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#rockbox log for 2007-01-26

00:03:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:04:32 Quit OgMaciel ("gone home")
00:06:29*argonel hopes asm make with the data sheet soon
00:07:08argonelone day on the manufacturers firmware and i hate it already
00:08:26n1swell someone will have to write a driver when (if) they get a data sheet so don't expect anything too soon ;-)
00:08:30 Join Zagor [0] (
00:15:56 Join MadCow [0] (
00:18:39 Part n1s
00:19:05 Quit tamacracker (Remote closed the connection)
00:19:29dan_ahcs's frequency scaling patch seems to work pretty well for me
00:20:32dan_aIt would be interesting to see what effects it has on battery life - the normal frequency is lowered, so we spend more time boosted.
00:20:42 Join perl|wtf [0] (
00:22:18 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
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00:22:54 Quit Redbreva (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:23:10 Quit MadCow (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:26:07 Quit MarcoPolo ("Bye !")
00:27:13Zagorthere. all the left-side menus should be correct now ('svn builds' instead of 'cvs builds')
00:28:46Mikachused -i s/cvs/svn/ /dev/hda
00:29:22linuxstbIs it just me, or does the menu move when you select "wiki" or "index" under Documentation? i.e. the wiki html/css is slightly different to the main site?
00:29:40Mikachuit moves down half a line
00:29:50Mikachulike there was an extra <br> after svn builds
00:29:51Zagordoesn't move for me in opera
00:30:11Mikachuactually i think the spacing between every heading increases
00:30:14Zagorhowever 'manual' moves up half a line
00:30:33Mikachui don't think anyone will stop using rockbox because of it
00:30:48Zagorlooks like the menu in twiki pages has larger spacing
00:31:07Mikachuthe boxes at the bottom also have wildly different spacing both above and below
00:31:07linuxstbThe wiki html seems to have extra empty paragraph elements in the menu - <p />
00:31:16argoneln1s: i'll write the driver myself if necessary
00:31:37Zagorlinuxstb: weird
00:32:32linuxstbIt seems every blank line in the main website's html has a <p /> in the wiki...
00:34:05Zagorindeed. the wiki template parser is doing a bit more than we ask of it...
00:34:20linuxstbVery helpful.
00:36:12Zagorhmm, our preprocessor is inserting blank lines here and there. and then the wiki parser converts them into <p />. sed to the rescue!
00:37:40midkayhey, Zagor?
00:38:04Mikachuyea who?
00:38:30Mikachui'm not sure where i was going with that
00:38:52 Join My_Sic [0] (
00:39:06midkaywhile you're here.. I think you need to be an administrator to do this: on the wiki, there are some "global" images (like %Y% gives a checkbox icon). can you make another icon work like this?
00:39:27 Quit blind (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
00:39:32ZagorI think so, yes. what would you like?
00:39:48 Join aliask [0] (
00:39:59midkaythis is the one, it's attached to the MajorChanges page so it can be used there, but it makes the code waay ugly to have <img src=blablabla> alongside simple %Y% and %X% tags.
00:41:03Zagorok, I'll look at it
00:41:35midkaythanks. also, I seem to recall coming across a page that showed all of them somewhere, but I can't remember where that was.. if you come across it, i'd like to see it please :)
00:42:46 Quit Thundercloud_ (Connection timed out)
00:43:34 Join blind [0] (
00:43:41 Quit Alonea (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:44:34 Join TerrorByte [0] (i=4889ede5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:44:54aliaskAnyone know where I could get a hold of a 1.8" ribbon cable type harddrive enclosure?
00:45:19amiconnmidkay: Relatively easy to find...
00:45:38TerrorByteCan someone tell me how to actually use a patch?
00:45:44midkayamiconn: ah, thanks. i did try a few variations of that, neither worked...
00:45:47TerrorByteJust point me in the right direction?
00:45:57aliaskTerrorByte: You using windows or linux?
00:46:22aliaskGot cygwin?
00:46:23TerrorByteI want to try the Rockboy patch for the H10 20 GB.
00:46:24Zagorthere, wiki menu is properly spaced again. clearing cache now.
00:46:32Zagoramiconn: yikes, that's a lot of icons!
00:46:36linuxstbTerrorByte: Follow these links -
00:46:43TerrorByteErr no.
00:46:58amiconnmidkay: From an arbitrary editing form, click "More formatting help" at the bottom. In the popup window there's a link to the doc graphics
00:47:20aliaskTerrorByte: To apply a patch you need to be able to compile the source code
00:47:21TerrorByteI see.
00:47:33amiconn(near the bottom)
00:48:02TerrorByteI'm lost already.
00:48:03midkayamiconn: good to know. i guess that's how i got there last time, but i don't remember it as being a page meant to be seen by most people.
00:48:14aliaskTerrorByte: How badly do you want to do this, it's not really that easy.
00:48:14 Quit ender` (" An eye for an eye only leads to more blindness. -- Margaret Atwood")
00:48:43TerrorBytePretty badly?
00:48:49TerrorByteCan you guide me through this?
00:49:00aliaskNot really, I'm going to be leaving in about 5 mins
00:49:00LloreanTerrorByte: You can't just wait for the patch to be officially included?
00:49:15LloreanTerrorByte: You're going to *have* to do a lot of work on your own. Just read one of the guides to compiling and follow it.
00:49:19aliaskTerrorByte: This is likely to take you over an hour.
00:49:37TerrorByteI see.
00:49:46TerrorByteIs there any way you can apply the patch and send me the files?
00:50:05aliaskSure, which patch, which target?
00:50:11linuxstbBut compiling your own build is a skill worth learning - it gives you lots of options for customising Rockbox yourself.
00:50:15TerrorByteIf that's not a possibility, I will wait for it to be oficially included.
00:50:26TerrorByteI need the H10 20 GB.
00:50:29TerrorBytePatch is the rockboy patch.
00:50:29TerrorByteHold on, lemme get link.
00:50:55LloreanTerrorByte: You really should just learn to do it yourself.
00:51:02LloreanYou've been in here asking for patches before.
00:51:10TerrorByteNo I haven't.
00:51:24TerrorByteI wanted a patch for multiple keys.
00:51:33TerrorByteOr just something done about that....
00:51:38LloreanYou wanted it to be coded for you that time.
00:51:46LloreanBut it's still an aspect of the same thing, simply compiling your own build.
00:52:39Zagor2006-10-29 04.15.04 # <TerrorByte> Also, how do I apply a .patch?
00:52:48Zagorlogbot never forgets :)
00:52:59 Quit blind (Remote closed the connection)
00:53:02 Join blind [0] (
00:53:15TerrorByteYou see, I'm not upset that you were able to find that and rub it in my face.
00:53:24TerrorByteIt's just that this is always what's brought up.
00:53:28TerrorByteWell whatever.
00:53:44TerrorByteIf nothing can be done, I'll wait.
00:53:57LloreanWhat's brought up? That you said something that turned out not to be true, or that something *can* be done, but *you* are unwilling to do it.
00:54:10linuxstbTerrorByte: aliask has already offered to compile it for you...
00:54:34 Quit entheh ("^~")
00:54:41TerrorByteMuch appreciated.
00:54:49aliaskWiki search is broken
00:54:56aliaskUh, how do you do a svn checkout?
00:55:06aliasksvn co svn://
00:55:24Zagoraliask: ow. examining.
00:55:28preglowsafetydan: why not just commit that?
00:55:28Llorean svn co svn:// foldername
00:55:29LloreanI think
00:55:43Zagoryou can skip foldername if you want it called 'rockbox'
00:55:50midkayhmm. @ developers: i was just thinking about the #ifdef hell that is apps/plugins/SOURCES and i think it might be a good idea to totally overhaul this file, what sounds like a good approach to me is an #ifdef section for each possible target so you can quickly and easily add a plugin for specific targets or see what any given plugin is compiling for. any thoughts?
00:55:54safetydanpreglow, commit what? The partial patch? Because AFAIK, it will break all older voice and translation files
00:56:01LloreanZagor: If you don't type a foldername, it ends up in a folder named trunk, actually. Or it did for me.
00:56:05preglowsafetydan: why, that's a good point
00:56:19ZagorLlorean: oh, right. it uses the last "dir name" of the path.
00:56:19midkayor maybe a different design, but i think the current nested ifdef mess is pretty annoying to deal with.
00:56:24linuxstbmidkay: Do you mean duplicate plugins for each target?
00:56:41Zagoraliask: svn co svn:// rockbox
00:56:43LloreanZagor: Not a real problem, honestly, but 'trunk' isn't the most descriptive if you've put it somewhere not clearly just for Rockbox stuff. :)
00:56:51preglowmidkay: can't say i like the sound of it
00:57:00aliaskZagor: Thanks
00:57:10midkaylinuxstb: i mean one entry per supported plugin on a per-target basis..
00:57:16midkayany other ideas? :)
00:57:17ZagorI forget the order of 'trunk' and 'rockbox' myself
00:57:46aliaskAt least it's a LOT simpler than CVS
00:57:51linuxstbmidkay: Fix all the plugins which don't work on certain platforms? :)
00:57:59aliaskI'd have to go to the wiki to copy the lines out every time.
00:58:05midkaylinuxstb: haha. something a tad easier? ;)
00:58:12Zagoraliask: hehe
00:58:20Lloreanlinuxstb: There are a couple plugins only useful on certain targets, though
00:58:28 Quit funky ("leaving")
00:58:44preglowi really don't like duplicating stuff that don't need duplicating
00:59:23midkaywhat about something a little bit shorter then, like.. forget all the ifdef-rtc, ifdef-swcodec stuff, just make an entire list of all the plugin .c files and ifdef/ifndef any of them that aren't fully supported on all players?
00:59:52preglowi like that better
00:59:57LloreanYou could also just have all plugins compile, and have the plugin .c files themselves determine if they get compiled or end up empty for that player?
01:00:08*amiconn thinks the ifdefing in apps/plugins/SOURCES isn't that complex
01:00:24preglowamiconn: i don't really think so either, but it could be better
01:00:28linuxstbamiconn: I agree, but it's starting to get messy again...
01:00:34linuxstbDidn't you clean it up recently?
01:00:35preglowit is
01:00:35midkayamiconn: it's way more than it needs to be, i think.. everything's way nested and overlapping and duplicated...
01:00:45preglowi've managed to mess it up a couple of times
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01:02:01midkayLlorean has an interesting idea.. at the end of each plugin's keymapping, have an #else that stops the compiling of that file? is that possible? i can't think of how personally though..
01:02:25linuxstbkeymapping isn't enough to determine if the plugin works.
01:02:28JdGordon#else #error "blaa"
01:02:47midkaybut will that keep the compiler going on to the next file?
01:02:50Zagorthat makes it a lot more difficult to see which plugins are supported. you'd have to open every source file.
01:02:59midkaythat's true..
01:02:59bluebrothercounting the errors caught by the build system will get fun then ;-)
01:02:59LloreanThat's very true
01:03:03Mikachumake will stop on errors unless you run make -k
01:03:12Mikachuin which case it will continue even if it gets a "real" error
01:03:18midkaymaybe i'll play with SOURCES and i'll post it up for review if i come up with anything.
01:04:14 Part Llorean
01:04:49linuxstbHmm, the #ifndef HAVE_MMC around alpine_cdc.c seems an odd choice...
01:05:43amiconnThe comment explains why
01:05:47linuxstbI know...
01:05:55amiconnIt's not 100% clean, I know
01:06:00midkayindeed.. that's how the sources file seems to me.. quite hacky.
01:06:09amiconnImho "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" applies here
01:06:26midkayi don't wanna fix it, just improve it :)
01:06:30Mikachuif it's broke, give it money
01:06:39amiconnThere is the general split: all-targets/charcell/bitmap
01:06:52 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
01:06:57 Quit mirak ("Ex-Chat")
01:07:00amiconnThen there are some inevitable special cases, which could be grouped together
01:07:15safetydanAnyone have a good idea for how to name features for the lang files? Currently I have something like #ifdef HAVE_HEADPHONE_DETECTION headphone_detection #endif
01:07:18amiconnAnd then there are those cases which should be fixed by adapting the plugin...
01:07:22safetydanseems a bit wordy
01:08:19amiconnBrickmania for the sansa (needs graphics)
01:08:45amiconnMetronome for the sim (needs timer simulation or alternate code in the plugin)
01:09:23amiconnCalendar needs adapting to all the rtc targets (currently recorder only)
01:09:44linuxstbMaybe simply adding some indentation would clarify it.
01:10:08Mikachui suggested indenting the ifdefs in the code once and everyone looked at me like i was from mars
01:10:23linuxstbI like mars.
01:10:37Mikachui like twix betters
01:10:46amiconnfireworks, xobox: Why are these not possible on the archos lcd? What about rockpaint on non-colour targets?
01:11:04Zagorsafetydan: if anything, I think it's better to be a little to wordy than a little too cryptic
01:11:29preglowamiconn: problem with stuff like that is that it can end up broken quite quickly
01:11:35Zagoreuhh, well you get it
01:11:35safetydanZagor, true. I'll just keep going with it as it is then.
01:11:44amiconnAnd finally: Why is iriver_flash a separate plugin instead of integrating it into rockbox_flash?
01:11:55 Quit aliask ("Chatzilla 0.9.76 [Firefox]")
01:12:25 Quit perl|wtf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:13:53 Quit blind (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:15:37amiconnpreglow: In what way? plugins/SOURCES isn't really long...
01:16:11*amiconn prefers the way ifdefing is done in plugins/SOURCES *much* over the way in firmware/SOURCES
01:16:29 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC")
01:16:44Mikachuthat #ifndef SIMULATOR is way too persistant all over the source tree
01:16:51Mikachuthe simulator needs more stubs and less polluting the source
01:17:02preglowamiconn: forget it, bad example
01:17:07 Quit TerrorByte ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:17:08amiconnIn firmware/SOUCRES, many source files are referenced multiple times, *very* easy to overlook one place
01:17:19Mikachuadd arbitrary amount of politeness to those two sentences
01:18:16amiconnI'd rather have each source file only listed once, and shuffle the ifdefs around, than the other way round
01:18:53JdGordonfirmware/SOURCES is neat now.. it used to be alot worse imo
01:18:56amiconnMikachu: stubs won't help with cases like metronome, but then it should be possible to simulate the timer...
01:18:57 Join blind [0] (
01:19:21amiconnJdGordon: Uh, you really think so?
01:20:07amiconnfirmware/SOURCES is ~600 lines, more than 4 times of plugins/SOURCES, and I had to add my ata asm file _9_ times (!!)
01:20:23amiconnPretty damn ugly, imho
01:22:07midkayi haven't seen it, but i can imagine that you mean "long" instead of "ugly". it sounds long but more easy to work with.
01:22:18*JdGordon wonders if its possibly to automatically generate the SOURCES files
01:22:25linuxstbI agree with amiconn - the duplication in firmware/SOURCES isn't nice.
01:22:56amiconnMaybe it depends *what* you are doing in there, but I find it way easier to work with plugins/SOURCES than with firmware/SOURCES
01:23:17amiconnErm, insert an 'on' where you see fit
01:24:07midkaylong or ugly are too extreme, we need a good compromise :)
01:24:19Mikachu"in need of improvement"
01:24:33JdGordonamiconn: I think the ata files are in the wrong place in f/SOURCEs anyway which is why you dont like it
01:24:37amiconnHehe, imho firmware/SOUCRES is both long and ugly, while plugins/SOUCRES is nothing of both
01:25:10JdGordonthe 2 files are used differently... firmware is much more player dependant than plugins
01:25:16JdGordonyou cant really compare them
01:25:44midkayplugins/SOURCES is a fine length, but i still just feel like the nested/duplicated ifdefs are a little perplexing to work with, especially when you've got a plugin that only works on select targets.
01:26:00amiconnMikachu: One idea would be that on the firmware/ side of things, the sim could be a target of its own
01:26:24amiconn..checking for features from the config files where necessary
01:26:25Zagormidkay: the only real alternative is to have a long a complex ifdef statement for each plugin.
01:26:36Mikachuthat makes sense to me
01:26:51Zagorwith &&, ||, ! and lots of ()
01:27:02 Quit toffe ("MegaIRC v3.27")
01:27:47midkayZagor: imo that sounds way nicer.. you can see what target each plugin is being built for and no confusing ifdefs..
01:27:53amiconnThis way the sim could even evolve into a nice player application, defining its own features if so desired
01:28:12amiconnI know that some people already like to use the sim as a music player
01:28:17Zagormidkay: I think you vastly underestimate the complexity of the needed ifdefs...
01:28:28Mikachumidkay: the point is to express plugins as a function of abilities rather than specific targets
01:28:39Mikachumidkay: so when you get a new target, it automatically gets the right plugins
01:28:44midkayMikachu: but a lot of plugins go against that.
01:28:51Mikachui was speaking ideallistically :)
01:29:01midkayyou'll still have to update all the plugins to use the new target, so you can *easily* modify one line in plugins/SOURCES.
01:29:33Zagorthe "features, not targets" philosophy is important
01:29:54amiconnImho one of the advantages of rockbox is that it's really multi-platform.
01:30:08amiconnAll plugins should be adapted to all targets if technically possible
01:30:16JdGordonunless you add a plugins/ file? so only plugins which work for the tagrte go there?
01:30:19midkayi agree for sure. but when lots of plugins don't work on targets they should, the ifdefing gets messy and hard to read.
01:30:36Mikachumidkay: see that as motivation to fix the plugins :)
01:30:54amiconnIf you ifdef every plugin separately, you support porting laziness... and it's rather hard to see which plugins still need adaption
01:30:54Zagormidkay: the fix is not to throw away the concept
01:31:21linuxstbZagor: The "features, not targets" isn't applied in firmware/SOURCES any more...
01:31:24amiconn...and you would make the line count explode
01:31:27midkaywell.. i didn't really mean ifdefing each one.
01:31:55midkayi don't know who came up with that idea. i just meant being a little more specific and organized with ifdefs, not nesting them like crazy.
01:32:10linuxstbI wonder why "#ifndef IRIVER_IFP7XX_SERIES /* Temporarily disable plugins for iFP7xx */" isn't at the top of SOURCES?
01:32:25Zagorlinuxstb: yes, it becomes a little more academic in firmware/. much of the firmware code is by nature specifically written for specific targets. that's hard to change.
01:33:23amiconnlinuxstb: Looks like the plugins before it are already working on iFP
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01:35:44JdGordondaurnimator: watching the hornets?
01:39:50 Join perldiver [0] (
01:43:06Zagorbed time. I'll try to fix wiki search tomorrow.
01:43:09 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
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01:53:08 Join km [0] (
01:53:32kmCould anyone help out with a quick question?
01:54:23safetydankm, best just ask your question and see what happens
01:54:38 Quit My_Sic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:55:24kmAlright, groovy. I've looked through the forums and didn't really find anything, though I may just be blind.
01:55:39daurnimatorJdGordon: the what?
01:55:42kmBut is it necessary to format your iPod (5.5G in my case) before installing RockBox?
01:55:48daurnimator(just woke up)
01:55:50Mikachukm: only if it's a mac ipod
01:55:52JdGordondaurnimator: dw
01:55:58linuxstbkm: Is it a 30GB or 80GB ipod?
01:56:02km30, thank god.
01:56:08JdGordonthe f/a-18 's were flying in your direction before
01:56:09kmI've heard about the issues regarding 80s.
01:56:38kmSo I just slap the firmwire on and it gives me an option for RockBoxOS or MacOS on bootup? Or am I missing something?
01:56:57 Quit muesli- ("ich will Khe!!!")
01:56:59 Join Llorean [0] (n=Llorean@rockbox/administrator/Llorean)
01:57:07Mikachuit'll boot rockbox by default, but you can boot apples os if you have hold on
01:57:11linuxstbSee the IpodFAQ -
01:57:21kmThanks guys.
01:57:25daurnimatorslept through jets flying overhead
01:57:45 Join Alonea [0] (
01:57:50JdGordondo they normally go as far as your place?
01:58:06JdGordonthey always fly over here... but im 4k close to the city than you :D
02:00:15kmAlright, sounds great. Thanks a lot guys! I was pretty much only interested in RockBox for the DOOM support but eh. ;D
02:00:35JdGordonyour not the only one for some reason :p
02:00:41scorchele sigh
02:00:49kmIndeed. When I heard about the ability to play DOOM on my iPod, I went 'nanners. ;o
02:01:13scorcheyou can also play it on your computer believe it or not
02:01:21Mikachuhaha, but that is not hardcore scorche
02:01:24kmHey man, some things you just have to try portable.
02:01:56kmAlrighty, well I shall be off then. If I have any other concerns I'll be back to bug y'all some more, but that will hopefully not be the case.
02:02:02daurnimatorJdGordon: they did
02:02:19 Quit km ()
02:02:38daurnimatoryou haven't played doom on a portable till you've played it on mine
02:02:41daurnimatorhey JdGordon ;)
02:04:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:04:26 Quit Criamos ("( :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: )")
02:07:38BiptoNlinuxstb: i have yet succeeded in loading apple_os.ipod yet, i tried both methods the supported and unsupported one
02:08:47BiptoNthe bootloader gets to "apple_os.ipod loaded" then reboots
02:09:24Mikachudoes it save time not having it in the bootloader image?
02:10:03zeare there wince-MIPS builds of the sim so i can have rockbox on my pda? :p
02:10:08daurnimatorlinuxstb: got your av300 yet?
02:10:13 Join ZenMasterJG [0] (n=jordan@
02:10:20daurnimatorbtw, what is the issue with the 30vs80 models?
02:10:22Mikachuze: doubt it :)
02:10:31daurnimator - can you put a 80gb hdd in a 30gb and have it work?
02:10:39daurnimatorcan you put a 30gb in a 80gb?
02:10:41 Join upsioned [0] (n=ju@
02:11:20amiconnAfawk the issue is the disk
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02:12:15amiconnSo if you put the 30GB disk into an 80GB model it would probably work, while putting the 80GB disk into a 30GB model it probably won't work
02:13:27daurnimatorbut can't you put the 80gb in other players? (iriver h340?)
02:13:40amiconnNo you can't (different connector)
02:13:42Lloreandaurnimator: They're ZIF connectors
02:13:53amiconnAnd if you could, it wouldn't work as well
02:13:54LloreanBiptoN: That feature used to work for me on the iPod Nano, at least.
02:13:57ZenMasterJGhey all. I'm in a software engineering class this semester, and we're to do a semester long project to develop some software. Me & my group were thinking of making an iTunes-like application, designed to work & sync with rockbox, as well as providing a simple RockBox installer & all the other usual iTunes features. Anyone think thats a good idea, or if there are similar projects out there I just haven't heard of?
02:14:13ZenMasterJG(whoops, that came out longer then I expected. Sorry.)
02:14:18amiconnWe do know now what causes the problem, but we don't have a fix yet
02:14:27MikachuZenMasterJG: i think you could do something more useful :)
02:14:37amiconnSome work in the fat driver and/or ata driver is necessary
02:14:42BiptoNllorean: it won't boot from the boot partition either
02:14:50 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:14:55daurnimatorZenMasterJG: depends, what gui kit will you use
02:14:58BiptoNoh well, nothin really worth usin in the apple os anyhoot
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02:15:15ZenMasterJGdaurnimator: it'll be written in python, using Tk, probably
02:15:20daurnimatorthen no
02:15:38ZenMasterJGwe're still drafting the proposal, so details are still up in the air
02:15:47ZenMasterJGdaurnimator: no, its not a good idea, or no, theres nothing similar?
02:16:05ZenMasterJGMikachu: eh, it sounds like a fun way to spend a semester though ;)
02:16:18LloreanZenMasterJG: There's already an official installer somewhat in the works.
02:16:43LloreanBut "iTunes" like features that integrate with the Rockbox database is something that nobody's done, I believe.
02:17:31 Quit Soul-Slayer (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
02:17:49ZenMasterJGLlorean: cool. If that installer comes out, i suppose we can just package it in, or slice out ours, since it'll all be GPLed
02:19:17ZenMasterJGalso, if we we're to call this software iRock, how long do you think it would be before we got sued? ;)
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02:19:42JdGordonyou wont... but that name sux :D
02:20:09ZenMasterJGya think? I thought it was funny. Got any better ideas? we were all scratching our heads over what to call it
02:20:40JdGordonthats one of the sucky parts of the soft eng proccess :p
02:22:30ZenMasterJGhaving a team that was half python fanatics and half perl junkies was pretty amusing too
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02:23:21zefieboo @ Bagder
02:23:40frogfootiNotes, iJazz, Treblecleff
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02:24:31safetydanZenMasterJG, then you need to write it in Parrot
02:24:42safetydankeep the python and the perl people happy
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02:26:24 Part frogfoot
02:26:28daurnimatorno, uts not a good idea
02:26:51ZenMasterJGdaurnimator: why not?
02:27:11daurnimatorTk is just.... not nice
02:27:37perldiverZenMasterJG ROCKplayer
02:28:11ZenMasterJGdaurnimator: we were thinking about taking a stab at wxPython, but none of us have used it before.
02:28:22daurnimatorQt is always nice
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02:28:47kmOookay.. lol. So apparently I have no volume. ;p
02:29:06kmOh, and I'm stuck in RockDOOM's sound settings menu.
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02:30:46ZenMasterJGdaurnimator: Qt is nice, it just always felt like too much overhead to me. Learning Qt is pretty involved, whereas Tk is fairly simple. So especially w/ 2 non-python developers, it could be tricky.
02:31:10ZenMasterJGWe haven't really decided yet, but I guess we'll have to get together some time and evaluate all the options
02:31:21daurnimatoryou can learn qt in a week or so
02:32:08ZenMasterJGyeah, I've barely played with it. I'll have to look again
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02:32:47safetydanThere's always .NET/Mono and Java :)
02:33:03daurnimatortheres also lua/IUP
02:34:35kmAnyone have any idea why I have no volume? Or is RockDOOM even supposed to have sound?
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02:35:09ZenMasterJGwe're all Java programmers, and we all decided as a group we'd rather try and swollow razorwire then deal with Swing if it can be avoided ;)
02:36:13safetydanSwing's not that bad. SWT's nice if you really can't stand Swing.
02:36:37safetydanJava 6 made a huge difference to speed of GUI apps if that's a concern.
02:38:14safetydanZenMasterJG, on a more practical note, I believe the current rockbox installer gui is written with wxWindows so maybe consider using that.
02:39:34ZenMasterJGsafetydan: Swing isn't that bad, its just the way some people write swing that makes me want to vomit. My last java job involved dealing with the old intern's totally stupid hand-crufted Swing code for the better part of 4 months
02:40:36ZenMasterJGsafetydan: and i'll look into the installer. Is there anything about it on the rockbox site? I poked around and didn't see anything, but with the way some stuff is organized on there, that doesn't mean that much
02:41:23daurnimatorZenMasterJG: i'm telling you that qt should be your choice
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02:41:35daurnimatormy head is muddled
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02:41:44daurnimatorrearrange that however you want
02:41:56safetydanZenMasterJG, the code is in SVN.
02:42:09ZenMasterJGsafetydan: nice, thanks
02:43:12ZenMasterJGdaurnimator: We'll certainly look at it. Like i said, i'm just finishing drafting up the proposal, so we've got plenty of time to review the options and decide as a group
02:43:28 Quit km ()
02:43:56daurnimatormaybe do it in C as well? python isn't great :P
02:45:36ZenMasterJGwe <3 python, and its great for a lot of things... just not performace. If we run into performace problems, i'll just re-write those bits in C ;)
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02:52:07safetydanin case anyone is doing extensive searching of the rockbox source: grep -r −−exclude=.svn −−include=*.[c\|h] <pattern> <rockbox-src-dir>
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02:58:25BiGRED84i have a question about the font converter
02:58:49tanqwhat is tools/ a part of?
02:59:37tanqi'm really just having a problem where the database keeps saying not ready..
02:59:52tanqi looked in the database.tmp.tcd file and it appears that all of the songs are indexed
03:00:22 Quit blind (Remote closed the connection)
03:00:37BiGRED84take along time for what u type to show up
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03:06:15TerrorByteCan anyone tell me why my iRiver H10 20GB doesn't recognize .m2v files anymore?
03:06:16TerrorByteWas there a change?
03:06:40 Join blind [0] (
03:06:53dan_aYes. Sound got added
03:07:27TerrorByteYou're freaking kidding.
03:07:31TerrorByteAre you serious?
03:07:42TerrorByteWhat's the extension and method required now?
03:08:20dan_aIt's all in :)
03:10:28TerrorByteIt plays .mpg files.
03:12:50TerrorByteWow, this is phenomenal.
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03:15:55TerrorByteLol, you said it so casually.
03:16:08TerrorByte"Yes. Sound got added"
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03:18:38elcaseygood evening...anyone have time to try to help me with an installation issue?
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03:24:55TerrorByteHow come the batch file isn't working.
03:25:01TerrorByteThis is what I'm trying:
03:25:12TerrorByte"C:\Progra~1\VideoLAN\vlc.exe" %1 vlc <input> vlc <input> vlc <input> −−sout=#transcode{vcodec=mp2v,vb=300,width=%WIDTH%,height=%HEIGHT%,acodec=mp3,ab=128,samplerate=44100}:std{access-video=file,mux=ps,dst-video=<filename>.mpg}
03:25:29pixelmaelcasey: it's better if you ask right away :) - someone who knows might see it and can answer
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03:25:43midgeydan_a: any idea which button is mapped to hold on the sims?
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03:27:44TerrorByteThe batch file for VLC Player on the PluginMpegplayer is not updated.
03:28:45midgeythat command you just typed creates an mpeg video with mpeg 2 video stream and mp3 audio stream
03:31:17TerrorByteDoesn't seem to be working.
03:31:24TerrorByteIt starts to create some random older file.
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03:35:57 Quit blind (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
03:36:30TerrorByteWhy am I not able to use VLCPlayer to convert?
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03:39:13TerrorByteWow, Elephant's Dream runs at 10 FPS.
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03:43:54max_gamminghey, maybe u guys get this alot, but i just started with rockbox, were do i download the video plugin, so i can watch video on my gigabeat f20
03:44:31midgeymax_gamming: mpegplayer comes with rockbox, you dont need to download anything
03:45:28max_gammingoh really, lol..
03:45:39max_gammingi feel stupid
03:46:07midgeya lot of people ask the same question, especially if they read the article in popular science
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03:48:28max_gammingso it supports only mpeg and only for files under 30mbs?
03:48:51midgeympeg 2 video, mp3 audio at 44.1 kHz
03:49:04midgeythere should be a limit on size
03:49:24TerrorByteThere's a file limit for the Gigabeat?
03:49:27 Quit Mouser_X3 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:49:41midgeyTerrorByte: No, I mistyped
03:49:59max_gammingoh ok.. thanks.. i just wasnt sure because i keeped reading things saying that it had a 30mb file limit
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03:53:01sekondchakrai'm wondering why my bookmarking has stopped working... (I no longer get prompted)
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03:59:54pixelmaquit .
04:00:01pixelmaoops :)
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04:29:45midgeyLlorean: care to try the newest rockboy patch on your nano? unscaled mode wont freeze anymore
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04:32:57Lloreanmidgey: Sorry, somewhat busy at the moment
04:33:20midgeyno problem, i wont be committing today anyway
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04:56:18tanqok so i just ran and it created 7 tcd files from two songs
04:56:38tanqi thought it was supposed to create one database
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05:08:22Lloreantanq: The database is several files
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05:18:58tanqyeah is slow as well.
05:19:28tanqi'm trying to tweak it.. maybe i can speed it up
05:19:30*tanq shrugs
05:20:44LloreanI don't really use database, but the few times I have I've just made it on-target
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05:33:03JdGordon_daurnimator mate, you bored?
05:33:53daurn|zaurusa bit
05:34:33JdGordon_anyone wanna help me with some mind numbing "coding" that needs to be done? I have to put a LANG_ id into each item in settings_list.c (about 200 of them), ive done about 30 :p
05:34:50daurnimatoruse a regex?
05:35:43JdGordon_the lang id needs to be chosen from english.lang, and here is no regex would make that even half workable
05:39:16daurnimatorwhat you doing for oz day?
05:39:23JdGordon_nothing :p
05:39:41JdGordon_sitting here, doing this boring hacking which is stopping my compile from working :p
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05:41:41*JdGordon_ is gong to chuck a mental when a text-to-speech engine is implemented making the lang id's redundant :p
05:43:52z35 /j #gentoo
05:46:18*JdGordon_ assumes almost noone uses the player anymore...
05:46:35JdGordon_no one has mentioned the 2 settings not saving that I just found are missing
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05:52:26triplah_here is a patch to get rockbox ipods working in quodlibet if anyone is interested
05:55:21daurnimatori'm doing... nothing
05:56:57*Llorean doesn't even know what quodlibet is, and goes reading
05:57:22 Quit ZenMasterJG (Remote closed the connection)
05:57:22daurnimatorcrap media player on linux
05:58:55LloreanI don't even use PC-based media players for anything other than someone saying "Hey, my friends and I just recorded this song, listen to it"
06:00:27*JdGordon_ wonders how me so far missed 4 settings from the config block vars :p
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06:06:40triplah_daurnimator: how's it crap?
06:07:00daurnimatorforget now
06:07:08daurnimatorbut was low on list of media players
06:07:21daurnimatori tried all the linux ones
06:07:26triplah_i dont get that, it's pretty nifty
06:07:28daurnimatorall were pretty unpolished
06:07:34triplah_i converted from banshee/rhythmbox
06:07:48daurnimatormaybe it was lack of codec support?
06:07:56daurnimatoror not supporting album artist tag?
06:08:16triplah_quodlibet uses tags heavily, and supports any codec i've come accross, including aac
06:08:32daurnimatoroh well
06:08:33triplah_its tagging util is awesome too
06:08:40daurnimatori've moved to windows and foobar now
06:08:45triplah_its reinspired me to tag my whole lib properly
06:08:57triplah_ah yeah, foobar would be what i'd use on windows
06:10:18daurnimatori'm not totally satisfised
06:10:28daurnimatori've thought about coding my own numerous times
06:10:33daurnimatorbut... so much effort
06:10:40triplah_yeah totally
06:10:52triplah_i like the plugin system with QL too
06:10:54daurnimatorthinking of taking an easy way out with streams, but, still alot of effort
06:10:55triplah_so easy to extend
06:11:43daurnimatorfoobar is crap without columns ui
06:11:48daurnimatoralot of people get turned off
06:12:11triplah_ahh yeah fully
06:12:34triplah_was wondering what bothered me from the screenies
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06:12:41triplah_the multiple playlists thing is cool though
06:12:58daurnimatoreach search you do makes a new playlist with the search results
06:13:14triplah_i looked at the foobar website - something didnt seem right about the gui... nw i know what it was, no columns
06:14:16triplah_that search is cool
06:14:18LloreanI actually rather like just the vanilla foobar.
06:14:24triplah_otherone require you to select the results and ake a list
06:14:28triplah_other ones*
06:14:30LloreanBut then, as I said, my needs are simple.
06:14:39LloreanEither way, this is straying somewhat from the purpose of the channel.
06:17:16daurnimatori've been in here for 6 months
06:17:24daurnimatorand have only used rockbox for about an hour
06:24:59RoanDoes anyone know the origin of the Chicago font included with Rockbox. Everywhere I check points to it being created by Apple for there early OS's. How is it included with the fonts package?
06:26:04 Join tamacracker [0] (
06:26:25tamacrackerUh... I think my RockBox on my Toshiba has a bug >.>
06:27:19tamacrackerCan anyone help me out?
06:27:44Lloreantamacracker: Not unless you tell us what problem you're having
06:27:58tamacrackerBasically I have an album that's in MP3 format
06:28:14tamacrackerand I try to copy the folder into my music folder of my mp3 player
06:28:22tamacrackerfirst it tells me it's not allowed.
06:28:43tamacrackerSo I tried to be slick, create a new folder name it the artist's name.. then drag the mp3s into it.
06:29:15tamacrackerAfter I do this, the folder becomes discolored (this is on linux), I take the USB cord off of it, and the album is in my mp3 player
06:29:31tamacrackerbut... it wont play them, it skips the album and goes straight to the next album on the list.
06:30:13 Quit Mouser_X3 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:30:19Lloreantamacracker: Did you properly eject your player?
06:30:24tamacrackerI plug the usb cord back onto it, and it's still dim. Then I check the properties, and it claims taht those specific mp3s are 0 bytes
06:30:37Roantamacracker: it sounds like a permissions problem.
06:30:50tamacrackeri tried another album
06:30:54tamacrackerand that had no problem what so ever.
06:31:18tamacrackerthe album that im havin a problem with, plays perfectly on Amarok and I also burned them onto a CD.. so it's not the MP3s.
06:31:56tamacrackercheck this out, I delete the album (folder)
06:31:59tamacrackerand recreate another one
06:32:03tamacrackerand for some reason
06:32:05tamacrackerit's still dim.
06:32:20tamacrackeras if it knows the album im tryin to install onto it before i even do it <,<
06:32:58 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
06:33:05tamacrackerill take a screen shot
06:33:07tamacrackerto show you
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06:33:33RoanHave you tried making a copy of the directory and then moving the copied directory to your Toshiba
06:33:55tamacrackeri tried highlighting all mp3s
06:34:01tamacrackerand copy them onto the folder
06:34:12tamacrackerand i tried copying the whole folder with the mp3s in it
06:34:15tamacrackeronto the toshiba
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06:34:24tamacrackerand it still doesn't like that specific album
06:35:04RoanYou've tried unmounting the player and remounting it?
06:35:07JdGordon_woot! im done
06:35:22tamacrackerthis is the error i get when tryin to copy: Could not make folder /media/GIGABEAT/My Music/Hip Hop/Saigon/The Best Of Saigon Vol. 2: On The Go Back.
06:36:03LloreanAve you tried using a shorter folder name?
06:36:22tamacrackeryep right now i renamed it to On The Go Back
06:36:46tamacrackernow it did it without a problem
06:36:51tamacrackerim gonna see if they'll play now.
06:37:08tamacrackerwhat i assume is... it either doesn't like long folder names or colon
06:37:12tamacracker: <- that
06:37:35LloreanWell, I don't believe :s are allowed in filenames on Fat32...
06:37:43*Llorean didn't see the colon in there.
06:37:57tamacrackerah i see
06:38:08tamacrackeryeah so it might just be the ":"
06:38:09 Quit Tman (Connection timed out)
06:38:19LloreanWell, the : is very definitely A problem.
06:38:22LloreanPossibly the only one.
06:40:08tamacrackeryes Llorean
06:40:12tamacrackerthat's exactly what it was
06:40:17tamacrackerit's the ":"
06:40:24tamacrackerit cannot be used in the file name
06:40:26midkayyay, we should get new brickmania bitmaps tonight.. finally.. :)
06:40:52Lloreanmidkay: Mine including a titlescreen that doesn't go all wonky on the gigabeat while you're at it?
06:40:55tamacrackerLlorean lol thanks for your time :P
06:41:17Lloreanmidkay: I think it uses a much too small image, but tries to fill the whole screen. You get a lot of semi-randomly colored data
06:41:31midkayLlorean: gotcha.. i'll have a look at that.
06:41:41midkayworking on 5G support now, it should work, just need to test.. compiling.
06:42:03LloreanI mean, I imagine it's a relatively simple fix, either set proper bounds, or make a 240x320 image with a black fill for the rest of it. :)
06:42:14midkaythat'll be easy enough :)
06:42:29midkayohhh yeaah... 5G fullscreen baby.. :D
06:42:54midkaybetter play it a bit though. i recall it looked fine and worked fine on level 1 last time i tried this, but level 2 didn't work or something..
06:43:00midkaytoo bad i suck at this game :)
06:43:15LloreanThe game's kinda easy on the Gigabeat.
06:43:18LloreanBecause the screen is so tall.
06:43:46midkayyeah, makes sense.. it's a bit harder with large bitmaps on the 5G actually.
06:44:46midkayit's happening agaiiin...
06:45:30midkayi think it must be a bug in the collision detection or something. level 2 draws fine, but the bottom row or so of bitmaps aren't affected by the ball.
06:45:46midkaymaybe because they're considerably larger and thus stick down farther than the 220x176 ones.
06:47:16midkaygood lord, talk about confusing code.
06:49:44midkayaha, i think i found the culprit..
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06:53:31 Part elcasey
06:54:42 Part Llorean
06:55:30midkayi neeeed you./
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06:56:04perldiverwhat are the upcoming menu changes?
06:56:16*scorche hands midkay some of the red stuff
06:56:31tamacrackerHey Llorean?
06:56:41midkayscorche: ?! :E
06:56:54scorchered stuff = paprika
06:56:55tamacrackerdoes my Toshiba now play .avi movie file?
06:57:09tamacrackerwill it ever? or no?
06:57:18tamacrackerlol don't mind me :P
06:57:31scorcheit isnt like we havent implemented it for spite
06:57:38tamacrackerno i understand
06:58:13midkayargh, maybe i did fix it.. i changed the code, did NOT recompile, recopied the same rock to my ipod, spent ten minutes beating the first level to find it didn't work, then discovered i didn't recompile.
06:58:18tamacrackeri wanna be able to watch afro samurai on my mp3 player and brag about it to my friend lol
06:58:34tamacrackerlol midkay
06:58:45midkaythis is such crap.. :)
06:58:54midkay*plays the first level again unhappily*
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07:00:31tamacrackerscorche, do you know if it'll ever be able to play .avi files?
07:00:37safetydancripes, that settings block needs some whitespace
07:00:46scorcheit is possible..
07:00:47tamacrackerim tryin to find the page where it tells us what files it can play :x
07:00:56tamacrackerthat would be nice scorche :P
07:01:07 Quit Strath (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:02:04midkaysigh, my fix half-works.
07:03:10 Part Roan
07:06:14midkayaha, i think i nailed it.. *retests*
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07:14:15JdGordon_perldiver: its a secret :D
07:14:21 Nick JdGordon_ is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
07:14:23perldiverha ok
07:14:52midkayJdGordon: spill the beans, i wanna know!
07:15:08tamacrackeroh wow
07:15:17tamacrackerthe most updated rockbox is waaaaay to buggy
07:15:50perldiversomehow i doubt its rockbox
07:16:03tamacrackernaw i just now replaced my existing files
07:16:07tamacrackerfrom my old rock box
07:16:10tamacrackerand this new one is horrible.
07:16:32tamacrackerthe splash screen is screwy and the songs are skipping
07:16:46perldiverwell that one is easy
07:16:51perldiveryou need a new bootloader
07:17:23tamacrackeri went here
07:17:30tamacrackerand downloaded the latest.
07:17:49perldiverthe very bottom
07:17:51tamacrackeri copied the files that are in the zip into my Gigabeat folder, and over written my old rock box files
07:18:22 Join max_gamming [0] (
07:19:21tamacrackerdo i need to copy all 3?
07:19:24max_gamminghey, can any one help me out in installing Rockbox? I followed the instructions on the manual file, but i dont think im doing something right because it doesnt load.
07:19:24tamacrackeror just the .DAT file?
07:19:39perldiverthis one
07:20:25perldiverthe .raw file goes to root
07:20:35tamacrackerhow bout the .dat file?
07:21:17perldiver. /gbsystem/fwimg
07:22:05tamacrackerthen hit battery off switch
07:22:10tamacrackerafter shuttin it off
07:22:14tamacrackerthen turn the switch back on
07:22:21tamacrackerand turn the mp3 player back on, yes?
07:22:25DBUGEnqueued KICK perldiver
07:22:57max_gammingohhh so thats what i was doing wrong.. i dint switch the actual switch
07:24:23max_gamminghow do you do a dual boot.. so i can also run the original firmware if i wanted too.. could u help me out with that?
07:25:01tamacrackeri like the new splash screen
07:25:04tamacrackerand now it loads faster
07:25:49tamacrackerbeautiful job guys
07:26:14tamacrackerill make sure to donate to you guys
07:26:20tamacrackerhopefully it helps you guys out
07:26:25perldivermax_gamming theres no dual boot option as of now
07:27:02perldiverwhy on earth do you need it
07:27:08perldiveron gigabeat
07:27:14max_gammingcuz it looks kool?
07:27:24perldiverwhat does?
07:27:44max_gammingthe icons
07:27:51max_gamminginstead of just text
07:28:29 Join Mouser_X3 [0] (
07:29:32perldivertry this:
07:31:02max_gammingawesome! nvm then
07:33:44tamacrackerthis may sound like a really dumb question
07:33:45 Join Ribs [0] (n=ribs@
07:34:00tamacrackerbut where's the option where the song fades out, and the next song fades in?
07:34:17tamacrackeri thought it was in the sound settings
07:34:41tamacrackeris it cross feed?
07:35:36midkaycrossfade, general settings -> playback
07:36:03 Join My_Sic [0] (
07:37:21 Quit thegeek_ (Connection timed out)
07:37:31tamacrackerthanks midkay
07:37:37 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
07:37:38midkayno prob
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07:38:18tamacrackerlet me tell you, it's runnin a lot faster now
07:38:31perldivertamacracker reading the manual really helps as well :P
07:38:35tamacrackerit's not hesitating when i go throw tracks or menus
07:38:43tamacrackerand it starts up faster ;P
07:38:55tamacrackeryeah lol i am right now perldiver :P
07:40:06 Quit Alonea ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
07:40:20tamacrackeri like the crossfeed :P
07:40:25tamacrackervery nice option
07:40:48 Quit max_gamming ()
07:44:08tamacrackermornin amiconn :P
07:44:23amiconnJdGordon: Your conclusion was a bit quick. The fact that no player owner complained doesn't mean that there are no more player users. It's just that rockbox on the archoses is very stable, so normal users don't upgrade often
07:44:40amiconnI guess that most of them still run 2.5
07:45:22tamacrackeri just upgraded
07:45:27tamacrackerand im HIGHLY satisfied.
07:46:00amiconnYou're using an archos Player?
07:46:04 Join Wiwie [0] (
07:46:34tamacrackerI'm readin the file formats and I notice that there isn't a video/movie file format in the list. I'm assuming as of now it cannot play back videos?
07:46:44amiconnJdGordon: Oh, and you pushed the v1 over the edge again... I wonder why
07:46:45tamacrackerNo, sorry amiconn, I'm using Toshiba
07:47:13amiconnI was talking about JdGordon's comment earlier
07:47:29amiconn[05:46:19] * JdGordon_ assumes almost noone uses the player anymore...
07:47:29amiconn[05:46:32] <JdGordon_> no one has mentioned the 2 settings not saving that I just found are missing
07:47:42tamacrackeri see
07:47:50amiconn(2 hours ago incase you're in a different tz)
07:48:00tamacrackeryeh florida, usa here
07:48:20tamacrackerperldiver, question for you, as of now the Toshiba F series does not play movies?
07:49:28 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
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07:49:42amiconnAh, looks like it's the lang id
07:50:46amiconnJdGordon: You could have added the lang id to the settings list in preparation for the next steps, but without actually adding them to the struct, i.e. just ignore the macro parameter
07:51:10tamacrackeroh, so it's best just to be patient about the movie playback
07:52:29safetydantamacracker, from what I hear it's usable, especially on the gigabeat
07:52:36 Quit Wiwie ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
07:52:59tamacrackerwould it be able to play a full 2 hour movie, for example?
07:53:08 Join Wiwie [0] (
07:53:13safetydandon't know about that
07:53:24tamacrackermaybe music videos
07:53:28tamacrackeras of now
07:53:29safetydanbut who watches a two hour movie on a dap?
07:53:40tamacrackeri would just because i could haha
07:53:40 Quit Wiwie (Client Quit)
07:53:52amiconnsafetydan: I once did, on the archos recorder... an even longer movie: LoTR part 1
07:54:55safetydanI can only imagine the eyestrain that would cause. Isn't rvf playback a little grainy?
07:55:26amiconnIt is. Depends on the temperature though
07:55:29 Quit My_Sic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
07:57:34JdGordonamiconn: it was over the edge already anyway wasnt it.. just now gcc wont build it...
07:57:34safetydanoh dear, JdGordon's last update ate 600 bytes of my lang cleanup savings
07:57:54JdGordonI know, but the problem was that 3/4 of the settings dont use a macro...
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08:04:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:12:17amiconnHmmmm, I thought they did...
08:12:25webguest37Hi. Are there any plugins that show how to use pcm_init_recording, pcm_record_data? Do these functions work? I'm running on an iAudio X5.
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08:14:55midkayhey all, quick opinion search.. current brickmania pads:
08:15:12midkayproposed new pads (slightly larger, ignore that):
08:15:12midkayany thoughts?
08:15:29 Join JerryLange [0] (
08:16:03Lloreanmidkay: I personally like the old discrete bumpers, but the new glue.
08:16:10 Part LinusN
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08:16:24JerryLangehello everyone
08:16:32midkaycool, just the kind of feedback i wanted, thanks :)
08:16:33amiconnmorning LinusN :)
08:16:49amiconnAgain using the crappy bouncer? (or what that was)
08:16:58JerryLangei have a question about what ipod linux says about rockbox.
08:16:58Lloreanmidkay: If there's one thing I like, it's telling people my opinion on things. Hehe.
08:17:08midkayLlorean: haha, fun it is :)
08:17:41LinusNamiconn: no, i just closed the wrong window
08:17:48JerryLangeipod linux says this on there 5.5 page.
08:17:59JerryLangeiPodPatcher has been updated to make firmware partitions that ca
08:18:01JerryLangen load the Apple OS. You can now install Rockbox using
08:18:19JerryLangei didnt think rockbox ran on the 5.5gen yet?
08:18:37LinusNJerryLange: it runs on the 30GB 5.5G
08:18:46LinusNbut not the 80gb
08:19:11JerryLangeoh yes. sorry forgot. but they dont really say what version it runs on. this should be corrected.
08:19:22LloreanJerryLange: It's their page. Our page makes it perfectly clear.
08:20:01LloreanIf it's a wiki page of theirs that says it though, you could go ahead and clear that up.
08:20:09JerryLangeyes i know. ive been reading alot about the progress (what progress there is) of the 5.5g 80gig.
08:22:42midkayLlorean: how about these?
08:23:05midkaythey're defined bumpers but also cast a quite slight glow onto the paddle..
08:23:08Lloreanmidkay: That I like.
08:23:35midkayi think that would look cool on-target (it's kinda hard to tell on white).. *tests*
08:24:03LloreanOh, this seems something that needs to be called attention to:
08:25:24LloreanWikipedia at least reinforces that it's currently copyrighted.
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08:27:59JerryLangeso would it have to be removed from the fonts pack?
08:27:59midkayLlorean: wow, i think they look great. thanks again for your thoughts. :) i had struggled to come up with a way for them to seem actually illuminated, not just kind of a solid blue.. the subtle glow really seems to do the trick.
08:28:22LloreanJerryLange: Depends on what the actual license is on the font.
08:29:40amiconntomal wasn't right that mpa.codec is the same when building with -Os instead of -O
08:29:53amiconnBut it's not smaller either, in fact it's 72 bytes larger
08:29:55 Join kaaloo [0] (
08:30:20LinusNi wouldn't cry a single second if we removed chicago
08:30:24 Part kaaloo
08:30:38LinusNit's a lousy 7-bit font
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08:32:09JerryLangeneither would i but some users like it
08:32:47LloreanIt's in a lot of themes, but that's hardly a reason to keep it if it shouldn't be included
08:33:29LloreanThere's an awful lot of fonts at rasher's site, we could just stick in a similarly sized one.
08:34:05LinusNJerryLange: xtal and nimbus have the same look
08:34:43JerryLangecould you give a link so i can look oat the fonts? to see how similar they are?
08:35:05 Quit GodEater (Client Quit)
08:35:06LinusNJerryLange: you don't have your player with you?
08:35:21 Join GodEater [0] (i=c2cbc95c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
08:35:25LloreanOddly enough nimbus12 is slightly smaller, and nimbus14 is slightly taller.
08:35:39CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
08:35:39*GodEater kicks the forums to make them go faster
08:35:46LloreanNeither nimbus nor xtal as they stand will work with existing themes.
08:36:01JerryLangeno i dont. sorry
08:37:07LloreanApparently Chicago is a 13, despite what it says.
08:38:06midkayhaha, "a 13".
08:41:05LloreanMy current theme just happened to be using Chicago.
08:41:47GodEaterwhen did the word "like" become punctuation ?
08:42:01LloreanLike, ages ago man.
08:42:34GodEaterthat guy/girl(?)'s posts in the forum are virtually unreadable because of over usage of the word "like"
08:43:40midkaywho now?
08:43:53amiconnWhoah, and libmad compiled with -Os slows mpa.codec down to a crawl!
08:43:55*GodEater wonders if it's worth removing ALL the iPL stuff from the 80GB thread now. It's not particularly useful anymore.
08:44:39amiconnOn my mini G2, no eq: -O: boost ratio <50% -Os: boost ratio 100%
08:44:49GodEateror just archive the thread off somewhere and start a new one with one post detailing where we're at
08:44:57Lloreanamiconn: Ouch
08:44:59GodEater-Os is size ?
08:45:01midkayi want to see the like-whoring!
08:45:15GodEatermidkay: hbbrad
08:45:19GodEaterhe/she/it has posts all over the place
08:45:41GodEatermaybe valley girl is the new l33t
08:45:47amiconnGodEater: -Os is (or should) be -O2 tweaked to size, i.e. leaving out all opts which increase size
08:45:56midkaythanks.. *views*
08:46:14GodEaterI should know really - being a gentoo user :)
08:46:26amiconngcc is weird...
08:46:37 Join Redbreva [0] (
08:47:09midkayhm, i see the "kiss" emoticon was used... it better not be a guy.. :)
08:47:20LinusN"well im confused i am like a lil on the slow side and i honestly just need like people to talk to me as a child."
08:48:11 Join Jsunu [0] (
08:48:13GodEaterdoes that mean we can smack him/her and put them to bed early with no supper ?
08:48:15LinusNno punctuation whatsoever
08:48:16midkayit's alright LinusN.
08:48:19 Quit midgey ()
08:48:22XavierGrwhere is that thread any links? :P
08:48:34LinusNthis is a gem:
08:48:35midkayi still love you even if you are a little on the slow side...
08:48:44midkayhaha, a gem.
08:49:06XavierGrlet me read it though hehe
08:49:43GodEateroh no - is gone :(
08:49:50XavierGrmy damn internet connection is slower than a turtle
08:50:04*GodEater hands XavierGr a Hare
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08:51:04midkayXavierGr: is it not loading for oyu either?
08:51:13 Join bluebrother [0] (i=KOQtJz0n@rockbox/staff/bluebrother)
08:51:18GodEaterthe forums are always a little slow this time of the morning I find
08:51:22XavierGrI thought it was me but maybe forums are playing tricks on me
08:51:28midkayit worked for me a moment ago, now it isn't working at all.
08:51:58XavierGrtoo much traffic for the new GoldenQuote wannabe I guess!
08:52:10JerryLangemidkay: same here but it finialy loaded for me.
08:52:19midkayit just came back up or something i guess.
08:52:34JerryLangei like lachlan's post on that topic.
08:52:36midkayHAHA, "i hope this is a joke".
08:52:52midkaythat's hilarious.
08:52:55LloreanSadly, judging from the rest of that user's posts, it really isn't likely.
08:52:56XavierGrROFLMAO this is hilarious
08:53:16midkayaaaahh that's funny.. haha.
08:53:25*XavierGr goes to read these 8 posts
08:53:41midkaylet's encourage him or her so we can get a little bit more GoldenQuotes material!
08:53:51XavierGr8 posts in one day, just great
08:53:56LloreanNow hey, the person may be limited, but play nice.
08:53:59midkayi seriously wouldn't mind responding to these if it meant getting more of them... at least for a little while.
08:54:09midkayjoking, sorry :)
08:54:17GodEater"limited" - hahahahaha - what a great term for them
08:54:25XavierGrheh it certainly made my morning :)
08:54:46GodEaterthe next meeting I go to I'm going to claim I'm a "bit limited"
08:55:01midkaylachlan's reply > *
08:55:05midkaygive him an Expert badge!
08:57:00 Join Juice^ [0] (n=juice@
08:57:15JerryLangei found the chicago font but didnt really find a license. i just found this.
08:57:17JerryLangeThese fonts are shareware, freeware, or otherwise available for downloading from the Internet and many Online services. All rights are retained by their respective creators. Privacy Policy
08:57:43LloreanThat's a bit of a cop-out.
08:57:52Llorean"We found it on the net, so we assume we can provide i on the net"
08:58:15JerryLangeyeah thats what i figured, but i tried
08:58:17midkay'shareware or freeware or something else'.
08:58:49Juice^dan_a: any progress on the lcd driver for e200?
08:58:53GodEatermaybe we need a forum for "special" or "gifted" people
08:58:58LinusNi want to toss out chicago anyway, since it's only usascii
08:59:09LloreanDrop Chicago then.
08:59:19Llorean"License issues and all around dumbness of the character set"
09:00:55JerryLangeok then drop chicago then i guess. i dont use it so it dont really bother me.
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09:01:09 Quit Nibbier ("bei uns hat noch niemals nicht koana koan durscht ned ghabt")
09:02:48JerryLangei found a similar font to chicago. anybody want to take a look?
09:04:19XavierGrLlorean: Is it possible to add on the "Iriver - Installation/Removal/Flashing" the H10 tag too?
09:04:49scorchewhy is that needed?
09:04:57LloreanXavierGr: Done
09:05:05scorcheot am i missing something?
09:05:11Lloreanscorche: There's a subtitle of the "targets" for each manufacturer board.
09:05:14XavierGrLlorean: nice :)
09:05:18scorcheyeah...i got it
09:05:22LloreanI'd forgotten to update to include H10. :)
09:05:53JerryLangeLlorean: i found a font similar to the chicago font. you want to take a look at it?
09:06:38LloreanJerryLange: Honestly, I'm not terribly invested in this.
09:07:39JerryLangeok. ill save it for somebody who maybe is.
09:12:12XavierGrAs long there is nimbus I won't feel sorry for Chicago
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09:36:59markunJerryLange: you can show it to pixelma when she gets back
09:38:08 Join Juice^ [0] (n=juice@
09:38:43Bagderthe forums are crazy again
09:38:47JerryLangemarkun: ill just post it in that topic becasue i might not be here when he returns.
09:39:00JerryLangeyeah i noticed
09:39:50GodEaterdatabase has fallen over it seems
09:39:57JerryLangeonce the page actually loads first.
09:40:04markunJerryLange: can you post a link here? I will tell her it's in the logs.
09:41:20JerryLangemarkun: yes its here
09:41:27JerryLangealternative chicago font:
09:43:20markunJerryLange: what are the differences?
09:43:45 Join dune2 [0] (
09:44:55JerryLangealternative chicago font:
09:45:24JerryLangewell this version is free. if the chicago font is licenses.
09:49:13 Join JerryLange_ [0] (
09:49:25markunJerryLange: there should be a double-sized 'hi-res' version of the bitmap chicago font as well somewhere
09:49:55JerryLange_hold on
09:51:11JerryLange_is there any chance somebody can kick JerryLange that is my name but i got disconnected.
09:51:31markunare you registered?
09:51:46markunthen you can use nickserv to kick it
09:53:11JerryLange_yes im registered, but it says i have to be an operator in this room for it to work
09:53:36markunJerryLange: do "/query nickserv" and then type "help" in that window
09:54:03markun(ghost is the option you are looking for)
09:54:45SlasheriJerryLange_: just wait a couple of minutes and it will disconnect
09:55:12Bagdera couple being around 20 iirc
09:55:25Slasherihmm, that's huge
09:55:36Slasherion ircnet, its something like 3 minutes at max
09:55:44Bagderyes, freenode is different
09:56:09JerryLange_i cant find the chost command
09:56:20Mode"#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
09:56:26Kick(#rockbox JerryLange :scorche) by scorche!n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche
09:56:37scorche(been a rough day...needed to get agressions out)
09:56:42JerryLange_thank you
09:56:49Mode"#rockbox -o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
09:56:54scorchebut do look up the ghost command
09:56:57Bagderthe kick doesn't help much though since the nick is still connected
09:57:16Bagderor perhaps "occupied" is a better word
09:57:16markunJerryLange_: you don't see "GHOST Kill a ghosted nickname" ?
09:57:53scorcheBagder: it wasnt to was to get aggressions out ;)
09:58:10 Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
09:58:18BagderI know, I was mostly informing JerryLange_
09:58:48BagderI have no friends so I just talk out to nobody in particular
09:59:07*scorche cues the audio
09:59:14scorcheyou got a friend in me!
09:59:25midkayBagder: how do you remove a file from the repository? :)
09:59:27JerryLange_haha nice one.
09:59:35Bagdermidgey: svn rm [file]
09:59:39Bagderand commit
09:59:56midkayi'm the absolute master of not getting commits right...
10:00:32*Bagder kneels in front of the master
10:00:37JerryLange_hmmm. i still cant login nickserv ill just leave my name as this till next time.
10:01:01scorchemidkay: yeah, but you could do with some practice to beat the high score
10:01:07markunJerryLange_: is JerryLange_ also registered or just JerryLange ?
10:01:23scorcheJerryLange_: /ghost JerryLange password
10:01:26midkayhaha, who holds that? isn't it Mikachu?
10:01:26JerryLange_im pretty sure JerryLange is only registered
10:01:29midkayor preglow...
10:01:46midgeywasnt it kkurbjun?
10:01:46scorchemidkay: i forgot who, but it was some obscene number
10:01:50 Join GodEater [0] (i=c2cbc95c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
10:01:52scorchethat it was
10:01:53markunJerryLange_: maybe that's the problem then. Check the freenode FAQ.
10:02:08JerryLange_says ghost unknown command
10:02:12midgeyrockdoom dehacked commit i believe
10:02:26bluebrothereeeh ... /msg nickserv ghost, not /ghost
10:02:31LloreanJerryLange_: It's "/msg nickserv ghost nickname password"
10:02:32scorcheJerryLange_: /msg nickserv ghost nick pass
10:02:39midkayreally? i know that, erm, preglow got a bit one before that..
10:03:03scorchesome clients have that built in as a macro
10:03:05*scorche shrugs
10:03:17 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
10:03:18bluebrotherhmm. Are the wiki diffs broken?
10:03:24 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
10:03:26Bagderhm, jdgordon broke several builds
10:03:34bluebrotherI get a blank page only. Reloading doesn't help :(
10:03:40Bagderbluebrother: yes it seems so
10:03:44midgeymidkay: i think kkurbjun had like 40000
10:03:45 Nick JerryLange_ is now known as JerryLange (
10:03:48Bagderwe blame Zagor, but we're not sure
10:03:51midkayBagder: btw, clicking the link for a removed file on the front page gives an error.. (try brickmania_ball.320x240....)
10:03:59midkaymidgey: eek.
10:04:00Bagderme check...
10:04:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:04:31bluebrotherwhat's the number telling?
10:04:33 Quit Juice^ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
10:04:37bluebrothercompiler errors?
10:04:38JerryLangeyay it works
10:04:45scorcheerrors and warnings
10:04:52Bagderbluebrother: compiler errors + linker errors * N something
10:05:09*Bagder can't recall the deails
10:05:17bluebrotherand something is a secret value depending on the dev? ;-)
10:05:19scorchei thought it was 1 for warnings, 10 for errors although some errors are different
10:05:30Bagderbluebrother: now that's an idea! ;-)
10:05:40Bagderscorche: ah, no you're right that's it
10:05:58*bluebrother goes filling out for getting a negative number
10:06:11bluebrother*filling out a form even.
10:06:11JerryLangethank you Llorean and Scorche
10:06:31midgeymidkay: score was 42856 from kkurbjun on dec 13
10:06:40midkayBagder: hm, i think it'd be nice in place of the [diff] link to have like [created] or [new] when it's the first revision of a file, and [removed] or somesuch for rm'd files.
10:06:46*midgey still thinks we should have a high score list
10:06:50midkaymidgey: where did you find that?
10:07:13midgeyxaviergr mentions it in the logs
10:08:18midkayhaha.. while searching for preglow's i found this:
10:08:20midkay02.50.22 # <sharpe> yes, score one for sharpe. sharpe : one, midkay : twenty.
10:08:24*midkay is victorious!
10:08:57*bluebrother just installes KatMouse
10:09:12bluebrotherahh, finally the mouse wheel is working like I'm used to.
10:09:23scorchemidkay: that isnt too surprising though...
10:10:01midkayscorche: well of course not. i'm just impressed he could admit it.
10:10:15linuxstbAre the History links on the wiki broken for anyone else? I just get a blank page.
10:10:17midkayalthough he definitely exaggerated my score a bit, it was surely more like 50-60.
10:10:38scorchewell, we both claimed the final score for him
10:10:45 Join Bger [0] (n=Bager@
10:11:14Lloreanlinuxstb: Broken for me as well
10:12:37midkaysomeone added me to the KnowledgeMap... i'm flattered.
10:12:50scorchesomeone is actually editing it?
10:13:00scorcheyay...i thought it was a failed attempt
10:13:05midkayit was, loser. :D
10:13:12midkayit's suprisingly filled out actually..
10:13:13 Join Juice^ [0] (n=juice@
10:13:18markunanyone in the mood for figuring out the encryption of a firmare update file?
10:13:39scorcheoh wow
10:13:47*scorche becomes happy
10:13:48midkayone guy added like everybody on there though.
10:13:51Bagdermarkun: what's the target?
10:13:58midkayrevision 4 -> 5 went from nada to filled in..
10:14:04markunBagder: Kenwood HD20GA7/HD30GA9
10:14:17scorchethen it might be in order to double check that you are not listed as something that you are not
10:14:37markunIt is based on the same hardware as the Gigabeats, but has a 'digital amp' with mythical sound qualities
10:14:38midkayme? surely i did...
10:14:55midkayBagder: you used my idea! <3
10:15:13Bagdermarkun: got a URL for the firmware?
10:15:32 Quit zefie (Nick collision from services.)
10:15:44 Join zefie [0] (
10:15:58 Quit upsioned (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:16:01midkayalright, time for bed for me now.. night all.
10:16:22 Join subson [0] (n=ju@
10:16:23Bagdermarkun: and that is everything there is? no other files or similar?
10:16:58markunBagder: I can give you the windows installer we extracted it from..
10:17:06 Quit midgey ()
10:17:33markunBagder: Let me see if I can find older versions of the firmware update
10:17:59Bagderyes, having more than one file will help
10:19:06Bagderthere are odd 0x10-based patterns in it
10:19:30Bagderthe same byte code every 0x10
10:20:28DataGhostI closed all my opendirs now.. hopefully that will stop iPL people from posting in the 5.5G 80GB rockbox dev thread
10:21:30DataGhostamazing what people can do with unsupported/broken code, no clue at all and a lot of 'want'
10:21:55DataGhostoh god
10:22:04DataGhostLlorean you may want to have a look at the latest post :')
10:22:22Bagderpeople manage to screw up even without broken builds ;-)
10:22:35Bagderseeing the amount of people bricking their sansas
10:22:41LloreanDataGhost: What most recent post?
10:22:43*Llorean looks innocent.
10:22:54Bagder"I copied random junk to it in recovery mode and now it doesn't start"
10:22:58DataGhostwell, some guy was actually complaining about linux not working without an ext3 partition and without any support for fat32/hfs+ :)
10:23:12DataGhosthehe Llorean
10:23:33LloreanBagder: Every time I see yet ANOTHER person has done that, I'm astonished.
10:23:40LloreanHow do you "accidentally" put an extra file on it?
10:24:03Bagderor a totally different file
10:24:21Mikachumaybe they fell
10:25:10markunBagder: did you see the PM?
10:25:12DataGhost'i fell on my keyboard and the next thing I know I saw dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sda and it looked very busy... I thought it'd be better to not disturb it but now my iPod won't boot!!1'
10:25:15LloreanBagder: Like the one who tried an e200 bootloader on his c200? If I remember what he said correctly?
10:25:35BagderLlorean: nah, that's zefie and he has clues
10:25:50LloreanIt seemed a somewhat random thing to try though
10:25:54dan_aAnd he recovered it
10:25:58Bagderhe even managed to restore his c200 with the e200tool
10:26:05LloreanYeah, that was impressive
10:26:11Bagderthat somehow takes him to the second level in this game
10:27:23 Part JerryLange
10:28:29 Join tucoz [0] (i=528612c1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
10:28:43tucozbluebrother: did you read my message in the logs?
10:29:47tucozotherwise: 23.14
10:29:49 Quit subson ()
10:31:21tucozBagder: is it possible to change the sort order for the irc-logs to be in descending order? Similar to the mailing lists.
10:31:59tucoz(of course it it possible, but is it a good idea?)
10:32:16DataGhostI guess it would be more logical indeed :)
10:32:33GodEateryes - I've been wishing for that too
10:32:53 Quit Mouser_X3 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:33:36Bagdertucoz: it is a good idea
10:33:48DataGhost"it's just not possible"
10:33:49*DataGhost runs
10:35:07GodEater"it's a good idea, but unfortunately son is still asleep and without him I'm worried to change the html incase I break something" ;)
10:35:24Mikachuupside down irc logs sounds confusing, and wouldn't you need to rewrite the whole file every time it updates?
10:35:42GodEaternot the logfiles themselves Mikachu
10:35:49GodEaterthe page which presents the list of logs
10:35:51Mikachuoh the index, okay
10:36:59BagderI'll ask my son to fix it later ;-P
10:37:31webguest37Hi. Are there any plugins that show how to use pcm_init_recording, pcm_record_data? Do these functions work? I'm running on an iAudio X5.
10:37:46tucozis his middle name 'perl-wizard' by any chance?
10:38:07dan_aBagder: You do realise that when he gets to 13 years old and wants to rebel, he'll do it by coding in C#++...
10:38:19tucozor python
10:38:42DataGhostor befreak, for readability :P
10:38:46Bagdera teenage windows-using rebel
10:39:06dan_aOr maybe he'll just add malloc to the core of Rockbox
10:39:11Bagderthen we need to have that talk, the dad-son talk
10:39:37 Part Llorean
10:39:39MikachuBagder: hm, the link for the brickmania_ball.320x240x16.bmp on the frontpage doesn't work
10:39:42bluebrothertucoz: just read it. Will look into it later today
10:39:56BagderMikachu: right, viewvc is quite annoying
10:40:02Bagderthe linked _worked_
10:40:07Bagderuntil the file was deleted
10:40:19Mikachuah, i didn't see the next commit there
10:40:28Mikachumaybe you want all the links to set revision too
10:41:02bluebrotherwhy not coding D?
10:41:04BagderI just need to figure out exactly how it wants it
10:41:17*bluebrother read an article about D yesterday. Sounds interesting.
10:41:21 Join AndreSmith [0] (
10:41:27 Quit combrains (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:41:28BagderMikachu: thanks
10:41:45 Part AndreSmith
10:41:52scorchebluebrother: i expect a complete translation of rockbox into D by the weekend
10:42:32Mikachui think you should port it to shakespeare
10:43:36*GodEater votes for Haskell
10:43:39Mikachu( )
10:46:55tucozsorry for the cursing, but isn't there a language known as brainfuck?
10:47:21bluebrotherit is.
10:47:30*bluebrother just discovered DotLisp
10:48:02kclafcould anyone help me with the bootloader please ?
10:48:11scorchethere is also one named Argh!
10:48:14Bagderpathrev fixed on the frontpage now
10:48:27Bagderthe [gone] now links to the rev before the removal
10:49:00dan_akclaf: Tell us which player, and describe the problem, and someone will do their best to help
10:49:07kclafi used to modify the source, in order to change the bootloader behavior (ie pressing a key = starts RB, pressing nothing = starts genuine firmware)
10:49:16kclafbut the bootloader code changed
10:49:22kclafis that correct ?
10:49:38tucozbluebrother: fun page :)
10:49:40DataGhostMikachu I like that more :)
10:49:48kclafive inverted the instructions into the "if" and the "else"
10:51:03 Part tucoz ("woooork")
10:51:44 Join lachlan11121 [0] (i=cbce3551@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
10:51:59 Quit lachlan11121 (Client Quit)
10:52:22 Join pondlife [0] (
10:52:53dan_akclaf: I don't recognise any of that as being code to the bootloaders, but yes - swapping what is inside the if and the else sections will work
10:53:10MikachuDataGhost: is similar
10:54:12kclafhmmm dan_a, that's source code from "rockbox-20070109\flash\bootloader\bootloader.c"
10:54:27linuxstbkclaf: Which bootloader are you trying to modify/
10:54:49linuxstbThen change bootloader/ipod.c
10:54:50 Join lachlan1212 [0] (i=cbce3551@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
10:55:07linuxstbIt may not be in the source tarball - in which case get it via SVN.
10:55:40kclafoh yea, that's why I didnt get the file
10:55:49kclafi'll checkout the SVN for it
10:55:56kclafthanks for your help linuxstb
10:56:16linuxstbkclaf: But you know the hold switch now starts the original firmware?
10:56:34kclafyes I know but I have some stupid car audio player
10:56:57kclafthat works with AIR
10:57:13linuxstbBut once you start the Apple firmware once, does it ever reboot?
10:57:13kclafand i dont want to have to press HOLD all the time
10:57:25linuxstbI thought the Apple firmware just slept itself.
10:57:47kclafyes, but if I let my ipod for more than 17hours it shuts down
10:58:09kclafso it would start into rockbox when it boots
10:58:14linuxstbAnd then it reboots? I thought it just hibernated...
10:58:35kclafI dont think so, because I can see the black screen with the apple
10:58:40Bgerguys, hi!
10:58:53linuxstbkclaf: But I thought that was a different black screen with the apple...
10:59:05Bgersorry for the offtopic but does anybody know any linux console icq client other than centericq ?
10:59:27*linuxstb afk
10:59:39MikachuBger: any console irc client + bitlbee does the trick
10:59:47kclafhmmm, well, you know what, ill reflash my ipod with non-patched rockbox
10:59:57kclafand see how it behaves
11:00:01Bgerbitlbee ?
11:00:23kclafthat's an irc-im gateway
11:00:48kclafit allow to chat into MSN, OSCAR, JABBER like you would do on IRC
11:00:57DataGhostand also 0.22 seconds on google :)
11:01:16lachlan1212Supposedly some company has hacked the gaming cabilities of the 5/5.5G iPods and have gotten one of their games to run in the Apple OS
11:01:34lachlan1212With "supposedly" being the key word
11:01:54DataGhostI can play gameboy games on my 5.5G... nothing new there? :) (just not in the apple os :P)
11:02:07 Quit mindframe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:02:11 Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
11:02:17lachlan1212Still, if this is indeed true its pretty big news
11:03:56Bagderit is?
11:04:01lachlan1212And don't you have an 80GB iPod DataGhost? Heh you can't play anything at the moment
11:04:16DataGhostI have an 80GB iPod
11:04:24DataGhostand cyboid looks just like doom
11:04:54lachlan1212Have you got RB running on it though?
11:05:28lachlan1212Cyboid does look similar to Doom, but other games will follow it
11:05:53DataGhostbut errrm... I don't know if you're a regular in here or not
11:06:03DataGhostbut I'd say you work at bobbeetec :P nofi
11:06:21lachlan1212I'm a regular ojn the forum, not really in IRC much
11:06:48pondlifeLinusN: around?
11:06:52DataGhosthm ok
11:07:10lachlan1212and all I'm saying is that now the 3rd party devs can make iPod native games (they couldn't before)
11:07:17DataGhostmaybe I'm just a little paranoid about some people :)
11:07:32bluebrotherBger: you could also try micq
11:07:41Bgerbluebrother ah, yes
11:07:58Bgeri'm having fscking problems with my X eating up the CPU ...
11:08:02pondlifeLinusN: seems to be wrong, as Matthias has noted.
11:08:06DataGhostwell lachlan1212 at least the site doesn't look 100% legit to me.. but again I haven't seen the actual game on mine
11:08:17DataGhostthe part that put me off a bit was the 'Real, honest user reviews'
11:08:21DataGhostwith the emphasis on real and honest
11:08:28lachlan1212Yeah the side does look a tad.. shady
11:08:37 Quit hcs ("Leaving")
11:08:54lachlan1212Theres a thread on the IPL forums for beta testing this game
11:09:06DataGhostI usually see the same sort of links in penis enlargement spammails :)
11:09:22lachlan1212Not that it makes it any more legit
11:09:35lachlan1212You open those emails;)?
11:09:49pondlifeAlso, is it known that the wiki search is down?
11:10:50DataGhostsometimes when my pc is being slow lachlan1212
11:10:56 Quit pondlife ("disconnected has pondlife")
11:10:59DataGhostI hit the [Spam] button but it takes a bit :P
11:11:45DataGhostby the way, the 'screenshots' look really odd
11:11:56DataGhostthey are higher than wide
11:12:06DataGhostand the 5(.5)G screen is wider than high
11:12:07lachlan1212yeah, thats what I was about to say
11:12:10Mikachuthey're from cell phones
11:12:20lachlan1212they look like they've been distorted
11:12:32DataGhosthm, heh
11:12:40lachlan1212in the IPL thread, the dev mentioned that the screens are all from cellphone targets
11:12:46lachlan1212which would explain it
11:12:50Mikachulooks like java3d
11:13:15 Join GodEater [0] (i=c2cbc95c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
11:13:37lachlan1212It's odd that they obviously have the ability to create halfway decent 3d graphics but cant slap together a decent website layout
11:14:14DataGhostanyway, since I've got a 5.5G I'll just send them an e-mail to 'betatest'
11:14:41DataGhostwith the site being all shady and the game looking a lot like doom I'd almost say it's a video :P
11:14:45lachlan1212shoot me a pm on the forums if they do end up actually senidng you anything
11:15:08lachlan1212i'm 'lachlan' on the forums- if you hadn't already guessed
11:15:16DataGhostalso odd that you can code such a game with 2 people in under a month
11:15:25DataGhostbecause the reviews are apparently from september
11:15:36DataGhostoh wait, the 5G has been around for longer than that, right?
11:15:50lachlan1212but not the game cabability
11:16:03lachlan1212that was only introduced with the 5.5 G's, around september
11:16:14DataGhostso they wrote that game in a month. with 2 people.
11:16:24lachlan1212it seems the game was developed for the Ngage, which has been around for a couple year
11:16:28GodEaterlooks more like quake than doom to me
11:16:36lachlan1212and they are merely porting it to the iPod
11:16:43GodEaterit's very beige
11:16:58 Quit gtkspert (Remote closed the connection)
11:17:46DataGhostanyway, this is one of the things I'm not believing until I see it
11:17:46*DataGhost sends request
11:17:54lachlan1212have you watched the youtube vid yet? does it provide anything conclusive?
11:18:57DataGhostI watched the google vid
11:18:59DataGhostis it different?
11:19:00lachlan1212I'm on a arguably the slowest computer in existance at the moment, so I can't watch them myself
11:19:13lachlan1212i doubt it would be different
11:19:28lachlan1212did the video show the ipod and the person hand controlling the game?
11:19:29Mikachuwell, google video provides the original nonrecompressed .avi file
11:19:47DataGhostapart from that it's perfectly possible to create a video which simulates the apple interface and a working game, I can't conclude anything from that video :)
11:19:55DataGhostexcept for me being very skeptical
11:20:15lachlan1212thats understandable
11:20:15DataGhostand some could say the same about my iDoom-on-80GB-video :)
11:20:34DataGhosthowever they can easily test that now
11:20:49lachlan1212its also questionable as to how they managed to make it run without it being verified by iTunes, which all games must be to play
11:21:00GodEater"easily" assuming they're au fait with ext3-ing their iPod ;)
11:21:36lachlan1212haha, I was wondering how'd I'd missed the '80Gb now functional' post
11:22:26GodEateryeah - that's iDoom - not rockdoom
11:22:51lachlan1212so people are able to boot iPL now?
11:23:24GodEateronly if their iPod is entirely ext3 formatted
11:23:35GodEaterDataGhost fixed the bootloader
11:24:01GodEaterand the kernel reads 1024 byte sector ext3 filesystems
11:24:08lachlan1212Bless his ghostly soul
11:24:13DataGhostwell entirely isn't needed, but it just can't read fat32 and hfs+ yet :P
11:24:18GodEaterfat32 and hfs+ support are still unavailable though
11:24:24DataGhostso this time people with macpods are out of luck >:)
11:24:34lachlan1212was hfs+ ever supported?
11:24:46GodEaterfor iPL ? yes
11:24:57lachlan1212ahh, fair enough
11:24:58DataGhostI have no clue, but for the 5.5G 30GB the instructions previously said 'this will work on the 30GB macpods only'
11:25:15DataGhostand my quick fix on the linux kernel enabled iPL for the 30GB winpods, too
11:25:33GodEaterthink most of the original iPL devs were all OSX ppl - so they made HFS+ support the priority
11:25:39GodEaterwinpod support came later
11:25:49DataGhostbut I'm still not sure if it can do diskreads and the one who wrote the new tutorial doesn't respond to my testing requests
11:26:01DataGhostI'm not so sure about that GodEater
11:26:04lachlan1212Does IPL run as poorly on the 5.5G's as it does on the 5 G's?
11:26:05GodEateris that Tempel ?
11:26:07DataGhostI converted my iPod into a macpod aswell
11:26:13DataGhostthe mac partition table is different
11:26:19DataGhostso it read the partitions properly without modification
11:26:23DataGhostwell, only to the ata code
11:26:39DataGhostthe main reason it didn't work on the winpods was the MBR having the 'wrong' values
11:26:49GodEaterthat would make sense
11:26:56DataGhostyep :)
11:27:11DataGhostlachlan1212 I don't know.. I think so
11:27:22GodEaterdefine "poorly" :)
11:27:23DataGhostLet me look up a few vids... I think you mean podzilla2 by the way
11:27:26DataGhostwith 'poorly'
11:27:38DataGhostsince the mainloop claims 150% cpu or something like that ;)
11:28:48DataGhostI think those pretty much cover it
11:28:53lachlan1212I don't know exactly what I mean by poorly, but I was under the impression from what I read around the IPL wiki/forum that the 5G wasn't really stable
11:29:42lachlan1212those vids will probably play at 3 FPS on my computer but I'll give them a try
11:30:02GodEaterwhat are you running on? A ZX-81 ?
11:30:07DataGhostwell, they're from my camera... 320x240
11:30:10DataGhostiPods should run it :D
11:30:32lachlan1212Honestly, an iPod has more CPu than my computer
11:31:00lachlan1212those things people strap to their belts that count how many steps they take have more grunt than my piece of crap
11:31:51lachlan1212clock radio, watches, calculators- you name it- all are faster
11:32:33lachlan1212i think it has 64MB of RAM
11:32:48DataGhostyes it should have, according to even wikipedia
11:32:53DataGhostbut only 32 is detected on mine
11:32:59DataGhostand when I force mem=64M it refuses to boot
11:33:25lachlan1212this is your iPod, or your computer?
11:33:40DataGhostyou mean the zzzzzzzzzz-sound? or the thing you see on the vid?
11:34:00GodEaterhe means the memory comment
11:34:00 Join hcs [0] (n=hcs@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
11:34:06DataGhostlol :D
11:34:12DataGhostthat's my iPod
11:34:19lachlan1212no no, I was talking about my computer- it has 64MB or RAM- it is a piece of crap
11:34:24DataGhostI have *slightly* more than 64MB ram in my pc
11:34:31Mikachu<- 1024MB
11:34:35*GodEater remembers when 64MB was a lot in a PC
11:34:36DataGhostreally, how can you live with 64MB
11:34:42DataGhostI'm using 916 at this very moment
11:34:49amiconnLinusN: Any news regarding 1K sector support?
11:34:55lachlan1212I havn't downloaded your video yet, its at about 30%
11:35:03*GodEater 's first PC had only 4MB.
11:35:13DataGhostmy first had 640kB :)
11:35:19GodEatershow off
11:35:25DataGhostLaser XT/III
11:35:30DataGhost4,77MHz 8086
11:35:32GodEaterBillG : "640KB should be enough for anyone"
11:35:36LinusNamiconn: unfortunately not, i haven't found time to work on it
11:35:37DataGhostwhich could be clocked to 9,54MHz with a nifty program
11:36:00lachlan1212I'm hoping I can install Xubuntu or something similar on it and it will spring to life again
11:36:20DataGhostI hope you're not using windows vista on that thing now :P
11:36:31lachlan1212I'm still running Win 98 *cries*
11:36:38GodEaterlachlan :
11:36:55DataGhostis it down? :o
11:37:03DataGhostah ok
11:37:05GodEaterbeen deleted as far as I can see
11:37:16GodEatershame - it always made me laugh
11:37:19DataGhostthe author probably tried gentoo and saw that it wasn't as bad :P
11:37:34GodEater−−omg-optimized !!!
11:37:49GodEateroh it was definitely tongue in cheek anyway
11:37:53GodEaterhe didn't really mean gentoo was bad
11:38:08GodEaterhe was just poking fun at the people who thought it was the be all and end all of linux distros
11:38:28GodEatermost of whom had no clue what they were talking about
11:39:14lachlan1212hahahaha that is hilarious
11:39:34GodEaterdespite the fun being poked at it there - it *is* a good system
11:39:41GodEaterjust don't expect miracles :)
11:39:58GodEaterfor low end hardware like yours - I recommend E17 for your desktop lachlan
11:40:07lachlan1212to make matters worse, I havn't been able to defrag this Win 98 trainwreck for over 3 years because it stalls when I try
11:40:09GodEatereven XFCE is a bit heavyweight these days
11:40:17DataGhostit does work great for my epia, by the way
11:40:23GodEaterso Xubuntu might not be as great as you hope
11:40:26DataGhostit's got only 64kB of cache so I can optimize for that
11:40:32lachlan1212so gentoo is optimised for peices of crap?
11:40:43lachlan1212i thought it was a full distro
11:40:48GodEatergentoo itself is as optimised / unoptimised as you build it
11:41:00DataGhostyou can optimize it for anything
11:41:13lachlan1212ahh, I'm not that savvy with computers
11:41:32DataGhostit's just that you really start to notice the advantage of that on uncommon systems with, for example, a very small cache
11:41:49lachlan1212I meant in the way that Xubuntu is potimised for slow computers- it is intended to run with mininal ram/proccesing speed
11:42:08GodEaterI think even Xubuntu will struggle on a 64MB machine....
11:42:17GodEaterbut you can only try :)
11:42:36lachlan1212yeah, I really should set fire to this thing
11:42:46lachlan1212but no money for a new computer:(
11:42:48GodEaterit's certainly an easier install than gentoo if you're scared of techy things htough
11:42:56GodEaterthough gentoo's installer *has* improved
11:43:16GodEateranyway - that's enough OT talk from me
11:43:22DataGhost lachlan1212
11:43:37lachlan1212yeah, if I ever do end up switching to Linux, it will be a *buntu
11:43:39scorchethis machine has 64 MB and it runs slack fine
11:44:02lachlan1212haha i told you- my computer is to slow for youtube
11:44:36 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
11:44:49scorcheactually, i take that back...this machine has 60M
11:44:53GodEaterscorche: with a desktop environment too (i.e. X+whatever) ?
11:45:06lachlan1212i think this is also a rather low quality computer, as i've used 98 on similarly endowed machinesand had it run much faster
11:45:26*GodEater thinks fluxbox is a little too much to expect for a "I just came from windows" user
11:45:43hcsI have a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4 and 768 MB of memory, but windows 98 can't manage it too efficiently
11:46:17amiconnBtw, what was the problem with sdl and framebuffer again?
11:46:35amiconnMaybe we could get away without X altogether for the vmware image
11:47:53scorcheamiconn: that was one of the things changed from the first version to the second
11:50:26lachlan1212DataGhost: I just watched your video, very nice
11:50:42lachlan1212the one of you playing Doom that is
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11:51:30scorcheas in no X > X
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11:55:35amiconnscorche: Doesn't fluxbox use X?
11:56:31scorcheamiconn: of course
11:58:17amiconnSo the vmware image does have X
11:58:25scorche<scorche> as in no X > X
11:58:59amiconnHmm, maybe this was unclear
11:59:05amiconnI would want to get rid of X
11:59:09scorchewhat i was meaning was that it was changed *from* that
11:59:17scorcheyes, but why?
11:59:18amiconn...for size considerations
11:59:53MikachuX is only a couple of MBs
11:59:56amiconnAlso, this fluxbox is worse than pure commandline imho, and a real gui system is too big
12:00:15scorchewhat is so wrong with fluxbox?
12:00:20amiconnI do run a linux VM myself, but it's 2GB +
12:02:13scorcheamiconn: why do you think fluxbox is worse that pure commandline?
12:02:59lachlan1212has anyone heard of the new AOL player coming out this year?
12:03:25lachlan1212 it runs LINUX, has wi-fi and bluetooth
12:04:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:04:37GodEateramiconn: although I'm not a fan of fluxbox myself - I think losing X entirely is a mistake. People who use the vmware dev environment need somewhere to run their simulator builds.
12:04:41lachlan1212and i daresay, if you bashed it against an ipod repeatedly it would come out thwe winner
12:05:22MikachuGodEater: the point would be to run the sim outside X
12:05:54Mikachulachlan1212: you can still sign the linux kernel to lock it down
12:06:26scorcheGodEater, amiconn: would switching to xfce satisfy your dislike of fluxbox?
12:06:35lachlan1212Mikachu: what exatly do you mean?
12:07:14GodEaterlooks like it was built to survive a direct hit from a nuke!
12:07:38 Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC")
12:07:49lachlan1212it is made of strong, strong metal
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12:08:34lachlan1212it was designed by a company that makes kitchen appliances, which explains its resemblance to a fridge
12:08:47amiconnGodEater: That's why I was asking what the problem with using the framebuffer from sdl was
12:09:00amiconnsdl is supposed to be able to work without X
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12:09:22GodEaterhas anyone tried running a sim like that ?
12:09:44GodEaterscorche: also, you're the chap who kindly built the current VM image - the choice of WM is entirely yours :)
12:09:46Mikachulachlan1212: digital keys and all that
12:10:14Mikachuanyone can change the wm once they installed the vm for themselves
12:10:18GodEaterI'm not bothered one way or the other. I don't personally like fluxbox - but it's far from a bad choice
12:10:41GodEaterat least you didn't choose ratpoison or something even more weird.
12:10:53scorchei actually didnt choose fluxbox
12:10:58scorchebut i do like it
12:11:04GodEaterthen leave it alone
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12:11:20GodEaterXFCE would be huge compared to FB
12:11:53GodEaterWM's are *such* a personal taste thing, it's pointless trying to please everyone at once
12:12:08scorcheagreed, but it is still relatively light-weight, and if other people would vastly prefer it...
12:12:21lachlan1212Mikachu: at the risk of appearing even stupider than I am, I still don't follow- are you talking about the linux based mp3 player?
12:12:29GodEaterwell I don't actually *use* the VM image - so I don't think my opinion counts
12:12:29Mikachulachlan1212: yeah
12:12:50Mikachui only host it :)
12:13:12scorchethen again, it is meaningless to change when people can do that for themselves
12:13:15bluebrotherscorche: use evilwm *fg*
12:14:04GodEaterdoesn't the current set of instructions for using the VMware image assume fluxbox in the "how to start a terminal" bit ?
12:14:14GodEaterif you changed to XFCE you'd have to re-write it
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12:14:23lachlan1212Mikachu: what exactly then are digital keys?
12:14:24Mikachuif you care about what wm is used, surely you can figure out how to start a terminal
12:14:42GodEaterMikachu: I'd have thought so
12:14:47Mikachulachlan1212: a way to make sure only binaries built by the manufacturer runs on the device
12:15:01scorchewell, regardless, there is no reason to change from fluxbox...
12:15:07MikachuGodEater: didn't see that bit about changing the default when i wrote that
12:15:13GodEaterscorche: I agree - leave it bit :)
12:15:26scorcheand if we were to put out an X-less version, we would still have the X version for those who want it
12:15:45Mikachuif you're hardcore you'll make an image with a win32 cross compiler :)
12:16:05*scorche has never compiled in linux for win32
12:16:12GodEaternor me
12:16:21Mikachui have
12:16:27Mikachui think
12:16:30GodEaterclearly we need to make the sim run under Mono/.NET ;)
12:16:42*scorche slaps GodEater
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12:16:48Mikachuor maybe i did use my moms computer for that
12:16:51GodEaterit *was* a joke ;)
12:17:09lachlan1212Mikachu: ahh I see now, but I believe I read somewhere that it was open to outsopen to outside developers
12:17:12GodEaterno no - youre' right - poor taste
12:17:19*GodEater goes to lash himself
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13:01:46markunGodEater: :)
13:03:41Bagder(from discussion earlier) yeah, sdl should be able to work on plain framebuffer
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13:06:58Bagderalthough I've not personally used it
13:07:21Bagderonly raw fb, directfb and qte for me
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13:09:57Mikachusdl can use aalib too, but it might be hard to actually use the sim then :)
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13:15:09n1sI'm fiddeling with safetydan's lang cleanup and wanted to unify some *_RECORDER and *_PLAYER strings to just * and wondered if I shoul use player:"short string" *:"long string" or lcd_charcell:"short string" (and *:"long string")?
13:16:12BagderI doubt we will ever get another charcell device so I don't think it matters much
13:17:20markunbarrywardell: with the bootloader we get a -1 one the Gigabeat, didn't try to debug yet
13:18:33safetydann1s, there's a couple of other places where the lcd_charcell feature is used. Maybe replace them with player as well
13:19:44barrywardellmarkun: hmmm. I'll have a look at that
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13:21:11n1ssafetydan: ok :)
13:21:40safetydann1s, I look forward to your additions
13:21:45safetydanand with that, it's sleep time
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13:22:24Bagderits great to see my features patch being taken into something good
13:24:50barrywardellmarkun: try removing the leading '/' in line 236
13:25:30Mikachuwould it be a crazy idea to not have all the english strings hardocded in the image?
13:25:45Mikachuor just the ones you need to select a new language in the menus
13:26:23BagderMikachu: the area is still needed to load new strings in, so it isn't a waste
13:26:37Mikachuah, i was under impression that new language strings were loaded into another area
13:26:55Mikachui was just thinking from the constrained flash area perspective
13:27:14Bagderimho, we need to drop the flashing of archoses
13:27:35Bagderor make "light" versions for them
13:27:56scorchesuch as removing tagcache?
13:28:01Mikachuisn't that was rombox is?
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13:28:23n1sMaybe 3.0 can be the last official RomBox release for archos, [IDC]Dragon said he managed to squeeze 15 out of BootBox and that should just make it fit...
13:29:03scorcheMikachu: not in the sense of light that he is thinking of, i'm sure
13:29:47Bagderscorche: like that, yes
13:30:27scorchehonestly, it is a nice thing to keep around and work towards...saving binary size benefits all targets (ignoring target specific optimizations) and rombox provides more motivation towards it
13:30:30BagderI'm getting annoyed by all the red builds
13:30:48Mikachumake the broken builds blue :)
13:30:49BagderI want green!
13:31:05pixelmaBagder: then optimise the code :P
13:31:12Bagderit won't help much
13:31:19Bagderwe'll just postpone the death another month
13:33:17scorchethen it is a constant reminder to optimize
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13:33:57Bagderunfortunately, I think it works more like we won't notice when we _really_ break things
13:34:07pixelmaoptimisation would help all targets
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13:36:53Bagderyes, but still
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13:37:31scorche`however, as you know, i (and possibly just i) am of the opinion that we should put a separate TEMPORARY build for rombox that takes out (at least for now) tagcache...and have it clearly stated of course
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13:40:04barrywardellmarkun: I've updated the patch again with what I hope will fix the problem. Can you test again please?
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13:50:44barrywardellLinusN: any luck with testing FS #6554?
13:52:36DataGhostlol. the stupidity of some people
13:52:44DataGhostI just had to explain someone that what he did was wrong
13:53:06DataGhostintentionally destroying data on one of the drives in a raid1, leaving the raid superblock (software raid) and filesystem intact
13:53:13DataGhostand then doing fsck on the array without rebuilding it
13:53:37DataGhostand now he wonders 'what kind of data protection is this?' because his data is trashed. all of it. on both disks
13:53:51DataGhostand it was vital data :')
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14:04:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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14:07:55ppeomsomebody help me..
14:08:15massiveHppeom: that's kind of vauge...
14:08:32ppeomI want to show display album art..
14:08:33scorchenot just "kind of"...
14:08:48scorcheppeom: that is an unsupported to the patch maker
14:09:03deeverdoes rockbox work without theses silly f00, f01, ...folders on the iPod?
14:09:53scorchedeever: considering that those werent created with rockbox, yes...
14:10:31scorchewait a sec....where are those folders?
14:10:38 Quit Slasheri (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
14:10:47deeverscorche: no, i still have the original firmware running
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14:11:17scorcheah...then nevermind...yes it does (i should sleep...)
14:12:14deeverthey are under iPod_Control/Music
14:12:32scorcheyes...with rockbox, you dont need to use itunes
14:12:44massiveHdeever: they might be for the original firmware...
14:13:06scorchemassiveH: that is why he asked about rockbox and not the OF...
14:13:35deeverno itunes, but, instead, .m3u-style playlists?
14:14:03massiveHyou can use itunes, but you need to use the "database" I think
14:14:31scorchedeever: you just load the music through drag-and-drop or any other method really...rockbox relies on playlists, but you do not need to load the playlists in order to play
14:14:37linuxstb_deever: Do you want to continue to be able to play your music in the Apple firmware?
14:15:20deeverlinuxstb_: don't know yet! ;)
14:15:46scorchedeever: well, if you do, then you will need those folders
14:16:06deeveryes, i see..:)
14:16:35scorcheotherwise, you can skip itunes and load songs on a different way....but, you wont be able to use them in the OF (most of us never use the OF anyway though...)
14:18:04massiveHoriginal firmware
14:18:06scorcheoriginal firmware
14:18:26deeverok, obvious!
14:18:36deeverhcs: ;)
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14:20:30deeverbut does RB support .m3u-style playlists?
14:20:50massiveHyeah, and .m3u8
14:22:06deevercool, so i don't need these XML-"crap"-playlists! :)
14:22:30scorcheyou dont need anything in the iPod folders
14:23:13deeverscorche: s/iPod/iTunes/ ;)
14:24:36scorches/folders/folders that are on the device at present
14:25:33deeverSCNR! ;)
14:26:27deeveris there a way to work without iTunes but with the OF on windous?
14:26:46scorchethere are, but they are out of the focus of this channel
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14:33:45tanqok I can't seem to make a database file
14:34:17tanqrockbox can't make one on my ipod and fails
14:34:36tanqI noticed there are a lot of "Bad file descriptor" errors
14:35:02tanqand at the very end it says "couldnt open database_0_tcd at line 362"
14:36:16tanqi wonder, for the ipod, if i'm better of converting my ituneb to the rockbox format.
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14:36:32tanqthan trying to work 30+ gig of raw files
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14:41:18hcsyou'd be best off writing a program to do it so the lazy people of the world can use it
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14:52:53tucozRegarding the discussion earlier on X in the vmware image. Wouldn't e17 work for this? I use it regardless of its in-development status. It feels snappy and would probably run on relatively low-end hardware
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15:09:44tanqi don' think that these have the hardware necessary for e17
15:09:58tanqsure it could probably run it, but as far as usability.
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15:11:39Mikachuthe issue isn't really the wm
15:13:07tucozi thought e17 had quite low demands
15:13:20tanqif I have updates to where do I submit those.
15:13:31tucozthe tracker
15:13:40perldiverdoes cuesheet support patch still conflict with the album art one?
15:14:28deeveri got an error while reading the original bootloader from ipod!
15:14:30deever[INFO] Reading partition table from /dev/sda1
15:14:30deever[INFO] Sector size is 2048 bytes
15:14:30deever[ERR] Bad boot sector signature
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15:15:26linuxstb_deever: Why are you using /dev/sda1?
15:16:33tanqdo the database files go in .rockbox?
15:16:51linuxstb_tanq: Yes.
15:16:55deeverbecause it's the original firmware's partition?
15:16:56tanqi've never gotten anything to create one for me so I have no idea where it should go... ok.
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15:17:46linuxstb_deever: Run ipodpatcher with no arguments to see the usage.
15:17:52deeverlinuxstb_: and the partition with the sound files is /dev/sda2
15:17:53linuxstb_Or do ipodpatcher −−scan
15:19:19deeveroh, the "boot sector signature"! AA55 iirc! ;)
15:22:49deevercool, it's running! :)
15:24:10linuxstb_tanq: You should try and speak to Slasheri the next time he's here - he should hopefully be able to help you debug the problem (he wrote the database).
15:25:11tanqwell i'm thinking since it is taking my desktop this long to process the files on my ipod..
15:25:19perldiverah brickmania menu screen is still broken
15:25:21tanqthat my ipod was going to take at least a week
15:26:36tanqI rewrote some of and it is actually moving way faster than the current file in svn
15:27:22tanqwell off to get some coffee whil this crunches along.
15:28:30hcsdoes work?
15:28:42hcsafter the database was changed it wasn't, has it been fixed?
15:28:59Bagderit has
15:29:41hcsoh, good, I should get itdb2db fixed up
15:31:55tanqoh there already is one of those..
15:32:07tanqi was pondering a itunesdb conversion script
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15:40:15Bagdercvsstat is a cool little script that would be fun to run on rockbox
15:40:33Bagderlike this =>
15:40:44Bagder(for the libssh2 project obviously)
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15:42:31hcstanq, feel free to fix mine...
15:42:59tucozBagder: the codec imports will look great in those stats :)
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15:43:45*tucoz spots a familiar name in the list of developers
15:43:56*Bagder whistles
15:44:26Bagderat 8%
15:44:29Bagderand counting
15:45:17tucozhehe. developer of the month in both november and december. congratulations
15:45:30Bagderyeah, and I have a ~160K patch pending ;-)
15:45:41Bagderthe mother of all monster patches
15:45:53markunBagder: tab -> spaces patch? :)
15:45:59Bagderhaha, I wish
15:46:37BagderI'm doing paid libssh2 development to improve curl's SSH-related support
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15:50:36n1sAny ata.c wizards here? Someone reported in the tracker that disk does not spin down immediately after a rebuffer on standard svn but it does if he calls ara_spindown(-1);
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15:51:48n1sFS #6566
15:51:55LinusNn1s: sounds really odd
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15:53:40LinusNn1s: hmmm, i see a change in the ata thread that might explain it
15:54:57LinusNit looks like there is a 2 second delay there, since the ata callback was introduced
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15:58:30pixelmaI think that was on purpose (has to do with saving changed settings and so on) - amiconn explained that to me once but I keep forgetting the details
15:58:39LinusNi believe so too
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15:59:06fleytinHi, all! could anybody tell me, where the detailed changelogs are published now?
15:59:09n1sit better be left alone then
15:59:27n1sfleytin: on the frontpage
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16:00:17fleytinn1s: They are too brief comparing to previous one which were provided on cvs.
16:00:56GodEaterI can't say I'd noticed a difference
16:00:56LinusNtoo brief? how?
16:01:42massiveHI think he means there are only a few changes visible.
16:01:57massiveHI think he wants to see farther back.
16:01:59bluebrotherthere are still the since... links available
16:02:06bluebrotherlike before
16:02:21markunfleytin: please explain it a bit more
16:02:31Bagderthey are provided exactly as much as before
16:03:57linuxstb_Are people just becoming briefer in their commit messages?
16:04:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:04:37*linuxstb_ is now curious to find the longest commit message
16:05:12pixelmathe shortest being "Oops" ;)
16:05:19*linuxstb_ decides against and goes back to work
16:05:40deeverHey, guys! Thank you for Rockbox! It ROCKS!! :)
16:05:54markundeever: you are welcome :)
16:07:32pixelmamarkun: I've seen the Chicago-font link in the logs (though that's the one I found too). Still thanks for remembering it :)
16:07:43markunoops :)
16:08:56deeveralso, what i want to mention is the fantastic manual! 144 pages should be enough not to oversee a feature! :)
16:10:01markundeever: but also prevents people from reading it and asking the same questions over and over again here and in the forums..
16:10:13 Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
16:10:16bluebrotherand, to be exact, the manual isn't even completely up to date ;-)
16:10:24Nico_PLinusN, linuxstb_: had a look at the cuesheet patch ?
16:10:28markunwell, doesn't prevent them from doing the last part.. :)
16:11:07bluebrotherwe should strip features out of Rockbox until we can describe everything in a 10 paged manual *g*
16:11:13*bluebrother ducks
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16:12:39LinusNNico_P: no, sorry
16:13:03fleytin Sorry, guys, evrything looks fine now.
16:13:44Nico_PLinusN: no problem
16:13:56Nico_Pyou think you'll gave some time toaday ?
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16:14:48MoosNico_P: is your patch ready for SVN now? bug free...
16:14:54LinusNNico_P: we'll see if i find some time this evening
16:15:14Nico_PMoos: i hope so but i haven't had much testing
16:15:15Mooshehe, LinusN the famous busy man :)
16:15:24LinusNtell me about it
16:15:56markunpixelma: did you find any trace of a double size (hi-res) Chicago font?
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16:16:15Nico_Pthe thing is that tomorrow i'm leaving for a week of ski so i won't be around and i'd rather my patch didn't get forgotten ;)
16:16:31Mooschanceux :P
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16:17:32Moosdon't worries ! :-)
16:18:34MoosNico_P: and what's about your album art patch? ready too?
16:19:16Nico_PMoos: album art is another matter... some people want it commited soon and some don't
16:19:34Nico_PLinusN: actually i wanted to know your view on that too
16:20:03Nico_PMoos: so if it were to be commited i'd have to make some changes but basically it's almost ready
16:20:45Moosjust wondering (I don't use AA anymore)
16:21:25pixelmamarkun: I didn't find any other than the the mentioned pix-chacago that could be used right away if that's what you mean. I'm even not sure what I could do with it (which font size it could actually end up if I start editing it).
16:21:27LinusNi think AA should wait until we have in-buffer storage
16:21:30lostlogicNico_P: did you do full metadata on buffer for it?
16:21:34lostlogicah, I'll take that for a no.
16:21:47MoosLinusN: same as cueeshit, no?
16:21:50Nico_Plostlogic: indeed it's no
16:22:00lostlogicNico_P: You can do it, I know you can! :)
16:22:05BagderI could live with it added without MoB
16:22:05LinusNMoos: a freudian slip there?
16:22:11Nico_PMoos: AA is much more memory hungry
16:22:18Mooshaha :-D
16:22:41lostlogicBagder: I think AA should remain a motivator for MoB
16:22:46Nico_Plostlogic: i wish i could but it just seems too much for me
16:23:05Bagderlostlogic: unfortunately I don't think it works as a motivator
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16:23:21Nico_Plostlogic: it doesn't seem to be a very good motivator seeing how long wev' had AA but not MoB
16:23:22linuxstb_8 months with an AA patch and still no MoB....
16:23:40LinusNi agree that it is better to commit it as-is than let it rot in the tracker
16:23:49Mooslinuxstb: indeed
16:23:51lostlogicokokok anyone want to come over to my place in Chicago this weekend and stand over me with a whip until I write MoB?
16:23:53LinusNas long as it doesn't have any impact on the archos
16:24:09*linuxstb_ declines lostlogic's invitation to whip him
16:24:13LinusNlostlogic: tempting, i must say :-)
16:24:27Mooslostlogic: didn't you started work on MoB?
16:24:37lostlogicMoos: I mostly wrote it once upon a time
16:24:41Nico_PLinusN: it does nothing unless there's the WPS tag
16:24:53linuxstb_LinusN: AA won't be enabled for mono targets, so that's not an issue. Cuesheet support would work fine on HWCODEC, so that will increase codesize.
16:24:53LinusNNico_P: i mean code size
16:25:05Mooslostlogic: that what I remenbered
16:25:20linuxstb_(I'm assuming we won't enable AA for mono targets....)
16:25:22Nico_PLinusN: it's ifedefed (HAVE_LCD_BITMAP)... is that enough ?
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16:25:28lostlogicMoos: but it didn't work and something else more important interrupted me which also invalidated my patch
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16:25:57pixelmaNico_P: most of the Archos targets have a (mono) bitmap lcd...
16:26:01LinusNNico_P: no, it has to be disabled for targets with monochrome main lcd
16:26:12Nico_Pok so HAVE_LCD_COLOR it is
16:26:12Mooslostlogic: no luck for this try then :-)
16:26:26LinusNor rather, targets with too little memory :-)
16:26:47linuxstb_We could enable for LCD_DEPTH > 1
16:26:47Nico_PLinusN: then we need HAVE_BIG_MEM :)
16:26:54BagderI would think that AA looks rather silly on 2bit LCDs too
16:27:04LinusN#define HAVE_FEAR_OF_AMICONN
16:27:17Mooshaha :-D
16:27:19BagderLinusN: nah, that would be all targets :-)
16:27:31markunAny left-to-WPS guys in here? Can you answer me in the forum thread?
16:27:47LinusNmarkun: we kick them from the channel when we spot them
16:27:48linuxstb_markun: Are you looking for people in favour or against?
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16:28:11 Quit lowlight (Client Quit)
16:28:25markunlinuxstb_: I want to know what they think about that patch if we get a root menu..
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16:28:50LinusNlowlight: talk about hit-and-run :-)
16:28:57Nico_Pok and should i use buffer_alloc to make room for a few bitmaps in order to have the disk spin less ? or just have it spin each time a new bitmap is needed ?
16:29:22ppeomCan change album art location?
16:29:28*LinusN has to go, cu around
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16:29:38lostlogiclowlight: what is the working and applying status of this patch?
16:30:04lostlogiclowlight: your approach is remarkably different from mine and reflects our different areas of knowledge.
16:30:04MoosNico_P: less spin better will be imho
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16:30:20markunppeom: location of what?
16:30:21 Quit lowlight (Client Quit)
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16:30:36markunppeom: the file?
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16:30:49*n1s is gone for the weekend, tembuilding ;D
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16:30:59Moosmarkun: the cover maybe
16:31:18ppeomcover.bmp wps location ...
16:31:35markunMoos: ok, you answer him, I have no clue about AA :)
16:31:53Moosno more here neither :)
16:32:14linuxstb_Do you mean the location the image is displayed on the screen, or the location of the bmp files on the disk?
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16:33:42Nico_Pppeom: if you mean the location in memory then it's currently in the WPS image buffer
16:35:41low_lightlostlogic: it works except I don't allow buffering to overwrite the metadata buffer of the current file (until I figure out how to move the metadata within the buffer)
16:37:05Moosthat's already good :)
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16:37:34low_lightlostlogic: I thought it was easiest to simply replace the id3v2buf with one of arbitrary size
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16:37:54Mooslowlight: are you still working on it?
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16:38:39low_lightlostlogic: and that way everything still handled by metadata.c
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16:41:01low_lightMoos: need to do some testing.
16:41:31Moosis the patch in the tracker?
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16:42:22linuxstb_low_light: I thought there would be one fixed static metadata buffer for the current track and the data would be copied from the audio buffer to that static buffer when the track was played?
16:43:40lostlogiclinuxstb_: that was my patch's strategy
16:44:12lostlogiclow_light: in your method it looks like the track structs still exist in a statically allocated area
16:44:18lostlogicI was also trying to move those to the buffer
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16:45:43low_lightlostlogic: I was going to try that, but it required more changes to playback.c than I wanted to make
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16:49:43low_lightlinuxstb_, lostlogic: the metadata can easily by copied to a static buffer when the track is big?
16:50:50tokyotouristHi, my H140 is flashed ( a while ago), Rombox. i accidently excuted rockbox.iriver do i have to reflash ?
16:51:44markuntokyotourist: sounds unlikely
16:52:32tokyotouristok, so i can just reload my config file and its business as usual ?
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16:53:10markuntokyotourist: ah, the settings got reset?
16:54:02 Nick [[toffe]] is now known as [[[toffe]]] (n=[toffe]
16:54:28markuntokyotourist: I think you should first reboot to get back to your rombox kernel or they will probably reset again on reboot
16:54:40pixelmatokyotourist: if rockbox.iriver is just the firmware file (as I assume) you just rolo'ed it. If you now shut the player off and on it should load the firmware from flash as it used to be (at least this is how it works on my Ondio)
16:56:03linuxstb_low_light: I don't think we have a choice - it needs to be a worst-case static buffer. But we could allocate it with buffer_alloc() at boot time, and it would only allocate space for things like album-art and cuesheets if those features were enabled.
16:56:08lostlogiclow_light: that's what I was talking about our different approaches, since I'm most familiar with playback.c, I started with putting the track structs on the buffer and actually I don't remember touching metadata.c at all, maybe that's why my code never worked...
16:56:34tokyotouristhmm, after accidently "Rolo'ing" it, i did restart the player, but it didn't restore my settings, thats why I reloaded my config file
16:57:17tokyotouristwhich is why i was wondering if i had to reflash it
16:57:19lostlogiclow_light: did metadata.c used to keep tag the id3 tags from the files actually in memory after it loaded them into the track struct and gave them back to playback?
16:58:27lostlogicI think if we move the track structs to the buffer and then allocate a track struct separate from the buffer it will have the 'right' amount of space.
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17:00:09bluebrothertokyotourist: did you install a current version? Settings are stored in a plain file since a couple of dayz
17:00:48tokyotouristnope unforetunately my build is two weeks old
17:01:47low_lightlostlogic: not really sure what you mean (about metadata.c). it loads the metadata from a file into tracks[].id3 and uses it's id3v2buf to store string data
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17:02:36low_lightid3v2buf is currently 300 bytes
17:02:45low_lightfor each track
17:03:42Nico_Plinuxstb_: what you say implies there would be a limit to the max size of album art
17:04:59Mikachucan't you just render the album art directly on the wps backdrop?
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17:06:47Nico_PMikachu: i don't know about that but anyway it wouldn't change the problem much...
17:07:21lostlogiclow_light: gotcha yeah, so the MoB can be achieved without touching metadata.c as I was trying to do it, if you move the tracks entirely onto the buffer.
17:07:53linuxstb_Nico_P: I would make Rockbox allocate the buffer based on the size specified in the WPS - meaning a reboot is needed when the user changes WPSs.
17:08:08Nico_Plinuxstb_: ah, yes, forgot about that
17:08:49low_lightlostlogic: but with a fixed size id3v2buf?
17:09:03 Quit ppeom ()
17:09:24lostlogiclow_light: yes, it's only one that's statically allocated now, so 's no biggie.
17:09:34lostlogiclow_light: like linuxstb_ said, one worst case static area
17:09:47lostlogicincluding max image size and max id3 size
17:10:42low_lightbut there's more than one track loaded at a time
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17:12:03linuxstb_The current track's data is in the static buffer, and the data for all the other tracks is in the audio buffer - and copied to the static buffer when they are played.
17:12:12lostlogicwhat he said.
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17:14:54low_lightgot that...but what's the point if you continue to use a fixed size id3v2buf for the "other tracks"
17:15:17lostlogiclow_light: fixed size, but on the audio buffer a couple of hundred bytes not matters
17:15:20linuxstb_The point is that you don't have a fixed number of metadata buffers (currently 32 on swcodec).
17:16:18linuxstb_Apparently it's the "norwegian language course problem"...
17:16:39tokyotouristwondering if .rockbox wouldn't be a better place for rockbox.iriver file, instead of root
17:17:12lostlogictokyotourist: I believe it's allowed to be placed in there.
17:17:15linuxstb_tokyotourist: You can move it there if you want - the bootloader looks in both plavces.
17:17:29tokyotouristah thats nice
17:17:54linuxstb_But be careful - it looks in .rockbox first, so don't forget to always move it after unzipping a new build.
17:18:04Arathisbarrywardell: did I hear right, that there's a rockboy patch for h10?
17:18:38linuxstb_Arathis: Yes, it's on the patch tracker.
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17:19:15Arathisand it works for all h10?
17:19:16*pondlife hears the sound of buffered metadata
17:19:28*lostlogic hugs pondlife
17:19:41pondlifelostlogic: Don't hug - document!
17:19:44linuxstb_Arathis: I think so, check the patch comments.
17:19:55lostlogicwant to come over and make me code this weekend? :-P
17:20:16pondlifelostlogic: Hmm, you've been coding with Myzar??
17:20:39pondlifeBad joke, read ALL the IRC logs
17:21:04pondlifeAnyway, can I suggest that either you or lowlight document the proposed buffer format before too soon...
17:21:20lostlogicpondlife: well that's just it
17:21:26pondlifeI personally want rid of as much of the tracks structure as possible!
17:21:29lostlogicour proposed formats differ fundamentally
17:21:46pondlifeSo lets have a format war
17:21:48lostlogicpondlife: rid of it? I just want to move it as-is onto the buffer
17:22:05pondlifeWe'll want to keep a start pointer for each track at least.
17:22:35low_lightlinuxstb_, lostlogic: But you are saying the static metadata buffer is of variable size determined at boot depending on the features loaded enabled... how can you have a fixed size buffer for the "other tracks"
17:23:41tokyotouristwhen i used "Create Playlist" it also scanned the contents of my Recycle Bin, is this a bug or a feature ?
17:24:18linuxstb_You can have variable-sized buffers (variable in terms of having or not having optional components like cuesheets and album art), one for each track in the audio buffer.
17:24:23pondlifeI'm imagining an audio buffer where nothing is fixed size - it's all serialised, and each bit of info is prefixed by a header.
17:25:03pondlifeWe can then just decide whether the buffering bothers with the album art data or not, depending on the config.
17:25:22pondlifeThe playback code will then be a buffer parser.
17:25:34pondlifeDoes any of that waffle make sense?
17:26:41pondlifeBut the key is getting this documented, then we can have one person/group work on the buffering, and another person/group on the playback/unbuffering.
17:26:45linuxstb_pondlife: Yes, but we need one static buffer to store the metadata for the currently playing track - we don't want the complication of leaving it in the audio buffer, and dealing with moving it around.
17:27:24pondlifeWhy not just have a pointer to it in the buffer? I don't see the extraction being particularly slow.
17:27:43linuxstb_What happens when you're playing a track larger than the buffer?
17:28:04pondlifeGood point!
17:28:26pondlifeI suppose you're right; either that or we need to be able to scroll a window within the buffer . urgh.
17:28:49pondlifeWhat about next track info - that too?
17:29:00 Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC")
17:29:10pondlifeOr is it reasonable to only display that once we've got space to buffer it?
17:29:32low_lightnext track is also a problem when the current track is greater than the buffer
17:29:41linuxstb_That's how it works now - the next track info is only displayed when the start of the next track is buffered.
17:29:42low_lightin my approach
17:29:52*pondlife turns up unannounced after 2 months and spouts off uninformed thoughts.
17:30:22pondlifeI don't think next track is so important - I'd be happy to wait, but I don't DJ with long tracks.
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17:30:48low_lightI thought next track info is loaded even if the next track is not loaded
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17:30:58linuxstb_low_light: Not afaik.
17:31:11Mikachunot even with tagcache?
17:31:44*linuxstb_ shrugs
17:31:58tokyotouristthere's a cut menu but i dont see a paste menu, does it exist ? ( i have checked the manual)
17:32:04pondlifeI don't thnk tagcache should be involved with MOB, maybe later as an optimisation?
17:32:29Mikachuif you have tagcache, why reread the metadata at all?
17:32:31low_lightwhat does audio_read_next_metadata do then?
17:33:14tokyotouristyes there is a paste menu :-)
17:34:07lostlogicpondlife: that turning up after 2 months is my behavior :)
17:34:20pondlifeMaybe we should synchronise watches?
17:34:21lostlogicand no, the current code displays next track before it begins buffering that track
17:34:35lostlogicit has a separate read next metadata code path that opens that file just for metadata read at the end of a buffer run
17:35:01pondlifeThat's to ensure that next track info is always available?
17:35:13lostlogicpondlife: at least at the end of a buffer run it is available, yes
17:35:26pondlifeOK, so we need to keep copies of current and next track metadata seperately as well as on buffer?
17:35:38lostlogicas for serializing the data to be placed on the buffer, that doesn't bother me.
17:36:27lostlogicI'm not sure how I feel about the next track, tbh
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17:36:41lostlogicbut at least the current
17:36:46pondlifeDo we agree on a basic structure of 2 threads (or similar) - buffering and playback?
17:36:55pondlifei.e. They should be independent
17:37:07lostlogiclet's not change too much at once is my thought on that question
17:37:50pondlifeFair enough. But there is a bug in the current code where buffering stops happening.
17:38:12pondlifeI was hoping to simplify that stuff sooner rather than later.
17:38:58pondlifeMight be metadata related - I think it only happens when you have the full 32 tracks on the go.
17:39:43lostlogicand I do think that there need to be two separate threads, but I also do think (see the ML) that we need to pay attention to how often we're context switching, because 5-7% of processor time is being spent in switch_thread according to whatzizname's profiling results
17:39:58low_lightsince the playback experts are here...why the complicated track skipping routines (wind_forward, wind_backwards)? why when skipping to a track can't you just do buf_ridx = tracks[new_track].buf_idx.
17:40:02lostlogicpondlife: that would make sense, the track structure isn't heavily tested at that edge case
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17:40:20lostlogiclow_light: because buf_idx didn't used to exist
17:40:40pondlifeIndeed. It might not be seperate threads needed, but the processes should be running independently (only need to share the free buffer pointer etc.)
17:40:55pondlifeI mean processes in a design sense here.
17:41:25lostlogicYes, I suppose we could call quick_buffer() instead of yield() from codecs if we were so in our minds
17:41:35lostlogicbut then we'd still need to yield at some point for gui threads
17:41:38lostlogicso overall, I vote two threads
17:42:16lostlogiclow_light: I think we can probably do away with that code although the double checking it provides is kinda nice IMO
17:45:15pondlifelostlogic: Would you object if "your" wiki page (SoftwareCodecPlayback) got a big revamp - removal of the bug reports to Flyspray for instance?
17:45:56pondlifeIt would be nice if the design stuff could be put on the wiki, even if it's vague. Need to start with the goals.
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17:46:37pondlifeKeeping It Simpler Still being #1 IMHO
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17:47:07lostlogicpondlife: please change the wiki page.
17:47:22lostlogicpondlife: and yes KISS is definitely something that we can still strive for a lot more of in the playback code
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17:53:48lostlogichmm... I still haven't learned how to commit to SVN...
17:53:56Mikachu'svn commit'
17:54:15lostlogicI assume there's some configuration other than the anonymous pull I already did involved in that.
17:54:33Mikachui think you want to talk to Bagder
18:00:36bluebrotherjust do a commit from any anomymously checked out tree, svn will ask you about username / password
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18:03:45lostlogicbluebrother: cool
18:04:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:07:16bluebrotherbtw, svn will try your local username first
18:07:29lostlogicmore cool
18:07:37bluebrotherso if that's different just press enter and it will ask for a different one
18:08:09bluebrotherI was really sceptical about svn, but I like it much better than cvs now ;-)
18:08:37bluebrotherhmm ... its simply "svn diff" now, no more -u
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18:08:42lostlogicmy only complaint is that I now use 4 different versioning systems most days: svn, git, cvs and accurev
18:09:00bluebrothernever heard of accurev
18:09:08SimpsonIs there any way to take a screenshot of a Rockbox screen?
18:09:12lostlogicif you ever do, RUN AND HIDE
18:09:34bluebrotheris that also known as scm?
18:09:47bluebrotherwritten in Java, slow as hell?
18:10:05Mikachuscm means source code management usually
18:10:09lostlogichehe, no, but we have a whole SCM team here dedicated to dealing with it... hmm... it is written in java and slower than molasis at the north pole
18:10:21Mikachusource control management even
18:10:39MikachuSimpson: i think so
18:10:40bluebrothersome guy who was studying with me (but managed to finish earlier) told me about some version control system
18:11:00bluebrothercalled scm, written in java, and ...
18:11:19bluebrotherso bad I can't even think of an english word for it ;)
18:11:30bluebrothersome over-complicated thing
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18:12:07bluebrotherand, of course, pretty much expensive.
18:12:49lostlogicsounds a lot like accurev −− we have this concept called streams, and don't worry, streams will save the day and make all of your VCS related problems go away, that's what they tell us.
18:13:51tanq~ok so i've noticed that rockbox usually pukes on my 4g ipod.. I just need to see if it is the database update that is causing it to do this
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18:14:16tanqusually after n minutes.. not really sure what n is yet..
18:14:29bluebrotherI think I'll need to ask him. He was reeeally thrilled about that thing (because he knows better tools :)
18:14:31tanqor if it is even a fixed time.. heh
18:15:02lostlogicbluebrother: I've seem hammers that were better version control systems for a large enterprise than accurev.
18:15:27tanqi've seen some horrific CM type systems
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18:16:19bluebrotherlet's hope I'll never be required to use that then
18:16:24lostlogicI don't understand why proprietary VCSs exist... there are such _GOOD_ open source ones out there.
18:17:06SimpsonMikachu: found it, thanks.
18:17:11bluebrotherbecause some sales guy will buy them and they want ... support ... and, worst of all: if it doesn't cost huuuge amounts it's definitely crap
18:17:34tanqnot to start a language flame war, but just because something is written and a particular language, and is slow, doesn't mean its the language. Sometimes it is just poor architecture and bad code.
18:17:42tanqs/and a/in a/
18:17:51lostlogictanq: 'course, I have nothing against java for the most part
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18:18:06lostlogichowever writing a VCS with a CLI in Java is poor planning, because every CLI command tehn needs to fire up the 30m JVM
18:18:06goffaon the version control:
18:18:10goffathat's what it boils down to
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18:18:21Mikachuanother good reason to use proprietary scms is if the company goes away you just lost all your code
18:19:50lostlogicMikachu: well only if you were storing it on their servers like bitkeeper...
18:19:59tanqgoffa: that is too funny
18:20:01lostlogicwe still own our servers with accurev at least
18:20:16Mikachuin either case you have to spend some time moving code
18:20:21bluebrotherbut if you can't access your data history anymore it isn't good as well
18:20:40bluebrotherthe best way is always doing it right the first time
18:21:16*bluebrother is working on broken code atm −− looks like they had no idea on how to do it right in the first place
18:22:03tanqwhat was the quote i read "code as if the person that will maintain it is a psycopath that knows where you live" or something along those lines
18:22:35pondlifelostlogic: I've started to update the wiki, but got to go now :(
18:22:40 Quit pondlife ("disconnected has pondlife")
18:22:55lostlogicI go with the code as if the person who will hafta maintain it lives in india and will never know your name philosophy at work... because oh yeah, they do...
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18:45:48datachildi get this weird error when trying to shut my iPod G5 off (using rockbox) "Data abort at 00053270"
18:46:24datachildanyone know what to do?
18:46:29datachildsince i cant power it off
18:48:10datachildanyone got a clue?
18:49:21Arathisa question about SVN checkout: do I need just "rockbox" trunk or is there still a "rockbox-devel" one too?
18:50:05lostlogicis our coding standard still 80 character lines?
18:52:08linuxstb_Arathis: Yes, no.
18:52:15linuxstb_lostlogic: Yes.
18:52:36datachildanyone got any ideas of what migth be wrong for me?
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18:52:56linuxstb_datachild: When did this start?
18:53:02datachildright now
18:53:05datachildjust installed
18:53:18datachildeverything works perfect otherwise
18:53:29linuxstb_Is this the first Rockbox version you've installed?
18:54:25lostlogiclinuxstb_: good, then I get to reformat playback.c and whine about it.
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19:35:04buzzfarvehi, are there any unofficial builds of rockbox that have the ipod nano rockboy patch in it? i cannott install patched myself and i would like to use rockboy on my ipod nano
19:36:41buzzfarveok well i gues no one here can help me...
19:36:51lostlogicUSE PATIENCE
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19:37:06lostlogiche waited a minute.
19:37:31Mikachui've seen shorter
19:38:04lostlogicI committed no functional changes for my first commit in months :-D
19:42:54Sujdikhey everyone.... I was trying to patch my ipod video firmware... but it bugs. It should increase the speed of the scroll (well, it REALLY does, but much more than I expected). Can anyone help me?
19:43:15lostlogicSujdik: what'd you change?
19:43:26lostlogicpost a link to a diff.
19:43:42Sujdikscrolling speed
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19:45:43Sujdikthis one:
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19:47:09lostlogicok, so what's the problem? it looks like a reasonable approach to adding acceleration...
19:47:53Mikachuthe scroll wheel accel patch i tried (which was a while back) was very fast
19:48:12lostlogicthis one is configurable... fast faster and fastest...
19:49:26lostlogicSujdik: you can either 1) modify the patch to accelerate less or 2) ask the creator of the patch to do so by posting on flyspray.
19:49:27Sujdik... a single step rolls down 1 page and a half
19:51:35lostlogicSujdik: I'm guessing here, but it's probably not too hard of a modification to make it behave as you'd expect, some change of multiplier or something.
19:51:58Sujdikmaybe... I'll try that
19:52:15SujdikI haven't read the .diff actually
19:52:24SujdikI don't know =P
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19:55:41ArathisIs it normal that rockboy sound is lame and noisy? Or could it be because of the H10 CPU isn't fully used yet?
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20:04:04Sujdikanother question... is there any program to remotely control Rockbox configurations (I mean a front-end for the config.cfg)
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20:07:18Arathis@rockboy (non h10) users: is audio slow and somewhat cracky on your players?
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20:10:12linuxstb_Sujdik: You can use any text editor to edit .cfg files.
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20:11:45LloreanArathis: Cracky, but it plays at the right pace. Rockboy really still needs a LOT of work.
20:12:24Sujdiki know that... but not only for the config file... any program that does things like initialize and update database
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20:13:37linuxstb_Sujdik: No.
20:14:08ArathisLlorean: Than it might be H10 related. Thanks for reply. But I'm glad it works on H10 now in any way.
20:14:27LloreanArathis: If the gameplay slows down at all, so will the music.
20:14:53Lloreanlinuxstb_: Isn't there a script for updating the database? Though that's unrelated to the .cfg
20:17:34linuxstb_I didn't think a partly-working perl script was what Sujdik was looking for.
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20:19:00Sujdikthat would help to develop my own =)
20:20:51linuxstb_There are two things in the tools/ directory in the rockbox source - database.c which is the start of a standalone C program to generate the database files using the same code Rockbox itself uses, and which does it in Perl, but only for MP3 and Ogg Vorbis.
20:21:38linuxstb_Hopefully in time, the database.c code will be integrated in rbutil - the in-progress Rockbox GUI installer.
20:23:33amiconnlostlogic: I don't know which scroll acceleration patch you were talking about, but when I tested Slasheri's version, it felt worse than what is in svn
20:23:40LloreanThat'd be nice. A checkbox for "Initialize database while installing" and you're done.
20:23:51amiconnThe svn version might be a little slow, but its behaviour is consistent
20:24:15amiconnSlasheri's version was faster but really jumpy
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20:28:38amiconnNico_P: Imho album art should be added to all targets except monochrome, but it has 2 prerequisites: (1) metadata on buffer, (2) viewports
20:29:21amiconnWith dithering it shouldn't look too bad on 2 bit
20:29:51Nico_Pamiconn: i'm not sure they're real prerequisites... it can be done without these... not as nicely but still.
20:30:02amiconnImho they are prerequisites
20:30:16amiconnOtherwise it's just another big hack.
20:30:53Nico_Pand i'd like to be able to work on other things without having to keep thoses patches in sync while i wait for these things that never seem to come
20:30:57*Llorean relearns never to admit in the forums he knows how to patch.
20:31:35Nico_Pi am willing to make the changes needed to adapt my code to new features though
20:32:04Lloreanamiconn: Why is viewports a prereq? I understand MoB, but since it's treated as images currently are anyway, viewports is only nice for the text constraints.
20:32:32Nico_PLlorean: thanks, that was going to be my next point :)
20:33:11amiconnLlorean: Without viewports aa is either an ugly hack, or almost useless
20:33:24Nico_Pamiconn: i agree it's a bit of a hack without MoB but why keep it out of SVN when it can be disabled so easily ?
20:33:31lostlogicamiconn: yeah, I don't know who's patch I was linked to either :-P
20:33:33amiconnHow would you place (scrolling) text besides the aa image?
20:33:34LloreanHow is it a hack without viewports?
20:33:56LloreanOn the Gigabeat and Sansa at least, you've got enough vertical screen space to not have to ask that question.
20:34:02amiconnYOu need to constrain the text line somehow
20:34:13amiconnLlorean: Rockbox is multiplatform...
20:34:16Nico_Pamiconn: there is a patch to do that
20:34:21LloreanOn the other targets you can simply put non-scrolling text such as battery level, volume, playlist position, etc next to it.
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20:34:29*amiconn thinks there's too much focus on features vs. stability :/
20:34:31w1ll14mhi all
20:34:47Arathiswhere are the rockboy button settings saved? I messed them up :/
20:34:50amiconnYou can't build a solid house on shaky foundations
20:34:50Nico_Pamiconn: "scrolling margins"... it never got into CVS/SVN because of viewports
20:35:09LloreanWhile there are some limitations regarding its usability before Viewports (I don't disagree that viewports make it a lot more functional) I think that they shouldn't be holding it out.
20:35:22Nico_Pamiconn: solid foundations are too long and too hard to build :)
20:35:25LloreanIf it got in, it might increase the incentive for some other people to get viewports working. ;)
20:35:37Llorean"it" being AA
20:35:50amiconnE.g. the boost/unboost issues regarding voice... one reason for me to prefer my trusty hwcodec targets
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20:38:18amiconnNico_P: Viewports *will* happen. The question is just when, but that (also) depends on what other nasty issues come up which need fixing
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20:39:18Arathisnobody knows where rockboy's button settings are saved?
20:39:41Nico_Pamiconn: i don't doubt they will happen, and i'm eager to see them. but i feel we can commit AA without them. It'll make a lot of people happy and i'll adjust it to viewports when they arrive
20:40:25Nico_Pit's just that i have AA ready now and it's a shame to hold it when it already works quite nicely
20:41:06Nico_Pit'll also give me more time to work on more interesting things like the WPS tokenizer
20:41:09LloreanWhat about Metadata on Buffer?
20:41:50Nico_PLlorean: IMHO it's almost the same issue... You can replace viewports by MoB in what i just said :)
20:42:29lowlightLlorean: there was a was discussion about 3 hrs ago
20:43:36lowlightimho, these 2 things (aa and mob) need to be documented somewhere if the main devs don't have the time
20:44:00lowlightI meant viewports not aa
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20:44:54lowlightthere are others willing to do the work
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20:46:16Nico_Plowlight: i agree. with docs guidelines it would be much easier for someone to step in... I tried and just got discouraged by playback.c
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20:46:39Nico_Peven though i'm starting to have a basic understanding of it
20:46:57Nico_Pmaybe i could help if others gave me starting points
20:47:11Nico_Pbut just doing the whole thing alone is too much
20:47:38amiconnHmm, one prerequisite that held me back from working on viewports is no longer missing :)
20:47:55Nico_Pamiconn: what was it ?
20:48:23amiconnI need to shuffle around some lcd code, and I don't want to break history, so I was waiting for svn
20:50:53Nico_Pamiconn: what i'd like to know is wether you are firmly opposed to AA enough to veto its inclusion in SVN or if you're willing to let it get in
20:51:04Nico_Pdespite it's flaws
20:51:05amiconnNico_P: Unfortunately I have to agree, playback.c is really discouraging :(
20:51:06lostlogiclowlight: so speaking of MoB and design discussion: I disagree with your approach and I disagree with pondlife's proposal.
20:51:28lostlogicYour approach doesn't make adding album art to the buffered data easy, it makes adding album art almost as hard as putting the tag info on.
20:51:53lostlogicPondlife's serialization would overcomplicate the code and prevent direct memcpys between buffer and static buffer so I also don't like that.
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20:51:58*amiconn need to get some understanding of playback.c for another big project: pb engine unification, going together with core pcm playback on hwcodec
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20:52:19lostlogicamiconn: it's a lot more understandable than it was last year when you were saying that ;)
20:52:31amiconnhmm :/
20:52:38lowlightin my MoB approach, get_metadata() should look for cover art and add it to the metadata buffer. why is that hard?
20:53:13*amiconn thinks he should concentrate on one big thing first: viewports
20:53:26amiconnSome small things can go in parallel
20:53:28lowlightin my MoB approach, get_metadata() should also look for cuesheets and add that to the metadata buffer.
20:53:28lostlogiclowlight: ah, I wasn't fully thinking in your thinking. yes, that works.
20:53:57lowlightthey just need a pointer in the id3 struct...id3.album_art
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20:54:36lostlogiclowlight: I was considering cuesheets / album art not to be part of the id3 struct and to therefor need separate entries in the track struct, which is why I didn't see it the way you are.
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20:55:04Nico_PI think a pointer to these in the id3 struct is the way to go
20:55:48Nico_Pit's what i've wanted from the start
20:55:57lowlightcuesheets are more like subtracks which would also extend to flacs with embedded cuesheets and multistream oggs
20:56:14Nico_Plowlight: and MP4 files with chapters
20:56:20linuxstb_Let's not support chained oggs though...
20:56:49linuxstb_IIUC, they require you to scan the whole file to find the individual tracks - they are simply "cat *.ogg > chained.ogg".
20:57:00Nico_Pall that waould need changes to support all these would be the parsing func
20:57:03*amiconn will probably implement another gfx feature along the way to viewports: transparent bitmaps (for all targets, not just 16 bit colour)
20:57:14Mikachu8bit transparent?
20:57:18amiconnIt's needed, and it should be quite simple
20:57:25amiconnMikachu: Nah, 1 bit
20:57:25Mikachuerr, i guess it might not be exactly 8
20:57:39Nico_Pamiconn: what about 32 bit ?
20:57:45Nico_Pwould that be possible
20:57:56linuxstb_None of our targets have 32-bit LCDs...
20:58:04Mikachuor 24
20:58:16Nico_Pcan't it be done by software ?
20:58:27*amiconn doesn't understand
20:58:29lostlogichmmmmmmmm. lowlight my argument is weakened, but I still believe that the track structs should die so that we don't have the potential of 'running out' of tracks.
20:58:34Mikachualpha transparency is much slower than 1bit transparency
20:58:39amiconnWe have 1-bit, 2-bit and 16-bit targets
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20:58:44Mikachuyou have to read the target memory first
20:58:44Nico_Pamiconn: i'm speaking of an alpha channel
20:58:49linuxstb_Nico_P: Bitmaps are always converted to native lcd format when they are loaded.
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20:59:18amiconnForget alpha. Text drawing is slow as it is on colour lcds. We don't want to make it crawl
20:59:36Lloreanlostlogic: With formats like SID and NSF, it's really easy to have a whole bunch of tracks in one 32mb buffer anyway.
20:59:44amiconnRockbox targets are embedded systems, not desktops in the GHz range
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20:59:55Lloreanamiconn: And 18-bit, but we don't use it, right?
21:00:30lostlogicLlorean: yes, that's my point.
21:00:37amiconnLlorean:Na, not really
21:00:43lowlightlostlogic: I i said i wasn't up to the task 'cause that seemed like a big change to playback...although if we are keeping a static current track struct it's not so big
21:00:46Nico_Plostlogic: is lowlight suggesting something different from "1 static id3 struct and the others in buffer" ?
21:01:04lostlogicNico_P: difference between id3 struct and track struct
21:01:16amiconnIt's rather weird: the H300 lcd controller is capable of true 18 bit, but is set to 16 bit (by some id pins, i.e. not changeable by software)
21:01:24Nico_Pah indeed, sorry
21:01:36lostlogicNico_P: his implementation keeps the existing track structs (all 32 of them) other than the id3 info, I think we need to do away with them
21:01:49lostlogicand apparently we do agree about that, it's just a matter of me actually doing it.
21:02:07*linuxstb_ packs his whip and heads to the airport
21:02:10amiconnAnd the X5 lcd controller is set to 18 bit, but it's actually only pseudo-18-bit. The internal framebuffer is 16 bit and the controller dithers on transfer
21:02:11Nico_Pwalk in the park :)
21:02:21zefieman i should return my sansa c240. newegg has a sale where i could get the 2gb model for the same price
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21:02:48amiconnWe drive it in (true) 16 bit mode by a special trick. Video uses the "full" pseudo-18 bit mode
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21:04:57lowlightNico_P: my approach was to simply replace the fixed size id3.id3v2buf[]. That's the limiting factor when get_metadata() retrieves data.
21:05:37lostlogicand unlike when I tried it, his way works :-P
21:05:53lowlightI don't see why this approach can't still be used even if the track structs are on the buffer too
21:06:51lostlogiclowlight: it sould just be unnecessary to do yours if the track struct is going, would result in double work
21:06:51linuxstb_But do we need two static buffers? One for the next track?
21:07:11lostlogiclinuxstb_: it (mutter) seems so
21:07:19amiconnlinuxstb: Only if we want to provide next track info at all times
21:07:39amiconnOn swcodec we currently do so, on hwcodec we never did
21:08:04linuxstb_Yes, I didn't realise until a couple of hours ago that swcodec makes a special effort to do that.
21:08:16amiconnOn hwcodec, next track info is only available if the start of the next track is already buffered
21:08:31lostlogicI like it.
21:09:01linuxstb_Yes, so do I. It feels like a bug (from a user's point of view) if the next-track info is only sometimes shown.
21:09:29amiconnImho that's enough (especially since next-track-in-buffer is a lot more likely on swcodec due to the bigger ram), but then I usually don't use next track info in wps
21:09:33lostlogichaha, I was saying that I like the lazy way of not trying too hard :-D
21:09:35lowlightcould also make a get_metadata(quick) which skips stuff like AA, etc. and can fit into a smaller static buffer
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21:10:00lostlogiclowlight: that's what I was thinking, maybe have a next track id3 tag info only area
21:10:43linuxstb_Doesn't swcodec also only buffer a small amount first, then waits, then fills the buffer completely?
21:11:00amiconnHmm, it seems that metadata on buffer and playback engine unification are somewhat related...
21:11:06Mikachuthat sounds like something it might do after a skip
21:11:28lostlogiclinuxstb_: I think that behavior was killed off at some point
21:11:29lowlightlinuxstb_: lostlogic took that out
21:11:37linuxstb_Hurray :)
21:11:45amiconnMight be a good thing to tackle at devcon if that's not too far into the future...
21:11:53lostlogicyeah, let's have a devcon.
21:12:03lostlogicI'm bored and I have vacation days to kill.
21:12:36amiconnIiuc, it would be helpful to have all metadata handling in one place, somewhere under apps/
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21:13:05amiconnBut that's not currently possible because of the hwcodec playback engine being firmware code, and needing id3 handling
21:13:21lostlogicI assume any separate files (aa, cuesheet) are specified in the 'normal' tag info?
21:13:53Lloreanlostlogic: Right now I think they're just done by filename matching.
21:14:17lostlogicLlorean: mph
21:14:20linuxstb_amiconn: Do you think a worthwhile first step would be to separate the hwcodec playback code more cleanly into apps and firmware code?
21:15:08*amiconn hates it when there are 2 interesting things and he doesn't know which one to work on ://
21:15:32linuxstb_I normally end up doing nothing when in that situation....
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21:15:43amiconnYeah, that's the problem
21:15:47Mikachumake a poll :)
21:16:13lowlightlostlogic: I guess I don't see track-structs-on-the-buffer as intimately related to metadata-on-the-buffer...
21:16:29lowlight...the track struct contains an id3 struct with either a fixed size buffer for metadata (currently id3v2buf[300]) or the ability to have arbitrary one (as in my patch)
21:18:43relaxedRunning rockbox on my 5.5 Gen 30gb ipod and it's froze on the "Do not disconnect" screen. It's not flashing. Anyone know how I can restart it? Holding play or play + menu does nothing.
21:18:46lostlogiclowlight: if I were to do track structs on buffer after you do your patch, we end up having two sets of buffered metadata management code to handle pulling the current track metadata off of the buffer and adjusting pointers
21:18:57linuxstb_relaxed: Hold MENU+SELECT
21:19:12The-Compilerrelaxed: Try to hold select and menu
21:19:20relaxedthanks so much :)
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21:21:27lostlogiclowlight: I have no problem with you going ahead and finishing up and applying your patch, but if / when TSoB is done it will obsolete much of it, I feel.
21:21:30lowlightlostlogic: Unless you are changin the track struct, the only pointer is to the codecbuf, all the pointers are in the id3 struct.
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21:21:41dionoeaamiconn: the issue with rockpaint on non color targets is that the picture buffer is easy to handle/draw to on color targets (each short in the array is a pixel) while it isn't on grey scale targets. (the other issue is that the code is a real mess ... kind of my fault i guess :D)
21:21:47The-CompilerAnyone here who speaks German?
21:21:50lostlogiclowlight: trunuf
21:21:53dionoea(this is in reply to something 20 hours ago)
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21:22:50lostlogiclowlight: yes, there will be plenty of reuse, you're right.
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21:23:53linuxstb_dionoea: Rockbox contains lots of drawing functions - in the core or the xlcd lib.
21:24:06dionoealinuxstb_: but those don't draw in a buffer
21:24:11dionoeathey only draw to the screen
21:24:17linuxstb_Then change them...
21:25:16dionoeaanyways, that was just a reply to amiconn's comment :) i don't need rockpaint on a greyscale target :) (and i don't need it on a color target either ... makes me wonder why i ever wrote that (well parts of it))
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21:25:57lowlightlostlogic: I guess I don't see where your approach handles metadata besides just changing the size of the id3.id3v2buf to make it big enough for AA, cuesheets, lyrics, user tags, etc
21:26:21lowlightif it's a fixed size it's wasteful to those who don't use those features
21:26:59The-CompilerI have a question: Sometimes i press play too long on my iPod in Rockpaint (to move the pen down), then Rockbox shutdowns. Is there a patch, to say Rockbox "don't shutdown if Rockpaint running"? (Sorry for my bad english)
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21:27:28MikachuThe-Compiler: if you can compile, it's simple enough to change it to select+play
21:27:40Mikachuthat's what i did after viewing three jpgs
21:27:44*lowlight heads to a meeting
21:28:05The-CompilerI can compile but i can't programm(ing?) c
21:28:08lostlogiclowlight: simply that I'd be moving that waste onto the large audio buffer by moving the whole statically sized block of junk there.
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21:28:16lostlogiclowlight: you win, let's do both, separately ;)
21:28:37MikachuThe-Compiler: you only have to change BUTTON_PLAY to (BUTTON_PLAY|BUTTON_SELECT) in a place, tell me when you have compiled rockbox and i'll tell you where to change it
21:29:00lostlogicI can get to stockholm for the 3rd weekend in March for <$500. Is it devcon time yet? :-D
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21:29:13The-CompilerMikachu: Ok, thanks
21:30:01dionoeaThe-Compiler: i never found out how to do that (other than changing the core button driver)
21:30:21amiconnlostlogic, lowlight: Imho metadata on buffer while keeping the track struct array doesn't make much sense
21:30:46MikachuThe-Compiler: firmware/target/arm/ipod/button-target.h change POWEROFF_BUTTON
21:31:00The-CompilerMikachu: Ok
21:31:08The-CompilerLet's do this
21:31:12lostlogicamiconn: OTOH, lowlight's dynamically sized metadata is a nice touch and if I later combine that with tracks-on-buffer it'd be hawt
21:31:17amiconnIf the track structs are on buffer as well, it will solve a nasty issue which we currently need to code around, _and_ it will drecrease ram usage for the standard cases
21:32:03amiconnThat's one reason (without aa, it'd be the main reason) why I want metadata on buffer
21:32:22*linuxstb_ agrees with amiconn
21:33:01amiconnIt's the so-called "norwegian language course problem" (insert your favourity foreign language if you want)
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21:33:27amiconnLots of small tracks will currently use up all metadata slots before the buffer is full
21:33:57lostlogicamiconn: yes. we definitely need both, the question of the moment is: is it worth it for lowlist to do MoB before TSoB
21:34:03amiconnWe had reports of this happening on archos with 2MB ram - and the limit on archos is 16 tracks (!)
21:34:10lostlogicamiconn: holy crap
21:34:59amiconnNow imagine what happens if the metadata slots are exhausted before the buffer is even above the low watermark...
21:35:21lostlogicmy head hurts.
21:35:36The-CompilerMikachu: Now the new line is "#define POWEROFF_BUTTON BUTTON_PLAY|BUTTON_SELECT", right?
21:35:44amiconnNot that this is a likely case, but you never know what kind of ideas users come up with
21:36:44amiconnlostlogic: Btw, the effect of the "norwegian language course problem" on archos is rather harmless
21:37:01amiconnIt doesn't crash, it just repeats the 16th track over and over
21:37:18amiconnA single manual forward skip resolves it
21:37:56lostlogicamiconn: I believe that on swcodec it's supposed to just buffer a new track as soon as one plays, but in actuality there is some bug around the wrap detection currently
21:37:56amiconn(of course the next 16 tracks might trigger the effect again)
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21:43:21The-CompilerWhere can i get "sh-elf-gcc" (for compiling Rockbox)?
21:45:34linuxstb_Run the tools/ script - but you want arm-elf-gcc for ipods.
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21:47:42The-Compilerlinuxstb_: Thx
21:50:23 Quit daurnimator ("Cyas later...")
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22:00:09The-CompilerAre the times of the IRC-statistics ("> GMT?
22:00:51linuxstb_CET - GMT+1
22:02:22linuxstb_Sorry, I thought you meant the IRC logs on - I don't know about that page.
22:03:06Bagderprolly CET or GMT
22:04:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:06:16 Join bluebrother [0] (i=VfuafHzu@rockbox/staff/bluebrother)
22:06:52The-CompilerNow the tools/ script is done, but arm-elf-gcc isn't in my PATH$
22:07:27bluebrotherexport PATH=$PATH:/path/to/arm-elf-installation/bin
22:08:10The-Compilerbluebrother: The same error
22:08:41bluebrotherecho $PATH has the added path in it?
22:09:13The-CompilerOh sorry I don't replace /path/to/arm-elf-installation/bin with the Path :-|
22:10:21The-Compilerbluebrother: And where is this bin?
22:10:33bluebrotherwhere did you install the compiler to?
22:11:23The-Compilerbluebrother: I did install it with the tools/ Script
22:12:15linuxstb_Then it's /usr/local/arm-elf/bin
22:12:26linuxstb_(assuming you didn't edit the script)
22:12:40*bluebrother was too slow looking at the script
22:12:54bluebrotherit doesn't use /usr/local/bin?
22:13:26bluebrotherah, just found the appropriate line.
22:13:37bluebrotherhmm, the script should have told you where it's installing to.
22:14:15The-CompilerNow it works, thx
22:14:41Bagderthe script tells what path to add to PATH
22:14:56 Part Llorean
22:15:06Bagderbut then it is perhaps a bit too easily missed
22:18:04The-CompilerNow I have a problem when I run make:
22:18:36Bagderwhat code are you using? patches applied?
22:19:30The-CompilerBadger: The Daily Build, without pathces
22:20:02Bagderyeah, the daily had that error
22:20:14Bagderget a newer (or older) source pack
22:21:16The-CompilerNow I download the SVN-Soruce
22:21:21The-CompilerSource aaah!
22:21:42 Join kirkunit [0] (
22:21:50linuxstb_The-Compiler: It's easier to get the source with the svn command - you can then update it without having to download a complete new copy.
22:22:25linuxstb_svn co svn:// rockbox
22:23:16The-Compilerlinuxstb_: Ok
22:24:38combrainshey all
22:25:31The-Compilerlinuxstb_: Is this normal, that the svn-command also download the fonts?
22:25:51combrainsim considering re-encoding all of my CD's to flac instead of MP3. Is it worth the effort?
22:26:05*ender` suggests wavpack
22:26:13linuxstb_Re-encode one and test...
22:26:35Bagder"worth the effort" is 100% subjective
22:26:35ender`and to decide if it's worth: encode one CD to both flac/wv and mp3 and listen to both encodes
22:26:58ender`if you can hear the difference, it's probably worth the effort.
22:27:16combrainsim goinjg to test one anyway but I just thought I would see what other people have to say about flac
22:27:33 Quit OgMaciel ("Ex-Chat")
22:27:40massiveHit's better than MP3 if it's worth anything
22:27:43Bagdersince flac is lossless, it will sound better than any bitrate mp3
22:27:53massiveHwell, any lossless is for that matter...
22:28:06linuxstb_I use FLAC for all my CDs, but mainly because I've never got around to evaluating lossy codecs. With FLAC I know for sure I'm not losing any quality.
22:28:10Bagderthe question is just if you can hear the diff and if you want the bigger sizes
22:28:35Bagderand feel like re-encoding all your CDs due to that diff
22:28:40combrainsI'm not fussed about big filesizes although, how big are we talking?
22:28:54linuxstb_FLACs are typically 700-800kbps.
22:29:00Bagderyou'll see when you test-encode ;-)
22:29:04ender`i keep wavpacks on my disk, but put oggs to the iriver
22:29:04massiveHwhole cd ~300-400 megs I think
22:29:56ender`and how much lossless can compress depends a lot on music - i often get bitrates above 1Mbps with maximum compression
22:30:19 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
22:30:53ender`on average i'd say between 800 and 950kbps for me
22:31:24The-CompilerHow I can update the sources with svn?
22:31:37BagderThe-Compiler: "cd sourcedir; svn up"
22:32:27The-CompilerHow long takes to compile rockbox ~ ?
22:32:31 Quit bluey- ("Leaving")
22:32:36BagderThe-Compiler: you'll soon find out
22:32:53Bagderit takes this much time: −−-> <−−−−-
22:33:00ender`it's pretty fast as long as you don't do it on windows
22:33:15zefiewasnt too bad for me on cygwin
22:33:20ender`(then again, nothing compiles fast on windows)
22:33:30zefienothing does ANYTHING fast on windows
22:33:37zefiecept crash
22:33:40Bagderzefie: you only built the bootloader, right?
22:33:55zefieno i built the entire e200 port when playing around
22:34:11ender`windows 2000/xp/2003 is actually very stable - i don't remember the last bsod i've had
22:34:12Bagdercygwin is typically around 3 times slower than native Linux
22:34:29ender`from my tests it's even slower
22:34:29zefieunrelated to anything my microSD card finally came lol
22:34:44ender`i'd say interix is about 3 times slower than colinux, and cygwin is slower than interix
22:34:57zefiei dont trust cygwin
22:35:13zefievmware + debian :)
22:35:23ender`(and i was using make -j3 on cygwin & interix, and only make -j2 in colinux, since colinux doesn't support dual-core)
22:36:08zefieBagder did you see my edits?
22:36:37The-CompilerLinux is the future!
22:36:51Bagderzefie: interesting stuff
22:36:57The-CompilerIt's done!
22:37:11Bagderzefie: I would guess the "7000" thing is just a flavour of the PP5022
22:37:30Bagderand the e200/c200 in the path is probably because they share code
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22:42:13amiconnender`: I'd say that windows is really stable unless there is a buggy driver
22:42:34amiconn(or buggy hardware of course)
22:42:38The-Compilerthe change doesn't work. Rockbox shuts nevertheless down, when I press play...
22:42:41ender`i agree
22:42:53amiconnThe only bsods I encountered on my laptop were due to a buggy driver for an usb-serial adapter
22:44:24ender`we'll see how vista works out though - those tilt bits don't sound too promising
22:45:17 Part The-Compiler ("Konversation terminated!")
22:47:25combrainswell, can't really tell the difference between a flac file at max compression and a 192kbit MP3
22:48:34bluebrotherwell, technically speaking the so-called "windows" isn't windows anymore but NT instead ;-)
22:49:12bluebrotherbut, compared to the originally windows versions (like w98) it's pretty stable
22:49:45bluebrotherstill, the UI has a lot of flaws. Like the lack of a useable shell
22:50:36 Join desowin [0] (n=desowin@unaffiliated/desowin)
22:53:27tchanwindows xp interface still has memory leaks. Try letting your XP box run for days at a time. They usually slow to a crawl. Reboot is the only solution and the box is speedy again.
22:54:11ender`tchan: let me check the uptime of my box at work
22:54:13Soap? Offtopic, but I only reboot on patch tuesdays, with no slowdown inbetween.
22:54:33thegeek_tchan: not in my experience
22:54:41thegeek_I've had uptime of 50 days with no problem
22:54:52thegeek_on my primary desktop that I use every day
22:55:27thegeek_I do use a lot of third party software ( replacement for explorer shell +++ )
22:56:42ender`i know i've had uptime in excess of 50 days on my work box (where i run about 20 instances of GUI programs all the time), but i'm checking if i'm any further than that already
22:56:48tchanokay, I'll stop with the off-topic statements about windows.
22:57:00ender`hm, no, only 31 days this time
22:57:26 Join Wiwie [0] (
22:59:06ender`(after 50 days uptime, i had to see what happens if you try to close HKLM handle in Process Explorer)
22:59:18tchanmy back to rockbox related question is: if this ipod 4G grayscale is stuttering from not enough computing power to decode ogg-vorbis files (-q6 or higher) should I try some other format ?
22:59:46linuxstb_tchan: Do you have a WPS with peakmeters?
22:59:48tchanother than switching to a gigabeat F40 :)
23:00:19linuxstb_Or have any CPU-using options like software EQ enabled?
23:00:25desowintchan: it happens on my mini, but with over -q8, also depends on songs
23:00:48tchanyes, I'm using WPS called "TheMessage"
23:01:03tchanits the only one I found that displays all the tag info I wanted to see.
23:01:18tchanI really didn't need the peak meters
23:01:27tchanand no software EQ is enabled
23:02:54Soappeakmeters alone can cause those problems.
23:04:19tchanactually I think "TheMessage" doesn't have peak meters. It does have a scrolling indicator representing how far along the song is being played
23:04:59linuxstb_That's just the progress bar.
23:07:26tchanwould mpc require less cpu usage than ogg ? Or is it strictly a function of the bit-rates being used ?
23:07:36 Join Mouser_X3 [0] (
23:07:48Soapmusepack is quite efficient to decode, more than ogg.
23:07:57Bagderbut spins up the disk more often...
23:08:55SoapBagder? musepack, not flac.
23:08:56 Join perldiver [0] (
23:09:05*Bagder shuts up
23:09:16desowintchan: only high quality ogg shutters here
23:11:48tchanare there any reports of stuttering problems on the gigabeats ?
23:12:23*amiconn would be very surprised if audio stutters on the gigabeat
23:13:10amiconnThe gigabeat is rather overpowered for just playing audio
23:13:13Bagderpossibly if you play high quality oggs during doom ;-)
23:13:26combrainsim testin some flac stuff atm and there is no stuutering with normal operation
23:13:52amiconnflac is a very efficient codec cpu wise
23:13:58tchancombrains: that would be testing flac on a gigabeat ? or ipod ?
23:14:16linuxstb_It seems an insult to make the gb decode FLACs...
23:14:41linuxstb_"A brain the size of a planet, and I'm here decoding FLACs..."
23:14:50Soapexactly the quote^^
23:15:04Bagderwhat's fascinating is that rockbox on gigabeat has vastly better runtimes than we have on ipods, in spite of their monster cpu
23:15:22tchanI saw those times, and I'm sooooo jealous
23:15:38linuxstb_And monster colour LCD...
23:15:48tchanrub it in...
23:15:58amiconnI think it's because this cpu has better performance to power consumption ratio because it's more modern
23:16:02combrainsBagder, talk to debaunched_sloth if you want to know more about the runtimes - I believe he is the one doing all the optimaisations
23:16:41Bagderno need for that
23:17:15amiconnHmm, and then it's still very possible that we're doing something wrong wrt hardware control on ipods
23:17:25combrainsI just figured you might like to know the secret to our good runtimes ;)
23:17:30Bagderamiconn: I'd say it is likely
23:17:50Nico_Pand i'm waiting for my gigabeat to arrive at home :)
23:17:51Bagdercombrains: I can read the code...
23:18:07Nico_Pit will probably even arrive whan i get back from my ski vacataion
23:18:22Nico_Pat the same time as my gf comes to visit me
23:18:27Nico_Pisn't life great .
23:18:57amiconnOne thing is that we don't do disk poweroff on ipods yet
23:19:10tchanthe ebayers are selling refurbished gigabeat F40's for $150 US, including the shipping to usa addresses
23:19:20amiconnAnd thinking back on how much that helped on the H1x0...
23:20:22Soaphow much did it help?
23:20:26*amiconn wonders how rockbox runtime and of runtime relate on the H10
23:20:38amiconnSoap: Was like 15->20 hours iirc
23:20:52Soapvery significant.
23:21:27amiconnYes. Still not as much as sending the usbotg controller to sleep helped on the H300 :)
23:21:30Soapso is the drive powered but not spinning currently on the ipods?
23:21:44amiconnIt's in standby all the time, drawing a few mA
23:21:51Soapwhat is that power doing? playing cards?
23:23:09amiconnThe drive electronics consumes it, while waiting for a command to arrive
23:24:20pixelmaeating apples... ;)
23:24:28 Join Mouser_X [0] (
23:25:40*barrywardell points amiconn to">
23:25:49barrywardellit's about 60-70% of runtime
23:26:00barrywardellOF runtime
23:26:26barrywardellthe OF gets about 14-16 hours
23:27:23 Join perl|wtf [0] (
23:27:48Arathisbarrywardell: Do you know rockboys standard keys on H10? I messed them up :/
23:29:10 Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs)
23:30:02barrywardellArathis: A=play, b=ff, start=rew, select=none, menu=power
23:30:02 Quit perldiver (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
23:30:28Arathisah, select=none. sad, but that solves my problem (in a way)
23:31:38perl|wtfso...brickmania menu screen is still broken
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23:32:20barrywardellArathis: feel free to propose better keymaps ;)
23:32:23 Quit relaxed (Remote closed the connection)
23:33:01Arathisbarrywardell: the problem is the h10 has one key less than a gameboy because of the needed menu key
23:33:54Arathisbarrywardell: I think sound slowness is caused by missing cpu core support?
23:34:41barrywardelli don't think rockboy has been particularly optimised for the h10 yet
23:34:54barrywardellusing the second core may be one possible way to optimise
23:35:12perldiveryou here?
23:35:26Nico_Pperldiver: yes
23:35:36 Join relaxed [0] (n=relaxed@unaffiliated/relaxed)
23:35:47perldiverdoes the cuesheet patch still conflict with the album art?
23:36:50perldiverand btw, i like the inv approach as well
23:37:00linuxstb_perl|wtf: It doesn't look like brickmania has been adapted for the gigabeat yet - it just seems to compile by chance, and I think uses the bitmaps for the 220x176 screens.
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23:37:28perldiverlinuxstb aha, thanks for the info
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23:37:52linuxstb_Seems midkay forgot you....
23:38:02perldiveri always thought menu screen is more important than paddles though :P
23:38:26Nico_Pperldiver: the patches probably conflict when applied but they are totally separate features so you can make them work together
23:38:37perldiveris he in need for bitmaps by any chance, i can create him plenty
23:38:39Nico_Pyou just need to apply the rejects manually
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23:46:44perldiverNico_P ok let me try
23:48:55perldiverhunk #3 failed at 2980
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23:51:22perldiverhave the gwps-common.c.rej
23:52:12Nico_Pit should just be a matter of copy-pasting the rej to the right place in gwps-common.c
23:52:38perldiveryeah figured
23:52:44perldiverlooking at it
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