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#rockbox log for 2007-04-16

00:00:39LloreanHey, how'd 6949 get in. Specifically, how come we're letting a change of the commit message, and the exact same code but with two variable names changed allow a bypassing of the "strict" no anonymous code rule?
00:01:13linuxstbLlorean: The patch itself is trivial - you can't really implement the feature in any other way IIUC...
00:01:32linuxstbRead the IRC logs for some brief discussions...
00:03:36LloreanIs the code so important we couldn't have just rejected it, and waited to see if the author changed their mind?
00:03:54pearldiverPaulJam well i cant make them displayed
00:04:36peturwithout reading the logs, I would like to treat anonymous patches as being owned by the committer - no credits and the committer takes full responsability of the code as if he wrote it himself. (don't want to start a discussion on this, just expressing my feelings)
00:04:39linuxstbLlorean: I think Slasheri handled it badly, but what he did in the end was right - i.e. reject the patch and implement the same feature himself.
00:05:44Lloreanlinuxstb: I'd rather that had waited at least a few weeks, to try to talk the author into following our guidelines.
00:06:20Llorean I don't like that a precedent has been set for anonymous code to be accepted if we just rename the variables. I know in this case it was trivial, and there's not really another way to implement it, but it still just doesn't sit right in my stomach
00:06:48preglowpetur: i think i agree
00:07:02Lloreanpetur: I don't think you're going to get the Real-name policy overturned.
00:07:29peturLlorean: I don't try to do that
00:07:40linuxstbLlorean: I don't think it's set any precedent.
00:07:56Lloreanpetur: Oh, I thought you were suggesting anonymous patches could be accepted.
00:08:24Lloreanlinuxstb: I think it has only in the sense that we've said "Well, this one time it's okay since it was so trivial"
00:08:37LloreanBut it's me being stubborn, I'll drop it before we argue too much.
00:08:39linuxstbWe haven't said that. We rejected the patch.
00:08:54linuxstbBut the feature idea was accepted.
00:09:20*petur thinks he could put this on the devcon agenda
00:09:29preglowgo go!
00:09:57preglowit could be two separate issues. the real-name policy stands, but anonymous code can be "adopted" by another commiter
00:09:58 Quit BHSPitMonkey (Remote closed the connection)
00:10:07SoapI don't mean to stir shit - but how can a "no anon. code" policy be claimed w/o checking government photo ID?
00:10:09preglowi don't think it's that ban an idea
00:10:13Lloreanlinuxstb: If you diff the patched versions of the files with the "reimplemented" files, the only difference is WPS_TOKEN_DATABASE_SCORE is now WPS_TOKEN_DATABASE_AUTOSCORE
00:10:28LloreanAnd %rs vs %ra
00:10:31preglowLlorean: should we implement it in a more complicated way and waste bytes to avoid it?
00:10:32linuxstbLlorean: Yes, because there's no other way to do it...
00:10:38preglowLlorean: it's a straightforward feature
00:10:41PaulJamLlorean: the patch i posted was itself basically just a copy and paste fron another wps tag (%rr). so i didn't really think it would matter if i post it annonymous.
00:10:47LloreanI know it's straightforward
00:11:41LloreanBut it's also hardly a very important feature.
00:11:59LloreanI think the problem is that the patch was accepted in the first place.
00:12:08preglowbut important enough to make an issue out of it?
00:12:18LloreanThe feature isn't the issue, the policy is.
00:12:32preglowthe policy really hasn't been breached
00:12:38preglowthe feature is so simple it might look like it, but it's not
00:12:47Lloreanpreglow: The code is word for word, space for space, character for character identical to that in the patch.
00:13:02 Nick qwm is now known as guy_formerly_kno (
00:13:36preglowbut look at how basic it is...
00:13:36LloreanIt is trivial yes, but is it trivial or copy and pasted?
00:13:40preglowhow can't it be nearly identical
00:13:51 Part andy^rb
00:13:52preglowin this case, it's very possible it's been manually typed over again
00:13:53linuxstbLlorean: As PaulJam said - it's copy and pasted from existing Rockbox code.
00:13:59 Nick guy_formerly_kno is now known as qwm (
00:14:03preglowit's just too simple to really know
00:14:08LloreanI'd just rather if we waited a week, is all
00:14:09linuxstbi.e. both PaulJam and Slasheri would have based it on the similar %rr tag.
00:14:23LloreanI really don't like it sitting right there by the commit message.
00:14:33Llorean"I removed this patch, and then put the exact code back in again claimed as my own"
00:14:37LloreanEven if it really is reimplemented.
00:15:10LloreanBut as I said, I don't want to argue. If you guys are okay with it, then fine.
00:15:15preglowso it's just a cosmetic issue?
00:15:21preglowit would have been ok if he waited a week then commited?
00:15:37 Join heanol_ [0] (
00:15:42SoapIsn't the point of a no anonomous code policy to force people to take accountability, take responsibility for the code - to prevent people from breaking NDAs and the like?
00:16:01preglowmostly, i guess
00:16:16preglowbut i guess it's also partly just a way to express how we want things to work
00:16:49Lloreanpreglow: It's a case of: although this code is so trivial you can't really call PaulJam's code original code anyway, it's got the potential to cause problems later if people who HAVE been rejected for anonymity get upset about it.
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00:17:17preglowLlorean: it's happened plenty of times before, so this won't be the case that breaks anything
00:17:35 Quit rift (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:17:37preglowLlorean: linus himself has commited code from the notorously anonymous bluechip, for example
00:18:02 Join rift [0] (
00:18:09 Join saratoga [0] (i=98039b62@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:18:10*amiconn hopes that his commit msg is appropriate
00:18:13LloreanReimplemented though, or the same code but with a different name?
00:18:19preglowLlorean: his code
00:18:21preglowas is
00:18:38preglowafaik, can't remember exactly
00:18:48preglowwould be wise to search the issue out before pointing any fingers
00:18:53LloreanThough, if bluechip has released it under the GPL somewhere else, it's the same as using it from another project.
00:19:00qwmhow serious sounding is my nickname?
00:19:03preglowi've been known to make blunders "now and then"
00:19:10preglowqwm: extremely
00:19:15amiconnBluechip's code was removed
00:19:40preglowthen hooray!
00:19:41amiconnThe most notably one was the othelo game
00:19:43qwmpreglow: i was beginning to worry.
00:19:52qwmwhat's the progress on mpegplayer btw?
00:19:57preglowamiconn: looks good to me
00:19:59qwmbeen a few months since my last update now.
00:20:11preglowamiconn: ah, what i was thinking about was a smaller code snippet, i think
00:20:16qwmsomeone told me i need to update the bootloader as well now. is that.. true?
00:20:23markunqwm: the only major feature missing is seeking support
00:20:32qwmmarkun: indeed..
00:20:40qwmmissing with a big m
00:20:48qwmand all bold letters.
00:20:54qwmzooming would be sweet as well.
00:21:12bluebrotherqwm, COP support got into the core and requires an updated bootloader
00:21:13amiconnNico_P: Warning is gone :)
00:21:17linuxstbqwm: You mean upscaling?
00:21:22 Quit Siltaar (Remote closed the connection)
00:21:24Nico_Pamiconn: yes, thanks :)
00:21:27Soapand subtitles
00:21:30markunI believe people were claiming they would be happy if rebuffering was added
00:21:41qwmlinuxstb: probably.. you're the expert(s). :p
00:21:43linuxstbmarkun: You believed that?
00:21:44bluebrotherbut ipodpatcher got somewhat mature −− it's really easy installing a new bootloader
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00:21:50markunlinuxstb: no, of course not :)
00:21:52qwmbluebrother: ahhh
00:22:06Lloreanmarkun: I'd personally prefer a "resume" feature to seeking anyway
00:22:08linuxstbqwm: I mean resizing a small video to fullscreen or resizing a large video to fullscreen?
00:22:11bluebrothermaybe you want to have a look at the RecentChanges wiki page ;-)
00:22:27preglowgrep -i bluechip svnlog|wc -l gives six hits
00:22:42markunLlorean: but then you never fall asleep while watching a movie on your Gigabeat :)
00:23:03qwmlinuxstb: i meant both, i think.. :)
00:23:06 Quit Nico_P (""bed time for me"")
00:23:08preglowsaratoga: oy?
00:23:55preglowmarkun: any work done on the gigabeat s thus far?
00:23:57Lloreanmarkun: The big problem is that if I pause a movie, and it idle poweroffs, and I was 30 minutes from the end...
00:24:04linuxstbqwm: Downscaling a large video isn't practical - your device (whatever it is) will struggle to decode the larger video. i.e. you'll get a reduced framerate due to more data to decode, and then a further slowdown for the scaling itself.
00:24:30 Part JavaMan22
00:25:27markunpreglow: I think that ptw419 and Zunepet are only discussing progress in private
00:25:42preglowmarkun: now why'd they want to do that?
00:25:53markunmaybe they are afraid the Zune-linux guys want to steal their code? :)
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00:28:15 Quit Guile ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'")
00:30:22markunpreglow: amazing, no progress from Zune-linux. Maybe they thought by claiming it worked long enough it would magically happen
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00:32:53safetydanWho wants to write a lang file editing tool for me?
00:32:53 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
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00:33:18*safetydan gets lost trying to keep the cleaned up version in sync
00:34:32preglowthe files are getting really huge
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00:35:28perldiverPaulJam do the viewer icons need something like "iconset: /.rockbox/icons/<your iconset>.bmp" as well?
00:36:02PaulJamyes, "viewers iconset: /.rockbox...."
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00:41:51 Part Llorean
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00:45:32perldivermarkun did you have a chance to finish the POWER - A switch patch?
00:48:41 Join Llorean [0] (n=Llorean@rockbox/administrator/Llorean)
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00:53:01 Quit ender` (" Hardware, n The part of the computer that you can kick.")
00:54:31 Quit petur ("Zzzzzz")
00:55:49 Quit midgey ()
00:59:21perldiverreal time clock wps tags are broken?
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01:03:21PaulJamperldiver: they were changed some day ago
01:05:33perldiverPaulJam do you happen to know the new ones?
01:07:26PaulJamthey are documented in the wiki on the CustomWPS page.
01:10:47 Quit Rincewind ("Cya")
01:11:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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01:17:00perldiverPaulJam thats what i tried just now
01:17:57perldiverfor example this line "%cH:%cM:%cS" just display ": :"
01:19:50PaulJamthe line looks correct, i have no idea.
01:20:28PaulJami haven't updated my build today, and with a build from yesterdas the clock tags work
01:21:09perldiveryes, happened today actually
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01:33:30 Quit rift ("Lost terminal")
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01:48:32 Quit robin0800 (" HydraIRC -> <- IRC for those that like to be different")
01:48:40 Quit moos ("Glory to Rockbox")
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02:00:24 Join JdGordon [0] (
02:07:36pearldiverJdGordon took me awhile to figure out how viewer icons work
02:07:40pearldiverbut i got there
02:08:09JdGordon:) oh ood
02:09:52pearldiveri think the FS page has become confusing a bit
02:10:15JdGordonjust a liitle :)
02:10:39JdGordoni was hoping to commit this arvo, but didnt get answers on the dev ml i needed
02:12:10pearldiveranyway, aliask's icons are great
02:16:42PaulJamJdGordon: i noticed, that when the lineselection is set to cursor and you use custom icons, the cursor might overlap the text in the recording screen (cant test right now with only your patch applied).
02:17:39PaulJampropably only if the custom icons are larger than the default ones
02:17:45JdGordonthere is a cursor in the rec screen?
02:18:48PaulJamonly if you don't use the inverse bar selection
02:20:45PaulJamAnd a little request: could the Database have its own icon? currently it shares the icon with the sound settings.
02:22:37 Quit funky (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:25:43LloreanJdGordon: Hey, with your patch, can I give .aac, .mp3, and .flac different icons even though they'd normally use the same builtin one?
02:25:57LloreanBasically, differentiate on extension despite they're all normally just "audio file"?
02:26:01LloreanOkay, cool
02:26:12 Quit Hammer89 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:26:37JdGordonLlorean: was about to ping you actually :) can you use use sansa as a mSD card reader for your computer?
02:26:45LloreanJdGordon: Yes
02:26:57LloreanIt gets its own drive letter
02:27:02JdGordongreat, then i might just buy a 1gb card today
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02:28:56linuxstbLlorean: Have you read anything more anywhere about problems with sansapatcher not checking the correct partition types?
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02:29:42Lloreanlinuxstb: Not in quite a while
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02:33:40amiconnJdGordon: Imho the best way to handle viewer icons will be to always load them from a .bmp, falling back to a generic 'unknown' icon in case the bitmap isn't loadable
02:33:54 Quit Hammer89 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:34:08amiconnThe built-in filename default should then point to the shipped version
02:34:19JdGordonI think so too, but do we leave the icon number in viewers.config? or move them to a seperate file?
02:34:28amiconnThis would have the advantage that we could ship different default icons per target if desired
02:34:52amiconnIcon number in viewers.config sounds ok
02:35:33JdGordonok cool. so then the last point is, wich build acript moves the bmp into the zip? I'd say. It's not wps
02:37:20amiconnLooks like we need to think about placement of target/resolution/whatever-specific bitmaps for as-is shipment (as opposed to the bitmap build system) in the source tree
02:37:56JdGordonthe apps/bitmaps/native folder is fine
02:38:12 Quit inversions (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
02:38:12amiconnNo it's not
02:38:15JdGordondont know where the virewers.bpm file should be stored though
02:38:17JdGordonwhy not?
02:38:28amiconnapps/bitmaps/native is for processing during build
02:39:04JdGordonoh.. hmm.. your talking about viewers.bmp?
02:39:52JdGordonapps/plugins/bitmaps/viewers_bmps ?
02:39:54*amiconn thinks the fallback icon should resemble a 'broken icon' icon
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02:41:26JdGordonfallback icon for supported tyes without an icon set?
02:41:34JdGordonor unsupported types?
02:42:02amiconnsupported type when the specified viewer icons .bmp is missing
02:43:48JdGordonsave an icon and use the question mark icon?
02:45:00PaulJamJdGordon: little question, is the length of the file extension in the .icons file limited to 4 characters?
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02:48:36PaulJamhmm, i tried to assign an icon to .codec files and this didn't work. maybe i did something wrong.
02:50:03amiconn.codec files don't fall under the 'supported' category, as you cannot load them directly
02:50:03JdGordonthere souldnt be a limit to the ext anywhere...
02:50:35JdGordonmaybe they could have the rockbox icon though?
02:51:18PaulJamoh, i thought with the .icons file you could also assign icons to unsufforted filetypes.
02:51:18 Quit Hammer89 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:51:33JdGordonyou can
02:58:45PaulJamoh, i'm not using the latest patch, maybe that's the problem.
03:00:56 Quit barrywardell ()
03:01:36amiconn.icons file?
03:01:49amiconnThat's a new idea I don't know yet...
03:05:25amiconnHmm, does that mean we don't need 2 bitmaps to theme both builtin types and viewers?
03:10:17JdGordonits a text file which lets you give an icon to an extension
03:10:26JdGordonsame idea as the 3rd column in viewers.config
03:10:36linuxstbJdGordon: Could you create a short wiki page (e.g. CustomIcons) describing the formats of all the required files for icons/viewers etc?
03:10:53*JdGordon was hoping someone else would :p
03:10:57JdGordoni hate usng the wiki
03:11:17JdGordonbut yeah, ill do that today
03:11:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
03:12:05 Part pixelma
03:12:09linuxstbThanks. I think it would be easier for people to see what you're proposing, and to answer your questions.
03:12:21hen3rzHello everyone
03:12:32 Quit jhulst (Remote closed the connection)
03:14:29JdGordonhmm... it seems i have an assignment due in 13 hours!
03:14:43JdGordonwe might not be seeing a commit from me today then ;p
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03:34:13JdGordon is a start
03:34:32JdGordonexcept, in the patches "b" is used instead of "m", but i tihnk m is better
03:34:42JdGordonunless someone comes up with a better char to use?
03:36:56LloreanWhat does it stand for?
03:39:59LloreanI'm not really fond of a letter/number combination at all, honestly
03:39:59LloreanBut I can't see a better way at the moment
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03:47:34JdGordonb was for built-in.. m is main icons set...
03:47:51JdGordonits to use the index for the man icon set instead of the viewers iconset
03:52:09LloreanSince there's only 32 main icons, couldn't you just use 0-31 as the builtin, and 32+ as not?
03:54:17JdGordonthats annoying
03:54:56JdGordonalso means if we add a main icon the .icons file would need updating also
03:56:01LloreanAre there actually 32 even main icons?
03:56:07LloreanOr is 32 the current maximum?
03:56:35*Llorean shrugs
03:56:40JdGordoncurrwently 32
03:56:58LloreanIt could go the other way around. 0-31 are the user-icons, and 32+ are the main ones.
03:58:39LloreanI just don't like the use of a letter like that. But that's probably just me.
03:59:03JdGordonsame problem.. and i agree... but we could use any character
03:59:13JdGordonbut i gtg now, back in a fw hours
03:59:48LloreanWell, maybe _
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04:44:25caduhello guys, i'm using the 'Tranquil' WPS and part of the date and hours is showing only chars (maybe old tags) instead of actual information, where can i find new tags/changed tags to correct my WPS ?
04:44:54Lloreancadu: The new tag format is on the CustomWPS page
04:45:37caduthanks :)
04:45:41pearldiverLlorean the new tags for real time clock didnt work for me with today's build
04:47:05Lloreanpearldiver: What revision broke 'em?
04:52:19pearldivercan you check if it works for you?
04:54:15pearldiverbut i did the svn update when the autoscore tag was commited
04:54:31Lloreanpearldiver: What revision do you have right now then, that's not working?
04:54:45elinenbeJdGordon: I love the patch... looks GREAT!
04:54:50Lloreanpearldiver: And, why are you even bringing it up if you aren't using the most up to date version?
04:55:03pearldiverLlorean i am now
04:55:37LloreanThen you should've said that, instead of saying the daily was broken.
04:56:20LloreanSince the autoscore tag was committed after the daily, I was looking in things pre-it that might be relevant.
04:56:25pearldivermy mistake
04:56:49pearldiver im on r13169M
04:57:25LloreanWhich is not the current build
04:57:45LloreanI already asked you why you're bringing it up if you aren't using the most up to date version, and you said "I am now"...
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04:58:40pearldiverjust noticed that im not already
05:03:44Lloreanpearldiver: And, does it work?
05:06:12 Quit pabs (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
05:07:39pearldiverwill test in a few
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05:08:10LloreanIt works fine for me, at least.
05:11:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:16:50 Quit Hammer89 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
05:16:53pearldiverwell, instead of "%cH:%cM:%cS" line i see ": :"
05:17:11LloreanAnd is this with a current build?
05:17:49LloreanUsing %cI:%cM:%cS worked fine for me.
05:17:55LloreanWith the "Current build"
05:18:09LloreanHave you set your clock?
05:18:24LloreanEven if it's showing "a time", have you actually manually SET it since your last battery power off?
05:19:34pearldiverLlorean yes i did
05:20:13Lloreanpearldiver: Odd, because mine showed :: until I went and actually set the time, then it was fine.
05:20:22LloreanCould you double check that?
05:20:30pearldiverchecking now
05:20:40pearldiverha, setting it again solved it!
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06:19:40Aloneais there a way to just download the svn version of 1 file? I am trying to remove a patch and I keep getting hunks failed. trying to reset the files that are messed up to clean versions
06:20:00Lloreansvn revert filename
06:20:20AloneaLlorean: thanks. will try that right now
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06:26:54Aloneayay! it compiled. w00t!
06:36:25hen3rzLlorean: should i fill in a bug report on flyspray for the backlight issue?
06:36:40Lloreanhen3rz: Sure, if there's not one.
06:37:48hen3rzHrmm it appears there isnt
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06:50:30*JdGordon returns
06:51:25hen3rzLlorean: I filled in the bug report, I hope it makes sense.
06:52:31JdGordonLlorean: picked up a 1b mSD card today for about $10 us :)
06:52:37JdGordon1gb eve
06:52:51LloreanJdGordon: Nice, let me know when you have it working perfectly. :-P
06:52:53LloreanAnd chop, chop
06:53:36JdGordonany idea how to rename a partition in linux?
06:53:58krazykitlike, where it's mounted?
06:54:09JdGordonno, the name of the actual partition...
06:54:19tchanpartitions don't have names
06:54:28JdGordonyes they do!
06:54:31tchanyour stuck in a dos world
06:54:31Lloreantchan: The volume name.
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06:55:50hen3rzIs this backlight bug classified as "high" cause it kind of is a core feature, case i cant read anything on the screen
06:55:59Lloreanwebguest41: This isn't really a social channel.
06:56:04Lloreanwebguest41: Did you have a question?
06:56:18webguest41i have an ipod 5th gen
06:56:49webguest41and i was wondering if i install does the media that i added with itunes become useless to the rock box os
06:57:06Lloreanwebguest41: Rockbox can't play songs from the iTunes store, but any other songs should be fine.
06:58:14webguest41so once i install rock box
06:58:24webguest41how do i add skins
06:58:33Lloreanwebguest41: See the manual for that one
06:59:51webguest41and if i install it or uninstall do i risk a hard reset(all media erased)
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07:01:14krazykitwebguest41, it's possible, though that's true about anything. if you remotely care about your data, it should be backed up anyway..
07:01:23Lloreanwebguest41: It's only possible if you do something crazy.
07:01:36Lloreanwebguest41: Though if you have a Mac-iPod, you have to reformat it, which by definition wipes the data.
07:02:00webguest41is it similair to linux giving u a choice bewteen rock box os and aplle os
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07:02:26LloreanYou can hold down a button to start the Apple OS instead of Rockbox
07:02:41johnnyoc3or flip the hold switch on boot
07:03:54webguest41and i have my firmware updated with a skin using ipod wizard should i return to apples firmware when using rock box
07:04:26LloreanIt shouldn't matter
07:04:27johnnyoc3my ipod has a skin and it works fine with rockbox
07:05:52JdGordonwtf? the OF cant read jpg's from the mSD card?
07:10:04LloreanThe OF doesn't let you do anything with it but music, I believe
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07:14:38SlasheriLlorean: btw, i did rewrite that autoscore feature again from scratch without looking at the patch while doing it but it just became almost different
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07:16:59LloreanSlasheri: That's fine.
07:17:37LloreanReally, I'm just upset that the image it puts forth (because the patch was accepted first, then identical code except for variablenames was checked in immediately after).
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07:18:06LloreanBecause the whole "non anonymous code" argument comes up often enough without something like that which someone can reference next time the issue is brought up.
07:18:22webguest41i think my ipod is stuck *moving images to create roomfor new firmware* for 4 mins
07:18:25JdGordonLlorean: meh, its no big deal, the patch in question was tiny
07:18:51Lloreanwebguest41: That shouldn't take 4 minutes, no.
07:19:00LloreanJdGordon: It's the principle more than anything else.
07:19:12scorcheJdGordon: well, the issue is that our policy is no anonymous code...not little pieces are ok
07:19:30LloreanIf the original code had never been checked in, it wouldn't have been as much a problem.
07:19:41JdGordonI know, but its not like any of us couldnt have put the patch together in 3 min anyway..
07:19:50LloreanBut right now anyone can put those two revisions side by side, and see that the only difference is the variable names.
07:19:54LloreanJdGordon: Then someone should've up front.
07:20:22JdGordonSlasheri: revert it, then in 2 weeks commit it without mentioneing the fs# :p
07:20:32LloreanIt's too late to really do anything about it now
07:21:08LloreanI just wanted to make my feelings on the issue heard earlier, because it is more "gray area" than previous things.
07:22:01SlasheriLlorean: in fact the original patch had extra brackets as well which i already cleaned out before i did the first commit
07:22:25Slasheriso it wasn't 100% original at the first place either
07:22:59LloreanSlasheri: I'm really not that upset about it, I promise.
07:23:59*JdGordon gone again
07:27:44webguest41ummmm bootloader is taking long or its unsucessful
07:27:59webguest41its keeps saying moving images
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08:01:24*JdGordon wonders if Bagder is up yet?
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08:16:43webguest30can anyone assist me?
08:16:55 Quit persept ()
08:17:07GodEaterwebguest30: perhaps, but only if we know what the problem is
08:17:18aliaskwebguest30: If you just ask your question straight out you'll have a better chance that someone will respond.
08:17:32webguest30i tryed installing
08:17:36webguest30rock box
08:17:50webguest30i did all that your manuel said
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08:17:58webguest30but when i used boot
08:17:59GodEatertry keeping the question all on one line too...
08:18:02webguest30it failed
08:18:07webguest30kept staying on
08:18:12webguest30making space
08:18:15webguest30so i quit
08:18:21webguest30i disconnected
08:18:29webguest30and now my ipod is
08:18:54GodEaterrestore it in iTunes
08:19:06webguest30will it erase my data
08:19:14GodEaterunfortunately yes
08:20:33webguest30painful cause i have no backup. ive been using media monkey since my old labby died out. i have 40 gigs of music that i dont have anymore
08:20:53webguest30any other suggestion
08:21:06GodEaterboot it into disk mode, backup the contents
08:21:11GodEaterand THEN restore it with iTunes
08:21:29webguest30what should i use to back up
08:21:39GodEaterwindows explorer ?
08:21:50hen3rz_Just copy them over to your hard drive
08:22:00webguest30wont i get weird # or letters
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08:22:19GodEaterbut if you copy over the old itunes database from the iPod too
08:22:25GodEaterit won't matter when you put it back on the iPod
08:22:28webguest30when i send it back to my ipod will it work again
08:22:55GodEatershould do
08:24:24krazykitthe files ought to be tagged properly, too, unless itunes does something insanely stupid like stripping the files of tags
08:24:33krazykitwhen transferring.
08:25:18Lloreankrazykit: It doesn't strip the tags, but if you tag them in iTunes, the tags may only be written to the database, not the files (this seems possibly inconsistent, maybe some versions of iTunes do, some don't)
08:25:24webguest30i dont under stand so if i just rip the old ipods database then restore it then put the ripped database back in it will work just like before with no misspelled music
08:25:50GodEaterwebguest30: that's the theory yes
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08:26:14webguest30any app out there that can rip music
08:26:21krazykitonly tons.
08:26:42Lloreanwebguest30: We said "copy", you don't need to "rip" off the iPod.
08:26:43krazykitEAC, CDEX, the list goes on and on.
08:27:30webguest30what do you guys suppose happen to my ipod during this process
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08:28:20GodEaterwithout seeing an error message that's impossible to say webguest30
08:28:42GodEateryou haven't even said what sort of iPod you've got
08:29:04webguest305g 60 gig
08:29:39webguest30its been heaviley protected and has been used to go to school car and work
08:30:07webguest30never used it for my more active things i have a photo ipod for that
08:30:26webguest30so dropping it couldnt be the prolbem
08:30:42webguest30its when i used bootloader
08:30:52webguest30i had the prob
08:32:02GodEateryou mean when you were installing it. Not when you were using it.
08:32:17webguest30right after i gave up and i disconnected it(properley) it went to apple start up then off then off and on off and on until i put into disk mode
08:32:51webguest30it was stuck on moving images for sumtin room
08:33:09webguest30i think moving images for firmware room but im really not sure
08:33:31webguest30i gave up after 9 min of it saying that
08:34:06webguest30and with only 20 gigs of hd space i wont be apple to save my music
08:34:35webguest30and with a crappy computer with wd2k a celeron and 512 mb of ram
08:34:43webguest30itunes crashes often
08:35:35webguest30plus i dont have usb 2.0
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08:38:09webguest30and it reads perfectly in itunes
08:38:26webguest30so do u now of a way not destroyin my media
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08:40:50GodEaterwebguest30: given those constraints (mostly the only 20 gigs of space), then no - there isn't a way to save it.
08:41:14webguest30thx for your help admins
08:41:54webguest30yes Llorean
08:42:25webguest30i will try any solution u might have in mind
08:42:53Lloreanwebguest30: if you're feeling up to some more technical stuff
08:43:10LloreanYou can skip step 3
08:43:15Lloreanstep 3 will delete everything on the iPod
08:43:25LloreanBut if you do that wrong, AT ALL, even just a little bit wrong, you'll lose everything
08:43:45LloreanSo you're probably better off just backing up your iPod somehow and restoring
08:43:50webguest30i dont have linux on my computer
08:44:26LloreanWell, it's up to you how to solve your problem then. :)
08:45:03LloreanYou're going to need to restore.
08:45:07webguest30thx tho
08:45:33webguest30so do i rip the hidden folder ipod control
08:45:42LloreanWhy do you keep saying "rip"?
08:45:50LloreanYou're just copying a folder.
08:45:50GodEaterif by "rip" you mean "copy", then yes
08:46:23webguest30im sorry about the misunderstanding what does rip actually meen
08:46:27krazykitactually, there should be a dd for windows. definitely in cygwin, probably in some kind of unix tools for windows packages
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08:46:37krazykitwebguest30, "rip" means to copy off of a CD
08:46:42GodEaterLlorean: did you watch the whole of that episode featuring Rockbox ?
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08:47:06Lloreankrazykit: The DD in windows doesn't seem to work quite as well at recognizing partition boundaries, in my test.
08:47:13JdGordonmorning B4gder
08:47:29krazykitLlorean, that's pretty lame.
08:47:46krazykitwell, there's always Knoppix
08:47:53krazykita LiveCD if you're REALLY intent on it
08:48:52GaloisI wonder how a dd in windows would even be useful. Windows doesn't have raw block device files.
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08:49:13webguest30one more question should i leave my ipod connected to my comp
08:49:16scorcheGodEater: i only watched the 4 or so min that applied to rockbox
08:49:18amiconnGalois: It does.
08:49:41krazykitiirc, it's just hidden by the drive-letter thing
08:49:53GodEaterscorche: were you left with the opinion that both presenters were idiots ?
08:49:57JdGordonB4gder: ok, when your awake... do you have any idea how to get the width/height from a bmp.h file which is made with bmp2rb in
08:50:01Galoisin which case, copy.exe would work too (just as cp /dev/hda1 <somewhere> works)
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08:50:09scorcheand incapable of reading the manual, yes
08:50:15amiconnGalois: They're of the form \\?\Device\Harddisk0\Partition0
08:50:21LloreanGodEater: I haven't watched it at all, actually
08:50:26GodEaterscorche: I'm glad it wasn't just me.
08:50:35Galoisis there a windows equivalent for /proc/kcore?
08:50:56*amiconn wonders what that is
08:51:14Galoisimage of system memory
08:51:27GodEaterthat's not a block device though
08:51:32scorcheLlorean: it isnt worth watching is the typical article where they get crap wrong...they sit there and show a picture of what "rockbox could look like", but "we are still trying to figure out how to customize it this way"
08:51:37Galoissure sure
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08:52:06Lloreanscorche: Hahaha
08:52:13GodEaterLlorean: yeah don't bother - they're both morons. If you could hope for a worse review of rockbox's features, I'm not sure what else it would include.
08:52:34linuxstbwebguest30: Does ipodpatcher still recognise your ipod (when you force your ipod into disk mode and attach it to your computer) ?
08:52:43Galoisokay, so dd is half-useful on windows (it would need character devices too in order to qualify as full-useful)
08:52:52scorcheGodEater: it is hard to top the bar that popular science made
08:53:08GodEaterscorche: I don't know - I thought this one was worse actually.
08:53:25scorchebut the "it can do cool things, but we dont know how to make it do all this" really doesnt work
08:53:35GodEaterit's less than ideal
08:53:47scorchethis was worse in "selling point"...popsci was worse in misinfo
08:54:08webguest30hey guys thanks for the solutions and help u guys have a nice night
08:54:11GodEaterat least these two didn't attempt the install in front of the audience
08:54:21GodEatercan't imagine how badly that would have gone
08:54:29krazykitthat would've been exciting
08:54:37krazykit"aaaand we're copying some files"
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08:54:50scorche"is this a permanent change?" "
08:55:09GodEater"only if you hit it with a hammer afterwards"
08:55:10scorche"i dont think so...but i dont knwo how you would uninstall it"..."cool!"
08:55:31scorchenot direct quotes of course, but it is close enough
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09:18:36hen3rz_ Are there any rockbox gigabeat users active?
09:19:31LloreanWhat for?
09:21:03JdGordonLinusN: hey, do you know
09:21:17LinusNJdGordon: a little, why?
09:21:22hen3rz_I was browsing through a bunch of pdf pages converted to jpeg files to see if they were readable on the gigabeat screen and it became a real nuisence having the short menu and long menu push to zoom in and out
09:21:57JdGordonLinusN: I need to get it to copy the correct bmp for the viewers into the archive, but I dont know how to get the dimentions from the build
09:22:03hen3rz_and was thinking how much easier it would be if the fucntion was mapped to the volume buttons
09:22:20JdGordonI tried playing with the >gcctemp bit but failed
09:22:48LinusNJdGordon: what dimensions do you want?
09:23:33LinusNhen3rz_: i think it sounds like a good idea
09:23:45JdGordonthe default icon size for the build, without having to explicitly define it in config-<target.> ... I can get it from <default_icons.h> but gcc cant find that file
09:24:49hen3rz_LinusN: Thanks, I filled in a feature request so I guess I'll see what happens from there.
09:25:03LloreanI wish I'd thought of it.
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09:25:24LloreanI'd noticed the controls weren't great, but never really use it (just demonstrated it for a friend)
09:27:03hen3rz_Hahaha yay! I finally did something helpful
09:27:09 Part B4gder
09:28:16cropI have some questions about the pitch screen. 1. Why isn't it under the sound menu (it's sound related IMO) 2. Why isn't the setting permanent 3. What is the "nudge" feature good for? I can't hear any difference. To produce the bend effect, the delta should be increased. And if not, we could just remove the feature (and thus reduce the binary size)
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09:28:49hen3rz_By the way, has anyone used their rockbox as like an ebook reader? It took adobe acrobat reader a couple minutes to convert about a 100 + pages to jpeg but they come up alright on the screen.
09:29:15LinusNJdGordon: where is default_icons.h ?
09:29:29JdGordon<build-dir>/bitmaps aparently
09:30:22JdGordonif i do -I./bitmaps/ it works.. but is that ok?
09:30:23Lloreancrop: Nudge isn't supposed to be audible.
09:30:24XavierGrLinus: Do you happen to have an open H300 at the moment?
09:30:35Lloreancrop: It's supposed to be a very small change used for getting beats into sync.
09:30:48LinusNJdGordon: add a $bitmapsdir just like the $firmdir
09:31:13LinusNXavierGr: what do you want to know?
09:31:29*petur sits up and listens
09:32:05XavierGrwell my USB OTG broke again and while I was trying to fix it I may have short circuit the USB OTG jack casing with the capacitor just left from it
09:32:22XavierGrbut I am not sure if it was short circuited or not before I touch it
09:32:29cropLlorean: ah... to compensate for small tempo drift?
09:32:37LinusNcrop: the answer to all these questions is that the pitch screen was originally intended for dj use
09:32:53Lloreancrop: When mixing with two devices, for example, while DJing, apparently
09:32:59XavierGrnow every time I connect a USB OTG device H300 will just reset automatically
09:33:12Lloreanhen3rz_: I'd rather OCR it to .txt
09:33:49XavierGrpetur: didn't you want Linus to check a pin or something for you, now is the right time to remind it to him :P
09:33:53cropOk, so it's something special and doesn't belong to sound settings despite of the fact that it's sound related
09:34:02B4gdercoffee coffee coffee
09:34:22Lloreancrop: Well, the other aspect of pitch is that it's really "playback speed", it's just the dirtiest method of adjusting it, also increasing the pitch.
09:34:28XavierGr"coffee" the most common drug (narcotic) nowadays :P
09:34:53*petur whispers ID and VBUS to Linus :)
09:34:58LinusNXavierGr: which capacitor is it, and what do you want to know?
09:35:10cropIs it the only DJ aimed fature? I've heard something about sound effects (echo and such)
09:35:31LinusNpetur: exactly what do you want to find out?
09:35:41cropBut I don't think RB is a full geared sound machine, and it isn't also the intention
09:35:48Lloreancrop: There is the possibility of other DSP effects.
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09:36:15cropLlorean: where would they sit if implemented (menu wise?)
09:36:25Lloreancrop: Probably a DSP plugin.
09:36:44JdGordonthis isnt going to work :'( have to put the icon sizes in config.h
09:36:49cropLlorean: then the pitch screen should also go there IMHO
09:36:50peturLinusN: if the portpinassignment page is correct: is ID really only connected to that pin, and how is VBUS generated: by the ISP1362 or by an external chargepump
09:37:13Lloreancrop: The pitch screen is useful for audiobooks and other uses.
09:37:19cropLlorean: it's a simple DSP effect
09:37:22B4gderJdGordon: that's probably _one way_ yes, but not the only alternative
09:37:34B4gderbuilzip can do just about anything you want to figure it out
09:37:54*petur will bring his usbotg code to devcon for some h300 hacking :)
09:38:25XavierGrLinus: I just want to know if the USB OTG casing is short circuited with the capacitor in the circle
09:38:34LinusNthat's a diode
09:38:42XavierGrah... well
09:39:01JdGordonB4gder: I tried to get it to read apps/gui/icon.h but it kept trying to include screen_access.h (even if I manually define _SCREEN_ACCESS_H_ ) any ideas how to get around that?
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09:39:12XavierGrfrom the picture it seems it isn't but I just want to be sure
09:39:49B4gderJdGordon: I don't have the details in front of me, but it sounds like you're on the right track
09:40:32LinusNXavierGr: it is not
09:40:34cropLlorean: ok. But it's still a DSP effect. We could introduce a DSP filter (a sequence of DSPs). And even save them (the names). This could be a general platform for DSP's. But it's probably a story for the future.
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09:40:53B4gderI would check if it is a bitmap lcd, then include the correct file(s) and scan for the size(s) in the output
09:40:58XavierGrLinus: thought so, thanks
09:41:06XavierGrI was too silly to touch that part
09:41:07cropI only asked because everyone talks much about binary size and removing unneeded features
09:41:25XavierGrnow I wonder how I will manage to take the solder out with that damn solder pump I have
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09:41:44B4gdercrop: that's mostly an issue for the hwcodec targets and they can't have dsp effects anyway
09:41:45Lloreancrop: Not removing unneeded features.
09:41:59Lloreancrop: Not duplicating existing features, or adding features that are larger than they need to be.
09:42:00B4gder(the size issue I mean)
09:42:12XavierGrbut I won't open it again, next time I will wait for working USB OTG on rockbox to be able to disable overcurrent protection from the USB OTG chip
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09:45:19JdGordonB4gder: does it just run through the preproccessor? so I cant get enum values back?
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09:46:04B4gderJdGordon: yes, it only preprocesses it. But you could extend that if you really have to. Are the sizes enums??
09:46:44JdGordonno, the icon count is at the end of an enum, which I need to get the hieght
09:47:05JdGordonbut if its easier, ill just change it to a #define in config.h
09:47:35B4gderif you have a define for it, it'll be a lot easier to get using the preprocess approach
09:48:09JdGordonI'll do it as a default unless a target config defines it manually
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09:55:03JdGordonis apps/plugins/bitmaps/viewer_defaults/ an OK place to store the default bmps for the viewer icons?
09:55:26LinusNthink so
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10:07:42JdGordonok, build script fixed up, any last complaints before commit?
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10:08:39LinusNJdGordon: i think the only complaints you will get are about binary size
10:08:59*JdGordon can live with that :)
10:09:04*B4gder has no opinions as he's not keeping up with the details
10:09:06JdGordonI was thinking code wise... but ok
10:09:19LloreanYeah, I haven't even tried the patch yet. So I'll refrain from commenting. :)
10:09:27LinusNi wonder if we could even disable loadable icons on the archos targets
10:09:47JdGordon.. this is how we all got stuck into mmmm last night...
10:09:55LloreanLinusN: I don't see any reason not to disable them.
10:10:05JdGordonLinusN: meh, they barely take up space in the bin...
10:10:28peturwhat's a few KB anyway :p
10:10:30LinusN+1kbyte according to the FS entry
10:10:50JdGordonthats more the inbuilt bmp's which have to be there anyway
10:10:58LloreanI mean there's only what, 16.7 million possible 1bpp icons?
10:11:07 Quit flyinghippo (Connection timed out)
10:11:10LloreanNo, wait.
10:11:12LloreanThat's wrong.
10:11:13JdGordonill comment out the customizable code and see how it affects it
10:11:14LloreanIgnore me
10:12:46peturJdGordon: can't you just not show any icons if the bmp's aren't found?
10:12:56 Join midgey [0] (
10:13:47JdGordonpetur: ? we have to hardcode some icons... thats what svn does now anyway
10:14:54peturwe could do without if the loadable ones aren't there, no?
10:16:00JdGordonwell, we dont use viewers.config anymore to load a viewer icon, so, if everyone is happy to have the ? icon for all files supported by viewers.config then the loading can be removed.. otherwise its too hard to split the coed
10:16:13JdGordonand not worth it, seen as the viewers.bmp file needs to be loaded anyway
10:16:39peturI'd show no icon at all, not a ?
10:17:06JdGordonwell, currently no icon means we dont support the filetype
10:18:06peturno loadable icons found => no icons to see at all
10:19:30pondlifeJdGordon: Forgive me for being late to the game, but does the loadable icons patch not potentially reduce the cods size? If someone doesn't want icons, there's no need for ANY to be in memory (loaded or fixed)...
10:21:13JdGordonpondlife: no, because we still compile in a default set of icons
10:21:35hen3rz_Oh i forgot to mention this but rockbox got a mention in one of Australia largest computing Magazines
10:21:36JdGordonwe _could_ load all 40 odd icons from bmps, but having a built in set is better
10:21:43JdGordonhen3rz_: which one?
10:21:53pondlifeHmm, seems simpler to only load icons.
10:22:15pondlifeI mean, if I want to use nice colour icons, why waste memory on the mono ones?
10:22:30pondlifeOr indeed, if I decide not to show icons.
10:22:40hen3rz_They listed it as like a firmware replacement for MP3 Players
10:22:43pondlifeCould actually gain a bit of audio buffer
10:22:51hen3rz_and gave a bit of a spin on it
10:23:03B4gderhen3rz_: cool
10:23:29JdGordonpondlife: I was persuaded very early on to use a static buffer, not dynamic... but yeah, they could disable the image buffer easily
10:24:06pondlifeSeems wasteful to me to have fixed default icons, that's all.
10:24:24pondlifeSo is the icon buffer size fixed, or user-configurable?
10:24:29pondlifeOr fixed at load time
10:24:39JdGordonfixed at compile time
10:24:47pondlifeSo with a tiny set of icons there is some waste
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10:26:19pondlifeCan the iconset be changed through the UI now - the version I tried required that the CFG file was edited.
10:26:36JdGordonno, you have to use the cfg... keeps the ui neater and bin size down
10:26:50Lloreanpondlife: Just create a theme that just loads your iconset, when you create the icons.
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10:27:26pondlifeI was thinking it would be reasonable to size the buffer at load time... if the buffer isn't big enough, then prompt the user to reboot.
10:27:34JdGordonLlorean: did ou come up with a better char than m for the icons file?
10:27:54JdGordonpondlife: I started doing that, but was forcibly changed to static buffer :D
10:28:01LloreanJdGordon: Not really. I would like maybe _ rather than a letter, but I'm not sure how others would feel about it. :)
10:28:10*pondlife rates spare audio buffer above a nice UI
10:28:17Lloreanpondlife: You shouldn't have to reboot to load themes.
10:28:19JdGordonLlorean: # or $ ?
10:28:41pondlifeLlorean: Well if it frees up buffer then why not? Themes aren't changed very often..
10:28:46LloreanJdGordon: # tends to denote comments (in the WPS and Tagnavi already, so it may confuse)
10:28:57Lloreanpondlife: You might be surprised. A lot of people change them way too often (imho)
10:29:00pondlifeI mean, who seriously changes their icons more than once a month.
10:29:13JdGordonLlorean: @ ?
10:29:17pondlifeThis is an audio player...
10:29:22JdGordonpondlife: themers...
10:29:32LloreanJdGordon: I honestly don't like a character at all, really, as I said. :) I won't object though.
10:29:34pondlifeWell a reboot is hardly difficult.
10:29:42JdGordonhehe ok
10:30:04pondlifeIf it could give a simple dynamic buffer that doesn't waste space then it's surely worthwhile.
10:30:15Lloreanpondlife: Surely?
10:30:22pondlifeIMHO :)
10:30:31Lloreanpondlife: How often, on average, would you say you skip a song?
10:30:48pondlifeNot often, about 1 in 6 tracks maybe
10:30:49JdGordonLinusN: B4gder: is the diff for if you want to make sure its OK?
10:31:05Lloreanpondlife: 1 in 6 tracks is probably more damage to your battery life than this patch.
10:31:12JdGordonpondlife: which target do you use?
10:31:13pondlifeBut any loss of audio buffer will have a proportional effect.
10:31:28Lloreanpondlife: You're flushing several MB of audio data, rather than maybe 300 bytes.
10:31:42JdGordonok, so its got a fairly lare buffer... but its has 29MB of audio buffer... its not really wasting much
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10:31:56LinusNJdGordon: no complaints
10:31:56pondlifeHmm, I thought I lost about 0.5MB when I tried the patch
10:31:56Lloreanpondlife: Here's a tip
10:32:23pondlifeAnd... what about the Archos targets?
10:32:25Lloreanpondlife: Make your playlists, then set the "max files in folder" to the absolute minimum to recover that memory, and that can make up for the static sized buffer.
10:32:48pondlifeLlorean: I tend to use a single playlist of all tracks. 22000
10:33:02pondlifeI don't wish to change that.
10:33:07LloreanI didn't say to change that
10:33:17LloreanI said to change the "Max files in folder" option (and related options)
10:33:22pondlifeWell, I already have set my playlist and folder size
10:33:34LloreanDo you have the folder size set at the minimum?
10:33:45pondlifeYes, for me. 500.
10:33:46*petur once tried random playback of all his songs and felt the different music styles didn't quite fit
10:33:51Lloreanpondlife: 500 is not the minimum
10:33:58pondlifeIt is for my root folder :)
10:34:08Lloreanpondlife: Then you're wasting more RAM than this patch should.
10:34:23Lloreanpondlife: Organize your folders so you can set it lower, and you can recover buffer space.
10:34:23SliMMwhich is better: using bitmaps or drawing smth by code?
10:34:31pondlifeYes, but I need that to play audio. I don't even have icons displayed normally.
10:34:43Lloreanpondlife: Or just set it lower. If you've already created a playlist, and you only use it, you don't need to be able to see the whole folder (those limits don't keep the playlist from working)
10:34:45 Part LinusN
10:34:45 Quit grndslm (Connection reset by peer)
10:35:02Lloreanpondlife: You need a 500 folder root to play audio? You can't organize it?
10:35:18pondlifeNo, I choose to have an artist/album structure
10:35:26pondlifeIt has served me well for many years
10:35:44LloreanSo, your point is "I'm not willing to make a simple change to recover audio buffer, but you should make other people have to restart their player to change to bigger icons"
10:36:00pondlifeNo. My point is this should be dynamic.
10:36:15LloreanAnd we told you, dynamic would require restarting the player for larger icons.
10:36:24pondlifeHonestly, why would somebody change to bigger icons more than once a day
10:36:47pondlifeA reboot is absolutely trivial.
10:36:47LloreanHonestly, why wouldn't someone divide their Artists up by Letter?
10:36:54LloreanA reboot is "annoying" to most users.
10:37:08pondlifeTo you maybe
10:37:14B4gderyeah, browsing through "themes" will be very painful
10:37:15pondlifeI don't see the stats.
10:37:19B4gderif we require reboots
10:37:28peturwindows users are used to it :p
10:37:34pondlifeOK, you win..
10:37:44Lloreanpondlife: My point is, why aren't YOU willing to accept a little annoyance?
10:37:45*pondlife grumbles in his corner
10:37:49LloreanYou say "Others should" not "I will"
10:37:55LloreanOrganize your folders by letter
10:38:14pondlifeThat's not a little annoyance, that's pretty fundamental to the way I organise my PC and DAPs
10:38:16JdGordongrrr... bloody rec screen!
10:38:23Lloreanpondlife: I don't think it's fundamental
10:38:32Lloreanpondlife: It means you can scroll to where you want to be much quicker. Better efficiency
10:38:41LloreanIt's a matter of opinion
10:38:42roolkuJdGordon: can you change the "Save Theme Settings" to include the icon set?
10:38:52Lloreanpondlife: The point is, you want to impose your opinion on others
10:38:56pondlifeNot at all.
10:38:58Lloreanpondlife: And you won't accept my opinion imposed on you.
10:39:02JdGordonroolku: they should be in that file...
10:39:03Lloreanpondlife: You want to impose it on me.
10:39:18pondlifeOK, why not make it configurable
10:39:19LloreanYou said that *I* should accept having my player need to reboot to choose larger icons.
10:39:28LloreanYes, you did.
10:39:34pondlifeWe haven't committed the patch yet :p
10:39:41*scorche gives Llorean and pondlife each a set of boxing gloves
10:39:47LloreanWhat does whether it's committed or not have to do with it.
10:40:00LloreanYou said that it should be dynamic, which requires a reboot for size changes.
10:40:07pondlifeNot necessarily
10:40:13pondlifeWhy not make it configurable too?
10:40:18LloreanMake what configurable?
10:40:19pondlifei.e. part of the theme
10:40:35peturwhat a silly idea
10:40:42Lloreanpondlife: What "it" should be made configurable?
10:40:46LloreanYou've not given a noun to associate it with.
10:40:56LloreanUnless you mean "it" as "whether you need to reboot"
10:41:18*pondlife waves white flag
10:41:38JdGordonanyone know which file the recording screen is in?
10:41:44pondlife...and runs back to release 2.5
10:41:55peturJdGordon: apps/recorder/recording.c
10:42:08JdGordonbah, thanks, forgot about recorder/
10:42:10Lloreanpondlife: It's just your argument makes no sense. Why not argue for dynamic buffers for Plugins, WPSes, and the voice codec while you're at it?
10:42:23LloreanWhich requires malloc, or reboots
10:42:25peturoh no...
10:42:35*petur hides under a rock
10:42:35pondlifeThey should all be dynamic ideally
10:42:41pondlifeBut no malloc argument from me
10:42:43Lloreanpondlife: Figure out how without malloc or reboots then.
10:43:10pondlifeWell, I don't actually see the problem with reboots.... personally, but as you said that is subjective..
10:43:23LloreanI don't see the problem with organizing your music properly (by my standard)
10:43:29pondlifeIf you hate it so much that you don't mind wasting audio buffer then fine.
10:44:07pondlifeWell, I can reorganise my music if you so choose - but I would still want to maximise audio buffer.
10:44:28Lloreanpondlife: You aren't right now
10:44:31LloreanWhy start?
10:44:56pondlifeI'm talking about the general principle.
10:45:26LloreanRockbox's architecture assumes static buffers.
10:45:29pondlife#1 KISS = good, #2 more audio buffer = good
10:45:48Lloreanpondlife: Prove the latter, thanks.
10:45:50pondlifeAnd #0 stability = good
10:45:58LloreanMore audio buffer is ONLY good if you have certain listening habits.
10:46:01JdGordonrec screen doesnt use the UI font :'(
10:46:04pondlifeLlorean: You don't use an Archos recorder
10:46:08Lloreanpondlife: Yes, I do.
10:46:29pondlifeSorry didn't get the ? in... I wasn't asserting that
10:46:37peturjdGordon: it's waiting for a WRS
10:46:39LloreanBut the point is, more audio buffer on the majority of our targets is bad under certain listening habits.
10:47:08LloreanFor "browsers", more audio buffer is worse.
10:47:14peturJdGordon even
10:47:37JdGordonenums default to ints right?
10:47:37LloreanWhile it is ideal to keep as much free as possible, nitpicking over a few kilobytes because we're using a static buffer is ridiculous.
10:47:39pondlifeHmm, so our buffering algorithm has a weakness.
10:47:51peturJdGordon: yes
10:47:52*pondlife is officially ridiculous
10:47:55LloreanOur buffering algorithm fills the buffer with what's coming up next.
10:47:57JdGordonpetur: ok ta
10:48:00pondlifeI know
10:48:09LloreanThat's a strength if the user follows one listening habit
10:48:13LloreanAnd a weakness following another.
10:48:38LloreanAnd you can't make one that favours both, one way would sacrifice the other.
10:48:38pondlifeSo you are saying that for a "browser" we shouldn't bother reading so much stuff - and could perhaps save disk power?
10:49:13LloreanYou can't really do anything for a browser.
10:50:05pondlifeSo focus on improving for the non-browser, whilst not making things worse for the browser.
10:50:30pondlifeAnyway, you won
10:50:52LloreanYou reorganized your music? ;)
10:51:13pondlifeBut I shall carry on not trying to worry about buffer space (until amiconn mentions it) :)
10:51:24pondlifeThat should give me 2 days of happines
10:51:48pondlifeI should add that I really want to see loadable icons committed.
10:52:51Lloreanpondlife: At 1bpp, a buffer for 32 loadable icons is 18k I believe.
10:53:24pondlifeOK, so that should basically be the same size as the default icons used before, right?
10:53:32 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
10:54:01LloreanWell now you have defaults + maximum number of tagnavi icons, I believe.
10:54:09LloreanSo, defaults + 32, I think?
10:54:10amiconnLlorean: ?? Should be far less
10:54:11*Llorean doesn't know.
10:54:21Lloreanamiconn: 24x24x32x1?
10:54:30pondlifeOK, fair enough if we gain functionalilty.
10:54:40amiconnYou forgot /8
10:54:47amiconn1bpp is bits, not bytes
10:54:53LloreanYes, I completely forgot 8
10:54:54LloreanOr /8
10:55:05LloreanSo, 2.25k
10:56:04hen3rz_For those interested B4gder, JdGordon Here are some links to the article: hen3rz/APC_Mag_May_2007_02.jpg"> ,
10:56:56hen3rz_Woops i linked the first page second sorry
10:57:36 Quit cadu ("Fui embora")
10:57:38JdGordonthey recommend 150mb free space!
10:57:54hen3rz_Hahaha yeah i was wondering the same
10:58:11B4gderto make room for 10 downloaded copies! ;-P
10:58:24pondlifeBetter safe than sorry!!
10:58:34LloreanJdGordon: Doom, Doom 2, TNT, Plutionia, Freedoom, it all adds up. :-P
10:58:43B4gderyeah, it's not very likely to be a problem to people anyway
10:58:54scorchewell, besides that and the outdated installation instructions, it seems to be a decent article
10:58:57amiconnLlorean: Btw, malloc or reboot aren't the only alternatives
10:59:08Lloreanamiconn: Use the plugin buffer?
10:59:15*JdGordon has no idea how the rec screen draws its icons... so commits and hopes noone notices
10:59:16pondlifeYou can stop playback
10:59:23pondlifeand resize the audio buffer.
10:59:35JdGordoncausing mem leaks
10:59:40scorchehrm?...they call the connector from the HD to the ipod IDE..
10:59:43amiconnIn the past an idea showed up several times to implement a way to re-alloc all dynamic allocations from the buffer
11:00:05Lloreanamiconn: I really wouldn't mind just having to stop playback at all.
11:00:21amiconnYes, that would need to happen, but no reboot
11:00:29*Llorean would be all for that.
11:00:48markunamiconn: nice work on moving all the SH1 stuff to target tree
11:00:56*JdGordon doesnt like that idea so much
11:00:57amiconnmarkun: It's not yet finished
11:01:04pondlifeErm, I should have been much more precise earlier... for "reboot" I was actually thinking of stopping/restarting playback...
11:01:19amiconnJdGordon: Would you mind if I just close your patch for moving the archos player to target tree?
11:01:20pondlifeStill it's early Monday morning here :(
11:01:41amiconnIt's superseded by the all-archos move except power.c now
11:01:56JdGordonamiconn: no, go for it
11:02:10markunamiconn: after that it's mainly the pnx0101 stuff which needs moving, right?
11:02:11 Join Entasis [0] (
11:02:32Lloreanpondlife: See, "reboot" to me means "Spend 3-5 seconds holding poweroff, release, and then hold it for 2 more, then wait 7" on the gigabeat (as a worst case)
11:02:48LloreanSince RoLo doesn't work yet, and the power button takes a while, and the flash loader takes a while... etc.
11:02:56amiconnpower.c will follow soon. I was hoping to do that in conjunction with a powermgmt cleanup, but that probably won't happen just now. Too many other pending stuff atm
11:02:57LloreanOf course, on the Nano, it's like, 2.5 seconds
11:03:12amiconnPerhaps I'll work a little bit on runcurrent() for the targets I have though
11:03:37amiconnmarkun: That, and it looks like some s3c2440 stuff isn't moved (iirc)
11:03:42pondlifeYup. I've only used H340 and Archos Recorder. Both of those are pretty quick starters.
11:04:23markunamiconn: oh, oops
11:04:24amiconnpondlife: Even if archoses boot quick there's an annoyance in having to reboot, at least for targets with rombox
11:04:44pondlifeNo problem. See my later comment... I meant "restart playback".
11:04:57Lloreanpondlife: Rebooting on the Gigabeat leaves me plenty of spare time to get other things done. Taxes, cleaning the apartment, you name it. :)
11:05:04amiconnIf you want to continue running from rom you can't just rolo, you need to shut down + restart. And first disconnect the charger if it's connected
11:05:32pondlifeSo.. the reason my tax return was late was that I didn't do enough rebooting...
11:07:10pondlifeJdGordon: Whereabouts do the loaded icons fit into ?
11:07:38pondlifeAfter cuesheet buffer?
11:07:56JdGordonpondlife: static buffer... at compile time...
11:08:17pondlifeYes, but where in memory?
11:08:33JdGordonwherever gcc puts them
11:08:54JdGordonstatic unsigned char icon_buffer[IMG_BUFSIZE][NB_SCREENS];
11:09:11amiconnpetur: I wonder about your DevCon2007 edit. I am unaware of any target that doesn't build... (except the pending ones linuxstb keeps forgetting about ;) )
11:09:12pondlifeSo part of the binary size
11:09:22Lloreanamiconn: iFP?
11:09:30LloreanI know someone tried recently and said it failed.
11:09:56amiconnpondlife: bss isn't part of the binary size
11:10:10peturamiconn: I meant the binary size issue some builds have
11:10:35Stalwartdoes anyone know what's the latest appleos for nano 1g?
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11:10:58Stalwarta little bit off topic here, but i dunno where else i can ask
11:11:08pondlifeamiconn: Maybe it should be included in the delta table if possible?
11:11:13JdGordonholy crap! power problem at uni today, put to electrical contractors into hospital when they went to check the problem :(
11:11:19LloreanStalwart: Apple tells you their version numbers with their updates...
11:11:31Stalwarti don't have windows and itunes
11:11:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:11:34Stalwarti use rockbox
11:12:05LloreanIt's on their website
11:12:12LloreanBut if you don't intend to use it, it's rather irrelevant.
11:12:12Stalwartoh, where?
11:12:25LloreanI don't know, I just know I've seen it before. Try searching a bit.
11:12:51Stalwartone of many reasons to switch to rockbox for me was bug in 1.3 firmware - nano didn't turn off
11:13:08JdGordonis there (or will the be) a schedule or the rough times devcon ppl would be ttalking about different topics?
11:13:20*JdGordon would like to attend over skype for some discussion
11:14:11scorcheoooo...that is a good idea
11:14:20scorcheskype + webcam
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11:15:10JdGordonB4gder: would skype be possible?
11:15:17 Join inversions [0] (
11:15:19SliMMStalwart: ipods generally don't turn off, they just go into standby
11:15:20JdGordonI remember you had a webcam last year setup
11:15:39pondlifeYep, but 2 way links would be great
11:16:20scorchedoes skype allow you to have a video conference?....i know it will let you have an audio conference
11:16:34StalwartSliMM: mine didn't go even to standby
11:16:34scorchenot sure if more than 2 can stream video though..
11:16:36*JdGordon doesnt have a webcam.. so only need voice :p
11:16:58bluebrotherif this works it tempts me to buy a webcam ...
11:17:01Stalwartscorche: skype allows video conversations
11:17:05SliMMstalwart: ok :) anyway, rockbox is far better
11:17:07Stalwartwindows and mac versions
11:17:18scorcheStalwart: i know it does...i said that...but a conference?
11:17:30Stalwartscorche: yes, conference
11:17:44*Stalwart gone to check
11:17:48scorchehrm....2 others with skype and a webcam willing to test? ;)
11:17:51Stalwarti use linux version, no video here ;[
11:18:10*petur votes for gizmo
11:18:18JdGordonfirst hit on google says yes
11:18:27Stalwartgoogle talk rules anyway ;)
11:18:31Stalwartxmpp ftw!
11:19:10scorcheregardless, a voice only conference would be desired =)
11:19:31pondlifeYep, voice conference + webcam out for all...
11:19:42bluebrothercan google talk do video conferences?
11:19:50Stalwartafaik it can with latest versions
11:19:56*JdGordon keeps that saturday night free :p
11:20:48bluebrotherxmpp sounds better than skype ;-)
11:21:07scorcheit doesnt matter to me as long as it works
11:21:59scorcheisnt xmpp text only though?
11:22:17Stalwartxmpp is extensible only :)
11:22:24peturit's used for the connection setup iirc
11:22:26bluebrotherxmpp works quite well for chatting ... and google talk uses it ;-)
11:22:49Stalwartlibjingle implements voice calls over xmpp
11:22:52bluebrotherafaik it uses RTP anyway but replaces SIP with xmpp / jingle
11:23:39scorchewell, point is, be ready for a few conference calls (it is already are doing it B4gder ;)
11:24:02*scorche moves behind bluebrother
11:24:18bluebrotherwhy behind me?
11:24:24*bluebrother starts to fear ...
11:24:28scorchebecause you are there!
11:25:06peturbinsize results are in ....
11:25:09Stalwartxmpp is very nice, but next few years skype will rule VoIP
11:25:50*petur removed skype as their stupid masternode was eating all his bandwidth
11:26:06bluebrotherwoah. Quite red deltas ...
11:26:36Stalwartpetur: just restart skype every ~6 hours and you won't get supernode status ;)
11:26:40bluebrothermaybe the deltas should use more different colors. Dark red for delta > 500 bytes or so ;)
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11:28:45amiconnCompared to what it does, the deltas are ok. Not nice, but ok :/
11:29:03 Join Br3nda [0] (
11:29:17JdGordon500bytes isnt bad :)
11:29:36peturor 4800 on h300
11:29:38bluebrotherJdGordon: did you forget to set some svn properties? The bitmaps aren't shown correctly with viewvc
11:29:52hen3rz_Wow this custom icon thing will be pretty cool
11:30:05JdGordoni asked the other day about adding them correctly and was told you dont need to do anything special
11:30:12 Join Llorea1 [0] (
11:30:15amiconnIt's ~1K on all bitmap archoses. The binsizes for recorder are misleading
11:30:27JdGordonbluebrother: can you fix them for me please? /me going back to dinner
11:30:50bluebrotherafaik you need to set the properties yourself unless you enabled autoprops
11:30:54bluebrothercan do that.
11:32:35bluebrotherJdGordon: strange, svn tells me they are set. Maybe it's just viewvc choking around
11:33:19bluebrotherthought it should cope with that as it works fine with the png images in the manual
11:34:04Llorea1Why does the e200 have the worst delta?
11:34:04bluebrotherok, it _is_ viewvc to blame. Sorry for causing confusion.
11:34:18bluebrotherLlorea1: I guess because of the mi4 thing
11:34:24Llorea1I thought the X5 and H300 would be the worst due to their color screens plus LCD remote.
11:34:58Llorea1bluebrother: But it added 700 more to the e200 than any other MI4 target...
11:35:01*Llorea1 shrugs
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11:35:15*bluebrother is just guessing :P
11:35:26LloreanIt could very well be, but it seems curious to me.
11:37:14*Llorean sees no icons.
11:37:24GodEaterLlorean: I didn't either till I changed theme
11:37:31GodEaterthat seemed to force them to draw
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11:38:36markunanyone in here who speaks Russian?
11:38:54LloreanGodEater: Ah, I detect a MAJOR problem.
11:39:12LloreanThe default icons are black and white, but they aren't treated as "mono"
11:39:18LloreanIE, they don't match the font color.
11:39:25LloreanNo icons for me, because I've a black background
11:39:58GodEaterah same here
11:40:02GodEaterI *was* using cabbie
11:40:18LloreanI was using a slightly modified cabbie. :)
11:40:19GodEaterswitched to something with a light background and then they became visisble
11:43:59GodEatersame deal in 7words, the icons are only barely visible
11:44:06GodEaterdark blue background
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11:47:59cropWhy is #define NOICON Icon_NOICON (icon.h:27 and :30) repeated? To be easier to chnge in the future?
11:49:08cropThere is also a typo in the comment icon.h:35. Is it cmp or bmp?
11:50:30LloreanJdGordon: Currently the default iconset doesn't change with the font color. IMHO this is very bad.
11:51:03*GodEater agrees with Llorean
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11:53:15JdGordonLlorean: they dont?
11:53:28LloreanJdGordon: Nope
11:53:39LloreanJdGordon: You made them bitmap native instead of bitmap mono, I assume
11:55:02LloreanAlso, the first image in my viewers bmp is being used for my playlists, even though my .icons file actually never references image 0.
11:55:41markunJdGordon: nice work, looks great here with aliask's icons
11:56:12JdGordonLlorean: one thing at a time :p
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11:57:03pondlifeJdGordon: When you're ready, I have a bit of minor breakage to report too...
11:57:30*JdGordon thinks transparent_bitmap_part doesnt do the forground coolour changing...
11:57:37JdGordonpondlife: shoot, i was beign silly
11:57:42LloreanJdGordon: It's never supposed to
11:57:53LloreanJdGordon: If you need a transparent bitmap, that means it's not Mono, and only Mono does foreground/background
11:58:00JdGordonso we either have black icons, or colour and purple
11:58:09pondlifemake install on a sim build gives an error: "cp: cannot stat ./home/Steve/rockbox/apps/plugins/bitmaps/viewer_defaults/remote_viewers.6x6x1.bmp':
11:58:09pondlife No such file or directory"
11:58:39pondlifeI thought that was odd too
11:58:54pondlifeThis is an H300 simulator
11:59:11JdGordonbah, fixed
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12:00:05JdGordonLlorean: can you put your icons file up somewhere? and the bmp you use?
12:00:52LloreanJdGordon: I used elisherers with the m3u entry removed from the .icons file
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12:01:27roolkuwhat does "wav,viewers/wavplay,*0" in viewer.config mean? (I assume - is no icon?)
12:01:44JdGordonLlorean: did you replace the 'b' with * ?
12:01:58JdGordonroolku: it means use the first icon in the main set instead of the viewers iconset
12:02:09spiorfjust a little build question: there is a way to tell configure that i want the normal ipod nano build from the command line?
12:02:14LloreanJdGordon: I removed the line entirely.
12:02:33pondlifeJdGordon: Did you consider making icon sets have an .icn extension, and allowing the iconset to be configured in a similar way to fonts
12:02:53JdGordonpondlife: how do you mean?
12:03:07roolkuJdGordon: considering that there are 3 different entries for wav (-, *0 and 10) which one is going to be used?
12:03:15pondlifei.e. allow browsing to a file to set the current icons?
12:03:26 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:03:44pondlifeFWIW Browsing to Eli's BMP files actually crashes the sim at the moment...
12:04:03JdGordonroolku: none :D wav is inbuilt, so that number is ignored completly
12:04:44roolkuJdGordon: how very intuitive :)
12:04:52LloreanJdGordon: I think there are problems with changing from one iconset to another perhaps.
12:05:21pondlifeI am seeing odd heights when changing...
12:05:48LloreanJdGordon: I'm seeing Audio files (MP3, flac) showing my playlist icon for some reason, now.
12:06:41LloreanAnd this was after I manually added an m3u line back into the .icons file, and reloaded the theme
12:07:25JdGordonyour one up on me... Im not getting any icon shown for my mp3s... this was all working before :'(
12:07:39*JdGordon wonders what he changed in the last 2 hours
12:07:42LloreanJdGordon: It looks like built in filetypes aren't working.
12:09:58LloreanJdGordon: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm *not* supposed to be able to change, say, MP3 with my .icons file?
12:10:01JdGordonhmm... something broke the icons file handlign
12:10:36JdGordonLlorean: you are supposed to be allowed to
12:10:37LloreanThe problem seems to be if you have it in the icons file, then load one without it.
12:10:41JdGordonwell, it sort of happened that way, i didnt add extra code to allow it :)
12:11:05pondlifeCan someone else do a quick check for me with a SVN build...? i.e. not icon-related, so don't want to distract JDGordon...
12:11:18LloreanIf I have mp3 at the beginning, then remove it, mp3 gets to share an icon with something else, it seems
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12:12:57pondlifeLlorean: Do you have a copy of Eli's custom_icons.16x16x16.bmp (or 6x8x16) on your DAP?
12:14:01pondlifeOK, just try browsing to the BMP file and selecting it.
12:14:05pondlifeWhat happens?
12:14:19cropHe-he. We now have the time of great delta commits
12:14:47bluebrotherwhen was we-want-rombox-back-time scheduled again? ;-)
12:14:48Lloreanpondlife: "Can't open" and then some garbage
12:15:25Lloreanpondlife: It's trying to open something in /.rockbox/rocks/
12:15:35pondlifeLlorean: OK, I get a segfault in filetype_get_plugin
12:15:53pondlifeIn snprintf to be precise.
12:16:01Lloreanpondlife: Have you tried opening a .txt?
12:16:07pondlifeNope, good idea
12:16:33*Llorean doesn't have one on his player
12:17:05LloreanOkay, I didn't *think* I had one
12:17:26pondlifeSeems to work ok
12:17:36LloreanSo it's just the bitmap viewer?
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12:17:52pondlifeMaybe try some other bitmaps?
12:18:22Lloreanpondlife: No bitmaps seem to work
12:18:29Lloreanbut rockpaint runs fine on its own
12:19:04LloreanIcons slightly bigger than the font size actually look kinda cool
12:19:20LloreanThey overlap but it doesn't look horrible.
12:19:34LloreanNow, if I didn't have to have a .icons file that included very filetype on my player...
12:21:33JdGordonpondlife: i have a sneaking feeling this has been broken since i redid filetypes.c
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12:22:18LloreanJdGordon: Why does just .bmp get the shaft though?
12:22:50pondlifeJdGordon: It's not a new bug today
12:22:50JdGordonbecause its the only one that is built in but not handled by onplay.c
12:23:06*pondlife loves special cases :(
12:23:25LloreanWell, if we removed the ability to manually set backdrops, it would go away wouldn't it?
12:23:43JdGordonit would... but ill fix the problem properly
12:23:51JdGordonjust want to fix these icons
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12:24:15pondlifeIs it a sensible idea to browse to an .iconset file?
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12:24:30pondlife(or whatever extension you choose)
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12:24:47JdGordonits a .cfg :)
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12:35:24*JdGordon thinks about removing ctrl-c/v from my system
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12:51:22amiconnJdGordon, pondlife: That happens when doing steps out of order...
12:51:47amiconnBitmap drawing will soon auto-select mono/native depending on the bitmap, but not just yet
12:52:02*amiconn is referring to the black-on-black icons
12:52:03JdGordonah, great
12:52:45amiconnJdGordon: Just a hint regarding wavplay. .wav files are supposed to have a different icon than the audio files supported by the core on hwcodec
12:53:40JdGordonok, the wavplay icon isnt using the inbuilt icon anymore
12:53:41pondlifeamiconn: ? What's it got to do with me? ;p
12:54:03amiconnJust for info, as you pointed out the problem
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12:54:53pondlifeI didn't... I spotted the broken BMP, but Llorean spotted the mono/native stuff
12:55:15pondlifeAnyway, I'm no longer confused so will make the most of it
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13:01:33 Part B4gder
13:02:15JdGordonLlorean: im not 100% i fixed the problem but i cant work on it any more untill later tonight
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13:04:20amiconnJdGordon: No proper default icons for main lcd grayscale?
13:05:12JdGordongrey is using b+w untill someone comes along with some skill...
13:05:16*JdGordon busy for next while
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13:09:25Llorean JdGordon: Warnings, and not an okay one.
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13:11:06spiorfthere is already an "official" plave where to put icon themes?
13:11:22Lloreanspiorf: No.
13:11:24JdGordonCustomIcons when someone fixes it up to look nice :p
13:11:32LloreanJdGordon: You've got a warning to fix
13:11:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
13:11:38LloreanI think you did == NULL instead of == false, but I'm not sure
13:11:49JdGordonno i did viewer instead of plugin
13:11:53JdGordonsame diff :p
13:11:57LloreanI was close.
13:12:05*JdGordon really really gone.. or gonna fail this assingment
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13:13:36Lloreanamiconn: If a 24-bit bitmap is loaded on a 1-bit display, is it reduced to 1-bit (though it'd look mostly quite bad) or will it cause problems other than looking bad?
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13:14:22amiconnThe bmp loader always converts to native depth (or mono if requested - that's a do-nothing on mono targets)
13:14:57Lloreanspiorf: There should probably just be an IconSets wiki page, since they can be used on all targets equally (though how they look may differ if they're color and used on a non-color target)
13:17:14spiorfLlorean, we should put there a zip containing all the needed files or only bmp files?
13:18:55LloreanI would suggest that it have a .cfg file named Icons_Name.cfg in /.rockbox/themes (for example Icons_RedandBlue.cfg)
13:19:42LloreanIt should have only the 1-4 lines necessary to load the iconsets, and change nothing else.
13:19:53bluebrotherwhy not in a folder called icons/?
13:20:13Lloreanbluebrother: The /.rockbox/icons folder is for the actual icon files
13:21:10bluebrothersure, but the icons need a configuration too
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13:21:24bluebrotherand that configuration is specific to the icon file
13:21:39LloreanIcons are loaded by two lines in a .cfg file
13:21:47LloreanOne for the normal icons, and one for the viewer icons.
13:21:55bluebrotherah, you mean loading a icon set separately?
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13:22:10LloreanAn icon set should always be a part of a theme
13:22:15LloreanEven if the whole theme is *just* the icon set. :)
13:22:29LloreanYou can't load just the .bmp, or load the .icon file
13:22:40bluebrotherI thought you meant the icon -> file mapping configuration
13:22:46LloreanAh, no
13:22:48bluebrotheri.e. the .icon file.
13:22:48LloreanThe .cfg
13:22:56LloreanThe .icon file goes in /.rockbox/icons
13:23:06bluebrotherok, then I got you wrong. Sorry.
13:23:33LloreanI probably wasn't as clear as I could've been
13:23:47bluebrotherbut shouldn't icons always be "bundled" with a theme anyway?
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13:25:19LloreanYes, but that theme could just be a foreground and background color change, font change, and icon set, for use with any text-based WPS you feel like (as long as the font doesn't break it) for example
13:25:42LloreanI don't think we're going to get people to not make "just" icon sets.
13:26:24bluebrotherno. But we also don't need to announce it ;)
13:26:42bluebrotherthe people knowing it's possible may do, the others won't care about it
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13:27:19LloreanYeah, but people are going to want to post their full iconsets somewhere, and either we should ban them from 'official' locations outright, or come up with a good policy in advance. :)
13:27:24bluebrotherto be exactly, a theme could also set e.g. icon settings. But I don't think it's intended to do this
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13:27:47LloreanI think themes *should* set whether menus display icons, and possibly load an icon set.
13:27:59LloreanAnd pick if there's a line-selector, and whether it's the full line or the image, etc.
13:28:13LloreanPeople don't make use of all the theme options, I think.
13:28:17bluebrotherwith the customizeable icons this becomes to make sense
13:28:40bluebrotherbut I wouldn't e.g. like it if a theme sets the line selector to something I don't want
13:28:41LloreanThe line-selector image should be treated as an icon...
13:28:53Lloreanbluebrother: Make a small change to the theme?
13:29:24LloreanI'm going to have to change some of these icons, for example, because I'm pretty sure I don't like a few of 'em.
13:29:33bluebrotherok, replace theme by "official theme" ;)
13:30:22LloreanJd|NOT_HERE: Looks good so far at least.
13:30:48Lloreanbluebrother: create a simple .cfg file that just has the line "Line Pointer: my_pointer.bmp"
13:31:04LloreanThen you can fix *any* theme by resetting your pointer.
13:31:35LloreanI just like the idea of not cluttering the "Open With" menu with theme options.
13:31:50bluebrotheryeah, that's right.
13:32:24LloreanIt'd be nice if Browse Themes could show subfolders then, though.
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13:32:29LloreanOne day, one day.
13:33:55JdGordonLlorean: that commit fixed the icon wierdness?
13:33:59*JdGordon can play again
13:34:45LloreanJdGordon: It seems to at least
13:39:34PaulJami'm having problems with the viewers icons, it lools like the first few icons are overlayed by the contents of the remote_viewers.bmp . does someone see something wrong with the icons:
13:40:05LloreanPaulJam: Are you running the very newest revision?
13:40:18LloreanBecause there was a problem like that with the initial commit, but it should be fixed.
13:40:47PaulJamah, i'll do an update then.
13:41:38pondlifeJdGordon: I get some warnings when building a sim now: "gui/icon.c:58: warning: excess elements in array initializer" for example
13:42:20Lloreanpondlife: The build table doesn't show warnings in the sims.
13:42:39pondlifeIndeed. But that's no excuse for adding warnings...
13:43:07*pondlife is being picky (again)
13:43:29LloreanI'm confused. My point was "there don't seem to be warnings for the build servers"
13:43:43pondlifeAh, ok. I understand you now.
13:44:19pondlifeOK, must be me and my Cygwin. Maybe I need a make clean...
13:45:05*JdGordon wonders why pondlife is getting that warning
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13:45:29PaulJami don't get that warnin when building the h300 sim
13:45:50LloreanJdGordon: Maybe the make clean will fix it.
13:45:57JdGordonshould do
13:45:58LloreanPaulJam: All better with the current build, then?
13:46:09PaulJamstill compiling..
13:46:15LloreanYou could just download it...
13:46:41PaulJamoh, mybe i should have mentione, that this was with the uisim.
13:47:04*JdGordon looks forward to being able to rolo onto the build on my mSD card :'(
13:47:35*petur points JdGordon to misc.c
13:47:55peturah wait, you can't access that card yet :)
13:48:00JdGordonyeah :D
13:50:29LloreanJdGordon: If no .icons file is present, does it just use the assignments from the existing tagnavi?
13:50:30pondlifeJdGordon: Yep, make clean fixed it
13:50:32PaulJamLlorean: the problem is still there in the sim
13:51:06JdGordonLlorean: if by tagnavi you mean viewers then it should.. figuring out why its not now
13:52:20LloreanPaulJam: What exactly happens
13:52:23LloreanJdGordon: Yeah, viewers.
13:52:58LloreanPaulJam: By which I mean, which icon shows for which type of file that it shouldn't?
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13:53:07LloreanJdGordon: It's not?
13:53:10pondlifeShould BMP files open in Rockpaint?
13:53:15Lloreanpondlife: Yes
13:53:27pondlifeOK, it doesn't any more..
13:53:34JdGordonLlorean: doesnt appear to
13:53:34pondlifebut at least it doesn't crash
13:54:16pondlifeI mean by default
13:54:16pondlifeNot using Open With
13:54:16dionoeaYou need to use open with
13:54:17pondlifeAh, now that DOES crash!
13:54:35LloreanPaulJam: Everything seems to be working fine with your iconset here, I need to know what exactly I'm looking for.
13:54:49dionoeaAnd i'm not sure that you can open files bigger than the screen (in any direction) with rockpaint
13:54:55dionoea(although it shouldn't crash)
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13:55:06pondlifedionoea: That's my take on it too
13:55:12PaulJamLlorean: i'll upload a screendump...
13:55:27dionoeaI originaly planed to make that possible but never got to actualy coding it
13:55:40dionoea(The code needs some heavy cleanup too)
13:55:55JdGordondionoea: does it use the standard bmp loader function?
13:56:08dionoeaAs far as i remember it does
13:56:24PaulJamLlorean: 070416-135307.bmp
13:56:31Mmmmhello Amiconn....are you about?
13:57:09dionoeait uses rb->read_bmp_file
13:57:18dionoeathat looks standard to me
13:57:24LloreanPaulJam: My flacs look fine.
13:57:30LloreanWith your iconset even.
13:57:44JdGordondionoea: ok, then it wont let you open a file wider than the screen... but higher is fine
13:57:57dionoeaah, pondlife, it should crop the file if it's bigger than the screen
13:58:01PaulJamhmm, maybe then i should try it on the target
13:58:02markunMmmm: too bad he isn't here right now
13:58:08dionoeaso it definitively shouldn't crash (unless the core function crashes)
13:58:08LloreanPaulJam: Which simulator are you using, and can I assume it's unpatched?
13:58:09markunwe thought you would be back after the revert
13:58:32PaulJamyes, unpatched h300 sim
13:58:55Mmmmmarkun: yeah...always missing each other ;)
13:59:40LloreanPaulJam: Okay, compiling one now
14:00:14MmmmUnfortunately I cant hang about for long, just 30 mins or so.
14:00:51JdGordonFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!! no wonder my sim isnt working... viewers.config is empty :'(
14:00:53markunMmmm: maybe better to email him then?
14:01:10LloreanJdGordon: That's somewhat of a problem, yes.
14:01:15markunwhere's Bagder when you need him to kick someone..
14:01:30*Bagder hides
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14:03:41LloreanPaulJam: It looks like the remote icons are being used on the main screen in the sim for some reason.
14:03:53LloreanPaulJam: Dunno if it'll happen on-target or not
14:04:05Mmmmif amiconn gets here after I've gone. The timer patch needs a complete rewrite from scratch to minimize its size. Proportional fonts didnt even cross my mind, I've never used them. Was that the only problem with getting it to work on the Ondio? Yes Null pointer...oops.
14:05:38JdGordonLlorean: where is this happening?
14:05:43markunMmmm: at least your commit got a big discussion going that committers should discuss their patches more before committing
14:06:01PaulJamLlorean: on the target this happens for me too.
14:06:05LloreanJdGordon: Compile an H300 sim, and try the .zip PaulJam provided.
14:06:40Mmmmmarkun: the only problem is that when I have tried to get people to test patches on IRC in the past, noone is interested!
14:07:11Mmmmthe only way to get a response (for testing) is in the forums
14:07:22Mmmmor has been for me anyway...
14:07:24*dionoea suggests writing doom patches to get people interested
14:07:32markunMmmm: there was some talk about using the dev ml more
14:07:38Mmmmheh heh.. yeah, that'd do it!
14:07:41LloreanThe dev-ml needs to be used more a lot, yeah.
14:07:56Bagderwell, I believe amiconn is one of those who don't use it enough...
14:08:03markunMmmm: anyway, just committing is not a nice way to make people pay attention to your work
14:08:08JdGordonMmmm: i guarentee if you said it was a 3k delta we would have given you more attention :p
14:08:25Lloreanmarkun: In his defense, it had been pretty widely used, in theory, by people in the forums.
14:08:49Mmmmlots tested it and i improved it from their comments!
14:08:54Mmmmjust not devs!
14:09:11LloreanBecause devs don't read the forums (and aren't really expected to :))
14:09:12markun.. who are the evil rulers in the end :)
14:09:22JdGordonPaulJam: nice cd btw...
14:09:37JdGordonthose icons are screwed tho :D im not getting that
14:09:46LloreanPaulJam: By chance did you keep track of which icon numbers go to what, I notice that you used numbers papers initially.
14:09:59markunsometimes I'm anoyed by people thinking in devs and non-devs, but maybe it makes things a lot easier
14:10:23LloreanJdGordon: It happens in the H300 sim, but not in the menus
14:10:44Mmmmthe problem is is that not many devs are really interested in recording features and so arent really interested in testing patches (Petur is a very busy man :))
14:10:52Lloreanmarkun: Well "devs" are traditionally the people who care about "doing it right" while non-devs are the people who care about "it works for me" :)
14:12:11MmmmI care about doing it's just that I did it wrong!
14:12:21pixelmaMmmm: I would have tested on my Ondio if asked here or in the dev-ml (I've seen that thread in the forum too if you do remember but didn't know about commit plans)
14:12:35LloreanMmmm: I didn't say you did it wrong
14:12:41PaulJamLlorean: the list can be found in apps/gui/icon.h
14:12:58LloreanMmmm: I meant that your testers mostly cared that it worked for them, rather than how it was done in the code.
14:13:12LloreanPaulJam: Yeah, I just discovered that. Why the #s then?
14:13:27amiconnMmmm: There were multiple problems, like not being able to set anything but the day value on Ondio
14:13:30markunffmpeg is having some problems right now with different opinions on what should be committed (and what not)
14:13:39MmmmPixelma: yeah, I remember now...I'll at least attempt to ask for a few days in the future just in case there is someone like yourself about :)
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14:14:26Mmmmamiconn: really? that's strange...I tested the recorder, iaudio, irivers and ipods...
14:14:26PaulJamLlorean: i used the numbers, and lader saw where i could find the list.
14:14:32LloreanPaulJam: Ah, okay.
14:14:33amiconnTo rephrase, I am not against a recording timer at all, just this thing had multiple problems which aren't easily fixable and it was huge for what it does
14:14:34Mmmmmust be a keymap thing!
14:15:04dionoeamarkun: "problems" is kind of an understatement :) Baptiste even considered forking the project
14:15:06LloreanJdGordon: Is the last themable icon a placeholder or is it actually displayed somewhere?
14:15:10Mmmmyeah, I was surprised at the size.... Twas a lot bigger than I thought
14:15:17JdGordonLlorean: placeholder
14:15:22LloreanJdGordon: Okay, just making sure.
14:15:35markundionoea: you never know how serious people really are
14:16:06amiconnMmmm: Press PLAY to accept... but there is no separate PLAY on Ondio
14:16:15*JdGordon isnt getting the icon wierdness PaulJam is getting
14:16:16*markun is wondering about amiconn's recurring plans on leaving rockbox for example..
14:16:46amiconnOn Ondio we need to use Mode to accept in such a screen, if we need left/right for navigation
14:16:53LloreanJdGordon: Did you use his iconset, in an h300 sim, and browse to where you can see an actual music file?
14:17:03JdGordonyes yes yes
14:17:09LloreanIt happens for me just fine.
14:17:12Mmmmamiconn: I admit, I missed out the Ondio - sorry, bit of an oversight there...anyway, to slim it down will need a completely different approach I think
14:17:42markunMmmm: what was the reason it became so big?
14:17:47JdGordonLlorean: you getting it also? PaulJam, do an svn up... i think you may have missed one
14:18:21LloreanJdGordon: Yeah, I'm definitely getting it with the most recent revision.
14:18:27Mmmmmarkun: god knows... the set_multi_int function was the biggest I think
14:18:51LloreanAll I did was compile an h300s, copy over his icons, launch the sim, load the icons, realize I had no files, close the sim, copy over some songs to the root of the sim, run the sim again, browse to the root, and see the weird icons.
14:19:23amiconnThere were other problems with that multi-int screen... like large parts being off screen for users with a large font and small display (also hits e.g. on the iriver remotes), or off screen at all (player)
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14:20:13amiconnThe latter isn't such a big problem as it currently has no use for such screen, and if it will, then it can get its own minimal implementation
14:20:36Mmmmamiconn: I suppose a solution to that would be to use long as there arent massed of integers
14:20:47amiconnThen the non-working proportional fonts... I almost exclusively use proportional fonts as they are much nicer to look at
14:21:04amiconnThat's no solution
14:21:20MmmmYes..that is a problem not so easy to fix....I had completely overlooked that as I have never even used one
14:21:25amiconnWe need to make all screens user font aware instead of introducing more fixed-font dependencies
14:21:59Mmmmso some sort of line wrap
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14:25:10MmmmI think a screen for this would be necessary as having such a large range of times would mean some hefty scrolling without splitting into days/hrs/mins
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14:27:01JdGordonPaulJam: Llorean: all fixed
14:27:17PaulJamnice, thanks
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14:31:07JdGordonok, can anyone who doesnt mind playing in the wiki make CustonIcons nice for themers please?
14:31:11*JdGordon going to watch tv
14:33:32PaulJamhmm, for me the icons are still broken in the sim JdGordon
14:33:41JdGordonno they arnt!
14:33:44JdGordonyour imagning it
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14:34:16JdGordonim using the .cfg from the zip (and the bmps and .icons) and it works fine
14:34:19JdGordonsvn up
14:34:56c0uttado we have any original ajbr owners online?
14:35:08Bagder"original" ?
14:35:19Bagderas in v1 you mean?
14:35:41c0uttaBagder: v1 - correct.
14:35:45JdGordonbarrywardell_: you around?
14:35:58JdGordonor dan_a
14:36:01BagderI own a recorder v1, haven't used it in a long while though
14:36:01PaulJami did a svn up before compiling (it updated icon.c and filetypes.c)
14:36:04*Mmmm has to go and get on with earning a crust......bye...
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14:36:33JdGordonPaulJam: are you trying to load it with a remote viewers?
14:36:34c0uttaBagder: do you remember how to reset the config block on startup?
14:36:51Bagderno, I don't think I've ever done that...
14:37:47c0uttai just changed the setting to show MBR on startup and now I get I04:IllInstr
14:37:55PaulJamJdGordon: no, there is no remote viewers icons specified in the config (if that's what you meant)
14:38:10JdGordonthat is :) ok then we have the same setup going
14:38:21JdGordonstill the same as the dump from before?
14:38:54JdGordonmake clean && make ?
14:39:13PaulJamno make clean, i'll try that
14:41:13elinenbe_JdGordon: nice work on the patch... I like it. a lot.
14:41:47PaulJamJdGordon: have you tried if you can reproduce if you reset settings and restart the sim before loading the icons?
14:41:52elinenbe_JdGordon: Now all we need is animated bmps for icons :-)
14:43:11JdGordonPaulJam: just did that and works ok
14:43:23JdGordonelinenbe_: animaed gifs .. :)
14:44:05PaulJamJdGordon: make clean didn't help
14:45:03elinenbe_JdGordon: well, yes... animated gifs would be nice, but bmps are already supported by rockbox, and I figured we could do different state bmps like we have in the WPS screens... animated gifs may add unnecessary overhead
14:45:11pixelmaanimated gifs to get it as nice as flashed html sites? ... ...
14:45:58moosJdGordon: time to update: , I didn't made it myself cause better to let's the author
14:46:17mooscool enhancement
14:46:25JdGordonbah :p
14:47:15PaulJamJdGordon: wich filetypes do you have, for me only the first 6 icons of the viewers icon are broken, the other work.
14:48:26JdGordontxt works fine
14:48:46JdGordonthats in the top 6..
14:50:31*JdGordon hopes that was the last commit for icons tonight
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14:52:26elinenbe_JdGordon: where do you live?
14:52:38JdGordonBagder: I tihnk i asked you before, but cant remember the answer... do you have any ideas where to start playing to try to read the sd card on the sansa?
14:52:42JdGordonelinenbe_: australia
14:52:57BagderJdGordon: only the sd document mrh wrote
14:53:30JdGordonany chance you can give him a buzz and see if he can come up wit some more magic?
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14:54:38elinenbe_JdGordon: I don't know if you follow cycling, but Stuart O'Grady won Paris-Roubaix yesterday
14:55:53elinenbe_eh... he's an Aussie cyclist.
14:56:27amiconnc0utta: With a half-recent recorder build you won't need a special config block reset.
14:56:31elinenbe_if you don't follow the sport, you probably haven't heard of him.
14:56:47amiconnWe switched to file-based config quite a while ago
14:57:29elinenbe_amiconn: what are you currently working on? You usually have something exciting in the plans...
14:58:49c0uttaamiconn: i'm using the latest build and i still get the i04:illinstr
14:59:03pearldiver2007-03-16: Add customizable icons
14:59:06pearldiverthe date?
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15:00:55JdGordonisnt it march?
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15:01:26Bagdermaybe that's a time zone thing :-P
15:01:34mooshaha :D
15:04:13amiconnc0utta: Oh, then it happens while/after loading the config
15:04:49amiconnJust connect usb, and delete /.rockbox/config.cfg
15:05:15amiconnIdeally copy it before for analysis
15:05:33c0uttaamiconn: i thought it read the config from the block before config.cfg
15:08:09c0uttaremoving config.cfg made no difference
15:08:35 Quit Entasis (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
15:10:39pearldiverJdGordon i think aliask's and eli's icons could be moved to wiki?
15:11:18JdGordonwell.. yes and no... i cant remeber which... but at least one was wrong
15:11:26JdGordonit had the viewers bmp starting at the wrong place
15:11:35***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
15:11:41linuxstb_pearldiver: Maybe the authors (i.e. copyright holders) of the icons should add them to the wiki...
15:17:42amiconnc0utta: The config block is no longer used with a current build.
15:19:56c0uttaamiconn: ah, i am way behind the times. so removing config.cfg should have cleared my settings?
15:20:29PaulJamJdGordon: don't know if this helps, but if i load my viewers icons for the remote too, then the icons show up right on the main screen (but on the remote they are broken (as expexted))
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15:39:07cropJdGordon: have you seen my msgs from today, 11:47 (irc log time)?
15:40:02*crop suggests to introduce the new time zone: ILT (for irc log time)
15:40:46JdGordoncrop: no
15:40:49*JdGordon checks log
15:41:40JdGordonah yes, i had seen them
15:42:24cropAre they correct/sensible?
15:44:48JdGordonyeah, NOICON only needs to be defined oncce... and its definatly meant to me bmp
15:46:51JdGordonanyone know how to use the sansa emulator?
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15:49:19spiorfcan custom icons be included in themes now?
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15:52:41cropJdGordon: and one more question: why isn't icon_file and viewers_icon_file #ifdef'd in settings.h?
15:53:31cropJdGordon: and in setting_list they are nested #ifdef'd
15:53:33PaulJamJdGordon: maybe it would be a good idea to include the default main icons in the zip too, and a configfile that loads the default icons. or mybe make it like with the wps, where you have a dummy file that loads the default.
15:54:20cropJdGordon: yes, settings.h:711
15:55:09JdGordonah, for lcd_bitmap... good point
15:55:23JdGordonPaulJam: default main icons? they are built in...
15:55:48cropJdGordon: and settings_list.c:1165. The nested #ifdef's are wrong IMHO
15:56:10cropJdGordon: I mean they should be independent
15:56:10JdGordonyour mean
15:57:01cropJdGordon: I mean :-)
15:57:06PaulJamJdGordon: yes, but there is afaik no way to revert to the default icons without clearing the settings or editing the config.cfg .
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15:59:36JdGordonPaulJam: your right that you cant actually go back to the default except by clearnig settings..
15:59:48JdGordonwould setting iconset: - be good enough?
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16:02:56cropBagder: when may the copyright statement in a file be changed? I.e. you have a copyrighted file and edit it massively. Can you then change the CR statement?
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16:07:17JdGordonPaulJam: reset_icons.cfg ?
16:07:53 Quit jmspeex (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
16:11:41JdGordonPaulJam: last chance...
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16:13:08JdGordonPaulJam: ! i saw the bug you were complaining of!
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16:13:18amiconnJdGordon: For wps there's the "magic" name rockbox_default.wps
16:13:37JdGordonright, but we dont use a seperate file for icon loading...
16:13:41amiconnLoading that doesn't actualy load it, but revert to the builtin default
16:13:41 Part ctaf
16:13:48JdGordonrockbox_default_icons or reset_icons.cfg ?
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16:19:42AceNikid like to ask is the scrolling on h10 good or addig the smooth scroll path makes a difference
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16:22:27*JdGordon doesnt like that the filetype icons are handled in 3 different modules/files
16:22:35JdGordontree.c gui/icon.c and filetypes.c
16:23:44pondlifeJdGordon: Can they be all moved to filetypes.c some how?
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16:24:35JdGordonnot really :(
16:26:28AceNikuys what if the author of a theme does not reply to the permission to modify his theme, can i then just modify it & upload it
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16:28:54JdGordonthis isnt backwards is it? icon_buffer[IMG_BUFSIZE][NB_SCREENS]
16:29:05*JdGordon always gets confsed with 2d arrays
16:29:33pondlifePah, only 2D!
16:29:42amiconnIt is backwards...
16:30:20JdGordonthat would explain the damn bug then
16:30:40*JdGordon embarresed
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16:33:41JdGordonPaulJam_: fixed!
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16:34:40*JdGordon gets his #1 commiter spot back on :D
16:34:58JdGordonjust incase you all thought all these "mistakes" were me being stupid :p
16:35:26pondlifeThe thought never crossed my mind
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16:37:26*JdGordon slaps aliask around with the .cfg file he forgot to upload!
16:37:52JdGordonaliask: and just to be difficult.. you need to replace the 'm's with '*' in the icons file
16:39:18aliaskYesss massterrr
16:39:32aliaskAnd I was making the screenshot at the time :)
16:39:48AceNikim syncing th new volume limiter patch , vlimit : can someone please sync this to the svn , its really greart & works perfect
16:40:51PaulJam__JdGordon: it is fixed, thank you.
16:41:45AceNikcan anyone pelase add this patch
16:41:56PaulJam__..but something seems to be still wrong, the folders have the wrong icon now.
16:43:32JdGordonno they dont!
16:44:03JdGordonhmm... ok, so they do :p
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16:44:15*JdGordon should stop coding for tonight
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16:44:47AceNikJdGordon so that was ur last change for today rite
16:45:09JdGordonno, that was my first for today...
16:45:19JdGordon[00:45:09] here :D
16:45:48AceNik JdGordon: well i was thinkin of compiling a build for myself now , any major chanes that you plan to make sir
16:46:11aliaskJdGordon: What size icons did you want for sansa/h300?
16:46:30pondlife16x16 look good on H300
16:46:36JdGordon16x16 looks good on them, but i dont have a decent wps for that size font :p
16:47:39cropJdGordon: I'm happy now :-)
16:47:46JdGordonsweet :)
16:47:48aliaskSo should I bother making another icon set?
16:50:58amiconnJdGordon: Looks like the crash on archos c0utta is experiencing *might* be related to the icon stuff...
16:51:21 Quit PaulJam_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
16:51:27JdGordonho hum :( whats the problem?
16:51:49amiconnIllInstr at 00000000 i.e. NULL pointer access somewhere
16:52:05pondlifeJdGordon: 8th time's the charm ;p
16:53:01amiconnLatest daily is fine, current build crashes afaiu
16:53:13pondlifeSorry Jd, couldn't resist a cheap gag
16:53:20JdGordonthats ok....
16:53:20aliaskAceNik: Glad you like my patch :)
16:53:35pondlifeIt'll be worth it in the end, y'know.
16:53:51JdGordonI was going to put a nice long complaint in that commit... but thouht better not
16:53:53*pixelma going to test an Ondio svn build...
16:54:47JdGordonamiconn: does the ondio have display->bitmap_part ?
16:54:59JdGordonthats the only place where NULL could be set to a fnction...
16:56:02JdGordonhmm... :'( doesnt look like it...
16:56:37amiconnOh, then that's it
16:56:53amiconnBut it could and should have it; looks like an oversight in screen_access.c
16:57:57JdGordonyay.. so someone else can fix it so i dont look any worse than i already do :p
16:58:30pixelmashould I bother waiting for the end of the build round (for warnings/errors) or is it worth to test at all?
16:58:30JdGordonyep, thats the bug
16:58:44JdGordonpixelma: dont bother at all....
16:58:56JdGordonamiconn: can you fix it in screen_access,.c?
16:59:27 Quit PaulJam__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:00:02amiconnJdGordon: I'll do if nobody beats me to it, but can't do so right now
17:00:56JdGordongreat, then im going to bed
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17:11:40***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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17:26:43spiorfwhere i have to define directories icons?
17:27:10spiorfall other icons are ok
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17:34:02spiorflol 'ive just seen the commit "make the folder icons play nice....."
17:34:59AceNikcan anyone help me add this line in the viewers config file cause i think the whole format has changed sok,rocks/sokoban, 00 48 7E 7E 48 00
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17:36:10AceNiksok,rocks/sokoban, 00 48 7E 7E 48 00 will adding it like this work or do i need to change something
17:36:58PaulJamAceNik: i think you have to replace the " 00 48 7E 7E 48 00" by the iconnumber
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17:37:24AceNikwhere do i find the icon number for sokoban now
17:39:04PaulJamyou propably have to add the icon to the viewers.bmp and viewers_remote.bmp. the number is the position of the icon in this file starting with 0
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17:40:33AceNikPaulJam: so will it work if i replace it with the same icon as suoku , after all sudoku is also a pluin rite
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17:41:16PaulJam_should work
17:41:33AceNikPaulJam: k shall try it now
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17:54:20RFAhello i have some problems with Rockbox ipodpatcher installation
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17:56:49bluebrotherRFA: care to tell some details?
17:57:12RFAipodpatcher cant find my ipod
17:59:03bluebrotherwhat OS are you using? Windows?
17:59:42bluebrotherI assume you are root?
18:00:10 Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@
18:00:24bluebrotheris the ipod mounted?
18:00:32bluebrotheror, can you access the ipod otherwise?
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18:01:55RFAi yes i can
18:03:21linuxstb_RFA: Have you done anything to your ipod? e.g. repartitioned it?
18:03:28 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
18:03:31dionoeadoes fdisk -l /dev/sda (or sdb or whatever show the 2 partitions?)
18:03:31bluebrotherhmm. Do you know the device of your ipod?
18:04:16RFAyes it fdisk show me
18:04:30linuxstbRFA: That's likely to be the problem. One of the checks ipodpatcher does (it errs on the side of caution) is to check for magic strings in original ipod partition tables. If you've repartitioned, you may have removed that magic.
18:05:19RFAthis is the message
18:05:19RFAdebian:/home# ./ipodpatcher
18:05:19RFAipodpatcher v0.9 with v1.0 bootloaders - (C) Dave Chapman 2006-2007
18:05:19DBUGEnqueued KICK RFA
18:05:19RFAThis is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO
18:05:20***Alert Mode level 1
18:05:20RFA[INFO] Scanning disk devices...
18:05:22RFA[ERR] No ipods found, aborting
18:05:24RFA[ERR] Please connect your ipod and ensure it is in disk mode
18:05:26RFA[ERR] Please refer to the Rockbox manual if you continue to have problems.
18:05:28RFAPress ENTER to exit ipodpatcher :
18:05:51linuxstbRFA: There was no need for that...
18:06:13RFAsorry linuxstb
18:06:20dionoeacan't you force the device command line ?
18:06:54RFAcan you explain
18:06:58linuxstbYou can specify a device, but it still does the same checks.
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18:07:42bluebrotherif you have the partition marked empty you can simply dd the apple update image to that partition
18:07:43linuxstbRFA: I'll build you an ipodpatcher without that check. Are you on 32-bit Linux?
18:08:06linuxstbbluebrother: That's not the issue - it's magic in the paritition table itself (i.e. the MBR - sector 0).
18:08:33linuxstbI'm assuming of course that the ipod is currently working - i.e. the Apple firmware boots?
18:09:06bluebrotheroh, there is some more magic too?
18:09:09RFAno sorry its broken by the last try on saturday
18:09:10bluebrothernice to know ;-)
18:09:20linuxstbbluebrother: ipods have magic everywhere....
18:09:43linuxstbRFA: In which case ignore what I've said. You need to make your ipod boot the Apple firmware first - ipodpatcher requires a working ipod.
18:10:28RFAok and this only works on windows or mac right
18:10:32linuxstbThere are some (very concise) instructions here -
18:10:52linuxstbThe page I linked you to is for Linux. On windows and Mac, just run itunes.
18:12:22linuxstbColdSphinX^: I'm being asked to register...
18:12:22RFAok i try
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18:13:18ColdSphinX^ok, sorry
18:14:07ColdSphinX^it's just a news about the next ipod gen
18:14:21bluebrotherhmm. No greyscale icons yet :(
18:14:55linuxstbColdSphinX^: news or rumour? There's been talk of new ipods for over a year...
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18:15:22***Alert Mode OFF
18:15:26ColdSphinX^will see
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18:16:44bluebrotherColdSphinX^: Sorry, the page you are trying to open is available only for our paid subscribers.
18:19:45ColdSphinX^oh, hmm, I could read it. hmm, perhaps an write error by me but I saw that this channe lisn't the right place.
18:20:45RFAlinuxstd i run the firmware patch but its stops with hieroglyphs
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18:23:32linuxstbRFA: What do you mean by "run the firmware patch" ? What commands did you type?
18:23:33 Quit saratoga (Client Quit)
18:25:04RFAdd if=iPod_14.1.3.1.ipsw of=/dev/sdb1
18:25:22linuxstbYou need to do "unzip iPod_14.1.3.1.ipsw" first
18:25:42linuxstbThat will give you a Firmware-X.Y.Z (I don't know the numbers) file. You then dd that Firmware-X.Y.Z file to /dev/sdb1
18:26:24 Join juxtap [0] (
18:27:47RFAipod reboot works
18:28:07linuxstbSo the Apple firmware is working again?
18:28:28linuxstbNow see if ipodpatcher recognises it. You may still get the same problem as before...
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18:29:07RFAnow it runs
18:29:32linuxstbYou're welcome.
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18:50:23SliMMyey, colour icons :)
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18:51:02SliMMwhere can i download a build with these icons?
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18:51:44Juice^is there a screenshot?
18:52:34ColdSphinX^is comitted to the official builds or what do you mean?
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18:53:49Juice^i just saw a screenshot. sweet... are they commited to the official builds?
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18:54:42Juice^will update my sansa now :)
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18:55:06ColdSphinX^and there
18:55:06ColdSphinX^you can find some sets
18:55:25SliMMsome as in one :)
18:55:41SliMMwhere is the bleeding edge build?
18:55:43bushblowsI have the .rockbox folder in the root directory of my ipod and rockbox @ (hd0,1) /.rockbox/rockbox.ipod in the ipodloader.conf and when I select rockbox it fails
18:55:48bushblowsany ideas why?
18:56:02SliMMbecause the daily build doesn't include icons i think
18:56:09AceNikguys a problem with the icons , on a black backdrop they not visible , secondly they use to take the color of the foreground color earlier now they dont , probbly because they loaded from a .rmp now , but there has to be a fix for this
18:56:42linuxstbbushblows: Obvious question - do you have a rockbox.ipod file inside the .rockbox folder on your ipod?
18:57:03ColdSphinX^at the tracker there is an remake of the current default icons in white color and a colorised set in the defaultsize by me
18:57:06SliMMlinuxstb: /.rockbox/rockbox.ipod
18:57:14bushblowsya looking at it now
18:57:27linuxstbSliMM: ?
18:57:45SliMMhe said he has the rockbox.ipod in the .rockbox folder :)
18:57:48AceNikColdSphinX^: k will check it out , i think the colorised set is remarkable
18:58:06linuxstbSliMM: No he didn't.
18:58:24SliMMquote: "I have the .rockbox folder in the root directory of my ipod and rockbox @ (hd0,1) /.rockbox/rockbox.ipod in the ipodloader.conf and when I select rockbox it fails"
18:58:45bushblowsya SliMM i am sorry but I did leave that out of my comment
18:59:23SliMMbushblows: what comment? :-s
18:59:26ColdSphinX^AceNik i know but i hadn't had much ideas for the small display of my iax5
18:59:45bushblowsmy first comment, the comment you quoted, it isnt important though, nm
19:00:08SliMMlinuxstb: do i use the current build for iconsets?
19:00:19AceNikColdSphinX^:will be abck in a few minutes , want to know how to use tango , c ya in 10mins
19:00:27linuxstbSliMM: I guess so. I don't understand the new icons though.
19:01:05Juice^My sansa wont load the new theme with icons.. nothing happends when i load the theme
19:01:36markunJuice^: which new theme?
19:02:06Juice^markun: not new.. but they named a theme "rockbox_default_icons"
19:02:16Juice^and one "rockbox_default"
19:03:13PaulJamit just loads the defailt balck icons, as the name implies
19:03:52Juice^yeah ..
19:03:53PaulJamyou need to download or ceate additional iconsets yourself
19:03:58Juice^ok ok
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19:11:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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19:22:54AceNikuys there is a desperate need to have the ability to set different menu font , n wps font
19:23:14nlsthere is?
19:23:22AceNiksince custom icons are based on particular fonts , & certain wps's will not support the same font
19:24:59AceNik nls: ?
19:25:05SliMMcustom icons aren't based on particular fonts
19:25:26nlsAceNik: My point was that the need can hardly be "desperate"
19:25:33AceNikSliMM: tango font used with jack font
19:25:52AceNiknls: ok but i just like the new feature so
19:26:01SliMMtango icons work great with arial too
19:26:32nlsand I think the idea is for wps and icons to be part of a theme that will work nicely with the same font in menuaes and wps
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19:39:49AceNikblubrother you there
19:40:32Hammer89I'm having a hard time figuring out what to do with the .cfg file on this page: Do I just add the lines of text to an existing theme .cfg file?
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19:41:12AceNikHammer89:ya the.icon, .viewer text
19:41:15bluebrotheryou can also run that file separately
19:41:26bluebrotherit only sets the values that are present in the files
19:41:45AceNikbluebrother: what do you mean by whitespace changes
19:41:46bluebrotherbut these lines can also be present in any other configuration file, most likely a theme file
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19:42:09Hammer89I moved the .bmp and .icons file to the folder .rockbox/icons... and ran that .cfg file... but the icons still aren't appearing
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19:42:39AceNikHammer89: no need for .icons file to be added , only add the .bmp's
19:42:56AceNikHammer89: add the .icon, .viewers code to the .cfg file
19:43:04Hammer89oh... okay
19:43:43PaulJamAceNik: the .icons file is needed to assign the icons to filetypes
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19:44:20AceNik] PaulJam: where do u place the file ? , i tried it my way , everythin works fine
19:45:00PaulJamthe .icons file goes to the same folder like the .bmp files
19:45:16Hammer89that's what I did... but it didn't work
19:45:28AceNikoh sorry yes i placed bboth the files in that folder
19:45:45AceNikHammer89: add .icons & .bmp to the foldere sorry
19:45:58AceNikHammer89: its just that both showed pictures so i thought
19:46:04Hammer89and what about the .cfg file?
19:46:50AceNikHammer89: here c how to add the last 2 lines in a .cfg file
19:47:08Hammer89I've done that...
19:47:25pixelmahmm... trying to figure the customisable icons out - could someone tell me what the cursor icon is used for (usually I use the line selector)?
19:53:47 Quit Mmmm ()
19:55:57SliMMpixelma: it is used for those that don't use the line selector :)
19:56:14 Quit ozgur ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
19:57:07pixelmathanks... so with my line selector setting it won't be used at all?
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20:00:43PaulJamis anyone else having the problem, that the icon for fm-presets is wrong when using custon icons?
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20:15:19pondlifePaulJam: Looks like an EQ preset icon here.
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20:20:12PaulJamfor me it shows the icon_questionmark
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20:25:00Lars_Gdamn rockbox
20:25:22Lars_Git's so good I'm thinking on changing my iPod's setup mode in amarok from ipod to generic player so I work with rockbox's file schema
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20:35:40Learapps/plugins/bitmaps/viewer_defaults/viewers.6x8x2.bmp seems to be missing. Or is it just me (and the Web interface)? :)
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20:36:21Lars_GHey all
20:36:48Lars_Gquestion, are there any docs in wiki about the log AND database statistics log? or none and I should read the source?
20:37:02Lars_GI want to code an amarok plugin to integrate these logs into amarok's statistics
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20:42:08nlsLear: I have it in my checkout...
20:42:23LearThat's weird...
20:42:39nlsno wait, I don't ;-)
20:43:21nlsI guess someone forgott ot svn add something
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20:46:03pixelmaI believe there is no greyscale iconset...
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20:54:14LearHm, seems like I can shave ~400 bytes from gui/icon.c (on ColdFire).
20:56:24SliMMdamn you're right
20:56:33SliMMthe icons are font-dependent
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21:02:39spiorfanyone knows if elisherer's theme can not be modified?
21:02:39 Join _pill [0] (
21:02:56spiorfi modified it and would like to add to the icons page
21:07:09amiconnLear: 400bytes?
21:07:31CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
21:07:31*amiconn wonders which coldfire that is, and whether the saving is display depth dependent
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21:08:30LearDepends on wether there is a remote, but not otherwise, I think. And using gcc 4.0.4 with non-standard optimizations, so it is not an exact figure. :)
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21:09:17amiconn404 is a strange version number... </ot>
21:10:00PaulJamdoes the playlist viewer not support unicode?
21:11:03LearShould do UTF-8, but maybe not codepage stuff...
21:11:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:12:31amiconnFilenames are always utf-8 internally anyway
21:13:08amiconnPaulJam: Are you trying this on a windows simulator?
21:13:13 Quit nls (Remote closed the connection)
21:13:41PaulJamyes. just saw that it is the same in the filebrowser
21:15:35amiconnYes, the windows sim doesn't support unicode filenames. No easy way to work around that afaik
21:16:03PaulJamok, thanks for the info.
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21:18:33kkurbjunmarkun, there's a problem with usb mode on the gigabeat X's now?
21:18:49PaulJamdoes anyone know where the reverse cursor icon is used in rockbox?
21:19:10kkurbjundo you know someone I can work with to fix the bugs that are now occurring?
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21:20:45kkurbjunmarkun, let me know. I will be available in another 4 hours if you are still around then.
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21:21:38kkurbjunas a note, I think it has to do with the change I made to gpg12. nothing else should have changed the functionality
21:21:39cronic`dai need german support...
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21:24:57cronic`dahmm anyone here?
21:25:03xwaydoublecode12me here
21:25:04BiptoNlinuxstb: have you looked at my post about recording yet? I thought i would get some more info to ya in case you wanted to know more
21:25:14cronic`daehm... sry my english is bad :P
21:25:44amiconnHmm, seems like I found the solution how to support unicode in the win32 sim
21:25:46cronic`daalso... when i play a song from a album on my ipod 5g (video) i will see the album picture..
21:26:11amiconnCan we safely assume that nobody wants to build / run the win32 sim on win 95?
21:26:18*amiconn guesses we can
21:26:24cronic`dawhat is the name of the album picutre? how i must rename it
21:26:44LearCan probably check via ifdef, if we want to allow building for it.
21:26:45xwaydoublecode12read the manual as cool people say
21:27:03roolkucronic`da: there are serveral options - check the wiki
21:27:24roolkuxwaydoublecode12: it is not in the manual (not an official feature)
21:27:25cronic`dai always check it ;)
21:27:35cronic`dabut i dont find the right topic...
21:27:54xwaydoublecode12sorry... wiki ^)
21:27:54peturamiconn: as far as I'm concerned, we can also ditch win98
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21:28:39amiconnpetur: It's just that if we compile an unicode version, it will only run on NT based windows and winme, plus win98 if unicode support is installed
21:29:16amiconnWhat we need is just two #defines, plus some filename translation between utf-8 and ucs2 in io.c
21:29:23peturamiconn: I know, and for win95 there's some workaround but imho it's not worth it
21:29:29cronic`daalso the name of the picture must be cover.bmp ?
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21:30:10xwaydoublecode12i have a question.... why rb games have such poor graphics? is this because of the weak hardware of the player or nobody wants/can/have free time to improve them?
21:30:23roolkucronic`da: check the link you were given. as I said there are several versions
21:30:30amiconnHmm, something isn't right yet
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21:31:02pixelmaLear: nice green line in the delta table :)
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21:32:17cronic`dahmm ok its not easy xD
21:32:43xwaydoublecode12i have a question.... why rb games have such poor graphics? is this because of the weak hardware of the player or nobody wants/can/have free time to improve them? i can help with it, but i dont know if somebody will use my work
21:32:58Galoisyou mean like doom?
21:33:08xwaydoublecode12no ^) doom rockz
21:33:27xwaydoublecode12they look boring
21:33:35Galoisprobably lack of improvement, but I think doom is the upper limit of the hardware
21:33:57pixelmaspider solitaire isn't even part of official rockbox yet
21:34:04xwaydoublecode12i think it has not reach the limit yet
21:34:15xwaydoublecode12HA they ARE
21:34:27xwaydoublecode12they are in the daily builds
21:34:40xwaydoublecode12am i wrong
21:35:00pixelma"plain" solitaire is part - but not spider
21:36:06xwaydoublecode12so... if ill draw some kind of the concept... will it be useful?
21:36:07amiconnInteresting coincidence that only coldfire targets have lcd remotes - and all of them do...
21:36:34pixelmayou could check the patch tracker and ask the author of the plugin how you could improve the graphics...
21:37:16pixelma(for spider solitaire I mean)
21:38:19xwaydoublecode12thanks for idea ^) i am a bit slow... head
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21:45:27SliMMsince i have an obssesion with semi-transparency, can i make alpha-blending icons?
21:45:40SliMMas in edit the icon.c :)
21:46:50dionoeawon't that slow list scrolling ?
21:47:44SliMMit certanly will :)
21:48:41amiconnDo whatever you want in your plugin, but true alpha is a big no-no in the core unless someone comes up with some really clever code
21:49:19SliMMhey, i didn't say that i want to make smth to be included in the svn
21:49:37amiconnAnd with clever code I don't mean stuff that slows down text drawing 10 times or more. Even without alpha the text drawing isn't exactly fast on 16 bit targets
21:52:04 Quit xwaydoublecode12 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
21:52:08SliMMamiconn: can i post an iconset with several backgrounds, beside the magenta (transparent) one, fore better looking icons?
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21:58:15SliMMok, i'll do that :P
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22:30:33*XavierGr becomes silly and builds his own tower of rockbox based on the idea of the previous Rockbox Devcon!
22:31:06Bagderthat's not silly, that's very important research! ;-P
22:31:25XavierGrBagder: picture incoming :P
22:32:08amiconnHmm, io.c starts looking like a real mess, but I have at least the simulated root working with unicode on win32 :)
22:32:46*amiconn wonders whether _wopendir exists on linux
22:33:03amiconn(and likewise, _wopen, _wreaddir etc)
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22:34:56Bagderwhat's the purpose of it? provide wide characters directly instead of "encoded"?
22:35:09XavierGrheh I like it! :D
22:35:28amiconnYes, _wopendir & friends work on wchar_t "strings"
22:35:37XavierGrstrange the link doesn't have the pic?
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22:36:03amiconnIf that would be available on linux, it would save a lot of ifdefs
22:36:29BagderI don't think it is
22:37:57XavierGrrisky tower though, the gigabeat is very close to collapse, and there are no rubber bumpers for it like the archos
22:38:20toffe82XavierGr: I will sell you a new one if you break it ;)
22:38:58XavierGrheh :)
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22:41:26roolkutoffe82: you wouldn't have a spare lcd display for a gigabeat, would you?
22:42:17pixelmaXavierGr: hope you didn't install a recent svn build for that thing in the lower middle :/
22:43:20XavierGrpixelma: well I don't use the ondio too much, so no it has on old build, why is the new builds broken?
22:45:06pixelmait's broken since JdGordon's icon commit - check today's log at around 17:00
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22:46:35XavierGrwell the new icons look sweet on the wiki
22:46:47toffe82roolku: for a F or X ?
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22:46:54XavierGrso I am going to update all my other targets
22:47:18roolkutoffe82: for an F (unless they are pincompatible)
22:47:32toffe82there are not
22:48:12roolkugot a player with a broken display here :(
22:48:36toffe82I might have a good one ( I know that I have one with a dead pixel and another one with some scratch) but I should have a good one
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22:49:07toffe82you need the case also ?
22:49:46roolkutoffe82: not really
22:50:11roolkutoffe82: I would even take a dead pixel one
22:50:53roolkutoffe82: maybe we should take this to pm, as it is not of general interest
22:54:21ashesplaying '-q 10' ogg's is pretty heavy on my iriver
22:55:31SliMMwhat is the username for the twiki?
22:56:02*preglow doesn't really see the point with menu entry icons
22:56:56 Quit chelli ("Client exiting")
22:57:45peturSliMM: you need to register with your real name first and then come here and ask for write access
22:58:20SliMMyes, i want to upload an icon set, i have already registered, but what's the username?
22:58:45peturno, what's *your* username
22:59:35XavierGrwow eli's icons are quite cool
22:59:51SliMMyes, what's *my* username?
22:59:54peturSliMM: are you StefanSaftescu ?
23:00:04peturone sec
23:01:08peturSliMM: done
23:02:05SliMMwhat is my username now? :)
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23:06:54 Quit davina ("byeeeeee!")
23:08:34amiconnThis will be macro heavy, but it works :D
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23:11:46***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:15:07 Quit Lear ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox]")
23:16:56SliMMso how do i edit the wiki?
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23:19:45peturSliMM: press the edit button?
23:20:09SliMMwhat about the iconset?
23:20:30peturwhat about it?
23:22:59peturSliMM: check how the current page is written and learn
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23:30:00riftall the patch on aren't include on the svn
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23:31:33peturrift: no, they aren't
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23:37:39peturhmmm those silk icons look nice, bit big for my h300 though
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23:41:55 Quit Rob222241 ()
23:41:58riftwhen i make the svn i have the same error :
23:42:07 Join Rob2222 [0] (
23:42:37Bagderis that a clean svn checkout?
23:43:10peturwrong gcc version?
23:43:23riftgcc 4.1.2
23:43:49Bagderthe path in the pastebin says 4.0.3
23:44:01Bagderand 4.0.3 is what you should use
23:44:04riftwrong past bin
23:44:37linuxstbrift: Your arm-elf-gcc is 4.1.2 ? is your friend
23:44:58 Join Nibbier [0] (
23:45:02peturit isn't mine anymore
23:45:13*linuxstb gives a cookie
23:45:41Bagderpetur: forgot to pat it nicely? ;-)
23:45:45*amiconn gets closer to a fully working unicode-enabled win32 sim
23:46:25peturBagder: nah, something went wrong buidling the arm crosscompiler
23:46:38peturand it takes ages under cygwin :(
23:46:45Bagderindeed it does
23:47:48 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
23:47:52riftwhere install gcc ?
23:47:56 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
23:47:56 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
23:48:10Bagderrift: read/edit the top comments of the script
23:48:25Bagderwell, edit the assignments not the comments :-)
23:49:04bluebrotherpetur, use linux :P
23:50:01peturbluebrother: it's hard to get used to it...
23:50:28bluebrotherI managed it, so it's definitely doable ;-)
23:50:47bluebrotherbut I agree, it's quite different. Might be a strength of linux though.
23:51:18peturwell not for tonight, I'm off
23:51:24 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
23:51:35 Join Lars_G [0] (n=lars@unaffiliated/lars-g/x-000001)
23:51:40Lars_GOh yes I forgot to ask
23:51:42*linuxstb breaks into petur's house and steals his mouse
23:51:53bluebrotherreminds me of this quote ...
23:51:54Lars_Ghow many teenager slaves did you guys get?
23:52:14Lars_GNot bad.
23:52:19Lars_GI hope you use them well
23:52:21bluebrotherpetur, when reading logs: Linux has been pretty secure against hackers for years now. The trouble is that until recently it was just as secure against normal users. −− Andrew Brown, The Guardian, 2007
23:52:32Lars_GSo far, I'm about %99.9999 satisfied with RB
23:52:47bluebrotherwhat's the missing .0001%?
23:53:52Lars_GThe minor stuff, basically battery life on the iPod (can live with it) and better support for complex and broken .m4a based podcasts (Not really needed, i am listening to most of my podcasts in the Palm with Kinoma 4 over wifi)
23:55:23Lars_GBut in general, rockbox makes me die with glee
23:55:34Lars_GI would like a special plugin/program but I might make it myself someday
23:59:01 Quit Nibbier (Remote closed the connection)

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