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#rockbox log for 2007-03-13

00:00:21 Join midgey [0] (
00:01:08cynicalliberalDonvito: I can probably make one... but getting it to you might be difficult.
00:01:20donvitocynicalliberal: yea, haha
00:01:32donvitocynicalliberal: would Damn Small Linux be able to build e200tool?
00:02:31cynicalliberaldonvito: not too sure, I'm not a developer. I'm a geek with too many toys and no self control. ;)
00:03:17donvitocynicalliberal: haha, then were in the same boat
00:03:29donvitocynicalliberal: in know some basic programming and whatnot, thats about it
00:03:30Sniper_Spikethat led me to bricking my old cell phone! XD
00:03:50Sniper_SpikeI'm not doing the same with my sansa.
00:05:16cynicalliberaldonvito: I actually might be able to help you... how much longer are you going to be on?
00:06:42donvitocynicalliberal: ive got a while, 2ish hours
00:06:48 Quit ender` (" But there, everything has its drawbacks, as the man said when his mother-in-law died, and they came down upon him for the fu)
00:06:52 Quit ompaul ("night - how come it is night when you leave and morning when you join ...")
00:07:10Sniper_Spikemerwin: how's it going with the hebrew fw?
00:07:40cynicalliberaldonvito: ok, because I need to run to campus so I can run my office hours... but they're in the comp lab and I can bring my laptop.
00:07:52donvitocynicalliberal: oh cool!
00:08:03 Join barrywardell [0] (
00:08:06donvitocynicalliberal: do you use aim or something?
00:08:15merwinSniper_Spike: I am trying to get rockbox to boot now.... the rockbox fw locks at "SanDisk", while the sansa firmware boots... i might re-download the rockbox bootloader
00:08:27merwinhaven't even gotten to the hebrew yet
00:09:15cynicalliberaldonvito: because I made a vmware environment for an ubuntu install and its actually not that big. yeah, same name. I keep things simple
00:09:27donvitocynicalliberal: haha cool
00:09:59cynicalliberaldonvito: I gotta run but I should be on soonish
00:10:02Sniper_Spikewhat do you mean merwin?
00:10:07donvitocynicalliberal: ok ill be here
00:10:42Sniper_Spiketo boot the sansa firmware you have to go through the rockbox firmware
00:10:53Sniper_Spikei mean
00:10:58Sniper_Spikerockbox bootloader
00:11:03 Quit qwx (
00:11:03 Quit preglow (
00:11:03 Quit Kasperle (
00:11:07merwinSniper_Spike: no, i had problems with the rockbox bootloader itself
00:11:15merwinSniper_Spike: just got it working, going to decrypt the hebrew mi4
00:11:16 Join qwm [0] (
00:11:26NJoinpreglow [0] (
00:11:40Sniper_Spikethe hebrew firmware has a new bl I believe
00:11:54merwinSniper_Spike: Do you know if i use the G or the H?
00:12:02Sniper_SpikeNo idea
00:12:28Sniper_SpikeI'll look on anythingbutipod
00:12:46 Join webguest78 [0] (i=ac951b3f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:17:03Sniper_SpikeG is the european, thats why you need to downgrade to A before you install H
00:17:03 Quit webguest78 (Client Quit)
00:17:19Sniper_Spikefrom bulldaWg
00:18:02Sniper_Spikeapparently the H version has radio as well
00:18:07Sniper_Spikewhile G doesn't
00:18:31_AmblinSomeone on that site just installed rockbox and forgot to include the OF.bin
00:18:42_AmblinI get a timeout with that link
00:19:33merwinSniper_Spike: i have american normally :)
00:19:44Sniper_SpikeI was just quoting him
00:19:44merwinhow do you "downgrade" to american?
00:20:12Sniper_Spikeas I understand
00:20:20 Join jhulst [0] (
00:20:21Sniper_Spikehe means if you installed G
00:20:25Sniper_Spikeand are having problems
00:20:34Sniper_Spikedowngrade to 1.02.15A
00:20:36Sniper_Spikeand install H
00:20:52NJoinKasperle [0] (
00:21:45merwinrockbox can't boot hebrew G
00:21:52merwini'm going to try h
00:21:56 Join entheh [0] (
00:22:17 Join lavid [0] (
00:25:01 Quit robin0800 ("goodnight all")
00:25:18merwinSniper_Spike: can't boot the hebrew H either
00:25:58merwinSniper_Spike: Also, the mi4decode decrypts with key sansa_gh, so that's probably the reason
00:26:29_AmblinIm having a lot of fun with Quicktime :/
00:26:53barrywardellmerwin: what error are you getting?
00:28:27 Quit cynicalliberal (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:28:47Sniper_Spikeso what would the problem be with, the rockbox bl?
00:29:03Sniper_SpikeI mean
00:29:38Sniper_SpikeIf you think about it, the key shouldn't have anything to do with it once the firmware is decrypted, right?
00:30:04 Join robin0800 [0] (
00:30:38 Join vertz [0] (
00:31:03barrywardellassuming he decrypted it properly. I wonder if he also stripped the header?
00:31:40 Join cynicalliberal [0] (
00:32:03Sniper_Spikethe '-s"?
00:33:23_AmblinWhere would I go about downloading plugins for rockbox?
00:33:46safetydan_Amblin, the plugins are already in the build
00:34:02_AmblinWell Im hunting for the Mpegplayer.
00:34:19_AmblinIs it not included as its still a work in progress?
00:34:19Sniper_Spikethere's a link to it on the wiki is there not?
00:34:26_AmblinLemme check that
00:34:27safetydanThat's a viewer not a plugin, and it is included.
00:34:29merwinSniper_Spike: I didn't use -s :)
00:34:36cynicalliberal_Amblin: it should already be in there
00:34:46safetydanRead the documentation here
00:35:06merwinSniper_Spike: I think when you install the hebrew version, it changes your player to only accept the sansa_gh key
00:35:22Sniper_Spikebut all you did was run the mi4
00:35:29Sniper_Spikeyou did nothing with the bootloader
00:36:06merwinSniper_Spike: i tried just loading the mi4 into my player, and it won't boot
00:36:08 Part toffe82
00:36:22merwinSniper_Spike: It changes the bootloader somehow i think, when you run the installer
00:36:32Sniper_Spikeyes it does
00:36:32merwinSniper_Spike: I also tried decrypting it and letting rockbox try to boot it
00:36:34merwinSniper_Spike: didn't work
00:36:42Sniper_Spikeit changes the files the bootloader searches for
00:36:59cynicalliberalmerwin: were you able to decrypt it?
00:37:12Sniper_Spikebut why did you run the installer?
00:37:20merwincynicalliberal: Yeah, but it decrypts it with the sansa_gh key and not the sansa key
00:37:25merwinSniper_Spike: i didn't run the installer
00:37:29merwinSniper_Spike: I'm not dumb :)
00:37:43Sniper_Spikeso your bootloader should not be affected
00:38:07 Quit petur ("sssssssssss---------PLOP!")
00:38:12cynicalliberalmerwin: which mi4 did you use? the g or the h?
00:38:21Sniper_Spikehe tried both i believe
00:38:22merwincynicalliberal: Tried both
00:38:35vertzhow come rockbox uses so much battery?
00:38:48cynicalliberalmerwin: ah, I was looking at them and wondering what the difference was.
00:39:04 Join GodEater_ [0] (
00:39:10_AmblinFor the Mpegplayer, I should be looking in the plugins menu for something by the name of Mpeg Player, or Mpeg Viewer?
00:39:10cynicalliberalvertz: because it hasn't been optimized for said hardware
00:39:26merwinWhere can i find the BL_SD_boardSupportSD.rom for the normal e200?
00:39:34Sniper_Spikeno should should not amblin
00:39:35vertzcynicalliberal: will it ever be?
00:39:43Sniper_Spikejust run a mpeg file with it
00:39:45 Quit Alonea (Remote closed the connection)
00:39:46Sniper_Spikego to files
00:39:56cynicalliberalvertz: I hope so!
00:39:56_AmblinI see
00:39:56Sniper_Spikeand "open with..." i would assume
00:40:01safetydan_Amblin, read the documentation. You should just be able to "play" the file
00:40:07vertzcynicalliberal: me too :)
00:40:17_AmblinOk, thanks.
00:40:46barrywardellmerwin: why do you want it? it shouldn't be necessary to have that file for running rockbox
00:41:50Sniper_Spikedoesn't the bl search for the mi4 (which would actually be the rockbox bootloader)?
00:42:09merwinbarrywardell: Just for trying some stuff
00:42:45barrywardelli wouldn't recommend "just trying some stuff" with the bootloader - people have bricked their sansas that way!
00:43:03merwinbarrywardell: I know... i've got two of them though :P E200, and E200R
00:43:20barrywardellbut if you really want to, you can download it from here:
00:43:38 Quit z35 ("Leaving")
00:43:46 Quit amigan (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
00:43:53Sniper_Spiketheres no link for it
00:43:57barrywardellbut don't say i didn't warn you!
00:44:14cynicalliberalits the BL ROM I believe?
00:44:16Sniper_Spikethe 1.02.15A row just says
00:44:32Sniper_Spike"regular bl" without a link
00:45:08Sniper_SpikeI would assume it's a shared bootloader with another version then?
00:45:24barrywardellprobably, but I'm not sure
00:45:33barrywardellBagder would know, but he's not here right now
00:46:13 Join fatman2 [0] (
00:46:16fatman2 hello i am fatman and i weigh 400 pounds. you can see videos of my supreme fatness at
00:46:25merwincynicalliberal: it's BL_SD_boardSupportSD.rom
00:46:41merwini extracted it from the exe on daniel's site
00:47:02 Quit zylche (Remote closed the connection)
00:47:25Sniper_Spikethere's the mi4 and the bl
00:47:43 Part fatman2
00:48:25merwinwhen you use the e200tool recover, you have to have BL_SD_boardSupportSD.rom in the same folder, right?
00:48:58Sniper_Spikeas the mi4?
00:49:14merwinfor the "e200tool recover" command
00:49:34Sniper_Spikedon't know..
00:49:37donutman25does anyone here have the newest hebrew firmware in a zip?
00:49:52merwindonutman25: just download the hebrew firmware, and extract it with winrar
00:49:55 Quit GodEater (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:50:16 Join Ribs [0] (n=ribs@
00:50:30Sniper_Spikemake sure you select the firmware from the "...H" folder
00:50:36Sniper_Spikeand not G
00:50:38 Quit Thundercloud__ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:50:53cynicalliberalSniper_Spike: what's in G?
00:51:04Sniper_Spikeeuropian firmware
00:51:35Sniper_Spikewithout FM
00:52:56 Join SofRaZorbacK [0] (
00:53:32 Quit robin0800 ("Never put off till tomorrow, what you can do the day after tomorrow")
00:53:57SofRaZorbacKhi, is there an admin who can help for wiki access please?
00:53:58 Join cynicalliberal_ [0] (
00:54:06barrywardellmerwin: why are you trying to recover if your sansa is already working?
00:54:55merwinbarrywardell: trying to convert sansa's between different types (r to normal, etc)
00:55:47 Quit roolku ()
00:56:03 Quit HawkSlayer ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
00:56:22 Join cynicalliberal__ [0] (
00:57:06 Quit cynicalliberal__ (Client Quit)
00:57:10SofRaZorbacKor, maybe someone in here has enough access to move an attached file on a wiki page. I've uploaded a voice file but i need to update it with a new one cuz the first contains a mistake. any help?
00:57:43barrywardellmerwin: dan_a tried doing that earlier. maybe he can fill you in on what he did
00:57:50barrywardell(if he's around)
00:58:10 Join cynicalliberal__ [0] (
00:58:16 Join bagawk [0] (n=lee@unaffiliated/bagawk)
00:59:07Sniper_Spikeim out for tonight
00:59:33 Quit Sniper_Spike ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
00:59:58 Join Nackon [0] (
01:00:20Nackonis there a utility that'll let u format 60GB HD into Fat32 under winxp?
01:00:32merwinbarrywardell: I heard about it
01:00:38GaloisI have wiki access (I think)
01:00:49merwinhe made a e200 into an e200r and couldn't get it back
01:00:53merwini'm tryin to go the other way :)
01:01:02barrywardellah, ok
01:01:10Nackontrying to format this HD for my iRiver player..
01:01:16NackonXP won't do it natively
01:01:48FebsGod, I can't stand people who ask for help and then don't listen to the advice they receive.
01:01:54 Quit GodEater_ (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
01:01:58pixelmaSofRaZorbacK: you can edit it yourself (IIRC you already have write access) - click on attach - then a list of the already attached files comes up and then you can choose "manage" and it lets you upload a new file then
01:02:04 Quit cynicalliberal (Read error: 148 (No route to host))
01:02:15 Nick cynicalliberal__ is now known as cynicalliberal (
01:02:47 Quit cynicalliberal_ (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
01:02:53NackonFebs: was that for me?
01:03:13FebsNo, sorry. Just venting about the forum thread I just linked to.
01:03:57safetydanNackon, there's some utilities out there that will let you format a drive larger than 32GB with FAT32. Unfortunately I can't remember any of their names. Google is probably your best bet.
01:04:27Nackonjust tried swisskife, it thinks my drive is 40gb
01:04:44SofRaZorbacKthx pixelma, i'll try
01:04:59Nackonsafetydan: yeah, been googling for the past hour couldn't find nothing :/
01:05:11Nackonmaybe I'm not googling right hehe
01:05:26safetydanNackon, if you really get stuck you could always use a Linux boot CD to do it :)
01:05:52Nackonwill it detect USB HDs?
01:06:13FebsYou might also be able to do it using the native firmware's format utility.
01:06:44cynicalliberalthere's a linux clone of partition magic out there... I can't remember what its called
01:06:49NackonFebs: nope, it doesn't do it gives error (lots of ppl seem to have same error)
01:07:22Nackoncynicallliberal: for windows?
01:08:09Nackonyeah, it's linux based
01:08:41cynicalliberalyes that's the one I was thinking
01:10:00Galoishm, system rescue cd used to have QTparted, but now it has gparted
01:10:52 Quit jhulst (Remote closed the connection)
01:11:58merwinApparently you can't flash the e200 bootloader onto the e200r, even using e200tool
01:12:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:12:10 Join JdGordon [0] (i=82c20d6a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:12:15JdGordonhey all
01:12:40 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
01:12:41JdGordonjhMikeS: have you seen another nasty voice bug :(
01:14:03JdGordonat least i think its a voice problem and not a menu one...
01:15:23cynicalliberalNackon ^
01:16:29Nackonthanks, lemme see...
01:16:33 Quit Nimdae (Remote closed the connection)
01:17:43 Quit JdGordon ("CGI:IRC")
01:17:47 Join JdGordon [0] (i=82c20d6a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:18:12 Quit SofRaZorbacK ()
01:18:19 Join chris_ [0] (
01:19:18 Join zylche [0] (
01:19:28cynicalliberalNackon: if it works, for future reference I found it on wikipedia under FAT32
01:19:42chris_hi guys, anyone with a sandisk e200? How's the battery life? Says not optimal in the wiki but doesn't give times.
01:19:50 Quit stripwax (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:19:53pixelmaJdGordon: strange thing... these 3 strings are new since the main menu, no?
01:20:22barrywardellchris_: nobody has done a battery life test yet
01:20:58jhMikeSJdGordon: will check out
01:21:03 Quit obo ("bye")
01:21:05cynicalliberalbarrywardell: I wouldn't mind doing it... the plugin should work "out of box" right?
01:21:26chris_barrywardell: oh well, it's cool what happened with the company that provided the DAC though;) I like the sansa.
01:21:52 Quit donvito ("Anacna "Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely"")
01:22:24barrywardellcynicalliberal: the only problem you will encounter is with it wanting to shut down before the battery is actually dead.
01:22:25_Amblinchris: From my use of rockbox today Id estimate no less than 10 hours of battery life under RB
01:22:33JdGordonpixelma: didnt he say all the main menu didnt voice? not just the new strings? and only after stopping playback which is why i tihnk its actually voice related
01:22:38barrywardell i'm currently working on getting more accurate battery readings, so if you wait till I commit my changes, then it will be easier
01:23:03_AmblinRight now Rockbox reads my batter as 5% yet the original firmware reads my batter as 2/4ths full
01:23:13chris__Amblin: that's cool. I look forward to more improvements in it. I gotta replace my ipod mini but need something that does audio books ok and rockbox appears to. Other than that, It looks like more ipods for me...
01:23:30Nackoncynicallliberal: well it involves using windows to create a disk, and windows thinks I got a 2terabyte HD
01:23:33cynicalliberalbarrywardell: sure
01:23:37jhMikeSJdGordon: If I have voice on, so far I've always heard the main menu voice right from startup
01:23:43pixelmaJdGordon: he says "the "Settings", "Files", and
01:23:43pixelma"Resume playback" options stop speaking
01:23:59pixelmaafter stopping playback
01:24:18 Quit zylche (Remote closed the connection)
01:24:33jhMikeSI havent' observed myself a problem with any of them so far ... those or any others
01:24:36barrywardell_Amblin: that's because we have yet to calibrate the battery readings
01:24:50jhMikeSstopping playback or not
01:25:08jhMikeSbut I'll go throught the recipe and see
01:25:33_Amblinbarry: I know, thank you for your work on it
01:26:15donutman25i have had it
01:26:44donutman25mpegplayer is just tooo hard to work on. i'm moving on to something more simpler
01:26:53*JdGordon doesnt have a voice file here so cant actually test
01:26:55pixelmacan't comment on this as I don't have an up-to-date voice file - the new ones are almost all too big and the one available for my player that fits (which is available) is one I don't like too much
01:26:59 Join stripwax [0] (
01:27:44_AmblinOne of the main reasons I was jazzed about rockbox is because I would finally be able to use a better video codec
01:27:51JdGordonpixelma: do you know how big the plugin buffer is on the archos?
01:27:54 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:28:11pixelmano idea about the plugin buffer
01:28:40safetydanJdGordon, I have a vague recollection that it's 64k
01:28:43*JdGordon wonders if we can split the voie file into 2, and put the smaller one in the plugin buffer if its not being used
01:28:53JdGordon64K isnt very big :(
01:29:03safetydan64k should be enough for everyone
01:29:06jhMikeSthe prlugin buffer isn't being used?
01:29:17_Amblin64K is...really tiny..
01:29:20jhMikeSthe current codec and the plugin share IRAM
01:29:23donutman25trying to figure out how to implement the circular buffer for mpegplayer has given a major headache
01:29:41JdGordon0x8000 is 64k?
01:29:56jhMikeS0x8000 = 32k
01:29:57JdGordonso its even smaller :p
01:30:00pixelmaJdGordon: it should become better with the langV2 cleanup - with it target specific voice file are possible
01:30:41pixelmaand I guess a split voice file isn't very handy
01:30:46JdGordonsafetydan: any idea when that will be ready?
01:31:17vertzJdGordon: got some happy scroll news for me? hehe
01:31:18jhMikeSI'm thinking it's time to put the in place codec swapping in and gear it up to use different voice codecs anyway
01:31:18JdGordonyea, split voice files would suck, but if there is no other way.....
01:31:30safetydanJdGordon, sounds like soon. Nils has basically taken over the patch from me.
01:31:38JdGordonvertz: well nope :) I fixed it up for ipod, but it didnt work so well
01:31:48pixelmanls is also working on it - and I am starting with it too
01:32:24 Join zylche [0] (
01:32:35 Quit cynicalliberal (Read error: 148 (No route to host))
01:33:36vertzJdGordon: oh, how come? how well did it work? usable at all?
01:33:59 Join Nimdae [0] (
01:34:09jhMikeSAnd if we could get rid of that voice thread ... should be possible but needs another type of codec ... rrrr more work
01:34:52JdGordonvertz: it sort of worked, but after a while even if you didnt touch the wheel, as long as you kept going in the same direction it would strat skipping heaps of items
01:38:18JdGordonthere is a patch on the tracker which has the ipod stuff in it if you really want to try it
01:38:53JdGordonbut hopefully scroll speed will work differently/better on targets with a scroller (ipod, gb, e200)
01:39:47 Join toffe82 [0] (
01:40:10vertzJdGordon: i'll check it out
01:40:24vertzhmm, i wonder, is there something you ca use to like tag files?
01:40:54JdGordonthere are lots of somethings you can use to like tag files
01:41:04vertzi use to listen to audiobooks at work, would to nice to tag the latest file i listened to
01:44:41 Join jhulst [0] (
01:45:53 Quit inversions (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:45:58pixelmaahaha... looking at the langV2-patched simulator but not having chosen english as lang file leeds to interesting menu names and submenus... :D
01:46:48JdGordonhow so? everything is wrong?
01:47:05 Join ross [0] (
01:47:07 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
01:48:00pixelmayeah - because they aren't translated. I have a "Apr" and "Dec" in the settings menu, I can enter "Apr" and get "Mai", "Jun"... as entries...
01:49:33pixelma(only english.lang as the master is changed)
01:49:38 Quit ross (Client Quit)
01:51:53JdGordontere are two updated lang files on the tracker.. should we bother commiting them? or leave them if the cleanup is close?
01:53:18 Quit donutman25 ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
01:53:19 Join HEx [0] (
01:53:47pixelmadunno... can't really tell how long it'll take.
01:55:51pixelmabut now that I've experienced this - I think it's very important to get translated lang-files with it too very soon (because some of the entries will be way off - if you can say so)
01:57:23pixelmaI mean you can move it around from the existing ones but if you don't understand the language that'll be very hard
01:57:26JdGordonthe binary version is getting bumped so it shouldnt accept old .lngs right?
01:58:16pixelmaguess so
01:59:18JdGordonbah, fs#6765 doesnt give his full name...
01:59:31JdGordonunless we dont bother about that and the credits file for langS?
02:00:22pixelmaI thought we do
02:01:29vertznight all
02:01:57 Quit Nackon ()
02:03:41 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
02:06:06 Quit barrywardell ()
02:06:53 Join amigan [0] (i=dcp1990@unaffiliated/amigan)
02:07:02 Quit muesli__ ("ich will Khe!!!")
02:07:04 Join barrywardell [0] (
02:09:02 Quit JdGordon ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
02:14:28SoapIMHO (which isn't worth a pile of beans because I don't submit code) ipod, gb, and sansa should scroll lists based on speed, not length of button press, but that's neither here nor there.
02:23:16 Part pixelma
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02:28:04 Nick cynicalliberal__ is now known as cynicalliberal (
02:28:21 Quit entheh ("^~")
02:29:22Thundercloudgrr brb
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02:33:30 Nick bospaadje_ is now known as bospaadje (
02:33:34Arathisbarrywardell: reading the recent svn commits the bootloader on h10 shouldn't print any output, right? It would just be iRiver BL −−> RB logo −−> RB menu
02:33:57barrywardellArathis: yes, unless there is an error or PLAY is held
02:35:59ArathisHm, I don't see an error (at least it doesn't stop) and I don't push play, but it still appears as before/normal. I tried resetting the player settings more than one and deleted the whole .rockbox before updating (config, tag-cache and bookmarks where saved and restored)
02:38:00barrywardellhmmm. did you compile the bootloader from SVN? the version on hasn't been updated yet
02:38:58ArathisAh, okay. I only download latest SVN builds
02:40:13barrywardellno, you need to build a new bootloader (ie. mi4) and update that
02:40:52Arathisoh, sure. Didn'T think of that.
02:40:57Arathismy fault
02:43:27Arathiswell, I think I'll wait till "someone" uploads a new one. My rockbox updating script checks out the date of the bootloader on so I will notice when there's a newer version. The change isn't a feature I cannot live without ;)
02:45:23*cynicalliberal pokes the sansa install forum as the same question is already appearing over and over.
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03:08:07JdGordonaliask: you at uni?
03:08:18aliaskNope. I finished at 11am today
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03:08:40JdGordonim boooored
03:08:57aliaskI was serious about those bigger icons in the menus.
03:09:02aliaskThey'd look really nice.
03:09:55JdGordontheyd look awesome... and could in theory be done
03:10:02JdGordonbut they might look odd with colour bacjdrops
03:10:28aliaskAh yes, the problem of alpha levels... or lack thereof
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03:11:04JdGordonactually... as long as they dont have the magenta transparent colour in them they could look ok
03:11:06aliaskWell, I guess there's always bmp transparency, that'd be ok I guess
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03:11:37aliaskWhy would the magenta transparency be a problem
03:11:38*JdGordon had a go at themeing the whole list, but failed because of the evil bmp drawing code
03:11:48JdGordonit would look funny...
03:12:02aliaskNot necessarily
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03:12:33aliaskYou could write a png renderer with alpha channel support if you're THAT bored...
03:12:49JdGordononly have 45min... not long enough :p
03:13:54aliaskYou at the library or something?
03:15:01JdGordoncomp lab
03:16:45JdGordonhmm... why doesnt the text get drawn onto a seperate buffer from the rest of the image so we could have text ontop of pics :(
03:17:31JdGordonthen when a rect is updated copy the background buffer, then the image buffer then text text buffer onto the lcd frame buffer...
03:17:44JdGordonit would slow things down a bit but make it better!
03:17:55*JdGordon talking to self :p
03:19:09aliaskI have had very similar thoughts
03:19:36aliaskI think if we ended up with alpha support in the core it'd have to be done somehow like that.
03:20:47JdGordonfor simplicity, the text buffer would only need to be 1bbp instead of the full depth.. unless we wanted different colours in the text
03:21:08JdGordonthen we could do funky shit like gradients in the text colour
03:21:19aliaskOr antialiasing
03:22:17JdGordonand they wanted to use the 2nd core for _audio playback_.... silly buggers.. the drawing thread should go there :p
03:22:48aliaskHaha, but then we become like iPL, prettiness > functionality
03:23:31JdGordonwe are half there already...
03:23:44*JdGordon just found a bug in the tree browser
03:25:30*JdGordon doesnt like coding in vim
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03:27:29chris_holy carp, there are themes for the sansa e200 already. nice
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03:28:26JdGordonnot many tho :(
03:28:45chris_yah, it's still cool.
03:28:53JdGordonhmm... this bug doesnt apear to be where I thought it was
03:29:04chris_I'll have to throw rockbox back on my ipod mini to see if I still like the bookmarking functionality or not.
03:29:10aliaskJdGordon: Don't like coding in vim? It's so easy to spot mistakes!
03:29:27JdGordonI dont like working in vim at all actually
03:29:33JdGordonspecially not coding... I like the mouse
03:30:03chris_you'll get used to it;) I used to hate vi. now I just loathe vi, soon I may tolerate vi;)
03:30:04aliaskTakes a bit of getting used to, but I prefer it to gui coding. I almost never use my mouse anyway.
03:30:34chris_it's really nice if you have the 500 or so hours to learn all the tricks..
03:30:34cynicalliberalis there any particular reason why the backdrops are .bmp?
03:30:46chris_and I'm not adding anything to the conversation so I'll be quiet now..
03:30:56aliaskcynicalliberal: Because they are easy to render
03:30:56safetydan cynicalliberal, because bmp is really easy to support
03:31:27aliaskI win!
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03:31:42cynicalliberalah, ok. I was wondering because .bmp are usually rather large files
03:31:43safetydannot on my screen :)
03:31:56aliasksafetydan: The logs back me as the winner, I checked :)
03:32:40aliaskcynicalliberal: Yeah, you have to remember that most of the players that rockbox run on have pretty limited CPU's
03:32:41safetydancynicalliberal, disk space is the one thing we usually have a lot of so large files aren't really a consideration. CPU and memory are always constrained so compressed formats are actually a net loss
03:32:47safetydanbah, beaten again
03:33:10aliaskNah, I'll let you have that one, your answer was more complete.
03:33:16cynicalliberallol, safetydan you get... style points?
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03:34:03JdGordonwell... we could really add support for any format really... the hard part is the loading... once its in memory it will be stored in the native format anyway
03:34:29cynicalliberalwell anyway, thanks to the both of you I now understand.
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03:36:04aliaskJdGordon: But the renderer itself would have to be in memory, and the more complicated it is the larger it's likely to be.
03:38:25JdGordonna, the loader could be a rock
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03:45:18DPicWhat is the difference between Ipod Video, Ipod Video - Boot, and Ipod Video - sim?
03:45:23jhMikeSJdGordon: I thought awhile back about adding a small header to the images that would give needed info about it so that a single bitmap function can be used for all types and no need to pass the sizes. Would simplify a lot of stuff really and is probably a fairly simple change.
03:46:01LloreanDPic: One's the build, one's the bootloader, one's the simulator.
03:46:30LloreanjhMikeS: Don't bitmaps already have a header with depth, width, and height? i'm new to all of this
03:46:39DPicWhich one do i need?
03:46:50LloreanDPic: Are you reading the manual?
03:46:50jhMikeSyou pass it to every instance of a call
03:46:54DPicThe documentation is pretyt confusing
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03:47:03LloreanjhMikeS: Oh, I was thinking of on-disk bitmaps, not the internal bitmaps
03:47:19LloreanDPic: Are you reading the _manual_
03:47:25jbwanhad a bit of a flub and had to reload rockbox firmware today
03:47:27LloreanDPic: The PDF one.
03:47:40DPicI'm at this one
03:47:44jbwanI was experimenting with different apps to transfer songs and I think YamiPod or gtkPod did something to it
03:47:51jhMikeS:) I think adding some info like that would reduce size. Font glyph headers can be made on the fly or made unnescessary.
03:48:07LloreanDPic: Okay, and I assume you're at the point where it tells you to download the current build, right?
03:48:21LloreanDPic: Please, read the text at the top of the page it sent you to.
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03:48:35Llorean"Below the table are builds of Rockbox"
03:48:40LloreanThe table itself has nothing you need.
03:49:47DPicI'm a little dense sometimes
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03:53:50jbwanLlorean: do you know if there are people(s) testing iPod media transfer apps? rhythmbox, gtkpod, yamipod etc.. ? Or does anyone care?
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03:54:32Lloreanjbwan: Most of use just use whatever file browser we use.
03:55:47jbwanLlorean: do you have a recommendation?
03:56:02jbwancause I'm still trying to tweak my iPod to Linux and get a good library set up
03:56:15LloreanI just have all my music on my player.
03:56:28LloreanI dragged it there once, in Windows Explorer, and was done with it...
03:56:59LloreanI don't really have a use for a 'sync' program of some sort.
03:57:27GaloisI find command line tools like rsync to be quite suitable for ipods
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03:58:03Galoisrsync -a, for example, will compare date stamps and only upload newer files, and it traverses directories recursively
03:58:56jhMikeSback to catchup work. time to kill remote ticking on the x5 :P
03:59:24jbwanhmm... what dir do I dump the music into for rockbox?
03:59:34jbwanthe generic music dir on the ipod?
03:59:41sneakumsrsync is pretty handy
03:59:49Galoisyou can put it in any directory except ipod_control
04:00:08jbwanand when you do the db sync it will find it?
04:00:09sneakums"rsync −−delete -vrtm −−modify-window=2 ~/oggchive/ /oggpod/music/", which handles fat's bogus timestamps and also doesn't whine when it can't set the some unix-type permissions that fat doesn't support
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04:00:26sneakumsand also deletes files no longer present in the source directory
04:00:40GaloisI never used dbs, but my guess is yes
04:01:19LloreanGalois: You can even put it in ipod_control, it's just silly to since it's hidden.
04:01:32Lloreanjbwan: If you're referring to the Database Update, that searches the entire contents of your drive.
04:02:14Galoisfor simplicity it's better to tell new users that ipod_control is off limits even though there are ways around it
04:02:44LloreanGalois: I don't think it's ever good to outright lie to people.
04:03:18jbwanhehe didn't mean to start a quibble
04:03:33GaloisI think you can word it in such a way that it is not a lie
04:03:38LloreanThe only thing that restricts use of ipod_control is that it's hidden. It's hardly a large stumbling block. You could just say "You can put files anywhere, but ipod_control is hidden so music in it won't be visible"
04:03:48Galoisthat wording is too complicated
04:04:10Galoisnew users are not the same as longtime developers and we should not treat them the same
04:04:24LloreanHow is that too complicated?
04:04:47LloreanAs far as I'm concerned, telling them a folder can't have music in it is a thousand times worse than taking an extra few seconds to type a longer line and clarify something.
04:04:59LloreanBecause then you get them telling other users the same thing, and then people actually _believe_ that it's true.
04:05:27Galoisthere's no reason why anyone would ever WANT to put music in ipod_control anyway. You're acting like it's a big crime against humanity to restrict this folder.
04:05:51LloreanNo, I'm acting like it's frustrating that you lied about the capabilities of Rockbox when you said "you can put it in any directory except ipod_control"
04:06:10LloreanYou could've said "You can put it anywhere, but shouldn't put it in ipod_control" if you didn't want to explain things.
04:06:12Galoistechnically, I lied in the sense that you can put music anywhere no matter what rockbox thinks
04:06:36LloreanEither way, your statement provided misinformation about what Rockbox can or cannot accept.
04:07:16GaloisI honestly think the world would be better off if everyone had the false impression that ipod_control was off limits than if everybody had the false impression that ipod_control was a normal folder to rockbox, which it ain't
04:07:27LloreanIt is a normal folder to rockbox.
04:07:28LloreanIt is 100% normal
04:07:35Galoisit clearly is not. It's hidden by default.
04:07:40GaloisThat makes it different from other folds.
04:07:49LloreanAny folder marked as hidden will be hidden.
04:07:52LloreanThis is normal filesystem behaviour.
04:08:04GaloisIt's hidden by default (emphasis added)
04:08:12LloreanThat doesn't make it abnormal TO ROCKBOX.
04:08:19Galoisit makes it different.
04:08:25LloreanThe folder itself is different, yes.
04:08:33LloreanBut Rockbox doesn't _treat_ it differently
04:08:40Galoisthe folder is different in a way that confuses new users if they treat it as the same
04:08:48LloreanSo tell them not to use it.
04:09:00LloreanBut don't lie to them and tell them Rockbox treats it different, or that Rockbox can't use it.
04:09:04Galoisthat's what I said, I said you can't use it. Obviosuly this is not to be taken literally, since literally you can use it.
04:09:17GaloisI admit I lied in that sense.
04:09:25LloreanMany people WILL take it literally.
04:09:39Galoisif they are THAT prone to confusion, better that than the other confusion
04:09:51LloreanLittle statements like that have, in the past, come back as incredibly silly feature requests. Yours could come back as something like "Please let music in ipod_control work"
04:10:07LloreanNo, better explain to them WHY not to use it.
04:10:10LloreanThen make them think they can't.
04:10:22LloreanIf you can't be bothered to answer a question in a factual manner, just ignore the question.
04:10:33LloreanBut don't lie to our users about the capabilities of the software just to make your job easier.
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04:10:57LloreanIt makes support harder in the long term.
04:11:11GaloisI still disagree. Any user stupid enough to deliberately put music in ipod_control and then lodge a feature request asking for that use case to work is really too much trouble than they're worth. They will cause support problems in many other ways other than just this way.
04:11:46LloreanAnd if you'd told him HOW to use music there or WHY he shouldn't put it there instead, maybe it wouldn't be a problem.
04:11:51Galoisit's not like there is some stunningly attractive property of ipod_control that will induce users to actively want to put music there.
04:12:10LloreanMaybe he already knows that iTunes syncs music to ipod_control, and your statement made him think Rockbox couldn't play itunes synced music?
04:12:52LloreanOur hypothetical user could actually _not_ be clueless, and take your worse literally, added to a bit of real knowledge, and draw a perfectly logical but improper conclusion.
04:12:58Lloreanwords literally
04:13:16Galoismaybe, but there are so many faq entries on this exact subject already and people who I have never spoken to in my life still have difficulties
04:13:45LloreanYes, but people are more likely to trust a human being than the FAQ.
04:13:48LloreanAssuming they've even read it.
04:14:09LloreanWhy is it so hard to just say "I won't lie to your users about what your software can do."
04:14:20GaloisI won't. I'm sorry I lied.
04:14:58LloreanI'm sorry I'm making a big deal about this, but I read dozens of support requests a day about Rockbox, and I have very real firsthand experience about how "Someone told me that..." comes back to haunt, quite literally, me.
04:15:34GaloisI think the danger of a new user putting their music in ipod_control, not seeing their music, and getting disgusted with the whole project, is a much more common and much more important case than the corner case that you're presenting of your hypothetical user who satisfies a ton of unlikely conditions and gets misled in the other direction.
04:15:56LloreanSo tell them not to use it.
04:15:58LloreanTell them WHY not to use it.
04:16:03LloreanEducate the user a little bit.
04:16:17Galoishowever, I admit that lying is suboptimal, so I will not lie.
04:16:19LloreanBut don't mislead them by telling them they _can't_ use it.
04:17:27LloreanSorry, I kinda blew up about this.
04:17:31LloreanIt's just a major pet peeve of mine.
04:18:25GaloisI was trying to save you support requests. If users don't know about the hidden property of ipod_control then you'd be getting not dozens, but hundreds of messages asking "where r my filez"
04:19:13GaloisI thought this tradeoff was acceptable. However I agree that I should not only try to trade off hundreds for dozens, but also eliminate the ensuing dozens if I can. So I will do that in the future.
04:19:14LloreanOnly if you don't tell them anything at all, rather than telling them why not to.
04:19:52LloreanYou assume that the only trade was hundreds for dozens, but that's assuming you tell them nothing vs telling them they can't do it, and leaves out the case of actually explaining things to them, again.
04:20:31LloreanYou presented that as if the only two options were "Tell them it can't" and "Don't tell them it can't", which isn't the case.
04:21:01LloreanThe "Don't tell them it can't" includes many "Tell them something else" cases that could also reduce the 'hundreds'.
04:21:25jbwanLlorean: so .... is there any type of assistance needed with the project besides coding?
04:21:55Lloreanjbwan: Submitting patches or suggestions for clarifying and improving the documentation.
04:23:30jbwanhow does one go about making suggestions for improving the documentation? There doesn't appear to be a wiki
04:24:51LloreanWell, if the documentation needing improvement is on the wiki, you just edit it.
04:24:56jbwanhey... whatdya know... there is a wiki
04:25:06LloreanIf it's in the manual, you post a patch or edited file, to the patch tracker.
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04:31:01Galoissorry to return to this, but ... I don't think the central issue is truth vs. falsity. There are at least three potential responses to the question "where do I put my music": 1) anywhere, 2) anywhere except ipod_control, 3) anywhere except ipod_control and <insert explanation about hidden directories>. 1 & 3 are true statements, 2) is false. Yet response #1 causes many more support requests than response #2, which in turn causes a few more support requests t
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04:33:53LloreanGalois: Your messages got cut off after "few more support requests"
04:34:00Galoisthan response #3.
04:34:17LloreanThe point I was making though is that you didn't just say "anywhere but ipod_control", you said you can't put it there, without explanation at all.
04:37:46merwinis there a way to have rockbox show hidden folders?
04:38:13Lloreanmerwin: Yes, if you set the File View (which is in the main menu structure somewhere, or the quick menu) to All instead of Supported
04:38:56Lloreanmerwin: If you're in the filetree, hold down the Menu button to get the quick menu
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04:41:15merwinwhat is the menu button on the sansa?
04:42:00Lloreanmerwin: The button at the bottom of the wheel
04:42:13merwinmakes sense
04:42:21donvitoanyone here familiar with running e200tool with a rhapsody sansa?
04:42:36merwindonvito: Yeah, what part are you looking for?
04:42:57donvitomerwin: well as far as ive heard, im going to need to do it under linux
04:43:08merwinmost likely
04:43:09donvitomerwin: because i guess the win bin is buggy
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04:43:21merwindonvito: well, it'll either work or it wont
04:43:25donvitomerwin: ok, do you use a vmware image for that or do you have linux installed?
04:43:34corevettehow do you create a database for music on rockbox....a how to somewhere?
04:44:05merwindonvito: I have a vmware image, but doesn't support it out of the box... it would be better for you to start fresh.
04:44:21merwinbecause i can't send you a 2 gig vmware image :)
04:44:22donvitomerwin: k, well maybe ill just install ubuntu
04:44:26donvitomerwin: rgr that hah
04:44:56merwinAnyone, any clue why rolo on sansa only works once? the second time locks it up
04:44:56donvitomerwin: well i ask because bagder proposed that i switch the default BL with a e200 BL and see if it works
04:45:09merwindonvito: you have an e200r?
04:45:26donvitomerwin: yep
04:45:26donvitomerwin: e260r
04:45:26merwindonvito: don't bother, i just tried it
04:45:30donvitomerwin: damn
04:45:35donvitomerwin: im so desperate lol
04:45:42donvitomerwin: i want this to go somewhere
04:46:12merwindonvito: I've got e280, e280r ... e280 is perfect, but e280r has protections built in
04:46:18merwinnot sure what they are
04:46:33merwinsomeone earlier successfully turned an e200 into an e200r, but couldn't turn it back :)
04:46:49donvitowith a BL swap or what?
04:46:52donvitoand fw
04:46:57Galoisisn't that a :( instead of a :)
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04:47:09merwinGalois: for him, yes... for me, no
04:47:16merwinGalois: Because I was going to try the same thing.
04:47:25donvitothat is sweet
04:47:46donvitoi wish we could do the opposite lol
04:47:54merwindonvito: It'll happen eventually
04:47:59donvitoso what did it do when you tried it?
04:48:31merwindonvito: Extracted both of my bootloaders, tried to write damn near everything to my e200r
04:48:43merwinit will say it's writing it, but won't take
04:48:55donvitomaybe theres a way to combine the two..?
04:50:28corevettewhere do you stick music so it goes in the database?
04:52:12Lloreancorevette: You can put music anywhere on the player, database will scan the whole device when you tell it to initialize or update.
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04:54:06donvitomerwin: you should post on the forums that it didnt work so bagder will see it
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05:20:56cynicalliberalI'm not sure if this has been covered before, forgive me if it has, but does the e200 charge when its plugged via usb while running rockbox? Or does it only just notice that its plugged in and that's it?
05:23:09_AmblinI was wondering that as well
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05:35:03_AmblinWell Im having a fun time trying to find an application that will agree with Mpegplayer's sound requests
05:36:19LloreanMP3 audio is a strange request?
05:36:48LloreanHave you simply tried VLC as described on the PluginMpegplayer wiki page?
05:37:45cynicalliberal_Amblin: are you speaking of the sync between the audio and the video?
05:39:27_AmblinNo, I have 2 differnt apps I usually use for for video editing, unfortuantely they only allow for mpeg with mp2
05:40:14Lloreanmp2 is "mpeg audio", have you tried them?
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05:40:58_AmblinWell the 2 files I tried had video, but unfortunately, I got no sound
05:42:22_AmblinI played around with some of the options in the second app, waiting for it to churn out a file
05:42:39LloreanYou might want to ask linuxstb about that. I think mp2 audio should work, though I'm not 100% certain.
05:43:06LloreanBut out of curiosity, why didn't you just use a program like VLC or mencoder that supports the exact specifications?
05:43:30_AmblinBecause I wanted something that was load and go
05:43:47_AmblinIf these apps dont work, I will use the VLC method
05:44:42LloreanThe VLC method is pretty automatic...
05:44:53LloreanYou create a batch file, and you can just drag and drop any video file onto it, and out pops a converted one.
05:45:09_AmblinAh, so thats how it works.
05:45:20_AmblinHow would I go about editing the settings?
05:45:33_AmblinSorry, I am completely new to these things.
05:45:37LloreanHave you actually _read_ the PluginMpegplayer page?
05:46:02_AmblinYes, I have
05:46:30LloreanCurious, it describes the drag and drop bit with a batch file...
05:46:47LloreanRead the section about VLC a little more carefully, it explains how to pick the settings and everything.
05:47:32cynicalliberalIt's a pretty nifty little code
05:49:11_AmblinAudio with MP1
05:49:36_AmblinBut its out of sync pretty badly
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05:49:55LloreanThat's because Mpegplayer doesn't do any syncing yet.
05:50:12LloreanIf you turn on frameskipping and framerate limiting in it, they'll stay together somewhat better, though
05:50:22cynicalliberalYeah, Elephant's dream does the same
05:50:48corevettewhat advantages do flac files have over mp3's? besides lossless
05:51:00LloreanWhat do you mean, exactly?
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05:51:37corevettewhy would someone choose flac over mp3?
05:52:03cynicalliberalI got some pretty fuzzy audio with MP2
05:52:16corevettefirst off its mp3
05:52:20Lloreancorevette: That's just a rephrasing of your previous question. What kind of advantages?
05:52:40LloreanSound is vague too.
05:52:40corevettei don't know
05:52:51corevettewhat file format do you use?
05:52:52cynicalliberalcorevette: I'm referencing a conversation taking place before you came in
05:52:53LloreanBecause it's lossless, FLAC is the highest possible audio quality: It's exactly identical to the original source.
05:53:18_AmblinAudio fanatics love it.
05:53:24LloreanIt's kinda the definition of lossless.
05:53:49LloreanYou can't really compare it to lossy formats on 'audio quality', because by definition, lossy formats cut bits of the audio. The whole thing is never there, the question boils down to whether or not your ears can hear the missing bits.
05:53:58cynicalliberal_Amblin: its somewhat amusing, the audio is fuzzy but almost completely in sync with the video
05:54:01LloreanAt 128kbps or higher, statistically speaking, the answer is most likely to be 'no, your ears cannot'
05:54:13Galoiseven if your ears can't hear the missing bits, there are valid reasons to archive files in lossless instead of lossy formats
05:54:24Galoisfor example, you might want to re-encode someday to take advantage of codec improvements
05:54:43_AmblinThe file I encoded earlier was in 48000, which I read doesnt play as well in sync as 44100
05:54:47_Amblingive this a shot
05:54:57corevetteso if i go from flac....then back to mp3.....will i lose any sound?
05:55:11corevettequality that is
05:55:29Lloreancorevette: Are you talking about going from MP3 to FLAC first, since you said 'back to mp3'?
05:56:56LloreanThat's pointless.
05:57:04LloreanYou can't GAIN quality from converting.
05:57:06corevetteyes i know...but what if
05:57:08corevettei know
05:57:15corevettepretend i like my files in flac
05:57:17LloreanSo why would you go from MP3 to FLAC?
05:57:22Galoismp3 to flac to mp3 will lose a lot of quality
05:57:46corevettemp3 to flac to mp3 = flac to mp3 ?
05:57:46Galoismp3 to flac will not gain or lose quality, but will make your files a lot bigger for no reason (and you can't make them any smaller again unless you further sacrifice quality)
05:58:02Lloreancorevette: MP3->Flac->MP3 = MP3 to worse MP3
05:58:17Lloreancorevette: You CANNOT gain from converting, so you get NOTHING from going MP3->Flac.
05:58:22corevetteyeah i know
05:58:35corevettewhat about mp3 -> ogg ?
05:58:39corevettei know you lose
05:58:44Galoismp3 to ogg is just as terrible as mp3 to mp3
05:59:12Lloreancorevette: If your files are already MP3, you shouldn't be converting them. Period.
05:59:15Galoisit depends on your settings and the music, but in most cases it's very noticeable whenever you do lossy to lossy
05:59:22 Quit donvito ("Anacna "What gets you promoted on one level will get you fired on another"")
05:59:22LloreanUnless you NEED to make them smaller, and are willing to accept significantly worse quality.
06:01:01corevetteso why would anyone want flac then?
06:01:17cynicalliberalflac them from the source
06:01:17Galoisbecause some people source their music from high quality sources like cds
06:01:25Lloreancorevette: Most people would go from CD->Flac
06:01:37corevettewould it create a large file still?
06:01:50LloreanBut it's still about 2/3 to 1/2 the size of a CD.
06:02:05GaloisDVD to flac also makes sense, even though most of the time DVD is technically lossy compression (like AC3)
06:02:06LloreanYou save space, but don't lose ANY quality from the CD.
06:02:18LloreanGalois: It only makes sense if you can't play AC3. :-P
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06:03:19LloreanI wonder if Rockbox can playback 5.1 AC3 properly, or if it's limited to stereo.
06:03:38aliaskI think it downsamples internally
06:04:01aliaskCan H100 output 5.1?
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06:04:10LloreanI do not know.
06:04:16LloreanI know it can't accept it as input though. :)
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06:04:32LloreanOr at least, not as we're currently set up.
06:05:15cynicalliberal_Amblin: I got a decent video with mp2 audio going now
06:06:12cynicalliberalsync's pretty good too
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06:06:48_AmblinIm trying the VLC method
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06:07:25cynicalliberalThat's what I did, one for mp2 and another for mp3 audio
06:08:14Enraged_NoobHey guys, Mind if I get a quick question?
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06:08:26cynicalliberalConsidering there's no sync between the two... they're pretty well in step
06:08:38LloreanEnraged_Noob: Questions are always welcome, though you may be referenced to documentation if it's in it, rather than being directly answered.
06:09:03Lloreancynicalliberal: If framerate limiting is on, and it doesn't end up needing to skip many frames, the audio can end up very nicely in sync.
06:09:07Enraged_Noob^_^ I've read the docs.
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06:10:09Enraged_NoobI've installed the rockbox firmware on my ipod, but whenever I try to play music/create playlist/ database it freezes
06:10:25LloreanWhat bootloader version do you have?
06:10:31 Quit z35 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:10:50Enraged_NoobThe ipod bootloader or the Rockbox?
06:10:58LloreanThe rockbox bootloader.
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06:11:04LloreanThe thing you installed with ipodpatcher.
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06:11:19LloreanWhen you first turn on the iPod, does it show any text after the Apple logo, but before you're in Rockbox?
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06:11:22jbwanEnraged_Noob: make sure to initialize the db first
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06:11:48Enraged_Noobno text
06:11:51LloreanEnraged_Noob: Okay
06:12:05cynicalliberalLlorean: Yes, I had forgotten that I enabled that
06:12:07LloreanEnraged_Noob: Next question, do you get any error messages when it freezes, or does it just freeze?
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06:12:24LloreanIt's possibly the frequency scaling issue.
06:12:33LloreanIt's a bug that affects 4G iPods (and a few other specific players.)
06:12:34Enraged_NoobIs there a prerequisite version of the software on my ipod that i need?
06:12:55jbwanEnraged_Noob: is your ipod freezing at the apple logo on boot up?
06:13:06LloreanEnraged_Noob: See
06:13:33Enraged_NoobBut I just reboot a couple more times
06:13:33Enraged_Nooband it works fine
06:13:44jbwanEnraged_Noob: mine did that today. I just unzipped a current of DIRECTLY to the ipod
06:13:49jbwandon't try and copy
06:13:52jbwanand then reboot
06:13:58jbwanshould be fine
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06:14:28cynicalliberal_Amblin: have you tried to limit the frame rate? It is quite a significant difference
06:14:28jbwannow ... I'm using an 5G video iPod
06:14:47Lloreanjbwan: 4G iPods, and certain other targets, have a problem that fits the symptoms he's describing. Which is why I mentioned that, and referenced him to a forum thread that should _actually_ solve his problems for the time being.
06:14:55Enraged_NoobIll go download the daily build and see what happens
06:15:04Enraged_NoobThank you ^_^..
06:15:21LloreanEnraged_Noob: The build at is much more likely to solve your problems and provide a more stable experience.
06:15:23Enraged_Noobalso.. what is the freq. scaling prob?
06:16:00Enraged_Noobuh huh I meant that one . The one from
06:16:28LloreanIt's just a bug that happens when the processor changes speeds on a certain processor a few MP3 players use.
06:16:33LloreanWe haven't identified exactly what causes it yet.
06:16:51Enraged_Noobahh ..just figured it out... The power of google...
06:17:26LloreanThe build I referenced you to just leaves the processor at a faster (still safe, just doesn't save as much battery by slowing down) speed so that you don't have to change speeds, and don't trigger the freeze.
06:18:35Enraged_NoobLol . Ignores the problem for the time being^_^
06:18:45LloreanBasically, yes.
06:19:28Enraged_NoobSo besides the noscaling build, should I download the playlist patch and the COP11 builds?
06:19:38 Quit slarti (Connection timed out)
06:19:41LloreanUp to you on the playlist patch.
06:19:46LloreanCOP11 isn't valid any more.
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06:20:29LloreanI'm not really sure why he has it listed there.
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06:20:50LloreanThe COP code is now in the official SVN repository, so all of his builds should include it, and any trying to use the COP11 patch should fail.
06:22:02Enraged_NoobAlright. SaNk You ^_^
06:22:36Enraged_NoobI believe it will work perfectly - 0.o
06:22:40Enraged_NoobFor now.
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06:43:29_AmblinJust got back.
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06:44:07_AmblinShouldnt the video you feed through the vlc .bat be playable by VLC?
06:44:35_AmblinBecause when I try to play one of the converted videos, I get no video or sound.
06:44:59JdGordonaliask: nice work on resyncing tat voice patch... i belive nls was about to do it :p
06:45:13JdGordondoing the eq menu shouldnt be too hard\
06:45:21aliaskYeah, I know, but I was lazy
06:45:25aliaskAnd 24 just finished downloading
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06:46:16_AmblinSorry, random disconnect.
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07:00:33cynicalliberal_Amblin: they don't play for you?
07:01:13cynicalliberalhmm.. the ones I converted did
07:01:31_AmblinI think its the codecs I have installed
07:01:47_AmblinPretty much anything DivX has issues being converted
07:02:04cynicalliberalyeah, DivX is sort of picky
07:02:30cynicalliberalVLC actually has a conversion wizard, but yo can't resize the videos through it
07:03:26amiconnJdGordon: What about the recording settings menu?
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07:04:35JdGordonyeah yeah...
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07:07:34amiconnJdGordon: It seems that 'recording settings' (with a small submenu), and 'debug' are the only menus not yet converted in the main menu.
07:08:04JdGordonI think so. are we bothering with the debug menu?
07:08:35amiconnWhy not? Of course it doesn't get localised strings
07:09:05JdGordonok, ill try doing the rec menu tonight
07:09:35amiconnIiuc using the new system saves space, and if we convert all of them we could drop the wrapper that emulates the old functions
07:09:44JdGordonwould it be possible to draw text into a seperate buffer from the rest of the display and then put it in on top of the buffer when a rec needs to be updated?
07:10:07JdGordonit saves heaps for the settings, but the rec menu its not so much
07:12:08amiconnNo, there is no off-screen text buffer
07:12:14amiconnWhy would you need that?
07:12:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:13:46JdGordonso we can have text on top of pics
07:13:53JdGordon... on top of a background image
07:14:07*amiconn doesn't understand
07:14:23amiconnThe backdrop functionality is already there for months
07:15:08JdGordonatm, you cannot draw text on top of images
07:15:15JdGordonexcept the background image
07:15:20amiconnYOu can
07:15:37amiconnJust draw the bitmap and then the text, using the proper drawmode
07:15:43JdGordonif the text is drawn 2nd? but you cant scroll that text
07:16:06JdGordoneither way... because of the order in the wps, you cannot do this there
07:16:07amiconnThat's true
07:16:35amiconnThe wps parser needs rework. That doesn't have to do with the lcd driver
07:17:12amiconnScrolling text on top of a bitmap is not possible. It would require extra buffer memory and rather complex handling
07:17:20JdGordonbut, if we had a buffer for the text which got drawn after the rest of the image (for a rect) we could do that, and if the entire string is drawn into the text buffer scrolling would be simple, just grab a rect from the text buffer and paste it into the frame buffer
07:17:51JdGordonwhy no?
07:18:19amiconnBecause the first time you copy the text, it would overdraw the bitmap
07:18:32amiconnYou can't undo that for the next scroll step
07:19:20amiconnThat's why I wonder why you want back buffers for text. There is no visual difference whether you draw the text directly or you first draw it to a back buffer and then copy it
07:20:48JdGordonits hard to explain..... to update a rect first you copy the background for that rect, then youd copy the rect from the image buffer, then lastly you copy the rect for the text you want into the framebuffer
07:20:58JdGordonfor each update...
07:21:04JdGordonso you could scroll text over images
07:21:49JdGordonthe text buffer would only need to be 1bpp so you draw the whole line and copy the rect you need, even if the line is wider than the screen
07:22:01amiconnFor scrolling text over images, you would need a background buffer the size of the scrolling rectangle, in native depth
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07:22:26amiconnAn extra 1bpp buffer for the text is superfluous
07:23:05webguest47hey wen i put videos on my sansa the sound is before the video.
07:23:19webguest47is that normal?
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07:25:12JdGordonthe framebuffer size is length X width X depth / 8 isnt it?
07:25:43amiconnNot exactly
07:26:04webguest47? anyone know
07:26:20jhMikeSamiconn: for ticking reduction, what sort of high cpu frequency framerate loss on the remote do you think would be acceptable _without_ adding the remote ticking option? It seems the hot spot is around 75-80 fps down from 93.5.
07:26:24jhMikeSx5 btw
07:26:46midgey webguest47: yes thats normal, there is no audio syncing yet
07:26:52amiconnFor depth < 8 it depends on the pixel packing. The respective direction (width or height) has to be padded
07:27:15webguest47dam thats bad
07:27:29Lloreanwebguest47: Well, the mpeg player is not finished yet.
07:27:36LloreanAnd nobody's working on it, this very moment.
07:28:43webguest47k thanks
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07:30:39OsamaIs there a way to set rockbox as your secondary firmware, so when you restart then lock it loads rockbox, and normally loads the original firmware?
07:31:57amiconnjhMikeS: I wouldn't want to sacrifice framerate on the x5 remote without having an option
07:32:35amiconnIn order to avoid noticeable sluggishness, it seems we need framerates of 60fps or higher
07:32:58amiconnThat's what I settled for on the iriver remotes with ticking reduction enabled
07:33:36JdGordonwould adding a 2nd frame buffer kill drawing speed on the large screen targets?
07:33:48*amiconn started a runtime test on M5L. Results tomoorow evening or so....
07:34:45amiconnJdGordon: Drawing speed on the large colour screen targets is already quite slow
07:35:18jhMikeS75-80 is completely silent. I don't need any suppression and low cpu
07:35:22jhMikeSat lot cpu
07:35:49jhMikeSAt 45Mhz there's no noise at all so I would even touch that
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07:36:10jhMikeSBut Around 75-80 fps at 124MHz, the noise is completely gone.
07:36:15*Slasheri wonders why so many remotes are badly designed and shielded
07:37:40amiconnjhMikeS: Completely gone, or just below hearing threshold on your X5?
07:37:50amiconnI think this needs testingon more than one unit
07:37:51jhMikeSI can't pick it out even when paused
07:38:17jhMikeSIt's very quiet
07:38:24amiconnO good ticking test is scrolling a list without playing music
07:38:50jhMikeSthat's what I did. not to mention lower volume levels have it worse, even when paused.
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07:42:33amiconnMy remote does tick at 45 and 124MHz
07:42:59JdGordonamiconn: any idea if the slow drawing is copying to the lcd and not copying data around in ram?
07:43:04_AmblinWell when you enable limit FPS and skip frames in mpeg player, the video and sound stay in sync but its choppy, but when you disable those two options the video is smooth.
07:43:12jhMikeShmmm...obvious some variation there
07:43:16_AmblinNot complaining, just trying to confirm this is normal.
07:43:38amiconnjhMikeS: Yes, that's why I said it needs testing on more than one unit
07:44:00amiconnIt's the same with the iriver remotes (where it seems to be bad grounding in the main unit, btw)
07:44:24Llorean_Amblin: Fairly normal yes.
07:44:29amiconnThe iriver remotes also had 2 sources of ticking, observed on a number of H300s
07:44:34_AmblinThank you.
07:44:34jhMikeSAnother person I talked to had the same experience as I
07:45:13amiconnOne is the data and/or clock line, observed on many irivers and unavoidable, only reducable by slowing down the updates
07:46:03jhMikeSMy iRiver doesn't tick one bit
07:46:15amiconnThe other was the chip select line, where the effect was only observed on H300. Now the driver silences chip select by delaying deactivation by 100ms
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07:47:22jhMikeSI remember checking out the x5 awhile back when talking about this and CS delay had no effect but in combination, I don't know yet.
07:51:43amiconnI can't even hear a difference in the ticking between 45 and 124MHz
07:52:17amiconnAt 11MHz it's gone, but the scrolling is incredibly slow with the remote plugged
07:52:39amiconnMaybe it's the cs on my unit
07:53:11amiconnSilencing /cs comes at no speed penalty, so maybe I should try that
07:53:19_AmblinCall me a giant noob, but could I ask what ADC stands for?
07:53:28jhMikeSGuess I can put up a patch. I suppose a setting could be Off,Fast,Slow+Fast or something _if needed_
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07:53:52jhMikeSIf CS kills it at low speed, then all the better
07:54:23amiconnYou say your iriver is completely silent... that's why there is a setting for ticking reduction
07:54:38amiconnWhen it's silent, why waste cpu time?
07:55:12amiconnMy H340 is completely silent since CS was silenced, my H180 is not
07:55:16jhMikeSyup...I mean, if I could silence it without losing FPS, then I wouldn't need the option...but doesn't look feasible
07:55:49amiconnI tried a lot of things when experimenting with ticking reduction on iriver.
07:57:22jhMikeSIt seems not flipping the lines simultaneously actually worsens it too.
07:57:26amiconnFor some reason stretiching all bits was less efficient than only putting a (longer) delay between bytes
07:58:11amiconnI also tried to flip the lines separately when the level change was in the same direction, and at once when they changed in opposite directions
07:58:19jhMikeSIf this means anything: putting a delay between RS_LO and CS_LO also helps
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07:58:42amiconnDidn't help.... only the character of the noise changed a bit
07:58:42JdGordonhmm... adding a second buffer halves the framerate... so its not the copying to the lcd that is the slow part (on the h300 anyway)
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07:59:53jhMikeSsimilarly, one important thing seems to be to keep the clock pulses evenly spaced
08:01:00jhMikeSguess iRiver's are different beast in this regard
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08:06:43jhMikeSamiconn: did you ever try to find out if the DS2411 driver actually reads anything other than just zeros? if it does it could just have a different sn chip type :\
08:07:19amiconnSilencing CS doesn't help a bit on my X5
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08:08:13amiconnMy X5 does show a serial number
08:09:20jhMikeSleast that works. what about the m5? I'm just saying that if it reads anything other than zeros on the port, maybe there's a chip with a different family code or something.
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08:10:15amiconnLooks like there is no serial number chip in the M5
08:11:35amiconnDid you start a poll for serial numbers?
08:12:01jhMikeSWas kind of hoping for news on the M5 so I could just include it or not.
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08:14:58 Quit Shaid (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) it's officially out then?
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08:15:20amiconnI think so
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08:39:28aliaskhey there
08:39:44mitch04can anyone tell me if everyone is here on porting the creative zen vision m
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08:40:20aliaskmitch04: I don't think anybody has done any real work just yet
08:41:26mitch04oh k because on the forms on rockbox
08:41:36mitch04says ppl r working on it now
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08:45:44LinusNSlasheri: your button_boost hack seems to make the h300 bootloader unstable on some devices
08:45:56LinusNdon't know why yet
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08:51:50jhMikeShmmm...the CS delay does get a noticeable amount out _after_ suppressing emi through delaying the clock and data a little
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08:52:14SlasheriLinusN: interesting. Anyway, i am going to remove it soon from other players than ipods
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08:52:29Nackonany development in Sony NW-HD5?
08:52:46aliaskHas anybody got one?
08:52:48LinusNNackon: nope, you can be the first :-)
08:52:56*pondlife has fat fingers and can't even get the back cover off his H340 :(
08:53:22LinusNpondlife: found a new uda1380 yet?
08:53:31Nackonpondlife: be careful the snap-on thingies on that thing are *VERY* fragile
08:53:36*jhMikeS can barely pick out any tick in a silent room away from all the comp fans
08:53:45pondlifeLinusN: Not for certain - back-ordered one from RS components
08:53:46NackonI broke like 2 or 3 while trying to open it
08:53:54LinusNtaking the h300 apart is tricky indeed
08:54:00Nackonnow it opens and closes easily though :)
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08:54:15pondlifeBut I want to get a DAP, so if I break it, more excuse to buy an X5
08:54:28*LinusN rescued a near-bricked h300 last week - good to have a bdm emulator
08:54:28pondlifeHey, it's not going to heal itself, is it?
08:54:29NackonI heard the NW-HD5 has a very good sound quality
08:54:52spiorfhi, ipodpatcher tells me "no ipod found" while my nano 1.3 is connected
08:55:09spiorflsusb shows Bus 001 Device 003: ID 05ac:120a Apple Computer, Inc.
08:56:43jhMikeSI think the remaining barely audible noise is from other's no longer related to scrolling :\
08:56:56Nackonso I was thinking of buying one, but then it's got this SS software on it, "protecting" the mp3s
08:57:13*amiconn found taking apart the H300 pretty straightforward
08:57:25amiconnCertainly easier than the M5/X5
08:57:40Nackonwell, 2nd time around I'm sure it would be much easier for me
08:57:59Nackonbut the 1st time I didn't know what to expect so it didn't go as smooth
08:58:02pondlifeI need something flat enough to get between the front/back covers...
08:58:02amiconnThere's a nice description on misticriver
08:58:10Nackonuse a guitar pic
08:58:16pondlifeGood idea
08:58:38Nackonit has a perfect shape, as u push it in it opens it even wider
08:58:41jhMikeSor even a guitar pick :P
08:58:56LinusNjhMikeS: :-)
08:59:13Nackonno a jpg file of a guitar will do, just put it next to the player and it'll open itself...
08:59:30 Join petur [0] (i=d4efd6a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
08:59:54_AmblinMan you guys are really devoted..
09:00:31 Quit petur (Client Quit)
09:01:11Nackonhas there been a comparison against several mp3 players, comparing their sound quality? (and I mean a good objective one)
09:01:13pondlifeHmm, I'm trying to open it behind the hold switch/mic, right?
09:01:25 Join petur [0] (i=d4efd6a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
09:01:41Nackonare u trying to open back cover or front?
09:01:54pondlifeBack I think. There's no gap at all.
09:02:05Nackonfor the back cover...
09:02:12pondlifeWhichever is best for getting to the UDA1380!
09:02:16Nackonthe sides don't hold anything (I found out the hard way)
09:02:17pondlifeProbably front
09:02:48Nackonno opening back is best for geting inside to do anything, either try to open from the top or bottom
09:03:18safetydanNackon, there was this comparing Rockbox on iPod to Apple OS
09:03:32peturpondlife: try to find a battery/hdd replacement guide on MR
09:03:57Nackonwell iPod's sound sucks even on Rockbox, I know I tried :)
09:03:59pondlifepetur: I started with that. -
09:04:04 Join Wiwie [0] (
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09:04:24pondlifeAlso the video on Google which makes this bit look very easy!
09:04:34peturpondlife: that's the one I used too ;)
09:04:36pondlife(I guess that case has been taken apart before)
09:04:49pondlifeBut there's no gap to put a fingernail or a thin pick in anywhere
09:05:01peturfor the back?
09:05:23Nackonas long as u keep in mind that there's *nothing* holding the back cover to its case from the *sides* u should be alright
09:05:40NackonI started from the sides and was like c'mon wtf?? hehe
09:06:06peturthe back is attached with the top/bottom screws so if those are gone there's not much holding it except friction
09:06:17Nackonno no
09:06:17pondlifeI'm starting at the bottom
09:06:21Nackonthere *is*
09:06:43Nackonthe *top* and *bottom* have these little things that snap on
09:07:02pondlifeExplain.. ?
09:07:04jhMikeSpetur: It seems the recording bug reports are slowly falling off the recording forum list as they age? :)
09:07:25amiconnpondlife: Looks like it's the same description I used as well. After removing the screws taking away the back cover involved no forcing for me
09:07:54peturjhMikeS: I've done 7 or 8 now and it's rock solid :)
09:07:57pondlifeHmm, mine is stuck. Maybe they started using glue at some point ;)
09:08:11Nackonno glue there
09:08:17pondlifeI see 5 screws on the desk in front of me...
09:08:28Nackonlemme find a good pic...
09:08:44peturpondlife: mine was stuck too I thought but it was just a bit of friction
09:09:08peturtry to put a knife inbetween, then a fingernail,...
09:09:42jhMikeSpetur: be sure to mention that so others can be confident with it now and don't feel they have to use the old version for stability...whenever you feel it is a good thing
09:10:05pondlifeOK, I'm in!!
09:10:13pondlifeAnd there is a bit of glue
09:10:21 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
09:10:31pondlifeOr is that a tamper seal?
09:10:51NackonI think it's a little piece of tape
09:11:27peturjhMikeS: I've already convinced those at taperssection, they refused new code since august, now they start thinking about upgrading
09:12:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
09:13:47jhMikeSWell, I don't know if they'll only listen until you have like 100 or 200 glitch-free takes or something :)
09:14:14 Quit GodEater_ ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
09:14:58peturjhMikeS: worse, they start listening to me :p
09:15:37pondlifeNackon, petur, amiconn: Thanks guys, it just takes a bit of confidence that I'm not breaking it!
09:15:47jhMikeSpetur: but before it was pretty much every time iirc
09:16:03Nackonnp mate, what're you opening it for btw?
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09:17:54pondlifeUDA1380 died
09:18:39pondlifeNot sure I'll be able to get a replacement, but also wanted to see how tricky the soldering would be.
09:19:20Nackonu got the H320 model?
09:20:10jhMikeSRockbox should have a spare parts department online
09:20:18pondlifeOn the wiki, yes
09:20:27 Join GodEater_ [0] (i=c2cbc95c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
09:20:41pondlifeI've ordered one from RS but will pop a request on the wiki/ML if no joy
09:23:26pondlifeA component supplier. Not cheap, but normally reliable.
09:24:53amiconnpondlife: Pin spacing is 0.65mm
09:25:26NackonI'd never mess around with such tiny soldering
09:28:29pondlifeWoah, that thing is tiny. And very close to other components. I fear kill, not cure, here ;)
09:28:44jhMikeSpondlife: might have missed if you said but how do you know it's the UDA1380 that's at fault?
09:28:55peturI thought you said you knew people with soldering skills?
09:29:05pondlifeSymptoms very similar to 3 other reports
09:29:14pondlifeAnd amiconn said so !!
09:30:15LinusNpondlife: it shouldn't be too hard with the right equipment and skill
09:30:27pondlifeSymptoms are: (1) No sound on right-channel (phones/line out) (2) Very very low sound level on left channel (phones/line) (3) running slowly
09:31:15pondlifeI won't be doing the soldering as I know I have no clue. Or equipment. I just need to find a friend or volunteer who can.
09:31:16LinusNpondlife: can you recally any incident before that? like running hot when charging?
09:31:28pondlifeNo, but I did get sparks from my USB cable!
09:31:58pondlifeSeems that when my AC adapter is connected, the USB "ground" is not at ground
09:32:07LinusNpondlife: it is possible that one of the decoupling capacitors is damaged
09:32:27LinusNhow is the battery life?
09:32:34pondlife16 hours
09:32:38LinusNeven after the accident?
09:32:56pondlifeNo idea, I don't know if there was an accident.
09:33:10pondlifeI noticed the USB/AC issue months ago and it never caused a problem then.
09:33:33pondlifeBut yesterday I left it in the cradle with both connected for some time, which is a first.
09:33:34LinusNwell, i guess we might have to check the caps before replacing the uda
09:34:16pondlifeThis is getting beyond me now. Maybe it's just time to order an Iaudio and sell my Iriver kit on eBay?
09:34:59 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
09:35:25*jhMikeS isn't sure where to get joystick switches or batteries for those though, but they do sound nice
09:39:30jhMikeSI do wonder if a couple of booboo incidents that caused the pcf to do a thermal shutdown could have cause the problems with the battery
09:42:25 Quit GodEater_ ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
09:43:05pondlifeThanks again all, bye
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09:44:23LinusNjhMikeS: do you have any idea what this could be?
09:44:35LinusNcould be a codec_swap() problem
09:46:10jhMikeSwhen isn't there? but not off the top of my head and I don't have any AAC files or .talk clip lying around so it lools like I'd better dig something up
09:47:51jhMikeS...and some of my subscriptions are messed up again as I seem to not be getting the FS reports or most of the other stuff
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09:54:45LinusNjhMikeS: you don't even have to use .talk clips - it happens with the regular voice file too
09:56:06jhMikeSso just play anything and follow the recipe?
09:56:35LinusNi think the "Create playlist" option in the main menu is slightly confusing - it isn't obvious that it creates it in the current position in the file browser
09:56:58LinusNjhMikeS: yes, play an aac file and return to the main menu with voice enabled
09:57:20LinusNbut it will only happen if you play it manually, not if you resume
09:57:31LinusNfor some reason
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09:59:29jhMikeSI don't have any AAC files but just doing an mp3 and listening to how the voice is working all choppy in the main menu seems odd.
10:00:04jhMikeSleaving the main menu and going to a submenu it behaves ok
10:00:24 Nick [Sur`DataGho is now known as DataGhost (
10:01:42jhMikeSFiles, Now Playing and Settings just don't voice right at all, just a little drop in volume and then no clip is played
10:03:06jhMikeSIf I hover on those items, playback just comes to a halt after a couple seconds until I hover on an item that voices ok
10:04:04*markun is watching quite a nice presentation about how to (and not to) manage open source projects:
10:04:48markunbrings back some memories of Dongs also :)
10:06:42LinusNjhMikeS: possibly a buffering issue as well then...?
10:06:56 Quit w1ll14m ()
10:07:11LinusNjhMikeS: i can imagine that the voice codec is not swapped in at all
10:08:27jhMikeSmight not be...something just sticks the audio from proceeding
10:10:00jhMikeSwhy it would only be some items is kind of playing/resume playback is obviously a special item but what's unique if anything about the other two?
10:10:51jhMikeShaha...happens on the system menu too on Running Time
10:11:48LinusNjhMikeS: i think it might be the length of the clip, or perhaps the position in memory
10:12:38jhMikeSgot a lock when returning to the WPS though while on one of 'em
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10:14:17jhMikeSgot a lock just moving around in the menu too, hrm...from Files to Database...
10:14:27jhMikeSno sound playing either
10:15:35jhMikeSguess I have idea where to start looking
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10:18:37*LinusN goes to fill a cup with black goo
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10:33:45linuxstbAnyone know what the "cutit.c" file (on Bagder's Sansa website) expects as input?
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10:44:42*jhMikeS actually up there meant to say it could be a buffering issue
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10:48:23JdGordonanyone know rouphly how long post should take from europe to australia?
10:48:29amiconnjhMikeS: Maybe swcodec voice doesn't handle empty voice clips properly?
10:48:50jhMikeSare there?
10:50:39amiconnSure, e.g. if you use an older voice file. Those clips are of length 0
10:51:24jhMikeSI never observed an issue using an old voice file. Right now I have a quite new one though.
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10:58:45JdGordonLinusN: re it cant save as the same name as what?
10:58:59JdGordonyou mean it wont overwrite files?
10:59:59jhMikeSI'm gonna do some making sure anything I changed goofing with the buffer isn't the reason...bugs in my own stuff are easier to find if I know they're there :)
11:00:45LinusNJdGordon: it can't save the playlist it is currently viewing
11:01:27LinusNbecause saving it means that it must read from it at the same time
11:02:23jhMikeSwe'll...a 2007-03-10 build doesn't do it
11:02:35*jhMikeS gets out the pain stick
11:02:39JdGordonit doesnt read the whole playlist into memory first?
11:02:52safetydanJdGordon, depending how it was sent it could take up to three months
11:03:20*JdGordon hopes not :p
11:03:46aliaskJdGordon: Waiting for the sansa?
11:04:41jhMikeSthe build for the 11th does...htm
11:06:32 Quit cynicalliberal ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
11:08:50LinusNJdGordon: no, it doesn't have the entire list in memory
11:08:51 Join Rob2222 [0] (
11:09:43*jhMikeS finds out the pain stick will be needed
11:10:27linuxstbSlasheri: Does your button_boost() commit actually do anything at the moment on ipods? I thought the button driver didn't queue scroll events?
11:10:58jhMikeS...given the utter stupidity of what I did
11:11:34jhMikeSwhen you see the diff you can just stone me in the public square :<
11:12:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:15:46 Quit petur ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
11:15:56amiconnImho the button code shouldn't do the boost.... probably the ui should if it needs to start dropping frames. And it shouldn't unboost too early
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11:19:42jhMikeSok...try all that voice stuff out now
11:20:30linuxstbamiconn: I agree - it's a UI problem, not a button problem.
11:23:38LinusNamiconn: i agree
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11:30:00*jhMikeS sees he's going to just have to add the backlight_on_filtered function and tempt it's use in the iPod button driver
11:30:58jhMikeSCaption Backlight needs it anyway
11:36:06jhMikeSThe iPod button driver seems to call backligh_on without any filtering...before checking the queue status even. Caption Backlight floods the queue with backlight on messages when it's within the on time it's using.
11:36:31jhMikeSI had experienced audio skips in the past with that option enabled.
11:37:50amiconnStrange... I never experienced any problems like this
11:38:54jhMikeSIt came up when adding the hold switch options. Filtering the calls stopped the problems. x5 was not exactly the swiftest player at the time since it didn't yet have the optimized i2c driver.
11:44:22 Quit Shaid ("I will see you, in the end. And I will laugh at your pain...")
11:44:27amiconnI think that the backlight driver should track status on any target where backlight isn't plain gpio
11:49:04jhMikeSadding an itty bitty function with a delta in ticks does nicely for it...keeps the queue_posts and such to a reasonable amount
11:49:48LinusNjhMikeS: your fix solves FS #6803 nicely!
11:50:17jhMikeS:) or should you just say my mistake caused it? :P
11:52:00jhMikeSLinusN: obviously you have a faster task close finger than I :)
11:52:19LinusNtrigger happy
11:52:58LinusNi feel sorry for those blind folks nowadays, lots of voice related issues currently :-)
11:54:53 Join Llorean [0] (n=Llorean@rockbox/administrator/Llorean)
11:58:00jhMikeShrm...I apoligized for that one in the forums. Seems the simpler things are to do, the worse the mistakes. :P
11:59:21*safetydan discovers that none of the Speex ARM asm routines are being used...
12:00:57LloreanSo, wait, Speex being relatively decent on iPod is _without_ optimizations?
12:01:16safetydanLlorean, looks that way
12:01:43Llorean Hm, if any of the ARM targets other than Gigabeat had the potential for good battery life right now, that would excite me.
12:01:53*Llorean wonders how the iFP-7xx's battery life is.
12:02:01*Llorean wonders if Speex is one of the codecs on it that work.
12:02:06JdGordondoes rb actually run on the ifp yet?
12:02:14LloreanJdGordon: In a very limited manner, if I understand.
12:02:32markunwith the WMA bootloader hack, right?
12:02:53LloreanThe WMA bootloader hack is the main reason I haven't tried it out on mine yet.
12:03:53LloreanI've had an iFP since about forever, since I found a very cheap waterproof case for it, but the WMA bootloader required I used a very specific firmware version with limited Original Firmware functionality.
12:04:12LloreanThe UMS firmware for the device is intentionally crippled, it seems.
12:05:29safetydanhrrm... are iPod ARM's closer to ARM4 or ARM5E?
12:05:47daurnimatorhi al
12:05:51amiconnarm720tdmi is arm v4
12:06:19markunsafetydan: same for the ARM in the Gigabeat (920t)
12:06:51safetydanSpeex has ARM4 specific asm routines so now I just need to get them enabled in the build
12:07:08markunsafetydan: can you check the difference in boost?
12:07:24safetydanmarkun, nope, I only have a h120
12:07:57*markun would like a 'top' like debug screen as the Gigabeat never boosts
12:08:21markunhi daurnimator
12:08:48markundaurnimator: I hope the Creative Vision:M guys will be able to do a port this time
12:09:02daurnimatoryou got more people interested/
12:09:13markunwill open the door for a lot more players
12:09:26*daurnimator knocks on JdGordon ;)
12:09:42markunsafetydan: those DM320 players are ARM v5 iirc
12:09:44daurnimatori'm nearly onto buying a new player
12:09:54markunwhich one will it be?
12:10:07markunZune? ;)
12:10:11*JdGordon opens door into daurnimator's face.. :D
12:10:41daurnimatorthey don't sell zune in australia ;)
12:10:43markunJdGordon: I had a very strange mental image when I read that the first time :)
12:11:01safetydanthis arm4 speex stuff doesn't compile :(
12:11:12safetydanwell, it compiles but the number of warnings is telling me it's not going to work
12:11:26jhMikeShrm...still an issue there...but now only after playing an ogg...this is just ridiculous
12:11:31daurnimatori'm thinking something small
12:11:38JdGordonthe clix?
12:11:56JdGordonthats about as small as they come in a decent storage capacity
12:12:01daurnimatorwhats the smallest player with a 1.8" hdd?
12:12:09JdGordonipods i guess?>
12:12:15daurnimatorew :(
12:12:19LloreanOr ZVM
12:12:26LloreanThe new slimmer ones they just announced.
12:12:29daurnimatoraren't zens massive?
12:12:32JdGordonyou can buy a refurbished ipod mini from apple pretty cheap
12:12:36daurnimatorthey aren't out yet though ;)
12:12:45LloreanThey probably will be in a week or two.
12:13:04LloreanJdGordon: ipod Mini is the 1" microdrive though, not the 1.85", right?
12:14:21 Quit safetydan ("Ex-Chat")
12:15:08JdGordonah, yeah
12:15:17*JdGordon just became an uncle!
12:15:29LloreanAnyone know anything about Bass control on the H120?
12:15:46LinusNwhat do you want to know?
12:15:53Llorean and seem to coincide, though it looks like they might have identified the problem wrong.
12:16:42LloreanThe forum one suggested to me someone just hadn't been paying attention since quite some time ago, but a second person reporting it at the bug tracker adds a little weight to it in my mind.
12:19:16LinusNthe source code sure looks like it attempts to avoid distortion
12:19:33bluebrotherLlorean: did you notice the sansa installation instructions I added to the manual? I hope I didn't add wrong information
12:19:49LinusNbut only with the regular bass/treble controls, not if you use the equalizer
12:19:56aliaskI just realised I posted over 5mb to the rockbox-dev mailing list, that's probably not going to be approved is it?
12:20:08LinusNaliask: no
12:20:27aliaskOk, I'll forward it to him privately then.
12:20:33preglowthe treble/bass controls will prescale as far as possible to avoid distortion
12:20:43pregloweq has to be manually prescaled
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12:21:27Lloreanbluebrother: Give me about 3 minutes and I'll go look at it.
12:23:18LloreanLinusN: Well, maybe if we can drag more information out of either of these reporters.
12:23:27 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
12:23:31bluebrotherLlorean: np, it's just as you asked for it yesterday ;-)
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12:24:33Lloreanbluebrother: It looks good to me. If I followed those instructions, it would get me Rockbox on my Sansa.
12:24:35jhMikeShmmm...the problem cause by vorbis files seems unrelated
12:24:59 Quit barrywardell ()
12:25:07preglowLlorean: are you sure these people aren't talking about the age-old behaviour where volume was actually lowered when using bass/treble controls?
12:25:25Lloreanpreglow: I actually brought that up in the forum thread. I'm not certain they aren't.
12:25:35Lloreanpreglow: If they are though, they've updated from truly ancient builds. :)
12:26:36LinusNit sure looks like the prescaling doesn't work
12:26:43jhMikeSpreglow: any idea what in vorbis could be causing problems with voice? it's not related to my pointer goof in any way for that.
12:27:30preglowLinusN: i did do some hacking around with that code about a week or so back
12:27:41preglowLinusN: when fixing the lack of prescaler for some wm codecs
12:28:02linuxstbLlorean: Do you have any idea what the "cutit.c" program is expecting as input? It's referred to in the wiki version of the Sansa install instructions as a way to extract the .mi4 of the original firmware from a Sansa.'s probably related somehow to the change...I just know it...i
12:28:30preglowjhMikeS: i have no idea, no
12:28:59Lloreanlinuxstb: I don't know what it expects as input, but I think it's supposed to do a similar job to iPodPatcher -rf, so I imagine it's some reference to the player's location.
12:29:02jhMikeSI see make zip is now giving us all kinds of fancy info we already know :P
12:29:26Lloreanlinuxstb: Oh, wait, it expects a file?
12:29:39Lloreanlinuxstb: Maybe an image of the hidden partition on the player, then.
12:29:46LloreanI've never seen the program before, so I'm kinda guessing.
12:29:47preglowLinusN: at least my current h120 build works fine
12:30:02preglowmy rockbox tree got wiped yesterday so can't check it out in a while
12:30:03LinusNmaybe i expect too much from the prescaler
12:31:38LinusNwow, it raises the volume as i raise the bass (!)
12:31:43jhMikeSpreglow: if I kill emac stalls in the resampler doing channels separately it's maybe perhaps worth .25% likes the tiny loops. that's bits hardly worth the size of separate mono/stereo resamplers
12:32:29preglowyeah, agree
12:32:32LloreanLinusN: That's what the bug report describes.
12:33:14LloreanLinusN: I thought the decision a bit over a year ago was that Bass/Treble shouldn't affect volume at all, allowing the user to clip if they wanted, but ensuring they had full control of their player. (Though I assume volume _raising_ with it is a bug)
12:33:27*Llorean foods.
12:34:56preglowinstaller crashed
12:35:04preglowhow i hate computers
12:37:41 Quit fejfighter ()
12:39:41JdGordonrecoding menu converted... anyone willing to try out a patch before commit?
12:39:54linuxstbLlorean: Any idea how the hidden partition is hidden? Do you need to enter one of the special USB modes?
12:40:21linuxstb(I'm trying to think of ways to streamline the Sansa install process - it seems too complex atm)
12:41:23JdGordonthese are fat partitions?
12:41:39Lloreanlinuxstb: You'd have to ask Bagder.
12:41:52linuxstbLlorean: OK
12:41:57LloreanI don't remember, I think I only ever saw it mentioned once, but can't remember where
12:41:59JdGordondoesnt the parition table have a flag or something to hide partitions?
12:42:23Lloreanlinuxstb: But I believe you can write our bootloader to that partition just like on iPods.
12:43:36*linuxstb sees a sansapatcher in his future
12:45:12Lloreanlinuxstb: I mean, the big difficulty right now is getting the original firmware image, and decrypting it to prepare for dual boot.
12:45:36LloreanThe worst thing about the Sansas right now is that if you don't do the dual boot preparations, you have absolutely no usable USB mode without first uninstalling Rockbox.
12:50:22 Quit kaaloo ("Leaving.")
12:51:10daurnimatordoes rockbox support matroska?
12:51:58LloreanRockbox tends toward the 'native' container / file type for any given format.
12:53:12JdGordonwhats matroska?
12:53:31aliaskVideo format
12:53:36aliask*Container format
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12:54:40jhMikeSooh...spotted more buffer setup stuff...argh
12:55:52LinusNok, the prescaler bug was introduced in the march 11 daily build
12:56:34jhMikeSthe 11th was a bad day
12:56:58 Quit aliask ("g'night all")
12:58:26jhMikeSbut it's looking like I can put it behind me now :)
12:59:39markunWhere's safetydan..
12:59:58markunI'm fixing speex so it will use the ARM opts, but I hope I'm not duplicating his work
13:02:24daurnimatoranyone an EAC expert?
13:05:22JdGordonholy crap! I wasnt expeting such a big delta with that commit
13:05:37JdGordonthe green table is pretty surprising also :p
13:06:04markunok, I enabled ARM opts for speex, but I get a lot of "ltp_arm4.h:180: warning: matching constraint does not allow a register"
13:06:37markunpreglow, jhMikeS: could you take a look at my patch?
13:06:46markunI have no clue how to fix such a warning
13:07:00markunIt's made from inside the libspeex dir
13:08:13markunJdGordon: pretty nice code decrease!
13:08:14 Quit perldiver (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
13:09:23*JdGordon was actually expecting red deltas :p
13:09:32jhMikeSmarkun: sure, gimma a sec...I'm almost done closing the chapter on the recent voice trouble
13:11:23amiconnmarkun: These asm constraints are looking unnecessarily complex
13:11:24jhMikeSpreglow: is there any chance any wrapping is happening in the codecs themselves? I do get artifacts in mp3 and ogg that sound like it...just a little
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13:12:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:12:33amiconnIn & out being the same C variable can be specified by just the output block (using + instead of = iirc)
13:13:02preglowjhMikeS: i guess there's always a chance, but if so, it should be fixed
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13:13:11preglowwould also mean somehow messed up badly
13:15:03jhMikeSnot sure...but ya know...vorbis always sounded a bit strange to me anyway and mostly it comes from there
13:16:03 Quit amigan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
13:16:48jhMikeSok, checking the patch now
13:22:58*preglow out
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13:25:22jhMikeSgetting no rule to make target on config_speex.h
13:30:34jhMikeSI don't even see a config-speex.h in the tree
13:30:47jhMikeSNor in the patch
13:33:23amiconnThere is a config.h in libspeex
13:33:50amiconnLooks like the importer didn't pay attention; this needs to be renamed as it collides with main config.h
13:36:30jhMikeSmuch better
13:36:59jhMikeSto a it wants config.h else where
13:37:29jhMikeSI think that's just a make clean thing though
13:37:49jhMikeSsince it was in a .o file
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13:38:45linuxstbCouldn't that also be solved with ensuring the libspeex directory is first in the include path? The public includes don't seem to need config.h
13:38:56linuxstbi.e. keeping the changes to libspeex as minimal as possible.
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13:52:53yanfengmarkun: here?
13:54:26yanfengmarkun: anyway: could you reproduce the error from There is a clarification there as to how to get it.
13:54:29LinusNjhMikeS: there?
13:54:35jhMikeSLinusN: yes
13:54:49LinusNit looks like you are to blame for the prescaler bug too :-/
13:55:18LinusNrevision 12714
13:55:27LinusN"Reenable aynchronous audio init stage."
13:55:35jhMikeS:( what happened to that? I'm having all the luck.
13:55:37LinusNthat's where the prescaler starts acting out
13:55:49 Quit perplexity (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:59:56jhMikeSprobably some dependency on having audio initialized by the time dsp_callback is called
14:00:39jhMikeSbut it only showed up on reeabling the aync part?
14:01:28jhMikeSreenabling the async part even
14:01:50LinusNyes, i compiled 12713 and it was ok
14:02:52jhMikeSand when did I change the audio init to single stage? It already had late init by then.
14:03:32LinusN11 Mar 05:04
14:03:37jhMikeSwas just going there
14:04:50amiconnIriver prescales in hardware
14:05:01amiconn(for the tone controls)
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14:05:09Nuru666Hi 2 all
14:05:28Nuru666hey, help me please
14:05:46LinusNNuru666: we will help you when you ask your question
14:05:49Nuru666i have ipod nano an'd i downloaded today's daily build
14:06:13*LinusN prepares to write "have you installed the latest bootloader?"
14:06:16Nuru666now, when i'l trying to play a song i got a message something like: Data abort
14:06:26LinusNhave you installed the latest bootloader?
14:06:40LinusNthen do so, it must be updated
14:06:51Nuru666) how can i do it?
14:07:16Nuru666upload rockbox.ipod to ipod root?
14:07:19jhMikeS revision 12692, Fri Mar 9 09:27:13 2007 UTC was when the audio_init was made late though
14:07:29LinusNNuru666: it's in the manual
14:07:40bluebrotherit's the ipodpatcher step
14:09:17LloreanNuru666: Just do the section 2.2.2 in the manual
14:11:13Nuru666deam it, i can't do it at work (
14:11:16jhMikeShmmm...easy checker on that anyway
14:11:26Nuru666i don't have administrator rights
14:11:40Nuru666ok, thanks )
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14:13:01Nuru666And what i will do if this solution will not work?
14:13:11bluebrotherit will work
14:13:37Nuru666i just instaled oldiest version and got the same error (
14:13:55bluebrotheryou need an old version that is old enough
14:14:28JdGordonanyone know what the name for those integrated computers in a box are called? (smaller than shuttle pcs.. everything is on one board) ?
14:14:41bluebrotherwhich is more than 1 month iirc.
14:14:57bluebrotherJdGordon: MiniITX?
14:15:04LloreanJdGordon: You referring to the gumstix?
14:16:02JdGordonumm... something between the 2
14:16:12LinusNjhMikeS: any clue? it is definitely the 12714 commit that does it
14:17:23markunyanfeng: I'm here now
14:17:25bluebrotherNuru666: I was wrong, dual core support got committed on 4th march. Try a build that is older
14:17:37peturJdGordon: umpc?
14:18:04bluebrotherMac Mini? ;-)
14:18:06jhMikeSwell, I just threw the init back to what it was before that from a playback.c pov and no change
14:18:16JdGordonmac mini owuldnt last very long in a rally car :p
14:18:35JdGordonalthough.. thats not really such a bad idea
14:18:43bluebrotherah, so you're looking for some IPC?
14:20:54bluebrotherJdGordon: something like this?
14:21:45JdGordonexcept the mac mini idea might just work and be cheaper
14:22:05Nuru666bluebrother ))) And i tried 5th march version )
14:22:06markunjhMikeS: you are right, I forgot to include config-speex.h in the patch..
14:22:32LinusNjhMikeS: moving audiohw_init() back to after spdif_init() in pcm-coldfire.c cures it
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14:22:57markunlinuxstb: so you don't like renaming config.h to config-speex.h? (like it's done in Tremor for example)
14:23:38Nuru666bluebrother and if i'l update bootloader wil rockbox work on my ipod correctly?
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14:23:55LinusNjhMikeS: looks awfully wrong though...
14:24:06jhMikeSwhat's that?
14:24:35linuxstbmarkun: I just like not changing imported libraries if it can be avoided. But thinking about it, maybe it can't be avoided - we need to #include the Rockbox config.h to determine the CPU type...
14:25:35LinusNi mean, it resets the uda1380 registers after calling audio_set_source()
14:26:09jhMikeSyeah, that's why I moved it u
14:26:14bluebrotherNuru666: with support for dual core you need an updated bootloader. Don't know if the new bootloader will work with an old build, but it might.
14:26:16 Quit Nuru666 ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
14:26:28bluebrotheroh, he left. Oh my.
14:26:56linuxstbmarkun: It's been suggested that the bootsplash functionality in the Gigabeat bootloader is removed and replaced by "silent booting" (i.e. the bootloader doesn't touch the LCD unless it needs to display an error message, or the user has pressed a magic button). This has been implemented on the ipod, sansa and H10 bootloaders so far...
14:26:58LinusNjhMikeS: something is rotten in the state of denmark...
14:27:33jhMikeSjust pop spdif_init above it instead? :\
14:27:35Lloreanbluebrother: The new bootloader should work fine with an older build, many people were using Dual Core capable bootloaders for quite some time before the dual core code went into SVN.
14:27:38jhMikeSas a test
14:27:48Lloreanbluebrother: Basically, any of the ones with a black background on the bootloader were dual core safe.
14:29:50jhMikeSwell, that doesn't do squate and neither should it
14:30:39*LinusN thinks he has a clue
14:31:13jhMikeSyes? I've got my eye on a the following functions
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14:32:25LloreanB4gder: I'm sure we have enough manpower around to crack 160 bit DSA if we just scrounge enough. :-P
14:32:34LinusNjh i think the mix mode is wrong
14:32:37linuxstbB4gder: Can you explain how the cutit.c tool is used? What input is it expecting?
14:33:00B4gderuhm, I need to check...
14:33:34B4gderlinuxstb: it takes a dump of the "hidden" partition
14:33:38B4gderand extracts the mi4 file from it
14:33:44linuxstbHow is it hidden?
14:33:49LinusNjhMikeS: i think the mix mode is wrong
14:34:00linuxstbI mean can it be accessed via raw disk i/o in normal USB mode?
14:34:04B4gderlinuxstb: it simply has id 84 in the partition id
14:34:17B4gderlinuxstb: just normal disk i/o
14:34:31B4gderlike /dev/sda2
14:34:32linuxstbB4gder: Ah, OK. So a combination of cutit.c, ipodpatcher and mi4code could create an of.bin ?
14:34:37LinusNjhMikeS: it is set to 11 by the init()
14:34:47B4gderlinuxstb: yeps
14:35:05B4gderlinuxstb: but not on the R models I believe, since they don't seem to have that second partition
14:35:31linuxstbSo when you put a .mi4 file in the /system/ folder, the Sansa moves it into the hidden partition?
14:35:40B4gderand deletes it
14:35:40LinusNjhMikeS: no, it is 01
14:35:55linuxstbSo a "sansapatcher" utility could just write the bootloader directly there?
14:35:59B4gderlinuxstb: although on sansa you put the mi4 in the root when you upgrade
14:36:19B4gderlinuxstb: possibly, but we have not yet attempted that way
14:36:40linuxstbI'm just trying to think of ways to make the Sansa installation user-proof...
14:37:06B4gderyeah, we need to make something
14:37:54linuxstbWhat's the legal status of mi4code - could we incorporate decryption into a GPL'd tool?
14:38:50yanfengmarkun: anyway: could you reproduce the error from There is a clarification there as to how to get it.
14:38:58jhMikeSactually, a call through to audiohw_disable_recording shouldn't even reach during init since source == last_source already
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14:39:39B4gderI guess we can write our own decrypt tool by just reading and understanding the mi4code ways of doing it
14:39:53B4gderTEA is not very complicated after all
14:40:10B4gderT is for Tiny iirc
14:41:22linuxstbIs the mi4 image in the hidden partition identical to the .mi4 file?
14:42:44jhMikeSI'll just slide audiohw_init down one call at a time
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14:44:16linuxstbOK, so my first idea is that a tool could be written to decrypt the .mi4 file in the hidden partition, write the RB bootloader back in its place, and then write the unencrypted version of the OF to an unused (but in a fixed location) part of the hidden partition. This just requires raw disk access to the device, which is already in ipodpatcher. This means no OF.bin on the FAT32 partition for the user to break.
14:45:33B4gderassuming we know and can be sure of an unused location
14:45:51LloreanHow big is the hidden partition?
14:45:58linuxstbOf course. I was thinking of something like 100KB into the partition - to give room for the RB bootloader.
14:46:23B4gdersee fdisk output at
14:46:34webguest13Hello, I have 2 Sansa questions...
14:47:12linuxstbB4gder: So 20MB?
14:47:14B4gderit is pretty big
14:47:37B4gderwebguest13: so ask
14:47:56*linuxstb downloads the dumps
14:48:11B4gderlinuxstb: and the mi4 starts at 0x80200 into the partition
14:48:15webguest131. The volume seems to be not as loud as with OF (when choosing 0 or +1db), is this on purpose? And 2. the MUSIC folder is not display, though I made it visible... what did I do wrong?
14:48:36B4gder1) no, 2) how do you mean not displaying?
14:48:41 Quit Shaid (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:48:49Lloreanwebguest13: For 1, sound support is in the early stages, so volume isn't working quite how it should yet.
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14:49:11LloreanI wouldn't be surprised if the OF re-hides the Music folder.
14:49:29webguest13I can't see it when browsing files, just the other folders like SYSTEM, tmp, RECORD, PLAYLISTS etc.
14:49:58jhMikeSplacing it after _pcm_apply_settings, of course
14:50:26webguest13@Llorean: that's what I am thinking too, I have to recheck this in some hours...
14:51:02bluebrotherwebguest13: have you tried setting the file browser view mode to "all"?
14:51:26linuxstbB4gder: And is it safe to corrupt the contents of that hidden partition? i.e. one of the various other usb modes can be used to recover?
14:51:52markunlinuxstb: I'm all for making the bootloader silent
14:51:56webguest13@bluebrother: no, not yet. is this not the default?
14:52:24Lloreanwebguest13: The default is 'supported', which does not display hidden folders.
14:53:04yanfengmarkun: you mentioned that you're woking on nimbus-19. What exactly do you want to do with it? Are far eastern symbols on your list?
14:53:10B4gderlinuxstb: I think so yes, but I'm not 100% sure since I don't think anyone tried it yet
14:53:18markunyanfeng: arabic?
14:53:51markunI've added arabic to nimbus-14 I think, but didn't commit it because the font became very very big
14:53:54B4gderlinuxstb: but I guess that's basically what happens if you install a buggy mi4 file...
14:54:04webguest13@all: ok, I will check all theses settings and report (in some hours)... bye
14:54:14*linuxstb looks for a volunteer to do dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/sda2 on their Sansa
14:54:18 Part LinusN
14:54:28markunI hope I didn't delete it by accident when we moved to svn
14:54:34LloreanB4gder: What was the 'slightly different' when you updated the BL.rom?
14:54:35yanfengmarkun: no, I mean hirgana etc. But it would make the font even bigger#
14:55:08markunyanfeng: I would prefer someone who knows the language to do it
14:55:39B4gderLlorean: uhm, what context is that referring to? (too many things in my brain at the same time)
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14:55:40markunI'm adding greek and some eastern european glyphs right now, the first one is already a big challenge
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14:56:09markunyanfeng: I wasn't able to reproduce fs#6799 btw..
14:56:14linuxstbB4gder: Is there an unencrypted copy of the bootloader at the start of that partition?
14:56:29markunyanfeng: wait, let me try it again
14:56:30LloreanB4gder: On your page, you mention that the hidden partition was slightly different after updating the BL without a new MI4, I was curious if you remembered about that difference before I went and investigated the dumps or something
14:56:56B4gderlinuxstb: hm, I don't know I haven't really checked that afair
14:57:01yanfengmarkun: ok. What about the title in the system menu problem? I also could reproduce it but it seem that me and the reporter are the only persons that managed it. This is the first time I confirm the bug, that's why I ask
14:57:21amiconnmarkun: Speaking about far eastern symbols, I have a question regarding katakana
14:57:21LloreanI bet writing randomness to the /sda2 is pretty similar to dumping a bunch of files in the 16mb recovery mode.
14:57:22yanfengmarkun: you type faster than I think :-)
14:57:30B4gderLlorean: ah no, I don't remember that off the top of my head
14:57:47markunyanfeng: tried it again, still can reproduce it :(
14:58:08LloreanB4gder: Okay, I was just wondering if the /sda2 is likely to require recovery mode to fix, or manufacturing mode. Heh.
14:58:09markunamiconn: I know very very little about it, but you can always ask
14:58:32B4gderLlorean: whipe it and tell us what you learned! ;-O
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14:59:11LloreanB4gder: I'm rather worried I'll learn how to use the mi4code tool finally
15:00:01B4gdere200tool rather, I guess
15:00:09amiconnmarkun: I had a look at the various unicode tables, and it seems that the newplayer lcd chars are "half width" katakana? Do you think this is correct?
15:00:23LloreanYeah, e200tool
15:00:26LloreanSorry, got the naming wrong.
15:00:39LloreanMy understanding is it's fairly unreliable on windows, right?
15:00:54B4gderyes, it seems to be tricky to get it to act properly on windows
15:01:45yanfengmarkun: can? Or can't? Even with the clarification?
15:01:50markunamiconn: I didn't even know there were separate half and full-width glyphs in the unicode table..
15:02:14markunbut we can map both to the newplayer glyphs
15:02:18LloreanB4gder: If I were confident I could use e200tool, I'd probably be a lot more comfortable with the idea if intentionally screwing up /sda2.
15:02:35markunyanfeng: even with pressing left during the logo I still keep the user font
15:02:37linuxstbCould you test it before screwing up sda2?
15:02:40amiconnAlso I can't make sense from the asian-looking chars in the last line
15:02:47B4gderLlorean: getting a live-CD linux to use e200tool with is probably good enough, or possible even using vmware
15:02:52markunyanfeng: but I'm using a Gigabeat
15:02:54Lloreanlinuxstb: I could, I'm just apparently too stupid to think of that idea. Oops.
15:03:16amiconnB4gder: There's a dead link to rocklatin on the DocsIndex, and it seems this page wasn't wikified
15:03:28*Llorean goes to do some research
15:05:47LloreanB4gder: Okay, how do I boot the player into one of the modes e200tool expects?
15:06:22yanfengmarkun: he! I just looked into the bug report: there's already a patch for it! That went quickly!
15:06:47yanfengmarkun: see "related tasks"
15:06:54amiconnmarkun: The newplayer LCD has glyphs for 0xff61 to 0xff9f
15:07:58B4gderLlorean: check a bit down on
15:08:08B4gdermanufacturing mode is your game
15:08:14LloreanB4gder: I had _just_ found it there and was in the middle of typing 'never mind, I found manufacturing mode'
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15:10:23B4gderamiconn: did my fixes remove the bad make zip outputs?
15:11:34linuxstbB4gder: Yes, your dump of sda2 seems to contain: A 512 byte header, the bootloader, some blank space (zeros) until 0x80000, another 512-byte header, then the mi4 file, then zeros to the end of the partition.
15:12:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:12:44linuxstbSo does it seem that the BL isn't flashed?
15:13:00B4gderwell, that is nand flash...
15:13:08B4gderbut that also explains the existance of pre-bl
15:13:11amiconnB4gder: Yes it did, and I told so y'day...
15:13:20B4gderamiconn: ah, I missed that
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15:14:34markunCan I commit the ARM optimizations for speex even if it has some warnings? (as I can't fix them myself)
15:15:11markunI tried the result on my Gigabeat, it sounded fine, but I can't see if it makes decoding any faster (of course)
15:15:21LloreanB4gder: Whelp, I can't get e200tool to recognize my Sansa in windows. Even tried installing libusb as suggested elsewhere. Gonna try re-enabling USB support on my VMWare image.
15:16:59linuxstbLlorean: If you can get e200tool working, an interesting first test would be to do "dd if=rockboxbootloader.mi4 of=/dev/sda2 seek=1025" to write the bootloader directly to the firmware partition. (I think you'll need Linux for that as well). You could then test putting back the OF's mi4 file.
15:17:23Lloreanlinuxstb: Alright, if I get e200tool working I'll try that.
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15:20:37KostaHi all!
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15:21:00bluebrotherLlorean: maybe using knoppix is an option?
15:21:12Lloreanbluebrother: I was gonna try the VMWare image.
15:21:16LloreanThough, apparently USB.h is missing.
15:21:28linuxstb"apt-get install libusb-dev"
15:21:45Lloreanlinuxstb: Thanks
15:21:51LloreanI'll get this working yet. ;)
15:22:15bluebrotherjust was thinking it might be easier as it doesn't need to do some usb-transfer-magic
15:22:54LloreanKnoppix may be the best solution. I'm getting 404s on the attempt to install.
15:23:02linuxstbTry "apt-get update"
15:23:12linuxstbThen try the install again.
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15:24:41Lloreanlinuxstb: It had suggested that, and one other option. I tried the other option first, but the update is running now.
15:25:59LloreanOne way or another I'll get this working. Seems an awful lot of hoops I need to jump to just to safely completely disable my MP3 player. :)
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15:27:46linuxstbLlorean: Hopefully you won't need to use e200tool anyway.
15:27:47B4gderI also have a linux binary of e200tool
15:28:02LloreanB4gder: An e200tool init resulting in Found should mean things are good?
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15:28:16LloreanIt find 0781:0720, but not the second one.
15:28:35B4gderno, the second one is only if thinks go REALLY wrong
15:28:41B4gderas that is the portalplayer mode
15:28:56B4gderwhich we call pre-boot
15:28:59linuxstbLlorean: I assume you currently have the RB bootloader on your Sansa?
15:29:22Lloreanlinuxstb: For the moment
15:29:49linuxstbSo maybe try writing the original mi4 file to the partition as the first test, and if that works, write the bootloader over the top.
15:31:13Lloreanlinuxstb: dd if=PP5024.mi4 of=/dev/sda2 seek=1025 where PP5024 is the OF, still encrypted?
15:31:49linuxstbI think so...
15:32:01linuxstbAssuming /dev/sda is your Sansa...
15:32:25linuxstbTry "fdisk -l" to list the disks visible to vmware
15:33:08markunok, ARM optimizations for speex are committed. Sorry for the warnings.
15:33:11Lloreanlinuxstb: I don't get _any_ results from that
15:34:06markunhi Kosta
15:34:10bluebrotherfdisk -l wants a device as argument ...
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15:34:19bluebrothertry fdisk -l /dev/sda
15:34:39markunsomeone with an ipod here who can check if speex decoding is faster now?
15:34:42linuxstbAt least with my version of fdisk, it will scan all disks if you don't specify a device.
15:34:51Lloreanbluebrother: That worked
15:35:10linuxstbOK, good to know.
15:35:18linuxstbAnd that looks like your Sansa?
15:35:26Lloreansda2 is 20mb
15:35:33B4gderthat's a good start ;-)
15:35:35LloreanType 84
15:35:48bluebrotherlinuxstb: indeed. Just tried it myself. Never was aware of that
15:36:00*bluebrother should try that with more than one disk connected
15:36:50Lloreanlinuxstb: And the seek=1025 should be the right amount independent of what previous version of the OF I had?
15:37:38linuxstbYou could try something else first...
15:38:27linuxstb"dd if=sansa-sda2 skip=1024 count=1 | xxd" (assuming you have the xxd tool installed)
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15:38:55linuxstbThe first line of the output should be something like "0000000: 5050 4d49 00b4 5200 0000 0200 0000 0000 PPMI..R........." followed by lots of zeros
15:39:01LloreanWhat is "count" measured in?
15:39:32linuxstbdd uses 512 bytes as the default buffer size - which is what count uses.
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15:39:48linuxstbSo count=1 is 512 bytes.
15:40:55LloreanOkay, I'm not using dd right.
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15:41:24Lloreandd if=/dev/sda2 of=test.bin seek=1024 count=100 should, in theory, get me 51200 bytes of the current MI4 there, right?
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15:41:57linuxstbThat should be skip=1024 when reading.
15:42:12linuxstbOr 1025 - you want to skip the extra 512-byte header
15:42:24LloreanI do?
15:42:40linuxstb"sector" 1024 contains an extra 512-byte header, and the real mi4 header is at sector 1025.
15:43:32linuxstbYes, the .mi4 file starts with the "PPOS" string - which you should find at sector 1025.
15:44:14LloreanI did.
15:44:29LloreanBut oddly enough the 51200 bytes after that don't match the 51200 bytes of the bootloader I thought I had installed.
15:44:48 Quit yanfeng ("CGI:IRC")
15:44:52linuxstbOK, that is unexpected...
15:45:01LloreanLet me double check
15:45:14LloreanI'll install a bootloader properly, extract it, and see what happens
15:45:27 Quit Shaid ("I will see you, in the end. And I will laugh at your pain...")
15:46:02 Join pilled [0] (
15:46:03LloreanIt's possible that for some strange reason the bootloader in my /sansa/ folder was not the version I installed
15:46:06LloreanSeems strange if it's the case though
15:46:42linuxstbCould be worth installing the bootloader again, to double-check what's going on.
15:48:38LloreanIt's gonna be about 20 minutes before I can do anything with the player
15:49:03LloreanI forgot to wipe my music from it, and it's "Refreshing Database". Which I don't believe is abortable, and it won't let me access the main firmware (and thus USB) while it's doing it.
15:52:12linuxstbSounds like fun... So USB mode means loading the full original firmware?
15:52:54LloreanAnd since you're usually using UMS and not MTP, it you've done certain things it'll decide to refresh the database.
15:54:24linuxstbSo the Sansa's OF would be usable from Linux for example - you drag and drop your music, and it then (slowly) builds the database?
15:54:49B4gderI've only used it with Linux
15:54:57LloreanSlowly isn't the word I'd use though. I'd called Rockbox's database building 'slowly'
15:55:16B4gderbut recently SanDisk came up with the brilliant idea of using a dedicated windows tool for firmware upgrades
15:55:19LloreanI mean, comparatively it's fast, but it's still longer than I want to wait after adding files to a device, if it's a mandatory wait.
15:56:21LloreanAlright, rockbox bootloader is updated.
15:56:44LloreanAfter I delete the music folder, I'll go extract it
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15:59:12 Quit thegeek ()
16:00:02*Llorean notes that the Rockbox delete is very, very slow on the Sansa.
16:03:33Lloreanlinuxstb: Okay, this time, after properly updating to a rockbox bootloader, then extracint dd if=/dev/sda2 of=test.mi4 skip=1025 count=102, the files are identical
16:03:51 Quit atsea- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:04:19Stalwart^Llorean: how much DAPs do you have?
16:04:41LloreanStalwart^: Six, I think
16:04:43linuxstbLlorean: OK, then it would seem OK to write other mi4s to the same place....
16:04:57Lloreanlinuxstb: So, when writing, dd if=PP5024.mi4 of=/dev/sda2 seek=1025 ?
16:05:43linuxstbOut of curiousity, what's at sector 1127 (and onwards)? i.e. the contents of the old (larger) mi4 file, or has it been blanked with zeros?
16:05:43Stalwart^Llorean: two of them are archos and sansa, i think? what are others?
16:06:08linuxstbLlorean: Yes, that dd command looks right.
16:06:50Lloreanlinuxstb: Looks like it's the old MI4
16:07:25linuxstbOK, that makes sense.
16:07:41LloreanStalwart^: Archos Jukebox Recorder 20gb, Sansa e270, iFP-799, iHP-120, iPod Nano 4gb, and Gigabeat F40
16:07:54Lloreanlinuxstb: Well, here it goes.
16:08:05Stalwart^and what's the one you use everyday?
16:08:42LloreanStalwart^: Gigabeat F40 sitting on its dock hooked up to some portable speakers, mostly.
16:08:59Stalwart^is it really so good?
16:09:21Lloreanlinuxstb: "Load main image failed, switch to recovery mode"
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16:10:19 Quit midgey ()
16:10:23B4gderwell, now you can put it there in recovery mode and then you can compare the sda2 partition after that to see what (else) that changed
16:10:42B4gderlike possibly one of those headers or something
16:10:42LloreanYeah, "recovery mode" still working, so it's an easy fix.
16:11:24 Join cro [0] (i=c27f0812@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
16:12:00cro Llorean: "hooked up to some portable speakers": doesn't that kill the sound quality?
16:12:01B4gderyes, trying dd'ing over the BL will require somewhat more effort to recover from ;-)
16:12:23LloreanB4gder: So, I should dump /dev/sda2 with the OF installed, then install our bootloader, DD the OF from seek=1025 back into it, dump that, and compare?
16:12:36linuxstbAh, it seems there is a length in the header...
16:12:56Lloreancro: They aren't that bad. Not great or anything, but not bad either.
16:13:09linuxstb"0080000: 5050 4d49 00b4 5200 0000 0200 0000 0000 PPMI..R......." - 0x0052b400 is the length of the mi4
16:13:18 Quit lostnihilist ("Leaving")
16:13:51B4gderthen presumably the first header has the size for the BL?
16:14:27LloreanB4gder: On the plus side, this shows you can mess up SDA2, but if you don't touch the bootloader bit, it's easy to recover.
16:14:49B4gderyeps, that's nice
16:15:06linuxstb"0000000: 5050 424c 38fc 0500 0000 0100 0000 0000 PPBL8..........." - 0x0005fc28 is the BL* length (392248 bytes).
16:15:22linuxstbSorry, 0x0005fc38
16:15:44LloreanB4gder: As a note, you have to enter the OF for the firmware update to happen.
16:16:16LloreanWhen I tried to update my Rockbox bootloader version, I had to start back into the OF for it to copy it over.
16:17:17B4gderyou dd'ed into sda2 but had to start the OF?
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16:17:27LloreanB4gder: No, the other way
16:17:33LloreanB4gder: The file-on-disk, official method
16:17:41croLlorean: I mean all the discussions about the sound quality of RB vs. the OF. If you have bad speakers those discussions do not make any sense
16:17:46linuxstbOK, so do you think this approach to installation is a good idea? The only problem I see is that the R models will need a different tool...
16:17:50LloreanI had kinda assumed the flash bootloader would handle the firmware update, but apparently it depends on the OF to write it to the disk partition.
16:17:51B4gderah, right then I follow
16:18:17Lloreancro: My opinion on sound quality is this: All that matters is if you reach the point where you can say "It's good enough for me."
16:18:32 Quit Stalwart (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:18:38Lloreancro: Also, just because I normally use it with portable speakers that I can easily pick up and move to any room doesn't mean I don't have nicer things to plug my devices into.
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16:22:09linuxstbLlorean: What's the size (in bytes) of your .mi4 file?
16:22:12 Join t-nine [0] (i=1824f5c8@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
16:22:16linuxstb(the original firmware)
16:22:19croLlorean: I just assume that most people use their daps with not the best speakers so that the dap isn't the weakest point in the chain. That wasn't a punch to you, just my abstract thoughts. I think (based on your phrase) that you don't take part on that discussions
16:22:38t-nineHi, I was just wondering if I can have wiki write rights
16:22:48Lloreanlinuxstb: 5,420,032 actual
16:22:59Lloreancro: Not usually, no.
16:23:11linuxstbWhat's the state of your Sansa now? Can you try something again?
16:23:27Lloreancro: I'm very casual about my sound quality. I refuse to do double blind tests, because I *like* the fact that my brain thinks certain file types sound better, even though rationally I know I probably can't hear the difference.
16:23:32Lloreanlinuxstb: Yes.
16:23:44 Quit cro ("CGI:IRC")
16:24:34linuxstbLlorean: Download this file - and write it to sector 1024, and then write the OF mi4 file to sector 1025.
16:24:48linuxstb(assuming you have the RB bootloader back on your Sansa)
16:25:01t-nineWhos an admin here?
16:25:14linuxstbt-nine: What's your wiki name?
16:25:50Lloreanlinuxstb: The only differences between the /dev/sda2 with the official upgrade, and with PP5024.MI4 dd'ed in are at: 0x80005, 0x80006, 0x7810E1, 0x782D64, 0x782D65, 0x782D68, 0x782D8C, 0x782D90, 0x782D94, 0x782D95, 0x782D98, 0x782DBC, 0x782DC0
16:26:37Lloreanlinuxstb: Give me just a minute and I'll try what you've requested.
16:28:03linuxstbt-nine: OK, you're added.
16:28:27t-ninealright, thanks!
16:28:41linuxstbLlorean: The changes at 0x80005 and 0x80006 should be the length of the mi4. But I wonder what the other changes are...
16:29:00LloreanThose are the only changed bytes across the whole 20mb file.
16:29:35linuxstbOK, well let's see if they're important or not...
16:30:50LloreanI'm in the process of writing the original MI4 to it right now
16:32:56Lloreanlinuxstb: I seem to have just reinstalled the OF.
16:33:37LloreanSo, those other changes may not be important.
16:34:39t-nineHow do I change my page name in the twiki? All the other porst are
16:35:18linuxstbDo you mean a page that is already created?
16:35:38*bluebrother sees a new sansa installation method coming along :)
16:35:48t-nineNo, i have my page, but its just my name. How do i make it say the name of the dap im working on?
16:36:03linuxstbbluebrother: Just to keep the manual writers busy...
16:36:07Lloreanbluebrother: If we're lucky, well have a one-click SansaPatcher.
16:36:12bluebrotherhehe ;-)
16:36:26bluebrotherbut I want to cooode ... ;-)
16:36:28Lloreanlinuxstb: So, it looks like you'll be able to extract an original MI4 for decryption.
16:36:28linuxstbt-nine: I don't think you can - "your" page is by definition your wiki username.
16:36:53Lloreant-nine: You don't change your page, you create a new page for the dap port. T9Port, or whatever.
16:36:57bluebrothert-nine: you can only add pages, not redirect your WikiName page to somewhere else
16:37:15t-nineooooo, ok, how do i create a page?
16:37:23bluebrotherto create a new page use the "Go" box and put in the name of the new page
16:37:35bluebrotherthen you'll get a page that allows you to create a page with that name
16:38:29t-nineok, I got it, thanks :D
16:38:34 Quit Obsys ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
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16:53:00markunmaybe twiki should not accept non-wikiwords when creating a new page..
16:55:26*B4gder renamed it
16:55:33LloreanIt should be SamsunT9Port anyway, shouldn't it?
16:55:40LloreanSamsung even
16:55:47LloreanMost of ours end in Port at least
16:59:32B4gderhe certainly added a lot of useful content in that first version :-P
17:01:22LloreanB4gder: So, where does the firmware MI4 go to on the R models? Is it actually flashed?
17:02:04B4gdersince everything is flash I bet it is ;-)
17:02:36B4gderI assume they just took some space from the nand and access it differently than using the filesystem
17:03:00B4gdersince we have the BL it should be possible to figure it out
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17:04:47 Quit B4gder ("Time to say moo")
17:06:49 Join nls [0] (
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17:09:26markunI don't know what to reply to this guy..
17:09:35markunI'm speechless :)
17:10:15nlsmarkun: ahaha :-)
17:10:49nlsofcourse we did it on purpose ;-)
17:12:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:14:22Kostahe seems a bit uninformed and confused ^^
17:14:44Kostabut thats propably why he asked
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17:15:52nlsLinusN's quote about people having a clue not using wma seems to be very true indeed...
17:16:31 Join midgey [0] (
17:17:03LloreanWMA doesn't have a lot to recommend it.
17:17:05markunso, can anyone with a ARM based DAP check the improvements in the speex decoding with the optimizations?
17:17:56Lloreanmarkun: If I knew where I'd put my Nano. Are they in SVN, or is it a patch?
17:19:13markunlinuxstb: it's in SVN, so you could compare yesterday's build with today's
17:19:30markunWe need someting better than boost ratio..
17:19:34LloreanWe do indeed
17:20:33Lloreanmarkun: The March 12 build should be fine for an old-code build?
17:21:36 Join bluey- [0] (
17:22:05markunLlorean: yes, should work
17:22:40LloreanOkay, boost radio fluctuating consistently between 15% and 17% with that build
17:23:18 Quit zylche (Remote closed the connection)
17:24:17Kostastupid noob question: whats a boost ratio?
17:24:42 Quit swimmer (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:25:11nlsa measure of how long the processor needs to be boosted to keep up
17:25:19Lloreanmarkun: Okay, pre-opts, the boost would go from 15% to 17% (the PCM buffer watermark seems REALLY high by the way), with the opts, it's staying around 14%, mostly consistently.
17:25:29nlsiow a performance measure, lower is better
17:25:54Kostaprocessor boosted = running at top speed?
17:26:11LloreanKosta: Not really "Top", but the fastest Rockbox chooses to run it.
17:26:23nlsLlorean: iirc Slasheri made the watermark on the pcm buffer really high sometime around when he introduced the new schedular
17:26:25Kostaok, makes sense :)
17:26:43Lloreannls: It's really, REALLY high.
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17:27:27nlsLlorean: yeah I know, he said that it doesn't do any harm to switch boost state that often either...
17:27:45nlsas it does boost whenever it hits the watermark
17:28:10nlsKosta: it is at or near the top speed for most targets tho
17:28:11LloreanWell, there is a cost when boosting.
17:28:14LloreanIt takes time to boost.
17:28:36markunLlorean: well, no spectacular improvements then, but at least it helps a bit
17:28:38LloreanSo spending 15% of your time boosting, boosting sixteen times per minute IS worse than spending 15% of your time boosted, boosting 5 times a minute.
17:28:39nlsLlorean: I thought so too but the cost is apparently immesurably small
17:28:45Kostashouldnt it be as low as possible to save power?
17:28:59LloreanKosta: We run the cpu low as long as we can.
17:29:05nlsKosta: it needs to boost to decode audion fast enough sometimes
17:29:17Lloreannls: Did he put numbers on this somewhere?
17:29:49nlsLlorean: no, he just told me when I asked him in here, it is probably in the logs somewhere :-)
17:29:52Lloreannls: I don't understand why we even HAVE that large of a PCM buffer if we're going to keep the watermark high.
17:30:06LloreanIf there's 300kb of data that you never access, why even have it there?
17:31:07nlsLlorean: I don't understand the buffering stuff well enough to answer that, but I guess it is sort of a safeguard when something else eats the cpu for a while
17:31:29amiconnnls: The cost also depends on the target
17:31:59amiconnFor coldfire, the cpu runs at the base frequency until the pll has relocked, which can take up to 10ms
17:32:09nlsamiconn: oh, how much does it differ?
17:32:38amiconnThat means, when switching 45 <-> 124MHz, the CPU runs at 11MHz for up to 10ms (typical 3ms)
17:34:37 Quit midgey ()
17:34:59Lloreanmarkun: One of our summer of code suggestions is some method of being able to test codec performance.
17:36:32nlsamiconn: so if my calculations are correct (i'm not sure :-) ) if we change speed once every second and play for 14 hours we'd run the cpu at 11MHz for about 5 minutes (if the change takes 3ms)
17:40:59 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
17:42:21 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
17:45:54linuxstbLlorean: Could you send me the MBR from your Sansa? (dd if=/dev/sda of=mbr-sansa.bin count=1)
17:48:34Lloreanlinuxstb: Sure, just a moment while VMWare boots
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17:49:58nlsahah, in a mistic river "which build do you use" for the H300 the official builds scores a mere 9% XD
17:50:31saratogaalbum art probably has something to do with that
17:51:42Lloreanlinuxstb: Alright, I've the file. How should I go about getting it to you?
17:52:02nlsmaybe, I thought the working-but-not-quite-in-the-way-we-want-it-to patch for albumart was going to be comitted as a stop-gap method...
17:53:01saratogathat'd be nice, but i haven't heard anything
17:53:12saratogathe sheer amount of fustration that patch has generated over the months is insane
17:54:31nlsyes, any patch that has to do with "teh shiney" gets huge attention from users but stangely(? ;-)) not from most devs :-)
17:55:06LloreanI don't see anything strange about it.
17:55:54LloreanDevs are working on what they feel is important or interesting, and assume the people currently working on the shiny will get it up to a committable point eventually
17:56:13amiconnnls: 150 seconds
17:56:20nlsno, your right it's just that there is such a gap between what the devs care about and what (most) users care about
17:56:35nlsamiconn: then I am way off :-)
17:56:40LloreanOn the plus side, there's not a real downside to not catering to users, is there?
17:57:02nlsof course not, who needs users anyway?
17:57:20LloreanWell, they make good bug testers just by sheer force of numbers and chance. :-P
17:57:33amiconnOnce every second is ok, even several times. But e.g. 50 times per second would not be okay, and that might happen with the button boost
17:57:40saratogai do love how this project really can be indifferent to users
17:57:43saratoganot that it is
17:57:57Lloreansaratoga: It's not really indifferent.
17:57:58SaLoMoNIs it normal that rockbox on sansa e200 crashes after 1-020seconds?
17:58:13Lloreansaratoga: But they don't have the kind of weight they would in a commercial project.
17:58:58LloreanSaLoMoN: What were you doing when it crashed, and what sort of crash did you get?
17:59:09SaLoMoNdoenst matter what I'm doing...
17:59:21amiconnFurthermore, frequency changes on coldfire cause the timer interval to become imprecise, which is btw the reason why we need to keep the cpu boosted during backlight fading on h1x0
17:59:23SaLoMoNlistening to music or trying any plugin
17:59:35KostaSaLoMoN, no it should not crash
17:59:39SaLoMoNit hangs up
17:59:51SaLoMoNand the screen is getting very colored
18:00:22nlsamiconn: does buttonboost make the cpu boost on any buttonpress? and since when does it do that?
18:00:51LloreanSaLoMoN: When did you first install Rockbox?
18:01:01SaLoMoNa few weeks ago
18:01:05SaLoMoNI had that problem too
18:01:18SaLoMoNnow i wanted to test it again because of the audio support
18:01:25SaLoMoNsame problem :|
18:01:33LloreanTry updating your bootloader. Download the newest PP5022.MI4 file from the link on the official install instructions, and put it in the root of your player.
18:01:39SaLoMoNI did
18:01:44barrywardellSaLoMoN: I think there may be bugs in the LCD driver
18:01:55Lloreanbarrywardell: Oh, there's no question about that one. ;)
18:01:59 Join perplexity [0] (
18:02:05LloreanBut crashes every 10-20 seconds is a bit extreme.
18:02:07SaLoMoNbarrywardell, the sound stops too
18:03:03barrywardellSaLoMoN: yes, when the LCD driver crashes, it seems to take the rest of rockbox with it!
18:03:03SaLoMoNI think this is the newsets one?
18:03:30LloreanSaLoMoN: It sounds like you're just going to have to wait for improvements.
18:03:39LloreanAs I'm sure you know, it's still very early for Rockbox on the Sansa.
18:03:51netmasta10btis that a new bootloader? for e200 ?
18:04:05Lloreannetmasta10bt: It's not _that_ new.
18:04:09SaLoMoNnow the cube works
18:04:10LloreanIt's just the most recent one.
18:04:14barrywardellSaLoMoN: or you can try figure out what's wrong with the LCD driver
18:04:23netmasta10btok, not new in the last 2-3 days
18:04:24 Join ender` [0] (
18:04:29SaLoMoNI think its not the lcd driver
18:04:32SaLoMoNonly sound
18:04:39SaLoMoNthe cube plugin works fine
18:04:59SaLoMoNmore than 1minute now
18:05:07SaLoMoNseems to be the audio driver
18:05:13LloreanThe LCD driver definitely has problems. Or at least something involved in LCD updates does.
18:05:13barrywardellso it only crashes when playing sound?
18:05:31LloreanList drawing has a lot of noticeable artifacts that aren't there on other Rockbox devices.
18:05:49netmasta10btmine crashes on settings->rockbox info
18:06:53 Join Frode_ [0] (n=Frode@
18:07:03barrywardellnot to mention the flickering, occasional failure of the bootloader to load, ...
18:07:05amiconnLlorean: Afaik the problem is that lcd_update() is asynchronous on Sansa
18:07:27Lloreanamiconn: Ah, well that description sounds like it'd explain a lot of what I'm seeing.
18:07:50barrywardellyes, we need to figure out how to wait for the dma transfer to finish
18:08:00Lloreanbarrywardell: That white screen instead of a bootloader caused me a bit of a panic the first time it happened, since it just happened to align with some experimenting I thought was safe.
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18:08:33barrywardellLlorean: haha, me too. It even happens when booting the OF sometimes
18:09:12 Quit midgey ()
18:09:21*Llorean is hoping we end up with an automagic installer.
18:10:18barrywardellalso, the latest SVN bootloader shouldn't call lcd_update() unless there is an error or FFWD is pressed, but yet it still updates the lcd with the rockbox blue.
18:12:57Lloreanamiconn: With asynchronous lcd_updates, what should it look like?
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18:17:32saratogahas anyone heard from Toni recently?
18:17:40saratogai kind of hate to keep bugging him for progress updates
18:17:47 Join donvito [0] (
18:18:24donvitohey dan, you here?
18:23:59donvitois anyone here that heard about the whole e200 -> e200r conversion?
18:24:06 Join merwin [0] (n=merwin@
18:25:11netmasta10bti read the i2c post from bagder to send the e200 stuff to the 200r
18:25:23netmasta10btdid u try that
18:25:39donvitothe one in the e200r forum?
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18:25:58donvitoyea i read that, see the thing is, im trying to do the opposite
18:26:06donvitoe200r > e200
18:26:44netmasta10bttrying to turn the e200 into a rhap model
18:26:55donvitono the other way around...
18:27:03_Amblinhey don, had any luck?
18:27:27netmasta10bti thought that's what bagder suggested
18:27:28donvitowell not as of yet :]
18:27:38barrywardelldonvito: merwin was trying to do that earlier
18:27:39_AmblinYET :)
18:27:43donvitoic ic
18:27:46donvitoyea YET keyword
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18:28:18donvitoi think that i read somewhere that when you convert an e200 to a rhapsody, theres no going back yet either
18:29:47saratogadon: did you see this post by Bagder in the R thread: "we have been making some fun progress and have been able to convert a vanilla e200 to a e200R and back..."
18:29:52linuxstbbarrywardell: Did you read the logs from earlier today about the Sansa's second partition, and my idea for an ipodpatcher-like installer for the Sansa?
18:29:53saratogasounds like the process is now invertable
18:31:47donvitosaratoga: niceeee
18:31:51barrywardelllinuxstb: yes. I like the idea a lot
18:32:19 Part nls
18:32:21donvitoi just hope that bagder is around soon, so i can talk with him about the rhapsody to vanilla conversion
18:32:28netmasta10btthe scroll wheel is causing all sorts of crazyness for me
18:32:49barrywardelllinuxstb: have you started working on a tool for it?
18:33:12Frode_what this vanilla thing?
18:33:29donvitovanilla means plain e200
18:33:32linuxstbbarrywardell: I'm just starting it now.
18:33:38donvitoya know like vanilla = plain haha
18:33:53LloreanI've always thought "vanilla" was an odd word choice for "plain"
18:33:57donvitolinuxstb: thats really cool, i think that would make things easier :]
18:33:59Frode_ok...that has to be some american stuff. lol
18:34:02LloreanAs far as I'm concerned, Vanilla is a very strong flavour.
18:34:07barrywardellcool. I'd be glad to test a patch once you have it up and running
18:34:09donvitohaha, i agree
18:34:59linuxstbbarrywardell: What do you think about storing the decrypted version of the OF in that hidden partition, instead of in a file on the FAT32 partition? That would mean changing the bootloader slightly to read it from there instead.
18:35:21barrywardellI think it's much better that way
18:35:49barrywardellif we could do everything automagically using a tool and have little to no risk of breaking things afterwards, that would be great
18:35:49LloreanI agree.
18:36:00donvitorgr that guys
18:36:08donvitonoobs rejoice
18:36:24barrywardelllinuxstb: one option would be to append the OF to the bootloader and make a big mi4 out of the whole lot
18:36:27linuxstbThe downside seems to be that this approach won't work on the R models - they don't seem to have that partition.
18:36:46linuxstbbarrywardell: Yes, but wouldn't that slow down Rockbox booting?
18:37:08barrywardellpossibly, yes. that would be the downside. I'm not sure how big of an affect that would be though
18:37:09donvitolinuxstb: the 16mb or the hidden?
18:37:22Lloreanbarrywardell: We've already managed to manually write an MI4 into the hidden partition, so we should be able to write a bootloader to it, then safely make use of the extra space.
18:37:23linuxstbThe hidden second partition visible in normal UMS mode.
18:37:41donvitoahh ic ic
18:38:36LloreanThere's an awful lot of free space in it.
18:38:42preglowdidn't someone have a proper patch for building gcc on amd64?
18:38:45barrywardellthinking about it, the one big mi4 file doesn't really give any benefit and would actually make things harder and slower
18:38:45preglowthe one in the wiki is a hack
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18:39:39linuxstbbarrywardell: Yes. My idea is that there would be a 512-byte header at a fixed location on disk. The bootloader would read that sector and check for some magic to see if the OF was present.
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18:40:15linuxstbThe header would also include the length of the OF, and then OF itself would follow starting at the next sector.
18:40:35barrywardelllinuxstb: could you not just read the length of the rockbox bootloader from the mi4 header, then check just after that for a OF header?
18:40:58barrywardellso that you wouldn't need a fixed location on disk
18:41:12barrywardellalthough that would make upgrading the bootloader slightly more complicated if its size changes
18:41:31linuxstbYes. Or even better, from the "pre-mi4" header which is at offset 0x80000 in the hidden partition.
18:42:05 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
18:42:23linuxstbYes, I'll avoid the fixed location.
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18:43:33barrywardellgood. it's more complicated, but imho a better way to do it
18:44:27SofRaZorbacKhi all is there some voice files guru here. I need to generate a voicepause.wav file and don't know how to do that. it's digital silence.
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18:46:36SofRaZorbacKdonvito thx hope it's speech friendly
18:46:48donvitoSofRaZorbacK: np dude
18:46:58donvitoSofRaZorbacK: should be able to generate silence with it easily
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18:48:59preglowdo anyone know how i can pipe stderr along to other progs with sh?
18:49:16_AmblinWell yesterday's build of RB for the E200 was a bust in my opinion..volume was lower and it sounded worse
18:52:50 Part SofRaZorbacK
18:53:07netmasta10bti dont believe anything changed in sound since dan checked in sound code?
18:54:55_AmblinThen perhaps the work they did on the ADC driver cause this?
18:55:38Frode_if the battery is low on the sansa, can the playback quality be decreased alot? i think i experienced this today, it was all skippy and bad - until i tested again now, charged it for an hour
18:55:48_AmblinBecause now it seems to me that half volume on the build of the 12th is the max for the 13ths
18:56:00_AmblinNot only that, it crackles
18:56:08Frode_correct, crackles too
18:56:22_AmblinIve reverted to the 12th's build for now
18:57:04Frode_ok.. which is the best one for now?
18:57:14_AmblinI believe at the time I tested, I still had half a battery left, according to the OF, I dunno, Ill again later today
18:57:27_AmblinIMO the 12th is the best for now
18:58:45jac0bcan you make a playlist on your computer and add it to rockbox?
18:58:53Lloreanjac0b: Yes
18:59:08LloreanJust make sure it points to the songs on your player, and is an m3u or m3u8 format playlist.
18:59:13jac0bI have tried that but it doesn't see it
18:59:31LloreanWhat do you mean by "doesn't see it"
18:59:56jac0bwhen I startup rockbox where do I go to find it
19:00:04LloreanWhere did you put the file?
19:00:12preglowbah, i see people mentioning |& to pipe stderr, but it doesn't work here :/
19:00:21jac0bin the folder with the album
19:00:37Lloreanjac0b: Then you go into that folder to find it.
19:01:14jac0bwould it be better to put the playlists in the root
19:01:14LloreanI mean, it's not too difficult. If you put a file somewhere, then when you want to find that file, you look where you put it.
19:01:39LloreanDepends on what you mean by "better"
19:01:50LloreanIf you like them in the root better, then yes, it's better to put them in the root.
19:01:55jac0bI did look in the folder of the album for the playlist but I didn't see it
19:02:14LloreanHave you changed the "File View" setting?
19:03:32jac0bI have the "File View" set to supported
19:03:52LloreanWell, if it's a .m3u or a .m3u8 file, it should show up in the filetree then.
19:04:22jac0balright well I will have to try again
19:04:43jac0bthanks for the help Llorean
19:07:50 Part Llorean
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19:11:41amiconnlinuxstb: Does the hidden partition on the sansa use a known filesystem, or is it just raw data?
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19:12:30linuxstbIt's just very raw data.
19:12:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:14:50linuxstbThe first sector starts with "PPBL", followed by the length of the bootloader, which follows in subsequent sectors. Then it's empty until 512KB into the partition, where there is a "PPMI" string, followed by the length of the mi4 image, which is then in the subsequent sectors. The mi4 image itself also has a 512-byte header.
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19:16:06jac0bwhere do I find the e200 version for the 12th not current
19:16:39amiconnmarkun: Seems I was wrong. The ltp code seems to be used for the decoder; at least linking speex.codec fails when leaving out ltp.c (and hence ltp_arm4.h) from compilation
19:18:12jac0bthanks amblin
19:18:31_AmblinYour welcome, jac0b.
19:20:15jac0bhow is the progress on the volume has there been any headway
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19:22:56Frode_im missing some louder volume on the sansa, is this known?
19:23:53_AmblinThe Devs know about the volume being lower than on the OF, and attempts in raising the volume thus far has caused crackling.
19:24:57_AmblinFor now in my humble opinion, the 12th's build has the highest volume, with no crackling, and also the best sound quality
19:25:22Frode_ok ok
19:25:32Frode_thanks, i will test that right away
19:25:55 Nick pilled is now known as pill (
19:25:55Frode_im testing a couple of different audio formats for playback at the moment
19:25:55amiconnjhMikeS: Your fix is for H300 as well...
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19:28:10Ice8luegood evening
19:28:18preglowamiconn: do you have a better patch for m68k gcc on amd64 than the one in the wiki?
19:28:23_Amblingood morning :)
19:28:52amiconnpreglow: There is a backport from the current gcc svn in flyspray, but I didn't try it yet
19:29:02preglowamiconn: ah, cool, i will do that, then
19:29:46 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:30:09 Quit jac0b ("CGI:IRC")
19:30:14 Join jac0b [0] (i=9b6d0515@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ needs modifying to support amd64 hosts
19:30:58preglowit doesn't currently support downloading several patches, though, and i bloody hate coding bash
19:31:10Ice8luemorning?^^ hey i got a it possible to keep listening to music while using the plugins?
19:31:44preglowIce8lue: sure, depends on the plugin
19:31:56Ice8luepreglow: doom f.e.?
19:32:02preglowdoom needs the audio for itself, so no
19:32:28Ice8luebut there is no audio
19:32:29preglowi have audio
19:32:29amiconnDoom needs the audio buffer before all
19:32:40preglowyeah, also true
19:32:48_AmblinDo you have a e200, Ice?
19:32:55Ice8luewell...ya e250
19:33:14Frode__Amblin, I can't really hear a difference in the sound volume for 12th or 13th build..
19:34:19_AmblinWell there was an apparent change in volume and sound quality
19:34:27_AmblinIll give it another shot.
19:34:33Frode_really. . .
19:34:43_AmblinWEll to me atleast
19:34:55Frode_ok :]
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19:35:14Ice8lueanybody else has this problem on sansa?
19:35:44Frode_Ice8lue, yes i use to play jewels and listen to music
19:36:23Ice8lueFrode_: ok i tried that. doesnt work, sound stops immediatly
19:36:45Frode_Ice8lue, running the latest build?
19:37:24Ice8lueyesterdays build somewhere arround 9pm
19:38:00SaLoMoNwhere can I find themes for rockbox?
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19:38:14Frode_Hmm.. not sure if i tried yesterday. but it works for todays 13th build
19:38:18SaLoMoNand.. do they work on sansa e200 already?
19:38:33Ice8lueSaLoMoN: There arent that much....
19:38:42Frode_SaLoMoN, it works on e200 yes, but not the raphsody version
19:39:08Ice8lueFrode_: ok, so ill update it...
19:39:14Ice8luelets hope and see^^
19:39:22Frode_Ice8lue, try to, and report back
19:39:34SaLoMoNand where?
19:39:41_AmblinWell, the crackling has disapeared
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19:39:52Frode_Ice8lue, im playing jewels on the latest build now.. works.
19:40:28Ice8lueok one moment....
19:40:44Frode_woot, two new ones! awsome
19:41:00_AmblinYeah, the Winamp based one is pretty sweet IMO
19:41:11amiconnmarkun: The assembled code looks correct, it's just the warning we need to get rid of
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19:41:45Frode_i'll add them now and check it out
19:41:46Sniper_Spikewhich one is winamp based
19:41:55Sniper_Spikeoh, rockamp
19:42:03Sniper_SpikeI have the old ghetto looking winamp :P
19:42:09Sniper_Spikenot that fancy new stuff
19:42:31preglowamiconn: what should i do if the patch works ok? upload to the wiki and delete the old one?
19:44:30Frode_I can confirm that there is pops/crackles while playing mp3 and jewels plugin at once.. now and then
19:45:23preglowcoldfire changes to 4.3:
19:45:29Frode_Sniper_Spike, you got it on a sansa?
19:45:29preglowdoesn't exactly look extremely exciting
19:45:56Sniper_SpikeI'll see Frode
19:45:59Sniper_Spikejewels you say
19:46:30Frode_yep.. with todays build on the sansa
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19:47:36_AmblinHey guys, I have an idea, lemme hear what you think. Say your playing a game or watching a plugin, and you want to control the music (stop, play, next song etc), one presses the record button, then the stop, play, next button, and in the backround, the player responds without having to go to Now playing
19:47:39jac0bI tried "BlackGlass" on my sansa and I get a "data abort"
19:48:29Ice8luewould it be possible to port ScummVM to rockbox? i think it would be very funny^^
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19:49:30_AmblinSo my pet idea is a 20 year old dog on its last legs? :P
19:49:36preglowamiconn: patch works fine
19:50:07Frode_Im now using the rockamp blue on the sansa. works fine. cool theme
19:50:27Frode_eek.. skipping sound
19:50:47Frode_could it be caused of the database updating in the background or something?
19:51:10*amiconn got rid of the warnings in arm4 libspeex :)
19:51:13Sniper_Spikejust loaded the newest rockbox Frode
19:51:19dan_a_Amblin: I don't like it because it's not obvious - what does record have to do with stopping music?
19:51:54Frode_hey dan_a :)
19:52:01dan_aHi Frode_
19:52:05amiconnpreglow: I guess we should use it then instead of the old hack
19:52:17dan_apreglow: Did you get an answer to your stderr question?
19:52:30amiconnpreglow: It might be better to switch to 4.0.3 as well
19:52:47Frode_dan_a, im experiencing lots of skipping/pops in mp3 playback on the sansa now.. any clues?
19:52:48preglowamiconn: any reason? last i checked, the code didn't look any better
19:53:02preglowdan_a: i found a hackish way: lol 2>&1 |
19:53:07dan_aFrode_: Does it go away if you turn the volume down?
19:53:08preglowdan_a: if there's any better, please say so :)
19:53:08amiconnMost code is about equally fast, but wavpack profits...
19:53:22preglowamiconn: i have no objections if you have tested and found it to be ok
19:53:25Frode_dan_a: let me check
19:53:29_AmblinBecause when your in a plugin, or game, the play stop fas forward, rewind, are all being used. The record button will act like a shift key on a computer, for running operations outside of the present window
19:53:39amiconnAnd we would have the same recommended version for all targets
19:53:46preglowamiconn: would be nice indeed
19:54:09Frode_dan_a: correct.. its all about the volume. goes away at a lower lever
19:54:23dan_apreglow: That's fine if you want stderr and stdout to be piped... if you just want stderr it's even nastier... lol 2>&1 >&3 3>&- |
19:54:36preglowdan_a: i know i only get stderr
19:54:49 Quit midgey ()
19:54:56preglowit's just used to pipe gcc -v to grep, really
19:54:57Sniper_Spikeyes Frode_
19:55:01preglowfor some reason, gcc pretty much always prints to stderr
19:55:02Sniper_SpikeI get slight crackles in jewels
19:55:37dan_aFrode_: That's the headphone current limiter kicking in - I need to do some work to make volume louder without that happening
19:56:02Sniper_SpikeFrode_ but I only noticed it when Ioaded jewels
19:56:05Ice8luewas away for some would scummvm be possible? open source too
19:56:41netmasta10bti wouldn't want to play scumm without a mouse or stylus
19:56:47dan_aIce8lue: It's been asked about before - IIRC it is written in C++ so it would be difficult to mix with Rockbox
19:57:29*amiconn wonders whether ffmpeg has a more efficient aac codec than libfaad
19:57:35Learamiconn: you mean gcc 4.0.3 for m68k?
19:57:39Frode_dan_a: i see.. a check on the limiting has to be monitored? to allow the higher volumes without the interupting from the limiter checks
19:57:44amiconnLear: yes
19:57:44preglowamiconn: it's still work in progress
19:57:47Ice8luedan_a: too noobish for such things^^ but the syntax of c and c++ is very similar isnt it?
19:58:33dan_aFrode_: I think I might just have to enable a "low power" mode, but I wanted to get audio working first, and then get it working right.
19:58:56Sniper_SpikeIce8lue: well I'd say they are pretty similar
19:58:56Learamiconn: gcc 4.0.3 didn't look that promising when I tested it, but maybe it can be tweaked a bit with options (e.g., -fstrength-reduce reduces size on 3.4.6).
19:59:08Frode_dan_a: kool. yes, you are the man :)
19:59:08dan_aIce8lue: Similar, but that doesn't make it easy to take a lump of C++ and mix it with C and have it work.
19:59:12LearBtw, 4.0.4 is out...
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19:59:38HDoganyone upgraded H320 to something like 60gb?
19:59:39amiconnLear: My tests had no negative results for any format, and wavpack became considerably faster...
20:00:05HDogI got an HD yesterday, and been messing around since, trying to make it work
20:00:09amiconnI don't remember what influence it had on binary size
20:00:17preglowa negative one
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20:00:18Ice8luedamn....would really like to play monkey island mobile^^ got scummvm on my mobile phone a long time and thought it would be possible.... well, if i trained some more, maybe i'll try
20:00:19Sniper_SpikeFrode_: yes I can hear slight crackles now while listening to softer music
20:00:21preglowbut not by extreme amounts
20:00:30LearHm.. Should be noted that my tests weren't very accurate (looked on boost ratio). :)
20:00:44amiconnMe too
20:00:52Sniper_SpikeFrode_ but it's only while navigating menus, etc
20:01:12amiconnPerhaps we should try 4.0.4
20:01:21LearJust started downloading. :)
20:01:22Frode_Sniper_Spike: i guess dan_a, and others will figure out these bugs sooner or later
20:01:36amiconn(for all targets, unless we don't want identical versions. 4.1.x is a no-go for m68k)
20:01:41preglowhow do you delete attachments from the wiki?
20:01:57HDogso I was wondering if ppl who upgraded their iRiver HD formatted them from inside the player or used some sort of enclosure?
20:01:58 Quit Kosta ("Leaving")
20:01:59preglowhrm, guess i'll wait until you figure out whether to switch compilers anyway
20:02:04amiconnYou don't. YOu move them to the TrashAttachment topic
20:02:11dan_aamiconn: There are big savings for sh using 4.1.2
20:02:31amiconndan_a: Oh? Last time I tried it the effect was minimal
20:02:37amiconn(but that was 4.1.0 iirc)
20:03:04dan_aOf the order of 10k, IIRC
20:03:15*amiconn also thought that dan_a tested 4.1.2 on arm...
20:03:47preglow4.2.0 is out in not too long
20:03:57*amiconn thinks he needs to adapt the rockbox patch to 4.1.2 and start testing
20:04:03dan_aamiconn: I have, and it works pretty well
20:04:41amiconndan_a: Without rockbox patch, SH binaries built with -Os (which we use; also applies to -O2 and -O3) will crash
20:04:59amiconn(unless the gcc team fixed it which is rather unlikely imho)
20:06:05dan_aamiconn: How much would the patch affect binary size? I didn't bother adapting it for the quick test I did, but it didn't look like it would change things
20:06:15amiconnAlmost neglectible
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20:06:37 Join Tyronemaskell [0] (
20:06:47 Join DataGhost [0] (
20:06:52Tyronemaskellhello all
20:06:53amiconnThe patch corrects jumptable generation is some corner cases (which happen to appear in our code)
20:07:12Tyronemaskellanyone here who knows how to program
20:07:28Tyronemaskellie got a wps file that i wouldlike to add something too
20:07:35 Join amigan [0] (i=dcp1990@unaffiliated/amigan)
20:08:02Tyronemaskellcan anyone help me its pretty simple i think
20:08:08Sniper_Spikewps files are rather straight forward
20:08:33Sniper_Spikethere's an article about them on the wiki
20:08:37Ice8luewhats up?
20:08:42HDoganyone with iRiver H300 series player who upgraded their HD?
20:08:46 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:09:18HDogI think I got a defective HD, but I'm not sure how to be sure so I could return it
20:10:01_AmblinWell I know when big hard drives fail, they either click or dont spin up at all
20:10:02Tyronemaskellhey ive got i H300
20:10:08Tyronemaskellwhen you know tell me too
20:10:27TyronemaskellSniper_Spike pls can you check your pvt
20:10:39HDogthis one doesn't make any 'bad' sounds, the problem is I can't format it
20:10:52_AmblinBut can you still listen to music?
20:10:55Ice8luewell i know it but i dont have one
20:11:04amiconndan_a: Did you compare unpatched 4.0.3 vs. unpatched 4.1.2 then?
20:11:28_AmblinIf the only problem you have is not being able to format the hard drive, its likely just a software issue
20:11:29HDogwith the new 60gig HD inside iRiver I hook it up to the PC and windows thinks it's 2 tera bytes
20:11:35amiconnUnpatched vs. patched makes a *huge* difference. Without patch, 'configure' won't enable -Os
20:12:14HDogI was thinking of going and buying an enclosure to test it, but I never heard anyone mentioning doing that on mysticriver forum
20:12:15_AmblinWell this is likely something you can fix with a firmware update
20:12:36_AmblinAre you sure this drive is compatible with the player?
20:12:56dan_aUnpatched 4.1.2, but patched 4.0.3 - I'm pretty sure I saw the size grow, checked out why, and then enabled -Os manually (it didn't matter to me if the binary would crash...)
20:13:00Tyronemaskellhey HDog guess you got an iriver too
20:13:13Sniper_SpikeTyronemaskell: my what?
20:13:14HDogit's MK6006GAH
20:13:19Tyronemaskellcan i paste my wps file here
20:13:26amiconndan_a: Ah ok
20:13:26HDogTyronemaskell: yup, I got it
20:13:35bluebrotherTyronemaskell: no, use a pastebin
20:13:37dan_aamiconn: I'll double check
20:13:38HDogTyronemaskell: but I don't have rockbox on it yet
20:13:59Tyronemaskellrockbox rocks
20:14:16Sniper_Spikeof course it does
20:14:19Tyronemaskellwhats a paste bin
20:14:23HDogyup, sure does, as soon as I get this HD working it's goin right onto this player :)
20:14:27Tyronemaskelli need to add something so small
20:15:01HDogAmblin: do u think I need to update firmware for the HD to be recognized by windows as 60gb?
20:15:37HDogSwissKnife detects it as 40gb, but fails to format it
20:15:40bluebrother(if by "here" you mean pasting in the channel)
20:15:42TyronemaskellSniper_Spike dude pls help me im sure you know how
20:15:52_AmblinIts always possible, but this is an unsupported mod.
20:15:56_AmblinYou could always try it
20:16:23_AmblinHave you tested it on another computer?
20:16:48Tyronemaskellpls check my paste bin Sniper_Spike
20:16:56HDogyeah, on win98 laptop and on the Mac, Mac also thinks it's 2TB HD
20:17:14Tyronemaskellthats cool
20:17:24HDogheh, I wish it were 2TB man
20:17:54_AmblinWell there is no doubt in my mind that its a simple software issue.
20:18:00TyronemaskellSniper_Spike pls check my pastebin dude
20:18:20Tyronemaskelli have no idea
20:18:27Tyronemaskelli pasted some stuff there
20:18:28amiconnTyronemaskell: Difficult to do w/o giving the link...
20:18:33HDogAmblin: what would be the next step to do? btw the old 20gb HD detects/formats just fine
20:18:34_AmblinNever heard of a defective hard drive throwing out a wrong figure as its storage capacity.
20:18:35bluebrotherTyronemaskell: a pastebin works in an easy way: you post your code to the pastebin. You'll get a link. You post the link in the channel
20:18:55HDogah I see, I hope it's software!
20:19:02Tyronemaskellok im waiting for it
20:19:13HDogI'd really love to have RoxBox on it by this evening so I could show off at the gym :o)
20:19:23_AmblinYou followed a guide on doing this mod?
20:19:44HDogwell there're couple of guides on mysticriver that I've read
20:19:53Sniper_Spikethat pastebin seems a bit laggy
20:19:58Sniper_Spiketry that
20:20:28_AmblinPerhaps you should try contacting a few of these people. Obviously if they pulled off this mod they should have extensive knowledge on the player, and they should be able to tell you what to do.
20:21:14Tyronemaskellthats it
20:21:15_AmblinChances are one of them encountered an issue like this while doing this mod.
20:21:16HDogmost of those posts are from 2005 though, they're proably all got iPods by now :/
20:21:41_AmblinAny of them still active?
20:21:56HDogI was searching the forum though, and didn't find anyone with similar problem
20:22:07HDogyeah some are
20:22:40dan_aamiconn: I'd been comparing the wrong things - it's about 100bytes difference
20:23:13HDogwanted to get it working today though.. too bad nobody here upgraded :/
20:23:18_AmblinAnd you followed their guides verbatim?
20:24:00HDogwell the actual installation and running of HD guides are really straight forawrd... put in the HD, format.
20:24:11Sniper_SpikeTyronemaskell: I think it would help all of us help you if you told us what you wanted changed with the wps
20:25:12_AmblinSO its really just supposed to be a plug and play kind of a thing
20:25:15Tyronemaskellcurrently im seeing artist album and title i wanna see folder name too
20:25:19Tyronemaskellcurrently im seeing artist album and title i wanna see folder name too
20:26:14_AmblinIs there any way to find out what capacity the player thinks it has?
20:26:19HDogpretty much, but, it's a little bit tricky because u have to format it Fat32, and the HD is 60gb (larger than 32gig max that winXP can format)
20:27:09_AmblinThe player comes up as an MSC device?
20:27:42Tyronemaskell%ac~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Next ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
20:27:43Tyronemaskell%s%al%?Ia<%Ia|Unknown Artist |%D1 >%arArtist
20:27:43Tyronemaskell%s%al%?Id<%Id|Unknown Album |%D2 >%arAlbum
20:27:43DBUGEnqueued KICK Tyronemaskell
20:27:43Tyronemaskell%s%al%?It<%It|Unknown Title |%Fm >%arTitle
20:27:59Tyronemaskelli wanna see folder name too how do i do that
20:28:12HDognope, when I plug it into iRiver it doesn't know how much space there is
20:28:23HDogMSC? where
20:28:35HDogoh, u mean like an external HD?
20:28:47_AmblinLike a thumbdrive or something
20:28:48Sniper_Spikeok tyrone
20:29:01Sniper_Spikewhere do you want to see the folder name
20:29:06HDogyeah there're 2 ports I "data" and "Media", I always use Data
20:29:17Tyronemaskellabove artist
20:29:27HDogthik maybe I should try Media port?
20:29:32amiconn12 hours playing and the battery symbol is still showing "full" :-)
20:30:00amiconnI know the calibration is wrong, but still....
20:30:21_AmblinYeah, give it a shot
20:30:36 Join Apple-San [0] (i=44dc90da@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
20:30:51Tyronemaskellany idea Sniper_Spike
20:31:09HDognope, didn't work
20:31:38Apple-SanIs anyone who can give me write permission for the wiki online? >.>
20:31:41 Join Aikon [0] (
20:31:48Sniper_Spikehow much of the folder do you want Tyronemaskell?
20:31:53HDogI plugged it back into Data, it starts up, and PqMagic says 2,097,149.2MB unalocated
20:32:04_AmblinOk, what I am thinking is that you could use a 3rd party disk mangement software, since XP doesnt support sizes bigger than 32GB
20:32:12Sniper_Spikethe whole file path?
20:32:23Tyronemaskelljust the folders name
20:32:42Tyronemaskelllike black eyed peas
20:32:54Sniper_Spikeso artist folder?
20:32:56Tyronemaskellif thats whats next
20:33:01Sniper_Spikeor album folder?
20:33:14Sniper_Spikeand only for what's next?
20:33:24Tyronemaskellthe name of the folder in the root
20:33:33_AmblinHave you made a post on mysticriver, detailing the issues you have encountered?
20:33:59HDogAmblin: well I tried using Partition Magic, SwissKnife, and HD Low Level Format Tool
20:34:10HDognope not yet
20:34:21 Part Apple-San
20:34:25HDogfigured I'd give it a shot here first, maybe some one helps out
20:34:40_AmblinThose 3 eh, well then my idea is toast.
20:35:30Aikontoast = burned, not working
20:35:33_AmblinNo longer valid, seeing as you have already tried the method I was going to suggest.
20:36:13 Quit thegeek (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:36:18AikonAnyone up for my rather unusual prob?
20:36:25HDogI got an ipod too, somewhere, do u think I should try that?
20:36:46AikonI got no windows... So I can't patch the boot loader of my iriver....
20:36:50_AmblinFormatting your ipod?
20:37:10HDogput the drive into the iPod and try to format it via windows
20:37:16Tyronemaskellyeah that would be awesome
20:37:49_AmblinPossible it'd work..
20:38:31HDogproblem is, this website doesn't even have phone tech support, so returning will be tricky.. I'd need to be sure it's bad
20:38:41HDogwish I had another one handy
20:39:23_AmblinThe drive itself is most likely in find working order, its probably more an issue of incompatibility
20:39:35_Amblin...*fine* working...
20:39:43 Quit amigan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:40:10Sniper_SpikeTyronemaskell: looking at the wiki, I'm confused
20:40:32HDogbut if it doesn't work in iPod nor iRiver, what the heck is it compatible with :(
20:40:48Sniper_Spikeit says that "%d1" should represent the fist directory from end of file path
20:40:48Tyronemaskellwhy you confused
20:40:59Sniper_Spike"Example for the the %dN commands: If the path is "/Rock/Kent/Isola/11 - 747.mp3", %d1 is "Isola", %d2 is "Kent"... You get the picture."
20:41:05Sniper_Spikebut it's the opposite in that wps you sent me
20:41:07 Join Apple-San [0] (i=44dc90da@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
20:41:18_AmblinWell once the drive is shouldnt have any more issues..
20:41:37Sniper_Spikein your wps, %d1 is used for artist
20:41:43HDogyeah, wish I could format it though hehe
20:41:43Sniper_Spikewhen it should be album
20:41:55_AmblinId recommend you post at mystic, explain the problem and your idea involving the ipod
20:42:13 Quit perplexity (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:42:21Sniper_Spikeis there anybody more experianced with WPS that can help Tyrone here?
20:42:44HDogyup, guess I'll have to do that
20:43:06HDogI'll open up the ipod meanwhile anyway.. lets see what happens
20:43:17_AmblinBest of luck to you. :)
20:43:35TyronemaskellSniper_Spike bro thanx for all your help
20:43:43HDogthanks, I'll need it
20:43:47Tyronemaskelli will try see what i can do
20:43:58LearGah, that quote, from several years ago, still lives on. :)
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20:45:26 Part Apple-San
20:45:29HDogipod is opened, sticking the HD in :)
20:45:47Learamiconn: faad (the sbr bits) don't build with using gcc 4.1.x (.1 and .2 tested)...
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20:46:43HDogipod doesn't have a built-in format option does it?
20:46:59amiconnLear: What target?
20:47:22amiconnThen you already had more luck than me
20:47:25LearGet a "error: could not find a spill register"
20:47:42LearHad to patch system-confire.c though.
20:47:44amiconnI couldn't get 4.1.x for m68k to work at all
20:48:04amiconnThat was using binutils 2.17 though, maybe it works with 2.16.1
20:48:07LearI've tested binaries before, after disabling SBR, and it worked.
20:48:09preglowyou need to disable libssp or soemthing for 4.1.x to build, i think
20:48:16LearUsing 2.16.1 here.
20:48:23Learpreglow: That too, yes.
20:48:42amiconnpreglow: The compiler built fine, the -mXXXX passing to gas was the problem
20:49:51amiconnLooks like gcc's mode of operation also depends on binutils version...
20:50:02HDogohh.. but I thik Ipod has an internal testing utility that checks the HD
20:50:18preglowthe entire -m handling will change in 4.3
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20:53:10HDogvia iPod, windows detects this drive as 18.63GB dammit
20:53:27 Join My_Sic [0] (
20:53:43_Amblinformat it
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20:54:03merwinWhat was the USB stuff that you need to build e200tool? includes usb.h
20:54:27linuxstbmerwin: Yes.
20:54:59HDog"The format did not complete succesfully"
20:56:07HDogwas using Disk Management proggy (comes with XP)
20:57:06_Amblinill brb
20:57:26HDogthanks for trying to help btw!
20:58:35 Join webguest55 [0] (i=d4db3fe2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
20:59:15merwinhmm... I'm getting "Undefined reference to `usb_bulk_write' now
20:59:15 Quit webguest55 (Client Quit)
20:59:26merwintrying to build e200tool under cygwin
20:59:37merwininstalled libusb-win32
20:59:58_AmblinNo problem HDog, good luck.
21:01:22 Part Ice8lue
21:02:06donvitohey merwin
21:02:25donvitoare you trying to do the bl swap
21:02:38merwini have been... rhapsody to e200
21:02:54donvitocool, have you made any progress
21:03:14donvitoyea i need to install linux again so i can build e200tool
21:03:23donvitobecause i need to do the same thing
21:04:50merwindoubt it'll work
21:04:58merwinbut good luck :)
21:05:24donvitoyea, without modifying it, but i think with some modification to the e200 bl, the rhapsody will accept it
21:05:40merwinyou're going to try to modify it?
21:06:09 Join Nico_P [0] (
21:08:03donvitoill let bagder do that
21:08:10donvitoor mrh/ kptkill
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21:12:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:14:02merwindonvito: are you the one that converted the e200 to e200r and can't go back?
21:15:37 Quit thegeek (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
21:15:55donvitoi have an e260r
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21:44:01merwindonvito: I got windows so it finds the usb device (e200tool), but says invalid argument when trying to claim the interface
21:44:06merwini'm going to try a reboot
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21:52:06jac0bI am trying to install a theme where is the fonts folder
21:53:19linuxstbAny Sansa people around who know which key(s) are used to decrypt the original firmware for the E200? I can see "sansa" and "sansa_gh" - are they both possible?
21:53:54 Quit Farp ()
21:54:16netmasta10btgonna have to resolder the audio jack on my e260 again tonight :-/ −− anyone else have that prob?
21:55:53donvitolinuxstb: if im not mistaken gh stands for german/hebrew
21:56:04donvitoso use the other one if its eng fw
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21:58:43linuxstbdonvito: OK, so my install tool will need to check both keys...
21:59:31AikonAnyone there that can help me patching the H300 iriver bootloader please?
21:59:50 Quit jac0b ()
22:00:17AikonProb: Only running linux here, and the patch software doesn't work with wine.
22:00:20 Join LinusN [0] (i=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
22:00:30 Quit ompaulafk (Client Quit)
22:00:30donvitolinuxstb: cool
22:00:38donvitolinuxstb: i think what youre doing is sweet btw
22:00:43donvitolinuxstb: what are you coding it in
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22:01:25 Quit donvito ("Anacna "If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something"")
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22:08:14linuxstbdonvito: C
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22:09:13 Join DPic [0] (
22:09:50DPicThe manual instructs me to enter the following commands into the terminal after downloading ipodcatcher:
22:09:50DPic  cd $HOME
22:09:50DPic  chmod +x ipodpatcher
22:09:50DBUGEnqueued KICK DPic
22:09:50DPic  ./ipodpatcher
22:10:13DPicbut when i enter chmod +x ipodpatcher it says that the file or directory doesn't exist
22:10:24linuxstbWhere did you download ipodpatcher to?
22:10:32DPicmy desktop
22:10:36linuxstbThe manual says to save it into your home directory.
22:10:45 Join thegeek [0] (
22:10:53DPicokay let me try that
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22:16:57 Part DPic
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22:20:50donvitohey bagder
22:20:55DPiccan i remove the apple firmware from my ipod and just have rockbox?
22:20:56Bagdergood evening
22:22:22donvitoso i read that post about succesfully converting an e200 to an e200r
22:23:02Bagderyups, seems to work just fine
22:23:38donvitothats really cool, was it just a straight up bl and fw swap?
22:24:04 Part perl|work
22:24:04Bagderyeah, from e200 => e200R you can use the ordinary sansa "upgrade" method
22:24:13Bagdergoing back you need to e200tool it
22:24:30DPici think my connection just cut off for a minute−− can i remove the apple firmware from my ipod and just have rockbox?
22:25:10LinusNDPic: yes you can
22:25:44LinusNyou can install rockbox.ipod in the bootloader partition
22:26:02LinusNbut i don't know if the current ipodpatcher can do that anymore
22:26:05donvitoany ideas how this might be possible in reverse?
22:26:18LinusNdonvito: ???
22:26:29DPichow can i try it?
22:26:36donvitoLinusN: sorry i was talking with bagder
22:28:04linuxstbDPic: Type "./ipodpatcher -wf /path/to/rockbox.ipod"
22:28:15LinusNthere you go
22:28:42linuxstbBut if you do that, you'll need to do it every time you upgrade Rockbox. A better option might be to use the "-wf" option with the bootloader - you can download it from
22:29:04 Join midgey [0] (
22:30:35amiconnBagder: Does "going back" also mean that this method will work for a real R model?
22:32:58 Quit Bagder (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:33:47DPicokay so what do i type with the bootloader?
22:33:59DPici'm new to linux :\
22:35:32CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 1 hour and 42 minutes at the last flood
22:35:32*mattzz wonders about mixing CONTEXT_STD and CONTEXT_SETTINGS in debug_menu.c....
22:36:04*mattzz is stuck in some of the debug menu items with his sansa.
22:36:38LloreanDPic: You type the line linuxstb told you to type a few minutes ago, and a couple lines upward.
22:37:21DPicdo i replace rockbox.ipod with bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod or what?
22:38:28 Join Whopper [0] (i=whoppy@wikipedia/wossi)
22:38:37linuxstbDPic: Exactly that.
22:39:05 Part Whopper
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22:41:09 Quit K3nt1 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:42:11DPic[ERR] Couldn't open input file /path/to/bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod
22:42:46 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:44:37donvitohey merwin any luck?
22:45:17 Join Bagder [0] (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder)
22:45:43LinusNDPic: the "/path/to" is not to be taken verbatim, you are supposed to use the path to where the file is on your system
22:46:27DPicthis is what i entered ./ipodpatcher -wf /path/to/bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod
22:46:51DPicso i change the /path/to/
22:47:06DPicto the location on my ipod or on my computer?
22:47:06LinusNDPic: i bet 10 bucks that you don't have a directory called /path/to on your system :-)
22:47:28LinusNDPic: no, to the location of the file called "bootloader-ipodvideo.ipod"
22:47:46DPicshould the file be on my computer or my ipod?
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22:47:52donvitomerwin: hey any luck/
22:47:54donvitomerwin: ?*
22:48:05jac0bhas the usb been looked at on the sansa
22:48:32LinusNDPic: you should know, you have downloaded the file, haven't you?
22:48:41Bagderjac0b: we have a good idea on how to poke on it
22:48:43jac0bwith current-version windows says it failed to install the proper drivers for it
22:49:01Bagderjac0b: rockbox has no usb support on the sansa
22:49:01 Join SoapIsOutOfTown [0] (n=Soap@
22:49:06DPicokay i did it
22:49:29DPicnow what do i do to get rid of everything else?
22:49:35 Nick SoapIsOutOfTown is now known as Soap2 (n=Soap@
22:49:45jac0boh so windows just see it and doesn't know what to do with it
22:51:00jac0bif usb was working then you could just run rockbox by itself right?
22:51:52LloreanIf USB were working, there'd be no longer a necessity for dual boot on Sansa, I suppose.
22:53:43 Join eggy [0] (n=eggy@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/yorkcc.eggy)
22:53:46Bagderbut writing a usb mass-storage driver isn't just a coffee break hack
22:54:36Soap2it might take all lunch? ;)
22:55:06 Quit jac0b ()
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22:58:30_AmblinAll these talking adds are getting really annoying.
22:58:38preglowBagder: why oh why did you write in shell script :>
22:58:50BagderI have a damaged brain
22:59:07preglowBagder: would it be hard to hack support for using several patches in?
22:59:08Soap2as opposed to a .vbs or a .pl?
22:59:22preglowSoap2: perl would be my choice, i guess
22:59:28Bagderpreglow: not really, no
22:59:28preglowvbs only works on windows, after all
22:59:50Soap2that part was supposed to be a joke. :(
22:59:52preglowBagder: ok, i was having a look to fix the amd64 problem, but my shell coding skills are really poor
23:00:13Bagderpreglow: I've actually considered putting the patches in a subdirectory instead of downloading them too
23:00:15preglowSoap2: i suck too much to understand such subtleties
23:00:23preglowBagder: i think that's kind of good
23:00:31preglowBagder: the tool is in svn, after all
23:00:46Bagderthen we could just loop over all patches in a given directory or similar
23:00:47preglowBagder: yeah, definitely, i'd say do that
23:01:19preglowno chance of anyone altering the patches to install trojans or such either
23:02:07preglowBagder: in a related note, can every wiki user add/delete other users?
23:02:11Bagder"They (Rhapsody) have removed the ability to upgrade the BL (or the i2c bootrom) using the recovery mode"
23:02:32Bagderpreglow: uhm, I don't know
23:02:46preglowBagder: afaik, adding write privs for a user is just editing a page
23:02:58preglowBagder: in which case i guess revoking write privs is just deleting some text
23:03:28preglowand if all this is true, it's just a matter of time before someone comes along and revokes everyone's write privs...
23:03:48preglowit's not like we do extensive background checks on people before we let them have write privs
23:04:32LloreanWell it's not like that can really be limited much further anyway.
23:04:57LloreanUnless you create a list of people who get to add/remove from the write privileges list, and then wiki editing depends on a select few passing out permissions.
23:05:25LloreanThe public wiki-ness of our wiki is already slightly crippled by the extra step to get write access as it is.
23:05:28preglowLlorean: which should be a fairly quick deal, give it to any regular in the irc channel we know we can trust
23:05:59LloreanI suppose it's mostly just the regulars who hand out wiki write access anyway.
23:06:08merwindonvito: no luck... i have no clue how to build e200tool under cygwin :)
23:06:12LloreanBut what's different from someone removing all write access, compared to someone removing say... any other page?
23:06:26preglowLlorean: it's fixable without having to wait ages?
23:06:28Bagdermerwin: I don't think anyone has been able to use it under cygwin anyway
23:06:56merwinBagder: I got it to recognize the device, but it says could not get access to it, error 22 invalid parameter
23:07:05preglowLlorean: imagine someone coming in on a weekend, revoking all write privs to everyone but themselves, and then planting malicious code in the downloadables
23:07:06Lloreanpreglow: Another solution would to be simply to have a second, uneditable 'write access' page so that more people will permanently be able to revert the user group page if it's damaged.
23:07:12preglowLlorean: it might be days until someone with server access came along
23:07:26Bagdermerwin: use linux, in a vmware image or with a live CD distro or similar. far easier and known to work fine
23:07:32LloreanInstead of requiring a regular to hand out write access, make sure some of us have unrevocable write access.
23:08:02merwinBagder: Yeah, but it's a pain to copy files back and forth... the vmware image i got doesn't have shared drives
23:08:21Bagdermerwin: so don't, have them all in the linux side
23:08:50*Bagder got a "BL_SD_boardSupportSD.cracked"
23:09:03merwinBagder: what does the cracked one do?
23:09:22Bagderit is the e200R BL, patched to load dummy-signed mi4 files
23:09:39preglowLlorean: also good
23:09:39merwinBagder: Sweet... how do you install it?
23:09:47Bagdermerwin: using e200tool
23:09:48 Part DPic
23:09:53Bagderand 22 fingers crossed
23:09:55preglowLlorean: whatever would prevent the scenario i mentioned to happen would be just cool by me
23:10:00merwinBagder: e200tool recover?
23:10:16merwinBagder: will it also load e200 mi4 files?
23:10:22Lloreanpreglow: I pretty much agree, honestly. I just like to think of alternative solutions. :)
23:11:25Bagdermerwin: only if you dummy-sign it and make sure it has the R model magic built-in
23:11:43Bagderthe important thing to me is that it would load rockbox
23:12:37merwinBagder: So, if you put the rockbox firmware on it, would the OF.bin be able to be e200 firmware? or does it have to be R firmware?
23:12:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:13:08 Join peppo [0] (
23:13:08Bagdercurrently we haven't been able to run the R firmware from our bootloader
23:13:18peppoany 5.5g devs around?
23:13:23Bagderso it would need to be the vanilla e200 one
23:13:29LinusNpeppo: i'm here
23:13:45peppoLinusN, is there any working code to test for curious folk?
23:13:52LinusNpeppo: not really
23:13:55merwinBagder: Neato... where can i get this patched one?
23:14:08Bagdermerwin: I should warn you that we don't know that putting that cracked one or the e200 BL one will not destroy your sansa
23:14:50 Join mirak [0] (
23:14:55bluebrother"cracked" sounds ... evil
23:15:00 Part peppo ("part")
23:15:18merwinBagder: But if you can go e200 to e200r successfully, chances are good that going the other way would work
23:15:29Bagdermaybe I should call it "modified" isntead
23:15:38Bagdermerwin: I agree
23:15:43preglowslightly less illegal sounding
23:16:06bluebrotherwho modified it? MrH?
23:18:14merwinBagder: i was playing around with the code, and i think the problem i'm running into with the lines on the top of the screen are due to the display init.... if i comment that out so it doesn't init the display, and then boot to OF.bin, no lines... if i put it back in and boot to OF.bin, lines on top
23:18:19merwinBagder: what's that hex?
23:18:26Bagdermd5sum of that file
23:18:39Bagderkind of neat if it is complete if you try this ;-)
23:19:19merwini like to live dangerously
23:19:29 Join stripwax [0] (
23:21:51Bagderbluebrother: I read the sansa install section in the manual and a little nit struck me
23:22:17Bagderit is the same as in the ipod nano: the reference to "hard disk" is really... somewhat odd-looking to me
23:22:39bluebrotherah, right ;-)
23:23:04bluebrotherso better call it flash disk there ...
23:23:07Bagderi guess we can see and call it a "disk" as it appears like that, but not a hard disk
23:23:59peturthose flash chips sure look hard to me
23:24:11*Bagder smacks petur
23:24:18bluebrothersave the file to your hard chips?
23:24:24*petur feels he deserved it
23:29:13 Quit Frode_ ("Leaving")
23:30:43bluebrotherBagder: change committed
23:31:33 Quit obo ("bye")
23:31:55 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
23:36:40bluebrotheroh, I found something today ... I flashed my iriver, and updated the build on disk. As the plugin API version changed I can't show the version number anymore
23:37:06bluebrotheris there a reason why the logo isn't called before the plugin itself?
23:37:23BagderI don't think so
23:39:31 Quit ompaul ("UFO - what a rock band :)")
23:39:41bluebrotherok. Maybe I'll find some time to create a patch ... someone gimme some tiiiime!
23:40:02Bagderok, you get... 4 hours from me, starting.... now!
23:40:11 Quit petur ("sssssssssss---------PLOP!")
23:40:34bluebrotherdamn. I'm quite tired now :o
23:46:12merwinlinux definitely isn't "user friendly" :) On the bright side, i got samba working, so i can transfer files back and forth
23:47:31 Quit juxtap (Connection timed out)
23:47:38 Quit printfXh4 (No route to host)
23:48:16pixelmais there a way to revert to a certain revision while keeping local changes?
23:49:34merwinBagder: OK, i did the recover with the patched bootloader, and held down REC, now i just copy the rockbox firmware?
23:49:52bluebrotherpixelma: you could svn diff > changes and then reapply after going back to current svn
23:50:12Bagdermerwin: disconnect first and see if things still work as expected
23:50:12bluebrotheror try if svn keeps changes ;-)
23:50:37Bagderpixelma: 'svn up -r[num]'
23:50:51merwinBagder: AHHH!!! It immediately shuts off! And it displays a mysterious message Keypad locked
23:51:04bluebrotherBagder: does that keep local changes?
23:51:14Bagdersvn update keeps local changes even when you use -r, yes
23:51:22merwinBagder: Yeah, it boots the R firmware fine still
23:51:35Bagdermerwin: nice!
23:51:41pixelmaBagder: thanks! ...but will diff anyways (as backup) :)
23:51:48merwinBagder: the R firmware is so much nicer... anti-aliasing and all
23:51:54Bagderpixelma: a good idea
23:52:09*Llorean can't imagine WANTING to use the Sansa firmware.
23:52:37Bagdermerwin: you could also just test to dummy-sign the OF mi4 file and upgrade to that, as a test
23:52:48 Join andrew867 [0] (
23:53:06merwinBagder: Im not sure how to do that
23:53:25Bagderyou mean dummy-sign?
23:53:52Bagder"mi4code sign original.mi4 newone.mi4 dummy"
23:53:59merwinoh, easy
23:54:08merwindummy sign an e200 firmware?
23:54:24Bagderno, the e200R one
23:54:25andrew867looking at lines: pp_i2c_send(AS3514_I2C_ADDR, DAC_L, 0x60); and pp_i2c_send(AS3514_I2C_ADDR, DAC_R, 0x10); what do each of the DAC_L and DAC_R do exactly?
23:54:46Bagdermerwin: there's more than so required in order to boot the vanilla e200 one
23:55:19Bagdermerwin: but of course you can try to e200tool recover the vanilla e200 BL and then run the plain e200 mi4
23:55:39Bagdernow when all limits have been crossed already ;-)
23:55:46 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
23:55:50andrew867oh and btw i'm pretty sure the LV24020LP chip in the e200 is connected to either a couple of the GPIOs or the I2C bus
23:56:11andrew867i'm trying to find more infor about the "3-wire bus" it uses
23:57:14 Join SirFunk [0] (
23:57:27merwinBagder: So to test the dummy, i just boot into the recovery mode (hold down REC) and copy it over?
23:57:36andrew867 is another datasheet
23:57:49Bagdermerwin: you can even use the normal usb mode, but otherwise yes
23:57:55merwinok, ill use normal usb mode
23:58:05 Quit atsea- (Remote closed the connection)

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