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| 00:04:19 | | Part TrueJournals |
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| 00:04:28 | | Join Hilikus [0] (n=rockero@bas4-montreal19-1242419325.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:04:38 | Hilikus | hey guys |
| 00:04:59 | Hilikus | how do i know if a patch has been merged with the main trunk? |
| 00:05:40 | | Quit chrisjs169 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:05:51 | | Join Rincewind [0] (i=iAlQDsPs@nat-wh-1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 00:06:00 | Domonoky | it should be closed on the patchtracker with accepted as comment |
| 00:06:12 | | Quit Rincewind^moep (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:06:48 | Hilikus | oh ok, thank you Domonoky |
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| 00:11:37 | chrisjs169 | This isn't real critical, but when charging the Sansa, Rockbox will not shut down when the power button is pressed, and won't display a message. Since I have FS6733 added, I tried from the Power menu, and it said Rockbox: Charging |
| 00:12:06 | chrisjs169 | To help avoiding others, would it be possible to have a notice like that when pressing the power button? |
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| 00:29:14 | a1titude | Does anyone here know if each target had its own sourcecode would it increase effecency of the code and possably improve batterylife |
| 00:29:22 | a1titude | ? If that makes sence? |
| 00:30:16 | Domonoky | that would cause big problems, for no help |
| 00:30:45 | ender` | a1titude: only if everything was hand-optimized in assembly |
| 00:31:02 | ender` | and even then, the differences would be very low |
| 00:31:26 | | Join idnar [0] (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar) |
| 00:31:45 | ender` | nobody's stopping you from trying it of course |
| 00:31:57 | | Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:34:12 | a1titude | ahh, thanks, I'm not a programmer so alot of this is out of my comprehention, and I only have the 80gb ipod that is currently unsuported. I was just reading the 80gb wiki page and it said it would be easyer to program if it was just to support the 1024 clusters, but it got me thinking what the effects are of the battery life of the mp3 players. |
| 00:34:49 | a1titude | with unoptimised code |
| 00:35:07 | Domonoky | the battery is only a problem on pp players (ie ipods,h10, and sansa) |
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| 00:35:48 | a1titude | pp players? |
| 00:35:59 | chrisjs169 | portal player |
| 00:36:06 | Domonoky | portal player, the chip inside those players. |
| 00:36:18 | a1titude | ah thanks |
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| 00:45:13 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 00:46:40 | a1titude | I really want to get rockbox on the 80gb, mainly so I can try out making a theme! :p |
| 00:47:33 | Domonoky | somebody is working on it, but it will take time.. |
| 00:49:44 | | Join Mad-Cow [0] (n=chatzill@bas15-toronto12-1168012430.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:50:14 | Mad-Cow | hi, is anybody online right now? |
| 00:50:44 | a1titude | yeah, I am happy for that, rockbox does seem to be ideal to what I want as a mp3 player and the ipod has great navagation, don't get me wrong, I'm not asking them to hurry up, I'm happy for them to take there time, I'm just kinda exsited. And The theme thing i'm really looking forward to. But yeah, I'm waffeling now. (sorry) |
| 00:50:44 | Domonoky | just count the people.. hundreds .. :-) |
| 00:51:05 | Mad-Cow | ok good |
| 00:51:24 | Mad-Cow | I need some help with some code I modified |
| 00:53:23 | chrisjs169 | this is something random, but what are the odds of forcing a sansa e200 into an e200r by replacing the i2c rom, bootloader, and firmware? |
| 00:53:51 | Domonoky | you mean the other way round ? |
| 00:54:11 | chrisjs169 | Yeah, I guess so |
| 00:54:27 | Domonoky | there were some tests.. |
| 00:54:48 | chrisjs169 | was it any good? |
| 00:54:51 | Domonoky | i think it was possible the wrong way round, but with a near death expirience.. |
| 00:55:01 | Domonoky | of the player of cause .-) |
| 00:55:09 | chrisjs169 | wrong way round? |
| 00:55:24 | Domonoky | an e200 to e200r.. |
| 00:55:30 | chrisjs169 | ah, ok |
| 00:55:37 | Domonoky | then you can run rockbox anymore.. bad :-) |
| 00:55:43 | Domonoky | cant |
| 00:56:01 | chrisjs169 | so it could be done, it would just be REALLY risky? |
| 00:56:31 | Domonoky | no, e200 to e200r doesnt work, because of encyption ? i dont know anymore |
| 00:57:11 | chrisjs169 | ok, I thought that since e200tool forces the new bootloader to be written it could possibly work |
| 00:57:32 | | Quit Rincewind^moep (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:58:08 | | Quit lids (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:58:17 | Domonoky | i dont think it does, and trying is dangerous.. |
| 00:58:49 | | Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay) |
| 00:59:25 | Mad-Cow | so can somebody help me out? |
| 00:59:29 | | Quit a1titude (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:59:48 | chrisjs169 | yeah, after remembering that the partitions are different, and e200tool doesn't work on the r series, I closed e200tool :P |
| 00:59:52 | Domonoky | Mad-Cow: only if you ask a question.. |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:09 | | Quit Gursikh ("Leaving") |
| 01:00:30 | Mad-Cow | I already asked earlier, I just need some help with syntax for some code I modified |
| 01:00:51 | Domonoky | that isnt a question.. |
| 01:01:30 | | Join lids [0] (i=lds@gateway/tor/x-7e9676ef9886b1de) |
| 01:01:39 | Mad-Cow | does that really matter? |
| 01:01:44 | Mad-Cow | it still gets the point across |
| 01:02:22 | Domonoky | but i still dont know whats wrong.. how should i answe such a question ? |
| 01:02:49 | Mad-Cow | well you never told me you could help |
| 01:03:03 | Domonoky | dont ask to ask, ask :-) |
| 01:03:42 | Mad-Cow | ok, well my problem is on the last post of this topic http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=10122.msg78522#msg78522 |
| 01:03:52 | Domonoky | just put your question, if somebody can answer it, they will do.. |
| 01:04:08 | Hilikus | hey, theres a conflict when i tried to update the code, i guess one of the patches changed something, what should i do to merge them? |
| 01:04:35 | Hilikus | its in onplay.c |
| 01:04:40 | | Join a1titude [0] (n=Compaq_A@206-163-245-140.swcr.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca) |
| 01:05:10 | | Quit ender` (" Trying to establish voice contact ... please yell into keyboard.") |
| 01:06:41 | Mad-Cow | I'm trying to modify the bootloader to load another rockbox binary at the press of the UP button, and load the default with if it's not pressed. Problem is that it loads the non-default one no matter what. The loading code is in the last post of this thread: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=10122.msg78522#msg78522 What's wrong with my if/else syntax? |
| 01:07:33 | Domonoky | MadCow: i am looking at it at the moment.. |
| 01:07:47 | Mad-Cow | thanks :) |
| 01:07:58 | Domonoky | its very badly formatet in this post, makes it difficult to read |
| 01:08:16 | Mad-Cow | well then what should I do? |
| 01:08:24 | Mad-Cow | host the whole gigabeat.c somewhere? |
| 01:08:59 | Mad-Cow | or are you saying I suck at coding? :P |
| 01:09:29 | Mad-Cow | because I know that I suck, this is actually the first time I've actually tried editing c |
| 01:09:30 | Domonoky | there are some strange closing brackets.. |
| 01:09:46 | Domonoky | i mean at strange positions. |
| 01:10:10 | Mad-Cow | well that's understandable, I barely know how to use them. |
| 01:10:13 | Mad-Cow | but how bad is it? |
| 01:10:32 | Domonoky | messd up :-) |
| 01:10:46 | Mad-Cow | what would I have to do to fix it? |
| 01:11:16 | Domonoky | remove the } after both load_firmware statements.. |
| 01:11:29 | Mad-Cow | I'll try that |
| 01:11:39 | Domonoky | thats not all |
| 01:11:49 | Mad-Cow | and...? |
| 01:12:03 | Domonoky | there should be a } bevor the else { |
| 01:12:12 | | Quit p3tur ("here today, gone tomorrow") |
| 01:12:32 | Domonoky | and then you need one at the end of the code snipped.. |
| 01:12:33 | Mad-Cow | thanks |
| 01:12:40 | Hilikus | oh man if you dont know how to code you probably should learn that before playing with a bootloader |
| 01:13:04 | Domonoky | properly intending the content inside { } helps |
| 01:13:21 | Mad-Cow | don't worry, I already messed it up a few times and all I ahve to do is go into bootloader USB mode and replace it :) |
| 01:13:31 | Domonoky | let him try, perhaps he will learn :-) |
| 01:13:32 | Hilikus | hehe |
| 01:14:24 | Mad-Cow | that messed it up even more |
| 01:14:37 | | Join p3tur [0] (n=peter@d51A49B9B.access.telenet.be) |
| 01:14:40 | Domonoky | :-) |
| 01:15:01 | Domonoky | i dont really know the code in question, i just read the snippet you posted.. |
| 01:15:23 | Mad-Cow | never mind, it compiled |
| 01:15:27 | Mad-Cow | let me try it out |
| 01:16:14 | | Part p3tur |
| 01:16:26 | Domonoky | Hilikus: have you resolved you patch issue ? :-) |
| 01:17:00 | Mad-Cow | the rest of the code is just bootloader/gigabeat.c with "#define BUTTON_UP 0x00000010" added at the top |
| 01:17:08 | Mad-Cow | and it still doesn't work |
| 01:17:11 | Mad-Cow | :( |
| 01:17:18 | Hilikus | im working on it, i dont really see the conflict |
| 01:17:54 | Hilikus | but this is the first time i resolve a conflict, at work im the only one using svn so there are no conflicts, hehe |
| 01:17:59 | Domonoky | Hilikus: you should have .rej files with the problematic code in it.. |
| 01:18:12 | Hilikus | no, it wasnt patchig, it was updating |
| 01:18:22 | Hilikus | or syncing i think you call it |
| 01:18:39 | Domonoky | rockbox also uses svn |
| 01:18:43 | Hilikus | i know |
| 01:19:05 | Rincewind_ | Hilikus: search the file that conflicts for "<<<" |
| 01:19:07 | Domonoky | so you have a patched build dir ? |
| 01:19:16 | Rincewind_ | this is where the conflict is located |
| 01:19:18 | | Join p3tur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 01:19:22 | Hilikus | yes, i found that, but i dont know why there was a conflict |
| 01:20:30 | Rincewind_ | could you paste it in a pastebin like http://rafb.net/paste/ |
| 01:21:29 | Hilikus | http://rafb.net/p/jCNSC898.html |
| 01:21:49 | Hilikus | well, i do notice that the latest rev has a much shorter onplay function |
| 01:22:16 | Hilikus | thats probably what caused the conflict |
| 01:22:35 | Domonoky | i had the same problem today with another file.. the problem was remove functions.. :-) |
| 01:22:38 | | Part a1titude |
| 01:22:40 | Rincewind_ | onplay.c got the new menu api recently |
| 01:22:55 | Hilikus | oh cool |
| 01:23:12 | Hilikus | i dont know abouth the menu api but it sounds cool |
| 01:23:28 | Domonoky | Mad-Cow: your {} are still not correct.. |
| 01:23:42 | Rincewind_ | well, it breaks your patch ^^ |
| 01:23:54 | Mad-Cow | I realized that, what else is wrong with them? |
| 01:24:10 | Hilikus | i dont know which patch is it, im gonna try to pin point it |
| 01:24:41 | Hilikus | do you know how to do content search in linux by any chance? |
| 01:24:53 | Domonoky | Mad-Cow: your else statement ends after the printf("Load... because there are no {} |
| 01:25:05 | Rincewind_ | Hilikus: with grep |
| 01:25:16 | Hilikus | i cant remember the parameter |
| 01:25:25 | Mad-Cow | OK, so where do put the { }? |
| 01:25:29 | Hilikus | ill man it |
| 01:25:38 | Rincewind_ | I usually call grep from emacs, so I don't type it out myself |
| 01:25:55 | Hilikus | how do you do that??? |
| 01:26:06 | Mad-Cow | a { after else and a } underload_firmware? |
| 01:26:31 | Rincewind_ | M-X rgrep |
| 01:26:32 | Domonoky | Mad-Cow: first is correct second not.. |
| 01:26:43 | Mad-Cow | then where does the 2nd go? |
| 01:26:53 | Hilikus | oh cool, thanks, didnt know about that |
| 01:27:19 | Domonoky | at the end of the snippet.. |
| 01:27:33 | Rincewind_ | this is the command it gives me when I search "search string" in *.[ch] files: |
| 01:27:39 | Rincewind_ | find . \( -path \*/CVS -o -path \*/.svn -o -path \*/\{arch\} -o -path \*/.hg -o -path \*/_darcs \) -prune -o -type f \( -name \*.\[ch\] \) -print0 | xargs -0 -e grep -i -nH -e search\ string |
| 01:27:53 | Hilikus | wow |
| 01:28:13 | Rincewind_ | you can run this from the terminal and replace after -e with your query |
| 01:28:21 | Mad-Cow | thanks, I'll try that now |
| 01:29:00 | Rincewind_ | this is the output, btw: |
| 01:29:05 | Rincewind_ | ./plugins/doom/d_deh.c:2703: found = deh_procStringSub(key, NULL, holdstring, fpout); // supply keyand not search string |
| 01:29:05 | Rincewind_ | Grep finished (matches found) at Fri May 4 01:26:06 |
| 01:29:11 | | Join Soap3 [0] (n=Soap@host-69-95-63-45.spr.choiceone.net) |
| 01:29:42 | Mad-Cow | Domonoky: Nope it still doesn't work |
| 01:30:10 | Domonoky | Mad-Cow: then you are on your own, read a C book.. |
| 01:30:50 | Mad-Cow | Oh well, at least I tried |
| 01:32:05 | | Quit p3tur (Remote closed the connection) |
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| 01:34:43 | moos | Mad-Cow: you should try to ask an other time when that will be more C experts...you don't have luck not much main developers around |
| 01:35:03 | moos | 1:34 here in Europe |
| 01:35:24 | Domonoky | but he should still read a c book :-) |
| 01:35:39 | | Quit Slowking_Man (Client Quit) |
| 01:36:01 | moos | indeed :) |
| 01:36:51 | | Quit petur ("Zzzz") |
| 01:37:19 | moos | Domonoky: nice work on rbutil btw (I tested it for the seconds times in my life :)) |
| 01:37:37 | Domonoky | thx |
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| 02:00 |
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| 02:11:24 | | Part pixelma |
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| 02:45:15 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 02:46:56 | | Join webguest57 [0] (i=406bdc78@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-4d3fd89448a20958) |
| 02:48:56 | webguest57 | hi i'm trying to create my own theme for rockbox for my ipod video.i know that it supports .JPEG images but i wanted to know if it could support .GIF images (the pictures that move)????? |
| 02:49:00 | webguest57 | please help? |
| 02:49:07 | webguest57 | : ) |
| 02:49:23 | | Quit skatteola ("Sleeep.") |
| 02:51:20 | webguest57 | if anybody is on and they can help i would really appreciate if they could please tell. : ) |
| 02:53:34 | | Join bting [0] (i=89a5d881@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-daab4cf7a54d8ca4) |
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| 03:00 |
| 03:01:25 | | Join webguest83 [0] (i=406bdc78@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-c298cdbc43533573) |
| 03:01:58 | webguest83 | hi can anybody please tell me how to use the mpeg player on my ipod video? |
| 03:02:09 | webguest83 | i already have rockbox installed. |
| 03:05:54 | webguest83 | ??Hello?? |
| 03:06:05 | webguest83 | ??Are you guy's busy?? |
| 03:06:20 | pearldiver | webguest83 |
| 03:06:27 | webguest83 | oh |
| 03:06:29 | webguest83 | hi |
| 03:06:33 | webguest83 | : ) |
| 03:06:40 | pearldiver | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginMpegplayer |
| 03:06:47 | pearldiver | this page is rather useful |
| 03:06:51 | webguest83 | ok thank you! : ) |
| 03:07:00 | pearldiver | but you "use it" just by "playing" the video file |
| 03:07:25 | webguest83 | ok |
| 03:07:38 | webguest83 | the thing is i cant playthat file?? |
| 03:07:43 | pearldiver | you can download a sample video from that page to test it |
| 03:07:49 | webguest83 | i dont know why? |
| 03:07:50 | pearldiver | see if you can play it |
| 03:08:06 | webguest83 | oh i already did that yesterday. |
| 03:08:12 | webguest83 | didnt work |
| 03:08:20 | pearldiver | what happens when you try to? |
| 03:08:38 | webguest83 | it worked perfectly before but not anymore. |
| 03:08:59 | webguest83 | i ckick on the file but nothing happens |
| 03:09:06 | pearldiver | no messages on the screen? |
| 03:09:15 | webguest83 | nope nothing. |
| 03:09:47 | pearldiver | are you using the latest build? |
| 03:09:51 | webguest83 | sometimes it just takes me to the screen that shows up as if i was playing music. |
| 03:10:18 | | Join axlgreasetires [0] (n=chatzill@c-71-60-225-5.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 03:10:30 | webguest83 | i downloaded rockbox about 2 weeks ago, is that it? |
| 03:11:08 | pearldiver | yeah update it and try again |
| 03:11:46 | webguest83 | ok can you please give me a link? |
| 03:12:13 | pearldiver | whhttp://build.rockbox.org/ |
| 03:12:18 | webguest83 | Thank You! : ) |
| 03:13:21 | webguest83 | wait can the mpeg player play mp4 (the ipod format)??? |
| 03:13:47 | axlgreasetires | nope |
| 03:14:22 | webguest83 | oh nowonder then!! Thanks for the help!!!! |
| 03:14:31 | axlgreasetires | your welcome |
| 03:14:39 | webguest83 | : ) Bye! |
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| 03:25:01 | Hilikus | hey guys, the text in my wps is all low, lower than in the screenshots i see for the wps, ive tried a lot of them and it always happens, what determines the Y position of the text?? |
| 03:26:11 | scorche | do you have the font pack installed? |
| 03:26:28 | Hilikus | yes |
| 03:26:45 | scorche | does the theme require patches? |
| 03:26:57 | Hilikus | i do see the text, its just the Y values are wrong |
| 03:26:58 | Hilikus | yes |
| 03:27:11 | | Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 03:27:14 | Hilikus | im a missing a patch? |
| 03:27:29 | | Join knapp_ [0] (n=knapp@67.132.247.218) |
| 03:27:32 | scorche | the the theme requires one, possibly |
| 03:27:50 | axlgreasetires | You just need a font that fits i have had this problem many times. |
| 03:28:06 | Hilikus | oh so the theme doesnt automatically choose the font? |
| 03:28:07 | krazykit | Hilikus, if you know the y values are wrong, why not fix them manually? |
| 03:28:54 | axlgreasetires | Who takes the time to fix y values |
| 03:29:10 | * | krazykit raises his hand |
| 03:29:15 | axlgreasetires | haha |
| 03:29:39 | krazykit | which is funny, because i'm usually really lazy about this stuff |
| 03:30:39 | Hilikus | what kind of patch would offset Y??? |
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| 03:34:27 | axlgreasetires | i have to go eat some ice cream see ya |
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| 03:52:08 | Hilikus | i dont see any Y value for tetx |
| 03:52:11 | Hilikus | text* |
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| 03:52:22 | HellDragon | hey |
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| 03:55:42 | HellDragon | I just used ipodpatcher on my ipod but now when I reboot it it's stuck at apple logo (black screen with white apple), I can only reset it then it goes back there ? |
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| 03:58:31 | HellDragon | :( |
| 03:59:00 | HellDragon | it isnt even detected in itunes |
| 04:00 |
| 04:00:53 | HellDragon | nvm, i managed to boot into disk mode |
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| 04:12:06 | Hilikus | krazykit: how do i change Y for text?? |
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| 04:17:43 | JdGordon | HellDragon: did you forget to unzip rockbox.zip before rebooting? |
| 04:17:55 | HellDragon | no |
| 04:18:00 | HellDragon | well it's fixed now |
| 04:18:04 | scorche | if he is stuck at the apple, then that isnt teh issue |
| 04:18:07 | JdGordon | Hilikus: in the wps? it works by lines... so you cant position text to a pixel value |
| 04:18:28 | scorche | HellDragon: seems alot from #f-s have been coming in here lately =P |
| 04:18:29 | JdGordon | scorche: happened to me also. the rockbox.ipod file was corrupted and i got that sympton |
| 04:18:37 | HellDragon | scorche: :o |
| 04:18:42 | HellDragon | JdGordon: could be that |
| 04:18:52 | Hilikus | so how do i move everything up? for some reason my wps are all lowered, so low that it gets cut in the bottom |
| 04:19:09 | JdGordon | remove empty lines in the .wps |
| 04:19:39 | Hilikus | i thought empty lines were ignored |
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| 04:20:18 | JdGordon | no, they are used to positin tetx |
| 04:20:21 | JdGordon | text |
| 04:20:25 | JdGordon | ... sort of |
| 04:20:33 | * | JdGordon gone |
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| 04:21:33 | Hilikus | i dont see any empty lines! |
| 04:21:35 | Hilikus | :S |
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| 04:36:49 | HellDragon | lol |
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| 05:11:51 | webguest88 | Hello??? |
| 05:12:16 | webguest88 | Rockbox has stuffed my gigabeat... How do I fix it? |
| 05:12:32 | krazykit | define "stuffed" |
| 05:13:03 | webguest88 | Loading Firmware file not found then shuts down |
| 05:13:47 | krazykit | did you follow the instructions on the wiki? |
| 05:14:13 | webguest88 | URL Link? |
| 05:15:02 | krazykit | seriously? |
| 05:15:23 | krazykit | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/GigabeatFXPort#Installation_Instructions |
| 05:16:47 | krazykit | though it sounds like you'll need the recovery procedures found a bit below on the page |
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| 05:17:10 | webguest88 | OK yeah It was all working. I used the software I got from Toshiba the "formatting utility for gigabeat" then it stuffed up |
| 05:18:09 | krazykit | did you have rockbox before running the 'formatting utility'? |
| 05:18:19 | webguest88 | Yes |
| 05:18:29 | krazykit | you probably need to reinstall then |
| 05:18:42 | krazykit | it likely overwrote the firmware and such |
| 05:19:10 | webguest88 | I all worked fine. I just needed to format the gigabeat. And I want the old gigabeat software on the gigabeat now. |
| 05:19:26 | krazykit | oh, you wanted the original firmware? |
| 05:19:28 | webguest88 | *It all worked fine. |
| 05:19:38 | webguest88 | Yes, original firmware |
| 05:19:45 | webguest88 | Please |
| 05:19:46 | krazykit | all you had to do was rename the fwimg01.dat and remove .rockbox |
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| 05:21:08 | webguest88 | :( |
| 05:21:36 | krazykit | well, i've never used the original firmware and i don't have windows to figure out the toshiba software, so i can't help much from here. |
| 05:21:36 | webguest88 | Well now its stuffed, hey? |
| 05:21:54 | krazykit | in theory, the toshiba software should restore it |
| 05:22:18 | webguest88 | Well it did not. |
| 05:22:41 | webguest88 | How do I restore the \GBSYSTEM\FWIMG setup |
| 05:22:42 | webguest88 | ? |
| 05:22:53 | krazykit | hopefully, you'd backed it up |
| 05:22:54 | krazykit | if not |
| 05:23:33 | krazykit | i have a backup of that entire folder |
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| 05:23:43 | webguest88 | something to do with FWIMG01.DAT.ORIG ? |
| 05:23:48 | krazykit | yeah |
| 05:23:54 | krazykit | rename that to fwimg01.dat |
| 05:24:29 | | Quit a1titude (Client Quit) |
| 05:25:13 | krazykit | if you didn't replace the other files with the blanks, it should just boot you back ot the original firmware |
| 05:25:48 | webguest88 | OK... Look likes its fine now... |
| 05:26:12 | webguest88 | I just needed to change that FWIMG01.DAT.ORIG to FWIMG01.DAT and its fine |
| 05:26:30 | webguest88 | deleted the old FWIMG01.DAT |
| 05:26:55 | krazykit | yep. |
| 05:27:01 | krazykit | might wanna back that folder up, just in case |
| 05:27:38 | webguest88 | Oh? |
| 05:27:58 | krazykit | yeah, it never hurts to back stuff up |
| 05:28:08 | krazykit | especially since it sounds like the toshiba tool doesn't work |
| 05:28:36 | webguest88 | No their tool is not great |
| 05:28:56 | krazykit | like many manufacturers, good hardware, crummy software |
| 05:30:33 | webguest88 | One last question... |
| 05:31:05 | krazykit | mmhm |
| 05:32:36 | webguest88 | When useing the "formatting utility for gigabeat" what should I set the "Allocation unit size" at? 32KB, 16KB or 8KB? |
| 05:33:07 | krazykit | uh, i think 32kb |
| 05:33:30 | krazykit | shouldn't matter though |
| 05:34:02 | webguest88 | OK Kool |
| 05:34:16 | webguest88 | Thanks you have been great! |
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| 05:34:26 | Hilikus | whats this |
| 05:34:27 | Hilikus | %CfFFFFFF |
| 05:34:34 | Hilikus | in a wps |
| 05:34:51 | krazykit | looks like a color, maybe? |
| 05:35:04 | * | krazykit isn't familiar enough with wps yet though |
| 05:35:15 | Hilikus | it does look like one, any idea which patch is that? or is that standard |
| 05:35:47 | krazykit | i can't tell the patch from a string in the WPS... the README or wherever it was hosted should say what patch/build it needs |
| 05:37:20 | Hilikus | it says which build it is, and the build has a million patches, i am doing my own build :S |
| 05:37:53 | krazykit | ask the author? |
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| 05:50:37 | HellDragon | lol |
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| 06:11:44 | pearldiver | there's something wrong with graphic EQ screen, i just noticed |
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| 06:13:18 | pearldiver | http://download.rockbox.org/manual/rockbox-gigabeatf/configure_rockbox/images/ss-equalizer-240x320x16.png |
| 06:14:04 | pearldiver | now where the black select box is, it actually covers the numbers so you can't see them |
| 06:14:14 | pearldiver | gigabeat target, latest build |
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| 07:19:07 | HellDragon | wow, my ipod is stuck in the file browser, it wont reset with select+menu and doesnt do anything |
| 07:20:03 | scorche | if it wont reset with select+menu, then something is seriously wrong with your ipod...that is hardware |
| 07:20:50 | Slasheri | hold is on? |
| 07:20:52 | scorche | did you switch hold on and off and then hold select+menu for 30 seconds? |
| 07:21:04 | HellDragon | weird stuff happening |
| 07:21:05 | HellDragon | yeah i tried |
| 07:21:43 | scorche | so you did what i just said? |
| 07:23:13 | HellDragon | i think it's because it's overheating |
| 07:23:25 | scorche | why would it be overheating? |
| 07:23:31 | HellDragon | because it's hot |
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| 08:57:14 | CelticSoul | hi guys |
| 08:57:57 | CelticSoul | is there any plan that rockbox will support Monkey Audio soon? |
| 08:58:27 | B4gder | no |
| 08:58:39 | B4gder | Monkey Audio is not licenced GPL-compatible |
| 08:58:53 | B4gder | and most likely requires too much CPU |
| 08:59:14 | * | petur can supply some monkey audio as wav or mp3 file :p |
| 08:59:54 | CelticSoul | thanks, do you know where I can find a list of support audio codec fox rockbox? |
| 09:00 |
| 09:00:17 | CelticSoul | cant find it in the wiki |
| 09:00:28 | B4gder | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SoundCodecs#Current_status |
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| 09:03:19 | CelticSoul | wonderful, it would be perfect if Monkey Audio was in the list :) |
| 09:03:53 | B4gder | you'd be a lot happier if you transcoded to flac or something instead |
| 09:04:59 | CelticSoul | I rather not, I dont like to mess with filenames and tags... |
| 09:05:51 | B4gder | you do as you please of course |
| 09:06:39 | CelticSoul | thank you B4gder, have a nice day! |
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| 09:46:17 | Toni1 | my first commit: and bingo, red |
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| 09:48:36 | scorche | that looks suspiciously like an outdated arm-elf-gcc |
| 09:48:52 | scorche | and where is your last name?! |
| 09:49:54 | Toni1 | sorry, I didn't know, that the 'real name' is displayed there |
| 09:50:15 | Toni1 | so maybe Linus can change that? |
| 09:50:26 | scorche | but yeah...dont worry...your build is fine |
| 09:50:34 | scorche | patch even |
| 09:50:59 | Toni1 | Ooh, fine |
| 09:51:33 | LinusN | Toni1: i just fized that |
| 09:51:37 | LinusN | fixed even |
| 09:51:46 | Toni1 | Thanks, Linus |
| 09:51:59 | LinusN | i just sent you an email btw |
| 09:52:21 | Toni1 | so the commit was just in time |
| 09:58:39 | B4gder | that red is a bad compiler on Slasheri's box |
| 09:59:13 | B4gder | I'll disable arm builds on it until it is fixed |
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| 10:00 |
| 10:00:38 | | Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 10:03:11 | linuxstb | CelticSoul: What device are you running Rockbox on, and what compression level are your APE files? |
| 10:03:12 | Toni1 | linuxstb: Am I right, that currently the main thread on PP502x does nothing except plugin execution? |
| 10:03:39 | linuxstb | No - all the UI stuff happens on the main thread. |
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| 10:04:19 | B4gder | Toni1: welcome to the team! |
| 10:04:33 | Toni1 | Bagder: thanks :) |
| 10:05:15 | LinusN | you sould have had svn access a long time ago |
| 10:05:44 | Toni1 | Really, I didn't know about that :-) |
| 10:06:50 | earHertz | amazing. why would sansa make it hard to port rockbox? |
| 10:07:06 | linuxstb | What do people think about Toni committing his Sansa emulator to SVN? |
| 10:07:16 | B4gder | I'd love to see that in svn |
| 10:08:06 | linuxstb | Me too. |
| 10:08:24 | Toni1 | Hmm, still a lot of work to do on that |
| 10:08:54 | Mode | "#rockbox -o Bagder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 10:08:59 | B4gder | earHertz: sandisk has put some efforts in making it hard to run custom firmwares on the sansas at least |
| 10:09:36 | earHertz | B4gder: yes, i just don't understand why. seems that not doing so gives them a slight edge against teh ipod behemoth |
| 10:09:39 | B4gder | especially the R models, but there Real has done additional work |
| 10:09:45 | earHertz | er, would give |
| 10:09:55 | CelticSoul | linuxstd: I'm using iPod Color 4G, not sure about the ape compression level |
| 10:10:02 | earHertz | real as in real player? oh |
| 10:10:07 | linuxstb | Maybe one day a DAP will have the "otheros" feature similar to the PS3... |
| 10:10:26 | B4gder | earHertz: yes, as in Real the company behind Rhapsody |
| 10:10:33 | earHertz | oh |
| 10:11:03 | earHertz | rockbox on ipod looks cleaner since I last checked in here |
| 10:11:09 | earHertz | quite sweet |
| 10:11:22 | B4gder | in general I think the manufacturers just prevent custom firmwares because of general fear and not really with a good solid reason |
| 10:12:07 | earHertz | foolish, given they could get teh product out much more cheaply by using rockbox |
| 10:12:16 | scorche | im sure warranty replacements are a good part of that as well...people messing up the device in a way that the company cannot tell that a different firmware was used |
| 10:12:18 | GodEater | B4gder: well in the days when apple still believed in DRM, it would make sense for them to make life difficult for other firmwares since otherwise it would be deemed too easy to allow music piracy |
| 10:12:42 | linuxstb | CelticSoul: If they are either "extra high" or "insane", then there is no chance your ipod will ever be able to play them - APE is a very slow codec. The lower compression levels may be feasible, but would require a lot of work to optimise a decoder. If I was you, I would investigate tools to batch-convert to FLAC. foobar2000 or dbpoweramp can probably both do it. |
| 10:12:52 | B4gder | not really, just replacing firmware does not make it easy to play DRM music in general |
| 10:13:13 | GodEater | B4gder: no - but it makes it easier to play non-DRM music, and transfer it between devices |
| 10:13:18 | B4gder | true |
| 10:13:32 | GodEater | this is the assumption I always worked on anyway |
| 10:13:33 | linuxstb | GodEater: Apple's firmware plays unprotected MP3 files, so what's the difference? |
| 10:13:39 | B4gder | but virtually all companies do this counter-measurements in one way or another |
| 10:13:48 | GodEater | linuxstb: yes, but it stores them in that silly obfuscated manner |
| 10:14:21 | earHertz | actually I better understyand apple being closed, to preserve the cachet of the apple. But not so much those devices that trail the ipod |
| 10:14:21 | GodEater | I'm not saying that made it impossible to get around, just that I think they had to show due dilligence to the record companies |
| 10:14:41 | linuxstb | GodEater: I think that's just a side-effect of being a database-only firmware, rather than a copy-protection measure. Why deal with very long filenames in the database if the user is never shown them? |
| 10:15:09 | earHertz | linuxstb: yeah, but thta doesn't explain the random distribution into different directories |
| 10:15:22 | GodEater | linuxstb: also true, but I still believe they wanted to assure the record companies that they'd made it a pain in the ass to get the music off the ipod |
| 10:15:22 | linuxstb | earHertz: It does - itunes just hashes the filenames |
| 10:15:40 | B4gder | they just split the hash on dir name and file name somehow |
| 10:15:40 | earHertz | oh, really, so it's not random? |
| 10:15:42 | earHertz | oh, oh |
| 10:15:43 | CelticSoul | linuxstb: I'm on gentoo and I dont want to convert between codecs and mess with tags and filenames... |
| 10:16:06 | B4gder | CelticSoul: the grim reality is that APE was the wrong codec to go with from the start... |
| 10:16:06 | GodEater | CelticSoul: be prepared for distro ridicule now :) |
| 10:16:23 | earHertz | huh, is that to even out teh areas of the disk used? |
| 10:16:58 | earHertz | APE is the right codec, because he can always get back to the wav file and rip that |
| 10:17:06 | CelticSoul | I dont rip those files, got them from somewhere else |
| 10:17:08 | scorche | FLAC cant? |
| 10:17:19 | earHertz | scorche: it can too |
| 10:17:28 | B4gder | earHertz: but he's saying he wants to stick with what he used originally, which then is APE... |
| 10:17:50 | | Quit desowin ("use linux") |
| 10:17:51 | earHertz | I meant, as compared to teh first time I ripped stuff, using some dumbass real player gui and proprietary format |
| 10:17:56 | earHertz | years ago ;) |
| 10:17:59 | scorche | exactly...just because APE is lossless, it doesnt mean it is "the right codec" |
| 10:18:30 | B4gder | let's all wait for fixed-point TAK in GPL-compatible C code without malloc ;-) |
| 10:18:49 | earHertz | k? |
| 10:18:51 | earHertz | tak? |
| 10:18:56 | CelticSoul | guys, I did not say which codec is right or wrong, I just dont want to mess with tags and filenames, that's all |
| 10:19:07 | GodEater | I'm drawing a blank on TAK too |
| 10:19:21 | B4gder | earHertz: rather recent lossless codec with good numbers |
| 10:19:26 | | Join aliask [0] (n=chatzill@c210-49-190-113.eburwd8.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 10:19:36 | earHertz | zh |
| 10:19:38 | earHertz | ah |
| 10:19:45 | scorche | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAK_%28audio_codec%29 |
| 10:20:01 | earHertz | B4gder: out of curiosuity, do you still use your archos? |
| 10:20:18 | B4gder | nope |
| 10:20:26 | earHertz | what then? |
| 10:20:38 | B4gder | not as a DAP at least, only as a paper weight ;-) |
| 10:20:50 | GodEater | scorche: nice - article scheduled for deletion |
| 10:20:54 | B4gder | I use my X5 mostly and sansa occationally |
| 10:21:08 | B4gder | and I intend to exersize my h140 soon as well |
| 10:21:13 | earHertz | habven't tried those |
| 10:21:23 | earHertz | but I do like my ipod video |
| 10:21:46 | earHertz | funny thing is, i mostly play a very few albums despite have 60 gb |
| 10:22:02 | * | GodEater lets his H140 live in the car - useful for long trips now that it has a 2200mah battery |
| 10:22:46 | * | B4gder still awaits the first rockbox-related podcasts to appear |
| 10:23:19 | * | kclaf has his ipod5G in car plugged to alpine headunit and blames rockbox for lacking AiR protocol support |
| 10:23:35 | * | kclaf blames himself for not developping it ;) |
| 10:25:06 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:25:18 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@dslb-088-072-228-012.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:25:45 | | Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 10:29:25 | aliask | Is there any way to tell an iPod's generation from the firmware partition? |
| 10:30:40 | earHertz | there are magic numbers, but i forget where |
| 10:31:05 | aliask | There's a firmware format version in there, but it's not very specific |
| 10:31:18 | earHertz | dunno |
| 10:31:21 | aliask | 3 = mini, photo 4th and 5th generation |
| 10:31:39 | linuxstb_ | aliask: Look at the ipodpatcher source - the firmware version can be used for anything later than the 3rd gen. |
| 10:33:00 | | Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:37:26 | markun | CelticSoul: which player do you use for your APE files? |
| 10:37:37 | linuxstb_ | CelticSoul: If you want to play those files on your ipod, you have no choice - we can't make Monkey's Audio efficient. The fact is simply that it's far too complex a codec. |
| 10:38:31 | | Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 10:39:37 | | Quit aliask ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007040314]") |
| 10:39:47 | linuxstb | CelticSoul: FLAC on the other hand is a very efficient codec and highly recommended for use in Rockbox. |
| 10:41:24 | | Part Toni1 |
| 10:41:25 | markun | wavpack is not too bad either |
| 10:42:35 | CelticSoul | markun: I use Audacious with MAC for APE files |
| 10:43:06 | | Quit cendres_ ("leaving") |
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| 10:43:23 | CelticSoul | linuxstb: thanks, I really have no choice then |
| 10:43:42 | linuxstb | CelticSoul: Foobar runs under Wine... |
| 10:44:33 | CelticSoul | I dont like wine, both wine for linux and wine in real life :) |
| 10:45:02 | linuxstb | You've made life hard for yourself then... |
| 10:45:24 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 10:45:24 | CelticSoul | wine just make people lazy to port their apps to linux |
| 10:46:10 | linuxstb | Then I wonder why you chose to use a restricted format like APE. |
| 10:46:39 | markun | CelticSoul: there are a few "ape2flac" scripts |
| 10:47:02 | CelticSoul | man I did not chose it, I got those files from somewhere else |
| 10:47:04 | | Quit lids (Remote closed the connection) |
| 10:47:16 | markun | CelticSoul: not everybody's paying attention today ;) |
| 10:47:44 | B4gder | you chose to keep the format ;-) |
| 10:48:12 | linuxstb | That's what I meant - if I acquire any APE files, I immediately convert to FLAC. |
| 10:49:24 | markun | I'm such a non-audiophile that they go straight to Ogg Vorbis here :) |
| 10:49:25 | CelticSoul | ok, looks like I have no choice but to convert then |
| 10:49:31 | LinusN | does APE have any advantage over FLAC? |
| 10:49:38 | markun | LinusN: better compression |
| 10:49:42 | LinusN | aha |
| 10:49:49 | CelticSoul | yes |
| 10:49:56 | | Join lids [0] (i=lds@gateway/tor/x-0a5ca7cc64637cbf) |
| 10:49:58 | LinusN | way better, or just better? |
| 10:50:02 | B4gder | but the difference is not a lot better |
| 10:50:18 | CelticSoul | they say it's 30-40% |
| 10:50:22 | B4gder | hahaha |
| 10:50:24 | linuxstb | But at a big penalty over decode time - APE can be between about 4 and 50 times as slow to decode as FLAC. |
| 10:50:35 | LinusN | 30-40% better than flac? wow! |
| 10:50:38 | B4gder | the tables I've seen have not shown 30-40 |
| 10:50:39 | markun | LinusN: not so big if you ask me: http://www.monkeysaudio.com/comparison.html |
| 10:50:56 | linuxstb | I thought it was closer to about 2%... |
| 10:51:01 | B4gder | yeah |
| 10:51:11 | markun | but maybe the monkeysaudio guys lied to make the other codecs look better on that page :) |
| 10:51:13 | linuxstb | Assuming "flac -8" |
| 10:51:47 | CelticSoul | dont blame me, I got that info from my friend |
| 10:51:50 | CelticSoul | :) |
| 10:51:54 | LinusN | :-) |
| 10:51:59 | LinusN | never trust your friends :-P |
| 10:52:06 | markun | indeed! :) |
| 10:52:07 | B4gder | name your friend and we'll send the hit team over |
| 10:52:25 | * | B4gder has no friends |
| 10:52:27 | CelticSoul | LOL |
| 10:52:32 | B4gder | *g* |
| 10:52:53 | LinusN | we got rid of Bagder's friends a long time ago |
| 10:53:03 | linuxstb | Here's a more up to date comparison - http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lossless_comparison#Comparison_Table |
| 10:53:04 | markun | I can imagine the difference between ape and flac compression also depends on the audio |
| 10:54:25 | markun | linuxstb: how does WavPack decoding compare to Flac with rockbox? |
| 10:55:01 | linuxstb | It's slower than FLAC but I'm not sure by how much. |
| 10:56:26 | * | amiconn doesn't expect big differences in compression ratio between any 2 lossless codecs (provided they're compared in their maximum compression modes) |
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| 10:56:39 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 10:58:03 | linuxstb | amiconn: The table I liked to shows that the various codecs vary between about 53% and 63% of the original WAV size. I assume that table is based on the average over a large set of test files. Although it uses the default encoder settings. |
| 10:58:11 | linuxstb | s/liked to/linked to/ |
| 10:58:12 | markun | weren't there were some problems with 24-bit support for flac? |
| 10:58:32 | linuxstb | Not problems as such, but the reference encoder isn't very good with 24-bit files. |
| 10:58:59 | linuxstb | That's something the author is working to improve. But it's just an encoder issue, rather than the format itself afaik. |
| 11:00 |
| 11:01:10 | amiconn | The comparison table says APE is open source? |
| 11:01:24 | B4gder | it is |
| 11:01:27 | * | amiconn thought it wasn't, and that'd be the reason why we cannot support it... |
| 11:01:29 | B4gder | just not GPl compatible |
| 11:01:32 | B4gder | GPL |
| 11:01:46 | markun | linuxstb: ah yes: http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/flac-dev/2007-April/002179.html |
| 11:03:10 | amiconn | Ah, that nasty problem again :\ |
| 11:03:19 | B4gder | yeps |
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| 11:06:29 | | Join crop [0] (i=c27f0812@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-31dd329c200e5e7f) |
| 11:08:47 | markun | amiconn: I'm listening to another book using eSpeak again :) |
| 11:08:58 | crop | markun: what are the kbd files used for? Will the custom layout be shown when e.g. entering the name of the file to save the config to? |
| 11:09:09 | markun | crop: yes, exactly |
| 11:09:18 | markun | they change the vkeyboard |
| 11:10:31 | linuxstb | amiconn: The Monkey's Audio author made up his own license and has refused many requests for him to use something standard. The only solution would be to write a decoder from scratch. |
| 11:10:44 | crop | markun: are the lines wrapped? I.e. how can a get the default layout? BTW: it uses the system font, right? And the custom kbd uses UI font? |
| 11:11:16 | crop | markun: default layout arranges symbols to rectangular blocks −− a nice feature |
| 11:11:48 | markun | crop: the kbd wraps until it encounters a newline |
| 11:12:38 | markun | but maybe you can help think about a better way to do the layouting |
| 11:13:29 | markun | but I think this way works ok for now and is quite flexible |
| 11:14:26 | crop | markun: you mean it works like "wrap lines" in text editors? |
| 11:14:45 | markun | crop: yes |
| 11:14:57 | crop | And pages are only scrolled vertically? |
| 11:15:04 | markun | yes |
| 11:15:21 | markun | ah, good point, we could do horizontal scrolling |
| 11:15:23 | linuxstb | markun: What do you think about having virtual keys for actions such as BACKSPACE, ENTER and CANCEL ? IMO that would make the keyboard much friendlier for occasional users. |
| 11:15:35 | markun | linuxstb: I think so too |
| 11:15:36 | crop | One last question (I've never used that): how is the grid computed? |
| 11:16:05 | amiconn | Why virtual keys for actions that can be performed directly? |
| 11:16:08 | markun | by looking at the with of each glyph in the kbd file and choosing the biggest |
| 11:16:08 | crop | And how can I turn it back to the default layout and system font? |
| 11:16:55 | markun | linuxstb: or, to annoy amiconn even more we can add a menu with backspace, enter, cancel etc :) |
| 11:16:59 | linuxstb | amiconn: Because it's friendlier and is what people are used to with virtual keyboards. |
| 11:17:27 | amiconn | Strange idea... the current method is significantly faster |
| 11:17:40 | markun | amiconn: you can beat me up when we meet in sweden :) |
| 11:17:48 | crop | markun: biggest in the whole font or only on the displayed page? |
| 11:17:52 | markun | for all the pain I've caused you over the years |
| 11:17:57 | linuxstb | amiconn: I'm not saying get rid of the shortcuts... |
| 11:18:02 | markun | crop: only in the file |
| 11:18:23 | markun | but yes, we could have done it per page |
| 11:18:43 | crop | markun: no, I like it per file −− no jumps in the GUI |
| 11:18:44 | markun | but this makes the code a lot simpler |
| 11:19:10 | crop | markun: how about returning to the default and system font? Is it possible at all? |
| 11:19:12 | markun | crop: maybe you can play around with it and make suggestions for improvements |
| 11:19:20 | markun | I'm not sure if it's possible |
| 11:19:53 | crop | markun: I hope resetting settings (and possibly a restart) will do |
| 11:19:56 | markun | crop: were you suggesting horizontal crolling btw? |
| 11:20:12 | markun | instead of wrapping |
| 11:21:06 | markun | could be nice |
| 11:21:57 | crop | markun: no, just wanted to know how it works. You can trim your KBD file to your font and screen size. Id isn't worth code complexity IMO. But if could be done at no cost then it would be a nice feature. |
| 11:22:16 | crop | OTOH we'd then have vert and horiz scrolling which is too complicated |
| 11:23:10 | crop | You'd have to have key for the two sorts of scrollings −− a waste |
| 11:24:11 | crop | Hrm... but if you move the cursor to the right then it could scroll... I don't know since (as I said) I've never used that, the default layout did serve me well enoght |
| 11:25:26 | | Join moos [0] (i=moos@m135.net81-66-158.noos.fr) |
| 11:26:09 | markun | crop: what about always keeping the cursor in the center and scroll the keyboard around when you move up/down/left/right? ;) |
| 11:26:36 | markun | just kidding |
| 11:27:27 | amiconn | Keeping the cursor in the center and scroll the keyboard around would actually be a good thing |
| 11:27:32 | B4gder | there could be a scroll margin |
| 11:28:07 | amiconn | (and the cursor would start moving when the keyboard margin is reached |
| 11:28:09 | markun | hm, maybe I'll implement it to try |
| 11:28:39 | amiconn | Then we could get rid of the multi-page split for small LCDs, and the default vkeyboard could also use the UI font |
| 11:29:29 | markun | ok, you got me convinced my idea was not so bad after all :) |
| 11:36:18 | | Quit pabs ("brb") |
| 11:37:19 | crop | No margin is needed. Just wrap it left to right and up-down. I.e. make it a sphere. |
| 11:38:28 | | Join pixelma [0] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
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| 11:39:45 | markun | crop: yes, that would be possible too |
| 11:39:49 | pixelma | crop: how would you enter line edit mode then on some targets? |
| 11:40:05 | | Join pabs [0] (n=pabs@xor.pablotron.org) |
| 11:40:08 | markun | pixelma: how do you enter it now? |
| 11:40:09 | | Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@jau31-3-82-239-20-145.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:40:23 | linuxstb | Using the default kbd layout (i.e. no .kbd file) on my ipod Color, I get a large (about 25% of the width) block of spaces on the right side of the screen which the cursor moves around in - is that intended? |
| 11:41:15 | pixelma | markun: going "up" from the uppermost line in the vkeyboard, or "down" from the lowest... |
| 11:41:27 | markun | aha |
| 11:41:34 | markun | lack of buttons? |
| 11:42:30 | markun | pixelma: well, from the new vkeyboard menu item "line edit mode" then ;) |
| 11:42:47 | pixelma | on Ondio that seems to be the reason, but afaik this is the case on other targets as well - on my M5 it works the same way and I find it quite handy... |
| 11:42:47 | moos | yup like on X5/M5 for exemple |
| 11:43:26 | markun | maybe we can work on the vkeyboard code at the devcon |
| 11:43:37 | amiconn | markun: The player vkeyboard used to have a menu. I can tell you, it was incredibly cumbersome and unintuitive... |
| 11:44:20 | | Join Entasis [0] (n=Jarred@ppp48-102.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 11:48:29 | markun | amiconn: yes, to go to a menu for every backspace sounds terrible |
| 11:48:56 | crop | yes, that nasty line edit mode.... maybe long SELECT press? Or MODE? I don't know what keys are available on different daps |
| 11:49:38 | amiconn | The Ondio has 6 buttons |
| 11:49:52 | linuxstb | IMO, one aim for Rockbox's UI should be that at least the main features of Rockbox (and I would include the keyboard in that) are usable by anyone without them needing to read the manual - i.e. give them a device with Rockbox installed and they can use it. It currently takes experimentation and failure to deduce how the keyboard works, and even then a user may not guess all the key combinations available. |
| 11:49:52 | pixelma | crop: all "easy" presses (i.e. no combos) they are used |
| 11:49:56 | | Quit petur ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 11:50:07 | amiconn | Off (or more correctly Power) is cancel, short Mode selects letter, L/R/U/D moves, and long Mode is accept |
| 11:50:19 | amiconn | Nothing left for extra functions |
| 11:50:41 | moos | linuxstb: indeed |
| 11:51:11 | amiconn | linuxstb: The vkeyboard needs experimentation?? |
| 11:51:50 | moos | for find keys... |
| 11:52:04 | linuxstb | amiconn: Yes. For example, "select" would seem a natural button to confirm the entry on an ipod, but it doesn't. |
| 11:52:10 | moos | if the user didn't read the manual |
| 11:53:16 | linuxstb | DAPs simply don't have keys which are obviously labeled for virtual keyboard use. |
| 11:53:55 | pixelma | the only things I maybe wouldn't have found out without asking is "accept" and "cancel" but once you know it, its nice to have. Hard to find a better way... |
| 11:54:23 | linuxstb | I agree the shortcuts should be there, I just think virtual keys would be nice as well. |
| 11:54:54 | moos | pixelma: an "accept" item and a "cancel" one ? |
| 11:55:05 | moos | linuxstb: same here |
| 11:57:50 | crop | Actually, I've never needed a custom kbd. If I need some special chars in the name then I just save the file under what is suggested and edit the name on the PC afterwards. I find the default layout better than the layout with the UI font. More chars fit in and nice blocks. |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:11 | markun | crop: it's be nice for non english rockbox users |
| 12:00:27 | markun | it has a korean input-method for example |
| 12:00:30 | | Part maffe |
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| 12:02:14 | crop | markun: but it's still easier done on a PC |
| 12:02:39 | markun | crop: but koreans love gadgets :) |
| 12:03:22 | crop | markun: but that much?! =:-O |
| 12:03:24 | amiconn | It all depends. E.g. on the recorders virtual buttons for operations won't make sense at all |
| 12:03:40 | amiconn | ...because of its soft buttons which are labeled in the button bar |
| 12:03:52 | crop | So personally I'd keep to a bare minimum |
| 12:04:17 | amiconn | And by using the UI font I could have _more_ chars per page than with the sysfont on the archoses... |
| 12:04:25 | crop | A DAP is not a full fledged input device. Period. |
| 12:04:53 | markun | crop: we can still improve it. Why are you so negative? |
| 12:05:01 | markun | or 'realistic' :) |
| 12:05:17 | crop | That's the right word! :-) |
| 12:11:34 | | Quit lids (Remote closed the connection) |
| 12:15:48 | crop | A DAP will never be at text input as a PC with a real keyboard. That's why I think we should make text input on the dap just good enough but not as perfect as it's on a PC |
| 12:16:23 | linuxstb | crop: Shouldn't we simply try to make it as good as we can? |
| 12:17:10 | linuxstb | You seem to be saying we shouldn't try... |
| 12:18:14 | markun | crop: well, I'm glad we don't all think like this |
| 12:18:33 | markun | or else I wouldn't be able to watch Twin Peaks on my 'DAP' now |
| 12:18:58 | crop | linuxstb: no, that I'm not saying. I only think that we shouldn't make it overcomplicated and spend too much time on it and increase the bin size. |
| 12:19:22 | linuxstb | crop: OK, I agree with that. |
| 12:19:50 | linuxstb | Not necessarily spending time on it, but the bin size and complication issues. |
| 12:20:36 | crop | linuxstb: and personally for me the default layout is good enough (see above) But (see amiconn's reply) it depends on the DAP. I own a h120. |
| 12:21:16 | crop | linuxstb: *too much* time ;-) (your next post: define "too much" :-))) |
| 12:21:43 | linuxstb | crop: That's up to the developer - if someone wants to spend time on the keyboard, why not? |
| 12:22:17 | crop | No reason why not, absolutely. |
| 12:22:57 | markun | 12:04 < crop> A DAP is not a full fledged input device. Period. |
| 12:22:58 | Pimpdaddypayne | markun! goed dag! |
| 12:23:06 | markun | Pimpdaddypayne: good day man :) |
| 12:24:46 | crop | markun: yes, I still think so. That's why I think that the default layout is good enough. But if someone likes to work on it I'll never say "don't" Just I wouldn't do it. |
| 12:25:17 | markun | Pimpdaddypayne: do you see my PM's? |
| 12:25:42 | Pimpdaddypayne | I see them! :) |
| 12:25:42 | markun | crop: ok |
| 12:27:07 | crop | There is a red build and nobody screams? |
| 12:27:46 | B4gder | we scream |
| 12:27:50 | B4gder | at Slasheri |
| 12:28:12 | B4gder | and disabled arm builds on his build server in the mean time |
| 12:28:23 | crop | B4gder: why at him? |
| 12:28:30 | crop | Just ahabit? :-) |
| 12:28:34 | B4gder | click the red link and see |
| 12:28:46 | B4gder | and consider his server did the build |
| 12:29:07 | | Join webguest81 [0] (i=3b8dd6d0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-b8b8ec5c4de29e81) |
| 12:29:18 | webguest81 | yo |
| 12:29:27 | markun | webguest81: 'sup? |
| 12:29:57 | webguest81 | markun: fine, bout you ? |
| 12:30:17 | crop | B4gder: so you should blame the server, not Slasheri |
| 12:30:33 | B4gder | we blame the compiler actually |
| 12:30:46 | B4gder | but Slasheri's in charge of the server and the one who can upgrade the compiler |
| 12:30:50 | scorche | and Slasheri's lack of updating ;) |
| 12:31:20 | linuxstb | B4gder: Does configure do any validation of minimum gcc versions? |
| 12:31:26 | B4gder | nope |
| 12:32:14 | markun | webguest81: same old |
| 12:32:15 | | Quit webguest81 (Client Quit) |
| 12:32:44 | B4gder | linuxstb: but I guess displaying some kind of warning would be suitable |
| 12:33:42 | linuxstb | Maybe it's not worth the effort, but it would be nice if the build system could distinguish between builds failing due to environment (and try a different server) and fail due to bad code. |
| 12:34:11 | B4gder | that'd require a bit too much work to be worth it imho |
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| 12:34:56 | B4gder | Toni1: try to refer to tracker entries as "FS #[num]" in commit messages |
| 12:35:06 | Slasheri | i will update the compilers soon |
| 12:35:08 | B4gder | as then they'll be URLs etc in the logs |
| 12:35:13 | Toni1 | ok, will do next time |
| 12:35:26 | Slasheri | FS#xxxx works fine as well |
| 12:35:26 | B4gder | Slasheri: great |
| 12:35:42 | B4gder | right, space in between is optional |
| 12:37:11 | Toni1 | regarding PP502x register definitions: shouldn't the CPU_INT_STAT be changed to the correct value? |
| 12:37:50 | Toni1 | currently it is defined as 0x64004000 but the correct one is 0x60004000 |
| 12:38:41 | preglow | sure |
| 12:38:44 | Toni1 | which doesn't matter because of memory address mapping anyway, but my emulator has some problems :) |
| 12:38:45 | preglow | it's the same thing due to liasing, though |
| 12:38:52 | preglow | but feel free to change it |
| 12:39:12 | Toni1 | ok, will do soon |
| 12:39:54 | amiconn | Shouldn't the emulator behave as close to the target as possible? |
| 12:40:14 | preglow | we don't know exactly how the memory controller works |
| 12:41:04 | Toni1 | these oddities makes things more complicated, as they are already |
| 12:45:26 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 12:45:58 | linuxstb | preglow: Can you remember where 0x64004000 came from? Was it just a lucky typo? |
| 12:46:11 | Toni1 | false alaram: barrywardell did it already |
| 12:46:29 | * | linuxstb spots 0x64004000 in the IPL source... |
| 12:46:53 | linuxstb | Which probably implies that the Apple firmware uses it... |
| 12:49:21 | preglow | linuxstb: ipl, yes |
| 12:49:44 | preglow | i don't think i've ever seen it in disassemblies myself |
| 12:53:11 | Toni1 | linuxstb: I enabled the cop cpsr register for IRQs and got unexpected interrupts beside TIMER1 interrupts, any idea? |
| 12:54:54 | Toni1 | none of the COP_INT_STAT and COP_IE_STAT bits was set |
| 12:55:05 | preglow | hmm |
| 13:00 |
| 13:02:15 | linuxstb | Toni1: On your Sansa I assume? |
| 13:02:52 | Toni1 | yes |
| 13:04:09 | Toni1 | I will investigate further |
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| 15:00 |
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| 15:12:41 | markun | overall happy rockbox users over at mygigabeat: http://www.mygigabeat.com/forum/messages.cfm?threadid=51C8C17D-3048-2906-EA49535BE3F8D29B |
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| 15:15:49 | eMb | How's the runtime when viewing videos with gigabeat? |
| 15:18:07 | linuxstb_ | eMb: I don't think anyone has ever run a test. But the need to have the backlight permanently on will drain the battery a lot. |
| 15:18:17 | eMb | aye, also decoding |
| 15:18:55 | eMb | Right now trying to find the cheapest available player that also has Usable status with rockbox |
| 15:20:01 | linuxstb_ | "usable" depends on how important battery life is to you, plus if you want to use CPU-intensive features such as video or the software DSP effects (equaliser etc). |
| 15:20:08 | markun | yes, there was a test by llorean |
| 15:20:13 | markun | about 5 hours iirc |
| 15:20:19 | eMb | That's pretty good. |
| 15:20:20 | linuxstb_ | Ah yes, I remember now,.. |
| 15:20:40 | eMb | Anyways, I'm not going to use any DSP effects, visualizations, video, or such. |
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| 15:21:10 | markun | eMb: one of the biggest consumers is the backlight, if you lower the brightness you could gain some more time |
| 15:22:48 | markun | eMb: look at the difference with LCD on or off http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/viewfile/Main/GigabeatInfo?rev=2;filename=Power.html |
| 15:23:29 | eMb | wow |
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| 15:27:20 | markun | linuxstb_: we should add brightness control to mpegplayer for targets which support it |
| 15:28:02 | amiconn | Why separate brightness control when you have it in rockbox itself? |
| 15:28:39 | eMb | Wouldn't mpegplayer brightness just change the pixels to display more white? |
| 15:29:50 | dionoea | i though that LCDs used a backlight |
| 15:30:01 | dionoea | so the pixel's color isn't related to brightness |
| 15:30:06 | dionoea | unless i'm wrong of course :) |
| 15:30:24 | eMb | Yeah, so mpegplayer shouldn't have anything to do with brightness? |
| 15:30:32 | eMb | I don't know. Don't listen to me. |
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| 15:31:34 | DarkJesus | Can someone tell me if the audioscrobbler capabilities are in the default build of rockbox? |
| 15:31:35 | | Part ctaf |
| 15:32:05 | eMb | Strange, the iPods seem cheaper than both irivers and iaudios |
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| 15:33:03 | GodEater | DarkJesus: yes they are |
| 15:33:08 | DarkJesus | Awesome |
| 15:33:12 | B4gder | and the gigabeats and sansas are cheaper than ipods... |
| 15:33:20 | GodEater | only we call them last.fm, not audioscrobbler |
| 15:33:50 | GodEater | I <3 my gigabeat |
| 15:34:09 | eMb | awesome, I've long wanted my old creative player to support audioscrobbler |
| 15:37:52 | markun | amiconn: because you cannot go back to the rockbox menu from withing the mpegplayer plugin |
| 15:38:02 | markun | same reason why we have volume control in the mpegplayer |
| 15:38:03 | linuxstb_ | markun: Maybe making the LCD settings menu accessible from within mpegplayer would be better? |
| 15:38:29 | markun | linuxstb_: which other settings in there would you want to change? |
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| 15:39:28 | linuxstb_ | markun: OK, probably none... |
| 15:39:51 | | Part oll2 |
| 15:40:35 | amiconn | markun: Do you change brightness all the time while watching tv? |
| 15:40:47 | amiconn | Unlike volume, you probably don't... |
| 15:41:01 | markun | I do, otherwise I wouldn't suggest it |
| 15:41:43 | GodEater | I would suggest it makes even MORE sense on a portable player to have easy access to brightness |
| 15:42:03 | GodEater | since if you're watching on the bus or something, lighting conditions change quicker than in your living room |
| 15:42:22 | markun | amiconn: if you are trying to watch something outside and the lighting coditions change the screen can become almost invisible |
| 15:42:52 | markun | and don't tell me "I just wouldn't watch it outside" |
| 15:42:53 | eMb | Hey, the feature comparison page says the files in dir limit for rockbox is 10000? |
| 15:43:08 | eMb | I read otherwhere on the site that this is user configurable. Is 10000 the absolute max? |
| 15:43:16 | GodEater | eMb: it's configurable |
| 15:43:17 | eMb | Otherwise a footnote or change is warranted. |
| 15:43:19 | GodEater | 10,000 is the default |
| 15:43:26 | amiconn | No it's not |
| 15:43:27 | linuxstb_ | I thought 400 was the default? |
| 15:43:30 | GodEater | no ? |
| 15:43:37 | amiconn | 10000 is the maximum. 400 is the default |
| 15:43:41 | eMb | ok |
| 15:43:45 | amiconn | Tjis is *per dir* not in total |
| 15:43:46 | eMb | Then no need for any change. |
| 15:43:56 | * | GodEater heads for the back of the class with his dunce's cap in hnad |
| 15:44:07 | amiconn | *This even |
| 15:44:21 | linuxstb_ | amiconn: Do you know why there's a maximum? |
| 15:44:31 | amiconn | Yes |
| 15:44:40 | linuxstb_ | :) What's the reason? |
| 15:44:44 | B4gder | there needs to be values to select from in the settings screen if nothing else |
| 15:44:48 | amiconn | 10000 dirs already take half of the memory on the archoses |
| 15:45:42 | linuxstb_ | But in theory, an insanse user could recompile and increase it? |
| 15:45:55 | linuxstb_ | insane user even |
| 15:46:08 | amiconn | On targets with more ram, yes |
| 15:46:26 | DarkJesus | Wow, rockbox looks totally different |
| 15:46:26 | amiconn | For some reason the default is now 1000?!??!?!! |
| 15:46:28 | B4gder | the "100000-dir entries custom build" |
| 15:46:52 | amiconn | JdGordon must have changed that during the settings transition :( |
| 15:48:50 | markun | DarkJesus: better? :) |
| 15:49:36 | eMb | Hey, does the Gigabeat MEG-F40 count as an F40 as far as compatibility go? |
| 15:49:44 | GodEater | it doesn't just count |
| 15:49:48 | GodEater | it IS an F40 |
| 15:49:56 | GodEater | we just abbreviated it |
| 15:50:04 | eMb | alright, great |
| 15:50:10 | eMb | I'm considering buying one. |
| 15:50:16 | DarkJesus | markun, yes |
| 15:50:17 | eMb | For hot rockbox action. |
| 15:50:19 | GodEater | they're great vlue |
| 15:50:46 | eMb | greatest GB/buck value out of the supported models, it seems |
| 15:51:03 | markun | and MHz/buck :) |
| 15:51:11 | markun | I think.. |
| 15:51:11 | GodEater | heh - *easily* that |
| 15:51:29 | B4gder | greatest [fill in]/buck for almost any fill-in |
| 15:51:48 | markun | eMb: but no radio or recording |
| 15:51:59 | eMb | I don't need either. |
| 15:52:01 | linuxstb_ | amiconn: Are you going to fix the default back to 400? |
| 15:52:16 | eMb | Radio is unbearable most of the time, and recording is not something I've ever felt the need for. |
| 15:53:13 | GodEater | so who's going to write the TCP/IP stack for when we get the Zune going, and want internet radio ? ;) |
| 15:53:50 | linuxstb_ | GodEater: You can just reboot into zune-linux for that... |
| 15:54:05 | markun | GodEater: http://www.sics.se/~adam/uip/ |
| 15:54:06 | GodEater | of course, I'd forgotten how successful that project was... |
| 15:54:10 | B4gder | there are freely availbly tiny IP stacks |
| 15:54:42 | eMb | Can't you just use already available (GPL) code for that, or is the complete-rewrite policy all-encompassing? |
| 15:54:50 | linuxstb_ | We would have to start worrying about security then though... |
| 15:55:09 | GodEater | linuxstb_: how depressing |
| 15:55:30 | * | GodEater wouldn't want his DAP to get DDOS at the traffic lights |
| 15:56:54 | intgr | Hehe, does security really matter in such a device? |
| 15:58:27 | intgr | And, well, Rockbox is probably already vulnerable to maliciously crafted audio files. |
| 15:59:02 | B4gder | well, if it would reboot or raise volume when a funny person in the car next to you press a button it might turn boring |
| 15:59:34 | intgr | Broadcasting a message remotely would be a good prank. |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:00 | eMb | "This is the FBI, turn over immediately." |
| 16:00:37 | intgr | Yeah, something like that. |
| 16:00:52 | eMb | or just a good merzbow track :) |
| 16:02:27 | eMb | I've got to head out. Nice talking to you. |
| 16:02:27 | | Part eMb ("(>^_(>°_°") |
| 16:03:22 | intgr | Does the Zune have a mechanical switch to turn off its Wi-Fi? |
| 16:06:14 | intgr | And speaking of wireless, how come there are so few DAPs with Bluetooth support? |
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| 16:08:34 | amiconn | What good would be bluetooth on a dap? |
| 16:08:52 | amiconn | It's too slow for transferring files and/or hifi audio transmission |
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| 16:13:33 | bluebrother | it would be good for sucking out the battery ;-) |
| 16:14:10 | intgr | Well, it's much more power-conservative than Wi-Fi, and Bluetooth 2.0 goes up to 2-something Mbit/s |
| 16:14:32 | amiconn | 2MBit/s would *just even* be enough for hifi audio |
| 16:15:01 | amiconn | And Bluetooth 2.0 ifn't very common yet |
| 16:15:09 | amiconn | *isn't |
| 16:15:12 | intgr | 48000 Hz * 16 bits is a mere 96 kilobytes/s |
| 16:16:29 | intgr | Oh wait, double that for stereo. |
| 16:16:40 | intgr | So yeah, it's pretty close to the peak throughput. |
| 16:16:51 | bluebrother | ... and multiply it with 8 to get kbit/s |
| 16:17:05 | B4gder | bits at least |
| 16:17:28 | B4gder | and I bet the raw speed they count is not pure payload data |
| 16:17:41 | * | bluebrother hands out the missed s |
| 16:19:03 | gursikh | might be usefull with the next-gen bluetooth (wimedia bluetooth version) |
| 16:19:56 | bluebrother | oh, one could of course want to sync the mp3 mobile phone with the mp3 player ;-) |
| 16:20:17 | gursikh | or transfer data from laptop, etc. |
| 16:20:27 | intgr | But listening to music with hard drive in one pocket and MP3 player in the other would be kind of neat. |
| 16:20:46 | bluebrother | are there hard drives with only bluetooth attached available? |
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| 16:21:43 | B4gder | bluebrother: psp3 ;-) |
| 16:22:41 | bluebrother | anyway, there is always this tiny thing with the difference between technically possible and feasible |
| 16:22:52 | bluebrother | (or useful) |
| 16:23:50 | aliask | I can think of nowhere more likely than an open source project for that sort of thing to appear :P |
| 16:24:17 | B4gder | hehe |
| 16:24:25 | B4gder | "rubbish" as they say |
| 16:24:34 | bluebrother | the beautiness of open source ;-) |
| 16:24:44 | intgr | aliask: The masters of "optional feature" creep. :) |
| 16:25:11 | aliask | I think rockbox actually manages pretty well in terms of feature creep. |
| 16:25:49 | intgr | I wouldn't know, I haven't even attempted compiling it yet for my chip. ;) |
| 16:25:50 | linuxstb | If you exclude plugins... |
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| 16:26:38 | amiconn | Rockbox already has way too many features to be fully utilized by a single user |
| 16:27:05 | markun | I was watching the Google TechTalk "the paradox of choice why more is less" the other say |
| 16:27:07 | aliask | But the features we have would be used by more than one user. |
| 16:27:18 | markun | rockbox does exactly what this guy is telling us not to do :) |
| 16:27:41 | linuxstb | markun: He's suggesting a feature freeze? :) |
| 16:27:42 | B4gder | hehehe |
| 16:27:52 | markun | linuxstb: feature reduction :) |
| 16:28:03 | bluebrother | remove doom *g* |
| 16:28:11 | B4gder | you should watch that video with the subversion guys (on google) talking about identifying bad persons in open source projects |
| 16:28:23 | bluebrother | only problem is that doom is a plugin and not a feature ;-) |
| 16:28:27 | B4gder | since they mention a lot of stuff projects should do, and we do many of them... |
| 16:28:34 | markun | B4gder: I did and couldn't help thinking about Dongs :) |
| 16:28:34 | * | linuxstb would be happy with FLAC playback only, and no DSP effects or crossfade - a very simple playback engine... |
| 16:28:37 | * | amiconn could name several core features which could be removed in an instant based on his own usage patterns |
| 16:28:41 | B4gder | markun: haha |
| 16:29:01 | markun | also about some other people of which I don't remember the nicks |
| 16:29:11 | bluebrother | bad persons in projects? In what terms bad? |
| 16:29:19 | intgr | Well, what are the most obscure (core) features in Rockbox? |
| 16:29:26 | B4gder | bluebrother: in the terms we all would agree on ;-) |
| 16:29:40 | B4gder | its a good talk |
| 16:29:40 | linuxstb | intgr: What do you mean by obscure? Least-used? |
| 16:29:45 | intgr | linuxstb: Yeah. |
| 16:29:55 | bluebrother | where is it available? Google video? |
| 16:30:00 | intgr | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6127548813950043200&q=the+paradox+of+choice+why+more+is+less |
| 16:30:48 | B4gder | http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645 |
| 16:30:51 | linuxstb | intgr: I'm not sure how we could tell that. |
| 16:31:11 | markun | a negative docid.. |
| 16:31:18 | linuxstb | Unless we make a "big brother build" which logged usage |
| 16:31:22 | B4gder | ~55 minutes video |
| 16:31:36 | amiconn | My obsolete features list: crossfade, crossfeed, eq, most database features (those that go beyond simple artist/album/track browsing), replaygain, theme support |
| 16:31:40 | intgr | linuxstb: Well, just wondering. |
| 16:31:52 | amiconn | That list isn't complete, just what came to mind within a minute |
| 16:31:53 | intgr | amiconn: I find all of those pretty useful. |
| 16:32:04 | intgr | At least on desktop computers. |
| 16:32:12 | markun | "The Graphing Calculator Story" is also a nice talk |
| 16:32:22 | markun | about a guy working at Apple for a long time after he got fired |
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| 16:32:58 | intgr | Working for Apple after he got fired working for whom? |
| 16:33:13 | crop | amiconn: to continue the list: loadable icons and icons as such... |
| 16:33:13 | markun | amiconn: why did replaygain become obsolete? |
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| 16:34:03 | intgr | Themes per se aren't necessary, but I prefer the freedom to choose over a bad enforced theme. |
| 16:34:04 | bluebrother | ReplayGain is one of my favorite feature :o |
| 16:34:12 | markun | mine too |
| 16:34:35 | markun | so is crossfeed |
| 16:34:42 | intgr | Yeah, ReplayGain is more necessary than on desktops, since it is not always convenient to go after the volume button with each changing track. |
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| 16:35:10 | bluebrother | replaygain is quite convenient on the desktop too. |
| 16:35:11 | aliask | I don't quite understand, how do you get your music at all different volumes? I get most of my music from... uh... various sources, and I've never even considered replaygain. |
| 16:35:37 | bluebrother | I get my music from the original CDs, and they are recorded at quite different levels |
| 16:35:50 | markun | yes, mine too |
| 16:35:58 | badsheepy | specially older ones i find |
| 16:36:01 | markun | kraftwerk vs aphex twin |
| 16:36:04 | intgr | Recent CDs are usually tuned to the max, since "louder is better, who cares about clipped samples" |
| 16:39:24 | amiconn | markun: replaygain didn't become obsolete in general; this is a list of which features *I* deem obsolete |
| 16:39:30 | | Join cadu [0] (i=cadu___@ZL081167.ppp.dion.ne.jp) |
| 16:39:37 | amiconn | And I have no use fro replaygain... |
| 16:39:46 | cadu | hello guys, can't do bookmarking on gigabeat |
| 16:39:53 | cadu | simply doesn't shows stuff on bookmarking |
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| 16:48:34 | | Quit Rondom ("Ex-Chat") |
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| 16:50:29 | markun | cadu: let me try |
| 16:52:25 | markun | cadu: I just created a bookmark, stopped playback, loaded the bookmark and continued playing |
| 16:52:29 | markun | what's not working for you? |
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| 16:52:47 | cadu | how/where did you do it ? |
| 16:52:52 | cadu | what button or what menu ? |
| 16:53:09 | markun | cadu: long SELECT |
| 16:53:15 | markun | in the WPS |
| 16:53:26 | markun | then "bookmarks" |
| 16:53:29 | cadu | i'm on the gigabeat |
| 16:53:40 | markun | me too |
| 16:53:54 | cadu | Bookmarks > Create Bookmark, nothing happens |
| 16:54:04 | | Join oll1 [0] (n=olle@h16n1fls34o836.telia.com) |
| 16:54:13 | markun | I don't know what's wrong then |
| 16:54:21 | | Part oll1 |
| 16:54:36 | markun | and can you go back? |
| 16:55:19 | cadu | yeah |
| 16:55:25 | markun | did it work before? |
| 16:55:38 | cadu | pressing SELECT or RIGHT on Create Bookmark seems to have no effect |
| 16:55:40 | cadu | never worked |
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| 16:55:58 | amiconn | Are you playing from file tree or the database? |
| 16:56:28 | cadu | i always use the database |
| 16:56:30 | | Quit GodEater (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:56:36 | amiconn | markun? |
| 16:56:42 | markun | I always use the file tree :) |
| 16:56:50 | * | amiconn thinks bookmarks are only working when playing from file tree |
| 16:56:56 | cadu | hmmmm |
| 16:56:58 | cadu | lemme check |
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| 16:57:23 | cadu | i always use the database coz my files are well tagged, so it's quicker to find bands/albums using it |
| 16:57:46 | markun | my files are well tagged too, but I also have a good directory structure |
| 16:58:02 | cadu | me too :) it's quick too |
| 16:58:17 | cadu | but to create a quick playlist, i find the database the best feature out there :) |
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| 16:58:35 | cadu | and it's already loaded to RAM, so it's quicker too ;) |
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| 16:58:51 | markun | I have dircache on so it's quick too |
| 16:58:56 | desowin | you can load dircache ... |
| 16:59:13 | cadu | i know :) |
| 16:59:28 | markun | anyway, does it work from the file tree? |
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| 17:00 |
| 17:00:04 | DjHalfTon | whats up everyone |
| 17:00:19 | cadu | markun: worked :) |
| 17:00:34 | DjHalfTon | soo.. i have a quick question |
| 17:00:48 | cadu | markun: thanks |
| 17:00:53 | DjHalfTon | i have an alpine stereo in my car.. which works with the IPOD |
| 17:01:02 | cadu | why it doesn't works thru database ......? :'( |
| 17:01:28 | DjHalfTon | will it work with rockbox? |
| 17:02:14 | cadu | DjHalfTon: what you mean, you can control iPod with your stereo or it's just connected (audio out) to your stereo and you control it using the ipod itself ? |
| 17:02:15 | amiconn | cadu: Because nobody came up with a clever way to store the databased-created playlist along with the bookmark |
| 17:02:20 | bluebrother | sic ... what do you think about FS #7106? |
| 17:02:35 | * | amiconn wonders how this works for resume |
| 17:02:39 | | Quit Rondom ("Ex-Chat") |
| 17:02:52 | cadu | amiconn: a bookmark also saves the playlist it was on ?! |
| 17:03:01 | DjHalfTon | stereo controls IPOD sorry CADU |
| 17:03:04 | intgr | <markun> rockbox does exactly what this guy is telling us not to do :) |
| 17:03:05 | * | amiconn hopes for hardeep and/or Lear to show up and shed some light onto the issue |
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| 17:03:31 | intgr | Actually, the talk speaks about different variations of the same option competing, not about completely different features (yes/no decisions) |
| 17:03:37 | DjHalfTon | i can search ipod directly thru stereo |
| 17:03:41 | DjHalfTon | load playlists |
| 17:03:44 | DjHalfTon | see song names |
| 17:03:50 | cadu | intgr: what? database is evil ? |
| 17:03:54 | intgr | markun: So I think that speech in particular is not applicable in our situation |
| 17:03:57 | amiconn | cadu: Bookmarks store the exact playback state, i.e. the playlist and the position within it. Think of bookmarks as saved resume positions |
| 17:04:14 | intgr | cadu: Huh? I was responding to markun's comment half an hour ago. |
| 17:04:21 | cadu | oh, sorry :) |
| 17:05:36 | | Quit GodEater__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 17:07:03 | intgr | The choice of audio formats is the only relevant one, and there are very good reasons to have that choice. |
| 17:07:34 | linuxstb | DjHalfTon: No, that won't work with Rockbox. |
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| 17:13:54 | aliask | I'm trying to compile ipodpatcher on linux, but it looks like I'm missing something BLKSSZGET is not defined anywhere. |
| 17:15:35 | linuxstb | Which Linux? |
| 17:15:46 | aliask | Debian |
| 17:16:25 | linuxstb | Do you have a file /usr/include/sys/mount.h ? |
| 17:16:28 | NJoin | amigan [0] (i=dcp1990@unaffiliated/amigan) |
| 17:17:10 | NJoin | secleinteer [0] (n=secleint@70.230.167.11) |
| 17:17:10 | aliask | Yep, and BLKSSZGET is defined in there. |
| 17:17:27 | linuxstb | Then that's odd... |
| 17:18:26 | aliask | Can I just replace it with a static define? |
| 17:19:26 | linuxstb | What do you mean? define it how? |
| 17:20:10 | aliask | Like 512 |
| 17:20:40 | aliask | Or does that make no sense in that context. |
| 17:21:14 | linuxstb | You'll need to edit the part of the code that uses the define - just delete the call to that ioctl and hard-code the value to 512 if you know that's your ipod's sector size. |
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| 17:21:50 | aliask | It's a 4g of some description, would 512 be right? |
| 17:21:57 | bluebrother | maybe that file isn't part of the default include search path? |
| 17:22:27 | | Quit DjHalfTon () |
| 17:22:28 | linuxstb | aliask: Yes - only (some) video ipods have 2048 byte sectors. |
| 17:22:58 | linuxstb | bluebrother: ipodpatcher does #include <sys/mount.h> so I can't understand why it's not being included correctly... |
| 17:23:13 | linuxstb | If /usr/include wasn't in the search path, everything would break. |
| 17:23:14 | bluebrother | hmm. |
| 17:23:29 | aliask | And all the other defines work, just not that one. |
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| 17:23:41 | bluebrother | that makes it really strange, indeed. |
| 17:24:40 | linuxstb | aliask: BTW, you could just download the pre-build binary - assuming you're on x86 or amd64... |
| 17:24:54 | linuxstb | ^pre-built |
| 17:25:13 | aliask | I would, but I'm trying to make a build that will read a dump of the hdd rather than the hdd itself |
| 17:25:35 | linuxstb | Ah, so it's a runtime error you're talking about? |
| 17:25:49 | aliask | No, it won't compile. |
| 17:25:53 | bluebrother | huh? Can't you just pass ipodpatcher the "device" file? |
| 17:26:07 | linuxstb | bluebrother: You can - I did lots of testing that way. |
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| 17:26:18 | aliask | Oh... how? |
| 17:26:38 | linuxstb | You'll need to dump the whole disk, not just the firmware partition though... |
| 17:26:45 | aliask | Already done. |
| 17:27:03 | linuxstb | Then just use the filename instead of the device name. e.g. ipodpatcher mydump.bin |
| 17:27:30 | aliask | "File too large" :) |
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| 17:28:05 | linuxstb | Ah, OK... I added large file support to sansapatcher - I should backport it to ipodpatcher... |
| 17:28:28 | bluebrother | what's the difference in large file support? |
| 17:28:30 | linuxstb | On the sansa, the firmware partition is at the end of the disk - so most of the time further than 4GB in... |
| 17:28:30 | aliask | Can I just trim the end of the file? |
| 17:28:33 | bluebrother | setting a flag? |
| 17:29:11 | linuxstb | bluebrother: I can't remember the details, but it's trivial. |
| 17:29:38 | linuxstb | aliask: If you want to wait a few minutes, I'll try adding large-file support to ipodpatcher and you can test for me... |
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| 17:29:57 | aliask | Sure |
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| 17:35:24 | bluebrother | OT: does somebody know a command to split up a pdf file into its pages (as pdf as well)? |
| 17:35:36 | markun | Slasheri: accessing the hdd (like starting a song) while dircache is scanning in the background make rockbox very unresponsive on my Gigabeat. Anything we could do about it? |
| 17:36:09 | markun | bluebrother: pdftk |
| 17:36:10 | desowin | bluebrother: pdf from jpgs or normal pdf ? |
| 17:36:26 | linuxstb | aliask: OK, I think I'm done... Do you want a binary or a patch? |
| 17:36:53 | markun | bluebrother: I used it to cut some pages out of the Gigabeat manual for example. It can also do rotating and some other nice things. |
| 17:37:13 | bluebrother | markun: thanks, just looking at the man page. |
| 17:37:19 | bluebrother | just needed the name to look for ;-) |
| 17:37:29 | aliask | linuxstb: patch will be fine |
| 17:37:35 | markun | bluebrother: http://www.pdfhacks.com/pdftk/ |
| 17:37:39 | markun | ok |
| 17:38:26 | linuxstb | aliask: http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/ipodpatcher-largefile.diff |
| 17:40:09 | aliask | linuxstb: Still says the file is too large. |
| 17:41:57 | linuxstb | aliask: Out of curiousity, does sansapatcher give the same error? It won't modify the file, just tell you it's not an E200 and abort. |
| 17:42:39 | | Quit thegeek () |
| 17:43:05 | linuxstb | But to answer your earlier question, yes - you can just extract the first 50MB or so of the image - that's all ipodpatcher will modify on the 4g. |
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| 17:45:25 | aliask | linuxstb: Can't build sansapatcher either (different problem) are there any binaries I could use? |
| 17:46:30 | linuxstb | http://download.rockbox.org/bootloader/sandisk-sansa/e200/ |
| 17:47:39 | aliask | Yep, it says it's too large also - the file is almost 30gb. |
| 17:49:16 | linuxstb | That's odd... sansapatcher is known to work on 8GB files. |
| 17:49:47 | linuxstb | Or rather, to be able to seek by 8GB in a disk device.... |
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| 20:09:22 | AceNik__ | uys a quick questiion everytime we make a build & do make , n numerous files are created , do we need to preserve these files or delete them , cause the "make zip" gives us the build right ?, so should i presrerve these or delete |
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| 20:11:24 | GodEater_ | AceNik__: after you've moved the zip somewhere safe, do a "make clean" to get rid of those files |
| 20:11:45 | | Quit Rondom ("...") |
| 20:11:52 | AceNik__ | cant i just delete the files |
| 20:12:01 | amiconn | If you intend to make another build later, it's recommended to keep the files |
| 20:12:31 | amiconn | 'make' is clever and only remakes those intermediate files which depend on changed source files -> faster build |
| 20:12:44 | AceNik__ | my source is curently patched |
| 20:12:53 | amiconn | If you delete the intermediates, they all have to be recreated in the next build |
| 20:14:02 | AceNik__ | so please suggest what should i do , i try to maintain 2 source copies both , but always happen to modify the source to match svn agian , can i maintain a patched version too |
| 20:14:15 | amiconn | Why does that matter? |
| 20:14:27 | * | amiconn 's sources are almost never 100% svn |
| 20:14:44 | amiconn | You can just 'svn up' no matter whether your sources are patched |
| 20:15:11 | * | amiconn only keeps a single source tree most of the time, doing all his modifications there |
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| 20:15:34 | AceNik__ | what does make clean do , does it delete files not needed int he build directory or what should i do , if i want to compile faster or build faster next tiem |
| 20:15:45 | amiconn | Just keep the files around |
| 20:16:09 | amiconn | The next 'make' will replace those which need replacing, and reuse the others |
| 20:16:25 | AceNik__ | oh k cool thanks |
| 20:18:24 | amiconn | If you really want to get rid of the files 'make clean' will do that |
| 20:18:43 | | Quit Rick (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)) |
| 20:18:51 | amiconn | You can also wipe the whole build directory, but then you will have to configure again for the next build |
| 20:18:54 | AceNik__ | thanks |
| 20:19:28 | amiconn | ('make clean' keeps 'Makefile' and 'autoconf.h') |
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| 20:22:40 | * | bluebrother comes back and notices loads of misplaced spaces in this channel :o |
| 20:22:42 | spiorf | i just turned on my ipod nano, ant the whole screen is white, except for the icon, which are shown correctly |
| 20:23:46 | spiorf | and no, i don't have white text on white background |
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| 20:24:10 | amiconn | bluebrother? |
| 20:24:15 | bluebrother | yup |
| 20:25:29 | amiconn | misplaced spaces? |
| 20:25:51 | bluebrother | yes −− a space in front of a comma makes text hard(er) to read ;-) |
| 20:25:58 | amiconn | Ah, those |
| 20:26:08 | * | amiconn wonders where there are lots of those |
| 20:26:30 | amiconn | A few ones, yes... |
| 20:26:37 | amiconn | ...and not mine :) |
| 20:26:54 | bluebrother | no, not yours ;-) |
| 20:26:56 | Rincewind | better than no commas at all... |
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| 20:27:19 | bluebrother | depends on ... if the commas are set wrong I vote for no commas |
| 20:27:47 | Rincewind | amiconn: do you have a little time to look at my runtime scaling patch? |
| 20:27:56 | Rincewind | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7092 |
| 20:28:49 | Rincewind | I would like to know if you (and others) think that it can be included and if it would cause trouble on archos or not |
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| 20:33:19 | * | amiconn thinks the whole powermanagement needs to be redone |
| 20:34:07 | Rincewind | redoing the whole thing is way above my head... |
| 20:34:42 | AceNik___ | Aminconn: one more question suppose i got multiple patches in my build & can any of them go out of sync ? if no since the svn might update around them, then if i need to produce a patch from my diff for a particular patch how do i do that |
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| 20:39:46 | * | bluebrother doesn't understand this worm question |
| 20:39:55 | bluebrother | every patch can get out of sync ... |
| 20:41:15 | Rincewind | AceNik___: if you do a 'svn up' and a patch is out of sync, you see a smal 'C' (conflict) in front of the name of the file that got out of sync |
| 20:41:17 | * | bluebrother suggests AceNik__ trying the tab key |
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| 20:43:37 | Rincewind | AceNik___: if you have a conflict you can resolve it (that means changing the code yourself) or start all over again with a 'svn revert -R ./' |
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| 20:45:44 | AceNik___ | amiconn buddy did u get my previous question |
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| 22:10:15 | Nico_P | the "How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People" techtalk is very interesting :) |
| 22:11:04 | * | Bagder agrees |
| 22:12:18 | * | markun too |
| 22:12:18 | Nico_P | also about what amiconn said earlier about features he deemed obsolete... he forgot cuesheets :) |
| 22:15:26 | amiconn | Yes. I said this list isn't complete. I also made clear that this is my personal list of unneeded features, not that these features should be removed |
| 22:15:28 | Bagder | I think we benefit a great deal by the huge variety of people and opinions that we have in the project |
| 22:17:05 | amiconn | To me, cuesheets are such an odd concept that I didn't even think of them |
| 22:17:26 | amiconn | But then, since the feature is there, I made it work on hwcodec, even though I'll never actually use it... |
| 22:18:11 | * | amiconn thinks that features should work properly on as many targets as possible if they're there |
| 22:18:37 | pixelma | same with the scrobbler log... |
| 22:18:38 | Bagder | indeed |
| 22:18:53 | amiconn | Yes, and the scrobbler log does *not* work properly |
| 22:19:22 | pixelma | that's what I meant |
| 22:19:24 | amiconn | From what I hear, it doesn't even work properly on swcodec yet, and so I made no effort to make it work properly on hwcodec either |
| 22:19:57 | amiconn | I also have no real idea how to test it, other than looking at the logfile(s) |
| 22:20:45 | amiconn | On hwcodec, most of the time simply nothing is written to the log, no matter how many tracks/albums one is listening to |
| 22:21:25 | pixelma | except once in a while it magically appears (even for a few folders) |
| 22:21:42 | amiconn | But all of a sudden it happens that a few tracks get logged, or even a few albums |
| 22:22:02 | amiconn | The condition when this happens is a mystery... |
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| 22:32:29 | preglow | amiconn: "obsolete" kind of implies you used them at some point, and i suspect you've never used many of the features in that list ;) |
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| 22:34:45 | preglow | hmm, i don't use any of those myself either |
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| 22:36:50 | preglow | and i've coded two of them, heh |
| 22:37:10 | Nico_P | preglow: which ones ? |
| 22:37:16 | preglow | eq and crossfeed |
| 22:37:46 | Nico_P | ok |
| 22:40:28 | pixelma | for some reason my impression of the sound crossfeed produces (on M5) is that the higher mid frequencies get lost - could that be? |
| 22:43:06 | preglow | hmm, not as a whole, no |
| 22:43:21 | preglow | some (narrow) freq ranges will be somewhat attenuated due to the distance simulation |
| 22:43:23 | amiconn | To me, crossfeed just makes the sound less precise. With speakers (I know that's not the intended use) it also increases bass |
| 22:43:27 | preglow | but that's quite natural |
| 22:43:37 | preglow | pixelma: but anyway, you're supposed to tweak it :) |
| 22:43:58 | amiconn | That's all - I don't hear any other effect |
| 22:44:07 | markun | amiconn: I think it's quite logical that it increases bass |
| 22:44:14 | preglow | indeed, but you can tweak that away |
| 22:44:32 | pixelma | preglow: what should I tweak? |
| 22:44:52 | preglow | pixelma: not easy to say, the effect varies from person to person |
| 22:45:15 | preglow | the higher mid freqs shouldn't _really_ be lost, it might just sound like it |
| 22:45:34 | preglow | amiconn: tried it with recordings that will benefit from it, though? |
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| 22:45:41 | pixelma | well, easier to just switch it off :P |
| 22:45:44 | preglow | amiconn: crossfeed quite naturally narrows the stereo field down, it's the intended effect |
| 22:45:47 | preglow | pixelma: indeed |
| 22:45:57 | preglow | i never use it myself, unless listening to 60s/70s records |
| 22:46:03 | preglow | which isn't often these days |
| 22:46:16 | amiconn | I could narrow the stereo field with stereo width if desired. |
| 22:46:28 | amiconn | I usually do quite the opposite though |
| 22:46:38 | preglow | amiconn: not the same thing when you're dealing with hardpanned music |
| 22:46:43 | amiconn | Stereo width has the advantage that it doesn't reduce sound precision |
| 22:47:06 | preglow | for you, perhaps |
| 22:47:20 | preglow | problem with crossfeed is it depends on psychoacoustics |
| 22:47:28 | preglow | so not very easy to discuss, heh |
| 22:47:53 | amiconn | probably |
| 22:48:02 | pixelma | maybe the reduced precision is where my impression comes from |
| 22:48:09 | amiconn | I don't have any 60s recordings as I don't like the music of that time |
| 22:48:29 | preglow | i've got a bunch of old jethro tull records that benefit from it |
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| 22:48:31 | preglow | old beatles |
| 22:48:32 | preglow | old jazz |
| 22:48:52 | preglow | but no, not much |
| 22:49:45 | amiconn | But if you mean stuff that's panned 100% left or right - I don't see the problem with that |
| 22:49:57 | preglow | it's irritating to listen to |
| 22:49:58 | preglow | really |
| 22:50:00 | amiconn | All the 4 channel amiga mods do that... |
| 22:50:10 | preglow | indeed, and they're a pain in the ass to listen to on headphones |
| 22:50:13 | * | amiconn doesn't find that irritating at all |
| 22:50:21 | preglow | then you don't need crossfeed :) |
| 22:50:26 | Soap | why would you use crossfeed with 60's records? |
| 22:50:37 | preglow | Soap: because many instruments are hardpanned to one of the channels |
| 22:50:48 | preglow | Soap: which gives a very weird stereo image with headphones |
| 22:50:58 | Soap | ahh, for "aesthetics", not artistic intent? |
| 22:51:33 | preglow | it's really just to make nicer sound if you don't like hard panning |
| 22:51:45 | Soap | when you said 60's, I was just thinking about how you used to be able to buy records mastered for headphone listening, now all assume speakers. |
| 22:51:54 | preglow | ah, did you know |
| 22:52:01 | preglow | never encountered that |
| 22:52:41 | Soap | you used to be able to get stereophonic and binaural pressings of some albums. |
| 22:52:53 | preglow | ahh, yeah, binaural releases i've heard about |
| 22:53:04 | markun | Soap: and did you like the sound? |
| 22:53:13 | Soap | which sound? |
| 22:53:20 | preglow | binaural processing in rockbox might happen in the future |
| 22:53:34 | markun | Soap: of a binaural recording using headphones |
| 22:54:06 | Soap | markun: yes |
| 22:54:22 | Soap | I will send you a plaster model of my head for the modeling preglow. |
| 22:54:34 | preglow | you could save time and just send the head |
| 22:54:43 | * | markun has a deja-vu |
| 22:54:44 | preglow | i'll post it back to your body when finished with it |
| 22:55:26 | Soap | now here is where I am getting confused (and reading as we speak) - I thought crossfeed was the larger part of binaural processing... |
| 22:55:39 | preglow | kind of |
| 22:55:51 | preglow | crossfeed is binaural processing in a way, but with really cheap filters |
| 22:56:04 | preglow | in an ideal world, the dap would measure your heads frequency response and use that |
| 22:56:11 | preglow | we don't do that for obvious reasons :> |
| 22:57:58 | markun | and hopefully we can come up with something to simulate 2 speakers in the back as well |
| 22:59:17 | Soap | How CPU intensive will that be? Or is the CPU cost pretty directly related to the filter quality? |
| 22:59:50 | preglow | it is, but hrtf (head-related transfer function) filters aren't really that long |
| 22:59:54 | preglow | but still long enough to be costly |
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| 23:00:07 | preglow | and you can't really compromise on the quality either, they need to be full length |
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icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).