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#rockbox log for 2007-06-13

00:00:26Tachikomawhat section?
00:00:58scorchejust search for "reset settings"
00:01:00 Join saratoga [0] (i=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:02:39 Quit moos ("Glory to Rockbox")
00:04:02Tachikomanothing there
00:04:31Tachikomanever mind found it
00:05:16Tachikomashit i need to charge it
00:07:12pearldiveris anyone interested in buying brand new gigabeat f40?
00:09:41Tachikomastupid cheap charger
00:10:21 Quit Mouser_X (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:10:22XavierGramiconn: my drop was smaller this time, 142 MB
00:12:17XavierGrI didn't dfrag though
00:12:35XavierGrgod deleting compressing and repeat takes much time
00:13:36 Join linuxstb__ [0] (
00:16:05 Quit Tachikoma ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'")
00:18:14 Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:18:20 Join webguest39 [0] (i=55006221@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:19:28XavierGramiconn: did you remove the whole /usr/share/locale folder?
00:19:28 Quit webguest39 (Client Quit)
00:19:34 Join webguest39 [0] (i=55006221@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:20:02 Quit webguest39 (Client Quit)
00:20:45DChocWhen trying to compile a Simulator for ipod Video i get the error SDL is not (properly) installed
00:21:28DChocand could not find SDL-config
00:21:38krazykityou need the -dev package
00:22:30DChocfrom the rockbox site?
00:22:38krazykitfrom your distro
00:23:01DChocwhat version or does it not matter?
00:25:00 Quit entheh ("^~")
00:25:37markunpearldiver: depends on the price
00:27:24 Join BRi7Xxon [0] (
00:28:01 Join safetydan [0] (i=cbca159f@rockbox/developer/safetydan)
00:28:03 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
00:29:56 Quit BRi7X (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:30:46pearldivermarkun and you're in europe as well
00:31:02markunI am
00:31:49pearldiverthe shipping cost there is not fun
00:31:53pearldiver(from here)
00:32:01markunah, you are selling it?
00:32:29pearldiveri have an extra
00:33:21DerPapstlemme guess.. rockbox is preinstalled :D
00:33:32 Quit linuxstb__ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:33:54pearldiverhehe it still has all the protection stickers
00:34:39DerPapstand what's the price (excl. shipping)?
00:35:38 Quit XavierGr ("One firmware to rule them all!")
00:36:25DerPapst40GB right?
00:36:59DerPapstso about 8520ac...
00:37:17 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
00:38:08 Join XavierGr [0] (
00:38:17DerPapstprice sounds ok... but i'm bit low on monnay right now :P
00:39:57DerPapstwhy are you selling it? do you want to quit rockbox? ;)
00:39:59 Quit obo ("bye")
00:41:18netmasta10bthey is there a way to speedup playback ?
00:43:29safetydannetmasta10bt: yes, use the pitch screen
00:43:35safetydanbut it's probably not going to do what you want
00:43:39netmasta10btgreat thx
00:43:56netmasta10btlisten to podcasts really fast
00:46:05safetydannetmasta10bt: well it will speed up playback, but the pitch goes up as well so you end up listening to chipmunks
00:46:19krazykitwhich can be amusing.
00:48:13 Quit kretende1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:49:09 Join z35 [0] (
00:52:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:53:00 Part maffe
00:55:50 Quit Xerion (" ")
00:56:47 Quit ender` (" ‮tsimehclA muinortueN :notlimaH .F reteP -- ”.degatnavdasid yllanoisnemid ekil tsuj er’ew ,srossessop ton er’eW“ .)
00:57:39 Join mpeccorini [0] (
00:57:40 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
00:59:08LloreanAnyone with an iPod 5G running official Rockbox around?
00:59:44DerPapst5.5G and official (but self compiled)
01:00:04LloreanJust asking, there's not a LCD brightness option in SVN Rockbox on 5G, is there?
01:00:13*DerPapst checks
01:01:46DerPapstonly backlight fading
01:03:51*DerPapst wonders what the captioin backlight option is for...
01:04:12LloreanTurns the backlight on at the end and beginning of each track for X seconds
01:04:30amiconnX being your chosen backlight timeout
01:04:34LloreanIt's basically the fastest way known to drain your battery outside of always on. :-P
01:04:43amiconn(or 5 seconds if your normal backlight tiomeout is shorter than that)
01:05:13*DerPapst sets it back to no then
01:05:26*amiconn uses caption backlight at home
01:09:40 Nick Caliban_ is now known as Caliban (
01:10:42pearldiverDerPapst i got 4 gigabeats
01:11:19DerPapstah :D
01:12:44 Join linuxstb__ [0] (
01:13:16 Quit spiorf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
01:14:37 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:14:38DerPapstgood night at all :)
01:14:41 Quit DerPapst ("So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!")
01:16:45 Join TrueJournals [0] (
01:16:58 Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
01:18:00saratogadamn, the sansa 8GB is down to 157 on Dell's site
01:18:01 Join spiorf [0] (
01:18:12 Quit linuxstb_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
01:18:14saratogafigures, 2 weeks after I order it'd be 20 less
01:19:05LloreanClearly a clever plot against you.
01:20:55saratogai really should have just waited, i use my gigabeat more anyway
01:22:52LloreanI'd use my Sansa more if the battery life was a bit better. It's already long enough to last how long I'd use it, but I hate looking at the screen and seeing it so much less every time I check.
01:27:32 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
01:29:42chrisjs169what does EC_FIFO_READ_FULL mean?
01:31:38pearldiverLlorean really? you like sansa more than gigabeat?
01:32:20Lloreanpearldiver: I'd say they'd both be about equal if it had "proper" battery life.
01:32:58LloreanI have more use for a flash player, I'm always nervous about HD players when I'm doing something active, even though in most cases they should be fine.
01:33:44 Quit safetydan ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:33:54LloreanBut the Sansa's a fine little machine, and will be really great if we ever resolve the PortalPlayer issues.
01:34:41chrisjs169This isn't completely rockbox related, but 0x800000 is 524288 bytes, right?
01:35:11 Join launcher [0] (
01:38:03 Nick linuxstb__ is now known as linuxstb (
01:38:13amiconnXavierGr: Down to 138MB now...
01:39:04 Quit mpeccorini (" HydraIRC -> <- Organize your IRC")
01:39:39amiconn/lol ?
01:39:47 Join safetydan [0] (i=cbca159f@rockbox/developer/safetydan)
01:42:56SoapLlorean: the issues with the adjustable backlight brightness patch and (many) pluggins are a "known" issue. How well known I don't know as the issue isn't listed in the FS entry now that I look.
01:43:11 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
01:43:54LloreanSoap: Yeah, I thought so, but I wasn't sure I'd maybe missed it getting fixed and/or committed.
01:45:01launcherIs this a known bug or am i just doing something wrong? when listening to an mp3 every 15-20 seconds the sound hangs for a second and then it continues on like nothing happened
01:45:10launcherdoesn't hang when playing videos though
01:45:15Soapon an ipod?
01:45:22launcherusing latest rockbox on H10 5gb
01:45:35Soapusing the software EQ? or a WPS with peakmeters?
01:45:52launcheri'll try w/o the EQ
01:45:54Soap(and for sake of this discussion, the H10 is an iPod) ;)
01:46:03launcherlol k :P
01:46:46launcherdisabled EQ... listening now :)
01:47:30 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
01:47:33launcherseeeeeems to be working :|
01:49:01TrueJournalsEQ is what's doing it
01:49:15TrueJournalsEQ lags the H10 because it taks up so much processing power...
01:49:32launcherk yeah it would seem so
01:49:39launcherlistened to a few songs now and no jumping
01:49:51launcherthanks :)
01:50:13chrisjs169can someone direct me to a place where i can learn about FIFO?
01:50:49 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
01:51:42 Join Mouser_X [0] (
01:52:11safetydanchrisjs169: a FIFO is just a datastructure. It describes what happens to elements when they're added and removed from it. In this case "first-in, first-out" which is basically a queue.
01:53:15chrisjs169safetydan: ok, i'm trying to figure out what exactly "sd_poll_status(FIFO_FULL, 0x80000, EC_FIFO_READ_FULL | DO_PANIC);" means
01:53:26Soaplauncher: if you are using all five bands. Try fewer. Each one takes it's own chunk of CPU.
01:53:50launcherah, i was using the preset 'Rock'
01:55:12safetydanchrisjs169: ah, now you're talking about what a particular piece of hardware does. At a guess that's polling to see if the FIFO is full, but why and what the FIFO is for I can't tell you. What source are you looking at?
01:56:59chrisjs169the latest patch in FS7134
01:57:23chrisjs169I'm just trying to figure out what FIFO FULL means exactly, and what causes it
01:58:15launcherwhat's a peakmeter?
01:59:00chrisjs169the peakmeter is the two horizontal bars that appear in the Now playing screen (when %pm is in the wps file)
01:59:52safetydanchrisjs169: some hardware have places where you can put commands for the hardware to execute. These are typically FIFOs of some description but have limited capacity. So FIFO full in this case probably means too many commands have been issued to the hardware at once.
01:59:55launcherah k
02:01:04chrisjs169so if 0x80000 is 512 KB, that means that if the FIFO reaches 512 KB, it panics?
02:01:27safetydanchrisjs169: though reading the fs task it seems that the fifo full error may not be the actuall error and it might just be a misunderstanding of how the hardware works.
02:02:18chrisjs169safetydan: ok
02:02:50saratogais EQ run on the same core as the codec?
02:03:37XavierGramiconn: hard competition :P
02:03:46linuxstb_saratoga: Everything is on the same core at the moment.
02:04:03chrisjs169safetydan: so if 0x80000 is 512 KB, that means that if the FIFO reaches 512 KB, it panics?
02:05:53safetydanchrisjs169: I'm not familiar with the patch or the Sansa hardware so I can't tell you exactly how that function works. I doubt that the FIFO is 512 KB though as that's an absolutely massive command buffer.
02:07:20chrisjs169safetydan: ok, i think if i could figure out what exactly that line means it'd solve most of these questions :P
02:08:33saratogalinuxstb: so what became of the dual core support that was added a couple months back?
02:11:46linuxstb_saratoga: It's not complete. It works in mpegplayer (the video thread runs on the COP), but that's all.
02:11:51 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
02:12:34 Part pixelma
02:13:05 Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@
02:15:44launcherthanks for your quick and informative help guys o/
02:15:46 Quit launcher ("( :: NoNameScript 4.02 :: )")
02:17:41 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
02:19:55safetydanchrisjs169: if you read the definition of the sd_poll_status function it should clear things up for you.
02:20:34safetydanThe 0x80000 appears to be a timeout value for exiting the polling operation.
02:21:12 Join saratoga [0] (i=9803c6dd@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
02:22:18chrisjs169safetydan: ok, thanks
02:24:17safetydanchrisjs169: basically it looks to be that that sd_poll_status line your looking at polls the status of the FIFO_FULL status bit. If it's value is EC_FIFO_READ_FULL, the panic function is called and the code dies.
02:26:05chrisjs169safetydan: so increasing 0x80000 to say, 0x100000, would increase the time until it times out?
02:27:40safetydanchrisjs169: yes and I think the value is in microseconds but I could be wrong
02:29:27 Join lazka [0] (
02:29:51chrisjs169safetydan: ok, now, looking at the code, it appears EC_FIFO_READ_FULL is piped into DO_PANIC as the id, which appears as Error SDCard: 14 (EC_FIFO_READ_FULL being defined above as 14) - does that make sense at all? (I have very little experience in this)
02:30:15lazkahi guys... so, what do i have to do, to get wiki write permissions?
02:31:15Soapregister with your real name.
02:31:20safetydanchrisjs169: the | symbol in C means bitwise or
02:31:21Soapswear on your mother's grave you won't spam.
02:31:28Soapand ask for write permission.
02:32:05lazkaxD, kk
02:32:19 Quit Rob2222 ()
02:32:21lazkabtw. the registration page is kind of.. broken
02:32:25chrisjs169safetydan: ok
02:32:29 Join Rob2222 [0] (
02:32:41saratogalazka: whats your account name
02:33:01 Part Llorean
02:33:12lazkaw8 a sec, i'm registering right now
02:36:00saratogalazka: I think that did it
02:36:06saratogalet me know if it didn't
02:36:51lazkasaratoga: thx :)
02:43:26 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
02:43:39 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
02:44:45lymecaWhat should I try if my iPod turned on last night but won't boot up at all this morning even when plugged in to power
02:46:21 Join flami [0] (n=WooOoo@
02:46:25saratogalymeca: generally, you should try and reset it for at least a minute, and then if that doesn't work, let it charge overnight using an AC adapter
02:46:44saratogatheres some bug in the apple loader that causes them to not power up the screen if the power gets really low
02:46:47lymecasaratoga: Reset? How
02:46:53 Join Llorean [0] (
02:47:04saratogatheres some key combination for each ipod that resets them
02:47:09saratogacheck google
02:47:29flamihi , Im trying to update my bootloader , but i cant seem to uninstall/update the old bootloader ( which is from the very beginning of rockbox) . Is that normal ? how can i get rid of that old thing ? ( im using linux )
02:47:29lymecaThe weird thing is that I'm almost positive I powered the iPod down after using it, but I got a low battery icon when I turned it on in the morning.
02:47:29 Part TrueJournals
02:47:36lymecaIt's a 4th generation 20GB monochrome
02:47:44flami... ipod nano 1s gen
02:48:05saratogaflami: never tried, but i think you can just run ipodpatcher
02:48:17flamii did it now 3 times :/
02:48:36lymecasaratoga: I thought Rockbox powered off the device completely when you turn it off, not just sleep. How could the battery drain overnight from being off then?
02:48:41flamiit says uninstalled successfully ... but the old bootloader is still there ( same for install )
02:49:35saratogalymeca: the battery drains even when the ipod is off
02:50:20flami[INFO] Wrote 5123072 bytes to firmware partition
02:50:20flami[INFO] Bootloader installed successfully.
02:50:20flami .... but its still the old "black text on white background" ( and nice errors )
02:50:34XavierGramiconn: down to 135MB for me now, I don't think I will manage to make it even smaller :\
02:50:42Lloreanflami: Do you still have your backed up bootpartition then?
02:51:14flami.. uhm after my 5th try it worked :/
02:51:19Lloreanlymeca: The iPods seem to have some quirks about shutting down. The same problems have been known to affect people who don't have Rockbox installed if they let their iPod go into what apple calls "Deep Sleep"
02:51:40 Join jhulst [0] (
02:51:45flamihurray :P
02:51:52flamilong live randomness
02:51:59 Quit GodEater_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
02:52:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:52:54saratogaanyone think I could cut out the extra space on this skin to get it onto the F series?
02:55:01XavierGrvery hopeful thinking :\
02:55:17XavierGrI think it will be quite difficult in order not to ruin it
02:55:30saratogaseems like it might cover the screen, and i could just cut away a square over the plus
02:55:45XavierGrah that you could do it
02:55:58XavierGrbut you will have to do it nicely else the end result will be very bad
02:56:15XavierGrI've played around with cutting cases before
02:56:19XavierGrthe result was pitiful
02:56:49saratogaits like they've out-thought me
02:57:04XavierGrlike a glove
02:57:38XavierGrI would take that one if I would be ready to mod it
02:58:26 Join Rob222241 [0] (
02:59:09XavierGrwow rockbox trunk is 13440 files :O
02:59:16saratogawow the ABI people love that product
02:59:19saratogawill have to try it out
02:59:27XavierGrseems cheap too
02:59:27 Quit borisyeltsin (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
03:00:11lymecaLlorean: Switching hold on and off and then holding down Menu+Select worked... it booted up into Rockbox just fine and has 93% battery full.
03:00:35lymecasaratoga: Does this mean I should just remember how to reset it and do this again when it won't power up?
03:01:00 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
03:01:05 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
03:01:24saratogalymeca: well if your ipod is anything like mine i would recommend not forgetting how to reboot it
03:01:36saratogai probably did that once a week for about 3 years
03:01:59lymecaBut it's not technically rebooting is it? I mean the iPod WAS off wasn't it?
03:02:09lymecaNo battery drain occurred to my knowledge
03:02:23saratogayou're rebooting it when you do that
03:02:26 Join pseudo_ [0] (
03:02:39thegeekthe bestskinsever skin is truly awsome
03:02:44thegeekI have it on my 5.5G 80gb
03:03:01thegeekamazing how much abuse it can take without leaving permanent marks
03:04:51 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
03:08:50 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
03:11:04 Quit printfXh4 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:12:48 Join lape [0] (
03:12:59 Join otih [0] (
03:14:23lapehello, does Rockbox allow me to "drag n drop" file on ipod video? if yes, how do I do it?
03:16:55safetydanlape, yes and do what?
03:17:17BRi7Xxonlape: use explorer (or equivalent on whatever OS you may be using)
03:19:27 Quit otih_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:19:32 Quit secleinteer (Remote closed the connection)
03:19:42lapeim using explorer, so where do I drop my stuff? (ex: mp3)
03:19:48 Join secleinteer [0] (
03:20:22scorcheanywhere you want
03:21:17lapeanywhere in the ipod drive?
03:21:43safetydanlape, anywhere but .rockbox and ipod_control
03:22:48 Join billytwowilly [0] (
03:23:13lapeso, I dont see the stuff that I previously synced because i did it with itunes, is that it?
03:23:22 Join toffe82_ [0] (n=chatzill@
03:24:15 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
03:24:21 Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS)
03:27:32XavierGrlape yes, in order to put music on your ipod (if you use rockbox) you just drop to the folder of your choice. DON'T use itunes.
03:27:55lapehehe....ok thanks
03:28:50LloreanStrictly speaking, iTunes can work, but it complicates things because it hides your music.
03:29:51lapeI see that it works, and i also see that it hides my music cuz it renamed see
03:30:08 Join TrueJournals [0] (
03:30:11 Join mrzoom [0] (n=mrzoom@dedikerad/mrzoom)
03:32:31 Quit DChoc ("Leaving")
03:32:41 Quit pearldiver ("some games are better left unplayed")
03:33:20 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
03:34:03 Quit toffe82 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:37:23 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
03:38:54mrzoomI just installed rockbox on my Ipod 80gb, added a theme and some ogg-files and then i made the first database update. And now the pod is just dead :(
03:39:10LloreanSoap: I think you may have hit quote instead of edit, or something?
03:39:35saratogamrzoom: charge it for a while, then try resetting it
03:39:36Lloreanmrzoom: What exactly do you mean? "Just dead" is kinda vague for anyone to be helpful.
03:40:00SoapI need to ignore that thread.
03:40:22saratogaSoap: yeah that thread got long so I stopped reading it
03:40:26saratogai figure it'll work itself out
03:40:28safetydanSoap, probably safer. I think we have a good solution in hand (if I can actually get tagcache to work :)
03:40:37*JdGordon annoyed... the code shhuold work but it doesnt :'(
03:41:38Soapwhat solution do you have?????? Curious as get all.
03:42:06LloreanSoap: safetydan has coded up initial support for the TSOP etc tags
03:42:07Soap(though I believe "The Beatles" is all one proper noun and shouldn't be sorted as "Beatles, The")
03:42:17mrzoomLlorean: I think I can't start it.. Nothing happens when i'm holding down any key.
03:42:25LloreanSoap: I agree on the "The Beatles" issue.
03:42:25SoapBut I understand how minds can differ.
03:43:17Lloreanmrzoom: Try the standard reset instructions. Plug in the USB cable, turn hold On, turn hold Off, then hold Menu+Select until it restarts. This can take as much as 20-30 seconds in some rare situations. Keep your fingers steady, wiggling seems to decrease the reliability
03:43:20saratogaso when this is finally done, if I want to sort "The Misfits" as Misfits, then I'll have to edit some tags?
03:43:37safetydansaratoga, yes
03:43:53LloreanThough hopefully someone will code up a plugin to strip articles and write the tags for you.
03:44:02LloreanIt also provides a solution to "Various Artists" albums.
03:44:18saratogaso my idea of just having a list of articles defined in a language file somewhere wasn't well recieved?
03:44:20safetydanOne thing not covered though is proper locale sensitive sorting of accented characters but that's a whole other problem.
03:44:31Lloreansaratoga: It's not very flexible.
03:44:48Lloreansaratoga: What happens if you either A) Have songs from multiple languages, or B) Your article *isn't* an article in another language, and you have a universal list?
03:44:51safetydansaratoga, doesn't work across languages. I have a few songs by German and Spanish bands so what should it do with Die and Los for example?
03:45:14mrzoomLlorean: Oh.. Thanks, that did work :D
03:45:34saratogaI guess edit the language file?
03:45:42saratogastill probably easier then retagging
03:45:53safetydanCJK languages might also have some issues with ignore files
03:46:02lapeOn my ipod, why when i hit "files" one time I see the files, but when I hit files a second time, it goes directly into the file I open previously, I no longer see the file list
03:46:12Lloreansaratoga: How does that handle two bands that start with the same word, in one language it should be skipped, in another it shouldn't, and it's in the same user's collection though?
03:46:12saratogaparticularly for my case, where I have both APEV2 and ID3V2 tags spread across my files
03:46:32LloreanYou shouldn't have ApeV2 tags on Rockbox files anyway.
03:46:38alienbiker99wouldnt "The Beatles" be sorted under the b's as "The Beatles" with any of the solutions?
03:46:50saratogaLlorean: can you give me such an example?
03:47:17Lloreansaratoga: No, because I don't know bands in many non-English languages, but I've spoken enough languages to know that articles in one aren't in another
03:47:59LloreanBut why write a method that arbitrarily restricts what can or can't be done, and requires comparison of every artist with a list of strings?
03:48:12saratogaLlorean: are there really languages that use one another's articles?
03:48:13safetydanalienbiker99, yes. But the sort tags one lets you sort some tracks with the "the" and others without. So it handles the case of "The The" without issue.
03:48:17LloreanMake a plugin that does this, and adds the TSOP tags to your files for you.
03:48:34Lloreansaratoga: There are languages that have words that *aren't* articles that match the spelling of articles in other languages
03:48:45saratogaI didn't realize that
03:48:59saratogahow does one deal with that using the TSOP method?
03:49:20LloreanThe TSOP method lets you pick whether the article is stripped or not on a band by band basis.
03:49:29LloreanIt's not automatically based off a list.
03:49:36safetydansaratoga, for instance I believe German have a form of the which is Die (as in Die LongGermanWord). So... how do you want to sort that in English with or without the Die?
03:49:57LloreanYou *can* base it off a list though
03:50:05LloreanHave a plugin scan all your artists, and write the TSOP tag without articles.
03:50:07saratogaLlorean: so this solution involves setting sort order by hand?
03:50:16LloreanExactly the same results as the list method, then you can fix the few exceptions
03:50:26Lloreansaratoga: It involves properly tagging your files by hand.
03:50:32Lloreansaratoga: Or by script
03:50:54LloreanInstead of having Rockbox arbitrarily ignore a list of articles, have your script use the list of articles for adding the tags.
03:51:18safetydansaratoga, yes and no. All the solution involves is Rockbox respecting the TSOP/TSOT/TSOA tags when sorting files for display in tagcache. How you populate those tags is up to you. It could be by hand or with an automatic program that just copies the album name (for example) to the TSOA tag without the "the"
03:52:37saratogaI still think there should be another way to accomplish that, editing tags in order to control rockbox sorting seems a little excessive to me
03:52:56saratoganot to mention I will probably be in for a lot of hurt figuring out how to sync ID3v2 tags and APEv2 tags
03:53:02saratogamerely to correct sort order
03:53:07LloreanThe database can't even read your ApeV2 tags
03:53:13saratogaI'm aware of that
03:53:14safetydansaratoga, I believe Foobar can deal with that.
03:53:50saratogapresently it reads my ID3v1 tags, however, the sorting method will require me to remove the APE tags and replace them with ID3v2
03:54:05safetydanor even good ol' mp3tag
03:54:06Lloreansaratoga: *or* you can leave your files sorted as they are now.
03:54:30saratogayes I'm aware of that
03:54:41LloreanI don't see why "I don't want to fix my tags" is an excuse to use a bad method.
03:54:47Lloreanerr, not to use
03:54:53Lloreaner, to use.
03:54:57*Llorean can't get that straight suddenly
03:55:06saratogaI don't consider APEv2 broken
03:55:17LloreanI didn't say APEv2 was broken
03:55:22LloreanI said that using a list of articles is a bad method
03:55:39 Quit RaRe` ("Quit msgs should be longer.")
03:55:39alienbiker99lists can get very large
03:55:43LloreanYou need tags to sort, one way or another.
03:55:46saratogaand I'm saying that forcing me to switch tag formats for the sake of sorting is a worse method
03:56:02LloreanNo, it's not
03:56:05LloreanYOU can switch
03:56:18LloreanOther people can't suddenly be expected to delete half their music so there library is in one language
03:56:53LloreanYou would be choosing to eliminate their ability to use the new method entirely over your preference of tag format.
03:56:57saratogaI don't see why the two methods are being proposed as mutually exclusive
03:57:04LloreanIt's a case of "won't use" vs "can't use"
03:57:20Lloreansaratoga: Because why should there be two solutions to one problem taking up binary space?
03:57:36saratogabut they're evidently not one problem
03:57:40LloreanEspecially if one solution is *clearly* a hack
03:57:50LloreanThe *one* problem is "People want to ignore articles in their sort"
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03:58:56saratogaboth methods are hacks
03:59:08Lloreansaratoga: How is using STANDARD tags a hack?
03:59:20saratogathere is no tag standard for MP3
03:59:31Lloreansaratoga: Yes, but there is for most other formats
03:59:36LloreanAnd these tags exist in those
03:59:40saratogaits only a "standard" because we've agreed to use it
03:59:43LloreanThey also exist in ID3v2.4
03:59:52Lloreansaratoga: Stop being MP3 centric, then.
04:00:06LloreanThese tags are standard: They exist in many tagging specs.
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04:00:15LloreanI wouldn't be surprised if they exist in ApeV2 as well, though I haven't checked.
04:00:17saratogabut not all
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04:00:48saratogamy point is that you cannot seriously claim a word list is a hack while claiming the method with MP3 is not
04:01:01LloreanYes, I can.
04:01:12saratogaat best sorting tags are a standard for vorbis and the formats with actual standards
04:01:28LloreanSo, it's not a hack for those formats.
04:01:34LloreanAnd it's not a hack for the tag formats Rockbox supports
04:01:35*Llorean gasps
04:01:40LloreanWait, that means it's not a hack, for Rockbox.
04:02:01aaronwso...Im supposed to ask someone here for wiki write privileges
04:02:02LloreanSeriously, what is the real disadvantage to this method other than "it makes the user tag their files?"
04:02:05saratogayou really thinking sticking a sort list inside of a corrupted MPEG frame is "standard"?
04:02:17safetydanapev2 does have them.
04:02:33LloreanName a practical disadvantage, a *real* one, not "I don't want to be bothered with retagging my files"
04:02:38saratogabut we don't support APEv2 ...
04:03:24safetydansaratoga, not saying we do, just saying that all the major metadata formats have some form of sort tags
04:04:34saratogaso effectively, the argument comes down to one hack is prefered over another because we are too concerned about binary size to allocate a buffer of strings, and add a strcmp to the database?
04:05:07Lloreansaratoga: No, you're trivializing it.
04:05:48Lloreansaratoga: I've named several disadvantages to the string list. It's unusable for some people, not by choice but by the fact that multiple languages exist simultaneously
04:06:04LloreanName some practical disadvantages of the sort tags that go beyond "Users don't like retagging their files"
04:06:21saratogaand I've pointed out that the methods are not mutually exclusive, unless we're too concerned about binary size to spare a few lines of c and a string buffer
04:07:04Lloreansaratoga: Explain to me why a problem that's already solved should have more binary size devoted to it?
04:07:16LloreanEspecially when the second solution is only a partial solution, to boot?
04:07:27safetydansaratoga, they're not mutually exclusive no. But I feel the "fixed list of things to ignore" method is far more of a hack than supporting sort tags. It has too many funny cases where it just doesn't work.
04:07:33LloreanWhen it decreases my buffer space on the Recorder.
04:09:15saratogaits solved, but in a manner that is unsatisfactory because it forces editing of tags simply to save a trivial amount of memory
04:09:25Lloreansaratoga: Trivial adds up
04:09:41LloreanWhy is your trivial more important than the trivial amount to show volume as a percent?
04:10:05saratogayou've already accepted a database, clearly theres an acceptable trade off in binary size verses functionalilty
04:10:38Lloreansaratoga: A database allows things that *could not* be done before.
04:10:47LloreanSearching for songs based on tag content, specifically
04:10:56saratogaI have two real objections: we should be allowing sensible database behavior using only ID3v1 tags
04:11:18saratogaand we should never encourage or require people to edit tags for such trivial reasons
04:11:19aaronwhas anyone here worked on hacking the ZVM?
04:11:24LloreanThe database does behave sensibly with only ID3v1.
04:11:51LloreanI think "sorting by the string" is sensible enough behaviour.
04:11:52saratogaI don't consider c sort order sensible for a human readible device
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04:12:08LloreanThat's a matter of opinion though
04:12:15LloreanJust as my thinking it is is.
04:12:23safetydansaratoga, that's a different issue. Localised collation support is huge (in effort and size) if you want to do it right.
04:12:32LloreanThere are tags we support already that aren't in ID3v1, I believe
04:13:00LloreanAnd if their files were completely tagged already, they wouldn't *have* to retag their files
04:13:08LloreanSo saying "they shouldn't have to edit their files" is a fallacious argument
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04:13:18saratoga"completely tagged" is meaningless
04:13:22LloreanThe sort order tags exist specifically for this case.
04:13:28saratogaA completely tagging ID3v2 tag is probably several MBs
04:13:53LloreanYes, but if they want a song placed in a position in a sort other than the one the title string fits in, they should edit the title sort tag.
04:13:56LloreanThat's why they exist.
04:14:30saratogaI don't find "it exists in ID3v2.4" a very convincing justification for something
04:14:41LloreanAgain, you're ignoring the other tagging formats.
04:14:44LloreanPlease, stop doing that.
04:15:15safetydanIs "it exists in APEv2" a convincing argument?
04:15:18LloreanSaying "It doesn't work in the oldest format you support" is somewhat silly, especially if there's a case where it does.
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04:15:51saratogathough, since APEv2 is somewhat slimmer, its less ridiculous
04:15:51SoapSorting by a secondary tag solves _so_ many issues.
04:16:10SoapI can sort "Zos Kia" by Coil (they changed their name) if I like
04:16:31Soapit allows me to sort all the variations of "A Silver Mt. Zion" together.
04:17:02Soapit allows people to put "Cream" under Eric Clapton in the database if they so choose.
04:17:14saratogaI never disputed that it works
04:17:27LloreanSoap: His argument is for adding a redundant option to also use the list, so that he doesn't have to retag his files.
04:17:30saratogai'm simply saying its not a universal solution
04:18:03saratogaLlorean: thats a perfectly reasonible position given that I've been using APEv2 and ID3v1
04:18:08Lloreansaratoga: You're saying YOU will choose not to use this solution because of your refusal to use a specific tagging format.
04:18:42LloreanYour option takes MY buffer away because YOU refuse to use a tagging format.
04:18:54saratogahow much of your buffer space?
04:19:04LloreanIt doesn't add *any* functionality that can't be gained by simply using the tagging formats Rockbox chooses to support as is.
04:19:15Lloreansaratoga: A non-zero amount.
04:19:36Lloreansaratoga: Trivial features do add up, as I said. Replication of functionality should be avoided where possible.
04:19:46LloreanIf we coded three or four ways to do everything, we'd have a much larger binary already
04:19:54saratogayour position is absurb because it assumes that a byte of buffer space has infinite value
04:20:19LloreanIt assumes a byte of buffer space has any value, and a replicated feature has zero value.
04:20:27LloreanSince the feature already exists.
04:21:44LloreanI just don't see "I choose not to use your implementation" as good cause for a second method to waste space.
04:22:06saratogazero value to you perhaps
04:22:15SoapI, personally, don't dislike the idea of article removal, but think the sort-tag method is beautiful and elegant and kills (at least) two birds with one stone.
04:22:52LloreanSoap: I don't dislike the idea, I just like it less than the sort tag, and think that we *must* only implement one. We can't remove it later if binary size gets worse, so we should keep it out now.
04:22:59LloreanThe binary size tracking table exists for a reason
04:23:13saratogawe have plenty of memory on nearly all targets though
04:23:22saratogawhy not just #if it out on old targets
04:23:38LloreanI don't see "plenty of memory" as a license to waste it.
04:23:50saratogaits not waste if most people will use it
04:24:10scorchebecause they run Rockbox...not Rockbox without a lot of features...we want Rockbox to be as similar as possible between targets
04:24:13LloreanAnd if it weren't there, most people would use the other method.
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04:24:20LloreanSo long as a script existed to create the tags for 'em
04:24:46saratogaheh, why build the database on the device? we could save more memory if we built it on the PC. . .
04:25:09Lloreansaratoga: Actually, it should be a plugin IMHO
04:25:33LloreanBut being able to use the database is considered core functionality.
04:25:45saratogadoes the database currently monitor the disk for updates?
04:25:59saratogaotherwise, I'd say a plugin to build it would be reasonible
04:26:10LloreanYeah, it does.
04:26:53saratogarather then update tags, could we simply have a plugin that edited the database's sort order within memory or the disk ?
04:27:24saratogaor do the two have to remain completely syncrhonized?
04:27:38saratogathat would really seem ideal, move all this stuff into a database setting plugin to get it out of the core
04:28:21saratogathough, like the tag method, this is somewhat less automatic then most people are probably expecting to see
04:28:30saratogaat least anyone whos used an ipod
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04:30:17safetydanThe iPod has iTunes acting as an outboard database manipulation tool. The iPod itself doesn't really do anything with the iTunes database but read it.
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04:38:02saratogasafetydan: I know. I pitched in ages ago for a bit when the format was reverse engineered
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06:11:00sitwonI'm having problems with the database on my Sansa e280. It seems that whenever I try to initialize the DB it misses tracks that the file browser shows are in fact on my device.
06:11:53Soapfirst though...if file browser sees them and database does not...are they properly tagged?
06:12:07sitwonit's not a tag issue because I've retagged several albums and found no difference. Also, it seems to affect tracks at random. after on initialization a track will dissappear, and then after another it will reappear but a different track will disappear
06:12:51sitwonthe file browser shows they're there and plays them fine and brings up all the proper tag information, I just can't get the DB to consistently add ALL my tracks
06:13:13sitwonit seems I always end up with a few albums that are missing a few tracks that were previously discovered normally
06:19:57sitwonalso, if I turn on "Load to RAM" then each time I restart my whole DB disappears and has to be reinitialized
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06:27:50sitwonA good example is my Weezer music. in the last 15 minutes I've initialized the DB about 10 times and restarted my sansa about 4 times. Sometimes the database shows 4 all four albums, sometimes only three, and most of the tracks in the Blue Album do the dissapearing/reappearing thing. I haven't found any pattern yet. This is very frustrating.
06:28:16sitwonA good example is my Weezer music. in the last 15 minutes I've initialized the DB about 10 times and restarted my sansa about 4 times. Sometimes the database shows 4 all four albums, sometimes only three, and most of the tracks in the Blue Album do the dissapearing/reappearing thing. I haven't found any pattern yet. This is very frustrating.
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07:04:53sitwonwhatever Dir Cache does... it seems to affect which tracks appear and which don't. if it's on, I lose some of my Weezer music, if it's off, I lose some track from Train and Stellastar
07:06:07safetydansitwon, dircache caches the directory structure and filenames in memory to save hard drive spinups. I don't think there are any open bugs against it at the moment. How old is the build you're using?
07:06:31sitwonI downloaded it this morning
07:07:38sitwonVer. r13620-070611
07:08:03sitwonthat's the version number it reports
07:10:30safetydanJust speculating here, but it may be that dircache is being affected by some filesystem corruption. Have you tried a chkdsk on your Sansa?
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07:12:45sitwonyea, I thought that too so I plugged it into my Windows laptop and ran Diskeeper and then Scandisk on it
07:12:59sitwonbut that didn't fix the problem
07:14:16safetydansitwon, unfortunately I can't really help much as I don't know tagcache/dircache very well. If you can hang around until the European devs wakeup you can try and get a hold of Slasheri who's the main tagcache guy.
07:14:26safetydanEither that, or raise a bug through Flyspray.
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07:49:53MX-Gonly one question
07:50:00MX-Gwell 2 questions
07:50:22MX-Gwhat the recording option can do?
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07:56:25safetydanMX-G, record obviously. Perhaps a read of the manual might clear things up for you?
07:56:39MX-Git's in english -_-
07:57:01MX-Gthere are a lot of thing that i cant understand correctly
07:57:21scorchewell, it is the same english we speak in here
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07:58:08MX-Gwhat manual?
07:58:13combrainshi all - a question about the monkey's audio codec...
07:58:16MX-Gthat one on the title?
07:58:34combrainshow useable and how stable is it at the moment?
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07:59:47austriancoderjhMikeS: ping
08:00:04safetydancombrains, I believe it's usable on the GigaBeat, but other targets not so much.
08:01:25combrainssweetbix - up to what compression level? If I have interpreted the comment on the commits correctly - I understand it to be about 3? Or will I be able to go higher on a gigabeat?
08:03:21markuncombrains: that's right
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08:03:55combrainsmarkun: which part? I can go higher or I can only go up to 3?
08:04:03scorche3 is realtime on the gigabeat according to the commits....
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08:05:07markuncombrains: linuxstb told me that 4 was probably doable, but it doesn't look good for the levels above that
08:05:19combrainsexcellent - im considering re-encoding my cd's coz it sounds like a god codec
08:05:27combrainsbetter than FLAC even
08:05:36scorchewell, FLAC is lossless..
08:05:47scorcheand has much wider support
08:05:47combrainsbut is pretty big
08:06:31krazykitape is the same size as flac, though, isn't it? just about?
08:06:48scorchewell, they are both lossless, but i dont knwo the comparison
08:07:03MX-Gi can't be able to record until i get that apple's microphone
08:07:11krazykitall the lossless codecs are pretty close to each other, afaik.
08:07:51scorchewell, FLAC is extremely efficient on Rockbox as well...much more so than monkeys
08:07:52combrainsplus, if the monkey's audio is to be believed, I could reverse the compression and give someone else the original wave file to do as they pleased
08:07:56krazykitcombrains, but it's a good idea to rip to lossless anyway. you can transcode to any lossy format at any compression level you like without having to rerip everything. you just run a program and let it go.
08:08:09combrainskrazykit, ture that
08:08:12krazykitcombrains, such is the definition of lossless. you can do that with all of them
08:08:15scorchecombrains: that is the definition of lossless, yes
08:08:16safetydancombrains, which is the same as FLAC or ALAC
08:08:25combrainsah ic
08:08:39scorchehonestly, if you are going lossless, you are much better off ripping to flac
08:09:04combrainsscorche, really?
08:09:08krazykitflac is the most widely supported format, really
08:09:21combrainsallreghty then
08:09:29combrains*allrighty then
08:09:30scorcheflac is much more efficient and more widely used, as i mentioned earlier
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08:11:40combrainsthe only thing that has put me off lossless in the past was the size, but I have just bought a new external HDD for my lappy so I think its a go-er now
08:11:49combrainscheers guys
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08:15:45austriancodershould audiohw_init() return 0 on success -1 on failure, or simply asume a void function?
08:19:05sitwonI submitted to Flyspray, hopefully someone will look into it and fix it.
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08:19:34JdGordonaustriancoder: 0 is success is the usual method... unless there isnt really any chance of it faiing?
08:20:22austriancoderI dont know if audiocodec init cna fail? It can fail ony caused by programming errors
08:20:49austriancoderor the hardware is dead... at the moment the callers of audiohw_init() dont check the return value
08:21:21JdGordons just leave it as void
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08:22:53austriancoderfine :)
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08:24:12bdgrauei have an ipod 80GB and successful installed rockbox, thx for that good piece of software, i have installed fonts, but i miss some chinese fonts in there, is there anything i have to do, to read chinese words in rockbox?
08:24:29scorchebdgraue: you will want to choose a unicode fontr
08:24:56bdgrauescorche: ok, i'll try that
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08:29:31bdgrauescorche: thank a lot, it works, damn this is really fine work, you all are great
08:37:59markunbdgraue: a few more free fonts which support chinese would be great
08:38:08markunlet us know if you find any
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08:42:30bdgrauemarkun: i myself are not chinese and i can't read chinese, my wife is, but if i find something i will tell you
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08:46:37bdgrauemarkun: does something like help you?
08:48:44markunbdgraue: thanks
08:49:26markunone problem is that the fonts don't always turn out very readable when you convert them to smaller bitmap fonts (to be used by rockbox)
08:51:39bdgrauemarkun: i don't know how to confert fonts for rockbox, can you give me a link, where i can read how to do that, and i will try to convert some fonts and if they readable...
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08:56:08scorchemarkun: to settle something is it markoon or markuhn?
08:56:20*amiconn doesn't believe that this 'the' issue popped up a second time
08:57:05amiconnImho that's a neglectably small issue compared to the lack of proper collation
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09:03:13GodEater_amiconn: feel free to make your point of view heard in the thread then :)
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09:11:17markunscorche: it sounds the same to me
09:11:36midkayit's MARKUHN. trust me on this.
09:12:03markunwith the stress on the long 'oo' sounds
09:12:12peturmarkun: did you get my PM yesterday evening?
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09:12:18markunpetur: yes
09:12:24midkaymarkun: i know your nick better than you do. it's markuhn. trust me! :)
09:12:26markunlet's hope it was free then :)
09:12:35markunmidkay: ah, alright :)
09:12:40scorchemarkuhn = the u sounds like the u in up
09:12:42midkayHA! VICTORY!
09:12:57markun(dutch version of your nick)
09:13:21scorchei will take a victory over this with markoon then =)
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09:14:08*markun feels defeated..
09:14:20scorcheno...a victory over midkay =)
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09:19:36amiconnGodEater: I was referring to the discussion here; didn't check the forum
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09:30:50SeanInglisHi, could I get write access to the Twiki? I can feel a minor addition coming on.
09:32:07SeanInglisWeb interface is abit, umm, variable from work, so apologies if I double post.
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09:33:26B4gderSeanInglis: you using this name in the wiki?
09:34:56SeanInglisOh, yes, should have said rather than relying on other users' psychic powers.
09:35:19B4gderyeah the psychic department are a bit slow at this hour of the day ;-)
09:35:25B4gderlazy bastards
09:35:54B4gderSeanInglis: write permission granted!
09:36:04SeanInglisKnew you'd say that. Cheers!
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09:48:32bdgraueare there progress in mpegplayer-plugin to make it work faster on ipod? 0fps is not really good ;)
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09:49:55linuxstbbdgraue: Which ipod do you have?
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09:53:08linuxstbAs far as I know, no-one is working on optimising mpegplayer, and no-one is working on reverse-engineering the ipod video's video decoding chip.
09:53:37bdgrauelinuxstb: thx for the information
09:53:45markunbdgraue: maybe something for you?
09:54:14bdgrauemarkun: sry, i didn't understand the question
09:54:56markunbdgraue: maybe working on optimizing mpegplayer or reverse-engineering the ipod video's video decoding chip is something for you?
09:55:23bdgrauemarkun: i have no idea how to do that, but i would if i could
09:56:42markunhopefully someone else will look into it then
09:57:27bdgrauemarkun: what do i have to know , that i can do something like that?
09:57:45*linuxstb is confused - his ARM optimisation for Monkey's Audio is giving about 11% speedup on the ipod, but less than 1% on the Gigabeat...
09:58:03bdgraueif someone push me the right way, who knows, sometimes...
09:59:27markunbdgraue: C programming and maybe ARM assembly for mpegplayer optimizing
09:59:59markunand I don't really know what you could do to reverse-engineer the broadcom chip
10:01:23lazkacan anyone tell me where i can get the sources for arm-elf-gcc for linux?
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10:01:43lazka(or a debian package)
10:02:07JackalSMPcan i ask how do i remove rockbox from my ipod video ?
10:02:25scorchelazka: run
10:04:04lazkascorche: nice, thx
10:05:11JdGordonaustriancoder: love the commit message...
10:05:31austriancoderJdGordon: ;)
10:07:37scorcheheh...i was laughing about that too
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10:08:11JdGordonas if the others need more reasons to get annoyed at me... :D
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10:10:33JdGordonpixelma: amiconn: back on the recording directory patch... If you dont want a spin up when the rec screen is entered, and you want it to not even try recording if it cant write to the dir, wuold it be best if on boot it tries reading the disk and then splashes a big "cant write" splash when the rec screen is entered?
10:11:43peturthat sounds like a hack - what if the dir got created by the user? what about automatic rec dir creation?
10:11:59pixelmaalso: what about removeable cards?
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10:12:54peturcan't we start recording and then force a flush to disk to detect diskwrite?
10:13:43peturhmmm you'd still have spinup noise when recording internal mic
10:14:12peturso only do it ir recdir is on removable media?
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10:34:09JdGordonpetur: yeah, its a big hack.. but really, I cant see any other way to make everyone happy
10:36:26JdGordonpixelma: as for removable cards, the only devices with them dont have a noisy hard disk, so a spin up wouldnt effct the recording ayway
10:36:51pixelmabtwyou could already get in a situation where a diskwrite is not possible when the "disk is full"
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10:37:22JdGordonyeah, but you dont realise untill the buffer tries to flush.
10:37:58lazka - icon is missing..
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10:42:07pixelmaJdGordon: that's assuming there never will be HD devices with removeable memory but if maybe one day it will be possible to record to an external usb device on H300 or even X5?
10:42:25JdGordonwell, yeah
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10:43:12*petur is very much away
10:43:41JdGordonhmm.. we could actually use my above idea with remoable cards also...
10:44:54safetydanamiconn: do you think Rockbox could support proper locale sensitive collation? It seems like a big chunk of code.
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10:46:35JdGordonpixelma: I guess the bes way would be another setting so the user can choose if they want to check the rec folder before starting or not?
10:47:02JdGordonif hat is set to off then the current behaviour happens if the folder isnt writable (you get the disk full error)
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10:49:14JdGordonanyone... yes/no/?
10:50:43pixelmasafetydan: you mean strip "die" if I chose german as language file and not if I have it on "english"? I would find that quite stupid because most of my music is in english but I got some in other languages as well - I also like to switch between 3 lang-files (just for the fun of it)
10:51:20safetydanpixelma: no, simpler than that. Which comes first Å or A?
10:51:54safetydanbasically at the moment Rockbox sorts strings in "asciibetical" order so accented characters come last. Which for some (probably most) languages isn't correct.
10:52:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:53:48pixelmasafetydan: oh sorry - but I guess it's quite complicated as that can be different through the languages
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10:56:08pixelmaJdGordon: couldn't it try to write to the user set directory first and when that fails write to its own created /recording directory - or would that take too long?
10:56:09JdGordonI wonder if we can load the sort order like a .fnt or .kbd ?
10:56:41JdGordonpixelma: I thought you didnt want that because if you try writing to he mmc and it fails it wll write to internal which wont have enouhg space....
10:56:55bluebrotherwhy not add a sorting order hint to the lang files?
10:57:56B4gderthat's a cool idea
10:58:10pixelmaJdGordon: hmm.. didn't remember. Excuse: wasn't me who spoke up against that ;)
10:58:55JdGordonoh ok, thought that was you :)
10:59:32JdGordonI think adding the option is the best non-hack option
11:00:44JdGordonspeaking of the lang files... hows the cleanup patch coming?
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11:09:14cropIn the sound settings, there is the channel options 'stereo' and 'custom.' And there is also an option for stereo width. Wouldn't it be more intuitive to just have 'stereo' for channel mode and apply the stereo width always and not only for 'custom' (which can be removed then)?
11:10:26markunshould swedish tracks be ordered with the german rules if you select the german lang file?
11:10:37amiconnJdGordon: A spinup on entering the recording screen is okay, that's how it works now anyway. What I meant was that there shouldn't be a spinup when starting the recording
11:11:06JdGordonoh, OK, then the patch on the tracker is ready to go?
11:11:18pixelmaJdGordon: haven't tested yet...
11:11:30JdGordongo test :)
11:12:01JdGordonamiconn: can one of the fat filename patches get commited so it doesnt start creating <MMC> flders?
11:12:11amiconnsafetydan: I know that locale sensitive collation would be a huge blob of code. But not having that makes tiny things like leaving out articles for sorting an irrelevant problem, not worth any additional code
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11:13:12amiconnJdGordon: A fat filename patch should be committed first, but I didn't get around checking them out yet
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11:13:57JdGordonthey both are exactly the same, xcept one uses strchr and one loops through the filename manually..
11:14:12JdGordonother than that they both just move code around... they are safe
11:19:56JdGordonis it posible t grab the rockbox sources without the manual folder?
11:23:12amiconnSure. Just check out the dirs you want instead of the whole trunk
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11:23:36JdGordontrunk just finished dling :p
11:23:40*JdGordon knows for next time
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11:36:56pixelmabluebrother: do you know anything about the error message that occurs now at the end of building a pdf manual (even though building successfull)?
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11:41:01lazkawhat's the command for searching text in the source folder?
11:41:04JdGordonif you do snprintf(....,"%s%s%s",a,b,c); and any of them are "" will it still do a correct copy? i.e if a is "" you will still get a string with b and c?
11:41:18JdGordonlazka: grep -nr "stuff t find"
11:41:28lazkaJdGordon: thank you
11:46:22GodEater_JdGordon: do you mean is string a is null ?
11:46:43JdGordonIm pretty sure you would get the expected string.. but not 100%
11:46:45GodEater_I'm pretty sure you'd still end up with b and c
11:46:49GodEater_hehe - ditto :)
11:48:04GodEater_one thing though, doesn't snprintf also take a numeric argument ?
11:48:22JdGordonthats whats the .... was for
11:48:25lazkaJdGordon: only grep? it does nothing here.. like an infinite loop :/
11:48:27GodEater_ah ok sorry
11:49:02GodEater_lazka, it might take a while, the source tree is quite big
11:49:16GodEater_I think you might also need to specify a trailing "." to it as well
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11:49:57GodEater_lazka, yeah, you need to do "grep -nr "stuff you're looking for" ."
11:50:11lazkaGodEater: ah, i see, thx
11:50:24GodEater_otherwise I think grep also searchs the parent directories, which might take a LOOOOONG time
11:52:21JdGordonalso, excluding the .svn folder would be good....
11:52:25cropHm... No comments on stereo width setting?
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12:13:04markuncrop: what kind of comments?
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12:25:43bluebrotherpixelma: I assume that error is related to dash. Will look into it, I also had a good idea how to solve the dash issue for building (which also makes it possible using different names for the manuals, wanted to do this quite a while).
12:25:59bluebrothergtg now, I hope to get it done in the next days.
12:26:12pixelmawhy dash? I'm on cygwin...
12:26:34pixelmahave to go soon tooo
12:28:39cropmarkun: see my post a little bit earlier about channel setting and stereo width. We could eliminate one setting IMHO
12:32:39cropmarkun: 11:09 in the log
12:32:44markuncrop: yes, I found it
12:32:49markunand agree with it
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12:33:54cropOk, so my logic is not twisted! :-)
12:34:07markunamiconn: what do you think about it? (begin the only person I know who uses stereo width)
12:35:32amiconnmarkun, crop: I'm not sure whether I would like that. For one, switching between stereo, mono and custom is faster than adjusting stereo width all the time. Of course this is solvable by using .cfg files, as I do anyway
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12:37:38amiconnApart from that there is no further problem on hwcodec as the stereo matrix is applied in the mas (and is applied anyway), but on swcodec 'custom' and 100% stereo width might use slightly more cpu than plain 'stereo'
12:41:24amiconnAnd removing 'stereo' and 'mono' won't save much, I think
12:42:13amiconnThe other choices (mono left, mono right, karaoke, and of course custom) need to stay as they aren't replaceable by 'stereo width'
12:43:43linuxstb_crop: Maybe the problem is just the naming of the options - I agree that it's not obvious that "custom" means the stereo width setting. IMO, it's similar to the EQ, where you can turn the EQ on and off separately to configuring it, which as amiconn said, seems useful.
12:45:44cropamiconn: yes, mono left and right should stay. And I'd say mono as well. But then, stereo should also be retained. Stereo and mono are just two special cases of stereo width (from the user's perspective, they may use different code). So we could leave everything as it is now. I just remembered how I wandered when I changed the stereo width and nothing happened
12:48:01croplinuxstb_: would 'wide stereo' be a better name?
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12:51:13amiconncrop: 'wide stereo' would be incorrect, as stereo width can also be <100%
12:52:20cropamiconn: it's still wide, its width is just < 100% Everything that has a width is wide :-)))
12:52:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:52:45cropCustom width stereo?
12:53:28amiconn-> shortened to 'custom' ...
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12:54:26safetydanAnyone familiar with the id3 parser code?
12:55:01cropamiconn: Just "custom" doesn't provide enough information since there are also options for mono. So it isn't clear that we have custom *stereo*
12:56:12preglowyeah, that particular naming has always somewhat annoyed me
12:57:52amiconncrop: it's also mono if width is set to 0%
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13:00:15cropamiconn: yes, but 'mono' sounds (as in 'means') something different to the user than 'stereo'. Both can be described with the 'width' parameter but these two words have been around for so long that they are seen as two 'fundamental' modes
13:00:50linuxstb_Does "Channel Width" make any sense? At least it's then more obvious that the "Channel Configuration" and "Channel Width" settings work together as a pair.
13:02:50cropDon't we already have 'channel width' setting? But it's only used when 'custom' is set as the channel mode
13:03:00preglowthat's stereo width, not channel width
13:03:08preglowchannel width as an expression doesn't really make sense
13:03:34preglowit implies you change the width within one channel, and that's not possible
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13:06:06linuxstb_OK. Next suggestion - change "Custom" to "Stereo Width" in the Channel Configuration setting.
13:07:49preglowsounds better
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13:10:33KiOuiHi Guys : Does knyone know how wheels are handled into Rockbox's core ?
13:11:11KiOuiPurpose: Patching the iPod target to make the iPod wheel acts more as the original firmware
13:11:15croplinuxstb_: but 'stereo width' means that you're about to set a width (the stereo one in this case), not the channel mode
13:11:46linuxstb_KiOui: The button driver sends BUTTON_SCROLL_FWD and BUTTON_SCROLL_BACK events to the code in apps/, which then deals with them...
13:11:46safetydanKiOui, the source is your best bet.
13:12:15linuxstb_crop: But "custom" means "use the Stereo Width setting".
13:12:17cropOr do you mean that when you change that setting (e.g. set the width to be 60%) you automatically change to 'custom width'?
13:12:39linuxstb_crop: I mean to keep everything as it is today, but simply rename "Custom" to say "Stereo Width"
13:13:12cropAnd what's the name of the setting for the actual width?
13:13:25linuxstb_Still the same - "Stereo Width"
13:13:49cropBut these are two different settings. Or do I miss something?
13:14:39linuxstb_One setting is "Channel Configuration", with an option called "Stereo Width". The other setting is called "Stereo Width", with the % values as options.
13:15:04crop'Custom' means 'I want to set a stereo width other than 100% (pure stereo) and other than 0% (pure mono)'. And the desired width is set under 'Stereo width'
13:15:05KiOuilinuxstb_: thanks
13:15:14linuxstb_crop: Exactly.
13:15:53croplinuxstb_: but then having two settings with exactly the same name but different meaning is confusing IMHO
13:16:17linuxstb_crop: It isn't two settings with the same name - see my previous comment.
13:17:38croplinuxstb_: ah, the *option* called 'stereo width'. Now I see. But I'd call it 'custom stereo width'. It suggests that you can customize something.
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13:25:20crop linuxstb_: or 'See "stereo width"' :-)
13:28:32amiconnCould also be 'variable width', but in fact I prefer short option names like 'custom'
13:29:26KiOuiIs there any get_tick_count() or something in Rockbox's core that can returns a milli-second time since rockbox started ?
13:29:49KiOuiI plan to use it to do something like a wheel time-based acceleration
13:30:17B4gdercurrent_tick is the number of ticks since boot
13:31:27cropamiconn: ok, you are the master! And, in fact, it's clear once you've figured it out. But it was not clear for me the first time I used it.
13:32:52preglowamiconn: sure, short names are good, but in this case it doesn't really explain what you just selected
13:33:04preglowand it sure as hell doesn't imply that the stereo width option in the menu is now active
13:33:07linuxstbamiconn: I agree short options are nice, but shouldn't the priority be to make them understandable? I don't think it's obvious that "custom" in the "channel configuration" setting refers to the Stereo Width setting. (what preglow just said...)
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13:33:33safetydan <- weirdly applying that patch fixes my parsing issues with id3v2.4 files.
13:33:54*linuxstb wonders how to weirdly apply a patch
13:34:14KiOuiB4gder: Is current_tick exported by default anywhere in the sourcecode?
13:34:18*safetydan curses a lack of a comma leading to unintended interpretations
13:34:32GodEater_linuxstb: whilst standing on your head with a finger in your ear weird enough ?
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13:34:59linuxstbGodEater_: I would call that dangerously applying a patch
13:35:01B4gderKiOui: kernel.h
13:35:19KiOuiB4gder: Thanks
13:35:32safetydanI'm not comfortable committing that change as it's pretty fundamental code. That, and no one else seems to have noticed problems parsing id3v2.4 tags.
13:35:36GodEater_linuxstb: touche
13:37:41linuxstbsafetydan: So is totframelen calculated wrongly in your files?
13:39:33safetydanlinuxstb: no I think it's correct, it just seems that seek isn't needed any more
13:40:08safetydanI've tested parsing with a variety of id3v2 tagged files and they all still seem to work.
13:41:21linuxstbsafetydan: I don't use id3 tags, so can't help. But you could always revert a commit if it caused problems.
13:41:58safetydanlinuxstb: true, but it's far too late in the evening for me to be doing that. I'll be asleep before the build completes :)
13:42:17B4gdersafetydan: I would say it indicates a problem in the framelen code for 2.4 or a weird tag in your song...
13:42:38B4gderI see that the code is specially crafted for 2.4
13:42:53B4gderline 751
13:42:54safetydanB4gder: this was across multiple files from different tagging programs so I think it's a general 2.4 problem.
13:45:18B4gderand line 718 too
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13:51:33safetydansomething somewhere in that code is off by 4 bytes when counting where to seek to the next frame
13:51:38safetydanbut I'll have to pick this up tomorrow
13:51:40safetydannight all
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13:52:42austriancoderpetur: ping
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13:56:44austriancoderpetur: I have looked at the wasabi stack and i can not find any info that this can can be also used as device stack
13:58:00peturstrange... did you try to follow where the functions in the DC directory are leading to?
13:58:18peturI'll have a look myself tonight
13:59:07austriancoderpetur: I have not found any device descriptor for one of the offerd classes
13:59:40austriancoderpetur: I have a good idea how the device stack (part) will look like :)
14:01:24 Quit The-Compiler (Remote closed the connection)
14:01:50 Join lymeca_ [0] (n=lymeca@unaffiliated/lymeca)
14:01:53austriancoderthe driver need only to offer functions to work with endpoints... so called gadged drivers like midi use the driver.
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14:02:19austriancoderwill begin to define datatypes and the ep interface
14:02:57peturendpoints and descriptors is what it's all about
14:03:10austriancoderits inspired by the linux usb gadget source
14:03:14austriancoderand usb requests
14:05:17*KiOui thinks ... Seems to be that we cannot handle wheel acceleration directly into target/arm/ipod/button-clickwheel.c due to slow interrupts delivering
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14:06:09dionoeaisn't there already some acceleration code / patch in the tracker ?
14:10:20austriancoderare structs with function pointers tolerated for RockBox?
14:10:49KiOuidionoea: Maybe, I'm looking for it but don't anow flyspray very well
14:11:22peturaustriancoder: why not?
14:11:54austriancoderpetur: as OO is not very loved by linus an co
14:12:32amiconnThere are lots of function pointers in various structs
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14:12:53XavierGramiconn: did you fiddle with yout vmware image more?
14:13:30peturaustriancoder: the plugin api is also a struct with fnpointers
14:13:30XavierGranother small gain is to type "find -name info" and then delete all these folders (except the proc ones)
14:13:39amiconnNope. But the 138MB are still including g++
14:13:42*austriancoder hmm.. okay will use structs of function pointers for device part of the stack
14:14:08amiconnI ditched /usr/share/info, /usr/share/locale and /usr/share/doc
14:14:29XavierGryeah me too, but I ditched all the info folders
14:14:36XavierGralso the localised man pages
14:15:20*petur tries to concentrate on payed work... there's just too much of it :(
14:16:32linuxstbKiOui: What's the problem with the wheel interrupts?
14:21:45KiOuilinuxstb: Actually I'm not sure at all, I just started investigating into this to make the wheel acts as in the OF
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14:23:28KiOuilinuxstb: So I looked into target/arm/ipod/button-clickwheel.c and found some delta computations, which send SCROLL_FWD or SCROLL_BACK event if this delta changed from at least 4.
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14:26:15KiOuilinuxstb: So if the minimum delta changed is smaller (< 4) there will be more SCROLL_* generated events sent to the core. So I tried decreasing this number but it seems changes are not so good: It takes always time and lots of circles to browse a long list.
14:27:38KiOuilinuxstb: But now I think I was wrong talking about interrupts
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14:28:00pixieMy ipod keeps showing an image of a folder with an exclamation mark on it..
14:28:10pixieIt booted like five minutes ago, but now it just gives that image
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14:28:23pixieYou can plug it in with cable successfully, but not boot it properly
14:29:03GodEater_pixie: what happens if you try to put it into disk mode ?
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14:29:29pixieHow do I put it in to disk mode again?
14:29:59KiOuipixie: When rebooting, press Select+Play
14:30:00GodEater_hard reset first (menu+select), then select+play as soon as the screen clear
14:31:08pixieJust waiting for it to eject.. for some reason my terminal freezes when I do it
14:31:32pixiewhich also didn't happen 5 minutes ago
14:32:07pixieThere we go
14:32:07jac0bdoes rockbox notice .m3u files?
14:32:09linuxstbKiOui: The problem is that the list display code can't keep up with very fast scrolling. So you need to make it skip updates, and also to make it move more than one line at a time when scrolling quickly.
14:32:32LinusNjac0b: yes
14:32:42pixieWhen it goes into disk mode it just says "ok to disconnect"
14:33:17KiOuilinuxstb: Okay. Do you know if something similar was done and if a patch was published?
14:33:38pixieGodEater_: ^
14:33:58GodEater_pixie: this is when it's plugged into your computer ?
14:34:06pixieit's plugged out now
14:34:10linuxstbKiOui: Some list acceleration code was committed to SVN recently - but that doesn't take account of the speed of the events, just how long they've been repeating.
14:34:13pixiejuts says "ok to disconnect"
14:34:21 Quit jac0b ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
14:34:22pixie(After I reset it plugged out)
14:34:22GodEater_well now connect it to your computer
14:34:32GodEater_pixie: and then run a disk check on it
14:34:33pixie"do not disconnect"
14:34:45pixieAwh crap, linux can't fsck this type of fat32..
14:34:57GodEater_why not ?
14:34:58KiOuilinuxstb: In which file is it?
14:35:00pixieGod only knows.
14:35:20GodEater_I'll rephrase - what happens when you try ?
14:35:24pixieI'll show you
14:36:10linuxstbKiOui: Check the changelog (e.g. the "last four weeks" link on the home page) and look for the list acceleration commits
14:36:34KiOuilinuxstb: Thanks
14:36:54pixiemango:/home/pixie# fsck.msdos /dev/sda1
14:36:54pixiedosfsck 2.11, 12 Mar 2005, FAT32, LFN
14:36:54DBUGEnqueued KICK pixie
14:36:54pixieCurrently, only 1 or 2 FATs are supported, not 123.
14:38:09GodEater_123 FATS
14:38:22GodEater_that's unusual to say the least
14:38:50GodEater_what flavour ipod is it ?
14:39:08pixieI'm contemplating formatting it
14:39:13pixiebecause I"ve been having a shitload of issues with it
14:39:35GodEater_do you have a windows machine with iTunes on it handy ?
14:39:57pixieI'm also at a linux conference, so if I'd ask thye'd all point and laugh ;)
14:40:21GodEater_which video have you got ?
14:40:24GodEater_30, 60 or 80 ?
14:40:34CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
14:40:34*linuxstb points pixie to
14:40:50*GodEater_ seconds linuxstb's pointing
14:41:11pixieDoes that create an image of everything on the ipod?
14:41:31linuxstbNo, that wipes everything on your ipod
14:41:39GodEater_esp. the last bit
14:41:51linuxstbBut it sounds like you could just reformat your ipod - no need to restore everything.
14:41:56pixielinuxstb: I can format it myself, what worries me is backup :P
14:42:03pixieI don't care about the software
14:42:04linuxstbpixie: Then back it up...
14:42:09GodEater_if you can
14:42:11pixielinuxstb: I have no diskspace, so I need to find that first
14:42:24pixielinuxstb: I'm not asking for help to format it, I said I was contemplating it :P
14:42:32linuxstbYou're at a linux conference - maybe someone will have 60GB of spare disk space...
14:42:35CaT[tm]i don't suppose there's an easy way to download all the ipod video themes at once? :)
14:42:38pixielinuxstb: Most likely
14:42:54GodEater_CaT[tm]: you could try the "DownThemAll" extension for Firefox
14:43:06lazkawhere does the playlist get intgrated into the main root menu? i can't find it :(
14:43:09GodEater_pixie: this isn't just a format either, this is restoring the iPod firmware too
14:43:12linuxstbDidn't I notice a "select all" option being added to rbutil?
14:43:30GodEater_linuxstb: no idea - a lot of them don't work via rbutil anyway
14:43:31linuxstblazka: Playlists are just files - you view them in the file browser.
14:43:32 Quit Freso ()
14:43:42GodEater_since the author's not packaged them correctly
14:44:11lazkalinuxstb: no, i mean the options and settings menu (i'm looking or the code..)
14:44:18CaT[tm]godeater: hmmm. nifty idea.
14:44:28pixieGodEater_: Can't you just remove everything and then add new firmware or something?
14:44:29CaT[tm]btw. rockbox be working niftily on my 80gb ipod
14:44:53GodEater_pixie: formatting it *does* remove everything
14:45:00pixieOne thing that annoys me with rockbox is the battery usage
14:45:07GodEater_it annoys all of us
14:45:11pixieGodEater_: Then I won't need the manual restore :p
14:45:15GodEater_which we knew how to fix it
14:45:25pixieAny idea what causes it?
14:45:31LinusNnot really
14:45:39GodEater_if we did, we'd be halfway to fixing it
14:46:09GodEater_pixie: the manual restore is for if your apple firmware is broken too
14:46:13pixieWhat also annoys me is the slow scrolling
14:46:17GodEater_it's not just fixing the music partition
14:46:21pixieGodEater_: I think its just broken file system
14:46:34pixieit's being quite fucked up
14:46:37GodEater_you're probably right
14:46:39linuxstblazka: root_menu.c includes the "playlist_options" menu, which is defined in menus/playlist_menu.c
14:46:41pixiecan I have it any fs I want btw?
14:46:52linuxstbpixie: Yes, as long as you want FAT32...
14:46:54GodEater_pixie: only FAT32 if you want Rockbox to work on it
14:47:07pixielinuxstb: That makes no sense ;P
14:47:18lazkalinuxstb: thx
14:47:23GodEater_you don't know the Henry Ford quote then pixie
14:47:32*GodEater_ got it
14:47:34pixieENlighten me
14:47:43GodEater_"You can have any colour you like, as long as it's black"
14:47:53GodEater_referring to the first mass produced car
14:48:01pixieI see.
14:49:32pixiecrap and I wanted music on my way to the laundromat aswell..
14:49:32 Quit crop ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
14:49:35pixieMaybe I should just bring my laptop
14:51:24GodEater_linuxstb (or anyone else) : do we know if the mtools package is required for formatting 30GB 5.5G models as well as for the 80GB ?
14:52:21*GodEater_ is a bit vague on what's broken with the mkfs.vfat produced filesystem
14:52:23***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:52:44linuxstbI've no idea about the 30GB. It would be nice if someone could debug the mkfs.vfat problem though.
14:53:06linuxstbor write a simple formatter that works...
14:53:28GodEater_I just wondered if it was the sector size thing that was broken
14:53:51GodEater_which would imply it wouldn't turn out a proper filesystem on the 5.5G 30GB either
14:53:59linuxstbfat32format seems nice and simple - it's Windows only, but is GPL'd, and doesn't look too hard to port to Unix-like systems.
14:55:05linuxstbI had a quick look at the mtools source, but it's a massive set of utilities, with everything sharing code. So it's not straightforward to just extract the formatting code.
14:55:45GodEater_yes, there's rather a lot in it
14:56:14linuxstb(everything is a symlink to a single mtools binary)
14:56:21GodEater_it does a lot of things I've not found other linux user space tools for
14:56:30GodEater_like FAT32 file attribute editing
14:56:46linuxstbThat could be useful to add to Rockbox - to hide directories for example.
14:57:36*linuxstb looks around for a volunteer
14:57:44GodEater_as you say though - tough to find in that mountain of source code
14:58:28*austriancoder looks away
14:58:48GodEater_we're over run with volunteers as usual then :)
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14:59:40XavierGramiconn: DON'T delete all the info folders as I said before
15:00:06XavierGrit will corrupt dpkg and you won't be able to install more packages
15:00:08*GodEater_ looks at the fat32format code and is instantly scared. He's never understood what #pragma does.
15:00:20XavierGrdamn I did it and I don't have a backup now
15:00:48 Quit XavierGr ()
15:01:12*linuxstb wishes he had the power of a teacher and could force people to volunteer
15:01:26GodEater_linuxstb: isn't that more "drill instructor" power :)
15:02:37*GodEater_ also notes a big die("This program only supports hard drives with 512 byte sectors") message in the fat32format code.
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15:12:10linuxstbGodEater: Yes, I noticed that, but I'm thinking that if I made it more portable, someone else might volunteer to fix that aspect of it. We could then use it in ipodpatcher/rbutil to convert ipods to FAT32, and maybe also write a Rockbox plugin - useful with removable media or for Archos users with > 137GB drives.
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15:21:44CaT[tm]hmmm. is there a way to change the actual brightness? I can't find the setting under lcd
15:23:10lazkaIf i have a very small patch.. do I still have to put it into flyspray?
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15:23:31lazka(wahh.. my english sucks..)
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15:24:16linuxstblazka: You could mention it here, someone may volunteer to commit it immediately. But if not, then yes, please add it to flyspray
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15:26:03markunCaT[tm]: it's possible with the Gigabeat at least
15:26:15markunwhich player do you have?
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15:32:31CaT[tm]markun: ipod 80gb
15:32:43chrisjs169is there any way i can add some kind of debug info right as rockbox is booting (either before or right when the logo appears)?
15:32:44CaT[tm]sorry. got distracted by one of the games on rockbox =)
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15:39:01markunCaT[tm]: it's not included with rockbox, but there is a patch (with some problems)
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16:01:40amiconnlinuxstb: A format.rock would be extremely cool for >137GB archoses
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16:14:17CaT[tm]markun: thanks. bookmarked.
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16:15:28XavierGramiconn: can I download your compressed image from somewhere?
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16:34:03lazkalinuxstb: my tiny one: :P
16:46:55chrisjs169is there any way i can add some kind of debug info right as rockbox is booting (either before or right when the logo appears)?
16:47:00*linuxstb must be going mad - he can't remember jdgordon committing context-menus for the root menu, only a discussion about it, and then a patch...
16:47:31JdGordonnope... it all happened in one sitting...
16:47:40chrisjs169yay, after two hours of waiting for the rockbox logo to go away, it says error sdcard 10
16:47:42JdGordondiscussion, patch, commit, more discussion...
16:47:54GodEater_linuxstb: I see what you mean about the mtools code =/
16:48:00JdGordonlinuxstb: there was talk abot removing them, but never happened
16:48:05*amiconn still doesn't like those menu menus
16:48:29linuxstbJdGordon: I'm reading the IRC logs from that day, and there was no mention of them being committed... (afaics)
16:48:30*JdGordon loves them
16:48:50GodEater_JdGordon pulled a fast one it seems :)
16:49:24JdGordonmight have commited the day after....
16:50:10JdGordonThu Apr 12 15:28:51 2007 UTC was the date of the ocmmit
16:51:05linuxstbYes, I saw that, but the IRC logs from that day don't match - I suggested the idea at 16.14 that day, and then you wrote a patch...
16:51:28GodEater_now I've discovered that they exist, I quite like them :)
16:51:50linuxstb... the patch was posted at 17.07...
16:52:05JdGordoncan I ask what brought up the subject? bugs or annoyance? or?
16:52:23linuxstblazka's patch
16:52:26***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:53:57JdGordonlooks fine, go for it
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17:13:34chrisjs169yay, FS7134 forced me to go to Recovery Mode
17:13:39 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
17:13:48JdGordon! ?
17:13:57JdGordon7134 is the sd patch isnt it?
17:14:15JdGordonhow did that make you need recovery mode?
17:14:44chrisjs169i was getting SDCard error 10, so I went into the patch and changed the timeout from 100000 to 1, and build a new bootloader
17:14:57linuxstbWhy touch the bootloader?
17:15:28chrisjs169because apparently 7134 modified bootloader/main-pp.c
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17:16:39JdGordonthe change shhuoldnt have affected anything
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17:16:43linuxstbLooking at the diff, that's only because it needs to pass an extra (volume) parameter to the disk reading code.
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17:17:02linuxstbYou shouldn't need to install a new bootloader to use the SD patch in the main firmware.
17:17:15 Quit aaronw (Client Quit)
17:19:26chrisjs169well, since my sansa freezes for 20 mins or so before saying SDCard error 10 (before I changed the bootloader) i figured that since the patch modifies main-pp.c, i might as well try
17:21:19 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
17:21:24n1smake clean
17:22:47amiconnmake: *** No rule to make target `clean'. Stop.
17:23:26GodEater_amiconn: curse you, I was gonna do that gag! :)
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17:25:51n1sBagder: do the buid servers run the configure script before every build?
17:26:50peturn1s: look at the log of a build ;)
17:27:17n1spetur: ah thanks :-)
17:27:27GodEater_can't imagine how it would work otherwise
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17:42:53*petur wipes eyes... colfire targets lost 20K ?
17:43:24n1spetur: -Os magic
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17:49:15preglown1s: any performance impact?
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17:49:54n1spreglow: not any noticable change, test_codec and test_fps produce the same results too
17:50:38preglown1s: cool
17:51:28*amiconn wonders what happens when applying -Os to PP targets
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17:59:19pondlifeWoah, very green delta!
17:59:29pondlifeThat means I can commit loads of bloat!
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17:59:37*pondlife is catching up slowly
18:00:13*petur checks if JdGordon changed his nick to pondlife
18:00:43pondlifeNope, we are not one and the same
18:00:44*GodEater_ expects RockOffice from pondlife imminently
18:01:09GodEater_too much bloat even for you ? :)
18:01:27pondlifeMaybe several keyclick options...??
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18:02:59*pondlife wonders if the delta table could be based on the resulting audio buffer size (on target, with default settings)...
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18:13:51*linuxstb wonders if anyone understands why the codecs take two runs of make to rebuild after changing a file in a codec lib
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18:26:29preglowlinuxstb: been wondering about that for some while, yes
18:26:40preglowbut me and makefiles don't work well together yet
18:26:49pondlifemakefile badness = fun
18:27:04linuxstbpondlife: Fancy having some fun and debugging this problem then?
18:28:10pondlifeNo time, sadly
18:28:29pondlifeAlso, I'm not very good at makefiles meself.
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18:34:20chrisjs169|afkcan someone explain how "sd_poll_status(CMD_DONE, 100000, EC_COMMAND | DO_PANIC);" causes my sansa to freeze for about an hour before panicking with SDCard error 10 (MicroSD patch, FS7134)
18:35:03*linuxstb hugs test_codec and wonders how anyone optimised a codec without it
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18:38:15Haywardhello all
18:38:59Haywardcan anyone give me any information
18:39:34linuxstbThere's a blue van parked outside my window.
18:40:07*petur gets back in his chair
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18:40:51godzirraheya folks.
18:41:01godzirraIs asking questions about Senab's build a no-no, or is it ok?
18:41:13godzirraANd if its ok, darnit, why can't I get my cover art to work? :)
18:41:18peturunofficial builds are unsupported
18:42:10peturthere's a forum thread on it probably, check there...
18:42:21linuxstbPlus the AlbumArt wiki page
18:42:56godzirraYeah, I read both of those.
18:43:05Haywardcan any1 give me some information about rockbox please
18:43:11godzirraFor some reason my album art doesnt show up still. It will show up if I manually select it in the file manager, but it doesnt actually show up otherwise.
18:43:22peturHayward: please be more specific
18:43:26linuxstbHayward: has lots of information. Do you have a specific question?
18:44:14Haywardwell the FAQs states USB doest work.... so how to do place songs on the ipod when rockbox is installed
18:44:24godzirrahuh? USB works fine.
18:44:40godzirraI plug my ipod into my pc and it shows up as an external hard drive. I drag and drop songs onto it.
18:44:43linuxstbWhen you attach the USB cable, Rockbox reboots into Apple's disk mode code
18:44:59Haywardoh mustnt been reading it right :$
18:45:27linuxstbStrictly speaking, Rockbox doesn't support USB, but it knows enough to use Apple's USB code.
18:45:35Haywardand do u use apple firmware and music already on the ipod when installing.. like u do on ipodlinux?
18:45:37linuxstbSo in practice, you don't notice.
18:45:42Haywarddo u lose*
18:45:56linuxstbNo, the install is non-destructive.
18:45:58godzirraNope. I booted into my apple firmware by accident yesterday. ;)
18:46:01godzirrawas really confused for a minute.
18:46:15Haywardso installing i keep all music and apple os
18:46:41preglowmarkun: yo, anything happening on the gsoc front?
18:46:42peturwise people make backups
18:47:00Haywardi had to reformat my pc... so lost all music
18:47:08bluebrotherbah ... no risk, no fun :D
18:47:42Haywardu sure :P
18:47:45preglowand btw, anyone know what eq facilities the gigbeat retailos has?
18:47:46chrisjs169|afkcan someone explain how "sd_poll_status(CMD_DONE, 100000, EC_COMMAND | DO_PANIC);" causes my sansa to freeze for about an hour before panicking with SDCard error 10 (MicroSD patch, FS7134)
18:48:11peturHayward: it would be wise to copy the files from your ipod to some other place just to be safe
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18:48:38Haywardcan i just copy the songs to my pc without the first copy
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18:48:49peturHayward: and buy CD's - it's a nice backup medium
18:49:06bluebrotherHayward: if you connect the ipod in disk mode you can access all data on it, so you can backup everything
18:49:13markunpreglow: my gsoc guy was very busy and started to play with rockbox development yesterdat
18:49:25linuxstbmarkun: Does he own a target?
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18:51:55markunlinuxstb: no
18:52:04markunI'm telling him to buy one
18:52:14markunand to come here to talk to you guys
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18:52:43preglowyeah, remember you saying he couldn't start right away, just wanted to know if he had now
18:52:45Haywardsry about that
18:53:00Haywardso i have disk mode on... to get my songs.. ipodcontrol?
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18:54:28raymondjtothdose rovk box firmeware work on a ip shuffle the white one
18:54:36raymondjtothor first one that camer out 512
18:54:47pondlifeCould anyone update the wiki to show the actual mentors/students/projects? Link:
18:55:05pondlifeOr is it listed elsewhere?
18:56:04chrisjs169|afkraymondjtoth: i dun see ip shuffle the white one listed on the main page of the Rockbox site
18:56:10n1sraymondjtoth: no, it doesn't work on any ipos shuffles
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18:56:45chrisjs169|afkI don't see how it could though, if it has no display
18:56:53raymondjtothnls or chris is there any other firmware for first gen of ipod shuffle
18:56:57raymondjtothi can use
18:58:27amiconnchrisjs169: The problem with the shuffle is *not* the lack of a display...
18:58:31chrisjs169|afkraymondjtoth: there's iPodLinux, but it says the ipod shuffle quote "WILL NEVER BE SUPPORTED"
18:58:34chrisjs169|afkamiconn: ok
18:58:46raymondjtothchris any other you know of
18:58:55raymondjtothmight help
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19:00:00chrisjs169|afkraymondjtoth: i don't know of any others that'd be any good/have decent support (and google reviels nothing)
19:00:10Haywarddoes rockbox work with the lastest apple firmware which comes with iTunes 7
19:00:52dionoeaHayward: rockbox doesn't use the apple firmware
19:01:23Haywarddont listen to me.. i just asked that because i remember ipodlinx dont work if u have used itunes7
19:02:04Haywardi just though rockbox wont work either
19:02:17bluebrotherHayward: no −− the problem with Itunes is that it overwrites the bootloader upon updates.
19:02:44bluebrotherso if Itunes overwrites the bootloader on your Ipod you need to reinstall it. That's all.
19:03:05Haywardso still able to install rockbox then
19:03:29bluebrotheryes. You can use Itunes with Rockbox / IPL without any problems. The only thing are updates
19:03:34amiconnchrisjs169: The problem with the shuffle is that there is no free compiler supporting its cpu architecture
19:03:47bluebrotherin which case you might need to reinstall the bootloader (i.e. re-run ipodpatcher)
19:04:20Haywardi dont update my ipod much anyway
19:04:59Haywardso im ok to go then
19:05:37*GodEater recommends rbutil over ipodpatcher these das
19:06:05chrisjs169|afkamiconn: yeah, i noticed that on the ipodlinux site
19:06:08mpeccoriniamiconn: is there a free compiler suporting second generation ipod nano's cpu?
19:06:09amiconn"will never be supported" is wrong imho, it should read "will not be supported unless a freely available compiler for 56k pops up" (plus ipl will then probably wait for 56k being supported by clinx)
19:06:32GodEatermpeccorini: yes, it's arm based
19:06:41amiconnmpeccorini: Yes; the problem with the nano G2 is a completely different one
19:06:53mpeccoriniamiconn: what is it?
19:07:14mpeccorinithat we don't know/have reference of the chips?
19:07:30Haywardhow do u copy all music from ipod to pc
19:07:33GodEaterno, the firmware on it is encrypted
19:07:34Haywardi lost all mine
19:07:35amiconnNearly everything is encrypted, and the main chips are epoxied to the board
19:07:55raymondjtothwhat can i use that good to manige my ipod
19:08:08raymondjtothim still learning linux and never did ipod stuff
19:08:10raymondjtothon it
19:08:11amiconnThe latter makes it impossible to measure signals
19:08:35amiconn...because the epoxy can't be removed without also destructing the chips afaik
19:08:46mpeccoriniamiconn: wow, was that a "direct" decision against Rockbox/Ipod Linux?
19:09:02GodEatermpeccorini: not that we know of
19:09:03dionoeadidn't people find a way to measure signals from chips hidden by epoxy on the xbox 260 ?
19:09:07*dionoea googles
19:09:08raymondjtothdid any one see my q
19:09:20GodEaterraymondjtoth: how does your question relate to rockbox ?
19:09:43raymondjtothsome might want to use linxand magie it with rockbox firmeware
19:09:44GodEaterdionoea: The first 360's didn't have epoxied chips
19:10:04GodEaterraymondjtoth: well in that case just use a linux based file manager
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19:11:07GodEaterdionoea: at least, thats as I recall it - I followed the attempts to hack it on xbox-scene for a while
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19:11:25GodEaterI've sort of lost interest now I have a PS3 which is open enough to run what i want without hacking
19:12:49amiconnIt might be possible to measure signals, but it will be very tricky
19:13:35chrisjs169|afkcan someone explain how "sd_poll_status(CMD_DONE, 100000, EC_COMMAND | DO_PANIC);" causes my sansa to freeze for about an hour before panicking with SDCard error 10 (MicroSD patch, FS7134)
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19:15:33preglowpondlife: did a quick update of the gsoc page now, just the info, no structural changes
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19:15:43mpeccoriniamiconn: can't you drill the epoxy carefully enough to reach the pins?
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19:17:27preglowpondlife: probably should clean out a lot of the cruft now that we know what's accepted, though
19:17:54dionoeaGodEater: well i don't have an xbox 360 either so i didn't follow it too closely. (I own a wii)
19:18:28dionoeaand you'd have to be willing to sacrifice your ipod anyway so i doubt that anyone with enough experience will ever do that
19:19:16mpeccorinidionoea: yes, but there must be someone who broke the screen or something and willing to sell it for peanuts
19:20:00pondlifepreglow: Thanks
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19:22:40mpeccorinidionoea: someone like this guy:
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19:24:51preglowthink i'll finally have a look at this musepack patch now
19:27:49GodEaterdionoea: I have a wii too :)
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19:30:12markunpreglow: "mr speex" told me there should be a death penalty for people using linear interpolation for audio :)
19:30:22LycoLocohey guys, I've been using the mpegplayer-resume patch and some of the videos that I've converted using winff work, whereas others don't. I can't seem to find any commonality between the videos that work and the ones that don't. Anyone have any idea what might work, or has anyone used this plugin?
19:31:58n1sLycoLoco: do you mean that they work without the patch but don't when you have the patch?
19:33:54 Quit petur ("work->home")
19:37:13preglowmarkun: my list of death penalties is getting long now, just waiting for someone to come along and actually execute me
19:37:33markuncould be a long while
19:37:47preglowwe'll see
19:37:55preglowi don't think i can be bothered to write another one just now either
19:39:20LycoLocon1s: yes, that's true
19:39:36LycoLocothey'll work without it but not with
19:40:10n1sLycoLoco: do they not work at all with the patch or is it just the resuming that does not work?
19:40:25markunpreglow: I was talking to him about the resampler used in libspeex
19:40:48markunhe thought that even at the lowest quality setting it would be a lot better than what we have now
19:40:52LycoLocowell, the video works and I hear a blip of audio at teh start of the video, but resuming doesn't work, so much so that when I stop a video it hard-locks the player and requires the batter switch to be flipped
19:40:57preglowi haven't looked too much at it
19:41:03preglowbut sure, everything beats linear interpolation
19:41:08preglowso it doesn't surprise me
19:41:24preglowbut linear interpolation happens to be fast, which is what we needed when i coded it
19:41:36n1sLycoLoco: please report this with as much detail as possible in the tracker entry for the patch
19:42:11markunpreglow: that's what I told hem and then he started to become very cynical
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19:44:02preglowand he can be as cynical as he wants, the resampler has worked for a long time and has gotten waaaay fewer complaints than i would have expected
19:44:03LycoLocon1s: alrighty, I'll do a full writeup when I get back from lunch.
19:44:38preglowat least after jhMikeS fixed the clicky issue
19:44:53preglow(which wasn't the resampler's fault)
19:45:02LycoLocoI've also got a 5 meg clip that does not work with the patch but plays fine on my PC (I know, different architecture, I'll probably get around to trying it with a standard build later today), so I'll upload that as well
19:45:26lazkahaha :) todays one rock
19:45:28 Quit GodEater_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
19:45:42LycoLocolazka: yeah, today's was great
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19:51:24preglowanyone know why including a list of years in a copyright statement is necessary?
19:51:47XavierGrmaybe the copyright holder can change it time?
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19:53:28preglowXavierGr: sure, but that's not the usual case. usually it's just the same copyright holder, and a bunch of yeras
19:53:28LycoLocook, I might just be blind, but how cand I comment on a plugin in the tracker?
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19:53:41Haywardquestion.. can i stil llisten to music which itunes has put on in rockbox?
19:53:51LycoLocono, they're two different databases, iirc
19:53:56preglowLycoLoco: ehh, the "add comment" part?
19:54:08preglowHayward: yes you can, by using rockbox' database function
19:54:16preglowLycoLoco: you probably need to be signed in
19:54:17LycoLocooh, I stand corrected
19:54:41pearldiverbrand new gigabeat f40 for sale from US
19:54:48DerPapstGodEater: about your question whether we know if the mtools package is required for formatting 30GB 5.5G models as well... the answer is yes.
19:55:14Haywardhow do u do that?
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19:55:46markunHayward: just go to 'database'
19:55:55Haywardin rockbox?
19:56:16Haywardwell first... need to install it...
19:56:59Haywardif i can...
19:58:10Haywardu just put all the files in the ipod root folder then use ipodpatcher?
19:58:55markunI think rbutil is prefered now
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20:52:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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21:00:24linuxstb_preglow: Regarding your question about copyright years - I'm guessing it's because copyright has a limited life, so the date of the work (or modifications) is important in that respect.
21:00:48preglowlinuxstb_: yeah, but wouldn't the last year be what decided the copyright lifespan anyway?
21:00:58preglowfor any given release you do, you copyright something anew
21:01:06preglowand i really didn't want that to rhyme, sorry about that
21:02:44linuxstb_I guess only the parts written in the most recent year would be (C) that year.
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21:05:10 Join lowlight [0] (i=c730190a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
21:06:09netmasta10bthow do u get to the pitch screen
21:06:28linuxstb_Depends what device you're holding in your hand
21:06:51*linuxstb_ doesn't know
21:07:10linuxstb_Have you looked in the manual?
21:07:11 Quit _pill (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:08:04netmasta10bti am a googlin −− not findin it yet −− just wonderin if someone knew
21:08:44linuxstb_Try the "manual" link in the left menu on every page of the Rockbox website
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21:11:51LycoLoconetmasta10bt: I don't think that pitchbend is actually available for turning on
21:11:54LycoLocoI tried to find it and could not
21:13:12netmasta10btyeah its in the manual but doesnt say how to get there −− maybe in the open with... screen but its not in there on mine
21:13:51netmasta10btoh i found it
21:14:21netmasta10btwhen on the play screen press down its in the context menu
21:15:02netmasta10btheh chipmunks
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21:47:02linuxstbn1s: Regarding your -Os commit, was there a reason to create a new mem_functions_wrapper.h file for the macro, instead of just putting it in plugin.h with the other plugin macros?
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21:50:17Haywardquestion the videos plugin does the mpg need to be compressed or uncompressed?
21:50:27linuxstbmpg is compressed by definition
21:50:44Haywardok... i wish ipodlinx would stop lieing
21:51:24linuxstbSomeone is probably confusing .mpg with .avi - .avi can contain any video codec, including either compressed or uncompressed video.
21:51:38Bagderand ipl's player at least used to require uncompressed video
21:51:56linuxstbThere's been a new player for a while that handles some kind of home-made compression.
21:52:11*Bagder takes a mental note
21:52:27Haywardis there a converter of .flv to .mpg?
21:52:38linuxstbBut from what I've read, it's slower than mpegplayer, and only handles uncompressed audio.
21:52:47linuxstbAlthough it does have seeking...
21:53:39BagderHayward: as that google guy
21:53:53Haywardtried google...
21:54:08BagderI got a bazillion links suggested
21:54:15Bagdersome of them have to work
21:54:33Haywardi cant find any... :( i got to go though
21:54:34 Quit Hayward ("Leaving")
21:55:36Bagder"Results 1 - 10 of about 1,700,000 for flv converter mpeg. "
21:56:28preglowjhMikeS: around?
21:59:08 Quit lazka ("I'm off now")
21:59:48lowlightHayward: try
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22:19:28n1slinuxstb_: I guess I could put it in the plugin.h file... dunno why I mad ea new file really, do you think it would be better?
22:19:42preglowwell, the fewer files the better
22:20:15n1spreglow: ok, will do tomorrow then, goodnight
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22:34:33*ender` yawns
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22:36:06peturgive us your quit message :p
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22:43:48FebsGodEater: am I correct that the Hilton on Aldwych is close to the place that you propose to meet?
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22:51:02GodEaterpretty close yes
22:52:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:53:07*GodEater looks at a map.
22:53:14GodEaterVery close indeed it would seem :)
22:53:21*GodEater would even consider walking it
22:53:36GodEaternot recommended for a person unfamiliar with London however
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22:55:47GodEaternice choice of hotel Febs :@)
22:56:14pixelmabluebrother: just what I wanted to say too in the forums :) Btw. I now tracked the pdf-manual problem down and found out that it occured with rev. 13216 (introduction of the rockbox-info.txt) - almost expected that.
22:57:25pixelma(hope he reads the logs)
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23:04:04alienbiker99anybody have a meizu?
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23:06:01*GodEater is off to bed now.
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23:19:42somedudecould it be that rockbox doesn't work on 5.5g ipods which already have ipodlinux installed? I get the error msg "no partition found"
23:20:12somedudeI've got 3 partitions on my ipod, the firmware partition, ipodlinux and the big data partition
23:20:51Soapsomedude: is it a FAT32 iPod or (I suspect) a HFS+ formatted iPod?
23:20:52*petur summons ipod guru
23:21:05somedudeyes, its a fat32
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23:22:13somedudeluckily, uninstalling ipodloader seems to work, so at least I can use the stock ipod os again
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23:31:56indigio3hey guys - what is the current battery situation on the ipod 4G grayscale? I've checked the website but the table hasnt been updated for a while.
23:35:06Robin0800indigio3,what do you mean?
23:35:54indigio3i'm trying to find the link.. there was a comparison table showing how the current battery life of the 4G ipod compares to that of Rockbox and it was last updated in 2005
23:36:14indigio3I was wondering if the battery life has improved somewhat (I don't own a 4G ipod yet you see..)
23:37:45 Quit chrisjs169 (Connection timed out)
23:37:52Robin0800indigio3,i take it that this 4g would not be new
23:38:08indigio3no, its not new
23:38:15krazykitindigio3, you can get a superior player for about the same price
23:38:26krazykitunless you're getting it for free :P
23:38:53indigio3eep i've bought it already.. whats the alternative?
23:39:16indigio3Considering I bought the 40gb 4G greyscale ipod for 66.50 (UK pounds) including delivery
23:39:21Robin0800indigio3,battery capacity gets less the older it is
23:39:27krazykitoh, you're in the uk
23:39:33krazykitthe gigabeat f40 goes for around $120 bucks in the states
23:39:54indigio3ah right... the gigabeats hardly have a presence here at the moment
23:40:02 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
23:40:10krazykitand probably never will, since the f/x series is no longer made :P
23:40:28indigio3robin: yep I know, I was considering changing the battery to a 830mAh battery... (is it worth it and what is the default battery in the ipod?)
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23:41:11indigio3krazy: ah ok then, just as well... 66.50 translates into dollars as 131.18455 if you were interested
23:41:55 Quit desowin ("use linux")
23:42:33linuxstbindigio3: ipods are probably at the bottom of everyone's list of Rockbox recommendations...
23:43:41Robin0800indigio3, for ipod battery info
23:43:57indigio3linuxstb - yep i know
23:43:57indigio3thanks robin
23:48:00indigio3shame the Creative JB3 can't have it's firmware completely demolished and flashed with Rockbox :-(
23:48:21indigio3it's too old anyway.. it would probably explode just trying to display the file name hah
23:48:39 Quit indigio3 ()
23:55:20lazkasuddenly, every time i compile it starts compiling the whole thing (which takes very long)... 5 minutes ago it just updated the changed stuff :( help any1?
23:55:52DerPapstyou have to live with it afaik
23:56:12DerPapstbut make should check if the files are up to date and then skip them.
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