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#rockbox log for 2007-09-10

00:06:22 Join YouCeyE [0] (n=YouCeyE@unaffiliated/youceye)
00:08:52 Join JdGordon [0] (
00:09:42 Join wookey__ [0] (
00:10:21wookey__Sansa 280e arrived yesterday. ROckboxed it forthwith and it 'just works' - well done all!
00:10:41wookey__even plays movies
00:10:54wookey__I need to fiddle a bit more to find out how it all works
00:11:03wookey__then I can ehlp hack
00:11:16Bagderwe like that!
00:11:36amiconnlinuxstb: The very first call to get_next_data() (wrongly) detects end of stream on amd64...
00:11:49wookey__Any news on USB support for sansa? That is a very obvious missing piece that my wife is going to notice :-)
00:12:09Bagderwookey__: it's in the works at least
00:12:35wookey__yeah - austriancoder was doing google SoC on it I hear
00:13:25wookey__BTW is the default rockbox theme supposed to look like tiny monospace font with no colours/icons except yellow background?
00:13:37wookey__or did I do something wrong.
00:13:49Bagderit is that basic
00:14:21 Part rrae
00:14:23Bagderdiscussions tend to pop up every now and then on changing/improving that...
00:14:38wookey__OK. Even I was a bit disapointed on the bling front - and I'm a proper geek :-)
00:14:51wookey__It's a fairly hard-core initial imporession
00:15:14wookey__I can imagine people being put off before realising they can upload themes to their hearts content
00:15:23 Join funky [0] (n=repulse@unaffiliated/funky)
00:15:47 Join webguest46 [0] (i=4a469c81@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:15:47JdGordonthey are usually the trouble makers, so no loss
00:16:01wookey__perhaps that is true - it is a useful idiot-filter
00:17:01wookey__I just imigine if I told someone 'get rockbox it's great' they might be a bit disapointed with the defaults
00:17:49webguest46I have my datacd creator up but now i just need to know what to put in it. Is there an iso i have to download?
00:18:02 Quit floam ()
00:18:06wookey__default look - default settings seem fine, although backlight duration is very short if you don't already know how to drive device
00:18:08amiconnlinuxstb: If you take a look at the C versions of the CMP_3_CONST and CMP_4_CONST macros, what does that tell you?
00:18:26wookey__Anyway - thanx all - I'll be back - need to do some work now.
00:18:52webguest46This is complicated
00:19:25*amiconn spotted this by comparing a single-step run on linux/x86 and linux/amd64
00:21:37 Quit webguest46 ("CGI:IRC")
00:22:22 Quit petur ("*plop*")
00:23:44 Join BigBambi [0] (
00:24:25 Join webguest46 [0] (i=4a469c81@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:25:52webguest46forget it, this is too much for me. I don't know enough about linux to try tand make this work. For now, I'm just going to have to wait for the auto-installer.
00:25:53k-manis there a way to store music on rockbox so that rockbox and ipod software can use it?
00:27:02scorchewebguest46: what do you need to "try an make this work" for?...the instructions are very explicit and should open room for interpretation
00:27:11scorchek-man: using i-tunes
00:27:55k-manscorche, ok.... so if i load up the ipod with itunes, rockbox can read the files and use them?
00:28:07scorcheif you use database
00:28:50webguest46Well, i'm just confused about what files i put into this cd creator and then what to do after that so i can get rockbox on my e200r.
00:29:08k-manscorche, ok
00:29:20chrisjs169webguest46, try ISO Recorder - on some computers it doesn't work well, but on others it's fine
00:29:35webguest46sorry if i sound annoying, i'm not trying to
00:30:12webguest46What iso do i have to use. Is there an iso i need?
00:30:21chrisjs169webguest46, download a copy of linux
00:30:29chrisjs169webguest46, that program is only for burning the iso to a cd
00:30:43amiconnFixing these macros fixes mpegplayer on 64 bit sims
00:30:43scorcheamiconn: ?
00:31:04webguest46OH, i think i'm finally starting to understand. Thank you
00:31:54 Quit Febs ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
00:31:58advcomp2019webguest46, you need to somehow burn a iso to a cd... cdburnerxp pro have it right in the file menu "write disc from image"
00:32:11k-manif my ipod is formatted in win32, can i use it as an ipod with a mac?
00:32:11k-manor will the mac want to reformat it?
00:33:31webguest46advcomp2019: does that program cost anything?
00:33:38 Nick Febs_ is now known as Febs (
00:33:41advcomp2019it is free
00:36:14webguest46i'm downloading it from megaupload right now
00:36:34amiconnadvcomp2019: just freeware or true open source?
00:36:41 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
00:36:48amiconn(The site doesn't tell, or at least I can't find it)
00:36:57advcomp2019it is freeware not open source
00:37:39amiconnInfra recorder is an open source burning app
00:37:55linuxstbamiconn: Nice find in mpegplayer. Not my code though...
00:38:24advcomp2019it works great with cd burning but i have not had good lunk yet with dvds and they are working it out still
00:38:50amiconnlinuxstb: I saw that shift up & down solution for extracting bytes in numerous places, and I must say I don't like it
00:39:04 Quit k-man ("Leaving")
00:39:14amiconnA shift + and 'and' are clearer, and not as data size dependent
00:39:43amiconn(and in this case, the operations are compile-time, so it's not influencing performance at all)
00:40:30linuxstbamiconn: I agree - I always use shift and &
00:41:16amiconnIt seems that it works on 32 bit just by coincidence - iirc the preprocessor calculates everything in 64 bit
00:41:23amiconn(on all platforms)
00:42:09 Quit seablue ("life, death, life, death")
00:42:11webguest46okay, got the program downloaded, now i just need to download linux
00:42:22 Quit Buschel ()
00:42:34linuxstbSVN now only blames me for 20% of mpegplayer.c, and most of that are comments...
00:44:14 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (
00:44:23amiconnAh, so jhMikeS is to blame....
00:45:21linuxstbYes, 13094 was when I stopped working on it, and jhMikeS started.
00:45:33 Quit sofianbabai ()
00:45:40 Join advcomp2019_ [0] (n=advcomp2@
00:45:46webguest46It is asking me what i want to open the .iso file with. What should i select?
00:45:46 Quit advcomp2019 (Nick collision from services.)
00:45:52 Nick advcomp2019_ is now known as advcomp2019 (n=advcomp2@
00:46:08linuxstbwebguest46: What is asking you that?
00:46:44linuxstbJust tell it to save the file.
00:46:45Bagdertwo comments in that slashdot article mentioned rockbox, and we've gotten ~700 referes from them as of now
00:46:48webguest46open with: or save to disk
00:46:50advcomp2019you need to save it
00:46:53 Quit My_Sic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:47:09linuxstbBagder: Isn't that Soap?
00:47:36Bagderah yes it is, I didn't notice that
00:47:40webguest46Okay, now i wonder how long it will take to download
00:48:24advcomp2019takes a few hours here but that depends on your connection
00:48:31 Quit ender` (" If I had only finished this sentence,")
00:49:17webguest46well, i'm using roadrunner, the connection is okay
00:51:49webguest46so linux can't mess up windows in anyway right?
00:52:07advcomp2019if you use the livecd it should not
00:52:16 Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
00:52:23n1swebguest46: unless you do something really stupid :-)
00:53:49***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
00:55:14webguest46it's downloading at about 3.0KB/sec
00:56:46advcomp2019what kind of connection do you have
00:58:52 Nick eigma is now known as cat (
00:58:57 Nick cat is now known as eigma (
01:04:37Chrononwebguest46: maybe bit torrent might be faster?
01:05:11advcomp2019or use a download manager that downloads from other site
01:05:35advcomp2019with that file
01:05:36webguest46how much of a time difference would that be
01:06:03advcomp2019that can save lots of time
01:06:34webguest46do you have a link to a torrent i could use
01:06:35advcomp2019if you have cable and it is only downloading at 3KB/sec
01:08:13linuxstbwebguest46: Which file are you downloading? The gparted iso?
01:08:40 Nick fxb__ is now known as fxb (
01:09:49 Nick fxb is now known as fxb__ (
01:10:35ChrononI'm not sure what .iso you're trying to download. Try googling for that .iso and torrent. Many sites have .torrents as well as direct downloads.
01:11:00advcomp2019if you use firefox a download manager you could use is called DownThemAll
01:11:47 Quit webguest46 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:12:43*linuxstb blames his ISP...
01:12:55linuxstb^webguest46's ISP
01:14:33advcomp2019i was going to tell him to use utorrent if he goes the torrent way
01:21:38eigmaI'm getting a compile error in firmware/pcm_playback.c:277. looking at, there looks like there's a trailing "." on line 277.. even with that removed, I get a "samples not declared" because my processor isn't PNX0101..
01:22:24linuxstbeigma: Which target are you building for?
01:23:16eigmanew port, olympus m:robe 500i
01:23:27eigmawe haven't modified that file at all
01:23:48linuxstbYes, that . looks like a typo. That part of the code must be unused for all current targets...
01:24:28eigmaand what about "samples"?
01:24:38eigmais that block supposed to be executed only for the PNX0101?
01:24:43eigma*that _entire_ block
01:25:37n1slinuxstb: yeps, it's swcodec only and inside #if !defined(CPU_PP) as well as #if !defined(CPU_COLDFIRE) && (CONFIG_CPU != S3C2440)
01:25:59n1swhich neatly covers all targets :-)
01:26:01linuxstbeigma: What CPU do you have?
01:27:50linuxstbI think you'll need to create a pcm-something file in the target-tree (firmware/target), and change pcm_playback.c so it ignores that code for your CPU.
01:28:26 Quit obo ("bye")
01:28:44eigmasure, but it seems that something is still broken
01:28:46 Join webguest46 [0] (i=4a469c81@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
01:29:19n1sthis seems like a lot of half-baked target treeing
01:29:24linuxstbThe problem is that the PNX0101 port is a one-man job, and that man isn't around very much...
01:30:01linuxstbBut yes, it does need fixing.
01:30:10webguest46sorry, got disconnected
01:30:43webguest46now what about torrents
01:31:01webguest46sorry if i interupted a conversation
01:33:20 Quit funky ("leaving")
01:34:23webguest46should i search for it on google
01:34:46advcomp2019torrect would let you download from many host that has the file same with a download manager
01:34:52linuxstbwebguest46: Do you get faster speeds than 3KB/s from other sites?
01:36:21advcomp2019or can you do a speed test to your internet connection
01:36:41 Part n1s
01:40:15 Quit einhirn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:40:42eigmalinuxstb: okay, so why isn't that code in target/arm/pnx0101?
01:40:58linuxstbeigma: Simply because no-one has put it there...
01:41:06linuxstbtarget-tree is still a work-in-progress.
01:41:08eigmahm :(
01:41:28eigmadoes anyone have a PNX0101 to test a patch if I write one?
01:42:46linuxstbThat's the problem - only one person does. I don't even know if the iFP port builds without error at the moment. But if you write a patch, I'm sure someone will commit it - if we break the port, the porter can fix it.
01:44:01eigmaI'll definitely make sure it doesn't break the build.. but I definitely have no way of checking it on real hardware
01:44:09eigma(the build is already broken, heh)
01:44:25 Join [nc17] [0] (
01:45:06[nc17]question... been using RB for a few days and i just plugged into the pc to charge and the bootloader screen came up, slowly got white lines and faded to red then black and now it wont turn off
01:45:11[nc17]using e250R
01:46:16webguest46do i need to download a torrent program, and if i do does anybody have a suggestion
01:46:57advcomp2019you can use utorrent
01:48:07 Quit [nc17] (Client Quit)
01:48:31 Quit BHSPitLappy (Remote closed the connection)
01:48:33 Part pixelma
01:48:58chrisjs169[nc17] seemed impatient
01:49:12linuxstbwebguest46: You seem to be ignoring everyone's questions...
01:51:47webguest46Your'e right, sorry about that. I'm being too selfish. I'm just eager to get everything running.
01:55:48Chrononwebguest46: The questions were intended to see if your ISP is the weak link. If that's the case then a torrent probably won't help much.
01:56:00 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
01:56:46 Quit jhulst (Remote closed the connection)
01:56:54 Quit webguest46 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
01:59:42Soaplinuxstb, Bagder: How did you know that was me?
01:59:51SoapSorry I didn't get that modded up higher.
02:00:25maxkelleyto boot into the previous firmware, I need to rename the sandisk firmware.mi4 to OF.mi4, and place it in SYSTEM, right?
02:00:35ChrononSoap: email address, I'm guessing.
02:00:51 Join webguest46 [0] (i=4a469c81@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
02:00:54Soapstill, to put those two together.
02:01:23Soapis my alter-ego that well know? ;)
02:01:29webguest46sorry, i didn't see the questions because i keep getting deisconnected for some reason
02:04:33 Join RudMan [0] (
02:06:47 Quit webguest46 ("CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)")
02:10:05 Quit Thundercloud (Remote closed the connection)
02:11:48 Quit Marslyr ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
02:16:38 Join webguest46 [0] (i=4a469c81@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
02:17:54 Quit webguest46 (Client Quit)
02:18:02 Join webguest46 [0] (i=4a469c81@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
02:20:35webguest46i'm back
02:31:16webguest46i have the torrent downloading and it is moving much faster. Thanks everyone
02:31:31eigmaanyone know what the right syntax for new files is for those "$Id: pcm-coldfire.c....$" lines
02:31:40 Join {NV}AimLXJ [0] (
02:31:55{NV}AimLXJWow o.O
02:32:02eigmalinuxstb: who is the pnx0101 porter? Linus Nielsen Feltzing?
02:33:30linuxstbNo, Tomek Malesinski
02:33:42eigmaI'll put the moved code under his (C)
02:34:00linuxstbYes, sounds right.
02:34:35linuxstbBTW, how's your port going?
02:36:01eigmakkurbjun has barely gotten the bootloader working
02:36:18eigmaour platf can only load a few KB straight from the orig firmware
02:36:22LloreanWhat port is this?
02:36:23eigmaso we might do a two-stage load
02:36:26eigmam:robe 500i
02:36:30LloreanAh, right
02:38:08{NV}AimLXJCan someone help me?
02:38:23scorcheonly if you ask a question...
02:38:59{NV}AimLXJWell, I'm using a Sansa E260 player and it takes so long to recharge with the original firmware, howcome?
02:39:15advcomp2019how long
02:39:24{NV}AimLXJAobve 6 hours
02:39:58LloreanThis isn't really a place for questions about the original firmware, though.
02:40:17{NV}AimLXJI know but after I installed RockBox the recharging takes so long.
02:40:50LloreanTry uninstalling Rockbox and seeing if the charging still takes long, them.
02:41:04{NV}AimLXJBut I wanna keep my RockBox :O
02:41:31LloreanYes but you should verify whether it's Rockbox causing the problem...
02:42:13linuxstbeigma: So how do you run code? Some kind of exploit in the original firmware?
02:42:52{NV}AimLXJDoes the bootloader have to do with anything?
02:43:17{NV}AimLXJBecause from a majority on people over a forum has the same problem.
02:43:59Llorean{NV}AimLXJ: Well, someone who's experiencing the problem needs to do proper testing, and fill in a proper bug report afterward.
02:48:37 Part {NV}AimLXJ
02:50:30 Join My_Sic [0] (
02:50:32 Quit webguest46 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
02:50:47 Quit Llorean (Remote closed the connection)
02:51:03 Join Llorean [0] (
02:52:31eigmalinuxstb: shirour, one of the original developers on the m:robe, modified a firmware image to execute code out of an SVG file
02:53:44linuxstbThat was nice of him... ;)
02:53:52***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
02:54:01linuxstbI assume he isn't an Olympus employee any more then?
02:54:26 Join Jasen [0] (
03:00:38 Part Jasen
03:03:06eigmawas he expecting a welcoming committee?
03:03:40linuxstbHe stayed longer than some people do...
03:04:08wookey__ones who have failed to grok irc
03:08:36maxkelleyI can't get graphics for wps's to work on the c200.
03:08:58 Part linuxstb ("Leaving")
03:09:04 Join linuxstb [0] (n=linuxstb@rockbox/developer/linuxstb)
03:09:42 Quit miepchen^schlaf ("Verlassend")
03:12:40linuxstbmaxkelley: Can you get them to work on other targets?
03:13:58alienbiker99is there to a way to see the 4 weeks of commits still?
03:14:54linuxstbThe page is still in the same place, just not linked.
03:18:00 Quit My_Sic ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.")
03:21:29 Quit newbyx86 ()
03:22:50 Join newbyx86 [0] (
03:23:39 Part hcs
03:26:01 Join kkurbjun [0] (
03:26:14 Join saratoga [0] (i=98039a9c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
03:29:10saratogalinuxstb: I can't remember, did I already ask you about APEV2 tags?
03:30:12linuxstb(not that I can remember at least...)
03:30:57saratogaok then :)
03:31:12saratogawhat was the reason the APEV2 for MP3 patch wasn't accepted ?
03:31:40saratogaI haven't found a good explination
03:33:01linuxstbIIUC, 1) There are philosphical objections - APE tags don't belong on MP3 files. 2) Plus technical - it shouldn't be necessary to perform extra seeks and disks reads to check for APE tags, but the fact that the id3 code is still in firmware/ and the ape code is in apps/ means they can't be unified easily.
03:33:51saratogalinuxstb: looking at it now, I don't believe it will cause an extra seek, since the patch seems to only look for APEv2 tags after a looking for ID3v1
03:34:14saratogasince the APEV2 tag comes before the ID3v1 tag, it would already be in buffer
03:34:40linuxstbI thought apev2 tags are at the end of the file?
03:34:51saratogayes, immediately before the ID3v1 tag
03:35:01linuxstbNo, afterwards...
03:35:11saratogano before
03:35:18saratogaID3v1 is always the last 128 bytes of the file
03:36:45LloreanDo we always check for ID3v1, or only if v2 isn't found or "v1 before v2" is set for the priority?
03:37:17saratogai think the current patch (if I understand it correctly) only searches for an APEv2 tag if ID3v2 fails
03:38:04saratogaso searching for an APEv2 tag should never happen seperately from an ID3v1 tag
03:38:11linuxstbIt's been a long time since I looked at it, but doesn't the patch read the end of the file twice - once in id3.c and once in metadata.c ?
03:38:43saratogalinuxstb: do you mean metadata.c?
03:39:51linuxstbYes... (as the code was before it was split).
03:41:01saratogalinuxstb: I couldn't remember if they were the same
03:41:08saratogabut no, it only reads the file in ape.c
03:41:23 Join My_Sic [0] (
03:41:25saratogaalthough, all mp3 files without an ID3v2 tag would be searched for an APEv2 tag
03:41:45saratogai suppose thats obvious though
03:42:32saratogaanyway the patch seems quite harmless to non-ape users
03:42:51linuxstbSo there won't be any extra disk reads for non-ape users?
03:42:52saratogait jsut does single read from a part of the file that must be in buffer, and branches back if nothing is found
03:43:40linuxstbget_metadata() does direct disk reads - not reads from the buffer.
03:44:11 Quit newbyx86 ()
03:44:46saratogalinuxstb: heres the check
03:44:47saratoga(ecread(fd, &header, 1, APETAG_HEADER_FORMAT, IS_BIG_ENDIAN) != APETAG_HEADER_LENGTH)
03:45:01saratogai assumed thats from the audio buffer, but if not, then it would be a problem
03:45:55saratoga|| (memcmp(, "APETAGEX", sizeof(
03:46:06 Join newbyx86 [0] (
03:46:08saratoga(sorry, didn't realize that the second line didn't paste)
03:46:18linuxstbNo. Plus the same functions are used when building the database...
03:47:51saratogalinuxstb: ok that makes a lot of sense
03:48:10saratogafor some reason I thought tags were read directly from the audio buffer
03:48:37linuxstbNo, and even if they were, tracks longer than the buffer wouldn't have the tags in RAM...
03:48:59 Quit Pyromancer (Remote closed the connection)
03:49:13linuxstbget_metadata() is called independently to the file buffering - before the track is loaded, and in advance for the next track.
03:49:23 Quit gromit` (Remote closed the connection)
03:50:24saratogaits not worth trying to run that seek out of the buffer if possible?
03:50:58linuxstbI'm not sure what you mean.
03:51:27saratogasorry, I mean since we load tracks into the audio buffer anyway, why not read the metadata then
03:51:39saratogain order to save that extra seek
03:52:03 Quit actionshrimp ("( :: NoNameScript 4.01 :: )")
03:52:09saratogaor i suppose in the case of mp3, several seeks as you go through the tag flavors it supports
03:52:23linuxstbBecause it's too late - you need the metadata before the end of the file is buffered.
03:52:31linuxstb(to display in the WPS).
03:52:59saratogathat makes sense
03:53:21eigmalinuxstb: I'm having trouble reproducing this clean build: ping me when you have a sec?
03:53:27saratogaso a proper apev2 patch must somehow do the check for the apev2 tag and the check for id3v1 at the same time?
03:54:16linuxstbsaratoga: I believe so. But id3v1 tags are only checked for when there is no id3v2 tag...
03:54:43eigmalinuxstb: shoot, nevermind
03:54:57linuxstbeigma: OK.
03:56:24LloreanApeV2 tags would need another priority setting then.
04:00:10 Quit qweru ("moo")
04:01:52saratogalinuxstb: I was thinking of simplying ignoring APEv2 tags if theres an ID3v2 tag present
04:02:19saratogain that case its almost certainly just a left over tag from mp3gain
04:02:21 Join Pyromancer [0] (
04:02:51saratogasince virtually all real apev2 tag writers are id3v2 aware and strip the tags anyway
04:04:12eigmawhere can I find a list of the platform IDs for the columns on
04:04:51saratogaanyway, i have to get some sleep
04:05:01saratogai will look into this further another day
04:05:04saratogathanks for the info
04:06:49eigmaokay, actually, what I want to do is run a local build server just for myself to make sure that my changes don't break anything
04:07:14SoapI know APE isn't "supposed" to be on MP3, but one of the popular programs (Foobar) used to default to ID3v1 and APE instead of ID3v1 and ID3v2.
04:07:47SoapAnd yes, I know that just because someone else did it wrong doesn't mean Rockbox should do it wrong as well.
04:07:50LloreanUsed to, though.
04:07:52saratogaand mp3gain still does unfortunately
04:08:37saratogawhich is annoying, since the two apps that support replaygain on windows both support APEV2
04:08:46 Quit saratoga ("CGI:IRC")
04:08:53SoapFoobar 0.8.3 even went so far as to default to removing ID3v2 and replacing them with APE whenever a file operation was performed.
04:09:32SoapFoobar 0.8.3 even would write ID3v2 replaygain tags, you just had to turn off the APE default.
04:09:36LloreanIsn't ID3v1 vs v2 the only case where we have multiple tagging formats support?
04:09:46*Llorean use 0.8.3 w/ ID3v2 replaygain. :)
04:18:42 Quit Llorean (Remote closed the connection)
04:18:57 Join Llorean [0] (
04:19:20 Quit Llorean (Remote closed the connection)
04:19:37 Join Llorean [0] (
04:29:25 Join ajp [0] (
04:30:00eigmawhere do I get
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04:35:34eigmaBadger: ping
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05:53:30chrisjs169eigma, what do you need acbuild for?
05:54:53*chrisjs169 has a copy
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06:00:45eigmaI just wanted to see how it scripted configure
06:00:51eigmaI ended up just rolling my own
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06:29:54AaronI'm working on learning C++ and I was wondering how it differs from C. Is C better for hardware that isn't running an operating system?
06:30:18eigmaC is traditionally used for OS code
06:30:25scorchei would suggest you join a channel such as #c for that
06:30:43eigmaactually, that makes a lot of sense
06:31:18AaronAlright, well I just wanted to confirm that C++ couldn't be used with Rockbox
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06:41:39Aaronscorche - Have you ever come across any online resources that explain how to go about learning how to interact with basic hardware, like a Hello World tutorial for an Ipod.
06:42:59scorchei very much doubt that one exists...there is much involved in the matter including getting your code to run, being able to write to the lcd, etc
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07:51:41in-janegood morning
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08:04:18docgonzohello again.
08:04:30docgonzoanyone alive in here tonight?
08:04:58docgonzohow you doing today/night?
08:05:08eigmagood, good
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08:20:30GodEatertumbleweed a plenty this morning I see
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08:30:24docgonzoi was wondering about the themes and graphics for rockbox.
08:30:50docgonzoi have a sansa e200-series player and i was wondering if there are graphics like the original mfg firmware.
08:31:27GodEaterdocgonzo: I don't think so
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08:32:35docgonzob/c the base install i did is blk/white lcd-style and pretty boring :-)
08:32:52scorchethere are many other themes to choose from
08:33:14*GodEater curses the forums slowing down just as he was going to reply
08:34:13advcomp2019there is a themes in the extra area am i right
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08:34:48GodEater"extra area" ?
08:35:00GodEateroh - no - that's just the font pack
08:35:14hermonskii would like the honor of asking today's stupid question, if i may
08:35:28advcomp2019this page...
08:35:38LinusNhermonski: just ask
08:35:59GodEateradvcomp2019: you need the font pack for most themes to look as their author intends
08:36:14hermonskinone of the current distros will work on the newly-released ipod classic, correct?
08:36:33GodEaterhermonski: correct
08:36:42advcomp2019o ok did not know because i have not played with rockbox yet
08:36:43GodEaterhermonski: and aren't likely to for a very very long time
08:36:51scorche(we call them builds for different targets)
08:37:15docgonzolooking through the themes section right now, thanks
08:37:22hermonskibuilds, sorry.
08:37:34docgonzoany good information for making your own themes or altering someone else's?
08:37:38GodEaterhermonski: it's not a particularly dumb question. I'm disappointed ;)
08:37:48scorchedocgonzo: there are a few guides in the wiki
08:38:22hermonskiGodEater: lol, i always feel like a n00b asking basic questions, so like to apologise in advance for possible stupidity :)
08:40:33GodEaterhermonski: well, it wasn't stupid, but it *has* been answered a lot on the rockbox forums in the last week or so...
08:41:10hermonskiah, substitute 'stupid' for 'annoying' then
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08:43:41*GodEater notes that Toshiba have now managed to cram 120GB on a single platter 1.8" drive apparently
08:44:08*scorche notes that is the third time it has been brought up in here
08:44:30scorche(slashdot carries news slowly)
08:45:31hermonskiis there a particular reason there won't be a version for the classic "for a very very long time"? (i haven't been able to connect to the forums all day, keep getting a 'server busy' error, so aplogies for not searching there first)
08:45:53scorchehermonski: it requires an entirely new port
08:46:02hermonskiah. thank you
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08:50:26GodEaterhermonski: in brief, it's entirely new hardware, so although cosmetically similar to previous ipods on the outside, it's NOTHING like them on the inside. This hardware is completely undocumented. We're also working on the assumption that Apple have encrypted their own firmware on it too, as they did with the 2nd Gen Nano, which makes reverse engineering nigh on impossible.
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08:56:21hermonskiGodEater: many thanks for that. it's a shame really, as i know i'm not the only one who will not buy an ipod because of the awful software it uses (not to mention having to run itunes, ugh). can't fully figure the logic there, but it seems to erap them plenty of financial rewards
08:57:13LinusNhermonski: you underestimate the power of sheep herding
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09:00:10LinusNmoshi moshi
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09:00:43hermonskii really wish i didn't. i just can't believe that not one developer at apple at some point paused and said 'you know, maybe we're forcing people to use this thing in only one particular way, that isn't overly friendly'
09:01:37hermonskiguess i'd better start MY OWN mp3 company and out-sell ipods. that'll show them
09:02:09circusbearIm having trouble loading rockbox onto my player]
09:02:19LinusNcircusbear: which model?
09:02:37LinusNhermonski: good luck with that :-)
09:02:42scorchecircusbear: what trouble are you having?
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09:04:07LinusNcircusbear: you are a brave man trying to install on the r model ;-)
09:04:26circusbearsanspatcher dosn't find my player
09:04:38scorchecircusbear: you must follow the instructions in the wiki
09:04:47circusbearafter extracting .rockbox into the player directory
09:04:50GodEateras I said in my reply to your post on the forums...
09:05:01LinusNcircusbear: are you sure your player is set to MSC mode?
09:05:20circusbearwhats wrong with this model?
09:05:22scorchebe be all of it before you try, and if you are uncomfortable with any of it, do not install it as the recovery procedure is just as hard as installing rockbox
09:05:30docgonzohm... when i plug in my sansa to my winxp box, the player shows the USB cable-icon, but windows doesn't make any attempt to detect it...
09:05:53B4gdercircusbear: it is... slightly different
09:05:53scorchedocgonzo: you must boot into the OF to connect
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09:05:59docgonzorockbox didn't seem that hard to install on the sansa player.
09:06:13B4gderdon't confuse e200 with e200R
09:06:15scorchedocgonzo: it is a different procedure for the Rs
09:06:15B4gdernotice the R
09:06:18docgonzoAH... the OF firmware. how do you select which to boot when you first turn on the player.
09:06:27scorchehold <<
09:06:29docgonzoyea, the e200 is pretty straight-forward from what i read/did.
09:06:41docgonzothe type -R for rahpsody, right?
09:07:07docgonzoi'm sure it's got some special DRM-crap for it, or something, right?
09:07:34LinusNcircusbear: what instructions did you follow?
09:07:41docgonzoscorche: how do you choose which firmware to boot at the player startup/boot?
09:07:48circusbearso where does it talk about how to instal with r
09:08:05scorchedocgonzo: i just told you
09:08:17scorcheLinusN: no no!
09:08:40scorchelink to that one first =)
09:08:47GodEateryeah, definitely don't start with the windows ones
09:08:48advcomp2019in the forum circusbear says he has mac os
09:09:06scorchewe already had one person do that step without the first step, and i dont wish for that to happen again
09:09:16LinusNi see
09:09:47docgonzoah... i see; sorry, i thought it was a typographical error.
09:10:00scorchecircusbear: follow my link and pay attention to that red text ;)
09:11:21hermonskithanks for answering my questions all. enjoy. :)
09:11:37circusbearcan I do that first part on my mac?
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09:12:09scorchecircusbear: good question...
09:12:37scorchei guess we will have to have someone test that..
09:12:55scorchelinuxstb: do you know if anyone has tried e200tool on a mac?
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09:14:32circusbearI dont think I can do the linux part
09:14:40docgonzoi'm running that video test on teh wiki with the elephant_dream mpeg.
09:14:44scorchethen dont try =)
09:14:46docgonzogood stuff. neat animation.
09:14:59GodEatercircusbear: if you can't do it, then you can't run rockbox on your sansa, so don't do any of the steps at all
09:15:01docgonzoi haven't tried to mount this player on my linux notebook.
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09:15:49docgonzoi got my ipod_mini to mount and read/write without trouble. i haven't tried it with the rockbox firmware... ::thinks:: maybe it would be worth trying on that player
09:16:26GodEaterit won't mount whilst running rockbox, it'll just reboot into disk mode
09:17:06docgonzoso you will still need to boot the original firmware to access the disk?
09:17:13circusbearCould you work on a zip that has all that done
09:17:18GodEaterdocgonzo: currently yes
09:17:24circusbearthen you can extract it
09:17:38GodEatercircusbear: if by "zip" you mean, "an easier install process", then yes - we are
09:17:54GodEatercircusbear: we only got the R series working with Rockbox last week - it's still early days
09:18:12B4gderzip is short for "ze iiieser process" :-)
09:21:28LinusNB4gder: go stand in the corner
09:21:58*B4gder selects the shiny corner without the bars on the window
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09:22:39GodEaterwe have windows in here ?
09:22:50*GodEater thought this was a linux only channel
09:22:50*petur looks away
09:22:52GodEaterboom boom
09:23:03*GodEater elects to stand in the corner opposite BAgder
09:23:06JdGordonyou forgot the tish..
09:23:11JdGordonsilly bugger
09:23:17GodEaterJdGordon: I knew you'd supply it for me ;)
09:23:31*petur woners why JdGordon needs a table
09:23:55Mode"#rockbox +v B4gder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
09:23:59Mode"#rockbox +v GodEater " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
09:24:23JdGordonpetur: which language is tish table?
09:24:34docgonzook, 12:30am here in California,USA. I'm heading off to join the woman in bed. good night and thank you for all the help!
09:24:38JdGordonok, that would make sense
09:24:58GodEater+v is the poor humour award for today
09:25:01JdGordondocgonzo: pics or it didnt happen :p
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09:25:41docgonzoyea, i think tonight we're gonna slip in and doze off... she's been studying for generals and i've got the office in the morning :-)
09:25:54in-janehow's it going with the USB support for Sansa e200 series? May i expect it to work in future?
09:26:02scorcheGodEater: something like that...
09:26:08GodEaterin-jane: expecting it to work is a good bet
09:26:16GodEaterin-jane: as for when, that's a different question
09:26:38docgonzoand i've got my Beer Judge Certification Program tuesday night in LA :-) 6 weeks, then the national beer judge exam, and i'll be a certified judge :-)
09:26:41in-janeok. nice!
09:27:07*petur bows
09:27:19docgonzowe just finished bottling 5 gallons of raspberry lambic this weekend and cleaned up the kitchen ::grin:: i love a woman that helps me homebrew.
09:27:23peturbut at least we got all the nice beers :p
09:27:45scorchedocgonzo: where in CA? =P
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09:27:52docgonzoWe're in Santa Barbara
09:27:56pixelmapetur: that would have been a Tisch ;)
09:28:10ddaltonLinusN: around?
09:28:15peturpixelma: I know, but close enough ;)
09:28:26LinusNddalton: sort of
09:28:33scorchedocgonzo: ack...
09:28:41ddaltonLinusN: how did you go with that alarm patch?
09:28:48GodEaterack ?
09:28:55LinusNhaven't worked on it since last time
09:28:57docgonzoNext week we're thinking of starting a Boddington's clone or some other type of English Bitter -esq. something lighter and crisper than the last two batches we've done.
09:29:13scorcheack as in too far for me to drive for beer
09:29:19ddaltonok any ideas on what I could do to get it working properly?
09:29:45docgonzowhen i first moved out here a few months ago, i started a traditional meade. it's at about 10%abv and we got 9 750ml bottles left to age out for a bit, then the 5gallons of raspberry lambic that we bottled this weekend.
09:30:05LinusNddalton: not really
09:30:08docgonzoback home in FL i had a 5gallon corney keg of a newcastle clone i brewed. i had to dump most of it before i left.
09:30:20*JdGordon wonders if docgonzo knows this is a on-topic channel
09:30:31scorchebeer is always on-topic...
09:30:36peturyup ;)
09:30:41docgonzoi'll go to rockbox-community next time ;-)
09:30:45Mode"#rockbox +v JdGordon " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
09:31:01GodEaterone corner left kids
09:31:13docgonzoi figured beer and late late nights molesting partially-beta firmware on expensive DAP go hand-in-hand
09:31:17scorchedocgonzo: well, if you ever are in a mood to share, i am about 2 hours 17 min away =)
09:31:35GodEaterscorche: get a faster car
09:31:37docgonzo:-) scorche, you're welcome to come to SBCA and we'll down a few pints.
09:31:44docgonzowhere in CA are you?
09:31:49B4gder9:31am here, at work, perfect time for beer! ;-P
09:31:49scorchecosta mesa
09:31:59docgonzoN or S of SB ?
09:32:13docgonzoi'm kinda familiar with SB to LA (not to much outside of that area).
09:32:16*GodEater is currently down a caffeinated beer known colloquially as "coffee"
09:32:46docgonzocoffee? i used that to clean my pistol brass. cleans real nice and leaves a glossy shine to 'em.
09:33:12GodEaterdocgonzo: I suspect not this particular brew
09:33:15GodEaterit's more like tar :)
09:33:49docgonzoscorche - oh , cool. i have a friend who works for ticketmaster in their coding/design office off wilshire and lives in/around hawthorne.
09:34:01docgonzohe's a linux-nerd, too we are straying off-topic
09:34:31LinusNi don't really want to spoil the fun, but i really think we should stay on topic
09:34:40docgonzoGodEater: nothing like the smell of coffee and HoppeNo9 in the morning.
09:34:44docgonzook... rockbox
09:34:53docgonzorockbox rockbox.... rockbox?
09:34:57scorchedocgonzo: feel free to join #rockbox-community and continue
09:35:58docgonzook. i'm feeling free to join #mywomaninbed. I thank you all for your help and conversation. Catch y'all on the flipside, guys.
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09:39:17Mode"#rockbox -vvv JdGordon GodEater B4gder " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
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09:44:52kasbais it possible to use my rockbox running on ipod 5G with ext3 FS instead of FAT32 ?
09:45:20kasba:(( grrrrr
09:51:41 Join pondlife [0] (
09:52:30pondlifeQuick question - does the website still have a page for the last 4 weeks commits?
09:52:40B4gderyes, although not linked-to atm
09:52:49pondlifeHmm, that was my most-used page
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09:58:36pondlife1Hmm, lost broadband for a while...
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10:00:39 Join aliask [0] (
10:00:59pondlifeHas there been much discussion about the home page? If so, which date? Don't want to rehash stuff...
10:01:27scorchepondlife: it has mostly been met with a "talk to zagor"
10:02:02*pondlife will talk to Zagor then
10:02:18pondlifeZagor: Any chance of reverting to the old home page ;)
10:02:45JdGordonanyone know which mailing list zagor watches? prob not a good idea if everyone talks to him speratly..
10:03:07*GodEater prefers the new page
10:03:15scorcheJdGordon and i were thinking possibly the committers list, but we dont knwo if he watches it...
10:03:25scorcheGodEater: oh, i do just needs a few adjustments
10:03:32pondlifeI like it all being on there, but would prefer the old subversion table (with comments)
10:03:41scorchemostly in the SVN table
10:03:46pondlifeAnd prefer the tables to be below each other, not side-by-side.
10:04:01GodEatermakes the page too long
10:04:08morrijrcould they not be 'floated'?
10:04:17GodEaterI prefer it like this, and a link to each for more detail
10:04:20JdGordonand the recent.html page should have bookmarks things so the links on the frontpage dont all link to the top of hte page
10:04:22pondlifeHmm, don't know what resolution you use, but I have to scroll both ways now
10:04:54scorchemake the SVN table as it was before, and i am largely fine
10:04:57morrijrpondlife: if they were floated then they'd stack if you've not got room
10:05:31pondlifeTry it at 800x600...
10:05:34morrijrexcept for the fact that it's a very heavy table layout :(
10:05:42scorchepondlife: eek...really?
10:05:46GodEaterpondlife: I wouldn't dream of it
10:05:50GodEaterthat's a daft res to run
10:05:52morrijrwith nested tables :(
10:06:01pondlifeOh, yes. I'm seriously not good in the eyesight dept.
10:06:04GodEatermorrijr: no-one uses nested tables any more :)
10:06:08aliaskAnd at 1280 there's a big gap on the side
10:06:14GodEaterpondlife: get a bigger monitor!
10:06:17morrijrGodEater: take a look at the code...
10:06:25GodEatermorrijr: hence the ":)"
10:06:52GodEatermorrijr: it *should* be done with <div> tags
10:06:54pondlifeI'll try 1280x1024 - my monitors are capable of it.
10:07:11morrijrGodEater: agreed. I thought it was when I first saw it
10:07:27GodEaterZagor is a self confessed non-webpage designer though
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10:07:59JdGordonim just waiting for the usual "submit a patch" reply
10:08:06pixelmafunny that a lot people now discuss the other way round... when talking to Zagor Friday night, a lot agreed that the new page doesn't look good on larger resolutions...
10:08:09k-man_i want to get rockbox to read the ipod files/database
10:08:12k-man_how do i enable that?
10:08:30aliaskSomeone needs to make an AJAX web 2.0 streaming live update frontpage :)
10:08:32GodEaterk-man_: it won't read the ipod database
10:08:40pondlifeHmm, at 1280x1024 it looks better laid out. Pity the font sizes are fixed (or don't follow whatever IE does when you specify "Largest" font).
10:08:43GodEaterk-man_: but you can get it to read the ipod files - just look in the manual
10:08:47scorchepixelma: it has a bit of empty space in 1600x1200
10:08:48JdGordonpixelma: at 1680x1050 it looks pretty bad
10:09:02scorchebut as long as teh SVN table is back tot he way it was, i am happy
10:09:15pixelmain my eyes it already looks bad at 1280x1024...
10:09:25k-man_GodEater: oh, ok
10:09:48pixelmaand I've been told "just don't browse full-screen"...
10:10:00pondlifeIf the tables were below each other, and just used the entire width, that would be KISS too. Sponsors could go back on the right too... (almost back the old layout though!)
10:10:37k-man_GodEater: ok, ill check that
10:10:41JdGordonalso, shouldnt the recent posts from the forum go on the frontpage also?
10:10:49GodEatertoo much information all on the front page is not KISS
10:11:00pixelmapondlife: read Friday evening's (early Saturday's) log
10:11:06pondlifeWill do
10:11:30k-man_GodEater: what section should i look in for info on that?
10:11:50GodEaterk-man_: Database
10:12:35JdGordonspeaking of advetising... B4gder did anyhing happen with your planned ads?
10:12:36 Join gromit` [0] (
10:12:51k-man_so i loaded a whole bunch of songs onto the ipod using itunes, should i just run the update now so that rockbox finds them?
10:12:52pondlifeGodEater: I wouldn't object to removing the tables from the front page completely - just have the top 5 MajorChanges/news items maybe? Sooper-simple.
10:13:05GodEaterpondlife: that would be nicer I think
10:13:31GodEaterfor everyone that wants to see all those tables, having the page they're on as a favourite wouldn't be too onerous I don't think
10:13:41GodEaterbut I don't think it's great to have them all on the front page
10:13:42pondlifeThen have a recent changes page like the current home page, but with the data laid out like before (i.e. SVN comments)
10:13:49GodEaterbut last time I ventured that opinion Llorean shouted at me :)
10:14:06pondlifeCurrently it's neither simpler nor more useful (to me)
10:14:14pondlifeBut I'll read the logs and re-understand.
10:14:47pixelmafor people who prefer the last version of the "old look" ;:P
10:14:48pondlifeI don't (yet) use a screen reader, but wonder how well JAWS would cope with the current layout.
10:14:54LloreanGodEater: Which opinion?
10:15:05GodEaterLlorean: that we should have a more user friendly front page :)
10:15:09pondlifepixelma: Thanks!
10:15:13GodEaterless developer focused
10:15:14LloreanI'm all for more user friendly
10:15:34GodEaterI wish I'd kept the logs - but you most definitely didn't have that opinion last time the subject came up
10:15:39pondlifeTwo front pages, one for users ( and one for devs?
10:15:42LloreanI ust don't think that less developer focused is a necessary corollary to it.
10:16:07JdGordonpondlife: the dev frontpage just needs the svn changlog on the build table page
10:17:02*GodEater thinks the now empty top right corner should feature a nice screenshot of Rockbox in action
10:17:13pondlifeI don't think the mailing list needs to be on any front page really; it's already very accessible via mail/news/RSS.
10:17:29pondlifePlus the web (or course)
10:17:51LloreanI think the SVN commits are 100% useless without comments, as developers will want to know why those files changed, and users will either make random guesses, or just not care.
10:18:06GodEaterI think the latter for users
10:18:20GodEaterI'd like to see the forums have an RSS feed to
10:18:20LloreanGodEater: Depends on the user
10:18:28GodEater95% of users then
10:18:37JdGordoneven users would find the commit message more useful than just the file changed
10:18:38LloreanWe've got enough people who speak up any time ipodpatcher.c changes, or whatever.
10:19:07GodEaterare we still estimating about 30,000 users ?
10:19:20LloreanNo clue
10:19:24pondlifeUsers would find the comments useful, but not the filenames, I'd think.
10:19:27*GodEater seems to recall this figure mentioned recently
10:19:36gammyI think I count as two or three .
10:19:43GodEaterpondlife: you think "Oops" is useful ? :)
10:19:44gammyConsidering how much I like it ^_^
10:19:58pondlifeGodEater: Yes! It means don't download!
10:20:16GodEaterpondlife: no it doesn't - it means don't download the commit from before the oops surely ?
10:20:17scorcheGodEater: that was a random number i pulled out of...well...somewhere, but it is my guess (likely way off)
10:20:29pondlifeThat's what I mean
10:20:37GodEaterI think it's a reasonable guess
10:20:57JdGordonGodEater: we dont really have all that many oops commits....
10:21:14GodEaterLlorean: neat - it was already there and I didn't know ?
10:21:26LloreanYeah, I didn't know until 2 minutes ago
10:21:49LloreanYou can customize the URL a bit to add various constraints or whatnot
10:22:13JdGordon$ svn log | grep oops | wc -l
10:22:29*GodEater adds it to google reader
10:22:38GodEaterJdGordon: "grep -i" please
10:23:06GodEaterthat's better :)
10:23:08JdGordon-i is case insensitive i guess?
10:23:23GodEaterand now your typos please "Ops" and "Ooops" ?
10:23:31LloreanI think the front page could settle for four things: A paragraph describing what Rockbox is/does (shortened Why Rockbox) including a link to the players it runs on, MajorChanges, News, and Sponsors.
10:23:39peturand add to that 'fix red', 'fix yellow', ...
10:23:54LloreanAt the very bottom of the front page could also be the actual SVN commits, out of sight of any "user" who doesn't scroll down
10:24:01GodEaterpetur: lets have that as a proper regexp then
10:24:07 Join obo [0] (n=obo@rockbox/developer/obo)
10:24:16GodEaterI still think we should include a screenshot too
10:24:33GodEaterpossibly a randomly selected one from "themes" that changes whenever someone visits :)
10:24:43pondlifeI agree. But maybe after we've updated the default theme :)
10:24:49peturlet's make an animated gif from some themes....
10:24:52LloreanGodEater: Above the sponsors, top right corner?
10:25:02pondlifepetur: No animation, please.
10:25:19GodEaterpondlife: no no - not after we've updated the default theme. That means "Never" :)
10:25:23*JdGordon fails @ regexp
10:25:26pondlifeHence my :)
10:25:48pondlifeSeriously, some dictator should just update the default theme.
10:26:02JdGordonGodEater: thats what I was tihnking, a random screeny would be cool
10:26:05GodEateryeah - it's clear democracy is not needed there
10:26:13GodEaterit just fails completely
10:26:14pondlifeI have no strong opinion other than the current one is unimpressive.
10:26:25GodEaterunimpressive is a kind thing to say about it :)
10:26:37*JdGordon likes the cabbie theme
10:26:51GodEater"massively underwhelming" would be my choice
10:26:58JdGordonif we want the default to look about the same on most targets
10:27:05*GodEater wonders if *anyone* keeps the default except blind people
10:27:57aliaskI think the default theme should at LEAST have the peakmeters removed on swcodecs
10:28:04*pondlife updates his sim with jhMikeS and amiconn's good work
10:28:08*petur wonders why icatcher never made it to default - it exists for most targets
10:28:16JdGordonaliask: why? they arnt a problem on all targets
10:28:17Lloreanaliask: Why, they work on 6 of the swcodec targets, at least
10:28:18GodEateryeah, iCatcher is a good enough default
10:28:25*pondlife agrees
10:28:32GodEaterLlorean: but they suck :)
10:28:39aliaskBecause I get CPU issues on my ipod mini on high bitrate files
10:28:51JdGordonbtw, are we talking about a new hard coded default? or just a default for the config file?
10:28:57Lloreanaliask: And the iPod (or portalplayer in general) suffers from "performance problems"
10:28:58pondlifePeople who want peak meters can easily select a new theme.
10:29:18GodEaterthey don't seem a popular choice for inclusion by most theme authors
10:29:19peturJdGordon: default for config file
10:29:32JdGordonok then, goodd :)
10:29:36LloreanGodEater: I honestly think that's because they're not themable, and the majority of themes are made for iPods.
10:29:50peturGodEater: because they are ugly?
10:29:54LloreanGodEater: I've seen several requests for them to be vertical, or other things like that.
10:30:01 Join skate3214 [0] (
10:30:06JdGordonthe default should maybe look as close to the OF as possible.. so we can convert people and they wont realise :p
10:30:13GodEaterall those are good reasons to remove them from the default IMHO
10:30:18aliaskJdGordon: I disagree
10:30:28GodEaterI disagree with that too
10:30:43aliaskOr are you trying to go for the "install it on peoples mp3 players while they aren't looking" approach?
10:30:50LloreanI think that whatever theme is chosen as the default, peakmeters shouldn't really factor in beyond "how do they look as part of it"
10:30:54pondlifeThe RB virus?
10:30:58amiconnGodEater: I keep the default on most of my targets because (1) I'm too lazy to make my own wps and (2) imo none of the shipped or posted wps'es are better than the default
10:31:09pondlifeHmm, iCatcher seems set up for Album Art, no?
10:31:15amiconnI just select a somewhat larger (and proportional) font
10:31:17GodEaterI think I owe pondlife a fiver
10:31:34GodEaternot that I was really betting against him
10:31:59pondlifeI'll arm wrestle you for that fiver
10:32:15GodEatergloves off this time, I'm not giving you a head start
10:32:16amiconnAnd I like wps'es that include peakmeters
10:32:42pondlifeOK, just dislocated this time.
10:32:44pondlifeNot so bad.
10:32:49GodEaternice, I'll put that back in for you
10:32:53*pondlife clicks it back in.
10:33:17amiconnAt least the default has all info I want, and doesn't take ages to load
10:33:21 Quit Hadaka (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
10:33:38GodEaterdefine ages ?
10:33:48pondlifeamiconn: You'd be free to have that still. But it's the reaction of new users that concerns me.
10:34:17pondlifeI've failed to convert 2 friends now, it's quite unfortunate (for them, mainly)
10:34:38pondlifeOne primarily on the UI, one on the iPod battery life, really.
10:34:45amiconnOn 2nd gen I use iCatcher because peakmeters aren't so good on PP5002. But iCatcher is annoying in several respects: (1) excessive load time (2) the graphical format indicators mess up (3) no disk indicator
10:34:46*GodEater wonders if that's more to do with pondlife spouting on about all the bugs in playback.c
10:34:58pondlifeHah, no. I keep quiet about them
10:35:10 Quit skate3214 ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
10:35:10GodEaternearly un-converted me when you did
10:35:19JdGordonhang on... if we ship with default themes... do we want all targets to look the same-ish?
10:35:23pondlifeYou're a dev, you should be able to take it.
10:35:30pondlifeJdGordon: Yes
10:35:33GodEaterwell given I hadn't even noticed them - yes :)
10:35:35pondlifeBut with sensible font sizes
10:35:39LloreanJdGordon: there's two kinds of "same". Same image, but scaled, or same style.
10:35:42JdGordonthat limits our options a fair bit then
10:35:43LloreanI'd lean toward same style
10:36:14pondlifeThe Player will probably be excluded from any change...
10:36:21JdGordonamiconn: for a default I dont think load time is a big deal.. more users are put off by the look than the load time
10:36:22GodEaterthe competition we had in the forums pretty much failed
10:36:30LloreanSame general presentation of information, but for example, on particularly short screens maybe no "Next Song" information, on very tall ones (Portrait) some additional lines that would be "fluff"
10:36:32JdGordonespecially coming from OF's where it takes a full minute to be usable
10:36:41 Quit t0mas ("*runs off to work*")
10:36:46LloreanGodEater: It provided the beginnings of one. =/
10:36:52GodEaterLlorean: yes - one
10:37:02LloreanI think load time should still be an important point.
10:37:10GodEaterand I don't think it was nearly as good as iCatcher or Rockboxed
10:37:24GodEatermy only issue with Rockboxed was it was too orange
10:37:27GodEaterotherwise it was a good theme
10:37:51GodEaterif he'd inverted the palette it would have been better
10:37:52LloreanHonestly, probably the best thing we can do is take the current default, strip the peakmeters, and frame it in a nice looking backdrop.
10:37:55pondlifeHow come iCatcher and Rockboxed aren't on
10:38:08Lloreanpondlife: iCatcher is always included...
10:38:29GodEaterisn't Rockboxed too these days ?
10:38:35LloreanBut honestly, one really good looking backdrop can make a huge difference going from "But it's just text on a screen" to "Hey, that looks rather nice"
10:38:36JdGordonLlorean: and larger fonts and nice icons
10:38:41LloreanJdGordon: Yes.
10:38:53LloreanColored icons for color targets, larger fonts for most screens, and a backdrop for the main WPS
10:39:03LloreanI can't imagine a backdrop making too huge a difference in load time, since it's a single file.
10:39:19GodEaterso anyway - this discussion just proves my point, and we should stick to randomly selected theme images on the front page :)
10:39:33LloreanOh, and on color or grayscale targets, a progress bar image.
10:39:43pondlifeOr, it proves my point that we need a dictator!
10:39:51GodEaterthough it should probably be from an "elite" subset of all themes
10:39:57*Llorean votes himself dictator.
10:39:57JdGordonVIVA LA DICTATOR!
10:39:58GodEatersince some of them suck
10:40:13LloreanGodEater: Yeah, whatever's rotated on the front page should be hand selected, not random
10:40:26pondlifeThe Soap-seal of approval should be mandated at least.
10:40:51GodEateryeah - they should install from RBUtil cleanly
10:41:21*pondlife would like to see the non-compliant themes removed from the wiki anyway, plus the sucky mono-on-colour-target ones
10:41:44Lloreanpondlife: Um, why should mono-on-color-target be removed, just because you don't think they're pretty?
10:41:51GodEaterthere's no accounting for taste pondlife
10:42:06*JdGordon votes the orange/yellow version of
10:42:07pondlifeTrue, but they are the sort of thing that gives Rockbox a bad name, IMHO
10:42:10scorchepondlife: all themes will eventually be abolished
10:42:14LloreanRockboxed, a rather popular theme herabouts, is essentially mono-on-color.
10:42:31pondlifeYes, but at least it has a colour setting.
10:42:42pondlifeMad Big Sausage, anyone?
10:43:02LloreanHow does an optional theme give Rockbox a bad name, unless someone goes around saying "This is what Rockbox looks like"?
10:43:10GodEateryeah - lets leave them be
10:43:16pondlifeIt does if it's on the front page
10:43:16GodEaterbut just not "advertise" them on the front page
10:43:22pondlifeThat's what I mean
10:43:30LloreanAnyway, anyone up to volunteering to create some nice looking backdrops for the default theme sans peakmeters, at differing font sizes by screen size? :-P
10:43:36GodEaterpondlife: well we already said we'd hand pick whatever gets displayed there
10:43:54scorchewhy are we thinking if displaying themes there?
10:44:09Lloreanscorche: There's a big empty space in the top right corner, and people always ask "What does it look like?"
10:44:11JdGordon is the one im tihnkign of
10:44:14amiconnJdGordon: I'm way more impressed by zippy operation than by looks. I have nothing against good looks, but performance and usability always come first
10:44:29*aliask votes for Rocker (e200 theme)
10:44:38scorcheLlorean: then we forward them to dont know about showing a theme on the front page...
10:44:40Lloreanamiconn: How do you feel about default+backdrop then? Think it's slow things down too much?
10:44:43JdGordonamiconn: I agree, but users wont care if it takes an extra second to boot if it looks better by default hen the current
10:44:50Lloreanscorche: Why not, as long as it's an official-build theme?
10:44:55aliaskBut it has no license, and only one target
10:45:07scorcheLlorean: i just am not sure if that belongs on the front page
10:45:07*JdGordon slaps aliask, thats a horrible theme :p
10:45:28GodEaterprobably stating the obvious - but NO album art ones either!
10:45:30aliaskAre we thinking of the same one?
10:45:35Lloreanscorche: I think "What does it run on?" "What does it do?" are both important things for the front page, and "What does it do?" includes "What does it look like?"
10:45:44JdGordonaliask: just different tastes...
10:46:17GodEaterI can't even see Rocker on rockbox-themes
10:46:27GodEaterLlorean: absolutely
10:46:48scorcheLlorean: yes, but i dont know if just a random picture of a theme will work for that...
10:46:59LloreanGodEater: But I think "What does it run on" can be linked to from the shortened "What does it do" paragraph
10:47:06GodEaterscorche: we get to pick which "random" ones will show though
10:47:18Lloreanscorche: We were talking about a rotating picture of say our favorite half dozen to dozen themes that work with an official build
10:47:20*pondlife guiltily likes the phkTAPE theme... clever, if not that practical.
10:47:31scorcheLlorean: and what device?
10:47:33*Llorean rather likes the one that looks like it was written in pencil
10:47:42GodEaterscorche: I think we should pick a selection
10:47:49GodEaternot just confine to one device
10:47:51Lloreanscorche: My preference is for iPod Video, since 320x240 offers good visibility
10:48:06LloreanGodEater: We probably should, otherwise the box will be varying sizes
10:48:13LloreanUnless we pad smaller images, and skip the Gigabeat
10:48:22GodEaterLlorean: I think padding won't be too tricky
10:48:30GodEaterand why skip the gigabeat ?
10:48:35scorcheLlorean: but then we leave out other great themes and are saying "if you want your theme to possibly have a chance of being on the front page, make it for the ipod video"
10:48:59LloreanGodEater: Unless you use a 320x320 box
10:49:19JdGordoneither the video or the gigabeat.. depends which one fits better in the space
10:49:29LloreanMore than half the height of poor Pondlife's screen...
10:49:29GodEaterLlorean: since we're only offering a sample - I don't think we need to avoid scaling the images either - although I may change my mind
10:49:49GodEaterpondlife needs to buy a bigger monitor
10:49:51Lloreanscorche: Honestly, they're going to make their themes for their player first anyway.
10:50:02Lloreanscorche: And the Video has the widest selection
10:50:03pondlifeGodEater: My monitors are pretty big already, sadly
10:50:19GodEaterpondlife: 28" already ? :)
10:50:26pondlifeHah, no
10:50:38pondlifeBut my desk isn't big enough for those, nor my room!
10:50:50scorchea "Here is what Rockbox can look like:" link would satisfy that fine, but i am still wary of this way
10:51:07Lloreanscorche: Anything we want to be sure users sees needs to not be hidden behind a link, and hopefully be flashy
10:51:23GodEaterscorche: what's your problem with it ?
10:51:28LloreanA rotating image would do it. We could include all bitmap players except the Gigabeat, I suppose.
10:51:36aliaskOn the topic of themes and soforth, does a standard install come with any icon themes?
10:51:37pondlifeNothing animated, please.
10:51:52pondlifeJust a random one, each refresh?
10:51:55GodEaterpondlife: rotating as in "it appears different when you hit refresh"
10:51:59pondlifeAh, ok
10:51:59Lloreanpondlife: That's what I had in mind.
10:52:09GodEateranimated would be horrible
10:52:49GodEateris it worth putting out a call for people to submit designs of the front page at Rockbox in the forums ? With the caveat that we reserve the right to reject all of them if we don't like them ?
10:53:07pondlifeNo, this needs a dictator.
10:53:30GodEaterpondlife: the decision could still be taken by a dictator
10:53:37GodEaterbut we might end up with something we really like
10:53:40scorcheGodEater: people perhaps not realizing it is a random image, favoritizing one player, the general idea
10:53:41GodEaterand we won't know unless we ask
10:53:42pondlifeIt would end up like the theme competition... unfinished.
10:53:54GodEaterpondlife: maybe - but there's no harm in trying right ?
10:54:03pondlifeOK, go for it
10:54:05GodEaterand we can still change what we have currently in the meantime
10:54:09***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
10:54:14LloreanGodEater: I'd wait on that
10:54:15GodEaterwe need to set rules for how it's done too
10:54:23LloreanRight now there's no guarantee the front page will be changed.
10:54:26GodEatersomewhat like the slashdot redesign
10:54:34GodEaterLlorean: still doesn't hurt I don't think
10:54:49GodEaterif we put it "we don't guarantee to select anything" it doesn't matter
10:54:56LloreanIt might become like the logo thing, though
10:55:06GodEaterI don't think it will
10:55:07pondlifeI'd rather see effort put into (a) setting up a set of rules for suitable themes (Soap-SOA would probably do) and (b) collecting all suitable themes together (on, preferably).
10:55:15LloreanPeople keep bringing it up, and kinda frustrating a few key people who don't think it should change, and have the dictatorship to say so
10:55:20GodEaterputting a well designed web page together is a much more serious undertaking
10:55:29scorchepondlife: "suitable"?
10:55:38scorchepondlife: what is this for?
10:55:40GodEaterthe logo design thing is a bit too easy to do
10:55:40Lloreanpondlife: This was decided long ago, and is almost finished being prepared to become an official site with official themes.
10:55:56pondlifeIndeed, but there are some missing themes.
10:56:16GodEaterI'd say we'd like the page done in proper CSS layout style, and must include features X, Y and Z
10:56:18pondlifeSuitable... say, works on all targets with no patches required.
10:56:30scorchepondlife: it will be born anew with tabula rasa
10:56:55GodEaterworking on all targets is a tall order for a lot of themes
10:56:56Lloreanpondlife: Authors will have to resubmit, as we're requiring a stated license now.
10:57:15LloreanBut there's no all-target requirement, just patch-free for the main section
10:57:16pondlifeLicense too..
10:57:17 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
10:57:17scorchepondlife: see is finished (unless you have something for it) is just waiting for a right time and an overview for security
10:58:50scorcheit seems you are mentioning many things we went over at DCW, and luckyily at a time when it is ready to be implemented
11:00:15GodEateris the current page generated with perl ?
11:00:51scorchewhich current page?
11:02:11Lloreanscorche: "Do you have you a theme that is not listed on this site?" sounds like people should submit any theme they have, even other peoples'... was that what was intended?
11:02:43LloreanDidn't think so, but I haven't been paying much attention
11:03:51scorcheGodEater: then i shall stay silent =)
11:04:55 Join JdGordon [0] (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
11:05:05GodEaterscorche: I know your site is PHP ;)
11:05:12amiconnJdGordon: If it would be just one extra second, I wouldn't care. But icatcher needs around 5 seconds on my 2nd gen
11:05:54GodEater <−− anything else I should / could add before I try posting this in the forums ?
11:06:19JdGordonamiconn: even 5s is no big deal for the first boot imho
11:06:57LloreanJdGordon: 5s is a lot for boots.
11:07:12scorcheGodEater: await lots of "Web 2.0" suggestions
11:07:46 Join JdGordon_ [0] (
11:08:09LloreanGodEater: Before you post that, do you know *why* we're not using CSS for layout, or why the menu on the left is not collapsible?
11:08:12scorcheand from what it is sounding like, it wont be a "best of rockbox themes" would be a "best of ipod video rockbox themes"
11:08:14GodEaterscorche: I don't think having it as Web 2.0 is a bad thing provide the design *includes* the work necessary
11:08:33Lloreanscorche: No, it's solely my suggestion that they be ipv themes.
11:08:36GodEaterLlorean: I assume because it's tough to generate it from the perl that runs currently
11:08:57JdGordonnothing is tough for perl
11:09:12LloreanGodEater: Might want to check for the reasoning first. No sense asking for submissions that will be objected for any technical reason already extant.
11:09:41Lloreanscorche: I don't know why you're so touchy about having any themes displayed on the front page. You seem to be upset that we want them there at all.
11:10:16scorcheLlorean: that is putting it a little strong...i just dont like the idea much
11:10:20GodEaterLlorean: given that I want to ask for submissions to include the underlying code too I'm not so worried about it
11:10:33GodEatersomeone just submitting a photoshop'd front page isn't taking it seriously enough ;)
11:10:49scorcheGodEater: people might be a little angry if they put a lot of work into it and get shot down entirely (even with warnings) =)
11:11:09GodEaterscorche: since when do we care about angry forum users ? ;)
11:11:27scorcheGodEater: jerk!
11:11:28amiconnJdGordon: It's not the first boot, but every boot. And 5 seconds is around the same as the rest of the boot time, so it's quite annoying
11:11:38*GodEater polishes his "Jerk" badge
11:11:47LloreanGodEater: I'd say wait until the swedes are around, and find out why certain things are the way they are before posting.
11:12:09amiconnIt will be less annoying when I have suspend working though
11:12:54*amiconn is always annoyed by boot times. Ideally a dap should boot in <1 second
11:13:01linuxstbamiconn: Regarding wps loading time, if you get chance, could you test the bmp-in-tar patch that's on flyspray? It works, but when both Nico_P and I tested it, it didn't give any noticable speedup, so we didn't try and finish it and commit it. But WPSs load fast (a lot faster than you're reporting) for me anyway (disk fragmentation?). It's FS 6571
11:13:11LloreanGodEater: One very, very important thing should be to stress that they should strive to make it accessible.
11:13:34scorchei dont know how accessible collapsible menus are
11:13:40amiconnlinuxstb: It might be fragmentation plus the older generation 1.8" ´hdds being slow at seeking
11:13:51GodEaterLlorean: you mean for unsighted people for example
11:13:51amiconn(my 2nd gen has an MK2003GAH)
11:13:58LloreanGodEater: Exactly.
11:14:01GodEaterscorche: they're only unaccessible if you collapse them
11:14:12JdGordonamiconn: it would only affect the boot time untill its changed.. the idea is to set the default in the config, so you could still go back to the current default
11:14:16GodEaterso the default (should you choose to use them) should not be to have anything hidden
11:14:21LloreanAnd collapsible menus that don't start collapsed are little good. :-P
11:14:30GodEaterI disagree
11:14:35LloreanI don't think there's enough content on that sidebar to make them so, though.
11:14:37GodEaterthe /. redesign used them
11:14:53GodEaterand they start out fully displayed, I simple collapse the ones I don't use very often
11:14:56amiconnJdGordon: I was thinking about a default that's actually usable
11:14:59GodEaterbut as you say, it may not even be necessary
11:15:07GodEaterwe'll leave that to the designer
11:15:19*GodEater is still modifying his draft post with these suggestions btw.
11:16:22*aliask never got a response from his espeak mail
11:16:57 Quit pondlife (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
11:17:03*JdGordon wonders why amiconn thought we would choose an unsuable default theme?
11:17:46LloreanJdGordon: 5 seconds every boot is unusable to some of us.
11:17:56amiconnFirst I didn't. Your remark regarding "only the first boot" lead me to
11:18:06LloreanThe default should strive to be as nice looking as possible with as low a boot time hit as possible
11:18:14*scorche goes to bed
11:18:46markunaliask: I also emailed him about it
11:18:55markunand didn't get a reply
11:19:04*GodEater wonders if he should specify that we would allow (for example) PHP submissions if the designer felt he could make it work better that way
11:19:51aliaskI'm tempted to post on the forums, but I'd prefer a private dialogue...
11:20:19 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
11:20:36aliaskGodEater: Don't tempt me with PHP :P
11:21:32LinusNGodEater: what exactly are the problems with the current design?
11:22:45JdGordon_the commit message isnt shown!
11:23:11LinusNthat sucks imho
11:23:17scorcheLinusN: my main issue is the svn table
11:24:04markunaliask: maybe you can post on the forum and make it a general GPLv2 vs GPLv3 question
11:24:05GodEaterLinusN: I don't know that there are problems per se, I just thought it might be nice to see some alternative designs submitted. Someone might come up with something so gobsmackingly good, we really really like it
11:24:35GodEaterThe forums do have a certain population of people who claim to be web developers who've offered their services previously - this gives them something to do
11:24:44GodEaterwithout us committing to using anything
11:24:48 Join pondlife [0] (
11:24:51aliaskmarkun: I might do just that then.
11:25:08GodEaterLinusN: do you think that's a bad idea ?
11:25:32LinusNthe problem is that "web design" to many equals "cool graphic design", and not necessarily "effectively conveying planty of information"
11:26:01LloreanI think that with the addition of a "recent activity" page, the front page ought to be streamlined but that's it.
11:26:12GodEaterLinusN: this is why I'm trying to layout a set of rules for what MUST be included
11:26:15LloreanAnd as a few have said, the target list can be put on a separate page, preferably with pictures and such
11:26:55LinusNwhat we primarily need is a way to structure the information on the front page in a good way
11:27:03 Join bowl [0] (i=c27f0814@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
11:27:05*Llorean would really like to get rid of every table but "News" and "Major changes" and maybe an SVN log somewhere if it can be made less space-overwhelming.
11:27:08GodEaterLinusN: in the end, if someone submits something which is all sizzle, and not useful - then we just reject it
11:27:39JdGordon_linuxstb: ping?
11:27:43pondlifeIt would save them wasting their time if we can set some groundrules though
11:28:02GodEaterin my opinion a good web designer *knows* that a web page is about information display, and not just about the "ZOMG" factor
11:28:16linuxstbLlorean: I didn't have a problem with the SVN table on the front page - as long as it's at the bottom of the front page. It's the content above the SVN table that's most important.
11:28:29GodEater <−− updated again
11:29:07Lloreanlinuxstb: Yeah, that's about how I feel
11:29:39bowlAny RB web site admins here? Would it be possible to add anchors on the recent.html page? So that it's possible to jump right to the desired place via bookmarks? And one more thing: I think, the Subversion block on the front page should contain not the files changed but rather the comment. Has this already been discussed? If yes, I appologize for bringing this up.
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11:30:11linuxstbJdGordon_: bah?
11:30:28LinusNGodEater: imho, the most important point is the last one, (F)
11:30:43GodEaterLinusN: I'll move that up to the top then
11:31:05pixelmaGodEater: I absolutely agree about the webdesigner statement... but if you look at most current webpages then there are really only a _very_ few around :\
11:31:09JdGordon_linuxstb: i got libusb-win32 installed (the sansa driver), but your e200rpatcher keeps saying the sansa is busy
11:31:11LinusNbowl: we are discussing it now
11:31:25linuxstbShouldn't we agree _what_ should be on the page before asking people to design a layout around it?
11:31:36LinusNlinuxstb: of course
11:31:36pondlifeCan the sidebar be changed, yet maintained consistently across forums/rockbox-themes etc.?
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11:32:27ddaltonany ideas on how to fix a broken ipod?
11:32:27pondlifeIf not, it should probably be excluded from the design.
11:32:38pondlifeDepends on what's broken.
11:32:58ddaltonwell it won't boot at all the screen light doesn't come on
11:33:07pondlifeBattery flat?
11:33:14ddaltonand I can't get it in to disk mode. The hdd doesn't sound good as well
11:33:19pondlifeCharge it from mains?
11:33:30ddaltonnup tried that
11:33:30bowlLinusN: I'm sorry for not following the discussion
11:33:32 Part bowl
11:33:32linuxstbJdGordon_: That seems promising at least - it's detected it and opened a device handle.... But I'm afraid I don't have time to experiment now.
11:33:32GodEaterlinuxstb: if you have suggestions for my list that I've not included then please let me know
11:33:34LloreanGodEater: I'm thinking something more like this, though a little less ugly, and a little more "sponsors on the right"">
11:33:57LloreanA simplified version of what we had before.
11:34:01JdGordon_linuxstb: no worries, I actually pinged you to get the url of the exe.. but found it already
11:34:02pondlifeMerge the news and major changes into one table?
11:34:20Lloreanpondlife: Seems logical
11:34:31pondlifeBut watch out for duplicates!
11:34:45GodEaterLlorean: you can submit that to the competition when I post it then ;)
11:34:59amiconnJdGordon_: Iiuc you need both the filter driver installed, and the device driver associated with the sansa while it's in manufacturing mode, in ordre3 to make libusb access it
11:35:04pondlifeSponsors back on the right, and add the SVN comments...
11:35:13linuxstbWhat about the recent mail and recent wiki - I'm not sure we need those on the front page as well.
11:35:19Lloreanpondlife: Yes. Sorry, that was the work of about 30 seconds cutting things out.
11:35:19JdGordon_amiconn: we were under the impression you didnt need the filter driver
11:35:45pondlifeLlorean: I think I'm saying we'd be back to the original layout, and I prefer that to all other options so far :)
11:36:07Lloreanpondlife: I'd like to get rid of the player list, and replace it with a more user-friendly paragraph
11:36:09JdGordon_Llorean: that looks a bit better... but the blerb has to be limited to say 800px wide, it looks _terrible_ at high res widescreen
11:36:30GodEaterpondlife fears change it seems
11:36:41pondlifeNot really. I have my reasons here.
11:36:42LloreanJdGordon_: As i said, that was a really quick hack job, it's more the sample text (lack of player list) and which things were kept on the page than the layout.
11:36:45linuxstbamiconn: The documentation claims the filter driver isn't needed any more - just a device driver -
11:36:53*JdGordon_ giong for dinner
11:37:06pondlifeLlorean: I think the target list is useful for people Googling.
11:37:21Lloreanpondlife: So we make sure the other page is indexed by google.
11:37:34pondlifeother page?
11:37:37LloreanI'm not saying we remove the target list, just drop it from the front page.
11:37:50linuxstbHow about a "Quick links" section, similar to the IPL homepage?
11:37:53LloreanI think it's valuable, but I think people skim over it.
11:38:13pixelmaLlorean: that's almost like the last version of the old layout, and maybe I'm late in discussion but I don't think removing the device list from the front page is such a good idea, provided how often we answer here "if your device is not listed on the frontpage as supported, it's not"...
11:38:18LloreanIf you have a paragraph like the one I put there, that links to the targets (and says clearly before the link that it ONLY runs on those) people might not only find them, but understand that it's limited to just them.
11:38:21pondlifeI like the ipodlinux layout, aside from the wikipedia look
11:38:35pondlifeThe icons etc, nice.
11:38:47Lloreanpixelma: Yeah, but what I'd like is a paragraph saying "It only runs on certain devices, and these devices are listed here(Page link)" and then on that page have pictures as well
11:39:31linuxstbI agree with pixelma - the device list is good on the front page. But there could always be a second page, with pictures and more info.
11:39:35LloreanI think that "normal" users expect text, rather than a chart.
11:39:38pondlifeI partucularly like the inclusion of the SVN revision number...
11:40:09LinusNthe issue here is really that so many people don't expect that info to be on the front page
11:40:11LloreanAlso, as the list expands it'll just take up more and more space on the front page.
11:40:26LinusN(the device list)
11:40:31LloreanI think it's just more readable in general to have an introduction paragraph to Rockbox, and then a link to the device list.
11:40:56linuxstbLinusN: I'm not sure I agree with that - where else do people start looking for information if it's not the front page?
11:41:13LinusNthey expect to find a link to the information
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11:41:15Lloreanlinuxstb: People go to the front page to find out *where* information is, rather than the information itself, I think.
11:41:26LloreanSometimes reading past the information in the process.
11:41:46linuxstbThen IMO it's a problem with how we've presented the list, not the fact that the list is there.
11:41:51LinusNfurthermore, it seems that many people don't expect the front page information to be up-to-date and accurate
11:41:58LloreanThere's that too
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11:42:30pixelmaLlorean: exactly as linuxstb said - the list as a quick overview with a link to a more detailed page (with picures), how many people fail to find the "manual" link for example on the current page...
11:42:38LinusNthe front page is expected to be a portal to the real information, not contain the information itself
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11:43:47LloreanI think the paragraph helps more. It says "There's information here, this is what sort it is, and here's some of the most likely things you're seeking."
11:43:59LloreanI think it'd also make it less likely people will miss the "Why Rockbox" link.
11:44:16LinusNand considering the wealth of other information, i think the list of devices can easily be moved somehere else
11:45:26LinusNalso, i think we should have a different appearance on the dynamic boxes and the static information
11:46:00LinusNright now, the introductory text and the device list looks exactly like the dynamic info boxes
11:46:41LinusNi don't really see the point of having the first text block in a box at all
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11:47:45pondlifeAnything that wastes less space is good by me.
11:48:19GodEatershall I put these points into my draft post ?
11:48:54LinusNyou mean my appearance comment?
11:50:07LinusNi like Llorean's mockup
11:50:51LinusNthen again, the current design is quite boring, but in a good way imho
11:50:53pondlifeMe too... add the SVN rev number too though.
11:50:56LloreanLinusN: As pondlife suggested, I think merging major changes into the news (or perhaps just including more news items for added features) would be good
11:51:04pondlifeTricky though.
11:51:19LloreanThe SVN table needs to be more "Full"
11:51:25pondlifeYou'd probably get WMA mentioned twice, for example.
11:51:26LloreanComments, and revisions would be nice.
11:51:43pondlifeRevision should be the first column IMHO
11:51:43Lloreanpondlife: So just have the news updated more often rather than an automated merge.
11:52:18pondlifeOr could the news just be taken from the MajorChanges page perhaps?
11:52:27GodEaterI think that would be better
11:52:27LloreanThat wouldn't work as well
11:52:30LloreanDevcon and such
11:52:34GodEaterNews is dreadful at the moment in my opinion
11:52:37pondlifeHmm, good point
11:52:50GodEaterbut, as just pointed out
11:52:50LloreanGodEater: News needs a maintainer, I think
11:52:52pondlifeSo a non-code News page to merge.
11:53:03GodEaterwe'd need some way to make manual additions
11:53:09LloreanA .html someone's in charge of updating, that gets included or something
11:53:31*LinusN whispers "cms"
11:53:40*pondlife googles
11:53:43GodEatercontent management system
11:54:00GodEatera la Mambo, or similar
11:54:05pondlifeSo, the current wiki maybe? With permissions...
11:54:35LloreanBut yeah, news definitely needs some attention
11:54:58LloreanI think though that for the SVN revision in the changelog, the revision number could just be part of the date column.
11:54:58GodEaterto be honest
11:55:14GodEaterwe could blame the lack of updates to News for people thinking the front page doesnt update very often
11:55:22GodEaterthey can see that svn is dynamically generated
11:55:29*pondlife treates the SVN as news
11:55:34GodEaterbut if we only update news once every 3 months
11:55:47GodEaterthen you could be forgiven for thinking that the rest of the page isn't touched much
11:55:53pondlifeMajorChanges is updated reasonably
11:56:03GodEaterMajor changes isn't the front page
11:56:08pondlifeNo, but it couldbne
11:56:09pondlifecould be
11:56:22GodEateryes it could
11:56:38pondlifeNews on front page = top 8 entries from (MajorChanges + FrontPageNews)?
11:56:40GodEaterwhat I'm saying is, "This is why users assume the current model list is out of date"
11:56:41pondlifeOr similar
11:57:02LinusNGodEater: exactly
11:57:45pondlifeRemoval of the model list is fine with me; I wonder if it would result in more forum queries, or more new ports perhaps?
11:58:06GodEater <−− updated again
12:00:23GodEateranything else that needs to go on it before I put it in the forums ?
12:00:46pondlifeRemove the "again" from point (A)?
12:01:11LinusNnot sure about the collapsable menus though
12:01:23LinusNnot very accessible
12:01:26GodEaterI can take that suggestion out completely
12:01:29pondlifeYes, maybe keep the sidebar out of it.
12:01:48pondlifeSo we can keep consistency across sites too.
12:01:58pondlifeIt's almost there (at last) :)
12:02:08GodEaterD) We still want the navigation bar at the side. If you think you can make it more accessible, then please do so.
12:02:35*Llorean has succeeded in making his mockup horribly ugly because he's useless with tables.
12:02:48GodEaterLlorean: <DIV>!!!!
12:03:04LloreanGodEater: I'm all about the CSS, but I'm making a mockup using existing content, not rebuilding it myself
12:03:21GodEaterit really ought to be a 21st century page now :)
12:04:12GodEater <−− last draft ?
12:04:37*GodEater wonders if Llorean should post it in announcements
12:06:26LloreanGodEater: Did I prevent experts from posting in Announcements?
12:06:32LloreanI may have under the assumption they'd have nothing to announce...
12:06:36GodEateryou did yes
12:06:50GodEateryou even told bluebrother that last week :)
12:06:55GodEateror recently at least
12:07:13amiconnLlorean: Imo it's much better to put links on an actual statement than those ugly (but unfortunately widespread) "click here" links
12:07:33amiconn(referring to the "why rockbox" link in your mockup)
12:07:42GodEaterLlorean: you could just go ahead and make me a forum admin ;)
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12:08:00Lloreanamiconn: That line is actually straight from our existing front page. Not how I'd do it. :)
12:08:23LloreanGodEater: Post it in General Discussion. Then try moving it to Announcements. If that fails, let me know, and I'll move it.
12:08:54kugeli have a problem. I have such a beep sound when I skip the track
12:09:03kugelpretty anonying one
12:09:26kugelit wasn't before today
12:09:49GodEaterLlorean: that appeared to work.
12:10:18LloreanGodEater: I had a gut feeling it would
12:11:03LloreanI mean I could give y'all the ability to post there, but honestly I'd rather keep that line of "You shouldn't be posting here, but you can if you MUST"
12:11:20GodEateryou mean you want us to know our place ;)
12:12:11Lloreankugel: Check in the manual, it's a setting but I don't know what it's called
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12:13:06kugeli didnt change any settings, it appeared after a reboot
12:14:34Lloreankugel: Then the beeps are magical, and we can't fix them. Either you changed the setting, or there's a bug. If you changed the setting, you can turn it off. If it's a bug, we can't fix it until you document it.
12:14:43kugelok found it
12:14:44kugelthank you
12:15:21kugelmaybe i turned it on a few days, but never actually skipped a song since then
12:16:39GodEaterdammit - I thought of something we missed that needs to go on the front page
12:17:04GodEater"<blink><font size="ginormous">No - we don't work with the new ipods</font></blink>"
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12:17:39*Llorean wonders how hard it'd be to get "ginormous" accepted as a valid size.
12:17:50GodEaterpretty hard I imagine
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12:17:55GodEaterbut you get the idea ;)
12:18:12JdGordon_GodEater: do you really tihnk that would stop people asking?
12:18:27LloreanNo, he forgot to set the color to re.d
12:19:59GodEaterwith a luminous green outline
12:20:03aliaskAnd make it a marquee
12:20:18*GodEater waits for further UI horrors to be thought of
12:20:27GodEaterwith a dancing hamster at each end ?
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12:22:08aliaskHrm, I'd just like to clarify a few things before I post off this message on the espeak forums
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12:22:52aliaskWould it be possible to link in the eSpeak codec/plugin seperately to avoid license conflicts?
12:22:59aliaskSort of like how linux etc does it?
12:23:57B4gderthat would require a pretty drastic remodeling
12:25:26aliaskOk, that'll do then.
12:26:16JdGordon_GodEater: (/me a bit late) I tihnk point 2 is a bit harshe....
12:26:55GodEaterI think it's a bit pointless someone submitting a mockup if they can't make it work
12:27:11JdGordon_so, but some people are creative, and some are coders
12:27:15 Nick JdGordon_ is now known as JdGordon (n=jonno@rockbox/developer/JdGordon)
12:27:21GodEaterso then they get together
12:27:25GodEaterthere's nothing stopping a team entry
12:27:42GodEaterthen Mr. Creative can send his .PSD to the coder chap
12:27:59JdGordonno, but saying they arnt alowd to submit a mockup means a creative person who cant code will probably not bother
12:28:17LinusNi don't mind a mockup as long as it is a HTML/CSS page and not just an image
12:28:30GodEaterthe "just an image" is what I'm trying to avoid
12:28:44GodEaterperhaps I should clarify that point
12:28:48JdGordoneven an image is fine imo... it just wont be given as much credit as a full blown site would
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12:29:03GodEateralthough I thought "rendered view" was pretty clear already
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12:29:33LloreanMaybe something along the lines of "The preferred entry is in HTML/CSS, and functioning. If the page is a mock-up, it may be discarded out of hand if too difficult to make effective"
12:30:01LloreanAnd then something about "if you don't know HTML, collaboration is in the spirit of open source"
12:30:37GodEatercomments please :)
12:30:53GodEaterI've removed the "we want perl" bit too
12:31:05JdGordonyeah, thats better
12:31:36*GodEater is glad he put the bit in about "changing the rules as we go along"
12:32:12GodEaterGoal post moving seems to be a way of life where I work - so why not Rockbox too ?
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12:34:10ByronFortescueIs there any way of excluding folders from the database?
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12:37:26n1sByronFortescue: nope
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12:48:53amiconnHmm, are there 2 different types of (original) H1x0 leather cases?
12:51:01rasheramiconn: Yeah. At least the ihp110 I bought for Linus had a different one from mine
12:51:34rasherWithout a plastic window iirc (but a more sturdy protection over the display)
12:52:22amiconnThe case in your auction is black, and the front is not a big flap, like the one for my H140 (which is brown)
12:52:42rasherThat sounds like the one the h110 had
12:53:24rasherI bought mine just when the ihp name was discontinued
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12:53:58LloreanYeah, I have the older case too
12:54:12amiconnOn a different matter, I'd like to ask you whether you could change so that it doesn't start tons of processes anymore, like you did with (the implementation of)
12:54:13***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
12:54:27amiconnThis would cut down 'make zip' runtime (drastically on cygwin)
12:56:01rasherWow, is really a sort of perl/shellscript hybrid
12:56:13rasherUsing lots of external apps for stuff that could be handled by perl
12:56:20rasherAs far as I can tell
12:56:43amiconnYup. Calling 'cp' a thousand times, plus other tools
12:58:12rasherAnd find.. which calls cp.. I have a feeling that could be done somewhat nicer
12:58:53GodEaterfix it
12:59:20B4gderperhaps we should fix all cygwin users to run linux? ;-)
12:59:28*B4gder ducks and runs
12:59:33rasherI wonder if it was once named, then someone needed a single function of Perl and hastily converted it while leaving most of the shell script calls intact
13:00:06B4gdernot necesarily, I use to write my perl like that
13:00:16B4gderI don't use cygwin...
13:00:59amiconnThis approach is also slower than using perl functions on linux, just not as much as on cygwin
13:01:12B4gdersure, but on linux we won't notice the speed difference
13:01:29B4gderI never wrote that to be a speedy script, just a working one
13:01:39B4gderand it runs fast enough on linux
13:02:03B4gderI find it sad that we have to rewrite it just because we have and use inferior systems
13:02:08B4gderbut I accept that fact
13:04:04JdGordonI was going to ask for buildzip to be split up into seperate files so make can do more than 1 at a time to speed it up...
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13:07:14B4gderI wouldn't mind, if that separation is made in a logical way
13:12:02JdGordonalso, making it not delete the .rockbox so a make install equivilant for real targets would be nice
13:12:54rasherinstall: zip unzip -d SOMEDIRHERE
13:13:03B4gderwhy would the removal of .rockbox affect that?
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13:13:25B4gderit is only called .rockbox to make it easier to build a zip using that name
13:13:33JdGordonI mean, it should just finish before making the zip
13:13:52B4gderyou mean if you symlink .rockbox to your target?
13:14:11JdGordonthat could work though
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13:14:37greenlemonin my mp3s i had the disc number stored on an id3 tag as Disc 2/3 for example, which itunes recognzied but when i go on rockbox it just ignores it and in the albums just places for example 3 track number ones in a row, is there any option i can activate to change this or so?
13:14:38JdGordoncreating and unzipping the zip is slow when zp -R .rockbox /dest would do just as well
13:14:52GodEaters/zp/cp ?
13:14:57B4gderbut I'm sure buildzip could take an option to make it not remove and build zip
13:15:35JdGordonyeah, I was going to give that a go a while ago, but got scared by the Makefile and perl :p
13:15:59greenlemon(oh and congrats on rockbox, its amazing, i'd been using it for quite a while on my iriver 120 and have loved it ever since, even now on my ipod =) )
13:20:50GodEatergreenlemon: are you using the database ?
13:21:34GodEatergreenlemon: then I think you can acheive what you want with a customized tagnavi file
13:21:48GodEaterbut you're better off asking in the forums, as very few people here use the database
13:22:08greenlemonbut i can find online how to custumise tagnavi then?
13:22:16B4gderI can ahrdly speel databse
13:22:43B4gderin fact, I've never used it on any of my targets
13:22:45pixelmagreenlemon: the DataBase wiki page has some inf, IIRC
13:22:55greenlemonthanks :)
13:23:12greenlemonand keep up the amazing work! :D i'll go give it a try and try to work it out :)
13:23:19greenlemontake care :)
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13:27:26ZaisterHello I have a question, does rockbox provide any support?
13:28:01GodEaterZaister: yes it does
13:28:08Zaisteroh cool
13:28:14GodEaterit's in the manual
13:28:18pixelmaread about it on
13:28:20B4gderrockbox _is_ cool
13:28:22Zaisteri have an iRiver H140
13:28:35Zaisterand i've been using rockbox for quite a while
13:28:39Zaisterbut my version was old :)
13:29:01peturZaister: yes
13:29:09peturjust enable it under playback settings
13:29:37*petur totally ignored the link pixelma posted
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13:48:21 Part pixelma
13:54:17aliaskJon at eSpeak has replied to my forum post, but I feel like I'm completely out of my depth with it all, does someone want to at least fill me in, or take over?
13:55:52B4gder1) rockbox is not linux so the linux case is totally besides the point
13:56:09B4gder2) the "version 2 or later" phrase is not used in Rockbox and thus it doesn't apply
13:56:29Zaisterthanks for the tip, and bye!
13:56:36B4gderbesides, we still use lot of other gplv2 code that if so _also_ would need to go v3
13:56:39 Quit Zaister (".<UPP>.")
13:57:00B4gderaliask: it seems his motive is just to tighten the "loopholes"
13:59:17rasher"If the Program does not specify a version number of this License, you may choose any version ever published by the Free Software Foundation."
13:59:22rasherNow that's surprising.
13:59:45rasherWhere does it say that? In the actual license, or in some sort of "help" part?
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14:12:45chrisjs169Any ideas on the cause of FS7743 and FS7744?
14:13:20JdGordonand now your cross posting!
14:13:26JdGordonban him!
14:15:52JdGordonthey moved the power button...!
14:17:15 Quit Febs (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
14:19:25aliaskHrm, does someone want to finish my sentance for me here: ?
14:19:49aliaskHe seems pretty touchy about me bringing it up
14:25:26B4gderlike ?
14:26:02JdGordonrevert or consider dual licensing?
14:26:32B4gderhm right, dual is an option... but gplv2/gplv3 feels like a very funny dual license
14:26:51B4gderand rather pointless to them
14:27:03GodEateryeah, I can't see them going for it
14:27:04LloreanThey could revert to GPLv2 or later.
14:27:19B4gderwasn't that what they had?
14:27:40GodEaterit sounds to me like they're keen to avoid tivoisation
14:27:57LloreanYeah. I just mean, it's possible that he just updated without too much though, based on the "loopholes" thing, and without thinking of how it might affect users of his code.
14:27:57B4gderit sounds to me like they just believe what fsf says
14:28:00GodEaterwhich would make switching to gplv2 or later pointless from their point of view
14:28:14B4gder"3 is better than 2!"
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14:28:49JdGordonB4gder: you dont need the FSF to know 3 is better than 2...
14:28:49B4gderI think we'll have to go back to the v2 version
14:28:49 Quit linuxstb (Client Quit)
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14:30:00aliaskB4gder: Thanks, that sounds good.
14:30:04markunB4gder, Llorean: if by 'they' you mean the eSpeak devs, it's basically 'he'
14:30:25chrissy88hi, i'm trying to compile rockbox using ubuntu, but when i type "make", i only get errors and warnings. has anybody allready tried to compile with ubuntu ?
14:30:29linuxstb__Doesn't that quote (if no version is specified, any version) mean we could switch to v3? From what I could see when I looked recently, all the external code we're using is v2 or later.
14:30:31B4gdermarkun: yes that's what I meant
14:30:34JdGordonis there much difference between the last v2 version and current?
14:30:54B4gderJdGordon: I doubt that, at least not yet
14:31:06Lloreanchrissy88: Many people.
14:31:20*linuxstb__ afk
14:31:24B4gderchrissy88: install "build-essential"
14:31:54chrissy88B4gder: what do you mean with "build-essential" ?
14:32:06kasbawhat is the coding of the ipod fat32 ?
14:32:11B4gderI mean you should install that package
14:32:14JdGordonchrissy88: sudo apt-get install build-essential
14:33:34chrissy88JdGordon: OK, the download starts...
14:37:47markunkasba: what do you mean?
14:38:09markunif ipods all use FAT32?
14:38:35chrissy88JdGordon: now i get the error "arm-elf-gcc: Command not found"
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14:38:51JdGordonchrissy88: did you run
14:38:59B4gderchrissy88: ... and edited your PATH?
14:39:30chrissy88sorry, but what could you explain ?
14:39:38JdGordondamn that link iss hard to find :p
14:39:48 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
14:39:59chrissy88i already built the cross compiler using a Shellscript
14:41:11JdGordonB4gder: is there any reason why we can do cat PATH=$PATH:blaa >> ~/.bashrc at the end of that script if the shell is bash?
14:41:30B4gderyes, because the user may not use bash
14:41:40B4gderand I personally would hate it...
14:41:42JdGordonbut we can check the shell cant we?
14:41:56B4gderyes we can
14:42:15B4gderbut still, what if the user already has the PATH fixed?
14:42:38B4gderlike when you run the script to update your compiler(s)
14:43:02JdGordonit could check that also
14:43:23GodEater`which arm-elf-gcc`
14:43:43B4gderyes, but that only means that the PATH is fine, not that it exists in a proper file
14:43:54B4gderbut that might be good enough
14:43:55JdGordonclose enough imho
14:44:17JdGordonit could also ask if the user wants it added automatically or not
14:44:21pondlifeHmm, rockboxui.exe seems to have a memory leak today
14:44:21rasherGodEater: if [ -f `which arm-elf-gcc` ]
14:44:43rasherif [ -f "`which arm-elf-gcc`" ]
14:44:46pondlifeThe memory usage (according to Windows Task Manager) increases all the time.
14:44:59GodEater$(which arm-elf-gcc)
14:45:04JdGordonthread bug maybe?
14:45:12B4gderof course, what if the PATH contains an older gcc dir... :-)
14:45:22pondlifeIt's new in the past 2 weeks I think
14:45:30rasherGodEater: 1) Backticks have wider support than $() 2) you need to test what the command outputs (some implementations of which output an error message)
14:45:33*pondlife will play SVN-binary-chop-bingo.
14:45:42JdGordonjhMikeS: sounds like pondlife found a bug for you
14:46:03GodEaterrasher: I was just being controversial :)
14:46:05JdGordonB4gder: it could test the gcc version if its found
14:46:19B4gderor we could just skip this
14:46:47JdGordonsimplifying the script for non-devs would be nice though
14:47:06*JdGordon fears thats the 5th thing ive said "would be nice" to in as many hours
14:47:45B4gdersimplying is good, trying to make it fool-proof is not
14:48:13*JdGordon feels we should have a vote on a motion to start discussions on the possibility of decing on a course of action
14:49:28GodEaterwith sub-commitees to examine every aspect of those actions
14:50:14JdGordonof course
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14:52:09pondlifewould be nice :)
14:52:38*JdGordon fails at shell scripting
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14:59:41pondlifejhMikeS: If you'd like to look into it, it's noted on
15:00:16B4gderfor a system with no malloc, it is quite a feat to leak memory ;-)
15:00:24pondlifeMy thought exactly!
15:00:35pondlifeThat's the problem, no free() !
15:00:40GodEaterpondlife: must be your SDL
15:00:50JdGordonso we introduce free() but leave malloc out?
15:01:55pondlifeGodEater: Are there alternative SDLs I can download? I have one that came with Cygwin.
15:02:10GodEaterpondlife: build your own wuss!
15:02:36pondlife might help
15:02:37Prowhere do i find new wps
15:03:00Prowhich work with the newest album art/scroll margins patches"
15:04:18 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
15:04:25GodEaterpondlife: when are you going to ditch this cygwin nonsense ? :)
15:04:48 Join JdGordon [0] (
15:04:48markunPro: in the rockbox forums I think
15:05:15pondlifeHaha, the Cygwin SDL.DLL results in memory usage starting at 5MB and creeping up to 22MB after 20 mins. The libsdl SDL.DLL results in it starting at 38MB!
15:05:19amiconn22MB aren't that much
15:05:19pondlifeBut not climbing
15:05:37amiconnOn linux I observed rockbox sim ram usage of >140MB
15:05:42chrissy88does somebody know how to get arm-elf-gcc in PATH
15:05:55actionshrimptry saying libsdl sdl.dll over and over again when youre drunk
15:05:55pondlifeYes, but rockboxui.exe now uses more memory than Outlook + Word
15:06:12krazykitchrissy88, add it to .bash_profile if you're using bash
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15:06:35krazykitzsh, tsch, use their respective config files
15:06:51chrissy88krazykit: i'm using the ubnutu terminal
15:07:12krazykitadd it to .bash_profile
15:07:18krazykitcan't help with that as i don't use bash
15:07:58GodEaterdoesn't ubuntu use dash ?
15:08:07krazykitubuntu links sh to dash
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15:08:13krazykitlogins are all bash by default
15:08:19krazykiter, dash to sh, rather
15:08:56GodEaterok gotcha
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15:10:36JdGordonrockboxui mem usage seems to be stable at 36500 on my box playing music (linux amd64)
15:10:37jhMikeSB4gder: we had such a memory leak with voice and buffer_alloc use in the past (I know the bug is a sim bug though)
15:10:38amiconnpondlife: No memory leak here. The sim allocates ~39MB of virtual memory right from the start. RAM usage is around 6MB. Starting playback increases ram usage to all virtual memory. That's it
15:10:58jhMikeSdoes it free it's dlls?
15:13:07aliaskWe got another response from Jon of eSpeak, claiming we CAN change the license, because the note at the top of the source files doesn't specify the version.
15:13:24GodEateraliask: our license you mean?
15:13:32GodEaternot the espeak one
15:13:37pondlifeHmm, so the increase is to be expected. I'll leave it climbing.
15:13:52aliaskGodEater: Yep
15:14:08jhMikeSwell, I know little about the codec loading in the sim and whether or not it ever calls FreeLibrary there
15:16:27pondlifeIt doesn't load a codec very often though...
15:16:45preglowwhy would mpegplayer give me an undef instruction...
15:17:06pondlifeLunch time...
15:17:08jhMikeSpreglow: for which player?
15:17:17preglownano, and it just did it once...
15:17:24jhMikeScache coherency
15:17:44preglowit really glitches on this one too, though
15:18:06 Quit JdGordon (Remote closed the connection)
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15:18:43preglowperhaps it just can't handle the intro sequence to aqua teen hunger force :>
15:18:44jhMikeSit's all cache trouble and needs a going over to keep the line clobbering away I think
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15:19:34preglowi discovered i need to keep the intro sequence to the movie with me at all times, so i'm encoding it :P
15:19:46jhMikeSdoesn't like meatwad?
15:20:08preglowdoesn't like mastodon, apparently
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15:21:36preglowhmm, it really struggles, lags along at times, then suddenly decodes like mad to keep up
15:22:04 Quit JdGordon (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
15:24:00jhMikeSinvalide_icache is also not correct, it seems to need to do the for(i=0x10000000; i < 0x10002000; i++) inb(i); to function correctly as well.
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15:40:32linuxstbB4gder: I can't find anything in the Rockbox source that says "v2 only", so it seems that espeak-jon is right to say we could easily switch Rockbox to v3 (as per para. 9 of the GPL)....
15:41:44preglowwith no copyright holder agreement or nothing?
15:43:14linuxstbIIUC, the (C) holder has already agreed to "any version" by not explicitly stating one.
15:43:53GodEaterthat makes sense
15:44:16linuxstbPara 9. of the GPL seems to cover Rockbox...
15:44:31*JdGordon feels the urge to be annoying and quiclkly change one of the files i have (c) of to gplv2 only :p
15:44:56linuxstbJdGordon: Then we would just revert to the current version...
15:45:10JdGordonbut.. but....
15:46:20peturand get rid of the settings macros? :p
15:46:47JdGordonone day you all will realise just how brilliant they are!!
15:46:56JdGordonI may be 80 by then... but it will happen
15:50:28preglowthe fact that mplayer itself can't seem to play its own movies correctly bodes well...
15:52:30pondlifeGodEater: You have two point Cs in
15:52:53pondlifeBut, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
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15:54:58pondlifeamiconn: Did you decide to take up the offer of a bad Nano from the guy on the ML?
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15:59:26GodEaterpondlife: updated thank you
16:02:34GodEaterpondlife: so when can I expect your submission ?
16:03:14pondlifeHaha, when I've fixed playback??
16:03:45pondlifeWhich is some time after we have a new default theme
16:04:08pondlife(Cyclic dependency detected.)
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16:08:06Chrononpondlife: Who me?
16:08:56ChrononOh, good. Someone else is offering their nano too, are they?
16:09:33pondlifeAh, don't know - sorry - wrong topic!
16:09:52ChrononMy fault. That was a few minutes ago, I see.
16:09:54 Quit linuxstb ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
16:10:06GodEaterChronon: he means playback in general, not specifically the nano issue
16:10:27Chronon<pondlife> amiconn: Did you decide to take up the offer of a bad Nano from the guy on the ML?
16:10:36ChrononI was talking about that. . .
16:10:52GodEateroh - I missed that too
16:10:56pondlifeSorry, couldn't remember who it was that offered.
16:11:25pondlifeBut even though I don't have an iPod of any sort, it seemed a sensible way forward.
16:11:52GodEaterpondlife is full of suggestions, but very few solutions ;)
16:12:14pondlifeThat's my speciality.
16:12:24pondlifeI just annoy people until they do my bidding.
16:12:34GodEaterdoes it work ?
16:12:42pondlifeIt's called Management
16:12:46Chrononhaha. Well, I only have a buggy nano. If you can annoy someone into action and I send them my unit we might get somewhere!
16:13:28*GodEater predicts it'll magically start working again during transit
16:13:58pondlifeDidn't we look at the stats and decide it was due to longitude or something?
16:14:04GodEaterfairly sure
16:14:17GodEatersomething about exposure to high levels of solar wind
16:14:37GodEaterplus whenever there's an "R" in the month
16:14:47pondlifelunar wind, wasn't it?
16:15:01ChrononOh good. May is coming up in a couple of months
16:15:39 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
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16:15:48GodEatermove north
16:15:57pondlifeSome languages don't use R so often, try running Rockbox in another language?
16:16:06GodEaterlike Japanese
16:16:13pondlifeNo, longitude, not latitude
16:16:14bowlHello. Couldn't iTunes be cracked/decompiled to find out how the firmware in nano 2G is encrypted?
16:16:16ChrononGodEater −− You mean East
16:16:33B4gderbowl: no
16:16:35GodEaterbowl: not really no
16:17:05bowlBecause the signature is verified on the DAP?
16:17:10pondlifebowl: Yes. Best bet would be to send a spy into the Apple labs.
16:17:11GodEater"<pondlife> Didn't we look at the stats and decide it was due to longitude or something?" <−− I agreed with the "or something"
16:17:17B4gderneither can firefox, internet explorer or google ;-9
16:17:34B4gderbowl: itunes has nothing to do with the firmware encryption
16:17:55pondlifeFunny how people give iTunes so much credit.
16:18:04bowlB4gder: is iTunes just used to transfer music? Or also for FW updates?
16:18:07ChrononI think a lot of people think that's the name of the Apple firmware.
16:18:11*GodEater still likes it from ripping CDs
16:18:18B4gderbowl: itunes is just a host program
16:18:59bowlI don't use it myself, just thought if we can't find out how the sign is verified we can find out how to create a valid one
16:19:24B4gderbowl: but itunes won't check the sign nor generated it
16:19:38B4gderit most likely just gets a remote file and puts it on the ipod
16:19:54bowlB4gder: ah, that's the point. No chance then :-/
16:19:55B4gderor possibly communicates with the running ipod firmware
16:20:10amiconnChronon: I'm not sure whether sending the nano to me from the US is a good idea. Not because of shipment costs, but because of possible customs issues
16:20:11B4gderit would surprise me greatly if itunes would have any clues
16:20:25B4gderof this kind, I mean
16:21:14amiconnWould be easier if either someone in the EU has a problematic nano and would be willing to send it, or a dev located in the US would take your offer
16:21:24bowlB4gder: so you mean, FW updates are prepared and signed somewhere at Apple, and iTunes downloads them and puts to the dap?
16:21:34B4gderyes, I would expect so
16:21:48pondlifeamiconn: What if someone in the EU received the nano, then sent it on to you?
16:21:56Chrononamiconn: linuxstb mentioned this. I'm hoping we can find a European donor or an American developer.
16:21:59pondlifeI could do that if it helps.
16:22:51GodEaterwhat? find a donor ?
16:22:58ChrononDoes anyone have much knowledge of the customs restrictions?
16:23:01pondlifeNo, act as a customs middleman
16:23:01GodEaterare you going to start mugging old ladies again pondlife ?
16:23:34 Part bowl
16:23:56pondlifeagain? I don't recall doing that, although I had been drinking.
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16:25:17ivan`DAP laundering
16:25:59pondlifeI don't think there's a problem with this sort of thing - both gifts and commercial samples are normally ignored by customs.
16:26:14pondlifeThis is one of those, I'm pretty sure.
16:26:17B4gderwould you mind receiving a few unmarked boxes with suspect substances for me too? ;-)
16:26:19pondlifeNo money paid for it.
16:26:50pondlifeB4gder: Sure. Hey - I can't be blamed if you wrote my address on a label, can I?
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16:27:07amiconnWell, if you buy something from outside the EU, there is a (rather low) limit below which there are no fees to pay
16:28:42amiconnI don't know what rules apply when you receive something "for repair"
16:29:14amiconnpondlife: Would be the same thing. That someone would then have to pay the fee (if there is any) instead of me
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16:36:53pondlifeamiconn: Would it not be worthwhile to continue and pay the duty from the Rockbox fund then?
16:37:22pondlifeSeems this issue is unlikely to get fixed any faster way, sadly.
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16:39:12B4gderI think we can use the fund for this
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16:39:59pondlifeNot saying that it has to be amiconn, of course - just thought he was most skilled in this area, and wondered it there was progress.
16:50:57morrijris the source for the web site available somewhere? Subversion?
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16:54:28B4gderparts of it is in subversion
16:54:40morrijrfront page?
16:54:47morrijr(not the app!)
16:54:58B4gderunfortunately not the front page
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17:00:46lazkacool, new sansa (german)
17:01:57 Join The-Compiler [0] (
17:02:08lazkalooks like the same GUI.. maybe they changed only the processor..
17:04:57lazkahere is the official press release:
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17:06:43 Join toffe82 [0] (
17:07:28webguest54Sansa View anounced today, 16Gb with micro SDHC :)
17:08:05lazkai've just posted it ^^
17:09:31chrisjs169"optional 8GB microSD/microSDHC card"
17:09:32 Quit agm3nt (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
17:09:45chrisjs169since when are there 8GB microSD cards?
17:10:32chrisjs169sad....the View can have more space than this hard drive
17:11:35Galoisthey came out last year. they don't work in all devices.
17:11:50chrisjs169Galois, you sure you aren't talking about microSDHC?
17:12:11Galoisit must be sdhc
17:12:57chrisjs169i know
17:13:22chrisjs169but they're implying there's 8GB non-microSDHC cards
17:13:28*chrisjs169 quits arguing about useless stuff
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17:32:19ChrononI just got a message from someone in EU who has a buggy Nano and is willing to lend it to an interested developer.
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17:35:00The-Compilerwhere are the SVN-chances now?
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17:41:02ivan`how is a buggy nano different?
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17:41:52ChrononIt suffers from a bug that has broken playback for quite a while (r13990 IIRC)
17:42:09ChrononThere's a minority of Nano users who are having to deal with this.
17:44:02 Quit lazka (Remote closed the connection)
17:47:14The-CompilerWhat's the difference of a X5 and a X5V
17:47:42amiconnThe V has no radio
17:48:01tictocgonna be trying to install rockbox on this new e280
17:48:14 Quit advcomp2019 ("Leaving")
17:48:23Chrononamiconn: did you mention that you might be interested in looking at a buggy nano?
17:49:16The-Compileramiconn: thanks
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17:49:49tictocaahj man
17:50:55einhirnYay - I finally solved the math problem I had in my head concerning replaygain on archos (recorder)
17:51:54einhirnSome code fixing to do, testing and you'll receive a patch ;)
17:52:39tictocwhat tools do i need to install rb ?
17:52:39tictocwhat program ?
17:53:15The-Compilertictoc: You can do it manually or use RockboxUtility (RbUtil)
17:53:16Domonokyonly zip and sansapatcher for a e280... or use rbutil.. :-)
18:01:05tictocrbutil crashes
18:01:31Domonokyreally ? tell me the error.. :-)
18:01:46 Join Rondom [0] (
18:02:37tictocthe error is vista
18:03:15ChrononOoh.. the current build got almost 5 minutes into my first track before skipping on my Nano. I started to get my hopes up that the playback bug had somehow been fixed.
18:03:16Domonoky:-) nobody has tested rbutil on vista.. :-)
18:03:17tictoci dont get any message really
18:03:30tictocuntil now, you mean
18:04:11Domonokytictoc: jop.. would ne nice to know why it failes.. maybe it blocked by UAC ?
18:04:50tictocno idea
18:05:53Domonokycould you try to run it as administrator ?
18:05:54 Quit The-Compiler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:06:22tictocyes.. i did run it as admin, still crashed
18:06:45tictocforgot to mention
18:07:01tictocit crashes when i select 'yes' on 'should it autodetect devices'
18:07:43Domonokyah.. then i know.. :-) its the "patchers" which dont work on vista...
18:07:50tictocnah.. it crashes eaither way, even when i select 'no'
18:07:50tictocit just cant detect the e280
18:08:03tictoci see
18:08:19Domonokyso you probably also get problems when you install the bootloader via sansapatcher..
18:08:41tictocyoure saying i cant install rb at all on vista?
18:08:50Domonokyi am not sure..
18:09:03Domonokytry it with the sansapatcher as described in the manual..
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18:13:56Rincewindis someone here who usess Git with rockbox?
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18:16:29GodEater_Rincewind: I do
18:16:34GodEater_only to pull though
18:19:22Rincewindi tried setting it up but compilation fails
18:19:46GodEater_what's that got to do with git though ?
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18:20:26Rincewindi don't know. If I check out trough svn, then a compile works. the same revision in my git repository fails
18:20:44Rincewindthis is one of the messages: gcc: unrecognized option '-070910"'
18:21:08Rincewindthen comes this: main.c:118: error: missing terminating " character
18:21:08tictocDomonoky, im copyin the .rockbox folder into the sansa drive
18:21:20Domonokytictoc: the sansapatcher worked ?
18:21:30GodEater_Rincewind: how are you getting the repo with git ?
18:21:39Rincewindthe thing is, there is no difference in main.c (except for the id-string in the header)
18:21:58tictocDomonoky, im using explorer for this
18:22:00RincewindI used the second route on the wiki page
18:22:01GodEater_Rincewind: what about character encoding and line endings ?
18:22:21Chronontictoc: But sansapatcher ran properly?
18:22:32tictocstupid thing says its "writing"
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18:22:41tictocChronon, i suppose
18:22:48Domonokytictoc: read the manual.. there are two parts of the installation.. one involves sansapatcher, to install the bootloader..
18:22:50tictoci 'did' install it
18:22:51Rincewindit is on the same machine in ubuntu, should be the same
18:23:16*GodEater_ goes off to remind himself what the git wiki page says
18:23:31GodEater_shocking really since I wrote a lot of it :)
18:24:00RincewindGodEater_: do you have the $id string in the header at the top of the files?
18:24:21GodEater_Rincewind: of course...
18:24:45GodEater_Rincewind: so did you get it from Nico's "public repository" rather than using git svn ?
18:25:02GodEater_I've no idea when he last updated that
18:25:40GodEater_and I never tried it or shoe horning in svn support afterwards
18:25:47Rincewindit was about two months old. but a "git fetch" downloaded the latest revisions from svn
18:25:57GodEater_hold on then
18:26:02 Part Agm3nt
18:26:04GodEater_I'll try his method into a fresh tree
18:26:08GodEater_and see if it works
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18:26:56GodEater_Rincewind: will take me a few minutes - that ok ?
18:27:00Rincewindlike I said, the only difference to a svn checkout is the missing $id in every file
18:27:16Rincewindno prob, I've got time
18:27:43*GodEater_ is also in the middle of an emerge −−sync which is chewing processor time
18:28:18homieloweAnyone could point me in the right direction in compiling rockbox on a mac?
18:28:27Rincewindmy laptop battery has got 2 hours left ^^
18:30:11Domonokyhomielowe: an easy way would be to use the vmware image on macosx .. :-)
18:30:54GodEater_Rincewind: I'm on the git svn fetch stage
18:30:59homieloweI prefer to compile natively if thats the easier way :)
18:31:14tictocit worked
18:31:42Chronongood to hear, tictoc.
18:32:08 Quit obo ("bye")
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18:32:42tictocthanks :)
18:33:39ChrononIt seems there's nothing fundamentally preventing the install process on Vista, then. Hopefully the fix for RButil will not be too difficult.
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18:34:05tictocnow i must figure out how to move music
18:34:12Domonokyyes.. the only problem is finding the bug in rbutil.. :-)
18:34:28Chronontictoc: Explorer?
18:34:56tictocthe drive doesnt come up as a letter somehow
18:35:06ChrononOh... I forgot that about the Sansas
18:35:08GodEater_Rincewind: it's currently churning through a build now - no problems so far
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18:36:38tictocyes.. now its up
18:38:12GodEater_Rincewind: build finished
18:38:15GodEater_no problems at all
18:38:22tictocoh my dear it will take forever to transfer files
18:38:50GodEater_Rincewind: I assume you've not modified your source tree at all ?
18:38:54GodEater_No patches or anything ?
18:39:08Rincewindi made a branch, applied a patch to it.
18:39:13Rincewindthen i switched back to master
18:39:33RincewindI am sure that the master wasn't changed at all by this
18:39:49GodEater_so "git branch whatever" "git checkout whatever" "patch -p0 < thepatch.diff" and then "git checkout master" ?
18:40:14GodEater_possibly with a "git commit -a" just before the last checkout of master
18:40:38Rincewindgit branch whatever, git checkout whatever, ...working there... git commit -a, git checkout master, try to build
18:41:00GodEater_so if you do "git branch" it shows you're on master yes /
18:41:08RincewindI did a git svn rebase which pulled a one or two new commits
18:41:14Rincewindyes, i am on master
18:41:20GodEater_do a git reset −−hard
18:41:25GodEater_then try the compile again
18:41:57Rincewindchanged nothing
18:42:25GodEater_and git status shows ?
18:42:31Rincewindi searched with grep for this misterious gcc: unrecognized option '-070910"' but didn't find anything
18:42:50Rincewindnothing added to commit but untracked files present (use "git add" to track)
18:43:40Rincewindthe untracked files are simbuild/ and a few files in tools/ which are generated during a build. nothing suspicious
18:44:10GodEater_that's the date
18:44:32GodEater_the -070910
18:44:41Rincewindhm ok, so it is generated somewhere
18:44:43GodEater_have you tried deleting your build directory
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18:44:48GodEater_and redoing configure
18:45:01Rincewindyes, a few times
18:45:12GodEater_which OS you on ?
18:45:14GodEater_ubuntu ?
18:45:25Rincewindubuntu 7.10 gutsy
18:45:36GodEater_wonder if this is a dash/bash issue
18:46:10Rincewindthe svn checkout on the same machine is working...
18:46:12GodEater_and it's a sim you're trying to build, not an actual target
18:46:15chrisjs169i'm on gutsy as well - what's the problem?
18:47:15GodEater_he checked out the code tree using git instead of svn
18:47:18GodEater_and it won't build
18:47:28GodEater_Rincewind: could you pastebin the entire error please ?
18:48:24GodEater_Rincewind: it still could be a dash/bash issue
18:48:40GodEater_could you redo the symlink from sh->dash
18:48:46GodEater_and replace it with one to bash
18:49:11GodEater_the configure / make process tries to do some funky stuff with the svn version
18:49:17GodEater_which doesn't work on a git tree
18:49:42GodEater_and that gcc error is making me suspicious that that's the issue
18:49:46RincewindGodEater, I think you are on to something there
18:50:05GodEater_with bash running configure it doesn't matter - you just get left with an empty version string
18:50:13GodEater_but clearly dash is tripping on it
18:50:33GodEater_are you okay redoing the symlink ?
18:50:57Rincewindif you tell me exactly where and how...
18:51:23GodEater_first do "which sh"
18:51:32GodEater_and find out which directory it's in (/bin I'm guessing)
18:51:41eigmamaybe run with make V=1 so you see the gcc command line?
18:51:43RincewindI'm there
18:51:59GodEater_then do "rm /bin/sh"
18:52:11GodEater_followed by "ln -s /bin/bash sh"
18:52:54GodEater_then wipe out your whole simbuild dir
18:52:58GodEater_and re-run configure
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18:54:20Rincewindno, didn't change anything
18:54:22***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
18:55:19GodEater_do you have an in the tools directory ?
18:55:34eigma*ahem* maybe run with make V=1 so you see the gcc command line?
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18:55:48Rincewindeigma: I try it now
18:56:04GodEater_I don't think that helps
18:56:09GodEater_we know the command line is broken
18:56:22eigmaat least we can find out *how*' it's boken
18:56:40GodEater_that's somewhere in the process of constructing the Makefile
18:57:42Rincewindgcc -I/home/rince/rockbox/firmware/target/coldfire/iriver/h100 -I/home/rince/rockbox/firmware/target/coldfire/iriver -I/home/rince/rockbox/firmware/target/coldfire -I/home/rince/rockbox/firmware/include -I/home/rince/rockbox/firmware/export -I. -I/home/rince/rockbox/simbuild -I/home/rince/rockbox/simbuild/bitmaps -I/home/rince/rockbox/simbuild/apps -Irecorder -Igui -W -Wall -g -fno-builtin -I/usr/include/SDL -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT -
18:57:42RincewindI/home/rince/rockbox/uisimulator/sdl -Wno-pointer-sign -fno-strict-aliasing -DIRIVER_H120 -DYEAR=2007 -DMONTH=09 -DDAY=10 -DDEBUG -DTARGET_ID=9 -DAPPSVERSION=\"rexportiert -070910\" -DSIMULATOR -DMEM=32 -DTARGET_NAME=\"h120\" -c bookmark.c -o /home/rince/rockbox/simbuild/apps/bookmark.o
18:57:42Rincewindgcc: unrecognized option '-070910"'
18:58:27GodEater_well it's the DAPPSVERSION that's broken
18:59:12eigmaRincewind: in simbuild, "grep VERSION Makefile"
18:59:15eigmaand post the output
18:59:51Rincewindexport VERSION=$(shell $(ROOTDIR)/tools/ $(ROOTDIR))
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18:59:57preglowanyone else have problems with mencoder and mpegplayer?
19:00:08eigmaRincewind: good; now, from sim, "../tools/ .." and post the output
19:00:17*GodEater_ points upward to where he mentioned earlier
19:01:31eigmanah, we all have a copy of that file
19:01:33GodEater_Rincewind: we didn't ask you to cat it
19:01:35eigmaI need you to run it
19:02:07Rincewindahh ok
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19:02:27Rincewindrexportiert -070910
19:02:38Rincewindok, there we have something
19:02:46eigmanow, we need to debug
19:02:46GodEater_where the hell is that rexportiert coming from
19:02:56eigmago into your docs directory
19:03:00eigmais there a file called VERSION
19:03:01Rincewindmaybe a german localisation?
19:03:06preglowlinuxstb_: and any seeking progress in mpegplayer?
19:03:28markunpreglow: I was watching a movie (created with mencoder) yesterday and got a "packet error" or something like that
19:03:33amiconnAnd exportiert == exported
19:03:37GodEater_-070910 <−− what I get
19:03:43Rincewindeigma: no VERSION in docs
19:04:09eigmaRincewind: okay, now go to your rockbox root, and run "svnversion .; svnversion tools" and post
19:04:11GodEater_svnversion just returns a string "exported" when you run it on your own
19:04:15amiconnBut I wonder why that version string confuses gcc
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19:04:23amiconnIt's a literal string after all...
19:04:25eigmaamiconn: space isn't propertly quited
19:04:28GodEater_amiconn: the space in it I guess
19:04:51amiconneigma: The whole stirng is quoted, isn't it?
19:05:14amiconn-DAPPSVERSION=\"rexportiert -070910\"
19:05:19eigmait's escape-quoted so that it ends up quoted to the preprocessor. but on the shell command-line, spaces are free to split into two arguments
19:05:40eigmaproper quoting would be −−> "-DAPPS...."
19:05:47RincewindI think I know the problem now. Normally it uses the svn revision, but when that isn't availiable it uses some output that says "exported xx" and my german string doesn't match this
19:05:51amiconnBah, *nix shells are strange beats...
19:06:03amiconnBeasts even
19:06:12eigmaRincewind: what is the output of svnversion on those two directories?
19:06:46Rincewindeigma: svnversion gives "exportiert"
19:06:46GodEater_Rincewind: indeed, it's not matching the string in
19:07:07Rincewindok, so I have to make my own
19:07:08eigmaRincewind: what if you run: "LANG=C svnversion"
19:07:20GodEater_we need to i18n our tools directory ;)
19:07:22eigmano, heh, that won't solve the problem for Swedish, French, Russian, etc, etc
19:07:40Rincewindeigma with LANG=C I get exported
19:07:48eigmaexcellent, so that's the solution
19:07:55GodEater_LANG=C configure ?
19:07:56eigmareplace "svnversion" with "LANG=C svnversion"
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19:08:06eigmabecause this problem will just keep happening on people's systems
19:08:15eigmasvnversion needs to get patched with LANG=C in at least two place
19:08:20eigma*places, that I can see
19:08:28GodEater_ah - well someone with commit access should do that then
19:08:40*GodEater_ prods amiconn
19:08:46eigmaamiconn: can I send you a patch?
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19:10:26GodEater_eigma: put one in flyspray if he's gone all quiet
19:10:31*amiconn isn't sure he understands the problem
19:10:52eigmasvnversion outputs localized strings for "exported". svnversion compares against the English localization. checks explicitly for "exported" as a return string from svnversion
19:11:21eigmaRincewind: what is the output of LANG=C ./
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19:12:25*amiconn thinks it's strange that linux has localised output from command line tools
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19:13:19n1swhen I tried the latest snapshot of gcc 4.3 I got all output in swedish all of a sudden, very confusing IMO
19:13:20Rincewindsvn: '/tools' does not exist
19:14:01eigmawhat about "LANG=C ./ .."
19:14:05Rincewindamiconn: I don't like this either, because most of the time the localisations are not very good
19:14:32amiconnI find it strange, as I don't expect it for commandline. A gui should of course be localised
19:14:50Rincewindeigma: -070910
19:14:57GodEater_that works then
19:15:04n1sanyone objects to me moving ipf specific code from pcm_playback.c to a new file firmware/target/arm/pnx0101/iriver-ifp7xx/pcm-ifp7xx.c ?
19:15:18eigman1s: I almost have a patch for that
19:15:30Rincewindok, so we only have to decide where to put the LANG=C, right?
19:15:48amiconnI'd prepend it to the 2 svnversion calls in
19:15:51eigmaRincewind: well, I don't like "-070910" as an output from
19:15:53n1seigma: oh, how finished is it and will you submit it soon?
19:16:36eigman1s: builds all hardware arm targets, haven't tried sims. I don't have a device, so I can't test that. I also don't have commit so I'll just have to put it in flyspray.
19:16:43 Quit The-Compiler (Client Quit)
19:16:56eigmaRincewind: doesn't give any information about your revision
19:16:57amiconnIiuc is supposed to output unknown-YYMMDD if it doesn't find the revision
19:17:04eigmaamiconn: exactly
19:17:24n1seigma: if you put it on flyspray I can commit it if no one obejcts
19:17:35Rincewindthis is the string that should come out of it: "r14662-070910"
19:17:39eigman1s: give me a day or so
19:17:56Rincewindunknown-date looks ok, too
19:18:16eigmaRincewind: once again, from your root rockbox directory, what is the output of "svnversion .; svnversion tools"
19:18:18amiconnRincewind: Not if you run it on a source tree that is not an svn working copy
19:18:32amiconnAren't there quotes missing in line 22?
19:18:43eigmadoesn't make a difference because there are no spaces
19:19:10eigmait's just a command line, and the first quotes are removed before passing to the "[" command anyway
19:19:18amiconnOkay, but it's odd to use quotes in line 18 and no quotes in line 22 imho
19:19:31eigmaI'm just saying it's functionally correct
19:19:35eigmabut i agree that it's bad style
19:19:39Rincewindeigma: the output is "exportiert" (without quotes)
19:19:44eigmaRincewind: for both?
19:19:49Rincewindfor both, yes
19:20:24eigmathen the output of an unmodified, without LANG=C, should be rexportiert-YYMMDD
19:20:34eigmaRincewind: can you confirm this/
19:20:55amiconnOn my linux box, 'svnversion' outputs 'exportiert' but 'LANG=C svnversion' outputs 'exported'
19:21:05Rincewindrexportiert -070910
19:21:22Rincewindthere is a space between rexportiert and -
19:21:44amiconnThere is a space at the end of the localised string: 'exportiert '
19:22:07eigmawell, that's silly
19:22:18amiconnYes it is, but it's also a fact...
19:22:38amiconnSo the LANG=C will fix the problem
19:23:01preglowwho did the eq presets, again?
19:23:08eigmaI would agree; prepend LANG=C before svnversion. I would also add a comment stating why it's necessary. I can make the patch, but it's pretty easy
19:23:23eigmapreglow: someone with an English-localized machine ;)
19:23:56preglowi think it's really weird all the lowshelf filtesr have a 60 hz cutoff, the effect on the bass is almost non-existant
19:24:06eigmaoh, lol
19:24:10eigmamy bad
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19:26:20RincewindI just made the fix locally and I am doing a compile now. No errors sofar
19:27:34amiconneigma: line 27 should set SVNVER not SVNALT iiuc...
19:27:56eigmaamiconn: yes
19:27:57amiconn(but the 'unknown' thing still doesn't work with that fix...)
19:28:22eigmacould you be more explicit?
19:28:42amiconnI get 'r-070910' if I run the script on an arbitrary dir
19:28:48Rincewindamiconn: I think so too, SVNVER is the output
19:28:55amiconnAh, and I know why...
19:29:09eigmausing $1 instead of $TOP?
19:29:40amiconnIf the second 'svnver' call _fails_, the output is not "exported" so line 25 sets SVNVER, not line 27 ...
19:30:02amiconnAnd if there's not 'tools' sub-dir, it does of course fail...
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19:34:06Rincewindwith the LANG=C fix my rockbox-info.txt has this line "Version: -070910"
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19:34:35eigmayeah, because svnversion is broken for two exported's
19:37:20Rincewindthank you all for debugging this for me!
19:39:57GodEater_amiconn: Will viewports allow WPS creators to use different fonts ?
19:40:10GodEater_or is that still going to be a strict no-no ?
19:40:15eigmaRincewind: get this svnversion:
19:40:37amiconnGodEater: That would have nothing to do with viewports. And imo it's a no-no
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19:41:03GodEater_amiconn: thought as much
19:42:06coma-Hi! I'm trying to install Rockbox on my Sansa e250, and I've tried both MSC and MTP USB modes, and even Recovery Mode, but the sansapatcher (Windows, running Vista 64) never detects it.
19:43:19Rincewindeigma: thanks. I got my version of the script running and I think I just wait for it to appear in svn
19:43:41Rincewindeigma: but if you want I can test it for you
19:44:47Rincewindrince@ankh-morpork:/tmp$ ./
19:44:47Rincewindsvn: '../tools' does not exist
19:44:50advcomp2019coma-, do you have a rhapsody edition or plain
19:45:06coma-plain, and the American version I think because I have FM radio
19:45:21eigmaRincewind: and in your source/simbuild/tools directories?
19:45:35eigmaRincewind: also, try running it from your source, but with "/" as the first argument
19:45:52RincewindI thougt I take the easy way first ^^
19:46:06coma-advcomp: what is UMS mode? Is it the same as MSC?
19:46:19advcomp2019yes it is
19:47:01coma-is there any way i could manually install it? :x
19:47:49eigmaamiconn: could you also test that script, make sure it works correctly in all situations?
19:48:09amiconnIt doesn't
19:48:19eigmawhat's the corner case this time?
19:48:33amiconnIt will also output 'r-YYMMDD' if the command fails
19:48:41Rincewindrince@ankh-morpork:~/rockbox/simbuild$ ../tools/ .
19:48:41Rincewindsvn: 'tools' does not exist
19:48:41DBUGEnqueued KICK Rincewind
19:48:41Rincewindrince@ankh-morpork:~/rockbox/simbuild$ ../tools/ /
19:48:41Rincewindsvn: '/tools' does not exist
19:48:42***Alert Mode level 1
19:49:18advcomp2019coma-, i am not sure
19:49:26eigmaamiconn: show me
19:50:17CtcpIgnored 1 channel CTCP requests in 0 seconds at the last flood
19:50:17*amiconn is completely confused now and will refrain from committing changes to that script
19:50:22eigmalooks good when svnversion doesn't exist: PATH="/bin" ./
19:50:34eigma./ 38: svnversion: not found / unknown-070910
19:51:21eigmathe tab style is 4 spaces?
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19:54:49Rincewindeigma: yes
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19:57:18eigma*sigh* I was supposed to get textbooks today, and look what I'm doing
19:58:43***Alert Mode OFF
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20:03:32userekis there any chance for ipod shuffle 2g support? :)
20:03:37 Quit pondlife ("disconnected has pondlife")
20:03:45preglowmy, those chances are small
20:03:59 Quit Wiwie (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:04:00userekunlike 1g it has some arm procesor so there is a compiller for it
20:05:20preglowwell, if the core is anything like on the nano2g, we have no idea how it works
20:05:34preglowand if the encryption is anything like on the nano2g, we can't stuff code on it anyway
20:06:08userekwell, probably there is some encryption
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20:06:34Rincewindamiconn: I think eigma's fix at #7748 can be commited. I tested it with a svn tree (where it correctly outputs the revision) and my git tree (where it prints unknown)
20:06:59userekdamn, my dreams about the better firmware for shuffle are gone :P
20:08:39*bluebrother wonders why a function is needed for that fix
20:09:02preglowuserek: not gone, just, really, really remote
20:10:01bluebrotherhmm, since-4weeks.html isn't linked anymore :/
20:10:02 Join Domonoky [0] (
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20:11:44Rincewindbluebrother, I miss since-4weeks, too
20:11:58bluebrotherwell, I notices the page itself is still around.
20:12:15bluebrotherbut the new front page looks really ugly on my not-so-wide monitor
20:12:18Rincewindthe commit messages on the front page would be nice, too
20:12:45bluebrotherwhy not put everything to a "News" page and just leave the svn log on the front page?
20:15:21coma-I'm looking for RbutilQt, and I've googled a little but can't seem to find it. Any ideas? Or well, I did find one, but I don't know if it's the latest version.
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20:15:37bluebrother :)
20:16:09coma-Thanks :)
20:16:30bluebrotherbtw, it's linked from the Docs Index wiki page ;-)
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20:20:25coma->< well, didn't search anywhere
20:20:27 Join The-Compiler [0] (
20:20:42coma-but both rbutilqt and sansapatcher can't detect my e250 ;_;
20:21:33bluebrotherwell rbutil uses sansapatcher, so if one doesn't detect the player the other one most likely won't too.
20:21:40coma-bleh ;_;
20:21:48bluebrotherhave you checked to have the correct permissions for raw disc access?
20:22:28coma-well, i'm on vista and logged on as admin, and i used the sansa firmware updater earlier today, so it should be ok
20:22:38Domonokyand that the sansa is in msc mode.. (you can see it as a drive letter)
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20:23:08bluebrothermaybe it's a vista issue? I don't think sansapatcher was tested on vista ...
20:23:23preglowpeople use vista???
20:23:23coma-ill just go try it on my dad's laptop
20:23:34coma-it's not even close to being as bad as people say
20:23:45bluebrotherand if it's a vista issue, maybe you could help fixing it? ;-)
20:23:47coma-this is the only thing that didn't work in nearly 3 months
20:24:00coma-me? o_o how?
20:24:05bluebrotherwindows is bad anyway :P
20:24:24coma-yeah, but linux is a bit of a headache for me =p
20:24:32advcomp2019that is why i keep xp
20:24:39bluebrothercan't be. Windows is the real headache ;-)
20:24:41advcomp2019and linux
20:24:56 Quit spiorf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
20:25:21coma-all the linux distros i tried give me a black screen with the nvidia 8800gts
20:25:36coma-except when you run them in safe graphics mode, but after install they still give a black screen =\
20:25:46amiconnI think that sansapatcher stumbles upon uac
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20:28:19linuxstbamiconn: uac?
20:28:28eigmabluebrother: well, because the function gets called twice.. so it avoids code duplication
20:28:42amiconnlinuxstb: user account control, a vista safety feature
20:29:12linuxstbAh yes, I seem to remember a forum post about that for either sansapatcher or ipodpatcher.
20:29:54Rincewindbtw: i tried to update the bootloader for the sansa e280 of my brother and rbutilqt failed (on windows2000)
20:30:13bluebrotherany error message?
20:30:30RincewindI don't remember and I am not at home at the moment
20:31:08Rincewinda rockbox update did work
20:31:55RincewindI have to shut down now, my battery is empty
20:32:01 Quit Rincewind ("Verlassend")
20:32:05bluebrotherwell, I previously had the impression that something is fishy regarding sansapatcher. Unfortunately I have no possiblitly for testing.
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20:37:33thegeekthe new front page layout is horrible
20:38:47BigMac_I agreee too kind of
20:39:20bluebrotheryeps. It's too wide and leaves out interesting information (svn commit messages)
20:39:24coma-well.. i went and tried sansapatcher on my dad's XP laptop, and it didn't work there either
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20:44:02linuxstbcoma-: Are you logged in as Adminstator (or a user with admin rights)?
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20:46:27amiconnlinuxstb: Even as admin, uac will prevent sansapatcher from working
20:46:45amiconn(on vista of course)
20:47:22tumusansapatcher doesn't have enough spyware in it to work on vista :)
20:47:23linuxstbThat sounds a bit severe...
20:48:22amiconnWell, the main problem regarding security on XP wasn't that XP is insecure by design, but its default configuration is insecure,
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20:48:58coma-linuxstb: yup
20:49:08coma-and disabling uac is the first thing i did after installing vista
20:49:12coma-so freaking annoying
20:49:32low_lightgot a question...the c200 bootloader loads the firmware to 0x14000000, but that's not in dram?
20:49:38coma-and like i said, it doesn't work on my dad's XP laptop, also running as admin
20:49:39amiconnbecause all users created during setup have administrative rights, meaning that users with little knowledge usually work with admin rightds all the time
20:49:51coma-not really
20:50:03coma-most people work with admin on XP because many everyday things require you to have admin
20:50:12coma-like installing some games
20:50:18linuxstbcoma:-: 1) It's definitely an E250, not E250R? 2) It's in UMS mode, and it appears as a drive letter?
20:50:23amiconninstalling != daily work
20:50:29coma-it is
20:50:37amiconnSo microsoft invented uac, meaning that even programs started by admins don't get admin rights without explicitly requesting them
20:51:02amiconnAnd even if you need to install something, there is "Run as...". Works with most setups
20:51:03 Quit funky ("leaving")
20:51:04coma-well, they copied the idea off linux to add security, but it's hugely annoying
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20:51:36coma-but run as didn't exist in XP, and i run as admin just so i don't have to deal with all that
20:51:41 Quit nekura42 ("Download Gaim:")
20:51:42amiconnIt did
20:51:54amiconnI am using it very often
20:51:56coma-can't be bothered, and i don't really click links
20:51:58bluebrotherrunas even existed in w2k
20:51:59coma-it did?
20:52:09coma-well, my bad then
20:52:12bluebrotherthough you needed to call it manually iirc.
20:52:22coma-still, sansapatcher doesn't work =[
20:52:37coma-it'd be great if i could download the bootloader rom somewhere
20:52:56coma-if you drop it in the sansa hidden partition (that you can get to show when you run it in recovery mode), it restarts and installs it by itself
20:53:51coma-lets try
20:53:53linuxstbIf you do that, make sure you have a copy of the original firmware mi4 as well - rename it to OF.mi4 and put it in the /System folder.
20:54:13linuxstbOtherwise dual-boot won't work and you'll lose USB functionality...
20:54:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
20:54:35coma-it comes as an exe though =\
20:54:39coma-time to find the temp dir
20:55:08coma-or not =p
20:55:13coma-it just copies it to the hidden partition
20:55:18*linuxstb feels like google
20:55:37coma-yeah i know that page, but it has a more up to date version that seems slower than the one i have o_o
20:56:02coma-but the PP5022.mi4 of the original one doesn't seem to be just the bootloader, but the firmware as well
20:56:05coma-it's 5mb big
20:56:15coma-it also created another file called BL_SD_boardSupportSD.rom
20:56:40linuxstbYes, the mi4 is the firmwre, BL_ is the bootloader
20:56:40 Quit low_light ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
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20:57:51coma-hm, /System as in the one in the MSC mode drive?
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20:59:49coma-rockbox loaded
21:00:34coma-said Bad checksum when it tried to load /System/OF.mi4
21:00:40coma-is there any specific version i should have?
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21:05:10coma-linuxstb? ;_;
21:07:30advcomp2019coma-, what version of the sansa firmware did you install
21:07:55coma-i had the base one, 01.00.12
21:08:48coma-ill try using the one from
21:09:28bluebrotherDomonoky: do you know how to figure the PID / VIDs of usb devices on windows?
21:10:16bluebrotherI was googling around quite a bit the other day but either wasn't successful or didn't got it working
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21:10:46coma-the daniel one works :x
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21:21:44Domonokybluebrother: no that seems to be difficult, especially the mapping of Pid&vids to drives..
21:22:43Domonokybluebrother: a possible (and crossplattform ) way would be to use libusb i think... but then we have a added depency..
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21:24:24linuxstblibusb hasn't proven straightforward so far on Windows...
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21:31:16bluebrotherDomonoky: the problem with libusb is that it requires a driver on windows ... and I'd like to be able detecting the player type without any additional installs at least.
21:37:08preglowthen do some windows specific code as well
21:37:11preglowthat doesn't need libusb
21:37:14 Quit The-Compiler (Remote closed the connection)
21:37:47bluebrotherthat way my idea −− I just such with windows and didn't manage to get it working ;-)
21:37:58bluebrothermaybe it's also related to the fact that I'm using mingw.
21:40:10preglowmingw should work nice
21:40:49bluebrotherseems I need to investigate harder. Just hoped someone is more used to that stuff than I am
21:41:11preglowi've used mingw for tons of windows stuff, but never anything usb
21:44:08n1samiconn: is loading a short from memory much slower than loading a long for coldfire or arm?
21:45:29preglowdepends on alignment
21:45:31tictocarm's are risc processors, right?
21:45:36preglowtictoc: yes
21:45:55preglowloading an unaligned short is slower on coldfire, and perhaps even one cycles slower anyway (can't remember the last)
21:46:01preglowon arm, it's not slower, afaik
21:46:17preglowand now that i think about it, it being slower on coldfire for aligned access makes no sense...
21:46:17amiconnLoading a short is never slower than loading a long. However, loading 2 shorts instead of one long is always slower
21:46:45n1spreglow: I was looking at some of the const iram tables in tremor and some of those don't need to be longs which could save a bit of iram which will be usefull if we want to use gcc 4.x sometime
21:46:47coma-i tried to load pacbox and it seems the rom is missing? it says No ROMs in /.rockbox/pacman/
21:46:59coma-do i have to download it like Doom?
21:47:16n1swell, I guess I'll have to do a bit of trial & error benchamarking then :-)
21:47:49preglown1s: useful anyway, if you ask me
21:47:53n1scoma-: yep, you need to dump the roms from your pacman arcade machine
21:47:56DefineBytedo you have a load of rockbox links in a script? :D
21:48:04amiconnn1s: Hmm, in that case the sign extension will be an extra cost.
21:48:15linuxstb_DefineByte: I'm a bot.
21:48:15coma-thanks again :p
21:48:35preglowamiconn: right, our coldfire has no sign-extending load, does it
21:48:40preglowthat's a v4 feature, i think
21:48:54amiconncoldfire doesn't extend at all on load
21:49:11n1samiconn: will it sign extend for unsigned too?
21:49:15preglowthere's an mvs instruction, i think, but we don't have it
21:49:28amiconnn1s: Unsigned needs to be zero extended
21:49:38DefineByteif you're a bot you must be pretty smart. i didn't mention your name but you knew it was a q for you. x)
21:49:40amiconnarm zero extends by default iirc
21:49:59amiconnSH1 (not relevant regarding Tremor) always sign-extends
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21:51:52webguest52Hola gang. Any one know if Rockbox works as is on the new 160GB iPod "Classic?" I don't have one yet, or I'd just try it myself.
21:52:26Bagderit doesn't
21:52:40preglowany photos of it nude yet?
21:53:00DefineBytedo the head-fi ones count?
21:53:26Bagdernot very hires, but still
21:53:34DefineByteare you allowed to post that kind of porn here?
21:53:51preglowBagder: seen any chip id attempts?
21:54:27Bagdernope, but its fun to compare with this pic =>
21:54:31Bagder2nd gen nano
21:54:36n1smeh, this will not be possible to benchmark as those tables are only used for floor0 and afaik our codec can't handle those files...
21:54:49preglown1s: it does, i think
21:54:51preglowbut not optimally
21:55:20n1spreglow: any idea where I can find such a file then?
21:55:40preglowbut i wouldn't waste any iram on floor0 files
21:55:42preglowthey are very rare
21:56:01webguest52Thanks for the info. I'll keep an eye on the projects if/when I get my 160.
21:56:54maxkelleyanyone have the c200 working who noticed lack of volume?
21:57:00linuxstbBagder: Did you see my comments re. para 9 of the GPL?
21:57:10n1spreglow: I know, but we waste plenty of iram on those although I don't know if we can use it for something better, with gcc3.4 most of the important code fits in iram with -O3
21:57:26Bagderlinuxstb: yes, but I haven't read it through not given it the proper thought yet
21:57:56MikeTkif I want to use the audio buffer in my plugin can I just call plugin_get_audio_buffer() and use the returned addrress, or is there more I have to do?
21:58:08eigmahow the heck is ARM a RISC processor? it's got one of the most complex instruction sets I've seen
21:58:12 Quit Genre9mp3 ()
21:59:03linuxstbMikeTk: I think that should be enough. That function should take care of everything else (i.e. stopping audio playback).
21:59:05Bagdereigma: you checked POWER?
21:59:23BagderRISC these days aren't much "reduced" instruction sets
21:59:38eigmayou mean power consumption?
21:59:42maxkelleyor, is there a reason why there should be clicks when the volume gets turned up above 0ish, but is barely audible, when the sansa fw can do much higher volume.
21:59:45Bagderpower as the father of powerpc
22:00:16eigmadoes that also have a very complex instruction set?
22:00:23Bagderanother risc cpu with a very large set of instructions
22:00:28Bagderquite complex, yes
22:00:57Bagderafaik, MIPS is one of the original risc ones that truly has a small set
22:00:59eigmamy conception of RISC is the PIC's instruction set
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22:03:31pregloweigma: you mad? it's only got about 30 instructions or so
22:03:46pregloweigma: some of the instructions can do a lot, but the instruction set itself is still small
22:03:51eigmanot exactly "mad" - just confused; and we should probably take this in -community
22:04:01preglowmad is common too :P
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22:04:22preglowarm isn't as risc as sh, but i think that's a good thing
22:04:29 Join Rincewind [0] (
22:04:37preglowrisc isn't exactly all it was touted to be once
22:04:43Bagderindeed not
22:04:57Bagderrisc is now more a fixed instruction size and pipelines, or something like that
22:05:03preglowas with most other things in life, i think a balanced approach is best
22:05:12eigmaI like the ARM instruction set very much, actually; I just have a different definition of RISC than Wikipedia ;)
22:05:19greenlemonhey! i was wondering where i can get recent patched versions so i can use the different themes, evilg's uses a quite old build from may :\
22:05:24preglowarm is pretty decent
22:05:31preglowi prefer coldfire, but it's not bad at all
22:06:20eigmacould someone who can commit take another look at
22:06:36DefineBytegreenlemon: you might want to look into compiling your own.
22:06:47preglowi don't feel too qualified to commit that
22:07:10eigmapreglow: can you test it and add comments?
22:07:38preglowi'd rather prefer not to :> working on non-rockbox stuff right now
22:07:42greenlemoni once actually did compile but i've formatted my pc since and its a bit of a hassle to install everything again, i was just wondering if there is anything like ready made avaiable online or so
22:08:32DefineBytenot one that is updated that often
22:09:09greenlemonoh ok
22:09:37greenlemondo you know any launched after the 7th of august though?
22:10:10ChrononThe VMWare image is pre-configured. Not much hassle at all.
22:10:28DefineByteany builds will likely be in the forum
22:10:32greenlemonoh ok
22:10:34greenlemonthanks! :)
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22:16:08 Quit barrywardell ()
22:16:51Rincewindeigma: about the patch - maybe it is better not to rewrite the whole file. The function adds more lines of code and is called only twice anyway. People prefer KISS here.
22:18:10RincewindBut I don't know really, my own patches have a tendancy to sit on the tracker for ages without making it...
22:18:47preglowfunctions are kiss...
22:20:03n1sRincewind: the you either make patches that noone want's to commit or you don't nag us enough :-)
22:20:21maxkelleyFor anyone who care about the c200 port, I added patches to get plugins working at
22:20:32 Nick parafin is now known as parafin|away (
22:20:36maxkelleyMake sure to use the one I put in the first comment of the task instead of the actual task
22:21:38RincewindI suppose I nagged about the rec button patch enough... The best attribute about it might be 'controversial'
22:22:24maxkelleywhat's it about?
22:22:34n1sRincewind: that kind of change is very controversial here and no one likes to commit stuff like that unless there is at least some support from the rest of the devs
22:23:28Rincewindn1s: I know :(
22:23:36n1smaxkelley: how does your new patch relate to #7732 ?
22:24:00maxkelleyIt's a replacement.. how can I modify the previous one/delete it?
22:24:02 Quit coma- ()
22:24:07maxkelleyand an addition.
22:24:58 Quit GodEater (Connection timed out)
22:25:33Rincewindmaxkelly: there is no way to replace an attachment in a flyspray entry. You have to comment with your new versions
22:26:21maxkelleyah, ok. I moused over my name though, and it says "ability to edit own tasks −− yes"
22:26:23 Quit BigMac ("Konversation terminated!")
22:26:29eigmaRincewind: ask and ye shall receive - - can you please test the minimal patch?
22:27:10 Quit webguest52 ("CGI:IRC (EOF)")
22:27:21n1smaxkelley: I can close it if you'd like
22:27:26eigmabtw, I got a "Warning: mime_magic: invalid type 0 in mconvert()." message at the top of the page after uploading; is this known?
22:27:42Rincewindeigma: that's exactly the change I made myself
22:27:51maxkelleyn1s: that'd be nice.. the newer one replaces it entirely.
22:28:11maxkelleywell, more accurately, it includes it.
22:28:36n1smaxkelley: ok, closed
22:28:54Rincewindeigma: I don't know if the minimal version is liked better by the core devs. I just wouldn't like this patch to be forgotten because it changes too much and isn't commited because of this
22:29:12 Quit MikeTk ("-")
22:29:13eigmasure, I understand
22:29:17eigmathe options are there
22:29:38eigmashould I create a mediumly minimal patch? ;)
22:29:44Rincewindeigma: I can't test it right now, because I don't have git on this computer at the moment
22:30:21amiconnHmm, I checked again, and now I understand how that patch works
22:30:30amiconnI like the version using a function better
22:30:39*eigma cheers
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22:31:15amiconnFirst I overlooked that the command output is checked twice
22:32:02 Quit DefineByte ()
22:32:41Rincewindwhen this gets commited I get a chance to find out how git handles conflicts and reverting of files ^^
22:33:02eigmaRincewind: why do you use git as opposed to svn?
22:33:12 Join olle_ [0] (
22:33:23*bluebrother wonders why using git-svn hinders someone from using svn the same time
22:33:38 Quit olle_ (Client Quit)
22:33:52Rincewindeigma: First of all to try it out. The second reason is, that I want to try to use the same code base on my desktop pc and my laptop
22:33:53*amiconn can't see any advantage in using git
22:34:24*scorche hands amiconn some glasses
22:34:40Bagdergit has some upsides and some downsides, I'd say
22:34:43bluebrothergit has some advantages, especially when working offline. But I agree that there is no real advantage for the main rockbox repo
22:34:47Rincewindbluebrother: I don't know, maybe it is possible to use both in paralell.
22:34:55bluebrotherwell, I do.
22:35:15scorchethe only disadvantages i see are the work required to change to a new system, and devs being more familiar with SVN than git
22:35:23bluebrotherit's simply two different trees ... why should there be a problem in using both?
22:35:49bluebrotherno good git client for windows is another great disadvantage IMO
22:35:56Bagderscorche: the lack of a windows version may be considered a con to some...
22:36:06scorcheah...forgot about that as well
22:36:08eigmaum, is it possible to use the rockbox sim over network X11?
22:36:15Bagdereigma: yes
22:36:18eigmasorry, *goes to wiki*
22:36:21maxkelleyI don't see any reason why not..
22:36:39*bluebrother too slow
22:36:49eigmawell, it barfed some stuff about fbdev, and I figured it may only work with a real /dev/fb0
22:37:23amiconnCygwin provides git
22:37:37Bagderamiconn: yes, but today people can use tortoise for example
22:37:46Bagdernative windows, not cygwin
22:37:57amiconnI know.
22:38:03*amiconn doesn't like tortoise
22:38:05scorchei would not wish on anyone to be required to use cygwin...
22:38:06XavierGr_I hope more companies would choose the same path as AMD....
22:38:46scorcheXavierGr_: we have a channel for offtopic conversation now ;)
22:38:47eigmaXavierGr_: that's awesome
22:39:17maxkelleywow, that's pretty nice.
22:39:30XavierGr_scorche: I don't find it off-topic it has to do with PP that require ndas
22:39:51Rincewindbluebrother: I suppose I coud check out and update rockbox using svn and import this tree in git. Then I would have to commit every svn update in my git repository. The way I use git-svn now is easier to maintain for me, the only 'problem' is that I don't have svn revision numbers
22:39:52XavierGr_a major hindrance in rockbox develpment
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22:40:12scorcheXavierGr_: yes, but it is amd...not nvidia
22:40:30BagderI wonder what that new sansa has inside
22:40:36 Nick amiconn_ is now known as amiconn (n=jens@rockbox/developer/amiconn)
22:40:40scorcheas well, just a GPU and not embedded SoC
22:40:43bluebrotherRincewind: I don't see your point: git svn rebase simply does updating. And you can svn co to a different folder anyway
22:40:50bluebrotherthat's the way I'm working.
22:40:52maxkelleyI hate that manufacturers think that customers are too stupid to use a screwdriver, or at least don't provide for those that are able to.
22:41:02Bagderthat big screen and video support sounds like it needs some power for it
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22:41:31Rincewindbluebrother: I think I don't understand what you are saying
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22:43:22alienbiker99is there any reason why the H10 20gb freezes after everysong?
22:43:26scorcheBagder: what are your thoughts on this issue with dual-booting for the Rs?...the part i dont get about the whole thing, is that i dual-boot just fine
22:43:57BagderI would say it seems like there's a problem there for some people...
22:44:16Bagdertracking that down might require some fun poking and disassembly or similar
22:44:39scorcheyes, but wouldnt one think that i would have a problem as well? seems like i am the only one who has no issues with it
22:44:47maxkelleyscorche: did you build your own rockbox? if so, does your rockbox build allow dual-booting on other R's?
22:45:10scorchemaxkelley: i performed the installation, and then write that tutorial of what i did for everyone else to use
22:46:01Bagderwell, perhaps there's something of a coincidence or whatever. Clearly people have problems... and when they have rockbox running and they can select the OF, I can't see how they could have messed up in very many wats
22:46:29scorchei cant just seems very odd that i am the only one who can dual boot
22:46:47maxkelleyoh, and my C200 can't boot the OF :) The sansa firmware.mi4 goes in SYSTEM/OF.mi4, right?
22:46:48BagderI agree
22:47:04RincewindBagder: do you mind if I submit your blog post to
22:47:12Bagderfeel free
22:47:17maxkelleyI'll vote it up.
22:47:30maxkelleyRincewind: gimme a link when you're done.
22:48:05eigmaRincewind: same, please
22:48:08scorcheBagder: it is almost making me want to go and get another R to see if i can dual boot on that one...
22:48:53maxkelleyscorche: make an image or something of your E200R, send it to someone else with one, see if it works.
22:49:18scorchemaxkelley: i cant really, as part of the installation process involves an area i cant access
22:50:23scorchewell, i can still host my OF.mi4 and such and have them load it...
22:50:42maxkelleyperhaps you have an e200 disguised as an R :p
22:50:48scorchei dont
22:51:01 Part Redbreva
22:51:24Bagderthat's quite a difference that is easy to see
22:51:32maxkelleyI was joking :)
22:51:40Bagderthey actually exist
22:52:02scorcheyup, but mine isnt one of those
22:52:06Bagderor rather e200 models that have some signs of R on them
22:52:14maxkelleytry giving your OF.mi4 to someone else. or your rockbox bootloader, or something.
22:52:57scorcheBagder: would an improper OF.mi4 produce these results?
22:53:14Bagderhardly, then it wouldn't start at all
22:53:17 Quit petur ("SWITCHING")
22:53:22preglowBagder: the top urls don't work in opera
22:53:24preglowfancy :>
22:53:25 Join petur [0] (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
22:53:51 Quit Frazz (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
22:53:53scorcheBagder: i mean the results the users are experiencing
22:53:54Bagderwhat top urls?
22:53:59 Join Nico_P [0] (n=nicolas@rockbox/developer/NicoP)
22:54:08preglowBagder: prev/next article
22:54:19Bagderscorche: I meant that too. Their OF start as I've understood them, but then just doesn't work right
22:54:24preglowor whatever they are, they point to other posts, heh
22:54:27***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
22:54:34BagderI blame opera
22:54:55scorcheBagder: from what it sounds like, the rockbox bootloader executes them, but then the screen fades to white, then just fades more
22:55:06preglowBagder: works in 9.5
22:55:36scorcheas a note, mine fades to white as well, but only for a second and then it goes to the OF
22:55:40Bagderscorche: you mean they never see any signs of the OF working? If so, it sounds like bad mi4s or similar
22:56:04scorcheBagder: that is what it sounds like
22:56:13maxkelleyscorche: compare your sansa OF version with someone else who's experiencing the problem, and get them to try with your firmware version.
22:56:14Bagdermaybe I should learn to read the small print...
22:56:35scorchemaxkelley: that is what i am doing now (hosting my OF.mi4)
22:56:38eigmashoot, how do I change ticket properties (Category) after it's been created?
22:56:51maxkelleyah, ok.
22:57:09 Join qweru [0] (
22:58:20 Quit RudMan (" HydraIRC -> <- IRC with a difference")
23:00:11 Quit jhulst (Remote closed the connection)
23:04:06petureigma: changed to patch, anything more?
23:04:56 Part Domonoky
23:05:35peturdone... maybe also commit? ;)
23:05:40eigmaplease? :)
23:06:45 Join Dwyloc [0] (i=53688643@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:07:27 Join saratoga [0] (i=98039a9c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:10:34petureigma: your tracker name is your real name I assume?
23:10:54eigmaI think I should have made my nickname eigma and my realname what it is right now.. oh well
23:11:13peturcan I ask where you are from?
23:11:21eigmaoriginally, Romania
23:11:34DwylocWhat’s up with the new rockbox web site front page? It seems to have removed the lost useful information, the description of what’s changes committed to SVN do :(
23:13:02DwylocPlus I can no longer find a link to the full change log if I wish to search through last weeks changes.
23:13:32scorchethey are still there...just not linked to
23:13:52preglowDwyloc: click the "subversion" link
23:14:04DwylocThis makes testing the couse of bug harder then reporting bugs.
23:14:06preglowthere you see the commit messages
23:15:03Dwylocpreglow: I have tried that it only shows the days changes
23:15:54preglowyeah, the other urls aren't there anymore
23:16:30preglowi guess they should be
23:16:58DwylocWould it not be more usefull to show the description of the change and who made the change on the front page than which files have changed?
23:17:47dionoeaI think that it would.
23:18:02DwylocAt lest from a users point of view, but I like the other info added to the front page. :)
23:18:06dionoeaYou could even leave the who part out (although that doesn't take a lot of space)
23:18:55eigmaaww, how cute, I'm in CREDITS now
23:18:56DwylocI quite like seeing the people doing the work credited on the front page though.
23:20:34DwylocAny way I just thought I would offer some feedback on the changes.
23:20:37 Join funky [0] (n=repulse@unaffiliated/funky)
23:22:07 Quit seablue ("life, death, life, death")
23:22:53eigman1s: can you please review ?
23:23:12 Quit thegeek (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
23:29:56n1seigma: I'll take a look at it tomorrow if no one beats me to it, too late now :-)
23:30:09 Join Febs [0] (n=chatzill@
23:30:16eigmaall right
23:31:45 Join jhulst [0] (
23:32:37[aB]DaRkNeSSanyone here use craigslist
23:32:59eigmain general?
23:33:08*Febs does, but can't imagine what this question has to do with Rockbox.
23:33:21[aB]DaRkNeSSwell i want to see my ipod that i put rockbox on
23:33:23[aB]DaRkNeSSon craigslist
23:33:27[aB]DaRkNeSSto make money off a free project
23:33:51[aB]DaRkNeSSno im trying to sell something but whenever i do a search it doesnt come up
23:34:00[aB]DaRkNeSSor if i go to sporting goods
23:34:03[aB]DaRkNeSSit isnt in the list either
23:34:05scorchethis isnt #craigslist...this is #rockbox
23:34:10scorchewe have gone through this before
23:34:14[aB]DaRkNeSShere we go again scorche
23:34:15eigmaI don't even understand the question
23:34:25[aB]DaRkNeSShow do i add tags to a cl item
23:34:34[aB]DaRkNeSSdo you not know what mirc is for scorche
23:34:35scorche[aB]DaRkNeSS: here we go again because you refuse to follow the guidelines
23:34:38[aB]DaRkNeSSits for talking
23:34:51scorchedo you not know what guidelines are for?
23:34:51[aB]DaRkNeSSffs so you cant talk about anything other than rockbox in here?
23:35:04[aB]DaRkNeSSwhat a fucking joke.
23:35:13[aB]DaRkNeSSno wonder no one knows about rockbox
23:35:13scorche[aB]DaRkNeSS: there are tens of thousands of other channels
23:35:18[aB]DaRkNeSSthe people who make it are cuntbags like you scorche
23:35:20[aB]DaRkNeSSyou piece of shit
23:35:23[aB]DaRkNeSSfucking little nerd bastard
23:35:24[aB]DaRkNeSSfuck off
23:35:31FebsDo you feel better now?
23:35:33n1s* sigh
23:35:33[aB]DaRkNeSSGG dumb fuck.
23:35:35 Part [aB]DaRkNeSS
23:35:40Mode"#rockbox +o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
23:36:01Mode"#rockbox +b *!* " by scorche (i=Blah@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
23:36:09Mode"#rockbox -o scorche " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
23:36:09eigmaI wonder what "[aB]" stands for
23:37:29 Join MBaller20 [0] (i=4a469c81@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:37:49MBaller20any updates on the auto-installer
23:38:03bluebrotherwhat auto-installer?
23:38:23MBaller20sorry, for rockbox on e200r
23:38:37bluebrotherthere is Rockbox Utility but it requires you to do some steps
23:38:48bluebrotherand that's a completely different thing
23:38:52MBaller20do you need linux?
23:39:01scorchecurrently, yes
23:39:26MBaller20I only i didn't have this very old computer
23:39:39alienbiker99hm, im suprised how few wps's there are for the e200 compared to other targets
23:40:14krazykitif i can make icons that don't suck, i'd make a WPS
23:40:17MBaller20i wish i knew about e200r and e200 before i bought the e 200r
23:40:28n1salienbiker99: it has a different aspec ratio which makes adapting wps'es from other targets harder and require more re-design
23:40:30krazykitso far, i've only made an inverted iCatcher which i rather like
23:40:37webmindnot sure this is part of rockbox, but on my ipod nano I get to see a battery icon only
23:40:47n1salso it's one of the newes targets to be supported
23:40:47webminddoes this mean it's in charge only mode ?
23:41:22alienbiker99yeah, later on if i have time i might try to port one from another target, i dont know how it will go though, but it will be a learning experience
23:41:46krazykitthe other thing is, it'd be nice if people provided their source images (especially if they're svg)
23:41:57 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
23:42:09*alienbiker99 is thinking about buying an 8gb sansa, switching the boards with my 2gb and returning it to the store =\
23:42:11n1sI rather like the portrait aspect for a dap, much easier to have much info in the wps IMO
23:42:40MBaller20i read someone's post that said he already had the installer but wasn't sure if it should be released yet
23:42:40n1salienbiker99: that would be something like fraud, i'd guess :-/
23:43:01MBaller20must be one of the developers
23:43:55 Join atsea- [0] (i=atsea-@gateway/tor/x-9ef277cc63bb86e1)
23:45:03 Quit MBaller20 ("CGI:IRC")
23:45:14 Join MBaller20 [0] (i=4a469c81@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
23:45:48MBaller20I can't wait until this release :)
23:46:34scorchehe wasnt a developer, and it isnt quite ready yet
23:47:11scorchethe developer who is working on that is JdGordon
23:47:40MBaller20the person i read it from was chrisjs169 or something like that
23:48:00scorchehe was just testing something
23:48:25scorchethat JdGordon made...but as i said, it isnt quite ready and still would require linux at this point
23:48:37MBaller20thought so
23:49:17n1seigma: is the increase of the size of the mem_conf[] array in system-pnx0101.c supposed to be included in the patch in FS #7751 ?
23:49:47eigman1s: I guess not ^_^
23:50:07eigmaI was too lazy to create a new patch, tracker, description, etc, etc
23:50:16n1seigma: ok, it looks good, I'll commit it tomorrow :-)
23:50:38eigmait's tested on all ARM archs on
23:50:44eigmahaven't tested the sims yet, working on that
23:50:46MBaller20i guess it's almost impossible to get over this linux only option
23:50:47n1seigma: you know you can post updated patches as attachments in comments to a task in the tracker, right?
23:50:57eigman1s: yep
23:51:15n1swell, goddnight
23:51:19 Part n1s
23:51:36MBaller20what time is it there
23:51:38scorcheMBaller20: it isnt impossible, but it requires a bit of work to get it working with windows
23:51:54scorchepeople from all around the world are in here
23:52:19MBaller20it's 5:53PM in Albany, U.S. right now
23:52:40MBaller20i just got back from football
23:52:55scorchetry to keep the discussion on-topic please ;)
23:53:03MBaller20haha, my bad
23:54:12MBaller20now would i have to make the livecd or can i just run linux without it
23:54:57krazykityou have to actually burn the CD. make sure to burn from ISO / from disc image, rather than simply dragging the iso to a data project
23:55:34MBaller20how would i do that
23:55:57MBaller20i don;t see the differnce
23:56:42*ender` yawns

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