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#rockbox log for 2007-02-18

00:00:05Bagderdionoea: only if you mailed me your existing user name and a new selected password!
00:00:11dionoeathen i don't :)
00:00:30peturamiconn: maybe you like this German client? I like it...
00:01:21 Join Echelon [0] (
00:01:25Mikachui would recommend xchat but i hear their windows binary isn't free
00:01:31Mikachuas in beer
00:01:53*petur would have triggered if his stomach was ok
00:02:03Echelongrab the silverex binary
00:02:05XavierGrmirc is the best for me in windows though sadly it isn't free
00:02:07Echelonthats the free win32 xchat
00:02:11*preglow has gin and tonic
00:02:16BigBambiMikachu: there are free versions available
00:02:28BigBambiHa, beaten to it
00:02:33*amiconn doesn't like xchat
00:02:46*preglow neiher
00:02:47Mikachume neither :)
00:03:22amiconnIt's ok-ish, I like the clean look of hydra much better
00:03:34preglowi like the text mode look
00:03:38Echelonmidgey, mind not slamming me with every CTCP request in the book?
00:03:41preglowhence love of irssi, heh
00:03:48amiconnAnd the free win32 version of xchat crashed on me a lot, while hydra is rock stable
00:03:51XavierGrwell I tried hydra once, but I felt quite limited with it
00:04:10preglowhydra looks pretty much like mirc to me
00:04:11midgeyEchelon: sorry about that.. i wasnt aware what the buttons did on colloquy
00:04:13MikachuEchelon: what do you expect with that nick? :)
00:04:13Echelonirssi + cygwin ;)
00:04:28*Mikachu waits for midgey to slap Echelon around with a large trout
00:04:38EchelonMikachu, a port scan, strip search, etc.
00:04:44*midgey will do no slapping
00:04:56preglowtoo bad forehead's not around, i feel like slapping
00:05:13Echelonhead on, apply directly to the forehead.
00:05:28XavierGrpreglow: LOL
00:05:39 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
00:05:45 Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
00:05:50 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (n=thunderc@
00:07:01*linuxstb_ reads about a Fujitsu 300GB 2.5" disk, but it's SATA...
00:07:16ender`SATA or SAS?
00:07:52linuxstb_The article I read said SATA
00:08:00Mikachuwhat is SAS?
00:08:20ender`SCSI Attached Storage (serial SCSI)
00:08:41 Quit dpassen1 (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
00:08:53preglowscsi needs to die
00:09:31*petur had scsi until 2 years ago
00:10:40linuxstb_Seems that 2.5" PATA is stopping at 160GB... :(
00:10:47ender`scsi is dying
00:10:59ender`new servers are SAS only
00:11:09Bagderscsi is still used widely like in usb-storage etc
00:11:18preglowi don't see much of an advantage with it
00:11:27preglowwouldn't usb do the job nice-ish?
00:11:28BagderI mean, the transport, not the physical
00:12:08amiconnpreglow: USB is way slower than SAS
00:12:15peturscsi used to be your only hope in PATA-only land, because PATA sucked, SATA changed that
00:12:32ender`SAS is backwards-compatible with SATA
00:12:40amiconnSAS uses the same physical links as SATA,
00:12:45Mikachudoesn't usb suck in many ways?
00:12:50preglowMikachu: it does
00:12:56amiconninitially at SATA-2 speed (3GBit/s)
00:13:23ender`you can connect SATA devices to SAS controller, but not vice-versa
00:13:37preglowamiconn: yes it is, i can't think of many things requiring speeds above what usb2 offers
00:13:44preglowinsert "but"
00:13:54amiconnHard disks in servers surely do
00:14:07preglowah, yes, but those'd do nicely with even just sata
00:14:52linuxstb_Dealing with video, especially hi-def...
00:16:23preglowi can imagine realtime transport of that requiring a ton of bandwidth, yes
00:19:50dionoeai've seen talk about using bmps for background images in the bootloader. Is that already available ?
00:19:52ender`you probably don't want to deal with completely uncompressed hi-def video - that'd need 180MB/s, which you're unlikely to get off hard disks
00:20:02Mikachu% units '1920 * 1080 * 24 bits * 29.97' MiB -t
00:20:12SoapIt doesn't take /that/ many USB drives to saturate the bus, esp. if you make the mistake of trying to RAID them.
00:20:26LearWhat, only 30p? :)
00:20:27Bagderwell, there are many systems that deal with fully uncompressed video
00:21:12amiconnender`: A moderate scsi or sas raid with 15krpm disks should be able to handle that
00:21:38linuxstb_It's not simply realtime processing though - you want to do manipulations as fast as possible.
00:21:54linuxstb_So you can never have enough speed.
00:22:08Mikachuone hour of that would be 632GB
00:22:38 Quit midkay (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:23:04Mikachui wonder if hdtv cameras compress straight to mpeg2
00:23:27Mikachuor if they have some sort of crazy multi terabyte magnetic tapes
00:23:28ender`it probably depends on the camera
00:23:35Bagderhdtv is mpeg4 at places... :-)
00:23:37linuxstb_dionoea: The gigabeat bootloader can load images in a raw bitmap format, not bmp. That's the only bootloader that does it though afaik.
00:24:20Mikachudoesn't rockbox load like 1 second after the bootloader?
00:25:00Soapoh, no one said it was a useful feature ;)
00:25:04linuxstb_Yes, but I can see the point if Rockbox itself then doesn't clear the LCD until the file browser appears.
00:25:33preglowMikachu: they usually compress straight away, yes
00:25:42preglowbut it all depends what segment you're in
00:25:48Mikachui made the bootloader not clear the screen, keeping the apple the ipod puts there, then i show a worm-eaten apple in the rockbox splash
00:26:10linuxstb_Shame we can't include that image...
00:26:29 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
00:26:50Mikachuthe apple apple or my apple?
00:27:06linuxstb_Isn't your apple the same apple as apple's apple?
00:27:25Mikachui'm not exactly sure where i got it from
00:27:41Mikachuit is very similar though
00:27:53Mikachuand even the worm might be protected, i just googled around :)
00:28:17 Quit idnar (Nick collision from services.)
00:28:20 Join idnar_ [0] (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
00:28:27 Nick idnar_ is now known as mithrandi (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
00:28:28Mikachuthis is it
00:28:32 Nick mithrandi is now known as idnar (
00:28:42Mikachuthe apple the ipod shows is gradienty though, but i couldn't find that image anywhere
00:29:35linuxstb_It will be in your ipod's flash somewhere...
00:29:54 Quit Thundercloud__ (Connection timed out)
00:34:03Mikachui probably wouldn't know it even if i looked straight at it, i'm not good at finding things in binary images :)
00:34:28Margot_Mikachu don`t u sleep?
00:34:37Margot_or have private life?
00:34:50Mikachuyeah that was funny
00:34:53Mikachudo another one
00:35:02Margot_i see u here all the time
00:35:11Mikachuso you also don't sleep?
00:35:18Margot_speaking from morning to the evening
00:35:34Margot_well i`m drunk so i`m excused
00:36:02 Quit Xh4 (Remote closed the connection)
00:36:04preglowyou're drunk all the time?
00:36:11Mikachulike you!
00:36:15Margot_if i want
00:36:19preglowi'm not even drunk now!
00:36:33 Join printfXh4 [0] (
00:36:35preglowi can't do dsp when drunk
00:36:38preglownot well, at any rate
00:36:45preglownot that i think i've ever tried
00:36:53Margot_u should
00:37:07Margot_beeing drunk makes u think more straight
00:37:24peturMikachu: irfanview can open raw files as images
00:37:44Mikachulots of things can
00:37:53Margot_how can u say yes if u didn`t try it ;P ?
00:38:24Margot_ah i`m beeing to hard for u guys
00:38:25Margot_excuse me
00:39:04Mikachubut i don't know how or where the flash image is stored in the firmware image, maybe it's zipped or something
00:39:35 Join RogerBacon [0] (
00:39:38peturtrial and error
00:40:15preglowMargot_: i probably did try it, but forgot it
00:40:23RogerBaconhi, im still trying to find someone that have freetime in the next week to analyse the gigabeat S firmware (reverse engennering)
00:40:45RogerBaconwe dont need the device, because we are trying to find a buffer overflow, bug in the bootloader.
00:40:49linuxstbMikachu: You'll need to dump the flash from your ipod.
00:41:22preglowRogerBacon: not an easy thing to look for when you don't have source code
00:41:32linuxstb(in the bootloader, before Rockbox remaps it. Just write(fd,0,512*1024*1024) will do it)
00:41:35RogerBaconthe binary file are now extracted, you can find it in the Gigabeat S wiki.
00:41:46linuxstb(sorry, 512*1024 - 512KB.)
00:42:54RogerBaconpreglow : yeah, it's the only way because the firmware are signed.
00:43:45preglowRogerBacon: it the signing algo is uncrackable?
00:44:23RogerBaconpreglow : no, sha1 + rsa key.
00:45:01preglownot good, then
00:45:22preglowwhy can't they be nicer to us :/
00:45:27 Quit printfXh4 (Remote closed the connection)
00:45:54 Join printfXh4 [0] (
00:45:56Mikachulinuxstb: i'm assuming that since the firmware updates flash the flash, they have a flash image in them
00:46:23Mikachulinuxstb: where will it end up?
00:46:42Mikachulinuxstb: i guess in fd :) sorry
00:46:47RogerBaconpreglow : that only for an mp3 player, i dont know why tosh and microsoft have implented all this protection
00:46:59 Quit ender` (" AAAAA: Association Against Acronym Abuse and Ambiguity.")
00:47:05RogerBaconits not for a cellphone for exemple ..
00:47:09preglowRogerBacon: pirating is a big problem, it seems
00:47:34RogerBaconwe just want to put rockbox on this device
00:47:42Mikachubut pirates don't exactly get their source files from internet stores
00:47:48RogerBaconto support more audio format
00:48:00RogerBaconand toshiba have dropped the support ..
00:48:05preglowhow nice!
00:48:14preglowhow long since the device was released?
00:48:19preglowyear and a half?
00:49:19RogerBaconyeah, when you call tosh customer service, and report for exemple bug with mp3 idtag (unknow album etc..) he told you that he know this problem but this company has never releashed a firmware update to correct the bug.
00:49:43preglownice people indeed
00:50:05 Join pixelma [0] (i=54bd60f1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:50:08preglowwell, just looking blindly at the code in hope of finding a buffer overflow will be hard
00:50:30preglowyou had better just start finding the areas where you know external data is loaded, then look for bugs there
00:50:36preglowunluckily, even just that isn't very easy
00:50:51RogerBaconapril 2006
00:53:37RogerBaconthats bad, because this device as the best audio output availible wet and cannot play FLAC ...
00:54:01SoapI'd like to see the RMAA tests to back up that claim.
00:54:15 Quit Echelon ()
00:54:26 Quit Mmmm (Remote closed the connection)
00:54:36Juice^will be so happy if the sansa ever gets audio working :)
00:55:58RogerBaconSoap : In new audio quality tests conducted by the PC World Test Center, the Gigabeat S earned an overall score of Very Good. The player generated a very clean signal (its signal-to-noise ratio was the highest we measured), and it achieved a very high volume before its audio reached 1 percent distortion (an industry-standard measurement). Also, its total harmonic distortion was very low. See details on how we test audio player
00:56:05RogerBacon(pcworld test)
00:56:51 Join Mouser_X [0] (
00:57:20preglowhow's the legality issue on backdoors anyway? would the entire sha1 + rsa deal count as copy protection?
00:57:34preglowif it did, circumventing it might not be entirely legal some places
00:59:20RogerBaconits just security feature.
00:59:25RogerBaconnot copy protection.
00:59:49RogerBaconcopy protection = DRM for me.
01:00:10preglowyeah, i agree, but i'm not a lawyer
01:00:20linuxstbMikachu: I've found your Apple...
01:00:21dionoeaprotecting the software which implements the DRM is part of copy protection i guess :)
01:00:26SoapRogerBacon: none of those numbers are exceptional.
01:00:27dan_aArgh! On my 3G, with the coprocessor patch, I'm getting a data abort. I've looked in the .map to find what caused it, and it's the UIE routine...
01:00:36 Quit mattzz ("Leaving")
01:00:48pixelmathe build table looks... interesting
01:01:07SoapRogerBacon: they are all solid - but not of them are out of the ordinary. I wasn't challenging that it was good, I was challenging that it had "The best audio output avaliible"
01:01:47Mikachulinuxstb: :O
01:02:06Mikachulinuxstb: i am a bit afraid i'd overwrite my flash instead of reading from it :)
01:04:24preglowdan_a: \o/
01:04:39MikachuSoap: ^
01:04:45 Quit Juice^ ("Leaving")
01:04:59linuxstbFrom my 5g's flash...
01:05:23linuxstbIt was upside-down in the flash for some reason...
01:05:29Soapthank you Mikachu / linuxstb
01:05:46Mikachulooks like it's the same resolution
01:10:07 Join saratoga [0] (i=98039a42@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:10:37saratogawe really need to make a database of rmaa test results so that we don't get into arguements about which player has the best output
01:11:05 Quit PaulJam (".")
01:11:21*petur thinks he's found a fat bug but is unsure of the solution
01:11:34linuxstbThe bug I reported, or something else?
01:11:40peturyour bug
01:11:53linuxstbIt's not my bug :)
01:12:08Mikachuokay, updated :)
01:12:30peturlinuxstb: and it only occurs if you do exactly like you did (that order, and adding extra chars after the extension)
01:12:32linuxstbIs it the same apple as the Nano ?
01:12:42Mikachuit looks the right size, compiling now
01:13:04linuxstbpetur: It was pure chance that I noticed it - only because I don't know how to use Rockbox's vkeyboard...
01:14:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:16:36*Mikachu considers removing pacbox,doom,zxbox from SUBDIRS to save compile time
01:17:11 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
01:17:22Mikachudamn, it's displaced by 3 pixels :)
01:18:05 Join darkless [0] (
01:18:19Mikachui'll save that for another day
01:18:45peturlinuxstb: the problem is that when writing config01.cfg, that shortname already exists (from config01.cfgA) and because it's no long filename, you cannot randomize because it changes the filename you get to see. Maybe always randomizing if longname fixes this
01:19:00 Quit funky ("leaving")
01:19:25Mikachushouldn't config01.cfgA use a shortname like config~1.cfg?
01:19:45peturmaybe, yes
01:19:53peturbut we don't
01:20:07RogerBaconthat could be usefull to inject code inside winCE since the firmware is decrypted :
01:20:12 Quit perl|perl ("some games are better left unplayed")
01:21:15 Part barrywardell
01:23:50peturon windows, it tries to overwrite the first file
01:24:29peturif I create config01.cfgA and then config~1.cfg, the latter tries to overwrite the first
01:24:33linuxstb_petur: All the recent FAT bugs seem to be related to longnames, maybe we should find out how other systems do it (e.g. Linux, or even Windows if it's documented), and copy it.
01:25:10Mikachulinux has some mount options for shortnames
01:25:17peturwell windows has no solution to this issue as it tris to access the first file
01:25:21Mikachuthe default is the ~ stuff i think, but you can just truncate too
01:25:37linuxstb_Ah, so the bug exists in WIndows?
01:25:47Mikachuit's more like a bug in the spec if you ask me
01:25:58peturnot a real bug, no
01:26:18peturit's handled as if the file already exsts
01:26:49linuxstb_I misread... I assume creating config01.cfgA followed by config01.cfg works?
01:27:08peturso writing config01.cfg should see that its shortname already exists AND it can't randomize because its not a longname
01:27:19peturthat order fails
01:27:23Mikachuthis was new, flac with .cue in the comments field
01:27:37peturfirst config01.cfg and then the longname one will work
01:27:40 Join dpassen1 [0] (
01:28:23linuxstb_Always randomising the longname seems a sensible solution though, without much impact.
01:28:56peturtrouble is for 8.3 names only the shortname is used, so you can't always randomize
01:29:14peturnot a simple hack to fix :(
01:29:20linuxstb_I mean randomising if it isn't 8.3.
01:29:33peturah yes, that would work
01:29:52peturunless you created a random name you later wanted to make yourself
01:29:59peturyou'd again hit that bug
01:30:19linuxstb_Let's drop FAT32 and implement ext2 or HFS...
01:30:23*linuxstb_ runs
01:30:38JdGordonwhats up with all the warnings in svn? Is somone fixing them or is it up to anyone who can be bothered to fx?
01:30:56peturwe must also check that: if we're 8.3 and the entry already exists, we can't create the file
01:31:23peturJdGordon: read the irc log of tonight...
01:31:34linuxstb_Maybe the solution is that the second create should fail - so if config01.cfgA exists, then config01.cfg can't be created.
01:31:48 Quit Landus (No route to host)
01:32:05peturlinuxstb: that's what I wanted to say in my last line
01:32:07 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
01:32:21peturbut only for 8.3 names
01:32:23JdGordonpetur: any idea from when about?
01:32:39linuxstb_Search for Bagder...
01:32:50linuxstb_And Wundef
01:33:24 Quit Mouser_X (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
01:34:26 Join Mouser_X [0] (
01:34:32 Join perl|perl [0] (
01:34:43*petur wonders where the code checks for dupe name creation
01:35:33 Join justjohnny68 [0] (
01:37:57peturhmmm... maybe file.c should also compare the shortname when scanning for the file
01:38:25peturthat's what windows seems to do
01:38:56peturquite confusing for the enduser because you get a dupe error even though dir doesn't show that file
01:39:06preglowsweet lord, sometimes i hate fixed point
01:39:11petur(unless the correct switch is used)
01:39:15preglowsomeone needs to come and tell me how to do this properly
01:39:18linuxstb_Indeed. But better than a corrupted filesystem...
01:39:43Mikachuyou could print the name of the conflicting shortname's longname
01:39:50Mikachu-name of
01:39:57linuxstb_And as no-one else has spotted it in 5 years of Rockbox, it's probably not very common...
01:40:38peturit only happens in the scenario you described (add text after the extension)
01:40:51peturso the shortname exists
01:41:25peturso 1) always randomize if it's a longname
01:41:41Mikachuyou could also make the vkeyboard only ask for the pre-.cfg part and append .cfg later
01:41:44petur2) give an error if 8.3 and the shortname already exists
01:41:46*jhMikeS wonders what preglow's doing and has no idea how to do it properly ;)
01:41:55Mikachubut making the fat driver nonbuggy is also good of course
01:42:35Mikachuand you can rename any files i guess, so it doesn't really solve anything
01:42:55preglowjhMikeS: design filters especially for use with fixed point maths
01:43:39*linuxstb_ wonders if anyone here would want to convert flake to fixed-point...
01:44:01peturI'll just do the randomize thing and declare the bug fixed :)
01:44:15preglowlinuxstb_: the bit with levinson-durbin won't be easy...
01:44:18 Quit Domonoky (Remote closed the connection)
01:44:36linuxstb_Could that part be avoided?
01:45:20preglowby no means
01:45:36preglowit's pretty much the heart of the entire compression deal
01:45:44*linuxstb_ just read that in the source...
01:45:48preglowbut i'm no expert either, just looking at the code would be the easiest way
01:45:58 Join decayedcell [0] (
01:45:58preglowto tell if it'll be easy, that is
01:47:55 Quit midgey ()
01:51:25perl|perlrandom question, why would any usb port disconnect and right away reconnect any storage device connected
01:52:08peturpowerdraw at limit?
01:52:08decayedcellwhat do you mean when you plug it in it disconnects then connects again?
01:52:28perl|perlit stays connected for a random period
01:52:42perl|perland then disconnects and reconnects by itself
01:53:12preglowi just got a valid filter out of this thing
01:53:18preglowvery unexpected
01:54:58preglowjhMikeS: btw, finished with that resampler asm soon? :V
01:55:29jhMikeSsoon. was a bit busy earlier
01:56:28jhMikeSI also optimized the c code and few other bits like convert_to_internal
01:56:36JdGordonsomeone mentioned wanting to add the scrolling margins patch in?
01:56:50preglowjhMikeS: good, dsp.c definitely needs it
01:57:14 Join Ne-X-us [0] (
01:57:36preglowJdGordon: aren't you the one who yesterday said something about not commiting size increasing stuff until rombox is back? ;)
01:57:56jhMikeSthe c code optimization alone (with cleaner c resampler) takes the spc codec boost down a good 10-12%
01:58:13preglowsweet, sweet, sweet
01:58:25jhMikeSbut I can see gcc's a bit retarded and asm will do a good bit better
01:58:35JdGordonpreglow: hehe yeah, but i want to add RTL support into the list which would benefit greatly from it
01:59:32 Quit pixelma (".")
02:02:01*petur runs off to bed... fix will be for some other time
02:02:08 Quit petur ("Zzzzzz")
02:04:21jhMikeSwas thinking I'd (maybe not now) get rid of all that dsp_input/output_size stuff and let the dsp deal with pcm buffer insertion so it's all more in a pipeline as codec->dsp->pcm buffer. better or no?
02:05:57preglowsounds better
02:06:15preglowbut depends on overhead
02:07:09preglowLear: alive still?
02:07:11jhMikeSless overhead and a start of modularizing things
02:07:21preglowjhMikeS: then i'd say all good
02:08:15Mikachuperl|perl: my hub sometimes unplugs all connect devices when i connect/disconnect another device
02:10:04 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:10:06perl|perlMikachu i just tried 2 mp3 players and an external drive separately from each other
02:10:19 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
02:10:21perl|perlit stays connected for a random period of time
02:10:32perl|perlnot that long though, like 5 minutes
02:11:04Mikachui see how that could get annoying
02:11:07jhMikeSat least the 88k wavpacks will play again too :)
02:13:25 Quit x1jmp (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:13:38preglowi'll do the arm assembler whenever you commit your stuff
02:13:56 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
02:14:05 Join Mouser_X [0] (
02:15:24jhMikeSpreglow: sweet :) is a movclr.l %accx, %dx any slower than move.l %accx, %dx in your experience? it doesn't really need clearing all the time if so.
02:15:52preglowi think they're about the same
02:16:01preglowas far as i know, they're equally fast
02:17:52preglowand i can't find any timing info on movclr
02:18:03jhMikeSguess i'll test it out with/without
02:18:19preglowif the clearing isn't needed, then i'd just use the move.l
02:18:39 Quit Thundercloud_ (Remote closed the connection)
02:18:40preglowit'd surprise me somewhat if an instruction doing less work would be the slower
02:19:40jhMikeSwould only need clearing when the whole function is done really
02:22:08preglowwouldn't defining CONFIG_USBOTG and all these variables alike it to CONFIG_NONE or something in the case it's not present be wise?
02:22:27preglowthe dual defined() and == check right now seems a bit redundant
02:23:01 Quit decayedcell (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:23:21Mikachuyeah, if you do defined() you work around the whole point of the warning
02:23:29Mikachuif you typo both in defined() and the == check
02:24:15JdGordonhmm... I was copying Magnus' .. config_none would be much better tho
02:24:31Mikachuor just 0
02:24:32preglowif possible, that is, it might require some kind of "base config" file
02:24:38Mikachuit's hard to misinterpret in this context
02:26:15 Join Obsys [0] (
02:26:51JdGordondefining config_none to 0 looks like it would be ok.. but yeah, still need a base config to actually set it
02:27:00linuxstb_Would putting #ifndef CONFIG_XXX -> #define CONFIG_XXX 0 in config.h be a solution?
02:27:34JdGordonI was just thinking that
02:27:47Mikachuthat would keep all typos in a single file :)
02:27:49JdGordonit wouldnt get everything.. but it would a few
02:27:53preglowif it doesn't defeat the whole reason -Wundef is used, then go ahead, i'd say
02:28:09linuxstb_So only the CONFIG variables we know should be defined as 0 are - I think that's the difference compared to the old way.
02:28:23linuxstb_So CONFIC_CODEC wouldn't be...
02:28:24Mikachubut then you have to be sure you're not using #ifdef somewhere
02:28:45JdGordon#define CONFIG_UNDEFINED 0 ? or not even bother with a name and just define them 0?
02:28:49preglowsure, but that we have to anyway
02:29:11JdGordoncodec would... isnt that in config-target.h ?
02:30:13linuxstb_CONFIC_CODEC was the typo that caused this change.
02:30:17 Quit Ne-X-us ()
02:30:32perl|perltrying to play various FLACs here
02:30:41perl|perlsometimes it jumps to a random folder
02:30:41linuxstb_BTW, rbutil is looking good now - it needs testing...
02:30:53perl|perlgigabeat target
02:31:21linuxstb_Sure you haven't enabled the "jump to random folder" option?
02:31:23 Quit wooo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:31:44perl|perlno shuffle, no random folders
02:31:48linuxstb_Corrupt filesystem?
02:32:06perl|perlnever happened with mp3s
02:32:18perl|perli just uploaded like 30 folders of FLACs
02:32:30perl|perlselecting them randomly
02:32:36perl|perland sometimes when i press select
02:32:51perl|perlit jumps to some random file in some random folder
02:33:03perl|perland starts playing it
02:33:27perl|perlhard to reproduce though
02:33:36perl|perlhappened like 4 times already nevertheless
02:33:42Lloreanperl|perl: As linuxstb asked, have you checked your filesystem?
02:34:06perl|perlwhats the best way to check it?
02:34:35linuxstb_Did you eject/unmount your gigabeat cleanly after copying those flacs?
02:34:37XavierGrthis must be the most colourfull tables I've seen so far!
02:34:39perl|perli dont have much better left it seems, maybe that contributes too
02:34:54XavierGrActually they are quite beautiful :D
02:35:15perl|perllinuxstb yes
02:35:17JdGordon... grr... explicitly defining the unused CONFIG_'s is going to screw up SOURCES :(
02:35:19perl|perlalways do that
02:35:35Mikachuimo those if defined() changes should be reverted before they spread too far
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02:36:14linuxstb_Change the #ifdef CONFIG_XXX to #if CONFIG_XXX ?
02:36:19linuxstb_(in SOURCES)
02:36:42linuxstb_But I'm falling asleep, so don't listen to me....
02:36:54Lloreanperl|perl: Do a scandisk/chkdsk/whatever your OS supplies on the drive.
02:36:56 Quit Rondom (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:37:44Mikachufsck.vfat in linux
02:38:47linuxstb_JdGordon: The #ifdef CONFIG_TUNER is the only problem I can see in SOURCES, and the one in firmware/SOURCES could just be deleted.
02:39:24JdGordongrr... and there is heaps of #ifdefs in the actual source :(
02:40:20linuxstb_Goodnight all...
02:40:23 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC")
02:45:05preglowmy bedtime too
02:51:08 Join pintree [0] (
02:51:35pintreeerror on last step of installation on 5.5G 30GB 'Couldn't open input file bootloader.ipodvideo.ipod'
02:52:01linuxstbJust run ipodpatcher without any options - i.e. just type "ipodpatcher"
02:52:28pintreefollowed by a 2nd error "−−add-bootloader failed"
02:52:35JdGordonlinuxstb: thought you were going to bed? wanna check this patch to fix the config_tuner warnings quickly?
02:52:56linuxstbI am going to bed, but yes, I'll have a quick look...">">
02:53:46Mikachuwhy are you changing from ifdef to if?
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02:53:54pintreelinuxstb: thanks for the help but what exactly do u mean please at the command prompt i type in what uu wrote?
02:54:14JdGordonMikachu: wasnt that the whole point? not to check if something is defined, but to check its value?
02:54:19linuxstbpintree: Are you on Windows?
02:54:29MikachuJdGordon: yes, but your last commit was the exact opposite :)
02:54:38pintreeyes windows xp home sp2 −− sorry for not saying it
02:54:50JdGordonyeah, ill back that out and do it properly, if this is the proper way
02:54:50linuxstbJust try double-clicking on ipodpatcher.exe
02:54:57Mikachuie you changed #if xxx == yyy to #if defined(xxx) && xxx == yyy
02:56:02linuxstbJdGordon: #if !defined(CONFIG_TUNER) can be simply written as #ifndef CONFIG_TUNER
02:56:07pintreeok it's doing something
02:56:31JdGordonlinuxstb: hmm... i guess im not 100% awake yet :p
02:56:38pintreeok it said 'enter' to exit' will see what happens
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02:57:57linuxstbJdGordon: The approach seems logical to me - it means we need to use #if CONFIG_XXX to see if the hardware has that feature, and #ifdef HAVE_XXX for those defines.
02:58:22linuxstbAlthough I would probably just use 0 instead of CONFIG_UNDEFINED - makes it clearer IMO.
02:58:48linuxstbi.e. it's not obvious that #if CONFIG_TUNER is false for CONFIG_UNDEFINED
02:58:58JdGordonah, ok
02:59:05pintreeok still no go i'm getting 'press menu+ select' which i did and then the same message pops up
02:59:27linuxstbDoes the message say "rockbox.ipod" not found?
03:00:01pintreeyes it does
03:00:19pintreeand i do have it in the folder on my c; drive as said
03:00:22linuxstbThen you need to read section 2.2.2 of the manual and actually install Rockbox itself.
03:00:33linuxstbIt's no use on your C: drive...
03:01:03pintreei thought i had followed the instructions−−will check it again
03:01:08pintreethan ks back in a sec
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03:02:16pintreehi ok the command given was done, i did replace 'N' with the number as instructed
03:02:27linuxstbAny Mac users who want to try rbutil, here's the latest version -
03:02:36linuxstbpintree: Forget ipodpatcher now - you don't have to use it again.
03:02:56linuxstbThe instructions I gave you (double-clicking) are new, and replace the ipodpatcher steps in the manual.
03:03:15pintreeno i did not do it again what i meant is b4 the problem those3 commands were performedi
03:03:55pintreesorry i missed the instructions; what double clicking?
03:05:04linuxstbForget that... You now need to read section 2.2.2 of the manual and install Rockbox itself.
03:05:55*linuxstb sleeps
03:08:47pintreeok this is what i did b4 coming here: i downloaded a zip file, once extracte3d it created a folder called rockbox. I moved this folder to the C: drive-within this folder was another folder called'.rockbox' and a file called
03:08:54 Quit RogerBacon ("Quitte")
03:09:06Mikachujust follow the instructions
03:09:16pintreerockbox.ipod. after which i did what followed−−failed to see the step missed
03:09:37Mikachuyou're supposed to extract the zip file to your ipod, not your computers hard drive
03:10:21pintreeOH that makes sense−−but the manual does not say this does it?
03:10:33pintreeso i just simply drag and drop it, i would guess
03:10:46Mikachui'm pretty sure it does
03:12:32pintreelets c 2make sure: I copy the folder rockbox to the ipod−−this folder has within it the other folder and rockbox.ipod−−is this correct
03:13:22ShaidYou copy the contents of that folder to your ipod
03:13:31Shaidso that the .rockbox file is in the root of your ipod.
03:14:01Lloreanpintree: The manual actually says to extract the .zip straight to your player.
03:14:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:15:12w1ll14mohhh nice :)
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03:15:47pintreeyup it does say so−−missed it somehow−−gotta stop reading fast
03:15:53w1ll14mgot ata running on cop....
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03:16:20 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC")
03:16:49pintreeanyhow because of my stupid mistake I now can't seem to do anything-plugged the ipod back to PC and ipod has black screen on it windows does not see the drive
03:17:19pintreeshould i go back to itunes fix the whole thing and start again?
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03:20:31pintreelini, r u there
03:21:05pintreelinuxstb, thinking of goin to bed huh! anybody else around?
03:23:32 Part Llorean
03:25:34w1ll14mpintree: i'm alive :)
03:26:00pintreethanks will was just about to sign off and redo stuff
03:26:06pintreeok c problem aboe
03:26:40pintreei had not placed the downlaoded files to my ipod prior to installing hence my error
03:27:08 Join nickv111 [0] (
03:27:13pintreenow i plugged the ipod to the pc and windows doesn't see it−−so i'm thinking of rebooting my computer
03:27:20JdGordongah, wtf?
03:27:34Shaidreboot the ipod instead
03:27:36pintreeand then c if itunes recognizes the player [now it doesn't]
03:27:40JdGordonthe builds just dont like me
03:27:56nickv111Hey guys. Been a bit busy lately, but I did look at calculator.c
03:27:58w1ll14mJdGordon, that sucks
03:28:02nickv111I think that the code is a bit messy
03:28:54pintreei did reboot it and the same message pops up 'can't load rockbox.ipod file not found etc
03:29:12nickv111For example, many of the functions take no operators, and are void, but use pointers instead of return values
03:29:42Shaidreboot but keep holding the menu button down as you do
03:29:48Shaidit should reboot into the apple firmware
03:29:53Shaidand then you should be good to go
03:30:01nickv111Also, every number is a combination of a double and a power, so I defined a struct
03:30:04nickv111Still, the code is a bit of a mess
03:30:35nickv111Definitely difficult to navigate. . .
03:30:59 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
03:31:17nickv111What would you guys think about taking most of the pointers out of calculator.c and instead passing arguments and using return values?
03:31:54pintreelets c if i get this reboot stuff correct: i have the ipod video 60G−− press the middlke button quickly followed by the top (menu) button, right?
03:32:20Shaidpress and hold, yes.
03:32:22Shaidboth buttons
03:32:31Shaidand then once it powers down release the centre button.
03:32:43Shaidand keep holding the menu one
03:32:50Shaidand it should boot into the Apple firmware
03:33:30pintreeok got it−−did not know i had to still hold the top button and release the center one
03:33:43pintreeok will try copying the folder/file now
03:34:38pintreeOK did so−−should I now do the whole ting from the command propmpt again or...?
03:35:07pintreesomething else?
03:35:33Shaidjust copy the files on
03:35:47pintreefor ex. should i simply try to reboot the ipod?
03:36:05pintreethe folder files were copied
03:36:07Shaidcopy the files for rockbox on and then reboot it.
03:37:26pintreeok did so−−i saw briefly an image of a usb device and then now it says 'o not disconnect'
03:38:06Shaidthat means its connected in windows.
03:38:11pintreeit's charging but the ipod battery is more than half full
03:38:12Shaidyou should have access to it as a drive again
03:39:05pintreeyes i did have access to it as a drive−−i copied the folder and file into it−−i then rebooted the ipod and then got the USB image and now is recharging
03:39:54pintreeclicking on any one button does nothing
03:40:01Mikachuyou want to remove the usb cable to use rockbox
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03:40:06pintreeit keeps opn charging
03:40:11Mikachuor copy files to it first
03:40:44pintreeok got it
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03:41:02pintreethanks alot to ye all ;-)
03:41:23pintreeOne last Q if I may
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03:41:55pintreeI'm assuming there is somewhere something else i should be using instead of itunes on my PC is this correct?
03:41:55***Server message 505: 'logbot :Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( )'
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03:42:03pintreeif yes then what and where do i get it?
03:42:05Mikachuyou can just copy music over
03:42:29pintreeu mean continue using itunes?
03:42:37Mikachuno, but that also works
03:42:49perl|perli found some lost chains during chkdsk
03:43:00pintree'no'? then what?
03:43:01perl|perldoes it mean some files might be damaged?
03:43:18Mikachui don't know a simpler way to say copy music
03:43:50Mikachui suppose in windows you would drag the files?
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03:45:01perl|perli recovered 5 random files
03:45:06pintreeOK sorry copy what to what? r u saying that my ipod does not have the music files in it? for it seems that way since there is no music folder in rockbox i can see
03:46:01pintreeok just got another window
03:46:09combrainsyou can still access all of the music that itunes put on ur ipod - you just have to convert the ipod database into a rockbox database
03:46:12pintreesee what i can do there back in a sec
03:46:24combrainsthere is a section in the manual on how to do that i believe
03:46:49combrainsif no then have a look at the ipod port page on the wiki - im pretty sure that there is somthing there
03:47:17pintreehi anyway of getting the fonts bigger or something i can barelly read the thing
03:47:33combrainsany new music you can just drag and drop if you dont wanna use itunes
03:47:40combrainschange the theme
03:47:51combrainsthe defult is rather tiny, yes
03:48:01combrainsmenu>brows themes
03:48:19combrainsyou can download more from the wiki
03:49:13 Quit zylche ("-")
03:49:31pintreeam trying to see how i can change the theme now
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03:49:52combrainsmenu>brows themes
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03:50:22pintreeis it under 'general settings'?
03:50:51combrainsif not in the main menu then probably
03:51:15combrainsalthough i believe it is in the main menu - it is on my gigabeat
03:51:50pintreeno themes
03:52:17combrainseh? there should be at least 3 that come with rb
03:53:03pintreethis is what i c: 'rockbox main menu, recent bookmarks, sound settings, general settings, manage settings,
03:53:06pintreeoops found it
03:53:13combrainsthere ya go
03:54:02pintreewell actually no theme is any different from another except for the color
03:54:55pintreethey are 'boxes' 'eyecatcher' rockbox_default, and 'unicatcher
03:55:39combrainswell then go to the rockbox wiki on the rockbox site and download some more themes
03:56:13combrainsmany look much better than the defult - I was using unicatcher untill I got some more
03:57:34pintreeunicatcher seems exactly trhe same as the defulkt−− B & W and very small
03:57:40pintreehow did it look to you?
03:57:46 Join fasmaie [0] (
03:58:45pintreeBTW the damned ipod always fades out within seconds−−it's driving me nuts−−where can i cahnge this?
03:59:05fasmaieThere's a setting in LCD settingas
03:59:27fasmaieUnder general settings .....for backlight time
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04:01:38pintreelooking there now−−also found a font place but seems not to work−−perhaps i need to download fonts somewhere
04:01:58SoapThe downloading of the fonts was also in the install instructions you glanced over.
04:02:06pintreethe problem is that it is so small i am having a hard timne reading
04:03:37pintreegot the fade thing
04:03:44pintreenow back to themes
04:03:58pintreewill see about the extra themes and fonts as u guys said
04:04:16*Soap suggests pintree read the manual. It is excellent.
04:05:15pintreebtw do u guys love your ipod? as to reading the manual−−ur absolutely right- it is a must but got here because of my 1st problem then one thing led to the next and to the next etc.
04:05:31pintreesorry guys, truly sorry go ahead and zap me
04:05:40pintreewill read manual now
04:05:58pintreehope u don't mind if I hang around here for a while as i do so
04:06:24pintreeBTW, if any of you are asian Happy Chnese New Year
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04:17:21pintreere: themes a quick Q, do all themse display album art within the ipod? it's hard to tell from the info on the wensite
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04:18:10SoapAlbumArt is not an officially supported rockbox feature at this time.
04:18:38SoapAny "theme" (WPS) (while playing screen) you see with album art will not work on your build.
04:18:44pintreeso album art, regardless of theme will not be displayed−−am i understainding this righ?
04:20:15pintreeOk so as I am going FF from file to file I will see it but once a file is playing the art will disappear, is this correct?
04:21:08pintreeok then no art whatsoever ever yes
04:21:22SoapIf you use a WPS which supports album art, in most all instances the WPS will not work properly, you will never see album art.
04:22:26pintreeshoot−−as i use my ipod mor often then not as i am driving, album art is the only way i could see what there
04:22:29Soap(in some instances, very few, the WPS creator has made the art displaying code a conditional statement so that a generic "no album art" present image is displayed)
04:23:02Soap((the more I think about it (I am no WPS master) I think that conditional will still fail on your Rockbox, being as it has no album art support))
04:23:12perl|perlspkey.c:390:5: warning: "TRUEKOMPAT" is not defined
04:23:12perl|perlspkey.c:647:5: warning: "TRUEKOMPAT" is not defined
04:23:16perl|perlwhat is that?
04:23:34 Quit datachild ("let us take all from the one and the other")
04:23:46pintreeto think of all the hgours I put in for finding, downlaoding and implementing my art
04:24:04Soappintree: there are WPSs with very large, high contrast, fonts for usage in vehicles, though IMHO iPodding while driving is a recipe for an accident.
04:24:20pintreeok, time to be frank here−−the reason why i got rockbox is because: i have steve jobs more then people hate bill gates
04:24:21JdGordonperl|perl: dw about it
04:24:32Soappintree: so
04:24:37pintreebut mainly because i wanted to play ogg, flac etc.
04:24:45pintreeno other reason
04:25:25perl|perli have a random question about chkdsk
04:25:33perl|perlafter the check, when it finds some lost chains
04:25:34pintreeso since ipod's defualt OS would not playt those file formats I looked for one that did
04:25:39perl|perldoes it mean the original files they originated from are damaged?
04:25:39pintreerockbox is all i found
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04:26:36pintreei like things simple and rockbox is configurable so once i read the manul properly i hope to simplify it
04:27:49pintreeor, and maybe this will create enemies ;-( is there aplugin to play flac, ogg etc on the ipod os somewhere?
04:28:28pintreeas far as 2 weeks ago i don't remember finding any−−that's how o got to rockbox
04:28:53pintreethought so
04:29:16SoapRockbox and IpodLinux are the only two replacements for the iPod firmware.
04:29:44SoapiPodWizard is nothing more than a resource editor which swaps out graphics inside the iPod stock binary.
04:32:21pintreeat the website WPS gallery I see 'iPod 5G (video)' gallery but nothing else I'm wondering is this for mine−−ipod video 60G?
04:32:41pintreeobviously 5G is not 60
04:32:58w1ll14mpintree: 5g has a 60GB version, mine is
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04:33:11w1ll14mand if it's a 5g it's a video
04:33:23pintreeok got it−−just wanted to make sure thnx
04:34:30w1ll14m5.5g ipods have 30GB or 80GB and 5g ipods have 30GB or 60GB
04:35:26pintreewhy not simply call them what they are/ −−a retorical question, no answer needed
04:35:42w1ll14mabout optimizing rockbox, wouldn't it be usefull to let audio thread run on cop, as audio and ata thread are (both used at the same time and are) heavy for cpu usage
04:35:43Soapthey are though
04:36:01Soap^ pintree
04:36:19w1ll14mthat would speedup filling the buffer
04:36:40w1ll14matleast it's what i think ...
04:38:51w1ll14msoap, do you know why it happens that pcm buffer and codec buffer are both 0/0 (in debug menu) when moving audio to cop ?
04:39:14w1ll14mdamn ....
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05:03:03pintreeGOTTA GO THANX TO ALL
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05:15:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:36:52JdGordonanyone know how to get the diff of a commit ? not just the diffs of each changed file?
05:37:36 Quit Galois (Remote closed the connection)
05:37:50w1ll14mSoap: do you think it's possible to add a ata2 stack to COP and let audio thread get the data from ata2 instead of ata ?
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05:40:12w1ll14mehhh s/stack/thread/
05:40:31JdGordonw1ll14m: that doesnt sound like a good idea
05:40:42JdGordonall ata stuff should eb handled in the 1 thread
05:41:20w1ll14mJdGordon: true, but on CPU you have audio and ata thread, those both use a lot of cpu power
05:41:38w1ll14mmaybe you can use some power from COP with a ata2 thread
05:42:21JdGordonno, because the ata depends on the disk more than the cpu (i assume anyway)
05:42:43JdGordonif you put the ata thread entirely on the cop, there might be a performance increase...
05:42:57JdGordoni doubt ata would slow down the cpu tho
05:43:01w1ll14mJdGordon: that means almost a total rewrite
05:43:53w1ll14mwhat i mean is: when audio thread is used (when playing) then filling the buffer takes up to 2 or 3 times as it would when paused
05:43:58w1ll14mplayback paused*
05:44:32w1ll14mand if you change ata to COP it's faster, but a lot of data aborts
05:44:41JdGordonthe thing is.. you have to be careful about which thread tries to use the disk... and make sure they never try at the same time
05:44:48JdGordonas well as keeping buffers seperate
05:45:05JdGordonata has a mutex which might be enough... i dunno
05:45:06w1ll14msounds logical
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05:46:06w1ll14mi thought if you would add a ata2 and let diskcache and buffers get their data from ata2 and the system would still use ata (when saving config or when booting)
05:46:28w1ll14mthath would give the audio thread more power and buffers will fillup faster
05:46:36w1ll14matleast that is what i think ....
05:46:52w1ll14mas of now i have a ata2 thread on cop running, but it's not used yet
05:47:18w1ll14matleats i would like to try, but i don't know how to let the buffers read ata2 instead of just ata
05:49:15JdGordoncant you just move the whole thread onto the cop by changing the create_thread call?
05:49:46w1ll14mJdGordon: that can, but it makes rockbox a lot more unstable more data aborts and sudden reboots
05:50:28w1ll14mofcourse i've tried that ;)
05:50:40JdGordonprobably because of the ata_idle_nopfity stuff
05:51:17w1ll14mcan you explain why the ata_idle_notify has to do with those datababorts ?
05:51:46JdGordonbecause it runs functions expecting to be called on the main cpu i guess?
05:52:02JdGordonim not entirley sure how the multi-cpu stuff works
05:52:14w1ll14myeah that was my guess to .... but the whole problem is, how can you change those calls ?
05:52:36w1ll14mi've moved audio thread to, but i think it had a problem accessing iram
05:52:57w1ll14mso pcm and codec buffers 0/0 bytees :|
05:53:09w1ll14mehh /s/bytees/bytes/
05:53:30w1ll14mso i've moved audio back to main core
05:54:24w1ll14mwhat is the easyest way to get some data from ata2 just to test ?
05:54:40w1ll14mhmm damn :)
05:59:12*JdGordon sees if he can et the build table green before sweden wakes up :p
06:01:37Soap$1 says you can. ;)
06:03:12Mouser_XThat's pretty colorful though.
06:03:28Mouser_XYou gotta admit that much.
06:04:52JdGordonits very yellow....
06:05:40daurnimatorHe who laughs last, thinks slowest.
06:06:17JdGordon... or reads/types slowest
06:06:24daurnimatorThe shin bone is a device for finding furniture in a dark room.
06:07:19daurnimatorWhen you go into court, you are putting yourself into the hands of 12 people who weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty.
06:08:12 Join YouCeyE [0] (n=YouCeyE@unaffiliated/youceye)
06:09:08 Join pintree [0] (
06:11:15pintreecan't find browser to play music on my main menu is−−>calendar, contacts, notes & rockbox if i go trockbox i get the same menu again if i
06:12:35pintreeclick on menu i get −−> recent bookmarks, soun settings, general settings, manage settings, browse themes, recording, playlist opitions (BTW i hav no playlists), browse plugins andinfo
06:12:36JdGordontry again in english?
06:13:19 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
06:13:28 Join Mouser_X [0] (
06:13:35pintreethe faq as ther manual show what io don't seem to have therefor i am assuming i overlooked or do not see something
06:14:01dewdudewhat unit?
06:14:13pintreein english? put simply how do i browse and polay my files since i can't seem to see it
06:14:23pintreesorry for the bad typing
06:14:25 Join Parker [0] (
06:14:55dewdudepintree, what kind of player do you have?
06:15:56pintreesorry i have ipod video 60g
06:16:12pintreeand since the fonts r so small i am also having a hard time reading stuff
06:16:27dewdudewell, when you boot rockbox..that is the file explorer.
06:16:52pintreeam currently in a place called'database' and am initializing−−-hoping this is what is needed
06:17:06dewdudethat will help for itunes loaded music
06:17:35dewdudesee, rockbox usually loads music through the file explorer, which is the first screen after the logo
06:17:46pintreepls explain what you mean by ' itunes loaded music'? as opposed to what loaded music?
06:17:51Parkerwhat is rockbox
06:17:59dewdudewell, with rockbox, you don't have to use itunes
06:18:08dewdudeyou use your ipod as a USB hard disk and copy directly to the drive
06:18:17 Join xNibbler [0] (
06:18:21 Quit Nibbier (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:18:29Parkeris it like putting a new os on your mp3 player
06:18:31Parkeror something
06:18:40pintreeOk misssed that important detail u see what
06:19:10dewdudepintree, yes. so, you couldn't see your itunes loaded music because of the way rockbox works
06:19:15pintreei had/have is all my files alrady in my ipod as i installed rockbock sinc itunes was being used before so
06:19:33Parkerok, thats what i was thinking
06:19:34pintreei am assumng what i am doing now is loading the stuff from itunes−−is this right?
06:19:35dewdudeyes, all your music is in the ipod control folder. database mode will load the tags.
06:19:35Parkerit was
06:19:49Parkeris there any kind of rockbox for the gigabeat v
06:19:50dewdudeit's scanning for mp3 files and reading the tag information
06:19:53Parkeri have one
06:19:57dewdudeParker, look on the website.
06:20:11Parkeri looked, they don't say they have any
06:20:17dewdudewell, it's scanning for all media files it can play
06:20:26dewdudeParker, then i would assume that means they don't have it yet.
06:21:27dewdudepintree, if you've converted from itunes, then, database mode would be your best bet. but, rockbox normally accesses music off the ipod hard drive.
06:21:46dewdudewhich also means the original firmware can't see anything you load for rockbox.
06:22:35pintreeam looking for database mod enow
06:23:22pintreecan't find it−−where is 'database'?
06:23:41dewdudethat i can't tell you, as i've never used it
06:24:16pintreeok where is ipod hard drive
06:24:35pintreedo not say it's inside my ipod ;-)
06:24:45dewdudewell, that's where it is
06:25:07pintreewhat i mean is how do i play music? i can't find my music filesi
06:25:23pintreethe folder where it's suposed to be in or whathave you
06:25:53dewduderead that for database information
06:25:57dewdudehow to use it, how it works
06:26:05pintreeam going there now
06:26:28pintreedoesn't the word simplify come into play in the rockbox vocabulary?
06:26:44pintreedidn't know you had to take a course to play this thing
06:27:11pintreei guess it's more for wonderful geeks like yourselves then idiots like me
06:28:27Parkerdoes firmware replace the software on your mp3 player
06:28:48Parkeror merely add to it
06:28:51Parkeri can't tell
06:30:27pintreeipod is doing something−−will wait to see what happens−−i gather it'll take more than 10minutes since I have about 25Gigs of music inside it
06:32:05w1ll14mpintree: ist should go rpetty fast ;)
06:32:19*JdGordon hopes he doesnt get shot when sweden does wake up :p
06:32:27w1ll14mpretty... damn ... i gotta sleep....
06:32:38pintreeok the database website page says 10 minutes or so hence my assumption
06:32:45w1ll14mit now 6:30 am :|
06:32:57pintreeanyhow I still feel it dong something 'in the background'
06:33:15w1ll14mwell i'm going to bed .... i can't even type normal anymore.... so 'll see you guys later ;)
06:33:52pintreegood nite buddy thanks −−it's 1:40 in the afternoon here where i am −−taiwan
06:34:08Mouser_XParker: Rockbox is used in place of the original firmware of your player. However, it doesn't (technically) replace it. Usually, you can boot into Rockbox, or the original firmware.
06:34:22w1ll14mwell ll just smoke one more sigarret... and then i'm gonna sleep for real....
06:34:37pintreealright i'll lite up as well
06:34:45Parkeri wasn't sure if it just added on to the firmware already there
06:34:51w1ll14mpintree: hehehe
06:35:01Mouser_XParker: Rockbox runs on the Gigabeat F and X. The S, and anyother Gigabeats aren't supported at this time.
06:35:04pintreecigs are cheap here 1 us dollar
06:35:08*w1ll14m lights up his last siggaret for this night
06:35:19Parkeryeah, thats i was saw
06:35:19Mouser_X*any other
06:35:31*Mouser_X has the Gigabeat F.
06:35:36Parkerall i want really is a text reader
06:35:39Mouser_XI've never used the original Firmware...
06:35:42w1ll14mpintree: they are expensive here :| about 5 or 6 dollars (i live in holland so we have euro's)
06:35:56*Mouser_X doesn't smoke.
06:35:57Parkerive been converting pdf's to jpg's but its kind of hard to read sometimes
06:36:01Mouser_X(Unless I'm on fire.)
06:36:24Parkeryeah, i like the v's firmware though
06:36:25*w1ll14m is proud on Mouser_X :)
06:37:08w1ll14mJdGordon: why are you scared to get shot from sweden ?
06:37:27JdGordonif Bagder doesnt like the way im getting rid of the warnings...
06:37:45Mouser_XParker: So, you have the Gigabeat V? How is that? I think I saw a picture of it... Also, my Gigabeat with Rockbox is *great*! I can't imagine what using the original firmware would be like.
06:37:50w1ll14mJdGordon: now i understand how you feel :)
06:37:58 Quit dpassen1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:38:34*w1ll14m agrees with Mouser_X, w1ll14m forgot how the OF works on ipod 5g
06:38:51w1ll14mi ca't live a day withput it....
06:38:57pintreeok going nuts−−website info says to go2 general settings−−Files view i do so
06:39:01Mouser_XBasically same here.
06:39:22Mouser_XWhen my battery dies, it's quite disappointing.
06:39:30Mouser_XThough, that's only happened 2 or 3 times.
06:39:47Mouser_X(I usually get 15+ hours of play out of it.)
06:39:49w1ll14mpintree: go to general settings −−> file view −−> show files
06:39:57pintreethen i see 'sor case sensitive, sort directories etc and then in the 'show files' windowt
06:40:16ParkerMouser_X: its really nice, i like it a lot. most people seem to be put off with its ability to only play wmv files, but i found a free video converter before i bought it and haven't had any trouble. the sound is great, the battery is excellent, and its a pretty awesome overall
06:40:20pintreei have 'all' which takes me back to the previous window
06:40:25Parkeri found it on for 150
06:40:30w1ll14mset it to Supported if you wan't to use normal file browser, or set it to database if you want to use music allready stored by itunes
06:41:03 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
06:41:12 Join Mouser_X [0] (
06:41:34w1ll14mdamn my thumb is still rotten as hell....
06:41:34pintreeyes did go to database and i have load to ram autoupdate etc which is all the steps i had done before
06:41:45w1ll14mthen go to main menu
06:41:48w1ll14mand press menu again
06:42:03pintreemain menu yes and then
06:42:09pintreegeneral settings again?
06:42:19w1ll14mpress menu button again, what do you get ?
06:42:49Parkerdoes the firmware from an mp3 player determine what file types it read, or the hardware?
06:42:58JdGordonalmost back to green :)
06:43:06w1ll14mParker: Firmware
06:43:17 Join justjohnny68 [0] (
06:43:17pintreei get ' .rockbox' calmedars., contacts, ipod coontgrol , notes and rockbox.ipod
06:43:34w1ll14mok, then it's still switched to file view
06:43:44w1ll14mpintree: do you want to use the music itunes allready stored ?
06:44:11w1ll14mor do you want to add new music (using your harddisk as a regular removable harddisk)
06:44:19pintreeif by that you mean the music in my ipod with all my btags then yes or what other choice?
06:44:19w1ll14mwithout itunes*
06:44:36w1ll14mthen you just browse with directories and filenames
06:44:54w1ll14mthat is what you have selected right now
06:45:00pintreeok, will i still be able toplay 'all'?
06:45:15pintreeor mst i p[lay one album at a time?
06:45:31w1ll14myou can set rockbox to auto jump to next folder
06:45:42w1ll14mwhich could be a different album ;)
06:46:02pintreeok fine let's do it the rockbox way−−which is what it was designed to do
06:46:09pintreenow how do i play music?
06:46:18w1ll14mok, then you have to connect to a computer (shut down itunes)
06:46:32pintreeitunes is not on
06:46:54pintreeby connecting to my computer i ahve a Q to ask−−what haooens to the music already in the ipod?
06:46:55w1ll14mremove all directory's from ipod drive(You must leave .rockbox and rockbox.ipod on the drive)
06:47:12w1ll14mthen your ipod is clean
06:47:32pintreeOK that would mean delete all my music correct? which also means all my album art corect?
06:47:41w1ll14mnow you can drag and drop music to your ipod
06:47:50pintreeif so then no I don't want to do that
06:47:56w1ll14mthat removes totaly everything from the ipod
06:48:02w1ll14mok, you can leave those
06:48:10pintreeback to the drawing board−−too much work done for album art
06:48:13w1ll14mthen you could just copy new music to your ipod
06:48:27w1ll14mpintree: lol :)
06:48:33 Quit rotator ()
06:48:55pintreewhat do u mean ccopy? isn't it already there?
06:49:24w1ll14mcorrect... but it's only availible from database if you want to use music that was stored by itunes
06:49:39pintreeBTW it's nice to c ur laughing, makes me feel better since I ont the other hand want to throw my ipod out the window
06:49:46pintreenever liked the damned thing
06:49:55w1ll14mhehhe :) how come ?
06:50:59pintreewell 'cause i'm old i guess−−i like things to be like on a discman a real button to ff rewind play etc
06:51:24pintreethis thing instead brings me to a shitload of menus i couldn't care about
06:51:48w1ll14myou have 2 choices, use the music allready stored on ipod by itunes using database, or use file mode (which cannot use itunes music because itunes renames music to xxxx.mp3) and add new songs to ipod
06:51:49pintreeall i want is play/listen to music and se what i am playing (preferably w/ art)
06:51:58JdGordonawesome :) I have done every commit on the front page :D
06:52:01*JdGordon rules :D
06:52:24pintreesince i think most mp3 downloaded sound like crap i prefer ogg flac etc
06:52:55w1ll14mpintree: rockbox can play those ;)
06:53:10w1ll14mnot shure if of does that too ....
06:53:39pintreeyes it can YEAHHH that's why i'm here i just wish u didn't need a PHD in 'rockbox tech' to operate the damned thing (sorry for my lingo) ;-)
06:53:55w1ll14mPHD ?
06:54:03w1ll14mnever heard of that word ;)
06:54:27pintreeyes i am exqagerating one does not need a PHD (a univeristy doctorate degree)
06:54:43w1ll14mpintree: ok ;)
06:55:03pintreeu know 2st is aBachelor's degree (BA) then a MAsters (MA) then a PHD
06:55:28w1ll14msorry, never heard of it ;)
06:55:38w1ll14mbut what would you want to use ? database (can play itunes stored songs) or add new songs to ipod ?
06:55:41dewdudehey...its w1ll14m
06:55:45pintreeso back to my 2nd cigarette (oops i just reminded u to go to bed) how do i play music?
06:55:49w1ll14mhi dewdude :)
06:56:02dewdudedude, i tried to talk to you the other day
06:56:07 Join decayedcell [0] (
06:56:19w1ll14myeah, had a nother nickname.... but that one wasn't registered.....
06:56:28w1ll14mbecause i was disconnected..... :|
06:56:40pintreeyes i wanna play itunes stored songs and hopefully 2 day i'll be able to see the art as well
06:56:41dewdudeyou made any mods to your cpu patch?
06:56:57w1ll14mwell yeah i have a v5 :)
06:57:04pintreeoopd did not mean '2day' but rathe r'one day'
06:57:10dewdudei found v5
06:57:15dewdudethat the latest
06:57:17w1ll14mdewdude:still in sync of cop10 and svn
06:57:24*dewdude blinks
06:57:32dewdudewhen'd that happen?
06:57:40 Part justjohnny68
06:57:42decayedcellw1ll14m wats changed in v5
06:57:44w1ll14mpintree: if you want to use album art you will need a patched version of rockbox
06:57:58pintreeOK great thought i wasn't able to do so
06:58:00w1ll14mdecayedcell: needed a resync
06:58:15pintree1st things 1st how do i play music
06:58:20 Quit Parker ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
06:58:45decayedcelllooks like JDGordon has been busy... start of USB OTG support?
06:59:02w1ll14mpintree: go to generel settings −−> file view −−> show files −−> scroll to database and press select
06:59:06JdGordonno, getting rid of warnings
07:00:02pintreewait may have seen someting
07:00:40w1ll14mwhat was it that you saw ??? ;)
07:00:51pintreeok figured out how to play except−−n ur gonna hate me for this−−the list showing is a bunch of numbers
07:01:05pintreeand not the actual album/artist song name
07:01:21w1ll14mok, then you are still in filebrowser mode....
07:01:33pintreeonce playing i see the corect info but not b4, which would be helpful so i know what i wanna choose
07:01:38w1ll14mthat is what itunes does rename the songs to xxxx.mp3
07:01:42decayedcellso w1ll14m your patch just sets the CPU at different frequencies for different tasks?
07:02:25pintreei know I am seeing what itunes names it−−does this mean i need aplugin opr something so i could c the actual files
07:02:25w1ll14mdecayedcell: it changed the normal freq and boost freq. normal:60MHz boost:90MHz (should work for all PP50xx targets)
07:02:40w1ll14mpintree: no you need to change to database mode
07:02:51pintreeok will c how to get there
07:02:55w1ll14mgo to generel settings −−> file view −−> show files −−> scroll to database and press select
07:03:06w1ll14mthen it should be switched to database
07:03:16decayedcellpintree you need to let Rockbox scan for the tags on your mp3s first, hence I like my idea of Rockbox asking :D
07:03:27w1ll14mdecayedcell: allready active ;)
07:03:30pintreedo i go to general settings?
07:03:38w1ll14myeah general settings
07:03:49w1ll14mthen go to File View
07:03:57w1ll14mthen go to Show Files
07:04:06w1ll14mthere you see database
07:04:22w1ll14mscroll down till the database option is selected
07:04:34w1ll14mthen you press the select button (aka ok button)
07:04:40 Join bzavala [0] (i=47f4167c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
07:05:02w1ll14mdewdude: how's your ipod running, is it still stable ?
07:05:27dewdudeas much as it ever has been
07:05:35w1ll14mdewdude: nice :)
07:06:13pintreeselected databased and pressed select
07:06:15*w1ll14m lights now realy his last sigaret for today
07:06:20pintreenothing happened
07:06:20w1ll14mpintree: ok
07:06:37pintreetried again and nothing tried a 3d time and finally got another window
07:06:37w1ll14mso if you open show files again, where is the bar ?
07:07:03w1ll14mpintree: what do you see ?
07:07:15bzavalahello everyone... im kinda new here...
07:07:27w1ll14mdewdude: i've said 30 mins ago i would go to sleep ;) as it's here 7:05 am :)
07:07:43pintreethere is no 'show files view' what i have is 'load to ram' autoupdate, intialize now, update now, gather runtime data, export mod... and import mod..
07:08:06w1ll14myou selected database in the previous screen ... just go one menu back >?
07:08:11w1ll14mwhat do you have there ?
07:08:20decayedcellpintree Load to RAM: Ye
07:08:20pintree7:05 AM time to get up and make yourself a coffe ;-)
07:08:20bzavalajust created an account on wiki.... I have a couple of Themes for a 5G ipod I'd like to upload to the wiki
07:08:46 Quit atsea-196 (Remote closed the connection)
07:09:00pintreeok lets do this from the top
07:09:04decayedcellpintree Auto Update: Yes, Initialise Now: Yes. Then wait 5-10 minutes (depending on how much music you have) then turn off your iPod
07:09:08w1ll14mdecayedcell: that is allready set correctly ;) only fileview has to be changed to database
07:09:13pintree1st general settings yes
07:09:27w1ll14mgo to file view
07:09:36 Join atsea-196 [0] (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-cc7f438883bdc96e)
07:09:42w1ll14mwhat do you see there ?
07:09:47pintreefile view done
07:10:06pintreethen database yes
07:10:12w1ll14mnot database
07:10:23w1ll14myou have there show files
07:10:39pintreeyess hav show files
07:10:46w1ll14mok go to show files
07:10:58w1ll14mwhat do you see there ?
07:11:15w1ll14mif i'm correct there's Supported selected
07:11:30pintreei c 'alphabetical' by date, by newset date and 'by type'
07:11:43w1ll14myou are in sort files
07:11:51w1ll14mgo 1 menu back
07:12:07w1ll14mand choose show files
07:12:08pintreetoo sensitive
07:12:21w1ll14mgot it ?
07:12:35pintreeok have 'all' supported, music' playlists' and database
07:12:43w1ll14mchoose database
07:12:51w1ll14mand press select (aka ok)
07:13:03pintreeno don't want to ;-) hha ha OK done playlist chosen
07:13:12 Join MonkeyTamer [0] (
07:13:24w1ll14mnow go back to browser
07:13:32w1ll14mand check if you have database view :)
07:13:36Mouser_XDid you select playlist, or database?
07:13:42Mouser_X<pintree> no don't want to ;-) hha ha OK done playlist chosen
07:13:49Mouser_X(I see playlist)
07:14:04w1ll14mdid i missed something ?
07:14:25MonkeyTamerwow... the build table is getting back to normal! awesome job JdGordon
07:14:38pintreewithin database i c no 'browser'
07:14:47w1ll14mpintree: did you choose playlist or database ?
07:15:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:15:10w1ll14mthen go back to the begin
07:15:25w1ll14mgo back to general
07:15:26pintreebegin is general settings
07:15:32w1ll14mand press menu once again
07:15:38Mouser_XDoes he need to restart his iPod?
07:15:38 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
07:15:38w1ll14mwhat do yous ee now ?
07:15:40MonkeyTamerI don't think I've ever seen so many commits in one day
07:16:00w1ll14mJdGordon flooded the update portal ;)
07:16:03decayedcellMonkeyTamer, neither
07:16:09pintreei'm in rockbox main menu
07:16:19w1ll14mpintree: ok, press menu once again ;)
07:16:42pintreeif i plress menu again it goes to the song being played
07:16:50w1ll14mok then press select
07:17:14pintreeok got a window that says 'data abort'
07:17:23MonkeyTamergotta love those
07:17:33decayedcellpintree what number is it? What's the lucky number?
07:17:46w1ll14mthat was very unexpected.....
07:17:54*MonkeyTamer gets ready to write them down for the a future lottery ticket...
07:18:06decayedcellw1ll14m is that cop10 + w1ll14m patch
07:18:16pintreeu mea the code" it says data abort at 0003E868
07:18:22w1ll14mdecayedcell: no as far as i know
07:18:22Mouser_Xw1ll14m: What happens if you don't have a database initialized?
07:18:41Mouser_X(I've never used the DB, and it's unlikely I ever will.)
07:18:41w1ll14mMouser_X it should tell you that database isn't ready
07:19:00w1ll14matleast no dataabort ;)
07:19:04Mouser_XThat sounds like a good idea (crashing isn't).
07:19:07MonkeyTamerwhat's wrong with the DB?
07:19:28w1ll14mpintree: did you rebooted your device ?
07:19:40w1ll14mand wrote the number of the data abort ?
07:19:43Mouser_XMonkeyTamer: Nothing is wrong with it. I just don't need it.
07:19:44pintreenot sure will do so now
07:20:14w1ll14mMouser_X: it reminds me using itunes, and that just sux
07:20:16MonkeyTamerI use DB because it cuts down on the backlight
07:20:23pintreerebotting and went straight to song being played−− a setting done previously
07:20:33w1ll14mpress select again
07:20:42w1ll14mwhat happens now ?
07:20:48pintreeok got list
07:20:50decayedcelldataabort lol...
07:20:51pintreehld on
07:20:52Mouser_Xw1ll14m: Never used iTunes, though you do have a point.
07:21:07Mouser_Xdecayedcell: heh.
07:21:13decayedcellMouser_X you don't need to use iTunes to use the database, it just grabs the tags and buidls one
07:21:16MonkeyTameralthough it really wouldn't make that much of a difference if I used the filetree; it's all organized the same way that I use the DB; by artist that is
07:21:22pintreeyeahhhhhhhhhhhh ;-) ;-) :-) :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
07:21:30w1ll14mMouser_X: the reason i bought my ipod was bacause there was linux for it, i allready had an mp3 player
07:21:41w1ll14mpintree: i guess it works ... ;)
07:22:01w1ll14mthen i lost my mp3 player.... and used OF for 3 months.... then i found rockbox ;)
07:22:08pintreei guess now i hav to figure out how to remeber all thisa luv yas lots ;-) hugs and all
07:22:19MonkeyTamerit's painful using the OF these days
07:22:26w1ll14mpintree :) nice.... then it's bed time ;)
07:22:27pintreeOK now back to the pacth which u said shows the album art
07:22:31pintree where is it pls
07:22:33MonkeyTamerno crossfade is a huge minus
07:22:39Mouser_XMonkeyTamer: I don't use the DB because I've been (attempting) to keep my Gigabeat organized. I have it organized by album (organizing by artist isn't so good, when dealing with video game soundtracks, IMO).
07:22:54MonkeyTamerthat's valid
07:22:57*w1ll14m sometimes haves nightmares about OF taking over my device....
07:23:20*w1ll14m but then he reminds his self that it sin't possible and in his dream he was listening to rockbox again ;)
07:23:29Mouser_Xpintree: You'll need to compile your own copy of Rockbox, to apply patches.
07:23:32w1ll14mehh s/sin't/isn't/
07:23:33MonkeyTamereveryone has their own system, as long as you recognize which albums are according to which artist :P
07:23:47Mouser_XIn other words, you might need to find another method of getting a patched copy.
07:24:00pintreeOK guess i gotta do some learning first but it's good to know it exists
07:24:08pintreeoh apacthed copy? cool
07:24:13w1ll14mpintree: indeed, that's a little more complicated
07:24:17Mouser_Xpintree: Check the forums.
07:24:27decayedcellpintree indeed. You need to make a bmp file blah blah etc etc
07:24:32Mouser_XSome people post patched copies of Rockbox on the forums.
07:24:34decayedcellit doesn't read straight from the mp3
07:24:38pintreegot it will do for sure
07:24:56Mouser_Xdecayedcell pintree: This is true.
07:24:57w1ll14mpintree: have fun with your new brockboxed device ;)
07:25:00pintreealright dude seriously tme to go to bed
07:25:04pintreego go go
07:25:11w1ll14mhehehe nn all :)
07:25:13pintree10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
07:25:18 Nick w1ll14m is now known as w1ll14m_ (
07:25:34Mouser_Xpintree: Rockbox will last roughly half as long as the default firmware (on the iPod, that is). Just letting you know.
07:25:40Mouser_XUsually better, but not a whole lot better.
07:25:46Mouser_XAt least, this is what I've heard.
07:25:57Mouser_X(This is for how long it can go on one charge.)
07:26:08decayedcellMouser_X its improved with the cop patch, by a couple hours on my ipod
07:26:17Mouser_XOh, that's good!
07:26:19pintreewait a munte−−one says 'half as long' and the other says 'usually better' what gives?
07:26:22decayedcellcouple hours over half that is :D
07:26:37Mouser_Xpintree: It depends on how you use it.
07:27:06Mouser_XRoughly 50% is about how long you can expect, but you might get slightly better.
07:27:06MonkeyTamerwell, it depends on the ipod
07:27:06pintreehow I use it? I use it to make coffe, do my reports and.... what do u mean how i use it−−to play music
07:27:13MonkeyTameripod video does much better than the 4g
07:27:26Mouser_Xpintree: Different formats take more power to play.
07:27:43pintreeOK so rockbox consumes more battery power is the conclusion here and lots of it
07:27:43MonkeyTameryes, depending on bitrate, size, etc.
07:27:44Mouser_XMP3 takes less battery than OGG or FLAC, for example.
07:27:54decayedcellpintree i.e. FLAC is super power hungry because it reads from the disk a lot
07:27:58Mouser_XADX takes less battery than MP3, from what I've seen.
07:28:18pintreethis sucks for I believed the ipod pre-rockbox consumed to much battery power as ti was (hence another reason for me hating it)
07:28:34Mouser_X(ADX isn't a common format. I wouldn't expect you to be familiar with it, or use it much, if at all.)
07:28:47decayedcellpintree the ipod port is still under development, over time Rockbox should be able to squeeze more hours out of it
07:29:02MonkeyTamerwell, the advantage to FLAC however is that it uses much less cpu; so when those ssd's come out, flac will be a viable option
07:29:34Mouser_XADX uses a lot less CPU, which is why it's better than MP3 (in regards to battery life).
07:29:40pintreeOK got it, well since i figured ipod OS was to power consuming as was, and now rock box is worst it seems I have done all this for nothing
07:29:44decayedcellthe problem is, is that Rockbox needs to run the CPU at higher frequencies compared to the OF to do the same task, i.e. OF runs 33Mhz to play music, whilst Rockbox needs 75Mhz
07:29:46Mouser_XThough, it's a much larger format, so it reads from the disc more often.
07:29:46MonkeyTamermp3 is terrible in cpu usage
07:30:05pintreemust uninstall rockbox and revert back to ipod itunes
07:30:12decayedcellhow about the AAC decoder is that more efficient than mp3
07:30:21Mouser_XNo idea.
07:30:25decayedcellpintree your ipod is dual bootable you know
07:30:33pintreethe power consumtption drainage level b4 drove me nuts so this will make me commit suicide
07:30:36MonkeyTamerunfortunately, but flash memory has no moving parts, so I would imagine that an ssd would have a decreased drawback with flac
07:31:10decayedcellnot all ipods are flash based, i.e. the larger 20GB+ models
07:31:26MonkeyTamerno, I mean solid state drives
07:31:31 Join neutralrobotboy [0] (
07:31:39MonkeyTamerthere are IDE 1.8" ssd's coming out
07:31:52neutralrobotboyhey, is there a known bug with tbattery recharging in rockbox on the h320?
07:32:08MonkeyTamersupposed to be around spring... but who knows
07:32:20pintreei guess i cuod try dual booting−−but i hav a funny feeling i'l jst revert back to it−−actually selling the bloody ipod may be a good idea as well
07:32:31MonkeyTamerget a gigabeat
07:32:50pintreetel me about 'gigabeat' pls
07:33:07Mouser_XI get 15+ hours off of one charge.
07:33:08MonkeyTamerthe only reason I'm not getting a gigabeat is because I intend on outfitting my ipod with an SSD
07:33:10pintreedoes it have 60Gig or more HDD?
07:33:22Mouser_XI have a 40 GB drive.
07:33:24pintreewhat's an SSD
07:33:27Mouser_XF40 is what I have.
07:33:32MonkeyTamerflash drive
07:33:33Mouser_XSolid State Drive
07:33:40Mouser_XBasically, what he said.
07:33:46pintreeand what does the SSD do?
07:33:55MonkeyTamerbut, Gigabeats are very good DAPs
07:34:04MonkeyTamerit's the same as a hard drive
07:34:12MonkeyTamerbut flash -> no moving parts
07:34:16Mouser_XThough, it'd take less battery to operate.
07:34:25Mouser_XSince there's no moving parts.
07:34:29Mouser_XAlso, it's less likely to break, that way.
07:34:37MonkeyTamerthus last longer
07:34:40Mouser_X(Moving parts on a HDD can scratch the drive)
07:34:43pintreeok so u attach the ssd to the ipod is this correct?
07:34:49MonkeyTamerkind of
07:34:54MonkeyTameryou'd have to open it
07:35:05Mouser_XWell, he was going to replace the HDD in his iPod with a SSD.
07:35:05pintreeopen the ipod or the SSD?
07:35:10MonkeyTamerbut it's the same size as a regular hard drive, more or less
07:35:24MonkeyTamerthere is a constraint however
07:35:26pintreeOk got it
07:35:35MonkeyTamerit will likely only fit in 60gb 5gs
07:35:36pintreewhat happens to your ipod hard drive then?
07:35:42MonkeyTameror ipod colors
07:35:55Mouser_XHe doesn't use the iPod HDD anymore.
07:35:58MonkeyTamertrash? frisbee? donate to to someone?
07:36:03Mouser_XHe could sell it on eBay.
07:36:08MonkeyTamerthat too
07:36:35MonkeyTamercould fetch like $20? :p
07:36:38pintreewait since it is a hard drive can't you simply by a hard drive box connect it and use it as an exteranl hard rive with your PC?
07:36:54Mouser_XMonkeyTamer: I'd think more.
07:37:04MonkeyTamerit's only 20 GB
07:37:08Mouser_XDepending on the condition, and size, of course.
07:37:24Mouser_XWell, I'd still think you'd get more than $20 for it.
07:37:32MonkeyTamerthat would be nice
07:37:38MonkeyTamerpintree: why?
07:37:41pintreer u saying that 'depending on the condition ' of the ipod HD u can do this?
07:38:00MonkeyTamerno, depending on the condition I could sell it
07:38:06Mouser_XNo, depending on the condition of the drive, you could get more than $20 on eBay for it.
07:38:16Mouser_XYes, what he said.
07:38:28pintreewhy? cause it's something i could consider if I can still use the ipod hard drive−−i was planning on buying an extrenal hd anyhow for backups
07:38:28MonkeyTamerthere was something funny about how matter of face that statement was
07:38:52MonkeyTamerno no no... you can't use flash for an external
07:38:56MonkeyTamerthat'd be wasteful
07:39:05 Part neutralrobotboy
07:39:08pintreeno, not the flash the HD
07:39:15MonkeyTamerthe 1.8?
07:39:20Mouser_Xpintree: You could use the iPod's old drive as an external for your PC. You might need to build an adapter for it though.
07:39:23MonkeyTamerit's still useless...
07:39:27Mouser_X(I don't know on that one.)
07:39:32MonkeyTamerthose drives are not very durable
07:39:33pintreethought so
07:39:40pintreehey when r u gonna sleep?
07:40:56pintreewell actually <w1ll14m> but i think he's gone
07:41:07Mouser_XYes, so do I.
07:41:14 Join Juddy [0] (
07:41:27pintreeok so back to the flash, how confident r u about it?
07:41:35pintreehow much does it go for?
07:41:37MonkeyTamerwell, they're rated for 10 years
07:41:38Mouser_XWhat do you mean?
07:41:41MonkeyTamerand they're not out yet
07:41:47Mouser_XOh, I'd have no idea how much it'd cost.
07:42:04Mouser_XIt'd be expensive though, based on prices for flash-based memory.
07:42:06MonkeyTamerI heard $169 for a 16GB
07:42:12MonkeyTamerstill very expensive
07:42:17Mouser_XSee? Expensive.
07:42:24pintreewell perhaps then, if it's as much as a new ipod or the giga thing mentioned earlier then it may not be a good didea
07:42:41MonkeyTamercould be better to get a gigabeat, and probably is
07:42:45Juddyhey guys i have found this really cool video encoding program to use for encoding files for mpeg viewe Its called blaze media pro. anyone tried it? comments?
07:42:46MonkeyTamerbut it's more for fun
07:42:59Mouser_XPersonally, selling your iPod, and getting a Gigabeat sounds like a good idea, to me.
07:43:14pintree$169 for a 16GB would mean more than 2X for a 60G
07:43:14MonkeyTamerI wouldn't doubt it
07:43:24Mouser_X(Take note: I love my Gigabeat. As such, I will of course talk it up the best I can.)
07:43:32pintreewill look into the gigabeat
07:43:50 Join t0dk0n [0] (
07:43:54Juddygigabeat F is heaps good value
07:44:02Juddyespecially once rockbox is installed :)
07:44:17MonkeyTamerBlaze media pro sounds familia
07:44:19Juddyits like so uber now.
07:44:20Mouser_Xpintree: I've heard you can find a Gigabeat F on eBay for about $80, if you keep a good watch on things.
07:44:36MonkeyTameryes, I have used it
07:44:40Mouser_X(That'd be the F40 though. If you're wanting a 60 GB model, it'd probably be more than that.)
07:44:43Juddyany good monkeytamer?
07:44:49MonkeyTamerseemed fairly decent
07:44:52t0dk0nis there any tutorials on using the new "recording" option for ipod videos?
07:44:55MonkeyTamerdid a good job more or less
07:44:58MonkeyTamerbut what's the price?
07:45:04t0dk0nor documentation, rather
07:45:05decayedcellMonkeyTamer lol Blaze Media Pro... I used to use that to convert something forgotten now
07:45:14pintreenow the ipod video 60G i bought at CDN $600 the new 80Gig one costs 150 less hmmm! wonder what i culd sell it for?
07:45:14Juddyah got a crack
07:45:16MonkeyTamerprobably video
07:45:38Juddycrack works good i can send it to u if u want
07:45:43MonkeyTamerno thanks
07:45:54pintree<Mouser_X> never used ebay−−delivery costs to taiwan is an extra $40 US
07:45:55decayedcelllol this IRC is logged remember Juddy
07:46:00MonkeyTamerwe're not supposed to discuss illegal things, besides, i'm not into drugs
07:46:16pintreeillegal things?? which ones?
07:46:16Mouser_Xpintree: Hmmm. I hadn't thought of that.
07:46:28t0dk0nand crack, yes
07:46:29Juddyi was referring to the crack in my arse btw
07:46:50Mouser_Xpintree: Talk to toffe. He's often in the #gigabeat channel. He could tell you good prices, and where to get them.
07:47:03pintreecrack in your ass ey?? my room mate is a male and very bisexual, wanna meet him?
07:47:11Juddylol nope
07:47:15Mouser_X(Toffe might be in here, but I haven't looked.)
07:47:21Juddyim in aus anyway
07:47:28Juddythank god
07:47:38decayedcellpintree no need to talk about your sexuality in the RB channel
07:47:43pintreevery new to IRC BTW how do i talk to toffe
07:48:03pintreeit's not my sexuality it's my roomates' but got it no more
07:48:09Mouser_XType "/join #gigabeat" without the " marks.
07:48:18Mouser_XIf he's not on, you'll have to wait until he is.
07:48:30*decayedcell boots into Kubuntu
07:48:31 Part decayedcell
07:48:33Mouser_XHe's not on right now.
07:48:43pintreeu mean right here on this prompt where i am writing now?
07:48:50Mouser_XYes, try that.
07:49:11pintreeokcool and to get back here all i hav to do is the same i would guess
07:49:42Mouser_XDepends on what you're using to access this channel.
07:49:50Mouser_XWhat program are you using?
07:50:12pintreehmm hello
07:50:19pintreeok just tried it and no go
07:50:25pintreei am using XChat
07:50:44Mouser_XI think that's Java based...
07:50:57Mouser_X(I don't remember, and I'm not very familiar with it.)
07:51:02pintreewouldn't know, but yes i think so too if memory serves me right
07:51:06Mouser_XI use mIRC.
07:51:09pintreewhat r u using?
07:51:18pintreeis mIRC free?
07:51:53MonkeyTameryou're *supposed* to register it
07:51:53pintreeIs mirc free? xchat is for one month
07:52:12 Join decayedcell [0] (
07:52:17MonkeyTamerchatzilla is free though
07:52:18Mouser_XThough, after awhile, it comes up with a box asking you to register everytime you start it.
07:52:21pintreeso I donwload mirc, register it, and voila. it's done and legal?
07:52:27MonkeyTamerif you use firefox, chatzilla is fine
07:52:42MonkeyTamerI think registering it costs something
07:53:01MonkeyTamerwhether or not anyone actually registers? beats me..
07:53:05decayedcellotherwise you can use Opera's built in IRC, that's free
07:53:11pintreeusing chatzilla w/ firefox gets no reminders? and is free?
07:53:20MonkeyTamerI use chatzilla
07:53:24pintreeok gotta go
07:53:29pintreethanx to all of you
07:53:36MonkeyTameryou're welcome
07:53:51pintreeOops can someone remind me how to reboot to ipod orig and not rockbocx pls
07:54:01decayedcellhold play to shutdown pintree
07:54:11decayedcellthen flick the hold switch to hold and it'll boot into OF
07:54:26pintreethnx cheers ye all
07:54:27decayedcellotherwise you can installed iPodLoader 2.5d6 and thats got a nice graphical menu instead
07:54:52MonkeyTamerI don't even use the loader currently
07:55:04MonkeyTamerI just write the firmware
07:55:38 Quit pintree ("Leaving")
07:57:05 Quit decayedcell (Remote closed the connection)
07:57:23 Join decayedcell [0] (
07:57:38 Join Macintork [0] (
07:57:54MacintorkFuck you all!
07:57:57MacintorkBan me please
07:58:00 Part Macintork
07:58:14Mouser_XI'm feeling the love!
07:58:31MonkeyTamersome people have no lives..
07:59:06Mouser_XThis is true...
07:59:10decayedcellHe could have at least said something exciting, like you guys bricked my iPod or something
07:59:52MonkeyTamerit takes a REAL effort the brick an iPod
08:00:27 Part t0dk0n
08:00:48MonkeyTamerwhile the screen scratches fairly easily, the inside of the device is fairly solid
08:01:18Mouser_XDrop it in cement.
08:01:24Mouser_XThere's one way to brick it.
08:01:44Mouser_X(A cube of cement, I should add.)
08:02:05*MonkeyTamer wonders if anyone has actually tried that yet
08:02:08Mouser_X"Hey, I bricked my iPod. Now I have an iBrick...
08:02:15decayedcellWell I read up on some website where they ran a car over a Nano and it was still working
08:02:29MonkeyTamerthat's surprising
08:02:39decayedcellYeah they're quite well built
08:02:52Mouser_XSounds almost like a Nintendo product...
08:02:53MonkeyTamerit sucks if you *want* to destroy it
08:03:08decayedcellhaha well theres always C4 MonkeyTamer
08:04:43MonkeyTamerwith a nintendo product, everything was fixed by blowing the dust out of them; definitely an uncommon occurrance these days
08:05:03decayedcellhaha true that. Good old days of cartridges
08:05:14Mouser_XWell, I've seen a Gameboy that survived a bomb attack.
08:05:36Mouser_X(It was in Iraq during Desert Storm, as I recall. I'm not 100% sure on that.)
08:05:37MonkeyTamerI suppose that thick plastic was designed for something
08:05:51Mouser_XIt was burned, black, and bubbly.
08:06:01Mouser_XThe keys were fused to the casing. Even so, it still ran.
08:06:12Mouser_XThe guy ran Tetris on it.
08:06:15MonkeyTamerthe developers probably designed it for soldiers, l ike M&Ms
08:06:35ShaidYou guys bricked my iPod!
08:06:48ShaidIt's now going in the iToilet!
08:06:49MonkeyTamerdid you read the manual?
08:06:55ShaidiFuck you iAll!
08:07:02MonkeyTamersection 2.2.2.
08:07:05ShaidActually, rockbox let me use my ibrick again.
08:07:10ShaidI broke the screen
08:07:24Shaidcouldn't see anything in OF due to it being really really light
08:07:39Shaidrockbox let me boost contrast really high so I could read bits and pieces AND navigate by the spoken menus.
08:07:54MonkeyTamerthat's useful
08:08:10Mouser_XAccording to Nintendo's warranty, they were not obligated to replace it (it was still under warranty, so they tried to use it. However, it did still run). But, Nintendo was nice, and replaced it, considering the uniqueness of the circumstances.
08:08:10Shaidand then I got an 80gig 5.5 for christmas, and I'm looking forward to using rockbox in colour and seeing it, actually. :D
08:08:12decayedcellgood so Shaid, if you ever find your iPod in a bomb attack, it should still be able to read out the menus
08:08:22Mouser_XI think it's in a museum or something somewhere.
08:08:51ShaidM&Ms were designed for soldiers?
08:09:02Mouser_XAs an energy food.
08:09:07Mouser_XIt didn't melt in your hands.
08:09:07Shaidthe things you learn
08:09:55Mouser_XWell, there it is.
08:09:56decayedcellM&M's have a thin titanium coating don't they
08:10:31MonkeyTamerno idea
08:11:58MonkeyTamerapparently it has tiO
08:11:59 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
08:12:08 Join Mouser_X [0] (
08:12:11MonkeyTamerfor the lettering
08:12:16decayedcellwhat's that supposed to do, turn them into Terminators
08:12:28Mouser_XI didn't think it was quite titanium...
08:12:45MonkeyTamerit's for the 'M's
08:13:05Mouser_XIn regards to the burned GB:
08:13:08Mouser_X"This "news" is older than the internet itself."
08:13:15Mouser_XThis is true, as I recall it.
08:13:27Mouser_XIt was featured in a Nintendo Power (we used to get those, years and years ago).
08:13:27MonkeyTamersounds so
08:14:30MonkeyTamerI remember those; that's when learning about new games was exciting
08:14:40MonkeyTamernow it's just going to gamespot or IGN
08:15:25MonkeyTamerbut now, we get to wait in excited anticipation of new 'c'-based games
08:15:33MonkeyTamerlike chopper
08:15:56Mouser_XI know some people who really want Sabatoge on Rockbox.
08:16:09Mouser_X(I think that's how it's spelled.)
08:16:18MonkeyTamerwhat is it?
08:16:37decayedcellthey want to haxor other iPods using a virtual wireless connection
08:16:48decayedcelloh Sabatoge the game
08:16:50MonkeyTamerthat game's ok
08:17:15MonkeyTamermy favorite game is still bubbles for Rockbox personally
08:17:30Mouser_XI don't play games on my Gigabeat.
08:17:49Mouser_XMainly because I don't want to interupt my music playback.
08:17:55Mouser_XRockboy is the one that I find most useful.
08:18:08Mouser_X(And playing that would interupt my music.)
08:18:16MonkeyTamermakes sense
08:18:43decayedcellYeah bubbles is awesome
08:19:05MonkeyTamergameboy did have some great games, such as final fantasy legends and the original pokemon
08:19:21Mouser_XI like Zelda4: Link's Awakening.
08:19:24decayedcellgotta catch em all
08:19:25MonkeyTamerI heard rockboy won't really run well on the iPod, so I don't even bother
08:19:34MonkeyTameroh yes!
08:19:36MonkeyTamerand stealing?
08:19:45Mouser_XWell, I've heard that if you disable sound, that's it's playable.
08:19:48decayedcellwell you could use iPL and iBoy
08:19:55Mouser_XI don't like being called a theif.
08:19:57decayedcellthat reportedly runs near full speed on iPod targets
08:19:59Mouser_XAs such, I never stole.
08:20:00MonkeyTamerlink's awakening was the best zelda game: you could steal
08:20:10decayedcellYeah the Zelda series is awesome
08:20:16Mouser_XMonkeyTamer: You can steal in Twilight Princess as well.
08:20:27Mouser_XIn one location, anyway.
08:20:27MonkeyTamerawesome; I was unaware
08:20:39MonkeyTamergotta love easter eggs
08:20:45BHSPitLappyIt's not an easter egg
08:20:51BHSPitLappyIt's a character choice
08:21:00Mouser_XAlso, bomb arrows were first implemented in LA.
08:21:01BHSPitLappyAt an obviously honor-code-based shop.
08:21:08BHSPitLappyMouser_X, I know. :)
08:21:16MonkeyTamerI suppose, but it's not like you have to steal for any reason
08:21:17Mouser_XI was telling MonkeyTamer.
08:21:34BHSPitLappyMonkeyTamer, it's quite profitable in LA...
08:21:43BHSPitLappyI mean, damn. I'm not waiting around to get myself a bow.
08:21:49MonkeyTamerlol, that is true
08:21:49BHSPitLappyI don't mind being called THIEF.
08:22:38MonkeyTamerit was especially useful for stealing that shovel
08:23:45Mouser_XI do ming being called theif.
08:23:48MonkeyTamerI think that review sites should have a "screwing around" factor, which makes games much more enjoyable imo
08:24:10Mouser_XI was rather upset when, accidently (I didn't understand how to pay), I stole in Twilight Princess.
08:24:20Mouser_X*I do mind being called a theif.
08:24:47MonkeyTamerbetter to steal in a game than in real life
08:25:07Mouser_XOkay, I guess that's true.
08:25:57MonkeyTamerthat's what's good about rockbox I personally think though; it allows you to not resort to finding *ways* of obtaining music
08:26:26MonkeyTameryou're given the freedom of virtually any codec you wish to use
08:26:44decayedcellMonkeyTamer more correctly, the freedom of choosing between
08:26:57Mouser_XI like ADX.
08:26:59decayedcellgah can't find list
08:27:07Mouser_XIt supports looping of music.
08:27:26MonkeyTamer"I like APE"
08:27:26Mouser_X(It's used in video games a lot, which is what most of my collection comes from.)
08:27:29MonkeyTamerjust kidding
08:27:47MonkeyTamerI haven't tried other formats other than FLAC, aac, and mp3 really
08:27:50*decayedcell checks Wikipedia, confirms
08:28:42MonkeyTamerI know many people like ogg in my dormm
08:28:51Mouser_XIf I had the right software, I'd convert a TON of my music to ADX, since I would like my files to loop, where possible.
08:29:29MonkeyTameryou could have a virtual soundtrack wherever you go
08:30:15Mouser_XOn that note (offtopic) anyone have any idea what I should look for, or where to look, to find a program that can compare a WAV file to itself? I'd want to do this, to find where in the file it would loop at.
08:30:53Mouser_X(Well, it relates to Rockbox through ADX. I wouldn't mind if all my music was ADX...)
08:32:33Mouser_XThat's what I thought. I figured it couldn't hurt to ask though.
08:32:49MonkeyTamerno idea tbh
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08:36:24decayedcellah bloody hell bookmark.c errors
08:36:44decayedcellbookmark.c: In function ‘select_bookmark’: etc
08:37:09MonkeyTamerI've never actually even used a bookmark
08:37:19decayedcellneither but this file is breaking my build
08:37:34MonkeyTameryeah, the board isn't all green yet
08:37:52MonkeyTamerJdGordon put up a nice effort though
08:38:03decayedcelllooks like JdGordon is going to bombard the update portal hehe
08:38:55MonkeyTamerit's been bombarded pretty much nonstop the past couple of days
08:39:17MonkeyTamerdid you see the christmas tree earlier?
08:39:32JdGordonthere are 2 more commits to get green again
08:39:35decayedcellMonkeyTamer where where
08:39:42JdGordonbut im not doing them because im not 100% sure they are safe
08:39:49MonkeyTamerlol, the current builds page
08:40:08MonkeyTamerstill, very fine effort though
08:41:10decayedcellhot damn looks kind of like traffic lights atm
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08:41:25decayedcellwhich commit broke the builds/
08:41:34MonkeyTamerthe wundef or something?
08:41:49 Quit BHSPitMonkey (Connection timed out)
08:42:36LloreanWhat do you mean 'broke'?
08:42:46LloreanAll the yellow is just warnings.
08:43:02decayedcellThe builds on the build server started going red, and my current SVN doesn't compile beyond bookmark.c
08:43:07MonkeyTamermade for some nice scores
08:43:25Lloreandecayedcell: If you look at the build table, the only red builds are the ones that have always been red.
08:44:05Lloreandecayedcell: Are you using SVN to check out the sources, or the tarball?
08:44:26JdGordonexcept the few reds which came up when we tryed fixing the yellow
08:44:38decayedcellLlorean SVN
08:44:52decayedcelloh well reverted using svn revert
08:45:26LloreanJdGordon: Yeah, but those aren't current now.
08:45:40Lloreandecayedcell: Wait, so you were using a patched build?
08:45:45MonkeyTamerthey make nice decorations though
08:46:00decayedcellLlorean yeah must have been one of the patches
08:46:16decayedcellhowever I am getting this
08:46:17decayedcellspkey.c:390:5: warning: "TRUEKOMPAT" is not defined
08:46:18decayedcellspkey.c:647:5: warning: "TRUEKOMPAT" is not defined
08:46:26Lloreandecayedcell: How hard is it to test a clean build *before* claiming builds are broken?
08:46:30MonkeyTamerthose are the current warnings
08:46:58LloreanEspecially when you say 'my current SVN' isn't working, without mentioning any patches...
08:47:26decayedcelldo you want an apology or something Llorean? I'm sorry then won't happen again
08:48:02Lloreandecayedcell: Well, it just seems very common sense to me.
08:49:01LloreanBut as long as you remember the same rules apply to 'it doesn't compile' as to bug reports, that'll be fine.
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08:51:18nicktasticIs there a way to clear the dynamic playlist?
08:51:58Lloreannicktastic: Press stop?
08:52:08LloreanIt's empty if playback is actually stopped.
08:52:50nicktasticI see, thanks
09:05:38amiconnlinuxstb: The public fat specs describe the standard longname->shortname mapping algorithm: page 30 and 31
09:06:47amiconnIt's part of the specification that shortnames where the longname needed to be truncated or otherwise lossy converted (apart from the capitalisation) always get a 'numeric tail'
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09:10:15JdGordonmorning amiconn, should fix the LCD_PIXELFORMAT warnings, but im not 100% sure there wont be any accidental code because of it... doing a search for LCD_PIXELFORMAT in the coe shows no #ifdefs on it, but there is if pixelformat == horizontal_packing ... else ... so I didnt commit it
09:12:59amiconnLCD_PIXELFORMAT is only used when LCD_DEPTH > 1, and there's a limited set of pixel formats for each depth
09:13:16amiconnI can't see such warnings in the build table....
09:14:14amiconnOh, I see, it's for the archoses
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09:14:58amiconnThat's strange; for mono formats LCD_PIXELFORMAT shouldn't be checked at all
09:15:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:15:15amiconn...because there only is one (currently)
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09:16:07amiconnI'd say that's an actual bug -Wundef is supposed to find, nothing to suppress by 'just defining' it
09:17:53amiconnHmm, looks like I was slightly wrong
09:18:12amiconnThe code needs the pixel packing orientation also for mono, even though there is only one
09:18:40amiconnSo the correct solution would be to add the correct packing to the config-<target>.h files
09:19:19amiconnThe archoses are VERTICAL_PACKING of course
09:19:45amiconn(the bitmap ones)
09:23:51amiconnJdGordon: It looks like one of your fixes added unwanted code to many targets
09:24:49amiconnLook at the size table: your 02:04 commit added code to 14 targets
09:26:48amiconn..and it looks like it is some radio code: it hits only targets without radio
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09:30:42*amiconn greps
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09:38:42amiconnJdGordon: You overlooked lots of places checking for ifdef CONFIG_TUNER...
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09:46:26libuxstb_amiconn: Thanks for the FAT link, I had a feeling there was an official description somewhere. Can you think of any reason why Rockbox shouldn't be using the "official" algorithm for shortname creation?
09:46:58Lloreanlibuxstb_: Your nickname has something significantly wrong with it.
09:47:08amiconnThe current algorithm in rockbox is shorter, but since it seems to have problems, I'd say we should try to implement the official one
09:47:17amiconnLlorean: hehe
09:47:39*Llorean is not familiar with that library.
09:47:51amiconnuxstb_ ?
09:47:52 Nick libuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb_ (i=5343d4aa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
09:48:07*linuxstb_ has another coffee
09:48:45linuxstb_Llorean: Thanks :)
09:49:14*linuxstb_ reads the logs from last night and hopes the root menu is committed soon...
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09:51:14amiconnJdGordon: Fix for CONFIG_TUNER committed.
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10:01:35linuxstb_For any Mac users who want to try the latest rbutil -
10:05:54JdGordonamiconn: ah damn, thats for fixing it
10:06:24 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC")
10:08:00JdGordonlinuxstb: the only thing holding it back now is the buttons for the various targets...
10:10:34amiconnJdGordon: LCD_PIXELFORMAT fix is also committed
10:11:20JdGordonlast big group is the backlight config then
10:12:06amiconnYes, and backlight warnings only appear for Ondios... because Ondios don't have a backlight (but the pcb has it prepared)
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10:13:44amiconnHmm, CONFIG_I2C isn't defined for the recv2?? Should be the same as for the fmrec...
10:13:55Bagderyes I forgot that when I fixed yday
10:14:16amiconnI wonders waht's up with the gigabeat warnings...
10:14:23nlsspc codec
10:14:50Bagderbut why only on gigabeat?
10:14:55amiconnYes, but why gigabeat only?
10:14:58LloreanIt's a lot faster
10:15:01LloreanIt's Echo, and other features
10:15:17amiconnAnd why not the sim then?
10:15:28LloreanProbably just didn't think to define them for the sim.
10:15:54amiconnBagder: Do we use -Wundef for sims now?
10:16:08Bagderhm, yes I think so
10:16:11amiconnDoesn't look like it...
10:16:25Bagderah no
10:16:33Bagderit overrides the default options in configure
10:16:53amiconnThe sims are all green thoroughout the build table (apart from the buggy gcc 4.1.1 warnings)
10:17:37BagderI guess it makes sense to do -Wundef for them as well
10:17:37 Quit bun-bun ()
10:18:10*Bagder does a test build
10:18:17*amiconn can't type :/
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10:18:39Bagderwe better fix some code before we try that...
10:20:04Bagderused all over in #ifs
10:20:10Bagderand not set for sims
10:20:36amiconnHmm, then a proper convention would even help to reduce the checks
10:21:15amiconnIirc most (all?) checks look like #if CONFIG_CPU == <type> && !defined(SIMULATOR)
10:21:39amiconnBut CONFIG_CPU isn't defined for the simulator, so the second test is kinda redundant
10:22:05Bagderyeah, something like that
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10:25:00Bagdertable slowly looking nice again
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10:30:18amiconnLlorean: The comments can't be right....
10:30:38Lloreanamiconn: I have a following fix for the comments.
10:30:39ShaidI get a whole bunch of 'pointer targets in arguement differ in signedness' warnings when I compile my just checked out SVN tree of rockbox.
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10:30:45ShaidI just installed FC6 on a spare machine
10:31:00amiconnHmm, and I wonder why this one doesn't just use #ifdef for checking
10:31:02BagderShaid: you mean when you build a simulator?
10:31:03ShaidI'm guessing I have some silly compiler version...
10:31:11Bagderamiconn: I would say it is a bug in the codec
10:31:16Shaidnope, building ipod4g target.
10:31:25BagderShaid: using gcc 4.0.3?
10:31:28Lloreanamiconn: I thought the idea wasn't to use #ifdef any more in most cases anyway, so that the -Wundef is helpful?
10:31:44BagderShaid: there you go
10:31:51Shaidthat's what I thought.
10:32:01ShaidDamn new distros and their uptodate packages!
10:32:04*Shaid shakes fist.
10:32:13Bagderthe distro has no arm gcc for you
10:32:15linuxstbShaid: What does "arm-elf-gcc" tell you?
10:32:22linuxstbI mean "arm-elf-gcc −−version"
10:32:37Shaidoh sorry
10:33:13linuxstbAnd you're definitely compiling for the target - you didn't select Simulator by accident?
10:34:04Lloreanamiconn: If I did it wrong I'm sorry, I may have misunderstood the purpose of using the warning on undefined option.
10:34:23*Shaid reruns tools/configure
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10:34:40linuxstbShaid: You should do a "make clean" as well...
10:34:52Shaidyeah, I did.
10:35:04Shaidmake clean, that is
10:35:10Shaidand it seems to be not having warnings now
10:35:27ShaidI guess I forgot to change dir before making a sim config...
10:35:34*Shaid feels stupid.
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10:52:47JdGordonhmm.. on the ipod, play from the menus should goto wps? which would leave left as the only cancel button?
10:53:31LloreanJdGordon: Isn't Menu a cancel button in the iPod Menus?
10:53:45LloreanOr do you mean a "back" button?
10:53:51linuxstbIMO, I don't see a need to always make every button do something - that just leads to confusion when people press buttons randomly to try and work out what they do.
10:53:54JdGordoni mean a "up-one-llevel"
10:54:13LloreanJdGordon: Play never went up one level anyway
10:54:25linuxstbI like the suggestion of removing the cancel feature (at least on targets with few buttons), and make left always accept and go back.
10:54:27LloreanJdGordon: Menu and Left do "Up one level"
10:54:36JdGordonLlorean: sorry, your right, it was hold play
10:54:41linuxstbMENU should be the fast-exit from menus.
10:54:46linuxstb(when it's implemented...)
10:55:15LloreanJdGordon: Hold Play? I never noticed that. I'm going to go on a limb and bet nobody uses Hold Play to get out of the menus except when trying to shut down.
10:55:37JdGordonlinuxstb: yep, that should work in the root menu patch now
10:56:02JdGordonin svn, menuu would go up a level, but with the patch menu will go to root
10:56:25LloreanI'm okay with that, Left makes plenty of sense anyway
10:57:12linuxstbIt's up to you (you're working on it), but I would prefer to see the root menu patch first committed with just the core functionality, and then we can see what the spare buttons can do, if anything, afterwards.
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10:59:18BagderI agree
10:59:28Bagderdoing it step by step is a lot wiser
10:59:35amiconnlinuxstb: Even with few buttons, making Left accept doesn't mean to remove the cancel feature
10:59:44amiconnIt was like this before actions, even on Ondio
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10:59:55PaulJamJdGordon: concerning your menu rework, could you check if the language strings in the "ID3 Tag Priority" setting are interchanged? if i select "V2 then V1" it actually prefers the ID3v1 tag on my h320. but i am too lazy to check with a svn build myself.
11:00:21JdGordonthat last sentence should have been left off...
11:00:40linuxstbamiconn: I'm just a little against the idea of making every button do something in every screen - it leads to inconsistent button mappings. But if we can cancel consistently, then so much the better.
11:00:41LloreanYes "I don't know if a bug exists in my code or yours, so you should check first."
11:01:10amiconnlinuxstb: On Ondio, Right and Left were accept, and Off was cancel
11:01:32amiconnActions redefined the meaning of Left to be cancel as well, which doesn't make sense
11:01:40LloreanOn the iPods, when in an actual setting list (like, volume dB values) would it make sense to have "Menu" still cancel?
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11:01:59LloreanErr, not still
11:02:18JdGordonPaulJam: ah yes... it appears your correct
11:02:21LloreanThe 'value list' to me seems to not actually be a menu any more, but a selection.
11:02:33pintreeHI, if I may−−I can't shut down rock box−−pressing on 'PLay' for a few seconds reboots it, pressing 'menu + select" reboots it as well
11:03:01JdGordonLlorean: I think there shold be cancel button, especialy if we change left to being accept
11:03:15Lloreanpintree: If you reboot it into the Apple firmware, does it show a charging icon over the battery, even when it's not?
11:03:29*JdGordon wonders how so many \t 's got into settings_list.c.... stupid anjuta!
11:03:32linuxstbpintree: Do you have the charger connected?
11:03:54pintreedon't remember how to reboot to apple
11:04:42JdGordonPaulJam: all fixed
11:04:56JdGordoncrap... or not... stupid local is out of sync :p
11:05:04pintreelinuxstb yes charger is connected but i want to shut it down so i can actually charge the thing instead it stays on
11:06:20LloreanPaulJam: This is at least the second time recently you've asked someone else with an SVN build to verify something for you, and in the previous instance it was your build at fault.
11:06:36linuxstbpintree: You can't shut down an ipod whilst charging.
11:06:43pintreeLlorean how do i reboot to apple−−hold play then quickly hold play again?
11:06:58Lloreanpintree: You can't shut down while charging, as linuxstb said.
11:07:14pintreelinuxstb ok got it, thought it might be so but was hoping differently
11:07:30linuxstbIt would have been easier if you had just asked that question to start with...
11:08:13pintreelinuxstb talking to me about having to ask the question?
11:09:45PaulJamLlorean: i'm not sure, but the commit at 17 Feb 23:01 looks as if this issue was there in svn too.
11:10:35LloreanPaulJam: What 'this' are you referring to. JdGordon fixed the ID3v2/v1 thing because it was in SVN, but the previous thing I saw you mention in the logs, wasn't in SVN but just your build according to what you said in the logs.
11:11:30Lloreanpintree: You said that you suspected what the problem was, but you didn't mention the charger being connected when trying to shut down, which if you _suspected_ that was the problem seems logical as something to mention.
11:12:04PaulJamLlorean: i meant the status bar overlapping the text in the runtime screen (i think tat was what you were referring to).
11:12:08pintreeno i did not supsect it til u said it−−not that smart
11:12:41pintreeme not thart smart. that is
11:12:44LloreanPaulJam: I was just going on the logs.
11:12:58LloreanPaulJam: Either way, is there some reason you can't be bothered to check an official build first?
11:13:00JdGordonSlasheri: you around?
11:13:21LloreanPaulJam: I've just noticed a distressing trend of people coming in here with problems that go away when they try a SVN build, overall.
11:14:30linuxstbJdGordon: Your root_menu patch is giving warnings and errors - due to the -Wundef I think. It's using #ifdef CONFIG_TUNER...
11:15:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:15:11JdGordonbah, ok, ill fix them.. (im building the h300 here so didnt see them)
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11:15:35linuxstbNo rush, I've fixed them locally.
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11:16:32JdGordonI think im going to not allow the database browser to resume... its causing problems, hopefully Slasheri can fix that later :)
11:16:48LloreanResume as in 'resume playback'?
11:16:52*linuxstb wishes there was a standard for the orientation of USB sockets - 50% of my sockets are one way, 50% the other...
11:16:55LloreanOr resume location in the tree?
11:16:56tickThe recent commits bring me to the question: how are on/off config settings defined? And how should they be tested with #if. #ifdef XXX or #if XXX? I've seen different style in rockbox.
11:17:04JdGordonLlorean: the 2nd
11:17:12LloreanAh, yeah, that does seem unreliable at best.
11:17:29Lloreanlinuxstb: I'd have to say mine is closer to 3/4 one way, 1/4 the other, but a standard would be nice. Most of mine are USB logo up.
11:17:33linuxstbtick: IIUC, CONFIG_* should be tested with #if, HAVE_* should be tested with #ifdef.
11:17:53*Llorean wonders if the location of the logo on the cable is standard, or if he just has remarkably consistent cables.
11:18:06SlasheriJdGordon: hmm, probably :) in fact, i wouldn't mind if you rewrote the database browser handling in the tree* code
11:18:08amiconnLlorean: The cable marking is standard afaik
11:18:14linuxstbOr I'm just unlucky, and I always try the wrong way first...
11:18:14LloreanGood to know.
11:18:22Slasherithat handling was based on the previous database and has had many issues
11:18:58ticklinuxstb: that's unlogical IMHO. I'd rather do it all with #if, not #ifdef. That way you make sure that you define all settings for all platforms explicitly and not forget anything
11:19:37ticklinuxstb: and the developers have one clear rule
11:19:40BagderI think linuxstb is right
11:19:41linuxstbtick: It's not illogical. CONFIG_* are for features with different implementations - e.g. CONFIG_TUNER specifies the type of tuner, or is 0 if the hardware doesn't have a tuner.
11:19:53JdGordonSlasheri: I think if set_current_file() was implemented for the DB it would be ok, but I dunno... for now its ok to just start it in /
11:19:54pintreehmm interesting what u guys r writing−−understand very little but i get the picture−−anyhow you're all obviously busy so i'm gonna go
11:19:58pintreethnx for the help
11:20:12JdGordondoes the db use paths like the file browser? or completly differenet?
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11:20:53linuxstbtick: So what would you suggest as an alternative?
11:20:54SlasheriJdGordon: database would need to know the full selected path in order to able resume
11:21:48ticklinuxstb: I'd like to deal the same way with all of them, i.e. #if, and not #ifdef
11:21:52JdGordonIt doesnt keep track of its "location" ? i.e /artist/album = a/ etc?
11:21:55SlasheriJdGordon: it uses no paths
11:22:05JdGordonshame :p
11:22:15Bagdertick: it doesn't make sense to have to define every feature you do not have
11:22:15Slasherithat depends on the selection and user configured tagnavi menu system
11:22:49Slasheriso it needs to know at least the previously selected menu entry configuration and location
11:23:13*amiconn wonders why the recorder8mb build jumps +/-28 all the time, while the ordinary recorder doesn't do that
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11:23:22tickBagder: then you can explicitly state that you don't have that feature. And the compiler/preprocessor will tell you if you've forgotten to define the "state" of a feature for a platform
11:23:41Bagdertick: it grows painful to have to do that for all targets
11:23:43tick"state" = have / don't have
11:23:47amiconnJdGordon: Check the Ondio columns :)
11:24:26*Bagder runs off
11:24:31JdGordonnice n clean :)
11:24:36tick Bagder: maybe. But we can have a list of all features and define every single one of them for each platfrom. A feature matrix so to say
11:25:39Juice^if you set a backdrop to a bmp which is pure black, and the font is black too.. is there a easy way to revert the backdrop back to one that makes the font readable? perhaps a button combination that resets the backdrop to default or none
11:25:52tickThere can surely exist dependent features. E.g. if you set e.g. HAVE_TUNER to 0 then you don'd gave to define TUNER_TYPE (just an example from my mind)
11:26:21nlsJuice^: you can reset settings, but you need to tell us which target you're on
11:26:36Juice^nls: sansa
11:26:54amiconntick: There is no HAVE_TUNER
11:27:03amiconn...only CONFIG_TUNER
11:27:13amiconn...which is (now) set to 0 if there is no tuner
11:27:22tickamiconn: that was just an fictious example.
11:27:32amiconn...and you picked a special one, as CONFIG_TUNER is even a bitmask
11:27:50JdGordondo any targets have both tuners?
11:28:08nlsJuice^: hmm, tricky, that is quite new, so I do not know if reset settings on a button cmobination is implemented, try asking dan_a or barrywardell, when thwy are here, or if you can acess the device from your computer, just delete ./rockbox/config.cfg
11:28:13amiconnJdGordon: The Ondio FM exists in several hardware versions, detected at runtime
11:28:21JdGordonah ok
11:28:40amiconnOlder ones have the samsung tuner (same as the fmrecorder), newer ones have the philips tuner (same as the irivers)
11:28:56 Quit amiconn (" HydraIRC -> <- 100,000+ downloads can't be wrong")
11:29:12tick amiconn: my point is that I want to have a closed world, i.e. each feature should be explicitly defined as existent or non-existent. And not "conclusion by default" (non-existent unless defined as existent)
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11:29:39Juice^nls: allright thanks, yes im aware of how to reset it when connected to a computer..thought it would be very handy to have such an function to reset with a key-combo when a computer is far far away :]
11:29:46JdGordontick: yeah, but we are lasy, and doing that for every target now would be painful
11:30:24tickJdGordon: I know :-) But doing so would avoid spelling problems IMHO
11:30:26JdGordonyour idea would mean updating 22 different config files, adding heaps of lines of code
11:30:55tickJdGordon: why adding? Not changing?
11:31:51JdGordonbecause atm if a target doesnt have something, its left out of the config.. explicitly stating it doesnt have it would add lines
11:31:54tickJdGordon: you'd just write #if XXX (or #if XXX=yyy) instead of #ifdef XXX
11:32:28Lloreantick: And every time a new thing is added, you'd have to add a #define to every single config file stating that hardware explicitly doesn't have it.
11:32:31tickJdGordon: aha, ok. But in the real code the above statement still holds, no?
11:32:42LloreanRather than simply having the whole system automatically know it doesn't have it because that config doesn't say "Hey, I have this"
11:32:50JdGordonisnt that what we have started doing?
11:33:04tickLlorean: yes, that's true. But that's good IMHO.
11:33:51tickYou consciously describe your platform and don't leave it to the chance of the right default.
11:34:03Lloreantick: As the list changes that could mean dozens of additional lines in each config file when a new one is created, plus dozens or more of files that need updated with every added target.
11:34:11LloreanWhat default?
11:34:16LloreanIf you leave off a piece of hardware, it's not there.
11:35:04linuxstbtick: It's not by chance - for example, you #define HAVE_RECORDING for devices that can record. If it can't record, you don't define it.
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11:35:49linuxstbBut most features are now defined how (I think) you want them to be - with CONFIG_XXX which is always defined, and is 0 if the device doesn't support it.
11:36:28tickLlorean: we could define all of them to the value meaning "don't have" and then redefine some of them in the config files. But in the code you'd always have #if and not #ifdef. One style for all.
11:36:52JuddyAnyone know what the most compatable mp3 player for rockbox is? I just wonder cos the gigabeat seems to have a decent battery life with rockbox yet ipod has a relatively bad one.. what other mp3 players work good with rockbox?
11:37:10tickNow, if you use #if where you'd have used #ifdef or vice versa you'll have an obscure bug.
11:37:17linuxstbJuddy: Basically anything that doesn't have a portalplayer processor (ipods, iriver H10 and Sansa).
11:37:26LloreanJuddy: Basically, anything not PortalPlayer based.
11:37:36Juddywould the gigabeat have the highest gain from rockbox?
11:37:52LloreanProbably the H120 benefits most from the Rockbox featureset.
11:37:54linuxstbIt has a pretty bad original firmware by all accounts, so in that respect, yes.
11:37:58Juddyah. so ipods H10 etc they are portal player based?
11:38:20ticklinuxstb: CONFIG_XXX is in the line with my proposal.
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11:38:44linuxstbtick: then you should be 99% happy.
11:38:49Juddywhat does that mean? the way the processing is done?
11:38:59ticklinuxstb: I am :-)))
11:39:05LloreanJuddy: It's a specific brand of processor.
11:39:21Juddyand its shit?
11:39:25LloreanOne that's not documented, so our support for it is coming slow.
11:39:36LloreanNo, by all means it's a reasonable processor.
11:39:53Juddyah. what has better processor in general gigabeat or ipod?
11:40:01Llorean'Better' in what way?
11:40:14Juddygigabeat F vs ipod video in terms of processing power
11:40:16nlsThe gigabeat is muuuuch faster :-)
11:40:42JdGordonSlasheri: what path should i tell the db to always start in? setting tc.currdir to / doesnt seem to work
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11:41:52linuxstbJuddy: I wouldn't go as far as to say Rockbox is bad on the ipods, just not as good as other targets. The main issues are performance (if you want to play high-bitrate lossy files and use the software EQ, then you'll struggle), and battery life. Personally I'm happy with the battery life (I only ever listen for a couple of hours a day), and use FLAC which plays very efficiently.
11:41:56Juddyalso im thinking of upgrading from F40 gb to x60. How do the 2 players compare for rockbox use?
11:42:26SlasheriJdGordon: hmm, in fact db browser does not use tc.currdir at all, so no matter what you set it to
11:42:42Slasherijust tagtree_init() is needed prior to starting the browser
11:42:44nlsJuddy: they are supposed to be basically the same hardwarem but the X models are smaller and lacks buttonlight
11:42:49JdGordonah, nuts... ok
11:42:52Slasheriups, not that
11:43:10Juddynls: ah prob not worth while upgrade then
11:43:23Juddyi heard X has a bigger screen?
11:43:39Llorean.2 inches, yes.
11:43:42linuxstbJdGordon: Root menu looking good... Couple of comments - "Recording" in the settings menu still takes you to the "settings/screen" sub-menu. Also, have my suggestions of "Playlists" and "System" entries in the root menu been rejected?
11:43:42Juddybut i also noted battery life is worse cos screen is LCD
11:43:43Slasheritagtree_load is enough
11:43:45LloreanThat's 0.2 larger.
11:43:57nlsoh, yes that is correct, 2,2"->2,4" iirc but with the same resolution
11:44:15LloreanPersonally, I tend to like smaller screens at the same resolution.
11:44:27nlsdunno about worse vattery tho...
11:44:31Juddyah interesting. yeh i was wonderin bout that cos i noticed the mpegplayer wiki doesnt mention different resolution for X
11:44:41*nls can't type while hungover
11:44:42JdGordonlinuxstb: all noted... recording can stay for a while untill that menu gets converted properly... and no to both the other 2
11:44:50JdGordonI mean, no they wernt rejected
11:44:51Juddyyeah. well X uses LCD and i think F uses TFT
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11:46:12nlsJuddy: if you want (accurate) details on gigabeat hw, you shoud ask markun or one of the other gigabeat guys
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11:47:01nlsJdGordon: if we want to change a setting in the code do we still reset all of them or just the one?
11:47:08Juddygood point
11:47:41JdGordonnls: not sure what you mean, but only the one you change should be effected
11:48:27nlsJdGordon: well, in a situation where we would have bumped config_block version when that was used
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11:49:13JdGordonthe onyl config verison is for the NVRAM settings, if the order or byte count is changed...
11:49:21JdGordonso no, you probaly dont need to worry
11:49:37Juddyanyone know much about progress on mpegplayer? Do you guys anticipate that one day it will be really good?
11:49:50JdGordonone day it will rule the world...
11:49:51nlsJdGordon: thanks, I'll just remove the note in the manual then :-)
11:50:29LloreanJuddy: If someone works on it, yes.
11:50:35Juddylike perfect videos. that would be awesome. mpeg 4 possibly? What is the dif between mp2 and mp4 anyhow? better compression?
11:50:44linuxstbJuddy: It's a very low priority for me (I've done most of the work on it so far, but am not working on it atm), but a couple of gigabeat owners have expressed an interest in working on it. I don't know what progress they've made though.
11:51:15Juddyi hope they do
11:52:03Juddyi know its not really in the spirit of open source? or maybe it is? but id make donations to rockbox so developers get paid and have more time to make rockbox awesome
11:52:22JdGordonthats very in the spirit
11:52:39JdGordonthere is a donate link on the front page...
11:52:52Juddyrockbox has prob saved me 400 dollars as it is( the cost to upgrade players) since i dont need to upgrade from f40 now cos i can do all the things i wanted from a new player
11:52:58LloreanYou can't really donate to a specific task though.
11:53:04linuxstbI think the "spirit" of open source, if any, is that money is irrelevant. But it's unlikely that anyone will give up their day job to work on Rockbox...
11:55:26Juddyif they had enuf donations to support it they would
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11:55:29Juddywhy not?
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11:56:14Juddyif ppl are doing it for free in their spare time i dont see why they wouldnt do it full time for money
11:56:16JdGordonI doubt there would be that much in the pot to support someone full time...
11:56:37LloreanRockbox would have to have a drastic increase in donations.
11:57:02Juddywhat do donations cover atm
11:57:04Juddyhosting costs?
11:57:13linuxstbNo, hosting is donated/sponsored.
11:57:20LloreanVarious things. Hardware costs when something gets damaged during work, for example.
11:57:23linuxstbI think it's mainly buying hardware for developers.
11:59:24Juddywell if someone takes over the pluging mpegplayer and sets up there own site for it for progress updates and donations ill donate to them directly
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12:01:06Juddylinuxstb why are u no longer intersted in completing it anyhow?
12:01:37LloreanThere are a lot of more important things he's working on
12:02:57*JdGordon thinks he has the quirks out of the browsers
12:03:03Juddywhat other stuff?
12:03:04LloreanJuddy: As it is, Rockbox's main focus is audio features. Video's just an 'extra'
12:03:09Juddy(just interested)
12:03:12linuxstbI am interested in it, but as Llorean said, there are other things I want to do first, not least of which is port Rockbox to the AV300...
12:03:38Juddymeh av 300 who cares about that :P
12:03:43LloreanHe does.
12:03:55Juddyit was a joke ;)
12:03:59Juddythat player any good?
12:04:03Juddywhats its specs?
12:04:12LloreanWe're also hoping he works out the problem in ipodpatcher so that dual boot on the grayscale ipods can be fixed. ;)
12:04:26linuxstbIt's old, but the reason I like it is that it takes 2.5" disks, meaning I can carry around 160GB of FLACs.
12:05:15*Llorean would like a 2.5" SWCODEC target.
12:05:21LloreanOr even 'mostly SWCODEC' as it is.
12:05:26linuxstbIt's also a relatively easy port, as the archopen project has source-code for drivers for all the hardware.
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12:06:12linuxstbProblem is the CPU is relatively slow - a 54MHz arm7tdmi without a cache...
12:06:34linuxstbSo whilst I don't think FLAC will struggle, the lossy formats probably will.
12:06:39linuxstb(without using the DSP)
12:06:58Juddylossy formats are compressed ones such as mp3???
12:07:01linuxstbBut of course MP3 is done in hardware.
12:07:23linuxstbJuddy: Yes. The av300 has a hardware MP3 decoder, but other formats need to be decoded on the main CPU.
12:08:13Juddyi see
12:08:55Juddyquestion: why cant the codec for wma just be added to rockbox and then wa la' wma plays?
12:09:01Juddyits not that simple is it?
12:09:09LloreanThe codec kinda has to be converted first.
12:09:20Juddyis that being worked on?
12:09:20LloreanSo, I don't know what you mean by 'just be added'
12:09:30linuxstbcodecs need to be implemented specifically for Rockbox, like any other code.
12:09:37Juddyah. i didnt know it needs to be converted
12:09:44LloreanI believe the statement was "Getting WMA working requires someone with a clue, and the problem is people with a clue tend to know better than to use WMA"
12:10:06Juddyah yeh. its not actually a bad format tho is it?
12:10:13linuxstb"people with a clue don't use WMA" IIRC.
12:10:27LloreanJuddy: It's not really a good one.
12:10:50Juddyi mean personally i use mp3 cos its the easiest.. but wma is supposed to be comparable or better head to head?
12:11:34LloreanNot in most tests.
12:11:59LloreanI believe WMAPRo was comparable to LAME MP3 and Ogg/Vorbis, but not standard.
12:12:07linuxstbI think everyone would like a WMA decoder in Rockbox (just so we match the list of features in the original firmwares we're trying to replace), but no-one likes it enough to work on it...
12:12:23LloreanYeah, I definitely think it should be there.
12:12:24linuxstb(as no-one actually uses it)
12:12:32JdGordonthere is a start in the tracker tho...
12:12:52Juddyyeah. i mean just for convenience it mite be worth while
12:13:03Juddyi only have a few albums in wma
12:13:10linuxstbThat's now very out of date wrt ffmpeg - if I was to work on it, I would start again with the current ffmpeg sources.
12:13:43MonkeyTamerLlorean: that one about "having a clue" cracked me up
12:14:01LloreanMonkeyTamer: I was just paraphrasing someone else. LinusN I believe.
12:14:11linuxstbIt would also be a nice thing to get WMA playing on ipods...
12:14:13Lloreanlinuxstb: WMA support would mean that on the H100 series at least, the last OF feature has been matched.
12:14:15MonkeyTamerthat's a great quote nonetheless
12:16:10Juddyso what is the best format out there
12:16:22Juddysay Head to Head 192kb/s encoding?
12:16:30Juddywhat would u guys/girls go for?
12:17:09LloreanJuddy: Everyone has different preferences depending on whether they care about space, or sound quality, or what ratio between those.
12:17:16LloreanYour best best is just to try different formats blind and see which you like.
12:17:49MonkeyTamerI know Big_Mac's recommendation would be APE :p
12:18:05JdGordonwhy oh why wasnt the eq settings all put in an array? it would make converting that menu soo much easier :'(
12:18:34Juddyllorean what would u choose then?
12:21:12LloreanJuddy: Depends on which player I'm putting it on. I use FLAC for a lot of stuff on my gigabeat just because outside of stuff that's precompressed by the artist, I don't have that much so I can fit all of it.
12:21:34LloreanOn the Nano I tend to use Vorbis at the highest Q I can and still fit all of what I'm putting on it.
12:21:50LloreanWhich is overkill, but since I have no reason _not_ to overkill, I may as well
12:22:13linuxstbJuddy: Musepack seems well-respected around that bitrate I think.
12:22:43Juddyand it plays fine in rockbox?
12:22:51linuxstbVery well afaik.
12:22:58nlsJuddy: The only good way to decide which format to use and which bitrate is to do your own tests, and choos what you liek the most and is supported in rockbox of course ,-)
12:23:01Juddygood battery?
12:23:17LloreanJuddy: Good enough for me, as I said, it depends on your needs. Test for yourself.
12:23:42LloreanMusepack is good quality vs decode speed though, I believe.
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12:24:05Juddyyeah. but it takes soo much time . i just want as little waist of space but at the same time have the audio at the highest quality distinguishable by my ear
12:24:28LloreanJuddy: Then test which is the highest distinguishable by your ear.
12:24:32linuxstbThat's one reason I use FLAC - I'm too lazy to test....
12:24:33LloreanNone of us can tell you THAT one for sure.
12:25:12Juddyill have to find some test files somewhere maybe. anyone know of a site with lots of samples in different bit rates and encoding?
12:25:26safetydanJdGordon, does the config system support arrays?
12:25:42JdGordonit shuold be able to
12:26:13LloreanJuddy: Most people encode their own, as which sounds best may vary depending on what genre you listen to and such.
12:27:06safetydanJdGordon, well when I wrote that I didn't see any examples of array settings. The settings struct is sort of treated as an away by the dsp code though.
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12:28:32JdGordonactuaslly.. im not so sure it would help..
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12:29:40safetydananyone see anything wrong with doing something like this?
12:30:03safetydanit would mean the cliplight setting in a config file isn't shareable between targets that do/don't support cliplight
12:30:08safetydansaves a few bytes though
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12:35:09*linuxstb has an idea for the root menu - context-menus on each item. e.g. a long-press on SELECT/NAVI on "Database" would take you to the database settings, long-press on Recording takes you to the recording settings etc.
12:35:24LloreanI like that.
12:35:49LloreanShortcuts to some of the slightly deeper menus, that and it fits the 'context menu' scheme.
12:36:23JdGordonlinuxstb: hmm.... it should be sort of easy to do... but a pain.. and can wait untill after the initial commit :)
12:36:32linuxstbYes, please don't try to do it now...
12:37:19JdGordonWell, I want to add in custom menus, so contexts could be handled through that, so we barely have to add extra code..
12:37:34barrywardellJdGordon: Do I just need to decide on ACTION_MENU_WPS when fixing my keymaps for your patch?
12:37:36linuxstbWhat do you mean by "custom" ? user-configurable?
12:37:59JdGordonbarrywardell: yes, in the main_menu context
12:38:15JdGordonlinuxstb: yeah, user configurable shortcuts to any accessable menu item
12:38:51JdGordonone of the nice (?) benefits of the new menu code, we can do this really easily
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12:45:57*JdGordon does a slightly nicer way of changing the wps text
12:47:31linuxstbWhat wps text?
12:48:08JdGordonthe wps item in the root menu I mean
12:48:23JdGordonI need to add a proper way to do this anyway for the eq menus...
12:48:44linuxstbIf the general view is that LEFT shouldn't cancel in settings, then PLAY gets my vote for cancel on the ipods. Leave MENU as the global shortcut back to the root menu.
12:49:13*Llorean will accept that happily.
12:49:18ShaidI think using play as a cancel is a bit... odd.
12:49:21Shaidbut that's just my opinion.
12:49:29linuxstbI agree, but it's the only button left...
12:49:38linuxstbAlso, CANCEL is a rare action.
12:49:47linuxstb(in the settings screens)
12:50:11JdGordonok, that sounds good
12:51:35LloreanYou should never *need* to cancel anyway. At best it's just if you don't want to scroll back to the prior option.
12:51:47LloreanBut when you hit Menu, it should *cancel* as well as banishing the menu, I think
12:51:56ShaidI agree.
12:52:11PaulJamLittle question: is the main menu title a language string? i can't find it in the english.lang
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12:53:22linuxstbLlorean: I'm now not convinced about my suggestion... Maybe MENU should be cancel, meaning you have to leave the settings screen first, and then press MENU to go back to the root menu...
12:53:49linuxstbIt means the MENU button does two different things, but for one of them you get a splash, so you know what's happened.
12:53:51Lloreanlinuxstb: I did suggest that a while ago, but nobody said anything in response to it. I'm definitely in favour of that, but was willing to settle for Play
12:54:04ShaidI like that idea.
12:54:16linuxstbOK, looks like I outvoted myself.
12:54:19Shaidit makes sense from a usability standpoin
12:54:31Shaidwhereas play as cancel doesn't 'flow' usability wise
12:54:42LloreanWell, Menu as Cancel makes almost as little sense really.
12:54:59LloreanBut since the Apple firmware already did it, and our previous implementation already did it, it begins to make more sense as already being habit.
12:55:00linuxstbYes, but it's also "back" in the apple firmware, so there's a little continuity there.
12:55:19ShaidI always think of it as the back button anyway
12:55:36linuxstbI wonder why Apple didn't just call it BACK...
12:55:53linuxstbAlthough I'm glad they didn't.
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12:57:16barrywardellJdGordon: what was decided about the left from root issue?
12:57:33linuxstbleft from the browser roots goes back to the root menu.
12:57:44linuxstbleft in the root menu does nothing.
12:57:51linuxstb(at least, that's the current implementation)
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12:58:31barrywardellOK, because on the H10 it currently does two things. Going to Files from the root menu, then pressing left brings you back to the root menu
12:58:57barrywardellbut pressing left in the WPS also brings you to the files root. Pressing left then brings you back to the WPS
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12:59:19linuxstbShouldn't left in the WPS be "previous track" ?
12:59:34barrywardellno, there are rewind and ffwd buttons on the H10
13:00:20linuxstbAh. Do you have a "select" button that takes you from the WPS to the file browser?
13:00:57barrywardellwe have rew, ffwd, play, up, down, left, right and power
13:01:23barrywardellso left is mapped to going back to the file browser currently (and in the OF)
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13:01:58linuxstbIs "power" the menu button?
13:02:19JdGordonbarrywardell: I guess you want to map the left button to the usual select button then?
13:02:41JdGordonwoops... log wasnt all the way at the bottom
13:04:42barrywardelllinuxstb: yes, power is menu
13:05:59barrywardellJdGordon: I'm not sure I understand
13:06:29JdGordondont worry... I bassically said what you did 5min ago, but not as nicely
13:06:55barrywardellhaha. ok
13:07:34barrywardellanyway, I think left from the file browser root should always bring me to the root menu. regardless of which screen I entered the file browser from
13:08:03barrywardellI think that would make sense for all targets
13:08:21JdGordonthats what is supposed to happen
13:08:49decayedcellsuppose so, if pressing left goes back through folders in File Browser and Database mode
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13:40:58barrywardellJdGordon: I can reproduce that problem in the H100 sim, so it's not just H10 specific.
13:41:20barrywardellAlso, going to the file browser from the wps seems to go one level too high in the directory structure
13:41:41barrywardellthe one where WPS->Browser, then pressing left brings you back to the WPS
13:42:45linuxstbSame problem on ipod...
13:43:17linuxstb(WPS->Browser, then left at root of browser takes you back to WPS)
13:43:58barrywardellI can even go a level deeper in the browser, then left brings me back to the parent dir, but left again brings me to the wps
13:43:59JdGordonah, line 663 in tree.c.. change that to GO_TO_ROOT
13:44:16JdGordonyou cant go any higher than the dir you enter?
13:44:25JdGordon:'( I thought I go thtat bug
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13:45:20barrywardelleg. I'm playing /artist/song.mp3. going WPS-> browser brings me to /. i can enter and exit /artist fine, but left again brings me back to the WPS
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13:46:09*JdGordon seriously considers rewritng dirbrowse()
13:46:18linuxstbOne thing at a time.... :)
13:46:29JdGordonbut atm im turning eq_menu.c into frankenstiens macro monster!
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13:47:29barrywardellmy other problem is: I'm playing /music/artist/song.mp3. going WPS->browser brings me to /music, rather than /music/artist
13:48:19nlsJdGordon: Can this be closed ?
13:48:25JdGordonyeah, the tree browser was really never meant to be used the way that patch uses it....
13:48:40JdGordonnls: I guess so
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14:05:41barrywardellJdGordon: here's a keymap patch for the H10:
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14:08:10barrywardellJdGordon: and the Sansa:
14:09:09JdGordonthanks, Ill put them in next time I sync it.. probably tomorowo
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14:20:54preglowwhich targets currently don't support bass and treble controls?
14:21:36LloreanI think they show up on the iPods but only appear to adjust volume
14:22:41preglowthey work on my nano
14:22:56preglowi seem to remember they're shit, but they do work
14:24:10nlspreglow: I think x5
14:24:13preglowhaha, but now that i listen to them, i can see how people think they only adjust volume
14:24:42ShaidThey worked on my 4th gen
14:25:03barrywardellpreglow: H10 has them show up, but they do nothing
14:25:22preglowfairly useless indeed
14:25:34preglowperhaps we'll want to use the software controls on some of the ipods as well, then
14:26:01preglownls: that's what it looks like from the code, yes, i just for some reason thought ipod5g didn't have it either
14:26:58barrywardelltargets based on the wm8731 and wm8758 don't have working versions
14:27:28barrywardelltargets based on wm8975 has some sort of bass/treble control in hardware
14:27:39nlspreglow: isn't the hardware eq on 5g jus a bass/treble thing as only the shelf filters work
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14:28:33preglownls: no idea
14:29:27Lloreannls: I think the hardware EQ is _supposed_ to do more than just shelf filters, but only they're working right so far.
14:30:11preglowwell, from the nearest matching datasheet, yes
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14:33:37*JdGordon just might kill anyone who commits to eq_menu.c before me....
14:36:33preglowi am digging around in the menu code now, but not that one
14:36:49dan_alinuxstb: Are you around?
14:38:35preglowgah, this firmware/apps thing is starting to rot away
14:41:15JdGordonit is?
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14:46:20amiconnlinuxstb: The NUMBER_OF_PARTICLES / NUMBER_OF_BLOCKS mixup is surely a bug, but fixing that doesn't fix the crash on archos
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14:46:56amiconnI'm just going to utilise the memory guard for finding which part of the code overwrites the _xlcd_rb pointer in ram
14:47:06preglowthe whole dsp/eq layer might be better off being moved to firmware
14:47:56preglowright now in swcodec platforms, some sound settings need to be handled in firmware/sound.c, some in apps/dsp.c
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14:52:11preglowall apps code can just access global_settings without much thought, yes? we seem to be mirroring some settings here and there
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14:55:05Lloreandan_a: Is there something about the Sansa that just makes it attract people who like to try absolutely random things?
14:55:25dan_aLlorean: Yes - it looks really cool!
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14:56:28dan_a(I think we ought to have my last step from that thread in every "how to recover from your own stupidity" document)
14:57:27dan_aAlthough it won't help, because these people don't read instructions
14:58:05LloreanWith the Sansa users I frequently find myself wondering what they have read, because there's often a mix of right things and absolutely crazy things
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15:03:16dan_aI think they get creative when things aren't spelled out in detail. Silly people.
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15:04:20Lloreandan_a: The problem I've experienced seems to be a case of "If they don't tell me not to do it, maybe I'm supposed to" rather than the logical "If it doesn't say to do it, I'm not supposed to do it"
15:04:46amiconnPaprica: r u there?
15:04:48LloreanThere are always questions asking if we left out something, under the assumption that there must be more.
15:05:04LloreanLike the ever-common "Where do I put my music" question. They assume we just forgot to tell them.
15:06:47SoapLlorean: any opinion on the iPod Foolproof Restoration?
15:07:29LloreanSoap: I'm really not sure. Is the wiki page linked in the thread itself?
15:07:37*amiconn thinks he has found the chopper bug
15:07:52amiconnIt's wrong for all targets
15:08:01SoapI started making the wiki page while I was under the impression the document was something worth preserving.
15:08:14SoapThe more I read and edited the document, the less value I saw in it.
15:08:29LloreanJust lock the thread and let it sink away.
15:08:41SoapSo I finished what I started, but only because I'm compulsive that way.
15:09:10LloreanPost to the thread with a post saying "Static information goes in the wiki, such as here" with a link to your document, and lock it, I suppose.
15:09:19SoapThe problem I see with the wiki page is that it implies the document is more official and legitimate.
15:10:11SoapI don't understand at all why it encourages a reformat to fix problems. I guess the issue I have is I don't understand /what/ problems it is supposed to fix.
15:10:28LloreanMaybe ask in the thread?
15:11:03SoapAnd it encourages the purchace of a wall charger if you /might/ have a dead battery, as if USB charging isn't equally valid.
15:11:26SoapYea, I think maybe asking him head-on is the right way.
15:12:16LloreanJust point out the bits you don't see the purpose of, and ask for specific situations where those become necessary? It does look a bit overcomplicated.
15:13:05linuxstbamiconn: I've been looking at chopper a little, and if you comment out the calls to xlcd_draw_triangle, then it doesn't crash...
15:13:19LloreanBack when I was doing early bootloader experiments, where I'd occasionally typo the DD (or the many times I screwed up the formatting while trying to resize partitions to try out iPL support) the most I ever needed to do was use windows format to reformat the ipod before restoring.
15:13:34amiconnlinuxstb: Yes, but xlcd_filltriangle() is not the culprit
15:13:47amiconnI found the problem
15:13:55linuxstbGood :)
15:14:28linuxstbI guess that will also fix the crashes that happen when saving the configfile at the end of the game as well.
15:14:31dan_alinuxstb: Mind if I msg you about something?
15:14:41linuxstbYou never need to ask...
15:14:52amiconnchopper_load() first calls chopClearTerrain(), and then chopAddTerrainNode() in a loop
15:15:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:15:31amiconnBut: chopClearTerrain() sets the node count to -1 (!), so the first call to chopAddTerrainNode() writes out of bounds...
15:15:51amiconn...and in the case of archos, that overwrites the xlcd lib's rb pointer
15:16:11amiconnFound that by using a slightly adapted memory guard :)
15:17:32amiconnNow chooper runs, but isn't really playble
15:17:41amiconnToo fast, and too large heli
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15:19:08*preglow summons Lear
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15:24:30hannohi, I'm writing an article for a german magazine and I'd like to mention rockbox
15:24:47hannoare there any free-to-use/press-fotos of a device running rockbox?
15:26:28hannoand another question: how's video support on rockbox and is there support for theora?
15:26:44preglowvideo support is in its early stages, and the only format we support is mpeg/mpeg2
15:27:04hannook, thanks, so that's a "no" for my article ;-)
15:27:10hanno(it's about patent-free codecs)
15:27:13amiconn...and for the old devices, there is rvf
15:27:19preglowas for press quality photos, i don't know
15:27:36dan_ahanno: I'm not sure whether there are photos, but there are screenshots at
15:27:44hannoit's not about quality, it's more about "can I just take the shots from the page"?
15:27:53hannoor will anyone sue me if I do? ;-)
15:28:01preglowhaha, i think you're in the clear
15:28:17preglowbut it depends where you find it, of course
15:28:37preglowamiconn: i've got some quick and dirty code here that does bass/treble in software now. want to test?
15:30:01dan_ahanno: We've had a few articles recently which mentioned Rockbox but were very inaccurate. We would appreciate being able to check what you've said before it's published if at all possible
15:31:11preglowhanno: at least we support a fair amount of patent free audio codecs, heh
15:31:34hannodan_a, ok, but that has do be fast ;-)
15:31:40preglowafaik, flac, musepack, wavpack and ogg vorbis are all patent free
15:31:44hannoanyone in your team speaking german who wanna check back?
15:32:34hannomusepack seems to be derived from mpeg and thus most probably patented?
15:33:25hannoI have to check that back
15:33:25PaulJami have a question about the custom keyboard layouts: in the virtual keyboard sometimes the statusbar is shown and sometimes not. this results in a different amount of lines that are shown, so that one line that should be on the second page is shown on the first page when the statusbar is not shown. is there a way to solve this?
15:33:30hannoit's only a very short part about rockbox
15:34:36preglowhanno: i think they at the very least claim it is no longer contains patented algorithms, but i don't know what those are in the first place
15:34:41preglowwhat it does is pretty generic
15:34:56preglowgood old well known dsp stuff
15:35:02dan_ahanno: As long as you're not telling anyone how to install it there probably won't be any problem with inaccuracy
15:35:12hannodan_a, ok, no, I won't do that
15:35:32hannoIt's just a short mentioning that it's a project to create free software firmware and that it supports vorbis and flac
15:36:37dan_aNot much room to go wrong there, then!
15:39:37SoapLlorean: I posted my reply to him with questions. Any comments by you?
15:40:55SirFunkrockbox can't play .m4a files, right?
15:41:30preglowit can
15:41:34preglowmost of them
15:41:35SirFunkoh itcan
15:41:40SirFunkthe manual doesn't say it can :-P
15:41:42preglownot our best codec, but it does work ok
15:41:43SirFunki'll have to test it out
15:41:48preglowit's a bit of a work in progress
15:42:05SirFunkmy stupid old bass teacher put all of these recordings online in .m4a
15:42:25SoapSirFunk: if your .m4a files are DRM laden, Rockbox will never be able to play them.
15:42:44SoapNevermind, those should be fine (at least on that front)
15:43:07SirFunkmaybe i shoudl conver them to .ogg or something
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15:53:27dan_alinuxstb: FYI, I've just tested "ipodpatcher -a" on the 3G - it upgraded correctly, and booting into the OF works too. I've still got no idea where to start with the PP5020 greyscale problem
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15:56:50w1ll14m_morning all
16:00:51linuxstbamiconn: I'm not 100% happy with the approach, but it seems to work - I scaled chopper on the Archos LCDs by pretending the screen was 224x128, and then halving all the parameters to the drawing functions. There seem to be too many hard-coded values to not do it that way.
16:01:00linuxstbI can give you a patch if you want to see how it looks.
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16:14:38preglowamiconn: just put a "#define HAVE_SW_TONE_CONTROLS" in your config-*.h file of choice and it should work, prescaling is currently not handled
16:15:08preglowamiconn: very preliminary, just for testing
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16:20:01linuxstbdan_a: (using the "known-good" ipod_fw/ipodpatcher install method) and the current SVN bootloader, have you tried putting a "return (void*)DRAM_START;" at the very top of bootloader/ipod.c ? i.e. before any of the Rockbox kernel code is run? If that works, you could try to isolate which kernel initialisation breaks it.
16:22:06linuxstbSirFunk: "m4a" isn't a codec. AAC and Apple Lossless are the codecs, and they both live in m4a containers. That's probably why the manual doesn't mention m4a.
16:22:37dan_alinuxstb: I've got to go to work now, but I'll try that when I get back
16:23:21SirFunklinuxstb: ahh yeah, true
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16:46:22SoapHmm, 30GB 5th generation iPod on Craigslist for $100. Dead battery. Suspicious?
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17:12:09preglowi wonder what the rationale behind arm's accumulate instructions not affecting the overflow flag is
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18:15:45SoapWith a September 9th Rockbox build runtime was 50.5% of stock firmware.
18:16:05linuxstbdrum roll......
18:16:23SoapWith a Feb 4th, 2007 build, runtime was 52% of stock firmware
18:16:47linuxstbSo within the margin of error I would guess?
18:16:54linuxstbi.e. no change.
18:17:16SoapI think the numbers are significant as every test was repeated multiple times.
18:17:22linuxstbWhich format(s)?
18:17:46SoapMP3 - I made the conditions as consistant between firmwares as possible.
18:18:17Soap55% of stock when using the KoCOP and 64MB buffer.
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18:18:54Soapand conditions, down to charging pratices, were 100% the same between builds.
18:19:31dan_aI suspect we may be able to improve things with the 64MB patch
18:20:06Soapas it stands now, very little improvement with 64MB buffer, and that is under conditions perfect for its usage.
18:20:53dan_aI suspect that only half of the memory is being cached - I'm going to check the patch and find out
18:21:13linuxstbThat's possible. IIRC, it just adjusts the remapping registers.
18:21:18SoapI fear use of it in real-world situations will only worsen battery life, for if you skip, add, or change playlists you will be wasting _more_ disk spinup.
18:21:45linuxstbThat's very true. People could always use the 32MB build...
18:22:19dan_aSearch on Flyspray seems to be broken in Konqueror - does anyone know the task number for the 64MB patch?
18:22:24linuxstbOr I guess it could be an option in some way. ...
18:22:28Soapmy tests were simply a repeated 80MB album, 100% efficient usage of buffer, and only marginal battery life improvement.
18:22:42preglowi wonder what we're doign wrong...
18:22:54linuxstbThat's a big question...
18:23:40linuxstbSoap: How many times does the disk spin up during your tests? i.e. what was the runtime, and how long in minutes is your 80MB album?
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18:24:15linuxstbAll the 64MB patch will be doing is halving the number of spin-ups. Which may not be very many anyway.
18:24:21kerbanyone know of an easy way to recode filenames that are a bit fucked but works on ext3 so I can copy them to fat32?
18:24:36odb|fide1_hello. is there any plan to implement a video palyer function into rockbox ? i.e. for ipods ?
18:24:50linuxstbodb|fide1_: Apart from the one that's there?
18:24:58Soaplinuxstb: 58:15 in length.
18:25:04odb|fide1_oh, did i really missed that part ?
18:25:24odb|fide1_linuxstb: since which release ?
18:25:25Soap11h45 mins runtime. It was the disk spinup which killed it in the end.
18:25:28linuxstbodb|fide1_: It's not finished, but you can read about its progress here -
18:25:40linuxstbodb|fide1_: It's been included in Rockbox for about 5 months now...
18:25:55odb|fide1_ok, thank you very much, gonna test it
18:26:16Soap12 disk accesses it looks like.
18:27:29Soapyea, the math works out - 12 accesses, #13 killing the drive = 11h38 minutes, and I round to the 15 min mark.
18:27:30dan_aSoap: Can you try editing firmware/system.c and changeing the line "outl(0x3fc0, 0xf000f044);" to "outl(0x7f80, 0xf000f044);"? I think (guess) that that will tell the processor to cache all the SDRAM.
18:27:48odb|fide1_linuxstb: should it be listed inside plugins ?
18:28:17linuxstbodb|fide1_: No, it's a "viewer" - just select a .mpg file in the file browser to play it. The page I linked to says that.
18:28:31odb|fide1_yeah just seen this part, sorry
18:29:05Soapdan_a: can do - what do you want me to test?
18:29:57dan_aFirst of all, if it boots... and then if it seems to change performance at all
18:30:41Soapconfigure as a 32MB build or as a 64MB build?
18:31:03dan_aI think that none of the audio buffer from 32MB-64MB is being cached - which might make reading and writing slower. Configured as a 64MB build
18:31:10Soapcan do.
18:31:17dan_aThanks :D
18:31:20SoapDo you want full runtime tests?
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18:32:43dan_aI'd be interested to see if it changes things, but you can hardly ever get to use your iPod with the number of runtime tests you do on it!
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18:33:03SoapI have little else to offer.
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18:34:16Soapand I'm happy to do it. The lack of properly conducted runtime tests ticks me off.
18:35:35dan_aIf it does improve things, then we've learned a bit more about how the cache controller works
18:36:38linuxstbWe should try and document what we know about the PP chips in some way...
18:37:27dan_aMaybe by updating IPL's wiki
18:37:33Soapso what exactly did you have me double from ~16 to ~32?
18:38:23*linuxstb curses postgresql for refusing to use an index on a 10-million record table...
18:38:32dan_aI think that's the higher limit of the cache, in a unit that isn't bytes
18:39:08dan_alinuxstb: I've been having lots of fun with Postgresql of late - I might be able to help
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18:47:05preglowhrm, sometimes my nano just gets stuck on the usb logo with a disk activity icon at the top right
18:47:57amiconnSame on mini2g
18:48:17amiconnOne thread doesn't signal it's ready for usb
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18:49:47Dunkelschubender, your game was great
18:50:30preglowamiconn: did you get the message about the patch?
18:50:50linuxstbamiconn: And my chopper patch...
18:50:51amiconnYes, but I didn't test it yet
18:51:29amiconnThe usb problem seems to be a race condition. Some builds do it more often than others
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18:52:22linuxstbI have seen the usb issue in the past, but not recently (on my Color).
18:52:38preglowhm, and it's ipod only?
18:52:45amiconnI had it yesterday on my mini. Made a new build, and it vanished...
18:53:02linuxstbI _may_ have seen it on my h140...
18:54:00preglowi had the problem on h120 before, but i think it was fixed there
18:55:03preglowamiconn: btw, i the prescale stuff will be weird with software treble/bass boost, the prescale will be somewhat lagged thanks to the pcmbuf latency, while the hardware postscale will be instantaneous...
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19:10:39Nico_Pguys, any comments on FS #6505 (slider progressbar) ? I'm thinking about committing it
19:10:49Nico_Pit adds 420 bytes to the gigabeat build
19:11:31linuxstbpreglow: Spotted the latest flyspray patch?
19:12:07tomalHey, I posted a patch with a smaller dct32 routine for mpa codec on ARM. It helps a lot on iFP. I wonder if it helps on other ARM targets.
19:12:28linuxstbHow big is the IFP's cache?
19:12:35tomalIt's FS #6670
19:12:39tomallinuxstb: 8kB
19:12:56linuxstbIs that unified code and data?
19:13:01tomalBut the difference is SRAM (external RAM) which is very slow on iFP
19:13:06tomallinuxstb: yes, unified
19:13:14linuxstbSame (in theory) as the PP cache then.
19:14:09tomalThe tradeoff is that my routine executes more instructions, but causes less memory activity
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19:14:36tomalSo gain depends on relative speed of external RAM
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19:15:09tickHe-he. I think there's some rationale in the idea about the feature matrix (see today's discussion of #if vs. #ifdef). We could have a text/xml/OpenOffice/whatever file with a feature table. Lines would be features, columns would be platforms. From that file, we could automatically generate the config files for the platforms and also an HTML page for the wiki.
19:15:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:15:22tickWe'd then have the 'feature space' well documented. Each platform is a point in that space. If a new platform is adopted to rockbox, its 'coordinates' in the feature space must be defined. If the new platform has a feature that's currently not present, we'll extend the space dimension. All existing platfroms would then have to be defined wrt that new dimension.
19:15:30tickThat would probably make neccesary to split the config files into the automatically generated and manually edited ones.
19:15:48preglowooh, new dct32
19:17:15amiconnNico_P: We had a slider progress bar once. It was removed as it was deemed a useless option
19:17:53Nico_Pamiconn: ah. actually i kinda agree but it was asked for on the forums and i had nothing to do :)
19:18:53linuxstbtomal: Have you measured how much faster your dct32 is?
19:19:17Nico_Pamiconn: btw, have you gotten round to testing cues on your archos player(s) ?
19:19:37amiconnI don't have any mp3+cue
19:19:37Nico_Pby player i meant DAP, not the specific model
19:19:52linuxstbNico_P: I should be able to do that.
19:19:59tickAny judgements about the feature matrix? Or is it an overkill?
19:20:05Nico_Pyou want me to put some on a wabspace ?
19:20:51Nico_Plinuxstb: that would be great
19:20:52amiconntomal: I hope the removal of sectioned compilation helped a bit getting size down on iFP as well...
19:21:58midgeyi dont think the bitmap slider bar is a useless option. it may be a bit useless on non-color targets though
19:22:32amiconnbitmap progress bar != slider
19:22:34tomalamiconn: I got rid of it much earlier. See arm7tdmicc in tools/configure and the short option.
19:22:59Nico_Pmidgey: the slider is actually a moving bitmap
19:23:11midgeyyah, im aware
19:23:21midgeysimilar to the stock h300 firmware correct?
19:23:36SoapNico_P: can it move (progress) in the Y, or only in the X?
19:23:41amiconntomal: Hmm, how do you handle calls to iram then? Or don't you use any iram on iFP?
19:23:59Nico_PSoap: only in the X... it uses the %pb tag just like regular progressbars
19:25:58tomallinuxstb: On the player it still doesn't work in realtime, but there are less dropouts clearly. I have some profiling in my emulator, though. While decoding 5s of audio, dct32 uses now 36M cycles vs 23M earlier (this does not include memory wait states), number of SRAM accesses dropped from 7.5M in dct32 and synth_full to 2.5M.
19:26:07 Part tick ("talk back tomorrow. Please tell me your opinion about the feature matrix.")
19:26:19amiconntomal: Btw, what you mean are short vs. long calls (my question still holds regarding that); what I mean was -ffucntion-sections
19:26:37tomalamiconn: I map IRAM and SRAM close to each other.
19:27:10amiconnAh ok, nice feature of the iFP core then
19:27:18amiconnOn ipods this won't be possible
19:27:28tomalamiconn: I suppose I didn't use them neither
19:27:46tomalamiconn: (function-sections, that is)
19:28:20amiconnAh, yes
19:28:31*amiconn checked his own diff,
19:28:56*amiconn didn't even notice the 'short' option when doing this
19:30:55Soapdan_a: On first go with your suggested changes to system.c - Playback stutters very badly, even after the drive stops spinning. This test was also with KoCOP#8.
19:31:43dan_aSoap: OK - that means I'm mistaken about what that line does - it sounds like the cache didn't start working at all.
19:34:33dan_aI wouldn't bother with the runtime test then.
19:34:59Soapyea, I wasn't going to as it is unusable in its current state. ;)
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19:37:52dan_aDoes anyone know of a simple tutorial on creating linker files? I want to make some changes to the Rockbox one for dual core support, but just looking at it makes my head spin!
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19:58:33robbmothertrucker so many people into rockbox??
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19:59:10dan_arobb: Many of them don't say much
19:59:22dan_aw1ll14m: Are you around?
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20:02:12robbdan_a as with most irc :)
20:02:30robbi just bought a 604 wifi
20:02:34robbquite impressed so far
20:02:42robbbut it cannot multitask :(
20:02:51robband the network seems to drop off a lot
20:04:43dan_aThey look interesting - any idea what kind of processor they have?
20:04:50robbno clue
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20:33:58WinchesterFor a plug-in to actually work..... apart from the coding and putting it in SOURCES..... what else needs to be done? O_o
20:34:30 Quit Ribs ("eh eh ehhhh!")
20:34:34preglowWinchester: nothing?
20:34:42Winchesteroh >.>
20:35:00Winchesterbut... but.... it's not showing up anywhere
20:36:26preglowtarget? sim?
20:36:27Winchesterand.... it seems to have compiled itself in apps rather than plugins
20:37:01Winchesteroh..... nvrm.... that's where I put it..... sorry
20:38:58perl|perlhow many unique hits does get per day
20:39:22preglowwouldn't know
20:41:30 Quit amiconn (" HydraIRC -> <- IRC for those that like to be different")
20:47:25Winchesterhmm..... which mp3 player rockbox supports has the fastest processor?
20:47:44Soapno contest.
20:48:17Winchesterah ok
20:48:52Soapwhat is the plugin you have written?
20:48:57preglowso, what've you got that you were hoping to win? :>
20:49:39WinchesterSoap: ah nvrm that...... just bored and felt like writting something useless.
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20:50:06Winchesterpreglow: lol..... nuh my ipod is kind of old and a brick now.... so was wondering what to get
20:50:25Winchesterwas hoping some ipod would be the fastest since ipodlinux is good to have
20:51:34DogBoywhat's the difference
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20:51:55WinchesterWhat's the difference where? O_o
20:52:23DogBoyfastest means what
20:52:31DogBoyas long as it works
20:52:54Winchesterplanning for the future..... if there's a NES emulator
20:53:37preglowipod certainly isn't the fastest arch
20:53:46DogBoywhich one is going to have the flux capacitor
20:53:51preglowand dual core to further complicate stuff
20:54:40Winchesterdual core complicates stuff?
20:54:45Winchesterok stupid question, ignore that
20:54:48preglowas opposed to having just one core? hell yes
20:55:01preglowwe haven't even bloody made it work properly yet, and we've been doing ipod for a while now
20:55:07Winchester...... it sounds more swazzy though >.>
20:55:08preglowthough the lack of docs does complicate stuff, of course
20:56:10Winchesterwhen you compile the sim version..... does it put the files in the archos folder or do you have to make zip then put them there?
20:56:15 Quit wooo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:56:46linuxstb"make install" does it for you
20:57:02Winchesterthere's a make install now?
20:57:09linuxstbAlways has been - for the sim.
20:57:17Winchesteris there make install for...... ah ok
20:57:24 Quit barrywardell (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
20:57:40desowinis there uninstall as well ?
20:57:53Winchesterwell then...... this was useless: ../tools/configure && make && make fullzip && unzip -d archos && ./rockboxui
20:58:27linuxstbdesowin: "make help"
21:04:01Winchesterdamn $500 for the gigabeat.......
21:04:14Dunkelschubwhere are you looking?
21:05:10Winchesterah I meant $AUS
21:05:20Winchestermy bad
21:06:08Winchesterand.... ebay doesn't seem to have many of them either day =(
21:10:28preglowthe ui feels kind of sluggish to me even with the cop patch
21:10:33preglowwhy is that so? :>
21:11:28Soapmore sluggish than it used to?
21:11:35Lloreanpreglow: Try turning on the EQ, dithering, and crossfeed, it'll get more sluggish.
21:11:39dan_apreglow: Could something be messed up with the patch? Does #8 work any better?
21:13:28preglowdan_a: i'll test later
21:13:42preglowLlorean: should that surprise me? :)
21:14:01Lloreanpreglow: Well, shouldn't that not happen with Cop?
21:14:01Soapany harm in the compile warning "menus/main_menu.c:56: warning: 'rocks' defined but not used"? (root menu patch)
21:14:13preglowLlorean: audio is still on the main cpu, afaik
21:14:27preglowhmm, but dsp is in the codec thread, yes
21:14:32LloreanThat's what I was told.
21:14:46dan_aThere seems to be something lockstepping the codec and audio threads
21:15:16dan_aOr there's some other problem...
21:15:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:15:28preglowtomal: i'm gonna give your patch a spin on ipod now
21:15:44tomaltomal: ok
21:16:14Soapdsp is in the codec thread? so does the audio thread do nothing more than feed the PCM data from buffer to the DAC?
21:16:51dan_aThings should get a bit better with the COP patch when I get a region of uncached SDRAM instead of using IRAM. (I think - although they might get worse)
21:17:24preglowdan_a: uncached sdram? how?
21:17:34preglowhave we figured out how to config the cache yet?
21:19:14dan_aNo, but the PP5XXX's are... erm... interesting in some of the things they do. Memory is aliased to various different locations, but the cache controller doesn't know that
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21:20:29DunkelschubWinchester was looking for one
21:20:35dan_aSo if you read from 0x4000000, you are reading an uncached copy of 0x0
21:20:47Winchesterah thanks
21:20:47linuxstbdan_a: Have you tested that theory yet?
21:20:59dan_alinuxstb: I have. It worked :D
21:21:28perl|perlon aus ebay there're good chances to get gigabeat X
21:21:29dan_aNow I just need to explain to the linker what I'm trying to do, and all will be well
21:21:30preglowdan_a: yeah, i've noticed that aliasing is rampant on pps
21:21:47perl|perlX30 were around $180-200 US
21:21:50preglowso it just bypasses the cache?
21:22:22linuxstbdan_a: Persuading the linker of that tactic doesn't sound fun...
21:22:33dan_apreglow: It does
21:22:51dan_alinuxstb: Especially when this is my first real visit to linker script land
21:24:29preglowtomal: no visible difference that i can see
21:24:38preglow320 kbps still gives me around 50% boost
21:25:08preglowdan_a: but why should that boost anything?
21:25:17preglowiram sounds perfectly suited to what you're doing
21:25:53tomalpreglow: did you try moving the routine to IRAM? Is there that much space?
21:26:04preglowtomal: i'll tyr
21:26:06preglowtry too
21:27:43dan_apreglow: It's data which wasn't in IRAM to start with, so stealing some of the codec buffer (IIUC), so I thought having it in SDRAM should be more appropriate. When I don't understand things properly, I test to see what works best ;)
21:29:02preglowbtw, how's pre-4g support doing?
21:29:06preglowit doesn't seem to see much action
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21:30:14dan_aGetting the COP working seemed to be the easiest way to get a performance boost - so this is pre-4G support!
21:30:45preglowi'm more just wondering how it's doing right now
21:31:10preglowtomal: performance actually seems to have gotten worse...
21:31:23preglowwith iram, that is
21:31:47preglowi will never understand how this portalplayer crap works
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21:32:26dan_aAt the moment, it's a bit flakey, but that seems to be because of frequency scaling. I might disable that. I also need to have a look at why being in the WPS hurts playback so much
21:32:47tomalpreglow: interesting. Anyway, seems that SDRAM on Ipod is fast enough so that size of dct32 doesn't matter much.
21:32:55tomalpreglow: thanks for testing
21:32:59preglowtomal: np
21:33:30preglowdan_a: because the screen is being updated all the time?
21:36:48dan_apreglow: Probably, but it happens even on static WPSs (I've tried just displaying the artist name.) Maybe we could put some kind of callback system in so the screen only gets updated when something has changed?
21:37:07preglowdan_a: currently the wps is updated all the time, afaik
21:37:27preglowbut that does sound weird
21:37:42preglowi don't know squat about the wps stuff, so wouldn't know anyway
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21:41:52Soapwhoa, interesting numbers from "the-winch" in
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21:43:41*petur likes the post of Febs right above that. Short and simple
21:43:44psychoid1work with that
21:43:50psychoid1ipod red special edition
21:44:01psychoid1Laughs Out Loud
21:44:02Soapthat is a second generation nano.
21:44:09psychoid1wen it gonna wok
21:44:57Soapwhen someone cracks the Apple encryption (Nano 2nd gen is first iPod to have such encrypted firmware), figures out what chips are used, writes drivers for said chips.
21:45:32 Quit fasmaie (Remote closed the connection)
21:45:52SoapWhat the_winch's numbers suggest is that turning off hardware might take rockbox on the ipod from ~50% runtime to ~85%
21:45:52psychoid1cos the other day
21:45:57psychoid1i updated my ipod
21:46:01psychoid1and the screen light
21:46:04psychoid1has gone brighter
21:46:17SoapCan't speak as to that psychoid1.
21:46:59LloreanSoap: It does suggest that boosting isn't the primary cause. Double the CPU speed is ~34% more power drain.
21:47:26Lloreanpsychoid1: This is not just an iPod channel. It's specifically about Rockbox.
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21:48:29SoapLet's start poking values into unknown registers! ;)
21:49:21WinchesterHey, since uClinux was ported to the ipod..... has it not been ported to other mp3 players because of technical limitations or because nobody cares?
21:49:57psychoid1i know it isnt
21:50:01 Quit My_Sic ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
21:50:03psychoid1Laughing My Fucking Ass Off
21:50:06psychoid1so why have
21:50:08psychoid1rockbox then
21:50:11psychoid1if u cant talk about
21:50:17 Quit fasmaie (Remote closed the connection)
21:50:22psychoid1even tho i wasnt tbh
21:50:32LloreanWinchester: Primarily because the iPodLinux crew are focused on iPod, and nobody has done it for other hardware because there's really not a strong reason to either way.
21:50:33SoapRockbox neither started as an iPod firmware, not is it primarely used on iPods.
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21:50:49Lloreanpsychoid1: You were complaining about the retail firmware. Honestly, we don't care about the retail firmware, that's not what this channel is for.
21:51:07psychoid1scrap rockbox
21:51:13psychoid1its only firmware
21:51:18psychoid1replacing iPod
21:51:25preglowyou need to press the enter key more seldom
21:51:33Lloreanpsychoid1: Rockbox has 16 supported players. Only 3 are iPods.
21:51:33preglowalso, start making sense
21:51:35Winchester...Why are typing 2 words per line?
21:51:44psychoid1i dont care
21:51:48Dunkelschubit's a haiku
21:51:52psychoid1im not getting into an argument about it with you
21:52:08DBUGEnqueued KICK psychoid1
21:52:10Mode"#rockbox +o preglow " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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21:52:18Kick(#rockbox psychoid1 :preglow) by preglow!n=thomjoha@rockbox/developer/preglow
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21:52:38preglowpsychoid1: please?
21:52:41 Part psychoid1
21:53:53Winchester....all quiet all of the sudden
21:54:00preglowhe obviously snapped
21:54:06preglowand is on his way to jupiter by rocket
21:54:11linuxstbWinchester: Back to your uClinux question, I would say it's because no-one cares... I would hope the world has moved on from the Linux-everywhere mentality...
21:54:12LloreanSoap: Unfortunately identifying which hardware isn't being run properly is probably going to be harder than on the H300.
21:54:43SoapI was only half-joking at the idea of flipping bits until something happens.
21:54:50LloreanWinchester: Frankly, would you rather have your MP3 player become a much better MP3 player, or a fairly bad game playing device that also doesn't really any gain any additional music options?
21:55:13Winchesternuh it was just a random question rather than complaining
21:55:27LloreanSoap: I wasn't talking about that. I was referring to the 'measuring temperatures' solution, since most likely the hardware of problem is on the PP chip, which I don't think we can identify by sight.
21:55:48Soapyea :(
21:56:01LloreanWinchester: I was basically using that as an answer to the question. Most of the people who _could_ port Linux are instead doing something better. ;)
21:56:03preglowbloody annoying
21:56:16linuxstbDisassembly of the many PP502x original firmwares is probably the best approach...
21:56:18LloreanAs a note, has an Alexa ranking of like, 28,000, which is actually rather high.
21:56:21Winchesterwell.... yeah that is more constructive....
21:56:22preglowonly things missing before i'd be willing to call the ipod port decent is fix power issue, usb support and more responsive gui
21:56:42LloreanAnd the power issue and USB support _may_ be the same thing.
21:56:48Soapassuming the_winch was performing the test well (power through the battery connector with battery removed, as opposed to power through dock port).
21:57:03hcsaha, a bugotron in the works
21:57:11hcs(ignore me, wiki viewer)
21:57:42linuxstbBut the 5g is always going to be a poor port due to the broadcom chip - people will expect Rockbox to play video like Apple's firmware...
21:57:50Soapboo hoo
21:58:11dan_ahcs: Crossword clues?
21:58:27DogBoyI don't, I just use the apple os for that
21:58:48DogBoyactually I expect apple os to play musepack
21:58:53linuxstbDogBoy: Put another way, Rockbox can't replace the Apple firmware entirely until it can play videos as well as Apple's firmware...
21:58:56DogBoyI expect it won't happen though
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21:59:32Winchester.... and be a bit better with the battery usage on some devices... >.>
21:59:37Lloreanlinuxstb: Speaking of 'reverse engineering original firmwares' were someone clever in that department could we make use of the existing broadcom image one day (in the absolute broadest of theory-sense)?
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21:59:43CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 4 seconds at the last flood
21:59:43*DogBoy is grateful for what rockbox does do
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22:00:30BigMacWhat does the %wd tag do?
22:00:32linuxstbLlorean: Yes, I would expect that would relatively easy - I'm sure the Apple firmware just treats the broadcom chip as a black box (similar to how we deal with the MAS), and just feeds data to it to decode.
22:01:13BigMacIs there some html file that has an index of all the wps tags and a brief description of what they do?
22:01:22LloreanBigMac: The CustomWps wiki page.
22:01:35 Quit BigMac (Client Quit)
22:01:55 Join Anon6854 [0] (
22:02:04Anon6854can I get that link again
22:02:09 Quit kretender (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:02:14Anon6854I was using the ez wps dictionary file
22:02:25Anon6854but it doesn't contain everything
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22:04:26perl|perlWinchester are you from australia?
22:04:32 Nick perl|perl is now known as pearldiver (
22:05:34pearldiverif youre looking into buying a gigabeat, get an X while you can
22:05:51pearldiveraustralia was the last country to support them
22:05:56Winchesternuh, I am broke right now so that won't be happening any time soon
22:06:03pearldiverand still has plenty around
22:06:22SoapKoCOP#10 does feel _slightly_ more sluggish than #8, but that is completely subjective, no hard numbers.
22:08:05fasmaiepearldiver: Is the X that much better than the F?
22:08:07Soapcould be someing in the last 200 commits also, I haven't used #8 since SVN 12194.
22:08:10dan_aSoap: Thinking about it, I would guess that is because I made the codec thread yield again
22:08:44markunfasmaie: smaller, lighter, bigger screen
22:08:47pearldiverfasmaie not _that_ much, its mainly just the looks
22:08:59Soapdan_a: it is nothing like what #7 did. Nowhere close to that level of slug.
22:09:12markunbut from the runtime tests it looks likes it has a smaller battery too
22:09:14fasmaieOk, not that I can afford one
22:09:38fasmaieNo 20h runtimes, huh?
22:09:51markunmore like 14 I believe
22:09:55Winchesteryeah...... those damn overpriced things
22:10:00markunbut who knows, maybe the battery was old.
22:11:43Soapwe'll never know when people don't duplicate their tests in original firmware. ;)
22:12:30LloreanSoap: The menu icons do slow down the UI a bit.
22:12:39pearldiverLlorean i concur
22:12:43pearldiverthey do
22:12:52Winchesterhey, I asked this before.... but nobody replied... but is it possible to send/receive data with the USB host on the ipod yet?
22:12:59LloreanWinchester: No.
22:13:07Winchesterat all?
22:13:09linuxstbWinchester: Yes, you just need to write a lot of code to do it...
22:13:10LloreanRockbox on iPod has no native USB support at all.
22:13:16fasmaieIsn't there an option to turn the icons off?
22:13:50Winchesterso.... I take it as that isn't in the RB API and won't be any time soon?
22:14:07fasmaieYes, there is an appreciable acceleration with them off
22:14:29LloreanWinchester: Someone needs to code drivers for it.
22:14:43LloreanI really wish that the menu icons and the filetree icons weren't treated as the same thing, honestly.
22:16:04Winchesterok thanks.... and also... has anyone tried to make the ipod sort of 'sleep' like the original firmware does rather than turn it off completly and would there be a point to it?
22:16:05linuxstbLlorean: You mean in the "show icons" setting, or the fact they use the same icons?
22:16:11peturis there a wiki page on how logf builds work?
22:16:30Lloreanlinuxstb: The 'show icons' setting
22:16:49Winchestersince I assume starting it up every time drains more battery than if it just stayed half powered down
22:17:53linuxstbWinchester: A sleep mode would be nice, but I wouldn't say it's a priority compared to all the other missing ipod features.
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22:18:35pearldivermy Tag Priority keeps on resetting all the time
22:18:40linuxstbAnd powering down all the hardware would require more knowledge than is available.
22:18:47peturHow can I get logf on the remote? run configure, dev build, enable logf. Anything more?
22:19:03linuxstbI think that's it.
22:19:19peturhmmm the remote shows its usual screen
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22:19:44linuxstbIt's been a long time since I used it...
22:19:52*petur slaps forehead
22:20:00peturwrong build installed ;)
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22:20:28Winchesterhmm..... and... what about disassembling the original firmware and trying to figure out what it does.... or is it way too messy to figure out what's what in there?
22:20:35preglowi want a wakeup function :/
22:20:40preglowi'm bloody tired of my alarm clock
22:20:53Winchesterget a new alarm clock?
22:21:05peturahhhh much better
22:21:29linuxstbpreglow: That's something we _do_ know how to do on the ipods...
22:22:23preglowlinuxstb: is it now
22:22:47linuxstbSimply set the alarm in the pcf, and enable "wakeup on alarm" when we suspend.
22:22:52preglowlinuxstb: just a simple pcf wakeup and resume on start? :)
22:23:12linuxstbpcf50605 power management chip.
22:23:13preglowchip with the rtc on it
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22:23:34preglowlinuxstb: by suspend you mean switch off, yes?
22:23:35linuxstbAlmost identical to the pcf50606, which has a public datasheet.
22:23:42linuxstbpreglow: yes.
22:23:50preglowi don't really see what we do as suspending, heh
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22:24:49saratogathose PP power use tests are interesting
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22:25:06saratogalets hope Toni gets that PP emulator working soon so we can see what the sansa writes to
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22:32:08linuxstbpreglow: I think that's just what it's called in the pcf datasheet...
22:32:31linuxstbBecause the pcf itself is suspended...
22:38:11Winchesterso is the wake up thing possible but not yet made or is there a patch or something?
22:38:24preglowjust not yet made
22:38:42Winchesterah ok
22:38:59Winchesteryes that would be a good feature to have
22:40:01preglowoh, indeed
22:40:05preglowperhaps i'll have a look at it...
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22:42:11LloreanOn a slightly related note, would it be possible to have an option for Resume to not seek to the resume point in-file, but resume at the start?
22:42:32preglowwhy'd you want that?
22:42:33Soapfeature bloat! ;)
22:42:46LloreanIf I used my Nano as an alarm, I don't use it much for normal listening anyway.
22:42:59preglowi'd just rewind it...
22:43:10LloreanI suppose that's fair.
22:43:12preglowbut yes, that does indeed sound like a bonafide feature bloat candidate
22:43:31LloreanActually, I suppose repeat-one on the file wouldn't be a problem.
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22:44:01preglowhow is wakeup handled on other targets, btw? it just turns on and starts playing if resume is enabled?
22:44:10preglowalarm wakeup, that is
22:44:39linuxstbIt's only implemented for Archos devices with a hardware mod I think.
22:44:55linuxstbSomething like HAVE_ALARM_MOD
22:45:39preglowoh? well, at least there's some code for it, then
22:45:53 Part tomal
22:46:04LloreanSoap: It's only feature bloat if it's in the official build. I was more fishing about how easy it'd be to do for my own build. ;)
22:46:15preglowargh, grep picks up .svn all the time
22:46:29preglowLlorean: i don't think that'd be very hard at all
22:46:54Lloreanpreglow: Alright, thanks.
22:47:47preglowlinuxstb: how's that archos port coming along, btw?
22:48:07linuxstbNo time yet...
22:48:28preglowbut you've got a unit?
22:48:32linuxstbI'm still very keen to do it though.
22:49:58nlspreglow: looking at the start_resume() function in tree.c line 480~520 it seems an alarm triggered wakeup will resume regardless of the setting.
22:50:56preglownls: yeah, just hoping there's some bit toggled in the pcf that tells me why i woke up
22:51:18preglowbut there's pretty much bound to be that
22:51:55markunLlorean: toffe thought you had some problems with the Gigabeat button code
22:53:15preglowa 136 page document with no toc
22:53:19preglowi shall kill phillips
22:53:22Mikachupreglow: try −−exclude .svn or such
22:53:29markunLlorean: ah, I see it was just about the LEDs..
22:55:32preglowcalendar functions on-chip, not too shabby
22:55:54markunLlorean: I'm working on a better gigabeat cross driver, perhaps you want to try my test plugin:
22:58:13markun(there is also a .rock at the same URL if you are lazy :)
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23:01:03pregloweh, i'm having trouble finding actual port addresses in the pcf datasheet
23:01:28 Part fasmaie
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23:11:05linuxstbpreglow: If you haven't found them by now, they're #defined in pcf50605.c
23:11:06preglowlinuxstb: is it just me or do the two pcf rtc drivers in drivers/rtc do just about the same?
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23:12:03linuxstbYep, they do look similar...
23:13:53preglowthe 506 one does a bit more fiddling with disabling irqs
23:13:55preglowbut that's that
23:14:01preglowand that's used for x5, apparently
23:14:11preglowoh, and h300
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23:15:20***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:16:01preglowamiconn: can you think of any clever ways to fix the prescale latency problem?
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23:18:37*midgey wonders is anyone got around to looking at RaeNye's reworked PCF50606 driver
23:19:19 Quit FOAD ("Lost terminal")
23:19:19preglowin the tracker?
23:19:42midgeyFS #5808
23:19:52midgeylast i checked, it wasnt working
23:20:51preglowthat's for x5, and i don't bend that way
23:21:19preglowlooks like it does stops bitbanging it and uses the i2c controller instead
23:21:30midgeyhaha, alright
23:21:55preglowwhich is nice, i guess, but i have no x5 :)
23:22:10midgeyvery few devs seem to
23:22:32amiconnpreglow, dan_a: The wps only updates dynamic content. It has done so for ages, since back in archos-only times
23:22:45preglowdan_a: then you've got a weird problem on your hands
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23:25:31 Part Winchester
23:25:41Shaidthat's odd.
23:25:57ShaidHe's in Australia, and I know for a fact it's 9:25am there
23:26:50amiconnpreglow: Low-latency mode? Iiuc that is used during all audio setting activity (?)
23:27:19preglowamiconn: yes, but it's not instant, and if you switch the setting too fast, the latency might still be over a second or two
23:27:37amiconnThat's unavoidable, I'd say
23:27:52preglownot unavoidable, but it'll require a very big hack to avoid it
23:28:54 Quit hanno ("Verlassend")
23:29:07preglowanyway, we'll see
23:29:27preglowi think i'll actually enable this sw tone controls stuff on my nano as well, the hardware ones don't seem to work
23:29:31pregloweither that, or they really suck
23:30:52preglowMikachu: i can't make −−exclude work :/
23:31:09amiconnpreglow: RTC alarm is available without hardware mod on the fm recorder and recorder v2, and with a slight hardware mod on the v1
23:31:35preglowamiconn: it looks dead easy to enable it on ipods as well, so i think i'll have a go
23:31:47amiconnAnd yes, it just "presses the On button" when the alarm time is reached, and relies on you having it set to "resume on startup"
23:31:59preglowMikachu: oh, it only works for files, not dirs
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23:33:02amiconnLlorean: If you ever tried the archos firmware on your recorder, you wouldn't suggest this 'resue from start of file'. It's the only resume mode said firmware knows, and it's *annyoing*
23:33:30*amiconn can't type
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23:36:09preglowperhaps what we're not doing on ipod is power off the hard drive? is that plausible?
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23:36:43linuxstbYes, afaik we're not doing that.
23:36:56amiconnWe're not doing that, and yes, it does have an influence on battery runtime
23:37:37amiconnThe effect varies by target; on archos it's ~10% more runtime. On H1x0 it was mare, ~30% iirc
23:38:03preglowdoesn't sound like something that would be too hard to implement either, but it'd probably require some pcb tracing
23:38:39amiconnI don't think pcb tracing will help, as we don't know the pp pinout
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23:38:55linuxstbIIRC, it's just a GPIO pin on the H10 which barry found by random prodding.
23:38:57preglowi would have thought it'd be connected to the pcf
23:39:20amiconnWhy the pcf, and not an arbitrary gpio pin?
23:39:24ShaidI've got a broken 4th gen I'm more than happy to sacrifice for the cause!
23:39:34preglow*shrug*, just sounded more logical to use the pcf
23:40:01preglowShaid: that might actually be somewhat interesting
23:40:16linuxstbamiconn: Is it a GPIO pin on all the other targets?
23:40:33Shaidscreen is broken and it gets about 1.5 hours playtime
23:40:46preglowi think it'd end up being picked apart anyway...
23:40:47Shaidand I think the drive is wearing out too
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23:42:07*linuxstb reminds preglow he still has the ops powers...
23:42:13voltagexhi, what is USBOTG?
23:42:30Mode"#rockbox -o preglow " by preglow (n=thomjoha@rockbox/developer/preglow)
23:42:54Bagdervoltagex: you should ask mr google and he will tell you lots
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23:43:58voltagexdoes this mean I'll be able to use a mouse in doom?
23:43:59amiconnlinuxstb: Archoses and irivers use gpio, X5 uses pcf gpo
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23:44:35Soappreglow: if the powered-on hard drive was such a large factor - why is the Nano affected as bad as the other PP ports?
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23:44:47preglowSoap: i thought it was affected somewhat less
23:45:03amiconnlinuxstb: Gigabeat and H10 also use gpio
23:45:29SoapI misspoke when I said "as bad", but the Nano doesn't appear to get even 60% of stock runtime.
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23:45:55amiconnThe Ondio as a flash device doesn't have a means to cut power to the flash memory; don't know about the other flash based targets
23:46:45amiconnSoap: I think the ipod with the best rockbox/applefw runtime ratio so far is the mini g2, but even on mini g2 the ratio is <1
23:47:11preglowthe nano ata -> flash bridge autosleeps
23:47:15Shaidmaybe the mini/etc power down the flash chips when not in use...
23:47:28amiconnThe mini uses a microdrive, not flash
23:47:40Shaidoh, yeah
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23:48:34Soapbut I didn't mean to poop on your idea preglow :(
23:48:42amiconnFlash chips usually auto sleep (that's why the Ondio doesn't have a separate power control - though I wish it had (for another reason unrelated to runtime))
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23:51:07pixelmaHi LinusN, do you have a minute?
23:52:02peturhmmm... our add_dir_entry() always creates a long filename, even for 8.3 names
23:53:53amiconnThat shouldn't be a problem imho
23:54:46peturok, so I'll just always randowmize the shortname... easy fix then :)
23:55:27amiconnI think we should implement the "official" longname->shortname mapping algorithm
23:55:34amiconnCheck today's log
23:56:13*petur checks
23:56:39*petur checks again but uses firefox this time
23:57:23Lunar_Lamp <== The manual says "various" for file formats supported for my iAudio X% under rockbox - how do I check which formats it can play?
23:57:59BagderLunar_Lamp: 1) read the code 2) try all formats you have 3) read the wiki SoundCodecs page ;-)
23:58:19preglowi2c_readbyte, i2c_readbytes, then suddenly pp_i2c_send, so much for api consistency

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