess
21:50:36amiconnThe s/pdif->analog converter (in the cd player) has a long delay (about half a second)
21:50:42preglowamiconn: _THAT_ long?
21:50:50jhMikeScould use the irq level as a mutex. can plugins do it?
21:50:58amiconnNow talking/making noises creates nice decaying echoes...
21:51:14preglowamiconn: try adjusting the gain up...
21:51:27amiconnArchos mic->spdif->analog->loudspeakers->mic...
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21:51:51preglowjhMikeS: probably, yeah, but it's not a very nice thing to do
21:52:03amiconnpreglow: Yes, that long
21:52:05ExclamationDjust wanted to know if rockbox will work on an ipod shuffle
21:52:17desowinExclamationD: no
21:52:17preglowjhMikeS: basically what i should do is calculate one buffer while waitinf for the pcm callback to use the other one
21:52:36preglowjhMikeS: also, whatever i pass along frmo the pcm callback just gets copied, right?
21:52:42ExclamationD:( thx, uses the buffer directly for the transfer over i2c
21:53:00preglowExclamationD: probably never will either
21:53:12preglowjhMikeS: wha, oh, i meant it gets copied to some other buffer
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21:53:20jhMikeSpreglow: no
21:53:28preglowjhMikeS: if it uses the buffer directly to transfer then i definitely need double buffering
21:53:31ExclamationDyeah, when i scap together some $ i will get a nano
21:53:32jhMikeSif you want that you'll have to do it...your choice
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21:54:30 Part Paul_the_Nerd
21:54:30jhMikeSbut like I said, a circular scheme might avoid the need for it
21:54:34gh0sti hope this is not a silly question, but i REALLY want to use rockbox for ipod 5g, so my question: is the battery life issue "fixed", because for me battery life is extremely important. If no, when will it "approximately" be fixed? thanks!
21:55:04Bagdergh0st: no its not "fixed"
21:55:10Bagderand no it can't be estimated
21:55:23gh0stthat's what i tought, thanks for info
21:55:44preglowjhMikeS: circular as in how? if i am to just use one buffer, then i would have to need to know how much of the buffer is already transmitted at all times, no?
21:55:54gh0sti just can imagine it surpassing the original firmware- how cool is that!?
21:56:00desowinI also would love to have 'fixed' battery life, damn apple don't support rockbox :P
21:56:33 Join scorche` [0] (
21:56:52desowingh0st: rockbox already surpass iPod firmware in almost everything, it's only worse in battery life :/
21:57:07 Quit scorche (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:57:29Soapgh0st - 10 hours continious is all I get out of a 60 gig 5th gen.
21:57:40gh0stdesowin: yeah, but a VERY important aspect ;-)
21:57:40Soapgh0st - expect less from a 30 gig.
21:57:54gh0stSoap: with rockbox?
21:57:56Soapthere is a battery runtime page on the wiki.
21:57:59Soapgh0st - yes.
21:58:15gh0stis it possible to completely turn off the display while playing
21:58:26gh0stbecause again, with apple's it's not possible
21:58:43 Part n1s
21:58:45SoapI got 11 hours of continious playback with unpatched rockbox, and routinely get about that "in the field" so to speak using the 64 meg patch.
21:58:58Soapgh0st - display completely off is not possible.
21:59:02Soapbacklight is.
21:59:14Soapbut that does not appear to be the main source of battery drain.
21:59:19desowingh0st: I made patch for it (not released it though, as it's rather dirty)
21:59:27gh0stbut wouldn't considerably make the battery life longer?:
21:59:35desowingh0st: and I didn't notice longer battery life
21:59:51desowingh0st: I have iPod mini 2nd gen
21:59:55gh0stbecause, after all, why showing the displa while it's in the ... POCKET?
22:00:07Soapconsiderably? no - I say that based on the fact that rockbox only accheives ~55% of apple runtime all things being equal, so there is obviously a problem which is not the screen.
22:00:35gh0stSoap: 55% only?
22:00:35Soapa major issue.
22:00:38Bagderindeed, also considering that Rockbox surpasses the OF on most other players
22:00:40jhMikeSpreglow: this one: |DMA read|Wet Mix Out|Dry Mix In|DMA Write|
22:00:48Soapgh0st - 55%.
22:01:27gh0stwell, that makes me think again about the installation of rockbox as an end user ...
22:01:37jhMikeSIf you keep the DMAs going and read/write between them they'll maintain they're relative position if they read/write at the same rate
22:02:23jhMikeSDon't read dry mix ahead of the write position and always keep wet mix ahead of the read position
22:02:28Soapgh0st - 60gig or 30gig?
22:02:43gh0stSoap 30gig
22:03:02Soapahh, so you are looking at 8ish hours.
22:03:03jhMikeSguess you just adjust the spacing as needed
22:03:55 Join scorche [0] (
22:04:01preglowjhMikeS: don't think i'd be able to pull that off right now
22:04:08scorchebah...looks like i hadnt fixed my connection problem =/
22:04:37 Quit scorche` (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
22:04:58 Join dpro [0] (
22:05:32jhMikeSIf you can get data in and play it back out at the same time in any way that's enough to say the APIs work
22:06:13amiconnEnabling s/pdif out for recording causes problems when recording from s/pdif in
22:06:30 Quit dpro (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
22:07:17jhMikeSamiconn: on coldfire or archos?
22:07:17 Join dpro [0] (
22:07:37 Join scorche` [0] (
22:07:41amiconnI guess the active s/pdif output signal triggers the "possible s/pdif input malfunction"
22:07:56 Quit scorche (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:09:43 Quit voyeur ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:09:43 Quit My_Sic ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:09:43 Quit lowlight ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:10:36Bagdersorry, I restarted the web server
22:11:14 Quit Blackfish ("( :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: )")
22:11:14 Quit dpro (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:11:34 Join scorche [0] (
22:11:54 Join dpro [0] (
22:11:58scorchewell, good news is that i know for sure what is causing it now
22:12:04scorchesorry for all of the join/quit
22:12:19 Quit scorche` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:13:51Bagderwe have a server load at 30+ on the server right now due to some friendly guy traversing the entire site including all diff links in the wiki
22:14:06amiconnWe can at least enable s/pdif out when recording from line in / mic
22:14:15 Quit gh0st ("Verlassend")
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22:15:45 Quit dpro (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:23:26Bagder203.144.143.3 is eating our bandwidth
22:23:37Bagderat least now we deny it
22:23:57Paul_the_NerdEating how?
22:24:06Bagderindexing the wiki really intense
22:24:17Bagderthe diffs and some of the other magic takes quite some CPU
22:25:13Bagderprobably someone doing wget or similar on the site
22:25:23jhMikeSshould just set it up to send back garbage to that address :)
22:25:37Bagderwell now all it gets is "forbidden"
22:25:55Bagderbut it continues to try
22:26:26Bagderbut that's ok, it doesn't require that much cpu or resource to just say "403"
22:26:57amiconnWhy not just deny access from that IP at the firewall?
22:27:05 Quit MarcoPolo (Remote closed the connection)
22:27:15amiconnRequires even less bandwidth and cpu power...
22:27:24Bagderbecause I'm not doing firewall admin for the whole company
22:27:25SoulDeaDbut it? more tricky
22:27:41SoulDeaDit may never return to this site
22:27:55SoulDeaDwhen it gets forbidden
22:29:54jhMikeSIt reports to be in Thailand...a cache
22:30:31SoulDeaDwhere did you check that
22:30:44jhMikeSDNS lookup didnīt say anything specific
22:31:12jhMikeSand the traceroute goes out through Los Angelis
22:31:35jhMikeSLos Angeles rather
22:31:54jhMikeSSince I'm in the US that seems about right
22:32:57SoulDeaDFrankfurt Paris NY for me
22:33:07bluebrotherjhMikeS, just tried the recording rework ... nice.
22:33:12 Join dpro [0] (
22:33:16blue_lizardmod_evasive and mod_security are your friends
22:33:20jhMikeSbluebrother: gracias
22:33:24amiconnjhMikeS: Haha, I get a route via US too
22:33:40bluebrotherbut that "Line in" has been confusing several times on h120 when users want to record with an external mic
22:33:46jhMikeSprobably throught the east coast to the west
22:33:51bluebrotherhow about renaming it to "external input"?
22:34:07bluebrotherand renaming "Mic" to "internal Mic"?
22:34:10jhMikeSCould just use the string Line-In/External Mic
22:34:45jhMikeSMakes sense to distinguish on the 120 I guess
22:35:17bluebrotherI don't know how this is on other players, but I guess this would clarify quite some confusion at least for h100 series.
22:35:59jhMikeSx5 has no official external mic input, just line-in so it wouldn't make sense there
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22:37:00peturyou mean it has no plug power?
22:37:01bluebrotherhmm. But can we use an external mic on that? My h120 has its inputs labelled "optical/line"
22:37:31*amiconn wonders what plug power has to do with external mic
22:37:42amiconnDynamic mics don't need power...
22:37:44peturmic power?
22:37:46jhMikeSblubrother: was answering petur
22:37:59jhMikeSpetur: no mic power on x5
22:38:15peturyes I understood that
22:38:20bluebrotherjhMikeS, that answered my question also partly :)
22:38:30jhMikeSoh, ok (to all) :)
22:38:51bluebrother(and I'd still prefer the recording screen not in a submenu of its own, but that's a different issue)
22:39:36*jhMikeS left menu structure alone as much as possible for debate later
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22:40:49*bluebrother agrees in that making sense
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22:43:04 Quit Ribs ("eh eh ehhhh!")
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22:46:08*jhMikeS wants lots of commits so that embarrasing score will disappear :)
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22:47:29*petur starts some recording tests
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22:48:17 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
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22:50:44preglowmy reset switch used to restart my player
22:50:50preglownow it just shuts it off
22:50:53*preglow wonders why
22:51:20Bagdernvidia buys portalplayer
22:51:50ender`wow, really?!
22:51:52SoulDeaDi donīt like this...
22:51:59Soapand publishes all specs!
22:51:59 Quit dpro (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:52:12SoulDeaDnvidia publish specs
22:52:15SoulDeaDno way
22:52:17petursee also the irc log of this evening ;)
22:52:39Soapbad joke on my part.
22:52:40preglowwhat the hell would they go and do that for
22:53:04Bagder?part of Nvidia?s overall handheld product strategy, likely combining PortalPlayer?s application processor with Nvidia?s graphic processor for mobile devices such as PDAs, game players and handphones. ?
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22:55:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:55:38Soapor they are flush with cash and wall street seems happy to reward horizontal mergers regardless of actual benifit?
22:55:39 Nick undefined is now known as SoulDeaD (
22:55:55Soapbut your theory sounds better, Bagder.
22:56:35Bagder"60% of our employees based in India and our other locations in Asia" (PP)
22:56:49jhMikeSPortal Player was tanking in general last I heard
22:57:15preglowi can't even get pcm_play_data to work now
22:57:29jhMikeSpreglow: it worked before? what's wrong?
22:58:05preglowprobably my fault, yes
22:59:08preglowrockbox hangs when i call pcm_play_data the first time
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22:59:37jhMikeSThe first call to your callback is on the thread that calls pcm_play_data so maybe that?
23:00:08preglowforget it, it still works, just me doing something fancy some place
23:00:32preglowfound an old sine sweep gen plugin i did that still works
23:00:47jhMikeSso the API works and you did something later to make it not work?
23:01:50 Quit MarcoPolo (Remote closed the connection)
23:02:19preglowchecking out now
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23:10:38thoutershi, i was wondering if the latest hardware revisions of the ipod nano are able to run rockbox
23:11:00preglowis all plugin sram allocated in the part of sram that can be used with dma?
23:11:11 Join nudelyn2 [0] (
23:11:17LearHeh, bought new headphones today. I think they are way too heavy on the bass, yet people on the net think they're either good or lacking in bass...
23:11:41amiconnpreglow: plugin iram cannot be used with dma
23:11:42jhMikeSAlready had a problem just accessing an IRAM varable from the DMA1 interrupt handler
23:12:01preglowamiconn: it seems to be working in my other plugin here...
23:12:14amiconnpreglow: On iriver, 16KB of the 48KB are DMA capable
23:12:26preglowthen i probably got lucky
23:12:31amiconnSo it might work depending on where it ends up
23:12:40amiconnRemember, that was the bug with doom on X5
23:12:59preglowi don't follow doom development too closely
23:13:38jhMikeSIt seems/seemed to be a bug in the midi player too
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23:14:33preglowwell, that sucks anyway
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23:14:41SoapLear - did you do the "burn in"? ;)
23:15:57amiconnpreglow: Doom used to allocate the sound buffer in iram, and it uses pcm_play_data() for playing
23:16:11amiconnBut on X5, none of the plugin iram is dma capable...
23:16:12LearSoap: how do I do that?
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23:20:30jhMikeSpreglow: BTW the one that changes the audio settings is the one responsible for resetting them. Just call all the functions with -1 and the apply function when exiting.
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23:21:46preglowis pcm_play_data one shot?
23:22:19preglowi seem to be calling it once for every buffer in my old code...
23:23:15 Quit GFoux ("Le vrai danger, c'est quand les hommes penseront comme les ordinateurs")
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23:24:24 Join adk920 [0] (i=44c2456c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:24:47adk920ahh anyone else have trouble getting onto this server through mIRC?
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23:25:46adk920so who here's got ipod games?
23:25:58hcsthe apple ones?
23:26:17adk920is warez talk allowed in here?
23:26:24adk920about ipod games
23:26:31preglowthis would be the place to talk about rockbox stuff
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23:27:06adk920my friend told me there's a new version coming out that's not an ipod linux but rather a modded apple firmware
23:27:21preglowwouldn't know anything about that, but it is possible
23:27:30markunadk920: new version of what?
23:27:42jhMikeSwarez warez warez
23:27:44preglowrockbox isn't modded apple firmware
23:27:48preglowrockbox is coded from scratch
23:27:49adk920idk he said he saw it in the in development section
23:28:05adk920I was just curious to know if he was just lieing
23:28:24adk920yea it's very impressive best ipod linux i've seen
23:28:34hcsuh, it is not linux
23:28:34Paul_the_NerdIt's not Linux
23:28:35 Quit bawb2 (Remote closed the connection)
23:28:41Paul_the_NerdIt's coded from scratch.
23:29:05adk920oh well then sry for that
23:30:16 Quit Criamos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:30:31*Paul_the_Nerd wonders if there's somewhere mistakenly calling us Linux openly, and that's why people keep thinking it.
23:30:32markunadk920: which 'development section' was your friend talking about?
23:31:04 Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
23:31:32amiconnNote to self: If something doesn't sound right, don't just assume there is a bug in rockbox. Always check the input signal as well :/
23:31:59 Join voyeur [0] (i=58a10615@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:32:15adk920markun he said it I looked for it didn't find one that's when I saw you guys had an irc chat
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23:32:33preglowamiconn: haha
23:32:35amiconnThere is nothing wrong with s/pdif monitoring while s/pdif recording, but my dab tuner messed up its output signal
23:32:43adk920no one told me it was linux I stumbled upon it and assumbed it was,
23:32:57*petur wonders what's the best way to ship his squeezebox (from Belgium) to the US...
23:33:10preglowjhMikeS: but yeah, play_pcm_data is just supposed to be called once, yes?
23:33:30adk920so what type of ipods do you all have?
23:33:31preglowold code seems to wprk, though, so obviously calling it again and again works too :P
23:33:38adk920or mp3 players
23:33:49markunadk920: iriver h120 and toshiba gigabeat f40
23:34:24adk920i've got an ipod 4g (original) and 5g 60gb
23:34:38adk920I always tend to buy them right before they release the new model
23:34:49NickDeI dont like ipods at all
23:34:57jhMikeSpreglow: depends on if you just want to play a clip once or not or play data continuously
23:35:03NickDeI audio X5 for me
23:35:17NickDe*iAudio X5
23:35:24hcsI have an ipod photo
23:35:37adk920when I first bought my ipod 4g I broke it 6 times from data corruption
23:35:48adk920good thing it's got a warranty :)
23:36:11NickDedoes rockbox on H120 support the Opt. out?
23:36:17 Quit voyeur (Client Quit)
23:36:23NickDeI assume it does.. not sure if its s function of the hardware or software
23:36:24NickDeoh WOW
23:36:25NickDethats cool
23:37:15preglowjhMikeS: continuously
23:37:18jhMikeSthose folks I bought the H120 from _really_ want me to buy their extended warranty for $20.
23:37:50jhMikeSthen pass NULL and 0 for the size and the callback should return the pointer and size
23:38:19preglowyeap, that's what i'm doing
23:38:33jhMikeSah...then everythings ok
23:39:21adk920wait does rockbox play avi files?
23:39:37preglowjhMikeS: and it'll continue calling back until i return 0 in the callback, or do i actually need to call pcm_play_stop?
23:39:41preglowadk920: no
23:39:51jhMikeSit will stop when the size is 0
23:39:57preglowgoodie, then all i do is right
23:40:00adk920while loop
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23:41:02jhMikeSfor recording, a non zero *size upon input indicates an error so the value returned must be > 0 to continue
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23:41:37*jhMikeS runs away from JdGordon :P
23:41:47JdGordonuh oh!
23:41:55preglowi think i need to go to bed now anyway
23:41:58jhMikeSYou'll have to sync your patch again
23:42:23amiconnjhMikeS: Well, if the warranty is so extended that it covers rockbox hacking... ;)
23:42:26jhMikeSpreglow: awww...but good night. will wait eagerly for progress
23:42:43jhMikeSThink not: It's supposed to already be covered by iRiver
23:43:04 Join dpro [0] (
23:43:15jhMikeSThey just want more moolah
23:44:46 Quit Id2ndR ("Parti")
23:44:55Paul_the_NerdI've had some good luck with extended warranties in the past, but it always depends.
23:45:34Paul_the_NerdFor example my current one on my Laptop covers everything but intentional abuse (including accidental damage, and to the screen, which is nice)
23:45:37jhMikeSI've never had anything really break on me
23:46:05jhMikeSexcept Dell monitors
23:46:05Paul_the_NerdOnly time I've ever had something break is when a guest knocks over a table, or something similar.
23:46:11Paul_the_NerdIt's *other* people I don't trust. neither
23:46:42Soapmy last two Dell laptops had keyboards which failed.
23:46:50hcs'scool, I don't trust you guys either
23:47:15jhMikeSDell is crap...had to send back one monitor three times and another once
23:47:29*Paul_the_Nerd has run 2 laptops into the ground now.
23:47:29 Quit dpro (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:47:49Paul_the_NerdI can only assume they didn't expect to be used in a primary-computer capacity.
23:48:21jhMikeSAnother computer was a total lemon...with an nVidia card that had a fan that kept failing and then the chip would eat itself alive in the heat. Eventually I just removed that fan an put a normal power supply fan to blow on it.
23:48:39 Join dpro [0] (
23:49:20 Quit MarcoPolo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:49:25adk920lol my friend dell's hdd died a week after he got it
23:50:02jhMikeSThe Dell has a HD die because the bearing leaked lube all over the bottom platter
23:50:29SoapI haven't had that happen since 198x
23:50:50jhMikeSWas a WesternDigital drive
23:51:17hcs198x, eh? I'd blame Dr. Wiley.
23:51:49Soapyea 30 MB old SCSI, forget the brand, made a clock out of it.
23:51:51preglowjhMikeS: don't hold your breath, might not have time tomorrow
23:51:53preglowanywho, gnight
23:51:58Soapsorrt off topic, I'll shut up.
23:52:29 Quit dpro (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:52:47jhMikeSpreglow: 'night
23:54:22tim66Paul_the_Nerd: hi, did you break an iriver remote recently?
23:55:12Paul_the_Nerdtim66: Not lately, no. But I did finally get a replacement so the opportunity is available again
23:55:12*jhMikeS asks: is a little off-topic discussion really so bad if the traffic is low and it's not watering down on-topic discussion?
23:56:06tim66paul_the_nerd: don't suppose you have a broken one spare, but with a working cable&plug?
23:56:20hcsI'm looking for a handy way to invert a rectangle that will work on any bitmapped display. Is there some code I could use, as I don't see anything obvious in the plugin API?
23:56:48jhMikeS~pixel ?
23:56:59Paul_the_Nerdtim66: I actually have two semi-broken ones, I'm not sure where the damage is, it's most likely in the cable somewhere
23:57:13 Part adk920
23:57:14Paul_the_NerdThey're packed, as I semi-recently moved (occurred after the breaking) but I can try to dig them up
23:58:10amiconnhcs: If you mean invert as in negating all pixels: set draw mode to DRMODE_COMPLEMENT, then use lcd_fillrect()
23:58:25hcsamiconn: yes, that's exactly what I mean, thanks
23:58:48Paul_the_Nerdtim66: One of them actually is *almost* fully functional, except for the play button not working at all, but the damage occurred by the cable catching on something, so I have to assume it's related to the connection somehow
23:58:58jhMikeSthen the calling function has to say "thank you" :)

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