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#rockbox log for 2007-04-10

00:03:58 Quit My_Sic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:05:27 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:05:50 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
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00:06:14 Quit entheh ("^~")
00:06:42 Quit davina ("byeeeeee!")
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00:10:00 Quit tvelocity ("Αποχώρησε")
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00:15:15stripwaxNico_P - if you're reading this, it looks like the recent wps commit didn't fix the problem after all. So scrolling next-track metadata works ok but scrolling other dynamic data (e.g. time elapsed) no longer seems to update.
00:19:59stripwaxI've request the task to be reopened.
00:21:40 Quit cadu (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:22:10Lloreanstripwax: I've reopened it for you then.
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00:35:34 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
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00:48:10*amiconn wonders why petur doesn't use letoh16() for sample loading, instead of ifdefing
00:48:52Lloreanamiconn: I think those macros have been overlooked several times in the past for other things as well.
00:48:53peturbecause he doesn't know about it?
00:48:53amiconn...and you don't need to #ifdef rb->lcd_update() anymore
00:49:06amiconn(besides the plugin isn't for charcell anyway)
00:49:27peturoh, did I miss one - thought I removed them all
00:49:40amiconnIn fact you not only don't need to, but you shouldn't
00:49:55peturany more critics? ;)
00:50:20amiconnletoh16() is a macro, which expands to swap16() for be targets, and to identity for le targets
00:50:31amiconnSee system.h
00:50:44peturwill try, thanks
00:51:06LloreanAre there other useful macros like the Endian macros, that do important but common things, that maybe we should just list somewhere (assuming they aren't)?
00:52:27amiconnpetur: Yes. There are some C++-style comments (I don't mean TODOs, where I also often do this deliberately, and a strange comment in line 40
00:53:08peturhmmm leftovers
00:55:22 Quit ender` (" And the Lord said unto John: Come forth and receive eternal life. But John came fifth and won a toaster.")
00:55:53peturalways fun when ender` leaves
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00:58:31 Join safetydan [0] (i=cbca159f@rockbox/developer/safetydan)
00:59:53 Quit moos ("Glory to Rockbox")
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01:04:33 Join pl1 [0] (
01:05:09 Join TrueJournals [0] (
01:06:10pl1So I am running rockbox on my 20gb 4g greyscale ipod. My workstation is a Linux box. Any suggestions for an application to manage my MP3s on the iPod. The only thing I really miss from iTunes is smart playlists.
01:07:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:08:14 Join Forte [0] (
01:08:21Stalwartafaik it had some playlist generation thingie
01:08:42Forteif i put rockbox on my ipod video and i dont like it
01:08:50Fortecan i go back to the apple interface
01:09:02Stalwartyes, just allow itunes to "repair" it
01:09:02peturyou can even dual-boot
01:09:21Fortehow hard is it to put it on there
01:09:46Fortei was gonna put it on my mini
01:09:48Stalwartit's put by default
01:09:50Fortebut i think it completly died
01:10:11Stalwartrockbox bootloader allows to boot rockbox or original firmware
01:10:31Stalwartbut i'm pretty sure you'll use rockbox, it's good ;)
01:10:32Fortewhere is the downloader
01:10:50Fortethe main reason im asking is if i break it
01:10:54Fortei can go back to original
01:11:00Forteto send it back
01:11:06Stalwartyou can't break ipod by manipulating with firmware
01:11:20Fortei broke my mini by dropping it
01:11:24Forteit sometimes works
01:11:31Fortetoday isnt one of those days
01:11:50peturunless you break it so you can't switch it on again to remove rockbox.... the risk is always there... but what's life without any risk?
01:11:54Stalwartin worst case your ipod will show "please repair me using itunes" screen
01:12:17Forteso does it nativlely support mp3s and multiple video formats?
01:12:19LloreanIf you physically break your iPod by dropping it, that should invalidate most warranties anyway.
01:12:24Stalwarti was even doing tripple-boot (appleos + rockbox + linux) on my nano
01:12:51Soap2Forte: you don't need to use itunes to restore your ipod if you don't like rockbox
01:13:05Soap2the bootloader installer has an uninstall option.
01:13:37Soap2the manual has instructions and links for all your install needs
01:13:57Fortemainly im sick of the way i have to keep my tunes
01:14:04Fortecopy and paste music folder
01:14:13Fortethen you gotta have itunes organize
01:14:16Fortewaste of time
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01:14:34 Quit petur ("ZzzzzzZzzzzz")
01:14:40 Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
01:14:48Soap2well, you can drag-and-drop with rockbox. Though if itunes is your only complaint there are plenty of other management programs which replace itunes.
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01:15:17Soap2Rockboxand your mini and video don't go hand-in-hand.
01:15:43Soap2unless I've missed something and it's B/W screen is now supported for video.
01:15:51Forteno no
01:15:54Fortei have an ipod video
01:15:58Forteand an ipod mini thats broken
01:16:01 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
01:16:08LloreanVideo doesn't play well on the iPod Video.
01:16:29LloreanThe processor in it is quite slow.
01:16:57LloreanThere's a special chip for video decoding, but it can't be used by us yet, and isn't likely to be for a long time, if ever.
01:17:20Fortelol ok
01:17:26Forteso thats what dual booting is for
01:17:26LloreanWhat's funny?
01:17:41LloreanAlso, Rockbox only supports one video format. There's no good reason for multi-format support.
01:18:04ForteI downloaded the .zip
01:18:08Fortebut I cant figure it out
01:18:25TrueJournalsread the manual
01:18:28Soap2No, dual booting is because Rockbox supports everything it can. You can dual boot the Mini, as well, even though it doesn't have video.
01:18:49Soap2The manual is most excellent.
01:18:49LloreanForte: Seriously, read the manual.
01:19:16TrueJournalsThat's one of the things I love about rockbox. The manual is awesome because normal people write it
01:19:39TrueJournalsAnd then if it doesn't make sense to someone... it can easily be edited
01:19:51scorcheas opposed to mutated ghosts of their former selves people?
01:19:58 Quit Stalwart (Remote closed the connection)
01:20:17TrueJournalsas opposed to a company that writes something that no one can understand :-p
01:20:31TrueJournalsEverything is just well documented and in simple terms
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01:21:53LloreanNot everyone would agree with that statement.
01:22:00TrueJournalseh :-\
01:22:09TrueJournalsCan never please everyone
01:22:13LloreanUnfortunately, those people who tend to think the manual is too complicated never seem to be able to tell us how we could give the same information in a simpler way.
01:22:30Forteok I am confused on part of the manual
01:22:41TrueJournalsperfect timing ;-)
01:22:44Fortedo I extract the contents of .rockbox
01:22:51Forteor just put .rockbox in there
01:23:05TrueJournals.rockbox is a folder... and it should remain a folder
01:23:06ForteOh no, the manual is great!
01:23:09Soap2put the whole folder, extracting the .zip file will do that for you.
01:23:11Forteok thanks
01:24:42ForteOh, I notice the Win32 thing
01:24:46ForteI am running Win64
01:24:50Forteshould it still work
01:25:26Fortethe answer was yes
01:26:02 Quit robin0800 (" HydraIRC -> <- Try something fresh")
01:26:35Fortealmost skipped a step
01:26:37Fortedamn my bad
01:26:45Fortecan I say that here
01:26:51Forteif not im sorry
01:26:58Fortei have the mouth of a sailor
01:28:49LloreanHonestly, in my slightly obsessive-compulsive nature, "My bad" bothers me more than "damn". ;)
01:28:56Soap2Many people miss the fonts, why do you think you do.
01:29:08Fortei dunno
01:29:09pl1how do I switch an iPod into disk mode?
01:29:12Soap2? I'm curious why many people seem to ignore that step.
01:29:30Soap2pl1: depends on the ipod
01:29:36LloreanSoap2: Probably the same reason people skip the "Installing the Firmware" step.
01:29:36pl1Soap2: human nature an extra obvious step is ignored
01:30:09LloreanPeople assume that the "Bootloader" bit is the start, or people assume that 'Bootloader+Firmware, what else could there be?'
01:30:10pl1Soap2: er optional not obvious
01:30:10pl1Soap2: it is a 4g
01:30:49Soap2Menu+Select to hard reboot, as soon as the apple logo flashes upon your screen select+play.
01:31:18Fortehey it told me to reboot
01:31:20Forteand uh
01:31:35Forteit didnt work the old way
01:31:53TrueJournalsI'm a bit curious... how do you shut down rockbox on an ipod, and what exactly does that do?
01:31:58Fortenever mind
01:34:32Soap2TrueJournals: long press of play powers off.
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01:34:44Soap2TrueJournals: whereas in the apple firmware it goes to sleep mode.
01:34:52Fortewow drag and drop rocks
01:35:17TrueJournalsSoap2: So, it really just shuts everything down on the ipod?
01:37:09Fortecongrats on rocking guys
01:37:11Soap2as opposed to...?
01:37:34Forteuh, not rocking
01:37:43TrueJournalsWas that to me?
01:38:06TrueJournalsAs opposed to sleeping like the apple firmware does :-p
01:38:44Soap2that takes much more in-depth knowledge of undocumented hardware.
01:39:05Soap2and it would be the first Rockbox target (?) to sleep.
01:39:13Fortenow how do you boot into normal ipod
01:39:16Fortejust wondering
01:40:41Soap2Forte: reboot, and toggle the hold switch on as soon as it reboots.
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01:43:08Forte is the image that brought me to this in the first place, how do you do that
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01:43:39TrueJournalsForte: you have an iPod Video?
01:43:45Soap2unsupported build and jblackglass theme.
01:44:10Forteyes i do
01:44:32TrueJournals - you can find all the information there
01:45:50Soap2all the info except the actual build and the fact the build is massively out-O'-date
01:46:18TrueJournalsSoap2: "but please note you'll need my latest rockbox prebuild binnary! (look for rockbox-jbuild-YYYYMMDD-$yourdevice$.tar.gz)" - it has information on how to obtain the build
01:46:45Fortewhat is a tar.gz file
01:46:59TrueJournalsLatest looks like from March 22... it is pretty out of date
01:47:14Soap2I stand corrected on point #1
01:47:18TrueJournalsForte: It's a different type of file compression. A program like WinRAR will handle it with no problem
01:47:33Fortei love windows vista
01:47:43Fortei am doing a mod soon for my psp to have a vista feel
01:47:45TrueJournalsI don't :-p
01:47:48Forteand now im gonna do one for ipod
01:49:04amiconnBagder: It seems that something is wrong with .lang dependencies
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01:50:31amiconnJust 'make' failed because onplay.c didn't find LANG_ONPLAY_MENU_TITLE, which is because make didn't catch the changed english.lang in order to produce a fresh lang.h
01:57:27Soap27zip is free
01:57:32Soap2(WinRAR is not)
01:57:54TrueJournalsWhatever floats your boat
01:58:12TrueJournalsWinRAR is just the first thing that comes to mind for that... :-\
01:58:27Soap2Encouraging commercial software when there are free alternatives...which do all the same and more...
01:58:39TrueJournalsTrue... 7zip is very nice
02:02:24LloreanI have found that WinRAR is more capable at handling older multi-part RARs.
02:02:33LloreanOnes that are technically invalid, I believe.
02:02:37LloreanBut that's neither here nor there.
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02:15:07Rcholla32WAts up ya
02:15:43Rcholla32I Got My Sansa E250 RMA its gonna be here tommorrow
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02:38:30***Alert Mode level 1
02:38:30***Alert Mode level 2
02:38:30DBUGEnqueued KICK hannesd_
02:38:30DBUGEnqueued KICK hannesd__
02:38:30***Alert Mode level 3
02:44:28 Join donutman25 [0] (n=chatzill@
02:44:47 Quit Forte ("What the hells a Jigawatt?!")
02:45:18donutman25how do i adjust the pitch and tempo on the sansa e200? i looked al over the manual and could not find it
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02:48:31***Alert Mode OFF
02:50:22TrueJournalsPress the submenu key
02:50:35TrueJournalswhile in the WPS, press the submenu key
02:50:47TrueJournalsthat should give you a menu and one of the options should be pitch
02:51:50donutman25TrueJournals: I see no pitch in the menu
02:52:04TrueJournalshold on a second...
02:52:29TrueJournalsWhat are your options in that menu?
02:53:09TrueJournalsThey should be Sound Settings, Playlist, Playlist Catalog, etc...
02:53:55donutman25sound settings
02:53:59donutman25playlist catalog
02:54:01donutman25show id3 info
02:54:03donutman25open with...
02:54:06donutman25graphical eq
02:54:06donutman25browse eq presets
02:54:19TrueJournalsRight under open with... should be pitch... hmm. that's weird
02:54:22TrueJournalslet me check something
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02:55:36TrueJournalsdonutman25: When did you last update?
02:55:38LloreanTrueJournals: Are you using an e200?
02:55:43LloreanIt's not available on all players.
02:55:53donutman255 minutes ago
02:56:09TrueJournalsLlorean: No I'm not... that's what I figured but since it was in the manual and there wasn't a bug report, I thought it was in there
02:56:19TrueJournalsIt should be removed from the manual if it's not avaliable
02:57:11TrueJournalsdonutman25: guess you're out of luck...
02:57:22donutman25thanks anyway
02:57:49barrywardelli think the pitchscreen could easily be added for the sansa
02:58:02barrywardellI'd imagine anyway....
02:59:14LloreanTrueJournals: I thought he said he couldn't find it in the manual.
02:59:41Lloreanbarrywardell: It probably just needs a keymap. The Sansa badly, badly needs some keymap revision in my mind though.
02:59:44donutman25i looked in the manual twice but could not find it
02:59:54angusthefuzzi asked this yesterday but it looks like new people are around: The new build of the sansa e200 port corrupts the topmost line of pixels on my player for both the rockbox and factory firmware. This is not the case when only the factory firmware is installed.
02:59:59barrywardellLlorean: in what way?
03:00:01LloreanI really don't like having a single press lead to the context menu, and a different button lead to the normal menu
03:00:34TrueJournals - If you scroll down a bit, you'll see "pitch"
03:00:39TrueJournalsIt's definantly in there
03:00:56TrueJournalsAlong with keys describing how to use it...
03:01:09barrywardellLlorean: the keymap was made before rockbox was even running on the sansa, so you're probably right that there could be a better choice
03:01:42Lloreanbarrywardell: It's mostly what's assigned to the Power button and the "Playlist" button, or whatever you choose to call the one at the bottom of the wheel
03:01:46barrywardellangusthefuzz: that's a known problem. there is a forum thread about it and I think a bug report too
03:02:07angusthefuzzcould you point me to the thread? I am an avid C programmer
03:02:14angusthefuzzi would love to help
03:02:19Lloreanangusthefuzz: Is your Sansa the 1.0 or 1.1 hardware? This is suspected to be an issue with the 1.1 hardware,
03:02:30donutman25guess i didnt look hard enough )
03:02:38angusthefuzz1.1 hardware (new scrollwheel) what else is different?
03:02:53 Quit blithe ("Be right back.")
03:03:03barrywardellLlorean: I guess nobody has found the time to revise the keymaps. I did a bit once we had rockbox working, but I agree it could do with more tweaking
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03:04:14Lloreanbarrywardell: I'll admit, I could do it myself too, but I keep finding other things that I'm working on. :)
03:04:24barrywardellme too :)
03:04:59Lloreanangusthefuzz: We don't know, but the 1.1 hardware seems to be the version with the line. Possibly a different LCD controller.
03:05:31Lloreanbarrywardell: Someone did an RMAA test at the anythingbutipod forums showing the contrast between Rockbox and the original firmware, by the way
03:05:45barrywardellangusthefuzz: here's the thread
03:05:57angusthefuzzthanks alot barrywardell
03:06:00barrywardellLlorean: oh yeah? i haven't seen that
03:06:28Lloreanbarrywardell: Indeed, it's even post "audio-fix" patch that's compared
03:06:34LloreanSo it shows that fix patch is still quite off.
03:07:18LloreanAssuming good testing habits, at least.
03:07:29***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:08:16barrywardellhmmm, seems we're still a good bit off. someone needs to spend time playing around with the settings on the AS3514 for a start
03:08:29LloreanSomeone with RMAA set up, preferably. :)
03:08:53barrywardelland spare time!
03:09:01LloreanLots of it.
03:09:09LloreanDoes RoLo work on Sansa?
03:09:23barrywardelli don't think so
03:09:33barrywardelli'm not sure why
03:09:37LloreanUnfortunate. I imagine that'd make it easier.
03:09:46 Quit BigBabyJesus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:09:57LloreanWasn't it that 'toni' person who was trying to play with those settings?
03:10:11barrywardellyeah, he posted the patches
03:11:27donutman25RoLo works on my sansa
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03:12:49barrywardellIt does? I stand corrected!
03:13:36 Part Domonoky
03:13:51donutman25it doesnt work with the *.e200 extension anymore though
03:14:09donutman25you hav to change *.e200 to *.mi4
03:14:36barrywardellah, ok. that would be an easy enough fix.
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03:33:51 Part TrueJournals
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04:04:17 Part kkurbjun
04:04:17Fortedoom is hard on ipod
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04:11:09TrueJournalsWow... IRC is quiet tonight...
04:12:16safetydanTrueJournals, is it ever active at this time? It's the 2am UTC so I can't imagine to many of the euro types are awake.
04:12:28TrueJournalsEh, I don't really know ;-\
04:12:37TrueJournalsIt's 9:10 PM here
04:13:20LloreanThis is about when it dies out most weekdays, for the next 5 or 6 hours at least
04:13:34safetydanWell it's 12:14 pm here. This channel needs more Australians :)
04:13:59Forteso what other cool stuff can i do with rockbox
04:14:02Fortebesides drag and drop
04:14:07Fortecause thats awesome
04:14:27TrueJournalswatch videos...
04:14:33TrueJournalsdictionary... jewels...
04:14:37safetydanForte, try playing some music then go to the Plugins menu and select the oscilloscope
04:14:40Fortei can watch videos with my ipod
04:14:40LloreanRockbox is mostly about audio functionality. See the manual, there's equalizers, replaygain, dithering, a whole host of formats.
04:15:29TrueJournalsIf I was going to re-rip my music collection, what would be the best format to use?
04:15:37Fortemp3 or wma
04:15:50Fortei like the quality of wma
04:15:55Fortebut mp3 is more streamline
04:15:59Lloreanwma is kinda crappy.
04:16:05TrueJournalsI was just going to say that
04:16:24TrueJournalsIn case you didn't know... rockbox doesn't support wma
04:16:34LloreanMost listening tests suggest that non-Pro WMA is the only current format that *doesn't* compete.
04:17:31LloreanAAC, MP3 (using LAME), Vorbis and MPC all compete pretty well for transparency-point
04:17:47LloreanIf you want low bitrate, Vorbis with teh AuToV tunings is often considered good.
04:18:02LloreanFor high bitrate, MPC is popular, though if you're going archival you should just use a lossless codec
04:18:16safetydanWhat about WavPack? Isn't that the one that supports hybrid files?
04:18:33safetydan(not on Rockbox, but you can keep the lossless diffs for your PC)
04:18:59LloreanBut honestly lossy wavpack isn't so great (in my personal experience at least)
04:19:14LloreanBut I haven't done a listening test with it, so it could just be placebo effect: I think it sounds bad, so it does sound bad. :0
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04:22:43 Part TrueJournals
04:25:25Fortei just noticed the real battery meter
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05:46:34saratogallorean: I just noticed those Sansa RMAA results. Given that it shows 0 dB of stereo seperation in the retail firmware, I'd say his test setup has issues
05:46:55saratogacan you ask that guy to run RMAA on his own PC?
05:47:18saratogai don't have an ABI account, and he hasn't posted here
05:47:50Lloreansaratoga: I told him to post here. If he doesn't, and does respond to my asking him to, I'll ask him to. Otherwise if he's not willing to acknowledge or be helpful, I doubt asking for further information would help.
05:48:06LloreanI have an Sansa, how hard/easy is it to do a good RMAA test? I could maybe try tomorrow too
05:48:20saratogapretty easy
05:48:24saratogayou just need a loopback cable
05:48:30saratogai grabbed one off my PC speakers
05:48:49saratogayou load the wave + calibration tone it comes with into the player
05:49:11saratogaloop the calibration tone until RMAA is happy that you've matched the levels properly
05:49:27saratogathen play the test tone, it recognizes, and then spits out the report
05:49:53LloreanAnd this RMAA 5.5 from is all I need?
05:50:10saratogawell that and a PC/loopback cable obviously
05:50:32LloreanYou mean by a loopback cable, one with stereo mini plugs at both ends?
05:50:37saratogaits also nice if you post the results from doing a loopback test on your own PC too, so we can be sure your PC is ok
05:50:44LloreanYeah, I've got a pile of those. :)
05:51:02LloreanTomorrow I'll do a full series of tests, I think
05:51:16LloreanSo that I have comparisons on each of the Rockbox-capable players, just for curiosity's sake
05:58:16LloreanShould I just run the "Wizard"?
05:58:41saratogayeah the wizard is fine
05:58:48saratogai think
05:58:54saratogapretty sure its all basically the same
05:59:07saratogaalso, if you really want to do some interesting tests
05:59:15saratogai've been looking to get more "loaded" test results
05:59:25saratogasince those are often much more intersting then unloaded
05:59:44LloreanWell for now, I'm just figuring out how to use the software, by testing my own computer
05:59:50saratogaso if you have a pair of 16 ohm headphones and a splitter, I'd love to see how the sansa handled those
06:00:00saratogathe ipods look pretty bad that way, the h120 looks pretty good
06:00:03saratogayeah sure
06:00:06Llorean16 ohm. I think the Sennheiser CX300s are that?
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06:00:54saratogaeah 16 ohm
06:00:58maskeddoes rockbox support ipod compatible head-units?
06:01:07saratogamasked: just via line out
06:01:14maskedsaratoga: bugger
06:01:59saratogallorean: heres the ones i've got so far:
06:03:21Lloreansaratoga: The summary from testing my PC against itself: Look alright?
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06:09:38maskedis there any plans to support them fully?
06:10:22saratogaLlorean: your sound card sort of sucks :)
06:10:25saratogabut it should be fine
06:10:40saratogajust the SNR figures will be limited by your sound card
06:10:49saratogawhich is fine, since no one really cares about them on a portable anyway
06:10:59saratogaeverything else is more then fine
06:11:36Lloreansaratoga: Laptop
06:11:45Lloreansaratoga: I can try it on my desktop tomorrow
06:11:54LloreanThough it's I think using an old Audigy or some such
06:12:35saratogayeah my laptop gives almost identical results
06:12:42saratogaso all of my numbers have the same SNR limit
06:12:45Lloreanmasked: Rockbox doesn't really make plans for the project as a whole, outside of things like significant UI design philosophy changes. It's unlikely to happen unless people who own such devices do it
06:12:48saratogawhich is fine since SNR is pretty useless anyway
06:13:02Lloreansaratoga: I'm tempted to try on my other laptop, since it's actually supposed to be "good"
06:14:09saratogajust if you use the audigy (or any Creative sound card), make sure you record at 48khz on the PC end (probably want to leave the test signal at 44.1k)
06:14:35LloreanWhy's that?
06:14:41saratogacreative's drivers mangle 44.1khz audio
06:14:46maskedLlorean: fair enough
06:14:51saratogaparticularly on the Audigy cards
06:16:05Lloreansaratoga: Ah, just making sure it was a creative thing. This laptop has some "High definition audio" buzzword-happy something in it
06:18:15saratogathat probably means realtek or something like that
06:18:26scorchein otherwords, "not integrated"
06:18:28LloreanI know one of the laptops is Conexant
06:18:36saratogaquality on those devices seems to be set by the analog stuff, so it doesn't tell you much
06:18:40saratogacould be good or bad
06:19:03scorcheugh...the realtek are not good at all..
06:19:10saratogadepends how cheap the board maker is
06:19:14saratogasome are pretty good
06:19:20LloreanThis laptop though is SigmaTel
06:19:37scorchei have a realtek on my asus...not good at all
06:19:44saratogaDACs are all pretty similar these days
06:19:52scorcheac'97 is the typical chip
06:19:53saratogamostly depends how good teh analog stuff you hookup to them is
06:19:56LloreanAlright, making a Sansa build with the patch now.
06:20:06saratogaand since no one uses rightmark, companies know they can skimp
06:21:38Lloreansaratoga: If I zipped together the saves from my PC, gigabeat, and Sansa, would you take a look at them? I have no clue what to look for.
06:21:54saratogai'd love to
06:22:07LloreanIt'll just be a few more minutes for me to prepare the build, etc.
06:22:41saratogathe summary rightmark gives at the top is actually pretty good
06:22:57saratogathough the SNR and noise aren't a big deal with portables, since you don't listen to them in very quiet places usually
06:23:01saratogaor with big amps
06:23:45saratogajust got to remember that with headphones, everything looks way better without the headphones
06:24:39LloreanYeah, but right now we're just testing if we've got the audio working right.
06:25:13saratogayeah sorry
06:25:15saratogai realize that
06:25:24LloreanJust sayin'
06:25:33LloreanWe'll work out how well they drive headphones after it's on a fair basis for comparison
06:25:40LloreanI've got a bunch of very varying players to test
06:26:38saratogai've been digging around headfi, HA, etc for ages looking for sansa load tests
06:29:20LloreanI'll perform load tests on all my players with the same 'phones, and recorded on the same computer. That ought to help, no?
06:29:31saratogayeah it'd be great
06:30:01LloreanThe gain definitely isn't right
06:30:19Llorean-17 on my Gigabeat was about right for RMAA testing, and 0 on my Sansa
06:31:20saratogado we expect the volume settings to be consistent across players?
06:31:30saratogai would not think that would be the case, since they have different amps
06:31:53saratoga(though i won't be surprised if the gain is wrong too)
06:31:57Lloreansaratoga: Yes, but 0dB should be fairly similar with no load, shouldn't it?
06:32:34saratogano I don't think so
06:32:39saratoga0dB just means full volume
06:32:55saratogawhatever voltage that is would be up to the hardware
06:33:00Llorean0dB should mean "Line Level"
06:33:07LloreanIt doesn't mean full volume
06:33:13LloreanMany of our amps go to +6 or +12
06:33:13saratoganot for a headphone jack i thought?
06:33:22LloreanLook at the iPod, you can go up to +6
06:34:03saratogayeah but isn't the ipod using the headphone output as a line out anyway?
06:34:20saratogathanks to all that wolfenson weirdness
06:34:28LloreanThere's a line out in the dock slot too
06:34:36LloreanWith independently settable gain that we've locked at 0
06:34:45LloreanBut 0dB should produce line level output on any of the players, that was the goal
06:34:59saratogathat makes sense
06:35:10LloreanThat's why we changed from 0-100% to an absolute scale of dB
06:36:29LloreanUgh, the Sansa doesn't play non-tagged files (WAV)
06:36:34LloreanBut you can put them in the "Recordings" folder to play them
06:36:44LloreanI wonder if he tried encoding them as MP3 or something
06:36:48LloreanSansa retail firmware, that is
06:39:32Lloreansaratoga: Okay, what's the best way for me to get this to you?
06:41:09LloreanThere's definitely some difference between the retail firmware and the Rockbox firmware, unless I screwed up along the way
06:43:04saratogaemail would be fine
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06:45:09Lloreansaratoga: Actually, I figured I'd attach it to the patch tracker task for the patch I used, since it might help him improve it.
06:45:16saratogaok thats fine
06:45:48LloreanI just realized it would be polite of me to share. :)
06:47:31saratogathat looks like rockbox does a better then retail
06:48:11LloreanAssuming Retail is playing the file properly
06:48:27LloreanIt doesn't record in 44khz audio, but the test tone sounded "okay" through my computer's speakers
06:48:38LloreanI'm afraid it may have been playing back poorly
06:49:28LloreanBut yeah, it does look like Rockbox does better
06:49:36LloreanThe gain level just seems all wrong though
06:49:39saratogaperhaps that guy had a screwed up build?
06:49:44Llorean+1 isn't nearly as loud as +1 anywhere else.
06:49:53LloreanBy 'anywhere else' I mean any other player Rockbox runs on
06:49:58LloreanAnd it doesn't get as loud as the retail firmware
06:50:07LloreanSo it seems like we've maybe got the hardware configured properly, but the levels wrong.
06:51:51saratogait looks to me like the retail firmware played back ok, but with the volume set a little low
06:51:56saratogaso i think the tests are fine
06:53:05saratogaFR is identical between them, so the sampling rate must be correct
06:53:16LloreanComparing with the Gigabeat, the graphs look very similar other than the low frequencies for Stereo Crosstalk
06:53:57saratogayeah that is interesting
06:55:20saratogai suppose theres not very many ways to make an oversampling DAC, so if you have similar filter order, you're get similar frequency responses
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06:58:17LloreanBut yeah, each dB step on the Gigabeat results in a dB step in the input level it seems.
06:58:22LloreanLemme check with the Sansa
06:58:48LloreanSansa should be 1.5 if things are working right
07:00:06LloreanOkay, ever 1dB step in Rockbox is 1.5 on the real level
07:00:16LloreanAnd it's not skipping steps like it should
07:00:31saratogaso thats it? the gui is just wrong
07:00:32LloreanIt should be 0, -2, -3, -5, -6 etc.
07:00:45LloreanWell, the GUI is wrong
07:00:53LloreanAnd the maximum is wrong, I don't know if it's because the GUI is wrong.
07:01:03Llorean0 on the Sansa is equivalent loudness to -17 on the Gigabeat, as I said
07:01:34LloreanIt could be because of the rounding error: It's not allowing us to increase the volume past +1 even though were not at the real max since it's not counting right
07:01:47LloreanOr rather, the minimum isn't the right minimum
07:02:32CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
07:02:32*Llorean wishes barrywardell were here to ask questions of. Or Toni
07:02:46LloreanWith luck though, their names in the logs might get them to see this
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08:08:56lachlanLlorean: Would it be possible to disable the use of smilies in the forums?
08:09:16LloreanIt would be, yes.
08:09:37lachlanWould it be feasable to do so
08:10:20scorchewe have it limited to 3 atm
08:10:27Llorean3 per post.
08:10:33LloreanI didn't want to disable them entirely
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08:10:39LloreanAt least, without good cause
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08:11:57lachlanThey look terrible- especially when combines with an annoying question- e.g 'will rockbox delete all my musik [sic]??[insert annoying questionmark smiley here]??[smiley again]
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08:12:49scorchewell, they can sometimes be mean the difference between an insult and a joke
08:13:29Galoispeople could still type out ascii smileys
08:13:42lachlanSimply adding ;) can as well
08:13:49lachlanyou idiot;)
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09:13:39amiconnhi petur
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09:14:44amiconnI tested wavview on archos recorder; performance is better than I thought, it's about "realtime"
09:15:00amiconn..i.e. a one-minute WAV takes about one minute to load
09:15:09amiconn(CD quality)
09:16:17amiconnI can see several possible optimisations:
09:17:08peturmorning amiconn
09:17:25amiconn(1) While calculating min/max for a single "mem peak", use autovars instead of the struct member. This gives a higher chance that they are kept in registers by gcc
09:18:10amiconnSometimes gcc fails to spot such trivial things. You could even use 'register' to tell gcc what you want.
09:18:57amiconn(2) There's a division in the main loop, executed for every sample pair (line 224). Bad on coldfire, even worse on arm and sh1
09:19:16amiconnThis could be replaced by an extra counter
09:19:57amiconn(3) I really don't see the point of the extra min/max check. Afaics this could be removed completely
09:22:15peturre (3) if the wav file is smaller than audiobuf, fppmp will be 1 so l/rmax may not be set. Could remove the check on l/rmin though
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09:22:55peturthanks for the tips btw
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09:25:01cropIs anybody here who knows the WPS code well?
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09:25:29amiconnIf you initialise min and max to the first data value instead of their opposite extrema, you never need such checks
09:25:54peturha... good point
09:25:55cropI wonder why the tags for the current song are declared as WPS_REFRESH_STATIC and the tags for the next song as WPS_REFRESH_DYNAMIC.
09:26:24amiconnpetur: I also came across the following usage quirks: (1) It's not possible to cancel the load. (2) When loading finished, it's very counter-intuitive to have to press Off or Stop to continue...
09:26:51peturamiconn: I know, must fix that
09:26:53amiconn(3) wavview doesn't handle USB afaics
09:27:22LinusNcrop: because the next song info is not always available
09:28:36cropLinusN: so it's dynamically updated once it's available?
09:29:04cropAh, ok. Multithreading...
09:29:42pondlifeHi LinusN, good holiday?
09:29:49LinusNpondlife: yes, indeed
09:29:59*GodEater is also nursing his sunburn
09:30:14pondlifeLinusN: You may have mail from me in your spam bin....
09:30:19LinusNpondlife: i forgot your player at home when i left for vacation
09:30:31cropHas anybody seen It seems reasonable to me.
09:30:35pondlifeNo problem
09:31:09pondlifeI can use the sim at work, I'll need it more when *I'm* on holiday :)
09:32:00pondlifeNot that there's any sign of that happening :(
09:32:11LinusNcrop: looks ok to me
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09:34:34cropI think with the advance of the viewports the WPS code will dramatically change
09:36:51cropSo all the recent changes in the wps code might be in vain
09:36:58LinusNwhy so?
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09:41:32cropWon't the WPS parsing and handling be very different from now? For a view port we might need something like begin-end
09:45:48LinusNwell, the current idea is to add the syntax to define viewports, and use the current wps parser within each viewport
09:47:29cropLinusN: but this will still be a single file, right?
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09:54:29LinusNpondlife: you might want to edit
09:55:12pondlifeDone :)
09:55:25LinusNi'll try to send your player today
09:55:37LinusNsorry for the delay
09:55:41pondlifeOK, mail me if you have any questions.
09:56:01pondlifeGotta get back to work now
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10:23:17DataGhostthere it is
10:23:37DataGhostseems to work, too
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10:46:51LloreanLinusN: I definitely agree it'd be more intuitive as an option. As I said, I'm not strongly against it, but I also am definitely not for it, since it doesn't add actual functionality. Though if it can be added in a really efficient way, I wouldn't really be against it either.
10:47:35LinusNi think it should be very easy to add, with a minimum amount of code
10:47:51LloreanIt seems like it ought to be.
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10:49:06LloreanI'd almost rather it be added as a playlist editing function though: Cut at this point, or something similar, that would remove all songs after a certain point. It'd perform the same duty, and allow some other new behaviours at the same time (mixing/editing together playlists into one more easily, etc)
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10:51:58spiorfDataGhost, nice dock!
10:52:26spiorfhow did you glued the cable to that plastic piece?
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12:38:07cropWhy doesn't get committed? It's reasonable and even Linus-the-guru likes it. Why keep FS polluted?
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12:39:01cropOr do Nico_P and fml2 have to agree on this first?
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13:09:14JeanhubHello everyone, I've readed the instructions, went on forums and I still get this error, Can't load rockbox.ipod:File not found
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13:09:57linuxstbDid you download the file for your ipod and extract the contents to your ipod?
13:10:15JeanhubWell I got .rockbox on my iPod
13:10:30linuxstbIs there a "rockbox.ipod" file inside there?
13:10:39JeanhubI've been looking for it
13:10:46JeanhubSadly, I can't find it!
13:10:51linuxstbIs there anything inside that .rockbox folder?
13:11:09markunJeanhub: do you have a link to this zip file you used?
13:11:17JeanhubYeah, hold on a second.
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13:11:50markunit's not the ipod one
13:11:55JdGordonmidkay: hey, you dont still have the bmps for the icons you made do you?
13:12:04markunJeanhub: look here:
13:12:05JeanhubOh, where do I get the iPod one :| I'm confused
13:12:32linuxstbJeanhub: - scroll down to the table with pictures of all the different devices, and download the one for your ipod
13:13:00JeanhubThank you guys.
13:13:04JeanhubI'll try it out Right now
13:13:37linuxstbYou should probably delete the old .rockbox folder you extracted first.
13:13:43JeanhubYes, I already did.
13:13:51JeanhubCurrently extracting the good one.
13:14:06markunJeanhub: didn't you think it was strange that your zip was for "Archos Jukebox 5000, 6000 and Studio models"? :)
13:14:07linuxstbAnd you'll also need at least the fonts from here -
13:14:19JeanhubYeah but I'm new to this so I didn't really know.
13:14:57JdGordonamiconn: you around?
13:16:00JeanhubOk but now it opens in the normal iPod view
13:16:40 Quit qwedsa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:17:23JeanhubHow do I make it open in Rockbox?
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13:20:15markunJeanhub: which installation instructions are you following?
13:20:35JeanhubOh it works
13:20:40JeanhubI just had to reboot it!
13:21:33JeanhubGuys, this is simply awesome, thanks alot.
13:22:17markunJeanhub: have fun with it
13:22:57JdGordonlinuxstb: do you know how hard it is with the current bmp drawing code to draw a rectangle in a loaded bmp instead of the whole thing?
13:23:15JeanhubI just tried to install a skin, but when I open my iPod it doesn't show up
13:23:24JeanhubI see the normal rockbox skin.
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13:23:41linuxstbJdGordon: You mean draw part of a loaded bitmap on the LCD?
13:23:53 Quit qwm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:24:08linuxstbJust use lcd_bitmap_part()
13:24:23JeanhubHow do I install properly a skin?
13:24:29Jeanhuba theme I mean.
13:24:43linuxstbYou need to select it - go to Settings in the main menu, then Browse Themes
13:25:00linuxstbIf it doesn't appear in that list, you didn't extract the files to the correct places.
13:25:09JeanhubOh I see.
13:25:21JdGordonlinuxstb: ok cool, ta
13:26:52Jeanhubthis is awesome my ipod looks cool now
13:29:51markunJeanhub: but you may find that rockbox doesn't really focus on the looks and you can do a lot of other nice things with it
13:31:12simmelI have found an issue which might be small, but very annoying. I use the Filebrowser to listen to albums and use "Auto-Change Directory". But when I have moved from one folder/album to another and I want to select another album, I start at the root of my "Files" not in the folder of the current
13:31:17simmelsong I'm playing. Is there a setting that I have missed or is this a feature request?
13:32:02linuxstb"Follow playlist"
13:32:28markunbut it's strange that you end up in the root every time, that sounds like a bug to me
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13:34:14simmellinuxstb Where is this setting?
13:34:31linuxstbI can't remember
13:34:41simmellinuxstb Found it.
13:35:00amiconnJdGordon: Sorta.
13:35:00simmelGeneral Settings=>File View
13:35:17JdGordonamiconn: enough to talk about the icons?
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13:35:33simmellinuxstb Thanks alot.
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13:36:21amiconnJdGordon: Btw, there is a bug wrt root menu and hwcodec: If you set rockbox to start in the browser, then play some music (resumed or started anew), and the music ends, I would think rockbox should put you back into the browser
13:36:38simmelmarkun Well, IMO it should be default. I don't like confusing settings which should be enabled by default, but hey, I'm an Mac-geek ; )
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13:36:47amiconnThis works on both hwcodec and swcodec if you stop playback manually, and it also works on swcodec when the playlist ends
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13:37:13JdGordonamiconn: if will only do that if you have follow playlist enabled. otherwise it will goto previous
13:37:16amiconnBut on hwcodec, when the playlist ends, you're always dropped back to the root menu, regardless where you set your start screen
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13:38:27markunsimmel: does some Mac software change the folder of the file browser when you are playing songs?
13:38:35*amiconn has 'follow playlist' permanently enabled on all his targets
13:38:43*linuxstb too
13:38:44JdGordonnothing to do with the start screen setting, it either will drop you in previous browser, or previous
13:39:02*markun never tried it
13:39:15pixelmaI believe it once was working when I tested on Ondio
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13:40:26JdGordonactually.. it is possible there is a bug there.. iirc there is a return GO_TO_ROOT; line which should neer be reachable, maybe on hwcodec it is?
13:41:01pixelmaJdGordon: that doesn't work atm when you enter wps from file browser (strangely on my Ondio but not on my M5)
13:42:31pixelmathe return to file browser at the end of the playlist doesn't work on Ondio (where it returns to the main menu instead)
13:43:19JdGordonanyway, amiconn, I want to pull the hardcoded icons out and use the rb2bmp like the other bmps, but with so many it would be slow and annoying. can we put all icons of the same size side-by-side in one bmp and draw them with lcd_bitmap_part()?
13:43:37JdGordonpixelma: with follow playlist one?
13:44:13LinusNJdGordon: choose a format that is suitable for theming
13:44:51pixelmaJdGordon: yes, I've set it to "on".
13:45:22JdGordonpixelma: might very well be a hwcodec bug then... *looks around for someone with som time and a hwcodec target to figgure it out*
13:45:27linuxstbI assume we should we move to native format bitmaps (i.e. colour) instead of the 1-bit mono for the icons?
13:45:43JdGordonyeah, kill off the mono icons
13:46:01linuxstbBut isn't there also the issue of icon size? i.e. we don't want big icons and little fonts, and vice-versa...
13:46:10JdGordonLinusN: well, we dont want 1 bmp for the wps' so is it the same for theming icons?
13:46:14JdGordonremembering there are heaps of them
13:47:08JdGordonwe need icons for the statusbar (4x8 iirc), some 5x8's (not sure where these are used) and 6x8 in the lists
13:47:18pixelmaI'd have the time to test possible fixes...
13:47:35JdGordonthere isnt any reason why we couldnt load any size icons to match a font size and display them.. except the statusbar
13:47:37linuxstbShouldn't the statusbar also be larger on the larger LCDs?
13:47:51JdGordonalso the default font
13:47:51LinusNi don't really have an opinion, except that if you do change the icon code, you should keep themes in mind
13:48:07pondlifeWasn't there a proposal to make all of this themeable?
13:48:23pondlifeMaybe the icons etc. could be removed from the core code completely?
13:48:33linuxstbProbably... People are always proposing things.
13:48:59pondlifeJdGordon: That reminds me, did you have any further thought on the buffering?
13:49:13*pondlife proposes and runs (again)
13:49:20JdGordonI tried a ring buffer with a gap, but got nowhere with it...
13:49:22JdGordonso no :p
13:49:44pondlifeThe gap is probably the problem...
13:49:46*bluebrother comes back and notices nobody threw a manual at Jeanhub :o
13:49:56JdGordonhow much do archos recorders usually go for on ebay nowdays?
13:50:16bluebrothertoo much here in germany :(
13:50:26pondlifeJdGordon: Mine went for 40
13:50:32bluebrotherwatched one a while ago and it reached over 50EUR
13:50:49pondlife...but I was a bit disappointed it wasn't more.
13:51:28pondlifeMaybe I'm greedy, but the Recorder is a lovely device
13:52:58JdGordonpondlife: I wanted to use the gap for the current tracks metadata, so ti would keep moving around as the tracks were played
13:53:05JdGordonbut it got too complicated :p
13:54:36*JdGordon thinks wps'ifying the statusbar before getting loadable icons working would make tihngs easier
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13:55:57pondlifeJdGordon: Keep buffering the same as now, but in a more sturdy box! All I was aiming for was a neater and documented interface.
13:58:14JdGordondoes buffering have any interface now at all?
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13:58:34pondlifeThere is a blurry line between playback and buffering
13:58:45pondlifeAnd buffering could be used by video playback etc.
13:59:03pondlifeI was thinking of a super-SMARTDRV... ;)
13:59:54pondlifeOr an "audio buffer manager".
14:00:32pondlifei.e. NOT MoB... that's a bigger scope.
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14:03:50LinusNi would like the buffering to be independent of the playback
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14:04:49LinusNbut there have been so many special cases of (re)winding and crossfade etc, so the buffering has been quite messy
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14:10:00pondlifeThe buffering is quite hacky still.
14:10:09LinusNvery hacky
14:10:14JdGordon_very very hacky
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14:10:48pondlifeMy recent fix, predictably, broke something else.
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14:17:29Anlar--Hi, I installed just rockbox because I thought it would make syncing music easier.. Does anyone know why WMP doesn't see the player at all? It should support general disk device sort of players nowadays
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14:19:50LinusNAnlar−−: i have no idea why. do you see the player in the file explorer?
14:20:26Anlar--yeah, and that part works just fine
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14:20:54Anlar--I tried this on two computers, but they both have had iTunes previously installed.. I hope it isn't screwing something up
14:21:21LinusNwell, i have no idea, since i have never used itunes or wmp...
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14:22:07Anlar--iTunes installs a helper service and all sorts of crap, I tried removing it all as well as I could but..
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14:23:53LinusNi don't know anything about wmp, but with rockbox, the player is just a USB disk to windows, so i don't know how wmp is supposed to recognize it as a player
14:24:46Anlar--It should afaik recognize all usb sticks and such as "players" and just copy the files over
14:25:08LinusNi don't even know why you feel the need to use wmp for this at all
14:26:38Anlar--it's actually the best player I have seen so far, and I've seen quite a few. they have developed it a great deal since the previous versions
14:26:47linuxstbAnlar−−: What device do you have, and did it work before you installed Rockbox?
14:27:31Anlar--Nano 1st gen, and it worked flawlessly. It still does if I copy manually the files over
14:28:17linuxstbI mean did WMP recognise it before you installed Rockbox? On the ipods, Rockbox simply reboots into the original Apple firmware when you attach to USB, so shouldn't change the behaviour at all.
14:28:47Anlar--why does it do that?
14:29:15linuxstbBecause no-one has implemented a USB mode in Rockbox - it's a non-trivial task.
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14:30:01Anlar--okay. that might perhaps have something to do with it.. I'll poke around that a bit
14:30:47Anlar--wmp usually does not see ipod, it's on some sort of blacklist.. you need special 3rd party plugin for that but that is what I was trying to avoid in the first place
14:31:57linuxstbRockbox won't help you with that.
14:33:48Anlar--it would if I could just find why/how it is being blacklisted as "normal" mp3 player.. I can find some global identifiers for it in the registry so I'll check a few things :/ but this is beginning to sound like a disappointment
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14:36:35jhMikeSlinuxstb: Hey, mpegplayer syncs like it should now. I think it's svn ready. Seeking should be the next addition.
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14:38:37amiconnAnlar−−: I guess that wmp just has a blacklist checking usb device ids
14:38:40Nico_PLinusN: so you think is OK to commit ?
14:39:01amiconnIf you can find this list somewhere, you "just" need to remove the ipod usb id(s) from it
14:39:10LinusNNico_P: absolutely
14:39:56Nico_Pok, so I'll check the patch is OK and commit. I like ot too but I just had concerns about compatibility
14:40:32bluebrotherNico_P: that tags aren't documented in the manual yet ;-)
14:40:54Nico_Pbluebrother: I know, and there's a patch to add them BTW
14:40:58bluebrotherbut I'll add them later today (as I now know the correct values ;-)
14:41:15bluebrotheryes, but I will need to adjust that patch ...
14:41:15LinusNfunny, they are present in the wiki WPS spec...
14:41:56linuxstbjhMikeS: Nice. So I can leave mpegplayer to you to finish? :)
14:42:05LinusNah, now i see
14:42:33LinusNi think the compatibility is a rather small issue
14:43:07Nico_Pbluebrother, LinusN: aww, I was confusing with what do you both think about 7001 ?
14:43:34jhMikeSlinuxstb: hehe...what's "finished"? I have ideas and I doubt I can resist working on it further. :p I'd like to split it into separate files to start with. It's kind of a big lump.
14:43:40Nico_Perr, the second one was supposed to be
14:43:43LinusNNico_P: i'm for it
14:44:24*bluebrother votes for the change
14:45:06bluebrotherbut I think FS #6998 could simply go along with that
14:45:16Nico_POK, so 'ill commit both at the same time
14:45:32Nico_Pbluebrother: yeah, it'll be just one commit
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14:47:13linuxstbjhMikeS: I think "stage 1" would be to finish cleaning it up (which is what you've done I think), and implement seeking. "stage 2" would be adding nice extra features such as bookmarking, resume and playlists. "stage 2" might be best achieved by adding supports for video codecs into the Rockbox playback engine.
14:48:13linuxstbPlus of course there's optimisation to do...
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14:50:19jhMikeSOptimizing for the slower players would help a great deal. On "stage 1" some was done but splitting it into logical parts would help that even more. "stage 2" ... I'll have it done by tomorrow ;)
14:51:33pondlifeAt this rate, perhaps we could use the mpegplayer engine for audio playback... ;)
14:52:44bluebrother... and add support for ogg streams with video? ;-)
14:52:55jhMikeSIf we need fine grained clock in the core, sure. :)
14:53:59pondlifeHah, now we have 3 playback engines to unify...! (joke)
14:55:05 Join AceNik [0] (n=AceNik@'ll use the core dsp but the sync requirements mean it won't use the core pcm buffer since clocking is so tight with that.
14:55:41AceNikhey can anyone reconfirm if the "plugin on backlight " option is present in the current builds
14:56:17Nico_Phmm I don't really like the get_time() call at each wps refresh
14:58:07AceNik& do the ipods already have a volume limiter ? if yes, can we commit the same thing in other models
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15:07:50***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:13:17AceNikgusy how do we take screenshots on the sim do i press F5 ?
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15:43:46markunjhMikeS: with your patch playback has been perfect for me so far, did you change a lot since then?
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15:48:46JdGordondoes anyone know how to make a bmp from the hardcoded icons in the source?
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15:54:25markunJdGordon: with a calculator you could convert the numbers to binary and then draw them by hand
15:54:47pixelmawouldn't it be easier to take a screenshot?
15:54:47jhMikeSmarkun: not so much...I mostly cleaned it up and got rid of the mpeg buffer delay
15:55:09JdGordonpixelma: might be :'(
15:55:18markunjhMikeS: what about skipping the decoding of some skipped frames?
15:55:20JdGordonwould be nice if bmp2rb could do it
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15:55:56jhMikeSmarkun: far better behavior on that. the patch wasn't actually dropping in the decoder. I'm gonna commit it in a few minutes so give it test then.
15:56:11amiconnJdGordon: Just display all icons side by side in a plugin, and the take a screenshot
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15:56:43saratogamatlab and the image() or imwrite() command would be my first choice, assuming you have an array of pixel values
15:56:59JdGordonamiconn: does the charcell have a load_bmp function?
15:57:00markunjhMikeS: today I had to quit after 1 hour into a 1.5 hour video so seeking would be very welcome :)
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15:57:58jhMikeShehe...the implementation was changed with an eye to that. it's all relative and self-synchronizing.
15:58:02JdGordonamiconn: actually... ignore that
15:59:28amiconnJdGordon: No it doesn't
15:59:49amiconnBtw, yesterday I had an idea how to improve headline support in lists
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16:00:02jhMikeSthere still may be glitches in the first second of video or so when audio starts slightly after video which makes video think it's late but it's only a couple videos I have that do that. no biggie and I don't want to hack in a fix for that minor problem that seeking will be a better solution to.
16:01:33amiconnWhat if headlines would auto-disable themselves if otherwise only one line would fit below them?
16:01:49amiconn(that is, when using a large font and/or a small display)
16:01:58jhMikeSI think it needs an OSD implementation too before putting controls on it which would be little more than cutting a bit of video out at the edge to maybe display the status bar for volume adjustment and a progress bar for seeking.
16:02:08JdGordonamiconn: im not sure how you want to support customizable icons on the charcell, so for the moment im going to ignore it, but keep the interface simple so it would be easy to get it working on charcell
16:02:32JdGordonamiconn: tht wont add lots of unused code onto charcell?
16:02:48JdGordonthinking forward to viewports its proabbly a good idea
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16:03:08amiconnI don't think we want customisable icons for charcell, perhaps except or supported formats in viewers.config
16:03:13amiconn*except for
16:03:38markunjhMikeS: yes, OSD is a good idea
16:03:39amiconnBut I think we could have those little menu icons (built in, like it is now for bitmap targets)
16:04:30markunjhMikeS: but maybe we have to think about better rotation support in rockbox for the Gigabeat and Sansa before it works well on those players
16:04:44JdGordon#define SHOW_LIST_TITLE ((gui_list->title != NULL) && (gui_list->display->nb_lines > 1))
16:04:56JdGordontitle is already hidden if there isnt enough room
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16:05:39bluebrotherJdGordon: can't you just write a small c programm that takes the icons and dumps them to a bmp? Afaik it has (mostly) only a header added.
16:06:15JdGordoni think amiconn's idea about displaying them in a plugin will work best with the least amount of effort
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16:07:45jhMikeSmaybe...I haven't gotten a chance to see how much trouble it is to have the decoder rotate things. The OSD I guess can come after seeking and it shouldn't be much trouble to add to vo
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16:19:09jhMikeSk, it's up :) hope I didn't mess things up too much :P
16:19:51JdGordonNico_P: hey, do you know where the bmp loading code for the wps might be found?>
16:20:26Nico_PJdGordon: wps_parser.c
16:20:34*amiconn spots nice green deltas for rtc targets :)
16:20:57Nico_Pamiconn: nice, eh ? :)
16:22:14JdGordonamiconn: length X width X depth is a good enough approximation for the buffer size for loadable icons?
16:23:24*bluebrother has some work pending that appears to create green size deltas too
16:24:27bluebrotherany objections against using gui_synclist for displaying the runtime values?
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16:24:55amiconnJdGordon: Hmm, depends on the number of loadable icons
16:25:02 Quit Genre9mp3 ("I don't suffer from Rockbox psychosis. I enjoy every minute of it.")
16:25:15amiconnBut I think that in order to support loadable icons, the statusbar code needs to be reworked
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16:25:41amiconn...and I cannot imagine how loadable icons should work for the battery and volume display...
16:25:47JdGordonI tihnk only the 6x8 icons need to be themeable, the rest are all statusbar...
16:25:57amiconnAh, those
16:26:23amiconnI wonder whether themability should depend on lcd depth, i.e. allow themable icons for LCD_DEPTH >=2 only
16:26:29Nico_PJdGordon: could they be colour bitmaps ?
16:26:35JdGordonNico_P: of course :D
16:26:55amiconnDepends on how much code it will add, imho
16:26:57Nico_Pand bigger than 6x8 ?
16:27:03JdGordonthats the plan
16:27:14Nico_Pwoohoo !
16:27:20JdGordonit shouldnt add much
16:27:25bluebrotheralso tinyer? ;-)
16:27:27lowlightJdGordon: why not make icons could be unicode characters? then they'd be sized correctly.
16:27:28amiconnJdGordon: An icon strip in a single bitmap would be preferable, I think
16:27:56JdGordonthe buffer will be in the audio buffer, so if you dont want them there is no penalty
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16:28:05JdGordonand yes, the strip is definatly the way to go
16:28:08amiconnlowlight: Then they wouldn't be colour, and they couldn't be chosen independent of the font
16:28:37JdGordon6x8, 7x8, 8x8, 9x9, 10x10, 12x12, 12x16... ?
16:28:52JdGordonallowable icon sizes
16:29:02amiconnAny size, I think
16:29:20amiconn(as long as it isn't too big for the screen)
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16:29:39unique311anyone in here the owner of anokia n800?
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16:30:21perl|workwhat icons are we talking about?
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16:30:31JdGordonthe icons used in the lists
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16:30:53webguest73Nico_P: hey Nico_P. I have a question about the last rtc commit. Why is the time struct filled for every tag? It would suffice to fill it (and make checks) only once per update, i.e. somewhere before all screens are refreshed. There must be a loop for that. It's probably not a performance issue but RB strives for the limit in that.
16:31:14bluebrotherwill there be a icon set built-in or will it require an external file in all cases?
16:32:04amiconnJdGordon: Do you have a solution for the dynamically supported formats?
16:32:19amiconn(i.e. those where the icons is stored in viewers.config)
16:32:50JdGordonamiconn: umm... no forgot about them actually.
16:33:03JdGordonbluebrother: yes, the current icons will be compiled in
16:33:33*jhMikeS sees Access Denied when trying to delete an attachment from his own wiki page :\
16:33:34Nico_Pwebguest73: I assumed it would be better to only update the time when necessary, but now that I think about it, you might be right
16:33:37lowlightamiconn: those are the drawbacks, but it seems a simplier approach to let the existing font code handle things
16:33:55JdGordonamiconn: seperate bmps for each loadable filetype? /.rockbox/icons/<extension>.bmp ?
16:34:52webguest73Nico_P: on the other hand, now the variable tm can be declared as local (and not static). Which is good for code quality.
16:34:58JdGordonand for charcell, put the icon into viewers.config as now
16:35:06Nico_Pwebguest73: that's what mde me change the original patch
16:35:07linuxstbjhMikeS: I get that problem on the wiki - the best you can do is to hide it - it's one of the "manage" options.
16:35:35Nico_Pwebguest73: but now the time is updated very often
16:35:37linuxstbjhMikeS: If you really need it deleted, I think you need to ask Bagder/LinusN/Zagor
16:35:48webguest73Nico_P: how did the original handle it?
16:35:57amiconnJdGordon: Yes, for charcell it could be similar to now. Just that I would want to use the 'native' format for charcell patterns. Would need 7 bytes instead of 5, but no extra code for rotating
16:36:05jhMikeSI know but why don't we have access to delete our attachments? makes no sense to me and it's a nice place to share files. I don't want it cluttered.
16:36:14Nico_Pwebguest73: like you suggested, with a global variable which was updated each time the WPS was refreshed
16:36:35Nico_Pwebguest73: that is, the original version of the patch I committed
16:36:46amiconnThe icon part could then be taken out of viewers.config for bitmap targets, replacing the icon with the generic ICON_UNKNOWN (built in) when extension.bmp isn't found
16:37:08linuxstbjhMikeS: I don't know, but perhaps it's a feature of twiki to maintain the history of pages. In a similar way to not being able to delete files from CVS unless you hack the repository
16:37:09webguest73Nico_P: not that often, only for rtc tags, so not an issue
16:37:26amiconnIcon loading times need testing though. I don't want slow boot...
16:37:32*jhMikeS thinks it a bit absurd to have commit access and not full access to the wiki functions
16:37:40webguest73Nico_P: and I now see that get_time checks internally whether the data is still valid
16:37:42Nico_Pwebguest73: well if we have n RTC tags, it will be updated n times per screen update
16:38:00linuxstbjhMikeS: Maybe it requires ssh access to the server...
16:38:26linuxstbjhMikeS: But I'll stop speculating now and let you talk to someone who knows.
16:38:37webguest73Nico_P: and why do we need the checks (day < 1 etc)?
16:38:40jhMikeSwell, it's got a link for it so why would it?
16:38:48JdGordonamiconn: yeah, boot times may suffer a bit.. we will have to do some caching
16:39:36JdGordonmaybe we have viewers_icons.bmp for the supplied viewers.config?
16:39:52Nico_Pwebguest73: that's to avoid displaying invalid values. Some are very important because the value is used to access an array
16:40:02JdGordonstill need some way to allow these to be customized
16:40:04Nico_Pmaybe I could get rid of the others though
16:40:36Nico_Pwebguest73: the checks were in the pre-tokenizer code
16:41:09webguest73Can get_time return such invalid values? If yes I'd rather repair get_time
16:41:55amiconnJdGordon: viewers.config is tailored for the target by It would have to create a tailred viewers.bmp then
16:42:02amiconn(doable, but not trivial)
16:42:32JdGordonseperate icon for each sounds like the easiest way to go
16:42:37Nico_Pwebguest73: get_time doesn't check the values it reads from the RTC chip
16:42:37JdGordonnot the nicest though :(
16:42:41amiconnAnd if someone adds a custom viewer in the middle of viewers.config. it would mess up the order in viewers.bmp
16:42:53amiconnWhat we could do would be the following:
16:43:28amiconnHave a single viewers.bmp, and give each supportable file extension a "rockbox-registered" number
16:44:03amiconnThen viewers.config would reference this number for bitmap targets
16:44:47amiconnNot very flexible for custom filetypes though.
16:45:01webguest73Nico_P: BTW: you can also use valid_time for the checks
16:45:46webguest73Is it possible to have an alias for an enum symbol?
16:45:53Nico_Pwebguest73: thanks !
16:46:11Nico_Pwebguest73: you mean an alias for RTC tokens ?
16:46:25amiconnwebguest73: Just #define one
16:46:55amiconnThat's what I did in lcd-charset-player.c for identical-looking soft glyphs
16:47:59 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
16:48:33roolkuwebguest73 Nico_P: why not have a global timevar that will expire after n display cycles (where n is chosen such that it represents a time < 1s); when c timetag needs the time it will use this var directly unless it it expired in which case it will do a get_time() (including valid_time()) to get the correct time which can then be used by the other time tags until it expires
16:49:22roolkuthat should keep calls to get_time() to a minimum
16:50:16Nico_Proolku: that's not a bad idea... the parser could give the expiration time the right value according to the tags it finds
16:50:30Nico_Pno need to update every second if there are only data tags
16:50:31peturstore the tickcount and only refresh every second
16:50:44JdGordonamiconn: if we cache the viewers bmp between boots, then unless the file is changed boot time shouldnt be effected all that much
16:50:52JdGordonif we use 1 bmp for each extension
16:50:57Nico_Ppetur: that's what I was thinking, but it may even not be worth updating every second
16:51:13JdGordoni'm not really sure how best to allow the user to customise them though
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16:51:33peturNico_P: not if the wps doesn't show the seconds
16:51:44roolkuNico_P: yes, only what "smallest" time tag requires
16:51:49Nico_Ppetur: yes, and the parser can tell us that
16:51:52JdGordonhrrrrmmmmmmmm == deep in thought? or sick of the convo?
16:51:58peturNico_P: indeed
16:52:10amiconn= I don't like this bmp caching idea that much
16:52:54JdGordonwhy not?
16:53:04JdGordonif the data doesnt change there is no problems
16:53:16JdGordonread one file insttead of 16
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16:54:50amiconnAnd how do you check whether the data changes? You still need to touch the 16 files (at least by reading their properties from the dir entries)
16:55:55Nico_Ppetur, roolku, webguest73: not sure it's worth the added code. as webguest73 said, get_time already checks whether it's worth updating the time. We would spare some calls, but are they really that expensive ?
16:56:03JdGordonI was talking about the default icons, not the customised ones
16:56:14XavierGrLinus: If you have an open H300 I would like to ask you: On this picture: does the USB OTG jack is short circuited with the little capacitor just left from it?
16:56:59XavierGrLinus: if you see the logs please tell me because while I was trying to fix once again USB OTG I managed to short circuit those and now whenever I connect someting from USB OTG my H300 resets
16:57:00roolkuNico_P: calls = individual range checks? I would omit them and only check once (in or after get_time)
16:58:04Nico_Proolku: I meant calls to get_time. I'm starting to think I could simply get rid of the range checks
16:58:27Nico_Proolku: or at least replace them with a single valid_time() call
16:58:42roolkuNico_P: get_time is really expensive as it usually involves I2C bus reads
16:59:07JdGordonamiconn: as for the customised icons, i'm thinking about using a strip bmp and a text file which says which icon is which extention
16:59:15roolkuNico_P: that is why I would only call it if really neccessary
16:59:20Nico_Proolku: it will actually do that only if it needs to, I.e. if more than on second has past
16:59:53JdGordon... which could be done with the inbuilt icons also, but it either wastes space for plugins not in a build, or makes the build script more complicated
17:00:22roolkuNico_P: so maybe I misunderstood not sure what you mean now
17:02:47Nico_Proolku: what I'm saying is I'm not sure it's worth adding lots of checks, because get_time already makes sure it doesn't read the time from the chip more than once a second. Also I've checked the pre-tokenizer code and if I understand it correctly it did call get_time each time it found the RTC tag
17:03:44Nico_Pso now with the split RTC tag we call it a bit more often, but then again it won't do anything unnecessary
17:03:46JdGordonanywho, bed time, if you think of a good solution, let me know
17:03:49roolkuNico_P: I would have one global var that is trusted to contain a valid time or (say) -1
17:03:54 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
17:04:21roolkuNico_P: time_tags would just trust it to be correct (check for -1 in case RTC is broken though)
17:05:19webguest73Nico_P: I'm for the current solution. Just replace the checks with valid_time.
17:05:27roolkuNico_P: this global var is updated according to the smallest required time period (info from parser)
17:05:47Nico_Pwebguest73: that's done... But I'm wondering wether it's even really needed
17:06:21roolkuwebguest73: I wouldn't be surprised if the call overhead is bigger (memory wise) than two simple comparisons
17:06:23Nico_Proolku: that's the added code I'm sceptical about
17:06:51roolkuwebguest73: it certainly is an overhead performance wise
17:07:17webguest73But I have another concern: you check token->type >= ... && <= .... What if we'll introduce another rtc tag? The code will break. That's why I'd rather have two marker values in the enum: RTC_FIRST and RTC_LAST (or similar)
17:07:34roolkuI would only check when the time is actually obtained. if it is corrupted later, than it is a bug
17:07:53***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:07:57 Part Anlar--
17:08:14webguest73Nico_P: but as you said: get_time can return invalid values, so the check is needed I'd say
17:09:01roolkuwebguest73: but only once per get_time() call, not for every tag
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17:10:16webguest73roolku: how many WPSs use those tags? And the status bar is drawn with different code. So I'd argue that the overhead is negligible
17:10:36roolkuroolku: thinking about the update time - I think we should stick with one second. Image you want to only display date and you read the date at 1min to midnight - it is then wrong for most of the next day
17:10:48webguest73roolku: but since we call get_time for every tag... :-)
17:10:49Nico_Proolku: I tend to agree with webguest73. The pre-tokenizer code did much the same thing
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17:11:17roolkuwebguest73: like I said, calling get_time for every tag is very bad
17:11:56roolkuNico_P: are you sure? we didn't have atomised time tags then?
17:12:00Nico_Proolku: in most of these calls it won't even do enything
17:12:00webguest73Nico_P: not quite that. It only called get_time once for the whole RTC format string
17:12:37roolkuAnd why should the code be improved?
17:12:42*roolku is puzzled
17:12:57Nico_Pwebguest73, roolku: I know, that's why I said "much the same"...
17:13:19Nico_Proolku: what do you mean ?
17:13:25roolkuNico_P: what do you mean by: "in most of these calls it won't even do enything"
17:13:32webguest73Nico_P: what about FIRST/LAST?
17:13:53roolkuNico_P: you say it was like this in pre-tokeniser. that doesn't mean it is the best solution
17:14:01Nico_Proolku: get_time checks the elapsed time since the last call
17:14:25perl|workare there any known problems with aac playback?
17:14:25Nico_Proolku: I agree but I'm concerned about the added code it would require to do much better
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17:14:37markunperl|work: besides it being slow?
17:14:59Nico_Pwebguest73: yes, FIRST/LAST could be useful
17:15:19markunperl|work: are you asking in general or did you find some problems?
17:15:19perl|workit badly crashed the player just know, markun
17:15:53roolkuNico_P: okay, so we are back to updating once a second. good (must have missed that)
17:15:58webguest73Nico_P: I think they should be introduced. With a comment. They won't be used in wps_tokens, just as start/end markers.
17:16:14perl|work2 30min or so acc, transition from one to another brought it to halt with the screen still on and no reaction from any buttons
17:16:23Nico_Proolku: yes, get_time only does real work once a second. We still have a lot of calls though
17:16:39webguest73roolku: updating time once a second, but making checks for every tag, which is OK IMHO
17:16:40Nico_Pwebguest73: I add WPS_TOKENS_RTC_BEGIN and WPS_TOKENS_RTC_END
17:16:45markunperl|work: can you reproduce it?
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17:17:06webguest73Nico_P: yes, that's what I meant
17:17:23Thatchhey guys
17:17:29perl|workmarkun i guess i have to listen to the whole thing again
17:17:33webguest73Nico_P: but with a comment! :-) (I like commented code)
17:17:35perl|workcause it doesnt do it on skip
17:18:43roolkuwebguest73 Nico_P: I guess so... makes the code more readable anyway
17:18:53webguest73Nico_P: as for the overhead... I think snprintf (which is used in every rtc tag) is much slower
17:19:14webguest73So get_time and time_valid isn't an issue
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17:22:02roolkuwebguest73: so what we really want is to cache the tag value in for each tag and only update every second (or even longer periods of time)
17:22:22roolku*tag value in buf
17:22:47markunperl|work: what if you seek to the end of file 1?
17:23:07roolkuhow many screen updates are there per second?
17:23:26*roolku thinks this might be overkill
17:24:23Nico_Proolku: there are quite a lot but there are things that need to be updated often like the peakmeter or the progressbar
17:24:39webguest73roolku: IMHO it would be too much code for small benefit. Doesn't worth the effort. Clear and readable code is a very good thing
17:25:00Nico_Proolku: and there are animations too, or simply sublines
17:25:54webguest73So with START/STOP added, I'll ike the code :-)
17:26:00roolkuNico_P: yes, and for every update the time is called and checked and formatted, if the string could be stored. But I agree this is too much effort for little gain
17:27:03webguest73roolku: if that matters we could buffer the whole WPS bitmap and only update it when needed :-)))
17:27:21Nico_Proolku: ah, I thought you were talking about all the tokens, no just the RTC ones. I do agree it would be good to find an elegant way of making the code more efficient, but it doesn't seem simple
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17:31:24*Nico_P expects another green delta :)
17:32:46webguest73Nico_P: is get_time a function from the standard C library?
17:33:18perl|workmarkun let me try
17:33:26Nico_Pwebguest73: no, and I think rockbox doesn't use the standard C lib
17:34:42webguest73Nico_P: why is it then defined in such a weird way (returns a pointer to a static struct)? I'd rather expect it to have a parameter of type time*
17:35:19webguest73To make calls more efficient? But this should be handled by the app code, not by this func IMO
17:35:25perl|workmarkun no problems with skipping
17:35:40perl|workand seeking
17:36:29Nico_Pwebguest73: I don't know why it was designed that way but I don't see anything wrong with its desing
17:36:43webguest73Any gurus like to comment on the way get_time works?
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17:37:20markunperl|work: until you can find a way to reproduce it I don't think it will be easy to find the bug
17:37:24jhMikeSperl|work: did the flac glitches go away at any point? I'm guessing I found the reason for it.
17:38:27perl|workjhMikeS they did, havent encountered any problems with it for awhile
17:38:59jhMikeSok, good. it was probably just a bug in the sample output routines I fixed up.
17:39:13webguest73Nico_P: it allows the app code not to worry about the fact that a real update isn't needed. So ok.
17:39:28 Quit webguest73 ("bye. Nice work Nico_P!")
17:42:42perl|workwhats the best way to "clean up" the code from all the patches? svn revert is enough?
17:45:22 Quit petur ("*poof*")
17:46:38jhMikeSperl|work: yes, I think svn revert -R, help should say
17:46:40roolkuperl|work: you need to delete all files that patches have created
17:46:53GodEaterperl|work: "svn revert -R ." to be specific
17:47:00roolkusvn revert will only deal with files that are in svn
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17:47:29GodEaterroolku: but having done an svn revert nothing will reference those files anymore ?
17:47:38GodEaterso just having them there won't mater
17:47:41jhMikeSunless you used "svn add" on them, they won't matter...but hey
17:48:22perl|workso svn revert -R apps/firmware might not be enough in some cases?
17:48:25roolkuGodEater: it does matter if you re-apply the patch and the patch adds to the existing file instead of creating one from scratch
17:48:45GodEaterpatch is dumb enough to do that ?
17:49:01jhMikeSsvn status should tell you what's hanging around prefixed with "?"
17:49:15roolkuGodEater: what else could it do? complain that there is a file already there and fail?
17:49:33GodEaterroolku: yes
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17:50:19roolkuGodEater: in which case you would still need to delete it which is what I suggested in the first place :p
17:50:37perl|workroolku we just exchanged messages about that on mod support patch page heh
17:50:40roolkuGodEater: but I agree, it would be good if patch would report this
17:51:03GodEaterroolku: I think silently changing an already exisiting file is much worse
17:51:35perl|workit doesnt compile after svn revert -R apps/firmware was made and the patch applied anew
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17:53:27roolkuGodEater: I have seen warnings along the line "file is not empty as expected" when undoing such accumulative patching, so maybe it is a bug?
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17:54:43roolkuperl|work: why did you only revert firmware?
17:55:47roolkuperl|work: oh apps and firmware - sorry
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17:57:13roolkuanother problem with svn revert are the timestamps of the file, so you might want to do a make clean to ensure all dependecies are honoured
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17:58:31linuxstbI think that depends on how you've configured svn - IIRC, the default behaviour is to give the files the checkout time, not the times from the repository.
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17:59:59roolkulinuxstb: but they would both be in the past with regards to the object files? (revert uses local copies of files)
18:00:30jhMikeSwhy isn't the mpeg extension registered to the video player too? :\
18:02:17linuxstbNothing uses it, apart from files corrupted by IE...
18:03:01jhMikeSany problem with just having it? I don't think I want to rename stuff just to have it play.
18:03:55linuxstbNo, I don't care.
18:05:04linuxstbOut of curiosity, are you choosing to name files .mpeg yourself, or is it the default in some application you're using?
18:05:47SuddenDeath....... i tried to install rockbox and when changing the bootpartition.bin I think i did it wrong and my ipod now wont turn on... any ideas?
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18:05:59jhMikeSI get 'em here and there with that
18:06:05linuxstbroolku: I would have thought svn would still use the "revert time" for the timestamps, but I've never tested... I've enabled the "use-commit-times" option.
18:06:13jhMikeSI forgot I had a bunch of music videos :p
18:06:28*roolku goes and tests
18:06:32linuxstbSuddenDeath: Why are you changing the bootpartition.bin? What install instructions are you using?
18:06:45 Quit aramil (Client Quit)
18:09:13perl|workroolku i guess i just delete all the files the patch affects and do an update
18:09:33 Quit tvelocity (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
18:10:17roolkuperl|work: that is one option, yes
18:10:55SuddenDeathlinuxstb... i dont know if i changed it.. it was step 2.4 on here:
18:11:20SuddenDeathi think this messed it up: "ipod_fw.exe -o apple_os.bin -e 0 bootpartition.bin"
18:12:07roolkulinuxstb: it reverted the time back to the past and I have "set filedates to last commit time" off
18:12:42roolkulinuxstb: I am curious as to what that time actually is though...
18:14:21linuxstbSuddenDeath: You should have simply used the install instructions in the Rockbox manual - the information at ipodwizard is extremely old. See the "manual" link on the Rockbox website.
18:14:49linuxstbSuddenDeath: But you'll need to undo what those ipodwizard instructions told you to do - e.g. restore your ipod with itunes.
18:15:10linuxstb(or restore a known working bootpartition.bin)
18:18:03SuddenDeathI would have done.. but the ipods frozen on the black screen with the white apple logo so its not being detected by the computer :/
18:18:30linuxstbJust reset it (hold MENU+SELECT for a few seconds) then immediately press and hold SELECT+PLAY to force it into disk mode.
18:19:11SuddenDeathOh.. ok.. I was trying to force it into disk mode by holding rewind and fast forward after resetting it.. I'll try that..
18:19:29SuddenDeathah that worked..
18:20:12SuddenDeathso now do I need to restore it?
18:21:25linuxstbYes. Or restore a backup of your original bootpartition.bin if you have one.
18:22:11SuddenDeathI dont think I have one.. If I did where would I put that?
18:22:35SuddenDeathNope nevermind I dont have one..
18:23:40perl|workthis page became very heavy:
18:23:52perl|worktakes a decade to load, hard to navigate etc
18:24:43SuddenDeathlinuxstb, if I want to get Multiple Themes then I shouldn't use the ipodwizard instructions to install rockbox?
18:27:32linuxstbI've no idea what you mean by "Multiple Themes". Rockbox supports user-installable themes.
18:28:56SuddenDeathUmm.. Nevermind then I'll do it myself. Thanks for the help.
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18:42:01insectoidIs it possible to completely delete all data from all partitions on an Ipod 5g on Windows, maybe using a Cygwin utility or something?
18:42:33insectoidWithout rendering the Ipod completely unusable (I.E. restoring it afterwards)
18:42:52bluebrotheryou could use some safe delete tool.
18:43:11bluebrotheron linux there is shred, for windows there is a tool by sysinternals around iirc.
18:43:17insectoidWill that vaporize the boot sector, too? I think something's screwy there.
18:49:57bluebrotheryou can overwrite the mbr with the ones provided on the download page
18:50:16bluebrotherbut I guess you'll need to reinstall the apple firmware in that case too.
18:50:57insectoidI have a version of ipodpatcher with built-in bootloader, how do I overwrite the mbr/Can you point me at a URL?
18:51:31bluebrother has mbrs
18:51:39insectoidThank you
18:51:51bluebrotherno idea how to write it on windows, on linux you can use dd
18:52:07bluebrothermaybe the easiest solution is to use a linux live cd ;-)
18:52:31 Quit davina ("byeeeeee!")
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18:54:16insectoidDo I want mbr-video30gb-2048.bin
18:54:27insectoidOr just the regular mbr-video30gb.bin
18:55:10bluebrotherdepends on your video. If it's 5.5G you want the 2048 version
18:56:08insectoidI'm not sure if it's 5 or 5.5. I picked it up new in January.
18:57:02bluebrotheripodpatcher might tell it −− not exactly sure though
18:57:17bluebrotherbut you can just run ipodpatcher, look at the output and cancel it
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18:59:22insectoidThe main problem I am experiencing, and perhaps I'm going about this the wrong way, is while copying I keep getting windows delayed write failed, and crc checksum errors while copying and if I try cp it throws I/O error. I've formatted the drive, ran Ipod Restore from Itunes and reinstalled the Rockbox bootloader. Some files copy, but not all.
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19:00:34bluebrotherhmm. This sounds like a hard disk failure.
19:00:55bluebrothermaybe chkdsk-ing the disk helps
19:01:03insectoidDone that several times.
19:01:30joshinCould be a bad cable or something funky with the USB driver/port
19:01:49insectoidUsually after copying fails there's file fragments about, but if I were to run it now, for instance, it shows no errors.
19:02:02joshinOr you not disconnecting the device properly.
19:02:16joshin(Though I'd guess the last one is not the case)
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19:03:01bluebrotheryou could also try using a different PC and see if it helps
19:03:05insectoidHow do I toss this bin image onto where it needs to go?
19:03:07insectoidI have dd
19:03:10insectoidwith Cygwin
19:03:41bluebrotheron linux, you dd if=mbr-something.bin of=/dev/sda
19:03:53bluebrotherno idea about the exact syntax on cygwin
19:04:13bluebrotherbut you put that mbr file directly to the disk (i.e. not some partition but the very beginning of the disk)
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19:06:22spiorfbluebrother, i tried the opposite some time ago ( dd if=/dev/uba of=file) and it ended up with a 2gb file ( i have a 2gb nano)
19:06:43spiorfwhat i have to type to backup only the mbr?
19:06:57bluebrotherspiorf: sure, as that reads the whole input file
19:07:21bluebrotheryou need to add bs=512 count=1 for backing up the mbr (exactly the first 512 bytes of the disk)
19:07:32spiorfonce i wrote also /dev/sda2 and deleted a partition of a sata disk :P
19:07:56***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:08:03bluebrotheroverwriting the first 512 bytes of a partition isn't a good idea ;-)
19:08:16spiorfyeah, i lost all my windows games
19:08:29bluebrother(and to be precise, overwriting the mbr of a disk isn't a good idea too, unless you know what you're doing)
19:08:56spiorfif it's the ipod's mbr i can always restore it with the apple thing
19:09:09 Quit barrywardell (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:09:31bluebrotherfor FAT partition the first sector of the partition holds vital data about the filesystem
19:10:36spiorfext3 too?
19:11:29insectoidOff topic: Has anyone seen the cf flash adapters for Ipods? Rather nifty stuff −− replacing the hd with a cf card.
19:11:33bluebrotherI guess, but I haven't looked into ext3 that much. At least there is a copy of that data somewhere "later" on disk
19:11:56bluebrotherinsectoid: I replaced the microdrive in my mini with a CF card once
19:12:06bluebrotherit was only for trying it, but it's quite nice.
19:12:35insectoidBattery life increase, Bluebrother?
19:12:40bluebrotherthe only problem seems to be some cards making trouble −− I wasn't able connecting the ipod to the pc to copy data with it
19:13:10bluebrotherhaven't tried it that much −− had only a small card lying around. But as hard drives consume quite some power when spinning I guess so
19:13:29bluebrotherI was just curious and as I replaced the battery I simply tried it for like half an hour
19:13:40bluebrotheryou need to patch Rockbox to work too.
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19:14:10bluebrotherthe cards fail upon some ata command. There is information about it in the wiki (MiniCF iirc)
19:14:17bluebrotherbut OF was up and running
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19:24:21fm2Nico_P: hello Nico. I've seen your commit. Well done!
19:24:33Nico_Pfm2: thanks :)
19:25:03Nico_Pit did some good to the binsize too :)
19:26:12fm2Yes, I noticed that. I suspect there are many places in RB code which could make up for a green build
19:27:31LloreanMake up for?
19:27:55bluebrotherfor green delta :)
19:29:23LloreanOh, like "allow for", I was reading it as the negative connotation of "make up for". Like "allow me to make it up to you for ruining your wedding" and I was slightly confused. :)
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19:30:32Lloreanbarrywardell: In the logs I did my own RMAA test on the Sansa with Toni's patch, and it actually looked quite good, though I discovered the volume display definitely isn't working as intended.
19:31:59*bluebrother discoveres the manual patch for rtc tags already lists the atomized tags. Nice!
19:32:54amiconnbluebrother: dd in cygwin works like on linux, just you need to know how it translates *nix device names to windows device names
19:33:00 Part Neovanglist
19:33:12amiconnIn windows disk management, you can see a drive number
19:33:28amiconnNumber 0 is called sda in cygwin, number 1 sdb and so forth
19:33:35bluebrotherah. Nice to know.
19:33:41amiconnThere's also a native win32 'dd'
19:33:54amiconn...which uses windows physical device names
19:35:48bluebrotherhmm. Maybe this information is interesting for the manual ipod restore page?
19:36:42 Quit insectoid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:37:38amiconnNative win32 device names are like \\?\Device\Harddisk0
19:38:22amiconn(the native dd has a −−list option that shows what is mounted)
19:38:53amiconnYou need to append the partition to this. \Partition0 is the whole drive
19:39:30amiconnHehe, and it can be used to distinguish G5 and G5.5, since it shows the blocksize
19:39:50bluebrotheroh, that's really nice
19:40:22amiconnOutput looks e.g. like this (this is my internal hdd):
19:40:23amiconn Fixed hard disk media. Block size = 512
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19:45:05barrywardellLlorean: what do you mean by volume display?
19:45:09*barrywardell checks the logs
19:45:45bluebrotherhehe, those "anti-examples" in wikipedia on dd are somewhat nice ;-)
19:46:18Lloreanbarrywardell: 1db change in displayed volume is equal to 1.5 in actual volume, but Rockbox never skips over numbers.
19:46:41LloreanAssuming 0 equals 0 (it does not seem to), -1rb = -1.5 actual, -2 = -3, -3 = -4.5 and so on.
19:46:49 Part fm2
19:46:52barrywardellhmm. that's odd
19:47:12barrywardellrockbox does round the volume to the nearest db
19:47:23LloreanSince I recall there being a "minimum" after which turning down the volume to lower numbers did not result in lowered volume, I'm guessing that may be part of where our "it's not loud enough" comes from. We've got a compressed scale.
19:47:50LloreanWell the output doesn't show that it's rounding.
19:48:10barrywardelli mean rockbox uses 1db increments
19:48:23barrywardellbut the hardware adjusts the volume in 1.5db increments
19:48:33barrywardellso the current volume control is a bit of a hack
19:49:14amiconnIiuc that just means that 2 of 3 rockbox volume values actually map to the same volume, nothing more
19:49:36amiconnI.e. 0 is 0, -1 is -1.5, -2 is -3 and -3 is also -3
19:49:51amiconn(assuming it rounds down)
19:49:52barrywardellthe "it's not loud enough" problem is most likely because we set the DAC volume too low
19:50:16barrywardellamiconn: makes sense. off the top of my head, I can't remember how it rounds
19:50:22Lloreanamiconn: They don't, though.
19:50:52Lloreanamiconn: Every 1dB step in Rockbox changes the output level 1.5dB
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19:51:39LloreanAt least down to -10, every single step results in a volume change.
19:51:44linuxstbbarrywardell: Are you sure the 18-bit I2S transfers are correct on the Sansa? i.e. it's not truncating the samples?
19:51:57amiconnLlorean: Afaics it divides by 15, that means, it does what it should
19:51:58barrywardellnot at all sure.
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19:52:19amiconn...rounding towards the nearest 1.5dB value
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19:52:35Lloreanamiconn: Well, real-world results don't match what the math seems it should do.
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19:52:57barrywardelllinuxstb: but the DAC volume is set quite low also
19:53:02LloreanI'm staring at a reading of the output right now, and each step of 1 in Rockbox is changing it a clear 1.5
19:53:08barrywardellso that could be at least part of the problem
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19:54:00Lloreanbarrywardell: When running my RMAA test, the Gigabeat set at about -17dB was _about_ the same loudness as the Sansa at 0
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19:55:03bluebrotherNico_P: I'm not sure if it's related to the tokenizer, but I have the impression switching to the wps got slower
19:55:13fm2Nico_P: why did you if-false'd the dump of the parsed WPS?
19:55:28barrywardellLlorean: and the DAC volume is set at -16.5dB
19:55:29merbananone more slot for rockbox
19:55:34bluebrotheri.e. when I change to the wps (iCatcher) on my mini I see the battery outline first and the battery bars a bit later
19:55:38perl|worksorry for the offtopic. does anyone have an idea what font is this:
19:55:39barrywardellLlorean: so that kinda sounds about right
19:55:41Lloreanbarrywardell: Well, that suggests we might know what level to try it at? ;)
19:55:58Nico_Pfm2: because people using the sim probably don't want to see the lengthy debug info all the time
19:56:02barrywardellthe problem is that the over current protection kicks in at higher volumes
19:56:14Lloreanbarrywardell: Well the anti-vinyl patch disabled it, doesn't it?
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19:56:23Lloreanbarrywardell: On the basis that the OF does so as well
19:56:33Lloreanbarrywardell: Sorry, all these tests were with that patch.
19:56:36barrywardellyeah, but is disabling over current protection a good thing? surely not
19:56:49barrywardellwe don't know that the of does so, do we?
19:56:53Nico_Pbluebrother: you mean switching back and forth to and from the WPS from a menu/brwoser ?
19:56:54fm2Nico_P: it's only done once when the WPS is read and parsed. And what's the value of that statements then? It's only dumped in DEBUG builds.
19:57:00bluebrotherNico_P: yes.
19:57:00Lloreanbarrywardell: Toni claims he's sure it does.
19:57:16Lloreanbarrywardell: He says that's why he did it.
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19:57:34Nico_Pbluebrother: I don't think this could have been affected by the tokenizer...
19:57:40barrywardellhmmm. OK. seems odd, but if the OF does it I guess we can too
19:57:48bluebrothernot a problem, but I thought I'd mention it. Maybe you have an idea ;-)
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19:58:12Nico_Pfm2: it's not done often but I still think it should be disabled by defaukt
19:58:13Lloreanbarrywardell: That's kinda what I thought. Do you know what the overcurrent protection is actually "protecting"?
19:58:42Nico_Pfm2: even I am annoyed by this output when I'm not debugging the WPS code
19:59:15Nico_Pfm2: and it also appears when you load a new WPS. Some people use the sim to test WPSs
19:59:35fm2Nico_P: you'll be annoyed by any debug output that doesn't belong to what you're doing. So WPS parsing is no different than other DEBUGs
19:59:56fm2Nico_P: sim, but not debug builds
20:00:18fm2Nothing is dumped in the normal sim builds
20:00:33Nico_Pfm2: the WPS debug info is extremely long. much longer than any other. If you really want it, it's not a big effort to change false to true
20:00:39saratogahas anyone here noticed Toni's occasional postings in various threads about the PP5024 power consumption measurements hes been doing?
20:00:43Nico_Pfm2: it is
20:00:51barrywardellLlorean: the datasheet calls it "headphone over-current protection" and says it kicks in when either l or r go above 145mA or common goes above 210mA
20:01:04Nico_PI use normal sim builds all the time and still get the output
20:01:09fm2Nico_P: how so? It's protected by #ifdef DEBUG
20:01:13saratogahe suggested that on the 5024 at least, disabling the COP doesn't change power consumption
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20:01:29barrywardellLlorean: so I guess it protects from blowing the headphones
20:01:30Nico_Pfm2: simple : #ifdef DEBUG is true in sim builds
20:01:30saratogawhich makes me think we think it doesn't actually go to sleep
20:02:16amiconn145mA? I think that 0dB shouldn't get near that...
20:02:25fm2Nico_P: really? I think you have a debug sim build. A "plain" sim isn't a debug build. But I can be wrong
20:02:54amiconn100mW at 16 ohm means ~1.26V and 80mA (ac of course)
20:02:56 Quit fm2 ("Anyway... I have to go.")
20:03:05barrywardellamiconn: maybe we need someone with a multimeter to test it
20:03:14Lloreanbarrywardell: Yeah, I'm having a really hard time believing that the phones are drawing that much when it kicks out right now.
20:03:18Nico_Pfm2: well I've mainly tested the tokenizer on sim builds so I know what I'm saying
20:03:24amiconnAnd 100mW is more than most mp3 players are able to produce (and way more than what is good for your ears)
20:04:49LloreanMaybe this is a feature of the chip intended for use in other (non-DAP) hardware?
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20:05:38saratogai wonder what headphones people are using that seem too quiet
20:05:59saratoga145ma is a lot of power
20:06:08saratoga(well current anyway)
20:06:15Lloreansaratoga: Any. It's quieter than the retail firmware under almost any circumstances. Ignore the number for the time being.
20:06:22barrywardellLlorean: yeah, or maybe PP changed things when they integrated it into the PP5024
20:06:27LloreanAs I said, it gets up to the equivalent of -17 on my Gigabeat.
20:06:30saratogai mean, where it was too quiet for them to use comfortably
20:06:43Lloreanbarrywardell: That's possible too.
20:06:53amiconnIf you have 145mA in 16 ohm heaphones, they're not headphones, they're speakers
20:07:12saratogayou'd be driving 1/3 of a watt into them
20:07:13LloreanAnyway, my vote is for disabling it, since a bunch of the AnythingButiPod guys have tested it without damaging their phones.
20:07:33 Quit inversions ()
20:07:54barrywardellamiconn: would I be able to measure what's actually happening with a multimeter?
20:08:02saratoganot easily
20:08:05amiconnLlorean: You surely won't damage the phones under normal conditions. Headphone overcurrent protection is good for 2 things:
20:08:17 Join inversions [0] (
20:08:21saratogayou could play a 60Hz tone and use the AC setting on a DMM
20:08:28amiconn(1) broken (shorted) coupling capacitor, in which case you would be driving dc to the phones
20:09:12amiconn(2) Shorting the heaphone socket (happens regularly for a fraction of a second if you plug/unplug phones to/from a 3.5mm jack).
20:09:25amiconnIn this case overcurrent protection is protecting the dac (!)
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20:09:35Lloreanamiconn: Well they haven't broken their DACs either. :)
20:10:24barrywardellwasn't there a guy in the forums who claimed it blew his headphones?
20:10:44amiconnsaratoga: You aren't forced to use 60Hz, but the frequency should be within the range supported by the multimeter, and it should be a sine tone, unless you have a true rms meter
20:11:45barrywardellOK, I'll get my multimeter out later and do some testing
20:12:15saratogahard to say what he actually did though
20:12:29saratogaprobably just a random failure given that he had the overcurrent protection on anyway
20:13:00Lloreanbarrywardell: Yeah, the person who blew his phones is rather dubious at best.
20:13:11LloreanIf anything, since he blew them while it was on, and the retail doesn't use it... ;)
20:13:32barrywardellyeah, I've seen some of his other posts ;)
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20:21:23amiconnbluebrother: Didn't you forget to update a file?
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20:23:49jinroIs there a plugin or something that will let rockbox view rich text formatted files instead of just text?
20:24:52Lloreanjinro: No official ones, at least.
20:25:23jinrook. thanks. But it is right that it will only view plain text files?
20:29:18jinrothanks... and to whomever, thank you for rockbox. It's awesome!
20:39:42kkurbjunI was wondering if anyone knows why the GB bootloader starts with a hundred byte offset from 0. The SDRAM should be starting at 0 from what I am seeing in the memory mapping. When I try writing to that 100 byte range during boot it fails and the screen washes out. Does anyone know the details of that 100 byte range?
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20:48:50fm2Bagder: ping
20:49:19fm2Or anyone using sim builds
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20:50:36fm2Is it true that every sim build has the DEBUG option enabled? I ask because this is not true for me. But Nico_P says it is. So I want to know if everythink is OK with my local build environment.
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20:51:32fm2Or does it depend on the platform (I use H120)?
20:53:49fm2markun: could you tell me how it should be?
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20:56:07amiconnSims always have DEBUGF() defined non-empty
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20:58:10amiconn...and binaries aren'
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20:58:41amiconnt stripped (that's why they are so large), so you can use gdb
21:02:55RincewindI tried to use gdb on a sim build recently and it only worked correctly (i.e. showing the line in source etc) when I used a special debug build
21:03:25RincewindI am on H120, too
21:04:31 Quit Rincewind ("Cya")
21:04:51*amiconn always builds his sims with just (S), and gdb always shows file + line number in gdb when asked
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21:05:03amiconnMy sims also include h120
21:05:23RincewindI tried to use gdb on a sim build recently and it only worked correctly (i.e. showing the line in source etc) when I used a special debug build
21:05:51Rincewindsorry for double post, I thought my client disconnected me again
21:05:58*amiconn wonders what a "special debug build" is, regaridng sims
21:06:31Rincewindin configure I selected advanced, then the debug and sim option
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21:07:31RincewindI use gdb in Emacs, btw.
21:07:59***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:09:26TailsfanAnyone on that can help me?
21:10:38 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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21:11:02RincewindTailsfan: just ask your question, then we can see if we can help
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21:13:31amiconnRincewind: The generated Makefile and autoconf.h are identical regardless whether you choose (A)+(S)+(D) or just (S), I just verified that
21:14:05Rincewindok, then it was something in my setup that wasn't working the first time
21:14:46amiconnEspecially DEBUG is defined in both cases
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21:18:20TailsfanCan VVideo be played on Rockbox?
21:18:31 Quit tchan (Remote closed the connection)
21:19:22Tailsfanand if so what kinds of video
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21:22:57TailsfanCan it
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21:38:06amiconnChecking the agenda at , it looks like not much of that was actually done during the last year (even though a lot of stuff happened) :/
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21:38:24LloreanAgendas, like battle plans, only last until the first charge.
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21:39:46amiconnThe last four points happened more or less, plus the flexible code base thing (target tree), but even that isn't finished yet
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21:41:51amiconn#3 is the most important part for a dap firmware imo. None of its major sub items are done, although quite some playback cleanup happened
21:42:18LloreanThe playback buffer renovation?
21:42:19 Quit pabs ("brb")
21:43:26amiconnYes. Splitting up playback in modules, MoB, unification ... all important things imo, but not yet there
21:43:37amiconnMoB is a proposed GSoC project, I know...
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22:00:16bluebrotheramiconn: right ... forgot the credits file. Fixing ...
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22:13:36peturis somebody attending the gsoc chat today regarding student allocations?
22:14:43BagderI see we have 4 atm
22:15:22merbananyou got one from us :)
22:17:10linuxstbmerbanan: How many have ffmpeg got?
22:17:15BagderI'd say that our top-4 projects are the best ones
22:17:33LloreanBagder: I talked to our real time text-to-speech guy, and he said that he thinks it's unlikely he'll be picked by his conflict at the cancer place. He said he talked with them, but wasn't able to really examine their project and get back to them
22:17:48LloreanHe's the only conflict we have in the top 4, I believe
22:18:00Bagderah, I hadn't spotted that
22:18:25BagderLlorean: you tried talking to anyone in that project about it?
22:19:29Bagderon that topic, desowin took the audacity way
22:19:33LloreanBagder: No, all I did was sent a polite email to the guy who posed Text to Speech to us asking that if a conflict came up, did he know who he felt he would choose so that we might be prepared.
22:19:53peturthe gsoc group talks about joining that chat session before 22:00 UTC to resolve conflicts prior to 'the' chat
22:20:33Bagderso where is that chat more exactly?
22:20:44merbananlinuxstb: we had 8 and now we have 7
22:22:49 Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
22:23:12LloreanI wonder if that additional one was a result of my email, or was just going to happen anyway.
22:23:43peturlet's all pretend you did it :)
22:24:13*petur pats Llorean on the back
22:25:22Bagderuhm, what project is that Comprehensive Cancer Center anyway?
22:25:31BagderI don't see it in the mentor org listing
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22:26:26*preglow checks the project page
22:27:03Bagderaha, I'm blind!
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22:27:49preglowthen rockbox is perfect for you!
22:28:52preglowseems i'm possibly up for some mentoring, then
22:29:17linuxstbpreglow: Nicely volunteered....
22:30:04preglowmerbanan: any news on the wma fixed pointification deal?
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23:21:51H10_007quickHow do I tell svn to get rid of all unknow fiiles?
23:22:03 Quit My_Sic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:22:13bluebrotherwhat unknown files?
23:22:21H10_007quicksay .rej files etc
23:22:31H10_007quickanything that is not in the svn
23:22:37bluebrotherthese aren't files of svn, so it doesn't know about them
23:22:55bluebrothersimply remove them yourself ... e.g. use find to delete all those files
23:23:04H10_007quickhow do I tell it to get rid of everything it doesn't know
23:23:10H10_007quickno other way?
23:23:38bluebrotherI don't think svn should remove files itself −− it may be other source files you created
23:23:54Bagdersvn st | grep "^?" | cut "-d " -f7 | xargs rm
23:23:57bluebrotherso simply removing them doesn't look like a useful function to me
23:24:26H10_007quickthats what i was looking for
23:25:04Bagderit's a bit simplistic, and breaks if the file names contain spaces
23:25:19Bagderbut no sane person creates such files ;-)
23:25:34bluebrotherwho wants spaces in filenames anyway (unless it's media files)?
23:26:01H10_007quickneed an -f at the end of that chain
23:26:17bluebrotheryou shouldn't need to.
23:26:18 Quit Domonoky_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:26:35 Join ze [0] (
23:26:38H10_007quickdidn't work for me unless I had the -f
23:26:56bluebrothercreated file with wrong permissions? As different user?
23:27:46H10_007quickno it just wants to ask to confirm the delete of every file and since it is being piped, it doesn't let you ask for it
23:28:09H10_007quickjust get rm: missing operand
23:28:27bluebrotherah, so you have rm aliased to rm -i
23:28:55H10_007quickwell I didn't aliase anything
23:29:03H10_007quickmusta came like that
23:29:06bluebrotherthen your distro did?
23:29:12 Quit lost|X40 ("Leaving")
23:29:30bluebrotherFedora for example aliases rm to rm -i for the root user.
23:29:42H10_007quickI've got mandriva
23:29:49bluebrotherbut who is working as root user anyway?
23:29:56H10_007quicknot me
23:30:19bluebrotherjust type "alias" and see if it's aliased. If yes you know the cause ;-)
23:31:29H10_007quickalias rm='rm -i'
23:31:41H10_007quickwhere is the file were all that is stored?
23:34:06bluebrother~/.bashrc (at least in my case)
23:35:42 Join FromVanov [0] (
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23:36:17 Quit funky ("leaving")
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23:37:21slapnpopis there anyone around who might could give me help with an Ipod 4g?
23:37:45slapnpopI tried to install rockbox, but it won't load to either rockbox or firmware at this point...
23:38:22H10_007quickmine is in etc/profile.d/
23:38:35H10_007quickwent through 3 files to get there
23:39:12H10_007quickan alias is like a function that works like a command right?
23:39:31H10_007quickso i could make "kjlf" = "cd .."
23:39:41LloreanBagder: Okay, our #4 is below the line at the cancer institute.
23:40:59*petur wonders who's joining the chat session on behalf or rockbox
23:41:26slapnpopon behalf of.. no because of..
23:41:31slapnpopI need to read closer...
23:41:47 Join lostnihilist [0] (
23:41:51Lloreanpetur: Well, I, Bagder, linuxstb, and scorche seem to be in duplicate-resolution channel right now
23:42:20LloreanBut our duplicates seem resolved.
23:42:29FromVanovHi guys, I have some PCB scans of Samsung YH-920. I would like to stick them on the wiki page. What would be the best way of doing that? I have registered myself (RomanHorenovsky), however I don't have write permission. Cheers.
23:42:42bluebrotherH10_007quick: you could do that.
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23:43:05Thatchhey, i have a problem
23:43:05bluebrothernot sure if that strange combination would make sense though ;-)
23:43:12Thatchi was wondering if anybody had any ideas
23:43:13H10_007quickbluebrother: I googled it
23:43:23Thatchany takers?
23:43:48linuxstbThatch: Maybe I missed it, but you don't appear to have stated the problem...
23:43:52bluebrotherunless you tell us your problem nobody will have good ideas
23:43:56Thatchmy g5 30gb ipod is frozen on
23:44:03Thatchis not responding to anything
23:44:14Thatcheven usb connection
23:44:30linuxstbDoes "anything" include holding MENU+SELECT for a few seconds to reset it?
23:44:32Thatchi put rockbox on it yesterday
23:44:41Thatchyeah, that too linuxstb
23:44:44slapnpopThatch: I had that happen once and had to let the battery die completely, other option is opening it up and unplugging
23:45:04slapnpopI can't even access my ipod
23:45:10Thatchoh wait
23:45:12Thatchi just dropped it
23:45:16Thatchits working now.
23:45:25Thatchthank you apple.
23:45:41bluebrotherFromVanov: done.
23:45:46Thatchslapnpop: yeah, thats what i was thinking, the letting it die part.
23:46:10Thatchslapnpop: but it seems to be working now.
23:46:19slapnpopi installed rockbox, and the boot loader. When it's booting, it does the rockbox firmware part, but can't find rockbox.ipod, and won't load. If I go for the original firmware, rockbox says loading original firmware, then just resets to rockbox again, at which point it can't find rockbox.ipod
23:46:49linuxstbslapnpop: Sounds like your install went badly wrong... What instructions did you follow?
23:47:05slapnpopthe ones on the manual, not my first rockbox install.
23:47:19slapnpopjust re-installing after an ipod restore
23:47:29Thatchslapnpop: I was suprised that mine worked on the first install, its usually not that easy.
23:47:35slapnpopat this point, I just want to get into disc mode, but can't find a way
23:47:44Lloreanslapnpop: Menu+Select, Select+Play
23:47:53LloreanAlso, you should never, EVER need to wait until your iPod completely dies.
23:48:19LloreanRockbox does not (and cannot without significant changes) modify the iPods ability to reset on Menu+Select
23:48:26bluebrotherhmm. When I plug in the usb cable my mini sometimes gets stuck at the usb logo screen. Is there a known issue?
23:48:31LloreanBut you may need to turn hold on and off first, and may need to hold it longer than you expect.
23:48:42slapnpopyeah, it kills the battery, but there are some hard crashes where nothing else works
23:48:51pixelmabluebrother: yes
23:49:00bluebrotherah, that explains it ;-)
23:49:11Lloreanslapnpop: If you think nothing else works, you're doing Menu+Select wrong. Trust me.
23:49:25slapnpopmay not be rockbox's fault, but crashes none the less...
23:49:32slapnpopand no, I wasn't doing menu+select wrong.
23:49:39pixelmabluebrother: the problem is that nobody knows why
23:49:54FromVanovbluebrother: thaks
23:50:00Lloreanslapnpop: Yes, you really were unless your iPod is defective.
23:50:06linuxstbslapnpop: menu+select is a hardware reset - it's never failed for me, no matter what kind of crazy and broken code I've been running on my ipod.
23:50:29slapnpopwell, then my Ipod MUST be defective.
23:50:31 Quit bawb2 (Remote closed the connection)
23:50:54slapnpopthat being said, opening up the case and pulling the battery cable resets it just fine.
23:51:09Lloreanslapnpop: Describe exactly the whole process you use, including durections, for menu + select
23:51:11 Join bawb2 [0] (
23:51:16bluebrotherpixelma: is that problem specific to the mini / a PP generation or does it affect all ipods? Haven't seen anything in the FAQ
23:52:06slapnpophold down select, then hold down menu. Also tried simutanious hold down, and hold down menu, then hold down select.
23:52:14slapnpopThis was months ago, btw.
23:52:19Lloreanslapnpop: See, you did it wrong
23:52:29Lloreanslapnpop: The official procedure, for worst case, requires you to turn hold on then off first.
23:52:35LloreanIt seems necessary under worst-case freezes
23:52:38pixelmaI also experienced it on a mini, but IIRC linuxstb has seen it too (maybe it happens more frequently there)
23:52:40LloreanI also asked for durations.
23:53:03LloreanBecause it often takes much longer than people expect with the worse freezes, for some reason, as much as 15-20 seconds I believe.
23:53:06linuxstbpixelma: I think USB reliably doesn't work on my ipods if I boot with the USB connected...
23:53:09 Quit ender` (" (Coder's Ditty) 100 little bugs in the code, 100 bugs in the code, fix one bug, compile it again, 102 little bugs in the cod)
23:53:11bluebrotherhmm. Should I add a note to the FAQ?
23:53:18slapnpopno, you asked for durections, I thought you meant directions.
23:53:21linuxstbbluebrother: Or fix the bug :)
23:53:30bluebrotherif I boot with usb connected the buttons become unresponsive :(
23:53:33Lloreanslapnpop: Apparently I can't type.
23:53:38Lloreanslapnpop: It doesn't change that you did the process wrong.
23:53:40slapnpopI tried the hold as well, and tried holding buttons for up to a minute...
23:53:43slapnpopit's ok, I can't either.
23:53:49bluebrotherlinuxstb: nice alternative. If only ... ah, "time" was the show stopper
23:53:52LloreanYou didn't mention the hold, despite my use of the word "Exact"
23:54:03slapnpopbtw, play+select got me into disc mode fine!
23:54:40slapnpopforgive my bad memory, but I tried every combination of buttons I could for about 2 hours before opening the case, and as I mentioned, it was months ago I had that problem
23:55:36pixelmabluebrother: I believe there even was a short forum thread about it
23:56:02Lloreanlinuxstb: Do you know what jhmike's mpegplayer changes fix? Is it the issue with video going out of sync if at really low framerates?
23:56:19 Quit ompaul ("dive dive dive - mine data")
23:57:04ThatchDoes anybody know of an app that renames mp3 (or any other type) files based on id tags?
23:57:12datachildi have a problem with my ipod video, rockbox keeps saying "codec error" whn i try to play a song
23:57:15datachildhow do i fix this?
23:57:20LloreanThatch: "Tag 'n Rename"
23:57:30bluebrotherdatachild: update your build completely
23:57:33datachildit's just a normal .mp3
23:57:38datachildhow'd i do that?
23:57:38ThatchLlorean: oh, well, there ya go. Thanks.
23:57:45datachildit's the latest build, bluebrother
23:57:46bluebrotherand if you have a recent build make sure to remove /rockbox.ipod
23:58:04bluebrotherdid you extract the complete build? What bootloader are you using?
23:58:12RincewindThatch: Mp3Tag is also very good
23:58:17datachildlet mech check if it works now
23:58:58datachildstill "Codec failure"
23:59:00bluebrotherpixelma: thanks.

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