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#rockbox log for 2007-03-15

00:00:23 Join Soap2 [0] (n=Soap@
00:00:36jhMikeSandrewg867: you get this flipflop mono/stereo thing in svn on the sansa? radio works on it?
00:01:15andrewg867I get a flipflop when playing mp3s or flac, and I dont think there is even a radio chip driver yet
00:01:23 Quit Rob222241 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:01:24roolkuamiconn: I don't think it would annoy him more to press one button then it does annoy me to go through endless menus to find the setting screen :)
00:01:36nlsBagder: works like a charm in the sim :-) (i don't have an actual h100 to try on)
00:01:42roolkubut no problem, I'll just keep it in my local build
00:01:43andrewg867its pretty hard to explain, i will try to record it with audacity and see how that works
00:01:52StryikDoes anybody here use a Color/Photo iPod
00:01:59amiconnPressing one extra button every boot surely is annoying
00:02:08Bagdernls: language files should be pretty safe to test in the sim, so I'll proceed and commit. Thanks for testing
00:02:13roolkuamiconn: no, only after power loss
00:02:32amiconnYou say it would pop up if no valid time is set
00:02:59amiconnAnd someone who doesn't care about rtc would press Stop, hence not set a valid time...
00:03:22roolkuamiconn: yes, but pressing the set button would set the build date at 0:00:00 which is valid
00:03:24amiconnShowing a wrong time is worse than just showing −−:−− imo
00:03:52roolkuamiconn: the RTC will do that after a while anyway (on gigabeat)
00:03:55amiconnroolku: Yes it's valid - and would advance and show up in the status bar, but would be wrong
00:04:25bluebrothera user who doesn't care about the time most probably will turn showing it off.
00:04:29roolkuamiconn: yes, but that would happen anyway, just with another wrong time
00:04:49amiconnWth the current setup you're free to decide whether and when to set the time & date. I would not like forcing the user to do that
00:05:37jhMikeSpreglow: you'll give it check gagin when I straighten it out?
00:05:39amiconn...and it would confuse blind users, as already said
00:05:47roolkuand as I said, that is fine with me :)
00:06:08preglowjhMikeS: sure
00:06:16preglowjhMikeS: just highlight me and i'll check itout
00:06:17 Quit thegeek (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
00:06:19linuxstbroolku: Maybe the main problem is simply that the date/time setting is hidden too deeply in the menus...
00:06:27amiconnroolku: Ask our blind users on the ml, I'm sure they'll disagree
00:06:52roolkuamiconn: sorry - disagree with what?
00:06:55bluebrotherI'd rather like an option to turn of showing the time in the status bar ...
00:07:04amiconnroolku: On archos recorders, the screen would e.g. pop up after swapping batteries... which is a regular operation for some users
00:07:20roolkulinuxstb: yes, that was what prompted me, the extra hassle of setting the time
00:07:29amiconnroolku: Disagree with being surprised by an extra screen at startup
00:07:38linuxstbroolku: Then it sounds like the wrong solution - fixing the settings menus would be better.
00:08:10 Join g8se [0] (
00:08:11jhMikeSSame patch on x5 (just rebuilt) doesn't do that stuff...very weird
00:08:23bluebrothershouldn't the settings be more flat anyway? Like move everything below the "general settings" one level up?
00:08:24roolkulinuxstb: well, it is rarely used, so you don't want it near the root...
00:08:29amiconn40 hours and counting...
00:08:45linuxstbbluebrother: I think so, yes.
00:09:06linuxstbroolku: I think it's possible to have everything nearer the root now that "settings" is its own menu.
00:09:11roolkuamiconn: I am still not sure what you are arguing with regards to the blind: "[22:59] <roolku> amiconn: yes. that might be confusing for them"
00:09:21bluebrotherroolku: implement a "Favorites" menu and put the setting there ;-)
00:09:35 Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection)
00:09:49g8seHi, are Llorean or Bagder on channel at the moment? I've got a H10 issue I'd like to chat about
00:09:53*jhMikeS predicts the M5 will shutoff sometime on friday and saturday
00:09:58markunWhy is it so difficult for some people to install rockbox on a Gigabeat..
00:10:09markunjust copying 1 file and unzipping another..
00:10:16roolkubluebrother: I think I stick with my patch that is ideal for me, but I accept that it can be inconvenient for others
00:10:21nlsmarkun: because people can't read documentation?
00:10:21*linuxstb refuses to write a gigabearpatcher...
00:10:26*jhMikeS never got to try installing it since his already had it :P
00:10:31linuxstbOr even gigabeatpatcher...
00:10:32Bagderg8se: I'm around
00:10:42nlswhat's a gigabear? ;_)
00:10:42pixelmalinuxstb: petur would like it ;)
00:10:53g8seBagder: great. aliask recommended I chat to you about a usb issue I'm having
00:11:02pixelmaoh no... thought it was giabeer
00:11:04g8seBagder: is now a good time?
00:11:25pixelmaerrrr ... gigabeer even...
00:11:28 Join Soap2_ [0] (n=Soap@
00:11:37linuxstbpixelma: Now you've triggered him...
00:11:43Bagderg8se: I'm not sure I'm the man for h10 problems, but shoot and we'll find out
00:11:59 Quit Stryik ()
00:12:06 Quit Soap2 (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
00:12:07markunI wonder if flashing a bootloader will make it easier or more dangerous for them to install rockbox
00:12:11 Nick Soap2_ is now known as Soap2 (n=Soap@
00:12:54 Join annulus_ [0] (
00:13:06andrewg867hmm, i get pops in the sansa audio when doing something intense like when jewels first down the jewels when you create a new game
00:13:19g8seBagder: ok, so I've got rockbox installed with the bootloader, and dual booting (though I haven't tested OF since installing rockbox). I'm finding that usb sync isn't working for me. When I plug in usb I do get a small usb icon on the player, but the linux kernel shows some time out errors in the kern.log
00:13:27andrewg867wha, i suck at english today
00:13:39 Quit valiant (Nick collision from services.)
00:13:52andrewg867when jewels first lays down the icons in the play field
00:13:52g8seBagder: aliask suggested holding the right button down when pluggin in usb, and that did make it act a little different, but it didn't make it work
00:13:58 Quit ender` (" According to the FAA, the propeller blade didn't break off, it was just a case of "uncontained blade liberation."")
00:14:31 Join Rob2222 [0] (
00:14:31nlsbluebrother: I once asked here wheter initialize or initialise is correct British english and apparently both are so I think we sould remain consistent in the manual with the form used in the user interface.
00:14:44 Join donvito [0] (
00:14:49Bagderg8se: rockbox has no usb support on hte h10
00:14:52 Join Stalwart^ [0] (
00:15:02 Nick _pill is now known as pill (
00:15:12g8seBagder: drat
00:15:14bluebrothernls: I just asked aspell, and that considered initialise to be correct
00:15:28bluebrothermight be wrong tough.
00:15:36 Quit ]RowaN[ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:15:38 Quit My_Sic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:15:41linuxstbnls: I think I told you initialise was British, but after some research I discovered that initialize is the traditional British spelling, but that British people (incorrectly) think its the American form, so avoid it....
00:15:53g8seBagder: is usb support planned at all? aliask was wondering if it would work, because it's the same cpu as the ipod or something, but wasn't sure.
00:16:17Bagderg8se: planned and wanted sure, but it is quite some piece of code to write
00:16:26toffe82markun: the install of rockbox on the gigabeat with rbutils is really easy, people should use it
00:16:36g8seBagder: do you have to implement a full/partial usb stack?
00:16:46nlsbluebrother, linuxstb
00:16:49Bagderg8se: and rockbox has no usb support on the ipods or sansa either (all being portalplayer targets)
00:17:16toffe82markun: the version with the themes is even better, now I us only this to load rockbox even to update
00:17:49Bagderg8se: yes, we need to implement a good deal of the upper level usb code, I'm actually not sure exactly how much
00:17:54andrewg867 at about 23 seconds in
00:17:55g8seBagder: oh well. I was hoping for that to work, because I've been having problems transfering large runs of files with the OF.
00:17:59Arathisg8se: usb is supported by the original iriver bootloader on the h10. so if the player is shut down and you plug the usb cable in than use the ums trick to connect your player (hold down O while it boots and until it says "recovery mode")
00:18:14g8seArathis: yeah, I know about the ums trick
00:18:16nlsbluebrother: anyway, it doesn't really matter what we use its' not like someone will complain that they can't find the "initialise" option only the "initialize"...
00:18:30g8seArathis: but like I said, I get problems with the player locking up if I transfer lots of files
00:18:43linuxstbI thought the UI was meant to be British English as well?
00:18:46Arathisif your player is running holding down O while plugging in the usb cable reboots the player
00:18:57g8seArathis: I suspect the OF has some bugs in it's ums support
00:19:05 Quit BigMac (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
00:19:13g8seArathis: so I can get into ums mode, and thats how I installed rockbox in the first place
00:19:38g8seArathis: either OF firmware has bugs, or my kernel version doesn't play nice with it (running 2.6.8, as thats what is in Debian Sarge)
00:19:50andrewg867oh and it was worse until i turned up the buffer to 30sec
00:20:26linuxstbandrewg867: All portalplayer targets struggle to play some music in realtime, especially if you're doing other things with the CPU as well.
00:20:56 Join BigMac [0] (
00:21:20bluebrotherah. I can choose between en_GB-ise and en_GB-ize. Seems en_GB defaults to en_GB-ise ;-)
00:21:43andrewg867linuxstb: what would you call that thing that happened, I dont really know what happens
00:21:50nlslinuxstb: yes, I think that the UI is supposed to be British but people don't really stop to think "hmm, is this British or Amercian spelling?" when they add stuff
00:21:57bluebrothernls: thanks for clearing this up, wasn't aware of that. But I might not be the best about distinguision between AE and BE ;-)
00:22:32nlsbluebrother: I didn't know before asking here either :-)
00:22:35annulus_I just installed the current build on my Ipod Color, and its frozen four times in a row, first on going into info, then after initialising the database and trying to shut down, then trying to browse the database, and now it seems to have frozen on the start up screen.
00:22:46annulus_i'm guessing this is not a software issue?
00:22:50linuxstbnls: In a case like -ise/-ize, it seems we could argue that both are British, so I would make the manual consistent with the UI.
00:22:50bluebrotherit would be good to agree on one of the two and add a command line for aspell to the ManualHowto ;-)
00:22:57nlsannulus_: update bootloader
00:23:04 Part g8se
00:23:04Arathisg8se: I had no problems with that. running ubuntu and allways connecting with ums trick though rockbox resets the player every time
00:23:35pixelmanls: thinking about changing this in the lang cleanup? ;)
00:24:15nlspixelma: maybe it depends on which form we want to use, IMO it doesn't matter as long as we're consistent
00:24:47preglowlinuxstb: -ise is british
00:24:54nlsI mean that if we want to use ize, nothing will need to be changed
00:25:02nlsI think...
00:25:05linuxstbandrewg867: No, your recording sounds different to the normal problems.
00:25:10preglowlinuxstb: afaik, -ize is originally an american construct
00:25:16linuxstbpreglow: Did you read the wikipedia article nls linked to?
00:25:23preglowlinuxstb: didn't even see the url
00:25:51annulus_nls, url?
00:25:52pixelmanls: sure I'm all for consistency... so what's the decision now
00:26:23preglowlinuxstb: interesting
00:26:25 Quit BigMac ("Leaving")
00:26:27nlsannulus_: just follow the instructions for installing a bootloade rin the manual, and it will update it
00:26:38 Join BigMac [0] (
00:26:42nlspixelma: I don't know...
00:27:00annulus_nls, I did, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to boot rockbox, no?
00:27:09 Quit secleinteer (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:27:29nlsyes, but do it again with a newer version of ipodpatcher ,unless you did it very recently
00:27:30preglowlinuxstb: problem with pointing out stuff like this to me is that i now have to change the way i write...
00:27:33annulus_-rw-r−−r−− 1 ap ap 399417 Mar 14 18:36 ipodpatcher.dmg
00:27:42preglowespecially with my francophobic tendencies
00:28:07bluebrotherpreglow: why not just write as before and aspell it afterwards?
00:28:25preglowbluebrother: works badly with irc
00:28:37bluebrotherhehe ... good point.
00:28:37pixelmanls: same problem as "Key Lock" vs. "Keylock" - the discussion earlier didn't help me a lot with a decision
00:28:40nlsannulus_: so your bootloader doesn't show any text when you start your ipod? ie apple logo->rockbox logo wiith no text displayed in between
00:28:57bluebrotherbut what was that quote ... "the world language is not english. It's bad english"
00:29:05bluebrotherstill one of my favourites
00:29:35annulus_nls, well I got it started now. before it froze at the splash screen. before that it froze when i tried to shut down rockbox after initialising the database...
00:29:40andrewg867wow this GPIO bit banging is way over my head, i'm still going to try to get something at least half working
00:29:57annulus_froze on the Shutting Down... screen
00:29:59andrewg867are there any other radio chips that rockbox works with that use GPIOs?
00:30:12 Quit Stalwart (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:30:27nlsannulus_: then you have the old frequency change problem, look for a "noscaling" build in the Unsupported builds section in the forum
00:30:31 Join Shaid [0] (
00:30:55nlspixelma: yes it's difficult to decide
00:31:19 Part toffe82
00:31:35 Quit BigMac (Remote closed the connection)
00:31:37linuxstbOr we just switch to American English, they seem to have made things simple....
00:32:05bluebrotherwould require changing the manual, but using aspell that wouldn't be too much work
00:32:45 Join cynicalliberal [0] (
00:32:53jhMikeSpreglow: it was just yet another dumb little c mistake
00:32:56*preglow chains himself to the manual
00:33:18nlswe'we got a manual-hugger people!
00:33:29jhMikeSI was using sizeof on an array parameter to a function :P
00:34:06preglowjhMikeS: and i wish you luck with that
00:34:58jhMikeSit's working now...can post the patch now
00:35:43linuxstbAnyway, back to the manual, maybe we should decide on a definitive source - e.g. the Oxford English Dictionary, which would mean -ize.
00:37:05linuxstbbluebrother: Does aspell support en-GB-oed ?
00:37:51bluebrotherit lists en_GB-ize and en_GB-ise but not en_GB-ode
00:38:05 Join webguest72 [0] (i=d15ec984@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:38:06 Join BigMac [0] (
00:38:38webguest72Hello good night all
00:39:22webguest72i have a question regarding tagnavi_custom.config
00:39:31webguest72why is there a limit to how big i can make the file?
00:39:54amiconnandrewg867: Many drivers in rockbox do bitbanging on GPIO. That includes radio drivers
00:40:10andrewg867hmm...well then, that makes life easier :)
00:40:39 Quit ALTNICK (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:40:42andrewg867doesnt the sansa LCD connect via GPIO?
00:40:50bluebrotherwebguest72: because the file needs to get loaded to somewhere and we don't have an arbitrary amount of memory?
00:41:49 Quit robin0800 ("Now if you will excuse me, I have a giant ball of oil to throw out my window")
00:42:04preglowjhMikeS: works better now, yes
00:42:41webguest72i'm not sure i understand the memory limitations....but is there any workaround?
00:43:55nlswebguest72: increase the buffer size and build your own rockbox or convince someone to commit your change :-)
00:44:21bluebrotherhehe ... the hardest part will be the convincing ;-)
00:44:22preglowjhMikeS: great deal of presets with static
00:44:41 Join jac0b [0] (
00:44:58webguest72or perhaps i ought to rephrase...i have found that putting in a high number of sub-menus causes the database to not load properly
00:45:00jhMikeSpreglow: What ratio?
00:45:06preglowjhMikeS: easily half
00:45:09linuxstbwebguest72: If you can compile your own version of Rockbox, you can increase the limits by modifying the values in the apps/tagtree.h file (I think, I don't know that code at all)
00:45:15webguest72just to make sure we are on the same page
00:45:28webguest72ohh..i see
00:45:33merwinBagder: Would it be possible to have rockbox boot the OF.bin when you plug in the USB cable?
00:45:41webguest72tagtree.h you say...
00:45:56preglowjhMikeS: some are very weak versions of the next preset in the lsit
00:46:02preglow0.1 to 0.15 mhz from it
00:46:08webguest72sadly, i shall have to go learn how to compile code now...
00:47:00jhMikeShmmm...I did bias towards hitting _a few_ false ones rather than missing good ones. That works for me here but sensitivity should obviously be tuned.
00:47:15preglowi don't mind too much anyway
00:47:31preglowlike you say, i'd rather have a few false ones than miss a few good ones
00:48:04jhMikeShalf is too much though. Your band has .05 MHz steps, right?
00:49:12bluebrotherlinuxstb: aspell −−help also lists the installed dictionaries
00:49:12 Quit webguest72 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
00:50:43 Quit BigD ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
00:50:49donvitomerwin: hey, ahve you figured out anything new?
00:51:47*bluebrother discovers the time and is out for sleep now. See you tomorrow.
00:51:49jhMikeSI get a few false hits using Europe band here but not many. Not sure if where you're at strong stations are closer to background than here.
00:51:58 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
00:52:37merwindonvito: I think i bricked my e200r
00:52:38linuxstbmerwin: Yes, it _should_ be possible to load the OF firmware when USB is connected, but the Rockbox feature to do that (rolo - rockbox loader) doesn't yet succeed in doing that.
00:53:05 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
00:53:22linuxstbIt's a general portalplayer problem - we can start the OF from the bootloader, but not from a running Rockbox.
00:53:23donvitomerwin: no way :[
00:53:34donvitomerwin: what happened??
00:54:46merwindonvito: I tried writing the i2c rom to it using Bagders method, just to see what would happen.
00:55:01preglowjhMikeS: you just mean transmitter strength?
00:55:03merwindonvito: Now, it doesnt turn on at all.. i press power and the blue light flashes for about 1/8 second
00:55:09merwindonvito: And no blue ring
00:55:21merwindonvito: I have to power it off with 15 second power
00:55:26preglowjhMikeS: probably, smaller place, this
00:55:43preglowjhMikeS: so how's the detection work?
00:55:44merwindonvito: e200tool will still recognize it, but does nothing when i try to get into recovery mode with it
00:55:49jhMikeSI lowered the ADC level by one and fudged the IF counter values
00:55:59jhMikeSdetection? :\
00:56:02preglowjust measure band signal power?
00:56:17preglowpilot tone probably, then
00:56:20 Quit Soap2 ("Chatzilla 0.9.76 [Firefox]")
00:56:43 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@
00:56:45jhMikeSYou have an raw ADC strength indication and an IF counter value that measure the intermediate frequency
00:56:58 Nick Stalwart^ is now known as Stalwart (
00:57:11jhMikeSThe ADC level diff between high and low side injection should also be less than a certain threshold
00:57:42pearldiverwhat are the updates in the new gigabeat bootloader?
00:57:52lostlogicwhy does my ipod keep going to disk mode a few seconds after I plug in USB even if I was holding down menu when I plugged USB?
00:58:14andrewg867doing "GPIOH_OUTPUT_EN |= 0x80;" sets GPIO H pin 1 to output right?
00:59:50preglownothing beats radio noise
01:01:27jhMikeSpreglow: the thresholds are in tuner_philips.c at the top...could try setting ADC_LEVEL to 5
01:01:58jhMikeSMIN_IFC to 0x31 and MAX_IFC to 0x3e too
01:02:14preglowjhMikeS: can't now, found a nice channel :>
01:03:36preglowjust the right mix of modulation noise and classical piano music :P
01:03:52 Join Abcminiuser [0] (i=83ac630f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:04:37jhMikeScould enhance that experience
01:06:26jac0bis todays daily build for the sansa have any changes
01:06:53 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (n=thunderc@
01:08:07nlsok, quick c question' could i turn this if (button & BUTTON_LEFT) into a case in a switch thingy
01:08:58linuxstbI don't think you can - button is a bitmask, so can have lots of different values at the same time.
01:08:59andrewg867jac0b: not that I know of, just check the SVN commit log
01:09:12nlslinuxstb: ah, ok
01:09:17linuxstbjac0b: Every daily build has a changelog file..
01:09:26nlslot's of if's is the way to go then
01:09:28andrewg867that works too :x
01:09:55linuxstbjac0b: Or as andrewg867 said, just look at the front page of the website for recent changes...
01:10:30andrewg867linuxstb: for the sansa FM chip, the data line is input and output, I would just set the OUTPUT_EN to 0 and then INPUT_EN to 1 to switch?
01:11:25andrewg867and do you think "GPIOH_OUTPUT_VAL |= (1<<4);" would work for setting pin 4 on H to output?
01:11:29 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
01:12:39linuxstbandrewg867: I don't know about your first question, but it sounds logical to me. The answer is yes to your second question.
01:13:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:13:29amiconnAfaik GPIOx_OUTPUT_VAL selects the output *value* (high or low) when output is enabled
01:14:39andrewg867so according to the text file, this should work for init of the clock:
01:14:42andrewg867GPIOH_OUTPUT_VAL |= (1<<4); /* Clock high */
01:14:45andrewg867GPIOH_OUTPUT_EN |= (1<<4); /* Change Clock to output */
01:14:46 Quit Moos ("Quitte")
01:14:47andrewg867GPIOH_ENABLE |= (1<<4); /* Enable the Clock line */
01:15:01jhMikeSpreglow: scanning is slower because without a long enough timeout, ADC levels won't be correct
01:15:04 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
01:15:54preglowjhMikeS: not a biggie by any means
01:15:55linuxstbI don't think that's the case - maybe the #defines are misleading.
01:16:06linuxstb^names of the #defines
01:16:19jhMikeStakes 27ms after a write operation for the IF couter result to be ready
01:16:46 Quit jac0b ()
01:16:48 Quit Abcminiuser ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
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01:17:50jhMikeSpreglow: just that I think false hits of around 50% are _way_ too much...not the way I want it working at all for anyone anywhere
01:18:03jhMikeS5-10% is acceptable
01:19:51 Quit Thundercloud__ (Connection timed out)
01:23:15Stalwartdoes rockbox play .xm already?
01:23:28*linuxstb sleeps
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01:24:32 Quit webguest32 (Client Quit)
01:24:39*jhMikeS would just like preglow to try a scan with MIN_ADC_LEVEL set to 5 or even 6 and give the results
01:25:03eggydoes rockbox do video on ipod(s) (nano first gen maybe?) :s
01:27:07preglowjhMikeS: and give up this lovely piano-and-static??
01:27:10Stalwartit does, but without video
01:27:21preglowi guess i could commit this one sacrifice
01:27:24Stalwarterr, without audio
01:27:50merwinwho here got sansapatcher to boot 1.03 firmware?
01:27:52merwini forgot :)
01:28:04merwinwith rockbox
01:28:07jhMikeSpreglow: you can come back to it =:)
01:28:57preglowjhMikeS: change min_ifc and max_ifc too?
01:29:21nlseggy, Stalwart: mpegplayer plays video with audio but it is still in a very early start and doesn't refill the memory when what was initially buffered is played, which makes it able to play only a couple of minutes of video, ad sync isn't reliable...
01:29:22jhMikeSMaybe not for a first run but the philips recommended values are 0x31 and 0x3e
01:30:04eggyis that an addon?
01:30:11jhMikeSMight work better with narrower bands but it needs better rejection here
01:30:24andrewg867merwin: I did i think
01:30:25nlseggy: no, it's included
01:31:18preglowand now i found a great world-music station too!
01:31:22preglowi need to like less genres of music
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01:31:58preglowjhMikeS: found less channels no, from 39 to 36, still a lot of static here and there
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01:32:56andrewg867what exactly does "
01:33:00andrewg867write 8 bits LSB first" mean?
01:33:04preglowweird... one channel has one channel, plus a roughly 250ms delayed version of itself, overlayed with yet another channel
01:33:05 Part Brunellus ("Ex-Chat")
01:33:12andrewg867LSB being least significant bit?
01:33:13Stalwartand what about .xm plugin? i heard someone is working on it
01:33:16jhMikeSwith just higher ADC levels?
01:33:31preglowjhMikeS: with just adc level 5, will try 6 now
01:33:39preglowi wonder where the hell this echo comes from
01:33:51andrewg867probably metallic FM wave reflection
01:34:05preglowandrewg867: that wouldn't give an audible echo
01:34:09preglowa flanger, at best
01:34:13nlsStalwart: there is a mod player in the tracker, maybe it can handle xm?
01:34:26andrewg867I think i read about too much random stuff ;p
01:34:32Stalwarti'll try this evening
01:34:46Stalwartand now i'm going to sleep =P
01:34:55*jhMikeS can fudge the IFC levels narrower and wider too
01:35:08preglowfor this to yield an echo, it'd have to bounce off the moon or something
01:35:36andrewg867maybe the FM chip is just weird on some off frequencies
01:35:38nlspreglow: maybe you pick it up from another transmitter
01:36:08preglownls: possibly, with the signal being delayed pre-transmit
01:36:13preglowfar more likely
01:36:38andrewg867its a wonder why sandisk just didnt use an I2C fm chip
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01:37:28jhMikeSthe FM chip is a tricky thing to get to scan right. the IFC levels are what philips says to use, I just had the ADC level one below high sensitivity
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01:38:08blacknessis it possible to continue to play music when looking for a different song? i'm running under an ipod 5g
01:38:19preglowjhMikeS: okiedoke, adc level 6, 14 channels detected, 2 bogus
01:38:29preglowblackness: of course
01:38:36preglowblackness: just do it
01:38:49preglowblackness: the music won't stop unless you tell it to
01:38:49nlsblackness: just press menu in the wps and go to Files/Database
01:39:01merwinandrewg867: Do you know who wrote sansapatcher?
01:39:12jhMikeSpreglow: what about missed channels? You can try scan mode and see if any have no preset.
01:39:15nlsmerwin: linuxstb
01:39:47merwinnls: Ah, thanks. Do you know how to UPDATE the rockbox bootloader on it? Do you just use the -a option like youre adding a new one?
01:40:33nlsmerwin: I have no idea, but that is the way you do it with ipodpatcher...
01:40:46merwinnls: ok... probably the same then
01:40:58preglowjhMikeS: one so far
01:41:13merwinhow do you turn off 1.03?
01:41:14 Quit roolku ()
01:41:17merwinit seems to go into standby mode
01:41:50blacknessnls: Files isn't an option in the menu
01:41:54jhMikeSpreglow: was it an iffy one that depends on where the DAP is? That happens in the house where some stations come and go with location
01:42:06preglowgreat, who let the dogs out echoes over a screeching violin, backed up by bursts of noise
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01:42:48jhMikeSthat's a mashup :P
01:43:16andrewg867merwin: yeah the -a should work for updating it
01:43:18preglowa bona fide one too
01:43:23merwinandrewg867: good deal
01:43:33preglowmerzbow remixes bach
01:43:39merwinandrewg867: Do you just put the OF.bin of 1.03 into the system folder as well?
01:43:42merwinfor booting original firmware?
01:43:57andrewg867yeah, its working for me :)
01:44:28preglowjhMikeS: got a couple skipped at great quality, pretty invariant reception
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01:44:34webguest36hi, can anyone tell me what is the best player to run rockbox on? i have been looking at buying a gigabeat f40 but they seem to be discontinued..... is the port for it still being regually devoloped?
01:44:44andrewg867i'm stealing the LCD driver code for the FM driver, this is seeming like a fun project :)
01:45:17merwinandrewg867: are you sure you put the of.bin of 1.03 in there? I just tried it and it locks up trying to boot the original firmware
01:45:20preglowjhMikeS: yeah, a couple are crystal clear
01:45:42andrewg867merwin: where did it lock up?
01:45:42jhMikeSsounds like IFC needs adjusting for some areas too
01:45:49merwinandrewg867: when i held down the left arrow at boot
01:45:51preglowany suggestions?
01:45:56andrewg867merwin: make sure it's "OF.bin"
01:46:00preglowooh, phil collins
01:46:08merwinandrewg867: it is. It works fine if i put 1.02 in there... just if i use 1.03
01:46:13*jhMikeS wouldn't mind it skipping that
01:46:21andrewg867did you decrypt it with the new key?
01:46:36merwinandrewg867: it selected sansa-gh automatically
01:46:55merwinandrewg867: I cant do PMs cause im not registered :)
01:47:08preglowconway twitty and loretta lynn!
01:47:20andrewg867merwin: hehe, I can send you mine if you want to try
01:47:30merwinandrewg867: sure...
01:47:52andrewg867does it lock up at the rockbox loader or just a blank screen
01:47:57*jhMikeS will put in a detector to skip that too :)
01:48:20preglowcatchiest country song ever
01:49:10jhMikeSat least it's not "achey breakey heart"
01:50:10andrewg867oh god i hate that song
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01:50:14merwinandrewg867: thanks
01:50:23preglowdoesn't number among my favourites, no
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01:50:59andrewg867haha, i can remember when i was little and my dad threw that tape out of the car window on the highway :P
01:51:00newb3im thinking about putting rockbox on my iriver h10, does anyone mind if i ask some questions?
01:51:38merwinandrewg867: did you just use mi4code decrypt pp5022.mi4 OF.bin?
01:51:42Arathisnewb3: what questions? :)
01:51:53merwinon the H firmware?
01:52:19newb3if i put the firmware on my h10, will i have to eload any of the fles i have one there such as picture, music or text files?
01:52:50andrewg867merwin: mi4code decrypt -s pp5022.mi4 OF.bin
01:52:58newb3sorry about the bad spelling, im uing my laptop at a wierd angle
01:53:01andrewg867merwin: remember to use the -s option to strip the mi4 header
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01:53:04merwinandrewg867: it has to be stripped? Oh... :P
01:53:21webguest36so what player should i buy to run rockbox on?
01:53:30andrewg867merwin: hehe, i remember doing this the hard way
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01:55:12newb3to put the rockbox firmware on an iriver h10 20gb, would i have to replace any music files, pictures, test files etc.?
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01:58:39Arathisnewb3: no. installing rockbox doesn't overwright any existing files, just the /System/H10_20GB.mi4 (make a backup of that before installing!)
01:59:09jhMikeSx5 benfits much more than iRiver picking the correct injection side - that's a sound thing to do but having this auto scan just right is tricky business since I can't teleport to each region and tune it up
01:59:09preglowi didn't know bbc broadcasted around here
01:59:41jhMikeSguess the tuning is stronger now for that too :P
01:59:44andrewg867well, i'm going to bed now. g'night all
02:00:12preglowsignal's crystal clear, so has to be something close
02:00:33Arathisnewb3: you just need to build a new music database because rockbox has it's own.
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02:03:16*preglow wants am reception
02:03:43preglowpreferable in the short wave band :>
02:03:52jhMikeSI'm sure someone will post an AM radio mod at some point
02:05:41 Part safetydan
02:06:47preglowi look forward to carrying a big antenna around
02:07:05jhMikeSjust use the foil hat :p
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02:08:36blacknessI still can't figure out how to keep playing music and go select a different song, any help?
02:09:13merwinandrewg867: Thanks, that worked
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02:12:34nlsblackness: if Files isn't in the menu you are using an old version, just press select in the wps to go to whatever browser you are using (File browser/ database browser)
02:15:16jhMikeSpreglow: did you try fudging any of the IFC levels or are you getting sick of doing this? :) :\
02:15:24blacknesswhich install method should I be using?
02:15:51nlsfor installing what?
02:17:01blacknessthe bootloader, and should I use the current build? I have 5g ipod
02:17:38nlsto install the bootloader, use ipodpatcher and follow the instructions in the manual, and yes a current build is recomended
02:18:11blacknessthanks, will try
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02:21:42preglowjhMikeS: didn't try, no, didn't get any good values
02:21:50preglowi don't even know what they mean
02:23:52preglowgotta sleep soon now, anyway
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02:27:04preglowyeah, nighty
02:27:14nlsJdGordon: menu bug in case you're interested :-)
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02:28:50 Part blackness
02:29:03JdGordonnls: k, im headnig into uni now, bnut ill look this arvo
02:29:22nlsok, have fun :-)
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02:35:27annulus_nls, that worked, thanks!
02:41:00newb3how do i add plugins? (iriver h10 20gb)
02:41:32nlsnewb3: all the official plugins are already included
02:41:43newb3oh ok
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02:45:57newb3how do i change backgrounds and such?
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02:49:14nlsread the "Customising the userinterface" chapter in the manual, and what isn't mentioned there is fg/bg color which can be set through the settings menu and the themes, of which a few are included and lots more are available in the WPSGallery in the wiki
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03:15:33Murmur2kHi all - what has been happening to rockbox in the last year? Anything big in regards to ipods?
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03:19:29scorcheMurmur2k: MajorChanged wiki page
03:20:07scorcheMajorChanges i mean
03:22:37Murmur2kI'd love to come back to using Rockbox but want to wait for longer battery life on 5G Ipod :)
03:23:07scorchethe battery life is plenty long enough for me
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03:25:24Murmur2kAre there any podcast tools?
03:25:32Murmur2kfor getting them onto rockbox?
03:27:14scorcheim sure there are plenty
03:27:31scorchebut that isnt up to us....that is up to whatever program you get and use
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03:29:16Murmur2kfair enough
03:29:23Strogg'lo everyone
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03:30:16Murmur2kHow good are the co-processor changes?
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03:33:54StroggAha! it lives! I had thought that I had fragged my ipod but it turns out it's ok.
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04:45:19*JdGordon 's new toy came :D
04:45:43*aliask 's did too
04:45:53aliaskI have a zen vision m for 2 days
04:45:54webguest37whats the best player for running rockbox? i was going to get a gigabeat x40 but seems not released in europe :(
04:46:15JdGordonaliask: 2 days should be long enough to get the port to a usable state :D
04:46:29aliaskwebguest37: I would say the X series are the best, a lot of the ebay auctions from will ship to europe
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04:46:47aliaskJdGordon: With my 1337 h4xoring skillz
04:47:09JdGordonhow the heck do i cram 22gb of music ont 2gb?
04:47:23aliaskWith the delete key.
04:48:03aliask64bkit mp3 @ 22100hz
04:48:37Shaidmonoaural, too
04:48:41Shaid8 bit
04:48:49Shaidand only the middle of each song
04:48:57JdGordonits not like I even have flac's to get that much music :'(
04:49:09ShaidEh, I've got about 200gig of music.
04:49:17ShaidI keep my favourites on my ipod.
04:49:31aliaskJdGordon: I feel your pain, my music wouldnt fit on my old mp3 player so I bought a new one.
04:49:35Shaidof course, I rip to either v0 or flac, so uh, they're usually 120meg+ per cd.
04:49:51ShaidI need more storage space for my actual cds. :P
04:51:15aliaskI really wish I had a ZIF usb harddrive enclosure
04:51:29aliaskThe only one I've found would cost me $50AU before postage from france.
04:52:42ShaidI wish I had one too
04:52:47Shaidwell, i do, I guess
04:52:52Shaidit's my 20g 4g ipod.
04:52:53aliask5g ipod?
04:53:00Shaidsince it has a nonfunctional screen
04:53:01aliaskOh the 4g's are ZIF too?
04:53:08ShaidI dunno
04:53:19Shaiddo the newer ipods use a new connector
04:53:46aliaskNot sure if it's different, but it's a harddrive that doesn't have pins, it uses a ribbon cable instead
04:54:36Shaidguess it is different
04:54:49Shaidthe 4g has the 40ishpins then 4 more pins thingy
04:55:09aliaskYeah, that's not what I'm after unfortunately. Those are much cheaper to get.
04:55:09Shaidon the hdd end, anyway
04:55:15*Shaid cracks open the 4g.
04:55:21Shaidwhere's my guitar pick?
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05:03:14billytwowillyhi, there was a link on the wiki to a site with wps files on it and now I can't find that link.. any ideas?
05:04:03aliaskYou're welcome.
05:04:20*aliask thinks that site should be integrated into
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05:07:27JdGordonaliask: that was the origional intention iirc
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05:09:20JdGordondamn the scroller on the sansa takes some getting used to :p
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05:34:51JdGordonLlorean: you around?
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05:42:44JdGordonmorning linuxstb_
05:43:01JdGordon.. assuming thats you and not your comp logging in :p
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05:54:52JdGordonanyone around that can test a bug report? (thats hasnt updated the the build i just put up)
05:56:52merwinwhat bug?
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06:06:26JdGordondoes every item in the wps context menu go to sound options?
06:08:42JdGordonbah, yeah it was my commit... fixing
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06:55:00midkayJdGordon: around?
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06:56:10JdGordonmidkay: yeah, but about to run
06:57:16midkayhmm.. well it's about the hardware EQ. i remember you 'fixed' it but it still doesn't seem to be working right.. the low/high shelf filters work, but it seems peak filters 1-3 don't.. and they used to.
06:57:31midkayif you don't have any time to look at it.. any thoughts where i might find code related to these?
06:57:46midkaycode that i think you modified, because i think it worked fine before the menu changes.
06:58:23*JdGordon was wondering... I didnt touch the hw eq... but if its menu then all me..
06:58:37JdGordonumm... it would be either menus/sound_menu.c or eq_menu.c
06:58:48Lloreanmidkay: Supposedly the 3 peak filters never worked.
06:58:53JdGordongotte run now.. back in an hour or so
06:58:59midkayJdGordon: thanks, i'll maybe look
06:59:14midkayLlorean: really? i'm pretty sure they did a while ago.
06:59:25midkayi know the bandwidth setting never worked if that's what you're thinking of.
06:59:29LloreanEver since the Hardware EQ came into being, I've been hearing people, regularly, state "The three peak filters do nothing" including developers who implemented it. ;)
06:59:31midkayor it didn't for a while.. or something.
06:59:49scorcheaye...i dont remember them ever working either
06:59:49LloreanSo, people keep _saying_ it at least.
06:59:56LloreanSince I don't have a 5G I have no personal experience on the matter.
07:00:17midkayLlorean: hmm... i'd better get a far earlier build to check.
07:00:27midkayi always thought they worked..
07:01:05midkayfebruary 11th.. hmm.
07:01:34scorchesoftware always worked, but not those shelves
07:01:37midkaynot quite early enough i think. guess i'd have to check it out from svn..
07:01:45midkayscorche: i know software works just fine..
07:02:03midkayand um, the shelves have too. not the peak filters, supposedly. know what i mean...i am juggling a few things atm
07:02:55midkayno problem.. thanks for (incorrectly) reiterating what we just went over a couple times! :)
07:03:23*scorche slaps midkay and returns to his hole
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07:11:25amiconnWhoa. The M5L is still playing.... almost 48 hours now
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07:14:11*jhMikeS thinks his estimate of Friday or Saturday (EDT) might be not far off ... utterly obscene :)
07:14:15aliaskWow! Isn't stock firmware supposed to be 35 hours?
07:14:25Lloreanamiconn: That's ridiculous amounts of playback.
07:14:59amiconnaliask: Yes. But cowon gives the same numbers for M5/M5L as for X5/X5L, which I guess can't be correct
07:15:21amiconnjhMikeS: Nah, I'll guess it will stop sometime today
07:15:40jhMikeSsure it doesn't have nuclear fuel rods in there?
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07:30:19_AmblinDamn...48 hours!?
07:31:11_AmblinThat must be a record for a hard disk based DAP
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08:24:56JdGordonis there any reason why select in the wps on the sansa is long press of the middle button instead of single press like every other target?
08:25:25LloreanProbably nobody's noticed it yet.
08:26:21LloreanOn a slightly related note, I think a mild attempt at unifying the apparent button maps would be nice. I'm somewhat of an opinion that if a short press of a button on one target does A, and a long press does B, on most, or all, targets, when a button short does A, its long should do B.
08:26:36LloreanThere may be a reason this isn't possible everywhere, but off the top of my head it seems like a goal worth striving for at least.
08:27:08*JdGordon confused.. but agress that as much as possible keymaps should be consistant
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08:28:22amiconn49 hours and counting...
08:28:35JdGordonholy cow!
08:28:47JdGordonyour sure its actually playing music right? :p
08:29:02LloreanWell, on some targets (gigabeat) there is a button that serves as "Select" in the filetree, but "Play/Pause" in the WPS. Or on the Sansa, there's a single button that does the Context Menu
08:29:05amiconnI'm now quite fed up of this album ;)
08:29:10LloreanMeanwhile the Power button serves as the Main Menu for some reason.
08:29:23*JdGordon gone
08:29:36*Llorean will admit he had some confusion about the Sansa keymap at first.
08:29:48amiconn...and also, unlike on colour targets, I am able to see the wps all the time
08:30:19Lloreanamiconn: *most* colour targets. :-P
08:30:32amiconnIt even includes a peakmeter. Just the default wps with nimbus 12 font
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08:31:08LloreanSo the M5L is the longest playtime target, without a question (without modification)
08:31:22amiconnLooks like it :)
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08:32:16amiconnIt's runtime would already have overflown the stored runtime counters with the old settings system :P
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08:32:47amiconnHmm, or not
08:32:49Aaron4Are any of you experienced with RealBasic?
08:33:16amiconnIt would need to play for >3 days for this to happen
08:33:16*midkay pictuers "Batt: 97% (53h 24m remaining)" - sweet.. :)
08:35:18*bluebrother wants such a player
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08:36:35LloreanI wouldn't know what to do with more than about 20 hours of playtime anyway
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08:39:20merwinHey Bagder... wondering if you can help me
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08:40:02merwinbagder: you around?
08:40:23Aaron4Would anyone be willing to tell me what they know about converting Integers to Strings?
08:40:47merwinAaron4: Well, it takes a number, and makes it into a string.
08:40:51merwinAaron4: Make sense?
08:41:25Aaron4Well I'm trying to output an integer to a label display but its looking for a String, not an Integer
08:42:08bluebrotheruse snprintf
08:42:31bluebrotherunless you want to do the conversion yourself ;-)
08:42:43Aaron4Well I'm actually not programming for Rockbox which was why I was hoping someone might message me and tell me if they knew what to do
08:42:48B4gdermerwin: so ask, there might even be others than me who can help
08:42:55Aaron4I'm using RealBasic to try to make a visual metronome for myself
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08:43:13bluebrotherurgh. No idea of VB
08:43:36LloreanAaron4: This isn't a general support channel
08:44:33merwinbagder: Probably not :) I think i may have bricked my e200r. e200tool recognizes it still (however, it is recognized as the second of the two devices), but nothing i do will make it turn on at all anymore
08:44:54merwinbagder: I tried to write the e260 i2c.bin to it
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08:45:57merwinbagder: it can read/write through e200tool just fine... i'm just not sure what to read/write to get it back up
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09:03:00merwinhey linuxstb. what's new?
09:04:43linuxstbI've slept for 7 hours and am now drnking coffee... So nothing new.
09:05:54merwinlinuxstb: mmm.. caffiene
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09:06:15merwinlinuxstb: I've given into the fact that my e200r is bricked until further notice
09:06:35merwinlinuxstb: Good news is that i've got a fully rockbox compatible e200
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09:08:27*GodEater is impressed linuxstb got that much sleep. Whenever he reads the logs he notices linuxstb is still awake at 2am usually!
09:08:51linuxstbYes, an early night last night...
09:09:16linuxstbmerwin: Sorry to hear that. So no-one has managed to successfully run e200 firmware on an e200r?
09:09:39merwinlinuxstb: Not yet... probably won't happen for a while (if ever). There's something grossly different about them
09:09:54merwinlinuxstb: seems you can go from e200 -> e200r, but not the other way
09:11:04linuxstbMaybe the e200r needs a second partition creating, to make the disk look like an e200.
09:11:38merwinlinuxstb: That's what i was thinking as well
09:11:47GodEaterwouldn't take much to try it either
09:12:13merwinGodEater: I'd try it, but ... i'm bricked
09:12:29GodEatermerwin: yeah I saw =(
09:12:53linuxstbWhat exactly is e200tool attempting to do?
09:13:07merwinlinuxstb: What do you mean?
09:13:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:13:44linuxstbI just mean, what does it copy, and to where, and then what does the Sansa do with what's copied?
09:14:00merwinlinuxstb: From what i understand, it modifies the RAM only, not the NAND
09:14:11merwinSo you can copy a bootloader to the RAM, and then execute it
09:14:19merwinwhich can help in un-bricking
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09:14:41linuxstbAh OK, so you basically just upload some code, and then run it?
09:15:19linuxstbWhat code is normally uploaded?
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09:16:12merwinlinuxstb: usually a recovery bootloader, so you can get into the recovery partition and flash
09:16:13B4gderwe can go e200 => e200R => e200
09:16:21B4gderif we start with a vanilla one
09:16:33B4gderits just that we can go from an original e200R => e200 (yet)
09:17:11linuxstbmerwin: Where did the recovery bootloader come from? Who wrote it?
09:17:23merwinlinuxstb: Comes with the vanilla firmware
09:17:41merwini'm guessing sansa wrote it :)
09:18:49linuxstbI thought the firmware just consisted of the normal bootloader (BL_*) and the main firmware (PP5022.mi4)?
09:19:58merwinlinuxstb: recovery mode is built into the BL_ firmware
09:20:02merwinif you hold down the REC key
09:20:10merwinand some more at boot
09:21:00linuxstbSo our anonymous friend extracted the code from the BL_ file?
09:21:27GodEaterobjection: supposition ;)
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09:21:40linuxstb_It was just a question...
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09:22:14merwinlinuxstb: Nope... you use e200tool to load the BL file into RAM, execute, and if you're holding down REC while it's booting, you get into the recovery mode
09:22:23merwinlock also has to be on
09:22:28linuxstbI see.
09:22:45linuxstbSo you actually upload the standard bootloader.
09:23:25linuxstbI assume you've tried both an e200r bootloader and an e200 bootloader?
09:23:37merwinlinuxstb: Normally. You can upload any code... you can even upload the rockbox firmware into it. Using e200tool, you can't get anything other than text mode (at least that's my experience), so you'll only see the initial rockbox boot messages
09:24:03linuxstbThat's probably because Rockbox doesn't fully initialise the hardware, but relies on the OF bootloader.
09:24:24merwinlinuxstb: true
09:24:27B4gdermost likely, as there is no such thing as "text mode"
09:24:32merwinB4gder: hah, ok
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09:24:56merwinB4gder: How would you like a mostly bricked e200r?
09:25:16B4gderhey guys
09:25:23B4gderwe've been accepted to the GSoC 2007
09:26:09Mode"#rockbox +o B4gder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
09:26:14linuxstbIs there a published list of accepted projects yet?
09:26:26Topic"Rockbox accepted as mentor organization for GSoC 2007" by B4gder (n=daniel@rockbox/developer/bagder)
09:26:37B4gderI don't know, I just noticed the mail I got
09:27:53linuxstbmerwin: What happens when you try to run the e200r bootloader with e200tool?
09:28:15merwinlinuxstb: On an e200 or e200r?
09:28:22linuxstbOn your "bricked" e200r?
09:28:45merwinlinuxstb: It writes it, then says executing, and a new usb device will show up, but it's unknown
09:28:51GodEaterB4gder: did we have to specify specific projects, or is the GSoC thing open for all the ideas we came up with ?
09:28:55B4gdermerwin: it seems the i2c rom of the e200R is different(ly placed?) than on the e200, so it is very hard for me to guess
09:29:14B4gderGodEater: it just means we can mentor projects, any projects
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09:30:05linuxstbmerwin: What happens if you just run the bootloader, without pressing the recovery mode key combo?
09:30:17merwinB4gder: i attempted to replace the i2c with the e260 one using the method on your site... it said upgrading boot firmware, took 30 seconds, then said complete and i never heard from it again
09:30:24linuxstbB4gder: How does the i2c rom fit into this?
09:30:25merwinlinuxstb: same thing
09:30:38jcdi got e2600 too :D
09:30:52_AmblinQuite active in these parts at night :)
09:31:06B4gderlinuxstb: very very early in the process, the i2c rom is checked/used and if that is broken the unit appears as a portalplayer usb device
09:31:17jcdtrying to compile roxbox now, can anyone explain what "Build (N)ormal, (A)dvanced, (S)imulator, (B)ootloader, (M)anual, (V)oice?" means
09:31:24jcdor how the options differ
09:31:34B4gderif the i2c rom is fine, the sansa can enter manufacturing mode, otherwise it can't
09:32:13aliaskjcd: Normal is the firmware, advanced is for custom builds, simulator is an SDL port of rockbox, bootloader is the bootloader, manual is the manual in pdf format, and voice is the voice file to get rockbox to speak.
09:32:18merwinB4gder: do you know what it means if e200tool responds to the second of the device codes instead of the first?
09:32:33B4gdermerwin: see above, it means the i2c rom is corrupt
09:33:08jcdi want a build to try plugins on and maybe hack abit, i wanna use it with gdb too
09:33:12merwinB4gder: So it should respond when i e200tool recover the BL file... i get nothing after "Executing"
09:33:16jcdso should i use advance one?
09:33:18merwinit recognizes a usb device
09:33:20merwinbut fails
09:33:45linuxstbjcd: You just want "normal" - "advanced" is for when you've made hardware modifications to your device.
09:33:52aliaskjcd: No need.
09:34:09jcdoh, ok, im still in the porcess of reading the manual
09:34:12B4gdermerwin: as I said, it doesn't reach manufacturing mode when the i2c rom is broken, and that is why it still says portalplayer device and not a sansa
09:34:34merwinB4gder: So it's bricked for good?
09:35:00B4gderI wouldn't say that, but I can confirm that I don't have any solution for you at this point
09:35:10merwinB4gder: heh, ok
09:35:18merwinB4gder: would it help if you had the unit in-hand?
09:35:21linuxstbB4gder: So merwin isn't actually succeeding in uploading the code?
09:35:42B4gderlinuxstb: no, he can't upload any code until he can reach the proper mode that allows upload
09:35:56B4gderI mean, other than the i2c rom fix stage
09:36:07linuxstbSo is that something that needs fixing/is fixable in e200tool?
09:36:09merwinB4gder: But e200tool doesn't have an i2c rom fix yet...
09:36:15B4gderI'm a bit vague here, but this is all things MrH knows and has explained to me and I just repeat
09:36:41B4gder(to the best of my knowledge, the mistakes are all mine)
09:37:03B4gdermerwin: e200tool can fix the i2c rom for e200 models
09:38:06merwinThe webpage says that it has no i2c fixing support built-in...
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09:38:35aliaskSo if you can determine the correct address of the i2c rom you could fix the player?
09:39:06B4gderlinuxstb: the official list of accepted gsoc orgs is not published yet it seems
09:39:31B4gderaliask: yes, it might be what's missing
09:39:40B4gderbut it is a bit of a guesswork at this point
09:40:12aliaskHow was the address of the vanilla e200's i2c rom found? Or was this more MrH magic?
09:40:37B4gderraw MrH power required (tm)
09:41:17merwinMrH is a genius
09:42:51aliaskPerhaps MrH will come to the rescue once again :P
09:43:12B4gderhe never left ;-)
09:43:43aliaskI know, but he might decide to take up this particular issue
09:44:47B4gderwe've been discussing the R models and how to get stuff to it recently
09:44:57B4gderbut he has no R model himself
09:45:16B4gderhe also did the e200 => e200R => e200 transition successfullt
09:45:42merwinB4gder: well, if a bricked R will help, i'd be happy to send mine
09:46:07B4gderthere's just the problem that he doesn't want to tell his address, so we can't ship anything his way
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09:46:29_Amblinmerwin: No luck in making your doorstop back into a DAP?
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09:47:12merwinB4gder: oh... makes things harder
09:47:15merwin_Amblin: not yet
09:47:23merwin_Amblin: bad i2c... my fault
09:47:33_AmblinOh :(
09:47:49GodEaterB4gder: can't he set up a PO Box or something ?
09:47:58GodEateror a dead drop in a park ;)
09:48:09B4gderwell, we haven't tried this very hard
09:48:18GodEateror doesn't he even want us to know his nationality ?
09:48:21B4gderhe hasn't even told us what country he lives in
09:48:31B4gderor what planet :-)
09:48:54GodEatercan't you at least infer timezone from the email sending times ? ;)
09:49:08merwinHow do i get a list of connected usb devices from linux?
09:49:11_AmblinPardon my curiosity, but who is this mystery man?
09:49:14aliaskI bet he gets up at 4am just to throw us off
09:49:15GodEatermerwin: lsusb
09:49:28GodEater_Amblin: no-one knows thats why he's a mysterty
09:49:39merwinyep, it's showing up as PortalPlayer
09:49:41B4gderperhaps I can, but I respect his choice and I don't want to contribute to reveal info about him
09:49:54GodEaterB4gder: understood
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09:51:10GodEatermerwin: you can also look at the contents of /proc/bus/usb/devices
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09:51:41*Amblin detests his ISP.
09:51:47merwinGodEater: just a sec, i'll get into that mode again
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09:52:05GodEatermerwin: or the files in /sys/bus/usb/devices/ if you have sysfs compiled into your kernel
09:52:29merwinGodEater: Hell if i know. I'm not a big linux guru :)
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09:52:57GodEatermerwin: well you either have the /sys directory or you don't - that's an easy way to tell ;)
09:53:45merwinwhich usb device do i look at?
09:54:15GodEaterhow many do you have ?
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09:54:47merwin1-0:1.0 1-1 1-1:1.0 1-2 1-2:1.0 usb1
09:55:56GodEaterand when you did lsusb, which Bus/Device was the sansa on ?
09:56:27merwinBus 001 Device 061: ID 0b70:0003 PortalPlayer, Inc.
09:57:32GodEaterhmm - one sec, I'm trying to work out how the naming works myself!
09:58:27*Llorean cheers.
09:59:01LloreanB4gder: So we're in the Summer of Code then?
09:59:22B4gderwe're in!
09:59:40LloreanThis is excellent news.
09:59:43B4gderof course we still need students to find projects they want to work one
09:59:49merwinfound it
09:59:52B4gderwork on
09:59:56GodEatermerwin: I've no clue how the device mapping works - you'll just need to look in each directory till you find the sansa
09:59:58merwinGodEater: device 1-1
10:00:30GodEatermerwin: cool - well that's about all the info you could ever want for your device as available to the usb bus
10:01:10merwinGodEater: do you want any info from there?
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10:01:37LloreanB4gder: But it's definitely a start.
10:02:16B4gderthe news is so fresh most of the mentor org pages on google still give 404 ;-)
10:02:50GodEatermerwin: not really. You just asked how to get info about usb devices attached to your linux box. I just told you.
10:03:36merwinGodEater: oh, thanks :)
10:04:47GodEaterand they linked to our ideas page in the wiki
10:05:00 Join nls [0] (
10:05:26nlsCongratz to the SoC stuff!
10:06:28 Join [IDC]Dragon [0] (i=c19e01ec@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
10:06:54peturlist available now:
10:06:59[IDC]Dragonhello Rockboxers!
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10:08:56GodEaterB4gder: did the email from google contain anything of specific interest, or was it just a one line : "You've been selected" kind of thing ?
10:09:15B4gderthe latter, and info on how I can update parts of our info
10:09:32[IDC]DragonGodEater, thanks for your pointers to MPD and XMMS2, remember our chat?
10:11:18*petur finds out he got google mail as well
10:11:42B4gderpetur: mentor related?
10:11:47peturB4gder: the link to is wrong :)
10:11:52GodEater[IDC]Dragon: I do :)
10:11:52peturB4gder: yes
10:11:54B4gderI jsut fixed it
10:12:42peturB4gder: the mail tells we were selected and that I should register myself as mentor
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10:12:53B4gderI'm trying to figure out how I can submit more mentors
10:12:59[IDC]DragonGodEater: I tied them both, MPD was easy to set up, XMMS2 is a tough nut
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10:14:27[IDC]Dragonthere's pros and cons to both, do you want to hear, should I go to private chat to keep the channel rockboxing?
10:14:33GodEater[IDC]Dragon: I've still not tried XMMS2, it's not in portage yet, and I don't like polluting my system with stuff not under portage management ;)
10:14:46GodEater[IDC]Dragon: PM sounds good
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10:19:11linuxstb_B4gder: Can mentors be in charge of more than one project/student?
10:19:15markunB4gder: great me made it! Now I hope we'll have enough mentors with enough time
10:19:36B4gderlinuxstb: I believe so
10:19:58B4gdermarkun: and enough cool project ideas to attract students!
10:20:11 Join kapez [0] (
10:20:28LloreanB4gder: Well they are supposed to be project ideas.
10:20:35LloreanCan't prospective students also suggest their own?
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10:20:53LloreanI believe they're supposed to send in a project idea to Google, which then asks us to rate them, right?
10:21:03B4gdersomething like that, yes
10:21:13aliaskB4gder: What level of technical know-how is required for mentors?
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10:21:43B4gderaliask: there's no formal requirement, only your/our own ideas of what a mentor should know
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10:22:11linuxstb_aliask: I would expect/hope most mentoring to happen in this irc channel, so everyone can help guide/confuse the student, not just the mentor.
10:22:20B4gderI think we can have mentors with varying degrees of technical knowledge
10:22:40aliaskWell, if you need more mentors I'd be happy to be one.
10:22:54 Join lex_ [0] (
10:23:01B4gderwe do need more
10:23:04LloreanWhile I'm not qualified to "Mentor", I'd be more than willing to help out as much as I can (as I'm sure most of you guessed ;))
10:23:25B4gderwe're currently working out how to apply/add more mentors
10:23:25GodEaterI think we should try to keep a wiki page going with specific student / mentor Q&A going too
10:23:29aliaskLlorean: I'd say you're as qualified (if not more) as me.
10:23:40B4gderI agree
10:24:01LloreanWell, if that's the case, feel free to put me down.
10:24:04B4gderand again, having "all sorts" of mentors with different skills will only be good
10:24:47peturthey also suggest having two mentors per student
10:24:54scorcheif there is any way i can be of help, let me know as well
10:24:57GodEaterso we can gang up on them ?
10:24:58 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
10:25:10aliaskGodEater: :D
10:26:05GodEaterwell that's what linuxstb thinks of being a mentor ;)
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10:28:06LloreanB4gder: Would it be valuable to have some place for SoC students to be able to leave notes/questions for their mentors, or should those just be handled by way of the dev mailing list?
10:28:37GodEaterLlorean: I think somewhere besides the dev mailing list - so other people can follow the discussions all in one place
10:28:52GodEaterhence a wiki page kind of idea - or possibly you're thinking a dedicated forum ?
10:29:02LloreanGodEater: I'm thinking in general terms
10:29:02B4gderactually, I think we should try to keep dev talk on the dev list
10:29:12LloreanDev talk on the dev list is definitely good.
10:29:41B4gderand this being students, many of them new to open source and stuff, we need to learn them The Right Way
10:29:41scorcheif they can be active in IRC, all the better
10:29:43bluebrotherwrite a bot that automatically sums up the daily irc talk into the dev-relevant stuff and post it to the dev list ;-)
10:30:25LloreanI was just wondering if the dev list was the best way to post messages to mentors and such, since the dev list can have a lot of noise on it too.
10:30:44 Join Siltaar [0] (n=Siltaar@
10:31:02B4gderI don't think we need to pre-arrange any out of band communication means, but just take those as we go
10:31:11LloreanWhile input tends to be welcome, someone new to the project could easily get confused by arguments that may crop up on the ML whether something should or shouldn't be done.
10:31:30LloreanThat's worst on the normal ML anyway
10:31:38aliaskLlorean: The dev list doesn't have much noise I'd say - I've only recieved four or five in the last month and a bit.
10:31:50B4gderthe blind people stay on the user list :-)
10:32:19GodEaterexcept the current dev questions on it from the blind guy who doesn't know how to set up the quote chars in outlook
10:32:45Lloreanaliask: It varies a lot with time, but when a controversial subject comes up (which things like Metadata on Buffer, Viewports, or UI improvements could easily spawn) you get 'Developers with firm opinions about the right way' vs 'Users with firm opinions about what they like' :)
10:33:04petursomething is very borked when I'm playing a large (1hour) VBR mp3: it says it is over 3 hours long, and when I seek forward, I end up somewhere in the past :(
10:33:24Lloreanpetur: Do you know when this behaviour started?
10:33:26GodEaterRockbox's new time machine API I see
10:33:29LinusNpetur: is the TOC correct?
10:33:39B4gderadd yourself as a mentor here =>
10:33:59peturIt's generated with a recent lame version
10:34:38peturLlorean: I normally don't play such files so I wouldn't know. I saw it last week too on another file
10:34:40pondlifeDoes anyone here know if it's possible to build the manual under Cygwin? I'm having LaTeX problems - UNICODE support I think...
10:34:52*petur tries a large WAV
10:34:55LinusNpetur: i assume that the file is huge?
10:35:14bluebrotherpondlife: sure. Just install the unicode package yourself
10:35:30Lloreanpetur: I listen to very long files (6+ hours) regularly and haven't seen anything like this, though I don't know when the last one that was MP3 was.
10:35:34pondlifeI have the ZIP, but am not sure where to put it.
10:35:41peturlarge wav is ok
10:36:01LinusNpetur: i bet it's a problem with the Xing header
10:36:10peturthe mp3 is 136MB and the time shown is double of the expected
10:37:20peturright. it is a problem with the file as foobar thinks the same...
10:37:32bluebrotherpondlife: on my system the files are in /usr/share/texmf/tex/latex/unicode
10:37:39bluebrotherit's linux though
10:37:41pondlifeOK, I'll try that
10:38:08bluebrotherbut I assume the other tex files are in /usr/share/texmf on cygwin too, so that should work
10:38:28LloreanB4gder: "Your mentoring acceptance is pending"
10:38:55bluebrotherhmm. Seems there are tons of outlook faq pages in german but not in english :o
10:39:11LinusN"You are too lame to be a mentor" :-(
10:39:19pondlifebluebrother: This is the unicode/ referenced on the wiki, right?
10:39:37pondlifeUnzipped it contains ucs.sty and a lot of .def files
10:39:41GodEaterwell if LinusN is too lame, I won't even bother applying
10:39:53GodEaterthey might hunt me down and shoot me
10:40:02pondlifebluebrother: I get " LaTeX Error: File `utf8x.def' not found"
10:40:22bluebrotherI have the contents of the ucs/ folder in that archive in the unicode folder in my path
10:40:40bluebrotherso utf8x.def is /usr/share/texmf/tex/latex/unicode/utf8x.def on my box
10:40:52pondlifeI don't have a utf8x.def at all
10:41:39bluebrotherif you open the zip file it has a folder called ucs. In that folder is utf8x.def
10:42:21bluebrotheryou need at least the .def and .sty files from there and the data/ folder
10:42:26pondlifeHmm, I better grab the zip again?
10:42:39bluebrotherif it's missing it sounds like a broken download
10:42:58bluebrotherjust downloaded the zip myself, the file is definitely present.
10:43:13pondlifeFrom ?
10:43:23*bluebrother gets the idea writing a bash script that does this for cygwin
10:43:53pondlifeHmm, I think I only copied across the files referred to in the INSTALL
10:44:20*Llorean just realized that the page didn't ask him for an email address.
10:44:30markunB4gder: should we start to define the gsoc tasks a bit better like this?
10:44:35B4gderLlorean: it requires a gmail account
10:44:37markunor will it be ok like this?
10:44:51LloreanB4gder: Yeah, I just went and looked, and I was signed into gmail at the time.
10:45:12B4gdermarkun: the more details the better of course, but in the end it is up to the student
10:45:31pondlifebluebrother: I still get that error... Do I need to re-index?
10:45:39bluebrothertry running texhash
10:45:53markuntrue, just thought it might be easier to pick one of our suggestions if we provided a bit more detail
10:46:02B4gderyes I agree
10:46:14markunand maybe split them in categories
10:46:16pondlifebluebrother: Progress \o/
10:46:19B4gderand we should not underestimate that we need to make them sound attractive and fun
10:46:34bluebrotherpondlife: great
10:46:35pondlife"/rockbox.tex:3: File ended while scanning use of \@writefile."
10:46:40pondlifeThen it stops with a ? prompt
10:46:49bluebrothernope :)
10:46:50markunB4gder: I'll try to work on the wiki a bit when I get to work
10:46:57pondlifeThought not :)
10:47:07bluebrothermaybe it's a dos vs unix line endings thing ...
10:47:23*bluebrother should setup cygwin at home and try himself
10:47:26pondlifeI should be entirely as per SVN - with unix line endings
10:47:40bluebrotherand cygwin is configured for unix line endings?
10:47:58pondlifeHang on, I'll pastebin
10:47:58markunThe "version 3 release" is a quite onrealistic I think
10:48:08 Join My_Sic [0] (
10:48:19Lloreanmarkun: I'm not so certain.
10:48:31bluebrotherhmm. Then it should work. Have you tried a make clean?
10:48:46B4gderperhaps at least unrealistic to get a student to pull that through
10:49:02LinusN"Make users happy"
10:49:08LloreanWell, the biggest thing are the playback oddities and voice glitches.
10:49:14pondlifeYes, I did make clean first
10:49:30scorcheLinusN: that would be much more unrealistic than the 3.0 release
10:49:43LloreanB4gder, markun: Maybe "Playback unification" in its place?
10:49:43markunWould he be a 'release coordinator'? Doesn't sound like a lot of fun for someone new to rockbox
10:49:59pondlifeRockbox isn't meant to be fun :)
10:49:59LinusNtotally un-fun
10:50:14markuntrue true :)
10:50:15*bluebrother agrees
10:50:24markunI really hate working on rockbox
10:50:31markunif only the pay wasn't so good
10:50:40B4gder"cleaning services for core developers to give them more hacking time"
10:50:40LinusNrockbox is all about hard labour
10:51:03GodEaterI hear they use it as a prison sentence in Sweden
10:51:03markunLinusN: and free beer at the next devcon, right?
10:51:10LinusNoh yes
10:51:12pondlifeOh, not free beer
10:51:18pondlifeJust so un-fun
10:51:20markunwell, dontated beer then
10:51:38GodEaterthat's what the Rockbox paypal fund is for right? Beer and Pizza ?
10:51:49 Join hannesd__ [0] (
10:52:17lachlanI doubt people would donate if it were used otherwise
10:52:22markunWill the students select a project or will they be assigned to one?
10:52:30GodEaterthey select one I think
10:52:30B4gdermarkun: they select
10:52:45markunSo it's totally possible non of them are interested in rockbox of course :)
10:52:51Lloreanmarkun: They actually write a project proposal of their own and submit it. Our list is just to give them ideas.
10:53:24ShaidI think the summer of code is unfair to people who don't get a summer break.
10:53:25markunany idea how many students there were the last year(s)?
10:53:29Shaidit's very US-centric!
10:53:38LloreanShaid: Well Google is a US based organization.
10:53:40GodEaterShaid: more northern hemisphere centric
10:53:48 Join pixelma [0] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma)
10:53:56LloreanBut many US Schools have a "summer" semester anyway.
10:53:56B4gdermost northern countries do have summer holidays
10:53:57ShaidI don't know how I would've juggled my uni classes and summer of code at the same time.
10:54:03GodEaterit should be called Winter of code for those below the equator
10:54:12nlsWoul anyone try to hunt me down if I add a scummvm port to the proposed SoC projects?
10:54:17markunGodEater: in Australia they also have a summer break :)
10:54:19LloreanIt's intended for university students, and in the US there's no guaranteed summer break for them depending on their own schedule choices.
10:54:19bluebrotherpondlife: strange. It must struggle somewhere in the preamble or rockbox.tex
10:54:27B4gdernls: indeed not, we need lots of ideas on that page
10:54:33GodEatermarkun: but do they have it in July/August ?
10:54:35Shaidhard to control, that'd be
10:54:42markunGodEater: of course not :)
10:54:45Shaidscummvm is great on a NDS though.
10:54:54GodEaterwell then GSoC is in Winter for them n'est ce pas ?
10:54:55LloreanWouldn't a ScummVM port be a ScummVM summer of code entry?
10:54:59*bluebrother hasn't had holidays for a couple of years :'-(
10:55:01markunscummvm would be nice on a Gigabeat as well
10:55:14markunLlorean: yes, good idea
10:55:17bluebrotherMonkey Island on my h120! :)
10:55:28markunbut it's C++, that might give us some problems
10:55:31LinusNdoesn't scummvm have an incompatible license?
10:55:34LloreanShaid: Since most ScummVM games aren't time-intensive, it'll just play a bit slower because it takes longer to click.
10:55:46LloreanLinusN: It's GPL I believe, just heavily heavily object-oriented C++
10:55:52markunLinusN: does that matter for a plugin?
10:55:55B4gderLlorean: it is better for us to have them as our project as it brings new people into our mindset and environment
10:56:00LinusNmarkun: yes
10:56:12bluebrotherwouldn't it be possible creating a plugin using c++?
10:56:14linuxstb_LinusN: It's GPL'd
10:56:23LloreanB4gder: Oh, I agree. It just might be a good idea to suggest it over there as well, so that people looking at theirs might then come look at ours. :)
10:56:33B4gdervery true
10:56:38*pondlife wants to go south of the equator just to see the sun go round the sky in the other direction.
10:56:43markunLinusN: why? Can't someone make a closed source application for a open source OS (like rockbox)?
10:57:02B4gdermarkun: not really, no
10:57:09bluebrothermarkun: you need to link against GPL libraries
10:57:14 Quit merwin (Connection timed out)
10:57:17B4gderbut that is a very gray area
10:57:21B4gderlet's not go there
10:57:25pixelmapondlife: I've seen your discussion about building the manual on cygwin - have you figured it out yet?
10:57:33pondlifeNot yet
10:57:39LinusNand it is not in our interest to have closed source plugins
10:57:41pondlifeCan you build it under Cygwin?
10:57:56pondlifeGreat, so it's at least possible
10:58:04pondlifeDid you see my pastebin?
10:58:05LloreanCygwin doesn't have the appropriate UCS package, or did you install it and it not work?
10:58:05markunLinusN: no, it was more an extreme example of incompatible licenses
10:58:13LinusNmarkun: i see
10:58:40pondlifepixelma: I'm just re-running configure and make clean
10:58:47LloreanI think though, that we shouldn't have _many_ game-port Project Ideas listed, since a lot of those aren't really Rockbox work, in the end.
10:59:01pixelmapondlife: I put the files as bluebrother described (I think) - and then had to run the command "mktexlsr" as the second paragraph in the help text described...
10:59:33pondlifeAh, it worked now, but plenty of reference warnings, right?
10:59:50bluebrotherreference warnings aren't a problem.
10:59:51markunLlorean: but they could be seen as a part of "make users happy" task :)
10:59:55linuxstb_Would a general feature of allowing plugins written in C++ be feasible?
10:59:56pixelmayes... they are normal
10:59:57Lloreanmarkun: I suppose.
11:00:05pondlifeHow do I make HTML rather than PDF?
11:00:17bluebrotherlatex can't do the references correct in the first run, so you will get those warnings
11:00:23bluebrothermake manual-html
11:00:26pixelmapondlife: that I haven't figured out yet :/
11:00:32markunLlorean: but I agree that some general rockbox stuff suck as a USB stack would be preferable
11:00:34bluebrotherbut you need to have tex4ht installed.
11:00:48markun..such as..
11:00:50bluebrotherwhich afaik is a bit trickier
11:00:51pixelmabluebrother: didn't find that package for cygwin yet
11:01:25GodEaterdid amiconn get round to detailing how his vision of ViewPorts should work at all ?
11:02:30pixelmayes he said it would be faster to just write viewport support than a detailed documentation
11:02:49pondlifeHmm, texi2html... but no tex4ht
11:03:51GodEaterpixelma: is that a joke ?
11:04:23LloreanGodEater: I think the case is that documenting it well enough for someone to implement it as expected would mostly be the same as implementing it.
11:04:48 Quit jcd ("Konversation terminated!")
11:04:52LloreanSometimes cases like that come up. You see something a very specific way in your head, which means if you want it to end up that way you have to write down _all_ the details.
11:04:58pixelmaGodEater: I just repeat what amiconn said - don't think it was a joke but you'd have to ask amiconn himself
11:05:58linuxstb_But wouldn't documentation need to be written anyway?
11:06:28pixelmapondlife: if you can find it out - I'm also interested in being able to build the html-manual...
11:06:37*pondlife Googles more
11:06:38 Quit hannesd (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:06:46 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
11:07:01*nls never managed to get html manual building to work either
11:07:53GodEaterLlorean: I wasn't really after a description of the specific implementation details, I just want a description of what ViewPorts are
11:08:03GodEaterI've so far found nothing with a description of them
11:08:31GodEaterI have an idea in my head that I've put together just from the name - but no idea how close to the truth it is
11:08:35LloreanGodEater: Basically, virtual screens.
11:08:46GodEaterLlorean: which means ?
11:08:46LloreanAt least if I understand correctly.
11:08:57pondlifeVirtual screens mapped to positions on physical screens
11:09:09GodEaterpondlife: like windows 1.0 ?
11:09:14pixelmaI thought you were referring to a description of implementation - because I thought it had to do with the SoC
11:09:17LloreanA subscreen that you can draw to as if it were a full device screen. Scrolling on the virtual screen ends at its edges, etc.
11:09:27linuxstbThere are some details I'm not sure of, such as whether we'll be supporting overlapping viewports, or viewports entirely contained in other viewports...
11:09:31GodEaterpixelma: implementation details would be down to the implementer
11:09:41GodEaterbut if you want someone to do it, you need to tell them what the end result needs to look like
11:10:07GodEaterLlorean, linuxstb: see - those are the things I've not seen written down anywhere
11:10:10GodEateruntil right now
11:10:26LloreanGodEater: I think viewports has only _ever_ been discussed in here.
11:10:31LloreanAt least as far as I've seen
11:10:36linuxstbGodEater: I'm agreeing with you that an overview (from a user's point of view) of how viewports will work will be useful.
11:10:56 Join dan333 [0] (
11:11:03GodEaterI'm just surprised no-one has jotted them down somewhere on the wiki
11:11:27LloreanB4gder: Do you know, if we rename the decrypted OF file on the Sansa back to PP5022.MI4, will it update to that file or are the 'decrypted' ones unusable for updates?
11:11:28B4gderwe're all busy doing rubbish
11:11:49LinusNGodEater: surprised, or disappointed?
11:11:54linuxstbLlorean: I think the "OF.bin" is a raw binary - no mi4 header. But mi4code should be able to convert it back to .mi4 format.
11:12:00LinusNi'm not surprised at all
11:12:01B4gderLlorean: the OF.bin file has the mi4 header stripped, so it won't work
11:12:19linuxstbOr if not mi4code, then scramble
11:12:52B4gdermi4code can do it too
11:12:56linuxstbCan users run a utility from Sansa to reinstall the original firmware?
11:13:14B4gderI don't know how the upgrade utility works
11:13:19Lloreanlinuxstb: So sansapatcher will need the -d option to re-encrypt the OF in the firmware partition?
11:13:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:13:39B4gderLlorean: it doesn't really have to encrypt it, just prepend the proper header
11:13:49Lloreanlinuxstb: The official upgrade process requires the built-in firmware to notice a PP5022.MI4 in the root, and copy it to the firmware partition.
11:13:56GodEaterLinusN: genuinely surprised - most of the good ideas(tm) seem to get at least a bit of a mention. I'll knock up a page now quickly from what I've just heard.
11:14:15linuxstbThe copy of the OF that sansapatcher makes in the firmware partition is in mi4 format already (with 100% plaintext).
11:14:31Lloreanlinuxstb: There's a recovery mode that you can copy an MI4 to, and then the recovery mode will handle copying that to the hidden partition, and you can use that in conjuction with an official firmware update tool, but I don't think we should require people to boot into recovery mode.
11:14:53LinusNGodEater: i'm never surprised when boring work is not done :-)
11:15:10linuxstbThe only problems will be people who have installed Rockbox prior to sansapatcher being made available. But maybe those people should be capable of restoring the OF.
11:15:28*bluebrother will never understand why people are using time book programs for sending email
11:15:37linuxstbi.e. sansapatcher will require an unmodified E200 (or an E200 previously modified by Sansapatcher)
11:16:15LloreanSubstituted "Unmodified" with "E200 running only the original firmware"
11:17:01linuxstbLlorean: What's the difference?
11:17:13 Quit dan333 ("Freedom Chat - Your Home Away From Home | | tIRC script by the Freedom Chat Leets")
11:17:23LinusNisn't it lovely how Sandisk "cooperates" with us? :-P
11:17:32bluebrotherhas anyone replaced the headphone jack on the h120?
11:17:43LinusNbluebrother: yes
11:17:47GodEater <−− initial effort, am about to knock up some imaginary sample graphics to go with it
11:17:50Lloreanlinuxstb: Many of them use that H300 tool to modify the images in their original firmware. Also, some of them may take "Unmodified" to mean "Never modified"
11:17:59bluebrotherLinusN: is it a special jack? Seems mine is a bit broken
11:18:28LinusNit is a common component
11:18:46bluebrotherso I can easily get it at any usual supplier. Good.
11:19:07LinusNthe remote control jack is a different beast though
11:19:16linuxstbLlorean: OK... It sounds like Sandisk have succeeded in selling their DAPs to the ipod-buying part of the population... :)
11:19:30LloreanOh, absolutely.
11:19:37bluebrotheryeah, that was why I asked. I feared that to be some combined thingy
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11:19:57LloreanThe sooner we have a process that limits the ability of user error to "brick" their device, the better. :)
11:20:10*bluebrother remembers he wants to finish that IR remote control for the h100
11:20:22pondlifeBut how many real bricks have ever been made?
11:20:56Lloreanpondlife: People have come terrifyingly close.
11:21:14linuxstbSo is restoring the OF a matter of just downloading the appropriate MI4 from Bagder's repository and copying to the device?
11:21:21LinusNit depends on how you define "brick"
11:21:49pondlifeFor me, I'd define it as "needs hardware mod to restore".
11:21:50dan333If I install cygwin will anything get uploaded or anything go to the net
11:21:51B4gderbrick as in they couldn't fix it so they sent it back seems to have happened multiple times
11:21:55linuxstbAnd either the upgrade will happen, or it won't - no risk of bricking?
11:22:03Lloreanlinuxstb: If you download the MI4 from Bagder's repository, you then have to either copy it over in "Recovery Mode", or copy it into the root of the Fat32 partition, then boot the OF a second time (it detects it on boot)
11:22:22linuxstbLlorean: That sounds harmless (the FAT32 option).
11:22:24LinusNit sure sounds like the sansa is quite brickable
11:22:28LloreanThe FAT32 option is very harmless
11:22:41linuxstbThen we simply need to tell users to do that before running sansapatcher for the first time.
11:22:46LloreanYou just have to shut down, and then re-run the OF, which can be counterintuitive to some people if they're dual booting Rockbox already.
11:23:02LloreanBut yeah, it's very safe.
11:23:07LloreanRecovery Mode is the opposite of safe.
11:23:33linuxstbYes, but if someone has a working install at the moment, there should be no reason to enter recovery mode?
11:23:56LloreanLinusN: Usually "Can't fix it" means "Isn't able to follow the directions, or isn't able to get e200tool working" rather than "It's physically impossible to recover" I think.
11:24:10LinusNit seems many sansa users are full of interesting ideas how to recover their e200 instead of following the instructions
11:24:19linuxstbAnd I can add some checks to sansapatcher to make sure the Rockbox bootloader isn't already installed - e.g. checking that the size of the installed firmware is < 100KB.
11:24:29Lloreanlinuxstb: If they've got a working dual boot install, yes.
11:24:33LloreanWhich should be everyone
11:25:11B4gderbtw, if someone needs some good fun to try on their sansa...
11:25:24B4gderit is to put a filename with a .fmt extension in recovery mode
11:25:40B4gderfmt is for format
11:25:53B4gderthe data partition presumably
11:25:57LinusNmaybe i should buy one....
11:26:20LinusNas soon as i find that long lost pile of money
11:26:22JdGordonill try it if...
11:26:26B4gderLinusN: I hear merwin has a e200R for sale? ;-P
11:26:28 Join Soap2_ [0] (n=Soap@
11:26:28 Quit dan333 ("Freedom Chat - Your Home Away From Home | | tIRC script by the Freedom Chat Leets")
11:26:35LinusNB4gder: lol
11:26:56LloreanB4gder: The .fmt file reformats the data partition, yes.
11:27:14LloreanSomeone in our forums discovered that early on.
11:27:33B4gderI'm curious how the partition is setup afterwards
11:27:38LinusNso isn't there a .recoverthewholeshebang extension?
11:27:50B4gderit has 5 known extensions
11:28:01B4gderand it blindly trust them to br right
11:28:07 Join dan333 [0] (
11:28:24B4gder.fnt is still unknown what it does
11:28:34B4gderfor font
11:28:39LinusNit's funny how much effort has been made into all these USB modes, and the sansa still seems to be the most brickable platform
11:28:54B4gderit really isn't that brickable
11:29:31B4gderit is just that two levels of the unbricking is not that easily done by users
11:29:35linuxstbIt does seem a bad case of over-engineering...
11:29:39LinusNi do hear much talk about recovery mode though
11:29:59dan333If I install cygwin will there be any changes like booting and stuff or is it just like normal software
11:30:13Lloreandan333: It's just normal software.
11:30:16B4gderlinusn: yes, but that's mostly due to rockbox has no usb support
11:30:51dan333hey just one more question is any info or files sent to the net when I install and use cygwin
11:30:56B4gderso if the original firmware can't run and only rockbox can, only recovery can save you
11:31:01LloreanLinusN: Recovery mode shows a small partition when you plug in the device. You can copy files to it, and it'll do various things with those files, from the intended "recover your firmware" to the unintended "brick your player by writing garbage to the booloader"
11:31:38B4gderyeah, I think sandisk's biggest mistake was to not add more error-checks in the recovery mode
11:32:09Lloreandan333: You should read their license for that. Cygwin by necessity needs to connect to the internet to download components, so at the very least information can be drawn from that, if you want to be paranoid. But you should read up on what happens at their site.
11:33:00LloreanWell, in _theory_ nobody should have reason to enter Recovery Mode themselves.
11:33:28JdGordonLlorean: back to the discussion before about consistancy in keymaps among the targets... should we bother with a wiki page so we can see every button combo on each screen across the targets?
11:33:41dan333when I run the setup and it downloads the files will it just download or send anything to the net
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11:34:24LinusNdan333: what are you afraid of?
11:34:25voltagexgratz on google summer of code
11:34:30Lloreandan333: Seriously, it's not software we wrote. It shouldn't, but we aren't experts, and you should read their site.
11:34:34voltagexlets hope great things come out of it
11:35:09dan333I am just wondering if stuff is sent to the net but it looks like the answer is no
11:35:19LloreanJdGordon: I'm really not sure, honestly. It might help shed some light on some of the strangeness. Maybe use the labelled vector images of the targets?
11:35:23LinusNdan333: "stuff"? "the net"?
11:35:39 Quit lachlan ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
11:35:41dan333is the site
11:35:48JdGordonB4gder: on the GSoC page... shouldnt one of the options for the students to just pick half a dozen FS bugs they can fix?
11:36:17 Quit Soap2 (Connection timed out)
11:36:26dan333and i ment stuff to the net I think
11:36:36JdGordonLlorean: vectored image is going a bit far... but an image of each target would be usefull there anyway
11:36:37B4gderI don't see how fixing a few bug reports is any serious project for gsoc
11:36:50B4gderunless the bug reports are of a greater kind
11:36:55JdGordonnot a few.. a few of the big issues... or a dozen of them
11:37:04B4gderbut still, we just provide ideas for projects on that page
11:37:07LinusNdan333: my question is rather: what is "stuff", and what is "the net"?
11:37:16LloreanJdGordon: We already have the labelled vectored images I thought, for the manual.
11:37:33LloreanJdGordon: I was just thinking, since they already have the button "names" pointed out, they'd give a visual representation.
11:37:48JdGordonguess so
11:38:24JdGordonbut is the page worth the effort? I mean its going to take more than 10min to put together,,,,
11:38:32LloreanThat's what I'm not sure of.
11:38:51LloreanI think it's mostly just a few small changes anyway.
11:38:58LloreanAnd I'm not sure even all of them would be agreeable.
11:39:02voltagexB4gder: so make it 100 bugs :P
11:39:19voltagexmake the beggars work! work I say!
11:39:26bluebrotherI think a page that lists some of the key combos over targets might help removing inconsistencies
11:40:04LinusNi think that consistency among targets is a little overrated
11:40:05JdGordondoes anyone mind me changing the long press to short press in the wps for browse?
11:40:25JdGordonon the sansa that is
11:40:36LloreanLinusN: I don't think it should be an absolute standard, but having the Central button on the player do different things on different targets can be frustrating.
11:40:41voltagexLinusN: the hardware is not consistent, so it is a little hard
11:40:56LinusNvoltagex: exactly
11:41:05voltagexLlorean: although my opinion matters zilch, I agree with you too
11:41:08B4gderI don't think consistency over target is overrated
11:41:19LloreanI think it's valuable, but not necessary.
11:41:25B4gderI like getting rockbox on a target I never held before nad being able to actually use it
11:41:27LloreanThere are a lot of places where it doesn't make sense.
11:41:36bluebrotherI like it that Rockbox behaves exactly the same on my mini as on my h120
11:41:43LloreanLike, the "Central" button on the Archoses is actually Play/Pause.
11:41:51bluebrotherI don't think it's crucial though.
11:41:57bluebrotherBut if possible it's a nice thing
11:42:06voltagexLlorean: but what does the Archos OF use that button for?
11:42:11linuxstbLlorean: I think button labels are just as important as button location though.
11:42:18Lloreanlinuxstb: I agree.
11:42:28Lloreanlinuxstb: I was stating the archos as a place where an exception is warranted for what 'center' does.
11:42:52LloreanBut the Gigabeat treats "center" somewhat differently, and it's just the center of the touch-cross.
11:42:53voltagexwait a sec. Shouldn't we aim to match what the OF does to a certain extent?
11:43:01Lloreanvoltagex: Not really, no.
11:43:10B4gderwe're not OF users
11:43:14Lloreanvoltagex: If we did that, Menu on the iPod would almost never invoke the Menu.
11:43:43 Quit dan333 ("Freedom Chat - Your Home Away From Home | | tIRC script by the Freedom Chat Leets")
11:44:02LloreanMy main complaint isn't the button location. It's the button purpose. If a button is the "Play/Pause" button in the WPS, I feel it should do what the Play/Pause button does on other targets in the other screens too.
11:44:10voltagexLlorean: ah, I see
11:44:16LloreanUnless there's a significant reason not to do this.
11:44:24voltagexI guess it's reasonable to expect newbies to adapt
11:44:25LloreanSuch as say, the lack of a stop button on the iPods.
11:46:08voltagexugh...sounds of death from my test box's hard drive
11:46:33*voltagex now knows another reason why he doesn't have a Pod
11:47:07LloreanAll being said though, so far only the Gigabeat and Sansa have caused me a little adaptation time after installing Rockbox on them.
11:47:28voltagexiRiver actually became more intuitive for me
11:47:32LloreanMainly the Sansa's really odd choice of what buttons invoke menus.
11:47:41Lloreanvoltagex: I meant compared to previous Rockboxes I'd used.
11:48:14voltagexLlorean: the buttons have changed slightly from 2.5 to SVN on the H340 :P
11:48:27LloreanYou never had 2.5 on the H340.
11:48:39voltagexerr, well I don't know wtf I had then
11:48:49voltagexbut select was play instead of navi
11:50:46bluebrotherselect and navi are the same things
11:51:06bluebrotherit was just agreed on calling it navi all the time, as it used to get called select on h100
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11:51:16nlsI think he means that the play button was used to select
11:51:31bluebrotherah. That's something different ...
11:51:44bluebrotherbut I can't remember the play button to do that.
11:52:01LloreanI think it may have very briefly at the very very very start, as a button mapping bug, but I'm not sure.
11:52:30nlsmust have been a long time time ago, but you could still enter menus with play before the "root" menu
11:52:36LloreanEach target seems to start with slightly odd button mappings because someone just throws them together to get the sim to build.
11:52:41GodEaterLlorean,linuxstb or LinusN: Please just check I've not interpreted you all wrong ->
11:53:28 Quit Soap2_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:53:35LloreanGodEater: Actually another aspect of viewports would be that a WPS can incorporate several of them for discretely positioned scrolling lines.
11:54:00GodEaterLlorean: I gathered that, but I only wanted to knock up something quickly ;)
11:54:18GodEaterso what you're saying is that what's there isn't wrong, it just doesn't show all possiblities
11:54:28LloreanThough I've always hoped they'd allow for me to pop up a playlist view in the bottom half of the screen while preserving the top half of my WPS, since most of my WPSes just have a space filler image in the bottom half.
11:54:41LloreanIt's not wrong as far as what I'd like to see come of it. ;)
11:54:54GodEaterLlorean: well knock up your own sample image then - it might inspire more student devs for SoC
11:54:59LloreanI don't know how right or wrong it is from the original intent though.
11:55:04linuxstbGodEater: I think you're expecting too much from viewports - my understanding is that at least at the beginning, they are just an extension of the "scrolling margins" type patches. i.e. you define a rectangular area on the screen and you draw into that area using the existing LCD API.
11:55:42linuxstbScrolling lines would only scroll within the viewport.
11:55:48peturGodEater: one thing is wrong though: you can't assigne different stuff of rockbox to different parts of the screen (like wps and browser), like you suggest there
11:56:05GodEaterso in fact, it is mainly wrong...
11:56:31petur"or virtual screens which can be written to seperately by various Rockbox tasks"
11:56:36linuxstbGodEater: At least compared to what's in my head, yes :) But others may be thinking differently.
11:56:55LloreanAs far as I'm concerned, viewports _should_ be able to allow the menu system to pop up "on top of" the WPS in their final form.
11:56:59GodEaterlinuxstb: well this was sort of the point of starting to write it down - so everyone can see what everyone else is thinking ;)
11:57:06*petur is off for some shopping
11:57:22pondlifepixelma: I've made some progress with tex4ht. Look at
11:57:35LloreanYou should be able to, within your WPS, mark a "Viewport" as reserved or available for the list/menu, and that's where it should be drawn when Menu is pressed without stopping the music.
11:57:37pondlifeNow I need htlatex
11:58:02GodEaterI like that idea, but it seems initially the idea with ViewPorts is ONLY to be a feature of WPS type stuff
11:58:04LloreanOr so I think. This seems like an important advanced themeing option.
11:58:18GodEaterif I'm understanding linuxstb and petur
11:58:36linuxstbGodEater: No, they can be used elsewhere - e.g. for the "status bar" and "list" parts of the menu/browser screens.
11:59:00linuxstbOr we could have "pop-up" menus that appear centered in the screen.
11:59:34linuxstbBut yes, the main reason I think is to give more flexibility in the WPS
11:59:38GodEaterwell I'll leave it alone for a bit for others to either change or add to
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12:01:00linuxstbAnother feature which I remember being mentioned is that text drawing within a viewport will still be line-based. Which I think implies a single font per viewport.
12:01:11GodEaterthat makes sense
12:01:11linuxstb(although maybe not...)
12:01:22Lloreanlinuxstb: I do remember that being mentioned.
12:01:24GodEaterit would make initial implementation easier certainly
12:02:01GodEaterand possibly wouldn't inhibit WPS authors too much
12:02:02linuxstbAnd backwards compatibility with "viewport-unaware" WPSs would simply be to render them in a single, full-screen viewport.
12:02:19GodEaterif they wanted a different font immediately below something, they just define another viewport for it
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12:03:12 Quit fejfighter ()
12:03:36Defthi everybody
12:04:11LloreanFor multifont viewport-using themes, would we just have Rockbox rolo itself during the loading of the theme to reallocate the necessary buffers?
12:04:28*Llorean can't mention RoLo without thinking of the similarly named candy.
12:05:06 Quit Deft (Client Quit)
12:06:05GodEateris it possible to "comment out" stuff in the Wiki - I'd like to leave some of what I've written there, but not make it visible to the casual browser ?
12:06:05pondlifeWhy need to rolo? Surely this is a reworking of the current font loading code - that doesn't need a rolo?
12:06:39pondlifeMight need to have a configurable font buffer size.
12:07:10GodEaterah - just HTML comment it.
12:07:39Lloreanpondlife: If it's going to load multiple fonts, it'll either have to divide up the buffer so that each font has increasingly less space in RAM, or allocate new buffers for each new font loaded, requiring a RoLo
12:08:04LloreanThough, I suppose some clever loading code could work.
12:08:07pondlifeThe former sounds better.
12:08:11pondlifeIf possible!
12:08:20LloreanFor static text in the WPS, you load all the glyphs necessary from those fonts only.
12:08:36LloreanThen, as you buffer the songs, you also load the glyphs necessary for their metadata since it's already spun up the disk anyway.
12:08:44pondlifeDon't we only load glyphs as required already
12:08:47LloreanMenus and filetree only use one font anyway.
12:08:58Lloreanpondlife: As required is different from "in advance"
12:09:01pondlifeHence the "bug" reported where the disk was spinning up
12:09:06LinusNafaik, viewports is not much more than "clipping regions"
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12:09:21 Quit voltagex ()
12:09:50LinusNwe can't (and shouldn't) display several screens simultaneously
12:10:02LloreanIf we buffered all the static glyphs for the WPS on their own, then defined ID3 glyphs as part of the 'metadata' and stuck them on buffer with it (once MoB happens) wouldn't that mean an arbitrary amount of WPS fonts without needing a larger font buffer?
12:11:50*Llorean could just be holding the reigns on his brain too loosely, as it is 6AM
12:12:48GodEaterI can't think of a decent image which would illustrate the concept if it's only to include WPS elements =/
12:14:02daurnimator10 points!:
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12:14:19LloreanIf it's only ever to include WPS elements, what advantage does it offer over Scrolling Margins + Multifont + Arbitrary text positioning?
12:14:26LinusNGodEater: have two scrolling texts next to each other
12:14:56GodEaterLinusN: that would mean me having to knock up an animation of some sort to display on the wiki - somewhat beyond my meagre creative talents
12:15:07LinusNLlorean: not much, the thing would be that the implementation would be simpler
12:15:54LinusNGodEater: no, you can easily show that the two texts are scrolling by taking the "snapshot" in the middle of the scroll
12:16:09GodEaterI think that's a fairly limited end goal. I'm not sure I understand why we shouldn't want to display multiple bits of RockBox functionality at once.
12:16:10LloreanGodEater: "Title: y to Heaven Artist: ppelin"
12:16:31LinusNGodEater: keyboard focus
12:16:45bluebrotherLlorean: looks funny ;-)
12:17:21Lloreanbluebrother: Yes, clearly they've both reached the end of their scroll simultaneously despite different text lengths.
12:17:21GodEaterLinusN: If we implemented it as Llorean suggested - with the desired "extra" information as a overlay, I don't think that would matter
12:17:24LinusNGodEater: in your example in the wiki, which of the two viewports have the keyboard focus?
12:17:44LloreanLinusN: If the Menu viewport only showed up when invoked, then it would always have the focus if visible.
12:17:46GodEaterLinusN: I see you argument with my example - but Llorean's idea is better
12:18:26*GodEater has now hidden his pic on the wiki page since it's clearly a bad example
12:18:30LloreanLinusN: You should be able to, within your WPS, mark a "Viewport" as reserved or available for the list/menu, and that's where it should be drawn when Menu is pressed without stopping the music. In this case, that viewport could be used for other purpose (or not display anything) when the menu is not active.
12:18:55LloreanFor example, I could show "Next track info" of various sorts on the bottom half of the screen, but that viewport has the "Menu" flag, and is replaced with the list when the menu is invoked.
12:18:56GodEatere.g. album art one minute, equaliser the next.
12:19:06LloreanIf I just press STOP though, I go back to the classic menu view, no WPS visible at all.
12:19:14LinusNdream on guys
12:19:40LloreanOther than complexity of implementation, is there some reason not to have one viewport usable for the list?
12:19:41GodEaterhehe, if you hadn't started dreaming years ago - none of RB would have happened
12:19:46pondlifeDream or nightmare?
12:19:56 Quit Shaid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:19:56LinusNrockbox didn't begin with a dream
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12:19:57bluebrothera problem with the current way the wps works is that you can't put a line "2 px below the upper border"
12:20:08bluebrotherit began with a nightmare?
12:20:12linuxstbLinusN: You've ruined the myth of Rockbox now...
12:20:30bluebrother... and ended as a dream? *g*
12:20:36*pondlife would like to see viewports used to give a configurable and consistent status bar
12:20:37LinusNbluebrother: nightmare? sort of, it's called the OF :-)
12:20:41 Quit voltagex ()
12:20:44bluebrotherhehe, thought of that.
12:20:53LloreanLinusN: I just don't see the argument of "keyboard focus" as working against how I've described it. I know it's not an immediate goal of Viewports, but I don't see why it's a bad idea for a "one day, we'd like..." kinda thing.
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12:21:47markunLlorean: some Gigabeat people asked for a graphical volume indicator overlay when the global volume buttons are used. I think that would work quite nicely with viewports.
12:21:55LinusNLlorean: i want viewports to be a reality, soon
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12:22:14LloreanLinusN: Yes, and viewports being a reality soon doesn't contradict with having ideas to improve them in the long term after they exist.
12:22:14linuxstbmarkun: Are the volume buttons on the gigabeat ever used for anything apart from volume?
12:22:25markunlinuxstb: in the plugins
12:22:32GodEatermarkun: ooooh - which ones ?
12:22:38LinusNand i want to begin in a small scale, only solving problems we have
12:22:43markunbut I want to use them to change the volume in all other screens
12:22:46pixelmaI think amiconn's idea is that different things can run in different viewports... for example a viewport in the wps showing the oscilloscope for example, or another displaying the playlist and so on - didn't read the whole discussion so ignore me if it's a bit off topic ;)
12:22:47LloreanLinusN: I don't feel this should be a requirement for "Viewports" but more a potential future use of them. Something someone implementing should keep in mind, at least a little bit, with the idea of leaving the system flexible.
12:22:58markunGodEater: which users?
12:23:12GodEatermarkun: no - which plugins
12:23:15Lloreanmarkun: Which plugins uses them?
12:23:23markunLlorean: rockboy I think
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12:23:27LloreanAh, yes.
12:23:28markunmaybe Doom too
12:23:39GodEaterah, I use neither
12:23:41LloreanWell, I'd love for any plugins that make use of playback controls to allow the volume to be adjusted with them too.
12:24:10LinusNpixelma: yes, that's one of the long-term ideas
12:24:12markunyes, me too, but I don't think we should use global volume buttons in the plugins as we only have a few buttons
12:24:22phoenix16Alright lads.
12:24:26Nico_Pi hear viewport talk... has amiconn started work on them ?
12:24:43GodEaterNico_P: no - I asked what they were
12:24:54GodEaterand discussion / argument ensued ;)
12:25:02markunI would like to use my new crosspad code for some plugins like doom and breakout
12:25:14phoenix16Does anyone here use Anapod?
12:25:21GodEatermarkun: I still want you to use to do accelerated scrolling in the browser
12:25:29Lloreanmarkun: Most of the plugins have more than enough buttons without the volume buttons. For those at least, the Volume Buttons should be incorporated.
12:25:29markunGodEater: yes, me too
12:25:36Nico_Pfrom what i understood they seemed a bit like subscreens
12:25:41markunLlorean: yes, it would be nice
12:25:56bluebrotherphoenix16: Rockbox doesn't require to use a itunesdb compatible software.
12:26:08Lloreanmarkun: Partially because I have a habit of playing Jewels while I listen to music, and frequently need to adjust the volume during that, and haven't bothered to hack together a patch.
12:26:10GodEaterNico_P: from the discussion that just happened, it seems a lot of people have a lot of different ideas about them
12:26:26Nico_PGodEater: very true
12:26:27bluebrotherLlorean: use ReplayGain ;-)
12:26:29pixelmapondlife: thank you for the link... strange I had found the ohio-state page myself but not this... I'll try ASAP
12:26:47Lloreanbluebrother: My files are replaygained. The problem mostly comes up when the ambient noise level increases or decreases.
12:26:51Nico_Pthat's why i think amiconn should start writing about the basic principles
12:26:52phoenix16Yeah, I know, but Yamipod has been giving me a bit of hassle with the previous and latest beta.
12:26:59markunLlorean: I think the remote buttons should also be 'global buttons' don't you think?
12:27:08GodEatermarkun: definitely
12:27:11pondlifepixelma: I'm now almost there I think. Looking for "pplrc7t.tfm"
12:27:13Lloreanmarkun: Except in the case of two-player games.
12:27:19markunI just wonder what the 'DSP' button should do
12:27:30LinusNin my view, a viewport is simply a clipping region, much like a window
12:27:42GodEaterDSP button ?
12:27:42markun(little speaker with a + which changes the DSP setting in the OF)
12:27:42Nico_Pwhen there are requests for new WPS layout features, people rply "viewports" without even being sure they are the right answer
12:27:48LinusNwhich, ultimately, could be used to draw info from several "screens"
12:28:00Nico_PLinusN: that's how i see it too
12:28:01GodEaterisn't mute a good option for it ?
12:28:07linuxstbphoenix16: This isn't the best place to ask for help with the original Apple firmware - as well as being off-topic, you're simply not going to find experts here.
12:28:29GodEaterI thought that's what it did anyway - although I've just realised I've never actually pressed it!
12:28:32pondlifeShould (0,0) always be the corner of a viewport? Or would that always refer to a physical screen and be clipped?
12:28:33Lloreanmarkun: It doesn't _have_ to do anything.
12:28:50LloreanGodEater: You don't really need "Mute" with an available Pause button.
12:28:51linuxstbpondlife: By definition, 0,0 is the corner of the viewport.
12:28:52LinusNpondlife: 0,0
12:28:59bluebrotherviewports should refer to their space
12:29:04GodEaterLlorean: true. I should think before I engage my typing fingers
12:29:05pondlifeOK, so slightly more than a clipping region
12:29:19LloreanGodEater: It was my first thought too, but then I attacked it with a bit 'o logic.
12:29:29Nico_Pa sort of abstract screen
12:29:44*bluebrother goes for food
12:29:46GodEatermarkun: well in that case I vote for erm, CrossFeed. ;)
12:29:46pondlifebluebrother: Do you know much about tex4ht?
12:30:04phoenix16linuxstb: I'm not enquiring after apple firmware, I'm using rockpod myself but hadn't bothered checkn the irc till now. I was trying to see what you guys thought was the best software to use in conjunction with rockpod in your experience.
12:30:18markunGodEater: who wants to turn that off anyway :)
12:30:22GodEaterwth is rockpod ?
12:30:37GodEatermarkun: dammit - another argument shot down ;)
12:31:20linuxstbphoenix16: Then that's a different question - I think most people just drag-and-drop files.
12:31:49GodEateralthough perhaps Crossfade is good. For me personally, I listen to a lot of pre-mixed dance stuff, which needs crossfade off, and a lot of other stuff which would benefit from it being on. So having a shortcut to it would be nice.
12:32:07GodEaterI think perhaps I should write my own patch though - it seems it might be a very personal choice
12:32:58markunyes, I can't see anything at the moment that everyone would want to use that button for
12:33:10LloreanIt's probably best left unused then.
12:33:14pondlifepixelma: I am getting an error "−−- error −−- Can't find/open file `pplrc7t.tfm'".. I do have that file in my Adobe palatino font, but am not sure why this is being used for HTML... Any ideas?
12:33:25GodEateris there a good place in the settings menu to assign a shortcut key based on user preference ?
12:33:45phoenix16One other thing, after switching from the apple firmware, did you notice a hefty reduction in scroll rate, even when loading to RAM? Is there a plugin out there that I may have overlooked perhaps...?
12:34:48pixelmapondlife: no idea for html - but afaik the palatino font family was chosen for the pdf-manual
12:35:06pondlifeIndeed, so why is it being referred to for the HTML one?
12:35:27pondlifeI am of course assuming we are going TEX -> HTML, not TEX -> PDF -> HTML
12:35:32pondlifeAnd I can build PDF ok..
12:35:58amiconnViewports are a general concept to ease implementing anyting that needs to draw to a part of the display, and might be placed/sized differently based on other things on the display
12:36:11amiconnE.g. status bar / list / button bar
12:36:26pixelmapondlife: I think you'd have to ask bluebrother, he did all the stuff related to building the html-manual...
12:36:44pondlifeThought so.. I'll wait for him to lunch!
12:36:57pondlifeBack later...
12:37:03amiconnToday, the list code needs to take adjust placement and size depending on whether the status bar / button bar are enabled / disabled
12:37:26markunamiconn: I think it's a great idea
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12:38:15GodEaterwho is BernardKethlayne ?
12:40:24LloreanHe's not in the IRC Nick Reference as far as I see.
12:40:35GodEaterthat's why I asked
12:41:36GodEaterI'm not sure I agree on his pixel-based placement idea, but of course he's entitled to his opinion ;)
12:41:58LloreanI think he missed the "It's not supposed to break current WPS syntax" bit.
12:42:07GodEatermust have
12:42:53GodEaterdo we know of anyone working on font enhancements ?
12:43:44GodEateryou have an alter ego ?
12:44:06markunI'm not sure what you are asking me
12:44:29GodEaterBernardKethlayne added comments to my ViewPorts page, and he indicates he's working on font stuff
12:44:41markunno, it's not me
12:44:42GodEaterI was wondering if that was a clue to his IRC nick - if he even has one
12:44:57GodEatercos otherwise I've never heard of him
12:45:20LloreanHe's edited two other pages since the third of this month, but just to add a link to another page.
12:45:37markunGodEater: he submitted a theme to, you might ask the maintainer for his email address if you want to contact him
12:46:30markunzenX5 on
12:47:52GodEaterI don't really - I was just curious. It seemed a co-incidence that we were chatting about ViewPorts, and that I only made the page this morning.
12:47:56GodEaterI assumed he was in here somewhere
12:49:04aliaskOr trolling the wiki recently updated pages.
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12:51:34GodEaterthat seems most likely now
12:52:20Nico_PGodEater: i'm working on the WPS system
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12:52:47Nico_PGodEater: what page are you talking about ?
12:53:34Nico_Pah i hadn't yet had a look at the wiki changes
12:54:02linuxstbbarrywardell: Basic functionality in sansapatcher is now working - i.e. adding the bootloader to the firmware partition, and creating an unencrypted copy of the OF (mi4 format with 100% plaintext) immediately after the bootloader in the firmware partition.
12:54:30barrywardellgreat. has it been tested?
12:54:51linuxstbBy one person (andrewg867) last night.
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12:55:09barrywardellcool. is there a patch I can try?
12:55:25linuxstb is the source, replace tgz with zip for a windows binary.
12:55:43thewhoWhat's the difference between iaudio X and iaudio M? And when was iaudio M started? I can't find it on amazon.
12:55:45LloreanBut the bootloader still needs to load the OF from the firmware partition.
12:56:00linuxstbAt the moment, it only works properly if you restore the OF firmware first.
12:56:23linuxstbAh, plus it only checks a single key - the win32 binary I uploaded has the new "sansa_gh" key.
12:56:34thewhoI mean iaudio X5 and M5
12:56:36markunAny comments on the categories I added?
12:56:43linuxstbI need to add the ability to try a list of keys.
12:56:52B4gderthewho: the M5 has a greyscale LCD
12:57:29 Quit kaaloo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:57:41thewhoB4gder: and that's why it's not in amazon? Or has it been discontinued?
12:57:52B4gdercall amazon and ask them
12:57:53thewhoLinusN: thanks for the link
12:58:28pixelmathewho: M5 = X5 with a greyscale screen, without USBotg (but has a standard usb port instead of this, i.e. you don't need the subpack for transferring files from/to the pc , without radio
12:58:39LloreanAre we still assuming we might one day get a better AAC from somewhere, or would fixing ours up be a good SoC project idea?
12:58:49B4gdernew web site server has arrived, soon to be installed...
12:59:38LinusNLlorean: define "better"
13:00:12linuxstbthewho: I think there are 2 M5L models available (brand new) on ebay (from a UK seller). But it seems very hard to find, so I'm assuming it's discontinued.
13:00:17markunLlorean: perhaps the work being done by the ffmpeg guys is useful
13:00:45barrywardelllinuxstb: do I just do a make? that gives me a whole lot of errors on my mac
13:00:51linuxstbMost of the ffmpeg guys don't seem that interested in fixed-point codecs, they're using CPUs where floating point is faster...
13:01:11pixelmathewho: there were a few new sold by a british ebay shop (mp3direct) on,uk
13:01:16LloreanLinusN: More efficient (no huge boost ratios), the ability to play large files (it seems to die at a certain size or length, I'm not sure which), and the ability to play a wider range of AACs since I think we still have metadata limitations.
13:01:17linuxstbbarrywardell: I haven't tested it on a Mac yet, but it should work... Try "make sansapatcher-mac"
13:01:24thewhopixelma: without radio = bad for me :-( I'll probably buy X5L then
13:01:39linuxstbbarrywardell: That will create a universal binary.
13:02:10pixelmathewho: yes, that's what I miss too with it
13:02:17linuxstbbarrywardell: If it fails, pastebin the errors (maybe switch to PMs...)
13:03:11thewhothewho: people here seem to underestimate radio :-)
13:04:30LloreanLinusN: While I don't use AAC for the most part, I think right now if we were to move toward release, it'd have to either be decided to be not supported, or have some work done on it to qualify as a release-ready codec.
13:05:18LloreanEspecially the filesize limit, and if there are still any metadata problems those. Both are 'valid' files, that don't play. Though I think Lear has cleared up most (all?) of the metadata issues.
13:05:29 Join inversions [0] (
13:05:45phoenix16Here, can you lot answer me one more thing: Is file browsing speed increased when you drop the music directly onto the ipod, instead of getting rockbox to initialise music that was put there by iTunnes?
13:06:26markunI think rockbox development works pretty well without having releases. We saw last time that a feature freeze doesn't really work.
13:07:46GodEaterphoenix16: it makes no difference one way or the other
13:08:11B4gderphoenix16: the difference is that when you've used itunes, browsing the file tree for music isn't much fun
13:08:55phoenix16B4gder: because whilst more versatile, rockbox is inherrantly slower?
13:08:58markunphoenix16: or are you talking about the difference between the file browser and the database browser?
13:09:09B4gderphoenix16: no
13:09:28B4gderbecause itunes scrambles the file names
13:09:43GodEaterB4gder: I think he means the scroll speed
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13:10:03phoenix16markun: I'm experiencing a 'jerky' scroll rate that slows up quite considerably at time whilst browsing through music.
13:11:25phoenix16Aye, itunes does that. That's why I wondered if I wiped the iPod of the music which was originally transferred by iTunes, and simply dropped the files on to the device as they are, would there be any change.
13:11:47markunphoenix16: no, it's not caused by itunes
13:13:14phoenix16markun: so is what I am describing typical, or?
13:13:34GodEaterphoenix16: it's typical, someone is working on improving it
13:13:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:14:24phoenix16Right, I didn't know that till now. So, guess it's just a case of checking the updates regularly.
13:14:52markunthere are various things that can be improved: font drawing, list drawing, scroll accelleration
13:15:11markunphoenix16: yes, rockbox is being improved all the time
13:15:20linuxstbmarkun: I think releases are good, but I think we've learnt that Rockbox needs to be very close to release-quality BEFORE any feature freezes.
13:15:30phoenix16so using a simpler theme would be recommended?
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13:20:37GodEaterOT: If anyone is in London, and close to exchange square, there's a nice exhibit of car based exotica (Ferraris, Lambos, etc. etc.) going on...
13:22:17markunB4gder: I want to open a wiki page for the Samsung SA58700 family of CPUs. Do you think SamsungSA58700 is good name?
13:24:07aliaskHave we dismissed the idea of creating a branch for a release of rockbox?
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13:24:30B4gdermarkun: yes I do
13:24:58B4gderaliask: until we have a "release manager" appointed, I think we have
13:25:30aliaskWhat does a release manager do?
13:26:05peturnag the others
13:26:11B4gdertakes care of release-related stuff, and would cater for that release stuff would be put in the proper branch etc
13:29:04Nico_PB4gder: for the GSoC, how many students is rockbox going to mentor and how does the choosing work ?
13:29:27Nico_Pyou choose among students who make proposals for rockbox ?
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13:32:46nlsI think that we should hold off on a feature freeze until at least the important playback bugs are fixed to minimize freeze time or lifetime of a branch
13:33:59LloreanNico_P: My understanding is that students interested in Rockbox write proposals that we end up with, we rate the proposals and return them to Google, and then Google picks how many students we get using that list, and the overall distribution of students/projects. I think.
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13:35:13Nico_Pi'm really starting to think i should apply as a student
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13:36:06Nico_Pi need to find a 4-to-6 week job/course but i can probably do both
13:36:20Nico_Pbeing paid to do rockbox work sounds like a dream :)
13:36:34pondlifeHehe, lots of dreams in IRC today
13:36:48LloreanGoogle even admits several of the students have in the past been contributors to the project already, and just used SoC to help subsidize that.
13:37:08LloreanAlso, Rockbox gets a bit of a contribution from Google for each student that gets assigned to us, I believe.
13:37:09markunSamsung's website sucks, and they keep moving and deleting information all the time :(
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13:37:48Nico_PLlorean: are you reffering to this : ?
13:37:48B4gderLlorean: yes, 500USD or so I believe
13:37:57nlsmarkun: google cache?
13:37:58LloreanNico_P: Yes
13:38:05LloreanB4gder: That's what it looks like.
13:38:20pondlifeIf I change the spelling of a string in english.lang, do I need to update the corresponding <source> strings in other .langs?
13:38:49markunnls: yes, that works
13:38:53B4gderpondlife: no, translators will notice when they run genlang
13:38:53markunbut still anoying
13:39:57markunB4gder: ok, now I have a problem :) The SA58450 and SA58700 have so much in common that I think they should be on the same wiki page, but which name..
13:40:21amiconnSA58xx0 ?
13:40:54B4gderor perhaps just SA58
13:41:07Nico_PSA58000 ?
13:41:19B4gderdoes samsung have a generic name for the "family" ?
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13:43:02markunNot that I could find:
13:44:04bluebrotherhmm ... have we agreed on using en_GB-ise for the manual?
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13:45:17linuxstbbluebrother: My vote would go for standardizing on the OED - i.e. -ize.
13:45:49bluebrotherI was just wondering because of the latest commit to english.lang
13:46:07bluebrotherI would be fine with OED too.
13:46:19linuxstbI didn't notice a conclusion to the discussion yesterday.
13:46:33bluebrotherme neither, which made me wondering ...
13:48:37*Llorean would be fine with OED as well
13:48:37pondlifeI thought we used en_GB
13:49:12bluebrotherpondlife: I used en_GB on my last change yesterday but missed the fact that there are various subversions
13:49:17pondlifeAh, ok
13:49:24pondlife-ize is always US, AFAIK
13:49:39bluebrotherit's not (as I learned yesterday)
13:49:50*pondlife should read the logs
13:49:52bluebrothermy machine has en_GB-ize and en_GB-ise
13:50:12pondlifeTo save me time, do you have a reference for that?
13:50:14bluebrotherthere was a nice link to wikipedia describing the issue, something between 23h and 1h
13:50:48bluebrotherfound it:
13:51:38pondlifeWell, I learnt something new
13:51:55pondlifeYou rarely see -ize used in the UK, it looks odd
13:52:27pondlifeBut if that's the way then better get it consistent
13:52:38LloreanIn general, I think I lean toward what most Americans would consider British spellings (not wholly, though), but I prefer -ize.
13:52:54LloreanAnd yes, I caught that -ize is not an Americanization, it just seems to be.
13:53:07pondlifeThere are lots of those of course!
13:54:42ShaidI think it should be wikipaedia. :D
13:55:29pondlifeOK, I'll put it back and update the manual.
13:55:45bluebrother oh, we have a conclusion? ;-)
13:56:07pondlifeWell, I don't neccesarily agree but I'd rather have consistency
13:56:23pondlifeneccesarily being the Bad English spelling
13:57:09bluebrotheronce we all agreed we should document that somewhere ... maybe adding a command line for aspell to LatexGuidelines
13:57:28pondlifeHmm, otherwise, not otherwize ;-) ?
13:59:06markunB4gder: ok, an initial version. Could you rename it for me?
13:59:16simmelI haven't found any info about this, but what video codecs does Rockbox support? I have seen xvid beeing mentioned as an plugin in the tracker..
13:59:23markunSamsungSA58xxx or something
13:59:34Lloreansimmel: The only video codec currently supported (in a limited fashion) is MPEG2
13:59:48simmelThanks Llorean
13:59:49LloreanAnd, by the transitive property of backward compatible codecs, MPEG1 as well, I suppose.
14:00:37simmelI wanted mpeg4/h.264 as iPod and PSP have = (
14:01:42LloreanThe iPod and PSP also have video decoding hardware.
14:02:01LloreanBut you're free to try to implement an h.264 codec for Rockbox, I'm sure many people would applaud you as a hero.
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14:04:16simmelSince h.264 is slow on my regular computer (but ofcourse, not in low-res as the iPod/PSP-video-files are) I don't think it will be an success = )
14:05:17iwantanimac"Note: A new image is being distributed that enables to compile the manual and the sims without further configuration." - What does this mean, exactly? Is there a newer file than on the wiki?
14:06:30iwantanimacanyone? Should i download the file on the wiki page oris there a better one?
14:06:43Lloreaniwantanimac: What wiki page are you talking about?
14:06:46LloreanWe can't exactly read minds.
14:07:09iwantanimacthe VMWare Development Environment one...
14:07:15iwantanimacsorry =P
14:07:33LloreanAs far as I'm aware, v4 is the newest.
14:07:41LloreanHave you tried it? Does it compile Sims successfully?
14:08:22iwantanimacnot sure. it's just i lost the one i downloaded before and it's going to take a while to downlaod, and i don't want to download something that'll be out of date too soon...
14:09:07LloreanWell, that one should be the most recent.
14:09:22iwantanimacok thanks, Llorean.
14:14:00pixelmaB4gder: did you implement the output of "make zip" recently?
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14:14:14nlspixelma: yes he did
14:14:27bluebrotherhmm. Gets me the idea, couldn't we post jigdo files for the vmware image?
14:15:10bluebrotherpondlife: for the html manual, tex4ht does tex -> dvi -> html
14:15:33pixelmathere's just a slight inconvenience for hwcodec... it says "Bitmap: yes; Depth: 1; Swcodec:" <- last thing is blank but shouldn't it display something like "Codec: software/hardware"?
14:16:12linuxstbbluebrother: Ah, so it's like torrents, but downloading from many servers, instead of peer-to-peer?
14:16:41bluebrotherno, it's some kind of binary diff (at least afaik)
14:17:00iwantanimaclinuxstb & bluebrother: torrent would also be good...
14:17:09bluebrotherafaik debian uses that
14:17:30pondlifebluebrother: Did you see the error I was getting? Referring to an Adobe font file...
14:17:35linuxstbAh yes, that's listed as one of the many features....
14:17:50bluebrotherit splits the file into small chunks, and if the file changes you need only download the changed chunks.
14:18:15linuxstbBut is a vmware image compatible with jigdo - it seems to work on iso images...
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14:18:52bluebrotheras far as I understand it jigdo can do this with any binary file. But I might be wrong
14:19:27LloreanWouldn't the problem be that if you've even compiled Rockbox once, your VMWare image is going to be very different, unless you keep the original archive around?
14:19:50linuxstbBut yes, it seems very well suited to distributing the vmware image, if it works. It's also a good way to split bandwidth amongst servers.
14:20:12linuxstbLlorean: That's true...
14:20:21bluebrotherLlorean: yes, but one could keep the 7zipped file
14:20:40bluebrotherI don't see a reason why to distribute the image unzipped anyway
14:20:44LloreanYeah, as long as you tell them to keep the .7z it should be okay.
14:20:57LloreanBut then, how different would the compressed image be?
14:21:08bluebrotherjust tell users to keep the file to make updates faster
14:21:17LloreanI'm not very familiar with compression, but if you took the VMWare image, installed a couple packages, then recompressed it, wouldn't you end up with a decently different file?
14:21:18bluebrotherI guess someone needs to try.
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14:21:34pondlifebluebrother: Please could you have a quick look at and let me know if you could guess what's wrong.
14:21:46iwantanimacLlorean: I think it depends on where the changes are.
14:21:46JdGordonI'm very late.. but back to the viewport discussion... how about giving each viewport a callback function to do the drawing? so you could have multiple "screens" open and updating at any one time?
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14:22:24pondlifeBetter to just make the viewpoint interface identical to the existing screen interface, surely
14:22:47bluebrotherpondlife: strange. Looks like tex4ht tries to output openoffice ...
14:22:55JdGordonwhy identicle? as long as its backwards compatible.. or easy to convert it should be fine
14:23:11pondlifebluebrother: Can you suggest a command-line test I could do?
14:23:17*JdGordon likes the idea of the playlist view "popping up" in the wps
14:23:25bluebrothercd manual; htlatex rockbox-build.tex
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14:24:08pondlifeThat does the same thing... the last part at least
14:24:11bluebrotherthat should build the html version without any of the attached Makefile magic
14:24:15iwantanimacJdGordon: I like that idea too, but i'm an IRC noob, so i can't do that...
14:24:42pondlifeJdGordon: Later. Let's get a simple implementation working first
14:24:58iwantanimacgood point.
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14:25:20bluebrotheryou could remove the palatino font selection in preamble.tex
14:25:24pondlifeThis is likely to be a consolidation/simplification if done right.
14:25:34*JdGordon thinks we need to guilt trip amiconn into finally coding it or documenting his idea so it can be done ";p
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14:25:47bluebrothermaybe that helps, but I suspect a problem with the tex4ht installation
14:25:58pondlifeIs there some kind of environment I need to modify so tex4ht knows what not to do?
14:26:09pondlifeI compiled it from source
14:26:16JdGordonLlorean: and you said before about roloing to get more memory... all thats needed is playback to stop.. so it could be done
14:26:34pondlifeCouldn't find a Cygwin package ready done, so it might be wrong.
14:27:05bluebrotherthe output looks quite different here.
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14:27:34bluebrothernever tried compiling it myself ... but I could do so on my old linux box.
14:27:36amiconnJdGordon: It would also help if I wouldn't have to fix so many of other people's mistakes ;)
14:28:11JdGordonmeh.. :D
14:28:31bluebrotherother people like this australian coder? :P
14:28:35JdGordonwhat is the middle button on the sansa called? select or something else?
14:28:56pondlifebluebrother: Never mind. Maybe another day.. Time for lunch and Work I believe
14:29:01*JdGordon looks around for another aussie to hide behind
14:29:14nlsJdGordon: yeah we call it select
14:29:43JdGordonand the e200 is e200 in the langs?
14:29:59bluebrotherurgh, manual installation of tex4ht is awful :(
14:30:31bluebrotherhmm, looking into jigdo might be an interesting idea for tonight.
14:30:36nlsJdGordon: I guess so, it should be the same as it is called by the configure script
14:31:22JdGordonthe ARCHOS variable in the Makefile right?
14:31:38*bluebrother found a package for his distro
14:31:48nlsJdGordon: yeah
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14:35:16*linuxstb spots that ffmpeg have also been accepted for SoC 2007 -
14:35:27JdGordonB4gder: the only difference between the e220 and e200r is the bootloader right? do you need to then use e200* in the langs for it to work properly?
14:35:42thewhoWhat are the major blocks being worked on? I mean really significant changes like the main menu recently. Or is RB considered more or less good und has to be just polished a bit?
14:35:42linuxstbTwo interesting projects - finishing AAC, and implementing Monkey's Audio.
14:36:24JdGordonthewho: there is always something being fixed...
14:36:30JdGordonor updated... or improved
14:36:33Lloreanthewho: Unifying the playback engine, metadata on buffer, viewports, figuring out the battery life problem for portalplayers, USB stack....
14:37:21thewhoLlorean: could you pls explain what you mean by "unify playback engine" and "metadata on buffer"?
14:37:47linuxstbthewho: I think there are two separate areas: 1) Bringing the new ports (especially portalplayer targets) up to the same standard as the other ports; and 2) Adding new features to Rockbox, such as USBOTG, viewports etc etc
14:38:14Lloreanlinuxstb: I though there were license issues with Monkey's Audio.
14:38:19linuxstbNew ports will always be in development, and I think it's unlikely we'll ever run out of ideas for features.
14:38:41JdGordonthewho: metadata on buffer is storing the tracks metadata onto the audio buffer instead of into a static buffer...
14:38:46Lloreanthewho: "Unifying the playback engine" is something that won't really affect users, but it means removing a lot of the differences of how playback is handled between the hardware codec and software codec players.
14:38:46linuxstbLlorean: Only with the existing decoder. I assume they want to implement a new decoder from scratch, under a sensible (probably LGPL) license.
14:38:48thewholinuxstb: 1 I do understand. But it will be essentially the same RB. I meant changing RB itself
14:38:48amiconnLlorean: I *hope* viewports will happen before SoC
14:38:56JdGordone.g album art and lyrics and id3 info
14:39:10Lloreanamiconn: I think the questions wasn't related to SoC, but generally where Rockbox is going.
14:39:12amiconnThat is, they should be available from the driver(s)
14:39:15linuxstbthewho: Rockbox will always evolve.
14:39:20thewhoJdGordon: what benefits would it bring?
14:39:22Lloreanamiconn: At least, that's how I was answering it. "Major points of interest"
14:39:43Lloreanlinuxstb: Since they were pointing at the LGPL'ed JAVA implementation, I'm guessing so.
14:39:50JdGordonthewho: well, it would mean we could have album art, or lyrics in the core so you dont need a patch to use them
14:40:00JdGordonalso it makes more efficient use of the buffer.. and such
14:40:18nlsand it removes the 32 track on buffer limit
14:40:21Lloreanthewho: Metadata on buffer is mostly stuff the user won't see, but it'll allow a lot of expansion as to how some features can be added.
14:40:32Lloreannls: A limit that's very noticeable these days with some of our new formats.
14:41:02iwantanimacAnything happening with the MIDI implementation?
14:41:11Lloreaniwantanimac: Nobody's working on it, I believe.
14:41:25LloreanIt's a difficult task to tackle.
14:41:31thewhoLlorean: so most changes are for the better internal structure, right? Except for viewports of course
14:41:57JdGordonno, but the major ones are
14:42:04Lloreanthewho: You asked what the major blocks are, better looking stuff is rarely going to be a 'block'
14:42:12JdGordonnls: MoB wont nescacerly remove that problem...
14:42:21LloreanJdGordon: It should allow it to be removed, shouldn't it?
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14:42:36amiconnStill, when viewports are available, the high-level code still needs to be adapted to actually use them
14:42:37linuxstbJdGordon: One of the reasons for MoB is to remove that limit, so I would hope it does.
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14:43:03Lloreanamiconn: I'm sure once they're available, all manner of patches making use of them will crop up.
14:45:16nlsLlorean: or they will do what they use to: complain that they will have to re-sync and instead tell people to use an older revision of the code
14:46:05Lloreannls: There'll be some of that too.
14:46:24LloreanBut all we have to do is introduce a killer feature immediately _after_ that requires viewports to work.
14:46:28LloreanJust something simple, but shiny.
14:46:41nlsyes, that is a good idea :-)
14:46:58LloreanThen all the "UI has to be very shiny" people will start reimplementing stuff the viewport way.
14:47:03*Llorean isn't cynical at all.
14:47:16*JdGordon has a very interesting boot screen on the sansa!
14:47:26JdGordonit looks like a barcode!
14:47:31JdGordonthe display that is
14:47:32thewho Font antialiasing would also be nice IMHO
14:47:58B4gdergood-loocking, but resource hungry
14:47:59amiconnjhMikeS: Any news on your pcm rework idea?
14:48:01LloreanFont antialiasing is rather unlikely any time this decade.
14:48:17Shaidprobably be easier to do scene antialiasing
14:48:22LloreanThe cost/benefit ratio is way in the bad area for that one.
14:48:30Shaidbut still not really worth it
14:48:37*amiconn would like the playback.c <-> pcm interface to be both simple and flexible enough to adapt it for hwcodec playback
14:48:44*pondlife too
14:48:57*[IDC]Dragon too ;-)
14:48:58B4gderantialias is put in the same basket as animated backgrounds ;-)
14:48:58iwantanimacnot worth it on small resolution screens either.
14:48:58LloreanWould that be SoC material then?
14:49:08thewhoLlorean: why? Is it that hard? At least for greyscale displays it shouldn't (e.g. H120)
14:49:36iwantanimacbigger things like the iPod Video would benefit, but things around the 200px mark would just look horrible.
14:49:43pondlifeI was hoping jhMikeS would document a replacement PCM interface as part of the low latency work.
14:49:52Lloreanthewho: For the grayscale displays it might not be hard, but you can't ignore the color displays.
14:50:09Lloreanthewho: You either A) Need two different font formats, or B) Antialiase the fonts during the draw stage costing battery life.
14:50:39*pondlife gets even more fed up with Data Abort posts from iPod owners with old bootloaders.
14:50:40pixelmapondlife: how did you get tex4ht to compile? I seem to do something wrong...
14:51:02pondlifeHmm, used the command lines on that link I gave you
14:51:03thewhoLlorean: I'd be for B). And this could be made an option (like in Windows)
14:51:14pondlife-DHAVE_DIRENT is needed
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14:51:21JdGordonis it possible to check for usb in the sansa bootloader before rockbox starts so we can boot the OF ?
14:51:23pondlife(or whatever it was)
14:51:32jhMikeSamiconn: thinking...and trying to get old projects finished so I can get to it. So to get through that, I need help on: fm scanning, x5 remote ticking .. and I'll finish up the remainder of coldfire DSP optimization.
14:52:01barrywardellJdGordon: should be possible. nobody has done so yet though
14:52:04pondlifeFM scanning? Is that on X5 or more generally?
14:52:20jhMikeSphilips tuner
14:52:24barrywardellJdGordon: and I'll warn that the bootloader will be changing quite a bit to fit in with sansapatcher
14:52:30Lloreanthewho: Or we could just save developer time and not implement it, keeping the text drawing code simpler and not having to worry about it at all for color screens.
14:52:35jhMikeSplus a quieter radio screen ... no noise at all on x5
14:52:47*pondlife is still hoping a fresh UDA1380TT will turn up...
14:53:06pondlifeI get a rather quiet radio screen
14:53:19Lloreanthewho: I mean, on the H120's screen, it's going to do no good at all really, and that's the highest resolution grayscale screen we've got I believe.
14:53:22*Domonoky thinks about commiting the Themeinstaller for rbUtil..
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14:53:34barrywardellJdGordon: just make use of the code in firmware/target/arm/usb-pp.c
14:53:36jhMikeSiRivers have no trouble with that but it might as well just be for everything
14:53:36LloreanDomonoky: Does it make use of
14:53:40*iwantanimac wishes someone was going to work on radio for the H10...
14:53:47JdGordonbarrywardell: cool, thanks
14:53:50Domonokyyes it uses
14:53:50nlsheh, we have both a ManualHowto and a ManualHowTo in the wiki (completely different pages) :-)
14:53:50Lloreaniwantanimac: Feel free. :)
14:54:02LloreanDomonoky: Does it have some sort of check for whether they require patches?
14:54:08jhMikeSThe targets with recording from the FM radio screen always have peakmeters running?
14:54:18iwantanimaclol where would i start, exactly?
14:54:27barrywardelliwantanimac: I tried at one stage, but could't get it working
14:54:28Domonokyjes, but this checking is done on the site ..
14:54:35JdGordonbarrywardell: do usb_enable() then usb_detect()?
14:54:35amiconnbarrywardell: Doesn't the H10 use the philips TEA5767 as well?
14:54:42iwantanimacbarrywardell: really... hm...
14:54:57iwantanimacwhere do i look for the radio stuff?
14:54:57JdGordonnot enable... init
14:54:58LloreanDomonoky: Well, the only two ways to check are either 1) Parse the .wps and look for illegal tags, or 2) Trust the author to have mentioned it on the site.
14:55:04barrywardellamiconn: yes, but it didn't respond to any I2C I tried
14:55:18barrywardellJdGordon: yes, that should do
14:55:20LloreanDomonoky: The easiest way is 2, and I think as long as you do that, and don't allow RButil to download patch-requiring themes (or put a BIG warning) it should be fine.
14:55:21amiconnHmm, perhaps it's not hooked to the i2c you tried?
14:55:22thewhoLlorean: ee... yes, you're right. I think one shouldn't come up here with new ideas since all of them have already been beaten to death earlier or later :-)))
14:55:27Domonokyat the moment its 2)
14:55:36Lloreanthewho: New ideas are always welcome.
14:55:44pondlifeSo are old ones!
14:55:46*linuxstb would like to become official, and the scripts to be in SVN for all to hack
14:56:00*Llorean agrees wholeheartedly with linuxstb, but with one stipulation.
14:56:05jhMikeSoh, I see...only when not recording. Can quiet it for that too.
14:56:11pondlifeWho's behind
14:56:13Domonokyat the moment it doesnt present themes which requre patches
14:56:13barrywardellamiconn: I'm not too sure. It has been a while since I looked at it
14:56:19*amiconn would also like to use the svn www module
14:56:21LloreanIf it became "Official" I'd very much like for it to default for the Patch-dependent themes to be hidden.
14:56:29LloreanJust a simple checkbox somewhere, and a cookie, for them to become visible
14:56:38LloreanBut a conscious action on the part of the user being needed to make them available.
14:56:48linuxstbLlorean: Or it could be argued to not allow them at all...
14:56:51bluebrotherpondlife: Mark Bright aka RedBreva
14:56:55Lloreanlinuxstb: It could be.
14:57:00Lloreanlinuxstb: I wouldn't mind that either.
14:57:00pondlifeAha, it looks good
14:57:13Lloreanlinuxstb: I'm just not sure RedBreva would want to disallow patch-dependent themes.
14:57:20LloreanI was already thinking in "compromise" mode.
14:57:27pondlifeWhy not as an option.
14:57:35bluebrotherI did some initial work on the php script he's using
14:57:43*JdGordon would like to get a competition running for a redeisgned build table page...
14:57:43LloreanDomonoky: Not presenting them at all works for me. :)
14:57:50amiconnbarrywardell: I didn't check; either the pp has more than one i2c bus, or it might also be hooked to some gpio ports using bitbanged i2c
14:57:59JdGordonsurely some of our users are crazy perl and html hackers and want to help?
14:58:01amiconnDisassembling the of should tell us more
14:58:02bluebrotherbut he extended it quite a bit.
14:58:02Domonokyso i will prepare a commit :-)
14:58:06LloreanDomonoky: Just wanted to make sure that something was done about 'em, since I hadn't been around for prior discussions (or hadn't paid attention, I'm a bit focus-less sometimes)
14:58:43linuxstbDomonoky: As you seem to have taken over the role of "official maintainer" for rbutil, any plans for a release?
14:58:48jhMikeSpondlife: I'm so tired it took about 10min took get that joke :P
14:59:02pondlifeHah, get on with it!! :)
14:59:11Domonokyit needs more polishing before a release
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14:59:25linuxstbDomonoky: Feature freeze it :)
14:59:40*pondlife dreams of the day that lostlogic's buffering (with metadata) meets up with jhMikeS's low latency mixing
15:00:02pondlifeAnd Then We'll Have World Peace... and album art maybe.
15:00:09jhMikeSWell, who's gonna help test this stuff that I'm doing now? I try to avoid the throw it in cvs and wait for people to complain tactic. :)
15:00:12JdGordonbarrywardell: what does dr_controller_setup() do? can it be commented out for the bl?
15:00:20*nls dreams of the day the stop while resuming crash is fixed ;-)
15:00:27pondlifejhMikeS: I can test as long as I don't need to hear anything
15:00:54B4gderaustriancoder: some of us are curious on some kind of write-up/summary from your AMS visit
15:00:55jhMikeSpondlife: ummm...guess that won't work :P
15:01:02barrywardellamiconn: I used these i2c functions:
15:01:02LinusNpondlife: i /msg:d you
15:01:42austriancoderB4gder: i will write a summary.. hmmm.. now :)
15:01:43barrywardellamiconn: and the tuner debug screen just gave 0 for the tuner regs
15:02:03B4gderaustriancoder: great!
15:02:51barrywardellJdGordon: why do you need to comment it out?
15:02:54*jhMikeS has learn to interpret "crash" as "freeze" around here
15:03:03linuxstbLlorean: Another issue with the themes site is copyright - I'm assuming that a fair proportion of those themes use non-original graphics...
15:03:11JdGordonbarrywardell: compiler complains if I dont..
15:03:12Domonokycan somebody close FS #6709 ?
15:03:23JdGordonundefined reference
15:03:31nlsJdGordon: <source> and <dest> should be the same in english.lang
15:03:36B4gderDomonoky: tell me your flyspray user name and I'll hand you the powers to close
15:03:39linuxstbLlorean: So maybe we don't want it...
15:03:44JdGordonoh, woops
15:03:48Lloreanlinuxstb: Ah, there is that. But then our wiki has most of those themes too.
15:03:58linuxstbLlorean: Which I don't think it should...
15:04:16 Quit thewho ("CGI:IRC")
15:04:19bluebrotherDomonoky: closed
15:04:34Lloreanlinuxstb: Yeah, but we don't really have a way to keep them out without someone going through and reviewing constantly
15:04:48barrywardellJdGordon: what complaint does the compiler give?
15:04:50Lloreanlinuxstb: If became official, we could require that each theme be approved somehow before posting.
15:04:56B4gderDomonoky: ok, I found your user and you now have the powers to close and edit tasks
15:05:08linuxstbLlorean: Yes, that's one of the reasons I prefer a dedicated website, rather than the wiki.
15:05:10JdGordonbarrywardell: usb-pp.c:(.text.usb_init_device+0x1a4): undefined reference to `dr_controller_setup'
15:05:19DomonokyBagder: thx
15:05:21bluebrotherbtw, and thoughts on using a theme file format like I proposed in FS #6156?
15:05:22Lloreanlinuxstb: As well as requiring the author to include a virtual signature of some sort, a text file stating they own the copyright, or have permission to use, all images
15:05:22JdGordonand dr_controller_run and dr_controller_stop
15:05:38barrywardellJdGordon: you need those, they're the key
15:05:45Lloreanlinuxstb: Oh, I'm all for cleaning up both the presence of patched themes, and copyright infringing ones.
15:05:49JdGordonoh nuts :p
15:05:55linuxstbLlorean: Yes, along with redistribution permissions - e.g. somethign creative-commons like, so other people can post modified versions of existing themes...
15:05:57barrywardellthey're in firmware/drivers/arcotg_udc.c so make sure that's included
15:06:35JdGordonah yes.. thats not compiled for BOOTLOADER
15:06:54Lloreanlinuxstb: Perhaps a checkbox that lets them pick one of the CC licenses, or the GPL even?
15:07:12jhMikeSDue warning: All this low latency stuff will have more buffer overhead since things can't be processed to pcm buffer depth in advance so it might as well be all 32-bit.
15:07:22linuxstbLlorean: I think it would be easier if a single license was selected, and people needed to agree to use it to upload themese.
15:07:35GodEaterlinuxstb: I vote for Creative Commons
15:08:13iwantanimacthat keeps the open source feel.
15:08:14Lloreanlinuxstb: So just the "Creative Commons Attribution" license?
15:08:18jhMikeSfor codecs at least...2 codec channels when xfade enabled
15:08:22GodEaterthough once again, I remain aware Rockbox isn't a democracy ;)
15:08:36linuxstbI don't know the details of the different licenses, but I would like one that's in the spirit of the GPL.
15:09:01iwantanimaccreative commons sort of is...
15:09:05GodEaterdiff CCAL GPL > Licenses.diff
15:09:08Lloreanlinuxstb: Attribution is basically "You can do whatever you want with it, as long as you attribute the original to me" I believe.
15:09:11iwantanimacif i remember correctly...
15:09:19 Quit nls (Remote closed the connection)
15:09:29iwantanimacLlorean is right.
15:09:45linuxstbBagder: What do you think about the principle of an official themes site on
15:09:47GodEaterwe need a lawyer on the Rockbox staff
15:10:13JdGordoncan you disable the database in the sansa OF.. its pissing me off!
15:10:18 Quit Shaid ("I will see you, in the end. And I will laugh at your pain...")
15:10:25B4gderlinuxstb: I even suggested a site name for redbreva before he regged his site, so I've always assumed he didn't want it
15:10:34barrywardelljust don't put any music on it!
15:10:38Lloreanlinuxstb: And I don't believe you're free to relicense the work, so it's very similar to the GPL in intent.
15:11:19linuxstbOK, so now all we need is someone to develop the site...
15:11:41 Join nls [0] (
15:11:42bluebrotherfor themes_
15:11:48B4gderGodEater: we do have at least one lawyer, hidden in the crowd...
15:12:00GodEateranother masked marvel
15:12:13iwantanimacbarrywardell: Is CONFIG_TUNER set for the H10? (It's TEA5767, right?)
15:12:19B4gderhe was involved in the tetris case for the US side
15:12:22linuxstbbluebrother: Yes. But obviously we need to see what RedBreva's intentions are - if he wants to make his site official, or carry on as it is.
15:12:43JdGordoniwantanimac: iirc its commented out...
15:12:45Lloreanlinuxstb: Even if he doesn't want to become official, maybe he'd contribute the site's source code so we have a good starting point for the official one.
15:12:51barrywardelliwantanimac: not yet. I should be once the tuner is working (and yes)
15:12:59bluebrotherif he doesn't want to make his site official I could look into the code I wrote that time for a new themes page
15:13:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:13:56iwantanimacbarrywardell: it needs to be to get FM working, right? As a noob to C, where would i best set it (Having multiple targets is confusing. You guys are awesome)?
15:14:04*JdGordon wonders how the OF database can be so painfully slow!
15:14:16LloreanJdGordon: I wondered that too. Sansa, right?
15:14:21Domonokylinuxstb: if you could update the mac binary of rbutil, it would be very nice :-)
15:14:29JdGordonless than 500mb of music on it!
15:14:31LloreanJdGordon: On the plus side, sometimes it'll "finish" when the bar's only about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way full.
15:14:41LloreanIt still takes forever to even get to that point, though.
15:14:43preglowwhy isn't the target,target,target = "String" notation used in english.lang for identical strings?
15:14:59JdGordonall this and it didnt even do the firmware update :'(
15:15:10preglowhaving a ton of separate identical strings just seems annoying
15:15:13*iwantanimac was surprised to see someone else with Rockbox on the bus today.
15:15:16barrywardelliwantanimac: here's an old patch I have:
15:15:28barrywardellit should give you an idea of what's necessary
15:15:40 Quit midgey (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:15:59GodEateriwantanimac: I think that's neat whenever I see it too
15:16:16iwantanimacand it was an iPod.
15:17:51iwantanimacbarrywardell: I'm guessing there's no need to look in /trunk/apps/recorder/radio.c then...
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15:18:02jhMikeSamiconn: wanna do me a favor and see if that emi suppression works do you? :) whenever convenient is fine.
15:18:13LloreanGodEater: I had an employee at Best Buy recognize my Rockbox shirt, though she'd never tried the software herself.
15:18:38iwantanimacLlorean: I want a rockbox shirt!
15:18:39bluebrotherhehe ... we need a merchandising shop ;)
15:18:47GodEater.... you have a t shirt ...
15:18:47jhMikeSsuppression is definitely the wrong word for it :P
15:18:57Lloreaniwantanimac: They aren't available. They were given out at the developer's meeting last year.
15:19:10barrywardelliwantanimac: I'm not sure. I think it's quite possible that we have to figure out how to enable power to the tuner
15:19:14B4gderbluebrother: shipping is so depressingly annoying and expensive when the customers are all over the globe...
15:19:24GodEateriwantanimac: design one yourself!
15:19:36GodEaterthere's plenty of bespoke T-shirt people on the 'net these days
15:19:37B4gderI got to play the rockbox store when I sent out the shirt leftovers
15:19:46GodEaterI've done about 5 or 6 now that way
15:20:00JdGordonbarrywardell: wwell my quick patch didnt work.. but I dont even know if it actually upgarded o the new mi4 or not... so ill leave it for now
15:20:02bluebrothertrue ...
15:20:03LloreanB4gder: Someone could always start a Cafepress shop with the Rockbox logo on various stuff. I don't know how complicated / painful that is though
15:20:12B4gderthat's very easily done
15:20:22GodEaterB4gder: there needs to be an interflora type thing for that sort of merchandise.
15:20:33preglownew logo competition!
15:20:40GodEatercentral order processing, but distributed sites to send them out
15:20:47LinusN /kick preglow
15:20:53Lloreanpreglow: Woo! I haven't had enough opportunities to say "I liked the old one better" these days. :-P
15:20:53bluebrotherB4gder: how about something like spreadshirt?
15:21:20B4gderas long as I won't have to go somewhere to ship them I'm fine ;-)
15:22:51bluebrotheras far as I understood they will produce and ship the shirts for you.
15:22:54iwantanimacbarrywardell: So the main problem at this point is actually turning power on to the tuner.
15:23:14*bluebrother fails to find shipping costs to US
15:23:15Lloreanbluebrother: Cafepress is similar but offers some additional merchandise.
15:23:16barrywardelliwantanimac: that's my best Idea at what's wrong, yes
15:23:31barrywardelliwantanimac: I suspected a gpio port, but couldn't find anything
15:23:47GodEaterLlorean: what other merchandise would Rockbox ship ?
15:23:55bluebrotherLlorean: never heard of that.
15:24:07Lloreanbluebrother: Many webcomics use it.
15:24:12*JdGordon wouldnt mind a rockbox sticker for the laptop lid... the baby blue tshirt is a bit... off :p
15:24:12iwantanimacbarrywardell: i was just going to ask if there's any feedback from what you've tried... what f ADC_UNKNOWN_1 has something to do with it?
15:24:13LloreanGodEater: Anything but the thong, hopefully. :-P
15:24:15LinusNGodEater: mp3 players? :-)
15:24:24*jhMikeS can't /kick himself
15:24:25GodEaterLlorean: yuk - amen to that!
15:24:29 Join ctaf [0] (
15:24:33bluebrotherI guess that's rather US-centric while spreadshirt seems to be Europe-centric?
15:24:35barrywardelliwantanimac: so far I have had found no feedback whatsoever
15:24:43LloreanGodEater: But there are hats, coffee mugs, stickers, etc.
15:24:47GodEaterLinusN: you're offering to pre-install for people ;)
15:25:06GodEaterI'm pretty certain you'd get involved in the shipping bit if you did
15:25:25GodEaterLlorean: hmm - I could own a Rockbox mug without too much shame I think...
15:25:30iwantanimacbarrywardell: but you would obviously expect thereto be some feedback when it happens. Is there any chance there's some input form (GPIO or other) that's been missed?
15:25:45 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
15:25:45LloreanGodEater: Yup. Rockbox mug might be nice around a technical group of people.
15:25:53LloreanOr, for the beer drinkers, a Rockbox Stein. ;)
15:26:23LinusNa keyboard vacuum cleaner, with the text "Rockbox sucks"
15:26:28bluebrothertoo bad, cafepress doesn't accept paypal
15:26:37Lloreanbluebrother: Yeah, Cafepress is a bit US-centric, but does offer international shipping.
15:26:40GodEaterLinusN: hahahaha
15:26:46LinusNor a bag of shit with the rockbox logo
15:26:46jhMikeSIn the same vein as Primus Sucks?
15:26:46barrywardelliwantanimac: it's very possible. there's a lot in the gpio that we don't know about yet.
15:26:51*petur likes the blue rockbox shirt... together with an orange safetyvest makes the cars stop when biking :)
15:27:05Lloreanbluebrother: It doesn't? I thought it used to, but I could be wrong. I've never actually _bought_ something there. Heh.
15:27:06GodEaterLinusN: what is it makes me think that's still your favourite quote? ;)
15:27:17*bluebrother wants a rockbox shirt
15:27:28*iwantanimac does too
15:27:32LinusNbluebrother: then come to the devcon
15:27:33*B4gder still has... two over
15:27:34bluebrotherLlorean: just checked their website. They don't ;(
15:27:42bluebrotherLinusN: when is devcon?
15:27:44LloreanB4gder: Unfortunate.
15:27:47B4gderwe should set a date
15:27:48LinusNlate may
15:27:51jhMikeSwhy shouldn't there be a Rockbox merchandise store anyway?
15:27:58bluebrotherI'd be interested in coming
15:28:02LloreanA date would be good, so I can know when to I'll be missing out on interesting things.
15:28:03LinusNjhMikeS: because someone has to run it
15:28:14LloreanIs there going to be a live webcam this event?
15:28:19jhMikeSdo they get a cut if they do? :)
15:28:24LinusNLlorean: we hope so
15:28:40bluebrotherhmm, late may I might be finished with uni ...
15:29:11*bluebrother has a deadline
15:29:13LloreanLinusN: If I can't attend, at least I'll be able to watch again.
15:29:50preglowwhat the hell is the t-shirt size in the mentor signup page for? :P
15:29:52 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
15:29:53LloreanYou guys are a bit on the "Far, far away" side of "Places I can reliably get to"
15:29:57B4gderbut this time we must store all pictures
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15:30:00Lloreanpreglow: I was wondering that too.
15:30:16B4gderthey hand out shirts to mentors
15:30:24preglowdo they, now
15:30:26B4gderat least they did last year
15:30:30LloreanI hope I get to be a mentor then.
15:30:51preglowi'm considering signing up, problem is i still don't know how much i'll be gone this summer
15:30:56preglowminimum a couple of weeks
15:30:58LloreanI see how it works though: The project gets money, the student gets money, the guy who decides whether the student gets money or not gets a pat on the back and a T-shirt.
15:31:05*jhMikeS is too freaked by the notion someone might actually listen to what he says
15:31:55B4gderpreglow: each student would most probably get two mentors anyway, so a single one should be able to be absent like that with little problems
15:32:16preglowi might have internet access if i do disappear anyway
15:32:22preglowit's not like i'm a mentor to commit code
15:32:31LloreanNot to mention we're a pretty tight community, so I'm sure people can pitch in as necessary.
15:32:54B4gdermy hope is that the mentors are more formally "responsible" than in practise
15:33:28*GodEater thinks he might make a rockbox teddy bear
15:33:29preglowwell, if the students join us on irc, i don't think the practicalities of getting help or guidance will be much of a bother anyway
15:33:34preglowand we should indeed encourage them to do so
15:33:57B4gdergetting them into our dev community will be a big part of the mentoring
15:34:11preglowi see the mentor more as a person making sure progress is made
15:34:12 Quit Hoffmann ("Ciao")
15:34:17preglowand things staying on track
15:34:24 Quit OgMaciel ("mv OgMaciel $HOME")
15:34:27LloreanI think the biggest responsibility of the mentor is the midterm check and the final check to see if the goals are met, right?
15:34:36B4gderyes, most probably
15:34:36LloreanWell, the biggest "set" responsibility
15:34:38jhMikeSsounds more like a boss than a mentor
15:34:49preglowjhMikeS: no one would apply if they were called bosses :>
15:35:02LloreanjhMikeS: Considering those two checkpoints determine whether Google hands over the cash to the student, it unfortunately kinda is.
15:35:11jhMikeShow do you paddle students over the internet anyway?
15:35:29LloreanIf we're lucky they'll give us their real world locations and we can send enforcers. :-P
15:35:37GodEaterB4gder: who sets the amount of money ?
15:35:39preglowthe Google Grunts program
15:36:58desowindo you require other info than google with student applications ?
15:37:31*GodEater just read the SoC FAQ and found out himself
15:37:56B4gderdesowin: no
15:38:25LloreanThe 2005 shirt was much cooler than the 2006 one, I think
15:39:05bluebrotherGoogle Grunts? Sounds like grumpy old men.
15:39:16B4gderthat fits us!
15:39:25B4gderRockbox grumps
15:39:44bluebrotherespecially when I consider my birthday this year ...
15:40:05 Join toffe82 [0] (
15:40:07 Quit himitsu ("Leaving")
15:41:03 Part LinusN
15:41:28*preglow tries compiling rbutil again
15:42:25preglowi get a whole bunch of warnings concerning char* to wxChar* conversions, what's up with that?
15:42:43desowinwx 2.6 ?
15:42:50preglowfreshly downloaded and compiled
15:43:27jhMikeSpreglow: can you do a quicky scan check again with the radio patch? I changed the scan algorithm around and it's way more solid. Will post an update.
15:43:28*Domonoky only gets warnings in the ipodpatcher part..
15:43:37preglowjhMikeS: sure, just url me
15:43:46jhMikeSok, thanks
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15:44:04 Quit dpassen1 (Client Quit)
15:44:17preglowDomonoky: these are errors, btw, not warnings
15:44:32preglowDomonoky: obviously a char and a wxchar isn't the same here
15:44:56Domonokyi will try it in colinux
15:45:07pregloware there any unicode issues or something around?
15:45:33Domonokyi dont know
15:45:51preglowthis is a unicode wx
15:46:28Domonokythat could be the problem..
15:46:45Domonokycan you send me the error log ?
15:47:23preglowwait a sec, i'll just upload to web
15:48:03markunB4gder: can you rename SamsungSA58700 to SamsungSA58xxx ?
15:49:57 Join _ke [0] (
15:51:41chris_is that patch for the sansa e200?
15:51:49chris_because that would be joyous.
15:51:50preglowjhMikeS: at first glance, it seems even worse than the first patch i got
15:52:00jhMikeSat first glance?
15:52:06preglowwell, i now have 41 presets
15:52:08preglowand tons of static
15:52:46 Quit iwantanimac ("alright, off to bed. see ya!")
15:53:00jhMikeSI'm sure it has to do with the level and just that by now...that has to be settable
15:53:20 Join Obsys [0] (
15:54:43jhMikeSIt works so perfectly in the US/Canada region but obviously your static is rather loud
15:56:22preglowooh, twisted sister!
15:56:38preglowi really need to browse the radio channels more often, haha
15:56:59jhMikeSthey play all kinds of crap over there I see :P
15:57:30jhMikeSfor all I know the static really is stations :)
15:58:20preglowthe chances of finding something i like is decent enough if i stay off the damned top 40 stations
15:59:00XavierGranother day of stupidity for me: tried to battery bench my ondio without starting battery_bench plugin! :\
15:59:03preglowDomonoky: any ideas?
15:59:13XavierGrI wonder what is wrong with me...
15:59:20Domonokyyes, it is a Unicode problem, i am fixing..
15:59:20jhMikeSnext patch gets an ADC level setting
15:59:21XavierGrgrats on GSoC too :)
15:59:47preglowjhMikeS: hm, you know how retailos performs on this?
15:59:50preglowi think that worked pretty ok here
15:59:59jhMikeShere, worse
16:00:04preglowi don't know if we really want an adc level setting, that's not something you see very often
16:00:11preglowbut if it's the only way...
16:00:13jhMikeSx5...just pathetic...misses everything
16:00:37jhMikeSI'd call it "Scan Sensitivity" or something somewhat friendy
16:00:58preglowjhMikeS: yeah, and preferably a non-numeric setting
16:01:56amiconn*if* tuners offer that, it's usually called "local/dx"
16:02:02jhMikeSI need to know the level that gives best result for you though. This time you got all those hits but at 1 higher level so I'm guess 6 or 7 would probably work well.
16:03:38jhMikeS5 is actually a very sensitive level. A logf build can tell you what the levels were on the hits and on the ones actually added.
16:05:16jhMikeSthe builtin auto search uses levels 5,7 and 10
16:06:03preglowDomonoky: excellent
16:07:42preglowbuiltin search?
16:09:01preglowi love the stations which have a high pitched sine which gets modulated along with the main signal
16:09:10preglowperhaps it's a harmonic of the carrier wave or something
16:10:06jhMikeSI never get those here
16:14:57 Quit lee-qid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:16:06 Part Llorean
16:18:03 Quit webguest77 ("CGI:IRC")
16:19:15 Join thewho [0] (i=c27f0812@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
16:19:55thewhoThere is a page with IRC traffic statistics. Is there a similar page about at what time of the day the most commits are made?
16:21:25preglowand why is that interesting?
16:22:35B4gderthere is! iirc
16:23:02jhMikeSpreglow: didn't just do a quick check with say level 7?
16:24:55preglowjhMikeS: ah, no, you need to tell me to do stuff like that, i'm still just listening to the radio :>
16:25:32preglowwill do now
16:25:35jhMikeSlol...I really think it's just a level issue
16:26:27jhMikeSThe rest is just purely how Philips says to handle it
16:28:04preglowi'd still say the scanning is lousy at 7
16:28:17preglowskips some channels, around 6-7 out of 17 channels are silent/static
16:29:44jhMikeSurgh...I give up. Their chip sucks.
16:29:56jhMikeSAnd obviously they don't know either :\
16:30:52 Quit eggy ("<null>")
16:31:01thewhopreglow: I just wanted to know when the RB beast (which is spread around the world) is statistically most active
16:31:21preglowand the data is quite obviously available as well, so lucky you!
16:31:33thewhopreglow: but I don't see that info on Daniel's page (which is very cool BTW!)
16:31:37jhMikeSI think it's most active during the day ;)
16:31:39linuxstbpreglow: AFAIK, rbutil has never compiled with a unicode build of wx.
16:31:49preglowlinuxstb: it doesn't say so anywhere
16:32:03 Quit ctaf ("Leaving.")
16:32:10linuxstbDomonoky: I tried a Mac OS X build, but I think you forgot to commit a couple of .xpm files...
16:32:20linuxstbpreglow: You mean in the rbutil documentation?
16:32:22Domonokyyes, try again, please
16:32:33preglowjhMikeS: actually, all the falsely detected channels are silent with hiss at adc level 7
16:33:08linuxstbDomonoky: Just spotted the commit...
16:33:19jhMikeSpreglow: what about the skipped ones?
16:33:22preglowlinuxstb: basically just the wiki page, doesn't say anywhere you can't use a unicode version
16:34:13linuxstbpreglow: It doesn't say you can either... The default way to build wx is non-unicode.
16:34:24preglowjhMikeS: some of them are perfectly clear
16:34:35jhMikeSIf their dumb radio chip can't tell a signal from background noise it's hopeless
16:34:49Domonokybut it would be good, if it can be build with unicode..(premade wxWidgets packages are unicode normally)
16:34:51linuxstbBut anyway, did Domonoky's commit help fix that problem?
16:35:03linuxstbDomonoky: Of course.
16:35:21_keis a mentor for summerofcode regarding rockbox here?
16:35:42preglowlinuxstb: a lot of them, yes, but more are left, i'll check out
16:36:09markun_ke: we're all here
16:36:26_kemarkun, hehe ;)
16:36:30Domonokypreglow: if you report those errors to me, i will fix it :-)
16:36:42markun_ke: are you planning to work on rockbox during the summer?
16:36:56preglowrbutil.cpp:629: error: ambiguous overload for 'operator==' in 'wxString::AfterLast(wxChar) const(47) == "rbutil"'
16:37:00preglowthat's the new showstopper now
16:37:21_kewell i wanted to ask if those ideas are the only regarding rockbox? some ideas seem to be very interesting, but some students are working on them right now, as i can see at the end of the rockbox-soc-page
16:37:32thewhoAre there screenshots from the rbutils available somewhere?
16:37:57Domonokyi dont think there are Screenshot of rbutil, but i could make some..
16:37:58GodEater_ke: if you have other ideas, we'd be pleased to hear them
16:38:09preglowDomonoky: i'll try to fix them myself
16:38:20thewhoDomonoky: is there a wiki page? They the could be placed there.
16:38:26linuxstbDomonoky: Your themes_3d.xpm and untools2_3d.xpm files seem broken - they each have two copies of the bitmap inside...
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16:38:35*jhMikeS just doesn't get how it works so utterly perfectly in this region
16:38:45markun_ke: you can also check the feature requests in the tracker:
16:39:51Domonokypreglow: for line 629, change the define in rbutil.h to : #define EXE_NAME wxT("rbutil.exe")
16:40:28preglowDomonoky: i have
16:40:33preglowDomonoky: still plenty of unicode problems left here
16:40:34Domonokyand also for the other #defines..
16:40:51linuxstbIs there some way for students to submit multiple project ideas? e.g. what happens if a student chooses a project from the Rockbox list, but is rejected by google?
16:41:26linuxstb_ke: Do you own a player that Rockbox runs on?
16:41:37Domonokypreglow: jeah, i changed many of those Strings, but forgot a few, all need to be enclosed with wxT()
16:41:41_kei have an ipod5g with rockbox on it, yes ;)
16:41:54B4gderlinuxstb: students apply with multiple projects
16:41:58jhMikeSpreglow: I'd be curious on one more test: turn off the de-emphasis flag. Just comment the B5_WR_DTC out on line 250 and reset the level to 5. Then I'll stop bothering you. :)
16:42:01preglowGOD, how i _HATE_ gcc's c++ errors
16:42:17B4gderlinuxstb: and google can in fact let the projects decide which should get which student I believe
16:42:26GodEaterpreglow: look on the bright side - they used to be much MUCH worse.
16:42:29B4gderat least there were some cases last year
16:42:54B4gderwhen the student gets accepted for two different projects
16:42:55preglowjhMikeS: just the if?
16:43:03_kelinuxstb,i have an ipod5g with rockbox on it, yes ;)
16:43:10linuxstb_ke: What kind of projects are you interested in? e.g. low-level hardware hacking, audio-related work, UI-work, etc etc.
16:43:59linuxstb_ke: Another page with ideas is the "to-do" list for the ipod port -
16:44:05_kelinuxstb, well im not very in the low-level thing, but its interesting. i would like to do something user-related
16:44:09preglowDomonoky: g++ -Wall -Wundef -c `wx-config −−cxxflags` -o rbutilFrm.o rbutilFrm.cpp
16:44:13preglowuntools2_3d.xpm:306: error: redefinition of 'char* untools2_3d_xpm []'
16:44:15preglowuntools2_3d.xpm:2: error: 'char* untools2_3d_xpm [302]' previously defined here
16:44:15jhMikeSThat setting is region specific, maybe it's wrong. Add a line write_bytes[B5] ^= B5_WR_DTC; at the end of the deemphasis case. to set it to the opposite.
16:45:00linuxstbpreglow: Yes, I just reported the same thing - the xpms contain two copies of the bitmap...
16:45:07Domonokypreglow: thats the broken xpm, it contains two copys of the image... :-)
16:45:17Domonokyi will fix :-)
16:45:47jhMikeSpreglow: and yeah, just set the MIN_ADC_LEVEL back to 5
16:47:53*Domonoky just commited the fix to those xmps, and also a few more Unicode fixes :-)
16:48:16preglowjhMikeS: should i notice it on the audio anyway?
16:48:29_kelinuxstb, you mean i should take one issue from the ipod-todolist and create an application for that with some ideas how to resolve that issue?
16:48:36Domonokyand the build system shouldnt rebuild on commits on rbuitl
16:48:41jhMikeSdon't think so, should affect the tuner
16:49:17preglowjhMikeS: man, is the scan supposed to be this slow? like spending several seconds for each mhz
16:49:30B4gderif anyone writes a script that can tell us better when to re-run the builds, then I'm all ears
16:49:38nlsDomonoky: it rebuilds on everything, even manual commits
16:49:51preglowjhMikeS: i believe that was a change for the worse
16:50:00B4gderit just spots a new svn rev and rebuilds
16:50:39jhMikeSstation results? probably picked up everything under the sun
16:51:13preglowDomonoky: still plenty of unicode errors, heh
16:51:35preglowDomonoky: will have a stab at fixing them
16:51:50Domonokypreglow: if you can fix those, and commit it, it would be nice, i cant test them, so its hard to fix for me..
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16:53:01linuxstb_ke: The ipod to-do list is more low-level, so maybe it's not what you're looking for. I just suggested that page as more possible ideas.
16:54:14jhMikeSpreglow: Only link I can think if for you to make a logf build with everything as I gave it to you and post a link to the logf dump. Not sure if I'll get something from that.
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16:55:05linuxstbBagder: (for the logs), isn't the problem with the build scripts that everything is one SVN repository? Couldn't we have separate repositories for different parts of the project?
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16:56:18jhMikeSpreglow: and if you could highlight the ones in the logf dump that actually have signals that would be just awesome. :)
16:56:31bluebrotherok, seems I found a nasty bug :(
16:56:43bluebrotherbut unfortunately not in the code
16:56:54bluebrotherthe "Nothing to resume" splash freezes the player for me.
16:57:14bluebrotherbut it seems this doesn't happen every time.
16:57:14preglowDomonoky: the rbutil_developers array needs handling and i don't know how
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16:58:21desowinwhat do you think about creating 'plugin dict' gui with converters from other formats and so ?
16:58:25toffe82jhMikeS: what is your problem with the radio ? you know that you know that the scan step is not the same in the US and in Europ
16:58:32preglowjhMikeS: i'll see about doing that later
16:58:47Domonokypreglow: i will hav a look at it..
16:58:47preglowjhMikeS: what settings would you like me to use for that?
17:01:07toffe82Domonoky: I didn't check the last version of rbutils would it be possible to have a multiple selection in the themes page to download several themes at the same time ?
17:01:24Domonokyit is already possible
17:01:25jhMikeStoffe82: yes
17:01:46jhMikeSpreglow: just the stuff in the patch as it was
17:02:30toffe82Domonoky: ok
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17:03:58jhMikeStoffe82: I'm going by philips' (rather ambiguous) application notes on the tuner. Could be the hi/low injection is ending up wrong or something...but don't really know yet.
17:04:25jhMikeShere it's just perfect
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17:07:29toffe82jhMikeS: what chip is it ?
17:10:00preglowjhMikeS: star means it found a station there?
17:10:34jhMikeSIf it's in the list, the level was high enought, if it has a star, it added it to the presets
17:11:53linuxstbDomonoky: Mac OS X binary uploaded.
17:12:29Domonokylinuxstb: nice
17:13:22jhMikeStoffe82: I dunno, maybe the code in svn works just great in the European region but it is almost as bad for me as the patch is over there.
17:13:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:14:14Domonokypreglow: for the rbutil_developers[] array: just change the type to: static const wxString, and enclose the strings in the initalisation with wxT()
17:14:44linuxstbDomonoky: How do you select multiple themes to install? It's not working in Linux for me.
17:15:20*linuxstb figures it out
17:15:41linuxstbI was expecting to simply do multiple selections in the list box...
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17:17:24Domonokyif you can do multiple selections, what should i show in the text below the listbox ? the first entry ? nothing ?
17:17:42GodEaterDomonoky: comma delimited list ?
17:17:56linuxstbDomonoky: Yes, I know...
17:18:08DomonokyGodEater: not good, there isnt enough space
17:18:32linuxstbCould the checkbox be in the list - i.e. on the right-hand side, next to the name.
17:18:45linuxstb^install checkbox
17:18:50Domonokyi think this could be possible
17:19:07toffe82jhMikeS: I don't know if this can help but you can have a look :
17:19:12*Domonoky goes checking wxWidgets doku...
17:20:27linuxstbDomonoky: But I think I would prefer the preview image to be part of the page - e.g. with "next/previous" buttons to browse through the available themes. It's awkward to have to click preview, and then close the window between each theme.
17:22:06Domonokyi had, the preview image as part of the page, but the problem is that the images have different sizes depending on target..
17:22:06linuxstbCan't wxwidgets handle that though?
17:22:06Domonokyand i dont know how to resize the wizardpage
17:22:06linuxstbi.e. dynamically rearranging window content...
17:22:06Domonokyresizeing the controls is not the problem..
17:22:32Domonokybut the complete wizardpage
17:22:44linuxstbTo be honest, I'm not a fan of the wizardpage concept anyway - I would prefer it all in one window.
17:22:47jhMikeStoffe82: thanks. it's not the tuning code but I guess I could look around for it.
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17:25:58Domonokyi just used what christi made, so i reused the wizardpages.
17:26:48linuxstbYes, I know...
17:26:48Domonokybut i could change the preview window, so you dont have to close it ?
17:26:48Domonokyit would be an extra window, but it would change the image, as you change the selection..
17:26:48linuxstbThat would be nicer.
17:26:48preglowjhMikeS: the upper one being the one you should look at
17:26:48GodEaterlinuxstb: is there a gtk version for OSX ?
17:26:48linuxstbGodEater: I've no idea
17:26:48*GodEater goes on the hunt
17:27:16jhMikeSpreglow: you're forbidding me from looking ;)
17:27:16preglowhow nice
17:27:22GodEaterapparently there is. wonder why Christi chose WxWidgets
17:27:24linuxstbDomonoky: Or how about removing the photo from the themes wizard page, and putting the image in the bottom-right corner?
17:27:42preglowjhMikeS: try now
17:28:13jhMikeSpreglow: thanks so much for doing that
17:28:57preglowjhMikeS: you're welcome, hope it's of use :)
17:29:14linuxstbGodEater: GTK on the Mac more likely than not requires installing an X Server...
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17:29:47jhMikeSbugger, the hiss looks just like a radio station :\ stupid tea
17:30:20linuxstbGodEater: I take that back, apparently there's a native port...
17:30:42GodEaterGTK+OSX ? Or you're looking elsewhere ?
17:30:50Domonokylinuxstb: i will have to look if i can remove the image from one page, but not the others..
17:30:56GodEaterit seems to use XDarwin / Fink
17:31:08preglowjhMikeS: nothing to do about that, then
17:31:13linuxstbGodEater: I'm reading this page -
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17:32:05GodEaterlinuxstb: nifty, and if it can run Gimp - I'd imagine it's fairly mature
17:32:19preglowDomonoky: how to convert a char* to wxString? ipod_t has chars, and i ipodpatcher code
17:32:31webguest69Hi together, has someone an update on the ipod 80GB???
17:32:38GodEaterwebguest69: no progress
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17:33:31webguest69so that means no support so far, OK, any idea when?
17:33:46GodEaterwebguest69: when LinusN can afford the time to work on it.
17:34:49Domonokypreglow: i dont really know, sorry :-)
17:35:13GodEaterDomonoky: is rbutil modular enough code wise to be redone in another tookit ?
17:35:40webguest69That it not my favorite answer, but I know you're all busy, thanks for your great work!
17:36:29DomonokyGodEater: its a big work to rewrite it in another Toolkit, because it uses many wxWidgets things all over, such as wxString
17:36:50GodEatertheir not just used in the GUI bit ?
17:36:58Domonokypreglow: wxString str(ascii_str, wxConvUTF8);
17:37:31Domonokythere isnt much not GUI
17:38:11jhMikeSpreglow: I do see a pattern than an adaptation of the svn strategy would work with in the Euro could use a different method for each.
17:38:16GodEaterDomonoky: fair enough. If that's the case I might just look at a fresh right of it
17:38:17Domonokyand even in the non GUI parts (like the bootloader installer funktions, there is much wxObjects, because of portability)
17:38:24GodEaterlord my brain is on strike today
17:38:35*jhMikeS regrets not have a log of which injection side was used
17:38:40linuxstbGodEater: What's wrong with wxWidgets?
17:39:02*pixelma wonders how many paths and variables there are to adjust (and exactly how) when installing tex4ht manually :\
17:39:11GodEaterlinuxstb: I'm just looking at all the problems preglow is having with it
17:39:20GodEaterI can't get rbutil to build here either
17:39:50preglowjhMikeS: i could do another one, just not right now
17:40:00Domonokyyou will also have unicode problems with for ex. Qt, but it would be better for linux, because of readymade packages..
17:40:05linuxstbGodEater: Are you having the same unicode problem, or a different one?
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17:40:37GodEaterlinuxstb: well I'm fairly confident my problem is the version of wxWidgets for my distro is v2.6, not 2.8
17:41:17jhMikeSpreglow: I'd have to add a logging of that to it but this shows promise
17:41:45linuxstbGodEater: Again, if we had chosen GTK, you would have the same problems... The hope is that 2.8 will be the standard when rbutil is finished.
17:41:54GodEaterlinuxstb: this is possibly true
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17:43:46 Quit zylche ("-")
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17:44:21jhMikeSVery strong adc reading and/or an IFC value from 0x35-0x37 tells it
17:44:26GodEaterlinuxstb: well I freely admit gentoo is lagging here. 2.8 is properly released now, it's not in beta or anything - so they're just been slow to update portage.
17:44:53preglowwhat is the ifc value?
17:45:19GodEaterit may be a dependency thing though - there are a number of things I have installed which use wxWidgets
17:45:25jac0bhas there been any headway on the sansa volume issue
17:45:40jhMikeSIt's the PLL frequency counter which is read for a fixed amount of time after it locks
17:45:55jhMikeSactuall counted for a fixed amount of time
17:46:14barrywardelljac0b: you mean how the volume is very low? we know the reason, but haven't fixed it yet
17:46:31|Rincewind|is it the normal behavior that the "view current playlist" doesn't return when starting a new track?
17:46:40jac0byeah the low volume issue
17:46:55GnelikIsn't sansa lcd driver double buffered?
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17:48:24jhMikeSpreglow: so no non-hits (no star or not in list) turned out to be good stations?
17:48:48preglownot good, no
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17:51:03jhMikeSThe technique I can think of would false hit one of those
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17:52:29barrywardelljac0b: it will be possible to fix, but with a bit more work first
17:53:44barrywardellGnelik: we write to a framebuffer in DRAM and that is copied to the lcd's internal memory by dma
17:54:26Frode_I cannot adjust the volume while playing videos in mpegplayer on sansa e270... using latest build
17:55:27jhMikeShere the IFC values can jump all over and the station can be good
17:55:59nlsFrode_: mpegplayer doesn't have a way to change the volume
17:56:11Gnelikbarrywardell: I want to write 90deg. screen rorating pathc and can not find array to rotate
17:56:22Frode_nls: ok thats what is was afraid of.. thx for info
17:56:56linuxstbGodEater: It's not just Gentoo - Debian doesn't have wx2.8 yet either...
17:57:31linuxstbbarrywardell: Is the low volume definitely a DAC issue, and not a problem with the i2s transfer truncating the samples?
17:58:33barrywardelllinuxstb: not definitely, but the DAC gain is only at 50%, which could be higher IMHO
17:58:41barrywardellmaybe it's a bit of both
17:59:03linuxstbGnelik: There's a patch (but not very nice IMO) for the Gigabeat in the patch tracker which you could use as inspiration. IIUC, both the Gigabeat and Sansa LCDs work in a similar way.
17:59:23Gneliki am looking at it now
17:59:39Gnelikbut gigabeat has double buffer
17:59:58linuxstbYes, which the patch turns into a triple-buffer...
18:00:15 Quit jac0b ("CGI:IRC")
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18:00:33Gnelikyep, the best way is to translate coordinates somehow
18:01:07 Quit petur ("dada")
18:01:10linuxstbI've just got a Gigabeat, and can now see why there is a desire to rotate the screen - the file browser could definitely benefit from being landscape.
18:01:26linuxstbAlthough I would be happy if Rockbox was permanently rotated...
18:01:27pondlifepixelma: I'm off now, but please can you post a note back if you successfully build an HTML manual..
18:01:49Gnelikbut its need code changing not only in lcd driver
18:02:10Gneliki'd like to do run time option
18:02:17amiconnGnelik: Rotating permanently should only require changing the lcd driver
18:02:23pixelmapondlife: not yet - and I'm pretty much lost in what path should be changed and stuff like that :/
18:02:33pondlifeBeen there, done that, gave up..
18:02:38pondlifeWell, ran out of time.
18:02:40amiconn(unless the lcd controller doesn't allow to choose the data entry direction)
18:02:51Gnelikamiconn but if code draw straight to the buffer
18:02:52pondlifeamiconn: When the LCD rotates, does the keymap too?
18:02:59linuxstbI'm guessing there is no documentation for these LCDs...
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18:03:13barrywardelllinuxstb: really? I think portrait works quite well on the gigabeat lcd
18:03:27LloreanBagder: You here? I need to ask a quick favour.
18:03:32Frode_Gnelik: what are you rotating for the sansa?
18:03:43amiconnGnelik: The buffer would be rotated as well. The actual rotation would happen in the buffer->lcd transfer
18:04:34amiconnNo drawing functions would need changing, only lcd_init_device, lcd_update and lcd_update_rect
18:04:36Frode_would be cool to have the whole menu / rockbox firmware rotated on the sansa, or an option to choose if you wanted it horizontal or vertical
18:04:37linuxstbbarrywardell: I've only used Rockbox on the gigabeat very briefly though - but at least the file browser would be better in landscape - I tend to have short lists with long names...
18:04:52amiconn(and lcd_yuv_blit)
18:05:07GnelikBut lcd_update calls cache_flush(); and some reg changes
18:05:11 Quit raphi ("Leaving.")
18:05:16Gnelikbut no memcpy and etc.
18:05:24barrywardelllinuxstb: i'm the opposite - long lists with short names!
18:05:36linuxstbbarrywardell: So I guess we need an option...
18:05:38GnelikOption rules
18:05:45 Quit pondlife ("disconnected has pondlife")
18:05:47jhMikeSdont' kill portrait mode please! :) it shows a lot of lines which is nice
18:05:54toffe82linuxstb: we don't found any doc on the lcd of the gigabeat, markun tried to email toshiba but nothing yet
18:05:56Lloreanlinuxstb: My lists tend to be about 50% taller than they are wide, in most cases.
18:06:00amiconnFrode_: An option would be really difficult, but a custom build which has everything rotated would be simple, if the lcd controller docs are available
18:06:01preglowDomonoky: str doesn't seem to work out of the box
18:06:16Lloreanlinuxstb: I'd definitely say that any rotation of the lists should be optional rather than forced.
18:06:22Frode_amiconn: okay
18:06:24amiconnI know it would be dead easy to rotate rockbox on H300, X5 and the colour ipods except the video
18:06:54Gnelikamiconn why do you think it would b difficult
18:07:11linuxstbLlorean: Yes, I'm not saying my lists are shorter than they are wide, just that I am happy to do more vertical scrolling if it means less horizontal scrolling of my filenames.
18:07:13Gnelikto make option
18:07:19amiconnRockbox currently relies on LCD_WIDTH and LCD_HEIGHT being constant
18:07:25amiconnRotation would break that
18:07:30jhMikeSjust use 320x320 framebuffer and switch the drawing to use the right bit of it
18:07:47Lloreanlinuxstb: Ah, actually I can agree with that, but only a very small percentage of my filenames are wider than the screen. I tend to use small fonts anyway.
18:07:59amiconnjhMikeS: The framebuffer is not the problem. The app layer is
18:08:00Lloreanlinuxstb: It all pretty much boils down to personal preference on this one, anyway.
18:08:19amiconnA 320x320 framebuffer would be a waste
18:08:33amiconnAn ipl like waste, btw
18:08:44linuxstbBut isn't most of the app layer now using the GUI API - which has the width and height of the screen as variables?
18:08:49preglowDomonoky: where the hell did you find out about it anyway? i can't find it in the wxwidgets docs
18:08:52Gnelikbut if we do LCD_WIDTH = lcd_rotated ? LCD_HEIGHT_P : LCD_WIDTH_P;
18:08:58jhMikeSbut easier I much memory is in that anyway?
18:09:16linuxstbI think we could concentrate on core Rockbox - plugins would be however the plugin author chooses to make them.
18:09:20Frode_anyone made templates ready for encoding use on TMPGEnc 4 XPress? Im trying to find the optimal settings for the sansa.
18:09:45amiconnNo matter how much resources are there, if you start wasting them, you'll end up with resources being tight before long
18:09:59amiconnIow, wasting resources is always bad
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18:10:29Gnelikamiconn Can't we do LCD_Width and height Variable at all
18:10:31linuxstbjhMikeS: There are at least 3 full-screen buffers - the main lcd framebuffer, and two backdrop buffers. A 320x240 buffer is 150KB...
18:10:33jhMikeSI'm willing to live with it if it 1) simplfies handling rotation 2) the unused buffer space can be home to something else that gets moved
18:11:07preglowDomonoky: right, it's not a function, it's a wxString constructor
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18:12:14linuxstbamiconn: I think IPL malloc their framebuffers... Although if I understood a recent IRC conversation correctly, IPL's kernel doesn't have free() implemented...
18:12:18 Join eggy [0] (n=eggy@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/yorkcc.eggy)
18:12:29Domonokypreglow: i am sorry i also dont know to much about wxWidgets..
18:12:34jhMikeSA second codec swap buffer 512KB :P
18:12:35*linuxstb hopes to be corrected on that last point
18:12:56 Quit lostnihilist ("Leaving")
18:13:19GnelikHey any thoughts of makuing lcd size valiables?
18:13:24amiconnjhMikeS: The waste is unnecessary, btw. A 320x240 frame takes the same space as a 240x320 frame, at least if depth >= 8
18:13:47jhMikeSof course...multiplication is commutative
18:13:59preglowDomonoky: sure is a lot of warnings of other natures here as well
18:14:07linuxstbGnelik: The first problem will be the build system - bitmaps are linked into Rockbox at compile-time based on LCD dimensions.
18:14:30amiconnlinuxstb: Afaics (and iirc, it's been a while since I looked at it), the ipl framebuffer is always the same size, big enough to fit the largest lcd
18:14:36*jhMikeS just want ahead changed the build system doing an 18bit rockbox for x5
18:14:58preglowclass GlobalVars????? :>
18:14:59jhMikeSwent and ahead and changed it even...boy my typing stinks
18:15:12linuxstbamiconn: OK. I'm probably just remembering framebuffers in userland applications...
18:15:13LloreanjhMikeS: Is there an advantage to 18bit (other than the obvious "2 bits" response)
18:15:49jhMikeSI never found one...but I found it comforting it only took a few hours to do
18:16:04Domonokypreglow: in this class, all the settings are saved.. (its from christi)
18:16:22Gneliklinuxstb but making another build isnt good idea too
18:16:38linuxstbGnelik: No, we don't want that.
18:16:52preglowDomonoky: oh, i know what it is, it just isn't very good c++ :)
18:16:55jhMikeSThe main advantage really is some smoother appearance
18:17:29Lloreanlinuxstb: As far as I can think of, the only bitmaps that would need to be rotated (for a rotation that just affected WPS and Lists) would be the icons and status bar?
18:17:43LloreanOr rather, the only BMPS, and I don't know if they depend on width/height anyway.
18:17:54jhMikeSbut somehow it wasn't very smooth...seemed like some things looked worse. Grayscale wouldn't suffer from greenish levels though.
18:18:09Domonokypreglow: yeah there are better methods, but i didnt want to change everything :-)
18:18:11linuxstbWell, the icons are hard-coded into Rockbox and are the same for all targets - they're not external BMPs yet.
18:18:16bluebrotherBagder: when I edit a task that has no priority set it defaults to "critical".
18:18:29 Part lavid
18:18:42Lloreanlinuxstb: That's kinda what I meant. I don't think any actual BMPs that are loaded would be rotated, would they? (Assuming the only rotations were WPS and Lists)
18:19:02bluebrothercan that be changed to default to something used more, like "low"? I already set some tasks to critical that way ...
18:19:04linuxstbIf we ignore plugins, then I don't think the bitmaps will be a problem.
18:19:11LloreanI think we can safely ignore plugins.
18:19:13*jhMikeS wants color icons
18:19:20Gnelikif we rotate buffer
18:19:30LloreanPlugins can choose which screen orientation the feel best suits their needs anyway
18:19:32linuxstbBut I would also assume the icons will be the same, regardless of screen orientation.
18:19:35Gnelikonly LCD__HEIGHT and WIDHT would be a problem
18:20:02LloreanThough one point I'd like to make, right now, is that if you allow a rotation 90 degrees, I'm going to have to insist you allow it 270 degrees so that we lefties get treated fairly. :-P
18:20:09Gnelikother things wouldn't even know that thay are rotated
18:20:18linuxstbAlthough it doesn't seem that big of a problem - looking at the code now, most of the Rockbox GUI is now in the "screens API", which initialises width and height variables with LCD_WIDTH and LCD_HEIGHT.
18:20:46linuxstbSo rotating the screen could be feasible - just reinitialise the screen api with width and height reversed.
18:20:48GnelikLlorean maybe 45 :)
18:21:20linuxstbAlthough there are a small number of screens which don't use that API yet...
18:21:29Gneliklinuxstb but defines are replaced by their values befour compilling
18:22:07jhMikeSdefine them as screens[0].width/height?
18:22:14LloreanGnelik: Yes, but as he said, they're stored in variables after that, which aren't.
18:22:24Gnelikok my bad
18:22:40LloreanI didn't catch it on my first read.
18:23:34amiconnLlorean: Leftie support is trivial if we have 90 rotation. It would just be 90 rotation plus display flip
18:24:03Lloreanamiconn: Isn't display flip a hardware feature of the LCD in most cases? We'd get a mirrored mode, rather than a flipped mode with 90 degree, no?
18:24:15linuxstbBut if the rotation is done in software, then we would need two optimised lcd_update() functions...
18:24:18LloreanOr are you talking about simply drawing "WIDTH-X" rather than to "X"
18:25:09Nico_Pisn't there already a patch to rotate the gigabeat screen ?
18:25:30linuxstbNico_P: Yes, but only at compile-time, and it's not optimal.
18:25:31jhMikeSwhat on Gigabeat need to be optimized :P or are we talking throughout?
18:25:33perl|workNico_P there's but its very weird
18:26:01Nico_Pperl|work: how ?
18:26:02linuxstbjhMikeS: As amiconn said, if we waste resources, we'll run into problems at some point...
18:26:13linuxstbEven 300MHz worth of resources...
18:26:20LloreanjhMikeS: Well, at the very least, it could arguably be worthwhile for the Sansa (if it's worthwhile for the Gigabeat) and in reality, if we do it on one, there's not a strong reason not to make it available to all, I think.
18:26:23Nico_Pi didn't try it because i'm comfortable with portrait... to me it even was a feature :)
18:26:32jhMikeSwaste or take advantage of? a fine line sometimes.
18:26:51 Quit Thundercloud_ (Connection timed out)
18:26:59linuxstbjhMikeS: You mentioned not optimizing something...
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18:28:45LloreanOn an unrelated note, would anyone care if I sought some advice to see if the default include tagnavi could be improved?
18:29:01Lloreanweb-taz: Generally speaking, we can't help until you've asked a question. :)
18:29:19web-tazI'm translating my thoughts
18:29:31nlsLlorean: go ahead, I don't use the thing anyway :-P
18:29:35*linuxstb passes web-taz a towel
18:29:47Lloreannls: I don't use it either, but I know a large portion of our population does.
18:30:17Lloreannls: Because Bascule seems to have gotten a very solid grasp on using it, I'm asking him if he feels the standard one is a good "everyman" setup, or if there were improvements that could be made to it without making it confusing.
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18:31:28web-taztowels cant help me, its a hardware defect: my h300 just fell down, and the cable from the battery disassociated
18:31:40nlsLlorean: yes, it sounds like a good idea, I don't think most of our users even realize they can customize it and if they do we can't expect everyone to learn the syntag stuff
18:31:45linuxstbA towel would have cusihioned the fall...
18:31:46web-tazand i just don't know where to put it
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18:32:34jhMikeSlinuxstb: sort of an off the cuff remark :)
18:32:56linuxstbweb-taz: Maybe the photos on this page would help -
18:32:59Lloreannls: Yes, I think a good, solid default one is a good idea. That being said, when I've tried it, it looks decent enough as it is, but since I'm not familiar with what can be done, I don't know if there's room to improve.
18:33:06Lloreannls: Which is why I went to an expert. :)
18:33:38jhMikeSlets just have gigabeat run rb in Java and I'm sure noone will notice
18:34:13LloreanjhMikeS: I think the idea was interpreted basic
18:34:47 Part vcardenas
18:34:52*linuxstb starts thinking about porting emulators to the GB, but remembers he has more important things to do
18:34:54web-tazthe problem is that it disassociated at the battery...
18:35:20perl|worklandscape mode option on gigabeat would be nice if done from the menu
18:35:24perl|worknot on boot stage
18:35:30nlsweb-taz: buy a new battery...
18:35:39preglowDomonoky: think i'm nearing the finish now
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18:35:44Lloreanlinuxstb: Give me SNES and I will worship you as a minor deity.
18:35:45web-tazit is a new one
18:35:47preglowi'll be very surprised if this works afterwards
18:36:17*linuxstb checks the specs of the SNES
18:36:24perl|workeven just for that CASSETTE WPS :P
18:36:26Lloreanweb-taz: Is the battery simply unplugged? I'm having certain difficulties understanding what exactly is wrong.
18:36:49webguest88One quick question. Is there any supported player that can be plugged into power and play music at the same time?
18:36:55Lloreanlinuxstb: I've played SNES games on PDAs with less power (I think) than the Gigabeat, so my mind says "It's possible" and also "It's a tremendous waste of developer manpower, but oh so sweet"
18:37:06Lloreanwebguest88: All of them.
18:37:17LloreanAt least, I can't think of any that can't.
18:37:40web-tazthe cable did not disassociate (is there another word for this large one?) on the side of the h300 but on the battery's side
18:38:07web-tazan i just dont know where at the battery the cable should be placed
18:38:08 Quit [IDC]Dragon ("CGI:IRC")
18:38:09Lloreanweb-taz: When you tried to remove the power cable (the one that runs to the wall) part of it remained in the player?
18:38:13webguest88LLorean: I have a ipod nano, if it's plugged into power it does the USB switch and blinks into the original firmware.
18:38:27 Join juxtap [0] (
18:38:31Lloreanwebguest88: Try holding "Menu" while inserting the cable.
18:38:42Lloreanwebguest88: Though if you're using a new enough build, most wall power supplies should not cause this.
18:38:59webguest88wonderbra... erm wonderful even ;)
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18:39:17juxtaphey, if i plug my rockbox ipod into usb, and use it as an external drive to play mp3s, is that bad in any way for it??
18:39:24nlsLlorean: I think he says that the cable came off the actual battery
18:39:25preglowDomonoky: yeah, i got it to build, but it crashes
18:39:27 Quit pearldiver (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:39:37Lloreannls: That's what I thought at first, but I'm beginning to doubt.
18:39:39juxtap(ie. access the music with winamp or whatever)
18:39:47preglowDomonoky: *** glibc detected *** ./rbutil: munmap_chunk(): invalid pointer: 0x0000000000a30e38 ***
18:39:53nlswell, I'm not _sure_ :-)
18:40:18Lloreanjuxtap: Overall, probably not, though the drives in them are not necessarily meant for constant access. If the player becomes too warm and stays that way it may not be healthy for the battery, and that would be I think your biggest concern.
18:40:24nlsjuxtap: not really, but your battery will become empty quite quick
18:40:28Lloreannls: It's unclear, which is why I asked for more information. :)
18:40:33preglowDomonoky: what the patch?
18:42:05Lloreanjuxtap: Basically, try it, if it starts getting warm and staying warm, you may want to reconsider, but it's probably okay
18:42:07 Quit webguest88 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
18:42:18 Quit web-taz ("( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )")
18:42:22Lloreanjuxtap: And if you boot it into the apple firmware, it'll probably charge fine while you do it.
18:42:51juxtapyeah, but it charges automatically when plugged in? so i'll just play it until it gets unhealthily warm
18:43:09 Quit FOAD ("I'll be back")
18:44:11Lloreanjuxtap: It probably won't, as long as winamp doesn't stream the files from disk.
18:44:11BagderLlorean: here now for a short while
18:44:12juxtapLlorean, apple firmware? but then how will i access the drive? what you mean...
18:44:28Lloreanjuxtap: Reboot into Apple, then plug in the cable, so you're in the color disk mode.
18:44:55linuxstbBagder: Would moving things like rbutil and the manual into separate SVN modules (with their own revision numbers, I'm not sure of the SVN terminology) solve the rebuilding problem?
18:45:13LloreanBagder: Yeah, but you seemed to be away. I wanted to make my flyspray account Llorean too so that my name is consistent everywhere. I created a Llorean one, and just wanted to get it added to the dev list, and then remove the DarkkOne one.
18:45:22Bagderlinuxstb: yes, that's one way to deal with it
18:45:28LloreanBagder: Having a name people recognize helps a bit.
18:45:45juxtapLlorean, am i missing something? i don't want to use apple. my pc won't recognise my ipod as an external drive.
18:45:46Domonokypreglow: jeah patch would be nice
18:46:12Lloreanjuxtap: Well, Rockbox just uses 'Disk Mode', which is a hardware mode similar to the connected mode that the Apple software uses. We don't have our own USB on the iPod yet.
18:46:30BagderLlorean: Llorean added
18:47:19LloreanBagder: Thanks. Having the same name everywhere would've been a good idea from the start, perhaps. :)
18:47:21linuxstbBagder: But you would prefer not to split SVN?
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18:47:57Bagderlinuxstb: yes, I'd rather write a script to detect the "interesting" changes
18:48:24preglowDomonoky: basically just a bunch of wxT, plus i modified the md5 function to take char*. there's no reason for that to take wxString, it'll always return ascii
18:48:44 Join lavid [0] (
18:48:51Domonokyoki, thx for the patch..
18:49:19preglowDomonoky: like i said, it crashes here, but i think it does so in the same way as the old prebuilt binary i had, so is probably our code that is buggy
18:49:19crash91guys; i have a question about installing rockbox, in the wiki it mentions this: "in some versions of the Sansa firmware, they renamed the mi4 file they look for to 'firmware.mi4'"
18:49:25preglowDomonoky: since this is amd64
18:49:31crash91and it saysa to try with a renamed file
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18:50:02crash91can someone explain this? do we remove the sansa from USB?
18:50:05Domonokyjeah the same crash, i heard also from other, dont know what causes this..
18:51:30crash91do we remove the sansa from the USB to rename? how because the bootloader hasnt been installed
18:53:24preglowDomonoky: just check if it still works with you, then commit it or something
18:53:31preglowDomonoky: and see if i've done something stupid
18:54:04linuxstbcrash91: Just try with the default "pp5024.mi4" filename first, and if it doesn't work, rename it to "firmware.mi4".
18:54:32linuxstbcrash91: But have you done the first two steps successfully?
18:55:02 Quit topbloke ("bye")
18:55:13crash91i havent put anything on my sansa as of yet...i am fully preparing to get rockbox on it
18:55:20crash91so i dont screw anything up =D
18:56:02Domonokypreglow: will do
18:56:22crash91ive decrypted the orirginal firmware, put rockdoom.wad on the unzipped version of rockbox thats it for now
18:57:40crash91linuxstb:got it...i didnt understand something =p
18:58:26crash91linuxstb: Ill report back when i (hopefully) successfully install Rockbox
18:59:19linuxstbcrash91: Or if you're happy to wait a few days, there should hopefully be a new, dead-simple, install procedure.
19:00:36crash91are they making an installer? and will it be before sunday?? I cant wait to put Rockbox on my sansa
19:01:32Lloreancrash91: A tool that will do all the bootloader installation stuff for you is being worked on. Then you just need to extract the, run the tool, and you're done.
19:01:33 Quit kaaloo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:03:50crash91Llorean: Heh....idc....ill go through with it now , ill report when finished. Is there any chance of anything going wrong? (I have understod everything the installer instructions say)
19:04:32linuxstbcrash91: Past experience shows that lots of things can go wrong... But if you follow the instructions precisely, it should be fine.
19:05:05 Quit Frode_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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19:05:28crash91linuxstb: Doing it word for word....ive been waiting since december. I heard about rockbox a week after i got my sansa and have wanted to install it ever since.
19:05:51crash91linuxstb: its gonna be amazing =D
19:06:09linuxstbBe warned it's still in a very early stage though. last question..
19:09:05crash91how do we update rockbox with the latest builds? just replace .rockbox and rockbox.e200?
19:09:20lavidcrash91: but you need to boot into OF since usb doesn't work yet
19:10:01linuxstbcrash91: Yes - you only need to do the bootloader installation once (unless new bootloaders are released, which happen very rarely).
19:10:50crash91thanks a lot for your help
19:11:04 Quit Ribs ("eh eh ehhhh!")
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19:11:21crash91ill report on the installation in a while
19:12:10 Quit chris_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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19:13:36 Quit barrywardell (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:13:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:13:50 Quit Amblin ()
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19:14:03crash91copied OF.bin, copied .rockbox, copied rockbox.e200
19:14:24crash91copied OF.bin, copied .rockbox, copied rockbox.e200
19:15:06crash91copied bootloader.....
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19:16:00crash91*takes deep breath and removes cable*
19:16:51*_Amblin crosses fingers
19:17:01crash91*updrage completed*
19:17:15crash91OMG IT WORKS!!!!!!!
19:17:24crash91I LOVE ROCKBOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! W000000T
19:17:52_AmblinWell before you start celebrating, turn the player off and attempt to boot into the original firmware.
19:18:14crash91data abort at 00041428
19:18:25_AmblinTurn it off and try again.
19:18:27crash91nothings working...restarting
19:18:38_AmblinI believe some people have that issue first time you boot rockbox.
19:18:55_AmblinIt seems to only appear once, then go away.
19:19:14crash91you hold |<< as soon as tyhe player boots right?
19:19:31crash91got it
19:19:36_AmblinOk :)
19:19:46crash91i feel like hugging someone lol
19:20:03*_Amblin hands crash a pillow to hug.
19:20:12crash91does battey monitoring work accurately? lol
19:20:33_AmblinNo, at this point, not at all.
19:20:38crash91because original firmware says half-full, but rockbox says low battery
19:20:40nlsno, the port is in a very early stage
19:20:46crash91oh i thought it worked
19:20:47_AmblinBut I believe someone is working on it.
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19:21:20crash91i think it says it works on the port page
19:21:35 Part toffe82
19:21:53crash91power handling:tick, not yet optimal
19:21:56crash91there we go
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19:22:24 Join Ice8lue [0] (
19:22:35crash91when do you think rockbox is gonna be released proper? a month?
19:22:45Ice8luegood evening
19:22:52nlsnot that soon, that's for sure :-)
19:23:18crash91well, ill wait
19:23:28crash91i have a whole new firmware to explore =D
19:23:31nlsand for the sansa I would be _very_ surprised if it is released within a year from now
19:23:37_AmblinNot until atleast USB handling is developed, and without the all important docs it could take a while.
19:23:39crash91and good evening ice
19:23:56crash91yeah...USB is the most important thing right now
19:24:34Ice8luei think that wont take that long
19:24:39|Rincewind|if someone wants to test my rec button config patch, I just uploaded a new version to Flyspray:
19:25:23_AmblinWell, the iPod still doesnt have USB handling (though no lack of effort), and they are based on the same chip as the sansa.
19:25:25nlscrash91, Ice8lue the iriver h100 players have been supported by rockbox since 2005 and work very nicely, yet we haven't released for them
19:26:00_AmblinSo I guess as soon as the iPod gets USB support, so will the Sansa.
19:26:24linuxstbI'm sure it will be developed for all PortalPlayer targets together.
19:26:25Ice8lueits just the question what is called a "release"...if it works, it is ok, no matter if it is THAT build or just a daily
19:30:53crash91nls: ok
19:31:15crash91my dad was being pessimistic about the install but now hes stuck playing chess on it lol
19:32:38crash91any one know how to change the font size?
19:33:03Domonokyinstall the fontpackage
19:33:12crash91ok will do
19:33:13Domonoky then change font, or better the theme
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19:33:45crash91Thanks a lot for the help you guys....and well done rockbox =D
19:33:56crash91ill edit the .cfg
19:34:02crash91well bye =)
19:34:06 Quit crash91 ("CGI:IRC")
19:38:47 Quit bluey- (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:39:55Ice8lueanyone knows a good site where to get sansa wps?
19:39:58 Join bluey- [0] ( , or the wiki
19:40:45Domonokyor rbutil :-)
19:41:04 Join aikon [0] (
19:41:48Domonokythat a new work in progress install for rockbox, (can install bootloader,rockbox, fonts and themes)
19:42:04Domonokybut it doesnt support the sansa, at moment :-)
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19:42:21Ice8luewell installing them isnt the problem....finding them is^^ there are just 4 atm
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19:42:59perl|workalready BlackGlass for Sansa!
19:43:07perl|workgigabeat never got its BlackGlass
19:43:12Ice8luethats what im using atm
19:43:50DomonokySansa is new, so there arent to many wps there, you could make your own :-)
19:44:05Ice8luewell...i tried but am not good in that
19:44:25perl|workid say gigabeat WPS'es are the "ugliest" ones from the whole bunch :)
19:46:57PaulJamSlasheri: are you there?
19:47:31 Quit bluey^ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:47:37Lloreanperl|work: Cabbie, with a slight modification or two, is more than good enough for me
19:48:42amiconnM5L runtime test result: 51:57
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19:50:31Ice8luewhat's M5L?
19:51:01amiconniAudio M5L
19:51:14Ice8lueah ok
19:51:39perl|workLlorean yeah but theres no "slick" factor to all of them, like some of those in ipod video gallery
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19:52:37Crash91guys, where can i get blackglass for the sansa
19:52:40*amiconn thinks this is the battery runtime record for rockbox targets
19:52:53perl|workamiconn where?
19:52:56 Quit Aikon_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:54:17perl|work51 hour?
19:54:27perl|workhow come?">
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19:55:08amiconnConditions: 192kbps mp3, no backlight, linear output at 0dB
19:55:18JavaMan22hi linuxstb
19:55:32linuxstbHello JavaMan22
19:55:49Crash91Ice8lue: Thanks
19:55:59perl|workamiconn thats crazy
19:56:04Ice8lueCrash91: np
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19:56:55Crash91Ice8lue: What do you thinks is the best theme for the sansa?
19:57:35perl|workout of 4?
19:57:49perl|workyou can just get them all and try in a matter of 30 seconds
19:57:51Ice8lueCrash91: well...dont know. i think rockamp is cool and blackglass too...but this anemone wp is.....not my favour^^ what do u think?
19:58:22Crash91omg exactly the same lol there a way to change the background?
19:58:43perl|workultimate rockbox wps?
19:58:56Crash91just replace the backdrop?
19:59:10 Quit Crash91 ("CGI:IRC")
19:59:15Ice8lueCrash91: backdrop means the backround for the menus
19:59:21 Join Crash91 [0] (i=c4dbb9df@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
19:59:30Ice8lueCrash91: backdrop means the backround for the menus
19:59:34Crash91perl: i already saw that...but where to get it??
19:59:52Crash91yeah i wanna chnage the anemone thing
19:59:54perl|workits work in progress
20:00:07 Quit Zagor ("Leaving")
20:00:09perl|workit takes a lot of patches to make it work properly
20:00:12Crash91when it comes out..ill get it then =)
20:00:39Ice8lueperl|work: so how far is it?
20:00:56Crash91not mentioned on the forum
20:01:01perl|workauthor says its finished, he just needs a build with the patches he listed
20:01:14perl|workbut i think almost all of them are out of sync with svn now
20:01:36JavaMan22why does iboy run so slowly
20:01:39|Rincewind|Crash91: you can look in the folder where the images of the patch are and find the image and replace it. Just make sure you use an image with the exact same dimensions
20:01:44JavaMan22i mean
20:01:53|Rincewind|with patch I mean theme, sorry
20:02:04LloreanJavaMan22: Because it needs optimized.
20:02:15Crash91thats what i was gonna do ^_^ anyone have any cool image suggestions??
20:02:30JavaMan22so it can be faster?
20:02:33 Quit _ke ("Leaving")
20:02:34Ice8lueCrash91: am also searching...
20:02:44Ice8luelook at
20:02:52amiconnThe X5/M5 discharge curve is off by "miles"....
20:03:11JavaMan22linuxstb i did make rocks
20:03:16JavaMan22and i got errors
20:03:26JavaMan22what is the paste bin website
20:03:44*Nico_P is coming close to having fully working WPSs :)
20:03:59linuxstbNico_P: Are you talking about a WPS token parser?
20:04:02Ice8luewow Nico_P^^
20:04:05Nico_Plinuxstb: yes
20:04:16linuxstbNico_P: Then hurray :)
20:04:43Ice8luedont like it
20:04:44Nico_Pi have rewritten the drawing functions and now my WPSs are starting to be pretty again
20:04:58Nico_Pi just got alignment to work
20:05:02linuxstbNico_P: So is the code looking simpler?
20:05:26Nico_Plinuxstb: i think it does, but after all it's my code :)
20:05:27perl|workNico_P you're making WPS'es too?
20:05:35Crash91not bad:
20:05:41Nico_Pperl|work: no, just rewriting the code that displays WPSs
20:05:50perl|workah :P
20:05:51linuxstbJavaMan22: Does it work if you just type "make" by itself?
20:06:11JavaMan22i will try
20:06:23Nico_Pi still need to get scrolling, sublines, and the ability to refresh only some information
20:06:53Nico_Pscrolling and sublines should be quite easy
20:06:57linuxstbNico_P: Something you may like to work on (or not...) is loading bmp files from a .tar file - I posted a patch to do that on flyspray, but it requires the bmp files to be in the same order as they are listed in the .wps file. Maybe you can think of an efficient way to fix that....
20:07:55Nico_Plinuxstb: i'll probably try to think about it but but it's not really related to my current work
20:08:24linuxstbNico_P: No, but it requires understanding of the WPS code in order to do it well...
20:08:36Crash91like it or not?
20:08:49Nico_Plinuxstb: yes, i'll probably sart working on it when i finish the parsing and displaying part
20:08:57linuxstbNico_P: But anyway, I thought I would mention it.
20:09:01Nico_Pmaybe on a GSoC project :)
20:09:07Ice8luewell...i think its too dark
20:09:24Crash91yeah true
20:09:37Crash91this looks cool:
20:09:44linuxstbJavaMan22: Do you have a "fonts" directory? It should be at the same level as tools, apps, firmware, etc in your rockbox directory.
20:10:02Ice8lueya thats cool
20:10:12Crash91you using it? im gonna
20:10:17JavaMan22no i dont
20:10:29JavaMan22wait yes i do
20:10:48Ice8luewhat about this one?
20:10:58linuxstbJavaMan22: Then I'm afraid I'm not sure what the problem is...
20:11:32Nico_Plinuxstb: would profiling help me see if my code is mort efficient than the current one and optimise it ?
20:11:35JavaMan22i dont get why i tryed with two computers
20:11:51JavaMan22do you know anyone who can compile on windows?
20:12:00linuxstbAh, but there's one problem - you're using an old version of arm-elf-gcc - "arm-elf-gcc 3.4.3". The recommended version is 4.0.3.
20:12:01Crash91not bad...but im not much of a green person =p
20:12:08Crash91i like blue lol
20:12:13Ice8lueCrash91: No ill use this one =):
20:12:21JavaMan22how do i download that
20:12:49linuxstbI don't use Cygwin, so don't know. The wiki should have instructions for that.
20:12:55Ice8lueor this?
20:13:01Ice8luedamn, cant decide^^
20:13:18Crash91how about this?
20:13:26Crash91i have it on my wall im my bedroom =D
20:13:38linuxstbNico_P: Maybe. I've never used Rockbox's profiling features though.
20:14:09Nico_Pi'd need help from someone with a bit of experience
20:14:17Nico_Plinuxstb: do you know who that could be ?
20:14:28JavaMan22if i run the cygwin installer will it delete my cygwin
20:14:45JavaMan22im about to install the arm thing by itself
20:15:00Crash91im otrn between the phoenix one and the dragon
20:15:08linuxstbJavaMan22: No, running the setup again lets you upgrade your current install and add new packages.
20:17:00JavaMan22erm i dont know what item to choose
20:17:04Crash91this one is pretty cool too, maybe if you cut off the right bit....
20:17:14nlsNico_P: I think lostlogic was the one who put profiling in...
20:17:23JavaMan22theres no arm-elf-gcc in devel
20:17:52 Quit bluey- ("Leaving")
20:17:53Nico_Phmm i don't see him around much
20:18:12Crash91@Ice8lue: check this out:
20:18:14linuxstbJavaMan22: I think you need to add the Rockbox website as a source for files. As I said, the wiki should explain it.
20:18:55JavaMan22im using the wiki
20:19:13linuxstbJavaMan22: Step 3) here -
20:19:54JavaMan22wait im on that page
20:20:45Crash91Ice: im going to use this one and alternate between the other three, if you cant choose one, have all of em =D
20:21:16JavaMan22im using the tutorial with images :D
20:21:24 Quit Ice8lue (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
20:23:09JavaMan22linuxstb how come i cant select the version you were talking about
20:23:33JavaMan22it only has 3.4.4-3
20:24:55 Quit PaulJam (".")
20:25:32JavaMan22nvm i see something
20:26:01 Quit perl|work (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
20:26:08 Join Ice8lue [0] (
20:26:47Crash91hey ice
20:26:54 Join perl|work [0] (
20:28:09JavaMan22downloading :D
20:28:24 Join anathema [0] (
20:28:25Crash91np, im uploading an image i made in photoshop recently
20:28:27Crash91will give link soon
20:28:40Crash91i think it looks cool =p
20:28:43JavaMan22do people work on rockboy alot?
20:28:54nlsnot really, no
20:28:56LloreanJavaMan22: When someone is interested, they work on it.
20:29:01Crash91do you use stumbleupon?
20:29:18JavaMan22wats this download incomplete
20:29:20LloreanJavaMan22: The main developers work on things we generally consider "core" such as audio playback features, and bug fixes in the audio and main menu code.
20:29:32Crash91stumble upon
20:29:42Crash91do u use firefox?
20:29:42Ice8luewhats that?
20:29:46JavaMan22is it hard to optimize it