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#rockbox log for 2007-06-14

00:01:11lazkaok.. rockbox freezes @ splash, i guess that has sth to do with this ;)
00:01:32 Quit davina_ (Remote closed the connection)
00:03:17DerPapsthas to do with what?
00:05:43 Quit midkay ("Leaving")
00:06:47 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!")
00:07:12 Quit thegeek (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:07:29 Join thegeek [0] (
00:15:33 Join safetydan [0] (i=cbca159f@rockbox/developer/safetydan)
00:15:47 Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@
00:16:21 Join webguest21 [0] (i=cbd90c19@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:16:46webguest21will rockbox run on gigabeat V60E?
00:16:57webguest21is there support for 1seg?
00:17:08webguest21is there any hack with rockbox for 1seg?
00:17:30markunI don't even know what "1seg" is
00:17:36webguest21hi mark
00:17:47webguest211seg is the digital tv used in japan
00:17:57DerPapstmaybe 1 segund?
00:18:20webguest21more specifically, i am wondering if rockbox has something for this, so possibly we could change the setting from 1seg freq, to dvb-t
00:18:47webguest21s/u/o>> ?
00:19:15webguest21dvb-t is used throughout europe and australia
00:20:08webguest21mark derpast, what is your favourite thing about rockbox?
00:20:19markunwebguest21: which tuner chip is it?
00:20:28 Join TrueJournals [0] (
00:20:38webguest21i am unsure how to find that out
00:21:12markunopen up the player and take pictures
00:21:23krazykitwebguest21, rockbox runs on the gigabeat f and x, not the v or s.
00:21:54webguest21KrazyKit: not at all? never?
00:22:09markunmaybe someday
00:22:23 Quit Febs ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
00:22:24webguest21is there any other software that you may be able to steer me towards?
00:22:55krazykitnot really
00:23:06 Quit Siltaar ("Aurevoir -")
00:23:09alienbiker99webguest21 work is being done on the s and v
00:23:25webguest21thanks alianbiker99
00:23:50alienbiker99as of last update they are trying to get text to print on the screen
00:23:52webguest21so nobody can tell me of another site to try and find mods for the gigabeat?
00:24:08DerPapstthere aren'T any.
00:24:27webguest21so i cant even install a different OS on it? has some forums, but there are no alternative softwares.
00:24:33krazykitno, you can't.
00:24:34webguest21not even full Windows Mobile?
00:24:34 Quit Robin0800 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:25:03webguest21wow, good on toshiba for making it so strong
00:25:06markunwebguest21: the main things I like about rockbox are ogg vorbis playback and UMS support
00:25:29markunyes, that you can use the gigabeat as a normal USB drive
00:25:46markunno special media player mode or toshiba software
00:26:07webguest21can i ask one more question
00:26:12markunMaybe we can port rockbox to the sony players one day as they have the same problem
00:26:14webguest21then i'll leave you all alone
00:26:32markunjust ask, and you can hang around as long as you like :)
00:26:37pearldiverbrand new gigabeat f40 for sale from US
00:27:10markunpearldiver: another one? ;)
00:27:16pearldiversame one :P
00:27:44markunwebguest21: do you have a japanese Gigabeat V?
00:28:10webguest21it was awesome while in japan!
00:28:29webguest21i could watch and record tv anywhere i went
00:28:43markunI believe that all the components are under a metal cover which you have to unsolder if you want to take a look at them
00:29:09webguest21only reason it doesnt work here is because 1seg uses a different freq than here.
00:29:35markunotherwise it's the same standard as dvb-t?
00:29:41 Quit spiorf (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
00:29:45 Join moos [0] (
00:29:45webguest21so i am looking to do 1 of 2 things, these are, find firmware to switch the freq to dvb-t
00:30:09webguest21or, install a new OS, maybe some light linux variant and see what i can do
00:30:26webguest21or even the full version of windows mobile
00:30:38 Quit Thundercloud__ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:30:52webguest21google isnt very helpful on this topic
00:31:17markunyou make it sound so simple..
00:31:18webguest21and i've posted on mygigabeat already.. i think i must be the only person in the world wanting this
00:31:44 Join bytie [0] (
00:32:34webguest21what are you thoughts markun
00:33:25markunI think that you don't have many realistic options
00:33:52markunto replace the firmware you will have to do a lot of work
00:34:36markunand you can't just modify it because the firmware is digitally signed
00:34:52 Quit Rincewind ("Cya")
00:35:19markunthere is a way to run custom code on the Gigabeat S which might also work on the Gigabeat V
00:35:57markunbut it has been confirmed that the same trick doesn't work on the Zune which is based on the same hardware
00:35:58webguest21see the 1seg tv has its own button, and its own applet that runs instead of the windows mobile software
00:36:46markunthe applet doesn't run in windows mobile?
00:36:59webguest21probably does actually
00:37:09webguest21i guess it has too
00:38:09 Part TrueJournals
00:38:13jhMikeSpreglow: around now for a bit
00:39:52markunjhMikeS: I know you are working on too many things already, but are you still planning to work on the low latency audio mixer stuff?
00:40:32 Join spiorf [0] (
00:42:18preglowjhMikeS: looking at'
00:42:37jhMikeSmarkun: I don't know what to do with it really. I really doubt all devices can handle it. For PP, it will need dual core and for others finer CPU frequency control because of the short length of the output buffer.
00:42:41preglowjhMikeS: do the asm versions of these routines already round, or? i guess that depends on the dsp emac settings
00:43:03preglowwhich right now seem to be set to not round
00:44:42jhMikeScoldfire won't have a DC offset because of rounding...I used to have it in rounding mode anyway but removed it because I didn't care about it
00:45:06 Quit petur ("zzzz")
00:45:10preglowwell, if you don't use rounding mode, how does it not have the dc offset?
00:45:22preglowwithout rounding mode, movclr just truncates, like the c code
00:46:01jhMikeSright...I'm not talking clearly...but didn't we talk about this :) esp. in the late stage. I was concerned with it.
00:46:07 Join Hayward [0] (
00:46:09 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
00:46:20preglowjhMikeS: we might have been...
00:46:36preglowi don't really know how concerned i am with it now
00:46:41jhMikeSI remember being anal about it not long ago
00:46:49Haywardstupid question every1
00:47:14preglowi'm actually considering just fixing it in test_codec to ease comparison with pc based codecs
00:47:26Haywardwhere do u upload to file browers?
00:47:43krazykitHayward, anywhere you like, except .rockbox
00:47:53Haywardeven a video
00:48:14krazykiti have mine in seperate directories though
00:48:24krazykitmusic, video, pictures, etc.
00:48:25Haywardi have 1 video :P
00:48:56krazykitwell, your orginization is up to you :P
00:49:21Haywarddamm... didnt fit
00:50:39Haywardi cant see all the video :(
00:51:10preglowjhMikeS: the bit depth conversions happens as the latest possible stage anyway, so the dc offset should really never bother you, unless you happen to do codec testing or something
00:51:33 Quit moos (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:51:38Haywardanyway of making a video smaller so i can see it all on the screen?
00:52:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:53:03jhMikeSusing the divide operator will actually round towards 0 too...or an error term (which is always + with truncation) ... many ways of doing it
00:54:23safetydanHayward, you need to encode the video specifically for Rockbox. Take a look at
00:54:42 Part bytie
00:54:51 Part pacifist_049
00:54:52Haywardi didnt do that :P
00:55:50preglowjhMikeS: yeah, but add with shift should be plenty cheaper
00:55:52 Join Llorean [0] (
00:55:57Haywardwhich 1 is the best?
00:56:00preglowjhMikeS: especially on arms, which have no div
00:57:26LloreanHayward: Different people prefer different ones, though I think for many people WinFF will prove to be the least complicated, especially for converting groups of files.
00:58:04Haywardipod 4:3 as output?
00:59:07LloreanIs the original video 4:3?
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01:00:51preglowseems it's bedtime now
01:02:22jhMikeSDoes that method give eqivalent results? The divides get implemented as shifts if the den is a pow2 constant.
01:02:39 Join jhulst [0] (
01:02:42 Quit webguest21 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:03:26preglowwell, yeah, but the shift isn't constant
01:03:31preglowit varies with codec output bit depth
01:04:54preglowit's always a power of two, but try telling the compiler that
01:05:14Haywardi will use 4:3
01:08:17jhMikeSthey're just changing it to essentially (x + (2^(n-1))) / (2^n) if I read right
01:09:01jhMikeSI suppose it almost asm time for all that on ARM anyway
01:09:49 Quit Hayward ("Leaving")
01:10:15preglowdon't expect too much of a gain from it
01:10:25pregloweven bursting doesn't seem to matter too much on arm
01:10:27 Join droo [0] (i=568bdc16@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:10:35preglowat least on pp, which is all i've dealt with
01:10:39droolo guys - anyone alive
01:11:13droojust gettin rockbox on me ipod video - wots this stuff to do with patchs for some of the wps themes ??
01:12:46 Join rotator [0] (n=e@rockbox/developer/rotator)
01:12:47DerPapstgood night every one :-)
01:12:53 Quit DerPapst ("So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!")
01:12:57 Quit Entasis (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:12:58jhMikeSanother thing I want to take advantage of if I can is the fact the FIFOs on PP targets are memory mapped to an address range, not a single port address
01:14:50 Quit darkless ("Leaving")
01:14:53 Quit ender` (" If God had intended us to go around naked, He would have made us that way.")
01:15:07preglowyou know the valid range?
01:16:41jhMikeSThe number of slots*4
01:16:53jhMikeS+ base
01:19:18preglowthat would mean touching some asm too
01:19:50jhMikeSI have the sd card reading nicely from it using ldmia but something's goofy when writing it. I don't know yet if it's just the driver handling though...I want to find out cause I'm sick of reformatting when the writes mess up :P
01:20:30 Join Thundercloud_ [0] (n=thunderc@
01:20:54preglowah, i thought you were talking i2s fifos
01:22:17 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
01:22:29 Quit droo ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
01:24:04preglowyeah, noticed i2c fifos are memory mapped too
01:24:06 Join darkless [0] (
01:24:37preglowwe don't properly use those yet
01:24:43 Quit mpeccorini (" HydraIRC -> <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.")
01:24:43preglowat least not for writing, i think
01:26:04preglowanywho, bedtime
01:26:15 Quit Thundercloud (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
01:29:35 Quit Mouser_X (Nick collision from services.)
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01:31:54Lloreansafetydan: Apparently iTunes now supports the TSOP etc tags, according to one absolutely unconfirmed source in our forums.
01:33:31*Llorean finds confirmation by reading this "internet" thing a little bit.
01:38:41markunLlorean: I talked to the xiph guys in #vorbis and they didn't know what other people use for TSOP in vorbis tags
01:39:05safetydanLlorean, well now, isn't that interesting.
01:39:39safetydanmarkun, AFAIK it's ARTISTSORT, TITLESORT, and ALBUMSORT. But there's no official standard, that's just what Musicbrainz and SlimServer use.
01:40:27markunsafetydan: I know there is nothing official, but I didn't even know about musicbrainz and slimserver (and neither did they)
01:40:57LloreanI wonder where I read what I did then. :(
01:41:21safetydanThis has been my reference so far
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01:51:16 Part TrueJournals
02:01:22 Join peanutb [0] (
02:03:51peanutbwhat is the rockbox kernel based on? or is it its own kernel?
02:04:22Soapaye, it's its own man.
02:05:21peanutbso it was 100% original code (the kernel i mean)?
02:05:53Soapon the 100% question I'll defer to the writers.
02:06:34peanutbbut it was built from the ground up. Woo that must have taken some doing
02:07:22 Join TrueJournals [0] (
02:12:36safetydanpeanutb, not to understate the effort, but writing a simple operating system kernel is standard stuff for most computer science university degrees.
02:14:37ShaidI never had to do that in my computer science degree.
02:14:46ShaidI was robbed! Robbed!
02:14:52peanutbyes. But getting it to run on closed platforms doesnt seem like it is easy.
02:15:03 Part TrueJournals
02:18:10safetydanHrm, there used to be a "History of Rockbox" page somewhere that explained how it got started.
02:18:15safetydanOr maybe I'm just going crazy.
02:22:02Shaidthere's a teeny tiny bit of history in the faq
02:22:05 Quit bdgraue (Remote closed the connection)
02:26:50 Join BHSPitLappy [0] (
02:36:23pixelmathe "older news" on the front page gives an impression ;)
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02:39:18 Part pixelma
02:41:58 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
02:52:38***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:57:48 Part Joely
03:02:47 Join larc [0] (i=4463e7d2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
03:03:35larcthis is going to be an extremely noobish question, but what software do you use to add songs when using rockbox?
03:04:38scorcheanything you want, really
03:05:33larccould I use, say, winamp with the ipod version? or do I still have to use itunes?
03:05:54LloreanYou're better off not using anything designed for iPods, unless you really want to use the original firmware for music.
03:06:00 Join webguest [0] (i=42444ee1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
03:06:08LloreanMost of us just copy the files in explorer, or something similarly simple and basic.
03:06:26 Join Rob222241 [0] (
03:06:46larcoh, so should I just make a music folder and then navigate there with rockbox?
03:06:46 Quit webguest (Client Quit)
03:06:58 Nick jurrie_ is now known as jurrie (
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03:10:35Lloreanlarc: That's the easiest way, probably. Or at least the most basic.
03:10:39LloreanWorks for me, at least. :)
03:11:22m_schneiderDoes anyone how progress is coming on seeking for mpeg player?
03:12:54LloreanI don't know that anyone's working on it right now.
03:14:03 Quit larc ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
03:16:04LloreanI believe there's a patch in the tracker that creates a resume point when you stop a file, allowing you to pick up where you left off.
03:21:28m_schneideryes i've applied it
03:23:15 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:26:57 Join perldiver [0] (
03:32:22m_schneideris there a way to set the clock in VMware?
03:35:54Lloreansafetydan: You here?
03:36:12safetydanLlorean, yo
03:36:43Lloreansafetydan: I don't know how you've implemented the sort tags in your WIP patch, and I don't know if this is maybe obvious (or obviously a bad idea and I've missed it)
03:36:55 Quit entheh ("^~")
03:37:17LloreanBut it seems to me the sort tags should have separate entries when creating tagnavi files than the normal tags, and maybe should fall back to their parallel 'display' tag if the sort one isn't found in the database?
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03:38:32 Quit m_schneider ("CGI:IRC")
03:38:40safetydanWell at the moment the patch adds sortalbum, sortartist, and sorttitle as additional tagnavi attributes.
03:39:09jurriesafetydan: I'm with you on your latest post
03:39:31LloreanI don't know, maybe tagnavi needs a way to add a fallback if the requested tag isn't present.
03:39:40safetydanWhich I'm not sure is the right way. What I was thinking was that the sort tags are only used by the database to sort the entries and aren't actually stored by tagcache.
03:39:43Lloreanjurrie: My preference is for a PC side tool too.
03:40:12Lloreanjurrie: Basically, my point was that rockbox could include a plugin (if someone wrote one) for those people who really want everything handled by the player.
03:40:29 Quit pearldiver (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:40:31jurrieOK.... I'd never run it, though :-)
03:40:36Lloreansafetydan: I'm not sure I understand that statement.
03:40:51Lloreanjurrie: Nor I. I actually like my "The Blah" in the T section.
03:40:59LloreanSince it doesn't actually make them any harder to find.
03:42:25 Quit andrew__2 ("leaving")
03:42:36safetydanLlorean, tagcache stores all the album titles and so forth presorted (i.e. they're sorted at database build time only). All I think the sort tags should do, is change that sort order.
03:43:03Lloreansafetydan: Ah, so when the database is generated, it's generated in a different order but doesn't actually keep the tags?
03:43:11LloreanWill that affect the ability to update the database?
03:43:37LloreanAlso, I *think* it might be important to keep the tags around for other purposes.
03:43:43 Join andrew__2 [0] (
03:43:57LloreanBut I'm not sure yet.
03:44:18safetydanIt shouldn't affect updating the database
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03:44:47safetydanI agree it feels kind of odd to just throw away the sort metadata, but I can't see any reason for keeping it.
03:45:30LloreanI can't at the moment either.
03:46:00 Quit andrew__2 (Client Quit)
03:46:13LloreanYou can have a CD with the Artist Sort labelled "Various", but the artist displays proper for the individual tracks.
03:46:16 Join andrew__2 [0] (
03:46:26LloreanIf you've thrown away the "Artist Sort" tag, it won't show up as a single album.
03:46:54LloreanBut if the tagnavi filters by the artist sort, rather than the artist, you'll see all songs from that album in the album view, even though the artist you selected only has one or two songs on it
03:47:05LloreanWell "apparently" selected.
03:47:27LloreanDoes that make any sense?
03:47:40safetydanSort of.
03:47:48LloreanIt's not a perfect solution, by any means.
03:47:58LloreanBut there really is no "perfect" solution to various artist albums, I think
03:48:19safetydanthe tagcache/database code is something I'm not familiar with so I'm learning as I go
03:48:23LloreanBut I think it is a valid use for the sort data, as a user-hack for it.
03:49:38safetydanActually, the various artist issue I thought was dealt with by the albumartist tag?
03:50:05LloreanHm, that's a use for that too.
03:50:15LloreanI thought that was used for other things.
03:50:24LloreanSince the "artist" tag is technically "Performer"
03:50:30LloreanBut makes sense.
03:50:32LloreanI can be ignored. :)
03:50:51safetydanSo albumartist = "Compilation Maker" and artist ="Track Performer"
03:51:11LloreanAnd I guess Compilation Maker could be "Grammy Nominees 2008" or whatever, yeah.
03:51:21LloreanOr just "Various"
03:52:08safetydanSo yeah, I think the sort metadata should only affect the building and updating of the database, not the actual configuration of it (i.e. the tagnavi file)
03:52:31LloreanWorks for me.
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03:52:56LloreanKeeps the RAM footprint of the database down when loaded to RAM too, doesn't it?
03:59:08safetydanLlorean, well in theory it should lead to no change in the RAM footprint.
04:00:33LloreanWhich is good. I can imagine the database already getting quite large with some collections.
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04:52:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:53:14 Part TrueJournals
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05:12:37 Quit Rondom (Nick collision from services.)
05:12:53 Join Rondom [0] ( is going to be quite toasty in vegas for devcon
05:13:55scorchehigh of 106 on fri
05:14:11JdGordonthats about 38C isnt it?
05:14:40JdGordonnice and warm :)
05:15:07scorchegood thing we have AC in the suite =)
05:15:30*Llorean is from Texas.
05:15:34LloreanLas Vegas is at least not so humid
05:15:49scorche8-10% ish
05:15:51scorchequite dry
05:16:44scorchethe pool will be nice though =)
05:16:57 Join Destroyer14094 [0] (i=d1def452@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
05:17:08JdGordonhmm... according to google its almost the same latitude as melbourne, so yeah, nice n dry
05:17:14*JdGordon loves melbourne summer
05:17:30scorchevegas is pretty bad if you dont have AC
05:17:52JdGordonhot as hell but low humidity... not like sydney :p
05:17:53 Quit Destroyer14094 (Client Quit)
05:18:19scorcheyeah...high humidity is the worst in hot just feel like you are walking out into an oven
05:18:28scorchealmost a solid wall
05:19:00*JdGordon had that fun getting out of the plane a year or two ago goign waaay up north.. aircom plane to 36C and 110% humidity
05:20:00JdGordonanywho... anyone thing there will be much opposition to having customizable quickscreens?
05:20:19*scorche hides behind a couch to be safe
05:20:20JdGordonI'm fiddlign with the wa settings are handled and it will make doing that easy
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05:24:31JdGordonscorche: you still need stuff to fll the agenda?
05:24:51scorchei never did, but other topics are always welcome
05:25:52JdGordonif you have time, can you bring up a hypothetical talk about starting an experimental branch which starts apps/ again from scratch? see who would be interested...
05:26:28scorchewith git, you could do that instantly and not worry about merging back =/
05:26:39*JdGordon slaps scorche
05:26:45scorchewhat? =P
05:27:02safetydanJdGordon, what would be the benefit of that? I'd be more interested in seeing more stuff pulled from firmware/ in to apps/ like id3.c
05:28:01JdGordonbecause, I kee looking a the code and so much of it is hack upon hack up hack, if we started from scratch we could probably have a whole lot of much cleaner code
05:28:31scorcheJdGordon: how about i talk about git instead? =P
05:28:39JdGordonbut yeah, moving stuff out of firmware shuold be a higher priority
05:28:48JdGordonI tihnk everyone is over the whole git thing arnt they?
05:28:50*safetydan fears the "second system effect"
05:29:13scorchewhy should one be "over" it?
05:29:36JdGordonsecond system effect?
05:30:49safetydanI'd rather see gradual refactoring then a burn-down and rewrite.
05:32:05JdGordonseems to be about the same answer in different form that I got from Linus when I brought this up a week or so ago
05:34:01safetydanWell it's just something you see a lot of in software projects. Rewriting things from scratch almost never goes as well as people hope.
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05:41:43LloreanMaybe we should just chop Apps up into a chart of some sort, and start identifying what's Kludgy or Hackish in individual parts of it?
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05:56:35JdGordonLlorean: or something like a dependancy graph?
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05:59:48LloreanI was thinking something very general, really.
05:59:53LloreanBut either way, of course
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07:18:38scorchehrm...will anyone have issues if i stream the video feed with flash? (as in, does anyone not have a flash plugin for their browser?)
07:19:39JdGordonamd64 linux is about the only people who might have a problem i tinhk
07:20:24scorchei ran across which seems to do what i want
07:30:26ze alleviates amd64 linux issues with flash (and other 32bit plugins)
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09:04:10cropHas anybody here been following the "Rejection of "ignore the" patch" thread in the forums?
09:05:44 Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
09:06:08cropAm I right in the assumption that the feature, when implemented, will only have effect in the DB view, not in the file browser?
09:06:48markuncrop: I think you are right
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09:09:00cropmarkun: ok. I'm asking because I never use the DB and rename the folders to achieve the desired sorting (e.g. The Beatles is renamed to Beatles; in the tags it's stilll The Beatles)
09:09:31LloreanIf I recall quite some time ago it was decided the alphabetical sort for the filetree should always be based on exactly what the file is named, rather than trying to grab a substring.
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09:09:51LloreanIn fact, I think that the original rejected patch, the first one, was for the filetree.
09:10:01cropLlorean: yes, I assume the same and hence rename the files/folders
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09:10:25LloreanBut yes, if/when this thing is implemented it'd be a database-only feature.
09:10:44cropMainly folders since the files are named as nn_title, where nn is the track number
09:10:59amiconnI wonder why this seems so important for some people.
09:11:25cropamiconn: in order to find the songs where you expect them to be?
09:11:44amiconnIf they start with 'the' I would just look under 'the'
09:11:50*Llorean agrees with amiconn
09:11:57*petur too
09:12:07markuncrop: I do the same
09:12:54Lloreancrop: Although, I've been one of the most vocal on the thread.
09:13:08LloreanBut that's because I really can't stand behind an idea that's pretty much broken.
09:13:12markunamiconn: would you look for "prodigy" or "the prodigy"? They use both names.
09:13:15cropI'd expect to find "The Beatles" under "B" (like this is e.g. in music shops). But it's just a matter of taste/education/...
09:13:17amiconnThere are corner cases, e.g. several versions of a song where one starts with 'The' and the other does not
09:13:58amiconnI would just look in both places when in doubt
09:14:19cropSo I decided that for me, in my collection, The Beatles go to B
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09:15:37amiconnmarkun: The both-names issue only exists for track names imo. For artists it's a tagging consistency issue of one's own collection
09:16:13markunamiconn: consistent with the original CD or with one of the 2 you have chosen?
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09:17:46markunI really like the idea of the sort order tags. That way I can the guy calling himself "µ-Ziq" (greek 'mu') under 'm'
09:19:02*amiconn doesn't like the idea of sort order tags at all
09:19:28*markun doesn't care much about which features amiconn is not going to use as that consists of almost all of rockbox
09:19:39amiconnI'd rather want to have proper collation... I know that's a resource problem
09:20:01amiconnmarkun: Heh, that's not correct
09:20:29markunimo the sort order tags and proper collation are two separate things
09:21:42markunI think it's just a hack to work around the broken collation with sort order tags in the database
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09:21:46amiconnFor instance, the german '' (a umlaut), '' (o umlaut) and '' (u umlaut) would have to be sorted like 'a', 'o' and 'u', respectively. Right now they all go after 'z'
09:23:22markuncrop: do you think that "David Bowie" will be under D of B in a store?
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09:23:51amiconnWell, if I'd have to choose between sort order tags and ingnoring 'the', I'd choose the former though
09:23:56Lloreanmarkun: I suspect it depends on which store you go into.
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09:24:39markunI would probably look under B
09:24:42amiconnWhile I don't really see the need for them, leaving out arbitrary parts of a string for sorting is nasty
09:25:03LloreanAs far as I'm concerned, "ignore the" is just broken as long as we try to claim support for multiple languages.
09:25:57CaT[tm]personally, I tried doing that with gtkpod and hated it. I thought of 'the beatles' and immediately went for T.
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09:28:35amiconnLlorean: Yes, and just ignoring 'the' doesn't solve the problem even for english as markun pointed out
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09:35:52GodEater_I'm personally in favour of putting the sort tags in - although I'd probably never use them as I don't touch the database.
09:36:00TimHey folks - I've just installed rockbox on a 1st gen ipod nano
09:36:02Timnow I
09:36:14Timheard that you can get it to keep playing when charging
09:36:26Timbut I can't find any info on that in the manual
09:36:33GodEater_Tim: hold "menu" when you plug in the usb cable
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09:37:16TimFantastic, thanks :)
09:37:30TimAlso, is there any way to customise the main menu?
09:37:40TimLike, remove items I'm not going to use from it
09:38:01GodEater_Tim: alter the source code, rebuild yourself a custom rockbox
09:39:01Timnods thought that'd be the case :) I'll look in to that.
09:39:28TimIt's a fantastic player - I'm really pleased with it :)
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09:40:08GodEater_glad you like it
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09:59:14cropmarkun: sorry, I was a bit off. I'd expect to find David Bowie under B of course. And I name my folders "Bowie, David"
10:01:01markuncrop: what about "Art Blakey" vs "The Art Blakey Quintet"? :) The first under B and the second under A?
10:04:44Lloreanmarkun: Clearly it's "Quintet, Blakely, Art, The"
10:04:53markunof course :)
10:05:07crop markun: :-) You ask hard questions! My general strategy is that I sort by the last name, if it's the name of a person. I also ignore 'the' (e.g. my folder is 'Alan Parson's Project'). Other cases are handled individually.
10:06:21cropIn every name, I (probably) have a piece that the name is assotiated with (just for me). "The Art Blakey Quintet" would probably go under A.
10:07:16markunshould we put all of our examples in the 'ignore the' thread?
10:07:17cropSince it's not a name of a person, and "the" is ignored (for sorting, not in the tags)
10:07:22markunjust to confuse them a little more :)
10:07:36cropOr in the wiki
10:07:37GodEater_I don't think we need to :)
10:08:01GodEater_once the sorting tags go in to svn people can sort on whatever the hell they choose - and we don't have to care
10:08:07LloreanI think everyone, even those in favour of "Ignore The", agree that it's somewhat broken in many circumstances.
10:08:17LloreanTheir argument is just "The convenience outweighs the brokenness"
10:08:31LloreanSo trying to further prove it's broken doesn't do much good. :)
10:08:38markunGodEater_: the 'left to WPS' guys also became very quiet after we added the main menu
10:08:50GodEater_Llorean: I think you meant "convenience, the"
10:08:55*Llorean grins.
10:09:16GodEater_and of course "brokeness, the"
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10:11:03cropYes, I also think that the sort tags will allow everyone to achieve the goal "ignore the" and a lot more, and in a very elegant manner
10:11:14*markun agrees
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10:11:43markunand it doesn't meen we shouldn't have better collation too
10:12:00cropmarkun: what software do you use for tagging? I use MediaMonkey but I haven't seen sort tags there.
10:12:35markunI use some scripts together I made which use vorbiscomment and vim :)
10:12:50cropAh, I forget all the time that it's only for the DB so it will be of no meaning for me :-/
10:13:21cropSo I'll stick with my current modus operandi
10:13:40TimI have a dumb question about menus:
10:13:43Timwhy is the "up a level" button the back button, and not the "menu" button?
10:13:46Tim(on the ipod)
10:13:55linuxstbTim: Because it makes sense...
10:14:03linuxstbMENU is used to enter and leave menus
10:14:15markunTim: I think it was like this on all targets before we did the ipod port
10:14:21Timit makes sense on paper,
10:14:21markunis it different in the ipod firmware?
10:14:34linuxstbTim: It makes sense if you don't use Apple's firmware.
10:14:48Timthe problem is that if I'm in the WPS, and I go into the context menu, then want to get back to the WPS
10:14:59TimI want to hammer the "up a level" button
10:15:00linuxstbThen MENU should do it
10:15:02Timbut if I do that
10:15:13Timthen it'll change song
10:15:17Timif I press it too much
10:15:43markunipod button layout is weird :)
10:16:16Timhehe, yeah, it sounds weird
10:16:20linuxstbHmm, MENU from the context menu doesn't leave the menu, but takes you to the main menu instead...
10:16:27Timbut I think they've put a lot of thought into it
10:16:31Timyeah, it's
10:16:43markunI don't think it should
10:16:55Tim(uh, that last line should read without the "it's")
10:17:08linuxstbTim: You can also press PLAY to leave the context menu and take you back to the WPS (PLAY takes you to the WPS from most places)
10:17:34TimOn the apple firmware, back + forward are always player commands
10:17:39Timthe center button selects
10:18:03Timand the menu button brings up the menu from WPS or goes up a level if you're already in a menu
10:18:29Timlinuxstb: so it does, thanks :)
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10:20:04linuxstbTim: If you can think of a better button layout that gives users access to all the features in Rockbox, plus is as consistent as possible throughout the different screens, please try and document it.
10:20:25TimI'll have a think about that, and will do :)
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10:20:35GodEater_Tim: note that this does not mean "copy Apple's firmware" :)
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10:20:50Timhehe, yes :)
10:21:26TimI switched to rockbox because apple's firmware is good, but not quite right for everything I want to do
10:21:34*GodEater_ is discovering new ways to control Rockbox on a daily basis, and has been using it for nearly two years. He doesn't think it'll be an easy job.
10:21:49pondlifeSo many contexts.... ;)
10:22:14GodEater_esp. the context menus on the main menu items. That one was a complete curveball for me yesterday.
10:22:32GodEater_genius idea though whoever thought of it
10:22:49TimI also noticed that there's no consistant way to exit plugins
10:22:51pondlifeJDGordon I think
10:22:58pondlifeVery useful, I agree
10:23:05GodEater_our dyslexic / bad typing little genius
10:23:27JdGordonlinuxstb thoghht of it... I just implemented it
10:23:33pondlifeTim: There should be, wherever possible... but many haven't been updated
10:23:45pondlifeOn another topic, am I correct in thinking it's a big no-no calling /apps code from /firmware code...?
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10:24:04Timok. What's the 'standard' way to exit a plugin?
10:24:08pondlifeHmm, bang goes my fast responding keyclick
10:25:30pondlifeTim: I would guess the STOP button (on my H300 at least)...
10:25:44pondlifeBut it probably depends on which device.
10:25:58GodEater_trouble is some of the plugins require a lot more controls than others
10:25:59pondlifeOn H300 - STOP = exit, generally
10:26:04XavierGrwhat? since when menu items have context menu???
10:26:06GodEater_you run out of ways to call exit
10:26:07pondlifeSome require a menu to be used.
10:26:13GodEater_XavierGr: welcome to the party :)
10:26:26XavierGrRockbox still surprises me after 2 years...
10:26:31pondlifeXavierGr: Try it, very useful for database updating and access to playback settings
10:27:02XavierGrwhen was it commited I dont remember anything about it
10:27:10GodEater_Tim: I think that highlights the mountain you've got to climb if you're going to rethink the control mechanism :)
10:27:36GodEater_XavierGr: look at the logs yesterday, linuxstb asked the same question
10:27:41*GodEater_ doesn't recall the answer though
10:27:47JdGordonXavierGr: august I tihnk
10:28:08GodEater_hahaha - it's been there nearly a year, and I only just found it!
10:28:09XavierGractually it is awesome
10:28:27*GodEater_ needs to read "MajorChanges" more often
10:28:35XavierGrand yeah pitty that I didnt know about it before
10:28:47XavierGrI wonder how I missed the commit message
10:29:29XavierGrlike a pure Rockbox-aholic the first thing to do when I get to the PC is check the Rockbox frontpage for new commits
10:29:29JdGordonno, april... not august
10:29:55JdGordonstupid months sarting with 'a' :p
10:29:56GodEater_ah - that's an obvious type then JdGordon :)
10:30:05GodEater_oh the irony
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10:30:12pondlifeOf all the words...
10:30:18XavierGramiconn: have you uploaded your vmware image anywhere?
10:31:11XavierGrmine has dpkg broken since I did the stupid thing to remove the info folder without having a backup
10:31:15bospaadjeTim: in plugins where 'back' (or through a menu) doesn't work, it's mostly menu+select
10:31:41bospaadjesee the manual for detailed info on all available plugins, including button mappings
10:32:07TimGodEater_: heh. Yeah... I'll have to play around with it a bit more. At the moment it feels like it could be improved for the ipod, but it's possible that I just need to be more used to it.
10:33:10Timbospaadje: thanks, I'll remember that :)
10:33:12bospaadjethe only problem with ipod buttons i have currently is that the hold button doesnt switch off properly (i have to scroll first before any buttons work after switching hold off)
10:33:14GodEater_Tim: I suspect the latter
10:33:50GodEater_the ipod suffers from nearly the least number of buttons (I think only Ondios have less)
10:34:29GodEater_it's certainly the only RB target I've used which uses the concept of "press, hold, hold even longer"
10:34:37bospaadjethe current mapping is pretty good, considering the small number of buttons
10:34:53bospaadjeindeed, though the 'hold even longer' one gets annoying sometimes
10:35:04GodEater_markun: have you come up with a decent use for the "speaker" button on the GB remote yet ?
10:35:36linuxstbEnable/disable text-to-speech ?
10:35:57GodEater_that'll be a good use when we have that working :)
10:36:17TimI think the problem I had with it is that the menu is very hard to get used to coming from the original firmware (this may not be a problem)
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10:38:33bospaadjeTim, i needed some time to get used to that as well
10:40:32TimI'll keep quiet 'til I'm more used to it then :)
10:42:01GodEater_Tim: It would be quite difficult for rockbox to be familiar to everyone coming from an original firmware, since they all work differently on different manufacturer's daps
10:43:29amiconnXavierGr: I have no big enough space to upload it to
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10:44:48TimGodEater_: I agree. Especially as different players have different concepts - and sometimes it's new concepts that you actually want from rockbox (the standard ipod doesn't let you queue or insert songs in the middle of playlists, for example)
10:45:46GodEater_or any of the other gazillion features rockbox offers over the original firmware :)
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10:46:33amiconnGodEater: Where does the ipod use the concept of 'hold longer' (except for power down)?
10:47:05amiconnShort and long press were invented for the Ondio, btw
10:47:13XavierGramiconn: dcc?
10:47:27GodEater_amiconn: only for power down that I know of
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10:48:06XavierGramiconn: or better ftp if you have a server up on your machine
10:48:29amiconnAnd whether the ondio or the ipod has fewer buttons depends on how you count
10:49:01GodEater_amiconn: I only caveated the Ondio because I don't actually own one, so wasn't sure :)
10:49:16XavierGramiconn: or you could uploade the image to Bagder to put it in the wiki and then we can all get it
10:49:22JdGordonanyone want to have a quick look at a patch to turn more debug screens into lists?
10:49:50JdGordonand I'm not sure what the bin delta would be if I commited... would it be OK to commit, then revert if its too red?
10:50:46pixelmaGodEater: you could have compared the drawings in the manuals ;)
10:51:59GodEater_pixelma: I could - but I'm inherently lazy :)
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11:01:52amiconnGodEater: The Ondio has 6 buttons. The iPod has 5 buttons plus scroll fwd/back
11:02:03B4gdergood reading
11:02:10amiconnAnd power down being an even longer press is common to most targets
11:03:45markunGodEater_: it will probably be the 'menu' button and long-play for 'stop' like llorean suggested
11:05:54pondlifelol - just noticed the logo for DevConWest
11:06:05pondlifeDid the "proper" DevCon get one?
11:07:01linuxstbpondlife: Where is the logo?
11:07:16pondlifeTop of the home page
11:07:16linuxstbAh, on the home page...
11:07:24scorchepondlife: yes it did
11:07:32pondlifeI must have blinked
11:07:51*pondlife thinks about Dr Who again
11:07:58scorchegood show, that =)
11:08:10pondlifeThis week's one was particularly good
11:08:24pondlifePossiblly the best one I've ever seen - including Tom Baker era.
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11:09:28scorchepondlife: dont go near any gargoyles...
11:09:56pondlifescorche: I removed a statue from my birdtable already
11:10:24pondlifeThey went all out to scare the kiddies I think!!
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11:11:18scorchewhen they had the light going out in the basement...that was scary =) ....i like how they did the transcript and the dvd though
11:11:46pondlifeYes. It's about time they made more plot use of time travel.
11:11:52pondlifeNo pun intended
11:12:32pondlifeBack on topic, anyone know if it's possible to monitor the mic on an H300 during playback?
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11:14:43markunB4gder: yes, nice read indeed
11:14:48linuxstbpondlife: I believe so - preglow has been talking about effects plugins forever that would make use of that.
11:14:49markunincluding some of the comments
11:15:27pondlifelinuxstb: I was dreaming of a simple "clap" control... One clap for skip forward, two for stop...
11:15:45pondlifeA pipe dream?
11:16:09linuxstbIt would make you look crazy on the bus though...
11:16:24pondlifeHah! I already look crazy on the bus.
11:16:32B4gderbtw, I threw in a comment to the Neuros N3 people that rockboxers might be interested if they just pick publicly documented hw
11:18:05linuxstbIt seems unlikely to be anything other than DM320 though, from what little I've read.
11:19:10linuxstbCurious idea for "lossy FLAC" over at HA -
11:23:12markunlinuxstb: now you can't even trust a flac file to be lossless anymore :)
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11:24:06scorchewhat makes that so when people have transcoded lossy files into flac files in the past?
11:24:19Journeyis this the channel for developers?
11:24:28scorcheJourney: we only have one channel
11:24:50preglowpondlife: might even be possible in an ordinary plugin right now, if plugins can control playback
11:24:59linuxstbmarkun: What scorche said (and it's discussed in the thread) - you have no idea about the source WAV that was encoded to flac.
11:25:12linuxstb(unless you encoded it yourself)
11:25:32GodEater_does anyone know an easy way of switching between a standard library and it's debug version when building with gcc/make ?
11:25:38scorchewell, you can also trust it if a log file is included as well
11:25:56linuxstbscorche: Not really - the CD could come from a lossy source.
11:25:58preglowhow does anyone expect rockbox to be able to cancel noise?
11:26:11scorchelinuxstb: yeah...i thought of that right after i hit enter ;)
11:26:25pregloware there headphones with mics near the actual speakers?
11:26:45scorchepreglow: there has been people wanting to play doom3 on the ipod as well...not a far off departure, really
11:26:58Journeygreat :) I downloaded the source code, but the docs don't seem to tell much about what tools are used to compile it, and which processors each build is meant for. What would I need to be able to compile assembly level code for a particular player?
11:27:01linuxstbpreglow: Thinking about the "dc bias" patch, wouldn't that break lossless decoding?
11:27:21JourneyI think it's GCC, but that's about as much asd the docs say
11:27:46preglowlinuxstb: how would it do that?
11:27:56Journeygreat thanks
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11:28:48linuxstbpreglow: I misunderstood, ignore me...
11:29:32markunlinuxstb: ah, it's the Replay Gain guy
11:29:36preglowbias should only be added if shifting is needed at all, if it isn't, then nothing extra happens, if shifting is needed, then this will just further enhance the output we have now, even from lossless codecs
11:30:10preglowi'm just waiting to hear jhMikeS' further output on the coldfire asm code before commiting
11:32:33amiconnThis 'lossy flac' idea sounds odd
11:32:55amiconnDropping the bits below a certain level would increase quantisation noise afaiu
11:33:21preglowwell, if all there is there is noise...
11:33:29preglowthen you're just changing the shape of the noise
11:34:30amiconnBut for the worse, I think
11:35:31preglowwell, there you go
11:35:32preglowit's lossy
11:35:44preglowthe fact it's changed for the worse should be no surprise
11:36:30*GodEater_ guesses no-one knows
11:36:50*preglow guesses he knows no-one
11:37:58*linuxstb avoids the urge to type "/nick no-one"
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11:47:44LloreanWhat's silly is the people talking about how he should rename it, or how he's "forking" FLAC. I never realized preprocessing your audio before encoding with a separate encoder qualified as modifying the audio. I wonder if I've forked MP3 by transcoding from lossless...
11:48:26LloreanI'll be interested to see what comes of it, at least.
11:49:11JdGordonI have a little problem... the current setting screen code (set_int/sound/bool/option) copies the the setting info from settings_list.c into a smaller struct which IMHO feels a bit mor hacky than it should, So I spent a while cleaning up the code to use the setting_list.c code for items directly, and I tihnk the code looks better, but because of the extra flexibility needed it blew out the bin size by a fair bit...
11:49:29linuxstbLlorean: I think that came from the suggestion of implementing it as an option in the flac encoder.
11:49:41pondlifeJdGordon: A fair bit?
11:49:44JdGordonare we happy with the current code and s scrap the changes...? or are we ok with adding more bin for better flexibility?
11:49:50GodEater_there goes that 20K again
11:49:58JdGordonpondlife: ~1k i tihnk
11:50:09*pondlife was thinking "is a fair bit >= 20k" too
11:50:13JdGordoni cant do preoper checks here. this comp is stuffed :p
11:50:38pondlifeOf course, many targets didn't gain 20k (yet)
11:51:11JdGordonthis extra code will make things like customizable quickscreens, and inline settings ( in the menus) much easier to add
11:51:21pondlifeJdGordon: I would generally vote for simpler code, but it probably depends on the effect on an Archos buffer size.
11:52:29pondlifeDo you know what resulted in the larger BIN? Removing duplicated data should've made it smaller, I'd think... just pointers.
11:53:14JdGordonthe differene was instead of using one struct which had data, we now use the 4 avilable in settings_list
11:53:53pondlifeBut those 4 were already there? So there's extra new code required to look at all 4 parts?
11:54:46JdGordonok, WTF? just did a clea build, then he patched build for h300... -200 delta...
11:54:48JdGordonignore me :p
11:55:00*pondlife ignores JdGordon
11:55:03JdGordonthe e200 build was bigger...
11:55:19*JdGordon has renewed motivation to finish this patch :p
11:55:24pondlifeWhat about Archos?
11:55:26pixelmacustomisable quick screens? The Ondio doesn't have a quick screen at all and I don't really miss it
11:55:50JdGordonmy sh gcc is fubar, and I ran today again and still not correct
11:56:34pondlifeWith Cygwin, I'm stuck on GCC 3.4.4. No good for binsize checking.
11:56:35JdGordonpixelma: it would allow you to put alomost any of the settings on the screen where you want it. (up to 4 settings per screen...) maybe allow different setting for the different quickscreen contexts :)
11:57:53pixelmaon what screen?
11:58:40JdGordonthe quickscreen
11:59:37pixelmaread my first comment again...
12:00:27pixelmathough on my M5 I can reach the quick screen, I still don't use it much
12:00:41JdGordonI read it... on the targets which do have it, it would be great if the settings wernt so bad
12:03:10JdGordonhmm... I'm just thining about which 4 setting I use the most (or would actually want on the QS) and cant think of any ;p
12:03:57pondlifeI would rather the quick screen was select .CFG if anything... Not that I have a problem with the menus as they are.
12:04:18pondlifeI most often select "Car.cfg" or "Normal.cfg"
12:04:43pondlifevia the main menu context menu :)
12:04:45peturgreat idea... I have headphones.cfg and lineout.cfg on mine ;)
12:05:05*JdGordon just has config.cfg
12:05:28peturhave a quickscreen that lists a number of config presets
12:05:46JdGordontat could be possible also
12:07:44pondlifeI suspect that most users have no idea how flexible .cfg files are.
12:08:49JdGordonthey are flexible?
12:08:50LloreanSo, replacing the quickscreen with the "Browse .cfg files" screen might give them incentive to learn. ;)
12:09:18LloreanThe entire menuing system could actually be replaced with a clever directory structure of one-line config files.
12:09:27LloreanI'd say that's "pretty flexible"
12:09:38*Llorean has just solved the customizable menu problem!
12:09:49JdGordonwe would even wi the award for the worlds worst UI if we did that
12:10:00pondlifeAnd support hell!
12:10:09 Quit atsea- (Remote closed the connection)
12:10:10linuxstbAnd disk spin-up hell...
12:10:18LloreanActually, if you did it cleverly, any "list" style menu would look the same
12:11:09peturadd desktop.ini style stuff in them to change the icon
12:11:15*petur ducks
12:11:39*pondlife throws rocks, even
12:11:47JdGordonthe only thing bad about this is localisatio wouldnt work
12:12:12LloreanBah, just distribute zips of localized .cfg files rather than language files. Problem solved. :-P
12:12:39JdGordonbrilliant :)
12:12:43*linuxstb starts to worry about what devconwest will throw up
12:13:13LloreanI promise not to suggest replacing the menuing system with an extensive hierarchy of foldered .cfg files during DevConW
12:13:22peturfrom my experiences in the state, bad beer....
12:13:34JdGordonah, but there is nothing stoping you from actually doing it....
12:13:39pondlifebad beer does get thrown up, yes.
12:13:49LloreanI do *not* however promise not to put together a basic menu hierarchy so that next time someone asks for configurable menus I can point them to a wiki page and say "Try this instead" :-P
12:14:11pondlifeThose people won't care about spin up probably anyway..
12:14:27pondlifeStill has to read the file contents
12:14:30JdGordononly get spinups if you actually change anything
12:14:40peturor read!
12:14:52*pondlife realises there is no such thing as bad beer, only misunderstood beer.
12:14:55peturthe contens of files isn't cached
12:15:09JdGordonpondlife: you havnt had carton light ice then
12:15:37pondlifeLogically, if there is no such thing as bad beer, then if it is bad, it can't actually be beer.
12:15:54JdGordonah.. haha :D
12:16:04pondlifeAnd no, I've not tried it.
12:16:26JdGordonkangaroo piss is the unfortunate subsitute for the heavenely brew tha goes into light ice
12:16:50pondlifeAh, well roo_piss != beer...
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12:17:34*pondlife is enjoying the keyclick thing - anyone else who's a bit blind tried it?
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12:29:25preglowonly reason i want to go to the us is for the beer, heh
12:30:04*petur invites preglow to Belgium. It's closer and the beer is better ;)
12:30:13JdGordonumm.. wtf? since when does the us have good beer?
12:31:24preglowsince craft beers started popping up about twenty years ago
12:31:40*petur walks away for lunch
12:31:51pondlifepreglow: Where in the world are you?
12:31:58preglowno, budweiser and millers still is shit, but now you get stuff like anchor, brooklyn brewery and dogfish head
12:32:02preglowpondlife: norway
12:32:27pondlifeAh, not Canada...
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12:33:50preglownot canada...
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12:40:31Timsooo..... prepares to be pelted with rocks ...I wanna customise the menus a little bit...
12:40:50TimAm I right in thinking that I just need to change the MAKE_MENU calls?
12:41:11Timso they have different things in them?
12:41:14Mode"#rockbox +o preglow " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
12:41:33Mode"#rockbox -o preglow " by preglow (n=thomj@rockbox/developer/preglow)
12:42:00Soapis it "The Ignore" or "Ignore, The"? ;)
12:42:10preglowi wonder why someone haven't done a patch for it yet
12:42:13Tim(in places like apps/menus/main_menu.c)
12:42:16preglowit seems to be popular
12:44:00JdGordonTim: yep
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12:44:57TimJdGordon: Awesome, thanks. Where are the menu names stored? (I don't think I'll want to change them, just curious).
12:47:37B4gderiaudio 7 claims 60 hours runtime and plays flac/ogg in the OF =>
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12:48:03B4gder(8GB flash)
12:48:31B4gderwe haven't started a new port in a while ... :-)
12:48:42TimNevermind, I found it.
12:49:12pixelmapreglow: you mean "ignore 'The', The"?
12:50:28TimWell, there is a group called "The The"...
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12:50:59*preglow gets confused
12:51:04*linuxstb ponders how to sort The A Team
12:51:08preglowB4gder: any hardware details?
12:51:10preglowlinuxstb: hahahah
12:52:14B4gderpreglow: nope
12:52:24B4gderbut it is priced at 229000 won ;-O
12:52:55***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:53:18B4gder"the nose which is ting function, text and image file pyu it equipped."
12:53:24*B4gder giggles
12:53:33B4gderdon't you love automated translations? ;-)
12:53:56*preglow gives up trying to understand anything
12:54:32linuxstbB4gder: That's quite expensive - 246 USD...
12:58:26linuxstbWhat do people think about 90 degree LCD rotation? Is it a wanted feature (if implemented as efficiently as possible) ?
12:59:25pondlifeI would think it useful to do at a low-level. Should be more efficient and resolve numerous other Sansa hacks...?
12:59:37pondlifeKey map rotation is probably the trickier bit.
13:00:09linuxstbRockbox already supports keymap rotation - for the LCD flip
13:00:31pondlifeOK, so that could be extended to 90 degrees too?
13:01:06preglowi don't see any point in any of them, so don't ask me...
13:01:20linuxstbI'm thinking that most of the work for the LCD is already done by the screens API - it uses a set of function pointers for the LCD drawing and lcd_width/lcd_height are variables for each screen.
13:02:09linuxstbSo one option would be a new set of LCD drawing functions that do the drawing rotated, and you just modify the screens API to point to those new functions when rotating the screen.
13:02:43markunlinuxstb: do you want the screen to always be rotated? I think there are people who like the WPS to be rotated on the Gigabeat but not the rest for example
13:02:58linuxstbOr the alternative is to make LCD_WIDTH and LCD_HEIGHT variables in the lcd driver itself, and perform the rotation in lcd_update().
13:03:07linuxstbmarkun: I think it only makes sense to be changable at runtime.
13:04:17linuxstbSo potentially different screens could use different rotations, but I'm not sure if that would make sense. Gigabeat owners need to make more WPSs....
13:04:52linuxstbI remember ipod video/nano owners complaining that all the nice WPSs were for the H300...
13:04:55markunI think the WPS rotation should be separate
13:05:32markunwhat happens to the selected WPS when you want to change the screen rotation because you think that's nicer for browsing through your file list..
13:06:06merbztlinuxstb: probably wont take more then a month before we have a native decoder :)
13:06:50*pondlife thought we already did
13:07:01linuxstbmerbzt: What do you mean by "native" ?
13:07:07markunmerbzt: good news about the range coding!
13:07:24preglowppc native?
13:07:47linuxstbmerbzt: Have you changed nicks to confuse me?
13:07:55scorchejust checking once more, if i were to have the devcon feed in flash, would anyone be excluded around here?
13:08:12preglowi don't have flash :-)
13:08:19markunme neither
13:08:26*pondlife neither neither
13:08:26preglowlivin la vida amd64
13:08:37amiconnI think lcd rotation would open a whole can of worms
13:08:39markunmaybe I could install it through linux emulation
13:08:43scorchehrm...nvm then, i suppose
13:08:57B4gderpreglow: "vivo la vida" if I may ;-)
13:09:37linuxstbscorche: I thought Rockbox was an open source project, promoting open standards? ;)
13:10:00scorchelinuxstb: well, it is an open source streamcast =P
13:10:13B4gderwe only make rubbish anyway
13:10:24preglowshit, if i may say so
13:10:31GodEater_by the bag
13:10:38merbztlinuxstb: merbzt when I'm at work, merbanan at home
13:10:38markuna theora stream with mpc audio or something obscure like that :)
13:10:57B4gder"Seems everyone is too busy implementing rubbish like the demo's and stupid games"
13:10:59merbztlinuxstb: s/native/ffmpeg native/
13:11:01B4gderone of the early favourites
13:11:16pondlifeAh, those demo's
13:11:16linuxstbmerbzt: OK :) Then it's obvious what you meant by native.
13:11:30markunB4gder: I forgot which important things he suggested us to work on instead..
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13:11:49scorchehrm...anyone have an idea how to do an mjpeg stream content?
13:12:11B4gdermarkun: he didn't suggest anything other than "Bye and have fun. I'm reverting to the Archos firmware. I didn't buy a
13:12:11B4gdergameboy and I don't want to take aspirin."
13:12:30*pondlife likes aspirin
13:12:33B4gderwhat fun would rockbox be without the whiners?
13:12:35scorchepreglow: btw, would take care of the flash/amd64 issue, i suppose
13:12:52markunI'm always so sad to see them leave..
13:13:36preglowreally? even with sound? even the native 32 bit plugin running under 32 bit opera doesn't do sound here
13:13:52preglowguess i'll have to try
13:13:54merbztpreglow: the wrapper works for me
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13:20:04JdGordonlinuxstb: screen rotation would be sweet, but it shhuold b done in the lcd driver, not a screen-drawing decision...
13:20:16markunlinuxstb: will you talk to Kostya about the APE decoder in ffmpeg?
13:23:11linuxstbJdGordon: What do you mean by "not a screen drawing decision" ?
13:23:40pondlifeIt should be transparent to the apps?
13:23:45JdGordonI mean, either the whole ui should be rotated, or nothing...
13:23:53linuxstbamiconn: What problems do you see with screen rotation?
13:24:04JdGordonI might have misread though, but you mentioned an exra lcd funcito to draw rotated?
13:24:35dionoeawould that rotation be a compile time option or runtime ?
13:24:37linuxstbJdGordon: Yes, one way is extra lcd functions, but the apps/ code doesn't need to know about them - it continues using the screens API.
13:24:51pondlifedionoea: runtime, I hope
13:25:07linuxstbCompile-time rotation is trivial - there's already a patch for it.
13:25:18dionoeaso all the LCD_HEIGHT / LCD_WIDTH related macros in plugins and stuff would need major changes, no ?
13:25:29JdGordonlinuxstb: that would limit it to only the drawing which actually uses the screen api. in the driver it would work much better
13:25:46linuxstbdionoea: plugins are a separate issue. I'm just thinking about the core for now.
13:26:14linuxstbJdGordon: But all the apps code (including plugins) _should_ be using the screens API...
13:26:27JdGordon_should_ being the important bit there...
13:26:29JdGordonalot doesnt
13:26:48linuxstbI know - implementing rotation would mean finishing the screens API transition, at least for 100% of the core.
13:26:53JdGordonactually... no im getting confused
13:27:21pondlifelinuxstb: Are there older UI APIs we could scrap too?
13:27:55linuxstbI don't think so - the apps/ code needs to stop calling the lcd driver directly, and go via the screens API.
13:28:08linuxstbBut the screens API uses the lcd driver functions, so no code can be removed.
13:28:32preglowany news on gigabeat s, btw?
13:28:54B4gderpreglow: we expect the devconwest guys to have the port done by sunday! ;-P
13:29:02preglowdamn straight!
13:29:08preglowand to hell with them if they haven't
13:29:15scorchepreglow: there was a bit today, i believe.,..check #gigabeat 's log
13:29:47scorchewell, toffe had some emergency work, so he might not be coming till later =/
13:30:08preglowhe does surgery on people as well as gigabeats? :>
13:30:13amiconnlinuxstb: The fact that width and height become variable. Lots of places aren't prepared for that. Also, how would you handle stuff like wps positioning, or backdrops?
13:30:14JdGordonhehe new logo :)
13:30:40linuxstbamiconn: That's my point about the screens API - lcd_width and lcd_height are variables there.
13:30:52amiconnYou cannot handle everything in the screen api
13:31:06scorchepreglow: it was a tomato emergency, actually
13:31:58preglowtomatical emergency
13:33:08amiconnAlso, how would the lcd framebuffer look like? Some plugins (have to) use that directly...
13:33:38JdGordonand other nasty stuff like buffer allocation...
13:34:04linuxstbThe framebuffer would change format depending on screen orientation. Plugins would need to explicitly set an orientation.
13:34:17linuxstbBut the framebuffer is obviously still the same size....
13:35:02linuxstbI agree it's not straightforward though, which is why I'm asking if people think it's worthwhile...
13:35:18linuxstbBut I don't think any of the issues are unsolvable.
13:36:27JdGordonthe framebuffer isnt the only buffer which is allocated by the LCD_WIDTH or HIEGHT
13:36:45JdGordonand some might only use one of them, so the bffer would change size size
13:37:11linuxstbIf they only use one, then you define it as MAX(LCD_WIDTH,LCD_HEIGHT)
13:37:16dionoeamaybe you could bundle lcd rotation code with memory allocation code :D
13:37:39JdGordonlinuxstb: thats no good for static buffers....
13:37:47preglowhow does one make twiki not try to make alink out of a camelcase word?
13:37:47linuxstbBut I'm not aware of many buffers like that.
13:38:06JdGordon1337 if you must...
13:38:20B4gderpreglow: <nop>CamelCase
13:38:37JdGordonhe patch for the gigabeat rotation makes a new define REAL_LCD_WIDTH and REAL_LCD_HEIGHT doesnt it? tha could wrk
13:39:28preglowjust cleaning up the gsoc page to remove all stuff that was accepted this year
13:39:33 Quit safetydan ("Konversation terminated!")
13:39:34Soapthough if after the no-link header "−−++!!
13:40:00Soapyou need a space before the ! to prevent WikiWord autolinking
13:40:15Soap−−++!! !NoLink
13:40:18Soapfor example
13:40:25Soapnot ==++!!!NoLink
13:40:31*B4gder 's brain hurts
13:40:42Soapoops, not −−++!!!NoLInk
13:42:46linuxstbJdGordon: How could that help? In my mind, you would keep LCD_WIDTH and LCD_HEIGHT as the real dimensions of the LCD, but their use would be forbidden in calculating display positions etc.
13:43:31JdGordonlinuxstb: for buffer allocation. yeah, they would have to be off limits for screen positioning
13:43:32linuxstb(which it already is via the screens API to a large extent - there isn't much use of LCD_WIDTH/LCD_HEIGHT left in apps)
13:44:04Soap(I keep messing up) three dashes and a plus is top level heading, two plusses is second level heading, three is third level etc. putting two !'s after the plusses prevents the heading from being in an auto-created Table Of Contents. If you are trying to prevent auto-linking to a WikiWord you need a space between the !!s which prevent TOC creation and the ! which prevents WikiWord linking.
13:45:22JdGordonpondlife: adding talking got the patched h300.iriver larger than the svn one :(
13:45:41pondlifeJdGordon: Much larger?
13:46:03pondlifeJdGordon: Do you mean for your settings simplification?
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13:46:55pondlifeHmm, simpler shouldn't be bigger.... any idea why? Can't you re-use any more existing lookup code?
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13:47:52pondlifeAnd are the structures memory-aligned sensibly?
13:48:10JdGordonwill look for more optimizing when its actually finished
13:48:48preglowanyone gotten their gsoc shirts, btw? :)
13:49:13B4gderJdGordon/pondlife: can't it be the "nls-effect" ?
13:49:40JdGordonit just might be
13:49:42dionoeapreglow: you get them at the end of the project i think
13:49:44markunpreglow: not yet
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13:50:16FebsBagder, could the "iPod Video" and "iPod Video 64MB" links on the current build page be renamed "Ipod Video 30GB" and "iPod Video 60/80 GB" respectively?
13:50:31B4gdernot a bad idea
13:50:33FebsI think it would clear up a lot of confusion among users as to which build to download.
13:51:05FebsWe're seeing a lot of this in the forums:
13:51:23JdGordon! when was the 64mb build added?
13:52:46B4gderJdGordon: 3 weeks, 4 days ago
13:53:28JdGordonrigh about when all the build server problems started again... conspiracy anyone?
13:54:11pixelmaBagder: since the introduction of the rockbox-info.txt there is an error message at the end of building a pdf-manual "rockbox/manual/platform/ Command not found" - any ideas?
13:54:56pixelmait doesn't make the build fail, it's just a bit annoying...
13:54:57B4gderFebs: try now
13:55:06SoapFebs, how about naming the 32MB one "iPod Video 30/60/80" or "iPod Video All" it's not clear the 64MB version is always ideal for 64MB targets.
13:56:14B4gderpixelma: puzzling... I'll need to work on that
13:56:17FebsB4gder: I like it. Soap: I didn't realize there were any disadvantages to using the 64MB build on the players that support it.
13:56:58SoapFebs: it appears to add very little (if any) to runtime, and those runtime tests were performed under a situation perfect for taking advantage of the larger buffer.
13:57:09linuxstbFebs: If you skip a lot, a lot more unrequired buffering will happen compared to the 32MB build.
13:57:28Soapif people skip tracks they are wasting the disk reads used to fill the large buffer, and _probably_ incurring a greater cost.
13:58:37preglowworkout time
13:59:35pixelmaB4gder: if this observation helps any... when I tried to track it down yesterday I started with a checkout from right before, then updated step by step and the error didn't occur until I started to reconfigure and make clean - so I had to went back and clean up for every revision I tried
14:00:16Soapbut w/o putting an ammeter in-line I don't know how to calculate the cost/benefit
14:00:53Febslinuxstb, soap: couldn't you then reduce that argument to its extreme and say that for people who skip a lot, Rockbox should only load the currently playing song onto the buffer?
14:01:50Soapwhy not? If you are a user who is constantly dumping buffer contents you should probably use a small buffer.
14:02:13FebsIt seems to me that the build chart should contain only one option for any given platform.
14:02:21B4gderwell, there's a punishment to spin up the disk as well
14:02:39linuxstbFebs: I'm not strongly convinced by my own argument anyway.... I think for the sake of simplicity, we should rename the builds "ipod video 30GB" and "ipod video 60GB/80GB" (assuming we still assume the 30GBs all have 32MB)
14:02:42B4gderskip with a larger buffer will just skip data, not necessarily spin disk
14:03:22linuxstbAlthough maybe the manual could be used to describe the actual differences in the builds.
14:03:28GodEater_Febs: did you see the map I posted last night ?
14:03:32Soapit won't necessaritly spin the disk, but by skipping data in the buffer haven't you effectively wasted the power used to fill that skipped area of the buffer?
14:03:56FebsGodEater: Yes! It looks like we'll be close by.
14:04:16FebsI also got the impression that you approve of my choice of hotel.
14:04:21GodEater_Febs: yep - definitely walking distance, but only if you're not scared of getting lost
14:04:31GodEater_Febs: yes - most Hilton's in London are nice :)
14:04:49Shaid*insert Paris Hilton jail joke here*
14:04:52B4gderFebs/GodEater/linuxstb: if you feed me with your preferred tshirt sizes and a postal address to one of you guys, I'll contribute something to your meeting
14:05:06GodEater_B4gder: that's very kind of you :)
14:05:14GodEater_XL for me :)
14:05:18FebsGodEater_: I travel constantly for work, so I have accumulated many, many Hilton points and I'm now taking advantage of them.
14:05:30FebsB4gder: L for me. Thanks!
14:06:07GodEater_B4gder: do you already have linuxstb's address ?
14:06:18linuxstbB4gder: Probably a L for me as well...
14:06:33B4gdernope, no address here
14:06:38*GodEater_ feels fat now :)
14:06:53GodEater_ok - I'll volunteer to bring them then
14:06:54linuxstbB4gder: I'll PM you my address (assuming I've been volunteered to act as postman)
14:06:58pixelmaZagor must have had linuxstb's address *remembers* waffle iron ;)
14:07:00linuxstbOK, then GodEater...
14:07:10B4gderpixelma: assuming he kept it...
14:07:23linuxstbGodEater: I work from home most of the time, so maybe it's easier for me?
14:07:38GodEater_linuxstb: we have a porter - but if you prefer :)
14:07:44*GodEater_ isn't fussed
14:07:54linuxstbThen make use of your porter.
14:08:19linuxstbIf you see him wearing a Rockbox shirt one evening, you know the plan has failed...
14:08:48GodEater_or that he's secretly been to a devcon ?
14:09:06B4gder_that_ is a failure too
14:09:55*GodEater_ had been wondering how to do the "red carnation" routine for the meet, and now he doesn't have to
14:10:21 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
14:10:30FebsYou just need to make sure you're the first one there.
14:10:50GodEater_that won't be tough
14:10:58linuxstbGodEater_: Do you have a pub in mind?
14:11:04GodEater_not so far
14:11:14GodEater_what's the drinking preference ?
14:11:18GodEater_Pimms or Beer ? :)
14:11:31*linuxstb likes
14:11:35FebsBy the way, my wife will be with me, and her only request is somewhere will decent food.
14:11:54GodEater_how decent ?
14:12:17FebsJust decent enough that we can make a meal of it.
14:12:24FebsDoesn't have to be fancy.
14:12:59GodEater_we should be able to accomodate that
14:13:19GodEater_linuxstb: beerintheevening claims there are 1546 pubs near Farringdon tube station...
14:13:25GodEater_that's a heck of a pub crawl
14:13:27JdGordonyay, back under svn size
14:13:29*Febs googles "Pimms" ...
14:13:47GodEater_Febs: v. traditional summer beverage in the UK
14:14:57*GodEater_ refines search with "pool table" and "serves food"
14:15:02pondlifeAnd a sure way to get drunk slowly by accident
14:15:13GodEater_pondlife: very true =)
14:15:19GodEater_or perhaps %) is more accurate
14:15:35FebsI'd probably be drinking beer. Mrs. Febs doesn't drink, so not an issue for her.
14:16:07*GodEater_ takes issue with beerintheevening's idea of "close"
14:16:24GodEater_Southwark, Islington, and St. Pancras are not "close" in my world
14:17:00pondlifeThat's almost my side of London.
14:17:19pondlifeAnyway, time for lunch
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14:25:07JdGordonanyone interested in testing a patch that fiddles with the setting code?
14:25:27*JdGordon getting sick of having to fix code after is cmmited :p
14:30:41B4gderNeed to get 296MB of archives.
14:30:42B4gderAfter unpacking 586MB of additional disk space will be used.
14:30:56B4gder... this is just to get the rockbox manual to build ;-)
14:34:22GodEater_good lord
14:34:32GodEater_that's a lot of tools!
14:35:30GodEater_linuxstb: :
14:37:10*GodEater_ is sad to see London isn't in the top 15 happiest cities :(
14:39:22JdGordonget to work then....
14:39:29JdGordonthe site is horribly slow though
14:40:54*GodEater_ prefers pintsearch on reflection - there are more london pubs on it
14:41:01GodEater_not surprising really though
14:41:41 Quit Febs ("ChatZilla [Firefox 2.0/2006101022]")
14:49:15JdGordon:'( data abort on the player, wrks fine in the sim
14:52:52peturrearranging structs?
14:53:00***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:55:21JdGordonlast time this happened it wasbecause I as trying to access a bool like an int, but checked that and its correct
14:57:23chrisjs169__is FS6860 (some kind of battery status handling for the Sansa) still worth using?
15:00:42JdGordonbah, misuse of bitmasks...
15:04:17linuxstb:) I think this person needs to be offered a refund -
15:05:57JdGordonhaha <−− for the international / curious crowd :)
15:06:31GodEater_my word - he's a bit upset and no mistake
15:07:46B4gderfriendly chap, we should invite him to rockbox
15:07:49JdGordonI thought my mum was the only person who drank pimms!
15:08:05JdGordondoesnt he do by the name dongs?
15:12:35 Join TrueJournals [0] (
15:17:34JdGordongrrrrrrr! still data aborting :'( no idea why there is a problem now
15:18:21JdGordonalso, no idea why it crashes on the play selected first setting, but its fine on the party mode setting, both are setup exactly the same way in setting_list.c
15:18:46 Quit spiorf (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
15:19:57chrisjs169__Is FS6860 worth using?
15:21:54JdGordonwasnt most of it commited?
15:22:30JdGordonah no, diffrent patch
15:22:57JdGordonah no.. it was commited
15:25:50markunlinuxstb: wasn't the FLAC code the one which emulated OO in C?
15:28:03 Join spiorf [0] (
15:30:21JdGordonnothing wrong with a ncie healthy dose of faked OO...
15:30:46B4gderit's not faked
15:30:49amiconnJdGordon: You cannot access a bool as an int. On arm this will crash in 75% of all cases, as a bool is a single byte there
15:30:58amiconnHowever, you shouldn't rely on this mapping
15:30:59B4gderyou can do OO in C you know
15:31:18JdGordonamiconn: yeah, I gues thats whats happening, just trying to find where
15:32:51markunB4gder: well, from the fact that flac went from one of the slowest to one of the fastest codec by switching to the ffmpeg code I figured it hadn't been done in a nice way
15:33:04markunbut maybe the OO part was not to blame, I don't know
15:33:13B4gderI remember the code and I still wake up screaming at times... :-)
15:41:38linuxstbmarkun: Yes, that's the one...
15:47:56pondlifehehe...can we also have a wonderful change of our shit?
15:49:39 Join Arathis [0] (
15:54:53chrisjs169__JdGordon: (ah no.. it was commited) - so that patch isn't needed?
15:55:36pondlifeSo couldn't it be closed?
15:57:01pondlifeActually it looks like it wasn't committed
15:57:18 Join ratamary [0] (n=ratamary@
15:57:24pondlifeLooking at powermgmt.c it still has the pre-patch values
15:57:51 Part ratamary
15:57:59 Quit Arathis ("Bye, bye")
15:58:12pondlifebattery_cal01.patch is missing, at least.
15:58:28 Join Arathis [0] (
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16:00:25 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
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16:01:57webguest24the rockbox ports.. r they for both Wintel and Apple versions?
16:02:24 Quit Entasis (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:02:30TrueJournalsIf you have a mac-formatted iPod, you will have to convert it to Windows-formatted first, but yes
16:02:49TrueJournalsno problem
16:02:49 Quit webguest24 (Client Quit)
16:16:11linuxstbmerbzt: I've now posted a comment to that blog entry.
16:21:05preglowalways the talk about beer
16:21:43peturgot triggered? ;)
16:21:54preglowgot back from a workout, then see talk about beer
16:21:56preglowi hate you!!1
16:22:18peturit wasn't me
16:22:41pondlifeSorry preglow
16:22:50preglowwhen's your london meet on?
16:22:52peturwell not all me
16:22:58pondlifeHey, you did your workout - you earned your beer ;)
16:23:26pondlifeLondon meet is July 11th I think
16:23:44preglowbeh, i might be in england, but that'll be later in july
16:23:55pondlifeI'll be in England, but probably not in London.
16:23:56preglownot too far from london either
16:24:08pondlifepreglow: Not west of London?
16:24:20preglowi'll be in the vicinity of gillingham/chatham
16:24:32preglowan hours train from london, so i'd come if i were in england at all, heh
16:25:00pondlifeSuppose I'm only 30 mins train from London, but another 30 mins across London to the meet.... will consider it.
16:25:11pondlifeBut I'd only get drunk and rant about APIs....
16:25:27preglowi wish i could see anything bad in that
16:25:42pondlifeWork on Thursday?
16:25:57 Part TrueJournals
16:26:07preglowme? what?
16:26:24preglowoh, right
16:26:27preglowit's on a wednesday :>
16:26:58pondlifeAll my weekends are booked until August anyway
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16:40:42B4gderbut hey, I'll throw in a shirt for you too if you go there ;-)
16:42:36GodEater_are the shirts able to cure hangovers ?
16:42:43B4gderoh yes
16:42:45 Quit JdGordon (Remote closed the connection)
16:42:51GodEater_no problem then :)
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16:48:26linuxstbI thought that was what the mugs were for (when filled with black stuff).
16:49:09GodEater_Guinness you mean ? :)
16:49:13linuxstbIndeed :)
16:49:14GodEater_damn, preglow beat me
16:49:15preglowsurely you don't mean that coffee cures hangovers
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16:50:19linuxstbGodEater_: Did I mention that I would be upset if you chose one of the few pubs in London that didn't sell Guinness?
16:50:30GodEater_you didn't, but I shall bear it in mind
16:50:34GodEater_normal or extra cold ? :)
16:50:54GodEater_I guess you *won't* be drinking Pimms then
16:51:03linuxstbI always ask for "normal", just because the pub I go to never has any...
16:51:12linuxstb(but the tap is there, claiming it)
16:51:47preglowthe extra cold guinness tastes tap water
16:51:49preglowso don't go for that one
16:52:07preglowi tend to be sceptical to any beer that is "extra cold"
16:52:22GodEater_I liked that "Arc" lager you could get in London a few years ago
16:52:29GodEater_most places don't do it anymore :(
16:52:49preglowbut then again, i'm not your run-of-the-mill person either
16:53:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:53:10GodEater_it was the only lager I've ever seen that needed *infrastructure* to pour
16:53:57GodEater_the barrels were kept at below freezing temp, and the lines to the pump at the bar were pressurised to stop the beer freezing on route
16:54:08GodEater_and then the pump itself had a little turntable you put the glass on
16:54:21GodEater_which span it whilst freezing cold water was sprayed on the glass to cool it right down
16:54:32linuxstbSounds economical...
16:54:51preglowguess why it's not around anymore
16:54:54GodEater_and as the beer left the nozzle, there were tiny ultra-sonic emitters which made ultra-fine ice crystals appear in the beer it poured
16:55:07linuxstbAnd how much was a pint?
16:55:08GodEater_so the top inch or so of the glass you got was like beer slush puppy
16:55:17GodEater_about £4.50 ;)
16:55:30GodEater_*so* worth it though
16:55:37GodEater_just to watch the whole process was fun
16:55:42linuxstbAnd the secret was that the barrels were filled with Fosters...
16:55:55GodEater_while I cannot disprove that theory
16:56:07GodEater_it was *claimed* the beer had to be super strong for it to taste of anything at that temp.
16:56:16GodEater_certainly got me drunk v. quickly
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16:56:40preglowso you get the lovely taste of alcohol with your slush
16:56:44GodEater_which I guess made it worth the price :)
16:56:51GodEater_you only had to have two to get legless
16:57:03GodEater_I seem to spend a lot more than £9 in an evening these days :(
16:57:27preglowthat's bloody nothing compared to what i have to spend :///\\\\///
16:57:29 Quit jac0b ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
16:57:54GodEater_you in sweden too ?
16:58:05preglowso almost
16:58:06GodEater_ah - never been
16:58:15GodEater_is beer the same ludicrous price as your neighbours ?
16:58:15preglowit's hell if you like beer
16:58:22preglowit's worse by a very fair margin
16:58:30GodEater_that's fairly impressive
16:58:33GodEater_I thought Sweden was expensive
16:58:34preglowlets see
16:58:53preglowyour standard price for half a litre (if you're lucky) of stock bland lager is about 50-60 nok
16:59:08preglowaround 5 pounds
16:59:10*GodEater_ is unaware of gbp->nok exchange rate
16:59:17GodEater_ah thanks
16:59:22amiconnpreglow: whoa
16:59:27preglowamiconn: whoa indeed
16:59:54GodEater_me wonders where his employer keeps their internal exchange rates...
16:59:56preglowif you want anything more fancy or something with more alcohol in it: it'll be more expensive, again by a fair margin
17:01:12GodEater_considered moving ? :)
17:02:08preglowthe day i am because of beer prices, i'll consider checking into some clinic
17:02:08*petur recommends .be :p
17:03:01preglowwell, they say belgium and the us are the best beer countries
17:03:12GodEater_whoever says the us is no beer drinker
17:03:12preglowgb not being too far behind
17:03:21preglowi say so, and hell yes, i am
17:03:30preglowus has _tons_ of nice beer
17:03:38preglowand there's absolutely lots and lots of it
17:03:41GodEater_shame they choose to flood the world with Budweiser then
17:03:46preglowand no, i'm not talking about budweiser and millers :)
17:03:56GodEater_thank god
17:04:00GodEater_or Coors I hope
17:04:01The-Compilera mate of me has a problem: Nothing happens if he presses i in the sansapatcher
17:04:14preglownone of the light untastable lager stuff, no
17:04:28GodEater_actually, I had a nice-ish US beer the other day, "Brooklyn Lager" or some such
17:04:31GodEater_was pretty nice
17:04:36GodEater_never had it before though
17:04:56preglowGodEater_: that is pretty nice, yes, you should taste brooklyn black chocolate stout if you like dark beers :>
17:05:12GodEater_if I could find somewhere that sold it - perhaps I would :)
17:05:20preglowbut yeah, brooklyn breweries is one of the guys making good beer in the us
17:05:20*pondlife gets deja vu.
17:05:39pondlifeDidn't we already use up our OT beer conversation for today?? ;p
17:05:49*preglow looks at the ot gauge
17:05:53preglowturns out we did
17:05:59pondlifeShe's gonna blow!!
17:06:06 Join Rob2222 [0] (
17:06:13*preglow goes for dinner
17:06:20*pondlife apologises and goes back to work.
17:06:46*GodEater_ continues fighting with websphere
17:10:16GodEater_websphere loses
17:11:05markunlinuxstb: I don't see your comment in his blog.
17:12:27 Join desowin [0] (
17:14:15*GodEater_ wonders which blog is being talked about
17:14:37 Join tedrock [0] (
17:17:56linuxstbmarkun: Maybe it's moderated
17:18:55*linuxstb too slow
17:21:21 Quit jgarvey (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
17:21:44 Join jgarvey [0] (
17:22:17*GodEater_ sees linuxstb's comment
17:22:19 Quit Rob222241 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:22:42markunme too now
17:24:07pondlifeMmm, right justified...
17:25:27 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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17:50:36 Part rift_
17:52:51preglowanyone know if svn commit can append the commit info to a file, ala ChangeLog?
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18:02:25pondlifeHmm, Flyspray isn't mailing me when a watched item has a comment added.
18:03:00n1spondlife: checked your spam filter?
18:04:46tedrockwith the rockbox utility i can choose archived build or current build
18:04:53tedrockis archive the same as daily?
18:04:59n1stedrock: yes
18:05:07tedrockk. then i shall keep installing that everyday
18:05:12pondlifen1s: Yes
18:05:38n1spondlife: hmm, it works for me... has it just recently stopped working for you?
18:06:05pondlifeI just noticed one today ...
18:06:50 Quit Arathis (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:07:01markuntedrock: usually current is just as stable as the archived build
18:07:40tedrockmarkun: how often is current updated?
18:08:16markuntedrock: every time someone makes a change to the source code
18:09:50tedrockthen what is the difference!
18:10:34GodEater_current can be as many as ten revisions behind
18:10:35markunthe archived build is only built 1 time per day
18:10:43GodEater_we get a lot of commits a day
18:10:53markunGodEater_: no, current is always up to date
18:11:04GodEater_I meant archived ;)
18:11:07GodEater_silly me
18:11:12*GodEater_ goes back to his corner
18:11:42tedrockso which should i be installing, current or archive
18:11:50markuntry current
18:12:08GodEater_yeah current
18:12:08 Join Nico_P [0] (
18:12:08*tedrock screams
18:12:13markunand if it crashes your player you can always try archive :)
18:12:21tedrockgood plan
18:12:22GodEater_or wait till the *next* current
18:13:12tedrocki tried to play a mpeg on my player yesterday. real tears came to my eyes... they were not tears of joy
18:14:36*petur wonders why people insist on trying to look at video's on tiny screens
18:14:50*GodEater_ finds it an odd thing to do as well
18:14:51tedrockbecause i like to watch it at work
18:15:01tedrocki USED to tihnk it was a dumb idea
18:15:18tedrocki was like "i'll never get one"
18:15:59 Part TrueJournals
18:16:07GodEater_when I watch at work, I use my monitor.
18:16:30tedrocki cannot
18:17:10tedrocki use an emac at work as well they blocked youtube, google video and you cannot mount external devices like ipods
18:17:41*GodEater_ is pretty much a domain admin at work and can do what the hell he likes :)
18:17:48peturtedrock: sounds like they should ban devices that can play video too
18:17:53 Part kaalo1
18:17:56tedrockthey kinda have :P
18:18:09peturwork is for working, you know...
18:18:26tedrocki work for AppleCare
18:18:29krazykitsilly petur. who does work at work?
18:18:38tedrocksometimes there is 5-10 minute wait between calls. i get bored
18:19:17peturdo something constructive with spare time
18:19:23*GodEater_ does work at work. He's good at multi-tasking.
18:19:32tedrockwell i tried masturbation but apperently that's frowned on
18:19:48tedrockso i don't play THOSE vidoes at work anymore
18:20:44 Part david1
18:20:48tedrocki just watch video podcasts on it anyway. i don't download TV shows or movies for it
18:21:00tedrockdo you know what it's like to watch a movie in 5 minute intervals?!
18:21:10krazykitchoppy and confusing?
18:21:24tedrockvery confusing. i gave up after a bit
18:21:29*GodEater_ still recommends the OF for movie watching on the ipod video
18:21:57krazykitoriginal firmware
18:22:00tedrockyah id o that
18:22:04tedrockthat's how i watch my podcasts
18:23:02tedrocki'm really enjoying the database and how you can make your own filters for it so rockbox is mostly taken over for my music part of my ipod
18:23:35tedrockone thing. does the database update on the fly. so if i have a list called "unplayed" as soon as i play a song from it and it finishes does it get removed?
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18:26:20tedrockyou guys are gonna make me test to find out aren't you
18:26:42krazykitisn't that the most fun way to find out?
18:27:19tedrocki donno, do you remember being a child and finding out for the first time the stove is hot?
18:27:41krazykiti learned quickly not to do that again.
18:28:05tedrockor that superglue is NOT a good lubricant
18:28:17krazykiti never had a misconception like that.
18:28:26tedrockyou're lucky
18:28:41krazykitor just reasonably intelligent?
18:29:09markuntedrock: you can have it update on the fly, but you need to enable that and also need to have 'dircache' on for it to work
18:29:36tedrockok i'l do that now
18:30:36tedrockis that under database?
18:30:45markunit should be
18:30:52markunif you can't find it check the manual
18:31:16n1stedrock: general settings -> system -> disk
18:31:33tedrockn1s: are you the interactive manual?
18:31:54tedrocki wish you'd guys put a searchable manaul on the device. would be useful
18:31:54n1stedrock: when I'm in the mood :-) I did write a good portion of it
18:32:58tedrocki already had it on :)
18:33:15tedrocknot that you really care
18:33:39netmasta10bthow would i know which version of the BL i have on my e200
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18:45:11tedrockhrmm. is it a known issue that rockbox dies if you connect your ipod to USB while it's off or sleeping?
18:45:41tedrockfor volume it will show a -22 which i notice at startup but normally changes to the triangle
18:45:59 Join Tunster [0] (
18:46:17Galoisold versions of rockbox had no problem with that, but sometime in the last month I noticed too that it dies if you plug it in while it's off
18:46:37Tunsterhi everyone
18:46:39Galoishowever I am not sure if a bug report has been filed or even if it's considered a bug
18:46:53tedrockyah. i just have to reset, unplug and then plug it in while it's on and active
18:47:14tedrockwindows will say the device is unrecognized or something too
18:47:25Tunsteras much as there's not much more info since April about the Nano 2nd Gen port, have there been anymore developments?
18:47:41GaloisI mean, IMO the previous behavior where it resets your config settings if you plug it in with the hold switch on is definitely a bug
18:48:05tedrockwoah. never experinced that
18:48:24Galoisthey claimed that was intentional, because it's a failsafe way to reset your config settings
18:48:41Galoisbut it used to make me accidentally erase the settings all the time, just by plugging it in with the hold switch on
18:48:48The-CompilerHow can I start the original-firmware on a sansa?
18:48:54tedrocki had a really bad install before this one. it would freeze everytime i paused a song. but i used the utility now and it's never had an issue... unless i'm usin ghte XBOX theme
18:48:56Galoishowever, it doesn't do that anymore, it just crashes, so in that sense I consider it an improvement
18:49:14tedrockGalois: yah i would consider it an improvement
18:49:42Galoisyou can still reset your settings on purpose just by turning it on with the hold switch off, and then changing the switch quickly to on before it boots up
18:50:10GaloisI'm happy with that, since it's impossible to do what I just described by accident, whereas it is very possible to plug it in with the hold switch on by accident
18:50:51tedrocki flip the whole switch when starting it up but htat's to got to OF so i guess i do it early enough it's not an issue
18:53:08***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:55:39 Nick chrisjs169__ is now known as chrisjs169 (
19:00:53 Join tostada [0] (
19:04:16 Join maffe [0] (
19:04:53 Join Hayward [0] (
19:05:02Haywardcan some1 help me
19:05:27 Join obo [0] (
19:06:20krazykitHayward, only if you ask the question first
19:06:34 Join My_Sic [0] (
19:06:36 Join guyzmo [0] (
19:06:46Haywardwell i have tried putting a video on my ipod and each time i play is i cant see all of the video
19:06:58Haywardi have used both 4:3 ratio and 16:3 ration but nothing
19:07:00Haywardany ideas
19:07:03guyzmoI got a "can't find rockbox.ipod" error on boot
19:07:16guyzmoand my guess is that I have 2 partitions on my ipod
19:07:29guyzmo(I installed ipodlinux before installing rockbox)
19:07:46*dionoea wonders why the mem function wrappers need to be defined with a macro and not just defined in plugin.h (and inlined)
19:07:52guyzmoam I wrong ? any hints why if I'm wrong ?
19:08:33dionoeais the fat partition the 1st or 2nd one ?
19:08:52Haywardany idea on my prob :)
19:09:28guyzmoPart 0 : Empty 125 MB / Part 1 Fat 32 75GB / Part 2 Linux 500 MB
19:10:22tedrockso i was reading in the wiki that 3.0 will be able to read the track_rating and rating tags/comments. does that mean it will be able to read itunes ratings then?
19:11:12krazykititunes ratings are part of the itunes database, as i understand it... which rockbox does not read.
19:11:41 Part TrueJournals
19:11:42tedrockoh. i thought it was added to the tag. crap
19:12:30krazykitit might be, but since it's an ipod, i assumed they would just do it some silly nonstandard way
19:14:41 Join Siltaar [0] (
19:14:42Haywardi guess no1 can help me
19:15:23SiltaarHayward, about what ?
19:15:41Haywardcant view all of the video i have placed on my ipod
19:15:57tedrockbecause they probably aren't mpeg
19:16:09Siltaarjust someone or no-one entirely ?
19:16:22Siltaarthe video
19:16:31Haywardcan see top half but not all of it
19:16:33krazykitHayward, did you convert them like it says on the wiki?
19:16:46Haywardused mediacoder
19:17:42dionoeaguyzmo: are you sure that you have a rockbox.ipod file on that fat partition ?
19:18:46krazykitHayward, and you've checked the video on your computer to make sure it's 320x240?
19:19:03krazykitor 320x176 for 16:9
19:19:04Haywardi dont think so.. i downloaded it from google videos
19:19:14krazykitno, the one you converted
19:19:55krazykit...can you check?
19:20:06Haywardhow :S
19:20:38dionoeaopen it with a media player on your PC
19:20:57dionoeadoesn't that sound kind of obvious?
19:21:07Haywardi have opened it with VLC
19:21:10krazykitany decent media player should have info on the dimensions
19:21:25dionoeaHayward: look in the stream and info dialog in VLC
19:21:29dionoeait'll give you the dimensions
19:21:48tedrockfile explorer actually will tell you the dimensions under details view
19:22:01tedrockjust everyday windows exploer
19:22:18n1sdionoea: they have to be a macro to allow people to call the api pointer in the plugin whatever they want (which we allow) it could be simpilfied if we required that everyone stuck to rb...
19:22:40dionoeaah ... ok.
19:22:41*amiconn wonders why dionoea is wondering what linuxstb was already wondering y'day ;)
19:22:50*dionoea doesn't read all the logs :)
19:22:53Haywardvideo size is 320 x 240
19:23:25dionoean1s: can you just force people to use the api pointer ? (instead of adding some kind of weird work arround)
19:23:52Haywardso now what
19:23:53krazykitthat's good. that means it's of the proper dimensions, Hayward. and that's the file that's on your ipod? you're using an ipod video, right?
19:24:01 Part mpeccorini
19:24:02Haywardno nano
19:24:11dionoea320x240 is for video ipods
19:24:14krazykitoh, there's your problem
19:24:15dionoeanano screens are smaller
19:24:19n1sdionoea: yes, we can force people, but gcc has a mind of it's own...
19:24:21krazykitipod nano is 176x132
19:24:29Haywardso what can i do?
19:24:48krazykitre-encode them smaller?
19:24:48n1sdionoea: that's why this was required, gcc expects to be able to call these functions everywhere
19:24:58 Part maffe
19:25:03dionoeaoh.... ok
19:25:05Haywardhow can u recode them smaller?
19:25:34Haywardi have mediacoder.. i aint getting anything else
19:26:03 Join Domonoky [0] (
19:26:35krazykitHayward, if you've bothered to read the page, you'd have seen what the ipod nano's screen resolution is. from that, you should be able to tell mediacoder what to do. there also should be an "ipod nano" option in the rockbox plugin.
19:28:37guyzmosorry had a call
19:28:40guyzmodionoea - I do
19:29:02guyzmodionoea - I checked it, and it is in /.rockbox/ as expected...
19:29:12 Join maffe [0] (
19:29:19guyzmo-rwxrwxrwx 1 guyzmo guyzmo 521228 Jun 14 17:12 ZMOPOD/.rockbox/rockbox.ipod
19:31:49Tunsteranyone heard anymore developments on the ipod nano 2nd gen?
19:37:05 Quit Hayward ("Leaving")
19:37:35 Quit petur ("work->home")
19:41:18otihj #debian
19:53:29 Quit My_Sic ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
20:05:51 Join TrueJournals [0] (
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20:07:31 Part kaaloo
20:12:57 Quit ze (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:15:22 Quit Tunster ()
20:16:41*n1s is getting a crash in a function that really shouldn't be called...
20:19:52 Part TrueJournals
20:20:10*n1s curses the simulator
20:21:19n1sit turns out everything works fine on target but gives an obscure segfault in settings.c :-/
20:23:06 Join Arathis [0] (
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20:39:41pixelmapondlife: one problem with your changes to the voice system - the new settings are in no officially posted voice file yet...
20:41:30 Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
20:45:00amiconnn1s: Btw, did you compare plugin performance with -Os versus -O (for plugins where it matters)
20:45:33 Join Llorean [0] (
20:46:43preglowi thought only the core went Os
20:46:47n1samiconn: hmm, no, I didn't but plugins that it matters for usually have their own makefiles (with their own gcc options, right?)
20:47:15n1spreglow: no, the core shares with everything that doesn't use its own makefiles
20:47:48n1swhich is most of the plugins, and for example the nsf codec
20:48:11amiconnMost yes, but not all
20:48:19amiconnmandelbrot is an example that does not
20:48:42n1samiconn, I'll look into it, any good way to benchmark any of those?
20:49:30 Join TrueJournals [0] (
20:49:45amiconnI'm using a quite primitive method to measure mandelbrot performance... maybe I should come up with a better one
20:50:07amiconnI have an idea for a small mandelbrot speedup on coldfire
20:53:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:54:32 Join TTSbox [0] (i=45dfad17@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
20:56:12 Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear)
20:58:16markunpreglow: there is my GSoC guy :)
20:58:22*markun points to TTSbox
20:59:17*n1s stares at TTSbox
20:59:51 Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
21:00:07 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
21:00:08 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
21:00:15*n1s also hopes JdGordon will read the logs and take a look at FS #7310 :-) hint, hint ;-)
21:00:27*Domonoky says greetings to the future hero of the blind rockboxers :-)
21:01:48markunI wonder if he can see our messages
21:03:37preglowour webirc solution is a bit sucky if he can't
21:03:58TTSboxOh I saw this now
21:04:03markunhe has trouble connecting with xchat
21:04:05TTSboxI am trying to set a client
21:04:19TTSboxrather than the web interface
21:04:31 Quit printfXh4 (No route to host)
21:04:38TTSboxit keeps giving this error
21:04:39TTSbox* Looking up
21:04:39TTSbox* Connecting to ( port 6667...
21:04:39DBUGEnqueued KICK TTSbox
21:04:39TTSbox* Connection failed. Error: An established connection was aborted by the software in your host machine
21:05:03preglowdon't think i've even seen that before
21:05:20preglowprobably some firewall stuff or something
21:05:28markunthat's what I thought
21:06:07TTSboxAnd that firewall wouldn't be a problem for web interface
21:06:32preglowTTSbox: no, since you're connecting by port 80 instead of 6667
21:06:45TTSboxOh ok
21:06:55preglowfew firewalls block web access by default
21:06:57markunTTSbox: do you know when GSoC ends?
21:07:08 Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@freenode/staff/gnewsense.ompaul)
21:07:08preglowlate august or something, no?
21:07:14TTSboxso I should go to settings of windows firewall
21:07:22TTSboxend of summer
21:07:32TTSboxjuly 15 is midterm
21:07:45TTSboxend of august is final evaluation
21:07:46amiconnThe windows firewall never blocks outgoing connections
21:07:55preglowwell shit, then i'm on vacation
21:08:07preglowi'll see if i can bring some net access with me
21:08:14amiconnThat is, the one in xp doesn't. Don't know about vista...
21:08:28TTSboxmine is xp
21:08:47obotry port 8000 instead of 6667?
21:10:36markunobo: does the irc server run on that port too?
21:11:22TTSboxI couldn't find where to change it :(
21:12:15markunTTSbox: which client did you try? xchat?
21:12:24preglowjust do /server or something
21:12:37preglowi think that's universal enough to work everywhere
21:13:40 Join Robin0800 [0] (
21:13:56TTSbox* Looking up
21:13:57TTSbox* Unknown host. Maybe you misspelled it?
21:14:51markunTTSbox: try /server 8000
21:16:17peturnettalk ( supports custom irc port
21:16:25 Join Ozgur [0] (
21:16:30preglowand there we go
21:16:32markunha, there he is!
21:16:38markunOzgur: welcome :)
21:17:05markunyou can probably edit the 'freenode' preset to use port 8000 so you don't have to connect by hand
21:17:11preglowso, you guys decided on an engine yet? flite or espeak?
21:17:11Ozgurgood to see you
21:17:21Ozgurwill try now
21:17:33markunpreglow: I think he will use flite and I will port espeak when I have time some day
21:17:39 Join petur2 [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
21:17:51 Quit petur2 (Client Quit)
21:17:52preglowflite sounded better anyway, i think :>
21:18:32Ozguryes certainly... Marcoen must have shown good patience to get used to eSpeak
21:18:56 Join merbanan [0] (n=banan@
21:20:20TTSboxHi Domonoky, yes I would like to see it work on Rockbox too. I myself enjoy listening audiobooks a lot
21:20:34 Quit idnar (Nick collision from services.)
21:20:36 Join idnar_ [0] (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar)
21:21:03TTSboxand I am becoming a rockbox fan in the meantime :)
21:21:48TTSboxNow I will keep only the client and exit from this nick
21:21:52 Quit TTSbox ("CGI:IRC")
21:23:14CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
21:23:14*markun loves eSpeak
21:23:45markunflite can't even read in esperanto! ;)
21:24:19n1sanyone up for a really quick test using a 32 bit sim?
21:24:25markunOzgur: you don't have a rockbox target yet, right?
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21:24:35 Part kaaloo
21:24:35 Quit My_Sic ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
21:25:10OzgurI am planning to get one soon
21:25:19 Part pixelma
21:25:20OzgurI will install an ebay sniper
21:25:26Ozgurand buy one
21:25:45Ozgurf40 seems very good for price
21:26:04Ozgurespecially rockbox giving the ability to show video to its good screen
21:26:04 Join linuxstb_ [0] (i=5343d4aa@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
21:26:07Domonokyf40 is good, but very powerfull..
21:26:25Ozgursome friends here can test it on other targets
21:26:42Ozguri guess I can not limit the power right
21:26:55Domonokyi think not, i dont know..
21:26:59linuxstb_Are you planning on doing low-level (i.e. asm) optimisations?
21:27:03Ozgurmaybe I can try loading extra jobs to the processor :)
21:27:39OzgurI don't have expertise in low-level optimizations
21:27:47Ozguryou mean assembly?
21:27:54markunOzgur: it would make me happy if you bought a F40 :)
21:28:10markunalthough the code will probably not be very optimized that way..
21:28:11linuxstb_Ozgur: Yes.
21:28:22OzgurI think FLite must already have optimisations
21:28:52preglowit's probably very possible to squeeze more out of it, but that's not a first-priority at all anyway
21:28:54OzgurLite means that
21:28:54linuxstb_Ozgur: The F40 is a nice target, but it will spoil you - it's about 3-4 times as fast as most of the other Rockbox targets.
21:28:58Ozgurfor embedded
21:30:02Ozgurif I could have it running before devcon, maybe I could join to test it on other targets
21:30:38 Quit The-Compiler (Remote closed the connection)
21:30:42linuxstb_Isn't devcon tomorrow?
21:30:57n1scould anyone try something on a 32 bit sim? I think I found another "fun" 64 bit only bug...
21:31:01Ozgurlet me check
21:31:30Ozgurtime flies
21:31:35linuxstb_You have a busy night ;)
21:32:11OzgurI was thinking 2 weeks or something
21:32:23markunOzgur: there are always enough people in here to try out your patches
21:33:22n1sanyway just try changing the settings in the clock plugin such as the "show date" setting, it segfaults here...
21:33:33linuxstb_Is the intention to compile flite into the core?
21:34:07Learn1s: H300 has a clock? (All I know is my H140 does not...)
21:34:18amiconnLear: yes
21:34:18peturLear: yes
21:34:28peturecho echo
21:34:55markunlinuxstb_: what do you think? I'm not sure
21:35:00LearI'll give it a try, once I've built the sim then...
21:35:24n1sLear: thanks :-)
21:36:28linuxstb_markun: I'm not sure either....
21:36:56linuxstb_Do we have any idea what the memory footprint will be (code, const data, working data) ?
21:37:23markunI think several MB for flite
21:37:26markunOzgur: do you know?
21:38:26n1smarkun, linuxstb, Ozgur: maybe it could be loaded in the same way as a voice file is?, I mean stean an appropriate chunk of buffer and it's not like you would have both voicefile and tts loaded at the smae time...
21:38:27linuxstb_I guess we could have a dedicated "tts codec buffer" where the tts codec is loaded. If tts isn't enabled, that buffer will just be consumed by the audio buffer.
21:38:53Ozgurit was 6 MB
21:39:31Ozgurtotal program size
21:39:39Ozgurwith voice files
21:39:47Ozgurfor one language
21:40:31OzgurI have seen those games RockBoy
21:40:38OzgurAre they lighter?
21:40:44Ozgurjust curious
21:41:13OzgurAnyhow, I guess most of FLite is voice files
21:41:30Ozgurwrt memory
21:42:25markunlinuxstb_: vs a few 100 kb for espeak I think :)
21:43:00 Join bluebrother [0] (i=aAEr3sYK@rockbox/staff/bluebrother)
21:43:34Ozgurthough I don't understand, it should be 1000 recordings of lenght 1 sec
21:43:38linuxstb_Ozgur: Rockboy is large, yes - it takes over the entire DAP (stopping music playback)
21:44:01Ozgurwith compression it shouldn't take this large
21:44:07Learn1s: No problem here (in Cygwin).
21:44:36 Join Rob222241 [0] (
21:44:38markunOzgur: perhaps you can work on rockboy after you're done with the TTS stuff :)
21:44:41n1sLear, thanks :-) Then I can commit my patch, and not worry about it :)
21:44:41peturnls: and no problem here (linux)
21:44:55n1spetur: 32 bit?
21:44:57OzgurOh i am not into games
21:45:11OzgurI'd rather continue improving something about TTS
21:45:24Ozgurthere will always be improvements
21:45:36Ozgurgames look good though
21:45:38n1spetur: thanks
21:45:41Ozgurto impress people
21:45:47Ozgurabout the power of rockbox
21:45:59markunOzgur: btw, if you have some questions for our blind users: a lot of them are on the rockbox user mailinglist
21:46:15Ozgurthat's goog
21:46:26 Join entheh [0] (
21:46:35OzgurI just became a member to the mailing list too
21:46:48Ozgurwhile reading documentation yesterday found about them
21:48:25 Join otih_ [0] (
21:48:52Ozguryou didn't give me editing right yet for wikis
21:50:10OzgurWhat name is better for my project; TTSbox?
21:50:21OzguriSpeak? :)
21:50:33Ozguror iRead?
21:51:40markunOzgur: you have wiki rights now
21:51:48markunand nothing with i* please :)
21:51:56*n1s doesn't like the i* names either
21:52:53*petur wonders if it will sound like a bag of shit ;)
21:53:06LloreanHow 'bout just SpeechforRockbox
21:53:16markunpetur: it has to if it goes through rockbox :)
21:54:20*linuxstb_ points Ozgur to so he understands the joke
21:54:26n1sLlorean: too easy to understand ;-)
21:54:26Ozgurwhat do you mean? Is there some problems with rockbox sound
21:54:51Lloreann1s: I'm getting tired of RockNoun and NounBox ;)
21:55:20petursome of our users are blind, and some are deaf ;)
21:55:32n1s :-D
21:57:32OzgurI haven't heard the sound of rockbox
21:57:44OzgurI compiled only the UIsimulator
21:58:03n1sOzgur: it can play music :-)
21:58:22Ozgurhow should I run mp3 files on simulator
21:58:33markunOzgur: I don't think there is anything wrong with the sound of rockbox
21:58:33Ozguris there a special directory to put the files
21:58:36tedrockvary carefully
21:59:00 Quit otih (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:59:04n1sin the dir where your simulator is built and installed there should be a dir called archos put them in that
21:59:08OzgurI am no audiophile myself
21:59:15OzgurI won't realise anything :)
21:59:35linuxstb_I think most people think Rockbox sounds equal to or better than the original firmwares it replaces.
21:59:51tedrocki just went through the fun experince of changing to a theme that used a black background with black text
22:00:06markunbut we don't have some special DSP stuff like SRS-WOW which some people seem to like
22:00:30tedrockand by fun i mean utter pain in the ass
22:02:08markuntedrock: well, if you know how, it's pretty easy to reset the settings again
22:02:26tedrockyah but doesn't that reset them all?
22:02:39tedrockthen i like my method better
22:02:48markunif you have your settings perfect it's a good idea to save them
22:02:51markunjust in case
22:02:58tedrockthats not a bad idea there
22:03:07tedrockbetter then smashing it on a rock... i tried taht first.
22:03:43markunthe old smashing-on-rock-reset trick..
22:04:36tedrockyah. should make a wiki article on it
22:04:42tedrockwhat size and shap of rock and such
22:05:22 Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:05:32 Quit Rob222241 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:05:39tedrockwhen is someone gonna make a plugin to let me play WoW on this thing :P
22:06:26*petur finds another deaf user
22:08:30OzgurI copied the file to arhos
22:08:39Ozgurand IUsim finds it
22:08:45*n1s hopes jdgordon reads further in the logs and takes a look at FS #7311 instead of 7310 which is now closed...
22:08:51markunyes, that's the name of the root dir for historical reasons
22:09:05Ozgurbut says "No codec for: <songname>"
22:09:44peturyou did do make install, right?
22:09:53scorcheg'byeeveryone...see you again at the devcon =)
22:10:07peturno, we see you...
22:10:35n1sOzgur: did you do a 'make install' ?
22:10:37OzgurI did make
22:10:46Ozgurbut don't remember install
22:10:57OzgurI guess I did make UIsimulator
22:11:04peturjust do "make install"
22:11:05Ozguror somethinglike that
22:11:59 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
22:13:30OzgurYeah :)
22:13:40OzgurI heard rockbox for the first time
22:13:49Ozgursounds good for me
22:14:07 Join Rob2222 [0] (
22:14:35n1sOzgur: you will have to do 'make install' everytime you build a simulator with changes to either codecs or plugins
22:18:45 Quit pondlife ("disconnected has pondlife")
22:18:52 Quit scorche (" till devcon...")
22:23:39 Part TrueJournals
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22:44:09 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
22:45:01BagderNeuros seems anxious to get us involved in the n3 discussions
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22:48:24preglowmight be interesting
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22:53:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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23:00:20 Quit Nibbier ("bei uns hat noch niemals nicht koana koan durscht ned ghabt")
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23:39:18OzgurI have read how to develop a plugin. Copied the helloWorld c program to a file
23:39:27 Join Llorean [0] (
23:39:40Ozgurnow how do I included that to rockbox source?
23:40:10markunadd it to apps/plugins/SOURCES
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23:41:46 Quit GodEater_ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
23:41:57Ozgurmarkun: that is it? than when I say configure it will add it to the makefile?
23:42:18markunno, just run 'make'
23:44:44Ozgurnot make install?
23:46:03ompaulkind of offtopic kind of ontopic anyone got issues with iaudio h/w chargers going "pop" - iaudio itself is okay but the charger just died
23:51:47 Quit petur ("*pop*")
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