00:00:34 | Domonoky_ | somebody should buy preglow a gigabeat S :-) |
00:00:50 | amiconn | bah |
00:01:03 | amiconn | even more overkill hardware than the gigabeat f and x |
00:01:09 | saratoga | haha |
00:01:13 | amiconn | boooring |
00:01:16 | saratoga | was just going to ask what you thought of this thing |
00:01:37 | saratoga | still, its pretty cheap |
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00:01:54 | amiconn | Does it have a decent lcd? The f and x don't |
00:02:34 | | Quit stripwax ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
00:02:35 | saratoga | they're going around the 100-120 mark on ebay |
00:02:56 | * | amiconn rather pays more for a decent thing, like the h1x0. |
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00:03:45 | saratoga | http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2006/06/toshiba-gigabeat-s30-s60-review.php |
00:03:56 | saratoga | http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2006/06/toshiba-gigabeat-s30-s60-review.php |
00:04:17 | saratoga | "The screen is a 2.4” QVGA 320 x 240 pixel screen. I would compare the screen to something you would find on the latest Windows Mobile Pocket PC." |
00:04:31 | preglow | amiconn: sure, me too, but it's also fun with something new |
00:04:51 | Joely | bluebrother, you still there?? |
00:04:56 | saratoga | still, i hope other players go this way in the future, instead of using proprietrary DSP cores |
00:04:58 | Llorean | saratoga: As far as I'm concerned, most WIndows Mobile devices I've seen have worse screens than the daps I own |
00:05:02 | bluebrother | Joely, yup |
00:05:10 | Joely | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/RockIR |
00:05:12 | amiconn | saratoga: I'm not interested in high resolution, or colour, or sth like that |
00:05:30 | bluebrother | so why not port Rockbox to Windows Mobile and run that on the S? ;-) |
00:05:30 | amiconn | The most important thing is a screen that is readable w/o backlight |
00:05:42 | sejanis | Iriver H10 shows in windows my computer as an "audio device" with no drive letter to load the bootloader and firmware for rockbox, does anyone know a workaround? |
00:05:44 | saratoga | ah, was going to ask what you looked for |
00:05:45 | Joely | bluebrother, i still have to edit that part of the wiki for a while... |
00:05:57 | amiconn | The only rockbox targets which fulfill that are the non-colour ones, and as I recently learned, ipod video and nano |
00:06:14 | Llorean | sejanis: Don't use MTP mode, you have to be in UMS mode |
00:06:30 | amiconn | I even prefer the archos player screen over any of the other colour screens |
00:06:31 | saratoga | i mostly just keep the player in my pocket anyway, so screens aren't a big deal to me |
00:06:32 | bluebrother | Joely, looks like a nice start to read at least. |
00:06:58 | bluebrother | there are color screens around which you can read without backlight? |
00:07:04 | amiconn | yes |
00:07:05 | saratoga | my old gameboy had one |
00:07:09 | preglow | my nano isn't half bad |
00:07:09 | bluebrother | wow |
00:07:14 | preglow | not as good as the h120,but not bad either |
00:07:57 | amiconn | bluebrother: I already knew that there is this kind of colur lcds... and now know that the ipod video and nano fall into this category |
00:08:09 | * | amiconn has to check the video's display in direct sunlight |
00:08:32 | saratoga | that reminds me, I still think the Nintendo DS would be a fun target, since theres CF and SD card adapters for it, and the dev kit already has GPLed drivers |
00:08:33 | | Quit My_Sic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
00:08:37 | saratoga | pointless, but kind of fun |
00:08:45 | preglow | saratoga: i've been thinking about it too... |
00:08:48 | amiconn | ...a situation where all of H3x0, X5 and my mobile phone become totally unreadable, unlike all my archoses and the H1x0 and ipod mini |
00:08:54 | | Quit sejanis () |
00:09:07 | saratoga | preglow: you pick up a flash cart for one yet? |
00:09:28 | preglow | saratoga: don't even have one, but it'd be one of the first things i did pick up |
00:09:36 | saratoga | ah |
00:09:45 | saratoga | i jsut got a DS, lovely piece of hardware |
00:09:52 | saratoga | can't believe how much fun they are |
00:10:02 | preglow | i can, which is why i don't have one |
00:10:02 | preglow | heh |
00:10:14 | | Part maffe |
00:10:23 | preglow | gonna try one next weekend |
00:10:46 | | Quit kokeradio () |
00:11:05 | saratoga | yeah there is a very real danger of your life being consumed by the DS |
00:11:16 | saratoga | it really is that much fun, and you can bring it anyway and just play |
00:11:20 | bluebrother | really? Hasn't applied to me |
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00:11:40 | bluebrother | but maybe that is also caused because I only have this brain jogging cartridge ;-) |
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00:14:35 | preglow | saratoga: definitely looks like stock ffmpeg has a very decent chance of running on this thing, yes |
00:15:20 | Domonoky_ | what about lame as an encoder :-) |
00:15:56 | preglow | it has an on-chip mpeg4 encoder |
00:15:59 | preglow | haha |
00:16:08 | preglow | guess who has silicon to burn |
00:16:33 | amiconn | brrrr |
00:17:09 | saratoga | i PMed toffe asking if hes had a look at the exploit |
00:17:23 | saratoga | where there any other people with S models who were programmers? |
00:17:38 | preglow | dunno |
00:18:18 | moos | ptw is the main guy |
00:18:40 | moos | "main"=the only one for now here :) |
00:19:08 | moos | night all |
00:19:12 | | Quit moos ("Glory to Rockbox") |
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00:23:43 | chrisjs169 | what does 'PANIC Stkov sd' mean? |
00:23:49 | preglow | stack overflow |
00:23:59 | chrisjs169 | so stack overflow on sd? |
00:23:59 | preglow | sd? don't know. sansa? |
00:24:04 | chrisjs169 | yeah |
00:24:10 | preglow | using sd patch? |
00:24:23 | chrisjs169 | yeah, but i don't have an sd card |
00:24:37 | amiconn | That's odd then |
00:24:46 | | Quit BHSPitLappy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
00:25:09 | amiconn | The only situation where the sd thread needs signifiant amounts of stack should be a (re)mount of an sd card |
00:25:28 | amiconn | Unless the sd thread does something weird that the mmc thread on ondio doesn't |
00:25:34 | Llorean | amiconn: The internal flash is "sd" too, I think |
00:25:41 | Llorean | At least, I have an sd stack without the sd patch |
00:25:46 | chrisjs169 | well, it didn't exactly happen to me (i don't have a Sansa with me because Sandisk is taking forever...) but it was a problem someone mentioned on ABi (they don't have a microsd card though) |
00:25:47 | preglow | ah |
00:25:49 | amiconn | Llorean: That doesn't matter, since that can't be hotswapped |
00:26:08 | chrisjs169 | ( http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?p=127035#post127089 ) |
00:26:25 | Llorean | chrisjs169: The ABi people should learn to properly interact with the developers of the software, ie coming here and actually reporting bugs properly, I think. |
00:26:50 | Llorean | amiconn: Yes, but could other activities mean a lot of use of the 'disk' stack? |
00:26:54 | chrisjs169 | Llorean: yeah |
00:27:13 | amiconn | The sd thread doesn't do much when no swapping is involved |
00:27:27 | amiconn | Without hotswap, this thread doesn't even exist |
00:27:40 | Llorean | amiconn: I don't have the sd patch installed, I have an sd thread on my sansa at 75% |
00:27:51 | amiconn | oh? |
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00:27:59 | * | amiconn wonders what it does, then |
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00:28:18 | chrisjs169 | if Llorean is right about the internal memory being sd based (I believe it is too) then is it possible that could be the cause? |
00:28:48 | amiconn | The ondio internal flash is also mmc based, yet the thread is only necessary to handle hotswap |
00:28:59 | Llorean | It could just be poor naming of a thread. |
00:29:21 | amiconn | hmmmmm |
00:29:54 | * | amiconn must be cautious with slapping forehead, in case he watches the channel ;) |
00:30:00 | Llorean | chrisjs169: Though as far as I know, the stkov you're talking about doesn't happen to anyone using the official builds |
00:30:22 | Llorean | I know it's certainly never happened on my Sansa |
00:30:23 | | Join pixelma_ [0] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
00:30:24 | amiconn | The thread also handles ata notification... |
00:30:46 | | Quit pixelma (Nick collision from services.) |
00:30:47 | | Nick pixelma_ is now known as pixelma (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
00:31:20 | toer | * Initializes the plugin. This is called from the main application |
00:31:20 | toer | * when the plugin is first loaded. |
00:31:21 | chrisjs169 | Llorean: it's never happened on mine, but being an 'odd' error that someone mentioned, I figured I'd ask and see what it is (I use a custom build with the SD patch, but never have seen it) |
00:31:29 | | Quit My_Sic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
00:31:44 | pixelma | petur: on my Ondio's recording screen there is one empty line left now ("worst case line-in recording") |
00:32:10 | Llorean | chrisjs169: Until it happens in SVN builds, it's very likely just a symptom of one of the patches. |
00:32:24 | Llorean | chrisjs169: Meaning it's not a bug anyone here necessarily can fix. |
00:32:29 | chrisjs169 | Llorean: ok |
00:32:42 | Llorean | Especially if you have the SD patch installed. |
00:33:03 | petur | pixelma: well it's some time ago since I ran one in the sim, I thought I remembered the display being full |
00:33:29 | | Part landan |
00:33:51 | pixelma | well a bit of info was moved to the status bar some time ago |
00:34:22 | pixelma | (like quality and bitrate) |
00:34:50 | pixelma | s/bitrate/frequency) |
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00:36:59 | | Quit austriancoder ("Kopete 0.12.4 : http://kopete.kde.org") |
00:39:00 | chrisjs169 | Llorean: It seems to have happened to another user on ABi as well... |
00:39:29 | Llorean | chrisjs169: Using an unmodified SVN build? |
00:39:41 | chrisjs169 | I'm getting the impression, but they didn't say |
00:40:08 | Llorean | Well, feel free to ask them. |
00:40:17 | chrisjs169 | I did |
00:40:19 | Llorean | But I'm not sure why they're reporting bugs there if they're using official builds. |
00:40:32 | * | petur gets warned by his h300 that he removed an unenumerated usb device :) |
00:41:02 | Llorean | petur: So, progress? |
00:41:04 | chrisjs169 | Yeah, but I guess they figure it'd be more active there then on Flyspray |
00:41:31 | petur | Llorean: yes, the usb stick now flashes twice :) |
00:41:53 | Llorean | chrisjs169: That doesn't make any sense. How's a bug in the official version supposed to get fixed if people don't report it? |
00:41:55 | petur | but I only see something happening when I remove it :/ |
00:42:11 | Llorean | petur: Still, somewhat exciting news. :-P |
00:42:40 | petur | well I found some time to work on it again :) |
00:42:50 | chrisjs169 | Llorean: I know it doesn't really make sense, but maybe they figure it's common, even though Google shows nothing |
00:43:31 | Llorean | chrisjs169: In the thread you're talking about though, he did say "it was working with sd earlier" (paraphrased) which suggests to me at least that he was using the patch. |
00:43:55 | | Quit ender` (" To get as fewest unhappy people as possible, always bully the same ones.") |
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00:44:26 | chrisjs169 | Llorean: you're right, must have missed that part *now feels it may indeed be the SD patch* |
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00:48:24 | amiconn | chrisjs169: A very quick look at the sd patch tells me why it crashes... and reveals other strangenesses which need to be fixed before it can go into svn |
00:50:10 | | Part krush1704 |
00:50:19 | amiconn | (quick == in the range of seconds) |
00:50:25 | mpeccorini | amiconn: n1s asked me to use the list widget in a patch I made. Everything's done now, but I don't seem to understand the "actions" part. I tried "case ACTION_STD_OK" hoping for the SELECT_BUTTON to trigger that action, but it didn't. can you give me a clue? |
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00:51:03 | mpeccorini | amiconn: I ask you because apparently, you commited the action.c file :p |
00:51:13 | bluebrother | mpeccorini, the button is dependent on the context you are in |
00:51:19 | amiconn | JdGordon is Mr. action |
00:51:53 | mpeccorini | amiconn: is he around? |
00:52:06 | mpeccorini | bluebrother: I don't even know what a context is in this case :( |
00:52:11 | amiconn | And btw, select button doesn't tell much w/o mentioning the target |
00:52:24 | mpeccorini | LOL, you're right, it's an iPod nano |
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00:52:43 | chrisjs169 | so if quick == a few seconds, very quick == ?? I've been away from rockbox for a while, so I can't see why it crashes... |
00:53:01 | scorche | Joely: ping |
00:53:11 | mpeccorini | bluebrother: I don't know what a context is but I'm using CONTEXT_LIST ;) |
00:53:26 | | Part jac0b |
00:53:27 | bluebrother | mpeccorini, that page might be helpful: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ButtonActionIdea |
00:53:43 | bluebrother | might be outdated, but at least it has some text about it ;-) |
00:53:45 | | Join jac0b [0] (n=jac0b@user-1120dm5.dsl.mindspring.com) |
00:53:53 | amiconn | chrisjs169: Stack is too small as the sd stack has to handle remounts with hotswap |
00:54:10 | amiconn | Compare ata-e200.c with ata-mmc.c ... |
00:54:16 | chrisjs169 | amiconn: ok |
00:54:17 | mpeccorini | bluebrother: thanks |
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00:54:24 | amiconn | The sd patch doesn't change this |
00:55:22 | amiconn | disk_mount needs quite a bit of stack |
00:55:55 | amiconn | The other strangeness is that the sd patch replicates the 'remove card...' behaviour of the Ondio |
00:56:31 | amiconn | That's not desired behaviour, it's a technical shortcoming on the Ondio that doesn't apply to the Sansa afaik |
00:56:32 | Joely | hey scorche |
00:57:56 | scorche | Joely: see PM |
00:58:15 | bluebrother | does anyone in here know this debugger? http://www.amontec.com/jtagkey-tiny.shtml |
00:58:26 | jac0b | I am getting an error when I "make" my build with the hotswap patch |
00:58:33 | jac0b | make[1]: *** No rule to make target `export/hotswap.h', needed by `/home/jacob/r |
00:58:33 | jac0b | ockbox/build/firmware/common/disk.o'. Stop. |
00:58:33 | jac0b | make: *** [build] Error 2 |
01:00 |
01:00:01 | otih | Bagder: ping |
01:00:11 | jac0b | can someone help? |
01:01:45 | mpeccorini | jac0b, export/hotswap.h is probably included in another file and is not in the -I path in the makefile for that file |
01:02:30 | jac0b | so do I need to change the make file |
01:02:30 | mpeccorini | jac0b so make tries to compile it by itself and obviously doesn't find a rule to "create" a .h |
01:02:55 | mpeccorini | yes, you need to add a new -I including the folder where "export" is |
01:03:12 | mpeccorini | or change the #include to point to the file |
01:03:47 | * | amiconn thinks that just a full rebuild might help, that regenerates the dep- files |
01:03:53 | amiconn | * dep-* |
01:06:57 | | Part Domonoky_ |
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01:12:35 | jac0b | mpeccorini: I can't find a hotswap.h only a hotswap.o |
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01:13:52 | major_works | jac0b: I ran into the same problem earlier today. |
01:14:09 | major_works | When the patch was reposted a couple of days ago, a bunch of stuff was omitted from it. |
01:14:40 | major_works | You need to compare the latest version to the version before and paste back in the stuff that's missing in the new version. |
01:14:45 | jac0b | major_works: the one posted from today |
01:14:55 | major_works | Yes. |
01:15:22 | jac0b | okay so I need to merge the 2 files togther |
01:15:30 | major_works | Basically, that's right. |
01:15:46 | jac0b | how is that done? |
01:15:54 | major_works | It patched and compiled fine for me after I did so. |
01:16:52 | major_works | Open both versions of the patch in separate Wordpad windows and compare them section by section. |
01:17:22 | major_works | Use the new one as your final version and paste in the stuff from the older one that's missing. |
01:17:29 | major_works | Then patch with that file. |
01:18:15 | * | petur updated his usbotg page. No big breakthrough yet :( |
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01:18:46 | major_works | jac0b: OK? Capische? |
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01:20:48 | * | Nico_P is hoping for a (small) green delta |
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01:22:49 | preglow | Nico_P: what, but that _was_ worth implementing? :P |
01:23:25 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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01:23:32 | bluebrother | moving cuesheets into a different folder removes clutter? |
01:23:49 | Nico_P | bluebrother: from the file browser, yes |
01:24:04 | linuxstb | Why not just make cuesheets not a supported filetype? |
01:24:09 | Nico_P | I know I could just have display set to music instead of all |
01:24:10 | bluebrother | I tend to disagree ... |
01:24:22 | bluebrother | linuxstb was faster −− just wanted to say the same |
01:24:26 | Nico_P | linuxstb: because there are supported |
01:24:34 | Nico_P | s/there/they |
01:24:42 | linuxstb | I know there's a cuesheet viewers, but I can't see the point in that either... |
01:24:53 | linuxstb | ^viewer |
01:25:18 | amiconn | There are other filetypes in rockbox which are supported in a way but not included in the 'supported' view |
01:25:25 | amiconn | ...e.g. the .talk files |
01:25:37 | Llorean | There's somewhat of a history of providing a folder for storing "supplemental" files in Rockbox already |
01:25:43 | Llorean | Specifically the playlist folder for the catalog |
01:25:49 | Nico_P | well at least part of my commit is useful : the duplicate code removal |
01:26:17 | Nico_P | if really everyone is against the other part I'll remove it |
01:26:24 | Nico_P | but I don't see how it hurts anyone |
01:26:35 | preglow | i can tell you of one cuesheet feature you can replace it with :> |
01:27:18 | pixelma | Nico_P: well first - some yellow |
01:27:26 | Nico_P | silly me |
01:27:27 | bluebrother | cuesheets are overrated anyway :-p |
01:27:31 | preglow | i'd rather keep the cuesheet handling simple myself, though, if you ask me it isn't really logical to look for cuesheets any other place than in the dir where the audio track is |
01:27:57 | amiconn | It's not logical to look for cuesheets at all :P |
01:28:22 | preglow | heh |
01:28:27 | * | Llorean finds the FmPresets pages have become ridiculously complex. |
01:28:43 | Nico_P | haha I see cuesheet support is probably rockbox's most mocked feature :) |
01:29:02 | * | amiconn rather uses −−nogap on hwcodec than using cuesheets |
01:29:05 | bluebrother | I never understood what cuesheets are good for on a dap |
01:29:17 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Yes, but I've also forum posts where people say how much they like cuesheet support... |
01:29:23 | pixelma | Llorean: any idea to make them better? |
01:29:34 | linuxstb | bluebrother: Simply so people can play the same files everywhere. |
01:29:35 | bluebrother | Llorean, maybe something similar to rockbox-themes for fm presets? |
01:29:41 | Llorean | pixelma: Well, it's all the individual .zip files, mainly |
01:30:01 | Llorean | Someone adding a .fmr file is required to update many files, rather than just adding his text update to the page, then updating the one "total" .zip. |
01:30:10 | Nico_P | bluebrother: now I can listen to chaptered podcasts in a nice way |
01:30:13 | Llorean | It really doesn't need all the divisions it's given, I think. |
01:30:13 | bluebrother | and a script could generate the zip file on the fly |
01:30:15 | amiconn | (especially now that I have a nice automating transcoding script) :) |
01:30:18 | preglow | i think cuesheet support is great |
01:30:21 | Llorean | bluebrother: A script would make it even easier, yes. |
01:30:29 | preglow | it even turned out better than i expected |
01:30:38 | | Quit lee-qid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
01:30:39 | pixelma | Llorean: s/he he can start by just uploading the .fmr |
01:30:43 | Llorean | Yeah |
01:30:47 | bluebrother | I might even be interested in looking into it. When I manage to finish this uni stuff :o |
01:30:48 | Nico_P | preglow: how's that ? |
01:31:26 | Llorean | pixelma: I just think the process should be simple: 1) Download the complete .zip. 2) Add your FMR to the appropriate place. 3) Go to the corresponding wiki page for the .fmr and upload it, then overwrite the complete .zip |
01:31:41 | Llorean | Instead we may often have a "USA" zip that contains presets the complete one doesn't, or vice versa. |
01:31:45 | Llorean | There's even a Texas zip. |
01:31:48 | jac0b | major_works: sorry its my g/f's b-day had to cut the cake, but thanks for the help |
01:31:56 | pixelma | Llorean: I just wanted them to state when it was uploaded so someone knows that this specific fmr might not be included in the zip |
01:32:07 | bluebrother | Llorean, I would prefer to be able downloading individual files |
01:32:09 | chrisjs169 | having nothing else to do, I was looking at the sd stack overflow problem, and noticed that there's also a mmc_stack in addition to sd_stack. what's the difference? |
01:32:18 | Llorean | bluebrother: Downloading individual .fmr files should be fine. |
01:32:22 | Llorean | bluebrother: But I don't like regional compilations. |
01:32:32 | Llorean | Unless they're automatically updated on .fmr upload |
01:32:39 | bluebrother | so, I think it would be best to automate that. |
01:32:51 | preglow | Nico_P: seeking performed better than i would have thought |
01:33:09 | Nico_P | preglow: in speed or precision ? |
01:33:18 | Llorean | bluebrother: Automation would make me just as happy. |
01:33:18 | bluebrother | either update compilations on file upload, or (that is a bit more what I'm thinking of) give the user a list with all files and let him tick those he wants. |
01:33:24 | pixelma | Llorean: the main concern was just that the list(s) got very long |
01:33:26 | bluebrother | and then generate a zip file with all those files on the fly |
01:33:36 | Llorean | pixelma: I'm all for dividing the pages up so it's readable. |
01:33:41 | | Quit PaulJam (".") |
01:34:04 | Llorean | pixelma: As I said, the only thing that makes me unhappy is that there are multiple .zip files that may or may not be in sync. |
01:34:05 | | Quit Thundercloud_ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
01:34:23 | * | bluebrother puts a note to his todo list |
01:34:27 | Llorean | One .zip file was already iffy enough, I thought, because an upload date just tells you when the last person added to it, not whether it's actually complete relative to the full list. |
01:34:40 | * | linuxstb wonders why people seem to be abbreviating place names to 8 characters in the FM presets |
01:34:57 | bluebrother | man, will I ever get able cutting down that list before I'm really old? |
01:34:59 | pixelma | surely I can understand that |
01:34:59 | preglow | Nico_P: precision |
01:35:16 | Nico_P | :) |
01:35:25 | Nico_P | well that's not my code anyway... it's all in the codecs |
01:35:43 | linuxstb | Nico_P: I still get annoyed by the cue-sheet specific seeking behaviour though - i.e. not seeking back to the start of the current track when pressing PREV. |
01:35:49 | Nico_P | but I'm pleased you like it... funny how some people love it and other hate it |
01:35:58 | preglow | Nico_P: how is it possible to hate it? |
01:36:03 | preglow | it's not even intrusive |
01:36:08 | pixelma | linuxstb: guess most of it was my fault (still working from the assumption that they aren't allowed to be longer) :/ |
01:36:12 | Nico_P | preglow: ask amiconn:) |
01:36:26 | Nico_P | linuxstb: I am too but I really didn't find how to do it the right way |
01:36:27 | preglow | Nico_P: he hates cuesheets, not the cuesheet support |
01:36:45 | Llorean | pixelma: Perhaps the whole problem is more related to the fact that it's not manageable at all, anyway. =/ |
01:36:48 | preglow | if you don't like cuesheets, i assume you keep the feature switched off |
01:37:03 | Nico_P | linuxstb: the problem is mainly with VBR MP3 I think |
01:37:12 | preglow | i'd just like it to be always on and remove the setting |
01:37:14 | Nico_P | preglow: 100% agreed |
01:37:42 | amiconn | 100% disagreed |
01:37:47 | Llorean | linuxstb: The wiki page actually says "(the name must be less than 8 characters long)" |
01:38:01 | amiconn | A waste of ram for no good... cuesheets are flawed by design |
01:38:08 | preglow | sure |
01:38:16 | pixelma | Llorean: that's outdated |
01:38:17 | Nico_P | amiconn: I agreed on the "if you don't like cuesheets, i assume you keep the feature switched off" |
01:38:18 | preglow | still doesn't prevent the fact that a lot of them exists |
01:38:34 | preglow | mp3 is also quite old and crummy, better codecs exist now |
01:38:40 | preglow | so we should remove support, right? |
01:38:42 | Llorean | Of course |
01:38:43 | preglow | waste of good ram |
01:38:58 | Llorean | Remove support for "until the patent climate becomes less hostile to those using MP3 technology" |
01:39:44 | amiconn | preglow: I don't say the feature should be removed... but the option to disable it has to stay |
01:40:02 | preglow | pft, what is an extra disk access these days anyway ;) |
01:40:32 | amiconn | Still, I haven't seen any cuesheets in the wild, only temporary ones (for ripping cds), and the one I created deliberately for testing the feature on archos |
01:40:49 | preglow | i've seen plenty, lots of people still don't know better |
01:41:12 | idnar | I've often seen CDs distributed as a single FLAC/wavpack/whatever file with a cuesheet |
01:41:35 | | Quit bluebrother ("Leaving") |
01:41:40 | idnar | rather annoying, the first thing I usually do with it is to cut it up |
01:41:40 | preglow | yeap |
01:41:43 | Nico_P | amiconn: I have now found a way to extract a cuesheet from a chaptered MP4 podcast... that's at least one major use I will have until real chapter support arrives (if it does one day) |
01:41:48 | preglow | amiconn: why are cuesheets flawed by design, btw? |
01:42:00 | | Quit robin0800 (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it") |
01:42:01 | Nico_P | I would never dream of cutting a podcast |
01:42:05 | chrisjs169 | what's the difference between sd_stack and mcc_stack? |
01:42:05 | Nico_P | too much of a hassle |
01:42:19 | idnar | ah, yeah, something like a podcast is different, I guess |
01:42:29 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Do you have any links to chaptered mp4 files I could download? |
01:42:39 | preglow | i don't want to cut anything, i want rockbox to be able to listen to my music as it is |
01:42:49 | preglow | if i have to pre-process anything, rockbox is wasting my time |
01:43:02 | amiconn | preglow: Why shoudl I concatenate separate tracks and the have a list where the split points should be, rather than having the tracks separate as they should be |
01:43:05 | Nico_P | linuxstb: sure. http://nicolas.pennequin.free.fr/rockbox/dancin-2007-01-06_51.53.m4b |
01:43:18 | Nico_P | you might not like the music though :) |
01:43:18 | amiconn | Also, a bunch of smaller files is easier to handle than a single giant one |
01:43:38 | preglow | amiconn: that's a matter of preference, some people would say they prefer fewer files to many |
01:43:49 | linuxstb | Nico_P: It's OK, I don't plan on listening to it... ;) |
01:43:52 | Nico_P | amiconn: in the case of a podcast, the tracks are concatenated to begin with |
01:43:53 | amiconn | Something like chapter marks _in_ the file make some sense... though not with music either |
01:44:27 | Nico_P | linuxstb: today I wrote a program to extract the chapters as a cuesheet |
01:45:01 | linuxstb | Why extract them, why not just read them in Rockbox? |
01:45:03 | Llorean | Nico_P: Could that just be incorporated into an interaction between the metadata parser and cuesheet handling without an intermediary file? |
01:45:19 | preglow | amiconn: it depends, some might say one cd "belongs" in one file |
01:45:40 | preglow | amiconn: and stuff like dj sets also fit logically in one file |
01:45:41 | Nico_P | Llorean: I'd love that but my program actually uses an other one that outputs an SRT file and then parses the SRT to a CUE |
01:45:50 | preglow | while track info might still be nice |
01:45:56 | amiconn | preglow: Then the metadata would belong there as well, and not in a separate file |
01:46:01 | Llorean | Nico_P: I'm guessing the SRT one isn't GPL then. |
01:46:21 | preglow | amiconn: agreed, but i believe that qualifies more as "impractical" than "flawed by design" |
01:46:24 | Nico_P | Llorean: not sure... it's open source though : MP4Box from GPAC |
01:46:45 | Nico_P | I'll have a look at it |
01:47:41 | Llorean | Nico_P: LGPL |
01:47:56 | Llorean | At least, GPAC is described as that at their official site. |
01:48:52 | Nico_P | Llorean: then MP4Box is too |
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01:56:11 | preglow | bedtime |
01:57:13 | | Part isaac_w |
01:59:54 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Does that example m4b file do chapters the Apple way or the Standard way? |
02:00 |
02:00:06 | Nico_P | linuxstb: the Apple way |
02:00:13 | | Quit amigan (Connection timed out) |
02:00:34 | linuxstb | Nico_P: So you think mp4box can read Apple chapters, but not write them? |
02:00:43 | Nico_P | that's it |
02:01:16 | Nico_P | but I don't have an iPod or iTunes to check that |
02:02:10 | Nico_P | and actually I think there's no real standard way of doing chapters in MP4 |
02:02:31 | Llorean | If we're going to add support for chaptered MP4, perhaps we should fix the long standing "MP4s over a certain size don't play" issue |
02:02:48 | Llorean | If it's even fixable. |
02:03:08 | * | Llorean doesn't remember ever quite being told what caused it. |
02:04:26 | | Part TrueJournals |
02:07:16 | Nico_P | that would be a good question for Lear |
02:08:07 | Llorean | Right now if I stumble across a long AAC format file, it's always spoken word anyway, so I convert it to speex first, and just be done with it. |
02:08:16 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Are you sure they're chapters? They just look like subtitles - SRT is a subtitle format... |
02:08:41 | Nico_P | Llorean: mine are music |
02:08:59 | Nico_P | linuxstb: you're right. they seem to be only subtitles |
02:09:05 | Nico_P | but there are also pictures |
02:09:25 | Nico_P | maybe adding an SRT track would be enough |
02:10:00 | | Part pixelma |
02:12:38 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Have you tried playing that file in Rockbox? |
02:12:49 | Nico_P | it plays nicely |
02:15:31 | | Quit BHSPitLappy ("Leaving") |
02:15:56 | Nico_P | the cuesheet I got from it seems to be screwed up though |
02:16:05 | Nico_P | og I know why |
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02:16:43 | Nico_P | rockbox thinks it's half as long as it actually is, because of the frequency |
02:17:05 | linuxstb | I thought Lear fixed that recently? |
02:17:33 | Nico_P | he fixed the playback speed but apparently there are still a few issues left |
02:18:15 | Shak- | how come theres no feature chart for the sansa e200 series on the rockbox site? |
02:18:19 | Nico_P | linuxstb: if you want I can give you links to files that don't have that problem |
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02:18:58 | linuxstb | Nico_P: No, that's OK. |
02:19:29 | Llorean | Shak-: Because nobody's updated the page, and not all hardware features are implemented yet (no FM Radio, no SD slot, etc) |
02:19:44 | Llorean | Shak-: Assuming you're talking about the feature comparison table, it's not updated often these days |
02:20:09 | Shak- | ah |
02:20:40 | Llorean | Basically, it existed because there was a good deal of difference between what the H100 and the Archos could do under Rockbox, I believe. |
02:21:02 | Llorean | Nowadays, most software codec players are pretty much the same other than a few general rules like "If it doesn't have a radio chip, it can't do radio" |
02:21:03 | amiconn | It compares rockbox vs. of |
02:23:06 | amiconn | Not many people can update that, as it requires knowledge about what the of can do |
02:23:25 | * | amiconn couldn't even update the comparison table for some of the targets he has |
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02:24:37 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Looking at that m4b file in hex editor, it seems full of all kinds of rubbish - xml files, pngs, jpegs, ... But it seems that the chapter information (at least the track titles) is multiplexed within the file, not neatly at the start. So reading it in Rockbox may not be very efficient. |
02:24:41 | Llorean | I think dropping the OF comparison aspect of it from the list entirely may be useful. Instead just a comparison of what various players can do under Rockbox |
02:24:54 | Shak- | is rockbox the only effort for new firmware on media players (besides ipodlinux for the ipods) |
02:25:44 | amiconn | Llorean: I don't agree. That would remove the main point of the chart, and would just convert it into a rockbox feature list |
02:25:57 | Nico_P | linuxstb: yes, I read that somewhere about AtomicParsley: it would require a muxer/demuxer to be able to read/write this kind of chapter info |
02:25:58 | linuxstb | Shak-: There's the archopen project for the newer Archos devices. |
02:26:48 | linuxstb | Nico_P: If Rockbox can play the file, then it must contain demuxing code. |
02:27:12 | Nico_P | linuxstb: yes, so maybe it would be possible to demux the SRT with not too much code |
02:27:16 | linuxstb | So that would be a start - you would then need to change it to demux the subtitle stream instead of the audio stream. |
02:27:38 | linuxstb | Although the demux code will be in the codec, not in the core (get_metadata) where it's needed for chapter parsing. |
02:28:43 | Shak- | is the iriver clix on the to-do list at all for iriver devices? |
02:29:37 | amiconn | There is no to-do list for targets |
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02:30:31 | Shak- | do you have it in mind, rather |
02:30:44 | Nico_P | Shak-: no rockbox developer owns it |
02:31:02 | Nico_P | and no owner has manifested the desire to port rockbox on it |
02:31:03 | Shak- | ah |
02:31:17 | Nico_P | not that I know of at least |
02:31:37 | Shak- | do the rockbox developers get media player donations? |
02:33:01 | linuxstb | A lot of the money donated to Rockbox is used to buy hardware. |
02:34:04 | linuxstb | I think some people/companies have donated hardware - e.g. Sandisk donated a couple of Sansas. |
02:35:00 | jac0b | now I am getting a different error on the sd-card patch |
02:35:03 | jac0b | patch: **** malformed patch at line 111: @@ -1208,6 +1208,9 @@ |
02:35:21 | jac0b | should I change the 1208,9 to 1208,6 |
02:35:47 | Joely | jac0b which patch is it? |
02:36:20 | jac0b | the sd-card patch |
02:36:31 | | Quit jchord () |
02:36:31 | Nico_P | linuxstb: maybe a wiki page about MP4 chapters could be nice |
02:36:50 | Joely | jac0b, url? i meant |
02:36:51 | jac0b | major_works said to compare the old and new diff files and paste the changes to the new one |
02:37:10 | jac0b | joely: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7134 |
02:37:10 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Yes, although I don't use mp4 for anything... |
02:38:06 | Nico_P | maybe I'll have a go at it tomorrow and upload my tools to it |
02:38:16 | Nico_P | with the information I found today |
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02:39:45 | | Part krush1704 |
02:39:47 | linuxstb | Nico_P: And some links to freely downloadable podcasts using such chapters could be useful as well. |
02:40:02 | Nico_P | good idea |
02:40:13 | Nico_P | I think atomicparsley has some example files |
02:40:29 | linuxstb | who/what/where is atomicparsley? |
02:40:52 | * | linuxstb got an answer from google |
02:41:06 | Nico_P | http://atomicparsley.sourceforge.net/ |
02:41:09 | Nico_P | ok :) |
02:41:23 | Nico_P | it's dedicated to iTunes tags |
02:42:10 | Nico_P | and it has example files : http://atomicparsley.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/atomicparsley/trunk/samples/ |
02:42:36 | jac0b | what does "(Stripping trailing CRs from patch.)" mean? |
02:42:57 | Nico_P | jac0b: that means your patch had windows-style line endings |
02:42:59 | | Quit kennethd (Remote closed the connection) |
02:43:03 | Nico_P | and patch likes linux-style line endings |
02:43:11 | jac0b | its no problem right |
02:43:36 | Nico_P | apparently not, but it's better to have your patch files linux-style |
02:43:50 | jac0b | oh okay |
02:43:51 | Nico_P | actually it's "unix-style" |
02:44:37 | jac0b | joely: did you check out the diff's |
02:45:17 | Joely | yes....i still don't see what's the problem... |
02:45:22 | Joely | what are you trying to do? |
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02:45:36 | jac0b | patch the current build with the sd-card patch |
02:45:43 | jac0b | look at line 103 |
02:45:46 | Joely | ok |
02:46:00 | jac0b | opps 111 |
02:46:08 | jac0b | that is where the problem is |
02:46:19 | Joely | it went perfectly |
02:46:30 | Joely | wait |
02:46:36 | Joely | sd? or hotswap? |
02:46:56 | Joely | hotswap includes sd i think |
02:47:12 | jac0b | yeah I think so |
02:47:13 | | Join rushfan [0] (n=rushfan@adsl-65-43-145-147.dsl.bcvloh.ameritech.net) |
02:47:20 | rushfan | How do I completely erase my database and rebuild it? |
02:47:25 | Joely | http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7134?getfile=13997 |
02:48:15 | Joely | jac0b are you on windows? |
02:48:24 | | Quit webguest43 (Client Quit) |
02:48:24 | jac0b | yep |
02:48:36 | Joely | using cygwin or native utils to patch? |
02:48:41 | rushfan | supposing selecting initialize now should do that but it didnt work for me |
02:49:09 | Llorean | rushfan: What do you mean by "it didn't work" exactly? |
02:49:10 | jac0b | that is what I am using is cygwin |
02:50:08 | Joely | use wget to download http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7134?getfile=13997 then from cygwin |
02:50:11 | rushfan | Llorean: It added the new songs. But didnt erase the ones I deleted |
02:50:32 | Llorean | rushfan: And what happens when you try to play one of the deleted songs, exactly? |
02:50:39 | rushfan | It says No File! |
02:51:11 | Llorean | Usually when you "Initialize Now" if old songs show back up after the reboot, and the commit, that means they're in the recycle bin. |
02:51:21 | rushfan | recycle bin? |
02:51:25 | Llorean | After "Initialize Now", did you shut down the device, turn it back on, and see "Committing" |
02:51:32 | rushfan | no |
02:51:34 | Llorean | Recycle Bin, Trash Can, or some form of undelete hidden folder. |
02:51:35 | rushfan | should I shut it down after? |
02:51:41 | Llorean | Yes. |
02:51:56 | Llorean | Initializing requires you restart to commit the first time, and re-initializing has the same requirements |
02:52:07 | Llorean | You're probably looking at the old database, still loaded to RAM if you enabled that. |
02:52:36 | rushfan | thank you. Now its rebuilding the database :D |
02:52:40 | rushfan | Ill remember that next time around |
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02:54:22 | | Part rushfan |
02:56:20 | jac0b | joely: didn't work either |
02:56:35 | Joely | how are you patching? |
02:56:51 | Joely | patch -p0 < hotswap.patch |
02:57:01 | jac0b | yep |
02:57:05 | jac0b | hotswap.diff |
02:57:16 | Joely | yeah, i just renamed it |
02:57:17 | Joely | haha |
02:57:27 | jac0b | it fails on "make" |
02:57:47 | Joely | did you _just_ sync with svn? |
02:57:51 | Joely | check your revision |
02:58:01 | Joely | i'm at 13509 |
02:58:08 | jac0b | 13509 |
02:59:03 | Joely | hmm do you think it's a thing with cygwin? |
03:00 |
03:01:49 | jac0b | how do I rename in linux/cygwin again |
03:02:01 | Joely | you could use mv |
03:02:18 | Joely | or rename |
03:02:59 | jac0b | I am trying it with just cygwin |
03:03:39 | jac0b | b/c before I used wget but renamed the file with windows |
03:03:44 | Joely | if you want i can build you a rockbox build...if you want to trust me. otherwise i guess i can just set up a native windows compiling env with patch and all the standard utils... |
03:03:54 | jac0b | nope still get the error |
03:04:07 | jac0b | make[1]: *** No rule to make target `export/hotswap.h', needed by `/home/jacob/r |
03:04:07 | jac0b | ockbox/build/firmware/common/disk.o'. Stop. |
03:04:07 | jac0b | make: *** [build] Error 2 |
03:05:53 | jac0b | that is the same one I got before and major_works said I need to merge http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7134?getfile=13997 & http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7134?getfile=13990 |
03:06:05 | jac0b | to get it to work |
03:06:24 | Joely | why do you need both? |
03:06:55 | | Join major_works [0] (n=a08e9562@gw01.penton.com) |
03:07:17 | major_works | jac0b: Are you sure you got all the missing bits from the older version into the newer one? |
03:07:43 | major_works | One of the missing bits, IIRC, was hotswap.h in total. |
03:08:33 | major_works | Make sure there's a hunk in your combined hotswap.diff file labeled hotswap.h. |
03:09:30 | | Join Daishi [0] (n=daishi@ool-18be2884.dyn.optonline.net) |
03:10:30 | jac0b | http://www.divshare.com/download/767239-9fe there is the merged hotswap.diff file |
03:10:40 | jac0b | I am pretty sure I got everything |
03:11:25 | jac0b | sorry but I have to go (get ready for dreded work) |
03:12:09 | jac0b | I will have to pick up on this tomorrow, but thanks everyone for the help |
03:13:03 | major_works | PM me on ABi tomorrow and tell me where I can send you my version of the patch. |
03:13:51 | jac0b | jacbrooksATgmailDOTcom |
03:13:58 | jac0b | thanks major_works |
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03:14:19 | major_works | OK, I'll send it now. Don't know if it'll help but you may as well try it. |
03:14:27 | major_works | It worked for me twice now. |
03:15:12 | | Quit major_works ("major_works has left the building...") |
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03:23:29 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
03:31:33 | Joely | also was hotswap-target.h and hotswap.c.... |
03:31:39 | Joely | oh wait, he left, d'oh |
03:33:06 | | Quit jac0b () |
03:34:23 | XavierGr | does the 8 character-long limitation exist on settings that require a path for files? (e.g fm presets, setting files etc.) |
03:35:24 | XavierGr | because the part on that says not longer than 8 characters name on the FmPresets wiki page was written by me. At the time all those files should be less than 8 characters in order for rockbox to remember them on the next boot |
03:36:04 | XavierGr | but at that time the default settings file was written on a special disk sector instead of a simple file |
03:36:59 | XavierGr | so for sector capacity reasons the path to those files was not stored on te settings file (.cfg) |
03:37:22 | XavierGr | I should probably test it my self |
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03:38:39 | | Quit element_g (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
03:42:48 | XavierGr | well at least on radio level the limitation still applies, if you want the preset to be remembered after boot, it must be saved on the /.rockbox/fmpresets directory |
03:43:01 | XavierGr | I am not sure though if that limitation exists anymore on the saving of the configuration file |
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03:53:57 | Joely | http://phpfi.com/237769?download <−− is that what major_works and jac0b were looking for? |
03:54:15 | Joely | that patches fine for me |
03:54:32 | Joely | has all the needed files.. |
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03:55:50 | Soap2 | scorche - thanks for the added !s to the wiki |
03:57:26 | Joely | ah oops, i'm still working on what i added...sorry about that :-/ |
04:00 |
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04:56:57 | JdGordon | any recording addits here? |
04:57:00 | JdGordon | addicts* |
04:57:22 | JdGordon | and of course, by addict, I mean anyone who actually uses the recording stuff.... |
05:00 |
05:17:31 | BHSPitMonkey | JdGordon, just ask your question... ;) |
05:17:33 | BHSPitMonkey | heh |
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06:00 |
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06:27:13 | JdGordon | BHSPitMonkey: :p |
06:27:23 | JdGordon | anyone wanna test a patch for the rec code? |
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06:34:51 | Joely | me me!!! |
06:34:57 | Joely | sansa right? |
06:35:12 | JdGordon | hehe no, not enablin recordin on the sansa |
06:35:32 | Joely | aww |
06:36:03 | Joely | what's it for then? |
06:36:12 | JdGordon | surprise :) |
06:36:26 | JdGordon | commitintg it anyway seen as its so small and works :p |
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06:55:18 | RMenes379 | Hello there! |
06:56:38 | RMenes379 | Someone around? |
06:56:59 | Zider | yeps |
06:57:48 | RMenes379 | I just registered on the Rockbox Wiki to do some editing and contribution. |
06:58:06 | Zider | I've been planning to do that too |
06:58:07 | Joely | hey RMenes379 |
06:58:16 | Zider | for a couple of days at least ;) |
06:59:05 | RMenes379 | Mine's longer term than that. |
06:59:17 | RMenes379 | Mine's for as long as I'm using Rockbox. |
06:59:24 | RMenes379 | Which will be for a good long time. |
06:59:36 | Zider | I don't have a supported player, so.. :) |
06:59:48 | RMenes379 | What are you using? |
06:59:56 | Zider | iriver S10 |
07:00 |
07:00:28 | RMenes379 | Have you tried to look for any technical information about the player? |
07:00:39 | RMenes379 | Perhaps you can help jump start a new port for it. |
07:00:43 | Zider | I've found pictures of the interior |
07:00:53 | Zider | that's what I was planning on posting |
07:02:02 | RMenes379 | Wait... the iriver S10... which one is that one? |
07:02:07 | RMenes379 | I haven't seen that model. |
07:02:09 | Zider | tiny 2GB player |
07:02:13 | Zider | quite new |
07:02:27 | alienbiker99 | oh that one, thats really small |
07:02:32 | Zider | http://images.enet.com.cn/cimg/2006/1221/c_1166694960_2.jpg |
07:02:34 | Zider | yeah |
07:02:51 | RMenes379 | The only irivers that I've seen up close are the H120 and H320. |
07:02:57 | RMenes379 | But that's what I want to post. |
07:03:12 | alienbiker99 | i miss my H120 |
07:03:14 | RMenes379 | My girlfriend gave me her FM presets from her iriver H320 for the New York City region. |
07:03:44 | RMenes379 | And I want to post it to the wiki, seeing that the only two regions posted for New York are both upstate. |
07:04:28 | Zider | ahh I found the pics again :) |
07:04:43 | alienbiker99 | RMenes379 what stations? |
07:04:59 | Zider | I dunno how to start anything at the wiki tho |
07:05:11 | Zider | I suck at formulating stuff like that |
07:05:13 | RMenes379 | All of the major stations from New York City and surrounding regions. |
07:05:37 | alienbiker99 | i listen to some NYC stations, less now, i live in central jersey so i get a lot of stations |
07:06:21 | RMenes379 | But isn't that a pain? I mean, whenever I travel across Jersey, right around halfway through the state I lose the NYC stations and start receiving the Philadelphia stations. |
07:06:40 | RMenes379 | A pain, it is! |
07:07:16 | alienbiker99 | it depends, it gets annoying but i dont travel to south jersey a lot but when i do usually just play stuff from my mp3 player |
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07:08:16 | alienbiker99 | i didnt even know there was a fm preset page on the wiki |
07:08:38 | RMenes379 | You can reach it via the Extras menu. |
07:08:50 | RMenes379 | At the bottom. |
07:09:54 | alienbiker99 | on the wiki or in rockbox? |
07:10:28 | RMenes379 | From the main Rockbox page, pick the "Extras" on the sidebar, then scroll to the bottom of the page, and you'll see the link to the FM Presets. |
07:10:50 | alienbiker99 | oh ah isee |
07:11:04 | alienbiker99 | i killed my H120 =( and my H320 battery is dead |
07:11:14 | alienbiker99 | ballooned on me |
07:12:08 | RMenes379 | A shame, that is. The irivers are some great little devices. |
07:12:09 | Zider | ballooned? |
07:12:25 | RMenes379 | Did he blow it up like a beautiful balloon? :) |
07:12:29 | Zider | there's two things I don't like with this S10 |
07:12:34 | Zider | small things tho |
07:12:37 | alienbiker99 | hahah its like internally explodes sorta |
07:13:01 | RMenes379 | What's bad about the S10? |
07:13:13 | chainlynx | hey all, I have a fourth-generation (grayscale) ipod and I'm installing rockbox for the first time... I've downloaded and installed the current build for my platform, but I don't (think) I have the fonts package installed yet... I've downloaded the fonts zip file but the docs don't say where to put it on the iPod... does anyone know where I'm supposed to stick the fonts files? |
07:13:18 | Zider | they use some weirdo playlist format, and not m3u/pls.. and they don't turn off completely, they just go down in "powesave mode" |
07:13:18 | alienbiker99 | its a replacement battery and most of them balloon, but im in the process of tryingto find a working motherboard for the H120 |
07:13:30 | alienbiker99 | Zider pls or plp? |
07:13:35 | Zider | .pla |
07:13:54 | alienbiker99 | ah thats what i meant, yeah its what they use on MTP devices |
07:14:00 | RMenes379 | chainlynx: Open the fonts zip file, and just extract that folder to the root of your device. |
07:14:10 | Zider | and it's a really dumb format too |
07:14:19 | Zider | I hacked up a script to create playlists |
07:14:38 | alienbiker99 | and it really only started going to sleep mode with the H10 ...trying to be ipod like |
07:15:03 | Zider | it CAN be turned off completely.. but you need to access the reset button for that :P |
07:15:11 | alienbiker99 | Zider, ive been looking for a script for my gigabeat, but trying to find one that doesnt copy the song a second time |
07:15:15 | Zider | I'm nagging them for a setting for ut ;) |
07:15:22 | Zider | it |
07:15:55 | RMenes379 | I never liked that sleep mode with the iPod. |
07:15:59 | chainlynx | RMenes379: ah, ok, as simple as that... thanks |
07:16:09 | Zider | I never liked iPods ;) |
07:16:21 | RMenes379 | But Rockbox makes them all the better. |
07:16:34 | Zider | they're still ugly |
07:16:45 | Zider | and all Appley |
07:16:53 | Zider | and HUGE ;) |
07:17:02 | RMenes379 | Would you rather... a ZUNE?? *BUM BUM BUUUUUUM* |
07:17:07 | Zider | a what? |
07:17:15 | RMenes379 | My thoughts exactly. |
07:17:19 | chainlynx | they just passed a million sold, didn't they? |
07:17:32 | Zider | eww, a microsoft thing :P |
07:17:34 | scorche | this is a bit offtopic.. |
07:17:39 | Zider | and even huger |
07:17:55 | alienbiker99 | they really arent bad |
07:18:01 | RMenes379 | At least Apple's less evil. |
07:18:13 | * | scorche coughs |
07:18:23 | alienbiker99 | oh if somebody has a wiki account can they please change the note on the buyersguide about the 80gb not being compatible with rockbox |
07:18:37 | Zider | scorche: we're not supposed to talk about mp3 players..? |
07:18:43 | RMenes379 | I need permission to write to the wiki. |
07:18:53 | RMenes379 | That's what I came for in the first place. |
07:18:57 | scorche | Zider: you are supposed to talk about rockbox |
07:19:03 | scorche | this isnt a social channel |
07:19:16 | Zider | scorche: sorry then :P |
07:20:38 | scorche | alienbiker99: done, but someone else will have to put it on the table |
07:22:02 | scorche | RMenes379: what were you planning on editing? |
07:22:18 | RMenes379 | My girlfriend gave me her FM presets from her iriver H320. |
07:22:37 | scorche | and what is your wikiname? |
07:22:44 | RMenes379 | She and I live in the New York City area, so the presets are for this region and surrounding areas. |
07:22:46 | RMenes379 | RobertMenes |
07:22:53 | alienbiker99 | ok i would but no ipod for me =D |
07:23:34 | scorche | RMenes379: done |
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07:24:06 | RMenes379 | Okay, so how to I upload the .fmr? |
07:24:47 | RMenes379 | Wait... found it. |
07:24:58 | RMenes379 | I'll be right back. |
07:26:32 | RMenes379 | I attached the .fmr to the wiki, but I think something's off. |
07:27:46 | RMenes379 | scorche: Can you see if it looks correct? |
07:30:10 | RMenes379 | Actually, before I leave, I wanted to ask one question to any Rockboxers in New York City with FM radio targets. |
07:31:16 | RMenes379 | Can any of you receive 100.3 Mhz (Z100) clearly on your players? |
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07:54:01 | chainlynx | about rockbox's dual-booting: I can get the ipod to switch over to the original apple firmware from rockbox... how do I switch it back to rockbox? Powering down does no good... do I just have to wait until it goes into a deep sleep (wait a few hours w/o power to it)? |
07:54:25 | Llorean | Hold Menu+Select to reboot |
07:54:33 | Llorean | The Apple firmware doesn't power down naturally, it only 'sleeps' |
07:55:51 | chainlynx | Llorean: works beautifully, thanks |
08:00 |
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08:06:22 | chainlynx | Can someone give me write access to the wiki, please? |
08:17:14 | midkay | chainlynx: sure.. your username? |
08:18:24 | midkay | chainlynx: done.. :) |
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08:23:10 | chainlynx | midkay: thanks |
08:26:17 | midkay | no prob |
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08:41:45 | JdGordon | Slasheri: hey, do you tihnk it would take up reworking to add a tag in he tagnavi_custom.config file which would allow you to add a submenu into an exsisting menu? |
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08:59:19 | Slasheri | JdGordon: hmm, that should be possible to do |
09:00 |
09:00:28 | JdGordon | Slasheri: I tinhk that is better than just having the option of adding more menus, seen as the layout of the default menu is ussualy great, just needs some minor additions |
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09:02:48 | Slasheri | JdGordon: iirc sub menu entries are just pointer references so it should be able to allocate more of them afterwards |
09:02:57 | Slasheri | *possible |
09:03:25 | JdGordon | coolies :) I'll have a play after I get some uni work done :p |
09:03:28 | Slasheri | and the pointer reference table is fixed in size, so menu entries could be even moved |
09:03:34 | Slasheri | nice :) |
09:05:33 | midkay | question.. so tagnavi_custom.config is appended to tagnavi.config if it exists? or does it entirely replace it? |
09:07:21 | | Quit aliask ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007040314]") |
09:07:39 | JdGordon | my understanding is it replaces, unless you dont specify a new root, in which case it adds to it.. |
09:08:13 | * | JdGordon thinks it shuold be read just before the end of tagnavi.config instead of at the begining so less menus need defining in the custom file |
09:08:44 | midkay | oh, i see.. |
09:09:55 | Llorean | GodEater: I once had to have someone redirect the output of a directory listing on their player to a text file to finally get a straight answer as to what files were where. |
09:10:23 | Llorean | I though the custom one was just inserted, if you did it right. |
09:10:39 | Llorean | ^−−- Speaking of Tagnavi |
09:11:30 | GodEater | Llorean: I'll ask him later if he still has problems :) |
09:12:50 | Slasheri | midkay: it's appended |
09:13:08 | Slasheri | midkay: or included just there where the include clause is |
09:13:09 | JdGordon | it replaces if you specify a new rot though doesnt it? |
09:13:21 | Slasheri | yes, then it replaces the default menu structure |
09:13:43 | Slasheri | but everything defined in tagnavi.config (if any) is available also from tagnavi_custom.config |
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09:15:43 | JdGordon | Slasheri: everything? or only the stuff that was efined before the %include line? |
09:15:49 | midkay | Slasheri: so there *is* a way to make it totally replace tagnavi.config if you so desire. |
09:16:03 | * | JdGordon vagualy remembers seeing a patch so even stuff after the %include could be used |
09:16:26 | Slasheri | JdGordon: only the stuff before %include |
09:16:51 | Slasheri | midkay: yes, if you mean replacing the default root menu |
09:16:57 | Slasheri | just use the %root_menu caluse |
09:17:00 | Slasheri | *clause |
09:17:06 | midkay | Slasheri: got it, was just curious. thanks. |
09:17:14 | Slasheri | then the default root menu will be hidden and inaccessible (but it's still there) |
09:17:20 | JdGordon | Slasheri: ok, then shohuoldnt the include be the last line of tagnavi.config? or that patch be commiteD? |
09:17:21 | midkay | ah.. |
09:17:58 | Slasheri | JdGordon: it can't be the last line because the default root menu has the custom menu reference |
09:18:07 | Slasheri | so it needs to be included before that |
09:19:30 | JdGordon | Slasheri: then maybe 7003 could be commited? (goin just by the description though...) |
09:20:33 | JdGordon | hmm.. that actually sounds like it will do what I wanted t do and append to exsisting menus also :) |
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09:21:04 | Slasheri | JdGordon: possible, there are few tagcache/browser patches on the tracker that are almost commitable |
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09:21:37 | Slasheri | can't remember now which ones.. but the code of those needs little fixing, the use of buffers etc. isn't all correct |
09:23:04 | purplegreendave | Can anyone help me please? I have rockbox on my iPod nano, and I can put an mpeg on and it plays fine, but it only displays a quarter of the video (the top left corner). I have tried using media coder to resize it but I cant seem to get it to work/ |
09:23:37 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
09:23:49 | Slasheri | JdGordon: yes, i think #7003 is ok. but the code needs minor adjustments |
09:24:02 | JdGordon | whats the use of havin a title and a in string i the struct root_menu? couldnt just the title be used for the id? |
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09:25:54 | JdGordon | actually... ignore that, I guess you could have multiple menus with the same name but unrelated |
09:26:00 | * | JdGordon bbs |
09:26:05 | Slasheri | indeed |
09:26:23 | Llorean | purplegreendave: You should probably ask somewhere that specialized in mediacoder for help with using it. |
09:26:33 | Slasheri | it could be used but might not be so clean way to implement it |
09:26:56 | purplegreendave | ok thanks & will do, but is there a way to zoom out on the iPod? |
09:27:32 | Llorean | No |
09:27:44 | Llorean | That would take more cpu power for scaling, and we're already tight in that area. |
09:27:48 | Llorean | You should resize your videos in advance. |
09:29:48 | purplegreendave | mmkay thanks |
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09:35:00 | GodEater | is rbutil included in the source archive? Or only available through svn ? |
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09:38:02 | linuxstb_ | Just SVN I think. |
09:38:15 | GodEater | bugger |
09:38:35 | GodEater | with my current lack of home internet I can't do my usual network hoop jumping to make svn work here :( |
09:38:37 | linuxstb_ | I could host a copy if you wanted it. |
09:38:58 | GodEater | cool - I'm going to have another stab at making a statically linked version |
09:40:10 | linuxstb_ | http://www.davechapman.f2s.com/rockbox/rbutil.tgz |
09:40:22 | GodEater | thank you very much |
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09:44:24 | * | linuxstb_ wonders why the distros are so slow to include wx-2.8 |
09:44:57 | B4gder | distros are generally slow at including new packages |
09:45:22 | B4gder | ... and they often have valid reasons |
09:45:52 | | Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
09:47:26 | * | linuxstb_ finds the valid reasons here - http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/message/20070525.181456.d8d237e8.en.html |
09:48:07 | B4gder | haha |
09:48:16 | B4gder | "Let me clarify: NEVER has |
09:48:16 | B4gder | the first "stable" release of some new wx branch gone out the door |
09:48:16 | B4gder | without some critical flaw" |
09:49:48 | linuxstb_ | I see the 2.8 branch is now up to 2.8.4... |
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09:53:17 | GodEater | gentoo has 2.8.2.0 available now |
09:53:48 | crop | Hello. I find the new string "list acceleration speed" a little bit weird. IMHO just "list acceleration" or "list scroll acceleration" would be better. "acceleration speed" is a wrong term IMHO. |
09:53:51 | linuxstb_ | Do they also have older versions available? I think that's what Debian is refusing to do. |
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09:54:45 | crop | amiconn: here? |
09:54:53 | Llorean | crop: Wrong how? |
09:54:54 | GodEater | yes it does |
09:55:21 | GodEater | 2.4.2, 2.6.3.3 are available too |
09:55:41 | crop | "Acceleration speed" is double. "Acceleration" already means speed change per time unit. |
09:56:18 | Llorean | crop: Yes, but acceleration has other attributes than just speed. |
09:56:21 | crop | "Acceleration start delay" is OK |
09:56:21 | linuxstb_ | Acceleration speed means rate of change of acceleration. |
09:56:31 | Llorean | As you mentioned, it has a time element and a speed element. |
09:56:59 | Llorean | Honestly there should be two settings, one that changes the time between increases, and one that changes the increase size (speed) |
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09:57:14 | crop | If acceleration had speed it would change in value. But it doesn't change. So it has a value but not speed. |
09:57:27 | Llorean | What do you mean by "value" |
09:58:02 | crop | Acceleration has a constant value, e.g. 2x/3s. But its *speed* is zero since the acceleration doesn't change |
09:58:22 | Llorean | The rate at which it accelerates changes. |
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09:58:32 | Llorean | In the dP/dT formulat, the ratio of dP to dT is changed. |
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10:00 |
10:00:05 | crop | Llorean: well, we use 'logarithmic' acceleration but still it's constant (set by the option) What does change is the scrolling speed. |
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10:00:33 | Llorean | What changes is "how fast it accelerates" in lay terms. |
10:00:34 | linuxstb | crop: I think I agree. The seeking acceleration setting is just called "FF/RW Accel" |
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10:00:49 | Llorean | "How fast" often translates to the word "speed" |
10:00:55 | Llorean | Perhaps "Acceleration Rate" might make more sense? |
10:01:20 | crop | Llorean: no, the acceleration remains const (if seen in the logarithmic way). The speed changes |
10:01:43 | Llorean | Yes, you're picking that constant. |
10:01:53 | Llorean | You're picking the rate of acceleration. You aren't picking the speed. |
10:02:02 | JdGordon | Slasheri: back to the id/title thing to save ram, would it be better to use a number instead of a string for the id? or not too worried about the ram usage? |
10:02:22 | Llorean | If the acceleration changed it would be "Acceleration acceleration" |
10:02:26 | crop | "Acceleration rate" is better IMHO. It's correct and it does distinguish the option from the "start delay" option |
10:03:10 | crop | Llorean: yes. But since it doesn't change its speed is always zero, so the option doesn't make any sense |
10:03:12 | JdGordon | Slasheri: and lastly, could you put a comment on 7003 saying what would need to be fixed before it could be accepted please? |
10:03:32 | Llorean | crop: That statement makes no sense. |
10:03:40 | Llorean | crop: The acceleration changes when you pick it. |
10:03:52 | Llorean | The acceleration has no acceleration, it's constant. You are picking that constant. |
10:04:02 | Llorean | That constant is the "rate of increase of speed" |
10:04:27 | crop | Llorean: yes, but not "Acceleration speed". |
10:04:29 | Llorean | rate means "a ratio between two different measurements", in this case, the change in amount scrolled per period of time, a rate of distance over time is also known as "speed" in the english language. |
10:04:36 | crop | linuxstb: how can I better explain it? |
10:04:55 | linuxstb | JdGordon: Looking at your patch to tools/configure - does that create the recpresets directory for targets without recording? |
10:05:19 | linuxstb | s/patch/commit/ |
10:05:29 | linuxstb | s/configure/buildzip.pl |
10:05:34 | crop | The best would be just "acceleration" or "scroll acceleration". But the former doesn't explicitly distinguish from the other setting |
10:05:35 | * | linuxstb goes to kitchen for coffee |
10:06:49 | crop | Llorean: so if I've chosen the option e.g. 3x/2s then the logarithmic accel is const and is 3/2 (in some appropriate unit). But it remains const, so its speed is zero. |
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10:07:27 | Llorean | Out of curiosity, 3 units of measurement over 2 seconds = 1.5 units per second |
10:07:30 | Llorean | This is a measurement of? |
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10:08:13 | Llorean | Since our units are distance, the right answer is "speed" |
10:08:14 | JdGordon | linuxstb: yeah, I could change it to check, but is it realy a big deal if the exra folder is there? |
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10:09:03 | Llorean | Nevermind |
10:09:07 | Llorean | Forget I said anything |
10:09:13 | JdGordon | crop: the <num>x/2s is really only because it was the closest to the usage... without adding exra code tha was the closes to making sense.. it shhuoldnt be taken literally.. |
10:09:26 | JdGordon | just that the general idea is tha if that number goes up you go faster |
10:09:27 | crop | Llorean: with "distance" do you mean how far the cursor advances? |
10:09:32 | B4gder | JdGordon: yes, people get annoyed by empty dirs in release packages |
10:09:35 | Llorean | crop: I said forget I said anything. |
10:09:45 | JdGordon | B4gder: ok, ill fix that now then |
10:10:47 | crop | JdGordon: the way it works is OK, I only complain about how it's names |
10:10:50 | crop | *named |
10:11:05 | JdGordon | yeah, I didnt like the name either, but meh, close enough |
10:12:13 | * | Llorean thinks the problem is just a case of the physics definition of speed, which isn't appropriate here, vs the colloquial definition of speed, which is acceptable |
10:14:46 | Slasheri | JdGordon: if you find some alternate way for the id, just please do it :) however, numbers in configuration file instead of strings could be confusing |
10:15:29 | JdGordon | :) if we arnt worried about the mem usage then im happy if you're happy :) |
10:15:34 | Slasheri | JdGordon: the fix should be fairly simple and i have intended of doing it while committing it.. but it just has been delayed, i will try to do it soon |
10:15:42 | Slasheri | :) |
10:16:09 | JdGordon | cool |
10:17:03 | crop | Llorean: maybe. But since I've dealt a bit with the terms the difference is very clear to me :-) |
10:17:53 | Llorean | crop: In my defense, I confused what the 2x referred to in the ratio, you were right that the unit isn't a measure of speed. |
10:18:23 | Llorean | But I still don't think the phrase is inappropriate for how it's used considering it'll make sense to users more this way, I think. Though I think "rate" would be better. |
10:19:54 | crop | Llorean: "rate" in the sense of "value". And the accel unit is logarithmic :-) |
10:21:02 | Llorean | "Rate" in the sense of "how often the speed is changed" |
10:21:36 | Llorean | In the end, it's apparently "double the speed ever X seconds", so it's just a frequency. |
10:21:39 | Llorean | every |
10:21:57 | Llorean | At least, according to that menu |
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10:22:34 | Llorean | Eh |
10:22:38 | Llorean | I'm not explaining clearly now |
10:22:41 | Llorean | It is much too late. |
10:22:48 | crop | Llorean: yes. So the linear acceleration isn't const but the logarithmic one is |
10:22:56 | Llorean | Yeah |
10:23:37 | crop | But if the accleration (the log one) is const then its speed is zero |
10:24:11 | Llorean | See, I see "60 cycles per second" as a speed. Or "1 trigger every two seconds". It's how fast an even occurs. |
10:24:35 | crop | That's why I think just "acceleration" would be the best, without specifying that it's really a logarithmic one. |
10:24:38 | Llorean | Since you can't change both the 2x and the / X seconds aspects, you can only change the speed of events, rather than the whole acceleration |
10:25:04 | amiconn | JdGordon: Did you spot my remarks regarding the sd patch in the log? |
10:25:14 | JdGordon | no |
10:25:22 | crop | Llorean: ah, then you mean acceleration frequency |
10:25:25 | Llorean | Yes |
10:25:27 | JdGordon | i must have mised them, i did read the log though :p |
10:25:36 | JdGordon | amiconn: roughly what time? |
10:25:37 | crop | I meant acceleration as applied to the cursor movement |
10:25:40 | Llorean | But frequency is velocity within an oscillatory path anyway. |
10:26:03 | Llorean | It's still distance over time, it's just a case of distance to reach the zero point again. |
10:26:10 | Llorean | Well... sorta |
10:26:11 | Llorean | Anyway |
10:26:23 | * | JdGordon thinks he will just change the setting to a regular int to shut everyone up |
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10:26:26 | crop | It's frequency, i.e. how many times an event occurs within a time unit |
10:26:34 | JdGordon | "scan accell speed" 1...10 |
10:26:49 | amiconn | JdGordon: 00:48..00:56 cest today |
10:26:55 | * | linuxstb wishes English had two different words for scroll |
10:27:03 | Llorean | crop: Yeah, but in computers it's a speed: How fast you go through a specific series of instructions |
10:27:08 | Llorean | Or repeat a specific series. |
10:27:13 | JdGordon | mmm... chocolate scroll :p |
10:27:22 | Llorean | linuxstb: English could use separate words for a _lot_ of things |
10:27:25 | Llorean | Like "free" |
10:27:34 | * | Llorean doesn't need to hear that speech a million more times. |
10:27:35 | scorche | beer? |
10:28:00 | Llorean | crop: Anyway, I think "Acceleration" is valid, just a bit less clear for the users. |
10:28:03 | B4gder | yes, english needs many more words for beer! ;*P |
10:28:31 | GodEater | english *has* lots of words for beer :) |
10:28:35 | Llorean | scorche: Actually, at this thing I was at, the CEO of Red Hat said "Proprietary software companies give away of lot of demos, the 'free beer' approach as you might say. Open Source tends to take a more sober approach." |
10:28:41 | Llorean | I swear, I was the only person at the even who laughed. |
10:28:45 | JdGordon | amiconn: the sd thread without hotswap is the ata thread... so it does the idle notify code |
10:28:55 | scorche | haha |
10:28:59 | Llorean | event |
10:29:27 | JdGordon | ... /me shold have continued reading... |
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10:30:19 | Llorean | crop: Anyway, sorry for all the arguing |
10:30:29 | linuxstb | How does "scroll" translate into other languages? Can you use different words for scrolling up/down lists and the horizontal scrolling of text? |
10:30:38 | crop | Llorean: you don't have to be sorry, it was a pleasure! |
10:30:56 | linuxstb | crop: You just came here for an argument? ;) |
10:30:58 | crop | linuxstb: cursor movement? |
10:31:04 | GodEater | we could say "panning" for horizontal movement |
10:31:09 | GodEater | I think that's valid |
10:31:12 | * | petur gets a late trigger and blames work for it |
10:31:18 | Llorean | Panning might work. |
10:31:22 | B4gder | linuxstb: in Swedish we prety much use the english word "scroll" in daily speak actually |
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10:31:37 | JdGordon | panning is also 1 less byte! |
10:31:44 | GodEater | woohoo |
10:31:53 | crop | amiconn: if "input source" is the "most important" setting why not put it to the top? |
10:32:00 | linuxstb | panning also means to heavily criticise.. |
10:32:15 | linuxstb | But I guess people won't confuse the meaning :) |
10:32:25 | Llorean | That's a rather uncommon use of the word over hear at least. |
10:32:33 | GodEater | not here it isn't |
10:32:44 | GodEater | but I don't see how you could possibly confuse it as a setting :) |
10:32:47 | linuxstb | Rockbox gave that text a good panning... |
10:33:08 | GodEater | that's a bit of a stretch |
10:33:15 | B4gder | hahaha |
10:33:41 | Llorean | Or as Crop suggested we could just call the list-version the "cursor acceleration" or whatnot, rather than scrolling. |
10:33:59 | GodEater | that's far too many bytes :) |
10:34:01 | Llorean | Since there's a lot of code and discussion referring to "text scrolling" as "scrolling" anyway. |
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10:40:46 | linuxstb | GodEater: Regarding your last forum post - does party mode make the lock icon appear? |
10:41:05 | scorche | ugh @ http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=10753.0 |
10:41:25 | scorche | linuxstb: aye....i didnt think it did either |
10:42:59 | GodEater | linuxstb: I don't know actually - I've never used it |
10:43:09 | GodEater | let me check... |
10:43:38 | scorche | it sounded like his switch was actually broken, or Rockbox froze, if he was moving it and it didnt do anything |
10:43:38 | linuxstb | I think I remember someone else mentioning that problem on a video ipod (lock icon appearing when the hold switch wasn't on) |
10:44:20 | GodEater | No it doesn't |
10:44:25 | GodEater | my bad |
10:44:34 | GodEater | it's not a bad idea though :) |
10:44:44 | linuxstb | We need a party-hat icon... |
10:45:01 | linuxstb | Or a beer icon... |
10:45:07 | GodEater | hahah - yeah |
10:45:22 | * | JdGordon likes the idea of the lock icon showing if in party mode |
10:45:43 | scorche | i dont think petur/preglow would be able to have Rockbox run without party mode then... |
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10:46:11 | GodEater | hahaha |
10:46:26 | GodEater | they don't have some sort of beer based theme already ? |
10:47:20 | GodEater | what happened to the patch to make rockbox read themes straight from a tarball ? |
10:47:53 | linuxstb | Nico_P updated it recently, but it didn't seem to give any noticable speedup. It's in the patch tracker, and could do with more testing. |
10:48:19 | * | amiconn wonders what crop is talking about |
10:48:20 | linuxstb | I'm not sure if it's worth committing if it doesn't speed up theme loading. |
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10:48:42 | GodEater | It might not speed it up |
10:48:52 | GodEater | but it might make *some* of our users lives easier |
10:49:07 | linuxstb | It wasn't the whole theme in a tar, just the WPS bitmaps. |
10:49:12 | GodEater | ah |
10:49:56 | markun | I wonder if Rockbox will be mentioned in this thread: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/29/028259 |
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10:50:01 | GodEater | I was thinking it might be nice if the theme could be loaded all from one file - it might encourage more theme authors to package them up nicely |
10:50:13 | crop | amiconn: hey! What are you wondering about? I meant the recent change in the wavrec menu |
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10:52:42 | B4gder | markun: I doubt it |
10:54:51 | markun | Slasheri: why can't the tagnavi |
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10:55:22 | markun | Slasheri: why can't the tagnavi_custom.config not use UTF-8 but uses ANSI instead? |
10:55:41 | markun | (at least according to http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DataBase) |
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11:04:06 | amiconn | crop: The most important item is 'start recording', but the items are sorted in logical order. First you set parameters, then you start recording |
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11:33:51 | crop | amiconn: ah, right, the item number is zero based! My fault. This will probably change once we have a dedicated record button, right? |
11:36:33 | Slasheri | markun: hmm, that needs to be fixed |
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11:39:02 | markun | Slasheri: I think so too, so people can have a korean tagnavi file for example |
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11:48:58 | Llorean | In regards to a discussion while I was out: even if part of it was in jest, I do think some sort of visual display that party mode is active would be helpful. |
11:51:00 | JdGordon | Slasheri: (soz keep bugging you), just tried out 7003 and it works great. my custom config is tiny compared to before now :) |
11:55:13 | crop | amiconn: why is the entry to start recording in the sttings at all? Shouldn't it be "factored out", i.e. be not in every recording settings? |
11:56:36 | amiconn | wavrecord only has one menu |
11:56:47 | amiconn | This is tech preview stuff anyway |
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11:56:54 | Llorean | Does anyone have any special love for the current Sansa keymap? |
12:00 |
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12:03:45 | Llorean | Question about the button things, what's the difference between a button | BUTTON_REPEAT with a prereq of the same button vs one without a prereq of the same button? |
12:07:11 | markun | Slasheri: it looks like the tagnavi file works fine with UTF-8 |
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12:16:55 | Llorean | Anyone with an e200 want to let me know what they think of this? http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7232 (and if they think I did something wrong with setting the keymappings, I've not tinkered with those before) |
12:19:44 | JdGordon | Llorean: there is a sublte difference which i cant remember right now :p |
12:20:27 | Llorean | JdGordon: I couldn't determine the difference just from reading the buttons and thinking "how do I uses these buttons" |
12:20:46 | Llorean | So I pretty much went with "if there's a |BUTTON_REPEAT or |BUTTON_REL, use a prerequisite of the button being pressed" |
12:21:04 | Llorean | Anyway, I want to remap the keys so that the buttons make a wee bit more sense. |
12:21:11 | JdGordon | repeat isnt always needed, I cant really remember why though |
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12:21:32 | JdGordon | I disagreee with moving stop to power and menu to the down button |
12:21:37 | Llorean | Why? |
12:21:46 | * | JdGordon finds menu much more uefull tha a stop button |
12:22:15 | Llorean | My goal is to bring it more into line with our other targets. |
12:22:18 | JdGordon | also, I like the fact that I dont have t hold the buton to get the contxt menus |
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12:23:03 | Llorean | To me, holding down the select button makes a kind of sense anyway, it's almost like right clicking. |
12:23:30 | Llorean | Meanwhile, on many of our targets the power and stop buttons are the same button. |
12:23:46 | Llorean | The only target I know of that uses a long press of Play/Pause is the iPod because there isn't a button we can use on its own. |
12:24:23 | JdGordon | I really dont see the need for a stop button... pause is good enough, and if you want t clear the playlist, then a long pause is just as simple |
12:25:05 | Llorean | Long pause doesn't make much sense though, people frequently enough ask how to stop playback on iPods already |
12:25:23 | Llorean | Also, why is "I like it better" a good reason to make it more confusing for people moving from other Rockbox targets? |
12:25:36 | JdGordon | looking at the keymap... the |button_rel is only needed if its likly that the button is used in another context but it is still needed in this one.. e.g the power button in context_standard |
12:25:46 | linuxstb | I'm just looking at a picture of an e200 - what's the icon on the "down" button meant to be? |
12:25:54 | JdGordon | a drop menu |
12:26:03 | JdGordon | its used for the context menus in the OF |
12:26:05 | amiconn | Llorean: The difference of a button|BUTTON_REPEAT with and without prereq is very simple: |
12:26:18 | amiconn | With prereq, it triggers only once, i.e. action on long press |
12:26:35 | Llorean | amiconn: Ah, forces only one trigger? |
12:27:14 | Llorean | linuxstb: My patch basically makes that the "Menu" button as it is on most of the other players. |
12:27:19 | amiconn | Without prereq, it triggers continuously times until the button is released. This is used for actions that should repeat (like increasing/decreasing volume, seeking in wps etc |
12:27:29 | amiconn | s/times// |
12:27:36 | Llorean | amiconn: Then for my changes, adding the prereq was appropriate it seems. Thank you. |
12:27:36 | * | JdGordon thought there was a geater argument for using the buttons as they are labbeled, than using them to get consistancy between targets |
12:27:57 | Llorean | JdGordon: The only label I contradict is the small word "Menu" above the power button. |
12:28:09 | Llorean | Errr, below |
12:28:23 | JdGordon | I know :) I really think hat should be used as it is no |
12:28:24 | linuxstb | I think there's an advantage to keeping the "power" button as menu - it means that in plugins where you need four directions, you still have a button free for the menu (or exit). |
12:28:25 | JdGordon | w |
12:28:38 | Llorean | linuxstb: My patch doesn't change the plugins at all |
12:28:47 | linuxstb | (that's a pain on the ipods) |
12:28:54 | Llorean | It just aligns the keymappings in the WPS and tree/menus |
12:29:10 | Llorean | So that long-menu gets you the quick menu, long-select gets you the context menu, and the power button serves as stop |
12:29:44 | * | JdGordon back in an hourish |
12:30:10 | linuxstb | Llorean: Consistency between core and plugins is a nice thing to have... |
12:31:07 | Llorean | linuxstb: I agree, but I think having the quick menu be an different button from the main menu, and the context menu be a different button from select causes a lot of confusion for those who come from other targets. |
12:31:52 | Llorean | To me, these are part of the fundamental controls of Rockbox, and they're mostly the same on other players. |
12:31:55 | linuxstb | Is there a button on the side (top-left) of the sansa? |
12:31:59 | Llorean | Record |
12:34:15 | Llorean | It just seems to me there should attempt to be some fundamental consistencies about how Rockbox works on the players. A sort of input paradigm, where possible, rather than somewhat drastically different controls per target. |
12:36:38 | LinusN | using the power button for menu makes it somewhat risky, since you could hold it for too long to get to the context menu, and turn it off instead |
12:36:52 | Llorean | LinusN: Context menu was a short press of a different button |
12:36:57 | Llorean | It was not mapped to the same button as the main menu |
12:37:07 | LinusN | aha |
12:37:12 | Llorean | Err, quick menu, rather |
12:37:13 | linuxstb | What's record used for? |
12:37:18 | Llorean | Record isn't used at the moment |
12:37:20 | Llorean | Mostly |
12:37:29 | Llorean | It's sorta in the same state as the H1xx |
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12:39:16 | Llorean | To me, if you're going to present users with the same screens, there's a value in having the same button relations. |
12:39:43 | Llorean | Where the number of buttons permits |
12:40:27 | Llorean | The "Menu / Quick menu" pairing and the "Select / Context menu" pairing are, to me, at the core of this. |
12:40:39 | Llorean | Which is kinda a point I argued regarding the Gigabeat too |
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12:47:35 | PaulJam | hi, i noticed, that now when paged scrolling is enabled, at the end of a list, the last item now isn't always aligned with the bottom of the screen. is this intended? |
12:50:12 | PaulJam | and when you then mark the second to last idem and hold DOWN, then the list jumps down so that the last item is at the bottom of the screen. |
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12:55:51 | * | david11 greets everyone |
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13:00 |
13:06:06 | linuxstb | PaulJam: Is that something that changed with the recent list acceleration commit? |
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13:22:44 | PaulJam | linuxstb: i haven't noticed it before, should i try it with an older build before the list acceleration? |
13:23:43 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
13:28:39 | linuxstb | PaulJam: It would be nice to know if it's an old or new problem. |
13:29:23 | PaulJam | linuxstb: with the 2007-05-27 dayly build it does not happen. |
13:29:52 | * | amiconn thinks that the list acceleration is the culprit |
13:29:59 | amiconn | It has more problems than just that |
13:30:28 | linuxstb | I've only used it briefly (in a sim), and got some strange jumping between items. |
13:34:41 | * | JdGordon back |
13:35:05 | JdGordon | the strange jumping isnt selecting the wrong item... just moving the wrong one to the top.. needs some fixing |
13:35:42 | linuxstb | JdGordon: Can you explain briefly how the acceleration works? |
13:36:04 | linuxstb | (neither your flyspray comments or commit message described the details) |
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13:37:26 | JdGordon | after a wait time (where the direction is held down) the number of items skips each buton press increases |
13:37:44 | preglow | good |
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13:40:00 | linuxstb | JdGordon: So the number of items skipped doubles every X seconds (specified in the acceleration setting) ? |
13:41:16 | JdGordon | not really... I jus used that formatting string in the setting list because its close enough and saves writing extra code... |
13:42:01 | linuxstb | So what does happen, and what does the setting mean? |
13:42:24 | JdGordon | every <that val>*HZ/2 the skip value is incremented |
13:42:36 | | Quit elinenbe (" Like VS.net's GUI? Then try HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-") |
13:42:45 | JdGordon | wait a sec.. that doesnt sound right |
13:42:50 | | Quit idnar (Nick collision from services.) |
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13:43:12 | JdGordon | no, yeah, thats right |
13:43:24 | | Part Llorean |
13:44:28 | linuxstb | OK, so the "2x/2s" setting means that the items_to_skip value is incremented once a second? |
13:44:49 | bluebrother | could this also cause FS #7230? |
13:44:59 | PaulJam | there is another fummy behaviour: if paged scrollung is disabled and you scroll down item by item near the end of a list, the view jumps too early to the start of the list (with the cursor still being at the end of the list). |
13:45:30 | JdGordon | bluebrother: yeah, saw that in the thread... it does cause it... |
13:45:46 | JdGordon | that shold be a simpe fix.. just have to find 5 min to d it |
13:46:39 | linuxstb | JdGordon: Did you try any other algorithms? e.g. doubling the skip items at each interval? |
13:47:01 | JdGordon | each which interval? the start delay interval? |
13:47:29 | linuxstb | The interval at which you change the skip value. |
13:48:01 | JdGordon | the code to decide how much we skip is gui/list.c:814-835... |
13:48:16 | Nico_P | linuxstb: that would be enourmous acceleration, wouldn't it ? |
13:48:43 | linuxstb | Nico_P: It depends on the value of the skip interval - it would obviously need to be longer than the current method. |
13:48:49 | JdGordon | like I said, I cheated with the 2nd setting formatter to save bin space... the actual string the uer sees is mostly irrelvant, I could have used numbers instead... |
13:49:03 | JdGordon | it only increments.. never doubles... |
13:49:18 | JdGordon | if it did double it would be way to fast, as Nico_P said |
13:49:18 | Nico_P | linuxstb: I think it would feel jumpy at one point, but probably still worht testing |
13:49:30 | linuxstb | JdGordon: That's what you've just told me - I'm asking if you've experimented with other algorithms, or just went with the first. |
13:49:47 | JdGordon | cant really remember, probably just went with the first |
13:50:17 | JdGordon | The cause of the bugs is in the function which replaced the old select_previous and select_next functions |
13:50:37 | JdGordon | gui_list_select_at_offset() |
13:51:56 | * | Nico_P is off ot class (and going to get $500 from google too :) ) |
13:52:04 | JdGordon | lucky bugger... |
13:52:08 | JdGordon | not to the first part though ;p |
13:54:25 | JdGordon | linuxstb: do you ask bcause the acceleration isnt smooth enough? or not fast enough? or? |
13:55:56 | GodEater | just to add my 2 cents - it doesn't appear to kick in in an untuitive way either |
13:56:01 | linuxstb | JdGordon: My original question was just so that I understood the algorithm you've chosen to use - there are lots of possible ways to implement this acceleration. |
13:56:02 | | Quit crop ("CGI:IRC") |
13:56:05 | GodEater | s/untuitive/intuitive |
13:56:37 | GodEater | looking at the menu options only, it appears we start accelerating after a given amount of time yes ? |
13:56:45 | JdGordon | yes |
13:56:48 | linuxstb | JdGordon: Does it work on the Sansa's wheel ? |
13:56:54 | JdGordon | yeah, works great |
13:57:01 | JdGordon | _if_ you can keep your thumb going :p |
13:57:03 | GodEater | I'd find it more intuitive if it were kicked in when you really go for it with the wheel |
13:57:22 | GodEater | i.e. a great deal of movement in a short space of time |
13:57:36 | GodEater | rather than just, has the wheel been moving for >500ms |
13:57:46 | JdGordon | the button driver speeds up the rate it sends repeat events anyway |
13:59:40 | * | GodEater wonders if that's the best approach |
14:00 |
14:00:07 | linuxstb | JdGordon: I think the setting needs to change to more accurately describe what it does. e.g. give a time in 500ms increments. |
14:00:33 | | Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
14:01:18 | JdGordon | linuxstb: ok, but then what shuold the setting be called? |
14:01:49 | linuxstb | Maybe "list acceleration interval" ? |
14:02:20 | * | linuxstb waits for crop to complain |
14:04:32 | linuxstb | How do the repeat events work for the Sansa's wheel? IIUC, it's a mechanical wheel that you turn, so you can't detect a user touching it? |
14:04:48 | JdGordon | jhMikeS got repeat events working |
14:05:10 | JdGordon | i assume goign by the time difference on the interupts |
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14:05:50 | JdGordon | I tihnk I fixed 7230, but no multiline lists long enough, still other wierd bugs though |
14:06:20 | linuxstb | Yes, looks that way. Something similar should probably be done in the ipod wheel driver, so a user momentarily untouching the wheel doesn't stop repeat events being sent. |
14:07:32 | PaulJam | JdGordon: tried the id3 info screen with a large font? it uses double lines. |
14:08:18 | JdGordon | I forced the tree view to use 2 lines, and now always have the first line selected first, so seems t work |
14:08:54 | JdGordon | page scrolling is funny :) |
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14:17:13 | Llorean | JdGordon: Y'know, I'm still having problems using Icons reliably. |
14:17:32 | Llorean | Is it still "not done" or is it expected to be working at this point? |
14:17:50 | JdGordon | whats wrong wth them? |
14:17:56 | * | JdGordon thought all bugs were fixed |
14:18:02 | Llorean | Without a .icons file, they don't quite work right |
14:18:08 | Llorean | I'm using the white "default" icons |
14:18:20 | Llorean | And the viewers ones for .txt files and .mpeg files are showing up as question marks |
14:18:48 | Llorean | It's a duplicate of the normal icons, only white, and they're in the same order. |
14:19:08 | JdGordon | ok, 1 thing at a time... :) |
14:19:13 | Llorean | It is one thing |
14:19:21 | Llorean | :) |
14:19:24 | JdGordon | lists first :) |
14:19:49 | Llorean | Just wanted to know if it was "known" or if I should remember to bug you about it later. :-P |
14:20:00 | Llorean | I was testing out this "Ultima" theme, Denny's default entry |
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14:21:33 | linuxstb | I assume I'm not the only person getting "Internal Server Error" when trying to use viewvc? e.g. http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/ |
14:21:56 | petur | same here |
14:22:05 | JdGordon | I dont remember anyone else reporting icon bugs... Llorean if you want t put it on FS and assign to me that shuold be enough to remind me ;p |
14:22:15 | JdGordon | 500 error here also |
14:22:21 | * | JdGordon 's commit broke svn :D |
14:22:41 | * | linuxstb pings LinusN, B4gder and Zagor |
14:22:42 | Llorean | JdGordon: This is with an absolutely current build, so it's possible they've resurfaced recently, or it's possible nobody noticed since I think this is the only iconset without a .icons file |
14:22:46 | * | Zagor is looking at it |
14:22:52 | Llorean | JdGordon: I'll post a flyspray entry |
14:23:28 | JdGordon | Zagor: hey, are emails in FS viewable to all users or just the developers group? |
14:23:57 | Zagor | viewable? they are all sent out to the mailing list, so anyone who subscribes can see them |
14:24:27 | JdGordon | were they always? |
14:24:39 | preglow | yes |
14:24:47 | linuxstb | JdGordon: Are you talking about emails or email addresses? |
14:24:47 | JdGordon | hmm, ok then |
14:24:53 | JdGordon | addresses |
14:25:08 | Llorean | JdGordon: Okay, task 7233 |
14:25:13 | Zagor | oh, they shouldn't be visible. are they? |
14:25:37 | JdGordon | I dont know... |
14:25:57 | JdGordon | I was wondering why I got an email from someone who must have got it from FS |
14:26:42 | linuxstb | I know the email addresses used to be visible in flyspray emails, but I think that's been fixed at some point. |
14:27:30 | Zagor | I think the new version fixed that |
14:27:51 | PaulJam | if you are logged in and click on a name in flyspray the emails are visible |
14:27:52 | linuxstb | Yes, checking my archives, the 19 May 2007 was the last email with the addresses listed. |
14:28:13 | linuxstb | One I received on 20 May was just addressed to me. |
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14:29:01 | linuxstb | PaulJam: I think that's new though... |
14:29:23 | PaulJam | is there any way to hide the email adress from others? |
14:30:15 | | Quit pearldiver ("some games are better left unplayed") |
14:31:26 | linuxstb | I'm not sure if we would want to - I don't mind my address being there, and think it's useful to be able to directly contact people who have opened tasks or commented on flyspray. |
14:31:48 | linuxstb | (it's no different to using one of the mailing lists) |
14:32:10 | david11 | where is the difference between single platter and dual platter, exept of the size and weight? |
14:32:16 | Zagor | PaulJam: I'll fix that |
14:32:35 | Llorean | david11: Um, other than the fact that there's two platters, size, and weight, what are you looking for? |
14:32:59 | david11 | maybe it needs more energy |
14:33:16 | david11 | or is faster at reading |
14:33:42 | Llorean | Energy use and read speed varies from drive to drive even among those with the same number of platters. |
14:33:45 | otih | B4gder: ping |
14:33:59 | * | B4gder schpongs |
14:34:02 | GodEater | Zagor, how much work would adding a cookie the the reader.pl be so it can remember things like autoscroll, and show/hide joins ? |
14:34:15 | david11 | how about the price |
14:34:32 | otih | B4gder: linuxstb has checked my server yesterday, and everythink worked! |
14:34:36 | Llorean | Drives with more capacity always cost more. |
14:34:56 | Llorean | Single platter drives with the same capacity as dual platter drives tend to cost more because they tend to use more advanced technology. |
14:35:00 | B4gder | otih: yes, but how does that help us? |
14:35:01 | Zagor | GodEater: not much. I figured you might want to explicitly enable autoscroll, though, since it can be somewhat annoying to turn off again... |
14:35:09 | david11 | ok, thanks# |
14:36:00 | GodEater | Zagor, true - but when I hit refresh currently to renew my timed-out connection, the autoscroll box remains ticked, but doesn't actually do anything until I click it again. At which point autoscrolling is now working, but the setting is indicating it isn't. |
14:36:12 | Zagor | ahh |
14:36:21 | otih | no idea, but failure is not on my servers side ... i´m now reading the scripts, perhaps i could find something ... would you check my server too? or test it again in the build process? |
14:36:23 | GodEater | Zagor: you could always get the text being drawn into a frame and keep the settings at the top ? |
14:36:53 | B4gder | otih: we have like 20 servers and your server showed this error, the others don't |
14:36:56 | Zagor | yeah, but I don't like frames |
14:37:03 | B4gder | and no I have not tracked anything since we talked yday |
14:37:05 | GodEater | Zagor: fair enough |
14:37:19 | otih | B4gder: but why? |
14:37:24 | B4gder | why what? |
14:37:33 | * | Zagor curses python for changing everything every release |
14:37:51 | otih | why there is a failure? linuxstb didn´t find something |
14:37:57 | B4gder | "and no I have not tracked anything since we talked yday" |
14:38:04 | PaulJam | btw, would it be possible in the reader.pl to always open a new window/tab for links? |
14:38:16 | * | preglow curses python |
14:38:47 | * | GodEater thinks perhaps we should open a feature request for reader.pl in flyspray ;) |
14:40:07 | | Part maffe |
14:40:20 | otih | B4gder: perhaps there is a failure in my sshd config, could you parse me yours? perhaps i find something?! |
14:42:47 | | Part david11 |
14:45:28 | Zagor | PaulJam: flyspray email address is now hidden for non-admins |
14:45:57 | PaulJam | Zagor: ok the i can change it back, thank you. |
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14:46:48 | Zagor | hmm, would it be ok if developers can see all email addresses? sometimes you want to mail someone questions. |
14:47:31 | Llorean | I think it's somewhat important that at least developers can get in direct contact with patch posters. |
14:47:33 | linuxstb | I can't see a problem with always showing email addresses - treat flyspray the same as the mailing lists. |
14:47:36 | Llorean | And/or bug posters. |
14:47:57 | Llorean | I don't see a problem with having normal users able to see them either, honestly, as linuxstb says |
14:48:10 | PaulJam | Zagor: now i have a problem. the email entry on the "edit my details"-Page is now removed too. so i can't enter my email adress now. |
14:48:16 | Llorean | People who try to fix bugs aren't always in the Developer group |
14:48:24 | Zagor | PaulJam: haha oops :) |
14:49:43 | Zagor | linuxstb: yeah but flyspray doesn't even try to obfuscate the address. personally I don't care, but I know we're going to get complaints from people. |
14:49:44 | PaulJam | Llorean: i don't like it if everyone can see my emailadress. |
14:50:08 | B4gder | trying to hide email addresses is futile and will fail no matter what we do |
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14:50:24 | linuxstb | Zagor: But the difference is that you need to be registered and logged into flyspray to see the addresses. |
14:50:35 | Zagor | true |
14:50:36 | GodEater | PaulJam: Have you ever investigate TMDA ? |
14:50:44 | Llorean | PaulJam: And I don't like it when someone reports a bug, then never checks their flyspray task, and doesn't have it set to email them when someone posts a comment on it. |
14:50:49 | Zagor | GodEater: don't recommend tmda please. it's broken by design. |
14:51:04 | Llorean | PaulJam: You still have to be registered for Flyspray to see the addresses. |
14:51:10 | GodEater | it wasn't a recommendation, just a suggestion. I don't use it any more myself. |
14:51:25 | GodEater | there are people more paranoid than me out there |
14:51:41 | * | Zagor goes back to bashing on python |
14:52:08 | linuxstb | PaulJam: So you've never used the Rockbox mailing lists for that reason? |
14:52:48 | * | preglow joins in on the python bashing |
14:52:56 | * | B4gder lines up |
14:53:37 | PaulJam | Llorean: but everyone can register at flyspray. and the emil notification on comments is enabled by default. if i knew that my email is visible for everyone i wouldn't have made a flyspray account. |
14:53:41 | Zagor | if anyone knows a svn browser that doesn't use python, please speak up now |
14:53:59 | B4gder | I believe there are |
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14:54:43 | Llorean | PaulJam: If your email has been harvested once, ever, your spam amount will continue to increase with time, ad infinitum anyway. |
14:55:15 | B4gder | and even if not, any friend who get virus infected will spread it |
14:55:21 | B4gder | etc etc |
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14:55:42 | linuxstb | Was there a deliberate decision to make flyspray excempt from the real-name policy? |
14:56:00 | Llorean | PaulJam: Give me good reasons it shouldn't be available, other than you don't want yours available. I'm not sure keeping your account there is a good reason for us to make it hard for those who need more details to contact those who have the details. |
14:56:09 | B4gder | linuxstb: not really, we just never bothered there |
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14:56:21 | petur | linuxstb: it's for users too, not contributers only |
14:56:32 | petur | just like the forum |
14:56:40 | JdGordon | and any friend who is nice enough to add you to their myspace/freindster/etc list... |
14:56:41 | linuxstb | petur: But users turn into contributors... |
14:56:55 | petur | and then we ask their real name |
14:57:03 | B4gder | that we do |
14:57:19 | linuxstb | But then we get awkward cases of patches posted anonymously... |
14:57:40 | petur | maybe we could encourage them to use real names if they plan to contribute |
14:58:00 | Zagor | linuxstb: yes we do, but we ask for real name before accepting them |
14:59:02 | Llorean | The problem lies in the fact that people post a patch, not realizing we'll ask for a real name. |
14:59:22 | LinusN | i don't see it as a big problem |
14:59:29 | Zagor | otoh I certainly have nothing agains adding a little text about our real-name policy on the sign-up page |
14:59:39 | Llorean | Zagor: That's about what I feel should happen. |
14:59:52 | petur | ditto |
15:00 |
15:00:24 | XbooX | anyone know if Rockbox has better battery life on a 5.5G 80GB iPod? |
15:00:26 | * | linuxstb doesn't feel strongly one way or the other |
15:00:30 | Llorean | XbooX: No, it doesn't. |
15:00:43 | | Quit jac0b (Client Quit) |
15:00:46 | Llorean | XbooX: We're quite clear on the fact that on iPods Rockbox has worse battery life than the original firmware |
15:01:35 | XbooX | Llorean: do you have a ratio? |
15:01:48 | Llorean | XbooX: See the IpodRuntime wiki page. |
15:01:57 | XbooX | k |
15:03:21 | XbooX | thanks Llorean, now i know what to use if i cant charge for a while |
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15:07:57 | JdGordon | ok, now the selection bugs have been fixed.. whats the final decision on the acceleratio settings language? |
15:08:04 | | Join The-Compiler [0] (n=florian@156.14.77.83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
15:08:47 | pondlife | Hmm, did anyone note that the SVN diffs aren't working? |
15:09:03 | linuxstb | You mean viewvc ? |
15:09:09 | pondlife | Yes |
15:09:11 | linuxstb | Yes |
15:09:17 | JdGordon | Llorean: ah, your icons problem is by design... without the .icons file there is no way to know that the icons are actually the corect height, and order |
15:09:27 | pondlife | linuxstb: "SubversionException: ("Can't open file '/sites/svn/rockbox/format': Permission denied", 13" |
15:09:37 | Llorean | JdGordon: I thought it assumed they were the correct order, and the same height as the main icons? |
15:10:06 | linuxstb | pondlife: Zagor said he was investigating. |
15:10:11 | JdGordon | ill double check, but I dont think so |
15:10:39 | pondlife | No problem, just thought I'd pop in and mention it as I couldn't see the error in the IRC logs. Bye for now. |
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15:13:29 | Llorean | JdGordon: I thought that the viewer icons were supposed to work _if_ they were in the same order, and the right size. That's at least what you said originally |
15:14:03 | JdGordon | I said that? ok, ill modify the code.. |
15:14:07 | ducbian | Is there a reason why it's a waste of my time to attempt to get a build running on my g2 ipod or is it simply because no current developer has hardware to develop for? |
15:14:08 | | Quit webguest06 (Client Quit) |
15:14:34 | linuxstb | ducbian: You mean the 2nd gen Nano? |
15:14:59 | ducbian | No, I mean a 2002 gen2 touchwheel, kind of old but apparently has the same processor as the g3 |
15:15:10 | linuxstb | Then no, it's not a waste of time at all. |
15:15:11 | Llorean | JdGordon: I _thought_ you did. I could be wrong. |
15:15:23 | JdGordon | Llorean: no, it doesnt make sense.. |
15:15:42 | JdGordon | umm... hmm |
15:15:59 | Llorean | Alright |
15:16:05 | Llorean | Well then, everything's working fine |
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15:16:19 | linuxstb | ducbian: What you will need to do is to look at the source code to ipodlinux (mainly the kernel, but the original podzilla source code could also help), see where different codepaths/functions are used on the g2 compared to g3, and port those changes to Rockbox. |
15:16:27 | GodEater | linuxstb: will ipodpatcher work on a 2nd gen ? |
15:16:41 | JdGordon | Llorean: yeah, it wont play nice if we allow it without the .icons file |
15:17:12 | JdGordon | I tihk, if you create the empty .icons file it will work as expected though |
15:17:15 | linuxstb | GodEater: Not sure. If it does, it will install the 3rd Gen bootloader, which may or may not work on the 2nd gen... |
15:17:35 | GodEater | that'll be interesting =/ |
15:17:41 | BlueChip | Hi. A very quick visit. I threw a guy on the m-list a link for SVN ...it seems svn is dead - or maybe just viewvc? Thought it would be helpful to mention it here |
15:17:48 | GodEater | is there a hardware based disk mode in the early ipods ? |
15:18:04 | GodEater | BlueChip: we're aware of the issue ;) |
15:18:11 | BlueChip | OK dude ;) |
15:18:15 | BlueChip | byeee |
15:18:25 | linuxstb | The firewire chip is documented (I think), so I think a firewire driver could potentially be written. |
15:18:28 | | Part BlueChip |
15:18:35 | linuxstb | ducbian: Did the 2nd gen have USB, or just firewire? |
15:18:41 | ducbian | Just firewire |
15:18:47 | GodEater | documentation, on an iPod component? Whatever next! |
15:18:49 | JdGordon | Llorean: definatly, if you create the .icons file with the only entry bei he highest value in the viewers.config file it will work |
15:19:05 | linuxstb | GodEater: It's external to the portalplayer chip IIRC. |
15:19:25 | Llorean | JdGordon: Highest value? |
15:19:38 | Llorean | JdGordon: As in, the largest number so it knows how many icons there are? |
15:19:45 | linuxstb | ducbian: Have you tried installing the 3rd gen version of Rockbox on your ipod? |
15:20:09 | JdGordon | Llorean: yes |
15:20:13 | Llorean | Alright |
15:20:14 | JdGordon | Llorean: your a lefty? |
15:20:17 | Llorean | Yup |
15:20:26 | Llorean | Actually, ambidextrous, but with a preference to my left. |
15:20:40 | JdGordon | ok, startin to make thing clearer now... |
15:20:42 | Llorean | I'll catch a ball with my right if it's coming from that way, and that's a common test. |
15:21:05 | JdGordon | I ca see how tring to get thepower button with the left hand is a pita |
15:21:18 | ducbian | Not yet, I'm currently at work and our linux guy was bullying me about my moaning rather than using some of our resources to attempt to get rockbox working for my hardware. |
15:22:16 | linuxstb | ducbian: That's probably the first thing to try, and take it from there... The pp5002 ipods are in need of love and attention - no-one is maintaining/developing them currently. |
15:23:44 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
15:24:58 | JdGordon | Llorean: at the expense of a few bytes, I could add an optoin so if there is a line in the .icons file to the effect of "use viewers.config" it would stop reading and assume its all correct, wold tha be ieal? |
15:26:03 | Llorean | JdGordon: What if the .icons file existed but was empty? |
15:26:09 | Llorean | Instead of looking for a line |
15:26:39 | | Join Faemir [0] (n=Faemir@85-211-222-38.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
15:27:13 | JdGordon | that could work also |
15:27:26 | Llorean | I'm not sure though |
15:27:35 | Llorean | I mean, it's fairly easy for authors to just create the file. Heh. |
15:27:48 | | Join pearldiver [0] (n=say@cpe-72-225-231-80.nyc.res.rr.com) |
15:28:02 | Llorean | I don't think we're going to be getting _too_ many more iconsets anyway, interest in it seemed to be somewhat shortlived |
15:28:18 | | Part david11 |
15:28:23 | ducbian | Ok thanks for the information linuxstb, I'll be back outside of business hours as I've probably used up my lunch break poking around the docs and chatting here. My other question was if there is a copy of the docs/contributing.html page because the linked one seems to be awol. |
15:29:17 | | Join Arathis [0] (n=doerk@p5484ba09.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
15:30:18 | | Part Domonoky |
15:30:45 | | Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
15:30:49 | linuxstb | ducbian: That's just a temporay problem with the SVN viewvc script. Apart from coding guidelines (tabs, line lengths etc), the main contributing rules are: 1) Write a patch and submit it to the patch tracker; 2) No anonymous contributions are allowed, so you need to use your real name when contributing patches. |
15:30:56 | * | JdGordon cant remember how the .icons file worked :p |
15:35:27 | ducbian | Fair enough. |
15:39:31 | | Part LinusN |
15:40:08 | | Part Llorean |
15:40:14 | amiconn | linuxstb: Calling emergency diskmode when detecting firewire should be straightforward. |
15:40:23 | * | amiconn still wants to do that for the mini |
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15:54:34 | B4gder | btw, I've been offered a sansa e200 R model |
15:54:42 | | Join EspeonEfi [0] (n=espeonee@c-75-66-59-124.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
15:55:06 | B4gder | and if I get it I'll offer it to anyone who feels like poking it |
15:55:47 | | Quit EspeonEefi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
15:59:03 | linuxstb | Did MrH have some success with it? |
15:59:18 | B4gder | he doesn't have one |
15:59:34 | B4gder | we have not been able to put our own bootloader on it |
16:00 |
16:01:32 | Zagor | viewvc running aain |
16:01:33 | Zagor | again |
16:01:57 | | Quit mpeccorini ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") |
16:02:00 | B4gder | great |
16:02:44 | * | linuxstb is drowning under new devices to work on, so should pass |
16:03:04 | Zagor | gotta go |
16:03:06 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
16:03:15 | preglow | i'm almost tempted |
16:03:22 | preglow | but can't really guarantee poking time, hrm |
16:03:57 | preglow | what's the status on the thing anyway? didn't someone manage to flash it with ordinary e200 firmware? |
16:04:20 | B4gder | nope |
16:04:20 | JdGordon | I thought dan_a managed to put a regular firmware on it? |
16:04:31 | B4gder | we can make a vanilla e200 into an R and back |
16:04:42 | B4gder | but we can't modify an R at all |
16:04:55 | linuxstb | Do the DRM features work on a vanilla e200 turned into an R? |
16:05:07 | B4gder | I don't think anyone tried |
16:05:37 | B4gder | the R models can't upgrade the bootloader from recovery mode |
16:05:47 | B4gder | and they don't have it in a second partition |
16:06:19 | B4gder | and they fixed the dummy signature flaw |
16:06:23 | preglow | where does that leave us? :-) |
16:06:35 | linuxstb | Do we have an unencrypted R bootloader? |
16:06:43 | B4gder | yes |
16:06:46 | JdGordon | and just to be annoying, I think the new OF for the e200 doesnt use a byte for the usb rebuild... |
16:06:58 | B4gder | using e200tool we could rip the bootloader from memory |
16:07:29 | B4gder | and we even have a binary-patched version with supposedly removed signature checks |
16:07:30 | linuxstb | e200tool allows us to upload and run code on the device, commicating via USB? |
16:07:35 | B4gder | yes |
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16:08:02 | linuxstb | So the problem is installing that bootloader? |
16:08:07 | B4gder | exactly |
16:08:56 | linuxstb | Has anyone compared them physically? |
16:09:13 | B4gder | you mean the hardwares? no I don't think so |
16:09:21 | preglow | what size are the e200 rs? |
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16:09:37 | preglow | as in flash capacity |
16:09:45 | B4gder | preglow: they look identical on the outside from the photos I've seen and they have the same flash sizes |
16:10:15 | B4gder | and they have radio |
16:10:57 | preglow | but no, i can't really promise time for hacking |
16:11:07 | preglow | so i'll skip this one |
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16:14:08 | | Join VPN-User [0] (n=Miranda@82.140.49.17) |
16:14:18 | VPN-User | Hello there |
16:15:17 | VPN-User | I still experience charging problems with rockbox an my recorder v1 :( |
16:15:39 | VPN-User | It only charges for about half an our from 5% to 100% |
16:15:50 | VPN-User | hour |
16:16:03 | * | preglow pats hardware controlled charging |
16:16:21 | B4gder | VPN-User: batteries in mint condition? |
16:16:53 | | Join PaulJam_ [0] (i=Paul@vpn-3158.gwdg.de) |
16:17:03 | VPN-User | There are relatively new |
16:17:18 | VPN-User | When I charge them in a dedicated charger, I get 15h playtime |
16:17:32 | VPN-User | But when charged with rockbox, only about one hour :( |
16:17:48 | linuxstb | VPN-User: Which version of Rockbox are you using? |
16:18:01 | VPN-User | its a recent daily build |
16:18:06 | VPN-User | 3 days old |
16:18:20 | * | B4gder haven't used his recorder in ages |
16:18:25 | VPN-User | i also flashed it |
16:18:32 | JdGordon | anyone with a sansa and not the latest OF and 3min spare time? can you connect the sansa to the comp but not mount it, then reboot back into the of? does it rebuild the db? |
16:19:03 | B4gder | no sansa here |
16:19:34 | linuxstb | B4gder: Have you given them all away, or do you just not have one with you? |
16:19:45 | B4gder | I still have one at home |
16:20:52 | | Quit mpeccorini (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Go on, try it!") |
16:21:15 | VPN-User | I really love my v1 :) |
16:21:21 | | Join mpeccorini [0] (n=mpeccori@mail1.theargusgroup.us) |
16:21:27 | VPN-User | But with rockbox - currently unusable |
16:21:43 | VPN-User | Has anyone a flashable stock firmware for me? |
16:21:46 | linuxstb | What if you charge with the original firmware? |
16:21:55 | amiconn | What rockbox version are you using? |
16:22:01 | VPN-User | Because when I ROLO into stock firmware, charging works fine |
16:22:05 | amiconn | If it's 2.5, consider upgrading |
16:22:14 | VPN-User | its a 3 days old nightly |
16:22:22 | VPN-User | tried several |
16:22:23 | amiconn | hmmm |
16:22:47 | amiconn | What batteries are you using? Very high capacity ones? |
16:22:53 | VPN-User | first i thought i have the solder-problem |
16:23:00 | VPN-User | 2400mAh |
16:23:23 | VPN-User | but then it also wouldnt charge with stock firmware, nor? |
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16:23:55 | amiconn | Not necessarily. The stock firmware brute-force charges afaik |
16:24:09 | amiconn | ...at least for a certain amount of time |
16:24:56 | amiconn | It looks like rockbox thinks the batteries are full when they actually aren't, or even stopping completely because of some odd behaaviour |
16:25:38 | amiconn | If it would just detect full, it should at least peform the 2 hour top-off charging... |
16:28:08 | Faemir | does anyone know what battery mAh a ipod video 5.5g is? or how to find out? |
16:33:22 | | Quit PaulJam (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
16:34:09 | linuxstb | Faemir: Have you read the section in the manual about that setting? |
16:36:20 | | Join haemmy [0] (i=stefan@194.208.162.140) |
16:37:11 | Faemir | no |
16:38:27 | VPN-User | The voltage increases very fast with these batteries while charging |
16:38:32 | JdGordon | hmm... viewcvs is still fubar |
16:38:32 | VPN-User | maybe thats the problem? |
16:38:51 | | Join printfXh4 [0] (n=pseudo@ppp217-33.lns2.bne1.internode.on.net) |
16:39:46 | VPN-User | These are batteries specially for MP3 players |
16:40:02 | VPN-User | or electronic devices that need a constant high voltage |
16:40:08 | B4gder | JdGordon: where how? |
16:40:50 | JdGordon | viewing a diff |
16:40:58 | JdGordon | http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/apps/gui/list.c?r1=13513&r2=13514 |
16:41:03 | B4gder | indeed |
16:41:20 | B4gder | Permission denied: '/dev/null' |
16:41:21 | B4gder | ;-) |
16:41:49 | | Quit printfXh4 (Remote closed the connection) |
16:42:03 | Faemir | ah. |
16:42:07 | Faemir | linuxstb, i see. |
16:44:53 | | Quit VPN-User ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
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17:00 |
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17:03:38 | | Quit B4gder ("It is time to say MOOO") |
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17:16:34 | crop | linuxstb: ping |
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17:20:46 | linuxstb | crop: hi |
17:23:46 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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17:27:02 | | Join david11 [0] (n=david52@84.72.254.113) |
17:28:16 | crop | linuxstb: I wanna complain :-) About "interval." |
17:29:28 | linuxstb | Do you have a better name, given jdgordon's description of how it works? |
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17:32:51 | haemmy | i have a question concerning album art: which are the requirements to see album art (i know that i need an build with albumart patch(i got senabs one), and a theme supporting it(black glass aa) |
17:33:12 | linuxstb | haemmy: Have you seen this page? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/AlbumArt |
17:33:18 | haemmy | i have tagged mp3s |
17:33:39 | haemmy | i'll have a look at it ;) |
17:34:49 | mpeccorini | linuxstb: is there a way to list all the documents in the wiki? |
17:35:15 | mpeccorini | linuxstb: I'm planning to write a comprehensive guide to use the list widget, but I wonder if one already exists :p |
17:35:58 | linuxstb | I doubt there is such a document. You can search the wiki, or view the very long index (see that links at the top of every wiki page) |
17:36:19 | | Quit shnee (Connection timed out) |
17:36:45 | mpeccorini | Ahhh, that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks |
17:39:25 | mpeccorini | Ok, there's no guide about how to use the list widget. It's confirmed. Do you guys think it's worth writting it? |
17:40:01 | mpeccorini | I would have used one yesterday, it would have taken me 1 hour to do what I did in 3 LOL |
17:40:33 | haemmy | @ linuxstb: the link helped me thx |
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17:42:06 | | Quit Febs ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]") |
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17:44:13 | | Quit petur ("later") |
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17:46:13 | haemmy | another nooby question on ipod rockbox: is there a plan to use artwork providet by the itunes artwork db? |
17:46:31 | haemmy | *provided |
17:46:35 | preglow | album art is going to be supported soon |
17:46:53 | preglow | rockbox is not going to care how you get that artwork |
17:47:10 | GodEater | it won't be loaded from the itunesdb directly however |
17:47:14 | preglow | not all formats will be supported, though |
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17:47:36 | haemmy | i thougt that to... |
17:47:37 | linuxstb | preglow: IIUC itunes creates a database on the ipod which stores (as uncompressed bitmaps I think) the album art used by the Apple firmware. |
17:47:38 | haemmy | too |
17:47:39 | crop | linuxstb: ehmm... sorry, was a bit off. Where is the description of how it works? |
17:47:55 | preglow | linuxstb: not the worst arrangement ever |
17:47:59 | linuxstb | crop: The IRC logs just before I invited you to complain :) |
17:48:08 | preglow | linuxstb: it's probably going to be keyed by something we can't use, though |
17:48:52 | linuxstb | preglow: Possibly. But the principle is very close to Rockbox's proposed album art support - just that Apple use a database instead of the filesystem. |
17:50:32 | linuxstb | haemmy: I think it's unlikely that Rockbox will read album art directly from the itunes db - but it would be nice if someone wrote a program (or maybe even a plugin) to extract it to files Rockbox could use. |
17:50:59 | haemmy | would be very nice *g* |
17:51:45 | crop | linuxstb: just read the explanation. It doesn't tell much since it's not specified _how_ the items_to_skip is incremented. |
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17:52:44 | preglow | linuxstb: since retailos uses itunesdb, i kind of doubt how much use we can find in the artwork db. we'll be unable to figure out what bitmap goes with what files anyway |
17:52:46 | crop | Sorry, I must leave. Will read the log. And hope to continue the talk tomorrow :-) Bye |
17:52:49 | | Quit crop ("CGI:IRC 0.5.7 (2005/06/19)") |
17:53:12 | preglow | linuxstb: that is, of course, unless people just use the database |
17:53:18 | preglow | i never do that, so kind of forgot about it, heh |
17:53:27 | haemmy | if rockbox could use the itunes album art db, then it would not be far away to completely integrate itunes |
17:53:51 | haemmy | the itunes data on ipod |
17:53:57 | GodEater | I'm not sure we'd be too keen to do that - not a lot of point |
17:54:10 | GodEater | it's only one of our targets that uses iTunes |
17:54:19 | preglow | well, if the integration is by the way of using the database and external tools: sure |
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17:56:16 | haemmy | so i'll transfer my songs + artwork to iPod with Anapod and then listen to them with Rockbox +g+ |
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17:56:52 | haemmy | it's not a pity for me dont having album art everywhere |
17:57:17 | haemmy | if i want album art, i can start with original firmware +g+ |
17:57:45 | haemmy | another question: what about the battery? |
17:57:51 | nls | hmm is it known that the diff links on th efrontpage don't work? |
17:58:23 | linuxstb | nls: Yes. At least, B4gder knows. |
17:58:40 | haemmy | how long can i listen non stop with an ipod video 30gb? would be interesting |
17:59:11 | nls | linuxstb: ah, good, I guess he'll fix it when he has time to do so |
17:59:31 | haemmy | is there a significant loss of playing time? |
18:00 |
18:00:10 | linuxstb | haemmy: Yes, Rockbox has bad power consumption on ipods. Around 7 hours I think is usual for the 30GB video according to this page - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IpodRuntime |
18:01:42 | haemmy | ah.. turing down the display light will help a bit i think? |
18:01:45 | helixxo | just loaded rockbox onto my gigabeat, when i browse the files my directories are still there, but when i open them i just get a blank screen, no songs to select. is there a troubleshooting page that could help me here? |
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18:02:33 | helixxo | oh i see rockbox cant read sat |
18:02:35 | helixxo | sorry |
18:02:36 | | Nick PaulJam__ is now known as PaulJam (i=Paul@vpn-3113.gwdg.de) |
18:05:59 | preglow | haemmy: possibly, but the biggest cause of power drain is unknown as of yet |
18:06:33 | | Part david11 |
18:07:51 | haemmy | unknown? -.- sounds mysterious |
18:09:23 | | Quit shnee (Connection timed out) |
18:09:27 | intgr | Has Apple contributed any code recently? :) |
18:10:04 | desowin | s/recently/ever/ |
18:11:15 | haemmy | intgr : is apple supporting rockbox project? |
18:11:25 | nls | nope |
18:11:32 | intgr | Of course not, I was joking. |
18:11:54 | haemmy | ^ |
18:11:57 | haemmy | ^^ |
18:16:32 | desowin | AustraiMicrosystems is only one supporter (from player makers) |
18:17:00 | desowin | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/AustriaMicrosystems |
18:20:37 | linuxstb | I wouldn't really call them a supporter - companies that freely publish datasheets for their chips have contributed a lot more to Rockbox. |
18:21:12 | | Quit PaulJam_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
18:21:14 | preglow | well, they are supporters in the sense that we've had an active dialogue with them |
18:21:25 | preglow | even though we'd prefer it if the datasheets were freely available or not |
18:23:04 | haemmy | austria :) |
18:23:14 | linuxstb | I agree, it's nice they made us send people to go and collect datasheets from their offices... ;) |
18:23:33 | ducbian | Why do they keep them a secret, are they scared of Chinese knockoffs that are protocol / pin compatible or is it just reflex? |
18:23:34 | haemmy | i'm from austria too ;) |
18:23:43 | nls | desowin: SanDisk gave the project 2 or 3 sansas actually, we didn't get any docs on them though... |
18:24:16 | preglow | ducbian: i think they're afraid users would fry their players writing illegal combinations of values to their chips |
18:24:18 | desowin | you got developer boards didn't you ? |
18:24:25 | preglow | ducbian: but that's rather silly, since that risk is even greater when you have no info |
18:24:36 | linuxstb | ducbian: The cynic in me thinks that companies with strict NDAs regarding their documentation have something to hide. |
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18:25:05 | preglow | i just think they have retarded management |
18:25:14 | nls | desowin: I think bagder got one with a jtag connector soldered on |
18:25:34 | ducbian | linuxstb, I suspect it's actually more than many of these companies adopt a default position similar to everyone elses because it is easier than exploring the ramifications of making such documents publicly available. |
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18:28:48 | * | amiconn tends to agree with linuxstb (cynic part) |
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18:29:23 | JerryLange | hello. is there anybody in here? i have a very important problem |
18:29:35 | desowin | ask |
18:29:51 | JerryLange | my ipod wont turn on at all |
18:30:28 | markun | is the battery charged? |
18:30:52 | JerryLange | it was last night when i turned it off. |
18:30:57 | PaulJam | have you already tried to reset it? |
18:31:26 | JerryLange | with menu+select? |
18:31:49 | PaulJam | yes |
18:32:13 | JerryLange | ok that worked. |
18:32:28 | | Quit lee-qid (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
18:32:42 | AtG | somebody know if Duke Nukem 3D will work on Rockbox - H320 ? |
18:32:57 | JerryLange | why did it work like that? |
18:33:03 | PaulJam | if someone ports it, them maybe |
18:34:13 | PaulJam | JerryLange: i could imagine that the wasn't rally off, but that it hung with backlight being off. |
18:34:14 | JerryLange | may i ask my my ipod would only turn on that way the first time today? |
18:34:27 | JerryLange | ok. |
18:34:56 | preglow | the safest and cheapest way is to require ndas, so i understand them well |
18:36:52 | helixxo | sweet i got it working :D |
18:37:03 | helixxo | thanks for the neast program, guys |
18:38:08 | markun | AtG: if it already works? |
18:38:12 | | Quit shnee (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
18:38:14 | markun | or if it's possible to port it? |
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18:48:54 | * | nls wonders if he made the top 10 highscore? |
18:51:44 | mpeccorini | n1s: hi buddy, thanks a lot for suggesting the List Widget. I did look a lot better. Did you test it? |
18:52:02 | nls | mpeccorini: yep, looked good so I comitted it :-) |
18:52:46 | mpeccorini | n1s: gr8, I've got plenty other features to add ;-) |
18:53:13 | nls | more chessfeatures? |
18:54:58 | | Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
18:56:38 | mpeccorini | n1s: yes, storing games you play against GnuChess, switching between viewer and game modes, a configuration screen with several options like autosave ... |
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18:57:38 | nls | mpeccorini: ah ok, sounds nice I guess you play a lot of chess on the go :-) |
18:58:16 | mpeccorini | n1s: yep, I'm a lousy player, I hope my iPod can help me LOL |
18:58:45 | mpeccorini | these are not my ideas though, they're documented here http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/PluginChessbox |
19:00 |
19:00:04 | nls | Yeah I remember the guy that made the initial port of chessbox, he had a lot of ideas, but he vanished |
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19:02:52 | mpeccorini | n1s: with some time, they'll get done by someone |
19:03:29 | mpeccorini | n1s: he does have some very bold ideas though |
19:05:17 | nls | yeah, people who are not regulars tend to do a couple of drive-by patches for the plugins so maybe one day they'll all get implemented :-) |
19:08:21 | | Quit pepie34 ("Ex-Chat") |
19:10:18 | n17ikh|Lappy | I have a question for people with the iriver H10 20gb. I have problems playing wavpack and high-bitrate (320kbit) mp3s |
19:10:33 | n17ikh|Lappy | seems like every once in a while the thing just gets overwhelmed and pauses for a few seconds and resumes |
19:11:00 | n17ikh|Lappy | only happens in the WPS regularly, not in the file browser, although it does happen in the file browser occasionally |
19:11:08 | n17ikh|Lappy | not that I have a very complicated WPS |
19:11:19 | nls | n17ikh|Lappy: are you using eq, crossfeed or dithering? |
19:11:47 | n17ikh|Lappy | not sure about EQ, but no crossfeed or dithering |
19:11:59 | n17ikh|Lappy | let me check |
19:12:50 | n17ikh|Lappy | nope |
19:13:00 | n17ikh|Lappy | not using the EQ, but I am using the coarse bass/treble adjustment |
19:13:45 | n17ikh|Lappy | but then again, mine isn't the very latest build, it's a week or two old |
19:14:08 | nls | n17ikh|Lappy: I don't think the bass/treble controls should affect it, the problem is that eq and the other dsp options use a fair bit of cpu power |
19:14:20 | n17ikh|Lappy | yeah, I realize that |
19:14:24 | n17ikh|Lappy | but I'm not using any :/ |
19:14:44 | nls | and as the codec also wants a fair bit of cpu power, especially with higher bitrates there is not enough |
19:14:48 | amiconn | Does the H10 have hardware tone control? |
19:14:50 | n17ikh|Lappy | I thought the portalplayer CPUs were more powerful than that though |
19:14:57 | n17ikh|Lappy | no clue, amiconn |
19:16:02 | nls | hmm, seems they are software tone controls |
19:16:16 | n17ikh|Lappy | so turning those to zero would probably help |
19:16:19 | nls | try torning bass/treble off (set them to 0) |
19:16:26 | n17ikh|Lappy | yeah, I'll give it a shot |
19:16:32 | amiconn | n17ikh|Lappy: Do you have peakmeters on your wps? |
19:16:37 | n17ikh|Lappy | nope |
19:16:39 | n17ikh|Lappy | it's the uh |
19:16:39 | nls | n17ikh|Lappy: yeah it should help a little bit at least |
19:16:40 | n17ikh|Lappy | one sec |
19:18:14 | n17ikh|Lappy | "boxes" WPS that comes with rockbox |
19:19:10 | n17ikh|Lappy | no peak meters, it does have some graphical stuff that I could get rid of if I wasn't too lazy to look for/write a good wps |
19:19:39 | nls | n17ikh|Lappy: the graphics shouldn't make a big difference |
19:20:12 | n17ikh|Lappy | how much of the screen does it redraw every refresh? |
19:20:22 | n17ikh|Lappy | (I don't know how rockbox does screen updates) |
19:20:27 | amiconn | It's dynamic |
19:20:37 | n17ikh|Lappy | so just what's changed then |
19:20:43 | amiconn | It only refreshes what's changes, approx. twice per second |
19:20:54 | amiconn | Only peakmeters are drawn more often |
19:21:29 | n17ikh|Lappy | ah |
19:21:48 | n17ikh|Lappy | well, I guess it's just a limitation of the portalplayer CPU :/ |
19:22:04 | n17ikh|Lappy | wonder if it's possible to get it to clock up when plugged in |
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19:22:21 | n17ikh|Lappy | perversely, I don't have the problem when on battery because I have the screen set up to time out |
19:22:28 | nls | n17ikh|Lappy: also rockbox does not make full use of the second core in the processor yet |
19:22:32 | n17ikh|Lappy | ah |
19:22:39 | n17ikh|Lappy | so, eventually it might do better |
19:22:41 | amiconn | The problem is that we can't use the pp like we'd want to atm |
19:23:20 | n17ikh|Lappy | I see. |
19:23:50 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
19:24:23 | n17ikh|Lappy | that's part of the summer of code project, right? |
19:25:48 | a1titude | I was actually going to ask a question about battery life, I was wondering how long do you immagin that it will take for you (the rockbox developers) to find the drainage problem and solve the short batterylife for the portalplayer chip based targets? - I'm reluctent to use rockbox for audio playback until it gives bettter battery life. :( |
19:26:23 | nls | a1titude: we don't make ETAs |
19:26:32 | nls | make/set |
19:26:46 | nls | because we don't know |
19:27:15 | a1titude | ahh, well thanks |
19:28:40 | nls | a1titude: although one problem that is known is that nobody knows how to power down the harddrives in the ipods (does not affect h10 where that works or flash based players) |
19:29:50 | a1titude | apple should make it easyer for rockbox developers when making the hardware! haha jk lol |
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19:35:05 | | Part a1titude |
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19:47:57 | mpeccorini | guys, is Kevin Ferrare still contributing to Rockbox? |
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19:49:44 | desowin | mpeccorini: why not ask him directly ? |
19:49:58 | * | amiconn hasn't seen him for ages |
19:50:26 | nls | his last commit was on Jul 2nd 2006 |
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19:50:49 | haemmy | hm is there a build, where ipod could shut down the display during playing audio until a button is pressed? |
19:51:07 | mpeccorini | I just wrote http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/ListWidget and I was hoping he could take a loot at it |
19:51:25 | mpeccorini | but I should probably just go get a life :p |
19:51:54 | desowin | haemmy: atleast on mini it didn't gave me any change, if you have grayscale iPod I could check if my old patch still applies |
19:52:10 | desowin | (change in battery life) |
19:52:35 | amiconn | Switching off the lcd doesn't make sense wrt battery life |
19:52:47 | amiconn | What sucks power is the backlight, not the lcd itself |
19:53:22 | amiconn | And if the lcd stays readable w/o backlight, it doesn't make sense to switch it off. That applies to all ipods except the color/photo |
19:53:25 | haemmy | desowin : no i got a ipod video 30gb |
19:54:29 | desowin | haemmy: sorry, I can't help then |
19:56:10 | * | desowin was one who thought he know it better, but it just paid me many hours on trying to make patch and then notice that there's no difference, but it's good, I no longer argue with you guys |
19:57:21 | haemmy | sry, didn't know that |
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20:00 |
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20:04:12 | zobo | does anyone know if rockbox implements some sort of buzzer? |
20:05:02 | scorche | there is a ptch on the tracker for the piezo, if that is what you mean |
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20:09:56 | zobo | scorche, the piezo patches deal with button presses, correct? |
20:10:48 | desowin | those are old from what I know, probablt won't apply to svn now, someone would have to sync them |
20:10:59 | | Quit PaulJam (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
20:11:14 | desowin | (and correct) |
20:12:15 | rift | hum |
20:12:35 | rift | for doom, i put the .wad on .rockbox/games/doom or in .rockbox/doom ? |
20:13:00 | linuxstb | Whatever the manual says... |
20:13:48 | zobo | but say I want to generate beeps at specific time intervals as opposed to buttons being pressed. |
20:14:31 | linuxstb | Are you talking about beeps in your headphones, or the ipod's piezo? |
20:14:53 | | Quit barrywardell_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
20:15:24 | zobo | linuxstb, I just need an audiable beep to be created at certain time intervals. |
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20:17:12 | zobo | For example, I often do High-intensity Cardio w/ my Sansa. I run for a minute, then walk for a minute, then run for a minute again... etc. |
20:17:27 | linuxstb | So you want it whilst listening to music? |
20:17:48 | zobo | It would be much more prctical to hear when the interval has elapsed than having to glance at my stopwatch every couple of seconds |
20:18:00 | zobo | linuxstb, ideally, yes. |
20:18:22 | zobo | fade music, hear beep. |
20:18:36 | zobo | is there a plugin for something like this already? |
20:19:03 | | Quit sando ("Apply directly to the forehead") |
20:19:26 | linuxstb | I don't think such a plugin exists already, but there's the pcmbuf_beep() function available to plugins, so a plugin could be written to use that. (although I'm not sure how well that function works) |
20:20:00 | zobo | thanks |
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20:27:46 | Nico_P | looks like I' not getting any Flysspray notifications anymore... |
20:28:42 | | Quit atsea- (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
20:29:51 | linuxstb | Nico_P: You mean personal emails or the mailing list? |
20:30:01 | Nico_P | oh actually it's ok I got one today :) |
20:30:02 | | Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear) |
20:30:20 | Nico_P | it seems the notifications were disabled with the new version of FS |
20:30:37 | Nico_P | linuxstb: I was talking about personal emails for watched tasks |
20:31:22 | Nico_P | linuxstb: btw, what do you want to do with your checkwps tool ? |
20:32:04 | linuxstb | I'm happy to commit it, but want someone (you?) who knows the WPS code to help improve it - it's just a proof-of-concept really at the moment, rather than a useful tool. |
20:32:53 | Nico_P | linuxstb: what kinf of improvements do you have in mind ? |
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20:32:53 | linuxstb | Mainly two things: 1) Check that the changes to core rockbox code are OK, and that they can't be done any less intrusively; 2) Change the application itself to provide more useful output. |
20:33:18 | Nico_P | what sort of output ? |
20:33:46 | linuxstb | You think it's fine as it is? I don't write WPSs, so don't know what WPS authors will want to be told. |
20:34:38 | * | linuxstb can't remember exactly what the output looks like, apart from the fact that it seemed very verbose |
20:35:01 | Nico_P | it is very verbose... maybe that can be changed with command line arguments |
20:35:32 | Nico_P | WPS creators seemed to be quite happy with the output |
20:36:03 | linuxstb | Fair enough then. |
20:36:27 | Nico_P | I'll check the core parts |
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20:37:38 | webguest01 | hi can anybody give me a link to the current build for my ipod video plz? |
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20:39:13 | aa234238 | Good evening all, I was hoping someone could advise me - in its current state, is Rockbox on a 5G video iPod capable of decoding and mixing two streams of audio for >30 secs? |
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20:40:08 | linuxstb | webguest01: Click on "Current Build" in the menu on the left of the Rockbox website, and scroll down until you see a photo of your iPod. Then click on it. |
20:40:57 | webguest01 | thank u |
20:41:33 | | Quit webguest01 (Client Quit) |
20:41:41 | linuxstb | aa234238: There's no feature to do that currently. Are you asking if the ipod hardware would be up to it if it was implemented? |
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20:42:58 | aa234238 | yeah basically.. well my idea (/dream, it would take a long time for me to get anywhere near implementing but i love a good challenge..) is to have precalculated info on bpm/beat timings of songs and for the ipod to resample the next song to match the tempo and x-fade the two |
20:43:00 | aa234238 | dj style |
20:43:04 | aa234238 | just for fun really ;) |
20:43:47 | aa234238 | see, x-fade obviously exists, but i'm unsure if it actually decodes two streams at once or whether it uses the last few seconds when the other track has been decoded to start decoding the next one |
20:43:58 | aa234238 | i did have a look at the sources a while ago but it was a bit confusing, thought i'd see if anyone knew the answer |
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20:44:20 | aa234238 | my guess is that mp3 decoding would have to be happening at well over 200% realtime for this to even be feasible |
20:44:25 | linuxstb | Yes, crossfade starts to decode the second track after it's finished decoding the first. Only one codec is running at a time. |
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20:44:49 | linuxstb | aa234238: This page shows some decoding speeds (on the iriver H10, but it has the same CPU as the ipod video) - http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/CodecTesting |
20:45:25 | aa234238 | ah excellent, thanks for that |
20:46:19 | linuxstb | Note that the MP3 figures are for a version of the decoder with some as yet uncommitted optimisations. Current SVN is slower. |
20:46:20 | | Quit zobo (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) |
20:46:40 | * | linuxstb just notices the page has two sets of MP3 figures.... |
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20:46:55 | aa234238 | 180%.. hmm, that would allow ~3 mins to decode the next song on a six min song... but then there's the memory overheads to consider |
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20:47:21 | aa234238 | and woudl i be right in thinking that resampling works by changing something in the hardware, i.e. its a global thing rather than a "per-stream" thing? |
20:47:41 | linuxstb | No, the DAC is fixed at 44.1KHz - all resampling is in software. |
20:48:02 | aa234238 | ahh, interesting |
20:48:21 | aa234238 | so what i'm suggesting might not be impossible, as long as memory isnt the limiting factor |
20:48:30 | aa234238 | i might look in to it a bit more |
20:48:39 | aa234238 | as i say, it'll be a fun challenge if nothing else ;) |
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20:49:03 | aa234238 | - is the overhead of resampling in s/w high do you know btw? |
20:49:14 | linuxstb | I'm not sure why you need to decode the whole song in advance though - you can resample the second song as it's playing. |
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20:49:49 | Nico_P | linuxstb: I don't see a problem with the core parts of the patch... But I get weird warnings about printf when I build the tool |
20:49:49 | aa234238 | yea, you're absolutely right. i was more thinking in terms of i'd like there to be a ~45sec period of time where both songs are playing |
20:49:54 | aa234238 | which looks like it might not be impossible |
20:50:19 | linuxstb | You could just increase the current crossfade buffer. |
20:50:41 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Yes, I get those too. |
20:50:59 | aa234238 | indeed, then write software on the pc side to analyse the tracks, and routines on the ipod/rockbox side to use this info to synchronise the tracks (assuming they are perfectly in sync) |
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20:51:08 | aa234238 | i think it'd be a quite cool feature, i'll look in to it more |
20:51:10 | aa234238 | thanks for you advice mate |
20:51:16 | Nico_P | linuxstb: no idea how to fix them, or even where they come from ? |
20:51:18 | linuxstb | Nico_P: I think it's a problem with the system printf getting in the way of the Rockbox printf. |
20:51:18 | aa234238 | if i carry on with it i guess you'll see more of me here ;) |
20:51:31 | Nico_P | shouldn't we be using the system printf ? |
20:52:02 | linuxstb | Nico_P: Yes, we should - and I think we are... I probably meant to say the Rockbox printf is getting in the way of the system one. |
20:52:11 | Nico_P | ok :) |
20:52:20 | | Quit zobo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
20:52:27 | aa234238 | linuxstb: by the way, ignoring obvious preferences like UI etc, will i have a harder time getting a build environment going under linux or under windows? |
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20:52:54 | Nico_P | aa234238: the build env is meant for linux |
20:52:58 | aa234238 | ahh |
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20:53:35 | linuxstb | aa234238: Linux is easier (and compiles faster). On Windows, your options are cygwin or Linux running in vmware. |
20:54:13 | aa234238 | yeah, i was thinking i could use colinux under windows (not checked if that project is still alive tho..) - however been looking for an excuse to use XGL more so linux it is :) |
20:54:24 | linuxstb | Ah yes, colinux works as well. |
20:54:51 | linuxstb | I think you'll find info on using colinux for compiling Rockbox on the Rockbox website. |
20:55:07 | aa234238 | cool, i'll have a good read of the wiki and look through the sources |
20:55:09 | aa234238 | thanks for the help |
20:55:31 | linuxstb | you're welcome. |
20:55:54 | linuxstb | Nico_P: I'll commit checkwps-v3.diff then? |
20:56:10 | | Quit zobo (Client Quit) |
20:56:43 | Nico_P | linuxstb: I'm fine with it. maybe someone will come up with a solution for the warnings |
20:56:53 | | Quit aa234238 () |
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20:57:14 | Nico_P | and the functions you moved feel more at home in wps_parser.c |
20:57:38 | linuxstb | Good. |
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21:00 |
21:00:53 | linuxstb | Nico_P: OK, committed... |
21:01:01 | Nico_P | cool :) |
21:01:49 | preglow | is gigbeat s still sold? |
21:02:27 | david11 | http://www.thebulletin.org/minutes-to-midnight/ |
21:02:38 | david11 | oh sorry |
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21:04:51 | linuxstb | preglow: google seems to be telling me no. |
21:05:00 | preglow | damn, shelflife is getting short |
21:05:08 | Nico_P | preglow: there are some on ebay |
21:05:19 | Nico_P | I think the S is still sold in some places |
21:05:30 | preglow | hmm, anyone know if the gigabeat s code injection tool works with zune? :/ |
21:05:49 | Nico_P | preglow: it doesn't |
21:05:51 | linuxstb | It doesn't. I think the exploit on the S doesn't exist on the Zune. |
21:05:59 | Nico_P | I was going to add that :) |
21:06:09 | preglow | would be seriously cool with an fpu target for rockbox... |
21:06:09 | nls | is someone tempted by the 500MHz arm + vector fpu? ;-) |
21:06:29 | Nico_P | preglow: get startedon the port then :) |
21:06:37 | Lear | That's what the Zune has? |
21:06:41 | preglow | Lear: aye |
21:06:52 | preglow | Nico_P: i'd need a unit first |
21:06:53 | preglow | also time |
21:07:04 | preglow | hrmr |
21:07:04 | linuxstb | Lear: And the Gigabeat S. |
21:07:23 | | Part The-Compiler ("Connection reseted by god") |
21:07:36 | * | linuxstb is starting to see his Gigabeat F as slow... |
21:07:40 | Nico_P | preglow: toffe82 might be able to get you one |
21:08:41 | toffe82 | :) |
21:09:13 | | Join Tachikoma [0] (n=Tachikom@fl-71-53-133-205.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
21:09:28 | toffe82 | why a zune ? the only difference with the S is the wifi if I remember |
21:09:45 | linuxstb | It's a currently available device? |
21:09:46 | Tachikoma | does the 4th gen ipod have a colour screen? |
21:10:03 | nls | linuxstb: not on this side of the pond |
21:10:23 | nls | Tachikoma: some do, they are called ipod photo/color |
21:10:26 | linuxstb | Tachikoma: The one with the colour screen does... There are two 4th gen - one is an greyscale LCD (normally just called "4th gen") and one with a colour LCD - called the Photo or Color. |
21:10:28 | Lear | He, found a page claiming that the Broadcom chip is a 300 MHz ARM11 and a 150 MHz "video core"... |
21:10:43 | preglow | i'm pretty sure it's arc based |
21:10:45 | Tachikoma | i ordered one off ebay |
21:10:59 | Tachikoma | and can tell if its the grayscale or the photo |
21:11:02 | preglow | but that might be bs |
21:11:13 | linuxstb | Tachikoma: If it's just advertised as "4th gen" then it will most likely be the greyscale version. |
21:11:52 | Tachikoma | well i was looking on youtube and this guy had a video of a 4th gen with colour |
21:13:07 | linuxstb | The 4th gen with colour is more often called "ipod Color" or "ipod Photo". |
21:13:34 | Tachikoma | i know about the ipod photo |
21:14:21 | linuxstb | If the ebay advert didn't advertise colour, then I would be very surprised if it was. |
21:14:49 | Tachikoma | alot of them don't |
21:14:58 | Tachikoma | it looks like it has colour |
21:15:00 | | Join otih_ [0] (n=otih@p54A4FF54.dip.t-dialin.net) |
21:15:34 | Tachikoma | only reason i am getting it it to install linux on it |
21:16:09 | linuxstb | You mean Rockbox? ;) |
21:16:10 | Tachikoma | i am a huge linux nut |
21:16:20 | Tachikoma | podzilla or rockbox |
21:16:52 | linuxstb | podzilla is an application that runs on the ipodlinux kernel. Rockbox is a complete standalone firmware replacement - nothing to do with Linux. |
21:17:11 | Tachikoma | ohh |
21:17:14 | Tachikoma | i want |
21:17:16 | Tachikoma | lol |
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21:18:11 | Tachikoma | i just download the installer from the rockbox site? |
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21:19:38 | nls | wow, the gigabeat S is almost 9mm thinner than my h320 and slightly smaller in the other dimensions too /me wants one |
21:19:50 | | Join Buschel [0] (n=AndreeBu@p54A3D53E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
21:21:58 | * | slarti likes his iaudio x5l... the battery life is incredible |
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21:30:20 | linuxstb | mpeccorini: Have you thought about updating the manual for chessbox? |
21:34:18 | | Part david11 |
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21:37:45 | netmasta10bt | is FM working on sansa? |
21:38:21 | nls | netmasta10bt: not in the official builds, there's a patch for it though |
21:38:33 | netmasta10bt | nls: great thx much |
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21:42:55 | mpeccorini | linuxstb: no I had not thought about that, but now that you mention it, I definitely will |
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21:43:31 | Buschel | prelow: you are there? |
21:43:37 | Buschel | preglow* |
21:44:47 | mpeccorini | linuxstb: however, I think I'd rather spend some more time adding the features listed in the wiki and take care of the manual when they're done |
21:44:59 | mpeccorini | linuxstb: what do you think? |
21:46:01 | linuxstb | mpeccorini: It's up to you what you want to work on - I just thought I would mention it as I see you had a desire to document things.... |
21:48:20 | | Quit jaczehack ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
21:48:25 | mpeccorini | linuxstb: hehe, if you mention that because of the ListWidget in the wiki, that was because I would have been VERY greatful if that had already existed ;-) |
21:48:58 | mpeccorini | but yes, I will update the manual, there's no point in adding features if no one can use them |
21:49:10 | linuxstb | Or if no-one knows about them... |
21:49:34 | mpeccorini | right |
21:50:03 | linuxstb | If you want to become an A-list patch submitter, you could even include manual patches with your code patches... |
21:50:44 | mpeccorini | sounds good, I didn't know the manual was in the SVN repository ... |
21:50:57 | mpeccorini | what format is it written in? |
21:51:01 | mpeccorini | plain text? |
21:51:02 | nls | Tex |
21:51:04 | linuxstb | It's LaTeX. |
21:51:45 | nls | mpeccorini: it's quie easy to add stuff to it, just look at what's already there |
21:51:59 | mpeccorini | I will |
21:52:25 | mpeccorini | and if adding them to the patches is better, I'll do it that way |
21:52:39 | mpeccorini | them = the changes to the manual :p |
21:53:23 | nls | mpeccorini: yeah sure, although I would like to have the manual changes in a seperate patch which of course can be posted in the same task |
21:53:43 | nls | but either way is absolutley fine :-) |
21:54:16 | mpeccorini | if it works better for you, I'll have it in a separate patch |
21:54:43 | mpeccorini | but in that case, I'll have a patch just for the manual so it's updated with the features already added |
21:55:44 | * | mpeccorini thinks LaTeX is a little cryptic, even more than the C language |
21:56:26 | * | linuxstb suspects mpeccorini hasn't done much Perl |
21:56:45 | * | mpeccorini hasn't done any Perl at all |
21:56:53 | * | preglow doesn't get why people think perl looks cryptic |
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21:57:14 | preglow | Buschel: i'm here now, but i've got to go pretty soon and haven't got time for too much |
21:57:24 | * | mpeccorini thinks it's probably because they don't know it |
21:57:36 | preglow | also, it uses $ and @ characters |
21:57:37 | preglow | heh |
21:57:54 | Buschel | preglow: that's ok. you've made up your mind reagrding the decoder optimizations? |
21:57:56 | preglow | but they really do clarify instead of obfuscate |
21:58:28 | preglow | Buschel: haven't had time for rockbox stuff at all, sorry |
21:58:39 | linuxstb | preglow: I don't think it looks cryptic, I think it is cryptic - i.e. I have no idea what's going on.... But that's obviously because I don't know it well enough. |
21:59:02 | preglow | Buschel: probably won't have time until after the weekend either |
21:59:04 | Buschel | preglow: :o) same to me, our customer is pushing a lot |
22:00 |
22:00:19 | Buschel | preglow: just to let you know -> even if still using full precision (all 32bit-defines unused) the performance is +10% on ipod and about +3-4% on coldfire |
22:01:19 | mpeccorini | linuxstb: how can I preview the changes to Tex files, can you recommend a good/light/free/easy-to-use viewer? |
22:01:40 | mpeccorini | ... for windows |
22:03:54 | preglow | Buschel: yeah, aware of it |
22:07:54 | amiconn | This is musepack, correct? |
22:08:14 | linuxstb | mpeccorini: You "compile" it to either PDF or html. |
22:08:41 | | Quit rift ("Lost terminal") |
22:09:09 | linuxstb | mpeccorini: Create a build directory (e.g. build-manual), run ../tools/configure, and select "M" for manual. Then type "make" (for PDF) or "make html". |
22:09:32 | amiconn | I mean, the various mp3 decoders don't produce bit identical output, there are those various levels of compliance |
22:10:00 | mpeccorini | linuxstb: ok, thanks |
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22:11:27 | Buschel | amiconn: yes, i was talking of musepack |
22:11:58 | linuxstb | Buschel: (you may already have done this) but regardless of what gets enabled when your changes are committed, it would be nice to have a #define to control the accuracy, so both options are still available in the code. |
22:12:29 | amiconn | How would the amount of deviation caused by the additional optimisations relate to what the mp3 compliance levels allow? |
22:12:34 | Buschel | linuxstb: that's exactly the way the patch is done |
22:12:44 | linuxstb | Buschel: I'll stop stating the obvious then ;) |
22:12:47 | amiconn | Do all mpc decoders up to now produce bit identical output? |
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22:13:52 | Buschel | amiconn: no, normally the difference is +/-1 over 16bit range |
22:14:22 | saratoga | how many MPC decoders are there? The official one and peters right? |
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22:15:19 | saratoga | preglow: I saw a used gigabeat S go on ebay for < 100 shipped the other day |
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22:15:29 | linuxstb | saratoga: Do you have a stripped-down wma2wav based on the current ffmpeg? |
22:15:35 | Buschel | there is a long history of official ones −− there was lots of optimizing in the past (especiall around 2000-2002) |
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22:15:52 | saratoga | if you're interested in the port, I'd be willing to kick in 30 USD for one, maybe others would |
22:16:15 | saratoga | linuxstb: yes I do, as well as an updated patch from the old code |
22:16:20 | saratoga | do you want either? |
22:16:35 | linuxstb | I would be interested in the version based on current ffmpeg. |
22:16:38 | amiconn | Buschel: I just want to get an idea what enabling these additional optimisations means regarding sound quality |
22:16:45 | saratoga | (i'm afraid the rockbox decoder still has issues with the huffman coding though) |
22:17:01 | saratoga | ok, i'll upload it |
22:17:02 | amiconn | It might not be bad; lossy audio compression is always about making compromises |
22:17:16 | toffe82 | saratoga: it was a working S ? |
22:17:25 | linuxstb | saratoga: Is it just a program that you link with ffmpeg, or is it using the ffmpeg .c files directly, with your own makefile. |
22:17:28 | amiconn | If one doesn't want to make compromises, he'd go lossless |
22:17:30 | | Quit saratoga (Client Quit) |
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22:17:56 | saratoga | sorry |
22:17:59 | saratoga | my own makefile |
22:18:04 | linuxstb | Good. |
22:18:07 | saratoga | i do not build ffmpeg |
22:18:32 | Buschel | amicon: if you take a look at the images i submitted in the patch-description, you will see the amount of additional noise which is committed by the 32bit-optimization |
22:18:34 | preglow | amiconn: the differences seem to be unnoticable |
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22:18:51 | Buschel | amicon: noise is below masking... |
22:19:17 | amiconn | Hmm. |
22:19:34 | linuxstb | saratoga: Have you spent much effort in stripping it down, or is it just at "first-attempt" stage? |
22:19:45 | * | amiconn didn't use mpc so far |
22:19:45 | Buschel | amicon: or better -> additional noise is below noise which is added through encoding |
22:19:56 | saratoga | a fair amount of effort, but it still needs a lot more |
22:20:18 | saratoga | theres a lot of crap left in the various structs, and some of the ffmpeg abstraction stuff is still there for the decoder initialization |
22:20:40 | saratoga | but its more stripped down then marsdaddy's |
22:21:11 | | Quit PaulJam__ (".") |
22:21:31 | saratoga | i'm actually very impressed with John Paul's decoder |
22:21:51 | saratoga | i think it should be very fast if he'd bothered to do the fixed point stuff in asm and to use iram |
22:22:17 | saratoga | given the issues he had with c fixed point and running his look ups in DRAM, i'm not surprised it was slow |
22:23:04 | saratoga | but even in 32 bit precision, he has no overflows at all in my test files, and only occasional problems with some as yet unidentified bug in the huffman coding I think |
22:24:35 | saratoga | here you go http://www.duke.edu/~mgg6/rockbox/wmaplay.zip |
22:25:21 | preglow | yeah, he mentioned one bug, i remember |
22:25:27 | preglow | but why would huffman decoding bug out? |
22:25:40 | saratoga | no idea |
22:25:44 | saratoga | but it appears to |
22:25:54 | saratoga | rarely, it'll return garbage for a couple hundred frames |
22:26:05 | saratoga | at least i think its huffman, or unpacking the exponents or something |
22:26:13 | saratoga | its not in the MDCT or windowing at least |
22:26:28 | saratoga | i spent all night going through those and they appear to work correctly |
22:26:34 | preglow | nice |
22:26:34 | linuxstb | Are you able to create a very small WMA file that exhibits the problem? |
22:26:39 | saratoga | i think he just added a bug somewhere |
22:26:41 | saratoga | sure |
22:27:08 | saratoga | updated the wmaplay zip |
22:27:16 | saratoga | so redownload it |
22:27:26 | saratoga | the one i put up was seeked to a problem spot in a test sample |
22:27:43 | saratoga | test sample: http://www.duke.edu/~mgg6/rockbox/g_128k.wma |
22:27:58 | linuxstb | saratoga: That looks a managable number of files... |
22:28:33 | saratoga | a lot of them are half #if 0 and not much else too! |
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22:29:11 | saratoga | wmatest2.c is the loader, its pretty simple once the ffmpeg stuff is out of the way |
22:30:09 | saratoga | basically, theres an open on the input file and codec which call the init functions in the asf and wma c files respectively |
22:30:11 | linuxstb | Hmm, I get a segmentation fault running "./wmaplay g_128k.wma" |
22:30:17 | saratoga | sorry |
22:30:27 | saratoga | ./wmaplay g_128k.wma out.wav |
22:30:32 | linuxstb | Ah, OK |
22:31:08 | linuxstb | Still a segmentation fault... |
22:32:19 | saratoga | oh me too |
22:32:22 | saratoga | let me see |
22:32:46 | saratoga | ./wmaplay g_128k.wma out.wav b |
22:32:53 | saratoga | sorry, dumb debug code i was just trying |
22:33:10 | saratoga | i made it look for a third input that triggers different debug screens |
22:33:13 | saratoga | i should comment that out |
22:33:26 | linuxstb | Not to worry. |
22:34:33 | saratoga | as you can see i was just trouble shooting the MDCT and window length code in that build, so you get a lot of crap |
22:35:00 | saratoga | been dumping the coefficinets in both versions to see whats wrong with the integer one |
22:35:31 | saratoga | what were you looking for anyway? |
22:35:35 | preglow | saratoga: you checked out if the bugging happens both on target and computer? |
22:35:49 | saratoga | i can't build for the target yet |
22:35:52 | saratoga | for lack of a target |
22:35:57 | | Quit PaulJam_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
22:36:08 | saratoga | i ordered a sansa and a gigabeat, but the holidays in the US mean the mail is very slow |
22:37:13 | preglow | you have no rockbox targets? : |
22:37:15 | preglow | ) |
22:37:22 | toffe82 | saratoga: what gigabeat ? S30 or S60 |
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22:39:24 | linuxstb | saratoga: The reason I asked was that I'm thinking (but not really that seriously) about porting the realaudio Cook decoder. So thought your stripped down ffmpeg could help... |
22:39:48 | saratoga | toffe82: sorry, just an F20 |
22:40:28 | saratoga | linuxstb: sure, could help you too |
22:40:30 | toffe82 | I thought you were interested in a S ;) |
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22:40:40 | saratoga | I am, but no time to port that now |
22:40:47 | saratoga | got to get this WMA thing working |
22:40:56 | saratoga | one project at a time |
22:41:00 | * | bluebrother returns and notices that some LaTeX talk has happened ... |
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22:41:37 | saratoga | basically, my stripped down version would work great, just got to change it to register the RA demux and decoder instead of ASF or WMA |
22:42:16 | linuxstb | saratoga: That's what I thought... |
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22:42:31 | saratoga | what is cook anyway? |
22:42:35 | saratoga | i thought real used AAC now |
22:42:40 | preglow | used |
22:42:43 | preglow | cook is an older format, afaik |
22:42:55 | saratoga | its already fixed point? |
22:43:19 | preglow | aye |
22:43:24 | linuxstb | I thought it was, but just checking the code now, it doesn't seem to be... Maybe the patch wasn't committed. |
22:43:35 | preglow | by the same dude that said he'd tackle wma |
22:43:38 | preglow | linuxstb: oh? |
22:45:02 | saratoga | the GSOC projects have now started right? has austriancoder said anything about his USB project? |
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22:46:16 | preglow | saratoga: they started as of yesterday, afaik |
22:46:46 | preglow | nico_p is around, so i assume he's started his. the speec synth guy was busy until june 10th, and ac i haven't heard from |
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22:47:49 | saratoga | i created a wikipage for my project in order to save people digging through IRC |
22:48:04 | saratoga | if anyone sees AC, bug him to do the same, so i can stop asking about it |
22:48:44 | linuxstb | preglow: Unless I'm missing something, it seems the patch was never committed in the end... |
22:49:03 | saratoga | ironically, id rather his project work then mine |
22:49:24 | preglow | heh |
22:49:32 | saratoga | outside of some sansa users, who cares about wma |
22:49:36 | preglow | i'm really quite excited about all four projects |
22:49:49 | saratoga | its just mp3 with no subbands and variable MDCT window sizes |
22:49:56 | preglow | saratoga: hell, i do, i have a wma file i'd like to be able to play :) |
22:50:01 | linuxstb | saratoga: wma is popular amongst iriver users as well... |
22:50:17 | bluebrother | who needs users anyway? ;-) |
22:50:19 | * | linuxstb hopes he can still find his wma file |
22:50:33 | Nico_P | preglow: I haven't realy started mine |
22:50:35 | preglow | saratoga: that pretty much sums up aac too... |
22:50:35 | saratoga | i linked my one WMA file if anyone needs it |
22:50:48 | saratoga | true |
22:50:54 | linuxstb | So the three people showing interest in WMA have one file each? ;) |
22:51:08 | saratoga | its amusing how no one has really come up with a way to really beat MP3 |
22:51:12 | preglow | Nico_P: get going!"¤!"¤!" |
22:51:17 | saratoga | just fix the stupid bugs in the format |
22:51:27 | saratoga | but still leave the idea intact |
22:51:41 | preglow | saratoga: turns out mp3 was pretty flexible after all, yeah |
22:51:52 | Nico_P | preglow: :) I need to figure some things out |
22:52:12 | Nico_P | if you know the playback engine I'll appreciate your help |
22:52:15 | saratoga | the one cool thing about WMA is the many block sizes you can use, I haven't heard of that before |
22:52:22 | preglow | Nico_P: i happen to know absolutely nothing about it |
22:52:32 | preglow | Nico_P: try getting hold of jhMikeS, he knows a hing or two |
22:52:34 | preglow | thing, yes |
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22:52:48 | Nico_P | will do |
22:53:04 | preglow | saratoga: as in it uses more than two in one file? |
22:53:16 | saratoga | yeah |
22:53:27 | preglow | cool |
22:53:29 | saratoga | they're variable in powers of two from 128 to 4096 IIRC |
22:53:38 | preglow | vorbis also has tons of window sizes, but only two can be used in one file |
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22:54:19 | nls | Nico_P: lostlogic also knows a fair bit about the playback engine, although he's not around much nowadays |
22:54:33 | saratoga | should give wma very good transient handling I guess, but i have to wonder how they deal with the MDCT reconstructon, since they'd need a ton of different windows |
22:54:40 | Nico_P | yeah, I'll try to ask him for advice if he shows up |
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22:55:04 | Nico_P | what I'd like to do is set up a branch for my work so that people who know the code can review it and maybe help out a bit |
22:55:33 | preglow | saratoga: well, from what i hear, wma has nasty pre-echo tendencies which point to anything but a good transient handling |
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22:55:53 | preglow | saratoga: different window sizes is no problem for mdct as long as you overlap them nicely |
22:56:15 | saratoga | yeah, but you'll need a window for each possible window transistion right? |
22:56:31 | saratoga | i guess they have some formula to convert between them |
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22:56:47 | preglow | well, kind of, but the new windows can still be constructed from existing ones |
22:56:53 | preglow | so it's not like you need to generate new coefs or anything |
22:56:53 | saratoga | the code says something about resampling them, but i don't know how that wokrs |
22:57:20 | saratoga | maybe it is just as easy as zero padding/stuff to step between sizes |
22:57:22 | preglow | i don't really know, all my playing about with mdct has been done with fixed-size blocks |
22:57:49 | saratoga | been meaning to ask: is there some way to get gcc to spit the output from the preprocessor out? |
22:57:56 | saratoga | as in preprocessed .c files |
22:58:47 | Bagder | -E |
23:00 |
23:00:18 | | Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]") |
23:00:33 | linuxstb | saratoga: Is some of that zip file you sent me from an old ffmpeg? |
23:01:41 | | Join TrueJournals [0] (n=aimjourn@c-24-12-147-61.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
23:02:05 | jimh_jimh | guys - I've been working on enhancing the mpegplayer plugin - is anyone here familiar with this code? |
23:02:35 | saratoga | linuxstb: yes, the asf stuff is parly from it |
23:03:00 | saratoga | since the newer stuff mainly added more abstractions I didn't want or need |
23:03:06 | linuxstb | saratoga: OK, that explains why the cook decoder doesn't work... |
23:03:24 | saratoga | the codec interfaces haven't changed though |
23:03:37 | saratoga | they still only expose themselves through a function pointer table |
23:03:48 | | Join p3tur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
23:03:49 | linuxstb | I'm sure it's fixable. Just wanted to make sure I was understanding what I was looking at. |
23:04:03 | saratoga | though the function names in futils and utils.c will be different, moved around and changed some |
23:04:17 | linuxstb | Yes, that's what I was hoping you had reconciled... |
23:04:24 | saratoga | actually, i never got the current SVN ffmpeg to work |
23:04:42 | saratoga | so i took the WMA code from it and went with that |
23:05:08 | saratoga | they changed something in utils.c that broke all the example code i could find, eventually i gave up in fustration |
23:05:55 | linuxstb | I can understand that... |
23:06:03 | linuxstb | jimh_jimh: What's your question? |
23:06:23 | saratoga | probably the code you have will have a mountain of crap in utils and cook.c related to "probing" which is how they figure out what a container actually contains |
23:06:43 | saratoga | if you strip that out and just hard code Cook to .RA, then most of the changes since then don't really matter |
23:07:01 | saratoga | the codec and container init stuff is relateively simple and not changed very much |
23:07:48 | jimh_jimh | linuxstb: I'm trying to get ff/rew to work - I've managed to get the sound thread to jump around to the new playing point, but the video won't jump ahead/back in the buffer - any suggestions? |
23:07:56 | linuxstb | saratoga: OK, but I think I need to leave it now. |
23:08:15 | | Part Llorea1 |
23:08:41 | linuxstb | jimh_jimh: I know jhmikes has done a lot of work on the buffering code in mpegplayer (and was also planning to implement seeking at some point). He's probably the best person to talk to. |
23:09:51 | | Quit davina (Remote closed the connection) |
23:10:00 | jimh_jimh | linuxstb: thanks - I've also written some code that allows for resuming - I'll try to get in touch with him in case he wants to incorporate it with his work |
23:12:41 | | Quit pepie34 ("Ex-Chat") |
23:12:51 | TrueJournals | jimh_jimh: You should post your code on flyspray... maybe some people could help there |
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23:13:52 | | Nick p3tur is now known as petur (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
23:16:41 | saratoga | ugh my Sansa is in a building less then 55 minutes from my door, yet the post office is predicting another week to get it to me |
23:16:49 | saratoga | i don't understand how this is possible |
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23:19:49 | ivan` | hi - is there any easy way to take something like http://tinyurl.com/2fcfk2 and create an 'flatter' equalization for the DT990 on rockbox? |
23:19:56 | ivan` | without manually playing with Q values and listening all day |
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23:23:03 | | Part TrueJournals |
23:23:55 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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23:32:34 | linuxstb | Llorean: Around? |
23:36:44 | Llorean | linuxstb: Yes |
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23:37:17 | alexsaway | heya |
23:37:39 | alexsaway | anyone here? |
23:37:44 | Bagder | yes |
23:39:08 | linuxstb | Llorean: I was trying to modify a forum post containing a DOS directory listing so it was readable, but got some odd behaviour I thought you might understand. The <DIR> part of the message was being interpreted as markup - but only in the real post, not the preview. i.e. the preview was different to the final post... |
23:39:11 | stripwax | ivan` - I can't think of any easy way.. |
23:39:27 | ivan` | that's ok, i mostly got it with the peaks |
23:39:42 | | Quit thegeek (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
23:39:51 | ivan` | my ears are way too sensitive to highs |
23:39:57 | Llorean | linuxstb: Yeah, Anything wrapped in a <> is considered markup, but for some reason not in the preview, and I haven't really gotten to look into it. |
23:40:08 | stripwax | I sortof feel there should be a way to plot the frequency response of the sw filter though .. preglow? |
23:40:10 | Llorean | linuxstb: The easiest solution, as a workaround, is to add spaces < DIR > |
23:40:24 | linuxstb | Llorean: That's what I did in the end. |
23:40:51 | alexsaway | uhm i think im abit screwed.. i cant boot in to normal boot , i cant get it connected to pc becuse rockbox doesnt support that yet on sansa |
23:40:53 | alexsaway | any ideas? |
23:40:53 | alexsaway | .. |
23:41:12 | Llorean | linuxstb: TBH, I'm kinda hoping that it'll just be 'fixed' with an update. |
23:41:41 | Llorean | alexsaway: Why can't you boot into the official firmware? What does it say when you try? |
23:41:46 | | Quit atsea- (Remote closed the connection) |
23:42:02 | alexsaway | well , i installed that thing that auto boots in to orginal |
23:42:31 | alexsaway | now suddenly it just boots into rockbox |
23:42:36 | alexsaway | cant press < button either |
23:42:52 | linuxstb | Llorean: I think the problem is that the forum software isn't quoting <> - so "<DIR>" is being sent to the browser as-is, and is processed as a tag. |
23:42:56 | Bagder | alexsaway: you can use recovery mode to restore the original |
23:43:10 | alexsaway | how? |
23:43:16 | Llorean | alexsaway: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200TroubleShooting |
23:43:24 | alexsaway | thanks <33 |
23:43:45 | Llorean | linuxstb: It just seems odd to me that the preview mode handles it differently than the actual post mode. |
23:45:14 | linuxstb | Llorean: So people can use HTML in messages? |
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23:47:42 | Llorean | linuxstb: I mean, though, the whole point of preview is to show you what the message will look like when posted, right? So any time the preview and message don't look the same, it's a bug? |
23:48:39 | linuxstb | Llorean: Sorry, my question wasn't an answer to your message... I agree preview should do what the name says. |
23:49:15 | linuxstb | But my question was whether people can use html in messages - I at least seem to be able to, without the [html] markup. |
23:49:54 | Buschel | stripwax: you there? |
23:50:14 | Llorean | linuxstb: People aren't supposed to be able to, the option is unchecked. |
23:50:20 | stripwax | linuxstb - what is the status of the MPA patch in http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/6705?pagenum=4 ? Other than the profiling, (and the potential small diffs due to the new dct), is it committable? |
23:50:21 | stripwax | Buschel - ay |
23:51:14 | linuxstb | Llorean: Am I (I'm not sure what group I'm in) supposed to be able to? |
23:51:20 | Buschel | stripwax: just saw your post regarding the battery type patch. is there any way to differ 60/80GB iPODs from 30GB ones? |
23:51:27 | Llorean | linuxstb: As far as I know, it's not group specific |
23:51:37 | Buschel | stripwax: at compiletime? |
23:51:39 | Llorean | It's supposed to be disabled across the board. |
23:51:42 | * | Llorean checks his dummy account |
23:52:02 | stripwax | Buschel - when you configure, you get the option of specifying memory size. 60GB and 80GB have 64MB. Could use that? |
23:52:15 | stripwax | (i.e. ../tools/configure asks for ipod video memory size) |
23:52:42 | amiconn | Someone should really check how much RAM the G5.5 30GB has |
23:52:49 | stripwax | was just about to say same |
23:52:56 | stripwax | battery too. |
23:53:17 | Llorean | linuxstb: It seems any account can do it. |
23:53:19 | amiconn | Should be simple - just install a 64MB build. If it runs, it has 64MB, if it crashes, it has only 32 |
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23:53:43 | Buschel | batteries are 400mAh for 30GB and 600mAh for 60/80GB (Li-Ion) |
23:53:54 | stripwax | Buschel - 5.5G too? |
23:54:11 | Buschel | yep, that's what apple sites sais |
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23:56:10 | saratoga | stripwax: been wondering about that patch too |
23:56:16 | saratoga | seems like a good thing to have |
23:58:07 | amiconn | hmmmm |
23:58:25 | * | amiconn would like to see mpegplayer support sample rates != 44100 Hz |