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#rockbox log for 2007-05-15

00:00:24chrisjs169yeah, well, not even all the builds would need to be recompiled, just check to see which are there and re-assign ones that haven't completed in 15 mins or so
00:00:46preglowfixing the bugs in the build master script would of course be the coolest :>
00:01:16jhMikeSit it _usually_ (or always) an issue with the build master waiting for a build to be sent back?
00:01:27chrisjs169i think so...
00:01:44 Part ac_2
00:01:46chrisjs169although i always thought that the build master goes and 'picks up the builds'
00:02:25jhMikeSI asked about timeout and Bagder said something about a problem with implementing things that way...wasn't too specific though
00:03:25 Join zivan56 [0] (i=402e05dc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:04:01chrisjs169i think that the way it checks for failed builds needs to be also include builds that aren't completing fast enough
00:05:12zivan56does anybody know what GPIO E/J/L do on the sansa? can someone confirm they change rapidly in the debug screen?
00:05:29chrisjs169zivan56: let me get my sansa - hold on
00:05:30jhMikeSzivan56: sure...what are you looking for?
00:05:59zivan56not sure myself, just want to see if it is radio related
00:06:18chrisjs169E, J, L, all change relatively fast
00:06:59zivan56hmm, wonder what they do
00:07:22chrisjs169C also seems to change about once a second
00:08:29zivan56yes, same here, but it just stopped at 0xFC
00:08:44jhMikeSI also suspect another interrupt that counts as a GPIO interrupt but have no idea where to look as it's preventing using GPIO IRQs properly. Frankly we should have little need for tick tasks.
00:10:23zivan56the radio chip can generate interrupts as well
00:10:40zivan56although i'd rather not deal with that for now
00:10:54zivan56but reading/writing seems to work, it's just the order that doesn't :P
00:10:58jhMikeSmost can, but it it's interrupt pin on one of the standard GPIO ports or elsewhere?
00:11:14zivan56yes, GPIOH
00:11:30zivan56it only has 3 communication wires, all connected to GPIOH
00:11:47zivan56pin 3/4/5
00:11:52jhMikeSok, I've masked all GPIO and I know those aren't generating the continuous irq
00:12:37jhMikeSbut something else must be logically ORed into the GPIO irq handler
00:12:37zivan56hmm, so what is?
00:14:21jhMikeSWith all GPIOs masked, and GPIO IRQs enabled, GPIO interrupts are still being sent and it locks the player because this mystery GPIO IRQ is never acked
00:14:54zivan56hmm, strange
00:14:55 Join colezy9 [0] (
00:15:16chrisjs169is it just my sansa/eyes, or do E/J/L flash faster when you insert a usb cable?
00:15:34 Join __IRCMonkey____ [0] (
00:16:13colezy9hey guys, ive read up on the gigabeat, but one question stiill. Do I need the craddle to install the rockbox firmware or can I plug directly in to the gigabeat?
00:16:16 Part Domonoky_
00:16:21 Join gursikh [0] (n=khalsa@unaffiliated/gursikh)
00:16:38zivan56yes, they appear to change faster
00:17:23jhMikeSnot just your settles down a bit in a couple seconds
00:17:43 Quit obo ("bye")
00:17:54 Quit blithe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:17:59bluebrothercolezy9, you should not use the cradle when installing Rockbox
00:18:09colezy9ok thanks
00:18:13bluebrotherthere is also a hint in the manual since a couple of days on that
00:18:26bluebrotherusing the cradle might give you trouble when installing
00:18:57colezy9ok thank you
00:20:54jhMikeScould be that the screen is just getting updated more and those ports are already changing fast :\
00:20:55zivan56so that is probably the usb host probing the device?
00:21:21austriancoderMIG: ping
00:23:05austriancoderzivan56: hi
00:23:25 Quit hostf4cekilla ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
00:24:05 Join linuxstb_ [0] (i=5343d4aa@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
00:24:09chrisjs169zivan56: i think I need to look at something other than changing numbers/letters, but does it still speed up even if the usb cable isn't connected to the computer?
00:25:17zivan56chrisjs169: its approx the same speed, maybe a bit faster...i didn't really look too much into it
00:26:04chrisjs169zivan56: ok, just trying to see what speeds it up/slows it down
00:26:17 Quit colezy9 ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
00:27:36zivan56this is probaly a stupid question, but would ~(1<<x) be the same as (0<<x) or would it invert every bit before x?
00:28:12linuxstb_0<<x is always zero.
00:29:04zivan56ok, but what would the not operator accomplish when put in as above
00:29:19 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@
00:29:26linuxstb_It would make every bit 1 apart from the xth bit.
00:29:58zivan56ah, I see, thought so as well
00:30:33 Join __IRCMonkey_____ [0] (
00:31:21zivan56austriancoder: I got line1 in enabled, but I had to set gain to max in order to hear anything from the I am trying to figure out why
00:32:02zivan56with that much gain, i wouldn't be surprised if the radio wasn't even connected to line1, maybe it's picking up some other line
00:32:15austriancoderzivan56: could you show me your changes to as3514 code?
00:32:29austriancoderzivan56: have you tryied mic1/2 linein2?
00:32:41 Quit __IRCMonkey__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:32:43 Nick __IRCMonkey_____ is now known as __IRCMonkey__ (
00:33:32zivan56yes, i got mic1 working without problems, really loud as well
00:33:49zivan56line2/mic2 produces absolute silence
00:34:58 Quit gursikh ("Leaving")
00:35:20zivan56as3514_write(AUDIOSET1, 0xF4); /* enable line in1 */ set ADC_R=0x9F ADC_L=0xDE LINE_IN1_R = 0x3E, LINE_IN2_L = 0xBE
00:35:34austriancoderzivan56: okay.. could it be that fm chip is not connected analog but digital?
00:36:24zivan56well the radio has 2 output L and R
00:36:54zivan56 look at the block diagram
00:37:10zivan56there are some other pins, MPX ?
00:37:58jhMikeSaustriancoder: any idea why reading back AS3514 registers after a reset usually shows some garbage and not their documented reset values?
00:39:23MIGHey austriancoder
00:39:50austriancoderjhMikeS: not realy.. I also dont understand/know, why original fw sounds so good and rockbox not.. I tried many mixer/headphoneoutput gain settings.. but.. hmmm
00:39:55austriancoderMIG: Hi
00:40:13 Quit __IRCMonkey__ ("Chatzilla [SeaMonkey 1.1.1/2007022206]")
00:40:50MIGI basically just starting this device programming class and I am trying to understand the problems with why there isn't a usb driver for the ipod and other hardware mp3 players yet.
00:41:18MIGbecause we soon have to decide on a device that we want to make a driver for, or what device we want to make a driver more efficient for
00:41:18linuxstb_MIG: Simply because it's a big job and no-one has tackled it yet.
00:41:32austriancoderzivan56: okay.. it must be line in in as3514.. mybe you need to enable some gpio pins
00:41:43MIGI see. My understanding is that, of course, there is no documentation for the ipod
00:42:06jhMikeSaustriancoder: it looks like somethings trashing the regs somehow, somewhere. Also, rockbox seems to sound better than OF when it happens to boot without the tinniness.
00:42:07MIGis this the biggest hurdle to overcome first, to find out how the hardware works ?
00:42:19linuxstb_No, we have documentation for the USB hardware in the ipod - it's been discovered that it's the same USB hardware as in a documented chip.
00:42:27 Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:42:38 Quit zivan56 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
00:42:59jhMikeSlinuxstb_: but it's embedded in a pp package? I had a suspicion that things like that might come up.
00:43:15MIGok, just so I am on the same page. Are we talking about the ipod or another device?
00:43:31linuxstb_jhMikeS: Yes, the PP USB seems to be the same as the iMX.31 (IIRC)
00:43:56linuxstb_MIG: I'm talking about the PP502x (the chip in the ipods)
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00:44:19jhMikeShehe...I'll bet most of the PP chips are just glue for some documented stuff
00:44:31linuxstb_It seems to be that way...
00:44:44zivan56austriancoder: there is nothing to suggest it, however, they may have set up a "mute" of sorts for fm
00:44:55linuxstb_A fair amount of the PP5024 seems to be from AMS (shame they haven't published their docs though)
00:45:19stripwaxHi. Is there any on-target info to show how much time is used by each thread? e.g. how much of the processor load is coming from the Scroll thread as opposed to codec thread, etc
00:45:30MIGMy situation is this. In my class we have 3 weeks to learn about device drivers and the kernel, then 3 weeks to develop a working prototype of a driver for a chosen device. If we do not complete this prototype then we most likley fail. This would be an interesting project but I am just not sure how much time it would take. Probably more than 3-6 weeks though :)
00:45:37austriancoderlinuxstb_: as far as i know only powermgt and audio codec
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00:46:01 Quit Psilonaut (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:46:16linuxstb_austriancoder: Yes, that's a fair amount though. The CPU cores are standard ARM, so it doesn't leave that much.
00:46:24jhMikeSwell, since we have a report with them...perhaps they'd be so kind. IMO handing out one doc is a test which if we honour our agreements could perhaps lead to more sharing.
00:46:32stripwaxlinuxstb_ - does the dma info in the sansa doc apply to any other portalplayer devices by any chance?
00:47:16linuxstb_stripwax: I would expect so, but I don't think anyone has successfully implemented DMA yet on the PP5024.
00:47:32 Part TrueJournals
00:47:37austriancoderMIG: so.. you want to write an usb driver for rockbox or linux?
00:47:38stripwaxlinuxstb_ - ok, ta.
00:48:34linuxstb_MIG: I'm pretty sure a iMX.31 USB driver already exists for Linux.
00:48:37 Quit __IRCMonkey____ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:48:52MIGaustriancoder I guess I do not have a good understanding of rockbox yet. I thought that rockbox was a modified version of the linux kernel?
00:49:13austriancoderMIG: no.. rockbox has nothing to do with linux
00:49:15linuxstb_MIG: No, Rockbox was written from scratch.
00:49:15MIGOr is it more like podzilla, an application running on a custom linux kernel ?
00:49:39MIGok, I have to say I haven't read much about rockbox. I've only read a bit about ipodlinux
00:50:12stripwaxMIG - the rockbox kernel is the rockbox kernel. it is not linux.
00:50:25linuxstb_MIG: Rockbox ran on many devices before the ipods, but when it was ported to the ipods, the ipodlinux source code was used as a reference, and various drivers were ported from ipodlinux to Rockbox.
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00:50:42***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:50:55austriancoderjhMikeS: any idea how to solve channel switching of audio?
00:51:03MIGthen I would be wanting to write the driver for linux, because of the constraints of the class that I am taking.
00:51:32MIGBut, if other drivers have been ported from ipodlinux to rockbox I could see the same thing happening with the usb driver
00:52:17linuxstb_USB is more complex as there is the entire Linux USB stack sitting on top of the low-level driver.
00:52:23 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
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00:52:45MIGI see
00:53:06zivan56hmm, i am wondering, according to the FM datasheet it says change a register to some value (ex 10111010) and says for example change bit 3 to high and then low, but it doesn't say anything about keeping the rest of them
00:53:11MIGIs usbnet the "low-level" driver in linux ?
00:53:20zivan56err bit 2
00:53:53zivan56i assume it would keep those in the chip...?
00:54:01austriancoderzivan56: keep the rest as it is and only change the defined bit
00:54:18jhMikeSaustriancoder: I'm not really super sure why it switches. Are cache invalidates a big cycle burner?
00:54:38 Join Hilikus [0] (
00:54:48jhMikeSor flushes rather
00:55:18 Quit bluebrother ("Leaving")
00:55:27zivan56austriancoder: but then one of the registers controls a reset, so i would be resetting it again
00:55:34zivan56i mean bits
00:55:38austriancoderjhMikeS: dont know... needs trying i would say..
00:56:12zivan56so looks like i need to cache all the values written to them, and there is no clear indicator when to clear them
00:57:07jhMikeSit seems like around 1/2 LRCLK cycle passes and throws the writes out of phase
00:58:32 Part pixelma
00:59:03austriancoderjhMikeS: okay.. now i understand tonis patch better... he only does invalidation of caches in lcd driver, when no audio is played
00:59:06amiconnjhMikeS: Why does that only happen on sansa?
00:59:15amiconnIs the interface different in some way?
00:59:50jhMikeSamiconn: I really don't know but the audio codec uses different bits
01:00:26jhMikeSPerhaps an auto sync feature is disabled on sansa
01:00:39MIGbrowsing the kernel source for "usb", it does seem like a lot of work :(
01:01:40 Quit zivan56 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:02:58MIGAside from the usb development, do you guys know of any hardware that might need drivers written for it in linux ?
01:03:13 Join zivan56 [0] (i=402e05dc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:03:59linuxstb_MIG: #rockbox isn't the channel to be asking about Linux in...
01:04:06jhMikeSwe're using FIFO_FORMAT_32LSB and it says "other formats not yet known" but I'm guessing it's the usual ones :\
01:04:57MIGit was more of a general question, I figured that you guys have done driver development before and might know the seen
01:04:59jhMikeSI should just try a bunch and see if it can use L-R pairs
01:05:32MIGThanks for explaining the development so far to me though
01:05:33 Part Hilikus
01:05:46austriancoderno problem..
01:06:06MIGseen = scene
01:08:29 Quit robin0800 (" HydraIRC -> <- Would you like to know more?")
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01:09:03*chrisjs169 notices it's been one and a half hours and the builds still aren't up...
01:10:09 Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
01:10:14*linuxstb_ notices it's 1.10am in Sweden so that's unlikely to change
01:10:18n1schrisjs169: everyone with access is asleep or on vacation
01:10:33chrisjs169n1s: i know =/
01:10:39 Quit juxtap (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:10:49*n1s also notices that it is 1.10 am and should go to bed.
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01:16:11 Part n1s
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01:18:34 Part TrueJournals
01:20:48 Quit zivan56 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
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01:21:18shing`After I installed rockbox, my computer freezes when I connect my ipod to it, how can i fix this?
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01:23:11skyfallerhey folks... does anyone know of anything like Rockbox for the iPod shuffle?
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01:24:58 Quit gromit` ("Coyote finally caught me")
01:25:04colezy9anyone using any cools themes for gigabeat? what do u recommend
01:28:27jhMikeSwe can definitely send stereo pairs
01:29:02 Part shing`
01:29:11austriancoderjhMikeS: but...
01:29:23jhMikeSyeah, but...that what I'm working on :)
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01:42:49colezy9whats the best plugin for video on gigabeat f40
01:44:33austriancodercolezy9: there is only one plugin mpeg2player
01:44:53 Quit MIG ()
01:45:31colezy9ok thx, i heard rumor that vlc could be installed, i guess that isnt correct
01:48:29ChrononPeople use VLC to transcode videos to the proper format for mpegplayer
01:48:45chrisjs169i see that disable_rebuild is in sansa, but how can I force it to execute it every time the OF is loaded, not just when USB is inserted?
01:48:58chrisjs169*is is main-pp.c (for sansa)
01:50:57austriancodergood night all.. time to go to bed
01:51:58 Quit austriancoder ("Kopete 0.12.4 :")
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01:56:29 Quit moos ("Glory to Rockbox")
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02:01:49colezy9anyone have a link to where i install a theme on my Toshiba f40
02:02:04scorchein the wiki
02:02:47colezy9in the manual ? the wiki
02:04:58colezy9well i don't see themes in there
02:05:12scorchelook harder
02:05:15warewolfhm, no linus
02:05:17scorchewe call them WPSs
02:05:36warewolfanyone here work on the bootloader for iriver h3xx?
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02:06:05*warewolf is curious if there is any plan to get rockbox firmware to boot when external power is supplied −− eg, the +5v cable, not usb
02:06:44colezy9<scorche> ive been looking hard already, else i wouldn't have asked
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02:07:29 Part TrueJournals
02:07:34scorchecolezy9: a link to them is on the page you get when you click on "wiki" on the sidebar
02:07:35colezy9i know how these rooms work and that usually with research it can be found, but I can't find it
02:09:05colezy9if they are called WPS then I found it
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02:09:24scorche"<scorche> we call them WPSs"
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02:12:34colezy9ok i get ya
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02:18:33colezy9so i am unsure how to load the file propperly on to my gigabeat
02:18:53colezy9put it in the required dirs but can't use it for some reason
02:19:59 Quit Chronon ()
02:21:17colezy9nm figured it out
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02:32:08colezy9ok i need to load music into rockbox, do i need to put it in a special dir?
02:33:52element_gcolezy:no , rockbox will see your music wherever you stick it. although I prefer this:
02:33:56 Join gromit` [0] (
02:34:17scorchecolezy9: please read the will answer these questions and more
02:34:23colezy9well i create a folder in root called MP3 and it won't see it
02:34:35colezy9i did read the manual
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02:37:56element_gcolezy9_: which type of files are you showing?
02:38:28saratoga3are you looking at the database instead of the file browser?
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02:42:56 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
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02:44:30 Quit Rincewind ("Cya")
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02:50:43***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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02:51:39zivan56well I got rid of the LCD buzz and got the FM input just a tiny bit louder
02:52:19zivan56(for the sansa fm tuner)
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02:59:05 Part element_g ("Kopete 0.12.4 :")
03:01:13 Join LAPS [0] (
03:01:28LAPShello all
03:01:54LAPSwhere is the rockbox source tarball download?
03:02:19LAPS* nvm
03:02:22LAPSfound it
03:02:28LAPSty though
03:02:30LAPSc ya
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04:14:32Robjo8can someone pm me and help me get rockbox on my ipod
04:14:33Robjo8can someone pm me and help me get rockbox on my ipod
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04:14:49Robjo8can someone pm me and help me get rockbox on my ipod plz
04:15:21Robjo8can someone pm me and help me get rockbox on my ipod plz
04:15:21Robjo8can someone pm me and help me get rockbox on my ipod plz
04:15:35BHSPitMonkeyRobjo8, please 1) Don't repeat yourself, 2) Read the well-documented resources on the rockbox site, and 3) Ask a specific question if you even have one.
04:15:37Mode"#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
04:15:49Kick(#rockbox Robjo8 :no and read the manual) by scorche!i=scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche
04:16:09BHSPitMonkey... and 4) Don't let the door hit you on the way out :P
04:16:39scorchei dont appreciate spammers and have no incentive to help them if they are going to be like that
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04:52:29Shadetreehey uys
04:52:51Shadetreewoudln't you now it. After I ordered a subpack for my X5L I find mine lol
04:52:56Shadetreeleast I'll have an extra
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05:35:34aliaskhey there
05:35:54btdubsDoes anyone know how to troubleshoot this? " region PLUGIN_RAM is full"
05:36:01btdubsI'm trying to compile a custom build
05:36:12btdubsand, well, it appears that the plugin ram thingy is too small
05:36:29aliaskAre you compiling from the latest SVN?
05:37:05*aliask thought that this had been fixed
05:37:29btdubsI see
05:37:51aliaskWhich files are not compiling properly?
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05:38:45btdubsis the entire readout
05:39:00btdubs−−−−> /usr/local/arm-elf/lib/gcc/arm-elf/4.0.3/../../../../arm-elf/bin/ld: region PLUGIN_RAM is full (/home/scott/rockbox/build/apps/plugins/doom/doom.elf section .bss)
05:39:47webguest44i have a really simple question... but i cant seem to figure out how to make playlists on my h10 5gb...
05:40:48aliaskbtdubs: This is a slightly different thing than I was expecting, but it's a linker issue. I'll take a look and see if I can find anything
05:41:33aliaskwebguest44: Browse to a file that you want to add to a playlist, hold select on it, and use the playlist submenu.
05:43:08aliaskNo worries. :)
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05:43:33aliaskbtdubs: What changes have you made to the source?
05:44:08btdubsi tried adding the "doom cheat" patch
05:44:25aliaskOk, that will be causing it.
05:44:38btdubslaundry list the rest or is the one aforementioned good enough?
05:44:39aliaskDoom is VERY close to being too big for the plugin buffer as it is
05:44:54aliaskAnd adding the patch must have pushed it over the limit
05:45:05btdubsAnyway to increase the limit?
05:45:28aliaskChecking that now.
05:49:31aliaskEditing the PLUGIN_BUFFER_SIZE define in firmware/export/config-_______.h should be your answer
05:49:40aliaskYou probably won't need to increase it too much.
05:50:30btdubsthanks a bunch
05:50:43aliaskDon't thank me unless it works :P
05:50:55btdubson a side note
05:50:56btdubsOhh and btw i found a bug
05:51:13aliaskWhat's that?
05:51:18btdubsif you play solitare and you're concurrently playing music
05:51:23btdubsand you're on random
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05:51:42btdubsand the song changes to a different album (ie different directory shuffle)
05:51:55btdubsthe player locks up and errors "cannot find directory"
05:52:11aliaskUsing the random folder advance feature?
05:52:29btdubsreproducible bug
05:52:45btdubsthe harddrive spins non-stop
05:53:02btdubsif you exit solitare the player instantly shuffles to the next song
05:53:12aliaskSo it only happens in solitaire?
05:53:22btdubsand if not you get the equivalent of windows "blue screen of death" on your player
05:53:36btdubsnot sure.
05:54:10btdubshowever, music transitions flawlessly if the next song is in the same direcctory
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06:00:53btdubsso "0x80000" is the allocated ram.
06:00:59btdubswhat's a larger value?
06:01:22btdubsohhh. lol.
06:01:35aliaskBut you might consider something 0x80100 might be enough
06:01:49aliaskEr, change that sentence so it makes sense
06:01:57btdubsif 0x80000 is 512k is 0x80100 ~550k?
06:02:51aliask512.25 if my calculations are correct.
06:03:31btdubsMy mistake, I forgot that everyone here is not a native English speaker
06:03:58aliaskI don't know how much difference the patched made, 80100 might not be enough, but on the other hand it might.
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06:34:29btdubsaliask: thanks a bunch, your suggestion worked.
06:35:04aliaskI'm working on that bug in the random folder advance too, hopefully I'll get something soon.
06:35:47btdubsCool, so you got it to reproduce (the bug)
06:37:45btdubsI don't think the doom patch I applied work, but that's Ok.
06:38:09btdubsI ended up upping the plugin buffer to 2 megs. Now I can play gameboy color games and listen to music =]
06:38:54aliaskJust remember that the ram has to come from the audio buffer, so you'll reduce your battery life by upping it so much.
06:40:20btdubsI have the shuffle setting on. Most of my directories have only a few songs in it. I think ~30megs is plenty to buffer everything int he directory and have more to spare
06:41:06btdubsAlthough it's a shame that the shuffle doesn't pre-shuffle and buffer the next upcoming tracks from different directories =/
06:43:18btdubsUnless, I'm mistaken−−which is a distinct possibility because I'm not too familiar of rockbox's framework
06:43:26btdubsAnyhow, thanks a bunch for your help! =]
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06:45:13btdubs...and on a sidenote perhaps it's psychological, but rockboy seems to be running faster now (with the added ram)
06:45:38btdubsthere's no hit to the FPS with music playing
06:46:08btdubsAnd no annoying gameboy music which doesn't playback realtime
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07:25:25aliaskAh, fixed that bug
07:25:40aliaskSupprised it hadn't been noticed earlier.
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08:18:10amiconnLinusN: Build is hanging for ~13.5 hours now....
08:21:43*amiconn exaggerated 1 hour
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08:31:52JdGordonwould there be any objection to commiting the sdcard patch (once its more finished) if it means disableing dircache and ramcache on he sansa?
08:32:45JdGordon... and after its in, would it be ok to get the bootloader to check for rockbox.mi4 on the sdcard before the hard disk?
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08:34:04aliaskCool idea, different builds of rockbox on different sdcards
08:34:44JdGordonwell, I was thinking more faster tsting because the sdcard conncts to the comp so much faster than the sansa
08:35:44JdGordonit would still use the /.rockbox/ files thuogh
08:36:01aliaskAh, good point.
08:36:39JdGordonthat could actually possibly be fixed though
08:36:59JdGordonas long as ROCKBOX_DIR is changed t a variable instead of a define
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08:42:05amiconnLinusN: Hanging again, it seems...
08:43:29amiconnJdGordon: Does dircache not work well with multivolume + hotswap?
08:43:38*amiconn suspects that this is the case
08:44:03JdGordonits not coded up o work at all with multivolume
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08:46:28JdGordondircache.c is full of IF_MV2(volume,) 's where volume is not setup or even declared
08:47:02JdGordonI'm not sure why ramcache is disabled though
08:48:16JdGordonramcache from now on is ramdb...
08:48:18amiconnBecause it needs dircache...
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08:48:30JdGordonI thought that was removed?
08:48:46LinusNamiconn: looks like the speculative building has gone haywire
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08:49:07amiconnI don't see a problem with disabling dircache on the sansa even though I don't have one, since the sansa is flash based there shouldn't be spinup delays while browsing
08:49:17LinusNit's building like crazy
08:49:19JdGordonthats what I rekon also
08:49:35JdGordonI did a commit a few min ago...
08:49:39amiconnBut ramcache gives some extra features that people might like
08:49:48*amiconn pings Slasheri
08:49:59LloreanYeah, disabling dircache on Sansa doesn't bother me in the slightest either.
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08:50:23LloreanBesides its use for database, the option has no point on flash based targets, does it?
08:50:31amiconnIt would be nice if dircahce can be made to work with multivolume + hotswap. It doesn't need to cache hotswapped volumes, but the fixed ones
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08:50:54amiconnOtherwise we will have to disable dircache on several targets once we get usbotg going
08:51:42LloreanWhat about database for multivolume? It makes sense with the SD cards, but not so much (to me at least) for USB-otg
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08:56:12pondlifeJdGordon: I've done a little wiki editing responding to your "sleepy notes" :)
08:57:50pondlifeback in a bit.
08:58:15JdGordonLlorean: what might b nice is having a seperate db on the actual card
08:58:43JdGordonas for dircache on the external cards, couldnt it pass file calls straight to the FAT driver?
08:58:53amiconnThe same problem exists for the Ondio, but was simply ignored until now...
08:59:08amiconn(database + swappable cards)
09:00:08LloreanJdGordon: A separate DB makes sense, but it would have to be able to commit and use this db without restarting so you can hot-swap them. Maybe disable loading the dB to RAM from the cards? Doesn't make too much of a difference since they're flash anyway, right?
09:00:26amiconnIf you build a database, it will simply contain everything that's accessible. If a card is plugged, it will contain all tracks from internal flash + external card
09:01:40LloreanI guess it wouldn't work well having separate databases since you want to look in a Genre and see all the songs in that genre, not just those on the internal or external storage. =/
09:03:45amiconnWell, [IDC]Dragon was working on using the actual volume name as the name shown in the browser for the external card
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09:04:09amiconnIf this works, one could incrementally add all his/her cards to the db
09:04:14JdGordonthat would be nicer than <MMC> or <mSD>
09:04:35JdGordonhow does the database handle multiple files with the same tags?
09:04:43LloreanThen the dB could just check the volume name of the card, and use that as a filter to prevent display of any other external-storage entries?
09:05:04amiconnThe db would have to get a volume name field
09:05:11amiconnLlorean: Yes, that sounds like a nice idea
09:05:31amiconnThe only problem is that a volume name isn't mandatory for FAT
09:05:44aliaskAnd it invalidates all the data if you rename the drive.
09:05:53JdGordondo the cards have a guid? or uuid?
09:06:12amiconnPlus the volume name can be changed by the user, and there can be identical names
09:06:31LloreanWhy don't we skip the volume name then?
09:06:34amiconnThere is a 32 bit 'volume id' with might be unique enough
09:06:41LloreanCreate a simple .rbdatabase file with some sort of unique identifier on the device?
09:07:15 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:07:20LloreanJust a single number we increment each time a "new" (lacking the file) card is inserted?
09:07:25amiconn.rbdbid ;)
09:07:42aliaski like it :)
09:07:43JdGordonthis is why a seperate db would work better, then just commit the external db on a plug and remove all the entries on a unplug
09:08:20LloreanCommitting takes time
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09:08:39LloreanFiltering out all entries that either don't have an ID of 0 (internal storage) or an ID matching the current card is a lot simpler.
09:09:08LloreanThough it does mean the dB gets a lot bigger if you have a lot of cards.
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09:09:19LloreanMan, my shift reflex on DB is automatic now. =/
09:09:37JdGordonand no big deal if the db gets big
09:09:48amiconnCommitting takes lots of ram. It uses the audio buffer.
09:10:20amiconnJdGordon: How would you browse 2 separate databases, btw?
09:10:32JdGordonthey would appear to he uer as a single db
09:11:14*JdGordon bck i 20
09:12:03amiconnAnd how should that mixing work? The lists need to be sorted for chunked browsing to work...
09:13:10*amiconn likes this 'single db with filter' idea much better
09:13:34amiconnThe filter could even be disableable (?). Then you could browse for duplicates on different cards
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09:16:06waf3rIs there a site admin on?
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09:18:08caduquestion : can i submit a translation without translated <voice> tags ? i'm doing a full translation to brazilian portuguese and i'm like struggling doubling everything :(
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09:52:04JdGordonamiconn: yeah, I agree, the single db with a filter would be best
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10:00:22Nico_PJdGordon: have you seen my menu commit ?
10:01:35bluebrotherwow. Why did the last commit eat up that much bytes?
10:02:16Mjoolnirany of you got time for a quick question?
10:03:03JdGordonNico_P: not yet
10:03:40Nico_Pbluebrother: it's because of my commit
10:03:46bluebrotherMjoolnir, just ask ...
10:04:21bluebrotherNico_P, because of your commit the following gave that much delta?
10:04:38Nico_Pyes, because mine's delta was never calculated
10:04:42JdGordonwhats up with build.rockbox?
10:05:42Mjoolniralright, I'm looking to get the Gigabeat F40, I'm pretty sure it uses the Toshiba MK2004GAL according to , I'm wondering if I could replace the HD with the Toshiba MK8009GAH
10:05:57bluebrotherhmm. I can see the delta for your commit. So the delta calculation was broken?
10:06:04Mjoolnirmy archos died :(
10:06:24Nico_Pbluebrother: actually I made two successive commits, one of which was ignored by the delta script
10:06:50Nico_P14:33 and 17:34
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10:07:31Nico_Pthe 17:33 one froze the build system and got forgotten
10:07:46bluebrotherah, I see. That commit is missing on the build page
10:08:14bluebrotherthat missing line in the build table
10:09:09bluebrothermissed that. Maybe I should go for a coffee ;-)
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10:10:10peturMjoolnir: surely not an MK8009, that has a ZIF connector... I think you'd need an MK8007 which is hard to find
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10:10:32Mjoolnirthanks for looking :)
10:10:39peturunless gigabeat uses ZIF...
10:12:05peturwhoa... e-bay lists one for 552 euro...
10:12:41Mjoolnir552 euro...
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10:13:55Mjoolnirmaybe I should just get the 60gb gigabeat
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10:16:16peturMjoolnir: first find out if the MK8007 would work, then keep an eye on e-bay & co, I got mine for less than 300 euro I think
10:16:37LloreanI'm _almost_ positive the MK8007 will.
10:16:44peturI got it from here:
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10:17:59Mjoolnirits a moot point though, was gonna get the player off ebay for 100$ and then replace the HD, though if the HD is over 150$ then I might as well get the MES60VK player
10:18:38Mjoolnirthough I do think the HDs will work
10:18:53LloreanThe MES60VK is a Gigabeat S
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10:19:24LloreanRockbox won't run on those.
10:20:05LloreanWhy not get a 60gb F-series?
10:20:24peturhmmm MK8009 are cheap :( - they do sell MK6006 cheap too - don't know if that is 50 pins or ZIF
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10:22:03linuxstb_Mjoolnir: I've just added an MK8007GAH to my gigabeat (an F20 - I had to replace the case with an F40's case) - it works perfectly.
10:22:19Mjoolnirouch, 350$ for the 60gb f series
10:23:09Mjoolnirthat HD is apparently really expensive
10:24:13Mjoolnirthat would work
10:25:02amiconnMjoolnir: The Gigabeat F40 doesn't use the MK2004GAL for sure, as that is a 20GB hdd
10:25:24amiconnThat would be the disk for an F20
10:26:10MjoolnirI'm guessing the f40 using the double platter version of the mk2004gal then?
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10:30:38Mjoolniralright so a 60gb, gigabeat f40 for 220$ + shipping
10:30:44Mjoolnirsound like a good deal?
10:31:15LloreanAn F40 is a 40gb device..
10:31:31LloreanIt sounds like there's some confusion there.
10:31:33MjoolnirI'd replace the stock HD with a 60gb one
10:35:56Mjoolnirthis may just be a gold mine
10:39:46Mjoolniranyhow thanks all for helping me out
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11:16:19caduupgade rockbox on a gigabeat and it stopped booting...strange
11:16:26cadustops at 'Rockbox Loaded'
11:16:40LloreanWhen was the last time you updated?
11:16:47cadu1 month ago
11:16:56LloreanThere was a bootloader change, did you update to the newer bootloader when that happened?
11:17:05cadui think i'm using the latest
11:17:22LloreanWhen did you put the bootloader on?
11:17:35caduthe first time i use rockbox
11:17:43caduactually as i bought the player i put it
11:17:44LloreanThat's not a useful "when"
11:17:54LloreanI can't read your mind and know when the first time you used it was.
11:17:56cadulike 2 months ago
11:18:04cadu2 or 3 at most
11:18:05LloreanThen you need to update it.
11:18:14LloreanThe most recent bootloader was April 21
11:18:28caduhow can i do it now ? o_O
11:18:50cadustrangely it shows 'rockbox loaded' and the hard drive seem to be spinning :P
11:18:57LloreanTurn off the gigabeat, turn on the gigabeat, hold down the menu button until it stops. It should be on a Recovery screen. Plug in a USB cable directly (not using the dock)
11:19:26caduhad to turn off using the battery break switch... okayz
11:19:50caduentering rescue mode...
11:20:12linuxstbLlorean: The dock/direct connection is only an issue when using the Toshiba firmware IIUC. i.e. it's important for the initial install, but not when using Rockbox's USB mode.
11:20:28Lloreanlinuxstb: The bootloader Recovery mode in that bootloader version requires it.
11:20:38LloreanOr "rescue mode"
11:20:42LloreanWhatever the mode ended up being called.
11:21:10LloreanThere was a time when Rockbox didn't support the USB in the dock, and that bootloader's from then.
11:21:26linuxstbAh OK. But it's no longer an issue?
11:21:27LloreanIf I understand correctly at least.
11:21:34LloreanYeah, with the newest bootloader, there should be no problems
11:21:35cadureplacing the bootloader
11:21:37cadulet's see
11:21:44*linuxstb hasn't unpacked his dock from the box
11:21:54LloreanI use mine for its line out.
11:22:19caduto leave rescue mode i can just power off if directly on the switch ?
11:22:59markuncadu: yes, and don't forget to unmount/safe disconnect
11:23:03caduah , booted!
11:23:23markunsome things might have changed
11:23:40caduthank you :P gotta go to work now, thought i would go without my rockbox :P) thanks !
11:23:41markunI don't know if your last update was before or after the new main menu
11:24:38caduchanged quite a bit
11:24:57markunalso some buttons got changed :)
11:25:05markun(A and POWER swapped basically)
11:25:35linuxstbmarkun: I found another background bug on the gigabeat - in test_codec, the background colour is light-blue (not the white specified in my theme - iCatcher) but the background of the text written on the screen is white. It doesn't happen on my ipod.
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12:03:13PaulJamHi, does the latest commit mean that the random folder advance now works while running a plugin or does it just not show the message over and over anymore?
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12:20:49linuxstbmarkun: Unless my benchmark is wrong, the DMA lcd_clear_display is over 12 times slower than the standard version when there is no backdrop. My benchmark is still running for the case with a backdrop...
12:23:59linuxstbmarkun: The backdrop benchmark has just finished - 4.5 times slower than the standard.
12:24:26linuxstbSo it seems that DMA is a lot slower than our ARM-optimised mem* functions.
12:26:17linuxstbI would also guess that we should remove the DMA from the lcd_update_rect() function and just memcpy....
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12:32:23intgrlinuxstb: But the CPU is free (and perhaps idle) during that time, no?
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12:35:25linuxstbintgr: No, it's in a busy loop waiting for the DMA to finish.
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12:35:48linuxstbSo no other threads can run.
12:36:09intgrOh, why not use it asynchronously?
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12:37:40linuxstbBecause the functions are defined to be synchronous. i.e. you can't start writing to the LCD framebuffer until the clear_display has finished, so you don't gain anything. Making it yield() would allow other threads to run, but I don't think the complication is worthwhile. These DMA routines are buggy as well.
12:38:01linuxstb(and add more target-specific #ifdefs to the code)
12:38:16linuxstbI would just prefer to get rid of them.
12:39:19intgrYou could at least hlt while waiting for an interrupt, to save battery life.
12:39:36linuxstbBut if they're so much slower, what's the point?
12:40:22intgrI would except a DMA engine to be at least more power conservative.
12:42:26linuxstbIf that's the case, then maybe it's worth keeping DMA for the lcd_update_rect, but for the rest of the LCD driver, I would just prefer the simplicity of using the same code on all targets.
12:42:46linuxstblcd_update_rect() is device-specific anyway.
12:43:23intgrBut you should do some measurements before you take my word for it. :)
12:44:35intgrThe battery saving might be negligible.
12:46:41linuxstbThe ipod 5g video driver yields in lcd_update_rect(), so it wouldn't be a problem to do it for another target. But no, I'm not going to change that yet, just the lcd_clear_display() related code.
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12:58:51amiconnlinuxstb: I suspect that DMA is slower because the dma engine probably can't use the data cache
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13:02:38intgrAnd the power consumption during sleep is probably not be 12 times lower than active, negating the effect.
13:04:50linuxstbamiconn: Do you agree the DMA code in the gigabeat LCD driver should just be removed (my preference), or do you think something could be gained by yielding/sleeping whilst waiting for the DMA?
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13:12:07amiconnlinuxstb: I would just remove it
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13:24:13JdGordonNico_P: you stll round?
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13:37:04jhMikeSwhat's the deal with getting a DAP to have the files show up in debian? anything I mount just shows "001 devics drivers" no matter how. I need a partition dump.
13:39:16ZagorjhMikeS: "fdisk -l /dev/<device>" gives you a partition list
13:40:23*linuxstb wonders what the sleep(200) is for in the gigabeat lcd_update_rect()
13:41:04amiconn2 seconds??
13:41:21linuxstbI mean why sleep at all?
13:42:54jhMikeSmounting using the ones there - same deal :\
13:44:10linuxstbjhMikeS: What says "001 device drivers" ? I've never seen that message. Are you running Debian natively or in vmware?
13:44:51linuxstbHave you done whatever is needed to give vmware access to USB?
13:45:06jhMikeSmount -t usbfs /dev/sda1 /mnt/sansa ... ls /mnt/sansa show "001 devices drivers"
13:45:24jhMikeSit's there and it's enabled and checked
13:45:29linuxstbYou want -t vfat I tried that before but I guess had something wrong. thanks
13:47:00Nico_PJdGordon: yes but not for long
13:47:03linuxstbusbfs is some kind of virtual filesystem for accessing information about USB devices
13:47:16linuxstb(not a real filesystem)
13:47:46jhMikeSI think I typed /dev/sda1/ and /mnt/sansa/ mistakenly and never looked back ... lol
13:47:53JdGordonNico_P: did you want something re your last commit?
13:48:19Nico_PJdGordon: as it has to do with menus, I just wanted to know if I did it right
13:48:43Nico_Por rather if I did anything wrong
13:48:52JdGordonah ok, quick looked fine..
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13:49:06jhMikeSdd does the dump?
13:49:18linuxstbjhMikeS: Yes. What do you want to do?
13:49:31jhMikeSI need a partition.bin for the emulator
13:50:05linuxstbI've never used the emulator. Does it expect a dump of the whole disk, or just a FAT32 partition?
13:50:23jhMikeSboth partitions I believe
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13:51:06linuxstbTo dump the whole disk, just do "dd if=/dev/sda of=mydump.bin bs=32768" (bs is optional, but 32KB will be much faster than the default 512 bytes)
13:51:10Nico_PJdGordon: ok. If there's anything wrong, feel free to correct :)
13:51:20JdGordon:) will do
13:51:51jhMikeSlinuxstb: that's for each one, no?
13:51:56*Nico_P is off to class
13:52:07linuxstbjhMikeS: I'm guessing it wants the entire disk, including partition table.
13:52:35linuxstbIf you want to dump the partitions individually, just use /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 in two separate dds
13:52:40jhMikeSwell, it needs the bootloader and all the OF
13:53:11linuxstbWithout the partition table, it can't know where the second partition is (unless it expects two separate files).
13:53:20jhMikeSmakes sense
13:53:27jhMikeSno, just one
13:53:50linuxstbAlso, if it's emulating the ATA controller, it makes sense for it to have the entire disk available.
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13:56:00jhMikeSWell, I can send L-R pairs to the FIFO but DA conversion seems to get delayed two BCLKs and that's just not right. I mean I can kill the channels switching now if we don't mind 14-bit audio for a bit.
13:57:46linuxstbjhMikeS: I assume (hope) you've been granted a copy of the AS3514 datasheet?
13:58:54jhMikeSand L-R pairs should work just fine since it's I2S compliant and the I2S bus sends the correct dummy has another mode that's left justified but we're not using that
13:59:20jhMikeSThe PP5024 has it that is
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13:59:49norbusanmax are you here?
14:00:56peturwoof woof
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14:01:33jhMikeSit occurs to me debian ain't gonna hold that file
14:02:12linuxstbYou could compress it - "dd if=/dev/sda bs=32768 | gzip -9 > mydump.bin.gz"
14:02:45linuxstbOr if you have cygwin, the same dd command should work there.
14:02:48jhMikeSmaybe but the poor thing almost always runs near full
14:03:10jhMikeSno cygwin...that lasted about a day for me :)
14:03:15linuxstbOr just use the native win32 dd that's available.
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14:03:53jhMikeSah, no biggie I'll mount something else and send it there...maybe to the gigabeat :)
14:05:04amiconnjhMikeS: Does the delay also happen with single samples? always needs a right shift by two
14:05:35*amiconn vaguely remembers that there was a low volume problem on sansa (??)
14:06:01JdGordonyeah, volume still isnt perfect...
14:06:05jhMikeSreally, I think ipods could use the L-R pairs sending right now
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14:10:26jhMikeSbtw, if don't don't right shift by two on sansa, the samples wrap so I know it's picking bits up too late. there's no volume problem, it's a frequency response problem that's intermittent for me anyway. otherwise it's sounds fine.
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14:14:26amiconnHmm. I know that several I2S enabled devices have option bits for delaying the data by 1 clock
14:14:35amiconnThere might also be a clock polarity problem
14:15:38jhMikeSmy thoughts too but I couldn't find another bit that altered the sound favorably
14:17:18jhMikeSthe chip specs show that it follows I2S so it should truncate or zero fill and says any number of bits can be sent
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14:18:40SiebaZhi @ all
14:19:23jhMikeSdumping from sansa to gigabeat takes awhile :\
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14:25:10linuxstbjhMikeS: You may find this easier -
14:25:53jhMikeSit's running. I stopped it when it was almost finished so I guess just patience.
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14:27:38jhMikeSthanks though. might come in handy if I find I need it alot.
14:28:50JdGordonpondlife: ping?
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14:31:49JdGordonI know its implementation and not design, but... the resason we need a pointer t copy data into is because there is a good chance the data could wrap aroun the end of the buffer....
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14:36:34pondlifeJdGordon: Sorry, back now...
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14:37:27JdGordonpondlife: the above message was for you...
14:37:38pondlifeYou're correct - or we could have bufread() return a short amount and the calling routine will need to make a second call to get the block from the start of the buffer?
14:38:04pondlifeThe guard buffer will allow for a known minimum size.
14:39:11*jhMikeS wonders if somethings not awry in the gigabeat config in general if DMA is actually so slow
14:39:35JdGordonpondlife: that would only work if the amount untill the end if > the minimum size requested
14:40:14pondlifeAh, that was why I scrapped the idea of "minimum size"...
14:40:39pondlifeJust need a way to indicate EOF
14:41:02pondlifeRather than relying on a short read. Maybe a read that returns 0 would indicate EOF?
14:41:05jhMikeSwhen rb crashes? :P
14:41:20pondlifelol, that's happening already!
14:41:32*pondlife didn't even write a line of code yet
14:41:41JdGordonpondlife: dont the codecs expect the data to come in the length it asks for?
14:41:56JdGordoni mean, dont the codecs reques x bytes, xpecting to get it all?
14:42:00pondlifeYes, but playback can read repeatedly until there's enough data
14:42:02jhMikeSususally a positive read less than the requested amount indicates that, no?
14:42:16pondlifeTypically, but we can define it however we like
14:43:02pondlifeOr bufread() can always do the copying and handle it internally, but I don't like to enforce copying which may not be so useful for MoB.
14:43:21pondlifei.e. bufread acts like a standard file read().
14:43:55jhMikeSso you plan to copy data instead of just reference it and decode from the buffer itself?
14:44:03pondlifeI hope not to.
14:44:08linuxstbpondlife: There are two ways for codecs to get data - a read() function that copies the data, and a "get_pointer" function that just returns a pointer to some data.
14:44:21pondlifeI would prefer to just return a pointer to the data and a number of valid bytes.
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14:44:56linuxstbThe read() advances the curpos pointer (marking the data as used), and there is a separate advance_buffer() function for use with the get_pointer function.
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14:45:46pondlifeBut there are 2 advantages to the copy method. (1) it can hide the buffer wrap. (2) there's no concept of how long the data is valid for.
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14:46:22pondlifeI don't think the second point will make much difference in real life...
14:47:15pondlifeAnd the first point can be dealt with by returning a short block, which will result in a second bufread call to complete the codec block.
14:47:57jhMikeShow bout doing one or the other and telling the caller? not much complication really
14:48:53pondlifeDifferent API slightly.
14:49:06pondlifei.e. char **dst vs. char *dst
14:49:50linuxstbA disadvantage of the copy is that codecs might not know how much data they want until after the frame has been decoded. i.e. most codecs request 32KB, and then after the frame has been decoded, the buffer pointer s incrememented by the size of the frame (which for VBR codecs is unknown in advance)
14:50:02jhMikeScaller provides a buffer _and_ a pointer and it tells the caller the request needed to be satisified with a copy
14:50:22pondlifeYep, can provide both interfaces...
14:50:32jhMikeSnot two functions, just one
14:50:38pondlifeWhy not 2?
14:50:49pondlifeOne will wrap the other of course..
14:50:53jhMikeSbecause buffering decides the proper course
14:50:58***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:51:09jhMikeSreally only needed upon wrap
14:51:31pondlifeHmm, I'd rather the caller didn't need to think about the distinction.
14:51:44jhMikeSin which case the frame boundary problem will disappear because the codec can discard and rerequest
14:51:52*linuxstb can't see a problem with the current approach and would prefer to remove the read() function from the API completely
14:52:14pondlifelinuxstb: read()?
14:52:17pondlifeor bufread()?
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14:52:32linuxstbWhatever function is equivalent to read() - i.e. copies the data
14:52:48jhMikeSIt can also implicitely have the option of forcing a copy by passing NULL for the pointer or forcing a pointer by passing NULL for the buffer...all needs are met
14:53:00pondlifeIt's more making sure that the required data has been buffered. There's no copying...
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14:54:04linuxstbpondlife: Maybe the function name needs to be changed then - IMO read() implies the data is copied.
14:54:32linuxstb(as Rockbox is generally POSIX-based)
14:54:35pondlifeOr, as we were saying, maybe it does need to copy...
14:55:08pondlifeI'd prefer it to be a POSIX-style interface, certainly.
14:55:34linuxstbI can't see a reason for copying. Most of the codecs use the "get_pointer" interface.
14:56:09pondlifeSo... provide both functions. And don't call the non-copying one!
14:56:26linuxstbYes - i.e. what the codec API has at the moment...
14:57:03pondlifeI'm hoping to just separate out existing code here. And not change anything codec-side.
14:58:05jhMikeSyou just need one function and resetting the pointer to NULL on returns tell the caller a copy was made
14:58:47pondlifeI really don't want the caller to have to make such checks... better if the caller decides which type of access it wants.
14:59:17jhMikeSit does though and it can decide it can have either
14:59:53pondlifeHmm, you mean if the caller passes in a NULL for the destination?
15:00:54jhMikeSlike size = read(&my_pointer, my_buffer) tell it can accept either
15:01:10linuxstbjhMikeS: The only place a copy would seem to be needed is at the buffer wraparound point, and the guard buffer handles that, without the codecs needing to care.
15:01:29jhMikeSsome might, if they need large reads
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15:01:50RockingDhello. does RockBox makes use of dual core arcitecture where applicable?
15:02:21linuxstbBut they don't need large reads. The exception is the non-streaming codecs which require the whole file in contiguous memory - but copying won't solve that problem as there isn't a big enough buffer to copy the entire file to.
15:02:24jhMikeSRockingD: in mpegplayer atm
15:03:34jhMikeSlinuxstb: true, but I'm not liking just wasting the buffer if the mod file would go past the buffer end
15:04:39jhMikeSthere should be no pointers in MoB, only offsets so things can be moved and not invalidate the data
15:05:04amiconnWhat would you think needs moving?
15:05:30pondlifeIf things are moved inside the buffer, then offsets are as useless as pointers, surely?
15:05:38jhMikeSA mod file that wrap, no way I want to deal with changing guard sizes and such
15:06:19jhMikeSno, because offsets are always forward
15:06:37pondlifeOffsets from where? The buffer start?
15:06:51jhMikeSfrom it's position
15:07:55jhMikeSif the cp is x, the final position is x+o
15:08:14pondlifePosition of what? i.e. what is x?
15:08:20pondlifeTrack start?
15:08:39jhMikeSsomething counted up from zero since playback started
15:08:40RockingDjhMikeS: where could I find info on how to start a thread on a separate core and to synch these cores?
15:09:19jhMikeSRockingD: there's problems with a particular chip atm and that's why the scheduler's not mutexed for it atm
15:09:55amiconnjhMikeS: How would you move a mod file that must not wrap, if there already is buffered data behind it?
15:10:22amiconnI'd rather go for adaptive guard sizes (defined by the format loader) and never move data inside the buffer
15:10:27jhMikeSrotate the whole buffer so the mod file is flattened
15:11:00amiconnYou can't fully rotate without some temporary buffer
15:11:04jhMikeSall offsets will remain valid
15:11:18jhMikeSuse the guard buffer itself as a temp space
15:11:20amiconnAnd copying several MB is costly
15:11:50amiconnYou need a buffer the size of the amount of rtotation, so the guard buffer wouldn't suffice
15:13:35jhMikeSthat's one of those things I'm wondering if it's really true and haven't proven it to be
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15:15:28pondlife"SVN activity so lame! Its really boring little fixes." lol
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15:17:17jhMikeSdetails are good
15:17:43*linuxstb is very happy to see boring little fixes
15:17:49*pondlife too
15:18:02jhMikeSaright, enough of my opinionating for awhile :P
15:18:15pondlifeNo, we need more opinionating 'round here
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15:18:37jhMikeSoh? I can do that hardcore
15:18:44*pondlife is slightly distressed at the use of "My Humps" all over
15:18:57pondlifeAlthough it makes some sense on the "Sahara" theme.
15:19:22linuxstbjhMikeS: re: your earlier statement about the gigabeat DMA, do you think it's worth investigating? I'm on the verge of reverting all those DMA "optimisations".
15:19:25jhMikeShavent't seen those
15:19:58jhMikeSlinuxstb: it seems odd to me it should be slow on a hipo CPU like that
15:22:42pondlifeJust good 6 builds until we're totally green.... and time for lunch
15:23:37RockingDjhMikeS: What chips do have problems? were there attempts to make a real multi-core scheduler? I'm interested because RockBox can't handle realtime mp3 decoding on my Ipod 3G
15:24:41jhMikeSRockingD: PP5020 ... I suspect interrupts are dying are the cores go to sleep for good
15:25:21jhMikeSI don't have a tester myself with that chip so I can't probe it
15:30:24RockingDjhMikeS: I'll try to find one. What is the best way to contact you? Or this IRC channel is a standard communication way?
15:31:11jhMikeSPM me here I guess. H10, iPod Photo/Color...and ... what you've got I think
15:35:14RockingDBTW, could be iPodLinux in dual mode with RockBox? Or it worth to try? :)
15:35:25linuxstbRockingD: Have you tried the new "test_codec" plugin which can accurately benchmark the decoding speeds of the codecs? It could be interesting to see how close the mp3 decoder is to realtime.
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15:35:30amiconnPP5002 is another matter...
15:35:50*jhMikeS ignores that one :)
15:36:15amiconnBut that's what the G3 has (regarding RockingD's problem)
15:37:09jhMikeSwhat about the cache invalidation? It's absolutely needed when creating a cop thread in a plugin since that counts as an addition code entry point.
15:40:28jhMikeSis nothing cached currently? mpegplayer most certainly crashed without it after removing an lcd operation from the start of the thread function on the others.
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15:46:40RockingDjhMikeS: could you please tell something more on "cache invalidation"? what cache do you mean? CPU or some kind of buffer?
15:49:36linuxstbHe's referring to the CPU cache(s). Each core has its own independent cache.
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15:52:07jhMikeSit's seems to never be done on 5002
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16:06:36*linuxstb spots lots of people reading the "Lame SVN fixes..." thread
16:07:01JdGordonits funny :)
16:07:07daurnimatorhey JdGordon
16:07:14daurnimatoryou touched my archos?
16:07:31JdGordonhey daurnimator
16:07:42JdGordonna, still sitting here... you havnt ben online in a while?
16:07:49daurnimatorbeen busy
16:08:14daurnimatoranyway, as I said a while ago, your iriver battery seems to be borked
16:08:36daurnimatorcan't take it out for more than 5 minutes
16:09:12JdGordonwhats your plans tomorow?
16:09:20JdGordonI can bring it round after uni...
16:09:28daurnimatorI got friday off
16:09:47JdGordonfriday is no good... unless you come here
16:10:01daurnimatorna, you're too far from transport :P
16:10:02*JdGordon slaps jhMikeS around with a partially screwed scrollwheel!
16:10:06daurnimator(3 doesn't count)
16:10:49JdGordonor i can drop it in on my way home from moorabin on thursday around 5.45ish
16:10:57daurnimatorthat sounds ok
16:11:20daurnimatordid you delete music off it?
16:12:17*JdGordon stuffed up the commit message :'(
16:12:36JdGordonthe word commit is missing...
16:13:12preglowmarkun: i tried some of the hrtfs from that lib, and most of them really don't work well on me at all
16:13:17jhMikeSJdGordon: what's so screwed about it?
16:13:20preglowmarkun: some of them even give weird flanging sounds
16:13:26JdGordonjhMikeS: plugins :(
16:13:36JdGordonnone were ready for buton_repeat
16:13:42jhMikeSyes, but that should be a quick remap right?
16:13:52JdGordonno, because almost noe use the actions
16:13:55jhMikeSit needs repeating though for end of list
16:14:18JdGordonyeah, no, i dont have a problem with the repeating... just being difficutly
16:14:48jhMikeSI think most should just treat it all the same, no?
16:16:21JdGordonno, becayse they are mostly doing a switch (get_button()) or similar, so the button_repeat case is missing
16:16:29markunpreglow: ah, that sucks
16:16:58markunI remember that we listened to some sample files one time which I think were generated with this data
16:17:51preglowa problem is also that interpolating between hrtfs seems to be non-trivial
16:17:56preglowit's not just a matter of crossfading between them
16:18:07markunlinuxstb: I'm all for removing that DMA stuff, it will still be in SVN if we need it
16:18:23*daurnimator goes to bed
16:19:00linuxstbmarkun: My thoughts as well.
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16:19:40markunpreglow: is interpolation needed because there are not enough HRTF's per head?
16:20:01preglownot enough per azimuth/elevation
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16:20:16preglow25 filters for a whole circle isn't exactly enough for seamless operation, i'd guess
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16:20:52jhMikeSpreglow: my understanding is that's an outstanding problem in HRTFs anyway
16:22:17preglowsome people mention using the karhunen-loeve transform to find the basis functions, then interpolate using them, but that's pretty hairy stuff
16:22:24preglowjhMikeS: yeah, probably
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16:24:05markunpreglow: never looked at the code, but perhaps it's useful:
16:25:59preglowthat links to another page with hrirs
16:27:33markunI couldn't get it to run here at the office
16:27:48markuncould you check how well it works for you?
16:28:29preglowjava is a no-go on my computer right now
16:28:39preglow64 bit blues
16:29:28preglowwhy the hell would dma be slower than mem* ???
16:30:34linuxstbjava doesn't work on amd64? Or just problems with your setup?
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16:40:28amiconnlinuxstb: Java itself does work on amd64, but there is no 64 bit browser plugin
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16:51:03***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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16:57:05n1samiconn: I was thinking about slightly improving the battery runtime estimation thingy for h300, do you know of any serious measurings that have been made?
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16:59:13GodEateris that Colombo guy running for the position of "least popular forum contributor" ? He's got my vote if he is...
16:59:37linuxstbGodEater: I like him, brings some humour to the forums...
17:03:08linuxstbamiconn: What do you think about not drawing scrolling lines in the scroll thread when the LCD is disabled? It seems the gigabeat (and only the gigabeat) is doing that...
17:03:25LloreanGodEater: Trust me, he's far, far from "Most annoying" if we go by all time.
17:03:39LloreanI find him good for a laugh as linuxstb suggested. :)
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17:05:36GodEaterI wonder how old he is
17:05:47markunGodEater: maybe he's a member of a trolling group like Dongs was
17:06:04markun(GNAA in his case)
17:06:05GodEaterthere are trolling *groups* ?!?
17:06:16markunyes, I only found out a few days ago :)
17:06:51GodEaterI'm continually amazed at the things some people find to use there time for
17:07:20LloreanEspecially when it's people older than about 16.
17:07:54markunGodEater: like the Zune Linux project you mean? ;)
17:08:30GodEatermarkun: that especially :)
17:08:42bluebrothertrolling groups?
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17:12:38markunGodEater: ah, just read in one of the posts on that there is a new update, but can't find the actual news update itself :)
17:13:16markun.. news update, not new update
17:13:51GodEaterit's a wonder you're managing to keep track of it at all - what with the lightning progress they're making
17:14:05GodEaterseveral hundred updates a day and everything
17:14:45linuxstbYes, those svn commit emails keep flying...
17:15:47markunat least they now almost have a sourceforge account. That's very important as most of the sourceforce projects are a huge success
17:16:55linuxstbA sign of their success will be if they move from sourceforge to their own servers ;)
17:17:14intgrHuh :)
17:18:09markunlinuxstb: I believe ffmpeg is now changing from subversion to git
17:18:39markunbut I don't know what the advantages are
17:19:05intgrDistributed SCM.
17:19:36linuxstbYes, I've been reading that thread - Michael Niedermayer's first post on the subject mentioned a few.
17:20:18 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
17:20:25intgrWhich means no need for central servers or explicit branching/merging.
17:22:29Nico_Pserioulsy, there is no central server ? I thouht ditributed meant local version control
17:22:32linuxstbTo quote - "want to fork ffmpeg to devlop some experimental feature together with other developers without putting the main branch at risk and then merge it back without loosing history, trivial ..."
17:22:53Nico_Plinuxstb: could you give a link ?
17:23:26intgrNico_P: There _usually_ is a central server, but anyone can push/pull to/from anyone.
17:23:35intgrAnd anyone can set up their own server for their own branch(es).
17:23:36linuxstbNico_P: The long thread starts here -
17:23:55intgrWithout any commit privileges, etc.
17:23:58Nico_Pintgr: very nice, even better than I thought
17:24:07Nico_Plinuxstb: thanks
17:25:45markunlinuxstb: it would have been nice for the Gigabeat port
17:26:46Nico_Pmarkun: couldn't it have been done in a branch ?
17:26:55intgrThe problem with distributed version control tools is that the number of alternatives is quickly approaching a hundred. :)
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17:27:09markunNico_P: maybe, I have no idea how how a branch works
17:27:34GodEaterarch is kind of the same thing isn't it?
17:27:35markunNico_P: do you still get the updates from the HEAD branch?
17:27:48Nico_Pyou just svn cp the parts you need to another dir
17:28:02intgrmarkun: If you merge them from the HEAD.
17:28:09Nico_Pdepends... you have to update the bvranch
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17:28:46Nico_Pintgr: but if you only branch a select part you have less merging to do, right ?
17:29:12intgrAre you talking about CVS here?
17:29:42intgrAh, well, normally you'd branch the whole trunk anyway.
17:29:55Nico_Plinuxstb: I think we should branch for all the playback/buffering stuff that's going to happen
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17:30:03intgrOtherwise you couldn't check out the whole thing into one place without hacking.
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17:30:41Nico_Pthere is svn switch to switch between branches, and it works even on subdirs
17:30:57Nico_Pyou can have a hybrid local copy
17:34:31markunlinuxstb: this was the Blackfin CPU suggested by that guy from for building our own DAP:
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17:41:07linuxstbmarkun: Seems slightly overpowered for a DAP...
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17:45:00markunlinuxstb: yes, more a PMP
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17:45:49linuxstboops, I've just noticed I disabled the DMA for lcd_update_rect() by mistake...
17:46:12markunlinuxstb: does it matter?
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17:46:25linuxstbNot really, but I wanted to benchmark it before removing it properly.
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17:49:21*linuxstb wishes gwhite had included benchmark figures in his commit messages...
17:52:10n1slinuxstb: I get a Illinstr crash if I try to playback a file after using test_codec
17:52:17n1son h300
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17:53:43linuxstbWith DMA, full-screen lcd_update() runs at 64.0fps according to test_fps, and without DMA it's 264.5fps...
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17:54:15linuxstbn1s: Reliably?
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17:54:36n1slinuxstb: I'll test more but so far yes
17:54:44linuxstbn1s: Also, which codec? I've had no problems on my h140
17:55:21n1stremor, the tests runs fine, even several afer eachother, but trying to play a file, bam
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17:56:29n1shmm, got "I03:AddErr at 10000374" now
17:56:58linuxstbn1s: OK, I see if I can reproduce.
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18:05:37simmelo_O "JPEG/PNG album art is not supported. This is because the WPS code can only display bitmap pictures." Why not implement JPEG/PNG into the WPS code then? I mean, I'm just a luser with no right to complain, but the wiki doesn't explain why this isn't done. Atleast, I couldn't find it.
18:06:09LloreanBecause there's no good reason to increase the size of the core by adding jpeg decoding support?
18:06:12linuxstbmarkun: Do you have any idea why there's a sleep(200) at the start of the gigabeat's lcd_update_rect (for the !lcd_on case) ?
18:06:24markunlinuxstb: no, sorry
18:06:38Lloreansimmel: All it does is add computational overhead and increased binary size for a minimal size benefit on disk, something that you should generally have a reasonable amount of.
18:09:59simmelo_O Well, I'm lazy and I guess 90% of the users are, so why even have it at all? I mean sure, someone could do some oneliner magic that finds all folders and extracts the jpeg/png and converts it into an bmp in that folder.. BUT..
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18:10:00Nico_Plinuxstb: is your gigabeat commit going to have noticeable effects ?
18:10:22linuxstbmarkun: I don't suppose you know what the lcd_enable() function (setting/clearing bit 1 in LCDCON1) is doing? i.e. is it saving power?
18:10:33Lloreansimmel: So you're saying "Don't support any album art, if we're not going to support it your way?"
18:10:33Nico_Psimmel: it exists... you could adapt the scripts from the album art wiki page
18:10:44LloreanThere are hundreds of users who have no problem using our method of album art.
18:10:59linuxstbNico_P: You shouldn't see any background-colour related bugs any more. It's also faster, but I'm not sure if you will notice it.
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18:11:00simmelLoosing a reasonable amount of battery for convenience is OK by me. Just make it optional (though, kind of hard if you don't want lib(jpeg|png) in the binary)
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18:11:12Nico_PLlorean: actually it's not really 'our' method, as it's not an official feature ;)
18:11:43simmelLlorean JPEG/PNG inside the MP3 in the ID3Tag is pretty much standard as I see it. But I'm not an developer, just a user so I have no idea, but I'm guessing here.
18:11:49Nico_Plinuxstb: yes, the background color bugs seem to be gone and that's very nice... I was wondering about speedups
18:11:50LloreanNico_P: Well I personally am reasonably satisfied with how the album art patch uses external bitmaps, despite never using it.
18:12:12simmelNico_P I'll look into it, thanks for pointing it out.
18:12:27linuxstbsimmel: It's standard on a PC, but not standard for DAPs to support. e.g. the Apple firmware on ipods has a separate album art database with uncompressed bitmaps - similar in principle to the existing album-art patch.
18:12:31Nico_PLlorean: I'm satisfied with it too
18:12:34Lloreansimmel: That's how it's done a lot of times, yes, but that doesn't mean we have to support it that way. If JPEG support is added to the core (a necessity for that to work) then that code will be there even for users who will never use it.
18:13:13LloreanSomeone could very easily make an album art extraction plugin.
18:13:20simmelLlorean That's what I mean and I see that problem. It's not that many who uses albumart though.
18:13:22Nico_PI was speaking about that recently... would it be possible to have a variation of the JPEG plugin that would write the decoded bitmap somewhere in memory ?
18:13:26*linuxstb mentions Rockbox Utility
18:13:50Nico_Pyes, that would be a very nice feature to add to rbutil
18:13:52Lloreanlinuxstb: RBUtil would be wonderful for that. But a plugin on-target wouldn't be bad either.
18:14:11LloreanMuch, much slower of course.
18:14:39simmelBut saying "No we don't support this because it sucks/adds to our binary(which is small btw)/whatever!" isn't going to attract "mainstream-users" but then again, maybe that's not your plan. We in the OpenBSD community just says "Tough luck" to someone like me. =P
18:14:43 Quit obo_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:14:49LloreanNico_P: I don't see why you couldn't just have a plugin that decoded the image tag and wrote it back as a file in the appropriate format for album art use.
18:15:07Lloreansimmel: The binary is already too large on some targets.
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18:15:19simmelOh = / Then I see you problem.
18:15:23linuxstbsimmel: Rockbox doesn't support album art at all - that's how much we care ;)
18:15:42 Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear)
18:15:44Lloreansimmel: Once there is an official album art feature, I'm sure some method will come along for easy conversion to the format we'll support.
18:15:49simmelBut an plugin which does it automatically when enabled is sufficient (for me).
18:15:51bluebrothersimmel: Rockbox is written by volunteers for fun, not for attracting users ;-)
18:15:55LloreanProbably RBUtil, a plugin, or both.
18:15:56simmellinuxstb Llorean Yes, I agree.
18:16:00simmelbluebrother Agree.
18:16:38LloreanI think the target audience is "People who will work on improving it, and not flood our forums with posts that ask why the recent SVN commits are LAME because they actually fix bugs rather than adding NES game support" :-P
18:17:13Nico_Pis there a reason why bubbles is limited to 20 FPS on the gigabeat, making it choppy ?
18:17:39LloreanIs it limited to 20fps everywhere or just gigabeat?
18:18:46Nico_Pit's 40 on the ipod video, 30 on the H300/ipod color
18:19:06LloreanI would think it should have the same limit everywhere
18:19:08Nico_Pwith the gigabeat's CPU, I think we can easily change that to 40... I'll try
18:19:35LloreanActually, nevermind, my thought doesn't apply to bubbles at all.
18:20:36Nico_Pwith 40 it's much smoother but also very fast
18:20:52Nico_Pmaybe that's why it's limited to 20... because of the fast CPU
18:21:31LloreanBut 40 on one target should be as fast/smooth as it is on any other
18:21:37 Quit RaRe` (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:21:41LloreanThough I bet the iPod is too slow to support 40 properly
18:21:46LloreanHow's 30?
18:22:37 Part kaaloo
18:22:39Nico_PI like it... smoother but not too fast
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18:44:02rigeli tried downgrading, my h10 is still getting codec failed messages
18:46:36Nico_Prigel: you need to unzip everything and make sure the codec files get replaced
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18:59:04rigelNico_P: i've unzipped the whole thing more than once. overwrote everything every time
18:59:06amiconnlinuxstb: Quite a difference...
18:59:33rigelive even tried deleting .rockbox and then reinstalling from scratch
19:00:55Nico_Prigel: are you unmounting (or safely removing) properly ?
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19:03:35bluebrotherdo you have the recent bootloader and not a file /rockbox.mi4?
19:03:45bluebrotheror /rockbox.h10
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19:29:09rigelNico_P: yes.
19:29:35rigelbluebrother: i dont know, i'm at work and didnt bring it with me, so i cant check. i am dual-booting though
19:29:41bluebrotherLlorean: can we have a permanent nice link to the forum posting guidelines? Like
19:29:53bluebrotherwould make it easier when linking to them ;-)
19:33:07Lloreanbluebrother: It seems like that should be possible. That does add a bit of hassle for updating them, because it would mean only I can make changes to them, rather than currently anyone who has "edit others posts" privileges.
19:33:18linuxstbWhy not just put them on the wiki?
19:33:53bluebrotherLlorean, why would this add hassle when updating? You could just make this link forward to the appropriate post
19:34:17bluebrotheri.e. have a guidelines.php which just sends a Location: header
19:35:17LloreanAh, I could do that.
19:35:25LloreanI was thinking of a static page.
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19:35:32LloreanI think a Wiki page could work too, though
19:35:36bluebrothernah. Too inflexible ;-)
19:35:41bluebrother(static page, not wiki ;-)
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19:36:26bluebrothermy main idea was just to have some url one can remember −− I would have linked the guidelines quite a few times, but I usually don't have the link at hand
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19:36:41LloreanI think a wiki page will do for that.
19:37:22LloreanThen we can get rid of the post.
19:37:35LloreanAnd move one step closer to my "Forums are for discussion, we don't need stickies here" utopia. :-P
19:38:16bluebrotherhmm. Only new forum users won't see the sticky anymore
19:38:32bluebrotherwhich might be a good thing in _that_ case.
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19:39:40LloreanAlso with a static URL to a wiki page, I can easily add it into the registration agreement (not that I couldn't before really).
19:41:22linuxstbCan you make a link appear on the "start new topic" page? That would seem to be the ideal place.
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19:42:41LloreanHmm, I bet I can.
19:43:23*linuxstb challenges Llorean
19:43:28LloreanWould a nag screen go too far?
19:43:56LloreanWhen you post a new topic, you get a screen prompting "I agree to follow the guidelines posted here:" and a link to wherever we keep the guidelines?
19:44:00linuxstbI think so - just a prominent "Please read the posting guidelines before starting a new thread"
19:44:13*linuxstb is too kind...
19:45:12LloreanI'd have to figure out which file actually generate the New Post screen.
19:45:14LloreanOr where in which file
19:45:31LloreanBut other than that it should be pretty easy I think
19:46:42LloreanI wonder how much I'll break by manually editing index.php
19:51:51LloreanYeah it doesn't seem readily changeable by the "theme" related files, which means I'd have to directly modify some of the functional files, or learn a little more about how everything relates. I mean, it's surely a simple change, I'm just not sure where at the moment, I don't have local copies of the appropriate files to look at right now
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19:56:42bluebrotherLlorean, how about adding a search bar to the forum list?
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20:00:01Lloreanbluebrother: An actual search box somewhere, rather than just the buttons?
20:00:32bluebrotheryes. Maybe right of the "Pages [1] 2"
20:00:53LloreanI was thinking I could just put it where I've removed the website search on the menu bar.
20:01:07LloreanYou'll notice it's the primary significant difference between the forum menu on the left and the main site menu
20:01:45LloreanI took it out, because I felt people might expect it to search the forums. I could replace it with one that does search the forums.
20:02:18LloreanAnyway, it's clear I need to go and dig in the code somewhat, which is something I can't really do right now, but when I do I'll keep in mind checking up on integrating search into someplace more obvious/accessible.
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20:28:51XavierGrlife has a sense of humour indeed...
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20:29:17XavierGrthe audio isolator fixed my ground loop problem but just when I bought it the car broke down!
20:30:18XavierGramiconn, toffe: thanks for your info, my local shop had an audio isolator for just 6 euros
20:30:55XavierGrit seems that it works perfet too, I can only hear the squeching noise only around maximum volume without music playing
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20:49:30toffe82XavierGr: now you that it is working, you have to change the car ;)
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21:23:11chrisjs169...well it looks like it survived...
21:24:10markunwhat did?
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21:24:48XavierGrtoffe82: haha well I imagine that in a new car I won't have that problem, so the audio isolator will be a waste :P
21:24:57chrisjs169well, i managed to get barbeque sauce in my Sansa....
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21:25:41toffe82XavierGr: you can find a new car at 6 euros , there are really small ones ;)
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21:26:07XavierGrthough I am not going to change to car, (well it needs to be changed but I can't afford it right now) once again the engine will turn off if I leave the throttle alone
21:26:40XavierGrI will sent it for service tomorrow I hope (and I think) that it won't be something very expensive
21:27:08XavierGrthis car has left me already 3 times on the road
21:27:14XavierGrtoday it was nearly the 4th
21:31:59BigMachey, what is causing this compiling error
21:32:03preglowcar service isn't always expensive in greece? :)
21:32:14BigMacI am pretty positive I added my path correctly
21:32:28preglowBigMac: looks like you didn't, it can't find the compiler
21:32:46preglowBigMac: before you try to compile, write arm-elf-gcc in the command line
21:32:52preglowthen you can see if it's in the path or not
21:34:26*dan_a_ looks at all the Sansa changes which have been going on
21:34:58BigMacseems it can't be found
21:35:09BigMachow would I add it to the path correctly then?
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21:35:43toffe82preglow: after seeing the new fps for the mpegplayer for the gigabeat, markun said : now we just need preglow to make the virtual surround sound work :)
21:40:09chrisjs169since I have my sansa open right now, is there anything anyone wants me to look for?
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21:42:33 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
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21:44:08BigMacAnyone know how to apply a path change correctly?
21:48:28BigMacNico_P: Care to explain:p Oh and btw, does bmp resize currently work in conjunction with your album aret patch?
21:48:35 Join myklcz [0] (i=c74048fc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:48:58myklczhi there!
21:49:23myklczanyone knows how to find out iPOD battery capacity to set it well in rockbox ?
21:49:41myklczI have 30GB video Ipod with original battery
21:49:46myklczthank You
21:50:38 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
21:53:23markunrobin0800: I don't understand your forum post..
21:53:42robin0800you can't the range does not go low enough
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21:54:07markunmy brain range doesn't go low enough to understand it?
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21:54:56Nico_PBigMac: I have no idea whether they work well together.... I'm not the one who syncs these patches anymore
21:55:16Nico_Pwhat do you need to know on patching that's not on the wiki ?
21:55:34markunhi tHEkIND
21:56:13markunrobin0800: what do you mean by "The current used at least in the case of the ipod iappears to be hard coded."
21:59:37robin0800markun, tried this patch FS #7070 and set the capacity to 600mAhr
22:00:34markunrobin0800: what about my question? In what way is the current hardcoded?
22:00:48tHEkINDWhen you go to "Show ID3 Info" when you play a song, it would be cool when you select an album/artist/genre to show the songs with the same album/artist/genre of the ID3 Database
22:00:49robin0800markun, time display was then halved
22:01:41markuntHEkIND: why would that be useful?
22:01:53 Quit joa (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:02:03robin0800markun, if the equation is correct meens the current is wrong
22:02:37tHEkINDWhen you're in shuffle Mode with a lot of tracks, and tells you "How, i like this album !", instead of search in all menus
22:02:49markunrobin0800: eh..
22:02:53chrisjs169just an odd question, but why would Sandisk use two 1GB chips for the flash? (e250)
22:03:14markunI'll just wait for other people to answer you in the forum
22:03:48 Join Javacat [0] (n=ghsgh@unaffiliated/javacat)
22:03:56markuntHEkIND: I don't think that feature belongs in Show ID3 Info
22:03:58JavacatMy 60gb x5 comes tomorrow \o/
22:04:07robin0800markun,playing time = Battery capacity/current
22:04:12*Javacat came on here a few weeks ago asking for advice :p
22:04:40nickspoonWait, Javacat?
22:04:51Javacatnickspoon :|
22:04:57tHEkINDmarkun: it's maybe the best place when you're playing a song, when you select a line it's doing nothing, what a waste ^^
22:05:00*Javacat hides
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22:05:34JavacatYou found my secret hideout!
22:05:43nickspoonDo I get points?
22:06:19robin0800markun,so withe the correct capacity you get the wrong playing time this suggests at least in the ipod the current is wrong
22:06:19Javacathmm.. Go on then
22:06:55XavierGrah Lear left...
22:07:03XavierGrpreglow: how do you know that? :P
22:07:43 Part myklcz
22:07:44markunrobin0800: we get the voltage, and then look up in a table at which percentage of the runtime we are
22:08:21*Javacat puts on a disguise and runs away from nickspoon
22:08:22 Part Javacat
22:08:38markunrobin0800: it's multiplied by some factor and the mAh setting to estimate the runtime
22:08:41robin0800markun,so what is the capacity doing
22:09:00markun.. some factor and capacity
22:09:04*nickspoon is very confused
22:09:36markunrobin0800: but it's just an estimation, not the actual playback time
22:09:57markunif you change that value it will not make your ipod play longer
22:10:20 Part juxtap
22:10:34markunnickspoon: about what?
22:11:16robin0800markun,no it is the battery time that is now halved
22:11:29XavierGrmarkun is the table target dependant
22:11:35markunXavierGr: yes
22:11:37nickspoonmarkun: Javacat :)
22:11:44XavierGrthen the table might be set wrong for ipods
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22:11:53markunnickspoon: ah, I thought so after I asked the question :)
22:12:02 Part tHEkIND
22:12:11markunXavierGr: it's quite hard to get it right it seems
22:12:46XavierGrwell robin says that with correct capacity set battery estimation is halved so I guess a new table is neede for the ipod
22:12:52XavierGr(with the correct capacity set)
22:13:12robin0800markun,up until now you could not set battery capacity for ipods the range does not go low enough
22:13:40XavierGrthat's why I think that the table might need recalibration for these targets
22:13:54robin0800markun,so what was set?
22:14:04XavierGr(given that you have the patch that can make you choose the correct mah)
22:14:50markunrobin0800: someone answered you
22:15:01markunmaybe he's making more sense than me :)
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22:16:06robin0800markun,not realy what figures are in the build without the patch?
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22:17:09XavierGrwell I might be wrong, I don't know exactly how the ETA algorithm works, i just made a speculation
22:17:20markunrobin0800: I don't know, can't you just try a build without the patch?
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22:18:47case_rockbox would be perfect for my Sansa e260, the only no-go is that the sound is too low, even at maximum (+6db ?)
22:19:00markuncase_: thanks
22:19:00case_the vendor firmware has a much louder sound
22:19:08 Quit davina ("xchat on Ubuntu 7.04")
22:19:12markunI also think it would be perfect
22:19:16case_anything i can do?
22:19:35chrisjs169case_: there's a patch for increasing the sound
22:19:35robin0800markun,thats not the point I know how long it lasts and some what longer than it displayed
22:19:58markunchrisjs169: any idea why it's not in SVN?
22:19:58 Quit btdubs ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:19:58chrisjs169i just finished doing surgery on my e250, so in a few mins i'll look for the patch
22:20:05chrisjs169markun: not sure
22:20:22chrisjs169I think it's a patch for increasing it...
22:21:09case_chrisjs169, why is there a patch and it's not editable with, you know, the buttons? :)
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22:21:33robin0800markun,so i still wonder what figures were used?
22:21:50 Part TrueJournals
22:22:48chrisjs169case_: dunno :P
22:23:17chrisjs169hmm...guess I better clean off this water on the inside of the back case...
22:23:18markunrobin0800: I have a very hard time understanding what it is what you want to know. Are you just interested in knowing where the votage to percentage conversion is located?
22:24:51markunchrisjs169: I don't think that patch will change the max volume
22:25:03case_what do i need to compile rockbox on ubuntu ? prc-tools-arm ?
22:25:23markuncase_: best is to run tools/ after you download the source
22:25:34chrisjs169markun: it won't change the max volume, but it seems to make it about the same volume as the OF
22:25:37markunit will build the correct toolchain for you
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22:26:05markunchrisjs169: so.. it does change the max volume?
22:27:00chrisjs169markun: i think....although i somehow killed my sansa battery, so I can't really tell for sure
22:27:20XavierGrso this week is the devcon right?
22:27:39 Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC (Session timeout)")
22:28:08markunXavierGr: yes!
22:28:14markunlooking forward to it..
22:28:34markunI hope Ryan Air will not charge me for the extra kilos I might bring into the plane
22:28:50preglowoh, they will
22:29:00preglowryanair have become veritable nazis regarding that
22:29:11markunpreglow: well, I could try to send some stuff home by mail
22:29:20preglowthey used to be easy on it, but not the last times i've used them
22:29:38XavierGrmarkun: so you will attend there? Nice
22:29:52XavierGrI am quite thrilled actually, devcon was cool last year.
22:30:14XavierGrpreglow are you going too?
22:30:16markunXavierGr: yes, I said I wasn't going, but when Bagder asked me "why not?" I didn't really have a good answer :)
22:30:25markunXavierGr: check the wiki
22:30:52XavierGrah no dsp guy in the Devcon then :P
22:31:32XavierGrbut at least the Stenbergs and Arnolds will be there :P
22:31:36markunwould have been nice to meet some more rockbox devs
22:31:39markunmaybe next time
22:33:58 Quit BigMac ()
22:34:12toffe82we should do the devcon and devconwest at the same time with video conference ;)
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22:34:47markunthat would have been nice
22:36:56robin0800markun,What I realy want is to make the battery time display more accurate
22:37:56case_is the Daniel of around here?
22:39:08robin0800markun,This means bing able to find the battery capacity accuretly
22:39:33XavierGryou can't "find" the battery capacity
22:39:48XavierGryou just know that this target has x mAh battery (if not modded)
22:40:05markunrobin0800: there are 2 things you have to find:
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22:40:09XavierGrbased on that and voltage tables you make the ETA algorithm (correct me if I am wrong)
22:40:37markuna table to map the battery voltage to the percentage
22:41:08markunand a factor to calculate the correct remaining time from the percentage and the capacity
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22:41:28markunthe first one you can find by doing a battery benchmark
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22:41:43markunthe second one can be easily computed after that
22:42:06robin0800XavierGr,If the battery benchmark could calculate current part of the job done
22:42:27markunrobin0800: the current doesn't tell you all
22:42:29XavierGrthat can't be done
22:42:36preglowXavierGr: no, i'm busy that weekend
22:42:45markunit depends one how much is left in the battery
22:42:52XavierGrafaik you can't read amperage
22:43:01markunXavierGr: currect
22:43:25markunXavierGr: on a test version of the Gigabeat there was a coulomb meter
22:43:45toffe82I was going to say it :)
22:43:45XavierGrreally? I am surprised
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22:43:53robin0800XavierGr,you don't realy know the capacity after its not new you must calculate it
22:43:57XavierGrexternal or internal?
22:44:24XavierGrrobin: you mean the mAh of the battery (when you say capacity I mean)
22:44:37chrisjs169this isn't good....
22:44:43markunXavierGr: no idea, but it was in the schematics we found in a pdf from Toshiba
22:44:59toffe82markun: I think there is the place for it
22:45:21XavierGrrobin: the capacity of a battery is always the same for the same model (except if the battery is changed)
22:45:33XavierGrnow of course battery capacity should lower as years pass
22:46:16robin0800XavierGr,no not once it's used
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22:47:05robin0800XavierGr,not even years I susspect
22:47:28toffe82markun: did you see something in the code about it ?
22:49:34XavierGr_robin: you can't really do anything about that unless you mod the way that ETA works
22:49:43robin0800XavierGr_,so a method for finding the value would be good
22:50:01XavierGr_robin: but how are you going to measure mAh?
22:50:18chrisjs169when in rockbox, i get some odd 'noise' when the battery is connected. if using only the usb cable or the OF, it's fine
22:51:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:51:13robin0800XavierGr_,you can adjust the capacity in settings you just have to know what to set
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22:52:04 Join entheh [0] (
22:52:27XavierGrI am gonna kill my ISP
22:52:40case_one i've build rockbox from the svn sources, what is the clean way to install it all on my device?
22:53:34markuncase_: "make zip"
22:53:36robin0800XavierGr,hows the voltage measured do we know the impedance?
22:53:54markunand then "unzip -o -d /mnt/player"
22:54:02case_ha great
22:54:12case_you guys rock :)
22:54:28XavierGrrobin: I don't really know that.
22:54:44XavierGrI don't think so but I am clueless
22:54:46chrisjs169so uhh...what could be the cause of this noise?
22:55:04chrisjs169(other than me getting water on the battery, which is now dry)
22:55:59XavierGrrobin: of course you can adjust the mAh but that is because you know it, rockbox can't know about it.
22:56:29robin0800XavierGr,alternativly start a wiki page so any one with an open ipod could do the mesurement and post it
22:56:39XavierGrthe mAh is a rating from the battery company, unless puting an amp meter and drawing all the power from the battery you can't say how many mAh a battery is
22:57:43XavierGrrobin: you mean the rated mAh or the real mAh?
22:58:03 Join donutman25 [0] (n=chatzill@
22:58:13robin0800XavierGr, yes but you can do current and time
22:58:27XavierGrwhich is quite impractical
22:58:41XavierGryou need to open the player and then connect the amp meter between the battery and the circuit
22:58:45 Join dotMH [0] (i=528d75eb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
22:58:57XavierGrwhich not many users (or even developers) will do
22:59:10markunrobin0800: and hard to keep the current constant I think
22:59:38XavierGrmarkun: well that doesn't matter if you want to find the mAh of the battery
22:59:40robin0800XavierGr,a simple resistor in the battery lead would give current
22:59:48XavierGryou just have to run the battery empty
22:59:54dotMHI need help
23:00:17XavierGrmarkun: ah no forget what I said
23:00:48robin0800XavierGr,and time is derived from the battery bench mark test
23:01:00case_chrisjs169, can you tell me where is that patch for the sansa e200 sound ?
23:01:08XavierGrrobin: I lost you
23:01:14XavierGrwhy put a resistor in the battery?
23:01:15n1smarkun: you could plot the current and use some methond for approximating the area under the curve, and now this sounds too much like uni and I will shut up :-)
23:01:29XavierGrhaha indeed
23:01:42robin0800Ohms law
23:01:54XavierGrand what about the resistance of the circuit?
23:02:07chrisjs169case_: the patch that improves the sound (and possibly volume) is FS 6906
23:02:21XavierGrwell if you open the player I guess that you can measure that too, but...
23:02:38XavierGryou won't find many users to do this
23:02:38n1srobin0800: the estimation of runtime will never be very accurate anyway, so doing a precise measurement of the battery is kind of overkill
23:02:42chrisjs169case_: /s/6906/6908
23:03:07robin0800XavierGr,high value resistor 100k measure voltage drop
23:03:38markunrobin0800: maybe you should just do it
23:03:47XavierGrrobin: ok lets say that you finally manage to find YOUR mAh, what about it
23:04:05XavierGrthe other guy next to you will have different mAh if there is a different battery or more used
23:04:19chrisjs169can someone explain why i'm getting this 'screeching' sound in rockbox (sansa) but not in the OF?
23:04:46robin0800you put that value setting
23:05:16 Quit dotMH ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
23:05:20XavierGryeah and that's what rockbox does, puts the default mAh setting for that specific target
23:05:21case_chrisjs169, thanks
23:05:29XavierGrthere isn't anything more that rockbox can do
23:05:42 Quit PaulJam (".")
23:05:47XavierGrbut of course you can meter your battery and then change it
23:05:59XavierGrbut that will be usefull only for you
23:06:00chrisjs169case_: no problem
23:06:05robin0800XavierGr, not on the ipod it dosn't
23:06:26 Join dotMH [0] (i=528d75eb@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:06:30XavierGrwell then someone should measure or find out how many mAh is the battery and correct it with a patch
23:07:26XavierGrand that reminds me that the default mAh setting is the same for all targets afaik, that must be changed, but it seems that no one really cares about it :P
23:07:29chrisjs169i no longer have sound on rockbox...
23:07:57 Quit XavierGr_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:08:22 Part TrueJournals
23:08:29 Quit dotMH (Client Quit)
23:09:22robin0800XavierGr,please address this shall I post a request or is there one already?
23:09:42XavierGrI am not really sure
23:09:47n1sXavierGr: some have the correct default but some just use copied values from the h100, the thing as I understand it is that for the ipods the battery runtime is still so bad compared to the original firmware that people see no point in calibrating these things.
23:10:31n1schanging the default is a simple change in the config-headers, but it will not make the estimation correct
23:10:48XavierGrn1s that would be a valid reason, but given the fact that battery runtime is bad for ages maybe someone should make the default the right setting (and make a correct voltage table)
23:11:18XavierGrbut I don't have an ipod so I won't go in these waters :P
23:12:04XavierGrI think there is a patch that fixed the mAh setting but the ETA is way off
23:12:09n1sXavierGr: I agree that it is better to have it right until it breaks, but I think that the voltage tables should be the same even if the issue gets fixed, they just convert voltage to percent
23:12:22robin0800n1s,I agree
23:13:00case_chrisjs169, the patch fails to apply, probably because i try to patch the last svn revision. where can i find the version of the sources this patch is for ?
23:13:32XavierGrn1s: I thought that the tables are target dependant, so why not change them until the ipod is fixed?
23:13:46XavierGrchange it. (the ipod table I mean)
23:13:56robin0800XavierGr,you can't calibrate them the settings don't go low enough
23:14:12n1sXavierGr: yeah they are target dependant, but shouldn't depend on how much current we draw
23:14:15XavierGrrobin: there is a patch to select the right mAh settting
23:15:04robin0800I know this was my starting point
23:15:10n1srobin0800: you just need a good battery_bench run to calibrate the voltage-percent table
23:15:41XavierGrand then aply the patch that will let you choose the right mAh setting
23:16:08chrisjs169case_: I'm still trying to get my Sansa fixed, so I can't say for sure right now
23:16:09robin0800n1s,does the battery bench change the table?
23:16:26XavierGryou have to change it when you read the log of the battery_bench plugin
23:17:07 Join SirFunk [0] (
23:17:10case_chrisjs169, it seems to be explained in the comments, sorry for disturbing...
23:17:22robin0800XavierGr,I still dont know how to change the table
23:17:33XavierGrrobin: neither do I :P
23:17:41XavierGryou have to digg in the source I guess
23:18:17robin0800XavierGr,don't think i'm up to that
23:19:07XavierGrwell right now I can't help you, sorry, I would have to digg on the source too, but I don't have the time at the moment
23:19:25 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:20:02robin0800XavierGr,shall i post a request?
23:20:06chrisjs169not sure who's on that could help, but i'm getting radio-like noises on my sansa while in Rockbox
23:21:09XavierGrrobin: you could, but please search if there is already one for ir
23:21:17XavierGrI am off for now.
23:21:41 Quit Rondom ("Ex-Chat")
23:21:44dan_a_chrisjs169: This might be a silly question, but does your Sansa have a radio?
23:21:59chrisjs169dan_a_: yeah, it does
23:23:55n1srobin0800: ok, wait for 10 minutes and download the latest svn build and you should be able to set your battery capacity, (will not fix the estimation tho)
23:24:38chrisjs169dan_a_: so....any ideas as to why i'm getting those noises?
23:24:47dan_a_chrisjs169: Do you have the same problem with R13377?
23:25:06_FireFly_why isn't the playlist sorted when doing an recursive insert?
23:25:15chrisjs169dan_a_: Is 13377 the newest revision?
23:25:22case_Ok, still, i can't apply any patch to the last svn sources... what did i missed ?
23:26:11dan_a_chrisjs169: No, that's the revision before the audio from the radio was enabled. Try Saturday's daily build, if you're not using SVN
23:26:52chrisjs169wait, so these noises aren't from me getting barbeque sauce in my sansa? *hopes*
23:28:21dan_a_chrisjs169: You said that you didn't get them in the OF? Unless the OF has turned on the "barbeque sauce noise filter" then I don't think so...
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23:29:05 Join maffe [0] (n=maffe@
23:29:24chrisjs169well, I was brave enough to put the battery in, and the OF didn't have the barbeque sauce filter turned on, so I guess I didn't break anything
23:30:21chrisjs169dan_a_: So the noise I was hearing is actually from the radio?
23:30:23 Quit z35 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:30:28 Join z35_1 [0] (
23:30:45dan_a_chrisjs169: I don't know - so try Saturday's daily build to be sure
23:30:55 Quit juxtap (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
23:33:07 Join jhulst [0] (
23:35:04_FireFly_strange.. if i do an recursive insert of files into a playlist the list isn't sorted correctly...
23:35:35_FireFly_the first file in the playlist is right but the following files are sorted inverse
23:36:24n1s_FireFly_: there is some sort of bug that causes files to be sorted after date, and some oses do write them in that order
23:36:45_FireFly_e.g. files: title1,title2,title3,title4,title5 playlist after recursive insert: title1,title5,title4,title3,title2
23:37:57robin0800n1s,FS #5624 is sort of relivent shall I add a comment to it
23:38:25 Join davina [0] (
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23:39:28n1srobin0800: no need really unless you have additional info, all devs know about the problem but do not prioritize it
23:40:22robin0800I now Know the ipod table is wrong
23:40:48n1syes, and the bug is for swcodec which includes ipods
23:40:53 Quit hannesd_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:41:31robin0800n1s,are none right?
23:43:53 Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
23:45:15n1srobin0800: I think the iriver h100 are the only swcodec target where the estimation is quite right
23:45:18 Quit dan_a_ ()
23:46:25 Part n1s
23:49:59 Quit nickspoon ("Leaving.")
23:51:07 Join byteshack [0] (
23:51:33byteshackdoes rockbox support the Sansa e260, or only the e200?
23:52:01case_e260 is supported
23:52:06byteshackI couldn't figure out if the E200 port is for all e2xx sansas
23:52:56case_i have a e260, but right now i'm not satisfied with the sound quality and volume level
23:53:43byteshackhow do you get data into it? as it does not seem to support USB
23:54:07case_when you plus the cable, it falls back to the vendor firmware
23:54:22case_so you can use it to load things in the device
23:55:17byteshackis there activity on that port? or is it mainly someone's toy?
23:55:53byteshack(front page shows they were recently added)
23:56:02case_acording to what i have read tonight here, there is some activity
23:57:25chrisjs169they're currently working on getting the radio to work
23:58:30case_but i don't understand the interaction between the patches and the svn...
23:58:53byteshackwhere is the svn tree for it?

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