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#rockbox log for 2007-10-03

00:02:31jhMikeSyou could try it
00:02:51jhMikeSmight keep the code in the cache at all times
00:04:24jhMikeSthough since it's separate dcache and icache it's probably not a big issue
00:04:32 Quit davina ("xchat on Ubuntu 7.04")
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00:10:25*jhMikeS wonders if he's just talking out his a** about everything and is just clueless
00:12:28markunwell, I'm still experimenting a bit, I'll let you know the results
00:12:57markunno idea what I just did, but now it's even slower
00:13:18*jhMikeS sits upside down
00:14:00markunhm no, back to 614
00:14:11 Join SkinInd95 [0] (
00:14:54markunthe codec doesn't stay in memory, does it?
00:15:13jhMikeStill when?
00:15:37markunwhen I replace vorbis.codec and run test_codec again
00:16:00jhMikeSit should be reloaded every time
00:18:34jhMikeSI'm guessing - and it's a guess from experience - separating ldmia r2, {r6, r7} and smull r5, r8, r14, r6 would be measureable too. that's tough one but that data uses that sort of thing as _the_ example of a stall.
00:18:51 Join kubiix [0] (
00:20:16 Quit freqmod (Remote closed the connection)
00:22:25markunjhMikeS: looks like I'm getting the same speed without the optimized asm as with the asm aligned now
00:22:30markunbut I'm calling it a day
00:22:43 Quit My_Sic (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
00:22:44markunmaybe you can do some test te verify it doesn't matter?
00:23:34jhMikeSI could do that later
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00:31:33 Quit petur ("Zzzzz")
00:34:12 Quit ender` (" I'm a complex person. I have a real and an imaginary part.")
00:35:04 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
00:35:06IsolinearSo is there any particular reason that a lot of fonts look jagged on the iPod 5G in Rockbox but smoother in OF?
00:35:27 Quit kubrick ("leaving")
00:36:30pixelmahow many fonts do you have in the OF?
00:36:30scorche|workthe OF uses a form of anti-aliasing
00:36:43RaZorbacKhey guys. is there a way to output ciygwin's errors in a text file in order to read them more ieasily?
00:36:48RaZorbacKplease ? :)
00:36:50scorche|workas well, they arent the same fonts, so they cant quite be compared equally
00:37:02 Join JBotAlan [0] (i=43ac5149@gateway/web/cgi-irc/
00:37:04jeplerRaZorbacK: running in bash, you can append this to a command: > output 2>&1
00:37:15scorche|workRaZorbacK: just like you would in regular linux
00:37:22jeplerthat will put the text in 'output' instead of the terminal
00:37:34RaZorbacKscorche: i'm on a egular windows :)
00:37:42RaZorbacKthanks for the tips :)
00:37:42jepler'... 2>&1 | tee output' to also see it on the terminal window
00:37:46 Quit JBotAlan (Client Quit)
00:38:52iambenyou can also use "&> output" in place of "> output 2>&1"
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00:43:50IsolinearDoesn't the iPod sim have a key to activate the virtual hold switch?
00:44:00preglowdon't think so
00:44:14IsolinearDang, I could have sworn it did...
00:44:52IsolinearAh, it's "H"!
00:45:02IsolinearMy WPS was just screwed up so I couldn't see it... :)
00:45:15preglowit is?
00:45:19preglowdamn,didn't know it had that
00:45:22IsolinearYup. :)
00:45:34IsolinearYeah, I was testing to see if my icon was working.
00:45:36 Quit donutman25 ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
00:45:42IsolinearApparently it wasn't... lol
00:46:18*Nico_P has pushed his MoB changes to
00:55:09pixelmajhMikeS: still around?
00:58:04*preglow requestsbeer
00:58:11*preglow kicks space bar
01:00:48 Quit scorche|work ("CGI:IRC")
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01:04:01***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
01:06:05IpodOwnshow to i get themes on my ipod because i know you have to unzip them onto your ipod but that dosent work for me.. and i have a mac
01:07:27IpodOwnshow to i get themes on it because i know you have to unzip them onto your ipod but that dosent work for me... and i have a mac
01:07:56alienbiker99don't repeat yourself. somebody will help you if they feel like answering
01:08:09advcomp2019the manual say how IpodOwns
01:08:34IpodOwnsno it dosent
01:09:00IpodOwnswhen i unzip them to my ipod they just go to the harddrive and they dont go into the software
01:10:13 Quit Klevi ("Leaving")
01:10:14IsolinearWhoops, we created an entire infrastructure for themes to be distrubuted and standardized and we forgot to add instructions...
01:11:13pixelmanever tried to choose them from "Browse Themes"? (See manual...)
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01:14:03IpodOwnsi have
01:14:26IpodOwnsi unziped them onto ipod and they still just stayed on the harddrive and never were in browse themes
01:14:52alienbiker99unzip them into the rockbox folder
01:14:59IpodOwnsdont have one.
01:15:08IpodOwnsi used that diskkity
01:15:18IpodOwnsi think that deleated it
01:15:34alienbiker99if you dont have a rockbox folder then you shouldnt be in the #rockbox channel
01:15:34IpodOwnsor because its .rockbox i cant see it or select it
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01:18:32IpodOwnsshould i re downlode it and then unzip it to the rockbox folder??? if there is one
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01:18:54AceNik_guys how do i go back to a previous svn revision
01:19:04AceNik_whats the command needed for that
01:19:59iambenAceNik_: svn up -r ####
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01:24:03midgeyIpodOwns: .rockbox is hidden by default on mac
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01:33:47IpodOwnsi know rockbox is hidden by defualt so how to i unzip theams onto it
01:34:47sin613via terminal app
01:34:58iambencan't you just unzip the theme zip directly onto your mounted player, exactly as you did w/ when you installed rockbox?
01:36:33pixelmaIpodOwns: how did you unzip the rockbox build then?
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01:39:42kugelis it this webguest again?
01:39:55kugelwhich didnt know how to unzip?
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01:46:31alienbiker99probably. i mean you should know how to use your own os. its not that hard to click go to then type .rockbox
01:48:00homielowewhoops, he gone,
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01:52:21pixelmalow_light (for the logs) and jhMikeS (if interested) - I just tried enabling recording on the c200 by just uncommenting HAVE_RECORDING. It sort of works but I get very noticable like static noise in the left channel which changes a bit during lcd updates (it also gets a bit better in the menu and worse in the triggered recording screen)
01:56:21pixelmanothing to hear of it in the right channel though...
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02:07:41pixelmaI mean of this noise
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02:29:53pixelmaone more for the logs... I just noticed that this noise is only present while monitoring the recording, it does not influence the recorded files but it also is not there in the OF... *stopping monologue here*
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02:49:20Davide-NYCOK I'm back
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03:04:05***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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03:14:03sdbarkerHiya folks.
03:15:38sdbarkerHas anybody gotten the piezo patch to work with the current svn revision? It applies and compiles fine, but there's no sound from the piezo, and there are no menu options for it.
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04:28:22chrisjs169sdbarker, now ask ;)
04:28:34sdbarkerI already asked YOU.
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04:44:57stevenmHello! I hear talks of turning MIDI into a codec? :)
04:45:38stevenmOr so sayeth the logs.. Does anyone think this is feasible?
04:45:53sdbarkerHaven't looked at it.
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04:46:17Lloreanstevenm: Apparently not without some clever finagling.
04:46:30stevenmLlorean, yea, very true
04:46:56sdbarkerAnd just like that, *poof*, there's activity. Llorean, did you see my piezo question above?
04:47:25ThatGuyAgainany dev's in the calgary, alberta area ?
04:47:42Lloreansdbarker: Please don't highlight specific people to ask if they've tried a patch. Why not post to the actual tracker entry so that it goes to everyone watching (and thus presumably caring about) the patch?
04:48:19sdbarkerI wasn't highlighting a specific person so much as I was asking the next person that showed up.
04:48:22stevenmI can say right now that the music files are small, but each one requires loading instruments from the HD. The loader only pulls in the patches that the file calls for. These are put into memory and pointers to them are kept in a data structure.
04:49:35stevenmOne file can theoretically ask for every possible instrument, which would need as much memory as the patchset directory occupies.
04:49:43stevenmThis isn't very likely however.
04:50:15sdbarkerYeah, that could get pretty weighty.
04:50:35LloreanThe problem is that even with a limited subset of instruments, one file can take up a significant amount of buffer space despite its size, and if you have multiple midi files there ought to be a way to re-use them rather than buffering them multiple times, etc.
04:50:38stevenmIt is possible to trim down a little bit of memory by only loading the parts of each instrument that the file would want (ie there are 10 piano waveforms but you may only need 5) but the vast majority of patches have ~3-5 waveforms amd most are used.
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04:52:57stevenmLlorean, it would be possible to share the instruments when playing multiple files
04:53:18Lloreanstevenm: I believe the problem is that there's not an effective way to do this with the current buffering strategies.
04:53:44stevenmI don't know if the codec gets called multiple times for each song played, or what, but all 'instances' of the codec could share the first pointer to the instrument data structure.
04:54:19ThatGuyAgainas for my previous questions, any dev's in the calgary, alberta area, working on the nano port that I could lend my nano to and perhaps help in resolving issue FS #7510
04:54:29Lloreanstevenm: Where do you put it? Codecs can't currently steal a portion of the audio buffer for their own use, afaik.
04:54:37stevenmIf I remember right, it's just an array of 128 pointers, corresponding to the 128 instruments. If the instrument was loaded, there's a pointer to it there. else that entry is null
04:54:55stevenmLlorean, yes, that's a problem
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04:56:07stevenmMaybe it would be possible to implement a codec 'shim' that saves the current playlist/whatever to disk, claims the whole memory, plays the song, then restores everything the way it was
04:56:32stevenmIt's UGLY but it would allow you to put MIDIs into playlists... and the disk would have to be spun up to read the instruments anyway
04:56:35LloreanOf course, I'm not the best person to speak on this one, since I'm not sure the exact details, or necessarily even the foggy ones.
04:56:55Lloreanstevenm: Yes, but if the instruments could be buffered with the songs, you wouldn't need to spin up again later for them.
04:57:00stevenmAt least I got all that info into the logs for when they talk about it next time. Most of the day I am in class
04:57:26stevenmLlorean, hmm.. good point. But there's probably a limit on how much data can be pre-buffered with every song, no?
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04:58:08Lloreanstevenm: Once metadata on buffer works, there really isn't as far as I know. The only limit is 'how much space is in the buffer', but the problem with simply doing it that way is that you'd have repeats, if two songs used the same patch, they'd both have a copy of it.
04:58:41LloreanHow much memory would a midi + everything it needs probably take?
05:00:19stevenmLlorean, Good question. Midi itself is small... but the instruments can theoretically be up to 30 megs
05:00:23stevenmyeah. big.
05:03:17LloreanBig enough to cause problems if you want multiple songs.
05:04:07***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
05:04:13stevenmnot multiple MIDI files
05:04:23stevenmlikely not
05:04:39LloreanOnly if you find a way to reuse loaded patches
05:04:43stevenm30 megs is every possible instrument. 29 megs, more accurately
05:04:49stevenmyes, that is if they are re-used
05:05:15stevenmif you load all 29 megs of patches, any additional files would only need memory to store the notes
05:05:49stevenmit's still a ton of memory
05:08:08LloreanYeah, and problematic if your playlist is like, MIDI, MP3, MIDI
05:08:19stevenmvery true
05:08:56LloreanSo, to integrate well into the playlist it needs some work is all. Or some compromises.
05:09:20stevenmsadly I know little of the codec framework
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05:41:57kkurbjunanyone around that can give some pointers on the rockbox.bin creation from rockbox.elf?
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06:04:46JdGordonkkurbjun: not having much luck?
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06:07:27kkurbjunjdgordon, cat and I got the main build loading on his jtag setup
06:07:32kkurbjunand it gets to the menu and all
06:07:48kkurbjunbut there's something wrong with the normal build
06:07:53kkurbjunI'm getting closer
06:08:10JdGordonhopefully pointing out the obvious, but just in case... did you fix in firmware? (i tinhk needed chanign didnt it?)
06:08:11kkurbjun1 bug in the linker nailed down at least and were changed
06:08:41kkurbjunbut i changed incorrectly
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06:52:52raphithe recording with the microphone doesn't work on a cowon iAudio X5 (60gb). Is there any workaround?
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06:53:30raphiI just can't hear any sound, and the peak-meter is alway 'full'
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07:02:51JdGordonkkurbjun: you know your keymap wont work very well right?
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07:04:11***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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07:48:16sin613raphi: are you referring to recording with the internal microphone, or with an external microphone via line-in?
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08:01:04HidalgoDCHey all
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08:10:49Tokiforks for me through line-in
08:11:02Toki*works :)
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09:03:47scorchepondlife: hi
09:04:15***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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09:10:13scorchepondlife: re: the voice ifdef, has anyone started work on one?
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09:18:56Zagorooh, new zunes
09:19:21*scorche pokes LinusN
09:22:43GodEater_more zunes not to run linux on!
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09:23:22petur"whatever happened to those zunelinux guys?"
09:23:32peturway less fun without them
09:24:02scorchewell, you can always make a new site and get the kids that come to donate their lunch money to help the port if you are getting nostalgic
09:24:18syn4psei'm getting a compile error on my plugin. it says 'BMP_amaze_tiles' undeclared (first use in this function) and I have #include "amaze_tiles.h" in my source.
09:24:42LinusNscorche: here
09:25:42LinusNsyn4pse: it's hard to help you without viewing the code
09:26:09syn4pseLinusN: gotcha.
09:27:07LinusNdo you include amaze_tiles.h before the function in question? and is it really called BMP_amaze_tiles in the header file?
09:27:43markunpetur: wow, I completely forgot about them!
09:29:06syn4pseyes, I declare amaze_tiles.h at the top of the source. the header file just has BMPHEIGHT_amaze_tiles and BMPWIDTH_etc.., plus the line about extern const unsigned
09:29:28syn4psei am borring a fn from star.c to draw the tiles
09:29:36 Join bluebrother [0] (i=bRGv06Yu@rockbox/staff/bluebrother)
09:29:39GodEater_syn4pse: how about pastebin'ing some of your code so we can see it ?
09:30:01syn4psesure. i've never pastebin-ed before. what's the url?
09:30:30GodEater_ is the one we use most
09:31:13syn4pseok i'll cut and paste, couple of secs
09:31:49pondlifescorche: Not yet, but it would be easy enough
09:32:29scorchepondlife: i was going to volunteer for it...just after i get the themes site out (hopefully this week)
09:33:04pondlifeGo for it; you can replace the PLAYBACK_VOICE tests and extend out to all voice-only code
09:33:18JdGordoni think adding HAVE_VOICE would just be annoying... is anyone actually going to disable it?
09:33:25pondlifeMake sure you enable it by default, of course
09:33:50scorcheJdGordon: well, i thought that HAVE_TAGCACHE would rarely be used as well...but it seems quite a few people are using it for all sorts of things
09:35:31*JdGordon gone for a few days again... cyaz
09:35:34pondlifeI added PLAYBACK_VOICE to try and help modularise playback.c....
09:35:35 Quit JdGordon ("Konversation terminated!")
09:36:51scorchewell, as long as rockbox stays behind ...
09:37:54scorchepondlife: well, i cna see a few uses for it, so i shall add it to my list...just wanted to double-check that no one else is working on it
09:38:20pondlifeNot AFAIK
09:38:42syn4pseok, the pastebin URL is
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09:47:09GodEater_syn4pse: and another one for amaze_tiles.h ?
09:48:16LinusNsyn4pse: we need to see amaze_tiles.h too
09:48:44LinusNsyn4pse: are you really sure about this one?
09:48:45LinusN#define TILE_WIDTH BMP_amaze_tiles
09:48:59IsolinearWith using the RBUtilQt installer to install rockbox...
09:49:12IsolinearIs there anything wrong with running it from within the zip file?
09:50:42*Bagder approves his own mailing list post... :-/
09:51:12*Bagder is the only moderated subscriber of the rockbox users list
09:52:26BagderI'll dread the day the spammers start considering these things
09:52:46BagderI mean for real rather than by mistake as here
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09:53:28syn4pseLinusN: i am totally unsure about that one.
09:53:36 Quit spiorf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
09:54:34syn4pseLinusN & GE: i just haven't found the docs on how to implement a bitmap in my code. i'm winging it. the amaze.h was generated on the fly. i'll post it.
09:57:39syn4psehere's the update
09:58:12syn4pseand, by the way, thanks for looking at it.
10:02:45 Quit spiorf_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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10:05:27syn4pseLinusN: you pegged it. i'm not sure why it's coded that way in star.c, but sudoku.c pointed out the right way to get the height and width.
10:05:45syn4psenow, to see what else is wrong with my drawing routine.
10:07:53 Quit FOAD ("I'll be back")
10:08:43homielowebluebrother: On the osx version of rbutilQT it seems that the utility won't unzip to the player directory (iPod 5G) , and will only unzip to my harddrive on my mac. Attempting to manually define the path only shows the mac HD also.
10:09:54IsolinearDoes the Rockbox auto installation utility make the same backups of original information that the manual installation process does?
10:10:08GodEater_Isolinear: such as ?
10:10:39IsolinearI don't recall, it was over a year ago that I manually installed RB on my 5G iPod.
10:10:49IsolinearNow I'm doing it to my girlfriend's 4G.
10:11:00IsolinearI think I backed up an original bootloader?
10:11:24homieloweI figured this out after about a month of use and trying to find the gradient selection under settings to no avail, then i checked the version number of the build on my iPod
10:11:34bluebrotherIsolinear: Rockbox Utililty simply uses ipodpatcher for the Ipods. And there is no separate backup file needed since quite a while now
10:11:45Isolinear"apple_os.bin" "apple_sw_5g_rcsc.bin"
10:11:55IsolinearI have these files from my original modification.
10:12:14IsolinearI also have "bootloader-video.bin"
10:12:19bluebrotheralso, you can't simply "run" an executeable from a zip file −− doing so will always create a temporary file and execute that
10:12:39bluebrotherbut you can run Rockbox Utility that way −− it doesn't rely on other external files.
10:12:46GodEater_Isolinear: yeah - none of those files are required as backups these days
10:12:47 Join daurn|iphone [0] (n=daurn@
10:12:59GodEater_daurn|iphone: out. Now.
10:13:02bluebrotherit obviously won't find the external translation files though
10:13:04IsolinearGodEater: Why not?
10:13:16pondlifejhMikeS: In r14962 you modify global settings to disable talk menus - might this not result in them being disabled if the player is reset while mpegplayer is running?
10:13:27GodEater_Isolinear: because ipodpatcher can restore your ipod to it's former state without them
10:13:29bluebrotherhomielowe: that really surprises me. Are you sure the Ipod is mounted?
10:13:32GodEater_and thus, so can rbutil
10:13:47bluebrotherand, is there an error message or does it simply not work?
10:13:57 Quit daurn|iphone (Client Quit)
10:14:01pondlifejhMikeS: It would be better to use the talk_disable_menus() and talk_enable_menus() calls, but I suppose they need adding to the plugin API.
10:14:04IsolinearGodEater: Has that always been the case? If so, why was backing up my original files part of the installation process last year?
10:14:15GodEater_Isolinear: no it hasn't always been the case
10:14:16homieloweIt can detect the iPod, just when I bring up change directory it is "/"
10:14:41homieloweit will complete the download, unzip etc, and no errors.
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10:15:10jhMikeSpondlife: I thought there was an API but couldn't find it
10:15:27bluebrotherby "change directory" you are referring to the "Browse" button / selection in the device configuration?
10:15:32pondlifeYep, those just perform a temporary/non-persisted disable of voice menus
10:15:44IsolinearIs my 5G in some kind of vulnerable state having been installed the old way as opposed to the new way?
10:15:56bluebrotherdetecting the mountpoint currently does not work on OS X, so you'll always need to configure the mountpoint manually
10:16:03bluebrotherIsolinear: no
10:16:08IsolinearSince the old way required making backups that are apparently no longer neccessary to back up?
10:16:20 Quit daurn|iphone (Client Quit)
10:16:23GodEater_Isolinear: not really no
10:16:36IsolinearOr did ipodpatcher just get better and now it doesn't rely on those backed up files?
10:16:56jhMikeSpondlife: then yeah, I guess I'll switch it...and for doom too since it needs it.
10:16:58GodEater_Isolinear: correct
10:17:19bluebrotherhmm, there might be an issue with the folder chooser. If you type the mountpoint manually (should be something like "/Volumes/IPOD") does it work?
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10:18:11IsolinearGotcha. :)
10:18:45jhMikeSamiconn: my i2s troubles seem to disappear if I increase the PLL relock time on pp5020
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10:21:46homielowebluebrother: That works, jsut had to rename.(volume name different)
10:23:49bluebrotherthe problem is that mountpoint resolving works differently on OS X and I don't know how ... if you do, please post a patch ;-)
10:24:37homielowemaybe make reference to this on the wiki page. Do you need someone to compile because mac osx on the wiki is a lower version than the linux and the windows version?
10:25:20GodEater_bluebrother: do the /Volumes/xxx entries not appear in mtab /
10:25:28homieloweI about to start a computer science course in september, I'm just teaching myself C right now, maybe in the future. ;)
10:25:36bluebrotherGodEater_: I really have no idea.
10:25:50GodEater_bluebrother: we should get linuxstb to check
10:25:59bluebrotherbut does OS X have an mtab?
10:26:06GodEater_should have
10:26:09GodEater_it's a POSIX thing
10:26:13bluebrotherI remember some things to be differently.
10:26:53bluebrotherI was wondering if trying on BSD would help (as OS X is based on that)
10:28:00GodEater_I'd be surprised if BSD doesn't implement mtab
10:29:33jhMikeSamiconn: yep. My patched PCM code seems stable now. Can't lock it.
10:30:08bluebrotherGodEater_: might be worth a try.
10:30:27bluebrotherhomielowe: can you build Rockbox Utility yourself?
10:31:15homieloweI've manually built the cross-compiler, patch etc, just following the instructions right now( jsut dowloaded qt)
10:31:58GodEater_you don't need a crosscompiler for rbutil
10:32:02GodEater_you need a native one
10:32:08homielowe( I know, jsut examples)
10:36:18pondlifeamiconn: I have someone living nearby who has a crashing Nano. He's willing to lend me it, but would prefer not to send it through the post. My PP knowledge (and my hacking time) are both limited, but I can certainly build and perform tests. Do you think we'd be able to work together to progress this, or would it just be a waste of time?
10:37:33bluebrotherhomielowe: I'm out for a couple of minutes; if you are able building rbutil just let me know −− I could prepare you a patch that tries reading the mtab.
10:37:40bluebrotherno idea if this works though ...
10:38:07*homielowe has no idea how to patch, will attempt to learn
10:40:27*jhMikeS thinks rethink of the scaling system needs doing so that the system isn't held hostage during pll relocks
10:42:15LinusNjhMikeS: any idea how to solve that?
10:42:18 Quit Isolinear ()
10:44:08jhMikeSLinusN: Start the PLL sequence, setup a one-shot to go off after 1ms. Keep the system at 24MHz and return from the routine. When the interrupt fires, switch the clock source.
10:45:01homielowewhen running make and make install, what does "Run make followed by (as root) make install" <−− the root part mean, ( trying to compile qt for mac osx for rbutil
10:45:17jhMikeSI'm just wondering a good way to pull it off without permanently changing the tick frequency or using another timer.
10:47:29LinusNit works a little differently on the coldfire...
10:47:48LinusNthere the clock source is switched automatically when the pll has locked
10:48:28jhMikeSis there any interrupt associate with it?
10:48:32LinusNno what's the trouble with not waiting?
10:49:43GodEater_homielowe: it means to login as "root" (the admin user), and run "make install"
10:50:04GodEater_homielowe: I have vague memories of needing to do weird stuff on OSX to enable the root user though
10:50:16homieloweGodeater: Since I'm the sole operater, I got that one covered ;)
10:50:42LinusNjhMikeS: timer drift
10:51:35LinusNplus you need to reprogram the RAM refresh timers when it has locked
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10:52:47jhMikeSHow long does PLL relock typically take? It _up to_ to 10ms.
10:53:29LinusNi believe it's typically a lot shorter, like 1-2ms
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10:53:38LinusNi think amiconn has some numbers
10:54:58amiconnjhMikeS: It's odd that extending the relock time actually changes things
10:55:17jhMikeSamiconn: quite drastically.
10:55:57amiconnThe 500us are used in all PP5020 ipod firmwares, so I would expect them to be plenty
10:56:59amiconnRegarding asynchronous clock switching, I would expect numerous problems
10:57:07jhMikeSWith altered timing to accessing the i2s it would freeze pretty fast. It's been going a long time now.
10:58:33jhMikeSamiconn: any targets in particular? PPs seem designed for it and I had experimented in switching clocks just to flush the cache. I had no problems.
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10:59:09jhMikeSFrankly it was the solution that worked best of all.
10:59:17 Quit atsea-34 (Remote closed the connection)
10:59:38amiconnOne thing is that on coldfire it's necessary to adjust the timer prescaler as shortly as possible to the actual clock change, which can only be detected by polling PLLCR
11:00:25jhMikeSI get that one for sure.
11:00:52*bluebrother returns
11:00:59thesealheeeeeloo my frinds in #rockbox
11:01:44thesealq: rockbox win istaller doesent find my ipod, neither do anapod manager and it doesent show up in diskmode in the win explorer, is my gen 5 ipod a coaster?
11:01:50amiconnAnd there are also some things which should never be active during a clock change, or otherwise you'd have to adjust them towards the safe side all the time
11:02:14bluebrothertheseal: have you tried rebooting the PC? Also, do you have a hub between PC and Ipod?
11:02:38thesealno hub, newly rebootet PC, a schechy one....
11:02:39bluebrotherand have you enabled "disc access" in Itunes if it's installed?
11:02:48amiconn(e.g. ide transfers and serial transfers on coldfire)
11:02:58thesealitunes has never found its way into myc computers, it is devils work..
11:03:15bluebrotherhave you tried ememgency disc mode?
11:03:32thesealrestet + play/hold; yes.
11:03:53bluebrotherok, and the Ipod still does not appear on the PC. Further ideas:
11:04:05thesealbluebrother: shoot
11:04:09bluebrotherbroken cable. Broken usb port.
11:04:18***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
11:04:26thesealcable worked fine this morning i my alfa, usb works w printer
11:04:31bluebrothermessed up usb system on the PC (I had this once)
11:04:41thesealok, cool, what to do?
11:04:44bluebrotherhmm, you could try a different PC.
11:04:58amiconnOn PP the timer problem does not exist, but I would expect problems in various modules
11:05:05thesealhow sensitive are the ipods, i have had som trouble earlier
11:05:13thesealand had to change computer..
11:05:36bluebrotherwell, I never had problems. I know that there are issues e.g. with a semi-broken cable.
11:05:44 Quit HidalgoDC ()
11:05:49thesealoh fuck.. so you say.
11:06:16bluebrotherso while I see a possiblilty that your Ipod is broken I'd try to use a different cable / pc / usb port first (in all possible combinations)
11:06:40thesealbut I have "blue and me" in my alfa, where i run the pod from the mobile6 and it works perfectly with this cabel this morning.
11:06:43jhMikeSamiconn: So if you don't set PLLBYPASS to '1', the PLL won't be automatically relocked and all dividers can be valid for 11MHz?
11:06:51thesealok, cool.. I'll try those
11:07:13thesealbluebrother: have you any nowledge in fiats "blue&me"?
11:07:21thesealreeboot bbs...
11:08:01amiconnpondlife: I'm not sure, but I don't think that would be of much help. The problem is that I'm not even sure about the reason of the crash (although I suspect it has to do with ata), so it requires excessive testing
11:08:05amiconnjhMikeS: ??
11:08:42jhMikeSWhy is auto relocking needed?
11:08:52jhMikeSauto selection rather
11:09:03*amiconn doesn't seem to understand
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11:09:41amiconnThe relock can take up to 10ms, but it's not predictable how long it _actually_ takes
11:10:03pondlifeamiconn: I feared as much. I'm very willing to run lots of tests, but you'd need to give me a set of factors to vary. :/
11:10:51pondlifeI can at least test in a structured manner, and tabulate the results.
11:10:52amiconnpondlife: The problem here is that the factors can only be deduced from the tests themselves
11:10:57jhMikeSTrue but I don't have an issue with that. You can test PLLCR bit 31 asynchronously.
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11:11:29jhMikeSthis one can be pulled off on cf too
11:11:58pondlifeamiconn: OK, I'll decline the offer, and suggest he reconsiders the postal option. Would you be willing to receive a Nano from within the EU?
11:11:59amiconnjhMikeS: I don't seem to understand what you're trying to say. If you want to change clock, you have to program the pll and enable it. Then it decides to switch after relock
11:12:08LinusNjhMikeS: the thing is that we need to reprogram the timer prescalers as soon as possible after the lock
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11:12:14amiconnAnd in order to keep the timers precise, you need to poll
11:12:51theseal_bluebrother: ooouch, forgot to have irssi in the screen... putty died w windos
11:13:01amiconnAnd since PLLCR bit 31 cannot fire an interrupt, there is no way around that afaics...
11:13:25jhMikeSwhere does it say the pll can only relock to a new f in PLLBYPASS =0?
11:14:34jhMikeSso you can change it to 24MHz without setting PLLBYPASS to '1', correct?
11:14:34amiconnBut I rather let it poll for (typically) 1..2ms than let it run for the full 10ms at 11MHz just to do something else meanwhile
11:14:47jhMikeSI wouldn't do that
11:15:07*amiconn still doesn't understand
11:15:24jhMikeSCheck it every 1ms. Switch it over when bit 31 = 1
11:15:27amiconnAnd where do you take 24MHz from??
11:16:08jhMikeSwhat runs off that?
11:16:12LinusNjhMikeS: bit 31 will never be 1 when in bypass mode
11:16:14theseal_bluebrother: emergency discmode?
11:16:27theseal_bluebrother: reeboot and hold play and select?
11:17:52LinusN"When PLL bypass is written 1, CPU clock will be switched to PLL-generated values. The
11:17:52LinusNswitching is delayed until the PLL has been locked, and produces a stable clock output for CPU."
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11:18:43jhMikeSbut I don't see that implying that the locked flag doesn't get set
11:18:50amiconnYes, but the datasheet doesn't say whether bit 31 indicates 'locked' even when running on bypass
11:18:53LinusNbut sure, i must say that i haven't actually tried to monitor the PLL lock bit in bypass mode
11:18:55 Quit spiorf (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:19:07LinusNworth a try
11:19:22amiconnjhMikeS: Btw, how would you do that monitoring in 1ms intervals?
11:19:23jhMikeSyes, empirical data is always good to get
11:19:33bluebrothertheseal_: yep.
11:19:41LinusNamiconn: timer interrupt
11:19:53amiconnBoth timers are already taken...
11:19:54jhMikeSyeah, just a one-shot
11:20:12amiconnOr rather, have to be seen as being taken
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11:21:31jhMikeSI wonder about using 1ms tick but doing ticks every 10th tick.
11:22:29amiconnHmm, that might work - provided the bit indicates locked even when on bypass *and* keeps that locked state when actually switching
11:22:52amiconnTo me that sounds much too complicated for a tiny benefit
11:23:03LinusNthere is a possibility to use the ADC for one-shot timing
11:23:05jhMikeSwe must get all the needed resources and clocks in 11MHz mode
11:23:16LinusNthe adc interrupt
11:23:44LinusNwith a really slow adc clock
11:24:50jhMikeSI thought about this this morning since these waits are just really long for PLL in CPU time. I dunno. Thing work with or without but it increases latencies.
11:26:00LinusNshouldn't be an issue as long as we don't switch frequency too often
11:26:46jhMikeStrue, it would be nasty to do alot in either case
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11:27:52amiconnAsynchronous switching would create another nastiness, btw: youz'd need to consider what to do when a new switching request arrives while still waiting for an old one to complete...
11:29:31LinusNmajor headache :-)
11:29:51jhMikeSI did consider that
11:30:57jhMikeSFrankly, I can remove far worse latencies with some careful revising sleep_core and these matter much more and measure out.
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11:33:40jhMikeSamiconn: I find it hard to believe that PP could keep the system down including all interrupt activity for 500us. The audio output would be awful.
11:34:09amiconnInterrupts aren't disabled
11:35:15jhMikeSI guess not in apple firmware then. Aren't they for H10?
11:35:35amiconnI don't know at all how the OF uses interrupts
11:35:43amiconnI meant in rockbox
11:36:59jhMikeSYou said Apple OF waits 500us? It polls USEC_TIMER for 500us?
11:38:57jhMikeSI think they must just set the modes and switch the clock source to change frequency instead of changing the PLL all the time.
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11:39:33amiconnThe clock setup routine is very similar to what we have now
11:40:19theseal_so back from lunch
11:41:09jhMikeSwell, very similar is one thing. is it used the same way? Of course they can preempt the task waiting for PLL relock. we can't
11:41:38theseal_bluebrother: I only have on cable here with me, but something is fishy, in emergency discmode, it hangs the explorer when I try to browse with the pod connected..
11:41:55amiconnHow could I tell? I don't know whether the ipod OF uses preemptive threading (but I doubt it does)
11:43:27bluebrothertheseal_: well, you should try to borrow a cable and check with that to rule it out.
11:43:42jhMikeSIs it RTXC kernel?
11:43:51bluebrotherthere have been quite some reports which turned out to be a broken cable.
11:44:30theseal_bluebrother: thanks for the tip, I'll run down and by a new straight away...
11:44:39peturjhMikeS: what would that tell? Most RT kernels can be configured for threading type
11:44:55amiconnI have no idea either
11:45:30amiconnAll I did was some disassembling and digging for certain hardware related functions
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11:48:49jhMikeSlots of juicy strings exist in the H10 OF
11:50:17amiconnWhen I tried to compare H10 and Sansa OF with ipod, I found that H10 and Sansa disassemblies are a lot harder to read and understand
11:50:41jhMikeSnonetheless, H10 is way more stable with a longer relock time. don't know if doubling it is needed however.
11:50:42amiconnI didn't dig for strings at all
11:50:52jhMikeSH10 and e200 seems nearly twins
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11:52:34jhMikeSI havnen't been able to crash it yet and can do what I please with i2s without problems.
11:52:57*amiconn thinks that's rather strange
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11:53:22amiconnBut then I wasn't able to understand the H10 clock switching, so that doesn't tell much
11:53:50syn4pseLinusN: it works now, like a champ.
11:53:58jhMikeSIt is a bugger. I should probably examine Apple FW to get the remaining info on the hw sync primitives.
11:54:02amiconnWhat's interesting about all PP502x ipod firmwares I checked is that they all have clock switching code for *both* PP5020 and PP5022, selected dynamically
11:54:13amiconnThe ipod video firmware also has code for PP5026 (!)
11:54:19syn4pseGodEater: thanks to you as well
11:55:25jhMikeSamiconn: what uses pp5026? I've never heard of anything.
11:55:36amiconnYeah, me neither
11:55:44amiconnHence the "(!)"
11:55:56GodEater_I don't even know where it's available from
11:56:00jhMikeSmaybe it was in development when they went bankrupt :)
11:56:02GodEater_nVidia only advertise the 5024
11:56:27amiconnGodEater: Yup, and the 5024 identifies itself as 5022
11:56:45GodEater_that's clever of it :) does the 5021
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11:57:03*jhMikeS thougt it was 5022_C_
11:58:00amiconnThe label and the internal identifier of the PP chips seem to not match sometimes
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11:58:20amiconnjhMikeS: The 5021 (e.g. ipod nano, ipod video) also identifies as PP5022C
11:58:21jhMikeSThe 5021 must have come out from all support from their boobytrapped pp5020 :)
11:58:40amiconn...while the chip in the mini g2 (labeled PP5022) identifies as PP5022B
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11:59:19amiconnOf the PP5020, I only ever saw the 'E' revision
11:59:37 Quit hannesd__ ("Client suicide")
11:59:45jhMikeSso which pp5020 target is the least stable?
12:00:29amiconnThe small H10 seems to have problems related to disk poweroff (sometimes). Other than that, they are equal afaik
12:01:19jhMikeS1ms seems a long time but seems to work just fine and keeps it from being too twitchy to changes
12:02:19amiconnI never experienced clock setup related problems on my H10 after my changes (which I originally did on a mini g1)
12:03:41amiconnVoice often hangs, but I think this is a dual core related problem. Freezes on coldfire are almost completely fixed now
12:03:51amiconn(only got 1 or 2 after pondlife's fixes)
12:06:32markunpetur: do you know what the status of the USB stack is?
12:07:20peturmarkun: still waiting for a commit from austriancoder that adds read/write to the UMS driver
12:07:21jhMikeSI don't think it is. There nothing happening with the COP besides just sitting in sleep_core doing ticks.
12:07:45peturmarkun: other than that: not much rockbox time atm :(
12:07:55jhMikeSI haven't been able to lock voice at all.
12:08:00 Quit syn4pse ("Time wasted on IRC: 16 minutes 13 seconds")
12:08:41jhMikeSVoice boosts and unboosts quite frequently so any problem came up faster running around the menu.
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12:11:29Rob2222Hi all.
12:11:52 Quit Nico_P (Remote closed the connection)
12:11:57Rob2222Will the ipod classic become a development target?
12:13:13GodEater_Rob2222: unlikely
12:14:14Rob2222why that? 160gb sounds very nice. but i dont would use a non rockbox player anymore ;)
12:14:45linuxstbRob2222: It will be a very hard port - hard encryption and undocumented hardware.
12:14:48GodEater_1) None of the devs own one. 2) The firmware partition on it is completely hidden, unlike previous ipods, and 3) the firmware is encrypted, just as it was on the 2G
12:14:53Rob2222is the classic so different fomr the other players?
12:15:03GodEater_Rob2222: yes - it's completely different hardware
12:15:10Rob2222ugh :(
12:15:37Rob2222who cares the original FW, as long as a bootloader is doable ;)
12:15:40Rob2222well ok
12:15:47Rob2222then ill have to wait and see
12:15:51GodEater_Rob2222: the bootloader ISN'T doable
12:15:56GodEater_because of the encryption
12:16:17Rob2222to the player loads only encrypted/signes software?
12:16:23GodEater_Rob2222: exactly
12:16:49Rob2222very depressing
12:17:05Rob2222my only with is a small rockbox player with more than 80gb :(
12:17:24theseal_bluebrother: new cabel here...
12:17:35Zagorbuy a classic, rip out the disk, install it in another player ;-)
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12:18:06Zagoror perhaps those disks will hit the open market soon
12:18:16Rob2222zagor: according the internet the 160gb disc has a CE-ATA plug. which player has CE-ATA?!
12:18:29Zagorah, that'll be a problem of course
12:18:30theseal_the pod doesent show up in explorer but it shows in computermanagement as a mass storade device..
12:18:56bluebrotherhmm, does it show the correct partition type?
12:19:21theseal_bluebrother: what to look for?
12:19:39 Quit spiorf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:20:31bluebrotherthe Ipod should show two partitions. A small firmware partition and the data partition
12:21:00theseal_in explorer... ope, nutting
12:21:24theseal_but it shows in computermanagement
12:21:30theseal_when connected..
12:22:14bluebrotherwell, windows explorer will only show the data partition. Does disc management show the drive and does it have a drive letter assigned?
12:22:55*GodEater_ detects basic computer knowledge lessons again
12:23:13theseal_<−−-noob with potential broken ipod
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12:25:11theseal_no driveletters assigned anywhere
12:25:13ender`theseal_: install itunes and verify that the ipoo is recognised by it (it'll probably offer to reformat it to windows format for you)
12:25:39jhMikeSamiconn: You never did a timing on the PP5022/24 relock time (since it has a relock bit)?
12:25:46theseal_ender, I am up to tha now, I hate itunes, but I guess is the way to go
12:25:50bluebrotherdoes it show the two partitions? If yes, what are the properties of the second?
12:26:02theseal_bluebrother: no partitions
12:26:35bluebrotherthat doesn't sound good.
12:26:46amiconnjhMikeS: Nope. The relock bit seems to be a bit unreliable, hence the extra delay *before* starting to check it
12:27:15bluebrotherin that case the idea using Itunes sounds like a good try to me.
12:27:28bluebrotherhaven't thought of that myself before :o
12:27:48amiconnender`, theseal_: No full installation of itunes is necessary for that. The separate updater is sufficient (but even that one installs a service in windows)
12:28:06theseal_amiconn: yes I know, thanks
12:28:23*bluebrother didn't know that
12:28:37theseal_it's a little hard to find though
12:33:03Rob2222is there a little chance left for RB @ ipod classic?
12:33:19bluebrotherif someone cracks the encryption ...
12:34:35Rob2222that _could_ be doable, maybe, or?
12:35:06GodEater_Rob2222: it's very very very very hard
12:35:06bluebrotherwell, the Nano 2G is out since quite a while and nobody managed to run custom code on it
12:35:26bluebrotherand I guess the encryption of the classic is harder than on the nano
12:35:41bluebrotherat least it's definitely not weaker.
12:38:23theseal_bluebrother: I think I am on to something....
12:38:33theseal_powermanegement fcks upp the pod connection
12:40:49jhMikeSamiconn: I'm not seeing any discernable delay beyond the 250uS. Just a couple uS change left over.
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12:47:26amiconnjhMikeS: Yeah, but if you skip the 250us and start checking right away, the loop is left too early on *some* PP5022s, making those very unstable
12:50:49theseal_now the pod started to show in "safe remove of device management"
12:51:12theseal_but with the ipod connected itunes takes forewer to start
12:51:45 Quit linuxstb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
12:51:49theseal_now it showes in itunes and i am restoring
12:52:38theseal_this ipod is FUCKED
12:52:40theseal_I hate it
12:53:01theseal_and i hate itunes
12:53:25markuntheseal_: maybe you can sell it?
12:53:57theseal_maybe I can use it as a coaster..
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12:54:25theseal_it works perfectly but once in a while it doesent want to connect to any computer
12:54:58webguest81does anyone know about windows neptune?
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12:55:13bluebrotherwebguest81: what does this have to do with Rockbox?
12:56:10webguest81i can't find a irc for this
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12:57:02bluebrotherand why do you think the people in this channel should know? It's completely off topic.
12:57:44webguest81because i don't know
12:58:21bluebrotheralready considered asking google?
12:58:25webguest81short of going hcs:
12:58:58GodEater_Llorean: response to most recent apple install thread ?
12:59:22webguest81that works
12:59:46jhMikeSamiconn: I only tested with the delay in place and saw no extra time from a relock wait.
12:59:48rvvs89_hcs is /away...
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13:01:01*jhMikeS supposes he'll test it "pure"
13:02:48jhMikeShrm...never seems to actually wait on it
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13:08:27theseal_it is here that I shout foul word to express my frustration...
13:09:16theseal_words now
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13:17:04theseal_ok, boys, so basicly I need to se the ipod in the explorer to install rockbox???
13:18:50markuncan you see it in explorer?
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13:20:18elmargolcan I edit a .torrent file using rtorrent?
13:21:01theseal_markun: no, it doesent show in explorer.. it shows in device manager, safe removal of hardware, and as i ipod that needs restore in itunes
13:21:21markuntheseal_: but the restore was successful, right?
13:21:32markun"12:52 < theseal_> restored"
13:22:07PaulJamdon't you need to enable an option in itunes to make it show up in explorer?
13:22:22theseal_the srestore was sucessfull, it rebooted and needed a new restore in itunes again...
13:23:16theseal_and again, and again..
13:23:26pixelmabtw. what kind of Ipod do you have?
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13:25:09theseal_PaulJam, where?
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13:25:50theseal_I deemed this pod dead, but i still works fine listening to and in my alfa i works perfect
13:26:05theseal_reeboot... brb
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13:26:52PaulJamI'm not sure. i don't have itunes. it is an option to enable the mass storage capabilities of the ipod, but i don't think it'LL WORK IF ITUNES THINKS THAT YOUR IPOD NEEDS TO BE RESTORED:
13:27:26PaulJamsorry for the capital letters
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13:35:08 Part LinusN
13:35:40ddaltoncan someone help me with some code?
13:36:06ddaltonit doesn't seem to recognise my lang entries. New ones I have added.
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13:38:21theseal_thans boys.. I'll try at home instead...
13:38:30theseal_off to daycare to pick up the offspring.
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13:40:48ddaltonLinusN: I have been away for the last week. But does p7682 look ok? The voice interuption issue seems to be fixed here.
13:41:59GodEater_two ipod touchs have turned up in the office today
13:42:07GodEater_pretty, but - somehow, I don't know - not very DAPish
13:42:46peturGodEater: because they are not, they are castrated PDA's
13:43:00GodEater_that's very much my feeling too
13:43:46LinusNddalton: how did you fix the voice interruption?
13:43:53*petur has been wanting a hdd or big flash in his pda for years (+ standard usb and UMS)
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14:05:08ddaltonXavierGr: any progress with setting alarms for certain dates?
14:15:43ddaltonLinusN: I used a function let me see what one. Stephane told me how to fix it
14:16:16ddaltontalk_force_enqueue_next ()
14:16:42ddaltonso do you think there is any chance of getting it committed?
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14:23:03LinusNddalton: sure, i'll just try it first - but i have no time at the moment
14:23:16ddaltonok then
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14:43:59Benoitbhi !
14:44:24BenoitbI'm having a problem with patching the source code from svn
14:45:04Domonokywhats the problem ?
14:45:13BenoitbI'd like to apply the patch FS #2954 to a recent svn but the patch says it can't find the file
14:45:23BenoitbI tried the -p 0 ~ 5
14:45:32Benoitbbut it doesn't seem to change anything
14:45:45markundoes the file exist?
14:45:48Domonokyand you are in the rockbox source dir ?
14:46:01Benoitbthe file does exist
14:46:19markunBenoitb: it should be -p0 for that file
14:46:31BenoitbI tried in source/Rockpatches
14:46:36Benoitband in source/apps
14:46:44Benoitbshould I try from soruce
14:46:54markunjust from the root
14:47:07Benoitbthis is where I'm going wrong
14:47:13Benoitbtrying again now
14:47:23markunBenoitb: if you look at the patch with a text editor it's not so difficult to understand
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14:49:17Benoitbit seems to work but I get a warning : "Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected! Assume -R?"
14:49:27ddaltonwhat patch is it?
14:49:35Benoitbthe scrolling margin patch
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14:50:06Benoitbdid it get applied although I though it was unsuccesful before ?
14:50:30Benoitbor should I re-get a clean SVN and begin the patching again ?
14:50:35n1sBenoitb: when was it last synced?
14:50:42n1sthe patc
14:50:48ddaltonrevert update and then apply the patch
14:50:49Benoitbnot the patch
14:50:56Benoitbùmy svn is from yesterday
14:51:03BenoitbI'll check for the patch
14:51:32Benoitboctober 01 by looking at the name of the patch
14:52:08Benoitbrevert update : what does it mean ?
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14:53:04bluebrotherhow about reading the WorkingWithPatches wiki page?
14:53:19markunBenoitb: "svn revert -R ./" gives you a clean svn tree
14:53:31Benoitbok, thanks a lot markun
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14:54:04Benoitbbluebrother: I'm using the simple guide to compiling now, maybe I'll check the WorkingWithPatches if I get nowhere
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15:00:54Benoitbok, I have successfully applied 2 patches
15:01:12Benoitbteh scrolling test margins, and the album art
15:02:03Benoitbbut the bmpresize seems to fail, it is not surprising however because because it seems that the last sync date is 20070624
15:04:24***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
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15:09:33ddaltonRaZorbacK: Ok I have to go it is late here. But one question did you write the french translation patch? If so maybe you should upload a diff. and also should the french translation for my talking alarm patch be mirged with your one?
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15:42:03BenoitbI understood the way to apply patches, including the path and the -pX option
15:42:28Benoitband sadly, the bmp resize is unmaintained and is not applyable at the moment
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15:52:39Solskogenwhat does the battery capacity setting do?
15:53:00n1sSolskogen: it ONLY affects the runtime estimation
15:54:41Solskogenokay, thanks
15:57:51GodEater_and it only works well on targets where the battery has been calibrated properly
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16:28:20*pondlife is considering trying the album art patch.... :/
16:28:44n1sno, don't do it !!!111!one
16:28:51pondlifeThe gradient selector bar was the start of a slippery slope covered in eye candy, I fear...
16:29:18pondlifeI felt compelled to use colour icons and a nice gradient backdrop...
16:29:37pondlifeNow I'm even thinking of killing my audio buffer for the sake of little pictures.
16:29:47pondlifeHelp me!!
16:29:48*petur pulls pondlife away from the dark side
16:30:03*n1s actually has been using nice icons and a gradient backdrop for quite a while but still no gradient selector, must resist it...
16:30:04*bluebrother throws in some pills for pondlife
16:30:13pondlifeThat's better...
16:30:33pondlifeMmm, MoB pills, my favourite
16:30:36*Domonoky exchanges pondlifes dap with a greyscale one.. :-)
16:31:09pondlifeYep, time I moved to H140.
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16:32:57*bluebrother hugs h120
16:33:43Davo_Dinkumdoes Rockbox replace *all* the firmware on the h120?
16:34:09Domonokybut it can... :-)
16:34:10pondlifeBut flashing a bootloader also flashes the OF...
16:34:20bluebrotheryou _can_ wipe the OF on h120 / h140 using the unofficial bootloader
16:34:21Davo_DinkumOF=open firmware?
16:34:30bluebrotherOriginal Firmware.
16:34:30pondlifeoriginal firmware
16:34:32DomonokyOF=original firmware
16:34:36Davo_Dinkumah ok
16:34:42pondlifeWe like that question!
16:34:52Davo_Dinkumerr which one?
16:34:58*Davo_Dinkum has used open firmware machines before
16:37:29Davo_Dinkumso bootloader+rockbox=no original firmware on h120?
16:38:18bluebrotherthat still doesn't remove the OF completely.
16:38:27DomonokyDavo_Dinkum: you would have to flash an unofficial bootloader for rockbox, to replace the OF completly..
16:38:28bluebrotherinofficial bootloader + rombox
16:38:54Davo_Dinkumok, so it could be done
16:41:09peturDavo_Dinkum: but you won't notice the OF is still there as it boots Rockbox by default
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16:45:31Davo_Dinkumcan the iriver bootloader stored in the flash memory be replaced?
16:45:55bluebrotherthe h100 series has the firmware in flash. So the Rockbox bootloader needs to get flashed.
16:46:16Davo_Dinkumoh ok
16:46:36bluebrotheryou won't notice a difference as the Rockbox bootloader is the first thing that comes up upon power-up
16:47:29Davo_Dinkumboot up time is fairly quick?
16:47:38bluebrotherjust try it ;-)
16:47:53Davo_Dinkumhehe gotta get a dap 1st :p
16:48:24bluebrothergetting a h100 might not be the easiest task though
16:48:34Davo_Dinkumyeah ebay has none
16:48:38Davo_Dinkummight get a H10
16:48:58Davo_Dinkumit has the vertical scrolly thing
16:49:05bluebrotherthings are completely different on the h10
16:49:09_slacker_hi all, in which system is rockbox based? some kind of linux embedded? or where can i find info about this?
16:49:32bluebrother_slacker_: it's not based on a system. As the front page tells, it's completely written from scratch
16:49:44Davo_Dinkumoooooh hardcore
16:51:33peturif looking for an h120/h140, also search for iHP120/iHP140
16:51:49peturthere should be some on ebay atm
16:52:28bluebrotherdepends on which ebay page you are using −− I found holding quite some interesting auctions compared to
16:53:00peturheh? you might need to change scope to worldwide...
16:54:34bluebrotheroh, that is quite hidden.
16:54:54Davo_Dinkumebay au here
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16:55:49PaulJamlittle question about the new line selector: is it intended, that when using inverted or solid colour the line selector disappears on scrolling text in the filebrowser? this does not happen in the menus.
16:56:42Davo_Dinkumhmm i can buy a remote for the ihp120 from the US
16:57:11*bluebrother remembers the h100 IR remote project
16:57:35Davo_Dinkumthe h100 as a remote?
16:57:54peturyes, wired
16:58:01bluebrotherno. Adding a IR remote to the h100
16:58:06Davo_Dinkumoh ok
16:58:23*petur read 'as' as 'has'
16:58:38Davo_Dinkumbit pointless if the h100 is in your bag/pocket, but good for home use i guess
16:58:50bluebrotheryep, that's the idea.
16:59:21Davo_Dinkumi was thinking like this
16:59:23bluebrotherbesides being a nice project to play around ;-) Too bad I never got around finishing it ... I should do.
17:00:18Davo_Dinkumif a dap had an IR port on it that would be nice
17:00:24Davo_Dinkuminstant tv remote
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17:03:00markun_slacker_: here you can find some info:
17:03:23markunmight not be 100% up to date
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17:06:16_slacker_cool, thnx both
17:07:08markun_slacker_: why do you ask btw?
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17:11:26_slacker_i'm an free software believer with a sansa e280, and i discovered rockbox today, so just for curiosity now
17:11:44_slacker_the project looks really interesting btw!
17:12:08Domonoky_slacker_: feel free to step in.. :-)
17:12:20_slacker_i'm at work, but tonight i'll rock my sansa :p
17:12:56*bluebrother points to and hopes for a success report ;-)
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17:16:19PaulJamWere there any commits since 2007-09-30 20:25 CEST and now that could have affected the scrolling/lineselector behaviour? the behaviour i described earlier does not happen in the latest uisimulator from rashers page.
17:16:48bluebrotherPaulJam: the gradient selector?
17:18:03PaulJambluebrother: no, when i use gradient selector it stays while scrolling
17:18:45kugelbluebrother: You've marked as related to, but actually, they are not related
17:18:52bluebrotherI meant the commit of the gradient selector. Or is that included since longer?
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17:19:14kugelthe calender.c in the button map is very different to the one in the rockcalenar patch
17:20:04PaulJambluebrother: ah, the gradient lineselector was committed earlier.
17:20:38bluebrotherkugel: ah, correct. But it was even you who fooled me (with your last comment ont FS #7076) :P
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17:20:59kugeli just asked...
17:21:09kugeli wasnt sure either
17:21:30bluebrotherwell, I did a quick look and found them to be related. Doing so I mixed up calendar and rockcalendar ...
17:21:50bluebrotheranyway, I simply removed the relation. Issue closed :)
17:22:23PaulJamwell, i guess i should just compile a sim from the latest sources and see if i can reproduce it there instad of bothering you.
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17:55:03pondlifeIf I add new routines to the plugin API, can I insert them in the middle of the struct, or do they have to be appended?
17:55:26pondlifeOr rather, if I add them at the end, can I leave the version the same?
17:55:33n1spondlife: if you bump min api version you can put them anywhere
17:55:38Domonokyi think if you insert in the middle you have to bump the api version..
17:55:51pondlifeOK, but can I avoid that if I append?
17:56:02peturI'd rather have them sorted together than appended
17:56:02n1syou still have to bump the version if you put them at the end but not the MIN version
17:56:02Domonokyjep, i thinks so..
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17:56:12pondlifeThere's a load of functions remaining under a comment " /* new stuff at the end, sort into place next time the API gets incompatible */"
17:56:21peturit's not that we have many compiled plugins by 3rd party ;)
17:56:34pondlifen1s: Thanks, that's the answer I was after
17:58:41GodEater_is that in the wiki somewhere - it's very useful info
17:59:05pondlifeActually, there's a comment in the code that I've just spotted... :/
17:59:21pondlifeSorry to wake everyone up
17:59:46GodEater_curse you
17:59:49*GodEater_ shakes a fist
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18:11:13theseal_bluebrother: still here?
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18:27:42ePri would like to know if rockbox work with sansa e260 ?
18:27:50Nico_PePr: it does
18:28:01Nico_Pas says the homepage
18:28:16ePrthe homepage say e200 series
18:28:19ePri m a newbie
18:28:24ePrso i wasn t sure :p
18:28:55ePrbtw thx for the answer
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18:29:31Nico_Pyou're welcome
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18:53:05pondlifeHi Nico_P
18:53:14pondlifeAny progress on playback?
18:53:24Nico_Pyes, seen my wiki page update ?
18:53:34Nico_PI got reliable playback on the first track
18:53:46pondlifeIncluding seeking?
18:53:48Nico_PI'm working on buffering the next tracks right now
18:54:03Nico_Pprobably not rebuffering but seeking is ok
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18:54:22pondlifeI thought you'd got the buffering working ok in isolation.
18:54:48pondlifeSo that should be relatively easy? :)
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18:55:30Nico_Pyeah it works but when I tried making the SYS_TIMEOUT event do Q_AUDIO_FILL_BUFFER instead of sleeping, I got an infinite loop of buffering attempts
18:55:43Nico_Pmainly because I never set filling = false, which I found just now
18:56:06pondlifeHmm, in playback.c ?
18:56:26pondlifeShouldn't that just be sleeping and let buffering.c do it's magic?
18:57:09Nico_Pwell actually now filling the buffer on the playback.c side is simply calling bufopne
18:57:43pondlifeSo playback.c is doing a set of bufopens, but no reading... ok!
18:57:53Nico_Pyes, that's it
18:58:33pondlifeWe have a nice use case appeared in FlySpray recently...
18:59:22Nico_Pthe way I see it, the audi thread will do bufopen and bufclose calls, the codec thread will do the bufadvance and bufseek calls through the callbacks in playback.c, and the buffering thread will take care of buffering data to the disk
18:59:50*Nico_P takes note
19:00:15pondlifeSomething to try (if you don't mind jogging with your HDD based player)
19:00:21|Rain|do codecs run in their own thread?
19:00:47Nico_Ppondlife: err, not sure I'll do that
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19:00:51pixelmapondlife: could the "voice breaks mpegplayer" bug report be closed now? (Haven't tried myself yet...)
19:00:52Nico_Psounds like a pretty bad idea
19:01:06jhMikeSpixelma: I think so
19:01:13pondlifepixelma: Will test now...
19:01:27pondlifejhMikeS: You saw I updated the plugin API...?
19:01:28jhMikeSpixelma: btw, I saw your message. Does the recording actually come out ok on c200?
19:01:43Nico_PjhMikeS, pondlife: shouldn't things like bufopen and bufclose be accessible only to one thread at a time ?
19:02:01Nico_Pactually, maybe all buffering API calls
19:02:08pondlifeBuffering.c must handle that.
19:02:11jhMikeSNico_P: perhaps, but if not, will it be safe and simple to make it work?
19:02:33Nico_PjhMikeS: what do you mean by "make it work" ?
19:02:36jhMikeSpondlife: no, haven't checked anything yet
19:02:37 Quit amiconn (Nick collision from services.)
19:02:44pondlifeThat's normally why there's a queue between the API and the actual "doing" code...
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19:02:44pixelmajhMikeS: yes, the recording sounds fine - the noise is just there while monitoring. Today I tried recording from radio, it was also present there but not so loud
19:03:04pixelmaagain - while monitoring
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19:03:09jhMikeSNico_P: Well, if we do switch the threads that uses the buffer calls
19:03:49Nico_PI'm not sure what would happen if two threads decide to use bufopen at the same time
19:03:55jhMikeSpixelma: kind of screechy-ish? I think I've heard what your talking about. It takes removing the cache flushing to hear it on e200
19:04:28pondlifeNico_P: That will need addressing, I'm afraid.
19:04:32***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
19:04:50pixelmahnn... would describe it more as crackling or so. And it really makes me wonder that it is only in one channel...
19:04:51Nico_PjhMikeS: actually bufopen doesn't yield, so with cooperative it's probably OK, but I don't really want to rely on that
19:05:08Nico_Ppondlife: yes, probably
19:05:09jhMikeSNico_P: if it's not guarded and yields then it probably will bite it. might not be important now but as long as thing is all well factored it should be simple to accomodate it.
19:05:47pondlifeAt least a playback problem has become a buffering problem (which should be easier to resolve)..
19:05:51Nico_PjhMikeS: for now there shouldn't be any two threads asking for the same thing anyway
19:06:13Nico_Pit's just that the API may be used for other things later
19:06:30jhMikeSNico_P: if we support video in the core...perhaps. but then a thread could mediate that between to other internal to a video codec.
19:07:06Nico_Pyeah... and would a queue be a good idea ? I'm not really convinced but maybe
19:07:18Nico_Pat one point I thought of it then dropped it
19:07:55jhMikeSIt could be a codec decision really instead of a buffer one
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19:08:25Nico_Pwhat do you mean ?
19:08:35jhMikeSI think the buffer should me minimal and avoid sync objects where possible
19:08:43Nico_PI agre
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19:09:39jhMikeSSome video codec that has an audio and video thread could mediate the two (or more) streams on the codec thread (which acts like the buffering in mpegplayer currently)
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19:10:41jhMikeSThe codec could mutex the buffer access itself in other words.
19:10:45pondlifepixelma: Mpegplayer seems fine with voice now, ok for you too?
19:11:03Nico_PjhMikeS: yeah I see, I think that's probably better indeed
19:11:36pondlifeYes, regard the buffering API as a resource.
19:12:27pixelmapondlife: will try now
19:12:44pondlifeOK, I just closed the bug on FS... hope it's good :)
19:12:45jhMikeSI don't think multithread codecs would be super common anyway. Maybe SPC or some other really super-heavy that could split stuff between COP and CPU or something. I already have done that with the SPC codec as an experiment.
19:13:34|Rain|the midi app is pretty heavy, should it ever turn into a codec
19:14:16jhMikeSI wonder if that could run half the voices on COP, half on CPU and mix after.
19:16:18pixelmapondlife, jhMikeS: yes works fine now
19:16:35pondlifeGood, 'tis closed!
19:17:10jhMikeSpondlife: why didn't you just change mpegplayer and doom while you were at it?
19:17:22pondlifeI did do mpegplayer, but not doom
19:17:32pondlifeI'll let you do doom.
19:18:21*pixelma wonders why the build system did not pick up her commit for a rebuild round but it already is on the frontpage...
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19:19:07*jhMikeS has seen that sometimes. It might start a bit late.
19:19:43pixelmaalready waited for quite a while
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19:20:30jhMikeSmaybe the next one will kick it off?
19:22:21pixelmayeah, hope so. We'll see who gets the points :P
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19:23:29pixelma(though I don't expect problems)
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19:24:39*jhMikeS was just going to ask pondlife to fixup doom and maybe get some points :p
19:25:53*jhMikeS checks his pll abuse plugin with SVN on H10...let's see if it's really stable
19:28:11pixelmahmm... maybe it's because my local tree was one revision "behind" (not including pondlife's latest changes)?
19:28:41jhMikeSpixelma: it should warn then if there a revision conflict on something. it's happened to me.
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19:29:26jhMikeSactually, it doesn't warn. it abort the commit entirely
19:29:28pixelmayeah, think I had seen that too but it didn't warn me...
19:29:56pixelmaI meant, I had seen that in other occasions but not today
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19:34:35jhMikeShmmm...pll abuse has made it to 12000 boost/unboosts in a row on H10. something must be wrong here. :p
19:35:15n1s|Rain|: if you want to use the midi plugin, i have a hack that should speed it up quite significantly for the price of somewhat flatter sound
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19:35:59jhMikeSoops. bombed 14260. I gave up ~40000 on e200
19:36:34jhMikeSthere's screen corruption
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19:41:33n1sshould mutiplication of a short with an int be slower or faster than int * int on any of our targets?
19:43:48jhMikeSIs this in C?
19:44:02 Quit PaulJam_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) really don't have control over early termination then.
19:45:18jhMikeSthey all use 32-bit registers for the instructions so it will probably be slower. now, if you're loading values from memory, and zero or sign-extended short to 32-bits will be faster.
19:46:18Domonokydo all of our targets have multiplication hardware ?, because if you do it in software (additions and shifts) short* int should be faster..
19:46:31n1sit's a return value from a function that is cashed and multiplied twice per voice per sample
19:47:02n1sso that would be a whooping 88200 multiplications per second on pp targets :-)
19:47:12jhMikeSshift+add would only really be faster on ARM because of the shifter operand. Coldfire has a fast multiplier.
19:47:45jhMikeSn1s: is the mul by constant values?
19:48:54n1swait I'm lying I forgot a factor 23 in that number, it should be 2028600
19:49:41jhMikeSshift+add/sub needs a lot of hand tweeking and even big numbers might be doable in a few instructions...if you can find the optimal sequence
19:50:21|Rain|n1s: what sor tof hack?
19:50:48amiconnshort * int, short + int or anything like that is always slower on arm than int * int, int + int etc
19:51:37n1s|Rain|: removing the multiplications I just told jhMikeS about, in synth.h in synthSample, remove the shifst and multiplications with chPanRight and chPanLeft
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19:51:40jhMikeSn1s: sounds like an emac assembly task for coldfire. ARM just bites it for multiplying.
19:52:43|Rain|I think it'd be interesting to see how much that helps
19:52:50n1sjhMikeS: jhMikeS coldfire does pretty well anyway, of course it could be a _lot_faster still but it keeps up, the pp is far behind
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19:53:39n1s|Rain|: it will remove any panning in the music so it will sound a bit flat in tracks that has a lot of that
19:53:40jhMikeSI would expect cf to do quite well
19:54:07jhMikeSIt does use the emac unit for standard muls but you don't get the 1-cycles throughput
19:54:36|Rain|n1s: ALL panning and not just dynamic changes? meh. could be worse, though...
19:54:59n1sI mean individual voice panning
19:55:00jhMikeSn1s: which file has that function?
19:55:13n1sjhMikeS: synth.h
19:55:21jhMikeScode in the *.h?
19:55:28n1sstatic inline
19:55:55|Rain|n1s: ah, so channel panning will still be fine? are you just talking about panning envelopes in the patches (if patches even support that?)
19:56:19n1si have hoisted all the shifts out of the loop and do them after locally, that's slightly faster
19:56:35jhMikeSoy, that's just begging for emac
19:56:40n1s|Rain|: I thinks so, not too familiar with midi lingo
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19:58:36|Rain|I haven't looked at the source yet, and I think I'm too tired right now to comprehend it anyway, but I can certainly gawk at/try patches
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20:02:01jhMikeSn1s: I find that odd because ARM can do add r0, r0, r1, asl #7 and such. it should be free there.
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20:02:35n1sjhMikeS: ah, I mean on coldfire, don't have an arm to test with
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20:04:28jhMikeSI'd dump the short ints
20:05:07jhMikeSof course sign extension is fast on cf. arm has no such instruction.
20:06:31n1sso, bottom line, I should get an arm target to test on :-)
20:07:19jhMikeSalways a good policy. using ints would still be faster in any case if memory loads/stores aren't involved.
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20:35:34jhMikeShmmm...setting the mmap registers differently on pp has a profound stability effect on the pll switching
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20:40:08preglowi'm starting to think they won't dole out specs because of their lousy designed hardware
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20:43:18jhMikeSpreglow: I was thinking along similar lines. All the later chips are just bugfixes.
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20:43:44pixieHmf, crud. I finally got my new ipod working with gtkpod, but my ipod can't find the music I load into it. I can see it's there when I mount the ipod etc, but when I try to find it on the iPod itself, it can't see it (Not actually using rockbox on it yet though)
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20:44:16Lloreanpixie: Considering this is #Rockbox, I don't see that any of that's relevant here then.
20:44:18jhMikeSI mean, what I'm doing basically amounts to a rearrangement an not really a reimplementation and yet rockbox becomes unstable for no apparent reason.
20:44:27pixieLlorean: I know, but I couldn't find any other channel.
20:44:33pixieLlorean: and whenever I ask stuff here, people usually know :P
20:44:43jhMikeSyou don't even need any audio use involved and it changes. all inits are identical.
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20:44:50rasherpixie: I believe there's a gtkpod channel...
20:44:58Lloreanpixie: This channel has guidelines, please respect them.
20:44:59preglowlet's just drop support for the buggers!
20:45:11Lars_GSigh once again I'm doubting between buying next an s280 or a 8Gb iPod nano first generation on ebay
20:45:16rasherpixie: on OFTC.
20:45:16jhMikeSyeah, I wish those stupid pp5020's would just go away actually
20:45:28Lars_GThe s280 has more atractives, specially if rockbox someday supports multiple core.
20:45:38Lars_Gbut, I would lose use of all the iPod bases I have around the house now.
20:45:53Lars_Gand I can't sell/throw them away because the SO has an iPod and will continue to use it
20:46:02jhMikeSLars_G: rockbox doesn't fully have a multicore kernel because _one_ processor model is holding it all up
20:46:05pixieLlorean: Please remove the stick from your ass. It was just a question.
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20:46:28Lloreanpixie: Please show a little maturity, and respect channel guidelines
20:46:31LloreanWe didn't post them for fun.
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20:46:44pixieLlorean: Please get off your high and mighty horse. This is IRC.
20:46:51jhMikeSLlorean: are you sure? it's fun to watch them be enforced :)
20:47:01GRaTTping rasher
20:47:09rasherYes, hello?
20:47:11Lars_GjhMikeS: What do you mean? that it's being held in general to be compatible with an older player, that the main cpu in multicores is holding it back, or that the specs on the second core are so closed we got nothing to work with?
20:47:14Lloreanpixie: This is also a logged and moderated channel. "This is IRC" isn't a magic excuse to do whatever you want.
20:47:15pixieLlorean: I asked a question kindly, and said I knew it wasn't a part of channel guidelines, but asked if someone kindly would help me anyway. Now stfu and get aids.
20:47:24GRaTTis there a reason the matrix screen saver was droped
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20:47:55rasherGRaTT: I never finished the port of it, and got frustrated because it had a bug that I couldn't make out.
20:47:57Lloreanpixie: Why not go to #IpodLinux and ask, or any of the other thousand channels it's the wrong place for? Seriously, it's not too hard to say "Yes, I know you have rules, sorry, I'll follow them." Try that next time.
20:48:02GRaTTI have fixed the missing characters. at least the symptom
20:48:13Lars_GWhoever came with the idea of splitting the plugin rocks in sections on the main menu... thank you, I love you
20:48:18jhMikeSLars_G: it's because pp5020 1) has problems with one instruction in particular (swp[b]) and becomes unstable for no apparent reason when rearranging things.
20:48:26Lars_Git was so back then that i don't want to look thorough all the logs to see who it was.
20:48:38Lars_GjhMikeS: how odd.
20:48:44pixieLlorean: I did say that, I did however kindly ask if anyone knew anyway. It's a simple question, not get a friggen life or aids and get off your high and mighty "oh irc is so important" horse, and stfu
20:48:44jhMikeSthe cores are both arm7tdmi
20:48:47Lars_GjhMikeS: is the sansa based on the pp too?
20:48:57pixieLlorean: for the love of fuck.
20:49:19rasherpixie: Please stop this pointless bickering.
20:49:23Lloreanpixie: If everyone came in here and asked off topic questions, it'd kinda flood the logs now wouldn't it. You aren't special. Everyone else follows the rules, feel welcome to get in line.
20:49:31pixieTell Llorean to stop his pointless bickering. I asked a simple question.
20:49:38jhMikeSLars_G: yes, but everything works as it should and it's totally stable with frequency scaling. 1) may be remedied because hardware sync primitives do exist
20:49:44pixieAnd people usually help me here. That's the only reason. Iknow it's not under the guidelines.
20:49:53pixieLlorean: It was a question, not a demand, dumbass.
20:50:00pixieLlorean: it is entirely optional to help me.
20:50:06pixieLlorean: I would have stfu'd ages ago if noone knew.
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20:50:15Lars_GjhMikeS: So the problem is on the iPods or archos (if they use PP) because they use firmware based syncing?
20:50:21pixieLlorean: Now leave me alone, tard.
20:50:27rasherGRaTT: oh? Well feel free to create a patch in flyspray - it's not that the plugin is unwanted or anything
20:50:43GRaTTrasher: my fix alters the patterns to a more random flow. I even added a password to exit.
20:50:52jhMikeSLars_G: just anything with pp5020. pp5021, 22, 24 are just peachy with dual core
20:50:59pixieSo does anyone know anything about rockbox and the newest ipods then?
20:50:59GRaTTthe FS was closed should I start a new one?
20:51:06pixieBecause not much seems to work with it so far
20:51:27LloreanIt's not going to happen unless some people who own the new iPods do a LOT of work
20:51:30rasherpixie: That's pretty much it. The hardware is locked down hard.
20:51:33Lloreanthe firmware's encrypted, and the hardware's entirely new.
20:51:39Lars_GjhMikeS: maybe a bug or design flaw that apple works around... why not push forward the non 5020 based players, and ifdef or similar the pp5020 ones to single core?
20:51:40pixieLlorean: It's already been cracked.
20:51:41jhMikeSeven if I get past the sync primitive thing, the memory rearrangement will probably blow it all up
20:51:44pixieLlorean: Ages ago.
20:51:49Lloreanpixie: No, the database was cracked.
20:51:53rasherpixie: no. That's the itunesdb, not the firmware.
20:51:57pixieOh right
20:52:07rasherWhich is entirely useless in Rockbox perspective
20:52:13*pixie nods
20:52:26LloreanBasically, the new iPods are an entirely new port, from scratch
20:52:56LloreanProbably about on par with the Zune for likelihood.
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20:53:07jhMikeSLars_G: we can use them dual core but in a limited way. mpegplayer does.
20:53:12rasherGRaTT: not sure I'd want the password prompt, but a fixed matrix demo would be nice
20:53:28Lars_GjhMikeS: Oh I didn't know mplayer already uses the second core. that is about all the use I see from it anyhow.
20:53:42scorche|workwhois pixie
20:53:48jhMikeSnah, there's lot's of use for playback
20:53:57Mode"#rockbox +o scorche|work " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
20:54:01Lars_GjhMikeS: Ah well.
20:54:14Mode"#rockbox +b %pixie!*@* " by scorche|work (n=8dc5049d@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
20:54:25Lars_GjhMikeS: since it's all rocks, can't we alter the plugins themselves to use the second core? without intervention from the kernel?
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20:54:33Lars_Gor it'd still be too much of a rearragement?
20:54:52jhMikeSLars_G: but then it's really just much harder to work with
20:55:08GRaTTrasher: the password was just something to play with. Like a screen lock. As I said I fixed the symptom only. It will play forever now, but locks up the sim at times.
20:55:19jhMikeSwhy should one stupid device keep everything from progressing if it can't be fixed?
20:55:43 Quit miepchen^schlaf (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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20:56:05Mode"#rockbox -b %pixie!*@* " by scorche|work (n=8dc5049d@rockbox/administrator/scorche)
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21:02:45*Nico_P has got buffering in advance working :)
21:02:55Nico_Ptrack transitions work quite nicely too
21:03:02Nico_Pseeking doesn't though
21:03:15rasherSounds like you are making nice progress
21:03:46Nico_Pyeah, I'm quite pleased, even though I lost a lot of time chasing a *stupid* bug
21:04:15hcsyou're lucky; the clever ones hide from you
21:04:28Nico_Pthis one was both clever and stupid
21:04:36***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
21:04:47Nico_Pit takes some cleverness to be that stupid
21:05:22Nico_Pand I've found no bugs in the buffering code so far
21:06:20 Quit spiorf (Remote closed the connection)
21:06:50 Join spiorf [0] (
21:07:04Nico_Pif there's anyone wanting to see the code (and maybe help !), it's available in my rockbox git repo
21:07:24jhMikeSNico_P: say that again? so all the bugs are in playback?
21:08:01Nico_PjhMikeS: I added most of the bugs myself :)
21:08:08 Join miepchen^schlaf [0] (
21:08:15jhMikeSah, just for fun :)
21:08:28Nico_Pyeah, I like a bit of challenge ;)
21:08:33 Join Beltz [0] (
21:10:24 Join ePr [0] (i=lovemeno@
21:10:50BeltzHey, I think I "broke" my Sansa e280 (8gb) by installing rockbox... Basically, I cannot dual boot, and USB doesn't work. So this seems to mean that I cannot add new songs (no usb), and that I cannot uninstall it (no usb)... Anyone has an idea what I should try?
21:12:43Mode"#rockbox -o scorche|work " by ChanServ (ChanServ@services.)
21:12:44ePrtry to unplug
21:12:50ePrthen use hold button
21:12:53ePrthen record
21:13:13ePradd mi4
21:13:16bluebrotherBeltz: check this page
21:13:59BeltzePr: Thanks, it's a nice start. I got USB access now.
21:14:08BeltzI'll look into the rest about mi4 and bluebrother's link. Thank you
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21:15:05 Join XavierGr [0] (
21:15:36ePrnp :)
21:16:33BeltzDo you think I messed up the installation, that something is just wrong with my e200, or is this that perhaps the 8gb one is unsupported as of yet?
21:16:47ePri dunno
21:17:03ePri ve got some probs to install rockbox on my e260
21:17:12ePrtill 2 hours
21:17:15ePr: /
21:17:22jhMikeSpreglow: I guess it's time to decode what the hell MrH is talking about. I suppose having a cached and uncached view of ram could be cool too.
21:17:30ePrseems e200 aren t stable
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21:17:48n1sBeltz: it's a known issue that dual boot doesn't work with some sansas, but we don't know why
21:18:14*jhMikeS thought the problem was discovered to be the SHDC support
21:18:31pixelmapeople in the forums reported that an older sansapatcher works for them
21:18:51n1saha, then we do know but no one has fixed it yet :-)
21:19:34jhMikeSit should be trivial to remove all traces of SD(HC) support from the bootloader...hours at most
21:20:08LloreanI thought there were two problems.
21:20:27jhMikeSLlorean: I never heard about any second. What did you hear?
21:20:29BeltzI take it drivers and such have to be written in c or assembly? My java skills probably wouldn't be of any help :P
21:20:31LloreanBecause weren't some people reporting that Sansapatcher 0.2 with SVN bootloaders worked?
21:20:59jhMikeSWell, now that's a fancy problem that I wasn't aware of.
21:21:05LloreanMaybe I'm wrong.
21:21:16ePrhow to get in msc mode ?
21:21:19ePrwith sansa
21:21:27n1sBeltz: if you already know one language, it shouldn' tbe too hard to learn another one ;-)
21:21:44jhMikeSePr: All in the wiki on recovery
21:21:47LloreanjhMikeS: For example, it's entirely possible they used the 0.2 sansapatcher and didn't actually install the newer bootloader
21:22:19pixelmaePr: isn't there a setting for it in the original firmware?
21:22:22Beltzn1s: Not if this is in assembly :P
21:22:39jhMikeSLlorean: very well could be that
21:22:41n1sBeltz: very little of rockbox is written in assembly
21:23:06BeltzThank you very much guys, I seem to have managed to reinstall the original bootloader or whatever.
21:23:10n1sonly select performance critical and very low level things are
21:23:34LloreanjhMikeS: I guess the best bet would be clear SDHC out of the bootloader, wonder why "outta" is in the dictionary for my spellchecker, and then see if anyone reports the problems still happening with a new sansapatcher with the cleaned bootloader, 'eh?
21:23:35BeltzAre most electronics coded in c or can they easily make it work with higher level languages?
21:24:03ePryea it s on the original one i need to know
21:24:23jhMikeSBeltz: the pp OF is a good bit c++ and com.
21:24:45ePr@pixelma yea it s on the original one i need to know
21:25:09 Quit XavierGr_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:25:11 Quit ilgufo ("So Long, and Thanks For All the Fish -")
21:26:19n1sePr: it's a setting somewhere
21:26:21pixelmaePr: sorry, don't understand your question. I don't have an e200 but on the c200 there was a setting (I believe in system/usb connection or the like) which I had to check first to get to msc mode
21:26:31jhMikeSLlorean: I guess I could kill all the multivolume support there. Mine shows symptoms where the OF runs really slow but does load.
21:27:17*jhMikeS will do a quick patchup with v0.2 and see if that stops.
21:27:40LloreanDo we currently support loading Rockbox from a MicroSD?
21:28:01jhMikeSnot by default but I think JdGordon put something in there to do it if enabled
21:29:10LloreanI'm trying to decide if there's a decent use for that or not, but I think just dropping multivolume is probably fine.
21:29:47 Part Beltz
21:30:50pixelmayou could always copy the .rockbox from your microSD to the internal volume later ;)
21:30:51jhMikeSYeah, complicated things in the bootloader are annoying. That's one thing I'll totally agree on KISS.
21:31:16LloreanWell, I can't see it as being useful for anyone other than testing multiple builds or something, and ROLO works for that.
21:31:44rasherROLO doesn't address that you'll be using the same .rockbox
21:31:46 Join Lear [0] (i=chatzill@rockbox/developer/lear)
21:32:01Lloreanrasher: Having the bootloader load the MI4 from the MicroSD doesn't make the main Rockbox binary read from it too, either.
21:32:14pixelmamaybe only avoiding the OF's annoying database refresh...
21:32:16rasherI figured it might look for .rockbox on the same volume
21:33:01jhMikeSno internal paths specify the SD at all
21:38:10jhMikeShmm...I think slowess of the OF came from having alot more files on that I did before. It seems it might affect it outside database refresh.
21:38:25 Quit ePr ()
21:40:57Nico_Pdoes anyone know a bit of SDL programming ?... I'd like to know whether it would be possible to add a separate window to the sim
21:41:18jhMikeSI think so
21:41:49Nico_PI'd like to have a window displaying buffer status
21:42:21Nico_Pa debug screen would work but it would be less practical and probably less flexible
21:43:47|Rain|sdl doesn't support multiple windows, but you can make a separate window with the platform toolkit or fake subwindows in your sdl window
21:44:31|Rain|(unless something has changed somewhat recently)
21:44:32 Quit hcs ("Leaving.")
21:45:21jhMikeSWhy not just do what is done for remotes
21:45:41Nico_Pyeah I probably ought to try that
21:46:01Nico_PI'll focus on bigger problems for now, but it would be nice to have the info handy for the fine tuning later
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22:15:37 Quit seablue ("life, death, life, death")
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22:20:16elcaseyI have a 5G 30GB iPod that I installed Rockbox on about a year ago. I can unzip the latest build and just copy the .rockbox file to the iPod since it already has the bootloader installed, right?
22:20:32elcaseyI don't care if I have to Restore it, I just don't wanna brick it]
22:20:36elcaseybrilliant, thanks :)
22:20:47IsolinearAs long as you're not worried about any settings...
22:20:50pixelmano, you probably need to update your bootloader as well
22:20:58parafinyou better update bootloader
22:21:12IsolinearOh shoot...
22:21:18*Isolinear just woke up...
22:21:43elcaseyshould I delete rockbox.ipod and .rockbox from the ipod or just overwrite them?
22:21:56pixelmabut that has become a lot easier - the installation instructions in the manual also mention how to update the bootloader as well
22:22:04elcaseyok, i didn't see an update section
22:22:12p3turelcasey: if there is a rockbox.ipod in the root, remove it
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22:23:27elcaseyok...i'm just start from scratch
22:23:32elcaseyjust gonna*
22:24:28 Quit petur ("still here...")
22:26:22 Nick p3tur is now known as petur (n=petur@rockbox/developer/petur)
22:26:32 Join Merthsoft [0] (n=Shaun@
22:26:41MerthsoftRockbox isn't compiling
22:27:13Merthsoftwm8731.c is throwing tons of errors at me
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22:27:21elcaseythat was easy enough...thanks, guys! :)
22:27:24 Part elcasey
22:27:40pixelmaMerthsoft: tried a "make clean" and reconfigure?
22:28:03Merthsofti will now
22:28:19Merthsoftjust type "make clean"?
22:28:24DefineBytewhat players does rbutil not fully detect?
22:28:41DefineByteJust iPod Video?
22:28:52pixelmaMerthsoft: yes
22:29:10 Quit XavierGr (Nick collision from services.)
22:29:10Merthsoftit says no rule for target "clean"
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22:29:17pixelmain your build directory
22:29:42Merthsofthaha, I' stupid. I though that's where I was
22:29:47|Rain|I think it'd be a good idea to add a "Queue file" option as a choice in the "Erase dynamic playlist?" screen... thoughts?
22:31:55 Quit Frazz ("Leaving")
22:33:22bluebrotherDefineByte: Rockbox Utility detects the Video 5.5G 60 GB / 80 GB as 30GB
22:33:43|Rain|it's not ideal since the rest of the options from the playlist menu could be preferred over 'queue', but to queue up a song to play immediately/next without nuking the current playlist requires too many steps
22:33:43DefineByteis that the only one?
22:33:57bluebrotherand there is currently no way to distinguish between X5 and X5V −− I haven't got replies on my request for providing the USB IDs
22:34:10DefineByteOkay, thanks.
22:34:13bluebrotherall other players should be detectable fine
22:34:23rasherbluebrother: can't you simply check the disc size for >30GB?
22:34:26pixelmabluebrother: is the rbutil binary in the wiki the latest?
22:34:36rasherOr is this in cases where you can't locate the ipod
22:34:38bluebrotherah, and there are issus with bootloader installation on vista
22:35:05bluebrotherpixelma: it's the latest released one. I have an updated binary build from svn on my personal web page
22:35:44bluebrotherrasher: detecting the Ipods is done with ipodpatcher. It could use the disc size for distinguishion, but iirc there were cases of 64MB players with a smaller drive
22:36:07pixelmaah hmm... because I tried the windows one there and it still couldn't autodetect my c200 - should it?
22:36:10 Quit Lars_G ("bang")
22:36:13rasherbluebrother: but getting it right 99.9% of the time would be preferable to never, surely?
22:36:33bluebrotherpixelma: no, iirc that wasn't able detecting the c200 correctly.
22:36:40pixelmaI see
22:37:17bluebrotherI wanted to make a new release of rbutil, but I also wanted to include the USB ID for the X5V −− and unfortunately I haven't got any responses to my request :(
22:37:39DefineByteany ETA (I know, I know) on the Vista problem being fixed? Should a warning be put in the manual?
22:38:08rasherbluebrother: just add a splash to the x5 build
22:38:12bluebrotherno, no ETA yet. I just managed to get a vista setup running. Boy, does vista look crappy with that "classic" theme
22:38:31DefineByteheh, I can imagine
22:38:41 Quit Buschel ()
22:38:49bluebrotherand it's dog slow in the virtual machine.
22:38:52DefineByteipodpatcher works in Vista though, right?
22:38:53preglowvista _is_ crappy
22:39:08Merthsoftpixelma: that worked, thanks
22:39:20bluebrotherit has some nice-looking stuff, but from my first impression: I don't want it.
22:39:22pixelmayou're welcome :)
22:39:54 Quit haemmy ()
22:40:00bluebrotherI _think_ ipodpatcher / sansapatcher works on vista. I wanted to try, but my setup failed to access the usb properly
22:40:01 Nick parafin is now known as parafin|away (i=parafin@
22:40:38preglown1s: really like this midi plug, don't you? :P
22:40:46DefineByteHmm, guess I shouldn't add a note if we don't _know_ it works.
22:41:16bluebrotherI added a "vista untested" note to the wiki.
22:41:33n1spreglow: i have some nice midi tunes :-) but also it was quite easy to make it faster until about now ;)
22:41:41bluebrotherregardless, installation itself (i.e. not bootloader installation) should work just fine as that doesn't need direct hardware access
22:42:02*pixelma just discovered an interesting effect on c200 - radio doesn't work correctly if you have screendump enabled...
22:42:07n1shaving it as a prioper codec will be sweet :-)
22:42:19 Quit RudMan (" HydraIRC -> <- Go on, try it!")
22:42:28DefineBytecan rbutil handle uninstalling manual installs?
22:43:17DefineBytei.e. deleting '.rockbox'. x)
22:43:42preglown1s: indeed, 'cuz it means you'll have solved the issues which make an xm/s3m codec problematic too :P
22:43:47bluebrothernot really −− only by uninstalling everything (i.e. unlinking .rockbox completely)
22:45:22n1spreglow: I have been thinking a little about it and the only problem i could come up with so far is that how does buffering know that it has enough space to load everything it needs? and if it can't know before it starts loading what should it do if it runs out?
22:47:26n1smaybe that is a question for Nico_P
22:48:39Nico_Pn1s: is that a general question or is it specifically about the buffering API I implemented ?
22:50:21Nico_Pwhen bufopen is called, the first thing it does is check the (file)size of what has been given to it. Depending on the type that has also been passed to it it will either fail if not enough space is available or allocate what it can, hoping to be able to complete later
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22:51:03Nico_P(I assumed the question was about the buffering API)
22:51:33n1sNico_P: it's in regard to loading non streaming formats such as midi or xm, those can't begin to play uless either all paches are loaded (midi) or they are decoded (xm)
22:52:21Nico_Pn1s: there's already a type for streaming files that makes bufopen return an error code if there isn't enough buffer space to load the whole file
22:52:54n1sthe current plan is to call some parsing function when these files need to be buffered which will do all the dirty work but predicting the resulting size of for example a decoded xm file can be difficult IIRC
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22:53:58Learwhat bits of an xm file needs decoding first? are parts compressed or something?
22:54:01n1sNico_P: for midis the file itself is usualy very small but the required patches are several megs so all of those need to fit too, but I guess I'll look into it more when mob is integrated :-)
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22:54:48n1sLear: iirc they acre compressed with some type of simple encoding
22:54:52Nico_Pn1s: it shouldn't be too hard to do... that's what the API was meant for
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22:55:11Nico_Pbut the playback code still needs *lots* of cleaning up
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22:55:48n1sNico_P: sounds good, I'll pester you about it when i get around to trying it ;)
22:55:53 Quit Merthsoft ("Leaving")
22:55:59Nico_Pok :)
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22:56:12bluebrotherah, reminds me: would we be allowed to distribute the patchset via the official download server?
22:56:51n1sbluebrother: according to the PluginMidiPlayer wiki page it's free for non-commercial use
22:56:58pixelmaxm and mod in general consist of short wav samples which are used as instruments if I'm not mistaken...
22:57:21bluebrotherhmm, so we should be able to do so? Putting it on the download server would make it possible to add patchset installation to rbutil
22:58:07Learpixelma: indeed, optionally with some simple effects applied on them.
23:00:02n1sbluebrother: IMHO it's not very useful until we can use it as a codec and perhaps play realtime on pp targets
23:00:40bluebrotherit's as useful as doom ;-)
23:01:23bluebrotherwell, not exactly. It's more useful than doom
23:02:15 Join Zagor [0] (
23:02:53n1sbluebrother: but it can only play one file at a time, it would be like doom would exit between every level
23:03:06DefineBytedoom teaches you how to shoot people
23:04:36DefineByteanyone have any parts of the manual that they think needs urgent attention?
23:04:38XavierGr_Slasheri: Ping
23:04:39***Saving seen data "./dancer.seen"
23:04:48 Nick XavierGr_ is now known as XavierGr (
23:04:52bluebrotherDefineByte: have you checked the ManualTodo wiki page?
23:05:15DefineByteyes, yes I have /runs to wiki.
23:06:11n1sDefineByte: the "working with playlists" chapter would get my vote, it's very much core functionality of rockbox and most users seem to be very confused by it, or maybe they just don't read...
23:06:15 Quit nicktastic ("Leaving")
23:07:18DefineByteI'll probably look at playlists after I've finished tidying up the installation section then.
23:08:26 Quit Zagor ("Client exiting")
23:08:50scorche|work /msg scorche
23:09:03*scorche|work kicks CGI:IRC
23:09:28amiconnjhMikeS: Iiuc i2s_scale_attn_level() is needed for e200 due to the dma lcd update?
23:10:39n1sLear: I found a spec paper for XM files if you are interested
23:12:43amiconnjhMikeS: I wonder why it's enabled for c200. Seems completely unnecessary to me
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23:16:39 Quit Domonoky (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
23:18:46Learn1s: thanks, but no thanks. :)
23:21:00 Quit jhulst (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
23:21:27 Quit Lear ("ChatZilla [Firefox]")
23:22:51n1sah, found it "Regular samples are stored as either 8- or 16-bit signed delta values. The size of the sample buffer in bytes is given in the [Sample header].[Sample length] field. To convert to real data:"
23:24:42 Quit bluebrother ("reboot")
23:25:11n1spreglow: seems like an xm decoder could be lads of fun, there is apparently files using adpcm for the samples and some using vorbis :-)
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23:55:10preglownot in spec at least
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23:57:07fernandobrhi ppl

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