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#rockbox log for 2007-04-13

00:00:00bluebrotherSliMM, it redirects stdout
00:00:03]RowaN[anyone know the filename needed for newest sandisk firmware to pick up the rockbox bootloader?
00:00:07 Join stripwax [0] (
00:00:07Bagder2> redirects stderr
00:00:22bluebrotheryou can &>something to redirect stdout and stderr at the same time
00:00:33amiconnSo I settled for what proved to work best: poll once per tick for a full second. See ata_mmc.c: initialize_card()
00:00:35SliMMBagder: are warnings displayd in stderr?
00:00:41 Join atsea- [0] (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-a1ad9a695ea68216)
00:00:45Bagderwell, 2>&1 redirects stderr to stdout
00:00:56BagderSliMM: yes I think so
00:01:03SliMMok, thx
00:01:12 Join lostnihilist [0] (
00:01:15stripwaxI've failed to find any simple tool that can convert a 24-bit bitmap into a 16-bit (565) bitmap. Imagemagick doesn't seem to do this, Irfan and PSP don't either - any recommendations?
00:01:20SliMMi should install linux
00:01:29bluebrotherdo we know how the micro sd is connected on the sansa? Would be great if we had it on some hardware spi ...
00:01:37Lloreanstripwax: Rockbox will convert them on load. Was there some reason you wanted to pre-convert?
00:01:45SliMMstripwax: The GIMP
00:02:04stripwaxLlorean - yep. I don't like the rockbox unform dither. My wps backgrounds look grainy
00:02:14stripwaxNoticeably so
00:02:29stripwaxSliMM - hmm, good idea - dunno why I didn't think of that before
00:02:47SliMMllorean: rockbox didn't convert my pre-converted bitmaps to fb_data
00:03:03LloreanSliMM: How did you load them?
00:03:20SliMMstripwax: after converting to 16 bit bitmap, re-open and save as 24 bit
00:03:26stripwaxLlorean - (and I think rockbox shouldn't need to do anything better than uniform; if I want optimised 565 bitmaps I'm happy to do that offline as it were)
00:03:32stripwaxSliMM - thanks for the tip!
00:03:50SliMMllorean: just like all other plugin bitmaps
00:04:18LloreanIt used to be that Rockbox was only supposed to support 1, 8, and 24.
00:04:36LloreanI thought that was extended. Either way, if it loads a bitmap and doesn't handle it properly (either by rejecting it, or converting it) that's a bug.
00:05:30SliMMllorean: it didn't compile with 16 bit bitmaps
00:05:45SliMMi thinl..
00:05:50LloreanAh, well that's different. You said it didn't convert them. :)
00:07:01linuxstb_bmp2rb should support 1, 4, 8, 16 and 24 bpp bitmaps.
00:07:13SliMMyo've got a point.. :)
00:07:23 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
00:07:26Lloreanlinuxstb_: So there's definitely something wrong?
00:07:40linuxstb_But I think there's many formats of 16-bit, and maybe bmp2rb doesn't support them all.
00:07:41SliMMwell, it didn't support photoshop's 565 16 bpp bitmaps
00:08:07stripwax^ mm , so photoshop would work for me too ? :-)
00:08:32SliMMstripwax, if you have it :)
00:08:57linuxstb_Did bmp2rb give you an error on those bitmaps?
00:09:03stripwaxAnnoying Paintshop Pro doesn't but I guess you get what you pay for
00:09:15 Join homielowe [0] (i=cf06d8e7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:09:39SliMMlinuxstb_: i got some error, but i can't remember what was it
00:09:46SliMMi can test it
00:09:53 Quit moos ("Glory to Rockbox")
00:09:53SliMM2 min pls
00:11:30linuxstb_SliMM: Do you have a purpose in mind for your alpha-drawing functions?
00:12:08SliMMgood-looking (anti-aliased) plugin (at least static) graphics
00:13:07SliMMi'll implement wu's line algorithm when i feel lik doing that, for drawing anti-aliased lines
00:13:19linuxstb_Yes, but for what? You want to change existing plugins, or write a new one?
00:13:56SliMMi don't feel like changing the current plugins
00:14:17midkaysome people might want to change them, as well as it opens up possibilities for new ones...
00:14:41 Quit homielowe ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
00:14:48SliMManyone who wants that can change them, i'm a very lazy person :P
00:15:13midkayright, just mentioning to linuxstb_. it doesn
00:15:18midkaydoesn't have to be just one use or reason :)
00:15:39midkayi'd certainly be interested in updating plugins with new nice bitmaps...
00:15:43 Join andrew___ [0] (
00:15:43linuxstb_I'm just struggling to imagine a practical use for it...
00:16:00linuxstb_But I guess eye-candy doesn't come under the heading "practical"...
00:16:07midkayright :)
00:16:10stripwaxSliMM : - hm, so how do I actually convert an existing 24-bit rgb bitmap using Gimp into a 565 bitmap?
00:16:30stripwaxUnrelated question - how come only Archos has a Jackpot plugin? :-)
00:16:43mar27I don't see the mpegplayer plugin listed on my e200. is this included in the firmware for the e200 ?
00:17:04linuxstb_mar27: Have you read the wiki page about it?
00:17:39SliMMstripwax: i used photoshop, don't know how to do that in gimp
00:18:00mar27linuxtb: yes, i see that it has been tested with the e200 and that it should be included in the rockbox download
00:18:27stripwaxSliMM : - ah, thought you might know, since you suggested Gimp can do it! Ok, I'll hunt. Does not seem obvious..
00:18:34linuxstb_mar27: re-read the introduction...
00:19:22 Quit heanol (No route to host)
00:19:38amiconn_stripwax: There are some (well, 3) charcell-only plugins. Of course they could be made to work on bitmap targets if so desired, but all the drawing would be different
00:20:40 Quit Landus (No route to host)
00:21:06amiconn_Bagder: What about the build scripts wrt barrywardell's commit?
00:21:19 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
00:21:20 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
00:21:24Bagdercheck again
00:21:30*stripwax thinks a bitmap based jackpot would be neat
00:21:36amiconnOh, nice
00:21:48stripwaxOk. So. Gimp cannot do this. Gr.
00:22:07amiconn"statement with no effect"
00:22:11 Join haTem [0] (
00:22:28 Join safetydan [0] (i=cbca159f@rockbox/developer/safetydan)
00:22:57linuxstb_stripwax: You could always hack a utility together based on bmp2rb and the Rockbox screendump function.
00:23:32SliMMi could also write a fast box-blur function for windows vista-style "windows", over the backdrop
00:24:05 Join midkay_ [0] (
00:24:22linuxstb_SliMM: If you can do that with no noticable drop in UI performance, then go ahead :)
00:24:34stripwaxlinuxstb : - sure. I could write my own. but the point is I want something better than uniform dithering. someone surely has approach this problem before..
00:25:00SliMMlinuxstb_: for plugins
00:25:07*amiconn also wonders what happened to the sansa and h10 builds...
00:25:30SliMMstripwax: you said you have photoshop
00:25:32linuxstb_SliMM: Well, the same applies - I don't want slow plugins...
00:25:38stripwaxno. i don't
00:25:41SliMMor at least you sugested that
00:25:42amiconnAh, hmm, probably mi4 adds some padding..
00:25:58stripwaxonly have PSP (and now, The Gimp)
00:25:58Bagderamiconn: ah yes it does
00:25:59 Quit andrew___ ("leaving")
00:26:04SliMMdamn, i have to open gimp then..
00:26:12 Join andrew___ [0] (
00:26:18linuxstb_Yes, it's rounded up to sector multiples, with a 512-byte header.
00:26:38 Part haTem (".")
00:26:44stripwaxSo I guess in The Gimp I could manually select each layer and posterize to 32 or 64 colors as appropriate. That's sorta crappy though. (And still might not be possible)
00:27:14stripwaxIs green the 6 in 565 ?
00:27:15SliMMstripwax: wait 2 sec please
00:27:23SliMMstripwax: yes
00:28:07 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
00:28:18amiconnBagder: Hmm, then the delta check becomes less useful for mi4 targets
00:28:38Bagderhehe, indeed
00:29:28 Join jmspeex [0] (
00:29:36*Bagder goes to hug his pillow
00:30:39*pixelma wonders how long the PluginIndex page should take to pick up changes to a specific plugin page...
00:31:28 Join Massa [0] (
00:31:43Lloreanpixelma: Did you click "refresh cache" at the bottom?
00:31:44linuxstb_pixelma: Did you click on the "refresh cache" link at the bottom?
00:31:45 Nick Massa is now known as Massa_ (
00:31:59pixelmaI'll do that now twice ;)
00:32:21 Quit Massa_ (Client Quit)
00:32:35pixelmaah yes - that was it thanks :)
00:34:02linuxstb_Maybe we should start grouping targets on that page...
00:34:14 Quit ]RowaN[ ()
00:34:19SliMMstripwax: hmm.. i don't know..
00:34:41stripwaxyeah. even posterize doesn't do the right thing, cos it reduces by #colors rather than #bits. gah.
00:34:57stripwax"how hard could it be".
00:35:11stripwaxstill, The Gimp is scriptable right, maybe i can knock something up in that
00:35:14amiconnstripwax: Just save as 16 bit
00:35:33 Quit stripwax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:36:10 Join stripwax [0] (
00:36:19stripwaxgah. even my irc client is crap
00:36:41stripwaxSo, how do I just save as 16bit from The Gimp or Paintshop Pro?
00:37:01amiconnUmm, dunno
00:37:06stripwaxthis would also seem like a trivially obvious thing to be able to do, but it is not
00:37:19amiconnIn photoshop (elements) it's simple...
00:37:51stripwaxamiconn - that's unfortunately no help to me. unless photoshop (elements) is freely downloadable (legally) at this time of night
00:38:25pixelmalinuxstb: what kind of grouping?
00:38:58amiconnHah, as I kinda expected: my commit also fixes the ugly backlight on->off->fade in sequence on mini2g boot (and presumably also on nano and video) :)
00:39:06Lloreanpixelma: Perhaps screen type much like WPSes?
00:39:13amiconnSomething Slasheri didn't manage to fix even though he tried...
00:39:32amiconnThat's the little red delta for these 3 targets... and I know why it works now...
00:39:49SliMMstripwax: image>mode>decompose>rgb
00:39:57SliMMcolor reduction for each channel
00:40:09SliMMand then image>mode>compose
00:40:16SliMMi think that should do it
00:40:40stripwaxSliMM - can I do color reduction by #bits though or only #colors?
00:41:08pixelmaLlorean: but IIUC if a plugin works or not is not only dependent on the screen's resolution/colour depth (like I believe rockboy doesn't work on 4G greyscale Ipods)
00:41:19 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
00:41:19SliMMxbits = 2^x colors
00:41:46pixelmaLlorean: or clock on H1x0 ...
00:41:59stripwaxSliMM : - are they evenly spaced though, or does it use e.g. the 32 most common colours
00:42:05pixelmaalthough it's listed...
00:42:23linuxstb_pixelma: I'm not sure how it could work... It just seems to be a very confusing table now.
00:42:27 Quit midkay (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:43:00Lloreanpixelma: I think by "grouping" it'd just be reordering the columns so it's easier to spot your device in the list (in my mind)
00:43:08linuxstb_Maybe we could just use the existing magic to generate device-specific PluginIndex pages - i.e. listing all plugins for a specific target.
00:43:31pixelmashall I stop for now?
00:43:42SliMMstripwax: reduce the decomposed image to 63 colours (image>mode>index)
00:43:45stripwaxHrm. ok, thanks anyway. That's basically what I suggested before, but I'd get banding (which is a different artifact than uniform dither but just as bad really)
00:44:09pixelmathough I don't like "halfway done" things
00:44:19SliMMi don't think you'll get it
00:44:50stripwaxAh, image->mode->index sounds like a good idea. But then it's doing dithering on each plane rather than globally. but it sounds like it's better than nothing! Cheers
00:45:13SliMMstripwax: i can save your bitmaps 16bpp if you want me to (tommorow)
00:45:30SliMMstripwax: io've got a point :-?
00:45:51pixelmaLlorean: ah now I see what you mean...
00:45:58linuxstb_pixelma: No, I don't think you should stop. Although maybe we could consider getting rid of most of those plugin pages as they are now documented in the manual (or at least should be).
00:46:16SliMManyway, bye, it's 2 AM here
00:46:21stripwaxSliMM - no it's cool, I'll play with this. thx
00:47:09*stripwax is sure someone somewhere must have written a tool that can take 24-bit image data and convert to 16-bit 565 fs-dithered output
00:47:10SliMMyou could also get a photoshop trial, but let's not go off-topic
00:48:56pixelmaoh... the PluginChopper page is... informative... ;)
00:49:47stripwaxah, crap. Decomposing to layers isn't good enough because Image->mode->indexed applies globally to the whole image rather than each layer. I'll have to decompose to three separate images and then recombine. It's probably easier to do that in imagemagik..
00:50:32*SliMM goes to bed
00:50:38 Quit SliMM ("Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox]")
00:51:29p512oThank you Llorean, saratoga, bluebrother and everybody else.. i'm better heading for bed to rest my back. gonna take a look at the different specs and the rockbox code.. maybe i'll get some more understanding.. :) will come back the next days! ciao everyone!
00:57:08 Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC")
00:58:46 Part p512o ("Leaving")
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01:01:11 Quit ender` (" A bus station is where the bus stops. A train station is where the train stops. On my desk, I have a workstation.")
01:01:25 Join webguest85 [0] (i=1847df8c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:01:33webguest85I really need HELP!!!
01:01:43 Join grndslm [0] (
01:02:06webguest85I was installing boot loader and half way through i stopped it now it won't go into disk mode :(
01:02:42petursee ipodfaq in the wiki
01:02:43grndslmhow many flash players can rockbox run on? just sansa e200 (even e280?) and nano 1st gen??
01:02:58webguest85it diddn't help
01:03:14pixelmagrndslm: and OndioSP/FM :)
01:03:39grndslmpixelma: have you used it?
01:03:53pixelmaand there's a slowly progressing port to the iriver ifp
01:04:30grndslmis the nano gonna have the best sound quality out of the working flash players?
01:04:39grndslmwill the e280 work?
01:05:02pixelmagrndslm: I own on OndioFM but it belongs to the old category of hardware codec players
01:05:42pixelmastill I like it very much :)
01:06:03grndslmpixelma: i've never been an archos fan, they never seemed to get the interface right IMO
01:06:18joshingrndslm: The e280 is a subset of the group of e200 machines so it will run rockbox fine.
01:06:27 Join Forte [0] (
01:06:43pixelmagrndslm: I don't care about the Archos interface...
01:06:43joshinOr technically an element of the group of e200 machines. :)
01:06:59grndslmjoshin: whatever, man...
01:07:16grndslmwhen people say that rockbox improves sound that just because of flac and ogg support?
01:07:18grndslmor what?
01:08:23Fortewhats some good music people?
01:09:00webguest85I was installing boot loader and half way through i stopped it now it won't go into disk mode :( on mini ipod
01:09:02joshinRockbox is better at utilizing the flux capacitor with its wonderful equalizer. Of course if you take a look at the wiki for the e200, you'll see that sound quality is not yet optimized.
01:09:27grndslmForte: can help you out with that
01:09:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:09:41webguest85anyone help me?
01:09:59joshinwebguest85: did the restore link not help?
01:10:16webguest85IT DOES NOT GO INTO DISK MODE
01:10:55Fortehold play and select when booting
01:10:56joshinSo what does it do then when you hold Select and Play down?
01:11:03webguest85i did
01:11:11Forteipod minis are shit
01:11:14Fortemine is broken
01:11:21webguest85bright background and black apple
01:11:48joshinAre you sure you're moving your fingers from SEL+Menu to Sel+Play?
01:12:24 Quit matsl (Remote closed the connection)
01:13:46 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
01:13:49Forte my tripple screen setup
01:14:08joshinBummer, I guess you're going to need to make arrangements for its funeral.
01:14:35joshinForte: using Synergy?
01:14:46Fortefor the other laptop
01:15:01Fortejust because maxivista refuses to get signed drivers
01:15:24Lloreanwebguest85: If it freezes at the Apple logo, you aren't quite doing the disk mode thing right most likely. Try doing it later or earlier.
01:15:25Forteand im on x64
01:15:33LloreanForte: Please keep discussion on-topic to Rockbox.
01:15:39Forteim sorry Llorean
01:16:04amiconnImho the minis are the only ipods with a proper case (i.e. half-decent scratch resistance)
01:16:09webguest85i installed the loader about half way then stoped
01:16:22webguest85now it doesn't go in disk mode
01:16:22amiconnThe nano 2g also has that, but doesn't run rockbox
01:16:41grndslmi hate the mini's top & bottom edges tho...specifically the bottom
01:16:49grndslmdoesn't feel good in my hands at all
01:17:30webguest85and no it doesn't go into i have tried 20 times
01:18:09markunwebguest85: well, then I don't think there is anymore you can do
01:18:11Lloreanwebguest85: If you try the wrong thing 20 times, it won't make it any more likely to work.
01:18:29Lloreanwebguest85: What do you mean by "i intalled the loader about half way then stopped'
01:18:37webguest85well differant times
01:18:44webguest85just stopped the installer
01:18:50grndslmsoo...will sansa e280 ever be truly supported, sound quality, fm radio, & all??
01:18:53webguest85hold on
01:18:56Fortehow can you stop the installer
01:18:58Forteits like
01:19:01Forteand its done
01:19:12webguest85I installed b4 i put the .rockbox
01:19:29Lloreanwebguest85: If you've installed the bootloader, but not Rockbox, try this
01:19:39Lloreanwebguest85: Hold Menu+Select. As soon as the screen clears, turn on the hold switch
01:19:43LloreanLeave it on
01:19:48LloreanWait and see what happens
01:19:54Lloreangrndslm: If somebody does it, yes.
01:20:10webguest85same damned thing
01:20:13Lloreangrndslm: Rockbox is entirely volunteer effort, we can't promise that anything will ever happen.
01:20:19webguest85hold on TYVM
01:20:24webguest85IT WORKED
01:20:27Lloreanwebguest85: As I said, "wait"
01:20:36LloreanBecause the bootloader's working fine, this means that you *definitely* were doing Disk Mode wrong.
01:20:52webguest85but I owe u one
01:20:55LloreanAnyway, you can finish the install now
01:21:08webguest85or just restore it to apple lol
01:21:27LloreanWell yes, but if you didn't want Rockbox, why'd you start installing it?
01:21:40webguest85well, it was my friend's
01:21:45LloreanThe problem you encountered came from you not following the install instructions in the order they're written.
01:21:51webguest85and he wanted it
01:22:09webguest85yea i will finish another day
01:22:32webguest85well, bye
01:22:38 Quit webguest85 ("CGI:IRC")
01:23:02 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (
01:23:44pixelmaah... thanks petur :)
01:24:00peturheh, you reached wavview
01:27:37 Quit mar27 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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01:29:26 Quit petur ("Zzzzzz")
01:32:31 Part toffe82
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01:42:15 Nick midkay_ is now known as midkay (
01:42:35grndslmso...what do the rockbox gods suggest i buy? ipod, nano, e280?? I would like to start archiving cds in flac, so I'm assuming not the nano...
01:42:59grndslmplus its battery *reeaallly* sucks
01:43:25LloreanYou're gonna want a lot more than 8gb if you're archiving in flac.
01:43:30LloreanPick an HD based player
01:43:32LloreanSay, Gigabeat F60
01:43:57grndslmbut...a sandisk e280 8gb new for only $145 shipped sounds sooo tempting
01:44:15grndslmand i could just keep the archives on my desktop's hd...
01:44:17grndslmand take what i need
01:44:21markunbut if you are archiving in flac you can also produce ogg vorbis (or whatever) files from them to put on your player
01:44:26grndslmand then get the 64gb flash in another 3 years
01:44:59grndslmso, e280 prolly won't be so bad? i just don't want the sandisk support to totally suck for rockbox and me figure this out after i buy it
01:45:30grndslmas long as i can listen to quality recordings on a relatively stable rockbox...i think i'm gonna have to go for it
01:45:48grndslmi'll check out the gigabeat f60, tho
01:46:00Lloreangrndslm: You can purchase a 40gb Gigabeat for $99
01:46:29grndslmyea, i just don't like portable devices that use hds
01:46:40LloreanThe Sansa, as well as all iPods, use chips we can't support well yet. While they're "okay" for use, they aren't up yet to the same standards as the other players.
01:47:10amiconngrndslm: If you plan on using flac you'll need lots of storage capacity
01:47:16Lloreangrndslm: Then purchase a cheap HD based player, the cheapest you can find, and swap out for an SSD drive.
01:47:16grndslmdo you estimate support will gro for the sansas??
01:47:22amiconnSomething flash based daps don't offer yet
01:47:25grndslmamiconn: it doesn't take that long to transfer files
01:47:25Lloreangrndslm: As I said, it cannot be predicted.
01:47:38Lloreangrndslm: Support will grow if people get the work done.
01:47:48LloreanThis depends on too many factors to have any hope of even guessing.
01:47:56grndslmwell, don't you have a magic 8-ball around or something to give fools like me the answer
01:48:02 Quit atsea- (Connection reset by peer)
01:48:05Lloreangrndslm: No, never fully supported.
01:48:19grndslmawesome...gigabeat it is
01:48:22LloreanMy 8-ball said "Signs are negative"
01:48:27 Join atsea-87 [0] (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-d44b032f19d184b5)
01:48:30LloreanBut, it is pseudorandom, so that's a bit unreliable.
01:48:49LloreanI expect the Sansa to work well eventually, but not on a decent timeline. I expect to need at least a new battery for it by then.
01:48:55*amiconn wouldn't like to transfer files back & forth all the time
01:49:04amiconnEven if the transfer itself is fast
01:49:11Lloreanamiconn: Neither would I.
01:49:25 Join SirFunk [0] (
01:49:47amiconnPreparation for using flac was one reason why I upgraded my iriver to 80GB
01:50:15grndslmhow large would a full cd be when ripped to flac?
01:51:03LloreanAnywhere from 250mb to 600mb depending on the content of the CD, though expect higher numbers on average, 450-500 I'd say.
01:51:29LloreanAssuming a full, large CD.
01:51:31grndslmdamn....yea, even with 40 gigs, that's not too many cds
01:51:49LloreanYou should never put your 'permanent' copy on a portable player anyway
01:52:44grndslmyea, i think i like the flac archiving on desktop and making 256k vbr mp3s
01:52:51grndslmmp3s are sooo much more universal
01:53:19grndslmi guess i'll have to just use rockbox when it's more developed for the e280...i just gotta have it
01:54:15amiconnLlorean: why? I do that...
01:54:43grndslmbecause it's a hard drive, and if it's your only copy & you drop it...then you're screwed
01:54:59Lloreanamiconn: You only have on copy of your music, on a portable?
01:55:23LloreanOkay, I rather meant "your sole copy" than your "permanent"
01:55:24*amiconn has several daps so he has several copies :)
01:55:31LloreanI perhaps phrased it badly
01:55:36grndslmyea..sounded weird
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01:56:25 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
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01:57:24perldiveranyone who's still after the gigabeat f40 deal, they are still available on amazon
01:57:34perldivertoday around 4000 units were sold
01:58:00perldiveri think soon we'll have quite an addition to the rockbox users :P
02:05:39Fortewhat is a gigabeat
02:06:13 Part Llorean
02:06:15perldiveran mp3 player?
02:08:03 Join buluca [0] (
02:09:18 Join einyx_ [0] (n=einyx@
02:09:31einyx_anyone have a ipod nano?
02:09:38einyx_pls :(
02:10:17perldivereinyx_ do you have nano 2nd gen by any chance?
02:11:55einyx_perldiver, before the latest
02:12:14einyx_i lost my backup :(
02:12:16 Join pearldiver [0] (
02:12:27einyx_<einyx_> perldiver, before the latest
02:12:27einyx_<einyx_> i lost my backup :(
02:12:38einyx_anyone have this?
02:13:02pearldiverwhat do you mean by "backup" ?
02:13:03 Join TrueJournals [0] (
02:13:48einyx_pearldiver, backup of firmware
02:14:00Forteyou dont need one
02:14:04Forteuse itunes
02:14:06Forteit will fix it
02:14:20einyx_i use linux
02:15:16Fortehow do you boot ipod linux, rockbox, and appleos all on the same
02:15:54 Join toffe82 [0] (
02:16:07pearldivereinyx_ yes, just find an osx or windows machine and restore it with itunes
02:16:42pearldivertoffe82 heh are you still after that chinese "deal" ?
02:17:00toffe82just for fun
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02:19:31toffe82I wan t a X, I hope I will get the broken one on ebay ;)
02:19:47 Quit PaulJam (".")
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02:20:46pearldivertoffe82 tell me about it :P
02:21:04 Quit efyx (Remote closed the connection)
02:21:24toffe82no you are going to bid on it ;)
02:21:41 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
02:22:08toffe82it has a broken display so you need a spare
02:22:18toffe82from a S for example
02:22:28pearldiverno, it was just an expression
02:22:53toffe82but broken display is common on the S
02:23:11toffe82but I have som espare :)
02:27:21 Join perlperl [0] (
02:29:16perlperltoffe82 just keep asking him for pictures i guess
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02:46:05dsheetseinyx_, I have one
02:46:05einyx_dsheets, backup firmware? :P
02:46:05 Join Llorean [0] (n=Llorean@rockbox/administrator/Llorean)
02:46:05dsheetseinyx_, I have, the internal rom, osos, and firmware/bootloader. What do you need?
02:46:05 Quit pearldiver (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:46:05einyx_i have deleted primary partition
02:46:05einyx_what I need?
02:46:05dsheetseinyx_, probably just osos
02:46:05DBUGEnqueued KICK dsheets
02:46:05dsheetsit's about 80MB
02:46:05DBUGEnqueued KICK einyx_
02:46:05einyx_dsheets, query
02:46:05dsheetseinyx_, ?
02:46:05grndslmhow is gigabeat's cross-navigation thingy? is it variable speed like ipods?
02:46:05Lloreangrndslm: It should really just be thought of as 5 buttons, as far as Rockbox is concerned right now
02:46:05LloreanI'd go nuts moving from top to bottom, picking up, and repeating anyway.
02:46:05 Join DerPapst [0] (
02:46:05grndslmif you moved real fast, could scroll from A to L in one swoo, tho...if it were variable speed
02:46:20 Quit safetydan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:46:23grndslm*swoop...damn wireless keyboard
02:46:27LloreanIt'd have to skip a LOT of entries
02:46:33LloreanYou'd lose a rather huge amount of accuracy
02:46:39LloreanPaged scrolling works better for that sort of thing
02:47:31grndslmLlorean: that's why it's variable speed...if you wanted to move down the list slowly, then you just move your finger slowly...the velocity of the finger swipe determines how far in the list you'll advance
02:47:44grndslmjust like the ipod...but the ipod is a circle, which is hard to beat...
02:47:52LloreanI don't like the circle
02:47:57LloreanI like being able to just hold down a button.
02:48:07grndslmbut for huge lists that could take forever
02:48:18grndslmbecause you're forced to see everything you know you could skip over
02:48:24LloreanPaged scrolling, as I said
02:48:37einyx_dsheets, who send me the file?
02:48:57grndslmhmm...I still think I'd rather have a rockboxed ipod
02:49:02LloreanBesides, the precision you can get for variable scrolling is dependent upon the number of sensors you've got and how often you can get data from them.
02:49:15dsheetseinyx_, what??? I'll put the file on the net, one sec
02:49:25grndslmhow is battery life on gigabeat after being rockboxed?
02:49:32LloreanBetter or equal to the original firmware
02:49:48grndslmreally? it doesn't decrease like the ipod's?
02:49:58grndslmor have ipod issues been resolved
02:50:02einyx_dsheets, ok
02:50:05LloreanThe iPod issues are just that: iPod Issues
02:50:09LloreanOr more specifically PortalPlayer issues
02:50:24grndslmyou've lost me...
02:50:27LloreanMost of our players see equivalent or better battery life, with the only real exception being the "PortalPlayer" category
02:50:32LloreanThe chip in the iPods
02:50:34LloreanThe main processor
02:50:44 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
02:50:47LloreanThe H10 and the Sansa also use it
02:50:50LloreanRockbox itself is quite efficient
02:50:56LloreanIt's a hardware issue that is the problem
02:50:56grndslmi would imagine so
02:51:27grndslmso you think gigabeat f 40gb can't be beat, eh?
02:51:42grndslmat least in terms of rockbox
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02:51:52 Part pixelma
02:51:53LloreanI think it can very easily be beat by the H120/140
02:52:08LloreanBut those are harder to come by, and not everyone is willing to sacrifice a color screen for the added bonuses
02:52:27grndslmrockbox doesn't have color?
02:52:53LloreanNo, the H120/140 doesn't have color...
02:54:02 Quit hannesd_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
02:54:37grndslmLlorean: the gigabeat doesn't have a replaceable battery does it?
02:54:43grndslmthat is definitely a must for me
02:54:52grndslmtop of the list in DAP features
02:55:07grndslmi'm not a fan of buying paperweights
02:55:10LloreanAnd yet you want an iPod...
02:55:24grndslmwell, i'd prolly get the iMod, honestly
02:55:46grndslmand I hear the guy that sells 'em pretty much services them for I could just ship it to him and have it replaced
02:55:57LloreanAny battery is replaceable, it's just a question of whether you can purchase replacement and how much work you're willing to do.
02:56:06 Quit einyx_ (".")
02:56:20LloreanHonestly, I'd buy a gigabeat because they're cheap right now, and assume that in two years there's going to be something better enough.
02:56:22grndslmi know i'll be able to buy an ipod battery 3 years from now...dunno about toshiba's mp3 players
02:56:32DerPapstlinuxstb: still there?
02:56:37LloreanOr I'd buy something that uses rechargeable AAs and AAAs so I know that replacement batteries will be available until the end of town
02:56:42Lloreangrndslm: No, you won't necessarily be able to.
02:56:45 Quit roolku ()
02:56:51Lloreangrndslm: You'll be able to buy a battery for the current generation of iPod.
02:57:06grndslmbu not for 4th gen ipods?
02:57:12LloreanYou might, but you've no guarantee
02:57:19grndslmi'm sure sombody's gotta be able to sell 'em somewhere
02:57:36grndslmi'm looking at probabilities here...
02:57:39LloreanThe iPod crowd is big on upgrading. or so has batteries
02:57:43LloreanIt's likely, but not guaranteed.
02:58:08 Join XavierGr [0] (
02:58:49grndslmi'd really love a device that ran on AAs or AAAs, but I don't think any of them will ever run Rockbox
02:59:22LloreanThe Archos Jukebox Recorder v1 runs on rechargeable AAs and runs Rockbox, though it only supports MP3s (and in the future WAV files probably)
02:59:29LloreanIt also uses a 2.5" HD meaning it's very upgradeable.
03:00:25grndslmhmm...i'll have to look into that...i'd prefer something new, tho...doubt they still make that, right?
03:00:38LloreanLong, long old.
03:00:56grndslmi hate DAPs....there's always one thing that just makes it a deal breaker
03:01:10grndslmfor me at least
03:01:28LloreanThat's because you're planning on maintaining the DAP, and they're intended as disposable devices these days
03:02:26grndslmthat's why most of them are deal breakers...exactly
03:02:33dsheetswhat about Cowon (Cowan?) devices?
03:02:44dsheetsiAudio I think they're called
03:02:50grndslmdo any of them have replaceable batteries?
03:03:06grndslmand pref more than 2GB of storage?
03:03:11dsheetsI dunno... but last time I was shopping they looked pretty sweet
03:03:21dsheetsi can't remember specs
03:03:35grndslmthe d2 looks pretty sweet to me, but i don't think i'm looking for a touchscreen....
03:04:28grndslmjust a few buttons, variable scroll (fairly sure e280 does this), user-replaceable battery, & 4gb of storage
03:04:32grndslmis that too much to ask for?
03:05:17LloreanIf the e200 series meets your needs, why don't you choose them?
03:05:44 Join zylche [0] (
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03:06:09zylcheis it normal for the ipod to start beeping and for me to have i/o problems all of a sudden? :þ
03:06:49TrueJournalsI'm going to take a wild guess and say no...
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03:09:45***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:24:28rl_entn e 1 ever had the problem after restoring an ipod video, it prompts to restore it again, and keeps on doing this? i think i have corrupted firmware
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03:25:03 Join l2eM1x [0] (
03:25:18 Join Soap2 [0] (
03:25:30rl_enttrying to install rockbox but i i get an error while trying to move the firmware image
03:25:47l2eM1xwhats the error
03:27:38rl_ent"error reading from disk; data error (cyclinic redundancy check).−−−−:no error−−-[ERR] Image movement failed.−−−−−−[ERR]install failed
03:27:48l2eM1xthat is weird
03:27:52l2eM1xhave you searched?
03:28:02l2eM1xyour error
03:28:19rl_entyeah ive been on apple support all day
03:28:26rl_entupdated itunes
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03:28:34l2eM1xisnt this a rockbox error?
03:28:42rl_entbut my guess is
03:28:45LloreanCRC errors often mean a bad cable.
03:28:48rl_entcorrupted firmware
03:28:56l2eM1xwell there ya go
03:29:07l2eM1xim glad I could be completely useless
03:29:09l2eM1x:) haha
03:29:30rl_entima get another. b bak n a min
03:30:13l2eM1xdoes anyone know why my wps would make my ipod sluggish?
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03:37:49rl_entused another cable and still same error. when its moving the images to create room for the new one, (ROCKBOX), doesnt it need a functional apple firmware to mold with rockbox to be able to dual boot?
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03:53:53oblibHi, I'm trying to update the speex codec and get the following error: make[2]: *** No rule to make target `speex/speex_bits.h', needed by `/home/mythtv/sources/rockbox/rockbox/build/apps/codecs/speex.o'. Stop.
03:54:03oblibI don't know much about makefiles and how they work, can someone help me?
03:54:28 Part TrueJournals
03:57:12GuardianHeadDo you guys have any suggestions how to contact Mikachu, AKA
04:00:44GuardianHeadWow, nobody here?
04:02:13AloneaI don't know how to contact him
04:02:29GuardianHeadgoogle just gave me his email, so I'm good :)
04:03:40perlperlJdGordon here?
04:03:40Aloneathat works
04:05:22 Join TrueJournals [0] (
04:06:30oblibnm, I think I got it
04:06:58perlperlwas JdGordon's customizable icons patch committed?
04:09:08TrueJournalsSpeaking of that patch, I'm having a bit of trouble with it... but I think it might be related to other patches I have applied (I don't have time right now to test)
04:09:31TrueJournalsWhen I apply a new icon set I get a data abort error... I'm using a H10
04:11:03perlperlTrueJournals i cant even patch the clean source with it now
04:11:30perlperllist.c errors
04:11:54 Nick perlperl is now known as pearldiver (
04:11:56TrueJournalsI got one error for list.c and when I looked at the source, it turned out that the change had already been made
04:13:07TrueJournalsI also got an error for viewers.config... I just replaced the file with the rejects file
04:13:21JdGordonpearldiver: hey, not yet
04:13:33pearldiverthe artist himself :P
04:13:52 Join bawb2 [0] (
04:13:54pearldiverso yeah, list.c and viewers.config errors
04:14:28JdGordonwhats the error with viewers.config?
04:14:59 Quit DarkRedFlame (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
04:15:18TrueJournalsJdGordon: For me, it just turned out that it couldn't replace the file... maybe one of my other patches was the problem. Might be better to ask pearldiver about that... I'm going to try to apply to a clean SVN right now...
04:15:24pearldiverFAILED at #1 :P
04:16:40JdGordonoh, does it make sense to assume that all icons are square? so loading a 16pixel wide bmp will autmatically guess the hieght is 16?
04:17:16TrueJournalsJdGordon: Couldn't you divide the height by 32 (the number of icons) to find out what the height is?
04:17:47JdGordonno, because the number of icons isnt constant
04:17:54TrueJournalsThat's what I figured
04:18:02JdGordonthe viewer icons are all there also and could be as many as 16 extra icons
04:18:27TrueJournalsyeah... didn't think about that
04:19:05TrueJournalsI think it's a bit dangerous to assume it's square though because the default is 6x8
04:20:38JdGordonits better than trying to find the setting when you load a 16x16 iconsset after a 8x8
04:20:51JdGordonnoone is going to make a custom 6x8... its too small
04:21:32TrueJournalsJdGordon: When applying the patch on a clean SVN, I first get a viewers.config error that hunk #1 failed, then I get a prompt for list.c that a reversed (or previously applied) patch detected
04:22:11TrueJournalsThe first hunk from list.c seems to be unneeded because the change from 1 to 2 seems to already be in the source
04:22:14JdGordonok, ignore tlist.c
04:22:21TrueJournalsI don't know what's wrong with viewers.config
04:22:21JdGordonmy local tree hasnt been svn uped for a while
04:24:13TrueJournalsAh... the problem with viewers.config is that support for the .mpeg extension has been added
04:29:27 Quit rl_ent ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
04:29:46TrueJournalsJdGordon: Here's what I'd do about size: If being defined by a theme, let them put in the icon size (or use a square default), in case theme makers want to use the default set, but in white... otherwise, assume square
04:36:00TrueJournalsYeah, even with clean SVN, I get the error: Data abort at 00028BD4 when trying to apply an iconset
04:36:06TrueJournalsunfortunately, I have to go
04:37:01 Part TrueJournals
04:40:59 Part l2eM1x
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05:00:47CtcpIgnored 2 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
05:00:47*JdGordon wishes he had $200 to buy one of the cheap gigabeats..
05:01:04JdGordonthese 16x16 icons look great, but the h300 screen just isnt big enough :p
05:04:34pearldiverits $90 :P
05:04:38pearldiveras of today
05:05:08midgeyor $100 if you're looking to use amazon
05:06:54JdGordonAUD$200 almost
05:06:59JdGordontaking into account postage cost">
05:09:20JdGordoncheck out the screenshots in there
05:09:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:11:22*midgey whistles approvingly
05:11:55JdGordonnot my icons, but how do they they look!
05:12:23pearldiverJdGordon yes i really wanted to install them today!
05:12:39pearldiverbut your patch doesnt work :)
05:12:59JdGordonwhat target?
05:13:01midgeyJdGordon: they look nice
05:13:15midgeymaybe some possible copyright issues, but nice
05:13:37pearldiverJdGordon, like i said, at the patching stage
05:13:58pearldiverlist.c and viewers.config errors
05:14:41JdGordonpearldiver: na, there is more changes done this morning... so either wait till i have lunch, or ill build for you
05:15:19pearldiverJdGordon ah i see
05:16:49 Join Bawitdaba [0] (
05:17:15JdGordonhmm.. no mention of the icons patch over night.. guess it wont be in svn till sunday then
05:18:02 Join Hammer [0] (
05:20:07midgeyJdGordon: i've been a bit busy so I haven't had a chance to look at the code, but its a feature I'd like to see (esp. on color targets)
05:21:16pearldiveroh invadrox crashes the player
05:21:20pearldiveri wonder since when
05:21:44 Nick Hammer is now known as Hammer89 (
05:23:28Hammer89Hi... I was looking at the recent SVN activity... and I noticed that someone said "Users with bootloaders older than 20 March 2007 will have to update." How do I know if my bootloader is up-to-date or not?
05:24:55 Join webguest29 [0] (i=488348d7@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
05:25:08GuardianHeadJust update it anyway to be safe?
05:25:58Hammer89Hmmm... how would I go about doing that? I'm extremely new to this... and horrified at the thought of bricking my player (a Sansa e250)
05:26:28GuardianHeadDon't you already have rockbox on it?
05:27:06Hammer89Yes... but I used an installer made by someone else. Also, it boots the original firmware by default, and not rockbox
05:28:01 Join l2eM1x [0] (
05:28:14l2eM1xanybody with an ipod willing to test a theme for me?
05:31:11 Quit webguest29 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
05:34:54GuardianHeadHammer89 I dunno how to do it on yours, I have an ipod nano
05:34:59GuardianHeadl2eM1x if you tell me how, I can
05:35:12l2eM1xits pretty simple
05:35:20l2eM1xhave you ever used a theme before?
05:35:49 Join FOAD_ [0] (
05:35:50GuardianHeadand I have a nano, not a 'normal' ipod
05:36:02l2eM1xthanks man but I dont think it will work
05:36:03l2eM1xon a nan
05:36:22l2eM1xthanks though
05:37:12pearldiverl2eM1x i dont have an ipod but wouldnt mind to see a screen cap :P
05:37:14 Join aliask [0] (
05:37:17Hammer89Hmmm... Okay. Guess I'll have to try asking on here again some other time. :) Thanks anyway!
05:37:55pearldiveryou should really start with reading the manual
05:38:11Hammer89I did...
05:38:20l2eM1xpearldiver ill have one up in a minute
05:38:52pearldiverHammer89 ok, what anything puzzles you most about it?
05:40:02 Quit rotator ()
05:41:50Hammer891) I'm not sure if my bootloader is up-to-date (in this case: newer than March, 20th, 2007
05:41:50Hammer892) I'm not entirely clear on how to install the new bootloader... particularly in keeping it so the original firmware boots by default
05:42:30pearldiverl2eM1x ha
05:43:12pearldiverHammer89 this page is really useful:
05:43:23l2eM1xpearldiver that isnt much help lol
05:43:30l2eM1xis that a "Its terrible"
05:43:38pearldiverl2eM1x now your theme :P
05:44:26pearldiveri would make maybe 2 versions: one with a guitar (i would use a different model/brand though) and one with a synth :P
05:45:02l2eM1xthe guitar looks bad?
05:45:36 Quit Rincewind (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:45:44pearldiverhold on, ill show you what i would put
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05:47:11Hammer89Hmmmmm.... okay. So just run sansapatcher.exe and it's done?
05:47:51 Join IPOD80GB55G [0] (
05:48:01IPOD80GB55GHi, I don't work with rockbox.
05:48:27l2eM1xits a good pic
05:48:39l2eM1xwhat part would you put in there
05:48:51l2eM1xthe body or the neck
05:49:02l2eM1xyou cant put the whole picture it will look terrible shrunk
05:49:17pearldiverbody mostly, little of the neck
05:49:24pearldiverjust play around with it
05:49:29l2eM1xcan I have permission to write on the wiki?
05:49:42l2eM1xalright Ill put a few versions out there
05:49:45l2eM1xi like the orange one
05:50:29pearldiverHammer89 pretty much
05:51:07l2eM1xpearl do you like the way its set up −− with the wps centered? i think its different
05:51:52 Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
05:52:01pearldiverl2eM1x yes i like the idea
05:52:32Hammer89if the bootloader doesn't install properly... am I going to have to use the recovery mode? or will it just boot to the original firmware?
05:53:41 Quit dsheets (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:53:48l2eM1xawesome thanks pearldiver
05:55:00pearldiverl2eM1x not much info on the screen though
05:55:06pearldiverbut i think some people like that
05:55:11l2eM1xyeah I like that
05:55:14l2eM1xi dont know
05:55:21pearldiveri like the clock at least :P
05:55:30Hammer89Okay... the error codes would be displayed on the sansapatcher program? *feels so ignorant*
05:56:24pearldiverHammer89 on the player itself
05:57:39l2eM1xcould any admins give me access to the wiki
05:58:54 Nick scorche` is now known as scorche (i=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
05:59:02aliaskl2eM1x: What's your wiki name?
05:59:17aliaskGive me a tic
05:59:28l2eM1xim sorry I dont know what that means
05:59:32Hammer89Pearldiver: and if I get an error... I'll have to use the recovery mode?
06:00:04aliaskl2eM1x: It just means 'a short time'
06:00:12l2eM1xoh thanks :)
06:00:25l2eM1xenglish is my only language but I never heard that before
06:00:52aliaskWell, it should be done
06:01:04l2eM1xit worked
06:01:10aliaskNo worries
06:02:05pearldiverHammer89 depends on the error :P
06:02:26Hammer89Ah... does it usually not work the first time? :P
06:02:39 Join dsheets [0] (n=dsheets@EASTCAMPUS-ONE-O-THREE-HUNDRED-SIXTY.MIT.EDU)
06:02:58pearldiverif you follow the manual it should work
06:03:34Hammer89alright.... all the manual says is to run sansapatcher.exe, type "i," press enter... and that's it?
06:03:50pearldiveranother useful page
06:05:07l2eM1xis the font snap in the font package?
06:05:11pearldiveri guess now you have to figure out if your rockbox installation was done before the sansapatcher
06:06:35Hammer89when was sansapatcher released?
06:07:20pearldiverage: 2 weeks - Bump version to 0.2 with new bootloader
06:08:12Hammer89I'm not sure I'm following... it was released 2 weeks ago?
06:08:12pearldiverabout 4 weeks or so the initital version i think
06:08:28pearldiveryes, 2 weeks ago, the newer version
06:09:32Hammer89okay... and it wont work right if the currently installed bootloader is older than that?
06:10:18l2eM1xaliask: i think i did something wrong
06:10:48l2eM1xokay i fixed it
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06:13:44pearldiverHammer89 yes it will show you the message mentioned on that page
06:13:55 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
06:13:57pearldiverand in that case you would have to restore the original firmware 1st
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06:16:02Hammer89is rockbox.e200 the bootloader file?
06:16:07 Quit ptw419 ()
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06:25:09pearldiverHammer89 no
06:25:35Hammer89yeah... I just realized how dumb a question that was :P
06:26:20sslasheshey - anyone involved with SoC around?
06:26:27pearldiverit's a so called "firmware" file
06:28:24Hammer89what's the filename?
06:28:41l2eM1xgot my stuff updated to the wiki
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06:35:58aliaskJdGordon: I'm not sure if something's up with my build, but that iconset patch of yours doesn't seem to work properly for me
06:36:41JdGordononly a few icons are shown?
06:37:02JdGordonyeah, there is a silly bug in icon.c
06:37:27aliaskEasy fix?
06:37:46JdGordonin screen_put_iconxy comment out everything after icon == Icon_NOICON in the if
06:38:56aliaskSo the if just has the two qualifiers?
06:40:02aliaskLet's give this a whirl
06:40:08JdGordonits an extra anity check, ive fixed it here, but its not really needed
06:40:32aliaskI'm also about halfway through making a icon set from the Tango icon library (I think they look nicer than eli's :P)
06:41:14pearldiveraliask oh wow
06:41:39pearldiveri had this idea today
06:41:46aliaskJdGordon: Great job on the patch by the way
06:42:17aliaskpearldiver: They're nice icons, I've wanted to do it for aaages
06:43:44JdGordonill put a new synced patch up in a few min
06:44:02aliaskOk, it's much better now (all icons are loaded) but they're too close together
06:44:12aliaskVertical spacing is still 8px
06:44:31sslashesanyone know if the wiki is even remotely accurate (for instance -
06:44:41sslashesand by accurate i mean "up to date"
06:44:49JdGordonaliask: you need to manually set the icon height in the lcd settings
06:44:58JdGordonand make sure the font is at least as high as the icons...
06:46:11aliaskJdGordon: Better still, but now the icons overlap the first character of the text in the menus :P">
06:51:30aliaskI'll try repatching.
06:52:09Hammer89will running the SanDisk firmware updater completely over-write the rockbox installation? Or is that not recommended...?
06:52:25JdGordonAAWWW.. FUCK! i overwrote the charcell changes :'(
06:52:47JdGordonsslashes: the wiki shold be fairly up to date
06:56:23LloreanHammer89: Those aren't the only two cases. Yes it will over-write Rockbox installation, but yes that's the recommended method of updating if you feel you need to update. You'll have to reinstall Rockbox afterward.
06:57:20pearldiverJdGordon will you update it now?
06:57:40Hammer89Hmmm... so if I have an old bootloader... would the best way to update be to run the SanDisk firmware updater... and then sansapatcher.exe?
06:57:58JdGordonpearldiver: in a min, a bit more minor tweakin
06:58:07LloreanIt's a fairly easy way to update, as long as Sandisk's new firmware version doesn't change the layout of the firmware partition.
06:58:16l2eM1xmaybe you guys will appreciate this - >
06:58:20pearldiverJdGordon thanks :P
06:58:32Hammer89Llorean: is there an easy way to find that out?
06:59:14LloreanHammer89: I believe the only version that doesn't work is the beta version that Sandisk took down anyway.
06:59:41LloreanHammer89: But the safest thing to do is update to the newest version shown at Daniel Stenberg's site, then sansapatcher, and don't worry about newer versions.
07:00:09JdGordon:) ive got auto-eight-guestimation working properly also
07:00:13Hammer89one other thing... is there a way to check what bootloader I have installed? i.e. how old it is, version, etc
07:01:25Hammer89I'm not familiar with his site (at least I don't think I am...) could I have the link?
07:01:56LloreanHammer89: Your bootloader reports the version number. If your bootloader isn't displaying any text (if it's the one installed with Sansapatcher) you can hold Left to load the original firmware, and while it's doing that read what it says.
07:02:29Hammer89it always boots too fast for me to read :P
07:03:07LloreanHammer89: Boot it multiple times and get one digit per boot.
07:03:18 Quit joa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
07:04:08Hammer89that sounds fun...
07:04:43Hammer89why is it safer to update using that site than to use SanDisk's updater?
07:05:05l2eM1xits just the mi4
07:05:06LloreanBecause the versions on that site are known to work, while Sandisk could release a new version we know nothing about?
07:05:16Hammer89Ah, duh
07:05:39LloreanSandisk can change the in-flash bootloader at any point to change what they expect in the firmware partition, and then we'd have to rewrite the install process (or tell people to downgrade)
07:07:24Hammer89Out of curiosity... what *would* happen if you were to format the 16MB recovery drive?
07:07:37l2eM1xyou cant go into safe mode
07:07:44l2eM1xand resotore original firmware
07:07:46l2eM1xin case you error
07:07:59Hammer89so you wouldn't be able to access the recovery mode at all?
07:08:11l2eM1xit will something along the lines "Error loading image"
07:08:13l2eM1xor something
07:08:23l2eM1xin general its a bad idea
07:08:32Hammer89haha... sounds like it ;)
07:08:44l2eM1xyeah stick away from that sucker :)
07:09:03Hammer89so I just drop the mi4 file into the 16mb recovery drive?
07:09:14l2eM1xput your sansa in msc mode
07:09:16JdGordonaliask: pearldiver, new verison online
07:09:21l2eM1xand just drag it into the root
07:09:26l2eM1xso if your sansa is G:\
07:09:29l2eM1xput it right on G:\
07:09:31pearldiverJdGordon great
07:09:36JdGordonon fs...
07:09:41l2eM1xand shut your e2xx off
07:09:43Hammer89that sounds simple enough
07:09:49l2eM1xit really is
07:09:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
07:09:53l2eM1xthe first time you are nervous
07:09:57l2eM1xbut do it right the first time
07:10:08l2eM1xdont ever touch the 16mb drive
07:10:39Hammer89which file is the one I want on the site Llorean posted?
07:10:56l2eM1xwhere do you live?
07:11:00l2eM1xwhat country
07:11:18l2eM1xand your trying to update?
07:11:31l2eM1xif your trying to update yes
07:11:36l2eM1xdont touch bl.rom
07:11:42l2eM1xyou shouldnt ever need a new bootloader
07:11:48Hammer89I'm trying to remove the rockbox bootloader... so I have the original
07:11:48l2eM1xand if you do be sure you know what your doing
07:11:50sslashesanyone know what file screen size definitions are in?
07:12:02Lloreanbl.rom has nothing to do with the Rockbox bootloader
07:12:13Lloreanbl.rom is in-flash and not the area we deal with.
07:12:15l2eM1xrockbox loads in the flash no?
07:12:21l2eM1xok nvm
07:12:23LloreanSorry, in-ROM
07:12:28LloreanThe Sansa's all-flash
07:12:37l2eM1xmade me double take
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07:12:54LloreanYou never, EVER replace the bl.rom unless you've got someone else telling you that you need it, and you can blame them for it.
07:13:12LloreanThe .mi4, when firmware upgraded, will remove the rockbox bootloader
07:13:13l2eM1xyeah that will brick your player
07:14:11Hammer89so... I get the .m14 file, place it in the root, and restart the player?
07:14:21l2eM1xmi4 and yes pop it in the root
07:14:28l2eM1xnothing bad can happen if you do it that way
07:14:34l2eM1xjust dont touch any bootloaders
07:14:38l2eM1xor format that silly drive
07:14:40l2eM1xhide that drive
07:15:02Hammer89does anyone have a direct link to the .mi4 file I need? Just so I can't mess anything up :P
07:15:05LloreanHammer89: Reboot into the official firmware.
07:15:11LloreanHammer89: If you just stay in Rockbox the update will never happen.
07:15:19LloreanHammer89: And any of the US MI4 files are fine.
07:15:24l2eM1xHammer didnt we discuss which file to use?
07:15:29l2eM1xjust use the .15
07:15:36l2eM1x1.02.15a i think
07:15:49Hammer89this one?
07:15:56l2eM1xyes i believe that was it
07:16:36l2eM1xLlorean does IRC have something that types the person your talking to's username
07:16:45l2eM1xlike Hammer89:
07:16:56pearldiverJdGordon pretty much breaks all my other patches :P
07:16:58 Quit Galois (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable))
07:17:18JdGordonpearldiver: really? it doesnt effect _that_ many files
07:18:04pearldiveralbum art and dict are goners for sure
07:19:04Hammer89should there be a 1.02.15a.mi4 file in my root regardless of whether or not I have rockbox installed?
07:19:29n17ikh|Lappyso my new (updated) rockbox for the H10 20gb has a rockbox.mi4 instead of a rockbox.h10, looks like binary formats got migrated
07:19:35n17ikh|Lappydoes this entail a bootloader upgrade?
07:19:36JdGordonAA was gone because of wps tokeiser...
07:19:48JdGordonand isnt dict a plugin?
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07:20:19Llorean|ReM1x: Yes, but it depends on your client. Type the first few letters and hit tab, usually. Your name screws it up because it has a | in it.
07:20:28LloreanEr |2eM1x:, rather
07:20:42l2eM1xoh alright thanks
07:20:47l2eM1xremix is fine :P
07:21:09Lloreann17ikh|Lappy: If your bootloader is older than March 20, yes.
07:21:46LloreanHammer89: It should be named PP5022.MI4, and you can delete it after it updates (Rockbox won't load any more, at all) if it's not removed for you
07:21:48pearldiverJdGordon AA was updated just recently
07:21:50LloreanIt should be removed for you, I thnk
07:21:59pearldiverJdGordon and theres a new version of dict
07:22:07pearldiverexists as a patch for now
07:22:12n17ikh|LappyI'm not sure if it is or not
07:22:17n17ikh|LappyI'll upgrade just to be safe..
07:22:20Hammer89I might have a little problem
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07:22:35n17ikh|Lappywhen I upgrade, I should just be able to overwrite the old .rockbox directory with no problems, right?
07:22:43n17ikh|LappyI should probably wipe out the non-used rockbox.h10 though...
07:22:53Hammer89Llorean: the PP5022.MI4 file should be in my root?
07:22:59l2eM1xyes hammer
07:23:01LloreanHammer89: You should put it in your root.
07:23:08LloreanHammer89: It should be the file you downloaded.
07:23:18l2eM1xhammer it really is pretty simple
07:23:29Lloreann17ikh|Lappy: Yes
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07:23:41n17ikh|Lappyhm... What's nvram.bin contain? the nvram contents? What's rockbox doing with that beastie?
07:23:42Hammer89I know... but I had a file mysteriously appear, or change names... and I have no idea what it is
07:23:49l2eM1xwhats the name
07:24:01Hammer89like an exponent
07:24:04l2eM1xsuperscript 3?
07:24:07l2eM1xwhat the hell?
07:24:15Hammer89I have no idea
07:24:24l2eM1xjust download that file and put it on your sansa
07:24:27l2eM1xits really easy
07:24:50Hammer89I just wish I knew what that file was :P
07:25:03Lloreann17ikh|Lappy: Certain values that are preserved across boot are stored there rather than the .cfg file, because they wouldn't be human readable anyway.
07:25:48l2eM1xHammer89: its the mi4
07:25:52l2eM1xdelete that 3
07:26:03l2eM1xand redownload or place the mi4 on there
07:26:04Hammer89before or after I put the new one in?
07:26:14l2eM1xit doesnt matter
07:26:20l2eM1xhere I will write it out step by step
07:26:48pearldiverJdGordon let me double check the svn, make its not clean enough
07:26:54l2eM1x1.Download .mi4
07:26:54l2eM1x2.Place ONLY the .mi4 in the root of your sansa
07:26:54l2eM1x3.Unplug sansa
07:26:56l2eM1xthats it
07:26:58l2eM1xplease just do it lol
07:27:01pearldiverJdGordon im getting no love here
07:27:11Hammer89haha... okay
07:28:29l2eM1xhows it looking
07:28:44Hammer89should it have said it was updating the firmware?
07:29:30l2eM1xit didnt?
07:29:33Hammer89it didnt :P
07:29:36LloreanHammer89: Did you reboot into the original Firmware?
07:29:38l2eM1xokay whats the filename
07:29:48Hammer89which file? the one I put in?
07:29:52l2eM1xLlorean: I think he may need to rename the file depending on his older version
07:29:53Hammer89Llorean: yes, I did
07:30:02l2eM1xto pp2205 or whatever that is
07:30:08LloreanPP5022.MI4, as I said.
07:30:11l2eM1xwhat is your current firmware virsion
07:30:16JdGordonpearldiver: whats the problem?
07:30:16l2eM1xdid you do that hammer?
07:30:16 Part Llorean
07:30:27Hammer89rename what to what...?
07:30:37l2eM1xokay plug your sansa back in
07:30:40Hammer89it is
07:30:45l2eM1xopen up the root
07:30:48l2eM1xthe files still there?
07:31:03l2eM1xwhat is it called
07:31:18Hammer89what is what called...?
07:31:42l2eM1xthe file
07:31:53zylcheTHE file.
07:31:53Hammer89which one?
07:32:04l2eM1xthe one file you downloaded
07:32:35l2eM1xrename it to this
07:32:49zylcheRemember the Pi symbol!
07:33:04zylcheI was being serious.
07:34:01Hammer89maybe it has to do with the fact that I haven't had sleep for the past 20 hours... but I am *not* understanding :P
07:34:16l2eM1xyeah maybe you should sleep
07:34:48Hammer89I'd like to get this done first, though :P
07:34:57l2eM1xokay well rename the file and be done!
07:35:08Hammer89so the Pi thing was a joke? :P
07:35:23Hammer89and then restart?
07:35:36zylcheI haven't slept for the past 20 hours either.
07:35:39l2eM1x"Updating firmware"
07:35:44l2eM1xi havent slept in 21 hours
07:35:48zylcheGo yell at someone who isn't doing what you're doing.
07:36:00l2eM1xi was just trying to top you heh
07:36:03zylche0635 here, woke up at 0930 yesterday.
07:36:13l2eM1xi slept 14 hours ago
07:36:16l2eM1xso uh
07:36:30Hammer89it's updating
07:36:34l2eM1xI am a terrible human
07:36:41l2eM1xafter all this trouble you better damn well get some sleep
07:36:47l2eM1xand give me a kiss for putting up with you
07:37:01Hammer89worked :)
07:37:14pearldiverJdGordon all good now
07:37:20l2eM1xthere you go
07:37:23l2eM1xwrite my check to:
07:39:07 Join EbErT [0] (
07:39:31Hammer89alright... ONE more question
07:39:37Hammer89j/k ;)
07:39:40l2eM1xok nvm
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07:39:44l2eM1xkill yourself.
07:40:03Hammer89thanks a ton for the help... sorry I'm so dense
07:40:08l2eM1xits cool
07:40:09l2eM1xgo sleep
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07:40:43l2eM1xim out too
07:40:46l2eM1xeverybody miss me
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07:41:14zylcheOh what a pity. Nevermind.
07:43:21pearldiverJdGordon AA is good as well
07:43:34pearldiveri narrowed it down to just dict patch
07:48:41*JdGordon hopes rasher can fix up to handle the icons when its commited
07:50:52pearldiverit looks really "wrong" on the screen now
07:51:33kkurbjunHas anyone dumped the contents of the nand flash on the gigabeat F/X?
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07:54:30*pearldiver investigates further
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07:56:49Lloreankkurbjun: You may want to contact
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07:59:09pearldiverJdGordon ah good now
07:59:40pearldiverJdGordon so right now only way to load them is to run theme.cfg?
08:00:14kkurbjunLlorean, thanks for the pointer
08:03:08Lloreankkurbjun: I'm assuming he's dumped it or at least come up with a method to read it, if he's modified it. :)
08:03:48JdGordonpearldiver: its in the context menu for .bmp's
08:07:14pearldiverJdGordon eli's icons look great
08:07:36pearldiverreally make the whole thing fun to browse through :P
08:07:48pearldiverJdGordon thanks for this
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08:11:42pearldiverJdGordon btw, context menus
08:13:29pearldiverare they suppose to be displayed differently?
08:13:40pearldivercause i see no changes in the way the menus are displayed
08:13:52JdGordonhow do you mean?
08:14:43pearldiverah got it
08:14:49pearldiverits late here :P
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08:16:52*amiconn doesn't fully understand JdGordon's patch
08:17:15 Quit petur ("here today, gone tomorrow")
08:17:34pearldiveramigan took me a few here :P
08:17:48pearldiverbut at the end, its amazing
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08:19:51*amiconn doesn't see how this is 'amazing' but then he doesn't care that much about looks
08:20:08amiconnFor some strange reason many people seem to care about looks
08:20:18amiconnI care more about functionality
08:20:20hcsbecause they can see?
08:20:23pearldiveri dont really care as well
08:20:47pearldiverbut these little icons really help
08:20:50amiconnBut my remark was related to how the patch does things, not what it does
08:21:05Lloreanhcs: Yes, but how much time do you really spend looking at the screen, percentage wise?
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08:22:31JdGordonamiconn: whats the problem?
08:22:54JdGordonfor charcell gui/icon.c isnt compiled, only player/icons.c
08:23:21 Part norbusan
08:24:25amiconn(1) Why 3 different functions to draw an icon? I would expect screen_put_iconxy() to be enough
08:24:48hcsLlorean: true, just being irritating, though the point remains that a nice looking system with limited functionality tends to "beat out" more advanced systems that don't look as good; looks are used for far more of the evaluation than is rational
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08:24:57amiconn(2) Why not put the icon width and height in the screen structure? The number of lines is already there
08:25:26Lloreanhcs: Yeah, but that doesn't mean we should put a preference on looks at any point. Since we're not selling the system, we don't have to pander to evaluations, just what we as a group need from it. :)
08:26:07amiconn(3) The remark in apps/player/icons.c. This looks to me like charcell currently doesn't display any icons....
08:26:38hcsLlorean: agreed. just trying to put my otherwise useless Psychology minor to work
08:27:16amiconnI would expect the mapping icon index->character happening somewhere
08:27:41JdGordonamiconn: 1) it starting with 2 because we needed to keep the code simple in list.c, but keyboard.c needs to draw to a pixel co-ord, the third one was because list.c went funny... 2) icons arnt loaded by the screen_access code, so putting it in that struct isnt so simple. 3) unless have put the wrong version of player/icons.c in the mapping happens there
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08:30:25scorcheSoap_ Soap2: SYN
08:30:38JdGordonamiconn: the icons array in player/icons.c does the mapping
08:31:18amiconnWith just [Icon_Language] = , etc??
08:31:47JdGordonwell, I have done it so the icons it was displaying before are displayed, and noting yet for the others
08:32:11amiconnThere are no values for any icon...
08:32:40zylche32x32, 64x64
08:32:46JdGordonwhich patch dd you get?
08:33:51JdGordonfrom which comment?
08:34:07amiconnAlso, does this patch mean the icons for viewers are now built into the binary?
08:34:21amiconn(the default ones that is)
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08:35:18JdGordonthat link was for aliask before, forgot to remove it
08:35:50amiconnThat's not good imho. I thought we wanted to put the dynamic icons in a .bmp
08:36:08JdGordonthat would have been better, but it makes it so much more complex
08:36:58JdGordonbecause we need NB_SCREENS more buffers for that bmp, then need to figure out a way to know if we are loading a viewer bmp or the main icons bmp, then put it in the right buffer
08:37:12JdGordonthen finally display the right one (which is easier ..)
08:37:32JdGordonof course, if we could do this, we wouldnt need to worry about the icon height setting which is annoying
08:38:20amiconnI wondered about that setting
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08:39:10JdGordonneeded because the number of icons isnt know, so we can simply do hieght/count
08:39:15*JdGordon back soon
08:39:30amiconnOn a related note, do you have some binsize figures?
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08:41:46amiconnJdGordon: The number of icons could be specified as part of the .bmp file name
08:42:22 Part kaaloo
08:42:43amiconn(or perhaps it's better to specify the icon resolution there)
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08:50:05SliMMnow here's a little spam:
08:50:11SliMMwhat can be improved?
08:51:59SliMMcan i edit my comments, because there are some ugly typos
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08:56:20 Quit moos ("Glory to Rockbox")
08:57:01amiconnJdGordon: I also think the various bmps for theming should only be loadable from .cfg, i.e. no extra items in the context menu.
08:57:40amiconnOtherwise, with more and more themable bitmaps coming, it will become awfully cluttered and confusing to the user
08:57:41LloreanI agree that icons shouldn't have a context menu entry.
08:58:11JdGordonamiconn: bin size depends on the target of course, charcell was 200bytes or something (probably because of the extra strings more than anything), 1300 on h300, 1100 on ondiosp
08:58:16amiconnwps bitmaps can also only be specified in a .wps file (even the wps backdrop) so I see no problem
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08:58:46JdGordonok, so if those are removed there is a fair bit of code that can be stripped
08:59:27amiconnAnd I would really like to see the fixed and dynamic icons split in 2 bitmaps, loading the default dynamic icons always from bmp
08:59:53JdGordonI agree...
09:00:00amiconnIf they're missing, then there won't be icons for dynamic types
09:00:48JdGordoni cant chat anymore tonight, ill be back on tomorow night, ill check the logs anyway...
09:01:03amiconnFor dynamic icons on charcell, needs to learn some extra magic (provided we put the dynamic icons for charcell where those for bitmap were before)
09:01:33amiconnPerhaps you have another, better idea...
09:02:44 Quit Llorean ("Leaving.")
09:03:30amiconnCould in fact also be a bmp strip. Would require a (limited) bmp loader on the player.
09:04:00*amiconn likes that idea more
09:04:15amiconnMore similarity between targets, which is good
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09:12:58pondlifeLinusN: Good morning
09:13:22pondlifeDid you get time to post me a package yet?
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09:13:54*petur waits for ender` to quit :p
09:14:09ender`you'll be waiting for a while then :)
09:14:23LinusNpondlife: no, but i will have time today though....
09:14:47*ender` just spent 30 mniutes figuring out why his keyboard wouldn't work except for a brief moment during bootup
09:14:54pondlifeLinusN: Thanks
09:14:59ender`turned out that an USB hub must have hung or somethnig
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09:15:49 Part B4gder
09:16:10ender`hm, i need to restart :(
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09:17:06pondlifepetur: There you are
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09:20:05*petur waves
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09:20:39*Bagder_ curses stupid company proxies
09:20:43 Nick Bagder_ is now known as B4gder (i=dast@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
09:21:24*B4gder sallutes corkscrew and sshd on port 443
09:21:25*petur agrees with B4gder
09:22:58B4gderthis company even blocks corkscrew's home page ;-)
09:24:13B4gderbut then they also block my page!
09:24:38Zagorsounds like they have a whitelist rather than a blacklist
09:24:47Zagorweird place
09:24:50B4gderI think they have some content-checking or so
09:24:59Zagortext/html = bad :)
09:25:03B4gderlike triggering on some bad words or something
09:25:08B4gderlike I can see the rockbox front page
09:25:12B4gderbut not the forum index page
09:25:21Zagorwell forum is a different host
09:25:43B4gderwell, until I changed to run my own proxy through my corkscrew-tunnel that is B-]
09:26:05B4gderZagor: sure, but i doubt they whitelist
09:28:16B4gderbut they need to fight harder to keep me locked in ;-O
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09:40:49GodEaterB4gder: I didn't even do that - I used ssh to set up a tun0 device at each end, and then changed my default route to go through that
09:41:24GodEateronly needs one iptables rule at the other end to do NAT, and away I go.
09:41:39B4gderyeah, but then you need to fiddle with the other end more
09:41:55GodEaterno fiddling required
09:42:04B4gder"one iptables rule at the other end to do NAT"
09:42:14GodEaterwhich you only ever have to set up once :)
09:42:18B4gderwe're several guys doing the same stunt here
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09:42:32B4gderplus that we move around a lot
09:42:43B4gderbut sure, sounds like a nice approach
09:43:40GodEaterI had to work out how to do it myself too - which I find unusual - there was nothing on google about using sshd to do what I like to call "Reverse VPN"
09:43:53GodEaterplenty about how to use it to access a private network from a public one
09:43:58GodEaterbut not the other way round
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09:45:15GodEaterit also means that the connection is two way - like, if I get home and remember something I want from my work PC - I can use the network pipe it's created to access my work PC
09:45:22GodEatereven though the connection was initiated at the other end
09:45:50B4gderyeah, but also a bit on the open side
09:46:18B4gderlike you've opened a back door to people to hammer your work network
09:46:23GodEaterit's still protected by the firewall at my router
09:46:47GodEaterbut technically yes you're right
09:47:14 Join Llorean [0] (
09:47:20GodEateralthough there are no routing rules set up at home to access the work network
09:47:41GodEaterahem - anyway - that's enough off topic talk :)
09:47:56GodEatermy conscience is starting to get itchy
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09:48:19B4gderwe do it to reach the rockbox community, which makes it on-topic! ;-P
09:48:25GodEaterhehehe - I guess
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10:04:36scorcheGodEater: people involved in the project get a bit more leeway ;)
10:05:34*GodEater wonders if scorche means him or B4gder
10:06:02scorchewell, i consider you "involved" at this point
10:06:39*GodEater huffs on his coder badge and polishes it
10:08:24LloreanApparently I've been rather active in IRC this month.
10:08:45scorchei have been on a large declivity for the past few months
10:09:03LloreanI just went and looked at the stats.
10:09:06scorchebut i am active around the same amount of time...(idling a lot)
10:09:15LloreanUsually I'm active in the forums more than here, I think.
10:09:26scorcheyou are
10:09:54LloreanI was trying to figure out when I first came on IRC, but there's no obvious way to do that without searching the logs, I think
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10:12:05scorchei feel guilty for being a user for so long and only recently (this term may not apply to many) becoming "involved"
10:14:49scorchei suppose it has been over a year for me, but i still have a few years to go before overtaking my "user" period ;)
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10:27:06 Join combrains [0] ( seems you have to flush caches from the context of the running core on pp...don't know if everyone knew this already and I'm just behind things
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10:28:57LinusNjhMikeS: we've deliberately kept that info from you, to keep you busy :-) seems like those memory address are banked to each core
10:31:04jhMikeSflushing from the CPU before running the COP thread doesn't work. using the same address and flushing from the COP stops the problems as well as flushing the lcd data out from yuv blit and no more screen garbage and the menus or when exiting
10:32:25jhMikeSI do notice that pp has no flushing when loading a plugin though either
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10:34:48iNSOMNiAXcan ipod 5G play wma files?
10:35:15jhMikeSbtw...who the heck is more familiar with the pp details around here?
10:35:52linuxstbdan_a and barrywardell are most active on PP at the moment I think.
10:36:22linuxstbAnd I think Slasheri is working on dual-core stuff.
10:37:14jhMikeSif I flush the COP cache, I can't get it to crash at all. without that, it will crash rather quickly
10:37:39LloreanGet what to crash?
10:37:46jhMikeSmpegplayer on e200
10:38:14LloreanCould that be part of the problem with overall COP support?
10:38:22jhMikeSthere are remaining issues but they are cache related...running on single core shows no trouble without the cache invalidation
10:38:25linuxstbWhat's changed? It seemed stable on dual core in the past.
10:38:35jhMikeSgot me
10:39:06markuniNSOMNiAX: maybe rockbox will play WMA after the summer
10:39:12markunsomeone is planning to work on it
10:39:34GodEateriNSOMNiAX: they're even being paid to do so
10:39:56jhMikeSrunning a large arbitrary memcpy will also stop the difficulties but that's just ugly
10:40:03pondlifejhMikeS: Is this on all PP targets, or can you only test on e200?
10:40:05linuxstbI tried to make sure that the cache wasn't an issue. The only shared data that isn't cached is the main buffer - and the video thread should never be reading data that has only just been buffered (the cache is only 8KB)
10:40:16jhMikeScan only test e200
10:41:01linuxstbAh, but the Sansa has a framebuffer in main memory that both cores are writing to (with the menu)...
10:41:02jhMikeSI'm guessing there is garbage that it's picking up
10:41:40jhMikeSright, doing the flush only from the COP context before pause or exit cures that
10:41:52jhMikeSthe screen garbage
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10:42:26linuxstbCould we simply just move the menu code to the second core?
10:42:32linuxstbi.e. video thread instead of audio thread?
10:42:43jhMikeSwhy can't we flush caches properly and do the right fix?
10:43:08linuxstbWhy is perfoming similar tasks on the same core a bad fix?
10:43:14jhMikeSyou'll never have this stuff reliable without invalidating the cache before loading plugins or starting a cop thread on the plugin
10:44:06jhMikeSId frankly prefer the audio thread not even touch ui code
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10:46:25jhMikeSI think care must be taken at the moment too about what the COP uses from the core
10:46:30cropHello. I've written a little description of RB plugin memory layout (discussed yesterday). Can someone take a look?
10:47:10cropAnd if that's correct put it on the wiki?
10:47:56jhMikeSinvalidate_icache should have an implementation for pp targets for sure
10:48:40linuxstbOf course. But I think we should also design mpegplayer to need minimal cache flushing.
10:49:08jhMikeSof course, but the hardware dictates what "minimal" means
10:49:41linuxstbSo where would you want the UI code? In the main thread with disk buffering?
10:50:08jhMikeSyes...I think it's the best place really since mostly it's just spinning around doing nothing
10:50:37linuxstbThat has the disadvantage that opening the menu will stop any disk buffering. But maybe that's not very important.
10:51:08jhMikeSand drive spinups will make ui unresponsive...will think
10:51:46amiconnWhy not just use another thread for buffering?
10:51:48linuxstbWhich is why I suggested the video thread - but that will create problems with the button driver running on the main core...
10:51:50cropLinusN: and thank you once again for your patience in explaining. A look into a .map file has really helped much!
10:51:56amiconn(also on main core)
10:51:57jhMikeSI really wish the drive could be spun by the ata thread or something without requiring a read or write to happen
10:53:10linuxstbamiconn: Does the ATA code need/benefit from an IRAM stack?
10:53:25jhMikeSjust flushing the cache is simpler than big suprises that come from running core code aynchronously
10:53:29 Quit Soap2 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
10:54:11linuxstbjhMikeS: What do you think are the current cache issues? Just the Sansa's framebuffer, or other things as well?
10:54:49markunSliMM: how fast is the AA drawing?
10:54:56jhMikeSeverything...that's why it will run the first time but subsequent runs have trouble
10:55:34jhMikeSthe cop doesn't perform enough tasks between plugin loads for it to have to recache the plugin memory I think
10:55:58linuxstbAh, you mean the actual plugin loading is the issue?
10:56:48markunjhMikeS: an OSD with alpha transparency might look nice on the mpegplayer :) Too bad it will probably make us loose some fps
10:57:05markunSliMM: sorry, I was talking about alpha transparency, not AA
10:57:05jhMikeSthe CPU cache should be invalidated just like on others...the COP should be invalidated when entering plugin code too
10:57:06GodEatermarkun: we have them to burn on the gigabeat, who cares? :)
10:57:48SliMMmarkun: i really don't know
10:57:52jhMikeSmarkun: of course it would look nice...and we'll lose big FPS if yuv must be converted first
10:57:57LloreanGodEater: As far as I'm concerned we don't have FPS to spare until it never drops frames. :-P
10:58:17jhMikeSunless we have a library to do all rendering in yuv
10:58:33GodEaterLlorean: I've not noticed it dropping any on mine, not during the "widescreen" movies anyway
10:58:45SliMMas of aa drawing.. one of my classmates will (finally) implement wu's algorithm after the programming olimpiade
10:58:55markunjhMikeS: you mean change the overlay to yuv before combining them?
10:59:28LloreanGodEater: Turn on the FPS display and watch the counter, a few will probably stack up every time there's a disk read, or at least they used to.
10:59:33markunSliMM: at least a fun project. I also did some aa line drawing for my job
10:59:47linuxstbI would prefer the CPU cycles to be spent on something like scaling VCD mpeg files to 320x240...
10:59:49LloreanOne here and there isn't always noticeable, but if any drop that means things will make more drop, rather than introducing rare drops here and there.
10:59:55Lloreanlinuxstb: I agree!
11:00:05SliMMit's not that difficult, the pseudocode can be found on wikipedia :))
11:00:17Lloreanlinuxstb: How CPU intensive would scaling be? Is decoding a video that much harder, or is it mostly the drawing?
11:00:29markunlinuxstb: I prefer neither really, but it's still fun
11:00:47jhMikeSmarkun: umm...well, YUV has to be made RGB to a buffer not the current hardware frame buffer
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11:01:23linuxstbLlorean: That obviously depends on the quality of the scaling - so you can't have too many spare CPU cycles. Decoding VCD files is also more CPU intensive - they are high bitrate (1150kbit/s) and 352x240 (NTSC) or 352x288 (PAL)
11:02:22B4gdernow show me a commit!
11:02:25Lloreanlinuxstb: See, 320x176 at 1100kbps seems okay already, so I was wondering if bitrate or size is the larger effect on decode speed, or if one's worse than the other.
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11:02:40B4gder(we bring another build server back into the farm)
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11:03:18amiconnjhMikeS: Why not scale yuv directly? Less data to shuffle around
11:03:34Lloreanlinuxstb: Basically, how much slower is the decode, without the scaling/drawing overhead?
11:03:39 Join spiorf [0] (
11:03:47amiconn(just I don't really see the point in having scaling - videos need to be re-encoded for rockbox mpegplayer anyway)
11:03:50SliMMmarkun: how can i test how fast my code is?
11:04:29SliMMsorry for the topic mistakes
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11:05:38markunSliMM: maybe make a plugin that draws a number of random rectangles, then do the same with transparent rectanles and compare the time both take
11:06:44Lloreanamiconn: Well, VCD files wouldn't have to be re-encoded, iiuc.
11:07:23B4gderSliMM: and use the same random seed for both runs
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11:10:07amiconnLlorean: ?? mpegplayer is too slow even for 220x176 on coldfire...
11:10:27Lloreanamiconn: I think the only suitable target for VCD is Gigabeat at the moment
11:10:40cropHas anybody had a chance to look at
11:10:58Lloreanamiconn: How slow is 220x176 on coldfire right now anyway?
11:11:19amiconnSo it'd be a very target specific thing
11:11:20markunas long as the scaling code doesn't hurt the performance of prescaled videos I think it's no problem to have it
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11:11:57Lloreanamiconn: Unfortunately yes. As markun said, though, I don't see it as being a problem as long as it doesn't interfere with anything else.
11:12:32cropHow can moving backlight code to target tree increase the H10 bin size by 1440?
11:12:49B4gderit wasn't that move that cause the growth
11:12:59B4gderit was the move to mi4 file format
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11:13:21B4gderwhich uses padding and a header
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11:14:31amiconnThen we could make lcd_yuv_blit do the scaling on gigabeat. It's target specific anyway...
11:14:55linuxstbYes, I agree - no point in supporting scaling on the slower devices.
11:15:54pondlifecrop: I'm not totally qualified to comment on the accuracy, but I suggest you put it in the wiki anyway.
11:16:42amiconnLlorean: I didn't test mpegplayer a single time on any device since it supports audio...
11:16:52amiconnBut I guess something like 10fps for fullscreen
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11:17:25amiconnmirak's patch would help quite somewhat - if someone manages to pick the relevant bits and integrate it properly...
11:17:29Lloreanamiconn: I was just curious relative to the original firmware, since Video, WMA, and USBOTG are our last three H300 features, and that may be cleared up by the end of the summer
11:19:54PaulJamLlorean: you forgot the shiny icons in the original firmware.
11:20:36LloreanPaulJam: If that's a "feature" to some people, I'm happy if they don't use Rockbox. :-P
11:21:26croppondlife: I don't have a wiki account (and wouldn't like to have one and wouldn't like to explaint the reasons :-)
11:21:47amiconnPaulJam: You mean the unintuitive iriver gui?
11:21:57Lloreancrop: If you're unwilling to give your real name, you can't really contribute to Rockbox much anyway.
11:22:16croppondlife: a general RB memory layout may follow as the two go hand in hand
11:23:08bospaadjewhy are there so many yellow builds atm? :-S
11:23:28Lloreanbospaadje: There's a #warning in the code.
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11:23:42cropLlorean: ok, then I'll keep the description for me (but I don't mind if someone will put it to the wiki). Actually, once you've got it, the document isn't needed anymore, but it could be useful for the start.
11:25:33Lloreancrop: Just to make you aware, we ask for real names with code submissions too, and put them in the credits. So you may want to be aware with this before you begin working on something.
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11:28:45cropLlorean: that's ok with me. I only wanted to share my findings as a noob while understanding the RB memory. I don't insist that it should be included anywhere.
11:29:22bospaadjewill the yellow builds for ipod nano work or do i need an older version?
11:29:24cropI respect and appreciate RB rules but have my reasons not to put that text on the wiki by myself.
11:29:25Lloreancrop: Well, you seemed to be an expressing a deeper interest in how Rockbox works, this tends to lead to someone trying to write a patch or contribute.
11:29:48Lloreanbospaadje: They work fine.
11:30:00bospaadjeLlorean: thanks
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11:31:26cropLlorean: so for example you can put it on the wiki. There are (as far as I know) no credits given for it so there will be no wrong credits :-)
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11:37:44linuxstbcrop: The history of the wiki page shows the contributors
11:37:58linuxstbSo that's the "credits" for the wiki.
11:41:01pixelmahmm... any wiki admins around? While looking through the plugin pages, I've found that there is PluginSearchengine which belonged to databox as I've been told. Could someone mover that page over to OldPluginIndex... I doubt I can do that myself but must admit that I haven't tried...
11:42:01linuxstbI think you just need to change "CategoryPlugin" at the bottom of PluginSearchengine to say "CategoryOldPlugin".
11:42:42croplinuxstb: but an indirect ;-) Anyway: I've made a proposal. If you like it take it. Or forget it. But may I still ask questions here?
11:42:48 Quit FOAD_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:43:25PaulJambtw, the viewers.config still contains a line fir the searchengine plugin
11:43:31linuxstbcrop: To be honest, why should we spend time explaining things to you if you're not planning on contributing to Rockbox?
11:45:02SliMMcrop: what is with
11:47:06pixelmalinuxstb: thanks a lot - I didn't expect it to be this easy! :)
11:47:43bluebrotherone of the nice features of twiki ;-)
11:48:19SliMMmarkun: can i add ICODE_ATTR to my xlcd_drawpixel_alpha?
11:49:09pixelmabluebrother: well, I just had in mind that users aren't allowed to move attachments to "trash" anymore...
11:49:14linuxstbSliMM: That means that any plugin using your library must stop audio playback and correctly initialise IRAM. So I would say it's not desirable.
11:49:19cropSliMM: what do you mean?
11:49:41pixelmabluebrother: so I thought it could be harder or blocked too
11:49:53SliMMcrop: yo asked earlyer "Has anybody had a chance to look at"
11:50:05bluebrotherright ... but this is one of the features I happened to like about twiki
11:50:19SliMMlinuxstb: thanks, good to know
11:50:59pixelmayeah, nice feature indeed :)
11:51:26croplinuxstb: there are many anonymous users here who ask questions. OTOH I understand that my refusal to tell my real name for the wiki puts me somewhat outside of the community.
11:52:25Lloreancrop: Well, you've basically announced your intention to not contribute to the community. Clearly this doesn't mean that nobody will ever answer your questions, but people are much less likely to spend time on questions beyond the usual "Why doesn't this work" style user-questions.
11:52:34bluebrothercrop: you need to distinguish between anonymous users who don't intend to contribute and only search for help like installation and others (like you) who show interest in the code itself
11:53:05cropSliMM: this what I've written while trying to understand how plugins are laid out in the memory, how plugin loading works and what iram attributes are. And offered the text for inclusion to the wiki.
11:53:08LloreanIn depth explanations of how the code works can take up developer time that could go to much better use.
11:53:33SliMMcrop: oh, ok :)
11:53:47SliMMis the wiki layout easily configurable?
11:53:48linuxstbcrop: Your page looks very useful, but it's the policy of Rockbox not to accept anonymous contributions - we've rejected other useful things in the past because of that rule.
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11:54:45croplinuxstb: :-/
11:55:04B4gderin fact, most large open source projects act like this these days
11:55:25B4gderor at least many
11:55:39LloreanSeriously, if someone doesn't want our project associated with their real name, any "good" reason for that also suggests we don't want their contributions because they probably aren't in the white.
11:55:39amiconnLinusN: Did you check my target tree moves? Anything that could be improved / done differently?
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11:56:10Llorean"good" meaning "reasons they can't reveal their real name for fear of repercussions"
12:00:08cropLlorean: you mean someone trying to steal RB's intellectual property? No, I'm not of that sort. I don't work for any dap manufacturer or the like. Actually, my work doesn't have anything with daps, sound processing etc. But I have some experience in C programming and am a grateful rockbox user
12:00:34Lloreancrop: No, I mean just the opposite.
12:00:34GodEaterwe only have your word for that though
12:00:55LloreanSomeone contributing code or information that they don't have a right to contribute.
12:01:04LloreanIf someone's not willing to sign their real name to it, it doesn't impose a lot of trust.
12:01:06GodEateralthough apparently arriving from a school's network would tend to support your claim
12:01:35LloreanIf you're not doing anything wrong, you've got nothing to hide except a desire for anonymity, I believe.
12:02:10LloreanAnd if your desire for anonymity is stronger than your desire to contribute, my desire to work on other things is stronger than my desire to explain things beyond basic help. :)
12:02:30LloreanThese are my personal views on the matter and in no way reflect the project as a whole, by the way.
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12:03:28B4gderwe've been through this discussion many times
12:03:55B4gderand we haven't given in yet
12:04:34*GodEater coughs and mumbles "MrH"
12:04:46B4gderyeah, but...
12:04:49LloreanGodEater: Name a piece of code MrH has contributed to Rockbox?
12:04:52B4gder1) MrH has no code in Rockbox
12:05:05B4gder2) I puslish MrH stuff on my personal pages, outside of Rockbox
12:05:19B4gderbut sure, info from his work is the base of Rockbox code
12:05:21LloreanFor all practical purposes, MrH is a datasheet that B4gder has access to.
12:05:41GodEaterI readily submit that he appears to have handed all rights to his work over to Bagder
12:06:06LloreanI don't believe B4gder's done anything that would need rights to MrH's work..
12:06:09GodEateralthough having them on Bagder's personal pages makes them a pain to access from work (notwithstanding my hacks around our evil proxy server)
12:06:24B4gdermy evil site
12:06:45GodEaterI believe ABN's proxy dislikes the word haxx in the url.
12:07:02B4gderthis company I'm on now allows but not
12:07:02scorcheor that he is a self-described "hacker"
12:07:26B4gderwe're more dangerous on our own than as a team I take it ;-)
12:10:48cropGodEater: yes, that's my point. If I'll contibute code, I'll also tell my real name. But I wouldn't like to do this for a wiki contrib.
12:11:09Lloreancrop: That seems very arbitrary...
12:12:38*Llorean shrugs
12:12:39LloreanAh well.
12:13:20*Llorean usually won't even make small changes to wiki pages for other people, so the habit of contributing by repairing the wiki gets developed.
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12:17:04 Part crop
12:17:55SliMMwhat does pcf50606_write() do?
12:18:06linuxstbWrites to the pcf50606 chip
12:18:12 Quit brenda (Remote closed the connection)
12:18:24bluebrothercrop could still post the information to the forums −− we don't ask for real names there
12:18:29 Join brenda [0] (
12:18:34 Quit brenda (Remote closed the connection)
12:18:35bluebrotherbut as I see he already left
12:18:38SliMMso where can i find the definition of all these functions?
12:18:46SliMMand can i use them in plugins?
12:18:55scorchebluebrother: well, we dont typically appreciate static information int he forums
12:19:07linuxstbYou shouldn't access hardware functions directly from plugins - you can, but it's not desirable.
12:19:10B4gderSliMM: you want to write to 50606 in a plugin?
12:19:15 Quit combrains (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:19:37bluebrotherscorche: right, but if he doesn't want to contribute it to the wiki it would at least a way to "show" it the public. I guess the pastebin url will get lost quite quickly
12:19:45bluebrotherwhile the forums can be searched
12:19:46SliMMno, i don't want to, i don't even know what that is, just asking :)
12:20:15scorchebluebrother: either way, it wouldnt be something i would suggest
12:20:23Lloreanbluebrother: I'd probably have to delete it for consistency of rules enforcement.
12:20:28SliMMi just want to know if i can have hardware control in plugins
12:20:39B4gderSliMM: hardware control over what?
12:20:43SliMMbecause wirting a driver isn
12:20:51Lloreanbluebrother: The forums aren't for static data, just discussion. The wiki is for static information. I've told too many people this to allow one to slip by, even though I do like the idea of documenting all that.
12:20:58bluebrotherLlorean: even in the compiling forums? Hmm, I'm not too firm with that rules
12:21:01SliMM't quite easy to me
12:21:04B4gderSliMM: we make an effort to make plugins work on multiple targets
12:21:10*scorche started that trend =)
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12:21:32SliMMB4gder: you have a point there :P
12:21:33Lloreanbluebrother: The general idea is that if something is going to be "posted" it should be posted to the wiki. That's why I discourage stickys for anything, if it should be sticky, it should be in the wiki instead.
12:21:53B4gderSliMM: so plugins use the more upper-layer functions and they are then converted to the proper lower-level
12:22:44Lloreanbluebrother: Honestly I'm not too happy with the sticky in the Ipod Installation forum, but it seemed to be a necessity. The manual and IpodFAQ aren't good enough at getting that information out.
12:22:48SliMMhow can i write a driver for.. let's say an usb external keybord?
12:23:17B4gderSliMM: 1) write a usb stack
12:23:27B4gder2) write the "hid" part of the usb stack
12:23:31B4gder3) insert keyboard
12:23:35linuxstb0) Write a low-level driver for the USB hardware in your device
12:24:04SliMMaha :)) i think i'll just wait for university
12:24:19markunor.. wait for austriancoder to do much of the work for you this summer
12:24:36bluebrotherwhy not something easier? Like the ipod piezo −− there has already some work been done
12:24:39SliMMor that :)
12:25:07LinusN4) profit
12:25:07SliMMbluebrother: i don't know where to start from
12:25:30scorcheLinusN: no no...4 is "???" while 5 is "profit"
12:25:35SliMMand also, ipod piezo offers no advantage
12:25:37 Join TheSphinX^ [0] (
12:25:39LinusNscorche: :-)
12:26:03B4gder6) chicks and glory
12:26:19SliMMi think i'll just start by tak a look over
12:26:24scorcheB4gder: well, you can buy those from profit
12:26:31SliMMstupid backspace!
12:26:31*bluebrother misses the "convince users that they *need* that stuff" step
12:26:32markunnobody cares about world domination anymore these days..
12:26:56SliMMi think i'll just start by taking a look over the sources of other drivers
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12:28:46*Llorean thinks a USB keyboard for a device meant to be a portable music player is 100% useless.
12:29:06scorcheLlorean: i think the same about doom though too...
12:29:36LloreanI do too.
12:29:59SliMMllorean: you don't have to take the keyboard with you, just take the device. usb keyboards are almost everywhere these days
12:30:10LloreanBut Doom at least can be used without extra hardware.
12:30:18B4gderwe're good at "rubbish" !
12:30:23scorcheSliMM: you are missing the point here
12:30:38SliMMscorche: probably
12:30:49LloreanSliMM: And USB keyboard would require A) An adapter, and B) A reason why you want to type so badly on an MP3 player that you need to hook up an adapter and borrow a keyboard
12:31:20markunSliMM: but hey, rockbox is about having fun, so don't be discouraged by those guys :)
12:31:49SliMMmarkun: i am not, because i can't write drivers anyway
12:31:56Lloreanmarkun: Well they first tried to encourage him to work on something actually useful (piezo)
12:32:28SliMMand the first driver i'll write will be a keyboard driver for rockbox :P
12:32:32markunI wonder how much fun the GSoC mentoring will turn out to be..
12:32:38LloreanOut of curiosity, does the current patch base ticks on movement in the list, or use of the scroll wheel?
12:33:03preglowmarkun: enormous amounts!
12:33:39LinusNchicks and glory :-)
12:33:59*Llorean probably could pick up chicks around here with a GSOC T-shirt.
12:34:22markunMy rockbox T-shirt doesn't attract too many chicks here in Paris :)
12:34:34SliMMSEO is really good :-?
12:35:05markunbut maybe it's just my beard..
12:35:08LloreanI've only had one person even recognize the Rockbox shirt.
12:35:43LinusNwe need more publicity :-)
12:36:23markunor a new logo? ;)
12:36:30scorchewell, if i end up attending the head-fi meet, a good deal of those should recognise it ;)
12:36:32LloreanClearly a new logo will make the world a better place.
12:36:47LinusNand make rockbox more stable
12:36:48markunor many new logos!
12:36:54LloreanLogos are good for stability.
12:37:08preglowwe don't need actual stability anyway
12:37:11preglowjust apparant stability
12:37:15preglowlogos help with that
12:37:15LinusNand logos
12:37:21scorcheit helps with optimization as well
12:37:25preglowespecially that
12:37:39markunB4gder: can you make sure there are some left over t-shirts again this year?
12:37:39SliMMi like that musical note logo - both upside down and normal version
12:37:49LinusNmarkun: you bet
12:38:00*scorche is ready to fight for one
12:38:01LinusNSliMM: i like it too
12:38:11pixelmamarkun: depends on how much you want to pay ;)
12:38:15*Llorean will take on all challengers in a battle for a RBDC07 T-shirt.
12:38:20markunLinusN: I was really telling myself all year I would go this time..
12:38:31LinusNmarkun: then go
12:38:33markunbut I guess I'll just watch you guys having fun in front of the webcam
12:38:45scorcheLlorean: what format shall be enforced in this battle-for-the-shirt?
12:38:48SliMMin the upside down version, the musical note is pretty clear, but there are upside down musical notes too
12:39:08LinusNscorche: we call it the "Paypal Race" :-)
12:39:12*TheSphinX^ want's a Rockbox T-Shirt! But if there aren't any officials ... selfmade and so on ;) :(
12:39:12B4gdermarkun: I'll give you a collector's version of last year's model if you come ;-)
12:39:23Lloreanscorche: One of us receives the shirt from Sweden, and on trust we meet up somewhere, and one person walks away with the shirt, one doesn't, no rules. :-P
12:39:44LloreanTheSphinX^: I did mention I'd be willing to try to put together a CafePress shop.
12:39:47markunB4gder: the way you say that makes me doubt I want that particular shirt, right?
12:39:52scorcheLinusN: can i pre-emptively pay for my shipping? =P
12:39:59LloreanDoes anyone object to me opening up a CafePress store with the current logo on various things?
12:40:00scorcheor is that cheating?
12:40:00B4gdernow now, don't be like that ;-)
12:40:15B4gderLlorean: oh no, please go ahead!
12:40:42LinusNjust don't put the credits list on the back :-) (old joke)
12:40:46*scorche attempted to find out exactly how much the creator of such a store actually gets
12:40:52scorcheand failed
12:41:03LloreanB4gder: Just making sure. Money would either go to 1) Getting me to Sweden more easily next year, 2) Donations to the RB Paypal, or 3) Getting me more targets to better provide support (I have my eye on an X5 or an H10, as I feel either of those I don't know enough about without handling one)
12:41:15Lloreanscorche: It can't be much.
12:41:54B4gderyou set the prices so you get the difference between their prices and the one you set, right?
12:42:04scorcheB4gder: how many shirts were/are being made for this year?
12:42:17B4gderit hasn't be set yet
12:42:33SliMMwhere can i find the drivers?
12:42:47TheSphinX^Llorean tahke the x5! ;P
12:43:05scorcheif devcon-west ends up taking off and we have enough, would you mind shipping a few over instead of just one?
12:43:19LloreanTheSphinX^: It'll depend entirely on when I have money for a new target. Preference will go to a completely unique target (for example AV300 or Creative ZVM if either is running RB at the time).
12:43:27LinusNscorche: sounds like a good idea
12:43:32scorchei will, of course, still pay for shipping =)
12:43:47B4gderthe shipping is quite costly
12:43:48LinusNLlorean: imho, av300 is a dead target
12:43:57B4gderHaxx will sponsor the shirts again
12:44:12TheSphinX^B4gder what color would the defcon-shirt have this year? babyblue like last year?
12:44:27scorcheTheSphinX^: not defcon ;)
12:44:34B4gderwhite, with blue "edges"
12:44:38LinusNTheSphinX^: you'll see...... :-)
12:44:48scorcheB4gder: you spoiled the surprise!
12:45:02LinusNB4gder: :-P
12:45:25LloreanLinusN: It's dead at the moment.
12:45:34B4gderin that case: no, it is a secret! ;-)
12:45:56LinusNLlorean: it's a really old target, and to my knowledge the only dual-codec target
12:45:56B4gderbut we're planning another "article" as well
12:46:01LloreanLinusN: I don't plan to buy a target until Rockbox is running on it, since in most cases I'm purchasing to either help with bugtesting/confirmation, or to be able to better understand the install process or button mapping for providing support.
12:46:02B4gderso I can keep that secret
12:46:06preglowrockbox bread slicer
12:46:27TheSphinX^So I just can see it on the photos after the devcon ... :(
12:46:40scorcheB4gder: was it just cheap for me last year because you packaged it in a bag and it was one shirt? ;)
12:46:48LloreanAlright, does "Rockbox US Store" sound okay for the Cafepress shop, so that maybe someone else can start one with that t-shirt website that's more Europe-friendly?
12:47:08LinusNLlorean: watch out for trademark issues
12:47:23B4gderscorche: you got it at the same price and same exclusive packaging the others got
12:47:34pondlifeLinusN: ? ?
12:47:56scorcheB4gder: as compared with the "shipping is quite expensive" comment earlier
12:48:11B4gderwell I consider ~10USD quite expensive for one shirt
12:48:13LinusNi think you should call the shop " US store"
12:48:19LloreanLinusN: Good idea.
12:48:21TheSphinX^I hope that bluebrother does what he sad in that thread.
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12:50:57SliMMso how do i start writing a driver for smth connected to the ipod dock connector? :D
12:51:46 Part norbusan
12:51:48scorcheSliMM: start here
12:52:46linuxstbSliMM: You'll need to start by writing a serial port driver - that comes before the AAP
12:53:41LinusNdo we know how to do that?
12:53:41SliMMlinuxstb: isn't there one written yet?
12:53:47linuxstbLinusN: No.
12:53:49markunB4gder, LinusN: hm, a 200 euro return ticket with air berlin..
12:54:07linuxstbI think the IPL kernel has one, but according to the devs it doesn't work.
12:54:17pondlifeHmm, after playing an album, attempting to generate a playlist gives the "Delete dynamic playlist" warning... but pressing PLAY gives "Nothing to resume"...
12:54:24pondlifeDoesn't seem quite right
12:54:44LinusNsounds like a bug
12:55:00pondlifeShould be supressing that warning if the current playlist is blank
12:55:06pondlifesuppressing even
12:55:07SliMMhow does the ipod detect usb connection then?
12:55:18linuxstbThat's USB - it's different to the serial port.
12:55:35linuxstbThe serial port is used to communicate with the accessories.
12:56:57B4gdermarkun: go go go ;-)
12:57:32pondlifemarkun: Think of the t-shirt...
12:57:38markunB4gder: I'm still hoping to find something under 100 :)
12:57:57SliMMfine, fine, i give up
12:58:01markuneven by bus it's 130 from amsterdam
12:58:04SliMMi'll buy a book or smth
12:58:16 Quit Br3nda ("brain hybernation")
12:58:36markunSliMM: working on the serial interface would make a lot of people happy I think
12:59:04linuxstbSliMM: Anything that's easy on the ipods has already been done... What's left is hard.
12:59:13SliMMmarkun: you need some knoledge to do that
12:59:13B4gdermarkun: we wouldn't be shy to sponsor your ticket
13:00:09markunB4gder: wow, now you're making it very hard to say no..
13:00:27markunI'll search a bit more for cheaper options
13:01:52SliMMdid i spell that wrong?
13:02:27SliMMoh, i've missed a 'w'
13:02:33 Nick TheSphinX^ is now known as ColdSphinX (
13:02:53 Nick ColdSphinX is now known as ColdSphinX^afk (
13:03:10*GodEater wishes people would nick spam
13:03:39B4gderdid you forget a NOT in there or are you pleased now? ,-)
13:03:59pixelmawould?... ah beaten ;)
13:04:01GodEaterI think I may have missed the NOT ;)
13:04:12 Nick ColdSphinX^afk is now known as ColdSphinX^ (
13:04:40scorcheColdSphinX^: please do not change your nick to indicate away status
13:04:50scorchethis is in the channel guidelines
13:05:02GodEater /away is perfectly good enough
13:05:15linuxstbWe have channel guidelines?
13:05:19ColdSphinX^I yust looket for something (nicklength) =)
13:05:29pixelmalinuxstb: see topic?
13:06:05*linuxstb goes to read the guidelines
13:06:13scorchelinuxstb: i made them a few weeks back
13:07:13*GodEater curses VMWare
13:07:23linuxstbI'm not sure if I agree with the "may I PM?" rule. It's just as easy to respond to someone privately saying "no PMs" as it is to say no in the channel, and removes clutter.
13:08:03GodEaterlinuxstb: or even ignore it entirely
13:08:09scorchelinuxstb: that is also on the freenode guidelines as well
13:08:26linuxstbGodEater: Exactly.
13:08:35scorchebut, it is a wiki, so feel free to remove it ;)
13:09:21scorchehrm...also, i should remove the colors and change to special characters...we already have mode +c
13:09:36linuxstbI don't really care though - I can't remember the last time I saw someone ask to PM...
13:09:46scorchelinuxstb: while i am at it, i will remove it then
13:09:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:14:03 Join Arathis [0] (
13:14:21LloreanDoes this look okay to everyone, as a "current edition" of a US shop: Cafepress' prices are a little high, but it means people can now buy "official" Rockbox shirts, and a better alternative may be found later.
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13:16:32LloreanPreferably a better alternative means "things don't have ridiculously high base prices"
13:17:00markunLlorean: can they use the svg image?
13:17:11tikeLlorean: hehe. The left column is for ipod nano owners while right top t-shirt is for ipod 4g :)
13:17:19markunor maybe some other vector format
13:17:20Lloreanmarkun: I used the high-res .tif
13:17:38LloreanWell, I converted it to .png first since they didn't like the alpha channels.
13:17:51 Quit tike (Client Quit)
13:18:40Lloreanmarkun: It'll accept PSD, are those vector based?
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13:19:07amiconnLlorean: nope
13:19:08pixelmamarkun: the svg lacks the "structure" of the "box" text
13:19:17LloreanWell, then no vector forms.
13:19:17ColdSphinX^Llorean: you forgot key trailer and key volumes! :D
13:19:28markunpixelma: true
13:19:30LloreanIt only supports bitmap EPS files.
13:20:19scorchewe could always add one of these to the shop too:
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13:20:58*scorche would get one just for having the novelty of having a rockbox branded one
13:21:21LloreanJust... no. :-P
13:21:30scorchei wouldnt wear it!
13:21:35LloreanSo, any suitable objections to the shop before I announce it to the masses?
13:21:51linuxstbAnd for the Rockbox babies...
13:22:06B4gderdo they accept paypal btw?
13:22:13scorchewe could get one for rex!
13:22:22B4gderwe need more baby products
13:22:49LloreanB4gder: I think they don't like paypal
13:23:23LloreanI think Bluebrother expressed an interest in using another site that doesn't ship to the US, but does to paypal
13:23:30LloreanI don't see a harm in having both.
13:23:42ColdSphinX^Llorean could something like that ( ) be aviable?
13:23:49Lynx_Llorean: isn't spreadshirt cheaper?
13:24:20LloreanLynx_: I think there was a problem with them in regard to shipping options.
13:24:29Lynx_Llorean: ok
13:24:58LloreanAnd it's not like this has to be permanent. We can seek better options.
13:25:13ColdSphinX^( ) bluebrother sad that he would look for an european sistershop.
13:26:03ColdSphinX^bluebrother are you there?
13:26:09scorcheColdSphinX^: a lanyard is not one of the available options
13:26:21Nico_PLinusN: in, about the # char, you said "I think escaping it is the far better solution."... You mean using %# to display it and having it as a comment sign the rest of the time ?
13:26:28ColdSphinX^scorche doesn't matter
13:26:43LinusNNico_P: yes
13:27:14Nico_PLinusN: ok, I'll do that then. sounds fine
13:27:23scorcheColdSphinX^: how does that not matter?...on cafepress, you can only make what they produce...
13:28:22GodEaterscorche: I think he meant "never mind"
13:28:27ColdSphinX^I wil look for an offer there in germany ....
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13:31:44*scorche sleeps
13:33:43Nico_PLinusN: so now an unescaped # will eat the rest of the line as a comment, including the '\n'
13:33:48ColdSphinX^I simply didn't know what they produce and if they don't produce lanyards I will have to look how to get it on an other way, but it doesn't matter if I haven't it. (pleas forgive me if my english is bad)
13:34:02LinusNNico_P: sounds good
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13:34:23*bluebrother returns
13:34:31*Llorean wonders what it was about spreadshirt he didn't like.
13:34:38LloreanI can't seem to remember now, looking over their site.
13:34:40jac0bwhat does this mean in the changelog
13:34:41jac0b12 Apr 11:03 Marcoen Hirschberg firmware/sound.c [diff] remove Sansa from the todo
13:34:45bluebrotherLlorean: I'd be interested in a european spreadshirt shop
13:34:54 Join Arathis__ [0] (
13:34:57bluebrotheras a sister shop to yours ;-)
13:35:01pixelmaNico_P: what about a # that is in a tag? Will they be displayed correctly?
13:35:13bluebrotherspreadshirt doesn't provide mugs :(
13:35:17Nico_Ppixelma: in a tag ?
13:35:33bluebrotherand, if you want to use it in the us, you need to setup a second spreadshirt shop for the us market
13:35:40bluebrotherwhich is somewhat annoying.
13:35:43Lloreanbluebrother: I can't imagine that was the only reason I wasn't interested in it. I swear there was some sort of shipping concern, but I can't see one looking it over.
13:35:57bluebrotherI somewhat dislike their shop being heavily flash-based
13:36:17Lloreanbluebrother: Feel free to open one up then. I'll add it to the forum post when you do.
13:36:19ColdSphinX^jac0b: he only removed it from the todolist in the comment, becaues it's already done
13:36:24bluebrotherI haven't looked too far into us spreadshirt. For europe it seems quite ok to me
13:36:40bluebrotherLlorean: won't find the time to look into details within the next 4 weeks.
13:36:45pixelmaNico_P: if someone used a '#' sign for example in the album tag as disc number for example
13:36:55bluebrotherbut if noone else opens one eariler I will have a look
13:36:57Lloreanbluebrother: Alright, maybe I'll look into it then.
13:37:18 Join Mmmm [0] (
13:37:27*Llorean wonders if merchandise could cover or at least reduce the cost of a new server for the forums.
13:37:30LinusNpixelma: that's why we are discussing this, i.e we will escape it: %#
13:37:33bluebrotherthe only annoying thing is that you need to have two shops with spreadshirt, one for the us and one for europe :)
13:37:47Nico_Ppixelma: I don't really understand what you mean by "tag"... if it's in the WPS, it'll have to be escaped with a % sign, or if it's in the track's metadata, then no problem
13:37:57Lloreanbluebrother: Well, we have a US Cafepress shop at the moment, though if spreadshirt turns out nicer would could move all apparel to it and leave Cafepress for the mugs.
13:38:20pixelmaNico_P: I meant the metadata...
13:38:22bluebrotherLlorean: if you open a shop that ships to europe (and accepts payments other than credit cards, cause I don't have one) expect me to buy at least one shirt ;-)
13:38:36Lloreanbluebrother: I'll see what I can do. :)
13:38:46Nico_Ppixelma: the WPS code doesn't do anything special with the metadata
13:38:54Nico_Pit only displays it
13:38:57LloreanI would like to move the forums though at some point, I'm always concerned about how much disk space we're taking up, and mildly frustrated by the early morning (here) slowness.
13:39:21LloreanOh, and the fact that only one person can fix the search when it breaks. :)
13:39:29bluebrotherif you open a us spreadshirt and it's easier to run a european spreadshirt sister shop from europe just tell me ;-)
13:39:52bluebrotherbut if you can run it yourself ... less work for me :)
13:40:01jac0boh I was thinking they were finished with the sansa
13:40:06Lloreanbluebrother: I'll investigate it and see if I can learn more. I hadn't heard of Spreadshirt until a few days ago anyway, so I don't know how it works at all.
13:41:29LloreanBut I like the idea of people finally being able to have Rockbox shirts, through whatever means. :)
13:41:33bluebrotherbut it's nice to have a shop up and running already.
13:41:41pixelmaNico_P: just asking out of curiosity
13:42:03LloreanI'll now be waiting for the day I finally bump into a strange wearing one.
13:42:13LloreanI can say "Hey, I bet you know me! I yell at people in the forums!"
13:42:35B4gderLlorean: well, we're still owe Jeff the domain and he runs the official forums on his request as a returned favour
13:42:45B4gderfor the domain even
13:42:53LloreanWell that's fine then.
13:43:23B4gderso if we are to change things, I really think we should have his blessing
13:43:24LloreanB4gder: I just worry because of how quickly we're growing these days.
13:43:30 Join Thundercloud [0] (
13:43:33LloreanBut I wouldn't dream of doing it without his blessing.
13:44:44 Join mbr [0] (
13:45:16LloreanMy real concern was that we might be becoming too much a drain on his resources. I mean, we're only about 1/10 the size of MR but that's still quite a ways up from where we were when we started, but as long as he's okay with us then I'm (mostly) happy. :)
13:45:34 Join Spec [0] (n=spec@
13:46:05LloreanI'm hoping an upgrade to the release of SMF might cause it to stop breaking the search function, but I want to make sure I have plenty of time available to fix whatever havoc it causes (like last time) alongside.
13:48:20linuxstbB4gder: What's the history of the domain name? Are you saying Jeff owned the name in the past?
13:48:29B4gderhe bought it
13:48:33B4gderand handed it over to us
13:48:49B4gderand requested to run the forums
13:49:25B4gderit became available in the midst of everything when we certainly didn't really consider a domain
13:50:22 Quit Arathis (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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13:50:47B4gder... which is also why he got the first Tetris C&D letter...
13:50:59safetydanLlorean: googling for "cafe press alternative" throws up a few interesting things
13:51:06 Quit Arathis_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:53:15jac0bare there going to be rockbox shirts
13:53:32 Quit Arathis__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
13:54:02bluebrotherbtw, will the devcon shirts be somewhat different?
13:54:35Lloreanjac0b: If you live in the US, you can already buy one at Cafepress, at least up until we find something better.
13:54:50bluebrotherdo you reveal in what way? A "devcon 2007" on the back or something?
13:55:09pondlifeIt's a secret, read the logs...;p
13:55:15bluebrotheroooh ...
13:55:34bluebrotherwill do later today. Don't have my log collection around for grepping ;-)
13:55:55jac0bi don't see rockbox in teh search at cafepress
13:56:13pondlifeIf I change a string in English.lang (e.g. Crossfeed -> Soundstage), do I also need to update all other .langs?
13:56:23pondlifeI mean a <source> string...
13:56:28B4gderpondlife: no
13:56:31Lloreansafetydan: Honestly, if I find a better alternative I'll probably move to it.
13:56:43Lloreansafetydan: I just wanted something I could set up very quickly so people could finally have "official" shirts.
13:56:49B4gderpondlife: the translators will notice when they run genlang
13:56:52Nico_Perr, how come my commit got the mini build to turn red ?
13:57:33B4gderlooks like a compiler error
13:57:58ColdSphinX^bluebrother see rockbox-lounge ;)
13:58:07LloreanB4gder: GCC 4.0.2
13:58:11Nico_PB4gder: so it's not my fault ?
13:58:22B4gderNico_P: correct
13:58:44safetydanLlorean: I've had bad luck with the quality of shirts from cafepress, but I can't offer anything better at the moment so I'll stay quiet now.
13:59:07pondlifeNico_P: Am I right in thinking that %xd doesn't do anything any more?
13:59:29Nico_Ppondlife: it's the image display tag
13:59:31SliMMB4gder: i feel redy for testing now: how do i measure time, set a seed and use random numbers?
13:59:49B4gderSliMM: use the tick counter to measure time
13:59:50pondlifeAh, the manual says "%xd Crossfeed setting"
14:00:11 Quit PaulJam (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
14:00:16SliMMrandom seed and random numbers?
14:00:26Nico_Ppondlife: right, I forgot to correct that. It actually used to do both but I didn't put crossfeed back in
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14:00:53Lloreansafetydan: Oh, I have no doubt there's a better alternative for shirts. But cafepress makes it really easy to set up the storefront and offer mugs as well. I really like mugs.
14:01:02Lloreansafetydan: But as I said, I'll research some of those alternatives.
14:01:26bluebrotherColdSphinX^: just posted in the "Schlüsselanhänger" thread a few minutes earlier ;-)
14:02:22ColdSphinX^i know :( but so the peaole will see it earlyer ;)
14:03:08bluebrotheruh-uh, now that you mentioned me at the front page ... *g*
14:04:07ColdSphinX^damn i forgot an space
14:04:18bluebrotherI can cope with it
14:04:43linuxstbLlorean: Shouldn't that merchandise info be in the wiki? ;)
14:05:22Lloreanlinuxstb: Indeed it should. :)
14:05:34LloreanDoes RockboxMerchandise seem like a good page?
14:06:24 Quit safetydan (Remote closed the connection)
14:06:25SliMMB4gder: how do i use the tick counter? :D
14:06:26ColdSphinX^And it should be announced in the news on the frontpage :)
14:06:37*bluebrother hopes for a devcon shirt even if he can't attend (unfortunately)
14:06:44linuxstbSliMM: x = *rb->current_tick;
14:07:19SliMMand from ticks to miliseconds?
14:08:08bluebrotherticks * 1000 / HZ
14:08:30 Quit ColdSphinX^ ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
14:08:39SliMMthat should do it
14:08:53bluebrotheriirc :)
14:09:08linuxstbBut you don't get ms accuracy - HZ is 100 on all targets. So you get 10ms accuracy.
14:09:10pixelmabluebrother: I want a t-shirt with the "Quellwiedereinbaumikroprogrammaufstellung" on it (though those might only be available in XXL) ;)
14:09:27bluebrotherpixelma: LOL. Great :)
14:09:39bluebrothermaybe print it diagonal ...
14:10:01SliMMwhat about randomisation?
14:10:42LloreanWhat does that mean?
14:10:48*linuxstb wonders if "Source re-installation microprogram list" is an accurate translation
14:10:51SliMMpixelma: some translation pls :)
14:11:53pixelmaSliMM: that joke arouse from the automatic google translation of the frontpage from english into german
14:12:14bluebrother... and the german translation is ... more than weird ;-)
14:12:25linuxstbWhat was the original English?
14:12:41pixelmaI think it's impossible to translate it back
14:12:46LinusNSliMM: rb->srand(seed)
14:12:54SliMMpixelma: got it
14:13:04LinusNSliMM: random_val = rb->rand();
14:13:17SliMMLinusN: what is the max value?
14:13:40pixelmathe original is the first sentence "Rockbox is an open source replacement firmware for mp3 players." (part of)
14:14:27SliMMand what if i want to limit the maximum value?
14:14:33Lloreanlinuxstb: The mikroprogrammaufstellung bit is what "firmware" gets from Babelfish
14:14:39bluebrotherthe "source replacement firmware" part yields that translation with google's babelfish
14:14:45pixelmait should be the "open source replacement firmware" part though it's almost not recognisable
14:15:36pixelmawithout the "open"...
14:16:22pondlifeShould we be keeping old terminology as keys in config.cfg - e.g. tagcache_ram ?
14:16:52pondlifeBackward compatibility is nice, but is this more confusing?
14:17:51bluebrotherpondlife: I'm for keeping −− average users don't edit configuration files anyway
14:17:59pondlifeOK, just checking
14:18:13bluebrotherand it is tagcache −− it's just called differently to the user ;-)
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14:20:12Specanyone know of a spider solitaire for the rockbox?
14:20:22SliMMhow can i limit the maximum value of random?
14:20:31LloreanSpec: There's one in the patch tracker, I believe
14:20:41LinusNSliMM: use the modulo operator
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14:21:05Rodanwow. last time i was here there were only 14 people in the room
14:21:12SliMMLinusN: i don't know why i didn't think about that.. :))
14:21:30bluebrotherRodan: then this was long ago ;-)
14:21:33ZagorRodan: haha, that must have been a while ago
14:21:35amiconnUsing modulo introduces a slight statistical error unless you restrict it to powers of 2
14:21:36LinusNRodan: many many moons ago...
14:21:48LinusNamiconn: in this case it doesn't matter
14:21:55PaulJamor during a netsplit
14:22:05Rodanyes i'm still an old timer. lugging around my v.1 studio. but i have a question, pretty simple if you dont mind...
14:22:11 Quit himitsu (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
14:22:14linuxstbThere's still only about 14 people talking though...
14:22:18LinusNRodan: shoot
14:22:28RodanWhats the feasibility of upgrading Harddrive on a AV400 ?
14:22:31bluebrother14 people talking at the same time is enough IMO ;-)
14:22:40Specroolku: have you tried that out?
14:22:58roolkuSpec: yes, but not recently
14:23:01linuxstbRodan: deal with the av400 series, Rockbox doesn't.
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14:23:12PaulJamlittle question: i made a patch for myself to add the crossfeed tag, should i put this on flyspray for others even if i already know that it will not be put into the official build?
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14:23:26ZagorRodan: you've got a studio? and you use it!? you are a dying breed :-)
14:23:51Rodanactually i have about two, and a v.1 recorder (which i use most)
14:24:30*Rodan stores up a lot of nimh AA's for road trips
14:24:32jhMikeSlinuxstb: I know why there were no problems before. lcd_clear_display was called on the video thread and that did the flush.
14:24:56SliMMdoes the lcd_framebuffer content change only after lcd_update is called?
14:24:56B4gderPaulJam: there's not been a clear agreement yet, but chances are that we will close it rather soon if so
14:25:17linuxstbSliMM: No, lcd_update copies the contents of lcd_framebuffer to the LCD hardware.
14:25:20PaulJamok, thanks
14:26:16jhMikeSthat and lcd_update
14:26:38linuxstbjhMikeS: Ah, OK. BTW, the comments in the code about putting some variables in iram causing problems on the ipod are very likely due to the bss clearing bug that's been fixed. The symptoms I got were very similar to what was reported on the Sansa, but I never managed to isolate the real problem.
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14:27:05jhMikeSso I can put them back there? they really should be
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14:27:21jhMikeSI also mutexed the file buffer
14:28:04amiconnZagor: Why not use a studio? It still has better sound (on headphone out) than many of the newer targets
14:28:20tucozmarkun, i think you can go with ryanair from paris from 18/5 to 21/5 for 60EUR
14:28:25amiconnIt's not as good as the recorder though
14:28:53Zagoramiconn: I didn't say he shouldn't use it. it's just that we don't see many studio users around here.
14:29:07*amiconn is a (partial) studio user too
14:29:09tucozmarkun, but i guess that excludes some extra cost such as long bus-trips to and from airports located far from paris and stockholm
14:29:14Zagormost studio owners use them as paper weights :-)
14:29:28B4gdertucoz: I think the airbus prices are about the same in Sweden at least
14:30:20jhMikeSI added a cache flush in load_context that flushes the cache the first time a thread runs...I can't seems to crash it anymore
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14:30:39tucozB4gder, ok. unavoidable then
14:30:42*jhMikeS keep interchanging flush and invalidate
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14:31:08Rodanok ty guys
14:31:24pondlifejhMikeS: That shouldn't impact on performance much, right?
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14:32:20jhMikeSno, it jumps over that code and actually executes fewer instructions
14:32:33Lloreanpondlife: Even if it did, stability>performance I think. :)
14:32:34 Quit hiho (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:32:40pondlifeOf course
14:32:52jhMikeSno more screen garbage either
14:33:08Specdoes anyone have the ipod video rockbox simulator?
14:33:28pondlifeFor Windows?
14:33:35Specwinrar really doesn't like the .zip file on
14:33:47Specyeah, can you emulate rockbox on linux?
14:33:51pondlifeAh, I was about to point you there
14:34:02LloreanSpec: It's not emulated, it's just a user interface simulation.
14:34:03tucozB4gder, my concern was mainly that there are sometimes additional hidden costs with these cheap airline tickets
14:34:09LloreanSpec: Try using a different program, like 7-zip
14:34:10B4gdervery true
14:34:28SpecLlorean: ah
14:34:32B4gderthey even tend to charge for "credit card" expenses
14:34:37jhMikeSthe problem with starting a thread on the COP in a plugin is the the thread function becomes a plugin entrypoint in effect
14:34:40B4gderryan air does at least
14:34:54tucozreally? well, ryanair is in a league of their own
14:35:04B4gderyeah, and credit card is the only way to pay ;-)
14:35:19B4gderthat's actually a violation of lots of rules/laws
14:36:07tucozis it allowed in sweden to not list the actual price? i mean without the hidden costs such as credit card expenses?
14:36:34B4gderand the credit card companies don't allow companies to charge for using their cards
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14:36:52jhMikeSsame as the US
14:36:54B4gderother than a minor charge I mean
14:36:59tucozI bought a pizza here in norway, and the guy charged me 20NOK for using a CC
14:37:13tucozi found that quite...unusual
14:37:30tucozi never went back
14:37:31Specso there's no virtual harddrive-based-music-player-device-thingy that you could run rockbox on?
14:37:39B4gderI remember a friend being refused to pay in norway with his CC due to it being "a swedish credit card"
14:37:45jhMikeScall the CC company...they probably would admonish him quite severely...and there's no minimum charge either...they sometimes claim that too
14:38:07B4gderSpec: virtual?
14:38:43Speclike virtualbox or qemu
14:38:45pondlifeSpec: There are the devices and their simulators (which will run on any OS that supports SDL)
14:38:53tucozjhMikeS, probably. do you know if that minimum charge is a global rule?
14:39:29jhMikeSthat I don't know for sure but I don't think they vary their rules barring local laws
14:39:36Specsimulators for the wps?
14:39:52jhMikeSthey want people to use their product the same way anywhere as much as possible
14:39:55tucozjhMikeS, you are probably right. sounds strange to have a minimum charge in any case.
14:39:58B4gderSpec: for the whole rockbox
14:40:00linuxstbSpec: The Rockbox "UI simulator" is simply Rockbox compiled as a native PC application.
14:40:28SliMMhow can i stop executing something in the linux shell?
14:40:49Lloreantucoz: There's no minimum charge, but many stores institute one because they have to pay a transaction fee to the credit card company, and don't want to actually lose money on the total transaction.
14:41:17jhMikeSLlorean: I still think it's against the merchant agreement and can get them in trouble
14:42:18LloreanjhMikeS: In the US a vendor can refuse to sell to you for any non-descriminatory reason can't they, so "I'm going to lose money on this sale" is a valid one. If they lie and claim the credit cart company institutes a minimum charge though, I think that they can't do.
14:42:32Speclinuxstb: oh, so that means plugins, etc work?
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14:42:54linuxstbSpec: Yes, plugins are also compiled as native PC code - dynamically loaded libraries to be precise.
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14:43:32linuxstbSo the simulator behaves differently at a low level to real targets - hence the name "UI simulator" as it's designed for developing the UI aspects of Rockbox.
14:43:36jhMikeSsure, and I really support their right to serve anyone they want, but they are under contract otherwise
14:43:43LloreanjhMikeS: Agreed.
14:43:57*Llorean isn't a fan of credit cards anyway.
14:44:27SliMMhow should iredirect the rockboxui output?
14:44:47jhMikeSman I just can't crash the mpegplayer anymore :)
14:44:58LloreanjhMikeS: Excellent news.
14:45:16Specdoes the mpegplayer work well with the ipod video?
14:45:35LloreanSpec: It's very slow.
14:45:39Specand will rockbox ever use the broadcom video chip on the ipod video?
14:45:43jhMikeSIt seems pp must have per cpu banked memory mapped registers or this shouldn't work worth a darn
14:45:52LloreanSpec: Only if someone figures out how.
14:46:03Speci see, so that's crazy reverse engineering
14:46:12LloreanThat's one option yes.
14:46:49 Quit inversions ()
14:47:17Specoh? was there a sane reverse engineering process?
14:47:18*jhMikeS didn't add any cache stuff for iPod though...someone with an iPod should do it
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14:47:39linuxstbjhMikeS: What did you add it for then? Just the PP5024?
14:47:42LloreanSpec: No, but there are less reverse-engineery processes, like figure out a way to convince broadcom to share (equally or more insane though)
14:48:31jhMikeSI'm not sure if it should just be the same...suppose I can look into it
14:48:37linuxstbAFAIK, the PP502x are all register compatible (as far as they share features). So your code should be portable to the others.
14:48:58linuxstbe.g. there's no ATA controller on the 5024.
14:49:13linuxstbAnd the 5024 has the embedded DAC, RTC etc
14:49:21SliMMplease take a look over this:
14:49:55SliMMthis is what i get:
14:50:00SliMMWe open the real file 'archos/.rockbox/nvram.bin'
14:50:01SliMMWe open the real file 'archos/.rockbox/config.cfg'
14:50:03SliMMWe open the real file 'archos/.rockbox/fixed.cfg'
14:50:06SliMMWe open the real file 'archos/.rockbox/database_tmp.tcd'
14:50:07SliMMWe open the real file 'archos/.rockbox/tagnavi.config'
14:50:09SliMMWe open the real file 'archos/.rockbox/tagnavi_custom.config'
14:50:11SliMMWe open the real file 'archos/.rockbox/viewers.config'
14:50:11jhMikeSI wonder if the whole 0xf0000000 range isn't core mapped
14:50:12SliMMWe open the real file 'archos/.rockbox/langs/english.voice'
14:50:14SliMMWe open the real file 'archos/.rockbox/database_idx.tcd'
14:50:15SliMMWe open the real file 'archos/.rockbox/nvram.bin'
14:50:16SliMMFatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed)
14:50:17linuxstbSliMM: Stop that...
14:50:18SliMMXlib: unexpected async reply (sequence 0x69)!
14:50:25Mode"#rockbox +o B4gder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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14:51:06SliMMsorry, i thought that it was for long text
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14:53:20LloreanSliMM: "long" means 'more than 3 lines' in general
14:53:30SliMMok, sorry
14:54:32SliMMwhat's the problem?
14:54:44jhMikeSI might have to minimize the buffer locking though, that seems to cause some glitching...I think the fiq might be changed to tranfer in small chunks?
14:56:17jhMikeSthere doesn't seem much point in doing any more there than filling the fifo
14:56:19SliMMshouldn't i copy the backdrop if there is none?
14:56:43LloreanSliMM: Have you successfully run a non-modified simulator?
14:56:55SliMMof course
14:57:01LloreanIf the only changes you made are in a plugin, it shouldn't be crashing until you run the plugin.
14:57:18SliMMit doesn't crash until i run it
14:57:19LloreanAssuming the plugin is the problem which is the only code you've shared.
14:58:10SliMMb->lcd_bitmap(rb->lcd_get_backdrop(), 0, 0, 320, 240);
14:58:16SliMMrb->lcd_bitmap(rb->lcd_get_backdrop(), 0, 0, 320, 240);
14:58:37SliMMis this the problem?
15:02:17linuxstbjhMikeS: What do you mean about changing the FIQ handler? Not give it 32KB chunks in the same way as the Coldfire DMA driver?
15:04:26jhMikeSyou don't want to be waiting around forever there
15:06:28jhMikeSbut the fiq handler can break it into small chunks...I mean if you're in the FIQ then no other code is running on that CPU right?
15:10:02***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:11:02SliMMlol, sorry
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15:14:34linuxstbjhMikeS: The FIQ doesn't wait around forever - it just fills the fifo (which I think is no more than about 32 words) and then returns. A FIQ interrupt is fired when the fifo is almost empty.
15:14:54SliMMhere are the results: 43 alpha ticks and 2 normal ticks.. pretty slow
15:15:21linuxstbFIQs also run with their own banked set of registers, and there is no stack activity unless the get_more() function is called.
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15:17:55Specroolku: does the spider solitaire come with rockbox or do you have to get it seperate?
15:19:20SliMMand by the way, rb->lcd_bitmap(rb->lcd_get_backdrop(), 0, 0, 320, 240); was the problem
15:19:35SliMMwhen i set a backdrop it didn't crash anymore
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15:20:49jhMikeSyes, I know about banked registers...but I guess I'm missing the part where it breaks up the size returned by get_more
15:21:14jhMikeSbut I am doing too many things at once right now :P
15:22:00jhMikeSah never it :P it returns when FIFO_FREE_COUNT < 2
15:22:48linuxstbYes. Ideally we would send larger chunks via get_more - to reduce the number of times the FIQ handle has to save state on the stack and call get_more.
15:22:49PaulJamSpec: you'll propably have to compile it yourself.
15:22:56amiconnBagder: Either update arm-elf-gcc on to 4.0.3, or take this server out for arm builds
15:23:05B4gderupdate in progress
15:23:06amiconnSee what it has done to the mini2g build...
15:23:12B4gderold news ;-)
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15:23:58jhMikeSthen you'd have to wait for it to play the extra data, right cause when the fifo fills I take it it blocks until theres free space?
15:24:48linuxstbjhMikeS: It doesn't block, it just returns when the fifo is full and is started again by the next "fifo empty" interrupt.
15:25:41SliMMmarkun: so, alpha drawing is 22 times slower
15:25:55markunok :)
15:26:12linuxstbSo turns a gigabeat into an ondio...
15:26:32SpecPaulJam: is there a guide to do so?
15:26:38SliMMmarkun: i also used the alpha bitmap function :P
15:26:47B4gder22 times is a lot ;-)
15:27:01SliMMit is at least for animations
15:27:09linuxstbSliMM: Now you need to optimise...
15:27:38jhMikeSlinuxstb: I meant if you tried sending more than the FIFO size before returning it would have to block
15:27:56SliMMlinuxstb: this could be a challange
15:28:42SliMMSpec: are you a windows user?
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15:28:52linuxstbjhMikeS: I don't understand what you're saying. Why would you want to send more than the FIFO size? The current code doesn't do that.
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15:29:56jhMikeSwell, you said if would be better to save context switches...hypothetically.
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15:31:44jhMikeSbut it must block once the fifo fills so it would be pointless... I'm just getting a grip on what's going on there.
15:32:04linuxstbThe FIQ handler never blocks, if that's what you mean.
15:32:53jhMikeSright, cause it stops when the fifo fills or otherwise it would
15:32:56linuxstbThe FIQ interrupt is fired when the FIFO is almost empty. The handler fills the FIFO and then returns. If the input buffer becomes empty, then get_more() is called to get a new pointer to some data to send to the fifo.
15:33:04markunint AgentAspect::ReadFapBuffer(char *buffer)
15:33:04markunint fapnum,frameind;
15:33:04DBUGEnqueued KICK markun
15:33:04markun// int **isfeatpnt;
15:33:05markunint **fapmask;
15:33:29jhMikeSright, I understand I'm to do it using DMA instead
15:33:41markunThundercloud: yes, for face animations :)
15:34:53SpecSliMM: err, i'm currently using my gf's laptop which is windows, but i'm by no means a windows user
15:35:42 Quit pearldiver (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:36:41SliMMwell i am, and for comipling rockbox on windows, you should spend some time downloading the vmwareplayer and the rockbox development environment
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15:37:36Speci was thinkin' about ssh'n over to a linux comp and scp'ng the zip back
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15:38:22SliMMyou need to install the compilers
15:38:29linuxstbSpec: Are you planning on using the simulator?
15:38:40SliMMrockbox development env already has them installed
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15:39:14Specrunning vmwareplayer on this laptop would be too slow for me to bear
15:39:25Specare there linux build instructions and/or a list of required programs?
15:40:14linuxstbThe wiki should have them. But in two steps: 1) Download the Rockbox source (svn is best - see the UsingSVN wiki page); 2) Run the tools/ script which will download and install the required cross-compilers.
15:40:25Specah, that's simple :)
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15:42:51dukemanthe sansapatcher for linux refuses to admit that my sansa e200 is indeed a sansa; I assume this is because i have made it look not-so-original the last time i reformatted it. What is the partition table _supposed_ to look like for the sansapatcher to stop yelling at me?
15:43:06cropAny wiki admins here?
15:43:20 Join himitsu [0] (n=himitsu@
15:44:08cropI've changed my mind and would like to register for the wiki. I'll probably also try to describe the RB memory layout and it would be pity (also for me) if that would bring nothing to the RB community.
15:44:11linuxstbdukeman: The partition table should have two partitions - first one type 0xb, second one type 0x84
15:44:25dukemanMy forst is 0x0c
15:44:36dukemanThank you very much
15:44:53 Join Arathis_ [0] (
15:45:10dukemanDid you see rockbox on the last episode, btw?
15:45:13 Quit Arathis (Nick collision from services.)
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15:45:36dukemanNot much, but it's publicity ^^
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15:46:42croppetur: ping
15:46:52austriancoderhi all
15:47:41linuxstbdukeman: Looking at their website, they're following the annoying trend of linking to unofficial (and incorrect) install instructions....
15:47:55 Join spiorf [0] (
15:47:57markunaustriancoder: hi
15:48:23dukemanYeah, it's pretty shallow all around, but still you'd think that it might make more people interested in rockbox
15:48:40dukemanCan't be a bad thing, right?
15:49:00linuxstbPeople following wrong install instructions and then coming here for support is a bad thing...
15:49:22LloreanEspecially since following those install instructions will result on their iPod constantly data aborting
15:49:27LloreanGiving people a very, very bad first impression
15:50:59cropLlorean: could you activate my wiki account?
15:51:35 Quit Mmmm (Remote closed the connection)
15:51:40Lloreancrop: Wiki name?
15:51:58cropLlorean: SamuelKatz
15:52:51Lloreancrop: Done
15:53:24GodEaterthe NSA are on their way
15:53:30cropLlorean: thanks
15:56:01cropLlorean: what's the easiest way to convert html to wiky syntax?
15:56:10preglowmanually, probably
15:57:19 Quit PaulJam (".")
15:59:12peturcrop: the webclient doesn't really ping me...
16:00:10 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
16:00:43 Quit DataGhost ("NTOSKRNL.EXE caused a buffer overflow in System Idle Proce")
16:06:03 Part dukeman
16:11:58crop petur: ok, no problem. How can I set the vertical alignment of a table cell to top (in wiki lingo)?
16:16:01Hammer89is anyone else here experiencing audio cut-outs every nine seconds (first one at 9 secs, 2nd at 18 secs, etc) on their Sansa e200? Or is it just something wrong with my player/rockbox installation
16:16:48markunHammer89: what kind of files are you trying to play?
16:17:15Hammer89I've tried multiple... so it's not how they're encoded or anything
16:17:16markundo you have a peak-meter in your WPS?
16:17:43markunwhat about equalizer or crossfeed?
16:18:02Hammer89I can check... are those known to cause that?
16:18:33markunI guess they can, but I don't know how well rockbox runs on the Sansa to be honest
16:19:09Hammer89crossfeed was on
16:19:49Hammer89turned it off and I'm still getting drop-outs
16:20:01GodEaterany other DSP effects ?
16:20:35GodEatercrossfade, or EQ settings as markun asked
16:20:44Hammer89oh... I'll check
16:21:07Hammer89the menus also run painfully slow during audio playback
16:21:39 Quit XavierGr ()
16:21:52 Part tucoz
16:22:15Hammer89(EQ was enabled)
16:22:49Hammer89I think it was the EQ :)
16:23:00Hammer89it's running smooth again
16:24:36 Join perl|work [0] (
16:24:55linuxstbYou can either say 1) Rockbox has too many cool features for the Sansa's CPU to cope with; or 2) Rockbox isn't properly optimised for the Sansa (and other targets using dual-core CPUs like the ipods and iriver H10) yet.
16:25:05 Join funky [0] (n=repulse@unaffiliated/funky)
16:25:36markunHammer89: hopefully it will be optimized so you can use the EQ again
16:25:51linuxstbWell, Rockbox is only using 50% of the power at the moment...
16:27:53Hammer89not having an EQ isn't all that big of a deal to me... I'd rather see full USB functionality and MicroSD recognition ;)
16:28:52peturcrop: don't know no time
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16:29:51croppetur: just read on the twiki site: one can just use the standard HTML syntax for tables
16:30:41perl|workmarkun do you know more than 4000 units were sold in 24 hours
16:31:03GodEaterthis the officedepot deal on the F40 ?
16:31:04markunwhere did you read that?
16:31:52perl|workmarkun somebody from fatwallet called the warehouse
16:31:59perl|workand the deal is no more
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16:32:12perl|workall gone in one day
16:32:28perl|worki doubt toshiba knows about it
16:32:30perl|workand its a shame
16:32:31 Quit Arathis (Nick collision from services.)
16:32:34markunbut it's still listed
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16:32:50perl|workit says out of stock if you add it
16:33:02perl|workremoved from amazon as well
16:33:32markunGigabeat mania
16:34:23perl|workthey might as well release it again for a reasonable price
16:34:31perl|workbut toshiba will never do it
16:35:22markunit's too late for that
16:35:35markunalthough iriver did a similar thing with the H1xx series, no?
16:35:57 Quit crop ("CGI:IRC")
16:36:09perl|workmarkun they did
16:36:52perl|workbut i think toshiba is tied up with miscrosoft and the likes too much now
16:37:27perl|workmarkun have you seen the new gigabeats?
16:37:44perl|workwith fm broadcast feature
16:38:01markunyes, I read about it
16:38:03perl|workugly flash little bugger
16:38:03markunthe U
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16:39:28markunthe only radios I have are in on my TV-capture card in my PC and one in my iriver H120, so the broadcasting feature is not so interesting to me :)
16:39:52linuxstbYou could annoy people on the train...
16:40:47perl|worki sort of like this device
16:41:08perl|workinteresting ideas about navigation and such
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16:45:42Speccan i set rockbox to not go into hard-drive mode if the usb cable is plugged in?
16:46:10markunSpec: on most players by holding "MENU"
16:46:20markunwhile you insert the cable
16:47:09perl|workmarkun have you tried loadable icons?
16:47:15Specyeah...what if the cable is inserted and i'm turning the ipod on?
16:47:49markunperl|work: no
16:48:00perl|worki liked it alot
16:48:03perl|worka lot*
16:48:08markunI liked the screenshots
16:48:14perl|workthere's a custom set made by Eli
16:48:22markunSpec: I'm not sure if that will work
16:48:27perl|workits much easier to navigate with them
16:48:31perl|workand they look very cute
16:49:05perl|worknavigation is a blast with them
16:49:13perl|workthrough settings and such
16:49:19linuxstbSpec: No, Rockbox needs to be running for it to detect the button press. Just turn it on first, then insert the cable...
16:49:53 Join lostnihilist [0] (
16:49:55perl|workmarkun would appeal to girls for sure, tested :P
16:51:41Speclinuxstb: ah, but the ipod is dead, so i can't turn it on
16:51:49Specit seems rockbox's drain is more than my usb's charge is
16:53:48linuxstbYes, it normally is.
16:54:21linuxstbTurn the hold switch on before inserting USB - the ipod will charge, and then when it has enough charge, it will boot into the Apple firmware and continue.
16:57:00perl|workinvadrox crashes the player when you exit it and start playing music
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17:01:19roolkuperl|work: where is that custom icon set by Eli?
17:01:42 Join Rincewind [0] (
17:01:46linuxstbperl|work: You mean music playback crashes after running invadrox?
17:02:24perl|worklinuxstb exactly
17:03:24linuxstbHow exactly does it crash. And I assume by "the player" you mean your gigabeat?
17:03:36roolkuperl|work: ah, didn't check the tracker. thanks
17:04:11 Join toffe82 [0] (
17:04:39perl|worklinuxstb, yes, gigabeat. while in WPS it shows an error message in the upper left corner and locks all the buttons
17:05:00perl|workdont have the player nearby now to tell you exactly what it says
17:05:36linuxstbSo the recipe to recreate would be 1) Turn on gigabeat; 2) Play invadrox; 3) Exit invadrox and attempt music playback ?
17:05:48perl|worklinuxstb correct
17:05:58CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
17:05:58*linuxstb starts cooking
17:06:36linuxstbBTW, do other people get a false "recharge battery" message very frequently when turning on their gigabeat?
17:06:52perl|worklinuxstb yes, when the battery is low
17:07:00*petur runs off to company drink
17:07:06perl|workwell "low"
17:07:13 Quit petur ("connection reset by beer")
17:07:42markunlinuxstb: I get it a lot
17:07:47markundidn't find any pattern
17:08:00markunmaybe just a problem with the ADC?
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17:08:51linuxstbperl|work: Your recipe was a success. I get a "data abort".
17:10:04***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:10:21linuxstbAnother question, how does bootloader USB mode work on the gigabeat? I thought it was implemented, but it always seems to start Rockbox when I turn it on with USB attached.
17:10:56markunlinuxstb: you need to hold MENU while booting
17:11:08linuxstbIs there a reason for that?
17:11:17markunnot really
17:11:19linuxstbI mean why not always enter USB mode?
17:11:32linuxstbIt's useful for upgrading to new rockbox versions...
17:12:07*perl|work wishes for POWER and A to be switched
17:12:20linuxstbIs there a patch for it?
17:12:30perl|worklinuxstb nope
17:12:49perl|workbut its impossible to page scroll with the current setup
17:12:57perl|workit starts playing the track everytime
17:13:18perl|workbesides other annoyances
17:13:35linuxstbSo POWER is used for key combinations?
17:13:42perl|worklinuxstb correct
17:13:47linuxstbMeaning accidental shutdowns...
17:14:07perl|workyes, thats the best part
17:14:15*roolku uses A for shutdown
17:14:22perl|workroolku how come?
17:14:39linuxstbShouldn't a button marked "POWER" shutdown?
17:14:43perl|worklinuxstb theres a patch to switch POWER and SELECT which is very wrong imho
17:14:46roolkuI patched it, as I don't like using the same button for on and off
17:15:10roolkuand also to avoid accidental poweroff when editing text (power = shift)
17:15:24linuxstbIs there a technical reason POWER=shift?
17:15:29perl|workroolku so basically you created a patch to switch POWER and A?
17:15:36linuxstbi.e. is it the only button suitable?
17:15:40markunlinuxstb: I think it should be A
17:15:50linuxstbmarkun: So there's no hardware limitations?
17:15:54roolkulinuxstb: like I say I prefer two different buttons for on and off and also
17:16:02markunlinuxstb: all combinations are possible
17:16:10roolkuperl|work: no I only changed the shutdown button to A
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17:16:28linuxstbroolku: Fair enough...
17:16:29 Part ctaf
17:16:30markunroolku: I'll change power and A and you can keep using your patch, ok?
17:16:36roolkupower is more ergonomical for shift then A
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17:16:52roolkutry using A in the cradle - nearly impossible
17:16:59perl|workmarkun please do!
17:17:10markunroolku: don't edit text in the cradle :)
17:17:43*linuxstb hasn't removed the cradle from the box.
17:17:44roolkuwell, I'd rather have the device do what I want then do what the device wants
17:18:06linuxstbYou should install Rockbox...
17:18:20*roolku has a heavily customised rockbox
17:18:46perl|workroolku it just a matter of moving your thumb down
17:19:23perl|workyou still have to use two hands to do shift operations
17:19:26roolkuperl|work: huh? I don't operate any button with the thumb?
17:20:05perl|workhuh? thats interesting
17:20:09roolkuperl|work: the only finger that would work is the pinky
17:20:32markunperl|work, linuxstb: looks ok?
17:20:59 Quit iNSOMNiAX (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:21:22*roolku quickly makes a copy of his keymap file :)
17:21:32markunI think I should remove the { ACTION_STD_OK, BUTTON_A|BUTTON_REL, BUTTON_NONE }
17:21:45markunas it's only anoying
17:22:24linuxstbmarkun: How does that compare to the H140? I think my thoughts were something like PLAY (H140) = A (GB), STOP = POWER and AB = MENU.
17:22:33roolkuyou better update the manual as well - this is going to create havoc :)
17:22:41markunlinuxstb: yes
17:23:34markunroolku: I agree, we've waited way too long
17:23:42linuxstbYou haven't changed SELECT in the WPS though?
17:23:51markunno :)
17:23:56*roolku has a patch for that as wel
17:23:57perl|workmarkun maybe keep it just as a patch?
17:24:10linuxstbmarkun: Let's argue over that another day...
17:24:23markunlinuxstb: yes
17:24:25*roolku agrees with perl|work
17:24:31perl|workmarkun but a lot of people requested it...
17:25:24*roolku pleads for select to browse in wps
17:25:47markunwouldn't SELECT for ACTION_STD_OK be better than A?
17:26:02linuxstbYes, isn't it already?
17:26:12markunno, not everywhere
17:27:14linuxstbHmmm... Why would ACTION_STD_OK be defined in so many places?
17:27:23markunyes.. strange
17:27:41linuxstbThe older system was clearer...
17:28:32markunAnd I'm still not sure when to place something in the 3rd position of the table
17:28:39markun3rd column
17:28:40linuxstbMaybe just remove the duplicate (and different) definitions? Hopefully it would fall back to the standard context.
17:29:10markunI can try
17:29:43linuxstbOr ask jdGordon when he wakes up...
17:30:21linuxstbI don't understand why something called ACTION_STD_PREV is defined in for example the settings context - shouldn't that be called ACTION_SETTINGS_PREV ?
17:30:43markunso, what would be a consistent keymap? SELECT for ok, POWER for cancel/stop/poweroff, A as modifier ?
17:31:10perl|workmarkun, i concur
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17:31:59linuxstbSounds sensible.
17:33:42markunI'll try to clean it up a bit
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17:34:19markunand I guess ACTION_WPSAB_RESET should be ACTION_WPS_AB_RESET
17:34:51markunor even ACTION_WPS_ABRESET
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17:35:16toffe82markun: isn't it possible to have a setting for this , so you can change it the way you like ?
17:35:38markuntoffe82: no, and it becomes a support nightmare
17:35:46markunbut maybe one day we will give in :)
17:36:26toffe82I am thinking about people who doens't really care ...
17:37:03perl|workmarkun and maybe led buttons settings can be moved from debug finally, the author of that feature sort of disappeared
17:39:50markunperl|work: I mailed him last week, didn't hear a thing
17:40:03perl|workmarkun really strange, hope he's alright
17:40:13markunWe agreed how the settings should be changed before moving them out of debug
17:40:32markunlast I heard he was busy quiting his job at intel
17:41:24roolkuit would be good to be able to split the lights up to have one LED for hard disk activity and one for charging
17:42:26perl|worki think charging looked really nice with the lighting up one by one
17:47:23Nimdaemahna mahna
17:47:25Nimdaelong time no see
17:47:38markunlinuxstb: do you know for example why we have 3 times ACTION_TREE_STOP ?
17:49:20Nimdaemy ipod, upon connecting usb, powers on and boots to rockbox, then freezes...last time this happened, i had to update the bootloader, but that doesn't appear to be fixing it now
17:53:36linuxstbmarkun: It seems to be the three different ways to press A - i.e. the action happens when you press A for the first time, also on release, and also on repeat... So no, I don't understand why the second two are needed.
17:53:53linuxstbNimdae: That a known (relatively recent) problem...
17:54:44 Quit madman_ ("Leaving")
17:58:36Nimdaewas that part of the effort to get usb working?
18:00:46linuxstbNo, I think it happened the usb detection change.
18:01:04*linuxstb should try and find when it broke...
18:01:18 Quit Guile (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
18:03:10 Join Guile [0] (n=Guile@
18:05:10markunperl|work: did you try my keyboard file?
18:06:20Specanyone know of a working itunesDB -> rockbox db program/script?
18:06:22perl|workmarkun yes, it worked
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18:08:18perl|workmarkun, i have a nice 2 language layout nice
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18:12:21Spechow long do you have to hold down menu when you plug in the cable?
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18:14:23amiconnmarkun: The 3rd column in the keymap tables is the prerequisite
18:14:39 Join My_Sic [0] (
18:14:48amiconnImo it's rather simple, and in fact the same thing as the old _PRE macros
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18:16:04amiconnYou need this to distinguish between short and long presses, if you want a long press to trigger only once, or if you want to use the button both as a short press on its own and as a shift button together with other buttons
18:17:02 Part kaaloo
18:17:36markunamiconn: can you look at the gigabeat keymap and explain me some things?
18:17:39markunah ok
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18:24:13RFAneed some help with rockbox installation on an ipod nano 1stgen
18:24:24 Quit madman_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:24:26pondlifeColdSphinX: Thanks for the help with the icon bitmap patch earlier
18:24:33pondlifeIt's very nice, isn't it
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18:25:40grndslmsoo...what wasn't quite "up to par" on the sansa e200 series again? just not optimal sound quality & battery life??
18:25:57RFAcan't install ipodpatcher can someone help
18:25:57grndslmif that's it...i'll have to buy it and just rockbox it next year or something
18:27:20ColdSphinXpondlife yes it is awsome, but if I load an remoticonset in a cfg after an iconset it's overite the iconset...thats a nasty bug, because the config.cfg wites the line for the remoteiconset after the line for the iconset
18:28:35*amiconn thinks this patch still need some work before it is ready for svn
18:30:01pondlifeYep, also how does it impact binary size?
18:30:08 Join madman_ [0] (
18:30:22pondlifeMy buffer seemed somewhat smaller, but I didn't do a scientific comparison yet
18:30:25spiorfRFA, you're using windows or linux?
18:30:34RFAhi spiorf
18:30:43RFAdebian 4.0
18:31:01spiorfRFA, i found installation much easier with windows
18:31:06spiorfonly a .exe to run
18:31:28RFAyes but i havn no windows
18:31:56RFAi kicked windows last weekend
18:32:29spiorfyou followed this?
18:33:34RFAif i want ti install ipodpatcher
18:34:16RFAand type the commands in the terminal
18:34:25RFAits sucks
18:34:33RFAi have no rights
18:34:58spiorfRFA, use sudo
18:35:05RFAi have
18:35:12RFAroot terminal
18:35:39 Quit n17ikh|Lappy ()
18:36:11grndslmsoo...what wasn't quite "up to par" on the sansa e200 series again? just not optimal sound quality & battery life??
18:36:40spiorfRFA, chmod -x ipodpatcher gives no execution permission
18:36:42 Quit bluey- ("Leaving")
18:36:43spiorfit takes it
18:36:55spiorfytou haveo to do chmod a+x ipodpatcher
18:36:58spiorfnot -x
18:37:06RFAi try
18:37:16Spechow does one normally use rockbox with all the mp3s having silly-names?
18:37:26Specit makes the playlists useless....due to iTunes' randomness
18:38:36RFAok i have permission but no ipod fount
18:39:07 Quit lowlight ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
18:40:11RFA[INFO] Scanning disk devices...
18:40:11RFA[ERR] No ipods found, aborting
18:40:11RFA[ERR] Please connect your ipod and ensure it is in disk mode
18:40:11DBUGEnqueued KICK RFA
18:40:11RFA[ERR] Please refer to the Rockbox manual if you continue to have problems.
18:42:22 Quit zylche (Connection timed out)
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18:43:40spiorfRFA, same problem here
18:43:53spiorfi had to use my sister's pc with windows
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18:44:03spiorfand ipodpatcher.exe
18:44:48spiorfRFA, you can try following this
18:45:14spiorfbe careful chossing the ipod /dev/*** thing
18:45:36spiorfi deleted a partition on my hd for using the wrong device file
18:46:22RFAyes thanks
18:46:32 Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
18:47:22RFAi try it first with virtualbox Windows
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18:47:36 Quit madman_ ("Leaving")
18:48:06Specso is scrolling margins in svn currently, or is it just a patch?
18:49:24Specam i gonna want scrolling margins? and why does a margin need to scroll? =P
18:49:38ColdSphinXwhy not? ;)
18:49:56 Quit Guile ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'")
18:50:14ColdSphinXI've somethig todo...
18:50:16Specso if i make a new, and i overlay it atop my iPod right now, will all my configs be reset? :-/
18:50:38 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@
18:50:44ColdSphinXno, there should be no config.cfg in the zip
18:50:49RincewindSpec: no
18:50:54 Quit ColdSphinX ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
18:51:05Specah, excellent.
18:51:09Rincewindyou can save your config manually to be on the safe side, though
18:52:11Specis there a comprehensive list of patches that i might want?
18:54:39 Quit ceaser (Remote closed the connection)
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18:58:31bluebrotherSpec: do you really want patches at all?
18:58:31 Quit pondlife ("disconnected has pondlife")
18:59:07Specbluebrother: some of these things look neat, and they require album art and scrolling margins patches
18:59:18Specalthough really, i don't have any album art, so those i don't really need.
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19:06:20 Quit petur ("later")
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19:10:06***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:12:27perl|worknew lovely icon set
19:12:43l2eM1xthose are nice
19:15:47 Quit funky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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19:22:09bluebrothernice indeed.
19:22:24bluebrotherdid someone make nice icons for greyscale targets too? ;-)
19:23:35pixelmawhat I've been wondering about icons for greyscale targets is how they'll look like on a backdrop...
19:26:48 Quit Hammer89 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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19:29:45bluebrotherhas anyone ever used a backdrop on greyscale targets for everyday use anyway?
19:30:03bluebrotherok, I have one, but that is only the rockbox logo in a corner
19:31:21pixelmaI tried it for a while... wasn't that bad (full screen, mostly white and light grey) only switched it off recently to do some screenshots
19:32:01bluebrotherit would work better if the text wasn't transparent when inverted
19:32:22bluebrotheri.e. the hilighted entry doesn't show the backdrop colors
19:32:45pixelmabut honestly it was only to play around with it
19:35:47pixelma(and to discover that set as backdrop/clear backdrop was broken :D )
19:36:49pixelmait was only "clear backdrop"
19:38:49bluebrotherthe first time I played around with backdrops on a greyscale target I used a image that was totally inapropriate because of its colors. Had a hard time finding the "clear backdrop" entry ;-)
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19:49:26Stalwartperl|work: color icons are implemented already?
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19:52:03spiorfStalwart, you mean this?
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19:57:48CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
19:57:48*amiconn *really* wonders about fs #7026
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19:58:55amiconnHmm, in fact that's correct, but the function names are way misleading as to what the return value should be...
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20:05:50perl|workStalwart yes its a patch for now
20:06:20 Join Siltaar [0] (
20:06:22Nico_Pit's an awesome patch ! just tried it
20:06:43Stalwarti don't think eye-candy stuff should be implemented for now
20:06:48 Quit capo (Client Quit)
20:06:53Nico_PStalwart: why's that ?
20:06:56linuxstbamiconn: How could the function names be any better?
20:07:15Stalwartrockbox is still unstable, especially with dualcore enabled
20:07:22amiconnI would always expect readshort() to return a short, and readlong() to return a long
20:07:29Nico_PStalwart: it's an unrelated part of the code
20:07:30Stalwartand video support should be improved
20:07:30linuxstbIIUC, the return code just indicates if the function was successful or not.
20:07:48amiconnYes it does
20:07:52 Join Everybody [0] (
20:08:11amiconnBut other places in rockbox also have readshort() and readlong(), with return values one would expect...
20:08:18 Join capo [0] (
20:08:23linuxstbStalwart: What's video support if it isn't eye candy?
20:08:38Stalwartsometimes using rockbox i think "damn, i should rewrite everything except drivers"
20:08:42 Nick capo is now known as capo327 (
20:09:01Stalwartlinuxstb: video is demanded functionality, icons aren't
20:09:03 Quit Everybody (Client Quit)
20:09:09linuxstbamiconn: There are far too many of those functions. There are a lot in metadata.c as well.
20:09:15 Quit SirFunk (Connection timed out)
20:09:29linuxstbIt would be nice to move them into system.h or similar, like the byte-swapping macros.
20:09:35 Join Arathis_ [0] (
20:10:01linuxstbStalwart: People demand everything....
20:10:09*ender wishes he could run rockbox on his phone - the symbian interface is so slow and moving with joystick through menus isn't nowhere as nice as with rockbox
20:11:02 Join BoeMatic [0] (
20:12:01BoeMaticanybody there?
20:12:31l2eM1xlots of people
20:12:58BoeMaticthen why is nobody talking :)
20:13:25perl|workStalwart besides being an eyecandy, icons do help while navigating through menus
20:13:46perl|workjust try it
20:14:03BoeMatici have a problem with the actual rockbox release :/
20:14:16linuxstbWhich release?
20:15:09BoeMatic2007-04-13 15:43 for the iriver H10 20G
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20:16:13perl|workfunny line on amazon homepage:
20:16:14linuxstbOK.... So what's the problem?
20:16:16BoeMaticwhen i enter the database view, enter A to Z an then artists is don't see anything
20:16:24perl|workIt's iPod. It's Pink. It's Only $76.97.What's not to love?
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20:16:51BoeMaticit kinda looks like that there is no database
20:17:10perl|work(it was about ipod shuffle btw)
20:17:25BoeMaticthe same with albums
20:17:30davinarockbox on the ipod shuffle - cool ;)
20:17:39bluebrotherBoeMatic: sounds like your database is broken
20:18:05bluebrothermaybe you updated from a build that was before the last changes to the database file format got committed ...
20:18:17 Join crop [0] (i=95e13cd9@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
20:18:25BoeMaticwell my last update was in march ...
20:18:32BoeMaticbeginning of marcg
20:18:43l2eM1xi wish the A to Z had a Songs part too
20:18:52bluebrotherI'm not completely sure, but I think there was a change i between
20:19:05bluebrotherl2eM1x: create one yourself ;-)
20:19:08spiorfl2eM1x, edit tagnavi.conf to get one
20:19:08BoeMaticok.. so what can i do?
20:19:19l2eM1xroger that
20:19:28BoeMatici already deleted these database files in the .rockbox directory
20:19:32bluebrotherreinitialize the database
20:19:50bluebrotherif you deleted that files you need to do that anyway.
20:19:55PaulJamafaik the database knows if the files are incompatible because of changes and asks to initialize.
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20:20:42amiconnmarkun: Is there a specific reason why fs 6342 isn't committed yet?
20:21:13cropamiconn, linuxstb: could you please tell me why IRAMORIG is defined with different values in and in Is a part of rockbox's IRAM preserved even if the plugin uses IRAM?
20:21:42linuxstbIRAM is split in half - half is used for core Rockbox, half for plugins/codecs.
20:22:00amiconnYes, iram is split (evenly) between core and plugins/codecs, on targets which have enough iram
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20:22:29amiconnTargets with a very small amount of iram use it in the core only
20:22:30BoeMatici think it doesn't work...
20:22:53blacknesshave there been any changes to the recording kills playback bug?
20:23:01cropAh... So RB only uses a half of what would be possible? Even if no plugin uses IRAM?
20:23:05linuxstbamiconn: What do you think about removing the return values from readlong and readshort, and performing the necessary checks in the main code. Most of the main code is a sequence of unconditional readshort/long calls, so one check at the start of the block would be sufficient.
20:23:36amiconnSounds like a good move
20:24:04linuxstbOK, I'll give it a go. Could be my first chance at code-sixe reduction....
20:24:47spiorfthe new icon patch needs to know at compile time the width of the icons? because i tried icons on ipod nano, but icons are too close to the text
20:25:08spiorfcan i just add some pink pixels in the bmp file?
20:25:29cropDoes playback use the part of IRAM that's reserved for plugins? Otherwise why must playback stop if a plugin using IRAM is started?
20:25:41perl|workamiconn i can proof read 6342
20:25:42linuxstbcrop: Yes, the codecs use the plugin/codec IRAM.
20:26:03linuxstbcrop: Generally the only plugins that use IRAM are very large ones that also need to grab the main audio buffer.
20:26:39linuxstbOr ones like Pacbox which are very slow, meaning there isn't enough CPU anyway to decode audio at the same time as running the plugin.
20:26:51perl|workspiorf theres a default set of icons to download for compiling
20:26:56croplinuxstb: ah, so codecs/plugins don't touch the RB's iram, right?
20:27:16linuxstbWell, apart from calling core functions which use IRAM...
20:27:18croplinuxstb: thanks!
20:27:19blacknessthe only reason I ask is not becuase of convinience but for the life of my ipod.
20:27:28spiorfperl|work, yes, i used that one. the question is: can i widen that file without changing anything else?
20:27:33linuxstbBut they don't use the core iram themselves directly.
20:27:38BoeMaticnow it says database not ready...
20:27:45spiorfso that there is a gap between icon and text
20:28:01Stalwartbtw, is sansa really so great?
20:28:05BoeMaticat least when i select Track
20:28:09l2eM1xi love my sansa
20:28:13Stalwarti saw it in shops, looks nice and affordable
20:28:18perl|workspiorf oh i see, have you check the icon settings in the menu?
20:28:21l2eM1xthe firmware is shotty but that player did me great justice for 6 months
20:28:24l2eM1xbefore i got a free ipod
20:28:59PaulJamBoeMatic: have you rebooted after initialisation finished?
20:29:03Stalwarti have ipod nano for year already and it works nice except i bended back plate
20:29:10croplinuxstb: yes, I meant that they don't load any data there
20:29:20l2eM1xStalwart: Yeah those players are really weak looking
20:29:20BoeMaticwhen i select Track i can see all the songs
20:29:31BoeMaticbut when i select artist or album ... :(
20:29:31l2eM1xStalwart: like i could crush it
20:29:36Stalwartl2eM1x: at least it survived my roof running
20:30:09Stalwart4 cheap noname DAPs i used before failed in ~2 months
20:30:20Stalwartipod works for year already
20:30:41Stalwartand it runs rockbox ^_^
20:30:42l2eM1xStalwart: its a good product
20:30:43pixelmaBoeMatic: did you initialise the database and a reboot afterwards if it still says "not ready"?
20:30:53l2eM1xStalwart: I wish the scrollwheel worked better
20:30:57l2eM1xmy only complaint
20:31:28Stalwartwhat's up with scroll wheel?
20:31:32perl|worki wish ipods wouldnt sound like $10 chinese cd players
20:31:36BoeMatichow can i see if the initialising is done?
20:31:45l2eM1xperl haha
20:31:53l2eM1xStalwart: Mine works like crap with rockbox
20:31:54Stalwartperl|work: actually, it's default earbud problem, not ipods
20:32:01l2eM1xi have to scroll a TON
20:32:13perl|workStalwart actually it's ipods problem and its cheap amps
20:32:15Stalwartlook for acceleration patch
20:32:24l2eM1xas soon as i apply it
20:32:30l2eM1xif i have errors i have to un apply it
20:32:30perl|work4g has more or less decent one
20:32:37perl|workeverything else - _rubbish_
20:32:43l2eM1xbecause i cant complain with patches on
20:32:46l2eM1xso i just stay away from them
20:32:56perl|workto each his/her own i guess
20:33:00Stalwarti bought normal headphones and it sounds fine to me
20:33:04BoeMaticit's weird... i go to database/track it says not ready, i go to database/a to z / artists there is nothing
20:33:16croplinuxstb: Have we (I mean you or other core devs) experienced problems with insufficient IRAM size in RB? Why is divided 50/50? Couldn't it be 60/40? Or even dynamic?
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20:33:59pixelmaBoeMatic: it should be ready when the little hd icon in the right corner of the status bar disappears
20:34:32BoeMaticok now i did a reboot
20:34:35perl|workStalwart no matter what headphones, bass still sounds like somebody's tried to make a joke
20:34:49BoeMatiche said initializing database while booting
20:34:59BoeMaticbut my atists are still empty
20:35:03perl|workStalwart its just with rockbox you're able to tweak it to more or less decent stage
20:35:11l2eM1xperl|work: i have never noticed that
20:35:21BoeMaticbut now i can see all the tracks in database/tracks
20:35:21l2eM1xim an audiophile i guess too
20:35:45perl|workl2eM1x ever listned to ipod's OF with decent headphones?
20:35:58l2eM1xi never used ipods firmware
20:35:58perl|worki see
20:36:06l2eM1xthe second i got it i rockboxed it haha
20:36:49 Join qwx [0] (
20:40:01toffe82does anyone know this player zvue ?
20:40:12croplinuxstb: are you still here? Why is DRAMORIG also defined with different values? In, STUBOFFSET is added but in it is not
20:40:16toffe82check this
20:40:35markunamiconn: the reason I didn't commit it was because it changed so much that I wasn't sure what he was doing. After that I forgot about it.
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20:43:27markuntoffe82: interesting
20:43:43toffe82indeed, good analysis
20:44:05toffe82just missing to load rockbox on it
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20:45:38 Part kretender
20:46:03cropCould someone confirm this behaviour? When the playlist naturally ends and playback has stopped, selecting "View current playlist" in the menu does nothing, not even a splash. Is it ok?
20:46:04BoeMaticdo i need that rockbox.h10 file?
20:46:09 Quit ndoak ()
20:46:32markuntoffe82: so at least it's possible to use the JTAG interface on some i.MX31 devices
20:46:48l2eM1xcrop: this happends to me also
20:46:54l2eM1xspeaking of playlists
20:46:56capo327rockbox discussed on
20:47:03toffe82markun: I wish I have some more time
20:47:19l2eM1xis there a way to have shuffle on, and if you pick a song play the song and return to the playlist?
20:47:34toffe82markun: seems to be a good platform to play with
20:47:45cropl2eM1x: care to file a bug? I have to levae in a minute.
20:47:55l2eM1xim not sure how to
20:48:34 Quit BoeMatic ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
20:48:40 Part crop ("Bye")
20:48:56l2eM1xi cant log into flyspray ever so no
20:48:59l2eM1xwoops your gone
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20:51:03toffe82markun: I see if I can get a cheap one, there is a new one now the zvue260, so I think I can find the other one cheaper ;)
20:51:59markuntoffe82: or maybe you can convince him to buy a Gigabeat S :)
20:53:05 Quit lodesi (Remote closed the connection) there a frozen bubbles for the rockbox?
20:54:54LloreanSpec: Try looking in the manual before asking some of these questions, please
20:55:00PaulJamSpec: like this?
20:55:09 Join lodesi [0] (
20:55:49Specah, i didn't know bubbles was frozen bubbles, i searched for frozen
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21:02:53 Quit ColdSphinX^ ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
21:05:36Stalwartzomft, pink zune
21:05:59*Stalwart closes browser tab faster
21:06:02markunI read something about a virus for ipod linux..
21:06:27Stalwartyeah, i think kaspersky lab wrote it
21:07:01scorchemarkun: dont worry...we are immune =)
21:07:24*scorche watches an AV plugin request go up in the tracker
21:10:10***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:12:03 Quit blackness ()
21:12:37lexmarkun: url :o
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21:14:16lex :o
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21:18:10markunlex: thanks
21:18:37lexmy friend read about it too
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21:25:52rifficis there a way to get the music i added to my ipod via the filesystem that I can play in rockbox, is there a way to get that stuff to show up in the ipod firmware as well?
21:26:04rifficwithout loading it twice
21:26:16rifficlike a rebuild the ipod database feature?
21:26:32rifficsome reason that is really hard to google for
21:26:33l2eM1xyes there is something for that
21:26:39l2eM1xsomething like tunesToDb
21:27:06l2eM1xheres a link
21:27:15rifficoh nice
21:27:26l2eM1xgood luck
21:28:18markunlex: doesn't he want to opposite?
21:28:33l2eM1xyou know what your right
21:28:37l2eM1xi read that wrong
21:28:49rifficyeah thats what I was thinking
21:28:55rifficI'm looking for the other way around
21:29:05rifficnot that I don't love rockbox
21:29:05 Join AceNik [0] (n=AceNik@
21:29:12l2eM1xyeah no i understand
21:29:12rifficbut all my music is already on the filesystem
21:29:16markunI think tere are proprams who can build the ipod database
21:29:23l2eM1xi think what youll have to do eventually
21:29:29l2eM1xis do it with itunes
21:29:31AceNikhey is it possible to give different colors to different text in a wps
21:29:33 Join freqmod [0] (
21:29:36l2eM1xand then use this to convert it to rockbox
21:29:53l2eM1xbecause I think if there were a converter youd be using double the amount of space then youd want to
21:30:25l2eM1xyou see what i mean?
21:30:33rifficyeah =/
21:30:49l2eM1xbecause iTunes we dont have the source to
21:30:53l2eM1xor ipod firmware should i say
21:34:14 Quit Rincewind (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:34:50linuxstbriffic: The Apple firmware is very fussy about filenames, so in general you can't do what you want. I think the best you can do is to use programs to sync to your ipod that generate slightly less bad names than itunes does, but I've never tried them.
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21:38:24 Part AceNik
21:38:35capo327what mp3 format is better? cbr or vbr?
21:38:43 Join AceNik [0] (n=AceNik@
21:39:31linuxstbGenerally vbr
21:41:14capo327which takes up less space, 160kbps vbr or 128kbps cbr?
21:42:10linuxstbThe 128kbps files...
21:42:27perl|workcapo327 i would suggest to dump both and use a lame preset
21:42:35perl|worklike "-V2 new"
21:43:00capo327where can i do that? i dont see it in mediamonkey
21:43:21AceNikperl|work: like "-V2 new" how is that can you point to some documented page with more info
21:43:40perl|workAceNik sure, hold on
21:44:14peturhrmmm up to what level does jewels go?
21:44:21perl|workcapo327 but dont reencode what you already have in a compressed format of course
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21:46:42Lloreanpetur: I think your level is just Score/100+1, I don't think it changes gameplay any.
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21:47:11capo327have to. rockbox doesnt support wma
21:47:15 Quit FOAD ("Lost terminal")
21:47:26peturmy wife is at level 9 and counting... must buy another target ;)
21:48:10capo327all my music's in wma
21:48:24AceNikuys anyone checked out the doom cheat s patch
21:48:27*petur has a cunning plan and creates a custom jewels version with a time limit
21:49:12perl|workcapo327 oh thats very unfortunate
21:49:30 Quit madman_ (Client Quit)
21:49:45perl|workwma doesnt sound too good initially
21:50:30perl|workdont go too crazy with the lower bitrates to kill the quality even further
21:51:15*Llorean would just spend the extra time to re-encode from CDs.
21:51:45capo327ok, so if they're at 96kbps wma what bitrate do you suggest i convert them to in mp3?
21:52:29AceNikperl|work:currently all my mp3 is conevrted to 128kbps is that bad , or wat ur suggesting is better
21:52:37perl|workid suggest to just trashbin them
21:52:51perl|workand rerip the CDs, find other sources etc
21:53:03perl|workat 96 kbps, wma just kills music
21:53:19LloreanAceNik: There isn't really a "bad"
21:53:23LloreanIt's all based on what sounds okay to you.
21:53:25perl|workAceNik do you have access to the CDs you converted them from?
21:53:58LloreanFor many ears, a good ~128kbps VBR rip will sound transparent.
21:54:14AceNikperl|work: no , its all free , im in dia there is no license issues here , just download
21:54:49perl|workwhat Llorean said
21:54:59perl|workif it sounds good to you, just leave it as it is
21:55:21capo327k, thanks
21:55:36LloreanYou can't make lossy files into better quality files, so if it's originally in a lossy format (like MP3) you should never, ever convert unless something forces you to.
21:55:39AceNiki was just wondering if ther is any possible better codec , that makes the music ompress smaller & with more punch to the music
21:56:20linuxstbpetur: You could insert some subliminal messages into jewels...
21:56:22 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
21:56:37LloreanAceNik: Compression should not change the overall way music sounds unless something has gone wrong.
21:56:53peturlinuxstb: I managed to convince her to quit, level 11 ;)
21:57:33perl|workLlorean nice to see the merchandise store. maybe its a good idea to organize a rockbox t-shirt design compo?
21:57:45 Part AceNik
21:59:28Lloreanperl|work: Right now it's just a cafepress shop, there's not really much "design" that can go into the shirt
22:00:30perl|workLlorean they only allow to submit a logo?
22:01:02LloreanBesides, any merchandise should have the official logo on it.
22:01:13LloreanNot one of these "you should use this logo instead" ones.
22:01:45perl|workthat can be a competition requirment
22:01:55LloreanYou can also put an image on the back of the shirt though, so something could be done about that.
22:02:05LloreanI do really like keeping it very simple though.
22:02:07*Llorean shrugs
22:02:10*amiconn wonders what the padding block size of .mi4 is
22:02:34l2eM1xi was wondering the same thing amiconn
22:02:37amiconnBinary size doesn't really change for h10 and sansa since the mi4 move
22:02:39l2eM1xjust was like "Hmm"
22:02:57 Quit joa ("( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )")
22:02:59amiconnlinuxstb: Nice green line, btw :)
22:04:55perl|workLlorean one idea i had to put like graphical outlines of all the players, icons like images, rockbox support
22:05:10perl|worktogether with the logo of course
22:06:14 Join IPOD80GB55G [0] (
22:06:19IPOD80GB55Gjustice 4 my peoples
22:06:20amiconnperl|work: "collector's edition": Each version showing a different target ;)
22:06:58perl|workamiconn haha
22:07:00markunIPOD80GB55G: who are your peoples?
22:07:26IPOD80GB55GThe neglected, the unwanted, the unattended
22:07:46l2eM1xoh i had a funny joke right there but i woulda got banned
22:08:05IPOD80GB55GWhat good is a forum for digital communication if you can't use it to communicate
22:08:12IPOD80GB55Glet's hear your funny joke sir
22:08:18l2eM1xno ill get banned but its funny
22:08:21l2eM1xjust laugh
22:08:41markunl2eM1x: maybe you can PM him?
22:08:51IPOD80GB55GI have quite a bit of cachet with freenode admins, you will not be banned sir
22:09:01IPOD80GB55Gmarkun, jokes told in secret are malicious, evil things
22:09:09IPOD80GB55GTrue humour is for all!
22:09:20markunwhat about German humor?
22:09:21LloreanIPOD80GB55G: If you get along with the freenode admins, maybe you're the sort who respects channel guidelines?
22:09:29preglowyes, then enough of that
22:09:31LloreanIPOD80GB55G: It would be much appreciated if you attempt to respect ours.
22:10:50IPOD80GB55GThis is as politely as any man can be expected to communicate Llorean
22:11:10IPOD80GB55Gmarkun- german humour?
22:11:12perl|workLlorean sort of this style:
22:11:15 Join Alonea [0] (
22:11:27LloreanIPOD80GB55G: I had no concern with your politeness, solely your chosen topic of discussion. Neither humor nor communication are relevant Rockbox discussion.
22:12:14IPOD80GB55GWell that would clear up a lot.
22:13:02Lloreanperl|work: I was thinking more like this, but without the button labels: . One of the shirts (maybe the dark one) could have a variant for each target.
22:14:04perl|workLlorean well, this what the competition might be for
22:14:13perl|workgood for*
22:14:37preglowperl|work: what are those for?
22:14:40preglowthey're pretty nice
22:14:48perl|workpreglow just dock icons
22:15:08perl|workfor OS X like programs dock
22:15:13l2eM1xi hate how the sansa has to refresh the database
22:15:20l2eM1xcouldnt they just learn to program the correct way
22:15:34perl|workpreglow that artist has a version with different players not just ipods
22:15:42midkayl2eM1x: it's not an incorrect way, it's just a different way.
22:15:46preglowperl|work: got any urls for those? can't seem to find any kind of index
22:15:52perl|workpreglow hold on
22:15:55l2eM1xmidkay- its just terribly innefficient
22:16:14 Quit Alonea ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
22:16:23l2eM1xit takes me 2 minutes to refresh a database when I didnt add any new files
22:16:27l2eM1xi hate this silly firmware
22:16:36midkayl2eM1x: how often does that 2 minute refresh take place?
22:17:01l2eM1xevery time I charge the player
22:17:46peturLlorean: just look out for copyright issues, I don't know if you're allowed to use a pic of an mp3 player as design on a t-shirt
22:18:03preglowmuch niceness
22:18:07l2eM1xand now im wondering why it doesnt show up in my computer
22:18:24perl|workpetur thats why i said "outlines"
22:18:24l2eM1xthis players original firmware is what brings this player down
22:18:30perl|work"graphical representation"
22:18:47preglowl2eM1x: good thing you're here, then
22:18:50l2eM1xif they took the time to write a good firmware they would have so much more customers
22:18:55 Join moos [0] (
22:18:58l2eM1xyes of course
22:19:02Lloreanmidkay: If you're in MSC mode, the database refresh is ridiculous, it can take quite a very long time each reboot.
22:19:04l2eM1xi cant stand that regular firmware
22:19:37midkayLlorean: interesting..
22:19:42 Join FOAD [0] (
22:19:52Lloreanmidkay: If you're in MTP it builds the database as you transfer
22:19:58preglowpeople using flash for images should be hanged by the neck
22:20:05LloreanMSC doesn't, instead taking as much as 7-10 minutes to rebuild
22:20:24midkayLlorean: that's not good.
22:20:25l2eM1xand I cant write programs to transfer in MTP mode so i dont use it
22:20:48l2eM1xbecause I wrote a program to correct tags for my MP3 player as they transfer
22:21:26midkayl2eM1x: neat, but why not just correct them all beforehand, at once?
22:21:30Lloreanmidkay: I suspect they just didn't care much about MSC mode
22:21:49l2eM1xmidkay:because I dont like to that format on winamp or otherwise
22:21:59l2eM1xdont like to have that *
22:22:20midkayl2eM1x: what *? you add a *?
22:22:26midkayLlorean: sounds like.. :)
22:22:29l2eM1xi wrote my first sentence incorrectly
22:22:40l2eM1xbecause I dont like to have that format on winamp or otherwise
22:23:34l2eM1xfor example, original sansa firmware is very picky about id3 tags
22:26:19l2eM1xhere we go with the refresh again X-(
22:26:33l2eM1xhow the heck am I going to be able to do a WPS with this
22:27:34l2eM1xalmost half way done
22:27:36midkayperl|work: i remember that being posted to the mailing list almost like 3 years ago...
22:27:49PaulJaml2eM1x: you could use the uisimulator
22:27:50perl|workblast from the past
22:28:01l2eM1xPaul but the WPS doesnt work
22:28:12l2eM1xbecause it tries to load some dll or something incorrectly
22:29:04midkayperl|work: yeah, did you see it get posted then? :)
22:29:07l2eM1xthis is why I am creating a WYSIWYG
22:29:11l2eM1xor hope to
22:29:56amiconnThe sim just needs sdl.dll to run
22:29:58midkayi made this quite some time ago.. i'll have to replace that screen with a rockbox logo or something, when i finish/update it. :)
22:30:17amiconnOther than that only standard windows libraries are used
22:30:20perl|workmidkay actually somebody forwarded me that picture and i think that was the 1st time i found out about rockbox
22:30:37midkayperl|work: haha, cool.
22:32:38l2eM1xi cant find the uisimulator?? i just got it yesterday
22:32:48l2eM1xwhat page is it on again?
22:33:03l2eM1xgot it
22:33:06 Quit Rincewind (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:33:51 Join bluebrother^ [0] (i=G0QOpXe8@rockbox/staff/bluebrother)
22:33:55 Quit bluebrother ("leaving")
22:34:52l2eM1xhow do you sign off irc with a goodbye message?
22:35:24preglow/quit goodbye world
22:35:24midkay/quit this is my message
22:35:29bluebrother^you issue /quit something
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22:37:13perl|workmidkay nice render
22:37:35midkayperl|work: thanks :)
22:37:47perl|workmidkay do a t-shirt design!
22:37:56perl|worki can render some too
22:38:22midkayperl|work: nice idea, too bad 3dsmax isn't really set up right now.. damn. soon.. :)
22:38:36perl|worki can do a gigabeat model
22:38:40midkayand i have a devcon logo for this year... wish i'd submitted it earlier so that it could maybe be used on t-shirts if they wanted...
22:39:36 Quit funky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:39:42amiconnpreglow: Did you check out fs #6705? There is a comment from you just saying that you posted to the wrong fs entry...
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22:42:33 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
22:42:47preglowamiconn: yes, i was trying to post to the vorbis opts patch
22:42:56preglowamiconn: and yes, i did try some of it and found it to have no gains on nano
22:43:05preglowamiconn: but i think i got bitten by the codec build system bug there
22:43:46amiconnSomething is definitely fishy regarding codec building
22:44:04preglowdamned annoying
22:44:06 Quit Febs ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
22:44:17amiconnI didn't experience the effect that too little is rebuilt yet, but on the simulator codecs are relinked everytime...
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22:44:42preglowi think i've been hit by the too little being rebuilt a lot
22:44:53preglowprobably wasting a ton of work too, since i wasn't aware of it
22:45:02perl|workLlorean here?
22:45:28l2eM1xhe was
22:45:36preglowamiconn: but yes, that patch probably should be commited
22:46:01l2eM1xfor the sansa the Rockbox boot screen doesnt do it justice
22:46:01Lloreanperl|work: Only semi
22:46:13preglowi was just planning on testing it personally before commiting it myself, but haven't found myself in my rockbox tree too much lately
22:46:19perl|workLlorean what do you think about putting nice 3d renders on the t-shirt?
22:46:57perl|worklike midkay posted
22:47:02 Quit FOAD ("I'll be back")
22:47:51LloreanI'm really not planning anything specific with it, I just wanted to get some things out there so that the next time people asked "Why isn't there a Rockbox shirt" I could say "Over there"
22:48:02LloreanComing up with a better one is fine, as long as mostly everyone is okay with it.
22:48:15perl|workLlorean gotcha
22:50:05perl|workLlorean amy player you'd like to see rendered?
22:50:15perl|workin particular
22:52:20perl|worki think just putting an ipod with rockbox logo across its screen is a very strong "image" by itself hehe
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22:53:02perl|worksort of a counterculture
22:54:20LloreanPeople already far too often think it's Rockbox is an iPod thing.
22:54:45LloreanIn the end, I'm not 100% sure I like the idea of images of players on the shirt anyway, but as I said, I'm open
22:56:03perl|workLlorean really? do they assume its some sort of an utility offered by apple?
22:56:13LloreanNo, they just assume it's iPod-specific.
22:56:18perl|workoh i see
22:56:20l2eM1xno its true
22:56:25l2eM1xeveryone has ipods regardless
22:57:59preglowi'd rather just have the rockbox logo on a shirt
22:58:03preglowbut preferably a new logo :>
22:59:22preglowthe current one looks... cluttered
22:59:46 Join brun0_ [0] (
23:01:03preglowamiconn: did you try the mpa patch?
23:01:13 Join tsuyoshi [0] (
23:01:22perl|workpreglow it does
23:01:25amiconnNo; perhaps I should...
23:01:43perl|workespecially if you look at the high res version :P
23:01:54perl|workit looks like a death star
23:02:03 Join Hammer89 [0] (
23:03:58amiconnpreglow: Btw, I don't think the rebuild problem is codec specific here; it's a general problem that always happens if a new source file implements the same function as an existing one, but as a different .o
23:04:22preglowamiconn: hmm, weird
23:04:24amiconnIn this case, both .o files will end up in the .a, and the linker uses the first one it can find
23:04:36 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
23:04:41amiconn..which is most often the one that was added first, i.e. the old one
23:04:43preglowi really don't know much about the build system
23:05:20amiconnThis isn't even rockbox build system specific, it can happen everywhere where lib*.a files are used
23:07:33amiconnI just realised that this problem is familiar while skimming through mpa.patch: it implements functions in new (asm) files
23:08:19amiconnBut libmad.a will contain the old objects unless you either do a full rebuild or at least kill libmad.a and all apps/codecs/libmad/*.o files before 'make'
23:10:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:11:26l2eM1xwhat was the first system rockbox was on
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23:13:20preglowl2eM1x: archos recorder, i think
23:13:22preglowat least something archos
23:13:40l2eM1xany idea how long ago that was?
23:14:29dionoeawasn't the player the first target ?
23:14:31 Join FOAD [0] (
23:14:43l2eM1xdionoea: the player?
23:14:46preglowdepends what you mean
23:14:48preglow2002-06-01: Version 1.0 is released!
23:15:12l2eM1xjesus i cant imagine sitting 5 years ago thinking about making a replacement firmware
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23:16:43dionoeaarchos player (was released like 1 year before the recorder by archos)
23:17:06dionoeathe one with the crappy charcel lcd :D
23:17:22preglowl2eM1x: well, rockbox was what you could call "feature complete" for those targets a long time ago
23:17:36pixelmaclick the "older news" link on the front page
23:17:48l2eM1xi mean i cant imagine sitting there and writing ASM for these targets etc 5 years ago
23:19:31amiconndionoea: charcell yes, but not crappy
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23:19:40dionoeaIf you say so :)
23:19:45amiconnIt's very nicely readable e.g. in car
23:19:46 Quit FOAD ("I'll be back")
23:20:13preglowi'd say
23:20:17amiconnmpa.patch breaks mpegplayer!
23:20:25preglowahh, yes
23:20:27dionoeaI've never used a Player so i can't tell :) But i own a recorder (having more than 2 lines to browse dirs seems better)
23:20:31preglowthe ever-present problem
23:24:43*bluebrother just thinks about JdGordon's last change to the credits handling
23:25:19bluebrotherwhy not show the logo always from the menu? If one wants to know the version number only this saves a disk spinup
23:25:26bluebrotherwell, if the user is fast enough ;-)
23:26:10amiconnI had a similar thought
23:26:40amiconnInstead of loading the plugin showing "Wait...", Logo+Version could be shown directly, loading the plugin in the background
23:27:03bluebrotheryes ...
23:27:29bluebrothercan this be achieved with the current plugin_load()? It does draw the splash screen, doesn't it?
23:27:40amiconnOn flash based targets it's not really interesting (and also not on mini), but on the big-hd targets it is
23:28:12amiconnSure, the plugin loader would need a 'silent' option, and also some way to delay execution
23:28:52bluebrotherlike adding a delay flag that does both: delay starting the plugin and suppress the splash
23:28:57amiconnpreglow: On mini g2 it's over by 35KB - and that's even though PP5022 has 128KB iram instead of only 96....
23:28:59bluebrothersounds good.
23:29:06 Quit freqmod (Remote closed the connection)
23:29:25amiconn0x40018908 iend = .
23:29:39preglowhow did it grow that much?
23:29:46amiconnBlah, nonsense
23:29:52preglowwell, good :)
23:29:54amiconnWe only use 96KB also on pp5022
23:29:59preglowstill plugin iram starts at 0x4000c000 and ends at 0x40018000
23:30:49amiconnSo we need to shave off 2312 iram bytes somewhere...
23:31:13amiconn(note that this is for a grayscale ipod - colour is most likely different)
23:31:14 Join DrMoos [0] (
23:31:57 Join linuxstb_ [0] (i=5343d4aa@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
23:32:24linuxstb_One idea I had in the past was stealing the codec thread stack for mpegplayer to use...
23:32:40*amiconn could cheat and give rockbox the full iram size of pp5022 :P
23:32:49 Quit moos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:32:54amiconnBut that won't help to make it committable...
23:33:33preglowwe do have per target iram defines
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23:40:10directhexrockbox has better market presence than i'd expected - spotted someone with a rockboxed h300 on the bus
23:41:19 Quit perl|work (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:41:27l2eM1xthats pretty cool
23:42:18directhexmakes a change from ipods
23:42:26moosrockbox will rules the DAP world soon ;-)
23:42:42directhexso when's the iphone port due? :p
23:42:57amiconnpreglow: Definitely an improvement. Playing a lame −−preset standard encoded album, boost ratio dropped 57% -> 49%
23:43:20Bagdermoos: you mean it doesn't already? ;-)
23:43:32l2eM1xdoes anyone know if theres a way when on shuffle if you pick a new song that the dynamic playlist wont be recreated?
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23:43:41preglowamiconn: than hooray, commiting time
23:43:46amiconnRoughly a 7% speed increase
23:43:47preglowamiconn: if there's one thing we need, it's faster mpa on arm
23:43:54moosBagder: hehe indeed, but every day more and more :)
23:44:09amiconnpreglow: Can't commit without solving the mpegplayer issue
23:44:19preglowpft! make it an oops commit in a week or so ;)
23:44:25bluebrotherdo we need users anyway? ;-)
23:44:28mooshehe :)
23:44:50amiconnI just ignored mpegplayer breaking for my personal build, since I don't need it
23:44:52Bagderbluebrother: we need them only to convert them to devs
23:45:17bluebrotherright ... forgot about that.
23:45:31bluebrotherbtw, did it work for my person?
23:45:55Bagderbluebrother: we're not done with you yet, so the evaluation results will have to wait! ;-P
23:45:56directhexi have enough developmenty things on my plate i'm too lazy to work on without adding rockbox to the list
23:46:29bluebrother"not done" sounds like there is a nasty end to reach some time ...
23:46:53Bagderit may or may not involve tar and feathers
23:47:04linuxstb_Is the mpa patch you're talking about ARM only?
23:47:47*linuxstb_ finds the task
23:47:56 Quit moos (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:48:05 Join solid [0] (n=solid@
23:48:07*bluebrother looks around where to hide
23:48:22bluebrotherI hope it's at least GNU tar *g*
23:49:29 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
23:49:53linuxstb_amiconn, preglow: What happens if you remove the asm function from iram?
23:50:08 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
23:50:09linuxstb_IIRC, icode isn't much help on PP.
23:50:34 Nick solid is now known as chopped_pork (n=solid@
23:50:46amiconnlinuxstb: On pp5002 it very probably is...
23:50:54amiconndan_a: around?
23:51:01bluebrotheramiconn, how should we handle silent load if the file is unaccessible? Show a splash or fail silently?
23:51:19amiconnFail silently, I think
23:51:20 Join moos [0] (
23:51:23*linuxstb_ regrets committing mpegplayer for greyscale...
23:51:30amiconnThe caller might evaluate the return value
23:51:42amiconnlinuxstb: Does it compile for pp5020 colour targets?
23:51:54amiconn(i.e. ipod color/photo)
23:52:04linuxstb_I'll try it now.
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23:52:55 Part directhex ("Leaving")
23:53:13Lloreanlinuxstb_: Why do you regret it for grayscale targets?
23:53:43linuxstb_We're struggling with a set of libmad optimisations that break mpegplayer due to too much iram.
23:53:53amiconnWell, rvf definitely won't have iram problems as long as libmad itself doesn't
23:54:11Lloreanlinuxstb_: We wouldn't have the struggle if it was color-only?
23:54:12amiconnrvf is so straightforward that it won't benefit from iram
23:54:39 Quit PaulJam (".")
23:54:43linuxstb_The patch adds a new function into IRAM - it can probably be removed from iram with no change in mpegplayer for PP502x targets, but not PP5002 targets.
23:54:47amiconnlinuxstb: Taking the function out of iram cuts iram size, but it's still too much
23:55:08linuxstb_Have you tested the speed?
23:55:12amiconnNot yet
23:55:52linuxstb_Llorean: I wasn't 100% serious either...
23:56:43amiconnpreglow: There's indeed a dependency problem in the codec build apart from the library problem I mentioned...
23:57:19*l2eM1x hates database refreshing
23:57:40amiconnI had to run 'make' twice to get the codecs relinked
23:58:18linuxstb_On the ipod color, even with the function out of iram, mpegplayer still 0x474 bytes too big.
23:58:46amiconnSo it's the exact same amount as on grayscale

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