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#rockbox log for 2007-02-14

00:00:01jhMikeShcs: I'm not sure about that last comment though :)
00:01:25DataGhostSoul-Slayer those errors are before the actual error-free read :P
00:01:34DataGhostnote 'REtrying'
00:01:51 Join thegeek_ [0] (
00:01:55DataGhostthe rest of the errors are there because my HFS+ partition is only valid for the first 200MB and has nothing on it
00:02:17Soul-SlayerAh fair enough
00:02:35DataGhostI'm just looking for someone with a 80GB macpod, since I threw osx off my laptop
00:02:40jhMikeShcs: yeah, guess it's valid
00:02:40DataGhostbecause it ate my backup }:|
00:03:23 Join Nico_P [0] (
00:04:20 Join entheh [0] (
00:04:35 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (n=thunderc@
00:05:16 Quit sdfdsa ()
00:06:19 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
00:06:25 Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
00:06:39 Join barrywardell [0] (
00:09:38 Quit Thundercloud__ (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
00:10:13 Quit thegeek (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
00:10:17 Quit Brunellus ("Ex-Chat")
00:10:21 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00:10:47 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
00:10:53 Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
00:12:55 Quit p0lak ()
00:17:20jhMikeSI think dsp.c might need a bit of optimizing to help out too. :\
00:22:41 Quit CriamosAndy ("( :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: )")
00:24:09midkayJdGordon: around?
00:25:53 Join Nibbier [0] (
00:26:19 Quit ender1 (" My computer NEVER cras")
00:29:32JdGordonmidkay: ?
00:30:53midkayJdGordon: oy, question about the icons, you say 6x8 but when i was messing with Rockbox's icons personally i remember them requiring the bottom line to be empty, is this still true?
00:31:46Soul-SlayerOh dear me... TrueJournals has a rockbox video on YouTube :$
00:32:20JdGordonmidkay: probably... i was just going by the info in icons.h
00:32:30JdGordonbut yes, i imaine they would still need a blank line
00:32:46midkayJdGordon: got it..
00:33:34midkaywhile you're here. you're only looking for an icon for setting entries, "link" entries (browse [x]...) and submenus?
00:33:43JdGordon <- what apple wants to build in my city!
00:33:56midkayi think it could be nice in the main menu to have icons for each item, what do you think?
00:34:03JdGordonand something for the icon for the root menu
00:34:28JdGordonevery item wll have an icon... but they might all be the same
00:34:42 Join norbusan [0] (
00:35:24midkayright, but i mean in the main menu, one for every (bookmarks = book, sound settings = speaker, general settings = gear or wrench, manage settings = disk, playlist options = playlist icon...) for example.
00:36:11linuxstb_Hopefully the settings menu will get reorganised...
00:36:40 Quit Seed (Nick collision from services.)
00:36:47 Join Seed [0] (
00:37:04JdGordonmidkay: i'm just trying to think of an easy way to do this without adding too much code
00:37:08JdGordonit would be nice tho
00:37:20 Join Xerion_ [0] (
00:37:38 Join norbusa1 [0] (
00:37:45 Part norbusa1
00:38:00sneakumsJdGordon: apparently there's one going up in sydney too
00:38:18*safetydan wonders if Brisbane is going to miss out
00:38:28JdGordononly melb and syd atm
00:38:28 Part norbusan
00:38:33sneakumsi expect they'll build one here just as i move away again
00:38:56sneakumsapple's store-builders snapping at my heels
00:39:22 Quit Xerion (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
00:39:23 Nick Xerion_ is now known as Xerion (
00:39:24JdGordon boring pics of the sydney one
00:39:34midkayno for now then? (i'm happy to do them)
00:40:03JdGordonmidkay: no, do em... I think i know how to add them in
00:40:59midkayJdGordon: cool. :) i will..
00:44:39JdGordonmidkay: did you know about the icons on rashers site?
00:45:06midkayJdGordon: i had a look, might be a couple useful but if i'm doing a bunch of them i'd rather just do them all.
00:45:11midkayif i get stuck i might have a look :)
00:48:01 Quit ooAlexoo ()
00:48:16 Join Juice^ [0] (n=Juice@
00:49:22*JdGordon likes"> for function calls from the menu
00:49:43*JdGordon should shoosh and let midkay be creative
00:49:49amiconnSlasheri's commit just used up more than JdGordon's last commit gained :(
00:50:02JdGordonkill him!
00:50:53*amiconn doesn't understand why the database needs to be endian independent on target
00:51:21JdGordonholy cow! he added 1100bytes back on
00:51:24safetydanDoes seem a little odd.
00:51:54 Join Brunellus [0] (n=luigi@unaffiliated/brunellus)
00:51:56 Quit funky ("leaving")
00:51:56safetydanWhat circumstances would you have a database from a system with different endianness?
00:52:17JdGordonwhen would you want to move the database between targets at alll?
00:52:43amiconnThat's why I don't understand this commit at all
00:52:44JdGordonas long as the pc util did it right there shuolndt be a problem
00:52:49safetydanThe only one I can think of is if you generate on the PC, but the endianess code should be on the PC side then.
00:53:01amiconnThe pc util needs a parameter to select the correct endianess to generate
00:53:13amiconnThat's all what's needed
00:53:18 Join Mouser_X [0] (
00:53:26midkayJdGordon: haha. which one of those?
00:53:45JdGordonthe inverted right arrow
00:53:46*amiconn thinks this commit should be reverted
00:54:45midkayJdGordon: i don't see it!
00:54:45 Part JustJohnny68
00:54:59JdGordonmidkay: bottom row 4th from left
00:55:37midkayoh.. hmm.. doesn't read too well on the smaller picture. i'll try some things though. :)
00:59:41 Join probiscus_12 [0] (
01:00:31linuxstb_amiconn: I'm sure Slasheri did it to make generation on a PC easier, but I agree with you it's a waste of code space.
01:00:53amiconn1300 byte just for making it easier for the pc tool?
01:01:11amiconnWhic side of the pair has the bigger processing power and more resources?
01:01:24linuxstb_You don't need to convince me...
01:01:40amiconnI bet it's not only +1300 bytes, but slower as well...
01:02:14linuxstb_But it reminds me of an idea that it's been mentioned before - a "" (or similar) file in the .rockbox folder, so PC tools can find out information about the target, installed Rockbox version etc.
01:02:35linuxstb_Endianness could be one entry.
01:02:54JdGordonwell, if make zip generates it the go for it :)
01:03:05linuxstb_Yes, make zip could do it...
01:03:12 Quit Brunellus (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:03:20linuxstb_It just needs someone to add it, and for a format to be invented...
01:03:25JdGordontarget, endian, svn revision, what else would go in there tho?
01:03:49linuxstb_That's probably all that's needed. If anyone thinks of something else, it could easily be added.
01:04:58Soul-SlayerWouldn't applied patches have some sort of interaction too?
01:05:41amiconnI don't know... wouldn't it be possible to get the extact target from the rockbox.* file or any codec or plugin?
01:05:54linuxstb_Yes, but why make it difficult?
01:05:57amiconnAn extra file might not be present
01:06:22amiconnThe tool should at least offer alternatives when that's the case
01:07:07safetydanDoesn't the rockbox.* have a header that contains the target and revision?
01:07:14barrywardellwouldn't it be better to tie the info directly to the rockbox.* file. otherwise you could possibly have differing .info and rockbox.* svn revisions for example
01:07:28amiconnIt does, at least on the targets where we run our own bootloader
01:07:41linuxstb_I didn't think revision was there, but target is.
01:08:02linuxstb_But then of course the tool will need an ever-changing list of rockbox.* files to look for...
01:08:50safetydanSo make the rockbox.* file be the same name on all targets.
01:09:04safetydanCan happen at the same time it gets moved under .rockbox
01:09:14amiconnsafetydan: Not possible for all targets
01:09:22JdGordonwell all but the archos
01:09:31linuxstb_See, exceptions already....
01:09:38linuxstb_Just stick a file there...
01:09:48JdGordonwhy? call the file ajbr.bjz or whatever it is :D
01:09:48barrywardellok, maybe the .info is the better solution
01:10:40safetydanWhat might also be useful is some sort of "official build" indicator
01:11:00barrywardellwhy hasn't rockbox.* been moved to /.rockbox?
01:11:21safetydanbarrywardell: inertia I think
01:11:24 Quit RogerBacon (Remote closed the connection)
01:11:34Mikachuit would break people with old bootloaders?
01:11:43JdGordonthats good then
01:11:47barrywardellit would avoid a lot of the "it starts up and I clicked on rockbox but nothing happened" questions newbies have
01:11:47JdGordonforce ppl to upgrade
01:11:50probiscus_12hi folks, I'm new here, I have read up a bit and found that there seems to be interest in some in getting rockbox ported to the creative line of players although that doesn't seem to be working yet, anyway I have an older Dell DJ 2 that is very similar to the Creative players, I no longer use it and would like to help their efforts if possible. While my programming skills are not strong, would scanning the board/posting firmware be help
01:11:51Mikachubut they could just move the files
01:12:06linuxstb_barrywardell: The root menu should stop those questions.
01:12:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:12:52barrywardellbut searching for rockbox.* in two places seems not very KISS to me.
01:13:00JdGordonif you have a rockbox. file in / and /.rockbox/ it will cause the same confusion even with the menu
01:13:27barrywardellbut at least people will know they are already in rockbox
01:13:35JdGordonprobiscus_12: have a look at the NewPorts wiki page
01:13:49JdGordonpeople think they arnt?
01:14:08linuxstb_JdGordon: Lots of ipod users have never seen their ipod's filesystem...
01:14:24safetydanThe bootloader has been looking in two places for 15 months now
01:14:51probiscus_12yeah i looked at that a bit, and i skimmed over the forum topic about the zens, but I couldn't find any scans anywhere, and thougt I might be able to help there?
01:14:56 Quit Soul-Slayer (Remote closed the connection)
01:15:08JdGordonprobiscus_12: yeah, scans are a good start
01:15:24barrywardelli've read a lot of posts along the lines of "i can't get rockbox to work.I think I installed it but I just get a menu with Text and rockbox in it. I clicked rockbox but it just brings me back there."
01:15:25linuxstb_probiscus_12: Scans would help, but you need to build up some interest in the port and attract some skilled developers.
01:15:53JdGordonbarrywardell: hehe they are funny... ok, now i get what your talking about
01:15:58probiscus_12yeah i realize that, I'm not asking you to port it for me ;)
01:16:37barrywardellanyway, the existing bootloaders would still find the rockbox.* file if it was moved to /.rockbox
01:16:48 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
01:17:01midkayJdGordon: hmm, seems to me like some icons simply disregard the leave-one-line-blank system we used..
01:18:15JdGordonwell the .h says they are 6x8 so some authors probaby took that litterally
01:18:17probiscus_12well I'll see if I can get some scans of the board for now, then go from there, thanks
01:18:32midkayyeah, that may be it.. hmm.
01:18:52JdGordonwhich re nautghy?
01:19:51midkayJdGordon: hold on, i'm still trying to see if that's correct..
01:20:35 Part probiscus_12
01:20:55Nico_PJdGordon: i've just tested the root menu patch for the first time
01:21:02Nico_Pit's very nice
01:21:31Nico_Pbut it just feels weird not to go back to the root menu when pressing left from the root of the file browser or the DB ;)
01:21:57 Join Brunellus [0] (n=luigi@unaffiliated/brunellus)
01:22:17JdGordonshoosh you!! im not having that argument again now... not before lunch :p
01:22:30 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
01:22:31linuxstb_I'm tending to agree. My first thoughts were that left shouldn't leave the browser, but after trying the latest patch, I think it should....
01:22:39 Join Mouser_X [0] (
01:23:16midkayJdGordon: aha, the bookmark icon doesn't leave a blank line.
01:23:17Nico_Panother thing : when i go into "settings", the menu title is "Rockbox Main Menu"... this probably needs to be corrected ;)
01:23:51JdGordonNico_P: yeah, i did that because we didnt know what that would be called when it went in
01:24:03linuxstb_Also, in the current patch, left leaves the Settings menu, and plugin browser...
01:24:18Juice^Im addicted to jewels, i play it every night on my sansa before falling asleep. is there sound on that game (plugin)?
01:24:51Nico_Plinuxstb_: yeah, it would feel more consistent to have the same behaviour with files and DB
01:25:05Nico_PJdGordon: why not "settings" ? :)
01:25:24JdGordonNico_P: it will be... just have to tell it to use the LANG_ for settings
01:25:44JdGordonbreaky time
01:25:54Nico_Panyway it's a thing i'd been waiting and i'm very pleased it's arriving :)
01:26:31safetydanJuice^, I don't belive Rockbox supports sound on the Sansa yet.
01:27:04Juice^safetydan: yes i know, but is that game supposed to have sound on supported devices?
01:27:34Juice^thats an answer for me linuxstb_ ?
01:28:28linuxstb_Most people play plugins while listening to music, so there's not much demand for noises...
01:28:38Juice^Ah.. i understand
01:28:51 Part pixelma
01:28:51 Join Llorea1 [0] (
01:28:58Juice^That will be so slick... if the sansa ever gets sound support, to play while listening :)
01:29:14Nico_Plinuxstb_: about the cuesheet patch... do you think it would be possible to commit it in its current state ?
01:29:16directhexthe stuff on the news page about austria microsystems is neat. any progress on that?
01:29:51linuxstb_afaik, a trip is still planned to their office/factory, but I don't think we've seen any documentation.
01:30:04 Join Kittt0s [0] (
01:31:10directhexit's their chip in the sansa isn't it?
01:31:32barrywardellyeah, kinda
01:31:50barrywardellit's their chip inside the PortalPlayer chip
01:31:56Llorea1The DAC is theirs, I believe
01:32:36Nico_Plinuxstb_ ?
01:32:44linuxstb_It's handy that PortalPlayer's chips are in fact Frankenstein...
01:32:52linuxstb_Sorry Frankenstein's monster..
01:33:04 Quit [toffe] ("MegaIRC v3.27")
01:33:36linuxstb_Nico_P: I think last time it was discussed, there was a feeling that it shouldn't be committed before metadata-on-buffer.
01:33:44linuxstb_(along with album-art)...
01:33:58Llorea1linuxstb_: If you can't find a datasheet, identify the parts?
01:34:08 Nick Llorea1 is now known as llorean (
01:34:33Nico_Pwell it only uses memory for those who use it and it's not that much anyway
01:34:36 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
01:34:45 Join Mouser_X [0] (
01:34:49Nico_PLinusN did say it was ok for him IIRC
01:35:06directhexi've never completely understood companies like portalplayer and broadcom. does it harm their business if more people can use their products? are they scared of chinese knock-off silicon based on their exceedingly valuable documentation?
01:35:29Nico_Pand i would appreiciate having one less patch to maintain indefinitly based on MoB
01:35:56safetydandirecthex, some companies just default to keeping everything secret
01:36:35linuxstb_The cynic in me says that they are all infringing each other's patents, so want to hide as much as they can about their chips...
01:36:39lloreanNico_P: Is it in a condition that it ought to be relatively easy to convert to MoB, in theory, if it happens in a reasonable manner?
01:37:12directhexsafetydan, well i certainly can't get out of bed without tripping over chinese knock-offs of the sun niagra processor or neuros player, with their horrible open designs. don't know about you
01:37:40Nico_Pllorean: i think so. plus, MoB probably will be kinda designed for it and album art so it shouldn't be a problem
01:38:01Nico_Pit's just a matter of where the struct is in memory
01:39:31Nico_Pthe way i see it, if it's commited most people won't see a difference and the rest will be grateful even if it's not done quite right yet
01:39:39 Quit Kitt0s (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:43:31*JdGordon goes about compiling svn + cuesheet
01:44:56lloreanNico_P: By "not quite right" you mean "This one could need some tweaking" or "It could use a rewrite to do it the other way"?
01:45:06 Nick llorean is now known as Llorean (n=Llorean@rockbox/administrator/Llorean)
01:45:13JdGordonjust tweaking...
01:46:10Nico_PLlorean: codewise it's just tweaking but conceptually it's a relatively big change
01:46:16 Join saratoga [0] (i=98039a42@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:46:46LloreanI'm just trying to determine if it sounds like it's more or less 'done, with room for improvement' or 'not quite done yet'
01:47:49JdGordonNico_P: are you sure your latest patch works with svn?
01:48:05Slasheriamiconn: that can be ifdeffed to not do any conversion for archos targets. i will do that next
01:48:21Slasheriamiconn: but the code is required for the pc database tool at least
01:48:50 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
01:48:53linuxstb_Nico_P: Just looking at your cuesheet patch, the \0 isn't needed in strcpy(dot, ".cue\0");
01:48:59 Join Mouser_X [0] (
01:48:59Nico_PJdGordon: yes
01:49:26Nico_Plinuxstb_: thanks, i'll change that
01:49:35JdGordonah, must have had a dirty source tree...
01:49:39JdGordoncompiles fine jere
01:49:51linuxstb_Slasheri: Of course, it's needed for the PC tool itself. But is there any need for it on any real target?
01:49:53 Part barrywardell
01:50:10JdGordonadds 3k :(
01:50:26Mikachuhow can endian conversion be 3k?
01:50:41 Join Llorea1 [0] (
01:50:45JdGordonendian stuff is 1300
01:51:18 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:51:30Slasherilinuxstb_: not really a need, but it just makes the binary format working between all targets
01:52:01Slasherilinuxstb_: now there could be an option to select the endianess on the pc side
01:52:07Nico_PJdGordon: it should probably be ifdeffed to be disabled on "old" targets
01:52:19JdGordonthat would work
01:52:22Nico_PJdGordon: is 3k really a lot ?
01:52:25JdGordonifdef it on HWWCODEC
01:52:37JdGordonit is when we are trying to get rid of the red builds
01:52:58 Quit directhex ("Leaving")
01:53:04JdGordonamiconn: can cue support be ifdefed out of the archos?
01:53:04SlasheriMikachu: it creates a new subsystem to do the conversion everywhere in rockbox with structs simple
01:53:09Nico_Pyeah that i get but for the other ones it's not too much of a problem, is it ?
01:53:32midkaySlasheri: i've been meaning to ask you a question..
01:54:00midkayyou committed this patch a few days ago:
01:54:02JdGordonNico_P: yeah, swcodec has heaps of room, 3k is nothing
01:54:19midkaydo you personally know this guy? he doesn't have his real name available.
01:54:19linuxstb_JdGordon: If the only reason to #ifdef out cuesheet support on Archos is to reduce codesize, then why choose cuesheet support, and not another feature?
01:54:32midkaynor is it apparent whether he's credited.
01:54:54JdGordonlinuxstb: true... i dunno
01:55:20Slasherimidkay: ups.. those guys are hard :/ but it was based on the roolku's patch
01:57:22*linuxstb_ sleeps
01:57:26 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC")
01:57:30Slasherimidkay: but i will contact him, hopefully he is willing to tell the realname
01:57:39midkaySlasheri: right, i was a little concerned that he wasn't credited, but if his name isn't up at all.. might run into a problem there.
01:57:53midkaySlasheri: cool, he probably just overlooked it.
01:58:16Slasherimidkay: but a good thing to notice, i just missed he hasn't had a name
01:58:54Nico_Pi should probably go to bed too
01:59:12Slasheriand i will go back again too :)
01:59:43 Join roolku [0] (
02:00:09Slasheriah, and roolku came too :)
02:00:52 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
02:00:53roolkuHi, yes, I saw the talk in the log ;)
02:01:08midkayoh, roolku's patch was the basis. :)
02:01:16*roolku should be in bed now
02:02:17roolkucould I recommend as the committed version is a little to simple
02:03:02roolku(fixes how COMM frame is read from id3v2)
02:03:32Slasheriroolku: yes, that looks ok. I will do it tomorrow
02:03:47roolkuthank you :)
02:04:04Slasheribut did you got my message?
02:04:27Slasheriasking about your email address
02:04:48roolkusorry, overlooked the flashy window
02:05:50roolkunow answered
02:06:11Slasheridid not got that, probably you are not registered in freenode and privmsgs don't work :/
02:06:33Slasheribut really need to go now, back tomorrow ->
02:06:50 Quit Weiss (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:07:20 Quit |Rincewind| ("Cya")
02:07:22 Quit Llorean (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:08:29roolkuWhoops. forgot to identify - hope you still got it is sleep time
02:09:00Mikachuyou'd have to send it again after identing
02:09:57 Quit roolku ()
02:12:57JdGordondoes anyone know how many right-to-left languages are currently supported in tha langs?
02:13:37JdGordonis hebrew the only one?
02:14:18safetydanJdGordon, do we have a farsi or arabic translation?
02:14:25safetydanThey're both rtl
02:15:27safetydanWell I guess Hebrew is it then.
02:16:29JdGordonIve got an idea for the list widget, and the first use would be to enable proper RTL, but with only 1 lang im not sure its worth the extra code
02:17:26midkayJdGordon: i finished the menu and general settings submenu icons.
02:17:44Llorea1JdGordon: Someone as working on connected script for RTL arabic.
02:18:11JdGordonmidkay: yay :) put em up somewhere
02:18:13 Nick Llorea1 is now known as Llorean (
02:19:07JdGordonhmm... maybe ill add it anyway because the extra code wont actually be that much
02:19:10safetydanLlorean, I thought there was already joining for arabic? Hence firmware/arabjoin.c
02:19:17*JdGordon thinks he _may_ be working on too many patches at once :p
02:19:32 Join saratoga [0] (i=98039a42@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
02:19:37*w1ll14m agrees with JdGordon
02:19:39Lloreansafetydan: I couldn't remember if it ever got included.
02:20:07LloreanBut since we 'support' RTL, it seems like if there's a proper way to do it, it should be done properly, right?
02:20:56JdGordonim also thinknig that left/right should be switched if a rtl lang is used (in the list only of course)
02:21:32safetydanProper RTL support would be grand. Not many people would use it right now, but who knows, maybe we'll get a lot of middle-eastern users :)
02:21:51Mikachucan you make bombs from ipods? *hides*
02:21:57LloreanJdGordon: Are RTL-language UIs usually flipped?
02:22:06JdGordonI know there are quite a few Israelis using rockbox, so they would like it
02:22:30JdGordonLlorean: well the text would be on the right of the screen.. so pressing right to enter would probably feels more normal
02:22:41JdGordonjust like we use left because it follows the text direction
02:23:01LloreanJdGordon: Only if they're used to that for their UIs traditionally. We should probably ask some people.
02:23:15JdGordonof course
02:23:18w1ll14mJdGordon, maybe create a file that contains filenames of RTL fonts, if the filename exists it should set RTL instead of LTR. then it's just a task fo editing language files
02:23:34w1ll14m... s/fo/of/
02:23:50JdGordonmidkay: got a screenshot of them?
02:24:03midkaysure, hold on.
02:24:57JdGordonw1ll14m: It would be better to put it in the lang header, but yeah a text file would work as well
02:25:20JdGordonw1ll14m: " Last time i mentioned a bug about not beable to view files from database or filebrowser, " ?
02:25:35w1ll14mJdGordon: a header would be the nicest way
02:25:40w1ll14mJdGordon: i did, did i ?
02:25:45w1ll14mlet me check... as far as i know
02:26:07JdGordonthats the comment you just put in FS
02:26:54w1ll14mow lol.. i see :) i didn't make a bug report or something like that....
02:27:18JdGordonmidkay: my file manager does show the previews.. so dw about the screeny
02:27:38midkayJdGordon: ok
02:28:01Lloreanmidkay: The grayscale edges: Bad.
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02:28:09midkayLlorean: there are no grayscale edges..
02:28:19LloreanOh, the previews hate me then
02:28:37midkayyeah, that's my worry, they might be resized = bad
02:28:43Winchester345hey, in the docs.... when it talks about the API... in the bit about LCD it talks about recorder and player.... do ipods count as recorders for that?
02:28:47JdGordonI think the voice one is better than the sound one and should eb used for both
02:28:56Lloreanmidkay: Yeah, integer resizes are okay, but non-integer not so much.
02:29:00JdGordonmidkay: gonna show us your brilliance and do a treble clef?
02:29:12w1ll14mJdGordon: what happens when you are playing a song and then press select?
02:29:29JdGordontakes you to the last browser you were in
02:29:37midkayJdGordon: haha. i've tried that before and today, it's hard! :)
02:29:43w1ll14mdamn ... that's just strange.
02:30:15w1ll14mmy 5g just won't go back to previous screen
02:30:26w1ll14mehh to database or file browser
02:30:41JdGordonmidkay: what should be used for sub menus without a set icon? and for functions?
02:30:46JdGordonand for settings?
02:30:54midkayah, i'll have to do that.
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02:31:02midkayquick preview of main menu icons anyways:
02:31:25safetydanWinchester345: which documentation? Player and recorder refer to types of Archose devices. The docs are probably talking about charcell vs bitmap at that point, in which case the iPod is bitmap
02:32:11midkayJdGordon: so i think the general settings icon (wrench) can be used for all settings that aren't functions or submenus..
02:33:02JdGordonI was trying to work out what t was.. then i remembered you said you wanted to do a wrench :)
02:33:23*w1ll14m is going to sleep......
02:33:27w1ll14mgood night all ;)
02:33:34midkayJdGordon: haha. it's a tough one. :)
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02:33:46midkayi wanted to try a gear, but it's too small to really show well..
02:33:48Winchester345safetydan: docs\PLUGIN_API , so the ipod uses the display buffer like a recorder?
02:33:50midkaywrench looked best to me.
02:34:30midkayfor functions, an arrow:
02:35:05midkayand here's an idea for submenus, a dot-dot-dot - hard to see on a monitor, should work fine on a small LCD:
02:35:25Mikachuthe dot pitch on the nano is quite high
02:35:53midkayMikachu: way lower than the ipod video, and i can see *all* icons veryvery clearly.
02:36:06midkay(.. on my ipod video)
02:36:30JdGordonmidkay: I like the arrow for submenus
02:36:37Mikachucan't you just use some unicode code points? i'm pretty sure it has arrows and dot-dot-dots
02:36:50JdGordonno.. these are for actual icons not text
02:37:05Mikachuit would look silly with a 20 size font for blind people then three pixels of dots
02:37:06midkaythe others have to be bitmaps, so might as well make these bitmaps..
02:37:15JdGordonrashers rocket ship for functions :)
02:37:15midkaytechnically six pixels :)
02:37:38Mikachudon't underestimate what characters are in unicode, there is for example an umbrella and a broken heart
02:37:51Mikachudunno about wrench though :)
02:38:55Mikachuah, but there is a gear :) ⚙
02:39:02Soapmidkay: very nice icons, especially considering the limitations.
02:39:31midkayJdGordon: how about this for submenus:
02:39:34midkaySoap: thanks :)
02:39:47LloreanMikachu: A gear is good.
02:39:52LloreanI do like the idea of using Unicode ones.
02:40:01LloreanThat covers multiple font sizes, at least.
02:40:11Mikachuthat is assuming fonts contain the glyphs
02:40:13LloreanCould we default to the icons when unicode ones aren't present?
02:40:20Soapadd the glyphs to all the fonts?
02:40:24midkayi think for multiple font sizes we want bitmaps, especially for high-resolution color LCDs..
02:40:33midkay*pictures colorful folders and musical notes*
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02:40:42JdGordonmidkay: thats the same one as playlist options tho
02:40:46Soapif the icons were vector graphics...
02:41:19Lloreanmidkay: They could be themeable bitmaps that default to unicode glyphs when not present that default to the 1bpp icons when those aren't present?
02:41:34Mikachuthat is starting to sound complex :)
02:41:37midkayJdGordon: not quite the same, no :)
02:42:05JdGordonoh, they are missing the dot before each line!
02:42:27JdGordonas if you'd be ablee to notice on the target tho :p
02:42:28midkayJdGordon: still way similar to the themes one, though.. sigh :) any ideas for a different themes one?
02:42:37SoapI know it is cold here, but is it snowing in Hell? I never thought I'd see the day where not only did Llorean propose eye-candy, he proposed complicated eyecandy.
02:42:54JdGordonmidkay: a smiley face? something abstract
02:42:58safetydanWinchester345: yes
02:43:07JdGordonhahah Soap
02:43:18LloreanSoap: It snowed here in Texas several weeks back, close enough
02:43:21LloreanThat was your one for the year
02:43:34Soapit snows in the panhandle all the time.
02:43:40Winchester345safetydan: thanks =)
02:43:45midkayLlorean: i thought about themable today, i think that's the way to go. that or a few batches of icons in SVN, like 6x8, 8x11, 10x13, and the largest one possible is used.
02:44:42*JdGordon doent like the idea of using different defaults for this and font sizes on the targets
02:44:57midkayJdGordon: themes:
02:45:07JdGordongood enough :)
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02:45:28midkayJdGordon: i think we need a few reasonable defaults and leave the rest to theme designers. :)
02:45:53Soap(and left from browser/database to root menu)
02:46:02Mikachui'll be happy if submenus get an icon even if nothing else does
02:46:06Lloreanmidkay: I think they should be themable definitely, as it's similar in concept to fonts.
02:46:09Mikachuit's sort of confusing in the settings screens
02:46:21midkayJdGordon: if you use these i hope you put them in apps/bitmaps/mono (bmp2rb build process) to make it easier..
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02:46:30JdGordonMikachu: yeah, this is what prompted the call for icons, midkay went overboard tho :D
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02:46:43midkayhaha. i want iconned menus and i'll work for them if i have to :D
02:46:59JdGordonmidkay: bmp2rb will convert them to the needed code? great
02:47:26Mikachujust don't make it load the icons from disk on-demand
02:47:26JdGordonback in 5
02:47:27midkayyeah, just like the bitmaps used for all plugins, for example. you might need to do a little research on it.
02:48:19midkayJdGordon: currently all the browser bitmaps are in the old hard-coded hex format (ugh). if you put these new ones in as bitmaps that are built automatically i'd be happy to recreate all the browser bitmaps in order to transition them to the new system.
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02:52:30JdGordonhmm... ok, ill have a look into doing that
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02:58:03JdGordonmidkay: do you know what needs to be included to use a generated bmp?
02:58:28midkaynot too sure, i think just an.. wait..
02:59:11midkayextern const fb_data mybitmap[];
02:59:47JdGordonsomeone mentioned colour icons? the icon loader currently uses the mono bmp loader.. but could be changed to use colour ones i think
03:00:58JdGordonmidkay: the only icons used in the actual firmaware is the logo and usb.. i cant see that for the logo one anywher
03:01:40JdGordon#include <bitmaps/usblogo.h> :D
03:01:48midkayaha :)
03:02:10JdGordonif you want to whip up some colour 6x8 icons for the browser and menus no one will stop you :)
03:02:20JdGordonalthough, colour wont work well with backdrop images
03:02:28JdGordonbetter keep them b+w then
03:02:46midkaynods, i might give it a try later but b/w is fine for now..
03:04:11JdGordonIll add the code to display icons first, then if that looks nice ill see about autogenerating them
03:04:24midkayok :)
03:04:31JdGordonthat would make us one step closer to bigger bmps on large tarets
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03:10:59JdGordonwell that was easy :p now only have to change 50000000000 macro calls to get them to show the icons :'(
03:12:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:18:19hcsjhMikeS: noticing a small but measurable improvement with your single-multiply code
03:22:05JdGordonwell.. my code works :) using the firmware X for settings looks funny
03:22:25JdGordonmidkay: can you gimme the bmp for your arrow please?
03:22:52midkaythat firmware "x" is actually a jukebox recorder! (ugly) :)
03:24:46midkayhow'd that happen.
03:24:49JdGordonbmp or the actual code would be the best
03:25:44JdGordonstill png :D
03:25:54JdGordonimageshack probably converts it themselves
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03:28:46scorchethey do convery
03:29:21Winchester345is it possible to send/receive data with the USB host yet/ever?">
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03:29:50midkaythat should be all you need.
03:30:43LloreanA smiley face for Themes?
03:30:50midkaythat's what we came up with!
03:30:57midkay:) any other ideas?
03:31:56LloreanI don't see how a smiley relates to themes.
03:32:12LloreanBut the only alternatives I can think of don't relate either
03:32:47JdGordonLlorean: well.. themes are one I guess we can play with.. it should be something abstract :)
03:32:49midkayright, i can't think of a way to really represent it, so..
03:33:00*Domonoky updated the rbutil patch to include a few more checks, now only H10 is missing from the bootloader installation. Windows binary : domonoky/">
03:33:36Lloreanmidkay: But maybe a star, or a triangle... something more primitive than personal.
03:33:46JdGordonwhat did we say the arrow was for?
03:33:55midkayJdGordon: functions.
03:34:05midkaya star might look nice.
03:34:06JdGordonwhat were we using for settings?
03:34:15midkaygeneral settings bmp
03:34:20Domonokynext step for rbUtil would be bootloader uninstallation...
03:34:21JdGordonthe spanner?
03:35:34 Quit entheh ("^~")"> ?
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03:36:54midkaythat was the idea, but.. i'll see if i can come up with something.
03:37:07midkaymaybe a good idea would be to give options the same icon as their.. menu's icon.
03:37:21midkaysound settings the musical note, display settings the little monitor, playlist settings the playlist icon...
03:38:05JdGordonno, that wouldnt work
03:38:13JdGordonthe idea is so he user knows what each item does
03:38:51JdGordonthe list title will have the proper icon tho
03:38:52midkaywell, they know what a submenu looks like, and what a function looks like, so whatever else it might be has to be a setting screen, right?
03:38:59midkayok, let me work on it.
03:39:39midkayhaha. what about a half-star half-stick-figure for a themes icon? :D
03:39:51midkaythe star's primitive and abstract, and the stick figure says personalization!
03:39:58midkayhe's like the sokoban guy.
03:40:43midkaywhat a stroke of genius (or limited resolution, one of those two) :)">"> even.
03:41:45LloreanLooks more or less like a Japanese character.
03:41:48Mikachuincidentally taht is the kanji for large
03:41:50LloreanI think that could be confusing.
03:42:03midkaywhat about a plus sign?
03:42:17Mikachuon the plus side you can use unicode for it then :)
03:42:29midkayhaha, screw that. :)
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03:43:17Lloreanmidkay: What about something a bit more abstract, like this? llorean/389728920/">
03:43:34JdGordonmidkay: your sound menu icon looks like a bomb :)
03:43:48midkayhaha, a bomb. :E *looks again*
03:43:54midkayLlorean: looks like the disk activity icon?
03:44:17LloreanHm, a bit.
03:44:28JdGordonim oging to use the voice icon for both
03:44:31JdGordonit looks good">
03:44:44midkaytry this?
03:44:47midkayslightly more musical-note-ish.
03:45:14midkayoops, try now.
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03:46:14JdGordonctrl-alt-f5 put me in a different terminal :p
03:46:17JdGordonstupid linux
03:46:20midkayoh, is that the way it will work? submenus will have the parent menu's icon?
03:46:25midkayhaha. sorry. :E
03:46:25JdGordonna, still looks like a bomb
03:46:44midkayreally? :( i can do something more like a musical note then..
03:46:52JdGordonna, the voice one is good
03:47:11midkaybut it's a duplicate!!
03:47:24Lloreanmidkay: ?
03:47:37LloreanI just like the idea of something that's less identifiable as something else.
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03:47:52midkayi know what you mean.. just a sec.
03:48:13midkayJdGordon: ctrl-alt-*click refresh* the above sound_settings.bmp link, new file upped..
03:48:18midkayrockbox's musical note!
03:49:25JdGordonmuch better
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03:49:32midkaywait, refresh one more time.
03:49:33JdGordonthe rockbox note isnt that one tho...
03:49:44midkayi reupped, *that's* it.
03:49:50JdGordonhehe ok
03:50:01midkayso you're doing what with submenus? same as parent's icon?
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03:51:44JdGordonthe icon used for submenus is shown in its parent and as its title... if that makes sense
03:52:10midkaythe indented-lines one?
03:52:27JdGordonthat will be used if none is set
03:52:41midkayor is the submenu icon the same one as its parent (as in your shot of the crossfeed menu being the same as the sound settings icon)
03:53:01JdGordoncrossfeed got the sound one because i told it to
03:54:27midkayright, is that going to be the general theme of things, or was that just placeholder?
03:55:50JdGordonplaceholder.... only the major submenus should get their own icon
03:56:17midkayyou mean like general settings.
03:57:04JdGordonand display settings
03:57:19midkaybiggest.. submenu... ever :)
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04:04:04JdGordonrefresh my screenshot
04:04:25JdGordonim starting to think maybe the settings dont actually need icons if everything else has
04:05:41JdGordonthe items that take you to the setting screen
04:06:29midkaykeep the code for it please, for a moment :)
04:06:48JdGordonhehe of course
04:06:57SoapI liked the idea that the primary menu items had "iconic" icons, and the others had either an "This is another sub menu" icon or "This is a setting" icon.
04:08:10midkaySoap: like a universal "setting"/"submenu" icon?
04:08:54Soapthe classic "plus in a box" icon for submenu possibly even.
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04:09:17perldiverplus in the box, has my vote
04:09:28midkayooh ooh.. hold on.
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04:09:37JdGordonplus in a box is a submenu?
04:10:01Soapyes, as in "you can expand this item"
04:10:17JdGordonhmm... interesting :p
04:10:40midkaytoo bad it doesn't fit well with 6x8..
04:10:43midkaywhat about sans box?
04:12:01midkayokay, my proposal:
04:12:39*JdGordon wonders if midkay wants a patch so he can go nuts :)
04:12:59JdGordontoo simillar imo
04:13:13midkaywhat are?
04:13:22JdGordonyour 2 icons
04:13:31midkaythat wasn't what i meant.. :D
04:13:40SoapI like where you are going with those, but boy they are similar at a small scale.
04:14:03midkayi didn't mean that, sorry..
04:14:20midkayrefresh the submenu one.
04:14:33midkay(shound be a plus without a box)
04:14:44JdGordonthat could work
04:14:57JdGordonis setting.bmp the same as the current playlist bmp?
04:15:04midkayno, considerably different.
04:15:14midkayindented, and the first line isn't bulleted. :)
04:15:30JdGordonoh ok
04:16:02Soapyea, the fat plus works well
04:16:12LloreanSoap: Plusbox looks like the language one.
04:16:32Soapchange the language one then Llorean ;)
04:16:41LloreanMight be a good idea
04:16:48LloreanI assumed the language one was supposed to look like a flag.
04:17:00midkayLlorean: it was, it is :)
04:17:21midkayseems like a good idea for language though, i can't think of anything else personally.
04:17:37*JdGordon starting to regret not getting the generated bmp thing giong here
04:17:58SoapThe letter A for alphabet is what my gut tells me.
04:18:09midkaySoap: bold A is 'font' though :)
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04:18:32Soapthere was an old lady who swallowed a fly...
04:18:37midkayJdGordon: i knew you would. you just didn't listen!
04:19:15Soapchange font to F so language can be A so plusbox can be submenu....
04:20:04LloreanI kinda liked the four horizontal bars, with the topmost one being longer.
04:20:06JdGordonrefresh my screenshot... i dont tihnk the setting one works.... it makes the screen to "busy"
04:20:06LloreanWasn't that submenu?
04:20:54JdGordonI'm thinking maybe just a - for settings
04:21:16midkayhmm. gimme a moment.
04:21:17JdGordonthe + looks great tho
04:22:13midkayhrm.. if i break the last-line-stays-empty-rule... :)
04:22:52JdGordonwhat about the reverse cursor icon? (i think its in the vkeybaord)?
04:23:13Soapyea, JdGordon beat me to it. Why not stick with the + / - paradigm?
04:23:27midkaywouldn't mind a cursor, i don't care for the idea of rasher's inversed cursor, it doesn't look nice to me.
04:23:57midkayabout plus and minus.. it seems to me like minus doesn't apply because it isn't a submenu, expanded or collapsed..
04:24:10midkayi think plus will read to a new user as submenu, but i think minus will be kind of confusing.
04:24:13JdGordonwhat about just a dot in the centre?
04:24:19midkaymaybe that.">
04:25:15JdGordoni just nicked it off rashers site :p
04:25:39JdGordonb ut thats a different dot...
04:25:49JdGordonhe has a single dot in the middle, but its full
04:26:19midkayi think a hollow one would look good.
04:26:26midkayit's a tough one to say though..
04:26:38JdGordonim setting up a side-by-side shot... 1 min
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04:28:03*JdGordon just realsied he has no desktop screenshot package installed
04:28:30JdGordonwe'll use your dot.. it looks slightly better i tinhk
04:28:52midkaymidkay: 3, rasher: 0
04:28:54midkayor something.
04:29:58JdGordonI gotta head out for a while...."> have a play
04:30:14Soapplaying around with the "selected bubble" idea.
04:31:29*midkay should get back to finishing his clock update...
04:32:30hcsI'm going to commit the spc player, any objections?
04:38:31perldiveris there a reason the rockblox doesnt have a pause option?
04:38:48midkaybecause it hasn't been coded :)
04:39:02hcshold switch on ipod pauses
04:39:24perldiverlet me try
04:39:35safetydanhcs, looks like there's some minor indenting issues with your commit. Though I could be wrong. Hard to tell with viewvc
04:39:43Soappause what?
04:39:59hcssafetydan: potentially, I didn't do a final run through expand like I should've
04:40:07midkayi think rockblox needs some work, i'll probably work on that after i finish the clock update.
04:40:20perldiverhcs thanks
04:40:28perldiverit does on gigabeat too
04:40:40safetydanhcs, yeah in tree.c I think there's a tab, and in metadata.c it looks like you've gone with three-space indent
04:40:52jhMikeShcs: :) I did find out that having a resampler in iram on coldfire is critical. Good for another 10% off. Don't think I should throw upsample in IRAM in the core for this but the codec could do it itself and perhaps more efficiently.
04:41:32LloreanWe need to specify some method of comparing performance.
04:41:45jhMikeSLlorean: I'm using boost ratio
04:41:48Llorean"10%" faster, can mean 10% less on the boost scale, or it can mean a 10% speedup which is often much less.
04:42:04hcsI'm measuring time spent in the decoder
04:42:36LloreanSee, two different scales. ;)
04:42:38jhMikeShcs doesn't have frequency scaling to do it
04:42:58hcsand I wouldn't want to anyway, I think this is a much more stable way to look at it
04:43:00jhMikeSLlorean: I'm comparing my stuff on coldfire on the same scale always though
04:43:35safetydanMaybe we need a codec benchmarking plugin :)
04:43:58Lloreansafetydan: X-to-wav :-P
04:43:59jhMikeSreally? I've never heard that idea before ;)
04:44:44*hcs gets to cleaning up the indentation while waiting on build results
04:45:01hcsah, good, looks clean
04:46:48hcshm, I guess I should put blargg in the credits
04:47:09safetydanhcs, if he's not there already, yes
04:47:14jhMikeSwhy not?
04:47:34hcs'cause I forgot to do it?
04:49:18hcsokays, there we go
04:49:52jhMikeSisn't there an admin type thing in svn like in cvs to change messages?
04:50:28hcsI got some improvement with the single multiply linear interpolation, a bit more by putting the noise loading in an else clause after the if
04:51:15Soapanyone have a use for a ipod photo w/o harddrive?
04:51:26Soapanyone meaning developer?
04:51:37jhMikeSah, the getting rid of the else helped remove another expensive branch of cf since the load is nothing
04:52:26hcswell it be only in the ARM conditional section so no harm done to yu
04:52:28SoapThere is one very cheap on craigslist now, and I'm willing to buy and mail it to whomever might need it.
04:53:00jhMikeShcs: never tried loading two samples with one read? I know it's sometimes unaligned if that's a big problem
04:53:21hcser, crap, alignment changes don't show up in viewsvn
04:53:35hcsjhMikeS: unaligned is a big problem on ipods
04:54:13jhMikeSi see
04:54:34hcsalmost running fast enough to use echo...
04:56:58hcsa few % here and there, we'll make it
04:57:01jhMikeSit really sould have it's own resampler and it's might not be "almost" :)
04:57:15safetydanhcs, credits go in docs/CREDITS
04:57:16hcsblargg did provide a resampler
04:57:19safetydanjust add the name to the end
04:57:39hcssafetydan: did it
04:57:56safetydanhcs, jhMikeS, there's also a resampler in libspeex if you want another one
04:59:15hcsthe code in iram issue doesn't seem to make any positive difference for me, but I understand it is a quite different story on coldfire
05:00:27hcsI'd rather leave the resampling to the dsp.
05:01:27jhMikeSbut it does a lot of piece by piece stuff there and each block can be done in one shot in the codec. also for coldfire, putting one in iram is just too important
05:02:20hcsok, I'll attach blargg's resampler to the FS task
05:02:23jhMikeSsafetydan: saw that. probably way too heavy for the spc codec
05:02:27hcsso you can take a look at it
05:03:29jhMikeSI did optimize the core one a bit and it took off 4% off the boost not in iram which is good for everything I suppose. Not committed yet.
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05:05:39Jarretdataghost, still looking for someone with an 80 gig macpod?
05:08:26jhMikeShcs: I think if I just do a version of the core one with fixed blocks and delta it will be faster. It's tiny comparitavely and use linear interpolation as well.
05:09:03hcsI don't know what you mean.
05:09:48jhMikeSabout what exactly?
05:10:08hcsfixed blocks and delta
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05:11:12jhMikeS1) I can optimize for a fixed size input and output and other things. 2) It uses a phase accumulator which can be a constant increment since the ratio is 44100/32000
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05:11:29XavierGrhcs: you forgot to close the task :P
05:11:43XavierGr(I took the time to do it)
05:11:55hcsXavierGr: oh, ok, I didn't consider it done yet
05:12:10XavierGrwant me to reopen it then?
05:12:22LloreanMake a new one
05:12:26Llorean'SPC Optimizations" or something
05:12:33XavierGrI agree with Llorean
05:12:37LloreanThe codec's in SVN now, we don't want people getting confused about it. :)
05:12:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:13:25hcswhichever of us have something new to add can create it, probably jhMikeS first
05:13:32XavierGrWell thank you hcs and blargg (and jhMikeS) for all your hard work, I really enjoy the spc codec
05:13:52XavierGrso what is the boost ration for H100 now jhMikeS?
05:14:00jhMikeSXavierGr: you're welcome. I think work is just starting up :)
05:14:19jhMikeSXavierGr: On the heaviest stuff about 85%
05:14:32XavierGrah nice, so we will see more optimizations I guess.
05:14:45hcsjhMikeS: wondering, what do you use as "the heaviest stuff"?
05:14:55XavierGruncharted waters?
05:14:56jhMikeSIf I put an optimized resampler in IRAM I can get about 72%
05:15:14hcsok, cool, that's mine, too
05:15:30hcsif we can get that running with echo on ipod we'll be home free
05:15:31jhMikeSActually it would probably help more with it being specialized
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05:16:25jhMikeSFor ColdFire an emac echo fir filter for sure
05:16:56hcsooh, can I close the feature request? 2727
05:17:17XavierGrof course
05:17:24*JdGordon back
05:17:37XavierGrSPC is now in SVN so...
05:17:44XavierGranother happy fellow with it :P
05:18:05hcswhat does one set the reason to?
05:18:10hcsout of date?
05:19:29JdGordonmidkay: did you play with the patch at all?
05:19:48midkayJdGordon: no, i didn't (haven't yet). is it about done?
05:20:16JdGordoni just got back.. so nothing has changed since i posted it before
05:21:05midkaywhen you posted it, was it complete? :)
05:23:22JdGordon! for system menu?
05:23:57midkayah, yeah. one of the few i wasn't too sure about..
05:24:16midkaymove on if you want, i'll mess around in Paint :)
05:25:07JdGordonk, im going through all the MAKE_MENU macros.. so ill put that in as a placeholder
05:26:06perldiverJdGordon is there a screenshot for the icons in the work?
05:26:36*jhMikeS hears some light clipping in the bass in supplyport
05:28:12hcsjhMikeS: doh, I guess that 3x I put in there was a bad idea?
05:29:54jhMikeS2x instead? Then shift the final output one more?
05:31:25hcsit may just be where I put it that is the issue
05:31:32safetydanHuh. It's been almost exactly one year since I had my first patch to Rockbox comitted.
05:31:39JdGordonwhy isnt there a 1 pixel margin around the whole gui?
05:32:03jhMikeScause 1 pixel is huge on some displays?
05:32:41JdGordonit is?
05:33:06jhMikeSon 160x128 you want every pixel you can get :)
05:33:16safetydanJdGordon, because there's a natural border around the LCD anyway?
05:33:19safetydanAt least there is on my H120
05:33:19hcsjhMikeS: maybe reduce global_muting
05:34:09JdGordonsafetydan: hmm... yeah i guess the sim needs something like that then
05:34:13 Part JThundley ("Sieg Sieg!")
05:34:14jhMikeShcs: by just a couple
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05:34:43hcsjhMikeS: say -2, since 3x sounds about right and 4x would probably be right on
05:35:21jhMikeSI think I have to increase it though :) since it's a right shift
05:35:22hcsjhMikeS: or just disable that amp altogether and see if it still clips?
05:35:48hcsyeah, I mean remove the mult and decrease global_muting instead
05:36:23safetydanJdGordon, ah yeah, probably. Wouldn't be hard to do, though the background images might need some resizing
05:37:06JdGordonmidkay: im done adding the icon to all the menu items.. they look great :)
05:37:14*jhMikeS has to remove the patch and svn up first
05:37:24midkayJdGordon: how about this, it's like a shield:">
05:37:37midkay(i have no idea what system should look like) :)
05:37:51midkaysounds cool though, i'll have to try it tonight :)">
05:38:06*hcs puts on the Big Headphones
05:38:13perldiverim gonna try it too JdGordon
05:38:28Lloreanmidkay: If you alter that a little bit (remove the outermost pixels, and add a border around the bottom kinda) it could look like a very small desktop PC
05:38:55LloreanOr wait, it looks like there's only one pixel
05:38:55JdGordonit does? :p
05:38:59LloreanDamn stretching.
05:39:04midkay?! :)
05:39:14midkayi like the PC idea though..
05:39:31LloreanSorry, I'm kinda out of it tonight
05:39:32JdGordonwe could use the display icon twice?
05:39:38midkayno way! :)
05:39:40JdGordonthey wont be in the same screen so its ok
05:39:46midkayyeah they are..
05:39:52midkaydisplay and system are in general settings.
05:40:18JdGordonso they are :p
05:40:25JdGordonand on top of eachother also
05:40:34midkayhaha. right.,
05:40:41midkaylet me just mess around with these ideas for a few minutes.
05:41:16midkaywhat about a plug that doesn't look very much like the plugin icon.
05:41:20JdGordoncrap.. I forgot.. what are we using for functions? the arrow?
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05:41:32Lloreanmidkay: What happened to the wrench?
05:41:37LloreanIs it still in use?
05:41:43midkayLlorean: it's general settings right now..
05:41:50midkayit'd make a good System icon..
05:42:08midkayany thoughts on a big vertical plug (versus plugin = smallish loopy plug)
05:42:10JdGordonOK, ill do that then
05:42:17JdGordonthe spanner is good
05:42:23LloreanNot a fan of the plugs for either, honestly
05:42:25JdGordon(damn you yanks calling it a wrench)
05:42:31LloreanMakes me think too much of power options
05:42:39midkaythere are some power options in system!
05:42:44midkayand power options are systemlike.. :)
05:42:54LloreanAnyway, I'm out of here, 'twas an early morning
05:42:55 Quit combrains ("Rockbox Rocks :)")
05:43:01midkaytake it easy, Llorean :)
05:43:08LloreanI'll be sure to complain about your silly choices later though. :-P
05:43:09 Part Llorean
05:43:22midkayJdGordon: plug..">
05:44:07JdGordonna... just going wth the spanner
05:44:17JdGordonthats in interesting looking plug..
05:44:27JdGordonlooks like an alien :)
05:44:27midkaywait wait.
05:44:34midkaywe can't have two ... spanners!
05:44:47JdGordonyes we can
05:44:55JdGordonyour just wasting binary space now :D
05:44:57midkaydoes this look like a gear?">
05:44:59midkaydoes this look like a gear?">
05:45:04midkayhaha. :)
05:45:06JdGordoneach one is a whopping 6 buytes!
05:45:08jhMikeShcs: that's more clippy :\
05:45:20JdGordonhaha no
05:45:29midkayhaha. this sux.
05:45:37hcsjhMikeS: is it clippy with no special scaling?
05:45:39midkayjust wait, i'll come up with something excellent.
05:46:05jhMikeShcs: I just made the change you said to no mult and + 12
05:46:12JdGordonok, well ill move onto functions then
05:46:19JdGordonusing the arrow coz no one spoke up
05:46:31hcsjhMikeS: ok, I'm just wondering if it did that when back at default
05:46:53midkayhow's this for a shield, JdGordon :">
05:47:26jhMikeSnot originally, but it was too quiet
05:47:35hcsjhMikeS: we could do it in the << 8 down at the bottom
05:47:52JdGordonits good
05:48:05hcsjhMikeS: as that's after the clamps
05:48:19jhMikeShcs: yes, better after clamping
05:48:21midkayJdGordon: so what about as the system icon? can you plug it in (pardon the plug reference!) and take a screenshot?
05:49:08jhMikeShcs...I'll pull the *3 and add two
05:49:53hcssounds lousy
05:49:59JdGordonmidkay: not for a few min... i just broke the code so 6 filees need updating before it will comoile again
05:50:06midkayhaha. fun stuff :D
05:51:04hcsjhMikeS: on the next track (Duke)
05:51:34jhMikeSit got too quiet
05:52:08hcsjhMikeS: are you changing the correct shifts?
05:52:17hcsthere are a few sets down there
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05:52:32jhMikeS out_buf [0] = amp_0 * (1 << 13);
05:52:32jhMikeSthe ones on the outbuf
05:52:54jhMikeSthat's what I was gonna do, I'm listening to (1 << 10)
05:52:55hcsyeah, 13 is too much, 10 seemed to be fine
05:53:00loopsHello, Don't mean to be a pest but how do I get a patch file installed. the patch is for the doom scroll wheel straff
05:53:34hcsjhMikeS: there's one for w/ echo and another for w/o
05:53:58jhMikeSI killed the *3 though
05:54:29jhMikeSoops :)
05:54:38safetydanloops, you need to compile patches (after applying them to the source), not install them
05:55:00loopsoh, I don't know how to do that.
05:55:02hcsjhMikeS: I think Duke just naturally sounds crappy
05:55:32safetydanloops, start here
05:55:51midkayJdGordon: i have two more you can check out now."> looks like a toolbox or lock, looks like.. well.. a computer or something. it just looks system-y. :)
05:56:12midkayi think the last one fits well enough..
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05:56:26webguest09Hello, question here.
05:56:50*JdGordon is happy with the spanner :p
05:56:55JdGordonor the shield
05:57:09webguest09I have a Toshiba Gigabeat f10.
05:57:25midkayspanner can't be reused!
05:57:29loopsthis must be done from windows computer.
05:57:30webguest09If I install Rockbox, will I have to remove or convert all the music currently on it?
05:57:35midkayso it's the shield or the ... thing. :D
05:58:23jhMikeShcs: doom clips a little on the dsp end though (watching peaks)
05:58:26safetydanloops, no you can do it from Linux or Mac OS X as well
05:58:42loopsit only has commands for windows.
05:59:15hcsjhMikeS: hmm, well, we can't leave it as darn quiet as it is, can we?
05:59:44jhMikeSno...I wish I had an spc that would play a test signal at full volume in all 8 voices
05:59:45webguest09To listen to the songs currently on my Gigabeat (.mp3.SAT file format), will I have to convert them all?
05:59:54safetydanloops, eh? Most of those commands are generic to linux/windows (with cygwin)/ and mac
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06:00:11safetydanwebguest09, you'll have to convert them. Rockbox only plays unencrypted content.
06:00:15jhMikeSbut then again I think the peaks show clips a little on the early side
06:00:23JdGordonmidkay: can you do a better icon than the + for the title icon in mens that dont specify an icon?
06:00:27JdGordonthe + looks odd
06:00:28jhMikeScause I don't hear it
06:01:34 Quit loops ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
06:02:23 Quit webguest09 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
06:02:25hcsjhMikeS: hmm, want to check out a wav dump from simulator?
06:04:05jhMikeSsure, have to build the sime first though
06:04:23safetydanhcs, is that using the the −−debugaudio switch? I was wondering if anyone actually used that.
06:04:35jhMikeSBig Bowser from Yoshi's Island is pretty loud, shows clipping but just don't hear it
06:04:39midkayJdGordon: oh.. erm.. sure. what about using the icon of the menu you just came from?
06:05:05JdGordonthats what its doing....
06:05:15midkayi.e. going into the LCD settings submenu in Display, the plus shows that it's a submenu and when you go into it you see the display icon up there, it is a display submenu after all. sounds perfect to me...
06:05:18JdGordonbut in that menu it will show a +
06:05:28midkayi mean have it show the icon of the actual menu you came from.
06:05:32hcssafetydan: yeah, I've used it
06:05:33JdGordonhmm... that wont work
06:05:36midkaywhy not?
06:05:58JdGordonbecause it doesnt know where it came from
06:06:24midkayyou can set it up to do that, right? if you call lcd_settings_menu, call it with a display icon? or is that not how it works?
06:06:40jhMikeSok, something made a crunching noise at the end of that sounded like wraparound :\
06:07:14hcsnot unexpected, though, we're on the wrong side of clipping
06:07:43jhMikeSI think << 9 will keep it ok
06:07:44JdGordonmidkay: no, the menu are built like trees... parents know their children but not the other way around....
06:07:55midkayah, gotcha..
06:08:11hcsjhMikeS: which went crunchy?
06:08:16midkaywhat about that ... icon i had before? seems appropriate to show a submenu.
06:08:36jhMikeSI try to build the sim and I get "cannot find -lspeex" :\
06:08:38midkaythat [...] icon.
06:08:57jhMikeShcs: Big Bowser (Yoshi's Island(
06:08:58hcssim builds ok here for ipod color
06:09:48JdGordonback in 5
06:12:26jhMikeSI probably messed that checkout up earlier. Had difficulty with it.
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06:14:23jhMikeSGuess I'll make clean and configure again
06:14:44webguest50ok, I tried to follow those directions for patching, but can't figure it out. when i check the folders they don't match up with what the patch is looking for
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06:16:37jhMikeSguess that worked :)
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06:19:22 Quit rotator ()
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06:20:09JdGordonmidkay: i have 15 tabs open on your webspace.. none ar3e the ... icon :p
06:20:15webguest50I don't get this patching buisness
06:20:23webguest50how do I apply the patch
06:20:38midkayJdGordon: one sec :)
06:20:42webguest50or should I say a patch, and I have already read the text but can't figure it out
06:21:08jhMikeShcs: I wonder if it's safe to scale up the volume at all
06:21:17webguest50do I apply the patch to source code, I aleady read that link
06:21:28safetydanwebguest50, yes
06:21:52hcsjhMikeS: yeah... we're dangerously close to what the SNES APU is actually doing at 16 bits
06:22:12webguest50i'll try that
06:23:05jhMikeSWell, if all voices maxed out fill the entire range at normal scale you'll clip at some point or wrap on the 24 bit end
06:23:11JdGordonmidkay: actually.. I tihnk ill use the old setting one... the one that is almost the playlist icon with the extra line
06:23:20hcsjhMikeS: I seem to recall that blargg used a 1.4 gain default
06:23:39midkayJdGordon: oh, right. that one should look good.
06:23:44midkayJdGordon: what's the current "themes" one?
06:23:52JdGordonthe ->
06:23:58jhMikeShe determined that was safe at full output?
06:24:03JdGordonhavnt done that yet
06:24:20hcsjhMikeS: I don't know for sure, but he's very careful about that stuff so I'd think so.
06:24:30midkayJdGordon: ok, i don't think we really came up with anything is why..
06:24:55jhMikeS140% seems good at +3db
06:26:45midkayJdGordon: maybe this for themes.. i tried to make it look like one of those paint board things you hold when you paint.">
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06:27:23JdGordonhaha good job :)
06:27:34midkayhaha. :E does it look good?
06:27:56 Quit gromit` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:28:21JdGordonit looks.. um... interesting :) I dont think i would have guessed what it was...
06:28:44JdGordonthe themes icon should be the most warped and wierd icon out of them all
06:29:05midkayhcs: yes, that.. :)
06:29:30JdGordonlast thing really... what Icon should be used in the title of the setting screens?
06:29:37JdGordonthe circle from the menu? a ? ?
06:29:50midkaycircle from the menu?
06:30:01midkayoh.. erm.">
06:30:11midkaythe circle or the.. spanner.
06:30:33*JdGordon realsies he has the page open 3 times with 3 different icons
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06:35:26JdGordonodd... stupid setting screen doesnt want to show the icon
06:38:15 Join bun-bun [0] ("> please try it out... i rekon we can commit this as it is
06:40:29webguest50which source code do I need to apply the doom scroll patch
06:40:39webguest50I am totally lost here
06:41:37JdGordonadds 260bytes which is a bit annoying.. BUT WORTH IT :d
06:41:42JdGordon:D even
06:41:46JdGordonstupid little d
06:42:51 Quit webguest50 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
06:43:29midkayJdGordon: testing it now, :D
06:43:56*JdGordon wishes the player port would freeking die already
06:45:16midkayhaha. wasn't it planned to at some point?
06:45:59midkaygot an error on that patch, btw..
06:46:13perldiveri didnt
06:46:28perldiversound_menu.c is OK here
06:46:29midkaymacro MENUITEM_FUNCTION requires 5 arguments, only given 4..
06:46:40midkaythis may be fore the hardware EQ on the iPod 5Gs.
06:47:14JdGordoncould be
06:47:35midkayyou should fix this. line 88 of settings_menu.c
06:47:40JdGordonyeah thats it
06:47:45midkayand it seems hardware EQ system isn't even set up.
06:47:50JdGordonadd ,NOICON to that and it shold work
06:48:15JdGordonyeah, these icons only affect the menus which have been converted
06:48:20midkaygot it.
06:48:30JdGordonso its more incentive for me to get them finished
06:48:45jhMikeShcs: was something different between the patch and the cvs version besides formatting?
06:48:48midkayrockboxlogo.h - no such file...
06:49:05JdGordonI dont know how to ifdef this patch to work on the player :'(
06:49:11JdGordonmake clean && make
06:49:42hcsjhMikeS: I made that change I mentioned to the noise if in the arm section, that's all I recall
06:50:14midkayJdGordon: hmm.. can you ifdef the macros themselves? accept - but don't use - the BITMAP argument on players..
06:50:21midkaysame error on a make clean.
06:50:29hcsjhMikeS: ah, I moved things around in there a bit, but I don't have notes on any other changes
06:50:31jhMikeShrm...the boost is higher on the cvs version. will make sure I didn't goof something
06:50:44JdGordoncan you put #ifdef inside a macro expansion?
06:51:09 Part mightybrick
06:51:13midkayi don't see why not.. but i'm not sure :)
06:51:13JdGordonmidkay: that file is autogenerated... try rconfiguring and make veryclean
06:51:15hcsjhMikeS: nothing that should have affected things on coldfire
06:51:24jhMikeSJdGordon: preglow was trying that and getting frustrated
06:51:33jhMikeShcs: must be me then for some reason
06:51:36hcsoh, I did move that declaration as you suggested on the task
06:51:47midkayJdGordon: will try, thanks.
06:52:03jhMikeSshouldn't kill it like that
06:52:21hcsfeel free to fix whatever it is when you find it
06:52:26midkayJdGordon: same error, argh.
06:52:42midkayi may have modified this file accidentally, let me check.
06:53:06JdGordoni hate when that error happens...
06:53:16midkayit's same as SVN...
06:53:19JdGordonand no you cant put #ifdef 's inside macros
06:53:40midkayifdef the entire macro then.
06:53:57midkayifdef lcd_bitmap, use the bitmap, elif charcells, don't use the bitmap, endif.
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06:54:12perldiverbtw what happens when a patch gets into SVN, should it be "unpatched" 1st before svn update and compiling?
06:54:43JdGordonno, just svn up and you should be good
06:55:02perldiverok thanks
06:55:17JdGordonmidkay: they dont like the macros as they are.. I dont really want to make them any worse.. but i guess ill have to
06:55:40midkayJdGordon: yeah, it's messy.. maybe they should get their own file (how many are there? i have no idea).
06:56:34midkayoh, not that bad.
06:56:43JdGordonno... only 3
06:56:44midkay*still* getting this crappy error...
06:56:53midkaylet me re svn co..
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07:00:58JdGordonok, got it compinling :) wasnt all that bad after all
07:04:03midkayJdGordon: your patch is the rockboxlogo problem.
07:04:13JdGordoncant be
07:04:16midkayi fresh checkout'ed, compiled, worked.. applied your patch, and now i get the rockboxlogo error.
07:04:24perldiver/home/Denis/rockbox/apps/recorder/icons.h:28:25: error: rockboxlogo.h: No such f
07:04:24perldiverile or directory
07:04:24perldivermake[2]: *** [/home/Denis/rockbox/build_0213/apps/plugins/lib/configfile.o] Erro
07:04:24DBUGEnqueued KICK perldiver
07:04:24perldiverr 1
07:04:33perldiverhere you go
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07:04:40midkaythat one.
07:04:45JdGordonhmm... WTF?
07:04:51JdGordonshouldnt I be having that problem also then?
07:04:58CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
07:04:58*JdGordon cleans it
07:05:03midkaytry a fresh checkout and patch application.
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07:07:09JdGordonworks fine here
07:07:42midkaywhat targeT?
07:08:00JdGordonwere you only doing make bin?
07:08:03midkaytry a seperate ipod 5G build...
07:08:03JdGordonor a full make?
07:08:07midkayno, just make.
07:08:28JdGordonOH.. ok... bloody hell
07:08:31perldivermine is gigabeat btw
07:08:39JdGordonyeah, its the plugin lib
07:08:52JdGordonmaybe I cant actuall include icons.h in menu.h
07:10:23JdGordonall fixed
07:10:37*JdGordon wrapped ifndef PLUGIN around icons.h
07:11:11JdGordonnew patch is at the same link
07:12:00JdGordonsorry about that... im too impatient to do a full make every time i compile :p
07:12:26midkayhaha. np.
07:12:48***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:15:17midkayok, *tests*
07:16:22midkayi like this. it's too bad it only applies to some of the menus..
07:17:04JdGordonthe only really major one not done yet is display
07:17:17JdGordonwhich will be done maybe today or tomorow
07:18:01midkayi noticed you use arrows in the main menu in place of the manage settings, recent bookmarks, themes, plugins and info icons i gave you.. any reason?
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07:19:59JdGordonive been lazy and havnt done them yet :p
07:20:07midkayhaha, alright. :D
07:20:33midkayseems awesome though, actually useful (the pluses and bullets make it easy to see what's what)
07:20:46JdGordonwhat do you think abobut the arrows? Im not especially happy with it
07:21:05 Part Llorean
07:21:22JdGordonhehe scared him off
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07:22:14midkaythey are somewhat easily confused with pluses (i mean, you can interpret either to mean function or submenu)...
07:22:25 Quit ptw419 ()
07:22:27midkaywhat if "function" was a filled dot, and "setting" was an empty dot like it is now?
07:22:40midkaykind of a subtle visual thing, i think that'd work out well though.
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07:24:12midkay^ try this for functions, i think it will be perfect. does one go from low 70% boost to mid-80's boost without changing anything? wtf
07:24:47hcsactually did a diff or still taking my word for it?
07:26:02JdGordonmidkay: yeah, the dot works better than the arrow
07:26:24jhMikeShcs: was comparing sideXside and don't see any thing. will just do that
07:26:25midkayJdGordon: i think it's the perfect thing.. not distracting or confusing, just a subtle difference. :)
07:26:30midkaycan i have the code for it so i can try it?
07:26:36midkay(for the filled dot)
07:27:09JdGordonapps/recorder/icons.c line 67... { 0x00, 0x18, 0x3c, 0x3c, 0x18, 0x00 }
07:28:50JdGordonthe database submenu has both so you can see them side-by-side
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07:38:37JdGordonmidkay: ok, done! commit it you rekon? or actually get the ok first?
07:38:48midkayJdGordon: dots look perfect :)
07:39:03midkayJdGordon: done how? is display menu done?
07:39:15JdGordonthe icons are all done
07:39:30midkaycan i have a patch?
07:40:07JdGordonlink is updated
07:40:24JdGordonany menus not yet showing icons will be done automatically when they get comnverted
07:40:45midkayand how do i remove a patch, or what's the best way to apply this one when the old one's already on there?
07:41:21*amiconn usually does a patch -R with the old one, followed by patching in the new one
07:41:42JdGordonmorning amiconn
07:41:56JdGordonsvn revert -R . works for me
07:42:08perldiverso again, whan a patch gets into SVN, is -R needed before the update?
07:42:17perldiverany patch, not just this one
07:42:19amiconnThat reverts everything, which I wouldn't want
07:42:33JdGordonah, I usually only have 1 patch in a tree at a time
07:42:42*amiconn has several open changes most of the time
07:42:45JdGordonperldiver: either or.. up to you
07:43:00amiconnSome of them aren't meant to be committed
07:43:54JdGordonamiconn: check out">
07:44:04JdGordonmidkay and I have been having fun with this :)
07:44:35perldiverJdGordon too cute :)
07:44:48amiconnHmm, looks interesting...
07:44:56perldiverok testing on gigabeat
07:44:58amiconnIs there an option?
07:45:00midkayJdGordon: recent bookmarks, you're using the current SVN "doesn't have a blank last line" one and so it meshes with the sound settings icon - not nice..
07:45:14JdGordonamiconn: it uses the show icons option.. so it can be disabled
07:45:26amiconnah ok
07:45:32midkayyou should mayve just update the SVN one to use my version of the bookmarks icon (almost identical, just a line shorder)
07:45:41amiconnHow much does it add? I guess it's not that much
07:45:50JdGordonquite a few bmps
07:45:52amiconnOn recorder?
07:46:44amiconnThe big drawback with our icon system is that they are starting to look odd with both large and very small fonts
07:46:59midkayyeah, we talked about this earlier..
07:47:12amiconnHowever, I don't have an idea how to fix this and still have good looking icons at low resolutions
07:47:40JdGordonamiconn: same as the plugin bmps... generated at build time
07:47:46perldivermake the icon set target specific?
07:48:05amiconnVector icons would adapt automatically, but the low resolution output will look ugly
07:48:23amiconnJdGordon: That doesn't solve the font problem
07:48:42JdGordonno.. but...
07:48:52amiconnI think we should just stick with one icon resolution per target for now, and it should match the default font
07:48:58midkayi mentioned earlier that a good idea might be a few stock sets of icons - the current 6x8, then maybe 8x10 and 10x14 or something, so there's some rudimentary scaling, and then let icons be themable for anybody who wants to make it nicer..
07:49:22perldivermidkay nice idea
07:49:23amiconnSo if we decide to make a larger font the default e.g. on the G5 or gigabeat, we would need another set of icons
07:49:39amiconnBtw, does this patch convert the icons to the bmp build system?
07:49:55midkayno, but it was supposed to *glares at JdGordon* :)
07:50:28*JdGordon wishes he did it before starting... running bmp2rb is getting annoying
07:50:37JdGordonI think the icons are all done now tho
07:50:58amiconnThe same-size icons could all go into one bmp
07:51:31midkayand use bitmap_part..
07:51:45midkaythat'd make scaling much easier.
07:51:45amiconnmono_bitmap_part, yes
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07:52:08midkaybmp2rb allows for reversing the conversion, right? can you feed the hex stuff into it and get a bmp back?
07:52:52amiconnYou can draw all icons on the lcd, then use the screendump function
07:53:08midkaythat's true.
07:53:55amiconnHmm, themable icons could be done with a loadable BMP
07:54:06amiconnThe default icons would be built in (like the default font)
07:54:19JdGordonand they could be colour...
07:54:28amiconnThat requires some work, though
07:54:37JdGordon... commiting this unless someone says not to...
07:54:40amiconn...if we want it to adapt variable sizes
07:54:52midkaybuild in a few stock sets for larger fonts, and allow them to be replaced with on-disk bitmaps.
07:55:14amiconnWhy not just build in one set?
07:55:14JdGordon3 .... 2....
07:55:23amiconnThere's also just one default font
07:55:48amiconnThe status bar would need to adapt to variable font size
07:55:52midkayif someone chooses a larger font they probably want to see slightly larger icons, even if they're pretty rudimentary.
07:56:01midkayalthough it isn't that important i guess.
07:56:17amiconnYes, but then those larger icons could be provided as a BMP
07:56:45midkayah, smart.
07:56:53amiconnloadable font - loadable icons, built-in font - built-in icons
07:57:16midkayi think themability is the most important aspect at least.. no matter what rockbox comes with iconwise it should be changeable by the user.
07:57:29midkayJdGordon: commit troubles? :)
07:57:44JdGordonno.. checking the patch
07:57:51JdGordonand doing a long-winded message
07:57:55amiconnSlasheri: around?
07:58:03midkaylots of room for it anyways :)
07:58:36JdGordonactually. cbf with a long msg
07:58:48JdGordonrevision 12300 :)
07:59:04midkaynice number :)
07:59:19Slasheriamiconn: yes, but just going
07:59:31midkayJdGordon: are you doing \n in the message?
07:59:45JdGordonI did it on 2 lines..
07:59:55midkayoh, like in an editor.
08:00:09amiconnSlasheri: I think you should revert this endian-independence commit. The PC tool needs it, yes, but that wouldn't be under firmware/
08:00:17JdGordonsvn commit without any args loads the default editor
08:00:35amiconnI think the PC side is far more appropriate to adapt endianess than the target
08:00:39midkayhow do you svn revert?
08:00:48JdGordonsvn revert .
08:00:52JdGordon-R to recurse
08:00:59amiconnThe PC has far more cpu power and ram
08:01:02JdGordonsvn revert <path> actually
08:01:02midkayoh, that's it..
08:01:03Slasheriamiconn: hmm, at least i could ifdef that out from certain players
08:01:17midkayah, thanks.
08:01:56amiconnSlasheri: Why? What's the advantage of doing endian conversion on target when you can always do it on the PC?
08:02:54Slasheriit makes the format binary compatible for all players. i think you even said earlier that it should be binary-compatible :)
08:03:01amiconnI didn't test the code yet, but I expect it to slow down the database on target, and that's not what we want imo
08:03:16Slasheriamiconn: only if endian-conversion is needed
08:03:36Slasheriand that delay probably isn't noticeable
08:03:39amiconnI don't think I said that
08:03:49midkayokay, has anybody on any target (i'm using an iPod 5G) recently noticed that booting with usb plugged in will not enter USB mode, but freeze Rockbox?
08:03:57midkayit happened rather recently, not sure why.
08:04:05Slasheriamiconn: it has been long time of that, but at least some developer said that :)
08:04:30amiconnAnd even if we'd want binary compatibility, why not just define *one* endianess as the one for the database?
08:04:40amiconnWould save quite some code I think
08:04:57perldiverJdGordon love the icons look on the player
08:05:21Slasheriamiconn: endian-conversion would still be required on target, not really saving in code size and could make code even more complex
08:05:43Slasherinow correct endianess is detected at runtime and conversion done automatically when required
08:06:25amiconnWell, defining one endianess reduces code size and complexity
08:06:50Slasherihow would that reduce complexity? maybe code size that much that auto-detection is not needed
08:07:24Slasheriand using host endian by default should give the best performance
08:07:30amiconnThe target group with the same endianess as the one defined for the db wouldn't need any additional code compared to before your commit
08:08:11JerryLangegood job JdGordon love the icons
08:08:13amiconn..and the other one would just e.g. betoh16() / betoh32() unconditionally
08:08:23Slasheriyes, true. but the pctool would still require that same code, so why not to enable it for rockbox also (and disable for lowmem targets)
08:08:43amiconnWhy would the pc tool require this code?
08:08:57amiconnThe pc tool endianess is also known at build time
08:09:18Slasheriamiconn: doing betoh16() for a single struct variable at time? no way, if you check the code in tagcache.c
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08:10:04Slasherithere is no idea of using betoh* functions. That if any, makes the code _very_ complex
08:13:39amiconnWhere is SWAP_16 and SWAP_32 defined?
08:15:39Slasheriin system.h
08:15:45amiconnThese macros are meat for *compile time* conversion
08:15:59amiconnLive conversions should use swap16() and swap32()
08:16:06Slasheriah, that can be fixed
08:16:25Slasherithat new subsystem makes endian conversions fully transparent
08:17:02amiconnDoes it also work for misaligned struct members (packed structs)?
08:17:02hcsjhMikeS: so, what's the conclusion?
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08:17:55midkayJdGordon: hey, my file view icon isn't here!!
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08:18:39Slasheriamiconn: atm, no
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08:19:10JdGordonmidkay: .... you can add it yourself if you want :p i want to start work on another patch
08:19:32Slasheriso struct members should be padded so that they are correctly aligned
08:19:38midkayJdGordon: you jerk. :D
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08:20:22amiconnSlasheri: If it would work for packed structs, it could be used in other places, like the fat code and the bmp loader. Then it wouldn't be such a waste...
08:20:32midkayit works/looks great though, thanks for the chance to collaborate :)
08:21:12Slasheriamiconn: yeah, i thought too it could be useful. Sure it can be made to work
08:21:32Slasherijust a few more instructions of code
08:21:42JdGordonmidkay: couldnt have done it without you :)
08:22:17midkayvice-versa, hope the menu changes all work out.. *heads back to clock patch* :D
08:23:53JdGordonmidkay: not done with you just yet tho.. gonna need some more icons for the root menu.. but later...
08:24:26midkaythat's cool, looking forward to it.
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08:35:47amiconnSlasheri: Btw, your structec code will also break on 64 bit sims
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08:48:42JdGordonwoot :D we can exit the browsers with the standard cancel buttons, and force it to stop at the / folder :)
08:48:57JdGordonwhoever did the actions code should be commended for such brilliant foresight :p
08:49:00JdGordonor something :D
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08:53:46midkaynah, i've talked to him and i can tell you that he's a pretty big idiot. :)
08:53:49midkayjust kidding!!!!!
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09:00:05amiconnHung build...
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09:09:50jhMikeShcs: I must have jump the gun on what I thought I was getting...can't see any difference in codecs
09:10:15hcsI went ahead and took the scaling out for now
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09:12:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:13:14jhMikeShcs: I did take a good dent of 5% boost out by doing some optimizing on the core resampler
09:13:23jhMikeSthat's for real cause it's running now :)
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09:15:15hcsjhMikeS: coldfire asm only?
09:21:40jhMikeSc code not in IRAM
09:21:54hcsoh, nice
09:22:30jhMikeShcs: you know, the dsp does it's own clipping so the final mix clipping shouldn't be needed actually
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09:23:16hcsafter summing the voices?
09:24:24hcswhere is the unnecessary clipping done?
09:24:39hcsoooh, I get it
09:24:47hcs"the dsp" being the rockbox dsp
09:25:14jhMikeSright :)
09:25:34hcstrue enough, ok, we can save a little there
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09:32:50hcsjhMikeS: I'm to bed, have an interview at 11:30 Eastern, put the improvements up and I'll check 'em out on the ipod.
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09:43:14linuxstbJdGordon: From reading the RootMenu wiki, am I right in thinking that LEFT will now exit the browsers to the root menu, but LEFT+REPEAT won't?
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09:56:37LinusNlinuxstb: looks like it
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10:16:25amiconnLinusN: Hung build...
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10:17:00amiconn"Build expected to complete around 07:54:36 (in 8mins 11secs)"
10:17:07amiconnIt's already 09:16 UTC
10:18:27JdGordonlinuxstb: yes
10:22:23linuxstbJdGordon: Good, I'm happy with that.
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10:23:08JdGordonive got 1 little bug with it tho, you atm always have to press off twice to get out of it.. but ill fix that
10:23:19linuxstbJdGordon: Have you rejected the other options I suggested for the root menu? Namely Playlists and System?
10:23:44LinusNJdGordon: care to update the root menu patch? it faisl to apply after the menu icon changes
10:24:36JdGordonlinuxstb: i dont know what im dong about them yet... i was hopeing everyone would argue and come up with 1 plan.. there are 3 tho on the wiki
10:24:45JdGordonLinusN: coming right up...">
10:25:38LinusNamiconn: really odd... the build seems to have completed just fine...
10:26:22JdGordonno sources zip...
10:26:28JdGordondid that crash maybe?
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10:29:33barrywardelli like linuxstb's suggested menu layout
10:30:44*JdGordon back in an hour
10:34:39JerryLangeis there a place to read about the two menu layouts suggested?
10:35:17linuxstbThe RootMenu wiki page.
10:35:54JerryLangethanks found it
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10:45:22JerryLangei like the idea of the sleep timer in the system option.
10:46:14XavierGrleft will exit the browsers? Like, when I am in a folder and press left It will move to the root menu instead of the previous folder?
10:46:36LinusNXavierGr: only when you are in the root dir, of course
10:46:48XavierGrthat explains it
10:47:05XavierGrphew! For one moment I thought that I will have to Left+repeat to exit a folder
10:47:44LinusNit's the same thing as when the browser doesn't wrap when you hold the up/down button
10:49:09XavierGrJdGordon: Please consider to change the left = cancel (and messagebox) in the settings menu. (if they are related)
10:49:24XavierGror let's talk about it, I really hate that message box :P
10:49:55LinusNthe left-to-root doesn't really wosr as expected
10:50:06LinusNyou have to press Left twice
10:50:21LinusNif you have been in a subdir
10:51:15XavierGrnoooo! My VMware image says that the virtual disk is corrupted! :(
10:52:12LinusNannoying: Play doesn't resume in the root menu
10:53:13amiconnShould it?
10:53:16scorcheXavierGr: yours or the rockbox image?
10:53:22*amiconn didn't try the root menu patch yet
10:53:24LinusNamiconn: i think so
10:54:10XavierGrmy vmware image. It was working fine until I got a message that my filesystem is read-only, then rebooted and it reports that the disk is corrupted
10:54:20scorcheok =)
10:54:35XavierGrmy vmware image = vmware image 1 (or 2 I am not sure)
10:54:39scorchei mean sorry about your image >_>
10:54:44scorchedoes it have X?
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10:55:18JerryLangefor the root menu layougs. there are some good points in both of the suggestions. i like the first suggestion the most but i like the "database" being called "Music Libiary"
10:55:28beckHow could I leave the root menu and go to where it's been called from?
10:55:49amiconnJerryLange: 'Music' doesn't cover e.g. audio books or podcasts
10:55:51XavierGrscorche: yes it was the first that had X (the one with flux box that I made at that time)
10:55:58*scorche thinks all these names sound too "commercial"
10:56:06scorcheXavierGr: then 2 it is
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10:56:28XavierGryeah probably
10:56:36JerryLangeamiconn: what do they go under then?
10:56:58LinusNJerryLange: "database"
10:57:08Mikachuyou could call it "Frobozz Audio Manager"
10:57:21LinusNMikachu: great idea! :-)
10:57:38JerryLangeso "music libiary" covers only music while the "database" covers all?
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10:58:02LinusNJerryLange: amiconn's point is that "Music Library" implies music only, and not spoken content
10:58:12XavierGrI have to agree that Database is better
10:58:37Mikachuwhen i see "Database" i don't think "ah, this is where my music is"
10:58:44LinusNwhy call it "music library" when it can contain any type of audio?
10:58:55XavierGrMikachu: you will get used to it :P
10:59:09B4gderI think we should call it "Music, talks, podcast and other content that is audio-related library"
10:59:29JerryLangeLinusN: was that a point towards or againts the "Music libiary" name?
10:59:31B4gderstands out too!
10:59:42LinusNJerryLange: against, of course
11:00:11scorcheB4gder: how do you propose we display that on the player on one screen? =P
11:00:16JerryLange"audio libiary" then ?
11:00:27LinusNJerryLange: better
11:00:33scorcheMTPAOCITA Library =)
11:00:40B4gderscorche: yes, scrolling!
11:01:04JerryLangescorche: everybody will understand that when the firrst load rockbox :)
11:01:07LinusNwhat is it called on the ipod?
11:01:22MikachuMusic i think
11:01:29Mikachuthey have a separate database for audiobooks and podcasts
11:01:31JerryLangeeither LIbiary or Music libiary i believe or Makachu is correct
11:01:31B4gderon the sansa it is "Music" I think
11:01:50JerryLangewhat about just Audio?
11:02:04LinusNstill, i don't think anyone would think that "Music Library" would be unable to contain spoken content
11:02:15Mikachudon't underestimate users
11:02:28scorchethe "library" term is so overused
11:02:39LinusNMikachu: don't overestimate users :-)
11:03:03Mikachulibrary means "collection of books" so it's not really better than Music :)
11:03:13Winchester341I was afk... but.... why is there such a big fuss over what to call it?
11:04:00Winchester341official firmware usually uses Music, doesn't it?
11:04:17LinusNi am fine with Music, actually
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11:04:42JerryLangeLinusN: sounds good to me.
11:05:52JerryLangei noticed something. when going in the settings menu to the dircache if you cancle the setting it resets (sets the option reset to yes) and you have to restart your player (this is with the h120)
11:06:01Winchester341..... will it contain videos too? >.>
11:06:15LinusNwe want to distinguish between the database and the browser, but i guess "Files" and "Music" is a decent distinction
11:06:41linuxstbBut Database is no more "Music" than the File Browser is...
11:07:04Winchester341'Music database'?
11:07:49JerryLangewhat about just "Libiary"
11:08:06LinusNJerryLange: or "Database"
11:08:08linuxstbI'm happy with Database. Library would be OK too though.
11:08:10Winchester341makes me think of books
11:08:30LinusNto me, Library is just as vague as Database
11:08:31Mikachu"browse by tags"?
11:08:35JerryLangegood point
11:09:29JerryLangewell now i'm for database
11:09:37fejfighterdatabase: our sorted music for the lazy peope, Files: sorted byt the more ocd user :P
11:09:38LinusNback to square 1 :-)
11:09:42Winchester341what's wrong with Audio or Audio-media though?
11:10:08Winchester341put up a poll =)
11:10:21LinusNi think Database is a good description of what it actually is - a database
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11:10:37JerryLangewhat about videos you have on your player? these are in the database also ?
11:10:50Winchester341'Audio database'?
11:11:23JerryLangeare they ever going to be?
11:11:32LinusNi doubt it
11:11:44Mikachuit doesn't make sense to me to have videos in a playlist with audio files
11:12:11BigBambiJerryLange, to me (using the file browser) it would feel wrong to select an item other than Music to get to my music
11:12:18beckWhy not use 'Audio library' instead of 'Music library'?
11:12:32XavierGrI like the database name
11:12:38*BigBambi too
11:12:38XavierGrbut audio database is good too
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11:12:52XavierGrjust not Music database, or music library
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11:12:58perplexityLast thing you want is to be on a plane, have Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon finish up and have the player launch into Debbie Does Dallas.. that would do bad things to your dream state and likely upset the woman sitting next to you
11:13:11JerryLangegood point bambi
11:13:19BigBambiAudio database is fine, I just don't want to see Music and have to click on saomething else to get to my music
11:13:20LinusNperplexity: i can imagine that :-)
11:13:25XavierGrHah File System fixed after I fscked my self 10 times
11:13:34Winchester341you have devvie does dallas on your player? O_o
11:13:52perplexityWinchester341...umm .... can I take the 5th ? ;)
11:14:10JerryLangeBigBambi: could you explain what you mean more
11:14:37BigBambiI haven't got an iPod, so have never used the database - I organise my files myself and use the filebrowser
11:14:44LinusNBigBambi: i didn't really understand that
11:15:14LinusNBigBambi: then i guess you would use the file browser and not select Music
11:15:20BigBambiSo in the root menu, if the first two options are music then filebrowser, having an option that says music that has nothing to do with my music feels odd
11:15:29linuxstbI think it's pretty obvious to users what "Database" is after they select it...
11:15:35BigBambiSure, I understand what to click
11:15:38BigBambiIt just feels odd
11:15:40LinusNlinuxstb: i do too
11:15:51JerryLangei only use the file browser also
11:15:59BigBambiI thionk anything like Database, Music Database, etc is fine
11:16:50LinusNbtw, should we hide the Database entry if there is no database present?
11:16:51BigBambiAnyone understand me, or am I still waffling :)
11:17:03LinusNBigBambi: i follow you
11:17:11JerryLangeyes i see what you mean
11:17:29Winchester341so then most people agree on Database?
11:17:44BigBambiLinusN: I'm not sure about hiding it, as whilst I don't use it, I think it'd help newcomers to click on it and get a message saying plase initialise or something
11:18:26LinusNyes, perhaps that is a good idea
11:18:30linuxstbLinusN: My thoughts are that we should keep it there so that new users (especially those where the original firmware hides/obfuscates the files) can see the option.
11:18:43BigBambiI agree
11:18:55JerryLangei was thinking about the suggestion about hiding it, but then i was reading about the blind users and the ease of use fo them if it was kept there.
11:19:06BigBambiThere is that too
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11:20:16LinusNi'm beginning to like the root menu
11:20:44*linuxstb too
11:20:49BigBambiYeah, I didn't see the need at first, but I think it gives a nice feel to Rockbox
11:20:55linuxstbAlthough it is starting to feel a bit ipod-like...
11:21:04BigBambilol, yeah - and that is bad
11:21:20LinusNand if we fix it so the Menu button always takes you to the root, it will probably be pretty useful
11:21:21*BigBambi hugs his H140
11:21:53linuxstbYes, that's something Apple doesn't do (afaik) - no shortcuts between parts of the menu hierarchy.
11:22:02LinusNand Play always takes you to the current playback screen (WPS/FM)
11:22:14BigBambiI like that idea too
11:22:22linuxstbI'm not sure about that one - PLAY on a CD player doesn't play the radio...
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11:22:24JerryLangelike that idea also
11:22:45linuxstbBut as I don't really use the radio, it won't affect me...
11:22:46peturthe disadvantage is that if you're somewhere in the filetree and want to change a setting, you end up back in the root
11:23:13LinusNpetur: no, the file browser always goes to the last dir
11:23:20Winchester341wow..... the naming here gets really pedantic =/
11:23:36BigBambiGot to be correct :)
11:23:56LinusNWinchester341: yes, but there is a good reason, since we don't want to change it too often
11:23:56JerryLangedoes the ipod video have a radio?
11:24:10LinusNJerryLange: no
11:24:32Mikachuthey wouldn't sell any radio accessories that way
11:24:38peturso pressing right in rootmenu (on filebrowser) goes to some subdir, pressing left navigates up in the tree? Errrr
11:25:21LinusNpetur: yes, but we could easily remove the Right button and force the user to use Select
11:25:31LinusNthen it wouldn't be confusing
11:26:01JerryLangei like using the right button to go in the sub directory
11:26:02 Quit norbusan (Client Quit)
11:26:43LinusNpetur: it's no different from hwo it is today when you enter the browser from the WPS
11:26:51LinusNhow even
11:26:58beckHmm... What about 'Audio catalog' for database?
11:27:15Winchester341oooh.... fresh thinking
11:27:21LinusNhmmm, catalog is not that bad
11:27:35peturLinusN: except that you'd feel the rootmenu as being one level above the diskroot
11:27:37amiconnLinusN: Btw, what's your opinion regarding the endianess stuff?
11:27:56LinusNstill, i don't think the Database name *needs* to be intuitive
11:28:18LinusNamiconn: i haven't cared about it so i have no real opinion :-)
11:28:46LinusNpetur: because of the left-to-root?
11:28:48barrywardellJdGordon: with your latest root menu patch I can't go into the file browser while there is a file playing
11:28:50beckSince that's what it is. If you go to the library (in the real world) and searches for a book what do you use? A catalog.
11:28:51Winchester341Just call it Audio catalog and never look back on it ever again
11:29:00barrywardellit briefly goes to the file browser then back to the WPS
11:29:09barrywardelltesting on H10 sim
11:29:15LinusNbarrywardell: use Menu to leave the wps
11:29:26LinusN(if there is such a button on the h10)
11:29:30barrywardellthere is
11:29:46barrywardellbut selecting file browser briefly shows it, then jumps to the WPS
11:29:47peturLinusN: no, because from the rootmenu it feels like moving down the tree, except you may not end one level down but several (depending on where you were
11:30:19LinusNpetur: but don't you think it is pretty obvious to the user what is happening?
11:30:21XavierGrI have mixed feelings about it
11:30:31XavierGrmainly for the buttons
11:30:45LinusNyou select "File browser" and end up in the last dir you browsed
11:31:09JerryLangethat would be very nice
11:31:19peturif it gets too confusing we can still make it a setting :p
11:31:23LinusNi can't see how it would be confusing to anyone
11:32:19LinusNbut i *can* see how always beginning in the root would be a total annoyance
11:32:26barrywardellanyway, gotta go. that problem can be reproduced in the H10 sim if someone wants to try figure it out.
11:32:52JerryLangeyes. espically when you want to sort files in a certin directory or something else similar.
11:32:58LinusNJerryLange: that is actually how it works today
11:33:20XavierGrcurrent inconsistencies: When in settings menu: pressing play, mode or stop all goes one level off
11:33:51JerryLangeoh ok
11:33:56peturLinusN: I see. Anyway, if the user navigated back to rootmenu using left (as if in a tree) it would not confuse, so nevermind me ;)
11:34:09XavierGrIMHO left should exit a submenu, stop bring you to the root menu (or mode) and play should bring you to WPS right?
11:34:19LinusNXavierGr: which platform?
11:34:31peturstop stops playback while in the browser
11:35:04XavierGralso if the user is in the root menu or a settings menu he can't stop the music
11:35:08LinusNXavierGr: Menu (that is Mode, right?) should take you to the root
11:35:27XavierGragain, I think that stop should stop playback nearly everywhere
11:35:38XavierGr(or at least at main menus)
11:35:51petur[11:35] <XavierGr> IMHO left should exit a submenu, stop bring you to the root menu (or mode) and play should bring you to WPS right?
11:36:01petur"stop bring you to the root menu"
11:36:08XavierGror that
11:36:12XavierGrand then stop music
11:36:21JerryLangei like stop stoping playback while in the file browser
11:36:48JerryLangeusing the stop button
11:36:54peturbut then there's no way to cancel a setting if left also accepts
11:37:19XavierGryes you are right on that
11:37:22peturI'd like to keep music playing while changing settings
11:37:23JerryLangei thought left was cancle?
11:37:31XavierGryes it is
11:37:34XavierGrand it is annoying
11:37:36LinusNis there really a need to cancel a setting?
11:37:49XavierGrespecially the damn message box that pops up saying cancelled
11:37:50peturleft to cancel is ok for me
11:37:57peturthe message is not ;)
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11:38:19JerryLangei agree
11:38:20XavierGrLinus, go to a settings submenu and press A-B
11:38:41*scorche foresees many "i changed a setting and it never applied!" posts
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11:39:05LinusNXavierGr: i have an ipod today, no A/B button
11:39:15XavierGrLinus: currently it will not bring the root menu it will just back out from the current menu that you are viewing
11:39:33brainiac_ghostLinus: are you the guy that made linux ;)#
11:39:35LinusNXavierGr: yes, the Menu->Root is not implemented
11:39:39XavierGrwhich buttong brings the root menu on your ipod?
11:39:44LinusNbrainiac_ghost: unfortunately not
11:39:52brainiac_ghostLinusN: meh :(
11:40:05LinusNi get that question a lot :-)
11:40:19LinusNXavierGr: as i said: not implemented yet
11:40:29scorchelinus isnt that rare of a name is it?
11:40:35LinusNnot in sweden
11:41:11peturLinusN: if rootmenu_browser brings you to the last location, do we do the same thing for settings or will menu inside settings not bring you to the rootmenu?
11:41:17LinusNXavierGr: Menu on the ipod takes you one level back in the current implementation, but i suggest that it should take you directly to the root
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11:41:33XavierGrwhere is amiconn to agree with me on removing the left = cancel in menus? :P
11:41:37XavierGrLinus: I agree
11:41:37LinusNpetur: that would probably not be equally intuitive
11:41:47peturah well
11:42:22LinusNi want to remove the possibility to cancel a setting altogether
11:42:40XavierGrwe should really utilize the record button on H100/H300
11:43:11LinusNXavierGr: i think that could be used to enter the recording screen, don't you think?
11:43:27JerryLangewhat happens is a lot of users like a option but most of the developers hate it? what happens to the option?
11:43:50scorcheit doesnt enter svn typically
11:44:02scorcheit stays as a patch in the tracker
11:44:20JerryLangejust like the left to go to wps while in root menu?
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11:44:32XavierGrLinus: I second that too
11:44:45BigBambiI'm a user and I hate left to wps :)
11:44:53peturXavierGr: there's a patch to use it as a configurable quick-jump (mostly the recording users like that)
11:45:12XavierGryay now I am locked into the database mode!
11:45:29XavierGrwhile playing NAVI (select) will go to database
11:45:36JerryLangei am a user and i hate left to wps as well
11:45:40XavierGrthen nave will select a submenu
11:45:55XavierGrthen in my attempt to exit I pressed stop
11:46:08XavierGrstop stopped music and now I am locked into the database
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11:46:33XavierGrMode (A-B) brought me back to root menu
11:47:42XavierGrit is starting to be quite complicated
11:48:21XavierGrI liked the old behaviour that if you pressed a button to go to a specific screen, then the same would bring you to the previous
11:48:31XavierGrthough at times in can be confusing too
11:48:46XavierGrargh too many screens, too many actions!!
11:49:01LinusNeither way takes some getting used to, but rockbox in general takes some getting used to
11:49:57LinusNi believe in consistency, and i think in this case, Menu always taking you to the root menu is a good thing
11:50:10XavierGrI agree
11:50:29LinusNit's a catch-all, foolproof action
11:50:35LinusNyou always know where you end up
11:51:18 Quit barrywardell (Remote closed the connection)
11:52:27JerryLangewell im outta here. see you guys later.
11:52:46LinusNi like the root menu mainly because it is more clear what is happening, and less "secret-handshake" navigation
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11:53:36XavierGrWell I like that it turns out to have a small GUI implementation without clogging up the whole system and screen
11:53:57linuxstbYes, and we don't lose much of the existing behaviour either. i.e. we still have the shortcuts between browser and WPS.
11:54:54LinusNand in the future, a theme could change the icons, and maybe even use a grid of icons instead of a menu
11:55:31XavierGrhave to run
11:55:37LinusNmy feeling is that the root menu lets the user feel more in control
11:55:39XavierGrnice talking on the root menu patch
11:56:35LinusNi also think there is room for a Playlists entry, for the playlist catalog
11:58:03linuxstbWhat about a catch-all "System" entry as well, for things currently in the settings menu (e.g. Info, Sleep timer) which aren't really settings.
11:59:02peturmultiple settings screens/locations is confusing - iriver OF does that too and I found myself entering them all to search
11:59:25linuxstbYes, I'm always searching for settings in Rockbox...
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11:59:56linuxstbBut reorganising the settings menu is a problem for later...
12:00:54brainiac_ghostpijulius's themes are pretty good
12:03:18LinusNnever tried them
12:04:23peturbuild hanging again?
12:05:22*petur runs off for some shopping & lunch
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12:13:53scorchehave we passed OF in battery life yet on the X5s?
12:13:58JdGordonbloody hell you guys talk alot :D
12:14:17JdGordonLinusN: you menitoened having to press off twice.. yeah, im going to red how that is done
12:14:25BigBambiIt because I've got better things to do
12:14:36BigBambiAnd am avoiding doing them :(
12:15:37linuxstbJdGordon: What have you decided to do with NAVI/Select in the WPS? Is the browser configurable, or will it take you to the last-used browser?
12:15:47JdGordonlast used browser
12:15:55JdGordonwhich is basically the same as configuralbe anyway
12:15:59linuxstbIs that saved over reboots?
12:16:11JdGordonit _could_ be tho...
12:16:23linuxstbCould go in the "global status" or whatever struct and nvram...
12:17:01JdGordonI think doing the same thing with play from any screen to the last of wps/fm/rec is ood also
12:17:35linuxstbI'm not convinced about that one - I like PLAY meaning "resume playback" (which wouldn't include FM).
12:17:45scorcheor better yet, does anyone know what the current (no pun intended) status is on the x5 battery consumption? (there is no x5 runtime wiki page)
12:18:17JdGordonlinuxstb: well it does resume playback.. its just the radio playing back not mp3s... I dont see a difference
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12:18:35linuxstbWhat does your Radio/CD player do when you press the PLAY button?
12:18:57JdGordondepends which i press... my remote has one for each
12:19:05linuxstbIt's a way to start playback - so if you're listening to radio, PLAY will stop the radio and start playback from files.
12:19:39JdGordonwhy? play from the browser doesnt mean start the highlitghed track... it means take me back to the music screen
12:19:41linuxstbMaking buttons do too much will just get confusing IMO.
12:20:42JdGordonI dont think the user would get confused
12:21:13linuxstbNo, but it removes the consistency of PLAY starting audio playback from files - which is Rockbox's main feature...
12:22:16JdGordonIf nothing is playing the I agree... but if you entered the browser "from" the radio, you should expect to return to it
12:23:17linuxstbSo NAVI/SELECT in the radio screen takes you to the browser?
12:23:48JdGordonim not sure :p
12:23:52linuxstbI thought it shows the preset list.
12:24:07JdGordonif it does, then ok, ignore all this
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12:30:59*JdGordon forgot how to do the TIME_BEFORE() stuff :p
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12:34:24LinusNlinuxstb: Play has never been about playing files, it has always meant Resume
12:35:23LinusNi think Play->currently active playback screen would be fine
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12:36:13LinusNbut then again, i don't use the radio that much
12:36:36LinusNbut i suspect that you would want to get back to the radio screen just as easily as to the wps
12:38:06JdGordonis the daily or svn?
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12:39:42SoapJdGordon: I'm sorry if I came off as argumentatitve in the RootMenu wiki - I wrote that while at work since I never seem to see you in IRC, but then I come home and we're both on IRC at the same time.
12:39:56JdGordonIm wondering if the install instructions need fixing.. im surprosed one of my very geeky friend is having trouble getting it going!
12:40:28JdGordonSoap: dw bout it... i like arumentative ppl
12:40:39JdGordonunless they are like my brother and never listen to the other person!
12:41:01SoapOne last comment on the menu actions from someone with no pull:
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12:42:06JdGordonoh no!! heres trouble :p
12:42:10SoapI really like the fact that with Root Menu finally (almost?) every screen in Rockbox now be viewed as part of one tree. There may be shortcuts between far-flung brances, but that is all the better.
12:42:58LinusNSoap: i agree
12:43:04SoapI really do wish, though (and I am going to speak from the perspective of an iPod user) that Left _always_ took you "down" the tree (towards the root) and that right _always_ took you up the tree (towards the branches)
12:43:20Soapand that you had to use an action button (select) to make any changes.
12:43:42Soapin other words, right never accepts, and left never cancels. Select=action=toggles.
12:44:02Mikachuleft and right don't do anything in the apple firmware in menus though
12:44:02SoapRight and Left = navigation in the tree only.
12:44:06Mikachuyou have to use select and menu
12:44:07markunJdGordon: what's the difference between the + and the black dot icons? (crossfeed vs EQ)
12:44:12SoapFuck the apple firmware ;)
12:45:00JdGordonmarkun: dot is for functions, + is sub menus... it just means i havnt converted the eq menu yet
12:45:04SoapApple firmware never made sense to me. sometimes Select was a navigation button, sometimes it was an action button.
12:45:37SoapI guess I'm thinking like a joystick. Navigation and fire being seperate.
12:45:43markunJdGordon: ah, so it should also be + for the EQ right?
12:45:45LinusNSoap: you mean you would not be able to leave a setting with Left?
12:45:51JdGordonmarkun: yeah
12:46:05SoapLinusN: you could leave a setting with left - but it wouldn't be cancel the changes.
12:46:27LinusNthen i agree, i don't think the Cancel functionality is needed at all
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12:47:20JdGordonLinusN: yeah, time to change the setting screen keys to make left not bloody cancel
12:47:25SoapIf I walk into a room, perform an action, walking out of the room backwards shouldn't change what I have or haven't done.
12:47:40linuxstbAlthough "cancel" in the more complicated screens such as EQ and colour picker is useful (but left/right are used differently in those screens anyway).
12:47:47LinusNSoap: interesting analogy :-)
12:48:06*JdGordon found a problem with the action system
12:48:17LinusNJdGordon: oh...
12:48:23JdGordonI cant remember how to get debouncing working with TIME_AFTER() :'(
12:49:12JdGordonsuch simple code and its beyond me tonight :p
12:49:19SoapIt's a poopy analogy, I just like the idea of being able to simply explain to people that navigation and action are totaly seperated.
12:49:51linuxstbSoap: So RIGHT on a file wouldn't play it?
12:50:08Soaponly the action button.
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12:50:39linuxstbOn the ipods, I find it easier to use left/right for navigation - using the middle button means moving your thumb.
12:51:17JdGordoncheers... search in the wiki is useless
12:51:24scorcheJdGordon: is there any possiblility of creating a "home screen" option?...a setting where you can choose which screen to boot into?
12:51:35Soaplinuxstb, I don't like the fact that "slips" in fast navigation can perform an action.
12:51:39JdGordonscorche: done already
12:51:46scorchealright....good =)
12:52:18LinusNSoap: i agree with you, it's unfortunate that we have mapped the same function to many buttons
12:53:09Lynx_Has anything actually happened with the Austria Microsystems thing? The Wiki entry has not changed in quit a while...
12:53:42 Quit safetydan ("Ex-Chat")
12:53:48B4gderLynx_: nothing seems to have happened there, there hasn't been any meeting yet
12:53:50B4gderand no docs
12:53:57Lynx_hmm, ok
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12:56:09LinusNJdGordon: there is something weird with the Start Screen option
12:56:12Nico_PLinusN: would you agree on having cuesheet support committed in its current state ? (i.e. without metadata on buffer)
12:56:37Nico_Psorry to bring it up again, but i'd like to be able to move on
12:56:57JdGordonLinusN: what wierdness?
12:57:01LinusNi believe so, better have it in svn than letting it rot waiting for MiB
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12:57:31LinusNJdGordon: i select Settings->Display->Start Screen
12:57:52LinusNJdGordon: i then get a list of screens, including "Start Screen"
12:58:05Nico_Pi noticed that too
12:58:15JdGordonoh.. thats just me not using a seperate lang.. ill fix that
12:58:16Nico_Pi was confused by this setting
12:58:26LinusNJdGordon: and if i select that one, i'm back to the Display settings again
12:58:48LinusNhmmm, meybe i understand now...
12:58:52LinusNmaybe, even
12:59:03JdGordonthats the #1 reason why i wanted icons in the menus... the user now knows whats a setting and what isnt
12:59:39LinusNi think the menu icons are a tad confusing
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13:00:21JdGordonhow so?
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13:01:31LinusNsome categories have a separate icon, like the display settings, and some have a "+" icon
13:02:11JdGordonmy feeling was that the major menus should get their own... midkay went a bit overboard :)
13:02:13LinusNi think the icons should be consistent
13:03:00LinusNi.e only the +, the circle and the dot
13:03:25JdGordonthats boooring tho :D
13:05:00Nico_PLinusN: all the items that have special icons seem to be submenus... i don't find it confusing
13:05:05Nico_Pi find it nice to look at :)
13:05:42Nico_PJdGordon: when are you goinf to commit the root menu ?
13:05:49LinusNperhaps, but the "top level" of settings have separate icons for the categories except File View
13:05:59LinusNwhich has a +
13:06:29Nico_Pthen we need an icon for file view :)
13:06:31JdGordonLinusN: midkay had one for that menu as well, i can commit it
13:06:41LinusNi like the fact that the + means that there is another level
13:06:41JdGordonNico_P: when its done :p
13:07:02Nico_PJdGordon: what's left to be done ?
13:07:26LinusNbut if the top categories all had separate icons, it would probably be just as good
13:07:39JdGordonthe language, items and order.. and some tiny bugs
13:08:38JdGordonyay.. got the stopping in / working... finally :p
13:08:45Nico_PLinusN: could i get commit access to svn so i can commit cuesheet myself instead of having to bug someone to do it ?
13:10:01JdGordoncrud... what did we agree on for play? shortcut to last music screen or just wps?
13:11:37Nico_PJdGordon: it looks like when i reset the fg/bg colors and then switch my player off, the setting isn't saved
13:11:50linuxstbI happy to concede to last screen...
13:13:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:13:38JdGordonare we including the recording screen as a music screen?
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13:14:06LinusNJdGordon: i won't
13:14:40JdGordonwont concede? or include rec?
13:14:59LinusNi don't think recording is a "music screen"
13:15:25LinusNfor example, you don't leave that screen while still in action, so there is no "resume" per se
13:16:45*JdGordon doesnt think he has ever recorded
13:16:45LinusNand i don't think you would want to start recording when you press Play just because it was the last screen you were in
13:17:44linuxstbWhich reminds me, the "Recording Screen" entry in the root menu takes you directly to the recording screen, but there is still the recording entry in the settings menu, which takes you to the "Recording Settings / Recording Screen" menu.
13:18:02JdGordonyes, no biggee... im gong to leave that for the moment
13:18:09JdGordonno point reworking that menu item twice
13:19:12JdGordonin that case..... ladies (?) and gentlemen... I tihnk we have an RC ?">
13:20:42*markun can't wait to see all the angy people comming in here :)
13:20:45JdGordonminus some items
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13:23:00*JdGordon apologises if I missed anything from the 2 hours of convo that happened while i was watching tv :p
13:24:37markunJdGordon: maybe you should just commit it if you think it works more or less. More people will try it and can give suggestions on how it could be improved.
13:25:13JdGordonId like us to at least agree its good to go
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13:29:41JdGordonand the obligatory filesize comparison..... up by 1500 bytes :'(
13:30:22JdGordondunno how the heck that happened :p
13:30:24beckThere is another patch (FS #5049) about startup screen. It should be closed when root menu gets committed.
13:30:57LinusNJdGordon: amiconn will burn you alive :-)
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13:31:09JdGordonno way... im the only one bringint it down atm....
13:31:22JdGordonbut yeah..
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13:31:35JdGordonsomeone get 10 commits ready so its off the main page before he sees :D
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13:31:54LinusNi'd like the menu->root functionality before committing it, as i think that is kind of key to the concept (imho)
13:32:05preglowamiconn: did i, now
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13:32:30JdGordonwhere does menu not take you to root?
13:32:44zakenayoare there any known problems with recent builds for the iRiver H140?
13:32:47preglowamiconn: that was probably before sound even worked in the 64 bit sim here, so i couldn't test it
13:32:55zakenayobecause I keep getting the -1 error
13:33:26JdGordonLinusN: i just checked every screen... unless i missed one?
13:33:32zakenayoand the .rockbox and rockbox.iriver files are in the root OK
13:33:51JdGordonexcept the set setting screen
13:34:04JdGordonand deep in the menus...
13:34:06*JdGordon fixes
13:34:09LinusNJdGordon: that's what i mean
13:34:33 Join norbusan [0] (
13:34:39LinusNJdGordon: do you think Play should take you to the playback screen from the root menu?
13:34:43 Part norbusan
13:34:59LinusNJdGordon: because now it doesn't (ipod video)
13:35:15JdGordonI guess so
13:35:24JdGordonits the same code as the menus... so they proably dont either
13:35:40LinusNi see
13:36:06JdGordonremember i said RC?? well that was very wishful thinking :p
13:36:18JdGordonI forgot to fix the main_menu() function to return the right values
13:36:43LinusNi really like the root menu
13:38:00JdGordonWhat icon should we use for the root menu?
13:38:37JdGordonim tihnking"> col 1 row 2 if we cant get the clef
13:41:17JdGordonpublic domain means i dont need to shoot him an email to ask right?
13:41:24 Join norbusan [0] (
13:41:26JdGordoneven tho I highly doubt he would min
13:41:39norbusanhelo /server
13:41:52norbusanupps, wrong window, sorry
13:42:42JdGordongrr... can someone past the DEBUGF() line in root_menu.c down the bottom please?
13:42:55 Part norbusan
13:43:08LinusNJdGordon: ???
13:43:29JdGordonI cant be bothered typin it all again... and i deleted it :'(
13:43:41JdGordon... but i can be bothered typing 3 long messages instead!
13:43:45*JdGordon is odd
13:44:17JdGordonit doesnt make sense to allow the user to start in the plugin browser does it?
13:44:46LinusNJdGordon: yes, on the sansa, because that's about everything you can do on it :-)
13:44:58JdGordonhaha ok, ill leave it
13:45:18SoapRockbox - now more Doom friendly!
13:45:18LinusNJdGordon: did you see my /msg?
13:45:28LinusNah, good
13:47:17JdGordonhmm... 252 is a very odd number to be returning! stupid setting screen
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13:48:15linuxstbI'm sure there are users who just use Rockbox for plugins...
13:48:28linuxstb(misguided fools...)
13:48:46JdGordonwell i do... rockbox sounds like a bag of shit... the plugins dont have sound, so i dont have to put up with that :)
13:49:24*petur waits for JdGordon to rewrite the playback engine
13:49:52JdGordonim almost done.. just 15 more macros to finish
13:50:11JdGordonPLAY_THE_DAMN_MUSIC(a,b,c,g,h,...) has a bug
13:50:42Mikachuthe australian alphabet seems to be missing some letters
13:52:10JdGordonit makes sense that -1 becomes 255 if somewhere it was being converted from int then to char then back to int doesnt it?
13:52:13B4gderMikachu: its hard to read when your upsidedown!
13:52:22peturmust be his wireless keyboard
13:53:04JdGordoni got rid of that one... its downstairs connected to the htpc now
13:53:21Mikachuumop ep!sdn
13:53:43scorcheJdGordon: coome up with a new excuse yet?
13:53:59*B4gder giggles and stands on his head
13:54:02JdGordonfor bad typing? naa... i havnt been that bad
13:54:14beckJdGordon: no, IMO it should stay -1. Check the signedness of the char (should be explicitly declared as signed)
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13:54:40JdGordonbeck: im not doing it perposly.. i tinhk thats where my bug is tho
13:54:40linuxstbJdGordon: Maybe you've fixed them, but I found two root menu bugs: 1) if you select "Resume Playback", then press MENU, the "Files" entry is highlighted in the root menu, but I think "Now Playing" should be.
13:54:46 Join barrywardell [0] (
13:55:09 Quit Brunellus_ (Client Quit)
13:55:09linuxstb2) If you leave the file browser from a subdirectory with MENU, then go back into the file browser, then LEFT now longer exits - you need to use MENU to exit.
13:55:21JdGordonit highlights bookmarks here.. yeah thats a bug
13:55:31linuxstbI don't have bookmarks enabled...
13:56:17JdGordonand the tree bug.. umm... im not exactly sure why thats happeninnig
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13:57:58SirFunkhey, does rockbox support recording on an iriver ihp120?
13:58:15LinusNSirFunk: yes
13:58:25SirFunkreally? hmm
13:58:39SirFunklast time i checked out rockbox it didn't seem very finished, but it's looking pretty darn good now
13:58:42SirFunki may just try it out
13:58:58LinusNSirFunk: do so, and don't forget to read the manual
13:59:04B4gderrockbox is never finished
13:59:38JdGordon(23:59:15) arran4: RTFM!? NEVER! (I rarely do it anyway.) <- :'(
13:59:42SirFunkB4gder: right, but i mean last time i looked ( a long time ago ) it didn't support a LOT of stuff on the h120
13:59:50*petur wonders when jhMikeS will commit his latest recording patch
13:59:53LinusNJdGordon: lol
14:00:11JdGordonthats from a uber-linux guy
14:00:11B4gderSirFunk: rockbox supports almost everything the stock h120 firmware does
14:00:17B4gderand even runs longer
14:00:21SirFunkruns longer?
14:00:29LinusNbatter battery life
14:00:30JdGordonyeah, its more fit :p
14:00:35SirFunkoh cool
14:00:48LinusNpetur: almost, as in no WMA
14:01:06peturgo wash your mouth
14:01:15B4gderbut then of course Rockbox does a whole lot more than the OF does
14:01:18*LinusN stands in the corner
14:01:38LinusNfor example, it crashes more often :-P
14:01:38SirFunkB4gder: what other cool things does rockbox do?
14:02:04LinusNSirFunk: has all that info
14:02:05scorchespeaking of battery life, anyone familiar with the x5's?
14:02:16SirFunkLinusN: thanks
14:02:20LinusNscorche: should be pretty good
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14:02:41scorchewhat exactly does "pretty good" mean?
14:02:47scorchesurpassed the OF yet?
14:02:56SirFunkooooo gapless
14:02:56scorche2/3rds ish of OF?
14:03:35peturSirFunk: on-the-fly levels change & monitoring, cliplight, gapless recording, multiple rec formats, ...
14:04:20SirFunkell damn i need to try this out
14:05:10petur has a nice faq about recording with irivers
14:05:48 Quit My_Sic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:07:04linuxstbpetur: Do people generally use Rockbox or the iriver firmware on the h1x0?
14:07:05SoapIs there a proper name for that connector next to the headphone jack on the 3/4G ipods?
14:07:19amiconnscorche: No exact measurements yet, but it seems rockbox gets better battery life than of on all coldfire targets
14:07:43 Quit Mouser_X (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:07:45JdGordonI'm stumped... somehow -1 is becoming 255.. but it is passing through 2 functions both returning int.. so i cant see why its getting changed?
14:08:01peturlinuxstb: rockbox comes highly recommended there
14:08:50SirFunkh340's go cheap on ebay now
14:09:04SirFunkjeezus, i paid almost $400 for my H120, the H340's are like $180 on ebay
14:09:10beckJdGordon: computing with an unsigned int?
14:09:13SirFunki guess that has 2 days left
14:09:14SirFunkbut still
14:09:34Soap2 days left = not anywhere close to closing price.
14:09:40SirFunkyeah i knwo :-P
14:09:54JdGordonbloody helll... main_menu.h still had the func as a bool
14:09:57*scorche would rather know for sure about the battery...
14:10:28scorcheSoap: i think they call it the "remote connector"
14:10:45SoapThank you scorche
14:11:05Soapat the worst I have a term to google now to verify.
14:11:11*linuxstb concurs with scorche
14:11:54barrywardellJdGordon: I still have my bug on the H10 sim with your RC. Try playing a file. Then going to the root menu and selecting Files
14:12:04barrywardellIt briefly shows the file browser then show the wps
14:12:33barrywardelli don't have my actual h10 with me to test it on
14:12:59JdGordonhmm.. ok yeah, thats happening in the sim, so its a bug!
14:13:02linuxstbThat happens for me on my ipod color.
14:13:14JdGordonprobably needs a action_signal... call
14:13:14linuxstbExactly as barrywardell described.
14:13:42LinusNJdGordon: the stopped_hold_cancel logic seems to be flawed
14:14:05JdGordonold patch...
14:14:14 Quit himitsu (Read error: 111 (Connection refused))
14:14:15JdGordonthats fixed
14:14:35LinusNok, i'm looking forward to the next patch
14:14:46JdGordonrefresh the link
14:14:51JdGordonif you still have it">
14:15:19linuxstbI'm not sure if it still applies to SVN, but does anyone have a better idea for implementing a default theme than this patch?
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14:17:23LinusNlinuxstb: not really
14:17:35LinusNlooks ok to me
14:17:59LinusNbut i think rockboxed should be the default
14:17:59linuxstbThe downside of my patch is having to hard-code the settings in the theme .cfg file... But I think that's better than the complication of loading an external .cfg file.
14:18:08LinusNi agree
14:18:32linuxstbYes, I wrote that patch before rockboxed was committed.
14:18:50LinusNbut doesn't the theme include a background color as well
14:18:51linuxstbAlthough I find the Rockboxed Orange a bit shocking, and the WPS itself far too simple.
14:19:12linuxstbYes, they do now...
14:19:35linuxstbIt seems we need more colours defined in Rockbox though - not just a global fg/bg.
14:19:43JdGordonlinuxstb: latest version fixes that resume bug
14:19:43LinusNwell, we should work a little more on the rockboxed theme then
14:19:57LinusNlinuxstb: i agree about the colors
14:20:06Mikachua color tag in the wps maybe?
14:20:13linuxstbLinusN: Yes, I'm not saying we shouldn't make Rockboxed the default, just that it still needs some tweaking.
14:20:26LinusNi agree
14:20:35preglowany screenies of rockboxed anywhere?
14:20:41LinusNpreglow: in the forums
14:20:45*preglow goes there
14:21:28preglowi wish people would just forget about the "rockbox colors"
14:21:37LinusNpreglow: hehe
14:21:48preglowthey're not very nice choice for everything
14:22:15preglowwps wasn't very nice either, no
14:22:45linuxstbBut there's one thing you can say about the Rockboxed Orange - people know that they are in Rockbox...
14:22:54LinusNno doubt
14:25:04LinusNi think some of the Rockboxed icons are a bit "spaced out", but i like it in general
14:26:28JdGordonlinuxstb: the only known bug left is the wrong option being highlithed after leaving the wps....
14:26:55JdGordonah.. nuts..
14:27:34JdGordonthe reason is because there are actually 2 wps items, but one is always hidden... and because when you enter it sometimes swaps the hidden one you get the bug
14:27:50 Quit GodEater_ ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
14:28:07JdGordongo into the now playing item and it will work fine
14:28:54beckJdGordon: which are they? "Resume playback" and "goto wps"?
14:29:10 Join Arathis [0] (
14:30:20JdGordonreesume playback and now playong
14:31:33beckJdGordon: yes, by "goto wps" I meant "Now playing". Is the code for handling them substantially different?
14:31:51JdGordonnot at all
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14:32:01JdGordonnot the menu code anyway
14:32:07JdGordonthey both call the same function
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14:33:57smallideaH140: is there any chance that a long or short press (whichever suits) on Record button would take on into the active playlist ?
14:34:47JdGordonlinuxstb: imo its not a major bug, and the hack needed isnt worth the effort
14:35:09 Join Arathis_ [0] (
14:35:14JdGordonwith that said... my web space has RC3 ready to go
14:35:34markunJdGordon: and there is no nice way to change the title of a menu item?
14:35:55 Part smallidea
14:36:07JdGordonmarkun: only in the lang files
14:36:12JdGordonwhy which dont you like?
14:36:47LinusNJdGordon: he means reusing the same menu item with different lang id's, instead of hiding entries
14:37:10JdGordonnot really
14:37:23JdGordonthe added code for this 1 case isnt worth it imo
14:37:51 Join himitsu [0] (n=himitsu@
14:37:52JdGordonthat code is in the menu handling, not the root menu code
14:38:28JdGordonIt does show a possible flaw with the dynamic menu stuff.. so ill put a note in the code where it needs fixing
14:38:33LinusNone solution would be to make the menu dynamic
14:39:02JdGordonthats what its using
14:39:13LinusNit is?
14:39:24JdGordonim saving the wrong position data in the menu stuff.. i need to change that
14:40:02LinusNsure looks static to me
14:40:06JdGordonits only 12.40am... good a time as any to hack up the code
14:40:13JdGordonnope.... dynamic
14:40:37JdGordonitem_callback() in root_menu.c handles the hiding items trickery
14:40:48LinusNthat's what i mean
14:40:53JdGordonthe only dynamic items are wps and bookmarks which is why it looks static
14:41:06LinusNyou are using a static menu instead of creating one dynamically
14:42:14JdGordonoh... I see... no, this is how you create "dynamic" menus with the new code
14:42:24JdGordonyou put every item in and hide the ones you dont want shown
14:42:49JdGordonthey are scanned before the menu enters, hidden ones are never seen by the rest of the code
14:46:05beckJdGordon: why do you need two items then? Couldn't the item's title be changed? Instead of having two items?
14:46:34markunbeck: hey, that's a good suggestion! ;)
14:46:47JdGordonnot possible without hacking more than I want to
14:47:12beckJdGordon: are entry titles that static?
14:47:15*JdGordon got it working :)
14:47:22markunJdGordon: then don't do it. I thought the title would just be a pointer to the title.
14:47:31JdGordonbeck: no, but the code to get the title is burried deep inside gui code
14:48:07markununder multiple layers of scarry macros :)
14:48:13beckJdGordon: ok, then commit it so that we can test it. And then it can be fine tuned.
14:48:24GodEater_scarry or scarey ? :)
14:48:26JdGordonno, just introduced a bug i tihnk
14:48:42markunGodEater_: I don't know :)
14:48:48 Quit Arathis (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:48:55markunmy spelling sucks even in my mother language
14:49:28GodEater_perhaps you mean both :) They leave you mentally scarred after scaring the wits out of you
14:51:06 Join norbusan [0] (
14:51:30GodEater_I notice toffe posted more info on the GigabeatInfo page about the stupidly inconsistent hard drives in the F10 and F20 models
14:51:45JdGordonfixed and fixed :)
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14:54:48JdGordonLinusN: linuxstb: commit?
14:55:01LinusNJdGordon: the latest patch has odd paths
14:55:21LinusN../apps/screens.c etc
14:55:23JdGordontry now
14:55:37JdGordoni was in the build dir when i did it.. forgot about it
14:55:53 Nick Arathis_ is now known as Arathis (
14:58:16ArathisIs there any reason why highscore and savegame files of the plugins/games don't have same extensions?
14:58:51ArathisThere are *.high, *.hs, *.save
14:58:58LinusNon a different matter, the lack of progress info when initializing the database is somewhat of a nuisance
14:59:03ArathisAnd even more, didn't try every plugin
14:59:27*JdGordon just got I04:IllInstr :'(
14:59:59JdGordondont press menu in the root menu..
14:59:59GodEater_LinusN: what's wrong with looking at the database info stuff in the debug menu ?
15:00:01JdGordonstupid bug
15:00:03LinusNArathis: the reason is probably just lack of coordination
15:00:21LinusNGodEater: the debug info is for developers only
15:00:46ArathisFor backing these files up with a script or something it's quite disturbing
15:00:46LinusNa simple user is left in the dark and doesn't know when it is done
15:00:50markunLinusN: perhaps the Database entry in the menu could show a status screen when it's not build or building.
15:01:03markunin the root menu
15:01:04LinusNmarkun: something like that
15:01:23SirFunkrockbox is nice
15:01:24LinusNyou just select "Initialize database" and nothing seems to happen
15:01:35markunSirFunk: it sure is :)
15:01:39SirFunki want a new player .. i want a h3xx i lent my H120 to a friend to record and he cracked my freakign screen :(
15:01:40markunSirFunk: which player do you have?
15:02:12*markun wispers Gigabeat F40 into SirFunk's ear
15:02:26markunah, but it has no recording..
15:02:31SirFunkyeah i need recording
15:02:35SirFunkooooo rockbox can record to wavpack
15:02:39SirFunkhow freaking sweet is that!
15:02:57LinusNpretty sweet, i'd say :-)
15:03:22markunSirFunk: we have some plans to make a custom dock with recording support, but you'd need a external ADC because the recording will be digital.
15:03:28JdGordonbug zapped.... im once again happy with it :p
15:03:33JdGordon5th time tonight :'(
15:04:09*markun has been listening to SPC files all day
15:05:10SirFunkoh wow
15:05:14SirFunkgames are cool!
15:05:32SirFunkI wish there was a smaller player that supported rockbox had a color screen and recording
15:05:55SirFunknanos record?
15:06:09JdGordoni tihnk so..
15:06:18JdGordonwith an external mic
15:06:33SirFunknot *any* mic though right? you need an ipod mic?
15:06:37GodEater_won't have the battery life of the H120 though
15:06:39 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
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15:09:07blindI'm trying to edit a theme that was made for the 5G iPod to fit the color iPod and the only thing I can't figure out.. is how do I move the text up? There's no positioning on it in the wps file.
15:09:12*LinusN compiles again...
15:09:44BigBambiblind, it is done by line positioning, i.e. to move it up delete a previous line
15:09:59BigBambior use a smaller font
15:10:02blindit's that simple?
15:10:04LinusNJdGordon: yes, you said you fixed a bug, so i downloaded the patch again
15:10:06BigBambiyep :)
15:10:18blindoh jeez. thanks BigBambi
15:10:26dewdude__SirFunk, theoritically, any mic will work. you just have to interface it with the line-in jacks on the dock plug, and that would require some sort of mic pre-amp
15:10:43BigBambinp :)
15:10:58JdGordonLinusN: i didnt repatch it tho... just dont press menu in the root menu
15:11:25LinusNi'd rather have an updated patch
15:11:42JdGordonho hum.... we arnt commiting tonight.. database has a bug
15:11:45SirFunkdewdude__: ehh, i'd rather have something built in
15:12:03JdGordonLinusN: ok, done
15:12:04dewdude__SirFunk, you don't get it, there's NOTHING built in.
15:12:12dewdude__there's no mic or any kind of mic preamp
15:12:26dewdude__you'd rather have something, yes, but, you won't find it
15:12:34blindWell, that also makes it harder that you can't position the text, you have to make the background AROUND the text pretty much.
15:12:41SirFunkwell, then i'll stick to iriver H series players :-P
15:12:53dewdude__ther is one company that makes a small device that has mics and a built in amp
15:13:06dewdude__it's smaller than what i can engineer at least
15:13:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:13:10JdGordondoes anyone know if database uses a similar "file tree" to the rest? /artists/ ?
15:13:18JdGordonSlasheri: ping?
15:13:28 Quit Brunellus ("Ex-Chat")
15:13:33LinusNJdGordon: huh?
15:13:39BigBambiblind, yes unfortunately that is true (until viewports)
15:14:08JdGordonleft/off exits straight to the root from db because I'm checking the currdir against "/" which isnt working for db
15:14:09blindhowever, I think that DockPod Aqua theme is just too sexy to pass up.
15:14:41dewdude__i never saw the appeal of a full-blown WPS theme with bmp screens
15:14:52dewdude__seems like it'd eat up precious resources
15:15:18LinusNdewdude__: the appeal is purely visual
15:16:04LinusNand on the other platforms (e.g iriver, x5), the performance loss is very small
15:16:19*dewdude__ shrugs
15:16:24dewdude__i like my plain text
15:16:25BigBambiI'd quite like a sexy WPS, but my H140 isn't up to it. However, most of the time it is in my pocket, so I don't really care.
15:17:01blindAye, but I wanna show this off :P
15:17:42JdGordonand its fixed... surely this is the last bug? :'(
15:17:59Mikachunot if it's anything like your other code :)
15:18:05LinusNJdGordon: could you update the patch?
15:18:07JdGordongee thanks :p
15:18:54*LinusN starts compiling again...
15:20:38JdGordonthink of the practice gcc is getting :)
15:20:42Nico_Plooks like cuesheet is ready to get committed :)
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15:20:54JdGordonill do it in the morning for you
15:21:08markunNico_P: do you have a patch for me to look at?
15:21:15Nico_PJdGordon: if that was for me, don't worry, i have commit access
15:21:34Nico_Pmarkun: sure
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15:24:01JdGordonnope... damn database...
15:24:29ArathisIs .rockbox/config.cfg the config used when booting rockbox?
15:24:36LinusNJdGordon: are you struggling with the left-to-root hack?
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15:24:48JdGordonLinusN: yeah, database wont play nice
15:25:05JdGordonit alwyas goes to root.. no matter what subdir you are in
15:25:32JdGordonno.. sorry.. wrong bug
15:25:41JdGordonbut thats the problem anyway
15:26:34JdGordonusb is broken on my h300 somewhere... it locks up in a black screen even after i dc?
15:26:35Nico_Pmarkun: any comments before i commit ?
15:26:42*JdGordon doesnt think this is related to this patch
15:26:53amiconnMikachu: I tried your gcc -pipe idea
15:26:55markunNico_P: ah, I didn't see the dcc :)
15:27:01amiconnUnfortunately build time doesn't change :(
15:27:50Mikachuah, too bad
15:28:10GodEater_Mikachu: Gentoo user ?
15:28:11markunNico_P: I think we should have a unicode version of skip whitespace
15:28:34markunand don't think it should be in cuesheet.c
15:28:48MikachuGodEater_: because i know how to use gcc?
15:28:52ArathisCan someone please answer my tiny question above? :(
15:29:02MikachuArathis: yes, and yes
15:29:09GodEater_hehe - no, it's just that -pipe is in their default recommended CFLAGS ;)
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15:29:14ArathisMikachu: Thanks :)
15:29:25MikachuGodEater_: for good reasons
15:29:32Nico_Pmarkun: where should it be ? maybe i can let you make that change because i'm not familiar with unicode at all
15:30:22JdGordonmisc.c probably
15:30:22markunNico_P: it can be moved later maybe. I don't have time to work on one now.
15:30:26ArathisNow I can let my little script set my backuped config as default, yeay :D
15:30:48Nico_Pi'll commit then :)
15:31:21markunNico_P: maybe other people want to take a look
15:31:46 Quit Jarret ("This computer has gone to sleep")
15:32:07markunJdGordon, LinusN, linuxstb and amiconn for example?
15:32:13LinusNJdGordon: i just tried your patch on the x5, and pressing Play in the root menu sent me to the browser (nothing to resume)
15:33:44JdGordonodd... it keeps me in the root
15:34:10LinusNit works like that when selecting the menu item
15:34:18LinusNbut not when you press Play to resume
15:34:50JdGordonworking fine in the sim :(
15:35:22JdGordonand on my h300
15:36:03JdGordonbloody not allowing exit at the root bug is back :'(
15:36:51peturseems to behave like a real RC
15:37:00amiconnMikachu: It seems to do something on linux though
15:37:39JdGordonamiconn: i tried it on linux, gave 4sec slowdown
15:37:51JdGordonwith ccache disabled
15:37:52amiconnI got 8 sec speedup
15:38:46JdGordoni disabled it to get a more accurate comparisson
15:39:26LinusNJdGordon: now i see what the problem is - Play is mapped to select
15:39:42SirFunkanyone have a favorite theme for a ihp-1x0?
15:39:58JdGordonlinuxstb: on which?
15:40:33JdGordonah yes... the only keymap i changed was the irivers...
15:40:45JdGordonyou need to add the ACTION_MENU_WPS action
15:40:50markunNico_P: well, no reactions :)
15:40:59Nico_Pit's committed :)
15:41:15*JdGordon waits for the inevitable oops commit :)
15:41:51 Quit himitsu (Remote closed the connection)
15:41:52*petur waits for the 'grrr last commit added xxx bytes'
15:41:53Nico_PJdGordon: i hope it won't be needed
15:42:32ArathisIs the config used when resetting current config written into a file or code?
15:42:36 Quit GodEater_ ("CGI:IRC")
15:42:38Nico_Pwow JdGordon, super fast FS entrey closing :)
15:42:49JdGordonhehe yeah
15:43:03*JdGordon likes closing tasks
15:43:13*Nico_P too
15:43:33Soul-SlayerHow hard would it be to implement an ID3 tag editor? I know there are patches people made like 7 months ago, but they are obviously very outdated now.
15:43:47Nico_PI look forward to the day when i'll be able to close the album art patch entry
15:43:58JdGordonstart work on MoB then :D
15:44:00Soul-SlayerWhat prevents you ^^?
15:44:03perldiverJdGordon again, love the menu icons but there's a mild confusion with hollow dot, dot and plus ones
15:44:12Nico_PSoul-Slayer: metadata on buffer
15:44:14SirFunkis there any way to get he record button to go to record mode on an ihp-1x0?
15:44:17JdGordonwhats the conusion?
15:44:34markunNico_P: I see some more places where the whitespace skipper could be used: read_tag in apps/tagcache.c and I think rm_whitespaces in apps/filetypes.c does something similar
15:44:35JdGordonperldiver: you gotta thank midkay for the icons.. i just did the code.. he drew them
15:44:43perldivercould you explain your vision on that?
15:45:08*Arathis seems to have bad timing for asking questions... ^^
15:45:10perldiverplus has the submenu but so does the dot?
15:45:11JdGordonperldiver: empty circcles are settings.. + is a submenu and dot is a function call
15:45:16Nico_Pmarkun: is there some sort of "general purpose functions" file ?
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15:45:33JdGordonperldiver: not every one.. just the ones which i havnt converted yet
15:45:40perldiverJdGordon ok good
15:45:40JdGordonNico_P: misc.c
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15:45:58JdGordonArathis: hardcoded
15:46:16ArathisJdGordon: thanks
15:46:19Nico_Pthere are other functions i use that could go here, like get file extension or strip file extension
15:46:54peturSirFunk: see patch 5555 in the tracker
15:47:15markunNico_P: also, your function could use the inline function isspace from firmware/common/sscanf.c
15:47:16perldiverSoul-Slayer id3 tag editor would rock
15:47:28 Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:47:28JdGordonArathis: depends what your trying to do.. fixed.cfg might help you
15:47:33perldiverand yes, the old patches dont work anymore
15:47:34markun(which we then could fix to support other UTF-8 whitespaces)
15:47:36Nico_Pmarkun: actually this one's not mine, it's JdGordon's
15:47:42Soul-SlayerIt would, and 'technically' it's there, just needs syncing to the latest SVN
15:47:49peturSirFunk: that patch is included in the REP (see forums -> recording
15:47:57JdGordonNico_P: which is mine?
15:48:05markunNico_P: the cuesheet patch?
15:48:20perldiverSoul-Slayer do you mean the one that support id1?
15:48:22Soul-SlayerWhich has to be a lot of work judging by it's age
15:48:38Soul-SlayerThere is one created that supports both V1 and V2, I'll find the FS
15:48:57perldiveroh yes, thats very old one
15:49:00Soul-SlayerIt is
15:49:11ArathisJdGordon: I want to set my config as default after isntalling new rockbox. I'll use config.cfg for that. The question you answered was just for interest
15:49:36Soul-SlayerOnly 4 years old :P.
15:50:06JdGordonNico_P: you better run... amiconn is going to kill you :D
15:50:14Nico_PJdGordon: indeed
15:50:34Nico_Phe's going to hate me... breaking another target on my first commit
15:50:48JdGordonactually.. you didnt really.. just you made it go red
15:50:58BigBambiSirFunk: I use iAmp, but you will have to edit it cos it is slightly broken in SVN
15:51:14Nico_PJdGordon: what do you mean ? isn't that breaking it ?
15:51:19BigBambithe volume readout %pv needs two spaces deleting from in front of it
15:51:26BigBambiotherwise it sits under an icon
15:51:31JdGordonNico_P: no, it was over already, but the error isnt recognised by the scripp
15:51:44JdGordonbut now gcc is failing so it is
15:52:16JdGordon3k added on....
15:54:04Nico_PJdGordon: but no oops commit :)
15:54:31JdGordonhehe no
15:55:02Nico_Pbtw, what are these warnings on synth.c that keep changing places ?
15:55:19JdGordon64bit warnings
15:55:23JdGordondw about them
16:00:26 Join n1s [0] (
16:02:03amiconnJdGordon: They're *not* 64 bit warnings
16:02:24JdGordon64 bit host warnings..
16:02:26*JdGordon is tired
16:02:46amiconnThey're caused by a bad snapshot version of gcc 4.1.2, nothing to do with 64 bit
16:02:55JdGordonoh? ok then
16:05:34*amiconn sighs
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16:06:04*amiconn gets the impression that he isn't wanted anymore in the rockbox project
16:06:05*JdGordon blames amiconn's sigh on it being 2am
16:06:15JdGordonhaha that too
16:06:38beckJdGordon: go sleep a little. You're not a robot after all!
16:06:41LinusNamiconn: hahahaha
16:07:05JdGordonnight folks
16:07:09LinusNsleep tight
16:07:10 Quit JdGordon ("Leaving.")
16:07:10amiconnI should probably install a mid-2006 build on my recorder and Ondio FM, sell the rest and stop developing
16:07:43beckamiconn: what makes you think like that?
16:07:50n1sbroken ondio rombox?
16:08:08amiconnA lot of things...
16:08:24LinusNbeck, n1s: my guess is the "amiconn will kill you" comments recently
16:08:41n1sLinusN: !
16:08:49n1swho said that?
16:09:03markunamiconn: please don't leave.
16:09:09 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
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16:09:23beckLinusN: I'd be proud of such reputation. Seriously. Very high quality level.
16:09:38*petur waits for the 'grrr last commit added xxx bytes' <−−-
16:10:05Mikachui think it's good that someone tries to keep bloat in check
16:10:31LinusNme too
16:10:38markunamiconn: I think that your "do we actually need that" questions are very useful for example
16:11:07amiconnThey don't seem to help. Also, I don't see any size optimisation happening
16:11:08*scorche fourths
16:11:27markunamiconn: they have helped me, although I can't give you a good example right now
16:11:34 Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear)
16:11:59preglowso, how is inexact seeking handled in this cue file support?
16:12:06 Join rotator [0] (n=e@rockbox/developer/rotator)
16:12:10Nico_Pamiconn: maybe i can make it up to you with a wps tokenizer ?
16:12:36Nico_Ppreglow: it's not, i just used the regular seeking
16:13:15preglowbeh, then mp3+cue will be annoying
16:13:31LinusNamiconn: don't take the "amiconn will be angry" comments seriously
16:13:37markunpreglow: are we very far off sometimes?
16:13:39Nico_Ppreglow: actually no, it works quite well... i've even only tested on that
16:13:39LearJust saw the cuesheet stuff... Should cuesheet_init really allocate 198 cuesheet structs? Or am I missing something? :)
16:13:52preglowNico_P: i'll give it a spin afterwards and comment
16:14:38Nico_PLear: no it allocates 198 cuesheet track structs... not the same thing ;)
16:15:09LearYep, thought so...
16:15:20preglowamiconn: did you have a look at the huffman patch to see what breaks 64 bit? i can't see anything obvious right now
16:15:25Learstruct cuesheet contains 99 track structs...
16:15:42*Mikachu has never seen an audio cd with 99 tracks
16:15:49*scorche has
16:15:54*markun too
16:16:02*Soul-Slayer and me
16:16:05preglowthey do exist
16:16:11*Mikachu shuts up
16:16:17 Quit beck ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
16:16:24Soul-SlayerAnnoying but true :p
16:16:35markunMikachu: but it contained mostly empty tracks and the 99th was a 'hidden track'
16:16:52scorchesometimes artists will make track 18 (or some random number) to track 98 3 seconds long...and what markun said
16:17:00Mikachusurely you would strip those when making a cue file
16:17:09Soul-SlayerOnly if you were sensible
16:17:14Nico_PLear: thanks a lot for noticing that
16:17:18*Nico_P is very ashamed
16:17:25*n1s has seen one with ~80 tracks of recorded birdsong :-)
16:18:05B4gderthere are "sound effect" CDs with loooooads of very short sound effects
16:18:24Mikachudoes redbook allow >99 tracks?
16:18:35n1sno (?)
16:20:15Mikachu( )
16:24:04preglowso, how much does cuesheet support add? :>
16:24:33 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
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16:24:45Nico_Ppreglow: 3k according to JdGordon
16:25:14 Join pondlife [0] (
16:25:42preglowouch indeed
16:25:42Mikachuit would be nice if the build table listed size somewhere
16:25:48preglowMikachu: very good idea
16:25:48Mikachuor if there was a size table
16:25:48LinusNso maybe we should disable cuesheet support on the archos
16:26:01preglowperhaps a stats link or something
16:26:09pregloweverything can't fit in the table itself
16:26:14Nico_Pcould it have something to do with the problem my last commit just solved ?
16:26:31LinusNno, we're talking about binary size
16:26:35 Quit printfXh4 (No route to host)
16:26:39Nico_Pthat's what i thought
16:27:01preglowwell, i think we're going to need to disable stuff on archos targets some day anyway
16:27:06LinusNbut a binary size status page is a nice idea
16:27:10preglowfact of the day: they're old
16:27:16preglowalso limited
16:27:19LinusNpreglow: yes we will, eventually
16:27:52preglowpity, though, cuesheet support would work nicely also on archos
16:27:53markunare there some features inluded now which don't make sense for the archos units?
16:28:05Nico_Pso i just leave it as it is for now and we'll have a big commit to disable features that are unwanted on archos targets ?
16:28:06preglowapart from the fact that mp3 isn't the best format to use with cue
16:28:12LinusNwell, not really
16:28:55markunpreglow: but if amiconn manages to make the MAS decode flac..
16:28:58LinusNthere are few features that don't apply to the archos targets
16:29:53 Join Febs [0] (
16:29:55markunIs there an easy way to see which parts of the code take up the most space?
16:30:02LinusNthe map file
16:30:02markunthe .map files?
16:30:05markunaha :)
16:30:18Mikachuls -l *.o?
16:30:30LinusNthe bookmarking code is an example of some code that could be quite smaller and simpler
16:30:37preglowmarkun: now THAT would be a disaster that will really skyrocket the archos binary sizes :P
16:31:06Mikachuwould it be impractical to have part of rockbox in flash and part in ram?
16:31:12markunpreglow: because it will add all the SWCODEC code?
16:31:18preglowMikachu: yes, also why?
16:31:38preglowmarkun: possibly
16:31:41markunpreglow: to save RAM?
16:31:52preglowright, for archoses only
16:32:04Mikachuyes, that is what i meant, sorry
16:32:08Mikachui also guessed the answer was yes
16:32:13preglowyou'd need to spread section directives around a bit
16:32:18preglowbut i wouldn't like that approach at all
16:32:34preglowtoo much of a hacj
16:32:36preglowhack too
16:34:49amiconnpreglow: In fact I don't see the point in using cue sheets at all. Why not just split the track with mp3directcut or equivalent?
16:35:04amiconnRockbox is gapless, so one wouldn't lose anything
16:35:46*n1s have actually never seen the point in those cuesheets for music, but they seem strangely popular...
16:35:53amiconnThe only thing where I ever came across cue sheets and even used them myself is ripping CDs for copying
16:35:56Nico_Pamiconn: live DJ mixes, mixed CDs
16:35:58n1sadd either there somewhere
16:36:01amiconn...but that's cue+wav, not cue+mp3
16:36:08preglowamiconn: for the same reason i want flac support instead of having to transcode all flac files to vorbis before i can listen to them on rockbox
16:36:19 Join Llorean [0] (
16:36:19Nico_Pand the goal is to add support for chapter info in some containers like MP4
16:36:22amiconnpreglow: That's a very different thing.
16:36:23preglowit's nice to be able to just copy stuff over and be able to play it
16:36:42preglowamiconn: i don't see how it is. it's still a question of being able to play the files you have or not being able to
16:37:01amiconnYou can play the mp3 without reading the cue sheet
16:37:18amiconnAnd cutting the file does neither change quality nor needed disk space
16:37:45LinusNamiconn: it's only a matter of convenience
16:37:45 Quit Criamos ("( :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: )")
16:38:08LloreanJust to pipe up on the issue of default icons: We should have two sets per target, one at the default font size, and one 'minimum' set at the smallest recognizable size, I think.
16:38:10LinusNlike supporting direcgtory playback instead of requiring the user to create a playlist
16:38:23LloreanOtherwise you set the 'default' font size as pretty much the minimum viewable with icons.
16:38:42preglowLinusN: yes, exactly
16:38:47amiconnLlorean: That's not true with loadable icons
16:39:39LinusNgtg, cu around
16:39:42Lloreanamiconn: Yes, but I was speaking on the issue of 'default' in the context of 'included'
16:39:47 Part LinusN
16:39:59 Join [toffe] [0] (n=[toffe]
16:40:19LloreanBut loadable icons would allow a lot more flexibility, yes.
16:40:48 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
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16:41:32markunLlorean: it would be nice if the icons could be included in a theme
16:42:07LloreanYes, I think so.
16:42:47 Quit himitsu ("Leaving")
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16:45:11 Part Winchester345
16:45:42preglowrockbox.ipod is nearing half a meg too
16:45:49*preglow kicks far calls
16:46:06amiconnFar calls and function sections
16:47:11Mikachunobody merged my static inline patch right?
16:47:53preglowi don't think i even saw it
16:48:14markunMikachu: what does it do?
16:48:14Mikachuit was quite some time ago, i highly doubt it still applies
16:48:25Mikachuit marks functions that are only called from one place as static inline
16:48:44Mikachuiirc it saved a couple of kBs
16:48:51preglowbecause of the inline or the static?
16:48:58Mikachuprobably the inline
16:49:14Mikachubut i think both are needed to not emit an out-of-line version?
16:49:33preglowa bit annoying that gcc didn't inline them anyway
16:49:47preglowbut then again, it probably won't do that unless it's called -O3
16:49:49Mikachuthere is a switch for inlining heuristically, but it wasn't very good at it
16:49:52amiconnA 'static' should make gcc inline the function automatically if it's only called once, but erm, gcc...
16:50:00preglowyes, gcc indeed
16:50:10preglowi've always had problems with gcc's inlining heuristics
16:50:12preglowdon't trust it
16:50:29preglowone time i even had it stop inlining std::vector's [] operator...
16:50:40preglowyielding the equivalent of one fucntion call for each array reference
16:53:46amiconnSpeaking about gcc and arm... we're compiling libmad with -O for ipod because that's faster than -O2. However, shouldn't this be true for all arm targets then?
16:53:54amiconnMaybe this will help tomal with the iFP?
16:54:14 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
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16:54:57amiconnpreglow: Did you see my comments regarding the broken libmad on 64 bit?
16:55:22Mikachubleh, forgot to revert spc patch before running svn up
16:56:00preglowamiconn: yes, and i wondered if you've got any clues on why it happens? i've had a quick look, but didn't see anything very suspicious
16:56:48preglowMikachu: me too...
16:57:38Mikachu 93 files changed, 1025 insertions(+), 346 deletions(-)
16:57:38amiconnpreglow: Check mad_bit_read()...
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16:57:50Mikachui should stop fiddling with everything
16:58:30amiconnIt uses an unsigned long * to access the data... and presumes that 'unsigned long' is 32 bit
16:58:33amiconnRather obvious...
16:58:40XavierGrdoes the cue addition support other formats as well? (like flac or wave)?
17:00:45preglowamiconn: eh, that didn't get introduced with that patch?
17:01:31 Part Llorean
17:02:03amiconnIt got introduced with the patch
17:02:32amiconnThat's why I couldn't find anything regarding 64 bit problems in libmad with googling
17:06:13 Quit Soul-Slayer (Remote closed the connection)
17:07:26preglowthat's not the huffman patch
17:07:38preglowi'm looking at the huffman patch
17:07:49amiconnI found the problem with gdb. I got all weird values for frame->header.layer etc
17:08:18amiconnIt is.
17:09:06preglowright, i'
17:09:13preglowright, i've been looking at the completely wrong patch
17:09:27Nico_PXavierGr: you should be able to use cuesheets with any audio format
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17:13:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:13:13 Quit B4gder ("Rockbox TCP exception #04123 - connection reset and user kicked out")
17:13:54linuxstb_Nico_P: Adding SID multi-track support via the cuesheet system could be a nice extension....
17:14:49Nico_Plinuxstb_: i don't know anything about SID... the one I want to do is MP4 chapter support :)
17:15:28Nico_Pbut i can't find any info on how the chapters are stored
17:15:47linuxstb_The SID codec already supports multitrack via some kind of seeking hack. So all of the code should be there.
17:15:58 Part mich` ("Leaving")
17:16:22Nico_Pi'll have a look
17:17:06ArathisIs it planned that with the new system the menu will be themeable as the WPS or at all?
17:18:19Mikachuah, adding -funit-at-a-time allows compiling settings_list.c with gcc 4.0.2 :)
17:19:54Mikachuheh, the gcc bug uses the term "abuse compound literals"
17:21:44Nico_Pwhere can i get SID files ?
17:22:40Nico_Phcs: thanks
17:24:02bonbonthejonquick question, what are these new cuesheets? what do they do?
17:25:38amiconnThey are an obscure and inflexible workaround for players not capable of gapless playback
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17:29:16 Quit bonbonthejon (Remote closed the connection)
17:29:16 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
17:30:13linuxstbThey do have some advantages in Rockbox - e.g. allowing you to rewind from the start of one track directly to the end of the previous.
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17:30:48Nico_Plinuxstb: do you have some SID files with subtracks you could send me ?
17:31:09linuxstbNo, sorry.
17:31:22hcsNico_P: there are some direct links to individual SIDs here:
17:31:40linuxstbI don't listen to SID. I only mentioned it because the current SID multi-track implementation is a hack, and the cuesheet support allows it to be done properly now.
17:31:44 Join pixelma [0] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
17:31:55markunamiconn: the 10GB gigabeat has a harddrive which looks identical to a 20GB one. Do you think it's possible to ignore the number of cylinders or something to access the other 10GB?
17:31:56 Join GodEater_ [0] (i=c2cbc95c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
17:32:07Nico_Plinuxstb: the thing is regular SID files don't seem to have a lenght
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17:32:37linuxstbNico_P: That could be troublesome then...
17:32:42Nico_Phcs: do they have subtracks ?
17:32:46directhex|workmarkun, is there any particular pattern to the behaviour of the gigabeat remote when the player hold switch is enabled? it all seems rather random to me
17:33:14markundirecthex|work: it's cause by the 'LCD power off' feature
17:33:22GodEater_directhex|work: my advice would be "don't use the remote to power on the gigabeat when you've got the hold switch turned on"
17:34:12amiconnmarkun: I doubt it
17:34:28markunGodEater_: I want to disable the LCD Power Off feature because it doesn't give us any runtime improvement
17:34:44directhex|workGodEater_, why would you advise that specifically? it's next/prev track that's behaving funny
17:34:51markundirecthex|work: for now you can go to the info->debug screen and disable it
17:34:54GodEater_because you it deletes your config
17:35:01markunbut after you reboot it will be gone
17:35:06*GodEater_ did that on the bus this morning
17:35:10markunGodEater_: that should also be changed
17:35:25directhex|workGodEater_, it deletes *your* config. i've been waving a patch to fix that about for days!
17:35:29markunto a more difficult button combination
17:35:33markundirecthex|work: :)
17:36:52GodEater_well I think I'm capable of remembering not to do it in future
17:36:56markundirecthex|work: Can you give me the link again?
17:37:00GodEater_once is enough
17:37:08markunGodEater_: better to fix than to avoid
17:37:12GodEater_anyway - I had my config backed up ;)
17:37:21 Join SirFunk [0] (
17:38:37GodEater_oh lord I'll be pleased to get home tonight. Been fighting with RoR to make it work with IIS/SQL Server all day. Just about managed it but it was a painful journey.
17:38:51pixelmawow that was fast - yesterday the same time the standard OndioFM still had rombox (or again) - now it is this far off that it already shows in the build table :(
17:39:03directhex|workmarkun, can't find it. i'll upload it somewhee less volatile than tonight
17:39:12markunok :)
17:39:25GodEater_like flyspray for example
17:39:38directhex|workflyspray didn't seem to want to give me an account
17:40:01GodEater_mean and nasty flyspray
17:40:17directhex|worki know :'(
17:41:39directhex|workmarkun, due to the recovery mode conflict on MENU, my feeling is POWER | A is the best combination
17:42:41GodEater_linuxstb: is it time for me to delete a chunk of stuff out of the "broken ipod" sticky now do you think ?
17:43:01markundirecthex|work: did you try if there is a conflict?
17:43:46directhex|workmarkun, with power? no conflict IIRC, but you might want to test it yourself to be sure
17:43:53markundirecthex|work: ah yes.. but we can also fix that in the bootloader
17:43:54linuxstbGodEater: I think so... Maybe worth mentioning the original firmware problem on 4g/minis there.
17:44:09markundirecthex|work: well, A | POWER is also fine
17:44:56markundirecthex|work: no, I was talking about the RESCUE mode, but I see there is a problem there
17:45:40directhex|workmarkun, if you time it just right (i.e. start holding menu after the rockbox loader splash appears) it's okay, but i don't think putting exact timings of button presses into the manual is ideal
17:46:09directhex|workmarkun, whereas "hold a and power until player finishes loading" is easy to document
17:46:34GodEater_where does the nice big hi-res rockbox logo tif live ?
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17:47:37rushfanDoes anyone know how status on the 80gb ipod is progresing?
17:47:55GodEater_rushfan: LinusN is still cursing the FAT code
17:47:57roolkumarkun: could I suggest to shutdown the gigabeat on a long A button press? The power key is much more ergonomic for the use as a 'shift' key (index instead of pinky finger)
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17:49:06directhex|workroolku, are you left handed? both buttons are under my palm
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17:49:35GodEater_linuxstb: thanks ;)
17:49:53roolkudirecthex|work: no, I hold the device with my left and operate the cross with my other hand
17:50:47markunGodEater_: you can now use the nice rockbox svg that pixelma made
17:51:02GodEater_markun: ou est ?
17:51:02roolkuthe h120 was ideal: thumb -> record and index/middle/ring for play/stop/mode respectably
17:51:28pixelmaGodEater: manual/frontpage/ or something
17:51:38markunroolku: Ah, I use my thumb for all the buttons :) Are you left handed?
17:52:02pixelmaGodEater: in the source I meant
17:53:14roolkumarkun: not really, I use my right for the 'important things' tm
17:53:14Nico_PLear: do you have any idea where i could look for documentation on MP4 chapters ?
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17:54:06GodEater_going to have to find the SVG - Gimp thinks the TIF is a pile of crap
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17:54:43roolkumarkun: I constantly turn off my gigabeat when editing text, which would be solved by a-button shutdown as well
17:54:43GodEater_sweet - got it in my most recent checkout :)
17:54:46markunroolku: we were thinking of makeing POWER the stop/cancel button
17:55:33markunbasically swap A and POWER except for power down
17:55:33roolkumarkan: also the A-button is really hard to press when the device is in the cradle
17:55:49roolkumarkun: I can jusy about reach it with my fingernail, so it is no good as shift key
17:56:36markunhm, why do you have to show up with this now :) I though we finally agreed on a button layout :)
17:56:37roolkumarkun: I would prefer A as stop and shutdown
17:56:57rushfanGodEater_: but dont the other ipods use FAT too?
17:57:15Learnico_p: Not really. Only suggestion I have is the developers section at
17:57:31LearDumping an m4b file might give a clue or two, but...
17:57:39Nico_PLear: i'm looking at it but i'm a bit lost
17:58:00directhex|worki don't think mp4 chapters are standard, are they? i know i've investigates them in the past, and it's always lead back to apple
17:58:17markunpixelma: perhaps I should rename rockboxlogo3 to rockboxlogo?
17:58:56markunI'll just do it :)
17:59:28pixelmaactually I don't remember where that number came from... no problem renaming it
17:59:54linuxstbNico_P: It's probably also worth searching - you sometimes find technical discussions of this sort. It wouldn't surprise me if there is more than one way to store chapters - Apple's way and everyone elses...
18:00:34GodEater_rushfan: yes, but it needs changing to support the 80GB, but not changing so much that it breaks all the other players rockbox supports. That's the tricky bit.
18:02:53Nico_Plinuxstb: i can't find anything on the hydrogenaudio wiki
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18:05:30LearHmm, seem to have delete the few m4b:s I had...
18:05:45Nico_Pyou want one ?
18:06:55LearJust found one, I think...
18:07:11Lear(On the net that is, so I don't know yet if it really is one.)
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18:07:42markunNico_P: is 8) useful?
18:08:58Nico_Pmarkun: thanks
18:09:32linuxstbNico_P: I was thinking of the forums more than their wiki.
18:09:40markunNico_P: also, this might be interesting:
18:10:00Nico_Pmarkun: yes, i just found this program
18:10:04markunbased on
18:10:07Nico_Pi'm looking at what it can do
18:10:52Nico_Pit would be nice to at least be able to extract chapter info from my M4B files to cuesheets
18:13:43pixelmaNico_P: you added quite an amount of bytes to the binary size... :/
18:14:14*markun blames JdGordon for everything ;)
18:14:22Nico_Ppixelma: apparently yes, i'm sorry
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18:14:53markunpixelma: what do you think about disabling some features on the archoses?
18:15:59pixelmaI don't think it's the right way - and as linuxstb (I believe) said you'll just get the problem to decide which one...
18:16:42markunpixelma: amiconn was talking about using an older build. Isn't that the same as using a newer build with some features disabled?
18:19:12linuxstbI'm quite confident about the future of rombox on the Archos devices - now that cuesheet support is in (which has been repeatedly requested by users since Rockbox began), I can't think of any other features applicable to the Archos devices which will go in the core.
18:19:27pixelmamaybe some people could help with the lang cleanup and JdGordon's menu rework (I don't mean the root menu atm) and see where it could get?
18:19:42linuxstbThe combination of bootbox, JdGordon's menu/settings reworking, and the lang cleanup will bring it back... (as pixelma just said)
18:20:04Nico_Pwould a cleanup of the WPS code help ? i'm working on a WPS tokenizer
18:20:46linuxstbIt could do. Although I think the primary purpose of that is to make the code cleaner and easier to maintain (and more efficient).
18:21:51pixelmaalso Slasheris commit yesterday added a lot - isn't there a way to make it so that it doesn't have such an impact on the target's code size?
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18:23:43linuxstbI agree that commit is a waste of code - i.e. extra code for nothing that helps the user. It just seems to help people writing external database generation utilities.
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18:24:47preglowwell, it could be nice if you want to move your database to another unit with a different endianness and the same content...
18:25:09markunpreglow: but rebuilding it doesn't take that long..
18:25:21markunwell, maybe it does, but it's only 1 time
18:25:21preglowi know, i'm trying to be somewhat sarcastic
18:25:26preglowi don't see the point of that commit at all
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18:25:48linuxstbAnd some Rockbox targets support different file formats to others...
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18:26:46JungZandvliet:p (Sorry if i typed twice:P Was saying that i needed to be regged or something ^^)
18:27:50markunlinuxstb: do you think metadata should have ifdefs for the supported codecs?
18:28:44linuxstbIt doesn't?
18:29:09preglowso, is there any other point to the db endianness commit than being able to move the database files around?
18:29:10markunI think only for hw and sw codecs
18:29:35markunpreglow: I think it's to create the db from a PC, but ask Slasheri
18:29:56preglowand why can't those programs just have a switch?
18:30:09preglowSlasheri: i'm asking you, then. read the lines above this :)
18:30:27linuxstbmarkun: I think hw/sw codec is good enough for now. But it may need to be more precise if/when PCM playback is added to hwcodec - it will at least handle wav/aiff.
18:30:40Learnico_p: the chap atom section in the QuickTime file format documentation seems to be what you want. Doesn't seem to include all the low-level stuff though...
18:31:01Nico_PLear: can you give me a link ?
18:31:27Nico_Pi've been reading some things and this seems to be complicated... there is the apple way and the other way
18:31:28LearMaybe... It's a file I've downloaded, so I'll need to look for it. Found it at at least.
18:32:01Learthis should be it, I think:
18:32:31Slasheripreglow: yes, i am planning to convert other endianess conversions in the fat driver etc. to use that new subsystem
18:32:53preglowSlasheri: what would be the point in that?
18:32:59roolkumarkun/preglow: advantage is that I can use the same database files on my h120 and my gigabeat without losing the runtime information
18:33:03Slasheriit just makes code clean and simple
18:33:08preglowright, runtime info
18:33:27Mikachuyou could just have the pc tool convert the database files
18:33:41Slasheriruntime data can be exported also
18:33:42preglowi'd rather go for that
18:33:43roolku(I haven't tried, but I like the idea)
18:33:52Soapruntime info could be maintained through a "transfer agent" PC side as well, could it not?
18:34:01roolkuyes, but it is a lot of hassle that i am currently not doing
18:34:03Slasheribut that code is needed anyway for the pctool
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18:34:14Slasheriso it's just a matter whether enable it for rockbox also
18:34:21neilthereildeilhey all
18:34:26neilthereildeildoes rockBox support video on the Photo iPod?
18:34:36Slasheriand i see no reason why not to enable it for players with lot of ram. archoses might be a different matter
18:34:59preglowjust seems rather pointless at first glance
18:34:59neilthereildeilit does?
18:35:21preglowa simple format flag in any tool would make all the code redundant
18:35:38Slasheripreglow: format flag?
18:35:53preglowSlasheri: to specify what endianness the db is
18:35:55Slasheripreglow: to use that native database tool on a pc, there is no other way to do it
18:36:16Slasheriyeah, that code enables the possibility to implement that kind of flag also
18:36:19LearBtw, there's a similar endian converter in metadata.c...
18:37:11neilthereildeilwait, so it DOES work?
18:37:27pixelmaSlasheri: I don't see the point to disable a feature just to make it fit on the Archos when the PCtool could handle it all (as some coders here say too)
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18:38:22Slasheripixelma: what do you mean with that? pctool can not handle it at all without that endian subsystem
18:38:24roolkupixelma: apart from using the same db files on different endianess targets (which for me personally would be the only benefit)
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18:38:50Slasheriit's just a matter whether enable that subsystem for targets build too
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18:39:42linuxstbneilthereildeil: That wiki page says exactly what works and what's not yet implemented.
18:40:38Slasheriand with the pctool i mean the experimental tools/database tools that uses the full tagcache engine from rockbox core
18:41:03linuxstbBTW, how should that be run? I tried it quickly the other day, and got a "database not initialised" error.
18:41:06Slasheriwith other tools (like the perl program), there is no that issue but those utilities are limited what they can do
18:41:38linuxstbI changed the path in tools/database.c to point to where my ipod was mounted (/ipod) and ran it from the .rockbox folder on my ipod.
18:41:49Slasherilinuxstb: did it found the files?
18:42:00perldiverthanks for the cue sheet support commit, good one!
18:42:04linuxstbYes, it seemed to run through all the files OK.
18:42:17Slasheriit might not be very useable yet but should create a working database at least. Probably that was the endian issue then
18:42:36linuxstbI'm building on a little-endian PC for a little-endian target (ipod).
18:42:49pixelmasorry I don't understand the code - that's just how I understood the discussion here... and I wished. I can't believe that there shouldn't be another possibility
18:43:43Slasheripixelma: yeah, i see. it seems many people are not aware of that database tool
18:44:39Slasherilinuxstb: did you copy all .tcd files to .rockbox-directory?
18:44:52Slasherithose files are created in the directory the program is ran
18:44:59pixelmaSlasheri: sorry I don't understand what you are trying to tell me with that...
18:45:11linuxstbIt could be nice to put tools/database.c in its own subdirectory, and have the Makefile generate a .a lib that could be used in other applications.
18:45:26Slasherilinuxstb: true
18:45:31linuxstbSlasheri: Yes, I ran it from my ipod's .rockbox directory.
18:45:54Slasherihmm, interesting
18:45:56linuxstbMaybe Domonoky could be tempted to add it to rbutil...
18:47:09Slasheripixelma: i just meant that the native database tool is very different and shares the rockbox database engine. That engine can't be modified without affecting rockbox target builds as well
18:47:16linuxstbSlasheri: I just wanted to check I was running it the right way. I'll try it again later and let you know.
18:48:15Slasherilinuxstb: ok, please let me know if it works :) even if the created database is not usable, it should be recognized by rockbox
18:48:55linuxstbHave you tried it with your ipod?
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18:56:57Domonokyhm adding Database generation to rbUtil is a good idea :-)
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18:57:28Domonokybut, i should first implement Bootloader unistallation..
18:57:31madducksometimes i'll select a directory containing subdirs and choose "Insert" from the playlist menu, but nothing happens
18:57:39madduckat other times, it works.
18:57:48madduckit always seems to work if there are no subdirs, i think
18:57:52madduckand dynamic playlist also never fails.
18:57:55madduckwhat could be the problem?
18:57:59madduckthis is on the X5
19:02:26roolkumadduck: is your setting recurse subdirectories set to on?
19:04:26madducki think so, yes.
19:06:46Slasherilinuxstb: i have experimented it with different database file sets and it should work. However, the generated path names are probably unusable inside rockbox atm
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19:11:55GodEaterlinuxstb: I've updated the thread - would you mind checking for accuracy?
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19:14:37linuxstbSlasheri: Yes, I wondered about the pathnames...
19:15:50Slasherihmm, it seems there is very similar endianess converted in metadata.c also. A lot of unnecessary code could be removed by unifying that endianess conversion
19:17:16Nico_PLear: i've been able to get track times by using mp4trackdump on the text track of an M4B file
19:17:26Nico_Pcouldn't get the titles though
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19:20:37linuxstbGodEater: The 4g/mini OF issues seems consistent for everyone. It only applies to the new ipodpatcher and new bootloader. The old instructions at the bottom of the IpodPort wiki page (three links, one for win32, Mac OS X and Linux) still work.
19:21:01Slasherilinuxstb: i am going to remove the endianess converter from metadata.c
19:21:49roolkuNico_P: Is there a standard what char encoding cue files should be in? All my german ones are missing umlauts. Otherwise it works much better than expected. Finally I know what the individual sketches of my commedy shows are called. :)
19:22:20Nico_Proolku: i think cue files are supposed to be ASCII
19:22:40Nico_Proolku: didn't you expect it to work well ? :)
19:23:04roolkuNico_P: the seeking is quite accurate
19:23:17Nico_Pis the file CBR or VBR ?
19:23:45roolkuNico_P: I only seem to have CBR files with cue sheets
19:24:12perldiverNico_P thanks for commiting it!
19:24:37Nico_Pperldiver: i'm pleased you like it
19:24:51perldiverdoes it compile with the album art patch?
19:25:06perldiveri guess im just gonna try it now to find out
19:25:06Nico_Pperldiver: i haven't tested but probably
19:25:09linuxstbShouldn't Rockbox use the codepage setting for cuesheet text?
19:25:22perldiverNico_P but yes, i love it :)
19:25:26*linuxstb has no idea how codepages are implemented though...
19:27:09*Lear points to playlist.c for an example.
19:28:34roolkulinuxstb: I tend to agree
19:29:11LearTo be specific, the call to iso_decode.
19:29:13GodEaterlinuxstb: updated it again - see what you think now
19:30:27linuxstbGodEater: Looks good to me.
19:31:10roolkuperldiver: it conflicts with album art. I have synched it locally, however I also have a few more local changes so I'd rather not upload it. It is fairly trivial to sych though
19:33:44*roolku patently waits for codepage support rather than converting all his cuesheets to utf8 :)
19:34:29perldiverroolku just a matter of copying and pasting i presume?
19:36:52roolkuperldiver: adjusting albumart? yes, just paste the rejected bits in the right place
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19:37:21perldiverroolku any guidelines for the "right places" ?
19:38:01perldiveroh god, so many errors
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19:39:05perldiver2 pages from d3.c and id3.h
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19:58:23Nico_Pperldiver, roolku: i updated the album art patch
19:58:36perldiverlet's see
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20:08:00|Rincewind|does anybody here know if the onplay menu is going to be converted, too?
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20:08:35perldiverNico_P trying now
20:09:06perldiverso far so good
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20:10:42perldiverthanks for the quick update
20:10:50linuxstb|Rincewind|: Converted to what?
20:11:03|Rincewind|to the new menu system
20:11:47linuxstbI assume so - all menus should be afaiu.
20:13:56|Rincewind|the thing is, I want to extend my rec-button patch and I'm using code from onplay.c and if this gets converted, then I have to start again...
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20:22:13perldiverreset patch?
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20:25:10directhexhold switch settings reset is ++ungood
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20:36:10*amiconn learned about a useful *nix command today
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20:36:53Mikachuand what was that?
20:37:03amiconnAlso available on cygwin
20:37:03Mikachuah, yes
20:37:18Mikachumy shell automatically shows that output if the command used more than 20s cpu :)
20:37:50Mikachu(REPORTTIME=20 in zsh if anyone wonders)
20:37:53amiconnIt further backs my suspicion regarding cygwin slowness being due to the windows filesystem
20:38:03Mikachuit shows most time spent in system time?
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20:38:32amiconnNo, it shows most time spent "somewhere else", especially when the virus scanner is activated
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20:39:43Mikachuno wonder it's slow if you have a virus scanner...
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20:40:59Noah0504Hello, all.
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20:43:50Juice^is there an list of supported codecs for rockbox?
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20:44:40Juice^i found it :)
20:45:12amiconnSome numbers:
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20:51:25preglowSlasheri: did you check the size change from the last commit?
20:52:54Slasheripreglow: for iriver it freed over 100 bytes, not sure about ipod
20:53:34Slasheribut there is probably many similar convesions in code which could be simplified the same way
20:53:43preglowalmost certainly
20:55:37Juice^is there any updates going on for the main menu?
20:55:52linuxstbFS #6630
20:56:01Juice^a skinnable menu would be sweet
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20:56:55*Soap would rather skin a menu than skin his knee
20:57:25linuxstbHow would you skin it (the menu, not Soap's knee) ?
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20:58:54Juice^well... the menu would probably vary alot for the different players
20:59:57flamiI found the plugin recording in my ipod nano ... i guess it doesnt really work, am i right?
21:01:36Lloreanflami: It requires a line-in adapter.
21:02:39LloreanJuice^: I think he means, what aspects of the menu do you think should be changeable by themes?
21:03:05Soaplinuxstb: Turok is FoS is he not? Dual boot works on the 4G/mini assuming you use the old instructions, correct?
21:04:15LloreanSoap: True, the old instructions still work
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21:04:43Juice^Llorean: oh... well. like all of the menus should be skinnable with possibilites to add smaller icons, and maby an option to run the menu skinned or not. different backdrops for menus, and bigger images/icons for the menu, maby replace the text with icons
21:04:53SoapJust wanted to quadrouple (SP!) check before I slapped Turok.
21:05:26LloreanJuice^: You are aware you can have a different backdrop for the menu right?
21:05:46LloreanJuice^: So, as far as you're concerned, skinning menus is "different icons, and maybe an option to turn off the text so it's just icons" beyond what we already have?
21:06:24Juice^Llorean: yes, i know about the backdrop, is it also possible to have different backdrops for the various "pages" to be set?
21:06:46LloreanThat would either require a lot of wasted memory, or a lot of disk accesses.
21:07:11Juice^Well... svg is supported isnt it, which requires less space?
21:07:18Mikachuuh, no it isn't
21:07:24LloreanNo, SVG is not supported.
21:07:24Juice^oh ok
21:08:24Juice^would be sweet if it was
21:08:24Juice^just thinking loud
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21:08:41LloreanEven then, every menu screen having a buffer for a backdrop image would be pretty wasteful.
21:08:59LloreanEven a compressed one would still be wasting a lot of space for the people who wouldn't use it.
21:08:59Mikachurendering a .svg on every screen change would also be way too slow
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21:12:57linuxstbOne backdrop on the large LCDs (Gigabeat and ipod video) is 150KB...
21:13:05LloreanI could come up with a few nice options for themeing menus I think, as opposed to a straight list. They'd pretty much require customizable icons as a basis though.
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21:13:50Soapahh, linuxstb. The 4G grey manual, while using the old instructions, links to the new ipodpatcher - thus the install problems.
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21:14:15Juice^Thats what i thought of, like basic icons, but then you'd need to scroll even more downwards for the different menus etc..
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21:20:00perldiverNico_P are you there?
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21:25:57linuxstbSoap: Yes, there's a bug report in flyspray for the manuals. I think Febs said he was going to look at it, but obviously hadn't had chance yet.
21:27:05FebsCorrect. I just haven't had any time.
21:28:17Nico_Pperldiver: yes
21:28:59perldiverah never mind, just figured it out
21:29:02perldivereverything works great
21:29:11perldiverthe cue support, album art, all good
21:29:31perldiverlove the check marks on the progress bar heh
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21:36:12Soaplinuxstb: sorry, I should have checked for open bugs first.
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21:36:58perldiverwhats the file in the source where the background color being set globally?
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21:43:32linuxstbperldiver: The overall defaults are in firmware/export/lcd.h (LCD_DEFAULT_BG/FG), but they are overridden in the apps/ settings code. Although the LCD_DEFAULT values still seem to be used in some places, such as splashes.
21:43:48perldiverok thanks
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22:04:45Noah0504Hey, just a random question. Does anyone have an OiNK account?
22:05:37w1ll14mnoah: what is OiNK ?
22:06:12 Join Mouser_X [0] (
22:06:20Noah0504It's a torrent directory just for music, but it's a closed community. You have to have an invite to join, but I can't find anyone with an account for the life of me.
22:07:53LloreanSomehow I doubt that's a valid topic for discussion in this channel
22:08:12w1ll14mindeed, seems a little illegal
22:08:34LloreanWell, it's also simply not at all about Rockbox
22:08:42Noah0504I did say it was random.
22:08:48preglowNoah0504: tons of people have oink accounts, it's not really hard to get
22:08:55preglowbut enough about that
22:08:58preglowit's not rockbox, that's for sure
22:10:00LloreanNoah0504: Saying a question is Random doesn't miraculously make it okay to ask. :-P
22:10:20*Llorean sighs at yet another person who sees the EQ as simply a way of causing ridiculous amounts of bass.
22:10:33LloreanCouldn't these people preprocess their music or something if all they want to do is get the bass as high as possible?
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22:15:16preglowthe fun thing is you usually can't boost the bass too much either without getting heaps of distortion
22:15:22preglowat least not the way music is mastered these days
22:15:42thegeekit's the hardware that is the problem
22:15:50perldiverin the case of ipods its just bad hardware
22:15:58Mikachucan't you just lower treble and raise the volume?
22:16:00thegeekthe easiest way to get "good" natural bass is with some kind of external amp
22:16:08LloreanIt's not 'just' bad hardware. A good portion of it is that he wants the bass to physically move his head.
22:16:16LloreanWhich is usually a bit more than is intended in *any* situation with headphones.
22:17:03thegeekit's certainly possible, but the integrated circuits in a dap is not likely to provide it
22:18:39preglowthegeek: nah, that'd require analogue electronics, which people aren't too keen on adding these days :)
22:18:57thegeeka small external headphone amp works very well
22:19:04preglowindeed it does
22:19:12perldivernot talking about people who really want to blow their brains out with huge amount of bass of course
22:19:25perldiverbut its very hard to get a decent range from ipods even with good headphones
22:19:25idnarI hate it when people "crank up the base"
22:19:41scorcheLlorean: wow....can he even identify his music altering it that much?
22:19:44idnara headphone amp works wonders, though
22:20:41Lloreanscorche: But... but... it's the way it's *meant* to be played.
22:21:00Mikachucan't he just play the music normally and suck on a pneumatic drill?
22:21:47scorchethose idiot recording mixers....what do they expect those who play on a device that cannot increase bass to obscene levels?
22:21:56scorche+ to do
22:22:50hcshmm... headphones + spring loaded boxing glove to punch you in the face on the beat
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22:26:25webguest65I keep getting the error: Permission denied when configuring with VMware. What am I doing wrong?
22:27:49 Quit OgMaciel ("Ex-Chat")
22:28:24Bagderwebguest65: and the 'x' bit is set for configure so that it is executable for your user?
22:28:26|Rincewind|the problem can be that your source files have DOS line endings. Did you copy the source from windows?
22:28:51webguest65yes a tar file
22:29:22webguest65downloaded a tar file and placed it in rockbox-devel
22:29:31MikachuBagder: i had a great idea earlier, another build table but one that shows the size of rockbox.ipod/etc
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22:30:06Bagderyeah, indeed a good idea
22:30:11Mikachu16:25:48 <preglow> Mikachu: very good idea
22:30:11Mikachu16:27:06 <LinusN> but a binary size status page is a nice idea
22:30:21blacknessI have a 60 gig ipod video and am currently using it as a storage device with the original firmware. Do I need to back everything up before installing rockbox?
22:30:22|Rincewind|webguest65: then you have lots of problems. It is better if you do a svn checkout inside vmware.
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22:30:52Bagderblackness: nope, although backups are never wrong...
22:31:13webguest65svn? Should I re-install VMware?
22:31:22blacknesswell its just I don't have the space or the time really, is it known to ever delete everything?
22:31:37Bagderblackness: no you should be pretty safe
22:31:59blacknessthanks badger, i'll be back later with more brain busters :)
22:32:11|Rincewind|if have vmware image is relativly new then you don't have to install it again
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22:32:45|Rincewind|sorry, there are some words missing in my last post
22:32:48hcsalrighty, I think it's time to get back to work on the wiki viewer
22:33:10webguest65I'm using a vmware image from say...2 to 3 months ago?
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22:33:17 Part blackness
22:33:22|Rincewind|then it's to old
22:33:30Mikachuif you're compiling for arm/ipods you need -4 or update gcc yourself to 4.0.3
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22:34:57hcsMikachu: aye, FS 4755
22:35:14webguest65thx...I will get a current copy thx RINCEWIND and MIKACHU
22:35:19Mikachunothing for us nano users
22:35:32hcsit looks like I don't have enough disk space for the dump right now, bah
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22:36:03Mikachucan't you get a subset for testing?
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22:36:21hcsMikachu: I like to deal with the whole thing, I needed to clean out the ol' hdd anyway
22:36:35Nico_Pi tried to create a new bg bitmap for brickmania and now the plugin segfaults when i load it... what could i be doing wrong ?
22:36:43Mikachutons of stuff
22:36:56Mikachuis it the same resolution as the old one?
22:37:08Nico_Pit's a 240x320 one for the gigabeat
22:37:15Mikachuis it also the same filesize?
22:37:33Nico_Pwell there wasn't one of that res before so no
22:38:59Nico_Pam i supposed to change something in brickmania.c ?
22:39:16n1sNico_P: probably
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22:43:19linuxstbNico_P: Try a "make clean" - the bmp2rb build system is very robust when changing bitmap sizes....
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22:44:07Bagderrecorder : 161730
22:44:09Bagderrecorderv2 : 248720
22:44:09Bagderplayer : 181178
22:44:22Bagderrockbox binary image sizes
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22:45:55preglowmax sizes?
22:46:07Bagdercurrent sizes in the .zip files
22:46:27Nico_Plinuxstb: it works :)
22:47:07amiconn_Bagder: The recorder size in this list isn't very helpful. It's the compressed size
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22:47:19BagderI know, but that's the size it has in the zip
22:51:40fasmaie_Nico_P: Thanks for updating the album art atch
22:52:05Nico_Pfasmaie_: you're welcome
22:52:26Nico_Pafter all, it's my patch, i have to maintain it ;)
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22:55:51Bagderstarting now, I'll make a size "dump" for each build round
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22:56:01perldivercant get enough of cue sheet support :P
22:56:01Nico_Panyone have ideas on how brickmania could be adapted to the gigabeat's screen ?
22:56:17Nico_Pcurrently the bricks are at the top and the pad all the way down
22:56:19perldiverNico_P could you show the original?
22:56:29perldiveri mean the startup screen
22:56:41Nico_Pthe startup screen isn't the problem
22:56:46Nico_Pi'm talking about gameplay
22:56:57perldiveri dont mind the bricks at the top and the pad all the way dowb
22:57:02perldiverits quite alright
22:57:17perldiverits very playable
22:57:25Bagderyou probably need to rotate or crop the play field to get the same aspect as the other targets
22:57:41Nico_Pperldiver: i find it a bit too easy and there is too much empty space
22:57:52amiconnbrickmania playability varies a lot across targets
22:57:56Nico_PBagder: yeah probably
22:58:10n1sNico_P: or add more bricks!
22:58:44mattzzI made a proposal to sort plugins so that rockbox/rocks does not become overcrowded.
22:59:42LloreanNico_P: Just rotate it 90 degrees, and then it's the same as the iPod5G
22:59:56n1smattzz: that has come up a lot of times, and I don't really know why noone has made it yet...
23:00:08 Quit fasmaie (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:00:18Nico_PLlorean: yeah why not... the only thing is i'm not sure it's easy to just rotate the whole screen
23:00:29n1sand I'd like to call the "screensavers" Demos, it sounds way 'cooler' :-D
23:00:39Lloreann1s: Because the way the browser works right now, there'd need to be "Browse Games" "Browse Screensavers" and "Browse Tools" rather than just one option
23:01:09BagderNico_P: no, since there's no "system level" support for rotate, you need to add it to brickmania and it may not be just a minor fix
23:01:15n1sLlorean: yes, but couldn't these be put in a submenu under 'Plugins'
23:01:31LloreanYeah, they could
23:01:52Nico_PBagder: that's what i thought... i might just crop the playing field for now
23:02:16LloreanNico_P: So, instead of fixing the plugin, come up with a way to rotate the whole screen and you've the potential to fix a few plugins in one swoop. :-P
23:02:19n1sI'd like it that way, less buttonpresses to get where you want and no more clutter in the main menu
23:02:46*amiconn wonders why we're building plugins with -O
23:02:57n1samiconn: all of them?
23:03:03amiconnShouldn't that be -O2 / -Os according to the top-level makefile?
23:03:08*Bagder can't recall any good reason
23:03:11amiconnLooks like it
23:03:30amiconn...provided that if multiple -O options are given, gcc chooses the last one
23:03:49*amiconn checks the gcc manual
23:03:59preglowamiconn: i think it chooses the one specifying the highest level of opts
23:05:03perldiverwith the latest build i cant enter the Repeat menu
23:05:14amiconn"If you use multiple -O options, with or without level numbers, the last such option is the one that is effective."
23:05:21amiconnFrom the gcc 4.0.4 manual
23:05:24perldivernothing happens when pressed
23:05:46*amiconn re-checks this on a swcodec target
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23:06:03amiconnMaybe we're building other stuff with unwanted -O levels, like codecs
23:07:08preglowthat wouldn't exactly be desirable
23:07:26preglowbut i think they're O2
23:07:34preglowin windows now, so can't test
23:07:59amiconnHmm, the plain -O is during linking, maybe it's not that important there
23:08:01n1samiconn: I'm fairly certain most codecs have tuned O levels, I played around with tremor and it didn't get better at any other level...
23:08:13preglowamiconn: it shouldn't matter at all, the O flag isn't passed to ld
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23:13:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:21:44amiconnHmm. On coldfire we're building (almost) everything with just -O
23:22:14Nico_Pmarkun: i just read on the gigabeat wiki page that there is a fix for the brickmania menu
23:24:26amiconnTo be precise, everything except the codec libs and rockboy
23:25:18amiconn...and some other sub-dir plugins
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23:27:54preglowi wonder what the size difference will be with O2
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23:31:06amiconnThe same is true for arm (with the exception of libmad, where -O is tested to be better on arm)
23:34:07amiconnSlasheri: structec.c makes up only a small part of the increased code size, ~400 bytes. I wonder why the changes in tagcache.c increase code size that much...
23:34:17markunNico_P: I actually fixed it in my old cvs tree :)
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23:34:30Nico_Pmarkun: i fixed it
23:34:34Nico_Pi'll commit it soon
23:35:03Nico_Pmarkun: do you think it's a good idea to have the pad higher up ?
23:35:08preglowamiconn: what's the total size gain?
23:36:03amiconnThe endian conversion commit? About 1300 bytes on sh
23:36:11preglowthat's just weird
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23:37:04preglowmost of the changes in tagcache.c is just read -> ecread and write -> ecwrite
23:37:16amiconnYes, but those functions take more parameters
23:37:32preglowsure, but i still wouldn't have thought it amounted to that much
23:39:09amiconnIt does...
23:45:21markunNico_P: perhaps we should rotate the plugin?
23:45:41amiconnHmm, H300 doesn't build with -O2
23:45:42Nico_Pmarkun: that would be the ideal solution but it's far from trivial
23:45:47markunAnd if we do that we can also just use the ipod 5g graphics
23:45:56preglowamiconn: where does it bug out?
23:46:02amiconn...and neither does mini G2
23:46:08Nico_Pfor now i've reduced the game area by placing the pad higher up
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23:47:03Nico_Pit makes the game a bit more fun
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23:47:17amiconnThis is just nonsense; CDROMNEWBLK isn't a function
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23:47:57blacknessso rockbox doesn't support video for the ipod?
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23:48:10amiconnAnd -O2 throws warnings in playback.c, both for coldfire and arm:
23:48:11amiconnplayback.c: In function 'voice_request_buffer_callback':
23:48:11amiconnplayback.c:1220: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules
23:48:11DBUGEnqueued KICK amiconn
23:48:11amiconnplayback.c:1220: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules
23:48:24preglowi don't even know what that means
23:49:13markunpreglow: you never use type-punning? ;)
23:50:35blacknessis there a way to do a dual boot with the original firmware?
23:51:40 Quit BHSPitLappy (Remote closed the connection)
23:52:29amiconnBtw, -O2 for mini G2 fails with a different error (but the warning in playback.c is the same)
23:52:56blacknessi'm so lost
23:53:21CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
23:53:21*DerPapst agrees
23:54:38amiconnThe oh so clever gcc.
23:54:45preglowamiconn: those are long call errors, but still weird
23:55:45preglowgcc's support for anything not x86 or powerpc is lacklustre at best :/
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23:58:33Tom0473where can i buy a backligbt bulb for archos multimedia jukebox? for low price
23:58:56amiconnpreglow: It works for arm when disabling one single optimisation

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