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#rockbox log for 2007-01-21

00:00:32linuxstbCan you remember what speed you got on the H140?
00:00:38linuxstb(with current SVN)
00:01:00amiconnShould be somewhere in the logs
00:01:11*amiconn greps
00:03:09 Join Febs [0] (
00:03:57 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
00:04:54linuxstbAlso, how big was your test file, and did you make an effort to defragment your disk?
00:06:17 Nick Thundercloud__ is now known as Thundercloud (n=thunderc@
00:07:19enthehis Adam B aka voltagex here? he e-mailed me about DUMB and fixed-point ages ago
00:07:26Zagorumm, is resume not supposed to work in the sim? I get resume back to 00:00.
00:08:21amiconnlinuxstb: Bah, I can't find the speed data :(
00:08:49amiconnI didn't defragment the disk before, but there shouldn't be much fragmentation anyway
00:09:04amiconnThe file was several MB, but smaller than the available ram
00:09:42mattzzsorry for jumpin' in - simple question: Sansa e250 is arm-elf, preferred gcc is 4.03, right?
00:10:12linuxstbDoes around 7.5MB/s seem right?
00:10:19 Join thegeek_ [0] (
00:10:31amiconnThat's quite fast. Coldfire was definitely slower
00:11:05linuxstbThat's what my test plugin - using ata_read_sectors() gave me for a 20MB file.
00:11:08 Quit thegeek (Connection timed out)
00:11:16linuxstbOn my H140.
00:11:22*amiconn received the first necessary part for firewire exploration
00:11:40amiconnThe firewire cable. Now I just have to wait for the 6pin-4pin adapter
00:12:33linuxstbmattzz: Yes.
00:12:51mattzzlinuxstb, thanks.
00:12:54amiconnlinuxstb: At what clock?
00:13:05amiconnI usually run such speed tests uboosted
00:13:14enthehok, slightly revised question: does anyone know Adam B aka voltagex? he e-mailed me about DUMB and fixed-point ages ago
00:14:16>>>"seen" used by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor) [snoop prevented]
00:14:18***Server message 505: 'logbot :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( )'
00:15:27amiconnlinuxstb: 7.5MB/s sounds reasonable when boosted
00:16:04*amiconn should perhaps make up a better speed test that does raw disk access
00:16:15amiconnIt's a bit dangerous for testing writes though
00:16:38linuxstbIt's OK on ipods, I can just write to unused space in the firmware partition.
00:16:49Zagorentheh: no idea, sorry
00:17:13enthehwho are the main Rockbox devs? I'm wondering where the request originally came from
00:17:16enthehAdam said he was new to the project
00:17:29enthehthey wanted to put DUMB in, but the main obstacle was the use of floats
00:17:48 Quit ender` (" To get as fewest unhappy people as possible, always bully the same ones.")
00:18:06 Quit robin0800 ("Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers.")
00:18:18linuxstbNone of our targets have a hardware FPU, so anyone could have told Adam to avoid floats.
00:18:40Zagorwell the last irc log with him contains "<voltagex> I wish I was skilled enough to hack on rockbox."
00:18:50enthehok, so that's his nick then
00:19:14enthehdon't suppose you know who was pushing for DUMB to go in? was it him?
00:19:14 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00:19:31enthehI'd be all for it ^^ I'm gonna look at making the official version fixed-point, since I keep getting requests for it
00:19:54Zagorentheh: can't say I do. for the last several months, the only mentioning of it on irc is you asking who wanted it :)
00:20:02enthehI'll ask him
00:20:06enthehthanks ^^
00:20:16amiconnIirc dumb was originally added to the source tree by HCl, but it was never integrated beyond just building the lib
00:20:23enthehah, so it's already in there
00:20:30amiconnIt was there
00:20:37SoapDUMB the 3d game engine or DUMB the Dynamic Universal Music Bibliotheque?
00:20:40enthehthe latter
00:20:58 Join thegeek [0] (
00:21:10amiconnSince nobody cared about dumb, it was removed again later
00:21:14enthehthough it'll probably become Darn Uber Mod Bibliotheque, once I've removed the pointless and very badly done genericity that just gets annoying
00:21:16 Quit XavierGr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:21:20amiconn(not too long ago)
00:21:53enthehwell, voltagex's original e-mail to me was last March ;; I was really bad with my e-mails for ages
00:21:56 Join robin0800 [0] (
00:22:10enthehfull-time work and insufficient sleep make entheh go lazy
00:22:37enthehdo you think there'd be interest in DUMB if it were changed not to use floats?
00:22:38amiconnUmm, there is no 'attic' sub-dir in svn?
00:22:51Mikachuno, you have to select an old revision first
00:22:57enthehno worries - I'll be changing it around loads, so I don't suggest you try and recover anything that was done with it while it was in there
00:22:58amiconngah :(
00:23:07Mikachuat least in the viewvc thing
00:23:36amiconnMikachu: How would I know which revision to check if that is what I want to find out?
00:23:48Mikachui dunno :)
00:24:04Mikachui would grep the svn log
00:24:11enthehlook for one dated March to start with maybe?
00:25:00enthehOn Monday 17 April 2006 06:22
00:25:10enthehsorry, April, not March - that's when I got the e-mail
00:25:12amiconnZagor: Is viewcvs still functional?
00:25:24 Join dave [0] (
00:25:32Zagoramiconn: looks ok to me
00:25:33amiconnThat'd be easier...
00:25:33davewhat version should i download if i wanna watch mpegs on my ipod"?
00:25:37davethe cvs build
00:25:38 Quit thegeek (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:25:40Zagoroh, viewcvs. no.
00:25:41davedaily build? :)
00:25:45 Nick mako_ is now known as makmo (
00:25:49Soapsure dave.
00:25:51 Nick makmo is now known as mako (
00:25:54Mikachudave: there's at most 23 hours of difference between them
00:25:58Zagoramiconn: I could resurrect it though
00:26:08daveoh ok i'll download the daily build.. i havent updated in a year :) brb
00:26:22 Quit robin0800 (Remote closed the connection)
00:26:24 Nick dave is now known as EnterUserName (
00:26:30amiconnZagor: Nah, it's not _that_ important
00:26:32 Join thegeek [0] (
00:26:50amiconnThe script seems to be there, but it doesn't find the repo
00:27:48amiconnlinuxstb: Btw, I also ordered an usb charger for tackling the reboot problem
00:27:53Zagorentheh: I think a good mod player for rockbox would be welcomed by many
00:28:02amiconnShould get it on monday
00:28:13enthehDUMB's memory usage is a bit high - I'll look at reducing that too
00:28:56EnterUserNamehey all
00:28:57amiconnentheh: It would also be rather useful if dumb could work without malloc()
00:29:10Zagorwe have a modplayer patch i the tracker:
00:29:14EnterUserNameIf i havent updated in a year do i have to anything special other than just unzipping the file/
00:29:25amiconnZagor: That's the simple one, right?
00:29:29enthehcould you write a simple malloc-like function for it to use?
00:29:40EnterUserNameso ijust unzip the file.. easy :)
00:29:43enthehsame way it has customisable file input?
00:30:00enthehgood, I'll just make that a hook then - but I'll try and reduce the number of separate, small malloc's it does
00:30:08amiconnentheh: We have a simple malloc for codecs, but malloc is generally bad in an environment like rockbox
00:30:28enthehbecause of limited memory I assume?
00:30:32enthehand danger of leaks perhaps too?
00:30:41 Quit YouCeyE (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:30:43Mikachuthere's not really a pool of unused memory
00:30:49 Join robin0800 [0] (
00:31:07Zagorentheh: in rockbox, the normal state is 100% ram used
00:31:08enthehDUMB has an option to prepare fast seeking data - it stores a snapshot of the state at 30-second intervals if you ask it to
00:31:25enthehthat's something that would be really useful I should imagine - if you've got the memory for it
00:31:58Zagor...because all ram that is not used for code is used for buffers
00:32:31enthehrealistically, is there any chance of getting a mod player in there then?
00:32:39Zagorthat's why static allocation works much better than malloc. avoiding leaks is a nice side effect too.
00:32:43enthehor any other player?
00:33:00enthehbecause if it's 100% used, then by definition you can't put anything else in, surely
00:33:34Mikachuthere's 512kB (iirc) reserved for codecs
00:33:39enthehand it loads one at once?
00:33:41Mikachuthey're loaded in there as needed, only one at a time
00:34:00enthehDUMB would need to store the samples somewhere though
00:34:19enthehtheoretically it could stream all of them if access to the mp3 store is fast enough and random enough
00:34:46enthehbut they might be compressed
00:34:53Zagorthe samples are part of the sound data, which is stored in the big audio/file buffer. just like the mp3 data.
00:35:00enthehhow big?
00:35:02Zagorcompressed could be tricky
00:35:05enthehdoes it load a whole mp3 in at once?
00:35:05 Join XavierGr [0] (
00:35:19Zagoras many as fits
00:35:21enthehit can decompress them on load, if it has somewhere to load them to
00:35:30enthehhow much RAM is allocated to sound data?
00:35:43Mikachuthe memory layout is built around codecs that decode streams of data
00:35:44Zagorall the ram that is not allocated for anything else
00:35:48Mikachumods don't really fit into that model
00:35:52enthehhow much RAM is there in total usually?
00:36:00enthehMikachu: yeah, I know :/
00:36:05Zagordepends on target. from 2 to 32 megs, typically...
00:36:08Mouser_Xentheh: If you get DUMB working on Rockbox, I will GREATLY appreciate it. I want MOD support (among other formats, of course).
00:36:14 Quit thegeek_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:36:23enthehyou'll definitely need a custom version, that's for sure
00:36:34Mouser_XI can do that.
00:36:38enthehso it's debatable whether it's worth me making a hook for malloc in the official version
00:36:44Zagoralthough software codec targets are usually closer to 32 than 2 :-)
00:36:51enthehbut I'll start by making the official version fixed-point, because it'll benefit all sorts of people
00:36:54Mikachuif you write it as a plugin instead of a codec, you can use the whole audio buffer as you please
00:37:11 Join belze [0] (
00:37:24enthehok, well I imagine it could be done and just be limited in what mods it can play
00:37:27Mikachubut then you can't use the normal wps/playlist system which sort of sucks
00:37:35enthehif they've got big samples, it won't be able to play them - or it'll have to stream some samples and might fall over
00:37:39enthehbut it could try XD
00:37:45enthehor cache samples, if they're not all used at once
00:37:50enthehah :/
00:38:11Mikachulike viewing an mpg or jpg file
00:38:15belzejust a small question: would it be easy to implement an initial volume setting together with fading for the playback resume?
00:38:23enthehcan I look at the API/framework for a codec anywhere?
00:38:30Zagorentheh: big samples shouldn't be a problem as long as they're not compressed. uncompressing multi-megabyte samples does not fit into the current playback model though
00:38:50enthehbelze: to fade the sound in? I'd have thought so
00:39:10enthehDUMB currently decompresses all samples on load
00:39:23enthehI think in XM files they're delta-encoded but not compressed, which is simple
00:39:31enthehmaybe for the benefit of zip if people want to
00:39:38mattzzAny Sansa developers online?
00:40:01enthehin IT files there is some basic compression, but I think it's just basic data entropy type stuff, no FFT or anything
00:41:01enthehZagor: hmm I see what you're saying - it could play them straight out of the file?
00:41:05Zagorentheh: as mentioned above, in rockbox codecs do not load the data themselves. it's more of a stream oriented approach. rockbox loads the data, and gives it to the codec. so you won't be able to uncompress while loading.
00:41:11enthehif the compression's simple enough, could the decompression happen per playing instance?
00:41:31enthehcan I look at the API/framework for a codec anywhere?
00:42:22amiconnentheh, Zagor: I don't think dumb will run on the hwcodec targets, and swcodec targets typically have 16MB or more
00:42:38entheh16 MB is loads ^^
00:42:40amiconnBut there is one swcodec target that only has 1MB ram...
00:42:42 Join Wiwie [0] (
00:42:47Zagoramiconn: yeah, I figured that too
00:42:49enthehor at least, should be once DUMB is optimised not to waste it
00:43:10amiconnWe might be able to get the simple mod player working on hwcodec
00:43:23enthehsimple mod player?
00:43:27amiconnI doubt dumb will run realtime on an 11MHz cpu
00:43:43enthehamiconn: why not?
00:43:57enthehif it's enough to decode an mp3, it should be able to do a simple mod file
00:44:02 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
00:44:05enthehmaybe not a 64-channel IT file with NNA and filters
00:44:13amiconnThe hwcodec cpu doesn't decode mp3
00:44:24amiconnBah, unclear
00:44:25enthehah, it's got hardware accel for mp3s?
00:44:43amiconnIn the hwcodec targets the cpu doesn't decode mp3, but the hardware codec does that
00:45:02amiconnThe cpu just feeds the mp2/mp3 stream to the codec
00:45:23enthehso all you use the CPU for is to present a nice interface and so on?
00:46:17amiconnbasically, yes.
00:46:32 Join linuxstb__ [0] (
00:47:00amiconnThe codec chip can be reprogrammed, but there are next to no docs how to do this
00:47:16JdGordonmorning all
00:47:21Zagoralso there's not much code space in it
00:47:22amiconnBut we can load a codec that allows to feed through pcm data instead of mp2/mp3
00:47:30JdGordonanyone know what the heck the app on the left off is?
00:47:51amiconnThis _could_ allow to get the simple mod player to work
00:48:04amiconnNothing fancy, just basic protracker/noisetracker stuff
00:48:08 Join Guest52768 [0] (i=pugsley@
00:48:09enthehwhat is "the simple mod player"?
00:48:50enthehcool :)
00:48:56entheh"not based on dumb" :P
00:48:57ZagorJdGordon: I belive that's "conky"
00:49:17JdGordoncheers Zagor
00:51:09DataGhostanyone knows what happened to GodEater? or is it usual that he's not here at this time/day? :)
00:51:12 Nick Everybody|away is now known as Everybody (
00:51:35ZagorDataGhost: maybe he's got a life :)
00:51:49DataGhostyeah I kinda suspected that :P
00:54:33 Quit robin0800 ("IceChat - Chillin with the Best of em")
00:54:38Mikachuwhat is this life of which you speak?
00:54:48 Join robin0800 [0] (
00:55:27enthehhow does request_buffer work? does it give you a pointer to some memory representing the contents of the file?
00:55:43enthehhow does that coexist with read_filebuf?
00:55:45EnterUserNamethe sounds all out of sync..
00:55:51EnterUserNameon the nano L:(
00:56:08Mikachuthere's no sync code in mpegplayer
00:56:09EnterUserNameany bitrate will fi it?
00:56:30EnterUserNamethe sounds quicker then the video :)
00:56:37 Nick Everybody is now known as Everybody|away (
00:57:00EnterUserNameIS there anyway i can do anything about it. any suggestions so it wont be as bad :S
00:57:13Mikachuenable frame skip and frame limiter
00:57:22EnterUserNamewith mencoder?
00:57:31 Quit lini (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:57:37Mikachuno, in mpegplayer
00:57:50 Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:58:02EnterUserNameoh i see
00:58:26EnterUserNametoo funny
00:58:34EnterUserNamei converted my mythtv mpeg to ipod :)
00:58:48 Quit robin0800 (Client Quit)
00:58:49enthehamiconn? Zagor?
00:59:05 Join robin0800 [0] (
01:00:13 Join Mouser_X3 [0] (
01:00:20 Quit Sikkan ("( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )")
01:00:44Zagorentheh: I'm unfortunately not the best person to answer this in detail, I haven't looked that much at the codec api
01:00:54enthehwho would know?
01:00:55EnterUserNameok.. ill keep an eye on this. ;) cant wait to you guys get syncing with mpeg player :)
01:01:02 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
01:01:04 Nick Mouser_X3 is now known as Mouser_X (
01:03:08Zagorentheh: "annotate" in viewvc says lostlogic committed those lines in the .h file, so he's a good bet. :-) but there are others too, it's just a bit too late here in europe for many of the devs to be here.
01:03:22 Join Mouser_X3 [0] (
01:03:23enthehhehe, I'm in England :P
01:03:40Zagorah, well then you know ;)
01:03:43EnterUserNamegod i love linux :)
01:04:08 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
01:04:16EnterUserNameSo are there any plans to make mpeg player better :) Rockbox is really cool :)
01:04:19enthehcan you tell me how file buffers work roughly though?
01:04:39enthehdo the file data get copied into a temporary buffer?
01:04:51 Quit XavierGr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:04:57*entheh should read up and see if the above makes more sense now he's seen some API
01:05:11 Nick w1ll14m|away is now known as w1ll14m (
01:05:22 Join JdGordon [0] (
01:05:43enthehthis is interesting anyway - it might mean I can change DUMB so you could use it without deviating from the official source
01:05:50EnterUserNamewhat bitrate does everyone use here?
01:05:52enthehI'm on the verge of redesigning the API
01:05:53*w1ll14m check's his email and just found out that today his new ipod has been sent, and will be delivered somwhere monday or tuesday
01:05:56EnterUserName44000 sucks :( hows 66000?
01:06:10 Quit shnee (Connection timed out)
01:06:51EnterUserNameman i want to get a new ipod nano first generation
01:06:58Zagorentheh: no copying is done unless you want it. think of it like a dozen files (can be of different types/codecs) are loaded into ram by rockbox, and then codecs are called with a pointer to "its'" file in ram
01:06:59mattzzanybody running rockbox on Sensa e200?
01:07:32enthehwhy bother loading the files into RAM in advance?
01:07:40entheha dozen of them? why not just load the one being played?
01:07:41Zagorentheh: to minimise disk spinup
01:08:02EnterUserNameWhat would you guys suggest for bitrate on video
01:08:24enthehwhat if there's a huge mp3? will it then load fewer files up to the same amount of memory, or just load what it can of the huge mp3?
01:08:29 Join XavierGr [0] (
01:08:54Zagorentheh: it will always fill the memory, even it that means loading only the first half of the "last" file.
01:09:12enthehso a mod might end up in that memory too then
01:09:20enthehor half a mod
01:09:29 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (n=thunderc@
01:09:56Zagorhalf a mod, yes. or the first half in high ram and the second half in lower ram...
01:10:14enthehhigh ram = faster to access ram?
01:10:21enthehor no
01:10:24Zagorno, just higher up in the buffer
01:10:24enthehcyclic buffer?
01:10:44enthehit should still be fairly easy to address over that join though
01:11:12enthehor ... maybe request_buffer etc. will force you to split your processing where the join is?
01:11:56Soapentheh: start with .01 Kbps per pixel and scale down until quality becomes too bad.
01:12:10enthehyou mean EnterUserName ^^
01:12:18 Join Alonea [0] (
01:12:18Soapoops, yes indeed
01:12:26SoapEnterUserName: ^^
01:12:36EnterUserNamehrm im confused
01:12:38enthehin any case, I've got a pretty good idea on what kind of changes DUMB's API needs
01:12:53EnterUserNameSoap: i dont know much about encoding which parameter of mencoder do i do that with
01:12:59EnterUserNamecuz the quality sucks right now at 66000 :S
01:13:01Zagorentheh: it might be an idea to look at the sid codec to see how it handles this. it has a little of the same issues.
01:13:01Soapthe bitrate one.
01:13:02EnterUserNameand im using 224 bitrate
01:13:13 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
01:13:17 Nick Mouser_X3 is now known as Mouser_X (
01:13:20EnterUserNameis 66000 better then 44000?
01:13:20enthehthe mod effect processing, file decoding, sample playback, etc. need separating properly so that you can just use whichever parts you need ... then you can write your own glue to overcome the specific memory systems etc.
01:13:21Soap224 bitrate video?
01:13:31enthehZagor: ok, will do - is it in SVN?
01:13:43EnterUserNamemencoder House_-_2007-01-09,_9-00_PM_-_Words_and_Deeds.mpg -of mpeg -oac lavc -lavcopts acodec=mp2:abitrate=224 -af resample=44100:0:0 -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg2video:vbitrate=60000 -vf scale -zoom -xy 176 -o houseipod.mpg
01:13:48EnterUserNameis what im using..
01:13:59enthehthanks :)
01:14:11Soapvbitrate of 60000 is obscene if it is in kb
01:14:30EnterUserNameSoap what would you suggest starting at?
01:14:42Soap.01 kbps per pixel
01:15:04EnterUserNameim confused
01:15:15 Join linuxstb [0] (i=5343d4aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:15:25Soapwhat is the target resolution?
01:15:29linuxstbEnterUserName: How bit is the resulting file?
01:15:34linuxstbI mean how big?
01:15:47EnterUserNameim totally new at this :S
01:15:57EnterUserNamethe target resolution is 176x132
01:16:03*entheh has never looked at sid before. This is so cool XD
01:16:09Soap176x132x.01 = 232kbps bitrate for the video.
01:16:15enthehhmm, that's 6502!
01:16:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:16:22*entheh falls in love
01:16:26EnterUserNameso the abitrate would be 232?
01:16:33EnterUserNameor vbtirate would be 232?
01:16:36Soapabitrate = audo bitrate
01:16:43EnterUserNameah got it soap thanx :)
01:16:44Soapv bitrate = video bitrate
01:16:51Zagorentheh: of course. sid music requires emulating the chips.
01:16:59Mouser_Xentheh: There's a NSF player in the flyspray, if you want to look at that. It might be of use as well.
01:17:01enthehyeah - I didn't know what chips were involved or anything
01:17:08enthehI know the NES used 6502, but I didn't know the SNES's sound chip did too
01:17:23EnterUserNameok im tryign vbitrate at 232 thank you :)
01:17:28Zagorthe sound chip is actually the 6581
01:17:28Mouser_XSNES used a spc700 chip.
01:17:28enthehactually I didn't know anything about the SNES really, and I only knew about the NES because I played with NESticle's debug stuff
01:17:33Mouser_XAs I recall.
01:17:45enthehah ok, but the mnemonics look the same as for the 6502
01:17:53*entheh learnt 6502 on the BBC
01:18:11Zagoryeah, the cpu is a 6510 which is interfacing with a 6581 IIRC
01:18:23Zagorand it is from C64, not NES
01:18:42enthehI'm not saying it's from the NES, just that the NES uses the 6502
01:18:49Zagorah, ok
01:18:49 Join Hotfusion [0] (
01:19:24Hotfusionhi guys. Just put rockbox on. Good stuff.
01:19:27Zagorwell, have fun. I have to go to bed.
01:19:39*entheh tries to imagine what would happen if the music team at work had to write SIDs >_<;;
01:19:49entheh(they can handle working with MIDI ...)
01:20:09Mouser_Xentheh: Did you see the NSF patch?
01:20:15Mouser_XI don't know if that's of worth to you, but it might be.
01:20:18enthehlooking now
01:20:30enthehdoesn't mean much to me - what's NSF?
01:20:35Mikachunintendo sound file
01:20:41Mikachusound dumps from nes roms
01:20:46enthehoh ok
01:20:53Mouser_XIf you like the 6502, I'm surprised you didn't know that...
01:21:00enthehwell I only used it on the BBC
01:21:02Mouser_XSPC files are from the SNES.
01:21:03enthehI never got into NES dev at all
01:21:05enthehor SNES
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01:21:37enthehat the moment I'm just trying to get my head round Rockbox's API(s) and how DUMB could be integrated
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01:21:41enthehexcept I'm getting distracted ^^
01:21:53enthehno, it's OK
01:21:57*Mouser_X wants MOD support...
01:21:57enthehit's my fault I'm getting distracted
01:22:13enthehI'm hoping I'll be able to do MOD, S3M, XM and IT - with filters for IT files XD
01:22:25enthehthat's what DUMB supports, but it needs a huge overhaul
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01:23:20Mouser_XYes, all of the above would be awesome.
01:23:27enthehand as I said above somewhere, I'll try and make it so that you don't have to take a copy of DUMB and modify it
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01:23:53enthehI'll rearrange DUMB so that you can actually just link against the bits you need and rewrite the slightly more system-specific stuff
01:24:06enthehthen I can carry on fixing playback issues in the official version and they'll go straight into Rockbox
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01:24:51Mouser_XThat sounds like a good idea.
01:25:03enthehlol - 'quickfloat' stuff which is actually not float at all but fixed point XD in sid.c
01:25:06enthehthat's so badly named
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01:31:59enthehheh, sid.c takes a very simple approach
01:32:07enthehit has a static buffer to load and copy the file into
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01:36:58*EnterUserName will wait for new improvement son video still :)
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01:41:30Hotfusionim dumb, but where is the max files in dir browswer setting located in rockbox?
01:41:46amiconnentheh: Yes, sids are small, and the (fixed) codec ram area is 512KB.
01:42:08JdGordonHotfusion: yes, its configurable in menu > general > system > limits
01:42:30Mouser_Xentheh: NSFs work the same way.
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01:42:59Hotfusionthx got it
01:42:59enthehso presumably that buffer functionality copies from Rockbox's file cache into the codec's RAM?
01:43:11enthehbut you can also request a pointer into Rockbox's file cache and use it directly?
01:43:19Mouser_Xentheh: NSFs can't exceed the size of the ROM from which they were ripped, and I am not aware of any NES games that exceed 512kb.
01:43:42enthehyeah - unfortunately mods aren't gonna be that easy ;;
01:43:49enthehI've got a 10 MB XM file somewhere
01:43:56HotfusionI must say I put off puttin on rockbox for a year on my iAudio X5L bu it's good now and hte battery life seems pretty good. And using rockbox I no longer get thew white screen on startup like I had with cowon's firmware
01:44:20enthehI don't have a portable mp3 player, unless a Nokia phone counts
01:44:26enthehI might get one once I get going on this stuff XD
01:44:46Mouser_Xentheh: Yes, large MOD/XM/whatever files are a problem.
01:44:56enthehI'm not gonna give up on them though
01:45:06Mouser_XIf you figure out a way around that issue, then I want to see the solution...
01:45:18enthehI see no reason why it couldn't stream the samples straight out of the file
01:45:28enthehif Rockbox has them in RAM, then it should be fast enough to get at them
01:45:31Mouser_XI want to port a PSF player to Rockbox (PSF=Playstation Sound Format. They're usually rather un-small).
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01:45:42enthehit would have to have the whole mod in memory though
01:45:47enthehin Rockbox's memory
01:46:20enthehthough I haven't looked closely at the API and how to do it yet
01:46:25*entheh does just that now
01:46:39*Mouser_X wishes entheh luck...
01:46:45enthehthanks ^^
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01:47:26enthehhmm, could be a bit tricky with this set of functions
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01:47:36enthehas someone said, it does seem very much stream-oriented - no easy random access
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01:48:30enthehhmm, there's a direct file access API too
01:48:38enthehnot useful here I guess though
01:48:44enthehthat'd spin the drive up presumably
01:48:49enthehand be slow
01:49:18enthehthis thing supports threads? ouch T_T
01:49:37amiconnNot ouch
01:49:54enthehsingle-threaded multi-step code is just so much easier to maintain though
01:50:01enthehbut oh well
01:50:04amiconnIt's pretty much necessary for what tasks need to be done
01:50:12enthehyeah, they're useful sometimes
01:50:16enthehwhat do you use them for?
01:50:17amiconnBut don't worry, rockbox does cooperative multitasking
01:50:26enthehyeah, I had that feeling
01:50:32amiconn...and codecs run in a single thread
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01:51:23amiconnThe typical number of threads varies with target and whether certain features are enabled
01:51:43XavierGranyone experianced with netcat here?
01:51:48amiconnOn iriver H300 there are 14 threads running after boot when a voice file is found
01:52:01enthehI guess we use those memset etc. hooks instead of the libc ones?
01:52:28amiconnyes, but that's no problem
01:52:39amiconnThey're #defined for codecs afaik
01:52:44enthehah ok
01:53:00enthehI'm hoping a codec could actually be statically linked with parts of the official version of DUMB, once DUMB's been reworked
01:53:12enthehso those parts of DUMB would have to refrain
01:53:17enthehfrom using anything in libc I guess
01:53:58enthehmaybe you would have to recompile parts of DUMB but you could take the source from each release so it would be minimal work to update?
01:54:19amiconnThe main thread handles the gui. Then there is a codec thread (and a voice codec thread for voice), an ata thread that handles spindown and registered flush functions, a power management thread, a backlight thread, a thread that scrolls text on the lcd...
01:54:31enthehideally I'm hoping I can carry on fixing playback issues in DUMB and they'll just go straight into Rockbox
01:54:44amiconndumb will need to be compiled from source anyway
01:54:52entheh... yeah
01:54:57amiconnOur targets have several cpu architectures
01:54:57enthehduh ^^ custom CPUs etc.
01:56:11Mikachuyou'll need to sync the files between dumb and rockbox svn manually
01:56:22amiconnAnother thing to keep an eye on is endianess problems
01:56:24Mikachubut it would be nice if you can just copy them in and have it keep working
01:56:31enthehamiconn: I'm very aware of those for DUMB anyway
01:56:39enthehDUMB works on the Mac :)
01:56:41amiconnok :)
01:56:50enthehMikachu: yep, that's what I'll aim for :)
01:56:56amiconnColdfire is big endian, our arm targets are little endian
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01:57:18enthehthis 512 kB of RAM - is that shared by code and data?
01:57:44linuxstbI thought SVN allowed links between repositories in some way?
01:57:56Mikachui think when you call get_plugin_buffer() you get a pointer to after where your plugin code ends
01:58:02amiconnlinuxstb: Yes it does, according to the online book
01:58:06Mikachulinuxstb: it does let you specify a subdirectory that comes from somewhere else
01:58:14Mikachumplayer has 4 or 5 such subdirs
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02:00:51enthehamiconn: so the file buffer stuff presumably returns pointers into Rockbox's cyclic file cache thing?
02:01:12enthehand it looks fairly easy to use for streaming linearly
02:01:39enthehdo you think it could be used for random access, so I can stream each sample as it's playing? presumably it's RAM and will be pretty fast to jump around in
02:01:42enthehsince it's cached
02:02:24enthehI can decompress on the fly, and then just cache a small amount of decompressed sample data if they're used a lot and the decompression is too slow
02:03:23linuxstbIt's not really a cache, it's a ringbuffer.
02:03:33enthehyeah, I meant preloaded really rather than cached
02:03:59enthehwould it be possible to seek around in the file like crazy?
02:04:07enthehthis is assuming the file fits in the buffer
02:04:18enthehand if it doesn't, then it would just have to reject the file
02:04:22linuxstbcodecs can either request a pointer to data at the front of the buffer (they are then expected to advance that pointer after processing the data), or perform a read() from the buffer.
02:04:25Mikachuthis is the buffer that's 95% of ram on most targets
02:04:45enthehyeah, I guessed that :)
02:04:45linuxstbBut the problem is the wraparound point - you're only guaranteed a maximum of 32KB of contiguous data.
02:04:49enthehthat's fine
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02:04:58enthehI'll handle wraparound points myself
02:05:21enthehso if I request a pointer to the front of the buffer, then advance, then access (and handle wraparound)
02:05:30enthehand then do the same again for the next sample I want to mix in
02:05:31enthehand so on
02:05:42enthehwill that work most of the time and thrash the system really horribly with huge files?
02:05:54linuxstbNo, you can't advance, and then access. Once you advance the pointer, the playback engine may overwrite the space with the next file.
02:05:57enthehwhat happens if the file is half-loaded at the end of the buffer and it needs to get the rest? will it keep the start?
02:06:04enthehok :/
02:06:14Mikachui don't think any mod file will fill the whole buffer
02:06:34linuxstbI don't think the codec can (currently) access both halves of the file if it wraps.
02:06:39enthehMikachu: on an old device with a 10 MB mod file, it might, surely
02:06:54enthehlinuxstb: I wonder if Rockbox could be changed to make that possible then?
02:07:02Mikachulinuxstb: can't it just rudely assume it continues at CODEC_BUFFER_START or whatever?
02:07:35enthehso when we say 'ringbuffer'
02:07:38linuxstbI'm sure a function could be added to return the two parts. But the whole file may not be buffered yet.
02:07:55Mikachuit might not even if it doesn't wrap
02:08:06enthehcan Rockbox actually have read halfway through, so the end of the buffer has old data and the start has new?
02:08:26enthehor does it always replace the whole buffer from start to end, and then start offering data from the start?
02:08:45Mikachuit can have several files on the buffer at the same tim
02:08:50enthehyeah, I know that much
02:08:58enthehbut the last bit it read - is that always at the end of the buffer?
02:08:58Mikachuobviously they don't all start at the same point :P
02:09:02EnterUserNameHi all would using FFMPEG autosync work with rockbox to fix the problem with video/audio syncing
02:09:11enthehI could just look at the code - where is it?
02:09:19linuxstbThere's a "low watermark", so when there is that amount of data left in the buffer, Rockbox tries to fill the buffer again.
02:09:50linuxstbentheh: It's apps/playback.c
02:09:59enthehright, so the amount it reads from disk in one go isn't always the length of the buffer?
02:10:13amiconnentheh: It wraps around when it gets to the end, not when rebuffering
02:10:23*entheh will look at the code
02:10:23amiconnDoing the latter wouldn't allow gapless playback
02:10:37amiconnIt needs to rebuffer _before_ it runs out of data
02:10:53enthehright, so presumably
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02:10:59enthehsay the buffer is 32 MB
02:11:03Mikachumidkay: do you still need to have that level hosted?
02:11:14enthehthe codec is currently reading from data at 22 MB
02:11:14amiconnAnd if you're unlucky, the last track is only buffered half-way
02:11:17enthehthe data end at 23 MB
02:11:35enthehthe thing notices that only 1 MB is left, so it reads into everything from 23-32 and from 0-22?
02:11:41enthehand sets the new data end to be 22?
02:11:44midkayMikachu: nope, i thought I said you could take it down some months ago.. :) anyways, no, thanks for keeping it up though.
02:11:57enthehgood, so it can end at an arbitrary point - that means it should be possible to say how much previous data you want to keep without too much extra effort
02:12:03Mikachumidkay: okay, it doesn't take a lot of space but i also don't want to fill up with random stuff :)
02:12:16linuxstbYou keep previous data by not advancing the pointer.
02:12:23enthehbut I will need to be able to read ahead a bit
02:12:27enthehincluding across the wrap-around
02:12:30midkayMikachu: that's cool, filefront has it now :)
02:12:40enthehand I will need it to keep the start of the file so I can go back to it
02:12:45Mikachuthe wrap-around doesn't affect how much is read in
02:12:52amiconnentheh: Yes, we will at least need a mechanism to 'lock' a track from its start
02:13:35enthehMikachu: but surely if I'm given a pointer, and I can just index it like an array, then it won't obey the wrap-around and the function MUST limit the length so it doesn't include the wrap-around?
02:14:11Mikachui guess so, but it'll continue filling at the start of the ringbuffer
02:14:13enthehMikachu: sorry, here I'm talking about how much _I_ want to read out of the buffer, not how much Rockbox will read into the buffer in advance
02:14:30enthehoh right - I see what you meant about crudely assuming now :P
02:14:33EnterUserNamewhat version of mpeg is rockbxo 4?
02:14:35enthehbut I assume that would be frowned upon
02:14:53SoapEnterUserName: 1 or 2
02:14:58EnterUserNamepj pl
02:15:02MikachuEnterUserName: you can play mpg1 and mpg2, but there will be no a/v sync no matter what you do
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02:15:14MikachuEnterUserName: apart from paying linuxstb large amounts of money
02:15:19Soappj pl? Speak English,.
02:15:25Mikachupyjamas please?
02:15:31EnterUserNameMikachu: Lol ;) So ffmpeg audio syncing option wouldnt work ;)
02:15:57Mikachumpegplayer just plays the audio and video indepentantly
02:15:58linuxstba/v sync is pretty close already, assuming you're getting realtime video playback, and have enabled limit fps and skip frames.
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02:16:25EnterUserNameya its still a bit frustratingim using a nano and it kinda plays like a slideshow
02:16:40linuxstbAre you using the COP patch?
02:16:57EnterUserNameno i downlaoded the Daily build off of rockbox
02:16:57enthehthis rebuffer thing
02:16:58Soapremember also, EnterUserName, that the mpegplayer can't rebuffer, so you can't play movies larger than your buffer - about 30MB on your nano I believe.
02:16:59Mikachui don't think this is a compile-capable one
02:16:59enthehhow does that work?
02:17:03enthehfor when you seek in a file?
02:17:05linuxstbYou should be getting 25-30fps with the COP patch on the Nano.
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02:17:26Mikachuentheh: normally all codecs get a chunk of data and decode it, and then they never want that chunk again
02:17:44enthehbut the user might seek to the start of the file again
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02:17:49Mikachuthen it's reread
02:17:51enthehpresumably it knows if it's still in the buffer and uses it
02:17:53EnterUserNamelinuxstb: could you provide me the url on how to incorpate patches?
02:17:54enthehand if not
02:17:55Mikachuunless it happens to still be in the buffer
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02:18:03enthehwhere in the buffer is it reread to?
02:18:15enthehdoes the whole buffer start again from the start of that file?
02:18:19entheh(or from the seek point)
02:18:21Mikachuif it's not in the buffer and you seek, then all current buffered data is thrown away
02:18:28Mikachui think!
02:18:30enthehI could just make that happen, couldn't I?
02:18:34enthehand then my mod will go from the start of the buffer
02:18:34linuxstbEnterUserName: You could try one of the unofficial builds that already has COP support enabled. I think senab has one.
02:18:35Soapwhich means under 18 minutes at yout 232 bitrate
02:18:47linuxstbEnterUserName: But all the instructions you need are in the wiki.
02:18:49enthehand I'm pretty much guaranteed that I won't make it happen again if I just carry on that way - unless the mod is HUGE
02:19:00EnterUserNamedooh ok
02:19:01enthehso all I then need is a way to detect the size of the buffer, and I can do that check, and I should be safe
02:19:10enthehhow about that solution?
02:19:15Mikachuentheh: if you have a playlist of mods, rockbox will load them all into buffer, but each time you reach a new one, you throw them all away
02:19:20EnterUserNamelinuxstb: i guess googling :) for senabs build
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02:19:33enthehhmm you're right - it would read each lot of mods twice
02:19:44linuxstbEnterUserName: It will be in the "Unsupported Builds" forum.
02:19:45Soapactually, EnterUserName, less than 18 minutes because I wasn't taking audio+video into account.
02:19:47enthehcould be worse, but not ideal
02:19:54enthehbetter to have the extra methods I guess
02:20:15EnterUserNamethank you linuxstb :)
02:20:34*amiconn made a suggestion regarding mod (and other non-streaming formats) handling
02:20:46enthehabout locking to the start of the file?
02:20:49enthehthat's the extra methods I meant ^^
02:20:55amiconnNo, that was a quick one
02:21:05enthehoh, did you make another one?
02:21:15amiconnI mean a method that avoids the wrap within a file, without unnecessary rebuffering
02:21:17Soap9 minutes roughly, EnterUserName, if you are using 224 for your audio and 232 for your video = 456Kb/s bitrate = nine minutes per 30 megs.
02:21:28enthehok, how does that work?
02:21:53amiconnThere is that guard buffer linuxstb mentioned (the 32KB at the end which are guaranteed to be continuous)
02:22:18amiconnMy suggestion is that this guard buffer size could be dynamic, set by the track loader depending on the format
02:22:51enthehwould a mod loader then set it to the size of the file it's reading in?
02:22:59amiconnFor mods, the loader would set guard_size = file_size, so if it doesn't fit at the end (before the wrap), the whole file will be wrapped to the start
02:24:04*amiconn goes to sleep
02:24:12enthehso that would mean I could just get a buffer representing the whole file?
02:24:29linuxstbYes, that's the idea.
02:24:58enthehwouldn't this need hardcoding in the loader then?
02:25:13enthehpresumably the codec isn't necessarily loaded while the tracks it'll decode are loaded
02:25:21enthehit might be playing an mp3 but want to prefetch a mod
02:25:45linuxstbThe loader knows what kind of file it's loading, so can do different things for formats such as mod.
02:26:12enthehbut it would have to be hardcoded there
02:26:31enthehseems a bit unmodular :/
02:26:32linuxstbYes, but codecs aren't designed to be independent from Rockbox.
02:27:13enthehyeah, it's true - it's not as if you can ship a codec separately, I assume
02:27:52linuxstbNo, any codec that someone ports, we would want to add to the official source tree.
02:28:02enthehok ^^
02:28:07enthehthat sounds like a really good solution then
02:29:25linuxstbThe problem is that not many people know the playback code well enough to implement it... I don't. I know how it works in theory, but not the nasty details.
02:30:09EnterUserNamelinuxstb: that worked..
02:30:15EnterUserNamethanks that build is worknig ;)
02:30:46enthehplayback code?
02:31:00Mikachueverything in playback.c and pcmbuf.c i think
02:31:05Mikachuis a mystery to most
02:31:08entheh(surely we're talking about the loading code)
02:31:16entheh(I guess that's in playback.c?)
02:31:25Mikachuyour guess is as good as mine :)
02:32:04Soapso who is the master of the playback code, then?
02:33:25Mikachui think lostlogic is one of two
02:35:06*entheh finds codec_seek_buffer_callback and looks at what it's doing
02:35:07Hotfusionim still trying to getg this to shuffle
02:35:31Hotfusionim making a playlist in winamp
02:35:36linuxstbentheh: Yes, the "playback engine" - the code that handles buffering amongst other things. The codecs themselves are relatively simple - there are lots of examples you can copy to understand the API.
02:35:38entheheek - firefox has just broken
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02:36:36enthehyeah, but we need to change playback.c for this to work :/
02:36:46enthehrarrr, konqueror uses proportional spacing for the code
02:36:48enthehthat's just bad
02:37:26*entheh fixes the config
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02:42:33enthehlooks as if playback.c uses a funky queue mechanism, presumably to talk to other threads ... maybe
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02:42:52enthehthere's an audio_queue which is used to reload the song when seeking backwards
02:43:06enthehjust if the point being seeked to has been discarded
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02:43:54habanai was reading disktidy.c , wondering if i could add an entry to delete .Trash-loginname dir created by Ubuntu
02:46:00habanathe only trouble i have is that bin dir depends of the login name and i dont know how to add deletion of a variable dir
02:46:03habanaany idea ?
02:46:47Mikachustrncmp checks only the first n characters of the string
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02:49:25EnterUserNamehrm it still has problems with syncing heh ;)
02:49:36*EnterUserName hands linux some money :p
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03:18:51habanaMikachu> kind of that ? if (rb->strncmp(entry->d_name, ".Trash-" 5) == 0)
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03:30:23Hotfusionneed to read the FAQ's a little more. Every file on my playlist in rockbox shows as error when created from winamp
03:31:59Mouser_X3Winamp doesn't follow the same format.
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03:32:42Mouser_XHotfusion: Open up a Winamp created playlist in a TEXT editor, and do the same with a Rockbox created one.
03:32:47Mouser_XYou'll notice the difference.
03:32:56Mouser_XWinamp locates files as such:
03:33:18Mouser_X(Minus the drive name, often)
03:33:25 Quit phrozen77 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:33:36Mouser_X(So, more like "\music\file.mp3")
03:33:48Mouser_XRockbox is like so:
03:34:30Mouser_XAll you need to do is to replace all of the
03:34:42Mouser_X"\" with "/" and it'll be fine.
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03:34:57HotfusionI can't seem to get this to shuffle random songs
03:35:02Mouser_X(Worked for me, at least.)
03:35:04Hotfusionno matter if I create a playlist or not
03:35:32Mouser_XI've never used the shuffle feature on anything, Winamp, or otherwise.
03:35:44Soap<smartass>How can you tell if random songs are shuffled?</smartass>
03:36:22Mouser_XSoap: At one time, I had the 3 CD soundtrack to Chrono Cross memorized.
03:36:31Mouser_XI would have noticed if it was shuffled.
03:36:33Hotfusionlike in cowon's firmware if I have shuttle on any songs in the list was randomly selected
03:36:37Mouser_XThat's just an example.
03:36:38Hotfusionso it was never in order
03:36:48Hotfusionim trying to get it to work that way in rockbox
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03:39:28Mouser_XHotfusion: Shuffle works me just great.
03:39:33Mouser_XWhat target are you using?
03:40:11Mouser_XI turned on shuffle by creating a list (it had over 1000 entries), and then pusing, and holding, the menu button.
03:40:26HotfusionI go to play list options and have it create a root.m3u8 playlist but the songs are in different order but each song is sequential order. That isn't true shuffle
03:40:56Mouser_XIndeed it's not. Turn shuffling on.
03:41:03Hotfusionit is on
03:41:09Mouser_XIt doesn't create shuffled playlists, that I know of.
03:41:27Mouser_XWhen going to the next song in the list, it should skip to a different song.
03:42:22HotfusionIf I have like 2500 tracks. if I go to an artists folder the very next song in that folder is played
03:42:31Hotfusionso no not sure im doing this right
03:42:55Hotfusionbut it's on :/
03:43:30Mouser_XDid you try what I said (Just want to be sure it's on)? While a song is playing, push and hold the menu button.
03:44:06Mouser_XOn my screen, there's shuffle on the left, file display in the middle, at the bottom, and repeat on the right.
03:44:53*entheh is trying to allay the Allegro community's fears at his proposal to change DUMB's API >_>
03:45:08Mouser_XWhen in that menu, if I push the left button, shuffle settings are changed. If I push the right button, the repeat settings change. If I push down, file display settings are changed
03:45:16 Quit capsaicin ()
03:45:31*Mouser_X again wishes entheh luck on that...
03:45:42Mouser_XI've seen how hard that can be sometimes...
03:45:51entheha couple of people want compatibility headers, but I don't think it's really possible
03:46:06enthehsome people are dynamic-linking, and I can't possibly keep it binary-compatible
03:46:27 Quit efyx (Remote closed the connection)
03:46:36enthehmy original proposal was new header and library file names and to keep the old one around so only projects in development would have to update
03:46:53enthehand I can't see a way not to do that ^^
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03:47:08enthehthey mostly seem OK though
03:47:17entheh... probably
03:47:48Mouser_XIf it gets MOD/XM/IT/S3M/etc. support on Rockbox, I'm all for it.
03:47:57enthehI know that much
03:47:59Mouser_XUnless it requires maiming people...
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03:48:32enthehlol ^^
03:48:37enthehI can choose carefully if you like
03:48:39enthehmake sure it's only n00bs
03:48:44entheharrogant ones
03:49:26Mouser_XHow about this. Make sure that if anyone is hurt, that I never hear about it.
03:49:38enthehdon't worry, no one will be hurt
03:49:43Mouser_XWhat I don't know, can't make me feel bad (for the most part...)
03:49:52Mouser_XYes, I figured.
03:49:57enthehassuming my boss doesn't see any of the "keep the compatibility" posts and faint
03:50:11entheh(occasionally I share Allegro newbishness with him ^^)
03:50:32entheh(don't get me wrong, Allegro's very good. All communities have newbs in them ^^)
03:50:41Mouser_XThis is true.
03:50:48*Mouser_X must be leaving.
03:50:52*entheh likes Allegro. It has problems, but it's still good
03:50:54enthehok, mata ne
03:50:56enthehme too soon
03:52:16Hotfusiondid you ahve to create a playlist to shuffle or does it rly on your tags. I go to my msuic folder go into a artist folder and play a song but it plays the next song
03:52:32HotfusionI held my button on the Cowons x5l stick
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03:56:55Hotfusioncant even get songs to play now
03:57:05Hotfusionwow I messed this up
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04:01:38Hotfusionhey when you say hold the menu b utton do you mean hold hte joystick while a song is playing
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04:06:51Hotfusionok it seems it does shuffle but not exactly the way I want. If I have one file ina folder it'll shuffle to a different folder and play that song. But If I have a folder that has say 10 songs in it I have to go through all 10 songs for it to shuffle to a different folder
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04:14:59combrainsHotfusion, rb is playlist based so to shuffle all of your tracks you have to add them all to one big playlist and then it will shuffle all tracks
04:15:52Hotfusionok, I'll do that winamp thing you guys had suggested
04:15:57Hotfusionsee if that works
04:17:26HotfusionI do like rockbox alot just trying to figure somethings out. I hated cowon's frimware. Every other time I'd get a white screen when I turn the player on...not with rb
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04:28:23Hotfusioncool I got it working thx combrains and everyone
04:29:49combrainshah - with the new bootloader and all my gb says I only have 3 hrs of play time from a fully recharged battery
04:30:42combrainsI did a bench on the old bootloader and got about 16 hrs out of it - be interesting to see what I get out of this one
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04:45:59perldiverthat can be true
04:46:03perldivereverything works fine here
04:46:05perldiverfor a while
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04:46:37combrainswhat are you reffering to?
04:47:03perldivernew bootloaders, latest builds etc
04:47:58combrainsno, it works fine but it was just interesting for me to find that the gb only estimated 3hrs of runtime from a full battery
04:49:02combrainsim doing another bench atm to see how the new 'opimised' bootloader with CPU scaling performs
04:49:11combrainssee if it gets anymore runtime
04:49:17perldiverin info/rockbox info ?
04:49:43perldiveri have estimated 15 hours 27 minutes there
04:50:09combrainsah, no I just glanced at the wps
04:50:18combrainswill check info now
04:51:06combrainsah - I have 10hrs 20mins now
04:51:15combrainssame on the wps as well
04:51:25combrainsguess I jumped the gun alittle
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04:53:56Hotfusiongb is gigabit?
04:54:59Lloreangb is usually "gigabytes"
04:55:31LloreanBut some people use it for gigabeat as well
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04:59:02Hotfusionyeah I figurd
04:59:10Hotfusionit was pretty obvious right lol
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05:00:10HotfusionI get about 16 or so hours on my iAudio X5L I ran narly 5 hours on it and it still reported 13 hours left
05:00:18Hotfusionnot to bad
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05:00:51LloreanDon't really trust the reports.
05:01:01 Quit entheh ("^~")
05:01:17LloreanThey're at best estimations, and they assume your battery capacity is set properly, and that your battery performs like everyone else's.
05:01:20Hotfusionit's not close to the cowon but it's still decent run time
05:01:34Mouser_XHotfusion: I created a playlist by selecting a directory (with recursive loading on), and inserting it into a new playlist. Then, when the first file was playing, I turned on shuffle, and it worked for me just fine.
05:01:37LloreanYou don't know how long the life is until you've run an actual benchmark.
05:01:41HotfusionI charge it when it's needed
05:01:44Mouser_XI haven't tried any other methods.
05:01:50Hotfusionusually when it's out or about gone
05:02:25Hotfusionhey Mouser I did the winamp tridck replacing K:\mp3\ with /music/
05:02:28Hotfusionand it worked perfect
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05:05:06Mouser_XGlad to help.
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05:15:14Hotfusionlooks like the theme page is offline
05:15:33LloreanHotfusion: The wiki works fine for me.
05:16:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:18:25Hotfusionit worked earlier. Trying to donwload more themes
05:18:31Hotfusionnot workin at the moment
05:18:55Hotfusiontrying to dl'd from thw twiki
05:18:59fathefnerit the a build for the creative zen m
05:19:09fathefneris there
05:19:12fathefnera buils
05:19:42LloreanHotfusion: doesn't work for you?
05:19:53Lloreanfathefner: All supported targets are listed on the front page of the site.
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05:21:16fathefneri saw that and was wondering
05:21:24Hotfusionllorean it does but the pics are x'd out and the dl'd links don't work but I have an IaudioX5 so
05:21:31Hotfusionthat's what im trying to get themes for
05:22:05LloreanHotfusion: Well works fine for me too
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05:22:35Hotfusionlink works but the download links under each theme don't and I can't see the samples for the themes listed
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05:22:47Lloreanfathefner: As I said, supported targets are listed on the front page. The forum threads are just for people to discuss trying to start a port.
05:22:50Hotfusionlemme turn off firewall
05:22:57LloreanHotfusion: I can see the images and everything
05:23:25HotfusionI have no clue then
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05:24:15LloreanAnd downloads work for me too.
05:24:30Hotfusionas I said
05:24:35Hotfusionthey worked earlier for me
05:24:37Hotfusionnot now
05:25:06LloreanAnd refreshing the page doesn't change anything for better or worse?
05:25:43Hotfusionhmm seems server is playing with me
05:26:12LloreanOr your internet connection is just inconsistent.
05:26:20Hotfusionit's just fine
05:26:47LloreanEvidence suggests it might be otherwise if the site's working fine for me.
05:26:59Hotfusionevidence suggests otherwise for me
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05:27:24LloreanWhat evidence? The fact that it works okay except for one webpage doesn't suggest anything except "You have problems accessing that webpage"
05:27:33Hotfusionit's not my connction
05:27:34Kaitlyn2004I go to the "daily builds" page, and nothing shows up?
05:28:10LloreanKaitlyn2004: The server ran out of space earlier, so it's possible that those aren't happening right now.
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05:28:20Kaitlyn2004oh.. lol
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05:28:24Kaitlyn2004i can't seem to download ANY file?
05:28:53LloreanKaitlyn2004: What file won't download for you?
05:29:32LloreanAre you on an archos?
05:29:43Kaitlyn2004nope, x5
05:29:49LloreanThen why are you trying to download that?
05:29:52Hotfusionthat's not needed for an x5
05:29:53Kaitlyn2004and I tried to download the x5 bootloader through the wiki.. that didn't work either
05:29:58Kaitlyn2004what do I need then? lol
05:29:59HotfusionI got an x5 Kaitlyn
05:30:09LloreanHotfusion: See, *now* there's evidence that suggests it's the server.
05:30:13Hotfusionyou need the bootloader
05:30:15Kaitlyn2004Hotfusion: yayy! :)
05:30:23LloreanBut is up
05:30:28LloreanWhich has both the bootloader and the SVN builds
05:30:31Hotfusionand the iAudio zip file
05:30:45LloreanX5 bootloader
05:30:50Hotfusionlol Llorean
05:30:59Kaitlyn2004oh thanks!
05:31:03Kaitlyn2004so i need the firmware too though?
05:31:15Hotfusionthe bootlaoder is the firmware
05:31:25LloreanHotfusion: No, it's not
05:31:28LloreanThe bootloader is the bootloader
05:31:31LloreanAnd the firmware is the firmware. is the firmware.
05:31:37Hotfusionyes but you flash it in the firmwre folder
05:31:48LloreanBut it's not THE firmware.
05:31:54LloreanIt's just a small piece of code that loads the firmware from the disk
05:31:55Kaitlyn2004so why do I need this special boatloader?
05:32:07Hotfusionbut technically that's software
05:32:10LloreanKaitlyn2004: Because it loads the Rockbox firmware.
05:32:21LloreanHotfusion: And on most of the players we support nothing needs to get flashed at all.
05:32:24LloreanBut "Rockbox" is the firmware.
05:32:29Kaitlyn2004i read that the x5 has its own builtin loader?
05:32:59LloreanHotfusion: We have specific terms in this channel, and rockbox.iaudio or the equivalent is considered to be 'the firmware' and we ask that users respect these terms so as to reduce overall confusion.
05:33:12Hotfusionnot sure what you mean Kaitlyn
05:33:16LloreanThe application/OS is the firmware, and the bootloader is the bootloader.
05:33:29LloreanKaitlyn2004: Are you following the install instructions in the manual?
05:34:00Hotfusionit's eay to install
05:34:07Kaitlyn2004im following this:
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05:34:44HotfusionI finally got it to where I like it. Takes a little time but I love the themes and no more white screen
05:34:49Hotfusionaka pos cowon firmware
05:34:54Hotfusionthat really annoyed me
05:35:34Kaitlyn2004Hotfusion: so I put that bootloader into the firmware, let it load, but then how do I actually load the firmware? put it in the root?
05:36:01Mouser_XKaitlyn2004: Ask Llorean. Seriously, he knows very well what he's talking about.
05:36:23Mouser_XI'm not saying Hotfusion can't be helpful, but Llorean knows his stuff.
05:37:25Hotfusionbootloader goes into the firmware folder the other files that is in teh iAudio zip file into root. Plug in the black plug into the player and have it plugged into hte player and turn the player on
05:37:27Hotfusionit was simple
05:37:38Hotfusionthe instructions are more clearer than me
05:38:51Kaitlyn2004i turned it on.. rockbox boot loader turned on
05:38:53Kaitlyn2004then it shut off
05:39:07Mouser_XDid you install the firmware?
05:39:07Hotfusionok take off the black plug in unit
05:39:11Hotfusionturn it on
05:39:11BHSPitMonkeyJdGordon, yo
05:39:31Hotfusionbut yeah you have to install the firmware to :)
05:39:31BHSPitMonkeycan I pm, JdGordon
05:39:39Kaitlyn2004how do I INSTALL the firmware then? lol
05:40:18Hotfusionyou know the file that contains an .rockbox folder and a file those go into root. Ask llorean he knows hehe
05:40:26Kaitlyn2004i did that
05:40:30Mouser_XThis is why the bootloader is differentiated from the firmware.
05:40:31Kaitlyn2004Llorean: what did I do wrong? haha
05:40:52Kaitlyn2004I have a folder - .rockbox, and a file - rockbox.iaudio in my root
05:40:57Mouser_XBootloader loads the firmware.
05:41:11Mouser_XDid you install the bootloader according to the Wiki?
05:41:16LloreanKaitlyn2004: When the Rockbox bootloader shows up, what is the last line it says?
05:41:24Kaitlyn2004results: -1 i THINK
05:41:32Kaitlyn2004thats the line after "loading firmware" i believe
05:41:35Kaitlyn2004it happens quickly
05:41:46LloreanThe -1 line means that rockbox.iaudio was not found in \
05:41:49Mouser_XSounds like the firmware isn't loaded properly.
05:41:54Hotfusionyeah not in root
05:42:04Kaitlyn2004haha weird cause I see it right there! :(
05:43:03Kaitlyn2004its definitely there
05:43:16LloreanKaitlyn2004: Not in *any* folders, just in the root of the device?
05:43:39Hotfusionyou did download the X5 bootlaoder and not the X5V?
05:43:40LloreanAre you sure the number was -1 then?
05:43:43Hotfusionassuming you have just an X5
05:43:57Kaitlyn2004i downloaded from the link provided..
05:44:38LloreanKaitlyn2004: Please answer my question...
05:44:47Kaitlyn2004double checking now
05:46:35Kaitlyn2004rockbox boot loader.... version 2..... batt 3.89v..... loading firmware.....results -1
05:47:06Llorean-1 means the file wasn't found.
05:47:12LloreanThe rockbox.iaudio file.
05:47:38Kaitlyn2004its FULLY there!? :(
05:47:56Kaitlyn2004gonna try daily build
05:48:08LloreanIf it found the file but it was partial, you should get different numbers than -1.
05:49:23LloreanI'm not doubting that it's there.
05:49:28LloreanI'm just saying that for some reason it can't find it.
05:49:37Kaitlyn2004ya... so do you have any ideas?
05:49:52LloreanWell, it's odd that you have a completely nameless file there.
05:49:55LloreanIs everything okay with the disk?
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05:50:33Kaitlyn2004ya i noticed that..
05:50:37Kaitlyn2004I couldn't delete it either
05:50:43Kaitlyn2004I have on occasion turned it on to an HDD error
05:51:01Hotfusionyou should have a rockbox.iAudio file and a .rockbox folder in root
05:51:06Hotfusionit should load it right up
05:51:13Kaitlyn2004Hotfusion: I have that
05:51:20Kaitlyn2004although its iaudio
05:51:22LloreanKaitlyn2004: If the disk is having problems then that could explain things.
05:51:23Kaitlyn2004not iAudio (case)
05:51:25Hotfusiondid you extract the entire thing
05:51:31Kaitlyn2004of course
05:51:37LloreanHotfusion: You're just repeating things that have already been said.
05:51:38Mouser_XHotfusion: If you checked her linked GIF file, you'd see that she has all that.
05:51:40Kaitlyn2004im gonna format the drive
05:51:46Hotfusionso what
05:51:54Kaitlyn2004how should I best format the drive?
05:52:20LloreanKaitlyn2004: I'm not sure how for X5s, if they can be safely formatted at all.
05:52:31Mouser_XLlorean: Is it case sensitive? Might that make a difference? Though, I'm assuming it's currently named correctly, and in the right casing...
05:52:38LloreanMouser_X: Fat32 isn't case sensitive.
05:52:50Mouser_XTrue. I thought Rockbox was though.
05:52:59Mouser_XPerhaps only for certain things...
05:53:05Hotfusionnot sure aht build you did but I did the 1-20-2007 build
05:53:21Mouser_X(I could have sworn I read something about case sensitivity in the manual somewhere...)
05:53:22Kaitlyn2004Hotfusion: know of a safe way to format the drive?
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05:59:18Hotfusionyou could try tod o this plug you player into yoru computer. Make not of the drivfe letter and if your drive letter is drive F type format F: /fs:FAT32 /v:iAudio that's the only way I know through comand line
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05:59:44 Part Llorean
05:59:47HotfusionI have a bad index finger (bent nail) so my typing stinks
06:00:00Kaitlyn2004Hotfusion: the iAudio has a lot of "custom" folders and files though
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06:00:14Hotfusionlemme look at what you'll need to keep
06:02:15HotfusionVOICE, TEXTFILE, SYSTEM, recordings, RECORD, PLAYLIST, PICTURE, MUSIC, MOVIE, FIRMWARE I also have an A and _SYS folder but im not sure what thy are there for, I also have a NED_LIC file
06:02:16Hotfusionthat's it
06:02:47Hotfusioneach of those with hte exception of the NED_LIC system file is a folder
06:03:03Kaitlyn2004okay.. well right now im doing an error check on the disk.. might as well start with that
06:03:19Hotfusionyep. You know how to do command line?
06:03:36Kaitlyn2004start->run->cmd, but i prefer right click, format :)
06:03:57Hotfusioncommand line is safer I think lol
06:04:07Hotfusionwhat drife letter is your player
06:04:35Kaitlyn2004haha i dn't think its safer at all.. larger room for error :)
06:04:41Hotfusionso type in format H: /fs:FAT32 /v:IAUDIO
06:04:53Kaitlyn2004i'll just copy that stuff off... format.. put those back on... then start it up...
06:04:59Hotfusionthe /v is for the label of the disk
06:05:06Hotfusionand /fs stands for filesystem
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06:05:53Hotfusionbetween you and I kait
06:05:59HotfusionI hated cowons firmware
06:06:10HotfusionI kept getting a random white screen when I turned on my player
06:06:18Kaitlyn2004i never got that.. i don't dislike it
06:06:46Hotfusionit was more of an annoyance
06:07:08Kaitlyn2004my main thing is I "upgraded" from a H120 and I liked that more..
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06:08:39Hotfusionthis transformer theme is nice
06:09:04Kaitlyn2004sure. if you're a huge nerdy loser! :)
06:09:19Hotfusionsadly :(
06:10:47Mouser_XI listen to show themes on a regular basis. Inspetor Gadget, Gilligan's Island, Ghostbusters...
06:11:09Hotfusiongo go gadget rockbox
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06:12:55sneakumsah yes, transformers. robots in the skies.
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06:14:00Hotfusionthat's gonna be a great movie coing out later this year
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06:32:28Mouser_XThis was unexpected...
06:32:34Mouser_XI can't access the logs.
06:32:48hcstabula rasa
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06:35:41Hotfusionhmm forbidden to view tiki page error 403
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07:09:14Mouser_XCall me crazy, but seems to be down.
07:10:14hcsyou crazy, but it looks like it
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07:23:29sneakumsit pings, but no http.
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08:08:24Audioengineerrockbox is back up - but no images or SVN builds
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08:23:05midkaywiki isn't working either
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08:40:24AudioengineerI tried a few minuts ago - rb and the wiki were up but with no images or SVN build page
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08:49:01ErifNeergjust wondering but is there a disadvantage w/ using Loader2 rather then rockbox's loader?
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08:50:47ErifNeerghmmm... nobody awake?
08:51:09combrainsjust reading the site and I would say no
08:51:16combrainsbut i dont have an ipod
08:51:39combrainsIf i were you i would be inclined to give it a whirl anywat
08:52:12ErifNeergkk, i didn't see one myself. I just don't always want to use rockbox all the time
08:53:00ErifNeergyea, i works fine as far as i can tell. I've done it before when i had ipodlinux but i really don't see the point cause i don't really need linux
08:53:08ErifNeergjust something that will play ogg
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08:54:22ErifNeergi don't get y more players don't support ogg/flac
08:54:55hcsthe licensing fees of $0 are too expensive
08:55:26combrainsprobably because its not as popular as mp3 so they cant be bothered spending money to caode it in
08:55:45ErifNeergyea, gess... thanks combrains
08:56:29ErifNeergbut isn't aac/mpg4 suppost to replace mp3? argh... i just hate mp3s
08:56:58combrainsaac is apple's own encoder - i thought
08:59:11combrainsits the whole VHS vs BETA thing again - poularity wins out
08:59:58ErifNeergyea, i just find it wierd that Dolby att sony and nokia have all worked on aac
09:00:41ErifNeergzune supports aac
09:00:52ErifNeergbut who has one?
09:01:49sneakumsaac is part of the mpeg4 standard, i believe
09:02:02ErifNeergyea, something like that
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09:03:01ErifNeergaac was designed to replace mp3 fixing alot of the bugs/mistakes in mp3
09:04:09ErifNeergis there any music webpages like emusic that sells ogg/etc music?
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09:07:52tucozanyone know what is wrong with the website?
09:08:07ErifNeergother then images not showing up?
09:08:18tucozwiki is not working for instance
09:08:41ErifNeergserver being worked on?
09:08:52tucozhope it´s not another break-in
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09:09:45tucozi think they worked on the server yesterday, so it is hopefully that.
09:16:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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10:14:39ninj5i use winamp to sync my ipod, rockbox should be able to handle that using database, yes?
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10:15:55BHSPitLappyrockbox generally tries to avoid using databases...
10:16:22ninj5not the generated database
10:16:24ninj5its own one
10:19:58NathanXP2600is anyone else having problems with the site?
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10:23:29ninj5i suppose i just have to wait until someone updates itdb2tc
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10:58:09Mode"#rockbox +o Zagor " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
11:00:49*JdGordon is sick of this damn patch :p
11:02:14Topic"www server hacked and vandalised. investigation underway. backup is available." by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
11:03:39JdGordon:( why the hell do people do that?
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11:07:05NathanXP2600i wondered why the site was dead for a few hours and now is barely there (no images and no files)
11:08:01NathanXP2600in that reguard does anyone feel like DCCing me the 2.5 release or the daily build for the archos 20gb fm recorder?
11:08:13 Join ender` [0] (n=ender@
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11:13:32amiconnNathanXP2600: Just fetch the latest SVN build from
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11:15:56*n1s looks at the topic and wonderes if people don't have anything better to do
11:16:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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11:27:38JdGordonmorning amiconn, apart from fixing 1 tiny thing, I have finished the setting on disk patch.. thought you might like to know :)
11:27:56n1svoice is working?
11:28:30 Join Juice^ [0] (n=juice@
11:28:32JdGordonIt is only the part which handles the saving/loading to disk, menus arent touched, so they will come in after, possibly slowly (I plan to do that part in a way that can transition from the current to the new stuff over time without breaking anything)
11:29:01JdGordonn1s: it _should_ I bassically started the patch again.. testing comes in a min
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11:29:46NathanXP2600amiconn, thank you verrrrrrrrrrry much its been driving me knuts having to use stock firmware since i reformatted it this morning
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11:31:28Genre9mp3WTF? not again... :<
11:31:31JdGordon... the patch doesnt handle vnram settigns at all.. so I dont want to commit it untill someone speaks up about that
11:33:23Genre9mp3Can we restore the wiki to the state it was before?
11:33:58n1stopic sys ther's a backup so I guess so...
11:33:59JdGordonGenre9mp3: sunday morning in sweden... dont expect much back up today I rekon :p
11:34:51Genre9mp3They wiped-out the frontpage, too? do you know?
11:36:03JdGordonyeah, Zagor came in before to chane the topic, and I guess change the frontpage...
11:36:34Genre9mp3argh! :(
11:38:51*JdGordon wishes he didnt say he only had 1 thing to fix in the patch :p
11:38:55JdGordon.. before testing
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11:54:30blubb-kboxguys i got the ata error -1, and i cant find any solutions concerning this problem.
11:54:47n1sinstall what's in the rockbox zip
11:54:50blubb-kboxi looked up misticiriver and the rockbox forums
11:55:11blubb-kboxthe player isnt booting anymore on rockbox
11:55:27blubb-kboxthe original firmware of river says, "check hdd connection"
11:55:35blubb-kboxi checkt the connection and everything was fine
11:55:40n1sblubb-kbox: did you unzip a file called rockbox.something an a folder called .rockbox to the root of your player
11:55:57blubb-kboxrockbox was working fine
11:55:59blubb-kboxfor weeks
11:56:12n1sahh, did you try reseating the drive?
11:56:31blubb-kboxi cant format anymore
11:56:33n1siow disconnect it and reconnect it
11:56:40blubb-kboxyeah, i did
11:56:40n1sinside the player
11:57:03n1ssounds like some sort of hw failure then :-(
11:57:21blubb-kboxthat means that the drive is dead?
11:58:02n1smaybe the hd is dead, maybe someone else knows something else that can cause this?
11:59:27blubb-kboxi dont now. its not my player, i got an h140, and the problem is on the h340 of a friend of mine
11:59:36blubb-kboxhe said,that he wasnt using the player for 3days
11:59:51blubb-kboxlater he tried to start and nothing was working anymore
11:59:54n1sdid he drop it or had previous problems with the drive?
11:59:59Mikachumaybe out of battery?
12:00:30blubb-kboxthere wouldnt be the check hdd connection screen?
12:00:30n1sMikachu: that shouldn't make rockbox bootloader go error -1
12:01:06n1sbut shure it's worth a try
12:02:23blubb-kboxi gonna give it a try
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12:49:30FUzZy2hi, does anyone know where the is some documentation on creating lists?
12:50:05blubb-kboxcreating lists for what?
12:50:27FUzZy2just as a gui i'm just going to use it as a simple menu
12:51:10JdGordonw00t! 1 stupid misplaced break; was all that killed it ;p
12:52:23FUzZy2so does anyone know where some documentation is because there is nothing about it in the plugin_api docs i dld
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12:53:24linuxstb__FUzZy2: You need to look at the rest of the Rockbox source to see how it's used. But there is already a menu widget...
12:53:25JdGordonFUzZy2: there is a menu widget in the plugin api
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12:53:38JdGordonthe list widget is very easy to use also
12:54:01JdGordonboth have ample examples in the various utility plugins (text editor shows both)
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12:54:51*JdGordon needs to upp the ata thread stack :'(
12:55:00JdGordonalthough, this was expected
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12:55:13FUzZy2just i had a quick look over it and i couldnt see exactly how it worked
12:55:53FUzZy2like does it wait and only return something when it is selected or will it return every action
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12:57:18JdGordonFUzZy2: you give the menu an arrray of items to show, then call rb->menu_show() and it will return once the user exits the menu (it will keep running while the user goes in and out of items)
12:57:36JdGordonrb->menu_run will only run untll the user enters an item, or exits the menu
12:57:45*JdGordon might have then switched tho :p
12:57:49JdGordongoing off memory
12:58:45FUzZy2havnt seen menu_run thats not in text editor is it
12:59:16JdGordonproably not... you only need that one if you want some funky menu handling... the default handling should be fine
12:59:33FUzZy2do u mean menu_init?
13:00:19JdGordonno, you need that also
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13:01:39FUzZy2bugger wish they kept there documenation up to date they havnt even got plugin header in it
13:01:57FUzZy2can i find an example of this somewhere?
13:02:19 Join barrywardell [0] (n=barrywar@
13:03:17JdGordonthere is a simple example in apps/plugins/text_editor.c from line 405
13:03:32JdGordonthat uses rb->menu_show(), so it returns when the user selects an option
13:05:20FUzZy2thanx you answered some quistions
13:06:10amiconnmenu_run() is in fact easier than menu_show
13:06:42amiconnmenu_run() only returns when the user leaves it, while menu_show() returns when an item is selected
13:08:29JdGordononly if the items have a function associated with them
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13:21:56muesli__hey you guys seem to be prefered victim for hacks :-(
13:23:49JdGordonWOOOOOT! settings from the hard disk is working 99% :D only have to fix the filename settings and its done
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13:26:46JdGordonis anyone around that wants to talk shop?
13:28:02 Join Juddy [0] (
13:28:37Juddyi just got the toshiba F version of rockbox
13:28:45Juddywhere can i find rockboy?
13:35:21markunJuddy: do you have any gameboy roms?
13:35:50Juddyhello markun
13:35:59Juddynot yet but i know where to get them
13:36:05markunjust click on a rom and it will load rockboy
13:36:19Juddyhey i have seen ure name on my gigabeat forums
13:36:27Juddyoh cool ill load them onto the player then
13:36:44markunYes, it's very likely you saw my name there
13:36:47Juddywhat kinda movies can this thing play?
13:37:07Juddyi tried a 180mb~ xvid of the office and t didnt play
13:37:12markunmpeg, but it's not ready for general use yet
13:37:28Juddyoh kk
13:37:30Juddyany size ok?
13:37:39markunmpeg 1 or 2 with mp1,2 or 3 audio (at 44.1kHz)
13:38:04markunbest results if you scale the image to fit inside the 320x240 screen
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13:38:14Juddyhow do i make on the fly playlists?
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13:39:06markunJuddy: if you hold 'select' (center of the cross) you can add files and directories to the playlist
13:39:36Juddypress create playlist before hand?
13:39:53markunJuddy: when the rockbox website is restored you should read the manual
13:39:55markunhave to go
13:40:11Juddyok cheers
13:40:16Juddythanks mate
13:40:25Juddymite c u on the forums again
13:42:40pixelmathe manual is still downloadable from
13:43:57 Quit muesli__ ("ich will Kühe!!!")
13:45:47Juddythanks mate
13:45:55Juddyill have to look more carefully next tim
13:46:13Juddyim really bad at finding things
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13:51:54JdGordondoes anyone know which setting causes the h300 to lock up when the menu button is pressed? (when set wrongly!)
13:52:27n1sno, does it do it with a regular build?
13:52:46JdGordonno, my hacked build
13:52:54 Quit softi-42 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:53:01n1sshould I test?
13:53:19JdGordonsoon.... trying to get themes loading first.. then it sould eb ready
13:54:11Juddyhey correct me if im wrong but if u update rockbox like it says in the manual u will lose all ure themes u download?
13:54:27Mikachuyou won't
13:54:54Juddybut im copying over the folders with the themes am i not?
13:55:33n1sYes, but it won't delete what's already present on the disk but not in the zip
13:57:53Juddyi thought it replaces whole folders when u do that
14:02:53Bagder still lists the manuals btw
14:03:02Bagderits only without pictures for now
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14:09:47JdGordonn1s: voice still works btw :)
14:10:35n1snice :-)
14:10:51n1snot that i use it but anyway
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14:13:59pixelmaI use voice... and I am very curious... also I'll be able to test the backlight settings... :D
14:14:46 Quit DataGhost (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
14:15:32n1sunofficial builds! :-P
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14:19:26pixelmaJdGordon: how will resume position be saved? (hopefully binary)
14:20:03JdGordonpixelma: atm, everything is going into one config.cfg file
14:20:27JdGordonbut I intend to split it into a system.cfg file also
14:20:40JdGordonand move the system "settings" into a seperate struct
14:21:21pixelmaI really disliked this in your old version
14:21:30linuxstbWhy not something like "status.bin" - which will be in NVRAM on targets which support it. The important difference IMO is that they are not settings, but state variables we want to retain between boots.
14:21:38JdGordonI'm not sure what we want to do about the old rtc config block...
14:22:00 Nick idnar_ is now known as idnar (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
14:22:27JdGordonlinuxstb: yeah, something like that, but I'd rather not have to go back to the bit packing for the block like currently
14:23:03linuxstbI don't think you can avoid it. There's a big difference between state variables and the huge settings struct we currently have.
14:23:35amiconnThe old rtc config block would be replaced by the binary status variables
14:23:45linuxstbBut maybe we don't need bit-packing, just byte-packing.
14:23:56amiconnThere's no need to use the old sophistcated bit table for this
14:24:07amiconnThey're not too many, and the rtc offers 44 bytes
14:24:08JdGordonbyte packing would be nicer... but the archos only have 44 bits spare dont they?
14:24:17amiconn44 _bytes_
14:24:48JdGordonok, well that should be enough then, even if we do it byte packed
14:25:02pixelmathe old version took ages disturbed screen updates, leading to ugly things when running e.g. oscilloscope
14:25:38JdGordonthis version is started from scratch.. so it should be better.. its cleaner anyway
14:26:35amiconnlinuxstb: 7.5MB/s read on coldfire boosted is correct
14:26:42*amiconn improved his ata test plugin
14:27:00Mikachui thought playlist position was saved in .rockbox/.playlist_control
14:27:21amiconnWrite aligned: 6.5MB/s unaligned: 6.3MB/s. Read aligned: 7.6MB/s unaligned: 7.2MB/s
14:27:38pixelmaJdGordon: nice... think I'm going to test
14:28:09JdGordonprob not tonight tho.. I just realised its 12.30am :p but im not tired... so we'll see
14:28:24JdGordonis the lang file extension on the targets .lng or .lang?
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14:36:06amiconnAta read is slower than write on ipod, at least on my mini G2?? :confused:
14:36:28amiconnlinuxstb: around?
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14:41:52linuxstb_amiconn: What speeds are you getting on your mini?
14:42:59linuxstb_For boosted aligned reading, I got around 3.5MB/s on my photo, and around 5.4MB/s on my video. I haven't tested anything else.
14:43:39amiconnIpod mini G2, 30MHz: Write aligned 3.8MB/s unaligned 2.7MB/s. Read aligned: 1.8MB/s unaligned: 1.5MB/s
14:43:49amiconnThat's real file access
14:44:59amiconn75MHz: Write aligned 4.3MB/s unaligned: 4.3MB/s. Read aligned: 2.7MB/s unaligned: 2.4MB/s
14:45:27amiconnThe write speed @ 75MHz looks like it's limited by the microdrive
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14:54:53ywcan rockbox support audio on sansa now?
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14:58:49JdGordonno strstr in rockbox?
15:01:31Mikachuthere's strcasestr
15:01:55JdGordonhmm... close enough I guess...
15:02:10JdGordonJust gotta fix the rgb loading and im done :D
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15:02:37Mikachui have an strstr.c, i must have added it myself :)
15:03:58JdGordonstrcasestr is good enough.. i only need it to check the filename extensions, and its not so bad if we allow .WPS in the .cfg file
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15:08:52*JdGordon wonders if his naming scheme is flawed.... "settings[i].setting.sound_setting.setting" :D
15:09:50JdGordonactually... its not that bad.. the first .setting was a copy/paste mistake
15:10:34DataGhostI knew it
15:10:46DataGhostmy ISP is having a national everything-failure :X
15:11:08DataGhostsince 14:00 approx.
15:13:23*JdGordon is ready to submit a patch :)
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15:23:18JdGordonok, patch online.. fs 6557, please lemme know what you think.
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15:30:34MikachuJdGordon: i'm almost 100% sure that if you use a string more than once in a file, gcc merges them
15:32:54JdGordonMikachu: you talking about the off_on variable at the top of settings_list.c?
15:33:17Mikachuyeah i just noticed they were there before too
15:33:19JdGordonthat was copy/paste from settings.c... saves typeing and c/p errors later
15:35:03Mikachui think using the variables even increases memory usage :)
15:36:15Mikachuyep, just tried it
15:36:43 Quit pixelma (" laters")
15:36:54Mikachuit's just 40 bytes or something though
15:40:23JdGordonas opposed to just typing it every time?
15:40:49Mikachuyeah, typing it explicitly instead of using a static const hi[] uses less
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15:41:46JdGordonmeh, if 40bytes is really that important we can #define it then
15:46:49 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
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15:51:01Juddyhey guys what a good program to use to get movies and shows in a format rockbox will play?
15:58:38SoapOh lordy, in the process of upgrading my build enviroment I've bloated my colinux install to almost 2GB. Does anybody have any idea where the cruft could be hiding?
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16:02:14MikachuSoap: does df -h in linux say 2GB is used too?
16:02:59SoapI assume leaves behind the old cross-compilers?
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16:03:49Soap2GB is livable, as it will work in even FAT32 systems, but I'd like to get it as small as possible.
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16:26:59kirkunithello.. RockBox seems to crash when I try and play a track. It just freezes on the WPS, can anyone help?
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16:30:11n1skirkunit: which player, what kind of file, did it use to work?
16:30:44kirkunitiAudio X5. mp3. Weirdly, it seems to be working ok now
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16:31:01n1sSoap: left behind 500 megs of stuff in the build-rbdev and tmp folders in my home folder that isn't neccesary
16:31:16n1skirkunit: well, that's good then
16:31:23Soapthanks n1s I _just_ found that as you mentioned it.
16:31:49n1skirkunit: if you manage to reproduce it, please report a bug
16:31:54n1sSoap: :-)
16:31:55kirkunitnls: ok
16:32:14 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:33:12kirkunitnls: i have another question, there is already a PLAYLISTS folder on my X5 (from before I installed RockBox), and rockbox creates a dir called 'Playlists'. Is it safe to delete the PLAYLISTS dir?
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16:35:15n1skirkunit: should be, but do you have both?
16:35:27willie``hello, could anybody help me. Im on ipod nano, followed the instruction and the error i got is -4, may i know what it is
16:36:31n1skirkunit: strange, but it should be safe, (I dind't think FAT32 allowed more than one dir with the same name...)
16:37:11n1swillie``: did you install the correct version for your ipod and did you do an eject/safe unmount before disconecting it?
16:37:36willie``yes i did safe unmount b4 dcing it
16:37:54kirkunitbut aren't directories case sensitive?
16:38:08 Quit w1ll14m|away ()
16:38:08n1skirkunit: shouldn't be on fat32 afaik
16:39:23n1swillie``: an -4 error for the ipod bootloader is "Read failed (image)" better ask linuxstb when he's around
16:39:47kirkunitanother problem, when I use Database view mode, when view an album, each track is duplicated 4 or 5 times.
16:40:45willie``do i need to update my original ipod firmware?
16:41:06n1swillie``: I suppose a scandisk or equivalent couldn't hurt, and no need to update the of
16:42:46willie``scandisk ?
16:43:00willie``sorry, new to rockbox
16:43:17n1swillie``: which os are you on (on your computer)?
16:44:01PaulPositionkirkunit - Those duplicated tracks... Is it after initializing the db or more like after a few 'updates' (or auto-updates) ? I find updating sometimes f*** things up and I prefer the slower delete-db-diles -> initialize DB from scratch way...
16:44:33n1swillie``: does your ipod show up as a drive in "my computer"
16:44:53willie``yea, removable drive
16:45:22n1sright click on it and there should be some sort of button do check for errors
16:45:39n1sright click and choos properties, I mean
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16:47:13willie``i guess i'll redo the steps again
16:49:47kirkunitPaulPosition: yes, i suspect it's where I've requested a updates. Seems strange that it should do this though.
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16:49:56PaulPositionwillie - What n1s is suggesting is checking the disc for file-system errors (like having two folders with the same name.. That's *weird* on a fat32 partition)... Right click the drive->properties->tools->Error Checking.
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16:50:33kirkunitPaulPosition: I think i tried to initialize the database again, but it didn't remove the duplicates
16:50:42willie``nope, no error
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16:51:34PaulPositionKirkunit - For all I understand, databse updates work great for songs you added but sometimes not so well with stuff you either deleted, changed and such.. I don't know enough to point out 'where' exactly it "malfunctions"..
16:52:00willie``shld i just download the old one instead of the latest one?
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16:53:27kirkunitAnyone here using an iAudio X5?
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16:56:25PaulPositionWillie: kirkunit - Just as a test.. In .rockbox folder, delete all the database***.tcd files, re-initialize database, reboot the device and see if there's still dupliates. (or did you already try)
16:56:39PaulPositionoops. that wasn't for willie but for kirkunit.. sry.
16:56:58willie``haha :)
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17:00:48kirkunitPaulPosition: thanks... i'll try that.
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17:04:06kirkunitPaulPosition: there aren't any tcd files in .rockbox? unless they're in a sub-directory?
17:04:26willie``guys, its working fine now :D
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17:07:00OgMacielhello... I installed rockbox on a ipod nano 1st gen. last night and created a playlist using the exaile player... but I can't see the playlist when using the iPod... can someone give me a hand please?
17:07:56robin0800whats the exstension?
17:08:38robin0800and have show all enabled
17:09:15OgMacielrobin0800: mostly Oggs...
17:09:48robin0800no the playlist
17:10:59 Quit linuxstb___ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:11:25OgMacielrobin0800: the device says .m3uB
17:12:30 Quit Criamos (Success)
17:12:32robin0800is that suposed tom be 8? at the end
17:13:22spugis there any way to crop a playlist? like, remove all songs except the currently playing
17:13:28OgMacielrobin0800: could very well be
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17:14:24OgMacielrobin0800: I created the playlists using Exaile
17:14:29 Quit Criamos (Client Quit)
17:14:59OgMacielrobin0800: when I turn on the device, I don't see them or at least I don't see the names I gave them
17:15:30OgMacielrobin0800: but I do have music files in them... inside the iPod_controler(?) folder
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17:18:15robin0800I you mean from itunes?
17:19:16OgMacielrobin0800: I don't iTunes... Linux only here... from inside a folder called iPod_Control which must have come with the iPod
17:19:23OgMacieldon't have
17:20:00OgMacielI installed rockbox last night and that added a .rockbox folder and the bootloader
17:20:23OgMacielthe other folder, calendar, contacts, ipod_controler already existed
17:20:27robin0800and that is the path in the play list is it
17:20:59OgMacielrobin0800: no... I cannot see the playlists... this path is where the music files are
17:21:11OgMacielExaile placed them there
17:22:20robin0800where do you think it put the playlist?
17:23:11OgMacielno idea... but how about this... I know where they are now... I'm trying to create a playlist now
17:23:28OgMacielI click the save playlist option
17:23:38OgMacielI get the screen where I can type it
17:23:43OgMacielthe name that is
17:23:52 Join Buffliberty [0] (
17:23:53OgMacielI hit the save button
17:23:56Bufflibertyhi all :)
17:24:13OgMacielnow, this should be in the main menu now?
17:25:23Bufflibertyi'm looking for "rockbox-sansa-in-progress-nosound-dual-boot-19-12-2006" for get DOOM files :) can some1 help me to get it (all links i found in web are deads)
17:26:18robin0800read the annoucement on the forum
17:27:52Bufflibertywhat do i have to check there Oo
17:29:15Bufflibertyanyway the link on rockbox don't work too .. that's why i'm asking to some1 send me if it's possible
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17:29:41robin0800the forums are up
17:30:08Bufflibertyi know
17:31:06BufflibertyOne question: is it possible to put an image on background of the Rockbox menu (sansa rockbox)
17:32:32robin0800the file of the right format goes in the background folder
17:32:50Bufflibertyok thanks
17:33:35Bufflibertywhat about the size ... i mean ???x???
17:33:41preglowhacked again???
17:36:41n1spreglow: yes, it seems so :-(
17:36:48robin0800it depends on the target read the relevent manual
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17:42:16preglowif this turns out to be twiki again...
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17:44:13KCCserver hacked and vandalized?!
17:44:23preglownot the first time
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17:44:32preglowat least they say they have backups this time
17:44:38preglowi hope they're more recent than the last, hehe
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17:46:38KCCthats honestly pathetic
17:46:54KCCwhy hack an opensource firmware project?
17:47:08KCCthere's no political gain to be made..
17:47:54preglowi suspect they just do it for fun too, i'm afraid
17:48:00preglowthey're very seldom politically motivated, afaik
17:48:30preglowalso, there's plenty of script kiddies around who just do it because they can
17:49:39thegeekdamnit!, those closed-source activists just won't quit
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17:51:31KCCis there a major competitor for Rockbox?
17:51:39thegeeknot afaik
17:51:43KCCperhaps it was an attack of jealous desperatrion? :)
17:51:55thegeekipodlinux is the only comparable project
17:52:03KCCor desparation, Im still debating.. lol
17:52:32KCCipodlinux eh.. sounds very limited in its applications
17:52:37thegeekthe ipodlinux people is like 99% noobs/idiots and 1% brilliance
17:52:39KCCRockbox FTW
17:52:53Bufflibertylol :x
17:53:11thegeekand that's a compliment to the devs btw
17:53:22thegeekthe 99% is the majority of the users, not the devs;P
17:53:57KCCim sure the devs are brilliant
17:54:08KCCyou should get them to join the Rockbox project..
17:54:13KCCCLEARLY we're better than them
17:54:20KCCwell not we, since im not included
17:54:26Mouser_XI still don't understand why you'd even want Linux on an iPod...
17:54:36thegeekI tend to agree
17:54:41thegeekbut on the other hand, it is kinda cool;P
17:54:44preglowfor the same reason you'd want rockbox?
17:54:51preglowthat's more of a developer question, not a user question
17:55:12preglowlinux is just a kernel, after all
17:55:27Mouser_XNo, you'd want Rockbox because it allows you to use the full potential of your player. It opens it up for music playback like the OF never did.
17:55:37Mouser_XI don't see how Linux can do that.
17:55:45thegeekofcourse it can
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17:56:03preglowthat depends on the application software
17:56:05preglowlinux us just a kernel
17:56:13preglowit allows everything you want it to
17:56:37Mouser_XI guess I'm not familiar enough with Linux then.
17:56:57goffaMouser_X: think embeded system
17:57:15goffayou can turn your player into any application
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17:57:44goffait's not about punching text into a command line (although that could be an option)
17:58:20Mouser_XWell, looking at it that way, it does sound more appealing than it did.
17:58:57 Quit willie`` (Client Quit)
17:59:14foolshI have a question: Which trunk is better to compile and install rockbox-devel or rockbox,, I guess what im asking are there debug symbols in the dev tree or are they the same after compiling?
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17:59:25KCCSo my poor 'beat hasnt had its build updated for a solid 4 days now
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17:59:32KCClooks like shes gunna have to wait a bit more
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18:00:23preglowKCC: the builds are still up...
18:00:33preglowjust visit the website
18:00:48terinjokesis the SVN recent changes still up?
18:00:55preglowfoolsh: is there even a rockbox-devel anymore? i thought the two were the same now
18:00:58preglowterinjokes: yes
18:01:01preglowjust read the website
18:01:20foolshmaybe there are
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18:01:41terinjokespreglow: i don't see them
18:02:14preglowterinjokes: forget that, i misread, the recent changes aren't up, just the builds
18:02:39terinjokesok... anything major since last weekend?
18:02:40preglowterinjokes: but that page also allows you to view changes, just click the date for each build
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18:04:43foolshI guess i could compile both versions and check the file sizes...i'll do that
18:06:22terinjokesI would like to compile myself, but I'm at a lost
18:06:54terinjokesI'm on gentoo don't know what I need
18:07:25foolshsubversion and gcc are a start
18:07:45preglowall you need is the script
18:07:57preglowand of course a source tree, yes
18:08:21terinjokespreglow: i've used that script before, and it f*ed my computer up
18:08:35preglowterinjokes: i don't see how that's possible
18:08:41preglowit just downloads stuff and compiles them
18:08:45terinjokesmessed up GCC...
18:08:51preglowthen you set some paths wrongly
18:08:58preglowit shouldn't mess up anything unless you told it to
18:09:17terinjokesI didn't set any paths, i just ran the script :D
18:09:22preglowwell, there you go
18:09:23spugpreglow: i've never heard of that script :o can it be downloaded from somewhere without the wiki?
18:09:28preglowbut even doing that, it shouldn't break anything
18:09:39preglowspug: well, you could just svn the source tree, it's in the tools/ directoy
18:09:51spugokay, thanks
18:10:00terinjokeswhat does it compile (i rather do it manually, if at all possible)
18:10:16preglowterinjokes: it compiles binutils and gcc for each platform you want to compile rockbox for
18:10:29preglowit's not hard to do it manually, but all the script does is really just what you'd do
18:10:29 Quit linuxstb__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:10:43preglowyou could just read the script and see what it does, i can't remember the manual steps myself anymore
18:11:18*amiconn now has an asm optimised ata read loop for pp :)
18:11:21terinjokesok, i'll try the script again later
18:11:23linuxstb_terinjokes: The CrossCompiler wiki page has the manual steps as well.
18:11:26preglowamiconn: cool, got any bench numbers?
18:11:34preglowlinuxstb_: wiki's down
18:11:43thegeekamiconn: ooh
18:11:43linuxstb_google's cache isn't though...
18:11:49terinjokeslinuxstb_: if you can give me a full URI i'll pull the cache
18:11:54*linuxstb_ was also writing an ATA optimised read...
18:12:01amiconnSpeedup is not as great as I would like, but still noticeable
18:13:51 Part terinjokes
18:13:57amiconnAligned read is sped up by ~15%, unaligned by ~30%
18:14:10amiconnA bit more at 30MHz, a bit less at 75MHz
18:14:15linuxstb_terinjokes: Just google for Rockbox CrossCompiler
18:15:02preglowamiconn: but that's not too bad at all
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18:19:04linuxstb_amiconn: How are you aligning the memory accesses?
18:19:27amiconnShifting and orr'ing
18:20:22linuxstb_No, I mean what are you aligning to?
18:20:30amiconn32 bit
18:23:41preglowany doxygen wizards here?
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19:09:16Soapthis is slightly OT, but I am about to 7zip the colinux root FS. Any suggestions on settings to tweak to maximize the compression ratio
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19:16:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:24:52*amiconn now also has asm optimised writing for pp :)
19:25:47amiconnSpeedup: aligned +18%, unaligned +65%
19:26:21amiconnShould be more on other pp targets; write speed is now obviously limited by the microdrive
19:30:23linuxstb_I wish you had mentioned earlier you were working on it though...
19:31:05amiconnI only started today
19:31:20amiconnThose copy loops aren't really difficult
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19:36:26*mattzz has probably bricked his Sansa....
19:38:30 Quit My_Sic ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
19:38:44mattzzWhat I did:
19:38:44mattzz - Installed Rockbox (w/o dual boot)
19:38:44mattzz - played around a bit - everything fine
19:38:44DBUGEnqueued KICK mattzz
19:38:44mattzz - switched off, went to recovery mode
19:38:44mattzz - formatted the 16MB drive via windows XP notebook
19:38:44***Alert Mode level 1
19:38:44mattzz - copied the following two files to the 16MB drive:
19:38:46mattzz - >
19:38:48mattzz - >
19:38:50mattzz - ejected drive from XP which led to a
19:38:52mattzz - system reset (said the recovery screen) aaaaand...
19:38:54mattzz - ... all went black :-/
19:39:08mattzzI already contacted Badger to ask him how bad it was.....
19:39:53mattzzNever flash your brand new toy after 01:30 a.m.
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19:46:02mattzzany ideas?
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19:48:45***Alert Mode OFF
19:49:55XavierGrI really don't know anything about the Sansa port
19:50:09XavierGrso the player doesn't respond to anything that you do?
19:50:24XavierGrwhat was the mistake that you did?
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19:50:32mattzzif I knew....
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19:50:53mattzzI guess i flashed the wrong file to the wrong place.
19:50:56XavierGryou should have to wait for Bagder, or Barrywardel (I think)
19:51:09mattzzYup, I already contacted Badger
19:51:21foolshsounds real bad really bad so it does not boot to the recovery mode?
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19:51:43skaterboardhey guys
19:51:52mattzzfoolsh, nope. No recovery mode any more... :-(
19:52:00skaterboarddont suppose anybody could help i think i have bricked my ipod
19:52:12foolshhere we go again
19:52:22mattzzooops there goes another one (billy bragg)
19:52:25skaterboardgets to the rockbox boot loader then dont get any further
19:52:36foolshnot bricked
19:52:39preglowskaterboard: then you haven't bricked it... case solved
19:52:51skaterboardok but in my eyes its broken
19:53:03skaterboardi cant get it from where it is and have looked online
19:53:24skaterboardi need to either get it working or get it back to disc mode to remove it
19:53:37preglowwell, details are needed
19:53:41preglowwhat happens when it tries to boot?
19:54:35skaterboardok 5gen ipod video 80gb and it reboots gets to the bootloader version ipod version and then toshiba mk8010gah and then it locks up
19:54:49preglow80 gig, is it
19:54:49 Quit _Veseliq_ (Remote closed the connection)
19:54:50preglowthen small wonder
19:54:52preglowit's not supported
19:55:02preglow80 gig support is purely experimental and needs a patch
19:55:18skaterboardok so its bricked then
19:55:20preglowi'm pretty sure this is stated somewhere in the wiki
19:55:25preglowskaterboard: no, it's not bricked, just restore it
19:55:32preglowno one has ever bricked an ipod
19:55:40preglowskaterboard: by using the apple restore tool if you have to
19:55:53preglowskaterboard: or by restoring the backup of the bootpartition i'm sure you've made
19:55:55skaterboardyou mean the restore option on itunes?
19:56:15preglowskaterboard: probably, i've never used it
19:56:29skaterboardbut itunes no longer sees the ipod
19:56:45Febsskaterboard: which installation instructions did you follow?
19:56:55skaterboardthe ones on the site in pdf format
19:57:12skaterboardcan i not get the bootloader to select the ipod firmware and the manually remove it
19:57:56FebsOK, putting aside the big note in the first line of those instructions that say, "Rockbox does not run on the 80GB Ipod Video ..."
19:58:08 Join Wiwie [0] (
19:58:09FebsTry running this command from the same place you ran the ipodpatcher initially:
19:58:18Febsipodpatcher N -w bootpartition.bin
19:58:36Febs(where N is the number you found when you ran ipodpatcher −−scan)
19:58:47skaterboardno it cant find it
19:59:04Febs"It" can't find what?
20:00:08FebsLet's step back. What happens when you reset the ipod by pressing and holding Menu and Select simultaneously?
20:00:15foolsh@mattzz if it is bricked can i have your case"> mine got ?scratched?
20:00:15skaterboardthat command cant find the ipod says error opening disc
20:00:53skaterboardwhen i reset it i get the apple logo for a few seconds then it goes back to the bootloader
20:01:08mattzzfoolsh, nice try :-)
20:01:38mattzzfoolsh, did you flash it via BBQ?
20:01:57FebsPut the ipod in disk mode.
20:02:16FebsPress and hold Menu and Select, and then as soon as it reboots, press and hold Select and Play.
20:03:13 Join Hdaackda [0] (n=klj@
20:03:30skaterboardits very terpremental even resetting it
20:03:39Hdaackdahey what the hell happened. why would someone deface rockbox??
20:03:59skaterboardok i got it in disc mode
20:04:14GodEaterHdaackda: because there are dicks in the world that take pride in it
20:04:20FebsAre you connected to USB?
20:04:32Febstry running the command I gave you earlier:
20:04:33n1sHdaackda: We'll make sure to ask them before sending them off to a work camp in siberia :-P
20:04:37Febsipodpatcher N -w bootpartition.bin
20:04:42Hdaackdafuk(*G dicks man.
20:04:43skaterboardalready there
20:05:22GodEatern1s: hahaha - the rockbox gulag has it's door open and waiting ;)
20:05:30Hdaackdaif they wanna deface something deface something government. nota community/social/open source project
20:06:17foolsh@mattzz long story but it still works and i want redesign the case to be more like a gameboy you know for doom and rockboy the problem is the scroll wheel I think a 4-bit bidirection shift register can replace it so i can have scroll up and down buttons i don't like the wheel
20:06:20Hdaackdabtw sorry for asking, any1 here with instructions for runnin linux on 5.5g (30gb) video? (already running rockbox n appleos
20:06:49skaterboardok long pause at the apple logo at the moment
20:07:23skaterboardand were in
20:07:53foolshnot bricked cool beans :)
20:08:20 Join Edwin [0] (
20:08:39 Part Edwin
20:08:45skaterboardso the general concensus is to not run on a 5th gen 80gb
20:08:49 Join fasmaie [0] (
20:09:02FebsIt's not that it's the "consensus." It doesn't work.
20:09:21n1sthe general consensus is to follow th instructions
20:09:52FebsCheck back on the site from time to time, as there has been progress made and the 80GB will someday be supported.
20:11:01Hdaackdaabout the 30gb. how do i install linux while keepin rockbox and apple
20:14:17foolshI don't know how I don't have an ipod I do use gnu/linux
20:14:28Hdaackdaumm #rockbox is friendlier
20:14:50GodEater#rockbox also doesn't provide support for ipodlinux
20:14:56GodEateryou're better off in #ipodlinux
20:15:39 Quit MarcoPolo (Remote closed the connection)
20:15:56 Join w1ll14m [0] (
20:17:02w1ll14mwhy the f*** is rockbox vandalised ????
20:17:11preglowwhy would we know?
20:17:25w1ll14mi don't have a clue ....
20:17:44goffawhat'd they do to it?
20:17:50goffai didn't see
20:18:41Hdaackdaw1ll14m: We'll make sure to ask them before sending them off to a work camp in siberia :-P
20:18:44w1ll14mit's just the idea ... such a wonderfull project like this..... it also opensource etc....
20:18:57Hdaackda- Quote by n1s
20:19:02w1ll14mhdaackda: If you don't I will ;0p
20:19:25Hdaackdasome sad dicks..
20:20:50 Quit Hdaackda ("Bye")
20:21:04w1ll14mmaybe it is something from apple or so.... would they be low enough to do this???
20:21:39w1ll14mthey just gave some ca$h to some junk or so to hack rockbox ???
20:21:54GodEater*extremely* unlikey
20:22:09w1ll14mi thought so....
20:22:42n1sif apple wanted to shut down rockbox, they would send lawyers, not hackers
20:22:55w1ll14mn1s: that's true .....
20:23:35GodEatersince if the hack was ever traced back to them - they'd be in a whole lot of trouble
20:23:44GodEaterit would be a PR and legal nightmare for them
20:23:55GodEaterI doubt they care at all about rockbox
20:24:44w1ll14mgodeater: that sounds true..... but what was exactly hacked ?
20:24:53GodEaterno idea - I didn't see it
20:25:19GodEaterIt's far more likely it was some bored script kiddie somewhere looking for peer validation
20:25:31GodEaterwho now thinks he's "l33t"
20:25:37w1ll14mpeer validation ?
20:25:46GodEaterrespect from his friends
20:25:51w1ll14mGodEater: just a sad person instead of 1337
20:26:01GodEaterI did say "thinks"
20:26:04GodEaterI didn't say it was true
20:26:11w1ll14mhehehe true ;)
20:26:58kirkunitbut why target RockBox? idiots
20:26:59w1ll14mthey realy have to set up a work camp for noobz like this..... and let them code for opensource ;) that should learn them ....
20:27:23GodEaterwell I also doubt that whoever did it actually wrote the code to do it themselves
20:27:39 Join PLsCold [0] (
20:28:12w1ll14mGodEater: indeed a small chance....
20:28:22kirkunitanyone use RockBox on an iAudio X5?
20:28:38 Quit amiconn (" HydraIRC -> <- Leading Edge IRC")
20:28:50PLsColdhow can i put personnal backgrounp for Rockbox menu on a sansaE200 ?
20:29:50CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
20:29:50*GodEater downloads...
20:31:06kirkunitis it possible to invert menu and filelist displays? ie. white text on a black background.
20:31:15n1sPLsCold: make a 220x176x25 bmp and put it in ./rockbox/backdrops, then go to that folder in rockbox and bring up the context menu on the file and select "set as backdrop" (or whatever it's called)
20:31:17 Quit jaebird ("Leaving")
20:31:24*w1ll14m is pissed off about the news he just heard about rockbox and immediatly got him self a glass of beer
20:31:30 Join jaebird [0] (
20:31:52n1skirkunit: you can set whatever foreground and backgound colors you like
20:32:14PLsColdthanks i'm going to try it
20:33:22n1sPLsCold: oh and it's in the manual try looking there next time you wonder something :-)
20:33:53PLsColdok :) i was looking in forum :D
20:35:16*GodEater high fives DataGhost and awards him iPL's "Hero of the Month" medal
20:35:23GodEaternice work!
20:35:40DataGhosttonight I'll make it compatible with older/other iPods again :P
20:35:41GodEaterI assume you got your odd/even sector routines working then :)
20:35:49DataGhostactually, it was quite stupid
20:35:50GodEateryou da man
20:35:53GodEateryes ?
20:35:58DataGhostI wasn't that deep into the code etc
20:36:04DataGhosthaven't coded a lot in C
20:36:15DataGhostand I especially looked over all differences beween uint8 and uint16
20:36:26DataGhostso basically I was trying to read the odd sector after the buffer
20:36:32DataGhostI did +512, should have done +256 :P
20:36:56GodEaterwell done for cracking that one
20:37:03GodEaterTempel walks in your shadow now :)
20:37:04DataGhostyeah, thanks :)
20:37:16 Quit relaxed ("mplayer -cache 512 -playlist")
20:37:37DataGhostActually, I think I'm just going to need to read up on pointers, some memory allocations and then it'll all be a lot easier :)
20:37:41 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (n=thunderc@
20:37:59*GodEater goes for celebratory food
20:38:15DataGhostthe loader can also detect and boot rockbox
20:38:22 Quit Juddy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:38:22DataGhostbut I still have the unpatched version so it's not of much use
20:38:35bagawkwait wait, that talk was what i thought it was right?
20:39:08DataGhostI can't read minds so I'm not 100% sure
20:39:20bagawkyou can read from the iPod 80gb disk?
20:39:27 Join bluebrother [0] (i=TSpmRfGd@rockbox/staff/bluebrother)
20:39:36 Quit w1ll14m (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:39:41*bagawk does a little happy dance
20:40:03 Quit Kitt0s (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:40:07DataGhostthe bootloader can also read ext3 and fat32 just fine
20:40:16DataGhostiPL still can't read fat32, so that's going to need some fixing
20:40:16bluebrotherwhat happend? 5.5G up and running?
20:40:30DataGhostbasically, yes
20:40:38bluebrothernice :)
20:40:51DataGhostI don't know if iPL can read HFS+ partitions off the 80GB... if it can then work is done for the 80GB macpods
20:40:59GodEaterthe iPL kernel still doesn't read the fat32 yet though right ?
20:41:17DataGhostthat's the next issue, which is going to be a *little* bit more complex :)
20:41:23GodEateryeah =/
20:41:30GodEaterthat fat32 code looks like a nightmare to me
20:41:48GodEaterheh - which is basically the problem LinusN faces with the rockbox kernel
20:42:03 Nick mattzz is now known as mattzz_away (
20:42:03DBUGEnqueued KICK mattzz_away
20:42:04DataGhostWell, the short time I've been looking through it, I couldn't really find any actual fat32 read-a-file code
20:42:18GodEaterthat's also an uss
20:42:22DataGhostanyway, the loader understands it, which is nice
20:42:31GodEaterit's tough finding your wya through the linux kernel
20:42:33GodEaterit's a large beast
20:42:36DataGhostI don't have to use ipodpatcher all the time :)
20:42:57 Quit XavierGr ()
20:43:37GodEaterthat's very useful
20:43:59DataGhostand basically I'll just have to revert the entire SECTOR_SIZE I set, especially if it needs to work on older iPods
20:44:10DataGhostI've come up with ways of detecting which method needs to be used, though
20:44:18DataGhostread sector 1 (odd) and see if it errors :P
20:44:28GodEaterhehehe - simple but effective
20:44:33 Join Kitt0s [0] (
20:44:39GodEaterheck - even read one sector
20:44:47GodEaterwe know it b0rks on that too
20:46:05DataGhostand with the loader I finally found a use for static variables :)
20:46:10DataGhostand useful they will be
20:46:39 Join relaxed [0] (n=relaxed@unaffiliated/relaxed)
20:47:08GodEateryou've also got the docs to write about this too of course
20:47:22GodEaterif you don't want to be pestered into an early grave in #iplodlinux
20:49:44 Join Manticore-2 [0] (
20:50:14PLsColdn1s: Sorry to ask you again :) but where i find this option "set as backdrop" ??
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20:52:20 Part skaterboard
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20:54:58 Quit Sikkan ("( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )")
20:55:35khalsaHello, was just wondering how to increase the playlist limit (above whats in the options) for ipod Nano
20:55:45khalsa(above 22k)
20:57:05 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
20:57:17 Join |Rincewind| [0] (
20:57:59GodEaterlinuxstb: you seen that DataGhost has fixed Loader2 on the 80GB ?
20:58:25DataGhostI think he did :)
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21:02:13 Join _Veseliq_ [0] (n=veseliq@
21:03:03robin0800_how to install COP patch on svn daily build
21:03:25PLsColdnice question
21:04:24GodEaterrobin0800 - you can't install a patch on a build
21:04:33GodEateryou have to patch the *source* and build it yourself
21:04:46 Quit Manticore-2 (Remote closed the connection)
21:04:55robin0800_I Know Compile then
21:05:15GodEaterwell do you know how to compile your own
21:05:36 Join Ghoulunat [0] (
21:05:39 Join echo [0] (
21:05:40robin0800_can do normal patches
21:05:55GodEaterhow is the COP patch abnormal ?
21:07:03robin0800_Tracker page Dosen't have patches but .bin and some diff's
21:07:03 Join Zagor [0] (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
21:07:32 Quit echo (Client Quit)
21:07:41GodEatera diff *is* a patch
21:08:00 Join echo1001 [0] (
21:08:08robin0800_what do you do with the bin
21:08:10ZagorGood news: We weren't hacked. It was a runaway cronjob that did the damage.
21:08:21Mode"#rockbox +o Zagor " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
21:08:21linuxstb_You hacked yourself?
21:08:33Zagorlinuxstb_: yeah, something like that
21:08:45linuxstb_Is the damage repairable?
21:08:56Topic"www server wiped. restoe from backup pending." by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
21:08:57 Join Sikkan [0] (i=Monchhic@
21:09:10Zagorlinuxstb_: yes. the backups should be in good shape.
21:09:12CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
21:09:12*GodEater wonders what the cronjob was *supposed* to do
21:09:22khalsayeah for reals
21:09:57preglowZagor: what the hell kind of a cronjob was that? the yearly rm -rf / ?
21:09:59 Join D0ug [0] (
21:10:03D0ugWhat freak did this?
21:10:22idnardid what?
21:10:25ZagorGodEater: spot the bug: (cd rockbox_html/cvs-bak; find . -ctime +7 -exec rm {} ;)
21:10:36D0ugVandalize the site?
21:10:44preglowD0ug: the code snippet above did
21:10:51GodEaterhehehe - oops ;)
21:10:53ZagorD0ug: false alarm, it was not a hack this time
21:10:56preglowZagor: i'm afraid i don't speak find
21:11:00robin0800_Do you need the .bin file
21:11:08D0ugDid it crash or something?
21:11:10linuxstb_robin0800_: You just need this patch (linked from the tracker page) -
21:12:06GodEaterthat was supposed to remove files older than 7 days (he guesses)
21:12:15GodEaterI need to remind myself what ctime is for
21:12:21D0ugkk, sorry I realize you just answered that qn... I am feeling a bit dense today
21:13:00ZagorGodEater: well, it did. the problem is the ; character. it doesn't abort when the previous command fails. and the cd failed because the cvs-bak directory no longer exists...
21:13:00D0ugAny irreperable damage?
21:13:10GodEaterah yes
21:13:13preglowZagor: ahhaha
21:13:14GodEaterit should have been &&
21:13:16preglow&& is your friend
21:13:40*GodEater hasn't used ";" in a script for years
21:13:49 Quit fasmaie ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
21:14:39GodEaterhowever, I didn't realise the cvs-bak directory didn't exist - not having access to the server. I should have guessed though really following the svn change
21:14:53ZagorD0ug: hopefully there is very little data lost. if I recall correctly, the backup ran just a few hours before the wipeout.
21:15:14D0ugIs there any plans on forming a small HTML viewer for Rockbox?
21:15:26 Join Anendram [0] (
21:15:30idnarport firefox to rockbox ;)
21:15:34D0ugJust so you can view a web page rather than just the code
21:15:59GodEaterD0ug: absolutely not - HTML on the web is a nightmare to parse
21:16:13GodEaterfar to complex a job for the limited resources available on a rockbox target
21:16:18ZagorD0ug: get in line:
21:16:38PLsColdwhere can i get Tetris for rockbox ? :p
21:16:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:16:54Topic"www server wiped. restore from backup pending." by Zagor (n=bjst@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
21:16:54D0ugTry a gameboy game
21:16:55khalsawhynot install SVN:Web ?
21:16:58linuxstb_You can't get Tetris (TM), but you can get Rockblox.
21:17:00*GodEater is surprised that's not been closed with the "hahahahaha. No." reason.
21:17:18Zagorkhalsa: instead of viewvc?
21:17:20D0ugcool, Zagor
21:17:34PLsColdso basic game from Gameboy work for Roxkbox ? without modification Oo ?
21:17:41khalsaor viewvc, same thing at the end of the day
21:17:50Zagorkhalsa: see
21:17:52AnendramSpeaking of gameboy games, is Rockboy ever going to get to the iRiver H10?
21:17:59D0ugWell, I'm out of here, thank you though for the info
21:18:14khalsaZagor, ah. I was just pointing out for D0ug
21:18:14D0uglol, Rockboy is on the Sansa e200 already :)
21:18:23 Quit BHSPitLappy (Connection timed out)
21:18:24Zagorkhalsa: aha
21:18:26GodEaterAnendram: sure. as soon as someone starts working on it
21:18:37 Quit D0ug ("Leaving")
21:18:40PLsColdD0ug rockboy or box ?
21:18:58khalsaZagor, I thought he meant for the SVN for some reason 0.o
21:19:26AnendramRockboy. I have Rockbox on mine already. Wish I could help with it. But I know nothing about programming/coding/whatever
21:19:40 Quit Anendram (Client Quit)
21:20:08GodEaterand no desire to learn either it seems
21:20:12DataGhostby the way GodEater, can you tell me where you got that loader2 you were talking about? (with slightly different code iirc)
21:20:16DataGhostso I can diff it with the svn one
21:20:21 Quit PaulJam (".")
21:20:26DataGhostand see if I need to adjust anything
21:20:33GodEatertempel's site
21:20:41GodEateryou'd have to ask DerPapst for the link
21:20:47GodEaterI don't recall it
21:21:00GodEaterthough I think it's linked from the 5.5G post Tempel made on the iPL wiki
21:21:11DataGhosthm ok I'll have a look in a bit
21:21:40 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (
21:22:08GodEaterthat was it
21:22:31GodEaterheh - think you need to update this page too - >
21:22:38GodEaterwith your avi perhaps
21:22:58 Quit Alonea ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
21:23:06PLsColdlinuxstb_: re
21:23:10 Join Hotfusion [0] (
21:23:25PLsColdi found rockblox.c that it ?
21:24:06GodEaterDataGhost: are you submitting your Loader2 to the iPL svn anytime soon ?
21:24:29linuxstb_PLsCold: Yes. It's included in every build.
21:24:41DataGhostwell maybe I can fix the code today and test it on my 20GB 4G
21:24:55DataGhostand I'm not sure how that SVN submitting works etc
21:25:03DataGhostand whether or not it needs more testing on other iPods before submitting
21:25:24DataGhostand reviewing, probably
21:25:31robin0800_thanks linuxstb for the link
21:25:40GodEaterprobably all of the above
21:25:53GodEaterare there any other iPL devs who're active to *do* any reviewing ?
21:26:02GodEaterI've not heard a peep out of them for ages
21:26:23DataGhostwell if there aren't any devs around I guess another person who knows how to code could review it :)
21:26:32GodEaterI'm sure you could find victi^H^H^H^Holunteers aplenty to test it in the rockbox forums though
21:26:40 Join Mouser_X3 [0] (
21:26:46DataGhostoh yes I could have loads of people to TEST
21:26:57DataGhostthe problem is, they all have 80GB iPods, so there's nothing new there :)
21:27:14DataGhostoh by the way, I can restore my iPod as macpod from OSX, right?
21:27:23GodEaterI would imagine so
21:27:26DataGhosthm hm
21:27:34*DataGhost smashes his laptop a couple of times and fires up vmware
21:27:36GodEaterI don't own anything with OSX on it though
21:27:42 Part echo1001
21:27:45DataGhosti have a core duo laptop :)
21:27:47*GodEater looks in linuxstb's direction
21:27:56GodEaterwoooo - aren't you lucky then ? :)
21:28:04DataGhostsponsored by the university :P
21:28:07DataGhostwell, half
21:28:32DataGhostnice. it's booting QNX
21:28:38DataGhostnow where did I leave that osx iso
21:28:42GodEateryou have QNX on it too ?!?!?!
21:28:45DataGhostin vmware
21:28:51idnarnot core 2 duo?
21:28:51DataGhostI threw off osx.. heh
21:28:56DataGhostno, just core duo
21:29:08DataGhostI'm getting another 160GB disk in a couple of days, by the way
21:29:16DataGhostthe 100GB I have now is.. um.... well, full
21:29:18GodEaterfor ?
21:29:24DataGhostfor my laptop :P
21:29:42DataGhostand 2x500 for my workstation because I've got a terabyte in here.. which is also full
21:29:56GodEatertoo much porn obviously ;)
21:29:58linuxstb_Install zagor's cronjob...
21:30:00HotfusionI'd like to get hitadhi's new 1 TB HDD
21:30:02Hotfusionfor $399
21:30:03DataGhosthaha linuxstb
21:30:06GodEaterlinuxstb hahahaha
21:30:33DataGhostHotfusion I'd get 2x500...
21:31:13DataGhostfor ~280 euros.. instead of 399
21:31:33DataGhostI could even buy 3x500 then, heh
21:33:12thegeek1tb of data on one hd is scary
21:33:16thegeekwhat if it fails?
21:33:42DataGhostI think you said the exact same thing a couple of years ago, about a 1GB harddrive :)
21:33:43GodEateryou curse very loudly indeed ?
21:33:54n1syou go and get the backup
21:34:00DataGhostand well.. what if it fails, then we have raid5 or a backup :P
21:35:59Hotfusionim still looking for that battery I can replace in my mp3 player if it goes out someday
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21:41:25 Quit BHSPitLappy (Success)
21:41:52PLsColdhi again, how to put a windows font for rockblox ?
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21:49:33 Quit Genre9mp3 ("I don't suffer from Rockbox psychosis. I enjoy every minute of it.")
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21:51:12SethXxXre all
21:51:23SethXxXhows the weekend going?
21:51:58SethXxXsorry to see that the webserver is down, i hope you folks fix it... disaster recovery is always a pain in theass
21:53:42SethXxXanyhow, i have a question for those with an ipod... is the cradle functionality retained, with rockbox? ie if i place my ipod on one of those "multimedia cradles" with speakers, will i be able to use the buttons on the cradle? and will the audio output work?
21:55:13LloreanNo, and Yes.
21:55:26LloreanButtons won't work because those require communications.
21:55:36LloreanBut the audio out is usually by way of the line out, which is functionaly
21:55:42LloreanHm, "functional"
21:56:16 Quit foolsh (Remote closed the connection)
21:57:35 Join Zagor [0] (
21:57:51GodEaterI think I'm going to have to stop answering posts in the Apple install forum
21:58:57SethXxXLlorean: hm.
21:58:59n1sare they getting upset? ;-) I don't dare to go in there ...
21:59:22SethXxXso i'm assuming that the audio routing is hardware, and the buttons are software and there is no driver for them, correct?
22:00:12GodEaterit just seems to have the lowest average intelligence per post of any of the other fourms
22:00:27GodEateryou go in there and the IQ level plummets like a thermometer in a blizzard
22:00:37DataGhosthaha GodEater
22:00:48SethXxXGodEater: try out the microsoft install forums.
22:00:56SethXxXor the linux ones, even better.
22:01:02DataGhostI just helped someone on IRC with the iPL installer... he couldn't get it to work because he didn't read the wiki
22:01:07GodEaterI meant on the rockbox site SethXxX
22:01:13DataGhostafter he did he managed to crash it
22:01:18SethXxXah, sorry :)
22:01:19DataGhostand now he gave up
22:02:13GodEaterI'd have so much more patience with them if they could demonstrate that they at least *tried* to follow the manual. But they all just want spoon feeding.
22:03:01LloreanGodEater: Honestly what drives me nuts is that as soon as you answer one question, they stop thinking at all.
22:03:22LloreanThey'll get to a point, need help, and then once you give them help, instead of going back to reading, they want step by step instructions.
22:03:29SethXxXspeaking of manual
22:03:56GodEaterLlorean: yep - I'm just going to give up now before I roast someone so bad they end up glowing in the dark.
22:04:01SethXxXdo i need to clean format my ipod as a fat volume when i unzip the rockbox stuff on there?
22:04:20n1s"But the manual is so BIG!!" "But the manual doesn't cover this" "But the manual doesn't have enough examples!" :-P
22:04:39LloreanSethXxX: Is your iPod in possession of a primary Fat32 partition?
22:04:47SethXxXits a winpod, so yes
22:04:56LloreanThen you don't need to do anything special for it.
22:04:57GodEatern1s: I don't believe I've heard anyone say the manual doesn't cover something. They complain it's too hard to understand - but never suggest improvements.
22:04:59LloreanJust follow the instructions.
22:05:05 Quit PLsCold ("( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )")
22:05:09SethXxXjust askin :)
22:05:11LloreanGodEater: Every now and then the manual doesn't cover something.
22:05:22GodEaterI must have missed those then ;)
22:05:30LloreanGodEater: You'll hear it when someone says "Please read the manual" and someone else is just overjoyed to call the person on the fact that the manual doesn't actually have it.
22:05:53n1sGodEater: aah, I might have thought of one of the times they just don't care to search and claim it's not in
22:05:57*GodEater 's hide appears intact from those.
22:06:30FebsSomeone made a suggestion for the manual the other day, actually.
22:06:38Febs"User more screen shots."
22:06:38GodEaterI would imagine in *most* of those cases we have the good grace to admit we screwed up.
22:06:51*n1s often gives them direct links, caus it's fater then telling them how to find what thyr'e looking for
22:07:02FebsI am still trying to figure how screen shots of DOS commands is useful.
22:07:26n1sFebs: good question
22:07:41LloreanGodEater: Usually yes, there's a "Sorry, it's in the manual now" in response to "But it's not there!"
22:07:44GodEaterFebs: you'd need to mspaint them with little circles round the relevant bits. Like "This is the number ipodpatcher returns when you do −−scan. In case you can't work it out on your own"
22:08:26GodEaterI really hope rbutil sends these posters into decline
22:08:41Zagorscreenshots also makes people type "C:\>" into their command prompts
22:08:49GodEatersadly very true
22:09:10LloreanAll those people who type C:\Rockbox\ipodpatcher −−scan rather than CDing.
22:09:18SethXxXwhy dont you put a "JUST RTFM!" header on each page of the manual pdf?
22:09:26*GodEater wonders if we could get away with distributing a .reg file that unsets PROMPT
22:09:36DataGhostGodEater I think they want you to write some sort of installer that installs iPL/rockbox automatically on their iPod/mp3player whenever they think about doing that
22:09:36LloreanSethXxX: Because they wouldn't see that until they're already reading the manual?
22:09:51GodEaterDataGhost: someone's working on that
22:09:52SethXxXhm. the chicken -egg paradox
22:09:55GodEaterit's just not finished yet
22:10:21GodEaterI think the dev is busy sursing MS on their code for autodetecting devices
22:10:32GodEaterlast time I saw her in here anyway
22:10:34DataGhostprobably the hardest part will be to actually make clear what the user still needs to do
22:10:39GodEatershe may have got beyond that
22:10:56DataGhost'help, my iPod scren is showing "please attach this iPod to a computer with internet access to install iPL"!!1 what do I need to do! help!'
22:11:07GodEaterwell I'm hoping it'll be as simple as "plug in your device" and "click the "install rockbox" button
22:11:39DataGhostwell I actually meant an installer which doesn't involve surfing to any site, reading any manual at all, etc. :P
22:12:00GodEaterare you hoping it'll magically appear on their harddrive too ?
22:12:13DataGhostthat would be great
22:12:24DataGhostbut really, an 'install rockbox' button is too hard already
22:12:35DataGhostor it's just my presence
22:12:51GodEateryou may be right actually
22:12:52DataGhostwhenever I am standing near someone who is not a computer guru
22:13:05DataGhostthey even ask me what they should do next when they get a dialog with 1 button 'OK'
22:13:13GodEaterit *should* be as simple as run the installer, and plugin your device.
22:13:21GodEateror vice versa
22:14:28GodEatermaybe it should get turned into an agent as well
22:14:33GodEaterthat runs permanently on the host PC
22:14:36DataGhostanyway, my opinion is still that when you cannot read 1 wiki page, describing how to use an automated installer and _EVERY_ error it *may* give... you don't deserve to have an alternate firmware
22:14:43 Part Llorean
22:14:53GodEaterand automatically upgrades rockbox whenever there is both an internet connection and the device is plugged in
22:15:20DataGhostpeople will delete that and they will complain
22:15:29DataGhostsomeone asked for my help once, while he was 'cleaning up' his pc
22:15:35DataGhost'hey, can I delete this?'
22:15:44DataGhostI didn't know what it was either, so I decided to look it up
22:15:49DataGhostno internet connection
22:15:50GodEaterwe install it into winnt\system32
22:15:55GodEaterrun it as a service
22:15:55DataGhostI did ipconfig... no interfaces
22:16:02DataGhost'what did you say you deleted?'
22:16:09*GodEater waits for the punchline
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22:16:22DataGhostwell, the motherboard drivers were gone for some reason
22:16:33GodEateroh good god
22:16:43DataGhostonboard network, sound.. etc
22:16:58GodEaterit's getting the stage where windows shouldn't be installed into an easily accessible partition any more
22:17:10GodEaterso the user can't even see it to delete it
22:17:13DataGhostwell I think it just had an uninstaller :(
22:17:25DataGhost'whats "via 4-in-1"??? ah well..' [delete]
22:17:33DataGhostor whatever it was
22:18:28*GodEater compares it to someone trying to "clear space" under the bonnet of a car. "These shiny things don't look like they need to be there." *yank*. Mechanic later "where the hell are the spark plugs?
22:18:49 Quit _Veseliq_ (Remote closed the connection)
22:19:16DataGhostyou know, maybe that's even why cars nowadays have some protective shield over the engine
22:19:25DataGhostso you can only refill the necessary fluids
22:19:49GodEaterit's what I just don't understand. I know damn well not to fiddle with my cars engine. I haven't got a clue what I'm doing there. Yet people who know they know stuff all about computers / electronics seem to insist on fiddling with the stuff they know nothing about.
22:20:05GodEateryeah - but windows has that "protective cover" now
22:20:19DataGhostmeh.. not really imo
22:20:26DataGhoston XP it's a lousy 1-click-begone solution
22:20:32GodEaterwhen you try and browse c:\ , or c:\windows it tells you "These are system files - are you SURE you want to see them
22:20:36FebsWhen I first started dating my wife, her car was acting up, so I said, "when was the last time you had the oil changed?"
22:20:40DataGhostand in vista it's probably the same, when you have the administrator password
22:20:42FebsHer response was, "what's an oil change."
22:20:46*Soap wanders into #TechSupportVent
22:20:50DataGhostlol Febs
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22:21:04SethXxXhm, i just plugged the rockbox ipod to the usb key, and it rebooted and went into disk mode... is this normal?
22:21:14GodEaterDataGhost but that's the same as the engine cover in a car. once it's off - it's off!
22:21:18DataGhostit's always funny to throw away an engine with the pistons jammed
22:21:22FebsWe have to remember that some of our users have about that level of sophistication with computers.
22:21:27DataGhostyeah ok GodEater
22:21:31GodEaterSethXxX - yes it is
22:21:48GodEaterif you want it to just charge, hold down menu while you plug it in.
22:22:33GodEaterFebs: that's the level of sophistication I have with my car. It's why I pay a mechanic to look after it for me - and why I don't open the bonnet ever.
22:23:26DataGhostWell, with cars I know my way around a bit.. but I don't touch stuff I know nothing about, at least not before I rtfm
22:24:48GodEaterI know nothing at all, and that's the way I like it. If I want a my car to do "something different" from what it was designed, I'm sure as hell not going to try and turn it into a off-roader on my own. I'll just buy another car.
22:25:34DataGhostI did notice people getting more cautious, though
22:25:41DataGhostsince I started to charge them per hour
22:27:00 Quit thegeek ()
22:28:55 Quit MarcoPolo (Remote closed the connection)
22:29:21DataGhostanyway.. I'm going to get some more food just before coding time starts :)
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22:32:18*GodEater bids on an F40 gigabeat
22:32:57 Quit GodEater ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby")
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22:36:37 Part Genre9mp3
22:36:46SethXxXsilly question
22:36:54 Join Genre9mp3 [0] (n=yngwiejo@
22:36:58SethXxXcan i start the original apple firmware using rolo ?
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22:38:47dionoeaSethXxX: i don't think so
22:39:02SethXxXis there any way to set up dual boot?
22:41:19dionoeayou have to press a special key during boot
22:41:24dionoeai don't remember which one it is
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22:42:03 Quit Wiwie ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
22:42:05SethXxXmenu play i guess
22:42:50SethXxXeven not
22:43:16SethXxXwell anyhow, the rockbox firmware has replaced the original firmware, so i dont see a way how pressing a button can get overwritten data back
22:44:06DataGhostwith the iPodLinux loader you can have dualboot with rockbox :o
22:44:11DataGhostI'm guessing 'rolo' can do the same?
22:44:17DataGhost(never used it, sorry)
22:44:22SethXxXthats what i was asking before :)
22:44:25DataGhostit's not overwritten but just realigned
22:44:41DataGhostif I'm right :P
22:44:50SethXxXill need to stfu and dig into the technicalities then
22:44:54DataGhostwait, lol.
22:45:02DataGhostrockbox is loaded from a file on your music partition
22:45:09DataGhostthe 'overwritten' stuff is just a bootloader
22:45:14DataGhosthardly your entire firmware
22:45:36DataGhostit'll probably be in the manual
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22:45:38SethXxXi just came from ipodlinux
22:45:44SethXxXand i had a crash every time
22:45:52DataGhostthat boots from another partition aswell :P
22:45:55SethXxXand 4 hours of sleep
22:46:05SethXxXso i was rather pissed off at it
22:46:32DataGhostwell, what I do know for sure is that the new loader2 will boot appleos, linux and rockbox just fine, with a nice menu at boottime
22:46:55DataGhostand I'm going to continue working on it right now
22:48:01SethXxXgood boy :)
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22:48:52SoapDataGhost: the rockbox loader will boot all those too.
22:49:08DataGhostah well then, you need to rtfm indeed SethXxX :)
22:49:13SoapSethXxX: reboot, as soon as the screen turns on put the hold switch in the on (red) position.
22:49:20 Quit BHSPitMonkey (Remote closed the connection)
22:49:34 Quit subson ()
22:49:40Soapyou'll see the text message "loading original firmware" - and you can turn the hold switch off at that time.
22:49:50 Join amiconn [0] (
22:51:04enthehguys, when you compile for Rockbox, what size are the various C data types? how many bits is int etc.?
22:51:09entheh*compile Rockbox
22:51:28SethXxXthx soap
22:51:38amiconnentheh: Don't rely on type sizes
22:51:48amiconn(of standard C types that is)
22:52:08amiconnThe only type that is guaranteed to be fixed size is char
22:52:09enthehat the moment, DUMB assumes int is 32 bits
22:52:22entheham I going to have to use int32_t?
22:52:31amiconnint can be 16 or 32 bit (although the only 16 bit port is currently dead)
22:52:49amiconnlong can be 32 or 64 bit (the latter in the simulator only)
22:53:05enthehwould the 16-bit port be capable of 32-bit int values where needed (using long or whatever)?
22:53:31amiconnpointers are usually the same size as long, but don't rely on that
22:53:44enthehdo you have 'long long'?
22:53:44amiconnEspecially don't rely on pointers having the same size as int
22:53:54amiconnlong long is a gcc feature
22:54:14enthehI think DUMB uses it in just one place: it does a 32x32->64 multiply and just takes the top 32 bits of the result
22:54:38enthehit does it by casting to long long, then multiplying, then shifting >> 32, then casting back to int - and I checked the ASM for one GCC version and it was good
22:54:40amiconnThat offers some opportunities for optimisation on target :)
22:54:41enthehfor x86 that is
22:54:49enthehbut I'd probably not use that part of DUMB in the port anyway :)
22:54:56enthehso that's probably academic
22:55:08 Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection)
22:55:25amiconnOn coldfire this could then use emac optimisation
22:55:45amiconnenhanced multiply-accumulate
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22:56:07enthehwell it's part of the resampling/mixing loop
22:56:12amiconnIt's a dsp-like unit in the coldfire core
22:58:48enthehamiconn: how likely is it that the 16-bit port will be resurrected, and how likely is it that new ones will come along?
22:59:01amiconnI have no idea
22:59:24enthehplatforms where int is 16-bit aren't common these days ... and allowing for them would probably make life a bit difficult
22:59:28amiconnIt was a rather weird target
22:59:28enthehin DUMB in general
22:59:47Zagorentheh: I would recommend ignoring 16-bit and face that headache if/when we want/need it.
22:59:49amiconnNot only was it a 16 bit cpu, but it also was a harvard architecture
22:59:59enthehZagor: that's what I'm hoping I can get away with ^^
23:00:11amiconncalmrisc16 core
23:00:48entheheven Java is designed with 32-bit CPUs in mind (e.g. variable reads/writes are atomic except for the two 64-bit types)
23:01:06enthehwhat's a harvard architecture?
23:01:27amiconnSeparate instruction and data bus
23:02:07enthehoh, where code is in one address space and data are in another?
23:02:23amiconnMost dsps use this
23:02:33 Quit robin0800_ ("(A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nfluence with large hammer")
23:06:39SethXxXfor whoever is working on this: note there is a difference between the usb power coming from a pc connection and the wall charger, with ipods. the requires a data connection, the other only gives juice.
23:08:00amiconnOf course there is a difference, but rockbox does not yet detect it
23:08:55*amiconn ordered an usb wall charger for working on this problem
23:09:29 Quit blue_lizard (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:09:32SethXxX30 well spent bucks
23:09:41 Join blue_lizard [0] (
23:10:07 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
23:10:08 Join _jhMikeS_ [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
23:10:21Soap$30 for a 5v wall-wart with a USB jack?
23:10:37SethXxXfor a nice white apple charger
23:10:39SethXxXfrom FNAC
23:10:44SethXxXno electro shops here
23:10:47SethXxXtoo bad
23:10:58SethXxXotherwise i woulld also have gone the hardcore way
23:11:09amiconnEUR 12.70
23:11:24amiconn..from amazon germany
23:11:44amiconnNot the apple thing
23:13:28Mikachucan't you just put tape over the data+/- lines? :)
23:13:36Mikachu(on the regular usb cable)
23:16:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:16:57amiconnWhy does 'svn add' add a property svn_executable to my new file??
23:17:10amiconnsvn:executable even
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23:18:19SoapMikachu: I think even Saran wrap over the pins would make the plug too tight of a fit.
23:19:46 Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:23:14Mikachuyou can put the tape on the usb end
23:26:00 Quit mattzz_away ("Leaving")
23:28:37 Quit Redbreva (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:38:12bluebrotherone could also use a cheap usb cable, cut it in two halves and resolder the power wires ...
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23:48:22Soapor add a double pole switch...
23:48:33 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (n=thunderc@
23:50:24Zagoror one can just value ones' time so much that spending 12 euro is worth more than tinkering with cheap cables :)
23:51:26 Quit OgMaciel (Remote closed the connection)
23:53:10Soapbut a switch, man! Switch on, switch off! Frankenstein style blade switch at that! Dude...that's got to be worth 12 - 13 euros! ;)
23:58:46 Quit _jhMikeS_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:58:54amiconnThere's one advantage in having an usb wall charger over just having a modded cable: one can charge without carrying a computer

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