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#rockbox log for 2007-01-25

00:00:13linuxstb_There are no fonts in the build.
00:00:23linuxstb_(apart from the built-in system font)
00:00:26ZagorMikachu: dns redirect is not enough to fool a certificate
00:00:28spughm, okay
00:00:32 Quit tomthomson (Client Quit)
00:00:42Mikachuyeah i know, that's why i was surprised to not see https anywhere in the first place :)
00:01:00zefiehmm it doesnt find it even after tweaking the vid/pid/rev
00:01:00dan_aRoan: A lot of people would like to see ROCKboxed as the default theme - if it supported every language, then that would help their case
00:01:12zefieBadger: i compiled it it just wont find the device
00:01:22spugso a theme that's included in SVN has to use the built-in system font? seems strange that an SVN theme would require the fonts package
00:01:33ZagorMikachu: well we don't know what happens when you call it. the link bagder posted was http and promptly redirected to https.
00:01:34linuxstb_spug: No.
00:01:35Mikachui doubt any wps has a font with _every_ language
00:01:45Bagder#define ORG_VENDOR_ID 0x0781
00:01:46Bagder#define ORG_PRODUCT_ID 0x0720
00:02:00spuglinuxstb_: hm, okay
00:02:01Zagoralso Microsoft isn't exactly Standard Followers #1. they can just as well have done something home-cooked.
00:02:05linuxstb_spug: Users are expected to install the font package when they first install Rockbox. It just doesn't need to be updated very often, so it's separate.
00:02:15Bagderzefie: I bet the c200 has different vendor/product codes
00:02:29MikachuZagor: ah yes it did, i didn't see that, the url in the content of the https page isn't https though :)
00:02:39spuglinuxstb_: ah, okay. thanks.
00:03:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:03:36n1sspug: also if we ever release again (dont count on it!) the fonts will be included in the release package
00:03:52ZagorClock Reset. When power is lost to a Licensed Product, the clock must be reset such that when power is regained, the Licensed Product must detect the loss of power and set the state of the Secure Clock to an unset or unsecured state.
00:03:52 Quit dune2 ("Sleep in progress ... please, wait a while during dreams syncing ...")
00:04:27n1sZagor: ah, it's for the subscription-drm stuff.
00:04:28Zagorso if your battery runs out, you can't just charge it. you must also connect it to the internet.
00:04:33Zagorn1s: yes
00:04:35Mikachuthat's pretty awesome
00:05:00 Quit twins ("Quitte")
00:06:37zefieyour makefile doesnt like me
00:06:51 Join tomthomson [0] (
00:07:50Bagderwhat happens?
00:08:10zefienm got it to work
00:08:15zefiethe compile anyway
00:08:35zefieor not
00:08:50Bagderyou figured out the usb vendor/product id?
00:09:03zefieit wont compile using the makefile
00:09:09Bagderwhat happens?
00:09:09zefieit complains about usb functions missing
00:09:13zefieeven though libusb is installed
00:09:17zefieand lusb is being passed
00:09:26Bagderso where is it installed?
00:09:35zefiehowever if i just gcc e200tool.c -lusb -o e200tool.exe
00:09:38zefieit works fine
00:10:01Bagderthen it lacks the e200_code.o
00:10:07zefiei know
00:10:13zefiewhich is why i want the makefile to work
00:10:44Bagderso where is libusb installed?
00:11:17zefiegcc e200tool.c -lusb e200_code.o -o e200tool.exe
00:11:18zefiethat worked
00:12:02maquisit happened again
00:12:12zefieSearching for device 0781:0720 ... found 3 busses (scanning stuff) not found!
00:12:24ZagorSecureClock is of course the reason for the button battery aswell
00:12:38zefie(Zagor): makes sense.. drm stuff?
00:12:43Bagderzefie: as expected, you need to check your c200 ids
00:12:53zefie(Bagder): i did
00:13:02Bagder0781:0720 ?
00:13:22 Quit tomthomson ("( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )")
00:13:35 Join tomthomson [0] (
00:13:44zefieall of which i set accordingly inn the .h file
00:13:54 Part tomthomson
00:14:04Bagderso they use the same product id for c200 as e200
00:15:30ZagorRandom Number Generator. Licensed Products must implement and make use of a random number generator that is Cryptographically Random. For the avoidance of doubt, linear congruential random number generators are not acceptable.
00:16:24ZagorLicensed Products must implement support for Secure Store. Secure Store is defined as a data store for storing stateful WMDRM information including, but not limited to, play count and relative expiration.
00:16:34zefiemaybe e200tool and windows dont get along
00:16:43Zagorlots of requirements for drm
00:16:54Bagderzefie: yeah, it might be so
00:17:47 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:17:49BagderZagor: that's SYSTEM\WMDRMPD\STORE.HDS ;-)
00:17:50spugn1s: ah, yeah, i didn't think of the fonts being included in the releases, because i don't count on them ever ;D
00:17:53ZagorIf a Licensed Product implements Anti-Rollback Clock and detects and processes a Clock Rollback Event, WMDRM must delete any WMDRM License that specifies DeleteOnClockRollback.
00:18:15ZagorBagder: you think? ;)
00:18:36ZagorI'll stop pasting evilness now
00:19:21 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
00:19:25Bagderstrings -el firmware.bin shows mucho anyway
00:19:40ZagorBagder: actually that's probably the Data Store. there's both a Data Store and a Secure Store. 10.1
00:20:24Mikachubut it still plays regular mp3s?
00:21:10 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
00:22:04*Bagder goes to sleep
00:22:36MikachuZagor: i have 6GB downloaded on elephants dream i think
00:23:37Bagderthere's now torrents for them
00:23:47Mikachuyeah Soap mentioned that to me
00:24:03zefieyay you added the key fast ;p
00:24:09 Quit midkay (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:24:15Mikachuhttp uses less cpu than torrents though bandwidth has decreased with 3-4 gig/day
00:24:24Bagderzefie: MrH never sleeps ;-)
00:24:33Mikachuthat doesn't add up :)
00:25:02ZagorMikachu: did you mean 6 in total or 6 per day?
00:25:08Mikachuin total
00:25:33Mikachui'm not very confident in my script parsing the apache log though
00:25:47Zagorinteresting. well that's what I'm seeing. 9-10 gig/day last week, and now 5-6 gig.
00:26:07Mikachumaybe people stopped downloading them when they saw mikachu in the url
00:26:42 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
00:26:49*Mikachu checks how often apache logs rotate
00:26:50zefieMicro-Star Intl?
00:27:01Mikachujust once per month
00:27:14 Join Mouser_X3 [0] (
00:28:06 Nick Mouser_X3 is now known as Mouser_X (
00:28:33 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@
00:28:46Soapnobody has taken the torrent route in the six hours they have been up, so perhaps demand has simply peaked.
00:30:08ZagorI think people try http first and torrent only if http isn't available
00:30:21 Quit ender` (" .......It might be written "Mindfuck", but it's spelt "L-A-I-N".......")
00:30:23Zagorthat's what I'd do anyway
00:30:36safetydanBagder, your langv2 features patch has a minor problem. The $feat variable isn't expanded when the call to genlang is made.
00:30:50safetydanI think I might have mentioned this before.
00:31:04safetydanMy make/shell-fu wasn't up to fixing it.
00:31:37zefiemm more fun strings when opening the hidden system partition in winhex
00:31:55 Part n1s
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00:32:27 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
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00:35:33 Quit tamacracker (Remote closed the connection)
00:38:16 Quit linuxstb__ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
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00:41:56 Quit PaulJam (".")
00:42:48markunpixelma: I'm here (more or less)
00:43:55 Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:44:14safetydanWow. There I was about to ask if it would be hard to implement an "upside down" mode for the h120 lcd.
00:44:23safetydanLucky I decided to just look in the menu.
00:44:26safetydanRockbox has everything.
00:45:06*Mikachu doubts the 1g nano will get any more hardware features supported
00:45:26pixelmamarkun: do you know by chance what was edited to make a the nimbus-font from a chicago-font?
00:46:17 Join perldiver [0] (
00:47:03 Join linuxstb [0] (i=5343d4aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:47:32safetydanhrm... now if I could just combine the upside down LCD view with inverted joystick controls as well
00:47:46linuxstbMikachu: What hardware features do you mean?
00:48:05Mikachulike shutting down the lcd and upside down mode
00:48:11Mikachumaybe worded badly
00:48:36 Join Alonea [0] (
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00:49:33 Quit CriamosAndy ("( :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: )")
00:50:29spugMikachu: why won't it?
00:50:51 Join markun_ [0] (n=markun@rockbox/developer/markun)
00:51:07Mikachunobody seems to be working on it
00:51:15Mikachuand i failed miserably :)
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00:51:41markun_pixelma: only spacing and some minor adjustments to some glyphs
00:51:43 Nick Mouser_X is now known as Captian_Obvious (
00:52:01markun_anyway, good night
00:52:03linuxstbMikachu: All ipods are lacking developers...
00:52:10zefiei think the c200 is pp5502, since its mentioned alot in the bootrom partition
00:52:23 Quit Thundercloud_ (Success)
00:52:33linuxstbAnd IPL development seems to have stopped, at least the low-level hacking.
00:52:38Zagorzefie: can I see an example?
00:53:00 Quit MarcoPolo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:53:24zefiepp5022 rather
00:53:44 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (n=thunderc@
00:53:50 Quit markun (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:53:50zefiePP5022A PP5022B PP5022C PP5022D
00:54:07zefiei uploaded a image of the bootrom partition to my site if you want to scan it">
00:54:51safetydanman I should really check before I write things. The joystiq controls are inverted on the h120 with the LCD upside down.
00:56:49zefie"PRTLPLYR6005 with 5020" i wonder what that means
00:58:09pixelmamarkun_: thanks - I've found a link of a free (as the site claims) chicago-family-font. Now I'm not sure if it is already used (looks like it could be 11-point in the end - but the accented characters look too big)
00:58:16Zagoryeeech: FAT12
00:59:03zefiewhat else would a 16mb recovery partition be?
00:59:17ZagorFAT12 is for floppies
00:59:17zefietoo small for fat16
00:59:24zefiei think
00:59:45 Join Arathis [0] (
00:59:53Mikachuis there something particularly bad about fat12, apart from being 4 bits shorter?
01:00:06 Quit Arathis (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:00:13Roandan_a: Currently I'm using a font that is part of the fonts-package. It sounds like it will be easiest to pick a different font with better language support from within that package. Otherwise I need to find/modify/create a font with better language support that is good enough to become part of the fonts package.
01:00:20zefieanyway i think its safe to assume its PP5022
01:00:25zefiebut now what lol
01:00:31ZagorMikachu: well it's a mess coding it because the bits are packed together 12+12+12 etc.
01:00:38Zagorzefie: yes I agree
01:01:01preglowyuck <-
01:01:01pixelmasafetydan: yes sometimes it's better to check before writing things... ;P
01:01:08midgeydoesnt the e200 mention PP5022 a lot in its firmware?
01:01:35Zagorhaha −−> "this is a junk file used only for testing purposes.While runnign this needs to be replaced with original font file."
01:01:39Mikachumaybe they're giving you misleading info to throw you off
01:01:42linuxstbzefie: Disassembling it, it definitely looks like a PP502x - I recognise the register addresses.
01:01:59Mikachui'm glad i don't recognize register addresses
01:02:06*preglow gives linuxstb a vacation
01:02:16zefiebased on official fw images
01:02:30zefiethe c200 header has PP5022BF
01:02:36zefieadnt he e200 has PP5022AF
01:02:41zefieand the*
01:03:28zefiePP5022AF-05.51-S301-02.15-S301.02.15A-D 2006.11.03
01:03:28zefiePP5022BF-06.10-S301-06.10-S301.00.06ART 2006.12.12
01:03:34zefiefirst = e200, second = c200
01:03:51 Join g33 [0] (
01:04:57g33hey i have a few mp3 albums that doesnt play in rockbox, but play fine in original firmware and winamp... is it possible to fix them somehow, or do i have o recode them to get rockbox to play em?
01:05:23Zagorg33: sounds like dodgy id3 tags
01:06:02g33aight, what can i do about that?
01:06:11 Nick Captian_Obvious is now known as Mouser_X (
01:06:22Zagorwhat did you use to rip them?
01:06:40Zagoror are they downloads?
01:07:00zefiethe funny part is it doesnt take the PP5022.mi4 unless you rename it to firmware.mi4
01:07:37dan_azefie: The latest beta Sansa firmwares are the same
01:08:13 Quit Thundercloud (Connection timed out)
01:08:31zefie(dan_a): ?
01:08:40g33i didnt rip them
01:08:45zefiethe 1.00.06A isnt really released yet
01:08:52zefiei found it snooping on their update server
01:09:02dan_azefie: Sorry, I meant e200
01:09:31zefieso what would cause the rockbox e200 bootloader to power on then power off automatically after 10 seconds
01:09:42g33is there any chance installing the latest rockbox might help? the one i have is maybe 6months old
01:09:46zefiethe fact that it doesnt say invalid image is what sparks my interest
01:10:20safetydang33, it can't hurt
01:10:44Soapg33: if it is a metadata problem - and Zagor is probably right, updating probably won't fix it - but you'll get no support for anything but the latest Rockbox versions.
01:11:02 Join d_b_zZz [0] (
01:11:14d_b_zZzhello is this the channel for the rockbox firmware
01:11:19d_b_zZzseems so
01:11:25zefieoh shiz
01:11:31SoapYou should start by updating Rockbox, and if that doesn't fix the problem, look for APE tags instead of / in addition to ID3 tags on your MP3s.
01:11:36zefiei just managed to get into some sourt of "Diagnostics" mode!
01:11:37Zagorg33: try to recreate the tags. there are a number of tag programs around.
01:11:39d_b_zZzwas wondering about info for video ipod resolution and how to create theme
01:12:06Soapthere is an excellent wiki page on mpegplayer d_b_zZz
01:12:15zefieit says "Diagnostics." "SW1 Upgrade Firmwar"
01:12:20d_b_zZzand is there info about how to change rockbox file browser
01:12:24Mikachud_b_zZz: maybe you want
01:12:24d_b_zZzit is horribly nasty
01:12:51Soap"theme" ahh, sorry. Soap saw "them"
01:13:05zefieand pressing any button just makes it repeat "SW1 Upgrade Firmwar"
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01:13:22Mikachuhaha firmwar
01:13:25Mikachu<- easily amused
01:13:29zefiewell it has a small lcd
01:13:32zefieso it cuts off
01:13:38zefieanyway i hit REC while in Diag
01:13:39d_b_zZzcan font sizes or custom font be used
01:13:43zefieand got knocked into recovery
01:13:56Mikachud_b_zZz: please read that page
01:13:56d_b_zZzi basically wanna do a dotOS theme of my own
01:14:17zefiei wonder if there is a diag on the e200
01:14:32zefiewhat i did was
01:14:52zefiethe same as manufacture mode, but instead of the center button, i held the down button (the one that looks like the context menu)
01:15:42 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@
01:15:45d_b_zZzwps only seem to be scriptable
01:15:47g33file is using v1 tags, they seem allright in winamp... it says in the comment "r3mix compliant" :)
01:16:01d_b_zZzusing commands and such ...but there is no info on using my own font
01:16:05zefiebut its not too useful it just keeps saying the SW1 upgrade firmware
01:16:05g33if i remember correctly, rockbox plays the song for about a second before giving up
01:16:13 Quit tamacracker (Remote closed the connection)
01:16:19g33anyways gotta sleep, ill try update tomorrow
01:16:19 Quit webguest48 (Client Quit)
01:16:46d_b_zZzselfless plug to my design
01:17:28safetydand_b_zZz, you can have a custom font but only one and only one size
01:17:40 Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:17:50safetydand_b_zZz, you may be better off asking at the WPS and Customization forum,
01:18:17d_b_zZzhmm only one size
01:18:29d_b_zZzno biggie then
01:18:38 Quit Thundercloud__ (Connection timed out)
01:18:43d_b_zZzi do not use rockbox but just someone suggested to me that i make a theme
01:18:55d_b_zZzcuz to be honest alot seem way too ambitious or just plain crappy
01:19:07 Join SouLja^ [0] (
01:19:16SouLja^Anyone here?
01:19:59 Quit funky ("leaving")
01:20:13d_b_zZzwell good luck guys with rockbox
01:20:33d_b_zZzsuggestion: add customiziable default font
01:20:56 Join lachlan113 [0] (i=cbce3551@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:20:57 Join tamacracker [0] (
01:20:57Mikachuthat's a bit of an oxymoron
01:20:58d_b_zZzas stdout printf is way too user unintuitive
01:21:16d_b_zZzas in user can select a font to use as default
01:21:18Zagord_b_zZz: default font is already selectable
01:21:25d_b_zZzit is ?
01:21:27Mikachuif you select the font, it's not the default any more
01:21:28d_b_zZzwhat format?
01:21:45d_b_zZzdefault/ system font ..what you call it
01:22:11d_b_zZzdoes it support bitmap font
01:22:20d_b_zZz.raw maybe?
01:22:24Zagorwe have a conversion tool
01:22:30d_b_zZzsounds good
01:23:09lachlan113has anyone read this thread yet?
01:23:18Zagor.bdf to .fnt
01:23:24 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:23:44lachlan113I didn't realise people could be so stupid
01:24:11Zagorlachlan113: now you know why I never read the forum :)
01:24:23 Quit Roan ("Download Gaim:")
01:25:22lachlan113Haha, normally Llorean pounces on threads like this before they ever bubble to the surface
01:25:35 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (n=thunderc@
01:26:16Mikachulachlan113: people can always be so stupid
01:26:55 Quit SouLja^ ()
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01:27:42 Quit entheh ("^~")
01:27:45 Part d_b_zZz ("Leaving")
01:28:13zefiei just put a e200 image on the c200 using recovery mode and it says invalid image. ofc i didnt change the key.. hmmm...
01:28:14 Quit toffe (Remote closed the connection)
01:29:38 Quit lachlan113 ("CGI:IRC")
01:30:29zefieheh i changed the key then it went back to its old "load main image fail enter recovery mode"
01:30:50zefiei wonder what the major difference between the two are
01:30:58Mikachuone doesn't have a cpu :)
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01:48:26tanqhow come rockbox doesnt using the itunesdb instead of creating a new one?
01:50:13Zagorbecause rockbox is not an ipod firmware?
01:50:49Zagorbut primarily because the itunes format is undocumented
01:51:13Lloreantanq: Rockbox runs on a lot of players. Why should Rockbox agree to use a limited format when its own can be made better in the end?
01:51:54 Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
01:52:06tanqahh yes.. i forgot the big picture..
01:52:16 Quit Thundercloud (Connection timed out)
01:52:57 Join Mouser_X3 [0] (
01:53:18Zagorhowever it looks like enough is known about the db format now that a browser and/or converter could be written least until apple changes it again
01:53:49Mikachugtkpod at least successfully creates working databases
01:54:09 Quit muesli__ ("ich will Khe!!!")
01:55:12Zagora converter would probably be appreciated by many newcomers
01:55:19Zagorgo go go :)
01:55:41dewdude...why worry about itunesdb
01:55:46 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
01:55:47 Nick Mouser_X3 is now known as Mouser_X (
01:55:49dewdudeif you're using rockbox..aren't you trying to get away from itunes
01:55:54dewdudei mean..that was my reasoning.
01:56:15LloreanZagor: There was a converter for a while, I thought. I know there was at least one that recovered your playlists, but I thought there was one that converted to TagCache (when it had that name)
01:56:44Zagordewdude: yes, but it's quite painful for those who have a large collection in their ipod already.
01:56:52Mikachudewdude: apparently about half of them are converting because they want a background picture :)
01:56:58Zagoror maybe there's a simpler way. I've never used an ipod...
01:57:06ZagorMikachu: hehe
01:57:09dewdudeam i the only person who purchased an ipod specifically for rockbox?
01:57:29Mikachuthe idea that first comes to mind is to read the tags of the mp3 files on the ipod and move+rename them on the device
01:57:38Mikachushould require no actual data transfer (apart from the tags of course)
01:57:56dewdudetag&rename will rename files based on tag information...
01:58:10dewdudebut you ahve the problem of itunes likes to put files into random places
01:58:19Mikachuso use a better tagger
01:58:35dewdudetag&rename is a good tagger
01:58:38Mikachumoving all files to /<artist>/<album>/file automatically isn't hard
01:59:11dewdudeoh, it does that, i've just never used that feature
01:59:26Mikachuso the random places thing isn't an issue then
01:59:26pixelmayes Llorean that converted should be in the wiki still
02:00:05Lloreandewdude: I ran a poll on the forum once, and a decent percentage bought their iPods for Rockbox (admittedly these were our forums, but it's still nice to know even if definitely skewed)
02:00:26Zagorbed time
02:00:28 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
02:00:34dewdudeLlorean, :)
02:01:03dewdudei know when i found out that rockbox ran on the 5g's...i started looking at them serously...and now that i got one..i can't part with the thing.
02:01:06 Quit perldiver (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:02:02dewdudewow...not far off from down the middle
02:02:28dewdudeanyway, enough idle chit-chat from me in here...i need a smoke anyway
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02:07:33 Part Llorean
02:08:29zefieMikachu the headers for the c200 and the beta e200 are very simular as you said, i wonder why it wont run
02:10:14Mikachui am guessing you meant someone else
02:10:57zefieheh i put the bootloader rom from the e200 on here and now its doing funky things
02:11:41zefieoops i seemed to have killed my recovery mode
02:16:01zefiefunny how nothing works cept manufacture mode
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02:22:43zefiegotta reboot into a linux livecd to recover this thing now ;)
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02:54:26fathefneri have a question it rockbox a linux based os
02:55:21Soap100% from scratch.
02:56:23fathefneri know that the ipod has a linux os any connection
02:57:28SoapI'm not the man to answer in detail, but as far as I know some low-level code was gathered from IpodLinux in the early days. If you follow both projects now you'll see much more low-level developement in Rockbox than IpodLinux.
02:57:40JdGordonwell... 100% isnt exactly true... parts of linux source was taken (stuff like the asm memcpy and such) :p
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02:58:05fathefnerok i get it
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02:58:13fathefnerthatnk u
02:58:19fathefnerthank u
02:58:49fathefneralso are there other programs were u can view avi and oother video formats
02:59:00Soapnot for the ipod.
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03:01:11fathefnercan rockbox play video
03:02:30safetydanfathefner, yes but not well at the moment. It's still in development.
03:03:12fathefnerok srry for the troble
03:03:20fathefnerand srry no spell check
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03:06:59rds(maybe a crazy question, but...) could it be possible to run rockbox under ipodlinux? I think that running the simulator could be easy (with a port of SDL to ipodlinux...)
03:07:49rdsOn this way, I'll get ipodlinux with the great rockbox GUI
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03:09:14safetydanrds, it might be possible but would be one heck of a lot of work
03:10:00safetydanyou'd essentially be creating a new port of Rockbox, with all the problems that new ports have
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03:12:29 Quit XavierGr ()
03:13:03Lloreanrds: Out of curiosity, *why*?
03:13:35LloreanSpecifically, why do you want to add additional overhead to Rockbox (also probably preventing it from using dual core) just so that you can be running it on top of iPL?
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03:14:49rdsLlorean: just curiosity
03:15:52Lloreanrds: In theory it's possible, but with the option to triple boot already available in both bootloaders the best solution would be to get ROLO working in Rockbox, and an equivalent working in iPL so that you can have one reboot you into the other, and vice versa.
03:16:18LloreanYou get the benefits of running Rockbox natively, and it can be disguised as looking like you're just launching an app
03:17:33LloreanWell, in theory ROLO can load iPL, though I don't believe anyone's tried it yet, since I'm too lazy to set up an ext2 partition again.
03:19:09rdsThanks Llorean, that was plenty of information!
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03:54:54zefiephew that was complicated
03:56:00zefietho it seems with that knowledge i could unbrick any sansa
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04:19:06webguest15any rockbox coder here?
04:19:19LloreanArguably, though they may not be paying attention right now.
04:19:52webguest15ha i "know" you... u post on ipod on 80g 5.5
04:20:06webguest15ok here is my question for the record
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04:20:48webguest15do u think it would be possible to transform a rockbox operated player in a kind of usb soundcard?
04:21:28LloreanIt might be able to transform one of the portalplayer ones into a bad one, possibly.
04:22:11webguest15that would be kinda cool tough i believe the latency wouldn't that much of a miracle
04:22:34LloreanWell, with the PortalPlayer ones, the USB is more or less software controlled. I'm not sure to what extent, but if it's enough, you could basically run a software soundcard that communicates through the USB port. It'd be *bad* if it's even physically capable.
04:22:51webguest15why bad?
04:23:03perplexitythe question is *why* you would want to do that.. I mean really.. a usb soundcard can be had for cheaps
04:23:27webguest15sure but i already have my player ;)
04:23:35Lloreanwebguest15: Well, you're working with a rather limitedly slow processor. I mean how bad it is depends on how much power it really needs to have, I suppose.
04:23:54perplexityrighto then.. check the wiki, install your cross-compiler and off you go ;)
04:24:08webguest15well u don't need flops to play PCM
04:24:23perplexityyou do to run an isosynchronous usb interface though
04:24:27webguest15already have cross compiler
04:24:47webguest15is that power consumming?
04:24:48LloreanYou don't have *any* flops in Rockbox anyway.
04:25:03LloreanI guess "fpops"
04:25:13webguest15ok mips then
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04:28:13webguest15perplexity: do u need cpu power to sustain usb asynchronous connection w/ PCM CD quality flow?
04:28:52webguest15what about ogg encoding for transfer... would it be any better?
04:29:39Lloreanwebguest15: I think part of the assumption is that you want more than streamed PCM from a soundcard, I mean there are very few computers these days without a minimal soundcard build in.
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04:29:54perplexitywebguest15 seriously.. the answer is yes you do.. and no the player would not have enough power to decode ogg and run usb even if you wrote a driver for the pc end
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04:31:52webguest15Llorean: no i just want a second sound card for 0 EUR...
04:32:14perplexitylike I said, grab the specs, your compiler and get writing ;)
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04:32:56webguest15perplexity: hear, hear... just doing like a feasability check!
04:33:17webguest15i don't wanna rush head first into it
04:33:39webguest15gotta take some advice from skilled rockbox devel
04:33:59perplexitywell then, as Llorean said.. it *may* be possible on a PP unit, but you will need to write your own usb gadget stack from scratch most likely.. and don't even think about trying to do anything else on the player at the same time..
04:34:26webguest15it's sort of hard work: alsa backend, rockbox plugin... even some rockbox core mods...
04:34:53LloreanNot to mention there's no USB driver at all on PortalPlayer targets yet.
04:34:53webguest15what is a PP unit?
04:34:58perplexitywhat has alsa got to do with it? you need to impliment the USB sound spec
04:35:01safetydanDo we even know how USB works on PP targets?
04:35:04LloreaniRiver H10, Sansa, iPod.
04:35:05safetydanah, beaten by Llorean again
04:35:14perplexitydoubt it..
04:35:36Lloreansafetydan: We've made some headway. Someone "noticed" that the USB controller seems identical to another one that is documented, but with offset registers (or something, I'm only vaguely aware of it)
04:35:52webguest15USB sound spec... gotta take a look into that.
04:35:57LloreanBut it's still all software, so we need a USB stack, etc.
04:36:12safetydanLlorean, ah yes, I remember those emails now
04:36:54safetydanwebguest15, put it this way, unless your time is free and you have a lot of it, it's going to be a lot cheaper to buy a USB sound card
04:37:36webguest15my time ain't free. got a limited amount of that: round a century or so. What's limited got a price...
04:37:53webguest15a least in capitalist countries
04:38:35webguest15but the real question is: do i want to invest my time in a IT project that seems interresting...
04:38:51LloreanI'd suggest doing on that's actually beneficial to the Rockbox community as a whole.
04:38:58LloreanBut that's what I always suggest.
04:39:30webguest15sure but i'm not confident at all w/ hardware reverse engineering...
04:39:51webguest15if that's what u have in mind
04:40:11safetydanwebguest15, well first you need to figure out how to talk to the PortalPlayer USB hardware. Then you need to write a USB stack that works with that and Rockbox. Then you need to implement the USB sound device spec. Then you need to figure out how to link that to the Rockbox PCM playback system.
04:40:18safetydanJust a small matter of programming really.
04:41:41webguest15ohh that looks trivial really... ;)
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04:44:46boris2sorry got disconnected this is webguest15
04:45:16boris2well anyway thank u for ur opinions
04:45:28boris2i'm gonna think about all that
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04:49:18safetydanhrm, the inverted controls don't seem to survive a restart if you have the LCD upside down setting on
04:49:50safetydanoh wait, ignore me again
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04:52:07saratogais the pp5020 frequency scaling patch likely to be commited soon?
04:52:28 Part mightybrick
04:52:52saratogait seems to be stable, and helps with power use
04:55:44Lloreansaratoga: I think it and kernel_on_cop don't entirely get along well enough yet, or something.
04:57:06JPMaximilianis feisty still considerably unstable?
04:57:48saratogaLlorean: people on the patch tracker seem to think the issue is resolved
04:58:04JPMaximilianthat was intended for the ubuntu channel
04:58:07safetydanLlorean might be considered feisty, not sure about being unstable though :)
04:58:21Lloreansaratoga: Do you know the FS#?
04:58:27LloreanJPMaximilian: Figured.
04:58:48Lloreansaratoga: The "Experiment" one?
04:59:08saratogathe v6 one
04:59:13saratogai believe its the current version
04:59:44saratogaanyway, if the voltage patch is at very least reasonably compatable with the cop patch, and stable on its own, i think it should be commited
04:59:47saratogaits useful on its own
04:59:57saratogaand more work will be required for the cop patch anyway
05:00:09saratogasince we currently don't seem to be able to put have the stuff that should go on the cop on the cop
05:00:28saratogaat least not without getting random lockups
05:00:49Lloreansaratoga: My Nano runs with things on the COP just fine.
05:01:04LloreanIf the PP5020 gets random lockups while putting things on the COP, then there are still things to work out.
05:01:46LloreanI'm not sure why someone there is moving anything but the codec thread to the cop though
05:02:14saratogaevidently some of the threads can't work on the cop
05:02:17saratogayeah i don't know why they'd do that
05:02:24saratogait seems like codec on the cop would be easiest
05:02:24LloreanThe only threads on COP should be Main and Codec
05:02:37LloreanAlso, I'm not sure 60/90 are the best frequency choices...
05:03:16LloreanIt's a good deal higher than what we use today
05:03:17saratogayeah i was wondering about that, but we'll probably want to tweak it anyway once the COP is commited
05:03:28saratogasince then we'll need way less CPU
05:03:34LloreanIt seems like the patch is trying to kill two birds (skipping in playback, and freezes) and it should only be killing one.
05:03:55LloreanIf someone posted one that didn't change the current CPU speeds, and fixed the freezes, it'd probably be *much* more likely to get included.
05:04:05saratogaalso, does rockbox really not idle the CPU?
05:04:23LloreanRockbox only idles the CPU if nothing at all needs to be done, I believe. Which is a rare state indeed.
05:04:38saratogayeah, i'm mostly wondering about when the thing is sitting there not playing
05:04:47saratogai wonder why they chose such a high CPU speed for it
05:04:58saratogaseems like 10 or 12 MHz should be fine
05:04:58LloreanAs I said, they want to fix problems the patch shouldn't be addressing
05:05:10LloreanI think the 24 is something they were restricted to
05:05:13saratogaperhaps you should post your thoughts to that entry
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05:05:55saratogaperhaps encourage them to split this up into different tasks
05:07:01LloreanAlright, I've made comment 100
05:07:10LloreanIncreasing the CPU frequency is a BAD solution. It's already unfavourable.
05:07:28LloreanIt makes battery life worse, and it's a way of saying "We can't solve the problem with the tools we have, so let's pretend like it's not there"
05:07:52safetydansaratoga, there is some code related to CPU sleep in thread.c. Of the PP targets only the PP5020 seems to be supported
05:07:58safetydancheck sleep_core(void)
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05:08:30pyrokenxHey all
05:09:00saratogawell, i need to get some sleep
05:09:01pyrokenxno matter what I do with my ipod nano, rockdoom wont work, this is after following the directions and looking very hard on the web
05:09:03saratogathanks for the info
05:09:10saratogaand thoughts
05:09:11pyrokenxon my iriver I got it to work
05:09:31Lloreanpyrokenx: What folder are your main wads in?
05:09:37pyrokenxthe directory listed was not the right one in the directions for the iriver
05:09:39pyrokenxso I suspect the same
05:09:45pyrokenxthe wads are in /games/doom/
05:09:51LloreanThey belong in /.rockbox/doom/
05:09:57pyrokenxrockdoom.wad doom1.wad and doom2.wad
05:10:03pyrokenxI put them there as well
05:10:05pyrokenxafter searching on the web
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05:10:25LloreanAre you using an official SVN version of Rockbox, a new one?
05:10:33pyrokenxusing a daily build
05:10:59pyrokenxnot sure, probably not
05:11:01pyrokenxfrom a week ago
05:11:12pyrokenxthat can be easily fixed though ;p
05:12:07LloreanI tested Doom on several targets yesterday with no problem, though I haven't tested it on Nano recently
05:12:28LloreanIf you can't get it working with the .wads in /.rockbox/doom on a Nano with the most recent SVN build, I'll happily try myself and see what happens
05:12:44pyrokenxok, I will do that in a bit
05:12:58pyrokenxprops to the devs@ rockbox
05:13:03pyrokenxyour one of my favorite open projects :)
05:13:27pyrokenx(which are my only favorite kinds) ;)
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06:13:19SindalAnyone had luck unlocking a fujitsu HDD?
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06:15:58LloreanSindal: In regards to the ones in Rockbox targets, I believe this is the information available:
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06:18:24JdGordonmidkay: hey mate, wassup?
06:18:25Sindalyea Ive been reading through there (thats how I found this channel). Im just not having any luck unlocking this particular drive using the ATA password tool
06:18:47LloreanWell, as it says, nobody here has really experienced a problem with that since '02
06:19:26Sindalok thanks
06:19:32LloreanIf your drive isn't from an Archos player, there's no guarantee that the password is blank.
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06:30:46Aaron3Do you guys like to keep your FLAC cd's as one large cd, or split up?
06:31:29LloreanSince Rockbox supports proper gapless, there's really no reason not to split it up for playback.
06:32:02Aaron3Oh, can I get some wiki access to upload RockSki to the Wiki
06:32:27Aaron3I set up the username AaronGoltz
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06:33:44LloreanAaron3: It should be done
06:33:54Aaron3I'll go check
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06:37:22Aaron3So this isn't as hopping as I would have hoped
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06:39:40midkayJdGordon: hey.. i just had a question about your latest commit.
06:40:40midkayprefixing a setting+value with "~" will effectively keep that setting locked so that even if it's changed in Rockbox, the change won't be saved to the config file unless the file is edited or the tilde removed?
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06:40:59Lloreanmidkay: That's what the message sounds like.
06:41:19midkaythat's what the example definitely looks like to me.. but the way he worded the message made me wonder.
06:44:19LloreanI rather like that as a feature.
06:44:25LloreanAssuming that's what it is.
06:45:35midkayyeah, it seems useful actually...
06:45:56LloreanIt lets you set some constant defaults.
06:46:38midkayyeah, right.
06:47:06LloreanThough I personally would only be likely to use it for volume. Still, some people might like it for repeat mode, shuffle mode, etc.
06:47:59midkayyeah.. i can see it being useful for a lot of people. i don't think off the top of my head that i'd use it for anything, though.
06:48:05fejfighterI could be handy for testing settings as a one off, especially testing patches
06:48:37LloreanWell it could also be used to automatically disable idle poweroff or whatnot.
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06:55:06Aaron3So I uploaded my theme to the Wiki but I'm not sure how to get it to appear at the index of themes at the top
06:59:21LloreanDid you use the same formatting for the entry, regarding header and stuff, as the other entries do?
07:00:15Aaron3I used −−-RockSki for the header, followed by −−- at the end
07:01:18Aaron3I need a ++
07:01:36Aaron3I thought the guy above me was just using that as part of his theme title
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07:02:32KCCwhich platform does your theme run on?
07:02:36JdGordonmidkay: Llorean, i wish you guys were her last night.. the swedes (apart from linus) didnt like ti so much :p
07:02:55JdGordonand yes, you got it.. except you cant even disable it just yet.. minor oversight on my part
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07:04:00Aaron35G ipod
07:04:05LloreanJdGordon: It solves the problem of people setting the volume too high from being in a loud place, turning it off, and then turning it on and deafening themselves.
07:04:20LloreanIt doesn't seem *terribly* useful, but I can see it as a general solution to more problems than many specific solutions are.
07:04:56JdGordonit just needs a simple way to manage them.. because once they are loaded, even reloading config.cfg wont disable them
07:06:10LloreanJust make it so that explicitly loading a .cfg file (clicking on it, browse configs, etc) resets all ~s set
07:06:10Aaron3Do any of you know which DAP has the highest quality output? Is the SNR coming from the Ipod's line out as good as one can get?
07:06:57LloreanAaron3: The digital output of the H100 series tops that, if you've got a good external DAC.
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07:07:29JdGordonLlorean: atm the ~ settings are only read if config.cfg is used (and they are onl saved if saving to config.cfg), you rekon loading any other .cfg is good enough?
07:07:54Aaron3Such as a headphone amp?
07:09:04LloreanAaron3: I said "DAC" not "Amp"
07:10:05LloreanJdGordon: Well, if you load a .cfg manually, any settings *in* that .cfg should be reset.
07:10:05Aaron3Well what is a DAC(Digital Audio Converter)? I thought those were inside the MP# player
07:10:10LloreanSo if it sets volume, it should.
07:10:20LloreanBut if it's just a theme.cfg, it should only overwrite the theme options.
07:10:39LloreanAaron3: Yes, but if you're using an MP3 player's Digital Output, clearly it hasn't been converted to Analog yet, has it?
07:10:46perplexity<Llorean> Aaron3: The digital output of the H100 series tops that, if you've got a good external DAC. <−− that looked pretty self explanatory to me..
07:14:51Aaron3Well I guess it was self explanatory for you but not for me
07:16:41LloreanAs for the iPod SNR, I can still pick up a hiss with my CX300s, it's not as bad as the analog out on the iRiver, but it's worse than the Archos or Sansa.
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07:17:02LloreanThe Sansa has a bit of a noise issue regarding the LEDs for the scrollwheel, and I haven't heard sound in Rockbox yet since that's not done.
07:17:10LloreanAnd I haven't tested the Gigabeat with them yet.
07:17:43Aaron3Have you seen anything about that company that installs the DAC inside the ipod and sells the docks for 2000 dollars?
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07:26:09Aaron3Did they phase out optical inputs and outputs on the new 300 series because they thought people don't really use them?
07:26:54JdGordonLlorean: done :)
07:26:55LloreanThey also changed the retail firmware so it only recorded MP3, not WAV as well
07:28:38Aaron3I've been hearing background noise from the hard drive and other random noises on my Ipod. I'm guessing it has nothing to do with Rockbox and maybe my headphone jack has come loose
07:29:10LloreanAaron3: HD spinups on some devices can create audible noise in headphones.
07:29:22LloreanI have a Nano so there's no disk spinup, but I think I've heard people mention it on iPod.
07:30:00 Quit toffe ("MegaIRC v3.27")
07:32:17 Part safetydan
07:33:28JdGordonLlorean: do you think the ~ settings should be accepted from any .cfg file? or only config.cfg?
07:34:05LloreanJdGordon: Only config.cfg, I think
07:34:25LloreanBut that's just me.
07:34:32JdGordonok, i agree
07:34:39LloreanI'm not really sure what other people would do with it.
07:35:04JdGordonneither. :p
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07:48:18Aaron3Do you think it would be hard to open up an ipod and wire up a small minijack up to the line-in pins internally?
07:48:22*JdGordon hates trying to make the commit messages understandable and sort of short :p
07:49:43LloreanAaron3: It's been done before, I believe, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort. You're going to want to use the line-out with a proper amp anyway, and in that case you could just use a dongle.
07:50:18Aaron3Oh, i'm talking about using the line-in pins for recording
07:50:49LloreanOh, sorry, I read "line-out pins" for some reason
07:51:00Aaron3Six months ago I wired up a line-in dock connector when I was trying out IpodLinux but I never could tell how well it worked since i didn't havea mic preamp
07:51:01LloreanEven then, a dongle should be good enough, but it would be possible probably
07:51:45Aaron3Yeah, I guess it would be looking for too much trouble just to be able to sport an extra minijack
07:56:18Aaron3What causes a FLAC file's kbps to be really low, like 500 instead of around 1000?
07:56:46Aaron3I thought that maybe it meant the source was bad like if I tried to convert a low kbps .mp3 to a Flac file
07:56:51 Quit combrains ("Rockbox Rocks :)")
07:57:40LloreanEh, usually it's just a question of how easy or hard the audio is to compress acoustically.
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07:58:58Aaron3So when a kbps is lower on an mp3 it means lower quality, but that isn't true about flac?
08:00:59LloreanFLAC is lossless.
08:01:03LloreanThere is no such thing as lower quality.
08:01:05JdGordonuh oh! /me isnt going to be popular when ppl wake up :p
08:01:37Aaron3Alright, I'm going to bed. Thanks for the answers Llorean
08:01:51LloreanJdGordon: I thought Rombox already didn't build for Rec...
08:02:05LloreanAt least the downloads only include Rockbox.ucl, and not Rombox.ucl
08:02:10Aaron3I'm going to go give this Japan Harvest Pink Floyd dark side of the moon
08:02:19Aaron3Unfortunately without my Grados
08:02:22JdGordonI dunno.. but its red now :p
08:03:32JdGordonLlorean: ah, you are right.... for some reason if the size is slightly too large it says so but with an error that the script doesnt expect so its not red
08:03:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
08:03:49JdGordonI just tipped it back over to the point where gcc complains instead of the external script
08:04:24LloreanSo you didn't actually break anything more, you just made it more apparent that it's broken.
08:04:55amiconnThis usesless persistent settings thing now increased code size even more :(
08:05:14LinusNi wonder if the perhaps the persistence feature is worth it
08:05:14JdGordon:D morning mr grumpy :)
08:05:47LloreanIt does resolve a few common feature requests. I've seen this exact feature requested at least once, as well as the fact that it allows for a consistent safe boot volume level.
08:06:19LloreanI can't say whether it's worth it or not, but I do expect it to be reasonably popular among the masses.
08:06:24LinusNLlorean: i believed so too, but i couldn't find an exact match in flyspray
08:06:54amiconnI can't see a usage case where it would be useful, but perhaps it is, for someone :/
08:07:05LloreanLinusN: The request specifically for it was never posted to flyspray, I don't think. I do know that somewhere, someone told me (or the forums) that they wanted an option to be able to 'lock' features so that they reset upon reboot.
08:07:20LinusNamiconn: you don't usually see a use case for features you don't use yourself
08:07:25amiconnJdGordon: At least I think that when settings are converted to use tables it will become simpler and more compact to implement
08:08:21JdGordoneither way, when the settings are finished being moved there should be a bit more room to play with
08:08:27amiconnThen you don't need to store the settings strings which are persistent, but just store the indices
08:08:47LloreanThough another less code-intensive option is just having it load two .cfg files
08:08:52LloreanA second, persistent.cfg
08:08:58LloreanThat one is never written to, and loaded second.
08:09:21JdGordonnice and simple...
08:09:27LloreanYou get the exact same functionality with a somewhat simpler interface. ;)
08:09:58JdGordonthats a 2nd disk read tho at startup... will the speed difference be noticable?
08:10:35LloreanAs long as the disk isn't spun down, I rather doubt it.
08:10:50LloreanWith how long WPS loading takes, an extra single rather small file probably won't be measurable.
08:10:51*amiconn likes this 'second file' idea much better
08:11:41JdGordonok, we'll do that then, got a better name for the file than persistent.cfg tho?
08:11:47amiconnLess code, and easier to persist/unpersist settings on device
08:11:54LloreanJdGordon: Bah, I'm terrible with names.
08:11:57 Part Teknomancer
08:12:39JdGordonboot.cfg maybe?
08:12:53amiconnfixed.cfg ?
08:12:59LloreanI like fixed.cfg
08:13:05JdGordonload_me_after_config_so_i_dont_blow_out_my_ears.cfg ?
08:13:08LloreanBoot.cfg suggests it has something to do with booting or the bootloader.
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08:20:53JdGordonok, done
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08:27:57LloreanAnd there you go, back to being not yet Red on the Rec builds
08:28:39LinusN2892 bytes to go
08:29:44LloreanLinusN: Wasn't someone talking recently about having greatly reduced the size of the Archos bootloader thingy?
08:30:21LinusNi dunno
08:30:40LinusNi thought the archos bootloader was kind of small
08:30:59amiconnLlorean: [IDC]Dragon did, but it's not yet committed. Not the bootloader, but bootbox
08:31:53amiconnLinusN: This is because rockbox boot on a flashed archos is a bit more modular than on the swcodec targets
08:32:20Lloreanamiconn: Well, isn't "bootbox" the in-flash replacement bootloader, essentially? Or am I confusing my terms again?
08:32:24amiconnThe swcodec bootloader is the equivalent to our archos flash loader *
08:32:29amiconnplus* bootbox
08:32:48*Llorean goes to read the wiki
08:33:03amiconnOn archos, the flash loader is very tiny, because it has no lcd output and disk access code at all
08:33:34LloreanAnd bootbox is the charging/USB thing. Gotcha.
08:33:56amiconnIt just allows selecting from 2 boot images with button presses (plus the serial "minimon" with a third button)
08:34:12amiconnThe boot images can be ucl compressed or uncompressed
08:34:21LloreanIs the amount he decreased Bootbox enough to get Rombox back for the moment?
08:34:29 Quit perldiver (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
08:34:35amiconnThe first image is the backup image, the second image is the main image
08:34:35GodEaterLlorean appears to be catching some forum related illness where he uses the words "thing" and "thingy" a lot ;)
08:34:58amiconnOnly the second image is replaced when flashing rockbox.ucl/rombox.ucl
08:35:27LinusNi still think we need a strategy how to handle featuritis on the archos
08:35:41amiconnThe first image is bootbox, which is the emergency image and is able to load rockbox from disk, give usb access, and on the recorder v1 charge the batteries
08:35:42LinusNrockbox is not going to shrink in the future
08:36:18LloreanLinusN: I still think putting it in a branch, and feature-freezing it isn't so bad a thing by this point. With a grandfathered in exception for WAV playback.
08:36:20LinusNso some features will inevitably have to be excluded from the archos
08:36:22amiconnThere is a good deal of space to regain from lang v2 cleanup
08:36:33LinusNamiconn: very true
08:36:38*amiconn wonders whether safetydan is still working on it
08:37:01amiconnA smaller bootbox will give us some more room
08:37:28LinusNamiconn: how much?
08:37:38amiconnIt's an incompatible change for rombox.ucl though, because the load address is different
08:38:11amiconnThe latter isn't a big problem imho. rockbox_flash.rock checks this
08:38:24amiconnLinusN: ~12KB iirc
08:38:35LinusNoh? where did he find all that space?
08:39:25amiconnIirc [IDC]Dragon cut out file system & disk write support, subdirectory support, font characters outside the ascii range
08:39:58*amiconn wonders whether he did the latter for the player as well
08:39:58LinusNgosh! plenty of #ifdef then?
08:40:05amiconnNot sure
08:40:25amiconnHe didn't show his code yet
08:42:03 Join DaRoos [0] (
08:42:28DaRoosanyone awake? I have a few questions about 5g rockbox
08:43:04DaRoosTHanks. I am very familiar with rockbox, so this SHOULD be easy.
08:43:21DaRoosI had a problem with RB, so I had to format my unit with itunes, and start over. No problem.
08:43:41DaRoosI've been using "version 2" of the config, the one with -scan that's easier... howerver, I've got an odd problem.
08:44:06amiconnLinusN: starting 22:47
08:44:19DaRoosMy unit functions asnd plays fine, but randomally it "freezes" it's screen during play... I can make the lcd light up, and it keeps playing, but I *have* to reboot it to do anything. Anyone else seen this/
08:44:32LloreanTo translate, "the most recent released version of ipodpatcher" I'm guessing, since "config" doesn't mean much in regards to −−scan, and neither does "version 2" since I believe the reported version is 0.5 or 0.6
08:44:50LinusNDaRoos: are you using the database?
08:44:57LloreanDaRoos: And what build are you using?
08:45:03DaRoosI'm not sure what version is what - I have no idea where to find various ipodpatcher versions.
08:45:15DaRoosI'm using the latest "build" of the IPOD (daily builds)
08:45:16GodEaterit says it on the first line when you run it
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08:45:23DaRoosOk, I'll run now - 1 sec :)
08:45:30LloreanDaRoos: It shouldn't matter, if you used the version with −−scan, and you've booted Rockbox, then you're past needing to really care.
08:45:57 Quit midgey ()
08:45:59LinusNDaRoos: you are not the only one observing this
08:46:02GodEateris this a symptom of the frequency scaling issue on some iPods ?
08:46:47LinusNi dunno
08:47:10DaRoosipodpacher .05
08:47:17DaRooser 0.5
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08:47:41GodEaterI doubt it's an ATA issue too
08:47:43LloreanLinusN: This sounds like the inverse of that.
08:47:56LloreanDaRoos: You say the screen freezes but playback continues?
08:48:06LinusNah yes
08:48:27DaRoosThat's exactly right.. and it will keep going to, even to the next song or whatever... just the video freezes
08:48:39LloreanThat's new.
08:48:40LinusNthat's a new one :-)
08:48:43DaRoosand I can't adjust volume or really do anything BUT make the lcd light up and touch and of course hard-reboot
08:49:01DaRoosThis guy on that weblink has same exact issue:
08:49:02DaRoosComment by Chris Wong (decayed.cell) - Wednesday, 24 January 2007, 09:37PM
08:49:02DaRoosI don't know if this is related, but every now and then after adding music and updating the database, I'll play maybe 20 minutes of songs, and when I go to play the next one it freezes - not the whole of rockbox, but just the playback stops. If I try to play another song, sometimes it says file not found, sometimes playback just freezes again. To fix this, I have to restart the iPod. Just noting this because it happened again last night ><
08:49:23DaRoosWhat is "the database" you speak of?
08:49:23LloreanDaRoos: No, his problem is that the music stops but the delay is fine.
08:49:33LloreanErr display
08:49:37LloreanNot delay
08:49:46DaRoosoh, true.. ok, just noticed that.
08:50:01LloreanClearly we need to swap some parts and then you'll have one iPod that freezes the right way, and one that works.
08:50:19DaRoosI never had *any* issues iwth my un it since the apple format/update and me using the new ipodpatcher versions. Could it be related to that?
08:50:31LloreanIt's somewhat unlikely
08:50:38LloreanHas this happened on multiple builds of Rockbox, or just this one?
08:50:40GodEaterDaRoos: <−− database
08:50:44Bagdersvn committer 38 added
08:50:50DaRoosI've tried multipole builds of rockbox, even really old ones.
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08:51:37LloreanDaRoos: And your bootloader has black background and white text?
08:51:48DaRoosGodeater : gotcha, I'm not using database at all.
08:51:48LloreanIt's rather unlikely to relate to the bootloader at all.
08:52:12DaRoosLlorean : yes, I'm using the very very default rockbox, to help troubleshoot - it still does it.
08:52:29DaRoosStandard Rockbox, no toys or addons, or themes, etc
08:53:00LloreanDaRoos: And what format is the music, out of curiosity?
08:53:08LloreanThough that seems unlikely to be a cause either.
08:53:08DaRoosStandard mp3's, audiobooks
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08:53:20DaRoosno, i"ve tried all kinds of various mp3's in my troubleshooting
08:53:32LloreanHow do you reproduce it?
08:53:41DaRoosI really think it's the something apple may have done in their latest firmware that rockbox doesn't like?
08:53:54LloreanThat seems rather unlikely too.
08:53:54DaRoosOR there's a problem with my ipod hardware wise (seems unlikely)
08:54:03DaRoosOR it's the ipodpatcher (bootloader)
08:54:17LloreanThere's really not much that the bootloader or the apple firmware can do to cause this sort of thing, or shouldn't be.
08:54:32DaRoosTo reproduce it, all I have to do is just turn it on, play my audiobook and eventually it will freeze the screen - maybe 1 minute, maybe 30, but it will do it.
08:55:08GodEaterthe audiobook is an mp3 too ? Or some other format ?
08:55:15LloreanGodEater: MP3, we covered that. :-P
08:55:17DaRoos(screen freezes, I can't adjust volume, use menus.. all I can do is reboot it OR make the lcd come on by touching any of the 'wheel' area)
08:55:32LloreanDaRoos: And progress doesn't update or anything?
08:55:43GodEaterLlorean: sorry - I guess I interpreted that line differently to you
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08:55:51DaRoosBefore I came here, I reformatted it again, to maybe try to get bug go away. Where can I get ipodpatcher 0.6? Maybe I should try that one?
08:56:00LloreanGodEater: I realized it could be interpreted differently immediately after I said that.
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08:56:24LloreanDaRoos: There isn't really a 0.6.
08:56:27DaRoosllorean : no, progress doesn't update... just freezes screen.. but it keeps playing as normal, same volume and will even keep playing the next mp3's in the audiobook as normall.. just keeps going.
08:56:31GodEaterDaRoos: if ipodpatcher were the problem, you wouldn't even be running rockbox
08:56:33LloreanIt's hard to explain clearly, but basically the newest released version is the one with −−scan
08:56:58DaRoosI understand that ll.. some people in forums refer to it as "generation 2" of the loader or whatever
08:57:02LloreanIt's just that there was a 0.5 *before* the scan option, and I couldn't remember if the −−scan one was 0.5, or 0.6
08:57:24*Llorean has never seen anyone in the Rockbox forums refer to that as generation 2 of ipodpatcher.
08:57:29LloreanAnd ipodpatcher *isn't* the loader.
08:57:43GodEaterthere's the 0.6cvs version - but linuxstb *doesn't* want it in the hands of people who can't compile it themselves. He's said so.
08:57:58LloreanGodEater: Yeah, that really shouldn't be numbered 0.6
08:58:10GodEaterbesides, I *really* don't think it's an ipodpatcher issue
08:58:13LloreanThe current one should be 0.6 (or higher)
08:58:28GodEaterhow large is the mp3 DaRoos ?
08:58:29LloreanDaRoos: How old is the "really old" build you tried?
08:58:33DaRooscould it be a problem with the image it's loading? Should I use the old-school loader (the one with mroe steps) and those images?
08:58:39DaRoosabout 6 months...
08:58:53LloreanDaRoos: The "image" as you speak, is the actual bootloader.
08:58:56DaRoosI used to do a full save of my ipod for the fuck of it, every few months.. that's why I have so many old snapshots
08:59:04LloreanIt's very very very likely NOTHING to do with any part of the install process.
08:59:06DaRoosllorean : gotcha.
08:59:34DaRooswell, the "bootloader" is the latest "build" we download then, yes?
08:59:48LloreanThe bootloader is the file bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod
08:59:49*GodEater reads the latest "valley girl" english posts on the forums with slack-jawed disbelief
08:59:53DaRoosAh, gotcha.
08:59:59LloreanThe 'build' is Rockbox
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09:00:26DaRoosI'm wondering if i should try the old method with the old bootloader - or has the bootloader image NOT progressed over time?
09:00:40LloreanAll the bootloader does is moves Rockbox from the disk into RAM
09:00:55LloreanThe image you're using right now works for hundreds of other people just fine.
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09:01:16*GodEater still wants to know how big the offending audio file is
09:01:19DaRooshrmm, I do so believe you :)
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09:01:33LloreanYou can try to use the old method, but if it solves your problem, it just means that we're less likely to find out what the real problem was.
09:01:36DaRoosit's all kidns of mp3's god.. it doesn't amtter what mp3 file I play. Music, audiobooks, whatever
09:01:44LloreanYou may as well if you want to go through the hassle.
09:02:03LloreanIt could solve the problem, but it'd be really strange if it did, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it reemerge later.
09:02:14LloreanAs well, you'll need the newer bootloader version for when Dual Core support happens anyway
09:02:15amiconnLlorean: The bootloader also does some cop init stuff, so an old bootloader (which doesn't do this) might cause problems with newer rockbox builds
09:02:17DaRoosIf I use the latest method, how can I troubleshoot it now tho?
09:02:34GodEateramiconn speaks truth
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09:02:35Lloreanamiconn: It shouldn't cause it with current builds, as far as I'm aware, but will once the COP is implemented in-rockbox.
09:02:53Lloreanamiconn: At least, I haven't seen five thousand people asking why Rockbox doesn't work in the forums, yet.
09:02:56GodEaterCOP patch still hasn't been comited yet ?
09:03:01LloreanGodEater: Nup.
09:03:05GodEaterthought not
09:03:54dan_aGodEater: It's not stable for all targets yet. I suspect that once frequency scaling has been sorted out, the COP patch will be OK
09:03:55DaRoosthe "old" version of ipodpatcher I was using "ok" was 0.3
09:03:57brenton_I have a n00bish question: Do I need to re-transfer my music after installing rockbox on my Gigabeat?
09:04:24w1ll14m|workgood morning all ;)
09:04:30Bagderbrenton_: isn't that mentioned in the manual?
09:04:52Lloreanbrenton_: Rockbox doesn't support .sat files
09:04:53brenton_I wasn't sure. :\ I'm only 13 pages in.
09:04:58GodEaterdoes the frequency scaling issue cause a complete lock up ? Or does it just generate choppy sound ?
09:05:17LloreanGodEater: Complete lockup, and often an Illegal Instruction message or similar, if I recall
09:05:23Bagderbrenton_: AFAIU, you must retransfer them since the OF keeps them in ".sat" files that Rockbox doesn't know of
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09:06:08*Llorean has never used the original firmware on his Gigabeat, nor installed the 'software' that came with it.
09:06:19brenton_Ahh. Ok. Well, I've already formatted it, but I was going to transfer the files before installing rockbox, before I went to sleep.
09:06:28*GodEater hopes to follow in Llorean's footsteps as soon as his Gigabeat arrives
09:06:34 Quit w1ll14m|work ("leaving")
09:06:36Lloreanbrenton_: You just need to copy them over in disk mode, and ROckbox can use 'em
09:06:43brenton_But, since rockbox doesn't recogonize .sat, I'm going to go ahead and g o to sleep.
09:06:45LloreanGodEater: I've decided that the Gigabeat is a rather solid Rockbox target.
09:06:52JdGordonmorning Bagder, re topic, the cvsmod/chlog- pages still point to cvs builds not svn
09:06:54brenton_And do it tommorow. :) Thanks everyone.
09:07:04GodEaterthat's the impression I got from listening in on the conversations in here
09:07:12GodEaterwhich is why I decided to get one
09:07:16BagderJdGordon: you mean the menu text, right?
09:07:17LloreanI do feel slightly unsettled to look at the audio thread and see 0% boost and 99mhz constantly.
09:07:20GodEaterit's going to live in the car
09:07:23JdGordonBagder: yeah
09:07:25 Quit brenton_ ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
09:07:46JdGordonBagder: and under the table
09:07:52JdGordon"Back to daily builds / CVS builds"
09:07:55LloreanGodEater: Honestly, the Gigabeat is what I'd recommend to someone looking for an headphones-portable-use HD based player right now, since they're about the same price as H120s and easier to find.
09:07:57Bagderah yes
09:08:17*GodEater guards his H140 jealously
09:08:36LloreanMy H120 is still my favorite player.
09:08:46GodEaterheh - although I bought mine when they still came on the shelves in the local electronics store and weren't hard to find at all
09:09:05GodEatershame iriver discontinued them
09:09:13JdGordonBagder: also
09:09:20GodEaterthey're a sound ('scuse pun) piece of kit
09:09:34BagderJdGordon: yeah, all sorts of pages still have the older menu
09:09:43BagderI don't really consider that due to the transition
09:09:47JdGordonthe credits one points into cvsmod.cgi
09:09:51Bagderbut merely due to our crappy makefiles on the site
09:10:24JdGordonviewcvs.cgi i mean
09:12:21*amiconn wonders who made those crappy Makefiles ;)
09:12:57*Bagder blames Zagor and his liking of wildcards in makefiles... :-)
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09:15:48BagderJdGordon: how did you even find the docs/credits.html link?
09:16:06BagderI fixed it now, but nothing should link there
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09:30:13 Quit combrains ("Rockbox Rocks :)")
09:36:41aliaskJust picked up a sansa c240, looks like a good mi4 target.
09:37:09Bagderaliask: yeah, we had a good poke on that this (euro) night
09:37:11aliaskIf that thing with austriamicrosystems comes through at least.
09:37:22Bagderit even has a 3514
09:37:39aliaskIs that the same as the e200?
09:37:52Bagderno, the e200 has that "built-in" into the PP chip
09:38:13Bagderbut yeah, its the same AS3514
09:38:27aliaskI'm having trouble identifying the CPU in it (from the anythingbutipod page)
09:38:36Bagderwe have as well
09:38:43Bagderbut the mi4 mentions PP5022
09:38:50Bagderjust like the e200 mi4 does
09:39:06aliaskPortalPlayer have started hiding the markings on their chips I think
09:39:20aliaskI think they did it in the newer ipods.
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09:39:44BagderI take it you saw my initial take at a wiki page for the c200
09:39:53aliaskJust this second
09:40:23Bagderit could run the e200 bootloader, but the lcd got all black ;-)
09:40:38aliaskFunny that :)
09:41:18aliaskIt's actually a birthday gift for my mum, so I won't be able to poke around on it too much for at least a week :P
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09:42:12BagderI have the mi4 on the mi4 page and the TEA key is in the latest mi4code
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09:44:05JdGordonBagder: the wiki links to it
09:44:52aliaskHey there Jd, how're things?
09:45:08JdGordonnot bad, you?
09:45:20aliaskPretty good, enrolled at monash yesterday
09:45:38JdGordoncongrats, which campass?
09:45:51aliaskWhich are you at?
09:45:52JdGordonnice, we'll get a beer when semester starts
09:46:04JdGordonclayton, one subject a week at caulfield tho :(
09:46:15aliaskAh that sucks, at least you dont live too far from it.
09:46:39JdGordonfortunatly i wont need to drive from one to the other and back...
09:46:52aliaskYeah that'd suck
09:46:54JdGordonwhat course you get into?
09:47:06aliaskStraight engineering
09:47:35JdGordondo you know which stream you want to get into for 2nd year?
09:47:52aliaskNope, one of the reasons I went to monash, they have a general 1st year
09:48:07aliaskI'm thinking maybe electrical, possibly materials or chemical.
09:48:35scorche...or chemical
09:48:39aliaskI'm doing a few EE courses this year at least so hopefully I'll pick up some useful stuff.
09:48:43JdGordonelectrical is horrible, but out of those 3 its definatly the best
09:48:54aliaskWhy do you say horrible?
09:49:04JdGordoncoz its maths and physics which i cant stand
09:49:43aliask1301 isn't on the first year selection
09:49:50scorcheif i went into EE or ME, i would have an instant job making all sorts of fun robotics
09:50:02aliaskSee that sounds cool
09:50:20JdGordon1301 was core when i went torugh... i kniow they fiddled with the core, but i would assume thats a prereq for EE
09:50:21aliaskWhat did you do scorche?
09:50:35 Part kaaloo
09:50:39aliaskWhat's the name of it, it might have changed number
09:50:56JdGordonelectrical engineering :p
09:51:10aliaskscorche: Well, at least you meet my minimum standard of living, you have the internet :)
09:51:15aliaskAnyway, afk dinner
09:57:31*Llorean wishes that Flyspray had a "split" function like the forums.
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10:14:46webguest20Hehehe. There's a long thread in the UI forum about the 'left to WPS' feature. It's not implemented because it's not very consistent and because it would increase code size. And that despite of the fact that many voted for it. And then some obscure features (like the ~ in settings names) - which also increase code size - are implemented 'just so.' Where is the logic/consistency? :-)
10:15:07Lloreanwebguest20: That one immediately got unimplemented, if you notice.
10:15:40LloreanIt also added a NEW feature, rather than making a second button do the exact same thing as a button already did, anyway.
10:15:59LloreanSo, there's the logic for you, if you need it.
10:16:33JdGordonalso, everyone who has commit access is dead against that option :p
10:16:46LloreanThere might be one or two for it.
10:16:51LloreanI haven't polled them all.
10:17:30sneakumsA foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.
10:17:50Lloreansneakums: Is that relevant?
10:19:40sneakumsJust a roundabout way of remarking that rockbox development doesn't let rigid consistency trump the merit of individual choices.
10:19:45tanqemerson or thoreau... i can't remmeber which
10:20:08sneakumsemerson, iirc
10:20:22Lloreansneakums: There are some cases of rampant consistency though, but it's usually well backed up.
10:20:29webguest20Llorean: what I meant is that code size doesn't seem to play a role when deciding whether a feature should be implemented
10:20:35midkayJdGordon: why'd you remove it!!
10:20:46sneakumscode size is one factor
10:20:55sneakumsif it were the only factor, rockbox would have zero lines of code and do nothing
10:21:01JdGordonmidkay: because, Llorean came up with an equally as good option
10:21:12JdGordon.. which didnt incur the code soze cost
10:21:22midkayoh. haha.
10:21:34midkayi just read the first like 4 words of your 10-word-or-so commit message.
10:21:40midkay*feels dumb*
10:22:16Lloreanmidkay: Yeah, I came up with a solution that was essentially one line of code. ;)
10:22:27Lloreanwebguest20: Code size VS what it adds is the issue.
10:22:57Lloreanwebguest20: When "what it adds" is "Making the UI inconsistent with the desired scheme, and makes a button do something there's already a button for" it really doesn't add much positive for any code size
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10:23:31midkayLlorean: pretty good solution indeed. :)
10:23:40midkaytime for bed, night.
10:23:45 Quit dan_a ()
10:24:23^BeN^hey alll
10:24:26Lloreanmidkay: Every now and then I have a good idea. With the amount of rubbish I spout it has to happen eventually.
10:24:56midkayyou silly.. :)
10:25:04*midkay really leaves this time.
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10:26:30*Paprica says hey :)
10:26:32Lloreanwebguest20: Anyway, when you consider the fact that we've solved both the "Resume on startup can cause hearing damage for people who forget to set the volume" problem with just a single line of code, as well as introducing a lot of useful functionality, I'd say this feature fits very well with the size vs added functionality ratio.
10:27:12webguest20Llorean: but if there's an upper bound on size (because of some devices) then, at some point, features should be rejected regardless of whether/how useful they are
10:27:23Lloreanwebguest20: We've already past the upper bound.
10:27:34LloreanThere's no fixed limit, but there is a goal.
10:27:45LloreanFeatures can be added if they're considered to be worth enough vs the size cost.
10:27:54GodEaterand there's always the option of removing less well loved features in order to get new ones in
10:28:14 Nick linuxstb__ is now known as linuxstb (
10:28:19LloreanBut "making a button do something another button already does" doesn't technically *add* anything.
10:28:29webguest20Llorean: there's no limit? And waht about the old archos?
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10:28:44LloreanRombox doesn't work on it any more, because we've gone past that size.
10:28:51JdGordonis this the request to make left go back to the wps if your in the root dir? or top level of the menu?
10:28:52LloreanThat's the goal
10:28:57JdGordonor is there more to it?
10:29:01LloreanJdGordon: Left-to-WPS
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10:29:17JdGordonfrom anywhere in the tree/menu?
10:29:20Lloreanwebguest20: The goal is to get Rombox working again, but if it becomes necessary to say 'it will never work again' that can happen.
10:29:22LloreanJdGordon: Root
10:29:42bluebrotherwhy left-to-wps?
10:29:57Lloreanbluebrother: Because people can't be bothered to press the play button to get to the WPS.
10:29:58webguest20JdGordon: only when music is playing. Since then the file browser is sort of like of menu. Which is left by pressing LEFT (pun intended)
10:30:06bluebrotherdoesn't make sense to me ... better use play-to-wps from the menu
10:30:18Lloreanwebguest20: The thing is, the filetree is NOT a menu. You don't leave it. It's the lowest level.
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10:30:45bluebrotherand make the menu close with the same button that opens it, not left.
10:31:00JdGordonLlorean: I hate to say it... but to do his in the tree adds 2 lines of code
10:31:14webguest20Llorean: here we go again :-) We'd better stop it now
10:31:14JdGordonwell... 4, but two are just { and }
10:31:48bluebrotherJdGordon: can't you just omit the { }? :)
10:31:57webguest20JdGordon: you'll need more lines since there must be an option to activate this.
10:32:00JdGordonwebguest20: is there a patch in the thread?
10:32:12JdGordonbluebrother: haha no
10:32:26LloreanJdGordon: Two lines of code to repeat the functionality of the play button though
10:32:34Mikachuwhy does everything need an option?
10:32:35LloreanTwo lines that also break the existing screen hierarchy
10:32:42webguest20JdGordon: I don't know but I guess there's a patch in FS.
10:32:48*JdGordon not taking sides..
10:32:50LloreanBasically, "two lines to do something the core devs are likely to be against even if it cost 0 lines"
10:32:52bluebrotheroh, so the two lines are inside of the brackets? ;-)
10:32:57JdGordonjust saying it could feasibly be done in almost no code
10:33:03JdGordonbluebrother: yes
10:33:41LloreanYeah, it can be done with little code.
10:33:45LloreanBut it HAS to have an option.
10:33:52bluebrotherI'd love to have the menu more consitent ...
10:33:54LloreanBecause left-to-wps makes it much more difficult for blind users.
10:34:13JdGordonbluebrother: im working on the menu now... it will have play to go to wps like the tree
10:34:13webguest20Mikachu: because some people (e.g. visually impaired) wouldn't like it at all
10:34:20*bluebrother votes against left-to-wps
10:34:31webguest20Ok, EOT for me
10:34:33markunwebguest20: wouldn't a root menu be more logical then the WPS at the root?
10:34:34bluebrothernice ...
10:35:14JdGordonmarkun: you mean a menu with the wps, tre, menu, rec screen, fm as options?
10:35:19markunJdGordon: yes
10:35:25markunand settings
10:35:29webguest20markun: EOT, request rejected :-)
10:35:40markunwebguest20: it's not really a request :)
10:35:47markunas I can code it myself
10:35:58JdGordonthat sound reasonable...
10:36:18bluebrotherwhile not having such a root menu looks a bit strange at the fist look I like it better to control that stuff using buttons and not having one
10:36:31Lloreanmarkun: The general idea right now is that Rockbox is filetree based, and the tree is the lowest level.
10:36:42JdGordonhighest level...
10:36:51markunWe've talked about it a few times. I think amiconn was ok if we made it possible to go to one of the items by default (like we do with the recording screen already)
10:36:59JdGordonyou go down into the options and other screens :p
10:37:13LloreanJdGordon: The other screens are on top of the filetree, that's why you can see them, and not it since it's beneath. :-P
10:37:22markunLlorean: I'll try to find the logs then
10:37:31bluebrotherwe should indeed remove the recording screen at startup and replace it with a arbitrary screen at startup option
10:37:32JdGordonits coz your in the northern emisphere :D its all backwards
10:37:51*Mikachu throws a snowball at JdGordon
10:38:10JdGordon... it melts before hitting me
10:38:17*bluebrother is also in the northern hemisphere and all looks the right way around
10:38:22Lloreanbluebrother: I can agree with that one. And remove "Resume on Startup" since that's basically "WPS"
10:38:53bluebrotherhaven't thought of that, but that's logical. Setting Resume on startup is wps :)
10:38:55webguest20bluebrother: IIRC there's a patch for this in FS
10:39:00Bagderwe should "flatten" the code for the screens first
10:39:20bluebrotherwebguest20: I know, but that's not in the core ;-)
10:39:21LloreanStill, I think there should be a "final" screen that Left takes you to.
10:39:26LloreanAnd it should be a screen upon which Left does nothing.
10:39:27Mikachuas long as you don't remove the functionality to resume at startup
10:39:47LloreanMikachu: Just choosing "WPS" as your startup screen would include resuming, I should hope, since you shouldn't see WPS without playback
10:39:47JdGordonBagder: how do you mean flatten?
10:40:02bluebrothersomething like "startup screen": wps (resume playback)
10:40:21BagderJdGordon: basically going to all screens from the same switch(), so that going to another means setting a variable and returning to the loop
10:40:29JdGordonah, yes
10:40:30webguest20bluebrother: what do you mean by 'core'?
10:40:50Bagderthen we could jump between any two screens with no fuss
10:40:53JdGordonatm dirbrowse() handles the whole thing... thats the place to start hacking.. whoever is up for it :p
10:40:55bluebrotherbtw, I played around with the runtime screen on the weekend as I always was annoyed it doesn't show as much information as possible
10:40:59Mikachuwebguest20: not in a plugin
10:41:00bluebrotherin terms of space
10:41:24JdGordonbluebrother: what else would you like on the screen?
10:41:26LloreanEven with flattened code, you still need a "final" screen. With left-to-wps, you'll always have the issue for blind users.
10:41:27bluebrotherthe only problem when showing all is that you can't reset the values using select.
10:42:15bluebrotherJdGordon: I modified the screen to better adapt to multi screen players and show both top time and current time if there is enough room
10:42:20webguest20Mikachu: why should that be in a plugin? IIRC, the patch did replace two options (resume/record on startup) with just one
10:42:23JdGordonbluebrother: is that screen spoken at all?
10:42:30Mikachuwebguest20: i was just explaining what core means
10:42:31bluebrotherI don't think so
10:42:38bluebrotherbut I haven't tried
10:43:08JdGordonmaybe if its spoken, both options could be put in a list (with height 2), and pressing off on the selected item resets it..
10:43:09markunLlorean: wouldn't the root menu be the final screen?
10:43:21JdGordonnice and easy, very painful for the lind tho if its not spoken
10:43:46Lloreanmarkun: A root menu would work fine. It just needs to be, in my opinion, as screen where "Left" doesn't do anything. A stopping point, essentially.
10:44:01*JdGordon likes the idea of a start screen... but it needs a catchy line for the title :p
10:44:04bluebrotherI tried using gui_synclist but failed to regularly update the current time entry
10:44:07JdGordon"welcome to rockbox" is lame
10:44:22bluebrother"now rock this box" :P
10:44:28markunLlorean: sorry, I fail to see what the problem is. Are you proposing some other screen could be the root as well?
10:44:45Lloreanmarkun: There's a large population that wants the WPS to be the leftmost screen.
10:44:51LloreanWhich is what sparked this whole discussion.
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10:45:22markunLlorean: ok, I get it now
10:45:38markunand menu would bring you to the 'root' menu then from the WPS?
10:46:03LloreanWell, right now, all they want is left to go to WPS from the filetree.
10:46:21Bagder... new svn version is released
10:46:30linuxstbIMO, it doesn't make sense for the WPS to be the left-most screen because it's only displayed when music is playing - unless that's changed of course.
10:46:35bluebrotherI still think we should make it logical, not the way everyone expects it because its unlogical in about all other players
10:46:51markunLlorean: I could ask in the thread what they think about the root menu idea and if they still would want the WPS to be the root
10:47:19Lloreanmarkun: The argument for it is that Left is a lot easier to press than the Play button.
10:47:32LloreanOr whatever button "Resumes" playback
10:47:34markunw1ll14m|away: I see your idea got implemented after all :)
10:47:40JdGordonthe problem with a rot menu is that the play button would be used for it.. so its at least 2 presses to get from the tree to the wps, instead of one now
10:47:55Lloreanlinuxstb: Left would resume in the cases music is stopped, supposedly. =/
10:48:15bluebrotherBagder: I just noticed a "mailing list etiquette" link right below the "mailing lists" menu entry on the svn homepage. Maybe adding something to rb would be helpful too?
10:48:17markunJdGordon: yes, that's a drawback, but I think navigation would be much more consistent
10:48:38Bagderbluebrother: a good idea
10:49:12LloreanJdGordon: Why wouldn't Play still resume playback?
10:49:25LloreanYou could always get back to the root menu by pressing "Menu"
10:49:42JdGordonah, well thats true
10:50:41markunLlorean: do you think the items in the root menu should remeber their positions? ie if you go to the root from the filebrowser with MENU and you go back to the filebrower you will end up in the same dir or the root?
10:51:34JdGordonprobably remember
10:51:39JdGordonnot the menu tho...
10:51:50*JdGordon would like the plugin browser in the root menu also
10:52:04Lloreanmarkun: I think it's only important that the last place you were remember its position.
10:52:16markunJdGordon: yes, I don't think it belongs in the settings menu
10:52:21LloreanFrom anywhere "Menu" would summon the root menu screen, and pressing it again would banish it (in case you bumped it) restoring you to where you were
10:52:26amiconnLlorean: Left == resume would be highly illogical...
10:52:40Lloreanamiconn: I agree wholeheartedly. I just stated that it's what the left-to-wps hordes want
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10:52:59JdGordonLlorean: not so easy, menus cant remember their position.. without some trickery anyway
10:53:08markunmorning amiconn
10:54:07markunJdGordon: I don't think it will be too difficult
10:54:52JdGordonah, dw.. yeah, i just looked at my menu changes, and static'ing 3 3 variables would be enough to do it
10:54:54amiconnLlorean: Also, if you say Left would resume if music is stopped - what would happen if there is no resume position??
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10:55:14JdGordonamiconn: same as now "nothing lo resume"
10:55:21markunamiconn: they probably want a empty WPS screen then :)
10:55:31Mikachuwhile procrastinating screen
10:56:20webguest20I must chime in :-) IMHO, left-to-WPS should only work if music is playing. Since then the file browser is like a menu. If there's no playback, the file browser is the main screen. Left should NOT start playback.
10:56:43markunwebguest20: no, the root menu will be the main screen :)
10:57:05amiconnLeft to wps is illogical imo, and it makes navigation harder for the blind
10:57:27JdGordon... if this happens, please give the wps item a better name..
10:57:37amiconnwebguest20: With your approach, navigation structure would change depending on playback state
10:59:16safetydanamiconn, I haven't worked on langv2 cleanup lately, but I was just about to start looking at it again
10:59:37webguest20amiconn: yes. But it's the same when bringing up the menu. When the music is not playing, you go to the file browser when you're leaving the menu. And when it's playing, you go to the WPS.
11:00:13webguest20amiconn: and if the browser is called from the WPS I feel like calling a menu. That's my whole point.
11:00:16Lloreanwebguest20: Actually, that's not true
11:00:27Lloreanwebguest20: If you enter the menu from the filetree while music is playing, you return to the filetree
11:01:12markunJdGordon: what I also would like (but it will probably not be easy) is to be able to go to the root menu from a running plugin, add a few songs to the playlist and then go back..
11:01:15webguest20Llorean: and if from WPS while music is playing? Then you go to WPS.
11:01:42Lloreanwebguest20: Yes, because you called the menu from the WPS.
11:01:51amiconnwebguest20: That's not true. Leaving the menu always brings you back where you came from.
11:01:57amiconnThat's not a structure change
11:01:59LloreanThere is the filetree, then you call the WPS, then you call the Menu, so clearly each is on top of the one before.
11:02:12JdGordonmarkun: that is possible now... but the plugin needs to be changed to a tsr slightly
11:02:22Mikachuit's hard to guess that the wps is on top of the filetree from just using rockbox
11:02:24Mikachuit could just as well be on the side
11:02:51Bagderbluebrother: now check the top of the rockbox mailing list page
11:03:05markunYes, I also visualise the WPS and filetree as running side by side
11:03:35webguest20Ok, I see. But I still feel like calling menu when I bring up the file browser from WPS. I have to change my mind.
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11:03:51JdGordonwe win :D
11:03:59LloreanI don't even know what that last sentence meant...
11:04:01scorchewhat's new?
11:04:23markunscorche: just the same old discussions :)
11:04:34scorcheyeah....what's new...
11:04:58scorchenow we just need someone to bring up malloc
11:05:00markundepends on how long you have been away
11:05:08linuxstbI've never liked the "select" button exiting the WPS back to the file browser though - which is why I don't think people think of it as exiting.
11:05:09scorcheabout 5 days?
11:05:20markunlinuxstb: it doesn't on the gigabeat :)
11:05:30Mikachuthere's not many others to choose from on the ipod
11:05:38markunthere we have 1 button to switch between WPS and filebrowser
11:05:43linuxstbIt's NAVI on the irivers IIRC.
11:05:50markunselect is used for pause in the WPS
11:06:45LloreanJdGordon: Responded in the thread.
11:06:59JdGordonyour quick :p
11:07:42JdGordonmay as well bring the discussion here..
11:07:44amiconnlinuxstb: It's not on the archos recorders and player either :P
11:07:57linuxstbSo it's just the h1x0 and ipods...
11:08:02linuxstb(and h3x0)
11:08:05JdGordonanyone apposed to a defaults.cfg being loaded if config.cfg is not present... or a settings reset was called ?
11:08:10amiconnThey use ON to toggle between browser and wps
11:08:28linuxstbSo who chose NAVI for the irivers?
11:08:30tanqhow long should rockbox take to create a database for 30+gig of music
11:08:35 Quit aliask ("Chatzilla 0.9.76 [Firefox]")
11:08:47LloreanBasically, here's the pitch:
11:09:02tanqever since I tried to intialize the database it has never worked.. it always says not ready.
11:09:16linuxstbtanq: Have you shutdown and restarted?
11:09:19LloreanWhen Rockbox is first booted, if config.cfg does not exist it loads defaults.cfg
11:09:21tanqseveral times..
11:09:25Lloreandefaults.cfg is also loaded if settings are cleared
11:09:43linuxstbSo what if a user breaks their default.cfg ?
11:09:45LloreanThis allows easy-to-package target-specific defaults, as well as a user being able to store a "known good" setting in case they choose to clear settings later, so that a clear isn't a full wipe
11:09:56LinusNi like it
11:09:59LloreanIf default.cfg is removed, you get the current hard-coded non-target-specific defaults
11:10:08Mikachuwhat if the default.cfg exists but gives a bad config?
11:10:18linuxstbBut isn't the ability to load any .cfg file good enough for users restoring "known good" settings?
11:10:31 Part norbusan
11:10:35Lloreanlinuxstb: Well, it's more or less meant to be an easy method to package target-specific settings.
11:10:40LloreanIt just has an added bonus of that.
11:10:58linuxstbI can't see what target-specific settings we would want, apart from font.
11:11:10amiconnWhy default.cfg when we need built-in defaults anyway?
11:11:11linuxstbAnd then if the user breaks default.cfg, they lose the target-specific defaults.
11:12:21amiconnI don't see why the built-in defaults can't be target specific
11:12:26LloreanThey can be.
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11:12:49JdGordonLlorean: doing this would incur a disk spinup if settings are reset...
11:12:56JdGordonunless dircache is on
11:12:59LloreanI just kinda liked the idea of packaging them separate and giving the user the option to have settings they can reset to.
11:13:14LloreanJdGordon: I'd wager 99% of resets occur at bootup
11:13:23linuxstbBut a user has always been able to save settings to a .cfg for restoring to.
11:13:36JdGordonthen defaults.cfg should only be run at boot, and not a regulr reset
11:13:48LloreanI wouldn't mind that.
11:14:00Mikachuit's at boot up you would want to reset to hardcoded settings, if default.cfg is broken
11:14:03LloreanBut then really a user *can* just click a .cfg file
11:14:20linuxstbIt just seems to be getting too complex - we have the "real" config.cfg, a file for persistent settings, and now a default cfg, plus the built-in defaults...
11:14:37Lloreanlinuxstb: I came up with the idea before suggesting fixed.cfg
11:14:53LloreanReally it doesn't have too much use.
11:15:17JdGordonboth are fairly obscure features :p
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11:16:04LloreanHonestly, now that it's been talked about, it's one of my ideas I'm not so much in favour of. :)
11:16:21linuxstbI still prefer the suggestion of a max_volume_on_boot setting, as that's the only setting people have asked to be persistent, and means users can set it easily via the UI, rather than editing a text file.
11:16:25LloreanAlso, I've a headache after trying to explain the concept of keeping patches to a single task to FS #6095
11:16:38*Bagder agress on the max_volume_on_boot setting
11:16:48LloreanBagder: The fixed.cfg covers that though.
11:17:01linuxstbYes, but inconveniently.
11:17:03Bagderyeah, but not with a gui
11:17:05LloreanThat's true.
11:17:21Bagderand not with a max, it would be a fixed
11:17:29LloreanI remember someone asking about having shuffle be able to have a default boot setting as well.
11:17:34LloreanAnd I think the idle poweroff.
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11:18:27linuxstbI'm not against having a fixed.cfg, but I don't think it's a nice solution for the more commonly requested max volume.
11:18:40LloreanI don't think it's an ideal solution.
11:19:21JdGordoni think its cleaner than actually adding the code to handle a boot volume setting
11:19:24LloreanYou could just have a "Volume on Boot" option rather than 'max' and save that *to* fixed.cfg
11:19:46Mikachuthat if anything sounds like a hack
11:19:59JdGordonvery much so
11:20:08tucozbluebrother: i do not have a patch at hand, but what do you think about changing the 'built with \LaTeX' to either 'built with 'pdf\LaTeX' or '\TeX4ht' depending on pdf/html.
11:20:14LloreanI've a headache and it's late, be nice. :-P
11:20:14safetydanyo, Bagder, how come this snippet doesn't work? It just results in $feat on the command line to genlang?
11:20:59tucozbluebrother: as strictly speaking, the manual is not built wit \LaTeX
11:21:42Bagdersafetydan: try adding a \ on the "done;" line so that they are executed in the same shell context
11:21:43bluebrothertucoz: strictly speaking you are right. Don't know if there is a \TeX4ht macro ...
11:22:04bluebrotherbut feel free to adjust it. I just wanted to have the build version somewhere
11:22:13Bagder... but you then need to change the $(call) thing too I guess
11:23:08tucozbluebrother: there isn't a \TeX4ht macro, but there is a \TeX one. I'll try it out when i get home.
11:23:32bluebrotherseems my home machine broke down again, so I can't test either
11:23:48bluebrotherdamn hardware
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11:25:18tucoztalk to you later
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11:26:48safetydanBagder, doesn't quite work
11:26:51safetydan/bin/sh: @perl: not found
11:27:36Bagdersafetydan: try it like this:
11:29:39Lloreanbluebrother: If my understanding of what you're talking about is correct, simply finishing the move of into /.rockbox solves that anyway
11:30:40safetydanBagder, seems to work. I'll do some more testing.
11:32:45linuxstbbluebrother: I would possibly prefer the default file view setting to be "all files" - to try to make it clearer to newcomers that they are in a file browser.
11:33:08linuxstbEspecially as lots of the newer targets hide music in hidden/system folders.
11:34:26GodEateryes - that "Where's all my music gone?" question is getting fairly common
11:34:55GodEaterclosely followed by "Why isn't rockbox working?" from the users presented with the empty filetree
11:36:51JdGordonbluebrother: your revision number script not working?
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11:41:00ZagorI think the whole "wps is root" misunderstanding could be mitigated by adding a drawing to the 3.1.5 section of the manual.
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11:42:06JdGordonna.... noone reads the manual...
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11:42:13bluebrotherJdGordon: it should work, but it depends on the way the build is made ...
11:42:25JdGordonthey certainly dont open it before starting rockbox for the first time
11:42:50ZagorJdGordon: then we'll add it as a banner on every forum page :)
11:42:50bluebrotherBagder: how are the daily build run? From a clean svn checkout? Seems to have problems with svnversion.hs
11:43:40*scorche loathes the "i see contacts, calendars, etc page and rockbox doesnt do anything when i click it! plz hlp!" posts
11:44:02bluebrotherif not, adding a file docs/VERSION with the only text "daily" should help marking it clearly as daily build
11:44:26linuxstbscorche: So what do you think about chaniging the default view to "all files" ? At least then they'll see .rockbox and rockbox.ipod (as well as iPod_Control).
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11:44:37ZagorI still think it'd help a lot of people though. Many people just browse the manual and don't read about the basic concepts.
11:44:44ZagorAlso, we'd have a good rtfm link
11:44:53scorchelinuxstb: honestly, i dont think it will make a difference
11:45:16linuxstbSadly you may be right...
11:45:17scorchealthough, it could clear up some other beginning questions people have..
11:45:36bluebrotherah, reminds me: the playlist catalog always shows file extensions, even if the choosen view doesn't shows them
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11:48:17JdGordonthe root menu is the easiest solution to all these problems
11:48:19*linuxstb remembers the "show path" option in the file browser, and thinks this should show something in the root - and be on by default.
11:49:04bluebrotherjust show "/" in the root?
11:49:40JdGordonsomething more would be nicer...
11:49:43linuxstbI was thinking something like "<Root Folder>"
11:49:55ZagorJdGordon: why would a root menu help? people will likely still think wps is the "normal" display and the root menu is just another menu
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11:50:18Mikachuif you do, please say directory instead of folder :)
11:50:37linuxstbWe're trying to help newcomers here...
11:50:43safetydanHow many bytes are we from rombox working?
11:50:45JdGordonZagor: umm... well.. hmm... maybe not
11:50:55JdGordonsafetydan: 30k iirc
11:51:21safetydanGuess 200 bytes isn't anywhere near enough then
11:51:30Zagorpersonally I think a clear illustration helps more than a root menu
11:51:30JdGordonno, 2800
11:51:38JdGordonUCLPACK rombox
11:51:39JdGordonOutput is 2892 bytes larger than max (233456)
11:52:04scorchefor which target though?
11:52:13Mikachuyou're not including the startup logo .bmp in rombox right?
11:52:24linuxstbYes, the logo's included.
11:52:32amiconnJdGordon: Not 30k
11:52:41scorchehmph...does FM recorder even show a xxxx bytes larger then max?
11:52:44Mikachuisn't that a bit silly if there's a size constraint?
11:52:51amiconn3K on plain recorder, and iirc ~10K on fm/v2
11:53:01scorcheamiconn: he meant 3.0k, im sure ;)
11:53:07linuxstbMikachu: It's only 1-bit mono.
11:53:08markunlinuxstb: I think NAVI on the irivers was chosen because that's what the OF used
11:53:23*JdGordon got confuslsed... 30kb is before compression is needed
11:53:23Mikachuah, only a kilobyte or so then
11:53:24markunbut we shouldn't have :)
11:53:38Mikachuthe nano logo is 28kB
11:53:41amiconnscorche: No it doesn't show this for fm/v2, because the linker errors out before
11:53:55amiconnMikachu: Less than a kilobyte
11:54:16amiconnA full-screen bitmap on archos is 896 bytes - and the logo isn't fullscreen
11:54:55*JdGordon gone
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12:00:19safetydanwe could also gain 256 bytes back if we change the cut/copy/paste to work the way bluebrother suggested weeks ago
12:00:32safetydanat least I think I was bluebrother anyway
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12:03:13safetydanUCLPACK rombox
12:03:14safetydanOutput is 2120 bytes larger than max (233456)
12:03:16safetydangetting there
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12:03:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:04:17amiconnsafetydan: A little less than 10K on fm/v2
12:04:47amiconn(and now I know the limit where the linker itself starts complaining)
12:05:36amiconnThe linker will complain if already the section start is out of bounds, but not if only the end spills over
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12:06:10amiconnThe .iramcopy section is 3280 bytes (on fm/v2 and v1), so that's the limit
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12:07:11Bagderbluebrother: yes, the daily builds run in a plain svn updated repo
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12:08:18Bagderhm, no I have symlinks to the dirs from the dir where the script runs
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12:13:02bluebrotherBagder: maybe add docs/VERSION and simply put "daily" in that file? Then the version information will get "daily-<YYMMDD>"
12:13:15SoapI see we had a visitor mention the Japan Harvest (black diamond) edition of Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon. Should rockbox handle the de-emphasis needed for such early CDs?
12:13:46Bagderbluebrother: I'd rather see the rev number there too, I'll try to make something work
12:14:14Zagorwhy must the daily look different from the bleeding anyway?
12:14:30BagderI see no reason
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12:14:57bluebrotherI don't see a reason, but I though maybe that would be nice to indicate it as daily.
12:15:02Bagderbut the svn builds are built within a "real" svn checked-out source root, while the dailies are not
12:15:04preglowSoap: what, for mp3s, you mean?
12:15:28Soapmp3s / FLACs, whatever format, yes.
12:15:43Soapfiles created from early CDs
12:16:11preglowwell, how would we know they need deemphasis?
12:16:11markunSoap: I think the DAC in the irivers had an option to use deemphasis
12:16:16Soapor would that ammount to a multi-band software EQ?
12:16:17preglowafaik, only mp3 can flag that it is needed
12:16:36preglowdeemphasis is a pretty simple 2nd order iir filter, afaik
12:16:43Soappreglow: not that rockbox would do it automaticly, but a user switch.
12:16:44preglowcomparable to one eq band
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12:17:02Mikachui thought the daily builds just copied the latest svn build of the day
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12:17:22BagderMikachu: nopes
12:17:39Bagderalthough we should perhaps consider doing that instead
12:18:23Bagderalthough building on a single host makes some things a bit more controlled
12:18:27Zagorhow about the best of the latest builds?
12:18:39Zagoras measured by the build table
12:18:57BagderI don't think the score is a good way to indicate good builds
12:19:32preglowit sure isn't
12:19:42Soapcue sheets can support a flag called "pre" which labels a track as having preemphasis.
12:19:56Zagorit would at least avoid making daily builds out of someones "oops" commit
12:20:09preglowSoap: yes
12:20:24BagderZagor: but would make lots of more tricky logic for the script
12:20:54Zagorwould it?
12:21:08Bagderyes, for example they are built on different hosts
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12:21:26Bagderand the score isn't stored anywhere but only kept in a html table
12:21:33linuxstbSoap: It seems flac stores the pre-emphasis bit in the CUESHEET metadata block - which Rockbox doesn't read (but obviously could).
12:21:50preglowdoing a quick google for filter specifics, but can't find any
12:21:55Zagorwell *that* isn't too hard to change. just make a score<rev>.txt in the output dir or something
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12:22:45Bagderyes, sure but I still rather not go in that direction
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12:23:16ZagorI can understand that. Lots of fuss for something that's not really a problem we have.
12:24:09tanqWhere is the database structure documented?
12:24:25markunBagder: what should the diff show when you change the property of a dir with svn?
12:24:39Bagdernothing I think
12:24:42tanqi'm not having any luck so i figured i'd create one and copy it to my ipod
12:25:00markunalso, I don't think it should trigger a new compile round
12:25:12Bagdertanq: try tools/
12:25:23linuxstbOr tools/database.c
12:25:31Bagdermarkun: I know, lots of things shouldn't but still does
12:25:45markunBagder: ok, sorry :)
12:25:55Bagder:-) no worries
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12:26:11Zagordoes a prop change create a new revision?
12:26:25BagderI'll welcome a script that detects changes to trigger new builds
12:26:39Bagderthat excludes property changes and certain dirs
12:27:01Bagderatm, a new revision will trigger a rebuild
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12:27:22iCAPSanyone alive ?
12:28:09iCAPScan u help me please?
12:28:25iCAPSi have an ibm thinkpad with an hitachi hdd
12:28:32iCAPSand i cannot unlock it
12:28:33Bagderwelcome to #rockbox
12:28:37Bagderwe speak rockbox here
12:28:39habas seen as in wiki, arm-elf-gcc would be version 4.0.2 Isnt't there a more recent one ?
12:28:56Bagderhab: 4.0.3 is what builds
12:29:01markuniCAPS: you are not the first one to come here with that question
12:29:13markunbut I don't think many people here can help
12:29:14iCAPSyeah i know ...
12:29:15linuxstbhab: With gcc, more recent doesn't always mean better.
12:29:44iCAPSim now on the laptop im staying with Suse Live 9.1
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12:30:20BagderiCAPS: that is sooo out of topic for this channel
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12:32:20pondlifeBagder: As per the channel topic - would it be good to put the SVN revision into the updates table? And make the filenames use the same size font as the other columns?
12:32:58Bagderwe decided the rev wasn't really desired in the table. and the filenames are smaller to fit better
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12:33:45Bagderyou can still see the rev on the diff links by reading the url they poitn to
12:34:27pondlifeThe wiki pages still refer to CVS build on the left hand menu...
12:34:51Bagderpondlife: then press 'refresh cache'
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12:35:08pondlifeIt's not my cache
12:35:21Mikachuhe didn't mean your cache either
12:35:23Bagderthe link in the bottom of each wiki page
12:35:58Mikachumaybe you should run that for the whole wiki on the server
12:36:13Bagderyeah, Zagor do you know how/if that can be done?
12:36:19pondlifeOK, what about
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12:36:57jbahey gang
12:37:01jbai've been away a whi;e
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12:37:38markunhi jba
12:37:57pondlife...and finally
12:38:20jbahi markun how goes?
12:39:06markunjba: life's still a bit chaotic, but I'm getting used to Paris a bit now
12:40:06jbasame for me at the new job
12:40:14MikachuBagder: you could grab a list of links from and replace view with fresh, then access all of them
12:40:20jbai saw a couple of commits from you recently?
12:40:25Mikachuwhich i guess would be better to do locally
12:42:25markunjba: yes, I thought I would be unable to work from here, but I'm spending more time in #rockbox then ever :)
12:42:48jbaso JdGordon are those settings changes stablized now?
12:42:55jbamarkun, what you working on?
12:43:35jbai've noticed that large trying to scroll through an 800 song database created playlist hangs my gigabeat, alot
12:43:57markunjba: good to know
12:44:10pondlifeI'm trying to see how much current the Iriver H340 OF draws for USB charging. Anyone know how to get USB charging and connection at the same time in the OF?
12:45:16safetydanWell after just a bit of poking, recorder is on 1828 bytes from having a working rombox
12:45:22pondlifeIt draws ~100mA when connected, with "USB charging" disabled...
12:46:05markunjba: when font caching is used it takes a lot more CPU to print a line of text
12:46:23markunmaybe we can optimize it. You are not the first person to have problems with it.
12:46:27jbamarkun, i don't know
12:46:53Mikachuaren't caches usually meant to make things faster?
12:46:59jbai think it's cause the disk is doing some disk access before i start to scroll, then when i scroll it locks with the disc access icon on, and the playlist showing
12:46:59Zagorwe could simply clear the cache. that would get rid of the old/wrong pages
12:47:01jbai have to hard reboot to fix it
12:47:15LinusNZagor: already done
12:47:16markunMikachu: this cache is only used to reduce memory consumption
12:47:24ZagorI have to go out sleepwalking a bit. bbl.
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12:47:32jbamarkun, have noticed also the next button takes a while to respond
12:47:38jbasometimes as much as 1 second
12:47:42markunjba: ah, the skips don't go away?
12:47:43jbaor has that been fixed in the last week
12:48:04MikachuLinusN: that Index link is pretty slow to refresh cache
12:48:10jbai have beep on, and i hit next, and asecond later i hear a beep and it cross fades out
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12:48:44LinusNMikachu: i can imagine that
12:48:51markunjba: what happens with crossfade disabled?
12:48:54MikachuNumber of topics: 1199
12:49:11jbai can't listen to music with crossfade disabled :)
12:49:11LinusNwe should really have a Wiki cleanup week
12:49:18jbabut I'll try without for a week or so
12:49:20Mikachuit indexes all users as well...
12:49:32Mikachui was just thinking maybe it's a bit of a DoS if someone sits and clicks the refresh link
12:50:10Bagderit is
12:50:38Bagderwhich is why we deny search bots to use the refresh ;-)
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12:54:50Mikachui don't know if the page itself is that much more useful than the one with just the page titles
12:55:02Mikachu(which is much faster to refresh)
12:56:06iwantanimacexactly what does pressing up or down on the View Audio Cache menu do? It seems to skip tracks or something... why?
12:57:15Mikachudebugging purposes?
12:57:34iwantanimacmore specifically...
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12:57:43Mikachuseeing what happens to the cache when you skip a track
12:58:05iwantanimac hm... that seems reasonable.
12:58:36safetydanIf someone wants to look in to lang string cleanup,
12:58:39safetydanand with that
12:58:40safetydangood night
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12:58:44Mikachuit takes too long to navigate there after skipping in the wps
12:59:18markunjba: no, just try it one time to see if it's related to the delayed beep
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13:19:24markunjba: can it be that your bootloader and rockbox are out of sync? Try to update both
13:19:38markunI have no problems with laggin playback and skipping
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13:24:23iwantanimacseeya guys.
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13:25:24markundoes anyone have a suggestion for a nice way to make rockbox not turn off my gigabeat when the battery is disconnected but the charger is inserted?
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13:38:02JdGordonany variable that is static const affects the bin size right?
13:39:25JdGordonamiconn: LinusN: others: ^ ?
13:39:45JdGordonthen I have an idea to shave rediculous amounts..
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13:40:10JdGordonthe STR() macro stores both the string and int... when only one is actually needed
13:40:33JdGordonchange that to only store the string, then add the 2 lines of code needed to get the int for the talking
13:41:24JdGordonif i knew how to get grep to skip a folder id figure out how often that macro is used
13:43:30GodEateranyone around to check the accuracy of the reply I've made here : ?
13:43:33bluebrotheruse find and then grep on that output?
13:43:53LinusNfind . -name "*.c" | xargs grep -i "STR("
13:44:13GodEateralthough why it's posted in the compiling forum is beyond me
13:44:17LinusN-i was quite unnecessary
13:44:47JdGordon184 times
13:45:19JdGordonoh poo... only 736 bytes then
13:45:25*JdGordon thought that macro was used far more often
13:46:10BagderGodEater: it is correct
13:46:34GodEaterI don't know enough about the Sansa port to answer his other question though
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13:46:56Bagderit sounds like a more generic bug
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13:49:49GodEatercan I ask what the reasoning behind providing a daily build for sansa is? It's very clearly not ready for public consumption.
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13:50:46GodEaterI only ask since my perception is that users see the daily builds as the list of "ready" platforms that we support
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13:51:17JdGordonwhy do we bother with the daily builds? why not just always keep the last svn build that worked for each target?
13:51:33GodEaterthat's the second time I forgot to call someone sir and they left....
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14:00:08preglowJdGordon: as long as they're only arbitrarily picked anyway, i don't know
14:00:22preglowcan't say i see much of a point
14:01:00Bagdermostly because they are built with the same gcc versions every day by the same server
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14:02:40preglowdoes that matter much? have we ever had problems with compilers making builds that don't work?
14:03:01Bagderyes, just a week ago or so we did
14:03:45Bagderbut I wouldn't say it matter _much_
14:03:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:11:01amiconnJdGordon: How would you find the id from the string?
14:11:23JdGordonthe P2ID macro
14:11:35JdGordonreturns -1 if its not a translated string
14:12:06JdGordondigging a bit, the menu uses this, its the options screen which needs both the pointer and the id
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14:30:28JdGordondamn the current menu system has heas of wasted code
14:31:21amiconnP2ID works different from what you might think
14:31:27JdGordonnothing uses menu_moveup/down
14:32:08JdGordon... and only the radio screen uses menu_insert/delete (once each)
14:32:57JdGordon... dunno what put_cursorxy() is used for.. its never called either
14:35:47amiconnHmm, maybe it could work...
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14:40:07JdGordonamiconn: it seems only the setting screens use this.. so it will be taken care of once settings are tabulated fully, so no need to worry about it now i guess
14:40:57*JdGordon hopes to have the menu code ready tomorow so they can start bein moved
14:41:20amiconnThe talk ids are not only used by the settings
14:41:48JdGordonno, the STR macro is
14:41:49amiconnA few other places use them as well, but maybe they use them directly
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15:00:53bananaflyI have a problem installing rockbox on my ipod
15:01:16bananaflyWhen i start it it says "Rockbox error -5" and boots the apple firmware
15:01:45GodEaterI thought the ipod boot loader had friendlier messages in it now ?
15:02:44GodEater-5 is "bad checksum" though - which means you should try downloading a new SVN build
15:02:52GodEaterand unzip it to your player again
15:03:10 Quit mako (Connection timed out)
15:03:14bananaflyhm, I'll try that
15:03:27BagderGodEater: I don't think we've updated the bootloaders on the dl site since that msg fix
15:03:38GodEaterthat would explain it then :)
15:03:48Mikachuand not everyone monitors that page
15:04:42Bagderwell, since he's installing now he probably downloaded the bootloader rather recently
15:05:38Mikachui suppose that is true :)
15:06:15bananaflyYay :)
15:06:18bananaflyIt worked
15:06:28bananaflyThanks ^
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15:23:48barrywardellBagder: did you get my message about the lack of daily build links for the Sansa?
15:24:44barrywardellI'm referring to 'old' daily builds
15:25:55Bagderyes, I see it
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15:27:02*Bagder changes the daily build links to use fixed URLs
15:27:49*barrywardell thanks Bagder
15:27:58daurnimatorhi all
15:28:25daurnimatorsup Bagder
15:28:34Bagderah, I see the error
15:28:52Bagderthe '200' is believed to be the start of the date
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15:31:49Bagderworking now
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15:47:40rockseekerhello folks
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15:52:16rockseekerwhere can i find the list of known bugs of rockbox for ipod nano first-gen ?
15:57:24 Quit Ribs ("eh eh ehhhh!")
15:58:42GodEaterthe RB website appears to be becoming more and more difficult to navigate.
15:59:04GodEaterI'm assuming I'm not alone in being able to see the "bug reports" link ?
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16:03:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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16:06:04amiconnGodEater: It's in the side menu as usual...
16:07:04 Join pixie [0] (
16:07:32pixieI have an iPod video, and whenever I go into a directory, example music/pixie/ and start playing something, I can never get back to the root directory
16:07:44pixieIt will stay in pixie/ and loop between now playing pixie/ and menu
16:07:53pixieIs there no way to go back to the root directory?
16:08:51amiconnUse Left in the browser to go up
16:09:33pixieIt won't go up directories
16:09:35pixieOnly menus
16:09:53pixieRight now I'm stuck in music/home/kulashaker, and whenever I use left I just either go back to now playing or a menu
16:10:04pixieIf I use left I will not go back to music/home for example
16:10:48markunpixie: did you always have that problem?
16:10:58pixieI never figured it out
16:11:00markunusing the official build?
16:11:08pixieBefore I start playing a song I can browse between the directories just fine
16:11:09amiconnSounds like you use an unsupported build...
16:11:16pixieBut as soon as I actually get into a playlist, I can't browse
16:12:35pixieLike now, it's in now playing, if I go back it will restart the track, if I go menu it will go into the menu, but if I go left from there it will only go back into now playing again
16:13:03*amiconn suggests reading the manual
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16:13:20markunpixie: yes, everything you describe sounds normal so far
16:13:36pixieamiconn: I *did* read the manual
16:13:49pixieAnd I seriously cannot figure out how to get back into the door directory
16:13:52markunpixie: what is the button to go to the file tree from the WPS?
16:15:15markunpixie: well?
16:15:32pixiemarkun: from the WPS the only way to do anything is go from WPS to menu to playlist
16:15:41pixieOr it will just loop between WPS and playlist
16:15:55pixieer, wps and menu
16:16:09markunwhat happens if you press select?
16:16:42markunlittle hint:
16:17:10pixieSelect does it :). Never noticed that
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16:18:33markunpixie: do you have any suggestions how the manual could be improved so other users will find it?
16:19:33 Join perl|work [0] (
16:19:56markungood day perl|work
16:19:58pixieAdd that long select has to be done in the 'while playing'-window, and that it will go back to the file tree
16:20:24perl|workhows it going markun
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16:21:14perl|workmarkun hows paris treating you
16:21:15markunpixie: add it where?
16:21:21markunperl|work: getting better :)
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16:21:37pixiemarkun: 4.1.1 File browse controls
16:21:39perl|workwhere did you find the place btw?
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16:24:32pixelmapixie: it is in the wps key controls table - isn't that the better place?
16:24:36markunperl|work: a friend of a coworker
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16:26:45pixiepixelma: It's not in the wps key controls table?
16:27:15pixelmahmm? It is...
16:28:42markunpixie: I just sent you the link
16:29:02markunotherwise I also wouldn't have known it was select (as I don't have an ipod)
16:29:38Mikachuthere are only 5 buttons, you know what 4 of them do, is it really so hard to guess? :)
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16:32:09markunI was expecting that :)
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16:57:06webguest23I have a simple wps syntax question. I'm loading a created Progress bar: %P|pbar.bmp| but pbar.bmp shows up on my lcd. Am I missing something?
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17:02:06pixelmado you use a clean svn-version of rockbox or a patched one?
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17:08:50webguest23Acutally I don't know. I'm using the sim from rasher
17:09:07webguest23for the GBeat
17:09:18webguest23on WinXP
17:11:11bluebrotheris that tag on a line of its own?
17:11:25webguest23yes sir
17:11:42pixelmaalso... where did you store your pbar.bmp?
17:11:47bluebrotherhmm. You could also try if the filename shows up also on a different sim
17:12:24webguest23wps\HI name of wps is HI.wps
17:13:41 Quit barrywardell (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
17:14:09gtkspertDoes anyone know that the last four weeks link in the commit's on the rockbox webpage doesnt work?
17:14:09webguest23ah, here's something interesting. I had another progress bar bmp in the same folder. switched the name and it shows up correctly.
17:14:21pixelmasounds right then - I'm running out of ideas... I can only imagine a type somewhere
17:14:28webguest23maybe there's something wrong with the bmp that I wanted to use.
17:14:39webguest23thanks for the input
17:14:55GodEatergtkspert: we do now
17:15:17gtkspertGood o :)
17:15:19pixelmawebguest23: that could be possible as well
17:15:32GodEaterthink Bagder or Zagor will have to fix it though
17:15:36 Part nohar
17:15:48gtkspertthe other links arent working either, but it's no bother really, i just noticed :)
17:19:35webguest23I've noticed a bug with the GB port. Reg'd with Flyspray a few days ago and never got the responding email. Is that registration form still working after the website issues last week?
17:20:03perl|workwebguest23 what kind of bug?
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17:20:59webguest23when viewing a plylst, long select a file, file options, properties: produces a: data abort at 0004somenumber
17:21:29markunwebguest23: viewing a plylst = playing some music?
17:21:37n1swebguest23: aah, yes the playlist viewer uses the plugin buffer as does properties
17:21:40 Join norbusan [0] (
17:21:42webguest23have the newest bootloader and 1/24 bld
17:22:00webguest23playing music or not
17:22:09n1sproperties has to be disabled in the playlist viewer.
17:23:36webguest23as stated earlier, i want to report the bug but can't quite reg with the Flyspray form.
17:23:41rockseekerbefore installing ipod bootloader, the ipod must be in disk mode? (with the procedure select-menu - select-hold) ?
17:23:54webguest23Markun, this is Nate from mygigabeat
17:24:27n1swebguest23: I'll report it in the tracker, but don't know why you didn't get the mail.
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17:26:05markunwebguest23: I guessed that :)
17:26:11webguest23nls: thnx
17:28:24n1swebguest23: do you remember the number after Data Abort?
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17:29:22webguest23nls: 00049340
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17:30:31GodEaterrockseeker: yes - that will work
17:31:19GodEaterrockseeker - but you need to do slightly different button pushes, it's Select+Menu to reboot, and then immediately Select+Play.
17:31:22n1swebguest23: does it look ok?
17:31:58rockseekerGodEater, after Select+Play the ipod show to me the "disk mode". then i can install rockbox bootloader
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17:32:27GodEaterrockseeker - PLEASE make sure you follow the manual properly. Don't try to "skim" it
17:32:35webguest23nls: exactly, thnx
17:32:55linuxboyis anybody actually working on the nano 2G port?
17:33:06GodEaterlinuxboy: No.
17:33:07rockseekeri read twice the procedure, for max secure i ask on the channel :)
17:33:25linuxboyGodEater: damn
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17:41:08pixelmabluebrother: can I ask you some questions about compiling the manual and latex?
17:41:41rockseekeranyone is trying rockbox on ipod nano 1g?
17:42:30webguest23Markun: So, is there a way to compile the latest build for a sim useable on XP? ;)
17:43:11markunwebguest23: don't ask me..
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17:44:47linuxstb_rockseeker: Lots of people use it on the Nano.
17:44:53rockseekerhow much is stable?
17:45:17linuxstb_Try it and judge for yourself, but I don't think there are any major issues.
17:45:39linuxstb_Apart from if you try and make the CPU do too many things at the same time... But that affects all ipods.
17:45:48GodEaterif you don't think it's stable enough, it's very easy to revert back to the OF. You don't even need to uninstall rockbox.
17:46:10linuxstb_rockseeker: What do you expect to get from Rockbox?
17:46:12webguest23markun: as in "you don't know", or "get away you're botherin me kid"
17:46:35rockseekerlinuxstb: to read a lot of kind of formats
17:46:43rockseekernot only mp3 and wma
17:46:48rockseekerand the rest
17:46:53rockseekeri have a lot of .ogg
17:46:56GodEaterwebguest23: it's heavily documented in the wiki as to how to set up a dev environment
17:47:07n1swma isn't supported...
17:47:07GodEaterthere are two choices for XP - cygwin, or the vmware image
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17:47:34GodEaterwebguest23: we recommend the vmware image
17:48:00markunwebguest23: don't know :)
17:48:09webguest23godeater: I have the vmware env setup. I compiled the newest sim bld and was trying to use it on xp.
17:48:28GodEaterthe sim should run from within the vmware image
17:48:35GodEaterif that's where you built it
17:49:45webguest23godeater: I read the docs on running it within, and i get something about: no display devicedebian/user/.rockbox/sim
17:50:07GodEaterlemme try it - one sec
17:50:07webguest23that is: when i run rockboxui
17:50:21*GodEater really wanted to go to the pub....
17:53:17GodEatercan you paste the exact error you get then please ?
17:53:22GodEaterworks fine here
17:53:46webguest23godeater: sure, setting things up now
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17:55:53bluebrotherpixelma: sure
17:56:10bluebrotherI just was out for some minutes ;-)
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17:58:28pixelmabluebrother: ... first: since svn (I think) I noticed that compiling the manual (pdf) is processed twice. I'm just wondering why
17:59:18bluebrotherthe manual needs to be processed twice because of the references. Latex can't generate the references in the first run as it doesn't know the pages
17:59:30bluebrotherbut that has been present before as its typical to latex
17:59:56pixelmaok.. then I didn't notice before for some reason
18:00:22bluebrotherif there are labels that have changed latex produces a warning, and the makefile will then re-run it
18:01:17HdaackdaA couple of questions 1). Can the playlist display title names instead of filenames? (2) Can it be induced to add only *.mp3 files etc? (instead of mp4 which rockbox cant play)
18:02:11pixelmamy second question is - I wanted to compile an html-version (compiling under cygwin) and it complained about "htlatex command not found". What do I need to install or do to make it work?
18:02:26bluebrotherHdaackda: 1. no
18:02:42Hdaackdaand i guess 2. is no too
18:02:42webguest23godeater: there are a few errors: the final error: fatal: No available video device
18:02:46bluebrother2. Rockbox should be able playing mp4
18:02:59Hdaackdamp4 (video files). cant
18:03:01bluebrotherat least afaik. Probably not on your player
18:03:12bluebrotherah, when referring to video files it can't. Right.
18:03:16GodEaterwebguest23: let me check something
18:03:30bluebrotherI was referring to mp4 audio. Err, mixed it up with aac
18:03:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:04:09bluebrotherpixelma: I don't know if there is a package for cygwin but you need htlatex or tex4ht
18:04:21pondlifeAnyone here know anything about the H300 PCF50606 pin assignments? I know LinusN did some tracing and disassembly, but there is some confusion in the wiki.
18:04:30bluebrothertex4ht is the name of the package, htlatex the command used
18:05:19GodEaterwebguest23: where are you launching the rockboxui from ?
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18:05:52Hdaackdacan anyone make the playlist display titles instead of filenames? or give me an idea, mayb i can do it? (i know zilch bout coding...)
18:05:53stevenmHey guys. Has anyone seen that 'music quiz' game on the ipod stock firmware?
18:05:59webguest23godeater: from within the created "sim" dir, within vmware/debian
18:06:13GodEateryes - but which terminal window ?
18:06:28webguest23oh sorry: eterm
18:06:50GodEatercan you type "echo $DISPLAY"
18:07:29pixelmabluebrother: thanks, will search for it.... last but not least - can I prevent a few lines from breaking so that they don't appear on two pages in the pdf?
18:07:55GodEaterI'm stumped then - that's exactly what I have - and it works perfectly here
18:08:05GodEaterI'm assuming you chose SDL mode ?
18:08:13GodEaterwhen you did ../tools/configure ?
18:08:38GodEaterthink you might have to ask the vmware image maintainer then - I've no clue why that doesn't work for you
18:09:40webguest23the errors that scroll by before the fatal err say: connection toXlib: ":0.0" refused by server
18:09:40 Quit Hdaackda ("Bye")
18:10:14webguest23Xlib: No protocol specified
18:10:19rockseekerrockboxed :D
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18:12:43linuxstb_webguest23: Silly question, but is X running?
18:12:46bluebrotheryou can put words in an mbox so they don't get broken.
18:13:03bluebrotherbut there is also another option ... I need to look that up.
18:14:04webguest23linuxstb_:I have to apologize in advance, I'm new to the linux env. How do I check that from the vmware/debian setup?
18:14:46pixelmabluebrother: to be precise.. it is an enumeration
18:15:05tchan:0.0 errors occur in an X env when the app being run was started by someone with the wrong user permission. i.e. a user started X, but now root is trying to run a gui app or vice-versa
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18:15:25linuxstb_I've never used the Rockbox vmware image, but does it include X?
18:15:32Mikachutchan: (you can "fix" that by giving them access to the correct .Xauthority file)
18:15:32linuxstb_And is X started by default?
18:16:02webguest23tchan: so should I su to root and run rockboxui
18:16:24bluebrotherpixelma: gtg now. I'll look into it later
18:16:28Mikachuwebguest23: do you have a graphical environment or just white text on black background?
18:16:45pixelmabluebrother: alright - thank you :)
18:16:51 Quit bluebrother ("CGI:IRC")
18:17:31webguest23mikachu: I haven't made any changes to the debian env. (I don't know how or what to change.)
18:17:44Mikachuokay, can you answer the question?
18:18:10webguest23just followed the wiki on setting up the vmware/debian, so I think it's just the white letters on the black background
18:18:14webguest23from eterm that is.
18:18:20foolshstartx then
18:19:12foolshsoory but can anyone else access the or is it down?
18:20:22n1sfoolsh: no it doesn't work
18:20:25JPMaximilianfoolsh: thats down for me too
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18:21:08webguest23foolsh: ran that and get the connection to ":0.0" refused by server
18:21:14 Quit Mouser_X3 (Connection timed out)
18:21:34webguest23along with other errs: invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key
18:22:12stevenmas the user who has access to X, type 'xhost +'
18:22:23webguest23oh, xinit: no such process (errno 3): Server error
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18:23:45webguest23stevenm: how do i know who has access to X? I su to root or exit and try as user and get the same errs
18:24:16stevenmwebguest23, sorry, havent been following. How is X started? root types startx ?
18:26:16webguest23stevenm: wait, I think I might have misspoke earlier. I think X is started. When using the vmware env
18:26:32webguest23X starts and you compile using an eterm window
18:27:06webguest23I think X starts: I get a cool Rockbox background, then I left click to run eterm
18:27:19foolshwebguest23: that is x
18:27:51webguest23foosh: yeah, apologizes to everyone, just pulled my head from my rear.
18:28:11 Quit mako_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:28:14webguest23original problem: can't run the sim after compiling.
18:29:06webguest23from ../tools/configure choose 40 for GB, and S for sim, then S for SDL
18:29:17foolshwebguest: I've never used the vm image but do you cd ~/rockbox/build and then ./rockboxui? or do you double click the icon?
18:29:23webguest23run make thn make install as described in wiki
18:30:01webguest23cd ~/rockbox/sim/rockboxui
18:30:21webguest23sorry run from ~/rockbox/sim/
18:30:43Mikachutry running this and then try
18:30:52Mikachuexport XAUTHORITY=~/.Xauthority
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18:32:16webguest23mikachu: finally! thanks, that was it.
18:32:46webguest23so that gave the user "user" access to X?
18:34:09Mikachuyou could say that
18:34:19Mikachufor some reason eterm threw away the environment
18:36:52webguest23Now, copying from xp to the debian vm: I get access denied. Is there a doc on allowing access between the host and vm?
18:39:22foolshwebguest: where is the folder located you are trying to copy to? on the vmmachine
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18:40:05foolshi.e /dev, /etc, /home/user/share
18:40:13webguest23foolsh: on the host which is xp pro
18:40:42foolshcopying from vmware to xp right?
18:40:49webguest23xp to vmware
18:41:21webguest23trying to move sample music and wps stuff over to the vm to test with the sim.
18:41:53foolshcan you but the files in a shared folder in xp and access them from vm?
18:42:57*foolsh thinks webguest should just install debian
18:43:32 Quit tchan (Remote closed the connection)
18:43:37*foolsh thinks webguest might be scared of gnu/linux now though
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18:44:44foolshI don't know what kind of software the vmimage has installed by default
18:44:52foolshis samba installed?
18:48:53foolshwebguest23 you still there?
18:49:16webguest23sorry, lookd away for a sec.
18:49:32linuxstb_Yes, I think samba is installed, so from Windows you can browse \\debian\user
18:50:48foolshto me it sounds like the user folder doen't allow changes other than from owner
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18:51:26webguest23yes, samba is loaded, cuz from win I have to use the address: \\x.x.x.x\user
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18:52:01webguest23and I see the folders
18:53:34foolshbut you can't right click create new folder or copy files and so on
18:53:56webguest23that's when I get access denied.
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18:55:47Aaron3Is it possible to have Rockbox to make a random shuffle of songs that are only Flac files?
18:55:49webguest23k: I read a little further in another wiki. from debian, as root, I changed permissions to 777.
18:56:01webguest23now I can copy to and from.
18:56:20webguest23thank you to everyone for all of the help! Sincerely.
18:56:29 Join brenton_ [0] (n=chatzill@
18:57:03brenton_Hello. I am having a bit of trouble installing rockbox on mygigabeat.
18:57:44brenton_I unzipped the folder to the root directory, and replaced the boot file, but it's still loading normally.
18:58:20 Quit foolsh (Remote closed the connection)
18:59:03webguest23brenton: did you unplug ac adapter and turn the battery switch off and on? Then restart.
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18:59:24foolshgot kick off
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19:00:10brenton_not the battery switch. >.<
19:00:56webguest23foolsh: did you see that everything works now?
19:00:59brenton_ah hah.
19:01:02brenton_that was it.
19:01:07brenton_thanks. :D
19:01:18webguest23brenton: have fun customizing!
19:01:29brenton_Will do. :)
19:01:47*foolsh sees part of his passwrd too now i'll have to change it again O_o
19:02:05hcsfair warning to all living and dead: I'm about to attempt to commit the NSF patch
19:02:38*tucoz runs for cover
19:02:56foolshNeed For Speed? patch
19:03:05hcsNeed Sor Feed?
19:03:13hcsSpoor feed, maybe
19:03:21foolshway past my bedtime again
19:03:33tucozpixelma, did you try the \mbox{text} command?
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19:04:07tucozhcs, is it a new codec or a plugin?
19:04:08pixelmano not yet
19:04:18 Quit Aaron3 ()
19:04:25hcstucoz: codec
19:04:44webguest23Thanks again to everyone for their help. I'm out: have to play with my wps.
19:04:57tucozit is said that it prevents lines from being broken
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19:05:36pixelmatucoz: I'll try
19:06:02tucozotherwise, the guys over at #latex are usually friendly in case you run into problems
19:06:34 Join bluey- [0] (
19:06:39pixelmaah... that's a nice hint :)
19:07:31hcsdoh, forgot to include the FS# of the patch
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19:12:18brenton_xobox is addicting.
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19:13:31n1shcs is it realtime on anything non gigabeat?
19:13:37hcsoh yeah
19:13:51hcsipods, h120s
19:13:58hcsfaster than MP3 on ipods
19:14:03n1soooh, nice
19:14:17*n1s seaches for nsf's
19:14:37hcsit also supports NSFe, which has timing and playlist information embedded
19:15:36hcshm, didn't realize that my name would just show up as "agashlin"
19:15:43tucozis there a hvsc for nsf?
19:15:51hcsno, unfortunately
19:16:02hcsthere is something similar, though, let me see if I can locate it
19:16:04pondlifehcs: It should really be your full name ;-)
19:16:12n1shcs: Bagder probably forgot to add you to the translation table
19:17:16pixelmatucoz: \mbox doesn't seem to work if put around items
19:17:41hcsbah, warnings
19:18:09tucozok. hmm. but it should be possible to place for instance a \begin{itemize}...\end{itemize} within an environment
19:18:19hcshmm, not in anything I did...
19:18:27pixelmahcs: I don't see no additional warnings
19:18:28amiconnBagder: There's a username->realname mapping missing in the 'latest changes' script
19:18:59pondlifeQuick! The employers are looking!
19:19:16hcspixelma: I see some warnings switched between various sims
19:19:26hcsipod sims, specifically
19:19:32midgeythose are always there
19:19:39hcsah, at random?
19:20:00midgeylostlogic's server does it
19:20:01pondlifelostlogic's build machine
19:20:02pixelmahcs: yes these are the onws that are compiled on two servers which are running a "broken GCC version
19:20:14pixelmaones even
19:20:33pixelmatucoz: I tried that too
19:20:33amiconnlostlogic's build server has a bad snapshot version of gcc 4.1.2
19:20:48pondlifeShould be fixable in synth.c though...?
19:21:00amiconnIt causes warnings for legitimate code
19:21:16tucozhcs, thanks :)
19:21:30amiconnpondlife: Nope. Fixing those warnings for this "special" gcc 4.1.1 makes them appear for all other gcc versions
19:22:27hcstucoz: there was another archive I was thinking of that I'm still trying to track down
19:22:40amiconnAnd you can't even apply the workaround for this special gcc version only - it shares its version number with correctly working ones
19:22:56hcstucoz: (Knurek's pack)
19:23:08pondlifeDoes anyone have an idea why dircache causes the sims to fail? Random extra chars appear on the end of filenames.
19:23:21amiconn(both 4.1.1 release and newer 4.1.2 snapshot versions are correct, but all of them state 4.1.1)
19:23:38hcstucoz: bah, slightly newer:
19:23:57tucozhcs, thanks again
19:24:09*tucoz is downloading loads of .nsf's
19:24:20hcsthat's the one I have, nice and alphabetized
19:24:27hcsI really like the convenience of NSFe, though
19:24:47tucozis that a program?
19:24:56n1shcs: do they loop for ever like the sid's do?
19:24:59hcsit is an extension of the format
19:25:13hcsn1s: by default they play for 2 minutes and fade out (or silence is detected)
19:25:14 Quit spiorf ("Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)")
19:25:27hcswhen you enable "repeat one" they play forever
19:25:43n1svery nice, i hope someone will make the sid codec do the same...
19:25:43hcsthey automatically advance tracks, as well
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19:26:21hcsI await the complaints of the masses
19:28:43perl|workyay nfs playback
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19:30:02hcsperl|work: that didn't sounds like much of a complaint
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19:31:41pixelmahcs: if Bagder fixes the appearance of you name in the table he also needs to correct the "Adam only" for Adam Boot (rotator)...
19:31:49perl|workyeah and i misspelled it from overexcitement
19:33:55hcsaaaand the SVN build doesn't boot on my ipod color
19:34:35hcsit's that damned scaling, I always disable it in my own builds
19:34:37n1shcs: my own build on h300 works fine here :-)
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19:35:41***Server message 505: 'logbot :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( )'
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19:38:08hcsI suggest some sonically impressive sets using expansion sound, like Madara, Gimmick, or Akumajou Densetsu
19:39:10amiconnSomeone needs to fix the frequency scaling on PP5020
19:39:43hcsI say disable it for now. Doesn't help substantially with battery life that I've heard of.
19:39:49amiconnStrangely enough it works on PP5021 and PP5022 though it's said that all 3 are register compatible
19:40:40amiconnIf I had a PP5020 target I would try to fix it
19:41:13amiconnBut I "only" have PP5022
19:41:16courtcThey are register compatible, but the pp5020 is slower than it's dirivatives.
19:42:08amiconnComparing boost ratios it seems the 5020, 5021 and 5022 are about equally fast at the same clock freq
19:42:22hcsmaybe not stable switching to the high frewe
19:42:31 Quit bluey- ("This computer has gone to sleep")
19:42:33amiconnThe PP5022 can be clocked higher according to the fact sheet
19:42:53amiconnThe slow one is the PP5002 (broken cache implementation)
19:43:28courtcat 70mhz the pp5022 pumps out quite a bit more bogomips than the pp5020
19:44:20 Quit brenton_ ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
19:44:32amiconnDoes ipl use the extra iram?
19:44:48 Join byteshack [0] (
19:44:55amiconn(and does that affect those bogomips?)
19:45:09byteshackdoes rockbock support iPod 5.5 gen?
19:45:26courtcNot really, and no.
19:45:49byteshackcourtc: is there a push on that front?
19:45:58pixelmabyteshack: yes but only the 30GB models
19:46:16byteshackthat's what I've got
19:46:20courtcFor ipl using more iram? Not really.
19:46:28amiconnThe frontpage clearly states it...
19:46:38pixelmabyteshack: those are already supported I mean - courtc is talking to another
19:47:00byteshackpixelma: thanks
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19:47:20courtcoh.. bla
19:47:59byteshackI'm a bit new to all this
19:48:00hcsis there an up to date prebuilt ipod bootloader on the site?
19:48:17byteshackwhat is the advantage of rockbox over iPodLinux?
19:48:35n1swhy don't you try it out?
19:48:53byteshackmaybe not advantage, but difference?
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19:49:21courtcbyteshack: it's not an advantage of one over the other... We have different goals.
19:49:35n1sbyteshack: that's like asking whats the difference between an orange and a pie
19:49:44hcspersonally I prefer pie
19:49:47byteshackdo they use the same kernel? or is the diff on the UI?
19:49:50hcsis there an orange pie?
19:50:04n1sbyteshack: no the rockbox kernel is custom
19:50:16n1sas in not linux
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19:50:57byteshackdoes that mean that apps are not interchangeable with iPodLinux?
19:51:10*amiconn wonders why building the html manual doesn't work on his debian box
19:51:25courtcUnless someone ports them ;)
19:51:45n1samiconn: does it have tex4ht installed?
19:51:48courtc*cough*, cube
19:51:53amiconnYes, I just installed that
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19:52:58*n1s never tried building the html version...
19:53:20byteshackdoes rockbox play movies yet?
19:53:29amiconnn1s: It starts building, runs for a while, and then:
19:53:54courtcbyteshack: you should read the site and forums :)
19:55:03amiconnBuilding the manual throws truckloads of warnings... :(
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19:55:29amiconnThe very first one is also strange (appears for all kinds of manual builds, sometimes twice):
19:55:36pondlife has so many patches now, surely one of them must fix the 5020 scaling ;-)
19:56:03byteshack:) the proverbial RTFM, fair enough...
19:56:06hcsmy cpufreq3 does something
19:56:12amiconnmake: /home/jens/rockbox/manual/platform/ command not found
19:56:21mattzzsame here
19:56:57pondlifehcs: Could there be multiple problems here - we're not going to find the second until we've patched the first...?
19:57:03n1samiconn: I just installed tex4ht and tried a manual build with html and got the exact same error as you. (Ubuntu 64bit)
19:57:15amiconnThis is debian 64 bit ...
19:57:28hcsspeaking of FS, how can I go about getting FS #6122 closed now that it is committed?
19:57:37amiconnWhat about the
19:57:57pondlifehcs: Done
19:58:01hcspondlife: potentially, cpufreq3 seems to fix the issue on color 4gs but not grayscale
19:58:05hcspondlife: thanks
19:58:08amiconnBuilding the pdf does work in spite of this warning...
19:58:24pondlifeYou should get added to the FlySpray developers group though
19:58:46pondlifeSo, maybe the grayscale is a seperate issue. Does cpufreq3 make anything work worse?
19:58:51 Quit JPMaximilian ("I Shall Return")
19:59:12hcsit uses a slightly lower nonboosted frequency
19:59:26pondlifeI only have an H340 but would dearly love to see some of the iPod crash bugs closed!
19:59:50hcsit's a different method for scaling, but seems to work...
20:00:05dan_aIt should be possible (according to MrH) to use a 33MHz clock without changing the PLL - but I've not managed to make that work
20:00:15dan_ahcs: I like your approach
20:00:29hcsI just wish it worked on the grayscales
20:00:53hcsless PLL reclocking is better, I'd think
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20:01:20pondlifeSo could it be committed in the absence of a better patch? Or is it likely to break something?
20:01:21dan_aDon't 4G greyscales and 4G colour/photos have the same processors?
20:01:33hcsthat's what I thought
20:01:45hcsbut I can't argue with the reports I'm getting
20:02:17dan_aI'll give it a try when I get home. I'm getting bitten by the same problem on the 3G now, too.
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20:03:00hcsoh, there is a potential issue, the channel switching
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20:03:54***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:04:27hcswhich was observed with barrywardell's cpufreq4 as well, but reported occasionally with cpufreq3
20:04:38 Quit Thundercloud_ (Connection timed out)
20:05:21pondlifeI've had occasional channel switches on H340
20:05:34pondlifeOr at least balance seems to go hard left.
20:05:41pondlifeMay be related?
20:05:47pondlifei.e. another issue?
20:05:59dan_aI get channel switching on the 3G whenever playback skips
20:06:18pondlifeWithout any cpyfreqx patch?
20:06:45dan_aThat's with normal frequency scaling - I ought to check what happens when it is disabled
20:06:49Mikachuhcs: dunno if it's a problem with the .nsf or the codec but instead of Astrix, the title says Ast?rix
20:07:15hcsMikachu: I know what you mean, but both acute es show up as ? here
20:07:41Mikachudo you know if nsf tags have a specified encoding or if it's arbitrary?
20:07:51hcsit's the .nsf using the extended ASCII character instead of unicode, I assume
20:08:29hcsand good choice with Asterix, btw
20:08:42Mikachuheh, i copied over all .nsfs i have, 700kB
20:08:53Mikachudoes the plugin automatically switch songs after some minutes or endless play?
20:09:04Mikachu(and asterix came first, alphabetically)
20:10:05hcsit automatically switched after 2:00
20:10:12hcsor detects silence
20:10:13n1shcs: I hear some hig frequency "sqeaks" in some nsf's that I don't think is really part of the music (but I could be wrong)
20:10:26hcsn1s: yeah, it isn't nearly perfect
20:10:38hcsany one in particular?
20:11:01hcsMikachu: you can enable endless play by setting repeat=one
20:11:08Mikachuah, hack :)
20:11:09n1sI'm not sure, the wps got out of sync...
20:11:27Mikachuis the last second not a subtrack? it seems to skip to the next track when i try to play it
20:11:28hcsMikachu: also you can seek tracks similarly to the SID codec
20:11:35hcsMikachu: yeah, 0 based
20:11:35XavierGrwho is the new commiter?
20:11:44*hcs raises hand
20:12:00XavierGroh! Nice hope to see some good work then :P
20:12:01hcsn1s: what device do you have again?
20:12:07Mikachuhcs: the next song info doesn't seem to work, in case you haven't noticed
20:12:15XavierGrI will try to test this new codec now :D
20:12:18hcsMikachu: yeah, metadata reading is only in the codec
20:12:55hcsn1s: so it doesn't seem to be inherent to the song? have you ever noticed anything like this in other codecs?
20:13:47n1shcs: no, it seemed to be song specific, just for some reason the wps didn't update when the song changed so I'm not sure which one :-)
20:14:10hcsn1s: which game, then?>
20:14:40n1sone beginning on m, I started with megaman and let it play for a while :-)
20:15:27hcshm, well when you find which one it is I'll check it out
20:15:41pondlifeamiconn: Yes
20:15:42n1sMegami Tensei 1 is relly strange but I'm not sure if it's supposed to be... (not this problem)
20:15:43hcsthe synthesis is done really cheaply...
20:16:34pondlifeSorry, replying to your PM by the only method I know..!!
20:16:53pondlifeMiranda doesn't want to let me do the obvious
20:17:38hcsI've got an interview in a few minutes so I'll be AFK, I'll try to check up on bug reports and stuff when I return.
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20:20:04tucozamiconn, there is a trouble shooting on this page for your error.
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20:20:47tucozamiconn, google found lots of references to that error, so it it probably possible to fix.
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20:30:25Mikachumy backlight doesn't turn off
20:30:32Mikachuit turns off if i set the setting to off
20:30:43Mikachuand if i turn on hold (i have it set to turn off backlight on hold)
20:30:47*Mikachu tries restarting rockbox
20:31:41Mikachuhm taht worked, nm then
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21:17:43Lloreanmidgey: Does your changing that task to Critical mean you confirm it happens that way?
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21:27:04mattzzis hosting .mi4/.rom files legal?
21:27:12 Quit webguest78 (Client Quit)
21:27:52Bagderit's not crystal clear
21:28:03*mattzz got his Sansa back
21:28:05Lloreanmattzz: It someone depends on what the people who originally created them decide.
21:28:05Bagderso that's why I host them myself and not
21:28:26LloreanThe general feeling is that 'they probably won't object if they're completely unmodified'
21:28:41LloreanMaybe 'probably' should be 'hopefully'
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21:28:56mattzzI wanted to intercept my rom/mi4 update files and put them on my page - pretty risky
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21:30:01mattzzBagder, I suspect your activities are being somehow monitored by Sansa?
21:30:29linuxstb_It would be pretty odd for Sandisk to complain after asking us to hack their players...
21:30:40mattzzhehe, true.
21:30:46Bagderbut I host a lot of other mi4 files than just Sandisk's
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21:31:40mattzzon one hand rockbox is making their products more attractive, on the other hand those files are clearly not intended to be spread on the net
21:31:49Mikachuisn't it slightly odd to ask you to hack them instead of just giving you the source?
21:32:08 Part God_Eater
21:32:22mattzzhacking/reverse engineering is not against the law in all countries.
21:32:34mattzzcopying copyrighted files is.
21:33:10Bagdermattzz: those files are already available for free on the net
21:33:18Bagderthat's why I host them
21:33:26LloreanMikachu: Yeah, but they've got contracts keeping them from revealing the source to us.
21:33:40mattzzI only find the automatic updater exe on sansas pages nowadays
21:33:57LloreanStill, once the Sansa has sound it's going to be I think a very attractive player.
21:34:05Mikachucrazy byrocracy
21:34:11Bagdermattzz: right, but I don't host any of the mi4 files that tool gets, I believe
21:34:36mattzzAh, so if I intercept some files from the autoupdater it could be risky?
21:34:43BagderI doubt that
21:34:46mattzz(and put them on the net)
21:35:07mattzzI guess we have to find out ;-)
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21:42:13mattzzThe updater simply puts both files in the root directory? nothing else?
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21:44:13BiptoNlinuxstb_: i just added a patch for cpu scaling on the pp5020 ipod targets, task #6095 do you think you could test it on your color 4g sometime if you have a chance?
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21:46:01mindframewhat does rockbox -2 mean on boot?
21:46:07Bagdermattzz: that's it I think
21:46:25Bagderat least that's what it/we did before the update tool
21:46:37n1smindframe: checksum failed
21:46:43hcsBiptoN: I'll give it a go
21:46:47 Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:46:59BiptoNdo you have a grayscale or color?
21:47:03mindframechecksum of the mbr image?
21:47:04Bagderhcs: congrats on your premier commit! ;-)
21:47:12n1smindframe: iow your rockbox.whatever file is damaged
21:47:12mattzzBagder, thanks.
21:47:18hcsBagder: thanks!
21:47:42 Part buttock
21:47:53hcsas I likely just miserably failed my interview with google that's probably the highlight of my day
21:48:17*n1s wishes the new bootloaders with verbose errors were completed and released soon ;-)
21:48:37hcserror: the kneebone is disconnected
21:49:01mattzzaaaargh. Load main image failed. Switch to Recovery mode.
21:49:05mindframenls: any idea how that would happen?
21:49:19n1smaybe unsafe disconnect?
21:49:28 Join saratoga [0] (i=98039b64@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:49:33n1scrazy filesystem bug?
21:49:48mattzzgnnnnhhh. not again.
21:50:12massiveHhcs: it couldn't have been that bad.
21:50:17*n1s wonders what the difference between a "Read failed (chksum)" and a "Bad checksum" is?
21:50:18Bagdermattzz: recovery mode not working now again?
21:50:46hcsmassiveH: I'll discuss it with you in #rockbox-community if you'd like
21:50:52mattzzBagder, I havent tried to switch to rec mode. Should I? I simply did an update via auto updater
21:50:57saratogahcs: which google office?
21:51:23Bagdermattzz: wow, now that shouldn't misbehave of course... but then recovery mode is nothing dangerous if you just play by the book
21:51:25saratogaif my phd turns sour, i'm probably going to apply at Phx
21:51:33saratogamy friends are there
21:51:44mattzzBagder, *no* .rom files - I promise
21:52:00Bagderit doesn't need a .rom file to upgrade
21:52:01massiveHhcs: I'm on the webclient, and am unable to join, sorry.
21:52:22linuxstbBiptoN: How did you create that patch? It doesn't even include a filename...
21:52:33GodEatermassiveH: even
21:52:52mattzzBagder, should I use a mi4 file from your site, just to make sure to have a proper one?
21:53:05linuxstbBiptoN: If you've changed system.c, you should do "svn diff firmware/system.c > scaling_test.patch" (from the rockbox directory - assuming you're working from svn)
21:53:24massiveHhcs: what network?
21:53:50Bagdermattzz: the update tool should of course just work, but if you have firmware less than 1.03 you can use the appropriate mi4 from my page
21:55:39 Join safetydan [0] (n=dan@rockbox/developer/safetydan)
21:55:41 Part massiveH
21:56:15 Join massiveH [0] (i=c617050a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:57:07mattzzBagder, phew... worked.
21:57:41 Quit _Veseliq_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
21:58:12 Join lowlight [0] (i=c730190a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:58:44 Join Llorean [0] (n=Llorean@rockbox/administrator/Llorean)
21:59:16BiptoNlinuxstb_: i'm new to patches
21:59:22BiptoNlemme do that
21:59:33 Quit Mouser_X (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:00:20mindframenls: im using linux, how do i get my ipod to say its okay to disconnect? it always says 'do not disconnect' even after i umount
22:01:01hcsmindframe: eject
22:01:20linuxstbI always just ignore it and pull the plug after umount.
22:01:31hcsI eject to be sure
22:01:37GodEaterlinuxstb: me too
22:01:44BiptoNlinuxstb_: is that patch better?
22:01:46linuxstbWhat does eject do that umount doesn't?
22:01:50BiptoNi just reposted a new one
22:02:09hcslinuxstb: makes me feel better that everything is flushed
22:02:09GodEaterlinuxstb: somehow tells the iPod it's okay to disconnect :)
22:02:16GodEaterbut I'm not sure how it does it
22:02:28GodEaterI've also had problems reconnecting the iPod after I've used it
22:02:32GodEaterwhich is why I don't anymore
22:02:44BiptoNit syns the fs and removes the dev entry i believe
22:03:03GodEaterumount should sync the fs on it's own
22:03:13BiptoNit does
22:03:20linuxstbBiptoN: Yes, that patch looks perfect (from a purely patching point of view)
22:03:21BiptoNeject also removes the dev though
22:03:30mattzzBagder, does anybody need the 1.02.15 bootloader to update to 1.02.15 or is only the .mi4 required?
22:03:49BiptoNthanks for the help, don't want to sound or seem more tarded than i am ;)
22:03:54BagderI don't know, but I *think* only the mi4 is needed
22:03:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:04:26mattzzThere are no key/crypt dependencies in the BL, right?
22:04:58 Part webguest41
22:05:07mindframejust eject [device] ?
22:05:24 Quit Wiwie ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
22:05:29BiptoNeject /dev/sd?
22:05:42BiptoNor umount /dev/sd??
22:05:42Mikachuthere's a special usb command for disconnecting, and eject makes the kernel send it
22:05:51Mikachuit also makes /dev/sd?? disappear
22:05:54Mikachu(but not sd?)
22:06:01mindframeoh ok
22:06:07Mikachueject will automatically run umount
22:07:46Bagdermattzz: yes there is, the BL has the decryption key for the mi4
22:08:22Bagderbut they used the same key for all mi4 files until 1.03 when they changed
22:08:36GodEaterLlorean: you there ?
22:08:49mattzzBagder, ok - i c
22:08:49LloreanAt the moment
22:08:57GodEaterre: the rockboy post in the forums
22:09:09GodEaterI don't think the exact answer to his question *is* in the ipod faq
22:09:13GodEaterat least, I can't find it
22:09:23GodEaterhence the iriver link I gave him
22:09:24LloreanGodEater: Ah well, it's in the Manual and the Wiki page.
22:09:48linuxstbAre the ipod rockboy buttons documented anywhere? I looked the other day and couldn't find them.
22:09:50GodEaterit's in the manual too ? Hmm - I'll have to re-read it
22:10:14LloreanGodEater: The manual has it in the "Viewers" section.
22:10:21LloreanMost people only look in plugins, and don't bother with an actual search
22:10:37LloreanThey also don't read the header for the Viewers section so even if they find it, they don't get that it's launched differently
22:10:44LloreanAlso, as a final note, it's now in the IpodFAQ
22:10:55GodEaterI've found the rockboy section in the manual
22:10:58Lloreanlinuxstb: If they are documented, I'm about 80% sure they're outdated.
22:10:59GodEaterunder viewers as you say
22:11:03Mikachumaybe you could call them file plugins or something instead
22:11:04GodEaterbut it doesn't say where to put the roms
22:11:22LloreanGodEater: Yes, because it doesn't matter where you put the ROMs. If you read the definition of Viewers, that should be apparent.
22:11:28GodEaterah of course
22:11:29GodEatersilly me
22:11:31LloreanThe problem is, few people read the definition of viewers.
22:11:35linuxstbI think the problem is that Rockboy uses the wheel-position touches, which don't have macros in the manual...
22:11:45*GodEater beats his head on the counter
22:11:59Lloreanlinuxstb: I believe the manual says you need to hold Select to bring up the menu, and I *think* that it's a hold-toggle now.
22:12:00*Mikachu puts a soft cloth on the counter
22:12:11LloreanGodEater: recent post regarding cygwin?
22:12:14linuxstbI can't remember (and I implemented them...)
22:12:26*GodEater hunts for it
22:12:36Mikachuare you sure it wasn't me?
22:12:50LloreanYeah, the real control is a hold trigger toggle
22:13:14linuxstbMikachu: You're talking about Rockboy? I think I used your wheel patch, but I don't think you patched Rockboy - as it didn't run on the Nano at that time.
22:13:16LloreanGodEater: Too late, he fixed it.
22:13:23LloreanGodEater: The whole post simply said "error compiling using cygwin in windows"
22:13:29Mikachuah okay, you meant the rockboy side
22:14:08GodEaterhe fixed it ?
22:14:14*GodEater 's cache must be slow
22:14:31 Quit dan_a (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:14:42hcsBiptoN: running scaling-test2.diff (rebuilt main program and bootloader) now
22:15:03mindframein linux do i need to unmount the device before i tell ipodpatcher to install the image?
22:15:18GodEatermindframe: nope
22:15:41Mikachumindframe: you don't install the image on the same partition that's mounted, if you're talking ipods
22:16:05*GodEater hopes to hell he is talking ipods. Otherwise why use ipodpatcher ?
22:16:09mindframei know, i was just wondering if there would be a problem with installing the image while /dev/sdb2 is mounted
22:16:13 Join dan_a [0] (n=dan-mirc@
22:16:22mindframetrying this again and this time im going to eject
22:16:25mindframewoop woop
22:16:34Mikachuit may take a while before eject returns
22:16:35GodEatermindframe: it doesn't matter - ipodpatcher doesn't touch the mounted partition
22:16:45Mikachulonger the more data you transferred
22:16:59Mikachu(which is why it seems a good idea to do it)
22:17:02GodEaterjust wait till the spinning icon in the top left corner of the ipod's display disappears
22:17:10GodEaterthat's what I always do
22:17:19Mikachui wait until eject exits
22:17:27mindframewell ive had corrupted rockbox files when i do that
22:17:34mindframei get -2 error on boot
22:17:40Mikachudon't trust it when it says safe to unplug :)
22:17:51GodEaterer - but that's the rockbox.ipod
22:17:56GodEaternothing to do with ipodpatcher
22:18:03BagderI've always done plain "umount"
22:18:58Bagder...since before ehci was even in the kernel
22:19:20Mikachuheh, oldtimer
22:19:20GodEaterusb 1,1 eh ? :)
22:19:31*GodEater remembers those days
22:19:37Bagderyeah, there was a "usb 2.0" patch for quite some time
22:20:05mindframealright ive got a clean vfat fs with rockbox.ipd and .rockbox folder, just successfully applied rockbox bootloader - hope this works
22:20:10 Join tucoz [0] (n=martin@rockbox/staff/tucoz)
22:20:20mindframedoes there need to be anything besides read permissions on rockbox.ipod ?
22:20:20 Join pixelma [0] (i=pixelma@
22:20:30Mikachuit's fat, it doesn't have permissions
22:20:40*GodEater echos Mikachu
22:20:46Bagderor rather it always have permission ;-)
22:20:52GodEatertrue :)
22:20:52*linuxstb mentions the attrib command
22:21:00Mikachuit doesn't have per-file permissions*
22:21:13GodEaterattrib doesn't allow "no read" permissions
22:21:16GodEaterit allows "read only"
22:21:42mindframeyayyyyy i did it
22:21:45mindframeeject was the key
22:21:50Mikachuah yes, attrib, which is only a friendly hint to file managers not to delete files when you press delete
22:22:02mindframedid the exact same thing before, apparently it didnt like just umount
22:22:06Mikachuand has 4 attributes that do the same thing :)
22:22:19Mikachumindframe: it would probably work with umount and wait a couple of seconds too
22:22:43GodEaterarg isn't a good sign
22:22:46mindframenow i click this rockbox thing and it goes to rockbox image
22:22:54mindframerolo loading, executing
22:22:59*GodEater slaps his forehead
22:23:02mindframeversion unkown
22:23:03GodEaternot another one
22:23:05tucozBagder, are those since 2.5 ... links supposed to work?
22:23:08massiveHyou are loading rockbox...
22:23:08*linuxstb slaps GodEater's forehead
22:23:16Bagdertucoz: I don't know
22:23:21GodEatermindframe: don't click on the rockbox icon
22:23:23Lloreanmindframe: Once you see the filetree, you're IN rockbox. You shouldn't be roloing the image again.
22:23:25massiveHwhich is already loaded
22:23:25GodEaterit's just reloads it
22:23:31Bagderhm yes they should
22:23:45mindframeoh ok lol i was waiting for a gui
22:23:45mattzzBagder, I put my images under">
22:23:51mindframesorry for being rockbox newb
22:23:54GodEatermindframe: now read the manual section on the database
22:23:55mindframertfm maybe
22:24:08tucozmindframe, everone is a noob at some point
22:24:08GodEateryes ideally read the whole thing
22:24:19linuxstbThere will be a test later.
22:24:30GodEaterlinuxstb will mark it
22:24:32massiveHtest, what test?!
22:24:46linuxstbBiptoN: After about 10 minutes, my ipod has frozen.
22:25:58*GodEater thinks cygwin poster has managed to wipe his PATH variable
22:26:06tomalCan someone tell me what is the status of the idea to have a voice codec linked to its address?
22:26:34linuxstbDo you mean linked into the Rockbox core?
22:26:39tomalOr some other ideas to decrease memory requirements of a voice codec and swap buffers?
22:26:41preglowtomal: it's been talked about, that's all
22:26:47mindframei like the hold switch to load original firmware :)
22:27:25tomallinuxstb: not necessarily, maybe linked to a different address than other codecs
22:27:28preglowtomal: as for unrolling the dct32, it's fully doable, but in the same time, it'll become much slower. at least that's what i think
22:28:12linuxstbAre we waiting to evaluate speex as an alternative voice codec?
22:28:14GodEaterheh - loving the pointless argument over which cpu is in the c200 ;)
22:28:17LloreanGodEater: "Hosed" being a fully understandable technical term?
22:28:28LloreanGodEater: It's not an argument, it's a "we need to figure out how to guess"
22:28:32*GodEater grumbles and goes to clarify
22:28:44BagderGodEater: it isn't pointless if/when the port takes off
22:28:58*Llorean would *love* to see Speex for his audiobooks.
22:29:04preglowit's on the tracker :>
22:29:07saratogaso has anyone measured teh cpu in the c200
22:29:15saratogathe 24 and 22 aren't the same size
22:29:37tomalpreglow: On iFP SRAM access is very slow, so somewhat more compact dct32 would be faster
22:29:40GodEaterpardon me - I didn't realise we knew so much about PP chips it mattered overly to us which flavour they were
22:29:42Bagdersaratoga: zefie is the only known owner of a c200 ;-)
22:29:57linuxstbGodEater: There's a big difference between the 5020/1/2 and the 5024.
22:29:58GodEaterI shall forthwith remain silent on the subject
22:30:04 Join amiconn_ [0] (
22:30:12tomalpreglow: can you point me to smaller implementations of dct32?
22:30:35 Quit freqmod (Remote closed the connection)
22:30:36GodEaterlinuxstb: they're not register compatible anymore ?
22:30:56linuxstbYes, but the 5024 has different hardware modules inside. e.g. the DAC.
22:31:04Bagderand it lacks ATA
22:31:23GodEaterah yes - I recall MrH's NAND writings...
22:31:29GodEaterLlorean: cygwin post: is that better ?
22:32:10LloreanThat's fine, aye
22:32:18preglowtomal: well, there's the implementation you see in wikipedia, that's a small loop, but it's extremely slow
22:32:35preglowtomal: part of the reason for unrolling is that that's what you need to do to refactor the maths
22:32:48GodEaterright - it feels like it's past my bedtime. G'night all.
22:32:50 Quit GodEater ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby")
22:32:55preglowif you're putting it back in loop form, you need to do all the heavy unnecessary math you avoided with unrolling
22:33:07tomalpreglow: yes, this is slow, but what about something based on fft?
22:33:31preglowtomal: the dct can be calculated as an fft, yes
22:33:43preglowand if it's 32 point, it can even be done with a radix-2 fft
22:33:45amiconn_tomal: Did you try using -Os for libmad?
22:33:59amiconn_It should make smaller yet more optimised code than just -O
22:34:02 Join EbErT [0] (
22:34:17tomalamiconn_: no. I'll try now.
22:35:31EbErTis there a way to keep an id3 database when updating rockbox?
22:35:52preglowugh, that dct32 is a big bastard, yes
22:35:55EbErTand i also am wondering if i need to update the id3 config file (last time i didn't)
22:36:36saratogai didn't realize the iFP port was still in the works
22:36:45saratogahows that coming?
22:36:52 Join midgey [0] (
22:37:47tomalsaratoga: Well, I have very little time for it. However, Philips recently released a datasheet for a chip similar to PNX0101.
22:37:50 Quit midgey (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
22:38:45EbErTanyone have solutions, or should i look somewhere in the manual?
22:38:49tomalThe current problem is that neither vorbis nor mp3 plays in realtime. I have to optimize the codecs
22:39:54Bagdertomal: are you sure you're running the cpu core in a "proper" speed?
22:39:58n1sEbErT: just unzip the new onto the root of your player to update, no need to delete the databes
22:40:13linuxstb_tomal: What speed is your ARM, and is there a cache?
22:40:37EbErTn1s: but i want to keep my wps, ect
22:40:44Mikachuthe ARM is faster than the eye
22:40:58tomalI'm pretty sure that I run it at 60 MHz with 8 kB cache.
22:41:03EbErTwait, where is the database located?
22:41:16n1swell, you don't need to delete that either, and it will be kept unless it's named the same as an official one
22:41:38tomalHowever, maybe I could tweak SRAM timings. I haven't tried that yet.
22:41:41saratogathat should be pretty fast, even the pp5002 with broken cache can do realtime ogg
22:41:52saratogamaybe the memory is very slow?
22:41:55dan_asaratoga: No it can't
22:42:00saratogait can't?
22:42:12saratogamaybe i'm thinking of flac then
22:42:12dan_aIt can do mpc, but that's it for the lossy codecs
22:42:30dan_aflac works realtime
22:42:37linuxstb_Did you try ac3? Although I'm not sure if that's very fast on ARM.
22:42:37 Quit lowlight ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:42:40EbErTim updating from one daily build to another, is that the same n1s ?
22:42:55Mikachudoes rb handle >2 channel ac3?
22:43:01n1syes, just unzip it on to you player, don't delete anything
22:43:09linuxstb_Yes, liba52 has built-in downmixing.
22:43:23tomallinuxstb_: is it this big (~400kB) codec? It doesn't fit in iFP 1MB memory.
22:44:13preglowac3 should be small
22:44:23EbErT1 last thing: what is the id3 database called?
22:45:15 Quit massiveH ("CGI:IRC 0.5.7 (2005/06/19)")
22:45:40linuxstb_And it looks like there's no malloc'ing.
22:45:46tomalOk, I meant aac.
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22:46:23 Nick tucoz_ is now known as tucoz (i=50ca62ea@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:46:24linuxstb_aac is a different beast entirely - big and slow.
22:46:43 Quit amiconn (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:46:43 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
22:46:50linuxstb_(at least, our version)
22:47:05tomalI did not try a52. I have to encode something in this format first.
22:47:33linuxstb_Most DVDs have an a52 (ac3) audio stream - so it's easy to rip an example file from there.
22:48:08linuxstb_(mplayer -dumpaudio -dumpfile file.ac3 file.vob)
22:49:01Mikachuis ac3 and a52 the same thing? i find it a bit confusing
22:49:16Mikachui have both an a52dec and ac3dec (not the same program)
22:49:46saratogaheres some samples for ac3
22:49:56saratoga(5.1 though if that matters)
22:50:14preglowthey're the same thing
22:50:23linuxstb_Mikachu: Yes. I think A52 is the name given to it by the American Television Standards Committee (ATSC). ac3 is probably Dolby's name for it.
22:50:24 Join anathema [0] (
22:50:45linuxstb_The ATSC have published the standard, but it's probably patented by Dolby....
22:51:15Mikachui wonder how hard it is to vorbis encode a multichannel ac3 stream...
22:51:24Mikachunot that i have more than two speakers :)
22:51:43linuxstb_You're suggesting a lossy->lossy conversion? :)
22:52:07Mikachuac3 streams on dvds are usually quite high bitrate
22:52:14Mikachuand dts, is that just another standard?
22:52:18Mikachui saw that on one dvd
22:52:21linuxstb_That's different.
22:52:27Mikachuthe only difference i could hear is the track was much louder :)
22:52:33saratogaDTS is like a less efficient AC3
22:52:48saratogathough both are at such high bitrates, that they're transparent
22:52:53LloreanDTS is not just a less efficient AC3
22:52:59LloreanDTS also supports higher sample rates.
22:53:01preglowthey're not really the same at all
22:53:03hcsyay, I have a real name
22:53:15saratogayes they're competing formats
22:53:19BagderI forgot to add you there previously
22:53:25linuxstb_But aren't they both from Dolby?
22:53:31LloreanIn many cases there's a quite audible difference between AC3 and DTS on my home system.
22:53:51preglowsmall wonder
22:53:58preglowac3 is a transform codec, dts is not
22:54:33LloreanThough my receiver seems to play with the bass whether I want it to or not. =/
22:55:18 Join arkascha [0] (
22:55:25saratogathe levels are going to be different most likely
22:55:34Hotfusionyeah I love my surround
22:55:37saratogayou're probably not going to be able to ABX them though, once they're level matched
22:55:41*linuxstb_ spots a dtsdec.c in ffmpeg...
22:55:46Hotfusionmarantz mm9000 amp
22:55:50Mikachuyeah i could play it in mplayer
22:56:34dan_aDoes anyone know of any reasons why a 4G greyscale iPod would never unboost?
22:56:35 Quit arkascha (Remote closed the connection)
22:57:57 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (n=thunderc@
22:58:05 Join midgey [0] (
22:58:56dan_aHmph. This makes testing the patches in FS #6095 a little tricky
23:00:23tucozBagder: do you know what happens in the At&t case?
23:00:28preglowlinuxstb_: it depends on another lib, afaik
23:00:36Bagdertucoz: nothing I guess
23:00:43linuxstb_preglow: Yes, I just spotted that it didn't actually contain a decoder....
23:00:44Mikachu% ldd =mplayer|grep dts => /usr/lib/
23:01:04linuxstb_aka libdca - threatened by lawyers...
23:01:24tucozthats too bad. it would be nice if they would respond at least
23:02:01 Quit perl|wtf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:03:14linuxstb_libdca/dts seems nicely fixed-point.
23:03:34linuxstb_It seems to be based on liba52.
23:05:10preglowlinuxstb_: have you actually looked at the code? the configure script used to incorrectly have a fixed point option
23:05:36tomalCompiling libmad with -O and -Os seems to give the same codec.
23:06:06 Join Alonea [0] (
23:06:14 Quit pyrokenx (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:08:08linuxstb_preglow: You're right... :(
23:08:43tomalOk, I have to go. Good night.
23:08:45 Quit tomal ("leaving")
23:09:18 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC")
23:09:57dan_aAh. If there is a .voice file present then it runs at 100% boost.
23:12:21 Join Thundercloud__ [0] (n=thunderc@
23:13:02EbErTdoes the tagnavi.config file need to be updated every time?
23:13:51amiconndan_a: There's a problem with unboosting since I don't know when
23:14:00BiptoNlinuxstb_: did you use a playlist or just start playing music from a folder?
23:14:04amiconnThe boost counter isn't zero after booting
23:14:19amiconnThat's on *all* swcodec targets which have cpu scaling
23:14:30tucozbluebrother: for the logs. When you run make on the manual now, it complains about a missing file (...platform/ This is because the TOOLSDIR is pointing to manual/platform instead of the tools dir. I do not know how to fix this, but i am sure you know.
23:14:35linuxstb_BiptoN: Just from a folder.
23:14:35amiconnNobody seems to have an idea how to fix it...
23:15:15dan_aamiconn: The boost tracking work should help with that, shouldn't it?
23:15:34 Part tucoz
23:15:37amiconnIt's possible that this only applies when a voice file is present - I have voice files installed on all my targets
23:16:13dan_aThat seems to be the case - turning off voice menus didn't help, but taking off the voice file did
23:16:30linuxstb_I've never noticed the boosting problem - and I don't have any voice files...
23:16:55amiconnIt's one reason why I don't actually use my swcodec targets often
23:17:09amiconnAtm I do use my archos recorder like 95% of the time
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23:19:11BiptoNmine locked when i loaded my 1k+ playlist
23:19:19BiptoNfrom folder to folder it's been solid
23:21:23dan_aRobert Cotey's patch (which keeps the frequencies the same but changes the multipliers and dividers) seems to be working for me at the moment
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23:31:20dan_aOK, forget that.
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23:33:13linuxstb_The thing that confuses me about this problem is that some builds seem to work a lot more reliably than others - for no apparent reason.
23:35:07dan_aMy gut feeling is that it's something like trying to reclock the PLL too soon after the last change.
23:35:27Lloreandan_a: That's actually kinda what my "I know nothing about the problem" sense was saying today.
23:36:30 Quit Thundercloud_ (Connection timed out)
23:36:38Bagderman, my spam box is >1GB...
23:36:45Bagdersince jan 18
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23:36:53Bagderlucky me
23:37:03dan_aI think that's why I'm starting to see problems on the 3g that were not there before - as more optimisations go in, it is boosting and unboosting more frequently
23:37:05HotfusionI have to say rockbox does get good battery life on my mp3 player. I ran it a couple of hours the day before yesterday 1-2 hours. Then yesterday I accidentally ran it fro 5pm to 6am non stop. And it still had 4 hours left
23:37:08Hotfusionvery nice
23:37:28dan_aHotfusion: Which player?
23:37:35Hotfusionmy X5L iAudio
23:37:54HotfusionI turend on my car this morning and it was playing
23:37:59HotfusionI was like dang it's still going
23:38:15amiconnX5L is built for good battery life
23:38:17linuxstb_dan_a: IIRC, hcs wrote a patch which kept the PLL clocked at the same speed, but just selected and deselected it - switching between 24Mhz and 75MHz. That seemed to work for him and me, but then others reported freezes...
23:38:32amiconnI'd expect it to go for 30+ hours per charge
23:39:01dan_alinuxstb_: That's the one I've just built to test on my 4g greyscale
23:39:24Hotfusionthe two separate batteries in it are still good. But I'd hate to replace them finding replacements, measurements of battery and mAh may be difficult
23:39:26Hotfusionbut not impossible
23:40:05dan_aI think that the coprocessor might get woken up sometimes too. MrH's document seemed to suggest that, and the fact that running with a kernel on the COP helps would point that way.
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23:40:45linuxstb_Yes, my feeling is that the COP is involved somewhere - as the PP5020s seem to have more COP problems than the other targets.
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23:41:25Hotfusiondo you guys have other suggestions than the $50 headphones on ebay (new Sennheiser HD435? Tht's about what I want to spend
23:41:41HotfusionI got some RCA ones from wally world and they really are bad
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23:42:02Hotfusionit needs a battery just to achive better volumes lol
23:42:31scorcheHotfusion: browse head-fi.....this is #rockbox, where we discuss rockbox related things...
23:42:49Hotfusionthere people in there
23:42:56BiptoNi ran a frequency of 8mhz gottent from 24/3 yesterday with no problems
23:43:10BiptoNa thought that it changes clock speed less often
23:43:22BiptoNfrom 40-80
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23:43:37Hotfusionis head-fi a channel?
23:43:38BiptoNthat's only 5 different settings with multipliers of 8
23:43:44AloneaHotfusion: buds, hook ons (and variations of), or phones? Best Buy has some nice ones. Sony is a good brand.
23:44:01HotfusionI did /j head-fi and no one is there
23:44:07scorcheHotfusion: google for head-fi
23:49:37 Quit _aLF ("^^")
23:50:55BiptoNhotfusion: sennheisers have been the best soundin headphones i've heard
23:51:04BiptoNi have some
23:51:12BiptoNand we use em for monitoring at church
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