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#rockbox log for 2006-11-08

00:00:18bit-manI don't at what parity, buad, etc
00:00:42rasherHey, the h120 (maybe others) has a serial port onboard
00:01:55rasherI doubt you could plug serial into the remote port and be able to read anything from it
00:02:06 Join Blackvulcano [0] (
00:02:17bit-manI'm thinkin the same thing
00:02:28bit-manI wish I had a background in hardware ;)
00:02:48bit-manH10 Remote Control provides Power ON/OFF, Play, Pause, Previous, Next, and Volume control functionalities
00:03:17 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
00:03:20Blackvulcanopeople here know stuff about albumart? running latest rockbox kosh build on the H320
00:03:23 Join jhMikeS [0] (
00:04:09BlackvulcanoI got albumart running for the Icatcher theme but cat's get it up for the grey't theme for some reason
00:04:34BlackvulcanoI got the .wps right here and I need some help with the tagline or something to get it to work
00:04:50 Part tvelocity ("Αποχώρησε")
00:05:26rasherI have no idea about album art.
00:05:36rasherAnd little about wps in general
00:06:03bit-manrasher you're worthless ;)
00:06:14rasherWhy don't you ask the wps author?
00:06:27Blackvulcanocuz the theme is like 4 months old
00:06:33rasherOr ask in the Kosh thread on misticriver
00:06:47rasherThey're more likely to know
00:06:55rasherPeople here generally run vanillar Rockbox
00:06:57BlackvulcanoI was hoping maybe one of you guys had a quick fix
00:07:53 Quit voyeur ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:08:57*linuxstb wonders why the album art patch author never comes here to discuss the patch...
00:09:09 Nick polizei is now known as Rondom (
00:09:48 Join Rob2222_ [0] (
00:10:06rasherI do believe lowlight now has to finish my simulator patch.
00:10:18rasherHm, he left
00:10:30rasherGuess not, then
00:10:38 Quit Rondom (Remote closed the connection)
00:14:01 Join Rondom [0] (
00:14:24 Quit matsl ("Leaving")
00:15:23 Quit Rondom (Client Quit)
00:17:47 Quit ender` (" Pets are better than children because: 11. If they get pregnant, you can sell their children.")
00:22:36 Quit bit-man ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:25:39 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:26:08 Join Quelsaruk [0] (
00:26:12Quelsarukhi hi
00:26:28amiconnlo lo
00:27:00 Join MadDog011 [0] (
00:27:08 Part MadDog011
00:27:22Quelsarukhow's everything? it's been a long time since i last visited the chat
00:31:51 Quit CriamosAndy ("( :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: )")
00:33:34Nimdaeif i copy my ipod drive contents to a temp location, format the drive fat32, then copy the data back, will it still work?
00:34:10 Quit Blackvulcano (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:37:46linuxstbYes, Rockbox will be perfectly happy if you do that.
00:42:43Nimdaei don't think i'll be sad to lose the apple firmware tbh
00:42:56Nimdaejust having some filesystem odities
00:47:44 Join obo [0] (
00:48:56Nimdaefsck wouldn't fix it either (actually kept segfaulting), hoping i can even grab the data off...hoping the drive didn't die...
00:51:01JdGordonamiconn: you still around?
00:52:26Nimdaethere is a hidden partition on the drive, is thisnormal?
00:54:18Nimdaewhat is that?
00:54:34JdGordonthe apple firmware iirc
00:56:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:56:45amiconnJdGordon: yes
00:57:04JdGordonhow often should ata_mmc call the callbacks?
00:57:07JdGordonevery 15min?
00:57:10amiconnNimdae: It's the firmware partition. It contains the apple firmware and/or the rockbox bootloader
00:58:16 Quit damaki (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:58:21amiconnWhy use a special timer? Why not just when something else gets written?
00:58:49amiconnIt would replicate the behaviour of the standard ata driver this way
00:59:06 Quit TeaSeaLancs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:59:11 Quit obo ("bye")
00:59:38amiconnWritten or read, of course
01:00:17 Part Quelsaruk ("Time makes no sense")
01:00:18 Quit Febs ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:00:19JdGordonyou want to call the callbacks from ata_flush?
01:00:30amiconnNo, why?
01:00:36amiconnThe mmc thread could do it
01:00:56amiconnCalling from ata_flush could be problematic
01:01:04JdGordonmmc thread is only there for HOTSWAP, unless thats always...
01:01:45JdGordonthat thread only deals with SYS_USB_CONNECTED ans SYS_MMC_*.. what event do i use to call the callbacks?
01:02:01amiconnHow do you do it in ata.c?
01:02:09JdGordonwhen its idle
01:02:59JdGordoni suppose i could use last_disk_activity...
01:04:23amiconnlast_disk_activity is updated with every write or read
01:05:09amiconnThe tricky part is that the notify callbacks cause accesses themselves
01:05:26 Join wuwei [0] (
01:05:56JdGordonthe callback routine can be called twice
01:06:02wuweiHello? SOS! I cant turn off my rockbox (Iriver H340)
01:06:08JdGordonit NULLs allt he callbacks before calling them
01:06:36JdGordonwuwei: use the reset pin
01:06:58JdGordonamiconn: I think waiting 10s after last_disk_activity before calling the cbs would be safe?
01:06:59amiconnThat sounds like accesses will be bogged down
01:07:05wuweioooh jdGordon u legend thanks....searches for reset pib
01:07:10 Join damaki [0] (
01:07:13JdGordonunder the mic
01:07:27amiconnWhat about shutdowns?
01:07:35amiconn(and usb connects, etc)
01:07:43JdGordonlinus reckons we dont worry about that at all
01:07:54JdGordonthread in the dev ml
01:08:24amiconnImho the callbacks must be called before shutdown
01:08:32Nimdaecrap, the drive in my ipod just threw an I/O error
01:08:35amiconn...and before usb connect
01:08:40Nimdaethis isn't good
01:08:46JdGordonhe reckons let the cb owners deal with it, but i agree with you
01:09:17 Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection)
01:09:27 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC")
01:09:40 Quit Tempis (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
01:09:50 Join Tempis [0] (
01:09:52amiconnThe whole purpose of these callbacks is that the callback owners don't need to deal with monitoring ata activity themselvs
01:10:01JdGordonthat would mean i wouldnt have to put " extern bool flush_config_block_callback(void); /* from apps/settings.c */ " in firmware/powermgmnt.c
01:10:09 Quit wuwei ()
01:10:29JdGordonNimdae: is it still under warrenty?
01:10:34amiconnCurrently there are several places which do so, and that's bad
01:11:18amiconnA monitoring thread might easily miss a spinup, or might catch it a little too late, and spinup again immediately after spindown
01:11:37amiconnThe ata driver *knows* when the disk spins up
01:12:12JdGordonI tihnk the ata thread should call the cbs and any owning threads should call them also, whichever calls first will remove it so this is safe
01:12:14amiconnSo the centralised callback mechanism saves code _and_ is more efficient
01:12:51amiconnI wouldn't want the owning thread to do redundant work. It's a waste
01:13:24JdGordonyes, but that thread could "exit" before ata, which means the cb could cause problems
01:13:43amiconnThe callback runs in ata thread context, doesn't it?
01:14:05amiconnSo the owning thread isn't involved
01:14:17 Part Paul_the_Nerd
01:14:20amiconn...other than it registers the callback.
01:14:33JdGordonunless the callback puts an event on the "owning" thread.. like what how the buffer filling works
01:14:51JdGordonthats a bad example because it reads instead of writes, but ti could work both ways
01:15:14amiconnThe buffer filling is a special case. It doesn't need to happen at shutdown, obviously
01:16:57amiconnBtw, ata_idle_notify_init() can be simplified
01:17:19amiconnmemset(ata_idle_notify_funcs, 0, sizeof(ata_idle_notify_funcs));
01:17:24JdGordonI tihnk I want to change the unregister function to optionally call the function when its unregistered
01:21:38amiconnHmm, in the ata.c callback implementation there are some things which are looking suspicious to me...
01:22:17Nimdaewow, it had an i/o error then the drive was no longer accessible, rebooted ipod, reconnected to computer, was working again
01:22:33Nimdaedoes this sound like a dying drive as much to yall as it does to me?
01:22:56amiconnWhat happens to Q_SLEEP when a callback is registered?
01:23:39amiconnAnother thing is that the callbacks are only called when the ata thread decides the disk should go to sleep it effectively extends the disk spinning time
01:24:22JdGordonit works as expected... if the cb does any disk access then the shutdown timer starts again... and no, they are called every 5 sec while the disk is idle but spinning
01:24:24amiconnImho the ata thread should start calling the callbacks if the disk is spinning and there is a short idle period
01:24:39amiconn(1 or 2 seconds)
01:24:48JdGordonelse if (TIME_AFTER(current_tick, last_callback_run+(HZ*5))) <- change that to 2?
01:25:40amiconnHmm. Guess I would need to see live behaviour of that code, both on swcodec and hwcodec
01:26:06JdGordonive watched the logf output and it looks ok
01:26:27JdGordonbut atm only 2 things are registered..
01:26:28amiconnThe fact that callback disk activity restarts the spindown timer is what I am concerned about
01:26:35amiconnIt will break Q_SLEEP
01:26:44JdGordonno, it will delay it.. not break it
01:26:58amiconn case Q_SLEEP:
01:26:59amiconn last_disk_activity = current_tick - sleep_timeout + (HZ/2);
01:27:20JdGordonoh yeah, your right
01:27:24amiconnThat adjusts last_disk_activity backwards to make it spin down half a second later
01:28:03JdGordoncase Q_SLEEP:
01:28:03JdGordon call_ata_idle_notifys();
01:28:04JdGordon last_disk_activity = current_tick - sleep_timeout + (HZ/2);
01:28:04DBUGEnqueued KICK JdGordon
01:28:04JdGordon break;
01:28:05amiconn..but then the sleep timeout will cause the callbacks to be called, and that resets last_disk_activity the standard way
01:29:10JdGordononly the plugins call ata_sleep anyway
01:29:30JdGordonoh, and mpeg.c
01:29:32amiconnThe playback engine does it too after rebuffering
01:29:47JdGordonno, that was removed.. it defeated the purpose of this
01:30:02JdGordonbut if they are called before sleeping then it can go back
01:30:49amiconnAnother 2 suspicious things:
01:30:52JdGordonapart from user activity, buffering was the only way the disk would spin up.. so ata_sleep meant they were never called... but with what you said before im all confused
01:31:25amiconn(1) The callbacks are called every 5 seconds while the disk is spinning, regardless of other activity, which might be more important and shouldn't be disturbed
01:31:59amiconnThe callbacks should only be called if there is a short period of inactivity
01:32:43amiconnOf course that doesn't guarantee that subsequent activity won't be delayed, but it guarantees that the callbacks don't get in the way of continuous activity
01:33:24amiconnAnd finally, I don't understand why the disk is only sent to sleep when there were no callbacks to call
01:33:25JdGordonwhat about changing that to checking if the ata_mtx has been unlocked for 2 s?
01:33:56amiconnHmm, that makes sense if the callbacks are asynchronous
01:34:48amiconnAsynchronous callbacks are indeed a problem
01:35:35CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
01:35:35*amiconn doesn't like that \:
01:37:21amiconnRemoving ata_sleep() from playback wastes energy
01:37:39JdGordonthen the cb run has to be put into the Q_SLEEP case
01:37:52JdGordonbefore adjusting alst_disk_access
01:37:58amiconnYes, but that forbids asynchronous callbacks
01:38:17JdGordonlike the rebuffering?
01:38:35amiconnOtherwise one 2 2 things might happen depending on the timing
01:38:40JdGordonbuffer refilling i mean
01:38:42amiconn*one of 2
01:39:24amiconn(1) if the callback triggers action fast enough, the action will happen before spindown, but still kill the Q_SLEEP effect
01:40:04amiconn(2) if the callback triggers too slow, the diskk will already be spun down, and then spin up again - even worse
01:40:18amiconnI think we must not allow asynchronous callbacks
01:41:48JdGordon(if im getting the async bit worng tell me...) the only async cb atm is the buffer reffiling, which checks ata_is_active() before doin the actual refilling, so i tihnk its still safe
01:42:13JdGordonand then that would call ata_sleep again, so the sleep still works
01:43:41amiconnAT least that special case should be well documented, how and why asynchronous operation works there, and that other callbacks must not do this
01:44:29 Join Rob2222 [0] (
01:44:33JdGordonI was going to document the usage anyway, so I can make a note about how async cb's should work
01:45:36amiconnAsynchronous callbacks _might_ work correctly if there is nothing that yields between the check for ata activity and the actual operation
01:45:55JdGordonany thread that does that is just stupid
01:46:13JdGordonrb cant swap threads unless yield or sleep is called right?
01:46:43JdGordonso it shouldnt be a problem
01:47:09amiconnBut some functions perform a yield without the developer expecting it lcd_update() on ipod video
01:47:46JdGordonbut if your checking ata_is_active, its safe to assume your going to access it now, and not draw first
01:49:20amiconnThat was only an example
01:49:48amiconnThere might be more functions which yield unexpectedly... so one has to be careful
01:51:29JdGordonIs it possible to check if a mutex is locked without pausing the thread waiting for it?
01:51:57JdGordonor i just check the mutex.locked vairable :p
01:56:55JdGordonamiconn: ? or continue this in the morning?
02:00:16 Quit Rob2222_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:14:21 Quit Captain_A (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:17:24 Join Zeph [0] (
02:17:36 Nick Zeph is now known as ice (
02:17:51 Nick ice is now known as [iCE] (
02:18:12 Nick [iCE] is now known as [Zeph] (
02:18:33[Zeph]hey, is anyone here?
02:19:22dan_aHey [Zeph], some people are
02:19:32[Zeph]great :] i have a question
02:19:39[Zeph]i just installed rockbox on my h10
02:19:57[Zeph]and the scroling is funny
02:20:17[Zeph]is it supposed to be like that? completely different.. i cant drag my finger on the touchpad anymore
02:20:30dan_aWhat do you mean by funny?
02:20:31[Zeph]plus i found a bug in the snake2 game
02:21:10[Zeph]as i just said. cant drag my finger on the touchpad
02:21:43[Zeph]top to bottom.. only single pressing or leaving my finger on the top\bottom
02:21:59 Join TeaSea [0] (n=thunderc@
02:22:16[Zeph]do u understand what im saying..? kinda hard to explain
02:22:21[Zeph]scrolling is just not comfortable.
02:22:51dan_aI don't have an H10, but I thought that the scrollpad was working properly on it.
02:23:09dan_abarrywardell is probably the best person to speak to about that.
02:23:54[Zeph]cant see him here
02:24:11dan_aHe's often around during the daytime and the evening (GMT)
02:24:43[Zeph]and the album cover picture thingy wont work also
02:24:57 Part pixelma
02:25:14[Zeph]i named the .bmp file same as the album's name in id3tag and put it in the album's folder
02:25:15dan_aThe album art is not an official part of Rockbox yet
02:25:16[Zeph]and nadda
02:25:28[Zeph]so i dont even have it installed
02:25:32[Zeph]problem solved
02:25:37[Zeph]i thought it was in there
02:27:07dan_aFor the snake2 bug, the best thing is probably to file a report in the bug tracker:
02:27:24 Quit funky ("leaving")
02:27:39[Zeph]and another thingy if you dont mind
02:28:06[Zeph]there was this comparison chart between what the original firmware has to offer and what rockbox has to offer, and i cant find it
02:28:13[Zeph]i dont remember where i saw it, do u know it?
02:28:52dan_aThis one: ?
02:29:07[Zeph]haha you rock
02:29:40[Zeph]im done and off to sleep.. ill try talkin to that barry guy you mentioned later
02:29:56dan_aYou're welcome
02:30:02dan_aI'm gone too.
02:30:07 Quit dan_a ()
02:49:45 Quit EspeonEefi ("Leaving")
02:56:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:41:35 Nick rotator_afk is now known as rotator (n=e@
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03:50:19 Join webguest45 [0] (i=473a5360@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
03:50:53webguest45could somebody compile me a rockbox build... i have given up after trying numerous times both cygwin and debian
03:51:14webguest45i can patch all the files.... just the build comes out around 400 kb and without a .ipod file
03:51:29webguest45(szorry i forgot to mention this is for my ipod)
03:52:09 Quit midkay (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
03:54:08 Quit rakslice ()
03:54:26aliaskwebguest45: A better long term solution would be to work out the small problems, and I can help you do that
03:55:10webguest45ok thanks
03:55:34aliaskCan you build a clean cvs?
03:55:36webguest45do you want me to list the patches i applied?
03:55:44webguest45haven't tried
03:56:04aliaskBetter to work out the kinks before adding more complications.
03:56:17webguest45will i need to redownload from CVS?
03:57:05webguest45what do i type to go up a directory?
03:57:11aliaskcd ..
03:59:51 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
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04:00:59JdGordonoh farking hell
04:01:03webguest45ok its downloading i had some directory issues
04:02:09aliaskJdGordon: ?
04:02:17JdGordoni stuffed the build again :p
04:02:23aliaskNice :)
04:03:25aliaskwebguest45: Once you've got the clean CVS make a new folder in the same folder that has "apps" "firmware" etc. Call it "compile" or something. Go into that directory and type "../tools/configure" and follow the prompts.
04:03:47JdGordonand dont bother untill i fix this :p
04:03:59aliaskOh right, yes, that too :)
04:04:42webguest45does it matter that i'm using an older build (october 15)... this is for patch compatibility
04:04:58aliaskDo you mean an old CVS?
04:05:53*scorche watches as JdGordon racks up a higher score with every commit
04:06:04JdGordonim still well behind jhMikeS
04:06:25scorchebut it is going up
04:06:40scorchebtw, aliask: you owe me another beer
04:06:42JdGordonok, all fixed
04:06:44scorchei was right =)
04:07:16aliaskscorche: Howso?
04:07:27aliaskwebguest45: An old CVS shouldn't matter
04:07:32 Quit blue_lizard (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:07:34 Quit midkay ("*poff*")
04:07:36*scorche points to the box sitting on his lap
04:07:42 Join blue_lizard [0] (
04:09:06jhMikeSJdGordon: can't seem get an answer on the all time record score. anyone know it?
04:09:22scorcheyou were pretty damn high..
04:09:25JdGordoni dont... we should do a wiki page
04:09:43jhMikeSAnyone ever top 10k?
04:10:00JdGordonnot that i rememeber
04:10:43jhMikeSshoulda left out more stuff :P
04:10:54aliaskscorche: Wow that was actaully earlier than amazon said :)
04:11:26webguest45aliask: well it seems to be compiling so far
04:11:27scorchealiask: i told you it would be here today ;)
04:11:41aliaskExcellent (to both of you) :)
04:12:43webguest45aliask: while its compiling i'll ask you... will I need to go patch by patch and compile it to see if it creates problems? has a start button
04:13:13 Join menosm_ [0] (
04:13:26aliaskwebguest45: Well, if the patches are causing problems, then that would be a good way to figure out which one it is
04:14:01 Quit ScoTTie (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
04:14:37webguest45aliask: the patches I would like to apply would be the two multifont patches, customline, custom position, and custom display position, album art, bmp resize, and kalthares 5.5g playlist patch
04:14:46*jhMikeS is organizing firmware/sources big time
04:15:04webguest45there is an already prebuilt build on the forums, but I need the custom position patches to allow jClix
04:15:31webguest45aliask: so a clean CVS built correctly
04:15:35 Join TrueJournals [0] (
04:16:11webguest45aliask: the question I'm asking is that would I be able to find the problem before compiling it?
04:16:21JdGordonjhMikeS: awesome :D
04:16:25aliaskwebguest45: Did the patches apply cleanly?
04:16:52JdGordonoh farking hell....
04:16:54JdGordonstill red
04:17:00webguest45most did
04:17:00*JdGordon is glad sweden is asleep :D
04:17:07webguest45i think one had an error?
04:17:29webguest45lol is it possible to 'unpatch' before compiling if you realize and error happened?
04:19:08aliaskwebguest45: You can reverse a patch, but I don't know how well that works if the patch didn't apply cleanly (use the -r switch to reverse a patch)
04:20:20webguest45im not able to download from CVS anymore...
04:20:25JdGordonawesome... jhMikeS's massive recording patch is about to be sent into the oblivion!
04:21:30 Quit menosm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:21:31*scorche giggles a bit to find out that JdGordon's score really is going up with every commit
04:22:25 Join Soap [0] (n=Clean@unaffiliated/s0ap)
04:24:57 Quit webguest45 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
04:24:59jhMikeSmay you hit the 10000 mark :D...good luck!
04:25:06 Join webguest45 [0] (i=473a5360@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
04:27:46JdGordonback to green :D
04:28:02aliaskGrats! :p
04:32:31 Part TrueJournals
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04:39:03Davide-NYCjhMikeS: did you see my post on the forums?
04:39:13webguest45aliask: i think i've narrowed it down to the font patches
04:39:46webguest45im getting things like 'error: struct user_settings has no member named 'font_file'
04:40:30aliaskwebguest45: Looks like you'll have to apply the font patches manually then
04:40:46aliaskOpen the .patch files up, and it should be pretty self-explanatory
04:41:45webguest45im no developer... but these patches look a lot like flash's actionscript
04:43:31aliaskThe patches are simple replacement instructions, there's a line number where it starts looking, then a line with a - in front to show what to delete, then a line with a + to indicate what to insert
04:44:20 Join |AhIoRoS| [0] (n=ahioros@
04:47:34 Join Covert [0] (i=c86c0c6c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
04:48:19webguest45upon further reading (i'm still not sure I understand) the font patches I wanted to apply depended on custom display patch, so I patched them in the wrong order
04:51:28jhMikeSDavide-NYC: yes
04:53:03 Quit Covert ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
04:53:34jhMikeSDavide-NYC: I'm thinking it's a bit strange to hide stuff "behind". I'm not sure I quite get it yet.
04:54:20 Quit Soap ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
04:54:22jhMikeSI get the adding a line part to the WRS to display the live sample rate
04:55:05jhMikeSThere definitely needs to be an indictation if things aren't matching up
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04:56:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:57:06jhMikeSDoes that have to show up on the remote?
04:57:16Davide-NYCotp brb
04:57:30*jhMikeS doesn't think serious recording should be done with the remote
04:59:55webguest45aliask: how would I manually add lcd-16bit.rej to lcd-16bit.c
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05:01:18aliaskwebguest45: Open it up in a text editor and see what didn't get patched correctly, then manually edit those lines (it could take a while, but it's the most thorough way)
05:02:16webguest45.. how do I find line 750,756?
05:02:38 Quit menosm_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:03:21aliaskThat'd be line 750
05:03:25aliask(I think)
05:04:03webguest45so its lines 750 and ends at 756
05:04:16webguest45there is two sets of info, one is a - and the other is a +
05:04:24webguest45so I search for the -
05:04:29webguest45and then replace it with the +
05:05:15webguest45wait on the linux it says .o
05:05:18webguest45i only have a .c
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05:05:43aliaskThe linux?
05:06:14webguest45the terminal in linux
05:06:27aliaskWhat about the .o?
05:06:42webguest45i don't have a lcd 16bit.o file
05:06:46webguest45i only have a .c?
05:07:02JdGordonis the patch looking for a .o?
05:07:03aliaskThat's fine, it's talking about the object file. You don't need to worry about that
05:12:06webguest45the next reject file doesn't have any minus...
05:12:35aliaskJust pluses?
05:13:19webguest45yes, but one section has neither?
05:13:19 Quit midkay ("*poff*")
05:13:43webguest45ahh is that possibly the reason it didn't work?
05:13:49aliaskJust pluses should be pretty self explanatory, and I guess you should just ignore that section
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05:14:01aliaskSee if it compiles if you just ignore that part
05:18:20jhMikeSDavide-NYC: I have to go to bed. Talk to you later...'night.
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05:18:44Davide-NYCgood night
05:19:57 Quit |AhIoRoS| ("Abandonando, see you")
05:20:40webguest45ahh thanks aliask for the help but im gonna have to quit for the nite
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05:20:49webguest45I appreciate the help and I'll continue tommorow
05:20:58aliaskNo worries, good luck tomorrow
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05:39:42Nimdaeis there a command to eject a usb device in linux?
05:39:47Nimdaeor just umount it?
05:44:00JdGordonumount <mount point>
05:44:12JdGordone.g umount /mnt/usb
05:44:38Nimdaebut like on my desktop, i can "eject" it, which puts the ipod in a mode that is "ok" to disconnect, whereas umount doesn't do that
05:44:58JdGordonthere is a shortcut on your desktop with eject?
05:45:05Nimdaeshortcut to the ipod
05:45:10Nimdaedclick to open
05:45:14JdGordonok, use that
05:45:17Nimdaerick click brings up a context menu that includes eject
05:45:25Nimdaeit's not plugged into my desktop, that's at home ;)
05:45:36Nimdaei brought it to work to transfer some stuff
05:45:41Nimdaeand found fs errors
05:45:47JdGordonthen use umount
05:47:57 Quit [sellout] (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:49:05Nimdaeactually, i just discovered the eject command, heh
05:49:19Nimdaei'll see if that works after i'm done restoring the ipod
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05:59:59elljaydoes rockbox support flac?
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06:32:30Nimdaeeject command seems to work great, yay
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06:56:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:01:34aliaskIt's been quiet here today
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08:04:07amiconnJdGordon: I didn't test it yet (will do as soon as I have a little time), but the code in ata_mmc.c looks really nasty
08:04:39amiconnIt doesn't look like it yields at all...
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08:06:29amiconnYep, total freeze already at bootup
08:16:45Nimdaeguess i will avoid that update for now
08:16:58amiconnThat affects the Ondio only
08:18:32amiconnWell, I wonder why JdGordon doesn't let others who have the target test such low level changes before commit... :(
08:19:08amiconnBut it looks like the fix is relatively simple
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08:31:20JdGordonamiconn: hmm... doh!
08:33:01JdGordonoh.. damn.. the sleep(HZ/4); in ata.c (which i was copying) is like 2 lines off the screen which is why it was missed
08:33:02amiconnFix committed....
08:33:19amiconnThe first while loop is quite unelegant, at least for use in ata_mmc
08:33:39JdGordonhow would you have rathered it?
08:33:48amiconnI changed the queue_wait into a queue_wait_w_tmo, and added the idle monitor to the default: case
08:34:01JdGordonI wanted to get that working at least semi-properly so the setting saving doesnt thrash the disk
08:34:03 Nick [sellout] is now known as Your_Mom (n=sellout@
08:34:14JdGordonok, thats a bit ncier
08:34:25 Nick Your_Mom is now known as A_Fat_Slob (n=sellout@
08:34:34amiconnThe monitor itself also isn't very elegant
08:34:35 Nick A_Fat_Slob is now known as [sellout] (n=sellout@
08:34:46amiconnIt may easily miss activity
08:35:09amiconnSince the timeout is that long it's not critical
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08:47:00*JdGordon fears he will have to start the menu recoding patch from the begginging to figure out its problems :'(
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08:49:35*amiconn wonders hwo the current idle monitor would behave on an 8MB-modded Ondio
08:50:02amiconnWith 8MB, a full rebuffer takes significantly longer than 10 seconds
08:50:23amiconn...because the MMC driver can only read ~350KByte/sec
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08:50:41JdGordonwell, the buffer reffilling isnt used, so its only the config saving which would effect anything
08:51:03 Nick myzar|away is now known as myzar (
08:51:26amiconnNo, but the buffer refilling is longer than the idle delay, and in combination with the fact that the idle monitor may miss activity...
08:52:05scorchespeaking of which, is anyone interested in some 8 meg RAM and some ROM chips while i have a contact to be able to get them and in case i have to buy a few extra?
08:53:55JdGordonamiconn: umm... maybe last_seen_mtx_unlock should be set to 0 as an else to the if (!ata_disk_is_active()) in ata_mmc
08:54:32JdGordonso that would mean that disk access shouldnt be missed
08:54:54JdGordonbut then 10s may be way too long
08:56:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:58:24amiconnIt would
08:58:56amiconnata_disk_is_active() can be active for really short periods on Ondio
08:59:16amiconnI have an idea how the monitoring won't miss activity
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09:12:20Nimdaeso the scrolling on the ipod is tied closely to the cpu clock speed...
09:22:29JdGordondoes nayone care that there is bassically no filename sanity checking in the fat driver? there is a fs bug report on this which i found and wondering if i should fix it
09:25:34 Join wehn [0] (
09:27:35Bagderwhat letters aren't allowed?
09:28:34JdGordonall alpha-numeric and $ % ' - _ @ ~ ` ! ( ) { } ^ # & <space> are allowed
09:29:00JdGordonit actually looks like only the directory renaming checks the filename
09:29:18JdGordonfs 5659
09:30:39BagderI can't find the spec that details this
09:31:05JdGordonpage 31 of that doc
09:32:08Bagderhehe, not on page 31 to me ;-)
09:32:15BagderWord (tm)
09:32:37JdGordonOO says page 31/36
09:32:41JdGordondinner... back in 20
09:32:55Bagdermy OO doc has 40 pages...
09:35:11Bagder+ , ; = [ ] are legal too
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09:37:46markunBagder: I would like to use a twiki feature (to combine cells from a row) but it needs a plugin
09:37:57markunCould you install it from me?
09:38:40BagderZagor and LinusN has done the wiki install/fiddling so far, I rather not mess with it
09:39:25markunok, I'll ask them
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09:43:55roolkumarkun: the table plugin is installed - I have used it for sorting by columns on the TagCache page
09:44:53markunWell, when I tried |^| to combine cells it didn't work. I'll try again.
09:46:07markunstill nothing. At least not in the preview.
09:47:13roolkuMarkun: I think you might need to enable it with the %TABLE{ }% directive first
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09:48:34roolkuMarkun: I had to add %TABLE{ sort="on"}% in front of the table to enable sorting, so there might be similar parameters for cellmerging
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09:50:23JdGordonBagder: so do we want to bother with the checks?
09:51:07markunroolku: thanks, that works
09:51:08PuGzhi there. excuse my ignorance on this matter, but i have just done a read only check out of rockbox from cvs and have applied a patch i want to test on my machine. how do i now build rockbox ;) ?
09:51:21PuGzi am in ubuntu linux 6.10
09:51:38BagderPuGz: install the compiler, run the configure script, type make
09:51:38PuGzand have build-essential... so i have the standard make, gcc etc
09:51:44PuGzwhich configure script?
09:51:48scorchePuGz: the wiki page SimpleGuideToCompiling covers this
09:51:59PuGzwas looking for something like that.
09:52:27roolkumarkun: good :)
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10:24:21amiconnJdGordon: With VFAT a lot more characters are allowed. VFAT stores unicode file names as UCS-2
10:24:37amiconnIt will be way easier to check which chars are not allowed
10:24:55JdGordonright, but dont most users use windows, and so it should conform to ms fat32?
10:25:08Bagderwhoa that's not fat
10:25:12Bagderthat's windows
10:25:22myzarthen what of the difference between 80 and 30 gig 5.5g ipod videos?
10:25:30JdGordonoh? i was under the impression it was fat.. ok ignore me
10:25:56BagderJdGordon: well sure, but windows might impose further restrictions that aren't strictly FAT restrictions
10:25:56myzarthe hardware is the same
10:26:03myzaronly the drives differ
10:30:30linuxstb_myzar: I don't think anyone knows the reason, but the Rockbox ATA driver doesn't appear to work on the 80GB.
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10:33:41myzarprogress requires constant diligence and a coordinated effort towards WORKING TOWARD A SOLUTION
10:33:50myzari say we rally together and figure it out!
10:34:02*Nimdae contributes his ignorance
10:35:00*scorche checks to see if petur is here
10:35:06myzarNimdae you negative nancy
10:35:09myzarwe don't need ignorance here
10:35:16scorcheseeing that he is, i will contribute a few mahna mahnas
10:35:17Nimdaei'll leave then :(
10:35:18myzarwe need more positive pollys, like scorche!
10:35:29myzarhe's the perfect example of a contributer to our cause
10:35:34scorchei am?
10:35:38myzaryou are now
10:35:50myzari'm using the same sales pitch as the army, scorche
10:35:54myzarjust play along
10:35:59myzarwe'll get some new boys to iraq in no time
10:36:09Nimdaei think i will make a series of themes based on my latest creation
10:36:11 Join Arathis [0] (
10:36:35myzarand when you're done, help me debug the new 80gig ipod
10:36:38myzarand we'll be set ;p
10:36:47Nimdaei don't have a 80gb ipod
10:36:51myzari think i'm one of the few that has one
10:36:52Nimdaei just have a 30gb ipod
10:36:55Nimdae5g, not 5.5g
10:36:56myzarbut i have no idea how to contribute with it
10:37:29Nimdaehas anyone compared the internals of the 5g with the 5.5g?
10:37:36scorchedonate it to someone who does ;)
10:37:48scorcheNimdae: yes
10:38:11myzari'm not made of money, scorche
10:38:11Nimdaeis there a new ata controller, or just software changes?
10:38:19myzarjust determination to see it DONE!
10:39:09linuxstb_The ATA controller is internal to the PortalPlayer chip, so that shouldn't be any different.
10:39:10amiconnJdGordon: Microsoft defined the VFAT standard...
10:39:27*scorche erases his much longer explanation
10:39:49amiconnWindows doesn't impose any restrictions not defined in the fat standard
10:40:10amiconnI only know one more restriction, but that's due to explorer, not the windows kernel
10:40:48amiconnExplorer doesn't allow to create filenames starting with a period. But it can handle them when they're there
10:41:49Nimdaeit treats the text past the . as an extension, so it assumes there's no file name
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10:42:04myzarand it has no literal code
10:42:04amiconnyes, that's what it says
10:42:15myzarso you can't do ././ext
10:42:19amiconnBut you can create such files from the commandline
10:42:23myzaror .'.'ext
10:42:34myzardepending on which literal you use
10:42:43myzarbu then again who would need it
10:42:51amiconn...and once they're there, explorer handles them fine as long as you don't try a rename
10:42:56Nimdaelooks like it's just an explorer limitation
10:42:59myzarit is.
10:43:03Nimdaei did a rename just fine in cmd.exe
10:43:10myzarbut that has mostly nothing to do with rockbox
10:43:24myzarso what can be the difference between 30 and 80?
10:43:38amiconnJdGordon: The fat specs name all characters which are forbidden. The fat specs are in the wiki
10:44:00myzarPerpendicular recording.
10:44:04myzarCould that be something?
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10:44:14myzarprobably not on its own
10:44:21myzarbut with such a large disk
10:44:33myzardo the number of sectors (any) differ between 30 and 80?
10:44:50myzarcould they have tried to use more of the ATA standard with the 80?
10:44:51Nimdaeif it were with ata specs, changes in the drive shouldn't affect access to the drive
10:45:14myzarATA 1
10:45:17myzarATA 2-6?
10:45:21myzarATA7 even?
10:45:39myzardoes anyone know anything about that?
10:46:00Nimdaei think i saw a reference somewhere they are ata5
10:46:07myzarfrom what i recall, the number for ATA is one underneath which UDMA it is
10:46:11myzarso if it's 5, it's UDMA4
10:46:28myzarthat's 66mhz
10:46:51amiconnThe number tells the version of the ata protocol
10:47:00amiconn...which has nothing to do with the transfer mode
10:47:05myzarof coarse not
10:47:14myzarbut if the ATA code in rockbox was, say, unupdated
10:47:22amiconnThat's a common misunderstanding
10:47:29amiconn...also regarding USB
10:47:33myzarthen explain to me the vast number of ATA problems
10:47:38myzarin the 5.5 30 gig patches
10:47:46myzarthe problems fixed in said patches
10:47:53amiconnPeople tend to use USB2.0 as a synonym for high speed mode, but that's wrong
10:47:53linuxstb_It would be interesting to know if IPL works with the 80GB model. I know their developers are working on 5.5g support, but I don't know if any of them have an 80GB.
10:48:04myzara developer from IPL mentioned it
10:48:07myzarin the thread
10:48:14myzardunno if it was a real reply
10:48:46Nimdaecould it simply be disk configuration?
10:48:53linuxstb_But he didn't mention which 5.5g though IIRC.
10:49:07myzari would assume both
10:49:13myzarsince 80 has all the problems and NO progress has been made
10:49:18Nimdaedoes the ata driver work on the 30gb 5.5g?
10:49:24myzarit does, but not without problems
10:49:28myzarpeople have all sorts of reports
10:49:42linuxstb_The ATA driver seems to work - it's the FAT driver which needs changing for the 5.5gs.
10:49:44myzarit plays fine one day, then after a few days it stops playing
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10:49:54myzarthen even after reinstallation
10:49:56myzarit still wont play
10:50:00myzarwhich makes me agree with linuxstb_
10:50:05myzarthat it is indeed FAT and not ATA
10:50:30linuxstb_I wouldn't expect the ATA driver to work one day, and not the next. But the FAT driver could easily cause corruptions.
10:50:37myzarthat's what i'm saying
10:51:10Nimdaewhat's the model of the drive used in the 80gb?
10:51:15myzari believe
10:51:29Nimdaeit's not listed on toshiba's site
10:51:43Nimdae8009 and 8007 are
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10:51:49myzaryes, i know.
10:51:58myzarperhaps an OEM model
10:52:01myzarby apple?
10:52:32Nimdaethe difference between the 8007 and 8009 appear to be the connector
10:52:41Nimdaeso perhaps the 8010 is just a different connector
10:52:41myzarbut you are comparing 07 and 09
10:52:47myzarhmm, i don't think so
10:52:54myzarwhich connector are you referring to?
10:52:55obowikispam user
10:53:22myzarthat wouldn't warrent FAT corruption
10:53:46Nimdaethe 8009 lists "Zero Insertion Force (ZIF) connector" whereas the 8007 doesn't
10:53:55Kasperlefrom :
10:54:03KasperleYou may receive an 80GB unbranded Toshiba drive: MK8009GAH (HDD1764 A ZL01) which works for All iPod Video units. The 8009 series is the same drive without the apple logo. Functionality remains the same for both drives.
10:54:14Nimdaeyeah, but if all that differs are things like that, then you might be able to use those docs as ar eference
10:55:47myzarall that means is that its easier to plug it in
10:56:06Nimdaeif the differences are small like that
10:56:13Nimdaethen the rest may be fundamentally the same ;)
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10:56:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:56:29myzarwe already know the differences are small like that
10:56:34myzarand functionality is fundamentally the same
10:56:38myzarit's in the details, my boy
10:57:05Nimdaei wish i had $350 to get a 80gb ipod
10:57:09myzarby knowing exactly what it is and debugging that, we can figure out a solution
10:57:13myzareven if you had one, what could you do?
10:57:23myzaralone, i mean,.
10:57:26Nimdaetake it apart and put it back together repeatedly, probably
10:57:35myzarwould the repitition change anything? :P
10:57:38myzari have one
10:57:41Nimdaethat's what i do with my 30gb ipod :P
10:57:49Nimdaeno particular reason
10:57:58Nimdaei just like taking things apart :P
10:58:01myzari doubt any info i'd tell you would change anything we know
10:58:22Nimdaei've been hoping i could find a higher capacity 1.8" 5mm drive
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10:59:36Kasperlehas anyone with the necessary skills even tried to install rockbox or ipl on the 80gb 5.5g?
11:00:08Nimdaelooks like i was wrong, it's ata6
11:00:38Nimdaeooo toshiba makes a 40gb drive that would fit in the 30gb ipod case
11:01:22 Quit ender` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:02:53myzarpeople have tried doing it the same way as the 30 gigd
11:02:58myzarit didnt quite work
11:05:14 Quit Mmmm (Remote closed the connection)
11:06:54Kasperlei meant someone who knows how to patch and compile a new bootloader and rockbox, and who at least understand the basic concepts of what's happening
11:07:14Nimdaecould it be as simple as drive geometry?
11:07:16myzarthat would require some developers having said 80gig ipod
11:07:19Kasperlei see a lot of whining from people who use obscure windows tools to patch their ipods.
11:07:30myzarno, code doesn't take into account sizes
11:07:38myzarand even having the 80g ipod
11:07:40Kasperlemyzar: exactly. I'm just wondering whether there are any
11:07:46myzarpeople would need to gather together
11:07:50myzarnot one person (me)
11:08:03myzarto understand differences and ways to fix it in rockbox
11:08:12myzarand eventually make a patch or recompile
11:08:22myzarcheck the new ports forum
11:08:27myzarall the people who care have posted
11:08:40myzarthe rest are lurking and not posting
11:09:05Kasperleyeah, but a lot of those seem not too technically apt. the ones who are seem to mostly have the 30gb version
11:09:59myzaryou need to understand that this isn't a team of dedicated coders like on a sourceforge project
11:10:14myzarit's disorganized, chaotic, and unpredictable
11:10:29myzarand truth be told, any user can be a developer or submit bug reports
11:10:38myzarthat's the essence of open source, and why it's better
11:10:41Kasperlemyzar: all i'm asking is whether someone who knows what's happening has even confirmed that there are issues with the 80gb ipod
11:10:52myzarbecause none of the devs have an 80 gig ipod
11:10:56myzarwe're in a bit of a jam here
11:11:08myzari don't recall any reply from anyone
11:11:14myzarwith any confirmed facts
11:11:15scorcherockbox is on sourceforge...
11:11:22 Join tipi^ [0] (
11:11:23myzaryou misunderstand my point
11:11:41myzari'm referring to most projects on SF as being mostly organized with a team of coders
11:11:48myzarhere, it's a different story
11:11:56myzarand then again, most projects don't involve specific hardware
11:12:02myzarso anyone can hop in and code
11:12:52 Join rasher [0] (
11:13:56*scorche wasnt really following the conversation anyway
11:15:06Nimdaewell, if i happen to win a lot of money in like a lottery or other gambling, i won't forget the rockbox group ;)
11:15:31Nimdaei'd go straight to the car lot and get me a brand new car, and wish they would hurry up and get rockbox on the 80gb ipod
11:15:39blue_lizardwhile of course everyone could be a developer
11:16:20Nimdaeanyway, i'm off to bed
11:16:22blue_lizarda lot of people find it more plesing to wine 5h around in an forum instead on concetrate and work on a problem lige their 80Gig ipos problem
11:16:51Nimdaei wish i could contribute more, but i have no clue about hardware
11:16:53blue_lizardthey are simply not really interested in solving such problems
11:17:24Nimdaeand i can't afford to donate the hardware
11:17:25blue_lizardthey enjoy watching porn more
11:17:38Nimdaei enjoy watching porn
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11:17:51Nimdaeespecially more than coding
11:18:05blue_lizardmy sarcasm has once again not been understood
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11:18:12blue_lizardmaybe my english is to bad
11:18:22Nimdaeblue_lizard: don't worry, i like turning things around on people ;)
11:19:09myzarthen how did other projects get worked on
11:19:12myzarexplain this to me
11:19:18blue_lizardunfortunately it seem so that the people having the money fos such toys dont donate and dont contribute at all
11:19:18myzarany other build has gotten SOME progress
11:19:22myzarand half the whining
11:19:26scorcheoh boy...:
11:19:29myzari don't understand it
11:19:32myzarthis is an IPOD
11:19:40myzara freaking ipod, the most popular mp3 player in the world
11:19:46rasherBecause the people who buy ipods are generally clueless
11:19:50myzarwe get NO progress and MORE whining
11:19:57myzarthat's stereotyping, rasher my boy
11:19:58Nimdaescorche: i feel your pain
11:20:06rashermyzar: so what, it's true
11:20:11myzarare you saying people who buy OTHER mp3 players are actually non-clueless?
11:20:20rasherscorche: wow
11:20:23myzarpeople that buy ipods are newbies while people that buy other players are not?
11:20:30rasherYes. Yes I am.
11:20:36rasherAt least, percentage-wise.
11:20:39blue_lizardyou misunderstood me but its ok
11:21:06rasherIs this a hard concept to grasp?
11:21:08scorchemyzar: he speaks the truth...ipods are status symbols and a way of looking hip
11:21:12myzarof COARSE since the majority of people that buy apple products are clueless dolts
11:21:17myzarwho want to look hip, as you say
11:21:18blue_lizardmyzar: are you an linux user?
11:21:20myzaronly because it's the MAJORITY
11:21:25myzaryes, yes i am
11:21:28scorchebefore them, most people didnt know what the hell an mp3 was
11:21:42Nimdaei got my ipod because it didn't cost me $250
11:21:46blue_lizardthen join the beryl irc channel and take a look at the people
11:21:52Nimdaeand it was better than my other mp3 player
11:21:55myzarbut it's stereotyping like that which gets us off coarse
11:22:00Nimdaeand i wanted to use rockbox
11:22:01Kasperlei got mine because it cost me only 6 souls :P
11:22:07blue_lizardthe bigest idiots have the bigest grafickards
11:22:10*linuxstb_ likes Apple hardware, but hates Apple software...
11:22:11blue_lizardnot the devs
11:22:22myzarbut then why do people work harder on lesser known projects
11:22:26myzarand see to it that it gets progress
11:22:49scorchebecause they want to see it done and have the capability to do so?
11:22:55rasherThe problem is that few people with a clue have a 5.5G
11:22:57blue_lizardnot only
11:22:58myzarbut we are talking potential
11:23:02rashermyzar: stop whining please.
11:23:09blue_lizardbecause they have interrest in the problem
11:23:09rasherYes, whining.
11:23:19myzaryou clearly are a clueless idiot if you think i'm whining
11:23:20rasherYou're acting like a spoiled child who's not getting what he wants.
11:23:31blue_lizardand feel themself comfortable in solving the problem
11:23:36myzari'm acting like someone who wants to get a team going and see to it that this gets solved
11:23:42scorchemyzar: i think you are as i a clueless idiot? =)
11:23:47rasherSo go do the work instead of complaining here.
11:24:05myzarnow i don't really think i want to do the work
11:24:18myzarit's nice remarks like this that make me wonder why i even do anything for anyone online anymore
11:24:24bluebrotherhmm. The h100 hardware can only do up to 44.1kHz, can it?
11:24:26scorcheand like i wont happen unless someone with the motivation, the unit itself, and the capability to do it comes forward
11:24:28myzarMAC, Linux, or even for the rockbox community
11:24:30Nimdaemyzar: set up a paypal account and have people donate to it, use the money to get a 80gb ipod or two, and then send them to devs
11:24:58myzarit looks like it was all my stupid mistake, i guess
11:25:00rashermyzar: Jesus. You're acting like someone owes to you to make Rockbox work on the 5.5G, and you say WE have the wrong attitude?
11:25:24myzari said nothing, i was merely questioning something occuring on the forums
11:25:30myzarnot once did i mention you or anyone in here
11:25:45Nimdaein fact, if i get approval from Bagder, i'll do the paypal thing
11:25:49Nimdaegather various players, etc
11:26:05myzaryou should really read what i say before making yourself look like you didn't even read what i said, rasher
11:26:09linuxstb_myzar: It's a sad fact that almost no ipod owners contribute development time to Rockbox. Almost all of the ipod code in Rockbox is written by existing Rockbox developers who bought ipods.
11:26:19scorchemyzar: you asked how other projects get worked on...i gave you the 3 keys that need to be there...there is nothing else to it really
11:26:26myzarand this i agree with, linuxstb_
11:26:40rashermyzar: "then how did other projects get worked on"
11:26:57rasherThat's what I reacted on.
11:26:59myzari understood, scorche
11:27:10myzaryou overreacted a bit there, rasher
11:27:21myzari'm merely thinking how the largest mp3 player gets the least attention
11:27:27scorchewell, his handle *is* rasher ;)
11:27:38Nimdaewell here's the issue, people in the know contribute to the work being done, and the masses aren't in te know, so obviously a community of people won't all be contributing to the work all at once
11:27:48blue_lizardother projects also dont solve problems overnight
11:27:54myzarbut it hasn't been overnight
11:28:05blue_lizardas an example the openwrt project
11:28:12myzarother projects have shown progress over time
11:28:17myzarthis one doesn't seem to be moving anywhere
11:28:22myzarand that's what i'm questioning
11:28:27Bagdermyzar: and now you whine
11:28:29blue_lizardits easy to ruin and wrt device but it costs only 60EUR in germany
11:28:30Nimdaeat least the openwrt project had the benefit of an existing opensource OS to work with
11:28:31myzarno, Bagder
11:28:41myzarand now, i think of the reason why and try to help correct it
11:28:41BagderI've seen progress
11:28:45blue_lizardbut an ipod costs a lot more
11:28:48myzarthat's all i want to do
11:28:53scorcheNimdae: not with the version 5s
11:28:54peturmyzar: go ask apple and portalplayer some doc about their components
11:28:59myzarif i was to whine, i'd go on the forums and whine with everyone else
11:29:09Bagderthe only way to get progress done is to dig in yourself
11:29:22Bagderthat's open source
11:29:26myzarpetur, but if the problem involves FAT, wouldn't i have to go to toshiba and ask them?
11:29:40Bagderor pay someone else to do it
11:29:42Nimdaescorche: actually, if i remember correctly, linksys changed the bootloader and os on the 5s, so it's still not that hard to work with...but i'm out of touch with the wrt community, and i have a 2.2
11:29:55Kasperletoshiba has no control about what filesystem people write to their drives
11:30:05myzarof coarse they don't
11:30:06markunmyzar: are confusing FAT and ATA?
11:30:19 Quit petur ("worrrk")
11:30:25myzarone of the only differences between 30 and 80 ipods is the drive
11:30:34Nimdaemyzar: i have a question for you
11:30:36myzarfrom what people have confirmed
11:30:42myzarwhat is it, Nimdae
11:30:55Nimdaehave you donated anything other than written contribution to the rockbox project? such as cpu time, money, or a device?
11:30:59Kasperlemy questions still stands: has someone with a clue actually confirmed there being issues with the 80gb model? ;)
11:31:22myzari'm afraid i have not, and i thought it might be a good idea to help how i can
11:31:33Nimdaeconsider doing one of those
11:31:38Nimdaeas of now, you have free software
11:31:38scorchemyzar: tbh, this is not that way
11:31:39markunmyzar: great, welcome aboard
11:31:41linuxstb_Kasperle: Someone posted a detailed message to the mailing list stating exactly where the Rockbox ATA driver failed. But he didn't know how to fix it.
11:31:42Nimdaedeal with it ;)
11:31:49myzari got what i wanted
11:31:57myzarto get people actually active in here and interested in the project
11:32:05Nimdaefree software has no guarantees to actually...function
11:32:16myzarno, but if nothing is done, no progress will be made
11:32:18Nimdaeand you have no guarantee that you will be heard
11:32:29myzarat least i attempted to gather together SOME people
11:32:35scorchemyzar: do you understand how hard it is to develop for a target that you dont have in front of you?
11:32:39linuxstb_myzar: Rockbox is a huge project, supporting about 20 different MP3 players. A small part of it is the ipods, and an even smaller part of that is the 5.5g...
11:32:41myzaryes, scorche
11:32:44Nimdaemyzar: actually, i have to agree, you sound like you're whining
11:32:46myzaryes, LinusN
11:32:49myzarno, Nimdae
11:33:05rasherYou keep saying no, yet everyone seems to agree.
11:33:06myzarwhat i mean to do is find people that CAN contribute to the project here
11:33:08myzari DO have an 80
11:33:12rasherSo that's one.
11:33:13myzarthat's what i've been TRYING to do
11:33:28 Quit My_Sic ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
11:33:31Nimdaeok, put in some code, or send it to someone who can
11:33:35rasherShow of hands, who here has an ipod 5.5G 80gb?
11:33:54markunnot many hands..
11:34:05rashermyzar: these are your potential allies in #rockbox..
11:34:14myzarwell, i'm happy to say i at least tried
11:34:19Nimdaemyzar: btw, yes i have contributed even if not with code, hardware, or money: <−− is mine ;)
11:34:20myzarto get some "potential allies"
11:34:29markunmyzar: maybe you can ask in one of the ipod forums (like ipodwizzard) for help
11:34:35scorchei think "allies" might be the wrong word...
11:34:39myzara good idea, markun
11:34:50myzarbut it seems i'm getting criticism here, as well as some rude remarks
11:35:01markunmyzar: just ignore them :)
11:35:03myzarwhich makes me wonder why i even devote time to something like this if the people are going to be arrogant jerks
11:35:23scorcheNimdae: nice link ;)
11:35:24rasherBecause you came with an attitude of "why on earth is nothing happening here, it's not fair!"
11:35:37myzarmy attitude is my own concern
11:35:38Nimdaescorche: -_-
11:35:40myzarand how you interpret it is your own
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11:35:43myzari can at least say i attempted to do something
11:35:47myzari don't see you doing the same
11:35:48markunhi HCl
11:35:49Nimdaestupid copy/paste doesnt'w ork well over synergy
11:35:51rasherBut your attitude is what gets you those remarks and criticism.
11:36:05rashermyzar: I don't care about the ipod 5.5G 80gb
11:36:08myzarmy attitude being misinterpreted is your fault and yours alone
11:36:12myzarand what you care about is also yours alone
11:36:18markunmyzar: ok
11:36:32Nimdaemyzar: you went on a rant about how much your device is being neglected, when it is not
11:36:43rashermyzar: I'm simply trying to explain what you did to attract those rude remarks. If you're not going to accept that, you shouldn't be complaining in the first place.
11:36:47myzarNimdae, i was merely stating what i saw in the forums compared to other projects
11:36:51Nimdaethat's the link i intended
11:36:54myzarit was not meant to be complaints or a rant
11:37:05Nimdaeintention and action are different things
11:37:17myzarbut how you interpret the two are your own buisiness
11:37:19scorche−−−−−−−−−−alright...that is enough...there isnt anything to be gained by continuing this conversation−−−−−−−−−−
11:37:27myzaryes, you are correct, scorche
11:37:29Kasperlelinuxstb_: is this the post you're referring to?
11:37:31Nimdaei can kill a man while intended to save his life, i still killed him
11:38:08rasherKasperle: yup
11:38:09Nimdaeanyway, i was going to bed, so nite ;)
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11:38:38rasherAt least, that's the only mail of its kind I remember.
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11:51:14blue_lizardi love forums
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11:51:30blue_lizardone person makes a patch (200) lines
11:51:48blue_lizardand 30 persons write at least 500 lines about how it should work
11:52:27blue_lizardobviously the thing ends up with the patch not applied and the dev bored
11:52:58Bagderposting a patch in the forum is a waste in the first place
11:53:27Bagderbut yes, it sometimes is a bit of a problem that people get bored and get lost before their patches are properly dealt with
11:53:36Bagderbut hey, what can we do
11:54:14blue_lizardof course nothing can be done
11:54:29blue_lizardone cannot change the behaviour of the people
11:54:34LinusNand that mostly happens because a) the patch is not interesting, or b) the patch is a badly written hack, or c) it only works on one platform etc etc
11:54:54LinusNand the dev is not interested in working to make the patch committable
11:55:24rasherBagder: About my simulator patch of last night (, what is a reasonable buffer size for storing a unix/windows path (+the rockbox path)? I have a feeling MAX_PATH is not going to cut it.
12:00:08rasherNor is 2*MAX_PATH
12:01:26LinusNwell, a FAT32 path is max 260 characters
12:01:35Bagderyes, but the sim is not limited to that
12:02:12rasherI guess I could artificially limit the rootdir to MAX_PATH
12:02:24rasherIt's not like many people use paths larger than 260 characters
12:02:35rasherand even if they do, it'd be fairly easy to enlarge the buffer
12:02:42Bagderno, I won't mind setting a limit somewhere and just ask people to cut the path otherwise
12:02:51rasherI'll just do that
12:03:03rasherAnd change all the buffersizes in io.c to 2*MAX_PATH
12:03:15LinusNit's not like we need to conserve memory in the sim
12:03:36rasherI suppose there's no problem in using 4*MAX_PATH
12:04:02rasherThe internal functions still work like on target, it's just the lower-level that needs to work with the extra-large path
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12:10:46rasherOr.. what. I'm having a hard time figuring out if the functions in common/io.c are called by the regular filesystem code, or called directly
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12:29:40My_SicSlasheri: have you look on my file ?
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12:30:48webguest30markun: hey font man! How about including nimbus 19 into the font pack? I downloaded it from the patch and use it to my great pleasure.
12:31:42markunwebguest30: hi there. Forgot all about fonts :) I'll have a look later.
12:32:19markunMy role as Gigabeat man is keeping me occupied :)
12:32:49webguest30 markun: me OK. I use it anyway, just wanted to share my experience with others.
12:34:02JdGordondoes anyone know a bigger source for karaoke files than evillyics?
12:34:06JdGordonevil lyrics*
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12:53:10*JdGordon is sceming his next crazy adventure in the code....
12:53:47rasherDon't you have a lot of unfinished projects? Not to tell you what to do, just wondering
12:53:51linuxstbmyzar: If you want to get the 80GB 5.5g working, I would suggest contacting the IPL people and finding out if they are having a similar problem accessing the disk on the 80GB. If they do have the problem, you could work with them to try and find the answer, if not, then you can compare the Rockbox and IPL ATA drivers and try to find out why Rockbox chokes.
12:54:18linuxstbSimply because there are IPL devs who own 5.5gs, and no Rockbox devs who do...
12:54:20rasherWouldn't ipl be using (uc)linux ata code?
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12:54:42rasherI would imagine that's somewhat more advanced than Rockbox ata code
12:54:43linuxstbBut with some hardware init specific to the ipod.
12:54:50rasherAh, okay
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12:56:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:56:34LinusNJdGordon: lost interest in the menu patch?
12:56:47JdGordonLinusN: no, im pissed off with it tho
12:57:16JdGordoni resynced it this morning and the boost problem is still there.. and now its refusing to load a theme which it didnt have a problem with last week :'(
12:58:41JdGordonalso, I need to either add a thread for the settings, or figure out a better way to save because using the ata_idle it stkOv's the ata thread..
13:02:04*rasher looks at ReleaseTodo and notes that most tasks are actually fairly close to done at this point
13:02:34rasherRemote and voice support have come a long way since then
13:03:37*scorche hasnt heard the word "release" in months
13:04:14rasherI suggest Rockbox starts releasing every 2 months.
13:04:18*rasher ducks and runs
13:04:27JdGordonhaha.. you make funny
13:05:56JdGordonRemote support for iRiver, <- thats not 100%?
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13:06:38rasherOr at least 95%
13:06:54rasherBut yeah, I'd say Done
13:07:08rasherAnd voice is.. fairly close
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13:08:07JdGordondoes anyone have any idea where to start debugging this very odd problem? playing audio seems to keep boosting-unboosting and according to the os debug screen the codec keeps getting run for a very short time before going back to main..?
13:08:09rasherIn fact, with a short bug-squashing period, (and a manual sprint), Mayday release goals could be met right now
13:08:39rasherAs far as I can tell anyway
13:08:54 Quit My_Sic (Remote closed the connection)
13:09:00scorcheheh...short bug-squashing period
13:09:17JdGordonno, because new reocrding patch probably has bugs which need to be ironed out first
13:09:25rasherRight, forgot about that
13:09:26JdGordonand swcodec still has problems doesnt it?
13:09:28peturwell I think most issues that prevented 3.0 are gone, no?
13:09:40scorchei would say so
13:10:03*petur hasn't had any playback issues lately
13:10:21 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
13:10:28*JdGordon doesnt actually see the point of diong an actual release
13:10:35rasherMy playback pattern usually involves building a playlist (often just playing a folder), and pressing play
13:10:41rasherSo I've no idea
13:10:42JdGordona release would just be a daily anyway
13:10:48scorchewell, AAC will need to be cleaned up as well, correct?
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13:11:04peturJdGordon: a tested stable build for users who don't want to beta test
13:11:18rasherI'd say AAC can be released as "sortof working"
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13:11:35*petur wished his stable recording build wasn't on the disk that crashed
13:11:39bluebrothershouldn't we wait for the next mayday for the release? ;-)
13:11:56JdGordonnot if it means another 3 months feature freeze :'(
13:12:10rasherI don't think anyone wants to repeat that
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13:12:44JdGordonso, why not call the daily at the end of this week a testing release build?
13:12:59*bluebrother would like to see that settings-in-menu stuff again.
13:13:03amiconnJdGordon: If the ata thread stovs because of the settings save, there are 2 options. (1) make the ata stack larger (2) check why settings save needs so much stack, and cut it down
13:13:05JdGordonthen rename it to release att he end of next week if nothing major is fixed?
13:13:41rasherJdGordon: recording
13:13:47amiconnThe code is far from release quality atm, imho
13:13:56rasherI'd say recording needs to be re-fixed at the very least
13:14:02JdGordonamiconn: yeah, setting saving is unfortunatly slightly messy now, maybe it would be nice to double the ata thread anyway to give more room and less need for async callbacks?
13:14:43amiconnI'd prefer removing the messiness instead
13:15:01amiconnGot my comment regarding code quality?
13:15:34JdGordonits actually pretty neat, the messyness comes in because of how the settings are stored.. and yes
13:15:56JdGordoncode quality isnt important imho... it works as expected which is the big thing
13:16:15*amiconn disagrees
13:16:25*bluebrother raises his hand for code quality
13:16:35JdGordonthe average joe doesnt care about the code being pretty...
13:16:40JdGordonas long as it works
13:16:45Bagderwithout code quality, things won't work fine
13:16:52bluebrotherbut it gets unmaintainable
13:17:20*petur raises his code quality hand too
13:17:23bluebrotherI was working on code styled like that some time ago. It was awful. Not even a consistent indent style :(
13:18:05amiconnThe style is one problem, but not the only one
13:18:09rasherWhy doesn't AAC resample?
13:18:34amiconnCode can be working as expected, be well indented, and still a mess
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13:19:51*bluebrother agrees.
13:19:54JdGordonyes, but if it works, AND releasing is "important" then imho its good enough, provided that there is at least a reminder it needs cleaning up
13:20:19bluebrotherreleasing is never important for open source projects IMO :)
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13:21:48rasherNot extremely important, but I still believe a lot of people would like a release now and then
13:22:17bluebrotherwe could do something like release candidates from time to time.
13:22:22bluebrotheras that wouldn
13:22:28bluebrother't imply a feature freeze
13:22:38JdGordondoesnt it?
13:22:39bluebrotherdamn, hit the wrong key :o
13:22:42markunamiconn: is anyone working on the ipod 3g?
13:22:44peturit would, unless you branched
13:22:47rasherRelease candidates should be eligible for release
13:22:54rasherUnless major bugs are found
13:23:05linuxstbmarkun: I think dan_a is the only person with a 3g.
13:23:07rasherI think you're using the Microsoft definition of release candidate
13:23:16scorchemarkun: dan_a was, but he is working on sansa atm
13:23:38markunI want to put some code back that got lost during the target tree switch
13:23:46peturfeature freezes are a way to force devs to fix bugs iso add new stuff - just making RC's wouldn't
13:23:56bluebrotherhehe ... MS even releases beta software as final.
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13:24:28*petur wouldn't even call it beta
13:24:59bluebrotherIMO a RC doesn't forbid new features at all but just is a bit of "concentrate on bugs and let the new feature wait"
13:25:29rasherbluebrother: Why would you call it "release candidate" then
13:25:54wogglesim considering getting a 750mAh replacement battery for my ipod mini(up from 400mAh), do u guys reckon its worth it? what do u think my new battery life will be like?
13:26:01rasherI believe the Mozilla way is "correct"
13:26:14rasherDo an RC, and if no bugs come up, rename to final and release
13:26:15scorchemarkun: i believe barrywardell did the ipod move
13:26:32rasher(Last Firefox 2 RC == Firefox 2)
13:26:43bluebrotherrasher: mozilla also removed the places system, afaik between some RCs.
13:27:02JdGordonyou can remove features in RC, not add...
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13:28:04scorcheLinusN: forum search function is fubared again =/
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13:29:44rasherAnyway, RCs are probably better suited for quicker moving projects
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13:29:52rasherOr larger.
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13:32:00rasherI just updated the ReleaseTodo, please edit if you disagree (
13:32:28kumpelblasehi / tach
13:33:28peturrasher: I get this: Unmatched ) in regex; marked by <−− HERE in m//Main/ReleaseTodo) <−− HERE $/ at (eval 16) line 7.
13:33:43bluebrotherpetur: remote the ) from the link ;-)
13:33:55*petur slaps forehead
13:34:03bluebrotherthe webclient doens't do this right
13:34:12bluebrotherI had it too
13:34:18*petur slaps webclient too
13:34:33*bluebrother wishes a real irc client here
13:34:35rasherNice error though by twiki
13:34:35scorcheso violent...
13:34:58peturyes, I do it for the stats :)
13:35:09 Part kumpelblase ("Verlassend")
13:35:10scorcheand i get attacked =(
13:35:33 Quit daurn (Remote closed the connection)
13:35:36*petur wonders is scorche is his forehead or a webclient
13:35:37 Quit woggles ("Leaving")
13:35:48markunbluebrother: do you use linux?
13:36:34bluebrothermarkun: yes, but I'm currently on wxp
13:37:06markunbluebrother: you could put on a linux server and run irssi from a webbrowser.. :)
13:37:44rasherOr use that java ssh deal
13:38:16bluebrotherwow, that is really nice.
13:39:19bluebrotherI have a linux box I can access right now but as that box was simply standing around for 2+ years its horribly outdated (and doesn't have irssi right now)
13:39:25rasherOf course, you could just run putty
13:40:02oboBagder: LinusN: wikispam - user GeorgeSimenon
13:40:32peturwow, a writer in the wiki ;)
13:46:00Kasperlesome ssh client + screen + irssi == win
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14:00:00 Quit EspeonEefi (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
14:01:17 Join daurn [0] (n=quae@
14:01:52rasherEven more interesting:">
14:02:01rasherA python rockbox installer for Ipod
14:02:57 Quit obo ("bye")
14:04:25linuxstbThat's another thing - whenever ipod users do occasionally do something Rockbox related, they do it independently...
14:04:59rasherIt's strange
14:05:02linuxstbSee also the "Rockbox on macpod" thread in the forums.
14:05:14linuxstbStrange people these ipod users... :)
14:05:15rasherThis guy is an ubuntu developer, I wonder why he didn't come here
14:05:31rasherIt's not like he doesn't understand OSS
14:05:55peturmaybe he did, but we don't know his nick
14:06:26rasher(on a wild guess, whois confirms)
14:06:57 Join Criamos [0] (
14:07:37linuxstbpetur: Maybe, but I can't recall anyone mentioning a python installer.
14:08:01rasherNope, he was never here
14:08:10rasherOr if he was, he was incognito
14:08:17rasherWhich seems silly
14:09:02rasherNext question is of course, do we want a python installer?
14:09:37linuxstbI don't know, but we definitely want some kind of ipod installer.
14:09:55rasherIf it's written well, it could be used as the basis of a python-wx installer (which would be huge, but cross platform)
14:10:11rasher(huge for the windows version, that is)
14:10:28linuxstbIdeally, we would extend Cassandra's wx-based installer, but I haven't seen her around for months.
14:10:59bluebrotherdoes wxwidgets run on os x?
14:11:10 Quit petur ("worrrk")
14:11:26linuxstbAlthough when I tried it about 18 months ago, it was still a little flakey. But hopefully it's stable now.
14:12:08rasherlinuxstb: Agreed. It'd be nice to extend it with firmware-patching for irivers, bootloader-installing for ipods, etc.
14:12:22linuxstbIt should be able to do all sort of neat things like build tagcache, download and install daily/cvs builds, plus what you just said...
14:12:52bluebrotherI had a quick look in the qt4 installer2 of ipl some time ago. Still missing the time to get known of qt
14:13:22rasherI wonder if it'd help any if I wrote a wiki page detailing what it needs to include
14:14:17linuxstbI think we need to decide if we are going to wait for our mythical do-everything installer, or accept one of the unofficial installers into the project.
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14:14:42linuxstbThe ipodwizard installer seems a good candidate (but it's windows only, so I've never tried it).
14:15:10bluebrotherinstaller2 is qt4, so it runs on linux (tried, but I don't have a device)
14:15:11rasherIf a windows only installer is accepted, it'd probably be reasonable to adopt something like the python installer
14:15:57linuxstbIt could be useful for someone to test the various installers and document them in a wiki page.
14:16:23rasherIf only I had an ipod..
14:16:34rasherSomeone buy me a nano so I can test intallers.
14:16:39linuxstbIf only I had windows...
14:17:56bluebrotherI'd like to have an updater that gets also installed on the device and can pull new builds from the web.
14:18:10linuxstbI think that was Cassandra's intention.
14:18:14rasherThe rockbox tools can be run from the device, yes
14:18:29rasherWait, Utility.
14:18:35rasherDid she ever release any source?
14:19:04linuxstbThe ipod installation tools probably can't - I think you need to unmount before accessing the raw disk device.
14:19:36rasherYeah, but updating is no problem
14:19:41linuxstbNo, no source from Cassandra.
14:20:12 Quit wehn ()
14:20:25rasherWhat's a good title for a page about installers/updaters? RockboxTools?
14:20:49linuxstbIs RockboxInstaller taken?
14:21:10rasherNo, but I was thinking about stuff like update/tagcache etc.
14:21:34rasher(planning to have a "dream tool" listed along with the real ones)
14:22:36amiconnWhat about the old installer?
14:23:05amiconnThe Innosetup based one
14:23:27rasherI don't know why that was abandoned.
14:23:27bluebrotheris it possible extending inno setup to do stuff like firmware patching?
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14:26:10amiconnbluebrother: Not innosetup itself, that's a script controlled installer. But innosetup could lauch tools
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14:32:46linuxstbThe ipodwizard Rockbox installer also uses some kind of generic install system, but I forget which one.
14:34:02linuxstbHow about "DesktopApplications" for your wiki page? It doesn't need Rockbox in the name.
14:34:43 Quit Gnelik (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
14:34:50rasherI'm already writing on RockboxTools, but I'll abandon that once I'm ready to save
14:36:33linuxstbamiconn: Did the old innosetup installer have the capability to download things from the web? Or is everything bundled with the installer?
14:36:35rasherWow, watching the ipodwizard forums, I think I lost several IQ points
14:38:25 Join timing [0] (
14:39:01rasherIt is nsis indeed.
14:39:17timinghello, why is directory caching not set to On as default setting?
14:39:44timingthe slowlyness of the dirlisting speed might scare users?
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14:40:14rasherI think it's mainly because of the devices with low RAM, so as to not eat that
14:40:34rasherUsing 500kb to speed up browsing might not be a problem with 32mb ram, but it is if you only have 2MB
14:41:01timingwell ram size can be detected?
14:41:29*Bagder never uses dir cache...
14:41:40timingBagder: why not?
14:41:43preglowi actually think dircache should be default on non-archos stuff
14:41:51Bagderbecause I don't benefit from it
14:41:52rasherI think it'd be a sensible default for devices with >8mb
14:42:16timingBagder: yeah what makes it a non benefit option for you then?
14:42:20rasherI'm not even sure if I have it on or off at the moment.
14:42:22preglowi'd go insane if the disk had to spin up all the time when browsing now after using dircache for a year
14:42:28Bagdertiming: ?
14:42:30rashertiming: If you browse very little, you don't need it
14:42:34BagderI don't browse a lot
14:42:36timingah yeah
14:42:38timingah okay
14:42:46rasherAnd then it just takes up buffer space
14:43:01 Quit [sellout] (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:43:04rasherBut still, I think those who don't need it are a minority, and would mostly know to disable it
14:43:17Bagderyes I guess
14:44:20rasherThe last point being fairly important
14:45:08 Quit bluebrother ("CGI:IRC")
14:48:05timingare there good EQ presents?
14:48:14timingmy EQ preset list is empty
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14:48:31amiconnlinuxstb: Everything is bundled. I don't know whether innosetup is capable of downloading from the web
14:49:05rashertiming: I believe resent builds include some EQ presets. Whether they are any good is up to you to decide.
14:49:17amiconnrasher: Dircahce isn't built into the archos version
14:53:57rasherThat just makes it easier
14:54:28rasherI really think dircache should default to on, since most users will benefit, and those who'd rather be without it, are likely to know how
14:56:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:56:58preglowaye, aye
14:59:06*linuxstb agrees
14:59:26rasherI probably left out a ton
14:59:33linuxstbThere's probably other features we could enable by default - most new features seem to be disabled when they're added.
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15:00:31rasherIt would be nice if all you had to do to enable tag cache was to switch to "ID3 Database" (why is it still called that again?)
15:00:46rasherAnd it'd build if it wasn't ready, after asking of course
15:01:42BagderI vote for not calling it tag cache too ;-)
15:02:07preglowoh yes
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15:02:33 Part daurn ("So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish!")
15:02:58rasherI think I translated it to something horrible like "Infodatabase" (and fixed the inconsistency)
15:03:20preglowwhat do apple call it? :>
15:03:30rasher"The only thing you get"?
15:03:40rasherI doubt they call it anything
15:04:15preglowyes, i figured, but worth a shot
15:04:42rasherIf memory serves, you own a nano, go find out
15:05:18preglowmy nano doesn't really help me much in that endeavour
15:05:28preglowit doesn't have much apple related stuff on it
15:06:04LinusNi think "database view" and "file view" sounds ok
15:06:14preglowand i agree completely, sounds nice
15:06:44*Bagder agrees
15:06:48rasherAnd the menu under file view could simply be... "Database"?
15:07:24rasherI don't see how anyone could misunderstand that. It's a database of your songs, what else?
15:07:30Bagderand tag cache would be "database"
15:07:48LinusNnice and simple
15:08:14rasherHow elusively siple
15:08:21rasherThat's probably not a real word.
15:08:40jhMikeSAll Your Base
15:10:52preglowalmost makes me wish we had svn, so we could rename tagcache.c !
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15:15:28*rasher cooks up a tagcache > database patch
15:15:38rasherShould I rename the files as well?
15:15:46LinusNwait with that
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15:16:03jhMikeStesting all the builds after organizing firmware/SOURCES is tedious :P
15:16:16LinusNrasher: make sure you include the manual in the patch
15:16:19amiconnjhMikeS: cygwin?
15:16:38jhMikeSno vmware
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15:17:33rasherLinusN: way ahead of you. That's what made me wonder about the files, since they're mentioned in the manual
15:17:37rasherbut I guess that'll wait
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15:18:08jhMikeSwish we had a quick way to set up all builds and run a make command on all of them, or is that one of those things I don't know yet?
15:18:12LinusNrasher: aha, you mean the database files
15:18:25Bagder"all" builds are quite a few...
15:18:34Bagderthe 53 in the CVS build round aren't _all_
15:18:40LinusNrasher: i think we could rename those
15:19:10rasherOkay, I'll get right on it, they're simply #defines, so shouldn't be a problem
15:19:19rasherExcept that people will have to rename or rebuild
15:19:26jhMikeSI counted 76 if I got _all_ the folders created in advance
15:19:50jhMikeSmost of the way through though
15:20:36jhMikeSreally only have to do make bin
15:20:37amiconnIf you really want all, I'd expect more than just 76
15:20:45rasherlowlight: I created a patch to accept a root dir argument for the sim
15:20:51jhMikeSanything in the configure menu that is
15:21:20 Quit lowlight ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
15:21:24jhMikeSnot the debugs and all that since the source selection is basically by bootloader and simulator
15:22:50amiconnAh, no , they're less
15:23:14amiconn(not counting dead and experimental versions)
15:23:17Bagderthere are 25 targets (some can be ignored), then there are simulators, bootloaders and different ram sizes (in various combos)
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15:23:52amiconn19 targets * 3 types (target, bootloader, sim)
15:23:53lowlightrasher: nice...I'll try to test it out later
15:24:11amiconn(not counting the ram sizes as well)
15:24:55amiconnI left out: all Gmini, iFP, Gigabeat, Sansa and Elio
15:24:58jhMikeSI wasn't counting things that don't vary the sources used
15:25:14rasherI don't think gmini can be considered a target by now..
15:25:47rasherAlright, Tag Cache -> Database patch:
15:25:54jhMikeSSome things just don't have things implemented and don't compile anyway
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15:26:09lowlightSlasheri: tagcache question...
15:26:20lowlightSlasheri: in check_dir won't there be problems with the recursion if curpath gets truncated in add_tagcache (during ADD_TAG)?
15:29:59lowlightSlaheri: after calling get_metadata, why not use id3.path instead of "path", the strncpy in get_metadata will truncate the "path" if it was too long.
15:33:06jhMikeSI know know if it people find it irritating in any way to have every #endif marked with what #if* it ends. I find it helps to not get lost.
15:33:32jhMikeSI don't know even
15:34:35rasher"[Sun] is very close to announcing that it will put the mobile (ME) and standard (SE) editions of the Java platform into the GNU General Public License (GPL)"
15:34:41rasherJ2me on Rockbox!
15:34:59BagderjhMikeS: I think that's a good habit
15:35:15rasherOr whatever the standard is called.
15:36:10*Bagder has no clue
15:36:17Bagderwhere java enters, I leave ;-)
15:36:25Kasperlerasher: iirc you can get the sourcecode for a j2me jvm already from sun
15:36:48jhMikeSBagder: It's one I obey quite strictly as well as marking the the closing brace of a function with a comment containing the function name. That helps on really long ones imo to see what it is without having to scroll to the begining. Maybe just neurosis? :)
15:36:48Bagderbut hardly GPL compatible?
15:37:07Bagderor a sign of age? ;-)
15:37:48rasherKasperle: wouldn't be able to use it in Rockbox though, as Bagder says
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15:38:53rasherOf course, it'd probably still be a cold day in hell the day someone manages to persuade the J2ME code to compile and run on Rockbox
15:39:09Kasperlerasher, Bagder: you're probably not allowed to distribute it, but people could build their own jvm to run on rockbox?
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15:41:21Paul_the_NerdKasperle: I'm sure someone will take up the torch once it's GPL, then put it down, then slowly let it whimper out while insisting they're making progress. :-P
15:41:33yksihello rockboxers
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15:43:30KasperlePaul_the_Nerd: hehe ;)
15:44:00BagderI'd guess we'll actually have wma support before that happens! ;-P
15:44:07*jhMikeS isn't the vaporware kind of guy, just the week late kind :P
15:44:38Paul_the_NerdI'm not too trustful of the HFS+ guy either.
15:44:42Kasperlecompiling the cvm is a pain as it is, even on linux. at least it was a pain 3 years ago
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15:45:05jhMikeSso Duke Nukem's being ported to rocbox I hear?
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15:46:43rasherPaul_the_Nerd: where's this guy?
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15:47:10rasherAh, a video.. because we all know videos prove everything.
15:47:51rasher"when i took the source and looked at it, the answer became obvious, it's rather simple, but a bitch to actually get working"
15:47:58rasherThat sounds like someone pretending to be a coder
15:48:24Paul_the_NerdEspecially since I *think* it'd be fairly easy to fake it.
15:48:26rasherBut I guess time will tell.
15:48:50Paul_the_NerdI mean, I know it'd be fairly easy to fake it, but I think it'd be fairly easy for someone to have no programming knowledge at all and still fake it.
15:49:05 Part timing
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15:50:05rasher"maybe you should tell the rockbox people, then force people to join this forum to get rockbox on their macpods" haha
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15:52:59*Bagder looks at the "move of the impossible"
15:53:02Bagdermovie even
15:53:11rasherMight as well just have two ipods in that video. The fact that he bothered with music and intro text seems to indicate that it's pure rubbish
15:54:06rasherI'm getting motionsick. Damn
15:54:15BagderI'll faint soon
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15:54:37rasherI predict he'll have a harddisk crash soon and "not bother" doing it again or something like that
15:55:42rasherOf course, he's more than welcome to prove me wrong, but I see no reason to believe him yet.
15:56:05linuxstbI think a HFS+ driver would be pretty easy to spot in the source tree... files patent for "interestingness"
15:56:59rasherOh god.
15:57:29Paul_the_NerdIt sounds more like they've patented a means of searching/sorting based on perceived interestingness of a file determined by user created metadata.
15:57:44rasherWow, I think jhMikeS was close to a new record on the build table
15:57:59jhMikeSonly close? dang
15:58:16Paul_the_Nerdrasher: I think the guy's already pulled his "I'm not going to work on it any more stunt" or something, seeing the thread in their forum.
15:58:19rasherI believe preglow broke 10k once. With less builds even.
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15:59:22rasherPaul_the_Nerd: In an extremely transparent way, too
16:00:06 Join rconan [0] (
16:00:16Paul_the_Nerd"I don't like this guy, so he ruined it for all of you." Heh
16:00:49 Quit _FireFly_ ("Leaving")
16:00:54rasherShould probably just delete the thread in the forum
16:01:33Bagdermaybe in his time zone it was april first? ;-)
16:01:48Paul_the_NerdI'll give it a couple weeks. I don't like deleting threads in general, but if it starts to cause any sort of problem I will do something about the thread.
16:02:16Paul_the_NerdJust because I don't trust people doesn't mean they're *all* liars. Just most of them.
16:02:28Paul_the_NerdOh, wait, no, that was yesterday.
16:04:23lowlightwoot...nice's like flickr was reading my brain...
16:06:23*rasher has been using a windows program to cycle through the top-100 pictures from flickr for desktop background
16:06:42rasherIt's pretty neat. Now I want to write something like it for linux
16:07:50Paul_the_Nerdrasher: Can it be pointed at individual aspects of Flickr, like a single set from your own collection?
16:08:19rasherNot sure it can be quite that specific, let me check
16:08:31rasherOh yes, it can
16:08:42rasherOr specific search words (for one person, or everyone)
16:09:00rasherOr tags.. or a person's favourites..
16:09:02lowlightI believe there's a flickr perl module
16:09:19rasherThere's probably a flickr everything module by now
16:10:09rasherPaul_the_Nerd: (free as in beer, but requires .Net)
16:10:24rasherThe installer will download .net if you don't have it.
16:10:58lowlightlooks like they have everything but a Rockbox plugin...
16:13:06Paul_the_Nerdrasher: I have .net, since it's necessary for the XNA toolkit.
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16:13:30Slasherilowlight: yes, true. That needs to be fixed
16:13:37Slasherilowlight: id3.path can be truncated as well
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16:15:08rasherHelp. The awesome power of the recursive acronym has fallen into the hands of Microsoft.
16:15:15rasherXNA's Not Acronymed
16:16:32preglowgod salvage me from acrynyms
16:20:39rasherOh man. Now I've gone and messed my windows sims up.
16:20:48rasherBecause I edited the sourcetree while they were building.
16:21:15rasherSo half of them will have tag cache named database, the other half will not.
16:21:36rasherwell, maybe. Perhaps they were already done.
16:23:48lowlightSlasheri: yes, my point was that id3.path will be truncated since only the first MAX_PATH characters will be copied from curpath. But it's also a safe buffer to modify, unlike curpath.
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16:24:10amiconnjhMikeS: I don't mark *evry* endif with what #if it belongs to, only those with more than a couple of lines inbetween
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16:24:46lowlightSlasheri: any reason *all* tags need to be less than MAX_PATH-32?
16:24:49Kasperleregarding java, seen this: ?
16:25:09amiconn...and I never put comments at the end of a function
16:25:46Slasherilowlight: nope, i don't remember why i choose that value, it was some safety margin
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16:31:21markunI include system-arm.c with a UIE function in SOURCES, is does get compiled but it still complains that it UIE can't be found. It's also not in the map file. What am I doing wrong?
16:32:22amiconnPerhaps asking the obvious, but there's not a 'static' in front of it by accident?
16:32:54markunin front of UIE?
16:33:03markunno: void UIE(unsigned int pc, unsigned int num)
16:33:43markunI also have a system-pp5020.c. If I put the UIE function in there it all works fine
16:34:44markunsystem-arm.c does get compiled.
16:37:19jhMikeSamiconn: I went with that for awhile myself but then I wanted it marked for when it's no longer just a couple lines or else it may never get marked :\
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16:39:55blue_lizardif i use lcd_putsxy and after it mess around with gui_bitmap_scrollbar_draw or gui_scrollbar_draw do i still need lcd_update() afterwards?
16:40:19markunamiconn: It's probably something small I overlooked, but very frustrating
16:40:24blue_lizardor is an update included in the gui_ stuff
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16:44:19rasherI wonder if any programs such as Amarok would be interested in adding tagcache support along with their ipod support
16:44:29rasherI'm sorry "Database" support
16:45:14blue_lizardit would be nich if such programs would have some plugin mechanism
16:45:23rasherMost do
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16:45:37blue_lizardso one could make the tagcache bevore and also resize the cover art and such
16:45:42rasherBanshee, Rythmbox and Amarok all do, afaik
16:46:03Kasperleweee. apparently i patched ipod loader 2 to boot rockbox on the 5.5g :D
16:47:09rasherStill only 30gig?
16:47:46Kasperlei have no 80 gig ipod ;)
16:48:38Kasperlethough i'm wondering whether i'm booting it off the fat or ext2 partition. i fear the rockbox image is on the ext2 partition :/
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16:56:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:20:25markunpreglow: what?
17:21:44linuxstbmarkun: Have you tried a "make clean" (your UIE problem)?
17:22:00markunlinuxstb: rm -R * and tools/configure.. :(
17:22:46markunThere is a system-arm.o which gets linked and I checked with objdump that it contains UIE
17:23:06jhMikeSI always forget cvs add on something! :(
17:24:41markunjhMikeS: thanks for tidying SOURCES a bit
17:24:47preglowmarkun: just a general commit w00t
17:25:09linuxstbmarkun: Are there any other functions defined in system-arm.c?
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17:28:40amiconnjhMikeS: Where did the stuff from power.c go?
17:29:07 Quit perpleXa ("Leaving")
17:29:33jhMikeSnothing for coldfire in power.c was needed. it was all in the target dir already
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17:31:43linuxstbmarkun: Which file does ld refer to when it tells you that UIE can not be found? Maybe the problem is in that file.
17:32:32markunLD rockbox.elf
17:32:32markun/usr/home/markun/tmp/src/rockbox/rockbox-commit/build/ipod5g/firmware/target/arm/crt0-pp.o: In function `undef_instr_handler':
17:32:36markuntarget/arm/crt0-pp.S:(.text+0x8): undefined reference to `UIE'
17:33:02markunbut when I move UIE to system-pp5020.c I don't get this error
17:33:55amiconnIs UIE defined as extern in crt0-pp.S ?
17:34:23markunalso apps/ doesn't include system-arm.o, but it does include system-pp5020.o
17:35:02markunamiconn, linuxstb: maybe this helps:
17:35:17linuxstbWhy are you using the crt0-pp.S file anyway? Shouldn't you use target/arm/crt0.S ?
17:36:13amiconnmarkun: In crt0-pp.S, try changing line 319 to read:
17:36:17amiconn.extern UIE
17:36:46amiconnThe .global is wrong afaiu, and it just worked by coincidence
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17:37:45markunlinuxstb: I don't know. Didn't think I changed it to use crt0-pp.S
17:37:55markunamiconn: same problem
17:38:04amiconnHmno, that is within #ifdef BOOTLOADER
17:38:08linuxstbmarkun: Looking at your out.txt, are you compiling for the gigabeat or the ipod5g?
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17:38:40markunlinuxstb: ipod5g. Should have put it in my rockbox folder instead of Gigabeat
17:38:44amiconnNo, it's not, hrmph
17:39:15amiconnIt's a case of misleading #endif comment
17:40:26markunI can commit it with UIE in the various system-*.c files and not in sytem-arm.c
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18:04:48DeefMy H300 can play playlists saved from Winamp
18:04:59DeefBut Winamp can not play playlists saved by my H300
18:05:04DeefBut WMP can
18:05:45markunDeef: maybe winamp expects backslashes in the path?
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18:08:35linuxstbDeef: I don't know if it could cause problems, but do your filenames have non-ASCII characters?
18:09:14DeefIts what markun said by the looks of it
18:10:47DeefRockbox uses forward slashes.. so Winamp changes Drive:/Music/Games/Sonic/Icecap.mp3 to Drive:\Playlists\/Music/Games/Sonic/Icecap.mp3
18:11:14DeefThrows in the playlists directory for some reason, and that nasty \/
18:13:29jhMikeShrm..left in something in a header that I was gonna move but didn't :-\
18:13:39DeefJust using relative addressing.. even though it doesn't save that way
18:14:04bluebrotherDeef, you could try running the iriverify plugin on that playlists.
18:14:23DeefWhat does the plugin do?
18:14:45bluebrotherit converts playlists to the iriver format which uses backslashes instead of slashes
18:14:47DeefThe files are all good.. I edited the playlist to add a .. at the start of each path, and Winamp is happy with that
18:15:02bluebrothermaybe that's sufficient
18:15:43DeefYup by the looks of it
18:15:48DeefA plugin for Rockbox?
18:16:06bluebrotheryes. Just use the "open with" menu
18:16:10DeefSo it can be done on the player?
18:16:12Deef.. sweet
18:16:39bluebrotheryeah ... but I never tried, no idea if this is sufficient for winamp.
18:17:16DeefIt should be, I just switched the first forwardslash of a path to a backslash and that was enough to get Winamp playing
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18:25:13DeefThanks for that
18:26:33*Deef wonders why Rockbox uses forward slashes
18:27:51jhMikeSDoes running rockbox from flash actually work for the h100 series?
18:28:20linuxstbWorks for me on my H140. It makes debugging new builds a little annoying - you need to either flash it, or remember to hold REC whilst booting to load the disk version.
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18:28:42linuxstb(or rolo the disk version after booting from flash)
18:28:55linuxstbBut it seems to work well, and bootup is very fast.
18:30:05jhMikeSdetect_flashed_rockbox seems to be a general purpose function. Perhaps I should use HAVE_FLASHED_ROCKBOX in system.c instead of model to select it. #define in the config file.
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18:38:47jhMikeSbootup is pretty fast as it is. maybe should do one up for the x5. that's a another story
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18:43:54 Part linuxstb
18:44:32Kasperlein my original firmware image (ipod 5.5g, 30gb), i have some data at offset 0x4800, and then at offset 0x5000 i'll get some data containing strings like "portalplayer 0.0", a build number, copyright notice, whereas with the patched ipod_fw i get nothing at offset 0x4800, but the stuff at offset 0x5000 looks similar. does anyone know what that data between 0x4800 and 0x5000 is, and whether it's needed at all?
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18:47:20jhMikeSmain needs target/ing as well...
18:50:26*amiconn deems non-flashed bootup rather slow
18:50:34amiconn_especially_ on iriver
18:51:25jhMikeSit's faster than iAudio for sure. barely get to look at the logo.
18:51:27amiconnipod appears to be faster (with of removed)
18:52:01amiconnjhMikeS: Yes, the logo only shows up for a short time. But it takes quite a while until the logo appears
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18:52:44jhMikeS6-7 seconds vs. 9-10 for iAudio
18:53:07amiconnYes, perhaps I am spoiled. I'm used to boot times of 3..5 seconds
18:53:10jhMikeSI think having a voice file present might have something to do with it though
18:53:22amiconnThat is on archos, flashed
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18:53:55amiconnAnd the most convenient thing is that it already starts to register keypresses 0.5 seconds after power on
18:53:57jhMikeSI used to not see the logo on iRiver except a ghost you can queue up to your song before rb is finished
18:56:06jhMikeSwith OF on x5 you usually fall asleep and forget why you turned it on in the first place
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18:56:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:57:12amiconnI can power on and push resume
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18:59:45jhMikeSI'm not in the resume club. If I stopped something it's because I didn't want to hear more of it.
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19:02:23jhMikeSOne thing I miss in CoWon OF is that the current browse folder follows the playback. Would like to do something to enable that behavior (optionally).
19:02:28amiconnHehe, you never stop because you arrived somewhere?
19:03:01jhMikeSI don't use it in the's for relaxing
19:03:35amiconnI never used the cowon of...
19:04:09jhMikeSIt did have that one thing which was nice and maybe the backlight off power flick
19:04:53*jhMikeS notices people talk about OF in the past tense a lot
19:05:48*amiconn didn't use the OF for more than a few hours on the majority of his targets
19:06:15amiconnOnly one of them... because back then I didn't know about rockbox
19:08:05amiconnAnd the only OF I do use occasionally is the H300 OF... for usbotg
19:09:19jhMikeSsame and only reason I use x5 OF
19:09:58Learjhmikes: follows playback even while in the browser?
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19:18:25jhMikeSLear: No...if you're say on the WPS and want to browse, it will start with the current file playing selected or something like that
19:18:46LearWell, RB has something close to that...
19:18:59LearSame folder, at least.
19:20:07jhMikeSCould be good enough but never really looked into it. I've got directories that have 100s of files (they should be laid out like that) and having the file selected would be a boon too.
19:20:41amiconnRockbox does select the current file when going to the browser
19:20:46amiconnIt's an option though
19:20:56LearYep, see "Follow Playlist".
19:21:01amiconnSome people prefer the browser to always start in the root
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19:21:49jhMikeSI'd like personally a certain keypress to do it or leave where I left off like to keep holding select for a certain time.
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19:23:58jhMikeSI might have tried it way back and forgotten about it :P
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19:29:12 Part pixelma
19:29:51barrywardell_does anybody here have a PP5022.mi4 from an 8GB Sansa?
19:30:18*Paul_the_Nerd bought his 6gb shortly before the 8 was announced. :(
19:30:32Paul_the_NerdI didn't know they had a different firmware, though
19:30:42*jhMikeS needs to put in a trap to make sure anything other than playback using the audio buffer calls audio_get_buffer first once audio is initialized
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19:31:04barrywardell_they might be the same, i'm not sure
19:31:13Paul_the_NerdI bet they are.
19:31:23Paul_the_NerdI know that the 2, 4, and 6 were.
19:31:30jhMikeSthey might be giants and what are we gonna do unless they are?
19:31:31Paul_the_NerdAnd isn't the difference in function on the 4/6 line?
19:31:43barrywardell_mine was version 1.02.12 i think. not sure if it makes much difference
19:32:11barrywardell_the sansa updater sandisk provides only works with windows :(
19:32:49Paul_the_NerdYeah, I wish they hadn't moved to an updater. :(
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19:33:11Paul_the_NerdI seem to be using 01.00.12A
19:33:51barrywardell_I was testing dan_a's ata code and can't find the backup I made of the PP5022.mi4
19:34:44barrywardell_Paul_the_Nerd: that's the same as on Bagder's site I think. I'm not sure if a newer firmware is needed for the newer 8GB model though
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19:35:34jhMikeSweird, did one commit and got a double...was waiting for CVS lock in firmware/export
19:35:56Paul_the_Nerdbarrywardell_: I don't know. :(
19:36:38rasherHow does HAVE_FLASHED_ROCKBOX work with the Archoses?
19:38:08jhMikeSIt doesn't. It was only relevant to the one targets that used the function detect_flashed_rockbox, H100 series
19:39:01rasherSo not all targets that are flashable define HAVE_FLASHED_ROCKBOX?
19:39:17jhMikeSNo, but I guess they could use it now
19:39:25rasherJust seems like it could cause some confusion
19:40:49jhMikeSShould've been clearer in the -m then
19:42:51jhMikeSIt's just that specifying features for the higher level code tends to clean things up a lot. If it needs an #ifdef with a specific port it probably target/ material.
19:53:13Paul_the_NerdWell, there's no guarantee that it'll stay for H100, or even Coldfire targets.
19:54:07jhMikeSPaul_the_Nerd: the ability to flash rockbox?
19:55:06 Quit thegeek (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:55:34Paul_the_NerdjhMikeS: Yes.
19:56:23jhMikeSPaul_the_Nerd: I was actually considering adding it to x5. It's a rather slow booter and I hate to have that flash memory going to waste.
19:56:40Paul_the_NerdThat's a coldfire. :-P
19:56:47jhMikeSI know
19:56:56Paul_the_NerdBut yeah, I hear it's a nice feature.
19:57:12jhMikeSWonder what the point in taking it out altogether would be
19:57:57Paul_the_NerdTaking it out altogether?
19:58:06jhMikeSFor coldfire
19:58:27Paul_the_NerdI'm confused.
19:58:36Paul_the_NerdTaking the ability to flash out?
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19:58:55jhMikeSme said there's no guarantee that it'll stay got H100 or even Coldfire targets.
19:59:04jhMikeSfor H100
19:59:48Paul_the_NerdI meant that there's no guarantee that it'll *only* be on those
20:00:04Paul_the_NerdYou seemed to be talking about moving it into the /target/ areas, and I was saying it's a more global thing, at least in potential.
20:00:37jhMikeSno...that's was just a statement about the reason to define things in terms of features
20:01:06jhMikeSyour point was the entire point of the change :D
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20:02:02Paul_the_NerdCongratulations to us for failing to communicate clearly.
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20:06:53dan_abarrywardell_: Did it work?
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20:07:57jhMikeSIf folks targeted a few ports most relevent to them the move out #ifdef hell could be done pretty quickly imo.
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20:11:48makogreetings, i was wondering if i could get write access to the wiki
20:13:08makothat's right
20:13:49oboas long as you promise not to spam it :)
20:13:55makoi promise :)
20:14:02makoi have done a quick and dirty installer in python
20:14:27makoand also run a large rockbox install party in boston
20:15:03 Quit Id2ndR ("Parti")
20:15:28makoi figure both issues, an ongoing developments might be good additions to the wiki
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20:15:40hcsmako: cool, I'd heard about that install party, how'd it go?
20:16:04makoi wrote up an article on newsforge.. got published yesterday
20:16:21makoabout 50-60 people showed up
20:16:25barrywardell_dan_a: yes, kind of
20:16:30makowe weren't counting, unfortunately
20:16:33makoi did a couple dozen myself
20:16:38makoi think we did probably 40 total
20:16:41obomako: it was spotted earlier today, there is some chat in the IRC logs
20:16:55makoare the logs published somewhere/
20:17:05barrywardell_dan_a: reading bank 0 works fine
20:17:10makoobo: thanks
20:17:15barrywardell_dan_a: but bank 1 doesn't seem to work
20:18:05barrywardell_ata_read_sectors freezes when you give it an address bigger than 0x7a77ff
20:18:54lowlightmako: someone listed your installer in DesktopTools on the wiki
20:19:03makolowlight: ah great
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20:19:52makorasher: sorry for not showing up before.. i wanted to release the install script at the same time as the article.. and i didn't finishe either until just a few days ago
20:20:40rashermako: Oh hi. Not to worry, it's just that we get a lot of people who do stuff isolated.
20:21:01makorasher: i understand, completely :)
20:21:19makorasher: well, i haven't done very much :)
20:21:30barrywardell_dan_a: also, I think there should be "start-=0x7a77ff;" on line 470
20:22:07hcsmako: nice article, well written
20:22:36makorasher: and i'm here now
20:22:38rashermako: It's certainly useful, since as you noted somewhere, there's no linux installer yet.
20:22:58rasherOr was.
20:23:19makoright, i think it's about ready to become an osx installer as well
20:23:26linuxstb__mako: Are you a C programmer?
20:23:32makoif i learn a little more about handling OSX partition tables and device autodetection
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20:23:38makolinuxstb: yes
20:24:30linuxstbAre you planning on improving ipodpatcher and/or diskdump?
20:24:51linuxstb(I wrote the current versions, but don't really have any motivation to do more work on them)
20:24:55makomy installer would have been a shell script except i wanted to use a yaml file for storing a bunch of ipod data
20:25:01makolinuxstb: i've considered it
20:25:27linuxstbDo you know about the ipodlinux installer? That will probably have some useful functions for detecting ipods.
20:26:02makoyes, i've used it
20:26:22linuxstbAm I right in thinking it relies on the existence of a sysinfo file/
20:26:36makoi think so
20:26:44makoi managed to do it using /sys
20:26:59makoit relies on newer kernels but it's elegant and basically always works
20:27:22makoi don't find the install process all too difficult
20:27:44makomy issue was that i wanted to install 40 in 1.5hour and needed to automate a bit for my own sanity
20:27:56rasherFew people here do, that's part of the problem I guess
20:28:51makothe other thing is that the diversity of hardware and configurations makes things quite tricky
20:29:15makobut the party was a pretty good setting for it.. i managed to do weeks of debugging in an hour or so :)
20:29:35makobut it's still more like a simple automation than the ipodlinux isntaller
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20:31:56makowell, if y'all would like me to merge my script into your repository, i'd be happy to do so
20:32:06rashermako: irony_installer-0.1a1.tar.gz is a 404
20:32:11makoi'd also be happy to keep it unofficial
20:32:18makomaybe i broke that last night
20:32:33makorasher: one second
20:35:54rasherI don't know if anyone has any plans for working on a remotely unified installer. It's really a field where Rockbox is lacking (at least on the non-Archos devices)
20:36:11makorasher: what i've got now isn't it
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20:36:45makorasher: but i'm happy to work with folks to modify what i've got or write something new that is it
20:37:22makorasher: link should work now
20:38:08rasherThe biggest problem is that it's python. That's fine, perhaps even ideal on Linux, but most users are on Windows, where it's either useless or a pain (for the user)
20:38:19 Join pixelma [0] (i=pixelma@
20:38:23rasherBut then, we could just have two seperate installers
20:38:38makorasher: better would be c+wx or something?
20:39:01rasherProbably, or qt4, or mono/.net I guess
20:39:08n1sJava! *runs for cover*
20:39:09makorasher: that's that the most platform specific thing about the script :)
20:39:36makorasher: it's basically a shellscript i rewrote in pythonso i could use some more complex data structures
20:41:10lowlighthow good is py2exe?
20:41:11rasherI guess there's not much more to it.
20:41:27rasherlowlight: I'm theorising that it'd create a lot of download overhead
20:41:41rasherBut I don't actually know that for sure
20:42:03rashern1s: I suppose that's an option.. if you must
20:42:20n1sj/k ;-)
20:42:42 Quit dwihno (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:42:42rasherWell, if someone wrote an installer in Java, I wouldn't throw it out for being Java.
20:43:01makojava might be a decent option
20:43:26linuxstbC++ and wxwidgets would get my vote.
20:43:48makothe thing is
20:44:19rasherAlso, there's already some wxwidgets code around.. just need to get Christi to release the source (and/or work on it)
20:44:35makobecause device autodetection and most low level device interaction is platform specific
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20:44:51n1sThe biggest thing against java is probably, the example set by the tag db generating java thing, doesn't get a lot of updates, does it?
20:44:57amiconn[20:44:47] -logbot_- Cassandra ( signed off 5 months and 19 days ago (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:44:59makothe only shared code ends up being the UI and what ended up being like 100 lines of programming logic
20:45:03linuxstbI'm thinking that could be based on the ipodlinux installer - which is C++.
20:45:16linuxstbBut the UI will be Rockbox-specific, so could be any toolkit.
20:45:19makoplus a whole bunch of data
20:45:33rashern1s: That's different, the java thing got abandoned because the tagdb got abandoned
20:45:35n1syep seems like cassandra's vapourised
20:45:47hcsmako: have you seen my program for converting iTunesDB to TagCache? That might be handy in getting iPods migrated
20:45:57n1sbut the perl script was updated
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20:46:22makohcs: i thought about doing that last time but didn't have quite enough time.. will probably write that next time i run an event
20:47:13makohcs: there's certainly code to parse itunesdb, rest should be easy
20:47:38rashermako: I think you misunderstood, hcs has a itunesdb to tagcache program written already
20:47:39hcsmako: I've already written one: ConvertiTunesDBtoTagCache
20:47:49hcs(in the wiki)
20:47:51makohcs: ah, awesome :)
20:48:09makohcs: yes, that is handy :)
20:48:40*mako checks it out
20:49:08linuxstbhcs: Are you planning on extracting other things from the itunesdb, such as playlists and album art?
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20:49:37hcslinuxstb: I have considered playlists, but I really don't care enough about album art
20:49:47linuxstbSomeone wrote a plugin to extract itunesdb playlists months ago, but I think it's abandoned. It's on the patch tracker though.
20:49:48makohcs: i'd love to incorporate this as an option into my installer :)
20:50:16hcswith libgpod it'd be dead simple to export playlists
20:50:17webguest48Is there a wiki page on how to control the ipod UIsimulator with the keyboard? The only key reference I can find is the archos documentation in the docs
20:50:33obowebguest48: run it with the −−background option
20:50:35rasherwebguest48: start the sim with −−background
20:50:43bluebrotherwebguest48, see the UiSimulator wiki page.
20:50:50*hcs stopped typing when the other two responses came up
20:50:56bluebrotherbut I'm not sure if that has the keys for ipods added.
20:51:02rasherDidn't it once print the controls on the console as you started?
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20:51:04Slasherihmm, album art support could be implemented to tagcache also.. could be some special binary tag containing fixed length of data. And of course that would be kept on disk
20:51:16makohcs: what happens with drm music.. does it not show up or show up and not work?
20:51:40linuxstbSlasheri: Or at least the filename of a .bmp file.
20:51:44hcsmako: It ought to show up, but won't work. I don't know though, I don't have any myself.
20:51:52Slasherilinuxstb: yep
20:52:09makohcs: yeah, neither do i
20:52:26makohcs: ideally you could detect that and not have it show up
20:52:28hcsI've been meaning to get my roommate to let me try it out on his...
20:53:24hcsyeah, there might be a flag in iTunesDB (though I doubt it) or maybe we'll need m4a parsing
20:53:45linuxstbmako: In the filebrowser, .m4p isn't a supported extension, so it won't show up. I'm not sure about the tagcache viewer, but I doubt it will show up there either.
20:53:45hcsand the program will say "Apple took your money and gave you the unusable file: %s"
20:53:54makohcs: it's relatively straightforward to go the m4a wrote
20:54:12makohcs: nice :)
20:54:20hcsyeah, I have unDrm'd m4a that works fine
20:54:30hcsthough not in iTunesDB
20:54:47makohcs: yes, i've seen that too
20:54:51hcsI'd expect the tagcache viewer to not care about the file types, once the stuff is in the DB
20:55:02hcsthen again... I don't know
20:55:19makoi actually broke my ipod screen last week :)
20:55:38makoit's fine for installing onto and off and doing autodetection stuff, but not much else
20:55:54rasherUse the voice ui
20:55:56linuxstbmako: What theme did you select for your lucky users? I hope you didn't leave them staring at the default...
20:56:11makolinuxstb: depended on the ipod
20:56:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:56:42makothe poor man with poor vision and the nano :)
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20:59:53rasherI wonder why noone have created a spoken voicefile
21:00:15amiconnThere is a spoken voice file
21:00:24amiconn... made by Christi
21:00:45amiconnInfortunately it was never updated, so now it's badly outdated
21:00:46rasherTrue, but that's for Rockbox 2.3 or something
21:01:10*linuxstb imagines developers having to speak new voice strings and including WAV files with patches...
21:01:29hcsheh, imagine the collection of accents
21:01:52barrywardelldoes anyone here know of a web irc client i can use to access the ipl irc channel? the only port blocked on my net connection is IRC!
21:01:55*bluebrother imagines the various voices in one voice file
21:02:03amiconnlinuxstb: For how many languages? ;)
21:02:27rasherHaha. Well, it's not as much work as you'd think. I started creating a danish voicefile, but decided I hated my voice too much about a third through.
21:02:43rasherThat took roughly a couple of hours.
21:04:18n1sthe editing would be a major PITA though...
21:04:32rasherI'd do an English version if not for the voice thing, and the fact that I think few people would like an "English with horrible foreign accent" voice
21:04:47rashern1s: those two hours included saving each clip as a single file
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21:05:00n1syou're fast...
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21:05:18rasherWell, I didn
21:05:20 Join voyeur [0] (i=58a10615@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:05:26rasher't edit it very well
21:05:31rasherjust quick select+crop
21:05:50linuxstbbarrywardell: Try - but I've no idea if any of those hits will work.
21:05:53n1sand it would be "fun" to finish a voice file only to realize you spoke too slow so that the file was too big for archoses ;-)
21:06:54 Join Albert [0] (i=d541da3a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:07:19linuxstbYou could write a Rockbox plugin...
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21:11:37linuxstbOn a different topic, anyone know what game "Star" is based on?
21:12:07obobarrywardell: freenode accepts connections on port 8001
21:12:18 Quit bluey- ("Leaving")
21:12:50n1slinuxstb: qoute from the manual It is actually a rewrite of Star, a game written by CDK designed
21:12:50n1sfor the hp48 calculator.
21:13:43linuxstbI was just wondering if there were any more levels we could steal from somewhere.
21:13:49*n1s loves how all irc clients auto presses enter when pasting...
21:16:05n1sI don't have java installed it seems so I can't test it but found a few java versions here and there...
21:16:53 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
21:17:27linuxstbnls: Yes, I found that too, and I also don't have java...
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21:19:50barrywardellobo: thanks
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21:19:57*barrywardell ditches cgi:irc :)
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21:23:07amiconnn1s: Hehe, that's by the very same author as the rockbox version...
21:23:38 Join EspeonEefi [0] (i=espeonee@CERULEANCITY.MIT.EDU)
21:27:20AlbertHi. I just updated from CVS and now H100 and H120 fails to compile. It's the old 'No rule to make target adc-target.h' error message that shows up when button.o is built.
21:27:42amiconnMost probably you need to reconfigure
21:28:23SoulDeaDmake clean makes miracles :)
21:28:46SoulDeaDbut yeah, you need to reconfigure first
21:29:13AlbertI erased the whole sim-h100 directory and reconfigured, but the error message is still there...
21:30:00AlbertAll other targets seems to work ok (with simulator)
21:30:36barrywardelluse cvs -d
21:31:05 Quit voyeur ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
21:31:08barrywardellthat's not right
21:31:26barrywardellcvs update -d
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21:32:10AlbertI'm trying right now..
21:32:13barrywardelladc-target.h is in a new directory. cvs update only downloads new directories when you use -d
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21:33:11AlbertThanks! Now it works again. What does that -d switch do anyway?
21:33:37n1sdonloads new directories
21:33:50n1sdownloads, even
21:34:27SoulDeaD -d cvs_root_directory
21:34:27SoulDeaD Use cvs_root_directory as the root directory pathname of the reposi-
21:34:27SoulDeaD tory. Overrides the setting of the $CVSROOT environment variable.
21:34:27DBUGEnqueued KICK SoulDeaD
21:34:27SoulDeaD see node `Repository' in the CVS manual.
21:34:48SoulDeaDit?s update that updates :P
21:36:00barrywardellSoulDeaD: update -d is different. it downloads new directories as n1s said
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21:36:10amiconnSoulDeaD: -d has different meanings depending on whether it's used before or after the command
21:36:44SoulDeaDi am currently reading the manual
21:36:55webguest27nls: That java version has exactly the same 20 levels as Rockbox version... Seems the author stopped there. I prefer pixelma's graphics though.
21:37:15SoulDeaDi?ve always know exactly which command i need,,,
21:37:24AlbertGreat. Now I'm gonna try my new getpixel function for the iriver targets with 2bpp and VERTICAL_PACKING :p
21:37:39 Nick webguest27 is now known as linuxstb__ (i=5343d4aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:38:04n1slinuxstb_ yeah apparantly it's by the sam author :-)
21:38:57pixelmalinuxstb__: thanks but there not all mine... AFAIR they were dionoea's invention
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21:50:39dionoeai guess that i still have the svg sources for those graphics if anyone needs them
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21:59:10pixelmadionoea: I only completed the sets of star tiles taking the 20x20 pixels version to scale them down so the originals could only improve the quality of those a bit (only when they are bigger than that of course)
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22:00:04dionoeawell i'll see if i find the svg this week (i currently don't have the laptop i used to draw them so i can't look right away)
22:00:06pixelmaoh... I missed the svg part...
22:00:44pixelmathough I don't know if it's even worth it
22:01:10dionoeai doubt it
22:01:14 Quit voyeur ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:01:26dionoeaonly if rockbox has support for bigger lcds in the future
22:01:47pixelmayes that's what I wanted to say, too :)
22:02:39dionoeai'll commit all the sources i can find (sudoku tiles were drawn with the gimp, flip it was svg too but someone changed those after me so i doubt that my sources will be of any use)
22:03:15dionoeaminesweeper tiles were the gimp too ... or maybe just screenshots of the windows minesweeper ... i don't remember
22:03:30 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
22:03:42CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
22:03:42*amiconn wants to complain about the minesweeper tiles
22:04:03*linuxstb__ hopes they weren't copied from the Windows minesweeper...
22:04:23amiconnThey're way too big... only few tiles fit on screen and so the game is too easy
22:04:32pixelmabut they look like it
22:04:37dionoeacolors were, i think that i redrew the tiles to make them look better
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22:11:59 Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
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22:13:55tucoznice progress lately
22:14:35tucozlooks like lots of nice bugfixes has been made
22:15:21Ribsrockbox always seems to be progressing at a fair old pace
22:15:28Ribsif you look at the commits, anyway
22:16:40tucozregarding the game graphics discussion a while ago. What do you think about including the raw svg graphics with a commit. Or have some place in the cvs tree to keep original/raw files.
22:18:13tucozMy concern is that contibutors come and go, and it would be nice to have access to the .svg files (or whatever) if a new aspect ratio for instance is introduced for some target.
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22:19:09tucozwonder where that folder should go. maybe in the docs folder?
22:19:12bluebrothersounds reasonable.
22:19:34bluebrotherhow about having a "raw" subfolder below the bitmaps/native ?
22:19:46dionoeasource instead of raw maybe
22:19:59 Quit tvelocity (Client Quit)
22:20:18bluebrotherbut I guess it will still be necessary to do some hand work after scaling. I was amazed of the ipod mini tiles for jewels when I changed them.
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22:20:40bluebrotherseemed like those had simply got scaled without anyone giving them a closer look afterwards.
22:21:14tucozyes. but let´s say a 320x256 target gets a rockbox port. then we would like the original files.
22:21:17linuxstb__Maybe just create a "graphics" directory in the top-level of cvs.
22:21:37tucoz(to keep the apps for actual sources)
22:21:44SoulDeaDmaybe resources directory?
22:21:49tucozor that
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22:22:24SoulDeaDand a subtree in there for different types of resources
22:22:49SoulDeaDno it?s not a good idea
22:23:16SoulDeaDeveryone would expect to find all types of resources there, but there are already folders for som of them....
22:24:17tucozas long as there only is graphics, the resources dir would look like resources/graphics/tile.svg ...
22:24:58tucozand if another kind of resource is wanted in that directory, a new dir will be added
22:25:09tucozthat is how i imagine this
22:25:15SoulDeaDso d i
22:25:25SoulDeaDbut when you say graphics
22:25:41SoulDeaDthere may be other filetypes then .svg
22:25:52dionoeawouldn't you rather want to organise the ressources by apps instead of ressource type ?
22:26:05SoulDeaDi think they should be organized by type and purpose?
22:26:29SoulDeaDi am not sure what is better
22:26:44SoulDeaDi must confess that i am very new in rockbox...
22:27:01tucozi am sorry for being this undecided, but i think you are right dionea
22:27:20dionoeawhatever :) i beep on "dio"
22:27:25SoulDeaDbut from my previous experience i think it?s not a good idea to keep same types in different locations
22:28:23SoulDeaDthe project which i am currently working on is organize by subprojects then by codelines
22:28:44tucozi do not expect the resources dir will get crowded anytime soon
22:28:57SoulDeaDit?s very inconvenient when you want to sync all projects to certain codeline
22:29:25SoulDeaDtucoz so do i, but we must think about future...
22:29:46SoulDeaDbecause if we do not, some day we may blame ourselves
22:30:15tucozyes, but in the future i see svn or something similar. then a move is easy.
22:30:43SoulDeaDfor this concrete case you?re right :)
22:31:21tucozthese files will never be used automatically in any way. just a nice place to keep files that some contributor might want to get hold of to improve the graphics for instance.
22:31:25SoulDeaDi?ve just gone deep in principles, i am sorry
22:32:12tucozi agree with you that planning for the future is important, but in this case it´s not that important.
22:32:39SoulDeaDok, i made my proposition, i?ll sleep well now :P
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22:33:10SoulDeaDgood night
22:34:05SoulDeaDops, it was in my mother tongue...
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22:36:39pixelmatucoz: I like the idea to have those original graphics available through cvs - though I don't know which location I'd prefer
22:37:15bluebrothermaybe a new top level folder would really be a good idea, so not everyone is checking it out
22:37:35bluebrotherto avoid unneccessary traffic.
22:37:50tucozI have no strong opinion either. but a top level dir is probably the best
22:38:28dionoeahopefully noone will commit big and ugly psd files :)
22:39:00linuxstb__I would just keep it simple - e.g. /resources/star/, /resources/rockboxlogo/ (so we can put the big .tiff version) etc.
22:39:10*tucoz prepares a big and ugly psd to be ready for the resources dir
22:39:57*pixelma will add some layers ;)
22:40:03tucozlinuxstb: i agree
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22:56:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:03:06preglowoh, flac seeking
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23:05:36rotatoryes, hooray!
23:06:54linuxstb__So was that libFLAC 1.1.3 patch helpful?
23:07:01rotatornew libFLAC patches finally motivated me to finish the patch
23:07:04linuxstb__I never looked at the details.
23:07:06rotatoryes, it was very helpful
23:07:28rotatorit includes an actaully intelligent seek routine
23:08:17tomalHey, long time ago I posted a patch (FS #5857) that controls what goes to IRAM depending on a target
23:09:05rotatornow it's down to <10 seeks for seeking in 30+ minute files w/o a seektable rather than 100+ seeks in libFLAC 1.1.2
23:10:00tomalI need it for my ifp port. May someone look at it and say if it looks ok?
23:10:03rashertomal: Sounded like a very good idea to me, but I don't know enough that my opinion matters
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23:11:19rasherIt should be useful for other ports as well, since there are differing iram sizes outside of the ifp
23:12:40 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
23:12:51tomalWe should just agree on macros names and things like where to put the defaults
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23:16:26 Quit lee-qid_ ("Trillian (")
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23:25:19linuxstb__tomal: It seems you've stunned everyone into silence...
23:26:00tomalOr was my patch so boring that everyone fell asleep
23:27:07peturZzzzZzzz :p
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23:36:38markuntomal: do you plan to move the ifp to the target tree?
23:37:22tomalmarkun: Yes, I have got a patch from JDGordon
23:38:06tomalmarkun: I have to test it, but some recent changes don't work on ifp
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23:39:42tomalmarkun: The patch looks quite good though (FS #6273). I would just remove some charger related functions (ifp doesn't have a charger)
23:44:32jhMikeSpetur: do you think it useful at all to have an option in recording to turn on digital output when recording even if the normal setting is off?
23:45:18peturyou mean recording analog and monitoring digital?
23:46:08jhMikeSrecording anything and monitoring digital but not having to set it on for playback to have it on for recording
23:46:47peturI don't have an h1x0 so maybe ask amiconn or so...
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23:46:57peturI gtg anyway
23:47:15jhMikeSlater. Maybe I'll post in the forum
23:47:21peturdo that
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23:53:15 Quit GreyFoux ("Le vrai danger, c'est quand les hommes penseront comme les ordinateurs")
23:55:52 Quit lukaswayne9 ("Ex-Chat")
23:56:13jhMikeSThought of another thing: I always save my config as the same file and would like to just like a shortcut so I can save as rockbox.cfg or something every time instead of getting a different numbered filename. There should be a Save to rockbox.cfg or something imo to make it easier to do a quick save of settings without creating another file or having to change it.
23:58:05jhMikeSWondering if anyone would find that sort of thing useful
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23:58:18jhMikeSbesides myself :)
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