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#rockbox log for 2007-02-06

00:00:11funkyselect + play
00:00:15jhMikeSargh, stupid iomega driver bluescreened XP when I plugged the DAP
00:00:22ace214select and menu....
00:00:33brickedlinuxstv: no
00:00:56brickedthis doesnt effect it
00:01:05funkyselect + play while rebooting
00:01:05linuxstbDo what funky said - hold SELECT+PLAY as it's rebooting.
00:01:20brickedthis doesnt effect it
00:01:31linuxstbDo you have the hold switch on?
00:01:55*funky slaps bricked
00:02:08 Nick bricked is now known as file_not_found (i=577f468e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:02:44file_not_foundError! Cant load rockbox.ipod: File not found. Press MENU+SELECT to reboot then SELECTE+PLAY for disk mode
00:03:14file_not_foundok, now in disk mode
00:04:01linuxstbWhich ipod do you have?
00:04:25LinusNiBoom? :-)
00:04:43sam999how do i get to the parent directory
00:04:44file_not_foundok, as I thought, I had unpacked into /media/iPod/rockbox-ipod4gray/
00:04:53funkysam999: cd .. ?
00:04:55file_not_foundlinuxstb: 4g grey
00:04:59LinusNfile_not_found: a common mistake for mac lusers
00:04:59 Join Mouser_X [0] (
00:05:01file_not_foundlinuxN; lol
00:05:16file_not_foundand now rockbox is loaded
00:05:54linuxstbfile_not_found: You may want to read the second note at the top of this page about the 4g greyscale -
00:06:09*bluebrother just ran sloccount on the rockbox sources
00:06:38bluebrotherseems it's worth quite a bit of money ;-)
00:06:41*n1s googles sloccount
00:07:52file_not_foundlinuxstb: thanks, i was going on
00:08:28LloreanWhat's in lisp?
00:08:38*dan_a swaps Rockbox for a large house
00:08:44dionoea^this was lisp
00:09:11LinusNLlorean: the .emacs example files
00:09:38bluebrotherI guess the emacs file
00:09:44*bluebrother was too slow
00:09:47jhMikeSpreglow: there appears to be samples here and there of the wrong amplitude but none missing or added
00:10:30*w1ll14m takes a nother asprine and just found out it's time for a sleep
00:10:36w1ll14msleep well guys! cya later
00:10:47preglowjhMikeS: probably remains of old buffers or something
00:11:05 Join fasmaie [0] (
00:11:23 Part LinusN
00:12:17 Join leftright [0] (
00:13:05 Quit leftright (Client Quit)
00:13:30 Quit rp- ("leaving")
00:14:05DataGhostheh linuxstb
00:14:35DataGhostthat bunch'o'n00bs on the ipl forums who wrote a 'guide' (which is complete crap) and managed to fill over 50 pages with stupid questions ans stupid answers...
00:14:36sam999does it not wrk correctly with ml_pod
00:15:00DataGhostare now blaming ipodloader for the 'bug that the apple os doesnt save its settings anymore'
00:15:11n1ssam999: are you using the database
00:15:18sam999cas the root m3u is just like
00:16:52n1ssam999: yes, that is the way it has to be done if the OF is going to see your music
00:17:25 Join rotator [0] (n=e@rockbox/developer/rotator)
00:17:30sam999should i not use ml_pod
00:18:00linuxstbDataGhost: I'll look forward to the bug-fixing patch from them then.
00:18:07n1ssam999: you can but it will use those garbeled filenames and you could use the database in rockbox to browse by tags
00:18:19DataGhostit took them a week to actually get the kernel compiled
00:18:26DataGhostand another few days to apply 'my patch'
00:18:32DataGhostthat one with the 10 bytes changed
00:18:51sam999n1s how would i set to browse by tags
00:19:08n1ssam999: look in the manual for "Database"
00:19:41n1smeh, just go here:
00:20:40 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
00:20:49 Join Mouser_X [0] (
00:21:46 Quit Rondom ("Ex-Chat")
00:23:17 Quit sam999 ("Anacna "If nobody uses it, there's a reason"")
00:23:56 Quit XavierGr (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:24:25 Join MonkeyTamer [0] (i=cf3e9c55@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:25:05 Nick Everybody is now known as Everybody|away (
00:26:14 Join XavierGr [0] (
00:27:49 Join TrueJournals [0] (
00:29:18LloreanWoo! My commit for the manual looks like it wasn't horrible.
00:29:19 Quit ace214 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:29:30*Llorean is always going to be worried about doing something stupid with line endings from now until forever.
00:30:19 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC")
00:31:23 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
00:34:35 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
00:34:44 Join Mouser_X [0] (
00:35:19amiconnLlorean: Perhaps put everything on one single line? ;)
00:35:43Lloreanamiconn: Ooh, yes, a single line means I can't fail!
00:37:54MonkeyTamerit seems like stability has improved in the last few days
00:39:14 Quit ender` (" I have the heart of a small boy. I keep it in a jar on my desk.")
00:39:25file_not_foundlinuxstb: thanks for the help!
00:39:30file_not_foundlife saver! :)
00:39:32 Quit file_not_found ("awesome!")
00:40:01 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00:42:02MonkeyTamernot a single crash + much improved battery life for me on the ipod color
00:42:39linuxstbAre you using any patches?
00:43:16 Join webguest89 [0] (i=d819beae@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:43:43funkylong since I dont upgrade my rockbox, have been done some improvement regarding to battery consumption ?
00:44:05TrueJournalsfunky: what kind of player do you have?
00:44:14funkyipod 5gen
00:44:15 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
00:44:22webguest89hello, I am a new to Rockbox and I followed the manual to the key for my iPod 30 GB Video, but it doesnt add the bootloader at step 8, plz help
00:44:23MonkeyTamerkoc 8 only
00:44:48linuxstbwebguest89: What is the exact command you are typing?
00:45:05linuxstbAnd what is the error from ipodpatcher?
00:45:09 Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection)
00:45:11funkyTrueJournals: any idea?
00:45:26TrueJournalsfunky: I'm not quite sure
00:45:27MonkeyTamerfor some reason it's taking me like 2 mins per line I enter
00:45:36webguest89directory\ipodpatcher 1 -a bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod and error is model from input file does not match ipod
00:45:38webguest89but ut does
00:46:02TrueJournalsfunky: I don't think so... but I could be wrong... things are being done constantly... plus I really don't watch the iPod port because I have an iRiver H10 :-\
00:46:18funkyoki, thanks anyway
00:47:15funkyTrueJournals: what about y our iriver? is the battery duration so long as with the original firm?
00:47:21funkythey have done any improvement?
00:48:01Lloreanfunky: iPods and the H10 still have poor battery life.
00:48:01dan_awebguest89: What does ipodpatcher −−scan tell you that your ipod is?
00:48:08webguest89number 1
00:48:17TrueJournalsfunky: I'm not really sure because I charge mine all the time. I've heard reports of I think 6 hours max though...
00:48:39dan_awebguest89: I mean, what type of iPod?
00:48:53webguest89Video then in () aka 5g
00:48:54funkyI think devels should focus a bit more in this issue
00:49:18linuxstbwebguest89: What's the _exact_ error message from ipodpatcher?
00:49:28MonkeyTamerthe ipod seems to be getting slightly better for the ipod 4g at least, b/c I haven't needed to disable frequency scaling lately
00:49:54funkyI love rockbox, but I love my ipod's battery, I know it has a limited life cycle, so Im not using rockbox atm for that reason
00:50:10funkybecause I dont want to waste those cycles earlier than normal
00:50:45webguest89hang on let me get to it
00:51:43 Part TrueJournals
00:51:58 Join Thundercloud__ [0] (n=thunderc@
00:52:07webguest892 lines of errors
00:52:55webguest89[ERR] Model name in input file < /-> doesn't match ipod model <ipvd>
00:53:14webguest89[ERR] −−add-bootloader failed.
00:53:34linuxstbSounds like your download failed, and you've saved an HTML error page instead of the bootloader...
00:53:46linuxstbOpen up bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod in a text editor....
00:54:04linuxstbOr just download it again.
00:54:18webguest89will notepad work
00:54:21Lloreanfunky: Do you know how to solve the battery life problem?
00:54:29linuxstbwebguest89: Yes.
00:54:30 Quit MonkeyTamer ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
00:54:30funkyLlorean: no
00:54:44Lloreanfunky: Do you have any idea what devs could 'focus' on to improve it?
00:54:57funkyLlorean: no, sorry I cant help
00:55:24Lloreanfunky: Saying "Devs should focus on this" is all well and good, but there's nothing they can really do. The chip is entirely undocumented, so we have no clue what's causing the problem, and it'll frankly be luck when we figure it out, unless something new comes to light.
00:55:29webguest89i opend it and its all forgien lookind
00:55:34funkybut I read that they prefered to focus on some other issues before this
00:55:50Lloreanfunky: Did a *developer* actually tell you that?
00:55:52funkyLlorean: I know that Im not being constructive at all
00:55:59funkyLlorean: I read it
00:56:06linuxstbwebguest89: Maybe I'm wrong, but it does look like your bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod file is corrupted in some way. Try downloading it again.
00:56:16Lloreanfunky: Yes, but "read it" doesn't mean anything. Who wrote it?
00:56:26 Quit relaxed (Remote closed the connection)
00:56:30webguest89i did, from the rockbox site, and it game me the same error
00:56:40webguest89is there another way to get the same file
00:56:49funkyI read at the page
00:57:05funkyread it*
00:57:13funkylong time ago
00:57:28Lloreanfunky: What "page" is "the page"?
00:57:32linuxstbwebguest89: From this link ?
00:57:32funkyI just think the battery life issue should be prioritary
00:57:55Lloreanfunky: i guarantee you 100% it never said "Battery life is not a priority" on the front page of the site.
00:58:14dan_afunky: There are two issues. One is that developers are doing this for fun, and if they don't find hunting down the battery problem fun, they won't do it. The other issue is that battery life will be helped by doing other things, like making the codecs work faster.
00:58:26Lloreanfunky: But until someone can actually identify _what_ the issue is, there's nothing that can be *made* into a priority. There IS no task to work on.
00:58:51webguest89same error
00:59:02funkydan_a: I know I know, Im not asking anything
00:59:05webguest89this is very frustrating lol
00:59:48webguest89do you know of another way to put rockbox themes on an ipod
00:59:53linuxstbwebguest89: Try this zip file - - and then copy the bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod file from it.
01:00:18 Join relaxed [0] (
01:00:53 Join MonkeyTamer [0] (
01:01:18webguest89same error
01:01:44funkydont get me wrong, Im not critizing anyone
01:01:45dan_afunky: I know that you're not, it is just an explanation of *why* the devs don't seem to focus on the battery problem. It is important, though, nobody denies that
01:03:03funkyI think that I read that devs still hadnt started working on battery issue, <- could that be right ?
01:03:12JdGordongrrr... another article with wrong info about rockbox!
01:03:14funkyI didnt know why, now its a bit clear
01:03:36MonkeyTamerwho wrote it this time?
01:03:48JdGordonsince when do you change languages by moving the .ng into .rockbox/
01:03:54linuxstbwebguest89: I've just installed that bootloader on my 5g, it works fine. So I'm not sure what to suggest. If you type "dir" in command prompt, how big does it say the bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod file is?
01:04:08webguest8960 kb
01:04:12LloreanJdGordon: I've already contacted them about that.
01:04:17 Quit muesli__ ("ich will Khe!!!")
01:04:35LloreanJdGordon: And they're publishing a letter from me next month addressing some of the more significant errors, and I think pointing people at the manual.
01:04:43LloreanOr so they told me.
01:05:21JdGordondid you tell them off about using the jclix theme in the screenshots?
01:05:36LloreanI mentioned that the screenshots require a modified version, I believe
01:05:51LloreanMainly I told them off about the bits saying that Rockbox removes pieces of the original firmware AND that it modifies flash on the iPods.
01:06:02linuxstbrockbox_default on the 5g wasn't good enough for them? :)
01:06:03webguest89linuxstb: is it possible if you can email me the exact steps you took to install it
01:06:17JdGordonwe really do need a Media link on the web site
01:06:42linuxstbI just typed "ipodpatcher −−scan" followed by "ipodpatcher /dev/sdg -a bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod" (I'm on Linux).
01:06:55 Join drpolish [0] (
01:06:58webguest89im on windows
01:07:06drpolishcan anyone help me with mounting a gigabeat S on mac OS X ?
01:07:14drpolishi cant quite find where it is in /dev
01:07:19linuxstbThe commands are identical, but instead of "/dev/sdg", you use a number.
01:07:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:07:51linuxstbdrpolish: That's very off-topic for #rockbox...
01:07:53webguest89did you have the rockbox file already on your ipod
01:08:56webguest89are there any window users here that had trouble adding the bootloader for a 5g video
01:09:01funkysleep time
01:09:02n1swebguest89: you should have it on yopur computer, in the directory where you run ipodpatcher from
01:09:03 Quit funky ("leaving")
01:09:22n1sthe bootloader file that is...
01:10:38MonkeyTamereverything should be in the same directory, and ensure you have the correct bootloader
01:10:54webguest89the bootloader is in the same directory but the problem occurs in the cmd prompt when i try to add it
01:11:17webguest89i have the correct bootloader, but the err says that it doesnt match
01:11:24 Part drpolish
01:11:42MonkeyTamerit should be: ipodpatcher <n> -a bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod
01:11:55webguest89what firmware does your 5g video with rockbox have
01:11:57MonkeyTameris that what you're typing?
01:12:14webguest89i am typing that exactly
01:12:25MonkeyTamerand you're using the latest bootloader as well as ipodpatcher?
01:12:45n1sand no < or > right?
01:12:57webguest89im used the links in the manual for the 2 files
01:13:37MonkeyTamerdid you copy and paste the commands?
01:13:53MonkeyTamerthat way you are certain you're not just making a typo?
01:14:27webguest89you cant paste in cmd prompt
01:14:33MonkeyTameryes you can
01:14:39webguest89but i know ther is no typo
01:14:57webguest89when i paste is does ^V
01:15:05linuxstbEarlier you said you typed "directory\ipodpatcher 1 -a bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod" - what is the "directory\" bit at the start?
01:15:36webguest89C:\rockbox\ipodpatcher 1 -a bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod
01:15:38MonkeyTameryou right-click to paste btw
01:16:02 Quit Thundercloud_ (Connection timed out)
01:16:07n1swebguest89: you should cd rockbox first, then run ipodpatcher
01:16:16linuxstbwebguest89: You should do "cd \rockbox" first, and not type the "C:\rockbox" bit.
01:16:20n1sif you don't have the files in the root...
01:16:46n1sand make sure you have admin rights
01:16:54linuxstbYou probably have multiple copies of bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod on your PC, and your telling ipodpatcher to use the wrong one.
01:17:01MonkeyTamertechnically the way webguest is doing it would work; I just tried it, but make sure it's in the right folder
01:17:06webguest89i have my account as admin
01:17:18 Join printfXh4 [0] (n=pseudo@
01:17:24linuxstbWhere did you save bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod ?
01:17:24LloreanMonkeyTamer: Yes, but it uses bootloader-video.ipod from the folder you run the command from, not where the .exe is located.
01:17:35webguest89but when i run cmd prompt, i choose run as admin, and it needs a password
01:17:43MonkeyTamerthat's ture
01:18:14webguest89is there a default password for Administrator
01:18:52MonkeyTamerum... if you never put one in there ought not to be one
01:18:52linuxstbwebguest48: That's a different problem. I don't think the −−scan option would have worked if you didn't have administrator rights.
01:19:13directhexthere's no password for Administrator on XP Home
01:19:15 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
01:19:20linuxstbwebguest48: Which directory have you been saving the bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod file to?
01:19:21 Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
01:19:30 Join cynicalliberal [0] (
01:19:42webguest89to C:\rockbox
01:20:05Lloreandirecthex: By default there's not.
01:20:10n1sdo "cd rockbox" before running ipodpatcher then
01:20:20linuxstbOr "cd \rockbox"
01:20:47n1sand as linuxstb said bfore skip the rockbox\ part in the beginning of the command you typed
01:21:02directhexLlorean, does he sound like he's gone to the trouble of fiddling with hidden accounts?
01:21:16webguest89ok, something different happened
01:21:25 Quit wooo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:21:44webguest89YES!!!!!!!!!, it loaded to rockbox
01:21:48 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Connection timed out)
01:21:55JdGordonLlorean: what do yyou think abot my quick addition to ArticlesAboutRockbox? (just need to get Bagder to link to it on the main page now)
01:22:01Lloreandirecthex: I don't like to make assumptions. I've seen OEM computers with admin passwords set and a default User account logging in.
01:22:10webguest89ok. now how do i get my songs to show
01:22:22n1sread the manual
01:22:28 Part [toffe]
01:22:33n1sespecially about the database
01:22:35webguest89thank you all very much
01:22:45linuxstbThe FAQ may also give you some quick answers:
01:23:02 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
01:23:11 Join Mouser_X [0] (
01:23:11*n1s wishes the rbutil got bootloader installing functionality someday...
01:23:36linuxstbn1s: The source is there...
01:24:10n1swith my programming skills combined with my lack of ipods, i'd say that is a task for someone else ;-)
01:25:00LloreanJdGordon: I like my version better. :-P
01:25:14n1sanyway, gnight
01:25:16 Part n1s
01:25:29webguest89btw, if any1 wants to take the challenge, make a matrix green coded theme for the ipod
01:25:46linuxstbwebguest89: Now you've installed Rockbox, nothing's stopping you...
01:26:09webguest89lol, i think ill get familiar with it first be4 i tweak it
01:26:10MonkeyTamerexcept perhaps drag...
01:27:03JdGordonLlorean: youve done one already?
01:27:11LloreanJdGordon: Yeah
01:27:18 Quit shnee_ (Connection timed out)
01:27:20 Join shnee_ [0] (
01:27:32JdGordonbah, where?
01:27:46LloreanJdGordon: Just refresh the page. I edited yours.
01:28:42JdGordonok, yeah, thats better
01:28:49webguest89it takes forever to upload an entire library of music
01:29:53MonkeyTamerit certainly can; luckily it's not something that needs to be done often
01:30:14 Join TerrorByte [0] (i=4889ede5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:30:43 Quit efyx ("Quitte")
01:30:48TerrorByteI was wondering about something.
01:31:24TerrorByte"PortalPlayer users (ipods, iriver H10) should apply the kernel_on_cop_6.diff patch from FS #5755 which enables mpegplayer to run the video decoding/display thread on the second CPU core, greatly increasing the framerate."
01:31:49MonkeyTamerwhat about it?
01:31:56TerrorByteIt says that on MpegPlayer info page.
01:32:28TerrorByteIs that little bit for the current MpegPlayer or before when it ran .m2v files?
01:32:32TerrorByteOr does it not make a difference?
01:32:46LloreanIt's for the current one
01:32:51LloreanExcept it's Kernel_on_cop_8.diff now
01:34:00TerrorByteWhy isn't it included in the build?
01:34:10linuxstbRead that patch tracker page.
01:34:25TerrorByteI am.
01:34:25linuxstbIt's close to being included, but isn't 100% reliable.
01:34:28TerrorByteDidn't see anything.
01:34:31TerrorByteOr probably didn't understand.
01:34:34TerrorByteI see.
01:34:40TerrorByteThat's so awesome.
01:34:43linuxstbe.g. it breaks recording.
01:34:53TerrorByteI see.
01:34:56JdGordonLlorean: haha, i just realised all but the link on that article is outdated
01:35:07dan_aIt will be included when including it is better than not including it ;)
01:35:11TerrorByte*cough* Include it soon *cough*
01:35:19MonkeyTamerYou can patch it manually with cygwin or vmware
01:35:31LloreanTerrorByte: When it's ready, it'll be included.
01:35:33MonkeyTamerif you want it now rather than later that is
01:35:39LloreanTerrorByte: Most patches aren't done, which is why they're still patches.
01:35:59LloreanThis one's even a patch written by a core dev, but since it's such a major thing, we're being careful with it
01:36:15TerrorByteI see.
01:36:34TerrorByteAlso, I can't patch it, I've heard it's a very long process to set up and I should wait for it to be included.
01:37:11linuxstbTerrorByte: Try one of the unofficial builds. I think at least senab includes it.
01:37:21TerrorByteWhere can I find those?
01:37:30linuxstbThe "unofficial builds" forum...
01:37:57linuxstbSorry "unsupported builds".
01:38:03TerrorByteFound it.
01:38:06MonkeyTamersenab or pijulius should be fine, but senab's is more recent
01:38:19TerrorByteHave any of you guys tried it?
01:38:40MonkeyTamerI've used pijulius's before; they're usually fine
01:38:53TerrorByteCan't find one for the H10.
01:38:58MonkeyTamerno guarantee... they are unsupported after all
01:39:22TerrorByteI see.
01:39:33MonkeyTameri'm unsure about the H10
01:39:34linuxstbMaybe look at
01:39:54 Quit relaxed ("mplayer -cache 512 -playlist")
01:39:56MonkeyTamermisticriver has at least a few for the irivers
01:40:01linuxstbThe unofficial iriver builds seem to all be at misticriver, the ipod builds on the Rockbox forums.
01:40:17 Join jba [0] (i=cb30655b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:40:27jbahey gang
01:40:37linuxstbAnd everyone and their dog has an unofficial ipod build...
01:40:46jbai finally got round to registering my wikiname so I can upload my X30 batter_bench
01:40:58jbadoes someone miind enabling me? My wikiname is JohnBouAntoun
01:41:03MonkeyTamerhahaha, true is that
01:41:28MonkeyTamerI actually had started making my own ipod build for the experience
01:41:36jbacan i get an unofficial ipod build for my gigabeat x30?
01:41:38*jba ducks
01:41:49*linuxstb asks his dog
01:42:10*MonkeyTamer grabs the nintendo gun
01:42:17*jba asks his bird which ipod build it's running (no dog here)
01:42:17Lloreanlinuxstb: One of my cats is about to start rolling his own iPod build, actually.
01:42:25 Join relaxed [0] (n=relaxed@unaffiliated/relaxed)
01:42:42directhexjba, if you're well behaved, you can have my gigabeat build
01:42:56MonkeyTamermake sure your cat reads the wiki
01:43:07jbadirecthex: i don't know you, so not sure if you're joking
01:43:13LloreanMy cat wrote the IpodFAQ. I was just covering for him.
01:43:15TerrorByteWhere exactly are the Rockbox builds on
01:43:27jbahey anyone seens wibbix around these days? he sorta dissappeared after christmas
01:44:06TerrorByteAnyone know?
01:44:37webguest89ok, i downloaded a theme, and my web browser kicked screwed up, so if you can read this, plz tell me how to put the theme on rockbox, or give me the link for it
01:44:43TerrorByteThank you.
01:44:47jbaso do i need to ask someone's dog to allow me to upload my battery bench?
01:45:15MonkeyTamer but I don't see any for the H10
01:46:59TerrorByteOh great.
01:47:05MonkeyTamerI guess that's up to the dog
01:47:10TerrorByteWell all I can hope for is that the patch is included in the near future I guess....
01:47:24MonkeyTamervmware isn't that hard
01:47:36MonkeyTamerit's a day job though, i'll concede that
01:48:32MonkeyTamerthe Wiki has great information, and once you've downloaded everything, it doesn't take too much to start to learn
01:49:07dan_aTerrorByte: It's (probably) not going to be this week... but I've been slowly working on it since August and I want to get it into SVN soon
01:49:25jbahas anyone updated the vmware image to include the svn client
01:49:36scorchejba: i did that quite a while ago
01:49:55TerrorBytedan_a: Thank you very much :)
01:49:57jbascorche: cool dude, just curious
01:50:01scorcheand make and a few other goodies
01:50:02TerrorByteI don't have much time at all for setting up vmware.
01:50:05TerrorBytePerhaps on the weekend.
01:50:09jbascorche: how goes mate?
01:50:12TerrorByteI have to leave for something in 10 minutes.
01:50:14jbawhat other goodies?
01:50:31TerrorByteThanks for the help.
01:50:33scorchejust general updates
01:50:50MonkeyTamertry it on the weekend; it's a rewarding expereince
01:50:54jbahmm, i just apt-get installed subversion on my setup
01:51:03TerrorByteI eagerly await any new information on MpegPlugin patch.
01:51:06jbahey scorche, so can you help me out with the wiki?
01:51:11TerrorByteYeah I will MonkeyTamer.
01:51:24scorchein a sec...a bit busy
01:51:31jbaroger dodger
01:51:36*TerrorByte has left.
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01:55:10scorchejba: done
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01:58:28JdGordondoes anyone know a linux program that can add and remove files from an iso without needing to recreate it?
01:59:27LloreanJdGordon: Can you mount an ISO and write to it?
01:59:32*Llorean doesn't know much about this.
01:59:41jbascorche: tah mate
01:59:43jbaI'm off to lunch now
01:59:43JdGordoni know you can mount it, but i assume only ro?
01:59:48LloreanNo clue here.
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02:00:14jbaJdGordon: i thought you could loopback it in write mode?
02:00:36dan_aI don't think it's possible to add and remove files from an ISO without recreating it (anything that seems to do that is hiding that they are recreating it)
02:00:47 Join TrueJournals [0] (
02:00:53Lloreandan_a: Well, I'd assumed that he meant "without having to manually go through the steps of recreating it"
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02:01:14dan_aYou could use a union mount, depending on what you're trying to acheive
02:02:12JdGordonbah, ok, ill just use my windows program to remake it :(
02:02:17JdGordonstupid bootcd
02:04:05MonkeyTamergah... indeterminate forms and l'Hospital's rule...
02:04:20DwylocI don't know if its just me but it looks like the USB wall charger detection may have broken USB chargeing under windows on the ipod nano 1G
02:04:56MonkeyTamerare you connecting it when it's off?
02:05:05LloreanDwyloc: Broken how?
02:05:05Dwylocknow when i hold down the menu button and connect my ipod i get windows detectiong an unknown USB device
02:05:52MonkeyTamerthat's happened before to me too
02:05:58MonkeyTamerbut only when the ipod was off...
02:06:00LloreanDwyloc: Mine doesn't
02:06:00Dwylocbut I still get the normal charging icon in the file view of rockbox so it may still charge as normal
02:06:43Dwylocand rebooting into disk mode still works fine if i don't hold down the menu button
02:06:54LloreanDwyloc: I have a Nano 1G, and don't get the behaviour you describe
02:09:31MonkeyTamerinteresting, it does that to me too on a 4g color
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02:09:40MonkeyTamerit still works
02:09:50MonkeyTamerit just states that the USB device is not recognized
02:09:54Dwylocstrange I am running Windows XP pro with SP2 and my previous CVS buiild was not showing this problem. I am useing a svn biuld from 5 Feb 01:18
02:10:28Dwylocyes thats what I am seeing as well
02:11:03MonkeyTamerIt doesn't seem to affect anything though.
02:11:19Dwylocpreviously it did not show up in device manager when chargeing.
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02:11:59MonkeyTameris it supposed to show up as a disk when not in the recovery mode?
02:12:08MonkeyTamerI really don't know
02:14:11Dwylocyes but its a bit worrying as the last time I plugged in a usb device and windows did not recognise and did not prompt for driver installation the usb device had been damaged.
02:14:42MonkeyTamerno, there's no issue; try putting the ipod into recovery mode, and see if it recognizes it
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02:16:56Dwylocas i said it still work boots into recovery mode and works ok. I am just going to boot into apples os and check that happens when I plugin the ipod in device manager.
02:17:54MonkeyTamerif it works, then it shouldn't affect the USB; but there may be a small bug in which Windows doesn't actively recognize the ipod as a disk with the firmware loaded
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02:18:51MonkeyTamerthat's assuming that it is supposed to recognize it as such, but I haven't actually made active use of that feature, so I'm not sure
02:19:41dewdudemine also states USB Device Not Recgonized when i plug it up to charge rather than for disk
02:20:15MonkeyTamerwhat's your make?
02:20:32MonkeyTamerer... it's not a car... model
02:20:40dewdudeipod 5.5 30gb
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02:21:20MonkeyTamerwell, I guess it may affect all models
02:21:27dewdudei'm running the usb button my default behavior when i plug the ipod up to USB is to charge.
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02:21:35MonkeyTamerexcept Llorean
02:21:46LloreanMonkeyTamer: Well, my build is from yesterday.
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02:22:00MonkeyTamermine is from 2 days ago I think
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02:22:31MonkeyTamerLlorean, do you have KoC8?
02:22:57LloreanPlease, if you're reporting problems, be doing so with an unmodified build.
02:23:01MonkeyTamerI'm using it, so mine is different
02:23:01Dwylocok it looks like it still shows up as a USB mass Storage Device when charging under apple OS after unmounting my nano from itunes and going into charging mode with music playback support.
02:23:08LloreanThat means *no* patches, and a recent one.
02:23:25LloreanThere haven't been changes to USB handling since Linuxstb's commit yesterday, and mine's from after that.
02:23:34linuxstbDwyloc: So there's no difference between Rockbox and AppleOS?
02:23:38MonkeyTamerI am not reporting any; it isn't afflicting me
02:23:47MonkeyTamerin a bad way that is
02:24:07LloreanMonkeyTamer: Yeah, but you said it's doing the "Not recognized" thing
02:24:07DwylocI am testing with a stock svn build from the rockbox website
02:24:15LloreanYou're corroborating his report, despite using a modified version.
02:25:01MonkeyTameroops.. sorry about that; I don't want to give the wrong message
02:26:10LloreanAlright, now have the most recent build on my Nano.
02:26:34LloreanWindows does nothing when I plug it in while holding menu
02:26:54MonkeyTamerif it is a problem, it takes a good minute to do so
02:27:26 Quit entheh ("^~")
02:27:35Lloreanlinuxstb: Ah, I think I have an inkling of the problem.
02:27:48DwylocSadly as its getting late and I have work in the morning I will have to go to bed shortly but I am just going to try reverting to an older build and see what happens.
02:27:57Lloreanlinuxstb: If I release menu relatively quickly after the Charging icon shows up, my iPod shortly reboots into disk mode.
02:28:05LloreanDwyloc: I can reproduce it now
02:28:17Lloreanlinuxstb: If I hold Menu a bit longer, I get this unknown device.
02:28:39Lloreanlinuxstb: It looks like somehow it's wanting to not stay 'charging' after you release Menu
02:29:34dewdudeit displays unknown device with the usb button press patch
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02:29:40dewdudei just ignored it
02:30:01dewdudebut i also noticed it's charging a lot slower
02:30:12linuxstbLlorean: Yes, I'm getting the same on my 5g with Linux....
02:30:28linuxstbBut time for bed. I'll look forward to seeing a patch committed to SVN overnight ;)
02:30:51Drkepiloguehey, i am here to report a bug where i can instantly crash my ipod photo...
02:31:03Drkepiloguei play a song, hold menu, change display to database
02:31:10*linuxstb sleeps
02:31:12Drkepiloguego back to wps, and it freezes
02:31:54Drkepiloguewhen i push select button
02:32:09LloreanDrkepilogue: File a bug report
02:32:50LloreanWell, most of the devs are asleep, and nobody's just going to snap their fingers and fix it.
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02:32:58LloreanThat's why there's a location for bug reports.
02:33:05Drkepiloguei know, i just want to start here
02:33:19LloreanWell you seemed dubious when I suggested you file one.
02:33:23linuxstbI've just done exactly that on my photo and it works fine...
02:34:59Drkepiloguewell, i just install lastest CVS and it still crashes
02:35:02MonkeyTamerI know mine has the koc, but i don't have that issue either
02:35:22DwylocOK reverting to the last build i used from 31/1/07 results in to device showing up in device manager when holding down menu to charge
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02:36:04Dwylocsorry that should reed no device
02:37:02Dwylocits 1:30am in the morning and I have to be in work by 9am and I live about an hours drives drive from work so I think its time for bed :-)
02:37:52Dwylocbut I can test some more tomorrow if its of any help.
02:38:27linuxstbCan you fix it?
02:38:38linuxstb(a bigger help..) ;)
02:39:07Dwylocsadly not I have not coded in about 10 years
02:39:45Dwylocand that was under DOS at uni :-)
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02:45:06MonkeyTamerI picked the wrong major to be of coding importance...
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03:07:42jbamarkun: hey dude
03:07:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:07:51jbai just uploaded my battery_bench
03:08:45jbawould love some pointers on how to use the table for my own x30 build
03:09:10Llorean15 hours isn't bad, is it?
03:10:21jbait spent a third of it on 0 thoug
03:10:26jbathat's the annoying thing
03:10:28Soapwho knows? nobody posts battery runtime tests for their player in original firmware.
03:10:51jbacausewhen battery gets below 10 it doesn't persist settings on shut down
03:11:02SoapIs person A's battery in better shape than person B? Or is Build C more battery efficient than Build D?
03:11:36LloreanSoap: Yeah, proper tests should include a retail-OS benchmark too, with the same playlist in the same order, but that's never going to happen.
03:11:43jbai just want my x30 to not say batter is low till the current gets cclose to being too low
03:11:51jbacause that voltage seemes to fluctuate for ages
03:12:17jbaSoap: the retail os has to decrypt (i think 3-des) the files from sat format
03:12:22jbamain reason i dumped the shite
03:12:36Soapjba: that's fine - but the main firmware doesn't change.
03:12:41jbahey is there viewvc front end to th svn system?
03:12:54Soaptesting the mainfirmware allows us to see your battery condition, and properly compare tests by two people.
03:13:01jbaor something similar
03:13:33dewdudeyeah, it's a damn shame no two lithium batteries are ever exactly alike,
03:13:36SoapIf people aren't going to perform a benchmark test in the stock firmware to give a basis for comparison - they at least should do a consistant test against a static build.
03:13:36jbaif you ask me you already have to go through too many steps to submit a battery bench as is, you don't want to make it any harder
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03:14:06SoapI'd rather there be 1/10th the number of battery bench tests - if those 10% were useful.
03:14:52jbaso why don't you make a zip file containing the default config.cfg, music-test folder and current playlist to test
03:15:05jbathat way someone can just unzip the bastard over their root, reboot and run the test
03:15:08Soapbecause that doesn't solve the problem.
03:15:25Soapthe problem is battery condition.
03:16:00Soapand that can only be factored out by comparing current (ever changing) builds to a benchmark build.
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03:16:44SoapBe that benchmark build the retail firmware (which everyone has) or some other agreed upon build - like 2007-01-01's daily (assuming everyone would agree to test with that)
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03:16:56dewdudei would only look at data from 3 or 4 ipods as a real rough never know what exact kind of battery is in there...and how each user has treated it
03:17:06jbawell on the gigabeat it's trivial to revert to original build
03:17:19jbabut not so trivial to encrypt music and move it back onto the player
03:17:29jbai don't want to install the cruddy gigacrap room
03:17:30SoapThen we could say "SVN 12199 delivers 102% of the battery life of _X_) - not "Dude! I got 19 hours!"
03:17:47MonkeyTamer..I'm having a hard time connecting to debian for getting the files... any ideas?
03:17:59jbaSoap: i don't think the gigabeat users are interested in number of hours, more more intersted in the discharge curve right now
03:18:02MonkeyTamerfirst time I have had this issue
03:18:40Soapjba - The difficulty of using the Gigabeat stock firmware sounds legit - then the Gigabeat community should decide on a "benchmark" build, and arbitrary, yet consistant, build all new builds will be measured against.
03:19:13Soapjba - discharge curve is _strongly_ affected by individual battery conditions - even room temp.
03:19:31jbaproblem is once sound started working the gigabeat community sorta thinned out
03:19:47jbaaye markun
03:20:06SoapI totally grok that - doesn't mean you can't be the leader. Doesn't mean you can't lead by example.
03:20:52jbaif i had the time right now, i'd actually be cutting code, like fixing sloth's lcd disable code
03:21:13jbawhich seems to capture and suspend any button clicks till the backlight has faded in fully
03:21:22SoapRunning a battery bench doesn't take any attention - only a willingness to part with your player for a day or two.
03:21:48jbayeah it's the organising of the benchmark build, and config settings that takes time
03:21:55LloreanSoap: It requires some attention at the end with the retail firmware.
03:22:16LloreanSoap: Though you can use a line in on a PC, and just record the output from the player and see where the silence starts, if you've got HD space.
03:22:22SoapLlorean: I know retail lasts ~22 hours - I plug a
03:23:00Soapexactly - using a splitter so you can plug in your headphones and put a load on the amp - and setting up a timed recording start so you don't burn 22 hours of recording, when 2 will do.
03:23:03JdGordonsorry OT, but does anyone have a windows xp home cd?
03:26:00MonkeyTamerfixed my problem, but does anyone else sometimes have issues with connecting to their debian user account? sometimes I just can't get on, unless fully reboot the debian image
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03:27:07LloreanMonkeyTamer: Are you using the newest VMWare?
03:27:26LloreanI had a problem with a slightly older version, but I never have it any more.
03:27:39MonkeyTamerhmm, when was it last updated?
03:28:05MonkeyTamerI think I downloaded the debian image a week ago
03:28:30LloreanI meant the VMWare player, not the debian image
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03:29:06MonkeyTamerpardon me; multitasking with calculus
03:29:12MonkeyTamerI'll go and download a new copy
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03:33:42Big_Maclater on I am going to need some help with retrieving the source
03:33:49Big_Machave to finish algebra 2 first
03:34:20MonkeyTameralgebra 2... those were the days
03:35:14Big_Macheh I hate it
03:35:37MonkeyTamerwhat material is being covered?
03:35:53Big_MacI have alg 2, precalc and geometry this year
03:36:13Big_MacUhh right now we are doing synthetic division and solving polynomials
03:36:51MonkeyTamercould be worse... could be trig
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03:37:38Big_MacEh I have seen the material it is not that hard I guess, I mean they are all easy right now I just hate how all of it is busy wor
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03:38:05MonkeyTamerthat's the life of math... never particularly difficult, just constant busy work
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03:41:18MonkeyTamerOn a positive note however, it is work like math that gives us all the more reason to use our DAPs, and through Rockbox at that
03:42:18jbadude youre starting to sound like the opening credits to that crap show numbers
03:42:25jbahow did that thing even make it into a second season?
03:43:06MonkeyTamerpeople liked it
03:43:12MonkeyTamermy dad seemed to like it
03:43:30MonkeyTamerit was ok... not as bad as some of the other stuff out there
03:43:39MonkeyTamerbut uninteresting to me, valid
03:43:51jhMikeSJdGordon: Now I have recording icons stuck in the statusbar all the time! I took recscreen_on state variable out of global_settings in the menu stuff to stop that. :)
03:44:26JdGordonyour having the same problem barry was having yesterday?
03:44:53JdGordonrecscreen_on probably shouldnt be in global_settings anyway
03:45:13jhMikeSJdGordon: Yeah, it's one that added a fix for when I adapted the recording menus.
03:47:21jhMikeSJdGordon: I never did bother to figure why it wasn't an issue before though. :\
03:51:01JdGordonlunch time... bbl
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03:57:08TerrorByteWell, I figure I'll set up VMware to apply patches myself.
03:57:09TerrorByteHave some time right now to get started :)
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03:58:13TerrorByteOkay I assume I first need to download VMplayer.
03:58:18TerrorByteVMware Player*
03:58:38MonkeyTamerthen the debian image
03:58:59MonkeyTameryou'll need either 7-zip or winrar to extract the image
04:00:07MonkeyTameralso, ensure your computer is configured for connecting to networked computers, so that you will be able to connect to your account, and access the source files
04:00:37MonkeyTamerthis can be done by verifying that workstation and the computer browser services are not disabled
04:01:15TerrorByteI'm lost lol.
04:01:30TerrorByteWhy do I need all that?
04:01:33MonkeyTamersorry about that
04:01:44MonkeyTamerif you dont mess with your computer
04:01:47MonkeyTamerthen no worries
04:02:19TerrorByteOkay I'm still downloading VMware Player 1.03
04:02:20MonkeyTamerthose are just the services required to basically obtain your build after you make it
04:02:22TerrorByteWhat should I do next?
04:02:28MonkeyTamerdownload the image
04:02:52MonkeyTamerit'll take a while; it's slightly over 200mb, and 2GB extracted
04:03:21MonkeyTameryou have enough space right?
04:04:36TerrorByte2 GB extracted?
04:04:46TerrorByteAnd where do I get the image?
04:04:55MonkeyTamerthere should be three links
04:05:02MonkeyTameron the wiki
04:05:07SoapLlorean: I hate to say it - but it looks like KoCOP#8 is abou to lose this latest battery bench. Which means I need to run the whole series of them again for verification.
04:05:12MonkeyTamerone sec
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04:05:55MonkeyTamerchoose a link
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04:06:23LloreanSoap: Someone did say it had a negative effect on their battery life.
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04:07:04LloreanSoap: KoC6 improved mine though, but only by 5%. I assumed that it was a large enough improvement but didn't run multiple tests, so it could still be within a reasonable margin of error to suggest that they just have equivalent battery lives.
04:07:14Big_MacDoes KOCOP handle ogg files on the second core?
04:07:29 Quit g33 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:07:32LloreanBig_Mac: It handles all decoding on the second core.
04:07:49Big_MacWell flac is the same speed
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04:07:57SoapLlorean: It's going to be slim IF it loses by 5%.
04:08:06Big_Maclike when I skip a song on flac it pauses for like 2-3 seconds
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04:08:19LloreanBig_Mac: That's just disk spinup, and has nothing to do with decode speed
04:08:20Big_Macmp3s it is like .5-1
04:08:25TerrorByteSorry, got disconnected.
04:08:30Big_MacAh ok
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04:10:38MonkeyTamerTerrorByte: do you have an unzipping program that can handle .7z?
04:10:50TerrorByteYes yes.
04:10:53TerrorByteI'm downloading it now :)
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04:11:21TerrorByteI think I'll have to get back to this tomorrow.
04:11:29TerrorByteI'll install VMware Player and extract the image.
04:11:33 Quit Drkepilogue (Client Quit)
04:11:33MonkeyTamerit's a long download
04:11:43Soapwell I'll be a monkey's uncle.
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04:11:46SoapIt's a tie
04:11:58TerrorByteIt is.
04:12:18SoapI've never seen _that_ death before, though. iPod restarted it self on low battery and died during boot.
04:12:19MonkeyTamerextract the image, put it into a folder, and basically you locate the image with vmware to run
04:13:10MonkeyTamerwhat was the test benchmarked with?
04:13:35SoapMonkeyTamer: ? I don't follow.
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04:13:45MonkeyTamerI mean what model
04:13:53SoapIpod 5th gen
04:14:10TerrorByteHey, is it possible to brick an H10?
04:14:14MonkeyTamerwell, sounds good if it's a tie
04:14:15TerrorByteHas anyone ever done it accidentally?
04:14:55MonkeyTamerprobably good to check with misticriver
04:15:02MonkeyTamerI have no idea
04:15:14LloreanTerrorByte: If you replace the iRiver bootloader (the .rom file) then yes, probably
04:15:39SoapI'll look at the battery bench when it wakes back up, but I was seeing more battery bar than on my previous test.
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04:17:37TerrorByteWow, I can actually brick my H10?
04:18:03TerrorByteAs in render it totally useless?
04:18:13MonkeyTamerit's possible, yes
04:18:27MonkeyTamerit depends on your precautions
04:20:17MonkeyTamerI would imagine the manual would mention some precautions, but as Llorean noted that replacing the .rom file would be very risky
04:20:19LloreanTerrorByte: If you're silly and do things other than those in the instructions, yes.
04:20:32SoapLlorean: I take much of it back - 5% gain with KoCOP - I based by numbers off the wrong start time for one of the tests.
04:21:32TerrorByteWell I'll get back to this tomorrow and build rockbox with the patch...
04:21:35SoapThat's really embarasing, I need to be more careful with the numbers.
04:21:35TerrorByteShould be off now.
04:21:54MonkeyTamergood luck
04:22:07LloreanSoap: So really, just about the same results I got?
04:22:08TerrorByteIf I have time tomorrow :P
04:22:17*TerrorByte has left.
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04:22:54SoapLlorean: very much so - 4.5%
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04:25:34Soapnext test is with the 64MB buffer. See if I can't crack the 12 hour mark.
04:26:49LloreanIt'd be nice if you did.
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04:29:26SoapThen to test the stock firmware again - I'm curious where it comes in - because I got the exact same runtime I had almost five months ago - I would have expected the improvem memcopy code to have produced better runtimes - I'm guessing the reason I don't see longer times is a function of a five month older battery.
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04:32:08LloreanAren't li-ion supposed to lose something like a whole 5%/month?
04:32:16LloreanI seem to recall the capacity loss on them was pretty horrendous
04:33:13LloreanHm, no, approximately 20% per year this says
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04:33:35tekAnybody on?
04:33:44LloreanOften, yes
04:34:22tekwhere can I find the Rockbox ipod video source?
04:34:42LloreanIt's available as a tarball on the builds page, or you can get it from SVN
04:35:31tekI didnt see the source link at the end
04:35:49tekany documentation available to compile this for the ipod?
04:36:29LloreanSee the SimpleGuideToCompiling page in the wiki
04:36:37Lloreanit's not perfect, but it's what's there right now
04:37:13tekcool thanks for the help...
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04:38:51Soapwell, Llorean, I've been wearing it outdoors in sub-freezing temps the last three months - i think the cold is good for battery preservation. ;)
04:39:01LloreanSoap: According to wikipedia it is.
04:39:21tekSweet nice little developer section
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04:51:00Big_Macany songbird users?
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04:57:55TwilightInZeroHi there.
04:58:51TwilightInZeroUh... I finished my theme and I'd like to put it in the wiki... May I have write privleges?
04:59:10midkaysure, what's your username?
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05:00:22midkaythere, you should have write access.
05:00:48TwilightInZeroThank you very much. Will the wiki have a place for me to upload the zip file, or will I need to put it on my own space?
05:01:31midkayno problem, and you upload it directly to the wiki.
05:01:52TwilightInZeroAlrighty then. I'll keep this open in case I run into problems.
05:02:14midkaysure thing. you know where the upload guide is, right? (WpsGallery)
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05:21:17Tim_Mitchellis there info on how much faster ipod rockbox is with the cop 8 vs no coprocessor? the patch page and the forums didn't have much on the improvement it has made save that framerates for video are better
05:22:06SoapI honestly didn't test video w/o the patch - but I _believe_ you should see close to 100% improvement with the patch on the ipods.
05:22:06LloreanTim_Mitchell: There's a small battery life improvement, and some people have subjectively said the menus are better.
05:23:19Tim_MitchellI am mostly concerned with ogg playback
05:24:05LloreanWell it should be much more consistent.
05:24:08Tim_MitchellI currently have an H140 which works great but I rarely use it since it isn't pocket size
05:25:40Tim_Mitchellmy understanding is that the ipod is not as fast as my iriver, yes?
05:26:32Soapare we talking 100M speed or marathon?
05:27:08SoapThey both playback ogg in realtime - I'm not sure what the question is.
05:27:13LloreanTim_Mitchell: The iRiver is 120mhz. The iPod is 2 x 75mhz.
05:27:36LloreanWith the coprocessor support, once it's completely working right, the iPod should have no problems with Ogg
05:27:47Tim_MitchellI don't have an ipod yet - it was my understanding that ogg sometimes skipped and paused on the ipod -
05:28:02Tim_Mitchellit hasn't been a problem on the H140
05:28:24SoapI have no problems with Q6 and Q7 on my iPod (I don't think I have ever encoded "fatter" than Q7)
05:28:45LloreanTim_Mitchell: Most formats on the iPod have issues with the peakmeter showing.
05:29:13Tim_Mitchellthe peakmeter is optional though, right?
05:29:13LloreanAs well, above Q8 vorbis, on some iPods (5G), there may be skips at this time, without the patch
05:29:18LloreanYes, it's optional
05:29:46Tim_MitchellI have a lot of Q10 ...
05:30:12LloreanWell, I'm having a hard time whether you're talking about with or without the patch.
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05:30:47carapalidhi, anyone in here tonight? i am new...
05:30:51Tim_Mitchellmy iriver is a very old build, before the patch existed and it's worked great
05:31:09LloreanTim_Mitchell: The patch doesn't affect the iRiver.
05:31:13Tim_MitchellI am concerned with whether the ipod will be as good (with or without the patch)
05:31:13LloreanIt's a completely different situation.
05:31:17Soapwhy not just go FLAC?
05:31:34carapalidhoping to ask a question to any of you that can give me a hand please?
05:31:45LloreanSoap: FLAC can still be twice the size of even Q10.
05:31:52Tim_Mitchellnot enough space for my music - I regret using Q10 for the same reason
05:32:04LloreanBut really, above Q8 you don't get much.
05:32:24Tim_Mitchellyeah I did ABX and thought I heard a difference so I just went with it
05:32:26carapaliddoes anyone here use an ipod nano 1st generation with rockbox?
05:32:35SoapLlorean: I know that - I was being a bit sarcastic. Q10 is huge for lossless, and I've yet to meet the one soul who can ABX Q10 and Q8.
05:32:35Lloreancarapalid: Why don't you ask your actual question
05:32:48carapalidi just did. sorry i was typing.
05:33:12Tim_Mitchell(I do a lot of music transcribing so I decided just to waste disk space, at the time)
05:33:21Lloreancarapalid: I assumed you had a question beyond that, though.
05:33:37carapalidi was reading about rockbox firms and was wondering if anyone here know which build i should go with... the daily or the current? on a nano 1st generation
05:33:40LloreanTim_Mitchell: If you want one with consistent performance now, look into the Gigabeat rather than the iPod
05:33:54carapalidi got a broken finger :( hard to type
05:33:57Lloreancarapalid: Do you see a link to the daily build on the front page?
05:34:13carapalidyes i grabed that one.
05:34:17Tim_MitchellLlorean: I thought the gigabeat was an even newer port?
05:34:28LloreanNewer doesn't mean worse.
05:34:35Soapit is, but it has a Hemi under the hood.
05:34:55carapalidbut the instructions say that you can either choose the daily or current... and i am confused on which one i should get... i just need one that is the most stable of course.
05:35:02LloreanThe hardware in the Gigabeat is more powerful, and more has been discovered about the hardware, so the port is in a better state.
05:35:03carapalidso the latest daily should do then?
05:35:25Lloreancarapalid: There isn't a link to the daily on the front page. We recommend the Current build.
05:36:09carapalidlet me see which one i grabbed... now i am confused...
05:37:20carapalidi went to download, current build, then i choose the nano icon
05:37:28carapalidso i guess it is the current one
05:38:15LloreanThere's really no 'most stable' version for the Nano
05:38:27Tim_MitchellLlorean: it is just the F and X models that are ported, which I'll have to look for on eBay or similar?
05:38:55Lloreanjust the F and X
05:39:00LloreanWhich can be found new in some cases.
05:39:02LloreanBut ebay is the easiest
05:39:18carapalidthank you llorean. one last question...
05:39:29carapalidto all of you... if that is ok...
05:40:03carapalidi read that this rockbox firmware doesn't write to flash/replaces the original firmware that comes with the nano...
05:40:19carapalidso i can always uninstall and go back to the OEM firmware...
05:40:35carapalidplease correct me if i say anything wrong...
05:40:50LloreanNo, that's true. You can always go back.
05:41:04carapalidbut doing this installing and uninstalling many times... can something get corrupted?
05:43:04LloreanThere should be no reason to uninstall and reinstall many times.
05:43:29carapalidi am new into this rockbox thing... i was googling today to find a way to "drag and drop" music into the ipods instead of using itunes... i am TIRED of itunes... i want to just drag and drop. so i guess i am going with this rockbox. not to mention that i like the idea of when i got to see a friend ai can just drag and drop their music into my player in case they don't use i tunes.
05:43:34LloreanBut all it is is data on the disk. iTunes can always restore your iPod if you manage to corrupt the copy of the original software on your iPod, though it's hard to do.
05:43:40Llorean(Hard to corrupt, not hard to restore)
05:44:41carapaliddo you recommend any other softwares/firmwares out there that i can use with my ipod nano so i can easily drag and drop music at my home and also at friends house... or is rockbox my BEST bet?
05:46:23LloreanRockbox is the only alternate firmware for the iPod that's actually focused on music playing features.
05:46:37LloreanThere are a lot of programs that can be used as an alternate means of copying files too/from it.
05:47:46carapalidthat was what i thought. but i really want to be able to drag and drop music in case i am at a friends house... and if they don't have the software they it won't work. ok... cool... i think rockbox is THE ONE and ONLY :)
05:47:54carapalidi heard good things aout it
05:48:08LloreanThere's also iPodLinux, but it's not really focused on music function. It has some, but it's not as deep.
05:48:20carapalidi'll check out that also. thank you pper1
05:48:44carapalidi read some stuff about this ipodlinux on the forum... before i came here.
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05:49:26carapalidare you by the way the person from "brasil" on that forum? i saw some posts from a user that speaks portuguese... i can't remember if it was you.
05:50:16carapalidanyhow, thank you for your help. i will go with that current build for the ipod nano.
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06:38:30TwilightInZeroI forgot I reopened this window...
06:38:50TwilightInZeroAnyways, my WPS is posted now. I've probably messed something up, though.
06:39:01TwilightInZeroLike some rule I've overlooked or something of the sort.
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06:40:18TwilightInZeroIt's a 5G iPod theme, called Twilight... Would someone mind giving it a once-over in case I messed up, so I can fix it?
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06:49:16TwilightInZeroProbably wasn't a good idea to publish at 12:50 AM EST. Well, good night then.
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07:06:46night[ERR] Bad boot sector signature when I try to load the bootloader, any idea whats causing this?
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08:20:46carahi. can someone help me please? i have spent 4 hours (i swear) trying to figgure out what i am doing wrong... i am sooo frustrated...
08:21:27carai would really appreciate anyone's help
08:21:35Mikachujust ask your question
08:22:14carai am new to the rockbox thing... so i read all the info and was able install the rockbox onto this ipod nano.
08:22:23caraworked like a charm!
08:23:06carai noticed that the songs that i was uploading onto the nano via rockbox weren't showing when i woudl switch to the mac OS of the nano... so i started searching on the forums for the reason...
08:23:17carathen i found out that nanos that have firmwares 1.2 have this issue.
08:23:41carai then found the old installationg guide (wiki) and followed that 4 times... and still... nothing...
08:23:45carai can't get it right :(
08:24:05Mikachujust don't use the mac OS then, rockbox is better :)
08:25:03carawell... i kind of like the rockbox myself... but this is my sister's ipod... and she has a hard time seeing... and she wants to use the apple OS... unfortunately.
08:25:24Mikachuokay, you know about voice support in rockbox though?
08:25:33carawe are doing all this so we don't have to use itunes anymore... we want to drag and drop the music into the ipod like other players.
08:25:43carayeah, i read that
08:25:49Mikachuif you drag and drop, it won't show up in mac os, you have to use itunes
08:25:52Mikachuthat is just the way it is
08:26:04Mikachu(or another program designed to work with ipods)
08:26:10caraso the thread i was following is wrong?
08:26:23Mikachusounds like it, or you misunderstood their problem
08:26:46carabut there is actual a "tutorial" for the nano 1.2 version users to fix this issue...
08:26:52carathat was the tutorial i was following
08:27:27Mikachuwell, the apple firmware requires the music to be in the /ipod_control/blabla folders and the database file to be updated etc
08:30:09carasorry... i am confused. i understand what you are saying... but... what does the update of the database have to do with this 1.2 version? you lost me!
08:30:26Mikachunot anything i think
08:30:41Mikachui'm just saying that nothing will make drag and drop work with the original firmware
08:30:58carayou mean with the 1.2 firm?
08:31:12Mikachuby original i mean apple, any version
08:32:05carai am sorry but... when then there are several tuturials on the forums on how to run the rockbox so you can drag and drop and then swicth to the original OS so you can play the music that way?
08:32:15caraam i reading those instructions wrong then?
08:32:29Mikachucan you link to one?
08:32:44carasure onse sec...
08:34:57carasorry, one sec...
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08:35:40carais it just me or i can't login there now? it is taking forever...
08:36:49caraone sec...
08:37:49carai am sorry, for some reason i can't login... none of the links work now... iwonder if the site is under maintance.
08:38:27carai am pisted now... i spent 4 hours for nothing!
08:39:15carai am logged in now...
08:40:21Bagder_works for me
08:40:27caramikachu... sorry... something is up with the site i think... i can log in but i can't search...
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08:40:33carathis is wierd
08:40:51caralet me do some cleaning here then...
08:40:59w1ll14mmorning all
08:41:09Bagderah, you said forums
08:41:16Bagderno, they're not responding to me either
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08:41:26Bagdera usual problem at this time of day for some reason
08:41:38Mikachumaybe they're pregnant, morning sickness
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08:41:42Bagderthey're just slow
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08:41:47*Bagder reads them now
08:42:47BagderMikachu: since they're in the US, it is a rather late morning ;-)
08:42:51carai got the search working now. odd
08:43:04Bagderor early perhaps
08:43:11Mikachui didn't know they're outsourced
08:43:22carahere is the link mikachu
08:43:51carabagder and will14m... u guys know anything about installing the rockbox on a 1.2 nano?
08:44:05w1ll14m2g ?
08:44:17carafrom that link there is another link of the old tutorial that for that...
08:44:26carathat was the one i followed.
08:44:29carayes 2 gb
08:44:34cara1st generation nano
08:44:35Mikachuthat page has nothing on your problem
08:44:52w1ll14mwhat's the problem ?
08:45:31w1ll14mcara: what's your problem?
08:45:32Mikachucara: you just told me you had successfully installed rockbox
08:45:47Mikachuthat thread doesn't talk anything about copying music
08:45:59carafirst time i installed the rockbox it worked fine. but i noticed that the songs i would drag and drop via rockbox woudn't show up when using the original OS. so i searched and found that on 1.2 firmware there were issues like that.
08:46:16caramikachu, i think we missunderstood each other then...
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08:46:28Bagdercara: the OF will never find songs you drag and drop, afaik
08:46:32w1ll14moriginal firmware uses ipod_control for storing music
08:46:54w1ll14mand uses a database to store information about those songs
08:47:02carafirst time i tried it worked fine... but the songs weren't showing on the original OS...
08:47:03carai see
08:47:16caraso i missunderstood the tutorials then?
08:47:31w1ll14myou can use both rockbox and of
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08:47:49w1ll14mbut not the same music
08:48:03carabecause there were some threads like the one i posted above about people installing the rockbox on the 1.2...and they could play their songs on the original version...
08:48:04w1ll14mas itunes is required to set up songs for og
08:48:22carai guess i missunderstood the threads then...
08:48:28DataGhosttechnically it isn't required w1ll14m :P
08:48:29w1ll14mso you can play music with of, but then you need itunes again
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08:48:36Bagdercara: you need to use some weird program to make the OF see the songs
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08:49:01DataGhostI'm using floola on my laptop (since iTunes will trash all music which is not on my laptop) to put vids on my iPod
08:49:04w1ll14mbadger: probaply a database editor or so
08:49:18Bagderyes, hence "weird" ;-)
08:49:24w1ll14mhehehe :)
08:49:25Bagderthere are several that does the job I think
08:49:28caraso is this just for the 1.2 firmware or ALL of them?
08:49:32Bagdercara: all
08:49:52caraoh... i got confused then. sorry MIKACHU!
08:49:52*w1ll14m almost became an echo again
08:50:06Mikachucara: no problem, i tried to tell you you had to use itunes though
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08:50:31carai was under the impression that you could turn your ipod to rockbox to load the music in drag and drop mode... then you could switch back to the original APPLE OS to play the songs...
08:50:35w1ll14mi still have of on my 5g 60gb, but i've never used it since i have rockbox
08:50:52w1ll14mcara: for rockbox drag and drop works fine
08:50:59Mikachucara: no, you can always drag and drop music to your ipod, rockbox lets you PLAY that music
08:51:18w1ll14mbut OF uses a 'database' where the filenames and tags of the music files are stored
08:51:18carayeah, but i was hoping to drag and drop via the rockbox and then play the songs via the original OS
08:51:27carai see
08:51:44w1ll14mso you would need a 'database' editor that can change filenames
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08:52:24caraw1114m... let me just see if i understood this right then...
08:52:49carai can drag/drop the songs into my ipod... but the rockbox firmware is the only way to play them. right?
08:53:17w1ll14mor you could use rockbox in database mode, but then you need itunes to set up the songs
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08:53:30caraare there any software out there that will do was i was hoping?
08:53:49 Quit kaaloo (Client Quit)
08:53:58w1ll14mrockbox in database mode searches the disk for music and will search trough the music setup by itunes
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08:54:11carai don't want to use any itunes/other software... cuz i like the idea of sometimes visiting a friend... and if they have cool songs i can just drag and drop and then play.
08:54:21w1ll14mcara: badger said something about a tool... maybe he knows more
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08:54:30Mikachuthen what you want is rockbox
08:54:40w1ll14mcara: indeed you need rockbox
08:54:43Mikachuare there programs like gtkpod for windows?
08:54:53Mikachuin that case you could put that program on your ipod and run it from there
08:55:00Mikachuif you absolutely don't want to use rockbox
08:55:00carawhy apple did this? does anyone know?
08:55:09Mikachubecause they want you to use itunes
08:55:13carait sucks! i like drag and drop players!
08:55:14w1ll14mapple loves drm
08:55:23Mikachutell all your friends apple sucks
08:55:24caraman... and NO one has found a way to rack this shit?
08:55:34w1ll14mmikashu: you rock
08:55:38Mikachusure we have, we install rockbox
08:56:03carawell... but i mean... drag and drop and still use the original apple OS to play them though...
08:56:09Galoislook, the problem is that the software on the ipod itself is set up, by default, to only let you play thru itunes
08:56:18Galoisso to do what you want, you have to *replace the original OS*
08:56:22Mikachuno, that is by definition impossible
08:56:33w1ll14mcara: if i where you, just try rockbox for a week... once you go rockbox you never want back
08:57:07caraoh man... i thought some reverse engineering and some good hackers would be able to do that... but... i don't know a lot about all this hacking stuff... so i might be wrong.
08:57:16Galoisif you're going to replace the original OS anyway, you might as well put in something better, instead of just fixing one problem
08:57:17 Join efyx [0] (
08:57:24carabut i hear all this stuff about the wii being hacked, the xbox 360, the psp...
08:57:36caraso i was wondering how come not the damn ipod?
08:57:39w1ll14mcara: it can be done, but someone need to write a program (rockbox won't do that)
08:57:42Mikachuhow do you think we get ROKCBOX TO RUN?E
08:57:57 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (n=steve-o@
08:58:03Bagdercara: wake up
08:58:04 Join Weiss [0] (
08:58:09carayeah, i like rockbox... but the GUI is really tiny...
08:58:20w1ll14mcara: you can install themes :)
08:58:25pondlifeDepends on which font you use
08:58:30w1ll14mcara: there are themes just like apple
08:58:33caramy sister has a hard time seeing that stuff..
08:58:44carathemes? ok... i did not know that... serious?
08:58:59carasorry... i have just been reading about rockbox all day today...
08:59:10caraso i still don't know 100% of everything that can be done...
08:59:29w1ll14mcara: we have a bunch of nice themes :) check the link mikachu gave you :)
08:59:34Mikachuinstead of asking impossible things like making the apple firmware sane, you could say your problem was a small font
08:59:45caraso these themes will make the firmware look similar to the original OS? like... i mean... big fonts, color background etc?
08:59:55w1ll14mif you want :)
08:59:56Mikachucara: just look at them!
09:00:03amiconncara: There's also the voice UI
09:00:03 Quit thegeek (Remote closed the connection)
09:00:21carai am right now. do you guys recommend any though?
09:00:39*Bagder doesn't care much about the look
09:00:41Mikachupick the one you like
09:00:50carasimple to use, nice looking, not a lot of clutter...
09:00:52caraoh ok...
09:01:20w1ll14mbagder: but a nice font is good for 5g :) text is so small :)
09:01:35Bagderbut I don't have a 5g :)
09:01:37carawell, thank you all for helping me understand this firmware. any other readings/link that you might thinkg it would help me learn more about this?
09:01:54w1ll14mcara: search for iPod_nano on you will find a nice apple theme
09:02:46carajust curious... do you guys use any of them on your ipods?
09:03:04Mikachuyou can make your own if you want
09:03:07w1ll14mi don't because i have video, so i need bigger themes :)
09:03:16Mikachui guess most people pick one that looks nice and adjust them to their taste
09:03:34caracool. is photoshop the soft used to make the themes?
09:03:47w1ll14mcara: mostly
09:03:51Mikachuyou can use any editor you want
09:04:00Mikachu(ps gimp)
09:04:22caracool. i'll spendm ore time on that link then. thank you guys/girls for all the help.
09:04:55w1ll14mmikachu: this one is nice for nano :) Blue_Dream
09:05:33Mikachui'm somewhat constrained in my theme choices because i want japanese fonts
09:05:54carathe blue dream indeed is a nice one
09:06:27w1ll14mmikachu: ahh k :)
09:06:42 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
09:07:06GaloisI take whatever theme I want and hack up the graphics to fit the japanese fonts. This works as long as the original font was not _too_ small.
09:08:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:08:06carawait, is that the only page for the nano?
09:08:16Mikachunot quite
09:08:43 Join petur [0] (i=d4efd6a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
09:08:44Mikachui think that's mostly the same ones though
09:09:33carathere are a few new ones there. but i guess the best one i think is the blue dream
09:10:11caraor the other one with the blue MacOS background
09:10:19w1ll14mcara: it's your choice :)
09:10:27w1ll14mcara: you can make custom backgrounds
09:10:43caraclix nano.
09:10:51carayeah, i might look into making my own.
09:11:03w1ll14mcara: just play around with rockbox for a few days, and it will speak for it self
09:11:05carathen i can make bigger fonts... so my sister can see better
09:11:19w1ll14mcara: true theme.cfg there you can set a theme
09:11:23carahow long have you guys been using rock?
09:11:23w1ll14ma font
09:11:35w1ll14mcara: for over 3 months now
09:12:09*w1ll14m is never EVER going back to OF
09:13:12 Quit ender` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:13:21w1ll14mi have 2 ipod 5g's 1 30GB and 1 60GB, end of the month i'm going to bou a nano 2g 2gb to help porting rockbox to nano 2g
09:13:38*Bagder been in the rockbox state of mind since before there were ipods
09:14:08carai got my ipod via ebay... it is actually for my sister...
09:14:11DataGhostyou needn't buy an iPod for that w1ll14m
09:14:17DataGhostyou can just download the firmware from apple
09:14:30w1ll14mdataghost: but i like to :)
09:14:31carashe is young... so i thought i wouldn't spend quite 250 dollars right now on her...
09:14:41w1ll14mcara: i can imagine
09:14:54w1ll14mcara: but what is young in your words?
09:15:09GodEaterdidn't foopod do the whole "drag 'n' drop" and then rebuild the iTunes database on the iPod thing ?
09:15:15w1ll14mhehehe i'm just 19 :)
09:15:41GodEaternot foodpod, foodpod
09:15:44DataGhostit's foo_dop nowadays
09:15:47w1ll14mbut indeed ... i woulnd't spend 250 dollars on my sister :)
09:15:48carai should check this foodpod out too...
09:15:49GodEaterthat's the one
09:15:54DataGhostfoo_pod is for 0.8.x :)
09:15:58 Quit Mikachu (Remote closed the connection)
09:16:03 Join Mikachu [0] (
09:16:07GodEatercara: foo_dop - google it
09:16:11DataGhostbut I think it might do that yes
09:16:11Galoisthat approach requires using special software on the host machine, which your friend is not likely to have
09:16:23DataGhostI just use it to play / copy music FROM my iPod
09:16:35GodEaterheh - a much better usage IMO
09:16:40carayeah... i like the idea of taking the player with me and uploading songs from friends machine :)
09:16:44carai think rockbox is the way to go
09:16:45DataGhostthe only thing I have to put on my iPod sometimes are movies, which foo_dop can't handle
09:16:56GodEaterat the moment :)
09:17:04DataGhostwell I doubt that it ever will
09:17:12DataGhostfoobar2000 is a music player, not a video player :P
09:17:20GodEateryou make a salient point
09:17:21DataGhostso support for videos isn't that obvious
09:17:39 Quit Big_Mac (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:17:55GodEaterI never actually tried out foo_dop - I've no idea if it's any good
09:18:02GodEateror how long it takes to rebuild the database
09:18:23DataGhostiirc I've never used it to upload anything either :)
09:18:37 Quit vadim_ ("Leaving")
09:18:43*w1ll14m runs to his bedroom, grabs his ipod and turns it on. Now it's time for a good wakeup song!!!! god damn.. i love hardcore
09:18:44DataGhostI just use iTunes on this PC
09:18:53DataGhostthat'll keep references to my music and vids just fine
09:19:07DataGhostfoobar2000 for actually playing music :)
09:19:17DataGhostand foo_dop so I can play music on my laptop while I'm away
09:19:27GodEaterbesides, it's too easy for Apple to keep introducing new fields into the iTunes database and breaking things
09:19:32GodEaterrockbox makes life much easier ;)
09:19:45DataGhostnot for 80GB owners :P
09:20:01*GodEater cracks the whip over LinusN's back
09:20:01DataGhosthm, that reminds me
09:20:01w1ll14mGodEater: you are damn true!!!
09:20:05DataGhosttoday is my day off
09:20:10DataGhostmaybe I should start working on the iPL kernel
09:20:18carau think they will get rockbox running on a 80g and a nano 2nd generation soon?
09:20:26GodEater80GB soon
09:20:26DataGhost80G? yes
09:20:28 Join himitsu [0] (n=himitsu@
09:20:29DataGhostnano 2G? no
09:20:30w1ll14mcara: we will see :)
09:20:31GodEaterNano 2nd Gen - no
09:20:38DataGhostnot in a gazillion years if apple did their job properly
09:20:54GodEater"gazillion" may be a slight exageration
09:20:58DataGhostmaybe in a gazillion years, with a huge distributed computing network bruteforcing
09:21:02carareally? how come not on the nano 2gn? not a big priority/users wanting it?
09:21:04GodEaterbut not in the foreseeable future
09:21:07w1ll14mDataGhost: it should be possible... (i hope) :)
09:21:09DataGhostcara encryption :)
09:21:19w1ll14mow shit....
09:21:21 Join ender` [0] (n=ender@
09:21:25DataGhostyes w1ll14m but if they use something like RSA it's pretty screwed
09:21:25GodEaterit's not that we don't have users wanting it
09:21:28caradata, encryption is stronger on the 2ng generation?
09:21:32DataGhostpretty much screwed*
09:21:33GodEaterwe just don't have any developers that want it
09:21:47DataGhostcara I don't know anything about it
09:21:51GodEateror want it bad enough to make themselves cry cracking apple's encryption
09:21:59DataGhostI just know that I can make life worse than hell with the proper encryption
09:22:07DataGhostand if I can, imagine what Apple can do
09:22:19GaloisI don't buy the RSA argument. Microsoft used 2048-bit RSA encryption for Xbox software, and people eventually hacked that.
09:22:20DataGhostreally, if they use something like RSA with a huge keypair...
09:22:22w1ll14mdataghost: true
09:22:24caraheheheh.... so their encryption is that bad huh?
09:22:33DataGhostGalois then MS did a shitty job
09:22:34w1ll14mcara: indeed
09:22:40DataGhostif you see how RSA works... it's inherently safe
09:22:57GodEaterI suspect they didn't do asymmetric encryption
09:23:06carawhat do you guys say is a good mp3 player out there in the market that doesn't have all this stuff and is easy to crack?
09:23:08crashdit isn't inherently safe, it relies on something which could be trivialised
09:23:11GodEateryou'd burn half the nano's battery every time you turned it on doing the decrypt
09:23:14DataGhostif you give a device a public key (to decode the firmware) in flashrom there is almost no way to encrypt firmware in a way that makes it decryptable
09:23:24GodEatercara: Gigabeat
09:23:24DataGhostthe only thing you might be able to do is replace the flashrom with another (or no) key
09:23:32crashdit's safe in the forseeable future, but that doesn't make it inherently safe : )
09:23:34w1ll14mDataGhost: where can i get a copy of firmware from nano 2g?
09:23:38caratoshiba gigabet? really?
09:23:48GodEateryeah, the F or the X series
09:23:49DataGhostcrashd using the proper keylength etc.. :P
09:23:51GodEaternot the S
09:23:55DataGhostI just mean mathematically
09:24:08GodEaterw1ll14m: look at the apple install forums
09:24:09crashdDataGhost: well, no, if the factoring of primes is trivialised, then RSA becomes useless
09:24:17DataGhostyes if that happens :P
09:24:22GodEaterwe've linked in there a few times to a site that offers all the apple firmwares for download
09:24:29Bagderwell, the sansa uses 160bit DSA signatures
09:24:34crashdso it isn't inherently safe, it relies on a set of conditions that are currently true
09:24:49 Join evilg123 [0] (
09:24:54Bagderbut still didn't require us to brute-force 160bit DSA
09:25:09GodEaterthe Mathemetician that comes up with a quick way of factoring primes is rich rich rich
09:25:23crashdGodEater: im not suggesting it'll happen
09:25:23DataGhostand he could be very dead also
09:25:32DataGhostdepending on how he releases his information
09:25:35DataGhostand to whom
09:25:37crashdim just saying that it's not inherent on the algorithm
09:25:47GodEaterand I agree
09:25:49crashd: )
09:26:09DataGhostanyway, to all that's known now, the best bet is to get the contents of the flashrom
09:26:33GodEaterencryption is only as strong as it's weakest link, and if you want to crack it THAT bad, it's easier to find someone who knows the key and blowtorch their feet till they talk.....
09:26:35DataGhostand currently, that's not an option for me (I don't have a nano, let alone the proper equipment).. and for what I've read not actually for many living mortals
09:26:45 Join LinusN [0] (i=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
09:26:45DataGhostoh yes and someone in apple :P
09:26:49Bagderwe need one of those big fat xbox sponsor donations to movitate peopel to go wild
09:26:53Galoisthe microsoft encryption was broken by finding a buffer overflow exploit in an existing game and loading code via that exploit (after loading the game itself, to pass through the RSA check)
09:27:09DataGhostah yes Galois that's what "we're" hoping for, too
09:27:16Galoisyou can laugh all you want at microsoft, but I bet apple's OS has exploitable buffer overflows
09:27:18DataGhostas I just said, the best bet is the flashrom
09:27:27Galoisall you need is one, in any previous released version
09:27:32GodEaterno-one's found one on the 360 yet mind you
09:27:34DataGhostwhich is not really accessible from the hardware point of view (well, not easily)
09:27:53Galoisthis is not easy to do, but it's much easier than breaking the RSA via conventional means
09:27:56DataGhostso if you find a buffer overflow in the nano, you could theoretically (however, the hardware is unknown, too) dump the contents of the flashrom to the disk
09:28:09GodEaterI'm wishing for someone to break the 360 - I want my XBMC360 now dammit!
09:28:15BagderGalois: what makes you think it is RSA?
09:28:23DataGhostI just said that
09:28:24DataGhostas an example
09:28:34Galoiswell, I used RSA for the microsoft example. We know microsoft used RSA.
09:28:52GodEaterin the Xbox apparently
09:29:04GodEaterI didn't think they did, but I've not read up on it recently
09:29:09Galoiswe don't know what apple is using, but the same principle applies to any form of code authentication
09:29:29evilg123I don't want to interupt any ongoing conversations, but I was wondering if I could ask for some help compiling a build, I've posted in the appropriate forum so I'm Ok with waiting
09:29:50 Quit pondlife (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:30:13GodEaterBagder: I mended my router config by the way now. corkscrew works a treat.
09:30:33DataGhostanyway, I guess it's pretty useless without the flashrom
09:30:43DataGhostfor all I know, Apple applied caesar-1 on the encrypted firmware
09:30:54DataGhostgood luck guessing that :P
09:31:13*GodEater grabs his Nano2 firmware and starts rotating it one byte at a time
09:31:39 Join thegeek [0] (
09:31:39Bagderwell, those simple ones should be easy to exclude
09:31:46w1ll14mGodEater: where did you got yours ?
09:31:52GodEaterimagine how embarassed they'd be if they really did use something so simple
09:31:58GodEaterw1ll14m: I jest - I've not downloaded it
09:32:07DataGhostno I meant... apply caesar-1 to the ENCRYPTED firmware
09:32:07w1ll14mgod damn ... can't find it :|
09:32:09DataGhostso 2 'encryptions'
09:32:19DataGhostthat would make the problem a lot bigger
09:32:21w1ll14mGodEater:url ?
09:32:21GodEaterw1ll14m: hang on - I'll get you the link again
09:32:28LinusNwell, if all they want is dmca protection, i guess caesar-1 is sufficient
09:32:30DataGhostsince you'd have to figure out that they did that and THEN crack the code
09:33:14DataGhostthe good news is that this probably won't happen on older iPods
09:33:21DataGhostsince that would immediately reveal everything :)
09:33:23 Join MonkeyTamer [0] (n=chatzill@
09:33:32 Quit midgey ()
09:34:00DataGhostAll I found in the firmware was a bunch of xml files and WAVs :(
09:34:07DataGhostsome sports thing or something
09:34:28w1ll14matleat it's a zip
09:35:20w1ll14m{{~~ /−−−−-\ {{~~ / \ {{~~| | {{~~| S T O P | {{~~| | {{~~ \ / {{~~ \−−−−-/ Copyright(C) 2001 Apple Computer, Inc.−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−−
09:35:22BagderI like the beginning of the Firmware-
09:35:32 Join n1s [0] (
09:35:43GodEaterit looks best in a hex editor
09:35:44DataGhostw1ll14m use a hex editor
09:35:47GodEaterit lines up nicely
09:35:50 Join DerPapst [0] (
09:35:54DataGhostnot by definition GodEater
09:35:55DerPapstgood evening
09:35:56Bagderhexdump -C is your friend
09:36:00DataGhostI changed mine to 32 bytes per line
09:36:06DataGhostbig screen so I could see more :P
09:36:08GodEaterby default in most hex editors ;P
09:36:17n1sBagder: did you see my lang problem?
09:36:18w1ll14m{{~~ /−−−−-\ {{~~ / \ {{~~| | {{~~| S T O P | {{~~| | {{~~ \ / {{~~ \−−−−-/ Copyright(C) 2001 Apple Computer, Inc.−−−−−−−−−−
09:36:21w1ll14meuhmmm ... ;)
09:36:29GodEatermorep people should use ascii art in their firmwares
09:36:33Bagdern1s: nope
09:36:48w1ll14mswitched to ascii
09:36:54w1ll14mi use total commander ;)
09:37:17n1sBagder: Basically if : none is used to remove a string the order of the strings in the .lng file is wrong.
09:37:21DerPapstheh.. (C) 2001 ^^
09:38:09Bagdern1s: none should not be used if you want to remain "compatible", iirc. You should use DEPRECATED
09:38:59w1ll14m DNANsoso P Xa v$ Lz DNANdpua a }
09:39:11n1syes, but in the cleanup patch, none is used in lots of places for example for swcodec only strings, it works fine for the built in strings but the .lng's are broken
09:39:24*DerPapst wonders if 2001 is changed to 2007 whether that will break loading the fw.
09:39:26BagderDNAN being NAND backwards (due to endian I guess)
09:39:37w1ll14mbadger i think so :)
09:39:44Bagdern1s: oh...
09:39:46w1ll14mas 5g firmware is
09:39:50w1ll14m!ATAsoso D tr Ğ+ |!ATAcrsr r P ^ |!ATAdpua d |
09:39:55w1ll14mshould be ATA!
09:40:08w1ll14mso it is indeed backwards
09:40:33DataGhostkeyword: endianity
09:41:00DataGhostand watch out with copypasting 'firmware' on IRC
09:41:15DataGhostit might contain control characters which might in turn trigger some bot, kicking you for using 'color' or whatever :P
09:41:15GodEateryes - please refrain
09:41:27DataGhostor loads of \n
09:41:32DataGhostyou don't want that, believe me :P
09:41:42MikachuDataGhost: freenode has +c which just silently strips color codes
09:41:45n1sBagder: the strange thing is that even if I do h300: "foo" *: none it breaks the .lng built for h300 too.
09:41:52DataGhostoh it's enabled here.. ok :)
09:42:08Bagdern1s: sounds like a... bug ;-)
09:42:14DataGhostquakenet has that too.. and all unrealircds too, afaik. but I just didn't pay attention to the current channelmodes :P
09:42:40 Join peppot [0] (
09:42:40Mikachui think on most other networks it blocks the whole message
09:42:45peppothello :)
09:42:54DataGhostoh and Bagder already said something about endianity.. I wansn't reading, either :)
09:42:59Bagder"color codes" being one of the most stupid things every introduced in IRC
09:42:59peppotI've ended up with an 80GB iPod
09:43:05Bagder(and by mIRC it was)
09:43:11DataGhostit's not in the RFC :P
09:43:12peppotare they on their way to be supported, or is it out of the question?
09:43:14GodEaterBagder - not quite as stupid as Microsoft's "comic chat"
09:43:28DataGhosteven CTCP and DCC have their own RFC, afaik. they are still not pure IRC
09:43:32BagderGodEater: at least they tried to do it by the standards way
09:43:37GodEaterpeppot: the solution has been found - we're just implementing it
09:43:48peppotGodEater: fantastic!
09:43:51GodEaterand by "we" I mean LinusN
09:43:53BagderDataGhost: no they're not in any RFC outside the original rfc one
09:44:04peppotwhat's the address of the New Ports forum?
09:44:06DataGhosthm? hmmm
09:44:10*DataGhost looks up 1459
09:44:22GodEaterpeppot: can you not just start from ?
09:44:26MonkeyTamercheck the phonebook
09:44:38peppotGodEater: lol, didn't even see that link, sorry
09:44:50GodEaterso few people do....
09:45:24DataGhosthm indeed. I thought that was an RFC I was looking at back then
09:45:45DataGhostit was just some monospaced, 80-byte-line file
09:46:27DataGhostshame that it was closed, too
09:46:33DataGhostbut there isn't really any progress at the moment anyway
09:46:48Bagderall irc networks run their own ways these days
09:47:34BagderI like how my "IRC history" page talks about "future" and mentions two projects that started and died in 97 and 98 ... :-O
09:47:51Mikachuyou are old Bagder :)
09:47:57DataGhost98... that was the year I got my first e-mail address
09:47:59DataGhostat yahoo
09:48:00BagderI should go and have my lunch nap now
09:48:02DataGhostit still exists :P
09:48:10DataGhostI might be one of the oldest yahoo members
09:48:18*GodEater gots his first email address in '92
09:48:28Mikachumy brother has a 6digit icq number, mine is 8 :(
09:48:38DataGhostI had multiple
09:48:40GodEatermine's 7
09:48:42Mikachudon't people get 10 nowadays though?
09:48:43DataGhostbut I kept forgetting them
09:48:45GodEaterbut I don't use it much
09:48:47DataGhostmine is 9 now :(
09:48:53Mikachu(does anyone still use icq?)
09:48:53GodEaterI have a *four* digit slashdot id though
09:48:54 Join pondlife [0] (
09:48:58DataGhostyes :)
09:48:58Bagdericq is too new for me ;-)
09:49:27*DerPapst still uses icq ;)
09:49:34GodEaterand positive karma too
09:49:37DerPapst7 digits btw :P
09:49:58*GodEater wonders if he can still remember his icq password
09:50:04DataGhostthat was my problem, too
09:50:09 Quit pondlife (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:50:12DataGhostthe 'send my password' thingy never worked
09:50:13DerPapsttype it in here and i'll test it
09:50:31GodEateruh ok
09:50:32DataGhostyou do know that when you type your password on irc it appears as stars to everyone else?
09:50:36DataGhostlike this: **********
09:50:44DataGhost:P strikes again
09:50:52DataGhostdamn GodEater :)
09:50:56Mikachu"omg press alt+z for a cool easter egg in mirc"
09:51:02DataGhosthah I disabled that
09:51:09DataGhostNow Playing: 9696. Sevendust - [(1997) Sevendust #03] Terminator (03:14/04:54, 192Kbps, mp3) <- ctrl alt z
09:51:15GodEatergot caught out too many times huh ?
09:51:16DataGhostoccasionally, ctrl doesn't work
09:51:25GodEater| .
09:51:27DataGhostalt fxfighter is nice too
09:51:33Mikachu |
09:51:36DataGhostI found out that it doesn't work as well in a dutch chatroom
09:51:37*Mikachu accepts the pong challenge
09:51:38GodEateryou missed!
09:51:41Mikachu . |
09:51:46GodEater| .
09:51:53Mikachuno, intermediate frame! . |
09:52:03GodEater. |
09:52:10Mikachutake this : |
09:52:14GodEatertha'ts enough of that
09:52:18Mikachu;) yeah
09:52:41*GodEater has never seen pong with two balls
09:52:54DerPapstthat was berpong
09:52:57DataGhostI have
09:53:03GodEaterwell I have now
09:53:11DataGhostI also played 8-player-pong once
09:53:16JdGordonn1s: re 6624, the create directory and paste menu items are the only ones that make sense when you go context menu in a empty dir yeah?
09:53:17DataGhostwith multiball and everything
09:53:21JdGordon... should be easy to fix
09:53:29DataGhostthat was a demo for the 'wunderwall' or something like that...
09:53:36DataGhostwith controllers somewhat like the wii
09:53:36*GodEater spots on topic talk again
09:53:42DataGhostbut better and with more players :)
09:54:22 Quit MonkeyTamer ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
09:54:59*GodEater wonders if anything from #rockbox ever made it to
09:55:10*DataGhost submits
09:55:27GodEaterwon't get many votes if it's not uberfunny
09:55:38*DerPapst wants to have the link then
09:55:47DataGhostyeah indeed.. never mind then :P
09:55:54scorchewe have our own...
09:56:09GodEateryeah - I made it on there recently ;)
09:56:17GodEaterI feel validated - people think I'm funny!
09:56:48 Quit BHSPitMonkey ("Leaving")
09:57:00DataGhostmaybe it was google, indexing your 'vote funny' page :P
09:57:01*DataGhost runs
09:58:07Bagderthe GoldenQuotes is a good page to read once in a while to cheer you up
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10:00:21 Part fejfighter
10:01:06DataGhostanyway, I'm off for a long, hot shower :)
10:01:14 Join fejfighter [0] (
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10:06:30LandusAnyone awake?
10:07:38GodEatersome of us
10:08:39GodEaternot me though - I'm sleep-ircing
10:08:53LandusI noticed there was a change to the h300 so I updated my source.
10:08:53 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
10:09:32LandusApparently CVS isn't being used. Something SVN is, but I've been grabbing the latest CVS version and compiling with cygwin.
10:09:55scorchethen install SVN
10:09:56LandusI can't seem to use the syn command in cygwin and I can't find anything that helps.
10:10:09Bagdersvn is the name of the command
10:10:14Bagdersubversion is the name of the cygwin package
10:10:16scorcheyou have to re-run the setup to install subversion
10:10:33LandusI'm not completely clueless to unix commands. It's more installing new things for cygwin.
10:10:36peturor get tortoisesvn
10:10:50LandusI did. The command still isn't recognized.
10:11:46n1sJdGordon: I'd say so yes (and of course paste only when somethinhg's in the clipboard)
10:12:24GodEaterLandus: which version of subversion did you install ?
10:12:36JdGordonn1s: you were too slow... fixed in svn already :)
10:12:37LandusLet me check.
10:12:56 Quit Weiss (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:14:06scorchewe really need to link that whole thread by blue45 rather than just that one post....that was a golden thread if there ever was one
10:14:14LandusThere isn't a subversion tarball in the rockbox cygwin mirror, is there?
10:16:39 Quit DerPapst (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:16:53 Quit cara ()
10:17:31n1sJdGordon: yeps, ircing in the shower is kind of hard with my desktop computer tho... and thanks for fixing :-)
10:17:39JdGordondoes anyone remember the outcome of the discussion we had ages ago about having a proper start screen? was it a good idea as long as someone could be bothered coding it?
10:17:46JdGordonhaha :)
10:18:15 Join Weiss [0] (
10:18:47GodEaterdidn't the GB guys already do one ?
10:18:47linuxstbBagder: Could you do the necessary with yet another new version of ipodpatcher?
10:18:51peturJdGordon: you mean this virtual root thing?
10:18:57GodEateror did they do it in a way that was completely not portable ?
10:19:09n1sJdGordon: I think it was kind of agreed on to have a "root menu" but it was a must that it was possible to set it to start in the file browser etc. the discussion should be in the logs somewhere and should probably be wikified...
10:19:11GodEateroh - you don't mean a splash screen
10:19:11LinusNi like the virtual root idea
10:19:28LinusNbut it requires some internal code restructuring
10:19:30*petur does too
10:20:21JdGordonwell! im going to see how hard it would be if someone doesnt have a look at the menu restructure patch! :p
10:20:31LinusNspeaking of features, what's the status of the REP?
10:20:54LinusNrecording enhancement pack
10:21:27peturbest to ask Mmmm, I think most stuff is visual (histogram, larger fonts,...)
10:22:32petur (first page) has an overview
10:26:15 Quit webguest48 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
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10:32:30*w1ll14m is going to play with ida pro
10:37:28 Join muesli__ [0] (n=muesli_t@
10:37:47hachiI'm a virtual root menu
10:40:29bluebrotherwhy not replace the "recording screen at startup" option with a "screen X at startup"?
10:41:17peturwell if all those screens are below the virtual root, we'll have an option to start in one of those or the root
10:42:22 Quit daurnimator (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:42:48*bluebrother wants to be able to always start in the file browser
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10:45:41n1sbluebrother: AFAIU that's planned
10:46:16 Quit markun (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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10:50:03JdGordonbluebrother: yeah hopefully, you will be able to start in any of the "main" screens, or whichever was the last one you were in...
10:50:16JdGordonfile browser code is horrible :'(
10:50:43w1ll14manyone here with a nano 2g ?
10:50:47w1ll14mand linux ?
10:50:53*bluebrother wishes to have more time to look into stuff himself
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10:53:29 Quit Mouser_X (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
10:53:41linuxstbw1ll14m: Yes, somewhere...
10:54:17w1ll14mok, can you get me a dump from firmware partition ?
10:55:01linuxstbYou don't need me for that -
10:55:29w1ll14mis a firmware file identical to firmware partition ?
10:55:34linuxstbThe .ipsw file you download from there is a zip file, unzip it and you get the image of the firmware partition.
10:55:57linuxstbYes - you just "dd" that image to your ipod to install the firmware.
10:56:06w1ll14mok thanx :) i knew it was a zip, but i didn't that the .1 file was a firmware ;)
10:56:21w1ll14mlinuxstb: i don't want to dd my ipod 5g with this ;)
10:56:33linuxstbThe unzipped file is called "Firmware-X.Y.Z"...
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10:57:30*GodEater whoops. Got my ssh tunnel going so I can check out at work now!
10:57:50linuxstbShouldn't you be working at work? :)
10:58:00linuxstb(like the rest of us do....)
10:58:13GodEatertechnically yes....
10:58:19scorchespeak for yourself!
10:58:24w1ll14mlinuxstb: i'm not allowed to work for 3 days... went to docter yesterday :)
10:58:29GodEaterbut it's a slack day - and there's huge upheavals over the road - so no-one will notice.
10:58:40w1ll14mi have an internal infection on my right thumb....
10:58:54Mikachuhm, the 2g has voice support?
10:59:07 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
10:59:30w1ll14mok, i've got the osos rsrc and aupd out of the image :)
10:59:39linuxstbMikachu: The Nike stuff on all Nanos has voice - at least, there are lots of wav files stored in the rsrc image...
10:59:58Mikachuah, that must be it
11:00:08Mikachui'm just looking at it for fun
11:00:09linuxstbWith celebrity sports people telling you you've just run a new personal best....
11:00:47GodEateroh lord, really ?
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11:01:27linuxstbExtract the rsrc image from the firmware, strip of the first (I think) 512 bytes, then mount it as a fat filesystem...
11:01:44w1ll14mok, how to strip first 512 butes?
11:01:52GodEaterw1ll14m: dd
11:02:06linuxstbdd if=rsrc.bin of=rsrc2.bin skip=1
11:02:22linuxstb(default blocksize is 512 bytes)
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11:02:50w1ll14m32775+0 records in
11:02:54w1ll14m32775+0 records out
11:02:58w1ll14m16780800 bytes (17 MB) copied, 0.324297 seconds, 51.7 MB/s
11:03:00w1ll14mdone :)
11:03:08linuxstbThanks for that...
11:03:19w1ll14mow yeah ... sorry the paste :)
11:03:25w1ll14mforgot for a sec.....
11:05:02 Quit fejfighter (Remote closed the connection)
11:07:00w1ll14mlinuxstb: how to mount the rsrc image ? mount -t fat -o loop rsrc.fw /mnt/ipod/ doens't work for me...
11:07:44linuxstbTry "-t vfat"
11:07:56w1ll14mwrong fstype
11:07:57GodEaterdon't you have to have done losetup first too ?
11:08:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:08:09w1ll14mlosetup ????
11:08:10Mikachumount does that for you
11:08:14linuxstbWhat does the command "file rsrc.fw" tell you?
11:08:19GodEaterI'm so out of touch ;)
11:08:27w1ll14mrsrc.fw: MPEG ADTS, layer I, v1, Monaural
11:08:55linuxstbThen you need to strip more header (or maybe less...). Look at the image in a hex editor (I use xxd).
11:09:27linuxstbHow did you extract the image?
11:09:46w1ll14mcompiled extract2g
11:09:57w1ll14mand it found those images and extracted
11:10:21linuxstbI've no idea what that program is. What does "file" tell you for the original image it extracted?
11:10:46w1ll14mlinuxstb: the same
11:10:58w1ll14mrsrc.fw.old: MPEG ADTS, layer I, v1, Monaural
11:11:17linuxstbDo the two files differ?
11:12:14w1ll14mdiff rsrc.fw rsrc.fw.old
11:12:19w1ll14mFiles rsrc.fw and rsrc.fw.old differ
11:12:29w1ll14m-rw-r−−r−− 1 root root 16780800 Feb 6 11:57 rsrc.fw
11:12:29w1ll14m-rw-r−−r−− 1 root root 16781312 Feb 6 11:57 rsrc.fw.old
11:14:11linuxstbLook inside the file for the string "MTOOL", that should be the start of the disk image (rounded to 512 bytes).
11:14:26w1ll14mlinuxstb: let me check
11:15:46w1ll14mfrom the patched file
11:15:57w1ll14mthe original: 00000E00
11:18:08Mikachuattaboy_lance_0000_voi lol
11:18:52 Join wooo [0] (
11:19:37*linuxstb afk
11:19:38w1ll14mdd if=rsrc.fw.old of=rsrc.fw skip=7
11:19:55w1ll14mmtool is now at 00000000
11:20:17w1ll14mmount ok
11:20:35w1ll14mnow i'm in /mnt/ipod
11:21:16w1ll14m<!−− Lance Armstrong attaboy voice file−−>
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11:26:25DataGhostyou just extracted rsrc+aupd?
11:26:35w1ll14mand osos
11:26:36DataGhostand I did all calculations to extract just rsrc :(
11:26:47DataGhostbut as I said it's pretty useless ;)
11:26:52w1ll14mi know ;)
11:27:08w1ll14mjust playing around
11:28:15w1ll14mhow would an ipod decrypt the encrypted files via it's hardware ?
11:28:23DataGhostjust decrypt
11:28:26DataGhostnothing special to it
11:28:30w1ll14mahh k
11:28:37DataGhostit'll then load the decrypted firmware into RAM as it would with unencrypted firmware
11:29:03DataGhostand aupd contains exactly the code to decrypt, if guesses are correct
11:29:08DataGhostbut that's just as encrypted as osos :P
11:33:07 Nick markun_ is now known as markun (n=markun@rockbox/developer/markun)
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11:34:33 Quit shnee_ (Connection timed out) project to crack it anyone ?
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11:36:51w1ll14mmaybe it's a good idea... but if you read it there, it can take upto a year
11:37:10GodEatermight take even longer
11:37:20GodEaterthere's no guarantees with brute forcing something
11:37:26GodEateror it might only take a day
11:37:42w1ll14mwhy not :)
11:37:42testybirchHi, I was searching for the disk tidy source, didn't find it in the rockbox 2.5 source. Where can I get it?
11:37:50scorcheGodEater: try to get someone to donate a few FPGAs for you ;)
11:38:08w1ll14mFPGA's ?
11:38:15GodEaterField Programmable Gate Arrays
11:38:35GodEaterscorche: I wouldn't know what to do with them when I got them :)
11:38:47w1ll14mahh k
11:39:01scorcheput them in a box, and let it get a crackin ;)
11:39:09GodEatertestybirch: get the source from svn
11:39:15GodEater2.5 is OLD
11:41:22w1ll14mGodEater: how would you set up a project ?
11:42:15GodEaterw1ll14m: wish I knew - I'm not crypto expert
11:42:25w1ll14mbecause if we would do this with all guys from rockbox and ipl etc
11:42:29w1ll14mwhaha k ;)
11:42:33w1ll14mi'm not too ;)
11:42:47w1ll14mthen we need someone who has cryptic knownledge ;)
11:42:53GodEaterdespite owning and having read Schneir's Applied Cryptography, AND Practical Cryptography
11:42:58GodEaterwhich just made my head hurt
11:43:22w1ll14mhehehehe i understand :()
11:43:33scorcheunless we had quite a few users, FPGAs would be quite a bit faster...but much more expensive
11:44:10DataGhostaupd is encrypted on every recent update, right?
11:45:07w1ll14mthen where would they store the decryption codes?
11:45:15DataGhostin the flashrom
11:45:23DataGhostand maybe I can just dump that
11:45:33w1ll14mhmm how would you dump the flash rom ?
11:45:34DataGhostI have no clue how, though. So I'll have to just try something
11:45:52DataGhostbut if I have both the encrypted and decrypted stuff, that *might* be of some help
11:46:15w1ll14mwhat kind of decrypted stuff /
11:46:18DataGhostso if it's encrypted with every recent iPod (which happens, afaik, not only on the nano)
11:46:29testybirchAre yout talking of implementing a crypt function to rockbox?
11:46:39DataGhostand if I can manage to get the algorithm used
11:46:45DataGhostthat might be the key to decoding the nano firmware
11:47:12w1ll14mok sounds good... tesybirch we are trying to decrypt firmware from nano 2g
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11:47:42w1ll14mDataghost: how would you manage to get the algorithm ?
11:48:13DataGhostI don't know
11:48:22w1ll14mhmmm then we are stuck there ;)
11:48:26DataGhostI do know that it should be a lot easier with both the encrypted and decrypted firmware
11:48:33DataGhostand as I see it now, the 5.5G aupd is just as encrypted
11:48:40DataGhostso the firmware should decrypt it
11:48:40testybirchtoo bad
11:48:50DataGhostand I should be able to dump the flashrom from my 5.5G
11:48:55DataGhostwhich should contain the algorithm/key
11:48:59w1ll14mmaybe we can get keys out of a 5.5g
11:49:08w1ll14mdamn :) we are thinking the same ;)
11:49:15DataGhostI'm just not sure what the flashrom would look like
11:49:21DerPapstlol ^
11:49:23w1ll14mhehe lol
11:49:24DataGhostnow I'm just reading from 0x00h
11:49:36DataGhostsince RAM only starts from 0x10000000h
11:49:49w1ll14mwhy don't dump the whole rom....
11:49:50DerPapstDatGhost: there is a tool for dumping the flashrom in iPL SVN
11:50:06 Join shnee_ [0] (
11:50:11DataGhostI was just reading that devblog page
11:50:25DataGhostwith the beeping-thing :) but it doesn't contain instructions
11:50:37DataGhostso I modified my loader again to just dump whatever from memory 0x00h and so on :)
11:50:50DataGhostI did get something that said 'portalplayer' so I'm not sure what I dumped exactly
11:51:12DataGhostand dumping the whole memory range would give me a 4GB file w1ll14m
11:51:29DataGhostalso, I'm doing that from a loader, not from linux. I don't think linux will let me do that
11:51:32w1ll14m:| how come ?
11:51:50DataGhostbecause if any process can dump the entire memory just like that, it can read memory from other processes
11:51:58DataGhostI think I did do it once, though.
11:52:02DataGhoston my server
11:52:04w1ll14mahh ok////
11:52:12DerPapstyou dan dump the flashrom with in iPL
11:52:22DataGhostbut that would just dump the addressable memory w1ll14m :)
11:52:26DataGhostyeah I'm going to do that DerPapst :P
11:52:47w1ll14mDataGhost: i hop it's usefull :)
11:52:57DataGhostit's at 0x20000000? :o
11:53:06DataGhostI want to see that in my loader first
11:53:10DataGhostso my work isn't useless :P
11:53:37w1ll14m..// map the Flash ROM to 0x20000000
11:53:51w1ll14mi think it is ....
11:53:56w1ll14mas of 1 till 5g
11:54:32DataGhostyeah I read that in that source
11:54:39w1ll14mme too :)
11:54:49DataGhostcrash :o
11:55:36DataGhostmy loader
11:55:41w1ll14mow ok
11:55:57w1ll14mdo ipod update their rom ?
12:02:14 Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC")
12:04:20DataGhostDerPapst linux seems to crash also
12:04:36DataGhostdid they protect the flashrom? :/
12:04:47w1ll14mhmmm could be.....
12:05:01w1ll14mbut then they can't update it either
12:05:06 Join inversions [0] (
12:05:13w1ll14munless it's a software protection
12:06:31DerPapstmaybe it's different on 5.5G iPods. i remember jeffb in #ipl managed to dump his flashrom
12:06:55DataGhostwell, reading 0x20000000 in my loader causes my iPod to reboot
12:06:57DerPapstbut he run the kernel with a ramdisk
12:07:04DataGhostand in Linux, the backlight turns off and it just hangs
12:07:42DerPapsthmm... maybe it's mapped somewhere else?
12:08:15DataGhostyes it is actually
12:08:17DataGhostreading the code
12:08:22DataGhosthe maps it to 0x20000000
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12:11:31DerPapstjeffb got the flshrom dump then frome someone elses 5.5G 30GB iPod.. so i think it sould work
12:11:50DerPapstmaybe asl a macpod owner to try it.
12:11:54testybirchIs it possible to configure the disktidy plugin for deleting specific folders and filetypes by securely overwriting them?
12:12:08testybirchlike in 3 or 4 rounds
12:12:13w1ll14mi love music so much !!!!!
12:12:49DerPapst^ lol
12:13:25w1ll14mtestybirch: i think you will need to code it
12:13:31w1ll14mif you want it
12:14:12DataGhostnah, I think I know why my loader keeps crashing
12:14:24w1ll14mwhy ?
12:14:26DataGhostit's got something to do with pointers and my knowledge about them
12:14:38testybirchAs I'm looking at the code I think this is gonna be a lot of work, never been coding c. So I just wanted to check if this is possible
12:14:43DataGhostthere we go
12:14:46DataGhostdoesn't crash anymore :)
12:14:49w1ll14mnice :)
12:14:56DerPapstdebugging pointers is fun :D
12:15:00DataGhostnow it just dumps 'garbage'
12:15:18DataGhostif it's really 8 mbit then... eh. I'm going to need a slave
12:15:24DataGhostor working disk writes in the loader :P
12:15:35DataGhostor I need to modify that program
12:16:40DataGhostand I need to learn how to calc in hex
12:16:40 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@
12:16:50DataGhost3a00 - 12 = needs_calculator :(
12:17:02DataGhostwell.. need. it's faster
12:17:15w1ll14m3988 i think
12:17:29w1ll14mow ....
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12:22:08linuxstb_DataGhost: You can use "bc" for hex arithmetic...
12:22:29DataGhostyeah, i'm just using calc now
12:22:37DataGhostbut it should be faster when I can do that in my head instead :)
12:23:35 Quit XavierGr ()
12:24:08DataGhostno I don't think it's working
12:24:13DerPapstcan anyone give me whatever i need to edit wikipages?
12:24:16DataGhostunless there's 'busybox' in the flashrom
12:24:32DataGhostor '/mnt/iPod_Control'
12:25:00 Quit wooo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:26:01linuxstb_DerPapst: What's your wiki username?
12:26:17linuxstb_Is that your real name?
12:26:28DerPapstnope it's Alexandwr Papst
12:26:38DerPapsterr.. Alexander Papst
12:26:41linuxstb_The wiki requires users to register with their real names...
12:26:54linuxstb_Or rather, the people that run the wiki do...
12:27:03DataGhosthm I thought it was Ratzinger
12:27:11DerPapstwasn't aware of that
12:27:22linuxstb_I'm pretty sure the registration page says so.
12:27:36DerPapstcan it be changed afterwards?
12:27:36 Join GodEater [0] (i=c2cbc95c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
12:27:42markunmaybe it should be in red and a bigger font?
12:27:58LinusN"Your WikiName is your real first and last name concatenated, like JohnSmith or SteveAnderson. It's not JonhS, SteveA or NinjaBoy. We will delete your registration without notice if you break this rule."
12:28:02linuxstb_markun: It's a wiki... :)
12:28:08DataGhosthmm... since 'Der' is male, it *could* translate roughly into "Mr. Papst" :P
12:28:10markunlinuxstb_: ah yes :)
12:28:11DataGhostoh first name too
12:28:30DerPapstthen better delete that account.
12:29:22*DerPapst <−− to dumb to read
12:29:38linuxstb_LinusN: Could you update ipodpatcher again with a new version? -
12:30:01LinusNDerPapst: you're not alone
12:30:37markunlinuxstb_: "Access check on TWiki.TWikiRegistration failed. Action "change": access not allowed on web."
12:31:27linuxstb_markun: Probably a good thing for that page...
12:31:31markunLinusN: can I apply for wiki super powers?
12:32:22 Quit robin0800_ ("If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you")
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12:36:34GodEatermarkun: you can always *apply* for them. Getting them granted is another matter ;)
12:38:37LinusNwe don't give out wiki "superpowers", sorry
12:38:42markuntoo bad
12:39:16 Quit JdGordon ("Leaving.")
12:39:45LinusNi am constantly amazed by peoples' inability to read or follow instructions
12:39:59 Quit testybirch ("Verlassend")
12:40:04 Quit Mikachu (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
12:40:04markunLinusN: where could I have read that?
12:40:05DerPapstsorry :-/
12:40:17LinusNDerPapst: you are one of MANY
12:40:30LinusNmarkun: that was not for you
12:40:46DerPapsthmm... but that's no comfort to me.
12:41:08markunLinusN: btw, I think the first "important notice" is intended to be bold
12:41:08 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
12:41:21LinusNyou could perhaps help us by telling me how you missed that piece of info
12:41:37DataGhostBecause nobody ever reads those things
12:41:49DataGhostusually they're standard and people like me (heh.) can do fine without them
12:41:51DerPapstprobably because <blink> is missing...
12:42:03DataGhostsince it's usually just normal rules which apply everywhere
12:42:08DataGhostbut only that thing is unusual
12:42:15markunand what are the red stars behind the input fields?
12:42:29markunnevermind :)
12:42:40DataGhostI really agree that some people *SHOULD* read those things but they won't. Unusual stuff should just be emphasized so everyone will notice them
12:42:44linuxstb_LinusN: Maybe change "Your WikiName is your..." to "Your WIki Name must be"
12:42:54DerPapstheh.. not sure how i could miss that :-(
12:43:03DataGhostanyway, let's read that page
12:43:06DataGhostto see what I'm talking about :P
12:43:09LinusNanother thing that very many miss is this: "Please do not register if you don't plan to contribute."
12:43:20DataGhostsince I haven't registered yet
12:43:25 Quit muesli__ ("ich will Khe!!!")
12:43:35DerPapstatually i wanted to edit something ;)
12:43:38DerPapsta broken link
12:43:59directhex|workmarkun, the gigabeat wiki page suggests that the cradle doesn't work. is there anything specific in the way?
12:44:11markunLinusN: perhaps a script could remove people who have registered and never contributed after a month or so?
12:44:12DataGhostoh wait
12:44:15linuxstb_DerPapst: What's the link?
12:44:19DataGhostthey are quite obvious
12:44:24LinusNmarkun: i have such a script, but i run it manually
12:44:26DataGhostI never said anything, sorry! :P
12:44:53markundirecthex|work: not really, someone just needs to do it. It's not very hard.
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12:45:11DerPapston the iPodBeta page the link that points to the ipodpatcher source in CVS
12:45:12markundirecthex|work: but I will not have access to my cradle for a few months so I can't do it
12:45:21 Quit decayedcell (Client Quit)
12:46:06w1ll14mDataGhost: could it be that rsrc has something to do with encryption of osos and aupd ?
12:46:27 Join Mikachu [0] (
12:46:27DataGhostwhy would you think it does?
12:46:30markundirecthex|work: btw, I added some support for USB on the cradle a short while ago, but it doesn't respect the line-in/usb switch
12:46:43w1ll14mbecause it's the only unencrypted file
12:46:51DataGhostand you have seen the contents
12:46:53DataGhostand the size
12:46:58DataGhostthen you'll see why it's not encrypted
12:47:10linuxstb_DerPapst: Fixed, thanks.
12:47:11w1ll14mi know what's in there ;)
12:47:30linuxstb_The rsrc is just data...
12:47:37DerPapstlinuxstb_: glad i could help ^^
12:47:38w1ll14myeah some trainer data :)
12:47:44DataGhostand big, too
12:47:48DataGhostimagine the performance hit
12:48:06linuxstb_It's not that bad on the Nano - it's a flash disk...
12:48:07DerPapstnow i don't even have to register anymore.
12:48:26DataGhostlinuxstb I mean to either decrypt it on-access or to decrypt it and keep it decrypted in RAM
12:48:30w1ll14mdataghost? how big is you rsrc
12:48:40linuxstb_DataGhost: Indeed.
12:48:41DataGhostthe one from the nano is 17MB or something like that
12:48:52DataGhostseeing that it has only 32MB of RAM... well...
12:49:00DataGhostfor 'useless' data
12:49:12w1ll14myeah indeed...
12:49:26w1ll14mthe files within are like 1 or 2 megs of data....
12:49:34w1ll14mand the resl null data i think....
12:49:43DerPapstLinusN: if you want to you can now delete my user account.
12:49:57w1ll14mas it was good compressed for binary data in a zip
12:50:23DataGhostthose are waveforms
12:50:53DerPapstand sorry for being to stuid to read :-/
12:50:55JdGordonscorche: found some moe stuff you can #ifdef HAVE_TAGCACHE... in the tree_context struct
12:51:35DerPapst...and type ^^
12:51:41*scorche thought he nabbed all of it
12:53:06JdGordonna, at the end.. there are 4 variables which (according to the comments) are only used by the db
12:53:37daurnimatorJdGordon: did your net go down?
12:53:47JdGordonnot to my knowledge
12:53:50daurnimatormy isp went down
12:53:53 Join decayedcell [0] (i=3ba7b987@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
12:54:02daurnimatorthey said "no no no - its half of australia, not us"
12:54:22daurnimator - i haven't seen anyone not on wild come back with news of outage :S
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12:55:00w1ll14mDataGhost: then we need to dump ram.....
12:55:11w1ll14mi know that psp's used tiff exploits
12:55:20w1ll14mto run homebrew code
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12:55:29DataGhostwell, I already figured that and said it in here, too
12:55:37DataGhostthe only problem is finding a way to do it :)
12:55:46w1ll14myeah indeed -__-
12:55:51linuxstb_What do you want to dump?
12:56:04w1ll14mram of a working nano 2g\
12:56:16linuxstb_OK, good luck...
12:56:22w1ll14mhehe i thought so ;)
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12:59:47JdGordonam i blind or does the dirbrowser() never actually call ft_load()?
13:00:52w1ll14mDataGhost: is there a way to run games on the nano 2g?
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13:04:41DerPapstw1ll14m: no
13:04:52w1ll14mthat sux
13:07:51 Quit hcs (Connection reset by peer)
13:08:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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13:32:29DerPapsthmm.. shouldn't be the link to daily build removed in the manual (chapter 2.2.2.)? because the main page doesn't link to it anymore too.
13:33:28DerPapstand maybe move the fonts to somewhere else...
13:39:50directhex|workmarkun, right. i could mail you my cradle if it helps
13:39:54 Quit scorche (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
13:40:15directhex|workmarkun, oh, and has the 'reset all settings' thing been moved away from hold yet? i know it was mentioned a few days ago
13:40:20 Join scorche [0] (n=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
13:43:59markundirecthex|work: I was thinking of changing it to MENU+A what do you think?
13:43:59 Quit decayedcell ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
13:44:58directhex|workmarkun, i think power+a makes more sense, and it's unlikely to ever happen by accident
13:45:31directhex|workmarkun, i'd change it myself, but i don't have a clue where such things are specified in the source tree
13:48:21GodEaterif anyone here is a libtoolfoo master I'd appreciate a PM
13:49:17markundirecthex|work: I'll change it. Maybe this weekend.
13:49:33markundirecthex|work: it's in apps/main.c starting at line 449
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13:53:38pmjdebruijnis there any chance iPod Nano second gen will be supported in the future?
13:54:09Mikachudon't hold your breath
13:54:20directhex|workpmjdebruijn, do you have super secret info about the super secret encrypted firmware?
13:54:24pmjdebruijnah ok
13:54:34pmjdebruijndirecthex|work, not really..
13:54:40*pmjdebruijn didn't know that
13:56:02peturhrmm.. in the radio screen, why does is show a slashed music note and how does one get sound back?
13:56:09*JdGordon has the very beginings of a root menu working :)
13:56:43markunJdGordon: great man!
13:57:30markunJdGordon: what's working? Can you already go to the file browser and database viewer for example?
13:57:39JdGordon... but... the current file browser is not really good for doing this, i dont know how nicely it will work
13:57:54JdGordoni can go from the root menu in and out of the file browser :D
13:57:56directhex|workmarkun, generally, what happens with donations to the project?
13:57:58JdGordonnoting else just yert
13:58:22 Quit pmjdebruijn ("Leaving")
13:58:23markundirecthex|work: buying hardware normally
13:58:29Mikachudirecthex|work: extra cans of beer at the devcon
13:58:45markunI really want to be there next time
13:59:20scorcheeven though i am largely useless, i am thinking about coming if i can scrounge up the money
14:02:29XavierGrpetur: the slashed music note I think is the radio mute
14:02:53peturXavierGr: yes, I found out play toggles mute :/
14:02:59*scorche spots a misspelled word
14:03:40*scorche spots a run-on sentence
14:03:52*scorche spots the edit button
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14:04:25*DerPapst wonders if scorche already hit the edit button...
14:04:28*XavierGr spots schorce's action frenzy!
14:05:07*scorche is aiming to beat a certain someone in the most actions statistic
14:05:32*JdGordon can go from the tree <-> db browsers :D (i _think_ )
14:05:34 Join Llorean [0] (
14:05:54*bluebrother wonders if JdGordon means a virtual folder
14:06:29DerPapstyou have to use /me ^^
14:06:40*bluebrother notices JdGordon broke the action sequence
14:07:02*Bagder thinks the channel went more nuts that usual
14:07:03scorchefor shame...
14:07:04*JdGordon isnt sure what bluebrother is talking about
14:07:27*amiconn sees lotsa violet text
14:07:28*Mikachu does the kirby dance <('')> <("<) (>"<) (>")> <('')>
14:07:32*JdGordon reads the last fw miin and understands :p
14:07:48*bluebrother considers himself nuts for starting this uni thingy years ago
14:07:48*scorche wonders if we are ignoring the past transgressions
14:08:02linuxstb_Bagder: Still here?
14:08:05*daurnimator wonders if JdGordon will do anything with a gmini 402
14:08:08*XavierGr XavierGr is happy to know that actions aren't logged!
14:08:10Bagderlinuxstb: yepso
14:08:16XavierGrbah I can't type an action
14:08:21bluebrotheractions aren't logged?
14:08:29XavierGrI think
14:08:32linuxstb_Bagder: Can you update ipodpatcher?
14:08:33JdGordoncourse they are
14:08:36Bagderthey are
14:08:40*DerPapst knows that actions _are_ logged
14:08:43*idnar thinks you people are crazy
14:08:57*bluebrother just spots a logged action in the logs :)
14:08:58*daurnimator goes to bed
14:08:59daurnimatornight all
14:09:03linuxstb_amiconn: Can you produce a new amd64 build of ipodpatcher for Bagder?
14:09:09XavierGrah then I remember wrong
14:09:14*idnar waves goodnight to daurnimator
14:10:19Bagderlinuxstb_: done
14:13:08JdGordonwoot ! yes, moving between the file and db browsers work :) except I havnt figured out how to save the current folder or resume a folder just yet
14:20:06directhex|workBagder, thanks for the link. i made a donation at the weekend, i was just curious as to what happens to it
14:20:19amiconnlinuxstb: w8
14:21:30amiconnBagder: dcc?
14:21:50Bagderdcc should work, let's try it
14:24:48directhex|workMikachu, the kirby dance must always feature a backflip - <(,,)>
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14:26:36JdGordonumm.... crap... can I change a commit message?
14:27:06JdGordonI think i may be too tired to make a decent english sentance :p
14:27:09linuxstb_You could do it with "cvs admin", I don't know about svn...
14:27:29scorcheJdGordon: sentence? ;)
14:27:48JdGordonhmm.... ok, it wasnt as bas as I thought... i forgot "-ing" in the message
14:27:58directhex|workscorche, 'word thing'!
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14:28:41Bagderamiconn: why two?
14:29:01amiconnThe first transfer was indicated as 'failed' here
14:29:32Bagderthe first one is larger here
14:30:46amiconnI sent the very same file in both cases
14:31:07amiconn-rwxr-xr-x 1 jens jens 37480 2007-02-06 14:20 ipodpatcher
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14:32:10Bagderok, that one is now on the dl site
14:33:15linuxstb_Thanks to both of you.
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14:43:29JdGordon..... has anyone had a chance to look at the menu patch on the ml yet?
14:50:18preglowwhat's the point with the HAVE_TAGCACHE stuff?
14:50:27preglowdoes anyone not want it compiled in?
14:50:52scorchepreglow: it is a way to get rombox to build
14:50:53*petur points at amiconn
14:51:24scorcheactually, amiconn has nothing to do with it
14:52:15*petur was answering [14:51] <preglow> does anyone not want it compiled in?
14:52:39*scorche thinks preglow was referring to database
14:52:41peturbut nevermind ;)
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14:54:58preglowi don't think amiconn wants that approach at all
14:55:08preglowit's been in svn for ages, yet isn't enabled in the daily builds
14:55:26scorchehe against that approach
14:55:50preglowyes, so we've got more ifdefs that aren't needed
14:55:58scorchei consider it a temporary solution for those who want rombox, but do not want to use a very old build
14:56:21preglowtrue enough
14:56:22BagderI still think the archo flash situation a total mess
14:56:34preglowme too
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14:57:25scorchewhen/if we ever get rombox working again without having to remove features, i will gladly make a patch to remove that ifdef
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14:57:35BagderI don't see that happening
14:57:46preglowi do, but very temporarily
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14:57:54Bagderif it would happen, it would only be for a very brief moment
14:58:22preglowhow much short is it anyway? the lang cleanup patch will reclaim a bit
14:58:38JdGordonand the menu stuff when is done...
14:58:40Bagderyeah, but that'll just about make it fit with very little margin
14:58:48preglowBagder: deed
14:58:49 Part norbusan
14:58:52LloreanWith the lang cleanup, and the work on the Archos bootbox, we'll probably hit it for a little while.
14:59:00preglowBagder: at which point i'm ready to say "STOP" and branch it :)
14:59:37*JdGordon also thinks tree.c could be cleaned up to save a bit
14:59:52preglowoh, lots could be cleaned up
14:59:57Bagdereverything can be cleaned up
14:59:59preglowfor some reason, people aren't falling over themselves to do it, though
15:00:10preglowi think it has to do with "fun"
15:00:32preglowor rather the lack of it
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15:02:48*scorche wonders if this conversation is over so he can retire to his bed
15:03:07JdGordonyour free to go :p
15:03:30Bagderit never ends, it just pauses!
15:03:39scorchei was just thinking that
15:03:43scorchemuch like malloc
15:03:57Bagderthat ended years ago
15:04:02LloreanI think the difference is, malloc's always been over, it just takes a while for new people to realize it.
15:04:07JdGordonexcept alot more ppl are against malloc than forking off rombox
15:04:13preglowi would like some optimsing to be done, though, rockbox is getting bloated even on non-archos platforms
15:04:14linuxstb_But nobody seems to be adding new features to the core very often anyway...
15:04:19preglowbut i'm not exactly eager to start the work myself
15:04:54 Quit perplexity (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
15:05:15scorcheLlorean: i thought of that as soon as i compared it to malloc...
15:06:02LloreanOh, anyone know what's keeping long AACs from playing, in a general sense?
15:06:24*scorche senses the topic change as a cue to go to bed
15:06:36JdGordonLlorean: global warming :D
15:07:27*scorche rushes back to say "sunspots" and then leaves again
15:08:03preglowit's snowing here, i refuse to believe this global warming bullshit!!
15:08:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:08:27amiconnBagder: Why do you think a fork would be a good idea?
15:08:36LloreanIt snowed here for the first time in a few years, after the warmest summer in a few years.
15:08:36preglowscorche: it should started again, get back
15:08:43Bagderamiconn: I think a STOP would be the good idea
15:08:47Bagderstop trying
15:08:49amiconnWhile I do want rombox back, I'd rather let rombox die instead of forking
15:08:51LloreanIt's global temperature range chart amplitude increasing.
15:08:54LloreanThat just isn't as fun to sya.
15:09:09*scorche sensed he was pinged and returns
15:09:15preglowamiconn: much the same, isn't it?
15:09:21preglowamiconn: in any case, nothing much new will be done to it
15:09:36preglowamiconn: which is pretty much the only solution to make it still be available in the future
15:10:36amiconnI like rombox, but if it doesn't have the same feature set as ordinary rockbox it doesn't make much sense. And having 2 different code bases is just ugly
15:10:39preglowLlorean: don't you live in texas?
15:10:42scorchepreglow: besides sytematically removing features as the size increases...which is a very bad idea
15:10:47Lloreanpreglow: Yes.
15:11:06preglowLlorean: i wouldn't have thought it ever snowed in texas
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15:11:21Lloreanpreglow: Texas is a big state. Up north it snows pretty regularly, down here it's different.
15:11:24preglowamiconn: of course it makes sense, it would work well for lots of people
15:12:19LloreanIt's 1,244km from North to South, apparently
15:12:29preglowLlorean: not bad...
15:13:16preglowpoint being, at some point, things will stop, and it will be impossible to make a rombox
15:13:43JdGordonamiconn: isnt the suggestion to fork and freeze rombox and only put in major bug fixes?
15:13:44LloreanWhat's the other Archos code like right now?
15:13:46linuxstb_Once the bootbox optimisations are published, do we have rombox back?
15:14:08preglowi don't think we're that many kilobytes off, so i think so
15:14:11LloreanCould we do a 2.9 for Archos-only, being Last Rombox + the new features like Database?
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15:14:43linuxstb_I was thinking the same, but 2.6...
15:14:48LloreanI thought 2.6 first.
15:15:06amiconnlinuxstb: Yes, the bootbox improvements alone should bring rombox back even on the fm/v2
15:15:11LloreanThen I though that Rockbox has changed quite a bit since 2.5, though I don't know how many are in Archos.
15:15:23amiconnlangv2 and menus will give a bit more room
15:17:03scorcheamiconn: but, what would you suggest after it breaks again?...let it die as you referenced before?
15:17:47linuxstb_It seems to me that it has to die eventually, but we're not there yet...
15:18:55LloreanI think it'd be better to kill it humanely as it were, saying "The current feature set is good enough" then trying to debate in the future if we can squeeze one more thing in here, or there.
15:19:15LloreanAs it is, we have upcoming opts that will let it fit, and can let it be finished up.
15:19:15 Quit idnar (Nick collision from services.)
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15:19:39LloreanBut if we get to a point where it stops fitting again, then you have to make the choice to roll back to a fitting version and say that's it, or hope you can find a new way to squeeze it in.
15:21:16 Nick idnar_ is now known as idnar (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
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15:28:50 Part Llorean
15:31:25LinusNok, if anyone joins the channel and screams about not being able to log in to the wiki, send them in my direction
15:31:41LinusNi have deleted ~150 accounts
15:31:46 Quit pill (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:32:39LinusNsome because of bad wikinames, but most because they haven't contributed anything since they registered the account
15:32:58*DerPapst looks away...
15:33:12LinusNyours too :-)
15:33:18DerPapstthanks ;)
15:34:29DerPapstto bad <blink> is only implemented in netscape... that is the only thing to make sure that everybody is looking at it :D
15:35:24 Quit inversions (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:35:59LinusNDerPapst: i don't think even that would help
15:36:50 Quit muesli__ ("ich will Khe!!!")
15:37:02LinusNpeople just don't read documentation very well
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15:37:35LinusNlike this guy who posted to the forum recently about how he failed to install rockbox on his ipod 80gb
15:38:10LinusNit says on 3 different places on the site that ipod 80gb is not supported
15:38:28LinusNeven the installation instructions say it!
15:38:33DerPapsti really feel stupid because of that. i wonder myself often enough why it is so hard for many poeple just to do what the instructionis say (over at
15:38:51LinusNit's amazing really
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15:39:43amiconnDerPapst: <blink> is implemented the wrong way - it makes the text invisible 50% of the time
15:40:27DerPapstthat the wikipage about the 5.5G i've added a big disclaimer (<font size="+1">) that ipl is not working on the 80GB ipod.. one day later someone complains that the instructions don't work on his 80GB ipod :D
15:41:10DerPapstthe fist that sould be a on.. don't know that happend ^^
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15:41:23*DerPapst gives up
15:41:37LinusNanother interesting phenomenon is the "simplified instructions" some people put together, that are often at least twice as long as the original ones
15:42:42LinusNthese are the "Detailed Instructions To Compiling":
15:43:00LinusNand the simple ones:
15:45:30 Join pill [0] (
15:45:53DerPapstthe simplified instructions are mostly filled with tons of details to make sure even the dumbest person is able to do whatever they describe.. but most of them fail anyway ^^
15:46:31Bagder"too many instructions" / GoldenQuotes
15:46:35 Nick Soap_ is now known as Soap (n=Soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
15:46:55directhex|workDerPapst, something i've learnt at my job: you can have postgraduates at the most renowned university in the world who are confused by the idea of stairs. never underestimate how stupid the average moron is
15:46:59LinusNand remember, those instructions are tailored for the people who don't tend to read docs
15:47:53courtcInstructions for the people who read the docs, and instructions for those who need packaged docs. ;)
15:48:19directhex|workif it's not an installshield installer, it's too complicated!
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15:49:30LinusNsometimes i think some things should stay complicated, so the person is forced to try to understand things
15:49:43LinusNlike applying patches and compiling
15:51:07courtcThe problem with that is the people who give up, come in here and ask how to do it. ;)
15:51:20LinusNlinuxstb: is it possible to detect ipod 80gb in the ipodpatcher?
15:51:26DerPapstthatswhy i suggested to make installing rockbox on the ipod harder. it's too easy. 2 commands in cmd and then drag and drop. It has to be at least as hard as installing iPL ;)
15:51:56LinusNcourtc: then we make it harder to join the channel :-P
15:52:04courtcYes. installing IPL is *way* hard. ;)
15:52:08GodEaterLinusN: yes of course it's possible to detect it. linuxstb is just an optimist that you'll get it working before he has to prevent ipodpatcher working on one.
15:52:21LinusNGodEater: haha
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15:53:12DerPapstLinusN: yes it can detect the 80GB iPod.
15:53:22amiconncourtc: Installing ipl is one thing... having it working is completely different
15:53:29*DerPapst wasn't fast enogh... as always.
15:53:44GodEaterDerPapst: I even typed more than you did ;)
15:53:55amiconnWhen I got my mini G2, I first installed ipl on it. Worked exactly once, after a reboot it didn't like me anymore
15:54:02courtcI personally have never had a problem with IPL. That's why I don't attempt to make things easier.
15:54:36amiconnThen I wiped everything with the ipod restore tool, and started porting rockbox
15:54:41DerPapsti'm not a fast typer... and my typingspeed is even worse if i have to "speak" english
15:54:51amiconnWithin 10 hours i HAD ROCKBOX UP AND RUNNING, AND PLAYING MUSIC
15:55:02amiconnoops, sorry for caps
15:55:28directhex|worki don't see the appeal of running linux on $foodevice for the sake of it
15:55:36GodEaterDerPapst: you're forgiven then ;)
15:55:51DerPapstGodEater: Thanks :D
15:55:57courtcdirecthex|work: "for the sake of it" is always debatable.
15:56:26courtcI use IPL for the features it provides, not because it's nifty.
15:56:33linuxstb_LinusN: Yes, ipodpatcher could probably detect 80GB models...
15:57:17GodEaterlinuxstb: didn't I give the right answer ? ;)
15:57:36linuxstb_Yes, but I missed it... You used my other nick.
15:57:43GodEateroh excuse me
15:57:57DerPapstsame here. iPL worked fist on my 3G iPod and then on the 80GB one (more or less).
15:57:59linuxstb_It wasn't highlighted...
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15:58:23GodEaterI'll endeavour to engage my psychic powers and work out which nick you're sat in front of next time
15:58:48linuxstb_Thanks - I would appreciate it :)
16:00:16*GodEater is tempted to submit a patch for ipodpatcher that fills their console with *really* big blinking letters that generally insults them if they try to use it on an 80GB iPod
16:01:02*DerPapst is going to remove that patch then...
16:02:07DerPapstor maybe not...
16:02:35DerPapstprobably not...
16:02:42*DerPapst walks away
16:02:55*petur looks outside and sees it is snowing :)
16:03:01Mikachuwhat country?
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16:04:22GodEaterah it's good to be finally able to update e17 at work again
16:04:46MikachuGodEater: are they going to release any time soon?
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16:05:32GodEaterMikachu: hahahahahaha
16:05:44 Quit shnee_ (Success)
16:06:25Mikachui'll take that as a maybe
16:06:28GodEaterMikachu: seriously though - it's worth looking at now
16:06:40GodEaterit's not crashed on me in months
16:06:43GodEaterand is very usable
16:06:56directhex|workit's good enough for ps3 linux
16:07:04directhex|workof course, that's not neccessarily a compliment
16:07:32Mikachui currently find myself the maintainer of another wm, so i probably won't
16:07:46GodEaterwhich one ?
16:07:51Mikachuopenbox :)
16:07:56*Mikachu likes box
16:08:06GodEaternice - I ran that for a while
16:08:56GodEaterI think I've run most of the *box wms at one time or another
16:10:02directhex|workxfce4's the only wm i've ever really liked. but these days i'm back on gnome, since i have cycles to kill & like some of the integrated features
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16:10:24Mikachu(openbox works fine as a wm with gnome)
16:10:30tchanIf anyone is in a wiki typo-fixing mood: The bottom of the GigabeatFXPort page says "Bootloader with bootsplpash" and that should probably be "Bootloader with bootsplash"
16:12:08GodEaterdirecthex|work: try beryl then :)
16:12:29linuxstb_tchan: Done.
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16:13:22directhex|workGodEater, using it on the laptop & at home
16:13:39GodEateryou really do have cycles to kill then :)
16:13:41directhex|workGodEater, i'd really prefer the predictable development cycle of compiz, but it doesn't bloody work
16:13:53GodEaterberyl looks pretty though
16:16:30directhex|worki like the expose rip-off
16:16:36directhex|workand the window previews in the taskbar
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16:19:47GodEaterbtw - I never heard whether you're going to hunt down and kill me for recommending the gigabeat port ? ;)
16:21:49directhex|workit makes for a smoother game of Doom than dreamcast-linux
16:22:18GodEateris that a good thing ?
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16:22:27*linuxstb_ doesn't understand the last post here -
16:23:31webguest66I know C, and wanna begin developing rockbox. Where to start?
16:24:58DataGhostlol some people from the gathering of tweakers (dutch) want to create a flashmob-lanparty at a mcdonalds :P
16:24:58 Quit webguest66 (Client Quit)
16:25:00GodEaterlinuxstb_ : that's because you don't speak idioteze
16:25:08DataGhostbest idea ever :P
16:25:20directhex|worklinuxstb_, remember i said some people are confused by stairs? that guy's confused by "apart from"
16:25:36linuxstb_I just don't know how to reply...
16:25:49linuxstb_(so I won't).
16:26:11*linuxstb_ just read GodEater's reply... That's about all we can say.
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16:26:48GodEater"I heard" is not the same as "it says here on the"
16:27:38*w1ll14m slaps his head against the monitor and screems, GoedEater you are right!!!
16:27:49linuxstb_That text should probably be reversed though, to be the same as the front page.
16:28:02BagderI bet the "support" he speaks of is that ipodpatcher shows that output he showed
16:28:13w1ll14mBadger: probaply ;)
16:29:15directhex|workdon't worry, youy'll still be blamed & expect legal threats
16:30:12GodEaterperhaps we should change the word "all" to "most" as well
16:30:54w1ll14mi'm so happy i own a 5g ;)
16:31:12*Soap thinks tucoz deduced mystik's thought process correctly.
16:32:20w1ll14mdoes anyone here has a spare harddisk?? i harddisk broke today :|
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16:33:46Soapdo you really want to pay shipping on a sub 40GB drive?
16:34:18w1ll14msoap: hehe, probably not ;)
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17:30:45webguest32What is the mAh setting for rockbox on a 5th gen video ipod
17:31:41bluebrotherit's for calculating the remaining run time
17:31:48bluebrotherit's just for display.
17:32:27webguest32ok, i changed mine, and it turns itself off after 4-8 min. what is yours set on
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17:32:46bluebrotherthe default should match a default battery
17:32:52markunwebguest32: it has nothing to do with the shutdown
17:33:00bluebrotherthe battery level is read out from the battery voltage
17:33:05webguest32what is the number it shoud be on
17:33:05bluebrothernot from some setting
17:33:14bluebrotheruse the default value
17:33:25Lloreanbluebrother: Right now the number it's on is meaningless because there's no calibration for the iPods.
17:33:28markunwebguest32: you can set it to whatever you want, it doesn't matter
17:33:33webguest32what is the default value
17:33:43bluebrotherI don't know the default value
17:34:06bluebrotherno ipod at my side
17:34:35webguest32why isnt there a song list
17:34:45webguest32at the database menu
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19:47:24argonel should be added to on the wiki
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20:18:49LhademmorRockbox to iPod nano is very unstable
20:19:29Soapwhat kind of problems are you having, Lhademmor?
20:19:48LhademmorThe iPod is simply suddenly not responding to anything
20:19:59LhademmorTried restarting it - but it's not working
20:20:09desowinselect+menu ?
20:20:28SoapIf your iPod won't restart - you will be the first.
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20:20:58LhademmorIt won't show anything at all. Completely dead. Maybe it's a hardware-failure?
20:21:19SoapThe Nano behaves oddly on drained batteries.
20:21:37SoapPlug it in. Leave it alone for half an hour to sixty minutes.
20:21:40desowintry to put on hold, remove hold, then press select and while holding select press menu and keep it pressed until it reboots
20:21:42LhademmorBut my recharger doesn't work either
20:22:12SoapWhy do you say your recharger doesn't work, Lhademmor?
20:22:12LhademmorCorrection: My recharger works normally, but the iPod doesnt' seem to react
20:22:28SoapOk, That is because Nanos act odd when fully discharged.
20:22:40LhademmorSoap, now that I think about it, it has been a while since I last recharged the battery... Pehaps that IS why
20:22:41SoapIt is not going to appear that it is charging when you first plug it in. Trust me.
20:23:06SoapPlug it in - leave it alone for 30-60 minutes - have a cup of coffee and read the newspaper.
20:23:16LhademmorProblem is: iPod + Rockbox + recharger (not PC) = lots of weird rebooting
20:23:36SoapThe brand-spanking-new versions of Rockbox have that fixed.
20:23:52SoapIf you are worried about the reboot cycle on your older build - plug your Nano into the computer.
20:24:11SoapIt isn't like there is a physical hard drive in there to wear out from 60 minutes of reboot cycling.
20:25:21SoapRegardless, plug your Nano in - leave it alone for 30-60 minutes (don't peek!) - come back - if it still appears dead toggle the hold switch to the on (red) position and then back off. THEN attempt to force a reset with the "Menu"+"Select" button combo.
20:25:45Lhademmorok. Will do.
20:26:02SoapIF (and it is a big if) at the end of all that your Nano still won't turn on - repeat the procedure.
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20:27:32SoapYou might need to repeat the procedure a couple of times - and remember to attempt the "Menu"+"Select" combo for 30-45 seconds at a time - with steady fingers.
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20:35:29preglownanos behave weirdly even on full battery
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20:35:46preglowbattery can be full up, and it'll pretend to be empty and then just hang, waiting for select+menu reboot
20:35:50preglownot rockbox' fault
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20:36:05Soapwhat do you expect? You pack that much fun into such a tiny package and crazy things are boud to happed! ;)
20:36:26Soap*happen even
20:36:29preglowwell, they could have made do without the programming errors!
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20:47:02ZUNE_GuyAnyone aware of a ZUNE initiative? I just checked the "Active Projects" list on the site, and it's not listed...
20:47:34desowinyou would like to lead ZUNE development ?
20:47:38preglowi know what the zune is, but not the intiative
20:48:28ZUNE_GuyI am just eager to hit my zune with something new - I may be able to help
20:48:57ZUNE_GuyI just dont want to experiment on mine, as I will most likely end up with a brick...
20:49:32preglowwell, first and foremost we need docs on the hardware
20:49:44preglowstarting a port blindly will almost certainly just stop
20:50:02preglowso far i don't think anyone has expressed any interest in porting to zune
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20:50:16ZUNE_GuyThere is lots of info out there on the platform
20:50:43Slasherihehe, i am just adding runtime "function" support to tagnavi config so very simple code could be interpreted by the database browser (to convert track length to minutes and hours for example)
20:51:08*preglow waves goodbye to rombox again :)
20:52:12ZUNE_Guypreglow - Whats involved in getting a port started? There is a community out there that is interested in this, at ZuneScene the forums are talking like this is already well underway
20:52:18Slasheribut that's fortunately quite simple addition. user is not allowed to define own variable names, just use a few registers for function parameters and global return values
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20:52:54preglowZUNE_Guy: what is involved is quite simply just someone wanting to do it
20:53:16preglowwhoever can program and has a zune is welcome
20:54:03preglowzune support has been mentioned from time to time, and so far, no one wanting to start a port has stepped forward
20:54:10preglowwe'd be happy to help whoever wants to start
20:54:37ZUNE_GuyI think the reason for the hesitation is that lots of users have no skills
20:54:59ZUNE_GuyAns the ZUNE security
20:55:12preglowpeople with skills are definitely needed, heh
20:55:33preglowbut no, developers don't start a port unless they're interested in doing so, and so far, no one interested enough have shown themselves
20:56:31zylcheOhh, I got onto rockbox's diagnostic tools accidently when heading home, how do I get it up again? :P
20:57:01SoapRockbox's or Apples? zylche
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21:04:23preglowrockbox has diagnostic tools?
21:04:28preglowthe debug menu?
21:04:30preglowif so, just exit it
21:04:31preglowno problems
21:04:33LhademmorWhat language is Rockbox written in?
21:04:54*zylche is asking how to get back into it, and it may have been apples, but I doubt it..
21:05:18preglowLhademmor: mostly c, some assembler
21:05:33zylchesome beer as well
21:06:44*preglow has an oatmeal stout he intends to drink
21:07:59*Lhademmor would love to contribute
21:08:20Lhademmor...but it may be an idea to learn programming first...
21:08:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:08:50zylchewe're all talking about drinks, not programming.
21:09:08Juice^is it possible to build rockbox with ?
21:10:00zylcheI doubt it would be very stable, but...
21:10:07Lhademmorhell, I could probably supply beer as well
21:10:36LearIf you mean visual studio, then no.
21:10:41*petur uses as editor ;)
21:11:22zylcheLhademmor, whisky or vodka, beer is for the lowlyslimes.
21:11:43*zylche uses notepad as a surgical tool.
21:11:50*petur throws a beer bottle at zylche
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21:12:10LhademmorI don't think I am confident enough to use vodka. Last time I ended up dancing with a 50-year-old German who I've never met before
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21:13:49LhademmorIs this project collaborating with ?
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21:17:15peturrb borrows code from them
21:17:44preglowso yes, in a way, heh
21:17:48preglowwe're on good terms with them
21:18:22preglowzylche: whisky i can enjoy, but vodka? that's just alcohol...
21:18:26preglowbeer is superior to * anyway
21:18:31LhademmorGreat. I'm tired of project that fork off each other lots of times so it ends up a jungle
21:19:03zylchebeer tastes bad to some people, at least with vodka and whisky you can feel it somewhat.
21:19:59*preglow likes all beer
21:20:18preglowi've yet to taste one i don't like, and i'm starting to work up quite a count
21:21:01Lhademmor - wow....
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21:24:56*n1s drank lots of vodka, "punsch", bailies, absinthe and beer this weekend ;-)
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21:29:32n1sbeing a swedish studen I have quite a reputation to live up to...
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21:30:21Soapa "proper" swedish student would ship absinthe to all his American counterparts.
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21:31:24SoapLlorean: Is bootloader error -4 the "kiss of death" on Sansa phisher is making it out to be on the forums?
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21:32:27midgeyi thought -4 meant a corrupt rockbox file
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21:34:18LloreanSoap: Error -4 is when you try to load the Original Firmware, but the OF.bin is either not there or not valid.
21:34:32LloreanSoap: Booting into recovery mode will work for it, though.
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22:00:40dune2linuxstb: hi, i eard that you've done some improvement in mpegplayer
22:01:11dune2linuxstb: can i help ?
22:01:35perl|workyay go dune2!
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22:02:19linuxstb_Ah, co-incidences...
22:02:39*linuxstb_ just read the log.
22:03:04linuxstb_dune2: All help is welcome. Have you done any work yet?
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22:03:39linuxstb_I can give you my current patch if you want, but it seems to be introducing bugs - at least on my ipod, I'm getting corrupted audio.
22:04:14zylcheHave you tried setting it's alignment to good?
22:04:20dune2linuxstb: nope :) with my co-worker, we tried to add rebuffering ... but the main loop is to be change cause of the pointer initialised inside
22:04:54 Quit Thundercloud (Connection timed out)
22:05:13dune2linuxstb: i can test your patch and see what i can do and discuss with you ;)
22:07:08linuxstb_dune2: I haven't touched the buffering, so I'm happy for you to rework that however you want. But the most important thing is to try and be efficient, and not do any memcpying if we can avoid it.
22:08:28dune2linuxstb: yes i understand, what we tryed, is to add rebuffering in get_next_data
22:09:54linuxstb_My idea was that the main thread should do the buffering, not the video/audio threads, which is where get_next_data is called from IIRC.
22:10:49dune2linuxstb: but i think that loading next data (by changing curr_packet and curr_packet_end and loading data) in get_next_data is not good ... cause it's too late and may lag ... we should preload in second buffer and swap it in get_next_data on need
22:12:02linuxstb_I'm not sure I understand what you mean. There should be one large ringbuffer containing the input MPEG data, and the audio and video threads process the data directly from that buffer. When the ringbuffer reaches the low watermark (e.g. 2MB), the main thread should refill it.
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22:15:54preglowlinuxstb_: you need to shorten the name of ipodpatcher down to "ip" or something to make the installation even more effortless, typing the command name is soon all that is left ;)
22:16:07dune2i did not see it like that ;) but it's a solution :) ... my idea was : you always have 2 buffers ... use buffer[0] while buffer[1] is preloaded ... then when get_next_data go underrun, you change buffer[0] with buffer[1] ... then the main thread preload next chunk in buffer[0] and wait for get_next_data to go again on buffer[0] ... (the buffer index 0,1 can be done with the bit0 of paquet counter, so we need preload_chunk_counter and a get_next_data_c
22:16:28linuxstb_But doesn't that mean the disk is constantly spinning?
22:17:26linuxstb_preglow: :) Next step is to embed the bootloader binaries....
22:17:56dune2only by chunk of 2Mb for example .... (so if 2Mbytes is 2min ... it will spin only the 2min ....) the buffer size is important ....
22:19:21midgeyanyone opposed to me committing my rockboy changes?
22:20:04linuxstb_midgey: I think that would be a time for celebration - no-one has touched it for months.
22:20:15midgeywell then, hurray!
22:22:30phrozen77_hi guys :) any news on the 5thgen 80gb ipods? *ducksforcover*
22:23:03Bagderwe call it 5.5gen
22:23:16linuxstb_dune2: It seems your approach will require almost twice the number of disk spinups than a ringbuffer?
22:23:17phrozen77_sorry, forgot about that :)
22:23:41midgeyphrozen77_: we know the problem and its being worked on, but its not an easy fix
22:23:53linuxstb_Apple call it something like "Fifth Generation with Video (Late 2006)"....
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22:24:27phrozen77_midgey: i know - just wanted to know if there was some sort of breakthrough or so
22:24:40dune2linuxstb: in all the case, spinup of hdd will be proportional to the ratio time_to_decode_chunck/time_to_preload_next_chunk
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22:26:56dune2linuxstb: to minimize hdd spinup , we just need to prepare the highest double_buffer_size we can do ....
22:27:48Bagderdune2: well, the better approach would be to use a single circular buffer, just like we do for the plain audio case. When there's only N seconds left of data, fill the buffer again...
22:28:07 Quit kubiix (Client Quit)
22:28:17Bagderit is almost like your "double" description, only with variable borders
22:28:44dune2Bagder: ok ... i'm going to look how to do that ....
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22:28:52linuxstb_dune2: Unless I'm misunderstanding, your approach reads a maximum of 14MB on each disk spinup, whereas a ringbuffer would be able to read 28MB minus our safety margin.
22:29:05linuxstb_(assuming a 28MB total buffer).
22:30:29dune2yes but if you wait having 2MB for example, you won't be able to preload next 28MB ... cause you are decoding the last 2MB and cannot ovewrite those 2MB ...
22:30:44Bagderno, then you read 26 fresh MB
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22:31:14Bagderif the safety margin is 2MB
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22:31:46dune2yep but at the last 2MB of 26MB ... you will load only 24MB ? (because the last 2MB is now inside the 28MB buffer ... and so on)
22:32:01Bagdera circular buffer
22:32:10Bagderwhen you have 2MB left, you load 26 fresh
22:32:34Bagderthen when the 2MB is done you continue in on the 26MB chunk
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22:33:04lostlogicexcept that that separation is imaginary and the buffer is treated as continuous
22:33:06Bagder| −−−− 26MB −−−−−− | −−- 2MB −−−− |
22:33:13dune2mmm yep i understand the circular buffer ... i wanted to avoid address calculation
22:33:51Bagderwhat's the downside with "address calculation"?
22:35:08 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
22:35:09dune2when scanning for next data, you need to keep address inside the buffer address space ... so need to round the address permanently ...
22:36:19linuxstb_Yes, the wraparound point is the troublesome bit. Using a guard-buffer similar to Rockbox's audio playback code will help there.
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22:36:53dune2which mean many modification in buffer scanning ... in my idea at the beginning was keeping buffer fixed size scanning swapping buffers when necessary :)
22:37:20amiconn_Ring buffers aren't really difficult
22:37:29dune2yes i agree :)
22:37:32amiconn_Our playback engines all do ring buffering
22:37:44linuxstb_I agree it's more work, but it's "the right thing".
22:37:52amiconn_(hwcodec, swcodec, and even the minimalistic one in wavplay.rock)
22:37:53dune2i agree :)
22:38:47amiconn_Ring buffers can be made even a bit more efficient than what the simplified description by Bagder suggests
22:39:29amiconn_If you start reading when there are 2MB left in the buffer, and you load fresh data in chunks, you can load more than just the 26MB
22:40:07amiconn_...since filling takes a while, and when reaching the end, a part of the 2MB remainder is already used up, ready for overwriting
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22:40:47dune2if you consider that the loading time for 26MB > decoding time for 2MB yes :)
22:41:13amiconn_Not necessarily
22:41:15Bagderwell, you need to adjust accordingly
22:41:40Bagderbut you do decode some of that 2MB while the 26MB is loading
22:42:10dune2yes ... you do the read(actu -> end)+read(begin -> actu-2MB)+read(actu-2MB -> actu)
22:42:46dune2this should optimize preload up to the real actu position
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22:44:41dune2the "read(actu -> end)+read(begin -> actu-2MB)" is for wraparround ring_buffer
22:45:24dune2mmmm ok ok ... i'm going to look like that :)
22:47:31Bagderminimizing the number of disk spinups needed is a key to good runtime
22:47:47amiconnpreglow: Why does the ipodpatcher command name need shortening?
22:47:51dune2yep i understand .. and agree :)
22:48:05preglowamiconn: i was just joking
22:48:09amiconnYou can usually use ip<tab>
22:48:19preglowamiconn: regarding linuxstb's last commit removing the need from -scan
22:52:25Bagderwith that rockboy commit, I forsee a new bunch of bricked sansas ;-)
22:52:54 Join matsl [0] (
22:53:02linuxstb_BTW, can people test ipodpatcher? I don't want to release it without at least a little more testing...
22:53:19Soapwhat sort of timetable are you needing the tests in linuxstb_ ?
22:53:37SoapI'm 8 hours into a 20+ hour runtime test...
22:54:24Soapso, with sleep and all I won't be able to test for 24 hours or so...)
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22:54:48Bagderman, you need to cancel that sleep when linuxstb calls! ;-P
22:55:23 Quit Kitt0s (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:55:23linuxstb_Soap: No rush...
22:55:45Soapis it on FS, or do you host the patch?
22:56:06linuxstb_It's in SVN.
22:56:37linuxstb_Can you compile it yourself, or do you want a binary? It compiles easily in cygwin now.
22:57:00SoapI should be able to.
22:57:02Soapone sec
22:57:18linuxstb_Just type 'make" in tools/ipodpatcher/
22:58:10midgeybuild table may be stuck...
22:58:51Soapthat was fast. Very fast considering how slow my computer is.
22:59:10DerPapstcool... ipodpatcher is now too easy :D
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22:59:48Bagdermidgey: there's one server being very slow apparently...
23:00:16linuxstb_Which reminds me, does anyone have any tips for how to embed the bootloaders? Is there a "standard" way to incorporate binary data?
23:02:33Bagderthere's no standard way I'm aware of
23:02:41preglowbin2h? :V
23:03:03Bagderbin2array rather
23:03:25dune2linuxstb: i'm looking at the code ... but catch lot's of problems ... you have one memcopy in get_next_data which is to be cut in case of laking data (and avoid error in memcopy which end the stream) ... then need to do lots of job in mpeg_decoding and mad_decoding du to wrapping address ....
23:05:10dune2linuxstb: i continue to look .... ;)
23:05:15linuxstb_You probably know the buffering code better than I do - I didn't write that part of mpegplayer, it was a patch someone else wrote, which I included and then added audio decoding to.
23:05:54 Join Llorean [0] (n=Llorean@rockbox/administrator/Llorean)
23:06:08DerPapstlinuxstb: one thing.. if i now just type ipodpatcher without any args it doesn't display all possible commands anymore. instead it scans for ipods and if no ipod is found it give out 2 error nessages.. which are nearly the same.
23:06:36linuxstb_DerPapst: Yes, I've noticed that..
23:08:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:08:51linuxstb_Apart from that, is it working OK for you?
23:09:12DerPapststill testing...
23:10:05 Join Kitt0s [0] (
23:10:36DerPapstodd.. i'm root on my windows box and it refuses to open the disk...
23:12:34 Quit funky ("leaving")
23:12:41DerPapstipodpatcher 0.6 doesn't complain
23:12:51DerPapstnot sure about 0.7
23:13:08linuxstb_What does it say?
23:14:41DerPapst[INFO] Ipod found - Video (aka 5th Generation) ("winpod") - disk device 1
23:14:41DerPapst Error opening disk: Zugriff verweigert
23:14:47DerPapstpermission denied
23:16:15linuxstb_Is that when you try to write, or just the initial scan?
23:16:40 Quit Wiwie ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
23:17:04DerPapstipodpatcher 0.7 doesn't work at all o.O
23:18:06linuxstb_So the macpod commit broke it for you?
23:19:16DerPapsti think the ipodpatcher.exe on the download server is somehow corrupt. (ver. 0.7)
23:20:25linuxstb_My copy is 150e07cfdead9afcee0249a59a328973 ipodpatcher.exe
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23:20:46DerPapstbad translated from a windows popup window: The NTVDM-CPU hat detected a not valid command. CS:0717 IP:9dac OP:ff ff ff ff ff...
23:21:14Bagder150e07cfdead9afcee0249a59a328973 win32/ipodpatcher.exe
23:21:17DerPapstnot sure if i have md5 on my box.. wait..
23:21:25Bagder(on the dl server)
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23:24:04DerPapstd99c1198a62375b8d140ae45d3ef6b9b for me
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23:25:15DerPapstheh.. my fault... sorry ;)
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23:27:38DerPapstok... about ipodpatcher 0.8svn again... if i don't use [device] i get that permission denied error. otherwise not.
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23:28:05webguest30can someone help me with rockbox?
23:28:07DerPapsts/otherwise not/otherwise i get it
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23:28:20Big_MacHey guys
23:28:23bluebrotherwebguest30, no, unless you ask ;-)
23:28:29webguest30i did?
23:28:37bluebrotherno ... just ask here.
23:28:37webguest30I asked if anyone can help me with rockbox?
23:28:47webguest30can anyone help me with rockbox?
23:28:52Bagderjust ask
23:28:53DerPapstno sorry
23:28:55bluebrothersure, but you don't need to ask that. Just ask your question
23:28:57Bagderand you'll find out
23:28:58TrueJournalswebguest30: not if you don't ask...
23:29:01webguest30it says...
23:29:06bluebrotherif someone knows an answer you'll get one
23:29:18webguest30rockbox could not be found
23:29:22webguest30on the ipod
23:29:25webguest3030 gb, 5 g.
23:29:45TrueJournalsdid you copy the .rockbox folder and rockbox.ipod file to your iPod?
23:29:46bluebrotherhave you extracted to the root of your player?
23:30:07webguest30i got the 2 files required from the manual the PDF one.
23:30:15webguest30i put them in the rockbox folder in C:
23:30:27webguest30i put in the ipodpatcher and that
23:30:37webguest30i supposably load them in and it doesnt work/
23:30:40*DerPapst thinks it's funny that peope ask if they may ask a question.. but haven't asked whether they may ask if it is ok to ask a question.... (recursive) :D
23:30:44TrueJournalsLet's start out with this: did you follow all the manual instructions to the letter
23:30:44bluebrotheryou need to copy the folder .rockbox and rockbox.ipod manually to the device
23:30:45Soapwebguest30: are you "PerryCaryk" in the forums?
23:30:52 Quit petur ("ZzzZzzz")
23:31:28bluebrotherdid you actually *copy* the files to the player or only to the installation folder on your hard disk?
23:31:29SoapI wrote a detailed reply to your query in the forums...
23:31:40 Quit OgMaciel ("Ex-Chat")
23:31:56webguest30copy them to the ipod... as in drag them in or just simply use the cmd?
23:32:04bluebrotherdoesn't matter.
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23:32:21bluebrotherthe root of your ipod is supposed to have a folder .rockbox and a file rockbox.ipod afterwards.
23:32:22webguest30so I can just drag them in through the my computer onto my ipod and bam it should work?
23:32:26hachitrac is down, is there any other system that replaced it?
23:32:36bluebrotherhow you manage to get them there is irrelevant
23:32:37Big_Macsvn co svn:// rockbox (if you have no username, try anonymous) <- Are they talking about a forum username or wiki or what
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23:32:42hachicause it's been down for like 5 days now
23:32:57TrueJournalsBig_Mac: SVN username... only really needed if you want to commit
23:33:17Big_MacAh ok so anonymous will be fine for now right
23:33:28bluebrotheryou don't need to provide a username
23:33:29TrueJournalsactually... i've never been asked for a username when using SVN
23:33:35bluebrotherunless you'll try to commit
23:33:39linuxstb_DerPapst: When you don't use [device], does ipodpatcher detect your ipod correcty?
23:33:41dune2ok ... see you tomorrow all !
23:33:50webguest30ok so i drag the .rockbox folder and rockbox.ipod folder on ipod
23:33:50n1shachi: What are you talking about? rockbox uses flyspray
23:33:51 Quit dune2 ("Sleep in progress ... please, wait a while during dreams syncing ...")
23:34:07TrueJournalswebguest30: yes
23:34:17TrueJournalsThe BASE FOLDER of your iPod, yes
23:34:24hachin1s, oh! dangit... I'm looking at ipl... sorry about that
23:34:32DerPapstlinuxstb: yes.
23:35:05hachihow do you get to the repository browser in flysparay?
23:35:12DerPapstalso without device it is detected correctly but the permission is denied.
23:35:12webguest30do any of you guys have teamspeak to help me out? it would be alot easier.
23:35:36TrueJournalswebguest30: it's really not that complicated... just drag the .rockbox folder and rockbox.ipod file onto your iPod
23:35:46webguest30i did.
23:35:53linuxstb_hachi: flyspray is the task tracker. The source code is in SVN.
23:36:12bluebrotherhachi, I guess you're referring to viewvc
23:36:14webguest30so i dragged them on it still didnt make a differenec? should I restart it?
23:36:16hachilinuxstb_: so you guys don't have a browser like trac or web-svn
23:36:17TrueJournalswebguest30: Then it should work fine... just make sure the files are there... maybe download rockbox again and see if it works
23:36:26TrueJournalswebguest30: try restarting
23:36:41Soapwebguest30: you are not providing detailed descriptions of the problems you are encountering. I feel quite strongly that I asked of you all the pertinent questions in the forums - in a very timely manner. If you would answer the questions / follow the steps I already laid out for you we would probably be done by now.
23:36:49linuxstb_hachu: Yes, but not in flyspray.
23:36:56DerPapsthachi: something like that?
23:37:17DerPapsthehe.. again.. not fast enough :P
23:37:22webguest30wow still nothing.
23:37:26webguest30i dragged them on the ipod.
23:37:36webguest30restarted it and it is still ipod menu.
23:37:36bluebrotherok. Where exactly put you the files?
23:37:40webguest30on my ipod
23:37:42TrueJournalswebguest30: read Soap's post on the forum
23:37:49bluebrotherand *where* on the ipod?
23:37:50webguest30i did.
23:37:51TrueJournalswebguest30: sounds like you didn't install the bootloader
23:37:57 Join Eibutz [0] (i=57ea5b5a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:37:59Soaphe has the bootloader
23:38:06Soapit is what gave him the error.
23:38:11bluebrotherhave you created a folder called "root"?
23:38:16SoapHe skipped step 2.2.2 of the install
23:38:34webguest30is that the pdf file?
23:38:43webguest30there isnt any 2.2.2 on the pdf its just pages and step number.
23:38:46DerPapstis down?
23:39:01n1sthe manual online is the same as the one in the pdf
23:39:04TrueJournalsyou skipped that step
23:39:10TrueJournals(says Soap)
23:39:33bluebrotherthere is definitely a section 2.2.2
23:39:33webguest302.2.2 ok let me check it out...
23:39:44DerPapstlinuxstb: can you /join #rockbox.flood
23:39:46bluebrotherthat's called "installing the firmware"
23:40:01TrueJournalswebguest30: It might just be a good idea to go to and follow all the instructions again
23:40:02webguest30ill come back in 10 minutes let me get this stutff figured out
23:40:04linuxstb_DerPapst: I think I found the problem - the scan function isn't closing the devices.... Try adding ipod_close(ipod) around line 1268 (before the })
23:40:04hachiisn't step 2.2.2 the thing he JUST DID?
23:40:25TrueJournalshachi: that's what I was thinking... It really sounds like he's missing the bootloader (2.2.3
23:40:31webguest30w/e let me re read the manual.
23:40:31bluebrotherno - 2.2.2 is extracting
23:40:38hachiit has to be the bootloader
23:40:42Soaphachi: read the forum thread - the bootloader is what told him he doesn't have rockbox.ipod on his iPod.
23:40:48hachibluebrother: contains rockbox.ipod and .rockbox
23:40:53bluebrotherbut if he gets some "rockbox missing" message he has a bootloader installed
23:40:58bluebrotherhachi, I know :)
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23:41:06TrueJournalsSoap: but he's saying that it's booting into the iPod firmware... wouldn't it just reset if he didn't have the files?
23:41:07Soapie: the old "error -1"
23:41:10hachik, so now he needs to install the bootloader again
23:41:15hachidon't send the guy in circles
23:41:17TrueJournals(I duno, I don't have an iPod...)
23:41:21hachionce he has the firmware on it, leave it on there
23:41:29webguest30i need the file "rockbox-2.5.tar.gz
23:41:30joshua_heyo; I'm trying to build Rockbox again, and I'm still having toolchain related problems (it seems)
23:41:34bluebrotherwebguest30, no.
23:41:40joshua_what toolchains do you guys use to build Rockbox for ARM? are they available anywhere?
23:41:42Soaphachi: why do you think he needs to install the bootloader again? The bootloader is what is giving him the error.
23:41:48bluebrotherrockbox 2.5 was only released for archos devices
23:41:51hachibecause he's seeing the ipod menu
23:42:02webguest30so I dont need rockbox-2.5.tar.gz?
23:42:08hachithe rockbox bootloader wouldn't let him see that, he'd be seeing an error or rockbox if it was installed
23:42:12TrueJournalsjoshua_: read the wiki about cross compiling... there's a script that will install everything you need (in SVN, it's /tools/
23:42:16Bagderjoshua_: we use gcc, lots of docs on that in the wiki at
23:42:18Lloreanhachi: If you try to boot Rockbox, rockbox.ipod isn't found, it kicks you back to the Apple firmware.
23:42:20bluebrotherok. Lets start from the beginning.
23:42:31bluebrotherWhen you reboot the ipod, what do you see?
23:42:37joshua_ah, d'oh, I'd been googling around for Rockbox gcc and my particular errors, but I hadn't actually searched the wiki. thanks
23:43:02hachiLlorean: ahh... my ipod never did that... but my ipod doesn't do much :)
23:43:11webguest30ok let me tell you the files in my rockbox folder
23:43:13Big_Machow do I copy from the vmware e term
23:43:18Big_Maclike copy and paste
23:43:27bluebrotherwebguest30, have you a command prompt open?
23:43:29Soapwebguest30: we don't care what files are in your c:\rockbox folder.
23:43:34TrueJournalswebguest30: it doesn't matter what's in the rockbox folder on your C: drive... what matters is what's on your iPod
23:43:41Soapwebguest30: we care that files are on your iPod.
23:43:46TrueJournalsrockbox.ipod on the .rockbox folder need to be ON YOUR iPOD!
23:43:54bluebrotherif not open one, and do a "dir x:" with x: being the drive letter your ipod has
23:43:54webguest30ok they are literally on it
23:44:01bluebrotherliterally doesn't help
23:44:10webguest30i dragged them onto the ipod
23:44:17bluebrotherand _where_ on the ipod?
23:44:19hachiso when looking at your ipod directory listing you see things like
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23:44:20webguest30so is that it
23:44:22TrueJournalswebguest30: what files are listed when you open the iPod directory?
23:44:31bluebrother*please* run that cmd line I gave you
23:44:32hachi.rockbox, rockbox.ipod, Notes, iPod_Control, etc. ?
23:44:44webguest30idk... just were the other stuff is were the notes and contacts etc are
23:44:51Soap(he probably has hidden folders hidden hachi )
23:44:58Soap(or not)
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23:45:14TrueJournalswebguest30: when you go to your iPod in the file browser... do you see a rockbox.ipod file?
23:45:19*bluebrother still thinks a simple cmd line could help quite easily
23:45:21DerPapstlinuxst: does ipodpatcher still cause problems on 4G (b&w) and mini 2G?
23:45:41*DerPapst balmes his keyboard
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23:45:49linuxstb_I think so, yes. Although someone reported loader2 works fine...
23:46:05webguest30ok journal... when i click on my ipod in my computer i have a .rockbox i manually dragged onto there and a rockbox.ipod file i also dragged on there manually.
23:46:27TrueJournalswebguest30: then everything should be good... restart your iPod and it should work
23:46:32DerPapstlinustb_ aha...
23:46:35TrueJournalsIf it doesn't work... you're lying to us ;-)
23:46:37linuxstb_DerPapst: The only problem on those ipods is loading the Apple firmware.
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23:46:43webguest30so i dont need to any of the cmd stuff?
23:46:57webguest30one second.
23:46:59Soapthose files are to patch your bootloader - they are not the actual Rockbox firmware.
23:47:11Soapthey are tools, and not needed _on_ your iPod.
23:47:37TrueJournalsok then, ignore me... listen to Soap, I don't actually have an iPod...
23:47:42webguest30ok ipod restarted...
23:47:44*TrueJournals is really confused right now...
23:48:08webguest30I get my regular ipod stuff :(
23:48:13SoapTrueJournals: I believe (I might be mistaken) he was talking about ipodpatcher and bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod.
23:48:17LloreanTrueJournals: Please, don't try to help with a device you don't own unless you'r 100% sure.
23:48:17Big_Machow doI copy a segment of code from vmware so I can rafb it then show you it so you can tell me what I am doing wrong
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23:48:44LloreanBig_Mac: Open the file with an editor in windows.
23:48:45Soapwebguest30: did your iPod boot instantly into Apple OS, or did you see some white text on a black background first?
23:48:51TrueJournalsLlorean: I was 100% sure that you need .rockbox and rockbox.ipod... I was not aware that there was another type of rockbox.ipod file...
23:49:02webguest30booted staright to apple OS
23:49:18Soapwebguest30: then you need to force a reset with the "Menu"+"Select" combo.
23:49:21LloreanTrueJournals: Ah, there's a bootloader.ipod file
23:49:23webguest30i have rockbox.ipod and .rockbox folder staright on there.
23:49:23Big_Macno I am copying it from eterms, as in I am just trying to make a clean zip as Soapsuggested
23:49:32webguest30i did do a force reset.
23:49:40webguest30still didnt do squat.
23:49:51TrueJournalsLlorean: But I did ask about a rockbox.ipod file specifically... not just any kind of .ipod file... I tried to be very careful with that...
23:50:00Soapok, webguest30, since you originally posted in the forums, it appears then that you have removed the bootloader from your ipod.
23:50:06LloreanTrueJournals: Okay, I'm only half able to follow this with like forty people talking at once.
23:50:34webguest30ok so should I do something with the boot loader. should i manually drag that onto the ipod?
23:50:35bluebrotherwebguest30, then you need to repeat 2.2.3 of the manual
23:50:44DerPapstcan someone chmod +r if it exists?
23:50:58bluebrotheryou need ipodpatcher for installing the bootloader. No dragging for that one
23:51:03SoapWhat steps have you taken, webguest30 (and please change your nick to Perrycaryk with the "/nick PerryCaryk" command) SINCE your post two hours ago on the forums?
23:51:23SoapWhat is the question Big_Mac?
23:51:35Big_MacHow do I copy from eterms in vmware
23:51:39TrueJournalsBig_Mac: run the command vmware-toolbox & and then copy from vmware
23:51:39Big_MacI selected it
23:51:42TrueJournalspaste in windows
23:51:55TrueJournals*command "vmware-toolbox &"
23:51:57Big_Macbut you can't right click or ctrl c
23:52:22bluebrotherBig_Mac, linux usually uses simple selecting with the left mouse button for putting stuff into the clipboard
23:52:34bluebrotherespecially on the console
23:53:02webguest30wow it works
23:53:10webguest30ok ok ok thank you thank you ... I feel like a big idiot
23:53:41Big_Macalright I will be back later
23:53:46 Part Big_Mac
23:54:48bluebrotherwebguest30, please read the manual. Rockbox has some concepts that are a bit different
23:55:11bluebrothereverything that is needed for music playback is explained there
23:55:42bluebrother(some advanced topics aren't completed or left out, but you'll find out yourself should you need them)
23:58:20DataGhostdoes rockbox work on 5.5G 30GB winpods?
23:58:27DataGhostbecause someone is complaining and I don't have one to test
23:58:39DerPapsterr.. yes
23:58:40DataGhostor does it suffer from the same error as the 80GB?
23:58:49DataGhostoh then that tyeo dude is doing things wrong again

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