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#rockbox log for 2007-04-15

00:00:43joshinjhMikeS: thanks so much for the e200 work. It is rather fun watching the port progress with each SVN commit and reading about it here.
00:02:59 Join safetydan [0] (n=dan@rockbox/developer/safetydan)
00:04:05 Quit juxtap (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:04:21 Join midgey [0] (
00:05:29 Nick Soap_ is now known as Soap (n=Soap@rockbox/staff/soap)
00:08:01 Join habana [0] (i=58a10615@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:12:29 Join AceNik [0] (n=AceNik@
00:13:08AceNikhey ive finished the programming part of my new wps based on vista , i need someone's help on the graphics
00:14:51AceNikcan anyone also uide me to make a patch for setting a menu font , & browser font , like the user decides which font he wants
00:16:36 Part AceNik
00:20:10 Quit rift ("Lost terminal")
00:21:28jhMikeSjoshin: hey np...always glad to hear things are working
00:22:08 Join Insectoid [0] (
00:24:55 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
00:29:19habanawow, i'm amazed by the work done on sansa target since one or two weeks.
00:29:31 Join Arathis [0] (
00:30:23habanaplugins are really more stable and faster than before, congrats
00:31:49 Join DarkSoul [0] (
00:32:01daniel2023i'll also chime in −− thanks to everyone for the great work on the sansa port - i love using rockbox and hang on every new development and improvement
00:32:01 Join jimbobuk [0] (
00:33:00DarkSoulyou guys should get SVN updating for rockbox
00:34:20DarkSoulthat or a little less confusing download page x.x
00:34:44InsectoidDarkSoul... We have svn...
00:35:03DarkSoulreally now
00:35:10DarkSoul*looks around*
00:35:18LloreanDarkSoul: What *exactly* are you asking for. We've been on SVN for a while, and the download page just requires you look for a picture of your device...
00:35:45habanapersonally happy with daily current build, svn is good for regular hackers
00:36:13Lloreanhabana: "Daily" and "current" are two different things
00:36:22LloreanPlease don't refer to the current build as the daily, or the daily build as current.
00:36:31DarkSoulWell right now it its hard to tell when each ipod information was actually changed.
00:36:42jimbobukhi folks... I'm on the look out for a new "mp3" player and am seriously considering buying one to mod with rockbox... whats the best actual player to use now or in the near future?
00:36:45Lloreanhabana: The daily build is only made once per day, as an archive, the current build is made every SVN update
00:37:05DarkSoulthe list tells which errors are still present and junk...
00:37:06LloreanDarkSoul: Look at the very front page of the site: See the changelog? Any time that changes, do does the current build...
00:37:46LloreanWhat does the error table have to do with SVN or dowloads? That's compiler output, and completely irrelevant to most normal users.
00:37:53habanaLlorean: o know but meant "personally happy with downloaded current build each day of my life" ;)
00:38:09Insectoidjimbobuk: Look at the different port's pages. See which are the most stable, the most featured. I personally am quite happy with my iPod 5g.
00:38:16Lloreanjimbobuk: In relationship to what's available, I'd suggest the Gigabeat F or X series
00:38:29LloreanThe iPods still have a long way to go before they're as good as the other Rockbox players.
00:38:36DarkSoulmore of the fact that i'd rather only download when something effecting overall performance or fixes+additions for ipod video not to find out when you
00:38:42DarkSoulchange anything on any system. x.x
00:38:44jimbobukthanks guys
00:38:49LloreanDarkSoul: Then learn to read.
00:39:02LloreanDarkSoul: Most things affect all targets, there are very, VERY few just-iPod changes.
00:39:23LloreanAnd it'd be a waste of developer time to spend time sorting out which changes affect exactly which targets every time any little thing changes.
00:39:38safetydanand if there are iPod specific changes, the commit message tends to mention them (or at least say "arm" or "portalplayer")
00:39:56jimbobuki'm torn really. still using my creative jukebox3 which i modded with a 60gig drive years ago.. I make binaural field recordings using it, though haven't for years... I used to be a big fan of the MPC format and may be tempted to use it on rockbox to keep sizes down... would love to mod the player with a large ~150gig ... could then be tempted to using .flac though i guess that would be a real battery hit.
00:40:31Lloreanjimbobuk: There are no Rockbox players than can be upgraded greater than 80gb and also support FLAC at the moment
00:40:44LloreanAll software codec players use either microdrives, 1.8" HDs, or flash
00:41:07jimbobukoh right, wasn't aware of that
00:41:25safetydanflac isn't much of a battery hit, though disk spinup because of larger files is
00:41:55jimbobukare quoted battery lives generally best case where potentially hardware playback of mp3 is being done, such that if i did use MPC for example, it being decoded in software would cause a hit?
00:42:06jimbobukyeah its the spin ups that would worry i guess.
00:43:08jimbobukwhy is it that software codec players use those storage types.. nothing inherent in the process just those are the machines that have the most powerful CPUs or more developed rockbox firmware?
00:43:42Lloreanjimbobuk: None of the targets that play MPC use hardware playback.
00:44:11LloreanThe players that use software playback are more modern. Modern players tend to emphasize physical player size over storage capacity.
00:45:40jimbobukright ok... I'll try to pick my way through the page of players then... to be honest I went looking for a 3.5" hdd based version to use at work.. I DO use my PC but it would be cleaner if i could use a player on my desk.. the 3.5" would allow up to 500gig .. sadly it seems no such device exists, though some can work they're mostly targeted to video playback in a hdd caddy, and as such dont really work nicely without an attached tv.
00:45:48DarkSoulYeah, im talking more of an SVN for users so they can easily update, not get all the source and everything. Something more that would update with compiled stuff.
00:46:11LloreanDarkSoul: That doesn't make *any* sense.
00:46:19LloreanDarkSoul: For a user to easily update, download the current for your player.
00:46:26LloreanHow much easier than that can you get?
00:46:28 Join TrueJournals_ [0] (
00:46:42DarkSouli have SVN which i originally got to update a game i play
00:47:01LloreanSVN is a source-code revision control system.
00:47:01DarkSoulinstead of downloading the whole file over and over again
00:47:40DarkSoulonly if you have it managed like that.
00:47:47LloreanNo, that's what it's *for*
00:47:50LloreanThat's what it was programmed to do
00:47:51DarkSouli know
00:47:57LloreanRockbox is binary files
00:48:17LloreanThe binaries would need to be redownloaded each time
00:48:20DarkSoulhow about i show you instead of trying to explain
00:48:29LloreanNo, I know what you mean
00:48:31safetydanDarkSoul: if you're talking about providing just the binary files that changed between builds that would just make things complicated.
00:48:32LloreanIt wouldn't work for Rockbox.
00:48:40safetydanGrabbing one file and unzipping all of it is much simpler.
00:48:52LloreanAny recompiled binary would seem to be a new file
00:49:07LloreanSVN would end up downloading all of Rockbox one file at a time rather than as one smaller, single ip
00:49:08DarkSouloh joy the websites down i cant show you.
00:49:15LloreanDarkSoul: You assume we're stupid.
00:49:19LloreanWe know what you're talking about
00:49:25LloreanIt doesn't work when EVERY file changes each compile
00:49:41LloreanIt only works when you can manually or automatically denote which files have changed: There is no good way to do this with Rockbox.
00:50:36DarkSoulnever mind too much work and im not in the mood
00:51:17LloreanNot in the mood to create a vast automatic system to detect changes in binary files and maintain multiple SVN branches so that only those files that are different in binary are sent to users?
00:51:56DarkSoulits more of the fact that you have to go onto the website every day check if anything worth downloading has happened
00:52:26DarkSoulinstead of just having SVN the whole file every day when i start up my computer i dont care if it download everything
00:52:41LloreanThen make a simple tool to download the .zip every day.
00:52:58LloreanGet the RSS feed of the changelog, so your RSS reader tells you if there's interesting changes.
00:53:08LloreanPick a simple solution, rather than trying to invent a complicated one.
00:53:23TrueJournals_There's a RSS feed of the changelog?
00:53:52LloreanThere's a couple
00:53:56LloreanI suggest this one: sexxxyoungcouple
00:54:15safetydanDarkSoul: stick "curl -O" in a cron job that runs daily then
00:54:17LloreanSuch is life.
00:54:31 Nick TrueJournals_ is now known as TrueJournals (
00:54:32LloreanAnyway, the one that's actually an RSS feed works nicely
00:54:40LloreanThere's an 'official' RSS feed, but I find it kinda sucks
00:54:55LloreanI want to find out who set up the site, because I want to make sure it doesn't vanish
00:55:23TrueJournalsOooohhh... that is a very nice feed :-D
00:55:29 Join Jsunu [0] (
00:55:35LloreanIt's clear and concise.
00:55:40DarkSoulExcept then i have to unzip and everything which i wont remember to do
00:55:48DarkSouland i'll end up wasting twice the bandwidth
00:56:19safetydanHah, according to that cia site, there's an average of 1.87 hours between commits
00:56:23LloreanDarkSoul: I thought you said you didn't care if it downloaded everything.
00:56:39safetydanso to ensure that you always get the latest update, your cron job should run every two hours :)
00:56:57DarkSoulYeah llorean
00:56:59Lloreansafetydan: You'll still miss one or two every now and then.
00:57:02DarkSoulif i dont unzip it
00:57:06DarkSoulthen it is wasted bandwidth
00:57:33LloreanSo make it unzip as well
00:57:39LloreanNo matter what you're going to have to copy it to the player
00:57:47safetydanDarkSoul: so what you're after is some sort of tool that will automatically update your Rockbox install? But only if there's something interesting to you?
00:58:02LloreanAnd only if his player is plugged in, apparently, so that he can't forget to copy it over.
00:59:07TrueJournalsJust an idea... couldn't you make a tool that when you plug in your player, it will update it automatically?
00:59:31DarkSoulNot exactly safety, id rather it up to date, but right now im only doing it when something interesting happens or the fact that its a month old
00:59:43DarkSoulYeah true thats kinda what i was thinking
01:00:05LloreanThen make a tool that gets the .zip and extracts it when you plug in your player?
01:00:05DarkSoulor with SVN i could of just right clicked and told it when to update.
01:00:23 Quit ender` (" Going to church does not make a person religious, nor does going to school make a person educated, any more than going to a )
01:00:40LloreanDarkSoul: SVN wouldn't work, I told you. It'd be exactly the same as redownloading the .zip, just having to download multiple files instead of one, multiple uncompressed files.
01:01:04BHSPitMonkeyLlorean, sexxxyyoungcouple??
01:01:21DarkSoulwell why would you recompile every file if nothing changed in it
01:01:23TrueJournalsPlus, with SVN you'd then have to have your computer compile it... making an all-around slower process
01:01:24LloreanBHSPitMonkey: I could go through the hassle of explaining the conversation that led to that being in my clipboard, but you wouldn't believe me anyway. ;)
01:01:25DarkSoulthen it would be the same size.
01:01:36BHSPitMonkeyLlorean, you're right
01:01:40BHSPitMonkey... proceed
01:01:47LloreanDarkSoul: The same size does not guarantee the same contents.
01:02:23LloreanDarkSoul: Rockbox uses a distributed build system. Every file is compiled fresh, because it's not always compiled on the same computer, and it ensure that changes don't get missed by bad dependencies.
01:02:43LloreanDarkSoul: So, every update, every file is "new", the only way to verify it's not new is with a checksum or binary comparison with an old file.
01:02:43safetydanDarkSoul: I'm a little confused about your statement "with svn I could just right click". Subversion is a command line program on most systems.
01:02:45DarkSoulnot quiet sure of the options on the other end of the SVN but couldnt you have last updated time instead of size
01:03:00LloreanDarkSoul: The time is always new as well, as I said.
01:03:03LloreanDarkSoul: Please, pay attention.
01:03:13LloreanThe files are "new" every build.
01:03:16DarkSoulI was in the middle of typing when you said that
01:03:23LloreanThen don't hit enter...
01:03:41TrueJournalsDarkSoul: Ah, so you only want it to even download if there's a newer build than you have?
01:04:27DarkSoulsafetydan, if you get a more complex version of SVN like TourtiseSVN, it checks each file for a later version
01:04:30LloreanBHSPitMonkey: Simply put, the easiest way to make sure you don't make a typo while setting usernames for a ban is to copy and paste that username around. :)
01:04:35DarkSouland puts an X or check mark over it
01:04:43DarkSouldepending if its up to date.
01:04:44LloreanThough this one wasn't relative to the Rockbox forums.
01:04:57DarkSoulThen you can right click on a file or folder and update it.
01:05:02TrueJournalsTrying to sort through the conversation here, you want something that will, when you plug in your DAP, check if there is a newer revision of rockbox, if there is, download it and extract it to your player, all automatically?
01:05:08LloreanDarkSoul: And it's irrelevant, it would think all the files are new.
01:05:10safetydanDarkSoul: yes... it's called typing "svn update" on the command line. Tortoise is just awrapper around the command line (or svn library) tools.
01:05:38safetydanor actually "svn status" but anyway
01:05:41DarkSoulI know safety
01:06:01LloreanDarkSoul: Does your client not have tab completion?
01:06:46LloreanWell you don't seem to type out whole names, which suggests you either don't have tab completion, or don't use it.
01:06:51LloreanTry typing safe and hitting tab.
01:06:54safetydanbasically when compiling things we can't be certain that a binary file hasn't been affected by a change so there's no easy way to say "just update speex.codec because that's all that changed" for example
01:07:32DarkSouloh yeah i know i just dont like doing that because i start to get lazy and end up saying someone else's name
01:08:28DarkSoulany people who have annoying little scripts that notify them with a beep or anything when they're name is said
01:08:47DarkSoulend up coming to check on something thats no really needed.
01:09:12LloreanDarkSoul: And people who work on things in other windows and wait for this window to flash to show you've responded don't know that you have without checking back constantly.
01:10:51***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:10:57DarkSoulLlorean Well sorry, i'll try doing this.
01:11:25safetydanSo anyway, DarkSoul, your idea seems like it would be a net win, it would be incredibly complicated to do and prone to breaking easily.
01:11:48LloreanProne to break easily, and probably put a lot more load on the SVN server.
01:12:29daniel2023kinda like windows
01:13:13 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
01:16:18safetydanit might work for other projects that have a single build server and only one or two targets, but not for Rockbox
01:17:11Lloreansafetydan: Well I imagine if a game uses it, a lot of the files are also resources, or scripts, both things SVN can manage a lot better since they're human updated rather than compiled.
01:20:10safetydanLlorean: true
01:20:36 Join odz [0] (n=vic@
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01:23:06 Quit Rincewind (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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01:27:23 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
01:29:15jimbobukLlorean, do you have a gigabeat player for your rockbox player?
01:29:31Lloreanjimbobuk: I've got several Rockbox players, one of them is a Gigabeat yes.
01:29:37TrueJournalsJdGordon: I'm glad you're here... I'm still having trouble with your loadable icons patch, and it's even worse right now
01:30:00jimbobukLlorean: heh.. what are your others? :)
01:30:18TrueJournalsI apply the patch, update my build (I even delete the .rockbox directory), but when I go to the quick menu for a bmp file, the option use as iconset isn't there
01:30:31TrueJournalsEven if I load a theme file that should change the iconset, nothing happens
01:30:35Lloreanjimbobuk: Archos Recorder V1, iHP-120, iPod Nano, Sandisk Sansa e270, and Gigabeat F40
01:30:36jimbobukLlorean: It looks good.. its not complete i gather from the page, are any ports i wonder.. not sure how you can get hold of them though, i'll start googling.
01:30:50Lloreanjimbobuk: "not complete"?
01:31:01jimbobukand u prefer the F40 over the others at the end of the day
01:31:10JdGordonTrueJournals: you have to load from the config file now
01:31:11jimbobukwell i was trying to find pages for the ports.. found the gigabeat one i think
01:31:20jimbobukand it just said some things were at less than 100%
01:31:25jimbobukLCD driver
01:31:32LloreanThat just means it's not as good as we'd like it.
01:31:53TrueJournalsJdGordon: Ah, OK, didn't realize that... but as I said, even loading from the config file seems to do nothing...
01:31:56LloreanEvery aspect of Rockbox on Gigabeat is better than the original firmware, for example. Except that you can't yet hook up digital cameras or external hard disk and browse / copy from them.
01:32:04LloreanAnd no WMA support.
01:32:05markunjimbobuk: also, we didn't really update those numbers :)
01:32:15JdGordonTrueJournals: send me your config file
01:32:27odzis there any noticable improvement with the sound quality going from apples firmware to rockbox? (5.5g video)
01:32:28jimbobukmarkun: what when things get fixed that page goes a bit stale? :)
01:33:01jimbobukcoming from the position of buying brand new, the gigabeat is the best choice tho for rockbox functionality, sound quality, battery life etc..
01:33:21Lloreanodz: Depends, Rockbox itself can't magically make the hardware better, but we do have more in the way of Equalizer flexibility
01:33:32markunjimbobuk: yes, but it doesn't have radio and recording
01:33:59jimbobuki've done some googling and noticed that there is a variety of options for supporting submitting your playing habits to this would be a nice feature for me as i listen at work and my handle goes stale with no updates.
01:34:19Lloreanjimbobuk: Rockbox has support, yes.
01:34:21 Quit himitsu ("Leaving")
01:34:48JdGordonTrueJournals: icons must be in /.rockbox/icons/
01:34:52jimbobukmarkun: radio and recording may interest me, but perhaps even in another player.. tbh my jukebox3 will hopefully still work, and it works recording into 48khz PCM.. its only really its form factor and battery life (even with the two batteries) thats a bit lacking
01:34:59JdGordonand the icon height setting isnt needed anymore
01:35:05TrueJournalslet me try that
01:35:10PaulJamJdGordon: have you read the irc logs? i wrote something to you earlier.
01:35:22JdGordonnot yet
01:35:22jimbobukLlorean: thats good to know on support.. and thats just in there from the beginning or is that something that i'd download a plugin/patch compile in to get it to work?
01:35:52 Join himitsu [0] (n=himitsu@
01:37:14Lloreanjimbobuk: When I say "Rockbox supports blah" it means it's built in. :)
01:37:35TrueJournalsHooray :-D Worked... but it didn't change the icon height correctly... Do I just need to change to a font that will have the correct height?
01:38:34jimbobukLlorean: great..
01:38:43JdGordonTrueJournals: yes
01:38:57JdGordonPaulJam: well, your right, but fr convienience, its better to ato-detect
01:39:00TrueJournalsJdGordon: Thanks for the help :-D
01:39:07midkayJdGordon: that'll be fixed, right?
01:39:57JdGordonwhat will?
01:39:58jimbobukI'm a bit of a hifi/headphone nut but i guess i'm kind of in remission.. i realise its a highly subjective thing audio quality.. but at a glance would you say the gigabeat sounds fine.. good even.. i take it the amp will be allowed to operate at full power under rockbox firmware rather than official mp3 players in the EU having the EU volume cap applied.. (great in theory to protect kiddies ears, but not so much when u want to use differe
01:39:58jimbobukimpedance headphones with your hardware)
01:40:37 Quit habana ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:40:44midkayJdGordon: as it soundsfrom what TrueJournals said, if the icons are larger than the font they'll be clipped or overlapping?
01:41:06Lloreanjimbobuk: Yes, Rockbox doesn't have any arbitrary volume limitations.
01:41:07JdGordonyes, its not up tot he icon drawing code to positions them orrectly
01:41:28JdGordonand its too ard for this to happen in the list.. well, easly...
01:41:29Lloreanjimbobuk: And the sound quality on the Gigabeat is decent.
01:41:44markunsome even claim it's great
01:41:53midkayJdGordon: i guess it would be a little hard to code.. alright. never mind. :)
01:41:54 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
01:42:09 Quit brun0_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:42:56jimbobukand there aren't any real differences between a gigabeat F or X .. i guess if you can use the same rockbox firmware that speaks volumes.. a wikipedia page claims that they have OLED screen tech.. so getting an F60 or X60 isn't really a big decision.
01:43:23markunjimbobuk: that wikipedia article is full of shit
01:43:48markunonly the flash based Gigabeats have a OLED display, maybe that confused the guy how wrote that
01:44:48toffe82jimbobuk: the X has a bigger screen and is smaller in size
01:44:56jimbobuki take it the skins as well can drastically change the operation of your player, or is it generally just an asthetic thing.. be interested to see how it works, you know how you use it.. obviously an ipod interface is pretty slick.. my aging jukebox3 is a bit clunky.. but it did do playlists on the player years before the pod, and i do like how you can step back through pages, so go from now playing, now playing playlist, and back into the
01:44:56jimbobukartist/album pages you came from.. popping them off a stack... is there a document, anim, mockup anywhere showing how it works to do things in rockbox.
01:45:04jimbobuksorry, typing too much and my client is splitting lines
01:45:20jimbobukmarkun: heh.. i did wonder about that.
01:45:20 Join Rincewind [0] (
01:45:25markunjimbobuk: also, so far the X users reported a lower runtime, but we don't know if that was just coincidence
01:45:35markuncompared to the F
01:45:49midkayjimbobuk: it will work the same, themes are just aesthetic.
01:46:09 Quit _pill ("changing servers")
01:46:10jimbobukare the batteries in either something that you can replace once they get exhausted.
01:46:10toffe82markun: the X is in the box of the S so the battery is smaller , I will confirm when I will receive mine
01:46:46jimbobukhmm battery life is a good thing, that may tempt me to an F
01:46:53markuntoffe82: I know that the X' battery is 830mAh, do you have any idea how much the one in the F is?
01:47:19markunjimbobuk: I don't hink they are easy to replace
01:47:30jimbobukwhat kind of prices are we looking at paying for these things.. the F is discontinued now isn't it? the X was only available in eastern markets (again according to that wikipedia page)
01:47:34markunbut maybe we find batteries from another device which work as well
01:48:05markun2 days ago 4000 Gigabeat F40's were sold for 99 USD each
01:48:15joshinThe 40G F-series was just on Amazon (& Office Depot) for $100
01:48:19joshinI ordered 1
01:48:20markunbut normally it's not so easy to find new ones
01:48:34Lloreanjoshin: You'll get notification it's out of stock.
01:48:43Lloreanjoshin: Office Depot's been out of stock since Wed.
01:48:49joshinSo there are going to be a flood of them on eBay within a week
01:49:30jimbobukahh sorry, i'm in the UK too
01:49:35Lloreanjimbobuk: Expect about US $180 for a new one from a retailer, as low as US $70 if you find it on ebay and bidding doesn't get bad.
01:49:39jimbobukjust found an F60 but it was EXPENSIVE
01:49:48LloreanThose prices I listed are for F40s, btw.
01:50:01 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
01:50:05jimbobukand u can upgrade the drive to 80gig? or thats not for this player?
01:50:31markunshould be possible
01:50:43markunbut take care that you don't buy the one with the ZIF connector
01:50:57 Part TrueJournals
01:51:10jimbobukwhats that and how could you tell?
01:51:27markuntoffe82: which one should he buy?
01:51:49LloreanMK8007 I believe.
01:51:55LloreanEr MK8007GAH, right?
01:52:38LloreanToshiba 80gb ATA-100 1.8" dual platter, it's basically the big brother of the 40gb drive Toshiba tends to use.
01:54:40jimbobukah sorry, when buying replacement hdd.. gotcha
01:55:12jimbobukand potentially if they release a larger size one with the same connector in the future it may be possible to stick one of those in as well
01:56:03joshin$732 for that drive on eBay (item 120099065349). I feel sore just from reading the listing.
01:56:21Lloreanjoshin: You can find 'em for less, and will be able to much moreso in the near future.
01:56:30 Join fasmaie [0] (
01:56:44joshinOh, I know. I was just shocked to see it listed for that much.
01:56:58Lloreanjoshin: CNET shopper lists it at $500
01:57:18jimbobuki see one coming soon in a local shop
01:57:43jimbobukits perpendicular magnetic recording type.. very modern
01:57:49Lloreanjimbobuk: Basically, as long as the connector and interface are fine.
01:58:07Lloreanjimbobuk: Just watch the Toshiba MK-blah series, and make sure they're not the ZIF ones (Zero Insertion Force connector)
01:58:46LloreanThe Gigabeat F40 and above expect a dual platter disk, the F20 and below expect single platter (this affects the disk's size slightly, which would result in it not fitting, too loose or tight)
01:59:34jimbobukwell trying to do some ebay browsing but it looks mostly US based.. complete with the import duty and this one guy atm saying no warranty beyond DOA
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02:01:10toffe82jimbobuk: where do you live ?
02:03:23 Part Llorean
02:04:04jimbobuktoffe82: in the UK
02:04:19jimbobukhence the suffix :)
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02:07:14JdGordonPaulJam: well, i thought about removing the autoheight, and it sorta does mak sense, although it would only alow new builds to load older bmps... not the other way around
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02:24:04AceNikcan anyone tell me how to simulate the hold on/off button & hdd led in the simulator & how to take screenshots
02:25:08tchanscreenshots would be a function provided by some other gui tool other than rockbox. scrot works nicely here. Your distro probably provides one of many choices.
02:25:19safetydanAceNik: hold I think is the 'h' key
02:25:53AceNiksafetydan: thanks 'h' works
02:26:00safetydanj for remote hold
02:26:03rotatorAceNik: IIRC the 0 numpad key makes a screen dump
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02:26:29AceNikcan any one tell me if i have resized n made some changes to a wps , what should i do to get it approved , like onsult the main author , or what
02:26:31JdGordonf5 for screenshots
02:26:44AceNikcool thanks a lot guys
02:26:56JdGordonyou cant simulate the hdd activity tho.. i dont tinhk the led is "wired up" :p
02:27:43TrueJournalsJdGordon: I'm trying to make a custom icon set... do you have a rundown of what each icon is?
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02:28:58AceNikTrueJournals: there is a patch in the sparay section on icon sets
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02:30:36TrueJournalsJdGordon: Arggg... closed the room on accident... what was that file again?
02:30:55TrueJournalsok, thanks
02:30:58*JdGordon back in 20
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02:33:58AceNikuys i have re-done the cabbie theme of the ipod originally for gigabeat for the h10[20GB] do i need to trake permission to modify it , & post it for the h10
02:36:36jimbobukLlorean mentioned that rockbox supported .. how does that work? is there a program you run in windows that talks to the rockbox player and uploads to
02:38:06spiorfjimbobuk, i use this
02:38:32AceNik jimbobuk: you need to enable last fm support in your player , read manual for that , then after that , a .scrobbler file is create din the root of your player , use the link above to upload that file information to your account
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02:43:44jimbobukspiorf: thanks i'd seen that earlier.. i guess the only issue would be one of putting your details into a remote webpage.. u appear to be able to get the php yourself so you could put it on your own site if you needed
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03:27:45aliaskJdGordon: With the viewers icons, is the first one the folder thing, or the chip8 icon?
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03:30:29JdGordonaliask: the chip8 icon should be the first in the viewers
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03:30:46JdGordonand the .icons file starts at 1 not 0
03:30:52JdGordon(and the viewers.config)
03:31:40aliaskWhat's the .icons file?
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03:32:08aliaskOh, nvm
03:32:30JdGordonthe not-really-documented way to give an extension an icon
03:32:37JdGordondaurnimator: stilll wanna swap today?
03:32:49daurnimatoryeah, sure
03:33:28aliaskDon't forget your trenchcoat and shady glasses
03:33:55aliaskBy the way, I found my H300 remote (after I sold the player)... anyone want it?
03:33:59zealiask: what're you an 80's DARE commercial?
03:34:26zedon't forget your trash can lid with the selection neatly arranged and glued to the inside
03:35:00aliaskSneaky. I'll have to remember that one for next time.
03:35:37JdGordonaliask: lcd or non-lcd one?
03:36:16aliaskWell... both really. I got a h100 for $30 two days ago
03:37:02JdGordona h100 or the remote for a h100? $30 is cheap1
03:37:27aliaskBoth. It was pretty badly scratched up, and the OF wasn't booting properly. Rockbox works fine :)
03:39:54JdGordonaliask: why so many double ups in your viewer.bmp?
03:40:16aliaskI got lazy. MIDI, Wavview, VBRFIX
03:40:57aliaskThey're all audio IMO...
03:40:58JdGordonyou should only have 1 version and map all those plugins to the same icon... that way you get to put more in your bmp
03:41:18JdGordoninfact, if they just use the inbuilt audio icon you dont need them at all...
03:41:29aliaskYeah, that's what I was thinking...
03:41:33JdGordonjust use b<number> in the icons file
03:41:42aliaskOh is that what that is.
03:41:44*JdGordon hopes someone will start a wiki page
03:41:51aliaskI thought that was hex or something...
03:42:14JdGordonno, b<number> for inbuilt, <number> for viewers.bmp, and - for none
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03:49:24AceNikhey guys i made changes to the cabie theme, how do i notify the author & upload the new one for the h10[20GB]
03:51:04JdGordonaliask: is the 5th icon down supposed to be an old-school movie reel?
03:52:48aliaskAlso, are the base (b0 etc) 0 based? And the viewers 1 based?
03:53:41JdGordonboth are 0 based
03:53:53JdGordonjust fixed that (new file being uploaded in a min)
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03:57:11daurnimatorJdGordon: where, when, (what, who, how much :) )
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04:00:18Nico_PJdGordon: I love the loadable icons patch !
04:00:20aliaskJdGordon: Hrm, could you edit my flyspray post to say that it is compatible with your new patch, not the old one?
04:00:29Nico_Pwhen are you planning on committing it ?
04:00:47JdGordonNico_P: today or tomorow hoipefully....
04:01:12JdGordonaliask: back in a while.. i will then, cant oyu edit your own posts?? (wierd)
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04:01:36aliaskJdGordon: I need to be admin, which I'm not.
04:05:55AceNikuys where can i ask mr.Yohann Miquitta permission for modifyin & uploading his wps
04:06:26JdGordonaliask: ok done
04:07:12LloreanAceNik: If he hasn't left an email address on his user page, it's really impossible to say.
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04:11:01AceNikim making a thread , attaching 2 screenshots , need help with his approval & some help with bakground
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04:24:23ReyuthI'd like some help, please. I just installed Rockbox on an IPod Nano and about 3 minutes after that it's frozen. I can't reset, I can't boot to apple firmware. The USB device won't show up on the computer. I have the latest bootloader and daily build from today.
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04:30:28AceNikis this fine
04:30:29LloreanReyuth: You can reboot it with the Menu+Select method
04:30:36LloreanReyuth: How did it freeze?
04:31:27AceNikReyuth:the worst case scenario is , the harware is stuck , i remember i took it to the service center al he did was just open n reset it
04:31:38ReyuthI was turning it on after I'd turned it off to reload the voice files. It wouldn't do anything after that.
04:31:38LloreanAceNik: Honestly, do you think five exclamation marks does any more than one?
04:31:50LloreanReyuth: Turn on hold, turn off hold, hold menu+select for 15-30seconds
04:32:35AceNik Llorean: anythin else
04:33:13ReyuthiThanks, Llorean. That worked.
04:34:12LloreanAceNik: Well, other than the fact that you've repeatedly got the name of the theme wrong, and your grammar terrifies me, no, not really.
04:34:41ReyuthI appreciate not having to tell my friend his Ipod is bricked. Thanks for the help.
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04:37:41AceNikLlorean:fixed dont shout i was up all night
04:37:56LloreanI didn't shout.
04:38:57AceNikLlorean: k thanks for the help , im off now will return in some hrs to check up if anyone replied , which i feel you still would , on the forum , anyways thanks for your support i hope it continues
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06:02:55mitch04anyone here working on proting zen vision m?
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06:31:54Lloreanmitch04: If someone had been they would've answered you.
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06:52:26Sna[E]where can i found rockckander for the last version?
06:53:02LloreanDo you mean rockcalender?
06:53:19LloreanEr, rockcalendar even.
06:53:30LloreanYou should search the patch tracker
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06:53:50Sna[E]and thats mean what?
06:54:05LloreanIt means the patch tracker... The link on the left side of the site that says "patches"
06:54:20Sna[E]ant than?
06:54:42LloreanAs I said, search it.
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06:59:38Sna[E]i found the patch
06:59:51Sna[E]but i dont know who to use it
07:00:06LloreanRead the SimpleGuideToCompiling page in the wiki
07:00:11LloreanYou will have to compile your own build
07:01:47Sna[E]thats to much for me
07:06:49Sna[E]is there any way to d/l the rockcalendar?
07:07:05Sna[E]witout this patch?
07:07:11LloreanIt has to be compiled for your player specifically
07:07:28LloreanMeaning you either have to compile it yourself, or find someone who's compiled it for the same player, such as an unsupported build that includes it
07:08:14Sna[E]but why its not in the rockbox file like the atoher versions?
07:08:50LloreanWhat other versions?
07:09:14LloreanIt's not included in Rockbox because it wasn't considered ready last time someone looked at it.
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07:51:37muthuany support for archos 604?
07:51:49LloreanIs it listed?
07:52:03muthunope.. wondering if any one is working on it.
07:52:33LloreanThat's a different question entirely. But no.
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09:55:07scorche"<+Random> if you don't have malloc you can hardly call it "C""...haha
09:56:31scorchepretty much
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10:02:25AmblinAnyone else get a Rockbox error: -1 message upon boot of today's build?
10:02:46LloreanError: -1 means that the bootloader can't find your rockbox.ipod
10:02:49LloreanOr rockbox.iriver
10:02:54LloreanOr whatever player you have
10:03:11bluebrotherAmblin, that error is explained in the manual ...
10:03:24AmblinLlorean: The latest builds no longer included the bootloader?
10:03:36LloreanAmblin: Uh, what?
10:03:37 Join ackbahr [0] (
10:03:38bluebrotherthe builds never included the bootloader
10:03:42LloreanAmblin: You install the bootloader once, ever.
10:03:45LloreanUnless you need to update it.
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10:03:56bluebrotheryou need to download and install the bootloader separately.
10:04:06bluebrotherexcept for the archos boxes
10:04:09LloreanAmblin: What player do you have?
10:04:12AmblinI got it.
10:04:15bluebrotherbut I guess you're not referring to one of them ;-)
10:04:43AmblinI just went to and got the latest bootloader.
10:05:09AmblinLlorean: A e200.
10:05:47LloreanIf you've got an outdated bootloader on that, then you need to uninstall the bootloader entirely first.
10:06:16LloreanRestore the original firmware by putting an official Sandisk update on it (PP5022.MI4) then restart into the original firmware a few times until it says it's updating
10:06:21LloreanThen follow the manual to properly install the bootloader
10:07:03AmblinOh fun. Ok, thanks for the help, Llorean.
10:08:10LloreanWell, you installed the bootloader prior to our release of the Sansapatcher tool
10:13:28AmblinAnd all is well; no more static in the audio during use of mpeg player.
10:15:19JdGordonscorche: who said that?
10:17:45AmblinBetween the 12th and today's build, does anyone know if there was any audio quality improvements made on the e200?
10:18:08scorcheJdGordon: just a random (no pun intended) person in #freenode-social
10:18:33JdGordonah ok :)
10:19:36LloreanAmblin: The changelog is still where it always has been.
10:21:14AmblinLlorean: Unfortunately, I do not know what most of it means.
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10:38:31rifthello, I'have mad a new rockbox theme for ipod nano, if anyone want to test it, send me a private message
10:40:04JdGordonput it on the wiki and.or
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10:44:25PaulJamsvn question: how can i remove a folder from my sorce, that it doesn't get redownloaded on the next svn up? i tried "svn rm wps/" and then renamed the dir, but on next svn up it gets redownloaded.
10:44:41LloreanWhy do you need to remove it permanently?
10:45:25PaulJami don't want to include the wps files in the .zip
10:46:10LloreanWell then you also have other options: Editing the make zip script for example.
10:46:23LloreanI'm not familiar with SVN, but that might be an easier alternative
10:46:49PaulJamgood idea, haven't thought of that.
10:50:55PaulJamseems as if it worked, thanks Llorean.
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10:58:01bluebrothersvn downloads the state of the repository. That's the purpose.
10:58:17bluebrotheryou can svn up apps firmware tools to update only those folders
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11:03:40bluebrotherLlorean, what do you think about FS #7019? IMO we can reject it as the copy / paste does the job.
11:06:55Lloreanbluebrother: I think it can be rejected, yes. There's no need to complicate that function further, as it just makes it easier for someone to screw something up.
11:07:09linuxstb__IMO it's a valid request - IIUC, the poster is asking for renaming files to support moving...
11:07:18 Nick linuxstb__ is now known as linuxstb (
11:07:30Lloreanlinuxstb: We already have much more convenient move functions.
11:08:20Lloreanlinuxstb: I think having the rename show the whole path will just confuse users, as well as making it hard to clear a filename.
11:08:57linuxstbI guess I'm a command-line person...
11:09:07bluebrotherok, I just closed the task. Feel free to reopen if you disagree ;-)
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11:09:30bluebrotherI'm a command line person too. But without a real keyboard it isn't too comfortable
11:09:48Lloreanlinuxstb: I think for the vast majority it'll be an option that isn't even known about, and with potential to cause easily misplaced files.
11:10:11LloreanBut I'm not really strongly against it, I'm just not for it at all. :)
11:10:21bluebrotherI'd rather replace the cut / paste with a real move / copy function, i.e. you select "move" and then select the target folder instead of using some strange clipboard
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11:11:16linuxstbThat needs a proper "choose directory" widget, which we don't have, but would be nice.
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11:11:32JdGordonwe need a proper choose dir and choose folder function
11:12:05JdGordonbut.. i see no problem with showing th eufll path in the rename screen so it can be moved like that
11:12:19bluebrotheryes. But wouldn't it be sufficient to use the list view and simply filter out all files? I.e. show directories only?
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11:12:46Lloreanbluebrother: We need a way to differentiate between "enter" and "select" folders
11:12:48LloreanWhich I've said for a while
11:13:05bluebrotherhmm, right. Missed that ...
11:13:11LloreanI think "Right" should be enter, and "Select" allow you to actually select folders, without a context menu. Right now they're duplicates.
11:13:32LloreanOnce you split their functionality, one of them could be easy "insert" and the other keep the old functionality.
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11:13:33safetydanYeah I'd love to redo cut/copy to be move/copy but the dir browser can't support what we need at the moment.
11:13:48bluebrothersafetydan: go! go! go! ;-)
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11:14:16JdGordonI think the tree viewer should be redone so it can be given a action handler so we can do this more easily..
11:15:03bluebrotheraction handler for what to do on select?
11:15:10safetydanbluebrother: no time! no time! no time! :)
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11:15:54bluebrothersafetydan, too bad. Same issue here :(
11:15:54JdGordonimo the tree viewer is done very badly :p
11:16:37*bluebrother is still searching for time to get the code known better
11:16:50bluebrotheralways this students with too much time ...
11:17:03bluebrotherI'm definitely studying at the wrong university.
11:17:22safetydanI'd love to be a student again. I had so much spare time back then :)
11:18:45JdGordonwhat id like is to be able to give it a directory to browse, a filter, and an action handler (which for te tree would be onplay.c), but that would allow us to have a very easy to use open-file or save-as func
11:19:29*JdGordon has been meaning to do this since root menu, but cbf :p
11:20:09linuxstbJdGordon: Can I ask you about the keymaps files - a few things look odd to me...
11:20:36JdGordonshoot even
11:20:49JdGordoncant be <bothered>
11:20:57linuxstbI'm looking at the h1x0/h3x0 keymap as an example. In the settings context, you define actions like ACTION_STD_PREV - why not ACTION_SETTINGS_PREV?
11:22:12linuxstbSimilarly, in a few contexts, you have ACTION_STD_OK defined.
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11:23:09JdGordonumm... how else do you think std_ok should be done in those contexts?
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11:24:01JdGordonthe setting context isnt really used anymore (except the colour picker and the eq display), the new setting screens use the list context iirc
11:24:32linuxstbI would expect it to be called something related to the context - i.e. ACTION_TREE_OK for the tree context.
11:24:58linuxstbOr if it's the same as the standard context, then why redefine it?
11:25:30JdGordonno, the idea of actions is to do as little work as possible, if that were the case, every keymap file would have to define tree_ok and std_ok even if they are the same button, the current way uses the context chaining thing to do the same
11:25:42JdGordonwhere is std_ok redefined in 2 contexts?
11:26:27linuxstbJust search the keymap file, and you'll find it - it appears many times in the h1x0/h3x0 keymap file.
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11:28:52JdGordonusually, the only time it needs to be redefined (any action) is 1) if the context doesnt chain to context_std, or 2) the definition in context_std uses some combo which isnt needed for this context
11:30:00JdGordonit is very possible though that there is lots of extra items in the keymap files... but it needs someone with time to go through them and check
11:30:31linuxstbSo why have an "_XXX_" part in the names of the actions? i,e, just have ACTION_OK
11:31:26JdGordoni dont know... i guess I started with it in the first incarnation of acitons and they just stuck
11:31:49JdGordonbut I think it makes it a bit clearer exactly which screen should return which set of actions with that
11:32:18JdGordonmaybe they are completly redundant
11:33:26JdGordonLlorean: can you chane a users nick ont he forums? makes the table look wierd
11:34:12JdGordonlinuxstb: oh, i remember reading in the logs you ad second thoughts about about the root menu context menus?
11:34:53linuxstbIt seems most others are against, and I agree with their arguments...
11:35:56LloreanJdGordon: The table? And I'd rather not ask people to change their usernames without a really good reason.
11:36:55JdGordonLlorean: looks funny because of his nick
11:37:09JdGordonlinuxstb: because of the menus they point to? or other reason?
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11:38:13bluebrotherthe table looks right here ...
11:38:19LloreanLooks fine to me.
11:38:54bluebrotherlong nicks break the view of a thread, but that's a diffferent place
11:38:56JdGordonmust be must 1024x768 display then
11:39:09*bluebrother has 1024x768
11:39:28bluebrotherbut allowing the forums to break long user names might be an idea
11:39:49bluebrotherno idea how hard that would be though. I guess it's not a standard feature of the forums software
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11:41:41webguest04anyone speak english here?
11:41:56bluebrotherthis channel is english
11:41:58safetydanja, si, oui
11:42:01Lloreanwebguest04: Considering the channel guidelines say it's an English speaking channel, it's a good bet.
11:42:16linuxstbWe could just delete that thread - the poster's problem was solved and there are many many other threads with the same question and answer.
11:42:21bluebrothernooo! I only think I speak english *g*
11:42:32bluebrotheror am I dreaming?
11:42:43bluebrotherwebguest04, anyway, how may we help you?
11:42:50davinayou are in a rockbox emulation bluebrother ;)
11:42:52webguest04ok... after about 30min of searching through many help threads... im going to have to ask here
11:42:54Lloreanlinuxstb: I'll do that, for now
11:43:02webguest04 im trying o get my ipod to play flac files
11:43:15bluebrothermust ... resist ... speaking ... the ... c ... language ...
11:43:36Lloreanwebguest04: Okay, that's not yet a question.
11:43:40linuxstbBut the forum page looks fine to me, even when resizing the window to something narrow.
11:43:57webguest04" how can i get my ipod to play .FLAC files? " ^^
11:44:00Lloreanwebguest04: They're treated no different than any other audio file in Rockbox.
11:44:09bluebrotherwebguest04, just play them ;-)
11:44:20davinayeah should just work with rockbox installed
11:44:20safetydanwebguest04, it should just work. They may need to have an extension of .flac though
11:44:44webguest04but i cant get itunes to open it in the library ( or am i just a noob and not supposed to be using itunes? )
11:44:57linuxstbYou are just a noob and not supposed to be using itunes...
11:45:07safetydanharsh, but fair :)
11:45:08webguest04arrr.... thought that might be the case
11:45:09linuxstbAt least, not for FLAC files. Just copy them.
11:45:24bluebrotheritunes being broken is not a Rockbox problem ;-)
11:45:25*davina does use itune anymore and has written a shell script to sync the library
11:45:46linuxstbYes, itunes should be aware of Rockbox and sync all formats Rockbox supports...
11:46:12bluebrotherit should also play all those formats. Like sid *g*
11:46:36webguest04ok all ive done is download rockox 2.5 for windows and ( supposibly ) installed it on my ipod
11:46:52safetydanwebguest04: I think you've taken a wrong turn somewhere.
11:46:56linuxstbwebguest04: You should read the manual - see the link on the right-side of the Rockbox website.
11:47:06bluebrotherDid you read the top of the page where you downloaded "rockbox 2.5"?
11:47:07linuxstbAnd then follow the install instructions in the manual.
11:47:22bluebrother2.5 wasn't released for ipods. It won't run.
11:47:25linuxstbI mean left-side of the website...
11:47:41webguest04Oh man, im such a noob... ill read up before i make an even bigger ass of myself
11:48:03bluebrotherwebguest04, don't worry ... noob != ass
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11:49:57bluebrother(!= means "not equal" in case you don't know that syntax)
11:50:01LloreanI think "ass" starts right about at the point someone insists they did everything right, and the instructions must be wrong. :)
11:50:54desowin"/home/desowin/iPod/rockbox/build/librockbox.a(thread.o): In function `switch_thread':
11:50:54desowinthread.c:(.icode+0x370): undefined reference to `start_thread'"
11:51:01desowinwhen compiling latest svn
11:51:41Lloreandesowin: Compiles fine on our servers, as you could see if you looked at the build table.
11:51:45bluebrotherdesowin, do you have the recommended compiler version?
11:52:11bluebrotheryou need 4.0.3 for ipod builds
11:52:12desowin4.1.1 - I haven't changed it
11:52:28bluebrotherI don't think we recommend 4.1.1, do we?
11:52:29LloreanThe recommended version is 4.0.3, as it has been for some time. It was never 4.1.anything
11:52:33*davina is away: back laters
11:52:51bluebrotherdesowin, is 4.1.1 the version of arm-elf-gcc or the host gcc?
11:53:08desowinI havecross-arm-elf/gcc-4.1.1-r3 since 2007-02-10 and it worked
11:53:18LloreanDoesn't matter if it used to work
11:53:33safetydandesowin: also try a make clean first
11:53:38LloreanIt was never the recommended version, and if you're using it, you're doing different steps from those we claim work.
11:53:43bluebrothersafetydan: beat me
11:54:22desowinsafetydan: it was fresh checkout
11:54:36safetydandesowin: yes, but was it a clean build directory?
11:55:04webguest04" There has not yet been a stable release for the Ipod Video " am I just better off waiting for a stable buiold to come out rather than messing around with all of these SVN patches?
11:55:06safetydanWell then you'll need to use 4.0.4 or you'll get wackiness like you're seeing.
11:55:12Lloreansafetydan: 4.0.3
11:55:12desowinI'll emerge 4.0.3
11:55:38Lloreanwebguest04: What SVN patches?
11:56:02Lloreanwebguest04: Use of SVN is not involved in any way to the regular use of Rockbox.
11:56:07safetydandesowin: uh, you'll need a special Rockbox version of arm-elf-gcc 4.0.3
11:56:07LloreanSame with patches
11:56:44webguest04so i dont need to install the boot loader onto my ipod?
11:56:49safetydandesowin: just use the tools/ script to get a working (and supported) arm compiler
11:56:56JdGordonBagder: (or anyone who knows around?
11:57:02linuxstbwebguest04: You have to do exactly what the manual says...
11:57:08Lloreansafetydan: I thought the standard arm-elf-gcc 4.0.3 was fine as long as you weren't doing the thumb interworking.
11:57:38JdGordonuh oh!
11:58:04Lloreandesowin: Looking at it, the CrossCompiler page even explicitly states 4.1.0 at least isn't expected to work properly, by the way.
11:58:07safetydanLlorean: that's entirely possible. I don't have an arm target to check such things :)
11:58:20daurnimatorJdGordon: get over here
11:58:38desowinLlorean: ok, just it's crazy, because I used it since beginning, time to downgrade
11:58:49Lloreansafetydan: I know it *used* to be a vanilla arm-elf-gcc, but that was about the same week we got sound working on the iPod. It's been a while since I've even had that same computer. :)
11:59:09Lloreandesowin: Well, you were just lucky then. Next time, read the instructions. :-P
11:59:16safetydanLlorean: all I know is that the script does apply the thumb interworking patch. Whether it's required in all cases I don't know.
11:59:21linuxstbdesowin: Maybe the issue isn't your compiler - have you done the usual "make clean", reconfigure etc steps?
11:59:37bluebrotherdesowin, or fix the code so it compiles fine with 4.1.1. ;-)
12:00:02*desowin approves bluebrother, but don't think like I'll be able to do this
12:02:31Lloreansafetydan: I don't believe we use thumb interworking yet, I think it's just there so we're ready in the future if we do.
12:02:33*Llorean isn't sure
12:02:54Lloreanlinuxstb: He said it was a clean build folder.
12:03:08linuxstbLlorean: Yes, I've since read that...
12:03:30webguest04ok... think i just broke my ipod... forum time lol
12:04:16riftit's normal if %ac%cH:Mc i view 12:Mc
12:04:36linuxstbThe clock tags have changed recently.
12:04:37Lloreanrift: Yes, the tag format has changed.
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12:07:50JdGordonlinuxstb: do you know at all?
12:08:02linuxstbWe're not close, no.
12:08:11linuxstbBut I can probably help...
12:08:49linuxstbI assume you want to include some icon bmp files?
12:09:11JdGordontrying to figure out how to get it to know if there is a lcd remote in the build
12:10:23linuxstbFor the icons?
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12:11:18JdGordonneed to somehow get it to put the correct viewer bmp into the zip
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12:11:51linuxstbWouldn't that make more sense as part of the script? i.e. extend that to include the other theme components such as the icons?
12:12:25JdGordonwould it?
12:13:28LloreanI think it would is basically now, since it includes backdrops.
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12:14:06*Llorean wonders if we could make it include fonts, so at least included the fonts for the included themes.
12:14:07JdGordonoh? it does backdrops also? in that case ill look
12:14:12riftLlorean: do you have a web page where the this tag is explain ?
12:14:14*JdGordon figured out :)
12:14:19LloreanJdGordon: Well, something has to include backdrops.
12:14:41LloreanI'm assuming it's what does the job, we do have some included right?
12:15:41JdGordonLlorean: no, i dont think we include any backdrops
12:15:45*JdGordon cant find even
12:16:11JdGordonand its in /wps :p
12:16:19LloreanJdGordon: I know some of our WPSes have a %X, I don't know if we have menu backdrops now that I think about it.
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12:17:37linuxstbMain backdrops aren't in /wps - so at the moment it is still strictly wps-only.
12:17:40JdGordonim not really sure which file would be best for this... seems to only deal with the wps and its cfg, copies it all
12:17:59JdGordonhmm, no, wpsbuild does copy them in should extend to themes, I think creates the theme.cfg file
12:18:41linuxstbas well as the .wps/.rwps file and choosing which bmp files to include for the WPS.
12:19:09linuxstbBut on the other hand, creates the fonts...
12:19:25LloreanWell, right now no fonts are included by default
12:19:26JdGordonall i was plannign on doing is copying the correct viewer.bmp into /.rockbox/icons/. Without any set in a cfg it will be read automatically
12:19:32linuxstbAlthough maybe the fonts used by the default themes should be included...
12:19:41LloreanI think it'd be good if we included the fonts necessary for the included themes, as a minimum, no matter what.
12:19:56*JdGordon agrees
12:20:01PaulJami just noticed that the description of the crossfade taf is wrong (in the wiki and in the manual): the order is Off, Shuffle, Skip, Shuffle & Skip, Always (the skip & Shuffle option was added in december)
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12:21:48linuxstbJdGordon: So even the default icons are loaded from an external bmp?
12:22:14JdGordonjust the viewer icons
12:22:19JdGordonthe main set are inbuilt
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12:25:12safetydanhrm, can't get this eq graphing stuff working again
12:26:43linuxstbJdGordon: Looking at your latest patch, why do the different entries for "wav" in viewers.config have different icons? i.e. "-", "-", "b0", 10 Which one is given to a wav file in the browser?
12:27:31JdGordonneither :p wav is built in, so the builtin icon is used, unless there is a .icons file
12:28:27linuxstbSo built-in formats shouldn't have an icon entry?
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12:29:47JdGordonit doesnt use any extra space though, so its no big deal if it does have an entry
12:30:16linuxstbIt's just confusing to have them in the vewers.config - if they're not processed, then why have them?
12:30:37JdGordonto make sure the plugin is put in the right folder
12:31:00linuxstbWhat's that got to do with the icon?
12:31:07JdGordonoh nothing
12:31:20linuxstbI'm only talking about the icon entry in viewers.config
12:31:22JdGordonthe line has to be there... i guess i used different ones to show how the file can be used
12:31:45*JdGordon doesnt like the letter b.. whats a better char for its use?
12:34:38*Nico_P just had the idea of a WPS tag to define what line height to use... It would allow the use of fonts smaller than what the WPS was intented for
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12:36:30Nico_Phow does that sound ?
12:36:37LloreanI like it.
12:36:51LloreanIf a too-high font was used, could it use Rockbox_default (sysfont) in its place, too?
12:37:18linuxstbIt seems that viewers.config is used for two things - 1) adding new filetypes and assigning icons to them; 2) Registering viewers associated with certain extensions. I'm wondering if it would be cleaner to separate these two functions.
12:37:35PaulJamNico_P: using a different font wouldn't work for many wps, that use spaces to adjust the position of the text on the line.
12:37:54Nico_PLlorean: That would be a bit more code but probably... I suppose you know what gave me the idea ;)
12:37:58LloreanPaulJam: It'd still improve the situation.
12:38:16linuxstbYou could then have a filetypes.cfg with one line per filetype, and the icon file would simply need to contain icons in the same format as the entries in filetypes.cfg. You then have a separate viewers.cfg which has nothing to do with icons.
12:38:23LloreanNico_P: Well, I think if we start including a minimal font set (only fonts used in included themes) that'll help somewhat too.
12:39:32Lloreanlinuxstb: I was against viewers.cfg having anything to do with icons too. Themeing and functional aspects should be kept separate.
12:39:41JdGordonlinuxstb: well, thats pretty much what i have done with the .icons file
12:40:33*JdGordon wonders if the open with screen could use the viewer's icon instead of the standard dot
12:40:42linuxstbUh? There's a .icons file as well as a viewers.config?
12:40:50JdGordonno, its optional
12:41:08daurnimatorJdGordon: i want your iriver nowish ;)
12:41:28JdGordondaurnimator: on ya bike then :)
12:41:46daurnimatorit needs oiling :(
12:45:47daurnimatorhmm, just looking at wpses for the iriver h3xx - iCatcher isn't bad...
12:45:57JdGordonNico_P: and another idea for the wps... allow it to display an icon from the builtins (once my patch is commited of course)
12:46:09Nico_PJdGordon: good idea
12:46:32LloreanMy biggest problem with iCatcher is just that the volume display is nearly useless (to me)
12:46:59LloreanNico_P: Could I make a suggestion regarding the Volume enumeration?
12:47:18Nico_PLlorean: I'm listening, but I'm aware of your feature request about it :)
12:47:34LloreanThe <0|1|...|Full|Red> one?
12:47:54LloreanI wasn't sure I'd filed that request, or imagined I'd filed it.
12:48:26LloreanI have to hack a numeric volume display into any pretty looking WPS because everyone seems to like these graphical ones, and I like to use external speakers.
12:49:34LloreanNico_P: Okay, glad to see I actually posted it.
12:50:07*Llorean wonders why "Tasks reported by me" doesn't work
12:50:53Nico_PLlorean: are you clicking on "show" after having selected that ?
12:51:43LloreanNico_P: Yes.
12:51:48LloreanIt works fine for Tasks I watch
12:51:52LloreanNever mind
12:51:56LloreanI just realized why it doesn't work.
12:52:09Nico_Pwhy's that ?
12:52:14LloreanMy flyspray ID wasn't Llorean, and I recently created Llorean, and am logged in as that.
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12:52:34*Llorean is slightly slow sometimes.
12:53:07JdGordonlinuxstb: so... should I move the icons completly out of viewers.config?
12:53:38JdGordonthey are convinient there for the defaults, but yeah, not really relevant there
12:56:03linuxstbI'm also wondering if filetypes supported by viewers included in the official builds should be considered standard filetypes, and not user-configured filetypes...
12:57:04linuxstbI'm thinking about when users actually modify viewers.config
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12:58:52JdGordonthe user would almost never edit it
12:59:21*JdGordon back in 20
13:02:08daurnimatorwhen making a wps, is it possible to use the same inmage more than once?
13:02:28LloreanNico_P: Aligns with the top of the line?
13:02:33Nico_Pdaurnimator: no, unless you want it in the same position twice
13:02:43Nico_PLlorean: yes, I'll tweak that after lunch
13:03:12SliMMdaurnimator: i think you can load the same image twice
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13:03:39daurnimatorsure, but wouldn't it make more sense to use the same loaded image twice
13:03:48daurnimator - rather than reading it off the hdd twice
13:04:21SliMMit wouldn't
13:04:32Lloreandaurnimator: What image do you need to use twice in different places?
13:04:41SliMMbecause the image is read and also the position
13:04:42daurnimatorvarious design elements
13:04:51Lloreandaurnimator: Why can't they be backdrop?
13:05:15SliMMif you specify the position in the wps itself, it's quite cpu-intensive
13:05:39LloreanSliMM: You've tested this, or been told this by someone who has?
13:05:57SliMMllorean: just supposing :P
13:06:05SliMMhow can i test it if it's not possible
13:06:11daurnimatorman, wps is too simple
13:06:17LloreanSliMM: Write code to allow it.
13:06:18daurnimatori want to do more
13:06:20LloreanSliMM: And then test.
13:06:32LloreanSliMM: But the point is, don't state something as fact unless you have reason to know it is.
13:06:33SliMMllorean: that's a bit too much for me
13:06:49daurnimatorIs there any way to retheme the browser(s)?
13:07:08LloreanI'm pretty sure loading images at positions is more an artifact of how images being included in WPSes was introduced more than an efficiency concern, at least I should think it's equally possible to draw them at arbitrary positions.
13:07:10SliMMdaurnimator: backdrop, fonts
13:07:56SliMMdaurnimator: JdGordon is currently working at coloured icons
13:08:12daurnimatorsorry, i don't know much about the UI
13:08:17daurnimatori've only used rockbox once
13:08:23daurnimatorfor about 30 mins
13:08:43SliMMdaurnimator: use a .cfg file
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13:09:00Lloreandaurnimator: It's a good idea to read the manual then.
13:09:13daurnimatorLlorean: i still don't have a rockboxable target ;P
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13:09:44SliMMdaurnimator: try ui sim builds
13:09:45Lloreandaurnimator: You ARE asking how to do things.
13:11:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:11:26SliMMllorean: what's the link for the sim builds?
13:14:15LloreanSliMM: They're at somewhere.
13:14:20LloreanBut those are often outdated by a few days
13:14:39SliMMllorean: it's good for wps testing
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13:15:56Nico_PLlorean: you're right, it would be quite easy to allow the position to be changed dynmically
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13:16:58Nico_Psure, it would be a little more CPU intensive but not by too much
13:19:14SliMMNico_P: my ipod still drains much battery, noo need of extra drain
13:19:29LloreanNico_P: Why is it more CPU intensive?
13:19:40Nico_PSliMM: the extra drain would be negligible... There's not much the WPS code can do to improve that
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13:20:35Nico_PLlorean: it would mean reading the coord values each time the WPS is refreshed instead of just once... but that's not much
13:21:12LloreanNico_P: Ah, okay.
13:21:34*JdGordon back
13:22:24Nico_PLlorean: now it's centered. Got to go for lunch :)
13:22:35JdGordonNico_P: your screenshots look nice, but if the text is smaller than the line eight it should be cenetered vertically imo
13:23:15LloreanJdGordon: He's just done that 12 seconds before you asked. :-P
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13:29:36JdGordonNico_P: you have a 64bit (?) warning in the sim to fix :)
13:39:45LloreanNico_P: Just a question: Is it a good idea to close unclosed conditionals for people? I just see that causing more reports of unexpected behaviour.
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13:45:16JdGordonhas anyone got a patch to change the root directory for the sim?
13:52:37LloreanJdGordon: Like, /device instead of /archos?
13:53:26JdGordon./rockboxui −−root ../sim_root
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13:55:27PaulJamwhy do you want to do that?
13:56:18JdGordonwhen you need to test stuff which doesnt need plugins/codecs but a set of files
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13:58:26*JdGordon wishes he had a final answer to the viewers.config question so he can gett his patch commited :p
13:58:37JdGordon... and which pl this should all go in
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14:15:36daurnimatorJdGordon: where do i download the sim?
14:15:52austriancoderhi all
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14:19:26Nico_PJdGordon: do you have an idea how I can fix it ?
14:19:51Nico_PLlorean: unclosed conditionals are evil :)
14:20:19Nico_Pand they are closed automatically only when there should be none left open
14:21:54LloreanNico_P: I'd just personally prefer if their WPS had the conditional bad (a subline marked inside one for example) it splashed an error instead of silently ignoring it and possibly leading to an unexpected WPS behaviour.
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14:23:09LloreanOr maybe I'm misunderstanding what happens.
14:23:29LloreanA line like tag?<stuff;other stuff> would close before the ;, right?
14:23:44Nico_PLlorean: they are only closed on line or subline endings
14:23:52LloreanWhich leaves a hanging >
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14:24:01LloreanAnd a conditional that doesn't work as expected.
14:24:10Nico_PLlorean: that one will be ignored/treated as a character
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14:24:36Nico_PLlorean: conditionals can't spread across lines or sublines
14:25:00Nico_Pso there isn't much to expect from such a line anyway
14:25:39LloreanBut a lot of people seem to not know they can't spread across sublines. To me, telling them with a splash is better than closing it for them.
14:26:03Nico_PLlorean: yes, I could probably add a warning
14:26:09LloreanI think that would be best.
14:26:12LloreanLess bug reports for me. :)
14:26:18LloreanMaybe I'm just selfish. ;)
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14:37:52aliaskLearning jap daurnimator?
14:38:14daurnimatoraliask: thats a zaurus you nub :S
14:38:33aliasko rly... thought it was a pocket dictionary
14:38:57daurnimatorits the peak of pda creation
14:39:05aliaskSo they say...
14:39:13daurnimatorthey were only made in japan
14:39:33aliaskExplains the japanese on the keyboard.
14:40:20daurnimatoranother pic :P
14:40:34daurnimator(thats sitting on my leg)
14:43:20LloreanNico_P: With oversized fonts does it crop?
14:44:41bluebrotherwouldn't it be easier to have a tag for insert a arbitrary distance?
14:45:16bluebrotherso you can move text like 2 pixels down by adding an empty "line" of height 2?
14:45:41daurnimatorNico_P: will scrolling still work?
14:45:55Lloreanbluebrother: Different idea.
14:46:05daurnimator - will it take into account the (in/de)creased widths?
14:46:06bluebrotheror add a placement tag to place text at any given position
14:46:08Lloreanbluebrother: This patch keeps missing fonts from breaking the layout.
14:46:22Lloreanbluebrother: Arbitrary text positioning is waiting on viewports
14:46:39LloreanAnd an inserted line of empty pixels would still leave lines font-height dependent.
14:46:43bluebrotherthe idea still looks to complicated to me.
14:47:23JdGordonwhich idea is this?
14:47:25bluebrothermissing fonts will mess up the layout anyway. Just imagine a different character spacing
14:48:12bluebrotherand if we introduce something that can change the positioning of text anyway, why not use absolute positioning? Viewports will only position the viewports itself
14:48:46Lloreanbluebrother: It's still line based, it just makes the line height independent of the font height, it's still a long way for absolute positioning I think.
14:49:30bluebrotherwhat's the difference between absolute positioning (maybe only for the y coordinate?) and changing the height of the font?
14:49:50LloreanAbsolute positioning means that your screen is no longer divided into a fixed number of equal height lines.
14:50:23daurnimatorJdGordon: see the pic?
14:50:38Lloreandaurnimator: Is there some reason you feel you have to be off-topic in our channel?
14:50:49JdGordonLlorean: well.. its not really offtopic
14:50:53LloreanThe Zaurus isn't?
14:50:55bluebrotheryes. But if you can change the height of a line the lines on the screen won't be a fixed number of equal height anymore
14:50:56daurnimatorLlorean: I'm playing with the idea of rockbox running on it
14:51:10Lloreanbluebrother: The LH sets the height of all lines
14:51:22bluebrotherit does? Oh.
14:51:22Lloreanbluebrother: It's like saying "Pretend the font is 16 pixels tall, no matter how tall the real font is"
14:51:24JdGordonBagder: ping?
14:51:48Lloreanbluebrother: That way if they don't have the right font installed, and it uses Rockbox Default instead, it still does one line every 16 pixels, instead of one line every umm... 8 is it?
14:52:17bluebrotherbut how about the width? It will break the layout too.
14:52:37LloreanDepends on the theme, but yes it often will
14:52:52LloreanThemes that use spaces to pad positioning won't work.
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14:53:38LloreanBut if the Y positioning stays aligned, I think it'll be clearer to users that the font is the problem when a theme is broken, rather than Rockbox being broken, because they can see the lines at the right height, just small text and in the wrong horizontal position.
14:54:10bluebrotherhmm. But do we really need / want the added code only because of users failing to install the fonts?
14:54:28LloreanIt does allow you to pick different fonts for a lot of themes.
14:54:52LloreanMany themes use %ar, %ac and %al as their only positioning, making them safe for that patch.
14:55:09JdGordonand on that note, should i fix to install the wps fonts in the zip even if its a nofonts zip?
14:55:26LloreanJdGordon: Ask the people whose bandwidth that is. ;)
14:56:19bluebrotherJdGordon, no. The svn builds are supposed to not include the fonts.
14:56:34bluebrotherthere is "make fullzip" for including the fonts to the zip
14:56:39Lloreanbluebrother: He'd only be including the fonts required by the included WPSes
14:56:43bluebrotherso in the current state it isn't broken at all ;-)
14:56:44LloreanBasically, non-optional fonts.
14:56:47JdGordonbluebrother: right, but then why put the wps' in that build also?
14:57:01LloreanWe should either remove the WPSes from the main build, or make them complete.
14:57:05LloreanRight now they're halfway.
14:57:12daurnimatorJdGordon: still, where do i get the uploader source :S
14:57:13bluebrotherthat indeed is questionable. But was changed to not include the fonts
14:57:27Lloreanbluebrother: Yep, because the fonts are large. But we'd only be including 3 fonts, I think.
14:57:29bluebrotherso I'd rather remove the wps from the svn builds.
14:57:56JdGordondaurnimator: the sim source you mean? svn... svn co svn:// rockbox
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14:58:21daurnimatori forgot, i'll need to setup a compile env again
14:58:33JdGordonjust grab the vmware image
14:58:46bluebrotherit's 4 fonts. Just checked ...
14:58:50daurnimatornot just that
14:59:07daurnimatordo we have the platform that zaurus is :P
14:59:21daurnimatorsome.. sort... of ... arm
14:59:21hen3rzhey guys i just installed the latest build on my gigabeat and the backlight has completley switched off
14:59:36JdGordonif gcc-arm-elf can compile for it we are good
14:59:47Lloreanhen3rz: Are you sure you've got the latest official build? And have you tried resetting your settings?
14:59:54hen3rzand i can barely see the screen so i cant navigate back to the settings to set it up higher
14:59:56Nico_PLlorean: yes, it crops when fonts are too big. I can change that quit easily
15:00:05Nico_Pdaurnimator: of course, scrolling still works
15:00:12LloreanNico_P: I just wanted to make sure it cropped, rather than drawing them on top of the line below. :)
15:00:24LloreanOverlap would be bad with scrolling, I imagine.
15:01:01Nico_PLlorean: actually now that you say it I'm not quite sure
15:01:07hen3rzLlorean: yes ive tried resetting my gigabeat but when i turn it back on the backlight is still switched off.
15:01:08markunhen3rz: you can reset them by switching on HOLD while rockbox is booting
15:01:09Nico_Pmaybe they overlap
15:01:14hen3rzand it is the current build
15:01:22LloreanNico_P: Overlapping is not good. :)
15:01:33hen3rzmarkup: ohh ok ill try that
15:01:44Lloreanhen3rz: Rockbox had a bug regarding the backlight a couple days ago, but it should be resolved in the most recent builds
15:02:00markunmarkup? :) nice typo
15:02:34daurnimatorJdGordon: finally, found somewhere that I can upload the full image :P
15:02:53daurnimatornow you have my fingerprint :S
15:02:54bluebrotheradding the fonts used by the shipped wps will add ~1.3MiB (uncompressed)
15:02:57hen3rzLlorean: im pretty sure this is i copied it over a couple secconds ago but ill do it again incase.
15:02:58bluebrotherunifont is quite big.
15:03:21Lloreanbluebrother: One of our WPSes requires unifont?
15:03:26*Llorean did not know that.
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15:04:14bluebrotheryes, UniCatcher
15:04:15JdGordondaurnimator: that key layout would be ok for rockbox.. you have the arrows and a few func keys... its close to the sansa layout, or you could use the hxxx layout
15:04:27hen3rzLlorean: ive just copied over the latest build
15:04:37bluebrotherthe other fonts are quite small, so it wouldn't be that an issue. But unifont is large.
15:04:41Lloreanhen3rz: Make sure to reset the settings as Markun said.
15:04:58daurnimatorJdGordon: on the back of the device is a slider that does up/down, ok and cancel.
15:05:00hen3rzLlorean: is that done while the the logo splash screen appears
15:05:10hen3rzLlorean: or while the gigabeat bar loads
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15:05:32Lloreanhen3rz: As soon as you turn on the Gigabeat, turn it on and leave it on.
15:05:34daurnimatorJdGordon: iaudio could be ok?
15:05:55JdGordondunno... /me doesnt know its keypad
15:06:34hen3rzLlorean: the backlight is still completely switched off.
15:07:15Lloreanhen3rz: And if you go back to the old build?
15:07:35hen3rzalso i do believe the settings have been reset as i can see that the height of the line selector has become alot smaller
15:08:00JdGordondaurnimator: ah yes, but the x5 lacks keys... with the sansa or hxxx you have a few more making it easier to use
15:09:41JdGordonfirst step is getting the cross compiling sdl working :)
15:10:20hen3rzLlorean: im trying them now, im going from the last working build to the latset one so far the build commited on the 9th works.
15:10:54daurnimatorit seems my DNS server is down
15:10:58daurnimatori can't do anything :(
15:11:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:12:47daurnimatoryay, its back
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15:16:06MmmmRight...I'm going to commit the recording countdown timer/repeat timer....any last minute objections? :)
15:17:34bluebrotherMmmm, are there any conflicts with the timers?
15:17:41hen3rzLlorean: the last working build for my player was released 2007-04-11 all the others switch my backlight off completeley
15:17:57Mmmmbluebrother: which timers?
15:18:21bluebrotherI remember there were timer conflicts once ... like reusing hardware timers
15:18:39bluebrotheror was that a different patch?
15:18:45Lloreanhen3rz: You tried the 12th ,13th, 14th, 15th, and "Current" or did you stop updating after you found where it stopped?
15:19:01hen3rz12th, 13th, 14th, 15th and current
15:19:17Mmmmbluebrother: ahh yes..that was the have a long memory grasshopper.... It's ok now!
15:19:47bluebrotherfine. Just want to prevent it getting reverted shortly ;-)
15:19:49Lloreanhen3rz: Strange, I have no problems with one newer than the 11th.
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15:19:55hen3rzthe 11th is the only build that loads with the back light switched on
15:20:03hen3rzi have a toshiba gigabeat s30
15:20:09hen3rzis yours the f series?
15:20:14Mmmmbluebrother: :)
15:20:16bluebrotherbtw, did you do the recording trigger screen?
15:20:39Lloreanhen3rz: You don't have an S
15:20:43Mmmmwell, I converted the trigger to SWtargets anyway
15:20:46bluebrotherwhy is that screen completely different to all others? It doesn't comply to any style
15:20:56hen3rzargh i mean x
15:21:05Mmmmits been like that for aeons...for the HWtargets
15:21:16MmmmI quite like it!
15:21:23hen3rzLlorean: sorry i mean x series
15:21:29Lloreanhen3rz: Unfortunately, if it only affects Xs, you're going to have to track down the specific revision.
15:21:31LloreanIt works fine on Fs
15:21:32bluebrotherwhile I like editing settings from the menus (like that patch of A_M did once) it should have the same appearance as all other settings screens
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15:21:48bluebrother(and someone please add the functionality of that settings patch again ;-)
15:23:10MmmmI dont know who originally made the trigger menu. I think that they have long since vanished. Its been there since before my time I think 2-3 years!
15:23:37hen3rzLlorean: well it seems there was a massive baclight revision made on the 12th
15:23:48bluebrotherthat's no excuse for that menu to not comply to the overall menu standard. It should get converted IMO.
15:24:20hen3rz12 Apr 22:12Jens Arnold
15:24:26Lloreanhen3rz: If it was made ON the 12th, it happened AFTER the daily build for the 12th
15:24:29Mmmmbluebrother: yeah, probably
15:25:04hen3rzso em i looking for changes made on the 11th
15:25:08Lloreanhen3rz: Odds are it was one of kkurbjun's commits.
15:25:12markunhen3rz: which Gigabeat do you have?
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15:25:23markunLlorean: yes, I was thinking that as well
15:25:25hen3rzmarkun: x30
15:25:41Lloreanhen3rz: Which SVN revision is your 11th build?
15:25:44Mmmmok.. here goes....
15:25:45markunhen3rz: congrats for having a X :)
15:26:01markunbut it looks like they are slightly different from the F. We had problems already with the USB code
15:26:26hen3rzLlorean: im not sure, i got this from the archived builds section
15:26:26markuntook us a while before we has USB code which worked on both F and X
15:26:43Lloreanhen3rz: Yes, go into the menu and CHECK for me.
15:26:52Lloreanhen3rz: System->Version
15:27:01austriancoderShould stuff like: audiohw_set_lineout_vol be implemented in an audio driver, when no target using this codec has a lineout (codec supports it)?
15:27:29Lloreanaustriancoder: Assuming you mean the Sansa, are you sure the dock port doesn't have a lineout?
15:27:54austriancoderLlorean: dock port?
15:28:18LloreanThe plug on the bottom.
15:28:29LloreanThat you most commonly connect the USB cable to
15:29:03austriancoderah.. okay.. i will dont touch the line out code
15:29:07Lloreanmarkun: Looks like it could be either one of kkurbjun's commits. I was hoping it could be narrowed to one, but his first of the two was 13103
15:29:25Lloreanaustriancoder: The iPods, and I think the H10 as well, have line-outs through that connector.
15:29:53markunLlorean: yes, probably. Pretty anoying that we don't have devs with both a F and X
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15:30:17markunstill secretly hoping that toffe can get his hands on some X60s :)
15:31:27Lloreanmarkun: It's possible we may need separate builds for the F and X, in the end.
15:31:38markunLlorean: yes
15:31:47markunnot a big problem really
15:32:35markunhen3rz: maybe you could talk to kkurbjun about is when he gets back
15:32:50Lloreanmarkun: What Kkurbjun changed was USB, maybe you should check on that, since you mentioned USB problems with the X already
15:33:28MmmmHmmm cant commit: "apps/recorder/icons.h' remains in conflict" but there is no conflict..... very strange...
15:34:19JdGordonMmmm: what are you commiting to that file?!
15:34:37Mmmmjust some new 7x7 icons
15:34:46hen3rzmarkun: ok, well its quite late here in australia and i think its time to get some sleep, ill leave my IRC open so i can check back when i wake up to see if any information is needed
15:34:47JdGordonoh ok.. your allowd to do that :)
15:34:51markunwell, he also made some changes to the setup of the GPIO pins, right? Or why did the button LEDs act weird?
15:34:54Mmmmoh ta :D
15:35:07markunhen3rz: maybe he will not even be here today
15:35:11markungood night
15:35:17hen3rzthanks for your help Llorean and markun
15:35:21hen3rzcyas later
15:35:22austriancoderfor what is used BIAS in audio codecs?
15:35:39Lloreanmarkun: Yeah, he did, but the intent was for USB and ATA, he wasn't *trying* to do anything LED related.
15:35:43LloreanHe just ended up doing so.
15:36:54Lloreanmarkun: The bigger problem was that if the LED backlight went off while USB was connected, it wouldn't come back on until you reconnected USB or shut down the player.
15:37:05LloreanSomewhat similar to "the LED backlight is constantly off" for the Xs.
15:41:51 Part Llorean
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15:50:15markunJdGordon: you're starting to sound like amiconn :)
15:50:28Mmmmthis isn't funny come I cant commit. I've done an svn update, there are no conflicts with icons.h, everything compiles nicely and yet "apps/recorder/icons.h' remains in conflict"
15:50:49JdGordonMmmm: have you got icons.h.* ?
15:51:01JdGordon.rxxxxx and .mine
15:51:44Mmmmdoesnt it like those?
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15:52:04JdGordonit doesnt.. delete them both
15:52:08JdGordonthen your good to go
15:52:17Mmmmhokey de dokedy...
15:52:30JdGordonsounds like your going to break my icons patch :( is a truly tiny change!
15:56:56LearRun "svn resolved" on the files it complains about (after fixing them, ofcourse).
15:57:07MmmmGod, that was tedious...having to delete all thos .mine and .rxxxxx files
15:57:22Mmmmit worked though
15:57:39MmmmLear: what does svn resolved do?
15:58:04 Join wigix [0] (
15:58:12LearIt tells svn that you have fixed the conflicts.
15:58:59Mmmmahh right, would that automatically delete the files then?
15:59:07LearMaybe all it does is deleting the extra files. Might do something more though.
15:59:23Mmmmafter deleting it worked
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16:00:55*bluebrother awaits the red size delta ...
16:02:40PaulJamJdGordon: with the icons patch, is it possible to assign an icon to unknown filetypes (so every file has an icon)?
16:03:11JdGordonI might add two icons for that, one for unknown files and one for known file without a icon
16:04:38LearSlasheri: Do we accept anonymous code now of a sudden? :)
16:05:19LearNot that it was much code...
16:07:31daurnimatorJdGordon: i've got the vmware image now :D
16:07:46JdGordongoodo :)
16:07:59daurnimatornow to extract :P
16:08:18Mmmmred size delta in orbit
16:08:30bluebrotherMmmm, hide before amiconn comes back ;-)
16:08:33 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
16:08:37SlasheriLear: hmm, in fact not sure about that. However, as author also said, it was mainly a copy/paste addition
16:08:52bluebrotherbut why is there even that much red delta even for the player?
16:09:26MmmmI added a multi int setting for everybody to handle the menu
16:09:57markunLear, Slasheri: actually I don't think it's such a big problem now I think about it again. It's just like taking any other piece of GPL code and including it.
16:10:30markunWe didn't put the guys who made the various audio decoders in our credit file either
16:10:32daurnimatorJdGordon: booting :P
16:11:17bluebrotherMmmm, why do you store the time in h/m/s instead of a long holding the seconds only?
16:11:53bluebrotherlooks a bit like waste to me
16:11:54LearOnly reason I mentioned it was because of all the discussions when certain patches weren't accepted when the author refused to reveal his real name...
16:11:58JdGordon3k deltas!
16:12:07Mmmmit was just easier to handle
16:12:07markunLear: yes, I remember those
16:12:19markunmaybe we shouldn't care so much
16:12:36Mmmmmaybe ill think about changing it...
16:12:47bluebrothereasier to handle? that trigger_listener looks quite overcomplicated to me ...
16:13:05 Join Arathis [0] (
16:13:10bluebrotherwith all this if / else if clauses
16:13:54Mmmmyou mean the tick task?
16:14:13JdGordonrevert!!! revert1!!
16:14:24LearChanging existing .lang strings? (And not completely change them too.)
16:14:27 Quit fm2 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
16:15:00Mmmmoh seems to be going down like a lead balloon
16:15:14Mmmmit is quite heavy i suppose
16:15:42bluebrotheryes, I mean tick_task. Looks like viewvc was fooling me
16:15:44JdGordonint value[varcount]; <- you can do that?
16:15:53preglowholy shit
16:15:56preglow3k for that feature
16:16:04bluebrotherJdGordon: yes, with c99
16:16:25bluebrotherbut I'm not exactly sure how it's supposed to allocate the space.
16:16:36Mmmmfor the lang string, should I change the source too?
16:16:51JdGordonbluebrother: i guess on the stack,
16:17:11JdGordonFOR_NB_SCREENS(i) screens[i].getstringsize("3", &w, &h); <- wtf? that wont work
16:17:20bluebrotherhmm. Right, but then it would only work when creating variables on the stack. Should re-read the explanation for that again ;-)
16:17:20JdGordonwell.. the for is pointless
16:17:21Mmmmwhy not?
16:17:35preglowreally though
16:17:47preglowi think we should have an embargo on adding new features that eat space until romboxes are back
16:17:51bluebrothershouldn't getstringsize() return the same value regardless of the screen?
16:17:53JdGordonwell, either you store both sizes to the same variables, or the sizes will be the same
16:17:55preglowthis will be a neverending battle
16:18:26bluebrotherhmm, a feature freeze might be nice
16:18:34preglownot a feature-freeze as such
16:18:40bluebrotherto work on space saving for a while ...
16:18:41JdGordonpretty much it would be
16:18:49preglowbut if we want to have rombox back, we can't just add features
16:18:53bluebrotheryes, it would be more like a size-freeze :)
16:19:11preglowso either we declare that we don't want rombox, or we stop adding features until it's back, at which point we have some serious discussing to do
16:19:41bluebrotherisn't "no one is allowed to add new features" commonly called "feature freeze"?
16:19:53JdGordonMmmm: is the set_multi_int function 2k? did that patch affect the sansa at all?
16:19:56LearMmmm: source and dest should be the same for English. But better not change the meaning of a string like that. Confusing for voice file users.
16:19:58preglowbluebrother: features that don't eat size is ok
16:20:05pregloweating 3k for a feature almost no one will use just like that sure doesn't help things
16:20:12bluebrotherso call it "soft freeze" maybe?
16:20:23preglow"we want rombox back freeze" :>
16:20:54bluebrothersuch a freeze could also get used for concentrating on bugfixing
16:21:09preglowwe could use some of that now
16:22:06bluebrothermaybe freeze between devcon-EU and devcon-US? Then we just need enough time between both ;-)
16:22:13*JdGordon suggested that last week and got shouted down :D
16:22:31JdGordonwhat about devcon-melb ?
16:22:39bluebrothernah, too far
16:22:55daurnimatorwe can have ours whenever really
16:22:55bluebrotherbut I would like to visit SYD once again. Great city.
16:23:07preglowi really also miss some discussion around when features are added. right now, people can just add whatever they like, and i don't know if that's what's best for rockbox
16:23:16daurnimatorhow bout you also have a devcon-air
16:23:18daurnimator - on the flight
16:23:28preglowjust my opinion, of course
16:23:33bluebrotherpreglow: agreed
16:23:37JdGordonMmmm: why would anyone want to set a recroding a week in advance?
16:24:02daurnimatorthis is taking AGES to checkout rockbx
16:24:03JdGordonremove set_multi_int, store the record time in a single int and the size delta wont look so bad
16:24:12preglowi think this feature is waaay too elaborate
16:24:17JdGordonyou can use the formatter to make it still look nice
16:24:17bluebrothermaybe we should have more discussion of new features on the dev-ml?
16:24:18 Quit lids (Remote closed the connection)
16:24:24preglowbluebrother: i sure think so
16:24:50JdGordonbluebrother: i agree, but even there we dont usually come to an agreement
16:25:02preglowagreement is too much to hope for
16:25:04JdGordonwe need a heavy handed dictator !
16:25:16*markun votes for LinusN
16:25:19preglowbut at least the times when absolutely no one thinks a thing is a good idea gets through
16:25:24*JdGordon secnds markun
16:25:26preglowand some modifications might be done as a result
16:25:33*JdGordon also wonder shwere Mmmm vanished to :D
16:25:39*preglow votes for anyone i approve of which wants the job:>
16:25:43bluebrotherright. But currently if you're out of irc for a while you're like cut from development. And reading discussions on the ml is much more handy than reading the logs
16:26:04preglowdoing it on irc doesn't work
16:26:23preglowso dev-ml indeed
16:26:27preglowit doesn't see enough use anyway
16:26:41*bluebrother seconds preglow
16:26:50JdGordonMmmm: or at the very least, move set_multi_int into recordering_menu.c untill a non recording target needs it
16:27:01MmmmJdGordon: A few people have asked for a week! mad eh?
16:27:26JdGordonoverkill if you ask me :p
16:27:28Mmmmyes i thought about that but then i thought maybe it'd be usefull for clock setting etc
16:27:34Mmmmand other timers
16:27:34JdGordon24 hours would be a sane max imo
16:27:46Mmmmi tried that and there was an outcry! :D
16:27:55bluebrotherI would store the value in a long and only support to the maximum value it can get
16:28:14JdGordonwhich is a crazy amount of years!
16:28:16*bluebrother hands Mmmm some earplugs :D
16:28:22JdGordonno wait... 32 days
16:28:35*JdGordon checks...
16:28:36*bluebrother hasn't checked LONG_MAX
16:28:42JdGordonyes 32 days is longer than a week
16:28:43preglow2^31 - 1
16:29:24JdGordonMmmm: the other thing i dont like is you brought back the options sturct.... settings_list.c is supposed to handle all this
16:29:42preglowplease massage this patch further, though, 3k added for this is just crazy
16:29:48Mmmmbetter check the pilchards arent burning....
16:29:49preglownow, it's bikey time for me
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16:30:51bluebrotherhmm, 2^32-1 yields 49 days for me ...
16:31:55 Join TrueJournals [0] (
16:32:08daurnimator50 for me
16:32:24bluebrotherstill 49.7 days here ... does anyone know about a good RPN calculator for linux?
16:32:37*bluebrother hates non-RPN calculators
16:32:37JdGordonmy 1st year cs assignemnt :p
16:33:04JdGordongood way to teach trees in c :p
16:33:07daurnimatordo we minus 1 before or after? :P
16:33:17JdGordon(2^32) -1
16:33:49daurnimatorok, 48.71 - assuming the regular 1000/60/60/24
16:34:43JdGordonor... the max number of days win98 could run before crashing for sure :D
16:34:47bluebrother1000? it's 3600s / h ...
16:34:52 Quit wigix ("Leaving")
16:34:57bluebrotherwasn't that NT4 too?
16:35:55rifti have a question about ipod's nano batterie
16:36:07riftwhen i plug the batterie loader on the ipod
16:36:18riftit happend nothing
16:36:39daurnimatorSTILL getting checked out
16:38:20bluebrotherrift, explain "nothing"
16:38:43riftthe batterie metter doesn"t moove
16:38:48JdGordonbattery loader == carger?
16:38:58bluebrotherwhich "meter" are you referring to? wps? Statusbar?
16:39:20bluebrotherthe wps doesn't need to do that. This depends on the wps
16:39:40bluebrothergo to the menu and look at the status bar icon. Does it show some charging animation?
16:39:54riftno animation
16:40:13bluebrotherdo you have some charger icon in the status bar?
16:40:56rifti think it is charging the batterie
16:41:03riftbut it have no animation
16:41:43bluebrotherhmm, the mini doesn't seem to detect the power from usb as charger connection. Maybe it's the same issue
16:42:00bluebrotherif you have a charger icon in the statusbar it is charging.
16:42:16rifti havent charger icon, but the % on wps up
16:42:53bluebrotherthe wps doesn't need to show the default status bar (and most wps don't show it)
16:43:10bluebrotherI don't think there is a wps tag to indicate a connected charger.
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16:43:50riftit's no tag but after it was a 40% and now it's 50%
16:43:51bluebrothernow I know why the runtime was never reset on my mini :o
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16:45:21*linuxstb wonders if Slasheri is aware of the "no anonymous contributions" rule...
16:45:38chips[zof]hey, i'm having an issue installing the bootloader on an ipod. When i run ipodpatcher (0.9) it gives "image movement failed"
16:45:55chips[zof]ive had a search through irc logs and the wiki but there doesnt seem to have been much resolution
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16:47:21bluebrotherchips[zof], do you have any other bootloader installed? Like Loader2 of IPL?
16:47:46chips[zof]bluebrother: nope, fresh 30gig video ipod
16:47:53chips[zof]according to itunes it has the latest firmware on
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16:48:39linuxstbchips[zof]: What OS are you using?
16:48:49chips[zof]sorry, winxp, with admin privs
16:49:03linuxstbDoes it display anything else before that message?
16:49:35chips[zof][INFO] Moving images to create room for new firmware...
16:49:36chips[zof] Error reading from disk: The request could not be performed because of an I/O d
16:49:36chips[zof]evice error.
16:49:48linuxstbOK, that's more informative...
16:49:59chips[zof]does this channel have flood protection?
16:50:06linuxstbSo it sounds like an I/O error for some reason.
16:50:18Soapscorche is all the flood protection needed.
16:50:37linuxstbfloods are frowned upon...
16:50:58bluebrotherif you want to paste multiple lines use a pastebin ... if that is the reason for your question ;-)
16:51:03daurnimatorSTILL getting checked out
16:51:07daurnimatorhoq long does it take?
16:51:20daurnimatorbeen 40mins so far
16:51:51JdGordonwtf? its only 30mb...
16:52:00JdGordonis it actually doing anything?
16:52:15daurnimatorstarts a new file every second or so
16:52:27JdGordonwhich is it up to?
16:52:37bluebrotherdaurnimator, running on cygwin maybe?
16:52:41daurnimatorcurrently on rockbox/uisimulator/sdl/timefuncs.h
16:53:16JdGordondaurnimator: so your almost done...
16:53:28linuxstbchips[zof]: As I said, there's an I/O error which is your problem...
16:53:56chips[zof]hrm. is there any way to tell where that is? on the ipod, usb, OS?
16:54:00bluebrothermaybe there is a hub between ipod and pc that causes trouble?
16:54:18chips[zof]no hub, ill try a different usb port. the ipod works otherwise, i transferred the rockbox file onto it just before
16:54:22bluebrotheryou could also run a live linux system and try to use ipodpatcher from there
16:54:30linuxstbThe text "The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error." is from windows. Maybe google would help.
16:54:50daurnimatorJdGordon: its not alphabetical...
16:54:54daurnimatorWOOT done
16:56:02 Quit anathema ()
16:56:12chips[zof]ok. it just worked
16:56:19chips[zof]thanks, i moved it to a different usb port
16:56:19spiorf_hi, there are two songs in database without the corresponding files. how can i delete them without losing all play stats?
16:56:41spiorf_i tried to manually update the database, but didn't worked
16:57:12bluebrotheriirc you need to have dircache enabled for that to work
16:57:56spiorf_ok thanks, i think i disabled it, since its a flash player i thought it wasn't necessary
16:58:42bluebrotherhmm. Good point for flash players.
16:59:08Slasherispiorf_: you can export the database to database_changelog.txt
16:59:24Slasherispiorf_: that way you don't lose stats when re-initializing the db
16:59:52spiorf_so the "changelog" means play stats?
17:00:42Slasheriit contains almost everything the db has
17:00:51Slasheribut just playstats are imported atm
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17:04:50 Quit chips[zof] ("*) [Error: 0x3A4F4] (*")
17:04:54spiorf_anyway, enabling dircache worked :)
17:06:52spiorf_these ghost track made me really sad, since i abandoned shitunes and apple's firmware because of ghost tracks
17:07:13spiorf_at least with rockbox i don't have to delete everything and copy again
17:09:39 Quit moos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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17:11:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
17:15:30linuxstbSlasheri: Anonymous contribution?
17:21:27 Quit Mmmm (Remote closed the connection)
17:22:08 Quit kubiix (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:22:09Slasherilinuxstb: please check earlier what i said for Lear about that
17:22:55linuxstbI have.
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17:23:20linuxstbBut I disagree. AFAIK, Rockbox doesn't accept anonymous contributions, so the patch should have been rejected.
17:23:42Slasherihmm, i can revert that then. However, then i need to do similar one myself
17:23:50Slasheriand that is going to be almost identical
17:24:03linuxstbI think that's the right thing, given the policy.
17:24:14Slasheriok, i will revert it
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17:27:39tHEkINDIs anyone here ?
17:28:04tHEkINDOn the MPEGPlayer plugin page
17:28:28tHEkINDThe FPS for Iriver H10 5/6GB isn't displayed
17:28:41markuntHEkIND: maybe you can try it and fill in the values
17:28:43tHEkINDI assume you don't have the scores:
17:28:49tHEkINDI just done it
17:28:52markunah :)
17:29:09tHEkINDFor 128x96 it's 39/40
17:29:27tHEkINDand 128x128
17:29:31tHEkIND27.5 i think
17:29:45PaulJamSorry for causing this much trouble by posting this patch anonymously, i thougt it was no big deal...
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17:30:35tHEkIND29.6fo 128x128
17:30:52 Join inversions [0] (
17:31:27tHEkINDand nice job !
17:31:32markuntHEkIND: does the H10 screen have a 4:3 aspect ratio or 1:1?
17:31:57tHEkINDThe screen is 128x128
17:32:11tHEkINDWhen i read a 128x128 mpeg i see 128x128
17:32:19tHEkINDAnd 128x96 i see 128x128
17:32:23tHEkIND128x96 sorry
17:32:25markunI mean, is the screen square?
17:32:40markunor rectangular
17:32:48markunmaybe I should just google for it
17:32:49tHEkINDYes, the 5/6GB have a square screen
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17:34:32linuxstbmarkun: I don't think I did a 16:9 ratio elephants dream for the H10/5GB - it would have only been 128x72...
17:35:07tHEkINDI can test a 128x72 if you want
17:35:36linuxstbIt's OK, I would need to encode it first... It seems the H10 5GB won't struggle for full-screen video.
17:35:53linuxstbAlthough the user might...
17:36:22markunyes, it's not the best screen to watch videos
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17:37:11linuxstbAbout 10% the number of pixels of the Gigabeat...
17:37:25markunlinuxstb: I was thinking we maybe could replace transparent plastic of the Gigabeat case with a fresnel lense, what do you think?
17:37:27tHEkINDWhat the price of the gigabeat :D ?
17:37:44 Quit fm2 (Client Quit)
17:37:45markuntHEkIND: it was under $100 a few days ago
17:37:54markunbut all of them were sold (4000)
17:38:10markunthat was the F40
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17:39:10linuxstbmarkun: You've lost me...
17:39:33markunlinuxstb: a flat magnifying glass
17:39:49markunlike used in overhead projectors, but I've also seen them in credit card sizes
17:40:06linuxstbGoogle found me this picture :)
17:40:27tHEkINDYeah fresnel it's a fresnel lens
17:40:36tHEkINDMy college is named "fresnel"
17:40:37markunlinuxstb: exactly the one I was looking for :)
17:41:34tHEkINDSo MPEGPLayer rebuffers now ?
17:41:52tHEkINDI had some MPEG
17:42:21tHEkINDWith a frame for around 20 seconds on the beginning
17:42:22XavierGrI suppose that the only thing missing on mpegplayer is seeking (save optimisations)
17:42:37linuxstbPlaylists, resume, bookmarking etc
17:42:38 Quit kubiix (Client Quit)
17:43:15linuxstbAnd obviously people will want visual seeking...
17:43:39tHEkINDyes :D
17:43:46tHEkINDWIth a progress bar ^^
17:43:53*tHEkIND slaps himself
17:44:06markunlinuxstb: jhMikeS already has some nice ideas for overlay
17:44:23XavierGrlinuxstb: well yeah all that would be great, but seeking is the most important IMHO right now. Playlist? as a plugin?
17:45:10linuxstbPlaylist as in being able to play a sequence of videos
17:46:14*linuxstb afk
17:47:17markunlinuxstb: I was talking about something like this:
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17:49:56markunfor only $0.69 it could be worth a try
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18:00:59Soapjust don't leave your gigabeat out in the sun ;)
18:01:34markunI wonder how bad the image quality will be
18:01:57markunand maybe the distance between the screen and the case is not big enough
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18:04:07*davina is back (gone 06:11:33)
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18:06:41rogermuddHaving some troubles with my rockbox/ipod mini/ubuntu combination. Rockbox was working fine and then I plugged the device into a another machine running KDE. Now when I go back to *my* Ubuntu/Gnome machine the device is not recognized. Tried lsusb and dmesg and neither of those commands seem to indicate a working mass storage device. Any ideas?
18:07:10yossaholla, I just saw talk about fresnel lenses from markun in the logs. Just thought I'd tell from my experience
18:07:28markunyossa: please do
18:08:00yossathey won't work at all as a replacement for the plastic covering the screen
18:08:05yossaon any player
18:08:12yossait's too close
18:08:16markunaha, too bad
18:08:36 Quit FOAD ("Lost terminal")
18:08:45yossahowever, with a credit card sized lens, ou could manage a contraption that gives quite good results
18:09:01markunyossa: yes, I was also thinking about that
18:09:08yossaif you construct a high enough base
18:09:32markundid you do something like that?
18:09:34yossa2-3 cm should suffice for a lens that size, and I believe it actually was a product sold for gameboys
18:09:56yossaI have an A4 sized fresnel sheet
18:10:26yossait;s not the optical quality of the credit card ones, but it works - not portable of course :D
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18:10:53markunyossa: thanks for the info. I think I'll order a few
18:11:25yossathere will be distortions in the corners most likely
18:11:44yossabut it is an improvement (I tested on sansa)
18:12:04markunrogermudd: maybe you can reboot the ipod into disk mode
18:12:29markunor did you try that already?
18:13:13markunyossa: it's a lot more fun to watch videos on my Gigabeat than I imagined :)
18:13:30rogermuddmarkun: how do you do that? Menu+Select and then Select+Play immediately afterward?
18:13:52markunrogermudd: I'm not sure, but it should be in the IpodFAQ wiki page
18:14:17rogermuddmarkun: Okay. I'll check. Thanks.
18:14:26markunyossa: about to watch episode 4 of Twin Peaks :)
18:14:51yossalove the series, twin peaks on the run sounds good :
18:15:19preglowtwin peaks rocks
18:15:22markunI fell asleep during the pilot (because it was very late) and without seeking support that sucks
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18:19:30yossamarkun: I just checked the website - the credit card sized ones have focal lenght of 160 mm - which means that best optical results will be achieved when you hold the lens at that distance from subject.
18:20:02yossait probably means just a lesser magnification when it's closer than that, but I would check with the company
18:20:06 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:20:43yossaand ask what is the closest distance you can use it without blurring
18:21:45rogermuddmarkun: Doesn't seem to be working. Just stuck at the boot screen with the Apple logo. (BTW - to boot into Apple firmware you switch on the hold switch immediately after resetting).
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18:32:54schizmbeen wanting to rockbox my sansa e260 for a while, i see a version is up now, anyone here tried it out?
18:33:12rogermuddmarkun: okay. was able to get into disk mode resetting and holding down select and play after resetting.unfortunately, i'm getting this error as described by dmesg "can't set config #1, error -32"
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18:36:47yossaschizm: what do you want to know, I've got e250
18:37:14schizmjust opinions on whether it's a good upgrade? No brainer to do?
18:37:31schizmim relatively happy with the current setup after a lot of twiddling and a 3rd party playlist generator
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18:41:03yossaschizm: well, sound is still better in original firmware (at high volume settings), but with yesterday's commit rockbox on sansa sounds really good. Plus you'll have all the other nice features.
18:41:40schizmyossa: what do you consider "nice features". ive skimmed the release docs and dont see anything super applicable, but im probably missing a bunch
18:42:29rogermuddEureka. Seem to have fixed the problem. Had to make sure it was plugged into a powered USB port. I thought my monitor's (Dell 2005fpw) ports were powered. Evidently not. Plugged it into the front of my tower while in disk mode and I'm now able to access the contents of the ipod. Thanks all for your help.
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18:43:35yossaschizm: depends on what you want to get out of your player. Rockbox has some really robust controls for audio playback. I'm sure you know about games and other plugins.
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18:44:46schizmyossa: I guess I might as well try it out...from what I gather it's easy to go back to default firmware should I need to? ie. I'm not risking bricking my player anymore with the contemporary releases?
18:45:01yossahere's a page listing rockbox features in comparision to other firmwares (no sansa):
18:45:31yossaas long as you follow the installation guidelina
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18:47:08schizmthanks yossa, appreciated
18:47:24yossano problem
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18:54:05preglowloadable icons looks nice
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19:00:50 Join thegeek [0] (
19:01:20pearldiverpreglow it seems the patch doesn't work anymore
19:04:01spiorf_pearldiver, i had the same problem
19:04:18spiorf_if you want i can give you a fixed patch
19:04:28pearldiverspiorf_ would be nice
19:05:29pearldiverspiorf_ do you also patch with the new dict patch by any chance?
19:05:55spiorf_pearldiver, no, only that and wps_line_height
19:07:18toffe82for the ones who want a gigabeat F60 :
19:07:25spiorf_it's only "extern const unsigned char bitmap_icons_7x7[Icon7x7Last][7];" added at line 103
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19:08:51pearldiverspiorf_ somehow the latest version gave me an error with bookmarks.c while compiling
19:09:06spiorf_it worked fine here
19:09:17spiorf_(ipod nano)
19:11:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:12:17spiorf_pearldiver, the thing that i don't really understand is why that patch applied until today, because the rejected file didn't changed in some weeks
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19:15:24rifti tried to run rockboy on ipod nano, but when i am in this screen i didn't find the key to select
19:15:28rift 070415-190910.bmp
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19:16:31pearldiverspiorf_ that worked
19:19:45spiorf_rift, try tapping the scrollwheel in different position
19:19:58spiorf_not pressing, only put finger on
19:21:13riftit doesn't work
19:21:24riftbut i have tried to change the key with the menu
19:21:59rifthow to reset the key config ?
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19:28:38pearldiverspiorf_ what set of icons do you use?
19:29:10pearldiveri find it a bit confusing now since the viewers icons became the separate file
19:29:47pearldiverlets say i want to use aliask's icons
19:30:13pearldiverin in /.rockbox/icons i have
19:30:41spiorf_i use this
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19:30:55spiorf_but since trying to load a icon theme made my player crash
19:31:22spiorf_i copy that file before compiling in apps/bitmaps/native/
19:32:50spiorf_pearldiver, where did you find that icon theme?
19:33:21pearldiverit seems *.config should be *.icons
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19:37:06pearldiverwell i cant get viewers icons to work
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19:40:28telliottI have a question about the newer Archos V1 recorder builds, with the new menu.
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19:41:36telliottThe "save poweroff" function doesn't work from the main menu
19:42:53telliottI meant "safe poweroff"
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19:48:39pearldiverpreglow how did you go about viewers icons?
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19:50:48stripwaxif only the custom icons supported alpha blending too
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19:51:24preglowpearldiver: by watching a screenshot
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19:53:14riftwhich version of gcc do you use to compile rockbox ?
19:54:13TrueJournalsrift: Read the CrossCompiler page on the wiki
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20:00:12riftyes but i'am using gcc-3.4.6 and it fail
20:01:08TrueJournalsDid you read the page? You need special version of gcc for different targets. Use the rockboxdev script to set up a good environment
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20:05:59pearldiverpreglow HA
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20:19:23scorcheSoap: but i cant be here 24/7 ;)
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20:25:10flyinghippoHello, I have a quick question.
20:25:31ampleyflyaren't you going to ask for permission to ask it first?
20:25:33flyinghippoDo plugins such as the GnuBoy port and Doom plugin come included with Rockbox, or are they acquired from a different source?
20:25:49flyinghippoP.S. May the above question be asked?
20:26:34ampleyflysorry, I couldn't help myself :/
20:26:55bluebrotherflyinghippo, yes, they do
20:27:13bluebrotherjust use the "Browse Plugins" menu entry and see yourself ...
20:27:34SliMMbluebrother: that's for doom
20:27:52SliMMfor rockboy, just click the .gb or .gbc file
20:28:00bluebrotherdoom is included. Rockboy too.
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20:28:10TrueJournalsHowever, you'll need extra files to actually play doom
20:28:11bluebrotheryou still need additional game files, but the plugin itself is included.
20:28:42SliMMi've just finished playing pokemon on py ipod :D
20:28:43bluebrotherfor doom you can find needed files following the "extras" link on the site menu
20:31:29davinadoes anyone know if the midplayer plugin is supposed to work? I loaded the patchset for the instruments, but every time I play something I get the first few notes then it just goes crazy with "BUffer Miss!" errors
20:32:06bluebrotherit works fine for me
20:32:40davinais that on an iPod?
20:32:49bluebrotherno, on h120
20:32:56bluebrotherbut I could try on the mini
20:33:38SliMMdaviana: midi files play two times slower than the ipod can play
20:34:20SliMMso the ipod plays them too fast, and the buffer gets empty
20:34:34davinaah i thought it was sounding like a speeded up record
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20:35:27davinaoh well at least I know. i was just curious to get it working.
20:35:42SliMMi don't think you can
20:35:54davinabut at least the zx spectrum emulator plugin works :)
20:36:12SliMMrockboy also works :)
20:37:05davinayeah i havent tried that. i've tried doom and pacbox they're cool. would be nice to have sound tho, but I saw some1 has already requested that
20:37:46 Part TrueJournals
20:37:54SliMMit was hard to figure out the keybindings for rockboy
20:38:24 Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@freenode/staff/gnewsense.ompaul)
20:39:43*davina deletes the .mid files and patchset from the ipod
20:41:18bluebrotherdavina, I get tons of Buffer Miss! on the midi when trying to play a midi too.
20:41:42 Quit qwm (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:42:20davinaah ok. thx for testing it out
20:42:31 Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
20:42:49davinaits not a major problem. i only really use the .mid file on my phone
20:43:14davinaalthough my current ringtone is an mp3 of sonic the hedgehog intro lol
20:43:59pearldiverdoes anyone remember any good spectrum games?
20:44:05 Join TrueJournals [0] (
20:44:24SliMMi don't think i was even born when spectrum was out :))
20:44:28 Join Hammer89 [0] (
20:44:41pearldiveri have very bad memory about them
20:44:43*scorche pushes the off-topic conversation off the table
20:44:48pearldiverhardly can name 3 or 4
20:44:55scorchewhoops...missed a piece
20:45:00*scorche pushes that one off too
20:45:03pearldiverok ok
20:45:19davinai had a Sinclair ZX80, i was 13 at the time ;)
20:45:36scorchebah!...i thought i had them all!
20:45:47*scorche pushes davina off the table too
20:45:52 Join jhulst [0] (
20:46:50SliMMwhy don't you join #rockbox-offtopic for chatting (more or less related to rockbox)
20:47:04 Quit Hammer89 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:47:13scorche#rockbox-community actually
20:47:22 Join Hammer89 [0] (
20:47:51SliMMi just made that up, i didn't think there was a special chan for off-topic discussions
20:48:17TrueJournalsNor did I :-p
20:48:20linuxstbSliMM: The midi problem is that the plugin plays the midi files at 22.050KHz, but the ipod audio driver only handles 44.1KHz. So apart from it sounding wrong, the midi plugin needs to work twice as fast as it should to keep up with the DAC, which I'm guessing is the cause for the "Buffer Miss!" errors (i.e. buffer underruns).
20:48:55yipelol, after being around 0C for so long, 15C feels HOT HOT HOT
20:48:57SliMMlinuxstb: and was i wrong?
20:49:13yipeso fat.... like I'm wearing a winter coat of blubber 24/7
20:49:48SliMMyipe: ?
20:49:59linuxstbSliMM: I didn't understand your sentence "midi files play two times slower than the ipod can play"
20:50:06Hammer89rockbox plays midi...?
20:50:24yipeah, this isn't the chan I thought it was!
20:50:27TrueJournalsonly on some targets, I believe
20:50:50bluebrotherHammer89, yes. Seems to not work nicely on ipods though
20:51:00SliMMisn't 22.050KHz two times slower than 44.1KHz?
20:51:00bluebrotherbut I used it on h120 and it was fine.
20:51:10Hammer89Cool... anyone know if it works on the sansa?
20:51:22scorcheSliMM: that is not a measure of speed...
20:51:51linuxstbSliMM: I think you were trying to say the same as me, it's just I didn't understand you...
20:52:39SliMMlinuxtb: i'll re-read the wiki for better understainding :) and the old phisics manual for frequencys
20:52:47pearldiverim little confused about key mapping for zxbox
20:55:17TrueJournalsSliMM: "physics"?
20:55:36 Quit GodEater_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
20:56:02SliMMyes, yes
20:57:20SliMMscorche: i've read about frequencies
21:00:47SliMMhow many decimals should i use for the fixed-point representation of sqrt(3) in my cubis game?
21:03:20 Join GodEater_ [0] (
21:04:10 Part TrueJournals
21:08:38pearldiverhow do i map gigabeat controls for the zxbox?
21:08:38 Quit Hammer89 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
21:10:32davinanot sure pearldiver , i'm having problems getting vkeyboard to get a game started at the mo
21:11:08davinadoes the gigabeat have a hold switch, as that seems to bring up the menus if that what u were after
21:11:16***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:11:18 Quit qcsimon ("Ex-Chat")
21:11:35pearldiveri see the options
21:11:59pearldiverbut how do i actually map up down left right
21:12:33 Join fm2 [0] (i=95e13c87@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:13:10fm2Aua! A commit with +3K binary size!
21:13:13davinawell that is kinda my problem right now too. the game i am trying to start allows for a kempston joystick, so I enabled that option but I cant get the game started
21:13:16fm2Nico_P: ping
21:13:43pearldiverdavina lets keep trying
21:15:33Nico_Pfm2: pong
21:16:28fm2Nico_P: I think we shouldn't make the wps parser that tolerant. I think it should be very minimalistic and stick to "fast death", i.e. if something is not OK just not load the WPS. But we could provide a plugin that would check a WPS and tell whether it's ok and if not provide meaningful error maessages
21:17:27davinapearldiver, ok i'll try a bit more
21:18:01fm2This would save binary size and would bein line with the UNIX philosophy: do exactly one thing but do it well
21:18:33linuxstbWouldn't that mean writing two parsers though?
21:18:34fm2petur: here?
21:19:46Nico_Pfm2: I think we need a compromise. I assume you're referring to the conditinal closing when you say "too tolerant"... I don't think it's too much
21:21:31linuxstbSo you've basically made the closing tag optional?
21:21:35roolkuNico_P: people might get lax with the wps design and when the syntax is changed and suddenly requires closed tags (to distinguis from a different meaning) it will break
21:21:40fm2Nico_P: I think checks are made elsewhere as well (but I'm not sure). What about picture tags?
21:22:00*linuxstb was about to say the same as roolku - just look at the mess html parsers are today
21:22:05*preglow agrees
21:22:10preglowstrict syntax, please
21:23:35roolkuNico_P: I would splash a minimal error message: "syntax error in line xx" to help with the debugging
21:24:25 Join amiconn [0] (
21:24:42Nico_PThe implicit closing was mainly intended for cases where we don't parse the whole code
21:25:23Nico_Pe.g. too many sublines or a comment
21:25:28 Join Hammer89 [0] (
21:25:51Nico_Pbut I agree the syntax should be strict
21:25:59davinapearldiver, what player are you using?
21:26:17fm2I like fast death. Also if there are too many strings etc
21:26:46davinai managed to get the vkeybaord to do something but not sure how you'd do it on gigabeat.
21:26:49Nico_Pfm2: in some cases the WPS can still be displayed
21:26:52 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
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21:26:57pearldiverdavina tell me
21:27:13Nico_Pso a splash saying the parsing wasn't completely successful would be good ?
21:27:17fm2Nico_P: but it's still not clean -> death
21:27:42linuxstbNico_P: I think we're saying that if it's not 100% perfect, reject it...
21:27:50davinain the vkeyboard, once the ursor is over the character you want to use, I press play/pause, then select and that seems to send the key to zxbox
21:27:51fm2Nico_P: yes. Without a reason. But a plugin for in depth analysis with meaningful messages would be good
21:27:56bluebrotherwhy a splash in all cases? That could be part of the sim build
21:28:07amiconnWhy does this obscure timer feature add so much, even for targets without recording?
21:28:22bluebrotherbut I don't think it's useful on the target −− you won't edit the wps on the target anyway
21:28:41bluebrotherand an additional splash only consumes additional bytes ...
21:28:45fm2bluebrother: but you can try to load a bad WPS
21:28:54preglowamiconn: i think he added some settings code which will be left in for other targets too, in case someone wants to use them
21:28:57bluebrotheryes, but then the parser could simply fail
21:28:59preglowamiconn: the clock settings was mentioned
21:29:03fm2bluebrother: and you will wonder why nothing happens
21:29:07preglowamiconn: but i agree it's way too large for what it does
21:29:12amiconnThen there's a 64 bit sim warning that needs to be fixed
21:29:22preglowif every feature were to be this size, rockbox would be huge
21:29:32amiconnAnd this multi-value int setting doesn't look like it received a lot of testing
21:29:35Nico_Pamiconn: it's one of mine but I don't know how to dix it :(
21:29:50bluebrotherfm2, maybe a user will wonder. But he will also learn that something is wrong ...
21:30:08bluebrotherwe didn't had a warning if the font for a theme was not present for like ages.
21:30:37pearldiverdavina in the vkeybaord if i press select over the character it doesnt give me any further menu, just goes back to the game screen
21:30:43fm2bluebrother: may be. I don't know. But my first thought was "display a message"
21:31:12fm2What is if a font file has bad format? What happens then? I've never tried.
21:31:18Nico_PI'd say fail and display a message saying so
21:31:22bluebrotherI don't know.
21:31:42fm2We could do the same for a WPS as we do for a font
21:31:57Nico_Pbut in some case we can simply warn, e.g. when the string buffer is full
21:32:33amiconnscreens[i].puts(0, 5, buf); <= this is going to break in a lot of cases
21:32:45amiconn(break == being invisible)
21:33:01Nico_Pamiconn: it's a buffer for constant string
21:33:12fm2Nico_P: I agree with linuxstb: not 100% perfect -> fail (I mean 100% and not 99.9%)
21:33:13Nico_Plike "paused", "stopped", spaces
21:33:25amiconnI'm not talking about the buffer
21:33:51amiconnI mean the position will be out of view
21:33:58XavierGrwow! 2800 bytes for v2 recorder!
21:34:45XavierGr5120 for H10 strange numbers
21:34:48amiconnYes, and over 4K for arm targets with recording
21:35:10amiconnThe H10 and sansa number can be nearly ignored since the mi4 move
21:35:32amiconnThey always go up or down in 1K blocks
21:35:41linuxstbpreglow: I agree with what you said earlier about features needing to be discussed before committing...
21:35:41fm2Nico_P: or, in case of not 100% perfect, call a fixed plugin (like System->Version) to gather error messages. But this is already too much luxus
21:36:13bluebrotherdoes mi4 always pad up to 1k blocks?
21:36:20amiconnLooks like it
21:36:31Nico_PI'll make some changes ASAP but won't be able this evening... anyway I'm not too much in favor of the plugin
21:36:48davinapearldiver, press the play key first, then press select
21:36:50Nico_Pa small message won't be too much and for more details the creator can use the sim
21:37:35bluebrotherwhy not add such messages on sim builds only?
21:37:44bluebrotherI really don't see a reason why this is needed on the target.
21:37:46fm2Nico_P: ok on my side. But this would mean a new entry in the lang file... But this will be a good UI.
21:38:06linuxstbbluebrother: Yes, there's a 512 byte header, and it rounds the size (including header) up to the nearest 1K.
21:38:58bluebrotherfm2, Nico_P: I just broke a font by adding some nonsense at the beginning of the file. It loads something (but the font doesn't look like expected) and doesn't display a message
21:39:18fm2bluebrother: imagine you're a normal user, not very familiar with all the wps details. And you get a wps file from someone and try to load it.
21:39:29 Join bawb2 [0] (
21:39:31fm2bluebrother: ... and nothing happens.
21:39:38 Join johnnyoc3 [0] (
21:39:48bluebrotherthen you decide the theme is broken because other themes work
21:40:00bluebrotheror you installed it wrongly
21:40:05markunlinuxstb: I think that 'not discussing features before commit' was also the reason why people has problems with sloth and he left
21:40:26peturjhMikeS ?
21:40:30fm2bluebrother: the font loader can't know that the font is broken if the header (I think there's one) is ok.
21:40:51bluebrotherI messed up the first characters to break the header in my test ...
21:41:10bluebrotherso if there is a header (which I assume) I most likely broke it.
21:41:18fm2bluebrother: ah, then that's an error in the font loader I'd say
21:41:24linuxstbOr maybe just broke it in a legal way...
21:42:18fm2petur: have you seen my last comment in FS #7030?
21:42:34peturre sprintf?
21:43:03*markun remembers he still wants to reimplement the font code
21:43:04 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
21:43:04fm2petur: yes. I was pretty sure that factoring out that funcs would reduce the bin size (not checked though)
21:43:26bluebrotheris the font loader supposed to warn on broken fonts at all?
21:43:48peturfm2: well it didn't, not even before I inlined them (delta was 152 bytes for h300)
21:44:04fm2bluebrother: I'd fall back to the system font then. And to the built in WPS.
21:44:07bluebrotherok, the sim displayed "Failed font header load"
21:44:22bluebrotheron the console that is.
21:44:26peturfm2: leaving out %p didn't make much of a difference
21:44:38amiconnThis feature bloats the binary so much - and I even can't find the promised timer????
21:45:06fm2petur: hmm... weird. Maybe because type conversion (int->long) is performed where it's not needed? But that shouldn't be the case on H300 since int=long there
21:45:10peturfm2: I'm looking into something else now, will come back to it later
21:45:11amiconnAh, it's under split settings
21:45:29*amiconn wouldn't have expected it there
21:45:45peturfm2: did your last patch work from my changes?
21:46:12amiconn...and it's not possible to set the timer!!!!
21:46:35*amiconn is tempted to revert it asap
21:46:37fm2petur: you mean was your patch OK? Frankly said, I haven't tested (hide)
21:46:51 Quit bospaadje ("great minds run in great circles")
21:47:06markunamiconn: I think reverting is a good idea
21:47:12peturfm2: I had cleaned it up a bit and optimized a bit too
21:47:19amiconnmmmm isn't even here :(
21:47:32markunlets tell him first
21:47:33linuxstbWouldn't it be more diplomatic to ask the committer to revert?
21:47:38markunlinuxstb: yes
21:47:43fm2petur: I would remove %i but add %p since RB makes heavy use of pointers. But OTOH we could just convert them to long and then use %lx.
21:48:20bluebrotheroh, nice. Segfault when playing around with the recording timer settings in the h120 sim :o
21:48:29peturfm2: all our targets are 32bit for now anyway ;)
21:48:30amiconnlinuxstb: It would, but he isn't here
21:48:32fm2petur: yes, I've noticed that you removed (l)sign. Nice improvement
21:48:36 Join robin0800 [0] (
21:49:05peturfm2: if only binsize would go down ;)
21:49:19bluebrotherfm2, what is %p supposed to do anyway? I never saw that in printf syntax
21:49:41 Join bospaadje [0] (
21:49:43dionoeait prints an address
21:49:48fm2petur: I think a pointer can be converted to long on all platforms. So I'm not really sure now. I just wanted to print some pointer values and was struck by the fact RB doesn't support %p.
21:49:56bluebrotheryes, but what with that pointer? Print the address the pointer is pointing to?
21:50:07peturI'd use %lX
21:50:08bluebrotheror the address of the pointer itself?
21:50:18dionoeathe address it's pointing to
21:50:29peturand also: stick with upper case hex
21:50:30dionoeain hex
21:50:33bluebrotherhmm. Is that in some way standard?
21:50:45bluebrotheror common?
21:50:46dionoeait is
21:50:51fm2petur: %x and %X do the same (I've taken back the difference)
21:51:02bluebrotheroh. Never stumbled across that."> <= this is all I see on Ondio FM. And it's impossible to set a value
21:51:49bluebrotherhmm. man printf doesn't know %p, at least on my box.
21:51:52fm2petur: but then you must not forget to write (long) p in the param list, i.e. do explicit type cast. Otherwise you can get serious problems if sizeof(void*) != sizeof(long)
21:52:08preglowamiconn: i'm pro-revert
21:52:08peturfm2: sure
21:52:28preglowi think the feature bloats too much for such a seldomly used feature
21:52:30amiconnAll I can do is increase/decrease The half-visible number to the far left, and cancel the screen (both with Off and Mode)
21:52:34fm2petur: so I think it would be a helpful addition
21:53:17fm2petur: but %x and %X can still do the same and we really don't need %i. That was too much
21:53:30amiconnWe surely want a recording timer, but somehow this doesn't look like the right way to me
21:53:49pearldiverdavina figured it out!
21:53:59preglowall targets should have rtc!
21:54:19pearldiverwould be nice to have the zxbox in landscape mode on gigabeat though
21:54:24amiconn(plus the setting doesn't work at all, and it causes NULL pointer accesses)
21:54:43davinapearldiver, yeah, it works well on the ipod
21:54:48fm2petur: and factoring out funs should decrease bin size. It probably depens on the build environment (compiler version etc) So one has to make a clean build and then a patched one
21:54:55amiconnpreglow: We don't exactly need a rtc for a working recording timer
21:54:59fm2I'll try now
21:55:05*davina is away: off to watch TV
21:55:39 Part fm2
21:55:59linuxstbpetur: You're keeping quiet about Mmm's patch...
21:55:59preglowamiconn: i know, but if every target had rtc, we could just use the already existing record on wakeup ;)
21:56:21*petur knows nothing about the timer patch
21:56:31amiconnThis should already work on rtc targets iiuc
21:56:53amiconnpetur: Doesn't look like this patch was discussed much, or even at all
21:57:11peturfrom what I read in the forum it's not very accurate too...
21:57:27amiconnIt was opened by mmmm and updated several times. No other comments, and I didn't see any discussion here in the channel either
21:57:44petur ?
21:58:36amiconnThe forum seems so unrelated to the tracker ...
21:59:08 Nick qwx is now known as qwm (
21:59:08*amiconn doesn't want to check a hundred places for developer-related things
21:59:14preglowsure, but all discussion can't happen on the tracker
21:59:20amiconnThere's the tracker, the channel, and the mailing lists
21:59:35preglowand the forums
21:59:45preglowthey're there, so we have to expect people will use them
22:00:01preglowand i don't see how it's any more unrelated to the tracker than the mailing list
22:00:15 Quit YouCeyE (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:00:52markunmaybe we need a special forum section to discuss new ideas/code?
22:00:54bluebrothermaybe we should try moving such discussions more to the ml. The forums have quite some non-dev related stuff
22:01:14preglowthe forums are a nice place for non-dev people to talk about patches
22:01:45preglowif we move such discussions to the ml, less people will comment, i'm pretty sure about that
22:01:50amiconnThe forums are so much jabber that I honestly don't take the time to read them unless someone points me to a specific thread
22:02:07pearldiveris it worth adding a feature request to make the zxbox for landscape mode (gigabeat target)?
22:02:08linuxstbHow accurate is the 100Hz tick on Coldfire?
22:02:23preglowi usually just browse it pretty superficially
22:02:30preglowwatch for threads i'm interested in
22:02:35 Quit johnnyoc3 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:02:57amiconnlinuxstb: Long-term accuracy is quite good, but single ticks might be delayed
22:03:09amiconn(when boosting or unboosting)
22:03:12markunpearldiver: I would prefer a request for general rotation support
22:03:22linuxstbSo in principle is fine to use for long-term (i.e. many days) timed recordings?
22:03:27*petur finds the forums easier to read/comment on online
22:03:41markunpetur: me too
22:03:44amiconnlinuxstb: Yes.
22:04:16preglowi find the forums decent enough, but i just watch specific sections of it
22:04:30preglowit's a bit too much to read all of it
22:04:54*petur too
22:05:01bluebrotherif a discussion gets lenghy the forums can get quite confusing. Email is much nicer
22:05:06pearldivermarkun yes
22:05:08markuncan't we have a dev only section?
22:05:23*amiconn agrees with bluebrother
22:05:27bluebrotherno small edit boxes and weird html-like syntax. Plain text :)
22:05:46amiconnAnd it would be even better if all people would thread & quote properly
22:05:48preglowsure, ml is nicer, but that on the other hand forces me to go through tons of stuff i really don't care about
22:05:57*bluebrother seconds amiconn
22:06:11*preglow hands out pros and cons to everyone
22:06:17preglowmarkun: what would that help, really?
22:06:55bluebrotherthere is already a section that is only visible to members of the staff group (or similar, don't know about the details)
22:07:01markunpreglow: then amiconn can collapse the other sections
22:07:02preglowlike this thread, it didn't start off as a dev thread, it became one. should it be moved, then?
22:07:38preglowshould we start catering to people who can't be bothered to read every ml post either, then? :)
22:07:59markunI don't read every ml post
22:08:11preglowif amiconn doesn't choose to read the forums, that's his problem, not ours. i like the way it's sectioned
22:08:24preglowme neither, but i don't ask for features to make them not be sent to me, heh
22:08:35scorchethe only section that is visible to everyone on the staff is Administration / Forum business
22:08:44bluebrotherI don't read every ml post too, but it's nicer to keep track of interesing conversations
22:09:01amiconnI stopped reading the forums after the big resturcture
22:09:24markunamiconn: why?
22:09:41scorcheheh...that is when i started reading the entire forums
22:10:23amiconnBefore the restructure, the interesting posts were closer together
22:10:37markunamiconn: for me it's the other way around
22:10:42amiconnNow I'd have to wade through the whole forum to maybe find some interesting ones
22:10:58markunI can now ignore all the installation questions for example
22:11:20preglowthe same for me
22:11:24preglowi never read those
22:11:30preglowi mostly stick to general, audio playback and recording
22:11:36preglowwhich is what i care about, so hooray
22:12:03amiconnBy target allowed to check specifically for the targets I have. Like e.g. I could help with installation questions for Ondio, but not for gigabeat
22:12:21markunamiconn: and you can't now?
22:12:39amiconnI can, if I check the whole sub-forum for relevant posts
22:13:00markunyou mean the whole "Archos - Installation/Removal/Flashing" ?
22:13:01preglowamiconn: you don't really have to do that each time, you know...
22:13:03scorchewell, installation topics are set by "family" now...not much of a difference...just you have *only* installation topics in there instead of ones about games, hardware, other random threads
22:13:14preglowthere aren't so many posts each day that you can't easily spot new ones
22:13:16amiconnBack when the restructure happened, I thought it was for the better, but at least for me the opposite is true
22:13:43bluebrotheronly the installation sections are separated by model now.
22:13:48*preglow wonders if it's possible to maintain a list of topics i care about with the forums
22:14:22markunpreglow: yes, like like the 'star' function in gmail (if you are familiar with it)
22:14:31scorchehaving threads that are relevant to all targets be hidden in an ipod thread was most definitely not the way to go imo
22:14:43*bluebrother wants to set flags on arbitrary post like he can do in his email client
22:15:01preglowmarkun: i'm not, but i think i'll figure it out :)
22:15:16markunamiconn: if you tell us which subjects interest you which can't be found maybe we can split up some sections even further
22:16:03 Part yipe ("I changed my default message instead of doing homework")
22:17:38preglowdoesn't the entire point of the forum restructure vanish if we start splitting up by target again?
22:17:49amiconnSomehow the forum should have a way to display new posts.
22:17:54markunyes, and I wasn't suggestion that
22:18:02peturamiconn: it has
22:18:08bluebrotherhmm. There is this "new topics" button at the top
22:18:27bluebrotherbut I'm missing some ignore function
22:18:47pearldiverif anyone's interested, the keys for zxbox on gigbeat are 67890
22:19:01peturbut it doesn't quite work the way I expected
22:19:13markunbluebrother: funny, I never tried that button :)
22:19:16amiconnHmm, it's one of those buttons with nearly unreadable text :\
22:19:28amiconnWouldn't have spotted it without hint
22:19:36bluebrotherdepending on your screen resolution ;-)
22:19:52linuxstbpetur: It claims I have no unread topics, but I'm sure I haven't read everything...
22:19:57bluebrotherbut it's placed a bit strange −− didn't spot it the first time myself
22:20:05peturlinuxstb: exactly
22:20:28markunlinuxstb: maybe you are not logged in?
22:20:29bluebrotherespecially as the other buttons are rather larger
22:20:34*amiconn has 43 pages of "new" topics, haha :\
22:20:43linuxstbmarkun: I am.
22:20:45preglowthey're just unread
22:21:19linuxstbAnother link -
22:21:21amiconnThe button is labeled <small><small>"NEW TOPICS"</small></small>
22:21:28bluebrotherbut I discovered some strange behaviour a while ago too: while it works as expected from my machine at home the pc at uni doesn't display all unread messages
22:21:36scorchesmf actually handles new posts much better than any other open forum software i have seen
22:22:23bluebrotherurgh. That button for the recent posts is really hard to fing.
22:22:42scorcheit is just at the top...
22:22:54markunamiconn: why do you want to see all unread posts if it includes things like gigabeat installation problems which doesn't interest you?
22:23:48amiconnmarkun: How can I tell whether it interests me or not with the new structure?
22:24:21markunamiconn: by looking only in te sections which interest you
22:24:40scorcheamiconn: from the old structure, how could you even know about relevant topics in, say, the ipod forum that you would want to pay attention to?
22:24:48amiconnThere are no such specific sections, so I need to look at the thread title
22:25:02markunamiconn: which sections are you missing?
22:25:15*bluebrother likes thread titles like "help" really much :(
22:25:16amiconnBut browsing the 1st four pages of "new" posts, I can't find anything that sounds interesting...
22:25:54linuxstbThat's just because there are very few interesting threads...
22:26:05 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
22:26:42linuxstbI don't think the forum structure could be changed - unless we create a moderated "interesting threads" forum.
22:26:56markunamiconn: and with the old structure you found more interesting threads?
22:27:02amiconnmarkun: yes
22:27:27amiconnThere was quite a number where I even posted to
22:27:42amiconnI stopped posting to the forum since then...
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22:28:54*amiconn is annoyed more than enough for today and a few more days :(
22:29:01Hammer89quick question... is there an RSS feed anywhere for the changelog/daily-builds?
22:29:13markunamiconn: sorry
22:29:38*amiconn should perhaps reconsider stopping rockbox development
22:30:11moosjust for those rare commits?
22:30:24moosrevert is always possible
22:30:28linuxstbamiconn: I think everyone has agreed with what you've said today...
22:30:56preglowif you'll read the logs you'll even find i have said more
22:31:13preglownot something you see every day
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22:33:10 Quit Hammer89 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:33:25 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.") have_tagcache is pretty broken
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22:33:53preglowscorche: is that going to be removed when we have rombox again, btw?
22:34:19preglowi find ifdefs we don't strictly need mildly annoying :>
22:35:05amiconnpreglow: It looks like we won't get rombox back for all archoses. Maybe for a while, with [IDC]Dragon's changes (if we ever see them committed, that it)
22:35:34preglowhe should post a work in progress somewhere
22:35:41amiconnIt's not so much about this, but rather about testing features before committing
22:36:01preglowyeah, and if you read the logs, you'll find i have already proposed that new features be announced on the ml for discussionm
22:36:06scorchepreglow: well, the problem is, for how long will we have rombox?...if we end up forking it, then of course it will be removed in the fork...otherwise, only unless there is a large consensus about removing it, as it seems other people have been using it on other devices as well for various reasons
22:36:07amiconnThis timer thing simply doesn't work on the 1st arbitrary target I used for testing
22:36:10moosamiconn: let's mmmm came back for revert
22:36:14preglowsomething jdgordon to my great delight has already started doing
22:36:47amiconnYes, JdGordon now usually asks for testing new code before committing it
22:37:05moosmmmm isn't here much
22:37:11moosJdGordon is
22:37:19preglowsomeone revert the commit and i bet he'll show up :>
22:37:20linuxstbmoos: That's the problem...
22:37:30moosthat's what I meant
22:37:51linuxstbIMO, it should pretty much be required to be around IRC before, during and after committing things.
22:37:55preglowi'm pretty tired of features just suddenly appearing in rockbox, so i'd really like it if people announced stuff like new features on the dev-ml
22:37:58preglowit's what it's for, after all
22:38:07mooslinuxstb: amen
22:38:08amiconnlinuxstb: Thing is he even was here today around his commit
22:38:40 Quit Hammer89 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:38:45amiconnBut he just briefly asked for objections instead of testing on various targets...
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22:39:07moosand you aren't around :(
22:39:18preglowbut anywho, if it doesn't work on some targets, there's one more reason to revert it (size being the other one)
22:39:19moosyour are our policie :)
22:39:40amiconnmoos: No, as I enjoyed the nice weather outside the city...
22:39:41preglowso someone could just go ahead
22:40:01*preglow even had nice weather inside the city today
22:40:14moosbut imho too much talk, for a commit that will be revert in few hours, and then I supose mmm will not make things like this again
22:40:23moosamiconn: hehe :)
22:40:27moossame here
22:40:37pixelmathere's also a 64-bit warnung but rather due to the wps tag commit - what about that?
22:40:50pixelma^I guess
22:40:54preglowpixelma: nico said he didn't know how to fix it
22:42:00preglowlooks like a simple format string bug
22:42:01pixelmahmmm.. ok - trying to get familiar with what happend the last day
22:42:43*pixelma can't type
22:42:43moospreglow: feel free to fix :)
22:42:46amiconnYes, format string problem. What's the official return type of strlen() ?
22:43:26preglowso the real specifier is %zu
22:43:32preglowwhich rockbox doesn't support
22:45:02amiconnNo, but googling for size_t tells me it should be equal to unsigned long
22:45:19preglowit mostly should
22:45:31amiconnSo we could just cast to unsigned long and then use %ld (or %lu, if that's supported) in the format string
22:45:49preglowor we could just switch off format string warnings :>
22:46:24preglowour printf doesn't have one tenth of what the standard requires anyway
22:46:35amiconnI think they're mostly helpful; I found a couple of bugs due to enabling them
22:47:14peturjhMikeS: if you read the log, can you check ?
22:47:17amiconnIt would be helpful to be able to select which type of mismatch it should display
22:47:35amiconn...e.g. not warn about displaying int with %ld
22:47:39preglowi don't think it can
22:48:15amiconnThe length check is the most useful imho; there were a few places with extraneous arguments...
22:48:22preglowin our case, yes
22:48:31preglowi like the format string warnings, but they're just a bit annoying in rockbox
22:48:52preglowso far, i don't think i've ever seen it report something that isn't just a 64 bit warning
22:49:02 Quit Jon-Kha (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
22:49:10preglowthen again, raising awareness of 64 bit programming is something i'd personally want...
22:49:31*amiconn wonders whether we'll ever see a 64 bit dap
22:49:33jhMikeSpetur: I'm here, I just have my nose buried in MPEG crud
22:50:18*preglow wipes jhMikeS' nose
22:50:51*petur tries to imagine that
22:52:59peturdesowin: it would be nice if qtscrobbler removed the lines it has submitted from the log file when something goes wrong. And when it goes wrong, it tends to hang around without warning until you stop it.
22:53:03*amiconn wonders how this timer should work
22:53:12*preglow goes to read
22:53:14 Quit pill (Nick collision from services.)
22:53:39amiconnOn recorder I get a little further as in I can set all 3 parts of the time, but I can't read anything I set except the seconds
22:53:44 Join pill [0] (
22:53:48amiconnAnd if I press Play, nothing changes...
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22:54:20desowinpetur: I thought about this too, but I think that caching unscrobbled items would be better (and easier to implement as it also support iTunesDB) in I get no indication in the status bar, but the patch looks like something should change...
22:54:59amiconnHmm, I need to start it explicitly...
22:55:20jhMikeSpetur: Is mmmm's build from after the more recent big update?
22:55:21amiconnAh no, those are minutes, not seconds
22:56:11amiconnpetur: Dunno how it behaves on swcodec because I didn't try, but on hwcodec it's unreliable at best
22:56:21peturjhMikeS: I think so, but I asked the poster to test with SVN
22:56:34*petur has nothing to do with that recording patch
22:56:42amiconnAfter enabling I got no log for weeks, then all at a sudden it logged one track (twice, and with a few chars missing in one line)
22:56:55amiconnLast week it just out of nowhere logged another album....
22:57:00jhMikeSpetur: so I take it you've never seen these warnings yourself? How many takes have you done by now?
22:57:16amiconnpetur: Oh, I was talking about the scrobbler thing
22:57:16 Quit entheh ("^~")
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22:57:42markunWould tags.c or metadata.c be better names for id3.c?
22:57:56perseptanyone here have a gigabeat - F series while using rockbox, I'm really considering buying one
22:58:05amiconnI just enabled the logging because I wanted to see whether it works at all. I have no plans to actually use these logs for anything but testing
22:58:06peturjhMikeS: 10+ times, and if they stay on the display until you stop recording then no, I haven't seen them myself
22:58:10pearldiverpersept yes, a lot of people
22:58:12markunen what about mp3entry?
22:58:47markunpersept: yes, quite a few people in here have one I think
22:58:56markunpearldiver: oops :)
22:58:57peturamiconn: there are two paches for scrobbling that maybe should be committed, must test a bit more first maybe
22:59:16persepti heard that rockbox can decrease the battery life, is the patch incorperated with the dev build that enables precessor throttleing
22:59:21 Quit SliMM (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:59:31markunpersept: that doesn't apply to the Gigabeat
22:59:37perseptoh ok thanks
22:59:40jhMikeSthey stay until you leave the screen or stop then restart
22:59:52 Quit davina ("byeeeeee!")
22:59:57 Quit desowin ("use linux")
23:00:10Soappersept: and just to clarify - there is no "dev build" vs "user build" dichotomy.
23:00:10perseptdoes rockbox sort by artist and album, or is it only by the folders that are placed in it
23:00:24pearldivermarkun after messing with zxbox and rockboy i really wish for the landscape orientation heh
23:00:34 Nick dionoea is now known as Judge_Dredd (
23:00:45*amiconn has a suspicion why this setting screen doesn't work at all like intended
23:00:47Soappersept: Rockbox both allows file-tree navigation (by folders) and a Database view (by Tags)
23:01:08perseptnice, all my doubts are gone, hopefully i'll order one soon
23:01:17perseptmy 8gb ipod nano is filled completly
23:01:21 Nick Judge_Dredd is now known as dionoea (
23:01:42amiconnAh, yes
23:01:54amiconnThe screen breaks when using proportional fonts
23:02:07linuxstbmarkun: Maybe the code not related to id3 should be moved out of id3.[ch]. But a lot of it is the id3 parsing code IIUC, so the name seems appropriate.
23:02:14*petur tried to do some off the price of new F40's on ebay but they refused :( 190 euro
23:02:32 Part eggy
23:03:07amiconnSo, how to proceed now?
23:03:31peturpersept: I recently upgraded my h340 from 40 to 80 GB so I know the feeling ;)
23:04:01linuxstbamiconn: As Mmmm is very rarely around, I say just revert it.
23:05:14perseptpetur: do you have your music in lossless, i can't imagine having over 40 gigs of compressed music
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23:06:12peturpersept: it's all 320kbps vbr mp3, right now 38.6GB
23:06:22pearldiverpersept how about 300gb of compressed music
23:06:32markunlinuxstb: ok, I'll try to split it up
23:06:33pearldiverits never enough
23:06:40perseptyou can't have 320 kbps vbr
23:06:44*petur waves at austriancoder :)
23:06:56markunlinuxstb: it's one of the bigger files in system anyway
23:07:17 Quit kubiix (Client Quit)
23:07:18pixelmabluebrother: 20.41.18 # <bluebrother> davina, I get tons of Buffer Miss! on the midi when trying to play a midi too. <- was that with remote or without?
23:08:13amiconnCanceling the repeat timer causes a NULL pointer access. 100% reproducable.
23:08:18*pixelma discovered today that a plugged in remote has a strange effect on midiplay
23:08:30 Join Guile [0] (n=Guile@
23:09:12bluebrotherpixelma, that was on my mini −− I don't have any remote for that ...
23:09:18austriancoderpetur: hi mentor :)
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23:09:40 Part ctaf
23:09:51pixelmabluebrother: ah ok... try with H1x0 and you'll see...
23:09:55*amiconn has a remote for his mini
23:10:04amiconnNot usable with rockbox though
23:11:11bluebrotherI was wondering if I should get one of these cheap remotes of ebay
23:11:11 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:11:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:11:53bluebrotherand maybe look into the serial communication when I've finished uni (which is in a couple of weeks if everything works fine)
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23:13:32 Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
23:14:18*amiconn now has a rectimer reversal patch
23:14:43moosjust go ahead !
23:15:28bluebrotherpixelma, midi works fine for me with remote. But I also don't experience the ticking issue
23:16:42jhMikeScombining rectimer and reversal in the same sentence sounds a bit funny :)
23:16:44amiconnbluebrother: In my tests, midiplay starts spitting buffer misses over and over as soon as I have the remote plugged, even if no button is pressed, and regardless whether remote hold is enabled
23:17:01pixelmathat's strange... I didn't refer to any ticking problems - just that I got endless lines of "Buffer miss!"while the remote was plugged in
23:17:08pixelmaon M5
23:17:46pixelma(I also get a bunch when pressing "right" while playing midi)
23:17:48*jhMikeS goes to wash off the MPEG crud
23:18:28peturjhMikeS: beer does it very good ;)
23:18:30amiconnI also have (at least) one midi that freezes rockbox. Paper clip or similar needed on iriver
23:19:14Bagderaustriancoder: "* +6 to -45.43dB" in the .c file is a typo, isn't it?
23:19:41Bagderas the .h file now says -40.5 as minimum
23:23:56jhMikeSpetur: indeed...then the shower
23:25:28amiconnbluebrother: It also happens on X5 and H300, I just checked
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23:28:23bluebrotherpixelma, sorry, was a bit distracted reading the last hour. Is that dependent on whether you plug the remote before starting midiplay?
23:28:50amiconnOne of my mids that plays just fine on H180, H340 and X5 spits buffer misses like crazy on mini g2, and sounds like crap
23:28:57*preglow has an orval
23:29:14preglowamiconn: ipod doesn't support anyting but 44.1khz, afaik
23:29:32*amiconn also wonders how to stop midiplay on ipod
23:29:42*preglow never used midiplay
23:29:48pixelmabluebrother: haven't tested for that... but I believe I plugged it in before
23:29:49amiconnAh, the combo it is
23:29:59 Quit ompaul ("later")
23:30:00*pearldiver wonders how to use viewer icons with loadable icons patch
23:30:20austriancoderBagder: will check it
23:30:33*bluebrother wants rockbox.iriver in the root back
23:30:37amiconnbluebrother: Doesn't matter
23:31:05amiconnpreglow: That's probably it
23:31:25amiconnmidiplay uses 22.05kHz iirc
23:31:40bluebrotherhmm. Can't reproduce it.
23:31:50bluebrotherbut maybe my midi file isn't complex enough?
23:32:48amiconnHappens with a lot of my files. The file only 'defined' how many 'buffer miss' lines are thrown at once
23:33:02preglowamiconn: that almost certainly is it
23:33:41*amiconn didn't try all files, but saw groups of 1 thorugh 10 lines of buffer miss thrown per second
23:33:44 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
23:37:02*bluebrother found a demo midi in the timidity source tree
23:38:00 Quit yossa ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
23:38:48PaulJampearldiver: you need to create a .icons file with the same name like the .bmp file and in the icons file you specify which filetype is assigned to which icon. for example the line "ch8:0" will show the first icon in the bmp for .ch8 files.
23:40:51pearldiverPaulJam im trying to do so with aliask's icons and he supplied the .config files instead of .icons which i assume the same thing
23:41:43pearldiveri place 3 files into /.rockbox/icons folder (aliask.bmp, aliask_viewers.bmp, aliask_viewers.icons)
23:42:52PaulJamthe .config file has a different format, so just renaming isn't enough, you need to edit it too.
23:42:53bluebrotherhmm, seems my midi files aren't complex enough.
23:43:19pearldiverPaulJam let me check
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23:45:35 Quit amiconn (" HydraIRC -> <- The professional IRC Client")
23:45:59pearldiverPaulJam so the line "wav,viewers/wav2wv,b0"
23:46:08 Quit Guile (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:46:12 Join Guile [0] (n=Guile@
23:46:43pearldivershould look like "wav:b0" ?
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23:48:11PaulJamyes, i think so (i'm not sure if the builtin icons can be used in the .icons file)
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23:52:19 Quit brun0_ (Remote closed the connection)
23:52:35pearldiverPaulJam do you use the new dict patch by any chance?
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23:54:21Nico_Pamiconn: I saw some talk about the 64 bit warning in the log
23:54:49Nico_Pdo you have an idea how to fix it ?
23:54:52amiconnBagder: Still around?
23:55:16amiconn[22:45:47] <amiconn> So we could just cast to unsigned long and then use %ld (or %lu, if that's supported) in the format string
23:55:53Nico_Pamiconn: ok, thanks
23:56:58preglowlooks like %lu is supported
23:57:00*amiconn is still undecided whether he should just revert, or wait and discuss with mmmm first :\
23:57:04petur%lu is supported
23:57:18preglowamiconn: like it's been said, i don't think he's often online
23:57:23amiconnThe drawback is that it becomes harder to revert if the dailies are out with the .lanfg changes
23:57:27amiconn* .lang
23:57:53preglowyou can pretty much be sure he'll show up online if you revert, heh
23:57:53amiconnJust to clarify, I am for having a recording timer...
23:58:01preglowmention it in the commit msg
23:58:24preglowi don't think i'll ever use one...
23:58:47amiconnMe neither, but I can see that it's useful for people who actually record
23:58:54 Join Llorean [0] (

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