| 00:00:33 | DefineByte | find out where the config file is (it's hidden by default), attach, find log file, attach x2 v run rbutil attach. |
| 00:00:38 | | Join jac0b [0] (n=jac0b@user-11far66.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 00:00:55 | DefineByte | hmm i think i miscounted xD |
| 00:01:02 | | Quit Matt-W (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:01:13 | DefineByte | still the config file is hidden by default |
| 00:01:16 | | Quit davina (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:01:23 | Llorean | In that case, there's a lot of steps to installing RBUtil, creating the log, etc, as well |
| 00:01:33 | DefineByte | you want a clueless user to delve into the underbelly of RB? |
| 00:01:36 | Llorean | Either way, one requires an additional program to be run or available, the other does not. |
| 00:01:45 | Llorean | DefineByte: How is "copying one file" delving into the underbelly? |
| 00:01:56 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@pD952BF16.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:02:10 | DefineByte | the steps for installing RBUtil have already occured. it is the only supported method of installation (in the future) |
| 00:02:18 | Llorean | Yes |
| 00:02:27 | Llorean | But again, there's no guarantee it's on the computer they're using |
| 00:02:44 | Llorean | Someone's player dies at work, they seek help during lunch, for example |
| 00:02:46 | rasher | There's no guarantee it *can* run rbutil |
| 00:02:51 | | Quit BHSPitMonkey (Connection timed out) |
| 00:02:59 | Llorean | There's no sense in REQUIRING RBUtil if it's not *necessary*, and in this case, it's not. |
| 00:03:19 | Kalthare | Incidentally, is it intentional that rbutil isn't included in the tarballs? |
| 00:03:21 | DefineByte | jeez, what is the point of RBUtil then? |
| 00:03:22 | jac0b | I am having trouble building a rb environment on ubuntu |
| 00:03:25 | Llorean | The whole point of Rockbox is to not tether your player to a specific piece of software, and we shouldn't tether support to that piece of software beyond any files created during installation |
| 00:03:31 | Llorean | DefineByte: It's a bloody INSTALLER |
| 00:03:38 | jac0b | checking whether the C compiler (gcc ) works... no |
| 00:03:38 | jac0b | configure: error: installation or configuration problem: C compiler cannot create executables. |
| 00:03:39 | DefineByte | haha easy :p |
| 00:03:44 | Llorean | DefineByte: How many more times do you need to be told that, seriously? |
| 00:03:49 | jac0b | that is the error I am getting |
| 00:03:55 | DefineByte | so why is it called rbutil then and not rbinstaller? |
| 00:03:55 | | Quit petur ("Zzzzz") |
| 00:04:02 | obo | jac0b: have you installed the build-essential package? |
| 00:04:07 | Llorean | DefineByte: Because it can also create voice files, talk clips, install themes... |
| 00:04:27 | jac0b | where is that |
| 00:04:32 | DefineByte | hmmm i thought it was just an installer. my mistake :) |
| 00:04:39 | obo | it's a ubuntu package... so apt-get/synatpic etc |
| 00:04:48 | jac0b | oh okay |
| 00:04:54 | Llorean | DefineByte: Its purpose is to be an installer. |
| 00:05:04 | DefineByte | but... :) |
| 00:05:05 | Llorean | DefineByte: But it serves several secondary functions. |
| 00:05:21 | Llorean | Even if it does serve other functions, none of those is "be required for support requests." |
| 00:05:22 | DefineByte | like formatting support requests? no? why not? |
| 00:05:36 | DefineByte | and why is that? |
| 00:05:43 | Llorean | I've told you, several times |
| 00:05:48 | Llorean | It may not be available when the request is being made. |
| 00:05:56 | Llorean | Explain to me why, if software is not necessary, we should MAKE it necessary? |
| 00:06:31 | jac0b | that should be added to the wiki for |
| 00:06:41 | | Join atsea-68 [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-a00f7fdf1a6daefe) |
| 00:06:49 | | Quit atsea-68 (SendQ exceeded) |
| 00:06:54 | DefineByte | i don't remember saying support should be denied to those who don't follow the formal procedure. one minute, i'll check |
| 00:06:59 | DefineByte | wait, nope :) |
| 00:07:07 | jac0b | obo: thanks that worked |
| 00:07:07 | | Quit SoapSud ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]") |
| 00:07:08 | delYsid | besides, qt is not accessible, there are people on that planet that can not even use rbutil. |
| 00:07:13 | Llorean | DefineByte: You said the formal support process should include an unnecessary step. |
| 00:07:13 | Kalthare | jac0b: it's specific to Debian and Ubuntu. |
| 00:07:32 | Bagder | delYsid: it is accessible, or at least it can be |
| 00:07:46 | DefineByte | no the FORMAL request procedure should require it. informal requests would obviously...not |
| 00:07:46 | jac0b | maybe at least a note saying to install that for debian based os's |
| 00:07:46 | DefineByte | :) |
| 00:07:56 | delYsid | Bagder: no, I tell you, reality is different. Trolltech is doing pr, but there is no working solution yet. |
| 00:08:03 | Bagder | jac0b: it is mentioned in the wiki already |
| 00:08:04 | Llorean | DefineByte: Why should we have to ask "Give me this", find out their log contains outdated cfg settings, then make a second request, rather than requesting exactly what we need up front? |
| 00:08:30 | Llorean | DefineByte: Why should the formal request be made more complicated by the additional chance of unavailable information? |
| 00:08:44 | DefineByte | where are you getting this outdated log from? you were the one who started all this paste the log business. :) |
| 00:08:51 | Llorean | DefineByte: You really, really need to stop making things more complicated. Yes, RBUtil doing it might be *slightly* easier, but it also add a degree of complexity that invites failure. |
| 00:08:52 | rasher | Bagder: The fact taht FILES need to include FILES is a bit... odd |
| 00:09:00 | Bagder | hehe, yeah |
| 00:09:13 | Llorean | DefineByte: I explicitly said I do NOT WANT IT PASTED. You're the one who mentioned pasting it to the forums. |
| 00:09:24 | DefineByte | how is running one command more complicated than changing rockbox settings and copying two files neither of which you've never encountered before? |
| 00:09:27 | Llorean | DefineByte: And I don't appreciate you claiming otherwise. |
| 00:09:56 | rasher | amiconn: Are you sure we want to replace usb with U S B? |
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| 00:10:18 | DefineByte | heh, you are silly. the pasting part is not the important one :) |
| 00:10:21 | | Quit jac0b ("Leaving") |
| 00:10:21 | bluebrother | delYsid: that is not true. It is accessible |
| 00:10:33 | bluebrother | oops. *scrolls down* |
| 00:10:50 | rasher | amiconn: "Ausblenddauer" -> "A U S Blendmodus" |
| 00:10:56 | delYsid | no, qt is not accessible right now. |
| 00:11:01 | delYsid | i would know if it were. |
| 00:11:04 | DefineByte | you suggested attaching an old log file, i suggested attaching a newly generated support ticket :) |
| 00:11:07 | bluebrother | well, I had rbutil speaking. So ...? |
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| 00:11:13 | amiconn | rasher: Hmm, then it should be \bUSB\b |
| 00:11:17 | ddalton | ~what with? |
| 00:11:19 | bluebrother | what "PR" are they doing? |
| 00:11:38 | rasher | amiconn: I guess, or just without the /i |
| 00:11:38 | bluebrother | I tried a demo version of jaws, Thunder and NVDA. |
| 00:11:41 | delYsid | bluebrother: on windows, right? |
| 00:11:46 | Llorean | DefineByte: I suggested the installation log, and the current config. You suggested requiring they use a program that may not be installed. |
| 00:11:48 | bluebrother | yep. |
| 00:11:52 | delYsid | but on linux, it is not |
| 00:11:54 | amiconn | rasher: I rather don' |
| 00:12:01 | amiconn | t rely on capitalisation |
| 00:12:03 | bluebrother | well, what's spoken on linux anyway? |
| 00:12:14 | delYsid | bluebrother: gtk2 |
| 00:12:26 | bluebrother | and 95% of our users are most likely windows users. |
| 00:12:29 | ddalton | and how did jaws go? with it? |
| 00:12:32 | amiconn | Hmm, or perhaps in this case it's better |
| 00:12:42 | DefineByte | for the formal procedure, yes, it should be installed :) |
| 00:12:48 | * | amiconn fix |
| 00:12:52 | Llorean | DefineByte: NO |
| 00:12:58 | Llorean | DefineByte: The formal procedure should NOT require extra software. |
| 00:13:01 | Bagder | I agree with Llorean |
| 00:13:01 | bluebrother | well, I don't know how jaws usually goes. It worked fine as far as I can tell. |
| 00:13:07 | DefineByte | and and reason for the no? :) |
| 00:13:11 | rasher | amiconn: well, \bUSB\b would probaly work better, I suppose. But as it is now, it's broken |
| 00:13:16 | Kalthare | delYsid: I'm not sure I understand. what's the problem with qt on Linux? |
| 00:13:25 | Llorean | DefineByte: I'm going to put my foot down here, and say that as the primary support contact for Rockbox, I will NOT write a formal procedure requiring any software beyond a file manager, a USB 2.0 driver, a FAT32 driver, and Rockbox on a player |
| 00:13:33 | DefineByte | you seem to think i'm closing other avenues of support |
| 00:14:03 | Llorean | The informal procedure can use handy tickets generated by another piece of software. |
| 00:14:08 | bluebrother | DefineByte: what's the intention? Making rbutil a real support tool would be a bunch of work too |
| 00:14:26 | amiconn | rasher: Yeah. Strange thing is - I _did_ notice the A-U-S-Blenddauer, but didn't realise it was my fault... |
| 00:15:06 | bluebrother | and as I assume rbutil will help decreasing the support questions because it does everything needed for installation why put work in yet another tool? |
| 00:15:11 | bluebrother | (that even limits the user) |
| 00:16:42 | DefineByte | llorean suggests changing rockbox settings and copying and attaching files, all i'm saying is that the fist part if not needed and may be confusing to the user |
| 00:17:04 | Llorean | DefineByte: I never once suggested changing Rockbox settings. |
| 00:17:16 | bluebrother | changing settings? In what way? And what's confusing about resetting the settings? |
| 00:17:19 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:17:57 | | Quit DerPapst ("So Long And Thanks For All The Fish!") |
| 00:18:11 | | Quit atsea- (Remote closed the connection) |
| 00:19:26 | DefineByte | wait, i'm slow for some reason i was seeing things from within rockbox. forget that. :D |
| 00:20:45 | DefineByte | .rockbox == hidden by default of course but...we're not in rockbox |
| 00:20:52 | DefineByte | xD |
| 00:21:12 | DefineByte | how would you prevent users copying outdated logs? |
| 00:21:24 | Llorean | DefineByte: What outdated logs? |
| 00:21:35 | DefineByte | generated by rbutil |
| 00:21:39 | DefineByte | apparently |
| 00:21:54 | | Quit nicktastic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:21:56 | Llorean | Is their installation going to magically change SVN revisions without a new install? |
| 00:22:18 | Llorean | The RBUtil logs should be of the sort that don't become outdated until there's need for a new log anyway. |
| 00:22:25 | DefineByte | how would you know if the user didn't manually copy a new .rockbox folder over? |
| 00:22:29 | bluebrother | outdated logs will only occur if the user installs Rockbox manually |
| 00:22:32 | DefineByte | it's a simple unzip |
| 00:22:39 | bluebrother | but an average user will just not do this ;-) |
| 00:22:42 | Llorean | DefineByte: In that case, any log generated by RBUtil would be bunk too. |
| 00:22:46 | bluebrother | rbutil also downloads etc. |
| 00:23:11 | Llorean | A user can falsify whatever he wants, and/or not provide useful information. |
| 00:23:19 | DefineByte | how would it be bunk? scan DAP on support ticket generation |
| 00:23:35 | Llorean | DefineByte: Scan for what? If a user manually installed, their files could contain whatever they want them to. |
| 00:23:42 | | Quit Febs ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]") |
| 00:24:02 | DefineByte | rockbox-info? the md5s of the files? anything |
| 00:24:03 | Llorean | DefineByte: As you said, the only supported installation method will be RBUtil, in this hypothetical future. If they installed by other means, it's not supported now is it? |
| 00:24:17 | DefineByte | how would yoiu know that? |
| 00:24:26 | DefineByte | RBUtil would tell you |
| 00:24:32 | Llorean | DefineByte: If they built on their own computer, but it's clean SVN, the MD5s may be different, and rockbox-info could be deleted or not copied over. |
| 00:24:48 | DefineByte | exactly |
| 00:24:54 | DefineByte | the md5s would be different |
| 00:25:00 | DefineByte | rbutil would check that |
| 00:25:21 | Llorean | But it'd be a 100% valid build. |
| 00:25:49 | Llorean | If you build the same SVN source on AMD64 vs x86 versions of arm-elf-gcc, for some reason there's variance. |
| 00:25:49 | bluebrother | I'm really under the impression we're discussing some rare case here. |
| 00:25:58 | bluebrother | is it really worth it? |
| 00:26:03 | DefineByte | but the logs would be inconsistant. RBUtil could tell the support "staff" what build the user was actually running |
| 00:26:22 | Llorean | DefineByte: How do you identify it as *anything* but "Not the current version"? |
| 00:26:33 | bluebrother | DefineByte: it is absolutely NOT possible to guarantee logfile and installed build to be in sync |
| 00:26:37 | DefineByte | be checking SVN? :) |
| 00:26:42 | bluebrother | won't work. |
| 00:26:42 | | Quit ddalton ("leaving") |
| 00:27:03 | DefineByte | put the MD5s in FILES? :) |
| 00:27:08 | Llorean | DefineByte: How does that help? Build every previous build on AMD64 and x86 and take all their MD5s? |
| 00:27:08 | bluebrother | besides, it isn't worth the work needed to implement such a thing |
| 00:27:34 | bluebrother | what's the problem? If a user has problems just instruct him to update using rbutil. |
| 00:27:40 | DefineByte | i guess if you see support as fun instead of work :D |
| 00:27:41 | | Quit ender` (" The secret of success is sincerity. Once you can fake that, you've got it made.") |
| 00:27:41 | bluebrother | the same as we do now: update first. |
| 00:28:01 | | Quit elinenbe (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 00:28:03 | bluebrother | afterwards we can be sure log and build match. |
| 00:28:23 | Llorean | DefineByte: Your method doesn't ensure anything, so I don't see what you're talking about. |
| 00:28:54 | Kalthare | Can rockbox only be built on x86 hosts, then? |
| 00:29:08 | Llorean | Kalthare: Nope, any host you can build the appropriate cross-compilers on. |
| 00:29:17 | Kalthare | So, there's that, too. |
| 00:29:35 | DefineByte | it would assure you know what build the user was running. look if support isn't really something you want to put a lot of work into i understand. this is an OS community after all and i'm not sure anyone else in OS offers something similar |
| 00:29:52 | DefineByte | ensure/ |
| 00:29:56 | Llorean | DefineByte: Support is something we put a lot of work into, but I don't see what that ensures. |
| 00:30:02 | | Join krazykt [0] (n=kkit@140.141.29.4) |
| 00:30:10 | Llorean | DefineByte: The old log will show a non-current build, at which point we immediately tell them to update. |
| 00:30:24 | Kalthare | Anyhow, I've heard gcc has at least one optimization that's slightly random in its results. |
| 00:30:26 | Llorean | DefineByte: So, how exactly does "outdated" logs provide us anything but actually useful information? |
| 00:30:36 | | Join jac0b [0] (n=jac0b@user-11far66.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 00:30:37 | | Quit krazykit (Nick collision from services.) |
| 00:30:41 | | Nick krazykt is now known as krazykit (n=kkit@140.141.29.4) |
| 00:31:05 | DefineByte | all it would tell you is the build bootloader rev and the settings in a pre-formatted way. so the logs wouldn't have a date in them? or even a hash of the date? :) |
| 00:31:25 | bluebrother | and then you un-hash the date? |
| 00:31:30 | Llorean | DefineByte: Um... build revision is more specific than date? |
| 00:31:40 | DefineByte | yup |
| 00:31:43 | jac0b | now I am getting another error building a rb environment on ubuntu |
| 00:31:46 | jac0b | make[2]: sh-elf-ar: Command not found |
| 00:31:46 | jac0b | make[2]: *** [libgcc.a] Error 127 |
| 00:31:46 | jac0b | make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/jacob/build/gcc/gcc' |
| 00:31:46 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK jac0b |
| 00:31:46 | jac0b | make[1]: *** [stmp-multilib] Error 2 |
| 00:31:46 | jac0b | make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/jacob/build/gcc/gcc' |
| 00:31:47 | *** | Alert Mode level 1 |
| 00:31:47 | jac0b | make: *** [all-gcc] Error 2 |
| 00:31:50 | bluebrother | we use svn revision currently. |
| 00:31:51 | Llorean | DefineByte: Why the heck do we need a date if we have a build revision #? |
| 00:31:58 | bluebrother | jac0b: please use a pastebin for multiline pastes |
| 00:32:00 | Llorean | jac0b: Please don't spam the channel, see the channel guidelines. |
| 00:32:07 | bluebrother | have you build binutils first? |
| 00:32:10 | Bagder | jac0b: are you using rockboxdev.sh ? |
| 00:32:22 | | Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon) |
| 00:32:25 | jac0b | bluebrother: yes |
| 00:32:27 | DefineByte | per-file? |
| 00:32:36 | bluebrother | jac0b: also installed and in PATH? |
| 00:32:42 | bluebrother | DefineByte: yes. |
| 00:32:42 | jac0b | bagder: no |
| 00:32:46 | Llorean | DefineByte: Per-file what? |
| 00:33:00 | Bagder | jac0b: I'd suggest you do, it makes all that automatically for you |
| 00:33:14 | DefineByte | all i'm seeing this as is formatting important information in a user friendly way. that is all |
| 00:33:18 | bluebrother | why don't you just check how it currently works? By storing the svn revision we can also detect (and clean up, but that's not implemented yet) old files |
| 00:33:22 | DefineByte | if it is too much work, fine |
| 00:33:29 | Llorean | DefineByte: Why do you refuse to answer questions. |
| 00:33:47 | Llorean | It's not too much work to hash a date, it's 100% silly and pointless if the SVN revision is already included. |
| 00:33:55 | jac0b | damn I should have did that from the start |
| 00:34:00 | DefineByte | where are you getting this SVN rev from? |
| 00:34:05 | Llorean | It's A) Human readable and B) gives information as to the date and time the source code came from. |
| 00:34:05 | DefineByte | the outdated logs? |
| 00:34:06 | jac0b | badger: thanks |
| 00:34:09 | Llorean | DefineByte: Exactly. |
| 00:34:15 | bluebrother | from the server. You want me to guess it? |
| 00:34:32 | Llorean | DefineByte: If the SVN revision is not "The current SVN revision" we stop and say "Use RBUtil to update your Rockbox installation" |
| 00:34:36 | Bagder | jac0b: if you move your already downloaded tarballs to the dir rockboxdev.sh is set to use, it won't have to re-download them |
| 00:34:37 | DefineByte | and if the user updates a single file manually? |
| 00:34:57 | bluebrother | the average user *won't* do this. |
| 00:34:57 | JdGordon | hey all |
| 00:35:03 | Llorean | DefineByte: How do you update a file to "newer than the current version" without using a custom build? |
| 00:35:06 | | Join SirFunk [0] (n=Sir@206-159-155-246.netsync.net) |
| 00:35:08 | JdGordon | did I miss anything interesting re e200r last night? |
| 00:35:27 | Llorean | DefineByte: If a user updates a file to a version other than the current version, they're lying to us when we ask if they're using an official version of Rockbox. |
| 00:35:37 | Bagder | JdGordon: this perhaps => http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2007/09/04/rockbox-on-the-e200r-models/ |
| 00:35:43 | amiconn | rasher: Hmm, if the pool becomes rather big, it becomes somewhat slow, at least on windows |
| 00:35:45 | Llorean | DefineByte: Such a user could readily provide a false or edited log from RBUtil anyway, so it's pointless. |
| 00:35:45 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 00:35:45 | * | bluebrother just installed gnopernicus and it segfauls upon startup :/ |
| 00:35:50 | DefineByte | and if the user updates his RBUtil installed RB to a custom build? |
| 00:36:10 | Llorean | DefineByte: If they do that, they could update it to provide falsified logs, as they know we don't support custom builds. |
| 00:36:12 | DefineByte | i'm really not seeing users forging support requests here |
| 00:36:44 | Llorean | DefineByte: If they're not falsifying support requests, then the question of "What if they modified a file" is irrelevant: We don't provide support on modified builds |
| 00:37:06 | DefineByte | unless they forgot they altered the file? |
| 00:37:28 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf ("Verlassend") |
| 00:37:30 | Bagder | the rev number tells |
| 00:37:35 | DefineByte | do you rally see users with perfect recall in support requests? |
| 00:37:43 | Llorean | Bagder: He's assuming they replace one file on their player, rather than a whole build |
| 00:37:49 | Bagder | oh |
| 00:38:06 | Bagder | users can always mess up, no matter what we do |
| 00:38:11 | Llorean | DefineByte: In which case unless rbutil does an md5 sum of every official Rockbox file and compares, it's pointless anyway. |
| 00:38:12 | DefineByte | or hell, dleteing a file |
| 00:38:35 | | Join LycoLoco_ [0] (n=Lyco@cpe-075-181-041-203.carolina.res.rr.com) |
| 00:38:46 | Bagder | besides, trying to imagine use cases that users might do is pointless imo |
| 00:38:46 | Llorean | DefineByte: If a user deletes a file, we'll know from the error generated. |
| 00:38:48 | DefineByte | that's what I'm suggesting, yeah |
| 00:38:50 | DefineByte | too far? |
| 00:39:07 | JdGordon | Bagder: if thats the most recent news... did you miss that I got a stripped e2t version giogn which can load our own code onto the e200 and run it? |
| 00:39:11 | bluebrother | well, we could write a usb stack that hides the .rockbox folder except for rbutil. |
| 00:39:13 | DefineByte | and if he opens it in notepad to "fix" it? |
| 00:39:15 | JdGordon | I had a nice flashing wheel last nitght :) |
| 00:39:16 | Llorean | DefineByte: If a user modifies a single file, it's highly unlikely it won't work without updating the whole build, and even then, they're compiling for themselves: They have a clue. |
| 00:39:18 | bluebrother | but it's completely pointless |
| 00:39:38 | Bagder | JdGordon: that I missed. very nice! |
| 00:39:48 | Llorean | DefineByte: Honestly, at this point you're being silly. A user who opens it in notepad to fix it is probably going to remember that he did that. |
| 00:39:52 | DefineByte | exactly, it won't work and then they come here |
| 00:39:53 | bluebrother | and btw, missing files could easily detected from the log |
| 00:40:10 | JdGordon | Bagder: wasnt really hard and linuxstb should take the credit :) |
| 00:40:12 | DefineByte | what log? |
| 00:40:15 | Bagder | hehe |
| 00:40:28 | DefineByte | the one generated at install time? |
| 00:40:29 | bluebrother | ah, and if a user replaces his build with a custom build rockbox-info.txt will tell us |
| 00:40:47 | bluebrother | yes, that one. You just need to check if all files in the log are still present ... |
| 00:40:52 | DefineByte | so why can't rbutil gather that? |
| 00:41:01 | amiconn | rasher: Btw, if you need to quote some tts options, using double quotes won't work. Single quotes do work |
| 00:41:02 | DefineByte | or modified :) |
| 00:41:18 | DefineByte | could be filesystem corruption for all we know |
| 00:41:18 | amiconn | (e.g. for sapi: '/voice:Microsoft Mary') |
| 00:41:19 | bluebrother | *argh* |
| 00:41:30 | bluebrother | hell could freeze as well. |
| 00:41:37 | DefineByte | or a bad USB connection |
| 00:41:42 | Llorean | DefineByte: Why do you think there's some phantom user who will modify or break a file by compiling a single file of his own, then forget he did it, and tell us his build is unmodified in the support request? |
| 00:41:48 | DefineByte | now you're getting it :D |
| 00:41:49 | *** | Alert Mode OFF |
| 00:42:06 | Soap | If I may step in here for a moment. |
| 00:42:20 | DefineByte | and if the USB connextion is faulty when transfering files over 1MB? |
| 00:42:25 | DefineByte | who knows :) |
| 00:42:44 | DefineByte | will rbutil verify the installation? |
| 00:42:51 | bluebrother | and if hell freezes while the user downloads Rockbox? |
| 00:42:57 | Llorean | DefineByte: Consider this: I've been doing support for Rockbox for 2 and a half years, and have read every post in the forum during that period. I think your idea is unnecessary. |
| 00:43:10 | Soap | In your scenario, DefineByte, as described by Llorean... So the user does just that - uses a modified build w/o knowing. (S)he will be told to update to the latest version - thus overwriting the covertly modified file. |
| 00:43:26 | bluebrother | and how should "verifying" be done? |
| 00:43:39 | DefineByte | md5? )_) |
| 00:43:40 | Llorean | Soap: He's hypothesizing a user that's running the current SVN version of Rockbox, then immediately modifies a file, and then forgets, all within the average of 2.5 hours between revisions |
| 00:43:41 | bluebrother | without great speed penalties and stuff? |
| 00:43:52 | bluebrother | well, here you have the penalty. |
| 00:43:57 | DefineByte | i'm just playing with the idea : rally :D |
| 00:44:12 | DefineByte | really/ |
| 00:44:19 | * | bluebrother starts considering this discussion and "idea" pointless and shuts up |
| 00:44:38 | bluebrother | we are writing software for users, not idiots. |
| 00:44:40 | DefineByte | hey, no skin xD |
| 00:44:50 | DefineByte | have you been in the forums? |
| 00:44:56 | DefineByte | :p |
| 00:45:07 | bluebrother | yes. Not even only the Rockbox ones. |
| 00:45:14 | JdGordon | bluebrother: your forgetting about all the ipod users... |
| 00:45:16 | Llorean | DefineByte: If the whole statistically likely ONE user this happens to in the next four years shows up, I'll happily take his support request for the benefit of enjoying the fact that users don't have to download RBUtil to provide me the necessary information to give support. |
| 00:45:57 | DefineByte | they already need rbutil to install and presumably update with a fixed build |
| 00:45:58 | bluebrother | JdGordon: maybe a bit ... but those will use our official install method (i.e. rbutil at some point). And everything else (i.e. those fancy custom builds) are unsupported :) |
| 00:46:00 | Soap | Llorean: On another topic. BigMac's interest in music metadata triggering .cfg file changes reminded me of the older feature request to allow/create a hybrid playlist/config. Either by allowing config "commands" in playlists (as .m3u comments?) or allowing a config file to "launch" a playlist. (or vise versa). Why, if you recall, was this idea dismissed? |
| 00:46:47 | Llorean | DefineByte: We've covered this: RBUtil may not be usable at the time, while downloading an extracting an SVN build might be. |
| 00:46:52 | bluebrother | too much possible confusion? |
| 00:47:11 | Bagder | Soap: a playlist can hardly launch anything since it is just a list of files and they can be played in shuffled order |
| 00:47:22 | Bagder | the config could be based on dirs or files though |
| 00:47:34 | Llorean | I like the idea of allowing playlists to be launched by .cfg files |
| 00:47:36 | Llorean | A LOT |
| 00:47:43 | DefineByte | right, so you're getting users to manually update. i thought they wouldn't do this? |
| 00:47:43 | Bagder | but I don't think we've seen any decent implementation that doesn't spin up the disk on every track change |
| 00:47:45 | Llorean | But that's just me. |
| 00:47:54 | Llorean | DefineByte: What do you mean they wouldn't do this? |
| 00:48:32 | Soap | Bagder: I grok that - I ment the .m3u parser reads specially formatted comment lines directing it to a .cfg file to be used. |
| 00:48:45 | Llorean | Soap: I like the idea of .cfg files being able to launch playlists, and playlists being able to include .cfg files (though absolutely only via the "queue" function, and never in a saved one) |
| 00:48:54 | DefineByte | you said the average user would do this then you're encouraging them to do it. user enters forum , sees updating manually to be the mrthod for fixing problrms, they update manually, error! |
| 00:49:04 | Llorean | So you could queue a .cfg that changes the settings and launches a new playlist. |
| 00:49:16 | Bagder | I would prefer having cfg files that are dir-specific, song-specific or even metadata-specific |
| 00:49:27 | Soap | That would allow BigMac to have a different EQ per album without changing the original tracks, etc. |
| 00:49:30 | DefineByte | users will read other's posts and try to fix the problem themselvs before posing about it |
| 00:49:30 | Bagder | so that all my 422 playlists would use them |
| 00:49:39 | Llorean | DefineByte: Then users will do all kinds of crazy things |
| 00:49:40 | | Quit freqmod (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:49:50 | DefineByte | and there's te rub |
| 00:49:51 | | Quit ze (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:49:57 | Llorean | DefineByte: But every post will include "Use RBUtil to update" "I can't install RButil here" "Okay, please manually install by extracting..." |
| 00:50:06 | DefineByte | how do you recognise a crazy user when they make a support requst? |
| 00:50:31 | Llorean | DefineByte: So, are you suggesting we deny support request to people who can't use RBUtil? Because either your method or mine both require manual installs... |
| 00:50:35 | Llorean | SO I don't see why you even bring this up |
| 00:50:39 | Soap | Bagder: You mean as in a .cfg file which says "When playing from directory X use settings set 1 and when playing from directory Y use settings set 2"? |
| 00:51:01 | | Nick BigBambi is now known as SherlockHolmes (n=alex@86.66.198.24) |
| 00:51:04 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 00:51:04 | Bagder | Soap: yes, probably like "dir.cfg" places in the directory, always found and used if present |
| 00:51:07 | Bagder | placed |
| 00:51:13 | DefineByte | I'm suggesting the preferred method. that is all :) |
| 00:51:15 | bluebrother | well, you don't need to install rbutil. It's a single binary. |
| 00:51:17 | | Nick SherlockHolmes is now known as BigBambi (n=alex@86.66.198.24) |
| 00:51:27 | bluebrother | but it might not work for everyone. |
| 00:51:40 | Llorean | DefineByte: Then arguing against my method with a point that's equally true for your method is silly. Next challenge? |
| 00:51:50 | Bagder | and probably a [song].cfg for a cfg for a particular song |
| 00:52:04 | DefineByte | what's is your method again? |
| 00:52:13 | Bagder | for metadata-specific, it would require a special dir for those configs |
| 00:52:17 | Llorean | DefineByte: Not requiring RBUtil. |
| 00:52:25 | Soap | I see, Bagder. Thus the problem of spinning up the drive every track change as a relevant .cfg file is needed to be looked for? |
| 00:52:42 | Bagder | the cfg files would be checked for, and loaded when the songs are loaded |
| 00:52:55 | DefineByte | require? nay, just prefer :) |
| 00:52:58 | Bagder | metadata-on-buffer... |
| 00:53:05 | Soap | I was getting to that. |
| 00:53:16 | Soap | ;) |
| 00:53:17 | Llorean | DefineByte: I consider making it a part of the formal process a "requirement" for formal support. |
| 00:53:27 | DefineByte | if it's outside the scope of RBUtil that's fine :) |
| 00:53:54 | DefineByte | formal procedures can't have optional steps? blimey |
| 00:54:02 | Llorean | DefineByte: As I've said, I will fight tooth and nail to have the formal process involve the use of any program to make the request. |
| 00:54:15 | Llorean | DefineByte: If it's an optional step, why not just leave it out? |
| 00:54:31 | DefineByte | because it's easier for the user |
| 00:55:17 | DefineByte | natually, only if they alrady have rbutil |
| 00:55:23 | | Quit LycoLoco (Connection timed out) |
| 00:55:27 | DefineByte | which they should :D |
| 00:55:33 | | Join ze [0] (i=ze@cpe-76-175-22-254.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 00:56:03 | Llorean | DefineByte: Running a program, then attaching one file located somewhere on your computer, vs attaching two files located somewhere on your computer are about equally difficult I'd say |
| 00:56:07 | | Join Xero [0] (n=xero9364@c-24-126-30-244.hsd1.wv.comcast.net) |
| 00:56:18 | Xero | Does Rockbox work with iPod Shuffle? |
| 00:56:19 | Llorean | I'd rather have one set process. |
| 00:56:23 | Xero | Or must you have a screen? |
| 00:56:37 | Llorean | Xero: It doesn't require a screen, but the iPod Shuffle is not supported. Nobody has ported to it. |
| 00:56:39 | DefineByte | but the user would knoe where the one file is but not the two |
| 00:56:44 | Xero | :( :( :( |
| 00:56:47 | Llorean | DefineByte: How do they *not* know where the two are? |
| 00:56:53 | Xero | Sadness are upon me. |
| 00:57:05 | Soap | Xero: I'll sell you a Nano. |
| 00:57:07 | Bagder | Xero: sell it and buy a unit rockbox runs on... :-) |
| 00:57:19 | Xero | Soap: How much for a Nano? |
| 00:57:23 | Llorean | DefineByte: Are they magically going to psychically know where the one from RButil is? Or will they have to read it from the screen somewhere? Is it harder for them to read the folder name on their player? |
| 00:57:33 | | Join RudMan_ [0] (n=RudMan@ool-182fb504.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:58:01 | DefineByte | rbutil can't tell tem? i thought c++ was turing complete (or what ever the language in use is)/ |
| 00:58:43 | Llorean | DefineByte: Yes, so they read it on the screen somewhere. |
| 00:58:58 | Llorean | DefineByte: And the place where they find out what the formal support process is, *that* can't tell them where the files are on the device? |
| 00:59:22 | | Quit RudMan_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 00:59:32 | | Join RudMan_ [0] (n=RudMan@ool-182fb504.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 00:59:38 | DefineByte | i see, you're thinking of them actually reading your guidlines. surely your experiance tells you otherwise? |
| 00:59:58 | Llorean | DefineByte: If they don't read the guidelines, how do they know to even *run* RBUtil to create the ticket? |
| 01:00 |
| 01:00:05 | DefineByte | they post request, you say run rbutil, they attach file done. |
| 01:00:13 | | Quit perplexity (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 01:00:18 | Llorean | They post request, I link instructions, they attach files, done. |
| 01:00:21 | Soap | I'll pay $10 to the first person, (DefineByte or Llorean) to stop this conversation. |
| 01:00:27 | Llorean | Alright, I'm done. |
| 01:00:37 | * | pixelma gets bored |
| 01:00:45 | Soap | you want that check, cash, or donation in your name? |
| 01:00:47 | DefineByte | they read instructions? riiiight. :p |
| 01:00:47 | | Quit jac0b (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:01:14 | Llorean | Soap: I'll put that $10 up to definebyte if he spends one year reading every post in our forums and acclimatizing himself with our userbase. Otherwise, keep it, or donate it, your choice. :) |
| 01:01:23 | DefineByte | i guess you could send the leather bound version through the mail |
| 01:01:25 | | Quit mikeT ("-") |
| 01:01:39 | scorche | Soap: you are always in here flaunting your money around! ;) |
| 01:01:43 | DefineByte | haha |
| 01:02:13 | DefineByte | i know you like to think they read them but...they really don't. |
| 01:02:30 | DefineByte | most people see the length of te page and skip it |
| 01:03:03 | scorche | so we should adjust to the lowest common denominator? |
| 01:03:10 | scorche | this isnt the US school system... |
| 01:03:15 | DefineByte | where as one sentence in a post specifically directed at them they're more liekly to heed |
| 01:03:49 | DefineByte | the idea is to shiled you guys from them :) |
| 01:03:56 | DefineByte | shield/ |
| 01:03:58 | Llorean | DefineByte: I repeat, I've spent two years dealing with our userbase, I know how much they do or don't read. Much better than you have any idea, I assume. It's better to force them to read, as they'll have to at some point anyway. |
| 01:04:06 | Soap | motherfucker |
| 01:04:14 | Soap | I just made the donation and you start back up. |
| 01:04:21 | Llorean | Soap: Sorry, that's my last comment on it. |
| 01:04:40 | DefineByte | force? how's that work? |
| 01:05:04 | DefineByte | i guess you could put some hidden works in their and require them and registration |
| 01:05:13 | Llorean | DefineByte: That would be off topic for this channel, it's about Rockbox not about user herding, I humbly request you read the guidelines. |
| 01:05:49 | scorche | Soap: you might want to make a donation to the profanity jar too =P |
| 01:05:51 | DefineByte | i've read them but they're a bit long to digest |
| 01:06:55 | DefineByte | i'm just following the leader :D |
| 01:07:03 | Llorean | DefineByte: If you don't follow them you'll be asked to leave, and eventually banned. Same goes for the forums, and in both we require the manual being read. |
| 01:07:07 | chrisjs169 | one of the leaders is Llorean |
| 01:07:10 | Llorean | I have no problem with not coddling users who refuse to read the manual. :) |
| 01:07:15 | scorche | DefineByte: ever play lemmings...? |
| 01:07:31 | Llorean | DefineByte: It was a subtle hint as to how we force them to read it: They get no help until they've showed that they have. |
| 01:07:38 | | Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 01:07:41 | DefineByte | yeah, i loved that game. is there a timer on me? ^^ |
| 01:07:43 | | Join Merthsoft [0] (n=Shaun@140.141.22.103) |
| 01:07:45 | * | chrisjs169 notices Llorean isn't on the access list |
| 01:07:51 | Llorean | chrisjs169: Nope. |
| 01:07:54 | Llorean | Good thing too. |
| 01:07:54 | scorche | DefineByte: you miss my point... |
| 01:08:05 | Merthsoft | Llorean: Using sunday's version fixed the database error, btw |
| 01:08:15 | chrisjs169 | Llorean, haha |
| 01:08:41 | Llorean | Merthsoft: Good to hear, it looks like there was a bug added in the ID3 handling, or so I hear. |
| 01:08:41 | DefineByte | i didn't think it was important scorche. |
| 01:08:58 | Merthsoft | Ah, was it fixed do you know? |
| 01:09:03 | DefineByte | i thought we were talking about rbutil anyway. my mistake |
| 01:09:06 | scorche | DefineByte: the point is, lemmings always follow the leader...right off cliffs to their death |
| 01:09:08 | | Quit ompaul ("night night etc") |
| 01:09:18 | DefineByte | no they don't :p |
| 01:09:22 | Llorean | Merthsoft: I believe so. |
| 01:09:48 | DefineByte | just use a blocker or something |
| 01:10:04 | pixelma | Merthsoft: not that I know of |
| 01:10:05 | Llorean | Merthsoft: I may be wrong. |
| 01:11:03 | Merthsoft | ok |
| 01:12:26 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@75-128-122-8.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com) |
| 01:13:40 | | Quit bluebrother ("leaving") |
| 01:13:46 | DefineByte | "DefineByte: the point is, lemmings always follow the leader...right off cliffs to their death"oh, i get it. you're saying llorean is trying to rile me so i get myself banned. heh |
| 01:13:56 | scorche | uh..no |
| 01:14:01 | DefineByte | :p |
| 01:14:12 | chrisjs169 | notice how nobody here is even op'd.. |
| 01:14:42 | DefineByte | if is getting off topic now you guys. tsk |
| 01:15:00 | chrisjs169 | so is your quite |
| 01:15:21 | chrisjs169 | *quote |
| 01:15:30 | scorche | how about lets both just hush and wait for a new topic... |
| 01:15:36 | amiconn | Funny... I can now build voice files for all my targets in less time (for 1 language) that a rockbox build for a single target... |
| 01:15:42 | DefineByte | hey, i didn't say i'm a pillar of virtue |
| 01:15:56 | scorche | DefineByte: hush about the issue |
| 01:15:59 | Llorean | amiconn: I always could on Linux |
| 01:16:07 | Llorean | amiconn: Oh, *all* of them at once. |
| 01:16:08 | Llorean | nevermind |
| 01:16:16 | DefineByte | i'm trying to think of a new topic now |
| 01:16:25 | scorche | then do it silently |
| 01:16:27 | Llorean | I could build five with use of the pool in less time, on a first run, though |
| 01:17:45 | DefineByte | okay, what could be a reason for a plugin to fail, supposing that there are no coding errors in the plugin itself |
| 01:18:00 | DefineByte | to compile/ |
| 01:18:16 | Llorean | DefineByte: If Rockbox compiles fine without the changes, and fails to compile with the changes, there are coding errors. |
| 01:18:35 | DefineByte | rockbox compiles just fine |
| 01:18:46 | DefineByte | it's just the plugin that doesn't work |
| 01:18:49 | | Quit obo ("bye") |
| 01:19:10 | chrisjs169 | DefineByte, what plugin |
| 01:19:41 | DefineByte | basically if i modify the disktidy plugin at all (:p) the plugin compiles fine but won't run and is unusually small |
| 01:20:24 | | Quit atsea-68 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:20:55 | DefineByte | do any other files need to be modified first? |
| 01:21:12 | | Join Febs [0] (n=chatzill@207-172-204-33.c3-0.rdl-ubr4.trpr-rdl.pa.cable.rcn.com) |
| 01:21:36 | | Join BHSPitLappy [0] (n=steve-o@129.120.244.118) |
| 01:22:47 | Llorean | DefineByte: If there's just a name.c file for the plugin, it's rare that you'll need to modify other files unless you're changing the plugin api. |
| 01:23:42 | | Join atsea-68 [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-0708f353f97868eb) |
| 01:23:45 | DefineByte | I'm just trying to modify the disktidy plugin to clean ipod files |
| 01:23:48 | | Quit atsea-68 (SendQ exceeded) |
| 01:24:27 | | Join atsea-68 [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-1d578ed7e3be62c6) |
| 01:24:53 | | Join annulus_ [0] (n=ap@h214n2fls31o286.telia.com) |
| 01:25:37 | Xero | SendQ too low. |
| 01:26:02 | DefineByte | just to try i modified the TIDY_MAC function to delete iPod_Config instead of .DS_Store and it compiles find but when i try to run it it errors |
| 01:26:12 | DefineByte | fine/ |
| 01:26:39 | | Join kugel [0] (i=kugel@e178112038.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 01:26:41 | DefineByte | -it |
| 01:29:28 | Soap | isn't the folder name ipod_control? |
| 01:29:40 | Soap | I don't have either of my iPods in front of me at this time, or I would check. |
| 01:29:41 | * | XavierGr sighs |
| 01:29:56 | DefineByte | yeah it is, i can assure you the code had the right name :D |
| 01:30:00 | XavierGr | another review of rockbox that stresses the uglyness of the defualt gui |
| 01:31:47 | DefineByte | ah the bain of OS. |
| 01:32:44 | DefineByte | bane/ |
| 01:34:34 | DefineByte | well, i'm stating to fall asleep at the wheel here (starting?). it was fun chatting with oyu. night night. |
| 01:34:38 | | Part DefineByte |
| 01:35:23 | Kalthare | Hm. I take it rbutil doesn't support custom builds? |
| 01:36:54 | | Join DarkStylist [0] (n=TheAvata@c213-100-135-215.swipnet.se) |
| 01:37:18 | DarkStylist | hey guys |
| 01:37:40 | iamben | hey dude |
| 01:37:43 | DarkStylist | anything like rockbox for my technaxx musicman easy player? |
| 01:38:23 | DarkStylist | its one of those neat usb mp3 systems with sd cards |
| 01:38:49 | | Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs) |
| 01:38:56 | | Quit _jhMikeS_ (Nick collision from services.) |
| 01:39:00 | | Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) |
| 01:40:18 | | Join austriancoder [0] (n=austrian@rockbox/developer/austriancoder) |
| 01:40:43 | | Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection) |
| 01:41:08 | DarkStylist | and 1 aaa battery |
| 01:41:43 | xDragonforce16x | dont think soo.... |
| 01:42:06 | xDragonforce16x | im just a geust here so dont take my opinion |
| 01:43:23 | Soap | not to be dismissive, DarkStylist, but Rockbox doesn't run on it. This being a Rockbox channel there is little chance of learning about things outside Rockbox here. Your best chance is simply to google the player's name/model and perhaps the word "firmware" to see what pops up. That being said, Rockbox is one of a VERY few MP3 player replacement firmwares. |
| 01:43:45 | BigMac | Ok, I am planning on working on the idea that was being discussed earlier of being able to load playlists from config files or Bagder's ideas, but I would like to get an opinion on what the developers think the best implementation would be |
| 01:44:06 | | Quit kugel ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]") |
| 01:45:16 | chrisjs169 | austriancoder is on :D |
| 01:47:03 | | Join Rob222241 [0] (n=Miranda@pD952B85A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:47:52 | | Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 01:48:07 | DarkStylist | i noticed there are quite a few usbstick players with same firmware |
| 01:48:21 | DarkStylist | always same Gui |
| 01:48:39 | DarkStylist | i just never learned the firmware name |
| 01:48:56 | DarkStylist | and googeling it helps not |
| 01:49:37 | DarkStylist | have any idea of what firmware it is? it always starts with Welcome |
| 01:50:40 | | Quit jhMikeS (Nick collision from services.) |
| 01:50:46 | | Join jhMikeS [0] (n=jethead7@rockbox/developer/jhMikeS) |
| 01:50:54 | BigBambi | DarkStylist: Not here please |
| 01:51:41 | DarkStylist | ok |
| 01:52:39 | * | chrisjs169 wonders how many players start with Welcome |
| 01:52:55 | * | xDragonforce16x has no idea |
| 01:53:41 | xDragonforce16x | almost all of them, the think the player has to be polite to its user? |
| 01:53:47 | xDragonforce16x | lol |
| 01:55:18 | xDragonforce16x | peace out everybody |
| 01:55:28 | DarkStylist | howabout these chinese mp4 players? |
| 01:55:33 | | Join perplexity [0] (i=heh21609@dxb-as74784.alshamil.net.ae) |
| 01:55:37 | | Part xDragonforce16x |
| 01:55:49 | DarkStylist | i got a noname one saying ipod on it from china |
| 01:56:07 | Llorean | DarkStylist: Rockbox only runs on the players explicitly mentioned on the front page of the site. |
| 01:56:27 | DarkStylist | yea but |
| 01:56:50 | DarkStylist | what if my model is based on one off of the site? |
| 01:57:01 | Llorean | ONLY. |
| 01:57:32 | Llorean | If your player has the exact same hardware internally, set up in the exact same way, then in theory it would run. Looking like the same player, though, does not make it the same player. |
| 01:58:22 | iamben | Llorean: yeah but they printed "ipod" on it! |
| 01:59:01 | Llorean | AFAIK, a lot of the knockoffs use the s1mp3 hardware. |
| 01:59:41 | | Quit austriancoder (Remote closed the connection) |
| 02:00 |
| 02:00:21 | | Part Merthsoft ("Leaving") |
| 02:04:07 | DarkStylist | yea s1mp3 os thats it |
| 02:05:09 | | Part pixelma |
| 02:05:53 | | Quit Rob222241 (Connection timed out) |
| 02:06:05 | | Join BrickedE200R [0] (i=82c20d6a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-22bf0c48810be540) |
| 02:06:09 | BrickedE200R | help! |
| 02:06:18 | BrickedE200R | 'i broke my ipod |
| 02:06:22 | DarkStylist | that bad? |
| 02:07:05 | BrickedE200R | i followed the instructions and used e200tool on my nano 2g and now it wont turn on |
| 02:07:47 | | Nick BrickedE200R is now known as JdGordon (i=82c20d6a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-22bf0c48810be540) |
| 02:07:50 | JdGordon | ;P |
| 02:07:57 | JdGordon | linuxstb: you still round? |
| 02:08:19 | * | Llorean wonders if there's a way to trigger manufacturing mode on iPods. |
| 02:08:48 | hcs | the emergency disk mode? |
| 02:08:54 | JdGordon | looks like there is a limit to how much code we can copy onto the snasa with e2t :( |
| 02:09:29 | Llorean | hcs: No, on the e200 there's "manufacturing mode" which is much lower level than that. |
| 02:09:37 | amiconn | hi JdGordon, I have a bug for you (in the settings system) |
| 02:10:22 | amiconn | Cancelling live settings doesn't work: it displays 'Cancelled' but does actually accept the setting. |
| 02:11:24 | JdGordon | can you stick it on flyspray? im at uni and giong to forget about it otherwise.... |
| 02:17:13 | JdGordon | whats the easiest way to add to binary size without adding code? |
| 02:17:19 | JdGordon | will a const array do it? |
| 02:17:36 | | Join kkurbjun [0] (n=kkurbjun@c-24-9-90-142.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 02:17:51 | Llorean | Add to binary size? |
| 02:17:56 | JdGordon | yeah |
| 02:18:21 | JdGordon | trying to figure out the largest binary we can send to the sansa |
| 02:18:52 | amiconn | argh |
| 02:19:01 | amiconn | linuxstb: You broke usb on the player |
| 02:19:11 | amiconn | Looks like the logic is reversed |
| 02:19:53 | amiconn | Ah, yes: http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/firmware/target/sh/archos/player/usb-player.c?r1=14599&r2=14600 |
| 02:21:42 | JdGordon | amiconn: any ideas how to add bin size easily? |
| 02:21:57 | JdGordon | gc is optimizing my unused arrays out |
| 02:22:29 | amiconn | __attribute__((used)) |
| 02:22:31 | amiconn | (iirc) |
| 02:23:44 | JdGordon | nup :( |
| 02:23:59 | Llorean | Why not just use the first element of the array for something? |
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| 02:28:21 | Deibeed | Hey guys? |
| 02:29:49 | Llorean | It's often best just to ask a question, if you have one. |
| 02:30:02 | Deibeed | I was just trying out Rockbox on my Ipod Nano 1st Generation, and I got an error while uploading database. |
| 02:30:18 | Llorean | There is a known problem with creating the database right now. |
| 02:30:25 | Deibeed | It says: Data abort at 000457E4 |
| 02:31:04 | Deibeed | So, I simply can't upload music onto it? |
| 02:31:23 | krazykit | you can, the database just won't work right now. |
| 02:31:49 | Deibeed | So how do I do that? |
| 02:31:55 | krazykit | drag and drop. |
| 02:32:00 | | Part Llorean |
| 02:32:07 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@pD952B094.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:32:19 | krazykit | if you use iTunes to sync normally, however, the original firmware will NOT be able to see the stuff you've simply dragged and dropped on the player |
| 02:32:42 | Kalthare | JdGordon: volatile, maybe? |
| 02:33:00 | JdGordon | changed my tact.. and it seems to be working now |
| 02:33:11 | * | JdGordon giong to break his e200 usb port ... |
| 02:33:18 | Deibeed | Hmm. I don't use the iTunes to sync my ipod. Is there some other way? |
| 02:33:35 | krazykit | uh, how do you normally put music on your ipod? |
| 02:33:51 | Deibeed | Import to Library, then drag into the Ipod itself. |
| 02:34:13 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: hey, yuo round? |
| 02:34:23 | krazykit | which is using itunes to sync the music... |
| 02:34:31 | Deibeed | So, do it again? |
| 02:34:35 | krazykit | no |
| 02:35:14 | Deibeed | So what do I do? |
| 02:35:21 | krazykit | the way you do it, both the apple firmware and rockbox can use the files. drag-and-drop from explorer or finder will allow rockbox to see it but not the original firmware |
| 02:35:27 | | Quit perplexity (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
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| 02:35:44 | krazykit | Deibeed, you could downgrade to a previous build that doesn't display this problem. |
| 02:35:55 | Deibeed | All right. Thanks a lot. |
| 02:36:01 | krazykit | then, you could simply wait til the problem is resolved |
| 02:37:37 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: Hey, yes. I've even been around but I don't talk much when doing complicated work. |
| 02:37:51 | amiconn | JdGordon: I doubt that you will break the port (assuming it's a standard mini-B port) |
| 02:38:28 | amiconn | Back when doing the Ondio port, I plugged/unplugged loadsa times for several weeks |
| 02:38:35 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: how much of the sansa ata driver can be stripped out? we need a working ata driver for the e200r installer, but it seems we are very limited with the aount of code e200tool can send across... |
| 02:38:39 | JdGordon | amiconn: its nto standard... |
| 02:38:54 | | Join skate3214 [0] (n=chatzill@C-59-101-82-50.syd.connect.net.au) |
| 02:39:14 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: does it require any SD support? |
| 02:39:20 | amiconn | JdGordon: I guess e200tool loads the stuff into iram, probably minus some used area |
| 02:39:38 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: no, just need enough to write to the internal disk |
| 02:39:44 | jhMikeS | write only? |
| 02:39:51 | JdGordon | ... and read |
| 02:40:11 | jhMikeS | ok...lemme have a read over |
| 02:41:10 | jhMikeS | you don't need the fancy fast read function so the slow version could be used for one |
| 02:41:19 | amiconn | Any hints how to reproduce the crash in the db init? |
| 02:41:42 | amiconn | I tried both on mini G2 and video (G5.5/80), but got no crash (latest svn) |
| 02:42:12 | | Join AceNik [0] (n=AceNik@117.98.14.30) |
| 02:42:35 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: I suppose I could just pastebin a stripped-down verions. it shouldn't be much trouble. |
| 02:43:10 | AceNik | guys since svn 146XXX i get data abort everytime i go to initialise database on my h10 [20GB] please help |
| 02:43:22 | | Quit hcs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 02:43:24 | JdGordon | dont worry about it now.. just wanted to know if a stripped one could be dnoe |
| 02:43:27 | amiconn | JdGordon: Did you find the upper limit for the transferable size? |
| 02:43:36 | JdGordon | not yet |
| 02:44:03 | amiconn | I wonder what e200tool does... I would guess we'd have at least half the iram available |
| 02:44:08 | amiconn | (that'd be 64KB) |
| 02:44:37 | AceNik | amiconn are the latest builds working perfet on ur h10 |
| 02:44:54 | | Quit skate3214 ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007073113]") |
| 02:45:08 | amiconn | Depends on the definition of "perfect" |
| 02:45:48 | JdGordon | 64K is too large... |
| 02:46:03 | JdGordon | although, i thought 10k was too big before also :p |
| 02:46:15 | | Join hcs [0] (n=agashlin@rockbox/contributor/hcs) |
| 02:47:00 | AceNik | does database initialise & also d songs play instantly or there are hang up sometimes? |
| 02:47:25 | JdGordon | 65535, 65536 doesnt |
| 02:47:35 | JdGordon | so maybe we dont need to be careful with the size |
| 02:48:21 | AceNik | i get data abort everytime i initialise database, & also everytime i start my player with the earlier builds, somewhr cloase to 14577 or so i had my player hang on "loading" |
| 02:48:39 | amiconn | DB init works |
| 02:49:02 | JdGordon | sending a 28118 binary doesnt work... but sending 1100bytes followed by 30k of random data does... |
| 02:49:10 | AceNik | amiconn: then why do i get these data aborts , has the bootloader changed? |
| 02:49:16 | amiconn | Whether it would hang occasionally I don't know. The H10 is not my main target |
| 02:49:30 | amiconn | It didn't hang in a quick check |
| 02:50:02 | AceNik | amiconn: you using a 20 GB right |
| 02:50:09 | amiconn | nope, 6GB |
| 02:50:43 | amiconn | None of my 4 PP targets crashes on db init |
| 02:50:46 | AceNik | amiconn: then how do i confirm with someone's 20GB , there is a problem this is definate, |
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| 02:51:15 | amiconn | I don't want confirmation (there already are multiple reports), I want a way to reproduce... |
| 02:51:48 | AceNik | secondly the usb detection patch was added today, when i connect my usb it shows nothin on the screen of my player , pressing the power button boots into rockbox, disk mode is no where? |
| 02:51:48 | | Quit JdGordon ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 02:52:37 | AceNik | amiconn: confirm, data init for the first time, gives data abort at 045XXX |
| 02:52:53 | amiconn | That doesn't help me |
| 02:52:58 | AceNik | has the h10 bootloader changed |
| 02:53:19 | amiconn | Not that I know of |
| 02:53:48 | AceNik | well, ill just wait then |
| 02:54:08 | amiconn | What svn revision are you running? |
| 02:54:16 | AceNik | how does the usb detection thin work, just plug the usb & let it go to disk mode or any button combos? |
| 02:54:32 | AceNik | 14604-14614 all the same |
| 02:55:02 | amiconn | Yeah, no relevant change concerning this problem |
| 02:55:24 | AceNik | 14577 was better , DB init worked , but at random times, while startin up player & playing a track caused the player to hang at "loading..." |
| 02:55:30 | | Quit Rob2222 (Success) |
| 02:56:00 | amiconn | I wonder what's different here then |
| 02:56:12 | AceNik | no clue |
| 02:56:47 | amiconn | DB init works like a charm (with r14607) on 2nd gen, mini 2nd gen, video 5.5th gen, and iriver H10/6GB |
| 02:57:14 | AceNik | well, im clearly stuck up with something, no clue why? |
| 02:57:15 | amiconn | 3 of those have dircache enabled, one does not (the mini) |
| 02:57:17 | | Part Deibeed |
| 02:57:42 | krazykit | i'm building r14615 now for sansa, i'll see if i get a data abort too |
| 02:58:05 | AceNik | k thanks a lot, ill take a kip & return c ya |
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| 03:00 |
| 03:00:07 | krazykit | no, no problem with db init on the sansa either. |
| 03:00:07 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: quicky strip-down. I didn't pull the SDHC cases but I'm sure those could go too. http://rafb.net/p/37yYmd61.html |
| 03:00:30 | jhMikeS | blah, he disappeared |
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| 04:36:35 | gunner | some1 mind helpin me with a problem on an ipod nano? |
| 04:36:57 | Soap | ask the question, please don't ask to ask. |
| 04:37:24 | Soap | though such shorthand as "some1" is severly frowned upon. |
| 04:37:35 | gunner | well i put rockbox on it and it froze during 1st song playback and the reset wont work... |
| 04:37:37 | Soap | see the channel topic. |
| 04:37:48 | Soap | On the iPods reset always works. |
| 04:38:03 | gunner | sorry i just need to type quick |
| 04:38:44 | gunner | its stuck with back light on and minimal information on the screen |
| 04:39:02 | Soap | I don't mean to be blunt, but reset will always work. Toggle the hold switch to the on (red) and back to the off positions. |
| 04:39:30 | Soap | then Menu + Select, and hold those buttons (without a wiggle in your fingers) for 30 seconds, and it will reset. |
| 04:41:43 | gunner | still nothing and i know its supposed to but it wont |
| 04:42:47 | gunner | well thank you but i have to go now |
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| 05:43:27 | Hellmark | Quick question. I am looking at getting a player that supports Rockbox, and two of the ones I am looking at are the iPod Mini and the 5-6gb iRiver H10. Reason for such, is that the microdrives can be swapped out for compact flash, which would help with battery life. On the Mini, under rockbox, you have to patch it if you run a compact flash card, due to it crashing when trying to put the drive into sleep mode. I am curious if this is an issue on the H1 |
| 05:43:29 | Hellmark | 0 as well |
| 05:47:42 | Llorean | Yes, I'm fairly confident it would be, though I don't believe anyone has tried |
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| 05:51:20 | advcomp2019 | Hellmark, are you looking for a digital audio player that is flash based that can have rockbox on it? |
| 05:52:16 | | Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 05:56:44 | Hellmark | advcomp2019, I mostly want one that I can rebuild if needed. |
| 05:57:03 | Hellmark | thats why I like the mini. pretty much everything is replaceable and easy to get parts for |
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| 05:57:24 | Hellmark | right now i have a Creative Zen NX, screen broke, and I am SOL |
| 05:57:33 | Hellmark | doesn't have to be flash based |
| 05:58:04 | webguest64 | Found a bug in Gigabeat F latest build. when viewing credits the the player shuts down |
| 05:59:06 | Hellmark | also, don't really need any frills, like video and what not. |
| 05:59:56 | Kalthare | Say, uh.. any chance someone could give me an executive overview of how Rockbox determines the audio length of an MP3 file? |
| 06:00 |
| 06:00:20 | krazykit | Hellmark, well, most of the targets support video anyway, but you don't have to use it. |
| 06:00:33 | Hellmark | krazykit, I know |
| 06:00:50 | Hellmark | but if I can forgo that option and save a few bucks, why not |
| 06:00:56 | krazykit | have you considered the sansa at all? i'm not sure how easy it is to get parts, though |
| 06:01:09 | advcomp2019 | look at the e200 is a nice player that rockbox works on |
| 06:01:14 | | Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 06:02:00 | Kalthare | I've got some MP3s that most software, including Rockbox, vastly overestimates the length of. |
| 06:02:14 | Llorean | Kalthare: This usually means bad information in the header |
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| 06:02:37 | Hellmark | krazykit, from what I can tell, no real replacement of parts. |
| 06:03:10 | krazykit | i mean, i'm sure you can get refurbs and broken ones for dirt cheap on ebay |
| 06:03:14 | Kalthare | Llorean: But isn't an MP3 header, like, two bytes long? I don't think there's much in that that could be gotten wrong without breaking playback... |
| 06:03:28 | advcomp2019 | yea krazykit |
| 06:04:03 | webguest64 | Llorean. when viewing credits in my Gigabeat F.. the player shuts down ..latest build |
| 06:05:53 | Llorean | Kalthare: For VBR files, you need another header to be able to get right length. For CBR if you simply know the bitrate and file length, you know. |
| 06:06:16 | krazykit | webguest64, when does it shut down? i'm displaying the credits just fine here. also, what revision, specifically? |
| 06:06:52 | Kalthare | Llorean: Ah, okay, that's probably exactly it, then. Thank you. ...Know of any programs that fix broken VBR headers? |
| 06:07:28 | Llorean | Kalthare: Try the "vbrfix" plugin in Rockbox |
| 06:07:52 | Kalthare | Llorean: Thanks, I'll try that :) |
| 06:08:09 | Hellmark | krazykit, from what I've seen of disassembly photos, most stuff seems to be soldered on |
| 06:09:08 | | Quit webguest64 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 06:09:56 | advcomp2019 | Hellmark, here is a site that will fix it for you −−> http://www.cherryfusion.com/ |
| 06:10:06 | advcomp2019 | for* |
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| 06:10:47 | advcomp2019 | this monitor is making me see things |
| 06:11:09 | krazykit | webguest64, what revision are you using? i can run the credits without error on my gigabeat. |
| 06:11:22 | Hellmark | advcomp2019, prefer fixing things myself if I can |
| 06:11:32 | webguest64 | sept 04 /07 build gives the credits shutdown issue to gigabeat F |
| 06:12:10 | krazykit | webguest64, look in system -> rockbox info and tell us the r number |
| 06:13:03 | advcomp2019 | ok Hellmark |
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| 06:14:59 | webguest64 | ok now its not doing it..... |
| 06:15:55 | webguest64 | r14602-070904 |
| 06:16:36 | krazykit | that's not the latest, you're 14 revisions behind ;-) |
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| 06:16:39 | Kalthare | Llorean: That fixed it perfectly. Thank you again! |
| 06:17:11 | webguest64 | have to push power button lightly though to get back to menu |
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| 06:18:48 | webguest64 | how can that be if I just download latest build this morning\ |
| 06:19:11 | Llorean | webguest64: Because there are constant updates? |
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| 07:41:59 | AceNik | guys bug remains still on the h10[20GB] data abort at 0045XXX after evert data init, this can be observed after svn revision no.14577 , thats the last one i was using, after which i switched to 14614 |
| 07:43:49 | ptw419 | anyone have any tips on how to get svn merge to work w/ the gigabeat-s branch? |
| 07:44:22 | Llorean | AceNik: Yes, you'll see there haven't been any commits relating to metadata since the bug was identified... |
| 07:44:41 | amiconn | The bug isn't identified yet |
| 07:45:01 | | Quit BHSPitLappy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 07:45:04 | Llorean | amiconn: I thought it was identified... someone said something about and ID3 change of some sort causing it? |
| 07:45:08 | AceNik | llorean:i guess would the id3.c help in anyway, cause i suspect that file only has changed since then ? |
| 07:45:09 | amiconn | If someone could tell me how to reproduce... it doesn't happen on any of my arm based targets |
| 07:45:13 | ptw419 | so far i have : svn merge http://svn.rockbox.org/rockbox/trunk/ http://svn.rockbox.org/rockbo |
| 07:45:13 | ptw419 | x/branches/gigabeat-s/ |
| 07:45:20 | AceNik | ya thats what made me suspect it |
| 07:45:22 | AceNik | also |
| 07:45:39 | Llorean | amiconn: For most people, it's just "initialize the database and it happens after anywhere from <50 to >1000 songs" |
| 07:45:41 | AceNik | amiconn: somehow please get it to be tried on a 20GB |
| 07:45:48 | Llorean | AceNik: Please don't pester. |
| 07:46:00 | AceNik | ok |
| 07:46:34 | amiconn | AceNik: It is reported on ipod video as well. And I tried on iPod video G5.5/80, Mini G2, H10 6GB and ipod 2nd gen. DB init works on all 4 without crash |
| 07:46:38 | Llorean | amiconn: The data abort location seems to be fairly consistent too. |
| 07:46:49 | Llorean | It's also reported on the Sansa |
| 07:47:35 | | Join tehxed [0] (i=bleh@CPE0015e96bee93-CM0012254225c8.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 07:47:36 | amiconn | I suspect that it might be related to what tagging format(s) are used on the device. All my MP3s are now id3v2 *only*... |
| 07:47:57 | tehxed | Is there any way to turn off ID3 tags? |
| 07:48:03 | tehxed | And just get the file name.mp3 to appear? |
| 07:48:07 | AceNik | amiconn: i have my mp3's tagged with both in winamp |
| 07:48:16 | Kalthare | I'm trying mine. I've got a horrible motley collection of file formats. |
| 07:48:29 | amiconn | tehxed: You cannot "turn off" tags as they are in your files |
| 07:48:50 | Hellmark | I think he wants to not have them be displayed |
| 07:48:52 | tehxed | amiconn: When I say "turn off" I mean stop them from being displayed |
| 07:48:57 | tehxed | Yeah, Hellmark got the idea |
| 07:49:02 | krazykit | AceNik, i also can't get the crash on the sansa |
| 07:49:08 | amiconn | You could either remove all tags from your files if you don't want them at all, or you can make your own wps that ignores tags |
| 07:49:29 | tehxed | amiconn: I've removed the tags, I'm not sure how to go about making my own wps |
| 07:49:38 | tehxed | Is there any tutorial anywhere that could help me out with that? |
| 07:50:58 | amiconn | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SimpleGuideToWPSMaking |
| 07:51:34 | tehxed | Thank you |
| 07:52:44 | amiconn | Llorean: Do *you* get that crash? |
| 07:53:27 | Kalthare | This is in initializing the tag database, yes? |
| 07:53:41 | Llorean | amiconn: The only target I have available right now is my H120. |
| 07:53:52 | amiconn | AH, bummer |
| 07:54:28 | * | amiconn tries on archos, as the SH1 is also algnment sensitive |
| 07:55:34 | amiconn | It would be helpful to know the exact address of the crash and then have the build dir of that build available |
| 07:55:47 | amiconn | (for checking the .map and disassembling the respective .o) |
| 07:55:58 | Kalthare | Well, I didn't get a crash on my 5.5G/30GB, and I've got a lot of different types of files. |
| 07:56:13 | | Join LinusN [0] (i=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN) |
| 07:56:42 | AceNik | address keeps varying in the range 0045XXX |
| 07:57:10 | AceNik | identify nickel6 |
| 07:57:12 | Llorean | AceNik: He asked for an exact one. |
| 07:57:24 | AceNik | 0045085 |
| 07:57:29 | amiconn | Just the address isn't very helpful, even if it's exact |
| 07:58:29 | amiconn | 0x45xxx is most probably somewhere in tagcache.o, that's all I can tell without further information |
| 08:00 |
| 08:00:37 | amiconn | No crash on archos either |
| 08:01:45 | | Part rvvs89 ("Cycling channel") |
| 08:01:50 | | Join perplexity [0] (i=heh4714@dxb-as74784.alshamil.net.ae) |
| 08:02:17 | Llorean | amiconn: Do your tags have comments? The most likely culprit would at least *seem* to be http://svn.rockbox.org/viewvc.cgi/trunk/firmware/id3.c?r1=14593&r2=14594 |
| 08:02:41 | | Join ddalton [0] (n=daniel@203-214-50-20.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 08:02:43 | amiconn | *very* few files have comments iirc |
| 08:03:00 | ddalton | who is james83? the svn user name. |
| 08:03:05 | rocko | yo |
| 08:03:07 | rocko | I gotta say |
| 08:03:16 | rocko | rockbox has saved my |
| 08:03:19 | rocko | ipod so many times |
| 08:03:35 | Hellmark | Taking battery life issues on some of the players (like the ipod) into account, what players do you prefer? |
| 08:05:14 | Jangari | re: that H10 bug during tag init, it happened to my ipod 5g with yesterday's release as well |
| 08:05:47 | amiconn | Llorean: Eurgh. Many thanks for pointing me there again. Yesterday I looked at that myself, but couldn't see the problem, although it's soo obvious.... |
| 08:05:50 | Jangari | same crash, data abort 045XXX |
| 08:05:58 | Jangari | i went back and found a previous build, probably about a week ago, and it's fine now |
| 08:06:17 | | Part toffe82_ |
| 08:06:18 | LinusN | ddalton: James Espinoza |
| 08:06:24 | amiconn | short* s = (short*) string; <== ouchouchouch on alignment sensitive targets! |
| 08:07:35 | Kalthare | Huh. What would that do? |
| 08:07:46 | amiconn | It works if the COMM tag itself is at an even address in memory, and crashes if not |
| 08:08:16 | Kalthare | Ohh. Ouch. |
| 08:09:10 | Jangari | is that why? |
| 08:09:17 | Jangari | fucken comments tag |
| 08:09:26 | amiconn | Well, both arm and SH1 don't like unaligned pointers. But a char* (or void* in that case) isn't necessary aligned |
| 08:09:51 | Jangari | it's probably worth using anapod or something to clear the comments box from every tag |
| 08:10:04 | LinusN | better fix the code imho |
| 08:12:18 | Jangari | sure |
| 08:12:18 | amiconn | Aha, and it can only happen if there are COMM tags in UTF-16. That's why I didn't get any crashes |
| 08:12:18 | amiconn | My tags are all either iso8859-1 or utf-8 |
| 08:12:18 | Jangari | oh well, my week-old build seems fine |
| 08:12:18 | | Part puzzlet |
| 08:13:10 | amiconn | The fix should be fairly simple. The cast to short* isn't necessary as the important point here is just to check pairs of bytes. |
| 08:13:22 | | Part AceNik |
| 08:13:54 | | Join CaptainSquid [0] (n=Miranda@proxy15.netz.sbs.de) |
| 08:15:35 | | Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) |
| 08:16:09 | amiconn | unfortunately something like while (*s++ || *s++) { } isn't well defined. It needs a few more lines |
| 08:16:17 | ddalton | LinusN: are you around? |
| 08:16:52 | LinusN | yes |
| 08:17:11 | ddalton | Do you think p7682 should be committed? |
| 08:19:38 | | Join norbusan [0] (n=norbusan@chello213047086216.5.14.tuwien.teleweb.at) |
| 08:19:48 | LinusN | ddalton: i think so, but i'd like to investigate the need for the longer syncsplash delay |
| 08:19:48 | | Part norbusan |
| 08:20:11 | ddalton | LinusN: do you have an ipod? |
| 08:20:15 | LinusN | yes |
| 08:20:25 | ddalton | do you have time to change it and test? |
| 08:20:41 | ddalton | because I did this for a friend and I don't have an ipod myself. |
| 08:20:44 | LinusN | i'll have a look ati it |
| 08:20:50 | ddalton | or a player with a wake up rtc |
| 08:21:48 | ddalton | also can you make sure the voice says the right infomation? so when the alarm is set? It is just a bit hard for me because I can't read the screen. But I don't know why it wouldn't |
| 08:23:23 | amiconn | Anyone experiencing the crash on db init who wants to test? Or should I commit right away? |
| 08:25:15 | LinusN | amiconn: commit it |
| 08:25:22 | Llorean | amiconn: If you're reasonably sure, I'd say go ahead and commit. We seem to be getting at least one bug report every 2 hours, if not shorter periods, from people not searching first. |
| 08:26:21 | jhMikeS | what are the details about it and how to make it happen? |
| 08:27:00 | ddalton | LinusN: If I create patches that call the talk functions will this be ok when the proper fix comes in? |
| 08:27:12 | LinusN | any sansa owner looking into FS #7692? |
| 08:27:12 | ddalton | so should I be creating patches now that voice the plugins? |
| 08:27:37 | * | jhMikeS will peek over at FS #7692 |
| 08:27:42 | LinusN | ddalton: i think we should find a solution to the voice file problem first |
| 08:27:53 | amiconn | jhMikeS: I'm pretty sure I identified the problem. You need (1) an alignment sensitive target (2) mp3 file(s) with comment tags using UTF-16 |
| 08:27:55 | Llorean | LinusN: I don't think any of the Rockbox Sansa owners here actually experience the garble issue. |
| 08:28:09 | amiconn | LinusN: Committed. |
| 08:28:14 | LinusN | amiconn: goodie |
| 08:28:19 | ddalton | LinusN: but if I use the functions provide in plugin.h won't it all just work once we modify those functions? |
| 08:28:19 | jhMikeS | amiconn: ah, all my files are UTF-8 |
| 08:28:40 | amiconn | Mine are either iso8859-1 or utf-8, hence I wasn't able to reproduce |
| 08:29:00 | LinusN | ddalton: well, yes, if you don't add plugin specific phrases to english.lang |
| 08:29:18 | | Join ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^ [0] (i=UPP@ool-182ceb90.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 08:29:26 | | Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection) |
| 08:29:35 | ddalton | LinusN: so would every plugin file have to be modified or just pluigin.h or .c or talk.c or .h? |
| 08:29:39 | GodEater_ | morning everyone |
| 08:30:35 | ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^ | "unsupported builds" would mean mp3 players that are currently not done yet, right? |
| 08:30:59 | GodEater_ | ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^: no - it would mean builds of rockbox not using the core code in svn for players which ARE done |
| 08:31:00 | Llorean | ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^: No, it means "compiles of Rockbox made by other people" |
| 08:31:11 | | Quit eigma () |
| 08:31:17 | ddalton | LinusN: if I added strings to english.lang could these be copied fairly easily when we figure out the new way? |
| 08:31:34 | jhMikeS | I guess that supercedes FS #7654 |
| 08:31:36 | | Quit ptw419 () |
| 08:31:49 | ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^ | ahh, i see thanks; i am just making sure i dont break a rule when asking stuff xD |
| 08:32:19 | ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^ | will there be more builds for other mp3 players in the future? |
| 08:32:48 | Jangari | what do you have, ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^? |
| 08:33:13 | GodEater_ | ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^: only if someone that owns that player decides to port rockbox for it |
| 08:33:16 | | Quit CaptainSquid (Remote closed the connection) |
| 08:33:17 | * | jhMikeS will test #7692 and see if it's ok on the older model |
| 08:33:22 | Llorean | ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^: No way to predict that. New ports happen when someone who owns the player (or a group of someones) puts in a lot of time and work |
| 08:33:25 | ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^ | samsung YP-K3, i love it; but wish it did a few other things... |
| 08:33:38 | ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^ | ahh, i see |
| 08:33:46 | | Quit BigBambi ("Leaving") |
| 08:34:11 | | Join ptw419 [0] (i=ptw419@66-90-157-228.dyn.grandenetworks.net) |
| 08:34:59 | ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^ | okay then, is porting it to it difficult? Well i would think it would have to be if it may take a group of people to do, but still.. |
| 08:35:12 | ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^ | you would need to own the player to port it, so what would i need to do to do so |
| 08:35:47 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: if you have some time could you see how small you can strip the ata driver down to please? I was hoping it wouldnt be needed, but my playing this morninng seems to think it might be |
| 08:36:01 | jhMikeS | amiconn: Something interesting for cache coherency between cores seems to be making sure unshared but cacheable data doesn't share the same 16-byte memory segment. |
| 08:36:30 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: I posted a quick strip down but you had disappeared by then. :) |
| 08:36:32 | ddalton | LinusN: have you had a chance to test that patch? |
| 08:36:44 | JdGordon | oh ok, ill go over the logs then |
| 08:36:57 | jhMikeS | nopaste stays 24-hrs? |
| 08:37:01 | Llorean | ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^: There's some information linked to in the New Ports forum stickies |
| 08:37:02 | LinusN | ddalton: i'm busy as always, please give me some time |
| 08:37:11 | ddalton | ok then |
| 08:37:14 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: well.. its only been about 5.. so we shuold be safe :p |
| 08:37:22 | ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^ | (Llorean): alright then, thanks will browse the forums then |
| 08:37:36 | | Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@84-255-206-8.static.dsl.t-2.net) |
| 08:38:34 | | Quit Llorean (Remote closed the connection) |
| 08:38:50 | | Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 08:39:52 | | Quit ddalton ("leaving") |
| 08:40:17 | * | jhMikeS 's screen looks good with FS #7692 running |
| 08:40:50 | LinusN | jhMikeS: feel free to commit if you think the code looks ok |
| 08:41:08 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: thanks, found the paste :) |
| 08:41:12 | JdGordon | hopefully its small enough :p |
| 08:41:32 | jhMikeS | LinusN: I'll do that. I think it's about as simple and perfect a fix as could be asked for. |
| 08:41:42 | LinusN | goodie |
| 08:42:30 | | Join qweru [0] (n=kvirc@bb-87-80-66-156.ukonline.co.uk) |
| 08:42:42 | | Join B4gder [0] (n=daniel@static-213-115-255-230.sme.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 08:42:54 | * | jhMikeS double checks to make sure there's no mistake and is running an actual patched build |
| 08:44:52 | | Join linuxstb_ [0] (i=5343d4aa@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 08:44:54 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: have you still got a copy of the .c? rafb seems to have died |
| 08:45:16 | linuxstb_ | amiconn: Sorry about Player USB typo - thanks for fixing. |
| 08:45:23 | amiconn | Bah, just after commit I spot that this stuff can be written more efficient... |
| 08:45:42 | | Quit Llorean (Remote closed the connection) |
| 08:45:59 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: sure do |
| 08:46:43 | amiconn | jhMikeS: That makes very much sense... |
| 08:47:02 | * | linuxstb_ wonders about austriancoder's commit - it looks like it would break usb detection when HAVE_USBSTACK is defined... |
| 08:47:17 | | Join CaptainSquid [0] (n=Miranda@proxy15.netz.sbs.de) |
| 08:47:26 | amiconn | ...otehrwise core B will overwrite parts of core A's data if it decides to flush the cacheline |
| 08:48:31 | jhMikeS | amiconn: Yes, that is what's going on |
| 08:48:54 | | Quit qwm ("Reconnecting") |
| 08:48:58 | jhMikeS | I set some things up like that and I get no problems |
| 08:48:59 | | Join qwm [0] (i=qwm@h38n2fls32o1010.telia.com) |
| 08:49:08 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: http://www.pastebin.ca/681884 |
| 08:49:52 | | Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 08:50:06 | jhMikeS | It's probably not as reduced as it could be. I think I forgot to change some currcard-> to card_info. |
| 08:50:28 | | Part Llorean |
| 08:51:14 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 08:52:30 | linuxstb_ | JdGordon: I read your comment about there being maximum size of the binary e200tool can upload - how did you determine that that was the problem, and not something else? Does e200tool give an error message? |
| 08:55:19 | jhMikeS | amiconn: having stacks that are in cached memory strategically aligned seem to stop problems. I also made the maintenence functions as calls, put them in IRAM, and make sure instruction prefect doesn't prefetches into core code. |
| 08:55:43 | jhMikeS | *prefetch doesn't prefetch |
| 08:56:12 | * | jhMikeS whatever :P I think the point will be gotten |
| 08:56:49 | | Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 08:57:51 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: we have no need for threading when injecting the code right? |
| 08:59:05 | amiconn | The first version of my fix was really silly compared to the new one |
| 08:59:12 | * | amiconn points to the delta table :) |
| 08:59:51 | | Join Zagor [0] (n=bjorn@rockbox/developer/Zagor) |
| 09:00 |
| 09:00:35 | linuxstb_ | amiconn: Did you ever compare LCD speeds on the mini with the framebuffer in and out of IRAM? bluebrother has mentioned that the USB stack doesn't compile for his mini due to a shortage of IRAM, so I was wondering if removing the framebuffer would be an option? |
| 09:01:34 | amiconn | Using the extra iram on PP5021+ would really be better |
| 09:01:37 | jhMikeS | if I can get this dual-core stuff done, the whole cop stack will be history |
| 09:02:11 | linuxstb_ | amiconn: That still leaves the 1st gen mini and (I assume) 4G greyscale with a shortage though. |
| 09:03:51 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: yeah, no need for threading |
| 09:04:19 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: good to hear since I removed all that too |
| 09:04:29 | JdGordon | linuxstb_: just an uneducated guess because it stops flashing the light once the bin get "large" |
| 09:04:40 | tehxed | How do I change the font color!? |
| 09:04:54 | JdGordon | although, i tested just copying random data across after the smaller bin and that worked up to 64K.. so i dunno |
| 09:05:17 | | Quit Jangari () |
| 09:05:39 | linuxstb_ | JdGordon: Have you just tried appending random data (e.g. dd if=/dev/random count=100 >> bootloader.bin) to a known working binary? |
| 09:06:09 | B4gder | JdGordon: did you read the e200tool source code and checked that it just isn't a limit in the code? |
| 09:06:31 | * | amiconn was just about to say something similar |
| 09:06:34 | JdGordon | no, I tried increasing the amount of the buffer that gets sent (its read into a 128k buffer, so random garbage at the end of the file) |
| 09:06:50 | JdGordon | I didnt see anything in the e200tool code about that.. but yeah, i might have missed it |
| 09:07:25 | linuxstb_ | B4gder: Can you ask MrH where in RAM e200tool is copying arm_code.c to? IIUC, arm_code.c relocates itself to 0x40004000, but that's all I can tell from the source... |
| 09:08:32 | * | jhMikeS wonders about the who gets the credit for FS #7692 :\ 1/2 the lines are from one person, 1/2 from another |
| 09:08:41 | jhMikeS | both? |
| 09:08:42 | B4gder | it relocates itself? |
| 09:08:57 | linuxstb_ | From what I can tell, there shouldn't be a limit to the size - e200tool first sends the length as a 32-bit int, then transfers the data in 64byte chunks. |
| 09:09:21 | linuxstb_ | B4gder: Yes, if I understand the startup asm code in arm_code.c correctly. |
| 09:09:46 | linuxstb_ | (I could be wrong...) |
| 09:11:38 | B4gder | the arm_code is linked to address 40004000 according to the header comment |
| 09:11:57 | B4gder | it gives me the feeling that is where it is copied to |
| 09:12:03 | JdGordon | ... let me explain why I tihnk the filesize has something to do with it... the first thing the code does is flash the light a fe times, then calls ata_init(), then should flash forever (at a different speed so its easy to tell the difference).... if the ata_init call is commented out the binary is ~1100 and the 2 flashing speeds are very visiable... with it uncommented i get no flashing at all.... |
| 09:12:13 | petur | the buffer of usb is in iram |
| 09:12:17 | JdGordon | uncommented makes the bin 22k or so |
| 09:12:34 | B4gder | right, 40004000 is IRAM |
| 09:12:51 | linuxstb_ | B4gder: Can you explain what the code commented as "Make sure we run at the right address" at the start of arm_code.c is doing? IIUC, that's relocating the code to 0x40004000 |
| 09:13:18 | jhMikeS | ok, both get the credit then |
| 09:13:22 | JdGordon | isnt iram 40000000? |
| 09:13:28 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@pD952BAD3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:13:32 | B4gder | JdGordon: yes, so 40004000 is iram too... |
| 09:13:33 | linuxstb_ | It starts at 0x40000000... |
| 09:13:48 | JdGordon | ah, i thought you were saying the start was 40004000... |
| 09:13:56 | B4gder | linuxstb_: I'll ask him if he knows |
| 09:13:58 | * | JdGordon sshh.... |
| 09:14:24 | linuxstb_ | B4gder: Thanks. |
| 09:14:35 | | Join FOAD_ [0] (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) |
| 09:15:59 | amiconn | JdGordon: It could also be the ata init hanging |
| 09:16:23 | | Quit ^pSiOnIc_BeInG^ (".•«UPP»•.") |
| 09:16:53 | amiconn | Wouldn't surprise me, as most probably some hardware isn't initialised in manufacturer mode that is initialised by the sandisk loader in normal mode |
| 09:17:13 | B4gder | yeah, we should expect different inits to be required |
| 09:17:45 | B4gder | disassembling the BL could offer some interesting ones ;-) |
| 09:17:52 | amiconn | Hence my question regarding bidirectional communication yetserday |
| 09:18:12 | amiconn | This way we can get register dumps from manufacturer mode |
| 09:18:21 | B4gder | indeed |
| 09:18:32 | linuxstb_ | That should be easy enough to add to MrH's original arm_code.c |
| 09:18:43 | B4gder | the i2cdump command should be a good inspiration for such tweaks |
| 09:18:47 | linuxstb_ | i.e. just implement extra commands... |
| 09:18:49 | amiconn | Well, we could also blink them out via the wheel led |
| 09:19:06 | B4gder | the i2cdump command already does read out 8K of data from target |
| 09:19:09 | B4gder | to a local file |
| 09:19:13 | amiconn | But that'd be much slower and error prone |
| 09:21:54 | JdGordon | amiconn: I dont think so, because i dont get the flashing before ata_init... |
| 09:22:06 | JdGordon | thats why i did 2 speeds, so i can see where its at |
| 09:22:49 | * | JdGordon will be in and out for the next few hours |
| 09:23:00 | | Quit Weiss (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:24:00 | | Quit akaias (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:24:02 | jhMikeS | blinking the wheel light is quite useful indeed for debugging imho when lcd isn't available. |
| 09:26:51 | amiconn | jhMikeS: In case you ever need to read bytes that way, here's the method I used on archos for debugging the self extractor: |
| 09:27:26 | jhMikeS | Use it with a photo diode and a latch? :) |
| 09:27:56 | amiconn | bit == 0 -> short blink, bit == 1 -> long blink. Short pauses between bits, long pause between nibbles, and double long pause between bytes |
| 09:28:23 | amiconn | A morse-alike code. |
| 09:28:40 | | Join przemhb [0] (i=5035dcaa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-f95486a1a6b45e9f) |
| 09:28:49 | | Quit przemhb (Client Quit) |
| 09:28:55 | * | jhMikeS was considering making the wheel light an optical s/pdif output :P |
| 09:29:33 | | Join przemhb [0] (i=5035dcaa@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-89f0999c4e71edf0) |
| 09:30:26 | LinusN | hmmm, i need to find a way to wait until all queued voice clips have been played |
| 09:31:25 | | Quit FOAD (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:31:25 | | Nick FOAD_ is now known as FOAD (n=dok@dinah.blub.net) |
| 09:31:37 | przemhb | Hi |
| 09:31:50 | LinusN | the problem is that is_voice_queued() returns false as soon as the last clip is scheduled for playback |
| 09:32:44 | LinusN | i'm trying to make gui_syncsplach() not return until the voice is finished |
| 09:33:00 | przemhb | I would like to tell you that I have added a new codepage (WIN1250 - "Central European") - take a look FS #7712. |
| 09:34:26 | przemhb | Could someone tell me is it possible to implement convlover in rockbox? It would be very nice to have a possibility to convolve impulse response to flatten frequency response of headphones used or add some room acoustics. |
| 09:34:40 | B4gder | and I would like to tell you that we get notified by mail of all new tracker entries... :-) |
| 09:35:00 | | Quit davina (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 09:35:14 | jhMikeS | LinusN: I suppose wait on both the queue and playback stopped conditions would do |
| 09:35:27 | przemhb | Badger: Excuse my mistake - I am first time Rockbox developer. |
| 09:35:36 | B4gder | :-) no worries at all |
| 09:35:40 | LinusN | jhMikeS: but what if music is playing? |
| 09:35:42 | JdGordon | amiconn: i was hoping to be able to use the lcd backlight also, one light for 0 and one for 1 :) but didnt have luck there either |
| 09:36:34 | jhMikeS | LinusN: voice_is_playing shouldn't be false again until just before the thread goes back to wait |
| 09:36:45 | LinusN | jhMikeS: ah, thanks |
| 09:38:04 | LinusN | is_voice_speaking() is broken according to the comments in playback.c :-( |
| 09:39:57 | | Join davina [0] (n=davina@cpc1-sout6-0-0-cust616.sotn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 09:40:51 | | Quit linuxstb_ ("CGI:IRC") |
| 09:40:59 | jhMikeS | is_voice_speaking()? seems like a new addition. |
| 09:41:12 | LinusN | it's called by voice_wait() |
| 09:42:16 | LinusN | ...and that function is only present on swcodec platforms... :-( |
| 09:42:17 | jhMikeS | yeah, that's a new one. I would think { is_voice_queue() && voice_is_playing } would be more appropriate a test. |
| 09:42:43 | LinusN | yes, i wonder why the music playback would be involved at all... |
| 09:43:19 | LinusN | hmmm, i wonder what would happen if the music was paused |
| 09:43:26 | jhMikeS | I suppose do up an equivalent for hwcodec ? |
| 09:43:38 | LinusN | i guess it would freeze |
| 09:43:50 | B4gder | linuxstb: "It is right there.at 0x40004000" |
| 09:43:52 | jhMikeS | yeah, I think it will |
| 09:44:12 | B4gder | The reason for the relocation code is for the pre-boot usb mode |
| 09:44:28 | grndslm | what's the status of rockbox on the sansa e200 players?? ... in terms of sound quality? |
| 09:44:36 | grndslm | is it equal to original firmware yet? |
| 09:44:49 | B4gder | grndslm: it sounds great |
| 09:44:51 | jhMikeS | ... && !paused? |
| 09:44:58 | linuxstb | B4gder: I don't understand that relocation code then... |
| 09:45:21 | grndslm | B4gder: so, it sounds as good as original firmware?? .. or better? |
| 09:45:26 | B4gder | linuxstb: it is there to make sure the code is at 40004000 |
| 09:45:43 | B4gder | grndslm: yes, although I can't remember the OF anymore... :-) |
| 09:45:52 | linuxstb | B4gder: But MrH said the code is copied to 0x40004000 ? |
| 09:45:56 | jhMikeS | grndslm: It's quite high on my sound quality list compared to many others |
| 09:46:02 | B4gder | linuxstb: yes, if it isn't there already |
| 09:46:11 | B4gder | it is there already in the manufacture mode |
| 09:46:14 | grndslm | B4gder: when i tried it a few months with rockbox, it seemed to be a bit scratchy or staticy at some points |
| 09:46:16 | B4gder | but not in pre-boot mode |
| 09:46:36 | B4gder | "So I just want to support both modes with the same code." |
| 09:46:39 | jhMikeS | grndslm: I think rockbox tops it. Our codecs seem to be higher quality. |
| 09:47:17 | linuxstb | B4gder: Ah, so in pre-boot mode it's transferred to ???, and in manufacture mode, it's transferred to 0x40004000 ? |
| 09:47:19 | grndslm | jhMikeS: interesting, it must have improved a good bit, i'll have to check it out again... as soon as i can find my charger ;-) |
| 09:47:47 | B4gder | linuxstb: correctly, in pre-boot it gets transfered to 0x40000000 |
| 09:47:55 | jhMikeS | scratchy shouldn't be a problem. that was addressed as well as all the other earlier problems |
| 09:48:06 | B4gder | "In manufacturing mode the i2c contents are at 0x4000000 so the load address is higher." |
| 09:48:22 | linuxstb | B4gder: Thanks. That's clear now, and it could also explain JdGordon's problems... |
| 09:48:42 | jhMikeS | grndslm: when did you last try rockbox on e200? |
| 09:48:50 | GodEater_ | linuxstb: it does ? |
| 09:48:52 | linuxstb | JdGordon: You need to make those two changes (crt0-pp-bl.S and boot.lds) that I originally suggested. |
| 09:49:12 | grndslm | jhMikeS: prolly around 5~6 mo ago |
| 09:49:45 | jhMikeS | grndslm: yeah, time to try again I'd say |
| 09:51:28 | JdGordon | linuxstb: ok, ill give then a go soonish... |
| 09:51:41 | JdGordon | good thing i did svn diff > changes before reverting them :) |
| 09:54:30 | * | jhMikeS goes to commit FS #7692 |
| 09:54:41 | | Part przemhb |
| 09:59:20 | linuxstb | GodEater_: The code currently relocates itself from 0x40004000 (the load address) to 0x40000000 (where it is linked to run from). IIUC, that could cause problems if the size is > 0x4000 bytes (16KB), as the code appears to run on both cores - it's before the COP is halted. |
| 09:59:26 | | Join pixelma [0] (i=pixelma@rockbox/staff/pixelma) |
| 10:00 |
| 10:00:07 | * | jhMikeS wonders what's up with the yellow coming out in rec_format_afmt (haven't seen the build table in a bit) |
| 10:00:52 | * | linuxstb wonders why both MrH's arm_code.c and Rockbox's crt0-pp-bl.S both do the relocation before halting the COP. |
| 10:01:35 | B4gder | sounds like an odd choice |
| 10:01:44 | | Join class37 [0] (n=gettin_i@ip68-228-207-177.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 10:02:42 | class37 | having trouble when i put my ipod 30 gig vidoe on coffee mug fm transmitter... goes into usb mode |
| 10:02:50 | class37 | have most current build installed |
| 10:03:01 | GodEater_ | would someone mind telling me what that filename translates to in english ? Obviously I get the "pp" is portalplayer - but I always wondered about the rest of it |
| 10:03:28 | jhMikeS | does anyone recall when those warnings started? |
| 10:03:34 | linuxstb | I'm not sure what crt0 actually means - it's the filename always used for the initial startup code. "bl" is bootloader. |
| 10:03:47 | B4gder | jhMikeS: a gcc 4.2 update |
| 10:03:58 | GodEater_ | I guessed the bl was bootloader too - but wasn't sure |
| 10:04:04 | GodEater_ | I'd love to know where crt0 comes from |
| 10:04:16 | linuxstb | "C runtime" according to wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crt0 |
| 10:04:23 | GodEater_ | ah |
| 10:04:29 | linuxstb | And I guess the zero is because it's the very first code to run |
| 10:05:57 | GodEater_ | I imagine you're right |
| 10:08:12 | jhMikeS | hmmm...what a useless warning for something that uses documented compiler bahavior to default-fill an array and then override them with specified inits. :\ |
| 10:08:45 | B4gder | jhMikeS: yes, they do seem... pointless |
| 10:09:00 | B4gder | obo mentioned a flag that will silence (most of) them |
| 10:09:58 | | Quit tehxed () |
| 10:11:09 | jhMikeS | some of those tables to convert types have gaps in places and they change size with every codec added. the setup now avoids the need to edit them at all. I'd hate to lose the convenience of that and worry about the bugs that will crop up if the method can't be used. |
| 10:15:48 | B4gder | we'll see more servers going 4.2, so we need to deal with it |
| 10:16:39 | | Join obo [0] (n=obo@rockbox/developer/obo) |
| 10:17:23 | jhMikeS | I've looked before about suppressing specific useless warnings in gcc and came up empty handed. |
| 10:18:28 | B4gder | I don't share that experience. it really depends on what warnings |
| 10:18:46 | B4gder | there's no generic disable option |
| 10:18:48 | jhMikeS | One that bugs me (x is possibly used uninitialized) : { int x; if (cond) { x = something; } ....... if (cond) { something_else = x; } |
| 10:19:25 | JdGordon | thats a valid warning though... |
| 10:19:34 | jhMikeS | not in that case |
| 10:19:39 | JdGordon | oh, your saying its the same cond? |
| 10:19:40 | B4gder | not if 'cond' remains the same |
| 10:19:42 | jhMikeS | yes |
| 10:19:52 | JdGordon | ah well... then you might have a point |
| 10:19:57 | jhMikeS | so I'm forced to initialize x for no reason |
| 10:20:23 | B4gder | does using -O2 or similar change such a case? |
| 10:20:24 | | Join ddalton [0] (n=daniel@203-214-50-20.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 10:20:54 | B4gder | I mean, can gcc possibly see this better if optimizing |
| 10:20:54 | petur | you should init it... if the second cond ever changes, a nasty bug is introduced easily |
| 10:21:24 | * | jhMikeS couldn't even compile an ARM build with any other -O option. |
| 10:21:27 | B4gder | yes, I agree that the warning can be seen as pointing out a sloppy practise that leads to hard-to-maintain code |
| 10:21:53 | | Quit Hadaka (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) |
| 10:22:01 | jhMikeS | petur: I feel like I should be the master of what's needed, not the compiler. :) |
| 10:22:13 | B4gder | it's just a warning |
| 10:23:25 | jhMikeS | heh...just a warning. the cops tell me that all the time :P |
| 10:23:40 | B4gder | *g* |
| 10:24:37 | petur | oh... you're _that_ dangerous? :p |
| 10:28:44 | amiconn | LinusN: Why do you want gui_syncsplash() to wait for voice to end? Voice is asynchronous by design, I'd hate that behaviour... |
| 10:28:45 | * | jhMikeS *whistling* |
| 10:29:04 | * | jhMikeS supposes he should close some FS stuff now |
| 10:29:15 | LinusN | amiconn: gui_syncsplash() is not asynchronous, hence the name |
| 10:29:37 | * | jhMikeS thought "sync" was referring to screens |
| 10:29:41 | amiconn | No., the "sync" just means "all LCDs" in that case |
| 10:30:58 | LinusN | amiconn: ah, my bad, but if the "ticks" parameter is set, it sleeps |
| 10:31:13 | amiconn | yes |
| 10:31:16 | LinusN | and then it should wait until the voice is finished |
| 10:31:30 | amiconn | Imho it should not |
| 10:31:37 | LinusN | otherwise the voice is interrupted when the screen returns to the menu |
| 10:31:41 | amiconn | Voice can play *way* longer than the timeout |
| 10:31:52 | LinusN | that's my point |
| 10:32:18 | amiconn | Voice is only interupted if there's all new stuff to announce, and that's on purpose then |
| 10:32:36 | LinusN | in this case, the alarm screen exits before the "waking up in xx" is spoken, so you don't hear it |
| 10:32:42 | amiconn | It ensures quick navigation |
| 10:32:55 | ddalton | your talking about my patch? |
| 10:32:59 | LinusN | yes |
| 10:33:10 | amiconn | That's a special case then |
| 10:33:22 | LinusN | yes, perhaps |
| 10:33:26 | ddalton | how long does it take to finish talking |
| 10:33:56 | amiconn | ddalton: That's not predictable, as it depends on language and voice speed |
| 10:34:05 | ddalton | o yeah... |
| 10:35:13 | ddalton | well when exiting the alarm you land on the wake up alarm option why don't we just make that voice not interrupt the alarm wake up message. |
| 10:35:53 | ddalton | I guess we can't. Because of make_menu |
| 10:36:24 | ddalton | what would happen if you press a button when a gui_syncsplash is displaying something is set at 20 seconds? |
| 10:36:37 | ddalton | How does "Loading" work? |
| 10:36:42 | | Join DefineByte [0] (n=DefineBy@bb-87-81-195-5.ukonline.co.uk) |
| 10:36:47 | ddalton | isn't it much the same? |
| 10:37:58 | amiconn | The button press will be queued like normal |
| 10:38:23 | ddalton | so what should we do then? |
| 10:38:30 | ddalton | any ideas? |
| 10:38:40 | LinusN | we should let the alarm screen wait for the voice before exiting |
| 10:38:56 | ddalton | how? |
| 10:39:10 | ddalton | there are different spees the voice file can be |
| 10:39:19 | ddalton | speeds |
| 10:41:06 | DefineByte | i've noticed that, on the iPod 5G, when the backlight is off the first keypress is not enacted, it only turns the backlight on. the second keypress does enothing (at least while the backlight is on), the third keypress works as expected. is this known? |
| 10:42:54 | Kalthare | I think that's configurable. |
| 10:42:54 | pixelma | LinusN: could this problem with voicing splashes also be the reason why I sometimes get the "loading" splash voiced twice? |
| 10:43:08 | GodEater_ | DefineByte: that's a config option |
| 10:43:11 | LinusN | pixelma: yes, probably |
| 10:43:21 | pixelma | I see |
| 10:43:41 | DefineByte | disable second keypress is a config option? |
| 10:43:55 | linuxstb | "first keypress enables backlight" is the option |
| 10:44:01 | DefineByte | i know you can set whether to just turn te backlight on or not on first keypress |
| 10:44:06 | Kalthare | Oh, the second keypress? no, that'd be a bug then. |
| 10:44:11 | DefineByte | but the second gets eaten |
| 10:44:19 | Kalthare | Sorry.. getting late, and I didn't read it right. |
| 10:44:24 | * | jhMikeS knew his dual-core changes weren't the reason for double-talk |
| 10:44:35 | DefineByte | i didn't describe it very well, probably |
| 10:44:47 | GodEater_ | DefineByte: ah - not noticed that behaviour myself |
| 10:45:06 | DefineByte | i get it all the time. as in 100% reproducable |
| 10:45:13 | GodEater_ | although I have noticed that the ipod is very slow to acknowledge key presses after having the hold switch turned off |
| 10:45:23 | GodEater_ | sometimes it takes as many as five goes for it to accept the "pause" perss |
| 10:45:24 | GodEater_ | *press |
| 10:45:37 | amiconn | I never observed this, but then I don't use "First keypress enables backlight only" |
| 10:45:38 | DefineByte | it may be related to the baclight coming on with the hold switch, i'm not sure |
| 10:46:00 | DefineByte | i always use the hold switch |
| 10:46:08 | amiconn | I do know that sometimes the first keypress after hold is eaten |
| 10:46:22 | DefineByte | that could be it then. :) |
| 10:46:26 | amiconn | ...but then I don't use hold often either |
| 10:46:35 | | Join Jangari [0] (n=Jangari@ppp121-44-121-118.lns10.syd6.internode.on.net) |
| 10:46:46 | Jangari | does anyone use that dos based font converter? |
| 10:46:58 | DefineByte | well, as long as it's known. not a big issue really. :) |
| 10:47:01 | Jangari | makefont.bat? |
| 10:47:02 | B4gder | dos based font converter? |
| 10:47:06 | Jangari | yeah |
| 10:47:18 | Jangari | it's fucken cool, and very quick and simple |
| 10:47:34 | B4gder | somehow I doubt it is truly dos based |
| 10:48:05 | DefineByte | probably just console based |
| 10:48:27 | Jangari | whatever, you run it from cmd |
| 10:48:35 | Jangari | i aint no nerd |
| 10:48:37 | Jangari | :P |
| 10:48:47 | DefineByte | hey, we need more nerds |
| 10:49:05 | Jangari | i'm a nerd, just not a computer nerd |
| 10:49:08 | Jangari | alright? |
| 10:49:13 | gammy | Heh a friend of mine once made a little dos TSR which rotated the bios font. It was wicked :D |
| 10:50:01 | DefineByte | what open hardware is out there that doesn't have a rockbox port? anyone know any? |
| 10:50:11 | DefineByte | lots? |
| 10:50:26 | B4gder | open hardware such as... ? |
| 10:50:42 | DefineByte | not open open, just documented i guess |
| 10:50:53 | B4gder | such as... ? |
| 10:51:03 | DefineByte | i thought that was my q |
| 10:51:14 | B4gder | I don't understand your question |
| 10:51:16 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 10:51:24 | DefineByte | coldifre is documented right? |
| 10:51:27 | DefineByte | pp is closed |
| 10:51:40 | GodEater_ | coldfire is an architecture |
| 10:51:42 | GodEater_ | pp is a brand |
| 10:51:57 | Jangari | ah, wickid |
| 10:52:00 | B4gder | I'm not sure all coldfires are documented |
| 10:52:04 | Jangari | just found what i was looking for |
| 10:52:13 | Jangari | a simulator |
| 10:52:26 | gammy | Don't the iHP120-series use coldfire? |
| 10:52:32 | LinusN | DefineByte: what we are trying to say is that there are actually no players around with documented hardware, except for the neuros |
| 10:52:32 | gammy | (Sorry for such a silly question) |
| 10:52:38 | DefineByte | but is there any DAPs out there with known documentation but no port due to lack of interest? |
| 10:52:38 | B4gder | gammy: they do, yes |
| 10:52:44 | gammy | B4gder: Ok. |
| 10:52:54 | B4gder | gammy: but there are many different coldfire versions |
| 10:53:00 | DefineByte | really? that's a pretty sorry state of affairs |
| 10:53:02 | gammy | B4gder: Yeah I understand that. |
| 10:53:14 | B4gder | DefineByte: well, if you think of "documented" for the cpu only |
| 10:53:17 | B4gder | then yes |
| 10:53:18 | LinusN | DefineByte: and ironically, the neuros uses a microcontroller with no public documentation |
| 10:53:21 | B4gder | like the iAudio m3 |
| 10:53:55 | B4gder | but virtually no players are documented all the way |
| 10:53:56 | DefineByte | why do these companies not want their hardware to be used? it's mad |
| 10:55:15 | | Join skate3214 [0] (n=chatzill@C-59-101-82-50.syd.connect.net.au) |
| 10:55:26 | jhMikeS | DRM, license fees, paranoia, I'm sure |
| 10:55:41 | B4gder | mostly paranoia |
| 10:56:04 | B4gder | and the "we don't want the hobby projects to clog our support" |
| 10:56:13 | B4gder | (basically what the AMS guy told me) |
| 10:56:14 | jhMikeS | that telechips doc was so huge on IP |
| 10:56:14 | DefineByte | they probably see their hardware being ripped off by chinese companies etc |
| 10:56:15 | LinusN | well, rockbox *has* caused an increase in support calls to for example archos |
| 10:56:35 | DefineByte | really? that's pretty bad |
| 10:56:40 | jhMikeS | ugh |
| 10:56:48 | DefineByte | but archos isn't the chip maker |
| 10:56:55 | LinusN | nope |
| 10:57:06 | DefineByte | so it wouldn't affect them |
| 10:57:11 | LinusN | the chip maker paranoia is beyond me |
| 10:57:39 | DefineByte | it's corperate culture i guess |
| 10:57:51 | DefineByte | everything they do has to be secret or it has no value |
| 10:57:57 | jhMikeS | anything NDA'ed I've seen ... it's just ridiculous. hardly anything, if anything worth hiding |
| 10:58:18 | DefineByte | corporate/ |
| 10:59:04 | DefineByte | they like to feel important it seems. like they have something so valuable that if others found out about it they'd be instantly screwed |
| 10:59:07 | linuxstb | DefineByte: ArchOpen is a project similar to Rockbox - it's an open source replacement OS for the newer Archos devices. So it contains lots of source/info that could aid Rockbox ports to those (and similar) devices. Although those Archos devices are PMPs, rather than strictly DAPs, so Rockbox ports may not be that useful. |
| 10:59:38 | GodEater_ | which isn't stopping you trying to port it to one :) |
| 10:59:40 | B4gder | I would also think that customers of these hardwares don't care enough |
| 10:59:48 | B4gder | so there's no push for the manufactorers to change |
| 10:59:50 | jhMikeS | I'm not just getting that from stuff RB related. |
| 10:59:55 | DefineByte | i'd imagine owners of those would be after pretty extensive multimedia support |
| 11:00 |
| 11:00:59 | DefineByte | what about DAB radios? maybe rockbox could work on those (the ones with storage at least) |
| 11:01:01 | gammy | B4gder: Have you done any work for the iHP-series yourself? |
| 11:01:17 | B4gder | yes |
| 11:01:17 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF518E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:01:21 | jhMikeS | You have to sign NDA just to get service manuals stuff, for instance. |
| 11:01:22 | gammy | B4gder: Neato. |
| 11:01:36 | B4gder | me been poking all over |
| 11:01:56 | gammy | B4gder: Without the rockbox port to that I would have bought a new player many, many yeaes ago. Rockbox keeps it kickin'. |
| 11:02:31 | DefineByte | i guess that's why companies don't like to open hardware then. they want you to upgrade |
| 11:02:34 | gammy | years even. Silly new keyboard. |
| 11:03:03 | jhMikeS | yes, rockbox does show how underutilized the devices are and most technological "progress" is a sham |
| 11:03:11 | linuxstb | Don't chip makers also sell expensive SDKs with runtime licenses... ? |
| 11:03:33 | DefineByte | forced obsolescence is a terrible thing |
| 11:04:15 | DefineByte | especially if we're supposed to be more environmentally conscious |
| 11:04:52 | jhMikeS | Did I read correctly here that Sansa thought about actually introducing an enhanced e200 to do what was done with a few lines of code for SDHC? |
| 11:05:03 | DefineByte | how many SDKs do they sell for 2 year old hardware? |
| 11:05:22 | B4gder | jhMikeS: yes, at least according to some rumour |
| 11:05:24 | LinusN | jhMikeS: doesn't sound surprising at all |
| 11:05:38 | B4gder | the sdhc support should be displayed with a special logo |
| 11:05:52 | B4gder | which the current e200 players don't feature |
| 11:06:04 | DefineByte | preferable holographic |
| 11:06:08 | jhMikeS | ?? |
| 11:06:24 | linuxstb | B4gder: So we should add the logo ? ;) |
| 11:06:31 | LinusN | haha |
| 11:06:31 | jhMikeS | I guess we just can't make it official then. |
| 11:06:43 | B4gder | yeah, "buy your microsdhc logo sticker here =>" |
| 11:06:58 | jhMikeS | $400/yr |
| 11:07:06 | DefineByte | cheap |
| 11:07:21 | DefineByte | would users really know what it meant? |
| 11:07:26 | jhMikeS | but it holographic...like many stickers in one |
| 11:07:39 | DefineByte | would they even care? |
| 11:08:23 | DefineByte | i was more thinking holographic to make forgery of their precious logo harder |
| 11:08:25 | jhMikeS | makes me think, it's really the lawyers |
| 11:09:18 | DefineByte | capitalism is founded on lawyers |
| 11:09:43 | jhMikeS | headlines: SDHC Sticker Forgery Ring Busted |
| 11:09:59 | DefineByte | it wouldn't surprise me |
| 11:10:16 | DefineByte | they do it for sony memory sticks |
| 11:10:22 | B4gder | "To ensure compatibility, look for the SDHC logo on cards and host devices (cameras, |
| 11:10:23 | B4gder | camcorders, etc.)" |
| 11:10:32 | B4gder | (http://www.steves-digicams.com/pdf/sdhc.pdf) |
| 11:10:51 | jhMikeS | rockbox is _not_ _not_ compatible with SDHC |
| 11:11:08 | petur | not not? so it is? |
| 11:11:18 | * | jhMikeS didn't say that |
| 11:12:38 | jhMikeS | isn't it possible "not not" != "is" ? :P |
| 11:13:02 | Ave | is it such a crime if you just say it out loud |
| 11:13:18 | Ave | the emperors bloody new clothes |
| 11:13:44 | * | jhMikeS will wash out those blood stains ;) |
| 11:14:46 | DefineByte | they may say it's quality control. there's a shit load of fake memory stick duos on ebay don't know about other standards |
| 11:15:17 | B4gder | if they're fake, they surely fake the logo sticker as well |
| 11:15:32 | DefineByte | indeed. it's all bs |
| 11:15:46 | DefineByte | just trying to appear like they're doing something |
| 11:15:53 | DefineByte | same with drm |
| 11:16:10 | DefineByte | if i was a share holder i'd be pissed at the amount of omney wated on drm |
| 11:16:31 | DefineByte | but it keeps up appearances |
| 11:16:42 | B4gder | I believe companies such as Apple has earned quite a few bucks even though they do DRM a lot |
| 11:17:03 | DefineByte | im more thinking of the record labels |
| 11:17:04 | B4gder | but sure, they may still have wasted money on it |
| 11:17:22 | DefineByte | the hardware manufactuers are quids in |
| 11:17:26 | | Part LinusN |
| 11:18:58 | jhMikeS | if the company can be convinced it's to their benefit to help the rockbox project, I don't doubt they would. Just the fact that sansa approached the project seems to indicate the waters are being tested. |
| 11:19:26 | DefineByte | i buy daps purely based on rockbox support now |
| 11:20:22 | DefineByte | no closed solutions offer anything close |
| 11:20:50 | jhMikeS | if they do share info about things such as the AS3514, it's best to be on best behavior and not screw that stuff up. |
| 11:20:51 | GodEater_ | they do offer a bit more in terms of reliability mind you |
| 11:21:06 | GodEater_ | when *is* playback.c going to be re-written ? ;) |
| 11:21:18 | DefineByte | xD |
| 11:21:21 | jhMikeS | heh |
| 11:21:41 | DefineByte | but if you're stuck with an unreliable dap you're screwed |
| 11:21:46 | * | GodEater_ suspects it's still a case of "let sleeping dogs lie" |
| 11:21:48 | jhMikeS | when the buffer is separated...a big start esp. to getting threading right |
| 11:21:50 | DefineByte | at least with rockbox there's a future |
| 11:22:35 | * | petur wishes linuxstb good luck on getting a response from austriancoder |
| 11:22:45 | B4gder | yeah, does he even read the list? |
| 11:23:01 | B4gder | I think all committers should of course... |
| 11:23:18 | DefineByte | formal procedure and all x) |
| 11:23:40 | B4gder | rockbox is 100% about being formal |
| 11:23:48 | B4gder | </sarcasm> |
| 11:24:23 | * | jhMikeS gets lazy about forums and mailing lists, etc. when working on a big project. |
| 11:24:28 | GodEater_ | yeah, we have specs written in Z and everything |
| 11:24:44 | GodEater_ | *shudder* |
| 11:24:57 | | Join LinusN [0] (i=linus@rockbox/developer/LinusN) |
| 11:25:15 | | Quit kubiixaka ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 11:25:48 | DefineByte | were you being sarcastic b4dger? |
| 11:25:58 | jhMikeS | dual-core thread.c sort of rivals playback.c in length but actually doesn't crash or deadlock :) |
| 11:26:23 | DefineByte | how common are rockbox crashes in normal use? |
| 11:27:02 | ddalton | what target? |
| 11:27:14 | DefineByte | all, in general |
| 11:27:20 | ddalton | depends |
| 11:27:21 | jhMikeS | not uncommon enough thanks to race conditions. cooperative multitasking really doesn't afford any shortcuts to synchronization. |
| 11:27:24 | DefineByte | in non-target specific code |
| 11:27:30 | ddalton | h300 not many ipods a couple more |
| 11:27:35 | ddalton | but over all very good |
| 11:28:07 | GodEater_ | DefineByte: there are things you can do to produce reliable crashes in rockbox |
| 11:28:17 | GodEater_ | for which the solutions are not at all abvious |
| 11:28:23 | GodEater_ | *obvious |
| 11:28:40 | DefineByte | my useage pattern is pretty basic so i've never seen a crash |
| 11:29:13 | GodEater_ | DefineByte: do you have the setting for automatically changing folder turned on ? |
| 11:29:17 | jhMikeS | ?? |
| 11:29:27 | DefineByte | no i don't |
| 11:29:36 | GodEater_ | DefineByte: I won't bother demonstrating then ;) |
| 11:29:37 | DefineByte | does that crash often? |
| 11:29:40 | jhMikeS | hehe |
| 11:29:53 | GodEater_ | it does if you're in the file browser as the lpayback engine tries to change to the next folder |
| 11:29:55 | B4gder | TI releases another DMS320 sibling, sub 10USD with HD-abilities... |
| 11:30:04 | obo | and you have dircache turned on |
| 11:30:16 | B4gder | guess we'll see more TI based DAPs and media players ahead |
| 11:30:18 | DefineByte | that i do have on |
| 11:30:18 | GodEater_ | you have to have dircache on for that one ? |
| 11:30:39 | obo | yup, I could only reproduce it with dircache enabled |
| 11:30:40 | jhMikeS | eek...raid the TI offices |
| 11:30:57 | DefineByte | how about porting rockbox to PVRs? i'd love to turn my topfield into a jukebox. 8) |
| 11:31:01 | B4gder | "can encode or decode 720p HD MPEG-4 SP video at 30 frames per second" |
| 11:31:19 | B4gder | at 400mW |
| 11:31:27 | * | jhMikeS hates the day he needs to add AUDIO_SRC_VIDEO :P |
| 11:31:41 | B4gder | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5620449448.html |
| 11:32:22 | * | B4gder looks forward to a rockbox port for a DMS320 device |
| 11:32:49 | DefineByte | portable video seems a bit of a dead end to me |
| 11:32:51 | GodEater_ | obo - how right you are - that doesn't cause the codec failure if you have dircache off |
| 11:34:42 | obo | that is as far as I got tracking it down, I think it'll need a dircache guru to take a looksie |
| 11:34:54 | * | GodEater_ points at jhMikeS |
| 11:35:01 | * | linuxstb updates SansaE200RInstallation and hopes it's clearer... |
| 11:35:40 | GodEater_ | linuxstb: that looks much better |
| 11:35:42 | * | jhMikeS stares puzzled |
| 11:36:09 | GodEater_ | at what ? |
| 11:36:20 | * | obo points at Slasheri :) |
| 11:36:20 | jhMikeS | why you're pointing at me |
| 11:36:28 | GodEater_ | thought you were Mr. Dircache :) |
| 11:36:48 | jhMikeS | bleh ... should I be? I need a new hat. |
| 11:36:51 | GodEater_ | clearly I was wrong |
| 11:36:55 | * | GodEater_ goes to stand in the corner |
| 11:37:26 | DefineByte | sounds like someone needs to be |
| 11:39:01 | * | jhMikeS can't even remember what file implements it :P |
| 11:39:13 | obo | FS #5797 is the bug report |
| 11:39:43 | GodEater_ | heh |
| 11:43:50 | | Join Weiss [0] (i=taw27@pip.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk) |
| 11:45:12 | | Quit LycoLoco_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 11:46:43 | jhMikeS | hmmm.................... |
| 11:51:49 | amiconn | GodEater: Slasheri is Cacheri (and Flasheri as well) ;) |
| 11:52:17 | DefineByte | looks like dircache removes the existing cache file before creating the new one. is that the right way to do things? |
| 11:52:28 | DefineByte | or am i getting it wrong? |
| 11:52:44 | | Join Rob222241 [0] (n=Miranda@pD952B5CF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:52:51 | GodEater_ | DefineByte: when it initialises you mean ? |
| 11:53:01 | DefineByte | yeah |
| 11:53:40 | GodEater_ | DefineByte: would seem the safest way to do it to me |
| 11:53:46 | amiconn | There is no cache file, except on a flashed H1x0 |
| 11:54:32 | DefineByte | so if thw write fails you just lose the cache? i guess it's easily rebuilt |
| 11:54:39 | | Join fm2 [0] (i=c27f0814@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-1a502b0eeb3913c7) |
| 11:54:46 | * | jhMikeS basically gets the dircache hoosgow now |
| 11:55:41 | fm2 | I'd like to talk about FS #7232. Would a setting for keymap to use be accepted in SVN? |
| 11:55:51 | amiconn | DefineByte: On all standard targets, the cache only lives in RAM |
| 11:56:13 | preglow | jhMikeS: adding dual core support adds 3k lines to thread.c? +? ?? |
| 11:56:15 | DefineByte | didn't know that. thought it got written to disk eventually |
| 11:57:08 | amiconn | No, that would be dangerous as the disk content can change without rockbox noticing |
| 11:58:13 | linuxstb | DefineByte: What would be the point in saving dircache? Between boots to Rockbox, anything (and everything) could have changed on the disk, so Rockbox has to do a complete scan anyway. |
| 11:58:57 | DefineByte | can't it check to see if the FAT has changed (or whatever it's called xD)? |
| 11:59:31 | B4gder | this may sounds strange but we have given this some thought already |
| 12:00 |
| 12:00:04 | DefineByte | i'm sure there's a good reason. i just like tothink about it :) |
| 12:00:14 | | Join kclaf [0] (n=kclaf@85.95.211.245) |
| 12:01:22 | | Quit kclaf (Remote closed the connection) |
| 12:01:24 | | Part fm2 ("... awaiting JdGordon and Llorean to arrive") |
| 12:01:25 | jhMikeS | preglow: not that much. |
| 12:01:48 | jhMikeS | I did comment it a whole lot |
| 12:01:54 | preglow | definitely good |
| 12:02:55 | DefineByte | you can't save the FAT as well and compare it? |
| 12:03:20 | jhMikeS | it's about 2100 lines fixing all holes, adding comments, richening the threading API and guaranteeing low latencies all about 25-30% faster. |
| 12:03:57 | dionoea | DefineByte: save the whole disc on the disc ?? |
| 12:04:25 | DefineByte | i thought the FAT was just an index pointing to the clusters |
| 12:05:05 | dionoea | Anyway, comparing would be the same as rebuilding the cache wouldn't it ? (interms of disc access) |
| 12:05:19 | preglow | jhMikeS: got a patch hanging around? |
| 12:05:40 | DefineByte | how small is the FAT then? |
| 12:05:43 | jhMikeS | preglow: could make one |
| 12:05:44 | amiconn | DefineByte: Directory contents may change without the FAT being touched. A little bit of thinking reveals that |
| 12:05:52 | amiconn | And the FAT can be several MB |
| 12:06:02 | DefineByte | hah, or lack of ignorance :D |
| 12:06:03 | preglow | jhMikeS: don't bother, can't test now anyway |
| 12:06:26 | ddalton | how does make_menu work. Like for example if I make an option "music" what function does it call? |
| 12:06:49 | jhMikeS | I _should_ be able get to cracking the problems on pp5020 soon |
| 12:07:40 | | Join The-Compiler [0] (n=florian@103.3.77.83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 12:08:22 | jhMikeS | the trickiest little bit to implement is to switch a thread's processor but that works nicely now too (it will have practical application). |
| 12:08:36 | | Quit Rob2222 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 12:08:50 | DefineByte | how does the directory contents get changed without touching the FAT in valid operation? no doubt a stupid question born out of ignorance of file systems x) |
| 12:09:22 | | Quit skate3214 ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007073113]") |
| 12:09:26 | DefineByte | feel free to ignore if you find yourself slapping your forehead |
| 12:10:39 | LinusN | DefineByte: the FAT only contains information about *where* on the disk the files/directories are |
| 12:10:58 | LinusN | not the contents |
| 12:11:21 | LinusN | which means that you can, for example, rename a file without altering the FAT |
| 12:11:24 | preglow | jhMikeS: what application? |
| 12:11:40 | | Quit Rob222241 (Connection timed out) |
| 12:11:44 | GodEater_ | LinusN: the file name is not held in the FAT ? |
| 12:11:49 | DefineByte | learn something new... where are the filenames held then? |
| 12:11:56 | LinusN | GodEater: nope |
| 12:12:17 | LinusN | DefineByte: in the directories |
| 12:12:26 | GodEater_ | ah of course |
| 12:12:41 | DefineByte | which you scan. okay fair enough :) |
| 12:12:49 | LinusN | :-) |
| 12:13:09 | * | ddalton better read his c book! |
| 12:14:04 | DefineByte | my brain is a load of 0xFFF7 it seems. :) |
| 12:14:33 | jhMikeS | preglow: one big place where it's safer is to terminate another processor's thread. another will be for codecs that which to choose their processor configuration. another is pcm control which should be in the correct context. |
| 12:16:25 | | Part Kalthare |
| 12:19:23 | jhMikeS | there's currently a huge bug in SVN where a terminated cop thread continues to use a stack from an exited plugin until it changes to another thread to run. baaaad. taken care of using idle stacks when needed. |
| 12:22:11 | | Join seablue [0] (n=s@0x535c1344.banxx3.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
| 12:24:06 | preglow | haha |
| 12:25:34 | jhMikeS | one must mind the stack of the last thread to call switch_thread is the one used for idling, until the next real context switch. |
| 12:25:38 | amiconn | jhMikeS: Eh? How can a terminated thread continue to use something? Shouldn't the cop just idle in cop_main() if there are no other threads? |
| 12:25:52 | jhMikeS | read above :) |
| 12:27:01 | amiconn | Hmm, I don't think I understand that fully. Such things happen when too much complexity is introduced :/ |
| 12:28:45 | jhMikeS | which is sp is the one being used until load_context is called for the next thread? even the old type threading would be subject. |
| 12:31:04 | amiconn | No it wouldn't, as it always switched context for real |
| 12:31:14 | | Join austriancoder [0] (n=austrian@rockbox/developer/austriancoder) |
| 12:31:23 | jhMikeS | as long at least one thread was not sleeping |
| 12:31:43 | preglow | amiconn: there's nothing "keep it simple" about dual core in the first place, you can't talk about introducing complexity there |
| 12:31:56 | austriancoder | linuxstb: I have seen this too that usb detection wasnt working... i am checking it atm |
| 12:32:19 | jhMikeS | given that geniune blocking cuts processor activity by some 200 times (from your measurement) I'd say it's worthwhile especially with powerful CPUs that would just spin around horribly making millions of switch thread calls when doing nothing. |
| 12:32:33 | | Join My_Sic [0] (n=MySic@modemcable061.67-37-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 12:33:03 | | Join james_malone [0] (n=James@58.175.83.231) |
| 12:33:17 | linuxstb | austriancoder: OK. Something else I wanted to bring to your attention is that the Sansa bootloader runs usb_init() - which (unless you were running your own bootloader) would have explained why the usb detection still worked when you removed that init code from Rockbox. |
| 12:33:29 | | Join Nick_Brackley [0] (n=chatzill@75.73.87.203.static.nsw.chariot.net.au) |
| 12:33:49 | jhMikeS | If archos managed 2400 doing nothing, I don't even want to see what a Gigabeat would rack up over the 10-12 switches it currently does. |
| 12:34:15 | austriancoder | linuxstb: I think its time build bootloaders :) |
| 12:34:16 | | Quit james_malone (Client Quit) |
| 12:35:27 | obo | linuxstb: any thoughts about FS #7709? |
| 12:36:38 | linuxstb | obo: Did you read the results of my own attempt to implement "usb bootloader mode" in IRC last night? |
| 12:36:52 | obo | no, I missed that |
| 12:37:14 | linuxstb | obo: Basically, calling usb_init prevented both disk mode and the original firmware from working. |
| 12:37:33 | linuxstb | Your method works (IIUC) because you're rebooting. |
| 12:39:31 | | Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (n=felixbru@h1252615.stratoserver.net) |
| 12:39:33 | obo | ah, okay. Maybe I ought to add a check for the hold button as well as usb_power... (thinking about having hold on, and connecting a USB charger) |
| 12:40:19 | | Join aliask [0] (n=chatzill@c58-109-97-210.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 12:40:19 | | Quit petur (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 12:40:30 | | Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 12:40:56 | | Join Spaetzchen [0] (i=57a0e346@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-cbc138ff985039aa) |
| 12:41:01 | Spaetzchen | hello |
| 12:41:10 | Spaetzchen | is someone here who can speaks german? |
| 12:41:21 | austriancoder | yep |
| 12:41:31 | | Join Rob222241 [0] (n=Miranda@pD952AEB9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:41:34 | Spaetzchen | du sprichst deutsch und kannst mir helfen? ;) |
| 12:41:42 | DefineByte | the name kinda gives it away :D |
| 12:41:58 | austriancoder | deutsch: ja,,, ob ich dir helfen kann... keine Ahnung |
| 12:42:06 | Spaetzchen | hihi, ich versuchs mal ;-) |
| 12:42:12 | pixelma | this is an english speaking channel though |
| 12:42:13 | linuxstb | obo: That could work... Although it would be nicer to work out how to "uninit" the USB hardware and make the OF and diskmode happy... |
| 12:42:31 | Spaetzchen | ich hab gestern rockbox auf meinem sansa e250 installiert |
| 12:42:45 | austriancoder | Spaetzchen: lets move to a privtate chat |
| 12:42:52 | DefineByte | it's all about the games isn't it? >.> |
| 12:42:53 | Spaetzchen | wie geht das? |
| 12:42:54 | jhMikeS | timeout checks are also now done only at the soonest task ready to run instead of every tick, so that's a factor of 10 reduction in checks not to mention lazy removal from that list that speeds thread wakeup a good deal. you can count that a thread will never have to wait till the next tick unless it calls sleep with an arg of 1 or greater. |
| 12:42:58 | pixelma | Spaetzchen: maybe you'll find more people who can help you when you try to explain your problem in english |
| 12:43:20 | Spaetzchen | my problem is that I can't speak english very well ;) |
| 12:43:43 | Spaetzchen | so I can't explain it in english, because I even don't know how to explain in german |
| 12:43:46 | GodEater_ | Spaetzchen: you speak it a lot better than some of the idiots we get in here who claim it as a first language |
| 12:43:56 | Spaetzchen | hm |
| 12:44:00 | Spaetzchen | thx ;-) |
| 12:44:04 | jhMikeS | the thing that irks me the most is the scheduler boost control. how a thread blocks has nothing to do with boosting imo. |
| 12:44:05 | Spaetzchen | ok, I'll try |
| 12:44:23 | Spaetzchen | yesterday I installed rockbox on my Sansa e250 :-) |
| 12:44:46 | Spaetzchen | now I have the problem that I have no backgroundpictures |
| 12:44:50 | | Join norbusan [0] (n=norbusan@dhcp03.algebra.tuwien.ac.at) |
| 12:44:50 | preglow | jhMikeS: agree wit that |
| 12:44:55 | linuxstb | jhMikeS: I'm not sure there are many fans of the scheduler boost control feature |
| 12:44:57 | | Part norbusan |
| 12:45:18 | Spaetzchen | and no sound - wikipedia said that this software for people who has problems with their eyes (blind people) |
| 12:45:35 | DefineByte | ah speech |
| 12:45:38 | Spaetzchen | but I've got many games on it, but I don't need it ;-) |
| 12:45:44 | Spaetzchen | jo, sorry, speech ;-) |
| 12:46:14 | Spaetzchen | so I tried to deinstall - nothing happend - it said that he can't find the system ;-) |
| 12:46:28 | Spaetzchen | so I have no rockbox and not the normal player ;-) |
| 12:46:32 | jhMikeS | I'm wondering if boosts should just fizzle out if not explicitly maintained or are cancelled. |
| 12:46:36 | Spaetzchen | so my question is: what can I do? ;-) |
| 12:47:15 | jhMikeS | that's another subject. the fix for voice basically reduced it all to the original protocol. |
| 12:48:04 | preglow | jhMikeS: hmm, that might work nicely |
| 12:48:11 | preglow | but would of course stress placement of boost calls more |
| 12:49:05 | DefineByte | what player are you using? |
| 12:49:35 | Spaetzchen | me? |
| 12:49:54 | DefineByte | yes :) |
| 12:50:04 | Spaetzchen | SanDisk Sansa e250 |
| 12:51:04 | B4gder | Spaetzchen: what exactly does it say when you start it now? |
| 12:51:17 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 12:51:22 | Spaetzchen | File not found |
| 12:51:31 | DefineByte | anyone with any experiance of recovering a sansa? |
| 12:51:39 | B4gder | Spaetzchen: and you did unzip a rockbox zip on the player? |
| 12:51:40 | Spaetzchen | because I deleted it ;-) |
| 12:51:47 | B4gder | deleted what? |
| 12:51:51 | Spaetzchen | the file |
| 12:51:54 | B4gder | what file? |
| 12:52:12 | DefineByte | you deleted the /rockbox directory? |
| 12:52:18 | DefineByte | .rockbox |
| 12:52:23 | Spaetzchen | yes ;-) |
| 12:52:34 | Spaetzchen | because there was no pictures and no speech |
| 12:52:44 | B4gder | and now you have? |
| 12:52:44 | Spaetzchen | so I tried to delete everything that I can try it again |
| 12:52:47 | B4gder | gee... |
| 12:52:53 | Spaetzchen | but |
| 12:53:07 | Spaetzchen | NOW I have the prob that I can't start ;-) |
| 12:53:13 | B4gder | so get into recovery mode and put back .rockbox, or re-install the original sansa OF |
| 12:53:16 | Spaetzchen | I can't deinstall |
| 12:53:21 | Spaetzchen | I can't reinstall |
| 12:53:25 | B4gder | sure you can, just read our guides |
| 12:53:31 | linuxstb | Shouldn't it start the OF if you start the Sansa with USB attached? |
| 12:53:42 | linuxstb | (OF = original firmware) |
| 12:53:44 | Spaetzchen | OF? |
| 12:53:48 | Spaetzchen | hihi |
| 12:53:48 | Spaetzchen | no |
| 12:53:50 | B4gder | that's the idea, I don't think it works everywhere |
| 12:54:02 | linuxstb | Or manually press a button to start the original firmware? |
| 12:54:06 | Spaetzchen | it doesn't starts, I don't know how to start in the normal |
| 12:54:11 | B4gder | pressing << starts the OF |
| 12:54:17 | Spaetzchen | ok, mom |
| 12:54:24 | B4gder | Spaetzchen: you COULD read the manual you know... |
| 12:54:39 | B4gder | a crazy idea, I know |
| 12:54:43 | Spaetzchen | I read it, but I don't understand it |
| 12:54:55 | DefineByte | is the manual in german? |
| 12:54:56 | Spaetzchen | I did everything what the manual said |
| 12:55:05 | Spaetzchen | a little one, yes |
| 12:55:34 | Spaetzchen | I did everything what the manual said - press enter etc. to install .... |
| 12:55:34 | B4gder | we only have english manuals |
| 12:55:41 | jhMikeS | preglow: I suppose but I think it wouldn't take too much given a sufficiently long expiration. I think giving cancelling control to the _last_ thread to request boost is all that's needed. not a per-thread record as it is now. |
| 12:55:49 | B4gder | Spaetzchen: I don't think it told you to remove the .rockbox directory |
| 12:55:51 | Spaetzchen | but there wasn't pictures etc. |
| 12:56:04 | B4gder | Spaetzchen: rockbox is not "pictures" |
| 12:56:09 | linuxstb | Spaetzchen: There will only be a background image if you install one... |
| 12:56:09 | Spaetzchen | no, I removed it because nothing happend |
| 12:56:19 | B4gder | nothing? |
| 12:56:20 | Spaetzchen | I installed it |
| 12:56:23 | B4gder | really nothing? |
| 12:56:29 | linuxstb | Spaetzchen: It sounds like you had a perfectly working Rockbox install, but didn't install the themes or voice files. |
| 12:56:36 | Spaetzchen | I think the games are ok ;-) |
| 12:56:44 | B4gder | the games of nothing you mean then? |
| 12:56:45 | Spaetzchen | but I can't do anything |
| 12:56:56 | Spaetzchen | so I tried to deinstall, but it doesn't happend |
| 12:56:57 | B4gder | geees |
| 12:57:01 | * | B4gder stops this and hides |
| 12:57:09 | | Quit My_Sic ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 12:57:13 | linuxstb | You then half-uninstalled it (not following the uninstall instructions in the manual), and stopped your Sansa from working... |
| 12:57:19 | DefineByte | bring on rbutil xD |
| 12:57:20 | Spaetzchen | I installed it, but I haven't seen and heard something |
| 12:57:33 | linuxstb | Spaetzchen: Did you try playing some music? |
| 12:57:51 | Spaetzchen | I have no music on the player because he is new |
| 12:57:51 | linuxstb | Spaetzchen: Did you download and install the voice files? |
| 12:58:01 | DefineByte | does/will rbutil uninstall rockbox? |
| 12:58:13 | Spaetzchen | yes |
| 12:58:33 | linuxstb | DefineByte: Yes (I'm not sure which - the old WX rbutil had an uninstall option, I can't remember if that's in Qt yes, but I expect so) |
| 12:59:01 | Spaetzchen | so, I would like to try it again, but with help |
| 12:59:08 | Spaetzchen | and this is the reason why I |
| 12:59:12 | Spaetzchen | I'm here ;) |
| 12:59:18 | linuxstb | Spaetzchen: But anyway, turn your Sansa off (hold power for about 15 seconds I think), then hold <<, then turn your Sansa back on. It should start the original firmware. |
| 12:59:19 | DefineByte | should prevent this particular problem from cropping up then. :) |
| 12:59:30 | Spaetzchen | I would like to have my old system or the new system with all things I need ;-) |
| 12:59:46 | preglow | jhMikeS: doens't sound like something that would take too long to try out either |
| 12:59:54 | Spaetzchen | yes, I'm in the original |
| 13:00 |
| 13:00:22 | | Quit Rob222241 (Connection timed out) |
| 13:00:25 | linuxstb | Spaetzchen: Then there's no problem - copy .rockbox across and start again. |
| 13:00:39 | Spaetzchen | ok, mom |
| 13:01:05 | linuxstb | When you downloaded the .voice file, did you correctly rename it? |
| 13:01:41 | Spaetzchen | rename? |
| 13:01:54 | linuxstb | Yes |
| 13:02:06 | Spaetzchen | I don't know what u mean |
| 13:02:12 | DefineByte | change the name of the file |
| 13:02:13 | linuxstb | Change the name of the file |
| 13:02:17 | DefineByte | :D |
| 13:02:20 | jhMikeS | preglow: probably not...what I said isn't _quite_ it. I wanted to wait to establish this code before working priority inheritance and that boost control thingy. |
| 13:02:26 | * | linuxstb wins for proper capitalisation |
| 13:02:32 | DefineByte | boo |
| 13:02:35 | | Quit The-Compiler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 13:02:50 | Spaetzchen | no I didn't do this |
| 13:02:57 | Spaetzchen | and I deleted it |
| 13:03:12 | Spaetzchen | can u give me the link that I can download it again, please? |
| 13:03:29 | DefineByte | rockbox.org |
| 13:04:03 | * | amiconn really isn't sure anymore whether we should use the 2nd core on PP at all, given the huge problems it causes |
| 13:04:10 | * | linuxstb agrees with amiconn |
| 13:04:19 | preglow | i am |
| 13:04:23 | preglow | the ui suffers horribly |
| 13:04:34 | preglow | and given the nature of the clickwheel, we need a responsive ui |
| 13:04:38 | | Join PaulJam [0] (n=pauljam@p54BCCE2A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:04:39 | linuxstb | Apart from in certain restricted situations like mpegplayer - where the app is responsible for obeying the restrictions. |
| 13:04:40 | amiconn | In what way? |
| 13:04:51 | * | jhMikeS doesn't know which problems it causes |
| 13:04:55 | linuxstb | preglow: Temporary boost whilst the UI is active would solve that - if code optimisation can't. |
| 13:05:01 | jhMikeS | threaded programming is easy |
| 13:05:09 | preglow | given a sufficiently hungry codec, no it won't |
| 13:05:26 | Spaetzchen | ok, and now dezip in the sansa? |
| 13:05:29 | * | petur spots austriancoder and waves |
| 13:05:54 | amiconn | Dualcore seems to add the same amount of problems (at least) as preemptive threading would |
| 13:05:58 | linuxstb | jhMikeS: It's changing Rockbox from a simple co-operative multi-tasking kernel that more than one person can understand to something only you understand... |
| 13:06:09 | preglow | amiconn: it does some of them, but not all |
| 13:06:20 | austriancoder | petur: hi |
| 13:06:22 | amiconn | ...good enough for some serious headaches |
| 13:06:30 | * | jhMikeS doesn't see problems with preemtive threading and is quite at ease with it. |
| 13:06:33 | preglow | ... on dual core targets |
| 13:06:36 | Spaetzchen | DefineByte what must I do now? |
| 13:06:59 | | Quit GodEater (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 13:07:10 | B4gder | austriancoder: I think it would be good of you to respond to Dave's mail on the list since it was posted there |
| 13:07:18 | preglow | i don't think we should keep chanting the "kiss" mantra so much we start closing our eyes on features just because the code gains a certain complexity |
| 13:07:21 | B4gder | for those who only read the list |
| 13:07:30 | jhMikeS | linuxstb: I hope to comment it sufficiently and messing with that isn't for everyone. Basically it's either: understand it or leave it alone kind of thing. |
| 13:07:32 | linuxstb | preglow: Then such a codec could use the COP. Or we run all codecs on the COP - requiring only the codec api to be multi-core safe, not the whole of Rockbox. |
| 13:07:41 | DefineByte | to be honest i've never installed voice files beofre. i'm sure someone else knows better than me |
| 13:08:11 | B4gder | jhMikeS: pre-emptive thread may be easy to do, but it opens a whole new can of worms for us |
| 13:08:17 | Spaetzchen | hihi |
| 13:08:40 | Spaetzchen | someone said that I must rename this file and where I must put this file? |
| 13:08:49 | preglow | we don't need or want pre-emptive threading |
| 13:09:00 | amiconn | jhMikeS: I really fear that dualcore will cause serious issue in other code than just the scheduler, and I probably have no idea how to deal with them |
| 13:09:06 | jhMikeS | B4gder: depends on the design choices. it can be a non-issue for most code. the code it affects most people don't even look at. |
| 13:09:17 | * | linuxstb is also curious to know the power consumption of running different combinations of COP/CPU at different clock speeds |
| 13:09:23 | B4gder | jhMikeS: I beg to differ on that |
| 13:09:33 | B4gder | threads come back to byte |
| 13:09:34 | | Quit ddalton ("leaving") |
| 13:09:36 | B4gder | bite even |
| 13:09:44 | | Join ddalton [0] (n=daniel@203-214-50-20.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 13:10:24 | jhMikeS | hmmm...then my brain is really odd |
| 13:10:56 | preglow | i like the way we can control the execution flow now anyway |
| 13:11:02 | preglow | no need for critical sections or other stuff |
| 13:11:08 | linuxstb | Spaetzchen: Does the manual have instructions for using voice files? |
| 13:11:29 | preglow | apart from disabling interrupts, that is... |
| 13:11:33 | | Join GodEater [0] (i=c2cbc95c@rockbox/staff/GodEater) |
| 13:11:33 | jhMikeS | but there is a need, and that's just cooperatively. it's not a crutch for improper locking. |
| 13:11:50 | | Quit GodEater_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 13:11:54 | Spaetzchen | yes, but it's only in english ;-) |
| 13:12:02 | Spaetzchen | so I don't know how to do this ;-) |
| 13:12:07 | Spaetzchen | I try it again ;_) |
| 13:12:31 | jhMikeS | if you don't have complete control over what called code does, it affords no luxury |
| 13:12:53 | Spaetzchen | ok, rockbox is again on the player |
| 13:12:57 | Spaetzchen | but what must I do now? |
| 13:13:12 | B4gder | Spaetzchen: find someone who can translate the manual for you |
| 13:13:31 | jhMikeS | I'd have no intention of getting fancy with every part. just certain subsystems which are rather easy to control. |
| 13:13:55 | preglow | but i do agree with linuxstb as far as not needing to make every part of rockbox dualcore aware goes |
| 13:14:03 | Spaetzchen | the problem is |
| 13:14:08 | DefineByte | i guess translating the manual for release would be a goal to strive for |
| 13:14:10 | preglow | but i suspect a good part of the changes will be needed anyway even for limited support |
| 13:14:11 | Spaetzchen | there stands only ONE sentense |
| 13:14:28 | Spaetzchen | but there doesn't stands how to use it |
| 13:14:34 | B4gder | DefineByte: if we find people with enough boredom in their lives, sure |
| 13:14:43 | Spaetzchen | and the background isn't there, too :( |
| 13:14:47 | linuxstb | preglow: Yes, I suspect that as well... |
| 13:14:50 | jhMikeS | preglow: that would be overkill even though I can conceive of a construction to make UI multithread safe with no bunches of mutexes. |
| 13:15:02 | DefineByte | there isn't a background by default |
| 13:15:08 | DefineByte | you have to add one |
| 13:15:12 | Spaetzchen | I downloaded a theme |
| 13:15:18 | Spaetzchen | and I installed it |
| 13:15:23 | DefineByte | where did you put it? |
| 13:15:23 | Spaetzchen | but I don't see it |
| 13:15:31 | Spaetzchen | in .rockbox |
| 13:15:32 | preglow | but just closing our eyes on dualcore sure as hell isn't a way to go if we ever want to support ipods properly |
| 13:15:37 | DefineByte | it may need patches |
| 13:15:38 | jhMikeS | there's certain places where avoiding threading actually makes for nasty workarounds. |
| 13:15:43 | DefineByte | what theme was it? |
| 13:15:46 | Spaetzchen | backdrops |
| 13:15:53 | Spaetzchen | WVA |
| 13:15:55 | pixelma | Spaetzchen: did you look into the "enabling speech support" paragraph in the installing section of the manual? |
| 13:16:04 | Spaetzchen | yes |
| 13:16:10 | Spaetzchen | I did what there stands |
| 13:16:30 | Spaetzchen | copy the file in the .rockbox/langs |
| 13:16:33 | Spaetzchen | I did this |
| 13:16:40 | B4gder | btw, we only have english voices for download |
| 13:16:48 | Spaetzchen | I know |
| 13:17:08 | pixelma | what file? |
| 13:17:29 | Spaetzchen | http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/VoiceFiles - here I found german |
| 13:17:33 | pixelma | where do you have it from? |
| 13:17:39 | jhMikeS | preglow: the dual core SPC code runs nicely with echo running on both cores simulataneously and it was just a quicky thing. |
| 13:17:57 | pixelma | Spaetzchen: those are outdated you can't use them currently |
| 13:18:12 | B4gder | ... as is mentioned on that very same page |
| 13:18:13 | Spaetzchen | oh |
| 13:18:19 | Spaetzchen | this isn't good :( |
| 13:18:21 | pixelma | (with a current build that is) |
| 13:19:04 | B4gder | as I said "we only have english voices for download" |
| 13:19:05 | jhMikeS | and one major factor in properly supporting such threading reliably is a proper kernel synchronization object set. |
| 13:19:14 | Spaetzchen | hm, outdated stands at the end of this page |
| 13:19:32 | B4gder | Spaetzchen: then start over from the top again |
| 13:19:40 | Spaetzchen | -start +stands |
| 13:19:44 | B4gder | especially this line: "Pick one of these if you are running an older daily build of Rockbox." |
| 13:19:48 | Spaetzchen | ach |
| 13:19:50 | jhMikeS | heck, good threading use even fixes the emulator slowness and it runs just like the real thing |
| 13:20:19 | | Quit class37 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 13:20:38 | Spaetzchen | mom, I'm searching someone who speaks english and german ;-) |
| 13:20:56 | preglow | proper sync primitives is a must anyway if you're going to use the other core at all |
| 13:21:11 | | Join webguest94 [0] (i=521d0260@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-193f5e7de276c43a) |
| 13:21:43 | DefineByte | http://www.rockbox.org/voices/sansae200-20070905-english.voice |
| 13:21:43 | pixelma | Spaetzchen: did you chose german as the language on your player? |
| 13:21:48 | DefineByte | you need this voice file |
| 13:21:56 | Spaetzchen | yes |
| 13:22:05 | Spaetzchen | and in the files I found on this site I showed |
| 13:22:08 | Spaetzchen | there stand |
| 13:22:09 | Spaetzchen | s |
| 13:22:14 | jhMikeS | one big one is thread_wait, but there's also semaphore and events. these benefit single-core as well by helping get rid of while(cond) yield() stuff that blows up all the time. |
| 13:22:22 | Spaetzchen | deutsch-lh-stefan-20060602.zip |
| 13:22:31 | Spaetzchen | and I downloaded this |
| 13:22:35 | DefineByte | that won't work |
| 13:22:49 | Spaetzchen | hm |
| 13:23:00 | Spaetzchen | only the englisch one? |
| 13:23:06 | DefineByte | yes |
| 13:23:13 | DefineByte | at the moment |
| 13:23:16 | Spaetzchen | and the english one talks only in english or tries he to speak german? ;-) |
| 13:23:21 | pixelma | Spaetzchen: you can only use the file DefineByte linked you to - only that one is currently available |
| 13:23:35 | B4gder | "we only have english voices for download" |
| 13:23:44 | B4gder | anyone notices the echo? |
| 13:23:50 | Spaetzchen | ok, the german one under this means what? |
| 13:23:50 | DefineByte | it's english or nothing currently |
| 13:24:16 | Spaetzchen | so the words are programmed or the letters? |
| 13:24:41 | pixelma | but if you want to try out voice in general as the start you can have the text shown on german and have it talking in english |
| 13:25:01 | jhMikeS | I'm constantly fixing bugs related to yield patterns that vary from target to target. That's where this cooperative stuff breaks down to preemtive behavior. You may consider a "suprise" yield to be equivalent to preemption. |
| 13:25:34 | | Quit Nimdae (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 13:25:57 | delYsid | ddalton: around? |
| 13:27:09 | ddalton | yes |
| 13:27:22 | ddalton | why? |
| 13:27:59 | pixelma | you would need to download the english voice file (as it says in the manual), copy it to your player at the appropriate place and rename it to deutsch.voice - then after a reboot and if you're really chose the "deutsch" language, it starts talking (in english) but at least you'll have the menus and so on in german |
| 13:28:16 | pixelma | (as text) |
| 13:28:25 | Spaetzchen | oki, mom, I try it |
| 13:28:53 | preglow | jhMikeS: i've still got a feeling pre-emptive multitasking will hamper us more than help us |
| 13:29:00 | DefineByte | what does mom mean by the way? |
| 13:29:41 | Spaetzchen | sorry, mom means in german Moment ;-) so I would like to say, wait a moment pls ;-) |
| 13:29:53 | DefineByte | :) |
| 13:30:37 | Spaetzchen | I downloaded it what Byte linked, but |
| 13:30:43 | Spaetzchen | I can't use it |
| 13:30:45 | amiconn | jhMikeS: whie(cond) yield(); is nasty anyway, unless the condition is only true for a very short time. Otherwise while(cond) sleep(1); is much much better |
| 13:30:58 | Spaetzchen | my program said that he can't find a program to use this file |
| 13:30:58 | | Quit webguest94 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 13:31:03 | jhMikeS | preglow: no worry, it's still cooperative per core |
| 13:32:05 | DefineByte | just put it in the right place. you dont do anything with it apart from renaming it |
| 13:32:14 | jhMikeS | amiconn: if it's multithreaded code, the condition may go true-false-true and no longer apply by the time the waiting thread runs again. |
| 13:32:22 | amiconn | (or better, sleep(0)) |
| 13:32:24 | delYsid | ddalton: regarding 7704, what do you think about just committing the stripped down patch you made? It doesnt have any impact on the english voice and/or lang file, just makes the talk functions available through plugin_api and splits out the talk_enum.h header. |
| 13:32:40 | delYsid | this way, plugins could at least do stuff like talk_number and talk_id if we do not need any additional strings. |
| 13:33:22 | jhMikeS | sleep(0) will equal yield() as anything I've programmed makes a zero delay a simple giving up of remaining CPU burst. |
| 13:35:14 | ddalton | I think it would be a good idea. Then we could just create a fix and commit that later. |
| 13:35:18 | jhMikeS | of course with these changes I'll evaluate all scheduler use globally. |
| 13:35:49 | delYsid | ddalton: great. |
| 13:36:15 | amiconn | sleep(0) should sleep until the end of the current tick, unless a bug got introduced |
| 13:37:03 | | Join Buschel [0] (n=AndreeBu@p54A3F99A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:37:10 | ddalton | Are you going to commit? |
| 13:37:11 | jhMikeS | sleep(1) would actually accomplish that since the end of the current tick is when the tick changes. |
| 13:37:32 | delYsid | ddalton: talk-plugin.diff looks simple enough anyway, can you commit it? |
| 13:37:34 | | Join GodEater_ [0] (n=bryan@rockbox/staff/GodEater) |
| 13:37:35 | Spaetzchen | ok, he speaks now with me in english ;-) |
| 13:37:52 | DefineByte | you got there eventually :) |
| 13:38:06 | ddalton | I don't have svn access |
| 13:38:18 | delYsid | ddalton: ah, IC. thought you had. |
| 13:38:34 | ddalton | have you got it? |
| 13:38:40 | delYsid | no :-) |
| 13:38:43 | jhMikeS | amiconn: unless you want to round up so that sleep(x) could sleep x+1 ticks |
| 13:38:44 | delYsid | rasher: ? :-) |
| 13:39:04 | ddalton | can you code? |
| 13:39:04 | amiconn | jhMikeS: It used to do that... |
| 13:39:11 | Spaetzchen | so now I did the right thing to install the speech? I have the german settings and the english voice for this, is this right now? |
| 13:39:30 | delYsid | ddalton: me? I wrote this patch, yes... |
| 13:39:50 | jhMikeS | yeah, not really proper imo. if you want to sleep x+1 ticks, why not write sleep(x+1) ? |
| 13:39:54 | | Join akaias [0] (n=akaias@c-67-175-173-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 13:39:58 | DefineByte | yes, that's right. it's the best you can do at the mom :) |
| 13:40:18 | Spaetzchen | coooooool, thx a lot |
| 13:40:26 | Spaetzchen | and now to my second problem ;-) |
| 13:40:29 | Spaetzchen | the themes ;-) |
| 13:40:38 | ddalton | ok can you fix p7705 if you have time? It adds voice for battery bench but I would like to see how you check if voice menus is enabled. I don't really have time to update |
| 13:41:06 | delYsid | rb->voice_menus_enabled() |
| 13:41:09 | ddalton | delYsid: so how should the voice file be done do you think? |
| 13:41:14 | amiconn | jhMikeS: It's just nasty to change behaviour in that way if it was different before |
| 13:41:18 | ddalton | in an if? |
| 13:41:27 | ddalton | if (what you said before) |
| 13:41:40 | amiconn | I think some of the newer problems might be due to this behaviour change |
| 13:41:42 | delYsid | ddalton: yes. |
| 13:41:47 | ddalton | so if(rb->voice_menus_enabled()) |
| 13:41:58 | jhMikeS | there was no behavior change in SVN |
| 13:41:59 | delYsid | yes |
| 13:42:06 | ddalton | ok how should we do the voice file do you think? |
| 13:42:19 | delYsid | ddalton: no idea yet :-( |
| 13:42:51 | delYsid | but getting 7704 (the tsecond patch) committed would be a first step to get things moving. |
| 13:42:53 | ddalton | I see what your saying about using strings from english.lang but I think we could just re do them in plugin.voice for example |
| 13:43:02 | delYsid | but I have no idea yet how to code the secondary voice file thing |
| 13:43:09 | ddalton | yep and then write the fix |
| 13:43:27 | delYsid | yes |
| 13:43:37 | jhMikeS | I employed the change in a later revision my code. I thing most code assumes sleep(10) means "sleep 100ms" not 110ms. |
| 13:44:00 | Spaetzchen | I tried to take the WVA-theme into my player, but it doesn't work |
| 13:44:01 | DefineByte | what's the name of the theme you installed, Spaetzchen? |
| 13:44:29 | amiconn | jhMikeS: There was. At least back in times of the simple round-robin scheduler, sleep(0) slept until the end of the current tick |
| 13:44:42 | DefineByte | what's the name of the theme you installed, Spaetzchen? |
| 13:45:04 | amiconn | jhMikeS: 100 or 110ms, both won't be exact |
| 13:45:08 | Spaetzchen | WVA |
| 13:45:26 | delYsid | ddalton: but I think we will need a secondary voice file and load both (the english.voice and plugin.voice), because there is potentially a lot of duplication. Think about talk_number or talk_value |
| 13:45:29 | amiconn | The old behaviour let it sleep for 100..110ms, current svn lets it sleep for 90..100ms instead |
| 13:45:30 | DefineByte | didn't mean to post that twice |
| 13:45:31 | DefineByte | :o |
| 13:45:31 | jhMikeS | This revision is snappy. Thread wakeups never wait. Latencies are cut |
| 13:45:50 | Spaetzchen | http://www.rockbox-themes.org/index.php?res=176x220x16 |
| 13:45:58 | Spaetzchen | I found it there |
| 13:46:04 | Spaetzchen | u asked for the theme ;-) |
| 13:46:06 | jhMikeS | amiconn: I remember seeing tick = current_tick + 1 in current SVN |
| 13:46:22 | amiconn | jhMikeS: I'm referring to the tick granularity |
| 13:46:46 | jhMikeS | how would that have changed? |
| 13:47:09 | DefineByte | that theme should work on the standard build |
| 13:47:20 | ddalton | I got to go but maybe plugin.voice and then we do something like lang v2 and if certain players don't have certain plugins there will be less clips. |
| 13:47:27 | ddalton | Probably to many voice files! |
| 13:48:04 | ddalton | so just plugin.voice for all targets maybe and then we just add everything in to that for the plugins including the numbers |
| 13:48:07 | DefineByte | Spaetzchen: how did you install it? |
| 13:48:11 | ddalton | and letres |
| 13:48:12 | jhMikeS | 100 should actually be 95-105 ms and average 100 over the long term |
| 13:49:11 | jhMikeS | btw: round-robin is a term used for preemtive multitasking. the correct term is FCFS (first-come-first-serve). </pedantic> |
| 13:49:12 | amiconn | No, it's not |
| 13:49:22 | | Quit ddalton ("leaving") |
| 13:49:37 | amiconn | It enters sleep state anywhere within a tick period, but always wakes up at a tick period boundary |
| 13:49:54 | Spaetzchen | hm, I can't remember, I think I dezipped it in the sansa |
| 13:50:14 | amiconn | And you're right, the +1 is still there so sleep(0) works as I expected |
| 13:50:23 | DefineByte | where? in the root? |
| 13:50:36 | Spaetzchen | in .rockbox |
| 13:50:37 | DefineByte | and then you selected it in 'browse themes'? |
| 13:50:41 | DefineByte | no |
| 13:50:46 | DefineByte | not there |
| 13:50:50 | Spaetzchen | hm |
| 13:51:03 | | Quit advcomp2019 ("Leaving") |
| 13:51:20 | DefineByte | unzio it to the same place you unzipped rockbox |
| 13:51:33 | DefineByte | unzip/ |
| 13:51:46 | Spaetzchen | yes, I unzipped it in J: |
| 13:51:50 | Spaetzchen | this is my player |
| 13:51:59 | DefineByte | well that's right then |
| 13:52:07 | Spaetzchen | sorry, I'm a little bit confused ;) |
| 13:52:17 | Spaetzchen | but it doesn't work |
| 13:52:26 | jhMikeS | the processor may wake at the tick period boundary, but the thread may have threads ahead of it doing something but that's usually a couple ms delay tops for a turnaround. |
| 13:52:30 | DefineByte | did you select it in 'browse themes' (or the german equivelent)? |
| 13:53:02 | DefineByte | equivalent/ |
| 13:53:15 | Spaetzchen | I don't know where it is |
| 13:53:24 | Spaetzchen | I think I took it in .rockbox/themes |
| 13:54:01 | jhMikeS | The scheduler still executes ready to run tasks in FCFS order if priority isn't involved. just thread->next since the linked lists are circular. |
| 13:54:39 | | Quit PaulJam (".") |
| 13:55:02 | pixelma | Spaetzchen: what did happen - did at least something change (background, icons)? |
| 13:55:28 | Spaetzchen | not really ;) |
| 13:55:50 | LinusN | Spaetzchen: did you unzip it to J:\ or J:\.rockbox\themes? |
| 13:56:03 | Spaetzchen | I didn't changed the names, I only changed the picture in background - but the same sizes |
| 13:56:31 | Spaetzchen | I don't remember, but I think I unzipped it in J:\.rockbox ;-) |
| 13:56:38 | LinusN | that is wrong |
| 13:56:51 | LinusN | you are supposed to unzip it to J:\ |
| 13:57:04 | DefineByte | Spaetzchen: do you have WVA.cfg in .rockbox/themes? |
| 13:57:28 | | Quit GodEater_ (Connection timed out) |
| 13:58:03 | Spaetzchen | yes I have this file in themes |
| 13:59:18 | DefineByte | can you go to "General Settings > Display > Browse .wps files" and slect it |
| 13:59:32 | DefineByte | select it |
| 13:59:48 | Spaetzchen | in the player without or with computer? |
| 13:59:59 | DefineByte | in the player |
| 14:00 |
| 14:00:15 | DefineByte | disconnected from the computer |
| 14:02:22 | Spaetzchen | I've only iCatcher, rockbox_default, Rockboxed and UniCatcher |
| 14:02:26 | Spaetzchen | which one? |
| 14:03:03 | DefineByte | they're the default themes. you don't want any of those |
| 14:03:44 | DefineByte | from the main menu go to browse themes |
| 14:03:50 | DefineByte | is it their? |
| 14:04:04 | | Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) |
| 14:04:42 | Spaetzchen | where I can find default themes? |
| 14:04:43 | | Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 14:05:10 | DefineByte | can you go to 'Browse Themes' in the main menu first |
| 14:05:58 | pixelma | Einstellungen > Zeige Themen ;) |
| 14:06:11 | DefineByte | :D |
| 14:06:16 | Spaetzchen | aaaaaah, thx, pixel :-) |
| 14:06:28 | Spaetzchen | ok, I found this |
| 14:06:32 | jhMikeS | amiconn: another thing I changed is that packed statearg. timeouts will be the full 32 bits as expected and state kept is a separate byte which all the processors efficiently can load and extend. |
| 14:06:36 | Spaetzchen | and I took WV |
| 14:06:37 | Spaetzchen | A |
| 14:06:38 | | Join Genre9mp3 [0] (n=yngwiejo@rockbox/contributor/Genre9mp3) |
| 14:06:43 | Spaetzchen | but nothing new |
| 14:06:52 | DefineByte | play a song |
| 14:07:09 | DefineByte | and it should show |
| 14:07:11 | Spaetzchen | I've no songs on it ;-) |
| 14:07:27 | DefineByte | you'll have to wait then :p |
| 14:07:37 | Spaetzchen | mom, I try ;-) |
| 14:08:03 | B4gder | Spaetzchen: mom is short for mother in english |
| 14:08:18 | DefineByte | american english/ |
| 14:08:42 | B4gder | well, we're all americanized outside britain anyway |
| 14:08:44 | pixelma | well that theme has also a different look in the browsers and menus if it's not broken somehow |
| 14:09:05 | DefineByte | i'm inside britain! x) |
| 14:09:19 | B4gder | DefineByte: you use use 'mom' as short for "one moment" ? |
| 14:09:28 | pixelma | and I've never used "mom" in german for Moment ... |
| 14:09:30 | DefineByte | no |
| 14:09:33 | DefineByte | i don't |
| 14:09:39 | B4gder | I didn't think so either |
| 14:09:47 | Spaetzchen | sorry ;-) |
| 14:09:48 | jhMikeS | amiconn: bringing things back in my code to the usual sleep behavior is just about 3 lines change if that's preferred. |
| 14:09:52 | Spaetzchen | I'm too german ;-) |
| 14:09:59 | Spaetzchen | so I took 3 songs on the player |
| 14:10:06 | Spaetzchen | BUT I don't know where to find |
| 14:10:13 | B4gder | Spaetzchen: pixelma happens to be german too... |
| 14:10:24 | DefineByte | where did you put them? |
| 14:10:37 | pixelma | maybe regional differences ;) |
| 14:10:52 | B4gder | or age? :-) |
| 14:11:02 | Spaetzchen | I put it in music |
| 14:11:04 | DefineByte | hey, maybe he's swiss |
| 14:11:11 | DefineByte | did he say he was german? |
| 14:11:16 | Spaetzchen | I can understand swiss :) |
| 14:11:18 | DefineByte | anyway... :) |
| 14:11:55 | DefineByte | then from the main menu go to 'files' (or whatever it is in german) and browse to the files |
| 14:12:02 | pixelma | for what it's worth, that theme works fine in a Sansa simulator here... |
| 14:12:20 | DefineByte | hey, it's got to be worth something |
| 14:12:37 | B4gder | given the track history, I bet Spaetzchen only tell us half of what he actually does |
| 14:12:52 | B4gder | ... so this will never work |
| 14:12:55 | Spaetzchen | not he, she ;-) |
| 14:13:12 | Spaetzchen | I have no music in "files" |
| 14:13:12 | B4gder | sorry, didn't spot that! ;-) |
| 14:13:26 | pixelma | a male would probably not pick that nick ;) |
| 14:13:34 | Spaetzchen | hihi |
| 14:13:48 | B4gder | well, my german is... eh, lacking a bit |
| 14:13:48 | DefineByte | we'd probably have to speak german to know that xD |
| 14:13:50 | Spaetzchen | but I can't find the music |
| 14:13:56 | Spaetzchen | LOL |
| 14:14:09 | DefineByte | you didn't put the music in .rockbox did you? |
| 14:14:12 | Spaetzchen | hm |
| 14:14:18 | Spaetzchen | under root I found it |
| 14:14:33 | Spaetzchen | and there is no theme, no picture, nothing :( |
| 14:14:46 | * | B4gder offers DefineByte the "I have patience of steel" badge to wear for the rest of the day |
| 14:14:52 | | Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p54BD2AAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:15:01 | DerPapst | good morning :) |
| 14:15:21 | DefineByte | thanks *attaches badge with pride* |
| 14:15:27 | * | petur yawns |
| 14:15:31 | Spaetzchen | and now? |
| 14:15:57 | DefineByte | one mom (x)) |
| 14:16:02 | Spaetzchen | hihi |
| 14:16:08 | Spaetzchen | yes I have only one mom ;-) |
| 14:17:08 | pixelma | Spaetzchen: I don't know I had no problem with that theme - just unzipped it to the root (of the simulator in my case) and selected it through "browse themes" - there it was |
| 14:18:17 | Spaetzchen | ok, how can I delete these theme and install it again? |
| 14:18:57 | | Join Kupopop [0] (n=Jono@cpc1-bsfd2-0-0-cust26.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) |
| 14:18:58 | DefineByte | do you have a directory called .rockbox IN .rockbox? |
| 14:19:04 | * | B4gder calls for theme support in rbutil... |
| 14:19:10 | DefineByte | yes |
| 14:19:29 | DefineByte | it would be great if you could drag a theme onto rbutil and it automatically installs |
| 14:19:50 | pixelma | the directory you put the music in - is that the "Music" directory that the Sansa original uses (I seem to vaguely remember that this one is marked hidden by default, could be wrong though) |
| 14:19:53 | Spaetzchen | yes for women like me ;-) |
| 14:20:03 | B4gder | DefineByte: I believe it'll even interact with the theme site to allow downloads etc |
| 14:20:04 | dionoea | doesn't rb util already install themes ? |
| 14:20:21 | Spaetzchen | no there is no rockbox in rockbox |
| 14:20:25 | tumu | sansa finds music on any directories |
| 14:20:31 | tumu | just tested it few hours ago |
| 14:20:32 | jhMikeS | preglow: do you feel it's better to have 1% of the code sophisticated to make 99% of the code simpler or the other way? Sometime I get the impression the other way is preferred here. I also point to queue_send which paid for itself at twice over in bin size when first added. |
| 14:20:40 | DefineByte | no idea where you may have out it then |
| 14:21:31 | DefineByte | put/ |
| 14:21:39 | pixelma | Spaetzchen: you have to be accurate: is there a "rockbox" or a ".rockbox" directory there - the . at the beginning is important |
| 14:21:46 | | Join norbusan [0] (n=norbusan@pnsgw1-client208.demo.tuwien.ac.at) |
| 14:22:17 | Spaetzchen | its called .rockbox with ... |
| 14:22:28 | | Part norbusan |
| 14:23:05 | | Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (n=hihi@p54BF518E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:23:37 | pixelma | hmm... should be alright then - and inside it there are other directories like "themes", "wps", "fonts" and "backdrops"? |
| 14:23:45 | DefineByte | as far as rbutil's theme installation; i'd still like to be able to drag themes onto it. if only to qucikly test my own (outside the sim :)) |
| 14:23:56 | Spaetzchen | yes |
| 14:24:25 | B4gder | DefineByte: I'm sure your contributions to bring that feature will be appreciated! |
| 14:24:41 | DefineByte | i'm sure they would be :D |
| 14:24:53 | pixelma | Spaetzchen: and in "backdrops" for example, is there a "WVA.bmp"? |
| 14:25:00 | Spaetzchen | yes :) |
| 14:25:34 | DefineByte | is WVA.wps and a WVA folder in '.rockbox/wps'? |
| 14:25:42 | | Nick idnar_ is now known as idnar (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar) |
| 14:25:55 | DefineByte | see, this is the kind of stuff i want rbutil to generate a lsupport ticket for xD |
| 14:26:07 | | Quit Hellmark ("Leaving") |
| 14:27:47 | DefineByte | i guess rbutil could verify the directory structure itself. |
| 14:28:06 | Spaetzchen | LOL |
| 14:28:07 | Spaetzchen | no |
| 14:28:43 | Spaetzchen | now it is in there :) |
| 14:28:59 | DefineByte | how on earth did you install it? |
| 14:29:00 | Spaetzchen | reboot |
| 14:29:08 | DefineByte | sounds like you didn't just unzip it |
| 14:29:10 | Spaetzchen | huiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii |
| 14:29:30 | Spaetzchen | I unzipped it, but only in the player ;-) |
| 14:29:35 | Spaetzchen | not the right way :) |
| 14:29:41 | Spaetzchen | but now it's there :) |
| 14:29:45 | Spaetzchen | thxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx |
| 14:29:59 | DefineByte | and all the other files are in the right place too? |
| 14:30:17 | Spaetzchen | I think so |
| 14:30:48 | DefineByte | there should be 4 files in .rockbox/icons |
| 14:31:17 | Spaetzchen | I'll look :) |
| 14:31:30 | DefineByte | tango_small.bmp |
| 14:31:30 | DefineByte | tango_small_viewers.bmp |
| 14:31:30 | DefineByte | tango_small_viewers.icons |
| 14:31:30 | DBUG | Enqueued KICK DefineByte |
| 14:31:30 | DefineByte | and tango_small_viewers.icons |
| 14:32:25 | | Join linuxstb_ [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 14:32:49 | Spaetzchen | I've only one in icons |
| 14:32:57 | Spaetzchen | its called viewers |
| 14:33:30 | DefineByte | unzip WVA.zip again |
| 14:33:41 | Spaetzchen | ok, now I have everything in it :) |
| 14:33:54 | DefineByte | unzip .rockbox in WVA.zip into the root directory (j:) |
| 14:35:14 | Spaetzchen | I unzipped it again in J: |
| 14:35:30 | DefineByte | and can you select it? |
| 14:35:51 | Spaetzchen | mom, reboot |
| 14:35:55 | Ctcp | Ignored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood |
| 14:35:55 | * | DerPapst just returned from dinner... |
| 14:35:56 | Spaetzchen | sorry ;-) |
| 14:36:02 | DerPapst | accepted |
| 14:36:04 | Spaetzchen | sec, reboot ;-) |
| 14:36:49 | Spaetzchen | yes |
| 14:36:53 | Spaetzchen | now it looks good :) |
| 14:37:09 | DefineByte | so you're all sorted? that's great |
| 14:38:00 | | Join MarkVeinot [0] (n=vmark@fctnnbsc16w-142166033020.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net) |
| 14:38:22 | Spaetzchen | yes, it lookes very good, thank you all a lot ;-) |
| 14:38:31 | Spaetzchen | but I've a little question at the end ;-) |
| 14:38:39 | DefineByte | xD |
| 14:38:59 | Spaetzchen | my display goes out after 5 sec |
| 14:39:10 | DerPapst | you mean the backlight? |
| 14:39:11 | Spaetzchen | where can I change this? |
| 14:39:14 | preglow | jhMikeS: i feel it's only natural for a project the size of rockbox to have code not everybody understands at first glance anyway |
| 14:39:15 | Spaetzchen | yes |
| 14:39:24 | MarkVeinot | Is there a location to download the latest builds of the sansa bootloader? I would like to take advantage of the reduced USB timeout that was introduced yesterday. |
| 14:39:27 | pixelma | Spaetzchen: try to search for the backlight settings in the manual ;) |
| 14:39:30 | DefineByte | settings>display>lcd i think |
| 14:39:32 | preglow | it's not like anyone here could jump in bugfix the eq in five minutes |
| 14:39:39 | DerPapst | einstellungen > ... dunno |
| 14:39:42 | DerPapst | :P |
| 14:40:17 | DefineByte | but you want it to turn off or it will use a lot of the battery |
| 14:40:38 | pixelma | Einstellungen > Grundeinstellungen > Anzeige > LCD-Einstellungen > Beleuchtung |
| 14:40:55 | Spaetzchen | thx :) |
| 14:40:58 | DefineByte | that's what i said.... ^^ |
| 14:41:02 | Spaetzchen | not its perfect |
| 14:41:08 | jhMikeS | preglow: indeed...I'd include myself in that category...and as a supplement to that, I wouldn't attempt to bugfix the eq without knowing it inside-out first. |
| 14:41:13 | Spaetzchen | thank you a lot |
| 14:41:16 | linuxstb_ | preglow: True, but eq is different - it's one feature that nothing else depends on. If the worst came to the worst, we couldjust rmeove it from Rockbox. We couldn't do that with the kernel, (or playback.c, etc) |
| 14:41:26 | Spaetzchen | now I can to to work :-) |
| 14:41:37 | DefineByte | enjoy Rockbox Spaetzchen |
| 14:41:40 | Spaetzchen | thanks a lot and I hope I see you all again :) |
| 14:41:41 | Spaetzchen | thx :) |
| 14:41:46 | DerPapst | you go to work at 14:50? |
| 14:41:50 | DerPapst | heh |
| 14:41:58 | pixelma | and read the manual a bit |
| 14:41:59 | Spaetzchen | no, at 15:30 |
| 14:42:09 | DerPapst | heh |
| 14:42:10 | Spaetzchen | and I must go in 20 mins |
| 14:42:12 | preglow | linuxstb_: true, but we're approaching a point where we _have_ to add some complexity to it in order for rockbox to expand in the same way it has |
| 14:42:19 | DerPapst | have fun ;) |
| 14:42:20 | Spaetzchen | thx and cu :-) |
| 14:42:23 | DefineByte | the manual could be a big problem for non-english speakers |
| 14:42:24 | Spaetzchen | thx :) |
| 14:42:25 | preglow | we can't just count on never seeing another dual core cpu |
| 14:42:28 | DefineByte | bye |
| 14:42:30 | linuxstb_ | preglow: Also, I think we should learn from past failings - there are lots of bits of Rockbox which are in effect unmaintained. All I'm saying is that we should do whatever we can to avoid that situation getting worse. |
| 14:42:31 | | Quit Spaetzchen ("CGI:IRC (EOF)") |
| 14:42:36 | jhMikeS | linuxstb_: but the DSP couldn't be removed for sure. adding the ASM limited the number of possible maintainers but the benefits were outstanding. |
| 14:43:18 | preglow | linuxstb_: again true, but i don't think keeping everything so dead simple everyone can understand it is a good solution |
| 14:43:21 | preglow | that way lies horrible hacks |
| 14:43:29 | | Quit aliask ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007073113]") |
| 14:43:49 | | Quit GodEater ("CGI:IRC") |
| 14:43:52 | jhMikeS | preglow: precisely, the hacks that add the complexity and bugs to the other 99% |
| 14:43:57 | | Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection) |
| 14:43:59 | linuxstb_ | I don't think we disagree - I'm just saying any complexity needs to be justified. |
| 14:44:00 | preglow | yeah |
| 14:44:11 | preglow | and i think you're right in rockbox having a bit too many of them too :/ |
| 14:44:31 | preglow | sure, and i don't think you can get any more justified than "good dual core support" |
| 14:44:33 | | Quit ptw419 () |
| 14:44:56 | * | jhMikeS say: (K)eep (I)t (S)imple (S)tupid (M)aybe (Y)et (A)s (S)implicity (S)uffices :D |
| 14:45:05 | preglow | hahahaha |
| 14:45:30 | preglow | a bit on the fancy side of semantics :> |
| 14:46:02 | jhMikeS | :P |
| 14:48:24 | preglow | but anyway, i would be surprised if the majority of jhMikeS' patch isn't just stuff that already should be familiar to any os level programmer |
| 14:49:09 | preglow | my biggest worry is quite frankly that we're going dual core on a chip we have no documentation for |
| 14:50:11 | jhMikeS | the biggest headache has been the cache actually...but it seems that overlapping cache lines is the reason. |
| 14:50:28 | linuxstb_ | jhMikeS: What's the state of your dual-core work? Is the failure of the PP5020 to play fair still holding things up? |
| 14:50:29 | preglow | overlapping cache lines??? |
| 14:50:53 | jhMikeS | linuxstb_: yes...that's it. it runs and passes the tests on e200 |
| 14:51:19 | | Join Febs [0] (n=chatzill@38.98.196.75) |
| 14:51:21 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 14:51:29 | linuxstb_ | jhMikeS: And you still don't have a 5020 to test on? |
| 14:51:50 | jhMikeS | preglow: when processor A has it's own copy of an address range that B also has a it's own copy of but they've each modified or read that range in their own way at different times. |
| 14:52:01 | jhMikeS | linuxstb_: one should be coming up. |
| 14:52:16 | preglow | i don't get how the hell you find out what the hell is wrong with stuff like this :P |
| 14:52:31 | jhMikeS | preglow: guess? |
| 14:52:35 | preglow | i would have scratched my ass for about a week, then given up |
| 14:52:51 | B4gder | jhMikeS is a secret PP employee working under cover here |
| 14:52:55 | jhMikeS | hehe |
| 14:53:12 | linuxstb_ | One that's lost the PP5020 datasheet and only has the PP5022? |
| 14:53:12 | tumu | tainting rockbox with IP |
| 14:53:24 | jhMikeS | I theorize for weeks and an answer usually pops in my head when I'm outside smoking |
| 14:53:35 | B4gder | luckily, the rest of us are FBI agents under cover trying to find the actual rockbox devs |
| 14:53:51 | amiconn | preglow: The overlapping cache lines issue is pretty obvious once you found it to be the reason |
| 14:54:01 | * | jhMikeS is CIA and Secret Service with Top Secret clearance |
| 14:54:23 | preglow | then you can find mrh for us and force him to code for free 24/7? :> |
| 14:54:34 | jhMikeS | ...and possesses an alien scanning device found at the Roswell crash site |
| 14:54:46 | preglow | what, sansa doesn't support microsdhc ? |
| 14:54:57 | preglow | how cool :P |
| 14:55:04 | B4gder | hehe, yes |
| 14:55:14 | jhMikeS | hehe...but we don't don't either ... because we have no hologram sticker |
| 14:55:26 | preglow | that's just weird, i would have thought they'd be jumping at coding support for that |
| 14:55:43 | B4gder | preglow: they probably rather force people to buy a new player for it |
| 14:55:53 | preglow | do they have any? |
| 14:56:02 | B4gder | yes i think so, at least in the pipe |
| 14:56:13 | preglow | orly |
| 14:56:40 | DefineByte | how easy is it to get hold of a machine cabable of producing holograms? |
| 14:56:46 | jhMikeS | if we paint SDHC on the side of the players by the slot, it will be official and commence to operate properly |
| 14:56:53 | DefineByte | capable/ |
| 14:57:22 | preglow | a business idea presents itself! we should demand users buy stickers in order to use feature upgrades! |
| 14:57:25 | DefineByte | maybe the player can sense whether the sticker is official or not |
| 14:57:26 | jhMikeS | if you can build a scanning/tunneling microscope from legos, I'm sure one could be fabricated in the kitchen (I really think so) |
| 14:57:33 | preglow | a gapless playback sticker, an eq sticker, an mpegplayer sticker... |
| 14:57:52 | jhMikeS | lol...I'm sure rb will need quite a set of them |
| 14:57:52 | DefineByte | crossfeed sticker please |
| 14:58:55 | jhMikeS | hey, it's a way to bring funds in and make player updates official |
| 15:00 |
| 15:01:37 | preglow | i'm a genious! |
| 15:01:42 | | Join RudMan [0] (n=RudMan@167.206.188.130) |
| 15:02:07 | * | DerPapst wants a sticker too |
| 15:02:21 | | Quit iamben (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 15:02:47 | DerPapst | a long battery life one please :) |
| 15:02:57 | DefineByte | with an iPod crossed out |
| 15:03:15 | preglow | a sticker for mp3 players would actually be kind of cool :> |
| 15:03:29 | DefineByte | i'd buy one |
| 15:03:43 | preglow | like one covering the entire back of this smudged up nano i have |
| 15:04:12 | DefineByte | i'd like one for my portable amp too |
| 15:04:52 | DefineByte | rockbox should open a cafepress store or something |
| 15:05:11 | jhMikeS | you know, I don't get why a multiprocessor config would need multiple caches. using one shared one would always be coherent among all said processors. |
| 15:05:30 | krazykit | DefineByte, http://www.cafepress.com/rockboxfirmware |
| 15:05:43 | preglow | jhMikeS: yet they almost never are configured like that |
| 15:05:50 | DefineByte | is that official? |
| 15:05:59 | krazykit | yes |
| 15:06:05 | krazykit | read the announcements forum ;-) |
| 15:06:19 | preglow | now all we need is a prettier logo :> |
| 15:06:20 | DefineByte | bah, read? |
| 15:06:52 | DefineByte | run a competition |
| 15:07:00 | DefineByte | win a gigabeat |
| 15:07:03 | DefineByte | or sansa |
| 15:07:06 | DefineByte | or something |
| 15:07:08 | DerPapst | heh |
| 15:07:15 | amiconn | The current logo is fine imo, I wouldn't want another |
| 15:07:26 | jhMikeS | preglow: unless they bus snoop, they should be. less conflict would exist. ok, patent application goes out tomorrow. ;) |
| 15:07:28 | DefineByte | okay old man, stuck in his ways |
| 15:07:29 | Kupopop | I like the logo |
| 15:07:29 | DerPapst | or a daily rockbox update guarantie |
| 15:08:08 | | Join iamben [0] (n=ben@dpc67142179038.direcpc.com) |
| 15:08:15 | DerPapst | *warranty :P |
| 15:08:24 | linuxstb_ | "We guarantee this Rockbox was made freshly this morning" |
| 15:08:31 | preglow | jhMikeS: i think the newer multicore amds have a shared level 3 cache, but that's the only shared cache i know of in multicore design |
| 15:08:47 | DerPapst | linuxstb_: exactly :D |
| 15:09:07 | DefineByte | "We guarantee this Rockbox was probably made freshly this morning" |
| 15:09:12 | DefineByte | be careful there |
| 15:09:32 | linuxstb_ | I forgot to add "... or your money back." |
| 15:09:43 | Zagor | using only organic whole-grain bits |
| 15:09:52 | DefineByte | how about 110% refund? |
| 15:09:56 | DerPapst | it should be possible t do at least one commit per day.. even if it's only code policeing ;) |
| 15:10:16 | jhMikeS | preglow: as long as they're closely packed on the same die I can't imaging it should be much trouble. I wonder if it's easy to mirror-image a circuit on a wafer and have it function identically. |
| 15:11:14 | JdGordon | DerPapst: that means 3 per day... 1 commit and 2 oops ones :) |
| 15:11:19 | DefineByte | that cafepress link should be on the frontpage. (it isn't, right x)) |
| 15:11:30 | DerPapst | haha |
| 15:12:14 | DefineByte | the mug looks quite good. |
| 15:12:16 | * | jhMikeS is getting too far out right now |
| 15:12:31 | linuxstb_ | JdGordon: Any progress with your e200tool experiments, or are you doing other things? |
| 15:12:43 | JdGordon | about to have a nother go.. |
| 15:13:00 | austriancoder | JdGordon: what experiments? |
| 15:13:05 | * | JdGordon is more tired and less sober than last night, so doesnt expect much :p |
| 15:13:17 | * | linuxstb_ points austriancoder to all the e200r discussions over the past few days |
| 15:13:17 | JdGordon | austriancoder: trying to get something safer for e200r |
| 15:13:21 | jhMikeS | preglow: out of nescessity, the sim threading will function identically to core threading...blocking and all. it could even be used as a simplified reference to the kernel. |
| 15:13:26 | DefineByte | if a beer glass ias added i'm there |
| 15:13:33 | DefineByte | is/ |
| 15:14:17 | linuxstb_ | austriancoder: Basically, JdGordon is working on an application to be uploaded via e200tool in manufacturer mode which will patch the bootloader stored on disk. That part of the disk is hidden via Sansa's UMS driver. |
| 15:14:44 | austriancoder | linuxstb_: ahh ... i see |
| 15:15:29 | | Quit Nick_Brackley ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.5/0000000000]") |
| 15:15:35 | preglow | jhMikeS: hmm, that makes me wonder, shouldn't we really be having more bugs with the sim due to the pre-emptive multitasking? |
| 15:15:48 | jhMikeS | threads are serialized there |
| 15:16:09 | preglow | explain :> |
| 15:16:32 | jhMikeS | basically it simulates cooperative multitasking by running preemptive threads in turn |
| 15:16:50 | preglow | is that so |
| 15:16:56 | jhMikeS | sure is |
| 15:17:21 | MarkVeinot | Is there a location to download the latest builds of the sansa bootloader? |
| 15:17:22 | JdGordon | linuxstb_: good news... dont know if you read before about my testing method... but with ata_init() i get 2 different flashing speeds which means we might be lucky :) |
| 15:17:50 | amiconn | preglow: It has always been like that |
| 15:18:06 | jhMikeS | but one thing in the sim should run preemtively: the disk io. I have a following update for that and the sim runs so much better. It sort of acts like it has a DMA channel. |
| 15:18:53 | preglow | i would welcome the sim running better, i want to use it as my main music player |
| 15:18:56 | preglow | but it's too sluggish here |
| 15:19:06 | linuxstb_ | JdGordon: Is this with my original 2 changes applied? |
| 15:19:12 | JdGordon | yes |
| 15:19:35 | linuxstb_ | JdGordon: I only briefly looked at the Sansa ata_init(), but can it actually fail? |
| 15:19:37 | jhMikeS | it employs yielding within rockbox threads while an IO does the read/write at the same time. huge improvement. |
| 15:19:46 | preglow | JdGordon: ata_init()? what're you working on? |
| 15:19:55 | qwm | any seeking in mpegplayer yet? |
| 15:19:57 | JdGordon | linuxstb_: dunno.. but at least its running which is one up on this morning |
| 15:20:15 | linuxstb_ | How big is bootloader.bin now? |
| 15:21:00 | JdGordon | 40048 bytes |
| 15:21:23 | jhMikeS | preglow: all the lag during disk access just goes away, mpegplayer plays video smoothly at all times and such...so this whole patch is really just kernel improvement in general |
| 15:21:33 | linuxstb_ | JdGordon: Sounds promising. Hopefully we can go all the way up to 112KB (from 40004000 to the end of IRAM) if we need to. |
| 15:21:46 | jhMikeS | but the IO updates would be committed separately since it's sort of outside the scope |
| 15:21:56 | DerPapst | i wonder.... afaik rockbox doesn't allow anonymous contributions.... what is about the e200tool if JdGordon succeeds? |
| 15:22:16 | linuxstb_ | JdGordon: Ideally we would want to append the Rockbox bootloader mi4 to the code you're uploading, so the app can do the sansapatcher stuff as well. But that's definitely for v2. |
| 15:22:45 | JdGordon | DerPapst: its not doing anything special.. its just using libusb so should be easy to reimplement... |
| 15:22:58 | DerPapst | ok. |
| 15:23:04 | jhMikeS | preglow: changes to most files are just tiny compatibility changes (like a rename from struct event to struct queue_event to make way for actual event sync primitives) |
| 15:23:09 | | Part DefineByte |
| 15:23:34 | DerPapst | or MrH decides to pick some random name :P |
| 15:24:55 | jhMikeS | preglow: the sim could probabaly compile and use the actual rockbox kernel the way it's set up |
| 15:24:58 | preglow | yes, i look forward to the day Eiben Scrood commits code |
| 15:25:19 | preglow | jhMikeS: would be nifty :) |
| 15:25:51 | jhMikeS | thread.c of course not shared - too much SDL stuff |
| 15:27:12 | * | jhMikeS will now shut up since everyone must be bored with threads now :) |
| 15:27:45 | JdGordon | ATA works :D |
| 15:27:58 | * | JdGordon just booted rockbox from manufac mode |
| 15:28:25 | JdGordon | which promptly rebooted because it found the usb connection :p |
| 15:28:44 | DerPapst | hehe |
| 15:28:45 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: how much worked as pasted? or how much didn't? |
| 15:28:54 | | Quit MarkVeinot (Remote closed the connection) |
| 15:28:58 | JdGordon | using svn ata-e200.c |
| 15:29:05 | jhMikeS | ah |
| 15:30:02 | jhMikeS | thought it required to be size-reduced |
| 15:30:03 | preglow | what're you doing? |
| 15:30:20 | linuxstb_ | JdGordon: ;) |
| 15:30:31 | | Quit CaptainSquid ("Miranda IM!") |
| 15:30:51 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: we were mislead by the asm from e200tool... |
| 15:31:06 | JdGordon | so we dont appear to have it that problem again just yet |
| 15:31:27 | JdGordon | preglow: trying to get a safe install method for the e200r |
| 15:31:48 | * | jhMikeS puts an SDHC sticker on e200-tool |
| 15:35:09 | jhMikeS | so I haven't been following too close lately. e200r actually can boot and run rb now? |
| 15:35:31 | preglow | yea |
| 15:35:45 | tumu | from manuf mode atleast |
| 15:35:54 | B4gder | no, for real too |
| 15:36:00 | jhMikeS | hey, the iPhone's been both JTAG'd and cracked, so let's get going :) |
| 15:36:43 | * | DerPapst downloads iphone |
| 15:38:53 | jhMikeS | B4gder: it's replacing the original bootloader with one that makes no sig check? |
| 15:39:00 | B4gder | yes |
| 15:39:16 | B4gder | or rather brings back the sig check flaw |
| 15:39:24 | jhMikeS | I thought you didn't know where it was |
| 15:39:32 | B4gder | we figured it out |
| 15:39:43 | B4gder | == on the same place as the vanilla ones |
| 15:39:55 | B4gder | the R models just hide the second partition when shown over usb |
| 15:40:20 | B4gder | hidden for real you could say ;-) |
| 15:41:46 | * | jhMikeS doesn't understand why the companies just don't give up the futile efforts ... The walls of Jericho and all... :) |
| 15:42:16 | B4gder | in this case, they probably try to keep their DRM hidden or safe or something |
| 15:42:19 | tumu | have to do even lame attempt to use dmca |
| 15:43:50 | JdGordon | anyone want to have a guess as to why the lcd is useless in manufac mode, but once rockbox is loaded from disk it works? (the init sequence is all ifdef BOOTLOADER)... |
| 15:44:23 | jhMikeS | because it's actually initialized already but not used and no backlight? |
| 15:45:41 | JdGordon | ... but the debug messages at the end of the bootloader should be visiable, but they arent shown untill rockbox is loaded.. |
| 15:45:59 | JdGordon | I checked by sticking a while(1); before the return in the bootloader main() |
| 15:46:13 | jhMikeS | framebuffer is still the OF framebuffer and needs to be set to something else probably |
| 15:46:57 | JdGordon | thats done in lcd_init() |
| 15:47:20 | jhMikeS | It's already called by the time mm starts? |
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| 15:47:36 | jhMikeS | ?? |
| 15:48:09 | | Quit webguest54 (Client Quit) |
| 15:48:10 | jhMikeS | lcd_init_device does change it over but not until rockbox itself boots |
| 15:48:20 | | Join nicktastic [0] (n=nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic) |
| 15:50:59 | | Quit sslashes ("leaving") |
| 15:51:10 | | Quit hcs ("Leaving.") |
| 15:52:49 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: doesnt line 411 do that? |
| 15:52:55 | JdGordon | 412 even |
| 15:54:05 | jhMikeS | no, line 427 for rockbox boot |
| 15:55:08 | JdGordon | ? the #else is !BOOTLOADER |
| 15:55:47 | jhMikeS | yeah |
| 15:56:02 | JdGordon | i want to get the lcd actually working in the bootloader... |
| 15:56:50 | | Join The-Compiler [0] (n=florian@15.32.76.83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 15:57:23 | | Join sslashes [0] (i=sslashes@209.67.252.122) |
| 15:57:30 | jhMikeS | so the BOOTLOADER part is being called already? not quite following here. |
| 15:58:23 | tumu | someone should also take a look at the lcd corruption on older (?) sansas |
| 15:58:37 | JdGordon | its going mm -> our bootloader -> rockbox (from disk)... no lcd works untill the rockbox starts running.. but I need lcd in our bootloader... so yeah that code should have run by then |
| 15:58:38 | B4gder | tumu: it would be newer sansas |
| 15:58:42 | jhMikeS | tumu: patch committed today |
| 15:58:48 | tumu | oh |
| 15:58:49 | LinusN | tumu: eh, we fixed that today |
| 15:58:56 | tumu | heh |
| 15:59:05 | tumu | have missed it |
| 15:59:22 | B4gder | its been fixed for aaaaages :*) |
| 15:59:34 | tumu | and now you tell me that! |
| 15:59:35 | * | JdGordon opening can of worms... buuuutt..... |
| 15:59:42 | tumu | :x |
| 15:59:47 | | Join skate3214 [0] (n=chatzill@C-59-101-82-50.syd.connect.net.au) |
| 15:59:58 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: And the bl is just our plain vanilla one? maybe some other register is only being set by firmware and not bl :\ |
| 15:59:59 | JdGordon | there is a comment "All this magic worked out by Mrh"... how is that OK with our no anon code? |
| 16:00 |
| 16:00:21 | B4gder | JdGordon: because we use information from other sources than just devs |
| 16:00:50 | B4gder | and yeah, there are some gray areas |
| 16:00:51 | JdGordon | so that wasnt a striaght copy/paste of his code? |
| 16:01:00 | B4gder | nope |
| 16:02:14 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: could it be the resetting all devices in system_init() which is ifndef bootloader? |
| 16:03:26 | jhMikeS | that really only was needed to take care of audio problems...lcd worked before that was added. |
| 16:03:52 | JdGordon | .. well its not that :p nice and quick to test |
| 16:04:49 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@207.72.175.78) |
| 16:04:59 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: did I ask? Does it show anything when holding to the light? If the AS3514 isn't initialized, you'll not get any backlight. |
| 16:05:45 | JdGordon | its very black... |
| 16:06:04 | | Quit qwm ("leaving") |
| 16:07:35 | | Join bluebrother [0] (i=r1s98BOf@rockbox/staff/bluebrother) |
| 16:07:36 | jhMikeS | it's verified that the BL section is the one being compiled? hrm. |
| 16:08:33 | JdGordon | hmm.. you may be right... im either dreaming.. or there is a very faint numbers on the lcd |
| 16:08:39 | * | JdGordon looks for better light source |
| 16:08:56 | jhMikeS | it of course won't write to lcd_driver_framebuffer if the backlight isn't on |
| 16:09:07 | | Quit obo (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 16:09:29 | tumu | hm, is getting current build enough for the lcd fix? |
| 16:09:45 | jhMikeS | tumu: should be |
| 16:10:00 | tumu | still seeing corruption |
| 16:10:07 | jhMikeS | latest, not daily though |
| 16:10:52 | tumu | yeah, latest |
| 16:10:55 | | Join elinenbe [0] (n=elinenbe@cpe-static-siriussatelliteradio-rtr.cmts.sus.ptd.net) |
| 16:11:22 | tumu | r14620 |
| 16:12:01 | jhMikeS | hmmm...yet another variant? |
| 16:12:20 | tumu | i have e280 |
| 16:13:04 | jhMikeS | that's 8 gig? |
| 16:13:17 | tumu | yes |
| 16:13:36 | * | austriancoder too.. but i dont see any corruption |
| 16:13:39 | jhMikeS | it was tested on two versions of an e280 |
| 16:14:24 | | Join BHSPitMonkey [0] (n=stephen@129.120.244.114) |
| 16:14:30 | tumu | looking closely, it seems rockbox displays more lines at top than seen during the sandisk boot logo |
| 16:16:40 | tumu | and some pixels change at the top while using the wheel, can't recall that happening before |
| 16:16:57 | tumu | previously it was just static corruption |
| 16:18:11 | JdGordon | seems the bin size might be about 57000 bytes |
| 16:20:31 | * | jhMikeS starts to develop a pentagram-shaped rash with the words "Portal Player" encircling it |
| 16:20:47 | tumu | jhMikeS, i have the euro version without radio if that helps |
| 16:21:04 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: you said the backlight wont work if the as3514 isnt init? |
| 16:21:09 | | Part LinusN |
| 16:21:17 | jhMikeS | tumu: hmmm...I'll have to ask about that |
| 16:21:42 | * | austriancoder has also euro without radio |
| 16:22:02 | | Join elinenbe_ [0] (n=elinenbe@cpe-static-siriussatelliteradio-rtr.cmts.sus.ptd.net) |
| 16:22:20 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: most likely not if at least the i2c isn't ready |
| 16:22:40 | tumu | hmm, the corruption disappeared |
| 16:23:02 | jhMikeS | tumu: did you do something in particular? |
| 16:23:18 | tumu | no, just regular use |
| 16:23:30 | tumu | might have been the screensaver, testing again |
| 16:23:50 | JdGordon | jhMikeS: just the i2c_init() call in audiohw_init is important? or the whole thing? |
| 16:24:30 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: I don't think the rtc or anything should matter |
| 16:24:37 | JdGordon | WOOOT! |
| 16:24:40 | JdGordon | backlight is on |
| 16:25:01 | jhMikeS | tumu: did it normalize after backlight off or anything? |
| 16:25:31 | JdGordon | _now_ we can start doing something useful... |
| 16:25:42 | tumu | left it idle to trigger the backlight off few times but no change yet |
| 16:25:47 | jhMikeS | tumu: is it problematic to replace the bootloader? some code is only bootloader executed. |
| 16:27:01 | jhMikeS | not sure if the SVN bootloader should be tried or not unless it actually does work ok |
| 16:27:18 | JdGordon | sansa svn bootloader works fine atm |
| 16:27:31 | JdGordon | unless something in the last 2 days broke it |
| 16:27:47 | | Quit skate3214 ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007073113]") |
| 16:28:01 | tumu | hmm strange |
| 16:28:16 | jhMikeS | I think that might be the problem since LCD_REG_8 is only in the BOOTLOADER block |
| 16:28:22 | tumu | it fixes after the saver is triggered |
| 16:28:30 | tumu | but not everytime tho |
| 16:28:56 | tumu | but when it fixes, it doesn't corrupt again |
| 16:28:58 | jhMikeS | tumu: I guess it's safe to try booloader from the latest build and see |
| 16:29:18 | jhMikeS | you're only getting half the fix in place without it |
| 16:29:40 | tumu | oh |
| 16:29:54 | tumu | how do i try the svn bootloader? |
| 16:31:28 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: sansapatcher? I've never actually changed my bl. :P |
| 16:31:46 | JdGordon | yeah, sansapatcher -a PP5022.mi4 |
| 16:32:01 | jhMikeS | JdGordon: to setup an SVN one? |
| 16:32:07 | JdGordon | yeah |
| 16:32:44 | jhMikeS | I may dump the #ifdef BOOTLOADER because doing so seemed to stop the white screen. I'll check that again. |
| 16:35:09 | JdGordon | are the -D options on gcc not passed to the linker? |
| 16:35:59 | jhMikeS | hmmm...nope...still white screen |
| 16:36:15 | B4gder | JdGordon: -D are for defines, the linker doesn't use defines |
| 16:36:47 | JdGordon | i mean, whatever loads the .lds |
| 16:37:01 | B4gder | well, that's why we preprocess the lds file with the cpp |
| 16:37:28 | B4gder | before linking |
| 16:37:57 | JdGordon | so where do I put my new define in the makefile so it works there? I've added it to EXTRA_DEFINES |
| 16:38:26 | B4gder | sorry, I don't have time to dig into that right now |
| 16:38:46 | JdGordon | ok |
| 16:38:47 | | Quit elinenbe (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
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| 16:39:59 | jhMikeS | do all the sansas with the "gunmetal" gray backs change color to silver when handled alot? mine's almost totally transformed. |
| 16:40:36 | linuxstb_ | JdGordon: Am I understanding correctly that both LCD and ATA are working in your manufacturer mode app now? |
| 16:40:39 | Jangari | mm, chamelian |
| 16:40:49 | JdGordon | linuxstb_: yep |
| 16:41:04 | linuxstb_ | JdGordon: Nice... Have you tested ata read/writes ? |
| 16:41:19 | JdGordon | linuxstb_: only by getting it to load rockbox from the disk |
| 16:41:36 | | Join BobShield [0] (i=rshield@c-24-15-123-57.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 16:41:38 | linuxstb_ | Ah, so you basically have the Rockbox bootloader running in manufacturing mode? |
| 16:41:49 | JdGordon | almost unmodified bootloader |
| 16:41:55 | * | jhMikeS wonders of what disk JdGordon speaks |
| 16:42:12 | JdGordon | quiet you! |
| 16:42:47 | linuxstb_ | JdGordon: So there should be no problems now... Do you know what to do for the patching? |
| 16:42:54 | linuxstb_ | (or is that for another time?) |
| 16:42:56 | JdGordon | not a clue :p |
| 16:43:10 | JdGordon | its almost 1am so i should be going to bed... |
| 16:43:40 | | Quit n17ikh|Lappy (Connection timed out) |
| 16:43:41 | Jangari | you're in australia? |
| 16:43:56 | linuxstb_ | Download and compare the modified and original E200R bootloaders - you'll see that only four (consecutive) bytes are different. You'll need to find the disk sector containing that change (in the firmware partition), read it, modify it, then write it back.... |
| 16:44:04 | * | jhMikeS will shut up and listen to music on the patched kernel that's been running since he first came on IRC |
| 16:44:21 | linuxstb_ | JdGordon: Plus of course all the safety checks you want to implement... |
| 16:44:44 | JdGordon | both those bootloaders are availeble where? |
| 16:44:57 | JdGordon | daniel.haxx.se? or sansas site? |
| 16:45:13 | linuxstb_ | http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/e200/BL_SD_boardSupportSD.btl-modified and http://daniel.haxx.se/sansa/e200/BL_SD_boardSupportSD.btl |
| 16:45:23 | JdGordon | ok, cool |
| 16:45:52 | B4gder | the R BL is not available from sandisk, only by extracting from an actual target |
| 16:45:59 | austriancoder | linuxstb_: whats the difference between USB_POWERED and USB_INSERTED ? |
| 16:46:22 | linuxstb_ | USB_POWERED is a USB connection to a wall charger. USB_INSERTED is a USB connection to a computer. |
| 16:46:59 | austriancoder | okay... |
| 16:47:01 | linuxstb_ | The existing usb_detect() code is the only way we know to differentiate the two. |
| 16:47:33 | linuxstb_ | Do you have a usb charger? |
| 16:47:44 | austriancoder | linuxstb_: no |
| 16:47:52 | jhMikeS | AS3514 differentiates the two on e200 |
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| 16:48:44 | | Quit elinenbe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 16:48:48 | | Nick elinenbe_ is now known as elinenbe (n=elinenbe@cpe-static-siriussatelliteradio-rtr.cmts.sus.ptd.net) |
| 16:50:10 | | Join fm2 [0] (i=c27f0814@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-40edf64a68c52273) |
| 16:50:20 | austriancoder | linuxstb_: I know whats going wrong in usb detection in usb stack, but i am looking why atm |
| 16:50:26 | | Quit jhulst (Remote closed the connection) |
| 16:50:50 | fm2 | How can I see how the USB mode was recognised (charger/comp)? |
| 16:51:06 | linuxstb_ | fm2: What device? |
| 16:51:24 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 16:51:50 | * | JdGordon going to bed, cyaz |
| 16:51:57 | | Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!") |
| 16:52:53 | | Quit B4gder ("It is time to say MOOO") |
| 16:54:09 | bluebrother | Febs: what do you think about FS #7714? I think it's confusing |
| 16:54:57 | Febs | I've only had a chance to glance at it, but I noted in the comments one issue that I saw immediately. |
| 16:55:16 | bluebrother | well, I just wrote a lenghty comment ;-) |
| 16:55:50 | | Join _jz [0] (n=jz@ns1.april.org) |
| 16:55:53 | _jz | hallo |
| 16:55:55 | _jz | wow |
| 16:56:03 | bluebrother | hallo. wow. |
| 16:56:23 | _jz | i boot my sensa e200 with the daily build and i got the skin that appears with "Data abort at 00045F80" on top, nothing much |
| 16:56:38 | _jz | only looong press allows me to shutdown, and same results afterwards |
| 16:57:07 | amiconn | Use the latest. Daily has a database bug |
| 16:57:12 | pixelma | bluebrother, Febs: is that the one which was posted to the forums first? |
| 16:57:13 | _jz | aah ok |
| 16:57:41 | bluebrother | pixelma: not sure, but I guess so |
| 16:58:05 | fm2 | linuxstb: Sansa e280 with FM |
| 17:00 |
| 17:00:42 | linuxstb_ | fm2: I'm not sure - IIUC, the Sansa doesn't reboot into the OF when you insert USB, which is what happens on other PP targets. |
| 17:01:27 | | Join desowin [0] (n=desowin@hdp186.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 17:02:26 | fm2 | linuxstb: I only ask because of the recent change in usb_detect. We want to tell usb charger from PC charger. Is it intended to show this somehow? |
| 17:02:41 | pixelma | bluebrother: there are also 2 mistakes in his new "first contact" section - Rockbox doesn't play ogg vorbis on the Archos devices and dual boot is also not possible everywhere or done differently (that's the first paragraph I read in the forums until I got confused). I also think he changes too much and don't see something that is more logical than before (very personal impression) |
| 17:02:56 | pixelma | haven't even read further... |
| 17:03:01 | linuxstb_ | fm2: On other PP targets, Rockbox reboots into the OF's USB mode when a USB connection is detected - that's how you know... |
| 17:03:51 | bluebrother | as far as I can tell he is completely sansa-centric and forgets about all others. And presents the user stuff that isn't completely correct and misleading. |
| 17:03:52 | fm2 | linuxstb: will it stay the same when the USB stack is implemented? |
| 17:04:13 | linuxstb_ | fm2: When the USB stack is working, the Sansa will enter USB mode when it detects a USB connection... |
| 17:04:21 | bluebrother | besides, I'm wondering if we really need to rework that chapter completely. |
| 17:04:26 | | Join toffe82 [0] (n=chatzill@ppp-69-238-93-198.dsl.frs2ca.pacbell.net) |
| 17:05:00 | fm2 | linuxstb: and if USB charger is detected? What should happen then? |
| 17:05:10 | linuxstb_ | fm2: Then Rockbox charges via USB... |
| 17:05:33 | pixelma | bluebrother: yeah, my thoughts too. There are other bits and pieces that are really wrong currently or outdated (the text viewer chapter for example) |
| 17:05:48 | fm2 | linuxstb: but will it enter USB mode? Or will I be able to listen to the music? I.e. as if nothing had happened? |
| 17:06:31 | fm2 | linuxstb: like with H120 |
| 17:06:31 | linuxstb_ | fm2: How can it enter usb mode if it's connected to a charger? |
| 17:06:46 | bluebrother | pixelma: do you think it would be a good idea to include features.txt for building the manual? It could help with opt-ing somewhat more automatically |
| 17:07:00 | bluebrother | otoh it could also lead to faster breakage of the manual. |
| 17:08:00 | pixelma | hard to say... I can't really imagine that at the moment |
| 17:08:44 | fm2 | linuxstb: I probably don't quite understand what "USB mode" means. Is it a state when RB has recognised that an USB jack has been inserted (which can be either a wall charger or a PC connection)? Or does it only mean a PC connection (and hence the possibility to transfer files)? |
| 17:08:56 | bluebrother | maybe I should give it a try and see how complex integrating is ... otoh I have enough other stuff on my todo |
| 17:11:03 | | Join freqmod [0] (n=freqmod@m072g.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 17:12:38 | pixelma | I'd say your rbutil work is more important :) |
| 17:12:52 | fm2 | linuxstb: if it's the latter then am I right in the assumption that we only need to detect a charger in order to properly show it in the status bar (animated battery)? |
| 17:13:37 | linuxstb_ | fm2: "usb mode" is when your DAP is acting as an external hard disk connected to your computer. |
| 17:13:48 | | Quit The-Compiler ("Connection reseted by god") |
| 17:14:02 | amiconn | The other is usb charging... and it's not only necessary for the charging animation |
| 17:14:37 | amiconn | It's also necessary to prevent poweroff while usb powered. Otherwise it would reboot every few minutes |
| 17:15:32 | fm2 | amiconn: you mean the setting "Auto shut down after xxx mins"? |
| 17:15:41 | fm2 | linuxstb: ok, now I understand |
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| 17:16:48 | | Quit `sam` (".") |
| 17:18:16 | fm2 | Another question about the plans: once the usb stack is in place, what mode would sansa enter when connected to a PC (with power off)? OF or RB one? |
| 17:19:07 | linuxstb_ | I would expect the RB one. |
| 17:21:04 | linuxstb_ | On other targets (with a hardware USB bridge), the bootloader enters USB mode directly if it detects a usb connection at boot - it doesn't start either RB or the OF. |
| 17:21:27 | linuxstb_ | So I would assume we would want to do something similar on PP targets eventually. |
| 17:23:13 | fm2 | linuxstb: yes, that'd be the "rescue mode", right? |
| 17:24:11 | linuxstb_ | Yes. Although ipods already have a rescue mode that is accessible before the RB bootloader, so on ipods there is no need for a second rescue mode... |
| 17:27:39 | fm2 | linuxstb: but it would be possible. What about sansa? Doesn't it also have rescue ("manufacturing") mode? What would the RB rescue mode be good for? |
| 17:28:27 | | Join Rob2222 [0] (n=Miranda@pD952B744.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:32:02 | | Quit tchan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 17:32:55 | jhMikeS | how's the data from the USB stack actually going to get written to/read from the ata? nothing in the current svn kernal seems compatible with that. |
| 17:33:22 | austriancoder | jhMikeS: reading sectors with... one moment |
| 17:33:28 | | Join DefineByte [0] (n=DefineBy@bb-87-81-195-5.ukonline.co.uk) |
| 17:34:06 | austriancoder | ata_read_sectors |
| 17:34:23 | austriancoder | and ata_write_sectors |
| 17:34:26 | jhMikeS | from an interrupt handler? |
| 17:34:49 | preglow | heh |
| 17:34:54 | austriancoder | jhMikeS: nopw |
| 17:34:56 | austriancoder | nope |
| 17:35:04 | austriancoder | an own thread will handle it |
| 17:35:13 | amiconn | From the USB thread, I'd expect |
| 17:35:29 | jhMikeS | hmmm...yes, of course. but how? |
| 17:35:50 | austriancoder | amiconn: nope.. at the moment i am doing this in an seperate therad |
| 17:36:22 | DefineByte | is there any chance that setting the hold switch to on turns off the wheel on the iPod video? |
| 17:36:26 | austriancoder | in the interrupt handler i put events in the queue of the "worker" thread and he does all the work |
| 17:36:54 | austriancoder | amiconn: using existing usb thread is not the best idea.. a lot of generic code gets mixed with usb-stack specific one |
| 17:37:27 | DefineByte | forget that, if it was a hardware problem with key eating i guess the OF would show it. 0_) |
| 17:37:34 | jhMikeS | hmmm...damn I need to commit this patch. it's got the stuff to make that more efficient. |
| 17:38:38 | | Join tchan [0] (n=tchan@lunar-linux/developer/tchan) |
| 17:39:02 | | Part fm2 |
| 17:41:28 | | Join sitwon [0] (n=adam@pool-72-66-96-118.washdc.fios.verizon.net) |
| 17:41:59 | jhMikeS | what about using the whole audio buffer as a huge FIFO? lots of slop space that way. |
| 17:43:24 | sitwon | There is a typo on the page <http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/SansaE200RInstallationFromLinux>. To copy .rockbox to ~/sansa/mnt/ the correct command is "cp -R .rockbox/ mnt/" without the '-R' flag the cp command will ommit directories. |
| 17:43:55 | DefineByte | it's a wiki |
| 17:44:58 | | Quit Rob2222 (Connection timed out) |
| 17:46:01 | nicktastic | heh |
| 17:46:21 | linuxstb_ | sitwon: A better way would be "unzip rockbox.zip -d ~/sansa/mnt/" |
| 17:48:12 | sitwon | I recognize that you could just unzip it on the device, I also realize that it's a wiki. But I don't have write access on the wiki and I'm simply pointing out that the way they tell supposed novices to do it is wrong. |
| 17:48:34 | DefineByte | fair enough. good catch :) |
| 17:49:04 | austriancoder | linuxstb_: usb_enable(true) get call when USB_INSERTED and usb_enable(false) when != USB_INSERTED - or? |
| 17:49:18 | | Join bluey- [0] (n=bluey@dslb-088-074-031-000.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:49:30 | sitwon | by the way, I have rockbox working on my brothers e270R now, thanx a LOT! |
| 17:49:35 | linuxstb_ | austriancoder: See firmware/usb.c |
| 17:50:11 | | Quit petur ("stkov") |
| 17:52:34 | | Quit bluey- (Client Quit) |
| 17:53:00 | | Quit Zagor ("Client exiting") |
| 17:53:40 | | Join jane- [0] (i=jane@ulko.kuori.org) |
| 17:54:08 | DefineByte | so, who wants to port rockbox to x86? 8) |
| 17:55:24 | austriancoder | DefineByte: me has it on the todo for some time... adding an sdl based target |
| 17:55:57 | DefineByte | i'd love to build a jukebox with a Via EPIA and use rockbox on it. |
| 17:57:25 | linuxstb_ | austriancoder: Have you heard about the "port" to the Motorolo E680 phone? (basically just the UI sim for the ipod video running on phone, which runs Linux). |
| 17:57:44 | DefineByte | is moving rockbox to targets other than DAPs a goal for the future? |
| 17:58:19 | austriancoder | linuxstb_: never heard of this "port"... |
| 17:58:26 | linuxstb_ | I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's a goal, but the idea of "rockbox as application" has been discussed many times before, and lots of people seem to want it. |
| 17:59:04 | DefineByte | the audio players on linux are pretty feature light |
| 17:59:12 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@207.72.175.78) |
| 17:59:17 | linuxstb_ | austriancoder: http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=12403.0 (follow the link in the first post) |
| 17:59:47 | DefineByte | that's pretty neat |
| 18:00 |
| 18:00:14 | jhMikeS | austriancoder: I asked about using the audiobuffer since that would leave lots of room for bursting data in and letting ata handle it largly at it's own pace if it doesn't always keep up. |
| 18:00:37 | linuxstb_ | jhMikeS: Wouldn't it be dangerous to cache too much data though/ |
| 18:00:43 | | Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear) |
| 18:01:23 | jhMikeS | I don't think so since it's on the running device itself, not cached on the pc end |
| 18:01:39 | austriancoder | jhMikeS: at the moment I need a max buffer of 512byte for data transfers... used also for maxsize in endpoint descriptors |
| 18:03:58 | * | austriancoder makes a break# |
| 18:03:59 | jhMikeS | austriancoder: does ata keep up or do things have to slow down to accomodate it? |
| 18:04:37 | austriancoder | jhMikeS: to eraly to tell... |
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| 18:20:19 | webguest13 | austriancoder: how far away is the serial and msd drivers? |
| 18:21:40 | * | n1s guesses on > < this far... |
| 18:22:24 | linuxstb_ | barrywardell: Are you here? |
| 18:22:31 | barrywardell | yes |
| 18:22:49 | barrywardell | back from holidays |
| 18:23:01 | | Part sslashes |
| 18:23:24 | linuxstb_ | barrywardell: Welcome back. Have you tried connecting a PP target to your Mac with the "charge button" held down? i.e. to avoid entering USB mode? |
| 18:23:41 | linuxstb_ | If I do that on my ipod, the Mac's USB stack dies (for that USB port). |
| 18:24:14 | barrywardell | my Mac's USB stack dies a lot when I connect a PP target to it |
| 18:24:18 | linuxstb_ | This happened both before and after the USB detection change I've just committed. |
| 18:24:36 | barrywardell | it also dies other times too |
| 18:25:08 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@207.72.175.78) |
| 18:25:17 | linuxstb_ | Any idea how to fix it? |
| 18:26:01 | barrywardell | it doesn't die when there's a functional usb driver |
| 18:26:16 | barrywardell | ie. when I was using the e200tool code in Rockbox it didn't die |
| 18:26:42 | linuxstb_ | I also noticed that when connecting to Linux, I sometimes (but not always) get a "new USB device" message before the ipod reboots to disk mode, and then I get a second "new USB device" when it connects in disk mode. |
| 18:27:31 | linuxstb_ | So is the problem that "dr_controller_stop" doesn't close the USB connection thoroughly? |
| 18:27:32 | barrywardell | the 1.2.15 OF for the sansa also cuses the Mac usb stack trouble, so I don't know if it's a problem we can fix too easily |
| 18:28:18 | barrywardell | I don't think it's a dr_controller_stop problem |
| 18:29:05 | linuxstb_ | I mean should we be doing more between calling run and stop - to tell the host that we're aborting the connection? |
| 18:29:50 | barrywardell | I'm not sure. |
| 18:30:40 | linuxstb_ | Do you have an ipod, or just H10 and Sansa? |
| 18:30:43 | barrywardell | have you had a look at the linux driver to see what it does? |
| 18:30:55 | linuxstb_ | No |
| 18:31:00 | barrywardell | I have an ipod with a broken disk, so it's not much use |
| 18:32:30 | barrywardell | I'll have a look at the linux code now and see if we're missing anything |
| 18:35:11 | | Quit DefineByte () |
| 18:35:27 | elinenbe | quick question... all the USB commits, are those so rockbox can handle PC/device USB connections, or for USB on the go? |
| 18:36:41 | | Join DefineByte [0] (n=DefineBy@bb-87-81-195-5.ukonline.co.uk) |
| 18:39:22 | linuxstb_ | PC/device |
| 18:40:04 | barrywardell | linuxstb_: looking at the driver, there is some extra stuff. it dumps the ep queues |
| 18:40:32 | barrywardell | but that requires working with the host, so it wouldn't be easy to add |
| 18:40:36 | | Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP) |
| 18:42:10 | austriancoder | linuxstb_: stalling ep0 would be a good idea |
| 18:42:49 | * | linuxstb_ should point out that he knows nothing about usb programming |
| 18:43:22 | austriancoder | me tries something |
| 18:46:07 | austriancoder | linuxstb_: you could try this: http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/11081 - as i dont have access to a mac today, i cant test it |
| 18:47:42 | linuxstb_ | Thanks, I'll try it later this evening - I don't have access to my Mac now either. |
| 18:48:23 | austriancoder | do we have functions for utf-16 ? |
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| 18:51:26 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
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| 18:52:46 | Kingstone | does anyone know where can i find info about today's apple conference? |
| 18:54:10 | alienbiker99 | engadget |
| 18:54:10 | scorche | that is offtopic... |
| 18:57:23 | elinenbe | scorche: not if the new ipods are running rockbox? |
| 18:58:21 | linuxstb_ | elinenbe: Are they? |
| 18:58:48 | DefineByte | no, they're running OSX |
| 18:58:52 | DefineByte | hrhr |
| 18:58:55 | scorche | which is a rumor... |
| 18:59:08 | DefineByte | an untrue one i think |
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| 19:00 |
| 19:00:13 | | Part DefineByte |
| 19:04:25 | | Quit barrywardell (Remote closed the connection) |
| 19:07:10 | Nico_P | austriancoder: seen that we have to uplad code to google ? |
| 19:13:39 | | Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur) |
| 19:14:41 | preglow | final stages should be ready for uploading now |
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| 19:16:37 | | Join fm2 [0] (i=d9b96770@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-f5d39398bf53bd70) |
| 19:17:00 | Nico_P | preglow: we have to upload code from the 20th of august |
| 19:17:35 | preglow | i know |
| 19:19:06 | Nico_P | preglow: what do you call "final stages" then ? |
| 19:19:27 | | Join Thundercloud [0] (n=thunderc@84-51-130-71.judith186.adsl.metronet.co.uk) |
| 19:20:56 | fm2 | May I ask an OT question? Ist it possible to disable "Database Refresh" in Sansa OF? It's nasty. I know this is the wrong channel, but it's quiet here, so I thought... |
| 19:21:35 | tumu | i've wondered that as well |
| 19:21:55 | linuxstb_ | I thought the Rockbox bootlaoder could do that, at least for some OF revisions? |
| 19:22:35 | fm2 | tumu: well, one way would be to ask the devs to quickly make USB mode working in RB :-))) |
| 19:23:39 | preglow | Nico_P: i meant the final stages of preparing for uploads, from googles side |
| 19:23:46 | preglow | Nico_P: they didn't have it ready before today |
| 19:23:53 | Nico_P | ah right |
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| 19:29:30 | | Quit sitwon ("Leaving") |
| 19:30:16 | linuxstb_ | Slightly off-topic, but Apple's big news is a replacement for the ipod video - an 80GB model smaller than the current 30GB, and a 160GB smaller than the current 80GB.... |
| 19:30:27 | linuxstb_ | So Rockbox is no-longer running on any of Apple's current ipods... |
| 19:30:51 | | Join Hellmark [0] (n=hellmark@63.77.33.33) |
| 19:34:39 | n1s | wow an (GB as entry level hd player is massive... I still haven't filled my h320... I guess the time for portable flac is here :-) |
| 19:34:53 | linuxstb_ | Well, portable ALAC... |
| 19:34:55 | n1s | s/(/80 |
| 19:35:18 | n1s | what, you're not going to port rockbox to it!111!!!! ONE |
| 19:35:22 | n1s | :-D |
| 19:35:45 | linuxstb_ | It's inevitably going to be protected in the same way as the 2nd gen Nano. |
| 19:36:53 | n1s | Well one could get one of those 160 GB monsters and rip out the drive and put it in something useful, (and hope it would work) .-) |
| 19:37:22 | linuxstb_ | The 160GB was announced as $349 |
| 19:37:37 | linuxstb_ | 80GB is $249 |
| 19:37:51 | * | rasher watches that mean €500 |
| 19:37:52 | * | nicktastic is ready to buy a 160GB as soon as Rockbox is ported |
| 19:37:57 | alienbiker99 | the ipod touch has wifi =) |
| 19:38:02 | Hellmark | touch I am thinking $400 |
| 19:38:19 | * | linuxstb_ points people to #rockbox-community |
| 19:38:37 | amiconn | Well, I think it won't take that long to get my H180 filled. Flac takes quite some space |
| 19:38:56 | amiconn | If I want the same lossless stuff on my recorder, I'd need a 120GB disk at least |
| 19:39:13 | amiconn | (WAV, as flac isn't possible with that CPU) |
| 19:39:34 | linuxstb_ | My collection of studio CDs comes in at about 130GB in flac... |
| 19:39:43 | Hellmark | how is FLAC on a 4G iPod or Mini? |
| 19:40:03 | linuxstb_ | FLAC works well on all ipods - it easy on the CPU. |
| 19:40:06 | linuxstb_ | ^it's |
| 19:40:06 | amiconn | It works... and you can still carry several albums |
| 19:40:14 | Thundercloud | Not on the default firmware though |
| 19:41:23 | Hellmark | the default doesnt support it at all though |
| 19:41:33 | Thundercloud | Yeah |
| 19:41:38 | Hellmark | talking Rockbox |
| 19:41:39 | amiconn | That's totally unimportant |
| 19:41:40 | | Quit elinenbe (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
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| 19:41:49 | Thundercloud | I thought we were talking about the new ipods? |
| 19:41:58 | Thundercloud | In relation to rockbox and how they're likely to be protected |
| 19:42:36 | amiconn | I referred to Hellmark's question regarding flac on 4G / mini |
| 19:42:43 | Thundercloud | Ah ok |
| 19:42:57 | Thundercloud | BTW, how exactly are second gen nanos protected? |
| 19:43:01 | linuxstb_ | And when I talked about "all ipods", I was referring to the ones Rockbox runs on... |
| 19:43:30 | Hellmark | I'm looking at the last of the monochrome iPods, because they're cheaper. Only thing is, do I want more battery life, or more storage space. |
| 19:43:39 | Thundercloud | Hellmark: I see. |
| 19:43:46 | amiconn | Hmm, I don't remember whether I tested this, but I expect flac to run without boosting even on PP5002 |
| 19:43:49 | Thundercloud | I quite like FLAC. |
| 19:44:03 | Thundercloud | I've got a Cowon D2 and put some FLAC stuff on there. Not a lot mind, I don't _have_ a lot of FLAC stuff. |
| 19:44:04 | linuxstb_ | amiconn: I expect so too - it's all in IRAM... |
| 19:44:31 | Hellmark | Thundercloud, same here. |
| 19:44:49 | Thundercloud | Hellmark: What, you have a D2 or you like Flac? :D |
| 19:44:54 | Hellmark | I've only got a handful of albums in FLAC |
| 19:45:01 | Hellmark | but wanting to start migrating |
| 19:45:32 | Thundercloud | Still, hang on, the new ipods. Is it JUST the capacity increase and size decrease? |
| 19:45:50 | | Join amiconn_ [0] (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 19:46:00 | | Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.) |
| 19:46:02 | | Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn) |
| 19:46:07 | Hellmark | on iPod Classic, more battery, more storage |
| 19:46:08 | amiconn | linuxstb: Ah, then it definitely should. It's the same arm cores, and IRAM is equal in speed to PP502x |
| 19:46:11 | amiconn | (we're not running dualcore on PP5002 yet though) |
| 19:46:20 | Hellmark | then there is the new iPod Touch, and the third gen Nano |
| 19:46:22 | | Join obo [0] (n=obo@rockbox/developer/obo) |
| 19:46:35 | Thundercloud | Hellmark: :o I see. Links? |
| 19:46:35 | linuxstb_ | Thundercloud: No. They first announced a new generation Nano, with a new UI, more similar to the iPhone, and video capabilities. Then they announced the new "ipod classic" which they said had the same UI as the new Nano. |
| 19:46:49 | Hellmark | Thundercloud, http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/05/steve-jobs-live-apples-the-beat-goes-on-special-event/ |
| 19:47:32 | linuxstb_ | So reading between the lines, I would say they've finished writing a new OS for the Samsung CPU, and both the new ipods are using that. i.e. it's the end of the line for Portalplayer. |
| 19:52:05 | | Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 19:52:32 | Thundercloud | Fun |
| 19:52:43 | Thundercloud | Thing is though, it doesn't give capacities or prices for the touch |
| 19:52:51 | krazykit | it does |
| 19:52:55 | krazykit | 8/16 gigs |
| 19:53:03 | krazykit | 300 and 400 bucks |
| 19:53:19 | bluey- | geez.. no hdd |
| 19:53:24 | Thundercloud | Where's that? |
| 19:53:27 | Thundercloud | I didn't see that |
| 19:53:32 | krazykit | live.gizmodo.com |
| 19:54:10 | Thundercloud | Crazy |
| 19:54:18 | Thundercloud | That's a pretty good price as far as flash players go |
| 19:54:28 | krazykit | what? |
| 19:54:41 | | Join spiorf_ [0] (n=spiorf@host105-174-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:54:50 | bluey- | for flash but for the same price they could offer a 80gig hdd |
| 19:54:59 | Thundercloud | krazykit: Well, $300 is Ł150 |
| 19:55:03 | BigBambi | guys, the sme conversation is going on in the correct, off-topic channel #rockbox-community |
| 19:55:09 | BigBambi | *same |
| 19:55:10 | Thundercloud | I got my 4GB Cowon iAudio D2 for Ł150 |
| 19:55:20 | Thundercloud | Meh, i'm finished |
| 19:56:18 | | Join vic^2 [0] (n=vmark@fctnnbsc16w-142166033020.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net) |
| 19:56:32 | | Quit Llorean (Client Quit) |
| 19:56:53 | vic^2 | Are the daily builds of the bootloaders saved and available anywhere? |
| 19:57:15 | krazykit | bootloaders are released, not built daily |
| 19:57:19 | | Quit Lear ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]") |
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| 19:57:37 | | Join Llorean [0] (n=llorean@cpe-70-113-103-34.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 19:57:50 | vic^2 | so there is no way to get the bootloader for the sansa that has the reduced USB delay short of building it myself? |
| 19:58:11 | * | amiconn wonders what HDDs the new "classic" ipod line uses |
| 19:58:32 | * | linuxstb_ too |
| 19:58:34 | amiconn | The devices itself are, hmm, not very interesting to be honest |
| 19:58:45 | linuxstb_ | I agree - but the disks are... |
| 19:59:34 | amiconn | Apple again forgot the radio (or to be more up to date, fm + dab radio) |
| 19:59:47 | linuxstb_ | Although they seem to have quite an impressive battery life - 40 hours for audio, 7 for video. |
| 19:59:53 | Llorean | Is there somewhere with images of the new iPods? |
| 20:00 |
| 20:00:05 | linuxstb_ | This is a good link - http://www.engadget.com/2007/09/05/steve-jobs-live-apples-the-beat-goes-on-special-event/ |
| 20:00:07 | * | Llorean just finished wrangling his computer out of an xgl nightmare. |
| 20:00:09 | Hellmark | amiconn, eh, do most people really want a radio? |
| 20:00:20 | Llorean | Hellmark: Quite a lot of us do, yes. |
| 20:00:48 | Hellmark | I mean, myself, and most people I know, use MP3 players TO GET AWAY from the radio, since the radio sucks cock anymore. |
| 20:01:12 | krazykit | yeah, but the radio is nice if you want to listen to, say, NPR or something |
| 20:01:18 | krazykit | or the BBC across the pond |
| 20:01:26 | | Quit petur ("switching") |
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| 20:02:05 | Hellmark | well, it must not be that pressing of a concern though. I mean 110 million sold, and not enough of a clamor to add it |
| 20:02:26 | linuxstb_ | Hellmark: Quality of radio heavily depends on your location.... |
| 20:02:42 | Hellmark | Majority of the US, its horrid. |
| 20:02:49 | Hellmark | well, north america. |
| 20:03:02 | krazykit | country music stations :-( |
| 20:03:13 | Hellmark | (since many of the stations in canada and mexico are owned by the same company) |
| 20:03:22 | | Join GodEater [0] (n=bryan@rockbox/staff/GodEater) |
| 20:03:26 | Hellmark | krazykit, no |
| 20:03:41 | * | amiconn would like a player the size (and capacity) of the new ipods, but with a greyscale lcd, real buttons, recording, and fm/dab/drm radio |
| 20:03:45 | gregj | http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070905-live-ars-technica-coverage-of-todays-apple-event.html |
| 20:03:48 | gregj | what you say folks |
| 20:04:06 | | Quit spiorf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
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| 20:04:11 | krazykit | so who wants a pool on how long it'll take for requests for rockbox to be ported to the new nano, the classic, and the touch to be put in New Ports? |
| 20:04:12 | gregj | I wonder if the new nano would be hackable for rockbox |
| 20:04:26 | sambolina3 | a long long time |
| 20:04:26 | Thundercloud | krazykit: Can I have "soon"? :P |
| 20:04:27 | gregj | few seconds ? |
| 20:04:29 | Hellmark | there are a handful of companies that own almost all the radio stations in North America, and they've stripped away the DJs choice of music, and just have them play precanned music, of which really is in short supply, since the same songs get repeated over and over again |
| 20:04:42 | linuxstb_ | gregj: It's unlikely to be less secure than the current Nano... |
| 20:04:46 | Hellmark | I mean, there are times, where you will hear the same song about once every hour |
| 20:05:10 | sambolina3 | agreed ^^^ |
| 20:05:19 | gregj | linuxstb_: is the current nano makes it just hard to change firmware, because of encryption, etc ? |
| 20:05:25 | amiconn | Oh, and I forgot spdif in+out |
| 20:05:25 | preglow | yes |
| 20:05:30 | gregj | oh |
| 20:05:33 | gregj | I didn't kne |
| 20:05:34 | gregj | w |
| 20:05:39 | gregj | thought it is just completly different arch |
| 20:05:46 | linuxstb_ | gregj: Yes, that as well... |
| 20:05:55 | gregj | shit |
| 20:06:05 | | Join ompaul [0] (n=ompaul@freenode/staff/gnewsense.ompaul) |
| 20:06:08 | gregj | ipod is completly useless without rockbox.. |
| 20:06:42 | gregj | why would they wanna do this ? |
| 20:06:51 | gregj | there is no problem with the big ipod |
| 20:06:57 | gregj | so why do it for nano |
| 20:06:58 | gregj | wtf |
| 20:07:09 | sambolina3 | so they can stop people from playing videos on their nanos |
| 20:07:24 | Hellmark | well, I am betting much of the iphone hacking will start bleeding over to the ipods |
| 20:08:56 | | Join merbanan [0] (n=banan@83.233.243.132) |
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| 20:20:20 | | Part Xero ("Ex-Chat") |
| 20:20:59 | | Join senab [0] (n=chatzill@82-35-229-48.cable.ubr01.smal.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:22:48 | senab | hey, i'm currently selling my ipod and looking at getting a sansa e280. i've got a few questions though: 1. is the screen still flickering? 2. can i record radio? 3. what can i expect in battery life? |
| 20:23:38 | saratoga | senab: no, probably, and 12-13 hours (?) |
| 20:23:40 | RudMan | I've got a e240. the screen does not flicker |
| 20:24:00 | | Join O112358 [0] (n=irc@82-35-97-118.cable.ubr05.dals.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:24:12 | | Join GodEater [0] (n=bryan@rockbox/staff/GodEater) |
| 20:24:28 | RudMan | I've been unable to get recording working at all, I've only looked at it briefly tho. and my sansa only lasts about 5 hours |
| 20:25:01 | senab | thanks, sounds good then. i'm debating whether to pay the extra ÂŁ20 for the radio version hmmmm |
| 20:25:06 | preglow | saratoga: i think uploading is ready now |
| 20:25:13 | senab | rudman: whats the radio reception like? |
| 20:25:28 | O112358 | how could i get back to the default rockbox theme after changing my theme to something else? when i try and load up Rockbox_Default it doesn't look the same as when i first installed rockbox.. |
| 20:25:30 | RudMan | haven't tried the radio at all. |
| 20:26:19 | O112358 | and resetting my settings seems a bit extreme |
| 20:26:33 | in-jane | RudMan: have you figured out why it only lasts 5 hours? that sounds weird |
| 20:26:39 | senab | rudman: okay thanks |
| 20:26:48 | RudMan | maybe you made some font changes after the installed it the first time and that's why it looks different |
| 20:27:13 | RudMan | in-jane: I've got a refurb unit so I'm suspecting it's a questionable battery |
| 20:27:20 | senab | just found the e280 for ÂŁ73 delivered. Bargain! |
| 20:27:48 | O112358 | RudMan: i'm sure even the background colour is different, it doesn't start off white does it? |
| 20:28:17 | | Part bluey- ("Leaving") |
| 20:28:18 | RudMan | most themes don't reset their backdrop if they don't include them |
| 20:28:19 | O112358 | RudMan: there must be some way to just reset theme settings without resetting everything.. |
| 20:28:30 | in-jane | RudMan: OK. i just got little worried since i ordered my e240 today ;) |
| 20:29:05 | linuxstb_ | O112358: You could open up .rockbox/config.cfg in a text editor and delete any lines relating to the theme. |
| 20:29:10 | BigBambi | senab: where? |
| 20:29:11 | O112358 | RudMan: that's what i assumed as well.. seeing as the default theme doesn't included that information it doesn't change it |
| 20:29:26 | senab | http://www.bluebat.com/webstore/general/forms/ExtendedInformation.aspx?ExtendedCode=S3913139&ExtendedProdCode=M220492&CatCode=SELF0804&referrer=Kelkoo |
| 20:29:32 | senab | BigBambi ^ |
| 20:29:39 | BigBambi | cheers |
| 20:29:49 | | Quit Buschel () |
| 20:29:52 | O112358 | linuxstb_: nice one, seems quite fiddly for something so basic though |
| 20:29:57 | | Quit pepie34 ("Ex-Chat") |
| 20:30:21 | linuxstb_ | O112358: I agree. If there isn't already, we should add a "rockbox_default.cfg" in the themes directory. |
| 20:31:09 | | Join BigMac [0] (n=mike@c-71-234-95-131.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) |
| 20:31:33 | O112358 | linuxstb_: good idea, also, can you remember if the image that comes up when you connect to the computer is 'graphical' looking with no settings changed? |
| 20:31:40 | RudMan | and it should include a null backdrop line like this backdrop: |
| 20:32:08 | linuxstb_ | O112358: The USB picture is hard-coded - you can't change it. |
| 20:32:14 | RudMan | if your previous theme set a black bmp as a backdrop and the new theme does not set a backdrop but sets a black font, you're hosed |
| 20:33:17 | | Join jgarvey [0] (n=jgarvey@cpe-069-134-102-044.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 20:33:35 | linuxstb_ | RudMan: Yes, that's a well-known issue. Hopefully the new themes site can add a validation to check for a backdrop: line in the .cfg |
| 20:34:05 | Llorean | linuxstb_: It was our intent to require a backdrop line, as if I recall even a blank one at least resets it. |
| 20:35:29 | | Quit vic^2 (Remote closed the connection) |
| 20:36:05 | O112358 | i could change the .cfg through rockbox couldn't I? |
| 20:36:45 | linuxstb_ | O112358: You mean with the text editor? |
| 20:37:16 | O112358 | hehe yeah i'm doing that right now |
| 20:37:55 | O112358 | do the iconset parameters relate to the theme? |
| 20:38:50 | RudMan | yes, it reflects what icons you see |
| 20:39:36 | O112358 | and it's fine to just delete all these lines? it will just make it resort to its default right? |
| 20:40:31 | n1s | yep |
| 20:41:46 | O112358 | and then reset my player? |
| 20:42:13 | O112358 | there we go, back to normal |
| 20:42:27 | linuxstb_ | Now you can do "save theme .cfg" and keep that safe. |
| 20:42:38 | O112358 | yay |
| 20:43:08 | O112358 | but wont it fail to override the background settings etc? |
| 20:44:03 | O112358 | oh right i'll be restoring the .cfg file not loading a .wps.. |
| 20:44:39 | | Part _jz |
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| 20:46:58 | | Join datasleep [0] (n=datachil@217-208-144-87-no75.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 20:47:20 | O112358 | argh, my computer isn't detecting my player when i plug it in now, but be because i was unplugging it without safely removing hardware |
| 20:48:00 | O112358 | when ever i try to remove the device it just says that it can't be removed |
| 20:49:06 | Llorean | jhMikeS: The garbled lines fix for Sansa requires a new bootloader, no? |
| 20:49:08 | | Quit webguest13 ("CGI:IRC") |
| 20:51:05 | | Join The-Compiler [0] (n=florian@204.19.76.83.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 20:51:30 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 20:53:10 | | Quit O112358 () |
| 20:55:02 | | Quit senab ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]") |
| 21:00 |
| 21:00:58 | | Join flo [0] (n=flo@dslb-084-056-153-073.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:01:55 | | Nick datasleep is now known as datachild (n=datachil@217-208-144-87-no75.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 21:03:59 | flo | hi. i have a problem with the database on a sansa e260. i removed a file from the player but the database still contains an entry for the directory and the file inside. even when using "initialize now" or "update now". |
| 21:04:31 | | Quit flo (Client Quit) |
| 21:04:38 | bluebrother | have you checked the recycle bin? |
| 21:04:58 | bluebrother | hmm. Impatient or connection problems? |
| 21:05:56 | lostlogic | w00t, we're gonna get to write a wifi stack! |
| 21:06:08 | Llorean | Hahaha |
| 21:06:44 | lostlogic | hmm, only 16gb though :( |
| 21:07:49 | | Join AceNik [0] (n=AceNik@117.98.59.232) |
| 21:07:50 | Llorean | It seems more like a target for Rockbox-as-an-app assuming it's hackable in similar ways to the iPhone |
| 21:08:17 | lostlogic | indeed |
| 21:08:40 | linuxstb_ | How is the iPhone hackable? You mean you can run third-party apps on top of the existing OS? |
| 21:08:51 | Llorean | linuxstb_: So I've been lead to believe, at least. |
| 21:09:00 | lostlogic | all I know is that it's been jtag'd |
| 21:09:18 | | Join atsea-68 [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-05c3b94a64ba0b83) |
| 21:09:44 | * | linuxstb_ is starting to doubt the future of Rockbox - no-one is making DAPs any more... |
| 21:09:50 | AceNik | guys what exactly is supposed to happenw hen i connect the usb to my h10 when its off |
| 21:10:13 | lostlogic | linuxstb_: meaning they're all making "do everything gadgets" instead? |
| 21:10:20 | AceNik | linuxstb: well there will be a definately "ray of light" |
| 21:10:37 | amiconn | "do everything but nothing properly" :/ |
| 21:10:40 | linuxstb_ | lostlogic: Yep. Plus the focus on video features. |
| 21:10:49 | lostlogic | the new iPod classic at 80 and 160 gig looks promising actually. I wonder what it's got under the hood. |
| 21:11:17 | linuxstb_ | IMO it's almost certain the same as the 3rd Gen Nano, which is almost certainly the same as the 2nd Gen Nano... |
| 21:11:36 | Llorean | linuxstb_: I don't see any reason Rockbox couldn't move into media-playing too eventually |
| 21:11:46 | linuxstb_ | But I guess we'll see dissections on the usual websites soon |
| 21:12:14 | lostlogic | nano 2g is samsung SOC right? |
| 21:12:21 | n1s | yep |
| 21:12:29 | AceNik | linuxstb:any chance of rockbox entering phones? |
| 21:12:30 | linuxstb_ | lostlogic: Yes, plus the as-yet-uncracked encryption. |
| 21:12:56 | lostlogic | yeah, I bet there'll be more interest in it now ;) |
| 21:13:28 | linuxstb_ | AceNik: Don't ask me - Rockbox will go whereever people take it... |
| 21:13:29 | | Join Frazz [0] (n=Fraser@thelawsons.plus.com) |
| 21:13:33 | Llorean | AceNik: Haven't you asked this before, several times? |
| 21:13:38 | | Join O112358 [0] (n=irc@82-35-97-118.cable.ubr05.dals.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 21:14:02 | AceNik | Llorean: sorry , can you tell me about the usb ? |
| 21:14:12 | O112358 | god i'm stupid, my computer wasn't detecting my iriver because i was plugging my usb cable into the host socket, didn't know it even fitted in there |
| 21:14:14 | amiconn | AceNik: Tried the latest build already? Shouldn't crash anymore on db init... |
| 21:14:19 | O112358 | does rockbox have usb charging? |
| 21:14:55 | O112358 | and i just realised that the usb charging image looks differen't to me because i was running a really old build |
| 21:14:58 | amiconn | O112358: The USB host port uses a mini-AB socket that both accomodates mini-A and mini-B plugs |
| 21:15:13 | AceNik | amiconn: yes thanks, it doesn't, although it does crash after a couple of minutes of playing music, it hangs, does playing at higher volumes make a difference |
| 21:15:26 | O112358 | amiconn: unfortunate for people like me who don't look |
| 21:15:28 | linuxstb_ | lostlogic: Any plans to return to Rockbox hacking? |
| 21:15:28 | n1s | O112358: yes rockbox can usb charge |
| 21:15:56 | amiconn | This is meant for OTG devices, which can negotiate which device acts as host and which acts as device |
| 21:15:56 | n1s | but for it to be fast enough to be useful you need to enable a setting somewhere |
| 21:16:00 | O112358 | how do you get it to start charging? |
| 21:16:21 | O112358 | i have it plugged in but the charging logo isn't animating |
| 21:16:34 | amiconn | Afaik, the very same socket provides H300 MTP mode on US devices (at USB1.1 speed) |
| 21:16:45 | n1s | O112358: are you in USB mode? |
| 21:16:51 | AceNik | amiconn: that means automatic detection isnt possible on h10 yet, right, cause my h10 does nothin on usb being connected |
| 21:17:04 | amiconn | ? |
| 21:17:06 | O112358 | AceNik: well i have a giant usb plug on my screen |
| 21:17:29 | n1s | O112358: then unplug it and hold down the rec button when you plug it in again |
| 21:17:51 | O112358 | ok so it's not automatic? |
| 21:18:11 | | Join ficsch [0] (n=ficsch@dslb-084-056-153-073.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:18:22 | amiconn | I'm not sure whether the H300 charges from USB in rockbox |
| 21:18:36 | O112358 | n1s: argh, it went into recording mode |
| 21:18:43 | | Quit The-Compiler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:18:55 | O112358 | hehe |
| 21:18:59 | Llorean | amiconn: I'm *almost* certain it does. |
| 21:19:04 | amiconn | The hardware allows it, but powermanagement in rockbox isn't quit what it should be |
| 21:19:09 | n1s | amiconn: I think it does, a setting was added for it at least |
| 21:19:18 | * | linuxstb_ was about to say what n1s said |
| 21:19:28 | | Join My_Sic [0] (n=MySic@bas3-montreal28-1242530132.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:19:48 | petur | h3x0 does charge from usb |
| 21:19:48 | n1s | but as with most of rockbox's features I have never tried it |
| 21:20:14 | O112358 | maybe it's charging but i just can't see it |
| 21:20:21 | ficsch | hi. my database does not change after moving a file to another directory an removing the source dir. I already did "initialize now" and "update now". I have a sansa e260 |
| 21:20:27 | petur | it is a setting |
| 21:20:30 | n1s | O112358: did you enable the option? |
| 21:20:39 | O112358 | a little plug icon appears next to the battery meter, i have a feeling it stops the meter from doing the charging animation |
| 21:20:57 | petur | O112358: general settings -> system -> battery |
| 21:20:57 | O112358 | oh an option? |
| 21:21:08 | O112358 | why would anyone not want the player to charge from the usb? |
| 21:21:12 | n1s | O112358: I told you to do that already |
| 21:21:30 | n1s | O112358: because not all usb ports support it |
| 21:21:34 | O112358 | n1s: sorry i thought you were talking to someone else |
| 21:21:36 | AceNik | amiconn: new bug−−>player hangs after 1min or so of playing music |
| 21:22:01 | RudMan | fisch: did you reboot? |
| 21:22:05 | ficsch | yes |
| 21:22:18 | n1s | and if you try to draw more current than the port supplies it (should) kill the connection |
| 21:22:57 | O112358 | oh, that's a good reason to have a setting then |
| 21:23:11 | ficsch | RudMan: is it possible to delete the database from the file system to force a rebuild? Or shall i try debugging rockbox? Maybe it's a bug? |
| 21:23:18 | Genre9mp3 | pressing the rec button while inserting the USB cable will make the H300 charge... though it's a bit ugly that while doing so you get to the Recording screen as well |
| 21:23:35 | O112358 | hmm, i did a battery bench test yesterday on the first cycle of my brand new battery and it came out with some very odd values |
| 21:23:46 | Genre9mp3 | we should probably change this (use the Play button instead or something) |
| 21:24:12 | linuxstb_ | Genre9mp3: Is long-press on play currently unused? |
| 21:24:27 | n1s | Genre9mp3: also the rec screen comes up if you hold rec to reset settings on boot :-) |
| 21:24:58 | linuxstb_ | Who's idea was it to map the "rec" button to the recording screen? ;) |
| 21:25:11 | Genre9mp3 | linuxstb: No... at least not while on file browser |
| 21:25:13 | O112358 | it started off detecting a voltage of about 60 mV which went down to 2 mV over the period of an hour, then it jumped up to over 4000 mV (what one would expect) and then acted normally |
| 21:25:38 | Genre9mp3 | file browser/menu that is... |
| 21:25:41 | lostlogic | linuxstb_: yes, it is likely. I've been busy moving 2000 miles, buying a home and starting a new job for the past couple of months, but should finally have internet access at home tomorrow which might just might put rockbox back on my "way to spend time" radar. |
| 21:25:44 | linuxstb_ | Genre9mp3: What about the WPS? |
| 21:26:19 | linuxstb_ | lostlogic: Good to hear - playback.c has been asking after you... |
| 21:26:36 | Genre9mp3 | linuxstb: It's not mapped as well |
| 21:26:38 | O112358 | is that an issue with the battery bench plugin? seeing as it's impossible for my battery to be at such a low voltage and for the player still to run |
| 21:26:48 | RudMan | fisch: I had some issues with the database recently. it wasn't seeing the tags correctly. |
| 21:26:59 | RudMan | fisch: maybe there is something flaky with it |
| 21:27:04 | linuxstb_ | Genre9mp3: Then a feature request would seem in order (I don't own an H300).... |
| 21:27:47 | O112358 | has anyone else seen strange results like that while running battery bench tests? |
| 21:28:10 | | Quit linuxstb_ ("Client Exiting") |
| 21:28:13 | * | Genre9mp3 can't remember the shortcut to Pitch screen (from WPS) |
| 21:28:21 | ficsch | RudMan: you mean the database does not build correctly due to bad tags of mp3s? |
| 21:28:24 | Genre9mp3 | linuxstb: will do |
| 21:30:17 | O112358 | is there a posiblity that battery_bench was detecting the voltage wrongly? |
| 21:30:23 | RudMan | fisch: that's what it appeared to me. |
| 21:30:45 | amiconn | ficsch: I don't think there's a bug in the db rebuild (other than the crash bug I fixed this morning). If you deleted a folder but the files still appear in the database, it's most probably because you didn't delete for real, but the files are now in a recycle bin |
| 21:30:51 | RudMan | I rebuilt the tags on the files and the database appeared to work correctly again |
| 21:30:57 | amiconn | (where they will still be found by the database) |
| 21:30:59 | Genre9mp3 | ah... it's Play+ up(or down).... you just have to be a bit... quick |
| 21:31:30 | | Join googlegoogle [0] (n=chatzill@CPE-121-222-227-94.qld.bigpond.net.au) |
| 21:31:37 | googlegoogle | hey guys |
| 21:31:38 | | Quit AceNik ("bye guys have fun , enjoy !!!!!") |
| 21:31:45 | ficsch | RudMan: i'll try that |
| 21:32:05 | ficsch | amiconn: i delete it using rm -f on linux |
| 21:32:08 | Genre9mp3 | strange cause Play+AB (ID3 info shortcut) doesn't have the same behavior |
| 21:32:19 | amiconn | hmm |
| 21:32:25 | googlegoogle | is there any chance of rockbox going to the cowon D2 |
| 21:32:30 | ficsch | RudMan: do modify mp3s using windows or linux? |
| 21:32:51 | RudMan | I used a program called EZ Tag (I think) on windows |
| 21:33:00 | ficsch | ok |
| 21:33:43 | RudMan | but I didn't have the same problem as you, I had issues that the database wasn't even seeing my files or seeing most of them as untagged |
| 21:33:57 | ficsch | ok |
| 21:34:23 | ficsch | isn't it possible to delete the database from the file system to force a rebuild? do you know the file name? |
| 21:35:03 | RudMan | that I don't know |
| 21:35:36 | amiconn | ficsch: Sure, but I don't think the result will be different from normal "Initialise now" |
| 21:35:42 | RudMan | move all the files off the player, then run init now. shutdown, restart and see what is in the database |
| 21:35:50 | amiconn | /.rockbox/*.tcd |
| 21:39:26 | O112358 | yay i got my player to crash |
| 21:40:00 | n1s | O112358: what did you do? |
| 21:40:41 | O112358 | n1s: I deleted a file while i was playing it, i then pressed Navi to browse files and it crashed |
| 21:40:51 | O112358 | not surprising really |
| 21:41:33 | n1s | O112358: that is a known bug, that has been aroud for ages... unfortunately no one has fixed it yet |
| 21:41:49 | n1s | were there other files in the dir? |
| 21:42:01 | O112358 | hmm, why have a delete option when you hold down Navi while a song is playing anyway? |
| 21:42:17 | O112358 | the file was in my root |
| 21:42:25 | O112358 | it was something i had just recorded |
| 21:43:00 | n1s | O112358: yes but were there other music files in the root then ? |
| 21:43:22 | O112358 | erm, no |
| 21:43:40 | O112358 | why?# |
| 21:43:56 | O112358 | would it have been ok had there been other files for it to play? |
| 21:44:04 | n1s | ok, thanks, I guess it is actually two seperate bugs, the one I was thinking about was apparently fixed |
| 21:44:19 | | Quit jgarvey ("Leaving") |
| 21:44:21 | n1s | Yes I think so |
| 21:44:52 | | Quit DerPapst (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 21:45:29 | O112358 | the file deleted fine, then i assume it just carried on playing since the file was already loaded into the buffer, but when i pressed navi the total song time went to 00:00 and it just froze on that screen |
| 21:46:16 | O112358 | n1s: oh, and have you heard of people getting strange voltage values on battery bench tests before? |
| 21:46:34 | n1s | not that I can remember, no |
| 21:47:21 | O112358 | i can't see how it can be a problem with my battery, because had it actually been at 60 mV the player wouldn't have been running |
| 21:48:56 | n1s | hmm, yep sounds pretty weird... if rockbox would read very low values it should shut down with a battery warning anyway... |
| 21:48:59 | | Join billytwowilly [0] (n=chris@CABLE-72-53-22-61.cia.com) |
| 21:49:34 | O112358 | hmm, confusing |
| 21:50:02 | O112358 | could it be a bug? |
| 21:50:19 | O112358 | well it must be a bug |
| 21:50:26 | amiconn | It's a bug in battery_bench |
| 21:50:34 | n1s | dunno, I havent run battery bench for several months, does it read constantly 60mV ? |
| 21:50:40 | amiconn | ..introduced when switching to mV for battery voltages in rockbox |
| 21:50:41 | O112358 | amiconn: ahh so it's not just me? |
| 21:50:55 | amiconn | If voltage > 4.095V, it wraps to zero |
| 21:51:30 | O112358 | n1s: no it goes from 60mV to 0mV over an hour and then once it gets to 0mV it jumps up to the proper value |
| 21:51:55 | n1s | O112358: then it sounds like exactly what amiconn said :-) |
| 21:51:57 | amiconn | This is due to some bits in batt_info.voltage being used for other purposes |
| 21:52:01 | O112358 | that seems to obey amiconn's theory :D |
| 21:52:23 | * | amiconn looks at XavierGr |
| 21:52:39 | O112358 | yay mystery solved, thanks amiconn, i'll be able to sleep tonight |
| 21:52:43 | amiconn | XavierGr: Is there a special reason for this bit reuse, instead of using some bool members in the struct? |
| 21:53:29 | O112358 | seems like my battery is just too much of a beast for rockbox to handle hehe |
| 21:54:04 | amiconn | No, it's a plain bug |
| 21:54:17 | amiconn | ...but in battery_bench only. The rest of rockbox is okay |
| 21:54:37 | amiconn | Voltage >4.095V is expected for fully charged LiIon |
| 21:54:59 | googlegoogle | is there any chance of rockbox going to the cowon D2 |
| 21:56:28 | | Quit rocko (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 21:57:54 | BigBambi | googlegoogle: http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/NewPort |
| 21:58:11 | googlegoogle | thanks |
| 21:58:31 | BigBambi | np |
| 21:58:56 | | Join ender` [0] (i=krneki@84-255-206-8.static.dsl.t-2.net) |
| 21:59:09 | ficsch | hmmm i moved all directories from "music" to my harddisk (mv /mnt/mp3/music/* /tmp). then i chose "initialize now" and rebooted. then after choosing "database" i was asked to initilize the database. i chose yes. now there's msg. box "building database ... 512 found (prev to return)". the msg box is there for minutes now. |
| 21:59:23 | | Join jhulst [0] (n=jhulst@c-71-205-0-132.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 22:00 |
| 22:00:06 | amiconn | haha |
| 22:00:11 | * | amiconn pings Slasheri |
| 22:00:40 | amiconn | That's a known bug as well. The db won't finish initialising if there are no music files on the device |
| 22:00:53 | ficsch | kk ;) |
| 22:02:00 | Slasheri | argh :D |
| 22:02:08 | Slasheri | indeed, i haven't tried that yet.. |
| 22:02:16 | amiconn | Slasheri: Remember? I reported this months ago... |
| 22:02:34 | | Quit My_Sic ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org") |
| 22:03:10 | Slasheri | amiconn: yep, but i haven't had much time to do anything atm :/ |
| 22:03:19 | Slasheri | amiconn: will add that to the TODO :) |
| 22:07:53 | Hellmark | damn, looks like I'm getting a new iPod Nano |
| 22:08:26 | Hellmark | I mention I am looking at a new MP3 player, and they order me one. I was wanting a 4g or a mini to run rockbox on... |
| 22:08:50 | Hellmark | so, if there is anything I can do to help with the 3G nano, let me know |
| 22:11:48 | | Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)") |
| 22:12:14 | | Join Iamnotacrook [0] (n=chatzill@79-64-86-245.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 22:12:43 | | Quit austriancoder (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:14:07 | preglow | man, that new nano is ugly |
| 22:15:16 | Iamnotacrook | yeah |
| 22:15:51 | | Quit elinenbe (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 22:16:01 | preglow | now someone get cracking and figure out how to stuff rockbox on them :> |
| 22:16:08 | | Join japc [0] (n=japc@bl7-244-92.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 22:16:55 | japc | yellow |
| 22:17:05 | japc | i would like w access to the wiki |
| 22:17:07 | Iamnotacrook | hey im new to this so please dont flame me for anything (yet) i know that there is nothing for the nano 2nd gen yet but was wondering if there was any work being done on this and if there is any way i might help... an |
| 22:17:17 | japc | with whom should i talk ? |
| 22:20:13 | | Quit Iamnotacrook ("ChatZilla 0.9.78.1 [Firefox 2.0.0.6/2007072518]") |
| 22:23:17 | | Join creshal [0] (i=508cf183@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-1a382730498c66de) |
| 22:23:28 | creshal | 'lo guys. |
| 22:23:36 | pixelma | japc: there are a few here who could grant you access but only if you tell us your wiki name ;) |
| 22:24:28 | japc | ah, right |
| 22:24:31 | japc | JoseCelestino |
| 22:25:37 | creshal | Got a nasty problem with... um, every build for the iPod nano since the new menu structure was introduced (half year ago or sth. like that)... these versions just show a "data abort at (random hex number)". In the forums were no useful answers (or better, no answers)... is there a way to fix this? |
| 22:25:50 | | Quit ficsch ("[BX] Time wasted: 25 days 3 hours 1 minutes 57 seconds 96 milliseconds") |
| 22:26:22 | pixelma | japc: you should be able to edit the wiki now |
| 22:27:01 | | Quit merbanan (Remote closed the connection) |
| 22:27:28 | | Quit Frazz (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) |
| 22:27:38 | japc | thank you pixelma |
| 22:27:44 | japc | dinner and hack |
| 22:27:51 | japc | bye |
| 22:28:09 | pixelma | creshal: how old is your bootloader (when did you last update it)? |
| 22:28:11 | Bagder | creshal: you probably have a too old bootloader |
| 22:28:30 | creshal | ah, could be... should be a year old. |
| 22:28:38 | Bagder | then it is |
| 22:28:39 | creshal | ^^ |
| 22:28:48 | creshal | k, thanks. |
| 22:30:12 | | Join Stalwart [0] (n=stalwart@ip-10.154.Home-Lan.fastnet.lv) |
| 22:30:22 | Stalwart | is it joke or what? apple released 3g nano? |
| 22:31:03 | creshal | Nope, no joke... |
| 22:31:05 | Bagder | they released it |
| 22:31:12 | Bagder | and two other new ipods |
| 22:31:22 | Stalwart | holy crap |
| 22:31:29 | Stalwart | my nano is SO obsolete |
| 22:31:36 | Stalwart | (i have 1g) |
| 22:31:59 | | Join DerPapst [0] (n=DerPapst@p54BD2AAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:32:04 | preglow | is it just me, or are there no really serious attempts at cracking the nano2g? |
| 22:32:29 | DerPapst | it's not just you ;) |
| 22:32:40 | * | Stalwart cries |
| 22:33:02 | DerPapst | but that may change with the new ipods. |
| 22:33:17 | preglow | well, all of them are probably based on the same arch now |
| 22:33:27 | Stalwart | when did they released them? |
| 22:33:36 | DerPapst | the 3rd gen nano and the 6th gen iPod (the classic one) are decrypted as well |
| 22:33:41 | preglow | i dunno, though, i have a feeling apple has done their homework better now... |
| 22:33:56 | creshal | What? No encryption? Yay... |
| 22:34:03 | Bagder | DerPapst: you mean encrypted? |
| 22:34:06 | DerPapst | *encrypted |
| 22:34:09 | DerPapst | :P |
| 22:34:10 | preglow | yes... |
| 22:34:10 | Bagder | ah |
| 22:34:12 | Stalwart | ghm |
| 22:34:18 | * | Stalwart slaps DerPapst with a rubber dildo. |
| 22:34:21 | Stalwart | =[ |
| 22:34:26 | DerPapst | heh... |
| 22:34:28 | creshal | -.- |
| 22:34:32 | Stalwart | (my random slapper) |
| 22:34:43 | Stalwart | Some one needed the powerstrip, so they pulled the switch plug. |
| 22:34:49 | Stalwart | (my bofh excuses) |
| 22:36:10 | linuxstb | DerPapst: Has the encryption been confirmed for the 3G Nano and 6G, or are you just assuming? (I would agree with that assumption though). |
| 22:36:48 | creshal | Narf... it seems to run, but I can't find my earphones anymore... oO |
| 22:36:56 | Hellmark | linuxstb, encryption is not confirmed, just likely. |
| 22:37:09 | DerPapst | linuxstb: more some kind of insider knowledge ;) |
| 22:37:33 | Stalwart | rockbox will need multitouchscreen driver and new gui... oh boy... |
| 22:37:33 | DerPapst | so it's not h´just a guess. |
| 22:37:51 | | Quit Kingstone () |
| 22:37:56 | Stalwart | or maybe it's easier to port linux to touch ipod |
| 22:38:23 | DerPapst | or maybe just keep OSX and write apps |
| 22:39:03 | creshal | Well, I'm off... good night ev'ryone. ^^ And thanks again. |
| 22:39:08 | DerPapst | night |
| 22:39:11 | | Part creshal |
| 22:39:26 | Stalwart | DerPapst, you think it will be cracked to run native apps? |
| 22:39:38 | DerPapst | dunno. |
| 22:39:43 | | Join advcomp2019 [0] (n=advcomp2@66.172.231.192) |
| 22:39:56 | DerPapst | but i think it's nearly the same hardware wise like the iphone |
| 22:40:06 | DerPapst | s/wise// |
| 22:40:32 | Stalwart | right now i have nokia e61 which is as much pda as i need, so i think about buying subnotebook, and unreleased yet ASUS EeePC 10" seems to fit me 200% |
| 22:40:49 | preglow | what cpu does the iphone have again? samsung arm core? |
| 22:41:01 | Bagder | I think so |
| 22:41:31 | Stalwart | An analysis of the iPhone's firmware has revealed that the main Samsung chip (designated S5L8900) contains an ARM1176jzf processor, together with a PowerVR MBX 3D graphics co-processor.[67] |
| 22:41:36 | Stalwart | (c) wikipedia |
| 22:42:16 | Bagder | plenty of power to be able to run osx ;-) |
| 22:43:59 | Stalwart | it'd be even more cool with linux |
| 22:44:54 | Stalwart | multitouch x11 is already at beta stage and multitouch apps should arrive soon (which multitouchscreens becoming reality) |
| 22:45:11 | Stalwart | oh, and multitouch rockbox would rock too! |
| 22:46:21 | Llorean | Rockbox doesn't really have much use for multitouch at the moment. |
| 22:46:29 | linuxstb | Stalwart: Rockbox is a DAP firmware - I don't see its future as being a multi-purpose OS |
| 22:47:01 | Llorean | Were it ever ported to a touchscreen device, I'd just designate the edges of the screen the directional controls, and quadrants away from the edges four buttons or so. |
| 22:47:21 | Llorean | Or something similar after testing usability |
| 22:47:24 | tumu | rockbox doesn't really have much use for a phone at the moment :) |
| 22:47:40 | Stalwart | ipod touch != iphone |
| 22:48:03 | Bagder | ipod touch == iphone - phone ;-) |
| 22:48:11 | Llorean | But on anything needing/expecting a full OS, Linux is better suited, and a tailored Rockbox sim (or app) like in theory exists for that one phone (did we ever hear back 'bout that)? |
| 22:48:11 | linuxstb | Bagder: Faster than me... |
| 22:48:21 | linuxstb | Bagder: Isn't that just "i" ? |
| 22:48:37 | Bagder | yeah, "ipod touch == i" ;-) |
| 22:48:41 | Stalwart | i, robot |
| 22:48:45 | Stalwart | :D |
| 22:48:59 | linuxstb | Bagder: No, I am "ipod touch"... |
| 22:49:24 | Bagder | hahaha |
| 22:49:48 | tumu | talking about ports, has there been any about porting to generic dvd player chipsets? |
| 22:50:11 | Bagder | generic? |
| 22:50:22 | tumu | sort of |
| 22:50:33 | tumu | they usually come with 8bit micro plus an arm |
| 22:50:50 | Bagder | "usually"? really |
| 22:51:03 | tumu | and lot of integrated processing circuitry for audio and video |
| 22:51:09 | Bagder | I know AMD/ATI and Nec are big on that area, they also do lots of MIPS cores |
| 22:51:16 | tumu | as far as i've seen |
| 22:51:28 | Bagder | I poked on a Nec one for a DVB-T box |
| 22:51:33 | *** | Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" |
| 22:51:38 | Bagder | they have a whole family of such beasts |
| 22:51:50 | tumu | the manuf dvd player firmwares really can suck |
| 22:52:01 | | Join darkraven [0] (n=darkrave@tmo-081-232.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 22:52:08 | | Quit darkraven (Client Quit) |
| 22:52:27 | | Join freqmod [0] (n=freqmod@m072g.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 22:53:09 | DerPapst | rockbox as dvd player firmware replacement? i guess that's an entire different project :P |
| 22:53:26 | tumu | maybe, maybe not |
| 22:53:31 | tumu | they have framebuffers etc |
| 22:53:46 | tumu | can output raw audio if necessary |
| 22:55:34 | DerPapst | still you have to rewrite huge parts of rockbox (meaning more than 70% of the code) |
| 22:56:04 | Bagder | tumu: feel free to work on it, let us know how it turns out! ;-) |
| 22:56:15 | tumu | gee, thanks :) |
| 22:57:21 | Bagder | http://www.necel.com/digital_av/en/index.html |
| 22:57:22 | tumu | have to get my dvd player back from loan and start bricking it :p |
| 22:57:43 | Bagder | that's the EMMA series from NEC, seems to be fairly well used |
| 22:57:52 | Bagder | no public docs, MIPS multi-cores |
| 22:58:00 | | Quit perplexity (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) |
| 22:58:06 | | Quit desowin ("use linux") |
| 22:59:50 | | Quit RudMan (" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC has never been so good") |
| 23:00 |
| 23:01:06 | DerPapst | no public docs are a reason but no barrier :P |
| 23:01:10 | * | DerPapst hides |
| 23:01:18 | Bagder | haha, indeed |
| 23:01:25 | | Quit mtoups (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:01:31 | | Quit seablue ("life, death, life, death") |
| 23:07:08 | | Join linuxstb_ [0] (i=5343d4aa@rockbox/developer/linuxstb) |
| 23:09:07 | delYsid | what does mi4 actually stand for? |
| 23:09:46 | Bagder | delYsid: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MI4 :-) |
| 23:10:03 | Bagder | but seriously, there's no known explanation that I know of |
| 23:10:58 | linuxstb_ | That link is probably as good as any... |
| 23:12:57 | n1s | Sorry for the OT but I am jus shocked about how many of the comments I've read about those new ipods are about how they look must be more than half of all comments are either "fugly!" or "the best lookingngngngn thing evar!1" </OT> |
| 23:15:00 | japc | who gives a ff about the new ipods? great is the 2 year old hp140 i bought from ebay |
| 23:15:04 | japc | way better |
| 23:15:50 | n1s | personally I think my h300 is sort of ugly but I like it anyway, it's not like I sit looking at it all day |
| 23:16:21 | | Quit Febs (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) |
| 23:16:24 | japc | yeah. kind of ugly and bulky |
| 23:16:40 | japc | i just try not to make eye contact with him |
| 23:16:51 | japc | other than that is perfection |
| 23:16:55 | n1s | yep, if I ever manage to kill it I will get a smalle rplayer |
| 23:16:59 | Llorean | I just replaced the battery in my H120. Don't mind the way it looks at all, and plan to keep it running for as long as it can. |
| 23:17:22 | linuxstb_ | n1s: At least the "classic" isn't white any more... |
| 23:17:40 | japc | you replaced with a stock one or with a bigger ma Llorean ? |
| 23:17:55 | japc | linuxstb_: black is the new white :) |
| 23:18:14 | | Join webguest34 [0] (i=97c98a9f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/labb.contactor.se/x-a57b4473caf9d0cd) |
| 23:18:29 | linuxstb_ | I just want to get my hands on one of those 160GB drives... $349 is a lot to pay for a disk though. |
| 23:18:53 | Llorean | japc: Just a little bigger, 1700 |
| 23:19:08 | n1s | linuxstb_: true but for all I care my player could be neon-green with purple dots and pink fluff on it as long as it worked ok and sounded good :-> |
| 23:19:14 | chrisjs169 | just a random thought - does Rockbox adjust the time for DST (for players with RTC)? |
| 23:19:19 | Llorean | The 1300 was enough for my use, I just needed a new one since it was ancient, and I'm hoping to avoid the misc ballooning problems. |
| 23:19:25 | linuxstb_ | n1s: Good luck finding a manufacturer that agrees with that... |
| 23:19:45 | linuxstb_ | chrisjs169: No |
| 23:20:03 | linuxstb_ | chrisjs169: I think the idea is discussed for about 5 minutes twice a year... |
| 23:20:03 | chrisjs169 | linuxstb_, I didn't think so |
| 23:20:09 | n1s | I might try some custom painting as a theft prevention thing :-D |
| 23:21:27 | * | n1s goes to bed, goodnight everyone |
| 23:21:30 | | Part n1s |
| 23:22:35 | delYsid | huh? "return !!QUEUE_LEVEL;" |
| 23:22:50 | delYsid | Am I missing something or is this a typo? |
| 23:23:44 | delYsid | oh, IC... |
| 23:25:12 | | Quit BigBambi ("Leaving") |
| 23:26:26 | * | bluebrother wonders if he should add a "report problems here" to the rbutil thread |
| 23:26:41 | linuxstb_ | Add it to rbutil itself... |
| 23:26:50 | | Join BigBambi [0] (n=alex@86.66.198.24) |
| 23:27:03 | bluebrother | in what way? As a "problems?" menu entry in the help menu? |
| 23:27:20 | linuxstb_ | "Feedback" ? |
| 23:27:29 | linuxstb_ | But no, it's probably a bad idea... |
| 23:28:12 | linuxstb_ | Did you see the Sansa bug report in the forums - apparently rbutilqt didn't detect the device, but sansapatcher in the same usb session did? |
| 23:29:49 | bluebrother | I found a couple of thread which unspecifically mentioned problems with rbutil |
| 23:31:07 | linuxstb_ | I just read this one - http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=12434.0 |
| 23:31:50 | bluebrother | hmm −− strange. |
| 23:33:00 | bluebrother | too bad I don't own a sansa for testing myself. |
| 23:33:13 | linuxstb_ | Has anyone successfully installed the sansa bootloader with rbutilqt? |
| 23:33:24 | bluebrother | I don't know. |
| 23:33:32 | | Quit ompaul ("night all") |
| 23:33:49 | | Quit Guile`` ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'") |
| 23:34:03 | | Join Guile`` [0] (n=Guile@78.114.106.246) |
| 23:34:06 | bluebrother | someone with a sansa around willing to test? ;-) |
| 23:34:20 | linuxstb_ | Maybe some kind of table on the wiki page could be useful - so people can test bootloader and rockbox installs and tick the box if it worked... |
| 23:34:22 | Bagder | I can try it out tomorrow |
| 23:34:27 | bluebrother | well, if autodetection works it should be fine at least. |
| 23:36:12 | preglow | am i the only one annoyed by the white/gray frame around the rockbox.org tables? :> |
| 23:36:15 | linuxstb_ | bluebrother: Any luck with libusb? From the sound of things, jdgordon will soon have a bootloader patcher working for the E200R, but to use that will require libusb working with rbutil. |
| 23:36:21 | | Quit Guile`` (Client Quit) |
| 23:36:35 | | Join Guile`` [0] (n=Guile@78.114.106.246) |
| 23:36:52 | Stalwart | do you plan to fix http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/7510 - nano bug? |
| 23:37:02 | linuxstb_ | Who are you asking? |
| 23:37:03 | bluebrother | linuxstb_: well, libusb inclusion in rbutil isn't a problem. But it seems to always require the driver on windows. |
| 23:37:10 | Bagder | Stalwart: we plan to have no bugs at all |
| 23:37:21 | bluebrother | Stalwart: should I answer "no"? |
| 23:37:21 | | Part webguest34 |
| 23:37:32 | | Quit Guile`` (Client Quit) |
| 23:37:45 | | Join Guile`` [0] (n=Guile@78.114.106.246) |
| 23:37:45 | Stalwart | i'm using last working revision now... but at some point you'll implement some must-have feature... =\ |
| 23:37:58 | preglow | Stalwart: i might have a look at it some day |
| 23:37:59 | bluebrother | there are no must-have features ;-) |
| 23:38:05 | preglow | can't promise any more than that, my nano is not affected |
| 23:38:10 | Bagder | bluebrother: not even doom? |
| 23:38:21 | bluebrother | Bagder: remove doom! *g* |
| 23:38:33 | linuxstb_ | Couldn't we just lower the clock speed until the problem is fixed? |
| 23:38:55 | bluebrother | I could use libusb to detect the attached devices easily. But for detection only I don't want to require the user to install a driver. |
| 23:39:12 | bluebrother | it might be necessary to require for e200r installation. |
| 23:39:12 | preglow | linuxstb_: that'd qualify as a hack |
| 23:39:42 | DerPapst | Stalwart: you can always compile rockbox yourself and revert the patch that toubles nano |
| 23:40:15 | bluebrother | but I'm not really sure what's the best way. |
| 23:40:52 | linuxstb_ | preglow: I didn't say it wasn't... |
| 23:40:57 | Stalwart | if i ever set up toolchain i'll try to fix bug |
| 23:41:15 | DerPapst | setting up the toolchain is faily easy, |
| 23:41:22 | DerPapst | fixing this bug is not. |
| 23:42:09 | bluebrother | there is a pre-setup toolchain hidden in some vmware image ... |
| 23:42:30 | linuxstb_ | Or you type in the complicated command "tools/rockboxdev.sh" and go to bed |
| 23:42:46 | DerPapst | but i would compile myself a build excluding r14004 (or whatever breaks your nano) instead of waiting for someone to fix this bug. |
| 23:42:57 | DerPapst | heh | <
icon identifies that the person is a core developer (has commit access).