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#rockbox log for 2007-08-25

00:01:19rasheramiconn: Would naming subsequent versions of the same language as $language-[number].voice be acceptable? I'm not quite sure what else to put
00:01:38rasherI'd use $tts_opts, but that might contain god-knows-what
00:02:39 Join donutman25 [0] (n=chatzill@
00:03:56amiconnrasher: No it doesn't. Most engines output nothing
00:04:12amiconnand even if they do, wavtrim would trim it away
00:04:38rasherStrange, haven't seen issues with the linux engines
00:04:55amiconnThe old script checked for VOICE_PAUSE, and encoded a pre-made silence clip
00:04:58rasherOh well, shouldn't be hard to make it a special-case and include the pause from VoiceBuilding
00:05:10 Join andrewg867 [0] (
00:05:14***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:06:41rasheramiconn: What do the \bs mean in MakeVoices.vbs?
00:07:44rasher ATT_de_de.Add "ampere", "amper"
00:07:45rasher ATT_de_de.Add "byte(s?)\b", "beit$1"
00:07:45rasher ATT_de_de.Add "\bdezibel\b", "de-zibell"
00:07:45DBUGEnqueued KICK rasher
00:07:45rasher ATT_de_de.Add "energie\b", "ener-gie"
00:07:45rasher ATT_de_de.Add "\bflash\b", "fläsh"
00:07:47rasher ATT_de_de.Add "\bfirmware(s?)\b", "firmwer$1"
00:07:49rasher ATT_de_de.Add "\bid3 tag\b", "id3 täg" ' can't just use "tag" here
00:07:52rasher ATT_de_de.Add "\bloudness\b", "laudness"
00:07:54rasher ATT_de_de.Add "\bnumerisch\b", "numehrisch"
00:07:57rasher ATT_de_de.Add "\brücklauf\b", "rück-lauf"
00:08:25amiconnregex \b == word boundary
00:08:38 Quit andrewg877 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:08:44rasherAh, wonder if that goes for perl as well
00:08:53amiconnIt's regex standard
00:09:02rasherI love how there are a thousand different regex dialects
00:09:13 Quit yegods ("CGI:IRC 0.5.7 (2005/06/19)")
00:09:58amiconnI didn't encounter many so far...
00:10:20rasherNo \b in Perl regex'
00:10:29rasherAh, yes.
00:10:33rasherJust not where I was looking
00:10:34 Join davina [0] (
00:12:58rasherThe good thing about standards is that there are so many to pick from
00:13:17 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:13:51rasherPHP alone includes two different dialects (perl and POSIX "extended")
00:14:21amiconnMost of the replacements for german are for words which should be pronounced like english, but not all
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00:14:52rasherI'll just includes these as an example for how to include more. I wonder how expensive it'll be to do the matching
00:14:59 Quit H10_007quick (Client Quit)
00:15:24amiconnSome work around at&t quirks (e.g. the last two - if it wouldn't split "suchlauf" into "such-lauf", the engine speaks it "suchla-uf", and that sounds really strange
00:15:25rasherProbably not very, most matches should fail pretty fast. Short strings, strict replacements.
00:15:58rasherI wonder if it'd make sense to continue matching once a match has been found
00:16:49rasherMight be, for example for italian, apparently replacing an "a with accent" (my terminal's broken) with "a'" is useful for some reason
00:17:06rasherAccording to our Italian maintainer
00:17:33rasherMaybe the replacements themself should be yet another switch statement.. eugh..
00:17:38amiconnYes, sure. Sometimes more than one problematic word occurs in a single voice string
00:17:59amiconnThe vbscript always walked the whole list for the specific engine
00:18:04 Join chrisjs169 [0] (
00:18:12rasherI think I'll just do the same. It probably won't take long
00:18:13amiconnThat's why I used a dictionary object - it's very efficient
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00:19:24amiconnSee the 'For Each sKey in oList.Keys' loop in VoiceReplaceStrings()
00:20:23rasherI'm not really sure I need a list at all. Might be slightly nicer reading I suppose
00:20:53 Join FOAD_ [0] (
00:21:21rasherI'll got he lazy route for now
00:23:12rasherI wonder if any of the replacements need the g-modifier
00:23:29 Quit Robin0800 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:24:27rasheramiconn: Where should we look for the pause clip? I'm suggesting we put it in SVN somewhere, but where, exactly?
00:26:16 Quit seablue ("life, death, life, death")
00:26:42amiconnMaybe it makes sense to move all voice related stuff into a sub-dir of tools/
00:27:10rasherMight not be a bad idea
00:29:29rasherNot quite sure I'm quite up to the task of creating a subdir and makefiles and so on though
00:29:49 Quit kk_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:29:55rasherMaybe I could put it in tools/ for now, and leave the cleanup for later?
00:30:22amiconnYes, one step at a time
00:30:44CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
00:30:44*amiconn would call up the Makefile specialists for the Makefile
00:30:52 Quit midgey ()
00:31:15rasherAm I right in thinking that the NOT_USED_ ids should be ignored completely?
00:31:44rasherAnd how about ids that have an empty string as value?
00:32:02amiconnThose don't get voice clips
00:32:17amiconnvoicefont takes care of that
00:32:32rasherokay, but I should skip them as soon as possible
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00:33:37 Quit bdgraue (Remote closed the connection)
00:34:53rasherI'm still amazed that perl requires braces, even for single-line statements. It seems so unlike perl.
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00:38:56 Quit donutman25 ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
00:41:30rasheroops, shouldn't run wavtrim on VOICE_PAUSE...
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00:46:07 Join w1ll14m [0] (i=546851d0@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:46:30w1ll14mhi all,
00:46:46w1ll14mi have a question, can i set the lineout volume ?
00:46:58w1ll14mon a ipod 5g?
00:48:29linuxstbNot unless you change the source code. Rockbox hard-codes it to lineout level (0dB).
00:49:01w1ll14mhmm the lineout is a lot softer than normal volume
00:49:41scorchethe lineout isnt just another headphone jack...
00:49:52w1ll14mi know :)
00:50:10w1ll14mi would like to change it's behavior, that is exactly the same as my jack output, is this possible ?
00:50:12rasherscorche: Except on H1x0 (almost)
00:50:44scorchewell, yeah...on a few devices, it isnt a "true line out"
00:51:06peturheh.. h1x0/h3x0 users complain that line-out volume changes with headphone volume...
00:51:28*linuxstb coughs... option... cough
00:51:35peturI'd say sell the ipod and get an iriver :)
00:52:27linuxstbw1ll14m: It's a trivial change to the source code. In fact, Rockbox used to vary the line-out with the headphone volume, but then it was changed.
00:52:35rasheramiconn: voicefont looks for mp3 files of IDs with the string ""!
00:53:22rasherMy voice file got slightly smaller after I stopped creating those
00:53:30rasher(only 3kb though)
00:54:03linuxstbw1ll14m: Try replacing the zeros in line 353 of firmware/sound.c with l and r - so it's similar to line 351.
00:54:29w1ll14mthanx, i'll have a look in the source :)
00:55:22w1ll14mi've tryed it with the docs of the wm codec thats inside and should be possible route jack to lineou2
01:00:16rasheramiconn: I think the building of bitmaps is related to the "features" .. feature.
01:00:39rasheramiconn: it does a make inside apps/ which probably causes bitmaps to be built, for some reason.. I've no idea what's going on in apps/Makefile
01:00:51rasherLet's blame Bagder_
01:01:05rasherOr perhaps n1s
01:02:49w1ll14malso is dsp also passed to lineout ?
01:03:46linuxstbw1ll14m: Yes - the DSP code processes the audio digitally before sending it to the wm codec.
01:04:11rasherHow about the hardware effects?
01:04:52w1ll14mlinuxstb: thanx
01:05:11linuxstbrasher: I'm not sure, but I expect so. You would need to look at the datasheet.
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01:12:36w1ll14mlinuxstb, where are the pp502x freqs defined ?
01:12:53w1ll14mit seems i can't find them :|
01:14:59rasherOh dear, the voicefile includes all the _SYSFONT_ entries.
01:15:20rasherA good 100 entries which are already present
01:16:35rasherWhat an awful, awful waste of space
01:17:21scorcherasher: how is that web interface for lang files coming?...are people using it to great success?
01:17:54linuxstbw1ll14m: You mean the cpu clock speeds?
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01:18:53rasherscorche: There's been a few patches submitted from it. I'd say that's a good start. Although the recent langv2 rework has produced a LOT of tedious work for translators
01:19:05w1ll14mlinuxstb: yeah, i mean that :)
01:19:51rasherscorche: It does seem to be doing its job fairly well though. I've used it myself a few times for Danish, just to test it
01:20:08linuxstbw1ll14m: See the set_cpu_frequency() function in firmware/target/arm/system-pp502x.c
01:20:20w1ll14mi'll check
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01:22:56w1ll14mok, so CPUFREQ_MAX defines the clock speed ?
01:24:09w1ll14mas we had a CPUFREQ_MAX_MULT to set the 24 / 8 x CPUFREQ_MAX_MULT = clock speed
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01:47:57w1ll14mlinuxstb: i changed the zero's to l and r, now i can change the volume. but the volume that line2 gives me is verry low
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01:50:15linuxstbWhat are you connecting to the line-out?
01:50:37w1ll14mand that's want i want to accomplish
01:50:55w1ll14mor i will have to change some ideas
01:51:00w1ll14malso possible
01:51:27w1ll14mthe main problem is, my headphones are a little to heavy for my ipod.
01:52:07w1ll14mso i ripped a 3 volt speaker set.... got the amp uit of it.... now i'm using my external ipod battery (uses USB) to get this amp powered
01:52:47w1ll14mnow i've made a little box which supplies the amp with power, and supplies the ipod with extra power (original external batteries purpose)
01:53:12w1ll14mand now i want to combine audio and power via 1 cable (thus the dock connector)
01:53:23w1ll14mthe last problem is the audio output
01:53:47w1ll14mbut even this volume i got from lineout2 is not beable to supply a normal amp with music
01:54:34w1ll14mdo you still understand it a little ?
01:55:40scorche"a normal amp" works just fine
01:55:52w1ll14mlet me check again
01:56:03scorchei use a portable amp with my ipod
01:56:13scorcheout of the lineout, i should add..
01:56:30 Quit jhulst ("Konversation terminated!")
01:56:44w1ll14mok, i'm using pins 1, 3, 4 correct right ?
01:57:08w1ll14mfrom dock connector
01:59:27w1ll14mi've used pins 1,3,4 pins 1,2 are the same
01:59:31w1ll14mso it seems ok
01:59:49w1ll14mgot stereo sound, but it's just not loud enough
02:00:46scorchehave you tried to use a proper amp?
02:01:50w1ll14mtrying one now
02:02:08w1ll14mi'm using a different speaker set now :) it's a z5500
02:02:09rasherHrm, looks like the Accessory protocol is reasonably well documented. And Rockbox doesn't support any of it. For shame! But seriously, has no one bothered with it, or is something blocking it?
02:02:25scorchei thought you wanted to drive headphones...
02:02:39linuxstbrasher: No-one has bothered. Step 1 will be to write a serial port driver...
02:02:43scorchethere is a big difference in the power required for speakers vs headphones
02:03:43rasherlinuxstb: Fair enough. Just wondered if anything particular was holding it up. The serial port isn't terribly secret is it? Iirc ipl supports it?
02:03:59 Quit obo ("bye")
02:04:11scorchei *think* they only support 1-3rd gens, but i could be wrong
02:04:33w1ll14mok, i had to set my speakers to 50% to get a little audio.... dsp off etc....
02:04:53scorchedid you see what i just said?
02:05:06linuxstbrasher: No, IPL doesn't support it (on PP502x). I think they do on the PP5002 though.
02:05:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:05:31rasherlinuxstb: Ah, okay
02:05:52w1ll14mscorche: i read it
02:06:20w1ll14mbut as it's a line out, i wouldn't have to turn the speakers up to 50% for a little audio ?
02:06:33scorchemy portable amp drives heaphones quite loud with the dial turned to half...speakers is a whole different matter
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02:06:56w1ll14myeah i mean speakers with an amp :)
02:07:12w1ll14ma logitech z5500 stereo1
02:07:44scorcheyou mentioned your goarl was to drive your headphones, though...
02:07:44w1ll14mwhen i use a normal cd player i use 10 to 20% volume on my amp / speakers
02:08:07scorchebut that is with already amped output going into your amp, correct?
02:08:08w1ll14mscorche, indeed i'm trying but also that is going trough a 'small' amp
02:08:39w1ll14mscorche: no, just a plain old cd player with a normal tulp to jack connection with no amp
02:08:56w1ll14mwithout any amps between the speakers and cd player
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02:13:44w1ll14mvery strange
02:14:29w1ll14mi will do it on a different way :)
02:14:40w1ll14mi'll still use jack....
02:14:51w1ll14mmaybe something is wrong with my lineout ?
02:15:41w1ll14mas it's just much to soft to let a normal amp use this signal without setting him to almost the max volume (amp)
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02:25:09maddlerhello... I tried googling but found no answer... is there something like a "pre-amp" function/plugin/whatever?
02:25:43maddlerif I try to use my Sansa connected to my stereo volume is too low...
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02:29:43w1ll14mfound the problem... it seems my cable is dead
02:29:58w1ll14mshit... well anyways thanks alot for all the usefull help ;)
02:30:09w1ll14mespecialy to scorche and linuxstb
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03:07:10ApooMahahi Lloreanm I need your permission to edit the wiki
03:08:58 Quit witz ()
03:09:40aliaskApooMaha: What's your wiki name?
03:10:31aliaskWait, you've already got write access...
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03:12:53ApooMahai need to edit the wiki and need permission
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03:15:18aliaskApooMaha: Permission? Generally you can just go ahead and edit things... which page are you trying to edit?
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03:27:59 Join xaque [0] (
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03:28:36xaqueHowdy. I am looking to rebuild my ipod video with rockbox. I don't care about anything except music on the device, but I want to know about file structure and such.
03:29:03xaqueAll the interface screenshots that I see on forums and such look nice, I like the themeable aspect.
03:29:17rasherWhat do you mean "filestructure"?
03:29:27xaqueHow is file management and chooing tracks to play. Fast, intuitive, pretty?
03:29:43rasherI'd say mostly the two first
03:29:57rasherAlthough you can set a backdrop and a custom font, so it's not entirely awful
03:30:23xaqueAlso, is it up to me to choose how the files are layed out? Do I just plop files on the device and then let the firmware handle the rest?
03:31:10xaqueWhat kind of file support does rockbox support? ogg?
03:31:14rasherYes. You can also browse by tags, but pure filetree based browsing is possible as well (and always possible)
03:31:41xaqueI could also use the device as a mobile hard drive without too much work then?
03:31:43rasherxaque: You should probably read this:
03:32:02xaquenice link!
03:32:42rasherIt's linked directly from the frontpage actually ("What is Rockbox?")
03:33:01xaqueI must hav skipped the what is. =]
03:35:57xaqueNeat, I think I am going to go for it.
03:36:46rasherHave fun. Check out the manual - it's really a nice piece of work
03:37:02xaqueWill I loose features?
03:37:22rasherCompared to the Original Firmware?
03:38:11rasherSome: Most advanced accessories don't work, video playback isn't as advanced, playback of DRMd music.
03:38:15rasherI think that's about it.
03:38:38rasherBut you can dual-boot, so I wouldn't say it's all that bad
03:39:17xaqueI had ipod linux on my ipod for a while and I hated it. Very young in development is what it felt like. Is this more mature?
03:40:08scorchewhat did you hate about ipl?
03:40:09rasherWithout actually having tried IPL, based on what I've heard, I'd say it definitely is
03:40:21rasherRockbox is built from the ground-up as a music player.
03:40:30rasherAnd it's a fairly old project already
03:40:43xaquescorche: the file browser.
03:40:57scorchewhat did it do that you hated?
03:41:23xaquescorche: seemed laggy and unstable, but that was before I sent my ipod in, so it could have been the device.
03:42:02xaquescorche: it would not refresh the screen when I would go into a dir, like things would move, but it would not refresh the screen to see the new information, just kept piling it on the screen
03:42:33rasherWow, that does sound pretty awful
03:43:00xaqueunusably anoying. I did it several times using the wiki and I am a fairly savy user and each time same thing
03:43:14xaqueI wrote it off as development immaturity
03:43:19rasherRockbox has always been rock-solid to me. I've been using it since it first started playing music on the iriver H120
03:43:57xaquerasher: which build should I go with
03:44:08scorchethe official one, of course
03:44:26xaquescorche: current or release?
03:44:36scorchethere is no release for ipods
03:45:20xaquegood to know.
03:46:23rasherxaque: I'd advise going with the official build as well (but then, both scorche and I are devs). You'll miss out on some eye-candy, but on the other hand, you will be recieving updates as they happen, and it's generally easier to ask for help when you're not running a hacked-up version of Rockbox
03:47:32xaqueunderstood =] is where I am going to grab the firmware. Is this correct?
03:48:13scorchethe manual should tell you everything
03:48:57rasherI don't really know much about the install process on Ipod, but the manual should explain it. You could also test our in-development automagic install utility -
03:49:18rasherAlthough the obvious disclaimers apply since it's still a bit rough around the edges
03:50:03xaquerasher: I would rather do it manually so I know wtf has been done when I am finished.
03:51:26rasherA fair concern
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04:04:19xaqueThat was the most straight forward installation of my life. Props!
04:05:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
04:06:36xaqueIf its booted and I plug it in, will it go into HD mode?
04:07:29 Quit gromit` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
04:07:38rasherNot really sure, but I think so. You can also hold a button to simply let it charge off USB afaik
04:07:58rasherDon't know which button though, might also be the hold switch
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04:09:05xaquerasher: I will read
04:09:25xaqueI will be back in a couple days with my full report
04:12:40EnterUserNamehey any Sansa developers
04:13:00EnterUserNameI installed on a Rhapsody by accident (it has rhapsody at the bottom)
04:13:02EnterUserNamedifferent crol
04:13:03EnterUserNameand it works
04:13:09EnterUserNameis there anything that doesnt work on it?
04:13:25EnterUserNameOr is the theory "Some models are regular e200 true?"
04:14:24aliaskEnterUserName: Does the original firmware have a rhapsody item in the menu?
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04:15:13EnterUserNameIts engraved on the alumibnum
04:15:14EnterUserNamelet me see
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04:16:28EnterUserNamedoesnt look like it no it doesnt
04:16:46EnterUserNameIt doesnt have that. But it says rhapsody on the aluminum and the sscroll bar is different
04:16:49EnterUserNameso weird
04:17:30 Part pixelma
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04:19:09xaqueWhere do I put my music?
04:19:17xaquein .rockbox or not?
04:19:32scorcheanywhere you want (although we dont suggest putting it in the .rockbox folder)
04:19:45rasherxaque: Anywhere but .rockbox, pretty much (although you can, it's not a good idea)
04:19:57scorchethe most common practice is to make a folder named "Music" in the root
04:20:01xaqueis there a place that is designated for it in the .rockbox folder?
04:21:00rasher.rockbox is hidden during normal operation, and used only for stuff internal to Rockbox (this includes codecs, plugins, themes, etc)
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05:44:12ZionNethi all
05:44:30ZionNetis there a way to port rockbox to other processors?
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05:47:05scorcheZionNet: what do you mean?...other units?
05:47:17ZionNetother cores like rockchip
05:47:21scorcherockbox already runs on multiple types of processors
05:47:37ZionNetso far rockchip isnt supported yet
05:48:06ZionNeti'll try to port it
05:48:24ZionNeti mean i'm finding a way
05:49:02scorchewell, just the processor isnt likely to be the only will likely be porting a new device?
05:49:21ZionNetmost probably arm9 based
05:50:15scorcheyou will likely want to read the wiki page NewPort if you havent already
05:52:03ZionNeti havent use rockbox before
05:52:11ZionNetbut is it based on it's own kernel?
05:52:35ZionNetor rockbox has a own kernel?
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06:13:38hidden212greetings fellow 'boxers
06:19:22hidden212what ways can there be to attract more developers to the rockbox project?
06:21:18 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
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06:24:51hidden212i was thinking of advertising
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06:27:25*scorche "hrm"s
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06:30:42donutman25why was dircache disabled for the sansa e200?
06:33:20EnterUserNamehow hard is it to develop for it
06:33:23EnterUserNamei only know basic c and c++
06:33:29EnterUserNamefrom computer programming anayslsis course..
06:33:42EnterUserNamei want a .MOV player :
06:35:06EnterUserNameHow do i compile for the SAnsa
06:35:11EnterUserNamewheres the documentation
06:35:25scorcheon the wiki
06:35:33EnterUserNamehrm im probably too dumb to code :)
06:36:32EnterUserNamehow smart do u have to be :)
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06:36:58scorchethere isnt a definitive answer...
06:37:35EnterUserNamehrm i guess i should loo at hwo to unbrick a sansa
06:37:37EnterUserNamebefore starting..
06:38:41 Quit donutman25 ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
06:38:45EnterUserNameScorche: how do i find the documentation i tried compile
06:38:46EnterUserNameand sansa
06:39:00 Quit iamben (Remote closed the connection)
06:39:01scorcheyou searched the wiki for compile and didnt find it?
06:39:12 Join iamben [0] (
06:39:36scorcheand you arent going to brick your sansa by messing with the has a bootloader
06:40:40EnterUserNamewhat compiler do u use
06:40:41EnterUserNamefor rockbox
06:40:44EnterUserNamefor sansa
06:40:51scorchethat is all in the instructions ont he wiki
06:41:11EnterUserNameim on Build Your Own rockbox
06:41:40scorcheyou are looking for SimpleGuideToCompiling
06:42:13EnterUserNameDoesnt seem to be there..
06:42:39EnterUserNameFound it
06:42:44scorchei can see it just fine
06:42:49EnterUserNameYa i searched for simple
06:42:55EnterUserNamenothing came up.. searched for compiling it came up
06:43:57EnterUserNameWhy do i need CYGWIN for linux?
06:44:11scorchei dont know...why would you?
06:44:22EnterUserNamefor windows only
06:44:40EnterUserNameis there a unix help :)
06:45:16 Quit ddalton (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
06:45:26scorcheeverything besides the dev environment should be directions for linux
06:45:41EnterUserNameya im trying to find out whats the Chipset for sensa
06:47:00EnterUserNameis it the elf one
06:47:18scorchethere is no elf chipset
06:47:22EnterUserName?erk m68 through those links that are on the page i linked you
06:56:35EnterUserNamethanx scorche found it.. im trying to use crossdev with gentoo first before the custom script that comes with rockbox to compile for u.
06:56:40EnterUserNameHopefully it works :)
06:57:16scorchei am not familiar with crossdev, so i cant say anything about that...
06:58:21EnterUserNameahh tgheres a wikilink for that
06:58:22EnterUserNameha ha
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06:58:56EnterUserNameu guys still use gcc 3.4.5??
06:59:15ddaltondon't know what my version is but it isn't the latest.
06:59:26ddaltonwhat os are you using?
06:59:38EnterUserNameim following the instructions uinder Gentoo(CrossDev)
06:59:43EnterUserNamei was jsut going to do crossdev -t arm-elf
06:59:46ddaltonso linux?
06:59:50ddaltonor something else?
07:00:06ddaltonwell I think you just need to run
07:00:07scorcheEnterUserName: use to get your crosscompilers
07:00:25ddaltoni mean
07:00:31EnterUserNameBut whats that about gentoo crossdev?
07:00:58ddaltonit installs all of the compilers needed to compile rockbox i think.
07:01:19scorcheEnterUserName: as i said those pages i linked you to
07:01:25ddaltonhey how do you run sh files in linux just out of quriosity.
07:01:50ddaltonsame as an exe file?
07:04:37ddaltonhey that is a cool script.
07:04:53ddaltonso when I get my linux machine I just need to run that file and I am done?
07:05:02ddaltonand somehow instal subversion
07:05:29scorchethe wiki tells you what you need to install
07:07:44EnterUserNameo where are some small things that need to be done in the code...
07:07:50EnterUserNameif i were to.. umm.. play around with it
07:07:52ddaltondoes anyone here use emacs as there editor?
07:08:28ddaltonwell I started off with something simple it was a time patch but I am blind so I am only interested in the voice.
07:08:33ddaltonand a couple of other things.
07:08:42ddaltonmaybe plugins if you aren't blind.
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07:10:48EnterUserNamesigh i need a faster computer
07:10:58*EnterUserName disappears to community
07:16:24ddaltonanyone want to commit p6138?
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07:42:11ddaltonI have about 15 patches here. I have a text file saying what order they should be applied in. So how should I put this on fly spray. I can't work out what patches need other patches.
07:56:49ddaltonis it ok if I upload a text file to the tracker saying what order to apply the patches in? If you use them all.
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08:41:23linuxstb_ddalton: If you can't separate them, then yes, post them all to the same task. But it would be preferable if separate patches (or small sets of very closely related patches) were on their own task.
08:41:42linuxstb_Regarding the text file, just copy and paste the contents into a comment - that will be easier for people to read.
08:49:36ddaltonlinuxstb_: I have about 18 patches here. However I can't tell what patches require other patches. Do you know what I should do?
08:49:54ddaltonI could easly make one big patch but that will never be committed.
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08:50:31ddaltonAnd I have a patch called talk_file but it applies fine with out any patches but if I apply other patches it doesn't work.
08:53:29linuxstb_Can you put all the patches in a zip file and put them on a website somewhere? I can have a quick look at them now to see if I can make sense of them, and maybe other people can help as well. It sounds like they need to split up.
08:53:55ddaltonyep ok
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08:58:32ddaltonOk I have uploaded the patches. Could you please have a look. ddalton/patches.tgz">
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09:05:49linuxstb_dalton: Some of them will obviously work by themselves - e.g. shorter-hover_delay.patch, say_empty_dir.diff (I think), quick_screen.diff. You could start by testing those patches (and see if you can see any others) individually to see if they work.
09:07:08linuxstb_One problem will be different patches that add new strings to english.lang. The patches won't apply cleanly if you apply them out of series, but they are easily fixed by hand.
09:07:12ddaltonhmm going to be a lot of work.
09:07:34linuxstb_Of course - you can't process 18 separate patches in 5 minutes...
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09:08:06ddaltonWell I will make them compile together and then I will go through each patche and see what it needs.
09:08:10ddaltonwhat do you think?
09:09:21linuxstb_I would try and treat them all as independent patches, and try to get them committed individually. Maybe choose two or three you think are the most useful, and deal with them first. Then carry on...
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09:12:08ddaltonjust a quick question. I am getting into programming especially rockbox. Will a 10 gb hard drive do?
09:12:16ddaltonusing linux?
09:12:37linuxstbWill you be installing a GUI, or just using the command-line?
09:12:42linuxstb(they're separate in Linux)
09:13:12ddaltonok I will do that with those patches. I might make talk_file work with them all and then work on each one separatly. Because I want to use them all.
09:13:32ddaltonand then I will make a couple work by themselves and submit them
09:13:46ddaltonjust the command line
09:15:00linuxstbThen 10GB will probably be enough.
09:15:28ddaltonok how much room will I have for all my files once linux is up and running?
09:16:29linuxstbI don't know. But I wouldn't expect a no GUI Linux install to be more than a couple of GB, probably less. I've never really paid attention...
09:16:48ddaltonok and how long would that take to build rb do you think?
09:17:04ddaltona clean build
09:18:39linuxstbIt depends how fast it is...
09:19:20ddalton256 mb ram 1.33 ghz cpu pentium 3. What do you think?
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09:20:53TiMiD[FD]hi there
09:21:30ddaltonwould that be faster than cygwin?
09:21:41linuxstbddalton: I would only be guessing, but maybe around 5 minutes (or less).
09:21:56amiconnrasher: around?
09:22:04ddaltonok that sounds pretty good. I might look into that machine.
09:22:11ddaltonin getting it.
09:28:56ddaltonhow do I delete a file in linux?
09:30:29ddaltonok and will that work for a dir?
09:30:52ze'rmdir dir' if its empty, 'rm -fr dir' to delete the dir and its contents
09:31:15zecareful with rm -fr, it'll instantly remove anything you tell it
09:31:23ddaltonand how do you rename something?
09:31:47zerenaming is just moving something to a new name, so it uses mv (which moves things, in general)
09:32:08ddaltonok thanks.
09:32:45zeand tab-completion is your friend, if you're not acquianted :p
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09:51:00ddaltonif I want to do the NickServ thing how do I enter my password?
09:51:39amiconn/ns identify yourpassword
09:52:00amiconnThe /ns is just a shorthand for /msg nickserv
09:53:36ddaltonok thanks it worked
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09:53:55ddaltonI sent my password to nickserve so don't know who got but I did it now.
09:53:59ddaltonwith the right one
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09:54:28amiconnYes, a /whois ddalton now tells me you're identified
09:54:28peturddalton: better change it, then...
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10:12:23peturheh, for a moment I thought Bagder had changed the default webclient name to 'enterusername' :)
10:14:58ddaltonhow do I change it?
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10:18:22peturddalton: /msg nickserv set password
10:19:13peturddalton: see also /msg nickserv help
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10:20:23ddaltonactually that is the one I entered. maybe it is ok let me see.
10:20:26ddaltonthat name
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10:21:34amiconnHmm, that iram optimisation probably applies to a couple of other places in dsp.c
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10:37:51ddaltonis anyone interested in committing p6138? and p7647 because p6138 requires p7647
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10:41:51TiMiD[FD]would there be any legal problem to call a plugin tetris ?
10:42:09Bagdervery much so
10:42:12scorchethey already threatened us for "tetrox"
10:42:29TiMiD[FD]eh ?
10:42:32TiMiD[FD]really ?
10:43:01TiMiD[FD]ok ...
10:43:24Bagdertetris is a trademark and they protect it
10:43:42TiMiD[FD]I was thinking of committing my multi screen tetris of last year, but it seems that I'll have to rename it ...
10:44:02Bagderyes, it can't be named to anything similar to tetris
10:44:12TiMiD[FD]are the graphics ok or do I need to change them ?
10:44:17TiMiD[FD](I took the gb's one ...)
10:44:34Bagder !
10:44:47Bagderthe graphics can look however you want
10:44:58Bagderwe ignore them stupid lawyers on that point
10:45:11linuxstbBut surely they can't be an _exact_ copy of existing graphics?
10:45:22Bagderthe tetris company of course claim that they own the "gameplay" as well
10:45:24TiMiD[FD]they look almost the same as the one on the GB's game so ...
10:45:46pixelmawhy do we need another one - the screenshot on the main screen looks almost exactly as the one there is now (exept a few tweeks that were done later)
10:45:58Bagderafaik, very tiny graphics components can in fact be drawn exactly similar and still not be infringing
10:46:17scorcheas long as you drew them yourself and didnt not rip them
10:46:23TiMiD[FD]pixelma: this one is multiplayer on the remote ...
10:46:25linuxstbscorche: That's what I mean.
10:46:29Bagderbut of course, we better not use the exact look to avoid getting lawyers sent at us... again
10:46:44TiMiD[FD]of course I drew them by myself, with some inspirations ....
10:46:46pixelmaTiMiD[FD]: yes but why can't rockblox be "expanded"?
10:46:49scorcheBagder: they bite
10:47:00Bagderthey do, yes
10:47:23Bagderit seems suitable to replace rockblox in case we want this newer one
10:47:28TiMiD[FD]pixelma: rockblox is not very suited for multiplayer, my code base is cleaner
10:47:45*scorche votes we abandont the Rock... name
10:48:00TiMiD[FD]... blox ...
10:48:18Bagderbut in this case I find the name fun ;-)
10:48:24scorchesomething...just too many things are rock...
10:48:27TiMiD[FD]ok so I go for blox :p
10:48:40scorcheor some other thing of your devising =)
10:48:40TiMiD[FD]yes like the K in kde ...
10:48:45scorchestoneblox, perhaps
10:49:04TiMiD[FD]blox is fine
10:49:29TiMiD[FD]tetris would have been the best name but ...
10:49:38amiconnWhy not rockblox?
10:49:41scorchebut that is a no-do =)
10:49:43TiMiD[FD]who wrote the rockblox plugin ?
10:50:00BagderI think Bjrn wrote the origina as a port from something else
10:50:00pixelmaTiMiD[FD]: personally I don't like the "stone" graphics but you can one really only decide if you see it on the screen(s) - btw. how does it work with the iaudio remote?
10:50:05Bagder100 years ago
10:50:06TiMiD[FD]I don't want someone to compalin again about rewritten code
10:50:09amiconnThe rockblox name is already a tradition for te***s in rockbox
10:50:26amiconnAnd the current rockblox is already a rewrite, not the original one
10:50:26scorcheamiconn: i am not saying that it cant be, it just seems that rock... names are a bit too common and can be annoying
10:50:53*scorche was just putting in his opinion and should be considered an order in any way
10:50:54pixelmaTiMiD[FD]: but then I made the current "colour" scheme which is very clear on all greyscale displays I could see
10:51:04amiconnrockblox.c: Copyright (C) 2005 Eli Sherer
10:51:19TiMiD[FD]pixelma: I developped this plugin last year so there was no iaudio remote support at that time, I'll have to take / modify the graphics and the keymap from rockblox
10:52:10TiMiD[FD]amiconn: I was just wondering if that person was there now to discuss
10:52:25amiconnTiMiD[FD]: I can't say I like the sideways aspect on the remote in your screenshot
10:52:28TiMiD[FD]the clock plugin case cold me down ...
10:52:57amiconnMaybe it makes some sense for the iriver remote because of its extreme landscape aspect *and* small size, but nowhere else
10:52:57TiMiD[FD]the screen is too small
10:53:10pixelmaTiMiD[FD]: I don't think you need different "structures" for the stones, personally I find that rather confusing, but as I said I'm maybe a bit biased
10:53:11BagderEli Sherer hasn't been around for ages afaik
10:53:26amiconnIt's not too small per se, rockblox works vertically on the archos lcd, which is also only 64 pixels high
10:53:44TiMiD[FD]also I was thinking of making the play board rotated on the archoses
10:54:01Bagderthe previous version worked hard to not do that
10:54:06Bagdersince the original was
10:54:09amiconnHeck, the current rockblox even works on the archos player - with just 14 pixels vertically (14 rows only of course)
10:54:09TiMiD[FD]like the original rockblox for archoses
10:54:15*linuxstb loves circular development
10:54:20pixelmaTiMiD[FD]: btw. there is a non-landscape version for the ifP which has the same screen size as the iriver remote
10:54:38TiMiD[FD]ok I'll take a look
10:54:40BagderTiMiD[FD]: people simply hate the sidewise versions
10:54:53TiMiD[FD]but on the iriver remote, the gameplay is better with the scren rotated
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10:55:26pixelmaTiMiD[FD]: I like it not rotated better on my OndioFM
10:55:34*Bagder runs away
10:55:54amiconnRotated is just cumbersome on a main unit
10:56:02amiconnMaybe the iriver remote is a special case
10:56:26TiMiD[FD]it's only a matter ofmaking the graphics ...
10:56:28pixelmaTiMiD[FD]: I meant not rotated for the ifP
10:56:39amiconnDon't forget that the iaudios also have an LCD remote
10:56:52pixelmathat's what I already said...
10:57:05TiMiD[FD]pixelma: if you think the gameplay would be better without rotation, I'll make it normal
10:57:26amiconn...and that the archoses have non-square pixels
10:57:52LloreanThe iFP is so tiny, and the stick is positioned such that I think using its screen as portrait wouldn't be too bad for it.
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10:57:58amiconnThe current rockblox uses the best possible layout on all targets I have imho
10:58:00TiMiD[FD]maybe I handled that I don't remember
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10:58:28pixelmawell I don't have an iriver and no remote, just telling my opinion about the Archos version
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10:58:59JdGordonhey all
10:59:08JdGordon15h27m runtime on the e200!
10:59:18amiconnI wouldn't mind if rockblox gets replaced again, as long as it works on all targets the current version works on, and doesn't work sideways on any main unit
10:59:45amiconnWhen adding archos player support, I found the current codebase relatively easy to adapt
11:00:35TiMiD[FD]ok so landscape on the ifp ?
11:01:14TiMiD[FD]I tried to hack the code a little, but for multiplayer, it was too messy
11:01:16amiconnMaybe the iFP is also special; I can't tell
11:01:24pixelmaTiMiD[FD]: re. drawing the graphics, I don't think you need something special, just "blocks" is ok, IMO
11:01:44pixelmaas it is now
11:02:00Lloreanamiconn: I think the iFP could get away with portrait rather well for Rockblox, but that's me.
11:03:07pixelmaTiMiD[FD]: and fyi: the iaudio remote is greyscale...
11:03:40TiMiD[FD]pixelma: I'll see it on the original graphics of rockblox anyway
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11:04:03amiconnThe original has no remote support...
11:04:24TiMiD[FD]oh I thought you were talking about the ifp
11:04:31TiMiD[FD]I need to rest
11:04:48TiMiD[FD]8hours of planes and 2 days without sleeping
11:05:21TiMiD[FD]I'll do that tomorrow :)
11:05:31amiconnThe current blocks are drawn at runtime
11:05:34TiMiD[FD]I take not of your remarks all
11:05:46TiMiD[FD]mine are bitmaps
11:06:35TiMiD[FD]I wanted to differenciate the blocks
11:06:46pixelmaI meant both - black blocks for the iFP and a bit of greyscale for the iaudio remote, like there is for the greyscale main screens
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11:07:55TiMiD[FD]anyway I'llput a patch on the tracker
11:07:56amiconnI don't like the different blocks in greyscale in your screenshot. They make it harder to spot gaps imho
11:08:33TiMiD[FD]amiconn: the bottom line is actually blinking
11:08:34pixelmavery personal: the different blocks confuse me once they are in "final position"
11:09:30pixelmaat this point it doesn't matter anymore which tile they come from
11:09:49TiMiD[FD]even on the remote ?
11:10:13TiMiD[FD](the remote graphics are different so ...)
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11:11:05TiMiD[FD]in almost all the tetris games I've played, the blocks have different colors/patterns and they keep it when encrusting
11:11:09pixelmayes, the Archos version has only black blocks too
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11:11:40TiMiD[FD]imo it makes it easier to recognise the shape while the block is falling
11:11:56TiMiD[FD]konban wa
11:12:20Manuschdoes anyone knowing a lyrics-viewer for sansa-models
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11:12:46pixelmaTiMiD[FD]: maybe but as amiconn already said it's harder if in final position (to me too)
11:13:53TiMiD[FD]I can make the blocks in final position look different
11:14:00pixelmaTiMiD[FD]: e.g. it's also very hard to spot in the preview box
11:14:43TiMiD[FD]on the remote ?
11:15:41pixelmawell... I admit that's judged from your screenshot
11:16:02TiMiD[FD]full black blocks would be so dull
11:16:10TiMiD[FD]but you're right
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11:16:26TiMiD[FD]it's difficult to see on the b&w screens
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11:17:18TiMiD[FD]although I like the different blocks remaining on the board
11:18:04TiMiD[FD]anyway g2g
11:18:10TiMiD[FD]I'l think about that
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11:18:26JdGordonamiconn: do you know what part of code I should look at to improving the runtime estimate on the sansa? I got 15h while it thinks it has 4h left when fll...
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11:18:51pixelmaTiMiD[FD]: I don't but maybe I'm not the best person to argument with as the current greyscale ones are based on my suggestions... maybe try to get other opinions as well
11:19:26TiMiD[FD]yes I'll try to get other people's opinions, it's a big plugin
11:19:35TiMiD[FD]I'm off
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11:25:46flashydoes anyone know a plugin for viewing lyrics on a sansa e260
11:29:39pixelmaI *think* there is something like that in the patch tracker and maybe one of the unsupported builds include it, but I don't know and I also don't know how it works...
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11:30:12linuxstbflashy: and
11:30:35linuxstbBut reading the patch comments, it seems it doesn't support the Sansa though...
11:30:58linuxstbSorry, later versions of the patch do...
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11:41:56finuxgood morning
11:42:18finuxi have a problem and i hope you can help me with that,
11:43:37finuxi have an ipod 5g (v1) with the newest rockbox built on it. and my ipod batterygoes empty in less then an half our, and when i put it on the load again then it is full at once, any ideas
11:49:20finuxno ideas?
11:50:30linuxstbHow do you know it's empty? The Apple bootloader is buggy and sometimes reports an empty battery when it isn't.
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12:00:56finuxyeah but so my ipod turns off all the time
12:01:19finuxand its not empty, it just shows so
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12:06:33rasheramiconn: here now
12:07:27amiconnrasher: I tried your latest patch.
12:08:06amiconnThe added wavtrim step almost doubles voice building time on cygwin. So it's indeed the process creation that's slow
12:08:32rasherNot really much we can do about that I guess
12:08:33amiconnOnce the new mechanism gets committed, I'll probably move the wavtrim and lame calls into the vbscript, making them way faster
12:09:01amiconnI found the bug why the created voices don't work: the target id doesn't get passed properly
12:09:03rasherduplication :\
12:09:07amiconnIt's always 0
12:09:23rasherAh, that would do it, yes
12:10:18amiconnYes, but I'd rather live with some duplication if it speeds voice building by factors
12:11:05amiconnAnd for some reason the created voice files are still quite big, so I cannot test on hwcodec
12:11:11rasherYeah, I guess
12:11:23amiconnIt's probably a matter of speeding up the engine's output
12:11:45amiconnBtw, the default set of lame parameters is missing an important detail for hwcodec: -B 64
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12:11:55amiconnThat's not related to your patch I guess
12:11:56rasherI'll add that
12:12:08amiconnAnd −−vbr-new is also a good idea
12:14:21rasherI was under the impression that -V implied −−vbr-new
12:15:04rasherOf course we could also have different defaults based on the target
12:15:35rasherSo if any of the values for hwcodec aren't good for swcodec we could fix that
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12:27:03finuxcant anyone help me
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12:33:28rasherHrm, think I found a cygwin installer that you can pass a list of packages to on the command-line. Should be a godsend for blind users
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12:40:51rasher for future reference
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13:14:09rasherWould it be an idea to provide a patched cygwin installer that installs what's needed for Rockbox? I can't imagine that'd be too hard
13:15:05scorchejust as hard as making a rockbox vmware image? =)
13:15:31rasherNot at all
13:16:49ddaltonwhat about
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13:18:41rasherddalton: that doesn't help if all you have is a windows install
13:19:05rasherscorche: running a virtual machine is probably even worse for a blind user, I'd imagine
13:19:15scorcherasher: oh, im sure
13:19:24ddaltonyes it is
13:19:30ddaltoni couldn't get ssh to work
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13:21:26rasherddalton: do you have cygwin installed?
13:23:51ddaltonyes I do why?
13:24:37rasherHow did you manage to install it? The installer isn't exactly a shining example of accessibility
13:25:06ddaltonI just installed all the packages
13:26:21rasherCan't figure out where in their CVS they're keeping the installer
13:33:20 Quit kubiixaka ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
13:33:33Lloreanrasher: If there is a patched installer, it should download a package list / config from the rockbox servers, rather than being hardcoded at least. Otherwise it'd fall to the same problems as the old "DevKit"
13:34:45rasherLlorean: well except we could be keeping it in cvs and everyone could help out, and it'd be a simple matter of adding a package name to a list somewhere
13:35:00rasherthe Devkit was really a custom beast that wasn't easily extended
13:35:22Lloreanrasher: But I think they should be able to just re-run the installer they already have on disk to update to the newest versions, rather than having to download a new installer from SVN
13:35:42LloreanIf we change to GCC 4.1 or such, for example
13:36:17rasherThat'd require running, not any changes in cygwin, surely?
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13:37:04LloreanWell, our current cygwin instructions actually ask someone to point cygwin to our own custom .cfg at that has it download precompiled cygwin packages, I thought
13:38:02bluebrotherbuilding the compilers on cygwin would be slow as hell ...
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13:38:52rasherAh, didn't know that
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13:39:05Lloreanbluebrother: Yeah, I think it took a few hours when I tried it.
13:40:36pixelmabluebrother: did you ever try to install the tex4ht package under cygwin? I tried that once but gave up because I couldn't figure out which paths I'd have to change and to what... (no time to discuss that now, just curious)
13:41:41rasherI think a solution could be to make rockbox a full cygwin mirror with a package list that installs everything needed
13:41:46rasherBut I'm not really sure
13:42:42rasherAnyway, with the patch I linked to previously it could be done with two invocations of setup.exe. One for a regular mirror, and one for the rockbox "mirror"
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13:45:00pixelmaI thought there was some kind of rockbox mirror already?
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13:45:33rasherYes, but it's not a full mirror as far as I can tell
13:46:33pixelmaI see
13:47:04rasherbut the patch I posted earlier allows to do something like: setup.exe -p zip,unzip,gcc,gcc-mingw-core,make,mingw-utils,patch-utils,subversion[,etc]
13:47:17rasherAnd you can already specify a mirror on the commandline
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14:01:42BjerrkHi.. Has their been made any attempts at porting rockbox to the Cowon iAudio A2? And if so, what problems are you facing?
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14:03:34rasherBjerrk: I don't think anything has been done. See here: and
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14:05:40Bjerrkrasher: Ah, thanks :) . I was looking at the NewPort page already :)
14:07:03BjerrkThe NewPort page is written in a quite uncompromising and unsympathetic way.. Hm.
14:07:40rasherThis is probably because people often think a port is something that will just happen. And don't realise that it's really hard work.
14:09:14BjerrkYeah, i figured, but it just seems to be an attitude that many FOSS developers have. And i fully understand this, as their work is too often just taken for granted
14:09:44BjerrkAnd i say this not as a total newbie, but as a person who has been using free systems for years :P
14:10:00LloreanWhat is the attitude? "If you want something done badly, go ahead and do it?"
14:11:03LloreanA port really can't happen except by people who both own the hardware, and really want to see it happen.
14:11:49peturand have a clue...
14:12:05BjerrkWell, that's the message they'd like to communicate, i'm sure, but often it just ends out in a lot of exhortations and offensiveness..
14:12:21LloreanIs there something you find particularly offensive about the NewPorts page?
14:13:16peturthe problem is more the attitude of the users
14:13:33BjerrkWell, no, not directly offensive. But not very friendly either. Look, i'm not attacking you guys, i'm just saying that communication is both about the message and the way you deliver it.
14:14:31LloreanI wasn't saying you were. I was honestly asking if you had suggestions for improvement.
14:14:41BjerrkCool :)
14:15:09BjerrkOn another note, that wiki page is quite useful..
14:15:11LloreanBeing a wiki, it's available for you to rewrite for more friendliness, as long as it still gets the message across clearly: You will have a lot of work to do if you want a new port to happen.
14:15:24JdGordonLlorean: what do you think about allowing both sansa keymaps in the binary?
14:15:32JdGordonwith the new version default
14:15:49bluebrotherswitchable keymaps? Noooo!
14:16:45rasherVery no.
14:17:54BjerrkHeh heh
14:18:00JdGordondo either of you have a sansa?
14:18:17LloreanI wouldn't really object to an option for switching between a semi-standard "Rockbox" keymap, and a keymap mirroring most of the OF's keymap, where possible, on players (with the default being the Rockboxy one)
14:18:30LloreanAs an option for several players, rather than just the Sansa, that is.
14:18:46bluebrotherwhy is there a need to mimic the OF behaviour?
14:18:49JdGordonim talking about the sansa only for the moment...
14:19:04JdGordonbluebrother: because not everyone likes the rockbox keys
14:19:10LloreanI really don't see the need to introduce a switchable keymap for just one player, if you feel one *must* be introduced.
14:19:26LloreanI still like they more standardized keymap better for usability.
14:19:42bluebrotherthat's not really a reason imo
14:19:58bluebrothera lot of people also dislike the default wps etc.
14:20:08JdGordonwhy force a keymap on everyone when we havee a perfectly worable syste, to alternate?
14:21:15bluebrotherit's option bloat imo
14:21:31JdGordonand the other 150 options arnt?
14:21:38bluebrotherno :)
14:22:19bluebrotherwhile some available options might indeed be bloat already there is absolutly no reason to add more bloat.
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14:24:10*JdGordon wants a better reason than option bloat to not think about making the patch for it
14:24:13JdGordonhey Nico_P
14:24:16JdGordonhows things?
14:24:22*petur would not be completely against loadable keymappings
14:24:26Nico_Pgood, back from my vacation
14:24:36JdGordonpetur: NOT loadable keymaps...
14:24:40JdGordona choice of two...
14:24:54rasherThink about the poor manual writers
14:24:55bluebrotherswitchable keymaps as nearly as bad as loadable keymaps
14:24:55JdGordon... loadable keymaps would be relativly simple to setup though :p
14:25:17bluebrotherjust think about a user switching to the alternate keymap and being stuck as he isn't used to that keymap
14:25:26peturloadable mappings, just like lang and wps... a build-in one and external files
14:25:37bluebrotherurgh :(
14:25:40JdGordonthe setting wouldnt exaclty be easy to accidently switch
14:25:50peturbluebrother: reset settings?
14:25:51rasherJdGordon: I can tell you don't know our users
14:26:03bluebrotherthat will annoy users even more ...
14:26:13peturbluebrother: the same can happen when a user sets black text on black background
14:26:20bluebrotherand if he's only used to the alternate keymapping?
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14:26:53bluebrotherthat needs to get addressed too.
14:27:14bluebrothermaybe show a yes-no-screen if fg and bg colors are really similar (or equal)
14:27:19JdGordonjust like when any default is changed... we put a message on the ml's and have lots of annoyed users come in and winge
14:27:31peturwe need some standard hotkey to bring up help :)
14:27:36Lloreanbluebrother: The problem for fg/bg is most commonly an image + black text, or similar, I think.
14:27:44bluebrotherself-destruct button? *g*
14:28:26*petur will give the H10 mapping a kick too
14:28:40LloreanI also really like FS6920 (if I remember the number right)
14:29:22LloreanI really don't like the center of the cross on the gigabeat being "Pause", it makes one handed use a good deal more difficult (for me, partially being a lefty, partially because I want to leave teh WPS and insert things more often than pausing playback)
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14:29:53JdGordon*couph* customizable buttons
14:30:06Llorean*cough* semi-standard button use
14:30:07JdGordonthis could all be fixed so easily with loadable button maps
14:30:31JdGordonLlorean: im agreeing with you... custom ones are just an extension
14:30:31bluebrother... and open a really big can of worms
14:30:38LloreanAnd it would create an absolute support nightmare when you try to talk someone through the button presses to fix something
14:30:52LloreanIt's already hard enough getting someone to verify they're using a current build.
14:31:01JdGordonwe could add a button combo which would force the button map to default
14:31:12JdGordon.. on bootup i mean
14:31:29peturwell if somebody uses an alternate mapping they surely will know how to move around their player
14:31:41FebsAnd will you then come to the forums and answer 3,000 questions about how to force the button map to default?
14:31:42rasherpetur: I can tell you don't know our users
14:32:04*petur knows himself?
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14:32:56Lloreanpetur: Trust me when I say, no they won't. :)
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14:33:25LloreanI'm betting half the time they won't even remember that a button's purpose has been changed in that screen
14:33:49*petur abstains from the discussion and continues adding yet another new feature ;)
14:34:06LloreanWhat new feature this time? ;)
14:34:22peturrecording clipping counter
14:34:28LloreanAh, saw that patch
14:34:30LloreanSeems useful
14:34:58peturit is for stealth recording
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14:35:40peturoh... long time no see...
14:36:22*petur sees austriancoder has been away almost 5 days and sighs
14:36:38gregjlife ;)
14:36:46*gregj is is about to move to London, from Cambridge
14:36:51gregjnew job, etc
14:36:59rasheramiconn: I changed the default lame opts and fixed the language-id problem.
14:37:14gregjI saw you guys did a loads of changes within last month
14:37:19peturgregj: then you can join those devconpub guys :)
14:38:31*Febs highly recommends DevConPub.
14:38:45*scorche wish he could join
14:40:38*JdGordon too
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14:41:49gregjpetur: what time when
14:42:13peturask them, I'm not in London
14:42:28*petur points to GodEater, wherever he is
14:42:56rasherBagder: Any idea why "make voice" builds bitmaps?
14:43:44rasherMake building voice on cygwin significantly slower :|
14:44:06gregjI still live in Cambridge, but gotta move
14:44:10rasherDid I ever complain about cygwin being slow, because it really really is.
14:44:33gregjthat's why ppl don't use toys, they use real stuff - and work on linux or mac os x
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14:44:53rasherYeah, but I have to test on cygwin when toying with the build system
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14:57:23Bjerrkrasher: Cygwin? I was under the impression that you were running Linux.
14:57:33BjerrkSorry, GNU/Linux..
14:58:13rasherBjerrk: I am, mainly (at least when doing Real Work), but I'm working on voice building which needs a lot of attention on cygwin, so I have to test it there.
14:58:30BjerrkAh, sounds reasonable.
14:58:56LloreanEspecially since in general the Windows voices are much better.
14:59:33Bjerrkthe "Windows Voices"?
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15:00:06LloreanEven Microsoft's voices are at least comparable to espeak/flite/festival, and many other SAPI voices are far superior.
15:00:46gregjhow does festival work anyway ?
15:00:53BjerrkWorks ok for me
15:01:11BjerrkBut i'm not really visually impaired, so i don't use them regularly
15:01:15rasherIt's reasonable, but not really comparable to commercial tts engines
15:01:31gregjdoes it use hudge db of sounds to create something out of it, using some weirdo algorithm, or is it just like on atari, attempt to synthetise something that sounds like voice
15:01:55rasherThe former. Espeak does the latter, and some people like the results better
15:02:05gregjI see
15:02:44LloreanI really like espeak's sound better than festival's sound, for example
15:02:54gregjwhich one does rockbox try to use ?
15:03:09LloreanRockbox's voice building scripts can make use of any of the three, and in windows SAPI5 I believe.
15:03:31gregjI thought there's plugin synthetising stuff
15:03:40gregjso it could read out track names, etc
15:03:49LloreanPrebuilt voice files for the menus, premaed clips for track names can be generated with scripts
15:03:54LloreanBut there's no inbuilt synthesis right now
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15:16:51Learrasher: Aware of any freely available TTS for Swedish, for use with Cygwin?
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17:15:00*gregj yawns
17:15:52*petur wonders if he shouldn't just commit the clipcounter iso putting patches on the tracker
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17:39:10polygonalI would like to see my patch FS #7627 commited... it solves an inconsistency in viewing and saving dynamic playlist when dynamic playlist finishes playing
17:39:50polygonalcurrently you can save but not view the dynamic playlist, which does not make much sense to me
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17:40:18peturI'll have a look as soon as I'm done with 2976
17:40:59polygonalmy patch basically add the same check the saving playlist function does to the viewing playlist, so nothing is new
17:41:01polygonalpetur: thanks
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17:47:57bluebrotherurgh. Fading menus ...
17:48:08bluebrotheranyone against rejecting FS #2143?
17:50:36JdGordonbluebrother: yeah close it
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17:54:26stevenmHello. I am experiencing a strange bug with my MIDI code, and I don't think it is my fault
17:54:36stevenmEverything works fine until the backlight times out
17:55:01stevenmBut if a file is playing and the backlight turns off and then I press a key, the music stops, the backlight does not come on, and the device freezes
17:55:08stevenm(Oh, I'm on an iRiver H340)
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17:56:06peturstevenm: there is a very rare bug with normal playback like that, it may be related. Does it always happen?
17:56:27stevenmpetur, almost always
17:56:49stevenmpetur, it may be related to CPU usage? MIDI is very very CPU intensive
17:57:13stevenmand normal playback may not be so much. you have to catch it at the wrong time, when it is under load?
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17:58:11stevenmsomething that probably neds to be addressed
17:58:17stevenma kernel thing?
17:58:19peturhrmmm I probably closed it in the tracker because it didn't happen to me any more
17:58:25Domonokystevenm: blacklight fading uses cpu on hxx0 players, as its software pwm.. so it could be load related...
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17:58:55stevenmDomonoky, I do not have it turned on? It does not fade, just turns off
17:59:03peturstevenm: please report it in the tracker with list how to reproduce
17:59:15stevenmpetur, will do
18:02:27peturpolygonal: I'm running out of time (gtg soon), if nobody else gets to it I'll do it tomorrow...
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18:04:51*jhMikeS may know why
18:04:57polygonalpetur: thanks again :)
18:05:15peturah well, will do a qiuck commit :)
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18:06:17peturyou're already in the credits, right?
18:09:30stevenmDogBoy, petur, bug added to flyspray
18:10:18*bluebrother would like people using real names on FS too ...
18:10:29 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
18:11:07*petur too
18:11:31bluebrotherwasn't a real name policy for FS discussed once?
18:11:42peturreal life calling, have a nice evening y'all ;)
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19:22:07*ender` yawns
19:22:50H10_007quickwhile ( count != 5 || data-data1 > -20 && data-data1 < 20 ) this says while count does not equal 5 or data-data1 is between -20 and 20 continue doing this loop right?
19:28:55jbitthat seriously needs more brakets
19:29:11bluebrotherhmm −− not sure about the precendence of || vs. &&
19:29:59bluebrotheras always, when in doubt use brackets :)
19:30:11H10_007quickwhile ( count != 5 || (data-data1 > -20 && data-data1 < 20) )
19:30:13H10_007quicklike that?
19:30:35jbiti'd usually put more brakets in, but that should be fine
19:30:49H10_007quickok and count = count + 1; adds 1 to the varialbe count right?
19:30:59jbitis nicer
19:31:03bluebrotheryes. But you usually write count++ in C
19:31:07H10_007quickoh ok
19:31:13H10_007quickthanks for the help
19:31:21bluebrother(the former is usually considered beginners-style ;-)
19:31:33H10_007quicklike me
19:31:46jbitwhile ( (count != 5) || ((data-data1 > -20) && (data-data1 < 20)) )
19:32:01jbitis how i'd write it, btw... that way no matter how stupid the compiler is, it'll evaluate to how you want
19:32:07bluebrotheryou can also write count += 1 −− comes handy when the increment is something different to 1
19:32:15jbit(and i've had the great experience of working with stupid compilers)
19:35:07H10_007quickoh goody, it compiles
19:35:13H10_007quicknow to see if it works
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19:43:23Kyle_Owill rockbox support the belkin ipod transmitter?
19:45:01H10_007quick could someone tell me what I did wrong? I think it must be to do with the loop
19:46:12H10_007quickI want the loop to read values either until the value goes out of bounds, or until it has cycled, count amount of times
19:46:55bluebrotheryou should also put braces around (data - data1)
19:46:59H10_007quickor is the loop fine
19:48:06H10_007quickthat couldn't have been the problem though
19:48:37H10_007quickbecause the code caused the player to freze when I touched the scroll pad. Thats why I think it never left the loop
19:49:14H10_007quickit would still leave the loop after cycling 5 times
19:49:29bluebrotherwhy are you or-ing in the while statement?
19:50:04bluebrotherif count == 5 and the difference between data and data1 is less than 20 the statement is still true ...
19:50:17bluebrotherso it doesn't leave after 5 readouts
19:50:54H10_007quickI want it to exit if either statement is true
19:51:12H10_007quickI see what you mean now
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19:52:56H10_007quickwould putting && mean that it would exit upon either statement becoming false?
19:53:49bluebrotherif you and the conditions the result will be false if any of the conditions goes false
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19:54:15H10_007quickah so that is what I want then
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20:05:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:27:49DerPapstgood evening
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21:46:37DefineByteIf I scan albums with foobar2000's ReplayGain scanner set to 'prevent clipping' do I still need to enable 'prevent clipping' in Rockbox?
21:48:39DefineByteI guess crossfeed (which I use) could introduce clipping but I set the pre-amp to -2dB, which I've been told should take care of it.
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22:05:41***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:15:57debarshiI was going through the Rockbox and IPodLinux web sites. What is the basic difference between the two?
22:16:11Bagderipl is linux on ipod
22:16:20debarshiIf I have to use a IPod Nano (first generation) then which is my best bet?
22:16:22Bagderrockbox is a music player firmware on numerous targets
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22:16:36Bagderwhat do you want it to do?
22:17:01BagderI mean, best bet for what kind of usage?
22:17:02DerPapstyou can test them both at the same time.. so whichever you like more
22:17:35debarshiBagder: If something goes wrong, will it cause damage to my IPod, apart from losing data?
22:17:50DerPapstha first :P
22:17:57Bagderno here! ;-)
22:18:03Bagdernot here even
22:18:12debarshiDerPapst: What ?
22:18:26debarshiBagder: So no fear of irreparable damage?
22:18:36DerPapstnothing.. i was just faster with answering your question ;)
22:18:52debarshiOk. Ok.
22:19:26BagderDerPapst: =>
22:19:30BagderI won! ;-)
22:19:49debarshiIf I install IPod Linux, does it use the Apple firmware? If yes, I can make IPod Linux work with Rockbox too, right?
22:20:15Bagderyou can select what system to start at boot time, yes
22:20:34DerPapstBagder: D:
22:20:38rasherBagder: Any idea why "make voice" would trigger a rebuild of bitmaps?
22:20:38DerPapstthats cheating
22:20:51Bagderrasher: not really, no
22:21:03rasherIt slows down cygwin voicebuilding considerably
22:21:17Bagderyeah, I can imagine
22:21:39rasherEven if it is already built, just checking takes a good while
22:21:51debarshiBagder: System means firmware?
22:22:10Bagderdebarshi: yes, if firmware is what you want to call them ;-)
22:23:38debarshiBagder: If I put IPod Linux, the original Apple OS gets lost? (not that I want to keep it)
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22:24:00Bagderbut for ipod linux help, this is not the right channel
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22:24:54debarshiBagder: I mean the Ipod needs both an OS and a firmware to be present at the same time, right?
22:25:03DerPapstdebarshi: you'll install a bootloader and then you can boot whatever you like.
22:25:22Bagderdebarshi: in this context, the OS and firmware is the same thing
22:25:22DerPapstyou cna even replace the OF whith whatever you like
22:26:05debarshiDerPapst, Bagder: Thanks a lot for the information.
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22:30:32rasherBagder: okay, it's "make features" that builds the bitmaps.. :|
22:31:48BagderI think I see why
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22:32:07rasherCool, because I've no idea what's happening in apps/Makefile
22:32:23Bagderit includes $(DEPFILE)
22:32:33Bagderbut depfile depends on $(BITMAPLIBS)
22:33:30rasherAny way to avoid it?
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22:33:52Bagderthat dependency needs to be changed... I'll see what I can do
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22:35:12rasherExcellent. I think I've just about done all I can for now, so any time you have time to have a look
22:35:35rasherBuilding when most files are in the pool is sped up greatly on Linux
22:36:31BagderI think you should commit it when it works for you
22:37:24rasherOkay, I think I'll add some guessing for TTS options, such that when the user selects say, italian, and festival, it suggest the commandline options "−−language italian"
22:37:37rasherThat's in configure though
22:37:49rasherBut I'm changing some stuff there as well
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22:41:28DefineBytelast try, promise: If I scan albums with foobar2000's ReplayGain scanner set to 'prevent clipping' do I still need to enable 'prevent clipping' in Rockbox?
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22:43:19parafinDefineByte, i think it's complete different options
22:43:26rasherEnter festival options (enter for defaults "−−language italian"):
22:43:58DefineByteseems like it achieves the same goal though, no?
22:44:13parafinDefineByte, sort of
22:44:24parafinanswering your question, yes you do
22:45:06DefineByteeven if i'm not using any DSP effects in rockbox?
22:45:23DefineByteand using line-out^
22:45:54parafinwell, if you are using line out an doesn't apply preamp, that you don't need it
22:46:26DefineBytei do apply pre-amp: -2dB; I guess that's not a problem
22:46:44parafini think so
22:46:58DefineBytethink it is or think it isn't? :D
22:47:41parafinoh, that english grammar :) i think it's not a problem
22:48:13DefineByteheh, thanks.
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22:48:48parafinanyway, i don't see any problem to turn this option on - it wouldn't harm
22:49:03DefineByteCPU use?
22:49:13DefineBytemight be tiny but still
22:49:25DefineBytewaste not want not. :)
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22:49:38parafinit is only one check at start of track
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22:50:27DefineByteso it can't prevent clipping from DSPs then?
22:50:48parafindunno, i guess not
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22:51:11DefineBytei always thought it did, ah well. live and learn. :)
22:51:29parafinyou better ask the author of code or just read it yourself
22:52:00parafini'm basing my opinion only on explanation of this option in manual
22:52:02Bagderpreglow is your man for that
22:52:22DefineBytewhen's he usually about?
22:52:52Bagderalways and never, he's a central european time zoner
22:53:21rasherDefineByte: afternoons and evenings
22:53:24Bagderbut there are others who can answer as well
22:53:25rasherIn Europe
22:53:28DefineBytewell I'm GMT. I'll look out for him. thank you.
22:54:25rasherActually passing the options to festival might help make it speak italian..
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23:10:17Bagdergrrr, fixing the "voice builds bitmaps" issue requires some work
23:11:53rasherWell, it'd be really nice to avoid at least
23:13:28rasheroh dear, that's not right at all..
23:13:30rasher Language: italiano
23:13:33rasher TTS Engine (options): festival (−−language finnish)
23:13:45rasherThat's not exactly what I wanted to do
23:13:58Bagderthe user is up for quite som surprise! ;-)
23:14:25rasherI need to do something clever for building multiple voices
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23:15:15rasherRight now they all use the same config
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23:15:57rasherSince I moved away from generating the "" approach
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23:18:31rasherI think I'll remove the option to build multiple voices for now and get the rest committed. I sincerely doubt anyone is using it already
23:18:56BagderI don't think that is a necessary feature anyway
23:19:06Bagderyou can just as well just make another build
23:19:29rasheror rather, I'll leave it in as a hidden feature that doesn't actually work and then try and make it work later
23:20:05Bagderpossibly, sure
23:21:37rasherGosh, you really need to remember to kill the festival server if you abort voice building in the middle of it
23:21:46rasherEspecially if the server is voicing in a different language
23:22:57Bagderthe perl script could probably attemp to do it
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23:23:29rasherYeah, it probably should
23:23:41Bagdersub catch_zap { stopservers(); die "moo" }
23:23:48Bagder$SIG{INT} = \&catch_zap;
23:23:48Bagder$SIG{KILL} = \&catch_zap;
23:24:16rasheractually $SIG{INT} = shutdown_tts();
23:24:23rashereh, \&shutdown_tts;
23:24:36Bagderthere you go then! ;-)
23:24:38rasheror do I need the die as well?
23:24:52DerPapstand let it moo
23:25:12rasherThis has rather feeble cow powers.
23:28:31rasheroh dear, what if I need to pass arguments to the shutdown_tts function? I realise these arguments might not even exist, but what on earth do I do? Create global values of them and see if they exist?
23:29:27BagderI guess you have to
23:31:50rasherThis really bugs me. I've been painstakingly passing arguments around to avoid using global (or whatever the perl-speak for that is) variables
23:32:18rasherBut there's not really much I can do
23:32:33parafinyou can check was there any arguments given to function
23:32:54rasherThat won't do me any good in this situation
23:32:56Bagderparafin: the signal comes in a global context, it has no arguments
23:33:32rasherProblem is I need to know which (if any) tts engine was started to do the shutdown
23:33:41parafinwell, you can create anonymous function
23:33:54Bagderhow does that help?
23:34:35parafinwell, you can change signal handler when needed to change arguments
23:34:58Bagderah, true
23:35:21Bagderbut that's only really useful if there are a few alternatives
23:35:39rasherThere aren't that many
23:36:03rashersapi and festival.. espeak and flite don't need any shutdown
23:37:11rasherStill not entirely sure how i give the "arguments" though
23:39:19rasherSo I find out that i'm going to be running the festival server.. normal shutdown is done by doing: kill TERM => $pid
23:39:34rasherWhat do I set $SIG{INT} to?
23:40:38rasherAh.. $SIG{INT} = sub { kill TERM => $pid }; ?
23:45:51 Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
23:46:49rasherYay, it's working.. it even cleans up so there are no leftover mp3 or waves lying around
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23:50:27qwmhas anyone gotten past lvl 70 at the bubble game?
23:50:45qwmi damn near completed it a few days ago...
23:51:12qwm(playing it on a 1g nano.)
23:51:56rasherBagder: committing now
23:52:37rasherBagder: I need to do something when adding a binary file, don't I?
23:54:05 Quit debarshi ("Ex-Chat")
23:54:47BagderI believe svn:mime-type need to be set
23:54:59Bagderunless it is made automatically...
23:56:59rasherI think svn diff said something about mime-type being application/octect-stream.. would that be fine, then?
23:57:48BagderI think so, yes
23:58:56*rasher crosses fingers
23:58:57rasherHere we go

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