| 00:00:18 | bit-man | I don't at what parity, buad, etc |
| 00:00:42 | rasher | Hey, the h120 (maybe others) has a serial port onboard |
| 00:01:55 | rasher | I doubt you could plug serial into the remote port and be able to read anything from it |
| 00:02:06 | | Join Blackvulcano [0] (n=yadida@f18209.upc-f.chello.nl) |
| 00:02:13 | Blackvulcano | Dudesss |
| 00:02:17 | bit-man | I'm thinkin the same thing |
| 00:02:28 | bit-man | I wish I had a background in hardware ;) |
| 00:02:48 | bit-man | H10 Remote Control provides Power ON/OFF, Play, Pause, Previous, Next, and Volume control functionalities |
| 00:03:17 | | Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) |
| 00:03:20 | Blackvulcano | people here know stuff about albumart? running latest rockbox kosh build on the H320 |
| 00:03:23 | | Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@adsl-75-46-164-120.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:04:09 | Blackvulcano | I got albumart running for the Icatcher theme but cat's get it up for the grey't theme for some reason |
| 00:04:34 | Blackvulcano | I got the .wps right here and I need some help with the tagline or something to get it to work |
| 00:04:50 | | Part tvelocity ("Αποχώρησε") |
| 00:05:26 | rasher | I have no idea about album art. |
| 00:05:35 | Blackvulcano | bah |
| 00:05:36 | rasher | And little about wps in general |
| 00:05:51 | Blackvulcano | hmm |
| 00:06:03 | bit-man | rasher you're worthless ;) |
| 00:06:06 | bit-man | j/k |
| 00:06:14 | rasher | Why don't you ask the wps author? |
| 00:06:27 | Blackvulcano | cuz the theme is like 4 months old |
| 00:06:28 | Blackvulcano | :P |
| 00:06:33 | rasher | Or ask in the Kosh thread on misticriver |
| 00:06:47 | rasher | They're more likely to know |
| 00:06:55 | rasher | People here generally run vanillar Rockbox |
| 00:06:57 | Blackvulcano | I was hoping maybe one of you guys had a quick fix |
| 00:07:53 | | Quit voyeur ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 00:08:57 | * | linuxstb wonders why the album art patch author never comes here to discuss the patch... |
| 00:09:09 | | Nick polizei is now known as Rondom (n=Rondom@p54AEF711.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:09:48 | | Join Rob2222_ [0] (n=Miranda@p54B16DE9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:10:06 | rasher | I do believe lowlight now has to finish my simulator patch. |
| 00:10:18 | rasher | Hm, he left |
| 00:10:30 | rasher | Guess not, then |
| 00:10:38 | | Quit Rondom (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:14:01 | | Join Rondom [0] (n=Rondom@p54AEDB3C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:14:24 | | Quit matsl ("Leaving") |
| 00:15:23 | | Quit Rondom (Client Quit) |
| 00:17:47 | | Quit ender` (" Pets are better than children because: 11. If they get pregnant, you can sell their children.") |
| 00:22:36 | | Quit bit-man ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 00:25:39 | | Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:26:08 | | Join Quelsaruk [0] (n=kvirc@102.pool85-61-3.dynamic.uni2.es) |
| 00:26:12 | Quelsaruk | hi hi |
| 00:26:28 | amiconn | lo lo |
| 00:26:34 | Quelsaruk | :) |
| 00:27:00 | | Join MadDog011 [0] (n=MadDog01@cable-87-116-165-106.dynamic.sbb.co.yu) |
| 00:27:08 | | Part MadDog011 |
| 00:27:22 | Quelsaruk | how's everything? it's been a long time since i last visited the chat |
| 00:31:51 | | Quit CriamosAndy ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: www.XLhost.de )") |
| 00:33:34 | Nimdae | if i copy my ipod drive contents to a temp location, format the drive fat32, then copy the data back, will it still work? |
| 00:34:10 | | Quit Blackvulcano (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:37:46 | linuxstb | Yes, Rockbox will be perfectly happy if you do that. |
| 00:42:33 | Nimdae | ok |
| 00:42:43 | Nimdae | i don't think i'll be sad to lose the apple firmware tbh |
| 00:42:56 | Nimdae | just having some filesystem odities |
| 00:47:44 | | Join obo [0] (n=obo@82-46-82-224.cable.ubr02.trow.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 00:48:56 | Nimdae | fsck wouldn't fix it either (actually kept segfaulting), hoping i can even grab the data off...hoping the drive didn't die... |
| 00:51:01 | JdGordon | amiconn: you still around? |
| 00:52:26 | Nimdae | there is a hidden partition on the drive, is thisnormal? |
| 00:52:31 | JdGordon | yes |
| 00:53:40 | Nimdae | ok |
| 00:54:18 | Nimdae | what is that? |
| 00:54:34 | JdGordon | the apple firmware iirc |
| 00:56:06 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 00:56:45 | amiconn | JdGordon: yes |
| 00:57:04 | JdGordon | how often should ata_mmc call the callbacks? |
| 00:57:07 | JdGordon | every 15min? |
| 00:57:10 | amiconn | Nimdae: It's the firmware partition. It contains the apple firmware and/or the rockbox bootloader |
| 00:58:16 | | Quit damaki (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:58:21 | amiconn | Why use a special timer? Why not just when something else gets written? |
| 00:58:49 | amiconn | It would replicate the behaviour of the standard ata driver this way |
| 00:59:06 | | Quit TeaSeaLancs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:59:11 | | Quit obo ("bye") |
| 00:59:38 | amiconn | Written or read, of course |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:17 | | Part Quelsaruk ("Time makes no sense") |
| 01:00:18 | | Quit Febs ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 01:00:19 | JdGordon | you want to call the callbacks from ata_flush? |
| 01:00:30 | amiconn | No, why? |
| 01:00:36 | amiconn | The mmc thread could do it |
| 01:00:56 | amiconn | Calling from ata_flush could be problematic |
| 01:01:04 | JdGordon | mmc thread is only there for HOTSWAP, unless thats always... |
| 01:01:45 | JdGordon | that thread only deals with SYS_USB_CONNECTED ans SYS_MMC_*.. what event do i use to call the callbacks? |
| 01:02:01 | amiconn | How do you do it in ata.c? |
| 01:02:09 | JdGordon | when its idle |
| 01:02:59 | amiconn | hrrrrrmmm |
| 01:02:59 | JdGordon | i suppose i could use last_disk_activity... |
| 01:04:23 | amiconn | last_disk_activity is updated with every write or read |
| 01:05:09 | amiconn | The tricky part is that the notify callbacks cause accesses themselves |
| 01:05:26 | | Join wuwei [0] (n=not@client-82-28-2-235.brhm.adsl.virgin.net) |
| 01:05:56 | JdGordon | the callback routine can be called twice |
| 01:06:02 | wuwei | Hello? SOS! I cant turn off my rockbox (Iriver H340) |
| 01:06:08 | JdGordon | it NULLs allt he callbacks before calling them |
| 01:06:36 | JdGordon | wuwei: use the reset pin |
| 01:06:58 | JdGordon | amiconn: I think waiting 10s after last_disk_activity before calling the cbs would be safe? |
| 01:06:59 | amiconn | That sounds like accesses will be bogged down |
| 01:07:05 | wuwei | oooh jdGordon u legend thanks....searches for reset pib |
| 01:07:09 | amiconn | hmm |
| 01:07:10 | | Join damaki [0] (n=Chocolat@ALille-151-1-17-131.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 01:07:13 | JdGordon | under the mic |
| 01:07:27 | amiconn | What about shutdowns? |
| 01:07:35 | amiconn | (and usb connects, etc) |
| 01:07:43 | JdGordon | linus reckons we dont worry about that at all |
| 01:07:54 | JdGordon | thread in the dev ml |
| 01:08:24 | amiconn | Imho the callbacks must be called before shutdown |
| 01:08:32 | Nimdae | crap, the drive in my ipod just threw an I/O error |
| 01:08:35 | amiconn | ...and before usb connect |
| 01:08:40 | Nimdae | this isn't good |
| 01:08:46 | JdGordon | he reckons let the cb owners deal with it, but i agree with you |
| 01:09:17 | | Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:09:27 | | Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC") |
| 01:09:40 | | Quit Tempis (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 01:09:50 | | Join Tempis [0] (i=Tempis@cpe-24-160-16-107.sw.res.rr.com) |
| 01:09:52 | amiconn | The whole purpose of these callbacks is that the callback owners don't need to deal with monitoring ata activity themselvs |
| 01:10:01 | JdGordon | that would mean i wouldnt have to put " extern bool flush_config_block_callback(void); /* from apps/settings.c */ " in firmware/powermgmnt.c |
| 01:10:09 | | Quit wuwei () |
| 01:10:29 | JdGordon | Nimdae: is it still under warrenty? |
| 01:10:34 | amiconn | Currently there are several places which do so, and that's bad |
| 01:11:18 | amiconn | A monitoring thread might easily miss a spinup, or might catch it a little too late, and spinup again immediately after spindown |
| 01:11:37 | amiconn | The ata driver *knows* when the disk spins up |
| 01:12:12 | JdGordon | I tihnk the ata thread should call the cbs and any owning threads should call them also, whichever calls first will remove it so this is safe |
| 01:12:14 | amiconn | So the centralised callback mechanism saves code _and_ is more efficient |
| 01:12:51 | amiconn | I wouldn't want the owning thread to do redundant work. It's a waste |
| 01:13:24 | JdGordon | yes, but that thread could "exit" before ata, which means the cb could cause problems |
| 01:13:43 | amiconn | The callback runs in ata thread context, doesn't it? |
| 01:13:49 | JdGordon | yeah |
| 01:14:05 | amiconn | So the owning thread isn't involved |
| 01:14:17 | | Part Paul_the_Nerd |
| 01:14:20 | amiconn | ...other than it registers the callback. |
| 01:14:33 | JdGordon | unless the callback puts an event on the "owning" thread.. like what how the buffer filling works |
| 01:14:51 | JdGordon | thats a bad example because it reads instead of writes, but ti could work both ways |
| 01:15:14 | amiconn | The buffer filling is a special case. It doesn't need to happen at shutdown, obviously |
| 01:16:57 | amiconn | Btw, ata_idle_notify_init() can be simplified |
| 01:17:19 | amiconn | memset(ata_idle_notify_funcs, 0, sizeof(ata_idle_notify_funcs)); |
| 01:17:24 | JdGordon | I tihnk I want to change the unregister function to optionally call the function when its unregistered |
| 01:21:38 | amiconn | Hmm, in the ata.c callback implementation there are some things which are looking suspicious to me... |
| 01:22:17 | Nimdae | wow, it had an i/o error then the drive was no longer accessible, rebooted ipod, reconnected to computer, was working again |
| 01:22:33 | Nimdae | does this sound like a dying drive as much to yall as it does to me? |
| 01:22:56 | amiconn | What happens to Q_SLEEP when a callback is registered? |
| 01:23:39 | amiconn | Another thing is that the callbacks are only called when the ata thread decides the disk should go to sleep |
| 01:23:53 | amiconn | ...so it effectively extends the disk spinning time |
| 01:24:22 | JdGordon | it works as expected... if the cb does any disk access then the shutdown timer starts again... and no, they are called every 5 sec while the disk is idle but spinning |
| 01:24:24 | amiconn | Imho the ata thread should start calling the callbacks if the disk is spinning and there is a short idle period |
| 01:24:39 | amiconn | (1 or 2 seconds) |
| 01:24:48 | JdGordon | else if (TIME_AFTER(current_tick, last_callback_run+(HZ*5))) <- change that to 2? |
| 01:25:40 | amiconn | Hmm. Guess I would need to see live behaviour of that code, both on swcodec and hwcodec |
| 01:26:06 | JdGordon | ive watched the logf output and it looks ok |
| 01:26:27 | JdGordon | but atm only 2 things are registered.. |
| 01:26:28 | amiconn | The fact that callback disk activity restarts the spindown timer is what I am concerned about |
| 01:26:35 | amiconn | It will break Q_SLEEP |
| 01:26:44 | JdGordon | no, it will delay it.. not break it |
| 01:26:58 | amiconn | case Q_SLEEP: |
| 01:26:59 | amiconn | last_disk_activity = current_tick - sleep_timeout + (HZ/2); |
| 01:27:20 | JdGordon | oh yeah, your right |
| 01:27:24 | amiconn | That adjusts last_disk_activity backwards to make it spin down half a second later |
| 01:28:03 | JdGordon | case Q_SLEEP: |
| 01:28:03 | JdGordon | call_ata_idle_notifys(); |
| 01:28:04 | JdGordon | last_disk_activity = current_tick - sleep_timeout + (HZ/2); |
| 01:28:04 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK JdGordon |
| 01:28:04 | JdGordon | break; |
| 01:28:05 | amiconn | ..but then the sleep timeout will cause the callbacks to be called, and that resets last_disk_activity the standard way |
| 01:29:10 | JdGordon | only the plugins call ata_sleep anyway |
| 01:29:21 | amiconn | nope |
| 01:29:30 | JdGordon | oh, and mpeg.c |
| 01:29:32 | amiconn | The playback engine does it too after rebuffering |
| 01:29:47 | JdGordon | no, that was removed.. it defeated the purpose of this |
| 01:30:00 | amiconn | ? |
| 01:30:02 | JdGordon | but if they are called before sleeping then it can go back |
| 01:30:49 | amiconn | Another 2 suspicious things: |
| 01:30:52 | JdGordon | apart from user activity, buffering was the only way the disk would spin up.. so ata_sleep meant they were never called... but with what you said before im all confused |
| 01:31:25 | amiconn | (1) The callbacks are called every 5 seconds while the disk is spinning, regardless of other activity, which might be more important and shouldn't be disturbed |
| 01:31:59 | amiconn | The callbacks should only be called if there is a short period of inactivity |
| 01:32:43 | amiconn | Of course that doesn't guarantee that subsequent activity won't be delayed, but it guarantees that the callbacks don't get in the way of continuous activity |
| 01:33:24 | amiconn | And finally, I don't understand why the disk is only sent to sleep when there were no callbacks to call |
| 01:33:25 | JdGordon | what about changing that to checking if the ata_mtx has been unlocked for 2 s? |
| 01:33:56 | amiconn | Hmm, that makes sense if the callbacks are asynchronous |
| 01:34:48 | amiconn | Asynchronous callbacks are indeed a problem |
| 01:35:27 | amiconn | hrmph |
| 01:35:35 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 01:35:35 | * | amiconn doesn't like that \: |
| 01:37:21 | amiconn | Removing ata_sleep() from playback wastes energy |
| 01:37:39 | JdGordon | then the cb run has to be put into the Q_SLEEP case |
| 01:37:52 | JdGordon | before adjusting alst_disk_access |
| 01:37:58 | amiconn | Yes, but that forbids asynchronous callbacks |
| 01:38:17 | JdGordon | like the rebuffering? |
| 01:38:35 | amiconn | Otherwise one 2 2 things might happen depending on the timing |
| 01:38:40 | JdGordon | buffer refilling i mean |
| 01:38:42 | amiconn | *one of 2 |
| 01:39:24 | amiconn | (1) if the callback triggers action fast enough, the action will happen before spindown, but still kill the Q_SLEEP effect |
| 01:40:04 | amiconn | (2) if the callback triggers too slow, the diskk will already be spun down, and then spin up again - even worse |
| 01:40:18 | amiconn | I think we must not allow asynchronous callbacks |
| 01:41:48 | JdGordon | (if im getting the async bit worng tell me...) the only async cb atm is the buffer reffiling, which checks ata_is_active() before doin the actual refilling, so i tihnk its still safe |
| 01:42:13 | JdGordon | and then that would call ata_sleep again, so the sleep still works |
| 01:42:36 | amiconn | Hmm |
| 01:43:41 | amiconn | AT least that special case should be well documented, how and why asynchronous operation works there, and that other callbacks must not do this |
| 01:44:29 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p54B16B4A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:44:33 | JdGordon | I was going to document the usage anyway, so I can make a note about how async cb's should work |
| 01:45:36 | amiconn | Asynchronous callbacks _might_ work correctly if there is nothing that yields between the check for ata activity and the actual operation |
| 01:45:55 | JdGordon | any thread that does that is just stupid |
| 01:46:13 | JdGordon | rb cant swap threads unless yield or sleep is called right? |
| 01:46:35 | amiconn | Yes |
| 01:46:43 | JdGordon | so it shouldnt be a problem |
| 01:47:09 | amiconn | But some functions perform a yield without the developer expecting it |
| 01:47:20 | amiconn | ...like lcd_update() on ipod video |
| 01:47:46 | JdGordon | but if your checking ata_is_active, its safe to assume your going to access it now, and not draw first |
| 01:49:20 | amiconn | That was only an example |
| 01:49:48 | amiconn | There might be more functions which yield unexpectedly... so one has to be careful |
| 01:51:29 | JdGordon | Is it possible to check if a mutex is locked without pausing the thread waiting for it? |
| 01:51:57 | JdGordon | or i just check the mutex.locked vairable :p |
| 01:56:55 | JdGordon | amiconn: http://rafb.net/paste/results/7eAlmb85.html ? or continue this in the morning? |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:16 | | Quit Rob2222_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:14:21 | | Quit Captain_A (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:17:24 | | Join Zeph [0] (n=saaa@89.0.184.10.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 02:17:36 | | Nick Zeph is now known as ice (n=saaa@89.0.184.10.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 02:17:51 | | Nick ice is now known as [iCE] (n=saaa@89.0.184.10.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 02:18:12 | | Nick [iCE] is now known as [Zeph] (n=saaa@89.0.184.10.dynamic.barak-online.net) |
| 02:18:33 | [Zeph] | hey, is anyone here? |
| 02:19:22 | dan_a | Hey [Zeph], some people are |
| 02:19:32 | [Zeph] | great :] i have a question |
| 02:19:39 | [Zeph] | i just installed rockbox on my h10 |
| 02:19:57 | [Zeph] | and the scroling is funny |
| 02:20:17 | [Zeph] | is it supposed to be like that? completely different.. i cant drag my finger on the touchpad anymore |
| 02:20:30 | dan_a | What do you mean by funny? |
| 02:20:31 | [Zeph] | plus i found a bug in the snake2 game |
| 02:21:10 | [Zeph] | as i just said. cant drag my finger on the touchpad |
| 02:21:43 | [Zeph] | top to bottom.. only single pressing or leaving my finger on the top\bottom |
| 02:21:59 | | Join TeaSea [0] (n=thunderc@82.152.172.59) |
| 02:22:16 | [Zeph] | do u understand what im saying..? kinda hard to explain |
| 02:22:21 | [Zeph] | scrolling is just not comfortable. |
| 02:22:51 | dan_a | I don't have an H10, but I thought that the scrollpad was working properly on it. |
| 02:23:09 | dan_a | barrywardell is probably the best person to speak to about that. |
| 02:23:54 | [Zeph] | cant see him here |
| 02:24:11 | dan_a | He's often around during the daytime and the evening (GMT) |
| 02:24:32 | [Zeph] | okie |
| 02:24:43 | [Zeph] | and the album cover picture thingy wont work also |
| 02:24:57 | | Part pixelma |
| 02:25:14 | [Zeph] | i named the .bmp file same as the album's name in id3tag and put it in the album's folder |
| 02:25:15 | dan_a | The album art is not an official part of Rockbox yet |
| 02:25:16 | [Zeph] | and nadda |
| 02:25:21 | [Zeph] | ohhh |
| 02:25:28 | [Zeph] | so i dont even have it installed |
| 02:25:28 | [Zeph] | hehe |
| 02:25:32 | [Zeph] | problem solved |
| 02:25:37 | [Zeph] | i thought it was in there |
| 02:27:07 | dan_a | For the snake2 bug, the best thing is probably to file a report in the bug tracker: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/index.php |
| 02:27:24 | | Quit funky ("leaving") |
| 02:27:33 | [Zeph] | cool |
| 02:27:39 | [Zeph] | and another thingy if you dont mind |
| 02:28:06 | [Zeph] | there was this comparison chart between what the original firmware has to offer and what rockbox has to offer, and i cant find it |
| 02:28:13 | [Zeph] | i dont remember where i saw it, do u know it? |
| 02:28:52 | dan_a | This one: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/FeatureComparison ? |
| 02:29:04 | [Zeph] | yes |
| 02:29:07 | [Zeph] | haha you rock |
| 02:29:40 | [Zeph] | im done and off to sleep.. ill try talkin to that barry guy you mentioned later |
| 02:29:46 | [Zeph] | thnx! |
| 02:29:56 | dan_a | You're welcome |
| 02:30:02 | dan_a | I'm gone too. |
| 02:30:07 | | Quit dan_a () |
| 02:49:45 | | Quit EspeonEefi ("Leaving") |
| 02:56:10 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 03:50:19 | | Join webguest45 [0] (i=473a5360@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session) |
| 03:50:53 | webguest45 | could somebody compile me a rockbox build... i have given up after trying numerous times both cygwin and debian |
| 03:51:14 | webguest45 | i can patch all the files.... just the build comes out around 400 kb and without a .ipod file |
| 03:51:29 | webguest45 | (szorry i forgot to mention this is for my ipod) |
| 03:52:09 | | Quit midkay (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 03:54:08 | | Quit rakslice () |
| 03:54:26 | aliask | webguest45: A better long term solution would be to work out the small problems, and I can help you do that |
| 03:55:10 | webguest45 | ok thanks |
| 03:55:34 | aliask | Can you build a clean cvs? |
| 03:55:36 | webguest45 | do you want me to list the patches i applied? |
| 03:55:44 | webguest45 | haven't tried |
| 03:56:04 | aliask | Better to work out the kinks before adding more complications. |
| 03:56:11 | webguest45 | ok |
| 03:56:17 | webguest45 | will i need to redownload from CVS? |
| 03:56:39 | aliask | Yep |
| 03:57:05 | webguest45 | what do i type to go up a directory? |
| 03:57:11 | aliask | cd .. |
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| 04:00 |
| 04:00:24 | | Join RoC_MM [0] (i=dragon@c-66-177-58-16.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 04:00:59 | JdGordon | oh farking hell |
| 04:01:03 | webguest45 | ok its downloading i had some directory issues |
| 04:02:09 | aliask | JdGordon: ? |
| 04:02:17 | JdGordon | i stuffed the build again :p |
| 04:02:23 | aliask | Nice :) |
| 04:03:25 | aliask | webguest45: Once you've got the clean CVS make a new folder in the same folder that has "apps" "firmware" etc. Call it "compile" or something. Go into that directory and type "../tools/configure" and follow the prompts. |
| 04:03:47 | JdGordon | and dont bother untill i fix this :p |
| 04:03:59 | aliask | Oh right, yes, that too :) |
| 04:04:42 | webguest45 | does it matter that i'm using an older build (october 15)... this is for patch compatibility |
| 04:04:58 | aliask | Do you mean an old CVS? |
| 04:05:06 | webguest45 | yes |
| 04:05:53 | * | scorche watches as JdGordon racks up a higher score with every commit |
| 04:06:04 | JdGordon | im still well behind jhMikeS |
| 04:06:19 | scorche | true |
| 04:06:25 | scorche | but it is going up |
| 04:06:26 | scorche | ;) |
| 04:06:40 | scorche | btw, aliask: you owe me another beer |
| 04:06:42 | JdGordon | ok, all fixed |
| 04:06:44 | scorche | i was right =) |
| 04:07:16 | aliask | scorche: Howso? |
| 04:07:27 | aliask | webguest45: An old CVS shouldn't matter |
| 04:07:32 | | Quit blue_lizard (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:07:34 | | Quit midkay ("*poff*") |
| 04:07:36 | * | scorche points to the box sitting on his lap |
| 04:07:42 | | Join blue_lizard [0] (n=blue_liz@p54987497.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 04:09:06 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: can't seem get an answer on the all time record score. anyone know it? |
| 04:09:22 | scorche | you were pretty damn high.. |
| 04:09:25 | JdGordon | i dont... we should do a wiki page |
| 04:09:26 | jhMikeS | true |
| 04:09:43 | jhMikeS | Anyone ever top 10k? |
| 04:10:00 | JdGordon | not that i rememeber |
| 04:10:43 | jhMikeS | shoulda left out more stuff :P |
| 04:10:54 | aliask | scorche: Wow that was actaully earlier than amazon said :) |
| 04:11:26 | webguest45 | aliask: well it seems to be compiling so far |
| 04:11:27 | scorche | aliask: i told you it would be here today ;) |
| 04:11:41 | aliask | Excellent (to both of you) :) |
| 04:12:43 | webguest45 | aliask: while its compiling i'll ask you... will I need to go patch by patch and compile it to see if it creates problems? |
| 04:12:45 | scorche | ew...it has a start button |
| 04:13:13 | | Join menosm_ [0] (n=chatzill@user-11fa1s8.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 04:13:26 | aliask | webguest45: Well, if the patches are causing problems, then that would be a good way to figure out which one it is |
| 04:14:01 | | Quit ScoTTie (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:14:37 | webguest45 | aliask: the patches I would like to apply would be the two multifont patches, customline, custom position, and custom display position, album art, bmp resize, and kalthares 5.5g playlist patch |
| 04:14:46 | * | jhMikeS is organizing firmware/sources big time |
| 04:15:04 | webguest45 | there is an already prebuilt build on the forums, but I need the custom position patches to allow jClix |
| 04:15:31 | webguest45 | aliask: so a clean CVS built correctly |
| 04:15:35 | | Join TrueJournals [0] (n=aimjourn@c-24-12-147-61.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 04:16:11 | webguest45 | aliask: the question I'm asking is that would I be able to find the problem before compiling it? |
| 04:16:21 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: awesome :D |
| 04:16:25 | aliask | webguest45: Did the patches apply cleanly? |
| 04:16:52 | JdGordon | oh farking hell.... |
| 04:16:54 | JdGordon | still red |
| 04:17:00 | webguest45 | most did |
| 04:17:00 | * | JdGordon is glad sweden is asleep :D |
| 04:17:07 | webguest45 | i think one had an error? |
| 04:17:29 | webguest45 | lol is it possible to 'unpatch' before compiling if you realize and error happened? |
| 04:19:08 | aliask | webguest45: You can reverse a patch, but I don't know how well that works if the patch didn't apply cleanly (use the -r switch to reverse a patch) |
| 04:20:20 | webguest45 | im not able to download from CVS anymore... |
| 04:20:25 | JdGordon | awesome... jhMikeS's massive recording patch is about to be sent into the oblivion! |
| 04:21:30 | | Quit menosm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 04:21:31 | * | scorche giggles a bit to find out that JdGordon's score really is going up with every commit |
| 04:22:25 | | Join Soap [0] (n=Clean@unaffiliated/s0ap) |
| 04:24:18 | jhMikeS | heh |
| 04:24:18 | webguest45 | vm |
| 04:24:19 | webguest45 | nvm |
| 04:24:57 | | Quit webguest45 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 04:24:59 | jhMikeS | may you hit the 10000 mark :D...good luck! |
| 04:25:06 | | Join webguest45 [0] (i=473a5360@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-2b998d92c1730356) |
| 04:27:46 | JdGordon | back to green :D |
| 04:28:02 | aliask | Grats! :p |
| 04:32:31 | | Part TrueJournals |
| 04:34:34 | | Join ScoTTie [0] (n=scott@unaffiliated/scottie) |
| 04:38:37 | | Join Davide-NYC [0] (n=chatzill@user-12hdtm5.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 04:39:03 | Davide-NYC | jhMikeS: did you see my post on the forums? |
| 04:39:13 | webguest45 | aliask: i think i've narrowed it down to the font patches |
| 04:39:46 | webguest45 | im getting things like 'error: struct user_settings has no member named 'font_file' |
| 04:40:30 | aliask | webguest45: Looks like you'll have to apply the font patches manually then |
| 04:40:46 | aliask | Open the .patch files up, and it should be pretty self-explanatory |
| 04:41:45 | webguest45 | im no developer... but these patches look a lot like flash's actionscript |
| 04:43:31 | aliask | The patches are simple replacement instructions, there's a line number where it starts looking, then a line with a - in front to show what to delete, then a line with a + to indicate what to insert |
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| 04:47:34 | | Join Covert [0] (i=c86c0c6c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session) |
| 04:48:19 | webguest45 | upon further reading (i'm still not sure I understand) the font patches I wanted to apply depended on custom display patch, so I patched them in the wrong order |
| 04:51:28 | jhMikeS | Davide-NYC: yes |
| 04:51:38 | Davide-NYC | wadayatink? |
| 04:53:03 | | Quit Covert ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 04:53:34 | jhMikeS | Davide-NYC: I'm thinking it's a bit strange to hide stuff "behind". I'm not sure I quite get it yet. |
| 04:54:20 | | Quit Soap ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]") |
| 04:54:22 | jhMikeS | I get the adding a line part to the WRS to display the live sample rate |
| 04:55:05 | jhMikeS | There definitely needs to be an indictation if things aren't matching up |
| 04:55:26 | Davide-NYC | absolutely |
| 04:56:03 | | Join Soap [0] (n=Clean@cpe-65-189-128-141.columbus.res.rr.com) |
| 04:56:14 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 04:57:06 | jhMikeS | Does that have to show up on the remote? |
| 04:57:16 | Davide-NYC | otp brb |
| 04:57:30 | * | jhMikeS doesn't think serious recording should be done with the remote |
| 04:59:55 | webguest45 | aliask: how would I manually add lcd-16bit.rej to lcd-16bit.c |
| 05:00 |
| 05:00:28 | | Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay) |
| 05:01:18 | aliask | webguest45: Open it up in a text editor and see what didn't get patched correctly, then manually edit those lines (it could take a while, but it's the most thorough way) |
| 05:02:16 | webguest45 | .. how do I find line 750,756? |
| 05:02:38 | | Quit menosm_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 05:03:21 | aliask | That'd be line 750 |
| 05:03:25 | aliask | (I think) |
| 05:03:55 | webguest45 | ohh |
| 05:04:03 | webguest45 | so its lines 750 and ends at 756 |
| 05:04:16 | webguest45 | there is two sets of info, one is a - and the other is a + |
| 05:04:24 | webguest45 | so I search for the - |
| 05:04:29 | webguest45 | and then replace it with the + |
| 05:04:30 | webguest45 | ? |
| 05:04:32 | aliask | Yep |
| 05:05:15 | webguest45 | wait on the linux it says .o |
| 05:05:18 | webguest45 | i only have a .c |
| 05:05:23 | | Join Paul_the_Nerd [0] (n=Llorean@cpe-66-69-210-194.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 05:05:43 | aliask | The linux? |
| 05:06:14 | webguest45 | the terminal in linux |
| 05:06:27 | aliask | What about the .o? |
| 05:06:42 | webguest45 | i don't have a lcd 16bit.o file |
| 05:06:46 | webguest45 | i only have a .c? |
| 05:07:02 | JdGordon | is the patch looking for a .o? |
| 05:07:03 | aliask | That's fine, it's talking about the object file. You don't need to worry about that |
| 05:07:29 | webguest45 | ok |
| 05:07:30 | webguest45 | thanks |
| 05:12:06 | webguest45 | the next reject file doesn't have any minus... |
| 05:12:35 | aliask | Just pluses? |
| 05:13:19 | webguest45 | yes, but one section has neither? |
| 05:13:19 | | Quit midkay ("*poff*") |
| 05:13:43 | webguest45 | ahh is that possibly the reason it didn't work? |
| 05:13:49 | aliask | Just pluses should be pretty self explanatory, and I guess you should just ignore that section |
| 05:13:56 | | Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay) |
| 05:14:01 | aliask | See if it compiles if you just ignore that part |
| 05:18:20 | jhMikeS | Davide-NYC: I have to go to bed. Talk to you later...'night. |
| 05:18:23 | | Part jhMikeS |
| 05:18:44 | Davide-NYC | good night |
| 05:19:57 | | Quit |AhIoRoS| ("Abandonando, see you http://ahioros.homelinux.net") |
| 05:20:40 | webguest45 | ahh thanks aliask for the help but im gonna have to quit for the nite |
| 05:20:44 | | Quit RoC_MM (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 05:20:49 | webguest45 | I appreciate the help and I'll continue tommorow |
| 05:20:58 | aliask | No worries, good luck tomorrow |
| 05:23:02 | | Quit webguest45 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 05:32:42 | | Quit Davide-NYC ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 1.5.0.7/2006090918]") |
| 05:37:30 | | Join RoC_MM [0] (i=dragon@c-66-177-58-16.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 05:39:42 | Nimdae | is there a command to eject a usb device in linux? |
| 05:39:47 | Nimdae | or just umount it? |
| 05:44:00 | JdGordon | umount <mount point> |
| 05:44:12 | JdGordon | e.g umount /mnt/usb |
| 05:44:15 | Nimdae | right |
| 05:44:38 | Nimdae | but like on my desktop, i can "eject" it, which puts the ipod in a mode that is "ok" to disconnect, whereas umount doesn't do that |
| 05:44:58 | JdGordon | there is a shortcut on your desktop with eject? |
| 05:45:05 | Nimdae | shortcut to the ipod |
| 05:45:10 | Nimdae | dclick to open |
| 05:45:14 | JdGordon | ok, use that |
| 05:45:17 | Nimdae | rick click brings up a context menu that includes eject |
| 05:45:25 | Nimdae | it's not plugged into my desktop, that's at home ;) |
| 05:45:36 | Nimdae | i brought it to work to transfer some stuff |
| 05:45:41 | Nimdae | and found fs errors |
| 05:45:47 | JdGordon | then use umount |
| 05:45:56 | Nimdae | ok |
| 05:47:57 | | Quit [sellout] (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 05:49:05 | Nimdae | actually, i just discovered the eject command, heh |
| 05:49:19 | Nimdae | i'll see if that works after i'm done restoring the ipod |
| 05:50:36 | | Join [sellout] [0] (n=sellout@69.241.206.171) |
| 05:59:53 | | Join elljay [0] (i=lj@72.20.14.98) |
| 05:59:59 | elljay | does rockbox support flac? |
| 06:00 |
| 06:00:02 | | Quit rasher (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 06:00:08 | JdGordon | yes |
| 06:00:11 | elljay | sweet |
| 06:00:13 | elljay | thanks |
| 06:13:45 | | Join EspeonEefi [0] (i=espeonee@STRATTON-FOUR-THIRTY-NINE.MIT.EDU) |
| 06:32:30 | Nimdae | eject command seems to work great, yay |
| 06:41:19 | | Quit minDscrm (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 06:53:32 | | Quit rotator ("zzzzzzzzz") |
| 06:56:15 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 07:00 |
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| 08:00 |
| 08:00:59 | amiconn | morning |
| 08:01:34 | aliask | It's been quiet here today |
| 08:03:20 | | Quit dpassen1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 08:04:07 | amiconn | JdGordon: I didn't test it yet (will do as soon as I have a little time), but the code in ata_mmc.c looks really nasty |
| 08:04:39 | amiconn | It doesn't look like it yields at all... |
| 08:05:14 | | Join MarcoPolo [0] (n=MarcoPol@virlet.rez-gif.supelec.fr) |
| 08:06:29 | amiconn | Yep, total freeze already at bootup |
| 08:16:45 | Nimdae | guess i will avoid that update for now |
| 08:16:58 | amiconn | That affects the Ondio only |
| 08:17:10 | Nimdae | oh |
| 08:18:32 | amiconn | Well, I wonder why JdGordon doesn't let others who have the target test such low level changes before commit... :( |
| 08:19:08 | amiconn | But it looks like the fix is relatively simple |
| 08:20:53 | | Quit Ribs ("eh eh ehhhh!") |
| 08:21:29 | | Quit RoC_MM ("Leaving") |
| 08:31:20 | JdGordon | amiconn: hmm... doh! |
| 08:33:01 | JdGordon | oh.. damn.. the sleep(HZ/4); in ata.c (which i was copying) is like 2 lines off the screen which is why it was missed |
| 08:33:02 | amiconn | Fix committed.... |
| 08:33:19 | amiconn | The first while loop is quite unelegant, at least for use in ata_mmc |
| 08:33:39 | JdGordon | how would you have rathered it? |
| 08:33:48 | amiconn | I changed the queue_wait into a queue_wait_w_tmo, and added the idle monitor to the default: case |
| 08:34:01 | JdGordon | I wanted to get that working at least semi-properly so the setting saving doesnt thrash the disk |
| 08:34:03 | | Nick [sellout] is now known as Your_Mom (n=sellout@69.241.206.171) |
| 08:34:14 | JdGordon | ok, thats a bit ncier |
| 08:34:25 | | Nick Your_Mom is now known as A_Fat_Slob (n=sellout@69.241.206.171) |
| 08:34:34 | amiconn | The monitor itself also isn't very elegant |
| 08:34:35 | | Nick A_Fat_Slob is now known as [sellout] (n=sellout@69.241.206.171) |
| 08:34:46 | amiconn | It may easily miss activity |
| 08:35:09 | amiconn | Since the timeout is that long it's not critical |
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| 08:47:00 | * | JdGordon fears he will have to start the menu recoding patch from the begginging to figure out its problems :'( |
| 08:47:25 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
| 08:47:26 | | Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 08:49:35 | * | amiconn wonders hwo the current idle monitor would behave on an 8MB-modded Ondio |
| 08:50:02 | amiconn | With 8MB, a full rebuffer takes significantly longer than 10 seconds |
| 08:50:23 | amiconn | ...because the MMC driver can only read ~350KByte/sec |
| 08:50:29 | | Join damaki_ [0] (n=Chocolat@ALille-151-1-46-45.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:50:41 | JdGordon | well, the buffer reffilling isnt used, so its only the config saving which would effect anything |
| 08:51:03 | | Nick myzar|away is now known as myzar (i=pwnt@c-24-103-130-103.client.hacked.us) |
| 08:51:26 | amiconn | No, but the buffer refilling is longer than the idle delay, and in combination with the fact that the idle monitor may miss activity... |
| 08:52:05 | scorche | speaking of which, is anyone interested in some 8 meg RAM and some ROM chips while i have a contact to be able to get them and in case i have to buy a few extra? |
| 08:53:55 | JdGordon | amiconn: umm... maybe last_seen_mtx_unlock should be set to 0 as an else to the if (!ata_disk_is_active()) in ata_mmc |
| 08:54:32 | JdGordon | so that would mean that disk access shouldnt be missed |
| 08:54:54 | JdGordon | but then 10s may be way too long |
| 08:56:18 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 08:58:24 | amiconn | It would |
| 08:58:56 | amiconn | ata_disk_is_active() can be active for really short periods on Ondio |
| 08:59:16 | amiconn | I have an idea how the monitoring won't miss activity |
| 09:00 |
| 09:02:33 | | Quit Sinbios (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 09:04:18 | | Quit damaki (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:12:20 | Nimdae | so the scrolling on the ipod is tied closely to the cpu clock speed... |
| 09:22:29 | JdGordon | does nayone care that there is bassically no filename sanity checking in the fat driver? there is a fs bug report on this which i found and wondering if i should fix it |
| 09:25:34 | | Join wehn [0] (n=wehn@ppp124-254.lns2.bne4.internode.on.net) |
| 09:27:35 | Bagder | what letters aren't allowed? |
| 09:28:34 | JdGordon | all alpha-numeric and $ % ' - _ @ ~ ` ! ( ) { } ^ # & <space> are allowed |
| 09:29:00 | JdGordon | it actually looks like only the directory renaming checks the filename |
| 09:29:18 | JdGordon | fs 5659 |
| 09:30:39 | Bagder | I can't find the spec that details this |
| 09:30:53 | JdGordon | http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/firmware/fatgen.mspx |
| 09:31:05 | JdGordon | page 31 of that doc |
| 09:32:08 | Bagder | hehe, not on page 31 to me ;-) |
| 09:32:15 | Bagder | Word (tm) |
| 09:32:37 | JdGordon | OO says page 31/36 |
| 09:32:41 | JdGordon | dinner... back in 20 |
| 09:32:55 | Bagder | my OO doc has 40 pages... |
| 09:35:11 | Bagder | + , ; = [ ] are legal too |
| 09:36:40 | | Join petur [0] (i=d4efd6a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session) |
| 09:37:46 | markun | Bagder: I would like to use a twiki feature (to combine cells from a row) but it needs a plugin |
| 09:37:57 | markun | Could you install it from me? |
| 09:37:59 | markun | for |
| 09:38:40 | Bagder | Zagor and LinusN has done the wiki install/fiddling so far, I rather not mess with it |
| 09:39:25 | markun | ok, I'll ask them |
| 09:42:50 | | Join roolku [0] (i=522906c5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session) |
| 09:43:55 | roolku | markun: the table plugin is installed - I have used it for sorting by columns on the TagCache page |
| 09:44:53 | markun | Well, when I tried |^| to combine cells it didn't work. I'll try again. |
| 09:46:07 | markun | still nothing. At least not in the preview. |
| 09:47:13 | roolku | Markun: I think you might need to enable it with the %TABLE{ }% directive first |
| 09:48:11 | | Join daurn [0] (n=quae@124.243.137.107) |
| 09:48:34 | roolku | Markun: I had to add %TABLE{ sort="on"}% in front of the table to enable sorting, so there might be similar parameters for cellmerging |
| 09:50:14 | | Join PuGz [0] (n=bwoods@203.161.84.79.static.amnet.net.au) |
| 09:50:23 | JdGordon | Bagder: so do we want to bother with the checks? |
| 09:51:07 | markun | roolku: thanks, that works |
| 09:51:08 | PuGz | hi there. excuse my ignorance on this matter, but i have just done a read only check out of rockbox from cvs and have applied a patch i want to test on my machine. how do i now build rockbox ;) ? |
| 09:51:21 | PuGz | i am in ubuntu linux 6.10 |
| 09:51:38 | Bagder | PuGz: install the compiler, run the configure script, type make |
| 09:51:38 | PuGz | and have build-essential... so i have the standard make, gcc etc |
| 09:51:44 | PuGz | which configure script? |
| 09:51:48 | scorche | PuGz: the wiki page SimpleGuideToCompiling covers this |
| 09:51:53 | PuGz | sweet |
| 09:51:59 | PuGz | was looking for something like that. |
| 09:52:27 | roolku | markun: good :) |
| 09:55:08 | | Quit roolku ("CGI:IRC") |
| 09:55:17 | markun | roolku: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatPortPins#Dock_connector |
| 10:00 |
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| 10:24:21 | amiconn | JdGordon: With VFAT a lot more characters are allowed. VFAT stores unicode file names as UCS-2 |
| 10:24:37 | amiconn | It will be way easier to check which chars are not allowed |
| 10:24:55 | JdGordon | right, but dont most users use windows, and so it should conform to ms fat32? |
| 10:25:08 | Bagder | whoa that's not fat |
| 10:25:12 | Bagder | that's windows |
| 10:25:22 | myzar | then what of the difference between 80 and 30 gig 5.5g ipod videos? |
| 10:25:26 | myzar | FAT-wise |
| 10:25:30 | JdGordon | oh? i was under the impression it was fat.. ok ignore me |
| 10:25:56 | Bagder | JdGordon: well sure, but windows might impose further restrictions that aren't strictly FAT restrictions |
| 10:25:56 | myzar | the hardware is the same |
| 10:26:03 | myzar | only the drives differ |
| 10:30:30 | linuxstb_ | myzar: I don't think anyone knows the reason, but the Rockbox ATA driver doesn't appear to work on the 80GB. |
| 10:31:06 | | Quit menosm (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 10:32:43 | | Join madduck [0] (n=madduck@debian/developer/madduck) |
| 10:32:51 | | Part PuGz |
| 10:33:41 | myzar | progress requires constant diligence and a coordinated effort towards WORKING TOWARD A SOLUTION |
| 10:33:50 | myzar | i say we rally together and figure it out! |
| 10:33:52 | myzar | \o/ |
| 10:34:02 | * | Nimdae contributes his ignorance |
| 10:35:00 | * | scorche checks to see if petur is here |
| 10:35:06 | myzar | Nimdae you negative nancy |
| 10:35:09 | myzar | we don't need ignorance here |
| 10:35:13 | Nimdae | fine |
| 10:35:16 | scorche | seeing that he is, i will contribute a few mahna mahnas |
| 10:35:17 | Nimdae | i'll leave then :( |
| 10:35:18 | myzar | we need more positive pollys, like scorche! |
| 10:35:29 | myzar | he's the perfect example of a contributer to our cause |
| 10:35:34 | scorche | i am? |
| 10:35:38 | myzar | you are now |
| 10:35:42 | scorche | oh..alright |
| 10:35:50 | myzar | i'm using the same sales pitch as the army, scorche |
| 10:35:54 | myzar | just play along |
| 10:35:59 | myzar | we'll get some new boys to iraq in no time |
| 10:36:09 | Nimdae | i think i will make a series of themes based on my latest creation |
| 10:36:11 | | Join Arathis [0] (n=doerk@p548498C9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:36:20 | myzar | great |
| 10:36:35 | myzar | and when you're done, help me debug the new 80gig ipod |
| 10:36:38 | myzar | and we'll be set ;p |
| 10:36:47 | Nimdae | i don't have a 80gb ipod |
| 10:36:51 | myzar | i think i'm one of the few that has one |
| 10:36:52 | Nimdae | i just have a 30gb ipod |
| 10:36:55 | Nimdae | 5g, not 5.5g |
| 10:36:56 | myzar | but i have no idea how to contribute with it |
| 10:37:29 | Nimdae | has anyone compared the internals of the 5g with the 5.5g? |
| 10:37:36 | scorche | donate it to someone who does ;) |
| 10:37:48 | scorche | Nimdae: yes |
| 10:38:06 | myzar | heh |
| 10:38:11 | myzar | i'm not made of money, scorche |
| 10:38:11 | Nimdae | is there a new ata controller, or just software changes? |
| 10:38:19 | myzar | just determination to see it DONE! |
| 10:38:21 | myzar | \o/ |
| 10:39:09 | linuxstb_ | The ATA controller is internal to the PortalPlayer chip, so that shouldn't be any different. |
| 10:39:10 | amiconn | JdGordon: Microsoft defined the VFAT standard... |
| 10:39:22 | Nimdae | ah |
| 10:39:27 | * | scorche erases his much longer explanation |
| 10:39:49 | amiconn | Windows doesn't impose any restrictions not defined in the fat standard |
| 10:40:10 | amiconn | I only know one more restriction, but that's due to explorer, not the windows kernel |
| 10:40:48 | amiconn | Explorer doesn't allow to create filenames starting with a period. But it can handle them when they're there |
| 10:41:49 | Nimdae | it treats the text past the . as an extension, so it assumes there's no file name |
| 10:41:52 | Nimdae | heh |
| 10:41:54 | | Join LinusN [0] (i=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN) |
| 10:42:04 | myzar | and it has no literal code |
| 10:42:04 | amiconn | yes, that's what it says |
| 10:42:15 | myzar | so you can't do ././ext |
| 10:42:19 | amiconn | But you can create such files from the commandline |
| 10:42:23 | myzar | or .'.'ext |
| 10:42:34 | myzar | depending on which literal you use |
| 10:42:43 | myzar | bu then again who would need it |
| 10:42:51 | amiconn | ...and once they're there, explorer handles them fine as long as you don't try a rename |
| 10:42:56 | Nimdae | looks like it's just an explorer limitation |
| 10:42:59 | myzar | it is. |
| 10:43:03 | Nimdae | i did a rename just fine in cmd.exe |
| 10:43:10 | myzar | but that has mostly nothing to do with rockbox |
| 10:43:24 | myzar | so what can be the difference between 30 and 80? |
| 10:43:38 | amiconn | JdGordon: The fat specs name all characters which are forbidden. The fat specs are in the wiki |
| 10:44:00 | myzar | Perpendicular recording. |
| 10:44:04 | myzar | Could that be something? |
| 10:44:10 | | Join JdGordon_ [0] (n=jonno@c220-237-57-32.smelb1.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 10:44:10 | | Quit damaki_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 10:44:12 | Nimdae | doubtful |
| 10:44:14 | myzar | probably not on its own |
| 10:44:21 | myzar | but with such a large disk |
| 10:44:33 | myzar | do the number of sectors (any) differ between 30 and 80? |
| 10:44:50 | myzar | could they have tried to use more of the ATA standard with the 80? |
| 10:44:51 | Nimdae | if it were with ata specs, changes in the drive shouldn't affect access to the drive |
| 10:45:14 | myzar | ATA 1 |
| 10:45:15 | myzar | versus |
| 10:45:17 | myzar | ATA 2-6? |
| 10:45:21 | myzar | ATA7 even? |
| 10:45:39 | myzar | does anyone know anything about that? |
| 10:46:00 | Nimdae | i think i saw a reference somewhere they are ata5 |
| 10:46:07 | myzar | from what i recall, the number for ATA is one underneath which UDMA it is |
| 10:46:11 | myzar | so if it's 5, it's UDMA4 |
| 10:46:28 | myzar | that's 66mhz |
| 10:46:51 | amiconn | The number tells the version of the ata protocol |
| 10:47:00 | amiconn | ...which has nothing to do with the transfer mode |
| 10:47:05 | myzar | of coarse not |
| 10:47:14 | myzar | but if the ATA code in rockbox was, say, unupdated |
| 10:47:22 | amiconn | That's a common misunderstanding |
| 10:47:29 | amiconn | ...also regarding USB |
| 10:47:33 | myzar | then explain to me the vast number of ATA problems |
| 10:47:38 | myzar | in the 5.5 30 gig patches |
| 10:47:46 | myzar | the problems fixed in said patches |
| 10:47:53 | amiconn | People tend to use USB2.0 as a synonym for high speed mode, but that's wrong |
| 10:47:53 | linuxstb_ | It would be interesting to know if IPL works with the 80GB model. I know their developers are working on 5.5g support, but I don't know if any of them have an 80GB. |
| 10:48:04 | myzar | a developer from IPL mentioned it |
| 10:48:07 | myzar | in the thread |
| 10:48:14 | myzar | dunno if it was a real reply |
| 10:48:46 | Nimdae | could it simply be disk configuration? |
| 10:48:53 | linuxstb_ | But he didn't mention which 5.5g though IIRC. |
| 10:49:07 | myzar | i would assume both |
| 10:49:13 | myzar | since 80 has all the problems and NO progress has been made |
| 10:49:18 | Nimdae | does the ata driver work on the 30gb 5.5g? |
| 10:49:24 | myzar | it does, but not without problems |
| 10:49:28 | myzar | people have all sorts of reports |
| 10:49:42 | linuxstb_ | The ATA driver seems to work - it's the FAT driver which needs changing for the 5.5gs. |
| 10:49:44 | myzar | it plays fine one day, then after a few days it stops playing |
| 10:49:47 | | Quit Arathis ("[rl_bot quit]") |
| 10:49:54 | myzar | then even after reinstallation |
| 10:49:56 | myzar | it still wont play |
| 10:50:00 | myzar | which makes me agree with linuxstb_ |
| 10:50:05 | myzar | that it is indeed FAT and not ATA |
| 10:50:30 | linuxstb_ | I wouldn't expect the ATA driver to work one day, and not the next. But the FAT driver could easily cause corruptions. |
| 10:50:37 | myzar | that's what i'm saying |
| 10:51:10 | Nimdae | what's the model of the drive used in the 80gb? |
| 10:51:14 | myzar | MK8010GAH |
| 10:51:15 | myzar | i believe |
| 10:51:29 | Nimdae | it's not listed on toshiba's site |
| 10:51:43 | Nimdae | 8009 and 8007 are |
| 10:51:43 | | Join obo [0] (i=hidden-u@195.129.25.205) |
| 10:51:49 | myzar | yes, i know. |
| 10:51:55 | Nimdae | crazy |
| 10:51:58 | myzar | perhaps an OEM model |
| 10:52:01 | myzar | by apple? |
| 10:52:32 | Nimdae | the difference between the 8007 and 8009 appear to be the connector |
| 10:52:41 | Nimdae | so perhaps the 8010 is just a different connector |
| 10:52:41 | myzar | but you are comparing 07 and 09 |
| 10:52:47 | myzar | hmm, i don't think so |
| 10:52:50 | obo | GeorgeSimenon |
| 10:52:54 | myzar | which connector are you referring to? |
| 10:52:55 | obo | wikispam user |
| 10:53:22 | myzar | that wouldn't warrent FAT corruption |
| 10:53:46 | Nimdae | the 8009 lists "Zero Insertion Force (ZIF) connector" whereas the 8007 doesn't |
| 10:53:55 | Kasperle | from http://www.ipodmods.com/shop/1716-ipod-video2g-hard-drive-disk-mk8010gah.html : |
| 10:54:03 | Kasperle | You may receive an 80GB unbranded Toshiba drive: MK8009GAH (HDD1764 A ZL01) which works for All iPod Video units. The 8009 series is the same drive without the apple logo. Functionality remains the same for both drives. |
| 10:54:14 | Nimdae | yeah, but if all that differs are things like that, then you might be able to use those docs as ar eference |
| 10:55:40 | myzar | Nimdae |
| 10:55:47 | myzar | all that means is that its easier to plug it in |
| 10:55:57 | Nimdae | exactly |
| 10:56:06 | Nimdae | if the differences are small like that |
| 10:56:13 | Nimdae | then the rest may be fundamentally the same ;) |
| 10:56:21 | | Quit JdGordon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:56:22 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 10:56:29 | myzar | we already know the differences are small like that |
| 10:56:34 | myzar | and functionality is fundamentally the same |
| 10:56:38 | myzar | it's in the details, my boy |
| 10:57:05 | Nimdae | i wish i had $350 to get a 80gb ipod |
| 10:57:09 | myzar | by knowing exactly what it is and debugging that, we can figure out a solution |
| 10:57:13 | myzar | even if you had one, what could you do? |
| 10:57:23 | myzar | alone, i mean,. |
| 10:57:26 | Nimdae | take it apart and put it back together repeatedly, probably |
| 10:57:35 | myzar | would the repitition change anything? :P |
| 10:57:38 | myzar | i have one |
| 10:57:41 | Nimdae | that's what i do with my 30gb ipod :P |
| 10:57:49 | Nimdae | no particular reason |
| 10:57:58 | Nimdae | i just like taking things apart :P |
| 10:58:01 | myzar | i doubt any info i'd tell you would change anything we know |
| 10:58:03 | myzar | =[ |
| 10:58:22 | Nimdae | i've been hoping i could find a higher capacity 1.8" 5mm drive |
| 10:59:25 | | Join My_Sic [0] (n=MySic@m64.net81-67-5.noos.fr) |
| 10:59:36 | Kasperle | has anyone with the necessary skills even tried to install rockbox or ipl on the 80gb 5.5g? |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:08 | Nimdae | looks like i was wrong, it's ata6 |
| 11:00:38 | Nimdae | ooo toshiba makes a 40gb drive that would fit in the 30gb ipod case |
| 11:01:22 | | Quit ender` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 11:02:44 | myzar | skills? |
| 11:02:53 | myzar | people have tried doing it the same way as the 30 gigd |
| 11:02:58 | myzar | it didnt quite work |
| 11:05:14 | | Quit Mmmm (Remote closed the connection) |
| 11:06:54 | Kasperle | i meant someone who knows how to patch and compile a new bootloader and rockbox, and who at least understand the basic concepts of what's happening |
| 11:07:14 | Nimdae | could it be as simple as drive geometry? |
| 11:07:16 | myzar | that would require some developers having said 80gig ipod |
| 11:07:19 | Kasperle | i see a lot of whining from people who use obscure windows tools to patch their ipods. |
| 11:07:30 | myzar | no, code doesn't take into account sizes |
| 11:07:38 | myzar | and even having the 80g ipod |
| 11:07:40 | Kasperle | myzar: exactly. I'm just wondering whether there are any |
| 11:07:46 | myzar | people would need to gather together |
| 11:07:50 | myzar | not one person (me) |
| 11:08:03 | myzar | to understand differences and ways to fix it in rockbox |
| 11:08:12 | myzar | and eventually make a patch or recompile |
| 11:08:22 | myzar | check the new ports forum |
| 11:08:27 | myzar | all the people who care have posted |
| 11:08:40 | myzar | the rest are lurking and not posting |
| 11:09:05 | Kasperle | yeah, but a lot of those seem not too technically apt. the ones who are seem to mostly have the 30gb version |
| 11:09:43 | myzar | Kasperle |
| 11:09:59 | myzar | you need to understand that this isn't a team of dedicated coders like on a sourceforge project |
| 11:10:14 | myzar | it's disorganized, chaotic, and unpredictable |
| 11:10:29 | myzar | and truth be told, any user can be a developer or submit bug reports |
| 11:10:38 | myzar | that's the essence of open source, and why it's better |
| 11:10:41 | Kasperle | myzar: all i'm asking is whether someone who knows what's happening has even confirmed that there are issues with the 80gb ipod |
| 11:10:52 | myzar | because none of the devs have an 80 gig ipod |
| 11:10:56 | myzar | we're in a bit of a jam here |
| 11:11:08 | myzar | i don't recall any reply from anyone |
| 11:11:14 | myzar | with any confirmed facts |
| 11:11:15 | scorche | rockbox is on sourceforge... |
| 11:11:22 | | Join tipi^ [0] (i=pihlstro@amadeus.cc.tut.fi) |
| 11:11:23 | myzar | you misunderstand my point |
| 11:11:39 | scorche | ;) |
| 11:11:41 | myzar | i'm referring to most projects on SF as being mostly organized with a team of coders |
| 11:11:48 | myzar | here, it's a different story |
| 11:11:56 | myzar | and then again, most projects don't involve specific hardware |
| 11:12:02 | myzar | so anyone can hop in and code |
| 11:12:52 | | Join rasher [0] (n=rasher@62.79.64.148.adsl.hs.tiscali.dk) |
| 11:13:56 | * | scorche wasnt really following the conversation anyway |
| 11:15:06 | Nimdae | well, if i happen to win a lot of money in like a lottery or other gambling, i won't forget the rockbox group ;) |
| 11:15:31 | Nimdae | i'd go straight to the car lot and get me a brand new car, and wish they would hurry up and get rockbox on the 80gb ipod |
| 11:15:39 | blue_lizard | while of course everyone could be a developer |
| 11:16:16 | Nimdae | :P |
| 11:16:20 | Nimdae | anyway, i'm off to bed |
| 11:16:21 | Nimdae | nite |
| 11:16:22 | blue_lizard | a lot of people find it more plesing to wine 5h around in an forum instead on concetrate and work on a problem lige their 80Gig ipos problem |
| 11:16:51 | Nimdae | i wish i could contribute more, but i have no clue about hardware |
| 11:16:53 | blue_lizard | they are simply not really interested in solving such problems |
| 11:17:24 | Nimdae | and i can't afford to donate the hardware |
| 11:17:25 | blue_lizard | they enjoy watching porn more |
| 11:17:38 | Nimdae | i enjoy watching porn |
| 11:17:39 | | Quit Landus ("Leaving") |
| 11:17:46 | | Quit HCl (Remote closed the connection) |
| 11:17:51 | Nimdae | especially more than coding |
| 11:18:05 | blue_lizard | my sarcasm has once again not been understood |
| 11:18:07 | | Join bluebrother [0] (i=810d4658@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session) |
| 11:18:12 | blue_lizard | maybe my english is to bad |
| 11:18:22 | Nimdae | blue_lizard: don't worry, i like turning things around on people ;) |
| 11:19:09 | myzar | then how did other projects get worked on |
| 11:19:12 | myzar | explain this to me |
| 11:19:18 | blue_lizard | unfortunately it seem so that the people having the money fos such toys dont donate and dont contribute at all |
| 11:19:18 | myzar | any other build has gotten SOME progress |
| 11:19:22 | myzar | and half the whining |
| 11:19:26 | scorche | oh boy...: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=7268.0 |
| 11:19:29 | myzar | i don't understand it |
| 11:19:32 | myzar | this is an IPOD |
| 11:19:40 | myzar | a freaking ipod, the most popular mp3 player in the world |
| 11:19:46 | rasher | Because the people who buy ipods are generally clueless |
| 11:19:50 | myzar | we get NO progress and MORE whining |
| 11:19:57 | myzar | that's stereotyping, rasher my boy |
| 11:19:58 | Nimdae | scorche: i feel your pain |
| 11:20:06 | rasher | myzar: so what, it's true |
| 11:20:11 | myzar | are you saying people who buy OTHER mp3 players are actually non-clueless? |
| 11:20:20 | rasher | scorche: wow |
| 11:20:23 | myzar | people that buy ipods are newbies while people that buy other players are not? |
| 11:20:30 | rasher | Yes. Yes I am. |
| 11:20:36 | rasher | At least, percentage-wise. |
| 11:20:39 | blue_lizard | you misunderstood me but its ok |
| 11:20:55 | myzar | ...percentage-wise?! |
| 11:21:06 | rasher | Is this a hard concept to grasp? |
| 11:21:08 | scorche | myzar: he speaks the truth...ipods are status symbols and a way of looking hip |
| 11:21:12 | myzar | of COARSE since the majority of people that buy apple products are clueless dolts |
| 11:21:17 | myzar | who want to look hip, as you say |
| 11:21:18 | blue_lizard | myzar: are you an linux user? |
| 11:21:20 | myzar | only because it's the MAJORITY |
| 11:21:25 | myzar | yes, yes i am |
| 11:21:28 | scorche | before them, most people didnt know what the hell an mp3 was |
| 11:21:42 | Nimdae | i got my ipod because it didn't cost me $250 |
| 11:21:46 | blue_lizard | then join the beryl irc channel and take a look at the people |
| 11:21:52 | Nimdae | and it was better than my other mp3 player |
| 11:21:55 | myzar | but it's stereotyping like that which gets us off coarse |
| 11:22:00 | Nimdae | and i wanted to use rockbox |
| 11:22:01 | Kasperle | i got mine because it cost me only 6 souls :P |
| 11:22:07 | blue_lizard | the bigest idiots have the bigest grafickards |
| 11:22:10 | * | linuxstb_ likes Apple hardware, but hates Apple software... |
| 11:22:11 | blue_lizard | not the devs |
| 11:22:22 | myzar | but then why do people work harder on lesser known projects |
| 11:22:26 | myzar | and see to it that it gets progress |
| 11:22:43 | myzar | instead of the BIGGEST, POSSIBLY THE ONE WITH THE MOST POTENTIAL |
| 11:22:49 | scorche | because they want to see it done and have the capability to do so? |
| 11:22:55 | rasher | The problem is that few people with a clue have a 5.5G |
| 11:22:57 | blue_lizard | not only |
| 11:22:58 | myzar | but we are talking potential |
| 11:23:02 | rasher | myzar: stop whining please. |
| 11:23:06 | myzar | whining? |
| 11:23:09 | blue_lizard | because they have interrest in the problem |
| 11:23:09 | rasher | Yes, whining. |
| 11:23:19 | myzar | you clearly are a clueless idiot if you think i'm whining |
| 11:23:20 | rasher | You're acting like a spoiled child who's not getting what he wants. |
| 11:23:31 | blue_lizard | and feel themself comfortable in solving the problem |
| 11:23:36 | myzar | i'm acting like someone who wants to get a team going and see to it that this gets solved |
| 11:23:42 | scorche | myzar: i think you are as well...am i a clueless idiot? =) |
| 11:23:47 | rasher | So go do the work instead of complaining here. |
| 11:24:05 | myzar | now i don't really think i want to do the work |
| 11:24:18 | myzar | it's nice remarks like this that make me wonder why i even do anything for anyone online anymore |
| 11:24:24 | bluebrother | hmm. The h100 hardware can only do up to 44.1kHz, can it? |
| 11:24:26 | scorche | and like i said...it wont happen unless someone with the motivation, the unit itself, and the capability to do it comes forward |
| 11:24:28 | myzar | MAC, Linux, or even for the rockbox community |
| 11:24:30 | Nimdae | myzar: set up a paypal account and have people donate to it, use the money to get a 80gb ipod or two, and then send them to devs |
| 11:24:58 | myzar | it looks like it was all my stupid mistake, i guess |
| 11:25:00 | rasher | myzar: Jesus. You're acting like someone owes to you to make Rockbox work on the 5.5G, and you say WE have the wrong attitude? |
| 11:25:24 | myzar | i said nothing, i was merely questioning something occuring on the forums |
| 11:25:30 | myzar | not once did i mention you or anyone in here |
| 11:25:45 | Nimdae | in fact, if i get approval from Bagder, i'll do the paypal thing |
| 11:25:49 | Nimdae | gather various players, etc |
| 11:26:05 | myzar | you should really read what i say before making yourself look like you didn't even read what i said, rasher |
| 11:26:09 | linuxstb_ | myzar: It's a sad fact that almost no ipod owners contribute development time to Rockbox. Almost all of the ipod code in Rockbox is written by existing Rockbox developers who bought ipods. |
| 11:26:19 | scorche | myzar: you asked how other projects get worked on...i gave you the 3 keys that need to be there...there is nothing else to it really |
| 11:26:26 | myzar | and this i agree with, linuxstb_ |
| 11:26:40 | rasher | myzar: "then how did other projects get worked on" |
| 11:26:57 | rasher | That's what I reacted on. |
| 11:26:59 | myzar | i understood, scorche |
| 11:27:10 | myzar | you overreacted a bit there, rasher |
| 11:27:18 | rasher | Whatever. |
| 11:27:21 | myzar | i'm merely thinking how the largest mp3 player gets the least attention |
| 11:27:27 | scorche | well, his handle *is* rasher ;) |
| 11:27:38 | Nimdae | well here's the issue, people in the know contribute to the work being done, and the masses aren't in te know, so obviously a community of people won't all be contributing to the work all at once |
| 11:27:48 | blue_lizard | other projects also dont solve problems overnight |
| 11:27:54 | myzar | but it hasn't been overnight |
| 11:28:05 | blue_lizard | as an example the openwrt project |
| 11:28:12 | myzar | other projects have shown progress over time |
| 11:28:17 | myzar | this one doesn't seem to be moving anywhere |
| 11:28:22 | myzar | and that's what i'm questioning |
| 11:28:27 | Bagder | myzar: and now you whine |
| 11:28:29 | blue_lizard | its easy to ruin and wrt device but it costs only 60EUR in germany |
| 11:28:30 | Nimdae | at least the openwrt project had the benefit of an existing opensource OS to work with |
| 11:28:31 | myzar | no, Bagder |
| 11:28:41 | myzar | and now, i think of the reason why and try to help correct it |
| 11:28:41 | Bagder | I've seen progress |
| 11:28:45 | blue_lizard | but an ipod costs a lot more |
| 11:28:48 | myzar | that's all i want to do |
| 11:28:53 | scorche | Nimdae: not with the version 5s |
| 11:28:54 | petur | myzar: go ask apple and portalplayer some doc about their components |
| 11:28:59 | myzar | if i was to whine, i'd go on the forums and whine with everyone else |
| 11:29:09 | Bagder | the only way to get progress done is to dig in yourself |
| 11:29:22 | Bagder | that's open source |
| 11:29:26 | myzar | petur, but if the problem involves FAT, wouldn't i have to go to toshiba and ask them? |
| 11:29:40 | Bagder | or pay someone else to do it |
| 11:29:42 | Nimdae | scorche: actually, if i remember correctly, linksys changed the bootloader and os on the 5s, so it's still not that hard to work with...but i'm out of touch with the wrt community, and i have a 2.2 |
| 11:29:43 | petur | rofl |
| 11:29:55 | Kasperle | toshiba has no control about what filesystem people write to their drives |
| 11:30:05 | myzar | of coarse they don't |
| 11:30:06 | markun | myzar: are confusing FAT and ATA? |
| 11:30:08 | myzar | No. |
| 11:30:19 | | Quit petur ("worrrk") |
| 11:30:25 | myzar | one of the only differences between 30 and 80 ipods is the drive |
| 11:30:34 | Nimdae | myzar: i have a question for you |
| 11:30:36 | myzar | from what people have confirmed |
| 11:30:42 | myzar | what is it, Nimdae |
| 11:30:55 | Nimdae | have you donated anything other than written contribution to the rockbox project? such as cpu time, money, or a device? |
| 11:30:59 | Kasperle | my questions still stands: has someone with a clue actually confirmed there being issues with the 80gb model? ;) |
| 11:31:22 | myzar | i'm afraid i have not, and i thought it might be a good idea to help how i can |
| 11:31:33 | Nimdae | consider doing one of those |
| 11:31:38 | Nimdae | as of now, you have free software |
| 11:31:38 | scorche | myzar: tbh, this is not that way |
| 11:31:39 | markun | myzar: great, welcome aboard |
| 11:31:41 | linuxstb_ | Kasperle: Someone posted a detailed message to the mailing list stating exactly where the Rockbox ATA driver failed. But he didn't know how to fix it. |
| 11:31:42 | Nimdae | deal with it ;) |
| 11:31:49 | myzar | i got what i wanted |
| 11:31:57 | myzar | to get people actually active in here and interested in the project |
| 11:32:05 | Nimdae | free software has no guarantees to actually...function |
| 11:32:16 | myzar | no, but if nothing is done, no progress will be made |
| 11:32:18 | Nimdae | and you have no guarantee that you will be heard |
| 11:32:29 | myzar | at least i attempted to gather together SOME people |
| 11:32:35 | scorche | myzar: do you understand how hard it is to develop for a target that you dont have in front of you? |
| 11:32:39 | linuxstb_ | myzar: Rockbox is a huge project, supporting about 20 different MP3 players. A small part of it is the ipods, and an even smaller part of that is the 5.5g... |
| 11:32:41 | myzar | yes, scorche |
| 11:32:44 | Nimdae | myzar: actually, i have to agree, you sound like you're whining |
| 11:32:46 | myzar | yes, LinusN |
| 11:32:49 | myzar | no, Nimdae |
| 11:33:05 | rasher | You keep saying no, yet everyone seems to agree. |
| 11:33:06 | myzar | what i mean to do is find people that CAN contribute to the project here |
| 11:33:08 | myzar | i DO have an 80 |
| 11:33:12 | rasher | So that's one. |
| 11:33:13 | myzar | that's what i've been TRYING to do |
| 11:33:28 | | Quit My_Sic ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 11:33:31 | Nimdae | ok, put in some code, or send it to someone who can |
| 11:33:35 | rasher | Show of hands, who here has an ipod 5.5G 80gb? |
| 11:33:54 | markun | not many hands.. |
| 11:34:05 | rasher | myzar: these are your potential allies in #rockbox.. |
| 11:34:14 | myzar | well, i'm happy to say i at least tried |
| 11:34:19 | Nimdae | myzar: btw, yes i have contributed even if not with code, hardware, or money: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=7268.0 <−− kermit.pimpinwithmuppets.com is mine ;) |
| 11:34:20 | myzar | to get some "potential allies" |
| 11:34:29 | markun | myzar: maybe you can ask in one of the ipod forums (like ipodwizzard) for help |
| 11:34:35 | scorche | i think "allies" might be the wrong word... |
| 11:34:39 | myzar | a good idea, markun |
| 11:34:50 | myzar | but it seems i'm getting criticism here, as well as some rude remarks |
| 11:35:01 | markun | myzar: just ignore them :) |
| 11:35:03 | myzar | which makes me wonder why i even devote time to something like this if the people are going to be arrogant jerks |
| 11:35:23 | scorche | Nimdae: nice link ;) |
| 11:35:24 | rasher | Because you came with an attitude of "why on earth is nothing happening here, it's not fair!" |
| 11:35:37 | myzar | my attitude is my own concern |
| 11:35:38 | Nimdae | scorche: -_- |
| 11:35:40 | myzar | and how you interpret it is your own |
| 11:35:42 | | Join HCl [0] (i=hcl@hecate.student.ipv6.utwente.nl) |
| 11:35:43 | myzar | i can at least say i attempted to do something |
| 11:35:47 | myzar | i don't see you doing the same |
| 11:35:48 | markun | hi HCl |
| 11:35:49 | Nimdae | stupid copy/paste doesnt'w ork well over synergy |
| 11:35:51 | rasher | But your attitude is what gets you those remarks and criticism. |
| 11:36:05 | rasher | myzar: I don't care about the ipod 5.5G 80gb |
| 11:36:08 | myzar | my attitude being misinterpreted is your fault and yours alone |
| 11:36:12 | myzar | and what you care about is also yours alone |
| 11:36:18 | markun | myzar: ok |
| 11:36:32 | Nimdae | myzar: you went on a rant about how much your device is being neglected, when it is not |
| 11:36:43 | rasher | myzar: I'm simply trying to explain what you did to attract those rude remarks. If you're not going to accept that, you shouldn't be complaining in the first place. |
| 11:36:45 | Nimdae | http://www.rockbox.org/cvsmod/serv-2006-11-08%2008:04:21.html |
| 11:36:46 | Nimdae | there |
| 11:36:47 | myzar | Nimdae, i was merely stating what i saw in the forums compared to other projects |
| 11:36:51 | Nimdae | that's the link i intended |
| 11:36:54 | myzar | it was not meant to be complaints or a rant |
| 11:37:05 | Nimdae | intention and action are different things |
| 11:37:17 | myzar | but how you interpret the two are your own buisiness |
| 11:37:19 | scorche | −−−−−−−−−−alright...that is enough...there isnt anything to be gained by continuing this conversation−−−−−−−−−− |
| 11:37:27 | myzar | yes, you are correct, scorche |
| 11:37:29 | Kasperle | linuxstb_: is this the post you're referring to? http://www.rockbox.org/mail/archive/rockbox-dev-archive-2006-10/0014.shtml |
| 11:37:31 | Nimdae | i can kill a man while intended to save his life, i still killed him |
| 11:38:08 | rasher | Kasperle: yup |
| 11:38:09 | Nimdae | anyway, i was going to bed, so nite ;) |
| 11:38:32 | | Join damaki [0] (n=Chocolat@ALille-151-1-46-45.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:38:38 | rasher | At least, that's the only mail of its kind I remember. |
| 11:42:01 | | Nick JdGordon_ is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@c220-237-57-32.smelb1.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
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| 11:51:14 | blue_lizard | i love forums |
| 11:51:15 | | Quit HCl (No route to host) |
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| 11:51:30 | blue_lizard | one person makes a patch (200) lines |
| 11:51:48 | blue_lizard | and 30 persons write at least 500 lines about how it should work |
| 11:52:27 | blue_lizard | obviously the thing ends up with the patch not applied and the dev bored |
| 11:52:58 | Bagder | posting a patch in the forum is a waste in the first place |
| 11:53:27 | Bagder | but yes, it sometimes is a bit of a problem that people get bored and get lost before their patches are properly dealt with |
| 11:53:36 | Bagder | but hey, what can we do |
| 11:54:14 | blue_lizard | of course nothing can be done |
| 11:54:29 | blue_lizard | one cannot change the behaviour of the people |
| 11:54:34 | LinusN | and that mostly happens because a) the patch is not interesting, or b) the patch is a badly written hack, or c) it only works on one platform etc etc |
| 11:54:54 | LinusN | and the dev is not interested in working to make the patch committable |
| 11:55:24 | rasher | Bagder: About my simulator patch of last night (http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6303), what is a reasonable buffer size for storing a unix/windows path (+the rockbox path)? I have a feeling MAX_PATH is not going to cut it. |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:08 | rasher | Nor is 2*MAX_PATH |
| 12:01:26 | LinusN | well, a FAT32 path is max 260 characters |
| 12:01:35 | Bagder | yes, but the sim is not limited to that |
| 12:02:12 | rasher | I guess I could artificially limit the rootdir to MAX_PATH |
| 12:02:24 | rasher | It's not like many people use paths larger than 260 characters |
| 12:02:35 | rasher | and even if they do, it'd be fairly easy to enlarge the buffer |
| 12:02:42 | Bagder | no, I won't mind setting a limit somewhere and just ask people to cut the path otherwise |
| 12:02:51 | rasher | I'll just do that |
| 12:03:03 | rasher | And change all the buffersizes in io.c to 2*MAX_PATH |
| 12:03:15 | LinusN | it's not like we need to conserve memory in the sim |
| 12:03:36 | rasher | I suppose there's no problem in using 4*MAX_PATH |
| 12:04:02 | rasher | The internal functions still work like on target, it's just the lower-level that needs to work with the extra-large path |
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| 12:10:46 | rasher | Or.. what. I'm having a hard time figuring out if the functions in common/io.c are called by the regular filesystem code, or called directly |
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| 12:29:40 | My_Sic | Slasheri: have you look on my file ? |
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| 12:30:48 | webguest30 | markun: hey font man! How about including nimbus 19 into the font pack? I downloaded it from the patch and use it to my great pleasure. |
| 12:31:42 | markun | webguest30: hi there. Forgot all about fonts :) I'll have a look later. |
| 12:32:19 | markun | My role as Gigabeat man is keeping me occupied :) |
| 12:32:49 | webguest30 | markun: me OK. I use it anyway, just wanted to share my experience with others. |
| 12:34:02 | JdGordon | does anyone know a bigger source for karaoke files than evillyics? |
| 12:34:06 | JdGordon | evil lyrics* |
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| 12:53:10 | * | JdGordon is sceming his next crazy adventure in the code.... |
| 12:53:47 | rasher | Don't you have a lot of unfinished projects? Not to tell you what to do, just wondering |
| 12:53:51 | linuxstb | myzar: If you want to get the 80GB 5.5g working, I would suggest contacting the IPL people and finding out if they are having a similar problem accessing the disk on the 80GB. If they do have the problem, you could work with them to try and find the answer, if not, then you can compare the Rockbox and IPL ATA drivers and try to find out why Rockbox chokes. |
| 12:54:18 | linuxstb | Simply because there are IPL devs who own 5.5gs, and no Rockbox devs who do... |
| 12:54:20 | rasher | Wouldn't ipl be using (uc)linux ata code? |
| 12:54:26 | linuxstb | Yes. |
| 12:54:40 | | Quit NickDe ("Leaving") |
| 12:54:42 | rasher | I would imagine that's somewhat more advanced than Rockbox ata code |
| 12:54:43 | linuxstb | But with some hardware init specific to the ipod. |
| 12:54:50 | rasher | Ah, okay |
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| 12:56:23 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 12:56:34 | LinusN | JdGordon: lost interest in the menu patch? |
| 12:56:47 | JdGordon | LinusN: no, im pissed off with it tho |
| 12:57:16 | JdGordon | i resynced it this morning and the boost problem is still there.. and now its refusing to load a theme which it didnt have a problem with last week :'( |
| 12:58:41 | JdGordon | also, I need to either add a thread for the settings, or figure out a better way to save because using the ata_idle it stkOv's the ata thread.. |
| 13:00 |
| 13:02:04 | * | rasher looks at ReleaseTodo and notes that most tasks are actually fairly close to done at this point |
| 13:02:34 | rasher | Remote and voice support have come a long way since then |
| 13:03:37 | * | scorche hasnt heard the word "release" in months |
| 13:04:14 | rasher | I suggest Rockbox starts releasing every 2 months. |
| 13:04:18 | * | rasher ducks and runs |
| 13:04:27 | JdGordon | haha.. you make funny |
| 13:05:56 | JdGordon | Remote support for iRiver, <- thats not 100%? |
| 13:06:02 | | Join pixelma [0] (i=pixelma@82.193.235.34) |
| 13:06:38 | rasher | Or at least 95% |
| 13:06:54 | rasher | But yeah, I'd say Done |
| 13:07:08 | rasher | And voice is.. fairly close |
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| 13:08:07 | JdGordon | does anyone have any idea where to start debugging this very odd problem? playing audio seems to keep boosting-unboosting and according to the os debug screen the codec keeps getting run for a very short time before going back to main..? |
| 13:08:09 | rasher | In fact, with a short bug-squashing period, (and a manual sprint), Mayday release goals could be met right now |
| 13:08:39 | rasher | As far as I can tell anyway |
| 13:08:54 | | Quit My_Sic (Remote closed the connection) |
| 13:09:00 | scorche | heh...short bug-squashing period |
| 13:09:17 | JdGordon | no, because new reocrding patch probably has bugs which need to be ironed out first |
| 13:09:25 | rasher | Right, forgot about that |
| 13:09:26 | JdGordon | and swcodec still has problems doesnt it? |
| 13:09:28 | petur | well I think most issues that prevented 3.0 are gone, no? |
| 13:09:40 | scorche | i would say so |
| 13:10:03 | * | petur hasn't had any playback issues lately |
| 13:10:21 | | Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection) |
| 13:10:28 | * | JdGordon doesnt actually see the point of diong an actual release |
| 13:10:35 | rasher | My playback pattern usually involves building a playlist (often just playing a folder), and pressing play |
| 13:10:41 | rasher | So I've no idea |
| 13:10:42 | JdGordon | a release would just be a daily anyway |
| 13:10:48 | scorche | well, AAC will need to be cleaned up as well, correct? |
| 13:10:55 | | Join My_Sic [0] (n=MySic@jadzia.ece.fr) |
| 13:11:04 | petur | JdGordon: a tested stable build for users who don't want to beta test |
| 13:11:18 | rasher | I'd say AAC can be released as "sortof working" |
| 13:11:26 | | Quit hannesd (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 13:11:35 | * | petur wished his stable recording build wasn't on the disk that crashed |
| 13:11:39 | bluebrother | shouldn't we wait for the next mayday for the release? ;-) |
| 13:11:56 | JdGordon | not if it means another 3 months feature freeze :'( |
| 13:12:10 | rasher | I don't think anyone wants to repeat that |
| 13:12:14 | | Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host52-146.pool8250.interbusiness.it) |
| 13:12:44 | JdGordon | so, why not call the daily at the end of this week a testing release build? |
| 13:12:59 | * | bluebrother would like to see that settings-in-menu stuff again. |
| 13:13:03 | amiconn | JdGordon: If the ata thread stovs because of the settings save, there are 2 options. (1) make the ata stack larger (2) check why settings save needs so much stack, and cut it down |
| 13:13:05 | JdGordon | then rename it to release att he end of next week if nothing major is fixed? |
| 13:13:41 | rasher | JdGordon: recording |
| 13:13:47 | amiconn | The code is far from release quality atm, imho |
| 13:13:56 | rasher | I'd say recording needs to be re-fixed at the very least |
| 13:14:02 | JdGordon | amiconn: yeah, setting saving is unfortunatly slightly messy now, maybe it would be nice to double the ata thread anyway to give more room and less need for async callbacks? |
| 13:14:43 | amiconn | I'd prefer removing the messiness instead |
| 13:15:01 | amiconn | Got my comment regarding code quality? |
| 13:15:34 | JdGordon | its actually pretty neat, the messyness comes in because of how the settings are stored.. and yes |
| 13:15:56 | JdGordon | code quality isnt important imho... it works as expected which is the big thing |
| 13:16:15 | * | amiconn disagrees |
| 13:16:25 | * | bluebrother raises his hand for code quality |
| 13:16:35 | JdGordon | the average joe doesnt care about the code being pretty... |
| 13:16:40 | JdGordon | as long as it works |
| 13:16:45 | Bagder | without code quality, things won't work fine |
| 13:16:52 | bluebrother | but it gets unmaintainable |
| 13:17:20 | * | petur raises his code quality hand too |
| 13:17:23 | bluebrother | I was working on code styled like that some time ago. It was awful. Not even a consistent indent style :( |
| 13:18:05 | amiconn | The style is one problem, but not the only one |
| 13:18:09 | rasher | Why doesn't AAC resample? |
| 13:18:34 | amiconn | Code can be working as expected, be well indented, and still a mess |
| 13:19:49 | | Quit Id2ndR ("Parti") |
| 13:19:51 | * | bluebrother agrees. |
| 13:19:54 | JdGordon | yes, but if it works, AND releasing is "important" then imho its good enough, provided that there is at least a reminder it needs cleaning up |
| 13:20:19 | bluebrother | releasing is never important for open source projects IMO :) |
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| 13:21:48 | rasher | Not extremely important, but I still believe a lot of people would like a release now and then |
| 13:22:17 | bluebrother | we could do something like release candidates from time to time. |
| 13:22:22 | bluebrother | as that wouldn |
| 13:22:28 | bluebrother | 't imply a feature freeze |
| 13:22:38 | JdGordon | doesnt it? |
| 13:22:39 | bluebrother | damn, hit the wrong key :o |
| 13:22:42 | markun | amiconn: is anyone working on the ipod 3g? |
| 13:22:44 | petur | it would, unless you branched |
| 13:22:47 | rasher | Release candidates should be eligible for release |
| 13:22:54 | rasher | Unless major bugs are found |
| 13:23:05 | linuxstb | markun: I think dan_a is the only person with a 3g. |
| 13:23:07 | rasher | I think you're using the Microsoft definition of release candidate |
| 13:23:16 | scorche | markun: dan_a was, but he is working on sansa atm |
| 13:23:38 | markun | I want to put some code back that got lost during the target tree switch |
| 13:23:46 | petur | feature freezes are a way to force devs to fix bugs iso add new stuff - just making RC's wouldn't |
| 13:23:56 | bluebrother | hehe ... MS even releases beta software as final. |
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| 13:24:28 | * | petur wouldn't even call it beta |
| 13:24:59 | bluebrother | IMO a RC doesn't forbid new features at all but just is a bit of "concentrate on bugs and let the new feature wait" |
| 13:25:04 | bluebrother | alpha? |
| 13:25:29 | rasher | bluebrother: Why would you call it "release candidate" then |
| 13:25:54 | woggles | im considering getting a 750mAh replacement battery for my ipod mini(up from 400mAh), do u guys reckon its worth it? what do u think my new battery life will be like? |
| 13:26:01 | rasher | I believe the Mozilla way is "correct" |
| 13:26:14 | rasher | Do an RC, and if no bugs come up, rename to final and release |
| 13:26:15 | scorche | markun: i believe barrywardell did the ipod move |
| 13:26:32 | rasher | (Last Firefox 2 RC == Firefox 2) |
| 13:26:43 | bluebrother | rasher: mozilla also removed the places system, afaik between some RCs. |
| 13:27:02 | JdGordon | you can remove features in RC, not add... |
| 13:27:57 | | Quit Rick ("I don't need to be here.") |
| 13:28:04 | scorche | LinusN: forum search function is fubared again =/ |
| 13:29:14 | | Join Rick [0] (i=rick@pool-71-108-2-183.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 13:29:44 | rasher | Anyway, RCs are probably better suited for quicker moving projects |
| 13:29:47 | | Join tim66_ [0] (n=tim_pick@82-69-41-162.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 13:29:52 | rasher | Or larger. |
| 13:31:12 | | Quit Rick (Client Quit) |
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| 13:32:00 | rasher | I just updated the ReleaseTodo, please edit if you disagree (http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ReleaseTodo) |
| 13:32:28 | kumpelblase | hi / tach |
| 13:33:28 | petur | rasher: I get this: Unmatched ) in regex; marked by <−− HERE in m//Main/ReleaseTodo) <−− HERE $/ at (eval 16) line 7. |
| 13:33:43 | bluebrother | petur: remote the ) from the link ;-) |
| 13:33:50 | petur | hahaha |
| 13:33:55 | * | petur slaps forehead |
| 13:34:03 | bluebrother | the webclient doens't do this right |
| 13:34:12 | bluebrother | I had it too |
| 13:34:18 | * | petur slaps webclient too |
| 13:34:33 | * | bluebrother wishes a real irc client here |
| 13:34:35 | rasher | Nice error though by twiki |
| 13:34:35 | scorche | so violent... |
| 13:34:58 | petur | yes, I do it for the stats :) |
| 13:35:04 | scorche | hehe |
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| 13:35:10 | scorche | and i get attacked =( |
| 13:35:33 | | Quit daurn (Remote closed the connection) |
| 13:35:36 | * | petur wonders is scorche is his forehead or a webclient |
| 13:35:37 | | Quit woggles ("Leaving") |
| 13:35:48 | markun | bluebrother: do you use linux? |
| 13:36:34 | bluebrother | markun: yes, but I'm currently on wxp |
| 13:37:06 | markun | bluebrother: you could put http://antony.lesuisse.org/qweb/trac/wiki/AjaxTerm on a linux server and run irssi from a webbrowser.. :) |
| 13:37:44 | rasher | Or use that java ssh deal |
| 13:37:50 | rasher | mindterm? |
| 13:38:16 | bluebrother | wow, that is really nice. |
| 13:39:19 | bluebrother | I have a linux box I can access right now but as that box was simply standing around for 2+ years its horribly outdated (and doesn't have irssi right now) |
| 13:39:25 | rasher | Of course, you could just run putty |
| 13:40:02 | obo | Bagder: LinusN: wikispam - user GeorgeSimenon |
| 13:40:32 | petur | wow, a writer in the wiki ;) |
| 13:41:23 | Bagder | removed |
| 13:46:00 | Kasperle | some ssh client + screen + irssi == win |
| 13:49:17 | | Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 13:51:26 | | Quit My_Sic ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:00 | | Quit EspeonEefi (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 14:01:16 | rasher | Interesting http://wiki.freeculture.org/IRony_iPod_Liberation_Party |
| 14:01:17 | | Join daurn [0] (n=quae@124.243.137.107) |
| 14:01:52 | rasher | Even more interesting: mako.cc/copyrighteous/projects/20061108-00.html">http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/projects/20061108-00.html |
| 14:02:01 | rasher | A python rockbox installer for Ipod |
| 14:02:57 | | Quit obo ("bye") |
| 14:04:25 | linuxstb | That's another thing - whenever ipod users do occasionally do something Rockbox related, they do it independently... |
| 14:04:59 | rasher | It's strange |
| 14:05:02 | linuxstb | See also the "Rockbox on macpod" thread in the forums. |
| 14:05:14 | linuxstb | Strange people these ipod users... :) |
| 14:05:15 | rasher | This guy is an ubuntu developer, I wonder why he didn't come here |
| 14:05:31 | rasher | It's not like he doesn't understand OSS |
| 14:05:55 | petur | maybe he did, but we don't know his nick |
| 14:06:10 | rasher | Mako |
| 14:06:26 | rasher | (on a wild guess, whois confirms) |
| 14:06:57 | | Join Criamos [0] (n=Criamos@p549302DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:07:37 | linuxstb | petur: Maybe, but I can't recall anyone mentioning a python installer. |
| 14:08:01 | rasher | Nope, he was never here |
| 14:08:10 | rasher | Or if he was, he was incognito |
| 14:08:17 | rasher | Which seems silly |
| 14:09:02 | rasher | Next question is of course, do we want a python installer? |
| 14:09:37 | linuxstb | I don't know, but we definitely want some kind of ipod installer. |
| 14:09:55 | rasher | If it's written well, it could be used as the basis of a python-wx installer (which would be huge, but cross platform) |
| 14:10:11 | rasher | (huge for the windows version, that is) |
| 14:10:28 | linuxstb | Ideally, we would extend Cassandra's wx-based installer, but I haven't seen her around for months. |
| 14:10:59 | bluebrother | does wxwidgets run on os x? |
| 14:11:04 | linuxstb | Yep. |
| 14:11:10 | | Quit petur ("worrrk") |
| 14:11:26 | linuxstb | Although when I tried it about 18 months ago, it was still a little flakey. But hopefully it's stable now. |
| 14:12:08 | rasher | linuxstb: Agreed. It'd be nice to extend it with firmware-patching for irivers, bootloader-installing for ipods, etc. |
| 14:12:22 | linuxstb | It should be able to do all sort of neat things like build tagcache, download and install daily/cvs builds, plus what you just said... |
| 14:12:52 | bluebrother | I had a quick look in the qt4 installer2 of ipl some time ago. Still missing the time to get known of qt |
| 14:13:07 | bluebrother | s/known/used/ |
| 14:13:22 | rasher | I wonder if it'd help any if I wrote a wiki page detailing what it needs to include |
| 14:14:17 | linuxstb | I think we need to decide if we are going to wait for our mythical do-everything installer, or accept one of the unofficial installers into the project. |
| 14:14:32 | | Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@adsl-75-45-241-0.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 14:14:42 | linuxstb | The ipodwizard installer seems a good candidate (but it's windows only, so I've never tried it). |
| 14:15:10 | bluebrother | installer2 is qt4, so it runs on linux (tried, but I don't have a device) |
| 14:15:11 | rasher | If a windows only installer is accepted, it'd probably be reasonable to adopt something like the python installer |
| 14:15:57 | linuxstb | It could be useful for someone to test the various installers and document them in a wiki page. |
| 14:16:23 | rasher | If only I had an ipod.. |
| 14:16:34 | rasher | Someone buy me a nano so I can test intallers. |
| 14:16:39 | linuxstb | If only I had windows... |
| 14:17:56 | bluebrother | I'd like to have an updater that gets also installed on the device and can pull new builds from the web. |
| 14:18:10 | linuxstb | I think that was Cassandra's intention. |
| 14:18:14 | rasher | The rockbox tools can be run from the device, yes |
| 14:18:17 | rasher | tool. |
| 14:18:29 | rasher | Wait, Utility. |
| 14:18:35 | rasher | Did she ever release any source? |
| 14:19:04 | linuxstb | The ipod installation tools probably can't - I think you need to unmount before accessing the raw disk device. |
| 14:19:36 | rasher | Yeah, but updating is no problem |
| 14:19:41 | linuxstb | No, no source from Cassandra. |
| 14:20:12 | | Quit wehn () |
| 14:20:25 | rasher | What's a good title for a page about installers/updaters? RockboxTools? |
| 14:20:49 | linuxstb | Is RockboxInstaller taken? |
| 14:21:10 | rasher | No, but I was thinking about stuff like update/tagcache etc. |
| 14:21:34 | rasher | (planning to have a "dream tool" listed along with the real ones) |
| 14:22:36 | amiconn | What about the old installer? |
| 14:23:05 | amiconn | The Innosetup based one |
| 14:23:27 | rasher | I don't know why that was abandoned. |
| 14:23:27 | bluebrother | is it possible extending inno setup to do stuff like firmware patching? |
| 14:24:55 | | Quit Nibbier (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 14:25:00 | | Nick rconan_ is now known as rconan (n=richard@82-46-100-113.cable.ubr08.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 14:26:10 | amiconn | bluebrother: Not innosetup itself, that's a script controlled installer. But innosetup could lauch tools |
| 14:27:13 | | Join Gnelik [0] (n=Miranda@193.110.17.4) |
| 14:29:12 | | Join NickDe [0] (n=nicholas@198.7.236.202) |
| 14:29:59 | | Quit amigan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 14:32:14 | | Quit VOYEUR ("CGI:IRC") |
| 14:32:46 | linuxstb | The ipodwizard Rockbox installer also uses some kind of generic install system, but I forget which one. |
| 14:33:25 | rasher | Nsis? |
| 14:33:34 | linuxstb | Maybe. |
| 14:34:02 | linuxstb | How about "DesktopApplications" for your wiki page? It doesn't need Rockbox in the name. |
| 14:34:21 | rasher | true |
| 14:34:43 | | Quit Gnelik (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 14:34:50 | rasher | I'm already writing on RockboxTools, but I'll abandon that once I'm ready to save |
| 14:36:33 | linuxstb | amiconn: Did the old innosetup installer have the capability to download things from the web? Or is everything bundled with the installer? |
| 14:36:35 | rasher | Wow, watching the ipodwizard forums, I think I lost several IQ points |
| 14:37:22 | linuxstb | Try forums.ilounge.com... |
| 14:38:25 | | Join timing [0] (i=timing@regina.org.uk) |
| 14:39:01 | rasher | It is nsis indeed. |
| 14:39:17 | timing | hello, why is directory caching not set to On as default setting? |
| 14:39:44 | timing | the slowlyness of the dirlisting speed might scare users? |
| 14:40:09 | | Join EspeonEefi [0] (i=espeonee@STRATTON-FOUR-THIRTY-NINE.MIT.EDU) |
| 14:40:14 | rasher | I think it's mainly because of the devices with low RAM, so as to not eat that |
| 14:40:34 | rasher | Using 500kb to speed up browsing might not be a problem with 32mb ram, but it is if you only have 2MB |
| 14:41:01 | timing | well ram size can be detected? |
| 14:41:29 | * | Bagder never uses dir cache... |
| 14:41:40 | timing | Bagder: why not? |
| 14:41:43 | preglow | i actually think dircache should be default on non-archos stuff |
| 14:41:51 | Bagder | because I don't benefit from it |
| 14:41:52 | rasher | I think it'd be a sensible default for devices with >8mb |
| 14:42:16 | timing | Bagder: yeah what makes it a non benefit option for you then? |
| 14:42:20 | rasher | I'm not even sure if I have it on or off at the moment. |
| 14:42:22 | preglow | i'd go insane if the disk had to spin up all the time when browsing now after using dircache for a year |
| 14:42:28 | Bagder | timing: ? |
| 14:42:30 | rasher | timing: If you browse very little, you don't need it |
| 14:42:34 | Bagder | I don't browse a lot |
| 14:42:36 | timing | ah yeah |
| 14:42:38 | timing | ah okay |
| 14:42:46 | rasher | And then it just takes up buffer space |
| 14:43:01 | | Quit [sellout] (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 14:43:04 | rasher | But still, I think those who don't need it are a minority, and would mostly know to disable it |
| 14:43:14 | preglow | yes |
| 14:43:17 | Bagder | yes I guess |
| 14:44:20 | rasher | The last point being fairly important |
| 14:45:08 | | Quit bluebrother ("CGI:IRC") |
| 14:48:05 | timing | are there good EQ presents? |
| 14:48:14 | timing | my EQ preset list is empty |
| 14:48:18 | | Join Nibbier [0] (n=sven@port-212-202-78-72.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 14:48:31 | amiconn | linuxstb: Everything is bundled. I don't know whether innosetup is capable of downloading from the web |
| 14:49:05 | rasher | timing: I believe resent builds include some EQ presets. Whether they are any good is up to you to decide. |
| 14:49:17 | amiconn | rasher: Dircahce isn't built into the archos version |
| 14:53:52 | rasher | Figures |
| 14:53:57 | rasher | That just makes it easier |
| 14:54:28 | rasher | I really think dircache should default to on, since most users will benefit, and those who'd rather be without it, are likely to know how |
| 14:56:25 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:56:58 | preglow | aye, aye |
| 14:59:06 | * | linuxstb agrees |
| 14:59:19 | rasher | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DesktopTools |
| 14:59:26 | rasher | I probably left out a ton |
| 14:59:33 | linuxstb | There's probably other features we could enable by default - most new features seem to be disabled when they're added. |
| 14:59:49 | | Join webguest30 [0] (i=c27f0812@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session) |
| 15:00 |
| 15:00:31 | rasher | It would be nice if all you had to do to enable tag cache was to switch to "ID3 Database" (why is it still called that again?) |
| 15:00:46 | rasher | And it'd build if it wasn't ready, after asking of course |
| 15:01:42 | Bagder | I vote for not calling it tag cache too ;-) |
| 15:02:07 | preglow | oh yes |
| 15:02:07 | | Join bbroke [0] (n=bbroke@promi22.zmms.TU-Berlin.DE) |
| 15:02:33 | | Part daurn ("So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish!") |
| 15:02:58 | rasher | I think I translated it to something horrible like "Infodatabase" (and fixed the inconsistency) |
| 15:03:20 | preglow | what do apple call it? :> |
| 15:03:30 | rasher | "The only thing you get"? |
| 15:03:40 | rasher | I doubt they call it anything |
| 15:04:15 | preglow | yes, i figured, but worth a shot |
| 15:04:42 | rasher | If memory serves, you own a nano, go find out |
| 15:05:18 | preglow | my nano doesn't really help me much in that endeavour |
| 15:05:28 | preglow | it doesn't have much apple related stuff on it |
| 15:06:04 | LinusN | i think "database view" and "file view" sounds ok |
| 15:06:14 | preglow | and i agree completely, sounds nice |
| 15:06:44 | * | Bagder agrees |
| 15:06:48 | rasher | And the menu under file view could simply be... "Database"? |
| 15:06:55 | LinusN | yes |
| 15:07:24 | rasher | I don't see how anyone could misunderstand that. It's a database of your songs, what else? |
| 15:07:30 | Bagder | and tag cache would be "database" |
| 15:07:35 | LinusN | exactly |
| 15:07:48 | LinusN | nice and simple |
| 15:08:14 | rasher | How elusively siple |
| 15:08:21 | rasher | That's probably not a real word. |
| 15:08:40 | jhMikeS | All Your Base |
| 15:08:45 | LinusN | lol |
| 15:10:52 | preglow | almost makes me wish we had svn, so we could rename tagcache.c ! |
| 15:10:56 | | Quit EspeonEefi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 15:15:28 | * | rasher cooks up a tagcache > database patch |
| 15:15:38 | rasher | Should I rename the files as well? |
| 15:15:46 | LinusN | wait with that |
| 15:15:49 | | Join lowlight [0] (i=c730180a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session) |
| 15:16:03 | jhMikeS | testing all the builds after organizing firmware/SOURCES is tedious :P |
| 15:16:16 | LinusN | rasher: make sure you include the manual in the patch |
| 15:16:19 | amiconn | jhMikeS: cygwin? |
| 15:16:38 | jhMikeS | no vmware |
| 15:17:25 | | Join lee-qid [0] (n=liqid@p54964FB8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:17:33 | rasher | LinusN: way ahead of you. That's what made me wonder about the files, since they're mentioned in the manual |
| 15:17:37 | rasher | but I guess that'll wait |
| 15:17:52 | | Nick HCl_ is now known as HCl (i=hcl@hecate.student.ipv6.utwente.nl) |
| 15:17:58 | | Join Paul_the_Nerd [0] (n=Llorean@cpe-66-69-210-194.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 15:18:08 | jhMikeS | wish we had a quick way to set up all builds and run a make command on all of them, or is that one of those things I don't know yet? |
| 15:18:12 | LinusN | rasher: aha, you mean the database files |
| 15:18:20 | rasher | Yeah |
| 15:18:25 | Bagder | "all" builds are quite a few... |
| 15:18:34 | Bagder | the 53 in the CVS build round aren't _all_ |
| 15:18:40 | LinusN | rasher: i think we could rename those |
| 15:19:10 | rasher | Okay, I'll get right on it, they're simply #defines, so shouldn't be a problem |
| 15:19:19 | rasher | Except that people will have to rename or rebuild |
| 15:19:26 | jhMikeS | I counted 76 if I got _all_ the folders created in advance |
| 15:19:40 | Bagder | hehe |
| 15:19:50 | jhMikeS | most of the way through though |
| 15:20:36 | jhMikeS | really only have to do make bin |
| 15:20:37 | amiconn | If you really want all, I'd expect more than just 76 |
| 15:20:45 | rasher | lowlight: I created a patch to accept a root dir argument for the sim |
| 15:20:51 | jhMikeS | anything in the configure menu that is |
| 15:21:20 | | Quit lowlight ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 15:21:24 | jhMikeS | not the debugs and all that since the source selection is basically by bootloader and simulator |
| 15:22:50 | amiconn | Ah, no , they're less |
| 15:23:14 | amiconn | (not counting dead and experimental versions) |
| 15:23:17 | Bagder | there are 25 targets (some can be ignored), then there are simulators, bootloaders and different ram sizes (in various combos) |
| 15:23:20 | | Join lowlight [0] (i=c730180a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session) |
| 15:23:52 | amiconn | 19 targets * 3 types (target, bootloader, sim) |
| 15:23:53 | lowlight | rasher: nice...I'll try to test it out later |
| 15:24:11 | amiconn | (not counting the ram sizes as well) |
| 15:24:55 | amiconn | I left out: all Gmini, iFP, Gigabeat, Sansa and Elio |
| 15:24:58 | jhMikeS | I wasn't counting things that don't vary the sources used |
| 15:25:14 | rasher | I don't think gmini can be considered a target by now.. |
| 15:25:47 | rasher | Alright, Tag Cache -> Database patch: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6306 |
| 15:25:54 | jhMikeS | Some things just don't have things implemented and don't compile anyway |
| 15:25:55 | | Join _FireFly_ [0] (n=FireFly@fhrouter83.fh-wuerzburg.de) |
| 15:26:09 | lowlight | Slasheri: tagcache question... |
| 15:26:20 | lowlight | Slasheri: in check_dir won't there be problems with the recursion if curpath gets truncated in add_tagcache (during ADD_TAG)? |
| 15:29:59 | lowlight | Slaheri: after calling get_metadata, why not use id3.path instead of "path", the strncpy in get_metadata will truncate the "path" if it was too long. |
| 15:33:06 | jhMikeS | I know know if it people find it irritating in any way to have every #endif marked with what #if* it ends. I find it helps to not get lost. |
| 15:33:32 | jhMikeS | I don't know even |
| 15:34:35 | rasher | "[Sun] is very close to announcing that it will put the mobile (ME) and standard (SE) editions of the Java platform into the GNU General Public License (GPL)" |
| 15:34:41 | rasher | J2me on Rockbox! |
| 15:34:59 | Bagder | jhMikeS: I think that's a good habit |
| 15:35:15 | rasher | Or whatever the standard is called. |
| 15:36:10 | * | Bagder has no clue |
| 15:36:17 | Bagder | where java enters, I leave ;-) |
| 15:36:25 | Kasperle | rasher: iirc you can get the sourcecode for a j2me jvm already from sun |
| 15:36:48 | jhMikeS | Bagder: It's one I obey quite strictly as well as marking the the closing brace of a function with a comment containing the function name. That helps on really long ones imo to see what it is without having to scroll to the begining. Maybe just neurosis? :) |
| 15:36:48 | Bagder | but hardly GPL compatible? |
| 15:37:07 | Bagder | or a sign of age? ;-) |
| 15:37:48 | rasher | Kasperle: wouldn't be able to use it in Rockbox though, as Bagder says |
| 15:38:25 | | Part LinusN |
| 15:38:53 | rasher | Of course, it'd probably still be a cold day in hell the day someone manages to persuade the J2ME code to compile and run on Rockbox |
| 15:39:09 | Kasperle | rasher, Bagder: you're probably not allowed to distribute it, but people could build their own jvm to run on rockbox? |
| 15:39:16 | Bagder | true |
| 15:40:52 | | Join yksi [0] (n=Erwin@134.76.25.72) |
| 15:41:21 | Paul_the_Nerd | Kasperle: I'm sure someone will take up the torch once it's GPL, then put it down, then slowly let it whimper out while insisting they're making progress. :-P |
| 15:41:33 | yksi | hello rockboxers |
| 15:42:04 | | Quit webguest30 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 15:43:30 | Kasperle | Paul_the_Nerd: hehe ;) |
| 15:44:00 | Bagder | I'd guess we'll actually have wma support before that happens! ;-P |
| 15:44:07 | Paul_the_Nerd | Hahaha |
| 15:44:07 | * | jhMikeS isn't the vaporware kind of guy, just the week late kind :P |
| 15:44:38 | Paul_the_Nerd | I'm not too trustful of the HFS+ guy either. |
| 15:44:42 | Kasperle | compiling the cvm is a pain as it is, even on linux. at least it was a pain 3 years ago |
| 15:44:50 | | Quit Nibbier (Remote closed the connection) |
| 15:45:05 | jhMikeS | so Duke Nukem's being ported to rocbox I hear? |
| 15:45:15 | | Join Nibbier [0] (n=sven@port-212-202-78-72.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 15:45:27 | | Quit yksi ("Verlassend") |
| 15:46:43 | rasher | Paul_the_Nerd: where's this guy? |
| 15:46:44 | | Join EspeonEefi [0] (i=espeonee@STRATTON-ONE-TWENTY-TWO.MIT.EDU) |
| 15:46:50 | | Quit GreyFoux ("Le vrai danger, c'est quand les hommes penseront comme les ordinateurs") |
| 15:47:10 | rasher | Ah, a video.. because we all know videos prove everything. |
| 15:47:51 | rasher | "when i took the source and looked at it, the answer became obvious, it's rather simple, but a bitch to actually get working" |
| 15:47:58 | rasher | That sounds like someone pretending to be a coder |
| 15:48:24 | Paul_the_Nerd | Especially since I *think* it'd be fairly easy to fake it. |
| 15:48:26 | rasher | But I guess time will tell. |
| 15:48:50 | Paul_the_Nerd | I mean, I know it'd be fairly easy to fake it, but I think it'd be fairly easy for someone to have no programming knowledge at all and still fake it. |
| 15:49:05 | | Part timing |
| 15:49:34 | | Join minDscrm [0] (n=mindscrm@dialup-4.224.237.131.Dial1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net) |
| 15:50:05 | rasher | "maybe you should tell the rockbox people, then force people to join this forum to get rockbox on their macpods" haha |
| 15:51:13 | | Quit rconan (Client Quit) |
| 15:52:39 | | Join n1s [0] (n=nils@nl104-202-175.student.uu.se) |
| 15:52:59 | * | Bagder looks at the "move of the impossible" |
| 15:53:02 | Bagder | movie even |
| 15:53:11 | rasher | Might as well just have two ipods in that video. The fact that he bothered with music and intro text seems to indicate that it's pure rubbish |
| 15:54:06 | rasher | I'm getting motionsick. Damn |
| 15:54:10 | Bagder | indeed |
| 15:54:15 | Bagder | I'll faint soon |
| 15:54:36 | | Join rconan [0] (n=richard@82-46-100-113.cable.ubr08.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 15:54:37 | rasher | I predict he'll have a harddisk crash soon and "not bother" doing it again or something like that |
| 15:54:43 | Bagder | hahaha |
| 15:55:42 | rasher | Of course, he's more than welcome to prove me wrong, but I see no reason to believe him yet. |
| 15:56:05 | linuxstb | I think a HFS+ driver would be pretty easy to spot in the source tree... |
| 15:56:37 | lowlight | gah...flickr files patent for "interestingness" |
| 15:56:59 | rasher | Oh god. |
| 15:57:01 | Paul_the_Nerd | Nah |
| 15:57:29 | Paul_the_Nerd | It sounds more like they've patented a means of searching/sorting based on perceived interestingness of a file determined by user created metadata. |
| 15:57:44 | rasher | Wow, I think jhMikeS was close to a new record on the build table |
| 15:57:59 | jhMikeS | only close? dang |
| 15:58:16 | Paul_the_Nerd | rasher: I think the guy's already pulled his "I'm not going to work on it any more stunt" or something, seeing the thread in their forum. |
| 15:58:19 | rasher | I believe preglow broke 10k once. With less builds even. |
| 15:58:46 | | Quit rconan (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:59:22 | rasher | Paul_the_Nerd: In an extremely transparent way, too |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:06 | | Join rconan [0] (n=richard@82-46-100-113.cable.ubr08.azte.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 16:00:16 | Paul_the_Nerd | "I don't like this guy, so he ruined it for all of you." Heh |
| 16:00:49 | | Quit _FireFly_ ("Leaving") |
| 16:00:54 | rasher | Should probably just delete the thread in the forum |
| 16:01:33 | Bagder | maybe in his time zone it was april first? ;-) |
| 16:01:48 | Paul_the_Nerd | I'll give it a couple weeks. I don't like deleting threads in general, but if it starts to cause any sort of problem I will do something about the thread. |
| 16:02:16 | Paul_the_Nerd | Just because I don't trust people doesn't mean they're *all* liars. Just most of them. |
| 16:02:28 | Paul_the_Nerd | Oh, wait, no, that was yesterday. |
| 16:04:23 | lowlight | woot...nice image..it's like flickr was reading my brain... http://www.flickr.com/explore/interesting/ |
| 16:06:23 | * | rasher has been using a windows program to cycle through the top-100 pictures from flickr for desktop background |
| 16:06:42 | rasher | It's pretty neat. Now I want to write something like it for linux |
| 16:07:50 | Paul_the_Nerd | rasher: Can it be pointed at individual aspects of Flickr, like a single set from your own collection? |
| 16:08:19 | rasher | Not sure it can be quite that specific, let me check |
| 16:08:31 | rasher | Oh yes, it can |
| 16:08:42 | rasher | Or specific search words (for one person, or everyone) |
| 16:09:00 | rasher | Or tags.. or a person's favourites.. |
| 16:09:02 | lowlight | I believe there's a flickr perl module |
| 16:09:19 | rasher | There's probably a flickr everything module by now |
| 16:10:09 | rasher | Paul_the_Nerd: http://www.johnsadventures.com/backend/BackgroundSwitcher/ (free as in beer, but requires .Net) |
| 16:10:24 | rasher | The installer will download .net if you don't have it. |
| 16:10:58 | lowlight | looks like they have everything but a Rockbox plugin...http://www.flickr.com/services/api/ |
| 16:13:06 | Paul_the_Nerd | rasher: I have .net, since it's necessary for the XNA toolkit. |
| 16:13:11 | | Join _FireFly_ [0] (n=FireFly@fhrouter83.fh-wuerzburg.de) |
| 16:13:26 | | Quit _FireFly_ (Client Quit) |
| 16:13:30 | Slasheri | lowlight: yes, true. That needs to be fixed |
| 16:13:37 | Slasheri | lowlight: id3.path can be truncated as well |
| 16:14:08 | | Quit Schnueff ("leaving") |
| 16:15:08 | rasher | Help. The awesome power of the recursive acronym has fallen into the hands of Microsoft. |
| 16:15:15 | rasher | XNA's Not Acronymed |
| 16:16:16 | preglow | no112¤#!"1111 |
| 16:16:18 | Paul_the_Nerd | Hahaha |
| 16:16:32 | preglow | god salvage me from acrynyms |
| 16:20:39 | rasher | Oh man. Now I've gone and messed my windows sims up. |
| 16:20:47 | Paul_the_Nerd | Oops |
| 16:20:48 | rasher | Because I edited the sourcetree while they were building. |
| 16:21:15 | rasher | So half of them will have tag cache named database, the other half will not. |
| 16:21:36 | rasher | well, maybe. Perhaps they were already done. |
| 16:23:48 | lowlight | Slasheri: yes, my point was that id3.path will be truncated since only the first MAX_PATH characters will be copied from curpath. But it's also a safe buffer to modify, unlike curpath. |
| 16:23:59 | | Quit NickDe ("Leaving") |
| 16:24:10 | amiconn | jhMikeS: I don't mark *evry* endif with what #if it belongs to, only those with more than a couple of lines inbetween |
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| 16:24:46 | lowlight | Slasheri: any reason *all* tags need to be less than MAX_PATH-32? |
| 16:24:49 | Kasperle | regarding java, seen this: https://opensource.luminis.net/confluence/display/WONKA/Home ? |
| 16:25:09 | amiconn | ...and I never put comments at the end of a function |
| 16:25:13 | Kasperle | also http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2646283822.html |
| 16:25:46 | Slasheri | lowlight: nope, i don't remember why i choose that value, it was some safety margin |
| 16:26:27 | | Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection) |
| 16:30:06 | | Quit rconan (Client Quit) |
| 16:31:21 | markun | I include system-arm.c with a UIE function in SOURCES, is does get compiled but it still complains that it UIE can't be found. It's also not in the map file. What am I doing wrong? |
| 16:32:22 | amiconn | Perhaps asking the obvious, but there's not a 'static' in front of it by accident? |
| 16:32:54 | markun | in front of UIE? |
| 16:32:59 | amiconn | yes |
| 16:33:03 | markun | no: void UIE(unsigned int pc, unsigned int num) |
| 16:33:43 | markun | I also have a system-pp5020.c. If I put the UIE function in there it all works fine |
| 16:34:44 | markun | system-arm.c does get compiled. |
| 16:37:19 | jhMikeS | amiconn: I went with that for awhile myself but then I wanted it marked for when it's no longer just a couple lines or else it may never get marked :\ |
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| 16:39:55 | blue_lizard | if i use lcd_putsxy and after it mess around with gui_bitmap_scrollbar_draw or gui_scrollbar_draw do i still need lcd_update() afterwards? |
| 16:40:19 | markun | amiconn: It's probably something small I overlooked, but very frustrating |
| 16:40:24 | blue_lizard | or is an update included in the gui_ stuff |
| 16:43:16 | | Quit lowlight ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 16:43:35 | | Quit rconan (Client Quit) |
| 16:44:19 | rasher | I wonder if any programs such as Amarok would be interested in adding tagcache support along with their ipod support |
| 16:44:29 | rasher | I'm sorry "Database" support |
| 16:44:33 | Paul_the_Nerd | hehehe |
| 16:45:14 | blue_lizard | it would be nich if such programs would have some plugin mechanism |
| 16:45:23 | rasher | Most do |
| 16:45:29 | | Join perpleXa [0] (n=perpleXa@unaffiliated/perplexa) |
| 16:45:37 | blue_lizard | so one could make the tagcache bevore and also resize the cover art and such |
| 16:45:42 | rasher | Banshee, Rythmbox and Amarok all do, afaik |
| 16:46:03 | Kasperle | weee. apparently i patched ipod loader 2 to boot rockbox on the 5.5g :D |
| 16:47:09 | rasher | Still only 30gig? |
| 16:47:14 | Kasperle | yeah |
| 16:47:46 | Kasperle | i have no 80 gig ipod ;) |
| 16:48:38 | Kasperle | though i'm wondering whether i'm booting it off the fat or ext2 partition. i fear the rockbox image is on the ext2 partition :/ |
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| 16:56:26 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 17:00 |
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| 17:19:16 | preglow | w00t |
| 17:20:25 | markun | preglow: what? |
| 17:21:44 | linuxstb | markun: Have you tried a "make clean" (your UIE problem)? |
| 17:22:00 | markun | linuxstb: rm -R * and tools/configure.. :( |
| 17:22:46 | markun | There is a system-arm.o which gets linked and I checked with objdump that it contains UIE |
| 17:23:06 | jhMikeS | I always forget cvs add on something! :( |
| 17:24:41 | markun | jhMikeS: thanks for tidying SOURCES a bit |
| 17:24:47 | preglow | markun: just a general commit w00t |
| 17:24:49 | jhMikeS | np |
| 17:25:09 | linuxstb | markun: Are there any other functions defined in system-arm.c? |
| 17:25:54 | markun | no |
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| 17:28:40 | amiconn | jhMikeS: Where did the stuff from power.c go? |
| 17:29:07 | | Quit perpleXa ("Leaving") |
| 17:29:33 | jhMikeS | nothing for coldfire in power.c was needed. it was all in the target dir already |
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| 17:31:43 | linuxstb | markun: Which file does ld refer to when it tells you that UIE can not be found? Maybe the problem is in that file. |
| 17:32:04 | amiconn | ok |
| 17:32:32 | markun | LD rockbox.elf |
| 17:32:32 | markun | /usr/home/markun/tmp/src/rockbox/rockbox-commit/build/ipod5g/firmware/target/arm/crt0-pp.o: In function `undef_instr_handler': |
| 17:32:36 | markun | target/arm/crt0-pp.S:(.text+0x8): undefined reference to `UIE' |
| 17:33:02 | markun | but when I move UIE to system-pp5020.c I don't get this error |
| 17:33:55 | amiconn | Is UIE defined as extern in crt0-pp.S ? |
| 17:34:23 | markun | also apps/rockbox.map doesn't include system-arm.o, but it does include system-pp5020.o |
| 17:35:02 | markun | amiconn, linuxstb: maybe this helps: http://130.89.160.166/Gigabeat/out.txt |
| 17:35:17 | linuxstb | Why are you using the crt0-pp.S file anyway? Shouldn't you use target/arm/crt0.S ? |
| 17:36:13 | amiconn | markun: In crt0-pp.S, try changing line 319 to read: |
| 17:36:17 | amiconn | .extern UIE |
| 17:36:46 | amiconn | The .global is wrong afaiu, and it just worked by coincidence |
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| 17:37:38 | | Quit tim66 (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 17:37:45 | markun | linuxstb: I don't know. Didn't think I changed it to use crt0-pp.S |
| 17:37:55 | markun | amiconn: same problem |
| 17:38:04 | amiconn | Hmno, that is within #ifdef BOOTLOADER |
| 17:38:08 | linuxstb | markun: Looking at your out.txt, are you compiling for the gigabeat or the ipod5g? |
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| 17:38:40 | markun | linuxstb: ipod5g. Should have put it in my rockbox folder instead of Gigabeat |
| 17:38:44 | amiconn | No, it's not, hrmph |
| 17:39:15 | amiconn | It's a case of misleading #endif comment |
| 17:40:26 | markun | I can commit it with UIE in the various system-*.c files and not in sytem-arm.c |
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| 18:00 |
| 18:01:24 | | Nick hannesd_ is now known as hannesd (n=light@gate-hannes-tdsl.imos.net) |
| 18:02:15 | | Quit nudelyn (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) |
| 18:02:31 | | Join Deef [0] (n=sdf@210-84-17-80.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
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| 18:04:36 | Deef | Hmm |
| 18:04:48 | Deef | My H300 can play playlists saved from Winamp |
| 18:04:59 | Deef | But Winamp can not play playlists saved by my H300 |
| 18:05:04 | Deef | But WMP can |
| 18:05:08 | Deef | :( |
| 18:05:45 | markun | Deef: maybe winamp expects backslashes in the path? |
| 18:06:44 | | Join Id2ndR [0] (n=ubuntu@laf31-2-62-34-88-193.dsl.club-internet.fr) |
| 18:08:35 | linuxstb | Deef: I don't know if it could cause problems, but do your filenames have non-ASCII characters? |
| 18:08:58 | Deef | nah |
| 18:09:14 | Deef | Its what markun said by the looks of it |
| 18:10:47 | Deef | Rockbox uses forward slashes.. so Winamp changes Drive:/Music/Games/Sonic/Icecap.mp3 to Drive:\Playlists\/Music/Games/Sonic/Icecap.mp3 |
| 18:11:14 | Deef | Throws in the playlists directory for some reason, and that nasty \/ |
| 18:13:29 | jhMikeS | hrm..left in something in a header that I was gonna move but didn't :-\ |
| 18:13:39 | Deef | Just using relative addressing.. even though it doesn't save that way |
| 18:14:04 | bluebrother | Deef, you could try running the iriverify plugin on that playlists. |
| 18:14:23 | Deef | What does the plugin do? |
| 18:14:45 | bluebrother | it converts playlists to the iriver format which uses backslashes instead of slashes |
| 18:14:47 | Deef | The files are all good.. I edited the playlist to add a .. at the start of each path, and Winamp is happy with that |
| 18:14:52 | Deef | ah |
| 18:15:02 | bluebrother | maybe that's sufficient |
| 18:15:43 | Deef | Yup by the looks of it |
| 18:15:48 | Deef | A plugin for Rockbox? |
| 18:16:06 | bluebrother | yes. Just use the "open with" menu |
| 18:16:10 | Deef | So it can be done on the player? |
| 18:16:12 | Deef | .. sweet |
| 18:16:13 | Deef | goodo |
| 18:16:39 | bluebrother | yeah ... but I never tried, no idea if this is sufficient for winamp. |
| 18:17:16 | Deef | It should be, I just switched the first forwardslash of a path to a backslash and that was enough to get Winamp playing |
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| 18:25:13 | Deef | Thanks for that |
| 18:26:33 | * | Deef wonders why Rockbox uses forward slashes |
| 18:26:37 | Deef | Linux |
| 18:26:37 | Deef | ? |
| 18:27:51 | jhMikeS | Does running rockbox from flash actually work for the h100 series? |
| 18:28:20 | linuxstb | Works for me on my H140. It makes debugging new builds a little annoying - you need to either flash it, or remember to hold REC whilst booting to load the disk version. |
| 18:28:28 | | Quit spiorf (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
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| 18:28:42 | linuxstb | (or rolo the disk version after booting from flash) |
| 18:28:55 | linuxstb | But it seems to work well, and bootup is very fast. |
| 18:30:05 | jhMikeS | detect_flashed_rockbox seems to be a general purpose function. Perhaps I should use HAVE_FLASHED_ROCKBOX in system.c instead of model to select it. #define in the config file. |
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| 18:38:47 | jhMikeS | bootup is pretty fast as it is. maybe should do one up for the x5. that's a another story |
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| 18:43:54 | | Part linuxstb |
| 18:44:32 | Kasperle | in my original firmware image (ipod 5.5g, 30gb), i have some data at offset 0x4800, and then at offset 0x5000 i'll get some data containing strings like "portalplayer 0.0", a build number, copyright notice, whereas with the patched ipod_fw i get nothing at offset 0x4800, but the stuff at offset 0x5000 looks similar. does anyone know what that data between 0x4800 and 0x5000 is, and whether it's needed at all? |
| 18:46:52 | | Join spiorf [0] (n=spiorf@host52-146.pool8250.interbusiness.it) |
| 18:47:20 | jhMikeS | main needs target/ing as well... |
| 18:50:26 | * | amiconn deems non-flashed bootup rather slow |
| 18:50:34 | amiconn | _especially_ on iriver |
| 18:51:25 | jhMikeS | it's faster than iAudio for sure. barely get to look at the logo. |
| 18:51:27 | amiconn | ipod appears to be faster (with of removed) |
| 18:52:01 | amiconn | jhMikeS: Yes, the logo only shows up for a short time. But it takes quite a while until the logo appears |
| 18:52:03 | | Join secleinteer [0] (n=scl@adsl-70-237-141-204.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:52:44 | jhMikeS | 6-7 seconds vs. 9-10 for iAudio |
| 18:53:07 | amiconn | Yes, perhaps I am spoiled. I'm used to boot times of 3..5 seconds |
| 18:53:10 | jhMikeS | I think having a voice file present might have something to do with it though |
| 18:53:22 | amiconn | That is on archos, flashed |
| 18:53:34 | | Join obo [0] (n=obo@82-46-82-224.cable.ubr02.trow.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:53:55 | amiconn | And the most convenient thing is that it already starts to register keypresses 0.5 seconds after power on |
| 18:53:57 | jhMikeS | I used to not see the logo on iRiver except a ghost |
| 18:54:42 | jhMikeS | heh...so you can queue up to your song before rb is finished |
| 18:56:06 | jhMikeS | with OF on x5 you usually fall asleep and forget why you turned it on in the first place |
| 18:56:11 | | Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
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| 18:56:29 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 18:57:12 | amiconn | I can power on and push resume |
| 18:58:56 | | Join barrywardell [0] (i=892b7bf0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-c81b8d383b28e1ed) |
| 18:59:45 | jhMikeS | I'm not in the resume club. If I stopped something it's because I didn't want to hear more of it. |
| 19:00 |
| 19:00:56 | | Join TeaSeaLancs [0] (n=thunderc@82.152.192.190) |
| 19:02:23 | jhMikeS | One thing I miss in CoWon OF is that the current browse folder follows the playback. Would like to do something to enable that behavior (optionally). |
| 19:02:28 | amiconn | Hehe, you never stop because you arrived somewhere? |
| 19:03:01 | jhMikeS | I don't use it in the car...it's for relaxing |
| 19:03:35 | amiconn | I never used the cowon of... |
| 19:04:09 | jhMikeS | It did have that one thing which was nice and maybe the backlight off power flick |
| 19:04:53 | * | jhMikeS notices people talk about OF in the past tense a lot |
| 19:05:48 | * | amiconn didn't use the OF for more than a few hours on the majority of his targets |
| 19:06:15 | amiconn | Only one of them... because back then I didn't know about rockbox |
| 19:08:05 | amiconn | And the only OF I do use occasionally is the H300 OF... for usbotg |
| 19:09:19 | jhMikeS | same and only reason I use x5 OF |
| 19:09:58 | Lear | jhmikes: follows playback even while in the browser? |
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| 19:18:25 | jhMikeS | Lear: No...if you're say on the WPS and want to browse, it will start with the current file playing selected or something like that |
| 19:18:46 | Lear | Well, RB has something close to that... |
| 19:18:59 | Lear | Same folder, at least. |
| 19:20:07 | jhMikeS | Could be good enough but never really looked into it. I've got directories that have 100s of files (they should be laid out like that) and having the file selected would be a boon too. |
| 19:20:41 | amiconn | Rockbox does select the current file when going to the browser |
| 19:20:46 | amiconn | It's an option though |
| 19:20:56 | Lear | Yep, see "Follow Playlist". |
| 19:21:01 | amiconn | Some people prefer the browser to always start in the root |
| 19:21:47 | | Quit barrywardell ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 19:21:49 | jhMikeS | I'd like personally a certain keypress to do it or leave where I left off like to keep holding select for a certain time. |
| 19:21:53 | | Quit rconan (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
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| 19:23:58 | jhMikeS | I might have tried it way back and forgotten about it :P |
| 19:26:53 | | Join Ribs2 [0] (n=freenode@91.84.8.218) |
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| 19:29:12 | | Part pixelma |
| 19:29:51 | barrywardell_ | does anybody here have a PP5022.mi4 from an 8GB Sansa? |
| 19:30:18 | * | Paul_the_Nerd bought his 6gb shortly before the 8 was announced. :( |
| 19:30:32 | Paul_the_Nerd | I didn't know they had a different firmware, though |
| 19:30:42 | * | jhMikeS needs to put in a trap to make sure anything other than playback using the audio buffer calls audio_get_buffer first once audio is initialized |
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| 19:31:04 | barrywardell_ | they might be the same, i'm not sure |
| 19:31:13 | Paul_the_Nerd | I bet they are. |
| 19:31:23 | Paul_the_Nerd | I know that the 2, 4, and 6 were. |
| 19:31:30 | jhMikeS | they might be giants and what are we gonna do unless they are? |
| 19:31:31 | Paul_the_Nerd | And isn't the difference in function on the 4/6 line? |
| 19:31:43 | barrywardell_ | mine was version 1.02.12 i think. not sure if it makes much difference |
| 19:32:11 | barrywardell_ | the sansa updater sandisk provides only works with windows :( |
| 19:32:49 | Paul_the_Nerd | Yeah, I wish they hadn't moved to an updater. :( |
| 19:33:06 | | Quit Ribs (Nick collision from services.) |
| 19:33:07 | | Nick Ribs2 is now known as Ribs (n=freenode@91.84.8.218) |
| 19:33:11 | Paul_the_Nerd | I seem to be using 01.00.12A |
| 19:33:51 | barrywardell_ | I was testing dan_a's ata code and can't find the backup I made of the PP5022.mi4 |
| 19:34:44 | barrywardell_ | Paul_the_Nerd: that's the same as on Bagder's site I think. I'm not sure if a newer firmware is needed for the newer 8GB model though |
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| 19:35:34 | jhMikeS | weird, did one commit and got a double...was waiting for CVS lock in firmware/export |
| 19:35:56 | Paul_the_Nerd | barrywardell_: I don't know. :( |
| 19:36:38 | rasher | How does HAVE_FLASHED_ROCKBOX work with the Archoses? |
| 19:38:08 | jhMikeS | It doesn't. It was only relevant to the one targets that used the function detect_flashed_rockbox, H100 series |
| 19:39:01 | rasher | So not all targets that are flashable define HAVE_FLASHED_ROCKBOX? |
| 19:39:17 | jhMikeS | No, but I guess they could use it now |
| 19:39:25 | rasher | Just seems like it could cause some confusion |
| 19:40:49 | jhMikeS | Should've been clearer in the -m then |
| 19:42:51 | jhMikeS | It's just that specifying features for the higher level code tends to clean things up a lot. If it needs an #ifdef with a specific port it probably target/ material. |
| 19:53:13 | Paul_the_Nerd | Well, there's no guarantee that it'll stay for H100, or even Coldfire targets. |
| 19:54:07 | jhMikeS | Paul_the_Nerd: the ability to flash rockbox? |
| 19:55:06 | | Quit thegeek (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 19:55:34 | Paul_the_Nerd | jhMikeS: Yes. |
| 19:56:23 | jhMikeS | Paul_the_Nerd: I was actually considering adding it to x5. It's a rather slow booter and I hate to have that flash memory going to waste. |
| 19:56:40 | Paul_the_Nerd | That's a coldfire. :-P |
| 19:56:47 | jhMikeS | I know |
| 19:56:56 | Paul_the_Nerd | But yeah, I hear it's a nice feature. |
| 19:57:12 | jhMikeS | Wonder what the point in taking it out altogether would be |
| 19:57:57 | Paul_the_Nerd | Taking it out altogether? |
| 19:58:06 | jhMikeS | For coldfire |
| 19:58:27 | Paul_the_Nerd | I'm confused. |
| 19:58:36 | Paul_the_Nerd | Taking the ability to flash out? |
| 19:58:43 | | Join thegeek [0] (n=thegeek@s026b.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 19:58:55 | jhMikeS | me too...you said there's no guarantee that it'll stay got H100 or even Coldfire targets. |
| 19:59:04 | jhMikeS | for H100 |
| 19:59:48 | Paul_the_Nerd | I meant that there's no guarantee that it'll *only* be on those |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:01 | jhMikeS | Ahh... |
| 20:00:04 | Paul_the_Nerd | You seemed to be talking about moving it into the /target/ areas, and I was saying it's a more global thing, at least in potential. |
| 20:00:37 | jhMikeS | no...that's was just a statement about the reason to define things in terms of features |
| 20:00:45 | Paul_the_Nerd | Ah |
| 20:01:06 | jhMikeS | your point was the entire point of the change :D |
| 20:01:42 | Paul_the_Nerd | :) |
| 20:01:46 | | Quit chaebi (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 20:02:02 | Paul_the_Nerd | Congratulations to us for failing to communicate clearly. |
| 20:04:46 | | Join dan_a [0] (n=dan-mirc@217.23.173.156) |
| 20:05:44 | jhMikeS | lol |
| 20:06:53 | dan_a | barrywardell_: Did it work? |
| 20:07:10 | | Quit TeaSeaLancs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:07:18 | | Join TeaSeaLancs [0] (n=thunderc@82.153.6.167) |
| 20:07:57 | jhMikeS | If folks targeted a few ports most relevent to them the move out #ifdef hell could be done pretty quickly imo. |
| 20:09:00 | | Quit Ribs ("eh eh ehhhh!") |
| 20:10:15 | | Quit minDscrm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:11:31 | | Join mako [0] (i=mako@bork.hampshire.edu) |
| 20:11:48 | mako | greetings, i was wondering if i could get write access to the wiki |
| 20:12:29 | obo | BenjaminMakoHill? |
| 20:13:08 | mako | that's right |
| 20:13:49 | obo | as long as you promise not to spam it :) |
| 20:13:55 | mako | i promise :) |
| 20:14:02 | mako | i have done a quick and dirty installer in python |
| 20:14:27 | mako | and also run a large rockbox install party in boston |
| 20:14:57 | obo | done |
| 20:15:03 | | Quit Id2ndR ("Parti") |
| 20:15:28 | mako | i figure both issues, an ongoing developments might be good additions to the wiki |
| 20:15:31 | | Join lowlight [0] (i=c730190a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session) |
| 20:15:40 | hcs | mako: cool, I'd heard about that install party, how'd it go? |
| 20:16:04 | mako | i wrote up an article on newsforge.. got published yesterday |
| 20:16:07 | mako | http://business.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=06/10/31/2146245&tid=35&tid=132&tid=114 |
| 20:16:21 | mako | about 50-60 people showed up |
| 20:16:25 | barrywardell_ | dan_a: yes, kind of |
| 20:16:30 | mako | we weren't counting, unfortunately |
| 20:16:33 | mako | i did a couple dozen myself |
| 20:16:38 | mako | i think we did probably 40 total |
| 20:16:41 | obo | mako: it was spotted earlier today, there is some chat in the IRC logs |
| 20:16:55 | mako | are the logs published somewhere/ |
| 20:17:04 | obo | www.rockbox.org/irc/current.txt |
| 20:17:05 | barrywardell_ | dan_a: reading bank 0 works fine |
| 20:17:10 | mako | obo: thanks |
| 20:17:15 | barrywardell_ | dan_a: but bank 1 doesn't seem to work |
| 20:18:05 | barrywardell_ | ata_read_sectors freezes when you give it an address bigger than 0x7a77ff |
| 20:18:54 | lowlight | mako: someone listed your installer in DesktopTools on the wiki |
| 20:19:03 | mako | lowlight: ah great |
| 20:19:33 | | Join bluey- [0] (n=bluey@dslb-088-073-101-146.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:19:52 | mako | rasher: sorry for not showing up before.. i wanted to release the install script at the same time as the article.. and i didn't finishe either until just a few days ago |
| 20:20:40 | rasher | mako: Oh hi. Not to worry, it's just that we get a lot of people who do stuff isolated. |
| 20:21:01 | mako | rasher: i understand, completely :) |
| 20:21:19 | mako | rasher: well, i haven't done very much :) |
| 20:21:30 | barrywardell_ | dan_a: also, I think there should be "start-=0x7a77ff;" on line 470 |
| 20:22:07 | hcs | mako: nice article, well written |
| 20:22:36 | mako | rasher: and i'm here now |
| 20:22:38 | rasher | mako: It's certainly useful, since as you noted somewhere, there's no linux installer yet. |
| 20:22:58 | rasher | Or was. |
| 20:23:19 | mako | right, i think it's about ready to become an osx installer as well |
| 20:23:26 | linuxstb__ | mako: Are you a C programmer? |
| 20:23:32 | mako | if i learn a little more about handling OSX partition tables and device autodetection |
| 20:23:33 | | Nick linuxstb__ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@i-83-67-212-170.freedom2surf.net) |
| 20:23:38 | mako | linuxstb: yes |
| 20:24:30 | linuxstb | Are you planning on improving ipodpatcher and/or diskdump? |
| 20:24:51 | linuxstb | (I wrote the current versions, but don't really have any motivation to do more work on them) |
| 20:24:55 | mako | my installer would have been a shell script except i wanted to use a yaml file for storing a bunch of ipod data |
| 20:25:01 | mako | linuxstb: i've considered it |
| 20:25:27 | linuxstb | Do you know about the ipodlinux installer? That will probably have some useful functions for detecting ipods. |
| 20:26:02 | mako | yes, i've used it |
| 20:26:22 | linuxstb | Am I right in thinking it relies on the existence of a sysinfo file/ |
| 20:26:23 | linuxstb | ? |
| 20:26:36 | mako | i think so |
| 20:26:44 | mako | i managed to do it using /sys |
| 20:26:59 | mako | it relies on newer kernels but it's elegant and basically always works |
| 20:27:22 | mako | i don't find the install process all too difficult |
| 20:27:44 | mako | my issue was that i wanted to install 40 in 1.5hour and needed to automate a bit for my own sanity |
| 20:27:56 | rasher | Few people here do, that's part of the problem I guess |
| 20:28:51 | mako | the other thing is that the diversity of hardware and configurations makes things quite tricky |
| 20:29:15 | mako | but the party was a pretty good setting for it.. i managed to do weeks of debugging in an hour or so :) |
| 20:29:35 | mako | but it's still more like a simple automation than the ipodlinux isntaller |
| 20:30:37 | | Part Paul_the_Nerd |
| 20:31:51 | | Quit barrywardell_ ("CGI:IRC") |
| 20:31:55 | | Join Ribs [0] (n=freenode@91.84.8.218) |
| 20:31:56 | mako | well, if y'all would like me to merge my script into your repository, i'd be happy to do so |
| 20:32:06 | rasher | mako: irony_installer-0.1a1.tar.gz is a 404 |
| 20:32:11 | mako | i'd also be happy to keep it unofficial |
| 20:32:18 | mako | maybe i broke that last night |
| 20:32:33 | mako | rasher: one second |
| 20:35:54 | rasher | I don't know if anyone has any plans for working on a remotely unified installer. It's really a field where Rockbox is lacking (at least on the non-Archos devices) |
| 20:36:11 | mako | rasher: what i've got now isn't it |
| 20:36:34 | | Join barrywardell [0] (i=892b7bf0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7a123bf07bd44905) |
| 20:36:45 | mako | rasher: but i'm happy to work with folks to modify what i've got or write something new that is it |
| 20:37:22 | mako | rasher: link should work now |
| 20:38:08 | rasher | The biggest problem is that it's python. That's fine, perhaps even ideal on Linux, but most users are on Windows, where it's either useless or a pain (for the user) |
| 20:38:19 | | Join pixelma [0] (i=pixelma@82.193.235.34) |
| 20:38:23 | rasher | But then, we could just have two seperate installers |
| 20:38:38 | mako | rasher: better would be c+wx or something? |
| 20:39:01 | rasher | Probably, or qt4, or mono/.net I guess |
| 20:39:08 | n1s | Java! *runs for cover* |
| 20:39:09 | mako | rasher: that's that the most platform specific thing about the script :) |
| 20:39:36 | mako | rasher: it's basically a shellscript i rewrote in pythonso i could use some more complex data structures |
| 20:41:10 | lowlight | how good is py2exe? |
| 20:41:11 | rasher | I guess there's not much more to it. |
| 20:41:27 | rasher | lowlight: I'm theorising that it'd create a lot of download overhead |
| 20:41:41 | rasher | But I don't actually know that for sure |
| 20:42:03 | rasher | n1s: I suppose that's an option.. if you must |
| 20:42:20 | n1s | j/k ;-) |
| 20:42:42 | | Quit dwihno (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:42:42 | rasher | Well, if someone wrote an installer in Java, I wouldn't throw it out for being Java. |
| 20:43:01 | mako | java might be a decent option |
| 20:43:26 | linuxstb | C++ and wxwidgets would get my vote. |
| 20:43:48 | mako | the thing is |
| 20:44:19 | rasher | Also, there's already some wxwidgets code around.. just need to get Christi to release the source (and/or work on it) |
| 20:44:35 | mako | because device autodetection and most low level device interaction is platform specific |
| 20:44:41 | | Join amigan [0] (i=dcp1990@unaffiliated/amigan) |
| 20:44:51 | n1s | The biggest thing against java is probably, the example set by the tag db generating java thing, doesn't get a lot of updates, does it? |
| 20:44:57 | amiconn | [20:44:47] -logbot_- Cassandra (n=Cassandr@cpc3-oxfd8-0-0-cust240.oxfd.cable.ntl.com) signed off 5 months and 19 days ago (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:44:59 | mako | the only shared code ends up being the UI and what ended up being like 100 lines of programming logic |
| 20:44:59 | amiconn | :( |
| 20:45:03 | linuxstb | I'm thinking that could be based on the ipodlinux installer - which is C++. |
| 20:45:16 | linuxstb | But the UI will be Rockbox-specific, so could be any toolkit. |
| 20:45:19 | mako | plus a whole bunch of data |
| 20:45:33 | rasher | n1s: That's different, the java thing got abandoned because the tagdb got abandoned |
| 20:45:35 | n1s | yep seems like cassandra's vapourised |
| 20:45:47 | hcs | mako: have you seen my program for converting iTunesDB to TagCache? That might be handy in getting iPods migrated |
| 20:45:57 | n1s | but the perl script was updated |
| 20:46:03 | | Join Zagor [0] (n=bjst@46.35.227.87.static.tab.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 20:46:22 | mako | hcs: i thought about doing that last time but didn't have quite enough time.. will probably write that next time i run an event |
| 20:47:13 | mako | hcs: there's certainly code to parse itunesdb, rest should be easy |
| 20:47:38 | rasher | mako: I think you misunderstood, hcs has a itunesdb to tagcache program written already |
| 20:47:39 | hcs | mako: I've already written one: ConvertiTunesDBtoTagCache |
| 20:47:49 | hcs | (in the wiki) |
| 20:47:51 | mako | hcs: ah, awesome :) |
| 20:48:09 | mako | hcs: yes, that is handy :) |
| 20:48:40 | * | mako checks it out |
| 20:49:08 | linuxstb | hcs: Are you planning on extracting other things from the itunesdb, such as playlists and album art? |
| 20:49:27 | | Join webguest48 [0] (i=84aa2863@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session) |
| 20:49:37 | hcs | linuxstb: I have considered playlists, but I really don't care enough about album art |
| 20:49:47 | linuxstb | Someone wrote a plugin to extract itunesdb playlists months ago, but I think it's abandoned. It's on the patch tracker though. |
| 20:49:48 | mako | hcs: i'd love to incorporate this as an option into my installer :) |
| 20:50:16 | hcs | with libgpod it'd be dead simple to export playlists |
| 20:50:17 | webguest48 | Is there a wiki page on how to control the ipod UIsimulator with the keyboard? The only key reference I can find is the archos documentation in the docs |
| 20:50:33 | obo | webguest48: run it with the −−background option |
| 20:50:35 | rasher | webguest48: start the sim with −−background |
| 20:50:43 | bluebrother | webguest48, see the UiSimulator wiki page. |
| 20:50:50 | * | hcs stopped typing when the other two responses came up |
| 20:50:56 | bluebrother | but I'm not sure if that has the keys for ipods added. |
| 20:51:02 | rasher | Didn't it once print the controls on the console as you started? |
| 20:51:02 | | Nick myzar is now known as myzar|away (i=pwnt@c-24-103-130-103.client.hacked.us) |
| 20:51:04 | Slasheri | hmm, album art support could be implemented to tagcache also.. could be some special binary tag containing fixed length of data. And of course that would be kept on disk |
| 20:51:16 | mako | hcs: what happens with drm music.. does it not show up or show up and not work? |
| 20:51:40 | linuxstb | Slasheri: Or at least the filename of a .bmp file. |
| 20:51:44 | hcs | mako: It ought to show up, but won't work. I don't know though, I don't have any myself. |
| 20:51:52 | Slasheri | linuxstb: yep |
| 20:52:09 | mako | hcs: yeah, neither do i |
| 20:52:26 | mako | hcs: ideally you could detect that and not have it show up |
| 20:52:28 | hcs | I've been meaning to get my roommate to let me try it out on his... |
| 20:53:24 | hcs | yeah, there might be a flag in iTunesDB (though I doubt it) or maybe we'll need m4a parsing |
| 20:53:45 | linuxstb | mako: In the filebrowser, .m4p isn't a supported extension, so it won't show up. I'm not sure about the tagcache viewer, but I doubt it will show up there either. |
| 20:53:45 | hcs | and the program will say "Apple took your money and gave you the unusable file: %s" |
| 20:53:54 | mako | hcs: it's relatively straightforward to go the m4a wrote |
| 20:54:12 | mako | hcs: nice :) |
| 20:54:20 | hcs | yeah, I have unDrm'd m4a that works fine |
| 20:54:30 | hcs | though not in iTunesDB |
| 20:54:47 | mako | hcs: yes, i've seen that too |
| 20:54:51 | hcs | I'd expect the tagcache viewer to not care about the file types, once the stuff is in the DB |
| 20:55:02 | hcs | then again... I don't know |
| 20:55:19 | mako | i actually broke my ipod screen last week :) |
| 20:55:38 | mako | it's fine for installing onto and off and doing autodetection stuff, but not much else |
| 20:55:54 | rasher | Use the voice ui |
| 20:55:56 | linuxstb | mako: What theme did you select for your lucky users? I hope you didn't leave them staring at the default... |
| 20:56:11 | mako | linuxstb: depended on the ipod |
| 20:56:33 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:56:42 | mako | the poor man with poor vision and the nano :) |
| 20:58:12 | | Join Guest52768 [0] (i=pugsley@62.204.144.237) |
| 20:58:12 | | Quit lini (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 20:59:53 | rasher | I wonder why noone have created a spoken voicefile |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:15 | amiconn | There is a spoken voice file |
| 21:00:24 | amiconn | ... made by Christi |
| 21:00:45 | amiconn | Infortunately it was never updated, so now it's badly outdated |
| 21:00:46 | rasher | True, but that's for Rockbox 2.3 or something |
| 21:00:52 | amiconn | *Unfortunately |
| 21:01:10 | * | linuxstb imagines developers having to speak new voice strings and including WAV files with patches... |
| 21:01:29 | hcs | heh, imagine the collection of accents |
| 21:01:52 | barrywardell | does anyone here know of a web irc client i can use to access the ipl irc channel? the only port blocked on my net connection is IRC! |
| 21:01:55 | * | bluebrother imagines the various voices in one voice file |
| 21:02:03 | amiconn | linuxstb: For how many languages? ;) |
| 21:02:27 | rasher | Haha. Well, it's not as much work as you'd think. I started creating a danish voicefile, but decided I hated my voice too much about a third through. |
| 21:02:43 | rasher | That took roughly a couple of hours. |
| 21:04:18 | n1s | the editing would be a major PITA though... |
| 21:04:32 | rasher | I'd do an English version if not for the voice thing, and the fact that I think few people would like an "English with horrible foreign accent" voice |
| 21:04:47 | rasher | n1s: those two hours included saving each clip as a single file |
| 21:04:50 | | Quit Guest52768 ("lini has no reason") |
| 21:04:55 | | Join lini [0] (i=pugsley@62.204.144.237) |
| 21:05:00 | n1s | you're fast... |
| 21:05:00 | | Quit lowlight ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 21:05:18 | rasher | Well, I didn |
| 21:05:20 | | Join voyeur [0] (i=58a10615@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-fca83a919907413e) |
| 21:05:26 | rasher | 't edit it very well |
| 21:05:31 | rasher | just quick select+crop |
| 21:05:50 | linuxstb | barrywardell: Try http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22CGI%3AIRC+Login%22 - but I've no idea if any of those hits will work. |
| 21:05:53 | n1s | and it would be "fun" to finish a voice file only to realize you spoke too slow so that the file was too big for archoses ;-) |
| 21:06:54 | | Join Albert [0] (i=d541da3a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-7b4869d9f3cd8049) |
| 21:07:19 | linuxstb | You could write a Rockbox plugin... |
| 21:07:28 | | Join GreyFoux [0] (n=greyfoux@APoitiers-256-1-28-5.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:11:37 | linuxstb | On a different topic, anyone know what game "Star" is based on? |
| 21:12:07 | obo | barrywardell: freenode accepts connections on port 8001 |
| 21:12:18 | | Quit bluey- ("Leaving") |
| 21:12:50 | n1s | linuxstb: qoute from the manual It is actually a rewrite of Star, a game written by CDK designed |
| 21:12:50 | n1s | for the hp48 calculator. |
| 21:13:43 | linuxstb | I was just wondering if there were any more levels we could steal from somewhere. |
| 21:13:49 | * | n1s loves how all irc clients auto presses enter when pasting... |
| 21:15:10 | n1s | http://www.tuxigloo.org/java/star/ |
| 21:16:05 | n1s | I don't have java installed it seems so I can't test it but found a few java versions here and there... |
| 21:16:53 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
| 21:17:27 | linuxstb | nls: Yes, I found that too, and I also don't have java... |
| 21:17:43 | | Join NickDe [0] (n=nicholas@ip68-14-79-70.ri.ri.cox.net) |
| 21:18:47 | | Join SoulDeaD [0] (i=0@83-143-180-21-ixtlan-systems.unitednet.bg) |
| 21:19:30 | | Join midgey34 [0] (n=tjross@markely-164-75.reshall.umich.edu) |
| 21:19:50 | barrywardell | obo: thanks |
| 21:19:55 | | Quit Kohlrabi ("Reconnecting") |
| 21:19:57 | * | barrywardell ditches cgi:irc :) |
| 21:19:57 | | Join Kohlrabi [0] (n=Kohlrabi@frustrum.nosebud.de) |
| 21:20:02 | | Quit barrywardell ("CGI:IRC") |
| 21:20:42 | | Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@dhcp-892b7bf0.ucd.ie) |
| 21:23:07 | amiconn | n1s: Hehe, that's by the very same author as the rockbox version... |
| 21:23:38 | | Join EspeonEefi [0] (i=espeonee@CERULEANCITY.MIT.EDU) |
| 21:27:20 | Albert | Hi. I just updated from CVS and now H100 and H120 fails to compile. It's the old 'No rule to make target adc-target.h' error message that shows up when button.o is built. |
| 21:27:42 | amiconn | Most probably you need to reconfigure |
| 21:28:23 | SoulDeaD | make clean makes miracles :) |
| 21:28:46 | SoulDeaD | but yeah, you need to reconfigure first |
| 21:29:13 | Albert | I erased the whole sim-h100 directory and reconfigured, but the error message is still there... |
| 21:29:43 | SoulDeaD | hmmmm |
| 21:30:00 | Albert | All other targets seems to work ok (with simulator) |
| 21:30:36 | barrywardell | use cvs -d |
| 21:31:05 | | Quit voyeur ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 21:31:08 | barrywardell | that's not right |
| 21:31:26 | barrywardell | cvs update -d |
| 21:31:46 | | Quit Blackfish (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:32:10 | Albert | I'm trying right now.. |
| 21:32:13 | barrywardell | adc-target.h is in a new directory. cvs update only downloads new directories when you use -d |
| 21:32:41 | | Join Blackfish [0] (n=asd@p5483562B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:33:11 | Albert | Thanks! Now it works again. What does that -d switch do anyway? |
| 21:33:37 | n1s | donloads new directories |
| 21:33:50 | n1s | downloads, even |
| 21:34:27 | SoulDeaD | -d cvs_root_directory |
| 21:34:27 | SoulDeaD | Use cvs_root_directory as the root directory pathname of the reposi- |
| 21:34:27 | SoulDeaD | tory. Overrides the setting of the $CVSROOT environment variable. |
| 21:34:27 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK SoulDeaD |
| 21:34:27 | SoulDeaD | see node `Repository' in the CVS manual. |
| 21:34:48 | SoulDeaD | it?s update that updates :P |
| 21:36:00 | barrywardell | SoulDeaD: update -d is different. it downloads new directories as n1s said |
| 21:36:04 | | Join webguest27 [0] (i=5343d4aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-cd0bd0e1a6dd5dda) |
| 21:36:10 | amiconn | SoulDeaD: -d has different meanings depending on whether it's used before or after the command |
| 21:36:44 | SoulDeaD | i am currently reading the manual |
| 21:36:55 | webguest27 | nls: That java version has exactly the same 20 levels as Rockbox version... Seems the author stopped there. I prefer pixelma's graphics though. |
| 21:37:15 | SoulDeaD | i?ve always know exactly which command i need,,, |
| 21:37:24 | Albert | Great. Now I'm gonna try my new getpixel function for the iriver targets with 2bpp and VERTICAL_PACKING :p |
| 21:37:39 | | Nick webguest27 is now known as linuxstb__ (i=5343d4aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-cd0bd0e1a6dd5dda) |
| 21:38:04 | n1s | linuxstb_ yeah apparantly it's by the sam author :-) |
| 21:38:57 | pixelma | linuxstb__: thanks but there not all mine... AFAIR they were dionoea's invention |
| 21:39:07 | pixelma | *they're |
| 21:47:59 | dionoea | hi |
| 21:49:11 | | Join voyeur [0] (i=58a10615@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/session) |
| 21:50:39 | dionoea | i guess that i still have the svg sources for those graphics if anyone needs them |
| 21:51:56 | | Quit webguest48 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
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| 21:59:00 | | Join lee-qid_ [0] (n=liqid@p549653E7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:59:10 | pixelma | dionoea: I only completed the sets of star tiles taking the 20x20 pixels version to scale them down so the originals could only improve the quality of those a bit (only when they are bigger than that of course) |
| 21:59:42 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@p54B152F2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:04 | dionoea | well i'll see if i find the svg this week (i currently don't have the laptop i used to draw them so i can't look right away) |
| 22:00:06 | pixelma | oh... I missed the svg part... |
| 22:00:44 | pixelma | though I don't know if it's even worth it |
| 22:01:10 | dionoea | i doubt it |
| 22:01:14 | | Quit voyeur ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 22:01:26 | dionoea | only if rockbox has support for bigger lcds in the future |
| 22:01:47 | pixelma | yes that's what I wanted to say, too :) |
| 22:02:39 | dionoea | i'll commit all the sources i can find (sudoku tiles were drawn with the gimp, flip it was svg too but someone changed those after me so i doubt that my sources will be of any use) |
| 22:03:15 | dionoea | minesweeper tiles were the gimp too ... or maybe just screenshots of the windows minesweeper ... i don't remember |
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| 22:03:42 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 22:03:42 | * | amiconn wants to complain about the minesweeper tiles |
| 22:04:03 | * | linuxstb__ hopes they weren't copied from the Windows minesweeper... |
| 22:04:23 | amiconn | They're way too big... only few tiles fit on screen and so the game is too easy |
| 22:04:32 | pixelma | but they look like it |
| 22:04:37 | dionoea | colors were, i think that i redrew the tiles to make them look better |
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| 22:13:21 | | Join tucoz [0] (i=528676e7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-cb8a6cd06bf56d73) |
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| 22:13:49 | tucoz | hello |
| 22:13:54 | bluebrother | hi |
| 22:13:55 | tucoz | nice progress lately |
| 22:14:35 | tucoz | looks like lots of nice bugfixes has been made |
| 22:15:21 | Ribs | rockbox always seems to be progressing at a fair old pace |
| 22:15:28 | Ribs | if you look at the commits, anyway |
| 22:16:40 | tucoz | regarding the game graphics discussion a while ago. What do you think about including the raw svg graphics with a commit. Or have some place in the cvs tree to keep original/raw files. |
| 22:18:13 | tucoz | My concern is that contibutors come and go, and it would be nice to have access to the .svg files (or whatever) if a new aspect ratio for instance is introduced for some target. |
| 22:18:32 | dionoea | +1 |
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| 22:19:09 | tucoz | wonder where that folder should go. maybe in the docs folder? |
| 22:19:12 | bluebrother | sounds reasonable. |
| 22:19:34 | bluebrother | how about having a "raw" subfolder below the bitmaps/native ? |
| 22:19:46 | dionoea | source instead of raw maybe |
| 22:19:59 | | Quit tvelocity (Client Quit) |
| 22:20:18 | bluebrother | but I guess it will still be necessary to do some hand work after scaling. I was amazed of the ipod mini tiles for jewels when I changed them. |
| 22:20:33 | | Join tvelocity [0] (n=tony@ipa105.14.tellas.gr) |
| 22:20:40 | bluebrother | seemed like those had simply got scaled without anyone giving them a closer look afterwards. |
| 22:21:14 | tucoz | yes. but let´s say a 320x256 target gets a rockbox port. then we would like the original files. |
| 22:21:17 | linuxstb__ | Maybe just create a "graphics" directory in the top-level of cvs. |
| 22:21:24 | tucoz | +1 |
| 22:21:37 | tucoz | (to keep the apps for actual sources) |
| 22:21:44 | SoulDeaD | maybe resources directory? |
| 22:21:49 | tucoz | or that |
| 22:22:19 | | Quit lee-qid (Connection timed out) |
| 22:22:24 | SoulDeaD | and a subtree in there for different types of resources |
| 22:22:49 | SoulDeaD | no it?s not a good idea |
| 22:23:16 | SoulDeaD | everyone would expect to find all types of resources there, but there are already folders for som of them.... |
| 22:24:17 | tucoz | as long as there only is graphics, the resources dir would look like resources/graphics/tile.svg ... |
| 22:24:41 | SoulDeaD | hmmm |
| 22:24:58 | tucoz | and if another kind of resource is wanted in that directory, a new dir will be added |
| 22:25:09 | tucoz | that is how i imagine this |
| 22:25:15 | SoulDeaD | so d i |
| 22:25:25 | SoulDeaD | but when you say graphics |
| 22:25:41 | SoulDeaD | there may be other filetypes then .svg |
| 22:25:47 | tucoz | sure |
| 22:25:52 | dionoea | wouldn't you rather want to organise the ressources by apps instead of ressource type ? |
| 22:26:05 | SoulDeaD | i think they should be organized by type and purpose? |
| 22:26:29 | SoulDeaD | i am not sure what is better |
| 22:26:44 | SoulDeaD | i must confess that i am very new in rockbox... |
| 22:27:01 | tucoz | i am sorry for being this undecided, but i think you are right dionea |
| 22:27:08 | tucoz | dionoea |
| 22:27:20 | dionoea | whatever :) i beep on "dio" |
| 22:27:25 | SoulDeaD | but from my previous experience i think it?s not a good idea to keep same types in different locations |
| 22:27:26 | tucoz | :) |
| 22:28:23 | SoulDeaD | the project which i am currently working on is organize by subprojects then by codelines |
| 22:28:44 | tucoz | i do not expect the resources dir will get crowded anytime soon |
| 22:28:57 | SoulDeaD | it?s very inconvenient when you want to sync all projects to certain codeline |
| 22:29:25 | SoulDeaD | tucoz so do i, but we must think about future... |
| 22:29:46 | SoulDeaD | because if we do not, some day we may blame ourselves |
| 22:30:15 | tucoz | yes, but in the future i see svn or something similar. then a move is easy. |
| 22:30:43 | SoulDeaD | for this concrete case you?re right :) |
| 22:31:21 | tucoz | these files will never be used automatically in any way. just a nice place to keep files that some contributor might want to get hold of to improve the graphics for instance. |
| 22:31:25 | SoulDeaD | i?ve just gone deep in principles, i am sorry |
| 22:32:12 | tucoz | i agree with you that planning for the future is important, but in this case it´s not that important. |
| 22:32:39 | SoulDeaD | ok, i made my proposition, i?ll sleep well now :P |
| 22:32:57 | | Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:33:10 | SoulDeaD | good night |
| 22:33:22 | tucoz | night |
| 22:33:41 | SoulDeaD | leka |
| 22:34:05 | SoulDeaD | ops, it was in my mother tongue... |
| 22:34:07 | SoulDeaD | bye |
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| 22:36:39 | pixelma | tucoz: I like the idea to have those original graphics available through cvs - though I don't know which location I'd prefer |
| 22:37:15 | bluebrother | maybe a new top level folder would really be a good idea, so not everyone is checking it out |
| 22:37:35 | bluebrother | to avoid unneccessary traffic. |
| 22:37:50 | tucoz | I have no strong opinion either. but a top level dir is probably the best |
| 22:38:28 | dionoea | hopefully noone will commit big and ugly psd files :) |
| 22:38:35 | tucoz | hehe |
| 22:39:00 | linuxstb__ | I would just keep it simple - e.g. /resources/star/, /resources/rockboxlogo/ (so we can put the big .tiff version) etc. |
| 22:39:10 | * | tucoz prepares a big and ugly psd to be ready for the resources dir |
| 22:39:57 | * | pixelma will add some layers ;) |
| 22:40:03 | tucoz | linuxstb: i agree |
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| 23:00 |
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| 23:03:06 | preglow | oh, flac seeking |
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| 23:05:36 | rotator | yes, hooray! |
| 23:06:54 | linuxstb__ | So was that libFLAC 1.1.3 patch helpful? |
| 23:07:01 | rotator | new libFLAC patches finally motivated me to finish the patch |
| 23:07:04 | linuxstb__ | I never looked at the details. |
| 23:07:06 | rotator | yes, it was very helpful |
| 23:07:28 | rotator | it includes an actaully intelligent seek routine |
| 23:08:17 | tomal | Hey, long time ago I posted a patch (FS #5857) that controls what goes to IRAM depending on a target |
| 23:09:05 | rotator | now it's down to <10 seeks for seeking in 30+ minute files w/o a seektable rather than 100+ seeks in libFLAC 1.1.2 |
| 23:10:00 | tomal | I need it for my ifp port. May someone look at it and say if it looks ok? |
| 23:10:03 | rasher | tomal: Sounded like a very good idea to me, but I don't know enough that my opinion matters |
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| 23:11:19 | rasher | It should be useful for other ports as well, since there are differing iram sizes outside of the ifp |
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| 23:12:51 | tomal | We should just agree on macros names and things like where to put the defaults |
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| 23:25:19 | linuxstb__ | tomal: It seems you've stunned everyone into silence... |
| 23:26:00 | tomal | Or was my patch so boring that everyone fell asleep |
| 23:26:04 | tomal | ? |
| 23:27:07 | petur | ZzzzZzzz :p |
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| 23:36:38 | markun | tomal: do you plan to move the ifp to the target tree? |
| 23:37:22 | tomal | markun: Yes, I have got a patch from JDGordon |
| 23:38:06 | tomal | markun: I have to test it, but some recent changes don't work on ifp |
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| 23:39:42 | tomal | markun: The patch looks quite good though (FS #6273). I would just remove some charger related functions (ifp doesn't have a charger) |
| 23:44:32 | jhMikeS | petur: do you think it useful at all to have an option in recording to turn on digital output when recording even if the normal setting is off? |
| 23:45:18 | petur | you mean recording analog and monitoring digital? |
| 23:46:08 | jhMikeS | recording anything and monitoring digital but not having to set it on for playback to have it on for recording |
| 23:46:47 | petur | I don't have an h1x0 so maybe ask amiconn or so... |
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| 23:46:57 | petur | I gtg anyway |
| 23:47:15 | jhMikeS | later. Maybe I'll post in the forum |
| 23:47:21 | petur | do that |
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| 23:55:52 | | Quit lukaswayne9 ("Ex-Chat") |
| 23:56:13 | jhMikeS | Thought of another thing: I always save my config as the same file and would like to just like a shortcut so I can save as rockbox.cfg or something every time instead of getting a different numbered filename. There should be a Save to rockbox.cfg or something imo to make it easier to do a quick save of settings without creating another file or having to change it. |
| 23:58:05 | jhMikeS | Wondering if anyone would find that sort of thing useful |
| 23:58:17 | | Join Caliban [0] (n=ianmacd@kwark.caliban.org) |
| 23:58:18 | jhMikeS | besides myself :) |
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