00:00:33 | jhMikeS | rather astounding I don't make that typo more often |
00:00:41 | jhMikeS | or ever, even |
00:02:04 | obo | petur: I think 5495 should be fixed by changing the way that the changed_event callback works instead of calling scrobbler directly within the playback code - otherwise there would be issues with the HWCODEC targets? (calling /apps from /firmware?) |
00:02:38 | amiconn | ahaaaaa! |
00:02:43 | amiconn | My theory was correct |
00:02:51 | jhMikeS | everything seems to end up getting hacked into playback.c somehow |
00:02:52 | petur | obo: I'm not familiar with the code but maybe I should dive into it |
00:03:08 | preglow | amiconn: i get a lot of compiler warnings from functions taking function pointers when taking a function with ICODE_ATTR before its declaration here |
00:03:08 | * | amiconn now has an even more weird progress bar with 36 marks spread onto only 112 pixels |
00:04:09 | obo | petur: I tried to fix it that way, but got lost in playback.c - I think I managed to get the first track to log, but all others then caused 2 events |
00:04:18 | linuxstb | Does hwcodec load the next track info even if the next track isn't buffered? |
00:04:21 | amiconn | ...and apart from the fact that the subtrack skip doesn't unpause, it works now (!!!) |
00:04:31 | amiconn | linuxstb: nope |
00:04:56 | amiconn | Next track info is only available on hwcodec if the track is at least partially buffered |
00:08:28 | | Quit bluebrother ("leaving") |
00:09:09 | | Quit midkay ("Leaving") |
00:10:43 | jhMikeS | preglow: like pcm playback stuff? you have to use far pointers now or something? (in re: to removing long calls) |
00:10:46 | preglow | amiconn: how do you think we tell gcc that mem* is long_call when it uses them itself for struct init and such? :/ |
00:11:00 | preglow | jhMikeS: pointers are always far |
00:11:07 | preglow | jhMikeS: it's just a semantic issue |
00:11:13 | | Quit roolku () |
00:11:15 | amiconn | eurgh.... |
00:11:18 | preglow | jhMikeS: the functions have a section attribute, but a function type can't have a section attribute |
00:11:23 | jhMikeS | din't know if the changes changed that :\ |
00:11:25 | preglow | but gcc still nags |
00:12:00 | * | preglow wonders if gcc has a flag for not using mem* |
00:12:04 | preglow | but i think it requires them |
00:12:11 | | Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara") |
00:12:18 | jhMikeS | extern void foobar (void) __attribute__ ((section ("bar"))); |
00:13:37 | jhMikeS | oh, never mind I misready badly :P |
00:13:43 | jhMikeS | misread even |
00:13:58 | petur | obo: if the logfile says S it means skipped, right? Well I played the track 3/4 pressed stop and is is marked 'S' |
00:14:00 | | Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
00:14:31 | obo | Yup, S is skipped. Is that with 6213 applied? |
00:14:41 | petur | both |
00:15:41 | obo | weird - I thought the end of play issues were solved by that patch - I'll have to take another look at it again tomorrow |
00:16:07 | obo | which target was that on? |
00:16:19 | petur | h300 |
00:16:29 | obo | I guess those have a real stop button? |
00:16:39 | petur | yes |
00:16:50 | petur | ...which I used |
00:16:59 | obo | okay - I've only got an ipod, so might have missed something there |
00:17:02 | Nico_P | amiconn: well done and thanks for looking into it |
00:17:14 | Nico_P | i'm sorry i didn't answer, i was on the phone |
00:17:23 | amiconn | Nico_P: I'll commit the gwps-common fix soonish |
00:17:30 | Nico_P | cool :) |
00:17:32 | jhMikeS | preglow: dllexport? :P |
00:17:37 | amiconn | Just want dmdfan to test whether it also fixes his issue |
00:17:42 | Nico_P | so what's the state ? it works on HWCODEC ? |
00:17:52 | amiconn | Not fully, and it's a hack |
00:18:01 | Nico_P | ok |
00:18:23 | amiconn | First issue is that I did tha badness and just declared two apps/ functions directly in mpeg.c |
00:18:34 | amiconn | That's for testing of course |
00:18:49 | amiconn | The other issue is that skipping subtracks doesn't unpause |
00:19:22 | jhMikeS | preglow: I think it's long_call/short_call, fer real. "This attribute specifies how a particular function is called on ARM." |
00:19:22 | amiconn | ...so that if you skip, playback ends up paused. Manual unpausing makes it continue from where it should (i.e. the skip destination) |
00:19:43 | Nico_P | that would be in cuesheet.c:curr_cuesheet_skip() |
00:19:54 | jhMikeS | does it have that attribute or am I just spewing? |
00:20:11 | Nico_P | actuallay no, seek() |
00:21:04 | Nico_P | there's a special #ifdef for HWCODEC and it does lack un unpause call |
00:21:12 | preglow | dllexport? |
00:21:22 | preglow | what? |
00:22:38 | | Quit obo ("bye") |
00:24:16 | preglow | ARGHG |
00:25:36 | preglow | amiconn: i don't seem to have much luck with this |
00:26:46 | Nico_P | amiconn: can i let you add the audio_resume() call ad part of your commit ? |
00:26:51 | Nico_P | s/ad/as |
00:27:10 | | Quit rotator () |
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00:28:42 | amiconn | Nico_P: I think the audio_pause() call is unnecessary |
00:29:22 | Nico_P | well at some places where seeking is done there is such an #if to call audio_pause() for HWCODEC targets |
00:29:39 | Nico_P | i just assumed it was required, having no targets to test on |
00:30:26 | | Join fasmaie [0] (n=yohann@71.233.79.102) |
00:30:36 | amiconn | Afaik that's just to pause while seeking interactively, i.e. while holding 'left' or 'Right' |
00:31:13 | | Part LinusN |
00:32:12 | Nico_P | ok |
00:34:05 | preglow | even with ICODE_ATTR both at def and decl, i still get truncated relocations from time to time |
00:34:12 | jhMikeS | preglow: no, long_call/short_call? :) doesn't work? |
00:35:36 | jhMikeS | personally I'd try those out |
00:35:42 | preglow | long_call is embedded in ICODE_ATTR |
00:35:51 | preglow | so i use that |
00:36:02 | jhMikeS | ah...so never mind my bs ;) |
00:36:05 | preglow | using short_call would mean tagging everything not ICODE_ATTR with an attribute, which is a bit of work :) |
00:36:15 | amiconn | Nico_P: Hmm, seems you're right |
00:36:32 | amiconn | weirdo playback eingine |
00:38:59 | amiconn | Seems to work. Now how to get rid of da baaad hack? |
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00:42:41 | | Quit entheh ("^~") |
00:44:41 | * | jhMikeS doesn't get why more of these function attributes aren't just available on all CPUs that can have them...particularly regparm and naked |
00:45:00 | preglow | gcc... |
00:45:44 | | Join Domonoky [0] (n=Domonoky@p549ACA6E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
00:46:08 | jhMikeS | and how'd they ever end up not including the tpf instruction in the assembler...very odd |
00:46:33 | amiconn | tpf *is* included in the assembler |
00:47:09 | amiconn | But you can't use it the way it makes most sense - putting another instruction as the data part of tpf.w or tpf.l |
00:47:22 | preglow | exactly |
00:47:39 | amiconn | I honestly can't imagine how that should look in clean assembler syntax... |
00:47:42 | preglow | hrmrhr |
00:47:53 | preglow | switch_thread gives me relocation errors everywhere |
00:49:05 | | Join Ribs [0] (n=ribs@91.84.8.218) |
00:50:10 | jhMikeS | it's alway .word 0x51fx ... ick |
00:51:02 | | Join BigMac [0] (n=mike@c-71-234-95-131.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) |
00:51:03 | Kasperle | can't you make a macro to beautify that a bit? |
00:51:17 | jhMikeS | I think if I saw tpf.l in the assembler I'd get the idea :) |
00:52:07 | amiconn | It's either 0x51fa or 0x51fb |
00:52:09 | jhMikeS | there should be ... good idea, I'll see about making one |
00:52:13 | Nico_P | amiconn: thanks for the commits :) |
00:52:14 | | Quit ender` (" In the beginning, there was nothing. And God said, 'Let there be Light.' And there was still nothing, but you could see a bi) |
00:52:26 | jhMikeS | it can have no extension words to be a noop instruction |
00:52:33 | amiconn | ...depending on whether you want .w or .l |
00:52:35 | | Quit CriamosAndy ("( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: www.XLhost.de )") |
00:52:49 | amiconn | Yes, but then you can just write the instruction |
00:53:03 | preglow | amiconn: i had to move mem* out of iram or gcc threw a zillion truncated relocation warnings only about those :/ |
00:53:19 | jhMikeS | that works? just tpf? I don't recall if I actually ever did it. |
00:53:37 | Nico_P | amiconn: there migth be other cases of seeking without unpausing in gwps.c, relating to when we want to seek to the beginning |
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00:54:00 | | Quit petur ("ZzzZzz") |
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00:54:46 | jhMikeS | yeah, macro sounds like a good idea ... looks better |
00:56:41 | preglow | i don't have a problem with the .word approach |
00:56:53 | amiconn | jhMikeS: Either tpf or trapf should work |
00:57:10 | jhMikeS | trapf ... isn't that an entirely different thing? |
00:58:21 | amiconn | nope |
00:58:49 | * | jhMikeS is thinking about TRAP |
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01:00 |
01:00:23 | jhMikeS | guess I can call exception vectors whenever with that :P |
01:02:13 | | Quit BHSPitMonkey (Connection timed out) |
01:04:35 | preglow | bah |
01:04:43 | preglow | gccs long call handling leaves a hell of a lot to be desired |
01:05:16 | jhMikeS | preglow: I _am_ happy to hear though that's really it's only major flaw |
01:05:22 | amiconn | Nothing new... |
01:06:18 | amiconn | jhMikeS: trap and trapf are related insofar as trapf means "trap false", i.e. a trap that is guaranteed to be never taken... |
01:08:35 | jhMikeS | i understand. it seems gcc spits out a whole different bunch of mnemonics esp. with branch instructions so doesn't suprise me it has aliases for tpf |
01:09:51 | | Quit fasmaie (Remote closed the connection) |
01:10:00 | jhMikeS | I'm guessing the freescale lit. wanted to eliminate confusion between trapf and trap by using tpf :\ |
01:11:09 | amiconn | MCF5249UM.pdf also calls it trapf |
01:11:25 | amiconn | ..while CFPRM calls it tpf |
01:11:46 | jhMikeS | I've been using CFPRM for instruction ref |
01:12:07 | | Quit Ribs ("eh eh ehhhh!") |
01:13:18 | * | jhMikeS sees "Cowon" written on a piece of paper and starts barking at it. :P |
01:14:57 | | Quit Juice^ ("Leaving") |
01:15:05 | amiconn | Hmmmmm, +86 bytes for the callback logic |
01:16:07 | preglow | bah |
01:16:14 | preglow | i can't be bothered with this shit much longer |
01:16:16 | * | jhMikeS though rb code size was measured in millibytes |
01:16:52 | preglow | switch_thread() is defined ICODE_ATTR in both thread.c and thread.h, yet almost all the other functions in thread.c get truncated relocations |
01:17:03 | preglow | when calling it |
01:17:40 | | Quit Mouser_X (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
01:17:47 | amiconn | Does thread.c include thread.h ? |
01:18:10 | preglow | amiconn: yes |
01:19:51 | * | Domonoky could need testers for rbutil (especially h10, iaudio and gigabeat, but be carefull, they are untested) |
01:20:17 | preglow | amiconn: what i've done so far is just remove -mlong-calls and do the ICODE_ATTR replacement thing |
01:20:40 | * | Domonoky also nearly finished Theme installing in rbutil (with themes from www.rockbox-themes.org) |
01:20:59 | Domonoky | there is now a patch for this on the tracker |
01:21:24 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
01:22:25 | preglow | amiconn: and looking at the assembler output, it's no wonder, gcc just goes ahead and uses bl for it |
01:22:38 | preglow | bl switch_thread |
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01:28:06 | | Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
01:31:17 | | Part toffe |
01:33:13 | Nico_P | amiconn: are you still against the cuesheet concept or are you starting to like it a bit ? :) |
01:33:28 | amiconn | I'm still against the concept. Strictly. |
01:33:39 | amiconn | But I'm even more against half-working features |
01:35:20 | Nico_P | well thanks for making it work |
01:35:20 | amiconn | ...and the subtrack support might be useful for when multi-track files get supported |
01:35:44 | Nico_P | what do you have in mind ? |
01:35:48 | amiconn | That's another odd concept imho, but those files exist and unlike with .cue there is no easy workaround |
01:36:03 | amiconn | I mean things like multi-track mods |
01:36:27 | Nico_P | i tjink i tried to have a look at those, but they are strange things |
01:36:33 | Nico_P | they have no length |
01:36:48 | amiconn | It depends on th eformat whether they have a length |
01:37:07 | amiconn | I'm not (only) talking sid here, in fact I'm not interested in sid |
01:37:25 | Nico_P | ah yes i'm probably confused with sid |
01:38:10 | preglow | if they have no lengths, you use a default length until we have metadata support |
01:38:21 | preglow | even sids can have length, but they're all stored in a long textfile database |
01:38:34 | amiconn | The build system seems to be almost asleep.... |
01:39:54 | barrywardell_ | Domonoky: you want me to test rbutil on my H10? |
01:39:57 | Nico_P | i'll try to have a look at MOD |
01:40:11 | Nico_P | the one i'd love to have is MP4 chapters |
01:40:23 | amiconn | Nico_P: The only place where I actually use .cue files is when copying audio CDs. I prefer to rip with EAC but EAC can't handle my burner, so I rip to .wav+.cue then burn with nero |
01:40:37 | amiconn | But that's temporary use, i.e. rip->burn->delete |
01:40:48 | | Join MonkeyTamer [0] (n=chatzill@207.62.156.85) |
01:40:50 | amiconn | ...and it's only for keeping the CD structure |
01:41:04 | Nico_P | cues are very popular when it comes to live DJ sets |
01:41:09 | preglow | Nico_P: mod doesn't need subtrack support |
01:41:35 | | Quit YouCeyE (Remote closed the connection) |
01:41:49 | amiconn | preglow: There are many mod formats which can have multiple subtracks |
01:42:19 | amiconn | Nico_P: Maybe because so many players failing on proper gapless? |
01:42:47 | Domonoky | barrywardell_ only if you know how to restore it if something goes wrong :-) |
01:42:55 | barrywardell_ | I do |
01:42:59 | Nico_P | amiconn: probably, yes. but that makes it cool to have cue support in rockbox |
01:43:01 | Domonoky | nice, thx |
01:43:10 | amiconn | My CD I used for making the test cue/mp3 is a live dj set, and I can play it gapless on all my targets when split into multiple mp3s |
01:43:18 | barrywardell_ | what do I need to do? just compile and run it? |
01:43:29 | barrywardell_ | from SVN? |
01:43:45 | Nico_P | amiconn: that's what i used to do too, but it's nice not to have to bother cutting the files |
01:43:49 | Domonoky | on linux you need to compile (and need wxwidgets2.8) |
01:44:02 | Domonoky | und windows or mac there are binarys on the wiki |
01:44:09 | Nico_P | but i don't use much cues either |
01:44:35 | Domonoky | so linux is difficult (you need also to complile wxWidgets 2.8 ) |
01:44:38 | amiconn | I didn't have to cut them, I ripped them as multiple filess... |
01:45:03 | Nico_P | actually i was thinking about live mixex i download |
01:45:21 | | Join YouCeyE [0] (n=YouCeyE@unaffiliated/youceye) |
01:45:27 | barrywardell_ | i'm on linux. I'll figure it out |
01:45:45 | Nico_P | ok, time for me to go to bed |
01:45:52 | Nico_P | bye |
01:46:03 | | Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) |
01:46:06 | Domonoky | you can also tty the linux binarys on the wiki, but there are not likely to work |
01:49:34 | | Quit amiconn (" reboot") |
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01:53:19 | preglow | perhaps i should try again to remap the iram... |
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02:00 |
02:00:45 | * | amiconn wonders how that would help |
02:01:11 | preglow | if i in some fantastical and magical way could put it below sram... |
02:01:45 | amiconn | (1) it would also require to put sdram on an address which is not an integer multiple of its size |
02:01:58 | preglow | indeed |
02:02:01 | amiconn | (2) even then we'd run into problems with 64MB |
02:02:25 | preglow | it's is extremely improbable, yes |
02:02:37 | | Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
02:02:38 | preglow | but i have no idea what i'm doing wrong here now |
02:02:49 | preglow | gcc generates code which flies directly in the face of what i tell it to |
02:03:05 | * | amiconn thinks that a gcc rework might help here |
02:03:07 | JdGordon | looks like ill be learning arm assembl this semster... hopefully that will come in handy here :p |
02:03:08 | * | amiconn hides |
02:03:17 | preglow | amiconn: yes, feel free to learn how gcc owrks |
02:03:23 | preglow | i've tried several times |
02:03:27 | preglow | also given up equally many times |
02:03:35 | preglow | but then i'm not the most persistant man ever |
02:04:20 | amiconn | Already tried -fno-optimize-sibling-calls ? |
02:04:41 | preglow | not at all |
02:04:42 | preglow | will do now |
02:04:44 | amiconn | This seems to be one thing gcc likes to stumble upon |
02:05:01 | preglow | same stuff |
02:05:15 | amiconn | It tries to be smarter than the coder, and then falls over itself |
02:05:57 | preglow | i wonder have ads deals with stuff like this |
02:06:04 | preglow | perhaps there's a manual for it somewhere |
02:06:15 | amiconn | ? |
02:06:31 | preglow | arm developer suite |
02:06:34 | preglow | the best arm assembler |
02:06:37 | preglow | eh |
02:06:38 | preglow | compiler |
02:06:40 | amiconn | oh ok |
02:07:52 | amiconn | Btw, any static functions involved? |
02:08:46 | preglow | not in this case, no |
02:08:48 | | Quit YouCeyE (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
02:08:58 | preglow | problem is that a bunch of functions in thread.c try to kall switch_thread non-long |
02:09:14 | preglow | including block_thread, sleep_thread, remove_thread |
02:09:16 | preglow | none are static |
02:09:25 | preglow | kall, nice one |
02:09:55 | amiconn | Easier to understand than 'have ads' |
02:10:05 | preglow | heh |
02:10:14 | amiconn | ...especially since 'ads' usually stand for something I do not want here |
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02:11:38 | * | amiconn wonders what gcc is doing there |
02:12:43 | BigMac | Hey, sorry if this is a bit rude, but why is this not included in the SVN |
02:12:49 | BigMac | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/4760 |
02:13:20 | preglow | because it smells bad |
02:13:32 | preglow | i really have no idea |
02:13:39 | preglow | the guy has commit access himself |
02:13:51 | BigMac | Hmm |
02:14:00 | Mikachu | i think people had some complaints, don't really remember |
02:14:02 | amiconn | Bah, not another of those ooold discussions again... |
02:14:09 | BigMac | I have never used the patch but it looks like a great patch |
02:14:27 | Llorean | BigMac: It doesn't look like it's fully cross-target yet. |
02:14:52 | BigMac | Oh, a patch has to be committed for all targets? |
02:14:57 | amiconn | It would give us 2 calendards which aren't cross-target |
02:15:04 | preglow | we have a calendar? |
02:15:06 | Llorean | BigMac: A plugin should work on all targets. |
02:15:14 | BigMac | Oh ok |
02:15:17 | Llorean | BigMac: Or all targets it can be made to work on. |
02:15:20 | barrywardell_ | Domonoky: anything I need to pass to configure for wxwidgets? |
02:15:21 | amiconn | On all targets where it makes sense |
02:15:28 | preglow | what's it called? |
02:15:32 | BigMac | but viewers are a different story right? |
02:15:33 | pixelma | RTC |
02:15:37 | amiconn | ...which are, in this case, all targets which feature an RTC |
02:15:51 | BigMac | Is RTC in black and white? |
02:15:58 | amiconn | preglow: surprise - 'calendar' |
02:15:59 | BigMac | well not black and white |
02:16:04 | * | preglow finds no calendar on nano |
02:16:06 | amiconn | It's recorder only |
02:16:10 | BigMac | black and purplish |
02:16:12 | preglow | ahahah |
02:16:12 | Domonoky | i think −−disable-shared is alle what is needed |
02:16:20 | amiconn | ...back from when there was nothing but archos |
02:16:23 | Llorean | BigMac: RTC means Real Time Clock |
02:16:25 | preglow | even more unportable than this one, then |
02:16:28 | amiconn | ...even from before Ondio times |
02:16:40 | Llorean | BigMac: And which viewer were you referring to specifically? |
02:16:52 | Llorean | BigMac: I mean, why do you think viewers are a different story for some reason? |
02:16:53 | preglow | this one is portable to tons of stuff, it seems |
02:17:21 | BigMac | Llorean: I am not sure, but i thought rockboy did not work on the nano |
02:17:44 | Llorean | BigMac: Rockboy dates back to before there was a Nano port. When it happened, it ran on the one single target that could support it. |
02:17:52 | preglow | what would be cool is if the calendar could record small voice clips |
02:17:58 | Llorean | BigMac: And it does work on the Nano now, and has for a good amount of time at this point. |
02:18:10 | BigMac | Oh ok |
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02:18:48 | barrywardell_ | could the one in FS not replace the existing calendar? or would it be better to update the calendar in SVN for newer targets? |
02:18:49 | Llorean | BigMac: Basically, a plugin should work on all targets where it makes sense before it's included, then _hopefull_ people will update it to new targets as Rockbox comes to them, but sometimes larger hurdles (like the Nano's screen attributes) keep it from happening for a while. |
02:19:12 | | Nick barrywardell_ is now known as barrywardell (n=barry@host-194-46-246-78.dsl-ie.utvinternet.net) |
02:19:54 | BigMac | H3xx,H100,iPod 3/4 G, Archos Ondio/Recorder, iAudio X5 |
02:20:02 | amiconn | barrywardell: No it can't, because it doesn't work on the target where the svn calendar does |
02:20:08 | BigMac | well what other targets would it need to be on |
02:20:30 | Llorean | BigMac: Which leaves off Gigabeat, 5G iPod, H10 20gb, H10 5/6gb |
02:20:39 | Llorean | And probably Sandisk Sansa e200 should be done too, at this point. |
02:20:41 | amiconn | The Ondio has no RTC |
02:20:50 | Llorean | amiconn: Neither did the H100 back then. |
02:21:03 | barrywardell | amiconn: yes, but if it was adapted to the remaining targets |
02:21:03 | Llorean | It'd still be useful for marking down events on specific dates. |
02:21:14 | MonkeyTamer | has the root menu been committed or not? Sorry if I'm just blind and did not see the commit on the front page, but I tried to patch and it claimed the svn had already been patched on a free revision |
02:21:25 | preglow | MonkeyTamer: no, but i don't think it'll be long |
02:21:25 | amiconn | barrywardell: Yes, sure, but that didn't happen, even though suggested. More than once. |
02:21:25 | barrywardell | it does work on H10 20GB too |
02:21:39 | BigMac | hmm |
02:21:49 | MonkeyTamer | oh ok, cool, thanks |
02:21:56 | pixelma | MonkeyTamer: that is because the patch is not clean - hasn't been committed yet |
02:22:00 | amiconn | It's a question of adapting to varying screen sizes (small screen in this case) |
02:22:02 | BigMac | I thought it said somewhere that it was on the 5g but I was probably just reading what I wanted to see |
02:22:03 | Llorean | barrywardell: I was just responding to BigMac's list. |
02:22:58 | * | amiconn would still like to disable rtc support in the official H1x0 builds |
02:23:00 | preglow | amiconn: it can't be commited because it doesn't support the one target the one in svn does, even when commiting it would add support for loads more targets than just the old one? |
02:23:15 | preglow | odd reasoning |
02:23:40 | Llorean | It really should be updated to support 'all' targets, though |
02:23:40 | preglow | but it should of course support all targets |
02:23:43 | preglow | indeed |
02:23:47 | amiconn | It could, but it shouldn't |
02:24:06 | amiconn | Then we would have 2 completely disjuct plugins for the same purpose in svn |
02:24:15 | preglow | amiconn: no, we boot out the old one and put in the new one |
02:24:19 | barrywardell | Llorean: ah, ok |
02:24:34 | preglow | amiconn: it seems like tons less work to adapt this one to the other platforms than the old one to the newer platforms |
02:24:48 | amiconn | preglow: And remove calendar support from the target where it already exists? |
02:24:53 | * | barrywardell agrees with preglow |
02:25:01 | preglow | amiconn: no, support should of course be added to the one in flyspray |
02:25:04 | pixelma | barrywardell: what about the 5/6GB H10? |
02:25:25 | amiconn | preglow: Yes, but then that should happen *before* removing the other |
02:25:51 | barrywardell | dunno. haven't tested that in the sim. obviously that should be added it would go into svn |
02:25:54 | amiconn | I have no problems with new plugins being a superset of old ones |
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02:26:22 | amiconn | That already happened, dunno how often |
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02:27:16 | preglow | jhMikeS: you do sin quite a bit against the 80 col rule here and there |
02:27:19 | barrywardell | hmm. with so many targets, creating a plugin is quite a lot of effort |
02:27:28 | preglow | indeed |
02:27:44 | Llorean | But others can pitch in. |
02:28:03 | barrywardell | amiconn: why not keep the existing one for the target it works on and have the new one for the newer (bitmap?) targets |
02:28:30 | Llorean | barrywardell: How is that better than just getting the new one more cross-target? |
02:28:53 | jhMikeS | preglow: anything in particular that's oob? the asm is a pain to keep that way but the c should be < 80 |
02:29:58 | barrywardell | Llorean: not better, but easier. |
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02:30:08 | preglow | jhMikeS: yeah, i guess i can agree on the asm |
02:30:18 | gsaathoff | hey all |
02:30:26 | pixelma | barrywardell: but not for the manual writers ;) |
02:30:54 | preglow | jhMikeS: i'll tell you if i see anything else |
02:30:55 | barrywardell | true. i agree that the best route is to adapt the new one to all targets. |
02:31:21 | jhMikeS | preglow: did I suddenly create a pita situation with all the pointer calls in dsp.c for arm or anything ? :o |
02:32:01 | preglow | jhMikeS: don't think so, no |
02:32:16 | jhMikeS | good 'cause it work so durn well for that :) |
02:32:18 | preglow | why would pointer calls matter for arm? |
02:32:38 | jhMikeS | I have no idea...just wondering given what's going on removing long calls |
02:33:05 | Llorean | barrywardell: I also think that allowing plugins in without cross-target support pretty much removes any incentive for the original author to even try for it outside their own desire, since their desire for having their code included can then be attained without it. Which means, to me, there's a chance of more fractioning between target 'features' |
02:33:08 | preglow | those instructions are only used for fixed position relative calls |
02:33:23 | preglow | if you jump through a pointer, you always load the pointer to a reg first then jump to that, so no worries there |
02:33:35 | barrywardell | Llorean: yes, I do agree with that point |
02:33:40 | JdGordon | pixelma: hey, I read last nights logs, and im ok with making left stay in / |
02:34:51 | * | JdGordon 's connection to svn. is still down, so wont be commitning before sunrise your time... |
02:35:05 | preglow | jhMikeS: you're absolutely sure doing a seperate pass for each channel in the sampler is faster? |
02:35:09 | preglow | jhMikeS: seems a bit counterintuitive to me |
02:35:41 | preglow | separate, even |
02:37:08 | preglow | resampler... |
02:37:35 | pixelma | JdGordon: just make sure that some agreement is there |
02:37:56 | JdGordon | thats the impression I got from the logs |
02:38:23 | jhMikeS | preglow: I never got to doing both channels at once but the channel loop was better then being unrolled |
02:38:49 | jhMikeS | Register allocation might be ok if I don't have to preserve the original address registers |
02:39:55 | preglow | ah, yes, i can imagine rolling that loop would be faster |
02:39:58 | preglow | small point in not doing so |
02:40:12 | pixelma | JdGordon: yes, got the same impression. I just don't want to be the last one to comment on this ;) |
02:40:41 | jhMikeS | Yes, I agree stereo should probably go in one pass though |
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02:40:41 | Llorean | JdGordon, pixelma: That's the impression I got too. |
02:42:50 | pixelma | alright but I need some sleep now - night! |
02:43:07 | jhMikeS | ...might even be a smaller function or not much larger anyway :\ |
02:43:11 | JdGordon | and i need food |
02:43:12 | JdGordon | ttyl |
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02:45:37 | preglow | jhMikeS: for arm i even wonder if i can use the conditional execution to put both in one loop |
02:45:52 | preglow | mono should be able to stand some cycles lost in each iteration |
02:46:13 | jhMikeS | to heck with with it, I'll just split things into mono/stereo versions and point to the correct routine...the channel checks and jumps might add up to almost as much |
02:46:48 | jhMikeS | well, for that...I guess it's fine if you've got that. you can give a single function two names anyway |
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02:51:52 | preglow | at least i hope i have enough regs |
02:52:04 | preglow | four for dst/src alone |
02:52:11 | preglow | hmm, which makes me remember |
02:52:34 | preglow | downsampling should be possible in place |
02:52:44 | preglow | something we should definitely take advantage of |
02:54:51 | jhMikeS | however for cf it doesn't have the nice iram buffer to write to |
02:54:58 | jhMikeS | not guaranteed anyway |
02:56:11 | jhMikeS | with not being allowed to write to the codecs buffer, it's back to using the temp buffer anyway :)) |
02:57:35 | preglow | which iram buffer? the resampler buffer? |
02:57:38 | preglow | isn't that iram everywhere? |
02:57:59 | preglow | writing to the codecs buffer isn't allowed? eh? |
02:58:05 | preglow | i thought that happened throughout |
02:58:20 | jhMikeS | I don't know. ...and doesn't it cheat and end up doing channel processing into the source? |
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02:59:39 | jhMikeS | I guess if conversion to internal format isn't done, gain isn't applied, and resampling isn't done, then yeah, that is what happens. |
03:00 |
03:00:01 | preglow | there's no reason not to use the codec buffer, that's for sure |
03:00:05 | preglow | it's almost always big and in iram |
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03:01:12 | jhMikeS | if we could remove sample_buffer that would free some big iram |
03:02:15 | jhMikeS | resample_buffer could be used if resampling or not I think |
03:02:40 | preglow | sample_buffer is just used for cutting up chunks in processing, yes? |
03:02:53 | preglow | i don't see why we'd ever need a helper buffer unless resampling |
03:03:06 | jhMikeS | yes and I learned crossfade atm doesn't like huge chunks |
03:03:13 | preglow | then it should be fixed |
03:03:30 | jhMikeS | I should ... one of those things the mixboard would just make go away |
03:03:42 | preglow | but yeah, if you ask me, we should try to keep all the action in the buffer we get from the codec as far as possible |
03:03:44 | jhMikeS | It should |
03:03:56 | preglow | it's big, and it's almost always iram |
03:04:05 | preglow | if not always |
03:04:21 | preglow | bigger chunks is good and iram is good, which equals \o/ |
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03:07:40 | jhMikeS | :) I suppose one temp alone is enough for when conversion is needed...and only that which grows data size. |
03:07:45 | BigMac | uhh running svn co svn://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/trunk rockbox does nothing at all in a terminal in ubuntu 6.1 |
03:08:44 | Soap | nothing as in you don't see any progress (straight back to prompt) or nothing as in an error or? |
03:09:40 | BigMac | Ah fixed |
03:09:53 | jhMikeS | the sizes passed to pcm buffer will have to stay down in the short term but it can be uncapped later |
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03:11:42 | preglow | jhMikeS: i look forward to your mixer concept, that's for sure |
03:14:55 | jhMikeS | one thing with resampling in place: the source values can't be read repeatedly like now |
03:15:12 | preglow | indeed not |
03:15:54 | jhMikeS | the cf upsampling already avoids it at least so no work there :) |
03:16:18 | preglow | yeah, but you can't upsample in place anyway |
03:17:41 | jhMikeS | It can if we use one temp buffer and place the source samples at the end. The resampler won't know. |
03:18:57 | preglow | doesn't seem like there's much of a point anymore then |
03:19:13 | preglow | hm, forget that |
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03:20:02 | preglow | i'm too tired for this stuff now |
03:20:04 | preglow | i'll call it a night |
03:20:05 | preglow | later |
03:20:09 | jhMikeS | gnight |
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03:21:52 | BigMac | http://rafb.net/p/OSPwI666.html |
03:22:02 | BigMac | Can anyone help me fix that error |
03:23:21 | Llorean | Well, did you install the cross compiler? |
03:23:56 | BigMac | Uhh I installed the arm packages if that is what you mean? |
03:24:44 | Llorean | I don't know what you mean by "the arm packages"... |
03:25:25 | Llorean | Do you mean "I ran rockboxdev.sh and chose arm" or "I manually installed arm-elf-gcc following the instructions on the CrossCompiler wiki page"? |
03:25:33 | BigMac | Uhh let me be more specific |
03:26:39 | BigMac | I ran rockboxdev.sh |
03:26:57 | BigMac | and got the ones needed for the video |
03:26:58 | Llorean | And after doing so, did you add the appropriate folder to your path? |
03:27:14 | BigMac | Uh we tried but never got it working |
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03:27:41 | Llorean | If you never got that working, why are you confused at all about why compiling isn't working. |
03:28:04 | Llorean | The error message even tells you specifically that it's not finding arm-elf-gcc in your path. |
03:28:55 | Llorean | Until you manage to get it properly added to your path, you're going to get that message. |
03:29:00 | BigMac | Because I am not sure how to get it working/what was not working |
03:29:29 | Llorean | You knew that had to be working though, you just said you'd tried to add it to your path before and failed... |
03:29:41 | Llorean | And then you get an error message saying "It's not in the path" |
03:30:01 | Llorean | It seems somewhat evident that "what was not working" is "It's not in the path" |
03:30:31 | Llorean | Unfortunately, I can't help you with that, I'm not very familiar with how to properly add things to the path. |
03:30:54 | BigMac | Ok well if anyone comes around who can, please just speak |
03:31:27 | Llorean | BigMac: You could make use of Google and do a little research on your own. |
03:31:53 | BigMac | ok |
03:31:54 | Llorean | Learning how to add things to the path of the operating system you choose to use seems to be something useful beyond just Rockbox. |
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03:40:59 | jhulst | Could I get write access to the Wiki please? I am working on creating a port to the Creative Zen Vision M |
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03:52:55 | JdGordon | does anyone know how to tunnel svn access through ssh? |
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04:15:24 | Aaron | Hey |
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04:17:05 | gigabeatf30 | hello |
04:17:18 | gigabeatf30 | hello |
04:17:38 | gigabeatf30 | how is everyone |
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04:20:06 | gigabeatf30 | hello |
04:22:05 | Aaron | hey |
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04:24:14 | bonbonthejon | hi |
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04:24:52 | mrmeme | hi |
04:24:57 | Aaron | hey |
04:25:08 | mrmeme | Can someone tell me if you can use DRM files with rockbox |
04:25:22 | mrmeme | i know everyone hates them....you don't have to tell me that |
04:25:23 | alienbiker99 | nope |
04:25:44 | mrmeme | so they won't play at all? |
04:26:05 | Soap | nope |
04:26:11 | Soap | and never will |
04:27:05 | bonbonthejon | mrmeme: there are ways to get rid of the DRM and convert to mp3 or something rockbox will play |
04:27:17 | mrmeme | how might you do that? |
04:27:33 | alienbiker99 | line in recording or semi illegal methods |
04:27:36 | Soap | anywhere else but Rockbox |
04:27:50 | bonbonthejon | mrmeme: ive never tried it, google it |
04:27:54 | mrmeme | why won't it ever support DRM? |
04:28:02 | alienbiker99 | cause it would be illegal to support it |
04:28:12 | bonbonthejon | mrmeme: an easy way is to burn the songs to CD, then re-rip the songs |
04:28:42 | Aaron | Does anyone have an Archos Jukebox? |
04:28:54 | mrmeme | hmm...i only pay 10 dollars a month for 3000 DRM songs so I don't see what everyone thinks is such a bad deal with that |
04:29:04 | Soap | freenode in general, and Rockbox in specific is not really the place to be discussing bypassing DRM or other copyright enforcement methods. |
04:29:31 | mrmeme | well i'm not really interested in doing that anyway |
04:29:39 | Soap | Especially when you are talking about doing it to rented songs, not purchased ones. |
04:29:44 | alienbiker99 | than rockbox isnt for you i guess |
04:30:24 | mrmeme | If you rent the songs legally why would it be illegal for rockbox to allow you to play the songs |
04:30:28 | Soap | Rockbox won't support DRM because DRM depends on security through obscurity. |
04:30:59 | Soap | You have the songs in an encrypted format, you have the encryption key on your player. |
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04:31:16 | mrmeme | I see, thanks for your help |
04:31:20 | Soap | The only reason the system works is because the lay man doesn't know how to use the key outside the context of their closed-source player. |
04:32:03 | mrmeme | which is fine if you understand you are simply helping people receive compensation for their property |
04:32:07 | Soap | Rockbox is an open source player. If it was to implement DRM, the key would be in plain sight. Anyone now could use said key in any method they wished. |
04:32:19 | mrmeme | OK i understand now |
04:32:23 | mrmeme | Thank You |
04:32:26 | Soap | No content provider would give a key to an open source project. |
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04:34:14 | bonbonthejon | Soap: which decoder is better in rockbox, mp3 or ogg? |
04:34:24 | Soap | define better? |
04:34:47 | bonbonthejon | Soap: my ipod g4 has small pauses in mp3 playback, I'm trying to figure out how to fix it |
04:35:07 | Soap | are you using a WPS with the peak meters? |
04:35:23 | Soap | Do you have the software EQ cranked up? Some other CPU intensive options? |
04:35:42 | bonbonthejon | Soap: no, i'm using llama beta, I believe EQ is turned off |
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04:36:17 | Soap | llama beta? |
04:36:26 | bonbonthejon | Soap: WPS |
04:37:59 | bonbonthejon | also when I go into the main menu, many times the disk activity icon shows and the menu is very slow |
04:40:44 | alienbiker99 | what build do you have |
04:42:03 | bonbonthejon | r12522-070228 |
04:42:04 | Soap | if you don't have the EQ on, that does sound overly dogish. |
04:42:42 | bonbonthejon | Soap: i think eq might have been on, even though I dont remember turning it on |
04:42:55 | bonbonthejon | Soap: it hasnt skipped yet, i'm trying it out |
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04:43:26 | Soap | every band you enable on the EQ sucks more and more wind out of your sails. |
04:44:16 | bonbonthejon | Soap: yeah, why isn't the patch for using both processors in ipod put into the main code |
04:44:29 | Soap | because it isn't done. |
04:45:00 | bonbonthejon | that explains it |
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04:47:19 | Aaron | Are the Archos Jukebox's the only Rockbox compatible players that can have there harddrive upgraded to a very large size? |
04:47:37 | jhulst | Could I get write access to the Wiki please? I am working on creating a port to the Creative Zen Vision M |
04:48:06 | Soap | jhulst: you registered yet? |
04:48:09 | jhulst | yes |
04:48:19 | Soap | Aaron: the only limit on most players is the avaliable hard drive sizes. |
04:48:38 | Soap | the Archos line uses 2.5" drives, whereas most the others use 1.8" drives. |
04:48:45 | Aaron | Ahh |
04:48:55 | Soap | I don't think the 100 GB 1.8" drives are out yet. |
04:49:05 | Aaron | And can the archos use SATA drives? |
04:49:09 | Aaron | that are 2.5 |
04:49:09 | Soap | I think the 80GB is the largest in the wild. |
04:49:43 | Soap | Aaron: SATA has little in common with PATA outside the name. So, no. |
04:50:15 | Aaron | So then I think the largest hd that would work with the Archos is a 160 gig |
04:50:17 | Soap | well, that' not all true - but the answer is. |
04:50:34 | Soap | name jhulst? |
04:50:49 | Soap | doh |
04:50:51 | Soap | nevermind. |
04:51:03 | Aaron | I just found one on Ebay that shows a picture on the displa saying File System Error, NO Valid FAT16/32 file system found. Please format drive. |
04:51:09 | Aaron | The description says: A hard drive upgrade was attempted but, accidentaly, all the system files were deleted. Item is sold AS IS; we were told that it has a 30 GB Hard Drive installed. However, the player cannot read the hard drive. This could be because of the system files or because the hard drive no longer works as it should have! |
04:51:53 | Aaron | Is it more likely that there is just a bad HD or files in it, or is there a descent chance some cable or soldred PCB connection broke? |
04:53:16 | Soap | jhulst: you should be in. |
04:53:56 | jhulst | Got it, thanks |
04:55:34 | Aaron | Any thoughts on that Soap? |
04:55:51 | Soap | Nope, I don't have an archos. |
04:57:49 | Aaron | From what I head the Archos should have as good of sound quality as my 5g ipod, I can put a big HD in it, and I don't care about the size |
04:57:56 | Aaron | And the battery life would be way more than my Ipod |
04:59:31 | alienbiker99 | what size hd do you want in it |
04:59:46 | Aaron | 160 gigs |
04:59:59 | Aaron | I think thats the biggest that I could get |
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05:06:44 | JdGordon | aliask: i might just do that... |
05:06:50 | JdGordon | not much other options |
05:07:02 | JdGordon | but there was more argument last night about the path... so i dunno :p |
05:07:15 | aliask | good to finally meet you too by the way |
05:07:22 | JdGordon | :) |
05:07:23 | Aaron | Does anyone have a comment about my battery situation? |
05:07:46 | Soap | Is the iPod under warranty? |
05:07:54 | JdGordon | im about to head off for a 2 hour lecture at caulfield... hopefully wireless works :p |
05:08:00 | Aaron | Yeah, but this is my issue |
05:08:12 | Aaron | If I use Itunes to restore it, it will update my firmware |
05:08:28 | JdGordon | aliask: can you get to svn. yet? |
05:08:44 | Aaron | and if I bring the Ipod in they may either A, put a new battery in in which case my firmware is the new kind, or B, try to give me an 80 gig ipod which isn't Rockbox compatible |
05:08:56 | aliask | JdGordon: I'll leave a ping -t running :) |
05:09:04 | JdGordon | na |
05:09:09 | Aaron | I should be able to download old firmware to use that installer to restore my Ipod with old software |
05:09:09 | Soap | I don't understand A |
05:09:28 | Aaron | Since I don't think the Apple store would be thrilled with me if I came in and Rockbox loaded up |
05:09:55 | Soap | Apple will replace the battery. If it is in Best Buys warranty period they will replace the iPod. (in my experience) |
05:10:06 | Aaron | I have Best Buy's warranty too |
05:10:23 | Aaron | but it depends if you have a Product Service Plan or Product Replacement Plan, and I'm 99 percent sure Ipods are the Replacement plan |
05:10:26 | Soap | you only have one at any given point in time. |
05:10:47 | Aaron | I don't think Bestbuy has 60 gig Ipods laying around anymore, but i could be wrong |
05:10:51 | Soap | plug it into itunes and restore that way. |
05:11:06 | Aaron | Itunes will update it to the newest firmware though when I restore it |
05:11:16 | Aaron | Aren't there issues with the newest firmware and gettin Rockbox on? |
05:11:27 | Soap | If a 5th gen 60 gig has a dead battery already, I would suspect defective battery, and I would want to get it taken care of ASAP. |
05:11:46 | Soap | there are no issues with apple firmware outside the 80 GB, and that will eventually get solved. |
05:12:45 | | Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!") |
05:14:58 | Aaron | So you don't think theres any chance this has somethign to do with my bootloader or software? Did you read my theory about Rockbox possibly underestimating my battery life? How does my Ipod have the energy to tell me its shutting down when everyone elses just dies? |
05:15:47 | Aaron | I'm going to restore and update to 1.2.1 and see what the battery is like using Apple firmware |
05:17:11 | Soap | I firmly believe you have a flaky battery. |
05:17:49 | Aaron | And you think Best Buy will just give me a new Ipod to walk out with that day for my batter issue? |
05:17:58 | Soap | but, yes, until you test with Apple firmware we know nothing and assume much. |
05:18:14 | Soap | Aaron: you don't have a BB AND an Apple warranty. |
05:18:22 | Soap | The BB one kicks in after the Apple one expires. |
05:19:05 | Aaron | Alright. And at the Apple store do you think they'll replace the battery while I wait or give me a new Ipod? |
05:19:34 | Soap | I don't know - I'm assuming the third option - they will replace the battery and you'll get it later. |
05:20:06 | Soap | But from what I've heard they won't hand you a new player because of battery issues, they'll replace the battery. |
05:20:36 | Soap | But that might depend on how much leg you flash to the clerk. |
05:20:56 | Aaron | Well they gave me a new one when my Ipod dock connector was being sketchy and very selectively outputting left and right audio |
05:21:16 | Soap | yea, that's a hardware issue, not a drop-in battery issue. |
05:22:00 | Aaron | But theoretically that could have opened it up, or sent it in and put in a new female dock port |
05:22:42 | Aaron | Three years ago the plastic casing over my 3g ipod lcd got corroded from this cleaner I used. I took the Ipod, put it in three plastic ziplocks, froze it for four hours |
05:22:43 | Soap | and they do - and sell them as refurbushed. The battery replacement is an order of magnitude simpler fix than any board replacement. |
05:22:54 | Aaron | I then sent it into Apple and they sent me a brand new one three days later |
05:23:06 | Soap | why did you freeze it? |
05:23:13 | | Quit atsea-145193 (Excess Flood) |
05:23:22 | Aaron | Since I couldn't see what was going on with the screen |
05:23:30 | Aaron | Unless the backlight was on |
05:23:51 | Aaron | It was all totally my fault and it was unethical of me |
05:23:53 | Soap | and the point of the freezer in this (way off topic to Rockbox) story?? |
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05:24:22 | Aaron | This was just a story related to Apple and there Ipod repair program |
05:24:29 | Aaron | Which is also totally off Rockbox I guess |
05:25:02 | Aaron | Okay the Ipod is restored. I guess I'll throw an album on there and put it on repeat |
05:25:37 | Soap | did you use the wiki instructions IpodInstallationBeta to install the bootloader before? |
05:25:48 | Soap | (or the manual)? |
05:25:59 | Aaron | The IpodInstallationBeta |
05:26:04 | Aaron | I used that to Update it thought |
05:26:10 | Aaron | To the bootloader with the black background |
05:26:19 | | Quit Thundercloud_ (Remote closed the connection) |
05:26:19 | Soap | and you couldn't dual boot? |
05:26:22 | Aaron | Before that the Apple OS worked, I had the blue bootloader |
05:26:47 | Aaron | I can't say for sure if the problems started happening after I updated the bootloader |
05:27:14 | Aaron | But it seems like it |
05:27:39 | Aaron | Whenever I charge my Ipod for a long time it almost always reports 83 percent battery life when its unplugged |
05:27:59 | Aaron | I am in the Apple OS software and it says Charged right now |
05:27:59 | Soap | yep - your battery is shot. |
05:28:14 | Aaron | While I was still running Rockbox the battery life was in the 70's |
05:28:14 | Soap | I'm willing to bet some cash. |
05:29:11 | Aaron | Let me put an album on. If it lasts many hours then something was going on with Rockbox |
05:30:44 | Soap | larger than 64MB album. |
05:31:06 | Aaron | Okay |
05:31:44 | Aaron | I'm going to have it put a 115 meg album on repeat |
05:36:24 | Aaron | Its outputting sound through my headphone port but not through my dock |
05:37:39 | Aaron | I don't see anything in the Apple OS settings to enable the line out |
05:37:56 | Soap | it is always on. |
05:38:29 | Aaron | I use this Ipod dock all the time and when I plug my mini jack from the stereo the the headphone port it works but not from the Line Out on the dock |
05:38:45 | Aaron | I never had single problem using it with Rockbox. The connection appears to be perfectly fine |
05:42:15 | Aaron | I've tried jiggling it a lot and still not a single peep of sound of the dock |
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05:42:51 | Aaron | However its been on for 10 minutes and it still shows perfect battery life. In rockbox I wouldn't have ever showed being full and it would have dropped 10 percent by now |
05:43:00 | | Quit printfXh4 (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
05:43:14 | Soap | that means nothing. |
05:43:28 | | Nick pseudo_ is now known as printfXh4 (n=pseudo@ppp41-145.lns1.syd6.internode.on.net) |
05:43:36 | Soap | Neither you nor I know the discharge curve Apple uses to calculate their analog battery meter. |
05:43:47 | Aaron | Thats true |
05:44:07 | Aaron | We'll see. I want to know why my freaking dock isn't outputting sound right now |
05:44:47 | Soap | one issue at a time. |
05:45:07 | Aaron | Why would it work normally with Rockbox but not Apple OS |
05:45:22 | Soap | That's a question for Apple. |
05:47:06 | Aaron | Well I've had it playing since 10:30 so its 15 minutes and counting |
06:00 |
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06:03:02 | JdGordon | yay i got wireless :) now you all have to entertain me during this 2 hour lecture :p |
06:03:35 | * | aliask dances |
06:04:00 | JdGordon | damn desk isnt big enough for the laptop and notes :p |
06:05:56 | aliask | Well, it's barbeque oclock. Have fun at uni jd. |
06:06:19 | | Quit aliask ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.2/2007021917]") |
06:07:17 | Aaron | Does the Ipod installation beta provide the best instructions for installing Rockbox? |
06:09:31 | | Part jhulst ("Kopete 0.12.4 : http://kopete.kde.org") |
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06:15:57 | Eztli | My iPod is missing the rockbox.ipod file, and so it can't boot. How do I get it into disk mode? |
06:16:33 | Eztli | iPod 3G. |
06:23:33 | Aaron | Hold on a second |
06:23:50 | Aaron | http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=8205.0 |
06:24:00 | Aaron | It says how to reset your Ipod and get into Disk mode |
06:25:41 | Eztli | And nevermind. Buttons started responding again. |
06:25:55 | Eztli | wtf lag |
06:26:04 | Eztli | unless you typed that all at the same time |
06:30:08 | | Quit rotator () |
06:32:21 | Eztli | Does anyone know how to eject any iPod when it is in use? |
06:32:36 | Eztli | Kaspersky decided to scan it, and froze, and I can't stop it, no matter what I try. |
06:35:30 | Shaid | scan another drive |
06:35:37 | Shaid | should release the file handler on it |
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07:00 |
07:05:16 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
07:21:24 | | Part toffe |
07:23:36 | pearldiver | is there a way to create a one click "safety remove hardware" shortcut for a particular device? |
07:31:27 | amiconn | I don't thinks so... |
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07:46:18 | Shaid | two clicks is too many? |
07:48:52 | * | amiconn doesn't 'safely remove' |
07:49:24 | amiconn | If caching is disabled (which it is by default for usb mass storage device), just pulling the plug works fine |
07:49:39 | amiconn | One big advantage over linux... |
07:50:34 | amiconn | *write caching |
07:51:11 | joshua_ | amiconn, that's fine on FAT32 devices, but on NTFS or ext devices you wouldn't want to do that, because that would not mark the "clean unmount" bit |
07:51:15 | Slasheri | that isn't "advantage" at all. Of course you can disable caching with linux too |
07:51:31 | amiconn | Per device? |
07:51:38 | Slasheri | sure, just edit the fstab |
07:51:48 | amiconn | joshua_: True, but then I don't use external ntfs drives |
07:51:49 | Slasheri | and use sync option or something like that |
07:52:20 | amiconn | For some reason linux (or maybe just nautilus in this case) doesn't like surprise removal |
07:52:47 | joshua_ | recent kernels have gotten better at dealing with USB devices going away |
07:52:52 | pearldiver | Shaid it never works on 2nd click for me somehow |
07:53:01 | amiconn | If I just pull one of my targets from linux (knowing nothing was written to the disk), the icon doesn't disappear, and further hot-plugs don't work |
07:53:02 | pearldiver | i have to do it all over again all the time |
07:53:15 | joshua_ | in the past, that used to be a huge issue with usb serial; a serial drvice that was open would hang the system if removed (!) |
07:53:24 | Slasheri | but disabling caching also greatly slows down transfer speeds. just type umount /something and wait until writing finishes |
07:54:10 | amiconn | usb support in linux seems to be shaky in general. |
07:54:40 | Slasheri | amiconn: probably the system is not configured for hot plugging/umounting by default. I have seen that is possible but never tried to do that myself |
07:54:41 | amiconn | I got data errors in copied files; never happened on other os'es |
07:55:17 | Slasheri | with fat32 and cleanly unmounted drive? |
07:55:23 | amiconn | yes |
07:55:33 | Slasheri | never happened to me.. |
07:56:00 | amiconn | The fat structure was intact, but I was wondering why track changes between flac files causing clicks |
07:56:22 | amiconn | Turned out that rockbox skipped prematurely due to data errors |
07:56:37 | amiconn | Re-copied the files via windows, and all was fine |
07:57:27 | amiconn | That was in several files all copied in one go. Not reallyimproving my trust in linux' usb abilities :/ |
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08:00 |
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08:21:34 | Kasperle | preglow: i used my ipod with rockbox in addition to my alarm clock this morning :D |
08:22:05 | pondlife | Tomorrow, it's only Rockbox :) |
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08:23:13 | Kasperle | heh. i'm all for redundancy. esp. because i might forget to not put the ipod on hold, which would make it fail ;) |
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08:46:52 | Aaron | Hey |
08:47:17 | Aaron | Does anyone know why the line out on my 5g ipod works through Rockbox but not the Apple OS? |
08:49:08 | markun | amiconn: yes, I've see a few people here having the same problem |
08:50:05 | Kasperle | Aaron: maybe the apple OS has different volume settings? |
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08:50:35 | Aaron | I looked through all the menu settings for an enable or disable and found nothing. Soap said thats its on all the time which I'm sure is true |
08:51:25 | Kasperle | oh. line out. that's different from the headphone jack? |
08:51:43 | Aaron | Yeah, using the Ipod Dock |
08:51:47 | Kasperle | ah |
08:51:49 | Kasperle | :/ |
08:51:58 | Aaron | I should have clarified |
08:52:07 | fejfighter | coz rockbox is awsome :P |
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08:59:34 | amiconn | Aaron: It works in rockbox but not in apple? That's the opposite of what I'd expect in case it doesn't work in both anyway.... |
09:00 |
09:00:57 | Aaron | Yea. I just restored my Ipod and it didn't work even prior to putting Rockbox back on |
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09:23:08 | GodEater | markun: heh - looks like we both answered that guy at once. He definitely seems to be technically challenged. |
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09:26:44 | markun | GodEater: yes, he's an idiot :) |
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09:27:06 | decayedcell_ | linuxstb here? |
09:28:38 | decayedcell_ | running ipodpatcher on a 4G with linux installed by iPL Installer gives [ERR] Unknown image type xnil |
09:28:46 | markun | GodEater: I really hope he'll like rockbox when he gets there in the end :) |
09:29:20 | GodEater | I think the file browser interface may end up confusing him |
09:29:32 | GodEater | since he doesn't even seem to understand the metaphor on his PC |
09:29:37 | GodEater | let alone a DAP |
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09:29:57 | markun | amiconn: people keep asking about the batter mAh setting. Can't we just remove that together with runtime estimation os SWCODEC targets (unless you have a good idea on how to fix it) |
09:30:21 | markun | s/batter/batttery/ s/os/on/ |
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09:30:47 | DataGhost | is that the setting described as 'use 500mAh for charging' or something like that? |
09:30:56 | markun | no |
09:30:58 | DataGhost | oh |
09:31:08 | DataGhost | hm, too bad then |
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09:31:29 | DataGhost | (I still can't run rockbox on my 5.5G so if it applies to iPods at all, I still never saw it) |
09:31:47 | GodEater | it applies to all SWCODEC targets |
09:31:56 | markun | DataGhost: yes, also applies to the ipods |
09:31:59 | GodEater | well - ALL rockbox targets in fact |
09:32:06 | markun | in fact to everything which is not an archos |
09:32:07 | GodEater | it just doesn't MEAN much on most of them :) |
09:32:08 | Kasperle | DataGhost: why can't you? |
09:32:08 | DataGhost | ah :) |
09:32:16 | DataGhost | Kasperle because I have a 80GB iPod? |
09:32:20 | Kasperle | ah |
09:32:28 | markun | GodEater: eh yes, you are right of course :) |
09:32:32 | DataGhost | I can see the splashscreen but that really isn't a reason to use it |
09:32:36 | Kasperle | Cpt. Obvious! :D |
09:32:39 | GodEater | we're still waiting on the shout of "Eureka" from LinusN |
09:33:02 | DataGhost | I've shouted that a couple of times already but rockbox is completely different from iPL :P |
09:33:09 | GodEater | mostly the shouting has just been profanity though |
09:33:33 | GodEater | heh |
09:33:37 | DataGhost | by the way, I devised a way to use iPL a little bit like rockbox... with the necessary files on FAT32 so no partitioning is needed :) |
09:33:45 | * | GodEater wonders if there'll be a "Gentlemen, we have disk access" email from LinusN |
09:33:48 | DataGhost | hehe |
09:34:05 | GodEater | nice going |
09:34:14 | Kasperle | whatever happened to linux on UMSDOS partitions :D |
09:34:25 | DataGhost | I don't know |
09:34:28 | GodEater | you can still use it |
09:34:35 | DataGhost | it just annoyed me yesterday night, when trying to get this to work |
09:34:37 | GodEater | you'd just have to been insane to want to |
09:34:48 | linuxstb | decayedcell_: Sounds like the IPL installer is doing something odd to your firmware partition... Just restore a clean one. |
09:34:51 | DataGhost | ipod_c~1 isn't really useful when the userland searches for iPod_Control |
09:35:12 | Kasperle | heh |
09:35:42 | Kasperle | i need to sort ipl out. i crashed mpd −−update when i added 15gb of music all at once |
09:35:46 | DataGhost | http://de.dataghost.com/ipl/IMG_7858b.JPG http://de.dataghost.com/ipl/IMG_7859b.JPG |
09:35:49 | Kasperle | now mpd won't start anymore |
09:35:53 | DataGhost | strange |
09:35:55 | DataGhost | in podzilla2? |
09:36:11 | Kasperle | well, i added mpd −−update and mpd to /etc/rc |
09:36:17 | DataGhost | because I had it crashed a couple of times too... when I decided that the installation instructions (unpack and start) weren't sufficient |
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09:36:21 | DataGhost | and I added mpd to rc |
09:36:29 | DataGhost | so mpd was started and then it was started again from podzilla :) |
09:36:36 | DataGhost | so it ran out of memory |
09:36:44 | DataGhost | podzilla already starts mpd and it'll update and everything |
09:36:50 | * | LinusN wonders if there'll be a "Gentlemen, LinusN will be paid to work full time on Rockbox" email from someone :-) |
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09:36:56 | DataGhost | hehe |
09:36:57 | Kasperle | yeh, with mpd running, podzilla complained about there not being enough memory for libstdcxx |
09:37:01 | linuxstb | DataGhost: What was your approach to IPL-on-FAT32? |
09:37:18 | Kasperle | and now podzilla just says it can't contact mpd, so i guess it's not starting |
09:37:19 | DataGhost | oh and you can delete libstdcxx unless you actually have a use for it. it's huge and doens't do anything for most people |
09:37:29 | Kasperle | oh. i see |
09:37:36 | DataGhost | mpd probably can't start because the modules are taking too much memory |
09:37:39 | Kasperle | thought it was loaded as a dependency for smth |
09:37:55 | DataGhost | linuxstb a few binaries, only the very basic folders and a file, containing ext3 |
09:38:15 | Kasperle | overall i wonder whether i have much use for ipl. rockbox cares to all my needs right now |
09:38:23 | GodEater | LinusN: I'll pay you to work fulltime on RockBox - just don't expect the world's largest salary ;) |
09:38:29 | LinusN | lol |
09:38:31 | Kasperle | and ipl documentation seems flaky at best |
09:38:40 | Kasperle | all i see is a bunch of howtos |
09:40:08 | DataGhost | and in a few days there will be another one with the no-partitioning installation method :P |
09:40:23 | DataGhost | but I have to wait for my kernel patch to be merged into cvs |
09:40:36 | DataGhost | because the thing I constructed cntains that patch in the kernel |
09:40:38 | Kasperle | DataGhost: thanks for your work on 5.5g support though :) |
09:40:42 | linuxstb | DataGhost: Why not use a tiny ramfs for the /dev folder, and everything else on fat32? |
09:41:09 | DataGhost | linuxstb I think that can be done as well, but I think symlinks were the main problem |
09:41:25 | linuxstb | Ah yes, busybox... |
09:41:29 | DataGhost | :) |
09:42:42 | DataGhost | the reason why iPL is installed the way it is on winpods (with a separate ext3 partition) is because (quote) "FAT32 is not suitable for iPL" |
09:42:43 | linuxstb | So you'll need a /bin in the ramfs as well... |
09:42:58 | DataGhost | on HFS+ iPods the files are just extracted to the HFS+ partition |
09:43:11 | DataGhost | I don't need ramfs? |
09:43:22 | DataGhost | and that's probably not wanted since the kernel can't free memory, afaik :) |
09:43:35 | Kasperle | i think a file-backed fs is just fine |
09:43:35 | DataGhost | I just need /dev /etc /proc and /sbin on FAT32, that's it |
09:43:46 | DataGhost | no need for /bin :) |
09:44:11 | linuxstb | /dev on FAT32? |
09:44:16 | Kasperle | why do you need those folders on FAT32? |
09:44:20 | DataGhost | well, it still wants to mount /dev |
09:44:36 | DataGhost | Kasperle because it needs to boot off fat32, there is no other partition on winpods |
09:44:47 | DataGhost | and the file is on fat32 (in etc) |
09:45:09 | linuxstb | But I didn't think you could have device nodes on fat32? |
09:45:25 | DataGhost | no but devfs is a separate filesystem which is just mounted in that folder |
09:45:42 | DataGhost | oh and yes some device nodes are made, but that happens in /etc/rc (on the ext3 thing) |
09:45:47 | DataGhost | it's not needed :) |
09:45:50 | Kasperle | hmmm |
09:45:54 | DataGhost | for starting iPL in that way* |
09:46:34 | DataGhost | anyway, after it's booted it looks just like a normal iPL installation, so that's very compatible :) |
09:46:37 | Kasperle | heh. booting linux off a loop-device is a bit of a chicken and egg problem ;) |
09:46:47 | DataGhost | yeah but luckily there are tools for that :) |
09:46:53 | linuxstb | But anyway, I think it's a good thing to be doing - it's long overdue. |
09:47:05 | Kasperle | unless you could create some initrd foo that can create the device from a file on FAT32 |
09:47:15 | DataGhost | yeah linuxstb it's mainly needed for the new iPods anyway |
09:47:16 | Kasperle | but i've not used linux in ages |
09:47:17 | GodEater | DataGhost: is anybody besides you still *doing* any development work on iPL ? |
09:47:30 | DataGhost | as you said a few minutes ago, older iPods have iPL installed in the firmware partition |
09:47:30 | * | Kasperle is more of a bsd person |
09:47:43 | DataGhost | newer iPods hibernate right over the iPL install when it's in firmware:( |
09:47:57 | DataGhost | GodEater I don't know.. probably they are |
09:48:15 | GodEater | if they are - they're very quiet about it |
09:48:24 | DataGhost | heh |
09:48:29 | GodEater | I do mean the kernel stuff too - not apps on iPL |
09:48:32 | DataGhost | well actually |
09:48:51 | DataGhost | yes the kernel.. it works on every iPod now, so there's no real push to release a new one |
09:49:06 | DataGhost | they are working on an experimental kernel but I don't know how active that is |
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09:49:56 | DataGhost | I do know that some people are looking into some issues |
09:50:02 | DataGhost | but that's all I know |
09:50:40 | DataGhost | after I'm done with this, the tasks I know about are freeing memory and getting 64MB memory on iPods that support it |
09:50:49 | DataGhost | the rockbox patch for 64MB ram doesn't work with iPL |
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09:51:52 | DataGhost | it does do something, though |
09:52:23 | DataGhost | I couldn't see any difference so I changed the value to something random in the asm code |
09:52:38 | DataGhost | it took me some time to figure out that it caused memory corruption :P |
09:52:47 | DataGhost | I thought I trashed my filesystem once again |
09:53:00 | DataGhost | turned out to be the kernel and the modification I totally forgot about |
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09:59:30 | pondlife | LinusN: I'll put 5 Euros a year towards your salary |
10:00 |
10:00:02 | LinusN | pondlife: how generous :-P |
10:00:05 | pondlife | lol |
10:00:18 | pondlife | Now you need another 20000 people like me |
10:00:30 | pondlife | urgh |
10:01:20 | pondlife | Anyway back on topic - why does left-exit from a numeric/range setting display Cancelled, whereas doing the same on an option setting does not? |
10:01:30 | pondlife | One for Jdgordon I suppose |
10:02:38 | pondlife | (I mean if the setting isn't changed, for the record.) |
10:03:00 | LinusN | i think it should never cancel |
10:03:18 | LinusN | but that's me |
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10:12:26 | JdGordon | well i still cant bloody connect to svn.rockbox :'( has anyone got an ssh server they dont mind me using? Or someone want to commit root menu for me? |
10:12:51 | GodEater | TORa TORa TORa |
10:13:22 | JdGordon | i tried it.. |
10:13:29 | JdGordon | how do you get svn to go over it? |
10:13:51 | GodEater | no clue - never used it =/ |
10:14:01 | GodEater | as I understood it, anything should work over it |
10:14:41 | GodEater | JdGordon: PM |
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10:23:03 | DataGhost | wow. |
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10:23:07 | DataGhost | microsoft really did it |
10:23:14 | DataGhost | I just got another one of those technet newsletters |
10:23:20 | JdGordon | did what? |
10:23:23 | DataGhost | this time I actually took the time to quickly skim through it |
10:23:29 | DataGhost | there's a comic in there... but it's not funny |
10:23:33 | DataGhost | :') |
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10:31:27 | bluebrother | JdGordon: I guess you'll need to configure svn to use your localhost proxy in .subversion/servers |
10:32:02 | JdGordon | its all good now |
10:32:10 | bluebrother | even better :) |
10:32:30 | JdGordon | svn. is still unreachable.. but im going through a ssh server so i can at least commit |
10:34:41 | amiconn | markun: The mAh setting is actually useful, so why should we remove it? |
10:34:55 | amiconn | And btw, the setting exists on all rockbox targets |
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10:40:03 | GodEater | amiconn: who is it useful to ? |
10:41:29 | amiconn | Well, it's used for battery runtime estimation and charging time estimation |
10:42:01 | amiconn | ...and since you can have different batteries installed, the setting isn't constant |
10:46:35 | GodEater | yes but I can't remember the last time someone who asked about it on the forums was answered with anything other than "it hasn't been calibrated for your target, so it's pointless" |
10:47:10 | GodEater | so what I'm asking is - which targets does it work properly on, and which ones doesn't it ? |
10:48:54 | amiconn | There is no much point in calibrating for ipods until the runtime issues get sorted |
10:49:00 | JdGordon | patch is fucked on this server :'( |
10:49:20 | amiconn | For some others it's just not done yet |
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10:52:26 | GodEater | is there a list of targets it HAS been calibrated for ? |
10:52:40 | pondlife | JdGordon: Quick settings question? |
10:52:52 | GodEater | and I think there's EVERY point calibrating it for iPods since we have not even a vague clue of when the runtime issues are likely to get sorted |
10:53:36 | pondlife | It still needs recalibrating for H300, doesn't it? |
10:53:51 | n1s | pondlife: sure does |
10:53:56 | pondlife | I can do that if there's a procedure... |
10:54:16 | pondlife | i.e. standard file type/bitrate? |
10:54:23 | DataGhost | let's hope this isn't any ordinary infinite loop and that access is actually performing something that'll end with a usable result |
10:54:28 | JdGordon | pondlife: only if your very quick.. or can wait an hour? |
10:54:28 | DataGhost | and let's hope it's done after my shower :P |
10:54:35 | pondlife | Very quick |
10:54:39 | amiconn | pondlife: Just run a battery benchmark, preferably with our kinda-standard 192kbps mp3 |
10:55:02 | amiconn | Ideally we'd need such benchmarks from more than one unit of a type |
10:55:08 | pondlife | JdGordon: When I go into a numeric setting and exit without changing, it displays cancelled. Is this a bug? |
10:55:38 | pondlife | It doesn't do that for option settings unless the selection changed. |
10:55:46 | amiconn | There are a couple of currents to calibrate, one of which is the backlight current |
10:56:02 | amiconn | Not sure about what brightness we should measure at |
10:56:04 | JdGordon | pondlife: you sure? I thought it did that for everything... |
10:56:14 | JdGordon | we decided left will accept so that will be fixed |
10:56:19 | pondlife | No!! |
10:56:19 | JdGordon | but I have to run off now |
10:56:24 | pondlife | Left cannot accept |
10:56:25 | JdGordon | hehe |
10:56:38 | JdGordon | back in an hour or so |
10:56:44 | * | pondlife trusts you are joking, good luck in all you do! |
10:57:35 | BigBambi | I find the battery setting useful in my H140 - I have a 2200 mAh battery installed, and changing the setting in rockbox gives a much better estimation of runtime |
10:58:18 | pondlife | amiconn: OK, so just run battery_bench from full to death with a set of 192kbps mp3s? Backlight won't be involved in that much, so I assume you'd measure that seperately somehow? |
10:58:46 | pondlife | This is with a standard battery, about 9 months old but seems to be holding up ok |
10:59:12 | amiconn | If we can't measure that separately, we'd need two runs, one without backlight active during playback, and one with backlight on all the time |
10:59:20 | pondlife | OK |
10:59:29 | GodEater | BigBambi: that would imply then that it's been cailbrated for the H1x0 |
10:59:34 | * | amiconn thinks he already did such benchmarks a while back |
10:59:41 | amiconn | Have to dig up the files... |
10:59:43 | BigBambi | Yes, afaik |
11:00 |
11:00:15 | pondlife | amiconn: OK, I'll do a run anyway, the more the merrier. |
11:00:27 | pondlife | (2 runs - backlight on/off) |
11:00:57 | * | amiconn thinks we should probably take backlight brightness into account on H300 and X5 |
11:01:28 | amiconn | LinusN: Do you have some wires attached to a H300 so you can measure current consumption? |
11:02:04 | LinusN | yes i have, at home |
11:02:43 | amiconn | Could you measure current consumption of the backlight versus brightness setting? |
11:03:06 | LinusN | sure, remind me when i get home :-) |
11:04:20 | amiconn | And could you also do the same for X5? |
11:05:20 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
11:09:03 | | Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
11:09:57 | LinusN | hmmm, maybe |
11:10:26 | BigBambi | Everyone wish me luck - I have to use the OF :( Some muppet has given me some reports in WMA I have to listen to |
11:10:37 | LinusN | enjoy :-) |
11:10:45 | BigBambi | I certainly won't |
11:11:02 | BigBambi | The interminable wait to start up is the current problem, but there will be more |
11:11:26 | fejfighter | i used the h300 of for a little today... and thanked the guys and girls here for their hard work... |
11:13:48 | XavierGr | pondlife of course left will be accept, it always have been that way, someone changed it to cancel and it plain, annoying confusing and unintuitive |
11:14:00 | XavierGr | +is |
11:14:06 | BigBambi | I agree |
11:14:44 | XavierGr | back = not cancel |
11:14:51 | XavierGr | back = I want to go in the previous menu |
11:14:55 | * | n1s doesn't see it as 'accept' but more as 'leave setting without cancelling' but yeah |
11:14:55 | XavierGr | STOP = cancel |
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11:15:17 | XavierGr | n1s that too |
11:16:45 | preglow | Kasperle: so did i, heh |
11:19:43 | pondlife | XavierGr: Left = go back without changing setting |
11:20:00 | pondlife | STOP is awkward to use |
11:20:09 | pondlife | Better to stick to just the arrows if possibl |
11:20:10 | pondlife | e |
11:20:26 | pondlife | What device do you use? |
11:20:29 | n1s | pondlife: how often do you cancel a setting change? |
11:20:32 | XavierGr | H100/H300 |
11:20:38 | XavierGr | cancle is very rare to use |
11:20:49 | pondlife | I don't think if it as cancel. |
11:20:54 | XavierGr | though left = go back with the setting value you left |
11:21:02 | XavierGr | that was like that all the time |
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11:21:05 | pondlife | But I do often want to look at settings without changing them |
11:21:07 | XavierGr | I still don't get it why it was changed |
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11:21:23 | pondlife | I didn't know it had been changed, it always seemed intuitive to me |
11:21:24 | XavierGr | let me tell you another example |
11:21:30 | XavierGr | you just want to look at the value |
11:21:41 | XavierGr | right now you will have to press right to see the value then right to exit again |
11:21:48 | XavierGr | then left to go to the previous menu |
11:21:50 | pondlife | No |
11:21:52 | XavierGr | that is just horrible |
11:21:59 | pondlife | Just press RIGHT or SELECT once |
11:22:17 | pondlife | I'm running with the root_menu patch, maybe it's changed? |
11:22:19 | XavierGr | yeah but then if you want to go further back you will have to press left |
11:22:36 | pondlife | ? |
11:22:48 | pondlife | Sorry, I don't understand |
11:22:50 | XavierGr | previous the option menu that you are in I mean |
11:23:15 | XavierGr | navigation should stick to left/right without having to wait for spash screens etc |
11:23:20 | pondlife | OK, I go into an option menu and want to change an option, so I select the new option and press RIGHT |
11:23:28 | pondlife | It goes back out immediately, without a splash |
11:23:29 | XavierGr | yes |
11:23:37 | XavierGr | but if you push left |
11:23:50 | XavierGr | it cancels you get the spash |
11:24:07 | XavierGr | and then exits the option |
11:24:09 | pondlife | If I push left it should not change the option. |
11:24:33 | pondlife | The splash should only be displayed if I had selected another option, but there is a bug where it displays too often |
11:24:48 | XavierGr | if you changed an option and don't want to change it then that's what stop is for |
11:24:53 | pondlife | You already have both RIGHT and SELECT/NAVI to change |
11:24:53 | XavierGr | because that is rare |
11:24:57 | pondlife | No STOP is to stop playback |
11:25:19 | pondlife | STOP and PLAY are not involved in the menus |
11:25:20 | XavierGr | well I don't agree with that at all |
11:25:31 | XavierGr | canceling an option is just so rare |
11:25:39 | pondlife | It's not Cancelling |
11:25:42 | pondlife | It's leaving |
11:25:45 | XavierGr | but navigating fast is very common |
11:26:07 | pondlife | Just press RIGHT or SELECT , it works very fast |
11:26:10 | * | linuxstb finds left-to-cancel 100% intuitive |
11:26:30 | * | n1s finds it 100% stupis :-P |
11:26:32 | XavierGr | :D |
11:26:37 | n1s | s/d/ |
11:26:48 | * | linuxstb also knows his brain is wired differently to everyone else when it comes to the Rockbox UI so has given up |
11:26:52 | XavierGr | back != cancel |
11:26:59 | * | pondlife is the same as linuxstb then |
11:27:09 | pondlife | IT'S NOT CANCEL!! |
11:27:13 | pondlife | Sorry to shout |
11:27:25 | XavierGr | but right now it is |
11:27:27 | pondlife | The splash is annoying |
11:27:33 | pondlife | That is a bug though |
11:27:37 | pondlife | I will fix it |
11:27:42 | fejfighter | for me its oops wrong setting i want to go back ie left |
11:27:50 | n1s | heh, I try to stay out of as many UI discussions as I can because they always turn into an agument about opinnions.... |
11:28:01 | pondlife | For me it's I want to leave without risking an accidental change |
11:28:07 | linuxstb | The splash is good, because cancel is a rare action, and it's good to get confirmation that your change hasn't happened. |
11:28:21 | pondlife | Yes, but it shouldn't display if you didn't change |
11:28:22 | XavierGr | for me it is I want to get back whatever the option is now |
11:28:26 | pondlife | That's the bug |
11:29:03 | n1s | for me it's like change setting, press left "cancelled" darn, go back change again press select, I will *never* use right to go back *never*!!111 :-P |
11:29:17 | XavierGr | exactly |
11:29:21 | XavierGr | I get this all the time |
11:29:33 | XavierGr | I want to change a setting and I always get the splash screen |
11:29:51 | linuxstb | Then the splash screen is doing its job... |
11:30:11 | XavierGr | yeah that's why my preference is STOP = cancle |
11:30:15 | XavierGr | cancel too |
11:30:22 | linuxstb | Not all targets have a STOP button though. |
11:30:25 | pondlife | So how do I stop playback? |
11:30:37 | XavierGr | in the menu? |
11:30:48 | n1s | we can use rec to cancel if we don't want to use stop tho |
11:30:55 | pondlife | Urgh |
11:30:57 | XavierGr | that couldnt be done in the old days and right now too (I think) |
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11:31:00 | linuxstb | Not all targets have REC... |
11:31:18 | pondlife | Think of the visually impaired too. |
11:31:40 | n1s | linuxstb: we could use right :-) |
11:31:46 | XavierGr | the confusing part is that I have to press Right to go back in the menu |
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11:31:57 | linuxstb | nls: Which makes no sense at all.... |
11:31:57 | XavierGr | (and apply my change) |
11:32:04 | pondlife | Right/Select are both SELECT |
11:32:24 | pondlife | i.e. they perform a sensible action on the highlighted option. |
11:32:41 | pondlife | In this case, it's most sensible to take that setting on. |
11:33:11 | amiconn | linuxstb: Before button actions, Left and Right worked the same in settings (as well as play/select on targets where that exists as a center button) |
11:33:12 | BigBambi | I dislike left to cancel mainly because it was for ages left to accept, and I got used to it |
11:33:25 | XavierGr | that too |
11:33:30 | amiconn | ...and Stop/Off was cancel, as cancelling a setting is a rare operation |
11:33:31 | pondlife | I used to prefer that too, but am now used to the new way |
11:33:35 | BigBambi | I could learn this I suppose, but as has been said, the most annoying thing is the bloody splash |
11:33:46 | XavierGr | I fully agree with amiconn on that |
11:33:52 | XavierGr | cancel needs a special button |
11:34:04 | XavierGr | in all GUIs back is not changing the options you changed |
11:34:15 | XavierGr | in most rather |
11:34:18 | BigBambi | I would vote for the original left and right both accept, but I don't really care ;) |
11:34:19 | linuxstb | What about targets without a dedicated STOP/OFF button? For example, on ipods a long-press on PLAY/PAUSE isn't an intuitive way to cancel a setting. |
11:34:25 | amiconn | Cancel should be stop or off depending on target, and probably rec on X5 |
11:34:34 | pondlife | I like left on H300 though |
11:34:38 | pondlife | ;) |
11:35:10 | pondlife | It's like the file browser. I decided not to play that track.. |
11:35:35 | pondlife | Anyway, in other key map news... does anyone know the key combo to display the pitch screen on H300 WPS? |
11:35:40 | BigBambi | pondlife: just kill the splash and I'll change my position and agree with you! |
11:35:49 | pondlife | Only the unneeded splash |
11:35:52 | BigBambi | yeah |
11:35:55 | pondlife | Yep |
11:35:57 | linuxstb | I just think we have the three most consistently available buttons (left/right/select) doing the same thing is a waste... |
11:36:15 | linuxstb | s/we have/having/ |
11:36:19 | amiconn | The splash isn't unneeded, *especially* when cancel stays on that unintuitive 'Left' button |
11:36:35 | pondlife | No, it is unneeded if you didn't change anything |
11:36:40 | pondlife | That's when it's annoying |
11:36:54 | pondlife | Compare a numeric setting to an option.. |
11:36:57 | BigBambi | It really slows down navigation (when not changing anything) |
11:36:57 | linuxstb | pondlife: Only if you _know_ you didn't change anything. |
11:37:10 | linuxstb | And how does Rockbox know what you know? |
11:37:19 | markun | amiconn: useful for what? |
11:37:38 | BigBambi | linuxstb: because you didn't go up or down the list? |
11:37:38 | JdGordon | linuxstb: we can easily remeber the value it started in |
11:37:51 | pondlife | We already do, it just doesn't quite work properly |
11:38:08 | * | JdGordon gone again |
11:38:18 | linuxstb | BigBambi: So if you move down, and then back to the old option, the splash should appear? |
11:38:19 | preglow | so, how fares root menu commital? |
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11:38:41 | * | pondlife gone too |
11:38:46 | BigBambi | linuxstb: ideally no, but I don't know how hard it is to code |
11:38:54 | markun | amiconn: if it is we shouldn't remove it of course, but I thought it was only used in runtime calculation, which I think is not working very well on SWCODEC targets |
11:39:06 | BigBambi | If you haven't changed anything, you haven't really cancelled and don't need to be told |
11:39:21 | BigBambi | Is it possible to remember the setting on entering the screen and compare it? |
11:39:41 | amiconn | markun: It is working if it's calibrated |
11:39:44 | XavierGr | markun: what's wrong with runtime calculation? |
11:39:52 | preglow | amiconn: depends on your habits |
11:39:55 | XavierGr | it is working perfectly for H100/H300 at least |
11:40:05 | | Part norbusan |
11:40:10 | preglow | if you're like me switching wildly between ogg, flac and mp3, you won't get very good readings |
11:40:11 | amiconn | preglow: Sure does, it's an estimation not a prediction |
11:40:38 | XavierGr | even if it is a wrong estimation I still think it is good that exists |
11:40:46 | markun | I don't see how it is better indication of the runtime than just looking at the battery percentage.. |
11:40:48 | preglow | i'd just as soon remove the entire feature |
11:40:56 | preglow | the battery reading is pretty much all i need |
11:41:10 | XavierGr | well some people like other things :P |
11:41:12 | preglow | markun: agreed... |
11:41:33 | XavierGr | I always use it to see something more than the battery meter |
11:41:35 | amiconn | Runtime estimation does *not* only take the percentage into account |
11:41:37 | markun | also depends on the age of the battery |
11:41:54 | markun | and if you have dircache on or not and how much you browse |
11:42:21 | XavierGr | I still think it is a nice feature to have |
11:42:33 | XavierGr | not only that but it can always be extened to be more accurate |
11:42:37 | markun | amiconn: ok, I'll take a look at the code then before I say anything stupid :) |
11:42:49 | preglow | i still only just look at the battery level |
11:43:20 | XavierGr | preglow that sounded more like amiconn :P |
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11:44:09 | preglow | haha |
11:44:19 | preglow | for me the runtime estimation is just not any good |
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12:00 |
12:03:07 | markun | amiconn: wouldn't it make more sense to look only at the average time it takes for the battery percentages to drop and discard the mAh value? |
12:10:39 | JdGordon | ok. here we go! |
12:10:45 | * | linuxstb spots a cheeky commit from pondlife... |
12:11:10 | markun | preglow: octave is pretty nice! |
12:11:13 | markun | thanks |
12:14:11 | | Quit inversions (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
12:14:20 | amiconn | markun: Auto-calibrating runtime estimation would be nice, but no one got around coding that yet |
12:14:29 | amiconn | And the powermgmt code is a mess... |
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12:15:02 | markun | amiconn: I'll put it on my todo list, maybe when I have some time |
12:17:41 | pondlife | Looks like the root menu is in SVN... |
12:18:00 | hcs | ooh |
12:18:08 | hcs | gotta check that out |
12:18:16 | | Quit fejfighter () |
12:18:30 | decayedcell | hmm recent SVN activity not up yet |
12:18:54 | pondlife | I just happened to be doing an SVN up |
12:18:56 | decayedcell | but a bunch of new files are up :D |
12:19:18 | pondlife | JdGordon: Congratulations are in order! |
12:19:19 | decayedcell | yeah R 12528 |
12:19:29 | decayedcell | website is only at 12527 |
12:19:33 | * | decayedcell starts compiling |
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12:20:02 | JdGordon_ | thanks :) |
12:20:23 | JdGordon_ | i just hope the table stays green... commiting was a bit annoying |
12:20:30 | pondlife | Hope my settings.c commit didn't interfere with it |
12:20:36 | JdGordon_ | nope :) |
12:20:40 | JdGordon_ | well it didnt complain |
12:21:15 | pondlife | Build server seems to be sleepy |
12:21:21 | decayedcell | website is updated |
12:21:23 | * | JdGordon_ was about to ask |
12:21:25 | | Quit perplexity (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
12:21:31 | preglow | markun: i agree |
12:21:50 | pondlife | I wouldn't want to be /dev/null ;p |
12:22:15 | decayedcell | Fm - should the M be capitalised like FM |
12:22:38 | pondlife | Now we just need jhMikeS to commit the new dsp mixer and someone to do metadata on buffer |
12:22:40 | preglow | it it still called the root menu in the menu screen? |
12:22:49 | pondlife | And then we'll have world peace |
12:23:21 | * | pondlife decided he likes "root menu" because it implies a hierarchy... |
12:23:30 | | Join JdGordon__ [0] (n=jonno@c220-237-57-32.smelb1.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
12:23:36 | preglow | JdGordon_: you should read the commit logs more thorougly, HAVE_ALARM_MOD is no longer a correct define |
12:23:52 | preglow | JdGordon_: you now need to use HAVE_RTC_ALARM |
12:23:55 | JdGordon__ | that should have conflicted then? |
12:24:18 | preglow | well, unless my global grep has messed me over |
12:24:22 | * | preglow checks |
12:24:27 | JdGordon__ | na, i tinhk it was my fault |
12:24:42 | JdGordon__ | tree.c didnt patch propelry but my quick skim didnt seee why |
12:25:08 | JdGordon__ | preglow: which file? |
12:25:09 | preglow | yeah, my grep -r finds no HAVE_ALARM_MOD in my tree, at least |
12:25:21 | preglow | root_menu.c ... |
12:26:15 | preglow | btw, did you catch the discussion where we pretty much agreed "root menu" is a bad name?= |
12:26:30 | JdGordon__ | no I dont think so |
12:26:35 | preglow | it implies a hierarchy |
12:26:45 | | Quit JdGordon_ ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
12:26:51 | * | pondlife wants a hierarchy, especially as he can now spell it |
12:26:51 | preglow | hello dolly |
12:26:54 | JdGordon__ | was a better name agreed on? |
12:26:59 | preglow | well |
12:27:02 | pondlife | Main Menu or Rockbox Meenu |
12:27:02 | preglow | we agreed on several names several times :) |
12:27:04 | pondlife | Menu |
12:27:07 | preglow | "main manu", "rockbox menu" |
12:27:10 | preglow | "main rockbox menu" |
12:27:12 | preglow | heh |
12:27:16 | pondlife | Rockbox Main Menu |
12:27:34 | JdGordon__ | root menu works..... when tagcache is renamed in the code ill rename this :p |
12:27:42 | decayedcell | what about just Rockbox |
12:27:59 | pondlife | Good idea |
12:28:04 | preglow | decayedcell: you can't call something "rockbox" in the manual |
12:28:17 | preglow | "You will now be in Rockbox" |
12:28:20 | preglow | well duh :) |
12:28:26 | decayedcell | lol damn |
12:28:28 | pondlife | It would be nice if the root of the file browser (with headings enabled) had "Files" as the heading |
12:28:41 | preglow | isn't it obvious you're looking at files? :> |
12:28:47 | pondlife | Also if Database browser had "Database" rather than "Browse By..." |
12:28:50 | pondlife | Consistency |
12:29:03 | pondlife | Currently it has no heading in the root, only in subdirs |
12:29:22 | preglow | it has a heading in subdirs? |
12:29:29 | pondlife | If configured, yes |
12:29:34 | preglow | ohes |
12:29:37 | JdGordon__ | has the build completed/started yet? |
12:29:39 | pondlife | Obviously no headings if not configured |
12:29:44 | preglow | ghahaaah |
12:29:45 | decayedcell | hmm the top is called Rockbox, not Root Menu |
12:29:54 | preglow | i think i updated without reverting the patch :/// |
12:29:58 | pondlife | No build |
12:30:08 | preglow | decayedcell: yeah, see |
12:30:10 | JdGordon__ | should be Rockbox Menu in the actual display |
12:30:11 | preglow | so it's irrelevant |
12:30:13 | pondlife | Bagder: Kick the build server? |
12:30:21 | preglow | mainly a manual issue |
12:30:35 | * | pondlife hopes JdGordon updated the manual already |
12:30:44 | JdGordon__ | hahahaha |
12:30:45 | JdGordon__ | hahahahahah |
12:30:47 | JdGordon__ | ha |
12:30:49 | JdGordon__ | ha! |
12:30:51 | pondlife | ho |
12:30:59 | JdGordon__ | wait wait.. not done.... |
12:31:02 | JdGordon__ | bahahahahhahaha |
12:31:09 | pondlife | You forgot bwahahaha |
12:31:11 | * | JdGordon__ watches too much family guy |
12:31:22 | * | pondlife never saw it |
12:31:26 | JdGordon__ | :O |
12:31:42 | pondlife | Didn't look very good when I caught 4 mins of it once |
12:31:46 | pondlife | So never bothered again |
12:32:03 | pondlife | Hardly seemed up to Futurama standards |
12:32:11 | preglow | it's fun, not futurama fun, but fun |
12:32:18 | JdGordon__ | agreed |
12:32:19 | hcs | "I'm not finished holding my sides." |
12:32:25 | preglow | updating the manual after introducing stuff is considered A Good Thing, however |
12:32:49 | * | pondlife gets barely enough time to breathe let alone watch TV or read books |
12:32:53 | JdGordon__ | not with my english ablity |
12:32:58 | preglow | haha |
12:33:01 | preglow | people can always fix that |
12:33:09 | pondlife | speelcheckers |
12:33:12 | preglow | but no, it's not a requirement |
12:33:27 | JdGordon__ | speelcheckers? is that making sure the text doesnt drag on and on.... |
12:33:45 | pondlife | alaram ;) |
12:33:58 | pondlife | SVN needs a speelchecker |
12:34:01 | JdGordon__ | hehe i suck :D |
12:34:14 | decayedcell | should Now Playing / Resume Playback be hidden if theres nothing playing? |
12:34:20 | JdGordon__ | no |
12:34:22 | pondlife | No |
12:34:27 | JdGordon__ | resume playback is shown in that case |
12:34:39 | pondlife | You mean if nothing to resume? |
12:34:41 | hcs | likin' the menu, it'll take some getting used to but seems quite cool |
12:34:42 | pondlife | Maybe |
12:35:01 | decayedcell | so to get back to the root menu I press Menu |
12:35:06 | | Quit JdGordon (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
12:35:08 | decayedcell | mm okay |
12:35:21 | pondlife | Hmm, should headings in the file browser have icons displayed when icons are disabled? |
12:35:26 | pondlife | The other headings don't. |
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12:35:39 | hcs | decayedcell: seems like the "back out of menu" button should return to the root menu, doesn't it? |
12:35:55 | decayedcell | hcs hmm yeah it seems logical? |
12:36:04 | pondlife | It does, doesn't it? Which target? |
12:36:08 | decayedcell | iPod |
12:36:17 | decayedcell | say I'm in Database mode, should pressing back go to the root menu |
12:36:19 | hcs | gigabeat |
12:36:22 | pondlife | Ah. It's LEFT on H300 |
12:36:25 | JdGordon__ | decayedcell: no |
12:36:39 | pondlife | Oh, is this commit different to the patch? |
12:36:41 | * | bluebrother noticed some evil laughter |
12:36:51 | pondlife | DOH!# |
12:36:54 | JdGordon__ | that was changed last minute |
12:36:57 | pondlife | I liked left to go back |
12:37:00 | * | JdGordon__ too |
12:37:23 | pondlife | But then, I want a full blown hierarchy and none of the core devs likes that idea. |
12:37:43 | daurnimator | hey JdGordon__ |
12:37:46 | JdGordon__ | hey daurnimator |
12:38:13 | pondlife | Seems inconsistent that other options all go back with a press of left, except Files and Database :( |
12:38:28 | * | decayedcell feels the same |
12:38:41 | pondlife | JdGordon__: Put it back, I dare you ;) |
12:38:50 | LinusN | pondlife: i agree, they should probably not return with Left then ... |
12:38:57 | | Join safetydan [0] (n=dan@rockbox/developer/safetydan) |
12:39:33 | * | JdGordon__ truly wants to start strangling ppl in thie room! |
12:39:38 | pondlife | LinusN: Why not go for the hierarchy model? It will improve consistency and we're almost there. |
12:39:46 | * | daurnimator runs away from JdGordon__ |
12:39:47 | bluebrother | haven't we agreed that "root menu" is a bad name? |
12:40:10 | JdGordon__ | its only root menu in the code... and there is does make sense |
12:40:17 | JdGordon__ | well.. its not a bad name there |
12:40:17 | bluebrother | so why does it appear in that much places ... especially on the front page? |
12:40:21 | bluebrother | *sic* |
12:40:22 | safetydan | JdGordon__, there be warnings in the h120 build after your commit |
12:40:30 | JdGordon__ | thanks safetydan |
12:40:43 | LinusN | pondlife: i could possibly go with the left-to-root, but the browser will still remember the position |
12:40:49 | JdGordon__ | is it on build.rockbox yet? |
12:41:11 | safetydan | JdGordon__, don't think so. root_menu.c:143 and 144 seem to be an issue |
12:41:19 | hcs | LinusN: I'd think left to root only at root of file browser |
12:41:27 | pondlife | LinusN: That would be fine. But I think a bit of thought could resolve this both ways. |
12:41:27 | LinusN | of course |
12:41:39 | pondlife | And database browser |
12:41:48 | LinusN | we should be consistent in either case |
12:41:53 | * | decayedcell boots into windows |
12:41:54 | JdGordon__ | safetydan: ah, damn.. missing a header? |
12:41:56 | hcs | speaking of which, if we have no database... |
12:42:06 | | Part decayedcell |
12:42:07 | LinusN | either we allow Left-to-main in all cases, or none |
12:42:07 | JdGordon__ | you still get the option :) |
12:42:09 | hcs | if *one* has no database |
12:42:18 | safetydan | JdGordon__, no, it's something to do with the RTC define |
12:42:21 | pondlife | hcs: I agree with that - if it's not ready, skip the option. |
12:42:35 | | Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) |
12:42:37 | pondlife | Or make it into Initialise Database |
12:42:40 | JdGordon__ | safetydan: HAVE_RTC_ALARM? or the old one? |
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12:42:52 | pondlife | Hi jhMikeS |
12:42:54 | safetydan | JdGordon__, the define looks okay... but when did h120 get an RTC? |
12:43:04 | JdGordon__ | yesterday |
12:43:05 | LinusN | yesterday |
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12:43:05 | safetydan | JdGordon__, root_menu.c:143: warning: implicit declaration of function `rtc_check_alarm_started' |
12:43:07 | safetydan | oh |
12:43:08 | pondlife | Interesting stuff in the logs about low latency mixing |
12:43:10 | hcs | pondlife: true, but I wouldn't want to start such a lengthy process accidentally, root seems like the wrong place |
12:43:13 | JdGordon__ | yeah, missing a header |
12:43:43 | pondlife | jhMikeS: I especially like your idea of 4 channels |
12:43:51 | pondlife | And the implicit fades |
12:44:02 | DerPapst | i bet someone already complained about it, but it seems that the latest 3 SVN changes haven't been build yet. |
12:44:27 | pondlife | LinusN: Can you kick the build server, or is that Bagder's domain? |
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12:44:50 | safetydan | While I'm here, anyone know a faster way to check if the first four characters of a string are digits? Apart from isdigit(v[0..3]). |
12:44:52 | JdGordon__ | anyone know what .h is needed? I still cant svn up :'( |
12:45:01 | safetydan | JdGordon__, I can fix it, I think it's just missing rtc.h |
12:45:08 | JdGordon__ | ok, thanks |
12:45:19 | pondlife | JdGordon__: Still suffering from Singtel? |
12:45:23 | JdGordon__ | yeah |
12:45:28 | pondlife | bummer |
12:46:13 | pondlife | Ah, wasn't there a build server failure on the 1st Feb too? |
12:46:15 | JdGordon__ | I cant understand how they havnt fixed it yet.... surely svn.rb isnt the only server not accessable any more? |
12:46:37 | pondlife | lol, maybe it's just the one entry wrong! |
12:49:18 | | Join perplexity [0] (n=joust@83.111.189.19) |
12:49:22 | pondlife | Aha - looking at the logs for 1st Feb - "<B4gder> new month today... been a daily reboot I believe". |
12:49:23 | * | amiconn still thinks the H1x0 rtc mod should be disabled by default |
12:49:43 | amiconn | What makes this mod deserve special handling over all others? |
12:49:58 | * | JdGordon__ agrees... but doesnt really care :p |
12:50:00 | * | safetydan agrees with amiconn |
12:50:06 | pondlife | amiconn: Why do I always seem to agree with you? |
12:50:12 | safetydan | How many people are actually going to mod their H1x0? |
12:50:41 | pondlife | If it involves taking the case off, not many |
12:50:46 | LinusN | safetydan: i am |
12:51:07 | BigBambi | I would if I had a chip |
12:51:07 | pondlife | LinusN: But you're a top-level hax0r |
12:51:17 | | Quit perplexity (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
12:51:22 | pondlife | I might if I had an H100 |
12:51:35 | safetydan | LinusN, you're not exactly the typical user :) |
12:51:37 | DerPapst | pondfile: the server is rebooting since at least 4 hours :D |
12:51:48 | BigBambi | Hard to get hold of beasties, those rtc chips |
12:52:08 | | Join perplexity [0] (n=joust@83.111.189.19) |
12:52:14 | pondlife | Aha, build is going.. Thanks whoever! |
12:52:22 | | Quit decayedcell ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
12:53:05 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
12:53:09 | safetydan | hrrm, the changelog for the current build seems a little... off |
12:53:16 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p57B979F9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
12:53:23 | | Join pixelma [0] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
12:53:42 | * | JdGordon__ jumps back onto the vpn to view the build page |
12:53:51 | pondlife | Poor server is still waking up I suspect |
12:53:51 | LinusN | safetydan: still, 14 people have done it so far |
12:54:14 | | Quit w1ll14m (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
12:54:34 | LinusN | pondlife: yes, the build script had stopped, and i had some trouble starting it again |
12:54:35 | pondlife | I fear to see how red the size table has gone... |
12:54:52 | LinusN | and Slasheris server is misbehaving |
12:54:52 | safetydan | well that's my fifteen minutes of rockbox for the week |
12:54:54 | | Quit safetydan ("Ex-Chat") |
12:55:16 | DerPapst | heh |
12:55:17 | | Quit perplexity (Success) |
12:55:22 | LinusN | amiconn: we could of course add a new h100 build for the RTC |
12:55:22 | | Join JdGordon [0] (i=82c20d68@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-42d046df8dd4d23a) |
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12:55:33 | pondlife | Like the 8MB build |
12:55:39 | LinusN | yes |
12:55:41 | pondlife | A much better idea |
12:55:45 | * | pixelma demands an official build for Ondio with backlight mod then, don't mind that some other's will have unused backlight setting then |
12:55:47 | LinusN | why is that a much better idea? |
12:55:51 | JdGordon | no... no more builds.. its too wide as it is |
12:56:06 | | Join perplexity [0] (n=joust@83.111.189.19) |
12:56:06 | pondlife | Because it's more consistent, and removes the 6k from the standard build. |
12:56:23 | * | JdGordon blames any bin size increase on pondlife's commit :D |
12:56:26 | | Quit anathema (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
12:56:29 | LinusN | pondlife: are you really concerned about those 6k? |
12:56:42 | pondlife | I would be if I had an H1x0 |
12:56:50 | pondlife | Every little helps |
12:57:11 | pixelma | LinusN: I'm more concerned about things like the clock plugin for all |
12:57:13 | JdGordon | on the archos yes... not the h100 tho |
12:57:18 | LinusN | pondlife: i can remove 6k from the plugin buffer if you are cooncerned about the audio buffer size |
12:57:38 | pondlife | Will that have any side effects on plugins? |
12:57:41 | pondlife | If no, do it! |
12:57:48 | LinusN | pixelma: now that is a valid point |
12:58:30 | LinusN | that settles it, we should really have two builds |
12:58:32 | pixelma | every H1x0 owner who gets this day's daily will have one |
12:59:06 | JdGordon | no... disable it by default... |
12:59:17 | | Quit perplexity (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
12:59:47 | LinusN | JdGordon: ??? |
12:59:55 | * | pondlife goes out to get JdGordon a wider monitor |
13:00 |
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13:01:07 | JdGordon | pondlife: a 21" laptop would be a bit hard to transport :p |
13:01:10 | | Join perplexity [0] (n=joust@83.111.189.19) |
13:01:59 | pixelma | JdGordon: it's all about resolution.. ;P |
13:02:19 | JdGordon | oh nuts... the player didnt build :'( |
13:02:48 | preglow | the build server looks like it needs a kick in the teeth |
13:03:03 | pondlife | It already had one |
13:03:08 | pondlife | Maybe it needs dentistry |
13:03:17 | | Quit perplexity (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
13:03:29 | JdGordon | no.. gzipng the source takes a while |
13:03:40 | JdGordon | which Im assuming happens at the very end |
13:04:13 | | Join perplexity [0] (n=joust@83.111.189.19) |
13:04:22 | preglow | more than just the player, pal |
13:04:58 | | Join inversions [0] (n=none@cpc3-bele3-0-0-cust660.belf.cable.ntl.com) |
13:05:14 | JdGordon | and ondio FM is red again :'( but oh well |
13:05:21 | preglow | i wonder how many uses the player these days... |
13:05:24 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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13:05:48 | bluebrother | oh, now the ondio also hits space limits? |
13:06:06 | JdGordon | it has been ove for a while |
13:06:11 | JdGordon | just not that far over |
13:06:14 | preglow | oh, so we've got it back again now |
13:06:26 | bluebrother | ah, that issue with it not showing in the build table |
13:06:27 | preglow | i take it we can expect no code space savings from root menu? :/ |
13:06:34 | bluebrother | didn't remember that was the ondio |
13:06:50 | preglow | now what we need is plugin categories |
13:07:05 | pixelma | root menu added ~1600 bytes |
13:07:11 | * | bluebrother points to his attempt on FS |
13:07:17 | | Quit perplexity (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
13:07:23 | markun | JdGordon: there was some code from the file browser which could be removed, right? |
13:07:32 | pixelma | doh... it's already in the size table |
13:07:38 | bluebrother | just use submenus and adjust the build script accordingly |
13:08:13 | preglow | bluebrother: what's the name? |
13:08:18 | pondlife | JdGordon: Could the debug menu be converted to use the new stuff? Would that save some space? |
13:08:37 | | Join perplexity [0] (n=joust@83.111.189.19) |
13:08:54 | XavierGr | the size table is only red except a tiny green block |
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13:09:14 | pondlife | a tiny green block which is not a result of code change |
13:09:34 | JdGordon | pondlife: i doubt there would be a saving there |
13:09:35 | | Join Ribs [0] (n=ribs@91.84.8.218) |
13:09:47 | JdGordon | im going to convert the actual menu backend to make it more consistant |
13:10:06 | pondlife | Just wondered; it's a long menu |
13:10:15 | pixelma | JdGordon: I'm not sure but I think the "new startfile detected" screen has the shift-to-right issue that the runtime and rockbox info screen had |
13:10:46 | pixelma | (since the icons) |
13:11:03 | * | XavierGr goes to make a left != cancel patch for his own preference :( |
13:11:18 | | Quit perplexity (Success) |
13:11:26 | pondlife | XavierGr: The splash should be less annoying now - try it? |
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13:11:35 | XavierGr | yes it will be indeed |
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13:11:46 | XavierGr | but again I can't think I can forget my old habbit so easily |
13:11:56 | pondlife | I did, so it is possible. |
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13:12:30 | | Quit JdGordon__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
13:12:31 | bluebrother | preglow: FS #5464 |
13:12:42 | amiconn | LinusN: Why an extra build? |
13:12:49 | bluebrother | gtg now |
13:12:59 | JdGordon | grr.... whats the pointer > int case for the 64bit builds again? |
13:13:08 | amiconn | And btw, I don't understand why the 8MB build is there; people being able to do the mod should also be able to build on their own |
13:13:29 | JdGordon | and it would save a bit of time doing the builds removing it |
13:13:34 | pondlife | Indeed |
13:14:02 | amiconn | And the rtc mod being enabled for H1x0 has the potential to confuse plain users |
13:14:05 | | Quit perplexity (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
13:14:34 | amiconn | ...because it causes rtc-dependent plugins to be included, which however won't work properly without the actual rtc |
13:14:50 | | Join perplexity [0] (n=joust@83.111.189.19) |
13:14:50 | preglow | amiconn: which is why he decided for a separate build in the first place |
13:15:08 | amiconn | Right now this applies to 'clock', but it will also apply to 'calendar' when that will be added |
13:15:27 | XavierGr | I agree with amiconn about the moded builds |
13:15:38 | XavierGr | there shouldn't be an 8mb build nor an rtc for h100 build |
13:15:46 | amiconn | preglow: You mean like a separate target? |
13:15:53 | JdGordon | does rtc.h need to be #ifdefed for the player? |
13:16:19 | amiconn | The player has no rtc if that's what you're asking |
13:16:32 | | Quit perplexity (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
13:16:32 | preglow | including headers you don't need very seldom hurts |
13:17:09 | | Join perplexity [0] (n=joust@83.111.189.19) |
13:17:16 | | Quit perplexity (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
13:17:59 | JdGordon | no, the player fails for some .h's if its not defined instead of doing nothing like it should |
13:18:02 | | Join perplexity [0] (n=joust@83.111.189.19) |
13:18:06 | amiconn | JdGordon: Player is red because this root menu includes 2 headers which don't exist for player |
13:18:41 | amiconn | JdGordon: It will fail if it can't find the headers of course |
13:18:49 | JdGordon | thats what i meant |
13:18:53 | | Quit courtc (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
13:19:10 | amiconn | ...and apps/recorder/ isn't part of the include path for charcell |
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13:19:13 | XavierGr | what's the shortcut to create another client in linux? |
13:19:54 | * | amiconn thought that JdGordon learnt about pointers and 64 bit meanwhile :/ |
13:20:09 | | Quit perplexity (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
13:20:14 | JdGordon | ill learn eventually |
13:20:26 | preglow | it's not hard to remember |
13:20:53 | | Join perplexity [0] (n=joust@83.111.189.19) |
13:22:00 | JdGordon | sweet :) 1pm start tomorow... no need to wake up early |
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13:24:20 | XavierGr | now let me see that root menu feature :P |
13:24:54 | linuxstb | pondlife: I still think it's more consistent for the cancel splash to appear every time you press the cancel button - e.g. if you move the cursor down then back to the original value. If you don't want the cancel splash, don't press the cancel button... |
13:25:09 | pondlife | It's not a cancel button |
13:25:12 | pondlife | It's a back button |
13:25:34 | markun | does anyone know how to repair a FAT32 drive with win2k? |
13:25:47 | markun | Is there some fsck like tool? |
13:25:56 | GodEater | chkdsk |
13:26:07 | pondlife | linuxstb: Besides it didn't always appear once I had the root_menu patch applied, for some reason. |
13:26:11 | markun | GodEater: thanks |
13:26:15 | GodEater | np |
13:26:37 | linuxstb | pondlife: I guess that's where we disagree - it's cancel in my mind. |
13:26:37 | pondlife | Fair enough |
13:26:48 | XavierGr | so lets change it to leave the settings as they were instead :D |
13:26:49 | pondlife | I see the splash as a warning that you might have lost a change. |
13:26:58 | pondlife | So no need to warn if no change made |
13:27:17 | preglow | so "back" doesn't cancel anymore either? |
13:27:25 | pondlife | ? |
13:27:25 | XavierGr | it does |
13:27:41 | pondlife | It just doesn't warn if you hadn't changed the option. |
13:27:49 | XavierGr | it just won't show a splash if you didn't change anything |
13:27:50 | preglow | ah, that's ok |
13:27:56 | | Part DerPapst |
13:28:08 | preglow | just thought it didn't tell you if you actually cancelled |
13:28:08 | pondlife | I know better than to change the button maps ;) |
13:28:10 | preglow | and that would be bad |
13:30:52 | XavierGr | I will have to learn all those actions I keep pressing the wrong buttons to navigate |
13:31:06 | JdGordon | Bagder: can you get it to start the source gzip before the compiles start (in a seperate thread) instead of doing it after they are finished? |
13:31:10 | * | JdGordon is imaptient :p |
13:33:10 | preglow | take it easy |
13:33:10 | XavierGr | so lets say that I am in the root menu, except selecting the Files option isn't there any other way to go to the file browser? |
13:33:29 | LinusN | amiconn: 2 builds because it |
13:33:54 | LinusN | is convenient to not have to build your own, and to see if a commit breaks the h100 rtc support |
13:34:30 | preglow | he does raise a valid point with the 8 meg mod build, btw, can we drop that? :> |
13:34:31 | amiconn | With the same reasoning all the other mods should get their own builds... |
13:34:36 | preglow | it's hard to break that build |
13:34:42 | amiconn | Would make the number of builds explode |
13:34:58 | preglow | it should depend on how popular a mod is too, if you ask me |
13:35:04 | preglow | the h120 rtc mod seems to be fairly popular |
13:35:06 | LinusN | what other mods? |
13:35:13 | amiconn | How do you measure popularity? |
13:35:31 | amiconn | LinusN: autorock, Ondio backlight, alarm on recv1, ... |
13:36:05 | JdGordon | autorock should be enabled by default imo |
13:36:05 | LinusN | popular == more than X people are using it regularly |
13:36:22 | JdGordon | even tho i doubt anyone ever uses it :p |
13:36:26 | preglow | autorkc+ |
13:36:27 | amiconn | More than X in relation to the total number of users for a target? |
13:36:32 | preglow | autorock? <- |
13:36:54 | JdGordon | auto start a plugin named autorock.rock in plugins |
13:36:58 | JdGordon | on boot |
13:37:00 | LinusN | amiconn: no, X in total |
13:37:07 | preglow | why the hell would you want that? |
13:37:45 | amiconn | preglow: The main purpose was [IDC]Dragons alpine cdc emulator |
13:37:58 | amiconn | s/was/is/, probably |
13:38:00 | preglow | sounds like the only one to me |
13:38:07 | LinusN | and bluechips MDB hack |
13:38:13 | linuxstb | Maybe some people only use Rockbox for Doom... |
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13:38:24 | preglow | haven't heard too much from bluechip lately |
13:38:26 | XavierGr | linuxstb: it seems so :P |
13:38:30 | JdGordon | the sansa cant dio anything else.. so why not? :D |
13:39:28 | preglow | i don't think building all mods is a bad idea, really, but it shouldn't happen at every commit |
13:39:44 | preglow | but then we'd need a build table for that too, which probably is a bit of a bother |
13:39:49 | linuxstb | That's good for checking broken builds though... |
13:39:51 | XavierGr | so if you are in the root menu there is no button to go in the file browser *claps* |
13:40:11 | pondlife | Select Files |
13:40:19 | XavierGr | yeah only that |
13:40:43 | pondlife | How did you end up back in the root menu? Once you've been browsing it should go back there anyway |
13:40:48 | JdGordon | XavierGr: refer to the commit message :) |
13:41:05 | XavierGr | hehe |
13:42:01 | pondlife | JdGordon: This lack of left-to-rootmenu is really annoying though. |
13:42:25 | XavierGr | anyway you can't please all of them indeed |
13:42:34 | pondlife | I will get used to it I guess |
13:42:37 | | Quit perplexity (Connection timed out) |
13:43:07 | XavierGr | what's the main reason that this isn't included again? (left to rootmenu) |
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13:43:32 | pondlife | Because it implies a hierarchy that doesn't exist. |
13:43:47 | pondlife | A bit like the term "root" menu.. |
13:44:23 | pondlife | It would be nice to be able to skip from Database to File system just using the arrow keys.. |
13:44:24 | hcs | seems that the hierarchy is implied by having file browser accessible from a menu |
13:44:29 | XavierGr | JdGordon are you going to adapt the Recording menu on the new systemn too? |
13:45:04 | JdGordon__ | XavierGr: I tihnk im going to cheat and fix the old menu backend to use the new code |
13:45:13 | JdGordon__ | because the recordgin menu is annoying |
13:45:34 | pondlife | Whatever results in simplest code. ;-p |
13:45:52 | | Quit JdGordon ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
13:46:08 | JdGordon__ | exactly |
13:46:11 | | Nick JdGordon__ is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@c220-237-57-32.smelb1.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
13:46:40 | pondlife | p.s Did you see the latest settings bug reports from nls on the forum? |
13:46:49 | XavierGr | JdGordon: The PLAY button will get you to wps anywhere right? |
13:46:57 | JdGordon | yes and yes |
13:47:07 | JdGordon | pondlife: sunday hopefully |
13:47:18 | XavierGr | that doesn't apply for the radio though, if you press play it will get you to the radio (if you are in the root menu) but not if you are anywhere else |
13:47:18 | JdGordon | assuming i can access svn by then |
13:47:27 | JdGordon | correct |
13:47:41 | XavierGr | is that intended? |
13:48:03 | preglow | JdGordon: eh, so we'll have two menu apis then? the new, and then the old which is just hacked to use the new? |
13:48:11 | pondlife | Also info, version, running time and the plugin browser should map PLAY to WPS. |
13:48:18 | JdGordon | play in the menu/browser will take you back to the previous music screen (fm/wps/rec) |
13:48:23 | markun | JdGordon: thanks for the root menu man |
13:48:29 | Shaid | I still can't get to svn either |
13:48:34 | JdGordon | preglow: no, but that will be a quick fix to get consistancy |
13:48:39 | Shaid | so much for routing |
13:48:39 | pondlife | When I say WPS I mean WPS/fm/rec too |
13:48:41 | JdGordon | markun: :) your wlecome |
13:48:58 | preglow | JdGordon: quick fixes are ok as long as they don't stay in the code |
13:49:05 | JdGordon | i agree |
13:49:27 | JdGordon | the problem is all the plugins using the menu code need to be rewriteen which will suck |
13:49:28 | preglow | having two apis is just confusing |
13:49:31 | pondlife | "For now" ;) |
13:49:33 | preglow | true enough |
13:49:47 | | Quit relaxed (Remote closed the connection) |
13:50:02 | LinusN | pondlife: that means that we should make it an option in the configure script |
13:50:23 | pondlife | Yep |
13:50:25 | LinusN | so you won't have to patch config-h120.h to enable it |
13:50:42 | JdGordon | also so a build can be automated.. |
13:50:45 | XavierGr | JdGordon: Bug, you are right it will go to fm screen again on all ocations except if you are browsing plugins |
13:50:45 | pondlife | Just a -DxxxI assume |
13:50:50 | LinusN | JdGordon: exactly |
13:50:57 | JdGordon | XavierGr: intended behaviour |
13:51:03 | XavierGr | why? |
13:51:04 | pondlife | JdGordon: how? |
13:51:10 | XavierGr | everywhere else it works |
13:51:14 | JdGordon | play in the plugin browser does nothing |
13:51:22 | LinusN | why? |
13:51:25 | pondlife | It should do the same as in the menus |
13:51:28 | JdGordon | I copyied svn behaviour there... we can change it tho |
13:51:39 | JdGordon | did the last build come out green? |
13:51:41 | LinusN | we should change it |
13:51:48 | pondlife | Also info, version, running time are the same. |
13:52:01 | LinusN | version is a plugin |
13:52:03 | JdGordon | they might be harder to change |
13:52:08 | XavierGr | yeah JdGordon is right, it does that only in the plugin browser |
13:52:11 | XavierGr | please fix it |
13:52:16 | JdGordon | but anyway.. the code is in svn now.. not your selves out :) |
13:52:18 | pondlife | OK, thought I'd mention it from a UI p-o-v. |
13:52:22 | XavierGr | because the plugin browser is just a shortcut of a folder |
13:53:59 | LinusN | that check was there to prevent recursion in the menus |
13:54:10 | LinusN | and that recursion is gone now |
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13:54:15 | XavierGr | all in all root menu is very nice, though I must have some time with it to manage to get a grip into it |
13:54:17 | JdGordon | look for ACTION_TREE_WPS in tree.c and remove the checks around that section is all that is needed |
13:54:24 | LinusN | JdGordon: commit coming up |
13:54:48 | pondlife | The poor build server will be worn out :-) |
13:54:55 | XavierGr | the most good thing about root menu is that it manages to standarlize keypresses |
13:55:01 | pondlife | Yep |
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13:55:07 | JdGordon | well it tries too... |
13:55:21 | XavierGr | though I still hate the left = cancel behaviour :P |
13:55:33 | JdGordon | thats not really so easy to fix.. |
13:55:34 | LinusN | XavierGr: me too |
13:55:37 | JdGordon | its a keymap issue |
13:56:01 | pondlife | On a H300 it's nice, it allows navigation without leaving the arrow keys. |
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13:56:23 | JdGordon | mostly because do_set_setting() uses the wrong context.. but if that changes it would be easy to fix |
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13:56:39 | XavierGr | pondfile it seems that you cancel too much! |
13:56:45 | XavierGr | ehm pondlife too |
13:56:49 | pondlife | No, I view |
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13:57:14 | JdGordon | LinusN: you like the idea of inline settings didnt you? |
13:57:15 | amiconn | pondlife: Why do you need cancel if you only view anyway? |
13:57:16 | pondlife | I want to navigate setting just like files |
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13:57:24 | pondlife | Left is to get back |
13:57:28 | XavierGr | then left = accept isn't harming your habbits |
13:57:41 | pondlife | Left = accept would seem weird to me |
13:57:50 | pondlife | SELECT or right I can understand. |
13:57:55 | amiconn | accept isn't the correct work, because most settings are live anyway |
13:58:04 | amiconn | s/work/word/ |
13:58:07 | pondlife | True |
13:58:14 | XavierGr | the only point taken now is that STOP stops music now |
13:58:16 | pondlife | OK, so left to exit with retain would be ok |
13:58:21 | amiconn | And cancel isn't really cancel, but revert |
13:58:22 | XavierGr | (that wasn't the case before the root menu) |
13:58:22 | pondlife | STOP must still stop music though |
13:58:33 | pondlife | and MENU take you to the menu. |
13:58:46 | pondlife | So no buttons left? |
13:58:52 | amiconn | Stop never stopped music in the menus... |
13:58:57 | pondlife | It does now |
13:59:01 | XavierGr | well it does now |
13:59:04 | amiconn | urgh |
13:59:14 | XavierGr | and that isn't bad from my point of view |
13:59:18 | JdGordon | stop doesnt stop in the setting screens tho |
13:59:23 | XavierGr | it is always good to have as many shortcuts as we can |
13:59:26 | pondlife | Doesnt' it? |
13:59:31 | pondlife | I thought it did most places... |
13:59:31 | JdGordon | it shouldnt |
13:59:32 | XavierGr | ? |
13:59:36 | XavierGr | I thought it id |
13:59:44 | pondlife | It does here |
13:59:49 | JdGordon | oh? hmm |
13:59:51 | XavierGr | yeah here too |
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14:00 |
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14:00:30 | pondlife | Consistency across setttings menus and browsers. A Good Thing IMHO |
14:00:31 | pixelma | doesn't on Ondio - it cancels the menu what I would expect, too |
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14:00:50 | XavierGr | cancels the menu? |
14:00:50 | JdGordon | pondlife: inside the settin screen... off really stops music? |
14:00:51 | pondlife | What keys does the Ondio have? |
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14:01:06 | pixelma | cancels the settings |
14:01:11 | XavierGr | JdGordon on H100/H300 it does |
14:01:16 | pondlife | JdGordon: Yes, on H300 |
14:01:30 | pixelma | Ondio has: arrow keys / mode / off |
14:01:55 | XavierGr | so what happens when you press off in menu pixelma? |
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14:02:11 | JdGordon | fark... i dont have svn code here... it shoudlnt.. and ill fix this when i can.. |
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14:02:21 | JdGordon | im giong to bed.. gnite all |
14:02:21 | pondlife | JdGordon: Leave it, it's nice! |
14:02:27 | pondlife | Goodnight |
14:02:28 | XavierGr | hehe |
14:02:34 | XavierGr | Night Jd |
14:02:35 | JdGordon | or ill leave it :p |
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14:02:48 | XavierGr | though it must be consistent on all targets |
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14:03:06 | pixelma | XavierGr: it goes up one level - when in the "sound menu" for example, "off" goes back to the "settings menu" |
14:03:11 | pondlife | It should be, but most important is consistency across a single target. |
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14:03:20 | pondlife | Same as left on the H300 then |
14:03:22 | LinusN | pondlife: agreed |
14:03:34 | pondlife | pixelma: What does left do in an option? |
14:03:35 | XavierGr | pixelma so what happens if you press left? |
14:03:39 | pondlife | :) |
14:03:46 | XavierGr | :D |
14:04:45 | pixelma | does the same - it's just that I don't know if the settings was cancelled or accepted... (because there's no splash anymore) |
14:05:31 | XavierGr | pixelma the splash will apear if you change a setting and then press left |
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14:05:42 | XavierGr | but I wonder why it is different on H100/H300 |
14:06:01 | pixelma | ok - it's cancelled too |
14:06:20 | XavierGr | so 2 buttons to cancel on ondio |
14:06:22 | pondlife | So OFF could perform stop there too. |
14:06:26 | XavierGr | yeah |
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14:07:12 | Domonoky | barrywardell_: did you have any success with rbutil on H10 ? |
14:08:20 | pixelma | left = cancel annoys me though, and if the "off" button behaviour will be changed then I'll find myself stopping music all the time unintentionally.. |
14:09:08 | pondlife | You get used to it. |
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14:09:54 | pixelma | then you could get used to "left = accept" too ;) |
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14:10:12 | pondlife | But how would I cancel? |
14:10:28 | pondlife | STOP = stop still, remember... |
14:11:04 | pondlife | Settings is just another browser as far as my brain is concerned! |
14:11:21 | pixelma | actually I would never expect that I could operate music when I'm not in the wps/radio... |
14:11:45 | * | pondlife has been running the root menu for too long maybe... |
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14:12:56 | XavierGr | and that makes me wonder, where the hell is my ondio FM? |
14:13:10 | XavierGr | I am still waiting for it to arrive at the post office |
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14:13:18 | BigBambi | I don't like stop stopping music in menus - I kep stopping music instead of quitting the menu - it's hard to change when for years it has been the other way |
14:13:20 | LinusN | pixelma: i agree with you, i don't really see the reason to be able to stop the music in every screen |
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14:13:45 | pondlife | I agree that there's no big need, but the UI feels better to me this way. |
14:13:46 | LinusN | especially now, when it has become so easy to reach the wps |
14:14:12 | BigBambi | but then, I also dislike left to cancel |
14:14:23 | LinusN | me too |
14:14:26 | pondlife | Why? |
14:14:43 | pondlife | Because the settings are "live", right? |
14:14:47 | pondlife | I understand that. |
14:14:48 | LinusN | yes |
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14:15:08 | pixelma | XavierGr: you haven't received it yet? makes me feel bad... |
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14:15:14 | LinusN | (and because rockbox didn't behave like that in the good old days :-) |
14:15:14 | BigBambi | yes, live settings, and because I've been using rockbox for a couple of years and it changed not long ago - old habits and all that |
14:15:24 | pondlife | OndioFM build no longer fits in ROM. |
14:15:37 | pondlife | We have another red Archos build :( |
14:15:38 | XavierGr | pixelma: yeah I am still waiting for it, I will email the sender again after the end of this week |
14:16:03 | pixelma | pondlife: that was broken before (just didn't show) |
14:16:08 | pondlife | Ah, ok |
14:16:21 | XavierGr | how many bytes is it off anyway? |
14:16:29 | LinusN | just remove the fm support and it will fit again :-P |
14:16:33 | XavierGr | hehe |
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14:16:59 | pondlife | I don't mind if left accepts. But I like STOP to stop playback for some weird reason. |
14:17:40 | pondlife | Also I would probably cancel a setting change using UP/DOWN then LEFT.... |
14:17:56 | pixelma | pondlife: it feels awkward too (for me) because only right=accept but you are taken one level up in the end |
14:17:56 | BigBambi | doesn't up down go through lists? |
14:18:02 | pondlife | Keeping the thumb on the arrows. |
14:18:16 | BigBambi | oh, i see |
14:18:18 | BigBambi | :) |
14:18:26 | BigBambi | thought you went mad for a minute then |
14:18:33 | pondlife | It has been said before... |
14:18:49 | LinusN | i honestly don't see the immediate need to be able to cancel a setting at all |
14:18:55 | XavierGr | me too |
14:18:59 | pixelma | yeah |
14:19:00 | BigBambi | me too! |
14:19:04 | pondlife | Me too too |
14:19:07 | XavierGr | but it is nice to have on crucial moments |
14:19:16 | preglow | LinusN: good point |
14:19:20 | LinusN | XavierGr: like what? |
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14:19:35 | XavierGr | that you definitely forgot which setting you had and want like mad to revert the change |
14:19:43 | XavierGr | very rare though I agree |
14:19:49 | XavierGr | I could easily live without a cancel |
14:20:19 | LinusN | we should dig up the irc discussions that led to the addition of the cancel feature |
14:20:26 | pondlife | I think I'd prefer it as it is. |
14:20:35 | BigBambi | Didn't it just appear with button actions? |
14:20:38 | LinusN | no |
14:20:42 | BigBambi | ok |
14:20:49 | BigBambi | Was it at that time though? |
14:20:52 | pondlife | There was that horrible tick thing... |
14:20:54 | LinusN | left->cancel was an action thing |
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14:21:05 | XavierGr | I really don't know when it happened |
14:21:09 | LinusN | it was another button before that |
14:21:12 | BigBambi | sorry, that's what i meant |
14:21:41 | XavierGr | one day after I had missed rockbox development for some days I discovered this misbehaviour |
14:21:42 | BigBambi | You mean the addition of being able to cancel at all? - I don't mind that so much, I just don't like it being left |
14:21:56 | XavierGr | cancel was STOP before the change |
14:22:07 | LinusN | makes sense |
14:22:12 | BigBambi | yep |
14:22:15 | pondlife | No |
14:22:19 | XavierGr | but it is true too that it all comes to personal preference |
14:22:19 | BigBambi | i prefer the good old days :) |
14:22:19 | preglow | but i agree i don't really see the point in a cancel action |
14:22:21 | pondlife | I like STOP to mean stop |
14:22:32 | BigBambi | Stop this setting changing? |
14:22:37 | pondlife | Stop playback |
14:22:48 | BigBambi | I know what you mean :) I just disagree |
14:22:57 | LinusN | pondlife: why is it important that Stop stops the playback in all screens? |
14:22:58 | preglow | i see the point, but i don't think i'd miss cancel at all |
14:23:05 | BigBambi | me neither |
14:23:10 | pondlife | Why not? While we have spare buttons, STOP and PLAY could be used for music. |
14:23:13 | preglow | as a matter of fact, the only times i've used it, it's been because of a wrong button press, and left me annoyed |
14:23:20 | BigBambi | I don't mind losing cancel if it means left goes back to how it was |
14:23:27 | preglow | me neither |
14:23:29 | pondlife | LinusN: Consistency I guess |
14:23:30 | preglow | i hate left being cancel |
14:23:35 | pondlife | Just feels right |
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14:23:45 | BigBambi | I also hate left cancel (as I think I've said) |
14:23:49 | LinusN | pondlife: consistency would be that the playback buttons would only work in the playback screen |
14:23:58 | XavierGr | hehe poor pondlife, most poeple here dislike left = cancel |
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14:24:03 | pixelma | hooray for UI discussions :P |
14:24:07 | linuxstb | I could live without a cancel button, but given the choice of LEFT/SELECT/RIGHT being mapped to cancel, I think LEFT makes most sense. |
14:24:08 | XavierGr | indeed |
14:24:09 | pondlife | Well, I can always add an option! |
14:24:10 | pondlife | ;) |
14:24:13 | BigBambi | If only we all had stop playback buttons :) |
14:24:18 | XavierGr | indeed was to pixelma |
14:24:27 | XavierGr | (not linuxstb :P) |
14:25:24 | LinusN | i seem to recall that the cancel setting feature was a Player issue in the beginning |
14:25:25 | XavierGr | though it is true that I find pondlife's points I still can't really like it |
14:25:45 | LinusN | because the player has no arrow buttons |
14:25:57 | LinusN | and Stop is used to leave a menu |
14:26:02 | XavierGr | archos players are the root of evil :P |
14:26:07 | LinusN | hehe |
14:26:10 | pondlife | lol |
14:26:20 | BigBambi | But if they weren't, there might be no rockbox! |
14:26:25 | pondlife | Right to select seems wronger than left to cancel if you ask me |
14:26:25 | XavierGr | exactly |
14:26:32 | LinusN | pondlife: absolutely |
14:26:48 | LinusN | pondlife: but most targets map Select to that function |
14:26:55 | LinusN | (as well as Right) |
14:27:03 | pondlife | Ah, on the H300 maybe it should be SELECT to select and RIGHT does nothinig? |
14:27:09 | LinusN | and Select makes perfect sense to me |
14:27:32 | pondlife | Select means "Do something useful with the highlighted option" |
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14:27:41 | LinusN | i still think that the ui would be simpler without the need to confirm a setting |
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14:27:53 | pondlife | Right only makes sense if there is a sub menu. |
14:27:55 | BigBambi | My reason for left accepting, is because I enter a screen with right, move to the setting I want, and back out again |
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14:28:19 | BigBambi | I agree with right selecting being wrong |
14:28:32 | pondlife | BigBambi: I agree with you totally, but still want to avoid using STOP for cancel. |
14:28:41 | pondlife | I just see STOP/PLAY on there own as music control. |
14:28:45 | LinusN | it's not about Left being "cancel", it's about forcing the user to confirm with either Select or Right |
14:28:48 | BigBambi | Sure, I don't mind that |
14:28:49 | pondlife | s/there/their |
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14:29:05 | LinusN | i think the cancel function should go |
14:29:08 | pondlife | Yep |
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14:29:12 | BigBambi | yep |
14:29:14 | LinusN | (i.e the need to confirm the setting) |
14:29:17 | BigBambi | do it! |
14:29:26 | pondlife | Blimey, if I agree it must be right! |
14:29:28 | pondlife | :) |
14:29:38 | LinusN | i'll let jdgordon do that, so he can take the heat for it :-) :-) :-) |
14:29:38 | pondlife | not RIGHT, I mean correct. |
14:29:48 | BigBambi | ha ha |
14:29:58 | pondlife | OK, just need to delete this bit of the IRC log |
14:30:08 | XavierGr | hahaha |
14:30:08 | pondlife | Noone on today? |
14:30:17 | * | pondlife watches tumbleweed |
14:30:25 | pondlife | There - that should do it |
14:30:29 | BigBambi | LinusN: can you not sneakily commit as JDGordon |
14:30:33 | LinusN | hahaha |
14:30:37 | pondlife | lol |
14:30:42 | pondlife | That's what I do! |
14:30:56 | LinusN | i just had an idea |
14:31:00 | pondlife | If it's more than 4 lines changed I use his credentials |
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14:31:44 | pondlife | Do we have a wiki page with all the keypad layouts anywhere? I can't see one. |
14:31:52 | LinusN | what about letting the UI mark the current setting somehow, so you know what to set it to if you want to revert? |
14:32:13 | XavierGr | ah that's a nice idea indeed |
14:32:27 | BigBambi | Good idea |
14:32:28 | XavierGr | though I don't know how feasible it will be |
14:32:30 | pondlife | Careful, that's how we ended up with that tick that you had to move before exiting... which is how we got here |
14:32:40 | LinusN | yuck |
14:32:51 | pondlife | Remeber that, or was it just in my nightmares? |
14:33:01 | pondlife | Remember, even. |
14:33:02 | BigBambi | just a little mark by the item you were on so you know where to go back to if you want? |
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14:33:09 | LinusN | BigBambi: yes |
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14:33:18 | BigBambi | Sounds a good plan |
14:33:28 | pondlife | Just a little * or something |
14:33:47 | LinusN | well, let's first remove the cancel, then we'll figure out if there really is a need for that |
14:33:58 | BigBambi | good thinking |
14:34:01 | pixelma | LinusN: that idea isn't new - I think lowlight already had it working, don't lnow is it's in the tracker |
14:34:08 | pixelma | *know |
14:34:14 | BigBambi | I'll party in the streets if left cancel goes |
14:34:17 | LinusN | pixelma: hmmm, i think i remember that now |
14:34:19 | BigBambi | Well, be happy anyway |
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14:37:09 | GodEater | doesn't the menu just need to move the highlight over the currently selected option when you enter the setting in order to show you which is current ? |
14:37:40 | pixelma | but one objection could be that it takes more space (maybe disturbing on the small screens) |
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14:37:57 | pondlife | Am I right in thinking that PLAY and STOP buttons are on the side of the H1x0? i.e. not near the joystick |
14:38:16 | BigBambi | pondlife: yes |
14:38:18 | LinusN | yes |
14:38:21 | pondlife | OK |
14:38:24 | pondlife | Good |
14:38:25 | BigBambi | only the joystick is on the front |
14:39:00 | BigBambi | play, stop, a/b on the right side and record on the left as you look at it |
14:39:13 | pondlife | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/KeymapIriverHSeries is a nice page |
14:39:25 | LinusN | GodEater: yes, but the revert feature is there when you forget which one was selected when you entered the setting |
14:39:25 | perldiver | got bunch of tree.c errors while building with the latest svn |
14:39:27 | pondlife | Pity there's not a page for all targets like that |
14:39:47 | LinusN | perldiver: tarball? |
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14:39:52 | GodEater | LinusN ah I see |
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14:41:50 | * | linuxstb sits in the corner still thinking select/right are actions that do something with the current item in a list, and left is an action that does nothing with the current item. |
14:41:50 | | Quit Mouser_X (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
14:42:06 | perldiver | i got album art patch applied maybe thats why |
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14:42:24 | pondlife | linuxstb: That's how I felt, but up/down already did something |
14:42:42 | pondlife | i.e. settings are "live", not confirmed |
14:42:55 | pondlife | It's not like there's an OK or Apply button. |
14:43:05 | pondlife | So the left does nothing |
14:43:09 | pondlife | Just exits |
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14:45:00 | linuxstb | pondlife: Only on a few settings. |
14:45:08 | pondlife | Oh? |
14:45:16 | pondlife | I thought they were all like that |
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14:45:23 | linuxstb | And that's a preview - moving the cursor over a file in the file browser doesn't do anything to it. |
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14:45:52 | * | pondlife is starting to be convinced back to how he felt earlier |
14:46:28 | pondlife | linuxstb: So you like the current settings menu best? |
14:46:55 | linuxstb | You mean with left as cancel and select or right as accept? |
14:46:58 | pondlife | Yes |
14:46:59 | GodEater | I tend to agree with linuxstb, but I'm prepared to admit I'm in a minority it would seem |
14:47:01 | linuxstb | Yes. |
14:47:32 | pondlife | Well I agree with you two too. |
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14:48:23 | * | webguest92 suggests to create a wiki page or forum where everyone can praise JdGordon for the root menu! |
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14:48:40 | pixelma | UK conspiration |
14:48:44 | GodEater | hit and run praise |
14:49:04 | linuxstb | pixelma: :) Maybe it's because we drive on the left... |
14:49:13 | GodEater | hehe |
14:49:26 | pondlife | ...whilst changing settings... |
14:49:34 | pixelma | that must be the reason! :) |
14:49:55 | pondlife | All those complaints about crashes... |
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14:51:39 | pondlife | Why does Mouser_X leave and join so often? |
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14:51:52 | pondlife | lol |
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14:52:20 | Shaid | I think his connection dies. |
14:52:20 | cadu | ah damn! see....it's a bad thing living in japan :(((( |
14:52:47 | | Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) |
14:52:49 | cadu | just checked the japanese 'gigabeat' website and the F and X models are DISCONTINUED here :( |
14:53:07 | pondlife | Lunchtime.... back later |
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14:54:34 | cadu | i so want a rockbox-able player :( |
14:54:49 | BigBambi | I live in the UK! |
14:55:00 | GodEater | cadu: they're discontinued everywhere - you have to get them from ebay as second hand |
14:55:10 | BigBambi | but still don't like left cancel :) |
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14:56:02 | pixelma | BigBambi: it's the exception to the rule ;) |
14:56:22 | linuxstb | BigBambi: Which target(s) do you use? |
14:56:29 | BigBambi | H140 |
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14:56:45 | ticktock | now that RTC patch has been incorporated I will do the clock mod to my H140, was waiting for that |
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14:58:36 | cadu | GodEater: sniff :( |
14:58:52 | GodEater | cadu: is using ebay a problem for you ? |
14:58:56 | cadu | no credit card. |
14:59:05 | GodEater | ah - tricky |
14:59:42 | cadu | man i was really really like jumping around in happiness like 'whoa i'll have my own rockbox!' yay :( |
15:00 |
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15:00:17 | GodEater | unfortunately I think the case is that most rockbox supported players are discontinued |
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15:00:31 | GodEater | the only exception is the iPod 5.5G 30GB |
15:00:42 | | Part ticktock |
15:01:02 | cadu | but ipods suck at battery life |
15:01:03 | GodEater | and the iPod doesn't bring the best rockbox experience with it |
15:01:11 | cadu | that's why i've been avoiding those |
15:01:35 | cadu | then...what can i buy in this world that will play more than MP3 and it's not discontinued? :( |
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15:01:56 | Shaid | or from australia. |
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15:01:59 | cadu | iaudio x5l ? (i think i CAN get a CC ....need to have one of those conversations with father :P) |
15:02:09 | Shaid | expensively, but the gigabeats aren't that hard to find here. |
15:02:36 | GodEater | can't you just get your father to get it from ebay for you and you pay him ? |
15:03:15 | cadu | will anyone send to japan ? |
15:03:30 | GodEater | how you going to pay someone in Australia ? |
15:03:37 | cadu | if i can't get these things new...i was thinking in getting a iAudio X5L ? |
15:03:56 | Shaid | haha |
15:04:05 | Shaid | paypal? /me shrugs |
15:04:17 | Shaid | eh. there was meant to be a new line between those... |
15:04:27 | cadu | life is though :( |
15:04:34 | Shaid | I sleep now |
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15:04:41 | GodEater | if he had a paypal account he could ebay |
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15:04:48 | * | cadu hides in a corner using his gp2x as music player :P |
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15:05:06 | cadu | at least someone developed an app for it that has a simple playlist and plays ogg/mp3/flac :P |
15:05:11 | cadu | at *least* :( |
15:05:27 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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15:07:28 | markun | cadu: they have been discontinued everywhere |
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15:12:41 | cadu | sad *__* |
15:13:01 | cadu | ahahah i was hoping this weekend i could rush some stores and try to find some unsold model |
15:13:08 | cadu | but in japan this is impossible |
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15:35:10 | donvito | any progress on the E2xxRs? |
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15:58:04 | Nico_P | http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000635.html apparently some people are incapable of learning to program |
15:58:28 | * | preglow raises hand |
15:58:52 | Nico_P | this reminds me of all the "i want this - then learn how to code" discussions |
15:59:04 | pondlife | lol |
15:59:13 | pondlife | "I can't" |
15:59:16 | Nico_P | exactly |
15:59:28 | Nico_P | well maybe they were actually telling the truth :) |
15:59:50 | pondlife | Exactly |
16:00 |
16:01:09 | pondlife | I like "8% of students didn't give a damn and left the answers blank" |
16:01:34 | lostlogic | I just grinned at that myself. |
16:03:42 | Nico_P | there's another article on that blog that's frightening about how most programmers are incapable of writing even basic code |
16:03:55 | * | pondlife raises both hands |
16:04:07 | Nico_P | http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000781.html |
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16:07:16 | XavierGr | heh I read both articles yesterday |
16:07:28 | XavierGr | pretty funny and sad at the same time |
16:08:05 | lostlogic | hard to believe that people can pass one of these so-called computer science courses and be unable to write the example program in the latter article |
16:08:19 | webguest52 | GodEater: isn't it a major problem of RockBox? (That it supports only discontinued players?) RB will then die eventually |
16:08:48 | webguest52 | We need fresh blood |
16:08:49 | Febs | Perhaps you haven't noticed our port to the ipod? |
16:08:51 | lostlogic | webguest52: who says what about the players we support? |
16:09:27 | webguest52 | lostlogic: yes, the current list is very impressive. But it's not alive |
16:09:48 | preglow | haha |
16:10:11 | preglow | given the current market, it's hard to even finish a port before it's off the market again |
16:10:21 | webguest52 | preglow: but true |
16:10:39 | pondlife | Rockbox will probably always be about 1 year behind "current". That works out pretty well. |
16:10:47 | preglow | indeed |
16:10:49 | webguest52 | preglow: RB is hunting a very quickly moving target |
16:10:57 | pondlife | Saves us porting to dead-end hardware |
16:10:58 | preglow | we haven't had any problem attracting developers thus far |
16:11:17 | preglow | so i don't think this is a problem in any way |
16:11:23 | pondlife | And we can reuse lots of our existing code (most times) |
16:13:00 | preglow | rockbox could go on for years even with not supporting any newer players than we do now |
16:13:06 | webguest52 | pondlife: yes, but it becomes increasingly hard. It's hard to get all the specs etc. |
16:13:10 | preglow | we even develop for archos stuff, ffs |
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16:13:50 | webguest52 | In a few years, it will be like developing software for MS DOS |
16:14:19 | preglow | eh? |
16:14:22 | preglow | how come? |
16:14:52 | preglow | what do you envision to come in newer players that would make that comparison fair? |
16:15:14 | amiconn | Well, if all future hardware will be locked down like the nano g2 it will indeed be hard if not impossible |
16:15:32 | pondlife | There might end up being a Rockbox port to WinCE or something I suppose. |
16:15:37 | webguest52 | The now discontinued players will die somewhen. And the new models are brought to the market at such a high speed that RB can't be well ported to them (to compete with the OF) |
16:16:05 | markun | webguest52: if someone ports rockbox to any of the TMS320 targets we might get support for a lot more players |
16:16:06 | pondlife | webguest52: Are you on the Zune Linux team? |
16:16:14 | pondlife | ;) |
16:16:40 | | Quit tri170391 (Remote closed the connection) |
16:17:06 | preglow | webguest52: we don't need to compete with the of |
16:17:17 | markun | webguest52: I think your reasoning was lot more true before the iriver h1xx port than it is now |
16:17:57 | pondlife | C programmers who had not heard of strcpy here - http://davidavraamides.net/blog/2005/05/07/strcpy/ |
16:18:23 | lostlogic | and the H1x0 port proved that rockbox can go from one "old" generation of players to the next pretty readily and I'm sure that will continue to be the case. |
16:18:37 | lostlogic | besides, we have most of a port to the ipod 5.5G which is the _current_ generation. |
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16:20:08 | webguest52 | I don't want that it comes to be as I described. I only wanted to express my concern. I like RB and use it. |
16:20:31 | markun | webguest52: do you also have a solution? |
16:21:43 | webguest52 | No. If I had many daps and wouldn't fear to brick one, I'd probably try to port RB to a new platform. But I only own one (H120) and don't dare to do something with it. Even the RTC mod is not for me. |
16:23:00 | barrywardell_ | Domonoky: hi, back now. I couldn't get it working on linux, so I tried on Windows instead, using the version in the wiki |
16:23:25 | barrywardell_ | instlling rockbox SVN build worked fine, as did Fonts install |
16:23:43 | barrywardell_ | bootloader install brought up an error though |
16:24:59 | webguest52 | markun: rg. Font install: have you had a chance to look a nimbus patches? It was discussed here recently. I also use them. |
16:25:39 | markun | no, still didn't look into it |
16:25:44 | markun | but it's on my todo |
16:25:54 | markun | but so are other interesting things :) |
16:26:05 | webguest52 | Where? At the top? ;-) |
16:26:39 | markun | webguest52: actually, it is the first item yes :) |
16:26:57 | barrywardell_ | Domonoky: here's the error log from the bootloader install: http://pastebin.ca/377185 |
16:27:05 | pondlife | What's the WPS key combo to skip to next directory? Something like short right, long right..? |
16:27:11 | pondlife | H300 btw |
16:27:40 | webguest52 | markun: Ok. Have a nice day. |
16:27:45 | | Part webguest52 ("gtg") |
16:28:09 | markun | just when you are writing someone a PM.. |
16:29:45 | Domonoky | barrywardell_: thanks for the test, i will have a look at the problems.. |
16:29:50 | pondlife | Noone know...? |
16:30:08 | barrywardell_ | Domonoky: here's the error I got in Linux too if it's any use: http://pastebin.ca/377189 |
16:30:44 | markun | pondlife: I don't know, check the source code :) |
16:31:12 | pondlife | I have, it's not obvious |
16:31:18 | * | pondlife looks properly |
16:31:24 | Domonoky | barrywardell_: in Linux, was this the binary from the wiki, or self built ? |
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16:32:25 | perl|work | oh i think i know why i couldnt compile with the latest svn. left-to-wps patch... |
16:32:27 | barrywardell_ | self built |
16:32:40 | barrywardell_ | and self-build wxgtk 2.8 too |
16:32:54 | Domonoky | strange.. |
16:33:28 | barrywardell_ | I just did ./configure, then make, then make install for wxwidgets. Is that right? |
16:33:44 | barrywardell_ | or do I need to tell configure to do anything special? |
16:34:11 | Domonoky | i think so, i used ./configure −−disable-shared |
16:34:23 | Domonoky | but i dont kown if this matters |
16:34:28 | perl|work | http://geektechnique.org/projectlab/753/how-to-turn-your-ipod-mini-into-a-flash-based-ipod |
16:34:50 | barrywardell_ | i'll try that |
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16:35:21 | pondlife | It is short right then long right, but I can't see it in the keymaps anywhere. It wasn't working earlier either, but stopping and restarting playback fixed. |
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16:49:44 | Domonoky | barrywardell_: can you try this windows binary: http://b23.org/~domonoky/rbutil-fixH10.zip ? |
16:50:10 | barrywardell_ | yeah, ok |
16:50:14 | Domonoky | :-) |
16:50:34 | Domonoky | now downloading should work, but there could be more bugs :-) |
16:51:17 | * | n1s should test rbutil sometime, if it works well it will get rid of half of our support questions :-) |
16:51:23 | pondlife | Hmm, is database browsing a bit borked in SVN, or is it just me? On the sim this is... |
16:52:33 | pondlife | And Debug Menu has vanished from the sim too. |
17:00 |
17:01:22 | linuxstb__ | Domonoky: I haven't updated recently, but does rbutil now refer to "releases", "archived daily builds" and "current builds" ? |
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17:03:29 | Domonoky | no, i doesnt, i should change it :-) |
17:03:58 | linuxstb | I was thinking a drop-down list of dates for the available "Archived daily builds" would be nice... |
17:04:20 | Nico_P | are build servers all dedicated machines or do some of the owners share their work machine ? |
17:04:34 | barrywardell_ | Domonoky: Bootloader add: [ERR] File E:\\System\H10_20GC.mi4 does not exist |
17:05:04 | Domonoky | drop down list would be nice.. |
17:05:28 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
17:06:39 | Domonoky | but the file is there ? probably the problem is only the double slash |
17:07:55 | barrywardell_ | yes, the file is there |
17:08:50 | Nico_P | Domonoky: i'd like to test rbutil on linux and i just downloaded the wxWidgets 2.8.0 source package |
17:09:08 | Nico_P | can i use it to compile rbutil without affecting my whole system ? |
17:09:36 | Domonoky | hm.. dont know to much about wxWidgets on linux |
17:11:26 | Domonoky | but it should be possible |
17:13:11 | Domonoky | if you configure with −−disable-shared |
17:13:24 | Domonoky | and do not "make install" |
17:13:43 | Nico_P | i'll try that |
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17:14:24 | Domonoky | there is a install.txt in wxwidget2.8/docs/msw/install.txt |
17:14:52 | Domonoky | it also describes install for cygwin, which should be applicable also for linux |
17:15:10 | | Quit ender1 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
17:15:25 | Nico_P | i just tried the bins you put on the wiki... the static one segfaults and the other linux one gives a horrible backtrace |
17:15:29 | B-Ranger | Hy |
17:15:32 | Nico_P | i'll try to compile |
17:16:05 | Domonoky | jeah binarys for linux are difficult to make (so they work everywhere) and i dont know how.. :-) |
17:16:33 | B-Ranger | I'm currently trying to start the Rockbox4ZVM-Project and wold therefore set up a Wikipage at Rockbox |
17:16:38 | | Join desowin [0] (n=desowin@avc146.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
17:17:46 | markun | B-Ranger: are you the guy who asked for wiki rights but didn't get them? |
17:18:06 | markun | (from the ZVM forum thread) |
17:18:30 | B-Ranger | markun: I haven't officialy asked for them, but yes, I'm Hoffmann in that forum |
17:18:50 | B-Ranger | *think* Would be less confusing if i would keep one Username |
17:18:55 | | Nick B-Ranger is now known as Hoffmann (n=chatzill@static-67-62-231-178.t1.cavtel.net) |
17:19:05 | | Nick Hoffmann is now known as HoffmannP (n=chatzill@static-67-62-231-178.t1.cavtel.net) |
17:19:26 | markun | you can use whichever nick you want, don't worry :) |
17:19:36 | Llorean | As a note, the page should probably be named CreativeZVMPort rather than Rockbox4ZVM-Project or anything like that. |
17:19:51 | | Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara") |
17:19:55 | Llorean | Most ports have a page that looks something like this as a starting point: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IriverPort |
17:20:38 | markun | HoffmannP: what's your wiki name? |
17:22:15 | toffe | Hello |
17:22:43 | markun | hi toffe |
17:22:52 | markun | any news from your jtag adventure? |
17:23:02 | toffe | not yet |
17:23:39 | HoffmannP | Ahm is that the same as in the forum? |
17:24:02 | HoffmannP | I will use your name proposal |
17:24:13 | markun | HoffmannP: no, if you don't have a wiki account you need to make one (with your real name btw) |
17:24:20 | HoffmannP | ok |
17:24:36 | toffe | for everybody : I am going to buy a Hot air rework station (used to replace complex chip on a board), so if you need to take off some component of a board, you can send it to me and I will do the job, |
17:25:27 | toffe | I found one not so expensive and I going to use it for the gigabeat S |
17:26:05 | toffe | If you need to trace some signal on any board and need to take off some compnonents (memory, cpu) I will do it ;) |
17:26:56 | toffe | Don't use your oven anymore :) |
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17:29:48 | markun | toffe: maybe this is something for you? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=3320.msg70026#msg70026 |
17:30:14 | Nico_P | Domonoky: |
17:30:21 | Nico_P | Domonoky: it compiles but crashes |
17:30:33 | Domonoky | barrywardell_: can you try again please ? http://b23.org/~domonoky/rbutil-fixH10-2.zip |
17:31:24 | Domonoky | Nico_P: how does it crash ? |
17:31:41 | Nico_P | Domonoky: *** glibc detected *** ./rbutil: munmap_chunk(): invalid pointer: 0x08761adc *** |
17:31:55 | Nico_P | followed by the backtrace and memory map |
17:31:57 | Domonoky | same as barrywardell |
17:32:02 | Domonoky | strange... |
17:32:22 | Nico_P | i get a few warnings when i compile |
17:32:30 | * | Domonoky starts colinux |
17:32:48 | Nico_P | it looks like the same thing as when i tried the prebuilt bins |
17:32:54 | Nico_P | although i'm not sure |
17:33:54 | * | Domonoky dont kown whats wrong.. :-/ |
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17:34:06 | | Join tipi^ [0] (i=pihlstro@lehtori.cc.tut.fi) |
17:34:24 | Nico_P | exactly what i did was build wxWidgets 2.8.0 (which required me to install GTK 2.0 dev files) after configuring with −−disable-shared, added the build dir to my PATH and did make in the rbutil dir |
17:35:19 | perl|work | Nico_P i couldnt compile today either |
17:35:34 | perl|work | i had letf-to-wps and AA patches applied though |
17:35:36 | Domonoky | in my colinux (debian) rbutil works, but i cant remember how i configured wxWidgets |
17:35:36 | Nico_P | perl|work: i managed to compile it but it crashed when i ran it |
17:35:40 | perl|work | which i forgot about them |
17:36:01 | Nico_P | perl|work: rockbox patches won't change anything to rbutil |
17:36:12 | Domonoky | rbutil is seperate |
17:36:39 | perl|work | ah you're talking rbutil, nevermind then |
17:38:53 | Domonoky | this bug witch rbutil in Linux is very strange.. it think linuxstb had more success with rbutil under linux.. |
17:39:24 | linuxstb | It works fine for me... |
17:40:25 | Domonoky | google knows this errors, something with glibc ? |
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17:41:25 | pondlife | Oops, yellow |
17:41:36 | linuxstb | Is there a demand for a Linux version of rbutil anyway? |
17:42:23 | Domonoky | not really, i think the "problematic users" are windows and Mac :-) |
17:42:37 | Domonoky | but a working linux version would be nice.. |
17:42:50 | | Quit Criamos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
17:43:00 | inteliwasp | i hate finding bad charging cables the hard way... |
17:43:28 | linuxstb | pondlife: Why should the browser headings depend on the icon settings? Isn't the icon setting for icons? |
17:43:36 | Nico_P | linuxstb: what linux are you using and what did you do to get rbutil running ? |
17:44:07 | linuxstb | I'm using Debian (x86). I did a full install (i.e. configure; make ; make install) of wxGTK-2.8.0. |
17:44:24 | linuxstb | I'm pretty sure I passed "−−disable-shared" to configure. |
17:44:32 | linuxstb | And then just "make" in the rbutil directory. |
17:45:18 | pondlife | Nope, the problem is that the headings display icons |
17:45:25 | pondlife | Even when you don't want to. |
17:45:44 | Nico_P | linuxstb: basically i'm doing the same thing, just without the make install part |
17:45:46 | pondlife | i.e. Headings + no icons results in headings with icons |
17:46:08 | Nico_P | linuxstb: did the prebuilt bin work for you ? |
17:46:15 | inteliwasp | has anyone submitted a feature request on a recharging mode in rockbox? |
17:46:35 | linuxstb | Ah, the commit message made me think you were only showing headings when icons were shown... |
17:47:07 | pondlife | Nope. Just clearing up some UI inconsistency |
17:47:09 | linuxstb | Nico_P: I'll try it. |
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17:48:57 | barrywardell_ | Domonoky: still no luck. Similar error: Bootloader add: [ERR] File E:\\System\H10_20GC.mi4 does not exist |
17:49:32 | Domonoky | bad, hm.. will have to investigate more |
17:49:41 | amiconn | Doble backslash? |
17:49:45 | amiconn | *Double |
17:50:13 | linuxstb | Domonoky: I think the rbutil binary for Linux you uploaded is 100% static - i.e. no shared libraries at all. |
17:50:38 | linuxstb | Running it, I just get "Killed" appear onscreen immediately, and "ldd rbutil" says "not a dynamic executable" |
17:51:44 | Domonoky | jeah one of the linux binarys i tried to statify ( a tool to include all dynamic libs into the binary) |
17:51:53 | linuxstb | I've uploaded my own build here - http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/rbutil-linux.zip |
17:52:12 | Domonoky | there are 2 linux binarys on the wiki |
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17:52:14 | linuxstb | It does have a long list of dependencies though... |
17:52:34 | linuxstb | Domonoky: I just tried the one dated 22 Feb. |
17:52:45 | Nico_P | linuxstb: i'll try your build |
17:53:12 | | Part CPUFreak91 |
17:53:15 | Nico_P | *** glibc detected *** ./rbutil: munmap_chunk(): invalid pointer: 0x0876d67c *** |
17:53:31 | griphiam | Quick question about the state of AAC... the note in the readme says that future versions of teh FAAD2 codec can't be used... |
17:53:49 | linuxstb | Domonoky: Yes, your first linux binary works fine for me... |
17:53:55 | griphiam | (due to attribution issue in the license) |
17:54:18 | griphiam | Does this mean optimization plans are on hold at the moment? |
17:54:43 | linuxstb | griphiam: It just means we have forked faad2 from the official code. |
17:54:56 | linuxstb | (from the version just before their license change) |
17:55:07 | barrywardell_ | Domonoky: sorry, wrong error message. No double backslash this time |
17:55:11 | griphiam | Ahh. |
17:55:33 | linuxstb | Some work has been done on it, but the ffmpeg project are working on a new AAC decoder, and the hope is that we can switch to using that at some point. |
17:55:53 | Nico_P | linuxstb: what's your glibc version ? |
17:56:01 | griphiam | I'm just weighing if I should recreate my files with ogg or mp3 or wait |
17:56:16 | griphiam | Cool! I'll check that out |
17:56:56 | griphiam | Thanks! |
17:57:04 | linuxstb | griphiam: ogg and mp3 are far more popular amongst Rockbox developers - none of us use AAC as their main format... |
17:57:39 | griphiam | I realize that... I just had most of my CD ripped in AAC before I switched over |
17:58:54 | linuxstb | Nico_P: How can I check? |
17:59:01 | markun | griphiam: maybe having all your files in AAC is a good reason to work on the codec? |
17:59:24 | | Quit BigBambi ("Leaving") |
17:59:27 | Llorean | griphiam: Well MP3 is more globally compatible, but Ogg/Vorbis doesn't have the same patent guillotine hanging over its head. |
17:59:30 | Nico_P | linuxstb: actually i don't know :p i thought it was as simple as glibc −−version but i's not |
17:59:31 | griphiam | That's why I was inquiring... I wanted to know what the plan was for the codec.. |
17:59:59 | linuxstb | Nico_P: I have /lib/libc-2.3.6.so if that's the same thing... |
18:00 |
18:00:10 | linuxstb | And /lib/libc.so.6 |
18:00:47 | Nico_P | i don't have one with a version number |
18:00:50 | griphiam | Ogg is what I was tending towards, but I wanted to keep backwards compatible with the original ipod firmware when I need the full battery life |
18:01:21 | linuxstb | Nico_P: If you type "ldd rbutil | grep libc", what is displayed? |
18:02:06 | griphiam | If the ffmpeg codec where the project is ultimately headed... I'll take a peek over there to see if there is anything I can do to help |
18:02:12 | Nico_P | linuxstb: libc.so.6 => /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6 (0xb76ac000) |
18:02:15 | griphiam | (for AAC at least) |
18:02:32 | | Join rotator [0] (n=e@rockbox/developer/rotator) |
18:02:37 | linuxstb | Nico_P: I get libc.so.6 => /lib/tls/libc.so.6 (0xa7624000) |
18:03:28 | Nico_P | i also have /lib/libc.so.6 on my system... can i make rbutil link to that one ? |
18:03:48 | linuxstb | griphiam: The main issue is that the ffmpeg AAC codec is using floating point. We need a fixed-point version for Rockbox. I don't think it's part of the mainline SVN yet either. |
18:03:56 | griphiam | hmmm |
18:04:09 | griphiam | How optimized is the fixed point Ogg codec at this point? |
18:04:14 | linuxstb | It was written by a student as part of the Google Summer Of Code last summer. |
18:04:29 | preglow | griphiam: it's fairly well optimised |
18:04:31 | preglow | but more can be done |
18:04:36 | linuxstb | On the ipod, vorbis and mp3 are about the same I think. |
18:05:27 | Domonoky | barrywardell_: now hopefully fixed: http://b23.org/~domonoky/rbutil-fixH10-3.zip |
18:05:40 | barrywardell_ | k. i'll test now |
18:05:41 | Nico_P | linuxstb: seriously ? he wrote the whole decoder from scratch ? |
18:06:11 | | Quit inteliwasp ("Leaving") |
18:06:16 | linuxstb | I'm not sure - I have a feeling there was already something started, which he just continued. |
18:06:40 | griphiam | Tremor is the fixed point vorbis decoder? |
18:06:46 | linuxstb | Yes. |
18:06:52 | Nico_P | i didn't even know rockbox mentored a student for SoC... i thought this year was going to be a first |
18:07:07 | linuxstb | Nico_P: It was an ffmpeg student. |
18:07:14 | Nico_P | ah ok |
18:07:43 | linuxstb | Yes - this will be the first year for Rockbox if we get it together. |
18:08:08 | Nico_P | linuxstb: how high is the acceptance level for students ? |
18:08:20 | linuxstb | I've no idea. |
18:08:21 | Nico_P | (i'm a student) |
18:08:28 | hcs | hmm, wonder if I could get in on this |
18:09:14 | | Part Llorean |
18:09:16 | Nico_P | i was wondering too |
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18:09:49 | Nico_P | but if i have to be capable of writing a vorbis decoder, i'm not sure i have the level :p |
18:10:02 | barrywardell_ | Domonoky: works great now :) |
18:10:03 | hcs | to obtain such a level... |
18:10:19 | linuxstb | It's OK, we have a vorbis decoder - a WMA decoder will be enough. |
18:10:38 | markun | griphiam: http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/soc2006/ |
18:10:48 | barrywardell_ | Domonoky: one suggestion is that the H10 only appears as a drive if you put it into UMS mode. Maybe adding instructions to do that would be helpful |
18:11:32 | webguest90 | could rockbox be changed so that the hold switch would turn off an ipod? |
18:11:44 | hcs | sure |
18:11:45 | Domonoky | jeah, i plan on adding more instruction for the installing.. |
18:11:45 | markun | griphiam: http://svn.mplayerhq.hu/aac/ |
18:11:56 | webguest90 | is there a dev kit for windows around |
18:12:40 | linuxstb | webguest90: Firstly you nead a Unix-like environment - either Cygwin or a virtual machine running Linux. There are lots of instructions on the website. |
18:12:44 | Nico_P | markun: how well does it work ? |
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18:13:16 | preglow | linuxstb: looks like he's back working on it |
18:13:16 | markun | Nico_P: I have no idea |
18:13:30 | griphiam | =) I always find it interesting how little comments there are |
18:13:49 | griphiam | Unfortunately Rockbox suffers from that a little too =) |
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18:14:00 | preglow | "a little?" heh |
18:14:15 | griphiam | ;) Just a little |
18:14:18 | linuxstb | preglow: It does indeed, now lets send him a Rockbox target... |
18:14:36 | markun | we can let a student add comments all summer ;) |
18:14:38 | preglow | i'd be willing to have a look at porting it to fixed point |
18:14:46 | preglow | but i don't wanna start until it's working well |
18:15:17 | Nico_P | linuxstb: any idea how i can use /lib/libc.so.6 instead of /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6 to compile rbutil ? |
18:15:30 | webguest90 | where can you download the latest source ? without using SVN |
18:16:17 | griphiam | gotta run... bbiab |
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18:17:11 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Sorry, no. |
18:17:26 | linuxstb | webguest90: On the same pages you can download the binary builds. |
18:17:43 | webguest90 | oh the big rockbox logo :) |
18:17:46 | webguest90 | didnt see that |
18:18:02 | webguest90 | ok thanks |
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18:18:57 | pondlife | Anyone object to the File Browser having a heading of "Files" in the root directory rather than nothing? |
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18:19:10 | bluebrother | hmm. Shouldn't the database settings be in General Settings rather than below the File View in that? Sounds more logical to me ... |
18:19:35 | markun | bluebrother: after today I would say yes |
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18:20:51 | bluebrother | hmm. Do I need to reinitialize the Database? Update doesn't seem to work, and I guess my database is from before the latest changes to the db format |
18:21:03 | pixelma | pondlife: what would it look like when someone has a subfolder called "Files" (?) |
18:21:37 | pondlife | Same as it would if they had a sub-subfolder called "Files" |
18:21:51 | pondlife | Hard to draw on IRC, but perfectly sensible |
18:22:03 | bluebrother | why not call the root folder "Root Folder" in the title? Should also clarify all these "what is the root folder" questions (at least a bit ;-) |
18:22:22 | pondlife | I'm taking the LANG string from the one used in the main menu |
18:22:31 | markun | bluebrother: sounds like a good plan to me :) |
18:22:34 | pondlife | i.e. I select Files and the next screen is headed Files |
18:22:46 | pondlife | If you have path displayed it'll be / |
18:22:53 | bluebrother | not showing a title for / is quite inconsistent |
18:22:59 | pondlife | It annoys me |
18:23:10 | bluebrother | you have a path shown? |
18:23:12 | markun | pondlife: so it would use the name from the language file, right? |
18:23:24 | pondlife | No just current |
18:23:24 | pondlife | Yes |
18:23:29 | pondlife | So you could change that to Root Folder if you wanted |
18:23:30 | Domonoky | H10 bootloader install fix for rbutil is now in SVN .. |
18:23:40 | bluebrother | I have nothing (but I display the current dir only, not the complete path) |
18:23:52 | pondlife | bluebrother: That's what I find annoying |
18:24:04 | pondlife | Going up and down it appears and disappears |
18:24:41 | bluebrother | hmm. And left from the file tree doesn't go back to the RB menu anymore (with file tree set as startup screen) −− I thought it would go back in all cases? |
18:25:09 | pondlife | No, that was decided yesterday (although I'd prefer left -> main menu personally) |
18:25:34 | * | pondlife is not restarting any more old UI arguments |
18:25:40 | bluebrother | ah. For all views or only if the tree is set as startup screen? |
18:25:41 | pondlife | ...just new ones ;) |
18:25:51 | pondlife | No idea. |
18:26:11 | bluebrother | I like it that way it currently is, but I thought the decision was different. |
18:26:16 | pondlife | Is there a startup screen setting yet? |
18:26:26 | bluebrother | yes, it's hidden in the System settings |
18:26:53 | pondlife | Wow, that is well hidden |
18:27:25 | bluebrother | I commented on the FS task once or twice that I don't think this is a good position. Seems nobody cared. |
18:27:49 | bluebrother | (I initially only found it by looking at the sources :o ) |
18:28:11 | pondlife | The UI settings need putting together. File View/Display/System.... |
18:28:19 | bluebrother | would make more sense in the Display or General Settings IMO |
18:28:33 | pondlife | Display |
18:28:57 | bluebrother | I think the File View entry is ok, just put the Database right below it |
18:29:00 | pondlife | General Settings should probably be moved up a level too (i.e. removed) |
18:29:11 | pondlife | So you can go Settings -> Display |
18:29:18 | pixelma | bluebrother: about left-to-root... the idea was that only the button that calls the menu will lead you to the root menu - from everywhere - so that you don't get the impression of an hierarchy which isn't there so easily |
18:29:20 | bluebrother | good point |
18:29:57 | pondlife | So nobody objects to me committing this little heading consistency fix? |
18:29:59 | bluebrother | pixelma: I absolutely agree about the "root" (it's not root, it's Rockbox ;-) menu not to imply a hierarchy that's not intended |
18:30:14 | markun | pondlife: go ahead |
18:30:17 | pondlife | Yep, that was what confused me |
18:30:22 | bluebrother | which is also why I dislike the mentioning of that menu as "root menu". Like in the commit message :( |
18:30:44 | pondlife | I'm careful to call it main menu now |
18:30:45 | markun | pondlife: wait, what are you going to commit? |
18:31:06 | bluebrother | just call it "Rockbox Menu" :) |
18:31:38 | pondlife | If the file browser heading is set to current level only, display "Files" for the root folder. (And yes, I mean root!) |
18:31:47 | GodEater | have I read somewhere on the wiki that our docs are supposed to be in British English ? |
18:31:55 | bluebrother | GodEater: yes. |
18:32:01 | pondlife | markun: OK? |
18:32:04 | pixelma | true... "root menu" can be misleading und easily mistaken for "root directory" |
18:32:08 | pondlife | Yep |
18:32:18 | GodEater | then when do we supply builds for a "grayscale" target (4th gen ipod) rather than a "greyscale" one ? |
18:32:23 | markun | pondlife: files, or the entry from the language file? |
18:32:24 | pondlife | And it's not already in the lang/voice files |
18:32:31 | pondlife | Yes, from the lang |
18:32:37 | markun | yes, sure |
18:32:52 | bluebrother | we have a "grayscale" target? |
18:32:58 | GodEater | look at the builds page |
18:33:18 | | Nick HoffmannP is now known as HoffmannP|afk (n=chatzill@static-67-62-231-178.t1.cavtel.net) |
18:33:34 | bluebrother | ah. I guess that doesn't apply to the website ;-) |
18:33:48 | GodEater | that's nice and consistent ;) |
18:34:08 | bluebrother | the reason for british english is quite simple: Cassandra wrote the initial manual, and she used british. So we stuck to BE. |
18:34:16 | GodEater | that makes perfect sense |
18:34:25 | bluebrother | but that unsurprisingly doesn't imply the website |
18:34:37 | pixelma | and not to the UI it seems, for example "initialize now" |
18:35:04 | bluebrother | maybe we should have english-uk and english-us lang files ;-) |
18:35:26 | pondlife | "Background Colour" is in there! |
18:35:50 | GodEater | and apparently we don't mention "grayscale" in the manual |
18:36:00 | bluebrother | but it's correct, the lang file should get adjusted to use at least one spelling consistently. |
18:36:00 | Domonoky | markun: do you have windows ? can you try rbutil on gigabeat ? :-) |
18:36:57 | markun | Domonoky: no, don't have windows |
18:37:30 | bluebrother | the download for the greyscale 4G is even called gray :o |
18:37:32 | GodEater | I have windows and a gigabeat - is there a prebuilt binary for rbutil I can try for you ? |
18:37:57 | * | Domonoky needs testers for rbutil with gigabeat and with iaudio |
18:37:59 | pondlife | OK, one more. Anyone think that the Database first level heading should read "Database" instead of "Browse By..." |
18:38:11 | pondlife | This is a tagnavi.config thing |
18:38:55 | Nico_P | Domonoky: i'd be happy to test on gigabeat if i managed to compile :) |
18:39:07 | Domonoky | hehe, bad linux :-) |
18:39:23 | GodEater | Domonoky: is there somewhere to get the windows binary from ? |
18:39:26 | Nico_P | maybe i'll boot windows to try |
18:40:54 | bluebrother | pondlife: not sure ... at least it shows a heading |
18:40:54 | Domonoky | the wiki.. ( i am just uploading the fixed versio) |
18:41:15 | pondlife | Yep, I'll leave it. |
18:41:18 | bluebrother | maybe "Database Browser"? |
18:41:29 | bluebrother | but I think the current title is ok. |
18:41:34 | pondlife | I was thinking Database, just like in the main menu |
18:41:40 | Nico_P | Domonoky: is munmap_chunk() an rbutil function ? if so, where is it ? |
18:42:33 | Domonoky | its not an rbutil function, probably in wxWidgets |
18:42:38 | pondlife | Everywhere else the heading displays the option you just selected. |
18:42:48 | pondlife | Which is nice. |
18:45:59 | amiconn | Hmm, is there a description how to open a H1x0 somewhere? |
18:46:13 | amiconn | I know that for H300 there is |
18:46:40 | bluebrother | pondlife: I like the new heading for the file view ... but wouldn't it be better to use something that makes it clear it's not a folder? Like "<Files>"? |
18:46:56 | bluebrother | amiconn: rockbox-lounge.com had such a guide once. |
18:47:54 | bluebrother | http://www.rockbox-lounge.com/downloads.php?view=detail&id=13 |
18:47:54 | pondlife | bluebrother: But surely it's the same as if you're in a subdir. The heading is offset so it can't be a folder. |
18:48:15 | pondlife | I thought the name of the thing you just went into was a good bet |
18:48:38 | pondlife | Maybe the LANG file should say "File Browser" not "Files"? |
18:48:39 | bluebrother | how about using the name of the disk volume for display? |
18:48:46 | bluebrother | ok, maybe that's a bit too much ;-) |
18:48:47 | Domonoky | GodEater: the new Version of rbutil is now in the wiki |
18:48:47 | pondlife | bluebrother: I like that idea |
18:48:49 | pondlife | :) |
18:48:59 | GodEater | 12537.zip ? |
18:48:59 | amiconn | bluebrother: Thatks, that was quick :) |
18:49:44 | bluebrother | you're welcome |
18:49:53 | Domonoky | yes, rbutil-win32-r12537.zip |
18:50:13 | GodEater | ok got it |
18:50:35 | Nico_P | amiconn: maybe you can help me... how can i compile using /lib/libc.so.6 rather than /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6 (it's in rbutil) ? |
18:50:51 | bluebrother | hmm, thinking about it: using the volume name might be indeed good −− afaik windows displays only that name |
18:50:54 | * | pixelma often has a "<MMC1>" folder at the top of the root directory... |
18:50:59 | bluebrother | at least the newer versions of windows |
18:51:08 | | Join lowlight [0] (i=c730180b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-79af52a7b3c3c045) |
18:51:10 | GodEater | Domonoky: which feature do you want me to test ? |
18:51:25 | bluebrother | pixelma: doesn't the ondio use the volume name for that folder too? |
18:51:27 | Domonoky | bootloader installation |
18:51:38 | pondlife | pixelma: Does the current SVN look ok to you? |
18:51:44 | amiconn | bluebrother: A volume name isn't mandatory on (v)fat(32) |
18:51:57 | Domonoky | the rest should work on every platform |
18:52:01 | GodEater | Domonoky: it failed |
18:52:06 | pixelma | bluebrother: nope, not yet. [IDC]Dragon has plans to implement that |
18:52:11 | GodEater | I'm *guessing* because I'm behind a proxy server |
18:52:12 | pixelma | *had |
18:52:22 | GodEater | it couldn't download the right files from the rockbox web site |
18:52:27 | amiconn | Hrrm, no torx T5... :( |
18:52:27 | bluebrother | amiconn: I know, but if there is one present we could use it. I assume most drives have one set |
18:52:38 | Domonoky | GodEater: can you give me the exact error message ? |
18:52:48 | Domonoky | and which target ? |
18:53:07 | pixelma | pondlife: haven't updated to the newset yet |
18:53:10 | pondlife | OK |
18:53:17 | pondlife | Just wondered |
18:53:19 | GodEater | Domonoky: gigabeat F |
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18:53:35 | GodEater | I didn't save the error sorry - I'll go do it again and write it down this time ;) |
18:53:44 | Domonoky | :-) |
18:54:59 | Nico_P | amiconn: any ideas about my earlier question ? |
18:55:09 | lowlight | pondlife: your fix for heading/title icons should go in apps/gui/list.c |
18:55:22 | GodEater | Download URL: Can't get input stream (3) reading http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/gigabeat/FWIMG01.DAT |
18:55:27 | amiconn | Nico_P: Umm, no, sorry |
18:55:41 | GodEater | that enough - or do you want the other two lines ? |
18:55:46 | pondlife | lowlight: I'll look |
18:55:46 | Nico_P | :( |
18:55:50 | lowlight | pondlife: line 241 should check for "draw_icons" |
18:56:05 | pondlife | Cool, we can then remove all the other tests, right? |
18:56:17 | Domonoky | hm.. strange it cant download ? |
18:56:21 | Nico_P | LinusN: maybe you know... how can i compile rbutil using /lib/libc.so.6 rather than /lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6 ? |
18:56:37 | GodEater | Domonoky: as I say - I'm behind a firewall - so I have to go via a proxy server |
18:56:40 | lowlight | pondlife: yes |
18:56:49 | Domonoky | ah, that could be it.. |
18:56:49 | GodEater | I'm guessing rbutil assumes a direct internet connection |
18:57:09 | pixelma | pondlife: could it be that showing the folder name as heading can be switched off - if so I didn't use it anyways... |
18:57:24 | pondlife | pixelma: Yes, that's the default |
18:57:26 | Domonoky | could be, it just uses download functions from wxWidgets .. i will checl |
18:57:47 | bluebrother | maybe that should default to on (for the fancy gui users)? |
18:58:00 | preglow | jhMikeS: i'm bloody convinced i get wraparound noise when doing very high gains with the eq |
18:58:04 | pixelma | noo, takes precious screen space |
18:58:06 | preglow | jhMikeS: i'll have to dump the audio to a file one day |
18:58:34 | bluebrother | sure, but you can change that easily −− and most of the users have too much screen space :o |
18:59:01 | bluebrother | and it's not an issue for blind people |
18:59:45 | bluebrother | I need to change the startup screen to get the old feeling too ... |
18:59:53 | LinusN | Nico_P: perhaps use LD_LIBRARY_PATH? |
19:00 |
19:00:10 | Nico_P | LinusN: that's an environment variable ? |
19:00:16 | LinusN | yes |
19:00:27 | pixelma | well... I don't care so much because there are a few other default settings I always change (i.e. have in a .cfg file) |
19:00:49 | bluebrother | same for me ... |
19:01:14 | Nico_P | trying... |
19:01:23 | GodEater | Nico_P: also you could try removing /lib/tls/i686/cmov from ld.so.conf and then re-run ldconfig |
19:01:43 | GodEater | ld.so.conf lives in /etc |
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19:02:04 | | Nick Everybody|away is now known as Everybody (n=everybod@harpo.demon.co.uk) |
19:02:23 | Nico_P | GodEater: i didn't even run ldconfig after making wxwidgets... what does it do ? |
19:02:38 | GodEater | configures the search path for ld (the linker) |
19:02:51 | GodEater | so it knows where to find shared object files |
19:03:25 | GodEater | *some* distros don't have ld.so.conf (Ubuntu for example) by default, but WILL honor it if you create it |
19:03:41 | GodEater | all it contains is a list of directories with .so files in, one per line |
19:03:48 | Nico_P | i do have one (i had it befor running ldconfig) |
19:04:17 | amiconn | Hmm, H1x0 rockbox bootloader hangs when there is no partition on the drive. Not good. :/ |
19:04:31 | * | GodEater knows his ldconfig-fu from fighting with a variety of packages that wouldn't play nice once upon a time |
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19:05:31 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
19:05:32 | toffe | just test rbutils, no error, it is working fine |
19:05:41 | Nico_P | GodEater: /lib/tls/i686/cmov doesn't seem to be in ld.so.conf |
19:07:18 | GodEater | curious - wonder where ld is getting it from |
19:07:22 | LinusN | amiconn: ah, good that you reminded me about that |
19:07:25 | Domonoky | toffe: which target ? |
19:07:35 | toffe | I installed the bootloader, the fonts and rockox with no problem, only one thing, as it was already installed the bootloader as ask to delete the .ORIG |
19:07:38 | toffe | F40 |
19:07:47 | Nico_P | GodEater: there's practically nothing in the file |
19:07:48 | * | amiconn just mounted a new MK8007GAH into his H140 |
19:07:55 | LinusN | amiconn: niiiiiiice |
19:08:13 | amiconn | Sold as used, but obviously completely blank... |
19:08:22 | Domonoky | gigabeat, good, so thats also working :-) (the advice to delete the .Orig is not good) :-) |
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19:08:39 | toffe | can you modify for the bootloader, if rockbox is already install, just update the fwimg.dat without creating the copy |
19:08:52 | Domonoky | jeah would be better |
19:08:57 | Domonoky | will change it |
19:09:27 | | Quit atsea-145193 (Excess Flood) |
19:09:59 | amiconn | A small flat heat screwdriver (1.5mm) worked nicely in place of a torx T5 |
19:10:44 | amiconn | *head |
19:11:05 | amiconn | Day of typos, obviously :\ |
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19:11:52 | amiconn | LinusN: Hmm, does that mean this problem is known? I would have expected some sort of error message... |
19:12:34 | LinusN | i discovered this over a year ago when using a H140 as an external NTFS drive |
19:13:12 | * | Domonoky found a way to use a proxy into rbutil, now to code a menu.. |
19:16:16 | jhMikeS | preglow: I've cranked it and just don't seem to hear the distinctive crackle sound. I just get distorion fuzz. < 5min to add a dump though. |
19:18:29 | bonbonthejon | with the new menus, would it be possible if you are playing a song and go into the menu then leave it sit, have it go back to the WPS |
19:18:57 | LinusN | should be possible, i guess |
19:19:07 | | Part illdred |
19:19:20 | LinusN | i wouldn't want it to do that though :-) |
19:20:12 | preglow | is anyone here now currently trying to make me authorise them on google talk? |
19:20:14 | bonbonthejon | LinusN: if i leave it on menu too long, i'd want it to go back to the WPS |
19:20:45 | preglow | jhMikeS: 24 db gain at bass does nicely here |
19:20:53 | preglow | jhMikeS: the distortion changes character rapidly |
19:21:02 | preglow | jhMikeS: stops sounding like clipping and starts sounding like overflow |
19:21:13 | LinusN | bonbonthejon: it would of course be selectable in the settings |
19:21:19 | preglow | jhMikeS: yeah, i'll add a dump func some time |
19:21:28 | preglow | can't now, though, need to codeon other stuff :/ |
19:21:33 | bonbonthejon | LinusN: yeah, maybe that would be a good idea |
19:21:36 | pixelma | bonbonthejon: I guess that will always kick in at the wrong time... |
19:22:12 | bonbonthejon | pixelma: well just now, i must have left it on menu for 5 minutes, i think it would be ok by then |
19:22:53 | LinusN | bonbonthejon: out of curiosity, why do you want it do automatically go to wps? |
19:23:18 | perl|work | jhMikeS i had no issues with crossfading after your fix but out of 50 or so FLACS 2 has corruption sounds in the middle of them, was hard to reproduce though |
19:23:18 | | Join HcC- [0] (n=nwoIlove@S01060013104c1cee.vc.shawcable.net) |
19:23:26 | perl|work | crossfading itself is smooth |
19:23:43 | bonbonthejon | LinusN: maybe it is better this way |
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19:24:35 | LinusN | bonbonthejon: i'm just curious |
19:25:25 | jhMikeS | perl|work: that one's a little unclear why it should happen |
19:25:43 | bonbonthejon | LinusN: well i was looking at a menu option, looked back at my laptop for 5 minutes, I just thought it would be good that it went back to WPS |
19:25:51 | jhMikeS | preglow: I think the way emac satuation works it might lend a distinctive sound to things |
19:26:01 | preglow | jhMikeS: why would it do that? |
19:26:04 | perl|work | jhMikeS well maybe this time its completely unrelated |
19:26:12 | preglow | jhMikeS: it's the same on arm, btw |
19:27:02 | LinusN | bonbonthejon: file a feature request (if there isn't one already for this feature) |
19:27:12 | bonbonthejon | LinusN: ok |
19:27:19 | jhMikeS | I think that might apply to int mode more since the muls saturate as well as the accumulators |
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19:28:23 | | Part norbusan |
19:28:34 | preglow | jhMikeS: no int mode here, and anyway, arm is exactly the same |
19:28:38 | jhMikeS | do you do any left shifts that aren't saturated? the pregain does...and it would ideally use both int and frac |
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19:29:15 | preglow | as a matter of fact, i do... |
19:29:18 | jhMikeS | but you say arm does the same so I dunno |
19:29:19 | preglow | indeed i do |
19:29:22 | preglow | that would explain it |
19:29:39 | jhMikeS | oh, well that might actually |
19:30:05 | preglow | it has to be that |
19:30:11 | preglow | i wonder why the hell i didn't think of that myself |
19:30:14 | preglow | it's the only solution |
19:30:59 | jhMikeS | ideally a mac instruction would have a mode override so you could use int mode to shift left on cf. not sure what the price of changin macsr in a loop is :) |
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19:31:31 | preglow | i can't apply emac only solutions |
19:31:37 | preglow | i need to do arm as well |
19:32:08 | jhMikeS | Well, if the bits that get shifted out are not zero it should wrap no? |
19:32:20 | Domonoky | GodEater: try this binary: http://b23.org/~domonoky/rbutil-proxy.zip you can set now a proxy in the menus |
19:32:31 | jhMikeS | or all ones for the negative case anyway |
19:33:36 | pondlife | lowlight: Thanks for the tipoff, I just got my first green in the size table :) |
19:33:46 | preglow | won't all overflow? |
19:34:58 | jhMikeS | not if it's saturated to a safe level before shifting...makes me mad SATS is ISA_B only :) |
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19:35:12 | preglow | haha |
19:35:53 | preglow | hmmm |
19:36:51 | preglow | for arm, the carry bit is set if a one the last bit shifted out was set |
19:37:05 | preglow | but that might easily be zero and still overflow |
19:38:08 | preglow | i guess the only real solution is creating coefficients with fewer int bits |
19:38:53 | jhMikeS | at least make sure that's it first...just saturate before the shift (who cares if it's slow) to check it. *shrugs* |
19:39:05 | preglow | it's gotta be that |
19:39:12 | preglow | can't be anything else |
19:39:14 | preglow | but we'll see |
19:39:24 | preglow | can't test now, i'll just end up working on rockbox and i don't have time now |
19:39:25 | HcC- | what's the biggest advantage of running rockbox? |
19:39:28 | * | preglow vanishes |
19:40:23 | | Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear) |
19:43:06 | * | jhMikeS takes a timeout and counts to 2^32 to calm down |
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19:44:16 | | Nick Everybody is now known as Everybody|away (n=everybod@harpo.demon.co.uk) |
19:44:57 | bonbonthejon | HcC-: rockbox is more customizable |
19:46:13 | Llorean | HcC-: Depends on what player you have, and what uses you have for it. |
19:46:56 | Llorean | HcC-: For those of us who don't look at the screen during playback, graphical customization doesn't mean much, but the increased format support does. Or the improved battery life on the more mature targets. |
19:47:50 | pondlife | HcC- |
19:47:55 | pondlife | Oops |
19:48:19 | pondlife | HcC-: Rockbox has a voice interface and crossfades tracks nicely |
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19:53:11 | HcC- | hmm |
19:53:14 | |Rincewind| | HcC-: look here: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/WhyRockbox |
19:53:17 | HcC- | well, I have a 30gb ipod photo |
19:53:58 | pixelma | not to forget that you can drag-n-drop your music and play it |
19:54:35 | HcC- | I'm assuming the xlinux gamegear emulator won't run |
19:54:48 | Llorean | Rockbox isn't Linux. |
19:54:50 | HcC- | er ipodlinx |
19:54:53 | HcC- | I know |
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19:59:09 | Lear | Hm.. Shouldn't the recording settings menu entry be moved up a bit? To before manage settings? |
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19:59:48 | |Rincewind| | I would suggest to put recording settings inside general settings |
20:00 |
20:00:27 | |Rincewind| | it is not needed very often because you can enter the settings from the recording screen anyway |
20:01:34 | * | petur agrees |
20:02:33 | Llorean | I thought we were going to take everything out of "General Settings" since you're already in the settings menu. |
20:02:50 | Llorean | Or some similar sort of reorganization |
20:02:54 | |Rincewind| | Llorean: I hope so |
20:03:00 | jhMikeS | perl|work: so do these glitches show up on the same build as crossfade glitch did? |
20:03:31 | Llorean | |Rincewind|: Once I'm no longer sick, I plan to try draft a suggestion for an entire menu structure reorganization, if I can come up with something I think is better. |
20:03:47 | Lear | Yes, having most settings two levels down isn't ideal... |
20:04:00 | Llorean | A lot of settings seem in very strange places to me. |
20:04:06 | |Rincewind| | Llorean: I would like to help with that. |
20:05:02 | perl|work | jhMikeS i built one last night, before the big menu change |
20:05:11 | |Rincewind| | It seems to go around with being ill, last week I was sick for 6 days. |
20:06:00 | | Quit web-taz (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
20:06:02 | Llorean | Heh |
20:07:26 | perl|work | jhMikeS same FLAC files ive been playing around with for the last 2 weeks |
20:07:34 | perl|work | so i know them pretty well |
20:08:08 | perl|work | i listened to about 50 tracks this morning |
20:08:46 | perl|work | 2 had very audible glitches in the middle of them |
20:09:08 | perl|work | i did the rewind, couldnt reproduce them |
20:09:48 | jhMikeS | right: just wondering if you can narrow the date down that first has it. that helped a lot in getting to the crossfade one. |
20:10:32 | jhMikeS | so you mean it showed up only last night? |
20:10:57 | perl|work | 1 Mar 00:26 Jens Arnold was the last change before i compiled |
20:11:52 | perl|work | well its hard to say cause before your fix we had the crossfade trouble |
20:12:04 | perl|work | so i was always reverting to 0222 build |
20:12:10 | perl|work | to actually use the player |
20:16:58 | Llorean | barrywardell_: Were you the one who did a bunch of work on unifying the bootloaders? |
20:17:46 | pixelma | ? nice feature - guess that's because of the recently added "AlbumArtist" tag - but I just initialised database and at the step of commiting the files after reboot it says "committing 8/7" |
20:18:39 | jhMikeS | perl|work: what other sound features are on? eq (precut too?), dither, replay gain, etc? voice file or no? are the flacs 44.1 khz? |
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20:20:23 | perl|work | jhMikeS, 44.1khz, everything you mentioned is off, except full EQ on including precut |
20:25:25 | perl|work | and crossfade of course but no issues during actual crossfading |
20:25:47 | jhMikeS | I think the eq filters have had some modification recently. The precut is the same function that handles replaygain but that is not altered. |
20:32:20 | jhMikeS | no channel mode or crossfeed either? |
20:32:23 | Llorean | perl|work: Generally when you encounter what might be a bug, you reset the settings to default (or default + the one setting that appears to be going wrong if it's say, a crossfade issue) and see if it still happens like that so you can narrow it down. |
20:32:34 | pixelma | Slasheri: around? |
20:33:18 | perl|work | Llorean that what i did with the crossfade issue and jhMikeS was quick to fix it |
20:33:47 | Llorean | perl|work: But it sounds like you've got a whole host of settings changed for this issue. |
20:33:57 | perl|work | jhMikeS nope, those are off as well |
20:34:58 | jhMikeS | For this, setting all the sound stuff to plain passthrough should be good. So try with/without eq, and with/without precut. |
20:35:09 | perl|work | i will |
20:35:39 | Llorean | jhMikeS: Should he try with only on EQ filter, and then one Shelf filter? |
20:35:47 | Llorean | one. |
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20:38:05 | | Quit k0st0n () |
20:38:05 | jhMikeS | could try a shelf and a peaking one alone. the coefficients are set differently. |
20:38:39 | barrywardell_ | Llorean: yeah. I did good bit of the work. LinusN fixed the problems with the X5 and HXXX bootloaders |
20:38:46 | perl|work | might take a while since it occurs rarely |
20:38:56 | Llorean | barrywardell_: I was just wondering, was there any plan to unify the way they work from a user perspective too? |
20:39:09 | barrywardell_ | how do you mean? |
20:39:30 | Llorean | barrywardell_: There are some very significant differences here and there. The Gigabeat one, for example, has that image loading function, and doesn't see the rockbox binary if it's in .rockbox |
20:39:34 | Llorean | barrywardell_: Or didn't last time I checked |
20:39:46 | Llorean | barrywardell_: And I understood several others didn't see the rockbox binary in the .rockbox folder either. |
20:40:16 | barrywardell_ | ah, yes. well the gigabeat one hasn't been unified yet because the unified gigabeat bootloader didn't work for the guy who tested it |
20:40:17 | Llorean | barrywardell_: As well, the ones we have in flash have USB modes, but on the other targets nothing is done about a USB connection at all, it's just ignored. |
20:40:22 | amiconn | Afaik all swcodec bootloaders do, and those are the only ones where it makes some sense |
20:40:48 | barrywardell_ | all the ones that have been unified look for the rockbox binary in the same place, give the same error messages/codes |
20:41:10 | Llorean | barrywardell_: Okay, so it's just that gigabeat hasn't been unified. |
20:41:13 | Llorean | What about USB detection? |
20:41:22 | linuxstb | It seems the "load_raw_firmware()" function (which is what the gigabeat uses, but shouldn't) doesn't check the .rockbox directory. |
20:41:33 | barrywardell_ | yes. I can't really go further because I have no gigabeat to test with |
20:41:35 | Llorean | With the iPods and such, a boot with a USB cable attached could boot into disk mode, rather than Rockbox and then reboot into disk mode. |
20:41:44 | barrywardell_ | the gigabeat bootloader code is a bit of a mess atm too |
20:42:31 | amiconn | Llorean: Yes, but then the bootloader needs to be able to detect true usb vs. usb charger, and hence fiddle with the usb chip |
20:42:44 | amiconn | I don't know whether the apple fw will like that |
20:42:58 | Llorean | amiconn: Ah, that makes sense. |
20:43:05 | linuxstb | Llorean: That should be preventable now we can rolo diskmode directly from flash. |
20:43:14 | linuxstb | i.e. skip the reboot step. |
20:43:33 | amiconn | Can we? |
20:43:47 | amiconn | Doesn't work here.... |
20:43:48 | Llorean | amiconn: And since our loader is on disk anyway, I assume there won't be a bootloader-USB mode on iPod even when we have USB. |
20:43:55 | linuxstb | I think so... SVN Rolo should be able to load the diskmode.ipod file. |
20:43:59 | barrywardell_ | linuxstb: hmm. you're right there. the load_raw_firmware() takes a full file path |
20:44:14 | linuxstb | (dan_a committed COP support for rolo a few days ago). |
20:44:21 | barrywardell_ | linuxstb: but the gigabeat bootloader doesn't use that function without my patch applied |
20:44:53 | linuxstb | barrywardell_: But the SVN version seems to. |
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20:45:52 | barrywardell_ | oh, I hadn't noticed that. someone must have committed a change since my version |
20:46:03 | linuxstb | Yes, I think LinusN did a little work on it. |
20:46:31 | Llorean | Alright, and what about this Bootsplash functionality that the Gigabeat bootloader got saddled with? |
20:46:38 | Llorean | I admit it looks pretty in use. |
20:46:55 | barrywardell_ | my reasoning was that load_raw_firmware would be used to load an OF which is in different places based on the target |
20:46:56 | Llorean | But something about it feels wrong to me, so I'm kinda straddling the line regarding it, and wondering about where it's going. |
20:47:05 | barrywardell_ | eg. /System on PP targets |
20:47:41 | linuxstb | Personally, I think a blank screen in the bootloader is the way to go. Keeps things simple, and let the user customise rockbox itself. |
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20:48:27 | Llorean | linuxstb: Just splash an error message if there is one, otherwise show nothing? |
20:49:42 | linuxstb | Yes. In practice, we'll keep writing the text, but only call lcd_update() if there's an error (or maybe let a user hold a key to show the text). |
20:50:06 | barrywardell_ | I was thinking about that too. A splash is nice for user friendlyness. Show that first, then do as linuxstb says |
20:50:21 | linuxstb | I tried it on my ipod, and removing all those lcd_update() calls gives a noticable increase in boottime. |
20:50:29 | Llorean | linuxstb: I rather like that. |
20:50:49 | barrywardell_ | the problem with working with the bootloader is that you have to own the targets and be able to unbrick them |
20:50:51 | linuxstb | Llorean: If you want to test, just comment out lcd_update() in the printf() function in bootloader/common.c |
20:51:20 | Llorean | The bootsplash is pretty, but it seemed to me that customization should begin at the point where Rockbox itself actually booted, and that would also allow the use of an actual .bmp file anyway. |
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20:53:36 | barrywardell_ | I would be in favour of only doing a lcd_update if there's an error |
20:53:58 | barrywardell_ | and what about only looking for the rockbox binary inside .rockbox? |
20:54:24 | Llorean | barrywardell_: It's supposed to look first in /.rockbox, then outside, with the plan eventually to have the builds start putting it in there. |
20:54:43 | Llorean | Once there could be a reasonable assumption that users were using a new enough bootloader to have that feature. |
20:55:19 | petur | in the bootloader we could swap the dull ligh blue for some nice gradient... at almost no extra cost |
20:55:34 | barrywardell_ | ah, ok. How long has that been in place? Can that assumption be made yet? |
20:56:07 | Llorean | barrywardell_: I believe it was when the H120 bootloader went to either v5 or v6, and it was said "We should wait a while to make sure people have upgraded" |
20:56:26 | Llorean | v6 |
20:56:54 | Llorean | So, um, I think more than a year. |
20:57:28 | Llorean | But the Archos builds still, by necessity, need to have the firmware image in the root, and the gigabeat build will apparently need so too at the moment. |
20:57:39 | barrywardell_ | so the question is, how long is "a while"? |
20:58:19 | barrywardell_ | and can we do it separately for different targets? |
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20:58:45 | Llorean | Well, I think anyone who hasn't upgraded to v6 yet isn't going to without incentive by this point. |
20:58:55 | Llorean | And I _think_ it would just be a matter of the make zip part of the build script |
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20:59:56 | barrywardell_ | if we could do it separately for different targets, then we could do it for ipods/sansa/h10 for now |
21:00 |
21:00:09 | Llorean | I think and the iRiver H100/H300 |
21:00:41 | Llorean | Seeing as they've been able to do it since, I think, before there was an iPod port, if people were using the last bootloader released for 'em. |
21:01:17 | pixelma | so would additional firmware files you can rolo in (to try out for example) still work when they are in the root directory then? |
21:01:36 | Llorean | pixelma: RoLo shouldn't care where the files are, I believe. |
21:01:44 | Llorean | It's just a case of where the bootloader itself looks while loading. |
21:01:47 | barrywardell_ | linuxstb, Llorean: how would you feel about me getting rid of the lcd_update() until there is an error? |
21:02:27 | Llorean | barrywardell_: I'm personally for it. |
21:03:27 | Nico_P | can someone explain to me why the wps code is split bteween gwps and gwps-common ? |
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21:06:00 | Llorean | Nico_P: Is it obvious that they should be combined? |
21:06:38 | amiconn | There really should be no reason not to do it for X5 as well if it's decided to be the intended placement of rockbox.target |
21:06:46 | Nico_P | Llorean: i don't know, but i don't quite get how they are divided |
21:07:03 | amiconn | Afaik the X5 bootloader supports both locations in all its versions |
21:07:22 | amiconn | The only problematic target atm is the gigabeat |
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21:10:10 | LinusN | barrywardell_: i would want a way to force an lcd update |
21:10:24 | barrywardell_ | like a button press? |
21:10:57 | Llorean | Yes, that would be good |
21:11:13 | Llorean | Since we sometimes need to ask people their bootloader version, or other information reported by it, even when the bootloader itself doesn't error. |
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21:11:40 | Llorean | amiconn: I do think that having the .target file in /.rockbox/ makes the filetree look much nicer. Where does "Browse Firmwares" look right now for .target files? |
21:12:06 | amiconn | "Browse firmwares" was removed some time ago... :/ |
21:12:54 | amiconn | So if I want to rolo because I want to test something, I can do so right now by just going to the root |
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21:13:42 | amiconn | With the binary in .rockbox, I would first have to change "file view" to "all", then go into .rockbox, and then rolo. Cumbersome. |
21:14:21 | barrywardell_ | but how often would a normal user do that? |
21:14:30 | LinusN | i wonder that too |
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21:14:36 | linuxstb | I don't really mind what the official zip files do, as long as the bootloader keeps looking in both places, meaning users can continue to choose. |
21:14:41 | preglow | god, how little i miss "browse firmwares" |
21:14:47 | preglow | i'm not a regular user and i never used it |
21:15:05 | LinusN | i rarely use rolo myself |
21:15:14 | Llorean | Why didn't we just move Browse Firmwares to the debug menu? |
21:15:16 | pixelma | I used it a lot lately |
21:15:37 | Llorean | amiconn: If the bootloader still looks in both places, you can just move your alternate firmwares, and the original .target file, to the root before booting the player that first time. |
21:15:39 | linuxstb | It could actually become useful on ipods though if Rolo is ever 100% working - AppleOS, IPL, Rockbox... |
21:15:51 | preglow | if you're going to do a lot of roloing, just set file view to "all" |
21:15:59 | amiconn | I use rolo quite often, more convenient a reboot than shutdown + power on |
21:15:59 | preglow | i always keep it at that anyway |
21:15:59 | linuxstb | (and diskmode and diagmode) |
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21:16:18 | Llorean | linuxstb: Yes, being able to Rolo AppleOS is one of my biggest desires right now, honestly, since that would allow exceptionally fast boot times and still being able to use a decent speed USB mode. |
21:16:26 | linuxstb | How about a reboot option in the new "System" menu? |
21:16:50 | Llorean | linuxstb: I am beginning to feel that textual "Shut Down" and "Reboot" options wouldn't be amiss. |
21:16:51 | linuxstb | Which would just rolo the rockbox.xxx file. |
21:16:57 | preglow | linuxstb: btw, i had a go at removing -mlong-call yesterday |
21:17:08 | preglow | linuxstb: failed completely |
21:17:16 | linuxstb | I think everyone has tried that at one point... :) |
21:17:32 | preglow | yeah, but i did it the way amiconn thinks would work |
21:17:38 | preglow | and which looks promising |
21:17:51 | amiconn | linuxstb: 'just rolo' would only be correct for firmware loaded from file system, but not for flashed firmware or when loaded from the firmware partition |
21:18:00 | preglow | but gcc kept insisting to call functions i had attributed with "long_call" with short calls |
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21:18:06 | preglow | in some cases |
21:18:07 | preglow | mostly thread.c |
21:18:13 | linuxstb | amiconn: True... |
21:18:14 | preglow | i hope i was doing something wrong |
21:18:41 | amiconn | But a reboot option should just have to do a clean shutdown, then do a cpu reset |
21:19:01 | amiconn | (instead of cutting the power) |
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21:21:49 | amiconn | Probably some hardware needs deiniting in case one decides to reboot into OF |
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21:27:56 | linuxstb | Llorean: Does storing the Apple firmware as apple_os.ipod not work for you? (the bootloader should be able to load it) |
21:27:59 | | Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
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21:28:15 | Llorean | linuxstb: The bootloader loads it fine. |
21:28:33 | Llorean | linuxstb: But ipodpatchering the rockbox.ipod to the bootpartition shaves another couple seconds off boot. |
21:28:39 | Llorean | That's all. |
21:28:58 | linuxstb | Ah, OK. Nice to see ipodpatcher being used as a verb... |
21:29:33 | Llorean | It doesn't really lend itself to it, it seems. |
21:29:35 | Llorean | Not like dd. |
21:29:53 | linuxstb | -wf'ing... |
21:30:24 | Llorean | That'd work. |
21:30:46 | Llorean | But yeah, on the Nano Rockbox loads in about the time it takes me to blink if I've -wf'ed Rockbox to it instead of a bootloader. |
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21:31:19 | preglow | ipodpatchering <- verb of the week |
21:31:37 | amiconn | One day I'll write that ipodpatcher.rock... |
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21:32:56 | ep0ch | when's jdgordon usually around? |
21:33:04 | linuxstb | I would prefer an ipod_flash.rock... |
21:33:38 | amiconn | hmm... |
21:33:45 | ep0ch | me thinks that database shouldn't be listed in the root menu if database isn't enabled |
21:34:00 | linuxstb | ep0ch: Probably in the next hour or two - I think it's around 7.30am for him now. |
21:34:07 | ep0ch | ta |
21:34:12 | amiconn | Flashing shouldn't be difficult, the question is whether it'd be wanted (unless we can handle all hardware) |
21:34:14 | bluebrother | ep0ch: he's in australia, so at night for us ;-) |
21:34:29 | amiconn | And it'd mean an ipod would no longer be unbrickable... |
21:34:46 | preglow | amiconn: at least the firmware is pretty easily disassembable |
21:34:46 | linuxstb | Yes, we would definitely need to keep the feature hidden... |
21:34:53 | preglow | disassemblable... |
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21:35:12 | linuxstb | But I don't think diskmode is a show-stopper anymore, now that we've discovered it's a standalone app. |
21:35:12 | preglow | and with the pp emulator, we can pretty much see what is done to the hardware anyway |
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21:35:43 | linuxstb | The flashing process can keep the original Apple diskmode app in flash, which can be launched when needed. |
21:36:08 | linuxstb | But I know we still have a lot to learn about the hardware... |
21:36:08 | preglow | indeed |
21:36:22 | preglow | at least for me, the prospect of flashing an ipod doesn't seem so impossible anymore |
21:36:45 | amiconn | Definitely |
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21:36:54 | Llorean | I wouldn't mind being able to finally drop the whole boot partition entirely in the future. |
21:37:01 | preglow | oh, indeed not |
21:37:06 | linuxstb | Indeed, that would be nice. |
21:37:10 | * | amiconn thinks he should add flash id detection for ipods |
21:37:18 | preglow | no more apple logo on boot |
21:37:27 | amiconn | Most, if not all, other targets have it |
21:37:33 | linuxstb | amiconn: I tried that over the weekend, but couldn't get it to work... |
21:38:23 | linuxstb | I even went as far as unmapping memory, putting flash back at 0x0, and the DRAM at 0x10000000, but it didn't like it. Hopefully I was just doing something stupid and it will work first time for you... |
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21:41:19 | linuxstb | ep0ch: Regarding database in the root menu, I think it's good to have it there so new users know it exist. I also think it would be nice if it asks you if you want to initialise it when you first select it. |
21:42:08 | Llorean | linuxstb: I definitely think it should offer that, though I still feel that there should be some more clear sign that the database initialization is in-progress. |
21:43:21 | LinusN | absolutely, the current silence is horrible |
21:43:57 | LinusN | sure, updating in the background is cool and all, but the user wants to know when it is done, and doesn't mind waiting |
21:44:16 | LinusN | user friendliness should be a priority in this case |
21:44:50 | Llorean | Especially since most of our users who use the DB at all, depend on it to even find their music so aren't likely to be doing much else while they wait, but wait. |
21:45:07 | Slasheri | i hope there would be support for viewports/different windows |
21:45:19 | Slasheri | then there could be tagcache statusbar visible while it's building |
21:45:25 | | Join linuxstb_ [0] (i=5343d4aa@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
21:45:33 | Llorean | I know we have that "DB Status" page in the debug area, could we show users that when they select the Database from the root menu, if it's in-progress? |
21:45:36 | LinusN | Slasheri: i don't think many users would care |
21:45:38 | Llorean | And maybe add a message to reboot when it's done? |
21:46:16 | Slasheri | LinusN: but that statusbar would be always top of all screens until scanning is finished |
21:46:27 | Slasheri | and user could continue using the player in meanwhile |
21:46:46 | pixelma | speaking of database... should I be able to "update now"?I think I heard that this is impossible when database is not in RAM - and afaik this is not possible on Archos or maybe I don't remember correctly... |
21:47:02 | Llorean | Slasheri: If that were the case, you could just replace the disk access icon with a % complete. |
21:47:05 | LinusN | Slasheri: that's what i mean - i don't think many users care about being able to use it while building the database |
21:47:11 | Llorean | Since the disk access icon isn't much use while building anyway. |
21:47:13 | linuxstb_ | Why not display a "database progress" screen (similar to the debug screen I guess) when the user selects Database when the database initialisation is in progress? |
21:47:28 | Slasheri | pixelma: you can "update now", it should always work if database has been initialized |
21:47:39 | Llorean | linuxstb_: I suggested that a few lines up. ;) |
21:47:40 | Slasheri | LinusN: ah, hmm |
21:47:54 | linuxstb_ | Llorean: Great idea :) |
21:48:05 | pixelma | yeah - but then I have a bug for you... |
21:48:06 | Slasheri | linuxstb_: that would be a good solution.. |
21:48:12 | Llorean | I think it'd get the job done, plus a user can leave it if they want to use their player. |
21:48:30 | Slasheri | somebody just needs to have some time to implement it |
21:48:35 | LinusN | the status bar can be turned off though |
21:48:40 | amiconn | This MK8007GAH spins up quite fast :) |
21:48:51 | petur | it does? |
21:48:54 | Slasheri | pixelma: what is the problem with it? |
21:48:56 | amiconn | yes |
21:49:07 | linuxstb_ | Maybe we need some kind of page for "officially approved features" - i.e. things we all want, but no-one has time to do... |
21:49:09 | Llorean | LinusN: My favorite is still just having a status screen from the Database root menu entry, while in-progress. |
21:49:10 | petur | amiconn: making a h180? |
21:49:20 | amiconn | I now have one :D |
21:49:25 | Llorean | linuxstb_: I think that is a VERY good idea. |
21:49:36 | pixelma | Slasheri: I initialised database, then I removed the MMC, then hit "update now" - this process hangs |
21:49:41 | petur | I'm still waiting for my MK8007GAH to arrive |
21:49:56 | Llorean | "Developer Feature Requests" as it were. |
21:49:59 | pixelma | Slasheri: "progress" stayed at -1 |
21:50:04 | pixelma | % |
21:50:06 | Slasheri | Llorean: hmm, indeed! the current statusbar could show the percents! |
21:50:11 | ep0ch | linuxstb_: but if someone doesn't use database at all then having database in the root menu aint so good |
21:50:25 | Slasheri | pixelma: is database initialized, so are you able to use it? |
21:50:40 | amiconn | The MK8007GAH spins up almost half a second faster than the MK4004GAH |
21:50:44 | ep0ch | linuxstb_: or is there a way to configure the root menu via the settings? |
21:50:47 | Llorean | ep0ch: It may not be "so good" but is it actually bad? |
21:50:52 | amiconn | (at least my unit does) |
21:50:55 | LinusN | Llorean: perhaps, but i still think the user (and ultimately we who answer dumb questions in the forums/irc) would be better off with a simple, modal progress screen |
21:51:05 | Slasheri | ep0ch: and if someone uses just the database, then having "files" in the root menu isn't good either? =) |
21:51:12 | Llorean | LinusN: How do you mean? |
21:51:17 | ep0ch | all true |
21:51:27 | amiconn | (and my H1x0 is quiet again, yay) :) |
21:51:30 | pixelma | Slasheri: yes - and also while committing at reboot the splash showed "committing 8/7" if I saw it right |
21:51:34 | ep0ch | so i'll will make my own patch then :p |
21:51:54 | Slasheri | btw, i was thinking to implement "Delete" in the context menu for database mode also |
21:52:09 | LinusN | you select "initialize", and the player will be "locked" with a progress bar until it finishes |
21:52:19 | Slasheri | then selecting some entry, for example a "worst tracks" query, would delete all those files |
21:52:33 | ep0ch | i'd also still love to see a clear playlist option in the playlist menu :) |
21:52:39 | Llorean | LinusN: I'd rather it take them into the progress screen, but allow them the option to leave it if they want. |
21:52:42 | Slasheri | pixelma: will be fixed |
21:53:01 | Llorean | LinusN: I'm all for showing them the screen by default, but since it's updating in the background as is, you might as well let them leave it, if they feel the need to. |
21:53:15 | pixelma | Slasheri: which one? ;) |
21:53:20 | Slasheri | LinusN: in statusbar, it could just show a database icon above the disk icon and percents next to it |
21:53:29 | Slasheri | pixelma: that 8/7 |
21:53:37 | amiconn | LinusN: You wanted to be reminded of the current vs. backlight brightness measurements on H300... |
21:53:40 | LinusN | Slasheri: you mean the statusbar that the theme can hide? |
21:53:47 | Slasheri | LinusN: yes |
21:53:54 | pixelma | alright... any ideas about the other problem? |
21:53:59 | amiconn | Oh, and while at it, petur wanted something traced on H300.... |
21:54:00 | LinusN | Slasheri: get my point? |
21:54:03 | Slasheri | LinusN: i was thinking a different statusbar, but the current one shohuld do it too |
21:54:11 | Slasheri | yep, i got that |
21:54:29 | LinusN | why is it so important to be able to use the player while initializing the database? |
21:54:37 | petur | :D |
21:54:39 | * | amiconn wouldn't like the database init to lock the whole unit |
21:54:44 | Slasheri | some users might prefer it |
21:54:49 | LinusN | it only gives us support trouble |
21:54:57 | amiconn | LinusN: Because it can take quite a while? |
21:55:00 | LinusN | so? |
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21:55:01 | Slasheri | LinusN: or there must be some other way to put the initialization process in background |
21:55:06 | pixelma | LinusN: some prefer to look at the progress in the debug menu too |
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21:55:23 | LinusN | pixelma: "keep out" ? |
21:55:25 | Llorean | LinusN: I initialize it so that I can have some custom searches, but I almost never use it, and occasionally find myself needing to reinitialize it (managed to delete the .rockbox folder, or intentionally did so) . It'd be nice not to have to sit and wait when that happens. |
21:55:26 | Slasheri | LinusN: it could be default on fg but pressing some buttons would bring it bg |
21:55:30 | amiconn | One can continue listening to music (file browser mode) meanwhile, or playing a game plugin etc |
21:55:54 | Llorean | LinusN: I just don't see why it's essential to force them to stay on the screen either, as compared to forcing them into the screen, but allowing them the option to leave it. |
21:55:56 | LinusN | amiconn: i know that, but is it *important*? |
21:56:01 | pixelma | LinusN: maybe that's superfluous then, actually I don't mind |
21:56:11 | amiconn | LinusN: Yes. Did you ever try database on archos? |
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21:56:36 | LinusN | Llorean: maybe i'm misunderstanding things, but don't many users have problems with rebooting the player too early? |
21:56:36 | Slasheri | and user can turn off the player while database building is not completed |
21:56:55 | amiconn | I think it would work quite nicely when entering the database view while the database isn't ready yet would show the progress screen |
21:57:14 | Llorean | LinusN: The most common two problems I've seen is either 1) Assuming it's done instantly and not realizing it's in the background, or 2) Never realizing they needed to reboot at all. |
21:57:31 | LinusN | why is (2) important anyway? |
21:57:40 | Slasheri | Llorean: reboot is not always necessary |
21:57:47 | LinusN | is it a buffer_alloc() issue? |
21:57:57 | Slasheri | Llorean: that depends if dircache is active and how much space needs to be allocated |
21:57:58 | Llorean | Slasheri: It seems to fix things in the majority of cases where the database isn't ready after an init, though. |
21:58:30 | Slasheri | LinusN: yes |
21:59:10 | amiconn | The database view could also ask to init and/or reboot as necessary |
21:59:12 | LinusN | i can go with having a progress screen when you select "Database" |
21:59:15 | Slasheri | currently database is only allowed to steal dircache or tagcache ram buffers |
21:59:46 | amiconn | I.e. when you eneter database and it's not initislised, it could ask "Initialise now?", and then show the progress screen |
21:59:51 | Llorean | LinusN: I do agree though that when they choose to initialize, the next screen they see should be the progress screen. They should have to consciously leave it if they want updating in the background. |
21:59:58 | amiconn | ...still allowing to exit to the main menu and use other things |
22:00 |
22:00:11 | LinusN | ok |
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22:00:28 | amiconn | ...but when staying there, then init has finished it could also ask for the reboot |
22:00:39 | Llorean | amiconn: That sounds good to me. |
22:00:39 | LinusN | yup |
22:00:46 | pixelma | yes... but some of the optimisations Slasheri said were possible would be nice too ;) |
22:00:49 | amiconn | Re-enerting should of course show current progress again |
22:00:56 | amiconn | *Re-entering |
22:01:01 | LinusN | of course |
22:01:15 | Slasheri | pixelma: might be |
22:01:23 | Slasheri | pixelma: but not easy to do |
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22:01:45 | pixelma | just wishful thinking... |
22:01:48 | | Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
22:01:58 | Slasheri | pixelma: performance is already optimized quite high |
22:02:13 | linuxstb_ | amiconn: That's exactly the solution I was thinking of as well. |
22:02:50 | xu | Hi. I like the new root menu. But would it be possible to make the order of entries configurable? For example, I never use the database but use FM radio quite often (I have H120). So I would like to have FM right after Files. |
22:03:16 | xu | We could have a file rb_root_menu in .rockbox and place text entries there. |
22:03:44 | xu | If this file is not present, the menu will be created in its "default" order |
22:03:50 | pixelma | Slasheri: as you can imagine I don't speak of performance here ;) |
22:04:22 | xu | I understand that this is just a part of more general concept of configurable menus but the root menu is so important that... |
22:04:28 | LinusN | xu: it is not trivial to do, but we have discussed it |
22:04:55 | amiconn | Configurable menus are a big problem wrt localisation |
22:05:22 | LinusN | amiconn: yes |
22:05:25 | amiconn | Same problem exists in the database view |
22:05:26 | * | Llorean thinks his H120's disk is near death. |
22:05:28 | xu | I've looked at the code. The callbacks are passed as va_args. Couldn't the y be passed as an array? Then we could fill the array in the right order. And even hide some entries (e.g. database for me) |
22:05:47 | * | alienbiker99 needs a new H320 battery |
22:06:14 | xu | amiconn: I think just be able to configure the order of entries in the root menu would suffice |
22:06:47 | Llorean | Isn't the FM radio option already less pressed from 'start position' than it used to be, anyway? |
22:06:58 | xu | Since it's used a lot. And if it's as I (or you) like it, that would take away much pain |
22:07:48 | | Part Margot_ |
22:07:57 | xu | The recent commit by Marcoen Hirschberg shows that there are different views on this |
22:07:59 | Slasheri | pixelma: and you have a player with 32MB of ram (or more)? with size optimizations, you wouldn't gain anything. But for archoses those would be useful but needs big programming time efforts |
22:08:02 | Llorean | I'm just worried about the potential for havoc a customizable root menu would cause. |
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22:08:18 | Llorean | People would be breaking their root menu by typos in the file all the time, I suspect. |
22:08:30 | xu | Llorean: yes, it's much better now. But while we're at it we could make it not just better but very much better |
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22:09:19 | Llorean | xu: The primary purpose of a DAP is playing stored audio files, which I think is why it makes sense for the first two entries to relate to that. |
22:09:20 | XavierGr | Llorean what's up with your H120? |
22:09:27 | xu | Llorean: if any error is detected in the file (unknown entries, typos, etc) the menu would take the default form |
22:09:35 | Llorean | Customizability may be up in the air, but I don't think FM should move in the hard-coded version. |
22:09:48 | amiconn | Slasheri: Size optimisations are always useful imho. Just thinking about how to optimise often shows clever solutions which are both smaller and faster, at least that's my impression |
22:09:54 | Llorean | XavierGr: The disk is making a loud whining noise. |
22:09:59 | pixelma | Slasheri: I think you would gain there too - and if it just makes further coding easier in the end (which I would expect to happen - as a non-coder though) |
22:10:18 | amiconn | You're right that the benefit is larger for small-ram targets, but then the archoses are not the only ones |
22:10:20 | XavierGr | Llorean: Then your H120 is fine, the 20 GB disk is near its end! :P |
22:10:39 | Llorean | Llorean: That's why I said I think my H120's disk is near death. :-P |
22:10:40 | xu | Llorean: Amen to files. No amen to DB. A dap is for listening. According to this logic, FM could be the second entry. |
22:10:40 | XavierGr | if it dies change your Disk and there you have a new H120 :D |
22:10:49 | XavierGr | oops |
22:10:50 | * | amiconn thinks about the iFP here, which has to squeeze more functions in less ram than the archos |
22:10:53 | Llorean | XavierGr: :) |
22:11:01 | * | XavierGr hides in shame |
22:11:11 | linuxstb_ | amiconn: Although the ifp is flash, so buffering audio is less important. |
22:11:16 | alienbiker99 | does the root menu settings have an option to change the order around? |
22:11:19 | Slasheri | amiconn: true, but i still think performance should be the primary goal |
22:11:30 | amiconn | linuxstb: Yes, but all necessary stuff has to fit.... |
22:11:32 | Llorean | xu: How is DB not an access scheme for music files on the disk? |
22:11:42 | xu | Llorean: since there is already an entry for playing files (Files). And the second entry to do the same (DB) could be moved down. Just my view. |
22:11:48 | Slasheri | if performance would be secondary, it would be possible to shave huge amounts off the code and causing db to be very sluggish, almost unuseable |
22:12:03 | Llorean | xu: Then move Files down, and leave DB there. Population-wise, our users prefer DB. |
22:12:25 | Llorean | I don't use it, but if you're going to favour one, you should do it based on population use. |
22:12:38 | amiconn | 1MB for rockbox core + codec + plugin + buffer *is* tight.... |
22:12:41 | xu | Llorean: it depends very much on the concrete user. |
22:13:19 | Slasheri | amiconn: but there is no need for buffer with flash devices (except some small pcm buffer) |
22:13:21 | xu | Llorean: and if wouldn't be much pain to implement why not please everyone? |
22:13:35 | Llorean | xu: It's already been said that it would be both a pain to implement, and probably support. |
22:13:55 | Slasheri | amiconn: of course that would prevent using some features like crossfade |
22:13:59 | amiconn | Slasheri: There is a need for at least a small buffer if we don't want to change the whole playback concept. Of course this buffer can be quite small |
22:14:09 | Slasheri | yes |
22:14:17 | Llorean | xu: Plus, I suspect that if you make the root menu configurable, it'll just inspire people to demand the other menus be so as well. |
22:14:19 | amiconn | ...and the buffer is also used by some plugins |
22:14:48 | amiconn | That's a reason why the buffer shouldn't be too small even on Ondio. |
22:15:05 | amiconn | Battery wise it doesn't make a measurable difference |
22:15:09 | xu | Llorean: yes, I see that. But IMHO the root menu is a special case. It's used much more often than the other menues |
22:15:36 | * | amiconn hopes to be forced to use the root menu as little as possible |
22:15:48 | pixelma | in my imagination optimised, smaller code (not shaving off something) would increase performance too - but maybe that's fiction |
22:16:15 | xu | Llorean: it's the main switching point and should therefore be made as to please everyone as much as possible. Every single one and not just the majority (what is that?) |
22:16:53 | Llorean | xu: Well, you are free to submit a patch for customizing it. |
22:17:11 | alienbiker99 | i agree with xu, it would become the most used menu, so why not have it customizable to be the most productive menu |
22:17:18 | Llorean | xu: But I think it's really unnecessary complexity, and I think that it will encourage people to want the whole menu structure customizable, giving them the excuse to bring that issue back. |
22:17:28 | xu | amiconn: me too. But if I want to switch from file playback to FM... |
22:18:05 | * | amiconn didn't upgrade to a root menu enabled build yet |
22:18:06 | Llorean | xu: You click on an FM Preset file... |
22:18:11 | pixelma | speaking of the root menu... now that I tried SVN... not being able to go left-to-main-menu feels a bit strange, too - because you can get back from every other screen (settings etc.) - only not from filebrowser or database view |
22:18:30 | LinusN | pixelma: i agree |
22:18:41 | * | Llorean cheers! |
22:18:42 | xu | Llorean: I could try. But I think the current way the menu is defined (macro + va_arg) does it really hard |
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22:19:07 | Llorean | xu: Then make the other change you suggested. I thought you were the one who thought it wasn't too much trouble to go through... |
22:19:24 | Llorean | xu: But as I said, if you want a shortcut to the FM Radio, you can put an FM Preset file anywhere in your filetree and click it. |
22:19:26 | xu | Llorean: my file browser shows only music files. As you said, a dap is there for listening. To music. Or to FM (in my case) |
22:19:35 | Llorean | xu: Change it to "Supported" then. |
22:19:47 | LinusN | xu: file playback to fm: click Menu and then select FM from the main menu how hard can it be? |
22:20:00 | Llorean | LinusN: It's apparently one too many options from the top. |
22:20:11 | LinusN | incredibla |
22:20:21 | xu | LinusN: more clicks than possible / necessary |
22:21:00 | preglow | there'll always be more clicks than necessary |
22:21:09 | preglow | if we were to code every possible shortcut, rockbox would be a mess |
22:21:13 | xu | Please don't get me wrong. I like the new menu and consider it a great step forward in RB usability. But... |
22:21:15 | Llorean | The "necessary" number of clicks can always be reduced to "1" |
22:21:23 | LinusN | i'm sure it's one or two clicks away from being optimal - but is it worth cluttering the code (and the support channel) only to save a few clicks? |
22:21:32 | xu | preglow: I don't want a new shortcut |
22:21:46 | Llorean | xu: Try the FM Preset method, like I suggested then. |
22:21:47 | preglow | xu: well, being able to reorganise the menu is in essence a shortcut, if you ask me |
22:21:49 | XavierGr | xu: why don't you do what Llorean says and place an fmr file in your root folder? |
22:22:13 | XavierGr | fmr files were made for radio shortcut reasons too |
22:22:26 | Llorean | xu: Then you can set up your player so that you need 0 button presses from power up to Filetree, and Two (Up, plus click) for FM Radio |
22:22:30 | xu | Llorean: then I'd always to browse to the root (or to the folder where fmr files are placed) |
22:22:59 | XavierGr | but the file menu is already on top :P |
22:23:13 | XavierGr | browsing to the root is swift |
22:23:15 | Llorean | XavierGr: It's still more button presses than having FM Radio second in the file menu. |
22:23:29 | xu | XavierGr: but the FM is not the next to top |
22:23:39 | pixelma | xu: but that became easier - when you use filebrowser, just hold left and you'll be back at the root directory |
22:23:59 | LinusN | pixelma: still more than 1 click |
22:24:05 | XavierGr | geesh! |
22:24:14 | xu | pixelma: yes, but why do I have to lose my file browsing context to switch to the radio? |
22:24:14 | XavierGr | that is more finicky than I am |
22:24:15 | Llorean | LinusN: Would it be possible to have "Hold Left" take you to Root of filemenu, and then a left-press from there take you back to the Menu, so it lands between the two extremes? |
22:24:32 | LinusN | that's how it worked a few days ago |
22:24:33 | Llorean | xu: Then make a patch. As I said, you're welcome to submit it. |
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22:24:53 | pixelma | hehe... you can have it with one click when the playlist is empty... |
22:24:57 | Llorean | LinusN: I only tried the version of the patch, and now SVN, where you have to use Menu to leave the file browser. |
22:25:18 | XavierGr | Linus: pondlife will be happy that you changed your mind on left-on-root to root menu |
22:25:20 | LinusN | maybe we should reintroduce the left-to-menu feature |
22:25:21 | xu | Llorean: yes, that's the way. Sorry if I've brought up a discussed issue. I have not read throughthe recent IRC logs. |
22:25:41 | LinusN | xu: that was discussed months ago |
22:25:56 | Llorean | xu: Customizable menus seem as if they'd be much more hassle, both in code and support, than they're worth. |
22:25:58 | pixelma | xu: ...set "FM Radio" as start screen and when you press "resume" it'll start the radio when there's nothing in the playlist |
22:26:07 | LinusN | my general view of configurable ui is: avoid it |
22:26:24 | LinusN | pixelma: not if you go from file playback to fm |
22:26:26 | Llorean | LinusN: I definitely think it feels contrasting that you can Left-To-Menu from settings, but not Filetree, for example. |
22:26:42 | LinusN | Llorean: i understand |
22:26:49 | pixelma | LinusN: yes - just discovered that yesterday |
22:27:03 | linuxstb_ | That's what |