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#rockbox log for 2006-11-28

00:01:44 Join kubiix [0] (
00:01:46 Quit tim66_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:04:45Lars_GBtw mice meeting you MacIver
00:05:12***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:05:28peturmice? in this channel?
00:05:35 Quit BHSPitLappy (Remote closed the connection)
00:06:39Lars_GMice are everywhere, never underestimate mice
00:07:15jbaargh, snakes, snakes
00:07:28jbasorry wrong small furry creature, that was badger badger
00:07:30jbanot mice mice
00:07:41jhMikeSsnakes are furry?
00:08:03peturyes, when eaten by mice
00:09:11jbano the badgers
00:09:15jhMikeSusually goes the other way
00:12:25jbajhMikeS, you've never seen (flash site)?
00:12:58Kasperlemushroooooom mushrooooooom
00:13:10jbathat's where the argh, snakes, snakes came from
00:14:38bluebrotherremembers me of bananaphone :)
00:14:57 Quit Nimdae (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:16:13jhMikeSjda: Think I need some mushrooms for that to make sense :P
00:16:19 Quit NickDe ("Leaving")
00:17:21jbajhMikeS, it's jba not jda
00:17:25jbabut i get yah
00:17:43jbathat's the whole beauty of it though
00:18:14 Quit rconan (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:18:29jhMikeSjba: typing stinks
00:18:45jbanot as bad as mine, trust me
00:19:52Lars_GI know the kernel is custom, but what is it based on? is it pure %100 in house?
00:20:47jbalooks like someone decided to do an implementation of tanabaum's operatings systems textbook kernel and then decided to funk it up
00:21:44peturjust a round robin scheduler with recently added priorities
00:21:44*jba appologises for brain fart
00:21:47jhMikeS100% home grown kernel
00:22:38Lars_GjhMikeS: that's uncommon
00:23:36*jhMikeS is looking at more weebls-stuff now... :D
00:23:54Lars_Gweebl rules
00:25:07Lars_Gand Bob (normally) obeys
00:25:31bluebrotherjhMikeS, .D
00:25:59Lars_Ghmmm odd
00:26:17Lars_GShouldn't subscribing to rockbox-dev send me a confirm email?
00:26:36bluebrotherhehe, wikipedia has quite some links
00:28:23bluebrotherLars_G, I think so. At least I got one when I subscribed ... maybe the confirmation got delayed a bit?
00:28:57 Quit MarcoPolo (Remote closed the connection)
00:30:19jbahey guys are there any plans to move to a more available embeded kernel in the future, or is that just too big a change?
00:30:28FebsSomeone in the forums posted a link to this ebay auction:
00:31:11petursomebody should inform ebay
00:31:31pixelmawhat does gpl allow on this?
00:32:00jbahey gpl doesn't say you can't sell software
00:32:08Kasperleif rockbox is GPLd, that's fine then
00:32:21Kasperleif they make the sourcecode available to the buyer
00:32:22jbaif they are distibuting source, they are doing nothing wrong, so long as those theme's and images aren't copyrighted of course
00:32:25 Quit petur ("sssssssssss---------PLOP!")
00:32:29Lars_Gpixelma: If he tells the user it's rockbox and/or offers a copy of the source or a link to the rockbox page, it's legal
00:32:45jbacaveat emptor
00:32:49Lars_Gjba: He needs to make source accessible not even include it.
00:32:54hachithey're selling a service anyways...
00:33:16FebsYes, but their is no attribution to Rockbox and no mention that the source is available.
00:33:34jbaFebs, gpl doesn't have an attribution clause
00:33:38 Quit Arathis ("[rl_bot quit]")
00:33:41pixelmayeah that's my concern - the offer doesn't mention rockbox with one word though I don't know how they handle it after you bought their service
00:33:43jbajust the accessability of th esource
00:33:45bluebrotherare they allowed to sell it without announcing it's rockbox that gets installed?
00:34:01jbapeople do the same thing with OOo
00:34:06Lars_Gbluebrother: They are, afaik, if they make clear to the user the source is available
00:34:33FebsPerhaps amiconn or someone else fluent in German could ask some questions of the seller.
00:34:48bluebrotherhmm. Maybe I should "buy" that pimp stuff. Too bad I don't own an ipod (and know how to do myself ;-)
00:35:03Lars_GThe license also would allow him to change the name from rockbox to "pimpin-coolio-ipod" and change the name and all sources to match, as long as the sources are still gpl
00:35:20pixelmado those questions appear automatically on the site or has the selle some influence there?
00:35:32jbathe only issue is the the theme content, if it's creative commons license then he should be okay, otherwise, the creators of the theme content may have issue with it
00:35:39Lars_Gjba: I agree
00:35:39bluebrotherbut he need to announce the software to be gpl, does he?
00:35:44 Join XavierGr [0] (
00:35:46Febsjba: I trust you're right about attribution; I haven't read the GPL recently.
00:36:00jbaFebs, actually it's been a long time for me also
00:36:23jbabut as i recall that's the reason for the main difference between MIT and BSD (attribution clause)
00:36:25Lars_Gjba: And it depends on the CC license. you could state he's gaining financially from the themes so if they're "noncommercial" he's breaking lic. also if they're "attribution" he needs to specify attrib somewhere
00:36:28 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
00:36:33jbaanhyhow, is rb even GPL'ed or is it some other clause
00:36:55jbas/clause/license, I never checked when i dl'ed the source
00:37:02bluebrotherhe announces to adjust the new pimp-software according to the wishes of the customer. Screams for trouble for the seller somewhat ;-)
00:37:58bluebrotherhehe, why not make a screenshot and put it to the official page ... "now Rockbox even gets sold"
00:38:01hachiI've gotten a couple notifications from the rockbox forums saying there are new posts for me to read on a thread, but when I go there I can't find anything new. Anyone know what the deal is with that?
00:38:24hachialso, why doesn't it just email me the post... it would be helpful in tracking what items are actually new
00:38:28Kasperlebluebrother: only the looks though
00:38:49Kasperlere: adjustment of rockbox
00:39:14 Quit PaulJam (".")
00:40:03bluebrotherhmm. I guess the most buyers will dislike the user interface ... as it's quite different from apple
00:40:27bluebrotherbtw, would be interesting to know if he sold the manual too. And if it's been changed.
00:42:28 Join tehsmo [0] (
00:43:12FebsUnder the GPL, distribution in executable form MUST be accompanied by a written offer, valid for three years, to provide the source.
00:43:21bluebrotherstrange. Has anybody looked at the feedback page of the seller?
00:43:49 Quit Criamos ("( :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: )")
00:43:58 Join Nimdae [0] (
00:44:51bluebrotherhe has one negative feedback that doesn't gets counted
00:46:00pixelmaindeed - and that's one of two feedback he got from buyers IIUC
00:46:04 Quit [sellout] (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:46:56 Join [sellout] [0] (
00:47:57FebsGPL clearly requires that copyright info be disclosed to the recipient.
00:47:59Lars_GSo, when will you port Firefox to rockbox? I demand it!
00:48:53oboshortly after acrobat reader, but before doom3
00:49:32Febs"For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must give the recipients all the rights that you have. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get thesource code. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights."
00:49:58hachiyou actually can't tell if this guy will be legal or not... he doesn't need to disclose anything to anyone unless they are the winner of the auction
00:50:27Lars_GFebs: Yes that means he needs to tell the buyers the program is GPL but nothing else, not who originally made it or so.
00:50:35 Quit daurn|laptop (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
00:50:39 Join daurn|laptop [0] (i=daurn@
00:51:07bluebrotherLars_G, but as Febs earlier said you must include an offer to hand out the sources
00:51:33pixelmahmm no... it seems that the last two feedbacks are just too old
00:51:47bluebrotherbut I assume he doesn't ship any "hints" sheet
00:51:48Lars_GBut like hachi says, that applies to the customer, the one receiving the install and program
00:52:20bluebrothertoo old feedbacks? I thought ebay doesn't delete the feedback points
00:52:27Lars_GThe only way would be purchasing from him. to have his data and see if he offers it.
00:52:43FebsAnd to distribute the source, you must include "an appropriate copyright notice." But it doesn't appear that the copyright notice needs to be distributed with the executable.
00:52:50Lars_Gcorrect, very old negative feedback is still counted. It's very odd in this case that it's not counted.
00:53:09pixelmabluebrother: I actually don't know - it was just a guess
00:53:11bluebrotherit's counted as per the sum but not for the percentage value
00:53:16 Quit bawb2 (Remote closed the connection)
00:53:26Lars_GFebs: No, but it's the distribution of the binary that triggers that requirement. And you're not forced by the gpl to distribute.
00:53:49Lars_GFebs: Also by the GPL he would be entitled to charge as much for the binary for the distribution of the source.
00:54:22bluebrothersomeone should tell that guy to buy from him :D
00:54:35hachiI don't know german, or whatever lang it was... but it looked like he was selling a service, not the binary
00:54:38 Quit z0de ("\o/ my neck")
00:55:15Lars_Ghachi: German
00:55:27Chris____I believe he said something along the lines of you sending him the iPod, and he puts the software on for you
00:55:33Febshachi: but the service includes installation of the software, so he is distributing the software.
00:55:34Lars_Ghachi: the ".de" ending to the ebay url should tip you off ;)
00:55:41Lars_GChris____: Seems so.
00:55:51Lars_GFebs: Correct.
00:55:57Lars_GFebs: What is exactly your point here?
00:55:59hachiI closed the window long ago
00:56:07 Quit kubiix ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
00:57:46FebsLars_G: I think we're saying the same thing. He can distribute the binary, so long he includes an offer to distribute the source.
00:57:58Lars_GFebs: Yep I think we are :)
00:58:12Lars_GAnd the only way to find out would be buying the service from him
00:58:18hachiyou could email him and ask for the source... citing the GPL
00:58:27Lars_Ghachi: No you couldn't
00:58:49Kasperlearen't the buyers public?
00:58:56hachiwhy can't you?
00:59:02Lars_Ghachi: He'd be obligued to send you the source or provide you with access to it (simply the url to Rockbox) if he has distributed it to YOU
00:59:11Lars_Ghachi: And, you can't force him to distribute the binary to you
00:59:31relaxedrockbox on the nintendo ds would be wonderful. anyone ever toy with that idea?
00:59:54Lars_GHe's forced per the GPL to offer access to the source at equal or lower price than the binary to the people he has distributesd the binary to.
01:00:15pixelmaif the questions you ask a seller appear automatically on the site someone could spoil the fun by asking directly about rockbox, or am I on the wrong track there?
01:00:24bluebrotherrelaxed, I don't believe someone ever started working on it.
01:00:42Lars_Gpixelma: Why "spoil" it for him? he's basically offering a service.
01:00:48FebsThe questions don't appear automatically.
01:00:57bluebrotherpixelma, I'm not sure if the questions appear automatically but as far as I've seen they to when the seller replies
01:01:08bluebrotherbut I never sold something on ebay
01:01:20Lars_Gpixelma: I tell you, as long as he does comply with the GPL, I preffer someone with knowledge installing rockbox for the newbies than the idjits installing it themselves and then comming here to say "you broke my ipod!!!11!!11"
01:01:33FebsYou can answer questions privately without them appearing in the auction.
01:01:47jbaLars_G, exactly
01:02:01jbapeople seem to get caught up in the GPL and miss the whole spirit of the damn thing
01:02:06pixelmaLars_G: I guess some of his potential buyers would install it themselves if they knew about rockbox
01:02:10bluebrotherLars_G, is he really allowed to ask for up to the price as for the binaries for the source? I thought he only could ask for some transfer compensation
01:02:20Kasperleit's just annoying because that guy acts like he'strying to hide the fact he's installing rockbox
01:02:24jbagood luck to him if he can make money selling an installation service, that is sorely needed
01:02:24Lars_Gjba: It's the reason I normally (save a few exceptions) preffer the BSD license.
01:02:46jbaLars_G, depends on the type of project, runtime -> MIT like, decent app -> GPL like
01:02:50jbafor me anyhow
01:03:33*Kasperle mutters something about needing a useful BSD-licensed c compiler and scuttles off ;)
01:03:40Lars_Gbluebrother: Altough it seems to apply to download only
01:03:52Lars_GKasperle: Try begging intel to BSD theirs :P
01:04:01FebsThe source needs to be distributed for a "charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution." (Section 3(b))
01:04:06Kasperlei'd sooner see TenDra work
01:04:22Lars_GKasperle: Btw the GPL compilers normally have a clause that allows you to license code compiled with them into anything you want, like GCC does so why do you care?
01:04:48KasperleLars_G: just because. It bugs me (and a lot of others) to have to ship a BSD OS with GPLed code
01:05:24Kasperle(well I'm not shipping BSD, but you get my drift)
01:05:26Lars_GKasperle: Meh? a) you're forced to make it available, not forced to include it per se. b) in this case it'd apply only to gcc's source.
01:05:49KasperleLars_G: FreeBSD is useless without a compiler though
01:06:06 Quit funky ("leaving")
01:06:17Lars_Gdoes it bust your balls SO much to include gcc because it's GPL? I think you shouldn't be doing OSS dude.
01:06:34Lars_GI mean and please don't take this personally.
01:06:43Kasperlei almost did! ;)
01:06:53Lars_GBut, even when I normally don't use GPL much for my code, GCC is another person's program
01:07:03Lars_GThey, decided to license it under the GPL
01:07:15Lars_Gif you dissagree with such a license you're free not to use it, out of your own ideals.
01:07:27Lars_GAnd you're free to either find a non gpl one, or make your own program.
01:07:50Lars_GOtherwise there wouldn't be so many people eager and happy to pay MS for VS, it's theyr taste and choice
01:07:51KasperleAnd free to decide is not as bad after all, as long as it works
01:09:20Lars_GYou ARE free to decide, and one of the decisions available to you is to rescind a compiler and have an incomplete or "broken" system because you do NOT want to give over on your possition and you can't or don't want to obtain or make a product that meets your demands.
01:10:48 Quit obo ("bye")
01:10:50bluebrothercrazy. That guy asks for 5 EUR for installing an additional them.
01:10:53 Join nABTR0N [0] (i=4420dfed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:11:49 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
01:11:52spugi wonder if he has permission to distribue those themes
01:12:20bluebrothermost themes dont't have something like a license attached.
01:12:27 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
01:12:35 Quit Genre9mp3 ("I don't suffer from Rockbox psychosis. I enjoy every minute of it.")
01:12:45bluebrothermaybe this should get stated clearly on the theme wiki page?
01:13:05spugif they don't have a licence, they're copyrighted by the author
01:13:14 Join t0dk0n [0] (
01:13:18 Join MarcoPolo [0] (
01:13:19spugand he's not allowed to distribute them by default
01:13:24bluebrotherhmm. But does this forbid distribution?
01:13:27Lars_Gspug: It depends on the country this happens on.
01:13:35Lars_Gspug: In my country, what you say is correct.
01:13:47t0dk0nDoes anyone know of any WPS theme tutorials? I know the manual pretty much explains everything, but it can be confusing
01:13:51bluebrotherespecially when they are distributed in the internet?
01:13:58spugt0dk0n: the wiki
01:14:09t0dk0nspug: thanks ^_^
01:14:15bluebrothert0dk0n, just have a look at some existing wps
01:14:17nABTR0Nboth 0,1,2,3 dont read
01:14:19nABTR0Nis that bad?
01:14:22Lars_Gspug: But as well in my country if a creative work has no copyright and it's not registered on the central registration, then each copy is tought to be copyrighted to the person identifying themselves as the author in that copy.
01:14:34spugwhat country are you in?
01:14:43Lars_Gspug: Venezuela
01:14:47t0dk0nbluebrother: I've done that, I get most of it, but I don't get the whole alignment algorithm
01:15:37 Join NickDe [0] (
01:15:37bluebrothert0dk0n, alignment it quite easy ... you just have to use it in the order left, center, right
01:15:51spugLars_G: but surely, if the author is situated in the US, for example, that person's work can't be used freely in other countries with more lenient copyright laws?
01:16:19Lars_Gspug: It depends on the international treaties signed by the countries with the US.
01:16:31Lars_Gspug: Copyright laws are applied locally.
01:16:40nABTR0NFound it :D
01:16:58t0dk0nbluebrother: in some themes, I was trying to fix text alignment with an image, but that's only thing I 'can't' figure out
01:17:12spugLars_G: thanks for clarifying, i thought the country in which the author comes from was the one that counted
01:17:27t0dk0nthe image is placed on the first character of a text string
01:17:43spugt0dk0n: sounds like you need the margin patch?
01:17:51spugor whatever it's called
01:18:12t0dk0nahh, maybe... hahaha
01:18:14nABTR0NSirs, i need help installing this thigys to mah ipod-nano cause i want to play doom
01:18:18 Quit ender` (" How many Unix system vendors does it take to change a light bulb? None.All of the light bulbs you have are'standard variants)
01:18:26Lars_Gspug: Copyright is a law, like other laws. Say an american commits a robbery in germany, and is judged for it by the german judicial process. Will he be judged under german law or american law?
01:18:44spugi get your point :)
01:18:56 Quit daurn|laptop (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
01:18:57 Join dau [0] (i=daurn@
01:18:58nABTR0Ncopyright is usually overlooked by the government
01:19:05nABTR0Nand half of the copyrights are false
01:19:15Lars_GnABTR0N: I disagree with the first, agree with the second.
01:19:18bluebrotherCustomers, please don't install this firmware just for playing doom ;-)
01:19:39nABTR0Nstill though
01:19:43Lars_Gbluebrother: Oh my, yes
01:20:03Lars_Gbluebrother: Still no email from rockbox-dev are you sure you guys are not shunning me
01:20:19nABTR0N>.> but if you go to prison and there like "hey buddy what did you do?
01:20:22nABTR0Nand your like
01:20:28nABTR0Ni copied
01:20:43nABTR0Nyour gonna be someone's bitch
01:20:43bluebrotherLars_G, I don't know −− I guess you'll need to ask the admins
01:21:01 Quit YouCeyE (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:21:18Lars_GnABTR0N: You're going to be someone's bitch wathever crime you commit... except for child molestation, that normally'd get you killed in prison
01:21:19bluebrothernABTR0N, sounds like those anti-copy clips they showed in germany
01:21:50*MarcoPolo is away: ZZZzzz
01:21:52 Nick MarcoPolo is now known as MarcoPolo|AFK (
01:21:56*bluebrother still wants to move the doom gamedata to confuse customers :D
01:22:05*t0dk0n <3 zsh text completion
01:22:15 Join MidniteFo [0] (
01:22:23MidniteFohey giys
01:22:43Lars_GI wonder if it's micro kernel or monolithic
01:22:47*Lars_G goes check
01:23:03MidniteFoIs the Rockbox team interested in the Zune at all?
01:23:04nABTR0NOk, i need help when i try to install the firmware and bootloader to my nano it says : generating firmware inage compatible with iPod video>cannot open loader image file bootloader-nano.bin ??
01:23:28Lars_GOk I think I'm gonna shoot myself.
01:23:49Lars_GnABTR0N: Did you obtain the bootloader file that's mentioned in the install howto?
01:23:56Lars_GnABTR0N: Is it on the current directory?
01:24:10nABTR0Ni think
01:24:15MidniteFoDon't shoot yourself, we need your brain matter!
01:24:35Lars_GMidniteFo: How do you know it's usefull? and how do you know it's not been wasted by useless people already?
01:24:47Lars_GI hate idiots who beleive they can be techs
01:25:03MidniteFoBecause your a freakin' genius
01:25:14Lars_Gthis moron is the friggin CTO of a small ISP and he doesn't knows how netmasks work, and can't differentiate between VNC and Terminal Server
01:25:32 Quit My_Sic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:25:58Lars_GnABTR0N: then make sure. if you're reading the guide find the place where they tell you (at the beggining) to get the bootloader file, and download it
01:26:24Lars_GnABTR0N: P.s. messaging me is not going to make me answer quicker ;)
01:26:51MidniteFospug, what is the first step to porting rockbox to the zune/
01:26:52nABTR0N:D lol i missed that, my bad
01:27:15MidniteFoI see people posting hardware information but it's slow on the board
01:27:24Lars_GMidniteFo: Reverse engineering the device to determine the hardware configuration it uses
01:27:28spugMidniteFo: developer interest and detailed hardware information
01:27:38bluebrotherby guys, I should finally leave for some sleep
01:28:07bluebrotherMidniteFo, new ports usually start pretty slowly. When most of the hardware works it gets pretty more quicker
01:28:11MidniteFoOK, once we have the specs down, what's next?
01:28:32bluebrotherMidniteFo, see the NewPorts wiki page. Should have most relevant text
01:28:33Lars_GMidniteFo: Then you'd need to write system-specific parts of the kernel in a new port. And possibly find a way to direct-flash the zune and begin testing.
01:28:39bluebrotheranyway, bye now
01:28:44 Quit bluebrother ("sleep!")
01:29:03 Quit blue_lizard (Connection timed out)
01:29:20Lars_Gif you break things a lot appart from the direct flashing I'd recommend a Logic Analyzer capable of handling the zune's main bus speed to be able to debug the information traveling from/to the cpu
01:29:24 Join blue_lizard [0] (
01:30:08 Quit Febs ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:30:47Lars_GBtw depending on the CPU used developing the kernel might or might not entrail you forking the target architecture off GCC and toolchain, and patching/rewriting it to handle the specific model of CPU the device is using.
01:30:58Lars_Gbefore you can even compile the first line of code.
01:31:28Lars_Git's also most common you'll have to write a little or lot of new code for the rockbox bootloader
01:32:50Lars_GPorting an OS or system to a new platform is NOT a light task. Specially if the platform maker is one that is usually hot for using hardware based encryption or drm
01:34:26Lars_GOmg the zune discussion degenerated into a piracy one
01:35:18 Quit anathema (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:36:25Chris____(forum related) Question - Why is it in 'Recent Posts' it says
01:36:43 Quit ze (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:36:49Chris____(accidentally pressed enter) "Re: Simple things I need help with" when it links to the Sansa e200 topic?
01:36:52 Part t0dk0n
01:38:37Lars_GMeh i finally joined the forums to post in the zune war
01:38:52 Quit CircuitMonkey ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
01:39:30MidniteFoWhat's the Zune war>
01:39:54MidniteFoHoly Jesus, I just found out a friend from school was just murdered by her redneck boyfriend
01:41:12 Join rconan [0] (
01:42:04MidniteFoNEways, what's the Zune war?
01:43:06 Quit rconan (Client Quit)
01:43:35 Join Caliban [0] (n=ianmacd@
01:44:31nABTR0NRedneck's huh?
01:44:36Lars_GGood to know you are so concerned about your friends.
01:44:53Lars_Gthis "war"
01:48:54nABTR0NWOOT it worked, Nabtr0n now owns teh rockbox
01:50:09Lars_GWelcome to the world of geek losers nABTR0N, leave your GF on the porch
01:50:13 Quit NickDe (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
01:50:38Lars_GThe other day I told a friend I was using OSS on my nano, and he said WOW and he's a friggin linux maniac and OSS developer.
01:50:46Lars_GI knew then there's not going back for my soul
01:51:01Lars_GHeck I still like Forth and I'm trying to learn Lisp, my sould has been impounded
01:51:07 Join NickDe [0] (
01:58:23 Join miso91 [0] (
01:58:41 Quit MarcoPolo|AFK (Remote closed the connection)
02:00:47pixelmaLars_G: nice nick in the forums... wonder if that has anything to do with musical preferences...
02:01:25Lars_Gpixelma: Not really, I developed the nick while playing BzFlag years ago because I found it sweetly psycopathic to kill people while using the name "Bliss"
02:01:45Lars_GAnd if you're asking me for my musical preferences get a small chair and book about one week of time
02:02:14Lars_GI could reduce it to: [everything] - [A very few things]
02:02:17nABTR0Nso i just use liek windows media player to copy music to rockbox and it auto-picks it up via the database?
02:02:28pixelmahehe... ok... same here
02:03:19 Join rolla [0] (
02:03:54pixelmag'night all
02:03:58Lars_GIf you want an idea, some stuff I REALY like: 80's brit pop, Punk, New Wave, Academic Jazz Fusion, Bebop, Psychedelic rock, Symphonic rock (not progressive stuff)...
02:04:09Lars_GNight pixelma
02:04:14rollais rockbox 3.1 still scheduled for this month
02:05:02pixelmaLars_G: I just was reminded of that song by Muse
02:05:12nABTR0NMr. Lars, may i have assistance with the transfer of music to the device?
02:05:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:06:08Lars_GnABTR0N: There are two ways to read music in the player under rockbox. look for it or use the tag database. Both allow you to throw music files in it and play them from whenever you like it.
02:06:35Lars_Gypou throw files in it however you like either as a mounted usb HDD, or via a software that is able to put music in it.
02:06:49nABTR0NLike WMP?
02:07:19Lars_GDepends. I do not know WMP's habits on putting music on the portable. if it's not adding DRM to the files, and it's not mincing the contents, WMP should work well
02:07:28Lars_Gotherwise just copy stuff to it, as if it where a usb flash drive
02:08:14 Part pixelma
02:09:17 Join t0dk0n [0] (
02:09:41t0dk0nwhen you go into the file view, is there a way to get back to the wps?
02:10:01Lars_Gt0dk0n: what device?
02:10:30nABTR0N:P transproting all my screamo
02:10:48rollaso I guess 3.1 isn't still on track for this month?
02:10:50Lars_Gt0dk0n: ???
02:11:02Lars_Grolla: No answer doesn't means a negative answer.
02:11:11Lars_Grolla: It means there are no developers to answer you.
02:11:14t0dk0nlars_g: ipod 5G
02:11:18t0dk0nhehe, sorry for the delay
02:11:24Lars_GBtw I think I read on the faq that no deadiines are given
02:11:39Lars_Gt0dk0n: If a file is still playing, click the play/pause button and it'll take you to the wps
02:11:39rollaon the todo it says november 2006
02:12:05*t0dk0n try's that just to clarify ^_^
02:12:20rollais there a way to play pacbox while still listening to music? It always stops mine when I open it
02:12:25nABTR0NSo can the nano run videos with this or not
02:12:36Lars_GnABTR0N: In theory they can, I've not tried it yet
02:13:12t0dk0n... I have no clue why I haven't thought about doing that >_<
02:13:19Lars_GnABTR0N: Seems to be mpeg1/2 only, and I'd advice against videos that require lots of CPU (many FPS, large video size)
02:13:30t0dk0nI guess it was my conscious saying that if I click that too long, it'll shut off
02:13:34Lars_Gt0dk0n: It's ok, it's just you need to make it an habit of experimenting now.
02:13:43Lars_Glol I understand the feeling t0dk0n
02:13:54t0dk0nhehe thanks so much ^_^
02:14:05Lars_GYou know appart from some minor details, I find rockbox's UI more confortable to use than Apple's...
02:14:10Lars_Gand that's saying a lot, I'm a UI freak
02:14:59 Join YouCeyE [0] (n=YouCeyE@unaffiliated/youceye)
02:15:16rollaI love the rockbox skins
02:15:39rollaI just wish things like album art were native in the builds so I didn't have to rely on third party
02:15:40 Join Rob222241 [0] (
02:16:04Lars_Grolla: It's more than "skins" for me, some of the choices done in rockbox fit my style more.
02:16:24Lars_GAltough I will make some changes either for me or for everybody to the UI
02:17:36nABTR0NNow can i have some help getting doom working
02:18:01nABTR0Nand after that i need help converting an image so i can use it as backdrop
02:18:17Lars_GnABTR0N: Not from me, I've uninstalled doom
02:19:13nABTR0Nwell then can you help me with the basis for installing any game?
02:20:00Lars_Gmeh, no, sorry man
02:21:39 Quit dau (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:21:40 Join daurn|laptop [0] (i=daurn@
02:25:02 Quit nABTR0N ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
02:26:17 Quit hcs (Remote closed the connection)
02:27:34rollais there a really easy way to compile rockbox with selected patches
02:27:40rollaor is it always a pain
02:28:38 Join nABTR0N [0] (i=4420dfed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
02:28:54nABTR0NNoo my ipod froze!
02:30:28 Quit nABTR0N (Client Quit)
02:32:52 Join Nabtr0n [0] (i=4420dfed@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
02:33:07Nabtr0nok, now i need big help
02:33:15 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:33:48 Join Rob2222 [0] (
02:34:03Nabtr0nmy thigy froze
02:34:06Nabtr0nwhen i went into star
02:34:58 Quit Nabtr0n (Client Quit)
02:35:17t0dk0ncan rockbox help me with 4 weeks of homework?
02:35:36 Join webguest61 [0] (i=4b44e960@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
02:35:36*t0dk0n make joke
02:35:56 Join Soultwister [0] (
02:36:06Soultwisterhow do i play music
02:36:46Soultwisteron rockbox
02:37:05Soultwisterdo i put it in a folder and browse
02:37:26 Quit Rob222241 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:37:56webguest61hi, i'm trying to install rockbox with mac osx, and when i try to download the diskdump and ipod_fw programs, the latter comes up as a text file, any suggestions?
02:38:44Lars_Gwebguest61: Right click on the link and select "download target as..."
02:38:51Lars_Gt0dk0n: No but it can cook for you
02:38:53Lars_GSoultwister: yes
02:39:17Soultwisterhow do i play my mp3 on rockbox
02:39:50Soultwisterjust installed it im looking at manuals dont see any on there for that
02:40:04rollaas long as you have music on there somewhere with id3 tags
02:40:13rollayou can update the database and play like that
02:40:16Lars_Grolla: Not needed in browser mode
02:40:23Soultwisteri do
02:40:31Lars_Ghe just seeks the file, hists select over it, and it plays
02:40:31rollaor browser mode
02:40:32Soultwisterunder gener
02:41:08 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
02:41:20Soultwisterbrowse themes is all i see
02:41:21rollawell i prefer the database because its a lot nicer when your on the run
02:41:31rollawhen you hit menu?
02:41:35webguest61lars g: one more question: the manual tells me to open terminal and "navigate into" the rockbox folder.... i dont know what this means
02:42:27Lars_Gwebguest61: "cd <folder name>"
02:42:58Soultwisterim lost
02:43:50Lars_GSoultwister: Read the manual :)
02:43:58webguest61lars g: i get: -bash: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'
02:44:05Soultwisteri am
02:44:12Lars_Gwebguest61: When doing what?
02:44:35webguest61when i type cd <rockbox>
02:44:52webguest61i also tried cd <users/geoff/desktop/rockbox>
02:45:07webguest61sorry i'm not very good with these things
02:45:27Lars_Gwebguest61: the <> where there to denote the value you don't type them
02:45:36Lars_GOk I go now
02:45:36Lars_Gsee you
02:45:38 Quit Lars_G ("Leaving")
02:46:12 Quit jba ("Leaving")
02:47:00webguest61thank you, that was helpful
02:52:10rollais there any way to run java applets on rockbox
02:52:18rollaor port them to rockbox
02:53:01*tehsmo doesn't think many mp3 players would be up for running a jvm..
02:53:42t0dk0nipod may be possible
02:53:52t0dk0nbut I'm satisfied with C over Java anyway :P
02:53:58rollayeah thats what I was hoping for
02:54:12rollais C an easy transition from java?
02:54:24rollaI only know java and like a bit of pascal
02:54:47t0dk0nI hear Java is one of the hardest languages to learn, and C is relatively easy to learn
02:55:03rollai feel special
02:55:09t0dk0nbut I wouldn't know from experience, for I've been too much of a pussy to learn Java ^_^
02:55:14webguest61i'm trying to extract my apple firmware using osx and got this message
02:55:15tehsmojava's not too hard
02:55:17tehsmonow haskell
02:55:17webguest61geoffmac:~/Desktop/rockbox Geoff$ ./diskdump -r /dev/disk3 bootpartition.bin
02:55:19tehsmothat's a hard language
02:55:29rollaI'd say assembly
02:55:33t0dk0nhaskell is interesting though, to may anyway
02:55:46tehsmoI think assembly's probably actually easier than haskell
02:55:47t0dk0nwait, ignore that, I forgot what i meant to say :P
02:56:10tehsmoI guess it depends on how well you deal with the functional programming concept
02:56:11rollahaskell must be like 0's and 1's
02:56:17t0dk0nbrainfuck is the hardest language
02:56:27t0dk0nits like assembly + morse code =D
02:56:45 Join jba [0] (
02:56:46rollawhats a good C programming environment
02:56:52rollaI use eclipse for java
02:57:00jbahey jhMikeS what country are you in, you seem to have been on for 24 hours straight
02:57:07t0dk0nrolla: hmm, I take it you're a windows user?
02:57:14rollayeah :S
02:57:26t0dk0nah, I don't know much about environements
02:57:38t0dk0nfor C, I just use GCC to compile it, and a text editor to code it 8-)
02:57:47t0dk0nwhich is linux stuff
02:57:52rollatext editor :P
02:57:56rollaur brave
02:58:15rollaonce you code in an environment you'll never go back
02:58:57t0dk0nthat might just depend on how you learn it :P
02:59:05tehsmodepends, I like to use my text editor too much.
02:59:09t0dk0nsame here
02:59:11rollaI suppose
02:59:13tehsmono environment could ever be as much fun unless it used a modal design
02:59:32tehsmowhich isn't going to happen in an IDE, it's not a popular editing model
02:59:40rolla:O eclipse can code C and C++!!
02:59:58rollanow to figure out how to get it to work...
03:00:47t0dk0nrolla: there's many good tutorials to learn C
03:01:15 Join ogi [0] (n=root@
03:01:17t0dk0nthat's where I learned ^_^
03:01:35rollacool, I'm in a CS class for java at my high school
03:03:13ogiHello everyone!
03:03:28rollacomputer science
03:03:51t0dk0nahhh, I was thinking photoshop or counter strike (yeah, right) :)
03:04:02t0dk0nhello ogi
03:04:16ogiJust to ask, I joined the rockbox wiki, but before I can make any edits, I need to get write access, who do I have to talk too regarding that?
03:05:23rollahaha yeah if I didn't know what cs was those two would definately pop in my head
03:07:08rollag2g nice talkin to yah
03:07:09 Part Chris____
03:07:11 Quit rolla ()
03:08:48webguest61anyone have a link for the page describing how to change from a mac formatted partition to FAT32?
03:09:33ogibtw, anyone using rockbox successfully with an ipod 3g? I have been having some issues (build 27.11.06)
03:09:37ogiwhich OS?
03:12:18 Quit Rick (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:12:46 Join Rick [0] (
03:12:56ogihmm... I can't say I have done it on osx
03:13:03webguest61nevermind, found a link
03:13:14ogigd luck
03:13:47Soultwisterdam if i dint happen to run into the player id never find it
03:15:18Soultwister how to play music on rockbox
03:15:45ogiyou browse the folders, when you come across a music file, just click on it
03:16:00ogiI have a folder in my root dir called "Music" and in there I put all the music
03:16:16ogithen just go there, and just click on a music file
03:16:18Soultwisterwell i did it through id tags
03:16:58Soultwisteris there any cool plugins anyone
03:17:14Soultwisterlike for playing videos
03:17:20Soultwisteror a game
03:17:43Soultwisteror even veiwing photos
03:17:46ogiwell, have you set your "Show files" option to "ID3 database"
03:17:48 Quit crwll (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:17:57Soultwisteryes i did
03:18:18ogiand you have built/initialised the database?
03:18:34Soultwisteryes thats right
03:18:41Soultwistersure did
03:19:02ogiwell, that should be it, on my player it shows up the database, and can select by album/artist/Genre/etc...
03:19:12Soultwisteryep me to
03:19:32 Join Captain_Apathy [0] (
03:19:37Soultwisternow i wanna try new plugins and try videos 5th gen 60 gig
03:19:58ogiwell, just browse those, lets say album, then pick a song
03:20:10ogicool, I got a 5th gen video too, 30g
03:20:20Soultwistercan i make it boot to rockbox default
03:20:24ogivideo support does not work to my knowledge
03:20:24Captain_Apathyquick question: my 5g ipod is frozen to the point where I can't reboot rockbox, is there another way to reboot?
03:20:37ogimy one already does
03:20:43ogiit should by default
03:20:58Captain_Apathyit's not responding to the button commands and won't scroll either
03:20:59ogiand yes, hit menu + middle button and hold for a few secs
03:20:59Soultwistermiddle button and menu hold for 5 sec
03:21:05ogithat should reset it
03:21:36tehsmoogi: gets points for speed, but Soultwister gets points for precision
03:21:37Soultwisteror connect if u can to pc and restore start over
03:21:50Captain_Apathysweet jesus, thanks
03:21:57tehsmo(assuming 5 seconds wasn't give or take) ;)
03:22:18Captain_Apathyit's a xmas miracle
03:22:33Captain_Apathyonce again, thanks
03:23:33Soultwisterso can i make rockbox my default boot and maybe boot to ipod by pressing left
03:23:45Soultwisterlike ipl
03:23:55 Join dau [0] (i=daurn@
03:23:58 Quit daurn|laptop (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:24:04ogiif you hold the menu button while booting it will load the original firmware
03:24:11 Join Bratsche [0] (
03:24:17Soultwisterdont like option screen keeps people out of my ipod info
03:24:24 Part Captain_Apathy
03:24:35 Part t0dk0n
03:24:57Soultwistergot personal info for me noone elese
03:25:14BratscheHi. I was wondering if someone could lend a hand in installing Rockbox for an iPod.
03:25:29Soultwisterrockbox x awsome way
03:25:41ogiNOTE: press "play/pause" for 2 seconds at the boot prompt to load the original ipod firmware
03:25:42Soultwisterthrough windows
03:25:58ogithats what I get for trying to help at 2am, lol
03:26:06Soultwisteroh sorry
03:26:15Soultwisteri appreciate your help
03:26:27Soultwisterthanks ogi
03:26:29ogino probs, just making some silly mistakes
03:26:56ogiit wasn't directed at you, rather at the mistake
03:27:09Soultwisterso is there a boot loader for booting right into rockbox without option screen
03:27:14ogidoes anyone have any idea about getting write access to the wiki
03:27:47ogiwhat option screen? on the ipod, I get the apple logo, if you hit "play/pause" and hold, it will boot the original apple firmware, if you do nothing, it boots rockbox
03:28:30Soultwisterya i dont want option screen
03:28:30ogiat least on my 5g and a 3g I'm flashing
03:28:41ogiyou mean the apple logo bootup?
03:29:07ogiyou can't, thats part of the apple initialisation, before the rockbox bootloader has a chance
03:29:13ogito do anything about it
03:29:14Soultwisterit gives me an option of apple or rock i dont want that
03:29:28ogiits like the computer BIOS POST
03:29:42oginow about disabling the apple firmware, so you cant switch
03:29:47Soultwisteri want it to go right to rockbox with out option
03:29:48ogiI don't know, it might be possible
03:30:00 Quit MidniteFo ()
03:30:02ogiI presume you just build the bootloader without the apple firmware
03:30:25tehsmohmm, rockbox supports the 5th gen video ipods, does that include the 60gb one?
03:30:40Soultwisterwould i have re install
03:30:52Soultwisterto do what i want
03:31:02Soultwisterworks on mine
03:31:12oginot rockbox, but yes to the bootloader
03:31:34ogi@tehsmo, works on my 30g 5th gen like a charm
03:31:43BratscheSo, what would be wrong if ipodpatcher can't find the ipod?
03:31:47Soultwistercool so just over right it with installer
03:31:56oginot so easy
03:32:02ogiI don't know how to do it
03:32:20ogibut why do you want to prevent the option? unless you press the button it will not come up
03:32:21tehsmocool stuff, I'm probably going to get a 60gb and put rockbox on it
03:32:25ogiand it takes the same space no matter what
03:32:34*tehsmo was going to get an iaudix x5, but was scared away by stories of terrible customer service
03:32:36 Join crwll [0] (
03:33:25Soultwisterwell if i borrow my ipod to a freind i dont want them to know how to get my ipod it has personal info for my eyes only
03:33:25ogimy ipod was a gift, but I was planning on getting one older for rockbox, wanted good flac/ogg player
03:33:50ogithe ipod is seen as a hard disk to any computer you connect to it, and everything is browsable
03:33:57ogiremoving the apple firmware will not prevent that
03:35:25ogi@tehsmo: note that there is quite a bit of work until the ipod is fully utilised, it works great as it is, but it can get better, especially when support for the second ARM core is ironed out
03:35:36Soultwisteri know but they anint going look at my ipod with a computer
03:36:09Soultwisterthere just gonna use it when im around
03:36:30ogi@tehsmo: but for the moment, music playback is great (flac/ogg/mp3 tested here) but with no video playback support, no TV out and limited recording (line in from what I hear it)
03:36:40tehsmowell, that's fine
03:36:53 Quit Soultwister ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
03:36:54ogi@tehsmo, it can only get better
03:37:02tehsmoI just want an mp3 player that uses the filesystem
03:37:14tehsmoas opposed to proprietary software
03:37:26ogi@Soultwister: well, they can access the same no matter which firmware they use
03:37:37ogiin fact, the rockbox firmware will allow greater access to files, than the ipod one
03:37:42 Part Bratsche
03:37:44ogias it has a filebrowser builtin
03:37:53tehsmoiirc you can't play stuff from the apple firmware unless it was copied with itunes
03:38:01tehsmoor an equivalent
03:38:33ogibut from what I gather, Soultwister is worried that someone can view personal files of some sort if he lends his ipod to someone
03:39:12ogi(unless I misunderstood him)
03:39:26tehsmoindeed ..perhaps he should look into encryption schemes
03:40:02ogiyeah that could work
03:40:47ogiI am happy with my ipod I have to say, primarily because of the hardware
03:40:50tehsmoooh, a sudoku plugin
03:40:52 Join midkay_ [0] (
03:41:01ogievery day I play that on the train to uni
03:41:18ogibut now I loaded pacman
03:41:25ogiwhat an addictive game dammit
03:43:10ogihmm... 3g ipod support is not too good i see
03:43:38ogiit has locked up again
03:44:15ogiactually one of the reasons I wanted write permission on the wiki is so I can write about my experiences with the 3G ipod
03:44:43 Join banana [0] (i=4b645ab6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
03:45:17bananacould someone help me with the ipodpatcher program?
03:45:43ogisorry, not me, don't use the program
03:46:00bananayeah, i'm just trying to install rockbox
03:46:21ogiI can try
03:46:24ogiwhats the problem?
03:47:10bananawell, from what i can tell, the computer can't find the ipod
03:47:34bananai think you need the number for installing the bootloader.
03:47:43bananaand that's what the ipodpatcher.exe is for
03:48:23ogiI presume the ipodpatcher patches the ipod to run both rockbox and the apple firmware
03:48:31ogiyou are running windows, right?
03:48:44bananayes, windows me, which probably is the problem.
03:49:12ogiwell, what interface? (and what ipod)
03:49:16ogiusb or firewire?
03:49:26bananait's a 2G ipod mini on usb
03:49:36ogiand windows does not detect it at all?
03:49:56bananawell, windows does.
03:49:59ogidoes it appear on iTunes? or as a removable disk (under the removable devices taskbar icon)
03:50:07bananait shows up in explorer, yes, as a removable disk
03:50:13bananathat's all normal.
03:50:17ogigd gd
03:50:28ogiwhere does it all go wrong?
03:50:46bananaso, the wiki says you need to find a number that's assigned to your ipod in order to run the ipodpatcher program
03:50:57ogii see
03:51:09bananaby typing in the command prompt "ipodpatcher 0", "ipodpatcher 1" etc
03:51:13bananaup to 26
03:51:49bananathose commands don't do anything
03:53:34SoapIsOutOfTowndon't do anything at all?
03:53:54ogihave you set the ipod as "disk mode" under itunes
03:54:12SoapIsOutOfTownHe sees it in Windows Explorer
03:54:23bananaYes, it's set in disk mode
03:54:29ogijust checking
03:54:32bananaAnd yes, I see it in explorer
03:54:58SoapIsOutOfTownso what is the _exact_ output when you do ipodpatcher 1 ?
03:56:00banana[info] reading partition table from\\.\PhysicalDrive1 error opening disk: The system cannot find the file specified.
03:56:18 Join ze [0] (i=ze@
03:56:39SoapIsOutOfTownwhat version of windows?
03:56:54bananaME, yes.
03:57:19SoapIsOutOfTownI'm not sure, but I suspect that is your problem.
03:57:24 Quit midkay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:57:48tehsmoyou could try running a bootable knoppix cd to do the install, if you don't want to change OS's permanently
03:58:46ogiis it me or does it seem easier to do on linux?
03:59:52ogiunderstandably, windows me is not the best of windows OS's
04:00:48bananaYes, I'm planning on buying a new computer soon. Until then, I'm stuck.
04:01:20ogiwhat do you have? perhaps an upgrade (downgrade?) to windows 2000 would not be a bad idea
04:01:29ogiand should work on similar hardware
04:01:37SoapIsOutOfTownI gotta run, but check the wiki instructions, I don't recall if you need Windows NT or not, I'm thinking for some reason you do.
04:01:52bananathanks for your help.
04:01:56SoapIsOutOfTownogi: 2K is the peak of Windows, it is never a downgrade. ;)
04:02:10ogihehehe, its the only version I ever run
04:02:21SoapIsOutOfTownand, yes, 2K will work on most any computer 98/ME will, often better.
04:02:41ogibut I think it would be classed as a downgrade, as it was released before ME
04:02:43SoapIsOutOfTownBut banana has proven he is a good boy and not pirating windows, for no warez monkey would be caught dead with ME.
04:03:05bananaoh, I can't imagine why you would pirate ME.
04:03:12bananaIt would be like shooting yourself in the foot.
04:03:17bananalol, most likely.
04:03:26SoapIsOutOfTownogi: 2K is NT, ME is 98+themes and more USB support. There is no way 2K is a downgrade.
04:03:34SoapIsOutOfTown2k is still supported, ME is not.
04:03:55ogiwasn't ME some attempt at merging NT and win98 into a "home" NT version
04:04:06ogihence getting rid of the DOS base ?
04:04:06bananaI think so.
04:04:16SoapIsOutOfTownno, ME was released, IIRC, for home use because XP was late.
04:04:26bananabut anyways, I'm off to try a live CD.
04:04:28SoapIsOutOfTownXP was the merging of NT and home.
04:04:29zei thought ME was just win98 with some extra garbage to make it seem new
04:04:29bananathanks a lot.
04:04:31scorchestill wrong
04:04:33ogiI see
04:04:35 Quit banana ("CGI:IRC")
04:04:57scorchethere were 2 different projects at redmond...NT (2000) and ME (old system)
04:05:16scorchethe developers were split as to which route they should go
04:05:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:05:50SoapIsOutOfTownwhere did you read that? ME was the year 2000 release of the 9x line just-in-time-for-christmas.
04:06:02scorchei didnt read that
04:06:16scorchethat is from a friend i have that used to work for M$
04:06:36SoapIsOutOfTownI think the plan was always to move the home users to the NT side eventually, just that the transfer came to late for the marketing department, so ME was pushed out the door.
04:07:04SoapIsOutOfTownfor ME has no structural changes over 98
04:07:13scorchei know
04:08:09scorcheas i said...the devs were split...the NT group, and the 9x group who didnt want to switch over to NT...of course both groups thought the other was better
04:08:39scorches/the other was/themselves were
04:08:54scorchestill not right, but you get it
04:09:18ogiwhat were the benefits of 9x ?
04:09:33scorcheheh....not DOS
04:09:51scorchewell, not totally on DOS
04:09:56ogididn't ME get rid of DOS as the base?
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04:10:33SoapIsOutOfTownno, ME was still DOS based, but didn't boot through DOS (unlike 98) to boot faster.
04:10:48ogiwhat did it boot from? I thought that was the NT bit
04:11:39SoapIsOutOfTownthey simply bypassed real dos mode, and bastardised the minimal they needed to boot ME, leaving you the worst of both worlds.
04:12:07ogiI see
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04:12:31ogicool info, always something new to learn
04:12:47ogiso did ME have any redeeming features at all?
04:12:54scorchenot really
04:13:04scorchethere is a reason they named it ME
04:13:10scorcheMistake Edition
04:13:49SoapIsOutOfTownThey gave ME many of the little features from 2k - UPnP, system restore, little crap like that.
04:14:18ogia laptop I bought came with ME when it was new
04:14:20SoapIsOutOfTownME looked like 2k more than 98, I don't believe it could do the transparencies 2K could do.
04:15:00ogimy experience with ME on that laptop guaranteed it was wiped in favour of 2k almost instantly
04:16:33ogibtw, anyone know who to talk to about getting write access on the rockbox wiki? (sorry for repeatadly asking)
04:16:50scorcheanyone who has write access already
04:17:02ogiso... who has write acces? =P
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04:17:10scorchemany people
04:17:22*scorche points to SoapIsOutOfTown busy =P
04:17:34ogiso how do I know who to ask
04:17:35SoapIsOutOfTownSoapIsOutOfTown IS
04:17:43ogido you have write access?
04:17:53SoapIsOutOfTownyea I do, are you registered?
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04:18:20ogiOgnen Bezanov
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04:20:24SoapIsOutOfTownDo you agree by signing on the dotted line that you are not a spammer, never will spam, that all content you post to the wiki will be intelectually stimulating, slightly erotic, and totaly of help to all others who choose to partake in RockBox The Experience, hereafter known as RTE, and that you release all rights to your work to the community to do with as they will, and that only valuable information will be posted in a style consistant with
04:20:24SoapIsOutOfTown existing pages and that Soap shall have final say over what is for dinner?
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04:20:56scorchedont forget i get his first-born
04:20:58ogi(I will try making 3G notes a bit erotic, no guarantees though)
04:22:28SoapIsOutOfTownwhich page scorche?
04:23:18SoapIsOutOfTownwhich page do I add him to?
04:23:24scorche should know that
04:25:12SoapIsOutOfTownthe deed should be done
04:25:35*ogi goes to try out write access
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04:29:04ogiseems ok, currently adding my ipod 3G experience
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04:33:07ogihey, all ok. thanks alot =)
04:36:52CtcpPing on #rockbox from ogi!n=root@
04:36:52***Server message 505: 'logbot :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( )'
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07:45:57webguest45hi there anyone aorund who's responsible for the website?
07:46:44scorchewebguest45: what do you need?
07:48:30webguest45i expierenced that the links to twiki and cvs point to the wrong target's at some point of the site.....can't reproduce it.....searching *argh*
07:49:26scorchewell, let me know if there is a problem
07:49:36webguest45i'll do.....
07:50:35webguest45cvs pointed to which caused 404 but i can't find it by now...
07:52:36webguest45oh and takes really long
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07:53:27webguest45*shrug* gotta go now.....i'll check this later
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09:36:43webguest13Hi, yesterday I observed a weird behaviour on my H120 (with the most recent build). I played an mp3 file, then went to the pitch screen and set it to 105% (the exact value doesn't matter), then returned to the WPS and jumped to the start of the song (pressed left). There was no music and the progress bar advanced very quickly, and elapsed time counted also quickly (at about double speed). I again went to the
09:37:34daurnimator I again went to the..
09:39:36webguest13daurnimator: what?
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09:40:19daurnimatoryou didn't finish the sentance
09:41:26webguest13daurnimator: I did, it probably wasn't transmitted correctly. here it is:
09:41:30webguest13I again went to the pitch screen and after the first change (to 104.9%) the sound appeared again. Any ideas?
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09:54:22peturwebguest13: will try
09:57:52LinusNk00l - i must pimp my ipod - only 25 :-)
09:57:59peturwebguest13: confirmed. Can you post this in the bugtracker?
09:58:11scorcheLinusN: heh...yeah...
09:58:42*petur makes a mental note that he shouldn't try to change the pitch of songs of The Smiths - sound very weird
09:58:48LinusNit doesn't bother me that they are selling rockbox, as long as they follow the gpl license
09:59:24scorchewhat bothers me is the complete lack of credit
09:59:39peturwebguest13: are you still here?
10:00:06scorcheboth to us (rockbox crew) and the WPS creators
10:00:12LinusNscorche: yeah, it's annoying
10:00:20peturpressing stop to leave the pitch screen feels very strange btw....
10:00:34LinusNwell, they might be violating copyright law with the wps'es
10:01:04peturI'm sure a simple mail to ebay can solve this ;)
10:01:37scorchepetur: i would rather cut it off at the root....or at least give them a chance to properly do things
10:02:02*petur hands scorche the axe
10:02:53webguest13petur: yes. What DAP do you have?
10:03:21peturthis is SWCODEC related, not DAP
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10:04:23peturwebguest13: you post it to the tracker please?
10:04:56webguest13petur: in the flayspray, they ask about the platform. I remember the guide line of submitting bug reports for emacs: just describe what you've observed, make no assumptions.
10:05:26peturplatform = SW-Codec
10:05:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:05:30webguest13petur: I can't type that fast :-)
10:06:02peturjust copy your initial post you made here
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10:06:58LinusNscorche: i think you could just ask them if they have modified rockbox in any way, and whether they provide the source code
10:07:59LinusNand perhaps if they have the wps authors' permisson to redistribute
10:08:52scorcheit is obvious that they do not, but I will get to that in the conversation i am sure
10:09:29tychvernot to be a burden but could someone please have a look at my update to the ipod scrolling acceleration patch so it compiles withe the latest CVS
10:09:31*petur whispers 'kill kill kill'
10:09:45scorchedont worry...i will keep you informed ;)
10:09:50webguest13 petur: how can you tell H300 from SW-codec platform?
10:09:56tychverIt probably breaks every convention known to man...
10:10:27peturwebguest13: I'm pretty sure the bug you see is not hardware related but common to all players that decode music in software
10:11:16webguest13 petur: Ok, in this case it is very likely. But in general? If I have to submit a bug, when should I choose SW-codec?
10:11:46webguest13 petur: FS #6389
10:12:33peturwebguest13: really depends on the bug. You can always select your DAP and a dev will change it if it's obviously wrong. Having it marked for a specific DAP isn't too bad anyway...
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10:25:35webguest13 petur: for H120 (and probably H340) following would be more intuitive in the pitch screen: NAVI=reset to 100%, PLAY=go to WPS. STOP = nothing. What do you think?
10:25:57peturwebguest13: agree
10:26:16peturpressing stop was very weird
10:27:36webguest13 petur: who will make the patch? OTOH: STOP=leave the menu, so it's ok.
10:27:53peturfeel free to post a patch or suggestion ;)
10:28:32webguest13 petur: ok, I'll do later today.
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10:35:20Soultwisterwhere do i get album and scroll for rockbox
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10:36:43Soultwisteranyone know
10:37:11tychverI don't understand the question
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10:37:50scorcheSoultwister: assuming you mean album art and scrolling margins patches...they are in the tracker along with all the other patches
10:38:07Soultwisterthere is supposed to be a plugin that allows me to see album art
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10:48:04obotychver: why all the changes to the button.h includes?
10:48:40Soultwisterwhere do i put the patch
10:48:53tychverrecursive redefenitions, didn't know how else to handle them
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10:50:04Soultwisteranyone know where you put album patch
10:50:34scorcheSoultwister: i suggest you read the SimpleGuideToCompiling wiki page
10:50:51Soultwisteri have to comile it
10:50:59Soultwistercompile it
10:51:09tychveror download an unsupported build with it built in
10:51:09scorchewhat did you think a patch was?
10:51:11Soultwisterdont have linux
10:51:18scorcheyou dont need linux
10:51:35Soultwisteris it a wps
10:51:54scorchethat page tells you that you can install either cygwin or vmware to do the job
10:51:59scorchewhat do you mean?
10:52:18scorchea wps is very different than anything we are talking about
10:52:44Soultwisterya i know
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10:53:00Soultwisterim a newbie to comiling
10:53:09scorchei noticed =)
10:53:46Soultwisterwhat i ment to ask is when i compile a patch what does it turn into
10:54:15Soultwisterid rather get a compiled version of the patch
10:54:41scorcheyou get a build
10:55:15scorchethen look in the unofficial builds forum for a build for your target that includes those patches
10:55:58scorchebut compiling and tasks of that sort are beneficial for one to learn
10:56:16Soultwisteryes i agree
10:56:42Soultwisteri tried once to compile a game for linux failed alot
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10:59:09scorchewell, then i suggest you start learning
10:59:33tychverto be honest I think that the scrolling patch is far too jerky and needs about a couple more steps in it but I guess that means using more resources
11:00:11Soultwisteri have a 60 gig 5th gen
11:00:13scorchetychver: it is a patch...
11:00:22scorcheyou can edit it however you want
11:00:28scorchethere are reasons it is not in cvs
11:00:48Soultwisterwould it be easier to use tagcache
11:01:03scorcheas long as we are not busy and are in the mood, we will help you here or in the forums...although, we do like to see that you have made some effort to try and find the answer, if you do have an issue, it would be wise to search the forums for people who have had that issue before, among other methods
11:01:15scorche@ Soultwister
11:01:29scorcheSoultwister: for what?
11:01:50Soultwisterto view album art that has been made with itunes
11:02:02scorcheitunes cannot do that
11:02:17obotychver: it could do with TPs list scrolling changes as well...
11:02:23Soultwisterinbeded in the mp3
11:02:31Soultwisterit self
11:02:54Soultwisteri have album art already imbedding in my mp3
11:03:06scorcheitunes actually extracts the album art from the mp3 when it puts it on the ipod
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11:05:02tychverso you suggest that I add the extra levels of scrolling speed?
11:06:06tychverI'll be free for 8 weeks in 48 hours (school holidays), I'll see what I can do over the summer
11:06:38tychverI don't know that much C, tried to learn a few times but lost interest, now I actually want to do something with it and I'm mostly learning as I go
11:06:57oboTPs first version of the patch included more changes to list.[ch] - those sped up the list scrolling, I think he said it was 12 times faster
11:07:19tychveryeah it was, pretty much inversely linear to the font size too!
11:08:00tychverI'll see what I can do over the next 8 weeks about that, I'm not really the best person to be doing this but why not :)
11:08:23tychverthat was with a size 14 font, with a size 5 its about 27 times faster
11:09:20tychverand with a size 21 like 5 times faster
11:09:25tychverwait that's not linear at all
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11:09:37tychverit's hyperbolic I think
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11:09:52tychveranyway it's 23:10 and I have an exam tomorrow
11:10:00tychverI'm off
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11:33:21amiconnWhy are there still button #defines in core .h files??
11:33:58amiconnButton actions should have made them superfluous
11:35:43*amiconn wonders about several things related to this scoll acceleration patch
11:37:15LinusNim not sure about that status bar update thing
11:38:48LinusNbut the inability to include button.h twici is easy to solve, since he added the stuff *after* the #endif /* BUTTON_H */
11:38:54amiconnThat's one point
11:39:41LinusNi only had a brief look at the coding style
11:40:17amiconnThe others are (1) Is the scrolling really too slow on some ipods?
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11:40:33amiconnMy problem with the scroll wheel is that it's rather too fast to precisely go to a certain line
11:41:15amiconnI practially always go too far first, and have to scrol back
11:41:16phlasphyhey all
11:41:22phlasphyi was thinking about getting an ipod
11:41:43scorcheamiconn: i think that is more an issue of sensitivity than speed
11:41:53amiconn(2) Why only for the 4g, and why is the mini excluded? (mini1g that is)
11:41:59phlasphyand install rockbox on it
11:42:01amiconn4g pad I mean
11:42:07phlasphybut i have a few questions
11:42:38scorcheand the speed is no issue for those of us who have their music properly organized, but for those who have many many items in one folder, it takes quite a while to go throguh it
11:42:59Febsamiconn: yes, scrolling is too slow in some instances. Scrolling long lists takes a long time.
11:43:14phlasphycan i put the original apple firmaware back on if i dont like rockbox?
11:43:20Febsphlasphy: yes.
11:43:37scorchephlasphy: actually, the original firmware is kept on the device and is dual-bootable
11:43:42FebsYou can also dual boot, so you can run the apple firmware without having to uninstall Rockbox.
11:44:01phlasphydoes that mean i would need a boot loader like GRUB or LILO
11:44:13amiconnscorche: I can go through the database all-tracks list on my mini rather quick. Okay, a 4GB mini doesn't hold that many tracks...
11:44:18scorcheit is dual boot by default
11:44:30phlasphyand if i want to uninstall rockbox
11:44:54scorchethere are uninstallation instructions along with the installation instructions
11:45:06phlasphyok and there would be no traces of it?
11:45:14scorchejust make sure and keep the original bootpartition.bin as it says to
11:45:25scorchepretty much
11:45:39phlasphypretty much?
11:45:42scorcheamiconn: yes
11:45:52scorchephlasphy: for all practical purposes yes
11:46:12phlasphywhat are some cons to using rockbox?
11:46:16phlasphypros and cons
11:46:18scorcheamiconn: but like i takes quite a while for others
11:46:38scorchephlasphy: i suggest you read
11:47:47phlasphywhat player do you have?
11:47:55scorchei have a couple
11:48:20phlasphywill it work on a ipod video 30gb
11:48:32scorcheprovided it isnt the new type, yes
11:48:42scorchewhen was it purchased?
11:48:52phlasphyumm i will be getting it at xmas
11:49:24scorchewell, there is a way to install rockbox on the new ones, but it is not yet fully stable
11:49:30scorcheit will be in time of course though
11:49:38phlasphyok will it be by xmas?
11:49:51scorcheit might be, it might not be
11:50:03scorchewe do not give out dates here =)
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11:50:49jbajhMikeS, it seems that the memory map for the gigbaeta port may have been too hungry, possibly resulting in corrupt memory
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11:53:06*amiconn wonders what a hungry map is ;)
11:53:45phlasphyso will rockbox increase sound quality?
11:54:35LinusNnot really
11:54:35scorchethe sound quality is basically the same, but rockbox has many options to tune the sound to your ear/sound better to you
11:55:13phlasphyand can i turn my ipod into a brick when trying to install it
11:55:28scorchewe have never had a brick yet ;)
11:55:32oboamiconn: I have a /music/artist/album structure - it takes me 45 seconds to scroll from the top to the bottom of my list of artists on a 5g ipod
11:55:41scorcheexcept for that one guy who threw the ipod out the window...
11:55:58phlasphyreaLLY NOT ONE BRICK YET
11:56:06phlasphyoops sorry for caps
11:56:16scorchethe ipods are VERY hard to brick completely
11:56:28scorcheit would take some skill to do so
11:56:50phlasphyand if i do what happens
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11:56:54scorcheyou wont
11:56:57phlasphycan i unbrick it
11:57:17phlasphyi heard PSP is easdy to brick
11:57:37scorchewell, the definition of "bricking" is to make a device not operating or recoverable by any means
11:57:52scorchewell, any non-hardware means
11:58:14phlasphyi am thinking about just using ALAC on normal firmware instead of FLAC on rockbox
11:58:33scorchethat is your choice to make
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11:58:42phlasphyi like flac though
11:58:49scorcheas do i =)
11:59:00phlasphywhat o/s do you run on your pc
11:59:45scorchewindows and linux
12:00:08phlasphywhat do you play audio in?
12:00:37scorchewhy is this questioning necessary? (sorry, but we like to keep things in this channel about rockbox)
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12:01:12scorcheif you really HAVE to know for some odd reason, that is what PMs are for
12:01:49phlasphyso for a 5g rockbox is stable?
12:02:15scorchefor a 5g, yes
12:03:02phlasphyand rockbox runs flac flawlessly
12:03:40scorchenot quite sure what you mean by that, but yes
12:03:57phlasphyno audio glitches or anything
12:04:48phlasphydoes the battery life descrease with flac
12:05:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:05:48scorchewhat are you comparing it with?
12:06:15scorcheit will slightly
12:06:29phlasphyby about how long a few minutes an hour
12:06:37scorchei cannot say
12:06:42scorchebut it wont be a large amount
12:06:54phlasphyalso i have a few questions about ipod
12:06:57phlasphyis that ok here>?
12:07:11scorchenot really
12:09:02FebsLinusN: do you have any plans to update fwpatcher for iriver firmware 1.31? I ask only because I'm getting tired of reading threads about it.
12:09:59FebsPersonally, I can't understand why Rockbox users even care about 1.31 since it only adds things that Rockbox already has.
12:10:56LinusNno, i don't plan on supporting it until i release a new bootloader
12:11:28phlasphyok when i get my ipod i will dual boot this and original
12:11:36LinusNand i care even less just because 1.31 doesn't add anything useful
12:11:52LinusNlunch time
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12:15:01jbahey guys am having trouble trying to debug something, getting a compiler wraning and linker error:
12:15:10jba char debug_buf[255];
12:15:10jba sprintf(debug_buf, "1)audio_get_buffer playing is %d, audio_is_initialzed is %d", playing, audio_is_initialized);
12:15:21jbawhat did i do wrong there?
12:15:26jbait's been a long time for c
12:20:13jbaam trying to create a debug string inside playback.c using sprintf but it doesn't want to work
12:27:14jbai can't even find the definition of sprintf anhywhere in the source
12:28:15jbausing snprintf worked ?
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12:30:49Slasherisnprintf should be always used to avoid buffer overflows unless you can be very certain those can't happen
12:31:33jbaSlasheri, i see sprintf used all over the place without even including sprintf.h, yet i couldn't use it in playback.c
12:31:34Slasherisprintf is defined in firmware/common/sprintf.c
12:31:50Slasheriyou included sprintf.h?
12:31:56jbayeah but where is it prototyped ?
12:32:06jbaplayback.c already included sprintf.h
12:32:26Slasheriok, there is no prototype for sprintf
12:32:44Slasheriprobably just a good thing..
12:32:57jbaplayback.c already included sprintf.h
12:33:12Slasherijust do snprintf(debug_buf, sizeof debug_buf, ...
12:33:15Slasheriyeah, that's for snprintf
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12:36:57jbahmm, now the gui_syncsplash call isn't even working :(
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12:44:12jbanow i can't get the splash i wrote in playback.c to show
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12:58:47Tyronemaskellhello all
12:58:55Tyronemaskellpls can someone help me
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13:00:31Tyronemaskellwith a good wma converter pls
13:00:43Tyronemaskelltried foobar but it did not work
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13:09:57Tyronemaskellhello anyone ?
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13:11:46LinusNi guess nobody here has any tips for you... :-(
13:12:42blue_lizardprobably because "hello anyone ?" is not a part of rockbox
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13:20:12LinusNblue_lizard: he asked for hints about good wma converters
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13:26:02tehsmoTyronemaskell: look on the hydrogenaudio forums perhaps, they're good with codec stuff
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13:30:36phlasphyhey again
13:30:54phlasphyscorche, is there any plans for rockbox on a creative?
13:31:16LinusNno plans
13:31:30LinusNbut anyone can do it if he puts his mind to it
13:31:37phlasphyeven a noob?
13:31:44LinusNwell, not anyone :-)
13:32:01LinusNwhat i meant was that we don't make plans
13:32:15phlasphyso it may happen
13:32:24LinusNif someone with the right skills start working on it, we will certainly cheer
13:32:42LinusNthat's how all ports get done
13:32:45phlasphyi have heard bad things about ipods audio quality
13:33:23phlasphydo you have an ipod
13:35:12phlasphyguess not
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13:36:05phlasphyLinusN, what would be the best sound quality mp3 player
13:36:10phlasphybrand wise?
13:36:49LinusNi dunno really
13:36:51blue_lizardafaik there are big differences between the several ipod generations
13:37:10blue_lizardso one cannot say ipod has a bad sound quality
13:37:22LinusNi think iriver and x5 have very good quality
13:37:24phlasphyi mean the 5.5 generation
13:37:27blue_lizardyou need to be more specific
13:37:44LinusNand i didn't find anything wrong with my ipod video either, it sounds quite allright to me
13:37:53blue_lizardafaik there has been a lot of discussion about that in the ipod forums
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13:38:22phlasphyblue_lizard, do you have a link
13:38:28blue_lizardi have alink that compares iriver h300 against cowon x5
13:38:46blue_lizardi dont have an ipod and therefore no link about it
13:39:21phlasphyalso can you tell the differance in soud quality between mp3 VBR and flac
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13:40:34blue_lizardflac should be deffinitively better than mp3 because it is lossless
13:40:50blue_lizardthats a big difference
13:40:55phlasphyi mean audible differance
13:41:19blue_lizarddepends what do you mean with audible
13:41:32blue_lizardyour ear is something you can teach things
13:41:57blue_lizardand of course it depends on the rest of the equipment
13:42:06FebsYes, you can even teach the ear to hear things that aren't there.
13:42:41blue_lizardFebs: rofl, that topic again
13:43:09phlasphyok through average head phones
13:43:14FebsUse LAME and the -V presets, and it is EXTREMELY unlikely that you will be able to identify any audible difference between mp3 and FLAC.
13:43:16phlasphycan u tell the differance
13:43:27phlasphyfebs V0
13:43:29phlasphyi use
13:43:34*wehn swears his gold plated USB cable makes his MP3s sound better.
13:44:13*Febs hopes wehn is joking.
13:44:13blue_lizardand i swear my 2xEL34 makes my iriver sound better
13:44:24blue_lizardthe question is is it worth the effort
13:44:29wehnit's ok, i am.
13:44:31FebsYou have a tube iriver?!
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13:44:57blue_lizardand 99% of the time the effort is not worth it
13:45:07wehnlame -h V 5 or 6 sounds good to me. even with etymotic ER6i
13:46:40blue_lizardphlasphy: [13:41:25] <blue_lizard> your ear is something you can teach things │ crashd
13:46:42blue_lizard[13:41:36] <phlasphy> really
13:46:54blue_lizardask people who have tinitus
13:47:20phlasphybut how can you teach your ear
13:47:47blue_lizardof course not the ear but the system behind it and the brain
13:47:49*Febs has tinnitus.
13:47:56*blue_lizard to
13:48:15phlasphywhat is tinnitus
13:48:22FebsPermanent ringing in the ears.
13:48:36phlasphypoor you
13:48:41phlasphyhow do you get that?
13:48:50FebsToo many years as a working musician.
13:48:56blue_lizardfortunately my is at ~12kHz
13:49:09phlasphythat means
13:49:22blue_lizardit is easier to overhear it
13:49:51phlasphycan you teach your ear not to hear it
13:50:02blue_lizardsoem people have 2 or three tones between 2-7 kHz and that drives them crayzy
13:50:19blue_lizardyes you can learn to overhear it
13:50:34phlasphythat would drive me crazy
13:50:47blue_lizardit is the same as musicians learn to hear drums or bass or lead guitar better then the rest
13:51:05blue_lizardbecause they are more interessted in it
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13:54:14blue_lizardVincent van Gogh has cut one of his ears because of tinnitus
13:54:38phlasphywould you still hear if you cut your ear off?
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13:54:45blue_lizardof course
13:55:03blue_lizardit is not a pysical problem in the ear
13:55:17phlasphyi mean would you still hear people talk and stuff
13:55:19blue_lizardit is a problem with the nerves
13:55:41*XavierGr has tinnitus too :(
13:55:58blue_lizardif you cut your ear you could of course still hear
13:56:09blue_lizardbut not if you cut deep into it
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13:56:26*phlasphy thinks his dads gf has tinnitus
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13:57:25blue_lizardhe cut his earlap not into the organ afaik
13:58:08XavierGrat start I was getting crazy about it, after some months I think I am used to it...
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13:59:20blue_lizardat the begin the biggest problem is the fear thet you have
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14:03:35phlasphywhat kind of fear?
14:05:36blue_lizardimage in your ear it begins to ring
14:05:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:06:03blue_lizardyou go to bed, you know there is nothing to hear and you her that ringing
14:06:14phlasphyid hate that
14:06:25blue_lizardyou wake up and bevore you open your eyes the ringging is there
14:06:41phlasphyso why does it happen?
14:06:42blue_lizardi paniced a lot
14:07:09blue_lizardand after the doc sait it probably would newer go away ..
14:07:52phlasphyi would freak out
14:08:01XavierGrat start all freak out
14:08:07XavierGrbut then you get used to it
14:08:20XavierGrthere is not much you can do about it so....
14:08:29phlasphyso why does it happen?
14:08:51blue_lizardstress, to loud sounds (music,weapons)
14:09:06XavierGrwell I got it from a barotrauma. I dived to much into the sea without equalizing correctly
14:09:25blue_lizardsometimes a side effect of illness
14:09:55phlasphywould you rather be deaf?
14:09:58XavierGrsome say it is permanent slight hearing loss
14:10:14blue_lizardphlasphy: no
14:10:16XavierGrof course not
14:10:57blue_lizardhigh blod presure makes it louder
14:11:02*phlasphy wonders where his brother put his ear phones
14:11:28blue_lizardso one has to avoid stress and to much spices in the meals
14:11:55blue_lizardmine is getting better if i drink more water
14:12:26blue_lizardso i try to drink 1.5l water more at work
14:12:45blue_lizardprobably because the blod is more fluid
14:13:03XavierGrwell I can't say that I can hear major difference with different diets
14:13:36XavierGrI always hear the ringing when I am talking about it or there is complete silence where I am
14:13:39phlasphyahwell ill have to wait till tommorow and ask him where he put them
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14:14:31peturI hear ringing too atm but it's this bloody PSU of the pc of my colleague :/
14:14:47phlasphywhat is better quality V0vbr or 320cbr
14:15:31blue_lizardnow such things like ringing from an psu are far more disturbing then before
14:16:23XavierGrpetur: most of the times I let my computer on at night. The sound it makes muffles the ringing.
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14:16:46blue_lizardi never go out without earplugs
14:17:35blue_lizardXavierGr: i assume you are living alone?
14:19:36*petur has a near-silent pc at home so it wouldn't help ;)
14:20:27phlasphywho knows a bit about speaker specs
14:21:32XavierGrblue_lizard: in my room yes, I am alone
14:22:21phlasphywhat does sensitivity mean?
14:22:59 Part LinusN
14:23:22blue_lizardif you put power into the speaker it creates air presure
14:23:41blue_lizardan speaker with more sensivity creates more presure then one with less
14:23:52phlasphyso more is better?
14:24:00blue_lizardalso known as effciency
14:24:12phlasphyso would 9dB be audible?
14:24:25phlasphyFrequency Response 20Hz-20kHz 6Hz - 23kHz 6Hz-23kHz
14:24:25phlasphy Sensitivity 115dB 106dB 106dB
14:24:28phlasphywhich is better
14:25:01blue_lizarddepends on what you want
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14:25:16phlasphyhigh quality music
14:25:18blue_lizardsensitivity is not very important on normal amplifiers
14:25:27blue_lizardor earphones
14:25:33phlasphyfor an mp3 player
14:25:39phlasphyand these are earphones
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14:26:00blue_lizard106dB is morethen average
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14:26:17blue_lizard115dB is of course the best in sensivity
14:26:26phlasphybut response
14:26:29phlasphyis lower for that 1
14:26:35blue_lizardbut that does not say anything about the quality
14:26:48petur6-23kHz looks nice....
14:27:04phlasphyi know
14:27:12webguest20Why is playback code so complicated? The concepts are quite simple but the code is hard to understand. Could it be made more "orthogonal"?
14:27:12*petur loves bass that goes low ( != bass that is loud)
14:27:46blue_lizardpetur: therefore no tube amplifiers for you
14:27:55webguest20Or is it already optimized to ... can't no more?
14:28:10LinusNwebguest20: we are constantly improving the playback code
14:28:38LinusNand yes, it is complicated
14:28:44blue_lizardwebguest20: and of course rockbox uses the "tangential" aproach
14:28:54LinusN...but it shouldn't be...
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14:29:39*kurzhaarrocker is angry
14:29:45*LinusN hides
14:30:07kurzhaarrockerThat's not necessary, LinusN, as I am angry at my self
14:30:20webguest20I ask because I've read the wiki page about playback concepts, but in the code there are much more if's and queues and...
14:30:21kurzhaarrockerI just smoked my iriver h120.
14:30:34XavierGrouch :(
14:30:37kurzhaarrockerI inserted the archos charging plug into it and that fried it.
14:30:37peturwrong ac adapter?
14:30:45XavierGrdamn that sucks
14:31:13XavierGrwrong ac adapter is the natural enemy of H100s
14:31:28kurzhaarrockerIs there wisdom among theese geeks here on how to repair it?
14:31:28*petur has his chargers clearly labeled and always double checks
14:31:32webguest20Is there no protection circuit?
14:31:37LinusNkurzhaarrocker: is it completely dead? how long was the charger inserted?
14:31:45blue_lizarda diode would be enough
14:32:11kurzhaarrockerIt was inserted for ~ 2 minutes. It smells and doesn't turn on any more, LinusN
14:32:11LinusNa diode to protect against overvoltage?
14:32:25LinusNkurzhaarrocker: there might still be hope
14:32:27kurzhaarrockerA Zener diode can do that trick.
14:33:02blue_lizardbut i meant wrong polarity
14:33:16*kurzhaarrocker becomes hopeful on LinusN's prospect of hope
14:34:37LinusNit might help to replace a coltage regulator and perhaps also a few capacitors
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14:35:37LinusNit depends on if you tried to turn it on when the charger was attached
14:35:55kurzhaarrockererm - I think I did that ...
14:36:03LinusNif you did, the situation might be a lot worse
14:36:48LinusNthen there is a possibility that the cpu has been fried
14:37:27tehsmoyou could try to find a used h120 with a broken HD, might be cheap, then switch out the drives
14:37:41LinusNthat's the best tip
14:39:01n1sLinusN: What voltage do you get when your h300 is fully charged? I'm trying to figure out if the calibration is off...
14:40:21LinusNn1s: it often depends on how old your battery is
14:40:29LinusNbetween 4.1 and 4.2 volts
14:40:29*phlasphy is confused about which mp3 player to get?
14:40:44LinusNphlasphy: make a list of requirements
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14:41:09blue_lizardn1s: mine has 4.17-4.18 according to the rockbox info
14:41:13n1smine was 4.13 and is now 4.12 but whith the recent changes to barrety code it shows 91%full and used to show 100% full with 4.12V
14:41:22LinusNphlasphy: then you can easily narrow down your list of candidates
14:41:44n1swell, seems my battery is to blame then.
14:42:00phlasphyall i want is over 20GB and can play rockbox with decent battery life and high sound quality
14:42:27LinusNphlasphy: if you want a player that is still in production, then i'd say iaudio x5 is the best choice
14:42:42phlasphywhy not ipod?
14:42:50LinusNterrible battery life so far
14:42:54phlasphyohh ok
14:42:58phlasphylike how terrible?
14:42:59LinusNand bad performance too
14:43:12phlasphyperformance of what?
14:43:23petursound skipping
14:43:24LinusNplayback, it can skip if you have a "busy" wps
14:43:32n1soh, barrety=battery of course
14:43:51phlasphywhat is wps?
14:43:58blue_lizardn1s: our brains are fault tollerant
14:44:02LinusNWhile Playing Screen
14:44:13n1sblue_lizard: good to know :-P
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14:45:20phlasphyanybody here use/used arch linux
14:45:24tehsmohmm, how bad is the hit to battery life in the ipod?
14:45:40petur I heard 60%
14:46:09LinusNphlasphy: i use debian
14:46:33tehsmoah, found the benchmark page
14:47:33blue_lizardi use arch at home
14:47:55phlasphyblue_lizard, is it good
14:48:05tehsmohmm, benchmark page has entries between 5-10 hours for the ipod video. .good enough for me
14:48:31blue_lizardit is good if you have some experience with linux
14:48:56blue_lizardit doesnt do anything for you
14:49:16blue_lizardnot even as far ad debian
14:49:30phlasphywhat do you mean it doesnt do anything for you?
14:49:33blue_lizardit is the opposite of ubuntu
14:49:41phlasphywhat about as far as slackware?
14:50:23blue_lizardi only used debian gentoo ubuntu and arch tha last 7 years and dont know how slackware works
14:50:59phlasphywould it be worth buying a psp as a mp3 player?
14:51:41peturnot much storage, no?
14:51:59 Quit daurn|laptop (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
14:51:59phlasphybut that depends on the memory stick?
14:52:28 Join dau [0] (i=daurn@
14:52:41peturexpensive memory sticks, yes...
14:53:50blue_lizardand whats max on those sticks? 4gig?
14:54:23peturand rather what's the max capacity the psp supports?
14:56:10phlasphy8GB i think
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15:10:21leftrightwhy does a reset of settings fix issues/bugs ?
15:10:41lexphlasphy: but the 'unique'-equalizerset owns
15:10:58lexbut memory sticks cost so much
15:11:01lexon psp you know
15:11:12phlasphyi dont actually lol
15:11:18phlasphyi think i will get one of them
15:11:27phlasphyi already have a 512 one for my phone
15:11:32lexi have one already, i wish i had wlan here too
15:12:02lexbut snes on psp owns
15:12:13phlasphysnes on psp
15:12:21lexit's so nice to play zelda or mario where ever i want
15:12:38phlasphylex, can you do that on the latest firmware?"> ;)
15:12:48lexno, i'm using 1.5 and devhook for 2.71
15:12:56lexand 3.01 is the newest and they can't be used with that
15:13:09peturleftright: if people mix cvs builds with patched ones (or experimentals), or if a dev changes settings and forgets to up the versionblocknumber
15:13:15phlasphycan u downgrade?
15:13:28lexi did, i had 2.50
15:13:38lexbut i guess that 2.82+ can't be downgraded
15:13:38leftrightok, so its always good to do a reset anyway
15:13:42 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:13:50peturleftright: doesn't hurt ;)
15:14:17peturthings will get better when settings move to cfg files for good
15:14:25phlasphylex, join ###chat
15:14:53*petur runs off for a while
15:15:00 Quit leftright (" HydraIRC -> <- 100,000+ downloads can't be wrong")
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15:34:05*kurzhaarrocker is annoyed by his boss who acutally wants him to work
15:34:07kurzhaarrockerThanx for the hints regarding my broken h120 LinusN.
15:34:33LinusNi hope it turns out well for you
15:34:41*kurzhaarrocker to
15:34:43kurzhaarrockerSo long
15:34:51 Quit kurzhaarrocker (Remote closed the connection)
15:38:41 Quit [sellout] (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
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16:03:41webguest20On the wiki page LangFiles, section about deprecation, it says that description should be set to DEPRECATED. And then, few lines below, only dest is set to DEPRECATED. What is correct?
16:05:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:06:33n1sThe description should be set to DEPRECATED and the rest should be empty e.g ""
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16:07:45 Join Criamos [0] (
16:07:59webguest20 n1s: then the wiki page should be corrected. Do you have the wiki account (I don't)?
16:08:49n1swebguest20: well at leats that's how I _think_ it's supposed to be done, better wait till bagder gets here.
16:10:11webguest20 n1s: yes, I also have seen some places in english.lang that set desc (not dest!) to deprecated. And got confused by wiki.
16:14:26 Join Gnelik [0] (n=Miranda@
16:16:28Bagderthe desc field is for pure human consumption
16:16:45Bagderthe dest field can be set to 'deprecated' which is the same as setting it to ""
16:17:27*Bagder walks off to poke on Qt embedded some more
16:17:34n1sok, the wiki should be made a little clearer, then, i'll fix it.
16:19:11 Join spiorf [0] (
16:19:35Gnelikis onscreen keyboard supports foreign language symbols?
16:19:56n1syes, with a custom keboard file thingy
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16:22:06n1swebguest20: the wiki is fixed
16:22:13ubuntukinghello all
16:23:12Bagderlook a king!
16:23:25ubuntukingyes yes
16:23:32ubuntukingthy king has arrived
16:23:48Slasheriah, my ipod 5.5G is arriwing on thursday :)
16:24:35tehsmoaren't the 5.5G ipods not supported by rockbox?
16:24:42Bagderah, so rockbox on the 5.5 by the weekend ? ;-)
16:24:47n1sSlasheri: did you see the mail to the list from someone who wanted yo donate a h120 with dead harddrive?
16:24:55tehsmoor are you going to do the port
16:24:58Slasheriyes, but 30GB model is easy to make fully supported :)
16:25:04tehsmoah, cool
16:25:27 Quit scorche (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:25:43Slasherin1s: i just noticed it, might ask about it :) but Linus is also fixing the flash on my unit
16:26:03XavierGrSlasheri: did he receiv it? wow fast
16:26:14XavierGrreceive too
16:26:16n1sbut then you have two tries to fix the bootloader :-P
16:26:30SlasheriXavierGr: not sure, but it's in the post
16:26:45Slasheriand it has already arrived at sweden ;)
16:27:17Slasherin1s: hehe :)
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16:28:07Gnelikcan anyone give me a link to expression parser in written C
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16:29:01*n1s makes a very big comit ;-)
16:29:27sekondchakrais installing each days newest build as simple as unzipping the file to my ipod? or is it more complicated than that?
16:29:37lowlightwhen cvs add-ing files that were copied & renamed, do I need to change the $Id line first?
16:29:41sekondchakra(caution: n00b on deck)
16:29:48n1ssekondchakra: yep, just unzip
16:30:27sekondchakraany settings I could change to keep my ipod mini 1G from freezing up about 30 mins in?
16:30:57 Quit idnar (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:31:01n1sturn off the secret "fereeze timer" :-P
16:31:22sekondchakraguess I need the password for that, huh?
16:31:39n1sim not telling
16:31:41n1sbut seriously, what makes it freeze
16:32:10Slasherilowlight: if you want to be sure, just change it to $Id$
16:32:55sekondchakraI changed the Max Files in Directory Browser to a higher number.... now I'm pretty consistently getting data aborts!!
16:33:02sekondchakra(just NOW got another one...)
16:33:13sekondchakrasame number, too: 00041D10
16:33:31n1swhat files are you playing
16:33:41sekondchakrayou mean what KIND?
16:33:59sekondchakralemme check....
16:34:12sekondchakrait was the "Brainwashed" album...
16:34:34sekondchakrawaitin' for disk access to stop...
16:34:58sekondchakrayeah...they're AAC's....
16:35:29sekondchakrawould that make any diff?
16:35:52n1sthere has been a little bit of trouble with aac's but I thought they were fixed... Is your build new?
16:36:33sekondchakrabrand, spanky new... (From this morning−−literally)
16:37:03 Part phlasphy ("Leaving")
16:37:10n1sTry playing some other formats and see if it only happends with aac
16:37:27sekondchakraI'm all over it... Jeff Lynne this time... mp3's....
16:37:56sekondchakraany idea why changing that Max Files setting would seem to set off data abort's?
16:38:04sekondchakrabefore that I was just getting freezes....
16:38:06n1sand if you are sure aac causes it I think you should get Lear's attention
16:38:15ubuntukingwhat is the effect of changing the max files in dir browser???
16:38:22 Join dan_a [0] (n=dan-mirc@
16:38:45sekondchakraBEFORE changing Max Files: Freeze
16:38:50n1sthe dirbrowser will display more files in a directory with many files
16:38:55sekondchakraAFTER changing Max Files: Data Abort
16:38:59Gnelikdan_a: Hi Dan
16:39:09ubuntukingdoes it make it function any faster though?
16:39:10dan_aHi Gnelik
16:39:20sekondchakraAnd I was playing the exact same trax each time....
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16:39:24n1subuntuking: no
16:39:27sekondchakrain the same order...
16:39:46Gnelikdan_a: you have a free time now?
16:39:54ubuntukingnls: thanks
16:39:57Gnelik = do
16:40:08n1subuntuking: if you get "Dir Buffer Full!" messages you should increase it or reorganize your collection :-)
16:40:44ubuntukingnls, havent had that problem so far, thanks for the info though
16:40:56ubuntukingcurrently it is set to 400
16:41:25dan_aGnelik: I did a 17 hour day at work yesterday, so didn't have time to get any more done on the Sansa :(
16:41:43sekondchakradoes anyone know if the default theme is any more stable than icatcher?
16:41:58sekondchakra(i saw something somewhere about vu meters causing probs?)
16:42:09sekondchakraicatcher doesn't seem to have meters...
16:42:37Gnelikdan_a: it seems that originar firmware write's some data to the place where bootloader is sitoated and it crashes after booting it
16:43:13n1ssekondchakra: the peakmeters make music skip on some players (some ipods and h10 i think)
16:43:25Gneliki am talking about my bootloader
16:43:50sekondchakranls, so that implies that icatcher MIGHT be a better choice?
16:44:25sekondchakrai'll try it for awhile...
16:44:32n1ssekondchakra: yes, but it's not more _stable_
16:45:43dan_aGnelik: Describe how the OF crashes. Does the LED light up if you move the scroll wheel?
16:47:01GnelikIt dont crasher. I turn it off and when i turn player on my bootloader hangs up
16:47:24Gnelikit blinks with a long dellay by white
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16:48:15Gnelikdan_a: Can you try to do this?
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16:51:52sekondchakrawell, I just got the identical data abort code playing some mp3's... so it wouldn't seem to be an AAC issue...!
16:52:10sekondchakraand no peakmeters going, either...
16:52:34dan_aGnelik: Building it now
16:55:54dan_aGnelik: You need a delay before the key repeat starts on the menu... I'm just checking that booting RB works a couple of times, and then I'll try OF.
16:57:12dan_aNo, it doesn't matter what firmware I boot, your bootloader only works once. That's weird!
16:58:13GnelikGreat :) Boot once and threw you playe away
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16:59:45dan_aI suspect it might be the timer interrupts... I seem to recall that PP chips don't like using sleep() in the bootloader. Try changing sleep(HZ/10) to udelay(100)
17:01:56Gnelik100 is to little
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17:03:13GnelikHm. Menu is working now but strange things in messages area left
17:03:16*dan_a forgets the difference between milliseconds and microseconds again
17:05:33amiconndan_a: sleep() does work only after the timer is initialised. If it doesn't werk in the ipod(h10/sansa bootloader, this init is missing
17:05:45amiconnIt does work in the coldfire bootloaders
17:06:15 Quit ender` (" I have a theory that it's impossible to prove anything, but I can't prove it.")
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17:06:52dan_a*something* isn't being initialised. If you boot in recovery mode, and reboot without doing anything, it works again.
17:08:20 Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection)
17:08:52dan_aGnelik: I like the look of your bootloader, but one of the reasons for having the firmware selected by pressing a button is so that whichever firmware is chosen boots as fast as possible. Could you make the menu come up only if "menu" is pressed, otherwise it boots Rockbox?
17:14:30dan_aamiconn: On the PortalPlayer machines, setting up the timer interrupt is #ifdef-ed out for the bootloader
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17:16:20sekondchakrais anyone in the rockbox "inner circle" likely to be interested in my freeze/data abort situation here? I mean should I let anyone know officially?
17:16:23amiconnI wonder why...
17:16:45sekondchakraI just lowered the Max Files setting to 950 (from 1000) and now I'm getting freezes again−−instead of Data aborts...
17:16:55sekondchakraso it seems pretty consistent...
17:17:04dan_aamiconn: At a guess, Apple OF wouldn't boot if interrupts were initialised
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17:17:52amiconnWorth a test imho
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17:19:25obosekondchakra: you can try an unsupported build that disables frequency scaling (
17:20:16Athanatoshey guys
17:20:58sekondchakraobo ... thanks....I'll check that out...!
17:21:09sekondchakrathanks, everyone...
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17:22:12Athanatosi was reading the install manual and it says that 2.5 is the stable release out but i bloody don't see it in the downloads section for my ipod, only for those archos players
17:22:18Athanatosmust i use a daily release?
17:23:19 Quit petur ("*plop*")
17:23:28n1sthe maual also says (right below) "Note: The current stable release is available only for Archos jukeboxes. There has not yet been a stable release for the Ipod Color. Until there is a stable release for Ipod Color, use a daily build or CVS build."
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17:29:41webguest20n1s: should the dest string for deprecated entries not set to "" (instead of 'deprecated')?
17:31:09n1swebguest20: it's set to deprecated without quotes just to be easier to read, it could be "" just as well.
17:32:27webguest20n1s: I saw somewhere that by setting it to "" you save memory
17:32:57 Quit rconan (Remote closed the connection)
17:33:41n1syes but afaik lang v2 handles the deprecated string as a special case and therefore no quotes, if you put "deprecated" in it would probably eat those few bytes
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17:35:02webguest20 n1s: ok. Just wanted to be sure. BTW: isn't it decided by desc? Then you could have anything in source, dest etc. −− and it would be ignored.
17:37:01webguest20 n1s: I'll take a look at the gen script. I'm not a perl expert though.
17:37:10n1sdest: is just a description meant for translators afaik
17:39:20*n1s stares angrily at TeX
17:40:04webguest20 n1s: so DEPRECATED in this fields is also just a convenience for translators and not handled specially by the script? That should be changed!
17:40:48*webguest20 loves (La)TeX!
17:41:10n1soh, sorry I meant desc: not dest:
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17:41:50*petur pops in for 1 second to pass this link:
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17:42:37webguest20 n1s: so is there a field that the script analyzes to be 'DEPRECATED' and treates the entry as deprecated?
17:43:51webguest20Or is only a check made that all fields are empty ("")?
17:43:56 Quit bbroke ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
17:45:05n1swebguest20: afaik the script handles the id: source: and dest: when building a .lng, when all the strings are empty, well the strings are empty, they're still there, and desc: is used by the translation script to tell translators what the string is used for.
17:45:21n1sno only id: and dest:
17:45:29n1ssource is also translation
17:46:35n1slangv2 gained some fancy new features such as the special keywords deprecated and none, none will not make a string but deprecated will make an empty one (again afaik)
17:47:29n1sBut if you really want to get the dirty details you should talk to Bagder :-)
17:47:32Bagderand langv2 primarily introduced target-specific translations
17:47:46webguest20'deprecated' where?
17:47:52n1snär man talar om trollen :P
17:48:20n1swebguest20: dest:
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17:50:28webguest20 n1s: but in english.lang there are several entires (e.g. LANG_DIRCACHE_REBOOT) with desc=DEPRECATED and dest=""!
17:50:54webguest20Is english.lang wrong then?
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17:51:24webguest20Bagder: why don't you say an ultimate word?
17:51:33BagderI did already
17:51:38Bagderdesc can say anything
17:51:41n1sdeprecated == ""
17:52:47Bagderdarnit HD resolution is a lot of pixels...
17:52:48webguest20Bagder: ok, sorry, must have missed smth.
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18:19:54 Join _ke [0] (
18:21:51_kehow is the battery runtime on rockbox and on ipodlinux? i know that both systems take twice as much power as the apple firmware.. but where can i find some more information?
18:22:30Bagderthere's a runtime wiki page that should have some ipod runtimes with Rockbox
18:24:14_kejust found.. but with ipodlinux?
18:24:36markun_ke: ask in #ipodlinux?
18:25:05Bagderin general, we mostly do Rockbox and don't know much details about ipodlinux
18:25:56 Join Ribs [0] (n=freenode@
18:26:33_kei thought yu guys were working together
18:26:50Bagdernot really
18:27:41Bagderbut then Rockbox is for many more platforms than just ipod
18:28:07_keok ;)
18:28:22_keanyway its a pretty cool project
18:28:38_keBagder, how often do you update yur firmware?
18:29:12BagderI have 3.5 targets, and I usually just update one of the infrequently when I decide to use that particular one
18:29:21Bagderone of them
18:29:57Bagderthe .5 being Sansa, and it doesn't yet actually play sound yet
18:30:13_keso once a week?
18:30:29Bagderfrom once per month to once per day, depending on my mood
18:30:42Bagderand on what happens in the project and in my life
18:30:44scorcheand whether you are developing or not ;)
18:30:49Bagderyeah, like that
18:31:49 Part webguest20 ("bye")
18:32:12Bagderand I've been a bit on the absent side in that department lately
18:32:39scorcheto the sadness of many
18:32:57_keis there some hidden place for MANY ipod g5 wps-themes? maybe..
18:33:38scorcheas well as the WPSGallery in the wiki, those are the main 2 places
18:34:33_kejust found those ;)
18:36:00Genre9mp3_ke: feel free to download whatever you like, and if you ever find someone trying sell it to you run away!
18:36:22scorchenot necessarily ;)
18:36:27scorchethere is a right way to do things
18:36:51Genre9mp3any news on that scorche?
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18:37:33Bagderwell it isn't against any law nor license to attempt to sell these things
18:37:56Bagderjust probably not a very profitable business
18:38:31scorchejust have to give credit where it is due, ask permission from the WPS authors, most likely post source, etc
18:40:31Genre9mp3scorche: Do you know any wps creator that would like the idea that someone (tries to) make money from their themes, especially when they already share them for free?
18:40:54scorcheif they asked politely, i wouldnt mind
18:41:02scorchebut they are copyrighted
18:41:08scorcheso permission must be asked
18:41:15BagderGenre9mp3: every single open source app in the world can be sold like that
18:41:26Bagderso why would WPS creators be different?
18:42:24rasherActually, there's not really any clear license on the WPS is there? (apart from those in CVS)
18:42:27Genre9mp3sure... but this is unfair for a possible buyer when it's already free in the gallery
18:42:38Bagderrasher: no, you'd have to ask for permission/license first
18:42:51BagderGenre9mp3: I disagree
18:42:59 Quit kubiix ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
18:43:01Bagderlooooots of people buy linux
18:43:10Bagderif though it is downloadable perfectly free
18:43:13Bagdereven though
18:43:49Genre9mp3I can understand this for an OS, but for a single file and some bmps? Why someone wants to buy such a thing?
18:43:54scorcherasher: i was under the impression that because they are not under any specified license, they are copyrighted....or something like that...
18:44:04rasherWell yes
18:44:15rasherI meant a license that permitted redistribution
18:44:19scorcheGenre9mp3: he isnt offering to sell it to them...he is doing the service of installing
18:44:29BagderGenre9mp3: well, if there's a market someone might buy them and then there is a market as otherwise nobody would buy them...
18:44:59Bagderand I can understand people wanting to buy a pre-installed rockbox player
18:45:09Bagderif not too expensive
18:45:17preglowdidn't someone do that once?
18:45:28scorchein fact, many archos and iriver devices on ebay have had rockbox preinstalled
18:45:30Bagderyes, I remember Jeff did it during a period
18:45:42scorcheBagder: was it successful? =P
18:45:47BagderI don't know
18:45:57Genre9mp3The "service" of installing a theme sounds ridiculous to my ears
18:46:37Bagderthen don't buy that ;-)
18:47:28Genre9mp3Well, I doubt it, but maybe someone does because of lack of information
18:47:49Genre9mp3...and I think, this is the reason that he doesn't give credit to Rockbox
18:47:49scorcheor want to bother
18:49:00Genre9mp3Providing a link to rockbox site will limit the (already low) chances for a buyer
18:49:21scorcheso that gived him the validity to not do it?
18:49:50*scorche leaves to go work
18:49:51Genre9mp3I didn't speak about validity
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20:05:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:05:49 Quit dan_a ()
20:07:17lowlightI need more dissassembly help...
20:07:41lowlightI don't see what the first BEQ is comparing
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20:10:03preglowbeq isn't a compare, it's a branch on zero flag set
20:10:37preglowthis looks like thumb code, which makes it act on the and instruction preceding it
20:11:17preglowit probably checks to see if some bit in r2 is set, then jumps if it isn't
20:12:36lowlightThat section was marked as a "subroutine". What do I look for in the preceeding code before the branch to that sub?
20:12:48preglowactually, it seems to check if either of bit 3 or 0 is set
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20:13:57preglowhmm, i don't think i know what the calling convention for thumb code is
20:15:56lowlighthere's the calling code (the previous code was sub_1E4A)
20:18:22preglowweird, looks like r2 is passed, but then just clobbered
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20:19:35preglowwhat is this for, btw?
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20:20:57preglowboth parameters are addresses, that's for sure
20:21:26preglowit does the same thing if none of the bits are set and if only bit 3 is set
20:21:28lowlight"both" ?
20:21:40 Quit bluebrother ("changing from remote to local client")
20:21:43preglowdoes different things for both bit 0 set and both bits sets
20:21:46preglowlowlight: yeah, r0 and r1
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20:24:13lowlightok...I think I see...they are referenced, but not set in the subroutine
20:26:26preglowthis looks like a switch statement compiled with a bad c compiler
20:26:38preglowit checks for an impossible case, probably the default: case
20:27:13lowlightwould the branch flag still be set from the CMP R0, #0 prior to calling the subroutine?
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20:27:52preglowas long as nothing modifies it
20:28:44preglowmost instructions do, but branches never do
20:29:01 Quit PaulPosition (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
20:30:09preglowbut yeah, the routine code translates to checking bits 0 and 3 of the address contents then doing the following for all cases: 1. none set -> writes 3 to both [r1] and [r0 + 0x14], 2. bit 0 set only -> writes 1 to both of them, 3 bit 3 set only -> writes 3 to both, 4. both bits set -> does nothing
20:30:14preglowin all cases it returns +
20:30:17preglow0 <-
20:30:33 Quit excitatory (Connection timed out)
20:32:52habanahi hackers
20:33:10preglowwhat's this code for?
20:33:25lowlightOlympus m:robe 100 bootloader
20:33:38preglowlooks like they use a crappy compiler
20:33:48habanais Gnelik still motivated to make a gui for dual boot ?
20:33:49rashergcc perhaps?
20:34:03preglowhabana: you'd have to ask him
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20:34:17rasherhabana: I think he's pretty much got one done
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20:34:39rasherExcept there's a bug, I believe.
20:34:45rasherWhich means that it only works on the first boot.
20:35:26habanaerr, weird. it would write ata after first boot ?
20:35:36habanaata -> data
20:35:43lowlightpreglow: is there any way to know what address the SP references?
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20:35:58preglowlowlight: sp is the stack pointer, it seems r1 points to a local variable
20:36:29Soultwisteri have this unofficial build do i copy it over erverything else
20:36:34preglowlowlight: as for at what numerical address, i have no idea, you would have to either simulate the code or play cpu yourself and see where it ends up pointing
20:36:34habanamaybe it's possible to keep it read only during boot ?
20:36:48lowlightright, but it does "add r1, sp, #4"
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20:37:36t4t3ranyone around to offer some quick help?
20:37:41Soultwisteri have this unofficial build do i copy it over everything else
20:38:26preglowlowlight: and that would be the in the stackframe of the caller, which makes it a very likely location for a local variable
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20:40:40Soultwister_hi i was dissconnected
20:41:42rasherSoultwister_: Just unzip it on top of what you have now. That should be enough unless the maintainer is doing something stupid, in which case you'll proably have to ask him
20:41:46Soultwister_i have a unofficial build called john build do i overwrite everthing else to install
20:42:09Soultwister_cool ill try
20:43:21lowlightpreglow: so would this "STMFD SP!, {R0-R12,LR}" set what's on the stack?
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20:45:48t4t3rwhenever my ipod boots up with rockbox, it shows the file contents of the ipod (rockbox, calendars, contents, etc). how do i get it to start up in the file browser like it should?
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20:46:14preglowlowlight: yes
20:46:48preglowlowlight: if nothing happens to the sp after that, then r1 is what is at sp + 4
20:47:05preglowthat is, the old sp1 value
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20:59:05preglowr1 value...
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21:09:37Soultwister_do i have to create playlist on rockbox
21:10:19Soultwister_or is there another way
21:10:35 Join excitatory [0] (
21:10:40 Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear)
21:11:00Soultwister_anyone know
21:11:28markunSoultwister_: just click on a song, it will play the whole dir
21:12:01niskelis there a way to clear the playlist on the iPod?
21:12:18markunniskel: does the ipod have a stop button?
21:12:19Soultwister_well i have radio shows thats sequencial
21:12:23LearAnyone familiar with iso_encode?
21:12:29niskelmarkun: nope
21:12:34bluebrotherniskel, just create a new one by e.g. playing a new song
21:12:35niskelmarkun: that is the problem
21:12:54niskelbluebrother: but I dont want an entire dir pulled in
21:13:02markunLear: a bit
21:13:50LearThe count argument, that's the number of chars to write?
21:13:59LearSorry, I mean read. :)
21:14:00Soultwister_so can u make a playlist outrside rockbox
21:14:10Lear(From the iso string.)
21:14:20bluebrotherSoultwister_, you can.
21:14:50Soultwister_well where do i put these playlist and program can i use
21:15:00Soultwister_thanks in advance
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21:15:43bluebrotheryou can put the playlists anywhere. If they contain relative path names it's no problem at all, if they contain absolute path names you need to make sure that paths are absolute in terms of the players disk
21:15:49markunLear: you are talkint about iso_DEcode, right?
21:16:03LearErh, yes. :) (Didn't get much right there...)
21:16:03bluebrotheri.e. to the drive letter your player becomes when connected to your pc.
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21:16:29Soultwister_so i can use media monkey
21:17:42markunLear: yes, looks like the max length of the string in bytes
21:18:05LearSo, you can't really tell how many bytes will be written...
21:18:13Soultwister_as long as i make in the playlist inside ipod drive
21:18:14lowlightSoultwister_: you want to make .m3u files. If media monkey makes them, then yes.
21:19:21Soultwister_ahh thanks
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21:21:18Learmarkun: would be nice with an argument specifying size of utf8 buffer.
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21:26:10jjl55hey i was wondering why my rockboxed ipod boots up showing the folders and stuff instead of the file browser...anyone know how to fix that?
21:26:34bluebrotherjjl55, showing up the folders? What do you mean?
21:27:19jjl55it shows the actual folders in the root directory of the ipod (rockbox, notes, calendar, etc)
21:27:52bluebrotherthat's perfectly ok. What are you expecting?
21:28:24jjl55i thought it was supposed to come up after the splash screen with a list of all my music folders
21:28:56bluebrotherno. Rockbox uses a file view as default
21:29:08n1sjjl55: look for database in the manual
21:29:16bluebrotheralternatively you can use the database view
21:29:40jjl55okay maybe thats what im expecting
21:30:02bluebrotheryou can also look for the term "tagcache" −− that's what it was called until some days ago
21:30:39bluebrotherespecially when browsing the forums
21:30:49jjl55okay, thank you bluebrother and n1s, i will try that when i get home
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21:49:38lowlightpreglow: what's the arm (thumb?) instructions "BPL" and "BMI"? I can't find them in the docs.
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21:56:31LearBranch if plus/minus?
21:56:37 Join Seed [0] (
21:56:43amiconnlowlight: These are conditional branches, they are in the reference manual
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21:57:44LearBtw, anyone know the filename encoding used by Windows (as seen by the simulator at least) when opening files?
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22:04:17 Quit TeaSea (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:04:25*lowlight downloads a different arm manual
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22:45:29scorcheBagder: he wrote back
22:46:49dan_ascorche: What did he say?
22:47:01scorcheIn fact it's very easy: You can boot your iPod as USB Mass-Storage Drive (this is a build in functionality). In this mode, it is possible to change the bootloader. The bootloader is selfwritten and just a single binary file in the root directory of the iPod. After that, we can start our own application instead of the iPod software, or, switch back to the original software while booting the player (thx to the selfwritten bootloader).
22:47:01scorcheThe application itself is a normal C++ Application compiled with the GCC for ARM processors.
22:47:01DBUGEnqueued KICK scorche
22:47:01scorcheC YA
22:47:28scorcheI asked him how it was possible to do this with an ipod...
22:47:45scorche"our own application"
22:47:48 Quit daurn|laptop (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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22:49:06pixelmascorche: did you mention rockbox at any point in your email?
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22:49:35scorchethat was the point of this introductory see if he would claim it as his own or mention rockbox
22:49:46scorchei would say that he failed this test
22:50:04lowlightmy brain's not "LSL r2,r2,#1; LSR r2,r2,#1" the same as "r2 | 0x80000000"?
22:50:48bluebrotherscorche, are you talking about that guy on ebay yesterday?
22:51:44Genre9mp3"we can start our own application" hmpf...
22:51:46bluebrothersounds ... not very pleasant
22:51:48dan_alowlight: I think that should be "r2 & ~(0x80000000)"
22:52:04rasherStill perfecty legal, albeit pretty crappy
22:52:15scorchehow is it perfectly legal?
22:52:35rasherHe's not breaking any copyright agreements yet
22:52:42rasherNow if he keep that attitude up after the sale
22:52:46rasherthat's a different story
22:52:51bluebrothernot yet ...
22:53:18rasherWell yes, he doesn
22:53:25rasher't fill me with confidence.
22:53:29scorchewell, he is taking the WPSs and marketing them as his own
22:53:46FebsWe should buy one copy and then leave feedback saying "The same thing is available for free at"
22:54:00lowlightdan_a: thanks
22:54:33FebsWe should probably put a copyright notice on the WPS Gallery.
22:54:38scorchei wish there was a way to see if anyone bought his service
22:54:56Genre9mp3scorche: Previous transactions?
22:55:08FebsDo an advanced search for that seller and completed items.
22:55:18scorchei am at the moment
22:55:46scorchebut it is a buy it now, which means that you cant see any bids/winners like normally
22:55:49bluebrotherbut is selling artwork from the internet as his own legal in germany?
22:56:39hcsseems that it would depend somewhat on the license of the WPS...
22:56:54scorchei also wish that i could get a hold of the binary he puts on there to see if it is modified...
22:57:01FebsHis statement that the software is "selfwritten" would probably constitute fraud and a violation of various consumer protection acts in the United States.
22:57:40scorchehcs: they arent under a license
22:58:03n1sWe should put in the splash, and if someone removed it they would have to host their own sources, not just link.
22:58:04hcswell there we go...
22:58:27 Quit NickDe ("Leaving")
22:58:50scorchehcs: they fall under copyright
22:59:23hcsscorche: right, from which I would assume he has no right to use them at all, regardless of credit given, but I don't know the laws, especially in Germany
22:59:51bluebrotherbut rockbox is in the splash (as with the logo)
23:00:01bluebrotherbut maybe add it as additional line there
23:00:42scorchebluebrother: that is why i am wondering if he modified the code at all
23:00:54scorchethen again, he said it was in C++
23:01:12Genre9mp3he maybe doesn't know that Rockbox is in C
23:01:39hcsHas this sort of thing happened before (unattributed sale of Rockbox)?
23:01:49Bagderto lots of people C and C++ are equivalents
23:01:58Bagdermainly to those without enough clues
23:02:03rasherEven to g++
23:02:12rasherone way, any way
23:02:30bluebrotherbut that doesn't make him look better.
23:02:48 Join ani-adom [0] (
23:02:51bluebrotherhehe, he announces "volume normalization". I only know of ReplayGain in Rockbox
23:03:20rasherI guess the real problem is the WPS.
23:04:51scorcheBagder: suggested course of action?...the auction has ended recently and has not been put back up yet...should i try to get more information, wait till he puts it up again, or mail him now about it all?
23:05:27BagderI'd say mail him now
23:05:42ani-adomwho do i use patch bitmap-only?
23:05:50BagderI mean, you can just tell him what you think and inform him about the situation
23:06:01 Quit t4t3r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:06:03 Part lowlight
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23:06:21 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
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23:06:58scorchealright...I will do that when i come back in a bit
23:07:02ani-adomBagder: can u help me?
23:07:10bluebrothermaybe it's some kind of kiddie who thinks he is kewl by selling something like that
23:07:19Bagderani-adom: I don't understand your question
23:07:39scorchebluebrother: of course..."pimp your pod"
23:08:21ani-adomi want to use h300-rmx wps. and i need: his wps needs backdrop, bitmap progress bar and scrolling margins to work.
23:08:42ani-adomwhere can i get this patch?
23:09:02Bagderthe patch tracker
23:09:10Bagderand it sounds like multiple patches
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23:09:58dan_aWould anyone be able to help me with some ARM assembler? MrH had a look at our bootloader the other day, and his opinion was that it was not particularly dual-core safe. I've rewritten the assembler part of the bootloader based on the things he said, but it reloads itsself instead of the firmware.
23:10:07CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
23:10:07*scorche is off once again
23:10:43dan_aI'm sure I've missed something small and important about it...
23:10:53ani-adomBagder: where can i get this patch tracker?
23:11:00Bagderani-adom: on
23:11:55 Join jba [0] (
23:12:05ani-adomim on it.
23:12:25ani-adomand i dont know what to do...
23:12:36Bagderthen you're up for some fun
23:12:50Bagder1) get a dev kit installed 2) learn to use it 3) learn patch 4) apply patches
23:13:25 Quit freqmod (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
23:13:37n1s0) learn to search the wiki :-)
23:13:55preglowdan_a: having a look
23:14:07dan_apreglow: Thank you
23:14:10Bagder0.5) search for forums for existing custom builds with the patches applied
23:14:21Bagdersearch the forums even
23:16:10ani-adomdev kit?
23:16:28tyrionani-adom: search for it
23:16:51preglowfound a small optimisation if nothing else :>
23:17:10ani-adomni rockbox?
23:17:38dan_apreglow: That's likely - it's mostly a cut-and-paste job from the existing bootloader
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23:19:37preglowhmm, line 61 and on looks weird
23:20:02preglowseems like it does r0 = dataend - 0x40000000
23:20:17preglowand i think dataend is very much lower for the bootloader than 0x40000000
23:22:05preglowalso, line 57
23:22:11preglowshouldn't constant be 0xff000000 ?
23:22:15dan_adataend is in my as 4000e064
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23:22:46preglowyeah, here too, checked the map
23:23:46 Quit hcs ("Download Gaim:")
23:23:49dan_aI'd say you were right about line 57, but that is in the original loader (which works.) I'll try it with the mask changed, though
23:24:11 Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.75 [Firefox 2.0/2006101023]")
23:24:20preglowit probably doesn't matter since the address probably is so low it'll work
23:24:43preglowi could have sworn i used 0xff000000 when i first wrote the arm bootloader
23:25:32preglowyeah, it's correct here, in crt0-pp.S
23:26:01preglowin which case the optimisation i first talked about doesn't apply anymore :>
23:26:53dan_aIt's correct in the non-bootloader part of crt0-pp, but it's 0xffffff00 in the bootloader section
23:27:58preglowso i see
23:28:52dan_aBut that's not the cause of the problem - with the mask changed it still doesn't work.
23:29:03jba hey guys, anyone have much experience debuggin with splashes? As in why do they sometimes work and sometimes not?
23:29:10 Quit ani-adom (":")
23:29:10preglowahh, right, now i remember, the whole thing is linked for IRAM
23:29:21jbain particular why I can't get splash to work in audio_stop of playback.c?
23:29:51jbajhMikeS, if you're watching am trying to test a possible fix to the corrupt playing variable on the gigabeat port, but want to use the splash to do it
23:31:07jhMikeSjba: won't tell you since I can't get "I got a bag full 'o crabs here" out of my here :D
23:32:05preglowdan_a: hrm, i'm thinking line 72 might be pretty dangerous
23:32:18jhMikeSjba: what's up?
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23:33:12dan_apreglow: Are you thinking if the COP hits that line before the CPU sets the startup location?
23:33:44dan_aIgnore that, I'm getting confused between start_loc and startup_loc
23:34:10preglowdan_a: that line really turns into a pc relative load
23:34:27preglowno, wait, wait, this has to work somehow
23:34:32preglowor ipods would not be booting today
23:34:52preglowyeah, it does work, forget me
23:37:23dan_apreglow: Yes, I've just checked in the decompile, and that turns to a jump into IRAM
23:37:36 Quit Ribs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:38:11dan_aWas the optimization you were talking about to do an RSL followed by the LSL by any chance?
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23:38:41preglowno, it was doing a bic r4, pc, #0xff
23:39:06preglowwhich replaces lines 57-58 and saves eight bytes in total
23:39:11preglowjust nitpicking :>
23:39:37dan_apreglow: It's the only way I'll learn :D
23:40:08preglowdan_a: if you changed the constant to 0xff000000 that can be changed to and r4, pc, #0xff000000 anyway
23:40:18preglowlike i do in crt0-pp.S
23:42:09 Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:43:49preglowbut i can't see anything wrong
23:43:52preglowexactly what happens?
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23:44:31dan_aIt runs main(), and then reboots to the bootloader
23:45:04dan_aHmmm, the change you suggested saved more than 4 bytes...
23:45:13preglowit should save eight
23:46:20dan_a256, according to "ls -l bootloader/bootloader.bin"
23:46:55preglowwhat? changed to a single instrudction and saved 256 bytes?
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23:47:52dan_aYes. I'll undo it and see if it changes back.
23:48:40preglowprobably hit some alignment or something, then
23:49:18 Join Mercutio [0] (
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23:49:39MercutioHello everyone, have a challenge question for anyone
23:50:05Mercutioanyone looked at the zune much?
23:50:49dan_apreglow: It must be an alignment thing
23:51:53preglowthere might be a race condition in here
23:52:31preglowthe main cpu, after loading the firmware image, wakes the cop then immediately jumps to crt0
23:52:55preglowthe first thing the cop does after waking is starting to flush its cache, which means it'll be staying and executing in iram for a little while yet
23:53:10preglowthis depends on crt0 on the cpu not clearing the iram too fast
23:53:21preglowif it does clear the iram at all, hmm, lemme check
23:53:31Mercutiowell guess that tells me what I need to know for now
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23:54:02Mercutiowould donating a zune to rockbox help garner some interest?
23:54:07preglowit doesn't, then ok
23:54:14dan_aMercutio: I don't think anyone in here has a Zune. Nobody's mentioned it, anyway.
23:54:20 Part hcs
23:54:44BagderMercutio: if you find any dev who feels like getting a Zune would kickstart their effort on it - I doubt you'll do that
23:54:53MercutioI reccomend looking at it, some interesting possibilities if unlocked with linux
23:55:04Bagderrockbox is not linux...
23:55:22Mercutiook but you are about replacing the firmware yes?
23:55:22preglowwe only wish it was!
23:56:24Mercutioso unlocking the potential of the zune starts with replacing the firmware MS has put in there
23:56:33Mercutioor am I all wrong?
23:56:41dan_apreglow: I guess I could try to wait for the COP to finish invalidating its cache before jumping into crt0
23:56:43Bagderthat sounds right
23:56:46preglowbut i don't know what the hardware doc status is for the zune
23:56:56BagderMercutio: but replacing the firmware/OS of a player is a major effort
23:56:58Mercutioyou mean specs I assume?
23:57:02preglowMercutio: yes
23:57:11Mercutioyes but I think it would be worth it after looking at a zune
23:57:12preglowdan_a: doubt it'll matter
23:57:29Mercutiomostly for the wiFi
23:57:43dan_aMercutio: You might want to talk to the people trying to get Rockbox on the Gigabeat - I believe the hardware is somewhat similar.
23:58:09Bagderthe zune uses a freescale iirc
23:58:10Mercutiothats what I have been seeing in my researching on the zune
23:58:24MercutioI admit most of this is over my head
23:58:38Mercutiojust looking for the help from those who know what they are doing

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