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#rockbox log for 2007-08-30

00:00:02 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
00:00:18 Join jhulst [0] (
00:00:38 Join ddalton [0] (
00:01:06ddaltonhas anyone found splash screens that don't talk? I have found about 6
00:03:23qwmscorche: i fucking hate level 70.
00:03:23 Quit x1jmp (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:04:19 Quit austriancoder (Remote closed the connection)
00:05:02ddaltonwhat is displayed when entering the recording screen?
00:05:58peturthe recording screen?
00:06:20ddaltonyes the one which is accessed from the root menu.
00:06:32ddaltonor maybe it is called the main menu.
00:06:33peturddalton: that was my answer ;)
00:07:01 Join iamben [0] (
00:07:05ddaltondo you know?
00:07:28ddaltonwhat is displayed on the screen?
00:07:43peturseveral things...
00:07:54 Join RudMan [0] (
00:08:07peturrecording time, size, filename, peakmeters, volume, gain,...
00:08:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:08:20ddaltonis that when your recording?
00:08:38peturno, always
00:08:53peturit starts in monitoring mode
00:09:38mirakthommy: I would like a player that copies music to player like itune does
00:09:43mirakfrom library
00:09:46peturthe selector is on volume when you enter it. up/down moves the bar, left/right changes the value
00:09:46DerPapstItem, size, filename, volume, gain left and right and of course peakmeters (monitoring mode)
00:12:33 Quit mirak (Remote closed the connection)
00:14:08thommyi cant find the option that amarok treat my ipot like a "regular device"
00:14:22thommyups ipod not ipot
00:15:00kk_well, "Generic Audio Player"
00:15:19thommyall right
00:15:24 Nick kk_ is now known as krazykit (n=kkit@
00:15:25bluebrotherSettings / Configure Amarok / Media Devices
00:15:35 Quit Redbreva ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
00:17:04jhMikeSamiconn: those i2s settings will be what runs for all pp5020 then?
00:22:05amiconnI don't know
00:22:17amiconnIt works on H10
00:22:32jhMikeSso you used those I2S setting along with which DSP mode - A/B?
00:23:08amiconn(LRP = 0)
00:25:02jhMikeSno quick recording test?
00:25:05thommyworks great thanks
00:26:04amiconnI don't even know whether recording works at all on H10
00:26:23jhMikeSlast I heard it does
00:29:26 Quit thommy (Remote closed the connection)
00:29:50peturbah... the validation tool is no longer available for w2k, needs xp-sp2 at least. However it installs/runs fine on my w2k box except for a crash at the end...
00:30:02peturamiconn: mic or line-in?
00:30:24peturmic recording works on H10 5gb
00:30:27jhMikeSI think line-in works if you have a dock or something?
00:30:40peturdoc or cable
00:30:46amiconnAh that. No I don't have the necessary adapter
00:31:46jhMikeSis the FM chip bit-banged i2c and not available to the regular i2c driver on h10?
00:32:07amiconnDon't ask me...
00:33:15peturhmmm the usb stack sends some weird codes back for identification (FFFF, 0001)
00:33:58*jhMikeS wonders if that will get a proper interrupt-based implementation and not the awful tick polling :\
00:34:03 Join midkay [0] (n=midkay@rockbox/developer/midkay)
00:34:24*petur thought it was already using interrupts
00:34:29amiconnFM isn't supported on H10 yet. Iirc barrywardell tried but didn't succeed
00:34:48peturand I managed to get one without FM :(
00:34:55jhMikeSamiconn: I thought it was TEA5767
00:34:59amiconnYes it is
00:35:23amiconnBut FM support on H10 is really lowpri compared to many other things on my todo
00:35:44amiconnWhat good is FM support if the battery drains in <4 hours?
00:35:49jhMikeSpetur: it's just calling usb_interrupt during the tick all the time
00:36:06jhMikeSamiconn: so it can drain in 5? :P
00:36:59jhMikeSe200 is such a trouble-free target compared to others it seems. can play it all day long.
00:37:14amiconnYOu also don't get full runtime afaik
00:37:24amiconnI wouldn't call that trouble free
00:37:57jhMikeSI've never done a test but I do run high bitrate audio and have never gotten even to 50% batt
00:40:16 Join perrikwp [0] (i=98215e76@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:40:23 Join Jeton [0] (n=chatzill@
00:44:13jhMikeSthe batt indicator seems a bit off though. there a quick voltage drop immediately after charge and it flattens out thereafter. the indicator doesn't seem to account.
00:45:22 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
00:46:12jhMikeSlinuxstb: you didn't try amiconn's i2s settings on the color?
00:46:47 Quit stripwax (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:47:44 Quit Wiwie ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
00:47:53scorcheqwm: heh...still cant beat it?
00:48:34 Quit bluebrother ("'nite")
00:51:24amiconnrasher: Just exec'ing lame makes for a _huge_ speedup :)
00:51:40rasheramiconn: In the vbscript?
00:51:41amiconnNow to convert wavtrim
00:51:55amiconnwavtrim is a bit difficult because of the path
00:52:14amiconnAnd that shouldn't be reevaluated every time by using cygpath
00:52:54rasherI have no idea why cygpath is even used
00:53:00rasherA relative path should be fine
00:53:12amiconn/ −−> \
00:53:20rasherIs that necessary?
00:53:35rasherstill, cygpath shouldn't be needed?
00:53:51amiconnI think it is needed
00:54:09DerPapstdoesn't ..\..\bla work in windoes too?
00:54:29amiconnYes, but not when source & build dir are on different drives
00:54:48amiconn...and that is possible when using /cygdrive/<letter>
00:55:37amiconnBut since init_tts() needs to use cygpath anyway, it can as well store the tools path in the returned array ref
00:56:54 Quit Siltaar (Remote closed the connection)
00:57:04amiconnwavtrim is mostly defunct for sapi anyway atm, because of the synchronisation issue
00:57:42rasherAh, didn't consider the differing drives
00:57:52 Quit Jeton ("later")
01:04:38amiconnThe unlink($wav); also suffers from the synchronisation problem
01:05:03jhMikeSpetur: It seems that using GPIO interrupts keeps missing interrupts but an early USB patch I put the GPIO IRQ stuff together on seemed to be getting all of them. I don't know what changed.
01:06:26 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
01:07:35 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
01:11:22 Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.)
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01:16:58 Quit jac0b ()
01:19:28*jhMikeS thinks it's funny even a archos jukebox can run through a couple-hundred thousand switch_thread calls spinning around in the ata driver during audio buffering while playing.
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01:21:45 Join DerPapst [0] (
01:22:36amiconnWhy is that funny?
01:23:35rasheramiconn: I thought you fixed the synchronization problem by opening a bidirectional connection and waiting for SYNC messages from the vbscript?
01:23:43amiconnnot yet
01:23:45 Join phalax [0] (
01:24:07jhMikeS1) it means that yield just burns alot of cycles waiting for disk I/O. 2) switch_thread is very fast
01:24:24jhMikeSgigabeat hits millions
01:24:57amiconnWell, disk spinup takes a while....
01:26:09jhMikeSI can adapt something simple if completion interrupts are possible there and let things be calm.
01:26:52jhMikeSother than buffering it's pretty peaceful at around 20 switch_threads / sec there
01:29:47amiconnWhy? Do we have a performance problem there? KISS...
01:31:38 Quit ender` (" According to the FAA, the propeller blade didn't break off, it was just a case of "uncontained blade liberation."")
01:31:53 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
01:32:03jhMikeSmore sleep time esp. with the pp i2c driver
01:36:37jhMikeSthe scheduler is organized in my patch such that a huge variety of functionality can be implemented with a few basic operations from a basic spinlock to a function to switch a threads core.
01:38:09 Join kreativefinally [0] (i=d18650f3@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:38:58kreativefinallyim having some trouble with my ipod 30g video,
01:39:02 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
01:39:56 Quit kreativefinally (Client Quit)
01:49:54 Join larsemil [0] (
01:50:41larsemilis it normal that rockbox is using alot more power the applefirmware on a ipod 4th gen? my battery is getting empty after maybe 2 hours of listening instead of 12-18...
01:51:35pixelmabut that amount is surprising - did you measure lately?
01:51:36Nimdaeit's not normal
01:52:04Nimdaebut battery consumption is higher due to less optimized use of the hardware
01:52:21Nimdaei get about 6 or so hours out of mine though
01:52:39Nimdaehow old is the ipod?
01:52:57amiconnAny perl expert around?
01:53:33Nimdaei'm no expert, but i can hack it
01:54:22 Quit toffe82 ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
01:55:09amiconnI am trying to return a file handle from a function within a reference to an array
01:55:18amiconn(the filehandle being the first array elemt
01:55:36Nimdaewell, you can continue from there in case someone knows, but you've already lost me ;)
01:56:04amiconnHowever, when I try to use that reference in print(), perl complains that I am using a string where I shouldn't
01:57:32amiconnI.e. sub myfunc { my $ret = *FH; return $ret }; $fh = myfunc(); print($fh, "Blah"); works, but
01:58:54amiconnsub myfunc { my @ret = (*FH, "someother"); my $ret = \@ret; return $ret }; $arr = myfunc(); prinf($$arr[0] "Blah"); doesn't
02:02:33Nimdae$arr = myfunc(); <−− is $arr defined as an array elsewhere?
02:02:45amiconnNo, it's an array reference
02:02:53amiconnLooks like I need curly braces
02:03:12Nimdaeoh, i see, i missed the $$arr[0]
02:03:17amiconnprint({$$arr[0]} "Blah"); seems to do the trick
02:03:42Nimdaewhat about ${$arr[0]}? this is what i would use in tcl
02:03:55amiconnI tried that
02:04:54Nimdaeeither that or an eval
02:04:59Nimdaebut if your way works, run with it
02:05:47 Quit tvelocity ("Αποχώρησε")
02:08:17***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:14:01 Part pixelma
02:14:25 Quit DerPapst ("So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!")
02:24:40larsemilas well i think my rockbox broke the ipod. it worked a couple of days but now i dont get threw the applelogo
02:26:29amiconnrasher: wavtrim doesn't work at all in svn because you forgot to read the second parameter...
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02:34:20 Quit jhMikeS (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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02:40:21 Quit phalax ("Ex-Chat")
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02:56:12 Quit donutman25 ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
03:04:17 Join JGabcde [0] (i=46177202@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
03:04:53Soaplarsemil: you would be the first person for whom (who?) Rockbox broke an iPod. Do you care to provide some more details. It sounds like your iPod might very well be (rightly or wrongly) in its "Very Low Battery Mode" (name I made up (but a legitimate condition))
03:06:13 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
03:06:13Soapwhom's on first?
03:06:33scorche(whats on second)
03:06:52JGabcdelarsemil couldnt have bricked his ipod because i had no clue wat i was doing all i know was i used a easy installer and it was easy the only way some one could do that they would have to be blind and RETARDed
03:07:23SoapJGabcde: as a matter of policy we do NOT call people names.
03:07:42SoapMuch less use "blind" as a derogitory adjetive.
03:08:13scorchemost blind people actually install rockbox quite well
03:10:36 Quit perrikwp ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
03:11:35JGabcdeGood One :)
03:11:38Soaplarsemil: I just realized that I had misread your statement. I thought you had said you don't get _to_ the Apple logo. Now that I look again I see that you said you don't get _through_ the Apple logo. Not knowing what model iPod you have, I am not sure which instructions to give you, but assuming it is an iPod Video (playing the odds here) you should try to boot into disk mode by doing a hard reset with "Menu"+"Select" and, as soon as the iPod boots,
03:11:38Soapswitch to "Select"+"Play". This should allow you to put mount your iPod in your OS of choice so that you can run a disk checking program on it.
03:12:12 Quit Bagder (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:12:48JGabcdeWhat size do the 4G Ipod Photo Icons Have to be?
03:12:48 Quit BobShield (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
03:12:59JGabcdeAnd the manual doesnt say anything
03:13:42 Join midgey [0] (
03:15:20Soapdepends on the size of your font.
03:15:48Soapyou don't want to use a 13 pixel high font and a 20 pixel high icon set, mucho overlapo will ensureo
03:16:24JGabcdei tried all the icon packs i could fine and the icons just went back to the default
03:18:26JGabcdeWhat should I do?
03:18:48scorcheand how are you setting the icons?
03:19:52FebsWell, it took me about 15 seconds after loading Rockbox on the Gigabeat to set a black font on a black background
03:20:17rasherFebs: possibly a new record, you should look into that
03:21:09rasherWe call it the "Disaster area stuntship" theme
03:21:23JGabcdeWhat do you mean setting the icons?
03:22:32Febs"It's like, how much more black could it be? And the answer is none. None more black."
03:22:50RudManheh - that's why all themes should have a null backdrop line in their cfg if they don't set one
03:23:38RudManI got burned by that and started freaking out....thought I hosed it
03:23:54RudManof course I had rockbox loaded for maybe 48 hours at the time
03:25:27 Quit JGabcde ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
03:35:36 Join JGAbcde [0] (i=46177202@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
03:36:00JGAbcdewhos the one that said rockbox doesnt have radio!?
03:36:45scorchei dont believe anyone said that
03:36:58JGAbcdeok so how do i do that with my ipod
03:37:07scorcheyou dont
03:37:31rasherJGAbcde: The ipod does not have radio.
03:38:00JGAbcdeo that sucks and i read the manual and my icons still dont work
03:41:52 Quit JGAbcde ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
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03:58:17 Quit RudMan (Connection reset by peer)
04:08:19***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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05:00:36 Join Llorean [0] (
05:05:20 Join Icefire [0] (i=422482e5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
05:05:31IcefireDamn many people here!
05:06:14Icefirewhat is the lastest Sandisk Firmware? A or P ?
05:06:23RudMan_many people not talking you mean
05:06:58Icefirewell it's 11pm so it can be understood
05:07:20scorcheIcefire: that doesnt seem to be rockbox related to me...
05:08:06Icefirescorche: kinda, since I need to boot often to upload to rockbox, I want to stay up to date on that side too
05:08:41 Join qupada [0] (
05:09:06scorchejust because something is out of date, doesnt mean it wont work anymore
05:09:47 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
05:10:14IcefireI know but I heard the firsts firmware for e200 had problem
05:10:44Icefireand Sandisk updater say nothing to update but I doutb that since mine was built in 2006
05:10:49RudMan_it would have probably been quicker to google sansa e200 firmware than it would have to post here :P
05:12:00 Join Farp [0] (
05:12:14IcefireI looked at many page from e250 latest fireware and most are review or talk from people asking question
05:12:16 Quit qwm (Remote closed the connection)
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05:12:22qupadais anyone else having issues with the latest H10 builds? i'm getting "Data about at 00014044" with builds from the last couple of days
05:12:48IcefireAnyway, I'll come back tomorow, got 2 freeze up trying to play a mpg and needed to remove the battery
05:14:41 Quit qweru ("moo")
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05:44:59*scorche waits around for europe to wake up do he can go over a few things from the themes site...
05:52:17 Part Llorean
06:08:21***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:44:59*amiconn generated a sapi5 voice for h140 in less than 2 minutes ( running time) with proper wavtrimming
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08:08:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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08:50:40 Join GodEater [0] (n=bryan@rockbox/staff/GodEater)
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08:55:03 Join notgod [0] (
08:55:53scorcheit is a good thing you are notgod, because we have a GodEater
08:56:01 Join Genre9mp3 [0] (
08:56:28notgodit's a ruse.
08:57:12GodEaterI'm hungry
08:57:40notgod;) just curious... can I recover my old firmware on my 4th gen ipod if I try rockbox? how hard is it to strip DRM off my aac files? and lastly, can I install rockbox from OSX?
08:57:53notgodI am nottasty.
08:58:04GodEaternotgod: easy, offtopic, and yes
08:58:14scorchenotgod: the old firmware is still there; we dont discuss DRM removal here; yes
08:58:23notgodsweet,understandable,and great@
08:59:39scorchealright...well, the site is ready for deployment, i believe...just a few minor things...first off, what is preferred with the sidebar?
08:59:40notgodblargh,need to really find out how may AAC files I have. I mostly have MP3s.
08:59:56notgodnew site being deployed for rb?
09:00:06GodEaterrockbox themes
09:01:10scorcheB4gder: i am looking at you =) has the current version, but if anyone thinks changes need to be done...
09:01:26notgodoh, cool. man, i don't know if my ipod is fat32 or not. haha.
09:01:37scorchenotgod: well, one way to find out...
09:01:53GodEaternotgod: if you run osx it's likely it isn't
09:02:07GodEaternotgod: however we have a guide for converting it
09:02:22 Join bluebrother [0] (i=yXwjCKoY@rockbox/staff/bluebrother)
09:02:26B4gderscorche: nice
09:02:29GodEaterbtw - does RBUtil do that automatically yet ?
09:02:34*bluebrother wakes up
09:02:48notgodGodEater: I do, but I think I reformatted it on my wintendo a while ago. :) yeah, reading through the docs now.
09:03:01*amiconn pings rasher
09:03:09 Quit EnterUserName (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
09:03:09B4gderscorche: two quick things: the order of the builds should rather be the new one used on the site currently and I'd like to see the "new" pics used too for the small target builds
09:03:10notgodipod photo is 4g, right?
09:03:17GodEaternotgod: yes
09:03:17notgodI so scurred. :(
09:03:29GodEaternotgod - you'll be amazed how painless the install is
09:03:33scorcheB4gder: noted and already on the list =)
09:03:35 Join ender` [0] (
09:03:56amiconnnotgod: You'll want the ipod color version
09:04:04amiconn4g is for greyscale G4's
09:04:12bluebrotherscorche: I still have the icons around as zip −−
09:04:16B4gderscorche: and seeing your request for png only, can't you just use convert server-side to convert from whatever non-png format that might get submitted?
09:04:16bluebrotherif this helps you ;-)
09:04:23notgodamiconn: ok, but the docs are the 4g, right?
09:04:25B4gderconvert from imagemagick that is
09:04:41GodEaternotgod: you might like to try this :
09:05:03GodEaternotgod: and no - you want the docs for the color / photo too
09:05:05notgodmeh, I am backing up all my stuff then just going to go for it. :)
09:05:20notgodyeah, just saw that. was missing that last row of docs. doh.
09:05:35GodEaterrasher: around yet ?
09:05:55 Join TiMiD[FD] [0] (n=TiMiD[
09:06:08scorcheB4gder: i would imagine so, but i cant see a person making a theme and not being able to change to png real quick
09:06:46B4gdertrue, but it would make the submit screen feature a little less "please comply to this..." texts ;-)
09:07:01B4gdernot a biggie anyway
09:07:08*scorche checks to see if imagemagick is installed
09:07:15GodEaterthat could be milestone 2 :)
09:07:23scorcheit it isnt, and i need root to install it, it isnt going to happen anyway
09:07:47scorcheB4gder: keep in mind things can be added as well later...this is just the run to get it out there for the moment
09:07:50GodEaternot for the first time I wonder why we're hosting it somewhere that appears so hostile to our requirement
09:07:55bluebrothermaybe you have GD for stuff like this? But IMO this could come later.
09:08:14B4gderscorche: sure, I'm just rambling things that pop up, they certainly don't prevent "shipping" this
09:09:03B4gderwe want "" setup for this, don't we?
09:09:14scorchewe do
09:09:48notgodrb can play non-drm aac, right?
09:09:59notgodoh, yes, it says what it supports. nice
09:10:11scorcheGodEater: because it is already set up nicely, and we want people to be able to FTP in (at least for now) and do stuff easily
09:10:56notgodjipes, ftp. if you want help developing a submission system, I am a pretty good web app developer. Would be happy to donate some time.
09:11:12scorcheit is a submission system
09:11:31notgodI mean web-based, non-ftp. (I hate FTP. hah.)
09:11:36scorchewe just move things to/from our holding area from FTP
09:13:10notgodscorche: well, if there's anything else I can help on. :) I don't like doing anything other than PHP5, tho. And my UI skills are not good, but I can do great app development. :)
09:13:43scorchenotgod: well, it is in PHP5 and when the site goes live, the code will be in SVN and you are free to work on whatever you wish =)
09:13:59scorche is the wiki page about it that I need to update a bit more
09:15:10bluebrotherscorche: much work left until we go live?
09:15:19 Join Zagor [0] (n=bjorn@rockbox/developer/Zagor)
09:15:36scorchebluebrother: not much at all..minor fixes and whatever you guys can tell me to do =P
09:15:51bluebrothernice :)
09:17:48 Quit TiMiD[FD1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:18:27 Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
09:18:35larsemilmy problem is that it seems like there is NO battery what so ever in my ipod. as long as i have it connected to something it says its full battery, when i disconnect it dies directly. i can boot into diskmode, and i removed rockbox bootloader but still i dont get by the apple logo.
09:19:33larsemilso, is there a way in linux similar to apples restore utility
09:19:54Shaidhave you tried to run it using WINE?
09:20:03larsemilno i did not
09:20:03Shaidno idea if it'd work, but it's worth a shot.
09:20:33bluebrothersounds like a hardware issue to me.
09:20:34scorchelarsemil: there is a wiki page called something like ManualRestore
09:20:46scorchebut, doesnt sound like a firmware issue
09:20:52 Join hachi [0] (
09:22:46hachiI'm not having any luck with the 60/80 iPod version of rockbox... I've downloaded and extracted it onto the root of my ipod. Edit my ipodloader.conf to point to .rockbox/rockbox.ipod for a kernel, reboot and launch
09:22:59hachiand it says No partition found, connect USB cable and fix it
09:23:05linuxstb_larsemil: See
09:23:11 Nick linuxstb_ is now known as linuxstb (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
09:23:33hachiI can't read the version number during startup to make sure I'm running r14530
09:23:58 Join ksoze [0] (
09:24:01scorchego into the system menu
09:24:16hachiscorche: me?
09:24:20linuxstbhachi: Did you put the .rockbox folder on the FAT32 partition. Also, how did you format your ipod's FAT32 partition - mkfs is known to have issues.
09:24:35hachiscorche: can't find partition, rockbox refuses to go further said stuff before that
09:24:41scorchesee above =)
09:24:49hachilinuxstb: yes, and I have no idea how I formatted it
09:24:55hachihow can I check?
09:25:05linuxstbhachi: I mean what formatting program did you use?
09:25:16hachiI have no memory of the last time I formatted it
09:25:19hachihow can I check?
09:25:31linuxstbDo you have IPL installed?
09:26:05hachiyes, but I may have shrunk the partition on windows
09:26:38notgodI am so excited... I am so scarred. :)
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09:27:28hachialso, I don't see a thing about mkfs problems in the docs
09:27:46JdGordonhey all
09:27:51GodEaterhachi: its' in the wiki though
09:28:06linuxstbhachi: That's because using mkfs is not a normal part of a Rockbox install. It's mentioned here though -
09:28:08peturHi Jd
09:28:10hachiright... wiki, where does it say in the docs to read the wiki
09:28:12GodEaterhachi: we don't cover formatting your ipod in the manual - it's assumed your fat32 partition is good
09:28:33GodEaterhachi: it doesn't say in the docs to read the wiki, because most people don't need to format their ipods
09:28:43GodEaterhachi: because most people don't run ipodlinux
09:29:00linuxstbIn fact, it's not mentioned there...
09:29:16linuxstbBut it tells you to use mtools to format a 5.5g.
09:29:18ddaltonok I am trying to make the alarm on rockbox talk. how is it used?
09:29:18scorchethat link is mentioned in the manual, i believe
09:29:19hachihow was I supposed to find this information then?
09:29:25*ddalton will read the manual.
09:29:37morrijrhachi: google/search
09:29:38linuxstbhachi: You weren't - it's a problem with your IPL install (if that is indeed the issue here).
09:29:49GodEaterhachi: I'd have said google too
09:30:05notgodhachi: don't get upset −− it's free! contribute. suggest. but don't get mad. ;)
09:30:07linuxstbhachi: The Rockbox installation assumes (as GodEater said) a correctly formatted and working ipod.
09:30:26hachiwell this makes me sad, I have to wipe my ipod again
09:30:53notgodhachi: my ex wife is taking $2000 a month from me. Should I yell at you?
09:31:09morrijrhachi: could you put your experiences towards adding to the documentation so others don't need to search/ask?
09:31:12hachiwhat does that have to do with rockbox?
09:31:47GodEaterwhat does ipodlinux have to do with rockbox ?
09:32:08hachinothing that's the side issue
09:32:18linuxstbhachi: Are you using Linux (on your PC) ?
09:32:19hachithe thing is a fat32 partition formatted from mkfs causes problems
09:32:22hachiand it's not noted in the docs
09:32:44hachilinuxstb: on some, others are mac os, others are windows... I'm debating where I want to make my backup right now
09:32:57linuxstbhachi: That may not even be the issue... The ipod hasn't got as far as reading the filesystem yet.
09:33:00GodEaterit's only fat32 partitions over 30GB
09:33:06 Join lee-qid [0] (
09:33:06linuxstb^I mean Rockbox
09:33:20hachiwait... it's not?
09:33:30hachishould I stop formatting my ipod now?
09:33:38linuxstbhachi: In Linux, can you display the partition table of your ipod? If your ipod is /dev/sda, type "fdisk -l /dev/sda" and then paste the output to
09:33:53notgodhachi: I see it right in section 2.1
09:33:55larsemilso i successfully(i think) restored it, it rebooted and this bar went full up and then it rebooted. but my ipod is behaving like there is no battery in it. it does not charge.
09:35:40scorcheso no one has any issues/suggestions with the sidebar on, correct?
09:37:04JdGordonlooks ok to me
09:37:38ddaltonWell I was thinking of rewriting the alarm code. Any suggestions?
09:38:11JdGordonscorche: shouldnt there be a "for official build"?
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09:38:21linuxstbscorche: Personally I would prefer the sidebar to be the same as the other parts of * (i.e. standard), and have the themes navigation in a menu bar across the top - comparable to the wiki and forum navigation bars.
09:38:33markunrasher: I just noticed your rockbox translation page, nice work!
09:38:42scorcheJdGordon: official builds will work on any build
09:39:07JdGordonscorche: yeah, but I see AA themes in the "any build" which wont work on official only
09:39:20scorcheJdGordon: all themes are for testing purposes...they will be wiped
09:39:38markunrasher: I see a few places where the english original reads "none", how can I remove the translated entry?
09:40:21JdGordonscorche: no, I mean, shouldnt there be a section for themes which will only work on the official builds? or are we not hosting non-official-build themes anymore?
09:40:23linuxstbhachi: There is nothing obviously wrong with the partiton table, so that suggests that it's how the FAT32 partition has been formatted.
09:40:32scorcheJdGordon: official builds will work on any build
09:41:12JdGordon... then lots of themes are currently misplaced?
09:41:16scorcheerrr...themes that work on official builds will work for any build
09:41:23scorcheJdGordon: all themes are for testing purposes...they will be wiped
09:41:37linuxstbIIUC, the site will be empty when it launches ?
09:41:46*JdGordon apologises.... /me very tired and hungry
09:42:14scorcheyup...hence the "they will be wiped"
09:42:55hachiahh, a hex dump of my fat32 partition reveals that I made it with mkdosfs
09:43:28*JdGordon not so sure goign live with an empty site is such a good idea
09:43:43 Join CaptainSquid [0] (
09:44:10scorchewell, otherwise, is someone going to go through the entire site and correct each mistake?
09:44:46scorchethis way, authors correct their own themes/ other's themes and submit those
09:44:53markunrasher: never mind, I didn't read well :)
09:45:07linuxstbIsn't the issue also that we want to clarify the (C) and license of all uploaded themes?
09:45:39JdGordonscorche: will the old site still be avilable untill we get some themes into the new one?
09:46:01JdGordonalso, where do iconsets fit into the themes site?
09:46:17scorchelinuxstb: no...we are not checking for that anymore (legal things and us qualifying under safe harbour....checking for (c) would give us knowledge of the illegal material, and hence nullify that status)
09:46:36 Join LinusN [0] (i=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN)
09:47:07scorcheJdGordon: yes it will....and icons are free to be included along with a theme...for the moment, this is a theme repository...not an icon, cfg, wps, or font repository
09:47:16 Join Redbreva [0] (
09:47:24*scorche waves at Redbreva
09:47:47*Redbreva waves back
09:47:51JdGordonscorche: right, but eventually iconsets will be uploadable seperatly?
09:48:16scorcheJdGordon: if we decide to...that isnt part of the current plan though...the wiki seems just fine for those
09:48:20hachimtools just caused my raid box to panic
09:48:24JdGordonok, cool
09:48:29*JdGordon goes looking for food
09:48:45linuxstbscorche: ? Is there a log of that discussion?
09:49:33hachifrack.... that's gonna take days to rebuild now
09:49:35scorchelinuxstb: the copyright discussion?...there was a short one with me and B4gder, but i talked to a number of copyright attorneys to see about the best way to do this sort of thing
09:50:30scorchei dont know exactly when the short discussion was, but it was sometime after aug 5th
09:51:13linuxstbBut how can, for example, the uploader license the work under the CC if we don't know who the (C) holder is?
09:53:03GodEaterthe uploader becomes responsible for the license I would imagine
09:53:04scorcheif we are given notice of an infringement, we will act, but part of the agreement they go through says "that you have the right to put this work under this license"
09:53:14scorcheso, they are on their honor
09:53:14GodEaterso if their found to be licensing work under CC that they aren't the (C) holder for
09:53:18GodEaterthen it's their problem
09:53:30GodEaterand we pull the theme
09:53:31hachiAUGH... do I have any options beyond mtools? I get to wait 33 hours for my box to rebuild and I can use it again
09:53:51scorchelinuxstb: this might answer some of your questions
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09:54:35GodEaterhachi: mtools is the only posix software we know of which will create valid FAT32 partitions over 30GB in size
09:54:47hachi hurray, I'm screwed
09:54:50GodEaterhachi: your only other option is to format the partition under another OS
09:54:59GodEaterthere is a tool for windows which will do it
09:55:31hachido I have any options that don't include formatting? cause my mp3 repository is down for the next 33 hours now
09:55:34 Part qupada ("Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.")
09:56:08scorchelinuxstb: re: the side bar, do you think it is a thing that needs to be done before it goes live, or a thing to go on the To-Do list?
09:56:09GodEaterhachi: I don't believe so, looking at what linuxstb and you have discussed already
09:56:47JdGordonscorche: if its going to be rearranged, it should go in before going live
09:57:01linuxstbscorche: Is the site hosted in the US?
09:57:15GodEaterlinuxstb: yes it is
09:57:18 Quit CaptainSquid (Remote closed the connection)
09:57:20GodEaterI think :)
09:57:24linuxstbscorche: I don't think so - it's just a cosmetic issue.
09:58:12scorchelinuxstb: that isnt a big deal, as I am the acting admin and i am in the well, most other countries have a law that basically works the same way, or no law at all about it
09:58:16 Quit larsemil ("Lämnar")
09:58:51linuxstbscorche: So the idea is basically that will be under the control of users, and you're just a "service provider" ? is the same thing as google video for example
09:59:19 Quit lee-qid ("aufwiederbyebientotsayonara")
09:59:39linuxstbHmm, that seems a pretty major change in concept...
10:00:12scorchewhich concept is that?...there were many reasons for the switch
10:00:49linuxstbThe concept of having themes with clear (C) ownership and licensing terms. What other reasons were there?
10:01:29scorcheone of which was to take care of copyrighted material issue...this does that, but in a different way than you might imagine (us being granted harbour rather than us constantly patrolling)
10:02:24scorcheother reasons were getting rid of the mess-like-state of the wiki, being easier to find and submit themes (no more "how do i edit the wiki?"), integration with rbutil that wouldnt be possible with the wiki, etc
10:04:09JdGordonscorche: btw, there is a bug on the themes site with the hover text on the target pics
10:04:32scorcheJdGordon: there is? have to hover for a bit due to the nature of that...
10:04:44 Join pondlife [0] (
10:04:48scorcheit even says to be patient when you hover, i believe
10:04:51JdGordonthe bug is it says "ipod<br />nano"
10:05:53scorchewhere are you seeing this?
10:06:09JdGordonon the front page
10:06:22 Join atsea- [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-09d023ee8e15618f)
10:06:41*scorche doesnt get any hover text
10:06:56pondlifebluebrother: RBUtil minor bug report - the menu bar isn't displayed initially, resulting in an odd shifting of the window contents immediately after launching.
10:07:02pondlifeShall I FlySpray it?
10:07:05RedbrevaTry IE - the hover doesn't display in FF
10:07:19B4gderit needs to be title= for firefox
10:07:27B4gderfirefox doesn't "hover"-display alt texts
10:07:51scorcheis there a way to have it not show anything for IE liek it does for firefox?
10:08:20JdGordonscorche: fix the alt= text for the images I tihnk
10:08:25***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:08:27JdGordonthat will make it less bad
10:09:42scorchethere isnt an alt= per say.....the table is all dynamically generated
10:10:08scorchethat text is used to generate the bolded target text
10:11:13scorchewell, there is an alt= text, but it is dynamically generated from the same text as the title...lemme get a new var, i suppose
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10:20:35scorcheJdGordon: should be fixed
10:21:07 Quit qweru (Client Quit)
10:23:11linuxstbscorche: You still have the checkbox making the uploader confirm they have the right to upload the theme and license it under the Creative Commons - so I'm not sure what has actually changed... What questions did you remove from the submission form?
10:23:20Redbrevanot quite, all the 1st row have the same tag
10:23:31Redbreva2nd row the same tag, etc...
10:23:57 Join CaptainSquid [0] (
10:24:10scorcheLinusN: i dont quite get the "questions did you remove part"
10:24:23scorcheRedbreva: hrm...seems i can be cheap...
10:25:01notgodsuccess! :)
10:25:08scorchewhoops.... s/ LinusN / linuxstb
10:25:16B4gderthe cnet rockbox install on ipod video is nice
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10:26:19linuxstbscorche: I mean what changes did you make to the site following your legal discussions?
10:26:25notgodhow do I exit doom on my ipod? :)
10:26:26pondlifeB4gder: Pity it's not RBUtil-ized..
10:26:51B4gderonce rbutil goes truly official it'll be even nicer
10:27:00scorchelinuxstb: mainly the guidelines portion, and that we will no longet actively check for copyright violations
10:27:03JdGordonscorche: yep, fixed :)
10:27:09scorcheJdGordon: no it isnt
10:27:26JdGordonhehe.. no its not
10:27:49*JdGordon bbl
10:28:28 Quit BigBambi ("Leaving")
10:29:05scorche*now* it is fixed =)
10:29:22hachiis mtools doing a slow format of the disk?
10:30:17hachihard to tell from the syscalls
10:30:39scorchelinuxstb: are there other changes that i need to make that i may have missed?
10:30:42linuxstbscorche: OK, but if we're still asking all users to agree the themes can be redistributed under the terms of the CC, then shouldn't we also be asking for the name(s) of the copyright holders?
10:31:05scorchelinuxstb: as far as we know, they are the copyright holders
10:31:13notgodlinuxstb: ok, looked at that −− but I still can't figure out how to select a menu item. :)
10:31:32scorcheif we are informed that they lied to us, then we act
10:32:10notgodaha, got it!!
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10:36:24linuxstbscorche: No, we don't know anything about (C). All we know is that the uploader has stated that he/she has the right to upload it. How can you attribute work under the CC if you don't know the (C) holder?
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10:37:03scorchelinuxstb: they also say that they have the right to put the content under the CCattrSA license
10:37:35hachidoes rockbox have sleep support at this time (the answer was no last time I looked, and I don't see it anymore)
10:38:09 Quit bluebrother (Remote closed the connection)
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10:38:19scorchethe manual should say a bit about sleep
10:40:39Redbrevascorche: Add title='$Target' and the hover text works in Firefox too (thanks B4gder )
10:41:17scorcheRedbreva: i didnt see a need for the hover text, but for completeness, ok
10:45:07linuxstbscorche: My point is that the CC checkbox is pointless. A third-party can't comply with that license because they can't attribute the material to anyone. And speaking of attribution, I'm not familiar with the CC, but it states that "you must attribute work in the manner specified by the author". We don't give the authors the ability to specify that - or state a generic attribution method.
10:45:26linuxstbSo I guess I'm saying we should either remove the CC checkbox, or implement it more thoroughly.
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10:48:22scorchelinuxstb: i am still not quite following you...if they "have the right to put this work under this license", that implies that they either are the author or have permission of the author
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10:52:09scorchelinuxstb: as for the attribution part, we can simply tell them to put that in the zip in a txt file
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11:00:28B4gdermi4code 1.0.0 is out! (
11:00:40B4gdernothing really new or fun though ;-)
11:01:22scorcheB4gder: feel free to pitch in on any of this legal stuff if you see something that needs to be addressed
11:01:52B4gderI'm firmlt seated here in the backseat ;-)
11:02:49scorchei had a feeling you already decided that =P
11:03:04 Join tvelocity [0] (
11:04:13linuxstbscorche: Thinking through an example, if I wanted to take a theme uploaded to, modify it, and then upload it again to, the current site doesn't a) State what attribution I am required to make; b) Give me the ability to provide attribution to the original author(s); c) Give me the ability to state how I want my work to be attributed.
11:04:18hachiwell, that was lovely... enabled the db in rockbox, fool around a bit... hook ipod up to mac, mac acts like the drive has just been formatted
11:04:41hachiall the mp3s I loaded on in the last few minutes, the ipodload.conf file, .rockbox, all gone
11:04:45hachiis this a common occurance?
11:04:56linuxstbDid you unmount it cleanly?
11:05:06hachiit seemed like iTunes did it
11:05:21hachiI couldn't, I last had it plugged into a linux box
11:05:28hachithose things don't have an 'eject usb' command
11:05:42hachiI umounted, but that doesn't mean the buffers flushed
11:06:09linuxstbYes it does, and there is also a separate "eject" command.
11:06:23hachieject doesn't apply to usb port ejection
11:06:38hachithere isn't one in linux, best you can do is remove the usb modules from the running kernel
11:06:45scorchelinuxstb: how about if we declared the "default" attribution style (in the description) in the guidelines, and as for stating how you wish it to be attributed, that can go in a text file in the zip if they wish to change it from the "default"
11:06:47hachior maybe there's some way in /sys, I haven't looked
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11:07:03B4gderumount is fine
11:07:58hachiregardless, this would be the first time in like 10 years that an improperly unmounted device has caused the partition to wipe
11:08:37hachialso, since reformatting to the rockbox specs, plugging it into my mac seems to take a good 20-30 seconds of 100% read before it mounts the device
11:09:14linuxstbhachi: OK, it was just a simple question! And yes, my Mac is also extremely slow when mounting a FAT32 formatted ipod. I've yet to discover a solution.
11:10:14GodEaterthere bloody is an eject command in linux, and it definitely applies to the usb ports
11:10:34hachiread the manpage, it's for ejecting things like cdrom drives, zip drives, etc.
11:10:42hachiit doesn't disconnect the usb port and power it down
11:11:16hachiwhich is a perfectly valid operation, and is what windows does when you 'eject' a usb mounted device
11:11:24*petur wonders if he is the first user to register on B4gder's blog :)
11:11:34B4gderyou are!
11:11:42*B4gder celebrates
11:11:58*petur awaits moderation :)
11:12:03B4gderalready did that
11:13:14Nico_Pwow B4gder has a blog !
11:13:30B4gderI'm one of "those" now
11:13:37B4gderfeel free to point finger
11:13:49GodEaterhachi: then the manpage you're reading is wrong. An ipod is NOT marked as safe to disconnect unless you've run the eject command. Please don't act like you're an authority on the subject as you're clearly not.
11:13:54Nico_Pwe'll soon have to create "planet rockbox" :)
11:14:08hachiGodEater: I just read the source to eject like... SATURDAY
11:14:25hachiI was hacking on the ioctl for linux cdroms at the time
11:14:25scorcheB4gder: now you have to change all plaintext on your site to fancy stylized images and implement an enormous amount of ajax into your site =P
11:14:52hachithe manpage says nothing about eject for usb devices, it only applies to block devices
11:15:35linuxstbscorche: Just thinking about the principles for now (not how the site will work), I think we would want someone who uploads a theme based on another theme to at the very least state the name(s) of any other themes it is based on.
11:15:36hachiyou can eject block devices, cdrom drives and the like
11:15:44hachiyou can't eject usb ports with it
11:15:57hachigive an example of usage
11:16:27scorchelinuxstb: yes...that would be the "default" attribution, is to state that in the description
11:16:36GodEatereject /dev/sdb where sdb is your ipod device. I use it on a daily basis.
11:16:38linuxstbscorche: Exactly.
11:16:43hachisdb is a block device
11:16:46hachinot a usb port
11:16:57hachiit doesn't power down the usb port, you can get a voltmeter and confirm this fact
11:17:22bluebrotherpondlife: strange −− I don't get this. Are you on windows?
11:17:22Nico_Phachi: is it really necessary to power down the usb ?
11:17:53Nico_Phachi: I've been using eject <themountpoint> for a long time and never had a single problem
11:18:00GodEaterI'm not interested in the usb port power - I'm interested in whether your ipod is marked as safe to disconnect or not. and let me see - which one of us has the non-functional ipod. Oh that's right. You.
11:18:10hachimines fine
11:18:14hachiI already recovered it
11:18:50amiconnrasher: around?
11:19:16*bluebrother notices what pondlife is referring to
11:19:27scorchelinuxstb: so are we on equal ground now? (ie understand each other fully)
11:20:15Nico_PB4gder: your blog reminds me of what I was thinking earlier... wouldn't a news page be nice ? it could be like MajorChanges but with proper detail about things
11:20:46scorchea sort of rockbox blog for all devs?...i think that has been discussed a few times before
11:21:04Nico_PB4gder: and on a related note, have you considered hosting rahser's MajorChanges feed on ?
11:21:22Nico_Pscorche: that's not quite the idea but it could be nice
11:21:41 Quit desowin ("use linux")
11:21:50scorchewell, i believe the reasoning for not going that route is the lack of desire to blog by many devs
11:22:53bluebrotherI think it would be nice to have some kind of small blog in which one could like sum up various changes / recent development a bit
11:23:26LinusNhow stable is the new qt rbutil, and would it be possible to build a mac version asap?
11:23:38Nico_Pbluebrother: that's what I was suggesting
11:24:05bluebrotherLinusN: it works reliably for me (tested on windows and linux). Building a mac version shouldn't be a problem.
11:24:28bluebrotherbut I don't have access to a mac, so no chance for me to do it.
11:25:12Nico_Pbluebrother: I updated the french translation with the latest strings, but the translation util somehow decided to change one line per string
11:25:17Nico_Pso I didn't commit it
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11:30:25pondlifebluebrother: Yes, I'm on Windows 2000
11:30:43linuxstbscorche: I'm still not understanding what exactly has changed regarding protecting the site with "safe harbour". You seem to be saying that by the site not stating that it is monitored for copyright violations, we're safer?
11:30:51pondlifeIt seems to be doing an initial display before the menu bar is in place.
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11:33:38bluebrotherpondlife: hmm, that code is generated by designer. The ui is shown automatically.
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11:34:35pondlifeAny way to *not* show it automatically? Then programatically display when all ready?
11:34:38bluebrothermaybe it's w2k only?
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11:34:58pondlifeMaybe - so you don't see it?
11:35:00scorchelinuxstb: yes...because of the wording "a service provider shall not be liable for . . . infringement of copyright by reason of the storage at the direction of a user of material that resides on a system or network controlled or operated by or for the service provider . . . .
11:35:18bluebrotherI don't see it on linux. I'll try wxp later ...
11:35:24scorcheemphasis on *direction of a user*
11:36:21scorcheas well, "The transmission, routing, provision of connections, or storage is carried out by an automatic technical process"....the lawyer friend i talked to said that if you manually checked the themes over briefly for technical reasons, it is alright
11:40:29GodEaterbash weenies: how does one use the "for x in stuff" command, and explicitly supply a list of things in stuff? I've only ever done "for x in *", where * becomes all the files in the current directory ?
11:41:14linuxstbscorche: So for example, if someone uploads a Simpsons theme, what do we do?
11:41:51Nico_PGodEater: where would your list come from ?
11:41:52markunGodEater: for i in 1 2 3 4 5 ; do echo $i ; done
11:42:13GodEatermarkun: it's just a space seperated list of words then ?
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11:42:23Nico_PGodEater: it can be for i in `find -name blah`; do...
11:42:35GodEatermarkun: sweet :)
11:42:54Nico_PGodEater: newlines work too
11:43:18morrijrGodEater: seq 1 5
11:43:40GodEatermorrijr: that's useful too - but my word list isn't numbers :)
11:44:11morrijrsorry, just saw the sequence and knew that most folks don't actually know there's a seq command :)
11:44:12scorchelinuxstb: we check the zip to verify that it is in the correct layout and no junk files, transfer the theme over to the live site just like any other theme, then send them the accept mail just like we would for any other theme...we are not aware that they arent the author of the image and all its contents, as they told us they were
11:44:32linuxstbscorche: So we leave it on the site ?
11:44:37Nico_Pmorrijr: how would you do a loop in which a var is incremented ? like a classic C for loop ?
11:44:47scorcheif Fox sends us a takedown notice, then we act upon it
11:44:55morrijrNico_P: IIRC let i=i+1
11:45:02scorchelinuxstb: far as we know, they are not infringing
11:45:15markunmorrijr: I can't find a seq command here
11:45:24morrijrNico_P: the advanced bash scripting guide is very good
11:45:31morrijrmarkun: what platform?
11:45:42morrijrah, don't have sorry.
11:45:48Nico_Pmorrijr: yes, but sometimes it's hard to find one precise thing in it
11:46:12morrijrNico_P: true.
11:48:28linuxstbscorche: And what if a third party reports it?
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11:50:26scorcheoh...sorry..third part
11:51:05linuxstbSo the answer is yes.
11:51:23linuxstb"Once notice is given to the service provider, or in circumstances where the service provider discovers the infringing material itself, it is required to expeditiously remove, or disable access to, the material."
11:52:20linuxstbi.e. if we discover something is infringing, we're obligated to remove it. So I would read that as saying that we're still free to remove anything we notice as infringing.
11:52:21scorcheno...we immediately dismiss them as they are not the copyright owner and did not follow the correct format (if we dont investigate if it is truely infringing, we dont have knowledge that it is)
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11:52:41scorchebut yes...we are free to remove anything
11:52:47linuxstbscorche: So are you saying you would want to keep the Simpsons theme?
11:53:57linuxstbOK, then we differ... I don't think we should be hosting themes that are obvious copyright violations.
11:54:20scorchejust like a wiki, the theme repository is a user-driven site...the big difference is that rockbox was responsible for infringing content on the wiki, where we are under safe harbour on the new site
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11:56:00linuxstbI'm not talking about legal technicalities, just the fact that we've always said that takes (C) violation seriously. Was that just talk?
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11:57:18GodEaterlinuxstb has a point
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11:58:47LloreanWell, we if we have an "if anyone reports an apparent copyright violation, we will take down the theme until it can be determined if the appropriate permission was had" then whoever's verifying the theme can simply 'report' to themselves, and ask for some verification before allowing it to be posted.
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11:59:04*petur goes standing next to linuxstb
11:59:07LloreanI'm gonna have to agree that if it's an obvious violation, we shouldn't let it go up.
11:59:12scorchelinuxstb: so we should be personally investigating each image that looks like it might be copyrighted to make sure they dont have permission and/or are the author, thereby giving us liability of ANY infringement of the site?
11:59:44Lloreanscorche: See my above statement. We as a site don't investigate each image, but we investigate all reports.
11:59:58LloreanWouldn't that allow safe harbor to be preserved?
12:00:40scorcheyes...reports are a different story if they are filed in the correct manner (simply giving all information and not saying " looks like it could be infringing")
12:01:02LloreanWhat's all the correct information?
12:01:11Llorean"X copyrght is held by Fox"?
12:01:44delYsidI've added another backend (Cepstral swift) to the voice generation stuff. How do I submit the patch such that it gets into SVN?
12:01:56scorchealthough, i would accept a third party report as something to be investigated
12:02:03linuxstbscorche: I'm just saying that if any of us spot any obvious copyright violations we should take the theme down.
12:02:28*JdGordon agrees
12:02:36Lloreanlinuxstb: And I'm agreeing very strongly.
12:03:02pixelmadelYsid: usual procedure is posting it to the patch tracker and nagging devs (here) ;)
12:03:02scorchelinuxstb: if you report it as a user, then fine...but as a provider, we cannot be wondering whether xxxx mgith be infringing or not
12:03:07JdGordonbut doesnt that imply that we are checking the images of every submission?
12:03:07Lloreanscorche: I think we should just say that "if anyone reports an apparent copyright violation you may be asked to show you have the appropriate copyrights for your WPS before it is returned to the index"
12:03:09linuxstbscorche: That's why I used the SImpsons as an example - you can't get any more obvious than that.
12:03:30Lloreanscorche: Then anyone who spots an obvious one can take it down and ask for more information without us saying we investigate (and accept liability) for everything posted.
12:03:37scorcheJdGordon: yes it does, which is why it is very important to ahve the user/provider separation
12:04:25JdGordonso, in that case. shouldnt the submissions be checked by a script so we cant say we purposly let something obviously infringing through.
12:04:27linuxstbscorche: I have no problem with user/provider separation. But you seemed to be saying that if a user reported a Simpsons theme you would ignore that report?
12:05:00LloreanJdGordon: We want scripts anyway, but nobody's written them yet.
12:05:26scorchelinuxstb: i said a few lines up that i would take a third party report as something to be investigated provided it includes all pertinent information
12:06:41linuxstbscorche: Then I think we're all agreeing again.
12:06:53JdGordon... we cant have that!
12:06:55scorche"investigation" as i refer to it would include us asking the author if he has the permission of the author and/or if he made the image himself and didnt use copyrighted works
12:08:14scorchedepending on if he linked us to an identical image or not
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12:10:31linuxstbdelYsid: Upload the patch to flyspray -
12:11:43The-CompilerHi there
12:12:04GodEaterbash weenies again: why does the bash man page state that the format for the "for" command is "for x in stuff;do things;done"? This works on the command line, but in a shell script, the second ";" is treated as a syntax error.
12:12:39linuxstbGodEater: Can you paste your script?
12:13:37 Quit The-Compiler (Client Quit)
12:13:44GodEaterI had to remove that latter ";" to get it to work
12:14:05linuxstbThe one at the end of line 3?
12:14:26GodEaterno - the one which should preceed "done"
12:14:31GodEateraccording to the bash man page that is
12:14:32B4gderGodEater: the semicolon is there instead of a newline when you do them on a single line
12:14:41GodEaterB4gder: ah - that simple
12:14:46GodEaterso I don't even need the first one really
12:14:55GodEaterthank you
12:15:13linuxstbIt seems "; ls" is a syntax error, but "ls ;" is OK...
12:15:58GodEaterman these files are huge
12:16:07*linuxstb doesn't fully understand the bash syntax...
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12:16:45GodEaterit does seem a little inconsistent at times
12:17:33ddaltonanyone interested in an update for p7525?
12:17:44delYsidwell, "; ls" is invalid because of the empty command before ;. ":; ls" is valid though :)
12:17:53GodEaterapologies for the off topic chatter. Normal service may now be resumed.
12:19:26morrijrGodEater: you shouldn't need the one at the end of the for line either. CR counts as a command seperator unless preseded with a \
12:20:00GodEatermorrijr: I think I said that earlier when B4gder explained
12:20:16morrijrGodEater: sorry, must make this window bigger!
12:20:45B4gderbetter make it full-screen so that work won't interfere with it!
12:21:00morrijrlol - yeah, that's the heart of the matter
12:23:23scorcheIs there anything that still needs to be addressed (including things you suggested that i havent changed yet in case i forgot) re: the new themes site?
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12:24:52linuxstbdelYsid: So why is "ls;" valid? Isn't there an empty command after the ; ?
12:28:01*scorche takes the silence to mean that we can begin to make the site live
12:28:32Lloreanscorche: Don't worry, if we think of anything later, we'll be sure to blame you for taking it live now. :-p
12:28:40scorcheoh!... linuxstb: did you still want a copy of the code to double check that it is secure before it goes live?
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12:29:16scorcheLlorean: as expected...tonight should be the thick of the grilling though =)
12:30:01linuxstbscorche: Sure, but I'm not sure I'll have time to look at it today.
12:30:39scorchelinuxstb: as long as it is sometime in the next week or so, it should be good
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12:47:28delYsidWhen using voice navigation (I'm blind) can I turn off my LCD altogether to save power?
12:47:39Nico_PdelYsid: yes
12:47:55Nico_Pat least the backlight... what DAP do you have ?
12:48:08delYsidSansa e280
12:48:56scorchethe LCDs dont take much power...the backlight is the real drain...and on some devices, the lcd isnt updated when the backlight is off
12:50:55delYsidwell, I read FM tuner quality can be degenerated by LCD updates. SO I was thinking why not disable them...
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13:04:09pneumatichey guys, im new to rockbox
13:04:49pneumaticguys, with rockbox
13:05:15pneumaticif i dont want it anymore do i just run the itunes ipod factory defaults function
13:05:39scorchethere are uninstallation procedures in the manual
13:06:14preglowwhat are your feelings on trading precision off for speed by default in codecs?
13:06:31scorchethat will remove rockbox, but is akin to killing a mosquito with a cannon
13:07:02preglowlinuxstb: did you get anywhere else with the i2s stuff yesterday, btw?
13:07:26linuxstbpreglow: I didn't try anything. But reading the logs, didn't amiconn get somewhere?
13:07:36Lloreanpreglow: In general?
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13:08:27preglowLlorean: well, yeah, i'm looking at the musepack patch here that trades some precision for speed on arm
13:08:35preglowLlorean: i doubt people can hear a difference, though
13:08:58LloreanYeah, if people can't here the difference (or are unlikely to without a special setup) I don't really see it as "bad
13:09:07preglowi'm really not all that keen on having the codecs produce different output on different targets, but i also don't want to say no to better battery life
13:09:18LloreanThough I'd prefer it only be done in situations where there's a real gain (targets where music skips with peakmeters or while in plugins) rather than as a general policy.
13:09:24linuxstbpreglow: Would it actually have a noticable affect on battery life?
13:09:35preglowlinuxstb: i'm not at all sure, i don't see why not, if we've done our stuff properly
13:09:43LloreanYou'd need a pretty good boost reduction to gain measurable battery life on iPods right now
13:09:53preglowless time spent in decoding -> fewer cycles spent -> more battery
13:10:09delYsidpreglow: I'd prefer an option, my ears are pretty good and I'd like to decide for myself if I want to trade battery life for quality.
13:10:13linuxstbpreglow: Sure, but I think I would like to see the results of an actual runtime test.
13:10:21LloreanBeing boosted vs unboosted only makes something like a 30% difference in battery drain if I remember the measurements.
13:10:23LloreanMaybe less
13:10:38LloreanSo a 5% boost reduction is only going to get us something like a 1.5% increase in battery life?
13:11:03LloreanActually I think those numbers were for boost/unboost on the sansa.
13:11:43LloreandelYsid: "my ears are pretty good" doesn't mean you'll be able to hear it, a lot of time loss of precision is below the level the cheap portable DACs can output reliably anyway.
13:11:47preglowi really can't be bothered to do any runtime tests
13:11:58preglowso i guess i'll just commit the patch with the speed opt disabled for now
13:12:07amiconnLlorean: That's not entirely true. Regardless of whether unused functional units in the PP are disabled or enabled, it shows a pretty linear MHz->power consumption dependency
13:12:28preglowLlorean: afaik, the loss of precision here is on the order of the last bit
13:12:38preglowi'd be surprised if anyone could hear that
13:12:43Lloreanpreglow: Do we know the boost% gain?
13:12:46amiconnAnd the PP is the next biggest power sucker after the backlight
13:12:59preglowi'll check it out
13:13:12amiconn(*especially* with the unused functional units enabled)
13:13:13Lloreanamiconn: Wouldn't a 3:1 ratio between boost% reduction and battery life increase be "linear"?
13:13:51amiconnThe mapping isn't linear. You need to calculate the effective MHz from the boost percentage
13:14:25amiconnSo if you have 50% boost on ipod, the effective clock is 55MHz
13:14:36LloreanAh, yes, because unboost isn't 0
13:14:37preglowargh, the bloody usb hang
13:15:34LloreanStill, my point was more or less "small boost gains aren't going to get a significant battery life increase, so if there is a chance they'll be audible and it's in a codec that already is unlikely to skip, I'm generally against it"
13:16:05LloreanBut least significant bit type stuff isn't a big deal, most people have already lost that somewhere anyway
13:16:42preglowargh, the codec linker bug :/
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13:18:47LloreanI mean people do expect Rockbox to "improve" sound quality, so we don't need to hand them too many placebos. ;)
13:20:04preglowboost ratio goes from 253.37% -> 340.59% for a 140 kbps file
13:20:28LloreanThat's a pretty big improvement
13:20:30*Llorean votes for it.
13:20:44linuxstbpreglow: Would that be the kind of thing to make a global setting? i.e. to specify speed vs accuracy. Would it be even be feasible to make it a run-time setting?
13:21:00preglowlinuxstb: sure, don't see why not, it's just a question of code structure
13:21:04Lloreanlinuxstb: Maybe a #AUDIOPHILE define while building?
13:21:12preglowbut i don't know whether we'd want it or not
13:21:26preglowit's hard to say where to stop trading off accuracy
13:21:48preglowanyway, then, i'll be commiting this, with a big fat message that arm targets now have somewhat less accuracy
13:21:55amiconnWell, several other codecs already sacrifice the lsb
13:21:55linuxstbAgain, I think it comes down to what the real-life runtime difference would be.
13:21:56preglowand encourage people to report if they can hear a difference
13:22:00preglowamiconn: many
13:22:51Lloreanlinuxstb: I think going from 2.5x to 3.4x realtime is probably going to make a measurable difference. At the very least it'll make it easier to use the EQ and other things.
13:23:53preglowi haven't got a chance in hell to tell the difference here, that's for sure
13:24:14linuxstbLlorean: Isn't 2.5% already enough for the EQ?
13:24:27*linuxstb seems to recall having this discussion months ago...
13:25:11Lloreanlinuxstb: It's enough, I think. But then someone wants to play jewels.
13:25:56preglowi'll have a chat with the musepack people to see if they're interested in adapting some of this patch too
13:26:03preglowthere are actualy accuracy improvements in it as well
13:26:42LloreanI think as long as it's unlikely people will hear it, it's probably fine.
13:28:09preglowwe'll soon find out if they do
13:28:35linuxstbpreglow: I think I agree that in this case, go for speed... As you say, we can always revert to high accuracy if there's a strong demand.
13:28:59preglowit's worth finding out what people think about the issue anyway
13:29:00linuxstbWhat was the musepack developer's view on it?
13:29:07preglowi'm sure someone (at least from the musepack dev camp) will holler
13:29:17preglowthey're sceptical, but they're a weird bunch anyway ;)
13:29:22preglowSeed: hiya
13:29:45preglowi'm gonna have a chat with them about adapting parts of the patch soon anyway
13:32:08preglowanyway, this patch speed up coldfire as well (for some reason)
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13:37:31jeegerHey, is it normal that the iPod is switched on when charging?
13:37:44linuxstbYes. It's like that in Apple's firmware.
13:37:56*jeeger bangs head against wall
13:38:04jeegerThat was a swift retaliation^^
13:39:07amiconnMost targets do that, not just ipods. A very few don't (like the iriver H1x0s)
13:39:15jeegerBut judgement on the endless rebooting with idle poweroff is still out, right? The bug report was a bit inconclusive.
13:39:40jeegerA solution would be to simply switch off idle poweroff when on some sort of wall power.
13:40:07linuxstbIIUC, idle poweroff shouldn't happen when the device is charging. Maybe the 5g isn't correctly detecting charging.
13:40:51jeegerYeah, it charges only via USB, so perhaps rockbox thinks it's not charging, but in disk mode or something.
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13:40:58linuxstbDo you get a "charging" icon when it's charging?
13:41:17linuxstbThen that explains it.
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13:41:23jeegerBut the battery status is "charging"
13:41:39jeegerSo rockbox does not correctly detect charging on the iPod 5G?
13:41:52Lloreanlinuxstb: USB chargers haven't been properly entering "charger" mode for some time now, I think. At least for some people
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13:42:03Lloreanjeeger: It correctly detects it, or you'd reboot instantly
13:42:32Lloreanlinuxstb: Started about the same time peoples iPods started rebooting even if they held Menu while inserting a PC USB cable, I believe
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13:43:18jeegerCould someone point me to the svn for rockbox and the code part that is responsible for charging detection?
13:43:28Lloreanjeeger: The problem is that even though it's charging, Rockbox doesn't go into "charging" status (use different backlight timeout, show charging icon, etc)
13:44:03jeegerBut why not^^?
13:44:13linuxstbjeeger: Because no-one has implemented it...
13:44:32linuxstbCan you go into the Debug->View IO Ports screen and see what values change when you attach your charger?
13:44:33amiconnRockbox handles usb power a little different from normal charger power (which would be firewire power in case of ipods)
13:44:44jeegerfound svn
13:44:55jeegerlinuxstb: moment
13:46:33jeegeramiconn: Problem is that the 5G ipods don't have a firewire cable and a firewire charger, and firewire is disabled
13:47:09jeegerlinuxstb: As far as I can see, nothing changes
13:47:56linuxstbjeeger: You're using a USB charger connected to a wall socket?
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13:48:21preglowok, that was that
13:48:23preglowgym time, then
13:49:33jeegerLike this (sorry for the german)
13:52:37jeegerlinuxstb: I just noticed: GPIO_L changes from 28 to 38
13:53:28jeegerAnd GPIO_E from 20 to 21
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13:54:04linuxstbHmm... The check in the code is for a different bit in GPIO_L - see the charger_inserted() function in firmware/target/arm/ipod/power-ipod.c IIUC, it's that function that stops the idle poweroff.
13:55:36jeegerI actually have an iPod video.
13:55:38amiconnjeeger: 5G can charge fine from a firewire charger (and faster than from usb)
13:55:56jeegeramiconn: But no firewire cable with new ipods :'-(
13:56:08linuxstbjeeger: Yes, I know you have an ipod video.
13:56:37jeegerlinuxstb: So i'll check if the same bits (or more) change when I get a USB connection
13:58:44jeegeryep, the exact same changes.
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14:02:36jeegerIIUC, the charger_inserted function always returns true with my false with my ipod, since both 28 and 38 have the fourth bit set
14:02:47jeegersorry, always returns false
14:03:14amiconncharger_inserted() detects the main charger pin (i.e. firewire charger)
14:03:24amiconnUSB charging is detected elsewhere
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14:03:53amiconnSo powermgmt needs fixing, not charger detection
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14:05:31jeegerthat would be the usb_powered function, right?
14:05:43amiconnShould be, yes
14:06:48jeegerArgh. This looks a bit more complicated0_0
14:08:13linuxstbamiconn: Do USB chargers work on other (non-ipod) targets?
14:08:30***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
14:08:37jeegerI was just wondering
14:10:23linuxstbIIUC, "usb_state" is only being set to USB_POWERED if the user is holding the "charge" button whilst inserting USB.
14:11:22jeegerif((button_status() & ~USBPOWER_BTN_IGNORE) == USBPOWER_BUTTON)
14:11:27jeegerThis looks like it.
14:11:32jeegerBut what is the charge button?
14:11:54jeegeron an ipod
14:11:55linuxstbIt's a button you can hold when attaching your device to a computer via USB so that it charges, rather than enters disk mode.
14:12:02linuxstbIt's MENU on the ipods.
14:12:12 Quit atsea- (Remote closed the connection)
14:12:28jeegerSo I should get charging mode if I hold menu when connecting the iPod. I'll try that out.
14:12:59linuxstbI would expect that to only work when connecting to a computer, not to a charger.
14:13:13jeegerI tried it with the computer, it works.
14:13:14linuxstbWhen you connect to a charger, a USB connection isn't detected.
14:13:49jeegerNope, just works for a short time. The iPod reboots and enters disk mode
14:14:33linuxstbYes, that's another reported bug... You may need to hold MENU for a few (maybe 10 or more) seconds.
14:16:01linuxstbMaybe the computer retries the connection, and that triggers a positive detection...
14:17:11jeegerYeah, dmsg gives me several read errors, that points to a retry
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14:18:06amiconnlinuxstb: Yes, on a few (but not all). And most targets with a hw bridge cannot distinguish an usb charger from an usb port, so you always have to use the usb power button
14:18:40 Quit Febs ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
14:19:03jeegerIs that the USBPOWER_BTN_IGNORE mask?
14:22:08linuxstbamiconn: OK. I think the current issue is that usb_detect() on PP returns false when a charger is connected, so the current state will never be USB_POWERED.
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14:31:21austriancoderpetur: ping
14:31:22peturhi austriancoder
14:31:22petursaw my mail?
14:32:03austriancoderpetur: yes... i am using command verifyer some days ago and I am fixing all problems
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14:32:42austriancoderpetur: using interrupts... I dont know.. need to have a talk to jhMikeS
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14:33:19peturwindows already reported it saw an UMS, and failed to install the driver (wanted reboot,etc) - probably caused by the dummy id?
14:34:47austriancoderpetur: no scsi commands are handeld.. have some basic stuff at my pc but I need some hours to have it commitable..
14:34:48peturaustriancoder: check today's log around 1:05, jhMike tried to tell something there but I was half asleep already ;)
14:35:57austriancoderpetur: Can i use an own thread in an usb device driver? I want to have a worker thread which to the real stuff.. reading ata sectors,.. and it gets it commands from the storage device driver
14:37:15peturI don't know how it is handled now, in the main thread I guess...
14:37:37peturthat would probably do it for now too?
14:37:47austriancoderit should
14:38:22austriancoderpetur: i will switch back to interrups if everything works as expected.. is this okay for you?
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14:41:28*austriancoder _must_ no go shopping with his girlfirend :/
14:42:22peturget married, then she'll go alone :p
14:42:46petur(this strategy does have a bad financial aspect)
14:43:16austriancoderi am too young to get married... ;)
14:43:20austriancodersee ya later
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14:46:06*petur wonders about the effect of $2000 on austriancoder and the shopping habbits of his girlfriend :)
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14:48:19jeegerIs there some guide on getting into rockbox codinG?
14:49:01linuxstbNot really... There are some docs in the wiki, but mostly it's a case of read, learn, and ask other devs.
14:49:11jeegerhm thought so^^
14:50:16jeegerBecause I like the idle shutdown, but not the ability not to charge up to 100%
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14:58:47jeegerAnyway, I'll be off. Maybe I'll come back
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15:01:55JdGordonanyone have any ideas about what to do with the SYSFONT lang ids? and the screens requiring them?
15:02:49amiconnThe screens need to be fixed not to use the sysfont
15:03:03JdGordonobviously.... ideas how though?
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15:04:36*petur suggests viewports and runs
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15:04:47JdGordonwouldnt really help here though
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15:05:11peturwhere's here?
15:05:16linuxstbWhich screens are we talking about?
15:05:19JdGordonhere, there, everywhere
15:05:23JdGordonpitch screen mostly
15:05:29rasherRecording for one
15:05:31JdGordonand quickscreen if the user font doesnt fit
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15:05:44JdGordonrec screen should get wps-ified :)
15:06:21rasherThe _SYSFONT_ strings also inflate the voice files by quite a bit
15:06:31peturbut why change now if viewports are coming (and have another code change)
15:06:48linuxstbHow would viewports help?
15:06:50*JdGordon wonders how much prodding viewports is going to take...
15:07:11peturnot as much help as change the way things can be done
15:07:19amiconnIt doesn't have to do with prodding, but with limited coding time and priorities
15:07:51peturamiconn: apply for GSoC next year ;)
15:07:53*JdGordon once again offers his coding time if someone writes up the way they rekon it should work
15:07:55amiconnI know viewports are important, but low-level things working properly even more
15:08:02markunjhMikeS: what do you think about fs#7487?
15:08:25amiconnpetur: (1) I'm not a student, so that's probably impossible. (2) I won't register with google. period.
15:08:40JdGordonNico_P: how simple would getting the wps token handling code working with the rec/fm screen be?
15:08:55markunamiconn: I would also prefer better battery life for ipods than viewports (even if I don't have an ipod)
15:09:31*petur is a happy google user as long as they offer free bandwidth and storage :)
15:09:50*JdGordon agrees with petur
15:11:37markunamiconn: yes, come over to the dark side :)
15:11:43Nico_PJdGordon: not too hard but we'd need to separate WPS tokens from WRS tokens
15:11:59Nico_Pthe parser would be the same obviously
15:12:34Nico_Pmost of the drawing code could be the same too
15:13:11JdGordonit would need its own buffers though right? reusing the wps ones would slow down swithing too much?
15:14:30Nico_PJdGordon: yeah, you'd need to reload the WPS if you used the same buffer.
15:15:31JdGordonI wonder who would be in favour of offering a really stripped down version of the wps for the archos' so we could get rombox going again
15:15:57Nico_Pwhat do you mean by that ? disabling some tokens ?
15:16:00JdGordonthen have 2 versions of the radio screen for the same reason
15:16:06JdGordonNico_P: yeah, and images
15:16:21JdGordon#ifdef HAVE_UBERFANCYGUI
15:16:40JdGordonor #ifdef HAVE_LOOKS_BUT_NO_BRAINS ?
15:17:18linuxstbBut doesn't that mean we would still have the existing problems (i.e. sysfont) for the !HAVE_UBERFANCYGUI ?
15:17:50JdGordonyes, probably
15:18:04Nico_Pwhat exactly is the sysfont problem ?
15:18:18JdGordonforcsing ascii only letters on some screens
15:18:44JdGordonbut i sort of moved on from that already :p
15:19:20parafinwhere i can find version string in source?
15:19:22amiconnThe tokens itself seem to be pretty efficient
15:19:28Nico_PJdGordon: disabling some tokens would probably give a nice code size decrease
15:19:32parafinwhich displayed during boot
15:19:44bluebrotherparafin: you can't ... it's generated during build
15:19:47*JdGordon remembers dropping 1k or somethign when the rtc tags were disabled
15:19:53bluebrothercheck for calls.
15:19:59Nico_Pamiconn: the token code you mean ?
15:20:02JdGordonparafin: version.h has the variable you proabbly are after
15:20:06amiconnGetting rid of the LANG_SYSFONT cruft and then limiting the sysfont to ascii only will most probably save more
15:20:44JdGordonI thought sysfont was already ascii only? thats why the SYSFONT langs were needed?
15:20:47amiconnNico_P: I mean that each individual token doesn't add very much code
15:20:59amiconnJdGordon: No, sysfont is iso8859-1
15:21:26amiconnSo you need LANG_SYSFONT for non-latin languages
15:22:06amiconnAnd yes, viewports will make the transition to the UI font easier
15:22:30JdGordonpart of the problem is too much text on the screen for large fonts
15:22:31amiconnThere are 2 obvious cases: (1) quickscreen. (2) button bar
15:23:18amiconnThe quickscreen staggers the text for Left and Right, because otherwise rather long texts would overlap
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15:23:53amiconnWith viewports, every text would just get assigned one half of the screen - and it would scroll _within_ that area if it's long
15:24:06amiconn-> no stagger -> less lines
15:28:20*linuxstb reads about the Rockbox sim running on a phone -
15:31:19JdGordonlooks like we might have an excuse to make the sim more of a target soon...
15:32:33bluebrothermore of a target?
15:33:16bluebrotherbah ...
15:33:51linuxstbI think there's a place for both though - the existing sim, and a specific SDL (or whatever) target.
15:33:54JdGordonwell.. now we know it for sure works... PSP, gp2x, ... all very possible
15:34:24Nico_PJdGordon: I've been looking at the WPS code again and the thing is we'd nee something like enum wrs_token_type
15:34:47Nico_Pbut the other structs in the code want enum wps_token_type... maybe an union could do
15:35:03*Nico_P will be back in a sec
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15:36:47JdGordonNico_P: I dont think so... why not tack them on the end of that enum?
15:36:59JdGordonand have a WPS_LAST_WPS_TOKEN sperating them?
15:37:24LinusNbluebrother: i have an issue with rbutil-qt
15:37:25peturlinuxstb: from what I read on the last pages, he's moving already away from SDL. Didn't see him offer any files (both exe and source)
15:37:47bluebrotherLinusN: tell me about it
15:37:48Nico_PJdGordon: doesn't feel very clean to me
15:38:04JdGordonNico_P: feels less of a hack than what your suggesting...
15:38:06Nico_Pwe'd want the WRS tokens with the recording screen code if it exists
15:38:11parafinbluebrother, thanx, i found it
15:38:21linuxstbpetur: There's a download at the top of the first page. But yes, I didn't see any source.
15:38:22LinusNthe only cowon player is the X5V
15:38:44LinusNlots of empty rows in the device selection list
15:39:29bluebrotherhmm. Do you have a rbutil.ini file in the program folder?
15:39:51LinusNah, maybe i have an old one there, i'll delete it and try again
15:39:52JdGordonNico_P: I think if we can keep the same code for everything except token->text happening it would be great
15:39:59Nico_PJdGordon: true but actually maybe struct wps_token can be made more generic with type being an int instead of an enum wps_token_type
15:40:21JdGordonno, the enum is good.. just rename it...
15:40:34*JdGordon doesnt see a problem having them all in one enum
15:40:38bluebrotherhmm, maybe the name of that file should be changed.
15:40:42LinusNbluebrother: much better now :-)
15:40:48bluebrothergreat :)
15:41:08amiconnLinusN: Speaking about X5V - we need that radio detection...
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15:41:22LinusNnag nag :-P
15:41:30bluebrotherhehe ;-)
15:41:33JdGordonNico_P: we could maybe add a flag to the enum for the different screens...
15:41:43JdGordongimme a sec to get something into pastbin....
15:42:08Nico_PJdGordon: well if everything is in the same enum, we can just have WPS_TOKEN_* and WRS_TOKEN_*
15:43:03LinusNbluebrother: one small thing: the installation progress log doesn't seem to be updated
15:43:25*JdGordon would like WPS_* REC_* and WFM_* ... or something
15:43:50LinusNit displays "downloading the file", and then stays there until all files are extracted, and then you see the rest of the text
15:44:00bluebrotherah, that's intentional.
15:44:19bluebrotherthe unzip class unfortunately doesn't give use any progress information
15:44:32Nico_PJdGordon: what would WFM stand for ?
15:44:40bluebrotheror do you miss the "extraction file" when extraction starts?
15:44:41JdGordonwhile fm?
15:44:41LinusNit should at least say "download finished" before extracting, shouldn't it?
15:44:54bluebrotherit should. /me goes checking
15:44:59JdGordoncant use While Radio Screen if we use While Rec Screen
15:45:10*JdGordon btw hates the WPS term :p
15:45:26Nico_Phave a better one ?
15:45:32LinusNi only see "downloading", and then the 4 remaining lines come at the same time, when the installation is done
15:46:35JdGordonNico_P: no :p
15:46:38goffawow... i don't know what sansa's run.. but this looks cheap
15:46:55goffawell $18
15:47:47low_lightI have a target tree question about the best way to add the sansa c200 port since it shares much in common with the e200...
15:47:57low_lightthe only new files for the c200 are for it's lcd & buttons
15:49:08*low_light hears a fire alarm
15:49:20LinusNbluebrother: it crashes when i exit :-(
15:49:23JdGordonlow_light: dump em in with the rest of the sansa code then?
15:49:51bluebrotherurgh :(
15:49:57JdGordonlow_light: I wonder, could the differences be detected at runtime? so we only have one build for both of them?
15:50:50low_lightJdGordon: the lcd & buttons are totally different
15:52:07LinusNbluebrother: it crashes if i try to autodetect twice
15:52:18LinusN(btw, it fails to autodetect my x5)
15:52:43low_lightI thought I could either make a combined target directory or move the common files into the sandisk dir
15:53:01bluebrotherdoes the x5 have Rockbox already installed? I.e. is rockbox-info.txt present?
15:53:13LinusNi installed it with rbutil
15:53:19JdGordonlow_light: I'd do the first, but im lazy... the second is probaly better
15:53:32B4gderlow_light: I think the common ones can be put in the sandisk dir
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15:53:59B4gderat least as a start
15:54:11LinusNbluebrother: rockbox-info.txt is there
15:54:12Nico_PJdGordon: you made me want to code when I should be working on math :)
15:54:28LiquidDragonHey, do you guys think you could help me out
15:54:33LinusNand it says Target: x5 on the first line
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15:54:39JdGordonNico_P: hehe, no.. you should be coding mob anyway!
15:54:53Nico_Pthat too
15:55:06JdGordonLiquidDragon: left at the first street, then straight for 300m... then first right
15:55:25Nico_PJdGordon: if you want to make the WPS tokenizer code generic, feel free
15:55:57bluebrotherLinusN: ah −− I bet rbutil looks for some different value
15:55:58linuxstbLiquidDragon: You need to ask a question before people can help (sensibly...)
15:56:03LiquidDragonWhen i hold the play/pause button it shuts down but when i went to use it 8 hours later it was down to 21% battery
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15:57:04LiquidDragonIt says it is shutting down and then turns off but why is it still using battery?
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15:59:39low_lightB4gder: at first I thought that was best, but now I'm not sure...that would leave only lcd & button files in the e200 and c200 directories
16:00:00B4gderhm, right...
16:00:17low_lightI think maybe a combined taget (like ipod 1g2g) might be best
16:00:27B4gderyes, it seems so
16:00:37JdGordonwhats wrong with having a folder with only a fw files?
16:01:42LiquidDragonanyone have any ideas?
16:01:51amiconnlow_light: I see no problem in just 2 files being really target specific
16:02:22amiconnThe 1g2g is combined because ipodpatcher cannot distingiush G1 and G2. Apple also uses a combined firmware
16:02:53linuxstblow_light: Do you mean a combined target as in a single build?
16:03:10amiconnfirmware/target/arm/ipod/video even has a single file only
16:03:12low_lighthmm...if I move them up what would I name them...ata-sandisk (what about the next sandisk target) or ata-e200_c200?
16:04:01low_lightlinuxstb: different builds, but one target directory.
16:04:08amiconnrasher: around now?
16:04:12linuxstblow_light: Then the 1g2g is a bad example - it's a single build.
16:05:16low_lightmaybe ata-microsd ?
16:06:16bluebrotheriaudio x5 and x5l are the same builds, right?
16:06:32bluebrothererr, x5 and x5v I mean
16:06:52amiconnbluebrother: They are the same hardware except battery (x5l) resp. radio (x5v)
16:07:07bluebrotherhmm, but the bootloader is different.
16:07:10amiconnIt is also a single build
16:07:43low_lightshould the adc be adc-ce200 or adc_sansa or adc_as3514 (since it specifically uses the as3514)?
16:07:44amiconnThe raw bootloader is identical, just the name (and header?) is different
16:08:04rasheramiconn: Not for long.
16:08:22bluebrotherhmm −− makes it harder to detect from the info file
16:08:33***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
16:08:41LiquidDragonSo anyone know why my battery runs out when I have shutdown rockbox?
16:08:55 Quit B4gder ("It is time to say MOOO")
16:08:59rasherLiquidDragon: What was it before you shut down. What player are you using
16:09:19LiquidDragonIt says everything shutdown alright
16:09:34amiconnrasher: I have synchronized vbscript operation running, but imho the code looks rather hackish
16:09:34rasherBut what was the battery status before you shut down?
16:09:34LiquidDragonBut I turned it on 8 hours later and the battery was at 20%
16:09:42LiquidDragonit was 95%
16:10:27amiconnrasher:"> in case you want to take a look
16:10:53JdGordonlow_light: looks like its up to you... call them whatever you want :)
16:11:04amiconnI am pondering to use a perl object for tts_object
16:11:07JdGordonth adc one should be adc_as3514 though
16:11:21Nico_Plow_light: as3514 sounds good to me
16:11:59Nico_Plow_light: are you planning on committing the mrobe code too ?
16:12:50JdGordongreat... so just when i get my 22" lcd so i can see the whole build table without scrolling, another 5 targets are going to be added and i cant see it all again :p
16:13:27rasheramiconn: at a quick glance, it doesn't look that bad to me
16:13:43rasherI mean, sure it's a bit more complicated, but it also does more, and better.
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16:15:32amiconnrasher: Yeah, but I'm not done yet. Voice selection, speed setting & language matching are still missing, plus sapi4 support
16:16:12amiconnAnd the if(sapi) {this} else {that} blocks are rather scattered now, plus that ugly array addressing...
16:16:54linuxstbLiquidDragon: When you turned it back on, did it come back on as normal? i.e. showing the apple logo and then the Rockbox logo when you pressed select?
16:17:15LiquidDragonlinuxstb: Yes it did
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16:17:29rasheramiconn: language matching? Like what's done for festival now? (in configure)
16:17:30LiquidDragonAnd it played fine and everything looked ok
16:17:38linuxstbLiquidDragon: Then I've no idea... Although I don't think you're the first person to report strange behaviour like that.
16:17:44rasheramiconn: ie. if you select "italiano", the festival opts are set to "−−language italian"
16:18:08low_lightNico_P: the mrobe will have to wait...I still haven't figured out how init & read the touchpad
16:18:24LiquidDragonHmmm, this is strange then
16:18:30LiquidDragonI'll try it again later
16:18:37LiquidDragonMaybe the harddrive was still going or something
16:18:50rasherAnyway, I'm off now.
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16:35:42sunjunhey, i have a sansa e260, without the radio, and every time i start it the radio menu pops up, asking about setting up scanning, is there a way to disable it?
16:36:36sunjun"No settings found. Autoscan?" to be precise
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16:42:28pregloweh? you set the startup screen to radio or something?
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16:44:05sunjuni knew i missed something obvious... thanks
16:44:23preglowanyway, sounds weird that a radio-less device has a radio menu...
16:44:49bluebrothershouldn't the menu auto-adjust if no radio hardware is detected?
16:45:00sunjunthe main menu doesnt have the fm menu
16:45:08sunjunbut there is a start screen setting for it
16:45:21sunjuncould this be a bug?
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16:45:44bluebrotheryep −− if no radio menu is shown you shouldn't be able selecting it as startup screen.
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16:46:31pixelmaseems like radio detection on Sansa is a bit... broken. People in the forums reported it the other way round too, i.e. having a Sansa with radio which isn't always detected (but sometimes)
16:47:05LiquidDragonHmm, still can't seem to patch rockbox
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16:49:12markunLiquidDragon: what goes wrong?
16:49:45LiquidDragon"missing header for unified diff at line 4 of patch"
16:50:04LiquidDragonSo i think that is a problem with the patch itself right?
16:50:06markunwhich patch?
16:50:22LiquidDragonOne of the scroll fix patches
16:50:34markunwhich one? do you have a link?
16:50:45LiquidDragonYeah, let me just find it again
16:50:46polygonalI wonder if there is some painless way to crawl throught two files and extract some text from file1 to file2 if appropriate matches are found? some scripting language? perl?
16:52:16LiquidDragonthe last one is the patch i had downloaded
16:52:35LiquidDragonpolygonal: I can think of a concept idea but I don't know how to code that well in perl
16:54:41markunLiquidDragon: the patch works fine here
16:54:45jeegerpolygonal: Perl for the win!
16:55:01markunLiquidDragon: what exactly did you type?
16:55:21LiquidDragonpatch -p0 < scroll.patch
16:55:25LiquidDragonand i tried 1-5
16:55:59ical49can i join in this forum?
16:56:34jeegerClickwheel acceleration! Wheee
16:56:54parafinLiquidDragon, patch -p1 works fine
16:57:03parafinwith scroll_nostatusbar-20070723.patch
16:57:19markunyes -p1 works here too
16:57:21parafinchecked on current svn revision
16:57:32parafinmay be you're in wrong directory?
16:57:33LiquidDragonmaybe i do not have that setup properly :S
16:57:45LiquidDragonI followed the tutorial on the wiki
16:57:54LiquidDragonpoked around the forums as ell
16:58:02LiquidDragonI am able to compile just not patch
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16:58:12parafinyou must be in top directory of sources
16:58:34parafinwhere all other catalogs is - apps, docs etc
16:58:54LiquidDragonermm, yes i am
16:59:00LiquidDragonWhere should i be?
16:59:45parafini mean you should be there :)
16:59:58LiquidDragonYes, i got something right!
17:00:13LiquidDragonStill new to rockbox
17:00:43parafinthe command should be patch -p1 < scroll_nostatusbar-20070723.patch
17:01:45LiquidDragonI have been trying that
17:01:55LiquidDragonthe patch should just be in the root folder right?
17:02:24LiquidDragonokay that's good then
17:02:25 Quit advcomp2019 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:04:45LiquidDragonSo when I get rockbox I should be downloading the Source one right?
17:05:21markunyes, you need the source. You can also download the source with svn.
17:05:37LiquidDragonAlright, I got the source
17:05:55LiquidDragonI am not going to set up svn right now because I only have 2 days left of work here
17:05:58LiquidDragonso no point
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17:14:00ical49i use rockbox running in my phone motorola e680i
17:18:00linuxstbI assume you're not the developer of that though?
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17:36:30*markun needs a UPS
17:37:44*GodEater does too
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17:40:16*amiconn has one
17:40:30*LiquidDragon needs patches to work
17:41:17GodEaterneat - so we need to convince this "blackhawk" person to give us back the code he's modified for the SDL sim
17:42:04 Quit low_light ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
17:42:09amiconnWell, if he distributes his port, he is obliged to provide the source as per gpl
17:42:23*bluebrother just wanted to say something similar ...
17:42:23GodEaterwell it would appear he *is* distributing it
17:42:48*bluebrother tries building Qt static on linux
17:42:55GodEatergood luck =/
17:43:56linuxstbGodEater: Ideally "blackhawk" would come here and discuss how to properly port Rockbox as an "application".
17:44:14linuxstbAs this idea has been discussed for a long time, but no-one until now has worked on it.
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17:56:11Nico_PRockbox as an app wouldn't be very nice IMHO
17:56:45peturadd proper keyhandling and gui
17:56:47Nico_Phaving to navigate with the keyboard in a small window isn't my definition of nice
17:57:03peturadd gui buttons next to it
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17:59:01fm2GodEater: what have you wanted shortcuts to do when a file is selected? Just go to the directory where the file is in and put the cursor on the first file there? Or also position the cursor at the selected file?
17:59:14LiquidDragonQuick question: After I patch I need to remake everything right?
17:59:27bluebrotherLiquidDragon: just run "make"
17:59:37bluebrotherit rebuilds everything that's necessary
17:59:59fm2GodEater: because I think my version just statys at the top. I don't know what your version did anymore.
18:00:01LiquidDragonbluebrother: Thanks, just what I needed to know
18:00:11 Quit markun (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
18:00:19nerochiaroquick question: is there a guide to rockboxable players more fleshed out than this: ?
18:00:32linuxstbNico_P: The idea is that it wouldn't be a small window - it would be Rockbox built to work with whatever GUI environment you want. So you could use Qt list widgets for example...
18:00:47fm2BTW: there also was a bug in exists(). open returns a negative value on failure, 0 is a fine file descriptor.
18:01:14Nico_Plinuxstb: ha, so that could be nice
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18:04:11GodEaterfm2: my version put the cursor on the file
18:05:50fm2GodEater: I'll check it in mine and will correct this if it doesn't
18:06:28GodEaterset_current_file() (which is what I think you use) should just do it automatically
18:07:04fm2And I think it doesn't :-/
18:07:07 Quit krazykit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:08:20GodEaterfm2: um
18:08:27fm2GodEater: and if you selected a dir, should the cursor just be at that dir or at the first file *inside* the dir?
18:08:34***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:08:39GodEatercursor should be at the dir
18:09:05GodEaterwhich means calling set_current_file() with the dirname minus the trailing slash
18:09:36nerochiarotrovaprezziottp:// ?
18:09:36nerochiaro18:00 < linuxstb> Nicttp:// ?
18:09:41fm2GodEater: hmm... I'd expect it to enter the dir. But it's just one click difference.
18:10:11fm2GodEater: or I'll introduce another setting −− put cursor at the entry or go into
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18:10:17nerochiarosorry folks, bad paste
18:10:25N[e]oi need help guys :)
18:10:41N[e]oi using rockbox , and my font size is too small...
18:11:09krazyktif you've installed the fonts, you can simply select another one
18:11:14N[e]oso what can i do to the font more big? ..
18:11:48N[e]oYes dude but its hebrew font , and there is blood , large,small,medium and they are all too small :X
18:11:54N[e]oand my eyes getting heart from it
18:12:14N[e]oso i cant choose somthing else :X
18:12:39fm2GodEater: if it always should put the cursor at the entry, why the need to make difference between dirs and files? Just so the user knows?
18:13:19fm2Since we could interpret the trailing slash as "go inside" and no slash as "position cursor on it"
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18:13:34N[e]oThere is no way to to the font more bigger? and not changing him.....
18:13:39krazyktoh, a hebrew font? N[e]o, if "large" is not large enough, i don't know what to tell you.
18:13:58 Quit petur ("work->home")
18:14:16N[e]oMan , i pressing on large and it is dont change a lot realy ... i'm not moron or something :P
18:14:32fm2N[e]o: just select nimbus-19. It has hebrew glyphs
18:14:40N[e]othanks :D
18:14:45N[e]oi will try now , sec.
18:14:46bluebrotheryou don't need a hebrew font. You just need a font that contains hebrew characters
18:14:57bluebrotherunifont is the most complete regarding characters ...
18:15:17GodEaterfm2: I take it back sorry
18:15:28GodEaterfm2: my plugin put the user inside the directory
18:15:32GodEateron the first file
18:15:36bluebrothercheck"> for which scripts are supported by which font
18:15:46GodEaterbut the file selection *definitely* leaves the file selected
18:15:48GodEaterI've just tested it
18:16:05fm2GodEater: ok, that's what I also would expect.
18:16:16hcsis there a file search mechanism anywhere? that's something I'd like to see implemented...
18:16:40GodEaterhcs: have you *used* the virtual keyboard? ;)
18:16:41fm2But I still have to fix it a bit
18:17:05hcsGodEater: yeah, and it'd still be easier than searching through the HVSC by hand
18:17:17hcsplus I'm looking into improving the virtual keyboard, on another topic...
18:17:18fm2N[e]o: depends on what dap you have. On an iPod 5g it's ok
18:17:45N[e]oi have e250 ...
18:18:06N[e]oi got nimbus 19 and 14... i need 16
18:18:10fm2N[e]o: and iirc RB even displays hebrew file names right to left
18:18:15N[e]owhere can i get it ? :X
18:18:33fm2N[e]o. It also depends on your eyes :-)))
18:18:53N[e]othere is anoter font that can be good?
18:18:54N[e]oRB? :)
18:19:25fm2N[e]o: there is no such font in RB as of yet. But if you need it you can create it.
18:19:50bluebrotherN[e]o: check the link I proviced earlier ...
18:20:14N[e]obluebrother: k , 10x.
18:20:19N[e]ofm2: k,10x :)
18:21:01 Part fm2 ("off")
18:21:01markunN[e]o: or here
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18:24:20Carroarmato0Hi, I'm trying to sync my Ipod nano with rockbox on it through amarok... I'm using the new version 1.4.7 which declairs it has support for rockbox... problem is I can't find anything.
18:24:28 Nick advcomp2019- is now known as advcomp2019 (n=advcomp2@
18:24:55bluebrotherI always wondered what they claim "rockbox support for ipods".
18:25:14bluebrotherbut you can use it as generic media device −− or as ipod (if you use the database)
18:26:04Carroarmato0I tried that... but strangely enough amarok says the device has to be mounted.... while it is already mounted....
18:26:22bluebrotherhave you tried asking the amarok guys?
18:26:53N[e]oi think it will be ok with nimbus 14 :X
18:26:55bluebrotherand what did they say? What is this rockbox support?
18:27:13Carroarmato0the folks there said they don't have any experience with ipod.... ironicly...
18:28:07Carroarmato0I searched everywhere... even on the amarok web page I can't find nothing with the rockbox ipod combo
18:28:15bluebrotherthey added support but don't have experience? Strange ..
18:28:23Carroarmato0yeah... weird
18:28:43bluebrotherI (briefly) searched for that too. Not that I would want to use it, but I wanted to know what it is ;-)
18:29:03Carroarmato0haven't heard of amarok? ^^
18:29:33bluebrotherI'm using it ;-)
18:29:40Carroarmato0ahh ^^
18:29:46bluebrotherbut not for syncing −− still copying the files directly
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18:30:54Carroarmato0Amarok mounted it as a generic device once I unplugged my ipod and replugged it
18:31:09N[e]oSome one can tell a good font for me? (sandisk e250 player) that can read hebrew too please...
18:31:28N[e]ofrom the list you gave me ...">
18:31:42bluebrotherI tried it once for syncing. Disliked the way it renames files, and went back to my old method ;)
18:31:57markunN[e]o: just try them
18:31:59bluebrotherN[e]o: that depends entirely on you. Plus, themes usually require you to use a matching font
18:33:17Carroarmato0Ok I'm transfering all my music now to rockbox...
18:33:46Carroarmato0It better work Saint Open Source! ;)
18:36:34Carroarmato0Stupid thing is support for Rockbox devices was implemented in amarok 1.4.6... I have 1.4.7 now.. and they didn't even bothered to write any guide in the wiki or manual...
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18:37:15markunCarroarmato0: maybe you can write that guide when you have figured it out
18:37:24krazyktCarroarmato0, technically, "support" for rockbox has been around as long as "generic audio device" support has been in rockbox
18:37:31`sam`there probably isn't enough users yet that they felt the need to write the guide
18:37:31krazykter, amarok, rather
18:38:13Carroarmato0Well as soon as the transfer is finished I'll give it a spin and try to upload a wiki entry...
18:38:50Carroarmato0Btw what do you suggest I use for rockbox database configuration? Load in Ram? Auto update on?
18:40:12markunCarroarmato0: yes, I would enable both if you plan to use the database a lot
18:40:15Carroarmato0krazykt: yeah but this is Amarok saying they can handle the files from a rockbox device... it's like Disney: it's magic ;)
18:41:06Carroarmato0markun: how about directory caching? Still have no idea what it does....
18:41:34markunturn it on if you browse through your files from time to time (like me)
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18:42:16Carroarmato0markun: well I'm planning to put pictures on it to view... so I guess I should enable it too...
18:43:26Carroarmato0Do you still need a patch to use the cover display?
18:43:43GodEaterCarroarmato0: yes
18:44:18Carroarmato0What's keeping it from going mainstream?
18:44:33*bluebrother waves at Domonoky
18:44:44Carroarmato0Is it still a hack at this stage?
18:45:03bluebrotherCarroarmato0: yes.
18:45:08bluebrotherDomonoky: we got the first bugs ;-)
18:47:25LloreanGodEater: Honestly, I don't know what those buttons do in the original Gigabeat firmware either.
18:47:35Carroarmato0now to download some cool wps themes to go on my ipod ^^
18:47:48GodEaterLlorean: it had original firmware ? ;)
18:48:03LloreanSo they tell me.
18:50:11markunLlorean: which buttons?
18:51:48Lloreanmarkun: The A button? Does it server to select things and/or as a way to power off for some reason?
18:53:06markunI don't know either what it does, but it should be in here:
18:53:45GodEaterLlorean: he just referred to using the "Hold" button to power off now
18:54:04GodEaterI've just given him a quick guide so he can tell us which buttons he's talking about, because I've lost the plot now
18:56:08LloreanGodEater: I think he meant "holding" the button for poweroff, rather than the "hold" switch
18:56:44GodEaterLlorean: I'm so confused now I've no idea what he means - hence my quick guide
18:56:57GodEaterI hope he takes the hint ;)
18:57:00Carroarmato0Ah yes, life is good when everything works... thank you people developing rockbox, I take off my hat and give sigars in front of you!
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18:58:18 Quit ical49 ("it's a basket time.......kangen aja ma cantikkonsul...sushe....meirin...purplecak3...cella-V...kapan y bisa ktmuan qta.....")
18:59:11Carroarmato0Now to bash those twits of amarok that if they say they support a nice system as rockbox... they should at least give a top quality guide on how to use it! ;)
19:02:03LloreanGodEater: I don't understand his last post. Though as far as I know, none of the side buttons can be used as "Select" in Rockbox, can they?
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19:03:39GodEaterLlorean: I'm not sure - I thought there may be a patch for it
19:03:56*amiconn hmpfs
19:05:18amiconnI got a total of 5 freezes today on h180, 3 of them in a row :(
19:05:58Lloreanamiconn: Know the cause of any of them?
19:06:10amiconnNo, only that they must be voice related
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19:06:50LloreanI don't use voice on mine, so that would explain why I don't experience it.
19:07:18amiconnThat's annoying - I use voice in the car in order to be less distracted - and then the darn thing freezes...
19:08:01LloreanYou've been saying for a long time voice has some problems.
19:08:30smurfDoes anybody have a working rockbox image for an ipod photo? The thing crashes after a few seconds of playing music.
19:08:34amiconnNot on hwcodec though
19:10:55Lloreanamiconn: How different is the voice playback for hwcodec vs swcodec?
19:11:06n1samiconn: were these problems introduced by the voice-splashes patch i committed?
19:11:07Lloreansmurf: Which SVN revision are you trying to use?
19:11:08amiconnIn the morning (when I got 4 of the 5 freezes) I was running a build from 20 Aug, so I updated in order to have pondlife's latest fix in place, only to get yet another freeze when resuming...
19:11:55preglowamiconn: do you know how retailos sets up i2s/audio codec on the pp5020?
19:11:58amiconnn1s: No, only that it seems the splash voicing makes freezes more likely
19:12:13amiconnpreglow: nope
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19:12:36smurfLlorean: A few months ago I upgraded to the latest daily build (without saving the old stuff. Yeah, that was dumb) and it was broken. I just retried with today's. Same result.
19:12:40n1sThe only hang I've spotted was when shutting down without stopping playback but that seems to have been fixed by the patch i committed yesterday
19:12:52n1samiconn: are you using .talk clips?
19:12:59amiconnI am almost sure the data aborts/prefetch aborts on PP with voice enabled and the freezes on coldfire are in fact the same thing
19:13:06Lloreansmurf: Are you sure you properly updated? A few months ago the 4Gs had a severe known freezing problem. Today they shouldn't.
19:13:14Lloreansmurf: As well, you shouldn't be using dailies, but instead current builds.
19:13:16amiconnn1s: Usually yes, but it also happens with talk clips disabled
19:13:52 Quit `sam` ("bbl")
19:14:06amiconnSome address (pointer, probably) gets overwritten or something, causing a wild access
19:14:32Febssmurf: also, make sure that you have the most recent bootloader.
19:14:52amiconnPP will crash with mentioned exceptions, while on coldfire accessing a non-existent location causes a bus hang
19:14:56*Domonoky waves back to bluebrother.. a bit delayed .. :-)
19:15:21n1samiconn: is it reproducible in the sim? can't test voice on sim, 64 bits here
19:16:03smurfFebs: OK, I'll try that
19:16:10amiconnI have no idea...
19:16:52smurfLlorean: Well, the info screen says "r-14530-070830" ... that looks about right I'd say.
19:17:12Lloreansmurf: That's the daily, yes, 3 revisions behind the current.
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19:17:31Lloreansmurf: But as Febs said, also make sure your bootloader's updated, and as I said, we don't recommend use of the daily.
19:18:01amiconnIf it is what I think, I would guess that it's not reproducable in the sim
19:18:25amiconnTesting in the sim would be a major hassle though
19:19:34smurfLlorean: as the problem has persisted for months, I don't think being a rev behind ( says r14531) is going to make a difference, but OK.
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19:20:36Lloreansmurf: As we haven't established you're using the current bootloader, your actual SVN revision may be irrelevant because your CPU may not be initialized properly
19:21:08Lloreansmurf: As for the current revision, being a few behind probably doesn't make a difference here, but we still require it being the current build when you report something because it also often DOES matter.
19:21:08smurfLlorean: already downloading that
19:21:18smurfLlorean: OK
19:21:32LloreanI can't begin to describe to you how often someone reports a bug that exists in the Daily, but is fixed in the Current, for one reason or another
19:24:35smurfFebs: Works now. Thank you!
19:24:44FebsGlad to be of service.
19:26:01smurfNow if the boot loader passed its version number to the main image, and if the image would check that it's not too old, then I'd have figured that one out myself. ;-)
19:26:20linuxstbsmurf: That would be too easy...
19:26:59smurf... now that the ipod works again, who the hell stole my headphones: :-/
19:27:01Lloreansmurf: The new installer should be able to tell you if the last bootloader you installed is now outdated.
19:27:38linuxstbLlorean: Is that implemented now?
19:27:59Domonokyit can tell this only if you installed the bootloader with rbutil
19:29:28Domonokythe checking / md5 ing of the installed bootloader isnt implemented..
19:29:46smurfThe ipod docs say to just download and extract the image, no installer
19:30:09Lloreansmurf: Hence the "new", it's not quite "out" yet. ;)
19:30:15linuxstbYes, the installer isn't released yet, and hence isn't mentioned in the manual.
19:30:30linuxstbThe installer authors keep rewritiing it...
19:30:51*linuxstb decides to try and build Qt on the Mac again
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19:35:16Domonokyit would be nice to have something like the new theme repository for the fm presets.. the rbutil could also download and install them.. :-)
19:36:02LloreanDomonoky: I liked the old method, a single .zip that had all of them. They were quite small.
19:36:30*bluebrother is looking for a solution to the x5 vs x5v issue
19:36:36LloreanBut the Preset Browser would need to show subdirectories
19:36:39Domonokyyeah,but who updates the zip with all the new presets in the wiki ?
19:37:03bluebrotherLlorean: well, we could have a presets page similar to the themes one. And auto-generate a zip file with all presets for one country
19:37:20LloreanDomonoky: I used to, for a while, then someone rearranged the whole wiki page and made a lot of changes to everything, and I couldn't keep track of all the changes easily
19:37:23bluebrothercould work in a similar way like the themes page
19:37:24LloreanI used to just have to watch a single page.
19:38:25Domonokybluebrother: which x5v issue ?
19:38:29linuxstbWouldn't a database of radio channels be better? In fact, there must be such sites already...
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19:39:03Lloreanlinuxstb: Just give RBUtil the ability to import from an online database, you mean?
19:39:08Domonokyif there is such a page.. it would be nice to use it in rbutil and generate the fm presets..
19:39:12alienbiker99so are there really going to be 3 more devs working on the S?
19:39:35bluebrotherx5 and x5v use different bootloaders but the same build
19:39:58linuxstbDomonoky, bluebrother: Are there any optional modules I need to enable when building Qt for rbutil?
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19:41:14bluebrotherlinuxstb: no, the default configuration should do.
19:41:34Domonokybluebrother: thats why rbutil.ini has the plattform value the same and the bootloader value different.. between x5 and x5v.. i dont know if rbutilqt uses it correctly.. :-)
19:41:59bluebrotherit does not.
19:42:19bluebrotherfor detection I decided to try looking after the bootloader file −− it contains the needed string
19:42:45smurfstill very unstable when english.voice is installed, fortunately I don't need it
19:43:13Domonokydoes the bootloader file persist on iaudio x5 when instaling ?
19:44:20Domonokybluebrother: which value is used in rbutilqt for the plattform ? the section name, or the platform key ?
19:45:17bluebrothernot sure ... I think it's the platform key
19:45:55Domonokyso bootloader install on a x5v installs the wron bootloader now ?
19:46:19polygonalrasher: here?
19:46:34bluebrotherwell, I haven't checked the bootloader. The install itself tries to download the wrong build
19:46:43bluebrotherand autodetection doesn't work.
19:46:46Domonokyif installing of rockbox itself fails, then it uses the section name
19:46:53linuxstbIt's a shame that the targets getting software USB (and hence the potential for rbutil to communicate with Rockbox) are the ones where we don't need any communication to detect bootloader versions...
19:47:47amiconnThe iaudio flash loader deletes the *_fw.bin file after flashing
19:48:37linuxstbHow does rbutil handle the two ipod video builds?
19:48:50bluebrotherit does? Oops.
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19:48:55Domonokybluebrother: but then the autodetection via the rockbox-info should work..
19:49:22bluebrotherwell, no. x5 and x5v use a build with the target: x5
19:49:26Domonokybluebrother, i think it should use the section name.. and the plattform key for downloading rockbox..
19:49:57Domonokyah.. now i understand..
19:50:00bluebrothermaybe I should write the platform to the log file too and use that in precendence.
19:50:33bluebrotherfixing the installation itself is easy. Detecting is somewhat more problematic
19:50:51 Quit atsea- (Remote closed the connection)
19:51:00FebsDomonkey, Bluebrother: a suggestion. After installing a theme with rbutil, return to the theme installation menu rather than the main menu.
19:51:02bluebrotheramiconn: is there any file in the FIRMWARE folder that persists and can help distinguishing between players?
19:51:24bluebrotherFebs: why? You can select multiple themes and install them the same time.
19:51:26amiconnThe firmware folder isn't even required to exist
19:51:39bluebrotherok. Then we need the log file.
19:52:05Domonokybluebrother: add it to the log file, or another info file :-)
19:52:12FebsBecause the average user will look at one theme, say "that looks good I want that," and install it, and then move on to another theme and repeat the process.
19:52:16amiconnWell, since both bootloaders have diferent filenames, you could put both into /firmware
19:52:27amiconnThe flash loader will pick the one it wants
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19:52:52bluebrotherhmm. We could merge x5 and x5v that way.
19:52:57Lloreanbluebrother: I'm gonna hafta agree with Febs, a lot of users are going to prefer point and pick to batch install.
19:53:02Domonokythats a nice idea..
19:53:03amiconnBut you need to log anyway, as there is no way to find out whether the bootloader is already installed
19:53:07bluebrotheramiconn: will the flash loader delete the other one?
19:53:18amiconnMost probably not
19:53:25Domonokyamiconn, we log the bootloader install..
19:53:27amiconnIt will delete the one it flashes
19:53:44bluebrotherso ... should we merge x5 and x5v or not?
19:53:46FebsAlso, it's not intuitively obviously that you can install multiple themes at one. (I didn't realize it until you just told me.)
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19:54:36bluebrotherFebs: ok, that's easy to change. But during testing I often clicked the ok button again for the window to disappear −− and obviously it reinstalled the theme I just installed
19:54:36Domonokybluebrother: if you add it to the log, remember to exclude it in the uninstall dialog..
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19:54:50 Quit petur ("switching...")
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19:55:01bluebrotherso I thought it's better to auto-close the window
19:55:03amiconnSomeone with an x5 and/or x5v should probably just try it
19:55:16{Core}Frazzcan someone help me dual boot on my iaudio m5?
19:55:32 Nick {Core}Frazz is now known as Frazz (
19:55:34Domonokyand merging x5 and x5v would be good.. if it doesnt harm to install both bootloaders..
19:56:03bluebrotherI put it in the General section in my first try. As this isn't a childKey it won't show up ;-)
19:56:21FebsI'm also getting freezes fairly regularly when trying to browse themes.
19:56:30LloreanFrazz: There's no official dual boot on that player.
19:56:33Domonokyand the ipod 64MB issues is still open.. but its not so problematic, as we install the 32MB version, which works on both..
19:56:38bluebrotherI agree. Someone should try. Having a small additional file around shouldn't harm
19:56:56Frazzwell somone posted one on iaudiophile
19:56:58amiconnDomonoky: It will only install one, I'm quite sure. The question is what to do with the leftover bootloader
19:57:01Domonokyto install a ipod64MB build we need a way to detect them..
19:57:21LloreanFrazz: Then ask that person, as I said, there's no official one, and we can't really provide support for software we didn't write as we can't know how it works or what it's supposed to do.
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19:57:42Frazzthanks anyway
19:57:48bluebrotherwell, detection will currently use the 32mb one. So we could simply add it, and rely on users correcting the selection ...
19:58:10amiconnDo we know whether the x5 and x5v have different usb pids?
19:58:16bluebrotheruntil ipodpatcher can detect it correctly. linuxstb said something about some scsi query that would help doing so
19:58:55bluebrotheramiconn: no idea −− and DeviceDetection doesn't hold enough data
19:58:56Domonokyamiconn: at the moment we dont use usb pids as its difficult to get them on all three OSes..
20:00:54amiconnbluebrother: COuldn't you check the disk capacity of the ipod?
20:01:07morrijrre detecting a 64mb iPod, I know it doesn't help for the first install, but is it possible to query/determine which version of rockbox is currently installed and check for that?
20:01:22bluebrotherwould be possible. But still I'd like ipodpatcher to do this
20:01:50 Quit jeeger_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
20:01:57bluebrothermorrijr: yes it is. We already do that. It just won't work if the previously installed version is the 32mb one or it's a fresh install
20:02:26bluebrotherI think I'll go with the log file for now.
20:02:35Domonokyjup, if we add the 64MB Build to the ini file, it will work like this..
20:07:06 Quit polygonal ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
20:07:09 Quit notgod (Remote closed the connection)
20:08:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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20:12:38*Domonoky added the ipodvideo64MB build to rbutil.ini
20:12:52 Part lee-qid
20:13:22bluebrotherthe devices view doesn't collapse correctly. /me fixes.
20:15:42bluebrotherDomonoky: seen the "Issues" section I added to the wiki page? I think it's a good idea to track functional changes there
20:16:01Domonokybluebrother: jup, i just added something to it.. :-)
20:16:21 Quit ender` (" The only reason some people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory. -- Paul Fix")
20:16:26bluebrotherah, just noticed it. Was too slow in refreshing ;-)
20:17:40*bluebrother goes for food
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20:31:33LiquidDragonDoes the 5.5g ipod have 32mb ram or 64?
20:33:03alienbiker99depends on the hard drive size
20:33:15Domonoky60/80 gig has 64mb
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20:35:16LiquidDragonokay, so my 30gig has 32 mb ram?
20:35:41 Quit Jon-Kha (Remote closed the connection)
20:36:02LiquidDragonAwesome, thanks guys
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20:40:09bluebrotherDomonoky: an issue pondlife has reported: the menu bar shows up delayed, giving an interesting shift in the UI upon startup.
20:40:26bluebrotherit only appears on windows though ... no idea what's causing this.
20:42:59 Part toffe82
20:46:09Domonokybluebrother: its strange
20:46:22elinenbe_workbluebrother: is there anywhere I can download a compiled rbutilqt?
20:46:57bluebrotherelinenbe_work: yes:
20:47:22elinenbe_workthat's new :-)
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20:47:33elinenbe_workdidn't see it a coupld of days ago.
20:47:36bluebrotherwell, not completely ;-)
20:47:54elinenbe_workNico_P: are you still working on the MoB and WPS?
20:48:29Nico_Pelinenbe_work: not ATM, I need to focus on school work
20:49:42Nico_Phow dare you ! :)
20:51:26Nico_Pelinenbe_work: why ?
20:51:44elinenbe_workNico_P: just curious....
20:51:57elinenbe_workI was starting work on my own implementation, but not really.
20:52:04elinenbe_workjust a basic framework
20:52:32Nico_Pfor MoB ?
20:53:33 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:53:45elinenbe_workNico_P: y.
20:54:04Nico_Phave you looked at my code ?
20:54:14*bluebrother just build a static linux binary of rbutilqt ... still it has loads of dependencies to gui libraries
20:54:33elinenbe_workicon files are not well documented, even though they are a very nice feature.... no themes include them, and there is no (afaik) interface to select them from the player
20:55:04*Domonoky thinks icons should be parts of a theme..
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20:56:56*elinenbe_work agrees with Domonoky
20:57:16low_lightpreglow: you wanted i2s setup from a pp5020...
20:57:20Nico_PDomonoky: creating nice icons isn't easy
20:57:58low_lightit's from the mrobe it may or may not be entirely accurate
20:58:08DomonokyNico_P: thats true, but the theme author can choose from the existing icons.. if they fit their theme..
20:59:42Nico_Pelinenbe_work: did you take a look at my MoB code ? I'd be interested in your opinion
20:59:43 Quit jeeger (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
21:01:25elinenbe_workNico_P: not really... though I code like I eat... I'm a mess.
21:02:59elinenbe_workbluebrother: what's up with the .rockbox under my C:\ ? (I'm on windows)....
21:03:07preglowlow_light: where's that from?
21:03:45bluebrotherelinenbe_work: what should be up with that? Did you install to the wrong device?
21:04:01low_lightit's from the mrobe it may or may not be entirely representative
21:04:31 Quit RaRe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:06:38 Join tvelocity [0] (
21:07:36bluebrotherDomonoky: the bootloader shows the md5sum as version. Is this intended?
21:08:05low_lightis there an easy way to disable building plugins? in configure maybe?
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21:08:27Dark_MysticHello, i have a problem with my iPod 5.5 th generation
21:08:39Domonokybluebrother: its intended to save to md5sum in the log, to check for a new installed one..
21:08:40*Dark_Mystic attempted to put Rockbox
21:09:13pixelmalow_light: maybe exclude them in SOURCES and SUBDIRS?
21:09:41 Join linuxstb_ [0] (i=5343d4aa@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
21:10:34bluebrotherDomonoky: this looks a bit inconvenient ... maybe add the human-readable version number too?
21:11:02 Join Falen [0] (
21:11:02bluebrother(maybe by adding the file itself like the zip installer does)
21:11:07linuxstb_low_light: Remove the "plugins=yes" line from your target in configure
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21:11:44Domonokyhm.. i compare the md5sum in the log with the md5sum from the bootloaders-info, to check for a new bootloader...
21:12:19Domonokywe could add a bootloader version to the bootloaders-info file, then we could save the version in the log..
21:12:29Dark_MysticHow can i reboot my iPod
21:12:49bluebrotherDark_Mystic: hold Menu + Select
21:12:51 Join einhirn [0] (
21:13:20Dark_Mystichow long?
21:13:23bluebrotherDomonoky: you could add the version string for the files itself and add a virtual file <md5sum> with that
21:13:35bluebrothera couple of seconds. Maybe up to 30 or so.
21:13:42bluebrotherthis varies.
21:14:37Dark_MysticIt is possible to force a reset trough the itunes?
21:15:24linuxstb_Dark_Mystic: What's your actual problem?
21:15:32low_lightlinuxstb: remove it or change it to "no"?
21:15:48linuxstb_low_light: Try both...
21:15:59Dark_Mysticit says can't load rockbox.ipod
21:16:31linuxstb_Did you extract to your ipod?
21:17:00Dark_Mysticyes i did
21:17:40Dark_Mysticah there
21:17:47Dark_Mysticit rebooted
21:18:08linuxstb_Are you on Windows or a Mac?
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21:18:47Dark_MysticWindows obiviously
21:20:19linuxstb_Why was that obvious?
21:20:21 Quit Falen ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
21:21:16Dark_Mysticthanks anyways
21:21:23bluebrotheranother issue solved :)
21:22:11bluebrotherDomonoky: btw, there is another issue you might have an idea about: the progresslogger doesn't update between "downloading" and after unzipping finished.
21:22:22*Dark_Mystic just activated M25 diagnostics
21:22:27bluebrotherat least it appears to be that way. But I'm a bit lost of what to do about it.
21:22:45Frazzthis may be a stupid question but how easy is it to learn c from scratch?
21:23:40bluebrotherdepends how much used you are to computers at all and programming languages.
21:23:41linuxstb_Try it and find out...
21:24:09Frazzi am used to computers
21:24:12 Quit Dark_Mystic ()
21:24:23bluebrotherand how about computer languages? Did you program before?
21:24:23Frazznot programming
21:24:37Frazzmy brother is a programmer
21:24:48Frazzhe is very good
21:24:50bluebrotherwell, then it might be not the easiest task ... but it's definitely doable ;-)
21:25:19bluebrothergrab a good C book, some time and something you want to work on.
21:25:46Domonokybluebrother: while unzipping you have to call QApplication::processEvents() sometime.. to let the progresswindow update..
21:28:48bluebrotherhmm ... can't I do this at the beginning only? I tried but it doesn't seem to work
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21:29:23Domonokybluebrother: call it when you want the window to update.. should work..
21:29:46bluebrotherhmm, I tried putting it in front of the unzip call. Didn't help much.
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21:35:43bluebrotherhmm, now it seems to work. What did I do before?
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21:48:46xigxagAdding on to Frazz' question...I am wanting to learn C by working with the rockbox project. What is a good place within the rockbox to start?
21:49:26xigxagPerhaps with the patches?
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21:52:54bluebrotherxigxag: most people start by working on a plugin
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22:03:55peturbah.. red :(
22:08:25 Quit seablue ("life, death, life, death")
22:08:35qwmscorche: i finally beat lvl 70! then 71 and 72 easily, but i started shaking while playing lvl 73. :(
22:08:37***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:08:59desowinqwm: what are you playing?
22:09:13qwmthe bubble game on my nano.
22:09:13 Join PaulPosition [0] (
22:09:31qwmi probably spent hours on lvl 70, over a course of two weeks.
22:09:37qwmit really frustrated me.
22:09:46qwmsuch a great relief to finally have beaten it!
22:12:58markunqwm: congrats
22:13:14qwmthanks. :)
22:13:16dantje_hi, can somebody give a troubled rockbox-on-sansa newbie a hand?
22:13:23PaulPositionHi there... Say, I'm trying to find out whether the Sansa E200's port of RB has the same "problems" as other Portalplayer targets in respect to the equalizer/crossfeed (not crossfade) and such. Namely, does it gets it overhelm CPU to the point where music will start skipping and the ui becomes completely unresponsive?
22:13:36markunqwm: yesterday I saw part of a documentary about people playing Donkey Kong until the machine runs out of memory and crashes :)
22:13:46LloreanThe King of Kong?
22:14:16markuncould be, I didn't catch the title
22:14:21LloreanPaulPosition: All the PortalPlayers are the same speed.
22:14:41LloreanPaulPosition: But my Nano does neither of the things you've described when using the equalizer.
22:14:49markunLlorean: yes, it was King of Kong indeed
22:15:35PaulPositionHmm, maybe it's time for me to update my H10. :o Surely you do know (or remember) what I'm talking about...?!? :o (Used to be that, at most two bands could be used, and not too high or low...) ?
22:15:39dantje_Installed with sansapatcher, it booted up fine. But now it seems to be belly-up. How do I reboot without changing the batteries?
22:15:44 Quit Wiwie ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
22:16:12LloreanPaulPosition: I do remember what you're talking about, but it depends very highly on which codec your audio is, what your WPS looks like, and a variety of other things
22:16:19 Quit ompaul ("later")
22:16:42PaulPositionDantje - You reboot the same as a non-rockboxed Sansa... round button + some other for 20-some seconds, I think. Manual should tell you.
22:17:27FebsLlorean: getting back to our conversation the other day, I've had the Gigabeat for less than 24 hours, but my experience with the button-mapping so far is that it is quite inconsistent with other RB platforms.
22:18:13LloreanFebs: Are there other significant problems beyond the function of "Select" and the A button in the WPS?
22:18:34PaulPositionLlorean - That's true. Of course I don't use peakmeters, and most of my files are vbr mp3s around averageing 192.. Guess I will just try a few things and see how it goes. −− Who knows, maybe I'll find out it wasn't as bad as I remember it to be.
22:18:36FebsThose are the ones that have been most obvious to me.
22:19:26LloreanFebs: There were a few more bad ones earlier in the port, I believe, but I think with #6920, which swaps those to, it becomes easier to use one handed, easier (for me) to use in my pocket, and more consistent all at once.
22:19:42LloreanI'm trying to remember if anyone still objects to it (though I'm sure if I committed it, users would complain for a little while)
22:19:44dantje_Stupid me. Power + the bottom key. Thanks a million. Up and running again.
22:19:57*petur gets hit by the wide build table and does yet another fix :(
22:20:05 Quit desowin ("use linux")
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22:21:34markunLlorean: I object as usual :)
22:21:51Lloreanmarkun: What was the grounds for your objection again?
22:22:00LloreanWas there some use case that the current map is better for?
22:22:11FebsThe "select" button enters the file browser from the WPS on every other RB platform I've owned. It seems very inconsistent that it does not do so on the GB as well.
22:22:51markun1) it's consistent with the archos recorder and 2) it's a logical mapping to have A go in and out of the WPS and SELECT for pause in my mind
22:22:59*linuxstb_ is with Llorean and Febs, but doesn't feel that strongly - it's not much of an effort to remember the GB is special...
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22:23:30Lloreanmarkun: It's damn hard to pause without accidentally skipping a track when the player is in my pocket.
22:23:41markunuse the remote :)
22:23:41LloreanAnd impossible to navigate with just my thumb to add to the playlist.
22:24:00fm2Is this a known "feature" that file operation (open) works differently on target on on the sim?
22:24:27linuxstb_fm2: You'll have to be more specific.
22:24:32fm2In the sim, I can't open a dir that way, but on target I can
22:25:02Lloreanmarkun: For me the big key is that with "Select" leaving the WPS, you then open up single-thumb navigation and use of the player, as you have on nearly every other target already
22:25:08markunLlorean: maybe if you change it again I will get used to it, but it was the way you want it before and we (the gigabeat port guys) didn't like it much
22:25:26markunwill you also change the archos recorde mapping?
22:25:39linuxstb_fm2: What happens when you open() a dir? IMO that shouldn't work anywhere.
22:25:47Lloreanmarkun: The center of the cross on the Recorder is actually a "Play/Pause" button already, it's labelled
22:26:03Lloreanmarkun: As well, it has face buttons that do the job, so one-thumb navigation is not harmed in any way by its current mapping.
22:26:04markunI know
22:26:25 Quit LiquidDragon ("Leaving cause I feel like it")
22:26:47fm2linuxstb: I don't know exactly but a non negative fd is returned
22:27:05fm2linuxstb: which means "success" IIUC
22:27:40fm2I use cygwin if that matters
22:27:52markunLlorean: maybe we should do a forum poll
22:27:53LloreanTo be honest, the one change I'd make to the AJBR is to make "Play/Pause" be the "Resume Playback" button rather than the "Select" button.
22:28:22 Quit low_light ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
22:28:35LloreanBut that's more personal preference (consistency) than allowing a new use case.
22:28:48LloreanI just don't see the point of intentionally preventing people from operating the player with just their thumb.
22:28:58LloreanEspecially since it also improves consistency across targets.
22:29:02Febsmarkun: my issues is that this is the 4th Rockbox platform that I have owned. All 4 have some form of up, down, left and right buttons, plus a center button. This is the only one where the center button does something different. If there were a good reason for the inconsistency, that would be one thing, but if all other things are equal, then I think we should strive for consistency.
22:29:45Febs(My four platforms: H120, H340, iPod Video, Gigabeat)
22:29:47 Nick datasleep is now known as datachild (
22:30:40 Quit Frazz ("Leaving")
22:31:12LloreanI don't even understand why this different mapping was chosen just for the Gigabeat.
22:31:25markunlooks like I'm in a very small minority here, so I guess it's fair that you guys change it
22:31:28Lloreanmarkun: You said you guys liked it better. Why? Or rather, what didn't you like about the normal mapping?
22:31:33amiconnWhile I didn't actually try the gigabeat mapping, I have to say that the gigabeat is not the only target where the centre button does not go to the browser
22:31:38markunif I don't like it I'll just patch my own source
22:32:02 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:32:06Lloreanamiconn: It's the only one where the center button is "Select" rather than "Play/Pause" isn't it?
22:32:19markunLlorean: we didn't like that pause was not mapped on the center because that was what we somehow expected (maybe from using the OF too much)
22:32:55linuxstb_fm2: Checking the Rockbox source and the Linux man page for open(), it seems Rockbox does the right thing - open() on a directory succeeds with O_RDONLY. It only fails with RDWR or WRONLY
22:33:00amiconnThe archos recorders do that too, partially because of the symbol on the centre button (Play/Pause), but also because the resulting mapping is rather convenient
22:33:31Lloreanamiconn: The archos recorder though, can be used with just a thumb even with that mapping. The Gigabeat has no way to leave the WPS once you're there, without using a side button, which I don't really like.
22:33:57amiconnOn the recorders ON toggles between browser and wps - very convenient imho
22:34:01markunLlorean: it's very easy for me to press the side button with my thumb, but maybe that's because I'm right handed (or just weird)
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22:34:28Lloreanmarkun: Right handed helps a lot.
22:34:35markunLlorean: how do you stop playback or go to the menu?
22:34:41markundo you have to use 2 hands?
22:34:43LloreanBut getting to A makes my thumb uncomfortable even left handed.
22:34:48amiconnThe archos player and Ondios behave similar (but they're not really comparable as they have no centre button
22:35:02Lloreanmarkun: If "center" leaves the WPS, you can press left in the filetree to get to the menu
22:35:26markuntrue, but a very inconvenient way of getting there
22:35:27amiconnSide buttons are always inconvenient imo, but nothing we can change...
22:35:40markunamiconn: unfortunately
22:35:42*amiconn prefers targets with standard buttons on the front
22:35:58amiconnI.e. no side buttons, no pads or wheels
22:35:59fm2linuxstb: I also thought that a dir can be opened and read as an ordinary file. And was surprised that it didn't work in the sim. I thought, it was the RB way of life...
22:36:19Lloreanmarkun: Yes, but only inconvenient relative to using one button press. If you're constrained to the front for some reason (single handed left-handed operation) it may be more convenient than using the side
22:36:31peturH10 is a bad player in that respect...
22:36:38fm2linuxstb: I hope, opening a file with opendir() will fail in both worlds! :-)
22:36:42amiconnpetur: yup
22:37:00*linuxstb_ would prefer side buttons than no buttons like the ipods
22:37:24markunLlorean: but go ahead and commit, neither of us is going to change his mind I think
22:37:27 Quit RaRe (Connection timed out)
22:37:39amiconnWhile I got somewhat accustomed to the ipod wheel, this wheel is *very* inconvenient in the car, especially since we have no audible feedback
22:38:12Lloreanmarkun: I'd rather get a few more developer opinions than just you, me, and Febs. 2:1 can be changed from "majority" to "tie" with a single added vote.
22:38:15markunamiconn: doesn't sound safe anyway to play with your DAP while driving..
22:38:29markunLlorean: you got linuxstb_ as well
22:38:48amiconnmarkun: It's no problem at all on a unit with buttons and reliable voice ui
22:38:50Lloreanamiconn: I really don't like the iPod wheel for somewhat blind access, just because with buttons for navigation, you at least get discrete steps
22:39:00 Quit jgarvey ("Leaving")
22:39:02parafinwhy does rockbox doesn't set date and time on created files?
22:39:09linuxstb_markun: And there are no Gigabeat devs left to support you....
22:39:11Lloreanparafin: What player?
22:39:15markunparafin: it doesn't?
22:39:16parafinipod video
22:39:35markunlinuxstb_: nope, they all went away after the port was finished
22:39:43parafinmarkun, no, at least according to propetries plugin
22:39:53parafini'll check on computer
22:40:16krazyktyou're talking about switching the keymap on the gigabeat, as per FS #6920?
22:40:41Lloreankrazykt: Yes.
22:41:01 Quit Buschel ()
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22:42:10krazykti agree that it's easier for one-handed operation
22:42:33krazyktof course, a ton of people will come out of the woodwork to complain about it changing
22:42:52markunor not
22:43:04LloreanMaybe a warning on the mailing list? Especially for blind users, a warning on a significant keymap change might be good.
22:43:12LloreanSince one of the buttons is "Pause", and that button stops voice.
22:43:17parafinit does set date/time
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22:44:12parafinbut if i check it in properties right after i create this file it shows 1980 year
22:44:15krazykton the mailing list definitely. would it warrant a "major change" on the wiki?
22:44:46parafinmay be it's because of directory cache? it's not updated right in creat function?
22:45:07parafinanyway it's a bug
22:45:11 Nick krazykt is now known as krazykit (n=kkit@
22:48:01linuxstb_parafin: Can you confirm that dircache is the issue? i.e. test with and without it enabled?
22:48:15parafini'll test
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22:55:22parafinyes, i confirm
22:55:33parafinwithout directory cache all works as expected
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22:56:51linuxstbparafin: Can you submit a bug report (assuming it's not already there...)
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22:59:49parafinbtw, it's modification time, which is displayed in properties?
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23:01:20parafinwhich category does this bug belong to?
23:01:51LambdaCalculus37Hello everyone!
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23:06:38linuxstbparafin: I would say "Operating System / Drivers"
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23:13:32*BigBambi notices the swapping of select and A for gigabeat in WPS being discussed
23:13:53BigBambiAs I wrote the patch (all two lines of it) it's safe to say I'm pro
23:15:52LambdaCalculus37Seeing as how I'm a little behind on what's going on, allow me to just observe for the moment.
23:16:03 Quit sarixe ("Peace")
23:16:19LloreanLambdaCalculus37: BigBambi's just commenting on a debate from a good half hour ago or so. :)
23:16:34BigBambiSoory, it is close to my heart!
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23:17:21linuxstb_BigBambi: Do any unofficial builds include that patch?
23:17:32BigBambiI don't know
23:17:35LambdaCalculus37Llorean: Have you managed to take a look at the links for the SDL libraries I posted to the forum thread at
23:17:43BigBambiFor myself I build with that only - I'll check
23:18:15LloreanLambdaCalculus37: I saw the links, I haven't read them. I'm mostly non-Rockbox today.
23:18:49LambdaCalculus37Llorean: No worries.
23:18:59BigBambiLinuxstb: It was in one then removed - one person on either side of the fence!
23:19:27LambdaCalculus37I've been delving into researching my Dell Digital Jukebox as a new Rockbox target.
23:20:08LambdaCalculus37But I'm waiting on word of the Creative ZEN Vision:M port first, since that would bring in TMS320 code that I can study.
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23:20:45LloreanLambdaCalculus37: Honestly, it may be a long time. The ZVM guys seem to come in surges, and repeat what the last surge did, at least in my observation
23:21:05 Quit midgey ()
23:21:12LambdaCalculus37Llorean: However long it takes, it takes. Rome wasn't built in a day, anyway.
23:21:22linuxstb_There's already code in the archopen and (I think) Neuros projects....
23:22:14linuxstb_Have you investigated the firmware upgrade procedure, and whether you could run your own code on it easily and safely?
23:22:35LambdaCalculus37linuxstb_: I know the Dell DJ uses a TMS320DA25x CPU, but there's no way to get a datasheet without signing a Texas Instruments NDA.
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23:23:17LambdaCalculus37linuxstb_: Dell offers firmware upgrades on their site still, but I haven't had a chance to try the firmware upgrade procedure out yet.
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23:24:07LambdaCalculus37I did hook it to my laptop and ran lsusb -v on it to gather some info.
23:24:12LambdaCalculus37I'll post those results later.
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23:27:22LambdaCalculus37I don't remember if the ZVM used the same variant of CPU, but I do know it's ARM with a C55x core.
23:27:40LambdaCalculus37There's also a USB slave controller built on the chip as well.
23:27:54LloreanLambdaCalculus37: I think they've put some information in our wiki.
23:28:12LambdaCalculus37Llorean: Let me check. I'll be right back.
23:29:05LambdaCalculus37Llorean: I was the last one to edit the wiki page for the TMS320.
23:29:27LloreanAh, okay
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23:29:50LloreanI'll admit, I usually don't pay much attention to new ports unless I see them being actively worked on. ;)
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23:30:26LambdaCalculus37I won't be able to really work on this for a while, but I'm at least trying to get something started by gathering information.
23:30:47LambdaCalculus37I'm going to start a DellDJ wiki page to start posting findings.
23:31:04LambdaCalculus37What I REALLY have to do is open the case and identify the hardware components.
23:31:07LloreanThe more info in the wiki, the easier it is for *anyone* to get started, I think.
23:31:25LambdaCalculus37Which is a good thing, of course. :)
23:31:28linuxstb_And it will start getting indexed by google...
23:31:40LambdaCalculus37Also good. :)
23:32:32LambdaCalculus37It's regretful that I had to put the Archos AV1xx port on the back burner, but the one I had wasn't mine to begin with.
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23:33:03LambdaCalculus37Ehh, one day I'll get another AV1xx to work with.
23:34:41LambdaCalculus37jhulst: Are you one of the guys researching the ZVM? Your name seems familiar.
23:35:14jhulstLambdaCalculus37: yes
23:35:47jhulstNot so much right now, college started again for the year
23:36:01LambdaCalculus37jhulst: Cool! I was wondering if you could share some of your research with me. I'm interested in starting a port to the Dell Digital Jukebox, another TMS320-based DAP.
23:37:26LambdaCalculus37linuxstb_: I nearly forgot to mention that the Dell DJ communicates using MTP protocol.
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23:38:03jhulstLambdaCalculus37: Most of my information is on the wiki page, if there is something specific, feel free to ask
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23:38:32jhulstLambdaCalculus37: Is it just with the MTP protocol or can you do UMS as well?
23:38:55linuxstb_jhulst: What's the status of the work? Has anyone found a way to run third-party code?
23:39:51LambdaCalculus37jhulst: I just got the Dell DJ only recently, about 2 months back. Haven't been able to do much because of work and school.
23:40:20LambdaCalculus37I ran it through lsusb -v last night, but I've got to post the results.
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23:41:35LambdaCalculus37I also think I may have to identify the chipset myself. Repeated searches on Google turn up precisely two things: Jack and Squat. And Jack left town.
23:42:29jhulstlinuxstb_: We have not found a way to run third party code, one of the biggest hurdles that we have recently crossed is actually get anything onto the device, All we know is on the forum thread
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23:44:28jhulstLambdaCalculus37: What do you mean by chipset? As in a TMS320DA25x?
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23:45:13LambdaCalculus37jhulst: Well, besides the CPU, I need to identify pretty much all of the chips used in the device.
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23:45:37jhulstOh, yeah we had to do all of that as well for the ZVM, Took it apart and scanned it
23:45:45LambdaCalculus37Before it slips my mind, I should mention that I'm dealing with a 1st Gen device here.
23:46:13LambdaCalculus37jhulst: My scanner's gone the way of the dodo.
23:47:00jhulstLambdaCalculus37: Isn't that a pretty old device?
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23:47:36LambdaCalculus37jhulst: The Dell DJ or the scanner? /me knows what the answer's going to be :)
23:47:49jhulstLambdaCalculus37: The Dell DJ :)
23:48:23LambdaCalculus37jhulst: Yeah, I think they came out in 2002, if I remember correctly.
23:49:44LambdaCalculus37jhulst: I did find this site on one of my many journeys:, but I'll be damned if they tell me what I'm looking for.
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23:50:28jhulstAccording to wikipedia, they are manufactured by Creative, I wonder how close it would be to a ZVM
23:51:19LambdaCalculus37jhulst: They're basically an older ZEN/NOMAD that's been redressed and OEMed by Dell.
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23:51:54ddaltonanyone interested in the alarm talking on ipods with the wake up rtc?
23:51:57jhulstWhy the interest in such an old device :)
23:52:54LambdaCalculus37jhulst: Close to the same reason for Rockbox in the first place: Nasty, unintuitive menu system.
23:53:08LambdaCalculus37That, and also to use it as a proper UMS device.
23:53:21LambdaCalculus37Lastly... why not? :)
23:54:43jhulst:) one of the things I've discovered is the amount of work it takes to even get to the point where we are
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23:55:02ddaltonok I have just about got the alarm talking. What button is the menu button on the sim?
23:55:52LambdaCalculus37ddalton: .
23:57:34LambdaCalculus37jhulst: I know the road to a port may be long and hard, and fraught with danger at every corner... but I say I'm going to do it.
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